			    TRAVELLER Digest 132

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Price list update?	by Alvin Plummer <plummera@sheridanc.on.ca>
  2) my comments about "max ship speed"	by erich@bush.cs.tamu.edu (Erich Schneider)
  3) Re: my comments about "max ship speed"	by merrick@RT66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
  4) Laser Blinding	by A.S.Lilly@bnr.co.uk (Andy Lilly)
  5) Re: TRAVELLER digest 131	by lakes!raven@galois.nscf.org (Knight Hawk)
  6) Re: TRAVELLER digest 131	by HANS-CHRISTIAN PRYTZ <92HANSC@kihelektro.kih.no>
  7) Re: Laser Penetration	by Liam_McCauley@qsp.co.uk
  8) Re: TRAVELLER digest 131	by CyHiggin@aol.com

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Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 16:45:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Alvin Plummer <plummera@sheridanc.on.ca>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Price list update?
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91.941214164411.16479A-100000@hubble.sheridanc.on.ca>


Mr. Wiseman, do you plan to update your price's for the new year?
If so, don't forget the one at mpgn.com!

Alvin Plummer
(Going boldly where... ?)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Dec 94 16:27:21 CST
From: erich@bush.cs.tamu.edu (Erich Schneider)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: my comments about "max ship speed"
Message-ID: <9412142227.AA29685@ bush.cs.tamu.edu>

My comment about "maximum ship speed" (aside from lightspeed
limitations) being a meaningless concept was based around the fact
that one always measures velocity relative to some observer. Observers
who see each other moving in different ways will measure another
object's "speed" differently among themselves. 

The switch to talking about "maximum delta-v" makes things a bit
clearer, or "maximum velocity relative to a given object attainable by
a ship with full fuel load which starts at zero relative velocity to
that object". When worrying about debris damage, one might measure
"maximum relative velocity to a debris cloud attainable without
scouring the hull clean of all features" - but this has little to do
with a ship's engines and fuel load, because the same thing will
happen if that dust cloud is moving towards _you_ (not that you can
tell the difference).

Isn't it implied somewhere that the jump drive only changes position
and not velocity vector? I believe it's stated that one wants to
arrange one's exit from jumpspace so as to have one's velocity assist
one's approach to one's destination the most (it's embarassing to come
out of jump and be moving _away_ from the planet rather than toward
it). This makes talk of "maximum speed" even more problematic (as
opposed to the situation where jumping gives you the destination
star's velocity vector, say). 
-- 
Erich Schneider  erich@bush.cs.tamu.edu  http://tamsun.tamu.edu/~ers0925

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 15:55:26 -0700 (MST)
From: merrick@RT66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: my comments about "max ship speed"
Message-ID: <9412142255.AA11525@RT66.com>

Erich Schneider says:

> My comment about "maximum ship speed" (aside from lightspeed
> limitations) being a meaningless concept was based around the fact
> that one always measures velocity relative to some observer. Observers
> who see each other moving in different ways will measure another
> object's "speed" differently among themselves. 

True.

> The switch to talking about "maximum delta-v" makes things a bit
> clearer, or "maximum velocity relative to a given object attainable by
> a ship with full fuel load which starts at zero relative velocity to
> that object". When worrying about debris damage, one might measure
> "maximum relative velocity to a debris cloud attainable without
> scouring the hull clean of all features" - but this has little to do
> with a ship's engines and fuel load, because the same thing will
> happen if that dust cloud is moving towards _you_ (not that you can
> tell the difference).

True enough, but for the most part ships will be operating near planets (they
have little choice about that now fuel wise).  Conservation of angular momentum
will mean that for the most part the debris will be moving in the same kind of
orbits that the ships are (roughly).  I wasn't even considering the inherent
velocity of matter in the system since in 1 or 2 turns of thrust any traveller
ship is probably hyperbolic to the system and the local movement of stuff won't 
be as important.

But, as you point out, unless the armor is somehow better, even "standing still"
is dangerous.

> Isn't it implied somewhere that the jump drive only changes position
> and not velocity vector? I believe it's stated that one wants to
> arrange one's exit from jumpspace so as to have one's velocity assist
> one's approach to one's destination the most (it's embarassing to come
> out of jump and be moving _away_ from the planet rather than toward
> it). This makes talk of "maximum speed" even more problematic (as
> opposed to the situation where jumping gives you the destination
> star's velocity vector, say). 

