Traveller-digest           Thursday, 18 July 1996       Volume 1996 : Number 267

(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

         1. Re: Culture and Realism
         2. Re: Realism
         3. Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #266
         4. Re: Pop culture
         5. Re: Culture and Realism 
         6. Re: Culture and Realism
         7. The Traveller Adventure For Sale... (Long)
         8. Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #266
         9. Pity Me!
        10. Re: Assorted
        11. Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #266
        12. Canada infiltrates Hollywood...
        13. Re: Canada infiltrates Hollywood...
        14. Correcting Loren
        15. Alien Races
        16. Re: 2300AD
        17. Re: The Wonder years
        18. Re: Realism
        19. Re: Pop culture
        20. mailing list

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: cyhiggin@usa.pipeline.com (Dragoness Eclectic)
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 13:26:15 GMT
Subject: Re: Culture and Realism

On Jul 17, 1996 07:06:33, 'derek stanley <dstanley@direct.ca>' wrote: 
 
>> Suspect this one's already happened a time or two... 
>> Look at the Vilani.  Who are the Vilani?  They're the Japanese, no one  
>comes right out an says it but they're our western stereotypical  
>Japanese. 
 
I see them as more Chinese-stereotype than Japanese.  The  
Aslan are the Japanese-stereotype... 
 
                   --me 
- ----------------------------------------------------------------- 
Alt.gothic.CR Master-at-Arms ---------- cyhiggin@usa.pipeline.com

------------------------------

From: cyhiggin@usa.pipeline.com (Dragoness Eclectic)
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 13:37:00 GMT
Subject: Re: Realism

On Jul 18, 1996 07:10:27, '"Gerald S. Williams" <gsw@aloft.att.com>' wrote:

 
>On Thursday, July 18, eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch) wrote: 
>> Frankly an Orion style craft wouldn't be something I would want to see 
>> used except as a last resort anyway. 
> 
>But it's our best hope if a bunch of elephantine alien invaders 
>begin dropping rocks on us. :-) 
 
<grin> I read that book! 
"Atomjack" sounded like a really neat job title, too! 
Hmmm... Atomjack 3rd Class aboard the Archangel-class battleship 
USS Michael? 
 
                        --Cynthia 
 
- -- 
"O Grave, where is thy victory? Death, where is thy sting?" 
                                                --Alexander Pope 
- ----------------------------------------------------------------- 
Alt.gothic.CR Master-at-Arms ---------- cyhiggin@usa.pipeline.com

------------------------------

From: Les Howie <lhowie@novalis.ca>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 10:56:05 -0300
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #266

At 08:00 AM 7/18/96 -0400, Stu wrote:

>
>Ever try to put a Canadian dime into a coke machine???
>
Curiously, all of our vending machines are happy to take US dimes...

I expect Year 0 vending machines (TL11-12) will analyse the coin, do a
weapons scan on the purchaser, and offer him the lowest value on the coin
that he is liable to accept without actually destroying the vending unit...
Les Howie
Senior Software Developer
NovaLIS Technologies
Halifax NS
lhowie@novalis.ca


------------------------------

From: derek stanley <dstanley@direct.ca>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 06:56:03 -0700
Subject: Re: Pop culture

Stuart L. Dollar wrote:
> 
> On 17 Jul 96 at 19:28, Eris Reddoch spewed:
> 
> > Well OK, I'll admit to "Cheers"..even "The Beverly Hillbillies"..but
> > not "Saved by the Bell!"
> >
> 
> I'm afraid that we must take responsibility for "Saved by the Bell."
> Then again, you can blame the Canadians for all those funny coins we
> get for change down here in Arizona... :-)
> 
> Ever try to put a Canadian dime into a coke machine???

 
Ever tried to use a Canadain quarter in a phone?  Now thats a pisser, 
when you have to exchange your money to use a phone.

Derek Stanley



------------------------------

From: derek stanley <dstanley@direct.ca>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 06:57:41 -0700
Subject: Re: Culture and Realism 

Stuart L. Dollar wrote:
> 
> On 17 Jul 96 at 7:06, derek stanley spewed:
> 
> > > Suspect this one's already happened a time or two...
> > > Look at the Vilani.  Who are the Vilani?  They're the Japanese, no one
> > comes right out an says it but they're our western stereotypical
> > Japanese.
> 
> Derek,
> 
> I'm not saying your wrong, but I don't think you could accuse the
> Japanese of the fear of technology and change so typical of the
> Vilani...
> 
> I can see the resemblances in cultural conservatism, but there is
> cultural conservatism to a greater or lesser extent in all cultures,
> including Western civilization...

