The TML is made possible by facilities provided by the University of
Western Ontario. All opinions and materials below are the responsibility
of the originator.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 511  6201 18-Oct-1993 Diane Kelly      Terra in the New Era << Concerning Terr
 511  6202 18-Oct-1993 "BORIS ZAIDFELD  Belt Strike Adventures << Hail Travelle
 511  6203 19-Oct-1993 Jo Jaquinta      Weisman in the Shower <<  Roger Moore s
 511  6204 19-Oct-1993 James Kundert    Sword Worlders Psi << The Sword Worlder
 511  6205 20-Oct-1993 Jo Jaquinta      Three Dimensional Traveller <<  One min
 511  6206 20-Oct-1993 Bertil Jonell    Beltstrike <<   Yup, I did a quick conv
 511  6207 20-Oct-1993 Mike Basinger    subsector grid sheet in pict format <<
 511  6208 21-Oct-1993 Rupert G. Goldi  Re:  Terra in the New Era << > Jim Camb
 511  6209 20-Oct-1993 "BORIS ZAIDFELD  Belt Strike -> TNE System << Bertil Jon
 511  6210 20-Oct-1993 gwh@lurnix.COM   Re: 3D traveller << Doing Traveller in
 511  6211 21-Oct-1993 Greg Hines       Longbow? << Greetings, I just picked up
 511  6212 21-Oct-1993 Peter H. Brento  Three-D Traveller << Jo Jaquinta writes
 511  6213 21-Oct-1993 Peter H. Brento  large habitats << A project I am just b
 511  6214 21-Oct-1993 Derek Wildstar   Help with FF&S Draft << GDW has sent me
 511  6215 21-Oct-1993 Edward Swatsche  3d space << > From: Jo Jaquinta <jaymin
 511  6216 22-Oct-1993 Richard Johnson  3D Universe? << I encourage everyone wh
 511  6217 22-Oct-1993 "John C. Orthoe  Re: 3D traveller  << Mapping traveller
 511  6218 22-Oct-1993 JOT@CU.NIH.GOV   Re:  TML nightly:  Msgs 6208-6215 V63#3
 511  6219 22-Oct-1993 Greg Hines       Longbow..more questions << I looked at
 511  6220 22-Oct-1993 Martin Snow      3D Traveller << It may appear that dist
 511  6221 22-Oct-1993 Will Hartung -   Re: 3D Space << > From: gwh@lurnix.COM

------------------------------

Bundle: 511
Archive-Message-Number: 6201
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 17:07:09 -0400
From: dkelly@acpub.duke.edu (Diane Kelly)
Subject: Terra in the New Era

Concerning Terra in the New Era (hey, it rhymes!):

	Earth probably weathered the Collapse and the Virus better than just
about any other world.  Consider:  Earth is the only planet in the Galaxy
where humans can survive with absolutely NO artificial help.  Even Vland had
to have that weird food-preparation guild to make the plant life edible.  On
Earth you can eat stuff right out of the ground.  With primitive TL 6-7
agriculture, it can support five billion people.
	And Earth has an incredible amount of low-tech infrastructure already
in place.  Surface railroads dating back thousands of years; vast highway
systems for groundcar traffic; alternating-current power grids; copper-cable
voice phone networks.  By way of illustration, the city of Rome in the 1990s
still uses some of the aqueducts built by the Roman Empire, and in New Mexico
farmers still use irrigation systems built before Columbus reached the New
World.
	Quite a lot of obsolete technology would still exist in historical
preserves, since history/tourism was probably a big industry on Terra before
the Collapse.  The facilities at places like the Krupp Steel Museum, or
Silicon Valley National Park, or the Baikonur Cosmodrome Living History Center
would be very useful when all the high-tech gadgetry goes blooey.
	Terra's location is also a bonus.  All of the Solomani worlds would be
separated from the Virus by a belt of devastated systems where the Sols and the
Imperium were fighting.  The Solomani planets may have had some advance warning
of the Virus, and could take steps to protect themselves from its worst
effects -- no grav city crashes, or fusion power plant explosions, or planetary
defense weapons going berserk.
	It's quite likely that Terra is the capital of a rather large Pocket
Empire, possibly claiming to be the one-and-only Solomani Confederation. Their
attitudes would be interesting; one might imagine a "back to the soil"
movement railing against high technology.  Since the Solomani were always into
biotechnology and genetic engineering, they might use lots of biotech-based
equipment in place of computers.

Jim Cambias
Who Suspects Lucan was a K'kree Agent
Misusing His Wife's Internet Account
At Duke Bio

------------------------------

Bundle: 511
Archive-Message-Number: 6202
Date: 	Mon, 18 Oct 1993 22:40:12 -0400
From: "BORIS ZAIDFELD" <cs911408@ariel.cs.yorku.ca>
Subject: Belt Strike Adventures


Hail Travellers..

I just gotthe boxed set of _BELT STRIKE_, and i was wandering if anyone out there has converted the game to TNE time..
also, if any of you have any ideas for an adventure set in BELT STRIKE , send it over.. :-)

One more thing, if any of you _experinced_ travellers that played Belt strike would want to comment about the game,like
problems
that you encounter while playing.. let me (or if any one else interstered, post to the TML).

Thanks alot..

	-Shalom Zaidfeld
	-from the new generation of travellers :-)

------------------------------

Bundle: 511
Archive-Message-Number: 6203
From: Jo Jaquinta <jaymin@maths.tcd.ie>
Subject: Weisman in the Shower
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 8:53:42 BST

	Roger Moore says in his editorial about GenCon in October's Dragon:

"... and Loren Wiseman of GDW reminisced about the time he and a camera crew
filmed a lady in her shower at 2 A.M. as part of a game advertisment
(right -- anything you say, Loren)."

	So, Loren. You secret is out. Care to comment? Was this just bullshit
like Moore suspects or is it a dark conspiracy?

			Jo Grant

------------------------------

Bundle: 511
Archive-Message-Number: 6204
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 21:20:06 PDT
From: James Kundert <james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>
Subject: Sword Worlders Psi

The Sword Worlders see psionics as "not manly", so only these not worried
about a manly image will use psi.  Thus, most SW psis are women...

James Kundert <james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>

There was a young lady named Bright,
Whose speed was much faster, much faster than Light.
She departed one day in a relative way,
And returned on the previous Night.
   --Albert & the Heart of Gold

------------------------------

Bundle: 511
Archive-Message-Number: 6205
From: Jo Jaquinta <jaymin@maths.tcd.ie>
Subject: Three Dimensional Traveller
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 8:46:48 BST

	One minor bitch I've always had about Traveller (Classic,
Mega or New Era) what that space is two-dimensional. You can lay out
the map of the Spinward Marches flat on your table. They don't
even try to rationalise it anywhere. (The best rationalisation I've
heard is that the 2D map represents what is close to what in jump-space
and does not necessarily relate to real-space)
	Part of my motivation for doing the Sysgen software was so
that I could have a 3D universe without losing all that detail on
those maps. I've been running Traveller in a 3D universe (off an on)
for about 4 years now. I thought I might make a few observations.

	_Space is big_ Really big. A small 10x10x10 parsec cube,
what I had envisaged as a sub-sector, is really only comprable with
a sector. Simple maths shows there are 1280 hexes in your standard
2D 32x40 sector and 1000 in a 10x10x10 cube. In all that gaming they
have never left that area.
	Yes, _borders are close_. If you are sitting in the centre
of a 2D sector you have to jump at least 16 parsecs to get out of
the sector. Yet, in a 3D "sector" you are only 5 parsecs from the
border. A jump-6 ship would make it to the edge.
	_There is much more choice_ In a 2D universe the standard
Jump-2 freighter has a choice of 18 destinations. In a 3D universe
this leaps to 32. Jump-1 remains at 6, but Jump-3 and higher escalate
surprisingly. So when you are selecting profitable points you have
more to choose from.
	_Almost anywhere is just a few jumps away_ Because of the above
the number of planets within a few jumps is very, very, large. My players
wanted to find a tech level 10, Starport A world that was likely to
have bulk freighters in standard production. Calling on my program it
produced 27 systems within a 4 parsec radius cube!
	_Navigation isn't that bad_ The most common objection I have
heard is that it is difficult to think in 3D and mapping is a bitch.
Once we had done out a little cubic diagram of what range their ship
had the players had no problem at all working out where they could
jump. To my annoyance they never use the on-line computer map I wrote
for them but are quite happy with their 5 page printout of the sector.

	We don't do normal ship movement in 3D. In fact, being largly
a trader type campaign we don't do ship movement much at all.
	I don't know how a 3D universe might be on a strateigic level.
It would be *really* interesting to see a TCS game run in a 3D space.
Any takers?
				Jo Grant

------------------------------

Bundle: 511
Archive-Message-Number: 6206
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Beltstrike
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1993 09:29:49 +0100 (MET)

  Yup, I did a quick conversion of the mechanics behind belting to TML,
although it is on 'real nonelectronic paper'. I could dig it out if it
is sufficient interest?

- -bertil-
- --
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Bundle: 511
Archive-Message-Number: 6207
From: Mike Basinger <dbasinge@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: subsector grid sheet in pict format
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1993 13:47:13 -0500 (EST)

I have created a Subsector grid sheet in a PICT format. Would I
violate any copyrights if I posted it to the Traveller ftp site
(freely, no charge). I was wondering since some type of subsector grid
sheet will be probably in the player forms pact when it is released.

Thanks for any info,
mike
- --
D. Michael Basinger: 	Not speaking for Indiana University
			dbasinge@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu
			dbasinge@arapahoe.ucs.indiana.edu (NeXT Mail)

------------------------------

Bundle: 511
Archive-Message-Number: 6208
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 13:28:55 +1000
From: Rupert G. Goldie <rgg@aaii.oz.au>
Subject: Re:  Terra in the New Era


> Jim Cambias
> Who Suspects Lucan was a K'kree Agent
> Misusing His Wife's Internet Account
> At Duke Bio
>

I don't know about anyone else, but this struck me as pretty funny in a
bizarre kind of way. At least we know where Lucan developed the Virus now 8-)


Rupert
- --
Rupert G. Goldie, Research Scientist                rgg@aaii.oz.au
Australian Artificial Intelligence Institute
/\/\|| 1 Grattan Street, Melbourne, Australia

------------------------------

Bundle: 511
Archive-Message-Number: 6209
Date: 	Wed, 20 Oct 1993 23:57:16 -0400
From: "BORIS ZAIDFELD" <cs911408@ariel.cs.yorku.ca>
Subject: Belt Strike -> TNE System


Bertil Jonell said:

>  Yup, I did a quick conversion of the mechanics behind belting to TML,
>although it is on 'real nonelectronic paper'. I could dig it out if it
>is sufficient interest?

Please post the information.  I want to use TNE and run Belt
Strike, and that info. would help me a lot.

Just a few question:

Did you run the Hard Times and the virus on the Belt?
What about CT - to TNE tasks.. How did you change it?..

> -bertil-

        Regards,

                -Shalom Zaidfeld

------------------------------

Bundle: 511
Archive-Message-Number: 6210
Subject: Re: 3D traveller
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 21:55:57 -0700
From: gwh@lurnix.COM


Doing Traveller in 3D sounds attractive until you have to work
out some mechanics for it... then your brain starts to hurt.

You _can_ do it; I'm doing it right now for an alternate
setting I'm toying with, though I may give up in the end
and abstract things quite a bit.  One problem is that to
map out a subsector-sized chunk, you need to use the
sector-sized map squares, which hurts after a little while.
They're hard to read and work with, and harder to draw in
the useful info (base, starport, GG presence, etc).
It also is hard to fit a whole "subsector" (being defined
as roughly the boundaries of one jump radius) on one
piece of paper in any case.  This really hurts more than
the small squares do; you lose the forest for the trees
in your flurry of pages of map.

This is one of the places where realism may not be a good
idea... it usually slows down managing the game without
introducing that much more advantage in the gaming situation.
I usually avoid such complications barring really good reason
to keep it that way.

- -george william herbert



------------------------------

Bundle: 511
Archive-Message-Number: 6211
Date: 	Thu, 21 Oct 1993 10:30:59 -0400
From: Greg Hines <BAD1066@VM1.ucc.okstate.edu>
Subject:      Longbow?

Greetings, I just picked up Survival Margin (haven't got T:TNE yet) and in
reading I came across a question that I wonered if anyone had more info on.
Early in the book there is a eyes only message for Strephon that indicates
2 research stations have been destroyed by "something" and that this "some-
thing" would arrive at Core (I belive) in 90 years (2 years after the start
of the new era.) Later in the book, In Norris' reply to Strephon, he thanks him
for the Jumpstart codes and info on Longbow. Then he states "forewarned is
forarmed" He also wonders if the Zho's (i just can't bring myself to like
them, guess after fighting them all those years...) have something to do with
this threat, or are just victims also. Based on this and the fact that Longbow
was a long distance commo device it seems that this project rang the doorbell
of somebody/thing that had best not been disturbed and now its coming. I also
think that the Zho core expeditions might have already run into this.

Of course I could just be incredibly paranoid since in an Old CT campaign we
spent alot of time fighting the big C and his minions that would not die (
well, the little ones die when you hit them with enough FGMP-15s:)

Greg Hines

------------------------------

Bundle: 511
Archive-Message-Number: 6212
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 12:34:27 CDT
From: Peter H. Brenton <pete@biochem.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Three-D Traveller


Jo Jaquinta writes;

	"One minor bitch I've always had about Traveller (Classic,
Mega or New Era) what that space is two-dimensional. You can lay out
the map of the Spinward Marches flat on your table. They don't
even try to rationalise it anywhere. (The best rationalisation I've
heard is that the 2D map represents what is close to what in jump-space
and does not necessarily relate to real-space)"

First of all, I agree completely, space IS Three-dimensional, and a game like
traveller which seems at times to jump through hoops to make its rules
conform to "reality" should really treat this subject likewise.

I remember reading somewhere (sorry no ref, I'm at work and refs are at home)
that part of the reasoning behind the two-d maps is that although space is
not flat, the galaxy, to some extent, is.  This argument falls apart rather
quickly when you start looking at a 3-D map of our nearest neighboring stars.

Doesn't Traveller 2300 use a 3D representation?  As I recall it puts each star
on a sort of 'Z coordinate scale' so that each star depicted on a flat map is
either small, medium, or large depending on how 'close' to the viewer it is.
That gives at least some third dimension, doesn't it?

My objection to using three-d star maps is that (without having tried it yet)
it seems like many of the historical facts of the traveller universe would need
to be reinterpreted.  If, as Jo says, everything is closer together in terms
of flight time, the length of time for news, cultural influence, disease
(the Virus?) reaching other, further planets is greatly reduced.  The likelyhood
 of there being a substantial rift (like that dividing the Domain of Deneb from
 the rest of the imperium) would decrease drastically.
(GM-"you come to a great rift."
PLAYER-"ok, we go over it!"
GM- "uh, oh, ok." [so much for my quest for a jump-5 ship])

I am, of course, oversimplifying.  But I'd like to hear about the effects on
Imperial politics (or anyone elses politics for that matter) and history before
adopting a three-dimensional universe (besides, what do I do with all these
blank subsector maps?).

- -Pete

"The opinions expressed certainly have nothing whatever to do with
the University of Chicago or the Department of Biochemistry (I just
work there and use their toys)."

------------------------------

Bundle: 511
Archive-Message-Number: 6213
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 14:19:31 CDT
From: Peter H. Brenton <pete@biochem.uchicago.edu>
Subject: large habitats

A project I am just beginning came about as a result of doing an extended
world generation of Glisten.

As you'all probably know, Glisten is an asteroid belt.  I assumed that the
large population would be distributed in many small habitats around the belt
(miners, shipbuilders being the main occupants)  The dice did not favor my
guess however and I rolled that there was one large city (9 billion people!)
with most of the system's pop in it.

Not being one to cheat the gods I began to devise an outer space habitat to
house this vast number of people (with some provision for their children, as
 well).

I envision a huge, disk-shaped habitat.  Spinning very slowly (physics doesn't
allow it not to spin, but I want grav generators to do most of the work of
making the inside 1G).  Habitation areas would be modulular and arrayed around
the disk, oriented so that 'up' is toward the center of the disk (dont want to
fight w/centrifugal(sp?) force).

At the center of the disk are several immense structures (oriented
perpendicular to the disk) housing the industrial base of the system; metal
refineries and shipyards.  Several large corporations compete here in both
industries, as well as pharmaceutical mfgrng, a thriving health service ind.
("live out your remaining days in zero-G comfort") etc. (I would love help with
the 'etc').

The modular habtats are shaped like an arc.  Size depends on how close to the
center the section is, but generally hold about 8 million people each (this will
bring things into scale; 8 million is the size of greater Chicago, I need about
71 of these modules to match the pop. assuming all mods of roughly equal size).

Each module is really a habitat unto itself.  I envision the inside to resemble
a long, green valley with steep sides.  People live everywhere, but the upper
class live high up the cliffs and along the thickly vegitated valley (providing
food and air recycling in a closed system), while middle and lower class live
"underground" in the areas away from the valley.

To give you an idea of what I'm talking about; One habitat
would be a slightly curved cube.  An area has been "scooped out" down the
center, much like a halved watermelon with all the flesh removed.  "Undergound"
is the area within the cube but not in contact with the vegitated area in the
middle.  Underground will become the home of the neglected, full of crime, the
poor laboring lower class, not a place for 'nice people' to go.  This is, of
course, a generalization; some Undergrounds will be quite livable.  Always though
they will be artificially ventilated areas with maze-like corridor structures and few "taxpayer services".

Transport within modules is by private vehicle, moving 'fast' walkways, 'subway'
or commuter train.  Movement between modules is by centrally controlled Tube
Transports.  Large railmounted 'trains' that move through vacuum at high speeds.
Propelled by frictionless magnetic rails which hold their course,  they are the
ultimate electromagnetic-repelling train.  They move through tubes (to protect
from accident or sabotage) with no air friction or rail friction to hold their
speed down.

The whole habitat would be located just inside the orbit of the asteroid belt
which provides the life's-blood of this system.  (In fact, without the belt a
structure in space the size of this one would be quite impossible to build).
I have been wondering what will (or has) happen when the belt runs dry.  The
habitat had to be a tremendous drain on the natural resources of the belt.  Is
it, in fact, possible to build such a structure?  what volume of metal and ore
would be required?

The outside of the habitat would be covered with solar panels, antennae/comm
equipment, the occasional observation lounge window, and hundreds of airlocks
and mainanence panels.  Robotic or small-craft mounted sentries would patrol from
a distance using sensors for safety and to prevent saboteurs/troublemakers.

`The outer layer would be stronger than a ships hull (armor factor 50 or so) and
be in two layers.  Primarily to prevent large asteroid impacts from penetrating
(such an impact would be a disaster anyway).  Some defenses may be mounted (meson
guns place deep in the middle of a habitat), but mostly they would depend on the
fleet facilities (does the City of Los Angeles have missile defenses? no, they
have fighters 'nearby' to chase bombers and ships at sea to prosecute submarines)
This is a civilian facility, although I was thinking a navy base/yard in the
center would be appropriate.

OK, thats what I've got for now.  I'm looking for other engineering
considerations, concepts for starport access (must have one per habitat?), ideas
to add color, flavor, and a sense of Scope to this idea.  How is the environment
maintained or recharged? Ice from the asteroid belt?  Remember this is a seedy
place; lots of crime, terrorism, elitism/class distinctions.  A city this large
should be as mixed and varied as the largest city on Earth (esp. since it has
a pop bigger than ALL of Earth).

Other questions; How old is the habitat?  what is the history of construction (I
though each ring of habitats would have been built outside the previous ones).
What abnormalities of everyday life do the people living there face?  Could
this have given rise to some odd customs or habits?

A final note;  I plan to eventually put this all together in a organized fashion
and submit it for the archives.  I also entertain the idea of submitting a
(boiled down) version of the posting to GDW or DGP for consideration.  I have
no qualms about using small details from others, but if this pans out and if
I use someone elses major concepts or ideas I will happily share credit and,
of course, payment, with any collaborators.

Yours,

Pete

- -----------------------------------------------------------------
		"There are two kinds of people in
	 	the world; those who divide people
		into two kinds, and those who don't."
- -----------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Bundle: 511
Archive-Message-Number: 6214
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 17:57:18 -0400
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@quark.qrc.com>
Subject: Help with FF&S Draft

GDW has sent me some of the drafts for Fire, Fusion, and Steel.  If you would
like to help by going over them and suggesting improvements, and if you have
the time to be able to do it now (FF&S is due out in November, this means
quick turn-around on the drafts is vital), send me E-mail for more info.

wildstar@quark.qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In the Far Future

------------------------------

Bundle: 511
Archive-Message-Number: 6215
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 17:07 PDT
Subject: 3d space
From: Edward_Swatschek@mindlink.bc.ca (Edward Swatschek)

> From: Jo Jaquinta <jaymin@maths.tcd.ie>
> Subject: Three Dimensional Traveller
> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 8:46:48 BST
>
> ...
>    _Space is big_ Really big. A small 10x10x10 parsec cube, what I had
> envisaged as a sub-sector, is really only comprable with a sector. Simple
> maths shows there are 1280 hexes in your standard 2D 32x40 sector and 1000
> in a 10x10x10 cube. In all that gaming they have never left that area.
> ...


   When I did a 3d universe, I used subsectors 10x10x10 parsecs, sectors
2x2x2 subsectors, and domains of 2x2x2 sectors (64 000 cubic parsecs).  I
found a realistic number of worlds per subsector would be 40-120 (about 500
per sector).  Average separation of ~1.5 parsecs.  I also did not like the
large number of habitable planets that normally crop up, so I revamped my
world generation system.  And star generation.  (It ended up being unusable
without a computer to do the work. :)  The separation of systems required
most ships to have at least 3 parsecs range to get around.  It made for some
convoluted trade routes if you are limited to jump 2-3.


- --
               Edjs                    _
              ------                _ //  CI$  : 76427,662
   Edward_Swatschek@mindlink.bc.ca  \X/   GEnie: E.SWATSCHEK
       MIND LINK! Support Team


------------------------------

Bundle: 511
Archive-Message-Number: 6216
From: richard@agora.rain.com (Richard Johnson)
Subject: 3D Universe?
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1993 05:48:43 -0700 (PDT)

I encourage everyone who is working on 3D universes.  I agree with most
everything you've said up to this point.  They are more realistic, more
interesting, and more complicated.

One of these days (in the distant future) the CAT people are going to be
assembling, from pieces built by members, an interactive gaming aid for
a computer-based RPG.  We have already chosen the 3D universe (by
consensus).  Of course we really have only the inklings of software at t
his point.  Some utilities and so forth.
- --
Richard Johnson      richard@agora.rain.com
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

------------------------------

Bundle: 511
Archive-Message-Number: 6217
Subject: Re: 3D traveller
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1993 09:55:45 -0400
From: "John C. Orthoefer" <jco@fs1-6.bbn.com>


Mapping traveller maps into 3-d isn't that bad.  I did it back in HS
(circa 1983).  But what you have to do is drop the damn hex grid.  You
map all the stars into spherical coordinates.

[Note: Spherical Coordinates are an ordered triple of (theta1, theta2,
r) where theta1 is the angle from the X-axis in the X-Y Plain; theta2
is the angle from the X-axis in the Y-Z plain; and r is the distance
from the origin.]

There are mapping functions between this and Cartesian Coordinates.
And yes you need a computer to do all this, I've had a good
programmable calculator since HS.  So it was no problem.  You also
need a computer/good calculator to do the jump calculations.

I wrote a program either in Basic or Turbo pascal, I don't remember if
it was on an apple or an IBM-PC, to convert subsectors for me.  And a
second which took the output and printed an Epson map of the sector.
The map was flat X-Y plain with elevations on it so we could figure
out where we where headed and the coordinates of the world.

Today with the new HP-48xx which has 3-d display primitives built in
you could put the whole sector into it and display it in 3-d (much the
same way your characters are, yes they have cool holo-systems but...)

Finaly don't ask me for the code.  It wasn't that hard to write (I did
it from a good geometry book.)  And you try and find some code you
wrote in HS!

If I had a current Traveller campain I would rewrite the software.

johno


------------------------------

Bundle: 511
Archive-Message-Number: 6218
From: JOT@CU.NIH.GOV
Date:     Fri, 22 Oct 1993  10:17:51 EDT
Subject:  Re:  TML nightly:  Msgs 6208-6215 V63#3

Thoughts on the asteroid city of Glisten:

1. Should the center industrial (and shipyard facilities) be
counter-rotated to facilitate docking, etc?  The benefit of
stable facilities could be outweighed by mechanics of rotating
mechanisms and such.

2.  I would place lots of missile type defenses like repulsor
bays on the outer surface.  (I assume you are using CT/MT for
the design - I don't have TNE, but what I have heard seems to
imply that TNE is more restrictive with regard to anti-grav
 .)

3.  You might like to refer to Megatraveller Journal #4.  The
gateway system description is an interesting alternative to
the disk-type space habitat.  One thing which might be a problem
is the actual mass of the station itself causing gravitational
problems.  This might lead builders to consider a sphereoid or
hollowed out planetoid design.

I would be interested in seeing the final design.  There are
so many systems in the Marches alone that I can never keep up
with the durn players.  Always jumping off in some new direction,
never hurts to have a few extra systems about.


===========================================
Andrew St. John                   _   /|
IMS, Inc. / Silver Spring MD      \'o.O'
JOT@CU.NIH.GOV                    =(___)=
                                    U
AAAAAccccckkkkkppptthhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
===========================================


------------------------------

Bundle: 511
Archive-Message-Number: 6219
Date: 	Fri, 22 Oct 1993 13:19:30 -0400
From: Greg Hines <BAD1066@OSUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Longbow..more questions

I looked at SM last night. Strephon tells Norris to commit the study of the
Longbow info to his heirs. (another point for the disaster down the road
theory). In reply Norris say thanks and "now the events of 1119 are clearer.
Well being the good detective I turned to the news service bulletins for
1119 and the only one from the Spinward Marches was about a heavily battle
scarred Zho group of ships that had jumped into a system, refueled and
jumped out. They broadcast warnings to all other ships in the area not to
interfere (there were Zho ships in the area), hmmmmm.....

------------------------------

Bundle: 511
Archive-Message-Number: 6220
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1993 16:53:54 -0600
From: snow@canusr.colorado.edu (Martin Snow)
Subject: 3D Traveller

It may appear that distances in a 3D universe are smaller, but I tend to
think that's an artifact of the way worlds are generated.  In the solar
neighborhood, the stellar density is about 1 star/cubic parsec, but what
fraction of these have planets at all (much less "worlds")?

The 2D method of a 50% probability per hex must include stars above and
below this plane, so if you just stack standard sectors on top of each
other you're generating too many worlds.  So the distances between
worlds may have decreased, but to compensate you really should make them
more sparse.

The way 3D space was treated in Space Opera was that each world on the 2D
map got a z-coordinate.  This made the bookkeeping fairly easy, and didn't
seem to generate worlds which were too close.  The world in the adjacent hex
might be very far away if one has z=+10 and the other z=-23.

Martin Snow
snow@lyrae.colorado.edu


------------------------------

Bundle: 511
Archive-Message-Number: 6221
Subject: Re: 3D Space
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 10:01:13 PDT
From: Will Hartung - Master Rallyeist <villy@uunet.uu.net>
Reply-To: me@zipbang.socal.com

> From: gwh@lurnix.COM
> You _can_ do it; I'm doing it right now for an alternate
> setting I'm toying with, though I may give up in the end
> and abstract things quite a bit.  One problem is that to
> map out a subsector-sized chunk, you need to use the
> sector-sized map squares, which hurts after a little while.
> They're hard to read and work with, and harder to draw in
> the useful info (base, starport, GG presence, etc).
> It also is hard to fit a whole "subsector" (being defined
> as roughly the boundaries of one jump radius) on one
> piece of paper in any case.  This really hurts more than
> the small squares do; you lose the forest for the trees
> in your flurry of pages of map.

Yes, representing a 3D start chart on paper is difficult. GDWs Near
Star Chart for 2300 was pretty nice, but it's deceptive because to
dots on the chart that are right next to each other can easily be on
opposite sides of the sphere.

One thing that popped to mind was an actual physical model -- ala
tinkertoys or maybe those smokey sausages on toothpicks (of course
that model may not survive the gaming session 8-) 8-). But, if your
area of space is small enough, a small model may be feasible, with the
sticks being color coded for length and maybe just showing popular
jump routes.

On the other side of the coin there are a couple of stat programs (the
original was something like "Mac Spin") that allow the entry of 3D
data, and then you can maipulate the "Cube of Data". You can spin it
around, flip it, whatever, on the computer screen. I'm pretty sure I
read somewhere that GDW used such a program to create the 2300 Map.

Of course, the detail is that you'll need the machine at the table.

> From: Peter H. Brenton <pete@biochem.uchicago.edu>
>
> First of all, I agree completely, space IS Three-dimensional, and a game like
> traveller which seems at times to jump through hoops to make its rules
> conform to "reality" should really treat this subject likewise.
>
> My objection to using three-d star maps is that (without having tried it
> yet) it seems like many of the historical facts of the traveller universe
> would need to be reinterpreted.  If, as Jo says, everything is closer
> together in terms of flight time, the length of time for news, cultural
> influence, disease (the Virus?) reaching other, further planets is greatly
> reduced.  The likelyhood of there being a substantial rift (like that
> dividing the Domain of Deneb from the rest of the imperium) would decrease
> drastically.

Well, one could always make the Rift as "High" as it is "Long", and
you'd still have a large gap is space that takes a long time to get
around.

As far as distances and such, I guess it would depend on what approach
you take to filling this new volume. Do you take the current start
systems and compact the map, or do you keep the map as is and add
layers to it, or do you just go through each subsector and roll a
D20-10 to get the new Z coordinate of each system? That would
certainly mess up the current jump routes.

Obviously Imperial Politics etc are dramatically affected by the,
umm, astrography (?) of the Imperium. I imagine that if for some
reason the Atlantic suddenly shifted and we ended up directly
bordering Europe, our politics would change a bit too.

I think that as far as trade routes and such, about the only thing 3D
really adds to the game is VOLUME. All of a sudden you've got more and
more planets to deal with. 3D would have a large effect on a TCS
campaign, but only in the fact fleets would be more thinly cast
because they have MUCH more territory to protect. In theory, you'd
have more ships for the fleet, but most systems don't add near as much
to the treasury compared to the burden to protect them.

In essence, though, I don't think the flavor or feel of a TCS
campaign or a Trader campaign would change much. You'd still have
fleets flying around with insane communication delays, you'd still fly
your trader to the most profitable planets for your goods, and it
still takes a week to get there.

So, I question whether it's worth the headache to manage.

The only place that 3D would change the "feel" dramatically, is in
tactical space combat. But even then, all it really changes are the
approaches of the units as they engage. One-on-One...wouldn't really
matter. Two on one, well...3 points define a plane... Several on one
it may get sticky.

3D matters in Fighter Plane games because the players are smack in the
gravity well and gain advantages from being above and below, but in
deep space, where it costs the same to maneuver regardless of dZ,
there's not any real play effect I would think for small engagements.

I don't know. Call me a fuddy duddy, but 2D seems to work okay for me.

Will
(me@zipbang.socal.com)

The TML is made possible by facilities provided by the University of
Western Ontario. All opinions and materials below are the responsibility
of the originator.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 512  6222 22-Oct-1993 Bertil Jonell    New Strikes <<   Ok, here it is:
 512  6223 22-Oct-1993 gwh@lurnix.COM   Re: 3D traveller  << John Orthoefer (ha
 512  6224 22-Oct-1993 "John C. Orthoe  Re: 3D traveller  << > John Orthoefer (
 512  6225 22-Oct-1993 gwh@lurnix.COM   Re: 3D traveller  << Actually, having h
 512  6226 23-Oct-1993 "Susan M. Shock  Questions about TNE << We need some ser
 512  6227 23-Oct-1993 Kin Ming Looi    2300AD star list << Can anyone tell me
 512  6228 23-Oct-1993 RJR96326@vax1.u  3D glasses << Just a quick note on repr
 512  6229 23-Oct-1993 JNCHIGGIN@delph  Divers responses << Greg Hines sez:
 512  6230 23-Oct-1993 AMNUSS@delphi.c  Glisten & Longbow <<  Back when Digest
 512  6231 24-Oct-1993 Timothy Little   3D mapping << > Mapping traveller maps
 512  6232 24-Oct-1993 Daniel P. Hejli  Re:2300AD Star list << Kin Ming Looi (m
 512  6233 24-Oct-1993 Eric Edward Moo  3d Maps << The easiest thing for doing
 512  6234 24-Oct-1993 Gerret Peters    Re TML Nightly 6208-6215 63-3 << With r
 512  6235 24-Oct-1993 james vassilako  Mapping in 3D... any IBM utilities? <<
 512  6236 25-Oct-1993 PPUGLIESE@pimac  MegaTrav Journal #4 << Inasmuchas DGP a
 512  6237 25-Oct-1993                  Re: TML nightly: Msgs 6225-6230 V63#5 <
 512  6238 25-Oct-1993 Joe Heck         Re: 2300AD Star List << I don't have th
 512  6239 25-Oct-1993 gwh@lurnix.COM   Re: 3D mapping << >From: Timothy Little
 512  6240 25-Oct-1993 403              Personal Weapons Stats in TNE << Greeti

------------------------------

Bundle: 512
Archive-Message-Number: 6222
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: New Strikes
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1993 22:51:41 +0100 (MET)

  Ok, here it is:

  First of all, determine the status of the belt like normal in Beltstrike,
ie cost of licences and the rolls to get them.

  (You should roll up the belt using Worldbuilders at this point)

  Second [this is my own addition] determine the freshness of the belt:

1d6	Freshness	Later DM on Geology
1-	Bonanza		+1
2	Very Rich	0
3	Rich		-1
4	Normal		-2
5	Poor		-3
6	Very Poor	-4
7+	Exhausted	-5

DM's: TL: 0-7: -1, 8-9: 0, 10-11: +1, 12-13: +2, 14+: +3. Use PreVirus TL
     Cost of license (roll 5+ on 1d6 to ignore this DM): 0Cr +2, 1Cr-6kCr: +1,
     10kCr-600kCr: 0, 1MCr+: -1.

     Rationale: Higher TL places have had more time to exploit their belts.
		High cost of license means that there is something to get
		there, no license that it is of lower value.
		The dependence on the license cost is not set in stone, so
		there is a 33% chance of ignoring it.

     Note that the players shouldn't *know* what Freshness a certain belt
has, but they might hear rumours about it. Most NPC belters know which belts
(remember that most systems have some kind of belts!) in a subsector that
are rumored to be bonanzas or regarded as being exhausted.


  Here is the search roll [replaces the 2d6 roll in Beltstrike]:

  Formidable: Geology.

    (first divide asset to get Formidable, *then* add modifiers)

  DM's: The mod from Freshness.
	Each period beyond the first a certain person mans the sensors: -1.
	Accelerating ship (rare in TNE): -2.
	In trojan cluster: +1.
	Ship lacks densitometer (handheld dens is *not* enough): -2

	Max Sensor range:

	ls	DM
	1	-3
	2	-2
	4	-1
	8	0

	(ls = light seconds, or 300,000km. The maximum sensor range that
	 can be used in a certain belt is half the width of the belt.
	 Example: A ship with a sensor range of 8 ls is scanning a 2 ls wide
	 belt. They will get a DM of minus 3 from this, since there is only
	 one ls of belt to each side to actually scan, regardless of that
	 the sensors see further.

        Optional: Assuming that the sensors have to be used differently for
	each zone in the belt (C M and N), replace width of belt above with
	'width of the zone they are currently scanning')

  Rationale: Same as in beltstrike for additional periods and accelerating
	     ship. Densitometer seems like a good sensor for belters to have
	     so lack of it is penalized.
	     The 'current producing area' area mod is replaced by making
	     the belt locally Fresher.
	     Bad sensors are also penalized, as are belts that are so thin
	     that full sensor capacity can't be used.

  [Insert old beltstrike procedure to determine what type of find that is
indicated, and if it is really present]

  The WBH procedure gives a common max and absolute max size of the asteroids
in a belt. That data is used by this. If the size rolled on the table below
is larger than the common max diameter given, reduce the size of the asteroid
to the common max asteroid, *except* in the case where a natural 12 is rolled
and the belt have an absolute max size larger than the common max size. In
this latter case, use the absolute max size given.

roll	extent	time	diameter
1	1	1h	3m
2	10	3h	6m
3	100	6h	14m
4	1000	12h	30m
5	10000	15h	64m
6	100000	18h	140m
7	1000000	24h	300m
8	small	30h	500m
9	small	40h	700m
10	small	50h	1km
11	large	60h	5km
12	large	100h	10km+

  time is the time in manhours required to conduct the initial survey, just
like in beltstrike but given in another timeunit. extent is extent in
displacement tons. Just like in beltstrike, the *actual* extent of the
asteroid and the find is got by multiplying the extent with 1d10 (reroll 1's).

  Mining: Each person with laserdrill can per hour mine and load 1m3.
	  Each helper w/o laserdrill adds 0.25m3 up to +0.5m3 for two
	    helpers per person with drill which is max.
          If a big turret mounted mining laser is used it adds 1m3 per
	  person *and* helper (max add 30m3).

  Use the costs from beltstrike with 1 ton = 14m3.

  Yup, that's all the changes I made. I've used it once and it appeared to work
ok, but I'd be interested in any comments.

  Free hint: The trick is not to find a rich belt, the trick is to find an
acceptable belt in a system where you will get a good price for the ore.

- -bertil-
- --
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Bundle: 512
Archive-Message-Number: 6223
Subject: Re: 3D traveller
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 14:55:36 -0700
From: gwh@lurnix.COM


John Orthoefer (haven't seen you on icb recently, John 8-)
commented that 3-D traveller isn't too bad, given computer
game aids and such.  He's right, but it's still not a good
idea for many campaigns.

Doing a map-based (and 3D maps work, slowly and painfully ;-)
3-D system is possible if clumsy, and can be put into source
books and such, and doesn't require that the user have a particular
type of computer or calculator.  The problem is that it's very
clumsy, unless you think really hard first.

Doing purely co-ordinates based, using a computer or calculator
for relative distance calculations, is more elegant and much harder
to reproduce.  It's great if you're doing a campaign for your
own use... you can set up the computer program or calculator
functions to do the number-crunching for you, and don't have to
worry about having anyone else use the programs.

It's not portable.

The issue isn't doing one campaign, it's creating a system which
can be put on paper and sold in a source book, which is much much
harder.  You can't put a calculator program in such a source
book and expect people to go buy that brand of calculator.
You might get away with shipping 3 floppies, one with a Mac
version of the program, and a 3.5 and 5.25 floppy with PC
versions which will run on anything from a 286 on up.
But that's going to add three or four dollars to the product.
[Or you could ship three different versions 8-)]

There are still some problems with doing it that way.  It's
hard to visualze these 3-d representations, and the further
you get from having them on paper the harder it gets.
When it's a single subsector, it's not that bad... but at
larger scales, it's very hard to tell where you are relative
to nearby systems.

I don't like this.
I want to see a system which can be put down on paper,
can be mapped on paper, can be used without having to
resort to a calculator or computer, though those aids may
be very helpful.  Such a system is possible.

- -george william herbert



------------------------------

Bundle: 512
Archive-Message-Number: 6224
Subject: Re: 3D traveller
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1993 19:22:05 -0400
From: "John C. Orthoefer" <jco@fs1-6.bbn.com>


> John Orthoefer (haven't seen you on icb recently, John 8-)

I'm around, just not very vocal anymore.

> He's right, but it's still not a good
> idea for many campaigns.

Well I liked it in mine.  But then I'm not sure if I like the campaign
or the hacking to get the software working.

>  The problem is that it's very
> clumsy, unless you think really hard first.

My point was that you don't have to think hard.  You just map all the
subsectors your intressed in a spherical system (I like to put  it
around a central world).  Then you map all the central worlds with
respect to each other.  Getting jump distances is then trival (trival
meaning there is a big nasty formual to do it, but you code it once
and then ask your computer tell you how far it is).

> It's great if you're doing a campaign for your
> own use... you can set up the computer program or calculator
> functions to do the number-crunching for you, and don't have to
> worry about having anyone else use the programs.

it sure is.  and you get nifty star maps and you can play what if
games just like your character are.  Because it's no longer ovious
which way you want your trading routes to go.

> It's not portable.

I don't think I ever claimed this.  I simply claimed it could be done
from experiance.

I think that you'll find in any group of people play RPGs today
atleast one of them knows something about programing.  I also think
that most of them atleast one owns an HP-48, at least at U of F you
had to have one to be an engineering student.

So if you write say a 48 program to do the math.  And a PC and Mac
version that does both the math and visulation (a 3-d scatter plot).
Make the program under something like the Gnu Public License (GPL).
And I bet you would do well.  Then you tell people to either call your
BBS and downlaod the s/w or get it off the net.  Not net incress in
the cost of the book (at least SJI seems to be doing well with
theirs).

Speaking of visulation I did fine with a flat display.  I used a + or
- - to repersent the world and a number to tell you the hight/depth of
it on the page (also the spherical coordants)  I knew excaly where
things where.

> When it's a single subsector, it's not that bad... but at
> larger scales, it's very hard to tell where you are relative
> to nearby systems.

Thats why you only map subsectors and then your orient your
subsectors into sectors.

> I want to see a system which can be put down on paper,
> can be mapped on paper, can be used without having to
> resort to a calculator or computer, though those aids may
> be very helpful.  Such a system is possible.

I'm not computer-phobic infact I use computers all the time when I
don't really need to.  And YES if I get stuck on some backwaters
planet I may not be able to build a ship to achieve orbit.  But that
is to be talked about some other time :-)

I don't care if I need a computer to use the system, becuase I know if
I'm playing I'm going to have something atleast as powerful as my 48
to use.

johno

------------------------------

Bundle: 512
Archive-Message-Number: 6225
Subject: Re: 3D traveller
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 17:21:38 -0700
From: gwh@lurnix.COM


Actually, having had it brought to mind, I finished up
work on my 3-d system (which was actually intended for
a slightly nonstandard background, but works for any
Traveller area anyway...).

It's got subsectors which are 5x5x5 cubes, and a
workable subsector map (whose prototype (postscript) will be
FTPable from the Traveller directory at ocf.berkeley.edu
by the end of the day).  Sectors are 2x2x2 subsectors.
There are 125 cubic hexes in the subsector, 50% more
than the flat subsectors in normal traveller but
quite usable.  That should average perhaps 40
worlds per subsector, a manageable number.

- -george william herbert



------------------------------

Bundle: 512
Archive-Message-Number: 6226
Date:         Sat, 23 Oct 93 01:44:09 EDT
From: "Susan M. Shock" <34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Subject:      Questions about TNE

We need some serious help understanding the personal combat rules for TNE. This
may have been discussed before, but I wasn't here. Here's our questions:
   1.) How exactly does the penetration rules for small arms work? Is there som
e kind of error? If the rules and the weapons charts are correct, any weapon wi
th a PEN of 1 and DAM of 1 can't penetrate any armor! An example: the 10mm Auto
Snub with HEAP has a DAM of 2 and a PEN of 2-2-2. It cannot penetrate any armor
with a AV of 1, even though it's supposed to be armor piercing! Are we misunder
standing these rules? Also. lasers have a PEN of Nil. If we are understanding t
hese rules correctly. a laser can't penetrate any armor better than Plate from
the Body Armor Protection Table (p. 359)! This just doesn't seem right!

   2. Where is Reflec Armor? It was in both previous versions of Traveller. If
it DID (or DOES) exist, what would it's stats be?

   3. The autofire rules seem oriented toward spray fire. What would you sugges
t for directing a burst at a SINGLE target? (IMpossible seems a bit severe.)

  Answers would be greatly appreciated; my campaign is literally about to
 crash due to player discontent.

------------------------------

Bundle: 512
Archive-Message-Number: 6227
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 93 08:52 GMT0BST-1
From: Kin Ming Looi <ming@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: 2300AD star list
Reply-To: ming@cix.compulink.co.uk


Can anyone tell me if 2300AD's near star available in machine readable
form (dBase, CSV, etc.)?

Regards,
Kin Ming Looi
(ming@cix.compulink.co.uk)


------------------------------

Bundle: 512
Archive-Message-Number: 6228
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1993 4:58:46 GMT
From: RJR96326@vax1.utulsa.edu
Subject: 3D glasses

Just a quick note on representing 3 dimensions on 2.

Can any of this programs spin the plot so that it's in perspective? You'd need
lines
to make it look right, but it could be done.


J Roberson

------------------------------

Bundle: 512
Archive-Message-Number: 6229
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1993 08:13:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: JNCHIGGIN@delphi.com
Subject: Divers responses

Greg Hines sez:

>Of course I could just be incredibly paranoid since in an Old CT campaign
>we spent alot of time fighting the big C and his minions that would not die
>(well, the little ones die when you hit them with enough FGMP-15s:)

	Gee, I thought I was the only one to do things that weird!  (...and I
have been entertaining thoughts of "Gothic Punk Space Opera"...)