True enough.  Makes the need for some correction even more important.  If you
use the idea in your traveller game it can make for some interesting
situations.

-Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Dec 1994 09:58:08 +0000
From: A.S.Lilly@bnr.co.uk (Andy Lilly)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Laser Blinding
Message-ID: <199412151001.FAA17740@Mithril.MPGN.COM>

>From Rob Prior in 131:
>The best example of this is blinding with lasers:
>this doesn't appear in the rules, not because it's impossible (all too
>likely), but because it doesn't make interesting role-playing.  (Flash one
>laser and all enemy looking in the wrong direction are blind.  Even filters
>can't defend against multi-frequency lasers.)

I read recently that Bucky Balls (Buckminster Fullerine carbon footballs)
'glued' to glass or the like have the property that as more light is shone
at them, they absorb more, so the amount going through doesn't increase -
currently people are thinking of using this for goggles for... (wait for
it...) staff using high power lasers, etc.
I have always envisaged that any decent TL armour with a face mask will
include either something 'chemical' like the bucky-ball effect or something
'electronic' where light intensity detectors vary the transparency of the
visor to cope with sudden flashes, etc. These systems would be vital in high
tech military operations where soldiers may be subjected to nuclear flash,
fusion/plasma gun flash, flash (e.g. magnesium, phosphorus) grenades and
blinding by lasers (either intentional or unintentional - see the hazard
warning signs around the laser systems used on US aircraft for fooling
missile IR homing systems).
I have no idea what frequencies of electromagnetic radiation the bucky-ball
goggles would protect against but Traveller does have 5000+ years to create
better alternatives.
So... just cos FF&S, etc. don't mention it, doesn't mean you can't use it...
But, as Rob pointed out, always explain any assumptions underlying YOUR
universe so the rest of us know what's going on!

Oh, and on approximations, has anyone actually worked out the sphere volumes
on which the FF&S hull volumes are calculated? Everything in the rules HAS
to be approximated in order not to make things too complicated. I always
allow a fudge factor of + or - 10% or so on ANY factor (whether it be length
of a weapon or size of a starship drive) to reflect the variety which one
finds in 'real' life.

SPACECRAFT ARMOUR
'Futuristic' designs (Bussard ramjet things, etc.) usually have some mention
of projecting some form of deflecting screen ahead of the ship to deflect
particles ahead of the ship; alternatively a heavily armoured front hull.
Neither protects you against particles travelling faster than the ship
coming in from the side or rear. Some form of weak projected gravitational
field or electrostatic field should deflect the majority of incoming debris
leaving just the interesting chunks which I use for random space encounters
and for when the pilot rolls a double-1 (showing my age here, using CT/MT
rules!).

Just my Cr0.01/Cr500,000 (depending upon whether your inflation rate is as
an employee of the UK Gas Board, or as its chairman)

Cmdr Lilly, PITS (Political Intelligence Team, Scout)
PITS Team motto: "We are never outgunned."
* Nothing I say or do in any way reflects the views of my very kind
  and generous employers who have no interest in outgunning anyone. *

P.S. Apologies for the UK-specific joke.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Dec 94 04:25:29 EST
From: lakes!raven@galois.nscf.org (Knight Hawk)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 131
Message-ID: <71BDXc1w165w@lakes.trenton.sc.us>

On the Issue of way's to prevent micro meteors how about using a system 
of repulsors to deflect them away from the hull.

Also has anyone considered using repulsor/tractor manipulators for 
Manuever drives?  I am still working on my B&B ships and need to figure 
out a manuever drive to use since it is primarily Internally powered 
using MAA Powerplants (thus making the HEPlaR unusable).
I don't expect to many PC's to be able to afford these at over 1000 
MCredits roughly.

raven@lakes.trenton.sc.us

-- 
raven@lakes.trenton.sc.us
Lakes Access

------------------------------

Date: 15 Dec 94 13:15:40 MET-1
From: HANS-CHRISTIAN PRYTZ <92HANSC@kihelektro.kih.no>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 131
Message-ID: <MAILQUEUE-101.941215131540.416@kihelektro.kih.no>

>
> Also, do any BL/BR players out there chuck this ridiculous "12
> movement directions, no exceptions" thing and just use the Mayday
> system? I know I certainly would. (For those not in the know, in
> Mayday one used three counters per ship to record position last turn,
> position this turn, and position next turn. Acceleration was then
> simply a matter of moving one's "position next turn" within the
> limits; every turn, all ships would move their last turn markers to
> the current pos'n, the current pos'n to the next turn pos'n, and then
> extrapolate linearly the new next turn pos'n.)
>

Does anyone have the rules convertions neccesary to use this??

