
-------- TML Message #952 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 952
From: ("Mark F. Cook") markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM
Subject: Re: Pt. Defense Targetting?
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 90 9:12:53 PST


>>I assume that the PA-11 automatically has PDT (Pt. Def. Targetting) and
>>the one add-on mentioned is for the autocannon.  Anyway, how does this
>>get used in vehicle combat?  Does the tank gunner give up a shot at a
>>target during a combat round, and elect to use PDT to eliminate incoming
>>rounds instead?  Or does PDT automatically provide some kind of defensive
>>DM for the tank and no explicit crew action is required?
>
>In Striker, the weapon used as for PD(point defense) is dedicated for
>that combat round.  So it is used against any incoming rounds and can not
>be used for attacking a target.

OK, this is fine.  However, I still don't understand how this translates
into game mechanics.  Given the same grav-tank (w/ PA-ll and 3 cm. AutoCan),
can I simply say that, in a given combat round, the Autocannon will be used
for PDT and assume that it shoots down ALL incoming projectiles 100%?  If
so, then this is way too powerful.  I mean, what's to prevent you (the gunner)
from treating your enemies grav-tank as a PDT target and eliminating the 'To
Hit' round all together?

>>Second question: where does the 3 cm Auto-Cannon come from?
>
>Q2: answer:
>  I have looked at the MT rules breifly and seen what looks like alot of
>tables and stuff based on Striker, so I going by that....
>In Striker the smallest size gun (Auto cannon, Mass driver, etc) you can
>make has a 2cm bore.  The Sword Worlds Gram Grav tank, I think (haven't
>looked in the Striker rules for a while) is included in the Striker
>Rules.

What would the MT combat stats. for the 2 cm. and 3 cm. AutoCannon be?

        "Look.  All of this talking is getting us nowhere!  I think we
         should try a more direct approach."

        "MY GOD!!  THAT'S A HAND GRENADE!!"

        "Right.  It's faster than imperial arbitration, and it hurts less."

        Mark F. Cook

USMail: User Interface Technical Support
        Hewlett-Packard - Interface Technology Operation
        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330

INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.hp.com
UUCP:     {cmcl2, harpo, hplabs, rice, tektronix}!hp-pcd!markc

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-------- TML Message #953 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 953
From: wrgate.wr.tek.com!reed.UUCP!oresoft.uu.net!richard@tektronix.TEK.COM (Richard Johnson)
Subject: All those wonderful files on Genie
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 90 8:25:41 PDT


Well, it looks like maybe there's enough of us interested in those
files that maybe we should take up a collection and get 'em all at
once for the whole list?  If the cost of getting them is going to be
prohibitive for any one member (I sure of that, looking at the
number and size of thos files), it will surely be too expensive for
all of us to rush out and get Genie accounts.

Any thoughts on how to implement a group fund to pay for downloading
them?

Richard Johnson


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-------- TML Message #954 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 954
From: wrgate.wr.tek.com!reed.UUCP!oresoft.uu.net!richard@tektronix.TEK.COM (Richard Johnson)
Subject: Re: Usenet News (and another option)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 90 8:56:14 PDT




My $0.02 about becoming a newsgroup...

NO, NO, NO!

1. There is some measure of selectivity in a list.
   Only seriously interested people go to the trouble of
   subscribing.  (I hate to think how many requests I'd have for a
   PBEM if the whole world could play.)

2. There is some minor measure of copyright protection in a list.
   Because we are self-selecting, and de-facto moderated, we are not
   completely public.  (I wouldn't trust this alone to hold or void
   a copyright if you wanted to mail in a really neat adventure,
   though.)  
   
3. It's a lot harder for your system manager to cut off access to
   your mail, than it is for her/him/it to cut off your newsfeed
   (well, justifiably cut it off.)


One alternative (really radical alternative) I've considered:

	Is there anyone out there with connections to GDW and/or Digest
	Group?  Why not, monthly, glean the best of the list, and make
	it available to the readers of Challenge and Traveller's Digest?

	(Plans and adventures cost extra, of course :-)

	Whoever did this would get published, make a little pocket
	change (very little.  GDW pays 1/4 cent per word, Digest group 
	pays 1/2 cent per word, last time I checked), and maybe actually 
	get a fund going to download some of those files from Genie :-).