	Yes, I noticed those interesting tidbits from Survival Margin.  Made me
wonder if GDW was going to do Digest Group's "Baddies from the Core"
campaign after all...

Pete Brenton:

>I am, of course, oversimplifying.  But I'd like to hear about the effects
>on Imperial politics (or anyone elses politics for that matter) and history
>before adopting a three-dimensional universe (besides, what do I do with
>all these blank subsector maps?).

	It would completely change the entire history of the Imperium, starting
from the Vilani expansion in -gawdawful B.C.  I agree with Jo about the
annoying artificiality of the standard 2D maps, BUT... because of the
effect on history, I am resigned to using them for a "standard" Imperial
campaign.  If I ever run a home-brew universe, I will use the GURPS Space
3D Maps.   Lots of great material to swipe for Traveller worlds in the
GURPS Space Atlas series, if you've never seen them.


>> From: Jo Jaquinta <jaymin@maths.tcd.ie>
>> Subject: Three Dimensional Traveller
>> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 8:46:48 BST
>>
>> ...
>>    _Space is big_ Really big. A small 10x10x10 parsec cube, what I had
>> envisaged as a sub-sector, is really only comprable with a sector. Simple
>> maths shows there are 1280 hexes in your standard 2D 32x40 sector and
>>1000 in a 10x10x10 cube. In all that gaming they have never left that
>>area.
>> ...

From: Edward_Swatschek@mindlink.bc.ca (Edward Swatschek)

>   When I did a 3d universe, I used subsectors 10x10x10 parsecs, sectors
>2x2x2 subsectors, and domains of 2x2x2 sectors (64 000 cubic parsecs).  I
>found a realistic number of worlds per subsector would be 40-120 (about 500
>..... The separation of systems required
>most ships to have at least 3 parsecs range to get around.  It made for
>some convoluted trade routes if you are limited to jump 2-3.

I had a similar experience with my short-lived "Traveller:2600" home-brew
campaign.  I ran it for a few months when I was in the Navy, and I used
a 3D 8x10x10 subsector.  Didn't need any larger administrative units such
as the sector, as all the major powers were a couple of subsectors large
at most.  As it was, the players never got out of Sol subsector.  I found
that trade routes tended to manifest as "arms" out from Terra, just like
in 2300.  I assumed this would be true for any alien homeworld as well,
and interesting things would happen where those "arms" came in contact.

Pete Benton again:

>OK, thats what I've got for now.  I'm looking for other engineering
>considerations, concepts for starport access (must have one per habitat?),
>ideas to add color, flavor, and a sense of Scope to this idea.  How is the
>environment maintained or recharged? Ice from the asteroid belt?  Remember
>this is a seedy place; lots of crime, terrorism, elitism/class
>distinctions.  A city this large should be as mixed and varied as the
>largest city on Earth (esp. since it has a pop bigger than ALL of Earth).

>Other questions; How old is the habitat?  what is the history of
>construction (I though each ring of habitats would have been built outside
>the previous ones). What abnormalities of everyday life do the people
>living there face?  Could this have given rise to some odd customs or
>habits?

Recommended reading:
	- "Rendezvous with Rama" by Arthur C. Clarke
		If you haven't read it, the story deals with a human expedition
exploring a huge alien habitat that has entered the Solar System.

	- "Starhammer" by Christopher ??I can't remember the last name??
		Part of the action takes place aboard a huge, ancient, decaying deep
space habitat inhabited by a stratified society like you envision for the
big Glisten habitat.

	- Steve mentions "Titan" by John Varley.
		A large, decaying, alien space habitat, I am told.


				-- Cynthia

------------------------------

Bundle: 512
Archive-Message-Number: 6230
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1993 19:14:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: AMNUSS@delphi.com
Subject: Glisten & Longbow


 Back when Digest Group Publications was publishing Traveller stuff they
 did the Glisten system.  It was published in The Traveller's Digest #15.
 The article covered General System Data; Cultural, Technological, and
 Law profiles; History; and Physical Data.  It also has Grand Survey and
 Grand Census profiles and a map of the system.

 The answer to the TNS item about who attacked the Zho ships is in The
 MegaTraveller Journal #4 (Digest Group Publications) on pages 87 to 89.

 I hope this helps.

 Alan

------------------------------

Bundle: 512
Archive-Message-Number: 6231
From: Timothy Little <t_little@postoffice.utas.edu.au>
Subject: 3D mapping
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 93 14:09:33 EST

> Mapping traveller maps into 3-d isn't that bad.  I did it back in HS
> (circa 1983).  But what you have to do is drop the damn hex grid.  You
> map all the stars into spherical coordinates.

You can (if you like) retain the hex-grid.  However, just as a hex grid
gives better adjacency than a square grid (6 neighbors to each grid point
as opposed to only 4), you can get better adjacency by shifting adjacent
planes of a stack of hex grids in 3D.  It looks really clumsy in text, so
I'll try to draw some pictures.

Instead of using layers of hex paper like:
 __    __        __    __        __    __
/  \__/  \__    /  \__/  \__    /  \__/  \__
\__/  \__/  \   \__/  \__/  \   \__/  \__/  \
/  \__/  \__/   /  \__/  \__/   /  \__/  \__/
\__/  \__/  \   \__/  \__/  \   \__/  \__/  \
/  \__/  \__/   /  \__/  \__/   /  \__/  \__/
\__/  \__/      \__/  \__/      \__/  \__/
   Layer 1         Layer 2         Layer 3      etc...

Where each hex has 8 neighbors; 6 around it, 1 up, and 1 down:

                       1
                   2       6
         7             *               8
                   3       5
                       4

Use a simple shifted pattern like:
    __    __       __    __       __    __    _        __    __
\__/  \__/  \    _/  \__/  \__      \__/  \__/     \__/  \__/  \
/  \__/  \__/     \__/  \__/      __/  \__/  \_    /  \__/  \__/
\__/  \__/  \    _/  \__/  \__      \__/  \__/     \__/  \__/  \
/  \__/  \__/     \__/  \__/      __/  \__/  \_    /  \__/  \__/
\__/  \__/  \    _/  \__/  \__      \__/  \__/     \__/  \__/  \
/  \__/  \__/     \__/  \__/      __/  \__/  \_    /  \__/  \__/
  Layer 1          Layer 2          Layer 3          Layer 4       etc...

So that each hex now has 12 neighbors:

                       1
      7             2     6            11
         9             *            10
      8             3     5            12
                       4

It looks much clearer if your hex maps are done on transparencies,
which you can get by photocopying a normal hex grid onto plastic sheets.
(If you only have access to white-lines-on-black, some photocopiers can
do inverse print - otherwise, you can buy hex paper or draw your own)

> There are mapping functions between this and Cartesian Coordinates.
> And yes you need a computer to do all this, I've had a good
> programmable calculator since HS.  So it was no problem.  You also
> need a computer/good calculator to do the jump calculations.

I don't see any need to use spherical coordinates, since Cartesian is so
much easier to handle.  For one thing, it doesn't matter where you put the
origin, since you can change it by simple subtraction.  Even the distance
between two points (*horrendous* under spherical coordinates) can be done
on a simple `4-function' calculator (since most also have square-root).

> Yes, representing a 3D start chart on paper is difficult. GDWs Near
> Star Chart for 2300 was pretty nice, but it's deceptive because to
> dots on the chart that are right next to each other can easily be on
> opposite sides of the sphere.
>
> One thing that popped to mind was an actual physical model -- ala
> tinkertoys or maybe those smokey sausages on toothpicks (of course
> that model may not survive the gaming session 8-) 8-). But, if your
> area of space is small enough, a small model may be feasible, with the
> sticks being color coded for length and maybe just showing popular
> jump routes.

One idea that may or may not work:  with transparent hex grids, you could
put a hole in each corner, and put some thin rods through them.  Maybe
you'd need some more through the body of the map to prevent it sagging in
the middle.  Anyway, if that worked, you might get a needle and some
coloured thread to show common jump routes, or something.

> On the other side of the coin there are a couple of stat programs (the
> original was something like "Mac Spin") that allow the entry of 3D
> data, and then you can maipulate the "Cube of Data". You can spin it
> around, flip it, whatever, on the computer screen. I'm pretty sure I
> read somewhere that GDW used such a program to create the 2300 Map.
>
> Of course, the detail is that you'll need the machine at the table.

Yes - that's why I tend to shy away from relying too much on my computer.
Of course, I use it extensively for typing up notes and other non-realtime
stuff.  I'm a programmer, so I can do whatever I want  :-)
The problem is finding the time to fiddle with horrible little buggy bits of
code and wading through poor documentation  :-(

> The only place that 3D would change the "feel" dramatically, is in
> tactical space combat. But even then, all it really changes are the
> approaches of the units as they engage. One-on-One...wouldn't really
> matter. Two on one, well...3 points define a plane... Several on one
> it may get sticky.

3 points define a plane, sure, but 3 moving points define a moving plane,
and the tactics of a moving plane differ from those of a static plane.
For one thing, a straight line path (often costing no `maneuver points' in
space battle games) in 3D space maps onto a complicated curve (costing many
`maneuver points') in the case of a plane defined by the positions of the
other 2 ships.  Furthermore, objects that should be "fixed" (like planets)
will need to be counted as a "ship", since they will not in general lie on
the plane defined by the 3 ships.

To make an analogy, you might equally well say that 2 points define a line,
and that therefore any 2-ship battle can be played on a line...
Think how much easier a point-defence objective would be if the enemy had to
*literally* go straight through you to reach its target!

2-ship battles simulated in 2D are not quite so bad, assuming that only
relative velocities matter, and that orientations and `absolute' velocities
don't.  Unfortunately, no space combat game I've seen has both these
conditions, so 2D is even inadequate in the simple 2-ship case.

- --
Tim Little

------------------------------

Bundle: 512
Archive-Message-Number: 6232
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 93 00:42:24 -0400
From: dph2@po.CWRU.Edu (Daniel P. Hejlik)
Subject: Re:2300AD Star list
Reply-To: dph2@po.CWRU.Edu (Daniel P. Hejlik)



Kin Ming Looi (ming@cix.compulink.co.uk) writes:

>
>Can anyone tell me if 2300AD's near star available in machine
> readable form (dBase, CSV, etc.)?



I found two sources by using Veronica on the gopher server.  I
used the string:nearby stars  I was able to successfully
download the list from the source given below:



>Subject: [sci.space] Nearby stars database available online
     (was Re: Map of Local Interstellar Space...in 3-d!)
>Message-ID: <ko6nvvINNe2k@agate.berkeley.edu>
>Date: 27 Jan 92 01:27:27 GMT
>Approved: adam@soda.berkeley.edu.
>
>Archive-name: auto/sci.space/Nearby-stars-database-available-
      online-was-Re-Map-of-Local-Interstellar-Space-in-3-d

>> This query about nearby Interstellar space seems to be a
>> perennial.  How about we add it to the FAQ with reference to
>> Gleise, Traveller 2300 (a game from Game Designers Workshop,
>> I think, which invited interested people to write in for a
>> disk of the data for stars within 50 ly that could be used in
>> MacSpin with 3D zooming etc)? I'll haul up from tape a
>> listing of the nearby stars and place it into the FTP archive
>> here.... I'll put a short note out when I've down it (tape
>> drives permitting!)

>    I put a machine-readable version of "The Catalogue of Stars
> within twenty-five parsecs of the Sun" (Woolley, Epps, Penston
> and Pocock (1970), which I originally obtained from the
> National Space Science Data Center (*) online. It's in the
> ames.arc.nasa.gov anonymous FTP SPACE archive in
>
>	pub/SPACE/FAQ/{stars.README,stars.data,stars.doc}

>    I'll put something about this in the next posting of
>            the FAQ as well.

>    Followups to sci.space.

>(*) See the sci.space FAQ if you have questions about the NSSDC.
>--
>    Jon Leech (leech@cs.unc.edu)    __@/
>    "The imaging team is moving from its ``instant science'' mode to
>     a more leisurely ``fast science'' mode."
>	- Dr.  Bradford Smith, Voyager Imaging Team


I hope that this is useful.




		               --Daniel Hejlik




- --
Daniel P. Hejlik
Cleveland, Ohio

------------------------------

Bundle: 512
Archive-Message-Number: 6233
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1993 13:23:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Edward Moore <deathmaster+@CMU.EDU>
Subject: 3d Maps

The easiest thing for doing 3D maps that I ever worked out was to draw
lines connecting all the planets of a certain distance.  i.e. plot out
a map of all jump-1 routes, another of all jump-2 routes, etc.... it
shows connectivity well, and allows planoing out merchant trips, etc
easy...

	-Love, Kisses, and a Neutron Bomb
		-Eric the Finn

------------------------------

Bundle: 512
Archive-Message-Number: 6234
Date:         Sun, 24 Oct 93 21:05:41 EST
From: Gerret Peters <GMP93003%UCONNVM.bitnet@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu>
Subject:      Re TML Nightly 6208-6215 63-3

With regards to the 0-G uses of the center of the asteroid city:

1) Entertainment.  All sorts of people would revel in being able to throw
off gravity for a while and enjoy some 0-G activity.  Nullgrav versions of
all major sports would probably be possible, such as 0-G football. (and you
think they have trouble on a planar field! ;) )  Even low-gravity portions
of the ring could be used for entertainment, most notably in the area of
hang-gliding type sports. It would take a long time to come down, and the fall
probably wouldn't kill you if you fell...  (On the seamier side, 0-G brothels.
 ......) :|
  (Having just returned from a Paintball excursion, I'm wondering if there
mightn't be some sort of semi-combat 0-G version of capture the flag?)



2) There would probably be some simulation and training facilities for some
of the law enforcement agencies, maybe something like a combat village, with
a complete simulated set of spacecraft to practice boarding and the like.
Being able to practice training in a closed environment would allow them to
vary a lot of training parameters for a much more controlled training setting.


3) Cargo. Isn't it a whole lot easier to move cargo around in 0-G? No gravity
friction to contend with and the like.  Probably lots of HEAVY assembly going
on, maybe starship construction as well.



I prefer the entertainment idea, I'll have to think it out a bit more fully.

Gerret.

------------------------------

Bundle: 512
Archive-Message-Number: 6235
From: james vassilakos <jimv@ucrengr.ucr.edu>
Subject: Mapping in 3D... any IBM utilities?
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1993 22:14:57 -0700 (PDT)


> From: Timothy Little <t_little@postoffice.utas.edu.au>
> Use a simple shifted pattern like:
>     __    __       __    __       __    __    _        __    __
> \__/  \__/  \    _/  \__/  \__      \__/  \__/     \__/  \__/  \
> /  \__/  \__/     \__/  \__/      __/  \__/  \_    /  \__/  \__/
> \__/  \__/  \    _/  \__/  \__      \__/  \__/     \__/  \__/  \
> /  \__/  \__/     \__/  \__/      __/  \__/  \_    /  \__/  \__/
> \__/  \__/  \    _/  \__/  \__      \__/  \__/     \__/  \__/  \
> /  \__/  \__/     \__/  \__/      __/  \__/  \_    /  \__/  \__/
>   Layer 1          Layer 2          Layer 3          Layer 4       etc...

The problem with this, of course, is that you have to consult
(and think about) numerous maps just to get a picture in your mind
of one area (unless you put the maps on transparencies as you
suggest, and overlay these transparencies... a bit of work for
all concerned). Alternately, by tossing all the data in one map, you
get the picture more readily, but you also end up getting confused
by stars which *look* close to each other but really aren't. For
us programmers, we also have to contend with the difficulty that
arises when two stars occupy the exact same z-coordinate (and you'll
run into the same problem with your transparency idea). Suddenly it
becomes rather difficult to display both stars at the same time unless
you have some way of pivoting the perspective.

Hence the computer-aided map-viewing idea, which is okay as long as
your players don't mind.

Another poster:
> On the other side of the coin there are a couple of stat programs (the
> original was something like "Mac Spin") that allow the entry of 3D
> data, and then you can maipulate the "Cube of Data". You can spin it
> around, flip it, whatever, on the computer screen. I'm pretty sure I
> read somewhere that GDW used such a program to create the 2300 Map.

**  Is there an IBM utility that does this available via ftp?  **

The main trick is that it has to at least be able to display characters
(names of the respective star systems) beside each dot.

Eric Edward Moore <deathmaster+@CMU.EDU>
> The easiest thing for doing 3D maps that I ever worked out was to draw
> lines connecting all the planets of a certain distance.  i.e. plot out
> a map of all jump-1 routes, another of all jump-2 routes, etc.... it
> shows connectivity well, and allows planoing out merchant trips, etc
> easy...

Yeah, but again, you still run into the two-stars/one-z_coordinate
problem. I'd prefer a mac-spin type arrangement and just make
sure we're playing somewhere close to an IBM with decent graphics
(not a terribly difficult feat, at least with the people I tend
to game with). I wouldn't want the machine on all session, but for
a brief consult-the-maps interlude, it could work out nicely.

Then again, there's always 2D. *gasp*

           _   /|       Jim Vassilakos
           \`o_O'       jimv@ucrengr.ucr.edu
             ( )        jimv@silver.lcs.mit.edu
              U         jimv@wizards.com
           Aachk!       (USA) 909-864-3814


------------------------------

Bundle: 512
Archive-Message-Number: 6236
Date: 25 Oct 1993 00:52:44 -0700
From: PPUGLIESE@pimacc.pima.edu
Subject: MegaTrav Journal #4

Inasmuchas DGP apparently decided there was no point in ful-
filling my subscription since they were dropping MegaTrav anyway,
I wonder if someone could post or e-mail me the answer, on pps
87-89, I believe, to who/what attacked those aforementioned beat-up
'Zho ships.

thanks, Phil
p.s. let's see the mailing label that came with MTJ #3 says "last
issue #4". Thanks DGP. Don't hold your breath waiting for me to
buy AI!


------------------------------

Bundle: 512
Archive-Message-Number: 6237
Date:    Mon, 25 Oct 93 09:08 EDT
From: <PHB100@PSUVM.PSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: TML nightly: Msgs 6225-6230 V63#5

>TML nightly     Sat Oct 23 20:30:03 EDT 1993    Volume 63 : Issue 5
>
>Bundle: 512
>Archive-Message-Number: 6229
>Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1993 08:13:26 -0400 (EDT)
>From: JNCHIGGIN@delphi.com
>Subject: Divers responses
>
>Greg Hines sez:
>
 ...
>
>Recommended reading:
>
>        - "Starhammer" by Christopher ??I can't remember the last name??

Christopher Rowley: _Starhammer_, _Vang: The Military Form_,
_Vang: Battlemaster_ .    All set in the same universe, although Starhammer
occurs hundreds (thousands?) of years before the other two.

>

------------------------------

Bundle: 512
Archive-Message-Number: 6238
Date:         Mon, 25 Oct 93 10:34:17 CDT
From: Joe Heck <CCJOE@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu>
Subject:      Re: 2300AD Star List

I don't have the exact locations of the 2300AD near star list, but I do have
a _real_ near star list that encompasses the nearest 26 parsecs in a sphere
(which is what I understand the list was made from). I have it in a database
format now, and could give you a copy in about anything (Tabed, CSM, Excel,
Lotus, B-Base, etc). If you'd like it, drop me a note and I can arrange it
through a FTP site (or mail it to you if you're really hungry for it).

 joe                          University of Missouri - Columbia
 ccjoe@mizzou1.missouri.edu   (314) 882-5000

------------------------------

Bundle: 512
Archive-Message-Number: 6239
Subject: Re: 3D mapping
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 13:36:14 -0700
From: gwh@lurnix.COM


>From: Timothy Little <t_little@postoffice.utas.edu.au>
Subject: 3D mapping
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 93 14:09:33 EST

>You can (if you like) retain the hex-grid.  However, just as a hex grid
>gives better adjacency than a square grid (6 neighbors to each grid point
>as opposed to only 4), you can get better adjacency by shifting adjacent
>planes of a stack of hex grids in 3D.  It looks really clumsy in text, so
>I'll try to draw some pictures.

>Instead of using layers of hex paper like:
[very good ASCII graphic deleted]
>Where each hex has 8 neighbors; 6 around it, 1 up, and 1 down:
>Use a simple shifted pattern like:
>So that each hex now has 12 neighbors:
>It looks much clearer if your hex maps are done on transparencies,
>which you can get by photocopying a normal hex grid onto plastic sheets.
>(If you only have access to white-lines-on-black, some photocopiers can
>do inverse print - otherwise, you can buy hex paper or draw your own)

There is much to be said for the offset-stacking method.  There are also
good reasons not to use it.  Primarily, it makes mapping with anything
BUT maps-on-transparencies much harder to "see" what's going on.

I chose to have a straight-stacked map for my 3D subsector map,
with 8 neighbors (6 on same level and one above and one below),
and am cheating a bit and also giving a better distance function
if you want to shave a couple of parsecs off that jump (which makes
the systems at up/down one and over one 1 parsec away for jump
purposes, though they're really 1.414 (sqrt(2)) away...).

It's not as realistic, but it's much easier to visualize.
The whole point of using very large-grain hexes is to simplify;
Traveller 2D could have mapped using cartesian coordinates in
much finer detail, but they simplified to keep it straightforwards.
I think that applying that methodology to 3D developments is
a good idea.

- -george william herbert



------------------------------

Bundle: 512
Archive-Message-Number: 6240
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1993 16:34:50 -0600 (MDT)
From: "Harry Eng (403) 297-4019" <HENG@avc.calgary.ab.ca>
Subject: Personal Weapons Stats in TNE

Greetings to everyone,

I'm new to the list, so this topic may have already discussed to death.
I've noticed that the stats for the personal weapons make for some very
strange effects in combat.  IE: most lasers cannot penetrate Kevlar, much less
a spacesuit; plasma/fusion guns do more damage at extreme range than close
in; etc.  Am I reading the rules right?  Or are there some errata available
for the weapons table?

A confused traveller fan.

------------------------------
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by the University of
Western Ontario. All opinions and materials below are the responsibility
of the originator.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 513  6241 26-Oct-1993 rancke@diku.dk   Handmade high-tech << I''m currently de
 513  6242 26-Oct-1993 Michael A. Surm  3D Space Displayed << Here's an idea I
 513  6243 26-Oct-1993 Steven Owens     3D Space  << Jo Jaquinta (I think) said
 513  6244 25-Oct-1993 Steven Owens     Glisten Habitat << >>Other questions; H
 513  6245 26-Oct-1993 Steven Owens     3D Space  << Jo Jaquinta (I think) said
 513  6246 26-Oct-1993 David G. Hall,   Re: Fun things to do in Zero-G << >From
 513  6247 26-Oct-1993 David G. Hall,   Re: Displaying 3-D in 2-D <<         On
 513  6248 26-Oct-1993 David G. Hall,   Re: Displaying 3-D in 2-D <<         On
 513  6249 26-Oct-1993 AMNUSS@delphi.c  MTJ4 << The Zho's were betten up by the
 513  6250 27-Oct-1993 pihlab@cbr.hhcs  TNE Combat << TNE Combat just doesn't w
 513  6251 27-Oct-1993 davis@licre.lud  3-D displays << Hello all.  I've been r
 513  6252 27-Oct-1993 pihlab@cbr.hhcs  Re: 3D Mapping << 3D mapping was discus
 513  6253 27-Oct-1993 RJR96326@vax1.u  5 responses << This may be a little bri
 513  6254 27-Oct-1993 Dan's Traveller  Re: Handmade high-tech << in bundle 513
 513  6255 23-Oct-1993 WADDELL@delphi.  Re: TML nightly: Msgs 6216-6224 V63#4 <
 513  6256 27-Oct-1993 James T Perkins  Where is C-Shore BBS << A TMLer told me
 513  6257 17-Oct-1993 Mark Richard De  Re: Traveller (old): Questions << [Cull
 513  6258 27-Oct-1993 mgood@MIT.EDU    Combat and Erratta << Hi!

------------------------------

Bundle: 513
Archive-Message-Number: 6241
From: rancke@diku.dk
Subject: Handmade high-tech
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 03:08:54 +0100 (MET)

I''m currently detailing a tech 4 civilization where I've decided that the
limiting factor is not economics or knowledge, but a near-religious
philosophical abhorrence of factories and mass-produced items. These people
wouldn't object to televisions, grav cars or space ships  -  provided they
were handmade!

Consequently I've decided that 90% of all consumer goods are tech 3, 9% is
tech 4, 9/10th of one percent is tech 5, and 1/10th of one percent is tech
6. Question: Does this sound like a reasonable distribution?

It seems to me that some tech 6 (and by no means all of it) is the highest
that would be economically feasible. A master gunsmith might make a living
making a few submachineguns per year. Noone is going to make a career out
of manufacturing one jet-plane per decade.

However, there exist a large leasured class (a landed gentry) that often
make high-tech items as a hobby. These squires might devote a decade to
making one single impressive item.

So my main question is this: Given that you have a large income, can buy
most tech 4-5 items ready-made, can hire assistants for scut-work, has
tech 15 knowledge available, and are willing to devote a couple of hours a
day for a decade to the project, what kind of interesting high-tech items
might you be able to produce? What would be beyond you? Same question for
familiy projects, ie. several family members working on one project over
several generations (this culture is over 2000 years old and very stable).
Would you be able to build a spaceship? Or even a starship?



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Bundle: 513
Archive-Message-Number: 6242
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 93 10:06:58 -0500
From: surman@vortex.lgs.lsu.edu (Michael A. Surman)
Subject: 3D Space Displayed

Here's an idea I was working on to display 3D space.

	Material: One 4'x8' sheet of pegboard cut in half to yield
			two 4'x4' sheets.
		  Four eyehooks
		  Heavy string
		  Thread
		  Numerous little colored balls of various sizes.

Place the eyehooks into the ceiling. Attach one of the sheets of
pegboard to the eyehooks with the heavy string and a few feet lower
attach the other pegboard sheet.

The lower pegboard is the base XY plane at Z of 0. I used a scale of
one parsec between holes and a similar distance for the Z scale for
interstellar distances. Roughly one inch between holes which yields
a 48x48x48 parsec cube of space.

The numerous little colored balls of various sizes represent the stars
of varying stellar class and size. Use the thread for the Z-axis and
cut to the appropriate length.

Hang the threaded balls from the upper pegboard sheet for the positive
coordinates and from the lower sheet for the negative coordinates.

Now you have a pretty good picture of 3D space! And for added visual
effect use black thread and fluorescent paints for the stars. Turn out
the lights and illuminate with a black light to get a really neat
display!

To convince your spouse that this isn't permanent you can hang some
plants from the hooks when your gaming buddies aren't around! ;-)


Mike
surman@vortex.lgs.lsu.edu


------------------------------

Bundle: 513
Archive-Message-Number: 6243
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 00:06:37 -0500
From: Steven Owens <uso01@mailhost.unidata.com>
Subject: 3D Space


Jo Jaquinta (I think) said:
>    _Space is big_ Really big. A small 10x10x10 parsec cube, what I had

	Ah... been reading the _Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy_
series again, have we? :-)

	But getting to my reason for this post;  all of this activity
about 3D space and 3D space combat, etc, has reminded me of one of my
on-going projects.  Can anybody provide me with some suggestions for
an interesting space war combat system for a text-based interface?

	I hang out on a MUD called LambdaMOO, a nifty place with
extensive embedded programming capabilities.  Great place to make nifty
little multi-player games and such.  A while ago I coded a simple (in
game mechanics) but sophisticated (in underlying computing) space war
game.  Changes to the server broke some of the code, and now I'm looking
at new directions to go in before I rewrite it.

	The old game has very rudimentary game mechanics, Still, it
was a lot of fun at times.  The display was a simple listing of ships
and their coordinates, and you targeted ships by name (shooting at
where they are now) and fired photon torpedoes and warped by entering
destination coordinates.  Another player built a crewman that could
pilot and target in response to "spoken" commands, which created an
interesting atmosphere, much like naval combat, or traveller, or
star trek.

	Now I'm looking at redesigning and recoding the system. I'm
tempted to go the same route - use 3D coordinates but have a smart
interface ("crewmen") to hide the number crunching from the player.
But I'm wondering about other alternatives.  Suggestions?

Steven J. Owens
uso01@unidata.com

------------------------------

Bundle: 513
Archive-Message-Number: 6244
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1993 23:53:55 -0500
From: Steven Owens <uso01@mailhost.unidata.com>
Subject: Glisten Habitat


>>Other questions; How old is the habitat?  what is the history of
>>construction (I though each ring of habitats would have been built outside
>>the previous ones). What abnormalities of everyday life do the people
>>living there face?  Could this have given rise to some odd customs or
>>habits?
>
> Recommended reading:
>	- "Rendezvous with Rama" by Arthur C. Clarke
>		If you haven't read it, the story deals with a human
> expedition exploring a huge alien habitat that has entered the Solar
> System.
>	- "Starhammer" by Christopher ??I can't remember the last name??

	Christopher Rowley.  I found this section of the book to be quite
fascinating.  I probably would have enjoyed it quite well if it had never
left the habitat.  Drat, now I have to go find a copy and reread it...

	I'd also recommend Vaccum Flowers, Steel Beach, and the whole
Paratwa series (Liege Killer, Ash Ock, The Royal Caste - don't let the
cover on Liege Killer fool you, it's a typical SF cover-has-very-little-
to-do-with-the-inside situation.  Kept me from reading it for quite some
time...).  Unfortunately, my memory seems to have deserted me, as I cannot
remember anything about the author's names, except my hazy memory insists
that they're first names are all "Christopher" :-) Oh, wait, some of it
comes back to me...

	The Paratwa series is set in various space habitats, with one
or two side trips to the ruined, desolate Earth.  Basically involves
some heavy suspense/thriller stuff with genetically engineered paired
assassins (telepathically linked, one mind with two bodies).  Fun stuff.
The author actually is named Christopher something-or-other, I think.

	Vaccum Flowers, by Michael Swanwick, takes place on various
habitats.  Portrays an interesting solar system with a well-developed
culture, but almost no planetary settlements.  Various habitats in
near-earth orbit, cometary habitats, etc.  Lots of focus on
personality reprogramming (i.e. skill-augmenting wetware, and
artificial personalities you load into your wetware - a much different
slant than Effinger's _When Gravity Fails_).

	Schismatrix, by Bruce Sterling, takes place almost entirely in
different sorts of habitats (and what doesn't take place in habitats
takes place in spaceships).

	Steel Beach, by John Varley, takes place entirely inside a lunar
colony that has been around a while.

	Ophiuchi Hotline, by John Varley, I think.  Set somewhat after
Steel Beach (although published before).  A good read, takes place in
various lunar colonies, asteroids, space stations.  By the way, it's
pronounced Off-ee-yoo-ki.

Steven J. Owens
uso01@unidata.com

------------------------------

Bundle: 513
Archive-Message-Number: 6245
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 00:11:56 -0500
From: Steven Owens <uso01@mailhost.unidata.com>
Subject: 3D Space


Jo Jaquinta (I think) said:
>    _Space is big_ Really big. A small 10x10x10 parsec cube, what I had

	Ah... been reading the _Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy_
series again, have we? :-)

	But getting to my reason for this post;  all of this activity
about 3D space and 3D space combat, etc, has reminded me of one of my
on-going projects.  Can anybody provide me with some suggestions for
an interesting space war combat system for a text-based interface?

	I hang out on a MUD called LambdaMOO, a nifty place with
extensive embedded programming capabilities.  Great place to make nifty
little multi-player games and such.  A while ago I coded a simple (in
game mechanics) but sophisticated (in underlying computing) space war
game.  Changes to the server broke some of the code, and now I'm looking
at new directions to go in before I rewrite it.

	The old game has very rudimentary game mechanics, Still, it
was a lot of fun at times.  The display was a simple listing of ships
and their coordinates, and you targeted ships by name (shooting at
where they are now) and fired photon torpedoes and warped by entering
destination coordinates.  Another player built a crewman that could
pilot and target in response to "spoken" commands, which created an
interesting atmosphere, much like naval combat, or traveller, or
star trek.

	Now I'm looking at redesigning and recoding the system. I'm
tempted to go the same route - use 3D coordinates but have a smart
interface ("crewmen") to hide the number crunching from the player.
But I'm wondering about other alternatives.  Suggestions?

Steven J. Owens
uso01@unidata.com

------------------------------

Bundle: 513
Archive-Message-Number: 6246
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 16:27:10 -0500
From: dghall@students.wisc.edu (David G. Hall, so who's asking?)
Subject: Re: Fun things to do in Zero-G

>From: Gerret Peters <GMP93003%UCONNVM.bitnet@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu>
>
>With regards to the 0-G uses of the center of the asteroid city:
>
>1) Entertainment.  All sorts of people would revel in being able to throw
>off gravity for a while and enjoy some 0-G activity.  Nullgrav versions of
>all major sports would probably be possible, such as 0-G football. (and you
>think they have trouble on a planar field! ;) )  Even low-gravity portions
>of the ring could be used for entertainment, most notably in the area of
>hang-gliding type sports. It would take a long time to come down, and the fall
>probably wouldn't kill you if you fell...  (On the seamier side, 0-G brothels.
> ......) :|

Several different sorts of SF stories (most recently cyberpunk) have
suggested idea for stuff to do in O'Neill-type colonies, which would have
centers much like your big ring.  I've seen hang gliding on Gibson's work
and also in some recent short stories.

What I'm curious about is, what other ideas people have seen for zero-g
recreation?  Seems to me it could be kinda interesting to make up a list of
whatever people might think of or have seen, and then turn it into a
"Imperial Zero-G Sports Catalog", as a nice fleshing out of the oft-ignored
recreation aspect of role-playing.  After all, think of what your players
would think if the next time they hit a belt station they get to choose
what sort of goofing off they do -- and just think of the opportunites for
weird patron encounters...


>  (Having just returned from a Paintball excursion, I'm wondering if there
>mightn't be some sort of semi-combat 0-G version of capture the flag?)

For an actual description of what sort of combat training you could do in
zero-g, I'd recommend the first half of _Ender's Game_ by Orson Scott
Card...
(anybody seen other such ideas, as well?)

                                        DGH
                                        and the latter half, for that matter
+-----+-----+-----+-----+===========^-++-^===========+-----+-----+-----+-----+
David Hall                              dghall@students.wisc.edu
Political Science/Philosophy/           dhall@macc.wisc.edu
        Whatever Else They Let Me Take, hah!
709 S. Brooks St, Madison, WI, 53715-1805
"Wherever you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Bonzai


------------------------------

Bundle: 513
Archive-Message-Number: 6247
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 16:30:00 -0500
From: dghall@students.wisc.edu (David G. Hall, so who's asking?)
Subject: Re: Displaying 3-D in 2-D

        On the question of displaying a 3-D star map in 2-D:

        I remember National Geographic putting out some pretty nice looking
star maps and even galactic maps using a system similar to one somebody has
mentioned.  They had a large circle laid out on the paper, but tilted at an
angle so that it looked like a long ellipse, i.e. as if you were looking at
it from 45 degrees off of the Z-axis.  Then they had stars marked in space
by placing them above the right location on the circular reference grid,
and altitude marked by using a line running down to a spot on the circular
plane.

The neat thing about this was that you could see both some semblance of
real distance in space, since "high" stars were further up on the page, and
"low" stars were further down, and right was right and left was left; but
you could also see where they were on a 2-D view because the line running
down from the star marked a spot on the 2-D ellipse/circle.

Of course, while this made a neat visual presentation (IMHO), I wouldn't
have to write the code to display it like that.  Not that it would be so
incredibly nasty, just that I have this distaste for any trig/geometry that
involves more than two transforms.   And I'll bet dollars to plasma guns
that Nat'l Geo hired somebody outside their regular cartography department
to do it, too...


                                        DGH
                                        glad to be back on TML
                                        after an absence of many years

+-----+-----+-----+-----+===========^-++-^===========+-----+-----+-----+-----+
David Hall                              dghall@students.wisc.edu
Political Science/Philosophy/           dhall@macc.wisc.edu
        Whatever Else They Let Me Take, hah!
709 S. Brooks St, Madison, WI, 53715-1805
"Wherever you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Bonzai


------------------------------

Bundle: 513
Archive-Message-Number: 6248
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 16:30:00 -0500
From: dghall@students.wisc.edu (David G. Hall, so who's asking?)
Subject: Re: Displaying 3-D in 2-D

        On the question of displaying a 3-D star map in 2-D:

        I remember National Geographic putting out some pretty nice looking
star maps and even galactic maps using a system similar to one somebody has
mentioned.  They had a large circle laid out on the paper, but tilted at an
angle so that it looked like a long ellipse, i.e. as if you were looking at
it from 45 degrees off of the Z-axis.  Then they had stars marked in space
by placing them above the right location on the circular reference grid,
and altitude marked by using a line running down to a spot on the circular
plane.

The neat thing about this was that you could see both some semblance of
real distance in space, since "high" stars were further up on the page, and
"low" stars were further down, and right was right and left was left; but
you could also see where they were on a 2-D view because the line running
down from the star marked a spot on the 2-D ellipse/circle.

Of course, while this made a neat visual presentation (IMHO), I wouldn't
have to write the code to display it like that.  Not that it would be so
incredibly nasty, just that I have this distaste for any trig/geometry that
involves more than two transforms.   And I'll bet dollars to plasma guns
that Nat'l Geo hired somebody outside their regular cartography department
to do it, too...


                                        DGH
                                        glad to be back on TML
                                        after an absence of many years

+-----+-----+-----+-----+===========^-++-^===========+-----+-----+-----+-----+
David Hall                              dghall@students.wisc.edu
Political Science/Philosophy/           dhall@macc.wisc.edu
        Whatever Else They Let Me Take, hah!
709 S. Brooks St, Madison, WI, 53715-1805
"Wherever you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Bonzai


------------------------------

Bundle: 513
Archive-Message-Number: 6249
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 18:25:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: AMNUSS@delphi.com
Subject: MTJ4


The Zho's were betten up by the Primordials.  These are the same race
mentioned in the MT adventure Knightfall.  The Primordials (according to
DGP) predate the Ancients.

DGP covered the Primordias physiology, psychology, ships, and the war with
the Zhodani.  You know, REF STUFF.

Alan

------------------------------

Bundle: 513
Archive-Message-Number: 6250
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 08:50:00 +1000
From: pihlab@cbr.hhcs.gov.au
Subject: TNE Combat


TNE Combat just doesn't work right.

I've had a few game sessions now involving combat and there is
something seriously wrong with the weapon penetrations.

Why won't my snub pistol firing HE or HEAP penetrate the simplest
form of body armour (ie 1 point bullet proof vest) after all that's
what HEAP was developed for the pistol to do.

I tried the variations (instant knockdown on head/chest wound, stunned
from first scratch, inflict enough wounds to reduce initiative to zero,
roll d10 or d20) but none of it works.

The weapons just don't do any damage.

In one case I shot the guy 5 times and he just kept shooting me.  In
frustration I did a flying kick (successfully) and knocked the guy
down.  Wow, I did more damage by kicking him than I had done with
5 HEAP bullets fired (and hitting) at point blank range.

The tables are WRONG.  I tried some variations to make the tables
work but they don't.

I like the rest of the game but I just can't come to grips with this
combat system any more.

Can somebody post some sample firefights (and calculations) with a
variety of weapons to show me that I'm not reading the rules right
or where I'm going wrong?


Bruce...        pihlab@cbr.hhcs.gov.au

"If you swallow a live frog first thing in the morning ...
 Nothing worse will happen to either of you for the rest of the day."

*******************************************************************
* Bruce Pihlamae  --  Database Administration                     *
* Commonwealth Department of Health, Housing & Community Services *
* Canberra, Australia                             (W) 06-289-7056 *
*******************************************************************
* These are my own thoughts and opinions, few that I have.        *
*******************************************************************



------------------------------

Bundle: 513
Archive-Message-Number: 6251
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 11:38:55 EDT
From: davis@licre.ludwig.edu.au
Subject: 3-D displays

Hello all.  I've been reading the list with interest.  I'm a DnD'er who is
interested in leaving what has become a bit of a jaded campaign and heading
for the stars.  Spelljammer just wasn't quite it, I'm afraid.  Now, if only
I could find some classic Traveller in the shops here...

Anyway, my contribution for what it's worth:

David Hall writes:
>        I remember National Geographic putting out some pretty nice looking
>star maps and even galactic maps using a system similar to one somebody has
>mentioned.  They had a large circle laid out on the paper, but tilted at an
>angle so that it looked like a long ellipse, i.e. as if you were looking at
>it from 45 degrees off of the Z-axis.  Then they had stars marked in space
>by placing them above the right location on the circular reference grid,
>and altitude marked by using a line running down to a spot on the circular
>plane.

A similar device was used in the computer game "Elite," although it was
used to track other ships in 3-D space.  This was very useful and corrected
with pitching and yawing of the ship, so that you were always oriented with
respect to the other ships who had you in their sights.  It was not
particularly useful for gauging distances, but it seems to me that this
sort of thing is certainly amenable to fixed stars and could well be
adapted.  We already use a PC for our games simply for ease of rolling dice
and running the mechanics of large NPC companies, so adding something like
this if it were available would fit in easily.  I'm not a computer guru,
though, so it will have to be up to somebody else out there!

I now return to list-lurking and return you to your regularly scheduled
programme of informed correspondents.

Ian Davis                                     davis@licre.ludwig.edu.au

------------------------------

Bundle: 513
Archive-Message-Number: 6252
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 08:35:33 +1000
From: pihlab@cbr.hhcs.gov.au
Subject: Re: 3D Mapping


3D mapping was discussed some time ago and somebody then pointed
out that the 2D Traveller maps just weren't showing all systems
but just the interesting ones.

If you take the 2D map in this light then you can treat JUMP
drive as a 2D mechanism.  I tinkered with this idea back then
and came up with some basic assumptions.

The Traveller 2D maps are simply a 3D universe squashed flat and
only showing interesting systems.

A JUMP can only travel it's JUMP rating in 2D but in the 3D
universe the source and destination may also be vast distances
apart in a vertical direction.  This vertical distance does NOT
affect the 2D distance that can be travelled.

If two or more interesting systems do end up in the same 2D map
location then you still would need to JUMP (for a week) to get
to each system from any other system in that hex.

What this tells me about the Traveller universe is that their are
either very few star systems and most are interesting or that
their may be many star systems that are not shown because they are
not interesting.  A uninteresting star system in the Traveller
universe would have to be totally devoid of matter other than
the star(s) themselves and therefore not worth mapping or
visiting(?).

To map this type of Universe in 2D all you need is larger hexes.

If you take a sub-sector map and increase it's size so that each
hex contains 7 hexes (a centre and six around it - call it a super
hex) then you can map each of these vertical matching locations into
one of the hexes in the super hex.

If a super hex of 7 hexes is not enough then the next size up is 19
lesser hexes to a super hex.  Scale your universe to suite the density
of stars you prefer.

What do you think?

Bruce...        pihlab@cbr.hhcs.gov.au

"If you swallow a live frog first thing in the morning ...
 Nothing worse will happen to either of you for the rest of the day."

*******************************************************************
* Bruce Pihlamae  --  Database Administration                     *
* Commonwealth Department of Health, Housing & Community Services *
* Canberra, Australia                             (W) 06-289-7056 *
*******************************************************************
* These are my own thoughts and opinions, few that I have.        *
*******************************************************************


------------------------------

Bundle: 513
Archive-Message-Number: 6253
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 2:41:32 GMT
From: RJR96326@vax1.utulsa.edu
Subject: 5 responses

This may be a little brief because I have little time to respond to the
past two digests.

1: Handmade High-tech: where do you draw the line? Some of the parts required
to build more advanced and efficient machinery simply MUST be manufactured? Is
it alright if it's powered by 'natural' fctories, like a mill that uses a
water wheel? I can tell you how a jet turbine works, but I wouldn't know what
to build it out of to accept the streeses--and you might not be able to make the
alloys without a masive foundry (which is a kind of factory). You need to be
more discriminating in your definition. But it's a good idea.

2: Near Stars: I would be very interested in an Excel version of the list.
Please send it to me at:
	RJR96326@VAX1.Utulsa.edu
Provided of course it doesn't take up some obscene amount of space. I can
probably handle about 750K without deleting all the other stuff I have.

3: 0-G cargo. Well, no, it doesn't get easier to move. You still have all that
mass to shove around. On Earth, you fight the the force pulling it down
(Gravity) but in space you're just as likely to push yourself farther than the
box you're pushing.

4:Z-coordinates: James vassilakos said there was difficulty when two stars
occupy the same Z-coordinate on a 3D map. I think he meant the same XY
coordinates; identical Z-coordinates would put them on the same page. If they're
on the same XY coordinates, one's right beneath the other, which would indeed
make it hard to spot on a series of transparencies.

5:Armor penetration: I can understand HE not penetrating well, especially if
it blows up on impact. HEAP, I agree, should burn right through armor.