In the recent velocity thread:

> >
> > "Max velocity"? What is this "max velocity"? When I turn the engines
> > on, I fall toward them, but when I turn them off, I'm just floating
> > there at zero velocity. Now, "maximum velocity relative to <thing>" I
>
> Huh?  The absolute maximum velocity (plus small changes if you use a
> a gravity slingshot (though at traveller ship velocities this won't add much))
> *is* the number of g-turns of fuel a ship has.  Period.  If you have 112
> g-turns, the ships max velocity is 112 hexes/turn (6.72 Mkm/hr).  If it
> would like to come to a stop at some point, the max velocity it can reach
is half that.  I take it when you say "i fall towards them" you talk about
the
> passenger *in* the craft.  Your relative velocity to the hull is zero
(unless
> you push off to go down the hall), but you would still have some velocity
> (whatever the ship has).
I think what he was trying to say is that velocity must be related to
something. That is you have to have a coordinate system to give the
numbers in. For example, a plane flying relates it's speed either to
the surrounding air, or to the ground below (with radar).
For a satellite in earth orbit, it would be most natural to relate
it's velocity to the earth. You would relate the earth's velocity to
the sun, and the sun's vel. to perhaps the center of the milky way.

The thing he was picking on is that you said max. velocity. Without
any reference point.

---
____________________________________
|Hans-Christian Prytz              |
|e-mail <92hansc@kihelektro.kih.no>|
------------------------------------

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Date: Thu, 15 Dec 1994 17:24:34 +0000
From: Liam_McCauley@qsp.co.uk
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Laser Penetration
Message-ID: <ef07e6c0@pc173.qsp.co.uk>

     Laser Penetration
     -----------------
     
     I posted a suggestion to this list a couple of weeks ago that lasers 
     should be allowed to have non-fractional, non-nil penetration ratings 
     (e.g. PR of 3).
     
     Given the messages that had been appearing about dis-satisfaction with 
     the effects of TNE SA lasers (c.f. MT or CT), I kind of expected some 
     comments / ridicule.  The only person to say anything on this thread 
     has been Tariq Rashid (any chance of you mailing the laser you 
     designed with the PR of 6?), since then.
     
     I am quite keen to receive some more feedback, since I don't fancy 
     designing the McCauley Arms range of Lasers if my thoughts about IPRs 
     < 1 are flawed.
     
     Has anyone at GDW noticed my original message (tml digest 115)?  Is 
     the rule in FF&S about IPR >= 1 a mistake, or does it model some real 
     effect (it seems to imply that powerful lasers can penetrate really 
     well - the fractional PR - but as the energy is reduced, there is a 
     point at which penetration drops drastically - where IPR is about 1)?  
     A brief comment would be most appreciated.
     
     
     Striker II
     ----------
     Does anyone know when Striker II will hit British shores?
     Are there any TNE figures other than starships available?
     
     
     Cheers,
     Liam McCauley
     
     
     Liam_McCauley@qsp.co.uk

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Dec 1994 13:01:19 -0500
From: CyHiggin@aol.com
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 131
Message-ID: <941215130117_6846791@aol.com>

>There were several design decisions made with FFS (and BL).  >Some were
'merely' for playability.  The best example of this is >blinding with lasers:
this doesn't appear in the rules, not because >it's impossible (all too
likely), but because it doesn't make >interesting role-playing.  (Flash one
laser and all enemy looking in >the wrong direction are blind.  Even filters
can't defend against >multi-frequency lasers.)

..and then there was something I read in the paper or somewhere
not too long ago about someone developing an optical filter that 
could darken in response to bright light in a matter of nano-seconds.  They
were looking at using it for optical switching circuits, but someone pointed
out that it could also be used for goggles to protect you from accidental
laser blindings and other sudden flashes.  Being blinded by a laser becomes
a non-problem above TL 8...

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End of TRAVELLER Digest 132
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