Richard Johnson


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-------- TML Message #955 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 955
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 90 13:37:55 EST
From: Chris Bartlett (Mouser) <cdba_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu>
Subject: Usenet



I'm with metlay on this one.  I can't see how making the tml a Usenet newsgroup
is going to improve the quality of discussion around here.  If anything, I
can see the quality going down as people from rec.games.frp start
contributing ( AD&D -- Blechh! ).

Oh yeah, the 3 cm autocannon is described on page three of 101 Vehicles ( I
think :-). In regard to the discussion about weapons skills, I think that a
referee should decide on some sort of house rules as to what someone should
be able to take as a weapon skill if they receive "gun combat".  The "gun
cbt" skill is a cascade skill, after all, and the character's choices should
be limited by his or her occupation. I can't really see a doctor character
taking fusion weapons as his skill under "gun cbt"...


				Chris


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-------- TML Message #956 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 956
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 90 13:19 EST
From: RWMIRA01%ULKYVX.BITNET@cornellc.cit.cornell.edu
Subject: Re: GEnie


I will try to find out information on how to access GEnie.  Here is the basic
information that I have.

I think they have a DATA 1-800 sign up line.  You probably could call
1-800-555-1212 and get the number (but Hey, I will try to find it for you :-)

You need an account (Much like CompuServe).  The rates at last check were:
  300 baud      $5.00 an hour
 1200 baud      $5.00 an hour
 2400 baud      $12.50 an hour
(Higher speed = lot higher rates).  They still have prime and non-prime time
rates.  The values above are for non-prime time (6p to 6a EST I belive, but I
will verify that too)

Hopefully they will have a local access number in your city.  They have both
1200 and 2400 baud access here in Louisville, KY.  I will also check to see
about getting to them via Telenet and Tymenet.

Rob

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-------- TML Message #957 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 957
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 90 16:11 EST
From: RWMIRA01%ULKYVX.BITNET@cornellc.cit.cornell.edu
Subject: GEnie Archives


Since I have the account, it would make sense for me to do the downloading
huh?  I wouldn't mind draining the BBS messages off of there and cross posting
them if they were/are worthwild.  Maybe after I can convince da wife to let me
use it instead of CServe.  (Since UofL is getting me a CIS account so I can
stay in touch with Borland and such).  I will see how it goes with it.

If I can wing this with her, then I will start grabbing a few files a month
and posting them.  I didn't pay attention to the frequency in which they were
uploaded.

Payment?  If she will be cool about this, then maybe you all can fly to
Louisville for a Weekend Traveller Bash of Pizza and Gauss Rifles.  (It is hard
finding Traveller Stuff and players here in L'ville)


Rob Miracle
rwmira01@ulkyvx.bitnet   or   rob@disk.uucp

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-------- TML Message #958 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 958
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 90 17:27:08 PST
From: (John Wilber) wilber%sal-sun42.usc.edu@usc.edu
Subject: Downloading GEnie files


I've got a few suggestions for getting those GEnie files, which I am
very interested in myself.

One suggestion:  We (this will probably be Jim or somebody with a GEnie
account) talk to GEnie, and ask them if there is some way we could get
the files on some form of magnetic media, such as disk or tape.  If they
wanted to charge us, we have them quote us a price.  Once we have a
price, we quote it, and then us TML "members" make contributions until
the amount is needed.  Then we post the files, and we're all happy.

Suggestion two: We estimate the cost of downloading the files at a given
baud rate.  Hopefully, this will be done at 9600 baud, for the benefit of
the poor soul that will finally do it.  Anyway, once we get a good
estimate, we all make "contributions," and then reimburse some volunteer
for getting them.  Any extra money obtained could go to this volunteer
also, to provide a little incentive, and to compensate for time spent,
phone bills, etc.

If we were to solicit "contributions," I propose that Jim, or some proxy
that he designates, be the "treasurer" for this endeavor.  Reciepts
could be posted on the TML, or privately e-mailed, and the progress of
the kitty could also be periodically posted on the TML.