Don't forget the whole mega-corp, loyallty to the corporation thing.

Derek Stanley


------------------------------

From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 07:19:27 -0800
Subject: Re: Culture and Realism

On 18 Jul 96 at 13:26, Dragoness Eclectic spewed:

> On Jul 17, 1996 07:06:33, 'derek stanley <dstanley@direct.ca>' wrote: 

> I see them as more Chinese-stereotype than Japanese.  The  
> Aslan are the Japanese-stereotype... 

This is definitely the way I saw it as well...

 
"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent" -Isaac Asimov, from "Foundation"
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This tagline brought to you by Big Ed's Taco Emporium, conveniently located next to
Bob's Pet Shop.
Stuart L. Dollar           sdollar@goodnet.com    

------------------------------

From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 08:02:06 -0800
Subject: The Traveller Adventure For Sale... (Long)

Over the weekend, I was at Hexacon the local gaming convention, in 
these parts...  Unfortunately, I wasn't able to attend until Sunday, 
and the Traveller related gaming was on Saturday... :-(
The good news is that I was able to pick up a couple of Traveller 
related items for a reasonable price...  :-)

1 of them I picked up I already had.  I bought it with the intention 
of giving 1 of you fine folks an opportunity to add it to your 
collection for what should be a fairly reasonable price...  :-)
The item in question is the CT campaign, The Traveller Adventure, by 
Marc Miller...

The book itself is in good to very good condition.  The only visible 
wear is a bit of fraying along the edges of the spine...  The binding however is 
intact, and I suspect that somebody used it a few times to run the 
campaign, then resold it...

My intention is to put it up for auction.  I am not here to rape 
people though, so I intend to conduct the auction in the following 
manner:

1) I will be accepting 1 bid and 1 bid only from each person!  Make 
your first bid the most you would be willing to pay for this 
wonderful campaign...

2) Minimum bid shall be $10 US (which is what I paid for it...)  Bids 
shall be taken in $1 intervals only.  If you don't want to pay $10, don't 
bother sending e-mail to me...

3) Bids will not include shipping.  US customers can expect $3 for 
priority mail, maybe slightly less if book rate or something of that nature.  
International customers, I'd need to find out at a later time.

4) Payment may be by money order, or check (US customers only).  
Money orders I'll ship out as soon as I receive them, checks will 
wait 2 weeks to clear...

5) All bids should be sent to me at: 
sdollar@goodnet.com

Please include the word 'auction' in the subject line...so that my 
mail filter will send it to the right place...  

For the sake of bandwidth, absolutely NO bids will be accepted 
that are sent to the mailing list...

6) I reserve the right to change or modify the rules to this auction 
at any time...(but it would be very unlikely for me to do so)

7) Bids shall be accepted until a week from Saturday, July 27, 1996...

8) In the unlikely event of a tie, I will e-mail the parties 
involved

If you have questions about the book, or about the auction, e-mail me 
at: 
sdollar@goodnet.com

Stu
"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent" -Isaac Asimov, from "Foundation"
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This tagline brought to you by Big Ed's Taco Emporium, conveniently located next to
Bob's Pet Shop.
Stuart L. Dollar           sdollar@goodnet.com    

------------------------------

From: ross@odyssee.net (Ross Coburn)
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 11:02:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #266

Someone completely out of their mind posted something along these lines...
[grin]

>You could start with music, for one.  Virtually every major musical
>movement of the 20th century saw its origin in the US...  Ragtime,
>Jazz, Blues, Rock, etc...

Believe it or not, Rock and Roll is considered to have started in Ontario,
Canada.  I don't remember who the artist was, but some Canadian is credited
with cutting the first Rock and Roll song.  Lame when you can't remember
who it was to support your argument, but Canadian musical contributions
(such as they are) mustn't be ignored; else we'll send hordes of ravening
beavers at you.

>Ironically enough, it says something about Baywatch that Canadian
>ad execs are commenting on it... not sure what it says about
>Canadians...they must be watching it if they find this funny...