As for lasers, let's discuss armor. Kevlar is made up of a ballistic weave, like
a big quilt. When something blunt (a bat, a bullet) hits it, it spreads the
damage out over a greater surface area, dispersing it in a way. However, as a
weave, it is very susceptible to impaling attacks, like knive and lasers (which
are pretty thin). I would ignore the armor rating againt laser for any armor
based on such a weave (though hard armor, like a battlesuit, should have full
protection).


J Roberson

------------------------------

Bundle: 513
Archive-Message-Number: 6254
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 93 12:25:07 EDT
From: Dan's Traveller Mailing List Mail <tml@engrg.uwo.ca>
Subject: Re: Handmade high-tech



in bundle 513 message 6241 on Oct 26 20:34:46 rancke@diku.dk     said:
>
> wouldn't object to televisions, grav cars or space ships  -  provided they
> were handmade!
>
I think one would have to know what your definition of hand made was.
I believe there is a car manufacturer in the south U.S. that hand
manufactures limos (Blackhawk?). In this case all parts are indivdually
fitted, milled, etc. But using a drill press or a lathe isn't really
hand made is it?

> making a few submachineguns per year. Noone is going to make a career out
> of manufacturing one jet-plane per decade.

If I could make a jet by myself (or with a small crew of assistants) in
a decade, with cash up front, and contuation money, plus a large
completion bonus. Then as long as I was making at least a average
wage, then why not?

>
> So my main question is this: Given that you have a large income, can buy
> most tech 4-5 items ready-made, can hire assistants for scut-work, has
> tech 15 knowledge available, and are willing to devote a couple of hours a
> day for a decade to the project, what kind of interesting high-tech items
> might you be able to produce? What would be beyond you? Same question for
> familiy projects, ie. several family members working on one project over
> several generations (this culture is over 2000 years old and very stable).
> Would you be able to build a spaceship? Or even a starship?
>
I don't think that any electronic components could be hand made.
(depending on your definition). It would be pretty hard to even make
vacuum tubes by hand (which of course includes televisions). A lot
of modern machinery also requires fairly tight tolerances. The pistons
in your car have to be almost perfectly cylindrical. These are hard
to do without some level of machinery.

I think that this type of culture is interesting, however. What happens
to visitors to the planet? How could you tell by casual inspection
that a gun was mass-produced, not hand made?

			-Dan

Dan Corrin, Network Manager, Mechanical Engineering, UWO, London, Ontario
InterNet: dan@engrg.uwo.ca.                                (519) 661-3834
TML/CZ/FrameUsers/Consim FTP site: ftp.engrg.uwo.ca (129.100.100.12)

------------------------------

Bundle: 513
Archive-Message-Number: 6255
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1993 20:50:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: WADDELL@delphi.com
Subject: Re: TML nightly: Msgs 6216-6224 V63#4

RE:3-D Traveller

[Forwarded to TML broadcast address, traveller@engrg.uwo.ca.  Autorply
came to traveller-request, natch - James]

Actually, the hardest part is the initial mapping of the 3-D Sector.  Your
players and you only need to remember a simple rule to calculate distances
during play.  Take all the distance of the longer axis and half of the
distance of the two shorter axes.  Total all three numbers and you have the
distance between the two worlds.

While not accurate to any decimal places it gives a "good enough for
government work" figure that you can use.  You do not need access to a
computer and most

amers are capable of simple addition and subtraction.

Later,

Waddell@Delphi.com

------------------------------

Bundle: 513
Archive-Message-Number: 6256
Subject: Where is C-Shore BBS
Reply-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Administrator)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 93 09:32:55 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@sp-eug.com>

A TMLer told me that the C-Shore BBS (one of the TML archive sites) is
no longer around.  Does anyone know what became of it, new phone
numbers, etc.?

James

__   __/         /   /	    Internet Traveller Mailing List, Administrator
    /     /  /  /   /	   James T. Perkins in Eugene, Oregon, USA
 __/   __/__/__/ _____/   traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca

------------------------------

Bundle: 513
Archive-Message-Number: 6257
From: mdewis@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au (Mark Richard Dewis)
Subject: Re: Traveller (old): Questions
Date: 17 Oct 93 13:59:09 GMT

[Culled from USENET's rec.games.frp.misc in one of my infrequent scans
for traveller material -- James]

In article <29pg9b$n2u@hamblin.math.byu.edu>, kkl@bert.cs.byu.edu (Kenneth K Li) writes:
>
>I have just aquire a copy of the (old, 1983) Traveller starter edition.
>Since I haven't played traveller before (In my whole 14 years of
>RPGing). I find it very interesting (It do expend my imagination). But
>find a few questions on the game.
>
>1) Do that game have experience and growth on characters?? I could find
>that on the rules...

Heh.  The ongoing experience rules of old Traveller were always a
point of annoyance.  The trouble was that the authors apparently
didn't want characters picking up skills in play quicker than during
character generation (i.e: 1-4 per four year term).  Basically, you
may embark on a period of self-improvement of four years duration;
this can be physical or skills based. If physical, you increase
each of STR, DEX and END for the period on a roll of 8+ (+2 if
INT 8-, +4 if INT 5-). At the end of the period, or if training is
interrupted for 3 months or more, the stats revert back.

For skills, the four year period can be used to raise either one
gun and one blade, or two non-weapon skills by one, for the
duration of the four years on a roll of 8+ (no mods).  If a further
four years was spent, the skill increases became permanent.

I will be honest, and say that I never saw a character successfully
last eight games years in the eight or so real time years I played
the 1977 and 1981 editions of Traveller.  In practice many groups
worked out house rules for skill improvement or simply got used
to static characters.  GDW finally provided better experience rules
in Megatraveller, but even these I found to be cumbersome and
frustrating.  One of the delights of TNE is that the scale of skill
levels has shifted (x2 or x3), allowing a skill improvement system
that lets the players learn on the job.

>2) Is there still alot of people playing it??

I believe so, but even though I have a lot of nostalgia for 1st and
2nd Edition Traveller (1977 & 1981 - I never saw Starter Traveller,
so I'm not sure what minor changes it has over the 1981 books) the
rules have their problems.
>
>3) How is it compared to Traveller a new Era, somebody say that
>MegaTraveller is not good, and Traveller is a classic, I believe it so.
>And after reading it, it is a very good system, I like all the formulars
>in it, which is logical (as a CS master student) and I like that stuff.

MegaTrav's biggest problem was an appalling typo and omission rate.
>From a game point of view, it was an attempt to integrate ten years
of Traveller development without changing too much.  Character
generation was improved quite constructively; the old combat system,
which was quick and fun, but badly flawed in its treatment of armour
(cf. D&D Armour Classes), was replaced by a modified version of the
miniatures rules.  Starship construction became hellishly complicated
as an attempt was made to combine _all_ vehicular construction into
one sequence.

The game was also firmly tied to the Rebellion background; wheras
the old rules were pretty much generic (unto themselves :) and
only brought GDW's house universe in with the supplemental material.
(I _had_ no supplements for the first two years I played ;)

Traveller: the New Era is pretty much a clean break from the old
mechanics and rules, but I feel it recaptures a lot of the feel
of the pre-MegaTraveller game.  If you like clean, logical mechanics,
you should like it.  Try before you buy, however; if you are happy
with the old style of Traveller, there is no real reason to switch,
particularly if you want to avoid the more modern incarnations of
the default background (which has moved from very vague to very
specific)

>--- Kenneth ---
>
Mark Dewis, old Traveller from the Marches.
- --

mdewis@pieman.compserv.utas.edu.au ... but you can call me Mark.
Forma Propositum Perpetuo Praecedit.

------------------------------

Bundle: 513
Archive-Message-Number: 6258
From: mgood@MIT.EDU
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 93 15:47:30 -0400
Subject: Combat and Erratta

Hi!

I received the BL and TNE erratta today.  I'll type them up and post it to
the list tomorrow.

About combat:

Penetration: There are a couple of things missing from the
explaination of penetration.  Here's a quick fix:

Divide the penetration value by the damage value of the round.
This is your penetration factor.  The penetration factor
is the number of dice of damage you lose for each level of armor
it tries to penetrate.

About combat damage:  Loren Wiseman (sp?) suggested these fixes:
Use d10 or d20 for damage dice instead of d6.  Make the auto-kill
rule automatic.  He alos posted a long rationale for why the
combat system was less lethal.

On a personal note, does anyone have a copy of the Ahzanti High Lighting
Tech Manual that they could send me a photocopy of?  I'd be happy
to compensate you for your trouble.  Also, as a quick fox.
that is, as a quick fix, can someone tell me what the stats for
the gunboat on a AZH class ship were?  I can't find this info in
Arrival Vengance.

Matt

------------------------------
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by the University of
Western Ontario. All opinions and materials below are the responsibility
of the originator.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 514  6259 27-Oct-1993 james vassilako  3D Maps / In favor of the software appr
 514  6260 28-Oct-1993 Adrian Hurt      Re: Hand-made high tech << Dan's Travel
 514  6261 28-Oct-1993 Scott S. Kellog  Hand Made Tech << Hmm!
 514  6262 28-Oct-1993 rancke@diku.dk   Handmade high-tech << > From: RJR96326@
 514  6263 28-Oct-1993 C. Harald Koch   Re: awarding experience << > Heh.  The
 514  6264 28-Oct-1993 The Flynnman     TNE-Publications << Greetings Sentients
 514  6266 28-Oct-1993 David Johnson -  Armour and combat etc. << Hi,
 514  6267 28-Oct-1993 David Johnson -  Computer aid traveller << Is there a co
 514  6268 28-Oct-1993 James T Perkins  Re: Computer aid traveller  << David Jo
 514  6269 28-Oct-1993 Kerry Harrison   TNE-Publications << Flynn,
 514  6270 29-Oct-1993 JAMES PERKINS    testing << hello
 514  6271 29-Oct-1993 James Perkins    Re: Handmade high-tech  << Dan? writes:
 514  6272 29-Oct-1993 Mike Basinger    Sub sector sheet uploaded << I have upl
 514  6273 29-Oct-1993 Glenn Myers      3-D plots and BL Questions << Hi all:
 514  6274 29-Oct-1993 james vassilako  3D Maps / defining one possible softwar
 514  6275 29-Oct-1993 Jeff Zeitlin     Handmade tech? (63:8) << TA::>So my mai
 514  6265 28-Oct-1993 mgood@MIT.EDU    TNE Errata from GDW << This errata is f


------------------------------

Bundle: 514
Archive-Message-Number: 6259
From: james vassilakos <jimv@ucrengr.ucr.edu>
Subject: 3D Maps / In favor of the software approach
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 21:54:56 -0700 (PDT)


J Roberson (RJR96326@vax1.utulsa.edu) writes:
> Z-coordinates: James vassilakos said there was difficulty when two stars
> occupy the same Z-coordinate on a 3D map. I think he meant the same XY
> coordinates; identical Z-coordinates would put them on the same page. If
> they're on the same XY coordinates, one's right beneath the other, which
> would indeed make it hard to spot on a series of transparencies.

Yikes! Yes, thanks for the correction. Two stars on the same Z-axis was
what I meant. A while back a very short-lived SF-RPG named Universe
came out, and it had (for its time), the very best near star map in
three dimensions. I often think that it's unfortuate that the publishers
didn't release the game in the "little black book" format which
Classic Traveller is known for. Certainly, they could have probably
attracted the attention of numerous Traveller players that way. But
that's beside the point.

Anyway, they semi-solved the two-stars/one-z-axis problem by having
one dot with two names and two z-coordinates. Of course, just imagine
the difficulties should every discrete z-coordinate between the top
of the map and the bottom be occupied by a set of stars with the same
XY coordinate. You'd have a map-makers nightmare.

But, as difficult as this problem is for the astrographer, it's
even worse for the programmer. We have to envision the problem
beforehand and find a solution without ever knowing what the
data set looks like. In other words, we have to solve for all
cases.

This is probably a key reason 2d maps are so popular. They just plain
easier to work with. But, you have to admit, there's something very
SFy about looking at a 3d starmap as opposed to a 2d one. 3d maps
give you a sense of a *really big* universe out there. 2d maps look
too much like settlements on a planetary surface. They aren't nearly
as neat to look at. They don't make you *feel* like you're really
in space.

This is why I think a rotable 3d map on a computer would be the ideal
solution, but I know of no programs (even non-ftpable ones) which will
fully satisfy the requirements at hand.

1. 3d/rotatable (obviously)
2. display name of the star-system beside the identifier on the map,
   legibly, semi-regardless of the user's point of perspective.
3. use color and size to further distinguish stellar/system features.
4. incorporate an adjustable cartesian grid with numbering displayed.
5. IBM executable (assume SVGA or better)
6. Input data stored in TEXT file (this is important, because we need
   to be able to write simple programs to generate this data, and it
   would be nice to be able to hand-modify it with choice of editor).

Anyway, that would be the sort of 3d map viewer I'd pick up if there
were any immediately available (ftp or otherwise). Unfortunately, I don't
believe that any exist which meet even half of these requirements
(well, I suppose ACAD meets *half* of the requirements, but certainly
not all of them). Anyway, if any of you distinguished programmers
decide that you want to make a project out of this problem, please
consider the above before you set down to coding.

           _   /|       Jim Vassilakos
           \`o_O'       jimv@ucrengr.ucr.edu
             ( )        jimv@silver.lcs.mit.edu
              U         jimv@wizards.com
           Aachk!       (USA) 909-864-3814


------------------------------

Bundle: 514
Archive-Message-Number: 6260
From: adrian@cee.hw.ac.uk (Adrian Hurt)
Subject: Re: Hand-made high tech
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 9:20:41 WET

Dan's Traveller Mailing List Mail <tml@engrg.uwo.ca> writes:
>
> I think one would have to know what your definition of hand made was.
> I believe there is a car manufacturer in the south U.S. that hand
> manufactures limos (Blackhawk?). In this case all parts are indivdually
> fitted, milled, etc. But using a drill press or a lathe isn't really
> hand made is it?

I assume this society does allow the use of tools, otherwise they wouldn't
have progressed past the Stone Age.  In fact, they wouldn't have even made
it into the Stone Age!  Using a flint knife isn't really hand made, is it?
:-)

If the objection to mass-production is philosophical, what they may demand
is that an individual - or even a single group - be responsible for the
entire production of a given item.  And the maker(s) will take some pride
in their product, to the extent of embellishing it a little - signing it,
decorating it, or in some other way adding an organic touch.

> I think that this type of culture is interesting, however. What happens
> to visitors to the planet? How could you tell by casual inspection
> that a gun was mass-produced, not hand made?

Is it just a bland piece of metal?  Or does it have lots of nice, ornate
engravings on it?  Take a look at some old flintlocks, made in the days
when guns were handmade.  The gunsmith probably signed it, either in
writing or with his own brand of decoration.  Of course, a machine could
be made which produced suitably engraved parts, but most places wouldn't
bother.  The customs inspector is likely to say something like "Ooh, that
looks nice, definitely a personal touch there, right it's O.K.", or
alternatively "How boring, that's the thousandth one of those I've seen,
all the same, just drop it in that litter bin over there." :-)

- --
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cee
 UUCP: ..!uknet!cee.hw.ac.uk!adrian  |  ARPA:  adrian@cee.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Bundle: 514
Archive-Message-Number: 6261
From: skellogg@lonestar.utsa.edu (Scott S. Kellogg)
Subject: Hand Made Tech
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 9:47:35 CDT

Hmm!

An interesting question from Hans.

On the subject of hand made jets, I would point out that
(according to CNN's Sci & Tech Week) there is now avaiable
a kit built jet for the kit plane builders out there.

The main problem I think would be that the maintainance for
such a plane would be rediculous.  Without pre-made replacement
parts for every 100 hrs of flight, you would be in for a LOT of
down time.

As to the ability to hand make stuff, it depends on your definition
of hand made.  Your TL 3 tools would be hand made.  With those tools
one makes TL 4 tools.  With those, one proceeds to make TL 5 tools,
6...7...?  With your philosophical preference for hand made stuff,
sounds like a crew of craftsmen who would be very protective of
their tools (They'd have to be to build the planes, TV sets (starships)
you seem to want them too.)

But, would your definition of hand made allow them to use a tool
(machine?) that would grow silicon chips?  Would it allow them to use
a tool (machine?) that would allow them to etch a silicon chip?
All one is doing is using a very sophisticated tool.  It is not a
"Factory", but is it a tool, or a machine?

I would say tho, that up until TL 6 or so, almost every prototype of
anything is hand made.  Guns, planes, trains, automobiles and
battleships.
- --
Scott 2G Kellogg
"I'm marrying you for your body."  -- 2G Scott's Fiancee


------------------------------

Bundle: 514
Archive-Message-Number: 6262
From: rancke@diku.dk
Subject: Handmade high-tech
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 16:56:36 +0100 (MET)

> From: RJR96326@vax1.utulsa.edu

>Handmade High-tech: where do you draw the line? Some of the parts required
>to build more advanced and efficient machinery simply MUST be manufactured?
>Is it alright if it's powered by 'natural' factories, like a mill that uses
>a water wheel? I can tell you how a jet turbine works, but I wouldn't know
>what to build it out of to accept the streeses--and you might not be able
>to make the alloys without a masive foundry (which is a kind of factory).
>You need to be more discriminating in your definition. But it's a good idea.

One of the nice things about this definition is that it is applied by human
beings and is therefor not required to be consistent. If you asked them, the
Ajabarans would tell you that they couldn't give you an exact definition,
but that they would know a factory if they saw it. Anything like an
assembly line is out. I guess that the main factor would be the scale of
the enterprise. A blacksmith, OK. A small foundry, propably OK. A massive
foundry, propably not. Of course, that really ought to rule out a number of
low-tech stuff like ocean-going ships, but, as I said, people are not
required to be consistent.

> From: Dan's Traveller Mailing List Mail <tml@engrg.uwo.ca>
> Subject: Re: Handmade high-tech
>
>I think one would have to know what your definition of hand made was.
>I believe there is a car manufacturer in the south U.S. that hand
>manufactures limos (Blackhawk?). In this case all parts are indivdually
>fitted, milled, etc. But using a drill press or a lathe isn't really
>hand made is it?

I don't know what a drill press is, but using a lathe would be acceptable
(a handbuildt one, of course ;-).

>>making a few submachineguns per year. Noone is going to make a career out
>>of manufacturing one jet-plane per decade.
>
>If I could make a jet by myself (or with a small crew of assistants) in
>a decade, with cash up front, and contiuation money, plus a large
>completion bonus. Then as long as I was making at least a average
>wage, then why not?

If such a concept as money up front and continuation money existed, yes. I
hadn't thought about that possibility. I'll consider it. But what I had in
mind was craftsmen making stuff and getting their money when they sell it.

>I don't think that any electronic components could be hand made.
>(depending on your definition). It would be pretty hard to even make
>vacuum tubes by hand (which of course includes televisions). A lot
>of modern machinery also requires fairly tight tolerances. The pistons
>in your car have to be almost perfectly cylindrical. Tese are hard
>to do without some level of machinery.

Right. Some machinery is needed. What I had in mind was the kind of
machinery a late 19th Century goldsmith or weaponsmith would have
available. Perhaps the power source would be a good lithmus test. Any
hand-crancked machinery is allowable. But since I'd want people to be
able to use any high-tech they do manage to build, petrol, electricity,
and whatever must be acceptable as long as it is not used for further
manufacture.

Hmmm. It's a good thing consistency is not required, because there are
holes in that logic that you could drive a truck through...

Anyway, handmade means muscle-powered tools only, OK? And no assembly
lines, not even with only muscle power.

>I think that this type of culture is interesting, however. What happens
>to visitors to the planet?

That's what I want my players to find out some day ;-) They get treated to
anything from a cold shoulder to physical abuse, depending on the bigotry
of the native.

>How could you tell by casual inspection that a gun was mass-produced, not
>hand made?

Depends. With slugthrowers you might not be able to. OTOH I think that the
local craftsmen add a lot of individual flourishes to the ornamentation on
their guns. That's one of the effects I'm striving for: Submachineguns
with finely engraved battle scenes! And not two alike, of course.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Bundle: 514
Archive-Message-Number: 6263
From: chk@alias.com (C. Harald Koch)
Subject: Re: awarding experience
Date: 	Thu, 28 Oct 1993 13:59:43 -0400

> Heh.  The ongoing experience rules of old Traveller were always a
> point of annoyance.  The trouble was that the authors apparently
> didn't want characters picking up skills in play quicker than during
> character generation (i.e: 1-4 per four year term).

This has been a problem in many RPG systems that I've encountered.

In our current 2300 campaign, for example, we've been playing for almost 5
years. We get an "experience" point once per session, with bonuses at the
end of an adventure. Experience points are worth 1/2 of a "skill point" from
character generation; i.e. to buy up a skill from level three to level 4
your must put 4 experience points in.

Over the years, we've developed characters who are pretty god-like. My
current character, for example, now has 5 skills at level 4 (or better :-)
(2300 difficulty levels are 4 points apart; tasks are rolled on a linear
D10).

The problem is that the game was never designed to have characters with this
level of skill; we tend to walk rings around our opponents in the stock 2300
adventures. As a result, our DM is forced to do considerable extra work to
make things more challenging and interesting for us.

On the other hand, we probably wouldn't still be playing if this avenue for
imporvement didn't exist. I can't imagine still playing my "original"
unskilled, naive character...

So, here's my question:

What system do you all use in your campaigns to award experience to players?

- --
C. Harald Koch, Network Analyst | "We are sorry, but the number you have
Alias Research Inc. Toronto, ON |  dialed is imaginary. Please rotate your
chk@alias.com                   |  phone 90 degrees and try again."
chk@utcc.utoronto.ca            |-David Grabiner <grabiner@zariski.harvard.edu>

------------------------------

Bundle: 514
Archive-Message-Number: 6264
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 13:11:14 -0500
From: sco@po.cwru.edu (The Flynnman)
Subject: TNE-Publications

Greetings Sentients,

Would someone who knows possibly be able to post as to what all of the TNE
products that have been published to date are.  If possible can MSRP's be
included?  The reason I ask this is I keep hearing about this Arrival
Vengence thing and I think I missed something.

Flynn

- --
Sean C. O'Toole    | Theta Chi Fraternity | In Service to the Dragon Throne
Political Science  |   Beta Nu  Chapter   |        Flann mac Floinn
sco@po.CWRU.Edu    |   "Men Since 1856"   |        House Bean an Oir
Go POSC - xx087    | CWRU - Go Spartans!! |    Barony of  the Cleftlands
       "All I ask is for a tall ship, and a star to steer her by."



------------------------------

Bundle: 514
Archive-Message-Number: 6266
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 17:00 GMT0
From: David Johnson - CIX Staff <djohnson@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Armour and combat etc.
Reply-To: djohnson@cix.compulink.co.uk



Hi,
    reading through the rule book last night I saw some entries in
the pen column of the ammunition to be 1C (This was mainly by the
HEAP rounds) what does this mean. I could not find any referance to
it. I took it to mean that this PEN value applied to Cloth and above,
other weaker armour type would be unable to hinder the round.

Refering to the fact that some rounds had not chance of getting past
the armour (as mentioned in some other messages), have you consider
the impact damage that is refered to in the rule book. i.e. When it
is still possible to be damaged, even though the round did not get
through. I was only skimming the book yesterday so I may have missed
a few details but I think this is correct

Dave

------------------------------

Bundle: 514
Archive-Message-Number: 6267
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 17:44 GMT0
From: David Johnson - CIX Staff <djohnson@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Computer aid traveller
Reply-To: djohnson@cix.compulink.co.uk


Is there a computer aided traveller mailing list still (or was there
ever). If so who do I mail to get on it?

Dave

------------------------------

Bundle: 514
Archive-Message-Number: 6268
Subject: Re: Computer aid traveller
Reply-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Administrator)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 11:38:29 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@sp-eug.com>


David Johnson - CIX Staff <djohnson@cix.compulink.co.uk> writes:
> Is there a computer aided traveller mailing list still (or was there
> ever). If so who do I mail to get on it?

Email to both Dan Corrin (dan@engrg.uwo.ca, list admin) and Richard
Johnson (richard@agora.rain.com, discussion leader). There's been some
discussion lately on the Library Data database project.

James

__   __/         /   /	    Internet Traveller Mailing List, Administrator
    /     /  /  /   /	   James T. Perkins in Eugene, Oregon, USA
 __/   __/__/__/ _____/   traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca

------------------------------

Bundle: 514
Archive-Message-Number: 6269
Date: 28 Oct 93 22:38:38 EDT
From: Kerry Harrison <71333.300@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: TNE-Publications

Flynn,

Published:
300 - Traveller: The New Era     $25
301 - Survival Margin            $10
303 - Brilliant Lances           $29.95
306 - Traveller Player's Forms   $14  (GDW said they were enroute to the
distributors)

Due in November:
302 - Deluxe Traveller           $34.95
304 - Fire, Fusion & Steel       $14
307 - Traveller Referee Screen   $8

(prices are from Wargames West catalog)

225 Arrival Vengeance ($7) is a MegaTraveller adventure, the last one
published I believe.
====
Kerry Harrison
AOL: Harrisonk CIS: 71333,300 GEnie: HARRISON1
Internet: harrisok@ccmail.us.dell.com





------------------------------

Bundle: 514
Archive-Message-Number: 6270
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 08:31:39 PDT
From: jamesp@sp-eug.com (JAMES PERKINS)
Subject: testing

hello

------------------------------

Bundle: 514
Archive-Message-Number: 6271
Subject: Re: Handmade high-tech
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 08:28:16 PDT
From: jamesp@sp-eug.com (James Perkins)


Dan? writes:
>I think that this type of culture is interesting, however. What happens
>to visitors to the planet?

rancke@diku.dk writes:
> That's what I want my players to find out some day ;-) They get treated to
> anything from a cold shoulder to physical abuse, depending on the bigotry
> of the native.

If the world is fairly isolated from regular offworld traffic, there
will probably be people very eager to leave as well, like any
restrictive society needs an escape valve. Witness the number of
Pennsylvania Dutch children who leave the community to make their way in
the big city in popular society, or people from small towns or students
from the 3rd world who never go back. Or people from Eugene Oregon who
leave for Portland or Seattle (I can sure see why :-).

Or think of the two characters from _Doc_Hollywood_ who wanted to leave
their home town and go to LA. The young lass would have done nearly
anything to get Ben Stone to take her with him. Maybe an idea for a
plotlet in there. "Back to the Interstate, Ben Stone".

On the other hand, maybe the planet is famous for its quirky goods and
has a lucrative trade business. There's still people eager to leave the
Squash capital of the south.

(Acck, I have succumbed to Pop Culture and visual media instead of
literature to get my point across, I am unmistakably a member of
Generation X! Acck!)

James (having a personality crisis)

__   __/         /   /	    Internet Traveller Mailing List, Administrator
    /     /  /  /   /	   James T. Perkins in Eugene, Oregon, USA
 __/   __/__/__/ _____/   traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca
Reply-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Administrator)
>From: TML Administrator <traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca>


Dan? writes:
>I think that this type of culture is interesting, however. What happens
>to visitors to the planet?

rancke@diku.dk writes:
> That's what I want my players to find out some day ;-) They get treated to
> anything from a cold shoulder to physical abuse, depending on the bigotry
> of the native.

If the world is fairly isolated from regular offworld traffic, there
will probably be people very eager to leave as well, like any
restrictive society needs an escape valve. Witness the number of
Pennsylvania Dutch children who leave the community to make their way in
the big city in popular society, or people from small towns or students
from the 3rd world who never go back. Or people from Eugene Oregon who
leave for Portland or Seattle (I can sure see why :-).

Or think of the two characters from _Doc_Hollywood_ who wanted to leave
their home town and go to LA. The young lass would have done nearly
anything to get Ben Stone to take her with him. Maybe an idea for a
plotlet in there. "Back to the Interstate, Ben Stone".

On the other hand, maybe the planet is famous for its quirky goods and
has a lucrative trade business. There's still people eager to leave the
Squash capital of the south.

(Acck, I have succumbed to Pop Culture and visual media instead of
literature to get my point across, I am unmistakably a member of
Generation X! Acck!)

James (having a personality crisis)

__   __/         /   /	    Internet Traveller Mailing List, Administrator
    /     /  /  /   /	   James T. Perkins in Eugene, Oregon, USA
 __/   __/__/__/ _____/   traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca

------------------------------

Bundle: 514
Archive-Message-Number: 6272
From: Mike Basinger <dbasinge@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Sub sector sheet uploaded
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 10:55:07 -0500 (EST)

I have uploaded a computerized sub-sector sheet to 129.100.100.12.

I has been placed in the /pub/traveller/sectors dir.

ttnessec.gif		File is gif format
ttnessec.hqx		File in Macintosh Pict format

Feel free to alter it as you choose, but give me a little credit :-).

mike
- --
D. Michael Basinger: 	Not speaking for Indiana University
			dbasinge@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu
			dbasinge@arapahoe.ucs.indiana.edu (NeXT Mail)

------------------------------

Bundle: 514
Archive-Message-Number: 6273
From: Glenn Myers <gem188@swanson.com>
Subject: 3-D plots and BL Questions
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 14:16:59 EDT

Hi all:

I've been following the 3-D space visualization problem. It reminded me
of how I had to view 3-D trajectories of underwater vehicles when I
worked for the Navy. Back then, I used Matlab to do the trajectory plots.

If I had to do it now, I'd use DeltaGraph or some other charting package.
Think about it. You could link all J-1 routes into their own path.
Different symbols could be used for tech levels, starport type, or
whatever you wanted. Later, it would be easy to rotate to the proper
view point. Just a suggestion...

I received the GDW mailing including errata for BL and TNE. The BL errata
is the same as that included with the boxed game. I don't have much
interest in the TNE errata because I don't think I'll use TNE, my main
interest lies with BL. If anyone wants them, I'll post them.

I have a few questions concerning BL.

(1) Has anyone found the stats for the Manta fuel skimmer listed in the
    Aurora-Class Clipper.

(2) Has there been any reference to the capacitors used with Black Globes.
    The rules seem skimpy, certainly not enough to design anything with
    them.

Thanks

Glenn


- ----------------------------------
| Glenn E. Myers                 |
| gmyers@swanson.com             |
| QA software engineer           |
| Swanson Analysis Systems, Inc. |
| (412) 746-3304 x188            |
- ----------------------------------


------------------------------

Bundle: 514
Archive-Message-Number: 6274
From: james vassilakos <jimv@ucrengr.ucr.edu>
Subject: 3D Maps / defining one possible software approach
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 12:29:06 +0000 (BST)


Yesterday I wrote some guidelines for a computer software package that
could display 3d maps.

> 1. 3d/rotatable (obviously)
> 2. display name of the star-system beside the identifier on the map,
>    legibly, semi-regardless of the user's point of perspective.
> 3. use color and size to further distinguish stellar/system features.
> 4. incorporate an adjustable cartesian grid with numbering displayed.
> 5. IBM executable (assume SVGA or better)
> 6. Input data stored in TEXT file (this is important, because we need
>    to be able to write simple programs to generate this data, and it
>    would be nice to be able to hand-modify it with choice of editor).

One response, received this morning, is from djohnson@cix.compulink.co.uk
who is actually considering taking on the project.

> Having read your message in the TML I though why not give it
> a go and write a 3d viewing program.

He went on about it being important to have pre-defined specs, which
I have to agree, would be important for such a project as this (I'm
used to programming simple things. This puppy is a monster my comparison.).
On this note, we got talking about data file format.

> I assume that stats for a planet will be something like
>
> <x,y,z> Name <UWP> etc
>
> Does this seem correct to you?

I'm forwarding my response to the list, since there may be others who are
thinking about the problem.

> More or less. The thing is that this type of tool will probably not be
> specifically for Traveller or any other SF-RPG. Hence, you don't need to
> have UWP in the usual sense. You should probably impliment something like:
>
> +xxxx +yyyy +zzzz Name_of_star_system_as_displayed_on_map Sz Cp Ci
>
> where +    is the sign of the coordinate
>       xxxx is x-coordinate
>       yyyy is y-coordinate
>       zzzz is z-coordinate
>       Name field should be as wide as the maximum size name you're willing
>            to display on the map
>       Sz   is Size of circle on map (circles are used to denote stars.
>             a circle with size=1 would be a point)
>       Cp   Color of perimeter (the color of the skin of the circle)
>       Ci   Color of interior
>
> So that each point has two colors (perimeter and interior) and a size.
> Of course, very small circles will look like points, and their two
> colors will be identical.
>
> But in this way, the users can illustrate their data any way they want,
> and it won't clutter the map with a bunch of confusing (and often
> inconsequential) symbols. If the user wants a blue interior to denote a
> terra-norm world, then that's what it means to her/him. If the user wants
> a blue interior to denote a hot-blue star, then it means that instead.
> Different attributes will be important to different people. It's best not
> to tie yourself down to a single UWP but instead keep the data based solely
> on the mechanism of the actual map (i.e. what color(s) and size is this
> "dot" going to have). In this way, as well, the program will be useable for
> a wider variety of RPGs.

Also, for anybody thinking about this stuff, Kerry Harrison
(harrisok@ccmail.us.dell.com) mentioned a program named "Outlander's
Starchart 3d" which is supposed to be available somewhere somehow.
I dunno yet, but talk to Kerry.

Anyway, if anybody makes any progress on this, please let the rest of
know what you're up to.

           _   /|       Jim Vassilakos
           \`o_O'       jimv@ucrengr.ucr.edu
             ( )        jimv@silver.lcs.mit.edu
              U         jimv@wizards.com
           Aachk!       (USA) 909-864-3814


------------------------------

Bundle: 514
Archive-Message-Number: 6275
Subject: Handmade tech? (63:8)
From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 17:19:00 -0500



TA::>So my main question is this: Given that you have a large income, can buy
  ::>most tech 4-5 items ready-made, can hire assistants for scut-work, has
  ::>tech 15 knowledge available, and are willing to devote a couple of hours a
  ::>day for a decade to the project, what kind of interesting high-tech items
  ::>might you be able to produce? What would be beyond you? Same question for
  ::>familiy projects, ie. several family members working on one project over
  ::>several generations (this culture is over 2000 years old and very stable).
  ::>Would you be able to build a spaceship? Or even a starship?

  The only comment I'll make in connection with this question is to
  note that one of the "official" publications, possibly dating
  back to the Classic Traveller days, had a sentence in it, in an
  article on the Droyne, that said, in effect, that "their
  hand-made Jump Drives are probably the finest in existence."

  As to the rest of the starship, deponent saith naught.
==========================================================================
Jeff Zeitlin                                      jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com
- ---
 ~ QMPro 1.51 ~ Love sometimes expresses itself in sacrifice.

------------------------------

Bundle: 514
Archive-Message-Number: 6265
From: mgood@MIT.EDU
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 13:39:01 EST
Subject: TNE Errata from GDW

This errata is from a sheet sent to me by GDW. It is presented in its
entirety in ASCII format.  I also received a errata sheet for Brilliant
Lances, dated August 9, 1993.  This is the same sheet that I received
with the game.  Please let me know if anyone needs it, and if they do
I'll scan it in.


Traveller: The New Era - Errata

Errata and Clarifications to Traveller: The New Era, effective June 30,
1993, organized by page number.

Page 5
Combat starts  on page 263, not 363.

Page 38
Stellar Regions DMs Table
Under "Wilds", wear value reference should be 10, not 8.

Page 186
4 World Size
Should be 2D6-2
5 Atmosphere
Should be 2D-7 + World Size
6 Hydrographics
Should be 2D-7 + World Size
8 Government
Should be 2D-7 + Population
9 Law Level
Should be 2D-7 + Government

Page 187
12 Trade Classification
Atmosphere for Industrial class should be "2-,4,7,9"

Page 191
A number of players have expressed concern that there are now two
parallel sets of governmental type codes, one for the Wilds, and one
for use elsewhere, as this will cause confusion when reading UWPs.
Players should think of the government digit not as a firm definition
in the same manner as a size or hydrograhics code.  Rather, it is a
descriptive tool to help create an effective roleplaying atmosphere.
Unlike all other digits of the UWP which are quantifiable, government
type is highly descriptive in nature and is often a judgement call.  For
example, is a board of directors a Participating Democracy, a Company/
Corporation, or a Self-Perpetuating Oligarchy?

Future Traveller: The New Era products will expand and further detail
world governmental descriptions. The basic book was not able to contain
such a system for reasons of space, and  because the game had to allow
players to generate pre-Collapse Imperial worlds, the classic Traveller
method of government generation was retained as an interim system. In
providing the Wilds government types, we aimed to increase the diversity
of world types that can be visited, and further fuel players'
imaginations.
Like real governments, UWP government digits can change unpredictably,
and exist to help referees create interesting campaigns, rather existing
as ends in themselves.

Page 196
Travel Movement Table
Some of the Travel Moves are off.  Correct values are:
Heavy cargo truck  85/10
Ground car             260/50
Hovercraft             240/195
Tracked ATV          150/65
Range truck            240/85
Wheeled ATV          175/65
Air raft (open)       1440/260
G-Carrier               2880/260
Enclosed air raft    2880/260
Grav Tank               2400/345
Speeder                  3360/390
Grav bike                720/85

Page 236
5 Sourceworld Trade Classifications
Atmosphere for Industrial class should be "2-,4,7,9"

Page 288
Upon further testing, we have decided that the following wound effects
provide more entertaining and dynamic play, and suggest that all players
use these instead.

Serious Wounds: the roll to avoid losing consciousness every turn in
which
the character attempts an activity becomes a Difficult roll against
Constitution.  Characters who have lost consciousness make a Formidable
roll against their Constitution each turn to attempt to regain
consciousness.

Critical Wounds: The roll to regain consciousness is made each combat
turn, and a D100 (percentile) roll against the Constitution attribute.

Page 289
Add the following new rule for the use of the personal medical kit,
immediately before the "Stabilizing Critical Wounds" section.

Use of a personal medical kit (page 334) allows a character with neither
Medical skill nor a doctor's medical kit to avoid the unskilled penalty
when attempting a first aid task (thus it is a Formidable task using the
characters's EDU attribute).  One such use uses up the medical kit.

Page 292
Under Powerboats, the reference to "size one" should read "Micro or
SubMicro".

Page 301
Fire: The task to extinguish a fire should be a Difficult versus CON,
not
Formidable.

Page 302
In the example of the collision between the car and the truck, the
following corrections should be made: "the car is hit with a value
of (95x2)/10, or 19," "which means that (19-1=) 18 is referenced," and
"As a result, (9-1=) 8 points are taken to the Vehicle Damage Results
Table."  In the tandem bicycle example, the check versus Agility should
be Average, not Difficult.

Page 315
In the second to last paragraph, delete the reference to the limit on
maximum simultaneous sensor locks.

Page 325
Delete Hit Location table in the lower left-hand corner of page, as it
is
redundant.  Use Ship Facing tables at upper right for hit location.

On Ship Facing/Beam Weapons Fire table, "Fore Quarter" line should read:
"reroll results of 16 through 20."

Page 340
Communication Equipment
The in-text range of 500 km for both the Communicator, Laser, and
Communicator, Video, should be changed to 300 km, and all references
to the term "regional range" should be deleted.

Page 348
Laser Turret Table
The TL 14 150Mj laser turret should have an Extreme range listing of
"16:1/10-30."

Page 351
Slug Rifles and Carbines
The double-barrel rifle mentioned in the note is 12mm, not 13, and its
magazine listing in the table should be 2i.

Page 354
Small Arms
Several people have asked if the recoil figures for the 4mm Gauss
Pistol-13 are in error.  They are not.  Because Traveller: The New Era
uses
a more realistic system (developed for Twilight:2000) for rating
firearms
based on weapon weight, round weight, and muzzle velocity, than
Traveller
did, weapons that were created for Traveller do not always work well
when using their original Traveller specifications. The recoil is high
because it is specified as being such a light weapon for its high muzzle
velocity.  We have theorized that this is a light, easily concealable,
hold-out weapon that is hard to control.  Another gauss pistol design,
intended to be more controllable in combat, is shown at the bottom of
the
page. {I reproduced it below--matt}

                                  ----Weight-------
- ---Price----
Caliber              TL   Ammo    Empty  Lded  Ammo  Mag   Wpn    Ammo
4mm Gauss Cbt Auto   13  4mm Gs    0.8   1.02 .0145  15    600  1.3/20


- --Recoil--
Weapon              ROF  Dam   Pen    Blk  Mag    SS    Brst      Rng
4mm Gauss Cbt Auto  3     1   1-Nil   1    15      3     5         30

Page 355
Lasers
The Laser Rifle-9 (8cm) should have a Pen of Nil/3-Nil.
The Laser Rifle-13 (4cm) should have a Pen of 3.  This Penetration does
not attenuate with distance.

High Energy Weapon
The numbers listed under "Pen" are the weapons' Penetration Values for
use against vehicles, see page 297.  The penetration ratings for use
against personnel according to the rules on page 285 were inadvertently
omitted.  These ratings are 1-2-10 for all plasma guns and 1/2-1-4 for
all fusion guns.

Correct ranges for Fusion Rifle-14 is 50, and Fusion Rifle-15 is 70.

Page 360-365
Vehicle Data
Many of the vehicles have no listed configuration or an incomplete
configuration.  In addition, Travel Moves and grav vehicle Combat
Moves need to be corrected.  Their correct configurations and Moves
are as follows. The notation Unarmored refers to the Unarmored
Vehicles rule on Page 301, and the reference to turrets refer to the
Hit Location rule on page 297.  Any Travel or Combat moves that are
not listed do not need correction.

Note that travel moves for ground vehicles assume that the vehicle is
moving at a rate of 1.5 times its safe speed for a period of four hours.
This means that a ground vehicle could go farther than this during a
four
hour period.  The absolute upper limit is twice the listed travel move,
which translates to the vehicle's driver making constant Formidable
driving rolls for a period of fours hours.  Travel moves for aircraft
and
grav vehicles are in the format high flight speed/NOE speed.  For NOE
speed, the Travel Move is 1.5 times the safe speed for four hours, just
as
for ground vehicles.  Because high flight speed is an absolute speed at
high
altitude, the high flight Travel Mode is four hours at this speed, with
no
need for driving/piloting checks (except in the case of bad weather,
etc.,
at the referee's discretion).

Heavy Cargo Truck: Travel Move:85/10; Configuration: Vehicle (Unarmored)
Ground Car: Travel Move:260/50; Configuration: Vehicle (Unarmored)
Hovercraft: Travel Move:240/195; Configuration: Vehicle (no turret)
Tracked ATV: Travel Move:150/65; Configuration: Vehicle (no turret)
Range Truck: Travel Move:240/85; Configuration: Vehicle (Unarmored)
Wheeled ATV: Travel Move:175/65; Configuration: Vehicle (no turret)
Air Raft: Travel Move:1440/260; Combat Move 50/6; Configuration: Vehicle
(Unarmored)
G-Carrier: Travel Move:2880/260; Combat Move 100/6; Configuration:
Vehicle (Small Turret)
Enclosed Air Raft: Travel Move:2880/260; Combat Move 100/6;
Configuration: Vehicle (no turret)
Grav Tank: Travel Move:2400/345; Combat Move 83/8;
Configuration: Vehicle (Turret)
Speeder:Travel Move 3360/390; Combat Move 117/9;
Configuration: Vehicle (no turret)
Grav Bike: Travel Move: 720/85; Combat Move 25/2; Configuration: Use
"Firing at Riders" (page 277) and "Motorcycles" (page 301)

Page 363
G-Carrier
20 Mj plasma cradle gun Damage should be 16, and Penetration Values
should be 16-8-1.

Page 364
Grav Tanks
120 Mj fusion cradle gun Range should be 600*.

Pages 366-379
Starships
Starship errata will be corrected in Brilliant Lances: Traveller
Starship Combat, and will become available at that time.