/***********************************************************************\
* John J. Wilber           * "Im Himmel gibts kein Bier zum trinken wir *
* wilber@nunki.usc.edu     *  es hier"                  -German Proverb *
* Student, partier, beer   * "In heaven there's no beer, so we might as *
* drinker, fun-loving guy. *  well drink it here"          -Translation *
*************************************************************************
* "I woke up this morning and I got myself a beer"           -The Doors *
\***********************************************************************/


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-------- TML Message #959 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 959
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 90 22:13 EST
From: RWMIRA01%ULKYVX.BITNET@cornellc.cit.cornell.edu
Subject: GEnie information ... from the BOOK


Customer assistance Number:  1-800-638-9636, Ext 21.
Data Settings:  7E1, 300, 1200, or 2400 baud depending on your city's genie
connection.  HALF Duplex (Local Echo On)

To sign up electroniclly:
Call 1-800-638-8369 (300 or 1200 baud).  Once connected, enter 3 h's:

HHH

(This sets the baud rate)  At the U#= prompt, enter
XTX99649.

Have a credit card number of your checking account number ready (They do
Checkfree).

300/1200 is $6.00 (not the $5.00 an hour earlier stated by moi).

This information is a bit dated.  It comes from two sources:
  1) The GEnie user guide.
  2) September 1989 PC World AD (pg. 83)

If any one gets a GEnie account, to access the Traveller Sig, you need to go
to the Games Roundtable under the games menu.   Once you get there, it
shouldn't be a problem to figure the rest out.

If you do sign up, leave me mail, just so I will know :-).  My GEnie mail
address is MIRACLERW.

Rob


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-------- TML Message #960 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 960
From: ("Mark F. Cook") markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM
Subject: $$$ for Genie listings
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 90 14:43:59 PST


>Well, it looks like maybe there's enough of us interested in those
>files that maybe we should take up a collection and get 'em all at
>once for the whole list?  If the cost of getting them is going to be
>prohibitive for any one member (I sure of that, looking at the
>number and size of thos files), it will surely be too expensive for
>all of us to rush out and get Genie accounts.

I absolutely agree!  We need to get all of this stuff onto one of the
archive systems (sunbane, joshua, etc.) so we can all get at it whenever
we want.  I'd definitely be willing to kick in my share of $$ to cover
the cost.

>Any thoughts on how to implement a group fund to pay for downloading
>them?

Well, maybe we can get Rob (at Cornell) to do it for us and then everyone
on this end could split the price equally and send him a check.  Yah, I
know that's pretty financially naive, but I suspect that anything else
we come up with would probably be about the same.

I personally want the Subsector data, since I've got a whizzo X-Windows
program that reads UWP's for a given subsector and spits out a subsector
map (on a laserjet) that looks almost as good as the stuff printed by
GDW.  I need more data (shades of Johnny 5!) and I don't want to type
it in myself!

        "Look.  All of this talking is getting us nowhere!  I think we
         should try a more direct approach."

        "MY GOD!!  THAT'S A HAND GRENADE!!"

        "Right.  It's faster than imperial arbitration, and it hurts less."

        Mark F. Cook

USMail: User Interface Technical Support
        Hewlett-Packard - Interface Technology Operation
        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330

INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.hp.com
UUCP:     {cmcl2, harpo, hplabs, rice, tektronix}!hp-pcd!markc

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Windows
program that reads UWP's for a given subsector and spits out a subsector
map (on a laserjet) that looks almost as good as the stuff printed by
GDW.  I need more data (shades of Johnny 5!) and I don't want to type
it in myself!

        "Look.  All of this talking is getting us nowhere!  I think we
         should try a more direct approach."

        "MY GOD!!  THAT'S A HAND GRENADE!!"

        "Right.  It's faster than imperial arbitration, and it hurts less."

        Mark F. Cook

USMail: User Interface Technical Support
        Hewlett-Packard - Interface Technology Operation
        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330

INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.hp.com
UUCP:     {cmcl2, harpo, hplabs, rice, tektronix}!hp-pcd!markc

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-------- TML Message #961 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 961
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 90 17:13 EST
From: (Bob Mahoney) BOBMAH%PSC.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu
Subject: Those GENIE files...


