Subj: Traveller-digest V1999 #1329
Date: 11/9/99 10:42:09 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, November 9 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 1329
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Dreaming of fractal maps
Re: character sheets and ships papers
RE: Recovering disabled grav vehicles
Re: Coke for Kiri (OT)
re: Zhodani and Psionics
Re: Coke for Kiri (OT)
re: Zhodani Gov't
re: Zhodani Gov't
Re: Coke for Kiri (OT)
Re: Keith supplements mailed...
Regional Trolling (Still OT, Was: Re: Coke for Kiri (OT))
Re: Zhodani Gov't
Re: Keith supplements mailed...
re: Zhodani Gov't
re: Zhodani and Psionics
Re: Dreaming of fractal maps
Other Traveller mailing lists?
Re: Coke for Kiri [OT]
Re: Justice and Criminal vs Civil
re: Zhodani Gov't
re: Zhodani Gov't
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 09:09:54 -0600
From: Shimmergloom
Subject: Re: Dreaming of fractal maps
Cool. More fantastic stuff that I can't live without from Profant.
Michel Vaillancourt wrote:
> At 02:44 AM 11/9/99 -0500, you wrote:
> >Fellow Travellers,
> >
> >I have a dream... I have a dream of a program, a very nifty and useful
> >program that I would write -- if only I had any programming skills. Sadly,
> >I have none, so I must ask for the assistance of the programmers on the
> >list...
> >
> >On my Mac, I have an After Dark screensaver module called "Planetmaker" --
> >a very nifty fractal planet map generator. I had plans to use it to
> >quickly generate realistic world maps for MTU.
> >
> [snip]
>
> Hi. Glenn!
> I know of one product that will do this... it is currently in Beta.
> It is by ProFantasy Inc, ("http://www.profantasy.com") and is called
> _Fractal Terrains_. They are going out of thier way to add UWP support in
> it (mostly at my nagging). Its a nice piece of kit that generates fully
> developed worlds that can be projected onto several different layouts;
> Mercator and much more.
> Unfortunately, TTBOMK there are no Mac plans... however, most of
> thier stuff is pretty well behaved under Virtual PC.
>
> --Michel
>
> -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
> Michel R. Vaillancourt misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
> ICQ # 31172292
> -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
> NET-City Communications....
> Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"
> -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
> ***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***
> -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
- --
- -------------------------
"How much XP do we get if we join the bandits?"
shimmer@mhtc.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 09:14:54 -0600
From: Shimmergloom
Subject: Re: character sheets and ships papers
> William "Elfman" writes:
> >Hello all,
> >
> >I am new to this list so I will be brief and to the point.
> >I am looking for some electron based traveller character sheets
> >and ships papers. Anyone have any of these or at least knows
> >where to find them? These would be for the First version (Black
> >Book Set).
what format? I have a character sheet that I created for traveller in
lotus Wordpro. I think it's still around. Granted it does not support
any single Traveller edition but tries to be more of a generic sheet. I
think I still have it around here.
- -------------------------
"How much XP do we get if we join the bandits?"
shimmer@mhtc.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 10:18:58 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: RE: Recovering disabled grav vehicles
The Roc writes:
>I can see a heavy-lift Grav-Recovery vehicle (similar to a large
>tilt-tray) land in front of a disabled grav-tank, the recovery
>crew lifting it on hydraulic lifts, fitting wheeled jigs front
>and back (or the tray itself may have rollers?), then winching it
>on board. Once secured, the recovery crew mount the recovery
>vehicle and diddly bop off to rear area facilities to repair the
>disabled vehicle?
I could see this at about TL 8, but at slightly higher tech
I would expect the recovery vehicle to just pick up the
damaged AFV with cables or grappling gear of some sort. At
very high tech, gravetics would be used to lift the vehicle.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 09:10:20 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Coke for Kiri (OT)
On Mon, 8 Nov 1999, Michel Vaillancourt wrote:
> At 02:20 PM 11/8/99 -0700, you wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Hey, Kiri! Instead of learning Hebrew, learn Canadian. Canuck Coke
> >> is always made with sugar... any time I trip south of the 49th, my friends
> >> always ask me to throw a few cases in the trunk to bring down to them...
> >
> >Eh?
> >
> >Bruce Johnson
>
> Close, but the Texan accent mauled it. Its more "Eh?" than the way
> you said it. Just practice some more.
>
>
WHO you callin' _texan_ ???!!!
:-P
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
^^^^^^^
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 11:09:56 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: re: Zhodani and Psionics
Robert O'Connor wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
Heck, no ; Skinnerian operant conditioning is predicated on a 'black
box' model of the brain. Most RW cognitive-behavioural therapies have
their origins in operant conditioning.