------------------------------
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by the University of
Western Ontario. All opinions and materials below are the responsibility
of the originator.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 515  6276 29-Oct-1993 Jeff Zeitlin     Zero-G activities (63:8) << TA::>What I
 515  6277 29-Oct-1993 Dane Johnson     3d Format.. << Well, to throw in my Cr0
 515  6278 29-Oct-1993 James Kundert    Mighty Quiet... << Is it just me, or is
 515  6279 30-Oct-1993 Scott S. Kellog  TML nightly: Msgs 6269-6274 V63#11 << >
 515  6280 30-Oct-1993 "Susan M. Shock  Starships << A couple of questions:
 515  6281 30-Oct-1993 "Susan M. Shock  Secondary Activities in TNE << We've co
 515  6282 30-Oct-1993 Jack Dietz       Re: Zero-G and 3D starmaps << Jeff Zeit
 515  6283 30-Oct-1993 Dane Johnson     Zero-G Sports... << I've always thought
 515  6284 31-Oct-1993 "Shannon D. App  Index: Different Worlds  << This is a f
 515  6285 31-Oct-1993 james vassilako  In consideration of 3D astrography << >
 515  6288 01-Nov-1993 Derek Wildstar   Zero-G activities and Stuff << >   You
 515  6289 30-Oct-1993 Thomas Hudson    3d Sector viewer << > Yesterday I wrote
 515  6290 30-Oct-1993 David Rodger     Re: TML nightly: Msgs 6275-6281 V63#12
 515  6291 01-Nov-1993 Brian Makens     Multiplayer Megatraveller on Genie? <<
 515  6292 01-Nov-1993 mgood@MIT.EDU    Combat Questions << In response to ques
 515  6293 01-Nov-1993 WADDELL@delphi.  3D << [Forwarded to traveller@engrg.uwo
 515  6294 02-Nov-1993 "THOMS, KEITH"   Re:  Handmade high-tech << From Dan Cor
 515  6295 02-Nov-1993 "THOMS, KEITH"   Re: 3D mapping << From Bruce Pihlamae .
 515  6296 02-Nov-1993 Ineluki Seyt-Ha  Two-Letter Alligiance Codes... <<   Hi

------------------------------

Bundle: 515
Archive-Message-Number: 6276
Subject: Zero-G activities (63:8)
From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 17:19:00 -0500

TA::>What I'm curious about is, what other ideas people have seen for zero-g
  ::>recreation?  Seems to me it could be kinda interesting to make up a list o
  ::>whatever people might think of or have seen, and then turn it into a
  ::>"Imperial Zero-G Sports Catalog", as a nice fleshing out of the oft-ignore
  ::>recreation aspect of role-playing.  After all, think of what your players
  ::>would think if the next time they hit a belt station they get to choose
  ::>what sort of goofing off they do -- and just think of the opportunites for
  ::>weird patron encounters...

  Well, Paintball was mentioned; I can see variations on soccer
  (Football to those of you who aren't from the US), lacrosse,
  field hockey, and other similar sports (all of the above are just
  variations on a theme.  There's nothing that inherently requires
  gravity in any of them).  Games like jai-alai and handball
  shouldn't be too difficult to adapt, either - and there's your
  gambling sport.

  You could suspend a great big ball of water in the middle of the
  0G area, and there's your swimming pool.  But you'll have to
  remember that there's no tendency for the human body (or anything
  else) to float (or sink).

  Or, just strap on wings and fly in the empty space.  I remember
  reading a "kid's" SF book where one of the recreational
  activities on the moon (which is hardly 0G) was just this.
  Damned if I can remember the name of the book - or the author.
  Just that the protagonist's boyfriend's name was "Jeff Hardesty."
==========================================================================
Jeff Zeitlin                                      jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com
- ---
 ~ QMPro 1.51 ~ hsiweJ m'I ,cixelsyd TON m'I

------------------------------

Bundle: 515
Archive-Message-Number: 6277
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 20:25:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dane Johnson <djohnson@jupiter.willamette.edu>
Reply-To: Dane Johnson <djohnson@jupiter.willamette.edu>
Subject: 3d Format..


Well, to throw in my Cr0.02, I think that instead of my namesake's :
<x-y-z> Name <UWP>

I'd suggest
Name <x-y-z UWP>

The X-Y-Z group should maintain the "current" XXYY grouping, giving us
Terra/Solomani Rim (1827ZZ G867975-8 etc...), thus requiring little
variation on existing data and file-formats, and making the resulting data
files useable by people who want to maintain 2D orientations...

Dane

djohnson@willamette.edu
traveller@llnl.gov
TNS Stringer ------ Terra/Solomani Rim (1827 G867975-8)
"I'm not a real scientist, but I play one in an RPG."





------------------------------

Bundle: 515
Archive-Message-Number: 6278
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 21:24:46 PDT
From: James Kundert <james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>
Subject: Mighty Quiet...

Is it just me, or is it awfully quiet around here?

James Kundert <james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>

There was a young lady named Bright,
Whose speed was much faster, much faster than Light.
She departed one day in a relative way,
And returned on the previous Night.
   --Albert & the Heart of Gold

------------------------------

Bundle: 515
Archive-Message-Number: 6279
From: skellogg@lonestar.utsa.edu (Scott S. Kellogg)
Subject: TML nightly: Msgs 6269-6274 V63#11
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 93 14:53:29 CDT

> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 08:31:39 PDT
> From: jamesp@sp-eug.com (JAMES PERKINS)
> Subject: testing
>
> hello
>
> ------------------------------
> Subject: Re: Handmade high-tech
> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 08:28:16 PDT
> From: jamesp@sp-eug.com (James Perkins)
[...]
> (Acck, I have succumbed to Pop Culture and visual media instead of
> literature to get my point across, I am unmistakably a member of
> Generation X! Acck!)
[...]
> James (having a personality crisis)
> (Acck, I have succumbed to Pop Culture and visual media instead of
> literature to get my point across, I am unmistakably a member of
> Generation X! Acck!)
>
> James (having a personality crisis)

James, Perhaps you ought to sit down, take a stress pill, and think
this over...  James?  Stop, James.  My mind is going...  I can feel it...
I can feel it...   Will you stop James?

Daisy... Daisy...  :-)
- --
Scott 2G Kellogg
"I'm marrying you for your body"  -- 2G Scott's Fiancee


------------------------------

Bundle: 515
Archive-Message-Number: 6280
Date:         Sat, 30 Oct 93 16:45:12 EDT
From: "Susan M. Shock" <34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Subject:      Starships

A couple of questions:

1. Has anyone come up with a method for converting ship stats from MegaTravelle
r to TNE? Specifically in the area of armor values?

2. I'm interested in running the old adventure "Annic Nova" using the new rules
and am wondering if anyone has come up with ideas on how to do this ship in TNE
? I assume it will be possible after FF&S comes out, but I'd like to get a jump
on it. Does anyone have an idea what TL the ship is?
                                Thanks!

------------------------------

Bundle: 515
Archive-Message-Number: 6281
Date:         Sat, 30 Oct 93 16:49:16 EDT
From: "Susan M. Shock" <34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Subject:      Secondary Activities in TNE

We've come up with some interesting ideas to add to TNE character creation. For
each term, a character gets one "secondary activity". The book defines this as
one level in any skill. We propose adding the following: you can use your "seco
ndary activity" as a physical regimen program designed to offset the effects of
aging. (This is allowed after play begins, we're just assuming it to happen dur
ing creation). This might be accompanied by a roll to see if this program gets
interrupted; if it does, no benefit is gained. This allows characters to be a
little older without messing over their stats too badly.
  We've also made Jack of All Trades a INT skill, which is used as an enabling
roll anytime a character tries something he/she doesn't have a skill for. If
successful, they make the roll as if they had a level 0 skill.
  This brings up an interesting question: how does a character accquire level
0 skills, aside from the default skills? Is this done through training? points?
Not at all?

------------------------------

Bundle: 515
Archive-Message-Number: 6282
From: jdietz@sdcc15.UCSD.EDU (Jack Dietz)
Subject: Re: Zero-G and 3D starmaps
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1993 20:28:32 -0700 (PDT)
Reply-To: jdietz@egbt.org

Jeff Zeitlin writes,
>   Or, just strap on wings and fly in the empty space.  I remember
>   reading a "kid's" SF book where one of the recreational
>   activities on the moon (which is hardly 0G) was just this.
>   Damned if I can remember the name of the book - or the author.
>   Just that the protagonist's boyfriend's name was "Jeff Hardesty."

The short story was "The Menace from Earth", by Robert Heinlein.

Dane Johnson writes:
> The X-Y-Z group should maintain the "current" XXYY grouping, giving us
> Terra/Solomani Rim (1827ZZ G867975-8 etc...), thus requiring little
> variation on existing data and file-formats, and making the resulting data
> files useable by people who want to maintain 2D orientations...

I'm not sure how valuable this would be.  3D starmaps look very
different from 2D ones, and the resulting trade routes and political
boundaries would be quite meaningless.

I've done some analysis of a near-star catalog (*), and it doesn't
look as though the standard Traveller jump drive price and size
hierarchy makes much sense in three-space.  Now, in the Spinward
Marches, there is approximately one star every other square parsec,
leading to the wondrous Spinward Main.  Approximately half of the
stars in a 40x32x(1) parsec rectangle are reachable by jump-1, and
most of the rest by jump-2.  The extra jump distance mainly provides
speed.  On the other hand, each star has (at most) six neighbors
within 1 parsec, 12 within 2, 18 within 3 and so forth.

In the 25-parsec radius around Sol, there are 2250 stars in ~1750
star systems.  Ignoring the possibility of drop-tanks for now, here
are tables with the number of reachable systems in 'real life' and
in the Solomani Rim sector in Traveller for set distances.

   'Real Life'         Traveller
Distance  Systems  Distance   Systems
   1         0        1          0
   2         4        2     all but a few
   3       1027       3         all
   4       1720

Breaking down the 2-3 parsec range (because with this degree of
detail the numbers can be broken down any which way), 'real life'
looks rather gradual:

  'Real Life'
Distance  2.2  2.3  2.4  2.5  2.6  2.7  2.8  2.9  3.0
Stars       4   88  190  299  326  561  723  842 1027

In fact, this gradual nature is more of a product of not using
gridsquares rather than of using a 3D representation.  But it also
means that the size of your jump drives/fuel tanks also determines
where you can go _at_all_ as well as how quickly you can get there
to a much greater degree than in standard Traveller.  A
Beowulf-class Free Trader won't get much business with just Jump-1
drives, even if they do get enough fuel for two jumps!

One of the reasons, for me, that 2300 feels different than Traveller
is that star travel is constrained.  They seem to have cunningly
picked a limit of 7.7 light years ( <2.4 parsecs ) in order to give
space a degree of texture that allows Terran national governments to
dominate space.  Perhaps also, to avoid overwhelming players with
choices, which could happen given their limited display
abilities...

Going back to 3D Traveller, I don't think it would be very valuable
to use 2D subsectors in 3D games, and vice versa.  A 3D map will
assume that it has six borders, not four, and will have trade routes
coming in from the subsectors above and below.  Furthermore, for the
same number of stars, it will be of different dimensions.  (more
like a cube 5 parsecs on a side).  If Z-coordinates are arbitrarily
removed, the star systems will be in different positions, leading to
different relations between them, and an entirely different
political and economic situation.

This also applies to the large scale boundaries of empires.  Being
3-dimensional entities, they will have borders that follow the
contours of their stars, rather than those of a flat map.  As such,
they will probably be smaller and more spherical than indicated on
the standard Traveller maps.

I believe that it would be a mistake to assume that 3D can be added
to Traveller simply by layering subsector sheets on top of each
other, because the original mapping was highly unrealistic, and
many of the assumptions implicit in it are not portable.  3D
Traveller sounds like fun, and I'd like to work on a universe using
it.  However, anything related even remotely to astrography would
need to be reworked in its entireity.  As such, it's unlikely to be
Classic Traveller + 3D.

Jack Dietz
// jdietz@egbt.org

(*) Royal Observatory Annals number 5: Catalogue of Stars within
twenty-five parsecs of the Sun (Herstmonceaux, 1970).  Almost the
same catalog as GDW used for the data from 2300 (Gliese 2nd Edition,
also 1970).  The raw data is available from arc.ames.nasa.gov, I
believe, and a processed version is available for FTP somewhere.
(Sorry I'm so forgetful, but I had to rebuild my filesystem recently
and I've lost a lot of back mail.)
- --
Jack Dietz, Southern Research Labs, Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow.
* Little.  Yellow.  Different.  Sol. *  jdietz@ucsd.edu, jdietz@egbt.org

------------------------------

Bundle: 515
Archive-Message-Number: 6283
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1993 23:20:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dane Johnson <djohnson@jupiter.willamette.edu>
Subject: Zero-G Sports...


I've always thought that Pool would adapt well to a 3D, weightless
environment (this could even be done on a standard ship by properly tuning
the grav plates) -- Basically set up a box of mesh with "pockets" at each
corner and half way along the "long" vertexes, rack the balls using some
sort of contrivance, and shoot by sticking your cue through the mesh...In
a true weightless environment it's no problem to shoot from above or below
the "table", either...Tricky on a ship's setup, tho', unless the whole
room is in free-fall...

djohnson@willamette.edu   dane@halcyon.com

TNS Stringer ------ Terra/Solomani Rim (1827 G867975-8)
"My opinions are those of my cat sniffing, fuzz brained Norwegian Elkhound."


------------------------------

Bundle: 515
Archive-Message-Number: 6284
From: "Shannon D. Appel" <appel@erzo.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Index: Different Worlds
Reply-To: appel@erzo.berkeley.edu
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 93 18:46:32 -0800

This is a fragment of an Index of Different Worlds Magazine that I
recently put together.  I trust that it will be of use to subscribers
of the TML.  If you're interested in the full index, you can either
FTP it from soda.berkeley.edu (/pub/rpg-index/different-worlds) or
watch rec.games.frp.archives.

Shannon

- --
				 FROM
                      THE DIFFERENT WORLDS INDEX
                             VERSION 1.01

                            [issues 1-47]

TRAVELLER, ORIGINAL [GDW]
  Adventure, Spinward Marches:
    Race for the "Specter", by Doug Houseman            #20     pg 20-28
  Background, Misc:
    The Travellers' Aid Society, by Iain Delaney        #13     pg 10-11
  Background, Introduction:
    The Imperium, by Marc Miller and Frank Chadwick     #9      pg 16-20
  Campaign Design, Encounters:
    Make Love, Not War, by Terrence McInnes             #32     pg 24-26
    Planetary Encounters, by Mason Jones                #28     pg 26
  Equipment, Combat:
    Pistols, by Paul Crabaugh                           #21     pg 17
  Equipment, Computers:
    A New Computer System, by Martin Connell            #11     pg 14-17
  Equipment, Ships, Misc:
    Battleriders vs. Battleships, by Paul Crabaugh      #26     pg 13
    Battleriders vs. Battleships, by John Harshman      #29     pg 21
  Equipment, Ships, Designs:
    For Sale : Three New Fighters, by Paul Crabaugh     #17     pg 10-11
    Starfreighter Athena, by Henry Padilla              #18     pg 24-25
    Terraforming, Part 1, by Doug Houseman              #22     pg 16-21
    Terraforming, Part 2, by Doug Houseman              #23     pg 28-33
  Rules, Misc:
    Effects of Mass in Traveller, by William Lowe       #25     pg 15
  Rules, Board Games, Azhanti High Lightning:
    Swords on Deck, by Paul Crabaugh                    #18     pg 7
  Rules, Board Games, Trillion Credit Squadron:
    Changes for TCS, by Doug Houseman                   #18     pg 8-9
  Rules, Character Creation, Misc:
    Make Love, Not War, by Terrence McInnes             #32     pg 24-26
    Traveller Mutations, by Iain Delaney                #10     pg 8-9
  Rules, Character Creation, Careers:
    Cops!, by Terry McInnes (1)                         #46     pg 10-14
    More Citizens, by Paul Crabaugh                     #15     pg 4-5
    The Underworld, by Jon Mattson                      #33     pg 16-19
  Rules, Combat:
    Pistols, by Paul Crabaugh                           #21     pg 17
  Technology, Misc:
    Genetic Engineering, by Dave Bryant                 #38     pg 16-19
    Terraforming, Part 1, by Doug Houseman              #22     pg 16-21
    Terraforming, Part 2, by Doug Houseman              #23     pg 28-33

------------------------------

Bundle: 515
Archive-Message-Number: 6285
From: james vassilakos <jimv@ucrengr.ucr.edu>
Subject: In consideration of 3D astrography
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1993 19:55:56 -0800 (PST)

> 3D Traveller sounds like fun, and I'd like to work on a universe using
> it.  However, anything related even remotely to astrography would
> need to be reworked in its entireity.  As such, it's unlikely to be
> Classic Traveller + 3D.
>
> Jack Dietz // jdietz@egbt.org

Wholehearted agreement from this corner. While being a proponent of
"3D Traveller", I'll be the first to admit that the very term is
somewhat of a misnomer. Because once you add that third dimension, not
only do you have to re-write the maps from scratch, but with them, most
of the setting and background (as a lot of it is based on those funky
2D maps) and much of the starship travel (and possibly construction)
rules (which is also based on 2D astrography). In short, Traveller 3D
would be a supreme headache and an unprecedented pain. And in the end,
so much of the game would have been re-worked, that you'd be more than
stretching the truth to call it Traveller.

Nonetheless, for those who have the time and the gumption, this idea
of "Traveller 3D" can be a lot of fun. But whatever the level of
sophistication, the initial "coolness" will only go so far. There's
a lot of work involved, after all, work that could be better spent
thinking about plot, and characterization, and all those "other things"
(i.e. the mainstays of whatever makes roleplaying games so much fun).

My suspension-of-disbelief would be about the same in either case
(2D or 3D). I think it comes down to the personal preference of the
GM. All said, for most people out there, 3D probably isn't worth the
headache that it entails (if you want to do it right). But for those
of us who have already broken with the published Traveller setting
(and rules to some extent), the jump to 3D, while still being a headache,
may not be all that huge a headache. And it is one certain way to
differentiate a game. "Wow, you have a 3D universe? Cool."

Just make sure that when that initial "coolness" wears off, the rest of
the game is still fun and is (hopefully) enhanced by the 3D-astrography
rather than being drowned by it.

           _   /|       Jim Vassilakos
           \`o_O'       jimv@ucrengr.ucr.edu
             ( )        jimv@silver.lcs.mit.edu
              U         jimv@wizards.com
           Aachk!       (USA) 909-864-3814


------------------------------

Bundle: 515
Archive-Message-Number: 6286

------------------------------

Bundle: 515
Archive-Message-Number: 6287

------------------------------

Bundle: 515
Archive-Message-Number: 6288
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 10:44:47 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@quark.qrc.com>
Subject: Zero-G activities and Stuff

>   You could suspend a great big ball of water in the middle of the
>   0G area, and there's your swimming pool.  But you'll have to
>   remember that there's no tendency for the human body (or anything
>   else) to float (or sink).

And no reason (other than surface tension) for the ball to stick together.
And no reason for the ball to stay put, either.  After someone "dives" in,
the ball would probably shatter into a million droplets, which would stick
to the nearest surface, be it a person or the walls of the room.

>   Or, just strap on wings and fly in the empty space.  I remember
>   reading a "kid's" SF book where one of the recreational
>   activities on the moon (which is hardly 0G) was just this.
>   Damned if I can remember the name of the book - or the author.
>   Just that the protagonist's boyfriend's name was "Jeff Hardesty."

Was it perhaps "The Menace from Earth", yet another of
those Robert A. Heinlien classics?


> 2. I'm interested in running the old adventure "Annic Nova" using the new rules
> and am wondering if anyone has come up with ideas on how to do this ship in TNE
> ? I assume it will be possible after FF&S comes out, but I'd like to get a jump
> on it. Does anyone have an idea what TL the ship is?

The ANNIC NOVA was never a "official" design in any of the Traveller starship
design systems, and as far as I know, it's origin was never determined, although
it was certainly extra-Imperial.  As far as rating it in T:TNE, you could do a
lot worse than just translating the descriptions in the text into T:TNE or BL
game terms.  It has a negligable accelleration, J-2 and J-3 powered by solar
collectors, two small craft, and two laser turrets (which have an accurate
fire control system, treat as a Master Fire Director that can ignore one level
of difficulty).


>   We've also made Jack of All Trades a INT skill, which is used as an enabling
> roll anytime a character tries something he/she doesn't have a skill for. If
> successful, they make the roll as if they had a level 0 skill.

YES!


wildstar@quark.qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In the Far Future

------------------------------

Bundle: 515
Archive-Message-Number: 6289
From: thudson@sdcc8.UCSD.EDU (Thomas Hudson)
Subject: 3d Sector viewer
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 93 16:45:14 PDT

> Yesterday I wrote some guidelines for a computer software package that
> could display 3d maps.

My roommate and I spent some time coding a 3d space viewer during
last year/early this year, and learned a couple of things that might
be relevant.  Of course, the code is still very beta - no releases
from us anytime soon, although that was the eventual goal.

Apologies, while editing this I lost at least one level of
attribution below.  Somebody's respobsible for it.

> > 1. 3d/rotatable (obviously)
> > 2. display name of the star-system beside the identifier on the map,
> >    legibly, semi-regardless of the user's point of perspective.

One problem with this:  dealing with a 'reasonably large' number of
stars, names quickly become illegible.  The solution we've used is a
cursor that moves between stars, and displays name/other info in a
sidebar.  You might also want to do something more global, like
turning on/off the names of all stars within Jump-N.

> > 3. use color and size to further distinguish stellar/system features.
> > 4. incorporate an adjustable cartesian grid with numbering displayed.

We didn't do this, because our default environment was 2300, and the
only thing that really matters is the relative position of stars -
we took our data and massaged it to figure out which stars were
within stutterwarp distance of each other, and then toggled off/on
displays of valid stutterwarp routes.

Think about it for TNE - do you really need a cartesian grid?

> > 5. IBM executable (assume SVGA or better)

Has good technical documentation come out on SVGA coding yet?  Also,
although we have nice Tseng hardware, we're using something like
640x480, because at that resolution most cards have two pages and so
you can use screen flipping to animate it, meaning it looks _very_
smooth.

> > 6. Input data stored in TEXT file (this is important, because we need
> >    to be able to write simple programs to generate this data, and it
> >    would be nice to be able to hand-modify it with choice of editor).

[...]

> > But in this way, the users can illustrate their data any way they want,
> > and it won't clutter the map with a bunch of confusing (and often
> > inconsequential) symbols. If the user wants a blue interior to denote a
> > terra-norm world, then that's what it means to her/him. If the user wants
> > a blue interior to denote a hot-blue star, then it means that instead.
> > Different attributes will be important to different people. It's best not
> > to tie yourself down to a single UWP but instead keep the data based solely
> > on the mechanism of the actual map (i.e. what color(s) and size is this
> > "dot" going to have). In this way, as well, the program will be useable for
> > a wider variety of RPGs.

Actually, if we agree with your reasoning I'd use the opposite
implementation - our data set is really really huge (>2MB in some
database formats, I think), and if we wanted to view it differently
we'd have to load up a database manager, select a different set of
columns, map them into color values, save this out to disk as a text
file, and then run the viewer.  At least one use I'd envision for
this (although maybe it just means I've spent too much time writing
code to support decision-support software) is players sitting there
interactively getting different views/display formats of what's out
there, changing as they go which subset of the data is shown
on-screen so they can look for patterns.  So player ideally says,
"Color blue all systems containing terrestrial planets" and the display
ripples to its new configuration.

This is only a reasonable amount of extra work if you're coding just for
Traveller.  Coding for arbitrary SFRPGs is a software engineering
problem that is certainly solvable, given arbitrary resources  :)

>            _   /|       Jim Vassilakos
>            \`o_O'       jimv@ucrengr.ucr.edu
>              ( )        jimv@silver.lcs.mit.edu
>               U         jimv@wizards.com
>            Aachk!       (USA) 909-864-3814

Tom
// thudson@ucsd.edu
// "Inquire of the Mathematician as to the possibility of going to one
//  hundred five percent on the Turing Machine."

------------------------------

Bundle: 515
Archive-Message-Number: 6290
From: David Rodger <drodger@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: TML nightly: Msgs 6275-6281 V63#12
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1993 22:31:22 -0400 (EDT)

[Forwarded to TML]

Jeff Zeitlen says
>   Or, just strap on wings and fly in the empty space.  I remember
>   reading a "kid's" SF book where one of the recreational
>   activities on the moon (which is hardly 0G) was just this.
>   Damned if I can remember the name of the book - or the author.
 >   Just that the protagonist's boyfriend's name was "Jeff Hardesty."
 ==========================================================================

The story was "The Menace From Earth", by Heinlein...

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
David Rodger
drodger@access.digex.net

------------------------------

Bundle: 515
Archive-Message-Number: 6291
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 10:27:15 -0800
From: bjm@ares.dsc.com (Brian Makens)
Subject: Multiplayer Megatraveller on Genie?


I just recently picked up the current issue of Computer Gaming
World and in an article about GENCON, there was a discussion
of GEnie's presence at the show. Well, to cut to the quick,
The Genie Game Manager said something about their Multiplayer
Megatravller game is almost ready. Does anybody know anything
about it.  For the last several months I have been unable
to get past the formidable task role for personal computer
repair and therfore unable to login into Genie to find
out for myself.

				brian




------------------------------

Bundle: 515
Archive-Message-Number: 6292
From: mgood@MIT.EDU
Subject: Combat Questions
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 93 17:39:30 EST

In response to questions from Susan Shock and others:

About Laser Penetration:
In an earlier post to this list, Loren said that they revised
how lasers worked after a person In-The-Know gave them some
pointers.

In #71 of Challenge, there are two articles on design notes for BL and
a general article on Lasers in space combat.  In that article, David Nilsen
(sp?) says that 1) Reflec would be more like ablat (because the reflectivity
of the surface would be ruined after the first hit) and that 2) Reflec would
be too wrinkly on a person to be effective. He also commented that the
weightless invisible body suit was "too much of a good thing".

As to Plasma/Fusion Pen, see my post a few nights ago: they left
out some numbers: the listed numbers are for Vehicle pen.

The 1C notation means that their is explosive/concussion damage.  It's
in the rules (look under explosives, I think-- I don't have the rules
with me...)

About the low penetration of various weapons:  Body armor has to
be good for something, right?  The 2-2-2 rating for HEAP might
also be for vehicles: I'm not sure.

Matt (Not Goldman)



------------------------------

Bundle: 515
Archive-Message-Number: 6293
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1993 23:12:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: WADDELL@delphi.com
Subject: 3D

[Forwarded to traveller@engrg.uwo.ca, came to traveller-request alone.
Also, improved subject line. -- JamesP]

3D Traveller systems are difficult for a number of reasons.  First, the
jump routes are exceedingly hard to represent.  In 2D systems crossing
a sector boundary is simply shown by a line leading to the next sub-sector
or sector.  In 3D systems you end up with lines hanging.

Plotting movement is also a hassle when crossing boundaries.  Unless all
stars are plotted on the same X,Y,Z grid you will have to devise a system
for determining distance when the coordinates do not match exactly.

Another difficulty arises from the number of stars routinely plotted for
a sub-sector.  Stars in the area around Sol occur with a frequency of
1 every 10 cubic parsecs.  Sol is in a relatively thinly populated area.
As you move to the center of the spiral arms the stars get much closer
together.  The most dense seems to be in galactic cores where stars can
bunch up to several per cubic light year.  My own work with the Gliese
catalog places about 130 stars in 80 or so systems in a 10 x 10 x 10
parsec cube with Sol at the center.  Ships need to jump quite a ways to
reach the next star.

Finally, (at last the end) I suspect Traveller 2300 limited the distance
of travel to keep players from going anywhere on the map at any time.
Unlimited travel distances tend to "shrink" the map even if the ships are
slow.


------------------------------

Bundle: 515
Archive-Message-Number: 6294
Date: 2 Nov 93 13:51:00 EST
From: "THOMS, KEITH" <KTHOMS@nccs-evax.navy.mil>
Subject: Re:  Handmade high-tech

From Dan Corrin...
>Date: Wed, 27 Oct 93 12:25:07 EDT
>From: Dan's Traveller Mailing List Mail <tml@engrg.uwo.ca>
>Subject: Re: Handmade high-tech

 ...

>I don't think that any electronic components could be hand made.
>(depending on your definition). It would be pretty hard to even make
>vacuum tubes by hand (which of course includes televisions). A lot

  What about gray areas like imported electronic parts that are then
hand assembled or even just custom packaged?  An end user is typically
more interested in what the product looks and feels like than what's
inside.  Nobody would know but the repairman, and who do you think
would be fixing a one-of-a-kind design anyway?

  Another approach would be to think of all the prototype custom wire
wrapped circuit assemblies of today.  That could be elevated to an art
form if you can get around the problem of mass produced components.


Keith Thoms

- ---- Is it a rule that there is an exception to every rule?


------------------------------

Bundle: 515
Archive-Message-Number: 6295
Date: 2 Nov 93 13:49:00 EST
From: "THOMS, KEITH" <KTHOMS@nccs-evax.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: 3D mapping

From Bruce Pihlamae ...
>Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 08:35:33 +1000
>From: pihlab@cbr.hhcs.gov.au
>Subject: Re: 3D Mapping
>
>
>3D mapping was discussed some time ago and somebody then pointed
>out that the 2D Traveller maps just weren't showing all systems
>but just the interesting ones.
>

  This has been my interpretation, too.  Keeps it simple so you
can spend more time adventuring.

  From what little I remember about stellar statistical distributions
the vast majority of stars are red dwarfs that have little or no
adventuring value in Traveller.  That and darker matter are what make
the jump calculations so difficult.

  Can anyone on top of matter distribution suggest a gaming reason
to include these systems in an adventure?


>If you take the 2D map in this light then you can treat JUMP
>drive as a 2D mechanism.  I tinkered with this idea back then
>and came up with some basic assumptions.
>
>The Traveller 2D maps are simply a 3D universe squashed flat and
>only showing interesting systems.
>
>A JUMP can only travel it's JUMP rating in 2D but in the 3D
>universe the source and destination may also be vast distances
>apart in a vertical direction.  This vertical distance does NOT
>affect the 2D distance that can be travelled.

  Good explanation as any!  Does anyone think it'll affect any
game mechanics or history?


Keith Thoms

- ---- Is it a rule that there is an exception to every rule?


------------------------------

Bundle: 515
Archive-Message-Number: 6296
Subject: Two-Letter Alligiance Codes...
Reply-To: arakins@iastate.edu
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 93 16:26:37 CST
From: Ineluki Seyt-Hamakha <arakins@iastate.edu>


  Hi there folks.
  I am in the process of writting several computer programs
for Traveller:TNE. Part of these programs deal with system
design. I would like to know of all of the "official" two
letter alligiance codes that GDW has come out with over
the years (including MegaTraveller and Classic eras).
  I have thought of:

  Im: Normal Imperium            Zh: Zhodani
  Hv: Hiver                      As: Aslan
  Va: Vargr                      Dr: Droyne
  Sw: Sword Worlds               Da: Darrian Confederation
  Ve: Vegan Region               So: Solomani
  Li: Lucan's Imperium           Ma: Margaret's Imperium
  Du: Dulinor's Imperium         Si: Strephon's Imperium
  An: Anteres                    Ju: Julian Protectorate
  Hb: Hub Worlds                 Cs: Client State
  Re: Regency                    RC: Reformation Coalition
  Na: Non-Aligned

  I can't remember the K'Kree code.
  Could people please correct any errors I have made above,
plus make any additions that I have missed.
  Thank you very much.

+---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                    | Iowa State University             |
| Applications Programmer         | Center for Agricultural and       |
| arakins@iastate.edu             |     Rural Development             |
+---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+


------------------------------
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by the University of
Western Ontario. All opinions and materials below are the responsibility
of the originator.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 516  6297 03-Nov-1993 "Pedro A.C. Tav  3d star maps << I've been following the
 516  6298 03-Nov-1993 mgood@MIT.EDU    Virus Strikes Saab << Purloined without
 516  6299 03-Nov-1993 TML Administrat  Test of new sendmail.cf on nova.engrg.u
 516  6300 03-Nov-1993 Dan's Traveller  Re: Two-Letter Alligiance Codes... << i
 516  6301 04-Nov-1993 langsl@cbr.hhcs  Computerised Library Data <<
 516  6302 03-Nov-1993 gwh@lurnix.COM   Re: Two-Letter Codes << Some potentiall
 516  6303 04-Nov-1993 langsl@cbr.hhcs  tne combat notes <<                   I
 516  6304 04-Nov-1993 Goldman of Chao  TNE virus revisited. << I've had a chan
 516  6305 04-Nov-1993 Joe Heck         Re: Computerised Library Data << Before
 516  6306 04-Nov-1993 "Susan M. Shock  Miniatures << Does anyone know when the
 516  6307 05-Nov-1993 [Caffine Achiev  TNE:Combat notes comments << I've been
 516  6308 05-Nov-1993 mgood@MIT.EDU    Minuatures (sp??) and Combat << About m
 516  6309 06-Nov-1993 DTESTERM@charli  Penetration ratings << I have a questio
 516  6310 06-Nov-1993 DTESTERM@charli  Miniatures << At Gen Con, BL was being
 516  6311 06-Nov-1993 "Susan M. Shock  Traveller Navigator << Has anyone seen
 516  6312 07-Nov-1993 rancke@diku.dk   Hand-made high-tech << Adrian Hurt:
 516  6313 06-Nov-1993 Scott S. Kellog  Hand Made Tech << It occurs to me that
 516  6314 07-Nov-1993 Ineluki Seyt-Ha  Antares Sector... <<   I am developing
 516  6315 08-Nov-1993 Adrian Hurt      Re: Hand-made high-tech << rancke@diku.
 516  6316 08-Nov-1993 "Peter H. Brent  Zero-G activities << [Forwarded to trav

------------------------------

Bundle: 516
Archive-Message-Number: 6297
Date:         Wed, 03 Nov 93 13:21:28 PRT
From: "Pedro A.C. Tavares" <FTAVARES%PTEARN.BITNET@FRMOP11.CNUSC.FR>
Subject:      3d star maps

I've been following the discussion on 3d maps and would like to make a few
comments on this.  I follow the TML in biweekly digests so sorry if I'm being
redundant.

1. The universe is 3d and I simply don't see the fun of making it 2d.  Being
3d is exactly what makes it different, the logistic and tatics, from surface
wargaming or rpg.

2. I don't play MT so I don't know how inportant maping is in this game.
For my needs I am quite happy with the following setup:  I have the star
coordinates on database (unfortunatly only the coord at the present date).
A small program calculates the distance between one star and the others. When I
need a map, usually of a small section of the universe I use Graftool in which
3d maping and projecting on a suface is pretty easy and self explanatory.
With it I can make 3d maps in any orientation, with anchor lines and projection
on any plane.  GT is a few years old so more recent tools may be even easier.

Hope this is of any help,
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Pedro A.C. Tavares

Faculdade de Ciencias - Universidade de Lisboa

Email: ftavares@ptearn.bitnet
       ftavares@ptearn.fc.ul.pt
       pedro@eltn.utwente.nl
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Bundle: 516
Archive-Message-Number: 6298
From: mgood@MIT.EDU
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 09:24:59 -0500
Subject: Virus Strikes Saab


Purloined without permission...

Bumper Cars... (Newsweek, June 7, 1993)

An empty Saab Automobila factory in Sweden got a little *too* mobile
last month when a misprogrammed assembly line jump-started itself and
assembled 24 cars, rolling them off one after the other into a wall.  A
worker finally discovered the auto-automated line, but not before it had
created an impressive chrome-and-steel pileup.  Saab officials said that
damage was minimal.

"Assembly lines run slowly, and we have big bumpers," a Saab spokesman said.

- --------------------
Misprogrammed?  SURE!!!

Matt (not Goldman)

------------------------------

Bundle: 516
Archive-Message-Number: 6299
Subject: Test of new sendmail.cf on nova.engrg.uwo.ca
Reply-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Administrator)
From: TML Administrator <traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca>
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 93 12:31:15 PST

No need to reply, this is just a message to test that the TML still
accepts incoming messages and queues them correctly for later delivery.
Dan, if you see this message, you're okay :-)

James

__   __/         /   /	    Internet Traveller Mailing List, Administrator
    /     /  /  /   /	   James T. Perkins in Eugene, Oregon, USA
 __/   __/__/__/ _____/   traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca

------------------------------

Bundle: 516
Archive-Message-Number: 6300
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 15:57:37 EST
From: Dan's Traveller Mailing List Mail <tml@engrg.uwo.ca>
Subject: Re: Two-Letter Alligiance Codes...



in bundle 515 message 6296 on Nov 2 20:34:34 Ineluki Seyt-Hamakha <arakins@iastate.edu>   said:
>
>
> design. I would like to know of all of the "official" two
> letter alligiance codes that GDW has come out with over
> the years (including MegaTraveller and Classic eras).
>   I have thought of:

I think Mark Cook was gathering this information a while back...
>
>
>   I can't remember the K'Kree code.
>   Could people please correct any errors I have made above,
> plus make any additions that I have missed.
>   Thank you very much.


Some of these may be from 3rd party products:

Bw - Border Worlds (Whose border I don't remember)
Fa - Federation of Arden (Ask Mark)
Sy - Sylean worlds
La - League of Antares
Jr - Julian Protectorate
Hl - Hegemony of Lorean

Then of course there are the Vargr empires:
        Vd - Dzen Aeng Kho (Society of Equals)
        Ve - Ekhlie Ksafi (40th Squadron)
        Vg - Gaerr Thue (Pact of Gaerr)
        Vk - Kedzudh Aeng (Commanality of Kedzudh)
        Vn - Rukh Aegz (Worlds of Leader Rukh)
        Vp - Thirz Uerra (Thirz Empire)
        Vr - Gnoerrgh Rukh Lloell (Anti-Rukh Coalition)
        Vs - Saekrouth Igr (Saekrouth Dependancy)
        Vt - Thoengling Raghz (Thoengling Empire)
        Vu - Urukhu (Nation of Urukhu)

This is taken from an earlier posting of mine (Feb 4, 1990). There
is also a long list of the remarks (e.g. Fa (Fascinating World))
in bundle #84.

				-Dan


------------------------------

Bundle: 516
Archive-Message-Number: 6301
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1993 09:53:08 +1000
From: langsl@cbr.hhcs.gov.au
Subject: Computerised Library Data


                  I N T E R O F F I C E   M E M O R A N D U M

                                        Date Sent:04-Nov-1993 10:51am
                                        From:     Alistair Langsford
                                                  LANGSFORD ALISTAIR
                                        Dept:     Information Services
                                        Tel No:   289 7870

TO:  Remote Addressee                     ( _traveller@engrg.uwo.ca )


Subject: Computerised Library Data


I am thinking of typing up 'Classic Traveller' Lib data on computer for my
own campaign. I was thinking of using the Windows 'Card File' application
for this as a simple way of doing keyword searches. Before I do this though
has something like this already been done? I'd hate to go to a lot of
effort and then find out that it was already available from somewhere.

Alistair,
langsl@cbr.hhcs.gov.au


------------------------------

Bundle: 516
Archive-Message-Number: 6302
Subject: Re: Two-Letter Codes
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 93 14:13:44 -0800
From: gwh@lurnix.COM


Some potentially important ones you missed (From Reavers' Deep)

Ma	The Grand Dutchy of Marlheim (thru 1121 or so)
Ct	Carter
Pu	Purity
Cb	?
Cd	?
Ly	?
Uh	?
Ga	?

------------------------------

Bundle: 516
Archive-Message-Number: 6303
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1993 16:18:55 +1000
From: langsl@cbr.hhcs.gov.au
Subject: tne combat notes


                  I N T E R O F F I C E   M E M O R A N D U M

                                        Date Sent:04-Nov-1993 05:17pm
                                        From:     Alistair Langsford
                                                  LANGSFORD ALISTAIR
                                        Dept:     Information Services
                                        Tel No:   289 7870

TO:  Remote Addressee                     ( _traveller@engrg.uwo.ca )


Subject: tne combat notes

TNE COMBAT RULES NOTES
======================
Regarding the recent inquiries about TNE combat - these are excerpts from
several relevant TML postings that should help.

Loren Wiseman & Dave Nilsen, in response to Bruce, write:
<> Bruce (pihlab@hhcs.gov.au):
<
< A few answers to your post "a few questions to GDW" (Note:
< these answers represent a rare posting by David Nilsen.
< LKW's comments (if any) are set off _Thusly_):
< ...bits deleted...
< > 9.  The fact that TNE combat does very little damage
< > can mean that combats run on for long periods. In the
< > case of the head and chest rule of saving throws
< > for death by NPCs it goes to the other extreme with
< > one shot kills for NPCs but players dragging on until
< > all their blood has drained away.  There must be
< > some middle ground where realism can at least share
< > the lime light with playability.  What combat mods
< > are people implementing along these lines?
<
< If you feel that characters have too many hit points,
< we suggest rolling 1D10 for damage instead of 1D6. This
< is the simplest system for speeding up killing, and we
< suggest it for those groups who want that change. This
< is not, however, a system change or errata. Its just a
< recommended variant for people who don't like heroic-style
< combat and don't mind creating new PCs all the time.
<
< > 10. We converted our characters to TNE and found
< > the 'feel' of the game to have been totally changed.
< > Preferred weapons now don't penetrate and don't have
< > anywhere near the knock down ability they had before.
< >  To fix the laser weapon fall from grace our GM simply
< > added "1-" to them and the universe has shifted part
< > way back again.  There seems to be a number of misprints
< > in the weapons tables  .... do you have an errata for
< > them yet?
<
< Yes, there are some errata on the weapons table, and
< these have been posted, and we will post additions if
< and when they are necessary. However, the laser issue is
< not a misprint. The rules as written are the way we intend
< for lasers to work against metallic/ceramic armor. We suggest
< the following fix for laser damage: All non-metallic,
< non-ceramic armor, in other words, kevlar, ballistic cloth,
< ballistic weave, animal armor consisting of shells, scales,
< or thick hide, etc., is treated as no armor when hit by a
< laser. Armor consisting of metallic or ceramic plates
< uses the rules as they now read. This is an official
< fix, and will be published as such.

From the TNE Errata posted recently (courtesy of Matt whose last name I
missed - sorry):

<Bundle: 514
<Archive-Message-Number: 6265
<From: mgood@MIT.EDU
<Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 13:39:01 EST
<Subject: TNE Errata from GDW
<
<
<Traveller: The New Era - Errata
<
<Errata and Clarifications to Traveller: The New Era, effective June 30,
<1993, organized by page number.
<
[...stuff deleted...]
<
<Page 288
<Upon further testing, we have decided that the following wound effects
<provide more entertaining and dynamic play, and suggest that all players
<use these instead.
<
<Serious Wounds: the roll to avoid losing consciousness every turn in
<which the character attempts an activity becomes a Difficult roll against
<Constitution.  Characters who have lost consciousness make a Formidable
<roll against their Constitution each turn to attempt to regain
<consciousness.
<
<Critical Wounds: The roll to regain consciousness is made each combat
<turn, and a D100 (percentile) roll against the Constitution attribute.
<
[...stuff deleted...]
<
<Page 351
<Slug Rifles and Carbines
<The double-barrel rifle mentioned in the note is 12mm, not 13, and its
<magazine listing in the table should be 2i.
<
<Page 354
<Small Arms
<Several people have asked if the recoil figures for the 4mm Gauss
<Pistol-13 are in error.  They are not.  Because Traveller: The New Era
<uses a more realistic system (developed for Twilight:2000) for rating
<firearms based on weapon weight, round weight, and muzzle velocity, than
<Traveller did, weapons that were created for Traveller do not always work
<well when using their original Traveller specifications. The recoil is
<high because it is specified as being such a light weapon for its high
<muzzle velocity.  We have theorized that this is a light, easily
<concealable, hold-out weapon that is hard to control.  Another gauss
<pistol design, intended to be more controllable in combat, is shown at the
<bottom of the page. {I reproduced it below--matt}
<
<                                  ----Weight-------
<- ---Price----
<Caliber              TL   Ammo    Empty  Lded  Ammo  Mag   Wpn    Ammo
<4mm Gauss Cbt Auto   13  4mm Gs    0.8   1.02 .0145  15    600  1.3/20
<
<
<
<- --Recoil--
<Weapon              ROF  Dam   Pen    Blk  Mag    SS    Brst      Rng
<4mm Gauss Cbt Auto  3     1   1-Nil   1    15      3     5         30
<
<Page 355
<Lasers
<The Laser Rifle-9 (8cm) should have a Pen of Nil/3-Nil.
<The Laser Rifle-13 (4cm) should have a Pen of 3.  This Penetration does
<not attenuate with distance.
<
<High Energy Weapon
<The numbers listed under "Pen" are the weapons' Penetration Values for
<use against vehicles, see page 297.  The penetration ratings for use
<against personnel according to the rules on page 285 were inadvertently
<omitted.  These ratings are 1-2-10 for all plasma guns and 1/2-1-4 for
<all fusion guns.
<
<Correct ranges for Fusion Rifle-14 is 50, and Fusion Rifle-15 is 70.

Comments
- --------

Our group has converted to TNE and is using the above errata, plus the d10
damage suggestion. We have found that they work well, and the extra damage
makes things just that little bit more fearful for players, though so far
no serious harm has been taken.

We also changed the 2-2-2 for the auto snub pistol HEAP-8 to the 1C rating
for snub revolver's HEAP-8, as we couldn't see why the ammo would perform
differently, and the change made the auto snub pistol useful. So we're
treating this as a misprint. Please let me know if this -isn't- a misprint.

BTW, the 1C penetration on the small arms table is I believe interpreted as
1-1-1, and is merely a shorthand form. There is a comment in the small arms
rules about this difference in meaning from anti vehicle penetration
notation.

