Traveller-digest      Friday, January 16 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 001



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: JTAS 2
Re: Tech notes
Re: Lifeboats
Re: Religion Careers
Re: spaceport authority customs
Re: spaceport authority customs
Light Fighter
RE: Traveller-digest V1997 #2242
Re: Tech notes
Re: Metator License
Re: Religion Careers
Re: Tech notes
re: Galangic-Sayat Phrase Books
Calculating Stellar Mass
Re: Tech notes
Starports
Re: Stations/Port/Bases: Plans and Designs
Re: Routine Maintainence
Re: Tech notes

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 21:25:31 +1200
From: frankie@mundens.gen.nz (Frank G. Pitt)
Subject: Re: JTAS 2

In article <1.5.4.32.19980115235640.0074eed8@pop3.netaccess.co.nz>, you wrote:
>Does anybody know where I might get hold of a copy of JTAS 2 (specifically
>the stuff about Victoria)? I've tried all my traveller junkie friends here
>and none of them have a copy.

I haven't got a full version of JTAS2 but I've got copies of
the Victoria stuff, and wasn't it reprinted in the first "Best of"  ?

What info would you like ?

- -- 
Frankie

    

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 05:43:00 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Tech notes

At 02:01 PM 1/16/98 +0100, you wrote:
>>You see, modern powerplants need a certain minimum amount of power
>>*before* you can turn them on. Power to operate the controls, the fuel
>>transport mechanism, etc.
>
>In my universe all fusion plants have built in batteries for three colds
>start attempts, aqfter that no dice in the world would make it start. I
>have a rare entry in my ship encounter tables for trader in need of start
>power - a great way to give players rumors, try hijacking them or exercise
>your favourite Hans Solo clone npc.

Question:  Why in the 11,000 worlds would you turn the power plant off?
Most of them are fueled for a full year, and that fuel is topped of when
you refuel.  Captains would probably turn the pant down to a minimal
"housekeeping" level when in port, but why stress the equipment having to
re-fire the chamber?

The only time I could see turning the palnt off is during annual
maintenence.
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:19:56 -0500
From: "Svenson, Gregory (FL51)" <gsvenson@space.honeywell.com>
Subject: Re: Lifeboats

With all of the discussion of lifeboats I decided to try to design a
minimal one that could be used from a jettison bay with Andrew Akins
spreadsheet. Here is the result:

LB4SS,  class Lifeboat (FF&S v2)				
Designed by Greg Svenson				
				
Statistics				
Tons: 2std ( USL Short Cylinder )		Crew: 0/0	Cargo:
0std (0/0)
Volume: 31m3		Passengers High/Med: 0/0	Cost: 0.173 MCr
Mass (L/C): 5t/4t		Passengers Low: 0	Maintenance
Points: 0
Dimensions: 3.4m x 3.4m x 3.4m		Troops/Science: 0/0	Tech
Level: 12
Size: 6		Frozen Watch: 0(0 group)	
				
Electronics				
Controls: Dynamic, High automation. 2xFltComp (CM:0.45 CP:2.22). No
bridge.			
Communications: 1xRadio (50,000km, 0.02MW). 			
Sensors: 			
Survey/Science: 			
ECM: 			
Signatures: Vis:-1.5, IR:-1.5 (-2.5 at 0MW, -1.5 at 0MW), Act:0.0,
Neu:-2, Grav:-2			
				
Weaponry			Performance	
			0	Jump
			1.0/1.1	Maneuver (/Thruster:0MW)
	 		0.0/0.0	Contra-grav 
	 		n/a	Atmosphere
	 		0	Power (/Fus+:0MW,8,760.0)
	 		0.0	Fuel
	 		0/0/0/0/1	Accomodations 
		 	0	Life Sup. (/Ty:Mn,Gd /'St)
	 		0	G-Comp 
		 	0	ESA
	 		0	Sandcasters
	 		0	Damper Turrets
	 		0	Damper Screen 
	 		0	Meson Screen 
	 		0	Force Field
	 		0	Gravtics
	 		0 [5]	Armor
	 		0	Structure

Features
1xSeat, Restricted

This Lifeboat is designed with one emergency low berth with a capacity for four
passengers or crew members. This lifeboat is intended to be launched from a
jettison bay. There is a single restricted seat for an optional robotic pilot,
however a robotic pilot is not necessary as the lifeboat's second computer can
be a specialized computer that will pilot the boat and operate the radio to
send a distress call. It is designed to operate for a full year. However, if
the engines are shut down after the lifeboat gets away from the disabled mother
ship, the reactor can be switched to operate at a minimal level that allows it
to continue operating for over 5 years.

Greg Svenson
gsvenson@space.honeywell.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:33:58 -0600 (CST)
From: Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com>
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

When creating religions for your game, why use your personal tastes
to determine their doctrine?  Does every organization you create fit
your personal standards?  I would think that religions would run the
whole spectrum from strict fringe cults to new age to very conservative
to completely wacky.  I'd bet that there'd be churches that onl
allowed men, only allowed women, only allowed spacers, etc...

Bolie IV


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 07:14:20 -0800
From: "Edward Swatschek" <edjs@mindlink.net>
Subject: Re: spaceport authority customs

> Date:          Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:22:40 +0100
> From:          anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
> 
> Private citizens of the Imperium was supposed to be able to buy missiles
> for their ships in CT, MT and so on. When TNE came out some wize guy
> decided that x-ray det laser nukes were cool so he decided that the
> missiles were of this kind.
> 
> So in TNE and T4(+) private citizens may own their own cozy x-ray det nukes
> (how that meshes with the Imperial rules of war is a question for the
> listoids that like the TNE/T4 explanation of missiles).

   Has it been stated anywhere that private citizens may own det 
lasers? The IRoW in the Imperial and Regency settings will restrict 
their ownership as always (if the MCr+ a pop pricetag scare 
buyers off).  I suppose private citizens can still get the 
same style missiles that were used in CT/MT, but in TNE it was 
decided those missiles were useless in space combat.


- --
Edward Swatschek  *  edjs@bitslayer.net
                     edjs@mindlink.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 06:22:44 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: spaceport authority customs

At 02:22 PM 1/16/98 +0100, you wrote:
>>Then you must be nervous about the US and China. As well as all the
>>other members of the "nuclear club". And the folks with nerve gas, and
>>bio weapons.
>
>Private citizens of the Imperium was supposed to be able to buy missiles
>for their ships in CT, MT and so on. When TNE came out some wize guy
>decided that x-ray det laser nukes were cool so he decided that the
>missiles were of this kind.
>
>So in TNE and T4(+) private citizens may own their own cozy x-ray det nukes
>(how that meshes with the Imperial rules of war is a question for the
>listoids that like the TNE/T4 explanation of missiles).

Simple.  I made a ruling that private citizens couldn't own det-nukes, and
had to have their lasers tuned in the FUV.

>AS far as I know US and Chinese citizens are NOT allowed to own nukes,
>nerve gas etc. The right to bear arms of the US does not allow you to own
>nukes does it? (I'm shure some gun geeks out there think it does but...).

The Supreme Court ruled over fifty years ago that "weapons of mass
destruction" were not covered by the Second Admendant.
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:31:39 -0500
From: "Svenson, Gregory (FL51)" <gsvenson@space.honeywell.com>
Subject: Light Fighter

I made a stab at creating the Light Fighter from the T4 Starships book
using FFS2. I used Andrew Akins spreadsheet (vsn. 1.6) to do the design.
Here is the result. Your comments and suggestions for improvements are
greatly appreciated.

Light Fighter, Sylean class Light Fighter (FF&S v2)

Designed by Greg Svenson				
				
Statistics				
Tons: 10std ( AF Wedge Hypersonic )	Crew: 1/1	Cargo: 0std (0/0
/Pod:1x1std)
Volume: 140m3		Passengers High/Med: 0/0	Cost: 20.089 MCr
Mass (L/C): 168t/143t		Passengers Low: 0	Maintenance
Points: 20
Dimensions: 16.2m x 11.1m x 4.6m	Troops/Science: 0/0	Tech
Level: 12
Size: 7		Frozen Watch: 0(0 group)	
				
Electronics				
Controls: Dynamic, High automation. 2xFltComp (CM:0.4 CP:2.5). Terrain
following
          sensors (TF:480, NOE:160). No bridge.
Communications: 1xRadio (50,000km, 0.02MW). 1xLaser (1,000AU, 0.00MW).
Sensors: 1xFld PEMS (12.5 [1.6mkm] Fld, 0.00MW). 1xFld AEMS (11 [.16mkm]
Fld,
         0.25MW). 1xLIDAR (13.5 [50kkm], 0.10MW).
Survey/Science:
ECM:
Signatures: Vis:-1.5, IR:-1.0 (-1.0 at 22MW, -1.0 at 4MW), Act:-0.5,
Neu:-2, Grav:-1			
				
Weaponry
1xFixed Laser (+0) 1/2-0-0-0 [1,100/20-10-5-2] (LR)

Performance
		0	Jump
		5.1/6.0	Maneuver (/Thruster:21MW)
		0.0/0.0	Contra-grav 
3,965kph/4,249kph	Atmosphere (/Crus:2,974kph/3,187kph)
		8	Power (/Fus+:39MW,168.0)
		0.0	Fuel
		0/0/0/0/0	Accomodations 
		1	Life Sup. (/Ty:St,Nm /'St)
		2	G-Comp 
		0	ESA
		0	Sandcasters
		0	Damper Turrets
		0	Damper Screen 
		0	Meson Screen 
		0	Force Field
		0	Gravtics
		0 [20]	Armor
		2	Structure
				
Features
1xAirlock
1xstorage(0.28std ea.)
				
Crew Details
1xMnvr.

The major difference is that I put a 1 ton weapons pod on it. There is
no extra power to operate weapons in the weapons pod. So, it has to be
self contained. If the weapons pod is not used you can take advantage of
the full (unloaded performance) of the design. 

I was not able to design it for 18 MCr without sacrificing the sensors
and communications which I felt was unacceptable. This design costs
20.089 MCr which I feel is pretty close to the Starships version...

Greg Svenson
gsvenson@space.honeywell.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:16:22 -0600
From: Robert Dittrich <dittrich@conceptserv.com>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1997 #2242

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>Whilst possible for a Church of England Archbishop or Chief Rabbi (as
>occurs in UK)
>and for other religions, I thought that the Catholic Church had a =
specific
>rule against priests holding positions of secular power.

I think history clearly shows that, rule or no rule, the Catholic Church =
doesn't seem to have much of a *problem* holding secular power, whether =
it be official or unofficial.

- - Rob Dittrich

In honor of Microsoft, I will now list their virtues:
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:03:54 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Tech notes

At out power house we use a "Black Start" generator, gasoline poweres AC
system that provides minimuim power for contorls and electronics needed to
bring the boilers and Gas Turbine online.

Back in the '50-60's (when the boilers were still fired largely by hand) a
steam turbine driven generator was put on line first to provide power to
lighting and switch gear operators.

NOTHING is more scary than being in the middle of a power plant and
listening to the generators wind down as the lights go out! This happened
SEVERAL times back inthemid-80 to our plant, when we made the converson over
to computer/DCS controls, until they worked the program and interface bugs
out

Re: Trav

Maybe an more archaic design emergency generator is used, perhaps tied
through a small HePLAR? Wasn' t that the one that generated power as well?
(Sorry don't have my books available).

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Friday, January 16, 1998 7:30 AM
Subject: Tech notes


<SNIP>
>You see, modern powerplants need a certain minimum amount of power
>*before* you can turn them on. Power to operate the controls, the fuel
>transport mechanism, etc.
>
>--
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:06:18 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Metator License

>>Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:29:35 -0500

>>From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
>>Subject: Metator License
>>
>>Much to my disappointment, Metator no longer works.  Is this becaus its
>>license was only for "1997"?


Yes.  I am _still_ awaiting a sign of interest from you-know-who.  

Official contact from IG, or a shareware payment from someone*, will
reactivate my interest (and the software).


* Seeing as IG still has over $80 of my money, I need _some_ way of recouping.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:43:17 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

>Although I certainly don't want to get into an argument about 'real-world'
>religion with anyone on the list [trust me, even if you're agnostic, you
would
>come to loathe me, and vice versa, - I should probably call myself militant
>fundamentalist aethiest to give you an idea of the strength of my non-
beliefs], I
>do wonder how you would defend the idea of a male-only clergy for the
>gender-neutral Traveller setting.  Not flame trollig here, I sincerely
welcome any
>good reasons to do something such as you suggest. However, since I haven't
met a
>woman who's even heard of Traveller since  Mini-Con in Joplin, Missouri, USA,
>around 1977-78 (which was my introduction to the little black books). gender
>discriminatinon hasn't really been an issue for me or my players.  Besides,
if
>there are girls around, the last thing we were going to do was play
Traveller.
>Making complete asses of ourselves was much more of a priority.

I have a female player in my current Traveller campaign, so there is at least
one more out there :)  In fact, she is an avid role-player and had been in the
TNE campaign I ran a few years back.  Although the highest female/male ratio
for playing came when we were playing the "dark and weird" type games...  Kult
and Vampire.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:34:12 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Tech notes

Douglas E. Berry wrote:

> Question:  Why in the 11,000 worlds would you turn the power plant off?
> Most of them are fueled for a full year, and that fuel is topped of when
> you refuel.  Captains would probably turn the pant down to a minimal
> "housekeeping" level when in port, but why stress the equipment having to
> re-fire the chamber?
>

Well, the CT and MT rules specify that a full load of fuel keeps the power
plant going for a month. The MT rules also give tasks for cold versus hot
starts to the power plant, and state that a cold start is necessary (IIRC)
after a week in port. This seems to imply that it is standard procedure to
power down the ship if you're hanging around port longer than a week or so.

Perhaps there is no technical reason why you should have to turn it off. Maybe
it's just a case of being standard starport regulations. Maybe citizens at
large starports are nervous about having hundreds of nuclear power plants
active in one location.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:27:25 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Galangic-Sayat Phrase Books

Andy Slack wrote:

>"You rotten swines, you have deaded me!" I laughed so much at this I banged
>my head on the desk. (No, not on purpose - my elbow slipped.)

Andy - I'm sorry, but that just won't do. The *correct TML* response to an
amusing post is to nasally spray liquid (preferably fizzy) over the
keyboard and monitor. ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:25:27 -0500
From: "Eric Freitas" <edf@atlantic.net>
Subject: Calculating Stellar Mass

I know that someone out there must know how to do this, so I thought I'd
ask.
How do you calculate the mass of a star when all you know about it is it's
luminosity and color temperature?  I know that you can calculate the surface
area
of the star, and from there the radius using the Stefan-Boltzmann Law.  I
cannot seem
to find any way to calculate the mass, even though I would think that you
could do it
if you knew it's spectrum, luminosity, and radius.

Thanks,

    Eric F.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:30:52 -0600 (CST)
From: Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com>
Subject: Re: Tech notes

On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Anders Backman wrote:
> In my universe all fusion plants have built in batteries for three colds
> start attempts, aqfter that no dice in the world would make it start. I
> have a rare entry in my ship encounter tables for trader in need of start
> power - a great way to give players rumors, try hijacking them or exercise
> your favourite Hans Solo clone npc.

What about a rechargeable batter?  This is what cars do today... seems
like that far in the future the same kind of thing would be available.

Bolie IV



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:17:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Tony Zbaraschuk <tonyz@eskimo.com>
Subject: Starports

One important thing to consider:

Major worlds will have more than one starport facility.  Sylea, with
billions of people, will probably need at least several dozen, and
more likely several hundred, starports, shuttle pads, etc.  How many
ports and "International Airports" does the U.S. have?  And the U.S.
is merely a pop 8, tech 8 country, relatively small beans compared to
a pop A, tech C economy...

There will likely be differences among the starports too.  Sylea
Down Capital will be a plush, luxurious mostly-passenger terminal.
Sylea Down South Polar will be a tourist shuttle pad.  Sylea Down
Kargrash will be a heavy-duty industry/freight transfer point...

Of course, this level of detail _probably_ isn't necessary except
on fairly high-pop high-tech worlds that are extensively developed
for campaign purposes, but it should at least be mentioned in
the rulebook.


Tony Z

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:06:16 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Stations/Port/Bases: Plans and Designs

>One not so minor detail. since they will be growing in 3d, it may not
>be that *easy* to remove the "old" sections, since they'll tend to be
>in the *middle* surrounded by stuff.

Like Khan, I am a two-dimensional thinker.  Although in this case, I have more
of a reason then just having a 20th century mind.  Simplicity.  I tend to make
wider sprawling devices rather then build them in 3-dimensions.  Its easier
for me to deal with when drawing on graph paper.

The system I had devised for space stations in my sector of space was this:
There are two different main models (produced by General and Ling).  One
consists of straight segments with artificial gravity generators.  These can
be built into a lattice work.  There are living quarters, bio-bubbles, life
support segments, and generator segments.  There are some variations, but all
will fit into each other.  Slightly more power hungry due to the artificial
gravity, but the ease of linking them together like legos makes it simpler to
use them.  The result of putting these pieces together is a sort of giant
human habitrail, not a solid mass ala DS9 or Babylon 5.

The other form doesn't include artificial gravity, and is sold to those
cultures who don't have a high-enough tech level to maintain them in the long
run, or to those who don't want to spend the extra cash on AG generators and
the extra power needed.  These are curved, and a minimum number are needed to
make a circle, although "dummy" packages are sold to balance the whole thing
out if needed.  Once a circle is complete, additional segments could be added
next to the original segments, making a wider track.  Power and storage are
kept in the center.

The logistics of making a single large station and moving it in a j-tender
just seems best left to the Imperial navy and the big megacorporations.

I do like the Babylon 5 idea of having a low rent district, but which would be
a better idea from the station-owner's point of view:  having extra space and
renting it to undesirables who could steal power that is needed for the other
functions of the ship (such as commerce, weapons bays, life support for the
rest of the ship), or removing the segments and selling them to another group
or transferring them to another space station.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:18:14 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Routine Maintainence

One idea I kicked around in this respect is a modular ship composed of a
Non-streamlined J-drive component and several shuttle designs, one basically
a fuel tank with refining and scoops, another a passenger/living quaters/ a
third for cargo. Each can perform independantly or, when linked to the
J-dive module, act as a starship. Crews live on the LQ shuttle and only
vistit the others as the need arrives. The idea was to have a trader that
could  "trade" shuttles/crews/cargo/fuel at the jump limit with pre-prepared
replacements, for a faster turn around time.

I dropped the idea because it seemed too cumbersome... Maybe the idea has
some merit after. I'll have to pull out the papers and look at them in FF&S2
terms...

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Friday, January 16, 1998 7:34 AM
Subject: Re: Routine Maintainence


>Richard Flores posted:
>
>>Leonard Erickson said:
>>>You *could* design ships where the J-Drive was in a sort of "pod" that
>>>bolts onto the ship, and has pre-placed connectors. But that makes the
>>>design more expensive. And you need to have the right sort of "pod"
>>>available. I'd be willing to bet that designing the drive that way
>>>makes it *harder* to do the "maintenance" on once you get it removed
>>>from the ship. ...
>>
>>Probably not.  If anything it would make it less because once removed, it
>>would be totally accessable.
>>
>>> ... So you'd be paying for *increased* maintenance costs,
>>>*plus* the cost of labor and equipment for swapping the drive pod
>>>*plus* the capital costs of keeping drive pods around so that they'll
>>>be available for swapping.
>>>
>>>In short, you could save time that way, but it'd $cost$. As usual in
>>>the real world, saving time takes money.
>>
>>This is called a modular vehicle.  "A vehicle designed to have large,
>>easily replaceable chunks will have double the structure cost and
>>mass. In addition each module will suffer a 10% volume penalty and
>>cost 50% more than normal.  That is the total volume of the
>>components is increased by 10%, and their total cost is increased
>>by 50%.  These disadvantages are offset by the ability to replace
>>modules in modules in short order (25% of the equivalent "repair"
>>time) to meet a given need." (CSC p 55)
>
>Following disposable contact lenses, we now get disposable jump drives?
>
>Sign up with Stickemin and Swapem, LIC and you can exchange that jump
>module at any class A starport. No more need for that irritating, expensive
>maintenance of your jump drive, just use it, and swap it. And for a little
>extra take our maintenance plus contract, where we take over the
>maintenance of you fusion plant, lanthanum grid and manuever drives.."
>
>Dom
>
>------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
>"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
>   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost"
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:31:05 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tech notes

On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Erwin Fritz wrote:
> 
> Perhaps there is no technical reason why you should have to turn it off. Maybe
> it's just a case of being standard starport regulations. Maybe citizens at
> large starports are nervous about having hundreds of nuclear power plants
> active in one location.

Oh, puleeeze! At the risk of sounding strident, Traveller is NOT 1998 with
starships!!! At this point those citizens have been living with small,
often portable fusion power sources for _thousands_ of years. Being
'Nervous' about having working fusion plants around would be like us being
'nervous' about having all that dangerous electricity in our house on the 
grounds that it might leap out of it's wires and strike us when we're not 
looking.

More than likely starships are powered down to some minimal level, meaning
you have to 'warm start' the systems when in port. That would be more
likely due to the owners not wanting the thing stolen. I see a ship with a
full-on power plant as akin to a car with its engine running; on minimal
power akin to a car with the ignition off, and fully shut down like a car
with it's battery dead or removed. Each requires a different level of
effort to get the thing moving. Fully shut down would be rare, ordinarily
only done for maintenence reasons. 

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Friday, January 16 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 002



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Tech notes
Re: Tech notes
Re: spaceport authority customs
Re: Tech notes
Re: spaceport authority customs
Re: Religion Careers
Re: Starports
RE: The Family Grav-Car: Infrasystem Requirements
PBEM Traveller Game
Women playing Traveller (was RE: Religion Careers)
Re: Lifeboats
Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography
Re: Religion Careers
Re: Tech notes
Re: Religion Careers
AD&D and "controversial issues"
Re: Religion Careers
Re: Fall of RoM
Re: Religion Careers
Re: Prisoner - was Sayat conspiracy

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:48:54 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Tech notes

Douglas E. Berry wrote: Question:  Why in the 11,000 worlds would you turn the
power plant off?

> Most of them are fueled for a full year, and that fuel is topped of when
> you refuel.  Captains would probably turn the pant down to a minimal
> "housekeeping" level when in port, but why stress the equipment having to
> re-fire the chamber?
>
> The only time I could see turning the palnt off is during annual
> maintenence.
> --

What else do you come up with when the Engineer throws a spectacular failure?  I
use house rules that reduce the chance of misjump if you get successful taks
resolution from Engineering, Astrogation and Piloting.

douglas


- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:17:26 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tech notes

If you're 'running silent, running deep' you'ld probably want to turn the
pp off to get those emissions down.

Of course, this brings up exactly _who_ would be hiding out like that, and
why you would want to stop and give them a jump ;-)

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Douglas E. Berry wrote:

> At 02:01 PM 1/16/98 +0100, you wrote:
> >>You see, modern powerplants need a certain minimum amount of power
> >>*before* you can turn them on. Power to operate the controls, the fuel
> >>transport mechanism, etc.
> >
> >In my universe all fusion plants have built in batteries for three colds
> >start attempts, aqfter that no dice in the world would make it start. I
> >have a rare entry in my ship encounter tables for trader in need of start
> >power - a great way to give players rumors, try hijacking them or exercise
> >your favourite Hans Solo clone npc.
> 
> Question:  Why in the 11,000 worlds would you turn the power plant off?
> Most of them are fueled for a full year, and that fuel is topped of when
> you refuel.  Captains would probably turn the pant down to a minimal
> "housekeeping" level when in port, but why stress the equipment having to
> re-fire the chamber?
> 
> The only time I could see turning the palnt off is during annual
> maintenence.
> --
> 
> +~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
> | Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
> |      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
> |------------------------------------------|
> | "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
> | do it for the love of it, then you do it |
> | for a few friends, and finally you do it |
> | for the money."               -- Moliere |
> +~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
> 
> 
>   
> 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:41:38 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: spaceport authority customs

Anders Backman wrote:

> >Then you must be nervous about the US and China. As well as all the
> >other members of the "nuclear club". And the folks with nerve gas, and
> >bio weapons.
>
> Private citizens of the Imperium was supposed to be able to buy missiles
> for their ships in CT, MT and so on. When TNE came out some wize guy
> decided that x-ray det laser nukes were cool so he decided that the
> missiles were of this kind.
>
> So in TNE and T4(+) private citizens may own their own cozy x-ray det nukes
> (how that meshes with the Imperial rules of war is a question for the
> listoids that like the TNE/T4 explanation of missiles).
>
> AS far as I know US and Chinese citizens are NOT allowed to own nukes,
> nerve gas etc. The right to bear arms of the US does not allow you to own
> nukes does it? (I'm shure some gun geeks out there think it does but...).
>
> /Anders Backman
> Aniware AB
> anders.backman@aniware.se

 In CT and MT, conventional missiles were the rule.  In TNE (FFS), it was
pointed out that there is a point at which lasers (being speed of light
weapons) acting defensively against significantly slower weapons (missiles) can
guarantee destruction.  This point is a significant distance from the target.

I tend to agree with that position.  Unless you overwhelm a target with a _lot_
of targets or targeting interference, it should not be possible to slip a
missile in past a properly configured defensive posture and achieve skin
contact.

The alternative were laser head missiles (most popularly, the X-ray laser).
These go off quite some distance from the target and pump out lasers in a
variety of directions... in the traveller world they are directed a bit better
than my understanding of physics says is possible!  :)

My take on these missiles is this: Stand off detonation (SOD) missiles are the
standard for space to space combat.  Nuclear (X-Ray) missiles, however, are the
province of the Imperial Navy _only_.  I'm a firm believer in this being the
line that the Imperium draws with weaponry.  City lifters are the province of
the military and a very, very few mercenary companies.  Civilians can buy SOD
missiles, but they use a chemical laser warhead which only generates 1 beam.
(i.e. 1 point of damage)

(sigh) personally, I liked it in the CT days - if you could get that missile hit
in, it could do up to 6 points of damage - real justification for a merchant to
have at least one missile tube in his turret, even though it cost 25 Kcr a
throw.  In T4, they just don't do that kind of damage.

- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:02:39 -0500
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com>
Subject: Re: Tech notes

First, I'd like to thank MPGN for calling an end to 1997, finally.
(Today the first digest tagged '1998' appeared in the archive
for those who don't read TML off of the FTP archive like I do)

"Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net> wrote:
> Question:  Why in the 11,000 worlds would you turn the power plant off?

"Running doggo" - presumably even at "warm start" levels the plant puts
out a fair amount of neutrinos that could be detected. Maybe Joe
LowInt dropped a cheeseburger in the fuel intake. Who knows? Stuff 
happens.

> Most of them are fueled for a full year, and that fuel is topped of when
> you refuel.  Captains would probably turn the pant down to a minimal
> "housekeeping" level when in port, but why stress the equipment having to
> re-fire the chamber?

Well, heck, a year of fuel is a lot, but who knows - it _could_
run out of fuel. It's a saftey thing, or, more likely, a "checklist
item" - no one ever uses it, but you can't sell a fusion generator
without one (restart batteries that is).

> The only time I could see turning the palnt off is during annual
> maintenence.

Which is more than often enough to warrant a mechanism to get the thing
restarted. Imagine all those UPS units for computers out there that
get used maybe once a decade - that kind of peace of mind is a big
thing for a lot of people.

Ethan

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:58:10 -0500
From: hal@buffnet.net
Subject: Re: spaceport authority customs

>Then you must be nervous about the US and China. As well as all the
>other members of the "nuclear club". And the folks with nerve gas, and
>bio weapons.
>
>-- 
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)

Not as nervous as Isreal is, you can be sure!
  But seriously, the main difference here, is that the "attacks" have not
occurred.  I would be willing to be, that I am not the only GM who has had
to deal with this kind of behavior before...  Wanna bet?
  Essentially put, nuclear warheads in civilian hands would make most
people nervous...  Granted, TNE encourages the mindset that civilization
has crumbled and central authorities are now no longer able to maintain
planetary defenses, but even so, protocols should be emplaced to deal with
the possibility.  One rude and nasty thing an invading planet can pull over
an unsuspecting planet, is to use civilian 
"Q-SHIPS" to start the attack without warning...

     Hal

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:21:21 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

SemoFetus wrote:

> >discriminatinon hasn't really been an issue for me or my players.  Besides,
> if
> >there are girls around, the last thing we were going to do was play
> Traveller.
> >Making complete asses of ourselves was much more of a priority.
>
> I have a female player in my current Traveller campaign, so there is at least
> one more out there :)  In fact, she is an avid role-player and had been in the
> TNE campaign I ran a few years back.  Although the highest female/male ratio
> for playing came when we were playing the "dark and weird" type games...  Kult
> and Vampire.
>

I win! I have TWO women in my group. My wife plays an ex-Marine. The other woman
plays TWO characters, an ex-merchant and an ex-Marine.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:19:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert N Harris <rh1i+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Starports

Excerpts from mail.TML: 16-Jan-98 Starports by Tony Zbaraschuk@eskimo.c 
> Major worlds will have more than one starport facility.  Sylea, with
> billions of people, will probably need at least several dozen, and
> more likely several hundred, starports, shuttle pads, etc.  How many
> ports and "International Airports" does the U.S. have?  And the U.S.
> is merely a pop 8, tech 8 country, relatively small beans compared to
> a pop A, tech C economy...

There were rules for this...

In the World Builders Handbook, or whatever it was called during MT
rules, by DGP associated several starports with major cities.

This was carried out in Vilani & Vargr.

So a few of Vland's major cities each had an A level starport.

I can't remember the particulars as my books are at home and I am at work.

Rob Harris



- ----------------------------------
Rob Harris
Center for Cognitive Brain Imaging
Dept. of Psychology, CMU
268-5210
rh1i+@andrew.cmu.edu 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 20:54:49 -0000
From: Alex Ferrie <daishan@malkier.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RE: The Family Grav-Car: Infrasystem Requirements

I've seen something like this in a Harry Harrison series ( the "To the Stars" 
series,if you're interested). The autopilot system there was used for ground 
vehicles ( if I remember there was no CG available). What the books describe is 
a totalitarian Earth Govt. which restricts the freedoms of the populace using 
the "Trust us, we know what's best" approach. Anyway, to get back to the 
subject, the autopilot in these books only engaged when the vehicle's onboard 
computer decided that the driver was in no fit state to control the vehicle 
safely - i.e. when to much alchohol had been consumed.
	Since autopiloting a vehicle should not be a difficult task for a computer 
designed by a society sufficiently advanced to have contragrav, why not assume 
that the vehicles have a built-in safety system which takes over when the pilot 
( either through carelessness,lack of skill, or intoxication) places it and any 
other neighbouring vehicles in danger.

Alex Ferrie

On 15 January 1998 21:06, Michael Kent [SMTP:mkent@atlantic.net] wrote:
> Certain comments from the recent TML traffic regarding warehouses
> started me thinking.
>
> >> Which brings up another point...are insystem craft (shuttles, etc)
> >> required to have transponders the same as jump ships?
> >
> >Yep. For the same reason all commercial aircraft have them (and private
> >aircraft would too if the FAA had its way). It's pretty much a
> >requirement for traffic control.
>
> Consider the situation where a world's TL is high enough where it's
> reasonable that the average person/family has a grav vehicle as their
> 'family car'.
>
> You can immediately see that the air traffic control problems would be
> roughly equivalent to everyone in today's US having a personal VTOL
> aircraft or helicopter as their primary means of transportation.
>
> My contention is that the only practical way for a society to allow
> personal grav vehicles is if they are under automated control of a
> central traffic grid, with mid-air 'traffic lanes'.  For a government to
> allow otherwise is to accept that there are crashed grav vehicles
> raining down from the sky onto the buildings and pedestrians below, on a
> frequent basis.  Even given a collision-avoidance system in the grav
> vehicles, you must still have traffic lanes, and only a centralized
> system could enforce those.
>
> I think in my game I'm going to have as background material that all
> grav vehicles operating on civilized worlds MUST have provisions for
> automated control, and unless specially-licensed (police, fire, etc.),
> must always be under automated control.
>
> This means, of course, that such automation must be standard equipment
> on all grav vehicles.  It also means that given such automation, the
> only skill needed to operate one under normal conditions would be 'Grav
> Vehicle-0'.  Get in, punch in your destination, and sit back.  Welcome
> to the friendly skys of Traveller.
>
> Comments?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:00:25 -0800
From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <schoon@aimnet.com>
Subject: PBEM Traveller Game

Hi all,

The information to sign up can be found at:
http://www.pbem.com
....in their new games, science fiction category.


Thanx,
Schoon

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:29:45 -0600
From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com>
Subject: Women playing Traveller (was RE: Religion Careers)

On Friday, 16 January 1998 13:21, Erwin Fritz [SMTP:efritz@glja.com]
wrote:
> SemoFetus wrote:
> 
> > I have a female player in my current Traveller campaign, so there is at
> > least
> > one more out there :)  In fact, she is an avid role-player and had been
> > in the
> > TNE campaign I ran a few years back.  Although the highest female/male
> > ratio for playing came when we were playing the "dark and weird" type
> > games...  Kult and Vampire.
> >
> 
> I win! I have TWO women in my group. My wife plays an ex-Marine. The
> other woman plays TWO characters, an ex-merchant and an ex-Marine.

Um... I had three up til a couple of months back.  Three women, three
men, and me (a male).  Unfortunately, one of the women had to drop out
of the campaign (family problems), but the other two are still there.
One is ex-Navy, the other is a Battledress trained Marine.  (Course, one
is my wife, and I *met* her playing Traveller)

I find that quite a few women like Traveller, usually more so than a
certain 'standard fantasy game.'  But, then again, I've never had a
problem with my players using unnecessary violence (I ran a campaign for
two years that had only *one* shot fired from a body pistol).
*Necessary* violence, though, is another thing.


- -Vanya                                                      UPP-8D9B85
Traveller ---------------- Science Fiction Adventure in the Far Future
Meyers-Briggs personality type:ENTJ              | vanya@partyline.net
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with."     | dmoody@bridge.com
 ----------------------- The Future is in Beta -----------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 21:51:41 GMT
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Lifeboats

T4 Starships, p6, states that you need (for Imperial registered ships) one
rescue ball for each four passengers or crew.  There was a CT lifeboat detailed
in one of the supplements (Traders & Gunboats?) which again stated, if I recall
correctly, that lifeboats were mandatory.

I do not recall any CT/MT/TNE/T4 ship design sequence that included these
expensive items.

Simon

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 21:51:43 GMT
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography

Can you remind me of the WHite Dwarf issue number that had the starport maps in?

thanks,

Simon

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:49:11 EST
From: TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

>You see, this is only ahint of the potential troubles I was hinting at in my
>orignial post.  As an ex-catholic, vehemently 'devout' aethiest, but
nonetheless
>appreciative of the Catholic culutre and its ability to preserve, if not
accept
>and incorporate knowledge. I wouldn't accept such a religion in my campaign
that
>excluded women without a damn good reason.  Not being able to coneceive of
>such a
>reason, you guessed it, equal opportunity.

   Well equal opportunity and democratic principles in general don't apply to
matters of faith.  By that logic, one could just say that God has no right to
put people in heaven or hell and it should be done by a jury of your peers. :
)  Of course, such logic would probably lead to atheism anyways.
   
>
>Although I certainly don't want to get into an argument about 'real-world'
>religion with anyone on the list [trust me, even if you're agnostic, you
would
>come to loathe me, and vice versa, - I should probably call myself militant
>fundamentalist aethiest to give you an idea of the strength of my non-
beliefs], I
>do wonder how you would defend the idea of a male-only clergy for the
>gender-neutral Traveller setting.  

Because something is male-only wouldn't make it bad.  Just as a female-only
orginization wouldn't be bad just because of that.  It could be, but isn't
necessarily so.   Is it right that the Third Imperium will never support (in
its current form) a non-human as Emperor?  I don't think that's necessarily
bad.  You being human just might not feel properly represented by an alien
Emperor.  We then get into the humans in funny suits stuff because aliens are
probably...  alien and only understandable by placing human attributes on
them.

>Not flame trollig here, 

none here either.

>I sincerely welcome any good reasons to do something such as you suggest.
>However, since I haven't met a woman who's even heard of Traveller since
Mini->Con in Joplin, Missouri, USA,around 1977-78 (which was my introduction
to the >little black books). gender discriminatinon hasn't really been an
issue for me or >my players.  Besides, if there are girls around, the last
thing we were going to do >was play Traveller. Making complete asses of
ourselves was much more of a >priority.
>

Well I've 3 total femal players.  1 currently compared to about 25 total male
players and 5 males currently.  Gender discrimination has never come up.  

>Rambling too much.

me too. : )

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:31:37 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Tech notes

Bruce Johnson wrote:

> On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Erwin Fritz wrote:
> >
> > Perhaps there is no technical reason why you should have to turn it off. Maybe
> > it's just a case of being standard starport regulations. Maybe citizens at
> > large starports are nervous about having hundreds of nuclear power plants
> > active in one location.
>

I guess when I wrote the above I should have explained my thoughts better.

> Oh, puleeeze! At the risk of sounding strident, Traveller is NOT 1998 with
> starships!!! At this point those citizens have been living with small,
> often portable fusion power sources for _thousands_ of years. Being
> 'Nervous' about having working fusion plants around would be like us being
> 'nervous' about having all that dangerous electricity in our house on the
> grounds that it might leap out of it's wires and strike us when we're not
> looking.
>

I totally agree. I was trying to think of a reason that the MT rules say that, after
a week in port, a cold start is necessary. The task is there; I was just trying to
come up with a good reason for it. The reason I gave above is pretty weak, as you
point out, but I'm still stumped as to why the cold start is there in the first
place.

Of course, the rule could just be ignored ...

> More than likely starships are powered down to some minimal level, meaning
> you have to 'warm start' the systems when in port. That would be more
> likely due to the owners not wanting the thing stolen. I see a ship with a
> full-on power plant as akin to a car with its engine running; on minimal
> power akin to a car with the ignition off, and fully shut down like a car
> with it's battery dead or removed. Each requires a different level of
> effort to get the thing moving. Fully shut down would be rare, ordinarily
> only done for maintenence reasons.
>

In the 20th century, firing up a nuclear reactor is a big deal, involving a lot of
work. In Traveller times, the opposite must be true, or there wouldn't be so many
reactors (i.e. power plants) around. Perhaps Imperial technology allows a quick and
easy cold start.

If so, then cold starts would become routine after a few days in port. Why keep the
engine idling when nobody's on board?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:38:44 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

>I win! I have TWO women in my group. My wife plays an ex-Marine. The other
>woman
>plays TWO characters, an ex-merchant and an ex-Marine.

Hey, I wasn't trying to win, I was just pointing out that there is more then
one woman who has heard of Trav :)

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:49:12 EST
From: TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
Subject: AD&D and "controversial issues"

From what I understand, WotC has stated that they've revised TSRs stance on
such matters ("Code of Ethics?" or something like that).  For instance, outer
planar denizens are going to be referred to as demons and devils and daemons
again.  I can't remember if alcohol and/or sex or anything else was mentioned.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:12:12 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

From: Phil Kitching <PhilK@btinternet.com>
Date: Friday, January 16, 1998 6:29 AM


>>Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 16:53:27 -0500
>>From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
>
>>
>>>Has anyone ever developed a religion career for traveller?
>>>
>>[snip]
>>I have a picture of the Catholic Church in the Third Imperium exerting all
>>its old influence and power.  I especially like the image of Cardinal as
>>Subsector Marquis, regal in her bright red robes.
>>
>>I hadn't though of it as a Player tool, only as background.
>>
>Not the Catholic Church, surely
>
>Whilst possible for a Church of England Archbishop or Chief Rabbi (as
>occurs in UK)
>and for other religions, I thought that the Catholic Church had a specific
>rule against priests holding positions of secular power.
>
>Thus the church wasn't a calling for the first son of a family.

Don't forget, it is this very first son to the family business, second son
to the church rule that allow the CC to attach most of it's wealth.  Second
son goes into the clergy.  First son goes to war and dies childless.  Second
son inherits.  Naturally being a good churchman, he gives the property,
business or whatever he inherits to the church.

Or worse still, is questioned^ by the Inquisition and is found guilty or
dies during interrogation^^.  For the most part, these types of verdicts
(which were actually quite rare) were just, however; there were certain
unscrupulous Inquisitors (Remember the mention of Rogues as a possible
character subset?) who did arrange to have Inquisition on the brothers of
truly pious priests, just to get control of the lands, businesses, etc. they
had.  They usually managed to see to it that certain relatives of their own
(even bastard son's) got a very good deal on some of said properties.

Disclaimer: The preceding is a report of historical facts and not an attempt
to defame the Catholic Church, it's current leaders or any of it's true
adherents anywhere or anytime.

     ^See, I refrained from making a little joke by using the word
"questioned" rather than the phrase "persecuted (excuse me, I mean
prosecuted)".  It was hard, but I didn't do it.

     ^^On a more serious note:  Contrary to popular opinion, most
Inquisitors were genuine men of God.  And did not prosecute the cases in the
manner most people think of when the term "Inquisition" is used.
_______________

I must be Travelling,

Richard
_______________

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:39:46 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Fall of RoM

Ian or Katts wrote:
> 
> >From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
> >Subject: The Fall of the Rule Of Man, some questions and ideas
[snip]

> Aliens modules), this was more-or-less what happened with the Darrians, the
> Sword Worlders and the area that later became the Julian [snip]
> yeah, I know the Darrians made TL16, but then they blew up their sun by
> accident and things went downhill for a long while). [snip]
> >of the ROM? Is there anyone else out there working in this millieu? [snip]

No wonder I can't find my home town. I never knew there was a Alien
Module describing the Darrians. If anyone has a copy, could you please
send a capsule report of same, or advise how I could get a copy.

Many thanks in advance,

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:20:03 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Erwin Fritz wrote:

> 
> I win! I have TWO women in my group. My wife plays an ex-Marine. The other woman
> plays TWO characters, an ex-merchant and an ex-Marine.
> 
> 

You too, huh...MY wife always goes for those ex-marine characters, too.
Invariably they're NCO's named Mom with big guns and an attitude. 

"Mom says to eat your vegetables!" 

"But I don't want to!"

KA-WHOOM
"Don't make me fire my PGMP again, young man!"

;-)

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 98 16:19:51 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Prisoner - was Sayat conspiracy

On 01/16/98 at 04:10 AM,  "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net> said:

>>>>         "Who is number one?"
 
>>>>         "You are, number 6."

>>>You've got to be kidding me?  All these years and the answer was under my
>>>nose?!!!

>>Ah, come on!  You mean you *didn't* know?  I thought the last episode
>>completely cleared up who was number 1..I know it did, in fact.

>Not so fast!  Yes he unmasked himself, but when he returned to London, the
>door to his flat opened itself to admit the Butler!  Also, the endof the
>series was a reply of the opening credits.. Is Number 6 free? Or is fredom
>an illusion that he can now see through?

Exactly!  It completely cleared up who was number 1, it didn't clear up
what was going on.  ;-> Was it an alligory?  Was it a drug induced
hallusination?  Was it a mental delusion?  Was it a simple cop out by the
writers who couldn't figure out how to end the series?  Whatever it was,
was in the mind of the beholder, and a *real* gas!

>>You know, I really wish I'd had a VCR when The Prisoner was on the air. I'd
>>have loved to have it on tape..and I know it can be purchased, I'm just
>>*much* too cheap for that.  ;->

>I was a volunteer at the local PBS station the last time they ran The
>Prisoner.  

Our PBS station is even cheaper than I am.  If they have to pay for
something they are *loath* to do it.  IAC, my fond memories of The Prisoner
(like of the original StarTrek) are probably much better than the reality.
;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #2
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Friday, January 16 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 003



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Religion Careers
Re: Light Fighter
Missiles
Re: Tech notes
Re: Religion Careers
Re: Tech notes
Re: Microfoil - "New" Item for Traveller
re: Lifeboats
Re: Spaceports
Re: Cool Minis
RE: A message from our Host
Re: Gun Geeks
Re: Gun Geeks
Re: Spaceports
Re: Spaceports
Re: Religion Careers
Re: Cool Minis
Re: Missiles
Re: spaceport authority customs
Definitions for infrastructure, trade, and tech level

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 17:24:27 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

Stevie D (aka Bloo) writes:

> >I have a picture of the Catholic Church in the Third Imperium exerting all
> >its old influence and power.  I especially like the image of Cardinal as
> >Subsector Marquis, regal in her bright red robes.
> >
> >I hadn't though of it as a Player tool, only as background.
>
> Well, one would have to avoid the controversy of any "endorsement" of a
> religion. Also of mistakenly (or intentionaly) mocking the precepts of a
> contemporary religion.

   Which is why when I created Gabreelism I based it on religions of today,
with a few new twists here and there (i.e. beliefs against the creation of
AI).  I didn't want anyone getting the idea that any one particular set of
beliefs would ultimately win the day.  The 'canon' explanation is that
Gabree-el, the founder of Gabreelism, was a member of the Searchers for the
One Faith, a group of religious individuals that existed prior to the
Collapse.  The Searchers believed that all religions had some element of the
ultimate Truth about God (the Divine Being) in them, and that they should
seek out those elements of the Truth so that they might have a better
understanding of Him/Her/It.  

>     The concept would fit w/ the medieval imagery and i wouldn't mind seeing a
> cardinal in HIS red robes.   I'm not that hard assed about such matters,and
> i'm not interested in a theological debate on the tml, but being a Catholic
> Christian, I wouldn't like any of the Clergy being female (much less any of
> the Cardinals or the Pope).  Ditto goes for marriage.  Anyone who wishes to
> debate these issues (or any others) ; ) is more than welcome to take it into
> private email w/ me.

   As my wife is Catholic, you won't be getting argument from me on the
subject.  Of course I do have my own beliefs on the subject.  :-)

>     These are the problems (amongst others) one will run into with portraying
> any contemporary religion in anything as fickle as a rpg.

   As stated in a previous post, I couldn't agree more with this statement.

>Although I certainly don't want to get into an argument about 'real-world'
>religion with anyone on the list [trust me, even if you're agnostic, you would
>come to loathe me, and vice versa, - I should probably call myself militant
>fundamentalist aethiest to give you an idea of the strength of my
non-beliefs], I
>do wonder how you would defend the idea of a male-only clergy for the
>gender-neutral Traveller setting.  Not flame trollig here, I sincerely
welcome any
>good reasons to do something such as you suggest.  

   In a culture where there are very distinct roles for men and women, and
those roles are handed down as a matter of faith (check your logic at the
door stuff), it could happen just as easily outside of Catholicism as within.  

   Turning the example around, you could easily have a society in which the
sacredness of a woman's womb (the giver of life to us all), makes women
uniquely qualified to administer the holy sacraments (as the carriers of
said sacred body part).  Thus, it is women who are priests, and while men
can fulfill other roles within the faith, since they lack the sacred womb,
they cannot hope to become a priest themselves.

>However, since I haven't met a
>woman who's even heard of Traveller since  Mini-Con in Joplin, Missouri, USA,
>around 1977-78 (which was my introduction to the little black books). gender
>discriminatinon hasn't really been an issue for me or my players.  Besides, if
>there are girls around, the last thing we were going to do was play Traveller.
>Making complete asses of ourselves was much more of a priority.

   In my TNE campaign, we have a female player, Kelli, who plays a Kagukan
that works with the Terran Republic Ministry of Justice.  While she is
married to one of the other players, I don't think the males in the group
would turn into blabbering idiots whenever she walked into the room if she
wasn't.  She is one of those rare women you can think of as "one of the
guys" even though clearly she is not (and no, she doesn't look like
something you'd have put to sleep at the local animal shelter).

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 98 17:11:42 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Light Fighter

On 01/16/98 at 09:31 AM,  "Svenson, Gregory (FL51)"
<gsvenson@space.honeywell.com> said:

>I was not able to design it for 18 MCr without sacrificing the sensors and
>communications which I felt was unacceptable. This design costs 20.089 MCr
>which I feel is pretty close to the Starships version...

What kind of discount did you take?

A 10% volume discount would bring the cost down to 18 MCr, and a standard
design purchased in mass quantities should receive a nice discount over the
"one-of" price.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 98 17:24:43 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Missiles

On 01/16/98 at 09:41 AM,  Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com> said:

> In CT and MT, conventional missiles were the rule.  In TNE (FFS), it was
>pointed out that there is a point at which lasers (being speed of light
>weapons) acting defensively against significantly slower weapons
>(missiles) can guarantee destruction.  This point is a significant
>distance from the target.

Yep, that's the way I figure it works.

>I tend to agree with that position.  Unless you overwhelm a target with a
>_lot_ of targets or targeting interference, it should not be possible to
>slip a missile in past a properly configured defensive posture and achieve
>skin contact.

And throwing enough missiles, or enough electronics, to overwhelm a target
is going to cost an arm and a leg.

>The alternative were laser head missiles (most popularly, the X-ray
>laser). 

Or the dreaded JM-KKM.

>(sigh) personally, I liked it in the CT days - if you could get that
>missile hit in, it could do up to 6 points of damage - real justification
>for a merchant to have at least one missile tube in his turret, even
>though it cost 25 Kcr a throw.  In T4, they just don't do that kind of
>damage.

What was finally decided about the "brilliant pebbles" kinetic kill
missile?  Last I remember the general opinion was that they worked all too
well, or do I have that wrong?


Eris
- -- 
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eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 98 16:28:35 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Tech notes

On 01/16/98 at 03:24 AM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:

>> Special note for gearheads: In your various designs for power
>> plants, you now need to include railroad locomotives for TL7+ -
>> when I was listening to the radio this morning, they said that
>> one municipality in Qu=E9bec was using two of them as emergency
>> generators.

>A diesel-electric locomotive is largely generator! 

>And for that matter, back in the 60s after the Great Blackout, more than
>one port city got their power back by "boostrapping" from the powerplant
>on a ship in the harbor. 

>You see, modern powerplants need a certain minimum amount of power
>*before* you can turn them on. Power to operate the controls, the fuel
>transport mechanism, etc.

An alternative, ob Traveller, is some sort of explosive charge to kickstart
the power cycle.  In my games, I have modified GURPS-style Power Cells that
can provide a jolt of electricity to weapon or power systems.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 98 17:00:44 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

On 01/16/98 at 09:33 AM,  Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com> said:

>When creating religions for your game, why use your personal tastes to
>determine their doctrine?  Does every organization you create fit your
>personal standards?  I would think that religions would run the whole
>spectrum from strict fringe cults to new age to very conservative to
>completely wacky.  I'd bet that there'd be churches that onl allowed men,
>only allowed women, only allowed spacers, etc...

Absolutely!  

Just like there are all kinds of religious/political/cultural beliefs on
Earth today there should be all kinds of beliefs scattered across Known
Space.  A lot of the fun of Traveller is putting the PC's in *different*
environments and having them react. These different environments don't
always have to be physical environments, either. Plop your Politically
Correct PC's in a Gorish Tech 0 world (personally yuck, but that would
*certainly* be different), in a world where atheism is the rigoriously
enforced belief system, in a world where males are the subserviant gender,
in a world that requires that all citizens to be *truely* gender neutral,
in a world where cannibalism is part of the religion, in a world where
euthenasia...you get the idea.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 98 16:48:55 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Tech notes

On 01/16/98 at 05:43 AM,  "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net> said:

>>In my universe all fusion plants have built in batteries for three colds
>>start attempts, aqfter that no dice in the world would make it start. I
>>have a rare entry in my ship encounter tables for trader in need of start
>>power - a great way to give players rumors, try hijacking them or exercise
>>your favourite Hans Solo clone npc.

>Question:  Why in the 11,000 worlds would you turn the power plant off?

I can think of several reasons, some of which involve volentarily shutting
the plant down.  ;->

 1.  Annual maintenance, obviously.
 
 2.  Repair of damage to some subsystem that requires the power plant to
     be down.  Damage could come from,
    
    a. combat
    b. sabatoge
    c. lack of maintenance
    d. a critical failure roll
    
 3.  Emergency shutdowns to prevent the "fusion core" from blowing,
     slagging, exploding, melting-down, or whatever from,

     a. any of the stuff from (2)
     b. bad fuel (maybe you got a load of D2 or T2 in the flow)
     
 4.  Reducing IR/Neutrino signature...and there *are* some valid
     reasons.
 
 5.  Safety, security, and/or regulatory reasons while the ship is
     docked at the UpPort or on the ground at the DownPort.
 
 6.  Maybe your ship has several power plants and only 1 is needed to
     provide "housekeeping" power, so you shut down the rest.  Ok, you
     probably shouldn't do that, but see 6...
     
 7.  Some duffus orders the Engineer to shut it down. ;->     

>Most of them are fueled for a full year, and that fuel is topped of when
>you refuel.  Captains would probably turn the pant down to a minimal
>"housekeeping" level when in port, but why stress the equipment having to
>re-fire the chamber?

This I also agree with, but remember stuff happens.


Eris
- -- 
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eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 18:56:38 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Microfoil - "New" Item for Traveller

Semo,

Just catching up on a massive backlog of posts. nice product, nice write.
It's now been added to my list of Traveller Hardware.

Thanks
Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Thursday, January 15, 1998 3:06 AM
Subject: Microfoil - "New" Item for Traveller


>Okay, I posted this message to the list a few days ago, but I never saw it
>again.  I'm going to assume it died somewhere in transit.  If I'm sending
this
>twice and it annoys anyone, I apologize.
>
>Microfoil:
>
>Starship crews, surface teams, military and mercenary units, and those in
the
>civilian sector all have a need to join metals at one time or another.
Tanks
>of fuel and oxygen require a good deal of volume and can be quite heavy.
>
>Microfoil is the solution to this problem.
<SNIPPED WRITEUP>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:40:06 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: Lifeboats

TNE's RC Equipment guide had a couple. One class were "life rafts",
with no real maneuver drive of their own. This is pretty reasonable for
T4 liferafts if you're trying to keep the cost down, since thrusters and
the fusion planet to support them are so expensive...

(maybe put in a few g-minutes of HEPlaR to get away from an explosion.)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 18:30:02 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Spaceports

Marc

If this is yet another example of the quality of the information that will
make up T4.1 then all I can say is "WOW!, when can I get it!". The new
material you've filtered to the list has me panting in anticipation!!!!!

Waiting VERY Impatiently

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Friday, January 16, 1998 7:55 AM
Subject: Re: Spaceports


>In a message dated 98-01-15 22:31:02 EST, you write:
>
><< What constitutes a spaceport in
> Traveller.  Oh, I don't mean that class A starports can manufacture jump
> drives and so forth.  What I mean, is how difficult is it to upgrade from
> one starport to another? >>
>
>Attached is what I know about starports.
>
>Marc Miller
>
<SNIP of starport writeup>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 18:39:32 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Cool Minis

On the subject of minis. I just picked up a couple of packets of Heavy-gear
15mm. They're military types but in uniforms that, with a little
modification and paint, can double as heavily armed civilians (typically the
way my players see themselves any way, no matter what they are really
carrying!!!!).

By the way how many on the list are still playing in 15mm scale? I know that
there are more minis out there in 25mm but I like the larger "table" top
scale for 15mm. The half inch scale (from the old CT days) lets me print out
scaled deck plans.

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
To: traveller <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Thursday, January 15, 1998 10:21 PM
Subject: Cool Minis


>Hey,
>
>I was just looking at the Star Blazers Fleet Battle System
>page--they have some really nifty looking minis.
>-Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 21:01:30 -0000
From: Alex Ferrie <daishan@malkier.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RE: A message from our Host

Rob, you could have mentioned that the plug-in is several meg in size. I was 
going to give it a try but when I say the message saying "time to complete 1hr 
35mins" I thought twice about it.

On 07 January 1998 22:20, Rob Miracle [SMTP:rwm@MPGN.COM] wrote:
> Our most gracious host has asked that I post a message to you about MPG-Net
> Services.
>
> MPG-Net would like to announce the availability of a Free version of the
> Award winning Online Role Playing game, the Kingdom of Drakkar.
>
> Wanted to try MPG-Net but didn't want to use your credit card?   Now you
> can, MPG-Net has created a special web browser plug in that you can
> download and install and play in a limited version of the game.  The full
> game has many more areas to explore and you get all the other MPG-Net games
> and services.
>
> To check out that completely FREE and no obligation, go to the page:
>
>      http://www.mpgn.com/webdrakkar/
>
> And download the plug  in.  You will need IE or Netscape versions 3.0 or
> later to use this plug in.  All you need to do after installing the plugin
> to play, is to return to the page and put in an email address for us to
> email you your account number and password and within minutes you will be
> playing the most successful online, massive multi-player, persistent world
> game on the Internet.
>
>
> Admin note:  The list is still somewhat backed up.  I am getting a lot of
> deferred sites and it is backing things up.  I am trying to get more
> resources to fix the problem.
>
> Rob
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 18:42:24 -0600
From: "John D. Muncy" <jmuncy@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Gun Geeks

> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:22:40 +0100
> From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
> Subject: Re: spaceport authority customs
> 
> AS far as I know US and Chinese citizens are NOT allowed to own nukes,
> nerve gas etc. The right to bear arms of the US does not allow you to own
> nukes does it? (I'm shure some gun geeks out there think it does but...).

Dear Mr. Backman:

"Gun Geeks"? Though I diligently ensure to respect 
other peoples beliefs, I would appreciate the same courtesy.

The term "gun geek" implies a very derogatory statement toward persons who 
practice the hobby of firearm collecting. I collect and target shoot
firearms!
I do not consider myself or people like me to be a GEEK! However, to use
your
phrase, we "gun geeks" (and I am acquainted w/a lot of "gun geeks") do not 
feel that the private ownership of nukes, chemical weapons or bio-weapons
is
inherently protected by the U.S Constitution nor is it necessary for the 
defence of a free state. As a matter of fact, we "gun geeks" are pleased to
know,
and confident, that the governments of the world have the only legal
control of these said weapons, and that they take painstaking measures to 
ensure that these weapons remain under state control, and out of the hands 
of less than stable individuals. After all, these weapons make an AK-47
look 
like...an AK-47.

If one cannot keep the discussions to a civil and non-personal level
(remember that the 
world is sharing this 'net), then one is better off leaving their comments
aside. 

And no, though I collect firearms and drive a p/u truck, I do not wear a
dirty ball cap,
masticate chewing tobacco, wear pants with my ass-crack showing nor answer
to the name of "Bubba". Nor do my associates. Thank you.

Best Regards
John Muncy

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 18:05:49 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Gun Geeks

 
> "Gun Geeks"? Though I diligently ensure to respect 
> other peoples beliefs, I would appreciate the same courtesy.
> 
> The term "gun geek" implies a very derogatory statement toward persons who 
> practice the hobby of firearm collecting. I collect and target shoot
> firearms!

I have guns, and I'm a geek, so I guess I *am* a gun geek. Geek
isn't a nasty word, either :-P  Geeks rule the world one way or another.
You have a computer, you play RPGs---hell, you're a geek, too!
Everybody that reads this is a geek. Geeks of the world unite!

As for the second ammendment, I know CBN weapons are way out of what
a class III license allows) On the other hand the whole point is
to fight back if the gov tries to pull a Saddam on you and gas your
town (the Kurds sure would've loved some heavy weapons, no?). But I
have no delusions that that will happen here any time soon. I'm
happy to shoot at paper (or cans out in the desert now and again).

Ob Traveller ;-) Consider the militia movement on some backwater
planet... they have automatic slug throwers, even a few explosives
and some light armored ground vehicles. They intend to keep the
TL-15 Imperium from squashing their rights? If they can't put up a
real fight they should probably just shoot at paper and not play
make belive, I'd think (that or try to get some grav tanks and
spacecraft).

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:04:59 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Spaceports

From: Edward Swatschek <edjs@mindlink.net>
Date: Friday, January 16, 1998 8:21 AM


>Pocket Empires tries to model this; to build a starport A from 
>scratch would take  60 years and cost 15,600 TCr (or double 
>the cost and halve the time).


Could I double the time and halve the cost?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 17:01:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: Spaceports

> Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 21:31:45 -0500 (EST)
> From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
> 
>   Ok, on with the next question.  What constitutes a spaceport in
> Traveller.  Oh, I don't mean that class A starports can manufacture jump
> drives and so forth.  What I mean, is how difficult is it to upgrade from
> one starport to another?
[snip of detailed subquestions]

'Pocket Empires' covers the economic cost and time requirements in a
rather abstract but useful way.  You should probably look there for a
canon basis for further speculation on this topic. 

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:39:40 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

My wife also plays, and I had a standard fantasy game (no dark and 
weird here, mind you!!) :) was 3 girls and 1 male player.

I thot that was normal ;>



> 
> I win! I have TWO women in my group. My wife plays an ex-Marine. The other woman
> plays TWO characters, an ex-merchant and an ex-Marine.
> 
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com           http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

And the quantium ducks sayth unto you
Quark, Quark Quark

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 17:52:22 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Cool Minis

 
> By the way how many on the list are still playing in 15mm scale? I know that
> there are more minis out there in 25mm but I like the larger "table" top
> scale for 15mm. The half inch scale (from the old CT days) lets me print out
> scaled deck plans.
 
The old 15mm stuff looked out of scale to me (so does almost all
25mm I've ever seen. I prefer figures from models, either 1:72 or
1:48. I prefer 1:72 for the same reason you like 15mm, more room.

The MicroMachines figures from Star Wars (and the military ones as
well) look pretty darn good to me. I like the fact that they don't
have giant heads (the typical problem with mini figures in lead is
that they want face detail so they sculpt it bigger (that or all
their sculptors live in the land of big-headed folk).

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:51:03 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Missiles

At 05:24 PM 1/16/98 -0600, Eris wrote:
>What was finally decided about the "brilliant pebbles" kinetic kill
>missile?  Last I remember the general opinion was that they worked all too
>well, or do I have that wrong?

They work just wonderfully, given that the thruster plate drive is pretty
near to a free energy machine.  Even Heplar-powered devices are somewhat
scary, but if you let them get any serious accel time in, it becomes way,
way out of line.

I have it as canon in my games that thruster plates do not change your
kinetic energy, as they decouple gravitational and inertial mass.  Thus,
they are great for skipping about a system in general, but they cannot
create kinetic kill devices easily.

Scott

Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:47:55 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: spaceport authority customs

My gearhead cohort and I have been looking at the damage of 
conventional warheads, and the size/weight. It should be fairly easly 
to cram 12 guided HEAP warheads into a missle, and assuming a 50 to 
91% miss rate, generate a d6 hits with respecitable damage. (using 
FFS v1.0... our local game store is slow slow they just realised that 
MT was no longer shipping).. :)

That was our awnser.. Civies do not _get_ nukes. (well, unless they 
talk to Guido over there.. but heck.. just try sneaking a nuke past 
Star Port Security

"Uhh. .Son.. what is that thing on the trailer?"

"It's un.. uh..  uh.. Probe.. Yeah..."

"Why is my giger counter going crasy near it?

"Uhh.. Uhh.. we used it on a fusion.. err.. fission powerplant?")



> Not as nervous as Isreal is, you can be sure!
>   But seriously, the main difference here, is that the "attacks" have not
> occurred.  I would be willing to be, that I am not the only GM who has had
> to deal with this kind of behavior before...  Wanna bet?
>   Essentially put, nuclear warheads in civilian hands would make most
> people nervous...  Granted, TNE encourages the mindset that civilization
> has crumbled and central authorities are now no longer able to maintain
> planetary defenses, but even so, protocols should be emplaced to deal with
> the possibility.  One rude and nasty thing an invading planet can pull over
> an unsuspecting planet, is to use civilian 
> "Q-SHIPS" to start the attack without warning...
> 
>      Hal
> 
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com           http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

Thought for the day:
    The only thing that hurts more than paying income tax
    is not having to pay income tax.

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:45:53 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Definitions for infrastructure, trade, and tech level

Howdy all.

In the process of redoing the data in FS, I am reconsidering the effects of
TL on trade.

How do the following assumptions sound?

1.  Tech level is the most important determiner of GNP in the game.  A TL
change represents a factor of 2, and a change from 1 to 2 is the same
relative change as 11 to 12.
2. Infrastructure and resources are half as important as TL.
2. Port, gas giants, and belts are half as important as infrastructure
3.  Sylea is a wealthy world in M0.  The average PCGWP of a TL 12 world
with a class C port, average resources, and an average number of gas giants
and asteroid belts is ~10KCr.

To put some context on it, I am assuming that every tech level represents
about 1% of the GNP for roughly 100 years on pure research.  A similar
amount of money would need to be spent on new infrastruture, I suspect, but
I will take that up later.  The Apollo program represented something like
3-4% of our GDP for the period when it was in place.  I explain the four
tech levels that Earth has gone through in this century as some kind of
uplift, as otherwise, Traveller numbers are hard to explain.  :)

Consider the following question.  You are about to purchase a new compact
car, such as a Saturn, Nissan, or Toyota.  You are offered an exact replica
of a Datsun B210 from 1975, or a similar Ford vehicle.  The vehicles you
were thinking of cost roughly $12-15K, while the Datsun cost $3K at the
time.  Inflation would boost that to something closer to $6-7K.

Given that the B210 lacks emissions control, fuel injection, air bags, FM
radios, and a lot of other goodies, would it be worth saving $6k?

When I asked around here, I got responses indicating that those goods were
worth perhaps half of what supposed equivalents were.  For no good reason,
though, I am assigning a value to a shift of one TL of a factor of 2.  I
would also be willing to accept sqrt(2), but it seems to flatten the curve
a lot.

Thus, the full range of tech levels, from 0 to 15 represents a difference
of 32000 in the price of manufactured goods.  I am assuming that a more
"reasonable" difference for two trading partners would be roughly three
tech levels, or a factor of 8.  Sylean goods selling here, would be worth
between 8 and 16 times what they were on Sylea, or, alternatively, we would
have to give up a tremendous amount of stuff to get each F+ plant.

This makes the existence of labels like "Stellar" more sensible - traders
will likely trade within a band, as that band represents the capital they
can amass, and the markets that can afford their goods.  It would be
unlikely for there to be a lot of cross talk between agricultural,
industrial, stellar, and high stellar goods.  when there is, a world, or a
trader becomes very wealthy.

Consider - under normal circumstances, a trader cannot carry off enough
wheat to justify a single fusion plus unit, so they likely do not get any
buyers at all at the "real" price of 4000 times what they paid.  Instead,
the locals might put together a hundred people's work to buy the unit.  The
trader might have been better off hauling off fine machined goods from a
different high tech world to the asteroid colony that made the fusion plus
plant.  If the asteroid world has a disaster and the hydroponics tanks go
deal, then they might suddenly be willing to pay far, far more for that
wheat than one would at first think, and a trader with a cargo of wheat
might be able to swap it for an entire hold of fusion plus units.

Does this sound reasonable?  It seems like the only way to explain the
tremendously slow creep of tech levels, such that there are still
substantial tech level differences in the 1100 era.  In addition, it
explains why so few colonies worked out.  They did not have sufficient
wealth to set up the infrastructure they needed.

I am also assigning life ratings, which run from 0-10 with bonuses.

Resources run from 0-10, and a world with TL 8 and a class D port can add
in half the belts and gas giants, making the maximum rating 12.5.  Is is
reasonable for a single world to have 32 times the recoverable resources of
another?  Can space based industry multiply that by a factor of ~6?
Charles Sheffield thinks so, and I believe him.

A world with no resources at all would be 32 times less productive than the
average of 5, and one with a rating of 10 would be 32 times more so.  Since
you get an automatic boost from that class D port, there is a strong
incentive to construct one. A class B port might make more sense, as if you
cannot construct the craft needed to deal with those extra planetary
resources, it is hard to make money from them.  Alternatively, even class C
ports might be able to make <100 ton small craft.  Opinions?

Roughly 28 percent of all worlds are rich, and roughly 28 percent are poor,
so resources above 6 leads to the Ri trade code, and resources below 4 lead
to the Po trade code.  It is very expensive to raise infrastructure, thus
most people leave it at the average of five or so.

Infrastructure ratings run from 0-10.  Port bonuses range from 0 to 2.5.
This makes the total range of industry about a factor of 75 at any given
tech level.  Any infrastructure over the planetary resource level
represents space based industry and off world trade.

Roughly 28 percent of all worlds are industrial, and roughly 28 percent are
non industrial, so infrastructure above 6 leads to the In trade code, and
infrastructure below 4 lead to the Ni trade code.  It is very expensive to
raise infrastructure, thus most people leave it at the average of five or so.

Because it is difficult to bring in much more trade form off world than a
world generates internally, it's infrastructure rating is virtually always
less than or equal to the resources+half the number of gas giants+half the
number of planetary belts.  This is raw infrastructure, and does not
include the port bonus.  (It is a rare industrial world that is poor under
this system, as it is rare for a system to have more than three belts and
two gas giants.)

I am figuring that a raise in tech level represents the information needed,
plus the training and planning needed to fold it in  Since an uplift
already has the information, it costs half as much, and can be done in far
less time.  Repurchasing some fraction of the infrastructure is also
needed, and I am open to argument on how much, but it might make sense to
make a raise in infrastructure cost roughly half that of a raise in tech
level, and a raise in tech level implies the same amount to be spent again
to represent retooling.

By definition, the PCGNP of a world at TL 12, inf 5, res 5, with a class C
port, one gas giant, and one planetary belt is 10KCr.

The port code in all of my formulas comes from
Class	Values
A	5
B	4
C	3
D	2
E	1
X	0

I have tried a lot of different formulas, and gotten a number of different
results.  Fiddling with the parameters for total GWP gives me a couple of
different possibilities, of which the best so far is

GWP=18*2^(4*TL+2*Inf+2*Res+ports+belts+giants)/8

So, to summarize:

Tech level is twice as important as infrastructure or resources.

Port, belts, gas giants are half as important.

One step in TL represents a change of 2.

Some results:

A virgin colony world with no technology
t0 i0 r5 p0 b0 g0 = 18*2^10/8=5*2^1.25 = 43

A virgin colony world for a TL 5 colony
t5 i5 r5 p0 b0 g0 = 242

A virgin colony world for an under funded TL 9 colony
t9 i0 r5 p0 b0 g0 = 18*2^46/8= 969

The average TL 9 world with a C class port:
t9 i5 r5 p3 b1 g1 = 18*2^61/8=3553

A promising TL 12 very rich colony, with a class C port
t12 i0 r10 p3 b1 g1 = 10,050

The average TL 12 world:
t12 i5 r5 p3 b1 g1 = 10,050

Sylea, a rich world in my game:
t12 i8 r8 p5 b1 g2 = 36,864

Shudusham, a populous but not rich or industrial world in my game
t12 i6 r6 p5 b1 g2 = 18,432

A rich industrial world:
t12 i7 r7 p5 b1 g2 = 26,067

The average TL 15 world with a class B port:
t15 i5 r5 p3 b1 g1 = 30,999

Keshi, a very rich world in my game:
t12 i6 r10 p5 b1 g2 = 36,864

Archona, a villainous rich industrial world in my game:
t12 i10 r10 p5 b3 g2 = 87,678

Sylea in 1100:
t15 i8 r8 p5 b1 g2 = 104,267

Everyone's worst nightmare - Magrathea:
t17 i10, r10 p5 b3 g2 = 495,981

So, it turns out that by TL 15, even the average worlds are ahead of Sylea
in M0, while high tech truly rules the Imperium.  This also means that it
is unlikely for someone to make a lot of money trading high to low, because
of the currency exchanges, but if they _do_ hit a big fad on an industrial
rich world, the amount of money available is astonishing.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #3
********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Saturday, January 17 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 004



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Cool Minis
Re: Religion & Drugs
Re: Tech notes
Re: Gun Geeks
Re: Spaceports
Re: Light Fighter
My Spreadsheet
Re: Gun Geeks
Re: Tech notes
Re: A message from our Host
Re: Religion Careers
Re: Religion Careers
Re: Gun Geeks
Re: Religion Careers
Re: Tech notes
Re: Religion Careers
Re: Religion Careers
Re: Religion Careers
Re: Religion Careers
Re: Religion & Drugs
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2240

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 20:45:35 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Cool Minis

Well, I have also been modifying a number of Napoleonics to use as Trav.
Military types. They are deffinately MUCH better at retaining actual scale,
and the period uniforms (with the right paint) give them a flare!