It says something about Baywatch when P.Anderson/Lee/whatever, the epitome
of the American bouncy blonde, happens to also be Canadian (from
Vancouver).  So, in effect, we are watching an American show starring our
own exported cheesecake.  That's really weird.

BTW, Keanu Reeves (the male equivalent of ms Lee?) is also Canadian, as are
many others in Hollywood (more than you'd think!), but I think that it's a
profession requirement that you hide this fact if you want to get big in
the U.S.

No, none of this means anything or has anything to do with Traveller, but
it beats working by a long shot.


Ross Coburn
ross@odyssee.net



------------------------------

From: ross@odyssee.net (Ross Coburn)
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 11:06:14 -0500
Subject: Pity Me!

By the Way, one Roderick Darroch Elliott, rabid larval lawyer and advocate
of .1c ortillery, monofilament wire and hydroplaning aircraft carriers is
one of my players.

I really don't know why I'm starting a campaign.  Remember the "caddy, my
shotgun" stream?  I immediately thought of him.

Please respond to this plea for help, preferably by sending me endless
ideas on how to run his sorry butt up the nearest flagpole!  (Welcome back,
Darroch.)



------------------------------

From: Ethan Henry <ehenry@mag1.magmacom.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 12:08:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Assorted

Dave Neilsen was quoted saying:
> > (and Traveller fans are certainly among the most demanding)

True enough. You don't see a bazillion posts on reg.games.frp.ad&d
saying "Black Sun is logically inconsistent and a crappy setting!"
Imagine people criticizing "Vampire: the Gathering" - 

Player: Hey, that's not the way Vampires suck blood at all! They
use an elaborate enzyme reaction with parasitic microbes that
help filter potential disease threats, combined with a powerful
sleep-inducing phereomone released from sweat glands around the
neck... I have several journal articles detailing the chemical
process involved in the enzymes breaking down heloglobin while
preventing coagulation...

GM: huh?

Too many people treat Traveller as some sort of dogmatic religion,
not as the game that it is. Well, parts of it anyways. (though I will
be the first to admit that contradicting previously written material 
isn't a good thing to do.)

Loren Wiseman wrote:
> >
> >I'll bet that the Zhodani don't have any problems with insider trading.
> 
> FWIW --
> _My_ Zhodani (the ones Bill Keith and I wrote about lo these 15-20
> years ago in JTAS) would consider using psi talents for personal profit
> to be a form of theft. if the idea occured to them at all.
> 
> > What I want to know is who they patterned the K'kree after???  ;-)
> 
> Nobody, that I recall. Bill Keith and I dreamed them up, but I can't
> recall a coherent influence (other than the theories of Konrad
> Lorenz).

Wow. The demise of GDW may be the best thing to happen to
TML - now Loren can answer all our questions about the evolution
and development of Traveller from an inside viewpoint. Cool.
Not that I think GDW going bust was good, but you've got to admit,
Loren answers questions a lot more now...

So, what I want to know is, were the Alien modules developed in the order
they were released in? The Vargr existed in modules well before their
Alien module cam out, right? Were most of the races detailed in JTAS
before they got bumped up to "full module" status? Not that this is important,
just curious...

And as to the Trav. Aliens resembling other Earth cultures, I think 
it's true to an extent, but the authors seem to have gone out of their
way to be too indirect about it. There are considerable examples of influences
from Niven's 'Known Space' Aliens (right down to the line in 'Hivers' 
that says 'The Hivers are not the Puppetters!" Aslan, Solomani, Hivers
and the Ancients all have fairly visible influences from the Kzinti,
Niven's future Earth, the Puppeteers, the Outsiders and the Pak
Protectors (at least I think...).

Ethan

------------------------------

From: Larry Hadley <lhadley@knet.knet.flemingc.on.ca>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 12:33:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #266

On Thu, 18 Jul 1996, Ross Coburn wrote:
> Someone completely out of their mind posted something along these lines...
> [grin]
> 
> >You could start with music, for one.  Virtually every major musical
> >movement of the 20th century saw its origin in the US...  Ragtime,
> >Jazz, Blues, Rock, etc...
> 
> Believe it or not, Rock and Roll is considered to have started in Ontario,
> Canada.  I don't remember who the artist was, but some Canadian is credited
> with cutting the first Rock and Roll song.  Lame when you can't remember
> who it was to support your argument, but Canadian musical contributions
> (such as they are) mustn't be ignored; else we'll send hordes of ravening
> beavers at you.