(My apologies to any psychologists or psychiatrists on the list who
were taught at schools with alternate views).
>>>>>>>>>>
Combine a practical, no-nonsense approach to science with such
theories...and the Zhodani seem nothing of not practical.
"When we zot a prole's brain like *this*, he stops behaving like *that*.
We will therefore zot like *this* all proles that behave like *that*."
Granted, the Zho's have been at this a long time. The zot in question
may be very fine tuned, very sophisticated, and very effective - and yet
show no necessry understanding of the multiple processes being affected.
I put forth the possibility of Heisenberg effects in psionic therapy
techniques - that by the act of investigating, you change what is
investigated. A proficient Zho may be able to root around deep inside
a brain, but the mental processes she will be looking at will not
necessarily be the same processes that would be going on if she
were not poking around in there.
Then there may be adepts with lighter "touches" or who have developed
less invasive techniques - kind of like the rain forest biologist who studies
while suspended from a far-off crane, never stepping on what he's
investigating. If these techniques take longer to learn, are harder to do,
and have less reliable results, they may only be practiced by scientists
who have some strange ideas about Proles as some kind of equals to
Citizens. Of course, some Nobles need mental help as well...
To whit: just as taming or changing a rain forest does not necessarily
show an understanding of it, taming or changing a human mind - especially
if something simple like "peacable prole" was the end result desired -
does not necessarily show knowledge of said mind, nor even interest
in workings of said mind.
I'm considering the example from the original Zho aliens supplement,
where all the changes to the prole in question involved acceptance and
passivity. Those seem much less complex responses than any kind
of dynamic personality aspects that would make a person dangerous,
disruptive, or even interesting. Take the complex, make it simple and
easy to manage.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 12:25:54 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: Re: Coke for Kiri (OT)
At 09:10 AM 11/9/1999 -0700, you wrote:
>> >Eh?
>> >
>> >Bruce Johnson
>>
>> Close, but the Texan accent mauled it. Its more "Eh?" than the way
>> you said it. Just practice some more.
>
>WHO you callin' _texan_ ???!!!
>
>:-P
>
>Bruce Johnson
>University of Arizona
> ^^^^^^^
Wow! I haven't seen a reaction like that since the last time I
suggested that Alberta was an Ontario-wannabe..... =)
--Michel
(who really ought not to troll like that....)
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
Michel R. Vaillancourt misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
ICQ # 31172292
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
NET-City Communications....
Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 11:34:34 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: re: Zhodani Gov't
GypsyComet wrote:
>>>>>>>>
Er. The Proles get no vote at all. Just as with the Imperium, the common
man gets some control, sometimes, over his immediate form of government,
but the governance of the Consulate as a whole is determined top-to-bottom
by the Nobility.
>>>>>>>>
The Proles get a "vote" by outnumbering the Nobles by several orders
of magnitude. They are induced by various means to "vote" not to
overthrow the government, the mechanism of this vote is that they
do not overthrow the government.
All governments operate by consent of the governed. This consent may
be compelled by force, fear, or fraud, or gained through trust and good
stewardship, but the consent is still required. In the Zhodani society,
consent is in some ways impelled, by turning dissenters into supporters
whether the dissenter wants to or not.
Ever read John Christopher's "Tripods" series? Aliens come to Earth,
take over, and keep people in line by putting these mesh "caps" on
people, that keep their brains from thinking bad thoughts. The Zho's
make me think of that.
GypsyComet again:
>>>>>>>>>>
Human psyche being what it is, the Tavrchedl' will prefer adjustment
techniques that will stand up under pressure, whether you view the
Zhodani as benevolent or malevolent. If you have to re-adjust the same
poor b----rd every few months because his job is stressful enough to
shred the "life is simple" conditioning you stamped on his brain in three
minutes, then you are very probably going to work on the twenty minute
"good for a decade" technique just to keep the workload down.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
Except that jobs with that kind of stress levels probably aren't performed
by simple proles. The high-stress jobs are done by the hosts of
Intendants, out there trying to prove themselves in Zho society, or by
the Nobles. These people have entirely different worldviews than the
simple ones allowed to the proles. and will have very different coping
mechanisms.
Gypsy again:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
As suggested by the original Zhodani Module, this will often involve
installing techniques and thought channels that help the person "deal"
more readily.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
"More readily" as in "in the way the Zho oligarchy wants him to deal
with it". Of course, that's what our societies intend with social
conditioning, the benevolent Zho idea is that the Zho's are supposed
to have the information needed to be better at it.