Richard's right- I'm willing to contribute towards getting those files for
the list.  What kind of money are we talking?  I've never had any dealings
with pay-to-compute services...   Also, have any of the TML members who
have GENIE accounts already have one or more of these files?  No sense in
getting more than we need.

If the person who has access can estimate the cost, that might be a good place
to start.  At any rate, I'm in.

- -Bob                                                 bobmah@psc.bitnet

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-------- TML Message #962 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 962
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 90 16:40:21 EST
From: (Greg Givler - Product Assurance) givler@cbmvax.commodore.COM
Subject: Re:  All those wonderful files on Genie



Let me go up in the next couple of nights and get some of them down and
put them on the list. As I explained in a previous post, I can do it for free
just maybe not all at once. The other thing is that I haven't been on GEnie
in about 4 months and my Free account may not be there anymore. :-)

Let me take a look either tonight or over the weekend and let you know what
can be done.

Greg

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Givler                        | Q-Link: GregGivler
Analyst - Systems Evaluation Group | CompuServe: Greg Givler 76702,647
Commodore Product Assurance        | GEnie: G.Givler
215-431-9100                       | The NET: givler@cbmvax.commodore.com
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Wild Whores couldn't keep me away!" -- George Francisco
"That's Horses, George" -- Matt Sikes -- Alien Nation --  Fox Broadcasting --
===============================================================================

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-------- TML Message #963 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 963
From: (Bertil Jonell) d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: GEnie in a bottle...
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 90 7:52:49 MET DST


I'm in an any scheme to get those files, except for credit card frauds:-)

But, some of the things on that list seemed very copyrighted to me. Things like
first drafts out of new books and the UPP's that DGP is supposed to be selling
on disc soon. They might be free to use by any GEnie subscriber, but they might
not be free to spread on the TML :-(

By the way: I'm mostly interested in the sector data listings :-)

On the "News"-question: 
"Newsgroup, JUST SAY NO!"
Then we'd just have a lot of morons debating what an Imperial Marine would do
if he captured an orc that surrendered...

- -bertil-
- -- 
Bertil K K Jonell @ Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg
NET: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se 
VOICE: +46 31 723971 / +46 300 61004     "Don't worry,I've got Pilot-7"
SNAILMAIL: Box 154,S-43900 Onsala,SWEDEN      (Famous last words)      
"During the high point of the Downes Age, they put Ming the Merciless in charge
of designing California gas stations" W.Gibson "The Gernsback Continuum"

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-------- TML Message #964 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 964
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 90 19:41 EST
From: METLAY@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Subject: Traveller Weapons philosophy (long)




	I just thought I'd toss in my two credits' worth on the topic of 
weapons in the MT rules, on their availability and their uses. These opinions 
were formulated on the basis of my ten-plus years of ironing out the bugs in 
Traveller Classic, and having to start all over again in MegaTraveller. |-<

	In campaigns that I ran in the good old days when Stref was still 
kicking and lawnorder prevailed Throughout Our Fair Kingdom, the presence of 
an Imperial government with a vested interest in maintaining peace and quiet 
in the starports and on the worlds of its domain made things really simple.
In short, people couldn't GET any of the really balance-wrecking weapons under 
normal circumstances, and those who did were usually hunted down and killed by 
the Imperial authorities, who enjoy the concept of citizens with high energy 
weapons and rigid armor about as much as the DEA enjoys the concept of drug 
smugglers having easy access to shoulder-launched missiles and heavy machine 
guns. The difference between the Imperium and the USA in this case is that the 
Imperium has no legal, moral or ethical obligation not to go in shooting, with 
heavier guns than the bad guys have. Arms suppliers are usually a hunted breed 
for similar reasons, unless they "follow the rules" and keep the really bad 
stuff out of the hands of people who shouldn't have it.