   Dammit, figures his name would drop from my mind just as i hit the "r"
key. ;)  He's famous for "Cinnamon Girl". My parents lived across from him
and his parents when I was born.

- -- DLH "Warhammer"                           lhadley@knet.flemingc.on.ca
   Traveller stuff for sale/trade.
   http://www.knet.flemingc.on.ca/~lhadley/Profile.html

"...I do my job the best way I know. I'll keep on doing that. If somebody
gets killed, OK. Nobody lives forever, and I don't have any friends on the
other end of the muzzle"
  - Danny Pritchard



------------------------------

From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 09:51:58 -0800
Subject: Canada infiltrates Hollywood...

On 18 Jul 96 at 11:02, Ross Coburn spewed:

> It says something about Baywatch when P.Anderson/Lee/whatever, the epitome
> of the American bouncy blonde, happens to also be Canadian (from
> Vancouver).  So, in effect, we are watching an American show starring our
> own exported cheesecake.  That's really weird.

I was ROFL when I heard this one...

> BTW, Keanu Reeves (the male equivalent of ms Lee?) is also Canadian, as are
> many others in Hollywood (more than you'd think!), but I think that it's a
> profession requirement that you hide this fact if you want to get big in
> the U.S.

Michael J. Fox, and Harry Dean Anderson are Canadians as well...  The 
late John Candy, and most of the cast of what used to be the cast of SCTV...  
Kids in the Hall

You're right...  It don't have a lot to do with Traveller...

Stu 
"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent" -Isaac Asimov, from "Foundation"
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This tagline brought to you by Big Ed's Taco Emporium, conveniently located next to
Bob's Pet Shop.
Stuart L. Dollar           sdollar@goodnet.com    

------------------------------

From: Tom Ellis <tellis@telerama.lm.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 13:47:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Canada infiltrates Hollywood...

Let's not forget William Shatner...

_______________________________________________________
Tom Ellis
tellis@telerama.lm.com
http://www.lm.com/~tellis/

"No! Do, or do not.  There is not try." Yoda
_______________________________________________________ 


------------------------------

From: Steve Charlton/Avalon Software Inc <Steve_Charlton@khan.Avalon.COM>
Date: 18 Jul 96 10:21:42 MS
Subject: Correcting Loren

Loren (gdw.support@genie.com) said
>
>>  Loren ("I know what was left in the warehouse when we shut down") Wiseman
>
>Speaking of the warehouse, whatever happened to whatever stock was left?
>
>Frank and I loaded it onto trucks. The vast majority of these trucks
>were headed to various distributors in other states (presumably for
>resale...distributors are funny that way). Some of them went to the local
>paper salvage company. No TNE products (no Twilight products, no DC
>products) went into the shredder.

So really what you mean to say was 
 Loren ("_MY BACK_ knows what was left in the warehouse when we shut down") 
Wiseman

------------------------------

From: anwfh@orion.alaska.edu (William F. Hostman)
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 10:14:08 -0800
Subject: Alien Races

>> I find that foriegn Earth cultures are more often thinly disguised
>> and used in fantasy than in scifi, though.  Either that, or the
>> scifi authors disguise the source of their cultures better.
>
>I think you're probably correct with the latter statement...  What I want to
>know is who they patterned the K'kree after???  ;-)
>
>Stu
IMHO, Probably the Mongols... The mongols ruled russia for over a century;
they didn't bother with direct control... but the punishment for
non-conformity to their government was the death of the "rebelious"
subjects. So who are the Hivers modeled after?

William F. Hostman

Aramis@AsylumBBS.com



------------------------------

From: Jo Grant/DUB/Lotus <Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus.LOTUSINT@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 18 Jul 96 11:49:09 EDT
Subject: Re: 2300AD

>I just recently loaned a copy of 2300AD but it does not have near star
>list (or what ever it is called).