The channels in the example all involved acceptance, passivity -
simple responses, pretty much based on "THAT IS NOT A PROBLEM
TO YOU. IGNORE IT. BE HAPPY."
Walt Smith
Carefully making sure his psionic shield helmet is in proper working
order.....
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 11:41:45 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: re: Zhodani Gov't
Leonard Erikson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
Anything that requires "mass conditioning" *can't* be simple or
efficient. The mere fact that you have to do it to *everyone* makes it
inefficient. And given the facts above, it'll lots of monitoring and
adjustment.
>>>>>>>>>>
It depends how powerful and effective the Zot has become over time.
Yes, it may be very bad for the prole in the long run, he may even
stress himself to death trying to warp his brain around the commands
bolted onto his brain when he misbehaved. The prole will blow up by
dying...not by causing trouble. If keeping the proles from causing
trouble was the only intent, this is sufficient...if the Zho's have more
in mind, their Zot may get better.
The Zot may even obliterate those troublesome drives all together,
leaving some very peaceable, very boring sheep in human bodies
as subjects, and none of the dangerous venting you pointed out
in your post. You'll also never get a prole who does anything courageous,
or creative, or even very interesting, but that's OK - that's what Nobles
and Intendents are for.
Walt Smith
Studying for a degree in Imperial Anti-Zho Propaganda
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 09:01:47 -0800
From: "Wayne Ewart"
Subject: Re: Coke for Kiri (OT)
> At 09:10 AM 11/9/1999 -0700, you wrote:
> >> >Eh?
> >> >
> >> >Bruce Johnson
> >>
> >> Close, but the Texan accent mauled it. Its more "Eh?" than the
way
> >> you said it. Just practice some more.
> >
> >WHO you callin' _texan_ ???!!!
> >
> >:-P
> >
> >Bruce Johnson
> >University of Arizona
> > ^^^^^^^
>
> Wow! I haven't seen a reaction like that since the last time I
> suggested that Alberta was an Ontario-wannabe..... =)
>
> --Michel
> (who really ought not to troll like that....)
>
Michel, you should be glad you didn't say that to me. We all know Alberta
could never sink that low.
Wayne
wewart@home.com
Give a man fire and he is warm for the night.
Set a man on fire and he is warm all his life.
- - Terry Pratchett
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 10:18:41 -0800
From: Jerry Paul Sanders
Subject: Re: Keith supplements mailed...
Knew I'd forgotten something. Sent that last update at 2 in the
morning...never a good Idea :)
http://www.primenet.com/~timmon/supplements.html
With the following page counts:
Letter of Marque - 89
Scam - 68
Faldor - 77
Starport/Planetfall - 47
Arctic Environment - 37
Imperial Calendar - 32
Reavers' Deep Sector Sourcebook - 63
Volentine Gambit - 30
Cost is $100 (includes surface postage) and includes the last three free if
ordered by Dec. 8th
L8r,
Paul
At 07:07 AM 11/9/99 -0800, you wrote:
>> Jerry Paul Sanders writes:
>>
>> Ok...made it!!!! I was able to get a few of the Keith Supplements
>> into the
>> mail today before the post-office closed at noon. Worked the
>> remainer of
>> the day and have several more ready to send out on monday.
>
>You mentioned some sets were left and you would update your website.
>However, you didn't tell us (those that don't have it saved somewhere)
>what that address is. And the address is....
>
>Thanks
>
>
>Terry
>
>=====
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 13:13:46 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: Regional Trolling (Still OT, Was: Re: Coke for Kiri (OT))
At 09:01 AM 11/9/1999 -0800, you wrote:
>> Wow! I haven't seen a reaction like that since the last time I
>> suggested that Alberta was an Ontario-wannabe..... =)
>>
>> --Michel
>> (who really ought not to troll like that....)
>>
>Michel, you should be glad you didn't say that to me. We all know Alberta
>could never sink that low.
>
>Wayne
>wewart@home.com
>
Actually Wayne, I believe it was... I believe your reaction was to
suggest I ought to be concerned with my propeller dodging skills.... =)
--Michel
(who really can't come up with a good ObTrav at this point, save for
the usual introspectives about Vargr/ Aslan/ Marches regionalism....)
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
Michel R. Vaillancourt misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
ICQ # 31172292
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
NET-City Communications....
Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 09:15:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: Zhodani Gov't
Walter Smith writes:
> The Proles get a "vote" by outnumbering the Nobles by several orders
> of magnitude. They are induced by various means to "vote" not to
> overthrow the government, the mechanism of this vote is that they
> do not overthrow the government.