What did this rigid enforcement of the arms laws mean to the average Traveller 
group? Nothing above TL 10, that's what. No Gauss weapons, no high energy 
weapons, and no combat armor or battle dress. And the improvement in game 
quality was amazing: if all you have is an ACR and a combat environment suit, 
you tend to think harder and plan more carefully before you start shooting, 
despite the fact that you know the people you'll be fighting are no better off 
than you are, normally. Firefights were significantly fewer and further 
between, and carried an element of real risk in them: the armor/weapon balance 
at TL 10 is such that (at least under the old rules) you could take a hit, or 
even two, and hold body and soul together for a few more rounds before passing 
out, adding to the drama and excitement of the game. Since I was fortunate 
enough to be dealing with sensible and mature gamers in most instances, 
parties were quick to recognize the element of risk and fun this added to the 
game, and followed policy with thankfully little whining from people who felt 
emasculated without a giant, plasma-shooting phallic symbol on hand.

Nowadays, in the Shattered Imperium, these careful regulations, which rely 
upon a well-policed and stable environment to maintain themselves, go to 
pieces. The result is a game where any butthead with enough money can put on 
Combat Armor, pick up an FGMP-15, and go looking for adventure. Adventure? 
Hah! Where's the adventure in being able to deep-fry anything and everything 
that's thrown at you, up to a point, beyond which you're effectively naked and 
helpless? So I'm experimenting with more, shall we say, PRACTICAL means of 
maintaining game balance, using common sense and some important Trav Classic
rules that should have carried over into MT (but if they did, I don't know
where they're written up). 

First off, I have relaxed the weapons availability laws in keeping with the
collapse of Imperial High Justice. It is now at least reasonably feasible for
a player to get ahold of anything he wants. The obvious extension of this, the
fact that the bad guys also have anything they want, is a heavy-handed and
unsatisfactory balancing agent; if a party gets smoked in mesquite because
they forget that other people can have FGMPs too, who's the poor sumbitch that
has to help them roll up new characters? ME! 

There must be other ways to keep this stuff out of the players' hands. Some of
the ones I've been experimenting with are: cost, maintainance, and what I call
the "ice factor." First of all, there's no way around it: high-tech guns cost 
a lot. They aren't easy to find, at low TL they aren't elegant or streamlined 
in manufacture, and their power packs and ammo cost a lot, too. Of course, the 
ref who allows the option of having a plasma rifle will also probably let his 
players get rich enough to buy them or lucky enough to steal them, so this in 
itself may not be enough. But it's a good place to start.

Second, there's a direct relationship between the complexity of a weapon, its
cost, and its cost of maintainance. It's fairly easy to keep a revolver in
good shape; it can lie in a drawer unused and untouched for literally years
and yet come up firing at a moment's notice. One TL up from that, though, we
have the autopistol, which is much more inclined to be finicky if it's
dropped, not kept clean, not handled and oiled often, or even fed the wrong
sort of supposedly-fine ammo. Machine guns are for the most part even more
complex, and so on up the ladder. 

(What about modernization? A very useful rule of thumb is that if a weapon is
introduced at a certain TL, in one more TL it tends to be fairly commonplace,
hence reliable and less cranky, and this margin of safety increases still
more, if slowly, after that. As an example, the first machine guns at TL 5
were crew served, water cooled, heavy, cantankerous, and prone to jams. By TL
6, they were small enough for one man to carry, and reliable enough to work
even when muddy or wet. By TL 7, they were small enough to hold in one hand
and carry in shoulder holsters, and who knows where we'll be at TL 8 or 9? The
introductory TL of a weapon and the TL at which it's bought are very different
things; this has a bearing on the weapon's functionality and features, which
is touched on in very limited ways by the Digest Group equipment sheets, that
scale device performance by TL.) 

When we start talking about Gauss and Hi-E weapons, we are talking about
electric/mechanical devices with a high degree of precision and a lot of
separate components that must all function perfectly for the gun to work. Now,
nobody's going to state that these weapons aren't rugged; the Imperial forces
couldn't fight with them if they weren't. But the flip side of this is that
these weapons must be maintained and serviced on a regular basis....and the
means of servicing them is a perfect deterrent to people who think they can
get away with keeping such monstrosities around. According to the rules in
Mercenary (Trav Classic Book 4, for you youngsters out there), a HiE weapon
must be completely disassembled and serviced once every 24 hours. We can 
assume that's at its introductory TL, if we wish, and extend the service time 
to a few days or a week. But it won't make a difference to a party: when one 
keeps in mind that these things are basically small nuclear reactors 
(according to the rules; we'll ignore their patent impossibility for now), it 
becomes obvious that you're not going to be able to do a good job on them on 
the workbench in the engine room of your ship! Armories at TL 12 and up are 
among the best-equipped shops in history, and they handle very different needs 
than a starship shop. It's one thing to get a fusion gun; it's another to keep 
it working. In the uncertain times in which the Imperium now lives, a plasma 
gun is a nice insurance policy for emergencies, but nobody who isn't richer 
and better connected than any party has the right to be is going to be able to 
afford to keep them working safely. Gauss weapons are a much easier 
proposition, but can still be difficult to keep in good order; however, most 
folks consider the extra power they provide to be worth the hassle. Note that 
the same problem holds for Battle Dress, whereas one can get away with Combat 
Armor in a pinch since it doesn't have powerpack problems.