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.Com

- -----Original Message-----
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Friday, January 16, 1998 8:43 PM
Subject: Re: Cool Minis


>
>> By the way how many on the list are still playing in 15mm scale? I know
that
>> there are more minis out there in 25mm but I like the larger "table" top
>> scale for 15mm. The half inch scale (from the old CT days) lets me print
out
>> scaled deck plans.
>
>The old 15mm stuff looked out of scale to me (so does almost all
>25mm I've ever seen. I prefer figures from models, either 1:72 or
>1:48. I prefer 1:72 for the same reason you like 15mm, more room.
>
>The MicroMachines figures from Star Wars (and the military ones as
>well) look pretty darn good to me. I like the fact that they don't
>have giant heads (the typical problem with mini figures in lead is
>that they want face detail so they sculpt it bigger (that or all
>their sculptors live in the land of big-headed folk).
>
>-Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 98 22:15 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Religion & Drugs

Moin SemoFetus,

> You're correct, but, I don't suspect this has anything to do with the
> Protestant religious groups and their overbearing attitude towards RPGs (and
> having been through a Catholic grade school and high school I can say it
> wasn't only the protestant types, and I have a really nice anti-roleplaying
> pamphlet from an order of Catholic nuns that would be funny if it didn't cause
> the loss of a couple role-players due to irate parents as a kid).  I would
> tend to think that anyone who needs rules for drinking in AD&D is _way_ too
> much into roll-playing as opposed to role-playing.  I'm trying to think of
> exactly how much a specific rule for drinking would help any game I've ever
> run or been in...  and it wouldn't.

	Well any religion has its drugs, and catholic start drinking wine
	with 14, or even earlier, while moslems are inhaling mariuana, and
	american indians eat fungies and smoke tobako by tradition. Now
	taking a drug is a skill, e.g. I'm drunken at 2 german beers, but
	can smoke about 10 gram weed over the day. My dog is eating chocolate,
	and I know that you need more polamedon for a junk to avoid turkey,
	than the letal dosis for a beginer.

	ObTrav: I would call drug usage it a skill based on CON. It can
	even have its important applications in a game, thing about a
	planet with TL:3 inhabitants being on your trade route. Now its
	tradition that bussiness is always enabled by some kind of social
	event, and of course (insert prefered drug here) takes an important
	role in that event. e.g. a broker/wheeler who wants to make bussiness
	with this planet, must learn how to smoke tobako if it is american
	indian tradition, or has to drink beer if it has german solomani
	settlement. The skill is used for enabling other skills.

	e.g. riding graph bike after 2 beer
		- hasardous routine alcohol + average driving
	     making bussiness on extasy
	     	- faitfull formidable psidrug + average broker

By Michael
- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 98 23:24 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Tech notes

Moin Bolie Williams IV,

> What about a rechargeable batter?  This is what cars do today... seems
> like that far in the future the same kind of thing would be available.

	I think a fusion powerplant will need a nuclear power plant
	for startup. I can even cite a "canon" reference. Guilded Lilly
	in Jo's Garage when she " pulled the plug ", means turned the
	nuclear damper on, to avoid that Lilly start her powerplant.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 18:42:24 -0600
From: "John D. Muncy" <jmuncy@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Gun Geeks

> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:22:40 +0100
> From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
> Subject: Re: spaceport authority customs
> 
> AS far as I know US and Chinese citizens are NOT allowed to own nukes,
> nerve gas etc. The right to bear arms of the US does not allow you to own
> nukes does it? (I'm shure some gun geeks out there think it does but...).

Dear Mr. Backman:

"Gun Geeks"? Though I diligently ensure to respect 
other peoples beliefs, I would appreciate the same courtesy.

The term "gun geek" implies a very derogatory statement toward persons who 
practice the hobby of firearm collecting. I collect and target shoot firearms!
I do not consider myself or people like me to be a GEEK! However, to use your
phrase, we "gun geeks" (and I am acquainted w/a lot of "gun geeks") do not 
feel that the private ownership of nukes, chemical weapons or bio-weapons is
inherently protected by the U.S Constitution nor is it necessary for the 
defence of a free state. As a matter of fact, we "gun geeks" are pleased to know,
and confident, that the governments of the world have the only legal
control of these said weapons, and that they take painstaking measures to 
ensure that these weapons remain under state control, and out of the hands 
of less than stable individuals. After all, these weapons make an AK-47 look 
like...an AK-47.

If one cannot keep the discussions to a civil and non-personal level (remember that the 
world is sharing this 'net), then one is better off leaving their comments
aside. 

And no, though I collect firearms and drive a p/u truck, I do not wear a dirty ball cap,
masticate chewing tobacco, wear pants with my ass-crack showing nor answer
to the name of "Bubba". Nor do my associates. Thank you.

Best Regards
John Muncy

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 20:05:03 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Spaceports

In a message dated 98-01-16 19:31:49 EST, you write:

<< If this is yet another example of the quality of the information that will
 make up T4.1 then all I can say is "WOW!, >>

Thanks. I'm trying to make this version top notch.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:46:06 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Light Fighter

From: Svenson, Gregory (FL51) <gsvenson@space.honeywell.com>


>I made a stab at creating the Light Fighter from the T4 Starships book
>using FFS2. I used Andrew Akins spreadsheet (vsn. 1.6) to do the design.
>Here is the result. Your comments and suggestions for improvements are
>greatly appreciated.

[snipped design itself]

>I was not able to design it for 18 MCr without sacrificing the sensors
>and communications which I felt was unacceptable. This design costs
>20.089 MCr which I feel is pretty close to the Starships version...

Check fuel costs, I believe the Akins said 1.6 gave fuel costs that are 14x
higher than correct.  On the other hand, if it was less than a 20 of a Td
then maybe that wouldn't help much.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:45:18 -0600
From: The Akins <igor@ames.net>
Subject: My Spreadsheet

I'm pleased to announce version 1.7 of my FF&S spreadsheet. It is freely
available on my Traveller web page at www.ames.net/igor/trav/trav.htm.
Just go to the Drydock page.

Version 1.7 is both a bug fix and a feature upgrade. Notible changes
include:
  * Fixed economics page (hopefully for the last time).
  * Fixed laser volume calculation.
  * Fixed multiple weapon error message.
  * Changed the component armor shape to "medium box".
  * Added crew totals to the summary footer.
  * Summary footer moved to a split pane to keep the summary footer
always visible.
  * New! Power use tracking page, to closely analyze and track power
generation and expenditure.
  * New! Batteries.
  * New! Additional bridge workstation armor.

Let me know what you think...I'm happy to add/fix it as much as
necessary so that people are pleased with it.

Thanks...

  Andrew Akins

- -- 
+----------------------------------------------------------+
| THE AKINS: Andy, Chris, and Matt                         |
+----------------------------------------------------------+
| E-Mail: igor@ames.net                                    |
| WWW:    http://www.ames.net/igor/                        |
+----------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 20:30:49 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Gun Geeks

- -----Original Message-----
From: John D. Muncy <jmuncy@siscom.net>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>; traveller-digest@lists.MPGN.COM
<traveller-digest@lists.MPGN.COM>
Date: Friday, January 16, 1998 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: Gun Geeks


>> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:22:40 +0100
>> From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
>> Subject: Re: spaceport authority customs
>>
>> AS far as I know US and Chinese citizens are NOT allowed to own nukes,
>> nerve gas etc. The right to bear arms of the US does not allow you to own
>> nukes does it? (I'm shure some gun geeks out there think it does but...).
<Rnat snipped to save space>

>And no, though I collect firearms and drive a p/u truck, I do not wear a
>dirty ball cap,
>masticate chewing tobacco, wear pants with my ass-crack showing nor answer
>to the name of "Bubba". Nor do my associates. Thank you.
>
>Best Regards
>John Muncy


John, or Mr. Muncy, if you prefer,
I do, (except for the pants and tabacco, I've had the same ball cap for 6
years, designed the logo myself, covered with pins from the various places
I've been sent to in the states and overseas, I love that thing and won't
let the wife clean it. It now rests in a place of honor on my desk! Call one
of my co-workers and about everyone else "bubba", have a p/u that costs more
than my son's Beamer, and has a gunrack in the back window! Guess I'm just a
a "REDNECK Piney"* at heart) except when they make me wear a suit!  John,
lighten up. This list generates enough flame wars without one starting over
a term that was obviously, even at a casual glance, meant in jest.

*Piney= New Jersey hill billy

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 20:57:04 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Tech notes

From: Michael D. Peters <Letterworks@Comten.com>
<big snip>

>Maybe a more archaic design emergency generator is used, perhaps tied
>through a small HePLAR? Wasn' t that the one that generated power as well?
>(Sorry don't have my books available).

Nope, you have that exactly backwards, the HEPlaR is a controlled plasma
leak in the Fusion chamber.  Soooo, power has to be on before you can get
acceleration.

Canonically speaking, "Fusion plants normally require a fractional second
startup pulse from storage banks [batteries] equal to their output, and such
a storage bank is included in the mass of any fusion plant." (CSC p 61)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 22:25:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Re: A message from our Host

> Rob, you could have mentioned that the plug-in is several meg in size. I was 
> going to give it a try but when I say the message saying "time to complete 1hr 
> 35mins" I thought twice about it.

I wish it wasn't as big, but Drakkar has a lot of graphics.  

Rob
- -- 
Rob Miracle
rwm@mpgn.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:35:23 +0000
From: "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

> Hey, I wasn't trying to win, I was just pointing out that there is more then
> one woman who has heard of Trav :)

I'm not alone? <G>

Suz 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 20:39:59 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

On 1/16, Bloo said:

[snip]
>I wouldn't accept such a [male dominated] religion in my campaign that
>excluded women without a damn good reason.  Not being able to
>coneceive of such a reason, you guessed it, equal opportunity.

I can't believe that you would actually insist on reason in religion.  Many
(perhaps most) religions are not the least bit reasonable or based in the
slightest on reason.

Those of you getting irate right about now, I'm not talking about your
religion.  I know, you belong to one of the ones that are completely
reasonable and value and practice reason as often as possible.  Me too!  I'm
talking about those wacky ones, you know.

My point is that

1.) Tradition in many religious organizations is sufficient justification
      for just about anything.
     "We have always done it that way.  I guess we always will."
     I will never forget a discussion I was in regarding modern translations
of
     the Bible.  One of the participants, a very dear and pig-headed
     friend of mine, said, "Why change, the KJV has been working
     just fine for the last 400 years."  I heard of someone else who
     said, "It's the Authorized version."  No offense, but who
     authorized it anyway?  (FYI: it was King James (I of England)
     (aka James VI, king of Scotland).)
2.)  People resist change.  It scares them.
     "Better the devil you know."

>...I do wonder how you would defend the idea of a male-only clergy for the
>gender-neutral Traveller setting.  Not flame trolling here, I sincerely
welcome any
>good reasons to do something such as [was suggested].

I can just hear a parish priest or convent school teacher (nun) explaining
the situation to an inquisitive parishioner or student, something like this:

Christ's vicar, His Holiness Pope Pius XCIX, speaking ex cathedra explained
the situation.  He has instructed us that only men, may serve in the office
of a priest.  Women are excluded because they are daughters of Eve, who
succumbed to the temptations of the Evil One and who dragged Adam into
iniquity with her.  Further, it is a well known fact that only a priest may
be elevated to the Bishopric, and only a Bishop may be elevated to the
Cardinalcy, and only a Cardinal may be elected to fill the Papacy.
Therefore, there will never be a woman Pope, Cardinal or Bishop.  Besides if
a woman were allowed to be elected to the Papacy then it would have to be a
Mamacy, and who wants that?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 20:11:23 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Gun Geeks

>> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:22:40 +0100
>> From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
>> Subject: Re: spaceport authority customs
>>
>> AS far as I know US and Chinese citizens are NOT allowed to own nukes,
>> nerve gas etc. The right to bear arms of the US does not allow you to own
>> nukes does it? (I'm shure some gun geeks out there think it does but...).
>
>Dear Mr. Backman:
>
>"Gun Geeks"? Though I diligently ensure to respect
>other peoples beliefs, I would appreciate the same courtesy.

[more deleted]

Not to put to fine a point on it, chill out.

After reading a whole series of articles on gearheads, and how they are (in
some people's minds) ruining the game for everyone, and how the catholic
church better/better not allow female cardinals, being called a gun geek is
par for the course.  Since I suspect it was meant with about the same level
of respect as the usual run of posts exhibits towards a lot of other deeply
and sincerely held beliefs, the casual reference seems "in the pack."

As an aside, I happen to hold the opinion that the intent of said amendment
imples the possession of strategic weapons by individual states.  Given how
close the individual states were at the time to the powerful landowners and
thier tenants, I would have to say that weapons of strategic importance
were protected under the original intent of the amendment.

We live in a different world nowadays, where such a strategic weapons can
impact a lot more people than a body of troops with muskets and some wodden
hulled sailing vessels, thus it is appropriate to interpret it n light of
the modern era.  How you scale it to the present day is a matter of debate,
such that some hold that surrendering all handguns in this country would be
a great idea, to those who hold that automatic weapons and grenades are
needed.

Personally, I am of the "if you can use it, can demonstrate that you can
use it, are not a menace, and are willing to be cmpletely responsible for
all results coming from your owning that tool, then go right ahead" school.
I use the same deal on cars, computers, buoldings, and darn near everything
else, which puts me strongly in opposition to the current litigous world.
So be it.

ObTrav - this is how my Imperium runs.  They only pull away nukes because
of the very real chance that those could turn nobody political
organizations into somebody political organizations.  It is cheaper to
forbid and inspect than to give away nuke dampers.

Scott

- -------
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu.  http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz/
"You die, she dies, EVERYbody dies" - Heavy Metal
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment results" -
Calvin Coolidge, attrib. by Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:57:32 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

Suz wrote:
>I'm not alone? <G>

Nope.  My girlfriend plays in my current Traveller game, and I have rarely
had a group without 1-3 female players.  This covers a time period reaching
back to <mumble 86 or so mumble>

Scott

- -------
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu.  http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz/
"You die, she dies, EVERYbody dies" - Heavy Metal
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment results" -
Calvin Coolidge, attrib. by Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 22:25:26 -0500
From: Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com>
Subject: Re: Tech notes

At 9:57 PM -0500 1/16/98, Richard A. Flores wrote:
>Canonically speaking, "Fusion plants normally require a fractional second
>startup pulse from storage banks [batteries] equal to their output, and such
>a storage bank is included in the mass of any fusion plant." (CSC p 61)

The first thing I'd do on a fighter, then, is rip out the storage bank
and let the carrier fire them up.  This would save on mass, which is
critical in a fighter.  There are probably other kinds of ships which
would do this, too.

Bolie IV

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 23:38:30 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

Bolie Williams IV writes:

>When creating religions for your game, why use your personal tastes
>to determine their doctrine?  Does every organization you create fit
>your personal standards?  I would think that religions would run the
>whole spectrum from strict fringe cults to new age to very conservative
>to completely wacky.  I'd bet that there'd be churches that only
>allowed men, only allowed women, only allowed spacers, etc...

   Certainly they would run the spectrum, and not every organization
will be cloned from your own belief structure (nor should it). 
Traveller already has its own semi-humorous religion based on the
teachings of St. Elvis (Presley that is).

   I would say however that if you have a situation where a particular
religion or sect is going to be central to a story, it's a good idea if
that religion at least partially reflect your beliefs.

   Why?  Well for starters, referees are not necessarily good actors. 
Chances are during a role-playing session you're going to have to play
the part of a priest/shaman/etc. from that religion, and it helps your
ability to improvise out the scene if you have a feel for how they
should react to a given situation or set of stimulus.  For example, it
is unlikely that a priest who's faith believes in strict pacifism is
going to pick up a gun and start shooting at bad guys, even if a group
of PCs' lives are in danger (he may shoot into the air to scare off the
assailants).

   Ultimately the basic tenants of Gabreelism reflect a great deal of my
thinking with regard to God, the Universe, and Everything.  It couldn't
be helped actually--because when you are writing *anything*, some you
goes on that paper, and it is particularly true when you talk at length
about something as personal as religion.  The same is true when you
create a detailed world government for a campaign.  If you are at all
passionate about politics, some of your belief structures about how you
think government should work (or not work if the government is supposed
to be the bad guys) will be reflected in it.

   The key to writing about passionate subjects is to try to keep as
open a mind as possible to other possibilities (a universe in which all
the governments are democratic republics would be just as boring as one
where all governments were tyrannical and there was no resistance
movement), and remember that just because you feel that a certain way of
life is obvious, it may not be so obvious to someone else.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 22:48:26 -0600 (CST)
From: Joseph Heck <ccjoe@showme.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

Suzette C. Dollar said:
> > Hey, I wasn't trying to win, I was just pointing out that there is more then
> > one woman who has heard of Trav :)
> 
> I'm not alone? <G>

My wife plays trav, she just doesn't like to do massive amounts of email.
:)

- -- 
 joe                          (573) 884-6766
 ccjoe@showme.missouri.edu    http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/
 PGP Fingerprint: E3 3F DF 08 BE 3E 44 A0  EE A9 80 7E 22 99 CD DF

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 98 22:34:33 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

On 01/16/98 at 08:39 PM,  "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> said:

>>I wouldn't accept such a [male dominated] religion in my campaign that
>>excluded women without a damn good reason.  Not being able to
>>coneceive of such a reason, you guessed it, equal opportunity.

>I can't believe that you would actually insist on reason in religion. 
>Many (perhaps most) religions are not the least bit reasonable or based in
>the slightest on reason.

Religious belief isn't based, primarily, on reason anyway, it is based on
faith, faith in the unreasonable, unprovable, *illuminated* truth.  The
believer, believes *in spite* of any evidence of reason...or so I'm told.
;->

>Those of you getting irate right about now, I'm not talking about your
>religion.  I know, you belong to one of the ones that are completely
>reasonable and value and practice reason as often as possible.  Me too! 
>I'm talking about those wacky ones, you know.

Yeah, right! Hee! Hee! It's always the other guy's beliefs that are the
wacky ones, not yours or mine. ;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 20:54:58 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

Tsykoduk wrote:

>My wife also plays, and I had a standard fantasy game (no dark and
>weird here, mind you!!) :) was 3 girls and 1 male player.
>
>I thot that was normal ;>
>
>>
>> I win! I have TWO women in my group. My wife plays an ex-Marine. The
>>other woman
>> plays TWO characters, an ex-merchant and an ex-Marine.
>>


Bah! My Traveller-*playing* experience dates back to the late '80s and a
group composed entirely of... um, well, all the regulars were either female
by biology or by adopted gender.  Most of us played characters who were of
opposite birth sex, interestingly enough, i.e., the folks with XX
chromosomes played male characters, the one with XY played a female
character.  Except for yours truly, who played a Hiver; make of it what you
will.

There were great lashings of ultra-violence, ISTR.  Necessary, unnecessary,
shmecessary.  But yeah, there were a lot of ex-Marines with us, too.  This
was about the time _Aliens_ (and <swoon> Private Vasquez) came out, after
all.  Take the aftermath of an encounter with some inadequately-armed
Chirpers: "Hey! Tastes just like chicken!".


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

NEW!!!! "Why the Sayat? WHY???" (NC-17: cussing, blasphemy, politics & book
   reviews) at <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/saywhufo.html>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 20:55:04 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Religion & Drugs

Michael Koehne wrote:

>        ObTrav: I would call drug usage it a skill based on CON. It can
>        even have its important applications in a game, thing about a
>        planet with TL:3 inhabitants being on your trade route. Now its
>        tradition that bussiness is always enabled by some kind of social
>        event, and of course (insert prefered drug here) takes an important
>        role in that event. e.g. a broker/wheeler who wants to make bussiness
>        with this planet, must learn how to smoke tobako if it is american
>        indian tradition, or has to drink beer if it has german solomani
>        settlement. The skill is used for enabling other skills.
>
>        e.g. riding graph bike after 2 beer
>                - hasardous routine alcohol + average driving
>             making bussiness on extasy
>                - faitfull formidable psidrug + average broker

<twine tentacles in deep gratification>

Soon, soon, we'll have you all smoking drug drug through rolled-up copies
of _Starships_ and _First Survey_ while sacrificing kidnapped homosexual
babies at Lenin's mausoleum.  Yes!  And your little dogs too!

<caper in silent glee>

M. Kenji

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 23:48:29
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2240

At 03:35 AM 16/01/98 -0500, Hal wrote:

>  Ok, on with the next question.  What constitutes a spaceport in
>Traveller.  Oh, I don't mean that class A starports can manufacture jump
>drives and so forth.  What I mean, is how difficult is it to upgrade from
>one starport to another?

Pocket Empires has some numbers in it, together with what supporting
infrastructure and technology they need. They are costed in Resource Units
or RU and are ungodly expensive, when you consider 1 RU = MCr 5000 or so.

Personally, I think the way to go is to have different sizes of starports
(eg class C6 means a class C facility for a pop 6 population), and if your
pop goes up then the class degrades (eg you have a C6 facility, and your
world is now pop 7. Congratulations, you are now the proud owner of a class
D7 facility. Please recalculate your economy to cope with the lower level
of starport). Starport costs are based on a log scale, based on size of
facility.

>  The reason I ask, is for those of us who want to look at "historical"
>forces and try to decide what starports are going to come into being years
>down the road.
>  If I may, I would like to point out TWILGHT'S PEAK adventure #3.  It it,
>it discusses how the MagnetoDynamics corporation was able to create a
>class A starport.  What I am basically looking at, from this point of
>view, is what are the minimum requirements to go from what would appear to
>be an X or D class starport, and transform it into an A starport.  How
>much to build the factories that build jump drives, how much to build the
>support infrastructure that permits cargoes to be collected quickly and
>efficiently, how much for the repair shops, the ship fabrication shops,
>the shipyards themselves, etc...
>  As you can see, this seems to be an area that has been neglected in the
>long run, unless this has been addressed prior to my resumption of this
>mailing list <grin>.

Two words. Pocket Empires. It is one of the few T4 products I actually
shelled out my money for.

>
>Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 22:49:25 -0500 (EST)
>From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
>Subject: Re: Lifeboats
>
>> >Larger passenger vessels have lifeboats in at least one canon source (see
>> >Marooned/Marooned Alone*).
>> 
>
>In response to Zane's comment in response to Loren Wiseman's to Hal's
><grin>...
>
>  I have in my hands a copy of THE BEST OF JTAS #2, page 34 of the SHIP'S
>LOCKER area...
>
>LIFEBOATS: 20 tons, TL8 14 MCR, holding 3 conscious passengers and 20
>frozen passengers.  Pilot of the craft needs to roll an 8+ with bonuses
>for ship's boat skill.  In the same "section" of the ship's locker, are
>entries for Rescue Ball as well as Hostile Environment kit.

I'm eyeballing this for FFS2. OK, MCr 2.5 of t-plates, 3 workstations, one
bunk, 5 4 person emergency low berths, a small power plant using The
Abomonation Known As Fusion Plus to run the t-plates and keep the
passengers nicely chilled ... I reckon you could cut the cost and fit in
more than 20 frozen passengers, given 20 dtons to play with. Add a 1m3
fission plant with 2 years fuel supply and a set of auxilary solar panels
(perhaps retractable) and you could conceivably keep the corpsicles chilled
for years. Oh yeah, and a nice strong radio communicator. And maybe a Meosn
Gun. You can never be too careful.

If you buy the Famile Spofulam version, we'll throw in a free set of either
a MagaBoing Grav Pogo Stick or a Barbie's Own Purse Size Particle
Accelerator Pistol for each of the kiddies.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #4
********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Saturday, January 17 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 005



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Missiles
Re: AD&D and "controversial issues"
Re: Microfoil - "New" Item for Traveller
Re: Religion Careers
Re: Calculating Stellar Mass
Re: Tech notes
Re: Lifeboats
Re: Religion Careers
Re: Tech notes
Re: Religion Careers
Re: Missiles
Re: Cool Minis
Guns of the Wild West
THUDDD 8: Ready for voting!
Re: Drakkar
Re: Religion Careers
Re: Foundation
Re: Gun Geeks
Re: Guns of the Wild West
Re: Calculating Stellar Mass
Re: Religion Careers (fwd)
Customs checks and fusion stuff
Darrians

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 21:38:58 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Missiles

(forgive me if my physics are way off but here goes)

Kinetic energy is a result of vector and mass.

Thruster plates change vector (even if simply used for skipping 
around the system).

How can a change in vector not change the KE potental of an object? 
Unless 1) the mass goes down, 2) vector is not changed (al la jump).

My way around that is to limit the size of a thruster plate ;)

Cya


> 
> I have it as canon in my games that thruster plates do not change your
> kinetic energy, as they decouple gravitational and inertial mass.  Thus,
> they are great for skipping about a system in general, but they cannot
> create kinetic kill devices easily.
> 
> Scott
> 
> Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
> "When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
> results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
> "The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams
> 
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com           http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

Thought for the day:
    A penny saved is ridiculous.

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 00:59:23 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: AD&D and "controversial issues"

>From what I understand, WotC has stated that they've revised TSRs stance on
>such matters ("Code of Ethics?" or something like that).  For instance, outer
>planar denizens are going to be referred to as demons and devils and daemons
>again.  I can't remember if alcohol and/or sex or anything else was
mentioned.

As far as the demons, devils, daemons and demodands thing goes, that's cool.
The new names didn't bother me (in fact, they were a little more clear cut.
Daemon is pronounced more or less like demon and the whole thing could get
pretty confusing).

I didn't mind the new names, but I did mind the _reason_ for the new names.
Pressure from parents, community and church groups.  I can also understand it.
Why stick to your guns and be poor, when you can change something that's
really relatively minor and deflect criticism.

Alcohol in AD&D should best be roleplayed.  Using tables and rules for such a
thing is really silly, IMHO.  Sex in AD&D...  Well, just leave it out.  We
don't need the harlot encounter tables ("You meet a brazen strumpet and a
wanton trollop.  What do you do?"), and I think sex area should be tread with
delicate feet...  Doesn't need to be in the rule books at any rate...

Sorry.  Forgot my point.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 01:02:45 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Microfoil - "New" Item for Traveller

>Just catching up on a massive backlog of posts. nice product, nice write.
>It's now been added to my list of Traveller Hardware.

No problem.  I have a few other nifty devices on the way, just have to write
them up properly.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 01:10:40 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

>> Hey, I wasn't trying to win, I was just pointing out that there is more
then
>> one woman who has heard of Trav :)
>
>I'm not alone? <G>

Nope.  Apparently, from what I've been reading, women line up to play
Traveller :)

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 00:21:16 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Calculating Stellar Mass

From: Eric Freitas <edf@atlantic.net>


>I know that someone out there must know how to do
>this, so I thought I'd ask.  How do you calculate the
>mass of a star when all you know about it is it's
>luminosity and color temperature?  I know that you
>can calculate the surface area of the star, and from
>there the radius using the Stefan-Boltzmann Law.  I
>cannot seem to find any way to calculate the mass,
>even though I would think that you could do it if you
>knew it's spectrum, luminosity, and radius.

I know that from the information you have, you can determine the general
class of stars the one in question falls into.  I have attached a
Hertzsprung-Russell Diagram.  If you have the surface area, the diameter (d)
or radius (r) can be derived using the following formula #1.  Using this
value, you can derive the volume (v) using formula #2.  With the volume, you
can estimate the mass (m) using the estimated density (e) for the type of
star in question.

1.)  d = (a / pi) ^ (1 / 2)                        r = (a / 4 / pi) ^ (1 /
2)
2.)  v = pi / 6 * d ^ 3                             v = 4 / 3 * pi * r ^ 3
3.)  m = v * e

I can't find the reference to stellar densities.  If I run across it, I'll
post it later.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 00:38:54 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Tech notes

From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>


>On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Erwin Fritz wrote:
>>
>> Perhaps there is no technical reason why you should have to turn it off. Maybe
>> it's just a case of being standard starport regulations. Maybe citizens at
>> large starports are nervous about having hundreds of nuclear power plants
>> active in one location.
>
>Oh, puleeeze! At the risk of sounding strident, Traveller is NOT 1998 with
>starships!!! At this point those citizens have been living with small,
>often portable fusion power sources for _thousands_ of years. Being
>'Nervous' about having working fusion plants around would be like us being
>'nervous' about having all that dangerous electricity in our house on the
>grounds that it might leap out of it's wires and strike us when we're not
>looking.

Hang on there Bruce, there probably would be places where just such
attitudes would pertain.  After sliding down to tech ? and building back up,
what would the difference be?  Or maybe there's a government or
revolutionary or religious or business (or a ..., well, you get the idea)
group scaring the people.

This wouldn't be everywhere, but there might be a place or two, or even a
whole pocket empire.

>More than likely starships are powered down to some minimal level, meaning
>you have to 'warm start' the systems when in port. That would be more
>likely due to the owners not wanting the thing stolen. I see a ship with a
>full-on power plant as akin to a car with its engine running; on minimal
>power akin to a car with the ignition off, and fully shut down like a car
>with it's battery dead or removed. Each requires a different level of
>effort to get the thing moving. Fully shut down would be rare, ordinarily
>only done for maintenence reasons.

That sounds reasonable.  But, don't forget about sabotage. ;-)  What a nasty
way to strand your adventurers.  Someone over-rides the generator, not to
blow it up or anything like that, but just to shut it down, and cross
connects the battery to the main grid.  Power plant goes down, batteries
drain, the ship goes dead.

"Oh my god Captain, I can't restart it.  We're all going to die!"

Maybe a potential or rejected patron would have someone do the sabotage,
just so the adventurers will have to deal with him or her (again if rejected
previously).  Hmmm...
_______________

I must be Travelling,

Richard
_______________

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 00:53:44 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Lifeboats

From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>


>T4 Starships, p6, states that you need (for Imperial registered ships)
>one rescue ball for each four passengers or crew.  There was a CT
>lifeboat detailed in one of the supplements (Traders & Gunboats?)
>which again stated, if I recall correctly, that lifeboats were mandatory.

I don't understand the problem.  A life boat is not a ship.  It's not even
really a boat.  I bet I could design one to carry 4 people in under a Td.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 00:57:14 -0600 (CST)
From: Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@io.com>
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

Quoth SemoFetus:
> It would be pages and pages of rules that would most likely be complicated,
> and not really all that needed, when role-playing it makes it simpler anyway.

Aha!  Another point in favor of GURPS: Traveller, and the alcohol rules
from the Callahan's worldbook....  :-)

- ----------------------------*------------------------*------------------------
 Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett  |"Nullum magnum ingenium | GURPS fan, Amiga user,
http://www.io.com/~jlockett | sine mixtura dementiae | Shakespearean scholar,
  Email: jlockett@io.com    | fuit." -- Seneca       | actor and director.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 00:59:06 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Tech notes

From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>


<snip>
>In the 20th century, firing up a nuclear reactor is a big deal, involving a lot of
>work. In Traveller times, the opposite must be true, or there wouldn't be so many
>reactors (i.e. power plants) around. Perhaps Imperial technology allows a quick and
>easy cold start.
>
>If so, then cold starts would become routine after a few days in port. Why keep the
>engine idling when nobody's on board?

Quick get away, of course.  Haven't you ever seen those gangster movies,
they always leave the engine idling.  :-)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 01:01:00 -0600 (CST)
From: Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@io.com>
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

Quoth Eris Reddoch:
> Religious belief isn't based, primarily, on reason anyway, it is based on
> faith, faith in the unreasonable, unprovable, *illuminated* truth.

....unless you're Anglican, of course.  :-)

(The Anglican Communion, including the Protestant Episcopal Church of
America, believes in basing its thought and practice on an equal tripod of
Reason, Tradition, and Scripture.  They balance each other out fairly
well, for the most part, though church politics are looking a bit
schismatic at present.  I hate to think what maintaining doctrinal
"purity" would be like when your frontier parishes are two years out from
the presiding bishop or general convention....)

- ----------------------------*------------------------*------------------------
 Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett  |"Nullum magnum ingenium | GURPS fan, Amiga user,
http://www.io.com/~jlockett | sine mixtura dementiae | Shakespearean scholar,
  Email: jlockett@io.com    | fuit." -- Seneca       | actor and director.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 22:41:30 -0800
From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <schoon@aimnet.com>
Subject: Re: Missiles

On 01/16/98 at 09:41 AM,  Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com> said:

> In CT and MT, conventional missiles were the rule.  In TNE (FFS), it was
>pointed out that there is a point at which lasers (being speed of light
>weapons) acting defensively against significantly slower weapons
>(missiles) can guarantee destruction.  This point is a significant
>distance from the target.

This assumes that the missiles can be detected and tracked at an adequate
range. If you don't notice them before their high velocity and 12G
maneuvers get in too close...

>(sigh) personally, I liked it in the CT days - if you could get that
>missile hit in, it could do up to 6 points of damage - real justification
>for a merchant to have at least one missile tube in his turret, even
>though it cost 25 Kcr a throw.  In T4, they just don't do that kind of
>damage.

True, but there are counters for laser fire as well, and sandcasters are
more efficient at picking off long range laser fire than close range
missile "hits."

eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch) wrote:

>What was finally decided about the "brilliant pebbles" kinetic kill
>missile?  Last I remember the general opinion was that they worked all too
>well, or do I have that wrong?

Seems to me they would work, but at longer ranges they'd still have to
maneuver to their targets, which in my eyes make them cheap missiles
without a warhead.


Schoon

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 22:47:25 -0800
From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <schoon@aimnet.com>
Subject: Re: Cool Minis

Michael D. Peters <Letterworks@Comten.com> wrote:

>On the subject of minis. I just picked up a couple of packets of Heavy-gear
>15mm. They're military types but in uniforms that, with a little
>modification and paint, can double as heavily armed civilians (typically the
>way my players see themselves any way, no matter what they are really
>carrying!!!!).

Just to be perfectly accurate; technically the Heavy Gear figs are 20mm

>By the way how many on the list are still playing in 15mm scale? I know that
>there are more minis out there in 25mm but I like the larger "table" top
>scale for 15mm. The half inch scale (from the old CT days) lets me print out
>scaled deck plans.

I WISH they were still making decent 15mm minis, but I'm afraid that
necessity has forced me into the world of 25mm.

....and even more I wish I'd bought a load of the 15mm stuff when it was
available. :-(


Schoon

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 03:00:37 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Guns of the Wild West

I'm looking for info on the specifics of guns in the Wild West, mainly stuff I
can work with using 3G3 to figure out damages, ranges, etc.  Does anyone know
where I can track down such info?  I've done a cursory search on the WWW but
have come up empty-handed.

I will appreciate any leads or info.

Thanks,
Semo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 01:27:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: THUDDD 8: Ready for voting!

THUDDD 8 (the Subsidized Merchant ship design competition) is ready for
voting.  Eight intriguing designs await your evaluation.  Visit the main
THUDDD site at

  http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/thuddd.html

and follow the link to THUDDD 8.  You may vote via web form elements right
on that page.  As always, do not vote for your own designs.

A new feature this time is a 'comments' box for each ship.  I'll collect
all comments and publish them after the competition ends. 

As always, contact me if you have any problems with voting.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 10:48:05 +0000
From: Bruce E J Lewis <bruce@legend.ftech.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Drakkar

At 22:25 16/01/98 -0500, Rob Miracle wrote:
>> Rob, you could have mentioned that the plug-in is several meg in size. I
was 
>> going to give it a try but when I say the message saying "time to
complete 1hr 
>> 35mins" I thought twice about it.
>
>I wish it wasn't as big, but Drakkar has a lot of graphics.  
>
	If you could at least put it on an FTP site instead then I could download
it in separate sessions using FTP Explorer or Cute FTP, as downloading via
Netscape won't allow me carry on downloading it from where I left off if I
lose the connection; we pay by the second for telephone time in the UK, and
I wouldn't like that time cost going to waste if I had to start again a few
times. Cheers.


	See ya...

Bruce E J Lewis - mailto:bruce@legend.ftech.co.uk
Telephone - 0956-506527

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 07:10:39 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Richard A. Flores wrote:

>      ^^On a more serious note:  Contrary to popular opinion, most
> Inquisitors were genuine men of God.  And did not prosecute the cases in the
> manner most people think of when the term "Inquisition" is used.
>
 
You mean...you MEAN they DON'T use The Comfy Chair???!!!

Bruce Johnson

(whose personal beliefs will not let him pass up a chance to make a
smartass 'Monty Python' reference)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 98 14:26 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Foundation

In-Reply-To: <v02140b06b0e4de6bdfd2@[192.121.125.205]>

Anders,

> >I tried reading it years ago, but never got more than half way through the
> >first book. Very disappointed. I may give it another go one day, but I've
> >already got a stack of unread books 2' high...
>  
> In Traveller we use metrics! How high was that stack again?
>  
> :-)

0.6096m.

Approximately.

Certainly enough to hurt when I drop them on your head...
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 07:35:48 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gun Geeks

On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Merrick Burkhardt wrote:
> 
> I have guns, and I'm a geek, so I guess I *am* a gun geek. Geek
> isn't a nasty word, either :-P  Geeks rule the world one way or another.
> You have a computer, you play RPGs---hell, you're a geek, too!
> Everybody that reads this is a geek. Geeks of the world unite!

Well said, Merrick! My first instinct at a reply was "Whoa...chill, dude!
No more caffeine for you!" (Speaking of course, as every Republican's
nightmare...a heavily armed liberal ;-)

Geeks of the World Unite, you have nothing to lose but the Jocks beating
you up!

Now I think I understand why Paul Allen is so keen on owning his sports
team...he can order them stuffed in _their_ lockers ;-)
  
> Ob Traveller ;-) Consider the militia movement on some backwater
> planet... they have automatic slug throwers, even a few explosives
> and some light armored ground vehicles. They intend to keep the
> TL-15 Imperium from squashing their rights? If they can't put up a
> real fight they should probably just shoot at paper and not play
> make belive, I'd think (that or try to get some grav tanks and
> spacecraft).
>

They do what guerilla movements have done forever...needle the Impies
until they either get real nasty, preferably in front of some well
regarded and placed journalists who can let all the bleeding hearts back
in Core how badly these poor people are being treated, or they make deals
with the Imperium's enemies. (Ine Givar, anyone??)

Of course, if there aren't any bleeding hearts back in Core, the Imperium
gets to be a brutal nasty place to be, because it's clear from Milieu Zero
that the Imperium was founded on the nastiest excesses of
the-ends-justify-the-means Imperialism we've ever seen. (The Zhunastu
rules of contact are pure Machiavelli) The rich get richer, the poor get
poorer, and soon the Imperium settles into a rigid caste society like the
Ziru Sirrka before it (any one who thinks Victorian England wasn't a rigid
caste society had best go back and look at the history books!) ripe for
plucking. Hmmm, then Dulinor decides to try plucking it...looks like the
seeds of the Rebellion were planted very early indeed! 


Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 08:08:21 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Guns of the Wild West

What kind of info do you need? There is a Wild West Shooters organization,
sort of an 1800's SCA type organization. On good reference to black powder
wepons (I assume this is what you mean) is the Black Powder Handbook,
available in the library, or Dixie Gunworks catalog, which is a
fascinating read.

If you need things like muzzle velocities, etc, try the various reloading
manuals, look for black powder cartrige sections.

There's a loading manual for black powder guns that gives that data for a
large number of pistols, and damned if I can remember the name of it.
Check out the library.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, SemoFetus wrote:

> I'm looking for info on the specifics of guns in the Wild West, mainly stuff I
> can work with using 3G3 to figure out damages, ranges, etc.  Does anyone know
> where I can track down such info?  I've done a cursory search on the WWW but
> have come up empty-handed.
> 
> I will appreciate any leads or info.
> 
> Thanks,
> Semo
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 10:54:49 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Calculating Stellar Mass

In a message dated 98-01-17 01:26:41 EST, you write:

<< 
 I can't find the reference to stellar densities.  If I run across it, I'll
 post it later.  >>

Stellar Mass is "defined" by spectral class.
For each spectral class and luminosity class , the mass in solar units is on
this table.

Marc Miller



Spectral Class	Mass (V)	Mass (III)	Mass (I)
O3	120	-	140
O5	60	-	70
O8	37	-	40
O9	23	-	28
B0	17.5	20	25
B3	7.6	-	-
B5	5.9	7	20
B8	3.8	-	-
A0	2.9	4	16
A5	2	-	13
F0	1.6	-	12
F5	1.4	-	10
G0	1.05	1	10
G5	0.92	1.1	12
K0	0.79	1.1	13
K5	0.67	1.2	13
M0	0.51	1.2	13
M2	0.4	1.3	19
M5	0.21	-	24
M8	0.06	-	-

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 98 04:11 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Religion Careers (fwd)

Moin Eris Reddoch,

> Just like there are all kinds of religious/political/cultural beliefs on
> Earth today there should be all kinds of beliefs scattered across Known
> Space.  A lot of the fun of Traveller is putting the PC's in *different*
> environments and having them react. These different environments don't
> always have to be physical environments, either.

	my art of refereeing traveller has mainly two kind of plots forming
	about 80% of my stories. The first one is the boat plot, everybody
	is in the boat, and until end of the week nobody can go out. The
	other is the foraign culture shock, players will have when visting
	a new world. Ursula K.L.Guin (think I've missspelled it) or Lem had
	made some stories around that culture shock.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 00:35:22
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Customs checks and fusion stuff

At 12:25 AM 17/01/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>ObTrav - this is how my Imperium runs.  They only pull away nukes because
>of the very real chance that those could turn nobody political
>organizations into somebody political organizations.  It is cheaper to
>forbid and inspect than to give away nuke dampers.
>
>Scott

Lazy customs officers streamline the inspection. Just ask "you got any
fissionables on board ?", then spray the ship with a nuke damper. Works
like a a dream.

>Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 22:25:26 -0500
>From: Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com>
>Subject: Re: Tech notes
>
>At 9:57 PM -0500 1/16/98, Richard A. Flores wrote:
>>Canonically speaking, "Fusion plants normally require a fractional second
>>startup pulse from storage banks [batteries] equal to their output, and such
>>a storage bank is included in the mass of any fusion plant." (CSC p 61)
>
>The first thing I'd do on a fighter, then, is rip out the storage bank
>and let the carrier fire them up.  This would save on mass, which is
>critical in a fighter.  There are probably other kinds of ships which
>would do this, too.
>
>Bolie IV

True, but fighters will IMO usually be using either batteries or The
Abomonation Known As Fusion Plus, as the minimum sizes for Fusion plants
are now too big for cost-effective use in small craft.

The other thing is that batteries are pretty efficient. I suspect that the
battery to kick-start the fusion plant is only about a hundred ccs or so.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 02:02:58
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Darrians

Jim asked about Darrians.

This is off memory, and I'm sure other people can remember better than I do.

The Darrians were a small, isolated group of Humaniti in the Spinward
Marches who got contacted by Solomani emigres during the Long Night (a
company based in Izmir, Turkey, Terra pulled the big relocate to avoid the
Long Night related depression).

They went from TL3 to TL12 in about 50 years with the assistance of the
migrants and proceeded to keep advancing technologically, past that
achieved in the RoM.

They peaked at TL 16, 17 in some fields, when the Magriz happened.
Essentially, some researchers were mucking around with a research project
on the Darrian home system's sun (I think it involved meson beams), and
they triggered a nova.

Whammie. Game over man. Massive technological regression, wave front that
fries electronics etc for 12 parsecs around (progressing at the speed of
light, so the colonies got some warning) etc etc etc.

By the time the Darrians got back into space, the Sword Worlds and Zhodani
were nearby. The Darrians claimed they had the Ultimate Weapon, the Star
Trigger, and no-one argued. It actually took about 600 years before they
figured out how to turn what they had into a viable weapon. 

They pulled a bluff on their neighbours - they developed damn good
techniques to detect oncoming novas (funny thing that ... do stars have
repeat novas, like people have repeat heart attacks ?), and they found one
well in advance and told their neighbours they were going to blow up this
sun, just to make sure the Star Trigger still worked.

Needless to say, the Darrians didnt get seriously annoyed by the Zhodani.
Politically, they have served as a balance to the Sword Worlds, and they
developed a fair amount of friendship with the Imperium.

OK. Darrian culture values research and innovation highly. Their main art
form is "flame sculptures", which are maintained by a combination of
contra-gravity, fuel and oxygen jets to create living sculptures of fire.
They arent militaristic (although someone somewhere on the list once ran a
campaign with a Darrian AI ship who was ranked, at Lietenent Colonel,
higher than the players and would countermand their orders when neccessary)
but have a good, professional navy (mostly TL 12-13 by 1100, but with a
couple of relic TL16 ships). 

Thats about what I remember. Can someone with a copy of the Darrians Aliens
module give me a mark out of ten ?

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #5
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Saturday, January 17 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 006



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Commentary on designs from Svenson Small Craft LIC
Militias, Missiles, Nukes and Interstellar Economics
Re: Religion Careers
Re: Cool Minis
Re: Gun Geeks
Re: Prisoner - was Sayat conspiracy
Re: Lifeboats
Re: Religion & Drugs
Re: Religion Careers
Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography
Re: Stations/Port/Bases: Plans and Designs
Re: Foundation
Re: spaceport authority customs
Re: Missiles

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 01:42:57
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Commentary on designs from Svenson Small Craft LIC

>From: "Svenson, Gregory (FL51)" <gsvenson@space.honeywell.com>
>Subject: Re: Lifeboats
>
>With all of the discussion of lifeboats I decided to try to design a
>minimal one that could be used from a jettison bay with Andrew Akins
>spreadsheet. Here is the result:

<design deleted>

>
>LB4SS,  class Lifeboat (FF&S v2)				
>Designed by Greg Svenson				
>		
I have a funny feeling that this design violates the minimum size of
thruster plates. Apart from that, I would immediatly sandpaper the hull
down to bare metal ... you *want* a high sensor profile in a lifeboat. 

I would also go for at least partial streamlining, just in case you
actually are near enough a planet with a breathable atmosphere.

It also needs a laser comm, which I feel would be more common in space than
radios (long range radios are too big and take up too much surface area).
The radio is useful, as it can just signal "Mayday" forever.

I would also add a set of solar panels, to keep the corpisicles chilled and
power the radio.

The armour factor also needs to go up to 20, to protect against
micrometeorites.

>
>Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:31:39 -0500
>From: "Svenson, Gregory (FL51)" <gsvenson@space.honeywell.com>
>Subject: Light Fighter
>
>I made a stab at creating the Light Fighter from the T4 Starships book
>using FFS2. I used Andrew Akins spreadsheet (vsn. 1.6) to do the design.
>Here is the result. Your comments and suggestions for improvements are
>greatly appreciated.
>
>Light Fighter, Sylean class Light Fighter (FF&S v2)
>
>Designed by Greg Svenson				
>				
>Statistics				
>Tons: 10std ( AF Wedge Hypersonic )	Crew: 1/1	Cargo: 0std (0/0
>/Pod:1x1std)
>Volume: 140m3		Passengers High/Med: 0/0	Cost: 20.089 MCr
>Mass (L/C): 168t/143t		Passengers Low: 0	Maintenance
>Points: 20
>Dimensions: 16.2m x 11.1m x 4.6m	Troops/Science: 0/0	Tech

If you have surface area left over, you might want to make the craft more
spherical. This will reduce surface area, and thus the amount of armour the
craft needs. OTOH surface area tends to be an important limit for warships.

>Level: 12
>Size: 7		Frozen Watch: 0(0 group)	
>				
>Electronics				
>Controls: Dynamic, High automation. 2xFltComp (CM:0.4 CP:2.5). Terrain
>following
>          sensors (TF:480, NOE:160). No bridge.

I dont like only flight computers. A small real computer would provide help
with targeting solutions and similar complex problems. Keep the flight
computers as backups.

>Communications: 1xRadio (50,000km, 0.02MW). 1xLaser (1,000AU, 0.00MW).

Is the craft likely to need a 1000 AU laser comm ? If so, keep it. If not,
downgrade and save some credits.

>Sensors: 1xFld PEMS (12.5 [1.6mkm] Fld, 0.00MW). 1xFld AEMS (11 [.16mkm]
>Fld,
>         0.25MW). 1xLIDAR (13.5 [50kkm], 0.10MW).

My instincts say dump the AEMS and upgrade the LIDAR. You have a detection
range of 5 light seconds or so with the PEMS, so you should detect the
enemy well outside weapons range.

The alternative is to eliminate the AEMS and add an auxilary PEMS, in case
of combat damage.

>Survey/Science:
>ECM:
>Signatures: Vis:-1.5, IR:-1.0 (-1.0 at 22MW, -1.0 at 4MW), Act:-0.5,
>Neu:-2, Grav:-1			
>				
>Weaponry
>1xFixed Laser (+0) 1/2-0-0-0 [1,100/20-10-5-2] (LR)

Whats the megajoulage on this laser ? Whatever it is, increase it to as
close to the TL maximum of 600 MJ as you can, sacrificing ROF if
neccessary. You want a weapon that hurts the enemy, not pisses them off.

>
>Performance
>		0	Jump
>		5.1/6.0	Maneuver (/Thruster:21MW)
>		0.0/0.0	Contra-grav 
>3,965kph/4,249kph	Atmosphere (/Crus:2,974kph/3,187kph)
>		8	Power (/Fus+:39MW,168.0)
>		0.0	Fuel

What sort of duration does the fighter have ?

>		0/0/0/0/0	Accomodations 
>		1	Life Sup. (/Ty:St,Nm /'St)
>		2	G-Comp 

The pilot is going to be pulling 4  uncompensated gees. I'd suggest going
for 3 gees of compensation and a g-couch.

>		0	ESA
>		0	Sandcasters
>		0	Damper Turrets
>		0	Damper Screen 
>		0	Meson Screen 
>		0	Force Field
>		0	Gravtics
>		0 [20]	Armor
>		2	Structure

I also strongly suggest building a variant with less gees and thicker
armour, and a sandcaster if you can possibly cram one in.

AF 20 can be penetrated by civilian 250 MJ lasers. Not nice.

>				
>Features
>1xAirlock
>1xstorage(0.28std ea.)

Airlocks. Something I always forget in a ship. I always used to forget the
tyres in Car Wars, too.

>				
>Crew Details
>1xMnvr.
>
>The major difference is that I put a 1 ton weapons pod on it. There is
>no extra power to operate weapons in the weapons pod. So, it has to be
>self contained. If the weapons pod is not used you can take advantage of
>the full (unloaded performance) of the design. 
>
>I was not able to design it for 18 MCr without sacrificing the sensors
>and communications which I felt was unacceptable. This design costs
>20.089 MCr which I feel is pretty close to the Starships version...

>

It's a cool low threat level fighter. Good for anti-piracy work (add a
couple of det laser missiles in the weapons bay).



Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 01:11:54
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Militias, Missiles, Nukes and Interstellar Economics

At 08:51 PM 16/01/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Tr
>Ob Traveller ;-) Consider the militia movement on some backwater
>planet... they have automatic slug throwers, even a few explosives
>and some light armored ground vehicles. They intend to keep the
>TL-15 Imperium from squashing their rights? If they can't put up a
>real fight they should probably just shoot at paper and not play
>make belive, I'd think (that or try to get some grav tanks and
>spacecraft).
>
>- -Merrick
>

Yeah. This is also what tends to happen to underarmed militias that go play
with real militaries that have air and armour support. They either have to
become politically equipped for a guerrilla war or they get wiped out in
short order.

Getting grav tanks and spaceships may also be difficult if the Imperium
doesnt want you to have them (or lets people know that selling them to you
on credit is a bad idea, becasue you are planning to go play with the IN).

>Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:51:03 -0800
>From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
>Subject: Re: Missiles
>
>At 05:24 PM 1/16/98 -0600, Eris wrote:
>>What was finally decided about the "brilliant pebbles" kinetic kill
>>missile?  Last I remember the general opinion was that they worked all too
>>well, or do I have that wrong?
>
>They work just wonderfully, given that the thruster plate drive is pretty
>near to a free energy machine.  Even Heplar-powered devices are somewhat
>scary, but if you let them get any serious accel time in, it becomes way,
>way out of line.

Nope. T-plates have a minimum size, which puts the cost of a t-plate
powered missile at over MCr 2.5

I'd need someone who knows more about active sensors than I do to give a
definitive answer, but I suspect you could identify and track a ball
bearing at 10 000km, and then fry the ones on an intercept course with a
laser.

Unless someone can make a non-det laser work, then missiles are essentially
a military weapon in the Traveller universe.

>
>Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:47:55 +0000
>From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com>
>Subject: Re: spaceport authority customs
>
>My gearhead cohort and I have been looking at the damage of 
>conventional warheads, and the size/weight. It should be fairly easly 
>to cram 12 guided HEAP warheads into a missle, and assuming a 50 to 
>91% miss rate, generate a d6 hits with respecitable damage. (using 
>FFS v1.0... our local game store is slow slow they just realised that 
>MT was no longer shipping).. :)
>

If the other side has a laser, a decent active sensor and decent
fire-control software, it'll never hit. 

>That was our awnser.. Civies do not _get_ nukes. (well, unless they 
>talk to Guido over there.. but heck.. just try sneaking a nuke past 
>Star Port Security
>
>"Uhh. .Son.. what is that thing on the trailer?"
>
>"It's un.. uh..  uh.. Probe.. Yeah..."
>
>"Why is my giger counter going crasy near it?
>
>"Uhh.. Uhh.. we used it on a fusion.. err.. fission powerplant?")
>

*grin* Just nod, agree that there are no fissionables on the ship, get them
to countersign the paperwork saying so, and then wave a nuke damper node
over the ship.

>
>Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:45:53 -0800
>From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
>Subject: Definitions for infrastructure, trade, and tech level
>
>
>In the process of redoing the data in FS, I am reconsidering the effects of
>TL on trade.
>
>How do the following assumptions sound?
>
>1.  Tech level is the most important determiner of GNP in the game.  A TL
>change represents a factor of 2, and a change from 1 to 2 is the same
>relative change as 11 to 12.
>2. Infrastructure and resources are half as important as TL.
>2. Port, gas giants, and belts are half as important as infrastructure
>3.  Sylea is a wealthy world in M0.  The average PCGWP of a TL 12 world
>with a class C port, average resources, and an average number of gas giants
>and asteroid belts is ~10KCr.
>

Scott, stick with the assumptions in Pocket Empires. Generate and plug in
Economic Extention numbers (resources, culture, labour and infrastructure)
and calculate the GWPs from there. We dont need a Canon Source (FS mk 2)
that disagrees with the Canon Rules (Pocket Empires). 

>Thus, the full range of tech levels, from 0 to 15 represents a difference
>of 32000 in the price of manufactured goods.  I am assuming that a more
>"reasonable" difference for two trading partners would be roughly three
>tech levels, or a factor of 8.  Sylean goods selling here, would be worth
>between 8 and 16 times what they were on Sylea, or, alternatively, we would
>have to give up a tremendous amount of stuff to get each F+ plant.

This only works for goods that are being bought because they are useful.
Status goods, or goods bought *because* they embody labour (eg handmade
rugs), are not going to follow these rules.

These goods are a signifigant part of luxury goods trade.

Or to put it another way ... building a fusion plant requires skill,
machinery and raw materials. Painting a masterpiece requires genius. You
can always train more skill, build more machinery and access more raw
materials but genius only comes along so often.

Fusion plus is also a bad example, because it is one of the more useless
technologies in that it does not allow the impossible, it only makes the
possible more efficient.

The two killer TL12 technologies are the nuclear damper and the meson
screen, both because they allow what is absolutely impossible at TL11 and
below.

Contragravity is also useful - it reduces the effort of getting orbital by
99%. It would take, what, two TL10 big air rafts to replace the Space
Shuttle ?

The other killer technology is, of course, the Jump Drive.

>
>This makes the existence of labels like "Stellar" more sensible - traders
>will likely trade within a band, as that band represents the capital they
>can amass, and the markets that can afford their goods.  It would be
>unlikely for there to be a lot of cross talk between agricultural,
>industrial, stellar, and high stellar goods.  when there is, a world, or a
>trader becomes very wealthy.

Completely disagree. You have an entire spectrum of status and cultural
goods, which will walk across technological bands.

>
>Consider - under normal circumstances, a trader cannot carry off enough
>wheat to justify a single fusion plus unit, so they likely do not get any
>buyers at all at the "real" price of 4000 times what they paid.  Instead,
>the locals might put together a hundred people's work to buy the unit.  The
>trader might have been better off hauling off fine machined goods from a
>different high tech world to the asteroid colony that made the fusion plus
>plant.  If the asteroid world has a disaster and the hydroponics tanks go
>deal, then they might suddenly be willing to pay far, far more for that
>wheat than one would at first think, and a trader with a cargo of wheat
>might be able to swap it for an entire hold of fusion plus units.

If the asteroid miners like "real bread" from far away, and are willing to
pay Cr 2 per 1 liter loaf for it, thats a cargo worth Cr 28 000 per dton.
Sure, they can eat machine made goop that looks tastes and feels like real
bread, but it isnt real bread. And a man has to spend his pay on something ...

>
>Does this sound reasonable?  It seems like the only way to explain the
>tremendously slow creep of tech levels, such that there are still
>substantial tech level differences in the 1100 era.  In addition, it
>explains why so few colonies worked out.  They did not have sufficient
>wealth to set up the infrastructure they needed.

Nope. Financial intermediaries (eg Hortalez et Cie) are part of Traveller
background. Your friendly local megacorporation will lend you the money to
develop your planet, if they consider you a good risk. They may even put up
the money themselves, if they think it is worth it.

The range of TLs can be explained by a world's TL being it's level of local
manufacturing. They have lots of higher TL stuff, they just dont make it here.

>
>I am also assigning life ratings, which run from 0-10 with bonuses.

Coolness. I would suggest 0-15, which is what most other Trav rating go
from and to.
This rating will help referees describe a world - is it a Tainted thin
atmospere becasue it is a barely cooled lump of rock, or does it have
ecosystems that will make the entire University of Sylea Biology Department
pay triple high passage to get there ?

>
>Resources run from 0-10, and a world with TL 8 and a class D port can add
>in half the belts and gas giants, making the maximum rating 12.5.  Is is
>reasonable for a single world to have 32 times the recoverable resources of
>another?  Can space based industry multiply that by a factor of ~6?
>Charles Sheffield thinks so, and I believe him.

No. Do not invalidate Pocket Empires !

This applies in spades to the rest of your calculations (which were
admittedly cool).

>Scott
>Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
>"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
>results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
>"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 09:59:37 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

"Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> writes:
>1.) Tradition in many religious organizations is sufficient justification
>      for just about anything.
>     "We have always done it that way.  I guess we always will."
>     I will never forget a discussion I was in regarding modern
>translations
>of
>     the Bible.  One of the participants, a very dear and pig-headed
>     friend of mine, said, "Why change, the KJV has been working
>     just fine for the last 400 years."  I heard of someone else who
>     said, "It's the Authorized version."  No offense, but who
>     authorized it anyway?  (FYI: it was King James (I of England)
>     (aka James VI, king of Scotland).)

- ------
I would also note (from personal experience) that for many (possibly most)
people "always" translates as one generation, three at most.  Anything
further back than living menory is "ancient history", not "hallowed
tradition".  

For example, some* of the gray-haired parishioners at my Anglican church
complain about any hymn that doesn't have organ music; they want
_traditional_ hymns.  When I point out that organs were an innovation of
the mid-19th century, that before that most Anglican churches had bands
playing whatever instruments they had, and that some of their favourite
"traditional music" was actually composed for the music-hall stage, they
say things like "you know what I mean" and "no respect for tradition".

*Note the word "some".  Not all the older folks are like this, and
(unfortunately) some of the younger ones are.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 08:00:05 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Cool Minis

Has anyone else looked at the 25mm figs for Stargrunt?  Several different
armies, each with a variety of troops, including the New Anglican Marines
in very Travelleresque Battle Dress.

These are well sculpted, don't suffer from the Games Workshop "BFG" problem
(when measured in scale, pistols are 70cm long and 35cm high, for
example.), and are even posed in realistic positions.  The only drawbacks
are extensive falsh and sprues, and a lack of detail around the face.
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 08:05:18 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Gun Geeks

At 06:05 PM 1/16/98 -0700, you wrote:

>Ob Traveller ;-) Consider the militia movement on some backwater
>planet... they have automatic slug throwers, even a few explosives
>and some light armored ground vehicles. They intend to keep the
>TL-15 Imperium from squashing their rights? If they can't put up a
>real fight they should probably just shoot at paper and not play
>make belive, I'd think (that or try to get some grav tanks and
>spacecraft).

Remember the Liberator .45in Flare Projector?  Built by the OSS for the
French Resistance, it was a single-shot, 1/2" barreled pistol.  The idea
was that you killed a German soldier and took his weapon.

Your rag-tag band of rebels might get ahold of a resonable cache of arms
that way.
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 03:46:30 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Prisoner - was Sayat conspiracy

In mail you write:

> On 01/16/98 at 04:10 AM,  "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net> said:
>
>>>>>         "Who is number one?"
>  
>>>>>         "You are, number 6."
>
>>>>You've got to be kidding me?  All these years and the answer was under my
>>>>nose?!!!
>
>>>Ah, come on!  You mean you *didn't* know?  I thought the last episode
>>>completely cleared up who was number 1..I know it did, in fact.
>
>>Not so fast!  Yes he unmasked himself, but when he returned to London, the
>>door to his flat opened itself to admit the Butler!  Also, the endof the
>>series was a reply of the opening credits.. Is Number 6 free? Or is fredom
>>an illusion that he can now see through?
>
> Exactly!  It completely cleared up who was number 1, it didn't clear up
> what was going on.  ;-> Was it an alligory?  Was it a drug induced
> hallusination?  Was it a mental delusion?  Was it a simple cop out by the
> writers who couldn't figure out how to end the series?  Whatever it was,
> was in the mind of the beholder, and a *real* gas!

Don't forget that the whole series was Patrick McGoohan's baby. So I
*really* doubt that there was much "can't figure out what to do" involved.

It occurs to me that a group of players who "knew too much" could be
dumped in The Village. And whether or not they'd seen the series, it'd
drive them *nuts*. After all, The Village is *clearly* on a seacoast.
Except that in at least one episode, #6 headed away from the coast and
found himself looking down into a valley from *way* up in the mountains
(without having climbed noticeably from The Village).

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 03:54:26 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Lifeboats

In mail you write:

> From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
>
>
>>T4 Starships, p6, states that you need (for Imperial registered ships)
>>one rescue ball for each four passengers or crew.  There was a CT
>>lifeboat detailed in one of the supplements (Traders & Gunboats?)
>>which again stated, if I recall correctly, that lifeboats were mandatory.
>
> I don't understand the problem.  A life boat is not a ship.  It's not even
> really a boat.  I bet I could design one to carry 4 people in under a Td.

I seriously doubt it. What are they going to use for *air*? And,
assuming enough air, you also have to deal with the rest of life
support. In order of importance:

1. heating/cooling (you can fry or freeze depending on conditions)
2. removal of CO2
3. toilet facilities
4. water
5. food

You can futz with the lower priority items, depending on how long you
expect the lifeboat to occupied.

1. Required for anything over a few *minutes*
2. Required for an hour or more
3. required for 6 or more hours
4. required for a day or more
5. required for multiday occupancy.

And they'll need comm gear. At least a distress beacon. And a medical
kit. Attitude thrusters may be needed as part of the temp control
system. 

And I disagree with a previous poster. If all you need to do is get the
lifeboat away from the ship (a few g-minutes? more likely less than a
g-minute) it's hard to beat simple solid fuel rockets for both cost
*and* reliability. Especially for something that may not get used for
*years*. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 05:36:35 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Religion & Drugs

In mail you write:

> <twine tentacles in deep gratification>
>
> Soon, soon, we'll have you all smoking drug drug through rolled-up copies
> of _Starships_ and _First Survey_ while sacrificing kidnapped homosexual
> babies at Lenin's mausoleum.  Yes!  And your little dogs too!
>
> <caper in silent glee>
>
> M. Kenji

Kenji, Just what *is* it with you and this "capering ... glee" thing?
Are you related to Fnordykins over on soc.subculture.bondage or
something? 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 10:16:00 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

>>...I do wonder how you would defend the idea of a male-only clergy for
>the

>>gender-neutral Traveller setting.  Not flame trolling here, I sincerely welcome any
>>good reasons to do something such as [was suggested].


At least one of the arguments I've heard advanced is that because Christ's
disciples were all men, only men can be priests.  

When I mentioned that Christ had many disciples, and that women are
mentioned as members of his "entourage", the priest I was talking to
changed that to apostles.

I pointed out that no apostles were Philipino either (he was), so by that
argument he couldn't be a priest.  (He was the pastor of a fundamentalist
Philipino Baptist church.)  I was told that I didn't know how to interpret
Scripture.  (This was a church where a woman could deliver a sermon about
how women should behave, citing Scripture to support her view that they
should cover their heads in public, yet ignoring the next verse in the
same book that also says that they shouldn't speak in church.  Consistency
wasn't an issue, apparently.)

Not trying to undercut anyone's religious beliefs here.  For the record,
although I'm warden of an Anglican church and am studying to become a lay
reader, I spent a long time ignoring the whole issue of religion except as
an academic exercise.  Then I lost enough close friends that I needed to
believe in souls.  Sometimes I even manage to, but I wouldn't call myself
devout.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 98 17:24 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography

In-Reply-To: <VA.000005c3.004626e1@taz>

Simon,

> Can you remind me of the WHite Dwarf issue number that had the starport maps in?

From memory it was 42, or thereabouts.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 10:48:04 +0000
From: John Wood <John@elvw.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Stations/Port/Bases: Plans and Designs

Anders Backman <anders.backman@aniware.se> asked,
>>One example I haven't seen mentioned: Ken & Jo Walton's Sintra Station,
>>in Arcane 7.  Plan's a bit weird, but I particularly like the short
>>character writeups.
>
>Eh, is it on the web, an article, a supplement or what?
>Please illuminate the unenlightened.

Sorry - I guess I was rushing too much.  Arcane was a British magazine, 
and it was an article in issue 7 - not specifically Traveller, but not 
conflicting with the basic assumptions so quite usable.
 
John

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 05:15:37 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Foundation

In mail you write:

>>I tried reading it years ago, but never got more than half way through the
>>first book. Very disappointed. I may give it another go one day, but I've
>>already got a stack of unread books 2' high...
>
> In Traveller we use metrics! How high was that stack again?

60 cm. (remember, he's giving a round figure!)

> :-)
- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 04:52:14 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: spaceport authority customs

In mail you write:

> talk to Guido over there.. but heck.. just try sneaking a nuke past 
> Star Port Security
>
> "Uhh. .Son.. what is that thing on the trailer?"
>
> "It's un.. uh..  uh.. Probe.. Yeah..."
>
> "Why is my giger counter going crasy near it?
>
> "Uhh.. Uhh.. we used it on a fusion.. err.. fission powerplant?")

Some kinds of fusion powerplants *do* induce radioactivity. 

On the other hand, a nuke warhead will *not* trigger a geiger counter
at any appreciable range. The fissionables *aren't* all that
radioactive (half-life in the millions of years IRRC). And they mostly
emit alpha particles, which can be stopped by a sheet of tinfoil. 

Want some fun? Buy a mantle for a Coleman lantern. place it near a
geiger counter. The counter *will* register. You see, that *bright*
white glow is due to thorium oxide....

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 05:28:17 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Missiles

In mail you write:

> (forgive me if my physics are way off but here goes)
>
> Kinetic energy is a result of vector and mass.
>
> Thruster plates change vector (even if simply used for skipping 
> around the system).
>
> How can a change in vector not change the KE potental of an object? 
> Unless 1) the mass goes down, 2) vector is not changed (al la jump).

Simple. While the plate is on, inertial mass is greatly reduced. When
you turn it off, you resume your original inertial mass, which means
that your vector shortens *considerably*. 

The simplests case to calculate is where the inertial mass is reduced
to zero. In that case, when you cut the drive, you resume your original
vector (magnitude and direction). 

For partial neutralization it gets messier. But your final vector is
still based on the original vector, just modified by the "new one. If
forget how the percentages go. I worked it out once, but I don't have
the formulas handy.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #6
********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Saturday, January 17 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 007



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Calculating Stellar Mass
Re: Calculating Stellar Mass
Re: Religion Careers
Re: Tech notes
Re: Tech notes
Re: spaceport authority customs
Re: spaceport authority customs
UK: Traveller products at low prices
Re: Religion Careers
Re: Customs checks and fusion stuff
Re: Tech notes
Re: Gun Geeks
Re: Missiles
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #3
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #3
Re: Darrians
Re: Customs checks and fusion stuff
Re: Gun Aficianodos
Re: Microfoil - "New" Item for Traveller
Re: Cool Minis
Re: Cool Minis

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 17:33:59 GMT
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Calculating Stellar Mass

According to an astronomy text book I have, there is a mass-luminosity 
relationship (shown in a graph in the book) as well as a T^4 
relationship between temperature (aka spectral class) and Luminosity.

Mass from Luminosity
====================
I decided to fit a straight line to the stellar data from Scouts (CT 
Book 6) ... luckily I did not have to type the data in, as Rob Prior 
has it as part of his most-useful Worldbuilders spreadsheet for Excel.

For everything except dwarf stars (type VII) the linear approximation 
is:

ln(Lum) = 3.5 ln(Mass)

or

ln(Mass) = ln(Lum) / 3.5

Where Lum and Mass are in solar units (Lum = 1 for the sun; Mass = 1 
for the sun).

For dwarf stars (type VII) I have fitted a quadratic:

ln(Lum) = (4.7062 ln(Mass) + 0.9798) ln(Mass) - 10.387

or

ln(Mass) = (0.0396 ln(Lum) + 0.3567 ) ln(Lum) - 0.6059

Radius from Luminosity
======================
Lum = 4 pi R^2 sigma T^4

Where sigma is the Stefan-Boltzmann constant.  If we want to use Solar 
units for Lum and stellar radius, then I calculate that

sigma = 7.1 e-17

Note that the Luminosity/radius relationship does not fit all of the 
data in Scouts ... this may be due to the use of visual (rather than 
all-wavelength) data for determining luminosity.  Perhaps someone more 
expert than me can tell us that. 