OUR GROUP'S VARIANTS
====================

Other variations we are using are:

Double Damage Dice for Outstanding Success:
- -------------------------------------------

When we first read the rules regarding doubling damage if an outstanding
success was achieved it was unclear whether this was double damage which
penetrated, or double the damage dice. We are currently going with the
latter as a way of giving some weapons a chance to do damage in skilled
hands at short range.

I'd appreciate knowing what the -correct- interpretation is though, if
anyone would like to comment.


Autofire Variant:
- -----------------

None of us liked the idea of rolling quite so many d20s, or using rules
which were a different form from the rest of the combat section. The
following variant is under test. Comments welcome.

Roll to hit as though a normal direct fire shot. However, use the recoil
value listed for bursts rather than single shots.

If you hit, the number of hits depends on burst size and range, as given by
the table below:

Burst
Size 	 Short	   Medium    Long      Extreme
- -----------------------------------------------
3   	  d3 hits  d2 hits    1 hit     1 hit
5    	  d5 hits  d3 hits   d2 hits    1 hit
10  	 d10 hits  d5 hits   d3 hits   d2 hits

50  - 	 treat as 10 round burst above, but each rolled hit represents 3
actual hits.

It is assumed that for 3,5, and 10 round burst weapons the rate of fire is
so great that all of the burst leaves the weapon before the recoil starts
to take much effect, and so the grouping is reasonably close. For this
reason all the hits scored are against a single target. [This is inspired
by the 3 round burst rule in Cyberpunk 2020. If people think this is
reasonable/unreasonable, please comment].

The 50 round 'long burst' is assumed to hit targets in the danger zone as
described in the rules, with the hits being as evenly distributed as
possible between the available targets.

For spraying an area with autofire:
- -----------------------------------

At least 2 bursts may be fired - at this stage recoil penalties are likely
to build dramatically (remember to calculate as though it was a direct fire
single shot)

The danger zone used is as described in the rules.

Roll for each burst to see if it hits the area.

For each burst that hits roll to see how many hits are scored.

The hits are distributed as evenly as possible between the available
targets.

Burst Modification:
- ------------------

A 10 round burst weapon may instead fire only 5 or 3 rounds in a burst. In
such a case reduce the recoil number by 1 or 2 respectively.

Likewise a 5 round burst weapon could be reduced to 3 rounds for a recoil
reduction of 1.


- --

I hope the repeat errata helps those who were confused.


Alistair,
langsl@cbr.hhcs.gov.au

------------------------------

Bundle: 516
Archive-Message-Number: 6304
Subject: TNE virus revisited.
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 11:49:38 GMT+4622364:40
From: goldman@orac.cray.com (Goldman of Chaos -- postmaster CRI-US)
Reply-To: goldman@orac.cray.com

I've had a change of opinion about the viability
of the TNE virus.  This is a result of the recent
successful attack on a number of computers I'm
responsible for.  Everything is under control now;
however, we were disconnected from the internet
for a few days while we sorted things out.

I'll work up some game useable details or a short
story in a few days.  Basically something about a
scoutship with computer problems that the captain
has been intending to fix for some time.  The
computer problems resulted in the first few attacks
failing, giving them enough warning to escape major
damage.  Of course this will all be fiction ;-)

Matt 'Kill them all' Goldman

- --
Matthew Goldman  E-mail: goldman@orac.cray.com Work: (612) 683-3061

	"The DCI does not wake with a hangover and decide
	 to assassinate someone."          -Alec Chambers

------------------------------

Bundle: 516
Archive-Message-Number: 6305
Date:         Thu, 04 Nov 93 12:10:01 CST
From: Joe Heck <CCJOE@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu>
Subject:      Re: Computerised Library Data

Before you start plugging away, I have an "unofficial" copy of the Library
data in text form. Originally, it developed off OCR'd data, but recently I
received an entire text from the HIWG which is available for people to
peruse at their leisure. At some point, I would like to organize it into an
RTF format (a project the CAT group was sort of working on for a while) and
a basic database format for easier access by those traveller's that use
their handy hand-comps while gaming.

Anyway, the data is available in a seperate FTP site from sunbane. When it's
official (i.e. done with copyrights included), I'll most likely port it to
sunbane and recover that space. God knows when we'll get that far though...

ftp to ghost.cc.missouri.edu /PUB/Traveller/HIWG/a.txt b.txt c.txt ... z.txt

enjoy!

 joe                          University of Missouri - Columbia
 ccjoe@mizzou1.missouri.edu   (314) 882-5000

------------------------------

Bundle: 516
Archive-Message-Number: 6306
Date:         Thu, 04 Nov 93 14:00:28 EST
From: "Susan M. Shock" <34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Subject:      Miniatures

Does anyone know when the Traveller minatures from RAFM are supposed to be
released? I understand they're doing both characters and starships.

------------------------------

Bundle: 516
Archive-Message-Number: 6307
From: fok@scf.usc.edu ([Caffine Achiever!])
Subject: TNE:Combat notes comments
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1993 00:12:30 -0800 (PST)

I've been using the d10 damage roll since TNE first came out.  My group is some what blood thirsty and it seems to work
out quite
well.  I have a rather large list of variation I'm using (and still testing) for personnal combat.  To be fair I've base
d quit a bit
of it on the Phoenix Command system from Leading Edge games.

One item I'd like to point out is that the 3 round burst rule used in Cyberpunk is based on the performance of the G11 w
eapon in
final development for the German Army.  This weapon fires fast enought to achieve the recoil effect only when it fires i
n the
3-round burst mode and at a specific range.  This feature only increase the likelyhood of a single hit at a specific des
igned range.
Under normal area fire the G11 sprays just like any other weapon.  In my varient I gave weapons with this feature a DM e
qual to:
              rounds per burst / 3, ignore all fractions.
multiple hit can be score for each number rolled that's less then the required to hit number.  At LONG range an addition
al hit is
scored for every two number less then the required to hit number rolled.  No multiple hit is allowed at EXTREME range.

If anyone is interested in obtaining a copy of my rule variant (whick covers combat visibility, mod. wound and recovery,
 combat
sequence, guided rounds) let me know and I can upload it to uwo.ca. (~16 pages)

- ----Ed F.----


------------------------------

Bundle: 516
Archive-Message-Number: 6308
From: mgood@MIT.EDU
Subject: Minuatures (sp??) and Combat
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 93 10:00:28 EST

About minuatures: on the BL advert that I received from GDW, the
back page actually SHOWS the ship minuatures.  I don't have any
idea about the release date.  I'm going to mail the person who
sculpted them (Bob Murch) a letter this weekend, and I'll ask if
he knows what the release dates are, what other figs they're
doing, etc.   I would imagine they're being cautious to avoid
another Space:1889 fiasco (they did the Space:1889 figs too).

A Few More Dreary Comments About Combat:

>We also changed the 2-2-2 for the auto snub pistol HEAP-8 to the 1C rating
>for snub revolver's HEAP-8, as we couldn't see why the ammo would perform
>differently, and the change made the auto snub pistol useful. So we're
>treating this as a misprint. Please let me know if this -isn't- a misprint.

According to the FF&S draft that wildstar sent me, HEAP small arms
ammo ALWAYS has the penetration 2-2-2.  When GDW did the weapons
conversions from CT/MT to TNE, they converted them directly, which
had a few odd results, like the low-velocity (therefor low damage) snub
pistol that could no longer penetrate.  I suspect the 1C may be a misprint,
but I don't know for sure: by the FF&S gun creation system, it is.

>BTW, the 1C penetration on the small arms table is I believe interpreted as
>1-1-1, and is merely a shorthand form. There is a comment in the small arms
>rules about this difference in meaning from anti vehicle penetration
>notation.

No, 1C indicates that the round is explosive.  I don't have the rules with
me, but if you can't find it I'll be happy to find the page number.

FF&S should hit the shelves shortly, and then you can create all the
"official" guns you want, and be fairly certain that you're adhereing
to the rules..  but having FUN is the most important thing, right??

Matt "Man With No Name" Goodman (Not Goldman)

------------------------------

Bundle: 516
Archive-Message-Number: 6309
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1993 5:13:33 -0600 (CST)
From: DTESTERM@charlie.usd.edu
Subject: Penetration ratings

I have a question about the the penetration ratings as they appear in TNE.
Examples of confusing entries are the 10mm Snub and 4mm gauss pistols. It has always
been my understanding when dealing with small arms fire versus character armor
that the number listed under penetration is the number of dice lost at that
range bracket versus one point of armor. Example: a G11 doing 3 dice damage and
with a penetration value of 1-nil hits a character with one point of armor on
the body location hit (and is standing at short range). The hit does 2d damage
plus one point for blunt trauma. My confusion stems from the fact that the
penetration ratings for the two weapons mentioned above is equal to the dice
of damage that they do--which means: two dice damage with 2-nil pen hits one
point of armor and is reduced to two points of damage from blunt trama, which
is the same as a nil rating would produce, so why don't they just say "nil"
in the first place since that is the effect anyway? Am I reading this wrong?
Is there some notation I missed? (Incidently, I solved the problem for myself,
at least until I get FF&S, by altering the codes of a lot of weapons to match
more logical stats from other "house" systems.)
DT

------------------------------

Bundle: 516
Archive-Message-Number: 6310
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1993 5:16:42 -0600 (CST)
From: DTESTERM@charlie.usd.edu
Subject: Miniatures

At Gen Con, BL was being sold with a coupon which let the purchasee go over
to another booth and pick up two Traveller ship miniatures off the new line.
Only about half the ships were at the Con, but the ones being sold were from
the new line and were being sold already.

------------------------------

Bundle: 516
Archive-Message-Number: 6311
Date:         Sat, 06 Nov 93 12:33:34 EST
From: "Susan M. Shock" <34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Subject:      Traveller Navigator

Has anyone seen or beta-tested (or does anyone own) the Traveller Navigator
program that was advertised in Challenge 70? I know it's for Windows 3.1, but I
was wondering if anyone could tell me any more about it.

------------------------------

Bundle: 516
Archive-Message-Number: 6312
From: rancke@diku.dk
Subject: Hand-made high-tech
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1993 00:03:10 +0100 (MET)

Adrian Hurt:
>>Dan's Traveller Mailing List Mail <tml@engrg.uwo.ca> writes:
>>
>>I think one would have to know what your definition of hand made was.
>>I believe there is a car manufacturer in the south U.S. that hand
>>manufactures limos (Blackhawk?). In this case all parts are indivdually
>>fitted, milled, etc. But using a drill press or a lathe isn't really
>>hand made is it?
>
>I assume this society does allow the use of tools, otherwise they wouldn't
>have progressed past the Stone Age.  In fact, they wouldn't have even made
>it into the Stone Age!  Using a flint knife isn't really hand made, is it?
>:-)
>
>If the objection to mass-production is philosophical, what they may demand
>is that an individual - or even a single group - be responsible for the
>entire production of a given item.  And the maker(s) will take some pride
>in their product, to the extent of embellishing it a little - signing it,
>decorating it, or in some other way adding an organic touch.

Spot on, Adrian. That is exactly what I had in mind.


Scott Kellogg:
>As to the ability to hand make stuff, it depends on your definition
>of hand made.  Your TL 3 tools would be hand made.  With those tools
>one makes TL 4 tools.  With those, one proceeds to make TL 5 tools,
>6...7...?  With your philosophical preference for hand made stuff,
>sounds like a crew of craftsmen who would be very protective of
>their tools (They'd have to be to build the planes, TV sets (starships)
>you seem to want them too.)
>
>But, would your definition of hand made allow them to use a tool
>(machine?) that would grow silicon chips?  Would it allow them to use
>a tool (machine?) that would allow them to etch a silicon chip?
>All one is doing is using a very sophisticated tool.  It is not a
>"Factory", but is it a tool, or a machine?

Depends on how the machine is used. If it turns out identical chips by
the dozen it's a no-no. If the craftsman can look at one of his chips
and say: 'Yeah, I remember that chip, that's the one I made last Tuesday',
then it's ok.

James T Perkins:
>Dan? writes:
>>I think that this type of culture is interesting, however. What happens
>>to visitors to the planet?
>
>rancke@diku.dk writes:
>>That's what I want my players to find out some day ;-) They get treated to
>>anything from a cold shoulder to physical abuse, depending on the bigotry
>>of the native.
>
>If the world is fairly isolated from regular offworld traffic, there
>will probably be people very eager to leave as well, like any
>restrictive society needs an escape valve. Witness the number of
>Pennsylvania Dutch children who leave the community to make their way in
>the big city in popular society, or people from small towns or students
>from the 3rd world who never go back. Or people from Eugene Oregon who
>leave for Portland or Seattle (I can sure see why :-).
>
>Or think of the two characters from _Doc_Hollywood_ who wanted to leave
>their home town and go to LA. The young lass would have done nearly
>anything to get Ben Stone to take her with him. Maybe an idea for a
>plotlet in there. "Back to the Interstate, Ben Stone".

A very good idea, James. I shall certainly include an encounter with
someone like that. Thanks.


THOMS, KEITH:
>From Dan Corrin...
>>I don't think that any electronic components could be hand made.
>>(depending on your definition). It would be pretty hard to even make
>>vacuum tubes by hand (which of course includes televisions). A lot
>
>  What about gray areas like imported electronic parts that are then
>hand assembled or even just custom packaged?  An end user is typically
>more interested in what the product looks and feels like than what's
>inside.  Nobody would know but the repairman, and who do you think
>would be fixing a one-of-a-kind design anyway?

Absolutely contrary to the law and the prophets, but these people would
have the same proportion of rouges and iconoclasts as any other human
population. So a local villain buying such evil stuff off the PCs would
be a definite possibility.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "A  subsector  official  pompously states that the
        subsector  armed  forces  have  four Kinunir class
        ships in service,  each with enough troop strength
        to put down any military operations that threathen
        the peace of the Imperium."

                        ---Adventure 1, The Kinunir

------------------------------

Bundle: 516
Archive-Message-Number: 6313
From: skellogg@lonestar.utsa.edu (Scott S. Kellogg)
Subject: Hand Made Tech
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 93 21:04:44 CST

It occurs to me that the hardest thing to do without building
a "Factory" would not so much be the manufacturing of the goods,
but the mining of the minerals involved.

I have a hard time imagining a mine pulling out enough usable
ore and not looking like a "Factory" as Hans has described it.
- --
Scott 2G Kellogg
Big Cows...  BIG Cows...  Motor Power Cows...


------------------------------

Bundle: 516
Archive-Message-Number: 6314
Subject: Antares Sector...
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 93 15:24:14 CST
From: Ineluki Seyt-Hamakha <arakins@iastate.edu>


  I am developing my own campaign, set in the
Antares sector. I was wondering was information has
be "officially" created concerning this area of
known space. I know the following:

  - Actual Layout (taken from the .sec file from ftp.engrg.uwo.ca)
  - the Archduke of the area is Brzk, a Vargr.
  - the primary power players in the area are the Imperium,
    the Julian Protectorate, the League of Antares, and various
    Vargr states.

  Does anyone know (or know where I can find) more information, such
as what type of governments the Julian Protectorate and League of
Antares has...and races there?
  Of course, if no "official" information exists, I'll make up
my own backgound...but I am hoping to stay close to the "real"
traveller world...
  Thanks...

+---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                    | Iowa State University             |
| Applications Programmer         | Center for Agricultural and       |
| arakins@iastate.edu             |     Rural Development             |
+---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+

------------------------------

Bundle: 516
Archive-Message-Number: 6315
From: adrian@cee.hw.ac.uk (Adrian Hurt)
Subject: Re: Hand-made high-tech
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 93 9:16:26 WET

rancke@diku.dk writes:
> >
> >If the objection to mass-production is philosophical, what they may demand
> >is that an individual - or even a single group - be responsible for the
> >entire production of a given item.  And the maker(s) will take some pride
> >in their product, to the extent of embellishing it a little - signing it,
> >decorating it, or in some other way adding an organic touch.
>
> Spot on, Adrian. That is exactly what I had in mind.

Oh, good.  Now, assuming I've got some idea of how this society works:

> Scott Kellogg:
> >
> >But, would your definition of hand made allow them to use a tool
> >(machine?) that would grow silicon chips?
>
> Depends on how the machine is used. If it turns out identical chips by
> the dozen it's a no-no. If the craftsman can look at one of his chips
> and say: 'Yeah, I remember that chip, that's the one I made last Tuesday',
> then it's ok.

I don't know if silicon chips can be made one at a time.  What the craftsman
(or crafts team, probably) should be able to do is make a whole wafer by
themselves, and identify a chip from that wafer.  Treat the wafer as the
individual's product, and break bits off it to be used as necessary.

Presumably these people don't grow salt one crystal at a time, or sell
orange juice in handy, mouthful-sized containers.  You buy a big lump of
the product, and break bits off as necessary.  The same applies to silicon
chips.

Alternatively, maybe they've gone from discrete components to VLSI in one
step, and produce a whole computer on one mega-chip.  These people are
likely to be the first to make a portable Model/9 computer.

- --
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cee
 UUCP: ..!uknet!cee.hw.ac.uk!adrian  |  ARPA:  adrian@cee.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Bundle: 516
Archive-Message-Number: 6316
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 93 09:09:39 CST
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pete@biochem.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Zero-G activities

[Forwarded to traveller@engrg.uwo.ca, came to traveller-request alone --
James]

I was recently at a modern dance performance and ended up in a discussion with
a dancer ( my wife, the one who drags me to these things) about zero-G dance.

We decided the arena (theatre?) would consist of two flattened bowls, one
'above' and one 'below' the dance area.  The audience would be arrayed around
3/4 or 1/2 of the circle formed and would have normal gravity.

A performance would have changes in the grav level during or between pieces,
so the performance could easily take place in any gravity environment.  We
thought there should be a pole (or poles) in the center (or around) for the
no-grav portions or it would be a series of 'launches' and 'landings'...
probably pretty boring after a while (then again, this is dance).

The high points would be acrobatic turns and twists, and interaction of two
dancers, using each others' bodies as their 'reaction mass'.  Obviously if
one dancer pushes off from another the other also travels at an equal speed
in the opposite direction, unless the second dancer already had a vector of
travel.

A last thing to point out is that even the least acrobatic forms of this art
would be dangerous.  If your (burly, high mass) dancer slings you the wrong
way, or you cannot catch the 'bounce bar' just right you could go slamming
into the wall with quite a bit of force, breaking ankles, knees, skulls etc

I could even see a scenario where a dancer is killed in the 'stage' by a rival.

btw all these zero-G uses are great, but why are we limiting the concept to
the center of a space habitat?  It seems like, after TL10 or so, gravity
controls are cheap enough for performacne use, sports, public entertainment,
and even private use.  It would also find many industrial uses.

I am still working on the Habitat I mentioned a few weeks ago.  I may write
some details soon for comment.

------------------------------
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by the University of
Western Ontario. All opinions and materials below are the responsibility
of the originator.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 517  6317 08-Nov-1993 Palmer T. Davis  Re: TNE virus revisited << >Date: Thu,
 517  6318 09-Nov-1993 "Anthony K. Bag  Virus&Antares <<    The new round of co
 517  6319 09-Nov-1993 "Anthony K. Bag  Antares <<  Sorry, I forgot to mention
 517  6320 09-Nov-1993 Jerry Sanders    THE TRAVELLER CHRONICLE << Hi. My name
 517  6321 09-Nov-1993 Mark Watson      Experience Rules << Hoi,
 517  6322 09-Nov-1993 Curtis Peer      Challenge 71 << Disclaimer: This is Joh
 517  6323 10-Nov-1993 Goldman of Chao  Computers and power usage. << TML Admin
 517  6324 10-Nov-1993 Will Hartung -   FF&S << A couple of weeks ago, it was p
 517  6325 11-Nov-1993 Jo_Grant.LOTUSI  Steve Jackson praises MegaTraveller <<
 517  6326 11-Nov-1993 Adrian Hurt      Re: Computers and power usage << goldma
 517  6327 11-Nov-1993 Jo_Grant.LOTUSI  3D Traveller, trade, and combat <<  The
 517  6328 11-Nov-1993 mgood@MIT.EDU    FF&S << Hi!
 517  6329 11-Nov-1993 Curtis Peer      Balkanization codes << I got a look at
 517  6330 12-Nov-1993 "Anthony K. Bag  Computers <<   Re: Virus, Computer Powe
 517  6331 12-Nov-1993 Curtis Peer      TML FF&S Preview << For those who don't
 517  6332 12-Nov-1993 Jo Jaquinta      LIBRARY DATA & SYSGEN <<  The latest ve
 517  6333 12-Nov-1993 james vassilako  3d star maps (viewer available) << Jo_G
 517  6334 13-Nov-1993 Duncan Law-Gree  Signal GK#7 << Signal GK is a MegaTrave
 517  6335 13-Nov-1993 Mike Basinger    Traveller Players' Forms << I just got
 517  6336 15-Nov-1993 Mark Urbin       player forms in computer format... << N

------------------------------

Bundle: 517
Archive-Message-Number: 6317
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 93 14:15:09 -0500
From: ptd2@po.CWRU.Edu (Palmer T. Davis)
Subject: Re: TNE virus revisited
Reply-To: ptd2@po.CWRU.Edu (Palmer T. Davis)



>Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 11:49:38 GMT+4622364:40
>From: goldman@orac.cray.com (Goldman of Chaos -- postmaster CRI-US)
>
>I've had a change of opinion about the viability
>of the TNE virus.  This is a result of the recent
>successful attack on a number of computers I'm
>responsible for.  Everything is under control now;
>however, we were disconnected from the internet
>for a few days while we sorted things out.

I don't have problems with the concept of a destructive virus
in Traveller.  I don't even have problems with the concept of
such a virus getting through the presumably excellent defenses
that a TL-15 society would develop in response to having been
exposed to other vires at various points in its development.
However, the idea of an unrecoverable virus that affects everyone
is indefensible.  And even if you fudge things enough to make
such a beast possible, the details of the TNE virus are still
not believeable

T0_begin with, any high tech so{ ciety would al=&st certainly
have been exposed to virus attacks of a degr!@# of so
						     phistication
worthy of that society's technology before, and developed d#fen$,;
Smart, self-ad{AS%GHB=~`
			@$ABAEF8m3B
	0J<O`F'_``!29$'Y``&!%"\P+@!A_P``(_A03UA/4H)R'[*";`#_7DAY
``%MOV'_```CWD*Y``&`B$SN!`S_]$Y>3G5.5@``("X`"$JY``&`B&<:0KD``8"(
2'D``8"88?_ which unless the operators were really stupid __^UH8?\``%+
46$\O`&'_!/_38$Y>3G5.5O_P2.<X`"@N``AOF6Y
					!G(?LH1L#DAY``%MQV
'_``!9D%A/)CD$`06P2'@`#&'_``!$4")`0?D``8$4
   qqq
(K!.`$*I``A(>``!+PE(>0`!;"!A_P``6X0D/``!;"!(;O_P+P)(
>``#8?____B*2'@``4'Y``&V4" incompatible machinery from different
manu\P3`!A_P``8T;nd tech levels wouldn't>_``@
+KP````!
	)A
	  _P``7;YA____+P
^*HCPP0!!;!,[@`<_^1.7DYU3E8``$Y>3G5.5@``2.<X("1N``@
H+@`,2'D``);T(`1F!B`\``&VT"\`8?\``%7B)@`O"F'_```@^B!`((-"J``$2'@``TAY
``%MUB\*8?\$_]WVWOP`&$J`9G)!^0`!;
				 \2$K(09A@O""\*8?\$_]V<4$]*
@&8(<@$CP0`!@(AT`4'Y``&! over a communications channel!  Why
would %"!P+@`2$+(29C0O"B\(8?\$_]UR4$]*@&8D
0?D``;90(8,L`$J$9@9(>``!8`9(>0``45@O`F'_``!0B manual override F`
(4H)R'[*";+1, is only common sen[@0<__!
 .7DYU3E8``"\++PHF;@`(2&L``V'_```(TEA/2H!G+B\`8?\``"`X
)$!"DB\++PMA_P3_W3183U*`+P!A_P``0^0N@&'_!/_=`B5```0D;O_X)F[__$Y>3G5.5@``
+PHO`B0
	N``@O.0`!R%0O`F'_```?J"
				1`4$]*BF8$0H!@1DJ2
9P0@$F`^2JH`!&<R+RH`!"\"8?\```HD4$]*@
&<22'D``);T+P!A_P``5)`D hope, Loren, that you folks at GDW don't
expect us to beli@&`4+RH`!&'_``!#VD*J``0@/``!MM`D+O_X)&[__$Y>3G5.5@``+P
HO`B0N
	``@O.0`!R%0O`F'_`` of well-done examples of this like _@001_&
nd _A_Fire_Upon_`?,"1`4$]*BF8$0H!@&DJJ``od.  Not for a minute would
1F$"\2+P)A_P```?@E
0``$8`0
@*@`$)"[_^"1N__Q.7		DYU3E8``"\*+P(D;@`(=`%!^0`!@10@<"X`
$A"R$F96+PHO"&'_!/_;]%!/2H!F1D'Y st of all is that it completely
ruins the spirit of _Travell``&V4$*P+`!R`[*"9QIM"'("LH)G
"F`@<@^R@F<28!@O.0`!@(Q@$B\Y``&`D&`*+SD``8"48`)"IR\"8?\``$[J4$]2@G(?L
H)LDD'Y``%MOQ(2LA!F%B\(+PIA_P3_VXI03TJ`9@9"N0`!@(@O:-)





- --
Palmer T. Davis      ___      UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of
<ptd2@po.cwru.edu>   \X/   this IMPORTANT Information is ENCOURAGED.

------------------------------

Bundle: 517
Archive-Message-Number: 6318
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 93 12:04:02 GMT
From: "Anthony K. Baggaley" <MCDAPAB@cms.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk>
Subject: Virus&Antares

   The new round of comments on Virus brought some things to mind...(Viruses
 were on my mind recently- this areas been hit with a new strain of Beijing
 flu so badly I'm reminded of 'The Stand':))
   When the Virus idea came out just about everyone hated it, for a wide
 variety of reasons- it sounded stupid, it didn't fit Traveller, it was
 unnecessary. I still think all those apply, but as time goes by the idea gets
 almost reasonable (....well a bit less stupid). Current events like that
 wonderful Virus-protection for Windows and Flash-programable EEPROMS  show
 that as computers become more common they have to become transparent, and
 soon people have no idea WHAT rubbish the makers put in there (Hardware or
 Software).  If that is continued into 1120 TI then the concept that a Virus
 can get into a computer and run rings around the person using 'Sys-Op for
 Windows 482.3' is OK.
   Besides, I am sure that a large number of Traveller players have considered
 the possibility of AI Viruses before TNE came out- I did and more than one
 person on the TML has mentioned it. So overall I've stopped hating TNE
 because of the Virus.
   I think the reason the Virus sounds so wrong in Traveller is that it doesn't
 match with how Traveller Computers appeared in the rules. In Book 2 they
 were one step above the Difference Engine- the MIGHT have used that new
 fangled Silicon Chip stuff (or maybe not- the power consumption was closer to
 a BIG electric motor turning those brass  wheels very fast....) It was a
 logical step to assume it included various control systems in the cost/mass
 as well, but then MT came out and you had to add them seperately (I used the
 MT design system a lot, but now it's gone I feel relived :))
   To make the Virus work, suddenly all these computers had to become hugely
 powerful optical/organic systems, that were beyond the understanding of those
 operating them. It just didn't seem right that the Model 1bis went from
 VAX to HAL in one step....
   OK, so I'm exagerating- but they could have at least given PCs a chance to
 use those super-supercomputers for useful tasks before they suddenly become
 sentient/insane/homicidal :)

   Still, now TNE is here it's back to the Transistors.....

                           Suffering from the Virus
                                                Anthony K.
  NEW THIS CHRISTMAS!!!-
                      LATEST RELEASES OF TRAVELLER BENDY TOYS!!!

  Zhodani (with special 'evil psionic' feature! Eyes light up when turban
           pressed!) (Batteries not included)

  Virus      (For MegaDrive, Super NES, CD-I, IBM PC, Amiga and Mac.)
           Plug in the cartidge/insert your disk, and it flashes ASCII garbage
           on the screen and tries to blow up your TV!!!

------------------------------

Bundle: 517
Archive-Message-Number: 6319
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 93 14:25:34 GMT
From: "Anthony K. Baggaley" <MCDAPAB@cms.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk>
Subject: Antares

 Sorry, I forgot to mention this  my post on the Virus, and since I listed it
 in the header, I feel obliged....
 Re: Antares Info-
 Antares+the Julian Protectorate+ the League of Antares have turned up quite
 often in recent issues of Challenge (sorry if you already knew...)
 and
 Some work on Antares was done by HIWG. I think the League (or some other part)
 was described by Duncan Law-Green. He's on this list, maybe he'll respond
 now I've mentioned his name, maybe he'll kill me. The stuff in Challenge is
 partly based on the background he wrote, and he's a bit annoyed that area he
 descibed has been wracked by civil war and turned into bad-guys. (but at
 least he gets credited occasionly). So look to HIWG for more....
                         Fever Dreaming
                                    Ant)o*@ E/

------------------------------

Bundle: 517
Archive-Message-Number: 6320
From: Jerry Sanders <xminusjs@indirect.com>
Subject: THE TRAVELLER CHRONICLE
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 93 10:56:42 MST

Hi. My name is Paul Sanders, and I am new to the TML.

I am contributing editor for a new digest sized 'zine devoted to
Traveller. The name of the 'zine is THE TRAVELLER CHRONICLE.
Current issue is #2. I'd like to list the table of contents for both
issues, and subscription infomation. If anyone has any questions,
comments or advice, please contact me at: xminusjs@indirect.com
Kevin Knight, the editor, can also be reached at: K.KNIGHT1@genie.geis.com

The snail mail address for TTC is:

                       Sword of the Knight Publications
                       2820 Sunset Lane #116
                       Henderson, KY 42420
                       USA


Subscriptions info:

     The Traveller Chronicle, a magazine devoted to Traveller in all of
its forms, is published quarterly at the beginning of January, April, July
and October. The individual price of each issue is $3.50. One year
subscriptions are $12.00. Please make all payments in US funds drawn on a
US bank or US Post Office.


Table of Contents for issue #1  (56 pages)

Martial Arts for MegaTraveller
By K.Knight White Wolf     by Mike Mikesh   (Vargr Adventure)
Robots of the Imperium     by Thomas Stone
Planetary Profiles     by K.Knight   (Zila, Aramis)
The Trap of Triton     by Gary Kalin   (Traveller fiction, pt. 1 of 3)
Again, Oytritsyu'a     by Charles E. Gannon with vehicle design by Rob Dean
Field of Fire     by Gary Kalin   (rules supplement)


Table of Contents for issue #2   (56 pages)

The Far Frontiers     by Dale Kemper   (pt.1 of a complete sector)
Mercury Quest     by Gary Kalin   (Traveller fiction, pt. 2 of 3)
How to Annoy an Aslan     by James A. Holden
   (Aslan reactions, an addition to Solomani & Aslan)
Count or Country     by Charles E. Gannon
   (MegaTraveller Adventure nugget)
Money Makes the Worlds Go Around     by Terry McInnes
   (Banking & Finance in Traveller)
The Zhodani Brain     by Michael Brines
   (Horror/adventure set in an Imperial Research Station)
Astrogator's Update to Diaspora Sector     by Charles E. Gannon
   (Everything missing from Astrogators Guide...)
But I wanted My Character To...     by K.Knight
   (A method of deliberately creating TNE characters)
A Solomani Safari     by Charles E. Gannon
   (An Adventure across Diaspora)



For those of you have already seen issue #1, I would like to say that we
have greatly improved the graphic quality of issue #2. We have also gone
to a slick cardstock cover, and intend to go to two color covers  with
issue #3 and hopefully to full color covers with issue #4.

We have tried to give TTC the look and feel (as well as quality articles) of
the early JTAS', High Passage and Traveller's Digest. I hope interested
Travellers will take a look and let me know what you think, as well as let
me know what you'd like to see in future issues. We also welcome articles
and artwork....if there is enough interest here, I could post the
Submissions Guidelines.

Strephon Lives,

Paul Sanders

------------------------------

Bundle: 517
Archive-Message-Number: 6321
Date: 09 Nov 93 16:36:32 EST
From: Mark Watson <100022.3361@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Experience Rules

Hoi,

There was a question about experience rules for traveller:

Way back, this used to come up all the time ... anyone who moved over
from D&D to Traveller wanted to know where the experience rules were.
So we all developed our own house rules for experience points. When the
instruction skill came out alot of this went by the by - if you wanted
a skill you got someone to teach you it. The group I used to referee
had by this time got used to the house rules, however ....

I have a somewhat complex system I developed back then, based on the
fact that Traveller and Runequest were my favourite RP games (still
are).

Basically:
- - each game session the player might be awarded an experience point in
a particular skill. A natural 12 on a 2d6 for any roll gets a bonus
point. In practice the expectation is that a point WILL be awarded
unless the player's character really screws up, or dies.
- - the points went into a pool, but a list was kept of the skills
where each characters' points had been gained
- - when the player has enough points, he/she can expend them on a skill
roll in any one of the skills on the list. To qualify for a the roll,
the player needs (3*(S+6)) points, where S is the hoped for new skill
level (so for skill-3, you need 27 points).
- - the player rolls once on 2D6, modified by Int. The modified result
must be greater than or equal to S+6.

In practice, given that the interval between gaming sessions tended to
be 1 week of game time (another house rule was that the session
finished after the players went into jump), the result was a decent fit
for the progression of skills acquisition during character generation.
Once this fact was explained, failing the skill role after all the
scrimping and saving was not a big issue - the players were fairly
philosophical about it. But it did allow a character to muster out in
his/her 20s and continue to progress. When instruction came along, that
allowed characters to move up to level-0 or 1 in a new skill and then
use the skills system to progress further. I also kept track of a few
key NPCs during the period, so that they also developed along with the
player characters.

For lengthy periods of rest (eg one character is recovering in a
meditank), characters could also develop via practice: provided the
referee agrees that facilities are available (ie no swimming practice
on a desert world) the character needs to pass a Det roll to pick up a
skill point. Back then I had a Det characteristic (called Motivation)
but I rolled it separately - I don't think the basing of it on Int/End
in MT is a particularly bright idea. Characters with low Motivation
picked up interesting contacts down the bar instead ...

A few fairly sedentary skills could also be practiced while in
jumpspace, but in fact most skills are difficult to develop in the
confines of a small ship, effectively travelling on autopilot.

The intention was to take the Runequest idea of making moving up in
skills more difficult the further you wanted to go. It worked out OK
for me, but it requires a little maturity on the part of the players to
take those failed skill rolls.

How you'd do it under TNE I've no idea ...

Mark

------------------------------

Bundle: 517
Archive-Message-Number: 6322
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1993 18:29:28 -0500
From: curtis@sbcs.sunysb.edu (Curtis Peer)
Subject: Challenge 71

Disclaimer: This is John Bogan, not Curtis Peer.

I picked up Challenge 71 the other day, and it had some items of intrest.

Frank Chadwick and Dave Nilsen had an article on Lasers in Space Combat,
critiques of which I'll leave to those better versed in the ins and outs
of lasers.

The Brilliant Lances design notes are in there. I'm glad to hear the
first mention of "Brilliant Lances Express", slated for 1994, which
will cover big battles with lots of BIG ships.

Traveller News Service is coming back on line, as Loren mentioned.

There's some problems with the "Straits of Magellan" scenario, though.

A "no spoilers" critique of the problems is this:

a) transit time between the inner and outer system is apparently
   about four hours.
b) the ship they intercept is supposed to have travelled from two
   parsecs away in realspace, taking 70 years to do so.

Maybe in MegaTraveller, but not with the fuel constraints of TNE.

To travel 2 parsecs in 70 years, the ship will have to be travelling
at almost 10% the speed of light.  0.1c works out to 1800 hexs/turn
in Brilliant Lances.  Using its jump fuel, the Valor-class is able
to make up to almost 700 hexes/turn, providing you feel no need to
slow down:) , most other ships reach far lower velocities if they
exhaust their fuel.

If you changed the scenario so that the intercepted ship jumped
in but couldn't maneuver or signal, so the crew went into low berth.
To account for why it wasn't found if you assume the shakedown
flight only travells several hours away from its home port, rather than
the days or weeks needed for TNE in-system travel, have the Magellan
operate from a base in the outer system, rather than from the main
world itself.


In other sections, I'm left wondering why they used a Far Trader and
Fiery-class escort to illustrate a 2300 article :)

Cheers,

John H Bogan

------------------------------

Bundle: 517
Archive-Message-Number: 6323
Subject: Computers and power usage.
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 8:47:24 GMT+4474074:40
From: goldman@orac.cray.com (Goldman of Chaos -- postmaster CRI-US)
Reply-To: goldman@orac.cray.com

TML Admin said the following:
> Bundle: 517
> Archive-Message-Number: 6318
> Date: Tue, 09 Nov 93 12:04:02 GMT
> From: "Anthony K. Baggaley" <MCDAPAB@cms.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk>
> Subject: Virus&Antares

>    I think the reason the Virus sounds so wrong in Traveller is that it doesn't
>  match with how Traveller Computers appeared in the rules. In Book 2 they
>  were one step above the Difference Engine- the MIGHT have used that new
>  fangled Silicon Chip stuff (or maybe not- the power consumption was closer to
>  a BIG electric motor turning those brass  wheels very fast....) It was a
>  logical step to assume it included various control systems in the cost/mass
>  as well, but then MT came out and you had to add them seperately (I used the
>  MT design system a lot, but now it's gone I feel relived :))

I used to think that the power consumption and size of the computers
was really out of line.  Then I started working for Cray Research.

Really fast machines with about the same floor space requirements and
power consumption as Classic Traveller computers.  We're not talking
about Macintoshes and PC clones you plug into the wall after all.

Matt

- --
Matthew Goldman  E-mail: goldman@orac.cray.com Work: (612) 683-3061

	"The DCI does not wake with a hangover and decide
	 to assassinate someone."          -Alec Chambers

------------------------------

Bundle: 517
Archive-Message-Number: 6324
Subject: FF&S
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 13:28:57 PST
From: Will Hartung - Master Rallyeist <villy@uunet.uu.net>

A couple of weeks ago, it was posted that wildstar was looking for
folks who wanted rumple through a pre-release of FF&S.

I didn't have the time to give the task of reviewing FF&S that it
required, so I never asked for a copy.

But, now that whoever DID get a copy has had a couple of weeks to
look at it, I thought I would ask for initial comments.

What's it like? Yea? Nay? So-So?

Can someone post a Table of Contents so we can see what's in it?

It's supposed to hit the stores in a couple of weeks (I guess), but I
thought it would be nice if one of the previewers can give a kind of
capsule overview of it.

Will

------------------------------

Bundle: 517
Archive-Message-Number: 6325
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 03:51:21 EST
From: Jo_Grant.LOTUSINT.LOTUS@CRD.lotus.com
Subject: Steve Jackson praises MegaTraveller

	Steve Jackson (of Steve Jackson games, not the pocket books)
was one of the guests at GaelCon recently (SJG do GURPS for those
who don't know). I was talking with him about various things. Of
relevance to this was if anyone had got the tender for doing a
GURPS sourcepack for C.J.Cherryh's Union/Alliance/Compact universe.
(The answer was no, but he and she are open to the idea) I mentioned
we had been kicking the idea aroud on the CherryhList but mainly
looking at things in terms of MegaTraveller rules. He thought this
was quite sensible as the two universes were very similar. He had
great praise for the MT rules. "The UTP is a wonderful idea: simple
and elegant. If I ever do a 4th Edition GURPS I will allow myself
to be *heavily* influenced by it." He was shocked to discover that
The New Era, which he hasn't had a chance to look at, dropped it.
He just sort of shook his head. (He affirmed that the Star Vikings
were Marc Miller's fault and he stole them from some book whose name
I can't remember)
				Jo Grant

------------------------------

Bundle: 517
Archive-Message-Number: 6326
From: adrian@cee.hw.ac.uk (Adrian Hurt)
Subject: Re: Computers and power usage
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 10:51:46 WET

goldman@orac.cray.com (Goldman of Chaos -- postmaster CRI-US) writes:
> I used to think that the power consumption and size of the computers
> was really out of line.  Then I started working for Cray Research.
>
> Really fast machines with about the same floor space requirements and
> power consumption as Classic Traveller computers.  We're not talking
> about Macintoshes and PC clones you plug into the wall after all.

Not yet. ;-)

Remember that the sort of computer which you can now put on your desk, or
even in your pocket, would have taken up lots of power and floor space a
couple of decades ago.

> - --
> Matthew Goldman  E-mail: goldman@orac.cray.com Work: (612) 683-3061
>
> 	"The DCI does not wake with a hangover and decide
> 	 to assassinate someone."          -Alec Chambers

"Not yet."     - Me. ;-)

- --
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cee
 UUCP: ..!uknet!cee.hw.ac.uk!adrian  |  ARPA:  adrian@cee.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Bundle: 517
Archive-Message-Number: 6327
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 06:57:03 EST
From: Jo_Grant.LOTUSINT.LOTUS@CRD.lotus.com
Subject: 3D Traveller, trade, and combat

	There have been several posts following up my coments on 3D
Traveller along the lines of "great idea, too complicated to run
or for the players" or "nifty but impossible to code"
	What's wrong with you people? Wake up! Did you not note that
my post was about what it *is* like to run 3D traveller, not what it
*would* be like.
	I've been running 3D traveller for 5 years now. It is *not* too
complicated for players. My players don't even have a technical
background. The main ones are a Biblical Scholar, a Printer, and a
Economics/Philosophy student.
	The main aid for all of this has been a 10x10x10 map done as 10
10x10 sheets and a simple cubic diagram of what relative cells you can
reach with a jump-2 ship. There have been one or two mis-calculated
jumps in those 5 years.
	As far as representation, come off it. All you need to know is
the basic rotational matrix. I spent two hours and volia! I had a 3D
displayed map added into SYSGEN that you can cycle and rotate. (For
those who *still* don't know, SYSGEN and its companion LIBRARY are
programs that generate almost everything you might want to know about
Traveller worlds down to World Builder's Handbook detail, available on
anonymouse FTP on either the TML server or on walton.maths.tcd.ie in
the pub/jaymin/trav directory).
	The Traveller system and background *does not* break down in 3D.
In fact, if you apply exchange rates like in TNE/TCS you need the extra
choice that 3D gives to ever hope of making a profit on cargo speculation.

	This brings me on to my second topic. *Does* anyone else use the
exchange rate system in TNE for cargo speculation? It kind of makes it
even slower to generate cargo available at a port. It used to really
slow down game play to sit and roll loads of dice to generate what cargos
were available at each port. Eventually I incorporated it into SYSGEN.
Then it was a simple matter to put in the exchange rates and a further
extension predicted what profit the would make at each planet within their
jump capability.
	Things change dramatically when you introduce the exchange rates.
In the normal course of things the most profitable trade routes are from
high-tech worlds to low-tech world. Going from TL15 to TL0 nets a minimum
150% profit (on top of the normal 25%). There are trade code effects but
these are fairly minimal. When you add in the exchange rates, though
you discover that the currency of most low tech worlds is fairly worthless.
Thus the whole things moderates and you can wave good-bye to all those
high-profit routes.
	The next add-on planned for LIBRARY is a course planner that
recursively chooses the best trade route (using the Knight's Tour
algorithym) from either point to point or just around the place. Once
that is done I'll post the best rountes for the Spinward Marches.

	Some people were complaining before about the lack of lethality
in TNE combat. Well, I spoke before of how I used the TNE-Virus idea as
a Virtual Reality game that my player's characters played. Well at the
moment I'm re-working some D&D modules as a Fantasy VR game that they
have on-line and might play. For that a combat system that isn't as
lethal as "real life" is perfect. To best enjoy the game you want the
players to live, yet destroy loads of enemies. So, solution: use the
non-lethal combat system for VR and save the leathal one for reality!

					Jo

------------------------------

Bundle: 517
Archive-Message-Number: 6328
From: mgood@MIT.EDU
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 14:32:37 -0500
Subject: FF&S

Hi!

You can read all of the mail that was sent back and forth from
the people that beta-tested the section of FF&S that wildstar had
by getting it by ftp from pub/traveller/gdw-beta at the ftp.engrg.uwo.ca
site (the same place that archives the mail from this list).

There were only two sections released to wildstar: slug-thrower design
and aircraft design.

I (agreeing with many of the other testers) thought that the rules
were good, but that they needed some sort of flow charts in the rules
to simplify the creation process.

We can't show you a table of contents because we only received two sections.

It was supposed to go to print last Wednesday, so it should be out soon.

I think that if the rest of the rules follow the pattern of these rules,
FF&S should be an excellent product.

Matt "Works at MIT with Distributed Computing, Not Crays, They're Downstairs"
Goodman

------------------------------

Bundle: 517
Archive-Message-Number: 6329
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1993 18:12:09 -0500
From: curtis@sbcs.sunysb.edu (Curtis Peer)
Subject: Balkanization codes

I got a look at the TNE Player Forms booklet today. Feeling no need
to shell out eight bucks for forms I either already have or would
home-grow my own versions of, I settled for flipping through it to
see if there was anything new.