Yo,
  Have a look on "http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~jaymin/chview". There is
a list of several thousand near stars plus a 3D PC viewer. I've had
very appreciative comments back from 2300 players about the utility
of this tool.
  If you just want a list, poke around on 
ftp://ftp.maths.tcd.ie/pub/jaymin/chview
and look for *.lst. These are just ascii listings of the collected stars.

Cheers,
Jo

------------------------------

From: Jo Grant/DUB/Lotus <Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus.LOTUSINT@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 18 Jul 96 11:43:44 EDT
Subject: Re: The Wonder years

>Why did Cleon stop his wars at Year 0? If he was hell bent to be seen as 
>the sucessor of both the Rule of Man and the Ziru Sirka, did he stop at Core?
  I wouldn't be positive that this was necessarily Cleon's view at the time.
It may have been more of a political convienence for short term benefit.
Of course history re-wrote it all...

>Unless the march of the Imperial ideal was so infective that whole 
>sectors wanted to join?
  Or that it was so repellant that all his neighbours made it clear to Cleon 
that
he had better stop this nonsense :-).

Jo

------------------------------

From: James Lowry <jlowry@tfb.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 96 11:16 PDT
Subject: Re: Realism

At 08:47 AM 7/18/96 +0800, you wrote:
>
>Stuart L. Dollar wrote:
>
>>
>>On 16 Jul 96 at 15:41, Tom Ellis spewed:
>>
>>> THe only real problems with an interplanetary mission are engineering
>>> details, no new technologies are needed.  For that matter, we have designs
>>> *now* for a huge .1C craft using nuclear detonation for thrust....no
>>> kidding.  The project was called Orion I believe.
>>
>>Yeah, but who wants to volunteer for that mission...  :-)
>>
>>Stu
>
>        Yeah... that ride would probably jar your fillings loose, all right :).
>
        "God was knocking, and he wanted in *bad*."
        Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle - Footfall
On board a ship with a similar propulsion system.

	James Lowry

	"They do.  They move faster than light."
	"I think you improve the tale.  Our theory says this cannot be."
	"Maybe we use different theories."
	--Larry Niven, Ringworld


------------------------------

From: Bri <bri@teleport.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 12:52:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Pop culture

On Wed, 17 Jul 1996, derek stanley wrote:

<snip>
> Jaque"
> "What will these American's give us in return?"
>
> Martian:
> "Something called, 'Baywatch.'"
 Hey man, Americans are many things but we are NOT ungrateful<grin>

bri <bri@teleport.com>
The Law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich, as well as the
poor, to sleep under the bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal
bread.      -- Anatole France


------------------------------

From: smithw@bing.televar.com
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 13:05:49 -0700
Subject: mailing list