Simon

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 05:16:56 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Calculating Stellar Mass

In mail you write:

> How do you calculate the mass of a star when all you know about it is
> it's luminosity and color temperature?  I know that you can calculate
> the surface area of the star, and from there the radius using the
> Stefan-Boltzmann Law.  I cannot seem to find any way to calculate the
> mass, even though I would think that you could do it if you knew it's
> spectrum, luminosity, and radius.

You have to cross-index againts the H-R diagram. :-(

For a given spectral class, in many cases there are *two* possible
locations on the chart. For example, an M star could could a red dwarf
on the main sequence, *or* a red giant and well *off* the main
sequence. 

The only way to distinguish the two is by luminosity. Radiius only
comes in as a sort of "side effect".

This will also give you the *age* of the star. You see, the *real*
determinants with regards to stars are mass and age. Temp and
luminosity are "derived" from those. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 05:04:58 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

In mail you write:

>    Why?  Well for starters, referees are not necessarily good actors. 
> Chances are during a role-playing session you're going to have to play
> the part of a priest/shaman/etc. from that religion, and it helps your
> ability to improvise out the scene if you have a feel for how they
> should react to a given situation or set of stimulus.  For example, it
> is unlikely that a priest who's faith believes in strict pacifism is
> going to pick up a gun and start shooting at bad guys, even if a group
> of PCs' lives are in danger (he may shoot into the air to scare off the
> assailants).

I refer you to the incident during one of the early waris in America,
where a bunch of Quakers (most *definitely* pacifists) prevented an
attack on their town by setting up a cannon pointing down the road the
enemy would be approaching on. 

The enemy decided that given the lack of cover, they'd go bother
somebody else. Much later, when asked how they could *do* such a thing,
the Quakers replied that they never *loaded* the cannon!

This may be the origin of the joke about the Quaker confronting a
burglar. Said Quaker is clutching his hunting rifle and says:
"Friend, I would not harm thee for the world. But thou standest where I
am about to shoot!"

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 04:07:29 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Tech notes

In mail you write:

> At out power house we use a "Black Start" generator, gasoline poweres AC
> system that provides minimuim power for contorls and electronics needed to
> bring the boilers and Gas Turbine online.
>
> Back in the '50-60's (when the boilers were still fired largely by hand) a
> steam turbine driven generator was put on line first to provide power to
> lighting and switch gear operators.
>
> NOTHING is more scary than being in the middle of a power plant and
> listening to the generators wind down as the lights go out! This happened
> SEVERAL times back inthemid-80 to our plant, when we made the converson over
> to computer/DCS controls, until they worked the program and interface bugs
> out
>
> Re: Trav
>
> Maybe an more archaic design emergency generator is used, perhaps tied
> through a small HePLAR? Wasn' t that the one that generated power as well?
> (Sorry don't have my books available).

You'd appreciate what happened at one of New Yorks major hospitals when
the blackout hit. They'd recently installed an emergency generator and
so the engineer on duty confidently pressed the start button....

And nothing happened. Their generator had an *electric* fuel pump, and
no batteries. They had to drege fuel out of the tank, and run spare
tubing up several flights of stairs to get enough pressure to start the
motor. 

Another hospital had a better designed backup system. It switched over
automatically, and everything was going fine. Except that it was in a
sub-basement. Next to the river. And the sump pump wasn't on the
emergency power board. By the time they realized the sub-basement was
flooding, it was too late to hook the pumps up. So the generator
drowned.

I include the above as examples for referees to use when their players
don't think a problem thru. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 04:15:55 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Tech notes

In mail you write:

> On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Anders Backman wrote:
>> In my universe all fusion plants have built in batteries for three colds
>> start attempts, aqfter that no dice in the world would make it start. I
>> have a rare entry in my ship encounter tables for trader in need of start
>> power - a great way to give players rumors, try hijacking them or exercise
>> your favourite Hans Solo clone npc.
>
> What about a rechargeable batter?  This is what cars do today... seems
> like that far in the future the same kind of thing would be available.

I can see shutting down the plant because the engineer wants to
"tinker" with something. As with a modern ship, you tend to keep some
onboard power going (even *commercial* vessels of any size tend to have
multiple generators), simply because generating it yourself is cheaper
than paying for a power feed from the dock (ships use a *lot* of
power). Also, in some of the more remote ports, the local power isn't
what you want to trust your ship's gear too. Too many fluctuations in
voltage and frequency.

When you *do* shut down everything (or when a junoir engineering rating
screws up and shguts off the fuel to the only *running* generator :-),
you can fire up a portable unit and use that to start one of the
smaller generators, use that to fire one of the biggies ("bootstrap").
Or you can use the power from dockside.

In Traveller terms, I suspect that a portable generator would put out
enough power to start an air-raft or simliar item, and that would put
out enough to start a ships boat or "small" auxilulary power plant. And
that would be enough to start the ship. It's just a royal pain. 

Just off the top of my head, I'd say a plant can start a plant that
has up to 10 times the output. Maybe 100. Adjust to whatever "seems
right". 

ps. Even a "small" Taveller ship will use as much power as a small
office building. And just *ask* a building engineer how much *that* is!
Lighting and HVAC use up *incredible* amounts of power. And you can't
exactly shut them down on a whim.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 04:34:15 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: spaceport authority customs

In mail you write:

> Anders Backman wrote:
>
>> >Then you must be nervous about the US and China. As well as all the
>> >other members of the "nuclear club". And the folks with nerve gas, and
>> >bio weapons.
>>
>> Private citizens of the Imperium was supposed to be able to buy missiles
>> for their ships in CT, MT and so on. When TNE came out some wize guy
>> decided that x-ray det laser nukes were cool so he decided that the
>> missiles were of this kind.
>>
>> So in TNE and T4(+) private citizens may own their own cozy x-ray det nukes
>> (how that meshes with the Imperial rules of war is a question for the
>> listoids that like the TNE/T4 explanation of missiles).

My take is this.

Given the things we *currently* know, making a nuke is *not* all that
hard. We keep coming up with new ways to seperate the isotopes, and
they keep getting cheaper.

So when you add a few tech levels I see *no* way to effectively prevent
any group of nuts with some time and cash from building a nuke. It'd be
about on a par with the difficulty of building the "fertilizer" bombs
used against the World Trade Center in NY, or in OK city. 

At the same time, just as "blasting oil" (the proper name for the mix
in the above bombs) is used in a lot of industries, and there are even
booklets from the goverment telling farmers how to make it and use it
to remove stumps, there are going to be *legit* civilian uses.

So, I suspect that the rules will be a bit different than what we've
assumed. *Using* a nuke "improperly" is worth a quick trip to the
executioner. But for "appropriate" uses such as some kinds of mining
and engineering, and det-nuke missiles for ships, they are quite legal,
but controlled. 

So, one thing that'll happen to a missile armed ship every time it
visits a port is that an inspector from Imperial Naval Ordnance will
drop by and check the serial numbers on the warheads as well as your
paperwork on them. (non-ship users are inspected by the Imperial Army,
or the local government).

If you can't account for what happened to a warhead, or you have one
that the paperwork doesn't check out on, then you may be in serious
trouble. 

Sure, it may take a while for the reports to get together that show you
had nine warheads when you visited port A, and only eight when you
visited port B. But once they do, the Navy is going to want to have a
*long* talk with you. Ditto if you wind up with an extra.

Think of a demolition company or contractor having to explainm a
discrepancy with his explosives).

It *is* possible to obtain illegal nukes. But doing so is a serious
crime. As is misusing legal ones. But since Piracy is *already* a
capital crime, well, they can only kill you once.


- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 10:13:33 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: spaceport authority customs

>So, one thing that'll happen to a missile armed ship every time it
>visits a port is that an inspector from Imperial Naval Ordnance will
>drop by and check the serial numbers on the warheads as well as your
>paperwork on them. (non-ship users are inspected by the Imperial Army,
>or the local government).

In the case of ships the communications lag would require the equivalent of
a ships transponder on the missles/missletubes.  Don't want the ships crew
forging the documents easily now do we?

Demo teams planet side or in system would be a lot easier to police,
interstellar vessels would be a _Real_ pain!

Personally I think that the problems with trying to police Nuclear weapons
would cause them to be classified as something that the average citizen
wouldn't be allowed to have.  Furthermore, the Imperium probably has some
_serious_ detectors for checking ships out to see if they are carrying
Nukes.  I'm sorry, the average citizen doesn't need Nukes, or X-Ray Lasers.
It would be a _very_ difficult and time consuming process to get a license
for a nuclear weapon, even if it's only being used in deep space demolition
work.

			Zane


| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/                       |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them.    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html            |

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 18:16:40 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: UK: Traveller products at low prices

 Best Books and Games in Liverpool (Slater Street) is clearing some excess
stock(*) at the moment, at a 50% reduction in price. They have First Survey
(4 copies), Milieu 0 (2 copies) and the T4 rules (1 copy) at a 50% discount
ie £7.50 for the supplements, and £8.50 for the main rules.

At this price even FS is tempting...

Dom

(*) They are still stocking Traveller 4, it's just they don't seem to like
having more than two copie of everything on the shelves at once.

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 20:28:44
From: Paolo Marino <marino@inrete.it>
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

Dragin Magazine issue #101 has an article by Tim Brown "The Stellar
Diocese" about the clergy career in CT format. 

If people is interested enough I'll try to adapt this for T4 at the end of
the current thread (which I'm archiving, sans the part about girl
roleplayers) using the aforementioned article and any ideas which surfaces
in the TML about this.



__  Paolo Marino  __          |Inrete Games Page: www.inrete.it/games/gms.html
 mc4799@mclink.it (Preferred) | marino@inrete.it (Best for MIME/BinHex)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 11:53:21 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Customs checks and fusion stuff

>At 12:25 AM 17/01/98 -0500, Ian wrote:
>>
>>ObTrav - this is how my Imperium runs.  They only pull away nukes because
>>of the very real chance that those could turn nobody political
>>organizations into somebody political organizations.  It is cheaper to
>>forbid and inspect than to give away nuke dampers.
>>
>>Scott
>
>Lazy customs officers streamline the inspection. Just ask "you got any
>fissionables on board ?", then spray the ship with a nuke damper. Works
>like a a dream.

Yep.  I have used this, and it pissed the players off tremedously, when
they had just gotten thier well shielded compartment filled with detlaser
heads full.

They spent MONTHS trying to get back enough warheads to matter.  Of course,
the peoeple were trying to appraoch Shudusham, which is not real tolerant
in my world.

They were even more annoyed when they realized that all they needed to do
was say "yes, three crates, numbers 114, 117, and 119.  The rest of the
ship would get cleared, and those boxes would get looked at.

Scott

- -------
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu.  http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz/
"You die, she dies, EVERYbody dies" - Heavy Metal
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment results" -
Calvin Coolidge, attrib. by Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:29:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: Tech notes

> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 98 16:48:55 -0600
> From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
> 
>  6.  Maybe your ship has several power plants and only 1 is needed to
>      provide "housekeeping" power, so you shut down the rest.  Ok, you
>      probably shouldn't do that, but see 6...

Ack!  Endless loop!  Gimme a terminating condition, *quick*!  I've been
reading paragraph 6 for three hours now... :)   [In the spirit of the
Prisoner conversation, perhaps you meant "see 1"?)

>  7.  Some duffus orders the Engineer to shut it down. ;->     

A duffus with pointy hair, no doubt.

> >Most of them are fueled for a full year, and that fuel is topped of when
> >you refuel.  Captains would probably turn the pant down to a minimal
> >"housekeeping" level when in port, but why stress the equipment having to
> >re-fire the chamber?
> 
> This I also agree with, but remember stuff happens.

I would suggest that the standard 1-week-in-port task be changed from
'cold start' to 'warm start'.  True cold starts should be relatively rare;
Eris's list gives a good set of scenarios where it could happen.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:41:55 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Gun Geeks

Bruce Johnson wrote:

>Of course, if there aren't any bleeding hearts back in Core, the Imperium
>gets to be a brutal nasty place to be, because it's clear from Milieu Zero
>that the Imperium was founded on the nastiest excesses of
>the-ends-justify-the-means Imperialism we've ever seen. (The Zhunastu
>rules of contact are pure Machiavelli) The rich get richer, the poor get
>poorer, and soon the Imperium settles into a rigid caste society like the
>Ziru Sirrka before it (any one who thinks Victorian England wasn't a rigid
>caste society had best go back and look at the history books!) ripe for
>plucking. Hmmm, then Dulinor decides to try plucking it...looks like the
>seeds of the Rebellion were planted very early indeed!

The Progressive Union of Sayat Spofulams will solve this problem, but not
until c. 1205 T.I.

In the meantime, where are the Wobblies?  No, seriously.

A round of nasal spews to the first TMLer who can rewrite "Joe Hill" as a
Traveller song!


Kenji Schwarz              kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:55:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: Missiles

> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 21:38:58 +0000
> From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com>
> Subject: Re: Missiles
> 
> (forgive me if my physics are way off but here goes)
> 
> Kinetic energy is a result of vector and mass.

No; KE is not a vector quantity.  It is defined as

  KE = 0.5 m v^2

where m is the mass and v is the speed, indpendent of direction, in the
observer's frame.  That last clause is the kicker -- the KE of an object
is observer-dependent; two observers moving relative to one another will
never agree on the KE of any object.

> Thruster plates change vector (even if simply used for skipping 
> around the system).

True.  Momentum *is* a vector quantity (P = mV).  Any change in velocity
vector requires force (F = dP/dt = mA [if m is constant]).  Thrusters
provide that force.

> How can a change in vector not change the KE potental of an object? 
> Unless 1) the mass goes down, 2) vector is not changed (al la jump).

By swinging the direction of the velocity vector around without changing
its magnitude.  A 1 kg object travelling south at 1 m/s and a 1 kg object
travelling north at 1 m/s (in my frame) have identical KE, and identical
magnitude of momentum, but opposite momentum vectors.  Causing the
southbound object to turn around and head north at 1 m/s will require
acceleration, and hence energy expenditure to provide the force, but in
the end, the KE is unchanged.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 18:00:23 -0600
From: "John D. Muncy" <jmuncy@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #3

> 
> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 18:05:49 -0700 (MST)
> From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
> Subject: Re: Gun Geeks

> I have guns, and I'm a geek, so I guess I *am* a gun geek. Geek
> isn't a nasty word, either :-P  Geeks rule the world one way or another.
> You have a computer, you play RPGs---hell, you're a geek, too!
> Everybody that reads this is a geek. Geeks of the world unite!
> 
Point well taken, Merrick! My sincerest of apologies to the list for my
over-zealousness and over-sensitivity. Please bear with me, as I am
the FNG on the block-It is harder to communicate w/people when
there are no facial expressions, voice inflections and body language.

BTW, Merrick, nice job of diffusion w/humor! The Russian judge gives
you a 9.5 (they never give anyone a ten!) Thanks.

Best Regards
John

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 18:00:23 -0600
From: "John D. Muncy" <jmuncy@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #3

> 
> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 18:05:49 -0700 (MST)
> From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
> Subject: Re: Gun Geeks

> I have guns, and I'm a geek, so I guess I *am* a gun geek. Geek
> isn't a nasty word, either :-P  Geeks rule the world one way or another.
> You have a computer, you play RPGs---hell, you're a geek, too!
> Everybody that reads this is a geek. Geeks of the world unite!
> 
Point well taken, Merrick! My sincerest of apologies to the list for my
over-zealousness and over-sensitivity. Please bear with me, as I am
the FNG on the block-It is harder to communicate w/people when
there are no facial expressions, voice inflections and body language.

BTW, Merrick, nice job of diffusion w/humor! The Russian judge gives
you a 9.5 (they never give anyone a ten!) Thanks.

Best Regards
John

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 19:30:35 EST
From: Ken Kinkor <KenKinkor@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Darrians

Rating your memory at an 8 or 9.  A nice touch was a significant Aslan
presence on planets in their section of space.  Their interaction with the
Sword Worlds was also interesting.  Made for some nice cloak-and-dagger
campaigns

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 19:11:18 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Customs checks and fusion stuff

Ian said,


>>From: Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com>
>>
>>At 9:57 PM -0500 1/16/98, Richard A. Flores wrote:
>>>Canonically speaking, "Fusion plants normally require a fractional second
>>>startup pulse from storage banks [batteries] equal to their output, and
such
>>>a storage bank is included in the mass of any fusion plant." (CSC p 61)
>>
>>The first thing I'd do on a fighter, then, is rip out the storage bank
>>and let the carrier fire them up.  This would save on mass, which is
>>critical in a fighter.  There are probably other kinds of ships which
>>would do this, too.
>>
>>Bolie IV
>
>True, but fighters will IMO usually be using either batteries or The
>Abomonation Known As Fusion Plus, as the minimum sizes for Fusion plants
>are now too big for cost-effective use in small craft.
>
>The other thing is that batteries are pretty efficient. I suspect that the
>battery to kick-start the fusion plant is only about a hundred ccs or so.

At TL 12 one could assume a savings of only 10% on volume and 2.5% on mass
on Fusion plants.  Fusion+ plants don't need the jump start.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 19:35:53 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Gun Aficianodos

A gee is someone who eats live creatures.  I can understand why someone
might be offended.

Let's change the thread reference, I did.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 19:58:19 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Microfoil - "New" Item for Traveller

Semo said:


>I have a few other nifty devices on the way, just have to write
>them up properly.

Excellent.  Keep them coming.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 21:18:22 -0500
From: "Scott Spieker" <scspieker@ncweb.com>
Subject: Re: Cool Minis

	For those of you who may be interested, I have a BUTT load of the original
15mm miniatures, and I am willing to sell them or exchange them.  When I
say BUTT load, I really mean several dozen, actually more close to 100+
miniatures.  These miniatures range from civilians, to armored, to
vac-suited figures.
	The set includes an open topped ATV as well as an open air-raft with seats
and crew.  Several other sci-fi sets have also been mixed in to increase
the number of figures to over 100.

	Items I am looking for and willing to exchange for are as follows:

	DGP traveller books:
		Grand Survey
		Grand Census
		101 Robots
	GDW Traveller Books:
		Zhodani Alien Module

	Adler 6mm sci-fi miniatures such as grav-tanks, infantry, etc. - sold by
stone mountain miniatures
	Dirtside range of sci-fi miniatures - still available through Geo Hex or
Ground Zero Games in the UK
	OGRE miniatures - mostly tanks or OGREs - Hard to Find
	Micro Armor - modern, WWII, buildings, terrain, etc.

	If you are interested in purchasing or an exchange, please contact me
through private e-mail:
	scspieker@ncweb.com

Thanks,
Scott Spieker



>Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 22:47:25 -0800
>From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <schoon@aimnet.com>
>Subject: Re: Cool Minis

>Michael D. Peters <Letterworks@Comten.com> wrote:

>>On the subject of minis. I just picked up a couple of packets of
Heavy-gear
>>15mm. They're military types but in uniforms that, with a little
>>modification and paint, can double as heavily armed civilians (typically
the
>>way my players see themselves any way, no matter what they are really
>>carrying!!!!).

>Just to be perfectly accurate; technically the Heavy Gear figs are 20mm

>>By the way how many on the list are still playing in 15mm scale? I know
that
>>there are more minis out there in 25mm but I like the larger "table" top
>>scale for 15mm. The half inch scale (from the old CT days) lets me print
out
>>scaled deck plans.

>I WISH they were still making decent 15mm minis, but I'm afraid that
>necessity has forced me into the world of 25mm.

>...and even more I wish I'd bought a load of the 15mm stuff when it was
>available. :-(


>Schoon

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 20:23:55 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Cool Minis

>Has anyone else looked at the 25mm figs for Stargrunt?  Several different
>armies, each with a variety of troops, including the New Anglican Marines
>in very Travelleresque Battle Dress.

  Good stuff, and (IIRC) all viewable at Geohex' web-site (along with
the associated resin vehicle line). A bit pricy, but not unreasonable
by current (highway brigandage) prices.

>example.), and are even posed in realistic positions.  The only drawbacks
>are extensive falsh and sprues, and a lack of detail around the face.

  Faces may be by type (most of mine have helmets or faceplates), but the
rest sounds like a production problem or an old mould - mine were OK.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #7
********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Sunday, January 18 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 008



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Gun Geeks
Mostly on nukes
Re: Religion Careers
Re: Lifeboats
Re: Religion Careers
Re: Guns of the Wild West
Re: Gun Geeks
Re: Militias, Missiles, Nukes and Interstellar Economics
Re: Mostly on nukes
No of female roleplayers in group (was Re: Religion Careers)
Alien's Archive
Re: Religion Careers
Re: Religion Careers
Re: Militias, Missiles, Nukes and Interstellar Economics
Re: Missiles
Re: Guns of the Wild West
Re: Guns of the Wild West

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 20:41:51 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Gun Geeks

At 12:41 PM 1/17/98 +0800, you wrote:

>A round of nasal spews to the first TMLer who can rewrite "Joe Hill" as a
>Traveller song!

I dreamed I saw Enir Hill last night
A pround Vilani
Said I, "but Enir, you're long since dead"
"I never died", said he
I never died, said he

"The megacorps, they killed you Enir
Left in space to die"
Said Enir, "that's true enough,
They left my husk
To fall into the sun and fry"
Fall in the sun and fry

"But my spirit lived, and still I roam
From Lishun to the Sphere
And where the spirit of Enir Hill roams
The Megacorps know fear"
The Megacorps know fear

I dreamed I saw Enir Hill last night
A pround Vilani
Said I, "but Enir, you're long since dead"
"I never died", said he
I never died, said he


Proud member of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, Local 665.
- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:20:11
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Mostly on nukes

At 11:23 PM 17/01/98 -0500, you wrote:
>

>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Subject: Re: spaceport authority customs
>
>Given the things we *currently* know, making a nuke is *not* all that
>hard. We keep coming up with new ways to seperate the isotopes, and
>they keep getting cheaper.
>
>So when you add a few tech levels I see *no* way to effectively prevent
>any group of nuts with some time and cash from building a nuke. It'd be
>about on a par with the difficulty of building the "fertilizer" bombs
>used against the World Trade Center in NY, or in OK city. 
>

My take is a little more complex. Fission is a basic technology for TL7-11,
but it becomes less neccessary when you have the smaller fusion power
plants at TL12. Add The Abomonation Known As Fusion Plus and you could
eventually decommission most of the fission power plants.

Now, the Third Imperium wants this, and tries to encourage it, but cannot
actually declare fission power plants illegal, as the Imperium's
constituent worlds rely on them too much.

If fission plants were rarer, then fissionables would be harder to get, the
number of fission techs would be smaller and the problem of civilian nukes
would be far more controllable.

I believe that it would be a subtle process, concentrating firstly on
fission plants that use Imperial starports - essentially you have tougher
safety inspections on them (maybe Hard vs average of Admin and Engineering)
than apply to fusion powerplants.

The Imperium may also apply special taxes and onerous paperwork on
fissionables - you would probably have to document where every gram of
production went, complete with end user certificates and so on.

>At the same time, just as "blasting oil" (the proper name for the mix
>in the above bombs) is used in a lot of industries, and there are even
>booklets from the goverment telling farmers how to make it and use it
>to remove stumps, there are going to be *legit* civilian uses.

Issued by that well known terrorist support orginisation, the US Forest
Service. Kenji, you listening ?

>
>So, I suspect that the rules will be a bit different than what we've
>assumed. *Using* a nuke "improperly" is worth a quick trip to the
>executioner. But for "appropriate" uses such as some kinds of mining
>and engineering, and det-nuke missiles for ships, they are quite legal,
>but controlled. 

The IN will also want to be the only user of nuke det laser weapons,
because a nuke det missile can do signifigant damage to a small warship.

Also, given that you need lots of missiles to guarantee a hit in the face
of laser counter-missile fire, my guess is that most civilians just wont
bother with missile racks. Sandcasters and lasers are the way to go for
civilian uses, with PAWs if you are loading for bear.

>
>So, one thing that'll happen to a missile armed ship every time it
>visits a port is that an inspector from Imperial Naval Ordnance will
>drop by and check the serial numbers on the warheads as well as your
>paperwork on them. (non-ship users are inspected by the Imperial Army,
>or the local government).
>
>If you can't account for what happened to a warhead, or you have one
>that the paperwork doesn't check out on, then you may be in serious
>trouble. 

You bet.

>
>Sure, it may take a while for the reports to get together that show you
>had nine warheads when you visited port A, and only eight when you
>visited port B. But once they do, the Navy is going to want to have a
>*long* talk with you. Ditto if you wind up with an extra.
>
>Think of a demolition company or contractor having to explainm a
>discrepancy with his explosives).
>
>It *is* possible to obtain illegal nukes. But doing so is a serious
>crime. As is misusing legal ones. But since Piracy is *already* a
>capital crime, well, they can only kill you once.
>

I think piracy with nukes would be a more urgent issue than piracy using
civilian weapons. Kinda like the difference between bank robbery with a
shotgun and bank robbery with a RPG-7.

>
>- -- 
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 10:13:33 -0800
>From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
>Subject: Re: spaceport authority customs
>
>>So, one thing that'll happen to a missile armed ship every time it
>>visits a port is that an inspector from Imperial Naval Ordnance will
>>drop by and check the serial numbers on the warheads as well as your
>>paperwork on them. (non-ship users are inspected by the Imperial Army,
>>or the local government).
>
>In the case of ships the communications lag would require the equivalent of
>a ships transponder on the missles/missletubes.  Don't want the ships crew
>forging the documents easily now do we?
>

Fair enough :) They would probably have a serial number carved on the
actual plutonium warhead as well.

>Demo teams planet side or in system would be a lot easier to police,
>interstellar vessels would be a _Real_ pain!
>
>Personally I think that the problems with trying to police Nuclear weapons
>would cause them to be classified as something that the average citizen
>wouldn't be allowed to have.  Furthermore, the Imperium probably has some
>_serious_ detectors for checking ships out to see if they are carrying
>Nukes.  I'm sorry, the average citizen doesn't need Nukes, or X-Ray Lasers.
>It would be a _very_ difficult and time consuming process to get a license
>for a nuclear weapon, even if it's only being used in deep space demolition
>work.
>

Agreed. I actually suspect that you would actually be required to
subcontract the job to the IN Corps of Engineers or equivalent. On full
cost recovery, of course. At minimum, you'd need to buy the nuke off the
Imperial government at your local class C or better starport, and it'd have
a tech babysitting it all the way until it went boom. Again, full cost
recovery applies.

>			Zane

>From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
>Subject: Re: Customs checks and fusion stuff
>
>Ian said,
>
>
>>>From: Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com>

>>The other thing is that batteries are pretty efficient. I suspect that the
>>battery to kick-start the fusion plant is only about a hundred ccs or so.
>
>At TL 12 one could assume a savings of only 10% on volume and 2.5% on mass
>on Fusion plants.  Fusion+ plants don't need the jump start.

Nahhh. Batteries are pretty massy - 2t per m3. I actually suspect it would
be as little as 2% on volume and mass. Not really worth it.

I also dont see a need to add the complexity for this little gain. YMMV.


Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 03:24:44 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

Richard A. Flores wrote:

> On 1/16, Bloo said:
>
> [snip]
> >I wouldn't accept such a [male dominated] religion in my campaign that
> >excluded women without a damn good reason.  Not being able to
> >coneceive of such a reason, you guessed it, equal opportunity.
>
> I can't believe that you would actually insist on reason in religion.  Many
> (perhaps most) religions are not the least bit reasonable or based in the
> slightest on reason.

Careful about those snips.  I didn't say that.  It was something I quoted.  The
author od those words got snipped.  No problem with it, just want to be clear.

> Further, it is a well known fact that only a priest may
> be elevated to the Bishopric, and only a Bishop may be elevated to the
> Cardinalcy, and only a Cardinal may be elected to fill the Papacy.
> Therefore, there will never be a woman Pope, Cardinal or Bishop.  Besides if
> a woman were allowed to be elected to the Papacy then it would have to be a
> Mamacy, and who wants that?

  So the standard hierarchy goes, if one were interested in ranks and such for a
hypothetical religious order/career, would be:

Acolyte/Alter-boy
Seminarian?
Deacon
Priest - minimum one per church.
Bishop - one per system
Archbishop - one per subsector
Cardinal - like Dukes - one per sector
Pope - Whole church

But where do Monsignors fit in.  And Monks and Abbots.  Would the latter be
similar to enlisted ranks?  Perhaps:
Novice
Initiate
Brother
Master
Abbot

Any comments on this potential table for a catholic-style of hierarchy?

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 03:26:14 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Lifeboats

>I seriously doubt it. What are they going to use for *air*? And,
>assuming enough air, you also have to deal with the rest of life
>support. In order of importance:
>
>1. heating/cooling (you can fry or freeze depending on conditions)
>2. removal of CO2
>3. toilet facilities
>4. water
>5. food

Isn't this what emergency low berths are for?

Aren't every single one of these points a problem on every single boat and
ship in space?

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 03:28:55 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

Paolo Marino wrote:

> Dragin Magazine issue #101 has an article by Tim Brown "The Stellar
> Diocese" about the clergy career in CT format.
>
> If people is interested enough I'll try to adapt this for T4 at the end of
> the current thread (which I'm archiving, sans the part about girl
> roleplayers) using the aforementioned article and any ideas which surfaces
> in the TML about this.
>

Wow!  That would be great.  I knew someone had dealt with this before.
I'll have to see if I can track down that issue.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 03:47:12 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Guns of the Wild West

>What kind of info do you need? There is a Wild West Shooters organization,
>sort of an 1800's SCA type organization. On good reference to black powder
>wepons (I assume this is what you mean) is the Black Powder Handbook,
>available in the library, or Dixie Gunworks catalog, which is a
>fascinating read.

Every time I research something, I am constantly amazed by the fringe groups
that  turn up when I poke around :)  I was trying to get info on wet-ships and
boats for Traveller, when I came across people who made model warships with
compressed-air bb-cannons that they'd fight with, dredge 'em back up, patch
them up, and fight with them some more...  I had come across the Old West
folks, and was duly impressed :)  Do you have any more info on the Black
Powder Handbook or the Dixie Gunworks catalog?

Thanks alot,
Semo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 00:42:58 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Gun Geeks

In mail you write:

> The Progressive Union of Sayat Spofulams will solve this problem, but not
> until c. 1205 T.I.
>
> In the meantime, where are the Wobblies?  No, seriously.
>
> A round of nasal spews to the first TMLer who can rewrite "Joe Hill" as a
> Traveller song!

I'm not a Wobbly. But I know folks who are. I do have a copy of the
songbook (34th edition). 

Some other songs seem to fit better. Such as "Christians at War". But
who knows, maybe I can come up with something...

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 01:00:33 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Militias, Missiles, Nukes and Interstellar Economics

In mail you write:

> Getting grav tanks and spaceships may also be difficult if the Imperium
> doesnt want you to have them (or lets people know that selling them to you
> on credit is a bad idea, becasue you are planning to go play with the IN).

Unless the guerilla made some "cozy" deals with a Megacorp. 

>>That was our awnser.. Civies do not _get_ nukes. (well, unless they 
>>talk to Guido over there.. but heck.. just try sneaking a nuke past 
>>Star Port Security
>>
>>"Uhh. .Son.. what is that thing on the trailer?"
>>
>>"It's un.. uh..  uh.. Probe.. Yeah..."
>>
>>"Why is my giger counter going crasy near it?
>>
>>"Uhh.. Uhh.. we used it on a fusion.. err.. fission powerplant?")
>
> *grin* Just nod, agree that there are no fissionables on the ship, get them
> to countersign the paperwork saying so, and then wave a nuke damper node
> over the ship.

What good does the nuke damper do? It only suppresses reactyions
*while* it is aimed at something. And if you had it set for enhance
mode, the resulting blast would get the inspector chewed out.

And what about my "Old Trader" that's got a fission powerplant and
NERVA type rocket propulsion? :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 01:06:07 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Mostly on nukes

In mail you write:

> At 11:23 PM 17/01/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>>Subject: Re: spaceport authority customs
>>
>>Given the things we *currently* know, making a nuke is *not* all that
>>hard. We keep coming up with new ways to seperate the isotopes, and
>>they keep getting cheaper.
>>
>>So when you add a few tech levels I see *no* way to effectively prevent
>>any group of nuts with some time and cash from building a nuke. It'd be
>>about on a par with the difficulty of building the "fertilizer" bombs
>>used against the World Trade Center in NY, or in OK city. 
>
> My take is a little more complex. Fission is a basic technology for TL7-11,
> but it becomes less neccessary when you have the smaller fusion power
> plants at TL12. Add The Abomonation Known As Fusion Plus and you could
> eventually decommission most of the fission power plants.
>
> Now, the Third Imperium wants this, and tries to encourage it, but cannot
> actually declare fission power plants illegal, as the Imperium's
> constituent worlds rely on them too much.
>
> If fission plants were rarer, then fissionables would be harder to get, the
> number of fission techs would be smaller and the problem of civilian nukes
> would be far more controllable.

Nope. Not at all. For one thing Uranium has uses other than using it in
reactors or bombs. For one, it's one of the few *decent* yellow glazes
for ceramics. It gives a good orange, too. 

Anybody building a bomb *wouldn't* be getting their fissionables from a
reactor. It's actually *easier* to refine fissionables from *ore* than
from used fuel elements. The ore isn't nearly as radioactive and
doesn't have all those *very* radioactive fission by-products in it. 

Given the tech likely to be available, refining the the metal from ore
(it doesn't take all *that* much) and then seperating out the
fissionable isotope is a doable "basement" project. 

> I believe that it would be a subtle process, concentrating firstly on
> fission plants that use Imperial starports - essentially you have tougher
> safety inspections on them (maybe Hard vs average of Admin and Engineering)
> than apply to fusion powerplants.
>
> The Imperium may also apply special taxes and onerous paperwork on
> fissionables - you would probably have to document where every gram of
> production went, complete with end user certificates and so on.

Why? No offense, but *ships* are more dangerous than nukes. And most of
the uses for uranium and thorium are such that the type of controls you
are talking about would be ludicrous.

Do you notice that sort of control on sales of fuel oil or fertilizer?
Then the Imperium won't have them on "ordinary" uranium and thorium. 

>>At the same time, just as "blasting oil" (the proper name for the mix
>>in the above bombs) is used in a lot of industries, and there are even
>>booklets from the goverment telling farmers how to make it and use it
>>to remove stumps, there are going to be *legit* civilian uses.
>
> Issued by that well known terrorist support orginisation, the US Forest
> Service. Kenji, you listening ?

Must be a different booklet. It was the USDA that issued the one I know
about. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 12:33:44 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: No of female roleplayers in group (was Re: Religion Careers)

Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com> wrote:

>I win! I have TWO women in my group. My wife plays an ex-Marine. The other
>woman
>plays TWO characters, an ex-merchant and an ex-Marine.

My current game group has two female players... in our 2300 style game
there are 4 PC's, three of which are female and my lone confused male (why
confused? He has a flaw 'thinks he has come to bed eyes').

Prior to that, our T4 M1100 game had one female player (briefly two) out of
five. However, there were 3 female PCs in play.


Vanya (keeper of the updated, non-official IG page! ;-) ) wrote:

>I find that quite a few women like Traveller, usually more so than a
>certain 'standard fantasy game.'  But, then again, I've never had a
>problem with my players using unnecessary violence (I ran a campaign for
>two years that had only *one* shot fired from a body pistol).
>*Necessary* violence, though, is another thing.

In a six month campaign we had one firefight (started by our 16 year old
testosterone loaded young lad!) - it beacame that the players were more
unconfortable going to restaurants than going out adventuring (I must
finish the write up).

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 13:00:14 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Alien's Archive

Just picked up the Aliens Archive. I must say that it is one of the best
books for T4 that I have seen. I like the Roleplaying opportunities...

 I'd rate it with M0, PE, EA and CSC. (My okay books are FFS2, NAM, and my
'disappointed' books are FS and Starships. No comment on IS yet, and the
Annililik Run should be burned on sight).

Shame they had to fill it out with a large font size..

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 22:54:08 +1200
From: frankie@mundens.gen.nz (Frank G. Pitt)
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

In article <199801170043.QAA28145@m9.sprynet.com>,
"Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com> wrote:
>My wife also plays, and I had a standard fantasy game (no dark and 
>weird here, mind you!!) :) was 3 girls and 1 male player.
>
>I thot that was normal ;>
>
>
>
>> 
>> I win! I have TWO women in my group. My wife plays an ex-Marine. The other woman
>> plays TWO characters, an ex-merchant and an ex-Marine.

And we have two regulars, and one not so regular.
One played a pilot and the other a female marine captain
noted for her morale-boosting hot-tub parties, and her psionic
chain-gun.....


Frankie

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 09:29:56 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

On 1/18 Bloo said,
>
>Richard A. Flores wrote:
>
>> On 1/16, Bloo said:
>>
>> [snip]
>> >I wouldn't accept such a [male dominated] religion in my campaign that
>> >excluded women without a damn good reason.  Not being able to
>> >coneceive of such a reason, you guessed it, equal opportunity.
>>
>> I can't believe that you would actually insist on reason in religion.
Many
>> (perhaps most) religions are not the least bit reasonable or based in the
>> slightest on reason.
>
>Careful about those snips.  I didn't say that.  It was something I quoted.
The
>author od those words got snipped.  No problem with it, just want to be
clear.


My apologies for misquoting you Bloo, I obviously misunderstood your
meaning.

[snip of stuff not related to my apology]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:41:27 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Militias, Missiles, Nukes and Interstellar Economics

This is a statment that I agree with. a TL-9 planent can still obtain 
tl-15 stuff, they just produce stuff that is not as TL-depenendant 
there (ie, ores, food, bullets for the universal 9mm Mag Revolver 
and SMG etc..) in the heyday of the third imperium.

Now, in hardtimes and M0, that is diffrent.. :)


[Much Snippage]

> The range of TLs can be explained by a world's TL being it's level of local
> manufacturing. They have lots of higher TL stuff, they just dont make it here.
> 
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com           http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

Thought for the day:
    Advertising (n): the science of arresting the human
    intelligence for long enough to get money from it.
           -- Stephen Leacock.

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:41:27 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Missiles

So, the ship Z is on a intercept corse with a moon.. They will 
arrive on the surface in 2 hours. Their PP is shot. Their TP's shut 
down. They _slow_ down?

My little mind is having a big problem with that.

My take on TP's.. they generate a small gravatitaional feild near the 
ship, and then use that to push off of. IMVHO they would not change 
the mass of somthing.. just push it..

Oh well :)

Cya


> 
> Simple. While the plate is on, inertial mass is greatly reduced. When
> you turn it off, you resume your original inertial mass, which means
> that your vector shortens *considerably*. 
> 
> The simplests case to calculate is where the inertial mass is reduced
> to zero. In that case, when you cut the drive, you resume your original
> vector (magnitude and direction). 
> 
> For partial neutralization it gets messier. But your final vector is
> still based on the original vector, just modified by the "new one. If
> forget how the percentages go. I worked it out once, but I don't have
> the formulas handy.
> 
> -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
> 
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com           http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

Thought for the day:
    Intuition (n): an uncanny sixth sense which tells people 
    that they are right, whether they are or not.

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 10:01:44 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Guns of the Wild West

Well The Black Powder Handbook is a Gun Digest publication. 
Dixie Gun Works is on line at http://www.dixiegun.com

I recommend that anyone who is interested in low TL firearms pick up the
catalog. If nothing else it is a fascinating reference to the art of TL-3
and 4 gunsmithing. About 50 or so pages in the back are devoted to
reference material only, including instructions on literally hand-loading
cartridges.

It's also got a huge list of refernce books for sale, which serve as a
great source to look for in the library, covering just about all aspects
of (roughly) 18th-19th century life, with an emphasis on material for
re-enactors, so it's lots of stuff about clothing, tools, weapons, etc. 

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


On Sun, 18 Jan 1998, SemoFetus wrote:

> >What kind of info do you need? There is a Wild West Shooters organization,
> >sort of an 1800's SCA type organization. On good reference to black powder
> >wepons (I assume this is what you mean) is the Black Powder Handbook,
> >available in the library, or Dixie Gunworks catalog, which is a
> >fascinating read.
> 
> Every time I research something, I am constantly amazed by the fringe groups
> that  turn up when I poke around :)  I was trying to get info on wet-ships and
> boats for Traveller, when I came across people who made model warships with
> compressed-air bb-cannons that they'd fight with, dredge 'em back up, patch
> them up, and fight with them some more...  I had come across the Old West
> folks, and was duly impressed :)  Do you have any more info on the Black
> Powder Handbook or the Dixie Gunworks catalog?
> 
> Thanks alot,
> Semo
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 09:11:49 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Guns of the Wild West

On that subject.. is T4.x  accually going to have rules for wet 
boats? IMVHO that has been a subject area sorely missed for quite 
some time..

Esprecially when my party shows up on a TL8 or 9 water world in 
hardtimes.. ;)

Cya


> Every time I research something, I am constantly amazed by the fringe groups
> that  turn up when I poke around :)  I was trying to get info on wet-ships and
> boats for Traveller, when I came across people who made model warships with
 
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com           http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

Thought for the day:
    Advertising (n): the science of arresting the human
    intelligence for long enough to get money from it.
           -- Stephen Leacock.

************************************************************************

------------------------------

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Traveller-digest      Monday, January 19 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 009



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #8
Re: Darrians
Re: Religion & Drugs
Gurps Traveller Web Page
Re: Calculating Stellar Mass
Re: Religion & Drugs
FF&S Question
Re: Religion & Drugs
TP ideas [Was Missiles]
Re: Gurps Traveller Web Page
Re: Militias, Missiles, Nukes and Interstellar Economics
Re: Mostly on nukes
More nukes
TL transfer, Brokers, Markets and Exchanges 
Re: More nukes
Re: Guns of the Wild West
re: Darrians SPOILER
Re: Religion careers
Re: spaceport authority customs

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 09:59:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #8

> Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 20:41:51 -0800
> From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
> Subject: Wobblies
> 
> At 12:41 PM 1/17/98 +0800, you wrote:
> 
> >A round of nasal spews to the first TMLer who can rewrite "Joe Hill" as a
> >Traveller song!
> 
> I dreamed I saw Enir Hill last night
> A pround Vilani
[snip]
[mop coffee off keyboard]

Bravo!  Almost as good as Lisa Simpson's Woodie Guthrie number ("So we'll
march day and night, by the big cooling tower/They have the plant, but we
have the power").

> Proud member of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, Local 665.

Ummmmm...I hesitate to ask, but...where's Local 666?

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 09:03:26 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Darrians

Ian or Katts wrote:
> 
> Jim asked about Darrians.
> 
Thanks Ian. Even if its not in line with *the book*, its a start.

Jim Cooper

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 09:47:11 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Religion & Drugs

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> > <twine tentacles in deep gratification>
> >
> > Soon, soon, we'll have you all smoking drug drug through rolled-up copies
> > of _Starships_ and _First Survey_ while sacrificing kidnapped homosexual
> > babies at Lenin's mausoleum.  Yes!  And your little dogs too!
> >
> > <caper in silent glee>
> >
> > M. Kenji
> 
> Kenji, Just what *is* it with you and this "capering ... glee" thing?
> Are you related to Fnordykins over on soc.subculture.bondage or
> something?
> 
Hey! Leave the man alone. He has lowered my stress level several notches
on several occasions.

Jim Cooper

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 14:32:15 -0500
From: "Eric Freitas" <edf@atlantic.net>
Subject: Gurps Traveller Web Page

I was just looking at the Gurps Traveller web page and ran across a name I'm not
familiar with "Emperor Strepho".  Who is he, and is he in any way related to the
late and (possibly not) lamented soul who was called "Emperor Strephon".  Is it
possible that this is one and the same man, or just a cheap imposter with
delusions of grandeur?

Eric

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 14:48:08 -0500
From: "Eric Freitas" <edf@atlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Calculating Stellar Mass

Thanks to everyone who answered my question.

Eric

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:58:59 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Religion & Drugs

Leonard Erickson wrote:

>Kenji, Just what *is* it with you and this "capering ... glee" thing?
>Are you related to Fnordykins over on soc.subculture.bondage or
>something?

I could tell you -- but then I'd have to turn you into a hamster.


Kenji Schwarz              kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 98 12:36:46 PST
From: "Marcus & Lurann Teter" <galileo@montana.campus.mci.net>
Subject: FF&S Question

Hello everyone.
I've been messing around with FF&S from TNE, mainly to lookover some of the
alternate technologies.  I was wondering if anyone had designed a strickly
sublight starship using the Bussard Ram or the Daedelus Drives.  I'm trying
to construct a colonizer and have been overwealmed by the process.  Any
help or recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Marcus A. Teter

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 15:25:09 -0500
From: "Eric Freitas" <edf@atlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Religion & Drugs

Kenji spewed forth from from his nostrils:

><twine tentacles in deep gratification>
>
>Soon, soon, we'll have you all smoking drug drug through rolled-up copies
>of _Starships_ and _First Survey_ while sacrificing kidnapped homosexual
>babies at Lenin's mausoleum.  Yes!  And your little dogs too!
>
><caper in silent glee>


Good Lord man, you never mix canines and humans at a sacrifice!  March
yourself right off to the Thought Correction Ministry!

{man, what are they teaching these kids these days?....}

Eric

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 98 14:20:25 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: TP ideas [Was Missiles]

On 01/17/98 at 12:41 PM,  "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com> said:

[Inserting a portion of Shadow's post...]

>> Simple. While the plate is on, inertial mass is greatly reduced. When
>> you turn it off, you resume your original inertial mass, which means
>> that your vector shortens *considerably*. 

>So, the ship Z is on a intercept corse with a moon.. They will  arrive on
>the surface in 2 hours. Their PP is shot. Their TP's shut  down. They
>_slow_ down?

Not exactly.  If I understand what they are proposing, then ship Z would
resume (in whole, or in part) the vector it had before turning the TP's on.
Here's what I think they say is going on.

   (TP's off)        |(TP's on )    |  (TP's back off)
 /~~~\               |   /~~~\      |   /~~~\
 | M | --(6)-->      |   | M |      |   | M |
 \___/               |   \___/      |   \___/
   Z                 |     Z        |        With TP's off ship   
 Moon is moving 6    |    / Ship    |        loses TP induced vector
 and Z is on surface |   /  lifts   |        & resumes previous one 
                     | (8)  & moves |     
                     | /    out     |  --(6)-->
  
It's probably a little more compliated than that because the old vectors
would still be in effect so in the middle diagram Z is moving 6 to the east
*and* 8 to the soutwest.  And if the TP induced vector isn't wholely
psuedo, then it might end up with 6 east and 2 southwest when you finish. 
This could give the impression that a ship slows down when the TP's go
off..or that it speeds up, depending on the observer's frame of reference.

>My take on TP's.. they generate a small gravatitaional feild near the 
>ship, and then use that to push off of. IMVHO they would not change  the
>mass of somthing.. just push it..

Personally, I prefer to use stutterwarp (restricted to STL), or
Ether-propellers.  


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 98 14:54:13 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller Web Page

On 01/18/98 at 02:32 PM,  "Eric Freitas" <edf@atlantic.net> said:

>I was just looking at the Gurps Traveller web page and ran across a name
>I'm not familiar with "Emperor Strepho".  Who is he, and is he in any way >related to the late and (possibly not) lamented soul who was called "Emperor >Strephon". Is it possible that this is one and the same man, or just a cheap >imposter with delusions of grandeur?

I'd guess you are right.  ;->

Now, would you mind posting the url of the GURPS Traveller web page were
you looking at?  I'd like to go take a look for myself.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 98 20:17 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Militias, Missiles, Nukes and Interstellar Economics

Moin Leonard Erickson,

> And what about my "Old Trader" that's got a fission powerplant and
> NERVA type rocket propulsion? :-)

	this ship is is not allowed inside of the Sylean subsector because
	of ecologicial law enforcements. It will be moved to the junkyard,
	where it's belongs.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 98 20:47 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Mostly on nukes

Moin Leonard Erickson,

> Nope. Not at all. For one thing Uranium has uses other than using it in
> reactors or bombs. For one, it's one of the few *decent* yellow glazes
> for ceramics. It gives a good orange, too. 

	Well I dont know about US, but those glazes are forbidden in gemany.

> Anybody building a bomb *wouldn't* be getting their fissionables from a
> reactor. It's actually *easier* to refine fissionables from *ore* than
> from used fuel elements. The ore isn't nearly as radioactive and
> doesn't have all those *very* radioactive fission by-products in it. 

	Anybody who currently wants to buy a bomb can do so. German BND has
	proved it, and got one of the sovjet bombs. Was a big scandal 3 years
	ago, as there was no official claiming to give the order to do so.
	IMHO the bomb was given to Gladius.

> Why? No offense, but *ships* are more dangerous than nukes. And most of
> the uses for uranium and thorium are such that the type of controls you
> are talking about would be ludicrous.

	Imho fusion give the posibility to taboo dirty nuclear power, and
	a lot of governments will do so, restricting them to military use.
	So a government may decide that only the highport is extrality
	zone, and I would not even be allowed for a TL:9 fission/heplar
	ship to land at downport. Other government will bann nuclear
	missiles in their system, allowing them only for own SDB's and
	perhaps for imperial Navy. Any merchant or mercenary ship who has
	them will be confiscated. Others like mining colonies on asteroid
	belts will use fission frequently, not only for power, but as 
	demolition for mining.

> Do you notice that sort of control on sales of fuel oil or fertilizer?
> Then the Imperium won't have them on "ordinary" uranium and thorium. 

	So I think that nuclears will be restricted in some system, but
	not by imperial law. While nuclear weapons will be restricted
	to system defense and navy. The wast MT canon had several places
	making it likely that nuclear missiles are not accessable for
	jo average free trader. T4 has two types of missiles KKMs making
	1 point damage and xray/nukes making 2 points.

> > Issued by that well known terrorist support orginisation, the US Forest
> > Service. Kenji, you listening ?

	Is there a relation between weatherpower, the green party, the irish
	movement and the forest service ?

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:44:31
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: More nukes

At 12:16 PM 18/01/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 01:00:33 PST
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Subject: Re: Militias, Missiles, Nukes and Interstellar Economics
>
>In mail you write:
>
>> Getting grav tanks and spaceships may also be difficult if the Imperium
>> doesnt want you to have them (or lets people know that selling them to you
>> on credit is a bad idea, becasue you are planning to go play with the IN).
>
>Unless the guerilla made some "cozy" deals with a Megacorp. 

Better be a damn good deal, and have lots of plausable deniability. Getting
caught and getting the Imperium offside can do a lot of long-term damage to
an Imperium-wide  corporation.

>
>
>What good does the nuke damper do? It only suppresses reactyions
>*while* it is aimed at something. And if you had it set for enhance
>mode, the resulting blast would get the inspector chewed out.

I think we have different interpreations on how nuke dampers work.

I am working out of Stiker mod 1 book 2, particularily rule 40E "Radiation
suppression : Another use of nuclear dampers is to eliminate the
contamination created by a nuclear weapon detonation. Instead of performing
it's usual missions, a damper may be assigned to eliminate the radiation
from one nuclear strike per fire phase. Both the crater and the area of
induced radiation are rendered permanently harmless."

My read on this is that Nuke Dampers can, as well as temporarily
suppressing nuclear ractions, make radiactive material permanently inert.

This is one of the things that makes fighting a TL12 navy with more
primitive technology A Real Bitch.

>
>And what about my "Old Trader" that's got a fission powerplant and
>NERVA type rocket propulsion? :-)

Thats why they ask you "anything to declare ?" and give you a foot-thick
stack of paperwork when you say "Yeah, a 50 MW fission plant and a 200 kN
NERVA drive".

Also, could you post the design for the Old Trader. I want to build one
with FFS2, but if you've already don the work, great :)

>
>- -- 
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
>

<more Shadow, and my stuff deleted>

>> Now, the Third Imperium wants this, and tries to encourage it, but cannot
>> actually declare fission power plants illegal, as the Imperium's
>> constituent worlds rely on them too much.
>>
>> If fission plants were rarer, then fissionables would be harder to get, the
>> number of fission techs would be smaller and the problem of civilian nukes
>> would be far more controllable.
>
>Nope. Not at all. For one thing Uranium has uses other than using it in
>reactors or bombs. For one, it's one of the few *decent* yellow glazes
>for ceramics. It gives a good orange, too. 

*shrug* so they find a different yellow. Not something I'd weight that
heavily against security issues.

>
>Anybody building a bomb *wouldn't* be getting their fissionables from a
>reactor. It's actually *easier* to refine fissionables from *ore* than
>from used fuel elements. The ore isn't nearly as radioactive and
>doesn't have all those *very* radioactive fission by-products in it. 

What about plutonium breeder reactors ? My take is a PBR is a TL8+ fission
plant. But I'm not a nuke expert, so I'm probably wrong.

I also noted that the Imperium would want to heavily regulate the nuclear
mining business.

>
>Given the tech likely to be available, refining the the metal from ore
>(it doesn't take all *that* much) and then seperating out the
>fissionable isotope is a doable "basement" project. 
>
>> I believe that it would be a subtle process, concentrating firstly on
>> fission plants that use Imperial starports - essentially you have tougher
>> safety inspections on them (maybe Hard vs average of Admin and Engineering)
>> than apply to fusion powerplants.
>>
>> The Imperium may also apply special taxes and onerous paperwork on
>> fissionables - you would probably have to document where every gram of
>> production went, complete with end user certificates and so on.
>
>Why? No offense, but *ships* are more dangerous than nukes. And most of
>the uses for uranium and thorium are such that the type of controls you
>are talking about would be ludicrous.
>
>Do you notice that sort of control on sales of fuel oil or fertilizer?
>Then the Imperium won't have them on "ordinary" uranium and thorium. 

Can you turn a TL9+ fusion poweplant into a bomb ? I know you cant with a
modern fission plant. A ship trying to do the Frac C rock thing would (IMO)
get blown up by planetary defense forces sent on an intercept course.

While ANFO doesnt have these controls, other explosives do ... at least
around here, you need a licence to buy gelignite. In the mining town of
Coober Pedy, they stored it in the supermarket fridge, in between the
butter, eggs and milk.

>
>> Issued by that well known terrorist support orginisation, the US Forest
>> Service. Kenji, you listening ?
>
>Must be a different booklet. It was the USDA that issued the one I know
>about. :-)

*grin* remember, Charles Darrow held a IWW ticket as a kid working in
lumber mills (and went toe to toe with Joe McCarthy over HUAC ... he was
one gutsy guy). Oh yeah, and Kenji, the book to look for is the US Forest
Service's "Blasters Handbook".

>
>- -- 
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
>
>------------------------------
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 14:51:10 -0800
From: crystal <crystal@postme.net>
Subject: TL transfer, Brokers, Markets and Exchanges 

Given that the local demand causes higher prices at Exchanges located on
the main world of a star system determines availability of supply and
starship patterns. Also, not excluding other secondary exchanges
distributed throughout in-system, eg: on substantial colonies on other
planets & moons within the star system.

It is thus interesting to see the effects of speculative cargo on
Imperium trade routes. 

< TL Transfer >

One must also not rule out a higher TL world locating its industries on
a lower TL world -effectively raising the lower TL to the same level as
the host planet. Megacorporations can do this quite easily. If the
technology is proprietary, TL level would remain unchanged. Given the
wider range of TL difference, local employment (training), race
differences (culture): roll a dice and +DM to see how effective TL
transfer can be. Someone do a table here...

< Brokers >

Basically , I have a request for a good, say AI robots at a high enough
price for suppliers to ship, would I not sell it for profit
in/out-system at a higher unit/wholesale price?

What is to stop my customer from buying it? Therein, the theory that
Exchange refered to in past TML posts are WHOLESALE MARKETS. This ties
in
closely with Terra history, where actual agricultural and commodity
products take place among brokers only. It isn't necessary to have an
Exchange to ensure a demand for a good at a star system. There could be
outside trade in/out system in other products to pay for them. 

But Caveat...

Once a certain population has been saturated with a certain good, it is
unlikely that demand for that good, in that region, will continue at
that level. Interstellar merchantile trade for that good would come to
an end, occasionally spiked by demand for replacements / upgrades. 

< Speculative Cargo : Market >

An EXCHANGE defers from a MARKET; where in the former products can be
sold & re-sold *more than once*, in the latter goods are meant for sale
only *once*. Therein, the theory that individual brokers buy at
_wholesale prices_ + large quantities from in/out-system on a one-to-one
basis and then trades them in smaller quantities at _unit retail prices_
where the prices are more affordable. This would be a PUBLIC MARKET. 

Thus, we see the BROKERS MARKET, is a wholesale one-on-one basis.
Decentralized in nature. Perhaps linked by data terminals throughout the
Imperium. (Like a classifieds ad.) Being lesser in absolute traders,
would have high prices - perhaps MCr range. It could span more than 1
city on a planet/in-system. 

The PUBLIC MARKET is where smaller brokers buy & sell smaller quantites,
perhaps refurbishing / upgrading some components in a good.

< EXCHANGES >

In such a system, where shipments are slow. We see the volume of
transactions in the PUBLIC MARKET to be greater than the BROKERS MARKET. 

But see, what happens if we separate the physical goods and the prices
(represented on pieces of paper)...under such a system, transactions
speed up. With shipments at max Jump-6, we can envision greater price
volume on EXCHANGES than MARKETS. Whereas, a price adjustment by other
suppliers or brokers take days/weeks to change, a price adjustment by
traders in prices takes secs/minutes.

Let's say, a city/cities in-system needs at least an aggregate base
population level for demand (out-system: the other cities pop level is
added.) & appropriate tech level (for comms) to establish an Exchange. 

Here, it is more than a MARKET for goods. Scripts / contracts
representing fixed amount of a good at a certain quality and grade are
bought or sold while the actual good stays with established
depositories, suppliers, clients and dedicated warehouses. 

< Brokers Markets -> Public Market -> Centralized Exchange -> Brokers
Exchange -> OTC Exchange >

Here we see the progression: From merchantile trade (economics) to
institutional speculation (eg: mutual fund). We can lump them as an
'Exchange' and give a clssification code. Much like slave (foreign
labour) traders do not have to bring the goods to an EXCHANGE, only the
MARKET, shipment patterns would be considerably less. 

Starships only need concern with transporting goods to warehouse
operators, who deal with wholesale brokers. Warehouses would have a
constant supply of these goods. It is also possible for starships to
deal with end-client trading firms, who may/may not deal with these
brokers, if the price is right.

In such a scenario, it is highly possible for a star system to engage in
speculation, but not actual shipment/delivery. Thus, only money is
moving, not cargo.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 23:43:58 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: More nukes

Ian wrote:

>>> Issued by that well known terrorist support orginisation, the US Forest
>>> Service. Kenji, you listening ?
>>
>>Must be a different booklet. It was the USDA that issued the one I know
>>about. :-)
>
>*grin* remember, Charles Darrow held a IWW ticket as a kid working in
>lumber mills (and went toe to toe with Joe McCarthy over HUAC ... he was
>one gutsy guy). Oh yeah, and Kenji, the book to look for is the US Forest
>Service's "Blasters Handbook".

Will you guys KNOCK IT OFF???  I'm really rather hurt by the insinuation
that I have any desire whatsoever to do anything violent or explosive or...
bangy.  If I want to play with radioactives, I'll just rummage through the
trash bins at work for glowing rats and rabbits and monkeys and puppydogs.
I like my isotopes furry and cuddly, thank you very much.

I haven't blown anything up since I was a teenager.  And it was asking for it.

<mode="sulk">

Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 03:07:39 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Guns of the Wild West

>Well The Black Powder Handbook is a Gun Digest publication. 
>Dixie Gun Works is on line at http://www.dixiegun.com
>

<information concerning the usefullness of the Dixie Gun Works catalog
snipped>

Thank you muchly for the information.  It is really very much appreciated.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:24:02 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Darrians SPOILER

Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>  Ian Whitchurch wrote:

SPOILER WARNING




SPOILER








>Jim asked about Darrians.
>The Darrians claimed they had the Ultimate Weapon, the Star
>Trigger, and no-one argued. It actually took about 600 years before they
>figured out how to turn what they had into a viable weapon.
>
>They pulled a bluff on their neighbours - they developed damn good
>techniques to detect oncoming novas

Ian,

Can you *not* post background stuff that is from "referee's only" bits
without at least trailing a spoiler warning in the header? This example
(the Star Trigger's viability) could quite easily blow a hole in someones
M1100 campaign.

Ta. Not a bad summary though ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:27:40 +0000
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Religion careers

Subject: Re: Religion Careers
On 01/16/98 at 09:33 AM,  Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com> said:
>When creating religions for your game, why use your personal tastes to
>determine their doctrine?  Does every organization you create fit your
>personal standards?  I would think that religions would run the whole
>spectrum from strict fringe cults to new age to very conservative to
>completely wacky.  I'd bet that there'd be churches that onl allowed men,
>only allowed women, only allowed spacers, etc...

On Fri, 16 Jan 98 17:00:44 eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch) responded:
>Just like there are all kinds of religious/political/cultural beliefs on
>Earth today there should be all kinds of beliefs scattered across Known
>Space.  A lot of the fun of Traveller is putting the PC's in *different*
>environments and having them react. These different environments don't
>always have to be physical environments, either. Plop your Politically
>Correct PC's in a Gorish Tech 0 world (personally yuck, but that would
>*certainly* be different), in a world where atheism is the rigoriously
>enforced belief system, in a world where males are the subserviant gender,
>in a world that requires that all citizens to be *truely* gender neutral,
>in a world where cannibalism is part of the religion, in a world where
>euthenasia...you get the idea.


Sure you guys wouldn't like to be helping write entries for 101 Religions?!
Some good thoughts there.

On the subject of religious careers, if there are folk who've been playing
around with them - is there anyone who's tried using the Universal Religion
Profile (as described in Grand Census and World Builder's Handbook) to
describe a *characters* religious outlook (or NPC)?

tc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:34:34 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: spaceport authority customs

>My gearhead cohort and I have been looking at the damage of
>conventional warheads, and the size/weight. It should be fairly easly
>to cram 12 guided HEAP warheads into a missle, and assuming a 50 to
>91% miss rate, generate a d6 hits with respecitable damage. (using
>FFS v1.0... our local game store is slow slow they just realised that
>MT was no longer shipping).. :)

Missiles in space combat will either be nuclear or KE. There will ALWAYS be
more kinetic energy in a missile per kilogram than conventional explosives
can deliver unless space combat ranges are MUCH shorter than the 30 000 km
per hex or so.

Fellow gearhead.
(Oh, maybe I'm hurting someones fragile ego by calling him gearhead. It
amused me to no end that the mere mention of gun geeks (I never said that
anybody was one - just that there probably are some gun geeks out there
that think the US constitution gives them the right to own nukes.)


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #9
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Monday, January 19 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 010



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Foundation
Re: missiles in space
Re: Darrians
Re: Religion Careers
Re: Cool Minis
Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy 
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #7

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:05:57 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: Foundation

On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, Andrew Boulton wrote:

> In-Reply-To: <v02140b06b0e4de6bdfd2@[192.121.125.205]>
> 
> Anders,
> 
> > >I tried reading it years ago, but never got more than half way through the
> > >first book. Very disappointed. I may give it another go one day, but I've
> > >already got a stack of unread books 2' high...
> >  
> > In Traveller we use metrics! How high was that stack again?
> >  
> > :-)
> 
> 0.6096m.
> 
> Approximately.
> 
> Certainly enough to hurt when I drop them on your head...

Hmhmh... I've got a ten bord regal of two meters width with mostly unread
pocket books. ok, it is not completely full and some are read, so say it's
only a fifteen meter stack ... anyone's more?

L.A.

Don't ask me what else I'm collecting ...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:17:10 +0100
From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?M=E5ns_Gotare?=" <mans@gordion.se>
Subject: Re: missiles in space

To the defense of x-ray pumped lasers.....

As of today all naval ships has some kind of defense-system against
missiles. eg the US Navy has it's PHALANX which is capable of destroying
virtually ALL incoming missiles that is visible on the radar. These systems
usually has a range of 3-4 km and consists of several autocannons (vulcan).
If all Naval ships in traveller carried the TL10+ versions of those,
wouldn't the KE missiles be virtually obsolete? A standard KE autocannon
sure is quite usless in space combat but i suppose that if it starts to fire
at incoming KE missiles at some 30000m it would probably score some hits
because missiles usually fly in a VERY predictable path. If these systems
exists, it would make the x-ray missiles much more useful, esp the ones
(TL15) that detonates a hex away. Why not design a "vulcan laser" ?
Specifically designed to shoot "down" missiles....


my two cents :)

- --
Måns Gotare
havoc@gordion.se

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:26:18 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: Darrians

Aside from the spoilers, the Darrian history about the 'Maghiz' was quite
correct. Now for some visual appearances of Darrians.

The most remarkable are their hair, which is white to bright blonde, and
their pointed ears, which make them an elfin apperance. Their skin is
colored tan, which may or may not be a follow-up of the Nova ...
(One of the pictures in the Darrian Module shows a girl walking through a
forset with a longbow, I wonder if this was used in a fantasy RPG, too)

They are tall and thin, showing a genetic alteration which makes them burn
their meals rather than store it as fat. So Darrians never heard of the
concept of a diet, which makes some women of other people a little
jealous. They also have a good adaptation to temperature because of this -
if they get cold, they eat more.

The Darrian Language is te-zlodh, for which an example is given in the
module (Darrian spell their homeworld Daryen, as mentioned in TNE
material). I have got this module, but this was written from memory
either. 

The Darrians are a race which sometimes was seen by my characters,
but not contacted yet. How many SF stories also use aliens with pointed
ears? 

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:54:10 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Erwin Fritz wrote:

> I win! I have TWO women in my group. My wife plays an ex-Marine. The other woman
> plays TWO characters, an ex-merchant and an ex-Marine.
> 
Sure? I've got three - my sister playing a noble, a friend of her
playing a doctor and a girlfriend of one of the male players who took over
a NPC and still likes her very much.

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:18:35 +0100
From: "V.A.G" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Cool Minis

Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> 
> Has anyone else looked at the 25mm figs for Stargrunt?  Several different
> armies, each with a variety of troops, including the New Anglican Marines
> in very Travelleresque Battle Dress.
Some of the Full  Thrust Starship Mini´ s are also excellent for use
with Traveller!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 03:44:02 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy 

> From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz) wrote

We have considered your comments for four days and found them worthy. 
We have considered our reply for four more days and we now respond.
This is the natural order of things for an initial message.
So shall it be.

May the sun illuminate your thoughts.
May the moons illuminate your soul.
May the land [preserve/sustain/strengthen/uphold](1)  your body.
May the water (2) transport your body. 

Some of your terms, while superficially correct, do not display a true
understanding of the Fourfold Way.

> TO:  Faculty of Numerology

It is not strictly true to say that we have any seperate "Faculty of
Numerology" at the Institute.  Rather it would be correct to say that
all the scholars study the Fourfold Way since the way of the universe is
that (for humans) everything that happens in fours is significant.  When
you can see this you will see all.

>      Teloran Theological Institute, Ishag

Again the word Theology is too narrow and inorganic a translation.

> FR:  Redeye
>      Scientific Exchange Group
>      Number 15 Xenopolitical Investigative Task Force (Sylea)

Note that 	Number		6 letters
		15		2 letters
		Xenopolitical 	13 (1+3=4) letters
		Investigative 	13 (1+3=4) letters
		Task 		4 letters
		Force 		5 letters	
		(Sylea)		8 letters (with parenthisis)

		This is a total of 51 letters.  51 reversed is 15.  This indicates
that your Number 15 Task Force is significant in reverse.

	5 - 1 = 4	Your Task Force clearly has a destiny.

	Note that Redeye has 6 (1 + 5) letters.
				
Thus you can see mathematically that your mission is significant. 

> DT:  011-0002

Note that 011 + 002 = 4.  This is, of course, a significant message.

> RE:  Astropolitical Influences of the Number 4
 
> I am delighted to learn that you, too, have noted the interesting situation
> that every integer is the sum of no more than four squares.  So far as we
> have been able to determine, this was first conclusively proven by the
> Solomani comrade Lagrange.

This truth was in fact first proven by the Darmine mathematician/wise
woman Kanla dehah Hirala, prior to the unjust occupation and conquering
of Ishag by the [old fashioned/rigid/boring/sexually repressed] Vilani
circa -4100. 

> Interesting, yes?  The very same person who
> discovered the stable orbital points so useful in building large space
> habitats and other facilities.  Clearly this is not a coincidence.

There are _no_ coincidences.  We do not use this word, save as a loan
word to describe others(3) beliefs.

>  You
> will note that she made the former proof in the Solomani year 1770,

	1 + 7 + 7 + 0 = 15.  This ties back again with your # 15 Task Force.

> and
> that the standard Imperial astrography is constructed so as to contain a
> coordinate marked 1770 in each sector.  We suggest an immediate armed
> reconnaissance of all such locations.

Are you proposing a joint venture or seperate explorations of each point
?

> 
> (I'm sure you will agree that Solomani-derived cartography exhibits many
> interesting encodings of 4 -- the subsector grid within a sector (4x4 or
> 4^2 ?), for example -- all of which demand serious analysis.)
> 
> The signficance of only one in six of all numbers actually _requiring_ four
> squares is unclear to us.  Clearly, 4^n(8m+7) is worthy of further study
> and interpretation vis-a-vis the secret patterning of space settlement.
> 
> Furthermore, you will note that the probable solution to the "map coloring
> problem" (as described by Solomani mathematicians) is four.  To us this
> suggests (if proven) that the secular profusion of geopolitical units on
> the interstellar map are reducible to four unique and perfectly
> noncontiguous power blocs.  Our colleagues [CLASSIFIED], as you might well
> imagine.
> 
> I must note that your faith (as I am able to understand it at this time)

It is possible that you will, regrettably, not ever be able to
understand the Fourfold Way.  Four implies a duality of dualities.

The sun and the moons are in the sky.
The land and the water are on the planet.

The sun and the land are (relatively) unchanging.
The moons and the water are constantly changing.

The sun and the water bring life.
The moons (4) and the land bring death.

We have serious questions as to whether or not you Sayat, being
fundamentally the same and not posessing the male/female dichotemy can
ever understand duality.  We will be happy to try and enlighten you,
naturally standard instructional fees will apply.

> may neglect to fully account for the ontonumeric properties of _one_.

Of course we understand the importance of one.  One is, after all 4^0.

> Consider, for example, the children's game (among us in the Concourse --
> your people, too?) of taking any number, forming a new number from the sum
> of the squares of its digits, and iterating.

This is not a childs game among us.  Seeing fours in iteration is an
adult concept.  To allow children to try it may encourage pedantry in
the young.  In addition it is not really required as most patterns of
four can be seen by simple addition.
 
> As you know, the sequence
> always either lands at 1, or settles into the loop based on 4 (4, 16, 37,
> 89, 145, 42, 20, 4...).  That is why we in the Concouse [CLASSIFIED] or
> until such a time.
> 
> Furthermore, as Brocard, another late Solomani comrade, pointed out, n!+1
> is a square when n=4 -- that is, 4!+1=5.  Five, yes?  [CLASSIFIED] Guaran
> [CLASSIFIED].  Think about it!