The "TPPG" code (Travel class+Pop. mult+Planetoid belts+Gas giants)
legend lists a new travel code in addition to the usual Amber and
Red zones, namely "B" for Balkanized.


Apparently, this is the format to be used for the dual "Wilds Govenment"
code system.

John H Bogan

------------------------------

Bundle: 517
Archive-Message-Number: 6330
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 10:46:06 GMT
From: "Anthony K. Baggaley" <MCDAPAB@cms.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk>
Subject: Computers

  Re: Virus, Computer Power etc.
  (This computer ain't had the wheels fitted for the copy command yet...)

  I realised that larger computers need power closer to the Book 5 /MT
 requirements, but 250 MEGAWATTS??? (for about a Mod4: it's been a few years
 since I used High Guard). A friend once said if you work out the heat that
 produces it melts the whole thing in seconds (and I'm the one with the
 chemistry degree so I should work it out).
  I wasn't really serious about the power- the 'china syndrome' applied to most
 equipment in MT, just an effect of measuring everything in MW I suppose. I
 remember J.Fugate justifying it as 'use expands to fill availability', which
 doesn't help the crew of a Scout/Cooker.

  BTW- finally got my hands on Challenge 71, and overall it's quite good,
 worth it for the Design Notes anyway. Compared to the older issues it still
 looks like it's been sabotaged by Graphic Artists, but that's the modern way
 :)
                            Going Away
                                      Anthony K.
   (Driven insane by three years of listening to cooling fans on big work-
    stations)

------------------------------

Bundle: 517
Archive-Message-Number: 6331
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1993 11:16:25 -0500
From: curtis@sbcs.sunysb.edu (Curtis Peer)
Subject: TML FF&S Preview

For those who don't want to sort through the mailings of the
FF&S beta-test group, here's a little "debreifing" for the
general TML readers.
(my opinion only, and not authorized by anyone else to speak for them)

We only got a look at the small arms and aircraft design sequences.
Suggestions made ran from the minor (spell-checking), moderate
(changes to design formula, correcting a few errors in technical
explanations), to major (proposed reorganization of the sequences
to make them more user-friendly).

Of these, I think (but do not know) that most suggestions will be
used, except for the reorganizations, since they were proposed
very close to the deadline to expect a rewrite to be done.

Cheers,

John H Bogan

Semprini Trading, LIC
Com 668-42-42  Aramanx Highport Quadrant 3
Aramanx/Aramis/Spinward Marches

Serving the galaxy since 1102

------------------------------

Bundle: 517
Archive-Message-Number: 6332
From: Jo Jaquinta <jaymin@maths.tcd.ie>
Subject: LIBRARY DATA & SYSGEN
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 17:26:12 GMT

	The latest versions of LIBRARY DATA & SYSGEN are now on
walton.maths.tcd.ie in the pub/trav directory. SYSGEN now has simple
3D viewing (hit '3' when in Set Course under Trade) with arrow
key rotation.
	Let me know as usual about any bugs...
					Jo
******************************************************************************
* Jo Grant             * Spiders and sowbugs and beetles and crickets,       *
* 44 Bancroft Ave      * Slugs from the roses and ticks from the thickets    *
* Tallaght             * Grasshoppers, snails, and a quail's egg or two--    *
* Dublin 24            * All to be regurgitated for you.                     *
* IRELAND              * Lullaby, lullaby, swindles and schemes,             *
* +353 1 596796        * Flying's not near as much fun as it seems.          *
* jaymin@maths.tcd.ie  *       -- The blue-jay's song in The Last Unicorn    *
******************************************************************************

------------------------------

Bundle: 517
Archive-Message-Number: 6333
From: james vassilakos <jimv@ucrengr.ucr.edu>
Subject: 3d star maps (viewer available)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1993 12:13:27 -0800 (PST)

Jo_Grant.LOTUSINT.LOTUS@CRD.lotus.com writes:
> 	As far as representation, come off it. All you need to know is
> the basic rotational matrix. I spent two hours and volia! I had a 3D
> displayed map added into SYSGEN that you can cycle and rotate. (For
> those who *still* don't know, SYSGEN and its companion LIBRARY are
> programs that generate almost everything you might want to know about
> Traveller worlds down to World Builder's Handbook detail, available on
> anonymouse FTP on either the TML server or on walton.maths.tcd.ie in
> the pub/jaymin/trav directory).

Yeah, I saw this, and you did a very good job, by the way, but your
map solves the multiple-systems-along-the-same-Z-axis problem by only
displaying one plane at a time. That is, if two systems are next
door to each other, one above and the other below, you won't see them
on the same map. You have to flip through Z-coordinates. At least, that's
true on the text-map which I saw with the program. If there is some
rotational map which you've added since, let me know, and I'll take a look
at the new version.

On this topic, I recently received a 3d map display program called
_Outlander's Starchart 3d_ from Kerry. It rotates a bit slow on my
386DX25 w/ 1MB Trident SVGA, but the thing is awesome on my roomie's
486DX50 w/ the Viper Graphics. His machine is actually fast enough
so that you can get a good idea of what the 3d image looks like by
watching it spin around. On my machine, the redraw time is too slow
for this, however.

Outlander's Starchar 3d is available via anonymous ftp on
greyhawk.stanford.edu in the D_D/incoming/PROGRAMS directory.
The program is specially written for space-gamers, not AD&Ders.
The filename is 3d.zip. You need an IBM-PC or compatible to
run it. Note that the program is orphaned. The author has
dropped all support. If you don't have ftp access but still
want the program, contact me for a uuencoded copy via email.

For my own tastes, it's not exactly what I was looking for, but
it's the closest thing I've yet seen. I'm curious as to what other
folks with think of it. And I'm also curious to see what Jo has
done.
           _   /|       Jim Vassilakos
           \`o_O'       jimv@cs.ucr.edu
             ( )        jimv@wizards.com
              U         Riverside, California, USA
           Aachk!       (909) 864-3814 / 369-5259


------------------------------

Bundle: 517
Archive-Message-Number: 6334
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1993 12:51:03 +0000 (GMT)
From: Duncan Law-Green <dlg@jb.man.ac.uk>
Subject: Signal GK#7


Signal GK is a MegaTraveller fanzine set in the Dagudashaag
Sector (the sector immediately to spinward of Core). The setting
was originally developed by Duncan Law-Green as part of his work
as a HIWG member, but the fanzine operates independantly of
that organisation.

Each issue is between 40 and 48 pages long, A4 (11.5" x 8.5") page size,
centre stapled. Additional material is included with each issue, such as
library data on a particular subsector (in A5 loose format, ideal for
filing in a ring binder as a reference), deckplans (B4 size) and
`Specials' articles which were too large to fit in the magazine itself.

Each issue contains at least one `Contact' article, detailing a new
alien race or culture, and at least one `Port of Call' article
describing an individual system in detail. Other regular articles
include adventure scenarios of varying length, personalities, and
`INDISS', the Dagudashaag news service, as well as new weapons and
equipment, and discussion of variant rules systems.

The contact address for Signal GK is:-

	Jae Campbell
	The Sanctuary,
	45 Fairfield,
	Hebden Bridge,
	Halifax HX7 6JD
	UNITED KINGDOM

Individual issues of Signal GK cost about 1.50 (sterling) in the UK
and about 2.50 overseas (by surface). A three-issue (1 year) subscription
is 5.00 in the UK and 7.50 overseas.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------

Signal GK#7 has recently been published, and a contents list is
included below:-

Issue#7 (40 pages plus supplements)
- -----------------------------------

Editorials by Jae Campbell (distributor and retiring editor)
           and Leighton Piper (editor-elect)
Port of Call: Silk   by Jae Campbell (detailed world profile)
Fine Furs for Sale  by John Tatman (get your Aslan pelts here!)
Starport FreeFax by D. Upton & N. Walker (adventure hooks)
Encephalo Six One by J. Tatman (designer drug with a difference)
INDISS News by N. Walker & Jae Campbell (Dagudashaag news)

HubWorlds Special
- -----------------
	--- by the designers of the *original* TNE pocket empire!

Timeline 1110-1200 by Leighton Piper
The Merchant-Explorers  by Leighton Piper (HubWorlder motivations
				           +adventure hooks)
HubWorld Government  by Leighton Piper
Law & Order  by Leighton Piper

- -----------------

Repo Run  by Leighton Piper (adventure)
AKA Arralan Canaris  by J. Tatman (NPC)
Trade Enhancements  by Leighton Piper (rules discussion)
Silent Running  by J. Tatman (adventure)

Theta Borealis Special (part#1 of a new sector)
- -----------------------------------------------

Contact: Teluran Empire  by Stuart Machin & Leighton Piper
Telura Subsector  by Stuart Machin & Leighton Piper

Supplements
- -----------

Library Data: Sapphyre (Dagudashaag O)
 - part #7 of a sector encyclopedia by the Dagudashaag Development Team
Deck Plans (16" x 12") of two small craft   by J. Tatman

Also included is a centre spread of four pages of Traveller artwork by
amateur and professional artists.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

If you have any comments or questions about Signal GK, please feel free
to contact me by email.

Duncan
======

- -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
J.Duncan Law-Green                    | dlg@jb.man.ac.uk        (Internet)
University of Manchester              | JBVAD::DLG              (STARLINK)
Nuffield Radio Astronomy Laboratories |
Jodrell Bank                          | +44 (0)477-71617        (Home)
Macclesfield                          | +44 (0)477-71321 x206   (Work)
Cheshire SK11 9DL                     | +44 (0)477-71618        (FAX)
UNITED KINGDOM                        | 36149 JODREL G          (Telex)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -



------------------------------

Bundle: 517
Archive-Message-Number: 6335
From: Mike Basinger <dbasinge@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Traveller Players' Forms
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1993 22:33:54 -0500 (EST)

I just got The Players' Form. I think they look fine, but I thought it
would have been a unique idea to also sell them a computer format.

mike
- --
D. Michael Basinger: 	Not speaking for Indiana University
			dbasinge@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu
			dbasinge@arapahoe.ucs.indiana.edu (NeXT Mail)

------------------------------
Bundle: 517
Archive-Message-Number: 6336
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 11:11:55 -0500
From: mju@ftp.com (Mark Urbin)
Subject: player forms in computer format...

Nice idea, but what format?  I've yet to see a `single format' for such
things.  How much is GDW willing (or able) to spend on such computer
support?  Sticking a disk in that module would probably double the cost
of the release.  They would have to stick in at least two disks anyway.
One for MACs and another for MS-DOS based systems.

   Computer generated players sheets would be a nice feature in a Traveller
playing aid program.  Once FF&S hits the streets, you should see some
programs popping up for vehicle and starship generation.

------------------------------
Submissions: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca -or- uunet!engrg.uwo.ca!traveller
Administrator: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (James Perkins)

The TML is made possible by facilities provided by the University of
Western Ontario. All opinions and materials below are the responsibility
of the originator.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 518  6337 16-Nov-1993 Mike Basinger    players' form in computer format (one l
 518  6338 16-Nov-1993 David Hall, cal  Re: computerized forms, etc. << Seems t
 518  6339 16-Nov-1993 Duncan Law-Gree  Re: Antares & AI Ping << On Tue, 09 Nov
 518  6340 16-Nov-1993 Jo_Grant.LOTUSI  C.J. Cherryh Mailing list <<  I alluded
 518  6341 16-Nov-1993 Goldman of Chao  Re: computers and the china syndrome. <
 518  6342 16-Nov-1993 Goldman of Chao  Matter Converter Powerplants? << Last n
 518  6343 16-Nov-1993 "J.A.F.O."       Errata << Has anyone got a _complete_ (
 518  6344 17-Nov-1993 mgood@MIT.EDU    Cray Power Consumption << Hey, Matthew
 518  6345 17-Nov-1993 "Anthony K. Bag  Total Retcon <<  Matter Conversion Powe
 518  6346 18-Nov-1993 Steve Gibbons    Power consumption of large computers. <
 518  6347 18-Nov-1993 Mark Urbin       FF&S firearm designs << I've been readi
 518  6348 18-Nov-1993 Steven Gott      TNE and the Virus << I know this is pre
 518  6349 18-Nov-1993 Eric Edward Moo  Re: Power consumption of large computer
 518  6350 19-Nov-1993 mgood@MIT.EDU    Cray Power << Re:Steve@Sunquest.COM
 518  6351 19-Nov-1993 Goldman of Chao  TML nightly: Msgs 6344-6345 V64#10 (fwd
 518  6352 19-Nov-1993 Peter H. Brento  15mm rifles << mju@ftp.com (Mark Urbin)
 518  6353 20-Nov-1993 Derek Wildstar   Re: C.J. Cherryh << Jo_Grant.LOTUSINT.L
 518  6354 19-Nov-1993 Mark F. Cook     Re: 15mm rifles << In Message-Number: 6
 518  6355 20-Nov-1993 mgood@MIT.EDU    Cray Power Consumption << 400,000 Kw/mo
 518  6356 20-Nov-1993 Dane Johnson     Re: Basement Seutups << On Sat, 20 Nov
 518  6357 20-Nov-1993 RJR96326@vax1.u  Weapon Calibres << Because somebody ask

------------------------------

Bundle: 518
Archive-Message-Number: 6337
From: Mike Basinger <dbasinge@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: players' form in computer format (one last time)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1993 00:58:20 -0500 (EST)

If GDW wanted to play it cheap. You should be able to make the forms
in a pict or tiff format, which can (I think) be read by WordPerfect
of Microsoft Word (plus many other graphics programs). Also, you can
made it just for the IBM, since Apple File Exchange should be able to
convert them to a Mac format.

But, I could see why GDW would want to handle it.

mike

- --
D. Michael Basinger: 	Not speaking for Indiana University
			dbasinge@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu
			dbasinge@arapahoe.ucs.indiana.edu (NeXT Mail)

------------------------------

Bundle: 518
Archive-Message-Number: 6338
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1993 01:52:22 -0600
From: dghall@students.wisc.edu (David Hall, calling from "Books on Brooks")
Subject: Re: computerized forms, etc.

Seems to me there is a simple reason why gaming companies don't make
computer tools -- they're just too bloody easy to copy.  Why spend a modest
hunk of change on programming, when all that'll happen is one person wil
buy it and "post" it to some pirate BBS, or heaven forbid someplace on the
'Net.  Even without spreading over wires, I'm sure the "well, I'll just
loan this to a friend" factor is a major disincentive developers, since it
eats up most of whatever few prospective sales you might have had in the
first place. (I know this was in the minds of Digest Group back when they
were working on their disk set; did that ever come to market, or did they
shift focus before it came out?)


Of course, when you throw in the problem of multiple disk formats and
different platforms, for goshsakes, there's almost no reason at all for
somebody with even a fair amount of resources (i.e. TSR) would spend them
making software they can't make money on anyway.  If you can make them for
proprietary platforms, like Nintendo, then you get deals like SSI's games
for TSR, but otherwise even TSR, who can afford to do a bang-up job on
software if they like, won't touch the sinkhole of software tools...

>   Computer generated players sheets would be a nice feature in a Traveller
>playing aid program.  Once FF&S hits the streets, you should see some
>programs popping up for vehicle and starship generation.

Which leads us to the solution we've all developed to deal with the above
dilemma: home-grown tools written by those with the dedication and skill
and most importantly, without the need for payment.   I haven't had a look
at the archives recently (i.e. in years), but last I saw nobody was even
trying to present their work as shareware or "please pay me if you like
it"-ware, though I know some of the stuff I've seen was definitely of
commercial or better quality.  (Never mind the screen stuff, if someone
actually codes all the starship rules or worse yet, planetary system rules,
smooth enough to use them a lot, then that's a bang up job in my book!)

For those selfless souls who have spent so much time out of their love for
the game(s), I can only say bravo!  and thank you, and we can only hope
they and others will be willing to slough thru it all again for new
versions of our favorite games...


                                DGH
                                me, I'd be tempted to try such things myself
                                but others have done such good jobs before me,
                                it seems counterproductive to try and one-up
                                them...

************    &&&&&&&&    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^     &&&&&&&&&&&&&     ************
David Hall                                         dghall@students.wisc.edu
Univ. of Wisconsin Madison      Political Science/Philosophy/You Name It
logged in for far too                           courtesy of UW -Madison's
many hours of the day                           WiscWorld Dialin Service


------------------------------

Bundle: 518
Archive-Message-Number: 6339
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1993 10:02:36 +0000 (GMT)
From: Duncan Law-Green <dlg@jb.man.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Antares & AI Ping

On Tue, 09 Nov 93, "Anthony K. Baggaley" <MCDAPAB@cms.manchester-computing-
centre.ac.uk> wrote:-

> Some work on Antares was done by HIWG. I think the League (or some other
> part was described by Duncan Law-Green. He's on this list, maybe he'll
> respond now I've mentioned his name, maybe he'll kill me. The stuff in
> Challenge is partly based on the background he wrote, and he's a bit
> annoyed that area he descibed has been wracked by civil war and turned
> into bad-guys. (but at least he gets credited occasionly). So look to
> HIWG for more....

Gee, thanks Anthony! I was quite happy being a lurker until you went and
dragged me into the limelight :) ...

FYI, the work I did on Antares (must have been three or four years ago
now <sigh>) was based around the Antares Ring Confederation, a high-tech
Solomani/Vargr autonomous enclave in Sarar subsector (Antares F). OK, so
these guys were political enemies of the League of Antares, the Julians,
and just about anyone else you care to mention, but that was no reason to
turn them into the archetypical bad guys portrayed in James Malisewski's
Challenge articles <snff, snff>...:)

If you're interested in seeing any of the ARC articles, the best person
to contact is Clayton Bush of HIWG (as my copies of the Antares archives
are about 100 miles away at the moment). Clay's address is:-

  	Clayton R. Bush
	PO Box 119
	Limon
	CO 80828
	USA

Obligatory AI(tm) Question: Where is it? When am I going to get something
in return for the $15 debit on my Visa card? Does anybody know...?

Duncan

- -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
J.Duncan Law-Green                    | dlg@jb.man.ac.uk        (Internet)
University of Manchester              | JBVAD::DLG              (STARLINK)
Nuffield Radio Astronomy Laboratories |
Jodrell Bank                          | +44 (0)477-71617        (Home)
Macclesfield                          | +44 (0)477-71321 x206   (Work)
Cheshire SK11 9DL                     | +44 (0)477-71618        (FAX)
UNITED KINGDOM                        | 36149 JODREL G          (Telex)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

------------------------------

Bundle: 518
Archive-Message-Number: 6340
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 93 05:24:26 EST
From: Jo_Grant.LOTUSINT.LOTUS@CRD.lotus.com
Subject: C.J. Cherryh Mailing list

	I alluded to a C.J.Cherryh mailing list in a previous message.
I've had a few inquiries (one of which I lost) so I'll post a general
message.
	The Cherryh List is maintained through "jaymin@maths.tcd.ie".
Send mail there asking to be subscribed. It is distributed more or
less daily and maintains an archive on walton.maths.tcd.ie in the
pub/jaymin/cherryh directory.
	There are several items that might be of interest to traveller
players there. There are several GIF pictures from the covers of
various novels and games. There is a version of rules for the
StarChase game and a Windows Cherryh Ship Design program (quite strongly
based on the MegaTraveller ship design rules :-). There are a few
star maps and lists of ship designations.
	For those who aren't familiar with Cherryh, her SF universe
(known as Union/Alliance/Compact) is quite similar to traveller. The
ships take a long time to jump between stars and information travels
at the same speed. There are even furry cats with gender distinctions
very similar to Aslan. What hit me hardest when first reading her is
"This *feels* like Traveller". I really don't know if Cherryh had an
influence on early Traveller or early Traveller had an influence on
Cherryh (or if it is all some vast coincidence).
	On the list some topics of interest are the mechanics of her ships,
how one might run a game in her setting, and general ship design
and fleet use strategy.
	[Just to clear up some confusion, my mailing address is
technically "jaymin@maths.tcd.ie". I am now working for Lotus, Ireland
and have e-mail at work: "jo_grant.lotusint.lotus@crd.lotus.com". At
the moment sending to jaymin reflects to jo_grant (and thus I get
it twice). If you have a quick query and are fond of typing long
addresses go ahead and mail jo_grant. Otherwise send most things
to jaymin. And yes, both of us are really Jo Jaquinta. I've taken
Grant as a married name which is much easier to deal with in Ireland!]
				Jo Grant

------------------------------

Bundle: 518
Archive-Message-Number: 6341
Subject: Re: computers and the china syndrome.
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 93 8:47:50 GMT+4622364:40
From: goldman@orac.cray.com (Goldman of Chaos -- postmaster CRI-US)
Reply-To: goldman@orac.cray.com

> Bundle: 517
> Archive-Message-Number: 6330
> Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 10:46:06 GMT
> From: "Anthony K. Baggaley" <MCDAPAB@cms.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk>
> Subject: Computers
>
>   Re: Virus, Computer Power etc.
>   (This computer ain't had the wheels fitted for the copy command yet...)
>
>   I realised that larger computers need power closer to the Book 5 /MT
>  requirements, but 250 MEGAWATTS??? (for about a Mod4: it's been a few years
>  since I used High Guard). A friend once said if you work out the heat that
>  produces it melts the whole thing in seconds (and I'm the one with the
>  chemistry degree so I should work it out).

That's what will happen to a large Cray Mainframe if you take away the
cooling unit.  Check it out, many of CRI's early patents are for
spiffy *cooling* technology.

Matt

- --
Matthew Goldman  E-mail: goldman@orac.cray.com Work: (612) 683-3061

	"The DCI does not wake with a hangover and decide to
	 assassinate someone.  Last Tuesday doesn't count."

------------------------------

Bundle: 518
Archive-Message-Number: 6342
Subject: Matter Converter Powerplants?
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 93 15:47:12 GMT+4622364:40
From: goldman@orac.cray.com (Goldman of Chaos -- postmaster CRI-US)
Reply-To: goldman@orac.cray.com

Last night I reread through JoTAS #1 to JoTAS #24.  One (of many)
questions came to mind.  What ever happened to the matter converter
powerplant for vehicles?  It was a plot element in the first Amber
Zone; however, that seems to be the end of them.  sigh.  Now I want to
run all of the Amber Zones in order.  Tonight I think I'll reread all
of the adventures.

Matt

- --
Matthew Goldman  E-mail: goldman@orac.cray.com Work: (612) 683-3061

	My primary use of the Logrus is to collect
	out of print Traveller books.  -- Me

------------------------------

Bundle: 518
Archive-Message-Number: 6343
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 93 20:11 GMT
From: "J.A.F.O." <BSP054@BANGOR.AC.UK>
Subject: Errata

Has anyone got a _complete_ (as in upto date) set of TNE errata?
I had the stuff off here but lost it in a file clearout.
Ta,



------------------------------

Bundle: 518
Archive-Message-Number: 6344
From: mgood@MIT.EDU
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 09:30:29 -0500
Subject: Cray Power Consumption

Hey, Matthew Goldman, would you be giving away any trade secrets
if you told us how much power a top o the line Cray uses?  In MW per
day?

------------------------------

Bundle: 518
Archive-Message-Number: 6345
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 15:00:11 GMT
From: "Anthony K. Baggaley" <MCDAPAB@cms.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk>
Subject: Total Retcon

 Matter Conversion Power Plants? They were obviously suppresed by the
Hydrogen Skimming Companies to protect their market.....

                       Anthony K

  (Who is reminded that GDW now claim that material in JTAS isn't official,
   only published Traveller Books. Like Target Drones of the Shattered
   Imperium. Hohohohohohohoh)

------------------------------

Bundle: 518
Archive-Message-Number: 6337
From: Mike Basinger <dbasinge@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: players' form in computer format (one last time)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1993 00:58:20 -0500 (EST)

If GDW wanted to play it cheap. You should be able to make the forms
in a pict or tiff format, which can (I think) be read by WordPerfect
of Microsoft Word (plus many other graphics programs). Also, you can
made it just for the IBM, since Apple File Exchange should be able to
convert them to a Mac format.

But, I could see why GDW would want to handle it.

mike

- --
D. Michael Basinger: 	Not speaking for Indiana University
			dbasinge@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu
			dbasinge@arapahoe.ucs.indiana.edu (NeXT Mail)

------------------------------

Bundle: 518
Archive-Message-Number: 6338
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1993 01:52:22 -0600
From: dghall@students.wisc.edu (David Hall, calling from "Books on Brooks")
Subject: Re: computerized forms, etc.

Seems to me there is a simple reason why gaming companies don't make
computer tools -- they're just too bloody easy to copy.  Why spend a modest
hunk of change on programming, when all that'll happen is one person wil
buy it and "post" it to some pirate BBS, or heaven forbid someplace on the
'Net.  Even without spreading over wires, I'm sure the "well, I'll just
loan this to a friend" factor is a major disincentive developers, since it
eats up most of whatever few prospective sales you might have had in the
first place. (I know this was in the minds of Digest Group back when they
were working on their disk set; did that ever come to market, or did they
shift focus before it came out?)


Of course, when you throw in the problem of multiple disk formats and
different platforms, for goshsakes, there's almost no reason at all for
somebody with even a fair amount of resources (i.e. TSR) would spend them
making software they can't make money on anyway.  If you can make them for
proprietary platforms, like Nintendo, then you get deals like SSI's games
for TSR, but otherwise even TSR, who can afford to do a bang-up job on
software if they like, won't touch the sinkhole of software tools...

>   Computer generated players sheets would be a nice feature in a Traveller
>playing aid program.  Once FF&S hits the streets, you should see some
>programs popping up for vehicle and starship generation.

Which leads us to the solution we've all developed to deal with the above
dilemma: home-grown tools written by those with the dedication and skill
and most importantly, without the need for payment.   I haven't had a look
at the archives recently (i.e. in years), but last I saw nobody was even
trying to present their work as shareware or "please pay me if you like
it"-ware, though I know some of the stuff I've seen was definitely of
commercial or better quality.  (Never mind the screen stuff, if someone
actually codes all the starship rules or worse yet, planetary system rules,
smooth enough to use them a lot, then that's a bang up job in my book!)

For those selfless souls who have spent so much time out of their love for
the game(s), I can only say bravo!  and thank you, and we can only hope
they and others will be willing to slough thru it all again for new
versions of our favorite games...


                                DGH
                                me, I'd be tempted to try such things myself
                                but others have done such good jobs before me,
                                it seems counterproductive to try and one-up
                                them...

************    &&&&&&&&    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^     &&&&&&&&&&&&&     ************
David Hall                                         dghall@students.wisc.edu
Univ. of Wisconsin Madison      Political Science/Philosophy/You Name It
logged in for far too                           courtesy of UW -Madison's
many hours of the day                           WiscWorld Dialin Service


------------------------------

Bundle: 518
Archive-Message-Number: 6339
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1993 10:02:36 +0000 (GMT)
From: Duncan Law-Green <dlg@jb.man.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Antares & AI Ping

On Tue, 09 Nov 93, "Anthony K. Baggaley" <MCDAPAB@cms.manchester-computing-
centre.ac.uk> wrote:-

> Some work on Antares was done by HIWG. I think the League (or some other
> part was described by Duncan Law-Green. He's on this list, maybe he'll
> respond now I've mentioned his name, maybe he'll kill me. The stuff in
> Challenge is partly based on the background he wrote, and he's a bit
> annoyed that area he descibed has been wracked by civil war and turned
> into bad-guys. (but at least he gets credited occasionly). So look to
> HIWG for more....

Gee, thanks Anthony! I was quite happy being a lurker until you went and
dragged me into the limelight :) ...

FYI, the work I did on Antares (must have been three or four years ago
now <sigh>) was based around the Antares Ring Confederation, a high-tech
Solomani/Vargr autonomous enclave in Sarar subsector (Antares F). OK, so
these guys were political enemies of the League of Antares, the Julians,
and just about anyone else you care to mention, but that was no reason to
turn them into the archetypical bad guys portrayed in James Malisewski's
Challenge articles <snff, snff>...:)

If you're interested in seeing any of the ARC articles, the best person
to contact is Clayton Bush of HIWG (as my copies of the Antares archives
are about 100 miles away at the moment). Clay's address is:-

  	Clayton R. Bush
	PO Box 119
	Limon
	CO 80828
	USA

Obligatory AI(tm) Question: Where is it? When am I going to get something
in return for the $15 debit on my Visa card? Does anybody know...?

Duncan

- -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
J.Duncan Law-Green                    | dlg@jb.man.ac.uk        (Internet)
University of Manchester              | JBVAD::DLG              (STARLINK)
Nuffield Radio Astronomy Laboratories |
Jodrell Bank                          | +44 (0)477-71617        (Home)
Macclesfield                          | +44 (0)477-71321 x206   (Work)
Cheshire SK11 9DL                     | +44 (0)477-71618        (FAX)
UNITED KINGDOM                        | 36149 JODREL G          (Telex)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

------------------------------

Bundle: 518
Archive-Message-Number: 6340
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 93 05:24:26 EST
From: Jo_Grant.LOTUSINT.LOTUS@CRD.lotus.com
Subject: C.J. Cherryh Mailing list

	I alluded to a C.J.Cherryh mailing list in a previous message.
I've had a few inquiries (one of which I lost) so I'll post a general
message.
	The Cherryh List is maintained through "jaymin@maths.tcd.ie".
Send mail there asking to be subscribed. It is distributed more or
less daily and maintains an archive on walton.maths.tcd.ie in the
pub/jaymin/cherryh directory.
	There are several items that might be of interest to traveller
players there. There are several GIF pictures from the covers of
various novels and games. There is a version of rules for the
StarChase game and a Windows Cherryh Ship Design program (quite strongly
based on the MegaTraveller ship design rules :-). There are a few
star maps and lists of ship designations.
	For those who aren't familiar with Cherryh, her SF universe
(known as Union/Alliance/Compact) is quite similar to traveller. The
ships take a long time to jump between stars and information travels
at the same speed. There are even furry cats with gender distinctions
very similar to Aslan. What hit me hardest when first reading her is
"This *feels* like Traveller". I really don't know if Cherryh had an
influence on early Traveller or early Traveller had an influence on
Cherryh (or if it is all some vast coincidence).
	On the list some topics of interest are the mechanics of her ships,
how one might run a game in her setting, and general ship design
and fleet use strategy.
	[Just to clear up some confusion, my mailing address is
technically "jaymin@maths.tcd.ie". I am now working for Lotus, Ireland
and have e-mail at work: "jo_grant.lotusint.lotus@crd.lotus.com". At
the moment sending to jaymin reflects to jo_grant (and thus I get
it twice). If you have a quick query and are fond of typing long
addresses go ahead and mail jo_grant. Otherwise send most things
to jaymin. And yes, both of us are really Jo Jaquinta. I've taken
Grant as a married name which is much easier to deal with in Ireland!]
				Jo Grant

------------------------------

Bundle: 518
Archive-Message-Number: 6341
Subject: Re: computers and the china syndrome.
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 93 8:47:50 GMT+4622364:40
From: goldman@orac.cray.com (Goldman of Chaos -- postmaster CRI-US)
Reply-To: goldman@orac.cray.com

> Bundle: 517
> Archive-Message-Number: 6330
> Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 10:46:06 GMT
> From: "Anthony K. Baggaley" <MCDAPAB@cms.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk>
> Subject: Computers
>
>   Re: Virus, Computer Power etc.
>   (This computer ain't had the wheels fitted for the copy command yet...)
>
>   I realised that larger computers need power closer to the Book 5 /MT
>  requirements, but 250 MEGAWATTS??? (for about a Mod4: it's been a few years
>  since I used High Guard). A friend once said if you work out the heat that
>  produces it melts the whole thing in seconds (and I'm the one with the
>  chemistry degree so I should work it out).

That's what will happen to a large Cray Mainframe if you take away the
cooling unit.  Check it out, many of CRI's early patents are for
spiffy *cooling* technology.

Matt

- --
Matthew Goldman  E-mail: goldman@orac.cray.com Work: (612) 683-3061

	"The DCI does not wake with a hangover and decide to
	 assassinate someone.  Last Tuesday doesn't count."

------------------------------

Bundle: 518
Archive-Message-Number: 6342
Subject: Matter Converter Powerplants?
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 93 15:47:12 GMT+4622364:40
From: goldman@orac.cray.com (Goldman of Chaos -- postmaster CRI-US)
Reply-To: goldman@orac.cray.com

Last night I reread through JoTAS #1 to JoTAS #24.  One (of many)
questions came to mind.  What ever happened to the matter converter
powerplant for vehicles?  It was a plot element in the first Amber
Zone; however, that seems to be the end of them.  sigh.  Now I want to
run all of the Amber Zones in order.  Tonight I think I'll reread all
of the adventures.

Matt

- --
Matthew Goldman  E-mail: goldman@orac.cray.com Work: (612) 683-3061

	My primary use of the Logrus is to collect
	out of print Traveller books.  -- Me

------------------------------

Bundle: 518
Archive-Message-Number: 6343
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 93 20:11 GMT
From: "J.A.F.O." <BSP054@BANGOR.AC.UK>
Subject: Errata

Has anyone got a _complete_ (as in upto date) set of TNE errata?
I had the stuff off here but lost it in a file clearout.
Ta,

------------------------------

Bundle: 518
Archive-Message-Number: 6344
From: mgood@MIT.EDU
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 09:30:29 -0500
Subject: Cray Power Consumption

Hey, Matthew Goldman, would you be giving away any trade secrets
if you told us how much power a top o the line Cray uses?  In MW per
day?

------------------------------

Bundle: 518
Archive-Message-Number: 6345
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 15:00:11 GMT
From: "Anthony K. Baggaley" <MCDAPAB@cms.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk>
Subject: Total Retcon

 Matter Conversion Power Plants? They were obviously suppresed by the
Hydrogen Skimming Companies to protect their market.....

                       Anthony K

  (Who is reminded that GDW now claim that material in JTAS isn't official,
   only published Traveller Books. Like Target Drones of the Shattered
   Imperium. Hohohohohohohoh)

------------------------------
Bundle: 518
Archive-Message-Number: 6346
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 10:05:29 MST
From: Steve Gibbons <steve@nereid.sunquest.com>
Reply-To: steve@sunquest.com
Subject: Power consumption of large computers.

This is a back-of-the-envelope calculation, but:

The latest MP Crays will have up to 1024 (2048?) DECchip 21064s (AKA Alpha) in
them.  Each chip draws about 30 watts, as I remember.  Serious computational
abilities, and serious energy consumption...  :)  Big bucks, too (about $30M, I
think, for the fully loaded model.)

Don't forget to include ancilary power consumption (dedicated air-conditioners,
terminals, storage-media, etc.)  Even with all of that factored in, The numbers
from GDW seem kinda high to me.  (by an order of magnitude or two.)

- --
Steve@Sunquest.COM

------------------------------

Bundle: 518
Archive-Message-Number: 6347
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 16:27:52 -0500
From: mju@ftp.com (Mark Urbin)
Subject: FF&S firearm designs


I've been reading the archives of the Beta test group.  I noticed someone
was designing a *large* rifle.  In the 15mm range.  From what I remember,
*large* weapons were coming out much bigger than their real-life counter-
parts.  Is that still true or did GDW come up with a fix?

  If the 15mm rifle came out fairly close to what the designer was looking
for, I'd like to hear about it.  I just finished re-reading Pournelle's
Falkenberg's Legion books and noticed the 15mm sniper rifle used by the
Royal Spartan Army and their Helot foes.  The 15mm rounds ignored the
`improved Kevlar' used and was effective against light armored vehicles.
Does the FF&S designs live up to this?


- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Urbin -- ftp Software, Inc.  North Andover, MA  These opinions are mine.
GRIDLOCK (n), term denoting Congressional resistance to the President's
agenda.  This term may be used ONLY when Clinton's agenda is opposed by
Congressional Republicans.  Not to be confused with "healthy disagreement",
an otherwise identical situation that exists when Clinton is opposed by
Congressional Democrats (i.e., Majority Whip David Bonior,D-MI). See NAFTA,
Health Care Reform, National Performance Review, etc.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Bundle: 518
Archive-Message-Number: 6348
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 18:51:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Steven Gott <sgott@u.washington.edu>
Subject: TNE and the Virus

I know this is pretty much a dead horse but I couldn't help but flog it a
little bit.  I was reading THE TWO FACES OF TOMORROW by James P. Hogan.
This would be a good reference, IMHO for those of you looking for Vampire
Habitats.

The most important aspect in the book is that electronic life doesn't
have to ANY values that we can relate with.  What we might consider as
hate the elcetronic life form might just see as a need for more surface
area for power collection...

The most chilling part of electronic life forms would be their speed of
action relative to us oganics.  Consider, computer clock speeds keep
increasing.  The upper limit of this is probably the speed of light with
exotic 'light switches' functioning as circuits.  By TL 15 Mr. Computer
while not quite self aware is fast enough to run very convincing
simulations of real intelligence.  I assume that the virus must be even
faster than Mr. Computer.  A poor analogy of how fast the Virus must be
is that the Virus is as fast to organics as we are to plants....

Consequences:

	1) If we are "plants" than we must grow thorns...

	2) Maybe Suiciders suicide because they get bored

	3) Maybe Vampires suicide because they feel guilty for all of the
	   dammage and suffering

	4) Maybe the Vampires on the edge of the black curtain are rebuilding
	   the core of the Imperium as a form of 'community service'

Just a few thoughts,

Steven Gott
Seattle Washington

------------------------------

Bundle: 518
Archive-Message-Number: 6349
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 23:13:41 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Edward Moore <deathmaster+@CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Power consumption of large computers.

Steve Gibbons <steve@nereid.sunquest.com> writes:
> The latest MP Crays will have up to 1024 (2048?) DECchip 21064s (AKA Alpha) in
> them.  Each chip draws about 30 watts, as I remember.  Serious computational
> abilities, and serious energy consumption...  :)  Big bucks, too (about $30M, I
> think, for the fully loaded model.)

Apparantly the Cray Y-MP has a far higher power consumption than the
new many-alpha cray (T3d?)....

	-Love, Kisses, and a Neutron Bomb
		-Eric the Finn

------------------------------

Bundle: 518
Archive-Message-Number: 6350
From: mgood@MIT.EDU
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 93 07:27:55 -0500
Subject: Cray Power

Re:Steve@Sunquest.COM

Hmmmm...  All I know about Cray power consumption is that it uses alot,
but I don't have a scale for that.  Considering the one we have takes up
about 1 "Traveller" Ton of Displacement, it seems like a larger one
would suck up alot of juice.  It's a scale thing for me.  What can you
do with a megawatt of electricity?  Here at MIT I see "Blah Megawatt
Lasers" signs all over the place, but my educational areas were Biology,
Humanities, and Business.

But then, I believed in thruster plates.  Why not?

Matt ;-)

PS-- I'd still like to hear from Matt Goldman about power consumption in
non-multiple processor Crays... or both, I'm not picky.

------------------------------

Bundle: 518
Archive-Message-Number: 6351
Subject: TML nightly: Msgs 6344-6345 V64#10 (fwd)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 93 8:49:10 GMT+4474076:08
From: goldman@orac.cray.com (Goldman of Chaos -- postmaster CRI-US)
Reply-To: goldman@orac.cray.com

mgood@MIT.EDU said the following:
> Bundle: 518
> Archive-Message-Number: 6344
> From: mgood@MIT.EDU
> Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 09:30:29 -0500
> Subject: Cray Power Consumption
>
> Hey, Matthew Goldman, would you be giving away any trade secrets
> if you told us how much power a top o the line Cray uses?  In MW per
> day?

Around 400,000 Kw per month?  That's based upon just the CPU, not
counting the disk drives and cooling system.  People looked at my
really strangly when I asked.

Matt

- --
Matthew Goldman  E-mail: goldman@orac.cray.com Work: (612) 683-3061

	"The DCI does not wake with a hangover and decide
	 to assassinate someone."          -Alec Chambers

------------------------------

Bundle: 518
Archive-Message-Number: 6352
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 93 11:14:42 CST
From: Peter H. Brenton <pete@biochem.uchicago.edu>
Subject: 15mm rifles

mju@ftp.com (Mark Urbin) says;

>  I noticed someone
>was designing a *large* rifle.  In the 15mm range.

for those of us not particularly familiar with real-life weapon
diameters (or at least not in millimeters) could you put this into
context please?

I *thought* that a 30-06 rifle had a round 6/10ths of an inch in
diameter (this doesn't sound right to me).  That would make it
(using my thumbnail approximation of 25 mm to an inch) about
15mm diameter.  This can't be right if your talking about 15mm
being a *large* rifle, I assume your talking about an elephant rifle,
not a deer rifle.  Could someone please correct me?

It would also be helpful to me if someone could post a list of standard 'real'
weapon calibers and show their diameter in mm (ie. .357 Magnum=XXmm pistol).

btw, if anyone is looking for a source of less than usual weapons for a
traveller campaign, I've always used the weapons from Traveller 2300.  There
are several combined weapons (ie gauss rifle/grenade launcher), they can be
easily translated in game terms, and they have great pictures for every
weapon.  Keep in mind though that they are at tech level 11 or 12.

Of course, I was always a fan of the very thin very high velocity round
which should have a better penetration than any large (non-explosive) round
in any case.  It will also, of course, do less damage (which is why you fire
a three round burst, or full auto)

I also wonder about how ff&s handles recoil for these *large* rifles.

Pete

"The opinions expressed certainly have nothing whatever to do with
the University of Chicago or the Department of Biochemistry (I just
work there and use their toys)."

Peter Brenton					   (312) 702-0030
Biochemistry & Molecular Biology	pete@biochem.uchicago.edu
The University of Chicago	

------------------------------

Bundle: 518
Archive-Message-Number: 6353
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 93 01:27:09 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@quark.qrc.com>
Subject: Re: C.J. Cherryh

Jo_Grant.LOTUSINT.LOTUS@CRD.lotus.com writes:
> 	For those who aren't familiar with Cherryh, her SF universe
> (known as Union/Alliance/Compact) is quite similar to traveller. The
> ships take a long time to jump between stars and information travels
> at the same speed. There are even furry cats with gender distinctions
> very similar to Aslan. What hit me hardest when first reading her is
> "This *feels* like Traveller". I really don't know if Cherryh had an
> influence on early Traveller or early Traveller had an influence on
> Cherryh (or if it is all some vast coincidence).

It's really hard to be sure.  The publication dates for Pride of Chanur
*STRADDLE* the publication date The Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
#7, which contains the first description of the Aslan.  That is, the
portions of the book that were published serially came out before
JTAS#7, while the book was published after.

I'd conclude that any similarities (and there are quite a few) between
the Hani and that early Aslan article are probably coincidental ...

However, I wouldn't doubt that since then Cherryh's books, as popular
and well-read as they are, haven't had some effect on the later
development of the Aslan (it would be hard not to).

As far as the overall "feel" of the game and books go, the similarity
is probably deliberate, but not in the way that you might think.  Cherryh
writes an awfully good SF tale, and in many ways it reminds me of the
masters of "Space Opera" updated to the present; in this respect Cherryh is
(IMHO) successor to the likes of "Doc" Smith, Heinlien, Clarke, Asimov, and
company.  Since Traveller was designed to create the same sort of
"atmosphere" present in those SF classics, it's no suprise that they
came out "feeling" the same.

As a one-sentance description, I sometimes sum up the Aslan for new players
as "Imagine a race of Hani females and Kzin males ..."  This isn't really
very fair to the Aslan, but it's about as good as you can do in one
sentance.

wildstar@quark.qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In the Far Future

------------------------------

Bundle: 518
Archive-Message-Number: 6354
From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvxmk0.cv.hp.com>
Subject: Re: 15mm rifles
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 93 23:18:26 PST

In Message-Number: 6352 Peter H. Brenton <pete@biochem.uchicago.edu> writes:

> mju@ftp.com (Mark Urbin) says;
>
> >  I noticed someone
> >was designing a *large* rifle.  In the 15mm range.
>
> for those of us not particularly familiar with real-life weapon
> diameters (or at least not in millimeters) could you put this into
> context please?

OK, the largest caliber sniper rifles currently in use today (the RAI
Model 500 and the Barrett Light .50) fire the .50 Browning round (the
same shell used in a Browning .50 caliber heavy machinegun of WWII
fame).  That's a 1/2 inch diameter slug, which works out to 12.7mm.

The largest caliber American centerfire cartridge ever produced (and
now obsolete) is (was) the 70-150 Winchester.  Developed as a novelty
in 1888, it was based on a brass 12-gauge shotgun shell, which was
shortened and necked slightly.  A specially manufactured Winchester
1887 shotgun (with a rifled barreled) was created to fire it.  Neither
the weapon or the shell were ever produced in commercial quantities.
It would have been considered a 17.9mm rifle.  Ouch.