Actually, that's not true. The nobles are some 5% of the Zhodani population
> Except that jobs with that kind of stress levels probably aren't performed
> by simple proles. The high-stress jobs are done by the hosts of
> Intendants, out there trying to prove themselves in Zho society, or by
> the Nobles. These people have entirely different worldviews than the
> simple ones allowed to the proles. and will have very different coping
> mechanisms.
There are plenty of high-stress jobs which are fairly meaningless and won't necessarily be done by Intendants or Nobles. For example, firefighting.
> As suggested by the original Zhodani Module, this will often involve
> installing techniques and thought channels that help the person "deal"
> more readily.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> "More readily" as in "in the way the Zho oligarchy wants him to deal
> with it". Of course, that's what our societies intend with social
> conditioning, the benevolent Zho idea is that the Zho's are supposed
> to have the information needed to be better at it.
The evidence is that they're right.
>
> The channels in the example all involved acceptance, passivity -
> simple responses, pretty much based on "THAT IS NOT A PROBLEM
> TO YOU. IGNORE IT. BE HAPPY."
Well, other solutions aren't impossible -- for example, convincing some loner who'd be likely to go postal to get out, get a hobby, talk to people, etc...
Not that I don't think the Zhodani government is appalling ;)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 10:34:45 -0800
From: Jerry Paul Sanders
Subject: Re: Keith supplements mailed...
At 03:21 PM 11/9/99 +0100, you wrote:
>Hmmm... I just hope you spelled my name right ;-).
Oh man :( Nope, I didn't - Thanks for pointing out my error. I've fixed it
now, but the first 8 sets mailed will have it wrong. Sorry about that.
Cordially,
Paul
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 12:33:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Kenji Schwarz
Subject: re: Zhodani Gov't
On Tue, 9 Nov 1999 GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:
> Er. The Proles get no vote at all. Just as with the Imperium, the common man
> gets some control, sometimes, over his immediate form of government, but the
> governance of the Consulate as a whole is determined top-to-bottom by the
> Nobility. Despite the historical precedents, most modern Zhodani nobility got
> that way due to being psionic.
Actually, by my reading of the character generation rules and source
material, most of the modern nobility got that way by inheritance.
Though all the existing canon doesn't explain why, given fairly easy
upward mobility, there are still proles left after a few thousand years.
> At the risk of ruining the strip, I recommend reading a few weeks of Dilbert
> as if it were a window into a Zhodani business. Keep the following questions
> in mind:
Nah, them guys are Vilani. I'm planning on asking permission to translate
a few strips into Vilani, eventually.
Kenji
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 12:37:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Kenji Schwarz
Subject: re: Zhodani and Psionics
On Tue, 9 Nov 1999, Walter Smith wrote:
> I put forth the possibility of Heisenberg effects in psionic therapy
> techniques - that by the act of investigating, you change what is
> investigated. A proficient Zho may be able to root around deep inside
> a brain, but the mental processes she will be looking at will not
> necessarily be the same processes that would be going on if she
> were not poking around in there.
Interesting... I like this idea; makes Trav psionics less of a pushbutton
gadget technology.
> I'm considering the example from the original Zho aliens supplement,
> where all the changes to the prole in question involved acceptance and
> passivity. Those seem much less complex responses than any kind
Although I've learned recently to reject the illusory value of
"interpretation" as practiced by whiny liberal pseudo-intellectuals, I
think we may have a case of it here. I'd read those examples as
describing how a prole was 'zotted' to become more dynamic and active in
society, and begin engaging in life more fully.
Kenji
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 18:54:01 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm"
Subject: Re: Dreaming of fractal maps
Shimmergloom wrote:
> Cool. More fantastic stuff that I can't live without from Profant.
How good/fast/easy-to-learn are ProFantasy's products anyway?
I have been thinking about buying them for a long time, but every time I
haven't, because I haven't really had a neutral opinion on the programs.
What I am looking for is a program that can help me design maps quite
quickly, but still with a nice-looking end result. I can live with
spending a few (or more) hours to learn to use the program, as long as
it's quick and easy to use once learned. I want to design maps for all
kinds of settings, from Fantasy to SF.
Will CC2 and the associated products meet my needs?
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 19:19:55 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm"
Subject: Other Traveller mailing lists?
I know that at one point, there were other Traveller mailing lists. Are
any of those still active, or have they all been joined into this large
list?