Your comments on Guaran suggest that you may have forgotten that the
Fourfold Way of the universe is not for nonhuman.  They have different
numbers that are of significance to them, this is what alien means after
all - one whose [fundamental reality/weltanshung] is not fourfold.

> 
> Your gift of sulfuric acid bath salts were most appreciated by myself and
> other Slimy members of the embassy (though our Sayat comrades did rather
> object to its unusually pungent bouquet!), and I hope you will all enjoy
> the copper oxide breakfast-cereal flakes which I have taken the liberty of
> enclosing.

Tastes great, less filling.

> 
> Enclosure: (1)
> tr: Tunngardaya

Translators notes

(1)	[preserve/sustain/strengthen/uphold] 	This is all one word in Kadli.

(2)	The word water in this context also means any medium in which
journeys are made, air, outerspace, jump space, etc.

(3)	The usage of others in this context implicitly implies
_unenlightened_ others.

(4) 	In this context moons means night.  Do to its current very low
atmosperic density, due to the devestation caused by the perfidious
Vilani, [Is it our fault their much vaunted Shugili did not understand
the concept of cumulative heavy metal poisoning and we did not
understand their lack of tolerance for properly spiced food ?  The
Vilani then developed the (false) conclusion that we deliberately
poisoned their initial envoys and never really trusted us.] the nights
are very cold on Ishag.  Even with our peoples enthusiastic levels of
togetherness and action at night (orgies) the cold at night is one of
the leading causes of death in non technical populations.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:16:54 +0800
From: "Michael Bailey" <mickb@opera.iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #7

You'll have to send me the full text of the original Kenji, I only know:


The Ilelish bosses killed you Strephon,
'I never died', said he.


next, the Sylean Illuminati....


- -----Original Message-----
From: Traveller-digest <owner-traveller-digest@mpgn.com>
To: traveller-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM
<traveller-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM>
Date: Sunday, 18 January 1998 12:33
Subject: Traveller-digest V1998 #7


>
>Traveller-digest     Saturday, January 17 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 007
>
>
>
>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
>All rights reserved.
>
>The following topics are covered in this digest:
>
>Re: Calculating Stellar Mass
>Re: Calculating Stellar Mass
>Re: Religion Careers
>Re: Tech notes
>Re: Tech notes
>Re: spaceport authority customs
>Re: spaceport authority customs
>UK: Traveller products at low prices
>Re: Religion Careers
>Re: Customs checks and fusion stuff
>Re: Tech notes
>Re: Gun Geeks
>Re: Missiles
>Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #3
>Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #3
>Re: Darrians
>Re: Customs checks and fusion stuff
>Re: Gun Aficianodos
>Re: Microfoil - "New" Item for Traveller
>Re: Cool Minis
>Re: Cool Minis
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 17:33:59 GMT
>From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: Calculating Stellar Mass
>
>According to an astronomy text book I have, there is a mass-luminosity
>relationship (shown in a graph in the book) as well as a T^4
>relationship between temperature (aka spectral class) and Luminosity.
>
>Mass from Luminosity
>====================
>I decided to fit a straight line to the stellar data from Scouts (CT
>Book 6) ... luckily I did not have to type the data in, as Rob Prior
>has it as part of his most-useful Worldbuilders spreadsheet for Excel.
>
>For everything except dwarf stars (type VII) the linear approximation
>is:
>
>ln(Lum) = 3.5 ln(Mass)
>
>or
>
>ln(Mass) = ln(Lum) / 3.5
>
>Where Lum and Mass are in solar units (Lum = 1 for the sun; Mass = 1
>for the sun).
>
>For dwarf stars (type VII) I have fitted a quadratic:
>
>ln(Lum) = (4.7062 ln(Mass) + 0.9798) ln(Mass) - 10.387
>
>or
>
>ln(Mass) = (0.0396 ln(Lum) + 0.3567 ) ln(Lum) - 0.6059
>
>Radius from Luminosity
>======================
>Lum = 4 pi R^2 sigma T^4
>
>Where sigma is the Stefan-Boltzmann constant.  If we want to use Solar
>units for Lum and stellar radius, then I calculate that
>
>sigma = 7.1 e-17
>
>Note that the Luminosity/radius relationship does not fit all of the
>data in Scouts ... this may be due to the use of visual (rather than
>all-wavelength) data for determining luminosity.  Perhaps someone more
>expert than me can tell us that.
>
>Simon
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 05:16:56 PST
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Subject: Re: Calculating Stellar Mass
>
>In mail you write:
>
>> How do you calculate the mass of a star when all you know about it is
>> it's luminosity and color temperature?  I know that you can calculate
>> the surface area of the star, and from there the radius using the
>> Stefan-Boltzmann Law.  I cannot seem to find any way to calculate the
>> mass, even though I would think that you could do it if you knew it's
>> spectrum, luminosity, and radius.
>
>You have to cross-index againts the H-R diagram. :-(
>
>For a given spectral class, in many cases there are *two* possible
>locations on the chart. For example, an M star could could a red dwarf
>on the main sequence, *or* a red giant and well *off* the main
>sequence.
>
>The only way to distinguish the two is by luminosity. Radiius only
>comes in as a sort of "side effect".
>
>This will also give you the *age* of the star. You see, the *real*
>determinants with regards to stars are mass and age. Temp and
>luminosity are "derived" from those.
>
>- --
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 05:04:58 PST
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Subject: Re: Religion Careers
>
>In mail you write:
>
>>    Why?  Well for starters, referees are not necessarily good actors.
>> Chances are during a role-playing session you're going to have to play
>> the part of a priest/shaman/etc. from that religion, and it helps your
>> ability to improvise out the scene if you have a feel for how they
>> should react to a given situation or set of stimulus.  For example, it
>> is unlikely that a priest who's faith believes in strict pacifism is
>> going to pick up a gun and start shooting at bad guys, even if a group
>> of PCs' lives are in danger (he may shoot into the air to scare off the
>> assailants).
>
>I refer you to the incident during one of the early waris in America,
>where a bunch of Quakers (most *definitely* pacifists) prevented an
>attack on their town by setting up a cannon pointing down the road the
>enemy would be approaching on.
>
>The enemy decided that given the lack of cover, they'd go bother
>somebody else. Much later, when asked how they could *do* such a thing,
>the Quakers replied that they never *loaded* the cannon!
>
>This may be the origin of the joke about the Quaker confronting a
>burglar. Said Quaker is clutching his hunting rifle and says:
>"Friend, I would not harm thee for the world. But thou standest where I
>am about to shoot!"
>
>- --
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 04:07:29 PST
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Subject: Re: Tech notes
>
>In mail you write:
>
>> At out power house we use a "Black Start" generator, gasoline poweres AC
>> system that provides minimuim power for contorls and electronics needed
to
>> bring the boilers and Gas Turbine online.
>>
>> Back in the '50-60's (when the boilers were still fired largely by hand)
a
>> steam turbine driven generator was put on line first to provide power to
>> lighting and switch gear operators.
>>
>> NOTHING is more scary than being in the middle of a power plant and
>> listening to the generators wind down as the lights go out! This happened
>> SEVERAL times back inthemid-80 to our plant, when we made the converson
over
>> to computer/DCS controls, until they worked the program and interface
bugs
>> out
>>
>> Re: Trav
>>
>> Maybe an more archaic design emergency generator is used, perhaps tied
>> through a small HePLAR? Wasn' t that the one that generated power as
well?
>> (Sorry don't have my books available).
>
>You'd appreciate what happened at one of New Yorks major hospitals when
>the blackout hit. They'd recently installed an emergency generator and
>so the engineer on duty confidently pressed the start button....
>
>And nothing happened. Their generator had an *electric* fuel pump, and
>no batteries. They had to drege fuel out of the tank, and run spare
>tubing up several flights of stairs to get enough pressure to start the
>motor.
>
>Another hospital had a better designed backup system. It switched over
>automatically, and everything was going fine. Except that it was in a
>sub-basement. Next to the river. And the sump pump wasn't on the
>emergency power board. By the time they realized the sub-basement was
>flooding, it was too late to hook the pumps up. So the generator
>drowned.
>
>I include the above as examples for referees to use when their players
>don't think a problem thru. :-)
>
>- --
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 04:15:55 PST
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Subject: Re: Tech notes
>
>In mail you write:
>
>> On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Anders Backman wrote:
>>> In my universe all fusion plants have built in batteries for three colds
>>> start attempts, aqfter that no dice in the world would make it start. I
>>> have a rare entry in my ship encounter tables for trader in need of
start
>>> power - a great way to give players rumors, try hijacking them or
exercise
>>> your favourite Hans Solo clone npc.
>>
>> What about a rechargeable batter?  This is what cars do today... seems
>> like that far in the future the same kind of thing would be available.
>
>I can see shutting down the plant because the engineer wants to
>"tinker" with something. As with a modern ship, you tend to keep some
>onboard power going (even *commercial* vessels of any size tend to have
>multiple generators), simply because generating it yourself is cheaper
>than paying for a power feed from the dock (ships use a *lot* of
>power). Also, in some of the more remote ports, the local power isn't
>what you want to trust your ship's gear too. Too many fluctuations in
>voltage and frequency.
>
>When you *do* shut down everything (or when a junoir engineering rating
>screws up and shguts off the fuel to the only *running* generator :-),
>you can fire up a portable unit and use that to start one of the
>smaller generators, use that to fire one of the biggies ("bootstrap").
>Or you can use the power from dockside.
>
>In Traveller terms, I suspect that a portable generator would put out
>enough power to start an air-raft or simliar item, and that would put
>out enough to start a ships boat or "small" auxilulary power plant. And
>that would be enough to start the ship. It's just a royal pain.
>
>Just off the top of my head, I'd say a plant can start a plant that
>has up to 10 times the output. Maybe 100. Adjust to whatever "seems
>right".
>
>ps. Even a "small" Taveller ship will use as much power as a small
>office building. And just *ask* a building engineer how much *that* is!
>Lighting and HVAC use up *incredible* amounts of power. And you can't
>exactly shut them down on a whim.
>
>- --
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 04:34:15 PST
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Subject: Re: spaceport authority customs
>
>In mail you write:
>
>> Anders Backman wrote:
>>
>>> >Then you must be nervous about the US and China. As well as all the
>>> >other members of the "nuclear club". And the folks with nerve gas, and
>>> >bio weapons.
>>>
>>> Private citizens of the Imperium was supposed to be able to buy missiles
>>> for their ships in CT, MT and so on. When TNE came out some wize guy
>>> decided that x-ray det laser nukes were cool so he decided that the
>>> missiles were of this kind.
>>>
>>> So in TNE and T4(+) private citizens may own their own cozy x-ray det
nukes
>>> (how that meshes with the Imperial rules of war is a question for the
>>> listoids that like the TNE/T4 explanation of missiles).
>
>My take is this.
>
>Given the things we *currently* know, making a nuke is *not* all that
>hard. We keep coming up with new ways to seperate the isotopes, and
>they keep getting cheaper.
>
>So when you add a few tech levels I see *no* way to effectively prevent
>any group of nuts with some time and cash from building a nuke. It'd be
>about on a par with the difficulty of building the "fertilizer" bombs
>used against the World Trade Center in NY, or in OK city.
>
>At the same time, just as "blasting oil" (the proper name for the mix
>in the above bombs) is used in a lot of industries, and there are even
>booklets from the goverment telling farmers how to make it and use it
>to remove stumps, there are going to be *legit* civilian uses.
>
>So, I suspect that the rules will be a bit different than what we've
>assumed. *Using* a nuke "improperly" is worth a quick trip to the
>executioner. But for "appropriate" uses such as some kinds of mining
>and engineering, and det-nuke missiles for ships, they are quite legal,
>but controlled.
>
>So, one thing that'll happen to a missile armed ship every time it
>visits a port is that an inspector from Imperial Naval Ordnance will
>drop by and check the serial numbers on the warheads as well as your
>paperwork on them. (non-ship users are inspected by the Imperial Army,
>or the local government).
>
>If you can't account for what happened to a warhead, or you have one
>that the paperwork doesn't check out on, then you may be in serious
>trouble.
>
>Sure, it may take a while for the reports to get together that show you
>had nine warheads when you visited port A, and only eight when you
>visited port B. But once they do, the Navy is going to want to have a
>*long* talk with you. Ditto if you wind up with an extra.
>
>Think of a demolition company or contractor having to explainm a
>discrepancy with his explosives).
>
>It *is* possible to obtain illegal nukes. But doing so is a serious
>crime. As is misusing legal ones. But since Piracy is *already* a
>capital crime, well, they can only kill you once.
>
>
>- --
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 10:13:33 -0800
>From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
>Subject: Re: spaceport authority customs
>
>>So, one thing that'll happen to a missile armed ship every time it
>>visits a port is that an inspector from Imperial Naval Ordnance will
>>drop by and check the serial numbers on the warheads as well as your
>>paperwork on them. (non-ship users are inspected by the Imperial Army,
>>or the local government).
>
>In the case of ships the communications lag would require the equivalent of
>a ships transponder on the missles/missletubes.  Don't want the ships crew
>forging the documents easily now do we?
>
>Demo teams planet side or in system would be a lot easier to police,
>interstellar vessels would be a _Real_ pain!
>
>Personally I think that the problems with trying to police Nuclear weapons
>would cause them to be classified as something that the average citizen
>wouldn't be allowed to have.  Furthermore, the Imperium probably has some
>_serious_ detectors for checking ships out to see if they are carrying
>Nukes.  I'm sorry, the average citizen doesn't need Nukes, or X-Ray Lasers.
>It would be a _very_ difficult and time consuming process to get a license
>for a nuclear weapon, even if it's only being used in deep space demolition
>work.
>
> Zane
>
>
>| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
>| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
>| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
>+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
>| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
>| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/                       |
>| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them.    |
>| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html            |
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 18:16:40 +0000
>From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
>Subject: UK: Traveller products at low prices
>
> Best Books and Games in Liverpool (Slater Street) is clearing some excess
>stock(*) at the moment, at a 50% reduction in price. They have First Survey
>(4 copies), Milieu 0 (2 copies) and the T4 rules (1 copy) at a 50% discount
>ie £7.50 for the supplements, and £8.50 for the main rules.
>
>At this price even FS is tempting...
>
>Dom
>
>(*) They are still stocking Traveller 4, it's just they don't seem to like
>having more than two copie of everything on the shelves at once.
>
>- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
>"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
>   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost"
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 20:28:44
>From: Paolo Marino <marino@inrete.it>
>Subject: Re: Religion Careers
>
>Dragin Magazine issue #101 has an article by Tim Brown "The Stellar
>Diocese" about the clergy career in CT format.
>
>If people is interested enough I'll try to adapt this for T4 at the end of
>the current thread (which I'm archiving, sans the part about girl
>roleplayers) using the aforementioned article and any ideas which surfaces
>in the TML about this.
>
>
>
>__  Paolo Marino  __          |Inrete Games Page:
www.inrete.it/games/gms.html
> mc4799@mclink.it (Preferred) | marino@inrete.it (Best for MIME/BinHex)
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 11:53:21 -0800
>From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
>Subject: Re: Customs checks and fusion stuff
>
>>At 12:25 AM 17/01/98 -0500, Ian wrote:
>>>
>>>ObTrav - this is how my Imperium runs.  They only pull away nukes because
>>>of the very real chance that those could turn nobody political
>>>organizations into somebody political organizations.  It is cheaper to
>>>forbid and inspect than to give away nuke dampers.
>>>
>>>Scott
>>
>>Lazy customs officers streamline the inspection. Just ask "you got any
>>fissionables on board ?", then spray the ship with a nuke damper. Works
>>like a a dream.
>
>Yep.  I have used this, and it pissed the players off tremedously, when
>they had just gotten thier well shielded compartment filled with detlaser
>heads full.
>
>They spent MONTHS trying to get back enough warheads to matter.  Of course,
>the peoeple were trying to appraoch Shudusham, which is not real tolerant
>in my world.
>
>They were even more annoyed when they realized that all they needed to do
>was say "yes, three crates, numbers 114, 117, and 119.  The rest of the
>ship would get cleared, and those boxes would get looked at.
>
>Scott
>
>- -------
>Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu.  http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz/
>"You die, she dies, EVERYbody dies" - Heavy Metal
>"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment results" -
>Calvin Coolidge, attrib. by Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934)
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:29:16 -0800 (PST)
>From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
>Subject: Re: Tech notes
>
>> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 98 16:48:55 -0600
>> From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
>>
>>  6.  Maybe your ship has several power plants and only 1 is needed to
>>      provide "housekeeping" power, so you shut down the rest.  Ok, you
>>      probably shouldn't do that, but see 6...
>
>Ack!  Endless loop!  Gimme a terminating condition, *quick*!  I've been
>reading paragraph 6 for three hours now... :)   [In the spirit of the
>Prisoner conversation, perhaps you meant "see 1"?)
>
>>  7.  Some duffus orders the Engineer to shut it down. ;->
>
>A duffus with pointy hair, no doubt.
>
>> >Most of them are fueled for a full year, and that fuel is topped of when
>> >you refuel.  Captains would probably turn the pant down to a minimal
>> >"housekeeping" level when in port, but why stress the equipment having
to
>> >re-fire the chamber?
>>
>> This I also agree with, but remember stuff happens.
>
>I would suggest that the standard 1-week-in-port task be changed from
>'cold start' to 'warm start'.  True cold starts should be relatively rare;
>Eris's list gives a good set of scenarios where it could happen.
>
>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
> --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
>   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/
>       "Every man and every woman is a star."
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:41:55 +0800
>From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
>Subject: Re: Gun Geeks
>
>Bruce Johnson wrote:
>
>>Of course, if there aren't any bleeding hearts back in Core, the Imperium
>>gets to be a brutal nasty place to be, because it's clear from Milieu Zero
>>that the Imperium was founded on the nastiest excesses of
>>the-ends-justify-the-means Imperialism we've ever seen. (The Zhunastu
>>rules of contact are pure Machiavelli) The rich get richer, the poor get
>>poorer, and soon the Imperium settles into a rigid caste society like the
>>Ziru Sirrka before it (any one who thinks Victorian England wasn't a rigid
>>caste society had best go back and look at the history books!) ripe for
>>plucking. Hmmm, then Dulinor decides to try plucking it...looks like the
>>seeds of the Rebellion were planted very early indeed!
>
>The Progressive Union of Sayat Spofulams will solve this problem, but not
>until c. 1205 T.I.
>
>In the meantime, where are the Wobblies?  No, seriously.
>
>A round of nasal spews to the first TMLer who can rewrite "Joe Hill" as a
>Traveller song!
>
>
>Kenji Schwarz              kenji@accessone.com
>TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
>Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:55:19 -0800 (PST)
>From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
>Subject: Re: Missiles
>
>> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 21:38:58 +0000
>> From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com>
>> Subject: Re: Missiles
>>
>> (forgive me if my physics are way off but here goes)
>>
>> Kinetic energy is a result of vector and mass.
>
>No; KE is not a vector quantity.  It is defined as
>
>  KE = 0.5 m v^2
>
>where m is the mass and v is the speed, indpendent of direction, in the
>observer's frame.  That last clause is the kicker -- the KE of an object
>is observer-dependent; two observers moving relative to one another will
>never agree on the KE of any object.
>
>> Thruster plates change vector (even if simply used for skipping
>> around the system).
>
>True.  Momentum *is* a vector quantity (P = mV).  Any change in velocity
>vector requires force (F = dP/dt = mA [if m is constant]).  Thrusters
>provide that force.
>
>> How can a change in vector not change the KE potental of an object?
>> Unless 1) the mass goes down, 2) vector is not changed (al la jump).
>
>By swinging the direction of the velocity vector around without changing
>its magnitude.  A 1 kg object travelling south at 1 m/s and a 1 kg object
>travelling north at 1 m/s (in my frame) have identical KE, and identical
>magnitude of momentum, but opposite momentum vectors.  Causing the
>southbound object to turn around and head north at 1 m/s will require
>acceleration, and hence energy expenditure to provide the force, but in
>the end, the KE is unchanged.
>
>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
> --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
>   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/
>       "Every man and every woman is a star."
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 18:00:23 -0600
>From: "John D. Muncy" <jmuncy@siscom.net>
>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #3
>
>>
>> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 18:05:49 -0700 (MST)
>> From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
>> Subject: Re: Gun Geeks
>
>> I have guns, and I'm a geek, so I guess I *am* a gun geek. Geek
>> isn't a nasty word, either :-P  Geeks rule the world one way or another.
>> You have a computer, you play RPGs---hell, you're a geek, too!
>> Everybody that reads this is a geek. Geeks of the world unite!
>>
>Point well taken, Merrick! My sincerest of apologies to the list for my
>over-zealousness and over-sensitivity. Please bear with me, as I am
>the FNG on the block-It is harder to communicate w/people when
>there are no facial expressions, voice inflections and body language.
>
>BTW, Merrick, nice job of diffusion w/humor! The Russian judge gives
>you a 9.5 (they never give anyone a ten!) Thanks.
>
>Best Regards
>John
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 18:00:23 -0600
>From: "John D. Muncy" <jmuncy@siscom.net>
>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #3
>
>>
>> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 18:05:49 -0700 (MST)
>> From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
>> Subject: Re: Gun Geeks
>
>> I have guns, and I'm a geek, so I guess I *am* a gun geek. Geek
>> isn't a nasty word, either :-P  Geeks rule the world one way or another.
>> You have a computer, you play RPGs---hell, you're a geek, too!
>> Everybody that reads this is a geek. Geeks of the world unite!
>>
>Point well taken, Merrick! My sincerest of apologies to the list for my
>over-zealousness and over-sensitivity. Please bear with me, as I am
>the FNG on the block-It is harder to communicate w/people when
>there are no facial expressions, voice inflections and body language.
>
>BTW, Merrick, nice job of diffusion w/humor! The Russian judge gives
>you a 9.5 (they never give anyone a ten!) Thanks.
>
>Best Regards
>John
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 19:30:35 EST
>From: Ken Kinkor <KenKinkor@aol.com>
>Subject: Re: Darrians
>
>Rating your memory at an 8 or 9.  A nice touch was a significant Aslan
>presence on planets in their section of space.  Their interaction with the
>Sword Worlds was also interesting.  Made for some nice cloak-and-dagger
>campaigns
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 19:11:18 -0600
>From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
>Subject: Re: Customs checks and fusion stuff
>
>Ian said,
>
>
>>>From: Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com>
>>>
>>>At 9:57 PM -0500 1/16/98, Richard A. Flores wrote:
>>>>Canonically speaking, "Fusion plants normally require a fractional
second
>>>>startup pulse from storage banks [batteries] equal to their output, and
>such
>>>>a storage bank is included in the mass of any fusion plant." (CSC p 61)
>>>
>>>The first thing I'd do on a fighter, then, is rip out the storage bank
>>>and let the carrier fire them up.  This would save on mass, which is
>>>critical in a fighter.  There are probably other kinds of ships which
>>>would do this, too.
>>>
>>>Bolie IV
>>
>>True, but fighters will IMO usually be using either batteries or The
>>Abomonation Known As Fusion Plus, as the minimum sizes for Fusion plants
>>are now too big for cost-effective use in small craft.
>>
>>The other thing is that batteries are pretty efficient. I suspect that the
>>battery to kick-start the fusion plant is only about a hundred ccs or so.
>
>At TL 12 one could assume a savings of only 10% on volume and 2.5% on mass
>on Fusion plants.  Fusion+ plants don't need the jump start.
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 19:35:53 -0600
>From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
>Subject: Re: Gun Aficianodos
>
>A gee is someone who eats live creatures.  I can understand why someone
>might be offended.
>
>Let's change the thread reference, I did.
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 19:58:19 -0600
>From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
>Subject: Re: Microfoil - "New" Item for Traveller
>
>Semo said:
>
>
>>I have a few other nifty devices on the way, just have to write
>>them up properly.
>
>Excellent.  Keep them coming.
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 21:18:22 -0500
>From: "Scott Spieker" <scspieker@ncweb.com>
>Subject: Re: Cool Minis
>
> For those of you who may be interested, I have a BUTT load of the original
>15mm miniatures, and I am willing to sell them or exchange them.  When I
>say BUTT load, I really mean several dozen, actually more close to 100+
>miniatures.  These miniatures range from civilians, to armored, to
>vac-suited figures.
> The set includes an open topped ATV as well as an open air-raft with seats
>and crew.  Several other sci-fi sets have also been mixed in to increase
>the number of figures to over 100.
>
> Items I am looking for and willing to exchange for are as follows:
>
> DGP traveller books:
> Grand Survey
> Grand Census
> 101 Robots
> GDW Traveller Books:
> Zhodani Alien Module
>
> Adler 6mm sci-fi miniatures such as grav-tanks, infantry, etc. - sold by
>stone mountain miniatures
> Dirtside range of sci-fi miniatures - still available through Geo Hex or
>Ground Zero Games in the UK
> OGRE miniatures - mostly tanks or OGREs - Hard to Find
> Micro Armor - modern, WWII, buildings, terrain, etc.
>
> If you are interested in purchasing or an exchange, please contact me
>through private e-mail:
> scspieker@ncweb.com
>
>Thanks,
>Scott Spieker
>
>
>
>>Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 22:47:25 -0800
>>From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <schoon@aimnet.com>
>>Subject: Re: Cool Minis
>
>>Michael D. Peters <Letterworks@Comten.com> wrote:
>
>>>On the subject of minis. I just picked up a couple of packets of
>Heavy-gear
>>>15mm. They're military types but in uniforms that, with a little
>>>modification and paint, can double as heavily armed civilians (typically
>the
>>>way my players see themselves any way, no matter what they are really
>>>carrying!!!!).
>
>>Just to be perfectly accurate; technically the Heavy Gear figs are 20mm
>
>>>By the way how many on the list are still playing in 15mm scale? I know
>that
>>>there are more minis out there in 25mm but I like the larger "table" top
>>>scale for 15mm. The half inch scale (from the old CT days) lets me print
>out
>>>scaled deck plans.
>
>>I WISH they were still making decent 15mm minis, but I'm afraid that
>>necessity has forced me into the world of 25mm.
>
>>...and even more I wish I'd bought a load of the 15mm stuff when it was
>>available. :-(
>
>
>>Schoon
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 20:23:55 -0800
>From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
>Subject: Re: Cool Minis
>
>>Has anyone else looked at the 25mm figs for Stargrunt?  Several different
>>armies, each with a variety of troops, including the New Anglican Marines
>>in very Travelleresque Battle Dress.
>
>  Good stuff, and (IIRC) all viewable at Geohex' web-site (along with
>the associated resin vehicle line). A bit pricy, but not unreasonable
>by current (highway brigandage) prices.
>
>>example.), and are even posed in realistic positions.  The only drawbacks
>>are extensive falsh and sprues, and a lack of detail around the face.
>
>  Faces may be by type (most of mine have helmets or faceplates), but the
>rest sounds like a production problem or an old mould - mine were OK.
>
>        Steven Hudson
>
>------------------------------
>
>End of Traveller-digest V1998 #7
>********************************
>
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>
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------------------------------

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Monday, January 19 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 011



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Mostly on nukes
PE Stats for 3rd Imperium
Re: missiles in space
Re: missiles in space
Re: missiles in space
Suerrat and Genoee
Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography
Definitions for infrastructure, trade, and tech level
Re: missiles in space
Re: missiles in space
Re: Darrians
Re: missiles in space
Re: missiles in space
All change at IG?
Re: Foundation
Re: missiles in space (fwd)
Re: missiles in space
Re: Missiles
Re: Cool Minis

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 15:50:01 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Mostly on nukes

<lots snipped here>
>Why? No offense, but *ships* are more dangerous than nukes. And most of
>the uses for uranium and thorium are such that the type of controls you
>are talking about would be ludicrous.
>
>Do you notice that sort of control on sales of fuel oil or fertilizer?
>Then the Imperium won't have them on "ordinary" uranium and thorium.

I agree that ships are more dangerous than nukes and we all know what
handwaving is required to avoid that from crashing the canon but the
Imperium IS canon-wise very restrictive about nukes. The Imperial rules of
war expressly forbids any use of nukes wether one is a mercenary unit or
whatever. Either we ignore that part of the Imperial rules of war or we
cannot have det x-ray laser missiles. I prefer the latter: X-det lasers are
only available to military forces and the normal player characters can have
unlicensed KE missiles.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 14:45:43 +0000
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: PE Stats for 3rd Imperium

Yo Folks,
     I've generated PE stats for all the worlds of the 3rd Imperium and I'm
playing with them in a database. I've used standard PE genreation except
that I've assumed that by M1100 all worlds will have built their
infrastructure up to the most profitable level.
     You can find the sector data up on
ftp://ftp.maths.tcd.ie/pub/jaymin/trav/sectors.zip
     You can find the PE data up on
ftp://ftp.maths.tcd.ie/pub/jaymin/trav/secpe.zip in a comma delimited text
file suitable for importation into most DB & spreadsheet programs.
     [The PE generation was done with new code in the ttg's java
libraries.]

     There are a total of 8496 worlds in the 3rd Imperium.
     Here are the Imperium wide averages:
     Resources      8
     Labour         4
     Infrustructure 6
     Culture        6
     Base Demand    7
     Total Demand   6
     Labour Factor  16.9
     Base Tax       22%
     Social Tax     11%
     Tax Rate       33%
     Govern Budget  119.6 RU
     Military Expn  80.8 RU
     Civilian Expn  38.8 RU
       Military Size  21


The total Imports are 1979, Exports 13398. The discontinuity is because PE
doesn't make you specify where you are importing from or where you are
exporting to. It is interesting in that it implies that the Imperium, as a
whole, has more than enough resources to meet its needs.

The Gross Imperial Product (sum of all Gross World Products) is 4,804,366
RU. Assuming the suggested 10% median tax, the Annual Imperial Revenue is
93,991 RU.

The planet with the highest GWP is Khaklan, 3220 Reaver's Deep at 66,150
RU. This accounts for 2.6% of the Imperial Revenue! 20% of the Imperial
Revenue is accounted for amongst 15 planets.
62 planets have a GWP of over 10,000 RU. 381 planets have a GWP of over
1,000 RU.

There are 6227 worlds (73%) contribute less than .05 RU each to the
Imperial coffers.

Given the combination of over resources and the underexploitation of
Imperial worlds, you would think that there was a lot more scope for
internal improvement rather than spatial expansion. Something for a much
smaller Pocket Empire to consider...

Cheers,

Jo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:45:37 -0600
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Re: missiles in space

At 12:17 PM 1/19/98 +0100, you wrote:
>To the defense of x-ray pumped lasers.....
>
>As of today all naval ships has some kind of defense-system against
>missiles. eg the US Navy has it's PHALANX which is capable of destroying
>virtually ALL incoming missiles that is visible on the radar. These systems
>usually has a range of 3-4 km and consists of several autocannons (vulcan).
>If all Naval ships in traveller carried the TL10+ versions of those,
>wouldn't the KE missiles be virtually obsolete? A standard KE autocannon
>sure is quite usless in space combat but i suppose that if it starts to fire
>at incoming KE missiles at some 30000m it would probably score some hits
>because missiles usually fly in a VERY predictable path. If these systems
>exists, it would make the x-ray missiles much more useful, esp the ones
>(TL15) that detonates a hex away. Why not design a "vulcan laser" ?
>Specifically designed to shoot "down" missiles....
>
>
>my two cents :)
>
>--

Måns,

As a Former tech who worked on CIWS ie Phalanx, it can not destroy all
radar detected targets
1. It has limited ready magazine of 20mm rounds, around 900 rounds, less
one second of firing, so it has to be *guided* as to how long it can fire
at any target.
2. It can track targets beyond its firing range which is 2000 yards ie one
nautical mile.
3. CIWS has certain limitations on how it can *engage* targets ie if two or
more incoming targets have the closing rate and range CIWS will not
*engage* those targets.

One KKM approach  that is very workable is to have the missile armored to
resist PD laser fire, you will have to use thruster plates or heplar to do
it very well though.

The KKM missile can carry very small nukes, released prior to the KKM
submunitions, to detonate ahead of the KKM submunitons, creating a sensor
blind spot, allowing the KKM submunitions to get closer to the target.

I have designed two missiles that are *canon* "Bubba" and "Little Bubba"
that can carry nukes, KKM and combinations of both. Both are larger than
the standard size missile but they are designed to be reusable. They have a
duration in hours at 12 G's plus. They are intelligent enough not to
present a *predictable*  approach.
- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:59:50 -0600 (CST)
From: Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com>
Subject: Re: missiles in space

Keep in mind that in space, unlike in an atmosphere, there is no air to
slow the bits of a blown apart missile down and there is no gravity to
pull the bits down into the water after you blow it apart.  A kinetic
energy missile shot by anti-missile weapons becomes a lot of smaller
kinetic energy missiles.  Anti-missile weapons would work against nuclear
or chemical explosives by destroying the mechanism, but kinetic energy
missiles are generally very dense (and therefore hard to damange) and
don't have a mechanism to destroy.

You can still shoot out the engine and then dodge if you detect it
far enough away, but it's not going to be easy.

Bolie IV

On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, [iso-8859-1] Måns Gotare wrote:

> To the defense of x-ray pumped lasers.....
> 
> As of today all naval ships has some kind of defense-system against
> missiles. eg the US Navy has it's PHALANX which is capable of destroying
> virtually ALL incoming missiles that is visible on the radar. These systems
> usually has a range of 3-4 km and consists of several autocannons (vulcan).
> If all Naval ships in traveller carried the TL10+ versions of those,
> wouldn't the KE missiles be virtually obsolete? A standard KE autocannon
> sure is quite usless in space combat but i suppose that if it starts to fire
> at incoming KE missiles at some 30000m it would probably score some hits
> because missiles usually fly in a VERY predictable path. If these systems
> exists, it would make the x-ray missiles much more useful, esp the ones
> (TL15) that detonates a hex away. Why not design a "vulcan laser" ?
> Specifically designed to shoot "down" missiles....
> 
> 
> my two cents :)
> 
> --
> Måns Gotare
> havoc@gordion.se
> 
> 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:24:51 +0100
From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?M=E5ns_Gotare?=" <mans@gordion.se>
Subject: Re: missiles in space

- -----Original Message-----
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Monday, January 19, 1998 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: missiles in space


>As a Former tech who worked on CIWS ie Phalanx, it can not destroy all
>radar detected targets


Ooops, not a good idea for me to play smartass around here..... :)

What I really thought was that the TL-10+ version may have some
improvements......like a rotary 30mm gauss cannon or something like that and
a superior tracking "radar".

But as Bolie IV replied in the bits of the destroyed KE missile will stil
travel towards the target, so the idea was perhaps not so good
afterall......

I'll go for a white globe instead :)

- --
Måns

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:59:08 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Suerrat and Genoee

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/19/98 10:59 AM

Can't find the exact snippet, but IIRC Marc said he saw the Suerrat as the
villains in Milieu 0.

Is that why they're called Sewer Rats?  :-)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 14:11:00 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/17/98 02:11 PM

<<
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Can you remind me of the WHite Dwarf issue number that had the starport
maps in?
>>

IIRC, there were individual maps in several issues with scenarios, but the
one with plans for each type of starport based around "parkbays" was:
"Happy Landings - Starports in Traveller" by Thomas M Price, in WD 43. I
liked that a lot and have used it on and off ever since, although I'm not
sure all those 5 km runways are necessary.

Andy

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 15:01:43 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Definitions for infrastructure, trade, and tech level

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/17/98 03:01 PM

<<Scott Ellsworth wrote:
I explain the four tech levels that Earth has gone through in this century
as some kind of
uplift, as otherwise, Traveller numbers are hard to explain.  :)
>>

For a while I used the assumption that TL rise was an S-curve with TL 8 in
the centre, thus...
TL 0: 30,000 BC to 5,000 BC
TL 1: 5,000 BC to 1400 AD
TL 2: 1400-1700 AD
TL 3: 1700-1860
TL 4: 1860-1900
TL 5: 1900-1940
TL 6: 1940-1970
TL 7: 1970-1980
TL 8: 1980-1990
TL 9: 1990-2000
TL 10: 2000-2030
TL 11: 2030-2070
TL 12: 2070-2110
TL 13: 2110-2270
TL 14: 2270-2570
TL 15: 2570-8970

I've given up looking for a pattern now, just using TL 11-12 as the base
whatever the campaign, with more primitive worlds at earlier levels and TL
13-15 as occasional mysterious alien stuff.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:06:31 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: missiles in space

> Måns,
>
> As a Former tech who worked on CIWS ie Phalanx, it can not destroy all
> radar detected targets
> 1. It has limited ready magazine of 20mm rounds, around 900 rounds, less
> one second of firing, so it has to be *guided* as to how long it can fire
> at any target.
> 2. It can track targets beyond its firing range which is 2000 yards ie one
> nautical mile.
> 3. CIWS has certain limitations on how it can *engage* targets ie if two or
> more incoming targets have the closing rate and range CIWS will not
> *engage* those targets.

 Just a couple of notes, since I think my knowledge of the system is a bit more
recent than yours (and I'm about 5 years out of date).

CIWS (block 1 upgrade) has a magazine of about 1500 rounds, 6 second fire range,
can track multiple targets (i.e. using the search radar, not the track radar),
and a 1 second recycle time.  First hit range is [classified I think], but total
fire time would be estimated at 6 seconds.  Each unit is designed to be
effective against 3-5 missiles before reload.

Future upgrades were supposed to have a different gun drive system incorporating
a 2 speed system (slower for initial fire, faster once hits on target were
detected); switching to a 3 barrel, 30mm gun; and they were exploring using
caseless ammunition with a hopper feed.

douglas
FC1(SW/AW), USNR

- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:11:09 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: missiles in space

Bolie Williams IV wrote:

> Keep in mind that in space, unlike in an atmosphere, there is no air to
> slow the bits of a blown apart missile down and there is no gravity to
> pull the bits down into the water after you blow it apart.  A kinetic
> energy missile shot by anti-missile weapons becomes a lot of smaller
> kinetic energy missiles.  Anti-missile weapons would work against nuclear
> or chemical explosives by destroying the mechanism, but kinetic energy
> missiles are generally very dense (and therefore hard to damange) and
> don't have a mechanism to destroy.
>
> You can still shoot out the engine and then dodge if you detect it
> far enough away, but it's not going to be easy.
>
> Bolie IV
>

Aren't Traveller missiles assumed to be under drive until the moment of
detonation?  If the target has an active drive, and the missile loses it's drive
at any appreciable distance from the target, the vector differences will very
shortly remove it from the field of combat - the only danger it will pose will be
to navigation of _other_ ships.

- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:40:01 -0700
From: Chris Griffen <cgriffen@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Darrians

Ian or Katts wrote:

>They peaked at TL 16, 17 in some fields, when the Magriz happened.
>Essentially, some researchers were mucking around with a research project
>on the Darrian home system's sun (I think it involved meson beams), and
>they triggered a nova.

Slight correction: it's "Maghiz," not "Magriz."

I don't think they triggered a nova. Just some major solar flares. I could
be wrong as I'm also doing this from memory. It seems to me that their
central star couldn't continue to exist after going nova, though, right?

Best,

Chris Griffen

===================================================
Keeper of the Flame. Traveller player since 1980.

http://www.best.com/~cgriffen/traveller/deneb.shtml


- --------------------------------------------------------------
Christopher Griffen                      Phone: (408) 527-7189
Cisco Systems, Inc.                      Fax:   (408) 527-0452
NMBU Technical Publications

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:13:45 -0600
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Re: missiles in space

At 05:24 PM 1/19/98 +0100, you wrote:
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
>To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
>Date: Monday, January 19, 1998 5:00 PM
>Subject: Re: missiles in space
>
>
>>As a Former tech who worked on CIWS ie Phalanx, it can not destroy all
>>radar detected targets
>
>
>Ooops, not a good idea for me to play smartass around here..... :)
>
>What I really thought was that the TL-10+ version may have some
>improvements......like a rotary 30mm gauss cannon or something like that and
>a superior tracking "radar".

The rotary autocannons have a problem with ammo capacity, they fire so fast
that having the ammo capacity for them is a bit beyond what most naval
ships would carry. Unless you want a CIWS only ship.

>But as Bolie IV replied in the bits of the destroyed KE missile will stil
>travel towards the target, so the idea was perhaps not so good
>afterall......

What he said is very true, when I first got on board my ship the armor? was
non existant, so some anti ship missiles had a chance of passing thru the
superstructure before detonating, after getting aluminum armor? removed any
chance of that occuring. but the armor was added to prevent the soft *kill*
due to destroyed missile fragments impacting on the superstruture and
rendering certain functions inop.
- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:34:51 -0600
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Re: missiles in space

At 09:06 AM 1/19/98 -0800, you wrote:
>> Måns,
>>
>> As a Former tech who worked on CIWS ie Phalanx, it can not destroy all
>> radar detected targets
>> 1. It has limited ready magazine of 20mm rounds, around 900 rounds, less
>> one second of firing, so it has to be *guided* as to how long it can fire
>> at any target.
>> 2. It can track targets beyond its firing range which is 2000 yards ie one
>> nautical mile.
>> 3. CIWS has certain limitations on how it can *engage* targets ie if two or
>> more incoming targets have the closing rate and range CIWS will not
>> *engage* those targets.
>
> Just a couple of notes, since I think my knowledge of the system is a bit
more
>recent than yours (and I'm about 5 years out of date).

Very true, I was discharged in 1985, when to CIWS in General Dyanamics,
Pamona, Ca, USA for my system training. I had some very interesting
discussions with the engineers and tech there on future mods.

>CIWS (block 1 upgrade) has a magazine of about 1500 rounds, 6 second fire range,
>can track multiple targets (i.e. using the search radar, not the track radar),
>and a 1 second recycle time.  First hit range is [classified I think], but total
>fire time would be estimated at 6 seconds.  Each unit is designed to be
>effective against 3-5 missiles before reload.

Yes I am familar with the Block one mod but it was not implemented on my
platforms when I left. 

Actually I was hoping by now that they would be atleast to Block 2 mod,
with the RAM pods and other goodies. But they may have had implementation
issues to resolve first I hope.

But can the Block 1 mod engage the USSR *spitball* missile, you know the
one at 100,000+ feet, speed excess of mach two, the 85 degree dive attack
angle, a very large conventional warhead or ship vaporizing nuke, without a
designation by another sensor? ie search, track and engage. It could not in
the Mod that my platforms carried.

>Future upgrades were supposed to have a different gun drive system
incorporating
>a 2 speed system (slower for initial fire, faster once hits on target were
>detected); switching to a 3 barrel, 30mm gun; and they were exploring using
>caseless ammunition with a hopper feed.

You mean they still have not put the 30mm into CIWS, damn it.

Actually today they would be better off using liquid propellants that the
army is *playing* with for its cannons.

Sam Thomas
FTM2 
NEC's-Seasparrow, Harpoon, Mk 23 TAS, CIWS, 
OJTed-SLQ-32, and Whirly One
Certified Sonar Dome Diver(boy that was a mistake)<G>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 98 18:30 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: All change at IG?

Apparently, IG will soon be under new management (hopefully including a 
new webmaster). Anybody know any details?
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:51:56 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Foundation

At 12:05 1998-01-19 +0100, Lars Adler wrote:
>Hmhmh... I've got a ten bord regal of two meters width with mostly unread
>pocket books. ok, it is not completely full and some are read, so say it's
>only a fifteen meter stack ... anyone's more?

Not unread ... and most of it not SF ...

>Don't ask me what else I'm collecting ...

What else are you collecting ?


Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm  (Linköping, Sweden)
E-mail: jenry023@student.liu.se
UIN: 3844745   Get ICQ at http://www.mirabilis.com
Homepage: http://spacejens.ml.org
- ---------------------------------------------
"And I froze there, crouching in the small of plastique from the bolts,
because that was when the Fear found me, really found me, for the first time"

Hinterlands, William Gibson
- ---------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 98 19:57 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: missiles in space (fwd)

Moin =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=E5ns_Gotare?=,
	^^^^ is this ISO encoding realy necessary, I'm writing my german
	name also in 7bit ;-)

> I'll go for a white globe instead :)

	This is the most stupid idea you can do against a KKM. Black and
	white globes convert mass to energy with E=MC^2, 2d20 critical
	powerplant and jumpdrive hits ;-)

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:41:08 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: missiles in space

> >
> > Just a couple of notes, since I think my knowledge of the system is a bit
> more
> >recent than yours (and I'm about 5 years out of date).
>
> Very true, I was discharged in 1985, when to CIWS in General Dyanamics,
> Pamona, Ca, USA for my system training. I had some very interesting
> discussions with the engineers and tech there on future mods.
>
> >CIWS (block 1 upgrade) has a magazine of about 1500 rounds, 6 second fire
> range,
> >can track multiple targets (i.e. using the search radar, not the track
> radar),
> >and a 1 second recycle time.  First hit range is [classified I think], but
> total
> >fire time would be estimated at 6 seconds.  Each unit is designed to be
> >effective against 3-5 missiles before reload.
>
> Yes I am familar with the Block one mod but it was not implemented on my
> platforms when I left.
>
> Actually I was hoping by now that they would be atleast to Block 2 mod,
> with the RAM pods and other goodies. But they may have had implementation
> issues to resolve first I hope.

They were working on putting on RAM 'wings' or a stand-alone system when I left
the fleet.  I haven't really followed the development of CIWS since I left active
drilling (about 2 years ago).

>
>
> But can the Block 1 mod engage the USSR *spitball* missile, you know the
> one at 100,000+ feet, speed excess of mach two, the 85 degree dive attack
> angle, a very large conventional warhead or ship vaporizing nuke, without a
> designation by another sensor? ie search, track and engage. It could not in
> the Mod that my platforms carried.

That's a toughie...I know that Block 0 was very limited in it's search off
horizon - I remember that Block 1 went significantly above 60 degrees, but
I don't remember the exact limit (and probably couldn't publish it if I could),
but I think that the missile you are referring to would exceed that before it
began it's dive.

Based on what I remember, unless the missile was specifically designated (and
only Aegis ships have that capability), the system would disregard it.

>
>
> >Future upgrades were supposed to have a different gun drive system
> incorporating
> >a 2 speed system (slower for initial fire, faster once hits on target were
> >detected); switching to a 3 barrel, 30mm gun; and they were exploring using
> >caseless ammunition with a hopper feed.
>
> You mean they still have not put the 30mm into CIWS, damn it.
>
> Actually today they would be better off using liquid propellants that the
> army is *playing* with for its cannons.
>

That's what they should have used on the BB's.  It would have made the IOWA
disaster a non-event.  (sigh - I miss the big iron)
douglas

- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 22:10:36 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Missiles

In mail you write:

>
> So, the ship Z is on a intercept corse with a moon.. They will 
> arrive on the surface in 2 hours. Their PP is shot. Their TP's shut 
> down. They _slow_ down?
>
> My little mind is having a big problem with that.

*If* the TP is a partial intertia neutralizer, then the ship would slow
down *when* the TP is shut off. Then it'd act normally from then on.
Heck, it's even possible the the "resumed" vector might have it going
*faster*. 

Again, in the limiting case of *total* neutralization, the ship moves
at a speed limited by drag. And when you cut the drive, your vector is
whatever vector you had when you turned it on. Which may be a high
speed *at* the planet. Or in some other direction.

Messing with inertia tends to be somewhat counter-intuitive. :-)

> My take on TP's.. they generate a small gravatitaional feild near the 
> ship, and then use that to push off of.

Nice try. Ever try lifting yourself by pulling up on your bootstraps?
:-) 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 98 20:16 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Cool Minis

In-Reply-To: <34C3449B.794BDF32@uni-trier.de>

V.A.G,

> > Has anyone else looked at the 25mm figs for Stargrunt?  Several different
> > armies, each with a variety of troops, including the New Anglican Marines
> > in very Travelleresque Battle Dress.
> Some of the Full  Thrust Starship Mini´ s are also excellent for use
> with Traveller!

Denizen make some very nice figures, some of which make perfect Zhodani (BD 
w/clamshell helmets).
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #11
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Monday, January 19 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 012



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Religion & Drugs
Re: Guns of the Wild West
Re: Lifeboats
Re: Religion Careers
Re: Mostly on nukes
Re: Militias, Missiles, Nukes and Interstellar Economics
Re: Light Fighter
Re: missiles in space
Re: Lifeboats
Re: missiles in space
Major and Minor Human Races
Thrusters
Re: missiles in space
Re: Missiles in Space
Re: Mostly on nukes
Re: missiles in space
Re: Thrusters

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 22:58:48 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Religion & Drugs

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>>Kenji, Just what *is* it with you and this "capering ... glee" thing?
>>Are you related to Fnordykins over on soc.subculture.bondage or
>>something?
>
> I could tell you -- but then I'd have to turn you into a hamster.
>
> Kenji Schwarz              kenji@accessone.com

What! Not a blue plushie?

:-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 22:30:51 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Guns of the Wild West

In mail you write:

> It's also got a huge list of refernce books for sale, which serve as a
> great source to look for in the library, covering just about all aspects
> of (roughly) 18th-19th century life, with an emphasis on material for
> re-enactors, so it's lots of stuff about clothing, tools, weapons, etc. 

If anybody needs it to freak out their characters, I've got a
description of *exactly* how one produces saltpeter. It'll gross out a
lot of people.

The other steps in producing powder are fairly simple, though not
always what you'd expect.

But there are several places where many a character is going to say
"You want me to do *what*?!"

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 22:36:24 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Lifeboats

In mail you write:

>>I seriously doubt it. What are they going to use for *air*? And,
>>assuming enough air, you also have to deal with the rest of life
>>support. In order of importance:
>>
>>1. heating/cooling (you can fry or freeze depending on conditions)
>>2. removal of CO2
>>3. toilet facilities
>>4. water
>>5. food
>
> Isn't this what emergency low berths are for?

Low berths take both space and power. I was replying to a guy who was
claiming a lifeboat that'd hold 4 in under 1 Td. 

> Aren't every single one of these points a problem on every single boat and
> ship in space?

Sure. But they are also a *bigger* problem on a "lifeboat" because you
have more people in a smaller volume, and need high reliability. And
you want low cost too.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 22:39:45 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

In mail you write:

> hypothetical religious order/career, would be:
>
> Acolyte/Alter-boy
> Seminarian?
> Deacon
> Priest - minimum one per church.
> Bishop - one per system
> Archbishop - one per subsector
> Cardinal - like Dukes - one per sector
> Pope - Whole church
>
> But where do Monsignors fit in.

Monsignors (and Metropolitans, and a few other such things) are "ranks"
above priest and below bishop.

Also, bishops are one per *diocese*, and the size of those is roughly
set by population. Basicly one per large city or smaller city and
surrounding areas. One reason for this is that it takes a bishop to
ordain a priest.

Archbishops have arch-dioceses. I'm not so sure about the exact details
of how they differe from bishops.

A level that you definitely left out, but that *does* exist in some of
the related churches (in cluding ones that are technically part of the
Catholic church) is Patriarch. A Patriarch is typically in charge of a
"Rite" or a country. They're a step below the Pope in the churches that
recognize the Pope, and co-equal with the Pope in those that don't
(they consider him to be the Patriarch of Rome).

> And Monks and Abbots.  Would the latter be similar to enlisted ranks?

No, they are a seperate and somewhat parallel system. Monks (and Nuns)
are in some ways a similar rank to priest. The Abbot/Mother Superior
are somewhat similar to a bishop. And the head of the order is up there
with the cardinals.

I rather suspect that low pop worlds will not get much past Bishop.
They'd be responsible to a subsector or sector Patriarch. Higher pop
worlds will go clear to Patriarch. And the Patriarchs will be under the
Pope. 

I'm not sure where to fit in the Cardinals. But the reason for placing
Patriarchs where I do is that they, and not cardinals are empowered to
make rulings on *doctrine*. The Pope can overrule them, but until he
does, it stands. 

I expect that given the area to be covered, the Church would have
cardinals below patriarchs, with the cardinals electing patriarchs, and
the patriarchs electing a Pope (when one is needed).

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 22:17:46 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Mostly on nukes

In mail you write:

> Moin Leonard Erickson,
>
>> Nope. Not at all. For one thing Uranium has uses other than using it in
>> reactors or bombs. For one, it's one of the few *decent* yellow glazes
>> for ceramics. It gives a good orange, too. 
>
>         Well I dont know about US, but those glazes are forbidden in gemany.

You sure about that? And do they also ban the "mantles" for gasoline
lanterns? 

>> Why? No offense, but *ships* are more dangerous than nukes. And most of
>> the uses for uranium and thorium are such that the type of controls you
>> are talking about would be ludicrous.
>
>         Imho fusion give the posibility to taboo dirty nuclear power, and
>         a lot of governments will do so, restricting them to military use.

Fusion isn't necessarily all that "clean". The "easier" types all
produce *lots* of neutrons, which tend to make everything in the
vicinity radioactive.

Likewise, fission is *not* necessarily as "dirty" as some would make
out. "High level" waste is, by the laws of physics, *short* half-life
material. That means that the radiation drops off rather quickly with
time. In less than 300 years, "high level" waste is no more radioactive
than the original uranium ore. "Low level" waste isn't that radioactive
to start with.

>         So a government may decide that only the highport is extrality
>         zone, and I would not even be allowed for a TL:9 fission/heplar
>         ship to land at downport. Other government will bann nuclear
>         missiles in their system, allowing them only for own SDB's and
>         perhaps for imperial Navy. Any merchant or mercenary ship who has
>         them will be confiscated.

If they've go Imperial permits, a member government had better *not*
try confiscating them. But they *could* force the ship to stay out at
the 100 diameter limit (or wherever it was when they found out about
the nukes), and run it thru the fastest practical refuel and resupply
and make them jump out. And they'd have made it well known that they
don't allow nukes in system. So the only ships bring ing them there
would be misjumps.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 21:51:55 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Militias, Missiles, Nukes and Interstellar Economics

In mail you write:

> Moin Leonard Erickson,
>
>> And what about my "Old Trader" that's got a fission powerplant and
>> NERVA type rocket propulsion? :-)
>
>         this ship is is not allowed inside of the Sylean subsector because
>         of ecologicial law enforcements. It will be moved to the junkyard,
>         where it's belongs.

Contary to popular belief, the exhaust of a NERVA is *not* radioactive.
It's just *very* hot hydrogen. And it's not nearly as destructive as,
say, HEPlar. 

As for junking it, such a ship should be quite viable. After all, the
powerplant doesn't need to be fueled for years at a time. And it uses
LH2 for propulsion, so that's not a problem. 

It will be slower, as to save fuel it'll boost from the surface (or
from the highport) into a transfer orbit and coast to the 100 diameter
limit. But not all *that* much slower. 

This sort of thing would either be a "new" ship from a pocket empire
recently contacted by the expanding Imperium, or an *old* ship that
some folks with lots of time and the right skills, but with little
cash, managed to refurbish so they could go trading.

I think there really *ought* to be a small, but conspicuous, percentage
ships encountered that are *old* ship types refitted by folks trying
to get into interplanetary or interstellar trade on the cheap. They'll
be most common during periods of major expansion and recontact.

They'll be crewed by the *real* "misfits" of the spacelanes, but
they'll also take on the *strangest* jobs. 

There are still sailing ships cruising the oceans. And some *aren't*
merely personal "toys". Some actually manage a marginal existence in
out of the way places. And they do visit the regular ports from time to
time. The Imperium may have similar "obsolete" tramp freighters.

And then there are always the "collectors". You might get offered a job
ferrying some restored spacecraft from centuries before to its new
home. And the owner wants it done under its own power. And he insists
on coming along. :-)

When I eventually pick up FF&S2 or its successor, I'm seriously
thinking about designing both "low tech" space ships (I'll swipe all
those designs from WW II onward that never got built) and "upgrades" of
such old ships. The upgrades would be examples of ships that a
spacefaring culture that hadn't yet discovered jump would havbe and
then "upgrade" after being contacted. It's usually cheaper (if
possible) to bolt on a J-drive than to build a new ship.

Given a good design, and good maintenance, it's possible to keep using
a ship indefinitely.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 15:15:05 -0500
From: "Svenson, Gregory (FL51)" <gsvenson@space.honeywell.com>
Subject: Re: Light Fighter

I want to thank those who took the time to make comments on this design.
I believe it has been substantially improved with your input. I have
also included
a variant which includes some of the other suggested improvements to it
that
took it out of the scope of the original effort to make an FF&S design
to match the
T4 Starships Light Fighter design.

FL12SSC/L, Imperial class Light Fighter (FF&S v2)

Designed by Greg Svenson, Svensons Small Craft LIC
				
Statistics				
Tons: 10std ( AF Wedge Hypersonic )	Crew: 1/1
Cargo: 0std (0/0 /Pod:1x1std)		Volume: 140m3
Passengers High/Med: 0/0		Cost: 20.940MCr (18.846MCr
discounted)
Mass (L/C): 163t/139t			Passengers Low: 0
Maintenance Points: 19			Dimensions: 16.2m x 11.1m x 4.6m
Troops/Science: 0/0			Tech Level: 12
Size: 7					Frozen Watch: 0(0 group)

Electronics				
Controls: Dynamic, High automation. 2xFltComp (CM:0.5 CP:2.0). 1xFibComp

          (CM:0.6 CP:1.67). Terrain following sensors (TF:480, NOE:160).
          No bridge.
Communications: 1xRadio (50,000km, 0.02MW). 1xLaser (1,000AU, 0.00MW).
Sensors: 1xFld PEMS (12.5 [1.6mkm] Fld, 0.00MW). 1xLIDAR (14 [200kkm],
0.20MW).
Survey/Science:
ECM:
Signatures: Vis:-1.5, IR:-1.0 (-1.0 at 21MW, -1.0 at 4MW), Act:-0.5,
         Neu:-2, Grav:-1			

Weaponry
1xFixed Laser (+0) 1/2-0-0-0 [1,100/20-10-5-2] (LR)

Performance
		0	Jump
		5.1/6.0	Maneuver (/Thruster:21MW)
		0.0/0.0	Contra-grav 
3,983kph/4,279kph	Atmosphere (/Crus:2,987kph/3,209kph)
		8	Power (/Fus+:38MW,168.0 hrs)
		0.0	Fuel
	0/0/0/0/0	Accomodations 
		1	Life Sup. (/Ty:St,Nm /'St)
		3	G-Comp (/G Tanks:0,1)
		0	ESA
		0	Sandcasters
		0	Damper Turrets
		0	Damper Screen 
		0	Meson Screen 
		0	Force Field
		0	Gravtics
		0 [20]	Armor
		2	Structure
				
Features
1xAirlock
1xShip's locker(0.01std ea.)
				
Crew Details
1xMnvr.

This is as close as I could come to the Imperial Light Fighter published
in the T4 Starships book.

A variant of the above design, using the same engines, power plant, etc.
is
available. It has improved lasers and armor. A missile cannister and a
small sandcaster have been added. The G-tank has been removed due to the
now lower performance it is no longer needed. The big defect in this
design
is that the added mass cuts the performance down to about 4 Gs.

FL12SSC/L2 Imperial Light Fighter (FF&S v2)
Designed by Greg Svenson, Svensons Small Craft LIC

Statistics
Tons: 10std ( AF Wedge Hypersonic )	Crew: 1/1
Cargo: 0std (0/0)				Volume: 140m3
Passengers H/M: 0/0			Cost: 20.332 MCr (18.299 MCr
discounted)
Mass (L/C): 208t/206t			Passengers Low: 0
Maintenance Points: 28			Dimensions: 16.2m x 11.1m x 4.6m
Troops/Science: 0/0			Tech Level:12
Size: 7					Frozen Watch: 0(0 group)

Electronics
Controls: Dynamic, High automation. 2xFltComp (CM:0.5 CP:2.0). 1xFibComp

          (CM:0.6 CP:1.67). Terrain following sensors (TF:480, NOE:160).
          No bridge.
Communications: 1xRadio (50,000km, 0.02MW). 1xLaser (1,000AU, 0.00MW).
Sensors: 1xFld PEMS (12.5 [1.6mkm] Fld, 0.00MW). 1xLIDAR (14 [200kkm],
0.20MW).
Survey/Science:
ECM:
Signatures: Vis:-1.5, IR:-1.0 (-1.0 at 21MW, -1.0 at 4MW), Act:-0.5,
         Neu:-2, Grav:-1			

Weaponry
1xFixed Laser (+0) 1/2-1-0-0 [2,50/20-10-5-2] (LR)
1xMissile Tube Can 1/0 (/Mag:1) w/2 Command DetLaser 1d6/2 6.0G12 1000AU

Performance
		0	Jump
		4.0/4.1	Maneuver (/Thruster:21MW)
		0.0/0.0	Contra-grav 
3,618kph/3,632kph	Atmosphere (/Crus:2,714kph/2,724kph)
		8	Power (/Fus+:38MW,168.0)
		0.0	Fuel
	0/0/0/0/0	Accomodations 
		1	Life Sup. (/Ty:St,Nm /'St)
		3	G-Comp
		0	ESA
		1	Sandcasters (/AV:25 /Cans:1)
		0	Damper Turrets
		0	Damper Screen 
		0	Meson Screen 
		0	Force Field
		0	Gravtics
		10 [30]	Armor
		2	Structure
				
Features
1xAirlock
1xShip's locker(0.01std ea.)
				
Crew Details
1xMnvr.

Greg Svenson
gsvenson@space.honeywell.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:53:38 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: missiles in space

 
> Aren't Traveller missiles assumed to be under drive until the moment of
>detonation? If the target has an active drive, and the missile loses it's drive
> at any appreciable distance from the target, the vector differences will very
>shortly remove it from the field of combat-the only danger it will pose will be
> to navigation of _other_ ships.

True if it requires thrust all the way to the target to hit. But if
your anti-missile system turns the 10-20cm cross section missile
into a cloud of debris a few 10s or more meters across, it becomes
more of a hazard to the target. I think I'd have my missiles blow up
if any one of a number of critical systems is killed in order to
maximize this...

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:02:18 -0600 (CST)
From: Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com>
Subject: Re: Lifeboats

On Sun, 18 Jan 1998, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> In mail you write:
> 
> >>I seriously doubt it. What are they going to use for *air*? And,
> >>assuming enough air, you also have to deal with the rest of life
> >>support. In order of importance:
> >>
> >>1. heating/cooling (you can fry or freeze depending on conditions)
> >>2. removal of CO2
> >>3. toilet facilities
> >>4. water
> >>5. food

If this is a lifeboat, it shouldn't necessarily be for long-term
habitation, should it?  How about compressed oxygen tanks and/or
a CO2 scrubber, water tanks, insulation around the hull, batteries,
and a simple zero-g toilet that vents into space (solids, liquids
would be recycled).  It would be uncomfortable, but it just needs
to keep people alive until they can be found.

Oh yeah, a very noisy radio broadcaster...

Bolie IV

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:57:44 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: missiles in space

Sam Thomas wrote:

> The rotary autocannons have a problem with ammo capacity, they fire so fast
> that having the ammo capacity for them is a bit beyond what most naval
> ships would carry. Unless you want a CIWS only ship.
>
> >But as Bolie IV replied in the bits of the destroyed KE missile will stil
> >travel towards the target, so the idea was perhaps not so good
> >afterall......
>
> What he said is very true, when I first got on board my ship the armor? was
> non existant, so some anti ship missiles had a chance of passing thru the
> superstructure before detonating, after getting aluminum armor? removed any
> chance of that occuring. but the armor was added to prevent the soft *kill*
> due to destroyed missile fragments impacting on the superstruture and
> rendering certain functions inop.

I've been going through my mental list of missiles, and I can't think of any
ASM's that rely on kinetic kill.  There are some anti-tank, and one runway
denial missiles that I know of, but all of the Anti-Ship Missiles I know of are
focused blast (i.e. shaped charge) dependant for the damage.  I know that this
was a topic of some discussion during a fleet exercise, where several of us were
discussing exactly what we could expect with a live missile kill from CIWS.  The
basic idea being, that even if we killed the missile at the last moment and it
continued (in pieces) to hit the ship, we would have prevented the missile from
striking the ship in such a way as to detonate and focus the blast against the
skin of the ship and this would probably attenuate the damage to the point that
it was acceptable.

- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:00:12 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Major and Minor Human Races

Human Races of the Imperium (a partial list).

Major	Vilani
Major	Zhodani
Major	Solomani

Minor	Sylean (inhabits the territory around Core).
	Azhanti
	Fiorin
	Geonee (their culture emphasized technology).
	Acheron
	Suerrat 
	Illurian
	Luriani

Narc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:26:27 -0600
From: "Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: Thrusters

I was having a discussion with some friends about Traveller, and we got on
the subject of the reactionless Thruster. All of us were smart enough to
realize the problem, so we asked ourselves:

Why does it have to be reactionless? The classic maneuver drive was never
well defined until SOM - it was just "the drive that moves the ship that
doesn't take fuel".

Some thought that it must be a gravity drive of some sort, pushing off of
the various gravity gradients of the system it is in. Of course, that
introduces a hiccup in the form of varying performance depending on the
local space-time curvature (read: gravity).

Some of us thought it might be an "exotic particle" drive - that is, some
generated particle is used as the reaction mass. Of course this has the
problem that most such particles wouldn't be able to generate the thrust
necessary, since their mass is so small.

Anyone have any ideas on this? My group wants a decent explanation for the
thruster unit (doesn't have to be perfect) that fits classic Traveller (our
campaign setting) - thus HEPlaR is out.

Thanks...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 98 16:26:12 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: missiles in space

On 01/19/98 at 01:53 PM,  Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com> said:

>> Aren't Traveller missiles assumed to be under drive until the moment of
>>detonation? If the target has an active drive, and the missile loses it's drive
>> at any appreciable distance from the target, the vector differences will very
>>shortly remove it from the field of combat-the only danger it will pose will be
>> to navigation of _other_ ships.

>True if it requires thrust all the way to the target to hit. But if your
>anti-missile system turns the 10-20cm cross section missile into a cloud
>of debris a few 10s or more meters across, it becomes more of a hazard to
>the target. I think I'd have my missiles blow up if any one of a number of
>critical systems is killed in order to maximize this...

That's why I asked about the Brilliant Pebbles concept a few days ago. A
KKM that doesn't divide into multiple targets at some point is going to be
a pretty easy target for PD lasers.  Admittedly, the missile/debris would
continue along some vector after being hit, but it would probably not be
able to track or change vector.  The really dangerous missiles would be the
big ones like Sam designs that break into multiple independent attack
vehicles (MIAV's) at 30-60 kkm, race in as close as possible then explode,
spraying an area with *fast* moving ball bearings.

My question from a few days ago was, didn't we decide these "pebbles" would
do significant damage to even heavily armored ships..if they hit?


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:35:11 -0600
From: "Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: Re: Missiles in Space

My take on the KKE missiles, with absolutely NO experience on the matters :)

I'd like to see the return of the KKE missile, because:

a) I agree with those who has stated that det-laser weapons may fall under
the nuclear weapon category. Could you rig a det-laser to detonate near a
target to get a standard nuke detonation?

b) KKEs were canon in CT and MT...and since I play in the CT universe (with
rules from all four incarnations), I'd like to see them back.

Interestingly, T4 has implied that det-lasers do fall under the nuclear
weapon category, by stating (in QSDS, I belive) that civilian ships cannot
mount MFDs - which are needed for missiles (unless you get fully independent
missiles). This implies that civilians cannot have missiles, either. This
was not the case in CT - civilian craft could have conventional missiles.

Now, I just gotta work on getting High Energy weapons back onto spacecraft,
and lower the TL of repulsors, and I'll be happy :)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 15:37:00 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Mostly on nukes

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> 
> Likewise, fission is *not* necessarily as "dirty" as some would make
> out. "High level" waste is, by the laws of physics, *short* half-life
> material. That means that the radiation drops off rather quickly with
> time. In less than 300 years, "high level" waste is no more radioactive
> than the original uranium ore. "Low level" waste isn't that radioactive
> to start with.

A "dirty" part of fission is the transport and disposal. Sure, the
original ore is just as radioactive (even more so, in many cases). But
it's *buried* deep beneath the earth. over 300 years is a long time to
make sure those swimming pools stay safe. 

The "dirtyest" part may be the seemingly cavalier attitude taken in the
mining and prospecting of Uranium by major mining corporations and
governments. Like ignoring and whitewashing scientific environmental
panel recommendations, worker dosage limits over ten times international
standards, test drilling over 600 holes into the worlds most
concentrated uranium deposit and leaving them open ... Take it from
somebody who lives in the world's largest Uranium producing area:
Saskatchewan, Canada.

Even in the far future such corner cutting and irresponsibilty may be
present.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 14:43:05 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: missiles in space

Merrick Burkhardt wrote:

> > Aren't Traveller missiles assumed to be under drive until the moment of
> >detonation? If the target has an active drive, and the missile loses it's drive
> > at any appreciable distance from the target, the vector differences will very
> >shortly remove it from the field of combat-the only danger it will pose will be
> > to navigation of _other_ ships.
>
> True if it requires thrust all the way to the target to hit. But if
> your anti-missile system turns the 10-20cm cross section missile
> into a cloud of debris a few 10s or more meters across, it becomes
> more of a hazard to the target. I think I'd have my missiles blow up
> if any one of a number of critical systems is killed in order to
> maximize this...
>
> -Merrick

The same issues exist for anti-missile weaponry as for the anti-ship missiles.  It
does not take any appreciable energy to add random vector changes to the Traveller
drive systems, and still get the missile on target.  In fact, I would tend to
believe that a spiral course would be a standard, it would allow the guidence
sensors a much better look at the target, as well as keeping the missile moving
relative to the target.  Unlike lasers, which must travel in straight lines and are
therefore vulnerable to relatively small clouds such as produced by a sandcaster, a
missile has the ability to manuever and keep maneuvering.  Even a cloud of pellets
several tens of meters across is not going to make a difference when we discuss SOD
missiles maneuvering to a detonation point 10's and 100's of kilometers away.

Reactive armor (armor plating that explodes outward just prior to missile impact)
may make a difference for conventional, skin-contact missiles - and would cost a
lot less.  But, for thoses missiles, lasers on anti-missile duty are virtually
guarenteed a kill.

douglas


- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:47:22 -0500 (EST)
From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
Subject: Re: Thrusters

Hello Folks,
  In response to the question about "technobabble" that fits the classic
traveller manuever drive question...

  There will be many different concepts, all with "holes" in them no
matter what you do - since it is a violation of "known physical laws".
One "theory" (read as technobabble) that I developed for reactionless
drives for another game system (GURPS in particular) was that the
Reactionless drive is the primary step needed before you can develope
either warp drives, or FTL drives.  Essentially stated, the maneuver drive
(so spake Hal) is a drive that "thrusts" against both the jumpspace
universe as well as the physical universe.  The "thrust" is in the
jumpspace, but the ship is in the realspace.  I treat the "reactionless"
thruster as a "field effect" with respect to traveller since it is volume
reltated instead of mass related (In CT that is). 
  I like what I saw in the FF&S(2) in that the ships were rated for mass,
and if the mass didn't fall within certain parameters, the ship designers
were advised to redesign the ship, or recalculate the actual "G" results
according to realistic physics (something about 10 kNewtons thrust per
cubic meter or something of that nature...