Third and last is the "ice factor." This is the way other people tend to view 
someone in a risk situation based on their arms and armor. In the campaigns I 
run, it's considered common for starfarers to wear pistols of some kind in 
their normal day-to-day activities. However, the carrying of rifles is frowned 
upon, since a longarm isn't usually something you're keeping handy for 
self-defence in an emergency. If a party is transporting precious cargo,
bodyguarding, or doing other high-risk work, then passersby who recognize this
tend to treat such parties with respect. However, the average guy who goes out 
with rigid armor, a Gauss or HiE rifle, or both, for no good reason other than 
to "be ready for trouble," is going to attract scorn and derision from those 
around him, if in fact he isn't arrested or simply shot from behind as a risk 
to pedestrian traffic. He's obviously either a criminal, a sociopath, or a 
stupid showoff, all of which make him too dangerous to leave at large. These 
items, with their connotations of Imperial force and heedless crushing of 
resistance, will inspire nobody. You won't get hired as a starmerc if you 
walk into your interview armed that way; you'll be considered too stupid to be 
a safe employee!

So far, these concepts have integrated themselves well into the campaign I 
run. Occasionally we get people pining for plasma guns, but the last guy who 
actually got one sold it off for a fraction of its value, because he knew he 
needed the cash more than he could use a fusion gun.

Have other people tried similar tactics? Or does nobody other than me mind 
parties that are capable of levelling cities?

metlay

PS. If you think THOSE rules are restrictive, my first Traveller universe had 
starships whose interiors couldn't withstand any sort of gunfire without 
causing serious damage; boarding actions were done with SWORDS! |-> Sure it 
was silly, but it was a helluva lot of fun, too.


All opinions and material above is the responsibility of the originator.
Submissions: traveller@dadla.wr.tek.com, or uunet!dadla.wr.tek.com!traveller
Administrator: traveller-request@dadla.wr.tek.com (James Perkins)
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by Tektronix, Inc.

-------- TML Message #965 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 965
Subject: Re:  Usenet News
Date: Wed, 07 Feb 90 14:27:24 MST
From: rona@hpdml92.boi.hp.COM


Bart Massey writes:
> 
> So, this list is pretty successful -- I'm seeing at least 40 messages a
> week, and no sign of a letup in sight.  Maybe it's time to make this thing a
> Usenet newsgroup, with an e-mail gateway for those people without Usenet
> access?  It would be a feature, from my point of view, to be able to use the
> news interface, and I don't foresee any major objections from the net.
> 'rec.games.traveller'?  'rec.games.frp.traveller'?  Any encouragement or
> flames?  James, what do *you* think?
> 
There does seem to be enough traffic to justify a newsgroup.  And I agree 
that the news interface would be a great feature.  So, I would vote in 
favor of a rec.games.traveller group.

Would we eliminate the mailing list if this happened?  Are there some 
discussions that are more appropriate on a mailing list?


        Ron Abramson   email: rona@hpdml92.hp.com


All opinions and material above is the responsibility of the originator.
Submissions: traveller@dadla.wr.tek.com, or uunet!dadla.wr.tek.com!traveller
Administrator: traveller-request@dadla.wr.tek.com (James Perkins)
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by Tektronix, Inc.