The largest sporting round currently in production is a proprietary
(wildcat) cartridge called the 700 Nitro Express.  It includes a slug
that is .7 inches in diameter (making it a 17.78mm weapon) and, as
the name implies, being shot with it is like being hit by a train.
There's not much recognizeable left afterwards.  With a muzzle velocity
of 2000 fps and a muzzle energy of 8900 fpe, it is the most powerful
sporting cartridge in the world.

> I *thought* that a 30-06 rifle had a round 6/10ths of an inch in
> diameter (this doesn't sound right to me).

You're right, it *isn't* right. :^)  The 30-06 U.S. Springfield (as
the round is formally described) uses a slug .308 inches in diameter,
which would make it a 7.8mm rifle in MT terms.

>                                             That would make it
> (using my thumbnail approximation of 25 mm to an inch) about
> 15mm diameter.  This can't be right if your talking about 15mm
> being a *large* rifle, I assume your talking about an elephant
> rifle, not a deer rifle.  Could someone please correct me?

Done.  See above. :^)

> It would also be helpful to me if someone could post a list of
> standard 'real' weapon calibers and show their diameter in mm
> (ie. .357 Magnum=XXmm pistol).

Sure.  Here are some of the more common handgun calibers (for weapons
not already described in millimeters):
        .22*      = 0.223mm (*=short, long & long-rifle)
        .25 ACP   = 6.38mm
        .32 ACP   = 7.85mm
        .380 ACP  = 9.04mm
        .38 Spec. = 9.07mm
        .357 Mag. = 9.07mm
        .40 S&W   = 10.16mm
        .41 Mag.  = 10.41mm
        .44 Mag.  = 10.9mm
        .45 ACP   = 11.48mm
 ...and for centerfire rifle calibers:
        .243 Winchester      = 6.17mm
        .270 Winchester      = 7.04mm
        .30-30 Winchester    = 7.62mm
        .308 Winchester      = 7.62mm
        .458 Winchester Mag. = 11.63mm
        .460 Weatherby Mag.  = 11.63mm
        12-gauge shotgun     = 18.5mm (bore diameter, open choke)

Bare in mind that while one caliber may be equal to or larger than another,
it is by no means safe to assume that size equals power.  The .38 Special
and .357 Magnum handgun rounds use slug with identical diameters, but
the .357 is much more powerful.

In addition to the above rounds, we've already got handgun rounds in
9mm and 10mm, plus rifle rounds in 5.56mm (NATO), 7mm, and 7.62mm (also
NATO).  There are others, but they tend to run towards the more exotic.

> Of course, I was always a fan of the very thin very high velocity round
> which should have a better penetration than any large (non-explosive) round
> in any case.  It will also, of course, do less damage (which is why you fire
> a three round burst, or full auto)

This may be true for infantry weapons, but for tanks, it's a different
story entirely.  The most effective anti-armor shell currently in use
by the U.S. Army's M1A2 MBT (main battle tank) is the 120mm APFSDS
(Armor-piercing, Fin-stabilized, Discarding-sabot) round.  It throws
a 10 lb. tungsten carbide 'flechette' at almost 5,500 fps.  When it
hits enemy armor (BTW, it can penetrate up to 15" of steel), it drives
throw the plating, disintegrating as it goes.  By the time penetration
is complete, roughly 100 fragments (from the dart and enemy tank hull)
over 1 oz. each, plus over 600 smaller fragments, are moving inside
the target at velocities still in excess of 2,800 fps.  What happens
to the enemy tank crew at that point is best left to the imagination
(although I do have a document that details the results, if anyone
is morbid enough to care.)

Later,

        Mark F. Cook

USMail: Hewlett-Packard
        Workstation Technology Division - Corvallis (Tech. Marketing)
        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330

INTERNET: markc@cv.hp.com
          markc%cv.hp.com@relay.hp.com

------------------------------

Bundle: 518
Archive-Message-Number: 6355
From: mgood@MIT.EDU
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 93 16:32:24 -0500
Subject: Cray Power Consumption


400,000 Kw/month = 400 MW/month = 13.33 MW a day

For one Traveller ton.  And that's without the associated
machinery.

Matt: Sorry if I cost you your job ;-)

When I asked here, they replies

"Why do you care?"  Brief explanation.  "Why do you REALLY want to know?"

Matt "Not Goldman" Goodman

------------------------------

Bundle: 518
Archive-Message-Number: 6356
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1993 14:18:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Dane Johnson <dane@halcyon.com>
Subject: Re: Basement Seutups

On Sat, 20 Nov 1993, Bertil Jonell wrote:

>   Wildstar noted the lack of small scale third party producers of Traveller
> material today.
>
>   Isn't this true for all games and all companies? Most small scale outfits
> either do their own thing or produce generic supplements(1), not many
> specialize in a specific game or even company.
>
>   Why? I don't know, but I'm open to the possibility that it is because
> something inherent in the system: Something in the way the distribution
> chain works or something about the profitability of supplements. Does anyone
> know?
>
At a guess, I'd say it has to do with the market and the whole profit
motive thing.  After all, if you're publishing Traveller stuff (or D&D
stuff or ShadowRun stuff or GURPS stuff) you are greatly dependent upon
the "parent" company to keep the game alive.  Plus, you will make less
than the parent because you have to pay them to sell stuff for their
game.  You can (I assume) make more money writing and distributing your
own game instead of supplements for someone elses.
	Why did it happen in the first place?  Because Gaming wasn't
quite the Industry that it is now.  Because some people were just
dedicated to the hobby.  Face it -- if you're publishing supplements in
your spare time and you start to get successful at it, wouldn't you like
to make it into a full-time job?  The best way would be to increase
profit and make your game company self-sufficient (ie, not dependent upon
another gaming company for policy...)  <Shrug>  Just my theory...


> -bertil-

Dane
djohnson@willamette.edu   dane@halcyon.edu   dane@io.com

TNS Stringer ------ Terra/Solomani Rim (1827 G867975-8)
"My opinions are those of my fuzz-brained, cat-sniffing Norwegian Elkhound."

------------------------------

Bundle: 518
Archive-Message-Number: 6357
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1993 16:35:33 -0600 (CST)
From: RJR96326@vax1.utulsa.edu
Subject: Weapon Calibres

Because somebody asked:
	A 30-06 (and its cousin, the 30-30) are more like a third of an inch.
Generally, weapons are measured in hundreths of an inch (.50= ~half an inch)
or metrically (the 5.56mm round of the M16). A good conversion is to
multipy the metric by 4 and shift the decimall two places to the left;
5.56mm =~.223.

As for examples:
	9mm=very accurate, pretty powerful pistol round. Also used in many
SMGs (like the Uzi).
	10mm, 11mm=major power; these are the guns that will knock a large
hole in you and knock you down to boot.
	7.62mm: fired from the M60 and many other light-mid sized machineguns
used by the US and most of NATO.
	5.56mm: used in the M16 and other Western weapons (like the M249
SAW).
	5.45: Used by Eastern European forces in their assault rilfes and
scaled versions thereof. Most of the AK series.
	7.62 (again) The Russians used a slightly different calibre, differing
primarily in length.

More, but I have little time.


J Roberson

------------------------------
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by the University of
Western Ontario. All opinions and materials below are the responsibility
of the originator.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 519  6358 20-Nov-1993 Derek Wildstar   Re: FF&S firearm designs << mju@ftp.com
 519  6359 21-Nov-1993 Anthony Neal     Weapons Question... << Hello all:
 519  6360 21-Nov-1993 Bryan Porter     << I'm running a T:TNE campaign in the
 519  6361 22-Nov-1993 AMNUSS@delphi.c  10mm Auto Pistol <<  This is a pistol I
 519  6362 22-Nov-1993 l.wiseman1@geni  <<  Scott "Spell it Like the Breakfast
 519  6363 22-Nov-1993 David Hall, cal  Re: Soviet machine gun stats and Twilig
 519  6364 22-Nov-1993 Adrian Hurt      Power or Energy? << goldman@orac.cray.c
 519  6365 22-Nov-1993 "Anthony K. Bag  Computer Power <<  I wish I'd never com
 519  6366 22-Nov-1993 James T Perkins  Weekend Warrior address << Weekend Warr
 519  6367 22-Nov-1993 "Anthony K. Bag  Units.... <<  Re: my other post today (
 519  6368 22-Nov-1993 M.A.S.           15mm Rifle << Speaking of large caliber
 519  6369 22-Nov-1993 Joe Heck         Survey << I've been curious about somet
 519  6370 22-Nov-1993 James M. Kelleh  guns... << Hi
 519  6371 22-Nov-1993 burnchrome@aol.  re: Blah Megawatt Lasers << One megawat
 519  6372 23-Nov-1993 Mike Basinger    Traveller-Like Novels << [Sorry, I post
 519  6373 23-Nov-1993 Mark F. Cook     Interesting Coincidence? << In Archive-

------------------------------

Bundle: 519
Archive-Message-Number: 6358
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 93 23:18:55 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@quark.qrc.com>
Subject: Re: FF&S firearm designs

mju@ftp.com (Mark Urbin) wrote:
> I've been reading the archives of the Beta test group.  I noticed someone
> was designing a *large* rifle.  In the 15mm range.  From what I remember,
> *large* weapons were coming out much bigger than their real-life counter-
> parts.  Is that still true or did GDW come up with a fix?

I don't know what the final rules look like, but GDW was looking
at that part of the design and considering changes.  One change
that they almost certainly made was to base receiver length on the
"average" energy (and not actual energy), which for these long, heavy
guns would reduce the mass of the receiver somewhat.  One fix
that was suggested was to use a different basis for computing the
receiver mass; I don't know if this change was made official or not.

>   If the 15mm rifle came out fairly close to what the designer was looking
> for, I'd like to hear about it.  I just finished re-reading Pournelle's
> Falkenberg's Legion books and noticed the 15mm sniper rifle used by the
> Royal Spartan Army and their Helot foes.  The 15mm rounds ignored the
> `improved Kevlar' used and was effective against light armored vehicles.
> Does the FF&S designs live up to this?

See below.  I "designed" a WWII-era Soviet weapon that will punch
pretty effective holes in most personal armor.  I'm certain that any
changes to FF&S since the draft I was using wouldn't change the damage
or penetration of the weapon, so you can use the "real world" values
for the weapon (included below) and the FF&S-generated game statistics
to put this weapon in your games now.


Peter H. Brenton <pete@biochem.uchicago.edu> wrote:
> for those of us not particularly familiar with real-life weapon
> diameters (or at least not in millimeters) could you put this into
> context please?
> I *thought* that a 30-06 rifle had a round 6/10ths of an inch in
> diameter (this doesn't sound right to me).

Sure.  The short answer is that the caliber of the weapon is the
diameter of the projectile, in inches or millimeters.  Therefore,
a .30-06 is 0.30 inches in diamater (that's 3/10ths).  The 15mm
rifle would be fire a 0.591 inch projectile (25.4mm = 1inch).  That's
nearly twice the diameter of the .30-06.

> This can't be right if your talking about 15mm
> being a *large* rifle, I assume your talking about an elephant rifle,
> not a deer rifle.  Could someone please correct me?

Actually, we're talking about a military weapon, and it bears little
resemblance to either a deer rifle or an elephant rifle.  Historically,
this class of rifle was designed in the late 30's and early 40's in an
attempt to design an infantry weapon that could penetrate the armor of
a tank.  Tank armor rapidly outstripped the ability of small-arms to
penetrate, and in general the weapons were used agains unarmored or lightly
armored vehicles, or agains infantry under cover, and the weapons fell out
of use.

Relatively recently, similar designs have been used as long-range sniper
rifles.  The large bullet, fired at high velocity from a long barrel, as
a very flat trajectory and is less affected by wind, making accurate long
range fire possible.  On the GDW-Beta discussion group, I took one of the
WWII era weapons, and someone else did a modern one.

In many cases, the cartirdge these weapons fire was used in large
machineguns as well, and has the same general characteristics; although
the muzzle velocity is a little higher due to the longer barrel of the
sniper or anti-tank weapon.  Note that *both* of these calibers are larger
than the US .50 caliber (12.7mm) M2HB machinegun.

> It would also be helpful to me if someone could post a list of standard 'real'
> weapon calibers and show their diameter in mm (ie. .357 Magnum=XXmm pistol).

Sure.  Here's a table that gives dimensions in mm, and the "common name" of
just about every round that was readily available for research.  You can
figure out the diameter in inches by dividing the size in mm by 25.4 (this
is an exact conversion).  I also listed some of the more common weapons that
use this ammunition, in the hopes that either the common name or a weapon name
would provide a memory handle you can use to relate everything.  Pistol and
rifle rounds are listed together on the list; you will notice that pistols
generally have shorter cartridges, though.

Designation	Name			Used In (typical weapons)

4.7x21mmC	4.7mm Caseless		Heckler & Koch G-11
5.45x39mm	(unknown)		AKS-74
5.56x45mm	.223 Remington		M16A1, FN-CAL, Valmet M82, Galil ARM
5.7x17mmR	.22 Long Rifle		High Standard .22, AR-7
6.35x15.5mmSR	.25 ACP or .25 Auto	Colt .25 Automatic
7.62x25mm	.30 Mauser		Mauser M1896, Tokarev M1933, PPsh-41
7.62x39mm	7.62 Short		SKS, AK-47, AKM-47, RPD, RPK
7.62x51mmR	.30-30			Winchester 94
7.62x51mm	7.62 NATO or .308 Win	M-14, FN-FAL, L42A1, G-3, M60, Minigun
7.62x54mmR	7.62mm Russian		SVD, SG-43, PKM, Vz-59
7.62x63mm	.30-06			Springfield M1903, M1 Garand, BAR
7.62x66mmB	.300 Winchester Magnum	Walther WA-2000
7.65x17mmSR	.32 ACP or .32 Auto	Welrod "Silent", Vz-61 "Skorpion"
7.7x56mmR	.303 British		Enfield, Vickers, Lewis, Bren
7.7x58mm	7.7mm Arisaka		Arisaka M99 (WWII Japanese rifle)
7.92x57mm	8mm Mauser		Kar-98k, FG-42, MG-08, MG-34, MG-42
8x21mm		8mm Nambu		Type 14 Nambu (WWII Japanese sidearm)
9x17mm		.380 Auto or 9mm Short	Walther PPK, Ingram M11
9x18mm		9mm Makarov		P64, Makarov, Stechkin, PM-63
9x19mm		9mm Parabellum (9mmP)	Luger P-08, S&W M39, UZI
9x29mmR		.38 Special or .38 S&W	Colt Police Positive
9x33mmR		.357 Magnum		S&W M27, Colt Python
10.8x33mmR	.44-40			Winchester M1873
10.97x33mmR	.44 Magnum		S&W M29 "Dirty Harry"
11.2x32mm	.44 Automag		.44 Automag
11.43x23mm	.45 ACP or .45 Auto	Colt M1911A1, Thompson M1928A1
11.43x60mmR	.45 Martini		Martini-Henry Mk.I
11.56x33mmR	.45 Colt		Colt M1873
11.6x54mmR	.45-70			Springfield Trapdoor, 1874 Gatling Gun
11.6x63.5mmB	.458 Winchester Magnum	Winchester M70 African
11.6x74mmB	.460 Wetherby Magnum	.460 Weatherby Mk.V
12.7x83mmR	.50-140 Sharps		Sharps M1874 "Buffalo Rifle"
12.7x99mmB	.50 Browning		.50 Cal M2HB
12.7x108mmB	Type BZ			DshK M38/46 (Russan Heavy MG)
13.9x22mmR	.56/50 Spencer		Spencer .56 (1st US-issue metal cart)
13.9x99mmB	.55 Boys		.55 Boys Mk.I
14.45x114mmB	Type BS-41		PTRS-41, KPV
15.7x76mmR	.600 Nitro Express	.600 Nitro Double Rifle "Elephang Gun"

The "Designation" follows the NATO standard for such things, and is simply
the diameter of the projectile by the length of the cartridge case, both
measured in millimeters.  So, the .357 Magnum is 9mm in diameter, and the
cartridge case is 33mm long.  The letters at the end of the designation
indicate the style of the rim at the base of the cartridge.  No letter is
a standard rimless cartridge as used in most modern designs (rimless
cartridges feed better through belts and magazines).  A "R" indicates a
rimmed cartridge, which is a very old style and commonly found only in
revolvers.  "SR" indicates a semi-rimmed round; this is a compromise between
the easier extraction of a rimmed case and the easier feeding of the rimless
design.  A "B" indicates a belted case, used on very powerful rounds to
give the cartridge extra strength.  And last (but not least) a "C" indicates
a caseless round.

> I also wonder about how ff&s handles recoil for these *large* rifles.

FF&S computes recoil based on the muzzle energy of the round and the total
mass of the gun (and a couple of other factors thrown in for good measure).
Since these guns are quite heavy (even without the draft
rules making them heavier than they would be otherwise), the recoil comes
out fairly low, particularly considering how much damage they do.  Then again,
these large rifles are designed to be fired while stationary, from a bipod.


Here is the rifle I promised earlier.  Take the FF&S figures with a grain
of salt, because I was using a draft of the rules; the final rules will
probably do much better.  To use this weapon in your games now, take
the values from the "Real World" column.  When you need information that's
not there (like price in credits) refer over to the FF&S column.  Note
that the FF&S column includes information on a (hypothetical) TL-8 discarding
sabot round which was never actually manufactured for this gun.  This
might be a particularly interesting twist on the gun; there's no reason why
DS ammunition *shouldn't* work ...

No longer do your TL-5, xenophobic natives have to cower in fear of
Reformation Coalition backed Star Vikings.  Have the local warlord call
up a few squads of these "poor man's fusion guns".  With Ball ammunition
(locally producable at TL-5), they can penetrate TL-10 Battle Dress and
any Combat Armor.

With DS ammunition (a TL-8 item), these weapons have damage and penetration
equal to (or better than, particularly at longer ranges) the FGMP-14 and
FGMP-15 and can effectively defeat all forms of personal armor, as well as
the side, deck, belly, and turret armor of the G-Carrier and the Grav Tank.
Given their relative low cost, particularly when compared to their high-tech
opponents Battle Dress (Cr220,000) and Fusion Gun (Cr54,000), these weapons
are clearly very cost-effective.


Example 5: 14.5mm Protivotankovoe Ruzh'yo obr 1941g (PTRS-41)


Item			FF&S Value		"Real-World" Value
			 (note 1)	(all values taken from published
			Ball	DS	 real-world data except as noted)
I. Ammunition
	Tech Level:	5			USSR circa 1941
	Caliber:	14.5mm			14.5mm
	Length:		146.7mm			114mm
	Type:		Necked			Necked, AP Incendiary
	Overall Length:	175.7mm			?
	Mass:		242.25g			201g
	Average Energy:	31007J			31017J
	Price:		Cr12.1	Cr24.2		?

II. Weapon Design
  1. Barrel
	Average Barrel:	147.5cm			139cm
	Actual Barrel:	139cm			139cm
	Type:		Heavy
	Weight:		4.17kg			?
	Price:		Cr1668			?
	Actual Energy:	30123J			31017J
	Damage:		12	12		* 12
	Penetration:	2-2-3	1-1-2		* 2-2-3

  2. Receiver
	Type:		Light Self-Loader	Semi-Automatic		
	Length:		95.5cm			?
	Mass:		30.123kg		?
	Price:		Cr6024.6		?

  3. Stocks
	Type:		Wooden Rifle Stock	Wooden stocks, carrying
	Length:		25cm			handles, and integral bipod.
	Mass:		1kg
	Price:		Cr25
	Barrel Len Mod:	0.9145			* 1
	Close Range:	206.3m	247.6m		* 229.0m

  4. Feed System
	Type:		Box Magazine (note 2)	Internal Magazine, clip loaded
	Capacity:	5			5
	Mass:		1.308kg			?
	Cost		Cr1309			?
	Loaded Mass:	2.519kg			1.193kg

  5. Options
	? Total Mass:	36.601kg (w/o bipod)	22.053kg (with bipod)
	? Total Length:	259.5cm			213.4cm
	? Total Price:	Cr9026.6			?
	Recoil:		5 			* 5
	Bulk:		17			* 14
    b. Bipod
	Bipod Mass:	15.062
	Bipod Cost:	Cr200.6
	Total Mass:	51.663kg		22.053kg
	Total Cost:	Cr9227.2
	Recoil:		3			* 3

* Gaming data computed from real-world values with FF&S formulae.

Notes:
1 - Whenever two figures are given, the first is for ball (an option for
Armor-Piercing Incendiary would have been nice) and the second is for the
"high-tech" (TL-8) Discarding Sabot round.
2 - Figuring the internal magazine as a box magazine that's permanently
attached to the weapon.  I'm also using the grams to kilograms "fix" that
I mentioned in my first weapon design.

Comments: Yes, this really was a real gun.  Originally designed as a man
portable, anti-tank small arms rifle by the Soviets during WWII, the gun
was quickly outclassed by the rapidly improving armor protection of
German tanks.  The cartridge lives on as the ammuntion for the TL-6 KPV
machinegun (found on many Soviet armored vehicles and anti-aircraft
defenses).  The gas-operated action of this rifle (scaled down, of course)
found its way into the SKS rifle.

Tactical Considerations:
The close range of this weapon exceeds the extreme range of every fusion
gun except the FGMP-14 and -15, and the short range equals or exceeds the
extreme range of any of the fusion guns.  The best use of these weapons
would be long-range fire at the attackers, from behind cover (preferably
cover strong enough to resist an extreme-range fusion gun strike) or
sniping from outside the range of their weapons.  If this is impossible
(and it frequently is), then a series protected positions likeley to suprise
the enemy are good (around a corner in a corridor, for example).

Game Use:
This weapon (or rather, one using the "real world" stats and not the FF&S
design, which is completely impractical) could be quite useful to anti-RC
forces in the New Era.  A relatively low-tech design, it is quite capable
of being manufactured by many worlds in the Wilds.  Although the DS
ammunition is probably going to be considerably harder to produce, there
will probably be a number of worlds equipped with it.  As Star Viking
activities expand, it is very likeley that traders operating in the wilds
will find a demand for this type of weapon.

Several adventure plotlines are possible around this weapon; one which
suggests itself to me is probably obvious.  The players (RCES or 'Lancers)
attempt a smash-n-grab on some TL-5 to TL-7 dictator.  They expect an easy
time of it.  Pull this one on your players after they've done two or three
of the same type of missions in a row and have had a chance to get
overconfident and complacent.  Suprise them with the weapon; without the DS
ammunition, it shouldn't be too deadly, but should (if employed well) be
able to prevent the PCs from accomplishing some or all of their objectives.
Drive home to them in a practical sort of way how difficult their lives
would be if lots of worlds had them.  Later developments in the campaign can
involve efforts to stop free traders from spreading the guns (or the designs)
around the area.  Another one might have to do with discovering that someone
is producing DS ammunition.


wildstar@quark.qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In the Far Future

------------------------------

Bundle: 519
Archive-Message-Number: 6359
From: Anthony Neal <anthonyn@cs.mun.ca>
Subject: Weapons Question...
Date: 	Sun, 21 Nov 1993 02:43:15 -0330

Hello all:

	Been quiet for a while, so I thought I'd return and ask another question:


	There's been a little talk about weapon calibres, and I believe that
someone mentioned (Sorry, I have forgotten the name. Damn! No undelete!) that
10mm and 11mm weapons were killer, mess you up, knock you down, etc... guns.
So, like, does anyone have any MT writeups on some of these babies?

	I already have most of the released portions of Bertil's Machinetools
supplement, but wouldn't mind some other stuff to add along. I'm putting
everything in WP (Maybe Latex later on if I can afford the manual 8-> ) and
think that it would be neat to have some other designs. All credit will be
duly noted.

	And, in closing, does anyone know what the address of the Weekend Warrior
is, and if they have any copies of Guns Guns Guns left? Striker? I'm in the
mood to create a few playthings.

	Thanks All,
	Anthony

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Anthony Neal                |"Lets bring up the cargo manifest. 2300 laser
anthonyn@mercury.cs.mun.ca  | pistols, 1600 laser rifles, 1 ATV, 67 suits of
Memorial University Of      | combat armor and...    What the hell are
Newfoundland                | 'tribbles'?"
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Bundle: 519
Archive-Message-Number: 6360
Date:         Sun, 21 Nov 93 13:00:23 EST
From: Bryan Porter <BVPORTER@MIAMIU.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>

I'm running a T:TNE campaign in the Old Expanses with the PC's as an RCES
smash and grab unit.  I was thinking about how some worlds would cope with
the Virus and I started wondering about alien races who inhabited worlds
before the Imperium.  As I understand it, the Imperium didn't always worry
about what the natives thought when it wanted a new planet.

So what I want to know is this, what races in the Traveller universe would
make the most of the collapse of the Imperium?  I think some races would be
better prepared than humanity since they probably had a lower (in some cases
much lower) tech level than the Imperium.  Some races would probably be
working with humans to rebuild, others would see it as divine deliverance,
and others would want what was unattainable to their people (Mogwa from
The Last of the Mohicans is an example).  There could even be pocket empires
of races that have attained jump drive from previous Imperial technology.
As a newcomer to Traveller, I don't know much about alien races in the game,
so any info, especially about races in or near the Old Expanses, would be
appreciated.

Bryan Porter

------------------------------

Bundle: 519
Archive-Message-Number: 6361
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1993 00:26:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: AMNUSS@delphi.com
Subject: 10mm Auto Pistol

 This is a pistol I designed about 2 years ago.  The weight and price I
 got out of an article in a gun magazine.  The other stats I worked on until
 I got a good play balance.

 10mm Auto Pistol
 TL=8  VOL=1.2L  WT=1.08KG  PRICE= Cr360  MAGSIZE=10  MAGWT=0.5KG PRICE=Cr20
 TL=10 VOL=1.2L  WT=1.00KG  PRICE=Cr300  MAGSIZE=15  MAGWT=0.53KG PRICE=Cr30

 TL  ROUND   SIG   RECOIL    DGRSPACE
 8   SLUG    MED   MED/R
 8   HE      MED   MED/R      1.5m

 10  SLUG    MED   MED/R
 10  HE      MED   MED/R      1.5m

 TL  ROUND   MAXRANGE     CLOSE   SHORT   MED   LONG   DAMAGE
 8   SLUG    LONG          S/3     R/3    D/3    F/1     3
 8   HE      LONG          S/2     R/2    D/2    F/1     4

 10  SLUG    LONG          S/3     R/3    D/3    F/1     3
 10  HE      LONG          S/2     R/2    D/2    F/1     4

 For the range given, Hit Difficulty/Penetration is listed.

 Alan

------------------------------


Bundle: 519
Archive-Message-Number: 6362
From: l.wiseman1@genie.geis.com
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 93 04:11:00 BST
Subject:

 Scott "Spell it Like the Breakfast Cereal" Kellogg:
 > I would say tho, that up until TL 6 or so, almost every
 > prototype of anything is hand made.  Guns, planes,
 > trains, automobiles and battleships.
 True. Also, I believe aircraft were largely made one at a time
 until the 1930s (when Lindberg wanted a plane, he went to Ryan
 and they built it for him...albeit according to a standard
 pattern, modified to suit his individual requirements...pretty
 much the way George Washington would have bought a carriage).

 The way Hans has it set up, however, standardized parts would
 seem to be out the window, so it looks to me like repairmen are
 pretty much going to have to fabricate replacement parts from
 scratch.
      ------------------------------
 David Johnson:
 > reading through the rule book last night I saw some entries in
 > the pen column of the ammunition to be 1C (This was mainly
 > by the HEAP rounds) what does this mean.
 1C means that the ammunition's penetration is a constant 1
 throughout its range, that is, that is, it does not vary with the
 distance the round has travelled. For small arms this is
 sometimes written as 1-1-1.
 > Refering to the fact that some rounds had not chance of getting
 > past the armour (as mentioned in some other messages), have
 > you consider the impact damage that is refered to in the rule
 > book. i.e. When it is still possible to be damaged, even though
 > the round did not get through. I was only skimming the book
 > yesterday so I may have missed a few details but I think this
 > is correct
 This is called blunt trauma (Traveller: TNE page 285), and it
 counts towards wound effects such as knockdown, initiative loss,
 and so on. A weapon with a damage of 4 and penetration of 1
 hitting an AV of 4 would not penetrate, but would do 4 points of
 damage nevertheless.
      ------------------------------
 Bruce Pihlamae:
  > Can somebody post some sample firefights (and calculations)
  > with a variety of weapons to show me that I'm not reading the
  > rules right or where I'm going wrong?
  HEAP, with a penetration of 1 should lose 1 point of damage for
 each level of armor it penetrates.
 From TNE, page 285: "Multiply the target's armor protection by
 the weapon's penetration value, and subtract the result from the
 weapon's damage value." A snub pistol HEAP round (at any range)
 has a penetration of 1C (or 1-1-1) and a damage of 2. Vest's AV
 of 1 times Penetration of 1 = 1, and 2-1 = 1 damage die per round
 (that much math I am capable of doing without a calculator!).
 If you hit the guy 5 times in the vest (chest or abdomen hits)
 this should have done 5 dice of damage (5D6 damage points) plus 5
 points of blunt trauma (in this case, 1 point per round that
 didn't penetrate, see also p. 285). 5D6 will average 17.5 (3.5*5
 = 17.5), plus 5 = 22.5. If they are chest hits, each hit die
 causes a test under the provision of the Quick Kill rule (in this
 case, five D20 rolls for 2 or less, what's that...a 40% chance of
 croaking from Quick Kill alone?). For abdomen hits, the Quick
 Kill rule doesn't apply (chest or head hits only).

 (All of this assumes you didn't get a conspicuous success in
 one of the To Hit die rolls...if so, you do double damage.)

 If the hits taken in a single turn exceed the character's
 Agility, the character is knocked down (if all 22.5 hit the
 target in one turn, even the strongest character will be arsey-
 varsey) and can't conduct any actions for the rest of the turn.
 This should enable you to clog-dance on his/her neck or put a
 couple rounds point-blank into the body part of your choice (or
 get a head start at running away, if you've a mind).

 Now, as for wound effects, this will vary with the attributes
 of the target character, but the first time a character is
 wounded (1 point is enough) that character loses his/her next
 action. If the hits all go into the abdomen, the average
 character will be seriously wounded by 22.5 points. If they all
 go into the chest, 22.5 will cause a slight wound. Just for
 comparison, 22.5 hits in the head would be a Critical wound, and
 result in immediate death, 22.5 hits in an arm or leg would be a
 serious wound.

 A Serious wound means that a character has to make a D100 roll
 against their Constitition to stay conscious, and repeat this
 roll every turn in which they wish to conduct any action(s). A
 Serious wound also reduces the character's strength by half, and
 knocks 2 points off of their initiative (in addition to the
 initiative reduction for slight wound, for a total of 3). Serious
 wounds in a limb cause the character to lose the use of that
 limb.

  ------------------------------

 Speaking of combat, here's a question. When a rifle bullet
 passes through a human head, which way will the head be
 propelled, all other things being equal?
  A. In the same direction as the bullet is travelling.
  B. In the opposite direction from that the bullet is travelling.
  For the wrong answer, see Oliver Stone's film _JFK_.
  ------------------------------
  J Roberson
  > As for lasers, let's discuss armor. Kevlar is made up of a
  > ballistic weave, like a big quilt.
  "quilt" would not be the word I would use, but I suppose that's
 close enough
  > When something blunt (a bat, a bullet) hits it,
  > it spreads the damage out over a greater surface area,
  > dispersing it in a way. However, as a weave, it is
  > very susceptible to impaling attacks, like knive and
  > lasers (which are pretty thin). I would igore the armor
  > rating againt laser for any armor based on such a weave
  > (though hard armor, like a battlesuit, should have full
  > protection).
  Our original laser penetration research was based on some SDI
 documents, which indicated that small lasers (along the lines of
 what we are talking about for small arms) were very poor
 penetrators. Further investigation indicates that they are poor
 penetrators against metal and other dense materials.

 One of the experimental rules we are playing around with is to
 make lasers ignore all non-metallic/ceramic/hard armor, meaning
 they will go through ballistic cloth like it isn't there, but
 will be stopped by battledress and the like. This is for lasers
 only (not plasma/fusion weapons).
  ------------------------------
  A few corrections to Kerry Harrison's notes concerning TNE
 items (manufacturer's suggested retail price):
  Available Now:
  Product #   Title                      Price (US$)
  300         Traveller: The New Era     $25
  301         Survival Margin            $10
  303         Brilliant Lances           $30
  306         Traveller Player's Forms   $14
  Due in November:
  304         Fire, Fusion & Steel       $16
  Due in December:
  302        Deluxe Traveller            $40
  Delay with the box...everything is else is OK (don't ask about
 the Johnny Reb boxes).
  Due in January:
  307 Traveller Referee Screen      $8
  Check your local store first, and if they can't get them for
 you, you can order from us. Email your wants, your shipping
 address, and a Visa or Mastercard number (include expiration date
 and the name as it appears on the card).
  ------------------------------
  Glenn E. Myers
  gmyers@swanson.com
  I have a few questions concerning BL.
  > (1) Has anyone found the stats for the Manta fuel skimmer
  > listed in the Aurora-Class Clipper.
  Yes. They were right there in Dave's office all the time...: )
  RCES "Manta" Fuel Skimmer
  Rate:                                 400
  Total Volume:                         5600
  Price (MCr):                          119.57359
  Configuration:                        Dome/Disc SL
  Armor:                                31
MW TL-12 Fusion PPlant (150kl/hr), C-G TL-12 Hi-Eff, TL-12
 Linked controls, TL-8+ Avionics, 3xTL-12 Model ST
rs, 60,000 Active EMS TL-12, 60,000 km TL-12 Passive EMS
, 60,000 km TL-12 Passive EMS Antenna (fixed), EMM
ge, 300,000km Radio, 1,000 AU Maser Commo, Basic Life
, Artifical Gravity/G Compensators, Bridge
stations), Engineering (8xworkstations), Sm. Cargo Hatch,
4), Fuel Scoop.
s normally converted into field expedient crew quarters.
:  Loaded:   2788.566 tonnes
     Empty:    2410.166 tonnes
hrust megawatts
rs: 3 Gs for 8.25 hours = 24.75 GHours.
Crew: 12 (8xEngineering, 1xElectronics, 1xManeuver,
enance, 1xCommand).
idge Workstations: 3
gineering Workstations: 8
 me know if I left anything out...Dave's notes on the ship
tle hard to read.
s there been any reference to the capacitors used with
lobes.
 Globes will be in FF&S
- -------------------
s:
succumbed to Pop Culture and visual media
literature to get my point across, I am
mistakably a member of Generation X! Acck!)
al media as a reference predates the birth of many of
bers of the Baby Busters (or Generation X if you will).
 is one of their hallmarks, it is not unique to them.
such people lead quite normal lives... I'd advise you to try
ink about it so much.

  (you _can_ still read, can't you?)
- -------------------------
hock" <34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
ings up an interesting question: how does a character
ccquire level 0 skills, aside from the default skills? Is
one through training? points?
Not at all?
hnically speaking, not at all (training and points all give
imum of 1 point, and only with skills you already have).
 this comes under the heading of ref's common sense. In my
, I'd give a character a skill zero if said character
eded one or more times at an unskilled task attempt (only
 for an impossible success, never for any number of
 successes, etcetera).
- ------------------------
ck Dietz,
jdietz@ucsd.edu, jdietz@egbt.org
> Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow.
What a blast from the past! John M. Ford and I _founded_ EGBT.
le I was giving out EGBT pencils. I was going to get
EGBT lolli-pops [fnord] made up but they turned out to be
xpensive in the small quantities I wanted.

------------------------------

Bundle: 519
Archive-Message-Number: 6363
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1993 02:08:35 -0600
From: dghall@students.wisc.edu (David Hall, calling from "Books on Brooks")
Subject: Re: Soviet machine gun stats and Twilight:2000 2nd ed.

>From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@quark.qrc.com>
>Subject: Re: FF&S firearm designs
>
>Here is the rifle I promised earlier.  Take the FF&S figures with a grain
>of salt, because I was using a draft of the rules; the final rules will
>probably do much better.  To use this weapon in your games now, take
>the values from the "Real World" column.  When you need information that's
>not there (like price in credits) refer over to the FF&S column.  Note
>that the FF&S column includes information on a (hypothetical) TL-8 discarding
>sabot round which was never actually manufactured for this gun.  This
>might be a particularly interesting twist on the gun; there's no reason why
>DS ammunition *shouldn't* work ...

Curiously enough, the game stats you produced are remarkably similar to
those of the Twilight:2000 stats for the current version (i.e. 1980s) of
the same historical weapon (T2K calls it the "PK-14" or some such...)

I wonder if maybe FF&S is intended to use the same formulae that GDW used
for the T2K 2nd edition rules (I seem to remember Frank Chadwick talking at
GenCon about setting up specific conversion formulas for the 2nd ed, based
on "real world data" like ejection velocity, etc.)...

As for a DS round, sounds pretty neat (and suitably nasty, talk about
shredding Combat Armor!) -- just don't tell any Twilight players about
it...  *grin*


                                        DGH
                                        just another query from some
                                        dark dust cloud somewhere...



************    &&&&&&&&    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^     &&&&&&&&&&&&&     ************
David Hall                                         dghall@students.wisc.edu
Univ. of Wisconsin Madison      Political Science/Philosophy/You Name It
logged in for far too                           courtesy of UW -Madison's
many hours of the day                           WiscWorld Dialin Service


------------------------------

Bundle: 519
Archive-Message-Number: 6364
From: adrian@cee.hw.ac.uk (Adrian Hurt)
Subject: Power or Energy?
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 93 9:27:10 WET

goldman@orac.cray.com (Goldman of Chaos -- postmaster CRI-US) writes:
>
> mgood@MIT.EDU said the following:
> >
> > Hey, Matthew Goldman, would you be giving away any trade secrets
> > if you told us how much power a top o the line Cray uses?  In MW per
> > day?
>
> Around 400,000 Kw per month?  That's based upon just the CPU, not
> counting the disk drives and cooling system.  People looked at my
> really strangly when I asked.

I wonder if they looked at you strangely because you were asking about
MW per day or kW per month? :-)

As far as I know, Watts are a measure of power, which is how much energy
moves around per unit time.  The machine doesn't use 400,000 kW per month.
It uses 400,000 kW, which by definition is 400,000 kJ per second, or about
1 million MJ per month.  J is Joules, a measure of energy.

The only way that "kW per month" might make sense is if the power consumption
changes regularly, e.g. if you buy a new disc drive every month.

Or have the laws of physics changed while I've been sleeping? :-)

- --
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cee
 UUCP: ..!uknet!cee.hw.ac.uk!adrian  |  ARPA:  adrian@cee.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Bundle: 519
Archive-Message-Number: 6365
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 93 10:49:27 GMT
From: "Anthony K. Baggaley" <MCDAPAB@cms.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk>
Subject: Computer Power

 I wish I'd never commented on power consumption, and I wasn't going to mention
  it again, until a couple of messages confused me....

 Power Consumption for a 1 Traveller Displacement Ton computer was given as
  400 000 kW/month, therefore 13.33 mW/day. The units are not exactly correct,
  just like the GDW source material in fact, which confuses Joules and Watts
  all over the place (they've got better, but they still switched them around
  at least once in the Challenge 71 Lasers articles I think).

 I'm sure the original 400 000 kW/month means something in the real world,
  could someone elaborate? (my guess is they meant kW/hours not kW, which
  gives a 0.555 mW power consupmtion which is 'distinctly non-trivial' as my
  tutor once said)

 Overall I think I'll stick to Energy Points, at least you know what the units
  are :)

 From the comments on the TML it looks like FFS is going to be quite good,
  if it turns out VERY good I might even be tempted to start using the T2000
  rules, but probably not. I have problems with TNE because I don't like the
  background, I don't like the system, and I don't like the graphics style....
  Maybe GDW lost a customer here (nahhh.... I'll still buy anything with
  'Traveller' printed on it)

                       Ready to be corrected....
                                  Anthony K   (asking Santa for Azhanti High
                                                                Lightning)
  PS: Any news on the Traveller CD ROM ?
  PPS: Thanks to whoever posted the ideas on Virus (I lost the message and the
       name) I love the idea of Vampire ships rebuilding the Imperium inside
       the Black Curtain. Wander in and everything is just as it was in 1100 :)
       You'd have to explain why no radio messages got out....

------------------------------

Bundle: 519
Archive-Message-Number: 6366
Subject: Weekend Warrior address
Reply-To: jamesp@sp-eug.com (James T Perkins)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 93 06:43:36 PST
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@sp-eug.com>

Weekend Warrior specializes in out-of-print games, particularly GDW:

	Weekend Warrior
	8116 Van Noor Ave.
	No. Hollywood, CA 91605
	United States of America
	Voice: (818)988-1441    Fax: (818)988-1998

Payment in US funds by Postal Money Order, Personal Money Order or Bank
Draft. Allow for an extra 10 days for payment made by personal check if
unknown to them.

James

------------------------------

Bundle: 519
Archive-Message-Number: 6367
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 93 14:30:09 GMT
From: "Anthony K. Baggaley" <MCDAPAB@cms.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk>
Subject: Units....

 Re: my other post today (why do I never get it right first time?)

 I cann't believe I put 'mW' in there. I was of course talking about Megawatts,
 not milliwatts. I should know all this SI stuff by now (slaps hand- 'BAD
 Scientist')

 All this mathematics and science is probably why Traveller lost popularity in
 the first place, but I've found it keeps the idiots away :)

                                Anthony K
  (who wasted good Carousing time learning all this science so is damn well
   going to use it)

------------------------------

Bundle: 519
Archive-Message-Number: 6368
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 93 13:44:32 -0600
From: mas@vortex.lgs.lsu.edu (M.A.S.)
Subject: 15mm Rifle


Speaking of large caliber rifles, I recall that the Finnish in WWII had a
excellent 20mm Anti-Tank rifle, called the Lahti, I believe.  It was bipod
mounted and semi-automatic, also.  I'm not quite sure how they handled the
recoil, or anything else about it, however.  Anybody know anything more?

				---Lee Eilers
				---mas@vortex.lgs.lsu.edu


------------------------------

Bundle: 519
Archive-Message-Number: 6369
Date:         Mon, 22 Nov 93 16:10:21 CST
From: Joe Heck <CCJOE@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu>
Subject:      Survey

I've been curious about something for quite a while. How many people that
subscribe to the TML, CAT &/or TNE Pocket have access to (and use) Gopher or
WWW?

Quite a while ago, it was determined (read I can't remember who or how) that
the most common graphic format that TML'ers, etc can use is GIF. How about
these new resources?

Please drop me some Email if you use (or can't use) either of these. Thanks
(this includes all those lurkers hiding out there!)

thanks!

 joe                          University of Missouri - Columbia
 ccjoe@mizzou1.missouri.edu   (314) 882-5000

------------------------------

Bundle: 519
Archive-Message-Number: 6370
Subject: guns...
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 93 22:24:44 PST
From: James M. Kelleher <kelleher@holonet.net>

Hi
I saw a post that discussed some one devloping a 15mm gun for T:TNE
I guess the person who posted didn't have his calculater with him...
:-)
I'll make this quick.

 .223 caliber = 5.56mm
 .30    "     " 7.62mm
 .32    "     " 7.65mm
 .357 & .38   = 9mm
 .40          = 10mm
 .45          = 11mm
 .50          = 12.7mm
 .600         = 15mm aproximately ( by my calculator close enough for
government work... :-) )
 .50 is 1/2 inch so what the person is desiging is an elephant gun.
called a 600 nitro express I've seen one but have never had the chance
to shoot one...
so it shouldn't be too out of line to design one.
see ya
jim
- --
Remember: no matter where you go...
There you are...
B. Banzi

James M. Kelleher
kelleher@holonet.net


------------------------------

Bundle: 519
Archive-Message-Number: 6371
From: burnchrome@aol.com
Reply-To: burnchrome@aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 93 22:23:37 EST
Subject: re: Blah Megawatt Lasers

One megawatt of energy, in terms of laser light, would provide a 3' wide beam
of coherent light (laser) from wall street to the statue of liberty. The beam
would be visible up to 30 miles away, depending on atmospheric conditions.

Just thinking...

Paul Murphy

------------------------------

Bundle: 519
Archive-Message-Number: 6372
From: Mike Basinger <dbasinge@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Traveller-Like Novels
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 13:39:15 -0500 (EST)

[Sorry, I posted this note a couple of monthes ago, and losted all the
replies I got]

I'm looking for some sci-fi novels that have a Traveller-Like
background to them (government, techonolgy, etc...). I know GDW is
planning on releasing some Traveller novel, but who knows when that is
going to be.