  In any event, I offer the explanation above as a means for your
enjoyment, not as a means for establishing a "canon" explanation that must
be accepted by all <grin>.

       Hal

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #12
*********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Monday, January 19 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 013



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: missiles in space
testing...
Re: Missiles in Space
Re: Darrians
Re: Major and Minor Human Races
Re: missiles in space
Re: Major and Minor Human Races
Re: Major and Minor Human Races and a warning to Kenji?
Re: Thrusters
Re: Missiles
Re: missiles in space
Re: missiles in space
Re: Missiles
Re: FF&S Question
Re: Lifeboats
4% city
Re: Thrusters
Re: Lifeboats
Re: Religion Careers

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 98 16:54:26 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: missiles in space

On 01/19/98 at 12:57 PM,  Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com> said:

>I've been going through my mental list of missiles, and I can't think of
>any ASM's that rely on kinetic kill.  There are some anti-tank, and one
>runway denial missiles that I know of, but all of the Anti-Ship Missiles I
>know of are focused blast (i.e. shaped charge) dependant for the damage. 
>I know that this was a topic of some discussion during a fleet exercise,
>where several of us were discussing exactly what we could expect with a
>live missile kill from CIWS.  The basic idea being, that even if we killed
>the missile at the last moment and it continued (in pieces) to hit the
>ship, we would have prevented the missile from striking the ship in such a
>way as to detonate and focus the blast against the skin of the ship and
>this would probably attenuate the damage to the point that it was
>acceptable.

In *space*, Doug. In the atmosphere you are correct, but not it space.

A space missile will have kinetic energy (from its closing velocity) higher
than any explosive charge it might pack. If it doesn't have that much
velocity it will be destroyed and/or dodged long before it gets near a
ship.  

At least, that's how I understand it.

BTW, if the above *is* correct then TP better not play with inertial mass,
or TP's are right out for KKM propulsion. 

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 23:04:32 +0000 (GMT)
From: Eamon Patrick Watters <E.Watters@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK>
Subject: testing...

Hi,

I haven't heard a peep out of the TML since digest 2234 - what's up?

Eamon.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:08:25 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Missiles in Space

 
> a) I agree with those who has stated that det-laser weapons may fall under
> the nuclear weapon category. Could you rig a det-laser to detonate near a
> target to get a standard nuke detonation?
 
It _is_ a "standard" detonation. The only difference are some metal
rods pointing away from the center of the explosion. So a 500kt
det-laser is a 500kt bomb.

As for nukes being outlawed, I have since decided that the rules of
war forbid "indescriminate attacks against civilian populations."
I changed it (for myself) since there are many other ways to kill
off cities than nukes---rock throwing does the job, and once the
firestorms stop you can even walk around in shirtsleeves (unlike a
radioactive crater). 

> b) KKEs were canon in CT and MT...and since I play in the CT universe (with
> rules from all four incarnations), I'd like to see them back.
 
True enough. They were also cheap...

> Interestingly, T4 has implied that det-lasers do fall under the nuclear
> weapon category, by stating (in QSDS, I belive) that civilian ships cannot
> mount MFDs - which are needed for missiles (unless you get fully independent
> missiles). This implies that civilians cannot have missiles, either. This
> was not the case in CT - civilian craft could have conventional missiles.
 
You'd need FIMs (Fully Independant Missiles).

> Now, I just gotta work on getting High Energy weapons back onto spacecraft,
> and lower the TL of repulsors, and I'll be happy :)

PLasma and fusion weapons won't work at ranges beyond 10s of kms
since the bolts move at around 10km/s (that number has been stated,
but I really don't know how (or _if_) the original FFS authors
derived it. A plasma that moves much faster is a traveller ship weapon
- ---a PAW.

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 15:15:16 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Darrians

Bad language alert!




Lars Adler wrote:

>The most remarkable are their hair, which is white to bright blonde, and
>their pointed ears, which make them an elfin apperance. Their skin is
[snip]
>They are tall and thin, showing a genetic alteration which makes them burn
[snip]

Aiieeeee!

As C.S. Lewis, godfather of the Fteirle and all-around occasional right-on
guy, said to J.R.R. Tolkien at a meeting of the Inklings, "Jesus Christ!
Not another fucking elf!"


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 15:22:50 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Major and Minor Human Races

>Human Races of the Imperium (a partial list).
[snip]
>
>Narc Miller

HOLY CRAP!!!!

<flush drug drug down toilet>
<throw blanket over jet bong>
<attach Windex bottle to transdermal injector, look busy at window>


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:58:35 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: missiles in space

 
> >ship, we would have prevented the missile from striking the ship in such a
> >way as to detonate and focus the blast against the skin of the ship and
> >this would probably attenuate the damage to the point that it was
> >acceptable.
> 
> In *space*, Doug. In the atmosphere you are correct, but not it space.
> 
> A space missile will have kinetic energy (from its closing velocity) higher
> than any explosive charge it might pack. If it doesn't have that much
> velocity it will be destroyed and/or dodged long before it gets near a
> ship.  

Eris is right. A modern missile moves what? Mach 3? Mach 3 is about
a km/s. A space missile in traveller would hit at something like
100km/s. The KE goes as v^2, so the space missile (of the same mass)
has 10,000 times the KE of the modern naval missile.

This leads to another point. Maneuvering the missile is really hard
since it is going so fast, so missiles aren't very good at dodging
since they have to set up the intercept vector from pretty far out
at thos kinds of closing velocities. That's why non-det-laser
missiles will likely be fragmentation weapons. Bearing ball sized
shot is really nasty at 100km/s (0.5 MJ for a single 0.1
gram bb). Target and missile are coming head on at each other, CVs
of 2-400 km/s wouldn't be uncommon (4.5MJ for 300km/s). If the bbs
are more like a gram (00 shot sized) then it goes up by a factor of
10 (linear with mass).

Bb missiles aren't as nasty as we originally thought, but are still
good weapons---something that is nice since we can design KKMs
instead of nukes to make things seem more like the good ole days
when our free trader buddies didn't have a dozen strategic nukes in
their ship :-)

multi-ton t-plate missiles are another story.

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:05:39 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Major and Minor Human Races

N^HMarc Miller wrote:

>Human Races of the Imperium (a partial list).
[snip]
>Minor   Sylean (inhabits the territory around Core).
>        Azhanti
>        Fiorin
>        Geonee (their culture emphasized technology).
>        Acheron
>        Suerrat
>        Illurian
>        Luriani

I'm sort of fond of future anthropology, and managed to assemble the
following list of published Ancient-transplanted human populations over
time:

Name         Homeworld/Sector        Citation
Answerin     Answerin/Vland          Vilani & Vargr
Cafadan      ? Corridor              Traveller Digest ?  also on WWW?
Darmine      Irap? /Zarushagar       ?
Darrian      Darrian/S.Marches       um... since way back when.
Floriani     ? Trojan Reaches        Traveller Digest ? [as someone else
       suggested recently, perhaps these are the "Fiorin" mentioned above? It.
       "fiori" ~ Lat. "florae"]
Dynchia      Melantris/Leonidae (or Crucis Margin?)   JTAS
Issugar      ? near Zho. Consulate   Alien Realms
Mal'Gnar     ? The Beyond            The Beyond sector book
Tapazmal     ? Reft                  Traveller Digest ?
Thaggeshi    Thaggesh/Vland          Vilani & Vargr
Vlazhdumecta (also Vlazhumecta?)
             ? Far Frontiers         ? canon; part of HIWG-Yiklerdanzh writeup
Zairis       ? Glimmerdrift Reaches  Glimmerdrift Reaches book

No longer with us are:
*Khula ?     Khula/Vland             Vilani & Vargr     (extinct)
*Loeskalth   ? Gushmege              Sky Raiders Trilogy (extinct)

And I'm not sure if these are Grampy's or not, but:
*Iltharans   ? Reaver's Deep         Double Adventure 6

Are all these folks still "canon" in MMT?  Are there more in Alien Archive
that I'm missing?  I've been reluctant to ante up for a copy of it yet...


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:31:40 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Major and Minor Human Races and a warning to Kenji?

<twine tentacles in deep gratification>
>
> Soon, soon, we'll have you all smoking drug drug through rolled-up copies
> of _Starships_ and _First Survey_ while sacrificing kidnapped homosexual
> babies at Lenin's mausoleum.  Yes!  And your little dogs too!
>
> <caper in silent glee>
>
> M. Kenji

- -----Original Message-----
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Monday, January 19, 1998 5:29 PM
Subject: Major and Minor Human Races


>>
>Narc Miller
 ^^^^^

Mayhaps Kenji has trespassed on the Traveller Prime Directives Once too
often?!
"Quick! Hide the Drug Drug!!! Hook it in the truster powered pogo stick and
launch it into a recoverable orbit! We'll ask the Sayat for asylem!"

And what kind of asylem is that?

<prancing in silent delight>

Mike  (almost ashamed of himeself) Peters

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 08:41:16 -0800
From: crystal <crystal@postme.net>
Subject: Re: Thrusters

Andrew Akins wrote:
> Some thought that it must be a gravity drive of some sort, pushing off 
> of the various gravity gradients of the system it is in. Of course, 
> that introduces a hiccup in the form of varying performance depending 
> on the local space-time curvature (read: gravity).

Is the local gravity in-system really that much? 

Suppose, you lose thrust and find yourself too far from any planetary
body to be in orbit. Would just you just hang there in-system?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:51:17 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Missiles

At 05:24 PM 1/16/98 -0600, Eris wrote:
>What was finally decided about the "brilliant pebbles" kinetic kill
>missile?  Last I remember the general opinion was that they worked all too
>well, or do I have that wrong?

The consensus was that any reasonably point defence system - or even
a single civilian laser turret - can guarantee a hit on such a missile
well before it impacts, so they're only useful against unarmed targets or
if you can overwhelm the target's point defence with a big swarm. SInce
thruster plates (or even fusion/Heplar) are so expensive, it's hard to
make the big swarm cost-effective. It's even harder for impact missiles if 
ships have dedicated point defence lasers - I had a FFS1 3-dTon ultra-rapid
fire point defence laser that could take down 50 missiles even if they
were 100-G maneuver and all arrived simultaneously. One subtext is that maybe
military ships should have  better point defence than the "canon" designs
do, but that's a lesser issue.

I have some FFS2-style rules for explosive chemical laser missiles - sort of 
a non-nuke version of the x-ray detlaser missile, for people who don't thikn
civilians should own nukes.

bruce

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:18:55 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: missiles in space

A few more notes:

- -if you want to be on a vector such that when the missile blows up the
fragments hit the target, you've severley restricted the ability of the
missile to evade - it'll get hit at much longer range, giving the 
target time to get out of the way of the debris cloud. (In practice there
will be a complex dance between the PD laser and the missile, as the
tiny missile brain trys to trade off ability to hit target vs evasion...but
lasers in Traveller are so good it's hard for the missile to win.
The same thing applies to submunition missiles - if you deploy abunch of
BB's you have to do it at just the right time, and you've made youself
predictable while lining up for the deployment. "Brillian pebbles" smart
submunitions are similar, since you can't get a decent amount of delta-V
onto a small submunition (though it occurs to me I forgot to give the AND
drive a minimum size...)

- -big, armoured missiles with BB warheads (Sam's favourites) have some 
promise - but to hit the target they have to trade enough evasion in that
they can be easily hit by conventional (non-PD) big lasers. You can 
overhewlm the big lasers with multiple missiles - but if I recall correctly,
Sam's big death missile cost MCr100; you can buy a lot of defensive laser
capacity for that money. 

- -the range at which a laser can't miss a missile-sized target is about
5000 km for a 100-G missile; it scales weakly with size and acceleration,
so it's about 20000 km for a big 10-G missile. A 150 mJ ROF-100 
laser will get quite a few shots in...

(And, of course,one good counter to impact KKMs is impact counter-KKMs.)

Overall, if you do the numbers, KKM's don't fit "classic" traveller very well;
they do overwhelming amounts of damage but hit very rarely. The det-lasers
(aside from their association with nukes) actually resemble the "classic"
traveller missile (moderate amount of damage, moderately hard to shoot down)
much better.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:36:14 -0600
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Re: missiles in space

At 12:57 PM 1/19/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Sam Thomas wrote:
>
>> The rotary autocannons have a problem with ammo capacity, they fire so fast
>> that having the ammo capacity for them is a bit beyond what most naval
>> ships would carry. Unless you want a CIWS only ship.
>>
>> >But as Bolie IV replied in the bits of the destroyed KE missile will stil
>> >travel towards the target, so the idea was perhaps not so good
>> >afterall......
>>
>> What he said is very true, when I first got on board my ship the armor? was
>> non existant, so some anti ship missiles had a chance of passing thru the
>> superstructure before detonating, after getting aluminum armor? removed any
>> chance of that occuring. but the armor was added to prevent the soft *kill*
>> due to destroyed missile fragments impacting on the superstruture and
>> rendering certain functions inop.

Douglas Glatz wrote:

>I've been going through my mental list of missiles, and I can't think of any
>ASM's that rely on kinetic kill.  There are some anti-tank, and one runway
>denial missiles that I know of, but all of the Anti-Ship Missiles I know
of are
>focused blast (i.e. shaped charge) dependant for the damage.  I know that
this
>was a topic of some discussion during a fleet exercise, where several of
us were
>discussing exactly what we could expect with a live missile kill from
CIWS.  The
>basic idea being, that even if we killed the missile at the last moment
and it
>continued (in pieces) to hit the ship, we would have prevented the missile
from
>striking the ship in such a way as to detonate and focus the blast against
the
>skin of the ship and this would probably attenuate the damage to the point
that
>it was acceptable.

In live firing tests of CIWS on a barge and other platforms they found that
fragments from a *hit* ASM missiles fired at the target, tended to cause
damage to structural items not protected very well, in one case waveguides
were rendered inop for vital radar systems. 

The term used was *soft kill*, meaning the target ship was not sunk but
damaged to a degree that its ability to preform its missions(ASW, AAW etc)
was reduced or rendered nonfunctional beyond ship's repair parties to
overcome. Net result the target ship will need to be placed in a ship yard
to repair the damage. Kinda like wounding a soldier rather than killing the
soldier, more resources/people needed to tend the wounded. In some ways
this was USN triple thinking at its *best*.<G> Rather than wait for some
nation to build a *soft kill* missile, they built a *defense* first. Net
result no *soft kill* missiles were built.

The USN decided that placing aluminum *armor* over what they considered
vital areas such mast waveguides, CIC walls, etc based upon data that the
USN had acquired from sources. The only obvious things that were over
looked was that the radar antennae were not so protected, just an oversight? 

In traveller the KKM may not penetrate the ships armor but the sensor and
communication arrays are scrubbed off, rendering the ship blind, deaf, and
mute. Such a ship will be able to effectively engage any target. After s
good KKM *scrubbing* it's PD's will be blind to any more incoming
*goodies*. Wave attacks for missiles are a good thing.<G>
- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:46:15 -0600
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Re: Missiles

At 04:51 PM 1/19/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>At 05:24 PM 1/16/98 -0600, Eris wrote:
>>What was finally decided about the "brilliant pebbles" kinetic kill
>>missile?  Last I remember the general opinion was that they worked all too
>>well, or do I have that wrong?
>
>The consensus was that any reasonably point defence system - or even
>a single civilian laser turret - can guarantee a hit on such a missile
>well before it impacts, so they're only useful against unarmed targets or
>if you can overwhelm the target's point defence with a big swarm. SInce
>thruster plates (or even fusion/Heplar) are so expensive, it's hard to
>make the big swarm cost-effective. It's even harder for impact missiles if 
>ships have dedicated point defence lasers - I had a FFS1 3-dTon ultra-rapid
>fire point defence laser that could take down 50 missiles even if they
>were 100-G maneuver and all arrived simultaneously. One subtext is that maybe
>military ships should have  better point defence than the "canon" designs
>do, but that's a lesser issue.
>
>I have some FFS2-style rules for explosive chemical laser missiles - sort of 
>a non-nuke version of the x-ray detlaser missile, for people who don't thikn
>civilians should own nukes.

bruce,

What was the pen value for your 3dt PD laser?

What was the max range the PD could begin firing?

What was its ROF to engage 50 missiles at 100g's

How long were you letting the missiles accel, over what distance?

I tend to doubt the ability of such a PD system to effectively stop such a
missile swarm at such accelerations?

A what if then, could it stop 50 missiles at 30 G's accel for one hour each
dispensing 1000 ultradense 10mm balls?
 



- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:26:58 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: FF&S Question

Marcus A. Teter <galileo@montana.campus.mci.net> wrote:

>
>Hello everyone.
>I've been messing around with FF&S from TNE, mainly to lookover some of the
>alternate technologies.  I was wondering if anyone had designed a strickly
>sublight starship using the Bussard Ram or the Daedelus Drives.  I'm trying
>to construct a colonizer and have been overwealmed by the process.  Any
>help or recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
>
I did using a Bussard Ram to move a huge (2 mile diameter asteroid) from
FF&S2 will that help?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:33:46 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Lifeboats

SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com> wrote:


>>I seriously doubt it. What are they going to use for *air*? And,
>>assuming enough air, you also have to deal with the rest of life
>>support. In order of importance:
>>
>>1. heating/cooling (you can fry or freeze depending on conditions)
>>2. removal of CO2
>>3. toilet facilities
>>4. water
>>5. food
>
>Isn't this what emergency low berths are for?

Those of us who started with the "little black books" have an understandable
reluctance to get into a cryo coffin.

>Aren't every single one of these points a problem on every single boat and
>ship in space?

Yes.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:11:21 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: 4% city

I originally sent this back on the 10th.  Either it didn't get there or
didn't get back, soooo...


Anyone heard of a ship going 4% city?

If you have, can you tell me what it means?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 20:11:11 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thrusters

Andrew Akins <igor@ames.net> wrote:

>I was having a discussion with some friends about Traveller, and we got on
>the subject of the reactionless Thruster. All of us were smart enough to
>realize the problem, so we asked ourselves:
>
>Why does it have to be reactionless? The classic maneuver drive was never
>well defined until SOM - it was just "the drive that moves the ship that
>doesn't take fuel".
>
>Some thought that it must be a gravity drive of some sort, pushing off of
>the various gravity gradients of the system it is in. Of course, that
>introduces a hiccup in the form of varying performance depending on the
>local space-time curvature (read: gravity).

The "Official" explanation is:

"...thruster plates actually use the curvature of space in a different
manner [than contragravity], basically by 'grabbing' on to it."  (FF&S p65)

>Some of us thought it might be an "exotic particle" drive - that is, some
>generated particle is used as the reaction mass. Of course this has the
>problem that most such particles wouldn't be able to generate the thrust
>necessary, since their mass is so small.

Had you considered a graviton?

>Anyone have any ideas on this? My group wants a decent explanation for the
>thruster unit (doesn't have to be perfect) that fits classic Traveller (our
>campaign setting) - thus HEPlaR is out.

Why not just pretend there is one like you did when playing CT?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:19:26 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Lifeboats

Richard A. Flores wrote:

> SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >>I seriously doubt it. What are they going to use for *air*? And,
> >>assuming enough air, you also have to deal with the rest of life
> >>support. In order of importance:
> >>
> >>1. heating/cooling (you can fry or freeze depending on conditions)
> >>2. removal of CO2
> >>3. toilet facilities
> >>4. water
> >>5. food
> >
> >Isn't this what emergency low berths are for?
>
> Those of us who started with the "little black books" have an understandable
> reluctance to get into a cryo coffin.
>
> >Aren't every single one of these points a problem on every single boat and
> >ship in space?
>
> Yes.

 When the choice is to use the batteries at a rate of  1-4 days for life
support, or 1-4 weeks (months?) for low berth power...I'll probably crawl into
the low berth.

But I'm not sure....  ;)

douglas

- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:29:16 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

Leonard Erickson wrote:

> > But where do Monsignors fit in.
>
> Monsignors (and Metropolitans, and a few other such things) are "ranks"
> above priest and below bishop.

Metropolitans?  Do tell.  Time to do a little research.

[snip]

> A level that you definitely left out, but that *does* exist in some of
> the related churches (in cluding ones that are technically part of the
> Catholic church) is Patriarch. A Patriarch is typically in charge of a
> "Rite" or a country. They're a step below the Pope in the churches that
> recognize the Pope, and co-equal with the Pope in those that don't
> (they consider him to be the Patriarch of Rome).
>
> > And Monks and Abbots.  Would the latter be similar to enlisted ranks?
>
> No, they are a seperate and somewhat parallel system. Monks (and Nuns)
> are in some ways a similar rank to priest. The Abbot/Mother Superior
> are somewhat similar to a bishop. And the head of the order is up there
> with the cardinals.

Are there titles other than "brother" and "sister"?

> I rather suspect that low pop worlds will not get much past Bishop.
> They'd be responsible to a subsector or sector Patriarch. Higher pop
> worlds will go clear to Patriarch. And the Patriarchs will be under the
> Pope.
>
> I'm not sure where to fit in the Cardinals. But the reason for placing
> Patriarchs where I do is that they, and not cardinals are empowered to
> make rulings on *doctrine*. The Pope can overrule them, but until he
> does, it stands.
>
> I expect that given the area to be covered, the Church would have
> cardinals below patriarchs, with the cardinals electing patriarchs, and
> the patriarchs electing a Pope (when one is needed).

[snip]

Thanks for the great info.  Much appreciated.

I think I'll keep monks/nuns as parallel to enlisted ranks, with the other
titles as officer parallels.

Thus:

Novice
Initiate
Regular Monk (Brother/Sister )
Master
Abbott/Abbess/Mother Superior

"Ordainment" would replace the idea of a Commission.

Acolyte
Deacon
Priest -
Monsignor - large churches/church administration
Bishop - regions / lopop system
Arch-Bishop - system
Cardinals - sub-sector
Patriarch - sector
Pope - whole church


Hmm.  This still needs work.  I want to have a Chaplain and the monk/nun
system needs some thinking.

When I get something finally worked out, I'll put up a webpage.

Bloo

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #13
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Monday, January 19 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 014



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Gun Geeks
Famille Spofulam Armaments Thinks Small!
Re: missiles in space
Re: Guns of the Wild West
Re: Major and Minor Human Races and a warning to Kenji?
Re: missiles in space
Re: All change at IG?
Re: Thrusters
Re: missiles in space
FS: Classic Traveller]
Re: Thrusters
Re: Missile Design Question
Re: Printing Delays - Missions of State
Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 20:16:22 -0600
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>
Subject: Re: Gun Geeks

Bruce Johnson wrote:

[snip]

>
>Of course, if there aren't any bleeding hearts back in Core, the Imperium
>gets to be a brutal nasty place to be, because it's clear from Milieu Zero
>that the Imperium was founded on the nastiest excesses of
>the-ends-justify-the-means Imperialism we've ever seen. (The Zhunastu
>rules of contact are pure Machiavelli) The rich get richer, the poor get
>poorer, and soon the Imperium settles into a rigid caste society like the
>Ziru Sirrka before it (any one who thinks Victorian England wasn't a rigid
>caste society had best go back and look at the history books!) ripe for
>plucking. Hmmm, then Dulinor decides to try plucking it...looks like the
>seeds of the Rebellion were planted very early indeed!
[snip]

	What... you mean that there's any doubt out there that the 3I
_wasn't_ like this from day 1?  I've always seen it as exactly this way...

	And yes, I'm back.  I was cut off from civilization by this massive
ice storm that blacked out half of Quebec.  We lost power for ten days and
phone for somewhat more and had to move in with my brother-in-law.

	Amazingly, despite the fact that the weather dipped towards -30 for
a couple of nights, only about half a dozen hypothermia deaths have been
reported so far.  OTOH, carbon monoxide poisonings numbered in the
hundreds...  go figure.

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:48:07 -0600
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>
Subject: Famille Spofulam Armaments Thinks Small!

	For a while, following Hydro-Quebec's restoring power to my
domicile several days before Bell got me hooked back up to the world again,
I was stuck with a computer but no net access, and school was closed...  so
I started designing things.

	Lately, I've been kinda bored with the Famille Spofulam great big
huge monstrously big excessive gobs of dementedly fast or lethal overkill
on steroids and bad acid design philosophy.  And frankly, Mach-3 capable
HEPlaR-powered RollerBlades would be just plain cheesy.  So, I tried
designing small things.  I think that the following combine a "small is
better" attitude with overkill on steroids and bad acid.

	In the process, I discovered that at TL-12, you can do some
atrocious things with small-bore explosive rounds and advanced materials
>:)...

	Here they are...


News Item, Imperial Big Guns Magazine, Imperial Gun Expo Special Issue,
dateline Sylea 019-245, author Eneri Shugilli


"Famille Spofulam Goes Small!


	FSA's booth at the biennial IGE is traditionally a crowd-pleaser;
the Spofulams can be relied upon to introduce one or two ludicrously large,
high-powered, and evil-looking tools of ill omen.  This year, however, the
centerpiece of their display was devoted not to some outsized implement of
mass destruction, but rather to three weapons that collectively, probably
weigh less than any one of FSA's previous offerings.

	That's right... for the first time in their history, Famille
Spofulam have built a body pistol.  And, being themselves, they also are
offering to the public for the first time something they call a "Body
ShotSMG", as well as a little monstrosity they call a "Body Minigun".
That's right... a 6-barreled VRF submachinegun that measures less than 30
cm with its stock folded and which fires 2500 3mm HE rounds a minute.

	I was given the chance to handle the Body Pistol MK 1, as FSA has
prosaically designated it.  It measures a compact 12 cm overall, weighs
only 145 grams fully loaded, and is configured as a standard pistol rather
than sporting one of the exotic disguises  beloved of entertainment dramas.
Its concealability results from its compact size and 100% advanced material
construction.  While the absence of disguise may make its purpose
completely obvious, it allows the use of a grip magazine to hold 23 6 mm X
8 caseless rounds, and this in turn allows burst-fire capability.
Stylistically, it is a smooth, dark grey, sleek-looking little weapon that
is surprisingly inexpensive.  While traditional Spofulam aficionados may
find it a trifle small to adequately compensate for their shortcomings, I'm
sure that it will find a market niche among those who don't need to walk
around with 9-kg 15mm gauss pistols strapped to their hips.

	The other two new Spofulam offerings were demonstrated at FSA's IGE
press conference.  After the usual FSA buffet and wet bar (thankfully,
their new "small-is-better" philosophy has yet to extend to their press
perks), Hengabar Spofulam himself, dressed in a formal one-piece and cape,
strode to the podium.  After a few humorous introductory remarks about FS's
newly forged "strategic alliance" with the Sayat Concourse's SayBOOM and
SayVROOM, he proceeded with a startling demonstration of the "RoomSweeper",
as FSA have named what they claim to be the smallest autoshotgun currently
in production.

	Without warning, an Imperial Standard Ballistic Testing Dummy
(whose features, as usual, strongly resembled Sir Arameth Gridlore's)
trundled in from stage left, brandishing a large rock in an upraised hand.
Mr. Spofulam, with a truly dramatic sneer, whirled, cape flaring, and drew
a short, albeit bulky weapon sporting fore-and-aft pistol grips from a
holster hidden in the small of his back.  A transparent bulletproof shield
slammed down, presumably to protect the audience from stray pellets or Mr.
Spofulam getting carried away, and Mr. Spofulam opened fire.

	While the effects were not as spectacular as those of their OKA-SQ
multi-barrel vehicle-mounted autoshotgun, they were nevertheless
impressive; 10 12-pellet 18 X 56 mm rounds produced a large number of holes
in the ISBTD.  As he ejected the magazine, Mr. Spofulam noted that a number
of magazine options were available; the just-demonstrated 10-round box for
high-concealability applications, as well as a 20-round banana-mag and a
30-round drum.  He then proceeded to load one of the 30-round drums,
previously concealed in the podium, and emptied it into the ISBTD, with
predictably messy results.

	In this writer's opinion, however, the larger magazine options
defeat the purpose of the RoomSweeper; this should be completely obvious
from the fact that it is only 33 cm long and has a 12.4 cm barrel.
Clearly, the weapon is intended to be light and marginally concealable (at
the expense of range and lethality), and the larger magazines would defeat
these advantages.  Should greater volume of fire be required, the smart
shooter will simply use a larger autoshotgun.

	Following the ShotSMG demonstration, the press conference then
adjourned to the pistol range, where Miss Wiiniipiita Spofulam proceeded to
demonstrate the "Buzzsaw Body Minigun".  The pert and adorable adolescent
strode up to the shooting stand carrying a rather deformed-looking weapon.
A partial shroud conceals most of the Buzzsaw's six barrels.  It sports
twin pistol grips, the hindmost one accepting the feed from a surprisingly
compact 2500-round belt-pack cassette, and a folding stock complete with
shock absorber folds over the top.  The whole weapon, being less that 27 cm
long, presented a stocky and somewhat ugly appearance.

	Then, Miss Spofulam proceeded to demolish a long series of targets
one by one.  While the Buzzsaw's 3mm round is hardly high-powered, it can
certainly fire a lot of them; what the weapon lacks in stopping power it
certainly makes up for in volume of fire and psychological effect; it
sounds rather like the devil's own dentist drill, and the use of tracer
ammunition makes it look more like an exotic energy weapon than anything
else.  And with a full minute's worth of sustained fire from one cassette,
it gives the shooter ammo enough not only to clear their sequence of
targets, but to finish off by writing "Winnie was here" in longhand script
on the range ceiling..."


Spofulam Body Pistol MK 1

T4 Stats:

Damage: 		1 slug, 2.53 HE
Range:			11.85 m (Very Short)
TL:			12
Shots:			23
Mass (Empty):		0.091 kg
Reloads:		54.08 grams
Price:			226.5 cr
Reload Price:		0.84 cr

FF&S2 Evaluation:

Length:		12 cm
Bulk:		0
Mass (Empty):	0.091 kg
Mass (Loaded):	0.13 kg
Price (Empty):	226.5 cr
Basic Range:	11.85 m (Very Short)
Damage:		1 slug, 2.53 HE
Recoil:		16 (which is real wierd; I'd think it'd be negligible)

Round: 6 mm X 8 mm Caseless, Rated muzzle energy 111 Joules
Barrel: 7.5 cm light rifled TL-12 Advanced Materials
Reciever: Light Auto Burst TL-12 Adv Mat, Hollow Pistol Grip
Feed: 23-round Grip Mag




Spofulam "RoomSweeper" Body ShotSMG

T4 Stats:

Damage: 		9 shot, 3 slug
Range:			9 m (Very Short)
TL:			12
Shots:			10/20/35
Mass (Empty):		2.462 kg
Reloads:		0.627/1.2/2.06 kg
Price:			437.2 cr
Reload Price:		6.19/11.82/20.27 cr


FF&S2 Evaluation:

Length:			33 cm
Bulk:			2
Mass (Empty):		2.462 kg
Price:			437.32 cr
Basic Range:		9 m (Very Short)
Damage:			9 (according to FF&S2) 3 (fudge based on stock T4
shotgun)
Recoil:			2.4/8.07/12


Round:  18 mm X 56 mm Shotgun (12 pellet) Rated muzzle energy 1764 joules
Barrel: 12.4 (21.7) cm light smoothbore
Reciever: TL-6 Light Auto Burst, (TL-12 Advanced Materials), two hollow
pistol grips
Feed: 10-round box/20-round banana-mag/30-round drum



Spofulam "Buzzsaw" Body Minigun

T4 Stats:

Damage: 		1.4 slug, 2 HE
Range:			19.32 m (Short)
TL:			12
Shots:			2500
Mass (Empty):		2.67 kg
Reloads:		4.65 kg
Price:			4871.2 cr
Reload Price:		100 cr

FF&S2 Evaluation:

Length:		26.5 cm folded, 41.5 cm stock extended
Bulk:		3
Mass (Empty):	2.67 kg
Mass (Loaded):	7.32 kg
Price (Empty):	4871.2 cr
Basic Range:	19.32 m (Short)
Damage:		1.41 slug, 2.12 HE
Recoil:		0.5/2.5

Round: 3 mm X 20 mm Caseless, Rated Muzzle Energy 221 Joules
Barrel: 24.5 cm light rifled TL-12 Advanced Materials, TL-9 recoil
compensator (X 6),Reciever: Light Auto Burst TL-12 Adv Mat, 2 Hollow Pistol
Grips, folding SA stock
Feed: 2500-round fanny-pack Cassette

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 20:43:28 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: missiles in space

Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com> wrote:
>
>Aren't Traveller missiles assumed to be under drive until the moment of
>detonation? ...

Unless they run out of fuel.

>... If the target has an active drive, and the missile loses it's drive
>at any appreciable distance from the target, the vector differences will
very
>shortly remove it from the field of combat - the only danger it will pose
will be
>to navigation of _other_ ships.

If I was Emperor, I would decree, "All missiles must have a self destruct
mechanism which is triggered within an hour of drive failure."

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 20:57:01 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Guns of the Wild West

Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote:

>If anybody needs it to freak out their characters, I've got a
>description of *exactly* how one produces saltpeter. It'll gross out a
>lot of people.

Is that where you leach guano?  Why don't you post it, I'm sure it would be
good for a laugh.  Especially the reactions.

>The other steps in producing powder are fairly simple, though not
>always what you'd expect.
>
>But there are several places where many a character is going to say
>"You want me to do *what*?!"

Don't they always?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:06:19 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Major and Minor Human Races and a warning to Kenji?

Michael Peters wrote:

>Mayhaps Kenji has trespassed on the Traveller Prime Directives Once too
>often?!
>"Quick! Hide the Drug Drug!!! Hook it in the truster powered pogo stick and
>launch it into a recoverable orbit! We'll ask the Sayat for asylem!"
>
>And what kind of asylem is that?

Even I, their creator, would think twice about seeking asylum among the Sayat...

Dear God.  I just got a crystal-clear mental picture of hordes of juvenile
Sayat bounding over the tundra on Spofulam pogo sticks.

Must be a flashback.  Them and those pink Vargr.


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:10:09 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: missiles in space

Eris Reddoch <eris@pen.net> wrote:


[snip]

>My question from a few days ago was, didn't we decide these "pebbles" would
>do significant damage to even heavily armored ships..if they hit?

Where would I find discussion of Brilliant Pebbles?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:20:27 -0600
From: "vanya" <vanya@partyline.net>
Subject: Re: All change at IG?

> From: Andrew Boulton <aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
> To: traveller@mpgn.com; aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk
> Subject: All change at IG?
> Date: Monday, January 19, 1998 12:00 PM
> 
> 
> Apparently, IG will soon be under new management (hopefully including a 
> new webmaster). Anybody know any details?

No...but I know where they can find a webmaster, cheap! (hint, hint) :-)


- -Vanya                                         UPP-8D9B85
Traveller ---------------- Science Fiction Adventure in the Far Future
Meyers-Briggs personality type:ENTJ          | vanya@partyline.net
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with." | dmoody@bridge.com
Visit Not the IG Website- http://www.stl-online.net/vanya/default.html

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:24:53 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thrusters

crystal <crystal@postme.net> wrote:


>Andrew Akins wrote:
>> Some thought that it must be a gravity drive of some sort, pushing off
>> of the various gravity gradients of the system it is in. Of course,
>> that introduces a hiccup in the form of varying performance depending
>> on the local space-time curvature (read: gravity).
>
>Is the local gravity in-system really that much?

It is enough out to c. 2,000 AU (c. 1,000,000 light seconds).

>Suppose, you lose thrust and find yourself too far from any planetary
>body to be in orbit. Would just you just hang there in-system?

Don't forget the stellar diameters.

No, the thrust just drops to c. 1% of the amount within the 2,000 AU limit.

A T-plate equipped ship could actually transverse the distance between the
various stars in a
multi-star system (bianaries and trianaries mostly).

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:34:16 -0600
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Re: missiles in space

At 05:18 PM 1/19/98 -0800, Bruce Alan Macintosh wrote:
>
>A few more notes:
>
>-if you want to be on a vector such that when the missile blows up the
>fragments hit the target, you've severley restricted the ability of the
>missile to evade - it'll get hit at much longer range, giving the 
>target time to get out of the way of the debris cloud. (In practice there
>will be a complex dance between the PD laser and the missile, as the
>tiny missile brain trys to trade off ability to hit target vs evasion...but
>lasers in Traveller are so good it's hard for the missile to win.
>The same thing applies to submunition missiles - if you deploy abunch of
>BB's you have to do it at just the right time, and you've made youself
>predictable while lining up for the deployment. "Brillian pebbles" smart
>submunitions are similar, since you can't get a decent amount of delta-V
>onto a small submunition (though it occurs to me I forgot to give the AND
>drive a minimum size...)
>
>-big, armoured missiles with BB warheads (Sam's favourites) have some 
>promise - but to hit the target they have to trade enough evasion in that
>they can be easily hit by conventional (non-PD) big lasers. You can 
>overhewlm the big lasers with multiple missiles - but if I recall correctly,
>Sam's big death missile cost MCr100; you can buy a lot of defensive laser
>capacity for that money. 

Bruce,
Some nits to pick 

1. Bubba carries not only KKM BB's but nukes also. 
2. The typical PD will not smudge Bubba's paint job, let alone damage Bubba. 
3. Bubba is not disposable, it is reusable submunitons carrier. 
4. Bubba's evasion was very high but not as high as Little Bubba.
5. Bubba also can release the submunitons at outside the PD lasers eff range.
6. Does not matter how many *cheaper* PD's you have if they are not
*effective* against the incoming targets, learn to breath vacuum.<G>
7. KKM's can do a *soft kill* against a target, damaging or destroying Heat
Radiators, Sensor and Communications arrays, and damaging any PD's that are
firing which then exposes them to possible damage.
8. Missiles can use a similar tactic that some current AT missiles use like
"Bill" and I think "Tank Breaker" pass nearby(overhead) and fire a warhead
into the target(top).

My *favorite* is well blended mix of missiles, Det Nukes, KKM's and Area
Detonation Nukes.
That makes it harder for one type of PD laser to be effective against all
incoming missiles and submunitions.

>-the range at which a laser can't miss a missile-sized target is about
>5000 km for a 100-G missile; it scales weakly with size and acceleration,
>so it's about 20000 km for a big 10-G missile. A 150 mJ ROF-100 
>laser will get quite a few shots in...

????How fast can the above PD acquire, track and FCS to hit such a incoming
missile?

If the incoming missile is traveling at 100 G's for half an hour, its
*range rate* will be such that at the PD extreme range will have
microfractions of a second before the missile is out of the FCS envelope.
Multiplying this by several missiles, your PD will not have time to react,
track, and FCS all of the incoming missiles before they are on target.

Your example seems to indicate a *best* case for the PD, ie you know it is
coming and is just waiting for it to get into firing range.

Define big? the RCS for Bubba is a lot smaller than it's displacement will
indicate. That is using an old striker loop hole. As I was told "An
undocumented feature".<G>

Off the top of my head the armor that Bubba has is equal over 1,000 in
FFS2. I don't think your 150Mj Laser ROF 100 will not have much effect.

>(And, of course,one good counter to impact KKMs is impact counter-KKMs.)

Yes I agree, but you can also use area det nukes too.

>Overall, if you do the numbers, KKM's don't fit "classic" traveller very
well;
>they do overwhelming amounts of damage but hit very rarely. The det-lasers
>(aside from their association with nukes) actually resemble the "classic"
>traveller missile (moderate amount of damage, moderately hard to shoot down)
>much better.

Overall the current T4 FFS2 or FFS1 does not fit "Classic" traveller
either, heat radiators, log type sensors etc. <G>

Bruce,

It looks I will have to incorporate the *good* features of your DSR into
the Bubba line, ie military black, improved masking et al.

On more project for the bin.;->
- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:36:38 -0500
From: Tal Meta <talmeta@cybercomm.net>
Subject: FS: Classic Traveller]

Message-ID: <34C41B08.404@cybercomm.net>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:33:28 -0500
From: Tal Meta <talmeta@cybercomm.net>
Organization: Even the Illuminati ask me for advice...
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (OS/2; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.marketplace
Subject: FS: Classic Traveller
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I have the following classic traveller books/supplements for sale, but I
am only willing to sell them as a single lot, not piecemeal.

Traveller Starter Edition (GDW251) (Box VG, contents Mint)
(several spots of white shelf scuff)
Traveller Book 8: Robots (NM)
Traveller Alien Module #1: Aslan (NM)
Traveller Alien Module #5: Droyne (GD)
(Sticker mark, cover scuff, creases, some light interior marks)
Traveller Alien Module #7: Hivers (VG)
(several lines of green ink on interior front cover, otherwise spotless)
Traveller Alien Module #8: Darrians (NM)
Traveller Alien Realms (GDW262) (NM)

$85 takes the bunch of them, including shipping via USPS.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 20:07:56 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Thrusters

Here is my take on it:

The TP generates a small gravity well, which it then pushs off of (or 
falls into, based upon your take on it). It can swing that well about 
(allowing for you to manuver with out changing facing to much). When 
a ship needs to dock, it realies on it's manuvering thrusters after 
generating the needed vector with it's TP (we do not want a small 
gravity well slinging about in our docking bay) or it uses the 
gravity well of the object or some other large nearby object (star or 
planet) to push off of/fall into.

I also agree with MT, in that there should be a min. size to the 
units.

Cya



> I was having a discussion with some friends about Traveller, and we got on
> the subject of the reactionless Thruster. All of us were smart enough to
> realize the problem, so we asked ourselves:
> 
> Why does it have to be reactionless? The classic maneuver drive was never
> well defined until SOM - it was just "the drive that moves the ship that
> doesn't take fuel".
> 
> Some thought that it must be a gravity drive of some sort, pushing off of
> the various gravity gradients of the system it is in. Of course, that
> introduces a hiccup in the form of varying performance depending on the
> local space-time curvature (read: gravity).
> 
> Some of us thought it might be an "exotic particle" drive - that is, some
> generated particle is used as the reaction mass. Of course this has the
> problem that most such particles wouldn't be able to generate the thrust
> necessary, since their mass is so small.
> 
> Anyone have any ideas on this? My group wants a decent explanation for the
> thruster unit (doesn't have to be perfect) that fits classic Traveller (our
> campaign setting) - thus HEPlaR is out.
> 
> Thanks...
> 
> 
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com           http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

Thought for the day:
    The only thing that hurts more than paying income tax
    is not having to pay income tax.

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 23:06:29 -0600
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>
Subject: Re: Missile Design Question

Wildstar wrote:

>
>Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <schoon@aimnet.com> asked:
>>I'm winding up with Controlled missiles that have essentially Unlimited
>>endurance [...] It's just that the Fusion+ plant that powers the T Plates
>>uses so little fuel.  Is this right ?
>
>There should be a minimum size for T-plates that makes their use on missiles
>this small prohibitive.  Please check the text, because a lot of these items
>are located in the text because they don't fit (or make sense) on the tables.
[snip]

	But that would invalidate the Pogo Stick!  Whiiiiiine!

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 23:27:22 -0600
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>
Subject: Re: Printing Delays - Missions of State

Jeff Zeitlin wrote:

>
>I just got off the phone with SweetPea (I get better results than
>from trying to call IG direct) to clear up some minor problems
>before they became matters for the Attorney General.  In the
>process, I learned that the printer for Missions of State is
>located in New York State, not far from the international border
>with QuÈbec province in Canada.
>
>This is, for the time being, a bad thing.


	Hm...  you running for understatement of the month?  It deprived
over three million people of electricity in the dead of winter.  Amazingly
enough, there's been little looting here, however.  The fact that there are
a bunch of Canadian Forces troops policing the blacked out areas has
helped; the Somalia scandal is probably scaring would-be looters..:).


>There is a five-county
>area in upstate New York that has been declared a disaster area
>because of the recent (and possibly still ongoing) ice storm
>conditions that have so drastically affected that area, plus New
>England and QuÈbec.  Many utilities are completely out of
>service; a state of emergency has been declared.  As a result,
>there have been (and will continue to be, in the near term)
>difficulties in printing this item, which I am told _is_ in the
>printer's hands.


	Not surprised.  Large areas of Montreal were without power for over
a week.  The South Shore is still largely in the dark, and an area running
down to the US border has been dubbed the "Triangle of Darkness" by the
local media.  They will be without power for another week at least.  Rural
Eastern Ontario has been badly hit as well and there are still a lot of
people without power.  The local news doesn't say a lot about upstate New
York, but apparently they're in prety deep trouble too.


>
>Special note for gearheads: In your various designs for power
>plants, you now need to include railroad locomotives for TL7+ -
>when I was listening to the radio this morning, they said that
>one municipality in QuÈbec was using two of them as emergency
>generators.

	I've seen footage of this on the news; Brossard (a suburb of
Montreal on the south shore of the St-Lawrence) has two honking big CN
diesels (I think one is a geep although I could be wrong) sitting on the
street outside the Town Hall.  They hoisted them off the tracks with a
honking big crane, set them down, and fired them up.  Basically, diesel
locos are honking great big generators on wheels... the major problem was
apparently just stepping down the current.

	So basically, if the stuff is at a printer in upstate NY, don't
wait by the mailbox..:\

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 20:40:29 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

Peter Newman wrote:

>> TO:  Faculty of Numerology
>
>It is not strictly true to say that we have any seperate "Faculty of
>Numerology" at the Institute.  Rather it would be correct to say that
>all the scholars study the Fourfold Way since the way of the universe is
>that (for humans) everything that happens in fours is significant.  When
>you can see this you will see all.

Ah, humans, you say!  So Telorans are biological determinists, then?
How... interesting.  We in the Concourse reserve such criteria for our
livestock, in most cases...

>Note that       Number          6 letters
>                15              2 letters
>                Xenopolitical   13 (1+3=4) letters
>                Investigative   13 (1+3=4) letters
>                Task            4 letters
>                Force           5 letters
>                (Sylea)         8 letters (with parenthisis)
>
>                This is a total of 51 letters.  51 reversed is 15.  This
>indicates
>that your Number 15 Task Force is significant in reverse.

Er... hm.  We must look into this.  Thank you for bringing this to our
attention!

>        5 - 1 = 4       Your Task Force clearly has a destiny.
>
>        Note that Redeye has 6 (1 + 5) letters.
>
>Thus you can see mathematically that your mission is significant.

Yes, interesting... always good to know.

>> DT:  011-0002
>
>Note that 011 + 002 = 4.  This is, of course, a significant message.

Well, of course.  I wrote it, didn't I?

>> RE:  Astropolitical Influences of the Number 4
>
>> I am delighted to learn that you, too, have noted the interesting situation
>> that every integer is the sum of no more than four squares.  So far as we
>> have been able to determine, this was first conclusively proven by the
>> Solomani comrade Lagrange.
>
>This truth was in fact first proven by the Darmine mathematician/wise
>woman Kanla dehah Hirala, prior to the unjust occupation and conquering
>of Ishag by the [old fashioned/rigid/boring/sexually repressed] Vilani
>circa -4100.

Is it true, in your knowledge, that the Vilani are responsible for the
so-called hexadecimal notation so widely in use in the Imperium even today?
How does this interface with your understanding of fourness?

>> Interesting, yes?  The very same person who
>> discovered the stable orbital points so useful in building large space
>> habitats and other facilities.  Clearly this is not a coincidence.
>
>There are _no_ coincidences.  We do not use this word, save as a loan
>word to describe others(3) beliefs.

Interesting... I hope you'll share more of Teloran learning with us and
the, um, other colleagues here.

>>  You
>> will note that she made the former proof in the Solomani year 1770,
>
>        1 + 7 + 7 + 0 = 15.  This ties back again with your # 15 Task Force.
>
>> and
>> that the standard Imperial astrography is constructed so as to contain a
>> coordinate marked 1770 in each sector.  We suggest an immediate armed
>> reconnaissance of all such locations.
>
>Are you proposing a joint venture or seperate explorations of each point
>?

Well, closer examination shows that in fact, a Solomani-style sector has
only a 32 x 40 grid, so there isn't a hex #70 in the y-axis.  Suspicious,
don't you agree?  What are they trying to hide?

>The sun and the moons are in the sky.
>The land and the water are on the planet.
>
>The sun and the land are (relatively) unchanging.
>The moons and the water are constantly changing.
>
>The sun and the water bring life.
>The moons (4) and the land bring death.
>
>We have serious questions as to whether or not you Sayat, being
>fundamentally the same and not posessing the male/female dichotemy can
>ever understand duality.  We will be happy to try and enlighten you,
>naturally standard instructional fees will apply.

Hm.  One of our comrades has been seeking tutoring in the male/female
dichotomy already, here at core.  What are your rates like?  She's paying
something like Cr50/hour right now, I seem to recall.  Do your tutors also
include those hot oil massages?

The Sayat aren't accustomed to _moons_ in their sky, of course, which
further complicates matters.  Of course, it should be pointed out while
that both they (the Sayat) as well as "Slimies" such as myself are
monosexual, we do reproduce sexually.  Not with other species, of course!
No, no, no.  But it requires two individuals to produce new spawn.  Or an
infant, in the case of our Sayat comrades, I mean.

>> may neglect to fully account for the ontonumeric properties of _one_.
>
>Of course we understand the importance of one.  One is, after all 4^0.

And what do you make of the threat represented by this little tidbit of
Solomani sector numerology (besides the red herring of 4x4 subsectors): the
maximum number of allowable jump points within a sector are 1280, or 5 *
4^4.  Eh?

>> Consider, for example, the children's game (among us in the Concourse --
>> your people, too?) of taking any number, forming a new number from the sum
>> of the squares of its digits, and iterating.
>
>This is not a childs game among us.  Seeing fours in iteration is an
>adult concept.  To allow children to try it may encourage pedantry in
>the young.  In addition it is not really required as most patterns of
>four can be seen by simple addition.

Hmph.  Well, our children are clearly made of sterner stuff...

>> Furthermore, as Brocard, another late Solomani comrade, pointed out, n!+1
>> is a square when n=4 -- that is, 4!+1=5.  Five, yes?  [CLASSIFIED] Guaran
>> [CLASSIFIED].  Think about it!

(5^2, I meant to say, of course.)

>Your comments on Guaran suggest that you may have forgotten that the
>Fourfold Way of the universe is not for nonhuman.  They have different
>numbers that are of significance to them, this is what alien means after
>all - one whose [fundamental reality/weltanshung] is not fourfold.

So you believe, then, that nonhuman polities are an _additional_ factor in
the astropolitical substructure revealed by the "four-color map problem"?

In abstruseness,

Redeye
#15 XPIE(S)

>are very cold on Ishag.  Even with our peoples enthusiastic levels of
>togetherness and action at night (orgies) the cold at night is one of
>the leading causes of death in non technical populations.

.... am I reading this correctly when I understand that Darmine techs have
_more_ sex than the non-technical ones?

Ladies and gentlemen of the TML... we have acheived true Alien Thought
Simulation.

<bow in respect>


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #14
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Tuesday, January 20 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 015



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: FS: Classic Traveller]
Re: Missiles
Re: 4% city
Re: Missiles
Re: Religion Careers
Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography
Re: Darrians
Re: missiles in space
Re: missiles in space
Re: Thrusters
Re: missiles in space
KKMs and a couple of short FS memos
Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography
Re: missiles in space
Thrusters
missiles in space
Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy
Re: Religious careers

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 20:25:18 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: FS: Classic Traveller]

Tal Meta wrote:
> 
> Subject: FS: Classic Traveller
> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:33:28 -0500
> From: Tal Meta <talmeta@cybercomm.net>
> Organization: Even the Illuminati ask me for advice...
> Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.marketplace
> 
> I have the following classic traveller books/supplements for sale, but I
> am only willing to sell them as a single lot, not piecemeal.
> 
> Traveller Starter Edition (GDW251) (Box VG, contents Mint)
> (several spots of white shelf scuff)
> Traveller Book 8: Robots (NM)
> Traveller Alien Module #1: Aslan (NM)
> Traveller Alien Module #5: Droyne (GD)
> (Sticker mark, cover scuff, creases, some light interior marks)
> Traveller Alien Module #7: Hivers (VG)
> (several lines of green ink on interior front cover, otherwise spotless)
> Traveller Alien Module #8: Darrians (NM)
> Traveller Alien Realms (GDW262) (NM)
> 
> $85 takes the bunch of them, including shipping via USPS.


Lots of stuff I need, but too rich for my blood.  SIGH.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 20:46:43 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Missiles

> In mail you write:
Why would it be like pulling up yourself? You are generating a third 
force, that is unconnected to the generating vessel, using x amount 
of power. You then use y amount of power to use that force to move 
your self. Alternitivaly, you could use the gravity well to fall 
into. If you cause a curvature of spacetime, that curvature should 
have every effect of every other cuverature in existance. I do not 
see where an artificaly generated one would not work like every 
other one in existance. After all, we are _not_ speaking of using 
the ships own well to push off of (but that should also work.. I 
doubt that the natural well would give enough of a push to really do 
anything, tho..)

If by generating that force, you invalidate it for your own use, 
well... I have _never_ seen any thing that would validate that 
arugment.. But then again.. Inertial Dampers are pretty way out there 
:)

I think that, really, none of this has a basis in hard physics. Heck, 
the dean drive is seeming pretty cool.. Or just a bunch of 1 G 
torches..

> > My take on TP's.. they generate a small gravatitaional feild near the 
> > ship, and then use that to push off of.
> 
> Nice try. Ever try lifting yourself by pulling up on your bootstraps?
> :-) 
> 
> -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
> 
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com           http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

186,000 Miles Per Second;
Not only a good idea, it's the law!

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:53:46 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: 4% city

>I originally sent this back on the 10th.  Either it didn't get there or
>didn't get back, soooo...
>
>
>Anyone heard of a ship going 4% city?
>
>If you have, can you tell me what it means?

As someone that spent 3 years on a Aircraft Carrier, my guess would be the
fact that some ships are cities in their own right.  An Aircraft Carrier is
quite literally a floating city with one main purpose.  The same would
undoubtably be true of any sufficiently large Starship.

			Zane


| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/                       |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them.    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html            |

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 23:01:51 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Missiles

Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:51:17 -0800, bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
>The consensus was that any reasonably point defence system - or even
>a single civilian laser turret - can guarantee a hit on such a missile
>well before it impacts

Why can't you just give them a mirror finish?

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 01:28:49 -0600
From: "Pat Connaughton" <pconn@simm.net>
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

<snip>
I hope that this will be of interest. Please give me some feed-back.
Per your request here is the current hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church.
(with side notes)

Top down.

Pontiff - Head of the Church

Patriarch - divided in major and minor status. Several of the minor
patriarchies are now titular or nominally (honorary)

Cardinal - The highest rank in the Church. A military equivelant would be
general and as with generals there are several degrees. These are as
follows. Please also note that in the absence of a pontiff a senior
Cardinal - The Camerlengo or Cardinal- Protector who frequently functions a
the chief of staff for the pontiff acts as temporary head of the church
until a new pontiff is selected.
Cardinal
Cardinal - Bishops
Cardinal - Priests
Cardinal - Deacons

Bishops - These are the princes of the Church and run the organization. They
come in two flavors. These are ranked according to the size and
responsibility and importance of the dioscese involved.
Arch-bishop
Bishop
(Auxiliary Bishop) Sort of breveted bishop. Similar in concept to the
British Army's Brigadier. They are frequently assigned a Titular or nominal
see for official purposes.
There is also a rank called - Vicar - Apostolic which is sort of a temporary
Bishop who
governs over an area or territory in the name of the Pontiff until a formal
diosese can be estabished and a bishop assigned.

Pastor - This is the basic priest. Leader of a parish. The minor orders
leading up to the rank of pastor are:
porter
reader
exorcist and finally
acolyte.


These are the normal direct chain of command for the church. However there
are several ranks and offices which directly impact this chain. These are
Metropolitan - within each provice or dioscee there may be multiple see(s)
"cathedral cities." each which would possess at the minumum an auxiliary
bishop. The senior bishop and his see (or cathedral) would be the
Metropolitan. He may also be an
Arch-bishop though this is relatively rare.

Primate - Head of the Church with in a nation. Usually a cardinal of some
middle to high rank. Can be an Arch-bishop.

Legate -     Senior non-attached officers of the Church. They may be
monsignori, Bishops or Cardinal. Charged with great power and authority -
usually temporarily
these are the fire-men for the church. Direct representatives of the Pontiff
Prothontaries - Apostolic. These are often senior prelates of the church
who assist in the administration of the day to day operations of the church.
The various ranks indicate the hierarchy of these prelates and the value of
the stipends that they recieve.
1. "de numero participantium"
2. "supernumerary"
3. "ad instar"
4. "titular"
Chamberlain - title of distinction grantes to members of the clergy for
service and to provide recognition of service. May also be a member of the
Pontiff's personal household.
Monsignor - Also a title of distinction grantes to members of the clergy for
service and to provide recognition of service. More common than chamberlain.
Chancellor - Title given to priests in administrative service in individual
dioscees as
senior financial and administrative officer.
Dean - Administrative officer within a dioscese may be charged with
operating a college or particular enterprise for the church.
Provost - frequently charged with operation of religious schools.
Canon - the senior priest or prelate charged with the actual operations of a
cathedral

Abbot - Head of a religious order. May or may not have several priory's
involved. Usually granted jurisdiction over entire order. If an order
possesess
multiple abbeys then the senior most abbey's abbot would be the leader.
An alternative title for the head of some monastic orders is Archimandrite.
Prior - head of a smaller religous community perhaps subordinate to an
abbey. May be stand alone.
Father - General - Head a very large religious order with a wide variety of
sites
and activities. Ex. the Jesuit Order and the Benedictines
Friar - Ordinary Member of a religious order who has attained priestly
status.
Friar - Minor - Usually members of mendicant or wandering order. Rarely has
status of a priest. May also be referred to as mendicant brothers.
Monk - Ordinary member of a religious order who has not attained priestly
status.
Lay Brother - Has taken some vows but not irrevocable ones.
Hermit - a religious who has chosen to sequester him or herself from
population. Usually in very isolated areas.

Abbess, Prioress, Mother Superior as above for female orders.

This is only a summary and a fairly abridged one. Please let me know what
you all think.

Thanks
Pat

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:33:07 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography

>IIRC, there were individual maps in several issues with scenarios, but the
>one with plans for each type of starport based around "parkbays" was:
>"Happy Landings - Starports in Traveller" by Thomas M Price, in WD 43. I
>liked that a lot and have used it on and off ever since, although I'm not
>sure all those 5 km runways are necessary.
>
>Andy

I've used the article as basis for my own starport designs and therefore I
had to come up with a reason for those HUGE runways (or any runways for
that matter).
The Subsidized merchant (the winged one from Traders & Gunboats) I decided
to be a pretty common ship and then I started designing it. I gave it
contragrav that would lift the ship if it was 20% loaded or less. Then I
gave it a fusion thruster with airscoops to keep the fuel consumtion (and
heat of exhaust) down while moving inside an atmosphere. Ths ship can take
off and land as other gravvehicles when not loaded but with a full load it
needs a runway to land/takeoff. As these and similar ships are quite common
in the Traveller universe most starports have runways esp. since the worls
having the starport generally is the subsider of the ship and could
therefore force the starport builder to include runways.
The ship actually got quite a lot cheaper as (in my design system)
contragrav and gravthrusters are the main powergobblers and by reducing the
powerneed a smaller powerplant could be used.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:42:30 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Darrians

>I don't think they triggered a nova. Just some major solar flares. I could
>be wrong as I'm also doing this from memory. It seems to me that their
>central star couldn't continue to exist after going nova, though, right?
>
>Best,
>
>Chris Griffen


It was a flare but a mighty big one as the Darrian sourcebook gave it a
spherical EMP (whatever) shockwave that killed all electronics/gravitics(!)
for several parsecs around the star. Darrian sourcebook also contradicts
most of the Darrian writeup (by John M Ford?) in an early JTAS.

I especially disliked the Trekky cover of the sourcebook, pointed ears and all.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:50:11 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: missiles in space

>True if it requires thrust all the way to the target to hit. But if
>your anti-missile system turns the 10-20cm cross section missile
>into a cloud of debris a few 10s or more meters across, it becomes
>more of a hazard to the target. I think I'd have my missiles blow up
>if any one of a number of critical systems is killed in order to
>maximize this...
>
>-Merrick

Most privately owned missiles in my Universe explode prior to contact to
maximize hit propability and even more importantly, to scrub of all sensor
antenna facing the missile.
No civilian ships are allowed to own neutrino sensors and massdetectors
except for research purposes and then only after getting a license. Most
military ship rely on neutrino sensors as they can be put under the armour.
My massdetectors has to be outside the armour for handwaving reasons.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:06:51 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: missiles in space

>Overall, if you do the numbers, KKM's don't fit "classic" traveller very well;
>they do overwhelming amounts of damage but hit very rarely. The det-lasers
>(aside from their association with nukes) actually resemble the "classic"
>traveller missile (moderate amount of damage, moderately hard to shoot down)
>much better.
>
>Bruce

You have a point there. My spacecombat system uses 1000 km squares with
typical ranges at say 10 000 km and sensors that detects at 50 000 km or
less when dealing with normal traders and stuff. A typical missile (50 kg
as per canon) hits with say 3 squares per gameturn (5 min) and this
produced just the right amount of penetration and damage for personal
ships. When your detection figures came up I tried to change the scales
which worked nicely (change laser wavelenghts to soft x-ray) and allow
smaller fusion engines for the missiles but the missiles were now
shipkillers.

One note about KK penetration though: When impact velocity goes beyond
about 5000 m/s penetration start behaving like a HE blast ie pen prop to
the cuberoot of kinetic energy instead of being proportional to it. In my
combat system this made matters worse actually because the high pen of
missiles resulted in most of the energy going through the target (if the
target was small).


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:10:26 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Thrusters

>>Some of us thought it might be an "exotic particle" drive - that is, some
>>generated particle is used as the reaction mass. Of course this has the
>>problem that most such particles wouldn't be able to generate the thrust
>>necessary, since their mass is so small.
>
>Had you considered a graviton?


Neutrinos work fine for that and if you simply could change matter into
neutrinos you'd also have a very nice cooling device.
To quote Greg Bears Heads: "Fuck thermodynamics".


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:12:42 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: missiles in space

>If I was Emperor, I would decree, "All missiles must have a self destruct
>mechanism which is triggered within an hour of drive failure."

No way - then I have to scratch my "loose homing missile" random encounter
on my ship encounter tables for systems who saw action during 5:th frontier
war.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:32:13
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: KKMs and a couple of short FS memos

At 11:47 PM 19/01/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Traveller-digest >Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:48:07 -0600
>From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>
>Subject: Famille Spofulam Armaments Thinks Small!
>
>	For a while, following Hydro-Quebec's restoring power to my
>domicile several days before Bell got me hooked back up to the world again,
>I was stuck with a computer but no net access, and school was closed...  so
>I started designing things.
>
>	Lately, I've been kinda bored with the Famille Spofulam great big
>huge monstrously big excessive gobs of dementedly fast or lethal overkill
>on steroids and bad acid design philosophy.  And frankly, Mach-3 capable
>HEPlaR-powered RollerBlades would be just plain cheesy.  So, I tried
>designing small things.  I think that the following combine a "small is
>better" attitude with overkill on steroids and bad acid.
>
>	In the process, I discovered that at TL-12, you can do some
>atrocious things with small-bore explosive rounds and advanced materials
>>:)...

Uncie Hengieeeee,

Did youuuu seeee our our our Barbie's Own Purse Sized Particle Accelerator
Pistol ???

Diiitttziiieeee

>From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
>Subject: Re: missiles in space
>
>At 05:18 PM 1/19/98 -0800, Bruce Alan Macintosh wrote:
>>
>>A few more notes:
>>
>
>Bruce,
>Some nits to pick 
>
>1. Bubba carries not only KKM BB's but nukes also. 
>2. The typical PD will not smudge Bubba's paint job, let alone damage Bubba. 

If people start uparmouring missiles, then PD weapons will get heavier.
It's an evolutionary thing. Uparmoured missiles are also either slower or
bigger and more expensive, and thus more vulnerable to missiles in a
counter-missile role.

>3. Bubba is not disposable, it is reusable submunitons carrier. 
>4. Bubba's evasion was very high but not as high as Little Bubba.

I cant remember. How many gees could it pull ?

>5. Bubba also can release the submunitons at outside the PD lasers eff range.

A TL12 laser with a 1m focal array has an effective range of 25 000 km. 2m
focal array takes this up to 100 000 km. 

>6. Does not matter how many *cheaper* PD's you have if they are not
>*effective* against the incoming targets, learn to breath vacuum.<G>

Very true ...

>7. KKM's can do a *soft kill* against a target, damaging or destroying Heat
>Radiators, Sensor and Communications arrays, and damaging any PD's that are
>firing which then exposes them to possible damage.

Hmmm, you are talking surface damage there ... but I still think either
your point defense will stop the warhead or it wont. And if the KKM hits, I
think that the effect will be greater than sandpapering the ship's skin.

>8. Missiles can use a similar tactic that some current AT missiles use like
>"Bill" and I think "Tank Breaker" pass nearby(overhead) and fire a warhead
>into the target(top).

You will need to kill all the vector your bus had built up though ...

>
>My *favorite* is well blended mix of missiles, Det Nukes, KKM's and Area
>Detonation Nukes.
>That makes it harder for one type of PD laser to be effective against all
>incoming missiles and submunitions.

Point defense is a job for a combination of nuclear dampers, sand, missiles
and PD lasers. There may even be a role for a point defense Meson Gun ...
and I'm not too proud to use a spinal mount against a missile that is a big
enough threat.

I also believe that point defense lasers should be 250 MJ. Anti-ship lasers
should be maxed out ie TL*50 MJ. Overcome your peak power output limit by a
nice big battery.

>
>>-the range at which a laser can't miss a missile-sized target is about
>>5000 km for a 100-G missile; it scales weakly with size and acceleration,
>>so it's about 20000 km for a big 10-G missile. A 150 mJ ROF-100 
>>laser will get quite a few shots in...
>
>????How fast can the above PD acquire, track and FCS to hit such a incoming
>missile?

With a TL12 computer, fairly well I think.

>
>If the incoming missile is traveling at 100 G's for half an hour, its
>*range rate* will be such that at the PD extreme range will have
>microfractions of a second before the missile is out of the FCS envelope.
>Multiplying this by several missiles, your PD will not have time to react,
>track, and FCS all of the incoming missiles before they are on target.

30 minutes at acceleration of 100 Gees is 1 km/s * 60 * 30 = 1800 km/s.
Fast, but the missile will be in "the zone" for long enough, I think.

>
>Your example seems to indicate a *best* case for the PD, ie you know it is
>coming and is just waiting for it to get into firing range.

Military sensors at TL12 are good enough to show most anything up at quite
long range. Even 1cm^3 ball bearings.

Personally, I dont think that it is worthwhile to try and hide in deep
space through masking and stuff, so I'd just have the LIDAR or AEMS turned
on all the time on a warship.

>
>Define big? the RCS for Bubba is a lot smaller than it's displacement will
>indicate. That is using an old striker loop hole. As I was told "An
>undocumented feature".<G>

Nuhh. No way, no how. Things in space have an effective cross-section
according to their displacement. Unless you want to recalculate all
cross-sections according to maneuver, all the time, or let ships maneuver
in any direction.

And if we do that, we have the "nose towards enemy and armoured to 30m
thickness" problem.

>
>Off the top of my head the armor that Bubba has is equal over 1,000 in
>FFS2. I don't think your 150Mj Laser ROF 100 will not have much effect.

I'd be real intersted seeing how you get a combination of 50cm of
superdense and high gees ...

>
>>(And, of course,one good counter to impact KKMs is impact counter-KKMs.)
>
>Yes I agree, but you can also use area det nukes too.

Gotta have a multi-dimensional defense ... give em a multitude of looks :)

Sam, could you please repost the Bubba and Little Bubba ?



>From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>
>Subject: Re: Missile Design Question
>
>Wildstar wrote:
>
>>
>>Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <schoon@aimnet.com> asked:
>>>I'm winding up with Controlled missiles that have essentially Unlimited
>>>endurance [...] It's just that the Fusion+ plant that powers the T Plates
>>>uses so little fuel.  Is this right ?
>>
>>There should be a minimum size for T-plates that makes their use on missiles
>>this small prohibitive.  Please check the text, because a lot of these items
>>are located in the text because they don't fit (or make sense) on the
tables.
>[snip]
>
>	But that would invalidate the Pogo Stick!  Whiiiiiine!


Uncie Hengieeeee,

The pogo-wogo sticky-wicky uses contra-graviteeeeeeeee.

Your loving cosein,

Ditzeeeeee

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 01:31:36 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography

> "Happy Landings - Starports in Traveller" by Thomas M Price, in WD 43. I
> >liked that a lot and have used it on and off ever since, although I'm not
> >sure all those 5 km runways are necessary.
> >
> >Andy
> 
> I've used the article as basis for my own starport designs and therefore I
> had to come up with a reason for those HUGE runways (or any runways for
> that matter).
> The Subsidized merchant (the winged one from Traders & Gunboats) I decided

So does anyone have a copy they can scan and send me?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:01:06 +0000
From: "Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" <trrkt@friko.onet.pl>
Subject: Re: missiles in space

On 19 Jan 98, Sam Thomas disseminated foul capitalist propaganda by 
writing:

<snip>
> In traveller the KKM may not penetrate the ships armor but the
> sensor and communication arrays are scrubbed off, rendering the ship
> blind, deaf, and mute. Such a ship will be able to effectively
> engage any target. After s good KKM *scrubbing* it's PD's will be
> blind to any more incoming
> *goodies*. Wave attacks for missiles are a good thing.<G>

Hmmmm... A nice idea. And for the "blinding/crippling" missile, one 
could use LOTS of, say, superdense 0.01 g balls.

This way, one could get a really big cloud, more like a sandcaster 
on a missile... 
;P


Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@friko.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike; 
Amber fan and Star Wars junkie; UIN 6947998; WTF TKD; FIAWOL; YMMV; IMAO; SNAFU
  Geek Code v3.1 GL/O d- s+: a19 C+++ W-(++) N+++ K? w(---) O@ M- PS+(+++) PE Y+ 
  PGP- !t--- 5+(-) X- R*+++>$ tv-- b++++ D+ G-- e h--*! !r-- !y()-*
    Rugby players get a big kick out of it. 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:15:27 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Thrusters

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/20/98 10:15 AM

<<Anyone have any ideas on this? My group wants a decent explanation for the
thruster unit (doesn't have to be perfect) that fits classic Traveller (our
campaign setting) - thus HEPlaR is out.>>

There's a great line at the start of Harry Harrison's "Tehcnicolour Time
Machine"...
"How does it work, Professor?"
"You're too dumb. You wouldn't understand."