-------- TML Message #966 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 966
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 90 09:25:25 EST
From: (Greg Givler - Product Assurance) givler@cbmvax.commodore.COM
Subject: Stuff on GEnie



I was up on GEnie last night, first time since Sept 89! Anyway, I downloaded
the very Brief descriptions, which is the list that you saw, and the 
not-so-brief file descriptions. The Brief listing is 12K the not-so-brief 
one is 62K. That may be to large for the list. If you want I can send you
the not-so-brief listing to you via E-Mail or I will post to the list.
Give me some feedback as to what you want to see. Also I will be downloading
some stuff for my own interest, so I will post some of that to the list.



Let me know what you want.

Here are some examples from each list.

Brief listing:

  No. File Name             Type Address      YYMMDD Bytes   Access Lib
- ----- ------------------------ - ------------ ------ ------- ------ ---

 1861 UCPS-RS.TXT              7 B.BORICH     900207   21420      1  10
      Desc: Revised UCP's for Reb Source Ships
 1860 TECH15.WK1               X B.BORICH     900207   34020      2  10
      Desc: Megatraveller TL15 ship design sheet
 1859 TECH13.WK1               X B.BORICH     900207   32760      0  10
      Desc: Megatraveller TL13 ship design sheet
 1858 TECH11.WK1               X B.BORICH     900207   28980      0  10
      Desc: Megatraveller tl11 ship design sheet
 1857 GE.SPACE                 7 M.MIKESH     900207   13860      1  10
      Desc: Discussion of Regions of Space
 1855 MEGATOPIC31.1            X LSP.MEYERS   900206   70560      0  10
      Desc: MegaTrav BB Topic 31: 1-50
 1849 SOLOMANI III             7 P.CELELLA    900201   11340      5  10
      Desc: More Solomani Histories
 1845 FFW.RULES                X LSP.MEYERS   900127    7560     19  10
      Desc: FFW Online Rules

Not-so-brief listing:

Library: 10 - Traveller/Megatraveller
 *********************************
Number: 1861  Name: UCPS-RS.TXT
Address: B.BORICH  Date: 900207
Approximate # of Bytes: 21420
Number of Accesses: 1  Library: 10
Description:
A set of Revised UCP's (corrections) to ships listed in the Rebellion
Sourcebook.  By Clay Bush.
Keywords: megatraveller, traveller, ships, errata
 ---------------------------------

File: UCPS-RS.TXT
File Ready. 7 Bit Text.

Press <RETURN> to skip, <D>ownload, or <Q>uit.


Skipping file ...
 *********************************
Number: 1860  Name: TECH15.WK1
Address: B.BORICH  Date: 900207
Approximate # of Bytes: 34020
Number of Accesses: 2  Library: 10
Description:
Megatraveller Tech Level 15 ship design spreadsheet by Clay Bush.  It is
in Lotus 1-2-3 format.
Keywords: megatraveller, traveller, ship design, spreadsheet
 ---------------------------------

File: TECH15.WK1
is a BINARY File.

Press <RETURN> to skip, <D>ownload, <L>ist, or <Q>uit.


Skipping file ...
 *********************************
Number: 1859  Name: TECH13.WK1
Address: B.BORICH  Date: 900207
Approximate # of Bytes: 32760
Number of Accesses: 0  Library: 10
Description:
Megatraveller Tech Level 13 ship design spreadsheet by Clay Bush.  It is
in Lotus 1-2-3 format
Keywords: megatraveller, traveller, ship design, spreadsheet
 ---------------------------------

File: TECH13.WK1
is a BINARY File.

Press <RETURN> to skip, <D>ownload, <L>ist, or <Q>uit.


Skipping file ...
 *********************************
Number: 1858  Name: TECH11.WK1
Address: B.BORICH  Date: 900207
Approximate # of Bytes: 28980
Number of Accesses: 0  Library: 10
Description:
This is a Tech Level 11 ship design spreadsheet by Clay Bush.  It is in
Lotus 1-2-3 format.
Keywords: megatraveller, traveller, spreadsheet, ship design
 ---------------------------------

File: TECH11.WK1
is a BINARY File.

Press <RETURN> to skip, <D>ownload, <L>ist, or <Q>uit.