>Traveller-digest           Thursday, 18 July 1996       Volume 1996 : Number
>266
>
>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
>All rights reserved.
>
>The following topics are covered in this digest:
>
>         1. Re: Realism
>         2. RE:Pop culture
>         3. Re: Fighters in Space
>         4. Re: Pop culture
>         5. Re: Culture and Realism 
>         6. TRTOOLS enhancements
>         7. How the Imperium REALLY fell...Long and Cranky
>         8. jump grid failure and dialect
>         9. Meson Screens.
>        10. Re: Realism
>        11. Ducted Fan Vehicles and FFS
>        12. Re: Realism
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>From: Paul Kestner <pjwk@erols.com>
>Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 00:59:51 -0400 (EDT)
>Subject: Re: Realism
>
>>On 16 jul 1996, Stu spewed:
>
>>> THe only real problems with an interplanetary mission are engineering
>>> details, no new technologies are needed.  For that matter, we have designs
>>> *now* for a huge .1C craft using nuclear detonation for thrust....no
>>> kidding.  The project was called Orion I believe.
>
>>Yeah, but who wants to volunteer for that mission...  :-)
>>
>>Stu
>
>
>
>(in high pitched frantic voice with much arm waving)
>"  ME... ME... ME... SEND ME !"
>
>My further thoughts on the discution thread...
>
>Reguardless of the tech level, I think that the biggest 'problem' is a cheap
>'earth-to-orbit' means.   Once in orbit, it is low cost but time consuming
>to go where ever you want to.  The long transit times, at the lower tech
>levels, should not be a hinderance to growth.   Look at 15th thru 17th
>century travel to the far east from europe.  With travel times of 2-3 years
>round trip, spain built an empire.
>(and they didn't have 'nintendo' games to pass the time.)
>(and we can make in-system phone/lasercom calls home.)
>
>Once a society developes routine use of local plantary space, sprawling
>across the solar system would only be halted by unlikely situations such as:
>  no where to go -- (you are at the only planet in the system, drat the luck.)
>  enemy action -- (those nasty Martians, they don't want to share the system.)
>  religious doctrine -- (God said he would come back to Earth, to take everyone
>                         to heaven, you don't want to be off visiting Jupiter
>                         when this happens, do you ???   If you answer yes,
>                         we will toss you in the loony bin, so behave, or
>else.)
>  idealogical indoctrination -- (out there cold, dark, dangerious....
>                                 down here warm, well lit, safe...
>                        If you perfer out there to down here, your crazy and
>                        we will toss you in the loony bin, so behave, or else.)
>
>The point I am trying to make is that the hurdel to be crossed is
>"earth-to-orbit" travel on a routine basis. not some benchmark of
>engineering design and/or fabrication capibility.   This viewpoint would
>factor in such effects as the 'will-of-the people' to achive dispite the
>costs, even with less then suitable tech level.  Or a society not so willing
>to pay high costs, but with engineering solutions that are less costly
>and/or safer.   This point of development may be crossed at tech level 7
>thru 10 or even higher if one of the unlikely situations is present.
>Paul Kestner  a.k.a.  pjwk@erols.com
>parting remark: "The Devil hides in the details."
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
>Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 23:23:26 -0800
>Subject: RE:Pop culture
>
>On 17 Jul 96 at 19:28, Eris Reddoch spewed:
>
>> Well OK, I'll admit to "Cheers"..even "The Beverly Hillbillies"..but
>> not "Saved by the Bell!"
>> 
>
>I'm afraid that we must take responsibility for "Saved by the Bell."  
>Then again, you can blame the Canadians for all those funny coins we 
>get for change down here in Arizona... :-)
>
>Ever try to put a Canadian dime into a coke machine???
>
>Stu
>"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent" -Isaac Asimov, from
>"Foundation"
>-
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----
>This tagline brought to you by Big Ed's Taco Emporium, conveniently located
>next to
>Bob's Pet Shop.
>Stuart L. Dollar           sdollar@goodnet.com    
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
>Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 23:23:26 -0800
>Subject: Re: Fighters in Space
>
>On 18 Jul 96 at 8:47, Roderick Darroch Elliott spewed:
>
>> 
>>         But wouldn't the Nimitz planing be a sight to see :)?
>> 
>
>Saw the Ranger once in port in San Diego...  Had friends who served 
>on the Kitty Hawk and the Eisenhower...  As massive as the 
>Supercarriers are, its a sight just to see one moored to the dock...
>
>Stu
>"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent" -Isaac Asimov, from
>"Foundation"
>-
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----
>This tagline brought to you by Big Ed's Taco Emporium, conveniently located
>next to
>Bob's Pet Shop.
>Stuart L. Dollar           sdollar@goodnet.com    
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
>Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 23:23:26 -0800
>Subject: Re: Pop culture
>
>On 17 Jul 96 at 7:27, derek stanley spewed:
>
>> Martian:
>> "Something called, 'Baywatch.'"
>> 
>> Yes, Baywatch the high point of American TV culture.  And the brilliant 
>> point of the show is it's people running, that's it they run, what more 