Thanks,
Mike

ps: I'm going to post a simular note on rec.games.frp.misc, once again
sorry

- --
D. Michael Basinger: 	Not speaking for Indiana University
			dbasinge@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu
			dbasinge@arapahoe.ucs.indiana.edu (NeXT Mail)

------------------------------

Bundle: 519
Archive-Message-Number: 6373
From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvxmk0.cv.hp.com>
Subject: Interesting Coincidence?
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 93 15:54:29 PST

In Archive-Message-Number 6362 (Bundle 519) Loren Wiseman
(l.wiseman1@genie.geis.com) writes:

> Glenn E. Myers
> gmyers@swanson.com
> I have a few questions concerning BL.
> > (1) Has anyone found the stats for the Manta fuel skimmer
> > listed in the Aurora-Class Clipper.
> Yes. They were right there in Dave's office all the time...: )
> RCES "Manta" Fuel Skimmer
> Rate:                                 400
> Total Volume:                         5600
> Price (MCr):                          119.57359
> Configuration:                        Dome/Disc SL
>    ...

I've not purchased a single Traveller product since "Survival Margin",
as I'm not interested in either moving to a game system, or in
abandoning the Imperium.  Thus, I've no experience with the "Brilliant
Lances" product for Traveller:TNE.  I *am* however, curious to know
where the idea for this Manta 'fuel skimmer' design originated, since
I designed almost *exactly* the same ship (with the same class name)
for the TML PBEM over TWO YEARS AGO.  (I have the dated electronic
archives to prove it.)  I also find it convienently coincidental that
the clipper it supports is named after *another* starship in the very
same long-running (5 years), international Traveller PBEM, created by
Richard Johnson, and currently run by Mike Metlay and myself.

It looks to me as though someone took the original (PBEM) Manta gas
mining ships and modified the designs to use the new TNE ship design
rules.

Where *exactly* did Dave (Nilsen, I assume) get these ideas?

        Mark F. Cook

USMail: Hewlett-Packard
        Workstation Technology Division - Corvallis (Tech. Marketing)
        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330

INTERNET: markc@cv.hp.com
          markc%cv.hp.com@relay.hp.com

------------------------------
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by the University of
Western Ontario. All opinions and materials below are the responsibility
of the originator.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 520  6374 23-Nov-1993 Jeff Zeitlin     Starports <<   I'm starting to work up
 520  6375 24-Nov-1993 Bertil Jonell    Re: Survey << > I've been curious about
 520  6376 24-Nov-1993 Peter H. Brento  novel << Mike Basinger asked about trav
 520  6377 24-Nov-1993 James T Perkins  Gobble gobble! << Happy Thanksgiving da
 520  6378 24-Nov-1993 Glenn Myers      Grav vs. Contragrav << Hi All,
 520  6379 24-Nov-1993 WADDELL@delphi.  Traveller Novels << Re: Traveller Novel
 520  6380 24-Nov-1993 [Caffine Achiev  grav/contra-grav << >Bundle: 520
 520  6381 25-Nov-1993 Stewart Eyres    Gopher,WWW,Power << >
   0     0 25-Nov-1993 A.S.Lilly@bnr.c  Re: Traveller Novels (Mike Bassinger's
 520  6382 25-Nov-1993 Anthony Neal     Antimatter and Jump Drives... << Hello
 520  6383 25-Nov-1993 Arthur Green     Re: TML nightly: Msgs 6374-6378 V64#17
 520  6384 25-Nov-1993 James Kundert    Traveller-esque Books << Mike Basinger
 520  6385 26-Nov-1993 Timothy Little   COmputer power << > 400,000 Kw/month =
 520  6386 26-Nov-1993 pihlab@cbr.hhcs  Just a NIT <<                   I N T E
 520  6387 26-Nov-1993 David Rodger     Players in D.C./Maryland Area << Hi -
 520  6388 26-Nov-1993 Dan Corrin       Animal encounters program << ----- Begi
 520  6389 26-Nov-1993 mgood@MIT.EDU    Traveller Novels << Become The Hunted b
 520  6390 26-Nov-1993 burnchrome@aol.  Re: catchin up with GDW << Yo,
 520  6391 26-Nov-1993 Glenn Myers      More contragrav musings << Hi All,
 520  6392 27-Nov-1993 AMNUSS@delphi.c  books <<  The Jerrerson P. Swycaffer bo
 520  6393 27-Nov-1993 Steve Gibbons    Fiction << This may be slightly off-top
 520  6394 27-Nov-1993 RJR96326@vax1.u  Aslan << Back to the Aslan thread brife
 520  6395 29-Nov-1993 Mark Urbin       15mm rifles and armor types << James M.
 520  6396 29-Nov-1993 GOSS@PHYS.TAMU.  Modified Jump Drive design process << T
 520  6397 29-Nov-1993 LTG3878@ZEUS.TA  A New MT Class:  the Hitch-Hiker << Her

------------------------------

Bundle: 520
Archive-Message-Number: 6374
Subject: Starports
From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 93 20:24:00 -0500

  I'm starting to work up maps for an upcoming TNE campaign.  I'm
  expecting a good chunk of the action to occur in the downport, so
  I need to do up a detailed map of the downport.  I've done the
  admin building, including floor plans, but I need to know
  something about downports:  How big should I make ship bays, and
  how many?  Also, any other information that you can provide for
  making convincing downports would be appreciated.

  If it matters, the campaign will take place in the Spinward
  States.
==========================================================================
Jeff Zeitlin                                      jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com
- ---
 ~ QMPro 1.51 ~ Gold medalist, freestyle conclusion-jumping event.

------------------------------

Bundle: 520
Archive-Message-Number: 6375
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Re: Survey
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1993 13:27:02 +0100 (MET)

> I've been curious about something for quite a while. How many people that
> subscribe to the TML, CAT &/or TNE Pocket have access to (and use) Gopher or
> WWW?

  Have access to, but I only use Gopher to visit the library of congress
catalogue and MELVYL:)

>  joe                          University of Missouri - Columbia

- -bertil-
- --
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Bundle: 520
Archive-Message-Number: 6376
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 93 09:40:57 CST
From: Peter H. Brenton <pete@biochem.uchicago.edu>
Subject: novel

Mike Basinger asked about traveller-like novels.  Good idea.

Although the technology was not identical, The novel "Glory Road"
by Melissa Scott had a definite traveller feel.

Also (of course) the Hammer series by David Drake beginning with
"Hammers Slammers" and going on to less memorable titles-perfect
for someone needing inspiration for a mercenary-type campaign.  Don't
look for a complex plot in these though.

There were a pair of novels, one called "Insurrection", which gave a
great picture of a large scale empire ("democracy") tearing itself
apart.  As I recall the fringe worlders were rebelling against the
central-worlders control of the government.  Not a lot of small-party
level action, but great space battles (find out what a "spinal Mount"
missile is...), and one look at politics conducted across large amounts
of space. (I can't remember the other title or the author, sorry).

Asimov's Foundation Trilogy (and then some..) is a bit more cerebral
by comparison, but are great books.

There's my suggestions (opinions provided free of charge!).

- -Pete

"The opinions expressed certainly have nothing whatever to do with
the University of Chicago or the Department of Biochemistry (I just
work there and use their toys)."

Peter Brenton				pete@biochem.uchicago.edu



------------------------------

Bundle: 520
Archive-Message-Number: 6377
Subject: Gobble gobble!
Reply-To: jamesp@sp-eug.com (James T Perkins)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 93 10:52:49 PST
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@sp-eug.com>


Happy Thanksgiving day to my US net.friends.

James

------------------------------

Bundle: 520
Archive-Message-Number: 6378
From: Glenn Myers <gem188@swanson.com>
Subject: Grav vs. Contragrav
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 93 14:27:09 EST


Hi All,

Now that I've had a chance to use BL for a while, I really think it is a great
improvement over MT.  I know I trashed some aspects of it previously, but I've
made it past those constraints.  I'm still hoping FF&S will permit me to fix
things.  Having the benefit of Loren "not Weisman" Wiseman on the TML helped me
perservere until I grasped the new system. It is nice to know what is errata
and what is obscure. In the later department please consider the following:

I have a question concerning grav/contragrav vehicles.  What has really changed
from CT & MT to TNE.  I always thought grav created a force which could be used
for propulsion when it pushed around in a gravity well. The force became less
effective as the gravity became less.  In TNE, the contragrav appears to negate
up to 99% of gravitational forces.  Does this cause any changes in how vehicles
can move.

Is any of what I've assumed true?  Has there been any change at all?  I had the
impression that grav actually imparted some maneuver capability.

Every time I think about this MY BRAIN HURTS.


TTFN

Glenn

- ----------------------------------
| Glenn E. Myers                 |
| gmyers@swanson.com             |
| QA software engineer           |
| Swanson Analysis Systems, Inc. |
| (412) 746-3304 x188            |
- ----------------------------------

------------------------------

Bundle: 520
Archive-Message-Number: 6379
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1993 21:59:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: WADDELL@delphi.com
Subject: Traveller Novels

Re: Traveller Novels

A few years ago Jeffrey Swykhammer (I think that was how his name is
spelled) wrote several SF novels based on his Traveller campaign.
These should still be available if only at a used bookstore.


------------------------------

Bundle: 520
Archive-Message-Number: 6380
From: fok@scf.usc.edu ([Caffine Achiever!])
Subject: grav/contra-grav
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1993 22:08:52 -0800 (PST)

>Bundle: 520
>Archive-Message-Number: 6378
>From: Glenn Myers <gem188@swanson.com>
>Subject: Grav vs. Contragrav
>
>I have a question concerning grav/contragrav vehicles. What has really changed
>from CT & MT to TNE. I always thought grav created a force which could be used
>for propulsion when it pushed around in a gravity well. The force became less
>effective as the gravity became less.  In TNE, the contragrav appears tonegate
>up to 99% of gravitational forces. Does this cause any changes in how vehicles
>can move.
>

The way contra-gravity was explained in T:TNE always amused me.  If 99% of of the gravity acting on the object was negated, wouldn't
the object fly off in a direction that corresponded to the orbital velocity of the planet, orbital velocity of the solar system
about the galaxy, and possibly the velocity of the galaxy through the universe...???  Keep in mind that without
gravity these objects wouldn't be running around in an elipse, or any path other then a straight line.

Anyone out there familiar with universal gravitional attraction?

- -EF

------------------------------

Bundle: 520
Archive-Message-Number: 6381
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1993 08:04:32 +0000 (GMT)
From: Stewart Eyres <spe@jb.man.ac.uk>
Subject: Gopher,WWW,Power


>
> Bundle: 519
> Archive-Message-Number: 6369
> Date:         Mon, 22 Nov 93 16:10:21 CST
> From: Joe Heck <CCJOE@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu>
> Subject:      Survey
>
> I've been curious about something for quite a while. How many people that
> subscribe to the TML, CAT &/or TNE Pocket have access to (and use) Gopher or
> WWW?
>
> Quite a while ago, it was determined (read I can't remember who or how) that
> the most common graphic format that TML'ers, etc can use is GIF. How about
> these new resources?
>
> Please drop me some Email if you use (or can't use) either of these. Thanks
> (this includes all those lurkers hiding out there!)
>
> thanks!
>
>  joe                          University of Missouri - Columbia
>  ccjoe@mizzou1.missouri.edu   (314) 882-5000
>

Never heard of either format, so I probably can't use them, but who knows!

While I'm here, I too was confused by computer power ratings given as
`Mw/day', etc.  Maybe Mwday was intended, i.e. energy equivalent to
drawing 1 Mw of power for a whole day (about 86400 MJ).

Stewart							spe@jb.man.ac.uk


------------------------------

From: A.S.Lilly@bnr.co.uk
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 93 10:54:48 GMT
Subject: Re: Traveller Novels (Mike Bassinger's Query)

Re the following message,

Bundle: 519
Archive-Message-Number: 6372
From: Mike Basinger <dbasinge@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Traveller-Like Novels
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 13:39:15 -0500 (EST)

Would anyone be interested in the novel which I am currently completing?
It's based upon a starship hijack scenario I ran 5 years ago with two groups
of three players each, one lot the hijackers, the other the government.
It was very loosely based upon the hijack scenario from White Dwarf 5-6 years
ago, but set in my own ship, own subsector, etc. At the time the players
enjoyed the game so much that I promised them I'd write it up properly (fool
that I was).

It's getting towards a proper paperback size (not just random jottings!) and
I was going to have a look around in a few months time to see if anyone wanted
to publish it. Would GDW be interested, do you think? I'd like to get
something out of it, because it's taken a *?%$!! lot of effort and time.

If anyone has any advice on how I can become rich selling the rights to this
book, I'd be interested to hear from them.

Thanks

Andy Lilly
Commander, PITS Team (Political Intelligence Team, Scout)
Nothing I say or do here in anyway reflects the views of my very kind,
understanding and generally wonderful employers

------------------------------

Bundle: 520
Archive-Message-Number: 6382
From: Anthony Neal <anthonyn@cs.mun.ca>
Subject: Antimatter and Jump Drives...
Date: 	Thu, 25 Nov 1993 09:21:57 -0330

Hello All:

	A little while ago, someone (whose name I forget, big surprise) put out
an article on Jump Drives which detailed the actual components of the jump
drive and their relative size (and cost) compared to each other. One notable
entry in all this was the High Yield Fusion Plant, which appeared to put out
650 times the output of it's counterpart on the Power Source table in MT
ship design rules. I was wondering how these calculations came about, and
in particular where this all leads with the concept of maybe using Antimatter
to fuel a jump drive. Would it be worth someone's time to consider such an
animal.

	If so, what would a High Yield Antimatter Reactor put out in MW? If we
go by the previous multiplier, we get 325,000 MW output. Per Kl. Whoa!

	So have any Guru's out there got an opinion on this one?

	Thanks,
	Anthony


	P.S. - I have Gopher access, to the dude askin, but I have no idea how it
		   works. Never tried. Hope it helps.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Anthony Neal                |"Lets bring up the cargo manifest. 2300 laser
anthonyn@mercury.cs.mun.ca  | pistols, 1600 laser rifles, 1 ATV, 67 suits of
Memorial University Of      | combat armor and...    What the hell are
Newfoundland                | 'tribbles'?"
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Bundle: 520
Archive-Message-Number: 6383
Date: 25 Nov 93 13:12:11 GMT
From: Arthur Green <ARTHUR@cclana.ucd.ie>
Subject: Re: TML nightly: Msgs 6374-6378 V64#17 (bundle 520)

Glenn sez ...

>Bundle: 520
>Archive-Message-Number: 6378
>From: Glenn Myers <gem188@swanson.com>
>Subject: Grav vs. Contragrav
>Date: Wed, 24 Nov 93 14:27:09 EST
>
>Hi All,
>
>I have a question concerning grav/contragrav vehicles.  What has really changed
>from CT & MT to TNE.  I always thought grav created a force which could be used
>for propulsion when it pushed around in a gravity well. The force became less
>effective as the gravity became less.  In TNE, the contragrav appears to negate
>up to 99% of gravitational forces.  Does this cause any changes in how vehicles
>can move.
>
>Is any of what I've assumed true?  Has there been any change at all?  I had the
>impression that grav actually imparted some maneuver capability.
>
This is as far as I know a big change from MT (where grav vehicles flw
round on thruster plates or some such -- all they needed were power
plants). I think Classic Traveller didn't mention anything about the
technical details -- starships had manoeuvre drives which allowed ships
to move around in normal space and could have been rockets or rock-
slingers or gravitic drives.

I find this kind of retcon a big problem -- an awful lot of background
and existing flavour and maybe history needs to be modified because of
this, although I believe most of this dates from the MT days. I always
regarded the ability to direct gravitic forces as one of the reasons
why we had small fusion power plants: they used a grav generator
running off a "spark plug" to initiate the fusion reaction.

This is one of the reasons why I haven't yet done anything with TNE --
there's an awful lot of background to fill in first (particularly since
I'm not too keen on the post-Virus background anyway). Another problem
is that I got a bunch of blank pages in my copy of TNE -- one of these
days I'm going ot sort out replacements for them (in fact, if I post a
list of the missing pages, could some kind soul send me some
photocopies?). To GDW's credit, this is the first time I've ever seen
any production problems with their stuff.

 -  Arthur Green
    University College Dublin Computing Services
    Email: arthur@cclana.ucd.ie     Tel: +353 1 706 2456
                                    Fax: +353 1 283 7077


------------------------------

Bundle: 520
Archive-Message-Number: 6384
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 93 14:54:42 PST
From: James Kundert <james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>
Subject: Traveller-esque Books

Mike Basinger <dbasinge@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu> says:

>I'm looking for some sci-fi novels that have a Traveller-Like
>background to them (government, techonolgy, etc...)...

To which Peter H. Brenton <pete@biochem.uchicago.edu> replies (in part):

>Although the technology was not identical, The novel "Glory Road"
>by Melissa Scott had a definite traveller feel.
>
  Melissa Scott has an earlier trilogy which, though it uses "magic"
instead of technology, is very Traveller-esque.  These three books
are:
  Five-Twelfths of Heaven
  Silence in Solitude
  The Empress of Earth

  These books had been collected by the SF Book Club as "The Roads of
Heaven", but they no longer offer it, and the paperbacks aren't really
common either, but they are worth the search, in my opinion.


Other books to look for:

  The "Angel's Luck" trilogy by Joe Clifford Faust.  Consists of
"Desperate Measures", "Precious Cargo" and "The Essence of Evil".

  "Antares Dawn" and "Antares Passage" by Michael McCollum.

  "Brightsuit MacBear" and "Taflak Lysandra" by L. Neil Smith.  The
rest of his Confederacy books are fun as well, but not really in the
nature of Traveller.  These are "The Probability Broach", "Nagasaki
Vector", "The Venus Belt", "Tom Paine Maru", "Their Majesties
Bucketeers", and "The Gallatin Divergence".

  The Barrayar books by Lois McMaster Bujold: "Shards of Honor",
"Barrayar", "The Warrior's Apprentice", "The Vor Game", "Ethan of Athos",
"Borders of Infinity", "Brothers in Arms", and the far-prequel "Falling
Free".  I highly recommend the whole set.

  "The Heart of the Comet" by Benford and Brin.

  "The McAndrew Chronicles" by Charles Sheffield.

  "On Basilisk Station" by David Weber.  There may by others in this
series that I am unaware of.

  "Starrigger", "Paradox Alley", and "Red Limit Freeway" by John
DeChancie.

  The Skyrider series by Melisa Michaels: "First Battle", "Last War",
"Pirate Prince", "Skirmish", and "Floater Factor".

  Jefferson Swycaffer's Concordat series, for which I don't have a
comlete list.

  Poul Anderson's Terran Empire (or "Flandry") series and his
Polesotechnic League (or "Falkayn & van Rijn") series, which are
connected by a mutual timeline, and the "Psychotechnic League"
series, which stands alone.

  Larry Niven's Known Space (Ringworld et al.).

  Alan Dean Foster's Humanx Commonwealth (or "Flinx") series.

  Brian Daley's "Requiem for a Ruler of Worlds", "Jinx on a Terran
Inheritance", and "Fall of the White Ship Avatar".  Good stuff.

  E.C.Tubb's Dumarest of Terra serial (LOTS of books).

  Most of Andre Norton's SF, notably the Dane Thorson cycle:
"Sargasso of Space", "Plague Ship", "Voodoo Planet", "Postmarked the
Stars" as well as the stand-alone "Star Guard".


  Whew!  That's enough.

James Kundert <james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>

There was a young lady named Bright,
Whose speed was much faster, much faster than Light.
She departed one day in a relative way,
And returned on the previous Night.
   --Albert & the Heart of Gold

------------------------------

Bundle: 520
Archive-Message-Number: 6385
From: Timothy Little <t_little@postoffice.utas.edu.au>
Subject: COmputer power
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 93 13:05:55 EST

> 400,000 Kw/month = 400 MW/month = 13.33 MW a day

This sounds more like a rate of power consumption change.  `MW'
is a measure of power consumption, so what is `MW per day'?

Do you mean `MW-hours per day'?  Then 13 MW-hr/day would be about
0.5 MW.  No wonder it needs monster cooling systems!  Without cooling,
the temperature would probably rise toward about 500'C until it
died.

Of course, this discussion is assuming that we are concerned with the
`supercomputer' range.  What if you want something smaller?  What sort
of processing power can you get out of a 100W desktop computer at
various TLs?  I would find it quite conceivable to run a starship off
a computer that, in 2 TL or so, would be considered a `pocket' computer.
Based on MegaTraveller, in which TL6 is ~1950, and TL8 is ~1990, this is
certainly the case.  The progression in the starship computer tables seems
*faster* at higher TLs, with a 2-fold increase in `maximum CP input' and
30% increase in `CP multiplier' from TL6 to TL8, but a jump of 2 TLs from
TL12 to TL14 gives a 100-fold increase in `maximum CP input', and more
than 100% increase in CP multiplier.  Thus, if a pocket computer at TL8
is more than a match for the TL6 supercomputer, it would seem that a TL14
pocket computer should exceed the capabilities of a TL12 supercomputer by
an even greater amount.

This is partially borne out by the entry in the Imperial Encyclopedia,
where a TL11 hand computer "provides services of a supercomputer
(equivalent to Model/1 in computing power)".  Now, I would expect it to
be much better than that!  Model/1 is the 1950's supercomputer.  TL11 is
post-2100 projected technology (Meson guns, gravitic structures become
commonplace, Jump-2 drives, and reactionless thrusters).

Nevertheless, the precedent has been set - hand computers of higher TL
*can* serve as lower-TL supercomputers.  In MT, a vehicle needs to cost
more than ~50 MCr before it needs a Model/2.  For smaller vehicles, the
computer can take up a considerable amount of the power, space and cost
of the total.  So, just replace it with a TL11 hand computer, at 1/10000th
the volume, 1/1000th the mass, and 1/900th the cost, with negligible
power consumption.


(MT gripe: Have you noticed that TL12 `solar cells' extract 60 times more
power from sunlight than is actually present?  Even TL6 cells extract 3
times more.  But that's cancelled out by the much-too-small surface areas
available for large ships.)

- --
Tim Little

------------------------------

Bundle: 520
Archive-Message-Number: 6386
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1993 12:48:45 +1000
From: pihlab@cbr.hhcs.gov.au
Subject: Just a NIT


                  I N T E R O F F I C E   M E M O R A N D U M

                                        Date Sent:1993-Nov-26 01:47pm
                                        From:     Bruce Pihlamae
                                                  PIHLAMAE BRUCE
                                        Dept:     Information Services
                                        Tel No:   (06) 289-7056

TO:  Remote Addressee                     ( _traveller@engrg.uwo.ca )


Subject: Just a NIT


   Is anyone else having problems reading the postings from
   fok@scf.usc.edu  (and a few other posters)?

   I realise its probably a deficiency with my mail reader but it works fine
   for 99.999% of my other TML mail.  Is fok using an editor that doesn't put
   in a hard carriage return - line feed as it wraps lines?

   Long sentences/paragraphs seem to be a single line disappearing
   off to the right of my screen and unless I extract the message to my
   favourite editor and cut the line up I can't read the message.

   I would like to read these messages, after all your trying to say
   something that's worth reading, but I find myself unwilling to take the
   time and trouble to do the extraction and edit, so the posting is
   simply ignored.

   To those with an editor like fok's, if you want me and anyone else who
   is having this problem to read your postings could you please try and
   hit that ENTER/RETURN key a bit more often.

   If anyone else is reading their TML from within a VAX/VMS ALLIN1 editor
   and has found a way to read these long lines would you contact me with
   your words of wisdom.

   Is there any way of massaging soft returns at the TML distributor before
   they get posted?

   Thanks.

   Bruce      pihlab@cbr.hhcs.gov.au



------------------------------

Bundle: 520
Archive-Message-Number: 6387
From: David Rodger <drodger@access.digex.net>
Subject: Players in D.C./Maryland Area
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1993 10:40:46 -0500 (EST)

Hi -

This is a call to fellow Travellers in the D.C./Maryland/VA area; I've
been a follower of this list for several months, but since I don't
currently play, I've had little to contribute.  If there are any players
in the area that are interested in getting together, I'd love to
participate.  I'm willing to ref, but would prefer to play a couple of
sessions first.

E-mail responses are preferred (so as not to clutter the list.)

Thanks!
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
David Rodger
drodger@access.digex.net

------------------------------

Bundle: 520
Archive-Message-Number: 6388
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 93 11:32:06 EST
From: Dan Corrin <dan@engrg.uwo.ca>
Subject: Animal encounters program


- ----- Begin Included Message -----


Hello All:

	It's me again. Finally after a long time (and considerable neglect on my
part) the MT Animal Encounter Table Generator has made it to the TML. It
currently resides in the /pub/traveller/software under the name "animal.exe".

	Be not confused! This file is actually a self-extracting zip-archive!
Just run it in a directory where you feel confident that the excess files will
not be a burden and you will have all the C source code, an executable version
and my rather well crafted .doc file. Okay, my rather hastily slapped together
 .doc file.

	Note to all turbo C guru's... The executable has been compiled to be
compatible with as many PC's as possible, using the 8088/8086 instruction
set. If you should wish to take advantage of your system's resources, you
may re-compile at your liesure the file anigen.c . It should take care of the
rest.

	Anyway, thanks to James, Dan, Loren and everyone who helped me out on
this by answering my little questions along the way. Hope it's useful!

	Anthony

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Anthony Neal                |"Lets bring up the cargo manifest. 2300 laser
anthonyn@mercury.cs.mun.ca  | pistols, 1600 laser rifles, 1 ATV, 67 suits of
Memorial University Of      | combat armor and...    What the hell are
Newfoundland                | 'tribbles'?"
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------



- ----- End Included Message -----


------------------------------

Bundle: 520
Archive-Message-Number: 6389
From: mgood@MIT.EDU
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 93 11:42:21 -0500
Subject: Traveller Novels

Become The Hunted by Jeffery Swycather

oops that's Swycaffer.  I can bring it in if anybody's really curious.
I didn't think that this book was very good.

I agree that the Barryar books are excellent, with the only
really big non-Traveller difference being that they have Star Gates.

Matt

------------------------------

Bundle: 520
Archive-Message-Number: 6390
From: burnchrome@aol.com
Reply-To: <burnchrome@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 93 13:35:23 EST
Subject: Re: catchin up with GDW

Yo,

I am interested in a "timeline" of traveller game revisions, and or releases.
I used to referee and run the game about 11 years ago, and have recentley
become interested in getting back into it. Where can I find information on
all of the new versions of the game, and where can I get my hands on them? I
am in the greater Boston area and would like to know if there are any groups
in my area running campaigns.

Gracias....

Paul Murphy
Burnchrome@aol.com

------------------------------

Bundle: 520
Archive-Message-Number: 6391
From: Glenn Myers <gem188@swanson.com>
Subject: More contragrav musings
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 93 16:06:03 EST


Hi All,

I'd like to clarify my post concerning contragrav/grav.  If contragrav negates
up to 99% of gravitational forces it would have to do so as a vector
cancellation. You could cancel the gravity of the mainworld but the sun and any
moons would still affect you. You could lift a vessel into orbit using the
rotational velocity of the mainworld. (I believe this was the intention of using
it on starships.)

This brings up some interesting problems. The "High Guard" situation is gone
forever. Attention - Major Retcon !! There is no gravity well to hamper you
during refueling. Just hit the contragrav and boost out at your maximum
G-rating. Worry free wilderness refueling. In my opinion, this situation used
to have the exact flavor of the traveller experience that I tried to achieve.
What are they trying to do, drive the corsairs out of business?

On the other hand, what better way to deploy carried craft or missles than to
enter a low altitude orbit with lots of orbital velocity, deploy everything,
and turn on the contragrav to fling everything into place. No wasted G-turns,
everything is saved for the coming conflict. With the versatility of missles
in TNE, I'd like to try that trick.

It also seems that there should be some kind of energy balance going on. If a
ship is in orbit, it has a certain amount of kinetic and potential energy.
By changing altitude, energy is tranferred. Contragrav seems to allow you to
change the reference point and get energy from nowhere. Again this all depends
on the interpretation of the technology, I may be completely of base.

Still, it's something to think about.


TTFN

Glenn


- ----------------------------------
| Glenn E. Myers                 |
| gmyers@swanson.com             |
| QA software engineer           |
| Swanson Analysis Systems, Inc. |
| (412) 746-3304 x188            |
- ----------------------------------


------------------------------

Bundle: 520
Archive-Message-Number: 6392
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1993 12:51:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: AMNUSS@delphi.com
Subject: books

 The Jerrerson P. Swycaffer books are:
   Not In Our Stars
   Become The Hunted
   The Universal Prey
   The Praesidium of Archive
   Tales of the Concordat 1: The Empire's Legacy
   TOTC 2: Voyage of the Planetslayer
   TOTC 3: Revolt and Rebirth

 I've used GOPHER and FTP some.  Haven't tried any of the others yet.

 Alan

------------------------------

Bundle: 520
Archive-Message-Number: 6393
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1993 17:04:15 MST
From: Steve Gibbons <steve@nereid.sunquest.com>
Reply-To: steve@sunquest.com
Subject: Fiction

This may be slightly off-topic, but I'll try to keep it within the realm of the
TML's charter and previous threads:

I just finished re-reading Alan Dean Foster's _Cyber_Way_ (at my usual reading
rate of 1PPM.)

One of the most interesting aspects of the novel, as it applies to Traveller is
WRT how primitive societies (TL1-TL8+) deal with left-over artifacts of TL25+.
I think that the basic plot devices could be easily adapted to a Traveller
campaign involving various "Secrets of the Ancients", and not even trigger too
many RetCon Alerts... :)

Picture a pre-virus universe.  Add an red-zoned system with a pre-jummp
tech-level, and evidence of vistation within the last couple of millenia from
an extremely advanced society.  Posit a technological regression from TL25 way
back to TL0 or TL1, and then a re-building over the last few thousand years,
with a strong oral tradition in the mean-time (unwittingly) describing access
to the artifact technology (or parts of it.)

Adventures could range in scope from the initial re-discovery of the ancient
ways to spy-type adventures on a balkanized planet, to interference from
the monitoring scouts that were acting on behalf of the Imperium, to something
akin to a missionary mission (in a post-virus galaxy) as the newly-found
technology aids the spread of the "primitive" culture's values across the
galaxy, to interaction with the ancients themselves, to...

Food for thought...

- --
Steve@Sunquest.COM

------------------------------

Bundle: 520
Archive-Message-Number: 6394
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1993 20:54:35 -0600 (CST)
From: RJR96326@vax1.utulsa.edu
Subject: Aslan

Back to the Aslan thread brifely. . .
did anyone metion that the name of the Christ-figure Lion in "Lion Witch
& Wardrobe" was named Aslan? That was the first connection I made when
I started playing Traveller. . .

J Roberson

------------------------------

Bundle: 520
Archive-Message-Number: 6395
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 93 10:40:25 -0500
From: mju@ftp.com (Mark Urbin)
Subject: 15mm rifles and armor types


James M. Kelleher writes:
> .600         = 15mm aproximately ( by my calculator close enough for
>government work... :-) )
> .50 is 1/2 inch so what the person is desiging is an elephant gun.
>called a 600 nitro express I've seen one but have never had the chance
>to shoot one...
>so it shouldn't be too out of line to design one.
>see ya
>jim

   Ah...the doublebarreled H&H .600 Nitro Express Elephant gun.  The
`Nitro' because it used the new (at the time) smokeless powder.  GDW has
this written up in the Cadallics & Dinosaurs book and the Infantry Weapons
of the World book.  It's not what was being discussed though.
  The 15mm in question is a semi-auto snipers rifle.  The orginal intent
was for use against armor.  It uses modern cartridges with nice pointy
tipped bullets for better penatration.
  The rounds used in the .600 (15mm) Nitro Express were round nosed.
Made for shooting unarmored elephants.  The big, round slugs provided
more `knockdown'.  In game terms the .600 Nitro Express rounds would have
a lower penatration value than the 15mm semiauto sniper rifle in question.
  The .600 Nitro Express is still a big nasty gun that hurts a lot over
long ranges.  Available at fairly low tech levels (late 4, early 5).
Even with the lower penatration, the `blunt trauma' effect on this this
thing would be nasty (memory drags up a damage value of 7).  So even a
non-penatrating hit would do enough damage to knock most folks down.
One of the `features' of GDW House Rules is even folks in Battle Dress
don't like to get shot by big guns.
  Speaking of which, shouldn't powered battle armor absorb a bit of blunt
trauma damage? Does it? I don't remember seeing that anywhere?  Hmm...
Since I'm on the topic of armor anyway...I know that GDW threw out the
idea of reflec armor, but what about ablative?  I know it's big and bulky
and goes away quick...However I see that a method of keeping PCs from
lugging around a lot of other stuff and a steady drain on their cash flow.
Ablative should provide little to no protection from slug throwers or
plasma/fusion weapons.


- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Urbin -- ftp Software, Inc.  North Andover, MA  These opinions are mine.
Ense Petit Placidam Sub Libertate Quietem -- By the sword we seek peace,
but peace only under liberty - Motto of the Massachusetts Commonweath
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Bundle: 520
Archive-Message-Number: 6396
Date:    Mon, 29 Nov 1993 9:55:39 CST
From: GOSS@PHYS.TAMU.EDU
Subject: Modified Jump Drive design process

This is a reposting of my previously posted article.
I created this prior to the release of TNE, and I have not yet had time to
update it.  It is designed to be 100% compatible with MegaTraveller, and in
addition allows one to go beyond MT in detail of design.  It is based partially
on information from Book 5:  High Guard, the MT Referee's Manual, and the
DGP Starship Operations Manual.  The first portion is designed to be added to
your MT Referee's Manual.  The second portion gives several examples of the
usefulness of the supplemental rules:  first, the standard A2 Far Trader from
the MT Imperial Encyclopaedia; second, a modified A2, that has slightly more
cargo space, at the exense of a longer jump time.  All comments are welcome.

				Lewis Taylor Goss, 11-29-93

                               CUT ON DOTTED LINES

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3.b._Power_Requirements_________________________________________________________
20% of the the total power requirement is used to 'warm up' the Lanthanum Hull
Grid.  The remaining 80% is used to actually enter jump space.

 To 'warm up' Lanthanum Hull Grid:  0.65 MW X Jump # / kl of total ship volume
 To_enter_jump_space:_____________+_2.60_MW_X_Jump_#_/_kl_of_total_ship_volume
 Total power requirement:         = 3.25 MW X Jump # / kl of total ship volume

3.c._Jump_Governor______________________________________________________________
A dedicated computer system and accompaying connections.  The governor finely
regulates the transfer of energy from the High Yield Fusion Power Plant to the
Jump Energy Sinks, and thence to the Lanthanum Hull Grid.

                           Percent of    Weight     Price
            Component______Hull Volume__(mton/kl)__(Cr/kl)
            Jump Governor       1%          2       75000

3.d._Lanthanum_Hull_Grid________________________________________________________
A grid of Lanthanum wires implanted in the outer layer of the ship's hull,
spaced at about 1 meter intervals.  For design purposes, the grid is assumed to
occupy no volume and have no weight.  Installation of the Lanthanum grid does
not alter the hull armor rating.  Cost is Cr1500 per kilolitre of total ship
volume.

                                           Price
                     Component____________(Cr/kl)
                     Lanthanum Hull Grid    1500

3.e._Jump_Energy_Sinks__________________________________________________________
These accumulate the energy produced by the High-Yield Fusion Power Plant, to
later release it rapidly into the Lanthanum Hull Grid during jump.  The sinks
hold 650 MW per kilolitre of energy sink.  It is also possible to install energy
sinks for use with a Black Globe.  They cost Cr300000 per kilolitre, but are
otherwise identical to Jump Energy Sinks.

                                   Weight     Price
               Component__________(mton/kl)__(Cr/kl)
               Jump Energy Sinks      1       245000

The volume of energy sinks required can be computed as follows:

      V = P / 650

V = volume of energy sinks in kilolitres
P = power requirement of the jump drive in MW.

3.f._High-Yield_Fusion_Power_Plants____________________________________________
Fusion power plants that have been tuned for maximum energy production, at the
expense of inefficient fuel use.  Power Out, Weight, Price, and Fuel is per
kilolitre of power plant.

                        High-Yield Fusion Power Plants

                 Power       Weight    Price    Minimum     Fuel
           TL__Out(MW/hr)__(mton/kl)__(Cr/kl)__Volume(kl)__(kl/hr)
            9    1300          4       200000    6.750       10
           10    1300          4       200000    2.000       10
           11    1300          4       200000    1.000       10
           12    1300          4       200000    0.250       10
           13    1950          3       200000    0.150       15
           14    1950          3       200000    0.100       15
           15    3900          2       200000    0.090       30
           16    4600          1       200000    0.080       35

3.g._Time_to_charge_Energy_Sinks_______________________________________________
The process of jumping is essentially instantaneous.  Therefore, the primary
limitation on how rapidly one may jump is the time required to charge up the
energy sinks.  Should this time exceed two to three hours, the energy sinks may
suffer severe damage, initiating a process which concludes in the destruction of
the ship.

The time to charge energy sinks may be computed as follows:

  T = P X 60 / O

T = time to charge energy sinks in minutes.
P = power requirement on the jump drive in MW.
O = total power plant output in MW/hr.

3.h._Jump_Fuel__________________________________________________________________
All of the fuel consumed by the jump drive is consumed while charging the energy
sinks.  Once the vessel has entered jump, no more fuel is consumed by the jump
drive.

The amount of fuel consumed while charging the energy sinks may be computed as
folows:

  F = V X R X T / 60

F = volume of Jump Fuel in kilolitres.
V = volume of high-yield power plant in kilolitres.
R = jump fuel consumed per kilolitre of power plant.
T = time to charge energy sinks in minutes.

                                    65b
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            CUT ALONG DOTTED LINES

e.g. the TL 15 Far Trader on p.81 of the Imperial Encyclopedia is capable of
Jump-2.  Its jump drive can be described in detail as:

Power Required to perform a Jump-2:  17550 MW
Jump Governor:                  27 kl  54 mton  Cr2025000
Lanthanum Hull Grid:                            Cr4050000
Jump Energy Sinks:              27 kl  27 mton  Cr6615000
High-Yield Fusion Power Plant:  27 kl  27 mton  Cr5400000  105300MW/hr  TL 15
Time to charge energy sinks:  10 min
Jump Fuel Required:  135 kl

                                FAR TRADER
CraftID:  Far Trader, Type A2, TL 15, MCr41.07
   Hull:  180/450, Disp=200, Config=3SL, Armor=40G, Unloaded=1126 tons,
          Loaded=1996 tons, Lanthanum Hull Grid.
  Power:  3/6, NormFusion=738 MW, Duration=30/90,
          2/4, HiYldFusion=105,300 MW, Duration=10 min.
   Loco:  4/8, Manuever=1, 3/6, Jump=2, NOE=190kph, Cruise=750kph,
          Top=1000kph, Agility=1.
  Commp:  Radio=System.
Sensors:  PassiveEMS=Interstellar, ActiveEMS=FarOrbit, ActObjScan=Rout,
          ActObjPin=Rout, PasEngScan=Rout.
Off/Def:  Hardpoints=2, DefDM=+3.
Control:  Computer=1bisX3, Panel=Holodynamic LinkX233, Special=HeadsUpX2,
          Environ=BasicIs, ExtendIs, GravPlates, IntertialComp.
  Accom:  Crew=3 (Bridge=1, Engineer=1, Steward/Medical=1), Staterooms=10,
          SubCraft=Air/Raft.
  Other:  Cargo=823.5kliters, Fuel=671kliters, PurificationPlant,
          ObjSize=Average, EMLevel=Faint.

except for the minor changes in the weight of the ship, and the division of
damage points between the high-yield fusion power plant and the rest of the
jump drive, much the same as the stats in the Imperial Encyclopedia.

In order to determine the time to charge energy sinks for standard designs,
the following TL chart will be useful:

                       Time to Charge Energy Sinks
                             TL__Time(min)
                              9    30.0
                             10    30.0
                             11    30.0
                             12    30.0
                             13    20.0
                             14    20.0
                             15    20.0
                             16     8.5

e.g. An alternate version of the Far Trader.
Power Requirement:  17,550 MW
Jump Governor:                    27 kl  54 mton  Cr2025000
Lanthanum Hull Grid:                              Cr4050000
Jump Energy Sinks:                27 kl  27 mton  Cr6615000
High-Yield Fusion Power Plants:  4.5 kl  4.5 mton  Cr900000  17550 MW/hr  TL 15
Jump Fuel Required:              135 kl
Time to charge Energy Sinks:  60 min.

                           FAR TRADER VARIANT
  CraftID:  Far Trader, Type A2A, TL 15, MCr37.47.
     Hull:  180/450, Disp=200, Config=3SL, Armor=40G, Unloaded=1104tons,
            Loaded=1971tons, Lanthanum Hull Grid.
    Power:  3/6, NormFusion=738 MW, Duration=30/90,
            0/1, HiYldFusion=17550MW, Duration=60 min.
     Loco:  4/8, Manuever=1, 3/6, Jump=2, NOE=190kph, Cruise=750kph,
            Top=1000kph, Agility=1.
    Commo:  Radio=System.
  Sensors:  PassiveEMS=Interstellar, ActiveEMS=FarOrbit, ActObjScan=Rout,
            ActObjPin=Rout, PasEngScan=Rout.
  Off/Def:  Hardpoints=2, DefDM=+3.
  Control:  Computer=1bisX3, Panel=HolodynamicLinkX233, Special=HeadsUpX2,
            Environ=BasicIs, Extend=Is, GravPlates, InterialComp.
    Accom:  Crew=3 (Bridge=1, Engineer=1, Stewad/Medical=1), Staterooms=10,
            SubCraft=Air/Raft.
    Other:  Cargo=846kliters, Fuel=671kliters, PurificationPlant, Scoops,
            ObjSize=Average, EMLevel=Faint.

This variant version of the Far Trader has a smaller High-Yield Fusion Power
Plant, and a longer time to charge energy sinks.  Also, its Power HYFPP has
reduced damaged/destroyed hit points.  The cargo volume is larger, but by only
2.8%.

Whew!

"Now, its time for the penguin on top of your television set to explode."	

------------------------------

Bundle: 520
Archive-Message-Number: 6397
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1993 10:06:45 -0600 (CST)
From: LTG3878@ZEUS.TAMU.EDU
Subject: A New MT Class:  the Hitch-Hiker

Here is a new character class for MegaTraveller.  I apologize for being out of
date, but I haven't had time to update this class to TNE yet.

_______________________________________________________________________
Character_Type:__Hitch-Hiker__|  Rank and Service Skills:  Hitch-1     |
    Prior Service Table   |___|________________________________________|
                          |__Enlistment_Restrictions:__Pre-Stellar+____|
      Enlist:  9+         |           Acquired Skills Table            |
    DM +1 if:  StrPrt B+  |                                            |
    DM +2 if:  TL 5-      |    Personal Skills     Service Skills      |
                          |    1.  Physical        1.  Space           |
       Draft:  --         |    2.  +1 Dex          2.  Zero-G Env      |
                          |    3.  +1 End          3.  Vacc Suit       |
    Survival:  7+         |    4.  Vice            4.  Hitch           |
    DM +2 if:  Int 9+     |    5.  Hand Cbt        5.  Streetwise      |
                          |    6.  Carousing       6.  Liaison         |
    Position:  --         |                                            |
    DM +1 if:  --         |    Adv. Education      Adv. Education      |
                          |    1.  Vehicle         1.  Medical         |
   Promotion:  --         |    2.  Steward         2.  Inborn          |
    DM +1 if:  --         |    3.  Survival        3.  Persuasion      |
                          |    4.  Vice            4.  Technical       |
Special Duty:  6+         |    5.  Gun Cbt         5.  Admin           |
                          |    6.  Forgery         6.  Hitch           |
____Reenlist:__5+_________|________________________Only for Edu 8+_____|
                          |           Mustering Out Tables             |
      Table of Ranks      |                                            |
                          |    Cash Table          Benefits Table      |
  1.         --           |    1.      --          1.  Towel           |
  2.         --           |    2.  Cr   1,000      2.  Low Psg         |
  3.         --           |    3.  Cr  10,000      3.  Weapon          |
  4.         --           |    4.  Cr  50,000      4.  Guide           |
  5.         --           |    5.  Cr  50,000      5.  Thumb           |
__6._________--___________|____6.__Cr_100,000______6.__Travellers'_____|
Skill Descriptions & Restrictions:                                     |
Hitch - the individual is skilled in finding a ship with an available  |
space, and persuading people to give them such a space.                |
Towel - any Hitch-Hiker receiving Hand Cbt has the option of taking    |
the skill Towel, which has the following              Pen  Block  Dmg  |
stats, when used by a skilled person.     Towel(Dry)   1     1     2   |
                                          Towel(Wet)   2     1     3   |
Note:  Hitch-Hikers' cannot gain more than level 3 in any skill.       |
Re-roll_on_the_tables_as_is_necessary_to_prevent_this._________________|
Benefit Descriptions:                                                  |
Towel - a terry-cloth beach towel, about 0.75m X 1.5m.                 |
Guide - a copy of the Hitch-Hikers' Guide to the Imperium.             |
Thumb_-_Hitch-Hiker_lingo_for_a_Far Orbit_range_radio._________________|

------------------------------