The way I handled this (and similar questions about jump drive) in my old
CT campaign was to tell players that you need Int and Edu 15 to understand
how it works; most spacers just know what it does. (After all, what % of
modern day troubelshooters/mercs understand jet engines beyond the
"suck/squeeze/bang/blow" level?) When after a lot of trying one PC had Int
and Edu 15, I told the group that he understood how it worked, but they
couldn't understand what he was saying when he tried to explain... <G>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:21:49 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: missiles in space

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/20/98 10:21 AM

<<
In fact, I would tend to believe that a spiral course would be a standard,
it would allow the guidence sensors a much better look at the target, as
well as keeping the missile moving
relative to the target.
>>

IIRC from my training in feedback control theory, lo these many years ago,
that's the easiest/cheapest way to build a seeker head anyway - it spirals
in on the perfect intercept course. Also I think I saw IR SAMs doing this
on the newscasts from Afghanistan...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:34:11 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/20/98 10:34 AM

<<
Is it true, in your knowledge, that the Vilani are responsible for the
so-called hexadecimal notation so widely in use in the Imperium even today?
How does this interface with your understanding of fourness?
>>

16 = 4 x 4, so clearly it is a sacred number, although not as sacred as 256
because
256 = 4 x 4 x 4 x 4 and also 2 + 5 + 6 = 13, 1+3 = 4.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:39:42 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Religious careers

Leonard Erickson writes:

>>hypothetical religious order/career, would be:
>>
>>Acolyte/Alter-boy
>>Seminarian?
>>Deacon
>>Priest - minimum one per church.
>>Bishop - one per system
>>Archbishop - one per subsector
>>Cardinal - like Dukes - one per sector
>>Pope - Whole church
>
>Monsignors (and Metropolitans, and a few other such things) are "ranks"
>above priest and below bishop.
> 
>Also, bishops are one per *diocese*, and the size of those is roughly
>set by population. Basicly one per large city or smaller city and
>surrounding areas. One reason for this is that it takes a bishop to
>ordain a priest.
> 
>Archbishops have arch-dioceses. I'm not so sure about the exact details
>of how they differe from bishops.
>
>[...]
> 
>I rather suspect that low pop worlds will not get much past Bishop.
>They'd be responsible to a subsector or sector Patriarch. Higher pop
>worlds will go clear to Patriarch. And the Patriarchs will be under the
>Pope. 
> 
>I'm not sure where to fit in the Cardinals. But the reason for placing
>Patriarchs where I do is that they, and not cardinals are empowered to
>make rulings on *doctrine*. The Pope can overrule them, but until he
>does, it stands. 
> 
>I expect that given the area to be covered, the Church would have
>cardinals below patriarchs, with the cardinals electing patriarchs, and
>the patriarchs electing a Pope (when one is needed).

I think you're in danger of making the same mistake that was originally
made with military and noble ranks (IMO, of course). An organisation of
a given size requires a given number of ranks. There's some flexibility
in this, of course, and the number of ranks required differs according
to the purpose and organisation of the organisation (an ugly sentence,
I can't think of any synonyms). Anyway, when you want to 'translate' an
organisation that you know from Earth into interstellar equivalents, you
can't just take the same table of ranks and, say, multiply their area
of responsibility by some order of magnitude. If it takes 10 officer
ranks to manage a national fleet on Earth today, you may, by stretching
things a bit here and there, manage to get away with 10 ranks for a
planetary navy. But you cannot, IMO, get away with 10 ranks for an
whole multi-sector navy. (Let me elaborate a bit on this. You might get
away with using only the same number of ranks, but then some of the
ranks would be subdivided. Take for instance some Napoleonic era navies
where there were only one rank for a ship's captain. They had a number
of different pay scales depending on the size of the ship, and a captain
with such and such a seniority could expect to be assigned to a ship of
appropiate size (and pay). The French had several different captains
(Captain-of-Sloop, Captain-of-Frigate, etc.).

Anyway, to get back to the matter at hand. As an organisation expands off
Earth I think you can expect some changes in the ranks. For military
organisations I'd expect additions on top (Fleet Admiral, Force Admiral
(subsectors), Grand Admiral (sectors), etc.). For the Catholic Church I
expect they'd have to keep the Pope as the top rank, so they'd split up
existing ranks or introduce new ones.

How about Primate for the Head of Church on a planet big enough to have
more than one Arch-bishop?

Here's a suggestion:

Bishop		    Diocese; Worlds with less than 100,000 people is a
		    single diocese.
Arch-bishop	    Arch-diocese (2-10 dioceses (may be a number of small
		    worlds). Worlds with less than 1 million people is a
		    single arch-diocese.
Primate		    World of more than 1 million people. Also courtsy title
		    for bishops and arch-bishops who are head of church on
		    smaller worlds.
Sub-sector primate
Sector primate
Pope

Or you could take an alternate spelling of primate (Primas) and make that
a separate rank.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #15
*********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Tuesday, January 20 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 016



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Thrusters
Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography
Re: Thrusters
Re: Darrians
Re: Major and Minor Human Races
Re: Major and Minor Human Races
Re: Major and Minor Human Races
Re: Thrusters
Re: Darrians
Re: KKMs and a couple of short FS memos
Re: Militias, Missiles, Nukes and Interstellar Economics
Re: Thrusters
An embarrassing question...I should know this...
Re: missiles in space
Re: Major and Minor Human Races
Re: KKMs and a couple of short FS memos
World "Skills"
Re: missiles in space
Re: Religion Careers
Re: An embarrassing question...I should know this...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 02:34:28 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Thrusters

> The way I handled this (and similar questions about jump drive) in my old
> CT campaign was to tell players that you need Int and Edu 15 to understand
> how it works; most spacers just know what it does. (After all, what % of
> modern day troubelshooters/mercs understand jet engines beyond the
> "suck/squeeze/bang/blow" level?) When after a lot of trying one PC had Int
> and Edu 15, I told the group that he understood how it worked, but they
> couldn't understand what he was saying when he tried to explain... <G>

You sir, are an EVIL man.  :)  Next time look up some particularly
esoteric technobabble and spew it at them.
A house full of BLANK looks is pretty funny as well.  :)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:56:33 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography

At 01:31 1998-01-20 -0800, J-man wrote:
>>"Happy Landings - Starports in Traveller" by Thomas M Price, in WD 43. I
>>liked that a lot and have used it on and off ever since, although I'm not
>>sure all those 5 km runways are necessary.
>
>So does anyone have a copy they can scan and send me?
>

I am also interested in this.


Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm  (Linköping, Sweden)
E-mail: jenry023@student.liu.se
UIN: 3844745   Get ICQ at http://www.mirabilis.com
Homepage: http://spacejens.ml.org
- ---------------------------------------------
"And I froze there, crouching in the small of plastique from the bolts,
because that was when the Fear found me, really found me, for the first time"

Hinterlands, William Gibson
- ---------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:19:49 -0800
From: crystal <crystal@postme.net>
Subject: Re: Thrusters

I wrote:
>Suppose, you lose thrust and find yourself too far from any planetary
>body to be in orbit. Would just you just hang there in-system?

Richard A. Flores wrote:
>Don't forget the stellar diameters.
>No, the thrust just drops to c. 1% of the amount within the 2,000 AU >limit.

C what? Speed of light or circa? :) How did you get the 2000 AU? Wun
this be different for other star systems?

I meant: what if I was travelling at any speed, and cancel out my
vectors...would I drift towards a body or come into some
orbit/collision? 

"Tsykoduk" wrote:
> The TP generates a small gravity well, which it then pushs off of (or 
> falls into, based upon your take on it). It can swing that well about 
> (allowing for you to manuver with out changing facing to much).

Couldn't the well be a temporary phenomenea? Sort of like recurring
every second...I know it sounds dumb, but carrying a magnet around with
you means you have to walk back to pick it up - again and again. OTOH,
if such a gravity well makes you the equ. of a small planetoid or star,
would you be travelling at high speeds?

What is this gravity well? What if I decide to move Pluto near Mercury?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:14:21 -0100 (GMT)
From: Urtzi <lcajaleu@xa.lc.ehu.es>
Subject: Re: Darrians

> 
> I don't think they triggered a nova. Just some major solar flares. I could
> be wrong as I'm also doing this from memory. It seems to me that their
> central star couldn't continue to exist after going nova, though, right?
> 
> Best,
> 
> Chris Griffen 

 As far as I know, it would continue to exist; a star could go nova more 
than once, it's not a destructive process (opposite to supernova). 
Anyway, I suppose that the planets orbiting that star would be devastated 
(if not physically destroyed) by such a phenomenon, so I prefer the 
"major solar flares" explanation (and the Darrians too, I think ;-)).

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:47:24 +0100
From: "V.A.G" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Major and Minor Human Races

CardSharks wrote:

> Minor   Sylean (inhabits the territory around Core).
>         Azhanti
>         Fiorin
>         Geonee (their culture emphasized technology).
>         Acheron
>         Suerrat
>         Illurian
>         Luriani
Any ideas where some of these races like the Azhanti, Acheron, Lurani
originated? 
Aren´ t the Darrians also a minor human race?

> Narc Miller
Twin Bother of Traveller Guru Marc Miller?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:50:57 +0100
From: "V.A.G" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Major and Minor Human Races

Kenji Schwarz wrote:

> Floriani     ? Trojan Reaches        Traveller Digest ? [as someone else
>        suggested recently, perhaps these are the "Fiorin" mentioned above? It.
>        "fiori" ~ Lat. "florae"]
It is one of the last TZD´ß s, issue 20 i think. And the name of Fiorin
doesn´t appear there so i´ d assume that this is an entirely different
human minor race!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 08:23:55 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Major and Minor Human Races

In a message dated 98-01-19 17:24:42 EST, you write:

<< Narc Miller
  >>

A slip of the keyboard.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 08:24:09 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Thrusters

In a message dated 98-01-19 17:28:15 EST, you write:

<< Why does it have to be reactionless? The classic maneuver drive was never
 well defined until SOM - it was just "the drive that moves the ship that
 doesn't take fuel".
 
  >>

Attached snip from the introduction to T4.1

FOUNDED ON BOTH HARD AND SOFT SCIENCE
Traveller is founded on the sciences: technological science and social
science. Each adds realism to the system’s universe while enhancing its
adventure potential.

Technological Science Provides A Foundation
The technological basis for Traveller provides a common ground from which all
extrapolations and story ideas can spring.
The Jump Drive. The secret of interstellar travel is the jump drive. While in
normal space, travel is limited to the speed of light (and it takes years to
go from one star to another), jump drive leaps around space: a jump covers one
parsec (3.26 light years; the average distance between stars) in about a week.
Improved ships can reach speeds of more than 1,000 times the speed of light.

Jump Drive is a foundational concept that makes interstellar travel easy to
accomplish and easy to understand. Behind the mumbo-jumbo is a basic idea that
can be conveyed visually or through simple conversations between crewmembers.

Communication Limited To The Speed Of Transportation. But the universe is so
vast that even the mega-speeds of jump drive can’t work miracles. No one has
yet (or ever) invented a hyper communicator that will send messages faster
than light -speed. Communication is limited to the speed of transportation; a
message to the edge of the empire needs to be carried there. For an empire 300
parsecs to the border that message takes more than a year to deliver, even
under the best of circumstances. News of war, conflict, invasion, disaster, or
even peace takes just as long to get back to the center of government.
Consequently folks governing "out there" have a lot of independence. A war can
be over before the news of it reaches the Capital--and orders return--so,
Dukes and Archdukes have to act on their own. Commanders of ships (exploring
or warring) have a lot of independence as well. The characters have to think
on their own--if they work for a merchant company, opening new markets, they
can't "phone home" every time negotiations break down--and on the other hand,
the company needs to accept all sorts of wacky contracts and situations!

Restricted communication speeds mean that characters at great distance from
their bosses are free to act as they wish. Characters without the restrictions
of bosses are also thrown on their own initiative.

A Spectrum of Available Technology. Technology is not evenly distributed
throughout the universe; instead, world and cultures can be classified by
their achieved technology level. 
The technology available includes alternatives to traditional or normally
expected technology, but radical deviations from "normal" technology are rare
and unusual encounters.

Allowing for different levels of technology permits players many different
alternatives in how they approach situations.

Gravity Manipulation. The advance of technology has resulted in practical
methods of gravity manipulation. Gravity manipulation expresses itself in
three ways: as artificial gravity, as inertial dampers, and as lifters.
Artificial gravity is built into the deck plates of starships, rendering a
natural environment most like that of a planet surface. Inertial dampers
eliminate the extremes of inertia which can pull and push people and equipment
as it maneuvers. Although such dampers are imperfect, they do allow a normal
environment on starships as they maneuver, and they allow extreme physical
maneuvers on small craft as they perform high-G maneuvers. Lifters are the
final aspect of gravity manipulation: they negate gravity and make it possible
for ships (and other vehicles) to move more easily within a gravitational
field. Lifters operate effectively only near large masses. They are
ineffective (and aren’t really needed anyway) in deep space.

Grav Plates, Inertial Compensators, and Lifters are included because they make
it easier for players to conceptualize the actions of their characters, and
because dramatic renderings of actions are realistic if they simply show
people standing up.

Thrusters. Thrusters move vehicles forward without the necessity of reaction
mass (as required for rockets). Thrusters work like rockets, but without the
requirements for large amounts of rocket fuel.

Thrusters make easy movement between worlds possible. The detail to which
players want to go in using thrusters is up to them. Detail without purpose is
avoided.

Fusion Power. Cheap fusion power means that the inhabitants of this universe
are not tied to gas stations or complex fuel systems. Hydrogen taken from
water, ice, even the methane of gas giants like Jupiter is all that is
required to produce abundant electricity. Once a culture rises to the minimum
required tech level, its cities depend on electricity produced by efficient,
pollution free fusion power. Starships draw their fuel from the worlds they
visit.

Cheap fusion power simplifies adventuring by eliminating the need for routine
refuelling on world surfaces. At the same time, the concept allows fueling
requirements to be inserted where they add to the adventure situation.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:36:22 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: Darrians

On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, Kenji Schwarz wrote:

> Bad language alert!

Sorry for that, but it is not easy to write, find the right words, and
type them correctly when you stayed a night without sleep. And this
between lectures. I only tried to retype what I read in the TNE Book.
(if the words 'elfin appearance' bothered you - that's out of this one!)

Aside from that, I like word plays ...

L.A.

Were it the Darrian's famous last words: "The Moon Shines Too Bright ..."?
(German Title of "Inconstant Moon", The Outer Limits)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 07:39:16 -0600
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Re: KKMs and a couple of short FS memos

At 06:32 PM 1/20/98, Ian or Katts wrote:
>snip<
>>Bruce,
>>Some nits to pick 
>>
>>1. Bubba carries not only KKM BB's but nukes also. 
>>2. The typical PD will not smudge Bubba's paint job, let alone damage
Bubba. 
>
>If people start uparmouring missiles, then PD weapons will get heavier.
>It's an evolutionary thing. Uparmoured missiles are also either slower or
>bigger and more expensive, and thus more vulnerable to missiles in a
>counter-missile role.

Yes but after a bit of up powering PD weapons to pen the armored missile,
they become more of a major weapons system in power and cost. 

>>3. Bubba is not disposable, it is reusable submunitons carrier. 
>>4. Bubba's evasion was very high but not as high as Little Bubba.
>
>I cant remember. How many gees could it pull ?

If I remember right Bubba pulled 12 G's and Little Bubba pulled 30G's

>>5. Bubba also can release the submunitons at outside the PD lasers eff
range.
>
>A TL12 laser with a 1m focal array has an effective range of 25 000 km. 2m
>focal array takes this up to 100 000 km. 

Is this using the optional *grav* focussed array?

It still can but the chance of hitting is reduced, unless the *range rate*
is fast enough.

>>snip<<
>>7. KKM's can do a *soft kill* against a target, damaging or destroying Heat
>>Radiators, Sensor and Communications arrays, and damaging any PD's that are
>>firing which then exposes them to possible damage.
>
>Hmmm, you are talking surface damage there ... but I still think either
>your point defense will stop the warhead or it wont. And if the KKM hits, I
>think that the effect will be greater than sandpapering the ship's skin.

I also believe that KKM if they hit will do more than sandpaper the hull.

>>8. Missiles can use a similar tactic that some current AT missiles use like
>>"Bill" and I think "Tank Breaker" pass nearby(overhead) and fire a warhead
>>into the target(top).
>
>You will need to kill all the vector your bus had built up though ...

No you would not, neither of the AT missiles have to dump the vector.

>>
>>My *favorite* is well blended mix of missiles, Det Nukes, KKM's and Area
>>Detonation Nukes.
>>That makes it harder for one type of PD laser to be effective against all
>>incoming missiles and submunitions.
>
>Point defense is a job for a combination of nuclear dampers, sand, missiles
>and PD lasers. There may even be a role for a point defense Meson Gun ...
>and I'm not too proud to use a spinal mount against a missile that is a big
>enough threat.

If you mix are det nukes in with the *crowd* of KKM stuff which ones does
the nuc damp focus on?

Hmm PD meson and PD particle accel weapons.....

Slewing that spinal mount around to bear each and every incoming KKM
missile...ouch.

>I also believe that point defense lasers should be 250 MJ. Anti-ship lasers
>should be maxed out ie TL*50 MJ. Overcome your peak power output limit by a
>nice big battery.

I though the TL*50 involved the ability of the focal array to handle the
power load not the power generation? At least I think that was the hand wave?

>>>-the range at which a laser can't miss a missile-sized target is about
>>>5000 km for a 100-G missile; it scales weakly with size and acceleration,
>>>so it's about 20000 km for a big 10-G missile. A 150 mJ ROF-100 
>>>laser will get quite a few shots in...
>>
>>snip<<
>
>With a TL12 computer, fairly well I think.

It is not just the computer the PD has to acquire, track, FCS, and engage,
then repeat also having to bring the PD' laser array into firing position,
and the ship bring the PD to bear on targets outside the firing arc of the PD.

>>If the incoming missile is traveling at 100 G's for half an hour, its
>>*range rate* will be such that at the PD extreme range will have
>>microfractions of a second before the missile is out of the FCS envelope.
>>Multiplying this by several missiles, your PD will not have time to react,
>>track, and FCS all of the incoming missiles before they are on target.
>
>30 minutes at acceleration of 100 Gees is 1 km/s * 60 * 30 = 1800 km/s.
>Fast, but the missile will be in "the zone" for long enough, I think.

Almost correct, recalc the missiles final built up *velocity* *speed* after
accel for 30 minutes at 100 G's. It will be a lot faster than you have above.

I get 3,599 km/s final *velocity* *speed* *range rate*. If it quits accel
and then travels for another minute the distance it would travel is
215,940km, well outside the minimum detection range.

>>Your example seems to indicate a *best* case for the PD, ie you know it is
>>coming and is just waiting for it to get into firing range.
>
>Military sensors at TL12 are good enough to show most anything up at quite
>long range. Even 1cm^3 ball bearings.

But what if the Ball Bearing are Mil Blacked?

>Personally, I dont think that it is worthwhile to try and hide in deep
>space through masking and stuff, so I'd just have the LIDAR or AEMS turned
>on all the time on a warship.

Never give your enemy and easy time tracking you by being active all the
time. I can just keep shooting at you with ARM type missiles and never give
my location to you active ship.

>>Define big? the RCS for Bubba is a lot smaller than it's displacement will
>>indicate. That is using an old striker loop hole. As I was told "An
>>undocumented feature".<G>
>
>Nuhh. No way, no how. Things in space have an effective cross-section
>according to their displacement. Unless you want to recalculate all
>cross-sections according to maneuver, all the time, or let ships maneuver
>in any direction.

The shape of the object will have an effect on its RCS or now the
SCS(sensor cross section)
If 100 dt box type object is traveling at you it will have a SCS of 10, a
100 dt needle coming at you, point at you, will have a SCS or less than the
box yes?

>And if we do that, we have the "nose towards enemy and armoured to 30m
>thickness" problem.

Bubba does not have 30m of armor, it is in the cm range and sloped.

>>Off the top of my head the armor that Bubba has is equal over 1,000 in
>>FFS2. I don't think your 150Mj Laser ROF 100 will not have much effect.
>
>I'd be real intersted seeing how you get a combination of 50cm of
>superdense and high gees ...

Bubba does not use superdense armor it uses electromorhopic synthetics(sp).
Getting the G's is not the problem, it is power required.

>snip<
>Sam, could you please repost the Bubba and Little Bubba ?

Yes I will but I will have to design them again using my spreadsheet, I
have upgraded my computer, hard clean up and reformat you know. ;-(
- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 06:53:17 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Militias, Missiles, Nukes and Interstellar Economics

On Sun, 18 Jan 1998, Leonard Erickson wrote:
 
> There are still sailing ships cruising the oceans. And some *aren't*
> merely personal "toys". Some actually manage a marginal existence in
> out of the way places. And they do visit the regular ports from time to
> time. The Imperium may have similar "obsolete" tramp freighters.
> 

There is still a significant amount of trade carried out in the Indian
Ocean on dhows, small <murphl>-rigged (big triangular sail) single mast
sailing ships. Many have been motorized, but still rely on sail a lot,
depending on how reliable the engine is. They are still built the same way
they were in the 1200's.

Michael Palin crossed from Africa to India on one in "Around the world in
80 days"

Also don't forget outfits like "Barefoot Cruises" They and a number of
operators like them run three masters around the Caribbean, carrying
tourists around in 18th century style. (with modern wet bars, galleys and
facilities, of course)

I agree with Leonard, there will always be a scattering of truly ancient
designs floating about. 

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 08:21:31 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thrusters

crystal <crystal@postme.net> wrote:


>I wrote:
>>Suppose, you lose thrust and find yourself too far from any planetary
>>body to be in orbit. Would just you just hang there in-system?
>
>Richard A. Flores wrote:
>>Don't forget the stellar diameters.
>>No, the thrust just drops to c. 1% of the amount within the 2,000 AU
>limit.
>
>C what? Speed of light or circa? :) ...

"c." is the standard abr. for circa or aproximately.

>... How did you get the 2000 AU?...

It's in the rule book, ""

>... Wun this be different for other star systems?

Not according to the rule book, ""

>I meant: what if I was travelling at any speed, and cancel out my
>vectors...would I drift towards a body or come into some
>orbit/collision?

Inertial compensation is a different system.  T-plates are not inertialess
drives, only "reactionless" which is a misnomer.  There is a reaction, it's
just not caused by spewing exhaust out the back end.  Cancelling vectors
requires some work and won't happen by accident.  You don't just turn off
the T-plates and resume your original vectors.  Each change you've made will
be cumulative, even after T-plate shut down.

>"Tsykoduk" wrote:
>> The TP generates a small gravity well, which it then pushs off of (or
>> falls into, based upon your take on it). It can swing that well about
>> (allowing for you to manuver with out changing facing to much).
>
>Couldn't the well be a temporary phenomenea? Sort of like recurring
>every second...I know it sounds dumb, but carrying a magnet around with
>you means you have to walk back to pick it up - again and again. OTOH,
>if such a gravity well makes you the equ. of a small planetoid or star,
>would you be travelling at high speeds?
>
>What is this gravity well? What if I decide to move Pluto near Mercury?

It is possible.  But to move a planet requires a much larger gravity well,
and you'd better be a zillionaire if you want to fund it yourself.

First find the mass of Pluto, then build a T-plate large enough to move the
planet, then build an observatory to make sure you're going where you want
to go, then build housing for the staff required to administer what you
have, then build a power plant to power the T-plates, sensors and housing
(don't forget the engineers for the T-plates when you build your housing),
then move Pluto where ever you want.  :-)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 08:53:46 -0600
From: "Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: An embarrassing question...I should know this...

Ack, its been too long since I had physics. This is a damn *high school*
level question, but I'm drawing a complete blank. Ack ack ack.

What would the final velocity of a craft be if it accelerated at .4G for 32
hours?

Could someone refresh the memory of this moron on the formula for this
stuff...I'm working on a low tech colony ship using FF&S primitive drives,
and I want to see what kind of performance is needed - ie, can it be done.

Thanks.

*sigh* I can't believe I've forgotten how to do this. *THWAP* *THWAP*
*THWAP* (sound of head hitting desk).

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 08:40:33 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: missiles in space

 
> No civilian ships are allowed to own neutrino sensors and massdetectors
> except for research purposes and then only after getting a license. Most
> military ship rely on neutrino sensors as they can be put under the armour.
> My massdetectors has to be outside the armour for handwaving reasons.

I think neutrino detectors would be lucky to know there is a close
star. I guess if you have an array of them you can get a
direction...

I never like d the idea of neutrino homing missiles since it opens a
can of worms. Not the least of which is that if you can interact
with neutrinos to detect them, why not use it as shielding?

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:47:38 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Major and Minor Human Races

In a message dated 98-01-20 06:57:39 EST, you write:

<< It is one of the last TZD´ß s, issue 20 i think. And the name of Fiorin
 doesn´t appear there so i´ d assume that this is an entirely different
 human minor race!
 
 
  >>
FLORIANI and FIORAN are different peoples.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:18:53 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: KKMs and a couple of short FS memos

>No you would not, neither of the AT missiles have to dump the vector.

Those missiles are travelling kind of slow compared to your missile - to
say the least!


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jan 1998 11:20 EST
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: World "Skills"

Gentle Travellers,

I was musing over characteristic improvement in PCs, and it
hit me all at once... The Solution to world tech levels!
The final, consistently wonderful conclusion!

Ok, say we've got a world at TL6, but in medical sciences
it's two TL's higher.  Others have figured a multiple tech
rating, one for each major science.  This morning, I have
thought of something cognate to character skill levels.

Thus, my TL6 world might be:

Egvinus        0102 C876543-6 S  Ni Ag Med+2		821

....indicating that the world is at medical TL-8.

Since the trade classifier section is already tight, this should
only be used when absolutely necessary.

Implication: if the medical TL is dependent on the overall TL as
shown above, then a drop in overall TL will affect medical TL
unless precautions were taken.

Whaddaya think?

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:36:25 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: missiles in space

>I think neutrino detectors would be lucky to know there is a close
>star. I guess if you have an array of them you can get a
>direction...
>
>I never like d the idea of neutrino homing missiles since it opens a
>can of worms. Not the least of which is that if you can interact
>with neutrinos to detect them, why not use it as shielding?
>
>-Merrick

You're free to do what you like in your universe but in my Traveller
universe neutrino detectors get a major improvement at TL 13+ but they're
still way to big for mounting on missiles.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:00:04 PST
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)

"Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> writes:

<<For example, some* of the gray-haired parishioners at my Anglican 
church complain about any hymn that doesn't have organ music; they want 
_traditional_ hymns.  When I point out that organs were an innovation of 
the mid-19th century, that before that most Anglican churches had bands 
playing whatever instruments they had,....>>


Most churches usually didn't have music beyond voices...  A cappella was 
the way it was done...  Instrumentation is like you said a relatively 
recent addition to the worship services....

Greg



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:30:32 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: An embarrassing question...I should know this...

>Ack, its been too long since I had physics. This is a damn *high school*
>level question, but I'm drawing a complete blank. Ack ack ack.
>
>What would the final velocity of a craft be if it accelerated at .4G for 32
>hours?
>
>Could someone refresh the memory of this moron on the formula for this
>stuff...I'm working on a low tech colony ship using FF&S primitive drives,
>and I want to see what kind of performance is needed - ie, can it be done.
>
>Thanks.
>
>*sigh* I can't believe I've forgotten how to do this. *THWAP* *THWAP*
>*THWAP* (sound of head hitting desk).

You should be ashamed, don't you know how to use a web search tool?

V=AT^2

or Velocity equals Acceleration times Time, Squared.

My Physics doesn't tell me if it matters, but I remember this formula
definitely works when units are V in Meters/sec, Accel in Meters per sec
per sec (aka per sec squared) and Time is in seconds.

So lessee

A = .4G which is 4m/sec^2  (I hope I remember correctly that 1G=10 m/s^2)
T = 32 hours, or 115,200 seconds.

V = 4*115,200^2

V = 4*13,271,040,000

V = 53,084,160,000 m/s or 53,084,160 km/sec or 14,745 km/hour

Adds up quick, no?

Pete


Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"Shiela-X where are you"

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #16
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Traveller-digest      Tuesday, January 20 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 017



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

re: missiles in space
Re: An embarrassing question...I should know this...
Re: Cool Minis
RE: Traveller-digest V1998 #16
Re: Embarrassing question
RE: An embarrassing question...I should know this...
Re: An embarrassing question...I should know this...
Re:Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography
Re: An embarrassing question...I should know this...
What is an MFD
re: missiles in space
Re Darrians
Re: missiles in space
Re: An embarrassing question...I should know this...
Re: What is an MFD
Re: What is an MFD
re: An embarrassing question...I should know this... >
Re: An embarrassing question...I should know this...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:39:46 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: missiles in space

>What was the pen value for your 3dt PD laser?
It was optimized for defending against normal missiles, so the pen 
was about 20 at 15,000km, and 10 at 30,000km. ROF was up around 
50 shots per second (the highest allowed for lasers in FFS1), so it 
could get 50 100-G missiles that had had one BL turn to accelerate. 
(This was in the Old Days, so I was more worried about HEPlaR than
thrusters.) It used various other clever tricks like battery power, 
so it couldn't sustain its max ROF for a full turn - just for 2000 shots.

>A what if then, could it stop 50 missiles at 30 G's accel for one hour each
>dispensing 1000 ultradense 10mm balls?
That depends on the range they deploy their BB's, of course; for reasonable/
physical explosives I can't remember what the deployment range is. If they
deploy inside the can't miss range (about 6000 km for 30 G 0.5-dTon missiles)
it'll get about 10 missiles for every 1000km they travel before deploying.
If they deploy outside that range it becomes a more complicated 
tradeoff...the laser isn't particularly optimized for long-range big BB
missiles. Of course, since the laser costs about 1/5th what even a small
T-plate missile does, it doesn't need to kill very many to be cost-effective...
and big missiles are vulnerable to the main laser battery.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:55:00 +0100 (MET)
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
Subject: Re: An embarrassing question...I should know this...

On Tue, 20 Jan 1998, Peter H. Brenton wrote:

> >Ack, its been too long since I had physics. This is a damn *high school*
> >level question, but I'm drawing a complete blank. Ack ack ack.
> >
> >What would the final velocity of a craft be if it accelerated at .4G for 32
> >hours?
> >
> >Could someone refresh the memory of this moron on the formula for this
> >stuff...I'm working on a low tech colony ship using FF&S primitive drives,
> >and I want to see what kind of performance is needed - ie, can it be done.
> >
> >Thanks.
> >
> >*sigh* I can't believe I've forgotten how to do this. *THWAP* *THWAP*
> >*THWAP* (sound of head hitting desk).
> 
[Try to answer this buy Peter deleted]

I think Peter was wrong on this one. The right formula is

V = AT + V0 

where V is velocity (m/s), A is acceleration (m/s^2), T is time (s) and
V0 is velocity at start of acceleration (m/s). What Peter gave was the
formula for distance travelled.

Now we get

 V = 4m/s^2 * 32 * 60 * 60s = 460800 m/s = 460.8 km/s = 1.658.880 km/h

Be aware that Peter also slipped in the transition from m/s to m/h. (I
think :-) 

Tommy Grav                  tommy.grav@astro.uio.no    
Institute of Astrophysics   http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/
University in Oslo          "If you value your lives, be somwhere 
Norway                       else!" - Ambassador Delenn B5 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:51:08 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Cool Minis

>I might buy some, figure out a consistant scale for them (should be
>easy since we know the length of the Yamato :-) and do up some
>designs for traveller.  They look like they are actually in scale
>with each other (or decently close). I'm guessing they're about
>1:5000 since they look about like the ships I've been sculpting
>scale wise.

I hope not, depending on how big you think Yamato is compared to Traveller
ships.

At 70,000 tons (displacement of water, of course, not L-HYD), and 862 feet
(263m) the Yamato would be 2.06 inches long at 1:5000.  Not very mighty, eh?

My cousin has 1:1200 models that would be pretty fun for mini combat.  That
would make Yamato 8.6 inches long.  Probably the biggest thing on the
board, but then again, it was, wasn't it?

Perhaps the 1:2400 scale would be best? 4.3 inches is still big for a hex,
but the smaller ships would still be visible to the naked eye at least.

Pete


Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"Shiela-X where are you"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:58:00 -0000
From: Douglas Sinclair <eem2ds@ee.surrey.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1998 #16

> You should be ashamed, don't you know how to use a web search tool?
You should be ashamed of believing anything you read on the web...

> V=AT^2
> 
Nope.  delta v=at.

> or Velocity equals Acceleration times Time, Squared.
Final velocity equals acceleration times time, plus initial velocity

For 0.4G, and 32 hours:
v = 4 m/sec^2 * 115200 sec
  = 460800 m/sec

> V = 53,084,160,000 m/s or 53,084,160 km/sec or 14,745 km/hour
Um, look again at that conversion from km/sec to km/hour

> Adds up quick, no?
Especially with the new math <grin>.

> Pete
> 
Let me put in a plug here for HP48G calculators.  They'll keep track of
units for you, eliminating this sort of problem.

Doug

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:09:18 -0600 (CST)
From: Don Stark <stark@glacier.nrlssc.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: Embarrassing question

> V=AT^2
> or Velocity equals Acceleration times Time, Squared.

Sorry, you've forgotten your high school physics too.
Position x goes as the square of time , i.e. x = xo vo*t +(1/2)*g*t^2.
Where vo is the starting velocity and xo is the starting position.
Velocity is the derivative of that, i.e. v = vo + g*t.

The way you had it the units are wrong. Notice that velocity v (= meters/sec)
is equal to the product  acceleration times time, which in equivalent 
units is (meters/s^2) * s.
> 
> My Physics doesn't tell me if it matters, but I remember this formula
> definitely works when units are V in Meters/sec, Accel in Meters per sec
> per sec (aka per sec squared) and Time is in seconds.
> 
> So lessee
> 
> A = .4G which is 4m/sec^2  (I hope I remember correctly that 1G=10 m/s^2)

Actually its g not G that you want. The value for g ~ 9.8 meters/second^2.
So you were close enough. As for units it only matters that you be consistent
with them. For MKS (meters, kilograms, seconds) g~9.8 m/s^2. For feet
g~32 ft/s^2. And in miles g~6*10^-3 miles/sec^2 = 7.8*10^4 mi/hr^2.

So the velocity at .4g after 32 hours is 1,128,960 m/s ~ 1129 km/s.
Or roughly 2,496,000 miles/hr.

> T = 32 hours, or 115,200 seconds.
> 
> V = 4*115,200^2
> 
> V = 4*13,271,040,000
> 
> V = 53,084,160,000 m/s or 53,084,160 km/sec or 14,745 km/hour
> 

- -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
                                |                                   |
Don Stark                       |           ,/7_                    |
                                |          /   _`,                  |
Naval Research Lab, Code 7322   |         (.)\) \|_                 |
Bay St. Louis, MS 39529         |          0    /^~'                |
- --------------------------------|                                   |
e-mail: stark@nrlssc.navy.mil   |                                   |
- --------------------------------|                                   |
Phone: (228) 688-4151 work      |              ' )( `               |
       (228) 688-4759 fax       |   ~~~~~~~~~~~''  ``~~~~~~~~~~~~   |
- --------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:12:05 -0600
From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com>
Subject: RE: An embarrassing question...I should know this...

On Tuesday, 20 January 1998 11:31, Peter H. Brenton
[SMTP:pbrenton@mit.edu] wrote:
> >What would the final velocity of a craft be if it accelerated at .4G
for
> >32
> >hours?
> 
> You should be ashamed, don't you know how to use a web search tool?
> 
> V=AT^2
> 
> or Velocity equals Acceleration times Time, Squared.
> 
> My Physics doesn't tell me if it matters, but I remember this formula
> definitely works when units are V in Meters/sec, Accel in Meters per
sec
> per sec (aka per sec squared) and Time is in seconds.
> 

Check your dimensional analysis:

v = (m/sec^2)*(sec)^2
v = m/sec^2 * sec^2
v = m

Since you want V in m/sec, not m, you've got an extra sec.

The actual equation is:

v = v0 + at

v= ending velocity
v0 = starting velocity
a = acceleration
t=time

so:
v = v0 + at
v = (0) + (.4m/sec^2)(32hrs*60min/hrs*60sec/min)
v = (.4m/sec^2)(11500sec)
v=46080 m/sec


Other equations like this can be found at the SpaceFAQ, which used to be
at ftp://explorer.arc.nasa.gov/pub/SPACE/FAQ, but can be found at a
local mirror at http://www.physics.swin.oz.au:70/0/misc/space-faq.

These files will also soon be mirrored at the Not-the-IG Website.

I use to be a physicist, but I got better. :-)

- -Vanya                                                      UPP-8D9B85
Traveller ---------------- Science Fiction Adventure in the Far Future
Meyers-Briggs personality type:ENTJ              | vanya@partyline.net
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with."     | dmoody@bridge.com
 ----------------------- The Future is in Beta -----------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:24:08 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: An embarrassing question...I should know this...

>Are you sure its
>V=A(T^2)?
>
>The units don't cancel right-
>V=AT works...

Absoulutely corrrect.

I'm confusing the formula for Velocity (V=A*T) with the formula for
Distance Travelled (d=1/2*A*(T^2)).

Shows you what a 'quick' answer is worth.

Pete


Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"Shiela-X where are you"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:32:30 +0000
From: "Ashley.greenall" <ashley.greenall@virgin.net>
Subject: Re:Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography

<HTML>
I<I>IRC, there were individual maps in several issues with scenarios, but
the</I>
<BR><I>one with plans for each type of starport based around "parkbays"
was:</I>
<BR><I>"Happy Landings - Starports in Traveller" by Thomas M Price, in
WD 43. I</I>
<BR><I>liked that a lot and have used it on and off ever since, although
I'm not</I>
<BR><I>sure all those 5 km runways are necessary.</I>

<P><I>Andy</I>

<P>I would be intrested if someone could scan this and e-Mail me with it.

<P>Ash.

<P><I>Eagles may soar, but weasels aren't sucked into jet engines.</I></HTML>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:17:25 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: An embarrassing question...I should know this...

Peter H. Brenton wrote:

> >Ack, its been too long since I had physics. This is a damn *high school*
> >level question, but I'm drawing a complete blank. Ack ack ack.
> >
> >What would the final velocity of a craft be if it accelerated at .4G for 32
> >hours?
> You should be ashamed, don't you know how to use a web search tool?
>
> V=AT^2
>
> or Velocity equals Acceleration times Time, Squared.
>

Nope. The units don't work. It's:

    v(final) = v(initial) + at

assuming that acceleration is constant. To look at units:

    metres/second = metres/second + metres/(second*second) * second

The units in the 'at' part cancel to leave just metres/second.

The formula for distance is:

    s(final) = s(initial) + 0.5at^2

Perhaps you were confusing the two.

Correct me if I'm wrong!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:00:29 -0600
From: "Joul, Christopher" <JOUC1@Aerial1.com>
Subject: What is an MFD

Ok this may seem a stupid question, but...

What is an MFD?

I know it stands for Master Fire Director, and it is used to group
Turrets into Batteries, and control Missiles.

But what does it consist of, and why is it so expensive?

Could a cheeper one be made just to do one function?  (i.e. create an
MFD soley for grouping turrets into batteries or one soley for
controling missiles).

The reason I ask is that quite often the cost of MFD is often the
largest portion of some ship designs (particularly fighters), and I was
looking for a way to cut down the cost.

Chris.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:10:30 -0600
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: re: missiles in space

At 09:39 AM 1/20/98 -0800, Bruce Alan Macintosh wrote:
>
>>What was the pen value for your 3dt PD laser?
>It was optimized for defending against normal missiles, so the pen 
>was about 20 at 15,000km, and 10 at 30,000km. ROF was up around 
>50 shots per second (the highest allowed for lasers in FFS1), so it 
>could get 50 100-G missiles that had had one BL turn to accelerate. 
>(This was in the Old Days, so I was more worried about HEPlaR than
>thrusters.) It used various other clever tricks like battery power, 
>so it couldn't sustain its max ROF for a full turn - just for 2000 shots.

Hmm how did you build 100 G missiles in FFS1? I don't remember any that
could fit in the *standard* missile displacement.

>>A what if then, could it stop 50 missiles at 30 G's accel for one hour each
>>dispensing 1000 ultradense 10mm balls?
>That depends on the range they deploy their BB's, of course; for reasonable/
>physical explosives I can't remember what the deployment range is. If they
>deploy inside the can't miss range (about 6000 km for 30 G 0.5-dTon missiles)
>it'll get about 10 missiles for every 1000km they travel before deploying.
>If they deploy outside that range it becomes a more complicated 
>tradeoff...the laser isn't particularly optimized for long-range big BB
>missiles. Of course, since the laser costs about 1/5th what even a small
>T-plate missile does, it doesn't need to kill very many to be
cost-effective...
>and big missiles are vulnerable to the main laser battery.

Well lets say I only need 10 percent out of each missile to hit the
defending ship. That would mean that they would be deploying a lot earlier
than the above range.

On error is logic it is not the cost of the missile versus PD system it is
the cost of the missile versus the cost of the target. So you should base
your defensive cost on how much it cost to build the targeted ship. Not how
cheaply you can build the PD lasers. If the *cheap* PD laser is not 100
percent effective under *most* conditions and circumstances, you can tell
the survivors if any about how *cost effective* the PD laser was in
comparison to the missile(s) that destroyed/damaged their ship. I am sure
they will agree with your logic.<G>

If a 250Mcr missile takes out of action/destroys a 1,500 Mcr warship, and
is reusable afterwards then the actual costs of the missiles is only for
fuel and payload, which is a lot less than 100Mcr.

Another point if the ship has to use the main laser batteries to defend
against a missile/submunitions threat, also means that those main batteries
are not firing at the enemy ships, but the enemies main batteries can be
firing at you. How long will that type of ship last in a battle, if it has
to misuse the main batteries in a such role every time a missile swarm
comes a knocking. 

By the way how vulnerable would the radiators be to a KKM attack, ie how
much damage could they take before the reducing the effectiveness of the
radiators.

Hey why not make missiles that are IR homers just for those heat radiators,
even if the they turn off the power plant the radiators will still be hot
for awhile afterwards.

We can also make a *Shrike* missiles, ones that home in active LADAR/AEMS
sensors.

Both types would be *fire and forget* type of missiles, no need for a MFD
to ride heard on them.
- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:34:19 +0000
From: Phil Kitching <PhilK@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re Darrians

>Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:14:21 -0100 (GMT)
>From: Urtzi <lcajaleu@xa.lc.ehu.es>
>Subject: Re: Darrians
>
>> 
>> I don't think they triggered a nova. Just some major solar flares. I could
>> be wrong as I'm also doing this from memory. It seems to me that their
>> central star couldn't continue to exist after going nova, though, right?
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Chris Griffen 
>
> As far as I know, it would continue to exist; a star could go nova more 
>than once, it's not a destructive process (opposite to supernova). 
>Anyway, I suppose that the planets orbiting that star would be devastated 
>(if not physically destroyed) by such a phenomenon, so I prefer the 
>"major solar flares" explanation (and the Darrians too, I think ;-)).
>
<Taking a big risk because there are experts listening>

A supernova is when the Star runs out of fuel (ie has fused all the way to
iron in its core), the core collapses and it goes bang big time (light output
equal to a galaxy, its planetary system disappears).

A nova requires a binary system of a giant star (normally an old red giant?)
and a white dwarf (or neutron star?).
When some of the giant star is pulled on to the dwarf, it is compressed,
heated and starts a fusion reaction which causes the White Dwarf to shine
brightly
for a short period. Novas are infrequent because you need a significant
amount of 
hydrogen to be transferred in one go.

I don't think that you could expect a planet to be habitable in such a system.

<dives for cover>

Phil Kitching
- --
  Mailto:Philk@btinternet.com (don't blame BT - they only pay me:)
  Get out of the Way! Another Salvo bandwagon is beginning to roll.
  http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:36:06 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: missiles in space

Bruce wrote:

>>Overall, if you do the numbers, KKM's don't fit "classic" traveller very
>>well;
>>they do overwhelming amounts of damage but hit very rarely. The det-lasers
>>(aside from their association with nukes) actually resemble the "classic"
>>traveller missile (moderate amount of damage, moderately hard to shoot down)
>>much better.

How far out can you detonate a det-laser missile? For example, StarCruiser
(for 2300) allowed detonation at 1 hex range (up to 1,200,000 km ie 40
30kkm hexes).

Also, Starcruiser hits either scrubbed the surface fixtures and ignored
armour, or had to penetrate the armour. Against the Kafers that could be
nasty (

90% effective screen then
		20% hits to surface fixtures
		60% hits then had armour to contend with which could be 90%
effective.

Of course, it did have it's limits (like throwing 100d10 to resolve a 10
det-laser missile spreads' hit locations (10 x 2 points each) ). I did like
that game.


I miss the old Traveller non-nuclear missiles - if someone could justify a
kkm I'd appreciate it ;-)

Dom (using HG happily with T4, looking forward to Mayday(T4))

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:51:25 +0000
From: Phil Kitching <PhilK@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: An embarrassing question...I should know this...

>Ack, its been too long since I had physics. This is a damn *high school*
>level question, but I'm drawing a complete blank. Ack ack ack.
>
>What would the final velocity of a craft be if it accelerated at .4G for 32
>hours?
>
>Could someone refresh the memory of this moron on the formula for this
>stuff...I'm working on a low tech colony ship using FF&S primitive drives,
>and I want to see what kind of performance is needed - ie, can it be done.
>
>Thanks.
>
>*sigh* I can't believe I've forgotten how to do this. *THWAP* *THWAP*
>*THWAP* (sound of head hitting desk).

everything in metres and seconds

v = final velocity
u = initial velocity
t = time
a = acceleration
s = distance covered whilst accelerating

s = ut + 0.5at^2
v = u + at

A = .4G which is 4m/sec^2 
T = 32 hours, or 115,200 seconds.

v = 460,800m/s
  = 1,658,880km/hr

Phil Kitching
- --
  Mailto:Philk@btinternet.com (don't blame BT - they only pay me:)
  Get out of the Way! Another Salvo bandwagon is beginning to roll.
  http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:56:21 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: What is an MFD

At 01:00 PM 1/20/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Ok this may seem a stupid question, but...
>
>What is an MFD?
>
>I know it stands for Master Fire Director, and it is used to group
>Turrets into Batteries, and control Missiles.
>
>But what does it consist of, and why is it so expensive?

A MRD consists of the tracking sensors, and the machinery/software tying
all the weapons in the battery together.  MRDs also make use of information
about changes in the ship's heading or velocity, and adjusts fire accordingly.

I don't see why a fighter would need a MFD, though.
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:06:54 -0600
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Re: What is an MFD

At 01:00 PM 1/20/98 -0600, Joul, Christopher wrote:
>Ok this may seem a stupid question, but...
>
>What is an MFD?
>
>I know it stands for Master Fire Director, and it is used to group
>Turrets into Batteries, and control Missiles.

Actually a closer term/name for it would be Fire Direction Center(FDC). It
is in no way the *Master* fire director for the ship. A ship would have
only one *Master* Fire Direction Center for the entire ship.

>But what does it consist of, and why is it so expensive?

Well a FDC should have some form of data computer(but not the ENIAC sized
ones listed), sensor data inputs, interior communications links, some type
of control/management console, and control links to the weapons dedicated
to the FDC. It would be a coordinator of all weapons under it control,
controlling target management and engagement there of. If it was being used
for Semi Active missiles or terminally guided missiles an illuminator would
also be needed. An Illuminator would be some type of active sensor
configured to project a tight cone or pencil beam of sensor radiations.
Other types of missiles would require some type of a communicator to send
commands to the missile(s), either tight beam or broadcast.

A *Master* Fire Direction Center would be the main center for coordination
of *all* sensor data, target management, and chief coordinator over all
FDC's and weapons. Ie FDC1 cover the starboard defense axis, FDC2 cover the
Forward Axis, Alert FDC1 incoming missiles your axis, etc. Kinda like the
AEGIS CIC or a EWACS plane in a battlefield. It would have to have the same
things that a FDC would have but also have to have exterior communicators,
sensor controls, and links to all FDC's onboard. It would have more than
one control console, at lower TL's especially. 

>Could a cheeper one be made just to do one function?  (i.e. create an
>MFD soley for grouping turrets into batteries or one soley for
>controling missiles).

I would say so for only one function reduce costs, volume etc, by half.

>The reason I ask is that quite often the cost of MFD is often the
>largest portion of some ship designs (particularly fighters), and I was
>looking for a way to cut down the cost.

Yes I agree, the cost a *too* high for what they can do.
- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 20:10:04 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: An embarrassing question...I should know this... >

 "Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net> wrote

>Ack, its been too long since I had physics. This is a damn *high school*
>level question, but I'm drawing a complete blank. Ack ack ack.
>
>What would the final velocity of a craft be if it accelerated at .4G for 32
>hours?

For constant acceleration....

V = U + AT
V = final velocity (m/s)
U = initial velocity (m/s) = 0 m/s
A = constant acceleration (m/s^2) = 0.4 x 9.81 = 3.924 m/s^2
T = time (s) = 32 x 60 x 60 = 115,200 secs

V = 0 + (115200*3.924) = 452044.8 m/s = 452 km/s

other equations are:
V^2 = U^2 +2AS

where S = distance (m)

S = UT + (0.5 x (A x T^2))

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 20:15:08 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: An embarrassing question...I should know this...

"Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu> wrote:

>You should be ashamed, don't you know how to use a web search tool?
>
>V=AT^2
>
>or Velocity equals Acceleration times Time, Squared.
>
>My Physics doesn't tell me if it matters, but I remember this formula
>definitely works when units are V in Meters/sec, Accel in Meters per sec
>per sec (aka per sec squared) and Time is in seconds.
>
>So lessee
>
>A = .4G which is 4m/sec^2  (I hope I remember correctly that 1G=10 m/s^2)
>T = 32 hours, or 115,200 seconds.
>
>V = 4*115,200^2
>
>V = 4*13,271,040,000
>
>V = 53,084,160,000 m/s or 53,084,160 km/sec or 14,745 km/hour
>
>Adds up quick, no?

Looks like the laws of Physics are different in the States. ;-)

In the original UK version, the equation was V = U + AT

;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #17
*********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Tuesday, January 20 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 018



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Major and Minor Human Races
Re: Printing Delays - Missions of State
Re: Major and Minor Human Races and a warning to Kenji?
A few digests of replies
Re: Cool Minis
Re: Major and Minor Human Races
Re: Thrusters
Re: Printing Delays - Missions of State
Re: Cool Minis
Re: Thrusters
Rampart, AHL
RE: What is an MFD
Re: Major and Minor Human Races
Re: Thrusters
Civvy Nukes
RE: What is an MFD
Re: Major and Minor Human Races and a warning to Kenji?
[T98#14] Off-Topic - Ice Crisis in Eastern North America

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 20:33 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Major and Minor Human Races

In-Reply-To: <v0151010eb0e8af0e2f97@[209.43.128.174]>

Kenji,

> >Human Races of the Imperium (a partial list).
> [snip]
> >
> >Narc Miller
>  
> HOLY CRAP!!!!
>  
> <flush drug drug down toilet>
> <throw blanket over jet bong>
> <attach Windex bottle to transdermal injector, look busy at window>

<expel coffee nasally>
:-)
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 20:33 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Printing Delays - Missions of State

In-Reply-To: <l03020903b0e9e3e3e9f3@[142.154.173.28]>

Roderick,

> >There is a five-county
> >area in upstate New York that has been declared a disaster area
> >because of the recent (and possibly still ongoing) ice storm
> >conditions that have so drastically affected that area, plus New
> >England and QuÈbec.  Many utilities are completely out of
> >service; a state of emergency has been declared.  As a result,
> >there have been (and will continue to be, in the near term)
> >difficulties in printing this item, which I am told _is_ in the
> >printer's hands.
>  
>  So basically, if the stuff is at a printer in upstate NY, don't
> wait by the mailbox..:\

On Friday IG assured me MoS would ship this week. You're not suggesting they 
*lied* to me, are you?
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 20:33 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Major and Minor Human Races and a warning to Kenji?

In-Reply-To: <v01510100b0e8e27e9548@[209.43.128.174]>

Kenji,

> Must be a flashback.  Them and those pink Vargr.

There was a Vargr in my campaign who went around in combat armour 
painted bright pink...
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:48:33 +0000
From: Andy Lilly <a.s.lilly@nortel.co.uk>
Subject: A few digests of replies

Hi all, sorry I'm a few days behind as usual, anyway:

101 RELIGIONS

Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com> said:
>When creating religions for your game, why use your personal tastes
>to determine their doctrine?  Does every organization you create fit
>your personal standards?  I would think that religions would run the
>whole spectrum from strict fringe cults to new age to very conservative...

101 Religions, an upcoming BITS/CORE publication, will give you 101 such
religions, from the normal to the completely wacky. However, this book will
be very carefully vetted prior to production to ensure that the style in
which it is written does not give offence to the more religious Traveller
players.

If anyone wants to contribute, please contact Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
who is currently coordinating the work on my behalf.

I think Harold made a good general point:
>The key to writing about passionate subjects is to try to keep as
>open a mind as possible to other possibilities...

Kenji then said:
>Soon, soon, we'll have you all smoking drug drug through rolled-up copies
>of _Starships_ and _First Survey_...

You mean you've found a use for Starships?

SCAREY POWERPLANTS

Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU> said, about people being
nervous of having hundreds of nuclear power plants active at the starport...

>Oh, puleeeze! At the risk of sounding strident, Traveller is NOT 1998 with
>starships!!! At this point those citizens have been living with small,
>often portable fusion power sources for _thousands_ of years. Being
>'Nervous' about having working fusion plants around would be like us being
>'nervous' about having all that dangerous electricity in our house on the 
>grounds that it might leap out of it's wires and strike us when we're not 
>looking.

Ah, like all those people (certainly in the UK) who are 'nervous' about
living under high voltage electricity cables because of the effect of their
EM fields, or those people who claim to be affected by EM from military
microwave links that pass close to their houses. Then there would be all
those people who hardly worry at all about past 'wonderful science' such as
the thalidomide (sp?) pill, or DES, or 3 Mile Island or trans-fatty acids or
nitrates in food or genetically modified soya or any other of the millions
of technical wonders that are claimed to be "the future" now, but might be
found to be severe problems in the future?

NB: I don't have views on these topics, necessarily, and I definitely don't
intend anyone any offence by them and PLEASE don't spend the next 10 TMLs
just discussing the chemical structure of DES or whatever! :-) They're just
the first thoughts that came into my head, ok?

One failed power plant which caused an explosion will likely cause a flood
of laws on a world. Such things may take just a few years to implement (even
with some government resistance) but may stick around for hundreds of years.
Other governments may simply object to having certain things (e.g. nuclear
power sources - as per the Australian government a few years back; is this
still the case?) in their own back yard. Add in the usual wacky human
factors and I don't doubt that large numbers of ports may require
powerplants to be closed down or at least put on standby while on the
ground, as well as 101 other laws about disabling starship weaponry, etc.

Other people have also 

MULTIPLE STARPORTS

Robert N Harris <rh1i+@andrew.cmu.edu> pointed out that WBH allowed several
starports with major cities, etc.

FYI, the new World Designer's Handbook will also have multiple ports for a
world.

WOMEN PLAYING TRAVELLER

Vanya mentioned:
>(Course, one is my wife, and I *met* her playing Traveller)

Likewise (yes, honestly). The other two women in our RPG groups are also
wives of male players and they *are* there because they enjoy it, not
because they're "dragged along"! :-)

15mm FIGURES AND VEHICLES

"Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com> asked if anyone was still
playing with 15mm figures.

Yup, it's the only size I use for Traveller, as everything (from buildings
to starships to weapon ranges) is generally that much bigger than a game
such as AD&D. I have a fair collection of very old to reasonably old figures
(most of which are allegedly Traveller figures, although I have my doubts
about the quality of some of them). I've also looked at Micromachines stuff
and I've adapted old matchbox cars to grav vehicles (take a sports car
model, cut off the tyres, pad out the holes, apply modelling putty and shape
it to give a streamlined shape, or add in grav module 'bumps' or whatever,
add extra features (wings, whatever), then paint. Either using a hole
already present under the car, or using a very fine drill, insert and glue
thin strong wire, or a transparent plastic pole or equivalent, then glue
this to a base, to make the vehicle 'hover' above the ground. Matchbox
military vehicles, etc. can be adapted just as easily. I've also seen some
good metal and resin vehicles, although these are often not 15mm and can be
costly.

SEX, ALCOHOL AND ROCK-AND-ROLL

Semo mentioned:
>Alcohol in AD&D should best be roleplayed.  Using tables and rules for such a
>thing is really silly, IMHO.  Sex in AD&D...  Well, just leave it out.  We
>don't need the harlot encounter tables ("You meet a brazen strumpet and a
>wanton trollop.  What do you do?"), and I think sex area should be tread with
>delicate feet...  Doesn't need to be in the rule books at any rate...

These are definitely down to individual player/ref preference. I only play
adult groups, although many of my demo' games have been for youngsters, so I
apply quite different principles to each. In the adult games in which I
play, taking Ars Magica as an example, I have a 16-year-old wannabe-bard in
- -55 BC or somesuch who has the "weakness for a pretty face" and "compulsive
drinker" quirks. As the oldest of our bunch of travelling youngsters (the
characters range from an 8-year old upwards) mine is the only one really
subject to strong sexual urges and also the worst at holding down his drink.
The combination tends to be extremely amusing (to us, at least). Running
away from irate fathers could get to be a habit, the irony being that
something always seems to happen to interrupt my character just before he
gets to the interesting part with the young women...

THRUSTER THEORY

HAL <hal@buffnet.net> said, about Thrusters:

>Essentially stated, the maneuver drive
>(so spake Hal) is a drive that "thrusts" against both the jumpspace
>universe as well as the physical universe.  The "thrust" is in the
>jumpspace, but the ship is in the realspace.  I treat the "reactionless"
>thruster as a "field effect" with respect to traveller since it is volume
>reltated instead of mass related (In CT that is). 

Same technobabble I use and which I proposed to IG as a possible 'canon'
back when T4 was being drafted. Never mind...

LONG RUNWAYS

anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman) said, re Space Station
Architect's Manual / Starport Topography,

>>"Happy Landings - Starports in Traveller" by Thomas M Price, in WD 43. I
>>liked that a lot and have used it on and off ever since, although I'm not
>>sure all those 5 km runways are necessary.
>I've used the article as basis for my own starport designs and therefore I
>had to come up with a reason for those HUGE runways (or any runways for
>that matter).

Likewise. There was an explanation (in the article I believe) which
demonstrated significant fuel savings by landing on a runway rather than
using VTOL. That was back when contra-grav didn't seem to be applied widely
to ships, however. As regards designing ships, the 400 ton subs. merch. has
always (to my knowledge) been depicted as having wings - not just
streamlining for hovering down in an atmosphere, but *wings* which are
clearly for forward flight in an atmosphere. So I've always assumed that a
number of Traveller starships use runways in preference to VTOL landing pads.

Would anyone care to comment on the relative safety of either approach?
'Canon' starport designs in MT and TNE supplements tend only to have landing
pads, and often these are in relatively close proximity (given the potential
harm an starship might cause if it crash-landed) with insufficient berms or
equivalent shielding.

Andy
(Traveller Geek - unfortunately us geeks aren't allowed to own decent guns
here in the UK...)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:54:47 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Cool Minis

 
> At 70,000 tons (displacement of water, of course, not L-HYD), and 862 feet
> (263m) the Yamato would be 2.06 inches long at 1:5000.  Not very mighty, eh?
 
Yeah, at at TL15 Imperial, it'd be a (very) Light Cruiser. What's
the average radius of a cross section of the Yamato? 15m? 20m? At
20m (average) the Yamato would be Pi*20^2*283/14 dtons, or ~25
ktons.

So I'd hope it'd be that small. I'll post data when I actually have
some of these suckers in hand.

How interested would people be in (good!) Traveller minis for ships
in consistant scale? I might just make some. I can do metal, but I
actually prefer resin (my resin casts don't have bubbles, I hate
slop.).

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:42:18 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Major and Minor Human Races

Volker Greimann wrote:

>Kenji Schwarz wrote:
>
>> Floriani     ? Trojan Reaches        Traveller Digest ? [as someone else
>>        suggested recently, perhaps these are the "Fiorin" mentioned
>>above? It.
>>        "fiori" ~ Lat. "florae"]
>It is one of the last TZD´ß s, issue 20 i think. And the name of Fiorin
>doesn´t appear there so i´ d assume that this is an entirely different
>human minor race!

I was just thinking that (IIRC) "fiori" is Italian for "flower", and
"floria" is Latin for "floral" (again, IIRC), so perhaps there's a
connection or identity between the "Fiorin" and the "Floriani".

But then, Marc Miller wrote:
>  >>
>FLORIANI and FIORAN are different peoples.

So... do you have more information on the them, the Azhanti, the Acheron
and those other Traveller minor human groups?  After all those years of
fans wondering about them? <G>


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:59:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Thrusters

On Tue, 20 Jan 1998, CardSharks wrote:

> Thrusters. Thrusters move vehicles forward without the necessity of reaction
> mass (as required for rockets). Thrusters work like rockets, but without the
> requirements for large amounts of rocket fuel.
> 
> Thrusters make easy movement between worlds possible. The detail to which
> players want to go in using thrusters is up to them. Detail without purpose is
> avoided.

Hurrah!

I like that -- anything more detailed is essentially a "house rule".  This
is also consistent with the overall approach in T4 of limiting the details
of the "canonical" universe, so that new referees are not intimidated into
not developing campaigns in the Imperium for fear of either losing
"canonicality" or doing a crippling amount of research beforehand. Another
good example of this is the three sectors that are omitted from M:0 (past
and future, not just FS).  It's nice to have the privelege of making my
own campaign space without having to worry about it being "invalidated"
later by another supplement.

Thanks, Marc.


Clark

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:59:44 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Printing Delays - Missions of State

Andrew Boulton wrote:

> In-Reply-To: <l03020903b0e9e3e3e9f3@[142.154.173.28]>
>
> Roderick,
>
> > >There is a five-county
> > >area in upstate New York that has been declared a disaster area
> > >because of the recent (and possibly still ongoing) ice storm
> > >conditions that have so drastically affected that area, plus New
> > >England and QuÈbec.  Many utilities are completely out of
> > >service; a state of emergency has been declared.  As a result,
> > >there have been (and will continue to be, in the near term)
> > >difficulties in printing this item, which I am told _is_ in the
> > >printer's hands.
> >
> >  So basically, if the stuff is at a printer in upstate NY, don't
> > wait by the mailbox..:\
>
> On Friday IG assured me MoS would ship this week. You're not suggesting they
> *lied* to me, are you?
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
>  "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

 Not to be an IG apologist, but let's keep in mind the difference between
hopeful optomism (ie the product may still go out the door next week) and
intentional falsehood (the product is in the mail).

As long as my players are satisfied with the games I can produce, I will
continue to work with IG (albeit, not through direct sales).

douglas

- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:05:14 -0500 (EST)
From: Scott Taylor <izzylobo@faerealm.faerealm.com>
Subject: Re: Cool Minis

> > At 70,000 tons (displacement of water, of course, not L-HYD), and 862 feet
> > (263m) the Yamato would be 2.06 inches long at 1:5000.  Not very mighty, eh?
>  
> Yeah, at at TL15 Imperial, it'd be a (very) Light Cruiser. What's
> the average radius of a cross section of the Yamato? 15m? 20m? At
> 20m (average) the Yamato would be Pi*20^2*283/14 dtons, or ~25
> ktons.
> 
> So I'd hope it'd be that small. I'll post data when I actually have
> some of these suckers in hand.

Just watch out; those things are *bugger-all* expensive, thanks to the 
fact that they have etched metal parts for all the little wings and 
fiddly bits; very cool, but very expensive to produce (the Yamato is 
something like $10us at my FLGS... too rich for my blood, and I used to 
*love* Space Cruiser Yamato).
 
> How interested would people be in (good!) Traveller minis for ships
> in consistant scale? I might just make some. I can do metal, but I
> actually prefer resin (my resin casts don't have bubbles, I hate
> slop.).

If the prices were reasonable, and the detail good, I would be interested 
(especially if they were, say, twice the current scale... more space for 
all the cool fiddly bits, and more room for the scale to allow for 
different sizes for fighters and such).

Scott Taylor
Freelancer for Hire
Have Mac, Will Travel

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:50:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Thrusters

On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, Andrew Akins wrote:

> I was having a discussion with some friends about Traveller, and we got on
> the subject of the reactionless Thruster. All of us were smart enough to
> realize the problem, so we asked ourselves:
> 
> Why does it have to be reactionless? The classic maneuver drive was never
> well defined until SOM - it was just "the drive that moves the ship that
> doesn't take fuel".
> 
> Some thought that it must be a gravity drive of some sort, pushing off of
> the various gravity gradients of the system it is in. Of course, that
> introduces a hiccup in the form of varying performance depending on the
> local space-time curvature (read: gravity).
> 
> Some of us thought it might be an "exotic particle" drive - that is, some
> generated particle is used as the reaction mass. Of course this has the
> problem that most such particles wouldn't be able to generate the thrust
> necessary, since their mass is so small.
> 
> Anyone have any ideas on this? My group wants a decent explanation for the
> thruster unit (doesn't have to be perfect) that fits classic Traveller (our
> campaign setting) - thus HEPlaR is out.

The boxed module Beltstrike actually provided some (optional) rules for
reaction mass consumption on CT starships.  I believe they were worked out
so that a ship could accelerate continuously for 4 weeks without running
out of fuel.  I can look them up for you if you're interested.

It's hard to justify this at lower tech levels, but at higher tech levels
there is one possibility that I don't see much discussion of here.  At
higher tech levels, the maneuver drive could be related to repulsor
technology (described in the next paragraph).  If its reaction mass was
accelerated to near-c velocity, a ship could conceivably have enough for
four weeks of continuous burn.

It's hard to imagine a device that can accelerate a significant mass (a
mass that you could actually notice if you held it in your hand -- which
is what the fuel rates indicate) to a near-c velocity over a distance of
just a few meters.  However, over many thousands of meters it might be
possible.  If the maneuver drive projected some kind of gravimetric tunnel
out behind the ship, which acted to continuously accelerate the reaction
mass over many kilometers of distance, the final emission velocity might
approach that of light.  Presto!  A reaction drive so fuel-efficient it
makes HEPlaR look like a gas guzzler. 

The only additional detail I might attempt is to figure out the actual
emission velocity required, given a consumption rate.  Those equations are
pretty heavy, though, so I'd rather just use the Andy Slack approach and
block it out using 3rd person technobabble and a liberal dose of ellipses. 

And like Hal said for his suggestion, it's just an idea, not a new
proposal for canon.  It also fails to cover the lower tech levels.  Still,
I've been attached to it for some time.


ciao,
Clark

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:53:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Rampart, AHL

Hi,

Is there anyone out there who owns the Azhanti High Lightning supplement?
If so, would you mind sending me the HG statistics for the ships in that
supplement?  I don't need all the different bay configurations for the
AHL, just the basic ship will do.  I'm primarily interested in the Rampart
fighter and other subordinate craft (gunship, et. al.).

Whatever you can provide is much appreciated.

Thanks in advance!


Clark

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:27:59 -0600
From: "Joul, Christopher" <JOUC1@Aerial1.com>
Subject: RE: What is an MFD

I wrote

>>Ok this may seem a stupid question, but...
>>
>>What is an MFD?

Douglas E. Berry wrote:-
>A MRD consists of the tracking sensors, and the machinery/software
tying
>all the weapons in the battery together.  MRDs also make use of
information
>about changes in the ship's heading or velocity, and adjusts fire
accordingly.

I assume you mean MFD :-)

If that is all it consists of why does the cost go up so sharply with
increase in effective range (10 fold between 30kkm and 300kkm)?
Also if it consists of tracking sensors, how do they compare to LIDAR or
AEMS?

>I don't see why a fighter would need a MFD, though.

Two reasons under the current rules

+4dm at TL12
and
to improve weapon damage (groups of small weapons are more effective
under the current rules than one large weapon - for illustration in
THUDDD 7 one of the fighter designs has four laser turrets as one
battery).

The existing design rules don't give too much details on what they are
(or have I missed something?).

Chris.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:18:10 -0800
From: "Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing" <electric-stitch@w-link.net>
Subject: Re: Major and Minor Human Races

I know <who> Floriani is. In my industry (embroidery), Walter Floriani is
one of the biggest names. He is the eighth generation in his family to be in
this industry. It may be possible, that in the future, The Floriani's left
Earth to find a world of their own to do their embroidery. They were
separated from humaniti during the Long Night and were only just now
discovered.

....or maybe it was a typo.  :)

- -Shawn


>>> Floriani     ? Trojan Reaches        Traveller Digest ? [as someone else
>>>        suggested recently, perhaps these are the "Fiorin" mentioned
>>>above? It.
>>>        "fiori" ~ Lat. "florae"]
>>It is one of the last TZD´ß s, issue 20 i think. And the name of Fiorin
>>doesn´t appear there so i´ d assume that this is an entirely different
>>human minor race!
>
>But then, Marc Miller wrote:
>>  >>
>>FLORIANI and FIORAN are different peoples.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:44:38 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thrusters

Tsykoduk <tsykoduk@sprynet.com> wrote:

[snip of as good an explaination as I have heard]

I also agree with MT, in that there should be a min. size to the 
units.

There is, it's .1 m^3 (200 kN or 20 gravity tonnes)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:01:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Larry Hadley <lhadley@peterboro.net>
Subject: Civvy Nukes

> Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 10:13:33 -0800
> From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
> Subject: Re: spaceport authority customs
[snip]

> Personally I think that the problems with trying to police Nuclear weapons
> would cause them to be classified as something that the average citizen
> wouldn't be allowed to have.  Furthermore, the Imperium probably has some
> _serious_ detectors for checking ships out to see if they are carrying
> Nukes.  I'm sorry, the average citizen doesn't need Nukes, or X-Ray Lasers.
> It would be a _very_ difficult and time consuming process to get a license
> for a nuclear weapon, even if it's only being used in deep space demolition
> work.

    A couple of points:

    As far as I remember, Imperial Rules of War (ROW) prohibit nukes _on
planetary surfaces_. Nukes have been a staple on warships since CT.

    A missile sans warhead, dropped from orbit, will do nuke-equivalents
in damage anyways (remember ke = mv^2/2), so limiting nukes on ships will
make no difference that way.

    (If I don't seem lucid, it's because I'm not - extreme levels of pain
accompanied by painkillers do that! ;)


- -- DLH                                 lhadley@peterboro.net

homepage: http://text.peterboro.net/~lhadley/index.html
bio: http://text.peterboro.net/~lhadley/Profile.html

  "Fight to fly, fly to fight, fight to win." - TOPGUN motto.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:47:47 -0600
From: "Joul, Christopher" <JOUC1@Aerial1.com>
Subject: RE: What is an MFD

I wrote:-

>>What is an MFD?
>>
>>I know it stands for Master Fire Director, and it is used to group
>>Turrets into Batteries, and control Missiles.

Sam Thomas  wrote

>Actually a closer term/name for it would be Fire Direction Center(FDC).
It
>is in no way the *Master* fire director for the ship. A ship would have
>only one *Master* Fire Direction Center for the entire ship.

but it is the term used in SSDS and FFS.

>>But what does it consist of, and why is it so expensive?

>Well a FDC should have some form of data computer(but not the ENIAC
sized
>ones listed), sensor data inputs, interior communications links, some
type
>of control/management console, and control links to the weapons
dedicated
>to the FDC. It would be a coordinator of all weapons under it control,
>controlling target management and engagement there of.