>> do you want to see.
>> 
>> I always though this was a brilliant add.
>
>I think it's a funny ad, but I'd like to think we've contributed a 
>little more than that to world culture...
>
>You could start with music, for one.  Virtually every major musical 
>movement of the 20th century saw its origin in the US...  Ragtime, 
>Jazz, Blues, Rock, etc...
>
>I don't think things would be nearly as interesting without Hollywood...  
>(OK, so the world could have probably lived without Friday the 13th, 
>but still...)  :-)
>
>Ironically enough, it says something about Baywatch that Canadian 
>ad execs are commenting on it... not sure what it says about 
>Canadians...they must be watching it if they find this funny... :-)
>
>On the other hand, I have no illusions about the quality or total 
>lack thereof in Baywatch... :-)
>
>Stu
> 
>"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent" -Isaac Asimov, from
>"Foundation"
>-
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----
>This tagline brought to you by Big Ed's Taco Emporium, conveniently located
>next to
>Bob's Pet Shop.
>Stuart L. Dollar           sdollar@goodnet.com    
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
>Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 23:23:26 -0800
>Subject: Re: Culture and Realism 
>
>On 17 Jul 96 at 7:06, derek stanley spewed:
>
>> > Suspect this one's already happened a time or two...
>> > Look at the Vilani.  Who are the Vilani?  They're the Japanese, no one 
>> comes right out an says it but they're our western stereotypical 
>> Japanese.
>
>Derek,
>
>I'm not saying your wrong, but I don't think you could accuse the 
>Japanese of the fear of technology and change so typical of the 
>Vilani...
>
>I can see the resemblances in cultural conservatism, but there is 
>cultural conservatism to a greater or lesser extent in all cultures, 
>including Western civilization...
>
>Stu
>"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent" -Isaac Asimov, from
>"Foundation"
>-
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----
>This tagline brought to you by Big Ed's Taco Emporium, conveniently located
>next to
>Bob's Pet Shop.
>Stuart L. Dollar           sdollar@goodnet.com    
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: Michael Bailey <mickb@thehub.com.au>
>Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 16:32:02 -0900
>Subject: TRTOOLS enhancements
>
>Having finally got hold of a copy of my work, I'm looking at upgrading the
>TRTOOLS code base  - cleaning up the code and adding a few enhancements.
>
>To those who have this set of utilities, I'm looking for suggested
>amendments or enhancements.  I'm planning on converting it to Windows -
>although I'll continue to maintain a DOS based version if enough people want
>it that way.
>
>To those that don't have TRTOOLS, it's a set of simple Traveller utilities
>that map sectors (by allegiance, population and tech level), subsectors
>(allegiance only) and generate Hard Times and Collapse effects from Second
>Survey UEP data.  It's rudimentary when compared to Jim's GALACTIC program,
>but as a set of command-line utilities it does the job.
>
>Send me mail if you're interested.  It will be up on my Traveller pages
>shortly, along with some sample maps and output.
>
>To Jim (author of the excellent GALACTIC program).  Your effort still makes
>mine look ameteurish, but if you are interested in picking over the
>(decidedly dodgy in places) code, be my guest.
>
>Thanx,
>
>Mick 
>
>PS some ship names - with obvious cultural bias...
>
>INS Winston Abraham
>INS Scott Chisolm
>INS Jason Dunstall
>IISS Peter Matera
>IISS Matthew 'Spider' Burton
>
>heh, heh
>
>Michael Bailey 
>
>'quick to judge, quick to anger, slow to understand.  Ignorance and
>prejudice and fear walk hand in hand.'
>                             Rush, 'The Witchhunt'
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: sudet@well.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
>Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 00:06:34 -0700 (PDT)
>Subject: How the Imperium REALLY fell...Long and Cranky
>
>>From: ROWAN Iain <wm0iro@acresearch.sunderland.ac.uk>
>
>>This does raise an interesting question.  When we read an account of
>>Imperial history, such as the posting which started this off, are we
>>reading the Actual God's Own Truth - a step out of the game which
>>provides an accurate account - or are we reading the perspective
>>on history which the average citizen of the Imperium (and therefore
>>most PC's) would have?  
>
>>It strikes me that it would be quite neat for players to go into a
>>situation with certain expectations because of what they had
>>read, only to find those expectations confounded by reality.
>
>If you're refereeing a game for which background material is published, you
>should treat all of the published material as something other than the AGOT,
>and decide for yourself what the AGOT should be.  That way, your players
>can't figure the universe out before you.
>
>It's just like real life.  We all know that Neil Armstrong was the first man
>on the moon because, well, it's a historical event, and he says he did and
>Buzz Aldrin says so too, and there isn't much real controversy over it.
>None of us actually saw it, however.  I saw something on TV that the
>announcer told me was our astronauts on the moon.  I'll never really know,
>but the world works ok for me if I assume that that's true.
>
>Likewise, my players all know that Grandfather wiped out all of his Droyne