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 10:22:04 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude
Subject: Re: Coke for Kiri [OT]
dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au wrote:
> >Hey, Kiri! Instead of learning Hebrew, learn Canadian. Canuck Coke
> >is always made with sugar... any time I trip south of the 49th, my friends
> >always ask me to throw a few cases in the trunk to bring down to them...
>
>
>
> I thought canadian wasn't a language, it was a way of life. It's what all
> Americans become when they pass their IQ test. :-)
Naw it's not a IQ test it is the genetic defect not knowing what customer
service is..
- --
Evyn...
Get six jolly cowboys to carry my coffin
Get six pretty maidens to bear up my pall
Bunches of roses all over my coffin
Roses to deaden the clods as they fall
Laredo
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 18:02:03 +0000
From: Martin Hardgrave
Subject: Re: Justice and Criminal vs Civil
In message <0.8fc13322.2555bfe0@aol.com>, Sethkimmel@aol.com writes
>2) The party gets caught up in a viscous race war
>on a balkanized world.
Well they do say blood is thicker than water.
- --
Martin Hardgrave
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 11:38:11 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: re: Zhodani Gov't
>
> GypsyComet again:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> Human psyche being what it is, the Tavrchedl' will prefer adjustment
> techniques that will stand up under pressure, whether you view the
> Zhodani as benevolent or malevolent. If you have to re-adjust the same
> poor b----rd every few months because his job is stressful enough to
> shred the "life is simple" conditioning you stamped on his brain in three
> minutes, then you are very probably going to work on the twenty minute
> "good for a decade" technique just to keep the workload down.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> Except that jobs with that kind of stress levels probably aren't performed
> by simple proles. The high-stress jobs are done by the hosts of
> Intendants, out there trying to prove themselves in Zho society, or by
> the Nobles. These people have entirely different worldviews than the
> simple ones allowed to the proles. and will have very different coping
> mechanisms.
Have any of you _read_ the various Zhodani supplements?
What would be done with the poor b____d is that he'd be moved into a job
more suited to his talents/limits. They're not bending peopel to fit the
job, but the jobs to fit the people.
There are people who are naturally more or less able to deal with stress;
they will be steered into the jobs that generate the stress. I can't think
of a job that someone, somewhere doesn't find enjoyable. In fact most
people going postal are due to the unresolved stresses of a life that
isn't suited for them. The job just tends to be the last straw.
The Zhodani mind control, other than described in Impy agitprop, isn't
oriented so much to coerce behavior, as to find the best fit between prole
and life. Think of it as extremely effective, cradle-to-grave
psychotherapy, without all the California-style psychobabble bs.
Where is it stated or implied that proles have a limited world view? They
are limited in the positions they can attain, but by the time they're
adults, they _know_ it's because of their inherent limitations, not that
they're being 'denied' a chance. They _like_ what they're doing and how
they live.
Bruce "just call me eeenye" Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 11:38:11 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: re: Zhodani Gov't
>
> GypsyComet again:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> Human psyche being what it is, the Tavrchedl' will prefer adjustment
> techniques that will stand up under pressure, whether you view the
> Zhodani as benevolent or malevolent. If you have to re-adjust the same
> poor b----rd every few months because his job is stressful enough to
> shred the "life is simple" conditioning you stamped on his brain in three
> minutes, then you are very probably going to work on the twenty minute
> "good for a decade" technique just to keep the workload down.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> Except that jobs with that kind of stress levels probably aren't performed
> by simple proles. The high-stress jobs are done by the hosts of
> Intendants, out there trying to prove themselves in Zho society, or by
> the Nobles. These people have entirely different worldviews than the
> simple ones allowed to the proles. and will have very different coping
> mechanisms.
Have any of you _read_ the various Zhodani supplements?
What would be done with the poor b____d is that he'd be moved into a job
more suited to his talents/limits. They're not bending peopel to fit the
job, but the jobs to fit the people.
There are people who are naturally more or less able to deal with stress;
they will be steered into the jobs that generate the stress. I can't think
of a job that someone, somewhere doesn't find enjoyable. In fact most
people going postal are due to the unresolved stresses of a life that
isn't suited for them. The job just tends to be the last straw.
The Zhodani mind control, other than described in Impy agitprop, isn't
oriented so much to coerce behavior, as to find the best fit between prole
and life. Think of it as extremely effective, cradle-to-grave
psychotherapy, without all the California-style psychobabble bs.
Where is it stated or implied that proles have a limited world view? They
are limited in the positions they can attain, but by the time they're
adults, they _know_ it's because of their inherent limitations, not that
they're being 'denied' a chance. They _like_ what they're doing and how
they live.
Bruce "just call me eeenye" Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1329
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Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #1329
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