Skipping file ...
 *********************************
Number: 1857  Name: GE.SPACE
Address: M.MIKESH  Date: 900207
Approximate # of Bytes: 13860
Number of Accesses: 1  Library: 10
Description:
This is a draft of a section from Grand Explorations by Digest Group
Publications.  The segment discusses the regions of space in the
Traveller setting, exclusive of the major empires, and deep space.
Also includes a sidebar essay on the Imperial Order of the Arrow.
Keywords: Traveller,MegaTraveller,Science-Fiction,Exploration,RPG,Alien
 ---------------------------------

File: GE.SPACE
File Ready. 7 Bit Text.

Press <RETURN> to skip, <D>ownload, or <Q>uit.


Skipping file ...
 *********************************
Number: 1855  Name: MEGATOPIC31.1
Address: LSP.MEYERS  Date: 900206
Approximate # of Bytes: 70560
Number of Accesses: 0  Library: 10
Description:
This file contains messages 1-50 of MegaTraveller topic 31: The Center for
Solomani Studies.  The messages are unedited.  The choice for range of
messages is based purely on size; the idea was to limit the file size to no
more than 60-70 Kb maximum.  Hope this proves useful for those new to this
topic.
Keywords: Traveller,MegaTraveller,BB Archives
 ---------------------------------

File: MEGATOPIC31.1
is a BINARY File.

Press <RETURN> to skip, <D>ownload, <L>ist, or <Q>uit.


Skipping file ...
 *********************************
Number: 1849  Name: SOLOMANI III
Address: P.CELELLA  Date: 900201
Approximate # of Bytes: 11340
Number of Accesses: 5  Library: 10
Description:
Solomani Contact with the Imperium and the founding of the Confederation
Keywords: Traveller,MegaTraveller,Solomani,MTA
 ---------------------------------

File: SOLOMANI III
File Ready. 7 Bit Text.

Press <RETURN> to skip, <D>ownload, or <Q>uit.


Skipping file ...
 *********************************
Number: 1845  Name: FFW.RULES
Address: LSP.MEYERS  Date: 900127
Approximate # of Bytes: 7560
Number of Accesses: 19  Library: 10
Description:
This file has the rules for the online game of Fifth Frontier War being run
John Meyers.  See Topic 35 for more details.
Keywords: Traveller,MegaTraveller,Fifth Frontier War, FFW
 ---------------------------------

File: FFW.RULES
is a BINARY File.

Press <RETURN> to skip, <D>ownload, <L>ist, or <Q>uit.




- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Givler                        | Q-Link: GregGivler
Analyst - Systems Evaluation Group | CompuServe: Greg Givler 76702,647
Commodore Product Assurance        | GEnie: G.Givler
215-431-9100                       | The NET: givler@cbmvax.commodore.com
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Wild Whores couldn't keep me away!" -- George Francisco
"That's Horses, George" -- Matt Sikes -- Alien Nation --  Fox Broadcasting --
===============================================================================

All opinions and material above is the responsibility of the originator.
Submissions: traveller@dadla.wr.tek.com, or uunet!dadla.wr.tek.com!traveller
Administrator: traveller-request@dadla.wr.tek.com (James Perkins)
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by Tektronix, Inc.

-------- TML Message #967 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 967
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 90 09:42:14 EST
From: (Greg Givler - Product Assurance) givler@cbmvax.commodore.COM
Subject: GENie Files



If there are no objections I will start downloading some of the files this
weekend and will start posting them next week. I shouldn't have to much trouble
I checked last night and as long as I poke my head in the Commodore section
everytime I log on there should not be a problem. Since the Downloading doesn't
cost me anything, I think that I should be the logical choice to do this. If
someone has any objections let me know. 

Also, there is some Copywritten(?) material on there, mostly the UPW listings
of all the Sectors of the Imperium, so you think that it is all right to 
distribute this. I mean technically whoever is running this RoundTable on
GEnie, wont get any money from my downloading the info, as GEnie let's me 
do this Free. So let me know what you think, I will start with the PD stuff
and go from there.

Greg

All opinions and material above is the responsibility of the originator.
Submissions: traveller@dadla.wr.tek.com, or uunet!dadla.wr.tek.com!traveller
Administrator: traveller-request@dadla.wr.tek.com (James Perkins)
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by Tektronix, Inc.

-------- End of TML Messages --------