>descendants and retired into a pocket universe to contemplate whatever.
>None of them have ever been there; they've just read Secret of the Ancients.
>The universe works ok for them if they assume that it's true, until they run
>into facts that suggest that it isn't.
>
>- --Glenn
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: sudet@well.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
>Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 00:06:38 -0700 (PDT)
>Subject: jump grid failure and dialect
>
>>From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
>
>>On 07/17/96 at 12:15 AM,  sudet@well.com (Glenn M. Goffin) said:
>
>>>would lead them to
>>>conclude that the jump grid wasn't functioning quite right.  Then
>>>they'd have to trace and repair it, or at least mark off the holes
>>>where j-space might -- or might not -- be reaching in.  
>
>You remember those submarine movies where the crew are walking around with
>boards held in front of them, looking for steam leaks?  I'm thinking of
>something like that.  Maybe the board would have a piece of sensitive
>electronic equipment on the end -- or a beaked monkey from container DL-22
>- -- and when the spacer saw it stop working (or breathing), s/he'd know that
>j-space was present.
>
>"Saw it stop" made me think of The Tomorrow File by Lawrence Sanders, which
>has some good dialect that could be imported into a science fiction rpg
>("em" and "ef" for man and woman; "stop" for die; "love" for money; and many
>others).
>
>- --Glenn
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: hbill@primenet.com (bill hutchinson)
>Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 02:41:03 -0700 (MST)
>Subject: Meson Screens.
>
>Anyone use meson screens in there TNE game??
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: Tom Ellis <tellis@telerama.lm.com>
>Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 06:48:44 -0400 (EDT)
>Subject: Re: Realism
>
>On Wed, 17 Jul 1996, Eris Reddoch wrote:
>
>> On 07/17/96 at 11:13 AM,  Tom Ellis <tellis@telerama.lm.com> said:
>> 
>> >To wax serious for a moment, the Orion designs were never intended
>> >for interplanetary travel, but for interstellar, sublight travel. 
>> >They would be illegal because international law prohibits the
>> >detonation of nuclear devices in orbit or in space.
>> 
>> Currently yes, but that treaty (I think it's a test-ban treaty rather
>> than an international law) doesn't ban the use of nuclear reactors or
>> radioactive isotopes for power in satilites.  I also think the ban is
>> limited to a certain number of kilometers/miles above the surface.  I
>> almost positive a Nerva style rocket would be OK, both legally and
>> environmentally *above* the atmosphere.
>> 
>> Frankly an Orion style craft wouldn't be something I would want to see
>> used except as a last resort anyway.  There are *many* good
>> alternatives that don't have the problems of an Orion.
>
>
>Oh, by all means, I agree completely.  I just always found it to be a neat
>idea....BOOOM....OFF WE GO.
>
>
>> 
>> Eris
>> 
>> -- 
>> -----------------------------------------------------------
>> eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
>> -----------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>
>_______________________________________________________
>Tom Ellis
>tellis@telerama.lm.com
>http://www.lm.com/~tellis/
>
>"No! Do, or do not.  There is not try." Yoda
>_______________________________________________________ 
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
>Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 03:50:05 -0700 (PDT)
>Subject: Ducted Fan Vehicles and FFS
>
>I was trying to generate some non-gravitic vehicles using FFS and 
>discovered that it is basically impossible to create a viable ducted fan 
>air-vehicle at less than TL 14 (and even then it is *very* close to the 
>limit).  Are the lift and power values on page 75 of FFS correct?  Is 
>there some simple trick I'm missing to create such vehicles?
>
>Thanks
>
>- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: "Gerald S. Williams" <gsw@aloft.att.com>
>Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 07:10:27 -0400
>Subject: Re: Realism
>
>On Thursday, July 18, eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch) wrote:
>> Frankly an Orion style craft wouldn't be something I would want to see
>> used except as a last resort anyway.
>
>But it's our best hope if a bunch of elephantine alien invaders
>begin dropping rocks on us. :-)
>
>- -O Gerald Williams / Bell Laboratories - PAI830 55E-224 O-
>- -O gsw@lucent.com /   1247 South Cedar Crest Boulevard  O-
>- -O (610)712-3370 /          Allentown, PA  18103        O-
>- -O -------------/ "Innovations for Lucent Technologies" O-
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>End of Traveller-digest V1996 #266
>**********************************
>
>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:
>
>unsubscribe traveller-digest
>
>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
>to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
>such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
>"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":
>
>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net
>
>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
>in the commands above with "traveller".

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1996 #267
**********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".