Very little of which is affected by range (300kkm FDC is 10 times the
volume and cost of a 30kkm FDC).

> If it was being used
>for Semi Active missiles or terminally guided missiles an illuminator
would
>also be needed. An Illuminator would be some type of active sensor
>configured to project a tight cone or pencil beam of sensor radiations.
>Other types of missiles would require some type of a communicator to
send
>commands to the missile(s), either tight beam or broadcast.

OK, I can understand how range affects these components (though not a 10
fold incresase).

<cut explanation of  *Master* Fire Direction Center>

>Yes I agree, the cost a *too* high for what they can do.

It feels good to not be the only one.

Chris.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:23:39 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Major and Minor Human Races and a warning to Kenji?

Andrew Boulton wrote:

>> Must be a flashback.  Them and those pink Vargr.
>
>There was a Vargr in my campaign who went around in combat armour
>painted bright pink...

SEEE???  So I'm _NOT_ crazy!!!  IT was REEALLLL!!!!

Hmmm.... punk Vargrs wouldn't wear studded collars... maybe little bow
ties?  Chartreuse velveteen, of course.  With burgundy polka-dots.  And
instead of body piercing and tattoos... whisker mascara?


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:42:23 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: [T98#14] Off-Topic - Ice Crisis in Eastern North America

On Mon, 19 Jan 1998 23:47:28 -0500, Roderick Darroch Elliott
<rde@ican.net> wrote:

>Jeff Zeitlin wrote:

>>This is, for the time being, a bad thing.


>	Hm...  you running for understatement of the month?  It deprived
>over three million people of electricity in the dead of winter.  Amazingly
>enough, there's been little looting here, however.  The fact that there are
>a bunch of Canadian Forces troops policing the blacked out areas has
>helped; the Somalia scandal is probably scaring would-be looters..:).

I know someone with family in the affected area of NYS.  When
someone mentioned the lack of looting in the area to him, he said
"I have no difficulty believing this at all - the would-be
looters are probably too busy trying to stay alive and warm to be
out looting."

As far as understatement goes, I don't think the English language
contains vocabulary sufficient to describe just how much being in
that part of the world sucks - and my French is worse than
non-existent, so I can't say whether it has the vocabulary,
either.  When the weather is nice, and everything works, it's a
lovely area - but right now, I'm glad I'm in the Metropolitan
Rotten Apple.

>people without power.  The local news doesn't say a lot about upstate New
>York, but apparently they're in prety deep trouble too.

Pretty much the same.  Niagara-Mohawk is busy trying to restore
power, and Consolidated Edison of New York is helping, as is the
Power Authority of the State of New York - but there's just so
much downed and broken wire that it's become almost a pure
manpower job.  I don't think NY has actually had high-tension
towers crumple like I saw in TV reports from Quèbec (is that the
correct direction for the accent?), but the situation still
cannot be called pretty, and repair/recovery is slow at best.
There's grumbling around here about why hasn't Pataki called out
the Guard to organize an evacuation of the affected area - I
don't think the people who are grumbling realize (a) how big of a
problem that would be, or (b) how long it would take the Guard to
get such an effort together.

>	I've seen footage of this on the news; Brossard (a suburb of
>Montreal on the south shore of the St-Lawrence) has two honking big CN
>diesels (I think one is a geep although I could be wrong) sitting on the
>street outside the Town Hall.  They hoisted them off the tracks with a
>honking big crane, set them down, and fired them up.  Basically, diesel
>locos are honking great big generators on wheels... the major problem was
>apparently just stepping down the current.

They're probably not geeps - or at least not GP40s - I think
those are not diesel-electric, and if the major problem was
step-down, the implication is that they're diesel-electrics.

>	So basically, if the stuff is at a printer in upstate NY, don't
>wait by the mailbox..:\

- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #18
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Tuesday, January 20 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 019



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

[T98#16] There are no morons here - here's the formula:
Re: Thrusters
Re: KKMs and a couple of short FS memos
Re: Rampart, AHL
Re: Cool Minis
Re: Definitions for infrastructure, trade, and tech level
Re: A few digests of replies
Re: Religion Careers
Re: Religious careers
Re: World "Skills"
Re: Religion Careers
Re: missiles in space
Re: An embarrassing question...I should know this...
Sigh. Still no change at IG...
Re: Missiles
Re: Printing Delays - Missions of State
Re: Missiles
Re: Missiles
RE: What is an MFD

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:42:30 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: [T98#16] There are no morons here - here's the formula:

On Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:31:03 -0500, "Andrew Akins"
<igor@ames.net> wrote

>Ack, its been too long since I had physics. This is a damn *high school*
>level question, but I'm drawing a complete blank. Ack ack ack.

>What would the final velocity of a craft be if it accelerated at .4G for 32
>hours?

By knowing the units involved, you can practically derive this:

distance is in meters (m).

time is in seconds (s).

velocity is in meters per second (m/s).

acceleration is in meters per second per second, or meters per
second-squared (m/s^2)

So, convert all values into the appropriate unit:

1G (acceleration) = 10 m/s^2, so 0.4g = 4 m/s^2

32 hours = (32 * 60 * 60) s

velocity is in units that suggest that it can be computed by
multiplying acceleration by time (v = at).

So, multiply the two numbers:

4 * 32 * 60 * 60 = 128 * 60 * 60 = 128 * 3600 = 64 * 7200
64 * 7200 = 32 * 14400 = 16 * 28800 = 8 * 57600 
8 * 57600 = 4 * 115200 = 2 * 230400 = 460800

The final speed is 460,800 m/s.

(for reference: the speed of light is roughly 300,000,000 m/s.)

- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:03:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Thrusters

On Tue, 20 Jan 1998, Clark Crawford wrote:

> Those equations are
> pretty heavy, though, so I'd rather just use the Andy Slack approach and
> block it out using 3rd person technobabble and a liberal dose of
> ellipses. 
  ^^^^^^^^

That should read, "et-ceteras".

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:17:10 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: KKMs and a couple of short FS memos

 
> >If people start uparmouring missiles, then PD weapons will get heavier.
> >It's an evolutionary thing. Uparmoured missiles are also either slower or
> >bigger and more expensive, and thus more vulnerable to missiles in a
> >counter-missile role.
> 
> Yes but after a bit of up powering PD weapons to pen the armored missile,
> they become more of a major weapons system in power and cost. 
 
But still much cheaper than a whole missile (amortized per missile
killed, the cost will be microscopic, even for a big laser).

> >>3. Bubba is not disposable, it is reusable submunitons carrier. 
 
I had usedthis concept for bay missiles. A 50 ton missile bay
carried a romotely controlled craft that was just and drives and
missiles (and a sensor).

> >Hmmm, you are talking surface damage there ... but I still think either
> >your point defense will stop the warhead or it wont. And if the KKM hits, I
> >think that the effect will be greater than sandpapering the ship's skin.
> 
> I also believe that KKM if they hit will do more than sandpaper the hull.
 
A full on hit with a KKM will kill a battleship---which is why they
carry all those lasers :-) Submunitions turn out to be less nasty
than originally thought as I recall from the beta list (er,
trav-tech :-)

> >>8. Missiles can use a similar tactic that some current AT missiles use like
> >>"Bill" and I think "Tank Breaker" pass nearby(overhead) and fire a warhead
> >>into the target(top).
> >
> >You will need to kill all the vector your bus had built up though ...
> 
> No you would not, neither of the AT missiles have to dump the vector.
 
Huh? they sure do, that or the bus must be moving pretty darn slow.

> If you mix are det nukes in with the *crowd* of KKM stuff which ones does
> the nuc damp focus on?

Good question. That's what damper _screens_ are for.
 
> Hmm PD meson and PD particle accel weapons.....
> 
> Slewing that spinal mount around to bear each and every incoming KKM
> missile...ouch.
 
Make little ones--bay weapons, for example.

> Almost correct, recalc the missiles final built up *velocity* *speed* after
> accel for 30 minutes at 100 G's. It will be a lot faster than you have above.
> 
> I get 3,599 km/s final *velocity* *speed* *range rate*. If it quits accel
> and then travels for another minute the distance it would travel is
> 215,940km, well outside the minimum detection range.
 
v=at
v=100*10*1800/1000=1800km/s

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 00:16:03 +0000
From: David Scott <Snail@dircon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Rampart, AHL

>Is there anyone out there who owns the Azhanti High Lightning supplement?
>If so, would you mind sending me the HG statistics for the ships in that
>supplement? 

2nd ed. HG stats

Fleet Intruder

FI-P4525F3-596500-99N09-6

Tankers & Auxiliaries

TN-P4525F3-566500-55000-0
QC-P4525F3-566500-55000-0

Commercial Service, unarmed

AH-P4525F3-560000-55000-0

Commercial Service, armed

AG-P4525F3-596500-99N09-0

Scout Cruiser

SC-P4525F3-566509-99N40-6

Frontier Cruiser

FI-P4525F3-596920-995N7-6

Small Craft

Rampart RF-128   FF-0106611-000000-40000-0
Rampart RF-128-2 FF-0106611-000000-00003-0
Gunboat          NG-0204411-000000-05000-0
Fuel Shuttle     TY-4202211-000000-00000-0

If you need more please ask.

David

mailto:Snail@dircon.co.uk
http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~snail/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:56:07 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Cool Minis

>Just watch out; those things are *bugger-all* expensive, thanks to the
> fact that they have etched metal parts for all the little wings and
> fiddly bits; very cool, but very expensive to produce (the Yamato is
> something like $10us at my FLGS... too rich for my blood, and I used to
> *love* Space Cruiser Yamato).

Funny, I thought they were a great deal. I guess I know too much
about what a pain it is to sell stuff that is made by a labor
intensive process :-) The DDs are a bunch in a bag for ~$5, so only
the big buggers are like $10.

> If the prices were reasonable, and the detail good, I would be interested
> (especially if they were, say, twice the current scale... more space for
> all the cool fiddly bits, and more room for the scale to allow for
> different sizes for fighters and such).

See I always want to have BBs not be too big. At my scale a
Scout/Courier was, well, small. About 3/8 of an inch long as I
recall. On the other hand it really gives a sense of scale next
to a big ship!

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:47:01 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Definitions for infrastructure, trade, and tech level

At 03:01 PM 1/17/98 +0000, Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK

><<Scott Ellsworth wrote:
>I explain the four tech levels that Earth has gone through in this century
>as some kind of uplift, as otherwise, Traveller numbers are hard to explain.
>:)
>>>
>
>For a while I used the assumption that TL rise was an S-curve with TL 8 in
>the centre, thus...

I have tried this assumption, but too many of my players asked why our
current tech level was so special that I started trying to decide whether
it was.  I finally decided that it really was not.

My current feeling is that either a TL represents a measurable economic
reality, like doubled production, or it represents the average time a lot
of planets took.  As a hack, I am assuming both for my own personal PE rules.

As far as your suggestion of basing all games at TL12, I must say I
approve.  I have been thinking that some tech levels were far less
interesting than others, yet I cannot remember a substantial tech change
that did not feel major to the people of the time.  (I am not a believer in
holes in the tech table.  For that matter, linear projections bother me a
bit :)  )

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:43:57 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: A few digests of replies

On Tue, 20 Jan 1998, Andy Lilly wrote:

 
> Ah, like all those people (certainly in the UK) who are 'nervous' about
> living under high voltage electricity cables because of the effect of their
> EM fields, or those people who claim to be affected by EM from military
> microwave links that pass close to their houses. Then there would be all
> those people who hardly worry at all about past 'wonderful science' such as
> the thalidomide (sp?) pill, or DES, or 3 Mile Island or trans-fatty acids or
> nitrates in food or genetically modified soya or any other of the millions
> of technical wonders that are claimed to be "the future" now, but might be
> found to be severe problems in the future?

Well, at least in the case of thalidomide, this is a classic case of why
you must test systems _as_ delivered, not as prototyped. 

Thalidomide has two optical isomers, one has a marked tranquilizing
effect, the other also has a marked teratogenic effect. The research lab
synthetic pathway produced almost entirely the 'good' version, but was far
too inefficient to produce anything other than the amounts needed for
clinical trials. 

The far more efficient commercial synthesis produced about 50:50...it
still worked as well for its intended purpose, and in fact, since
isolation of optically pure isomers at that point in time still consisted
of sorting pure crystals under a microscope (!) it was not known at the
time why the stuff 'suddenly' turned teratogenic.

It wasn't until the late 80's, early 90's when chromatographic materials
that could separate optical isomers became available that the mystery was
competely solved. Of course, thalidomide, which is a very effective
therapeutic agent for a variety of conditions, such as leprosy and certain
symptoms of AIDS is such 'EVIL' stuff that no one will use it. The fact
that the only places it is being used, like Brazil, lack any reasonable
controls to make sure pregnant women (the ONLY group who shouldn't take
it) don't get it, and the resultant thalidomide babies scare everyone so
it doesn't get used.

A similar thing happened some years back with L-Tryptophan. It became a
very popular dietary supplement because of a number of alleged
therapeutical benefits (mostly as a sleeping aid...high concentrations of
the stuff in turkey is the proposed reason for the post Thanksgiving
dinner coma experienced by so many here in the US), but soon it became
apparent that it might be severely toxic, since some people were getting
sick and dying from taking it.

The FDA immediately banned it. Later research discovered that a new
manufacturing process by one company resulted in a product that had a
trace of some very toxic substance in it. They modified their process to
eliminate the toxic stuff, and the resulting stuff was fine. Of course the
FDA still banned it.

Hell we've proven that cyclamates are  less toxic than any of the
substitutes (saccharin, Equal) we have now, and the studies showing that
it caused cancer in rats were a direct consequence of the huge dosages,
but it's still banned here in the US.

But hey! it was bad once so we should never use it again! Of course, the
same can be said for fire (in fact, fire is one of the most dangerous
things mankind has ever discovered) and somehow we still manage to
continue using that.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:48:28 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

In mail you write:

>> Monsignors (and Metropolitans, and a few other such things) are "ranks"
>> above priest and below bishop.
>
> Metropolitans?  Do tell.  Time to do a little research.

I recall the title from some reading, can't come up with details.

>> No, they are a seperate and somewhat parallel system. Monks (and Nuns)
>> are in some ways a similar rank to priest. The Abbot/Mother Superior
>> are somewhat similar to a bishop. And the head of the order is up there
>> with the cardinals.
>
> Are there titles other than "brother" and "sister"?

Not that I can think of. I think it basicly has you being a novice when
you join and until they are sure that you are ready to take the vows of
the order. Once you take the vows, you are a brother or sister. Each
"chapter" has a Abbot/Abbes (or sometimes for nuns "Mother Superior" in
charge. A chapter is basicly a single "community" (ie a single convent
or monastery). There are some other rankings *above* that that I'm not
real sure about culminating with someone at the Vatican who is
responsible for the entire order.

BTW, many *priests* are organized similarly. For example, the
Fransciscans, the Dominicans, and the Jesuits. The Jesuits make an
interesting example, as their founder was a former soldier and
organized them in a somewhat military manner. The head Jesuit is the
Father General.

Oh yeah, for all I know, *all* Catholic priests are organized into
orders, but I can't swear to it.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:30:08 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Religious careers

Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> wrote:


>There's some flexibility
>in this, of course, and the number of ranks required differs according
>to the purpose and organisation of the organisation (an ugly sentence,
>I can't think of any synonyms).

How about arangement or heirarchy or structure or TO (altho' I'm not sure
what that stands for, perhaps one of our retired (or current) military
members will tell us as in TO).

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:47:58 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: World "Skills"

Robert Eaglestone <eaglesto@nortel.ca> wrote:


>Gentle Travellers,
>
>I was musing over characteristic improvement in PCs, and it
>hit me all at once... The Solution to world tech levels!
>The final, consistently wonderful conclusion!
>
>Ok, say we've got a world at TL6, but in medical sciences
>it's two TL's higher.  Others have figured a multiple tech
>rating, one for each major science.  This morning, I have
>thought of something cognate to character skill levels.
>
>Thus, my TL6 world might be:
>
>Egvinus        0102 C876543-6 S  Ni Ag Med+2 821
>
>...indicating that the world is at medical TL-8.
>
>Since the trade classifier section is already tight, this should
>only be used when absolutely necessary.
>
>Implication: if the medical TL is dependent on the overall TL as
>shown above, then a drop in overall TL will affect medical TL
>unless precautions were taken.
>
>Whaddaya think?
>
>Rob

You just about can't have an increase in one area of technology without
improvements in others.  Do you know what a dewar flask is (Thermos is
famous for manufacturing them.)?  Do they have anything to do with medical
technology?  How about refrigerators?  How about pressure suits?  How
about...

I could go on, but the three items I did mention are direct results of
medical research.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:58:34 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

Greg Smith <montecristo@hotmail.com> writes:

>
>From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
>
>"Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> writes:
>
><<For example, some* of the gray-haired parishioners at my Anglican
>church complain about any hymn that doesn't have organ music; they want
>_traditional_ hymns.  When I point out that organs were an innovation of
>the mid-19th century, that before that most Anglican churches had bands
>playing whatever instruments they had,....>>
>
>
>Most churches usually didn't have music beyond voices...  A cappella was
>the way it was done...  Instrumentation is like you said a relatively
>recent addition to the worship services....

Interesting phrase "a capella" (both spellings are correct).  Like most
musical terms, it is from Italian and the original meaning was in the manner
of the chapel.  That's right like church music, no instruments.  I'm tempted
to ask who changed it and point out that it wasn't God, but this is not the
right place to open that can of worms.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:36:17 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: missiles in space

I wrote:


>>If I was Emperor, I would decree, "All missiles must have a self destruct
>>mechanism which is triggered within an hour of drive failure."

Anders Backman replied:

>No way - then I have to scratch my "loose homing missile" random encounter
>on my ship encounter tables for systems who saw action during 5:th frontier
>war.

Not really, do you obey all the laws of your land?  (I do, but I'm unusually
pious and lawful.)  I don't know of anyone who doesn't at least bend them
from time to time.

Besides, if they are left-overs from the 5th Frontier War...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:36:47 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: An embarrassing question...I should know this...

Andrew Akins <igor@ames.net> wrote:


>Ack, its been too long since I had physics. This is a damn *high school*
>level question, but I'm drawing a complete blank. Ack ack ack.
>
>What would the final velocity of a craft be if it accelerated at .4G for 32
>hours?

Let's see that's: E = M C^2 where E is the...

No, that's a little more advanced than you were looking for isn't it.  :-)

If you have T4 book 1 look up chapter 9 (SPACE TRAVEL) starting on p 115.

If you are going to accelerate half way there and decelerate the rest of the
way in,
T = SQR(D/A)
D = A/4 x T^2
A = 4D/T^2
Where T is the time travelled, D is the distance travelled and A is the
acceleration.

The above quoted formula are different from the high school physics texts.
The question you asked actually requires the HSPT formula.  The one in
question is D = AT (it's always the easy ones that get me too).  So...

..4g in Traveller is 4 m/s/s and 32 hours = 32 hours x 60 minutes/hour x 60
seconds/minute = 115,200 seconds.  Multiply those together and you get 4
m/s/s x 115,200 s = 460,800 m/s.  Wow, you are really cooking.  460,800 m/s
x 3,600 s/h / 1000 m/km = 1,628,880 km/h.

For a second there I thought that you might need the earlier formula, but
then I remembered the speed of light is c. 1,080,000,000 km/h.  Still, 5.429
light seconds per hour is not bad for a day and a third's work.  You would
be covering an astronomical unit in just over 92 hours.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:29:46 EST
From: FKiesche <FKiesche@aol.com>
Subject: Sigh. Still no change at IG...

Greetings:

After exchanging e-mail and a fax, as well as a few phone calls, I received a
message from IG that I would receive "Emp's Vehicles" and "Naval Architect" as
replacements for my orders for Citizens of the Imperium and the canceled
Journal subscription.

Time passes...nothing happens...

You know, any other company that did this, I would think was in deep financial
trouble. Add in those who seem not to have been paid for various tasks, and I
really see a company in deep financial trouble. A company that is in trouble
can keep producing goods...until the printers realize that they aren't being
paid either. It will be interesting to see when the product line gets delayed
and delayed and delayed...oops! Hey, they are already doing that, aren't they.

Fred Kiesche
(FKiesche@aol.com)
(utterly digusted with the management of Imperium Games at this point and at
Far Future Enterprises for allowing them to ruin a great game...)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:41:45 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Missiles

In mail you write:

> Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:51:17 -0800, bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
>>The consensus was that any reasonably point defence system - or even
>>a single civilian laser turret - can guarantee a hit on such a missile
>>well before it impacts
>
> Why can't you just give them a mirror finish?

Weapons grade lasers turn a "mirror finish" to junk. While we can get
99.9% (I think) reflectivity on things like telescope mirrors, you
can't put that on a missile, partly because of expense, and partly
because it won't *stay* that reflective in the sort of environment a
missile is stored and launched in. 

So if you have a 99% reflective (damn good!) mirror coating, that means
that 1% of the pulse is still absorbed. Which is enough to turn the
coating into high temp plasma. And in the process, ruin the coating for
some distance around the point the laser pulse hit. 

Ask the folks who work with mere kilojoule pulse lasers what happens to
their mirrors if a dust speck gets on them. :-)

With Traveller's megajoul to gigajoule pulses, mirroring isn't worth
the cost it adds.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:38:29 -0600
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>
Subject: Re: Printing Delays - Missions of State

Andrew wrote:

>
>Roderick,
>
>> >There is a five-county
>> >area in upstate New York that has been declared a disaster area
>> >because of the recent (and possibly still ongoing) ice storm
>> >conditions that have so drastically affected that area, plus New
>> >England and Qu»bec.  Many utilities are completely out of
>> >service; a state of emergency has been declared.  As a result,
>> >there have been (and will continue to be, in the near term)
>> >difficulties in printing this item, which I am told _is_ in the
>> >printer's hands.
>>
>>  So basically, if the stuff is at a printer in upstate NY, don't
>> wait by the mailbox..:\
>
>On Friday IG assured me MoS would ship this week. You're not suggesting they
>*lied* to me, are you?

	Well, the printers may be hooked back into the grid by now.  Then
again, Montreal kind of had a severe power shortage this afternoon; the
East End lost power, the subway system didn't have enough amperage
available to run trins, and street and stop lights were turned off to save
juice.  Rush hour was likely a nightmare; I took a train home rather than
face the buses.

	So, maybe :\.  I couldn't tell.  The local media are paying a lot
more attention to the local situation rather than what's happening
stateside.

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:38:17 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Missiles

In mail you write:

>> In mail you write:
> Why would it be like pulling up yourself? You are generating a third 
> force, that is unconnected to the generating vessel, using x amount 
> of power. You then use y amount of power to use that force to move 
> your self. Alternitivaly, you could use the gravity well to fall 
> into. If you cause a curvature of spacetime, that curvature should 
> have every effect of every other cuverature in existance. I do not 
> see where an artificaly generated one would not work like every 
> other one in existance. After all, we are _not_ speaking of using 
> the ships own well to push off of (but that should also work.. I 
> doubt that the natural well would give enough of a push to really do 
> anything, tho..)

The problem is that you are generating the "well" *from* the ship.
Therefore, it is *attached* to it, and what you are tring is no
different than the old idea of throwing a big magnet ahead of your ship
to pull it along.

> If by generating that force, you invalidate it for your own use, 
> well... I have _never_ seen any thing that would validate that 
> arugment.. But then again.. Inertial Dampers are pretty way out there 
> :)

Again, unless the generator is *independent* of the vessel, it'll work
just like the magnet idea above. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:21:16 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Missiles

In mail you write:

> How long were you letting the missiles accel, over what distance?
>
> I tend to doubt the ability of such a PD system to effectively stop such a
> missile swarm at such accelerations?
>
> A what if then, could it stop 50 missiles at 30 G's accel for one hour each
> dispensing 1000 ultradense 10mm balls?

One suggested design was the "nuclear shotgun". You take a nuke
designed to maximize the x-ray output and use various known tricks
(like grazing incidence mirrors) to redirect the radiation into a
forward pointing cone. Then, in front of that you put something
material that is good at absorbing the xrays, but also converts easily
to a plasma. In front of that' you put your "shot".

Thus, the bomb goes off, the xrays move out at lightspeed, bounce
around a bit and hit the "coupler" material (I'm told styrofoam works
well!) well before the physical pieces of the bomb. The coupler flashes
into vapor and imparts most of the bomb's energy to the shot. 

The idea was posted on rec.arts.sf.science. And it was thought to be
able to give fractional c velocities to the "shot". 

If you don't want the players to have nukes, you could get the same
effect (I think) if you could accurately focus an X-ray laser pulse on
the back of a properly designed warhead. 

So you launch a bunch of missiles, and when they get close enough, they
seperate the warheads, and they do *something* to make their backside
extra visible to you. Meanwhile, they are keeping their front ends
aimed at the target. Zap the missile and it fires the near-c
projectiles at the target. 

This *might* work better than just using the laser against the target
given a situation where the missiles (at "close" range" can get a
better lock than the ship (at long range). After all, they can easily
*make* themselves easy to target for the firing vessel and still be
hard to target for the target vessel.

It also let's you get a bunch of warheads spaced "around" the target
and then zap them all in quick sequence. That could give point defense
several *thousand* targets to deal with. 
- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:48:51 -0600
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: RE: What is an MFD

At 04:47 PM 1/20/98 -0600, Joul, Christopher wrote:
>I wrote:-
>
>>>What is an MFD?
>>>
>>>I know it stands for Master Fire Director, and it is used to group
>>>Turrets into Batteries, and control Missiles.
>
>Sam Thomas  wrote
>
>>Actually a closer term/name for it would be Fire Direction Center(FDC).
>It
>>is in no way the *Master* fire director for the ship. A ship would have
>>only one *Master* Fire Direction Center for the entire ship.
>
>but it is the term used in SSDS and FFS.

Ok coming right back at you, But is not what CSC, MT, CT say. So there 3 to
2 infavor of a non MFD. <G> 

Ok now that is out of my system. 

It is in SSDS due to it was *kludged* from FFS1 in the mad scramble to put
out some ship building rules for T4.

It is in FFS2 because it was in FFS1, there was not enough time to
*complete* job on FFS2.

>>>But what does it consist of, and why is it so expensive?
>
>>Well a FDC should have some form of data computer(but not the ENIAC sized
>>ones listed), sensor data inputs, interior communications links, some type
>>of control/management console, and control links to the weapons dedicated
>>to the FDC. It would be a coordinator of all weapons under it control,
>>controlling target management and engagement there of.
>
>Very little of which is affected by range (300kkm FDC is 10 times the
>volume and cost of a 30kkm FDC).

Range should not have any effect, but the original request was for what is
in a *MFD*. A weapons range should be determined by its ability to deliver
the *package* to the desired target and the ability of the sensors to
detect a target at that range.

>> If it was being used
>>for Semi Active missiles or terminally guided missiles an illuminator
>would
>>also be needed. An Illuminator would be some type of active sensor
>>configured to project a tight cone or pencil beam of sensor radiations.
>>Other types of missiles would require some type of a communicator to
>send
>>commands to the missile(s), either tight beam or broadcast.
>
>OK, I can understand how range affects these components (though not a 10
>fold incresase).

See the above for the effects of range on *MFD*'s.

><cut explanation of  *Master* Fire Direction Center>
>
>>Yes I agree, the cost a *too* high for what they can do.
>
>It feels good to not be the only one.

Just remember one thing though you and I are "Not the one". <G> A
paraphrase from a being in Babylon 5.
- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #19
*********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Tuesday, January 20 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 020



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: [T98#14] Off-Topic - Ice Crisis in Eastern North America
Re: Militias, Missiles, Nukes and Interstellar Economics
Re: Guns of the Wild West
Swashbuckling on Saurus
Re: Missles
Re: More nukes
Re: Darrians
Re: Religion careers
Re: Religious careers
Table of Ranks - Long (Was - Re: Religion Careers)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:54:08 -0600
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>
Subject: Re: [T98#14] Off-Topic - Ice Crisis in Eastern North America

Jeff Zeitlin wrote:

[snip]
>I know someone with family in the affected area of NYS.  When
>someone mentioned the lack of looting in the area to him, he said
>"I have no difficulty believing this at all - the would-be
>looters are probably too busy trying to stay alive and warm to be
>out looting."
>


	There's been relatively little trouble of that sort here too;
generator thefts are skyrocketing, and domestic violence is up, but the
overall crime rate is down 60% or so.  I think it's due partly to the cold
but also to the fact that everyone remembers what happened the last time
the Canadian Forces took civilians prisoner :/.


>As far as understatement goes, I don't think the English language
>contains vocabulary sufficient to describe just how much being in
>that part of the world sucks - and my French is worse than
>non-existent, so I can't say whether it has the vocabulary,
>either.  When the weather is nice, and everything works, it's a
>lovely area - but right now, I'm glad I'm in the Metropolitan
>Rotten Apple.
>


	Well, actually, it could be worse.  I don't think it's a disaster
so much as it is an inconvenience of insanely huge proportions.  Aside from
trees, the hydro grid, and loss of livestock, property damage has been
pretty darn minimal.  It's not like there was an earthquake or anything;
people got frozen out, went to public shelters or moved in with friends or
family, waited until the power came on, and went home.  Still, I agree;
it's real nice having power and not having to worry about running out of
firewood.


>Pretty much the same.  Niagara-Mohawk is busy trying to restore
>power, and Consolidated Edison of New York is helping, as is the
>Power Authority of the State of New York - but there's just so
>much downed and broken wire that it's become almost a pure
>manpower job.

	It's the same here.  Hydro has the Forces doing the gruntwork of
demolishing towers, cutting branches, removing damaged equipment, recycling
cable, and so forth, while the Hydro crew concentrate on the actual
reconstruction work.



>I don't think NY has actually had high-tension
>towers crumple like I saw in TV reports from QuËbec (is that the
>correct direction for the accent?),


	If it was rising from left to right, yes, although the correct
spelling in English doesn't require the accent.  As far as the towers go,
yup... a couple of hundred of the things went.  In some areas they pulled
each other down one after the other like dominoes.  Pretty scary.


[snip]
>
>They're probably not geeps - or at least not GP40s - I think
>those are not diesel-electric, and if the major problem was
>step-down, the implication is that they're diesel-electrics.


	Actually, I think they might be SD40's.  Again, I could be wrong.
I'm basing myself off of silhouettes from "N-Scale Model Railroading" :).

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:54:01 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Militias, Missiles, Nukes and Interstellar Economics

In mail you write:

>
> On Sun, 18 Jan 1998, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>  
>> There are still sailing ships cruising the oceans. And some *aren't*
>> merely personal "toys". Some actually manage a marginal existence in
>> out of the way places. And they do visit the regular ports from time to
>> time. The Imperium may have similar "obsolete" tramp freighters.
>
> There is still a significant amount of trade carried out in the Indian
> Ocean on dhows, small <murphl>-rigged (big triangular sail) single mast
> sailing ships. Many have been motorized, but still rely on sail a lot,
> depending on how reliable the engine is. They are still built the same way
> they were in the 1200's.

I think that's a lateen rig.

> Also don't forget outfits like "Barefoot Cruises" They and a number of
> operators like them run three masters around the Caribbean, carrying
> tourists around in 18th century style. (with modern wet bars, galleys and
> facilities, of course)

Which is another possible venue for a ship so old that it has to coast
rather than thrust all the way to the 100 diameter limit. "Experience
free-fall, just like the ancient astronauts." I expect that you *could*
sell cruises on such a ship, even if it was a modern design *based* on
the old ships.

> I agree with Leonard, there will always be a scattering of truly ancient
> designs floating about. 

And if you are starting a game, and nobody got a Ship benefit, but they
have a modest amount of money and lots of engineering skills (plus some
legal ones) you might just have them hear about the "orbital junkyard"
where lots of older ships are stashed until someone feels like
salvaging or scrapping them.  And they can decide to tinker one back
into working order. :-)

I'm not sure that a solar sail type ship would be compatible with jump
drive. But if it was, that'd be a *really* interesting ship. And even
if it wasn't, they'd be *very* competetive in a system with several
worlds with decent sized populations. 

Old chemical rockets are apt to be a *very* niche market. Though I bet
that oxy-hydrogen rockets would be popular in the outer planets and
outer belts, because it's *so* easy to convert ice into fuel. 

Fission power plants may be popular in such places as well. If you are
processing nickel iron asteriods on any sort of large scale, you'll
have *tons" of "trace" components like gold and uranium. Heck, if they
build fission plants in the belt, I'd not be surprised to see gold
being used as shielding!

There are several "low tech" approaches to fission powerplants that'd
be workable for belters. Just use *lots* of rock for shielding. Given
the low gravity, "China syndrome" is *not* a worry. In fact, if you
place the reactor at the center of the asteroid, there's no place for
it to go. And you'd probably want to use designs that have a low
reaction rate *unless* the moderator is being circulated. (ie if the
coolant gets too hot, it slows down the reaction). 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:14:09 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Guns of the Wild West

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote:
>
>>If anybody needs it to freak out their characters, I've got a
>>description of *exactly* how one produces saltpeter. It'll gross out a
>>lot of people.
>
> Is that where you leach guano?  Why don't you post it, I'm sure it would be
> good for a laugh.  Especially the reactions.

Not guano. That's *far* too uncommon....

>>The other steps in producing powder are fairly simple, though not
>>always what you'd expect.
>>
>>But there are several places where many a character is going to say
>>"You want me to do *what*?!"
>
> Don't they always?

From: tip@lead.aichem.arizona.edu (Tom Perigrin)
Newsgroups: alt.engr.explosives,rec.pyrotechnics,rec.org.sca
Subject: Potassium Nitrate... no problem
Date: 2 Nov 1994 18:44:18 GMT
Organization: AI in Chem Lab


A lot of people seem to have problem getting KNO3 to make home-made black
powder.   Well, if you are really desperate, it's not that hard to make...
This recipie is from Birringucchio, Pyrotechnia, 1540.  It was used
"commercially" as recently as the US Civil War when the Union blockade of
the South prevented shipments of Chilean Saltpeter from getting into port.
  I've done this for a historical recreation event... it's "fun", but a bit
messy and some people find it to be a tad distasteful.

Find old horse manure, the kind that has sat under shelter, and has little
white threads on the surface.   If you can't find horsemanure, just take
your own manure and let it ferment under cover for a few months.   Also,
take urine and let it set out until it is good and fermented.  Get some
hardwood ashes and lime.

Get a 50 gallon drum or barrel, and punch a hole in the bottom.  Put a cork
in the hole. Now line the bottom with cloth.  Then add 2" of manure, 1.5"
of ashes, and 1" of lime.  Repeat until you are near the top.  Now pour in
the fermented urine.  Let it all stand for a few days.  At this point it
has a particular amusing odor.  Then drain off and collect the liquid from
the bottom hole.   Pour in some more fermented urine, and repeat.  Now wash
it with clean water until the water coming out isn't brown or yellow
anymore and doesn't taste bitter to the tounge.

Boil the collected liquids down until they just start to throw crystals
while hot, and then add a enough hot water to double the volume and let
cool.  You might want to stand UPWIND while boiling this down.   You will
get almost 10 pounds of crystals of KNO3, with a bit of NaNO3 and NaCl
admixed, various brown and yellow contaminants, and some detritus too.
Recrystalize once or twice from clean water to get fairly pure pale yellow
KNO3.

From 100 pounds of horse or people manure and 75 gallons of fermented urine
you can get from 2 to 5 pounds of KNO3, depending on a number of factors.

You might want to do some of this outdoors.


- -------.sig--------

I don't know where the return address  tip@lead.tmc.edu   comes from...
Something messes up the right address which is  tip@lead.aichem.arizona.edu
Sorry

From: tip@lead.aichem.arizona.edu (Tom Perigrin)
Newsgroups: alt.engr.explosives,rec.pyrotechnics,rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Potassium Nitrate... no problem
Date: 3 Nov 1994 22:53:42 GMT
Organization: AI in Chem Lab

In article <399hi3$8ri@cville-srv.wam.umd.edu>, ghori@wam.umd.edu (The Evil
One) wrote:
>
> Tom Perigrin (tip@lead.aichem.arizona.edu) wrote:
>
[article about extract KNO3 from horse manure deleted]

>
> 	Are you serious? Only a REALLY desperate person would resort to such
> 	a method of getting the stuff. Have you tried it?


Yes.  Not because I was desperate to get KNO3 (I was a chem graduate
student at the time), but because I wanted to recreate some of the more
authentic sights, sounds, and smells of the 16'th C for Northern California
Rennaisence Faire.

Renn Faires (and festiavals, and the SCA) are all way TOO clean and
sanitized... no dead animals in streets, no pisspots emptied out of second
story windows, the meat isn't nearly rotten enough, etc..

It was amusing to watch the modern 20'th C person's reaction as I told them
what I was doing...   when it finally completely dawned on them that I was
stirring a bucket of SHIT, they often went a delicate green.   I could then
play with their reactions, and discuss the other unsundry realities of life
in the 16'th C with them.  Or, they would leave.

- -------.sig--------

I don't know where the return address  tip@lead.tmc.edu   comes from...
Something messes up the right address which is  tip@lead.aichem.arizona.edu
Sorry

From: tip@lead.tmc.edu (Tom Perigrin)
Newsgroups: alt.engr.explosives,rec.pyrotechnics,rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Potassium Nitrate... no problem
Date: 6 Nov 1994 06:00:58 GMT
Organization: A.I. Chem Lab, University of Arizona

In article <39eblf$ep4@sun001.dsccc.com> jmccarty@spd.dsccc.com
 (Mike McCarty) writes:

>Oh, I think he just mis-posted. It was actually destined for
>rec.humor.funny, but got here instead. Particularly interesting was the
>instruction to continue to wash the boiled rotten piss and shit until
>the liquid coming off was no longer bitter to the taste.

Actually, it's all true.  Birringuchio's book, Pyrotechnia, is available
in reprint from Dover books, and is a good book to buy for historical
pespectives...  Actually, I left out the most interesting part...  in
Birringuchio, the recipie says to leach until it no longer tastes bitter
to YOUR APPRENTICE.  [caps mine].

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jan 1998 20:43 EST
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Swashbuckling on Saurus

The PCs in my game are going to spend some time swashbuckling.
Therefore, they need some guidelines for ship operations.  So
without further ado, here is the

Swashbuckler's Guide

I. Ship designs

1. Longboats
   Lengths = 3-5 (no sail), 10-50 meters
   Crew    = 2 Rower/Marines per meter; 4 Sailors.
   Speed   = 20/45m per round; 30/140km per day
   Hull    = 10 points per meter length
   Load    = 50 kg per meter length

   This is a coastal raiding vessel only, not made for commerce.  It
   handles the open sea well, and its shallow draft allows shore landings.
   It cannot support cannon, ballista, or ram.

   Since practically everyone on board remains seated in their
   rowing position and cannot move around, long trips produce very
   sore raiders.

   The 3-meter to 5-meter versions are for all practical purposes canoes
   or lifeboats.

2. Galleys
   Lengths = 50-150 meters
   Crew    = 10 Rowers + 10 Rowers per 10m;
             5 Sailors + 1 Sailor per 10m; 
             5 Marines + 3 Marines per 10m
   Speeds  = 30/140m per round; 25/45km per day  (50m-90m)
             30/100m per round; 25/35km per day  (100m-150m)
   Hull    = 300 points + 2 points per meter length
   Load    = 10 kg per meter length

   These beasties are coastal trading ships or warships.  Though 
   strong enough to handle the high seas, they are susceptible to
   destruction in severe weather.

   A galley can be designed to be a war galley.  War galleys have
   the following stats:

      Crew  = 20 Rowers per 10m;  2 Sailors per 10m; 5 Marines per 10m
      Speed = 25/100m per round; 20/35km per day (50m-90m)
              20/90m per round;  15/30km per day (100m-150m)
      Hull  = 450 points + 2 points per meter length
      Load  = 15 kg per meter length

   Per each 100 hull points, the galley may carry one cannon or
   two ballista.  The ship may be equipped with a ram.

3. Sailing Ships
   Lengths  = 10-100 meters
   Crew     = 2 Sailors per 10m; 5 Marines per 10m
   Speeds   = 100m per round; 35km per day (10m-30m, 70m-100m)
              140m per round; 45km per day (40m-60m)
   Hull     = 10 points per meter length
   Load     = 100 kg per meter length

   Built for the high seas, the sailing ship can withstand violent
   storms and long voyages with ease.  

   Per each 100 hull points, the sailing ship may carry one cannon
   or two ballista.  The ship may be equipped with a ram.


II. Ship combat

1. Sighting

Maximum visibility for land is about 40 kilometers; for another ship,
300 meters.

Evasion is maneuvering the ship out of sight of another ship for the day.
The difference in speed between the two vessels dictates the ease
in evasion:

Difference in speed		Evasion
- -------------------             ---------
0-10m/round slower		Average
11-20m/round slower		Difficult
21-30m/round slower		Formidable
31-40m/round slower		Staggering
41m+ slower			Impossible
faster				Easy

2. Combat

A weapons hit is a function of distance, given by the Traveller
range bands (0 to 300m).

Weapon	Crew	Reload  Damage:
        to      time    Shot	Pitch	Crew	Weapon
        Operate
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cannon	 4	4	2d6x7	4d6	2d6-5	Snake Eyes
Ballista 4	2	2d6x3	2d6	2d6-10	n/a
Ram	 		one to two thirds the hull points of attacker

Notes:
* Fewer crew may operate the weapons, at a corresponding time penalty.
* Pitch burns the ship decks, and spreads by d6 each turn; i.e. in its
  second turn pitch from a cannon will do 5d6 burning damage to the
  ship.  4 men can put out d6 of burning pitch in one turn.
* Grappling is a Difficult task; but if both ships want to grapple
  then it is automatic.  After grappling, the two groups conduct
  melee combat as usual.
* Repairs up to half of the damage received may be made: 1 hull point
  per crew assigned per turn.
* Ships receiving damage equal to half their hull points move at half
  speed; damage equal to 3/4 their hull points reduces movement
  by half again, and so on.


Well, that's what I've got so far.  Any suggestions?

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:35:50 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Missles

Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:41:45 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard
Erickson)
>> Why can't you just give them a mirror finish?

>So if you have a 99% reflective (damn good!) mirror coating, that means
>that 1% of the pulse is still absorbed. Which is enough to turn the
>coating into high temp plasma. And in the process, ruin the coating for
>some distance around the point the laser pulse hit.

So to destroy the missle you have to to get a hit on the same
spot twice.  And if it is designed to slough off that 1%
ablitively into space, then it the spot won't be any bigger
than the laster beam.  It might be enough to get a missle through.

Though it really doen't strain realitiy to thing that at
TL 12 perfect mirror finishes would be possible.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:04:09 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: More nukes

In mail you write:

>>What good does the nuke damper do? It only suppresses reactyions
>>*while* it is aimed at something. And if you had it set for enhance
>>mode, the resulting blast would get the inspector chewed out.
>
> I think we have different interpreations on how nuke dampers work.
>
> I am working out of Stiker mod 1 book 2, particularily rule 40E "Radiation
> suppression : Another use of nuclear dampers is to eliminate the
> contamination created by a nuclear weapon detonation. Instead of performing
> it's usual missions, a damper may be assigned to eliminate the radiation
> from one nuclear strike per fire phase. Both the crater and the area of
> induced radiation are rendered permanently harmless."
>
> My read on this is that Nuke Dampers can, as well as temporarily
> suppressing nuclear ractions, make radiactive material permanently inert.
>
> This is one of the things that makes fighting a TL12 navy with more
> primitive technology A Real Bitch.

The way to permanently remove the radiation is to *speed up* decay. And
doing that on *fissionables*, rather than "fallout" or "waste" while
result in a *huge* explosion (several times the normal yeild).

There's no other way that dampers, given their description *can*
permanently neutralize radioactivity.

So when using them to clean up after a nuke strike, figure that there
will be a large "flash" of radiation as all the decay happens at once.

>>And what about my "Old Trader" that's got a fission powerplant and
>>NERVA type rocket propulsion? :-)
>
> Thats why they ask you "anything to declare ?" and give you a foot-thick
> stack of paperwork when you say "Yeah, a 50 MW fission plant and a 200 kN
> NERVA drive".
>
> Also, could you post the design for the Old Trader. I want to build one
> with FFS2, but if you've already don the work, great :)

Nope, I haven't done the work, as I don't have a copy of FF&S 2.

> <more Shadow, and my stuff deleted>
>>Nope. Not at all. For one thing Uranium has uses other than using it in
>>reactors or bombs. For one, it's one of the few *decent* yellow glazes
>>for ceramics. It gives a good orange, too. 
>
> *shrug* so they find a different yellow. Not something I'd weight that
> heavily against security issues.

Not that easy. The problem is that as far as I know, it's prett much
the only "yellow yellow". The others are some weird shades that people
aren't all that likely to like.

>>Anybody building a bomb *wouldn't* be getting their fissionables from a
>>reactor. It's actually *easier* to refine fissionables from *ore* than
>>from used fuel elements. The ore isn't nearly as radioactive and
>>doesn't have all those *very* radioactive fission by-products in it. 
>
> What about plutonium breeder reactors ? My take is a PBR is a TL8+ fission
> plant. But I'm not a nuke expert, so I'm probably wrong.

Breeder reactors are a special design. They are actually only worth the
trouble if you want to build a stockpile of weapons, or if you don't
have fusion, and are running low on fissionables. 

Their advantage is that you can *chemically* seperate the Pu. But you
still have to deal with the *highly* radioactive used fuel rods. 

Most reactor designs that you'd design for the purpose of produciung
power are *lousy* at making Pu. It's just that most US and Soviet
reactor designs are based on reactors designed for the express
*purpose* of producing Pu. Other designs, such as the Canadian CANDU
reactors are much safer and don't produce Pu.

>>> I believe that it would be a subtle process, concentrating firstly on
>>> fission plants that use Imperial starports - essentially you have tougher
>>> safety inspections on them (maybe Hard vs average of Admin and 
> Engineering)
>>> than apply to fusion powerplants.
>>>
>>> The Imperium may also apply special taxes and onerous paperwork on
>>> fissionables - you would probably have to document where every gram of
>>> production went, complete with end user certificates and so on.
>>
>>Why? No offense, but *ships* are more dangerous than nukes. And most of
>>the uses for uranium and thorium are such that the type of controls you
>>are talking about would be ludicrous.
>>
>>Do you notice that sort of control on sales of fuel oil or fertilizer?
>>Then the Imperium won't have them on "ordinary" uranium and thorium. 
>
> Can you turn a TL9+ fusion poweplant into a bomb ? I know you cant with a
> modern fission plant. A ship trying to do the Frac C rock thing would (IMO)
> get blown up by planetary defense forces sent on an intercept course.

It just has to start into a landing trajectory from "near" orbit, then
switch on the drive and do a suicide run. Odds of destroying it in time
are slim. And it'd do quite well as a city buster. Remember, Meteor
Crater in Arizona was created by a *house sized* rock not moving more
than 10 km/sec or so. Which isn't that far from orbital velocity. At
that speed, from a 200 km orbit, it's *20 seconds* to impact. 

If the ship chooses to boost all the way to the ground, it *shortens*
that time. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:20:10 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Darrians

In mail you write:

>> I don't think they triggered a nova. Just some major solar flares. I could
>> be wrong as I'm also doing this from memory. It seems to me that their
>> central star couldn't continue to exist after going nova, though, right?

>  As far as I know, it would continue to exist; a star could go nova more 
> than once, it's not a destructive process (opposite to supernova). 
> Anyway, I suppose that the planets orbiting that star would be devastated 
> (if not physically destroyed) by such a phenomenon, so I prefer the 
> "major solar flares" explanation (and the Darrians too, I think ;-)).

Also, we are now fairly sure that novas *require* a close binary
system, with one of the stars being a white dwarf (though a neutron
star might work too). 

They have to be close enough for material given off by the "normal"
star to get sucked in by the white dwarf. In *massive* quantities. When
enough material accumulates the pressure on the lower layers causes a
fusion reaction. In short the accumulated hydrogen and whatnot
detonates in a fusion blast that covers the entire surface of the
dwarf. 

This cycle can repeat at regular intervals for a long time. 

If too much material accumulates too fast, the blast will cause a
Supernova. That destroys the dwarf. The other type of Supernova is when
a massive star fuses clear down until it produces iron. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:29:38 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Religion careers

In mail you write:

> On Fri, 16 Jan 98 17:00:44 eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch) responded:
>>Just like there are all kinds of religious/political/cultural beliefs on
>>Earth today there should be all kinds of beliefs scattered across Known
>>Space.  A lot of the fun of Traveller is putting the PC's in *different*
>>environments and having them react. These different environments don't
>>always have to be physical environments, either. Plop your Politically
>>Correct PC's in a Gorish Tech 0 world (personally yuck, but that would
>>*certainly* be different), in a world where atheism is the rigoriously
>>enforced belief system, in a world where males are the subserviant gender,
>>in a world that requires that all citizens to be *truely* gender neutral,
>>in a world where cannibalism is part of the religion, in a world where
>>euthenasia...you get the idea.
>
> Sure you guys wouldn't like to be helping write entries for 101 Religions?!
> Some good thoughts there.

A note on the "cannibalism" bit. Don't forget that *technically* that
describes many Christian sects. Remember what Communion is supposed to be.

But for more shock value, a quite civilized society could have
cannibalism without too much trouble. Say as part of the funeral rites.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 20:52:04 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Religious careers

Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:

> I think you're in danger of making the same mistake that was originally
> made with military and noble ranks (IMO, of course). An organisation of
> a given size requires a given number of ranks. There's some flexibility
> in this, of course, and the number of ranks required differs according
> to the purpose and organisation of the organisation (an ugly sentence,
> I can't think of any synonyms). Anyway, when you want to 'translate' an
> organisation that you know from Earth into interstellar equivalents, you
> can't just take the same table of ranks and, say, multiply their area
> of responsibility by some order of magnitude. If it takes 10 officer
> ranks to manage a national fleet on Earth today, you may, by stretching
> things a bit here and there, manage to get away with 10 ranks for a
> planetary navy. But you cannot, IMO, get away with 10 ranks for an
> whole multi-sector navy.

Good point.  But I've always assumed this to be the case.  I've always viewed
Traveller character ranks as encompassing a range of actual authority.  In my
mind, I consider these differences as those deriving from adminstration and not
necessarily the title.  A Fleet Admiral in charge of a Tanker Fleet doesn't
quite cut the same mustard as a Fleet Admiral or even a Commodore in an Battle
Fleet, etc.

WRT religion, I hope you read Pat Connaughton's post about the Catholic Church
ranks and titles.  It shows the kind of flexibility that exists in that global
organization.


> How about Primate for the Head of Church on a planet big enough to have
> more than one Arch-bishop?
>
> Here's a suggestion:
>
> Bishop              Diocese; Worlds with less than 100,000 people is a
>                     single diocese.
> Arch-bishop         Arch-diocese (2-10 dioceses (may be a number of small
>                     worlds). Worlds with less than 1 million people is a
>                     single arch-diocese.
> Primate             World of more than 1 million people. Also courtsy title
>                     for bishops and arch-bishops who are head of church on
>                     smaller worlds.
> Sub-sector primate
> Sector primate
> Pope
>
> Or you could take an alternate spelling of primate (Primas) and make that
> a separate rank.

Good ideas, all.  As you point out, variation in population requires different
treatement, etc.  I'm most concerned with the 'normal' setup of and what it
should be.  The results are posted as "Table of Ranks - Long (Was - Re:
Religious Careers)."  When it becomes necessary, I think I'll take your
suggestions of Primates and Primas, as well as Pat Connaughton's mention of
Legates, Chanellors, Chamberlains, etc.

Thanks again.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 20:39:42 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Table of Ranks - Long (Was - Re: Religion Careers)

Pat Connaughton wrote:

> <snip>
> I hope that this will be of interest. Please give me some feed-back.
> Per your request here is the current hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church.
> (with side notes)

Sure was!  Thanks.  I found some info at    http://www.vatican.va/
but it isn't organized to find what I was really looking for, which is what
you've provided.

For those interested in creating a military religious order, this info is
excellent but also of interest is

http://www.chivalricorders.org/vatican/

All kinds of information about the Military Orders, especially those still
existing.0

The whole hierarchy is confusing as I'm finding, especialy when you look at the
military orders which have a nobility component.  Additionally, some titles are
apparently administrative, and not necessarily hierarchical, especially in the
military orders.  I've decided to simplify the different ideas I've had by
separating them into a Church, Monastic Orders, and Military Orders (both Noble
and Common) and streamlining or stretching where appropriate.  They are all
clergy to one extent or another.


The Church

Ordainment replaces the idea of a commission.  Going to a 4 year Seminar allows
a character to enter the clergy with rank of Reverend.

(*note*  Pilgrim, Missionary, Deacon, Chaplain and Inquisitor were put into
heirarchy by me to give flavor and fill out the table of ranks for Traveller.
Deacon apparently covers a range but I thought it should be reflected somewhere
in the sub-pastor ranks titles, as did Reverend, which I wanted to represent
entry-level priests.  Pilgrim and Missionary give the idea of a young person and
is relatively distant from the main work of the church.  Exorcist sounds like a
great title for a sergeant/type NCO rank, as do Chaplain and Inquisitor.
"Inquisitor" just sounds scary thanks to Torquemada and Poe.  And having it
equate to a world-weary hardened Sergeant Major rank helps.  The title of Grand
Inquisitor was left out of all the ranks and should be appointed for the whole
church or each Monastic or Religious Order (I seem to recall that Torquemada was
only Grand Inquisitor for the Fransican Order - or whichever order he belonged
to).  There is a Cardinal and Cardinal-Protector to reflect range of power
within Cardinals.  Perhaps Monsignor should replace the former.)

D1  Pilgrim
D2  Missionary
D3  Acolyte
D4  Deacon
D5  Exorcist
D6  Reader
D7  Porter
D8  Chaplain
D9  Inquisitor

P1   Reverend
P2   Pastor
P3   Vicar
P4   Bishop
P5   Archbishop
P6   Cardinal
P7   Cardinal-Protector
P8   Patriach
P9   Ponitff

I'm going to not use the Metropolitan, Primate, Legate, etc. stuff because that
seems to be of most significance internally, especially the colleges, etc.  But
I am thankful to Pat for the info.  I will use it for internal administration
though.


Monastic Orders

No 'enlisted' ranks. Gender specific and alternate names provided.  Although the
sophont stuff is tongue in cheek.

M1  Novice
M2  Lay Brother / Lay Sister / Lay Sophont
M3  Monk / Nun
M4  Friar
M5  Father / Mother / Parent Sophont
M6  Father / Mother Superior / Parent Sophont Superior
M7  Prior / Prioress
M8  Abbott / Abbess / Archimandrite / Grand Prior / Grand Prioress
M9  Arch-Abbott / Arch-Abbess


Military Order

Promotion for enlisted ranks same as for other services, i.e., 1/year for the
first term.  There isn't a long hierarchy so promotion rolls should be tough,
and of course, 07 grand Master should be unavailable to PCs, I should think.
Additionally, unless the character went to seminary, he should be required to
spend at least one term as an enlisted man before being 'commissioned.'
(Seminary would be similar to naval or military academy for religious
careers).   The enlisted ranks are not as extensive as the other types of
organization, but I've tried to use the 'enlisted' Church ranks as much as
possible.  Soldier replaces Acolyte.  Sergeant replaces Exorcist, Reader and
Porter, which don't seem to have as much usefulness in military context.

E1  Pilgrim
E2  Missionary
E3  Soldier
E4  Deacon
E5  Sergeant
E6  Chaplain
E7  Inquisitor

O1  Lieutenant
O2  Sub-Commander
O3  Commander
O4  Marshall
O5  Master / Prior
O6  Grand Prior
O7  Grand Master


Noble Ranks (This is bastardized from various descriptions of various religious
military orders - for more info see  http://www.chivalricorders.ord/vatican/
).  The main confusion I had was in thinking that Monsignor was a rank, its not
apparently.  It is more of a title in recognition of service, as Pat described.
Thus, Cardinal can also be a Monsignor.  The Noble ranks within the church I've
described here are probably going to be expressly anit-canon as soon as Noble
supplement comes out (perhaps I'll rework it then).  But, you can use them in a
couple of different ways:

(1) They are separate titles of nobility and mutually exclusive whatever other
feudal ranks exist within a society.  A holder of these ranks swears fealty to
the church above all, and disavows the same to secular governments.

(2) They are separate from, but not contradictory to other organizations.  This
would represent a clear separation between church and state, a title in one,
forbears a title in the other (and the church is subservient to the state, in
temporal matters at least).

(3)  They are complementary.  This would involve some combination of church and
state, to varying degrees, whether rule by divine right or constitutional
monarchy I think (though I'm sure my brethren and sistren across the pond would
better be able to explain the interrelations between the two in at least one
'Great' example ;-).  Thus. you might have title such as Cleon I, Emperor of the
Third Imperium, Archduke of Sylea, Primate of the Holy Church of the Black Sun,
Bearer of the Royal Codpiece, Holder of the Vinyl Reliquary of St. Elvis the
Legshaker of Tupelo, T.C.B.I.A.F. ("Takin' Care of Business In A Flash"). etc.,
etc.

In the last 2 systems, the religious noble titles would not be automatically
determined by Soc., but they must be earned, generally, i.e., no player
character would start out as a Count and a Bailiff.

Soc:   Title
A       Monsignor
B       Knight / Chevelier
C       Donat
D       Bailiff
E       Chamberlain
F       Legate
G       Primate

Noble Religious Military Orders:  There are lots of these in real life and many
of them required proofs of noble descent to qualify for membership.  That is why
I've lowered the name title for religious nobility to Monsignor.  Some noble
military orders would be open to only Knights and above, but since this may keep
the order too small to be useful, some may allow monsignors to participate.
Again feudal rank won't necessarily equate to religious rank.  The ranks for
such orders would consist of only the officer / commissioned parallels of the
'common' military orders   This results in no enlisted ranks for such orders,
weakening their effectiveness as military units somewhat.  Ways to handle this:
since they're nobles already they furnish their own enlisted ranks which are
personally loyal to individuals; they have enlisted ranks made of 'commoners,'
who may never aspire to their ranks, but are able to serve; or, they operate
without enlisted ranks as more elite and independent servants of their religion,
which might include commando and undercover operations, as well as recruiting
and other more public activities more in keeping with nobles.  Finally, such
organizations may simply operate within and/or in association with other orders
and/or their secular goverment.  This would vary from order to order.

Whew.  That is a lot of stuff.  Perhaps the sheer volume of my spiel will
convince Marc or whoever makes such decisions that they should hire me to write
whatever for them and save me from the legal career that is my most likely
future.


Just in case:
Bloo     UPP: A95BA6-1  Age: 29  Solomani  Male
Law-4, Athletics (Rugby-3), Computer-1, Research-3, Rifle-2
Brawling-1, Steward (Cook-3), History-3, Diplomacy-2
Jack-of-All-Trades-2, Language (German-1), Linguistics-2, Music (Guitar-2),
Acting-2, Physics-1, Trivia-5, Gaming-4.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #20
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Wednesday, January 21 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 021



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

T4 Major Aliens ??
Re: FS: Classic Traveller]
Re: Lifeboats
Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy
Re: Naval Architect's Manual
Re: Thrusters
Re: Militias, Missiles, Nukes and Interstellar Economics
Re: Lifeboats
Sam's death missiles. (quite long)
re: mirror finishes on missiles
Starship With Plans
Off-Topic - Ice Crisis in Eastern North America
Re: Guns of the Wild West
Re: Missiles
Re: Religion careers
Re: Militias, Missiles, Nukes and Interstellar Economics
Re: Lifeboats

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:12:59 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: T4 Major Aliens ??

Are there any plans to release updated info on the major alien races,
especially Aslan and Vargyr?  I don't have, and have no prosepects of
getting, any of the Aliens Modules.  And I suspect that updated historys
will be or have been created.

Oh, well.  In the meantime, could someone please post the highlights of
Aslan and Vargyr PC or NPC creation, i.e., any racial mods to
characteristics, unique powers/ abilities, and any unique skills not
mentioned in T4.

And who the heck are Genoee and Suerrats?  Should I be concerned with
them in a Milieu 0 Campaign centered in Core sector, according to Canon?

Thanks.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:28:13 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: FS: Classic Traveller]

Hmmmm . . . .

Tal Meta wrote:

> I have the following classic traveller books/supplements for sale, but I
> am only willing to sell them as a single lot, not piecemeal.
>
> Traveller Starter Edition (GDW251) (Box VG, contents Mint)
> (several spots of white shelf scuff)

Whats in that?  Its been a while.

> Traveller Book 8: Robots (NM)
> Traveller Alien Module #1: Aslan (NM)
> Traveller Alien Module #5: Droyne (GD)
> (Sticker mark, cover scuff, creases, some light interior marks)
> Traveller Alien Module #7: Hivers (VG)
> (several lines of green ink on interior front cover, otherwise spotless)
> Traveller Alien Module #8: Darrians (NM)
> Traveller Alien Realms (GDW262) (NM)
>
> $85 takes the bunch of them, including shipping via USPS.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:04:22 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Lifeboats

Richard A. Flores wrote:

> SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com> wrote:

[snip]

> >Isn't this what emergency low berths are for?
>
> Those of us who started with the "little black books" have an understandable
> reluctance to get into a cryo coffin.

You said it, man!  I've been away for a while and am surprised by the
willingness of so many to leap into the ice coffin at the first sign of danger.
Serves you right when the GM says you were critically wounded but somehow
preserved, although unable to be revived for 700 years, thus putting you in a
universe in which your skills are useless, your family and material wealth gone,
and your single greatest value to humaniti is as a history resource.

Jeez, what was that roll needed to survive low berth.  Wasn't good.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:18:06 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

Numerology, Concourse, stuff, yada, yada, yada.
Boils down to one thing:


Masons!

In space.

I just knew it.

Whats next, a proof of how jump engines are powered by sacred geometry?

What would R.A.W. say?


;-)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:32:35 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Naval Architect's Manual

Frank G. Pitt wrote:

> My only complaint is that it should have been released either as a
> piece of software (so you could assemble all those pieces into complete
> deckplans and print them out ) or with all the layouts printed on
> heavy cardstock like the pieces from "Space Crusade" so you could
> assemble them manually on your table as required.
>
> In fact, that's the thing I'll most likely do with it, photocopy the
> whole book, cut out the deckplans and stick them on cardboard.

Never saw Star Crusade, but that is a hell of an idea.  I just got a copy and I
think it the interim solution to my starport layout problem.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 20:55:33 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thrusters

Oops.


>Tsykoduk <tsykoduk@sprynet.com> wrote:
>
>[snip of as good an explaination as I have heard]
>
>>I also agree with MT, in that there should be a min. size to the
>>units.

I replied:

>There is, it's .1 m^3 (200 kN or 20 gravity tonnes)


Right after sending this message, I realized that I made a mistake, the
above is for HEPlaR.  The correct response should have been:

>There is, it's 10 m^3 (4000 kN or 400 gravity tonnes)

Sorry about that.

The worst part is, you can't use either of these engines in a standard
missile.  The T-plate is too big, and the HEPlaR requires a fusion plant (10
m^3 minimum).  Oh well.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:44:58 -0600
From: William Barnett-Lewis <wlewis@mailbag.com>
Subject: Re: Militias, Missiles, Nukes and Interstellar Economics

Can you say "Windsong"?

W.


> Also don't forget outfits like "Barefoot Cruises" They and a number of
> operators like them run three masters around the Caribbean, carrying
> tourists around in 18th century style. (with modern wet bars, galleys and
> facilities, of course)

Which is another possible venue for a ship so old that it has to coast
rather than thrust all the way to the 100 diameter limit. "Experience
free-fall, just like the ancient astronauts." I expect that you *could*
sell cruises on such a ship, even if it was a modern design *based* on
the old ships.

- --
William A. Barnett-Lewis
wlewis@mailbag.com
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
"We are artists.  Poets paint motion  and light.  Historians paint stills.  It can
be dangerous to get history from a poet.  It can also be the greatest blessing."
      Larry Miller Murdock
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:25:15 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Lifeboats

>Low berths take both space and power. I was replying to a guy who was
>claiming a lifeboat that'd hold 4 in under 1 Td. 

Okay.  Gotcha.  That is a bit extreme I'd think...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:51:19 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Sam's death missiles. (quite long)

This is getting long - possibly we should take it to TTL.
Yes but after a bit of up powering PD weapons to pen the armored missile,
they become more of a major weapons system in power and cost.

>Is this [PD laser] using the optional *grav* focussed array?
The TL-12 version was grav focussed (which is not optional in canonical
Traveller...). You can design a very nice TL-13 X-ray non-grav-focus
if you like.

>It still can but the chance of hitting is reduced, unless the *range rate*
>is fast enough.
I'm not sure what you mean by "range rate"; I think a lot of your
views are still coloured by your naval experience. If the missile is
going to hit the ship, it's coming (nearly) straight at it (possibly
jinking a little), which is the easiest possible situation for a 
lightspeed weapon. Lasers travel in straight lines...
I could design a system at TL-8 that could hit
a target under those conditions. Acquiring the target and handing it
off to a PD system requires good coordination between sensors and
weapons, but that's not impossible with good computers. Especially
if you're willing to assume that any 30-G/700 km/s targets closing on
your ship are hostile :-) 

>I get 3,599 km/s final *velocity* *speed* *range rate*.
(That's one hour at 100 G's, right?)
For your 10-G and 30-G missiles the impact velocities are 360 km/s
and ~1000 km/s, each. (And one needs to launch the 30-G one 
about 100 million km out to give it that much of a run-up, too - 
though that does help to make it harder to detect.)

>If it quits accel
>and then travels for another minute the distance it would travel is
>215,940km, well outside the minimum detection range.
Let's see what the detection range actually is, shall we? In the
absence of a posted design I'll assume the minimum possible 
thruster plate - which requires 10 MW. That's a signature (FFS2/DSR) of
- -0.5. Advanced (TL-12) masking reduces it to -1.5 (assuming the missile
doesn't run out of surface area) and agressive baffling (chosing to
radiate all waste heat out the back, basically) reduces this to -2. 
A medium-sized military array (PEMS-14) will still detect the target
at about 500,000 km - 5 million km if it's already seen the 
launching ship. Further if (as I suspect) even the baby Bubba has more
than a 10 MW thruster system. Space is dark, 10 megawatt IR power plants are
bright. Once the thing shuts down it's much harder to detect, of 
course - it just needs a few kilowatts to power a PEMS, I suppose.
However, if it is initially detected it can be handed off to a LIDAR...
and sooner or later it needs to power up again to hit the target.
(You also might consider batteries rather than a fusion plant for
that final "oomph" while intercepting - fusion plants require a 
full half-hour BL turn to go from switched off to full power.)
Visible signature with a mil-black coating will be -2.5, so it'll be
detectable in visible light at 160,000 km - three minutes before 
impact. The missile's job does get easier if the target is surprised,
of course, and much easier if you can catch the target in a bad
sensor environment like a dusty system.

>Bubba does not use superdense armor it uses electromorhopic synthetics(sp).
>Getting the G's is not the problem, it is power required.
I'm not even sure where "electromorphic synthetics" come from - CSC?
I gather you sloped the armour and only armoured the front, which makes
it vulnerable to screening vessels...and means the armour is no good
if the missile is evading (and hence presenting its side facing).

>Hmm how did you build 100 G missiles in FFS1? I don't remember any that
>could fit in the *standard* missile displacement.

The 100-G was just my nominal target - I wanted to design against
the worst case, in case someone like you came along :-)

>Well lets say I only need 10 percent out of each missile to hit the
>defending ship. That would mean that they would be deploying a lot earlier
>than the above range.

Let's say we have a 12-m diameter target (a destroyer) 
maneuvering at 4 G. If you want to hit it with 10% of your 
1000 BB's, you need to have your BB's spread out over a circle ~40 m
in diameter at the time you reach the target. However, since the
DD takes about 1.4 seconds to change its position
by 40 m, you have to deploy only ~2 seconds before impact - otherwise
the DD can get out of the way. So you deploy the BB's at 
about 700 km out for your 30-G missile - it'll have spent about 15
seconds inside the "can't miss" laser range before reaching this
distance.

>If a 250Mcr missile takes out of action/destroys a 1,500 Mcr warship, and
>is reusable afterwards then the actual costs of the missiles is only for
>fuel and payload, which is a lot less than 100Mcr.
I'm still not sure about "reusable afterwards"; assuming the target
is part of a squadron, the Bubba passes right through the 
center, desperately evading (and hence lit up like a candle), and 
exposing it's non-armoured sides to the other ships in the squadron.

Still, your point about relative costs is correct. Why don't you dredge
out your design, and post (say) MCr 1000 worth of Bubba's and 
carrying vessel - I'll see if for MCr 1000 I can design a ship
completely immune to them. 

That's not to say it isn't a good weapon system when used with 
surprise - a sleeping sensor operator and a PD system not in
automatic mode will be in serious trouble. (Like the Stark.) 
And it's a *great* weapon against any sort of fixed target (like a
space station) that can't evade.



Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:59:44 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: mirror finishes on missiles

>So to destroy the missle you have to to get a hit on the same
>spot twice.

No - in the first 10 microseconds of the 100 MJ/1 millisecond laser
pulse, 1 cm of 99.9% mirror coating absorbs about 1 kJ in a one
square centimeter area. Since that's fast enough for heat transport to
be negligible, the first micron or so of the coating absorbs all this 
heat - that's 1 kJ into ten micrograms of miracle mirror superdense,
which is pretty much guaranteed to vaporize it. The remaining 90 MJ
hit a nice not-very-shiny molten metal/plasma surface. 

(And that's ignoring the issue of whether you can keep a surface 
99.9% even in hard vacuum - and it has to be that reflective all  the 
way from the UV to near-IR.)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:07:20 -0500
From: John Toth <jtoth@erols.com>
Subject: Starship With Plans

Hi Guys... and Gals,

I was wondering if I could get some Help.
I have just finished making a 400ton Searching Trader (Far Ranger) with the 
corresponding Deckplans and was wondering if I could get some feedback on 
it. The Ship was made with Mr. Andrew Akins FF&S2 (Grrreat) spreadsheet and 
the plans with Visio 4.  The File has been put to a Word file from Office 
97 and is 284 kb so I really don't want to Jam the list.  If anyone want's 
to get it, I will be more than happy to send it to you.
Thanks for all of your help.

John Toth

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:46:16 -0800
From: crystal <crystal@postme.net>
Subject: Off-Topic - Ice Crisis in Eastern North America

Roderick Darroch Elliott wrote:
> It's not like there was an earthquake or anything; people got frozen 
> out, went to public shelters or moved in with friends or family, 
> waited until the power came on, and went home.

Strange that power lines are above ground. Is this bcos of the voltage
involved or the distance tranversed?

Roderick Darroch Elliott wrote:
> generator thefts are skyrocketing
Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
> there's just so much downed and broken wire that it's become almost a 
> pure manpower job.

Boy, are you guys broke!!! Not only do you have lack of manpower, you
can't even afford one in a disaster. 

Whatever happened to financial exchanges & Mexican labour? Just
kidding...no mexican would risk his life for a White. You'll have to
contend with your own National Guard.

Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
>They're probably not geeps - or at least not GP40s
Roderick Darroch Elliott wrote:
> Actually, I think they might be SD40's.  Again, I could be wrong.
> I'm basing myself off of silhouettes from "N-Scale Model Railroading"

'GP40', 'SD40' - Are you refering to locomotive chassis or generators?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:02:30 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Guns of the Wild West

Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote:


>In mail you write:
>
>> Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote:
>>
>>>If anybody needs it to freak out their characters, I've got a
>>>description of *exactly* how one produces saltpeter. It'll gross out a
>>>lot of people.
>>
>> Is that where you leach guano?  Why don't you post it, I'm sure it would
be
>> good for a laugh.  Especially the reactions.
>
>Not guano. That's *far* too uncommon....

Depends on where you live.

City dwellers could substitute pigeon droppings.

I believe that chickens also produce a good quality of droppings for
leaching.  Probably what they recommended in the first place.  No?

>>>The other steps in producing powder are fairly simple, though not
>>>always what you'd expect.
>>>
>>>But there are several places where many a character is going to say
>>>"You want me to do *what*?!"
>>
>> Don't they always?
>
>From: tip@lead.aichem.arizona.edu (Tom Perigrin)
>Newsgroups: alt.engr.explosives,rec.pyrotechnics,rec.org.sca
>Subject: Potassium Nitrate... no problem
>Date: 2 Nov 1994 18:44:18 GMT
>Organization: AI in Chem Lab
>
>
>A lot of people seem to have problem getting KNO3 to make home-made black
>powder.   Well, if you are really desperate, it's not that hard to make...
>This recipie is from Birringucchio, Pyrotechnia, 1540.  It was used
>"commercially" as recently as the US Civil War when the Union blockade of
>the South prevented shipments of Chilean Saltpeter from getting into port.
>  I've done this for a historical recreation event... it's "fun", but a bit
>messy and some people find it to be a tad distasteful.
>
>Find old horse manure, the kind that has sat under shelter, and has little
>white threads on the surface.   If you can't find horsemanure, just take
>your own manure and let it ferment under cover for a few months.   Also,
>take urine and let it set out until it is good and fermented.  Get some
>hardwood ashes and lime.
>
>Get a 50 gallon drum or barrel, and punch a hole in the bottom.  Put a cork
>in the hole. Now line the bottom with cloth.  Then add 2" of manure, 1.5"
>of ashes, and 1" of lime.  Repeat until you are near the top.  Now pour in
>the fermented urine.  Let it all stand for a few days.  At this point it
>has a particular amusing odor.  Then drain off and collect the liquid from
>the bottom hole.   Pour in some more fermented urine, and repeat.  Now wash
>it with clean water until the water coming out isn't brown or yellow
>anymore and doesn't taste bitter to the tounge.
>
>Boil the collected liquids down until they just start to throw crystals
>while hot, and then add a enough hot water to double the volume and let
>cool.  You might want to stand UPWIND while boiling this down.   You will
>get almost 10 pounds of crystals of KNO3, with a bit of NaNO3 and NaCl
>admixed, various brown and yellow contaminants, and some detritus too.
>Recrystalize once or twice from clean water to get fairly pure pale yellow
>KNO3.
>
>From 100 pounds of horse or people manure and 75 gallons of fermented urine
>you can get from 2 to 5 pounds of KNO3, depending on a number of factors.
>
>You might want to do some of this outdoors.
>
>
>-------.sig--------
>
>I don't know where the return address  tip@lead.tmc.edu   comes from...
>Something messes up the right address which is  tip@lead.aichem.arizona.edu
>Sorry
>
>From: tip@lead.aichem.arizona.edu (Tom Perigrin)
>Newsgroups: alt.engr.explosives,rec.pyrotechnics,rec.org.sca
>Subject: Re: Potassium Nitrate... no problem
>Date: 3 Nov 1994 22:53:42 GMT
>Organization: AI in Chem Lab
>
>In article <399hi3$8ri@cville-srv.wam.umd.edu>, ghori@wam.umd.edu (The Evil
>One) wrote:
>>
>> Tom Perigrin (tip@lead.aichem.arizona.edu) wrote:
>>
>[article about extract KNO3 from horse manure deleted]
>
>>
>> Are you serious? Only a REALLY desperate person would resort to such
>> a method of getting the stuff. Have you tried it?
>
>
>Yes.  Not because I was desperate to get KNO3 (I was a chem graduate
>student at the time), but because I wanted to recreate some of the more
>authentic sights, sounds, and smells of the 16'th C for Northern California
>Rennaisence Faire.
>
>Renn Faires (and festiavals, and the SCA) are all way TOO clean and
>sanitized... no dead animals in streets, no pisspots emptied out of second
>story windows, the meat isn't nearly rotten enough, etc..
>
>It was amusing to watch the modern 20'th C person's reaction as I told them
>what I was doing...   when it finally completely dawned on them that I was
>stirring a bucket of SHIT, they often went a delicate green.   I could then
>play with their reactions, and discuss the other unsundry realities of life
>in the 16'th C with them.  Or, they would leave.
>
>-------.sig--------
>
>I don't know where the return address  tip@lead.tmc.edu   comes from...
>Something messes up the right address which is  tip@lead.aichem.arizona.edu
>Sorry
>
>From: tip@lead.tmc.edu (Tom Perigrin)
>Newsgroups: alt.engr.explosives,rec.pyrotechnics,rec.org.sca
>Subject: Re: Potassium Nitrate... no problem
>Date: 6 Nov 1994 06:00:58 GMT
>Organization: A.I. Chem Lab, University of Arizona
>
>In article <39eblf$ep4@sun001.dsccc.com> jmccarty@spd.dsccc.com
> (Mike McCarty) writes:
>
>>Oh, I think he just mis-posted. It was actually destined for
>>rec.humor.funny, but got here instead. Particularly interesting was the
>>instruction to continue to wash the boiled rotten piss and shit until
>>the liquid coming off was no longer bitter to the taste.
>
>Actually, it's all true.  Birringuchio's book, Pyrotechnia, is available
>in reprint from Dover books, and is a good book to buy for historical
>pespectives...  Actually, I left out the most interesting part...  in
>Birringuchio, the recipie says to leach until it no longer tastes bitter
>to YOUR APPRENTICE.  [caps mine].
>
>--
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:41:03 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Missiles

Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote:


>In mail you write:
>
>> Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:51:17 -0800, bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan
Macintosh)
>>>The consensus was that any reasonably point defence system - or even
>>>a single civilian laser turret - can guarantee a hit on such a missile
>>>well before it impacts
>>
>> Why can't you just give them a mirror finish?
>
>Weapons grade lasers turn a "mirror finish" to junk. While we can get
>99.9% (I think) reflectivity on things like telescope mirrors, you
>can't put that on a missile, partly because of expense, and partly
>because it won't *stay* that reflective in the sort of environment a
>missile is stored and launched in.
>
>So if you have a 99% reflective (damn good!) mirror coating, that means
>that 1% of the pulse is still absorbed. Which is enough to turn the
>coating into high temp plasma. And in the process, ruin the coating for
>some distance around the point the laser pulse hit.
>
>Ask the folks who work with mere kilojoule pulse lasers what happens to
>their mirrors if a dust speck gets on them. :-)
>
>With Traveller's megajoul to gigajoule pulses, mirroring isn't worth
>the cost it adds.

However, for those of you who still want to add it:  check out Reflec
Coating (CSC p 15) which adds +3 to the armor rating vs. lasers.  It only
adds 10% to the cost and 20% to the mass of the base armor.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:06:33 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Religion careers

Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote:


>In mail you write:
>
>A note on the "cannibalism" bit. Don't forget that *technically* that
>describes many Christian sects. Remember what Communion is supposed to be.
>
>But for more shock value, a quite civilized society could have
>cannibalism without too much trouble. Say as part of the funeral rites.

Viz. Stranger In A Strange Land.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 20:59:30 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Militias, Missiles, Nukes and Interstellar Economics

Leonard Erickson wrote:

>And if you are starting a game, and nobody got a Ship benefit, but they
>have a modest amount of money and lots of engineering skills (plus some
>legal ones) you might just have them hear about the "orbital junkyard"
>where lots of older ships are stashed until someone feels like
>salvaging or scrapping them.  And they can decide to tinker one back
>into working order. :-)
>
>I'm not sure that a solar sail type ship would be compatible with jump
>drive. But if it was, that'd be a *really* interesting ship. And even
>if it wasn't, they'd be *very* competetive in a system with several
>worlds with decent sized populations.

Speak of the devil... I've been tinkering with a very early Sayat "safari
yacht", jump capable with solar sails.  The sails need to furl in order to
get into the spherical jump bubble, which is a fun problem.  No fusion,
TAKAF+, _or_ fission reactor -- all done with fuel cells, batteries, and
solar panels.  Suitable for encounter as a derelict of some sort.  Also I'm
looking at ways of building lower-tech, in-system spacecraft.

These "old-fashioned" spaceships are a hoot... they have more character
than lots of these new-fangled boats, with displacements in even 100s of
tons, your choice of HEPlaR or T-plate, superdense hull, and a good old
fusion plant lighting it all up.

I'm definitely going to rebuild the Gelektelkeikuttin and the
Osikattalkarai with more batteries and maybe "primitive" rocket engines.
No serious degradation of ability, of course; the Osikattalkarai should
still win the THUDDD-8 contract hands-down <G>.

>Fission power plants may be popular in such places as well. If you are
>processing nickel iron asteriods on any sort of large scale, you'll
>have *tons" of "trace" components like gold and uranium. Heck, if they
>build fission plants in the belt, I'd not be surprised to see gold
>being used as shielding!

Definite adventure hooks there, with the right set-up...

On this whole matter of nukephobia, I think there are other ways to create
"nuclear-free zones" on local planets.  Weird religious beliefs are an
obvious solution.  My little friends the Sayat consider nuclear physics to
be a branch of reproductive medicine (or is it the other way around?), for
example.  Fission reactions are seen as highly inauspicious and unhealthy
(in a moral and spiritual sense as well as the radiological one), because
it involves breaking up a nonconsenting, well-adjusted nucleus.  Not an
ethically acceptable action.  Using these processes to generate power?
Nonononono!  What sorts of horrible things will happen to the people who
use that energy, when _they_ try to reproduce?  Bad, bad, bad.

Fusion, on the other hand, is a wholesome, life-affirming,
nigh-upon-miraculous joy to behold and partake of: making new nuclei out of
little, lonely, incomplete ones!  Just like fetuses (feti? fetera?) are
made out of pairs of little ova!  Ain't it wonderful?  But, at the same
time, there's still something sort of numinous, sort of ontologically
dubious about the whole thing, and so the technology is best left in the
hands of people who've borne at least one or two kids.  It's just... easier
that way.  Safer.  They know how to handle fusing better, right?  So it
keeps things from happening, you know?  What sort of things?  Well, I
dunno... just -- things.

So: no fission reactors to speak of, damn few fission warheads, and a
limited pool of potential fusion scientists, engineers and technicians.
Starships with fission power plants will not be welcome in Concourse space.
Fusion plants will be regarded as... well, as _special_, and those under
the care of un-bred persons, as probably dangerous.


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:56:10 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Lifeboats

Stevie D (aka Bloo) <blueboy@bu.edu> wrote:


>Richard A. Flores wrote:
>
>> SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com> wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>> >Isn't this what emergency low berths are for?
>>
>> Those of us who started with the "little black books" have an understandable
>> reluctance to get into a cryo coffin.
>
>You said it, man!  I've been away for a while and am surprised by the
>willingness of so many to leap into the ice coffin at the first sign of danger.
>Serves you right when the GM says you were critically wounded but somehow
>preserved, although unable to be revived for 700 years, thus putting you in a
>universe in which your skills are useless, your family and material wealth gone,
>and your single greatest value to humaniti is as a history resource.
>
>Jeez, what was that roll needed to survive low berth.  Wasn't good.

I don't remember.  I refuse to remember!  You can't make me remember!!!

Excuse me, I seem to have lost it for a minute there.  ;-)

Actually, my favorite current character is just such a person.  A retired
scout/merchant he lived in the latter days of the first Emperium and the
early days of the RoM.  He is an award winning writer in Core sector and has
a huge shipping concern.  All starting from the remnants of his personal
vessel, his data bases and a sharp mind.  I guess he can't complain too
much.  (snicker, snicker)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #21
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Wednesday, January 21 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 022



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Lifeboats
Re: World "Skills"
Critics / Playtesters Wanted
Pocket Empires
Re: An embarassing question...I should know this...
Never trust the Web!!!
*Underwear* Lasers and Missiles: was(Sam's death missiles)
Re: missiles in space
Re: missiles in space
Re: missiles in space
Re: Cool Minis
Re: spaceport authority customs
re: mirror finishes on missiles
Re: *Underwear* Lasers and Missiles: was(Sam's death missiles)
Re: Cool Minis
Question: Computers St vs Fb, what is this really?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:06:43 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Lifeboats

SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com> wrote:


>>Low berths take both space and power. I was replying to a guy who was
>>claiming a lifeboat that'd hold 4 in under 1 Td.
>
>Okay.  Gotcha.  That is a bit extreme I'd think...
>
To which the guy said:  It CAN be done.  :-b  Preliminary analysis shows it
possible in less than half a Td, but final design may be larger (i.e.
between 0.5 and 1.0).  As soon as I get it presentably, I'll post it.  :-)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 20:48:45 -0800
From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <schoon@aimnet.com>
Subject: Re: World "Skills"

Robert Eaglestone <eaglesto@nortel.ca> wrote:

[snippage]
>Egvinus        0102 C876543-6 S  Ni Ag Med+2		821

>...indicating that the world is at medical TL-8.

>Since the trade classifier section is already tight, this should
>only be used when absolutely necessary.

I think that's something of an understatement. I agree that for small TL
exceptions this would be perfectly adequate, but if someone had a world
with several (or many) exceptions, it gets messy real quick.


Schoon

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:13:13 -0800
From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <schoon@aimnet.com>
Subject: Critics / Playtesters Wanted

Alrighty then...

I've hashed out updated Mayday (M4) with a small group to get them into a
decent playtestable set of rules.

Now I'm ready to expose them to the ravening hordes.

If you're interested in playtesting / critiquing / giving me grief just for
fun, then send me an email, and in turn I'll send you back a text file of
the whole shebang.

They use standard FFS2 ship designs, but you can get away with other design
systems with a little translation.


Thanx,
Schoon

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 00:42:17 -0500 (EST)
From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
Subject: Pocket Empires

Hello Folks,
  Just wanted to take a moment to both thank you guys and curse you
guys...

  Thanks to you, I am out 20+ dollars

  Thanks to you, I purchased Pocket Empires

  I think the latter sentiment is more to the point as to how I really
feel <grin>.  I liked what I saw in it, and hope I can read enough of it
by this coming Saturday for my GURPS TRAVELLER gaming group (no, it's not
out yet, just home brew rules using GURPS in the TRAVELLER universe
<wink>).  In any case, I am looking forward to using it as the driving
mechanism for my players - all Marines learning to use Battlesuits and
getting ready to save a planet from a Vargr excursion (only problem is,
their ship has been shot up, and the vargr's ships were rammed by a Yacht
and a 100 ton scoutship to their raider ships.  Their "patron" was
originally grooming them as Mercenaries to be released from the military
service - but now, I think I will use the POCKET EMPIRES as a springboard
for the "patron" leaving Sylean space, and setting up his own empire...

  Nite all - and thanks again for talking of PE in such a tantalizing
manner...

       Hal

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:13:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: An embarassing question...I should know this...

> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 08:53:46 -0600
> From: "Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net>
> Subject: An embarrassing question...I should know this...
> 
> Ack, its been too long since I had physics. This is a damn *high school*
> level question, but I'm drawing a complete blank. Ack ack ack.

Don't feel bad; I find myself having to rederive and/or look up this kind
of thing all the time.  It's age + beer that does it, I think. :)

> What would the final velocity of a craft be if it accelerated at .4G for 32
> hours?

Given:

  s0, s1   = Initial and final position
  v0, v1   = Initial and final velocity
  a        = Constant acceleration
  t        = Time interval

(with all but t being vector quantities)

The following relationships apply:

  s1 = s0 + v0 t + 0.5 a t^2
  v1 = v0 + a t

Assuming linear motion, s0 = v0 = 0:

  d  = 0.5 a t^2
  v  = a t

For your case:

  a  = 4 m/s^2
  t  = 32 hr (3600 s/hr)
     = 115200 s

So:

  d  = 0.5 (4 m/s^2) (115200^2 s^2)
     = 26542080000 m
     = about 27 million km

  v  = (4 m/s^2) (115200 s)
     = 460800 m/s
     = about 460 km/s

....which goes to show you how truly awe-inspiring even just over a day of
moderate acceleration is.  That distance is about a fifth of an AU!  Not
bad for 32 hours.

> Could someone refresh the memory of this moron on the formula for this
> stuff...I'm working on a low tech colony ship using FF&S primitive drives,
> and I want to see what kind of performance is needed - ie, can it be done.

A wonderful guideline for work like this is "1 g-year = lightspeed".
Ignoring relativistic effects,

  v  = (10 m/s^2) (365 * 86400 s)
     = 315360000 m/s
     = about 320,000 km/s

which is near enough to c (300,000 km/s).  Needless to say, relativistic
effects mess this up when you actually get close to lightspeed, but the
value of the guideline is that it lets you answer questions like "How fast
would a .01 g ship be moving after ten years?" easily (0.01 * 10 => 0.1c),
and accurately enough for initial design evaluation.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:28:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Never trust the Web!!!

> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:30:32 -0500
> From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
> Subject: Re: An embarrassing question...I should know this...
> 
> >What would the final velocity of a craft be if it accelerated at .4G for 32
> >hours?
> 
> You should be ashamed, don't you know how to use a web search tool?
> 
> V=AT^2
> 
> or Velocity equals Acceleration times Time, Squared.

And *you* should be ashamed for trusting the Web on stuff like this!  As
my previous post noted, the relations are

  d = 0.5 at^2
  v = at

Simple dimensional analysis will show that v =at^2 can't be right; it
yields

  distance/time = (distance/time^2) time^2
  distance/time = distance    [nope]

> My Physics doesn't tell me if it matters, but I remember this formula
> definitely works when units are V in Meters/sec, Accel in Meters per sec
> per sec (aka per sec squared) and Time is in seconds.

The corrected version will work for any consistent units of distance,
velocity, acceleration, and time.

> So lessee
> 
> A = .4G which is 4m/sec^2  (I hope I remember correctly that 1G=10 m/s^2)
> T = 32 hours, or 115,200 seconds.
> 
> V = 4*115,200^2
> 
> V = 4*13,271,040,000
> 
> V = 53,084,160,000 m/s or 53,084,160 km/sec or 14,745 km/hour
>
> Adds up quick, no?

(a) Given that the figure you give in metric units is 177 times
    lightspeed...yeah, it would in your universe. :)

(b) You divided rather than mulitplied by 3600 to go from km/s to
    km/hr.  The actual figure is   PINE 3.95   COMPOSE MESSAGE REPLY
Folder: INBOX  1,390 Messages   
                                                                                
> V = 4*115,200^2                                                               
>                                                                               
> V = 4*13,271,040,000                                                          
>                                                                               
> V = 53,084,160,000 m/s or 53,084,160 km/sec or 14,745 km/hour                 
>                                                                               
> Adds up quick, no?                                                            
                                                                                
(a) Given that the figure you give in metric units is 177 times                 
    lightspeed...yeah, it would in your universe. :)                            
                                                                                
(b) You divided rather than mulitplied by 3600 to go from km/s to               
    km/hr.  The actual figure is 191,102,976,000 (191 billion [American])
    km/hr.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 00:51:54 -0600
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: *Underwear* Lasers and Missiles: was(Sam's death missiles)

At 07:51 PM 1/20/98 -0800, Bruce Alan Macintosh wrote:
>
>This is getting long - possibly we should take it to TTL.
>Yes but after a bit of up powering PD weapons to pen the armored missile,
>they become more of a major weapons system in power and cost.
>
>>Is this [PD laser] using the optional *grav* focussed array?
>The TL-12 version was grav focussed (which is not optional in canonical
>Traveller...). You can design a very nice TL-13 X-ray non-grav-focus
>if you like.

Hmm grav focused lasers was an option in FFS1, and either or choice in
FFS2, not In MT or CT.

Rant Mode On

*Canon* like someone's preferences on *underwear*, some like boxers, some
like briefs and other like none at all. Some like striped briefs, others
like low cut *speedo* types. That is the best description of *canon* truly
is that is to each his own. Marc's *underwear* is most likely not what I
would choose. I like a loose and free ones, that way it is better at hiding
my *shortcomings*.<G> So when someone says something about *canon* in
Traveller, just change the word to *underwear*. 

There are at least !three! types of *underwear* for designing ships in T4
so to say what *underwear* is the official one is a farce, in light of the
T4 ship building systems *shortcomings*.

One type of *underwear* was built using FFS1, which grav focused lasers
were *optional*. Another type of *underwear* used a totally different
system, and finally the last type of *underwear* is best described nicely
as *incomplete*, but was *derived* from FFS1 again a system that grav
focused lasers were an option.

Rant Mode Off

>>It still can but the chance of hitting is reduced, unless the *range rate*
>>is fast enough.
>I'm not sure what you mean by "range rate"; I think a lot of your
>views are still coloured by your naval experience. If the missile is
>going to hit the ship, it's coming (nearly) straight at it (possibly
>jinking a little), which is the easiest possible situation for a 
>lightspeed weapon. Lasers travel in straight lines...
>I could design a system at TL-8 that could hit
>a target under those conditions. Acquiring the target and handing it
>off to a PD system requires good coordination between sensors and
>weapons, but that's not impossible with good computers. Especially
>if you're willing to assume that any 30-G/700 km/s targets closing on
>your ship are hostile :-) 

Range rate is the rate the target changes the range ie increasing or
decreasing in respect to the detecting ship. 

Thank yes I use my former naval training I was firecontrolman, just like
you are coloring your view as astronomer, I think or was that the other
Bruce? No Monty Python, Bruce comments please.<G>

This has been discussed on the GDW Beta list. Very few missiles will
approach at such an angle to give your PD battery 0 degree angle on all
three axii(sp). Most of the time the ship will have to *unmask* the PD to
give it the best angle under the conditions. Most PD's will be firing at
some angle on the FCS. That angle will mean any range errors will have a
effect ie hitting in front of, behind of, above etc. That does not take
into account any missile evasion/jinking, which will have a decreasing hit
chance on the FCS.

Yes a good computer can increase you chance to hit, but even LIDAR has
range errors that was discussed on the GDW-Beta list I believe very well.
LIDAR will have the smallest range errors, that would be what I would be
using for the sensor for a PD battery.

>>I get 3,599 km/s final *velocity* *speed* *range rate*.
>(That's one hour at 100 G's, right?)
>For your 10-G and 30-G missiles the impact velocities are 360 km/s
>and ~1000 km/s, each. (And one needs to launch the 30-G one 
>about 100 million km out to give it that much of a run-up, too - 
>though that does help to make it harder to detect.)

No that was 100 G's for half an hour, not whole hour.
No I did not use the formula below I used a large spreadsheet I had
forgotten the formula also.<G>

V = U + AT
V = final velocity (m/s)
U = initial velocity (m/s) = 0 m/s
A = constant acceleration (m/s^2) = 0.4 x 9.81 = 3.924 m/s^2
T = time (s) = 32 x 60 x 60 = 115,200 secs

>>If it quits accel
>>and then travels for another minute the distance it would travel is
>>215,940km, well outside the minimum detection range.
>Let's see what the detection range actually is, shall we? In the
>absence of a posted design I'll assume the minimum possible 
>thruster plate - which requires 10 MW. That's a signature (FFS2/DSR) of
>-0.5. Advanced (TL-12) masking reduces it to -1.5 (assuming the missile
>doesn't run out of surface area) and agressive baffling (chosing to
>radiate all waste heat out the back, basically) reduces this to -2. 
>A medium-sized military array (PEMS-14) will still detect the target
>at about 500,000 km - 5 million km if it's already seen the 
>launching ship. Further if (as I suspect) even the baby Bubba has more
>than a 10 MW thruster system. Space is dark, 10 megawatt IR power plants are
>bright. Once the thing shuts down it's much harder to detect, of 
>course - it just needs a few kilowatts to power a PEMS, I suppose.
>However, if it is initially detected it can be handed off to a LIDAR...
>and sooner or later it needs to power up again to hit the target.
>(You also might consider batteries rather than a fusion plant for
>that final "oomph" while intercepting - fusion plants require a 
>full half-hour BL turn to go from switched off to full power.)
>Visible signature with a mil-black coating will be -2.5, so it'll be
>detectable in visible light at 160,000 km - three minutes before 
>impact. The missile's job does get easier if the target is surprised,
>of course, and much easier if you can catch the target in a bad
>sensor environment like a dusty system.

But what about advanced cooling radiators option and Military Black paint?  

But what if EW is in effect typically a *barrage* jammer in front the
missile swarm, you would see the jammer but not the missile until the
jammer was rendered inop or until *burn thru* was achieved allowing the
sensor to have a chance of detecting the incoming missile(s).

Such a combat would have to be using one second turns to have it come out
right, for both sides.

>>Bubba does not use superdense armor it uses electromorhopic synthetics(sp).
>>Getting the G's is not the problem, it is power required.
>I'm not even sure where "electromorphic synthetics" come from - CSC?
>I gather you sloped the armour and only armoured the front, which makes
>it vulnerable to screening vessels...and means the armour is no good
>if the missile is evading (and hence presenting its side facing).

They were on Dave's old web page prior to FFS2, but I believe that it was
compilation of new armor types from various sources. It was one the first
armor materials to have the need for power to be input to keep it
hard/tuff/etc.

I picture Bubba coming straight on its approach vector until submunitions
deployment.

>>Hmm how did you build 100 G missiles in FFS1? I don't remember any that
>>could fit in the *standard* missile displacement.
>
>The 100-G was just my nominal target - I wanted to design against
>the worst case, in case someone like you came along :-)

Ok I thought that I had missed something in FFS1 for missile designs.<G>

>>Well lets say I only need 10 percent out of each missile to hit the
>>defending ship. That would mean that they would be deploying a lot earlier
>>than the above range.
>
>Let's say we have a 12-m diameter target (a destroyer) 
>maneuvering at 4 G. If you want to hit it with 10% of your 
>1000 BB's, you need to have your BB's spread out over a circle ~40 m
>in diameter at the time you reach the target. However, since the
>DD takes about 1.4 seconds to change its position
>by 40 m, you have to deploy only ~2 seconds before impact - otherwise
>the DD can get out of the way. So you deploy the BB's at 
>about 700 km out for your 30-G missile - it'll have spent about 15
>seconds inside the "can't miss" laser range before reaching this
>distance.

OK the Big Shot submunitions modules come in three sizes:
0.1  Dt carrying    153,438 1cm ultradense ball bearings
1.0  Dt carrying  1,814,953 1cm ultradense ball bearings
10.0 Dt carrying 19,072,352 1cm ultradense ball bearings

Also Bubba carried multiple Big Shot submunitions of the two smaller sizes.

So how big would the circle be for each of the sizes then?

It also carried several nuke submunitons also of a wide variety of sizes
and yields.

Remember your PD will have to penetrate Bubba's armor rating? 

Also under most conditions it will be making "Bill" type attacks so that
the missile itself will not impact the target, it designed to be reusable.
But if it impacted at max speed with the entire submunitions load out bye
bye battleship, with largest load out it masses over 100 tons do the math
100 tons at 12 g's for a quarter hour, very grim.

>>If a 250Mcr missile takes out of action/destroys a 1,500 Mcr warship, and
>>is reusable afterwards then the actual costs of the missiles is only for
>>fuel and payload, which is a lot less than 100Mcr.
>I'm still not sure about "reusable afterwards"; assuming the target
>is part of a squadron, the Bubba passes right through the 
>center, desperately evading (and hence lit up like a candle), and 
>exposing it's non-armoured sides to the other ships in the squadron.
>
>Still, your point about relative costs is correct. Why don't you dredge
>out your design, and post (say) MCr 1000 worth of Bubba's and 
>carrying vessel - I'll see if for MCr 1000 I can design a ship
>completely immune to them. 

What I get only one Bubba? for one Wardship?

1000Mcr will not build a very large jump capable warship maybe what 2,000Dt?

Lets due it another way, I will build a SDB wing that will carry Bubba's
and may be Little Bubba's. You get to build a 100,000 ton ship, arm as you
see fit same for me. I would not fire Bubba's at non capital ships ie large
targets. I start a mercury orbit you at Pluto, just no planets or gas
giants just the Sun and thats it.
 
>That's not to say it isn't a good weapon system when used with 
>surprise - a sleeping sensor operator and a PD system not in
>automatic mode will be in serious trouble. (Like the Stark.) 
>And it's a *great* weapon against any sort of fixed target (like a
>space station) that can't evade.

Most PD's are never in auto mode unless they have a target incoming, or
think they due. CIWS when I served did not have IFF, if you were a pilot of
an aircraft and in range and CIWS is in Auto with full ammmo load out, you
were toast. If we even radiated an unloaded CIWS the pilots in the area
knew it and started freaking out and whining for it to be shut off. They
gave us a very wide no fly zone until it was stowed. Some of them did not
like us even doing maintenance on CIWS ie checking electronics etc when
they were flying in the area. Thank God I was not on a carrier they had an
even more *restricted* life with CIWS.

As to the Stark there were issues that were involved that even I am not
entirely privy too.
- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:01:38 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: missiles in space

>Subject: Re: missiles in space
....
>>>If I was Emperor, I would decree, "All missiles must have a self destruct
>>>mechanism which is triggered within an hour of drive failure."
....
>>No way - then I have to scratch my "loose homing missile" random encounter
>>on my ship encounter tables for systems who saw action during 5:th frontier
>>war.

Or, When Missiles Go Bad...
  How about a "loose homing missile" that decides not to go off, due
to concluding that its programming represents an insufficient degree
of certainty about its necessary fate in the universe, perhaps a side
effect of being built with imported Hiver chips.  Presumably this
would be a relic of the destroyer INS Darkstar...          :)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:49:40 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: missiles in space

In mail you write:

>>True if it requires thrust all the way to the target to hit. But if
>>your anti-missile system turns the 10-20cm cross section missile
>>into a cloud of debris a few 10s or more meters across, it becomes
>>more of a hazard to the target. I think I'd have my missiles blow up
>>if any one of a number of critical systems is killed in order to
>>maximize this...

Don't forget that that "cloud of debris is *not* going to expand to "a
few tens of metters" and *stop*. Rather, it's going to be expanding at
a constant speed. from a laser or PAW hit, that's likely to be around
1000m/s (typical shockwave propogation velocities). So 1 second after
being hit, the debris cloud will be 1 km across. 

If the missile is hit by KKM anti-missile, and the closing velocity is
much over 20 km/sec the "debris" will be a cloud of plasma!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:03:48 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: missiles in space

In mail you write:

> Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
> 01/20/98 10:21 AM
>
> <<
> In fact, I would tend to believe that a spiral course would be a standard,
> it would allow the guidence sensors a much better look at the target, as
> well as keeping the missile moving
> relative to the target.
>>>
>
> IIRC from my training in feedback control theory, lo these many years ago,
> that's the easiest/cheapest way to build a seeker head anyway - it spirals
> in on the perfect intercept course. Also I think I saw IR SAMs doing this
> on the newscasts from Afghanistan...

But in space, such a course is *hideously* expensive in terms of
delta-V. It requires a large *radial* thrust. 

In space, since turns require both time and fuel, a missile can't
really use the standard "pursuit curve". Instead, it has to aim for
where it thinks the target will be when it gets there, and make small
vector changes to match course changes by the target. 

Remember, unlike air-to-air missiles, "vacuum-to-vacuum" missiles
*don't* have a major speed advantage. They have a slight *acceleration*
advantage, but pay for it by greatly decreased endurance.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:21:57 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Cool Minis

> How interested would people be in (good!) Traveller minis for ships
> in consistant scale? I might just make some. I can do metal, but I
> actually prefer resin (my resin casts don't have bubbles, I hate
> slop.).

This reminded me of some resin cast *models* that I've seen at SF cons.
They are of classic SF movie vehicles that don't have standard model
kits. They are pricey as all get out though.

Upon being reminded of these, I *immediately* flashed on the "Martian
Manta" from George Pal's "War of the Worlds". 

It occurs to me that this might actually be a viable design for a grav
assualt vehicle of some sort. Anybody feel like designing it? If
nothing else, you could get some movie stills and have fun when the
players ask "What does it look like?" :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:14:34 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: spaceport authority customs

In mail you write:

> Missiles in space combat will either be nuclear or KE. There will ALWAYS be
> more kinetic energy in a missile per kilogram than conventional explosives
> can deliver unless space combat ranges are MUCH shorter than the 30 000 km
> per hex or so.

True. As noted before, the rule of thumb is that at 3 km/sec a mass has
as much kinetic energy as an equal mass of TNT. Multuply by 2 to get
the total energy if it *was* TNT. Or run it 1.4 times as fast (4.25
km/sec) to get the same energy from a solid chunk or
rock/iron/whatever. 

Since it'd take a minor miracle to get a closing velocity that *low*,
we can safely ignore chemical explosive warheads. Explosives may still
be used to help disperse the "BBs" of a "BB warhead". But they won't
add appreciably to the damage.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:34:46 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: re: mirror finishes on missiles

Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:59:44 -0800, bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
>No - in the first 10 microseconds of the 100 MJ/1 millisecond laser
>pulse, 1 cm of 99.9% mirror coating absorbs about 1 kJ in a one
>square centimeter area. Since that's fast enough for heat transport to
>be negligible, the first micron or so of the coating absorbs all this
>heat - that's 1 kJ into ten micrograms of miracle mirror superdense,
>which is pretty much guaranteed to vaporize it. The remaining 90 MJ
>hit a nice not-very-shiny molten metal/plasma surface.

Well,  I'm not so sure about the guaranteed vaporization.  But
it brings up another question.  Why not have the first hit
vaporize a cloud in front of the target which the rest of the
pulse simply heats to some pointless temperature?

>(And that's ignoring the issue of whether you can keep a surface
>99.9% even in hard vacuum - and it has to be that reflective all  the
>way from the UV to near-IR.)

I guess this comes down to wether this is a likely advance at
Traveller TL's.  I don't find it a problem.

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:06:33 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: *Underwear* Lasers and Missiles: was(Sam's death missiles)

 
> >>Is this [PD laser] using the optional *grav* focussed array?
> >The TL-12 version was grav focussed (which is not optional in canonical
> >Traveller...). You can design a very nice TL-13 X-ray non-grav-focus
> >if you like.
> 
> Hmm grav focused lasers was an option in FFS1, and either or choice in
> FFS2, not In MT or CT.
 
I think you missed his point. Laser weapons in CT and MT were
effective at ranges that are only possible with something like grav
focussing. It isn't explicit, but it makes sense given the
long-ranged direct fire combat in CT and MT.

> This has been discussed on the GDW Beta list. Very few missiles will
> approach at such an angle to give your PD battery 0 degree angle on all
> three axii(sp). Most of the time the ship will have to *unmask* the PD to
> give it the best angle under the conditions. Most PD's will be firing at
> some angle on the FCS. That angle will mean any range errors will have a
> effect ie hitting in front of, behind of, above etc. That does not take
> into account any missile evasion/jinking, which will have a decreasing hit
> chance on the FCS.

Missiles have to be on such a course to intercept---given the
closing velocity of critters like Bubba (I *like* nasty missiles,
it keep the other guy building anti-missile weapons in place of
offensive firepower :-) they will be coming in on damn near direct
courses. "Jinking" will simply be a little sidestep to move the
missile a missile radius or two to one side or the other. The
baseline course will be bloody straight.

> T = time (s) = 32 x 60 x 60 = 115,200 secs

For half an hour time is (30min.)*(60sec/1min) = 1800 sec.
 
All that said, I dig big ole missiles. I like to call them torpedos
if they get much bigger than a ton or two, though :-)

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:10:43 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Cool Minis

OK. Anybody have any scupts/bashes/etc. that they might like to see
cast? They have to be pretty far off any originals if bashed since I
don't want to copy somebody else's work without permission.

If you have some, let's talk. Even if I just knock some out for
people on the list. The cost would be similar to metal stuff you
find at shops, it really depends on how many pieces it ends up
being, and how much undercut, etc. there is to trash the molds.

Scale would be an issue all around. Ground stuff tends to be close
to a couple standard scales, so it might be a better place to start.

- -Merrick

merrick@rt66.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:29:14 +0100
From: "Mans Gotare" <mans@gordion.se>
Subject: Question: Computers St vs Fb, what is this really?

Perhaps this has been discussed to great length before, but I'm new here
so........

What is a Standard computer made of ? Silicon? Hasn't the engineers come up
with something better in 3000 years ? The CPU manufacturers already have
problems with silicon and other solutions are sought (even if it will take a
while).

So in my Traveller world all computers are kind of optic, or at least hybrid
computers fully configurable between storage and CPU. That means that you
have a "mass" of computer material that is perfectly configurable between
CPU and Storage (no more harddisks). If you need more processing power you
just "create" some more CPU's at the cost of memory capacity and vice versa.
I know this is quite far out but as someone said in the "Nukes" thread, this
isn't 1998 with starships.

(what about the Cymbelline predator, does it eat fibers too? :)

- --
Mans

PS. If I seem confused, you're right. DS.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #22
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Wednesday, January 21 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 023



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy
Re Darrians
re: A few digests of replies
Re: Re: Major and Minor Human Races and a warning to Kenji?
Re: Sigh. Still no change at IG...
Re: Major and Minor Human Races
Re: Civvy Nukes
Re: T4 Major Aliens ??
Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy
Re: Thrusters
Re: An embarrassing question...I should know this...
Re: An embarrassing question...I should know this...
Re: Major and Minor Human Races and a warning to Kenji?
Re: Militias, Missiles, Nukes and Interstellar Economics
Re: Missles
Re: Embarrassing question
Re: Thrusters

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:16:31 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

ASlack@synetics.co.uk wrote

> Subject: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

> <<
> Is it true, in your knowledge, that the Vilani are responsible for the
> so-called hexadecimal notation so widely in use in the Imperium even today?

No actually the Vilani _stole_ the notion of Hexadecimal notation from
we Darmine.  As it was written so shall you hear.

The Commentaries on the Writings of Telor

The Word According To Isieal

Chapter 2

1	And it came to pass in those days, [circa -3526] that there went out a
decree from Ishmimkarun Kelar that all the worlds should be censused and
taxed. 
2	(And this census was first made when Ganidiirsi was governor of
Ishag.)
3	And all went to be censused, every one into her own city.
4	And Telor also went up from Lianma [Zarushagar 1727], out of the
highport of Shuubkad, into Ishag, unto the city of Tarlineal, which is
called Nena; (because she was of the house and lineage of Tarlineal.)
5	To be censused with Nagund her first husband and Dankrat her first
espoused wife.
6	And so it was that, while they were there, the days were accomplished
that she [Telor] should be censused.
7	And she brought forth, unto the Naasirka clerk Gadanla Geku, her
paperwork, and filled out the UPP section of the questionaire in
hexadecimal, because there was no room on it for decimal numbers.
8	And there were in that same office senior clerks abiding in the
building, keeping watch over the paperwork by night.
9	And lo, the paperwork of Telor came upon them, and the nonstandard
nature of her numerical nomenclature shone round them; and they were
sore afraid.
10	And [when questioned by them] Telor said unto them, Be you not afraid
for behold, I bring unto you good tidings of a more efficient way to
accurately charecterize numerical data in one numerical field for easier
machine processing while decreasing inacurate reading of one fields data
into another fields entry box, which shall be of benefit to all people.
11	For unto you is given this day in the city of Tarlineal an improved
data entry format, which is hexadecimal.
12	And it came to pass that a ruling was sent forth, only fourty seven
years later, that Telors suggestion was an infringement on the
technology patent of decimal numbering systems for data entry and she
had to pay a stiff fine.
13	And it came to pass that the researcher caste revised their standard
data entry forms to use hexadecimal numbers for data entry.

This concludes todays readings from the Commentaries on the works of
Telor: Isieal Chapter 2, Verses 1 to 13. [1 + 3 = 4]

> How does this interface with your understanding of fourness?
> >>
> 
> 16 = 4 x 4, 

Yes 16 = 4 x 4 but equally importantly it is 4 + 4 + 4 + 4 
[which is mathematically equal but spiritually different.]

>so clearly it is a sacred number, although not as sacred as 256
> because
> 256 = 4 x 4 x 4 x 4 and also 2 + 5 + 6 = 13, 1 + 3 = 4.

Yes !

You, Madam or Sir, have achieved enlightenment by understanding the
important nature of the second most important number (after 4) that
exists.  You have however forgotten that Ishag takes 256 days to circle
the sun, reflecting the 256 ways enlightenment may come upon us.  

Naturally to reflect and honor these 256 ways of enlightenment we
Darmine use 256 useage names to reflect these 256 ways to knowledge.  As
our population grew more dense it came to pass that 256 names were not
allways enough to identify people and the custom of referring to the
individual as _____ dehah [child of] Mothers name came into being, circa
4^4 x 4 x 4 [4,096] years ago.

Nahnci dehah Hinrath, - [Knower of Things/Scholar/Rabbi/Wise Woman]
Institute For The Consideration Of The Truths Telor Commented Upon,
Ishag.
 
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 00:09:03 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re Darrians

 Phil Kitching <PhilK@btinternet.com> wrote:

>reaction which causes the White Dwarf to shine
>brightly for a short period.

And it did, and then Games Workshop decided that their house games were the
way forward, and the rest as they say, is history.

;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 00:20:42 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: A few digests of replies

Andy Lilly <a.s.lilly@nortel.co.uk> wrote:

>SCAREY POWERPLANTS

>Other governments may simply object to having certain things (e.g. nuclear
>power sources - as per the Australian government a few years back; is this
>still the case?) in their own back yard.

That amused me when I read about it a while back, especially when I then
read that Austrialia was one of the biggest exporters of Uranium ore.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:40:52 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Major and Minor Human Races and a warning to Kenji?

> From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz) wrote

> Andrew Boulton wrote:
> 
> >> Must be a flashback.  Them and those pink Vargr.
> >
> >There was a Vargr in my campaign who went around in combat armour
> >painted bright pink...
> 
> SEEE???  So I'm _NOT_ crazy!!!  IT was REEALLLL!!!!

I fail to see the causal connection here Kenji.  Just because the pink
Vargr was real does not mean that you had to believe what the voices
told you about him. :)

> Hmmm.... punk Vargrs wouldn't wear studded collars... maybe little bow
> ties?  Chartreuse velveteen, of course.  With burgundy polka-dots.  And
> instead of body piercing and tattoos... whisker mascara?

In my Third Imperium studded collars, little bow ties of chartreuse
velveteen with burgundy polka-dots, and whisker mascara ar what 
therespectable business Vargr wear.  It should be fairly obvious that no
Vargr is going to be able to shock other Vargr through ther clothing
choices.  Punk Vargr typically go in for largescale dying and/or shaving
of their fur.  This is out of the mainstream because it alters the way
that the fur is used as a social communications device which is
important to the statuc conscious Vargr.  Normal everyday Vargr may go
in for perms, weaves, ribbons, etc in their fur but will not alter the
fur itself to any great degree.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 02:08:40 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Sigh. Still no change at IG...

FKiesche <FKiesche@aol.com> wrote

[snip of his comments/complaints about IG's not shipping items he has
been charged for]

Several other people have complained that IG is charging them for items
before, often well before, they ship them.

Why are you choosing to have IG send you the products mail order ?  Some
of you are owed products by IG but I do not see why you continue to
stick with them for new products.  You could instead have someone else
send you the items mail order.  Naturally you won't be able to get
anything until IG prints it but this is true everwhere.  Good games
shops do _not_ charge you for items before they ship them.  At the game
store I order for, Bosco's [and most everywhere else]

www.boscos.com

info@boscos.com

we do not ever charge peoples credit cards until we pack up their
products to go, the products then ship that day or the next day.  It is
true that _theoretically_ you should be getting things sooner if you
order them directly from IG than if you order them from a retailer who
has to wait for the products to go from IG to the distributor, to the
retailer, but it seems quite clear to me that this is not happening.  We
ship everwhere in the world and I know a lot of other places on the net
do as well.  I would have said this months ago but it seemed to me that
it might 1) sound too much like an ad for my store, 2) be obvious
anyway, and 3) that IG might get its act together.  We are not perfect
but on those rare occasions when we make an error we try to rectify it.

We do not have a vast collection of OP Traveller items but we do have
some.  We also carry the full line of T4 products (except Starships....)
Since we also carry lots of other cool games and non games you can have
other things you want sent to you as part of the same order thereby
saving money on per item shipping.
  
PS to the gamer in Canada who noted that Canadian Customs charged him a
$5 Canadian fee since the MT Journal we sent him did not have a customs
declaration slip on it [due to error by a person at our warehouse]
mention this on your next order with us and I'll see that you get a $5
US credit on your order, I meant to mention this to you earlier but I
deleted your email accidently.  If you had responded to the store rather
than to me they could have taken care of it sooner.

If you do not get the service you like from IG then do not deal with IG.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 00:14:31 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Major and Minor Human Races

>Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:00:12 EST
>From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
>Subject: Major and Minor Human Races

>Human Races of the Imperium (a partial list).

>Major	Vilani
>Major	Zhodani

Uhmm, hate to be pedantic, but just when did the Zhodani become part of
the Imperium :*>

>Major	Solomani

>Minor	Sylean (inhabits the territory around Core).
>	Azhanti
>	Fiorin
>	Geonee (their culture emphasized technology).
>	Acheron
>	Suerrat 
>	Illurian
>	Luriani

Tekundu - Yulanii/not stated [Aliens Archive]

Do the Solomani geneered races count:
Jonkeereen - Jonkeer/Deneb [Regency Sourcebook]
Scanians - Gaea/Dagudashaag [Solomani and Aslan? plus Long Way Home]

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm (general)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/abuse/abuse.htm (sexual abuse pages)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/traveller.htm (Traveller pages)

****************************************************************************
We're digging a hole in the road, you can't go up, you can't go down
you'll have to wait to drive around
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:28:14 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Civvy Nukes

>    As far as I remember, Imperial Rules of War (ROW) prohibit nukes _on
>planetary surfaces_. Nukes have been a staple on warships since CT.

Eh, the only warships allowed in the Imperium is the Imperiums own be it
colonial or not. Nukes have NOT been staple for civvies since CT.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 00:37:08 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: T4 Major Aliens ??

>Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:12:59 -0500
>From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
>Subject: T4 Major Aliens ??

>Are there any plans to release updated info on the major alien races,
>especially Aslan and Vargyr?  I don't have, and have no prosepects of
>getting, any of the Aliens Modules.  And I suspect that updated historys
>will be or have been created.

I believe that Aliens Vol 1 is scheduled for sometime this year and that
it includes the Vargr and Aslan?

>Oh, well.  In the meantime, could someone please post the highlights of
>Aslan and Vargyr PC or NPC creation, i.e., any racial mods to
>characteristics, unique powers/ abilities, and any unique skills not
>mentioned in T4.

From memory:
Aslan +1 Str, -1 Dex, +1 End - Culture based on honour (sort of a cross
between the Samurai and Klingon, though don't take that too litterally)
Strong sex role differentiation Males = Warrior, Female = Everything else
Massive territorial drive

Vargr -1 Str, +1 Dex, -1 End - Culture decentrallised and unstable. Based
around the concept of "Charisma" which is much like the Maori concept of
Mana; heavy pack mentality (think hormone driven teenager)

>And who the heck are Genoee and Suerrats?  Should I be concerned with
>them in a Milieu 0 Campaign centered in Core sector, according to Canon?

Geonee - Minor Human race, Homeworld Shiwonee/Massila 1430
         Talent for technical skills, developed jump drive from recovered
         ancient artifacts.
Suerrat - Minor Human race, Homeworld Ilelish/Ilelish 2907
          Established an interstellar state based on sublight generation ships
          Have an large pocket empire in M:0, opposed to the Imperium.

IMHO neither of these races are likely to be major factors in Core Sector,
but as you get to the frontiers the situation will change.




  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm (general)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/abuse/abuse.htm (sexual abuse pages)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/traveller.htm (Traveller pages)

****************************************************************************
We're digging a hole in the road, you can't go up, you can't go down
you'll have to wait to drive around
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 02:47:18 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@ALASKA.Net>
Subject: Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu> wrote

I'll avoid asking if you are related to the magazine of the same name :)

> Numerology, Concourse, stuff, yada, yada, yada.
> Boils down to one thing:
> 
> Masons!
> 
> In space.
> 
> I just knew it.

Yes it does.  Were you not yet on the list when we discussed this last
spring ?  You see the whole Traveller universe is a struggle between the
Ancients and the Hivers [who equate to Cthulhu mythos figures] to get to
and control the center of the universe District 268 of the Spinward
Marches [If I were still pretending to be a Darmine I would note that  
2 + 6 + 8 = 16 which is highly significant.]  The Masons are just one of
their lacky groups.  This truth was revealed by the enlightened Craig
Barry and I was merely a spectator to his greatness :)

	Does anyone out there feel up to producing the Traveller Universe
version of the Illumiati Card Game [not the CCG] ?  Haven't you all been
dying to say stuff like "Grandfather is making a privilidged attack to
control on The Sword Worlders using Hortalez et Cie, since he also
controls THe Solomani Party the attack automatically gets a  +2." :)

> 
> Whats next, a proof of how jump engines are powered by sacred geometry?

Well Carlos Alos-Ferrer  a Mathematician and former TMLer posted this
Jump Drive Theory last spring that seems to meet your specifications

< <   
         An introduction to Yet Another Jumspace Theory
         ==============================================
 
      The structure of the set of transfinite numbers reflects the
physical reality. There is a bijection between the set of transfinite
numbers and the set of physical spaces. Aleph-0 is associated to real
space, while Aleph-n (for n>=1) corresponds to Jumpspace-n. Basically,
the  corresponding cardinal measures the possible "meta-quantum
situations" that  a particle can be in, in the corresponding space. A
"meta-quantum situation"  is a complete specification of energy level,
probability distribution over  location, and all other necessary
physical characteristics.
         The lanthanum grid has the effect of exponentially increasing
the variance of meta-quantum situations in the particles of a body. In
the limit, the body cannot be contained in its space and so "jumps" into
the appropriate one.
         The set of transfinite numbers is discrete only if the
continuum hypothesis is accepted. The discovery of jumpspace requires a
deep understanding of the transfinite number theory. Those races who do
not incorporate as an assumption the continuum hypothesis have failed to
discover the jump-drive. 

Carlos Alos-Ferrer > >
      
 
> What would R.A.W. say?

I'm sorry but you are not cleared for that information at this time
Citizen Comrade Stevie D.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:46:27 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Thrusters

In mail you write:

>> The way I handled this (and similar questions about jump drive) in my old
>> CT campaign was to tell players that you need Int and Edu 15 to understand
>> how it works; most spacers just know what it does. (After all, what % of
>> modern day troubelshooters/mercs understand jet engines beyond the
>> "suck/squeeze/bang/blow" level?) When after a lot of trying one PC had Int
>> and Edu 15, I told the group that he understood how it worked, but they
>> couldn't understand what he was saying when he tried to explain... <G>
>
> You sir, are an EVIL man.  :)  Next time look up some particularly
> esoteric technobabble and spew it at them.
> A house full of BLANK looks is pretty funny as well.  :)

Hmm. How about downloading the equations from Alcubierre's paper? (He's
the guy who has proposed a *real* "warp drive"). A page or two of
tensor calculus ought to do the trick just fine. 

Or grab a copy of Blish's "Cities in Flight" and toss the spindizzy
equation at them. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 00:10:35 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: An embarrassing question...I should know this...

In mail you write:

> Ack, its been too long since I had physics. This is a damn *high school*
> level question, but I'm drawing a complete blank. Ack ack ack.
>
> What would the final velocity of a craft be if it accelerated at .4G for 32
> hours?
>
> Could someone refresh the memory of this moron on the formula for this
> stuff...I'm working on a low tech colony ship using FF&S primitive drives,
> and I want to see what kind of performance is needed - ie, can it be done.

V = A * T.

..4 g = 4 m/s^2. 
32 hours = 1152,000 seconds. 
V = 460.8 km/sec.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 00:12:46 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: An embarrassing question...I should know this...

In mail you write:

>>Ack, its been too long since I had physics. This is a damn *high school*
>>level question, but I'm drawing a complete blank. Ack ack ack.
>>
>>What would the final velocity of a craft be if it accelerated at .4G for 32
>>hours?
>>
>>Could someone refresh the memory of this moron on the formula for this
>>stuff...I'm working on a low tech colony ship using FF&S primitive drives,
>>and I want to see what kind of performance is needed - ie, can it be done.
>>
>>Thanks.
>>
>>*sigh* I can't believe I've forgotten how to do this. *THWAP* *THWAP*
>>*THWAP* (sound of head hitting desk).
>
> You should be ashamed, don't you know how to use a web search tool?
>
> V=AT^2
>
> or Velocity equals Acceleration times Time, Squared.
>
> My Physics doesn't tell me if it matters, but I remember this formula
> definitely works when units are V in Meters/sec, Accel in Meters per sec
> per sec (aka per sec squared) and Time is in seconds.
>
> So lessee
>
> A = .4G which is 4m/sec^2  (I hope I remember correctly that 1G=10 m/s^2)
> T = 32 hours, or 115,200 seconds.
>
> V = 4*115,200^2
>
> V = 4*13,271,040,000
>
> V = 53,084,160,000 m/s or 53,084,160 km/sec or 14,745 km/hour
>

Alas, the above is *wrong. Just check the units.

V is in m/s. A is in m/s^2, and T is in s. That gives us:

m/s = (m/s^2) * s^2
m/s = m*s^2/s^2
m/s = m

Doesn't balance. 

The formula for *distance* is D=.5*A*T^2.
m = (m/s^2) * s^2
m = m*s^2/s^2
m = m

The formula for *velocity* is V=A*T
m/s = (m/s^2) * s
m/s = m*s/s^2
m/s = m/s

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:21:25 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Major and Minor Human Races and a warning to Kenji?

In mail you write:

> Andrew Boulton wrote:
>
>>> Must be a flashback.  Them and those pink Vargr.
>>
>>There was a Vargr in my campaign who went around in combat armour
>>painted bright pink...
>
> SEEE???  So I'm _NOT_ crazy!!!  IT was REEALLLL!!!!
>
> Hmmm.... punk Vargrs wouldn't wear studded collars... maybe little bow
> ties?  Chartreuse velveteen, of course.  With burgundy polka-dots.  And
> instead of body piercing and tattoos... whisker mascara?

They can go a *lot* farther with "spiked hair" and shaved/colored hair
patterns.

And given how important scent likely is, I expect that they'd *really*
be into colognes and perfumes, perhaps with odors that humand find
offensive! 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:23:57 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Militias, Missiles, Nukes and Interstellar Economics

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>>And if you are starting a game, and nobody got a Ship benefit, but they
>>have a modest amount of money and lots of engineering skills (plus some
>>legal ones) you might just have them hear about the "orbital junkyard"
>>where lots of older ships are stashed until someone feels like
>>salvaging or scrapping them.  And they can decide to tinker one back
>>into working order. :-)
>>
>>I'm not sure that a solar sail type ship would be compatible with jump
>>drive. But if it was, that'd be a *really* interesting ship. And even
>>if it wasn't, they'd be *very* competetive in a system with several
>>worlds with decent sized populations.
>
> Speak of the devil... I've been tinkering with a very early Sayat "safari
> yacht", jump capable with solar sails.  The sails need to furl in order to
> get into the spherical jump bubble, which is a fun problem.  No fusion,
> TAKAF+, _or_ fission reactor -- all done with fuel cells, batteries, and
> solar panels.  Suitable for encounter as a derelict of some sort.  Also I'm
> looking at ways of building lower-tech, in-system spacecraft.

Who says that jump bubbles are spherical? We know that they are only a
fewmeters from the hull of normal ships, and it's implied that this is
regardless of shape.

So if you can weave a fine lathanum wire grid into the sail and the
support cables, you may be able to go into jump without taking in the
sail. The hard part is keepinf it from collapsing or tangling hile inm
jumpspace. It's possible that a bright spotlight would provide enough
"push" to keep the sail taut.

>>Fission power plants may be popular in such places as well. If you are
>>processing nickel iron asteriods on any sort of large scale, you'll
>>have *tons" of "trace" components like gold and uranium. Heck, if they
>>build fission plants in the belt, I'd not be surprised to see gold
>>being used as shielding!
>
> Definite adventure hooks there, with the right set-up...
>
> On this whole matter of nukephobia, I think there are other ways to create
> "nuclear-free zones" on local planets.  Weird religious beliefs are an
> obvious solution.  My little friends the Sayat consider nuclear physics to
> be a branch of reproductive medicine (or is it the other way around?), for
> example.  Fission reactions are seen as highly inauspicious and unhealthy
> (in a moral and spiritual sense as well as the radiological one), because
> it involves breaking up a nonconsenting, well-adjusted nucleus.  Not an
> ethically acceptable action.  Using these processes to generate power?
> Nonononono!  What sorts of horrible things will happen to the people who
> use that energy, when _they_ try to reproduce?  Bad, bad, bad.

Don't forget that all fissionable isotopes *spontaneously* fission at a
measureable rate. We just encourage them do "do what comes naturally"
more often.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:36:40 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Missles

In mail you write:

> Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:41:45 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard
> Erickson)
>>> Why can't you just give them a mirror finish?
>
>>So if you have a 99% reflective (damn good!) mirror coating, that means
>>that 1% of the pulse is still absorbed. Which is enough to turn the
>>coating into high temp plasma. And in the process, ruin the coating for
>>some distance around the point the laser pulse hit.
>
> So to destroy the missle you have to to get a hit on the same
> spot twice.  And if it is designed to slough off that 1%
> ablitively into space, then it the spot won't be any bigger
> than the laster beam.  It might be enough to get a missle through.

Remember, this is *not* something peacefully evaporating. Due to the
energy levels involved it is *explosively* converted into plasma. With
results much like applying the same amount of energy via an explosive
charge. So that "spot" is going to be *at least* equivalent to a stick
of dynamite going off. 

> Though it really doen't strain realitiy to thing that at
> TL 12 perfect mirror finishes would be possible.

It strains physics pretty badly though. It itt not only has to be
perfect, it has to be so hard it doesn't get scratched *and* it has to
somehow *repel* dust specs, as well as "vapor" from vaporized
materials (otherwise they'll condense on it), 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 00:25:26 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Embarrassing question

In mail you write:

>> So lessee
>> 
>> A = .4G which is 4m/sec^2  (I hope I remember correctly that 1G=10 m/s^2)
>
> Actually its g not G that you want. The value for g ~ 9.8 meters/second^2.
> So you were close enough. As for units it only matters that you be consistent
> with them. For MKS (meters, kilograms, seconds) g~9.8 m/s^2. For feet
> g~32 ft/s^2. And in miles g~6*10^-3 miles/sec^2 = 7.8*10^4 mi/hr^2.
>
> So the velocity at .4g after 32 hours is 1,128,960 m/s ~ 1129 km/s.
> Or roughly 2,496,000 miles/hr.

Nope, you forgot the ".4" Your calc above is for 9.8 m/s^2, not 3.92.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:34:41 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Thrusters

In mail you write:

> I was having a discussion with some friends about Traveller, and we got on
> the subject of the reactionless Thruster. All of us were smart enough to
> realize the problem, so we asked ourselves:
>
> Why does it have to be reactionless? The classic maneuver drive was never
> well defined until SOM - it was just "the drive that moves the ship that
> doesn't take fuel".
>
> Some thought that it must be a gravity drive of some sort, pushing off of
> the various gravity gradients of the system it is in. Of course, that
> introduces a hiccup in the form of varying performance depending on the
> local space-time curvature (read: gravity).

Ok, this one has some serious problems in that the energy required for
a given delta-V depends on your velocity relastive to whatever you are
"pushing" against. This is required for conservation of energy. That
is, if you double your speed you have to use 4 times the energy. <sigh>

If you want to try this, email me and I'll send you the formulas we
derived for Accel, velocity, and time to cover a distance with a
constant expenditure of energy.

> Some of us thought it might be an "exotic particle" drive - that is, some
> generated particle is used as the reaction mass. Of course this has the
> problem that most such particles wouldn't be able to generate the thrust
> necessary, since their mass is so small.

Not true. If the particles have low momentum (not mass, as photons have
a zero rest mass, but can transfer momentum), you just have to use
*more* of them.

> Anyone have any ideas on this? My group wants a decent explanation for the
> thruster unit (doesn't have to be perfect) that fits classic Traveller (our
> campaign setting) - thus HEPlaR is out.

The Classic Traveller rules actually imply a fusion rocket! High Guard
or Striker makes reference to using your exhaust as a weapon!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #23
*********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Wednesday, January 21 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 024



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

final velocity question
Re: *Underwear* Lasers and Missiles: was(Sam's death missiles)
Re: Thrusters
RE: Sigh. Still no change at IG...
Re: More nukes
Re: Guns of the Wild West
Re: Missiles
Former TMLer??? (was: Re: Intercepted...conspiracy)
re: mirror finishes on missiles
Re: Starship With Plans
Some low-tech ship questions...
Re: Starship With Plans
Re: Some low-tech ship questions...
Re: Re: Major and Minor Human Races and a warning to Kenji?
Re: Militias, Missiles, Nukes and Interstellar Economics
re: Dumarest and Traveller
Re:Starship With Plans
Re: Major and Minor Human Races and a warning to Kenji?
Missiles in Space
Re: Religious careers
Re: More nukes

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:56:06 -0000
From: "Del Jones" <dojones@whitestar.u-net.com>
Subject: final velocity question

the equation you are looking for is

v=u+at

where 	v is final velocity (usually in metres per second)
	u is initial velocity (ditto)
	a is accelleration (usually in metres per second per second)
	t is time (usually in seconds)


thus for your question...

v=u+at
v=?
u=0 (presuming craft was at rest at begining)
a=0.4g (g=10ms^-2)(actually 9.8 but who's counting!)
t=32hrs (=32*60*60seconds)(=115200seconds)
v=0+(4x115200)
v=460,800 metres per second
v=468.8km per second
v=468.8x60x60km per hour
v=1,658,880km per hour
wow that's fast!

however it's nowhere near the speed of light (c)
299,792,458 m per second is 1,079,252,849 km per hour
your speed is  1,658,880 / 1,079,252,849 of the speed of light
=0.001537063 times c
= approximately 0.154% c.

hope this helps.
Note the important thing is the units. keep them the same standard, and
it's easy.
now maybe that difference in the number for 'g' might be relevant!


Derrick Jones
St Helens
Lancashire UK
dojones@whitestar.u-net.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 07:31:07 -0600
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Re: *Underwear* Lasers and Missiles: was(Sam's death missiles)

At 01:06 AM 1/21/98 -0700, Merrick Burkhardt wrote:
> 
>> >>Is this [PD laser] using the optional *grav* focussed array?
>> >The TL-12 version was grav focussed (which is not optional in canonical
>> >Traveller...). You can design a very nice TL-13 X-ray non-grav-focus
>> >if you like.
>> 
>> Hmm grav focused lasers was an option in FFS1, and either or choice in
>> FFS2, not In MT or CT.
> 
>I think you missed his point. Laser weapons in CT and MT were
>effective at ranges that are only possible with something like grav
>focussing. It isn't explicit, but it makes sense given the
>long-ranged direct fire combat in CT and MT.

But then by the same standard, so to speak, plasma weapons were usuable in
MT and CT was short ranged weapons. Why can't they have a hand wave gizmo too?

>>snip<<
>All that said, I dig big ole missiles. I like to call them torpedos
>if they get much bigger than a ton or two, though :-)

Yes that would be a better term of usage, but I thank I left at as option
in the description for the Bubba's.


- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:32:26 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Thrusters

>It's hard to imagine a device that can accelerate a significant mass (a
>mass that you could actually notice if you held it in your hand -- which
>is what the fuel rates indicate) to a near-c velocity over a distance of
>just a few meters.  However, over many thousands of meters it might be
>possible.  If the maneuver drive projected some kind of gravimetric tunnel
>out behind the ship, which acted to continuously accelerate the reaction
>mass over many kilometers of distance, the final emission velocity might
>approach that of light.  Presto!  A reaction drive so fuel-efficient it
>makes HEPlaR look like a gas guzzler.

You'd also have to match the power consumtion figures which I assure you
would break gloriously. TANSTAFL reigns sumpreme (at least in the real
world).


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 08:39:27 -0600
From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com>
Subject: RE: Sigh. Still no change at IG...

On Wednesday, 21 January 1998 05:09, Peter Newman
[SMTP:pnewman@alaska.net] wrote:
> FKiesche <FKiesche@aol.com> wrote
> At the game
> store I order for, Bosco's [and most everywhere else]
> 
> www.boscos.com

Ahhh, Bosco's.  I dropped many a dollar in that store.  They became my
gaming store of choice after Spenard Hobby went out of business ( I
*still* miss them - bought my first copy of Traveller at Spenard Hobby).


Memories...


- -Vanya                                                      UPP-8D9B85
Traveller ---------------- Science Fiction Adventure in the Far Future
Meyers-Briggs personality type:ENTJ              | vanya@partyline.net
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with."     | dmoody@bridge.com
 ----------------------- The Future is in Beta -----------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:42:38 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: More nukes

>The way to permanently remove the radiation is to *speed up* decay. And
>doing that on *fissionables*, rather than "fallout" or "waste" while
>result in a *huge* explosion (several times the normal yeild).
>
>There's no other way that dampers, given their description *can*
>permanently neutralize radioactivity.
>
>So when using them to clean up after a nuke strike, figure that there
>will be a large "flash" of radiation as all the decay happens at once.

I asked earlier if it was reasonable to use nuclear dampers for shutting
down fusion plants (it was not) but one could arguable use them to detonate
your enemies nuclear warheads if range allows. Any ideas on the range of
nuclear dampers? Mercenaries (and Striker?) has their range being a mutiple
of the separation between the generators which is a bit too good to be true
but...


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 07:41:22 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Guns of the Wild West

Warning...utterly off topic post

Leonard said:

> >Oh, I think he just mis-posted. It was actually destined for
> >rec.humor.funny, but got here instead. Particularly interesting was the
> >instruction to continue to wash the boiled rotten piss and shit until
> >the liquid coming off was no longer bitter to the taste.
> 
> Actually, it's all true.  Birringuchio's book, Pyrotechnia, is available
> in reprint from Dover books, and is a good book to buy for historical
> pespectives...  Actually, I left out the most interesting part...  in
> Birringuchio, the recipie says to leach until it no longer tastes bitter
> to YOUR APPRENTICE.  [caps mine].

That reminds me. I once worked as a quality control chemist for Avon (the
cosmetics people). We tested the raw ingredients in our lab, and every
different ingredient had a series of tests to do, some on every container, 
shipment, lot, etc. On of the things we had to test on every lot was the
refined lanolin, a _taste_ test to make sure it wasn't rancid.

 Now refined lanolin doesn't _quite_ smell like a sheep camp at the end of
summer, but it's pretty close. Avon had about 6 labs around the world
doing this testing...we use to spend _lots_ of long distance time calling
all the other labs to see if someone had tested that lot already...

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:37:55 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Missiles

>Weapons grade lasers turn a "mirror finish" to junk. While we can get
>99.9% (I think) reflectivity on things like telescope mirrors, you
>can't put that on a missile, partly because of expense, and partly
>because it won't *stay* that reflective in the sort of environment a
>missile is stored and launched in.

I thought missiles were stored in industrial vacuum at low temperatures to
make their IR sigs small when launched. As for their launch envirinment:
They're launched into space which make industrial vacuum seem dense by
comparison.

I do agree that mirriring missiles would not work very well as the first
hit may reflect a lot and the rest would vaporize some of the mirror
surface which would then condense upon the missile and ruining the rest of
the surface when further hits come along. Condensing vaporized metal also
does not so nice things to the missiles comms and sensors...


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:42:33 +0000
From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Carlos_Al=F3s-Ferrer?=" <Carlos.Alos-Ferrer@univie.ac.at>
Subject: Former TMLer??? (was: Re: Intercepted...conspiracy)

> From: Peter Newman <pnewman@ALASKA.Net>
>> Whats next, a proof of how jump engines are powered by sacred
>> geometry?

>Well Carlos Alos-Ferrer  a Mathematician and former TMLer posted 
>this Jump Drive Theory last spring that seems to meet your
>specifications
(massive snip of one old post of mine)

	Former? FORMER? What do you mean, former? I am still here! Well, in 
fact I just changed countries, from Spain to Austria (I live now in 
Vienna), and so I have been pretty busy in the last months.
	Btw, before moving I asked whether there was any austrian TMLr 
around or not, but received no answer. Given that you quote me 
(thanks, Peter), I´ll jump into the opportunity of asking again:

	Anybody here from Vienna? Anybody knows any FLGS in Vienna?

	Thanks,

	Carlos, a.k.a. the Geonee-maker ;-)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:47:46 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: re: mirror finishes on missiles

>(And that's ignoring the issue of whether you can keep a surface
>99.9% even in hard vacuum - and it has to be that reflective all  the
>way from the UV to near-IR.)
>
>Bruce

That being dense plasma behaves lie a very good metal ie reflects photons
quite good? I think I saw something about that problem while Reagans Star
Wars fantasy was discussed by scientists. I guess it has to do with pulse
length - the shorter the pulse the harder for the plasma to shield.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 07:46:19 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Starship With Plans

hey send it along! thanks!

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


On Tue, 20 Jan 1998, John Toth wrote:

> Hi Guys... and Gals,
> 
> I was wondering if I could get some Help.
> I have just finished making a 400ton Searching Trader (Far Ranger) with the 
> corresponding Deckplans and was wondering if I could get some feedback on 
> it. The Ship was made with Mr. Andrew Akins FF&S2 (Grrreat) spreadsheet and 
> the plans with Visio 4.  The File has been put to a Word file from Office 
> 97 and is 284 kb so I really don't want to Jam the list.  If anyone want's 
> to get it, I will be more than happy to send it to you.
> Thanks for all of your help.
> 
> John Toth
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 08:51:04 -0600
From: "Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: Some low-tech ship questions...

I apologize if this got sent out multiple times - my mail system is acting
flaky...

Wow...designing low tech ships are hard...maybe thats why NASA hasn't
designed a starship yet :P

I'm still working on my low-tech colony ship, and I have some questions...
What is the feasability of the various fuel types lasting in tanks for
centuries?

I ask, of course, because a colony ship's flight time could well be measured
in centuries, and the power plant (at the very least) would need to continue
running (if only to support the low berths). Also, if the ship is gonna
stop, it needs to save roughly half its drive fuel for the turnaround and
deceleration portion. It was my understanding that liquid hydrogen would
boil off or bleed out of the tanks eventually.

Is that true? What about deuterium, the fuel for low-tech fusion drives.

And for fission drives - what's the half-life of their fuel? Would their
stores still be good after centuries?

I'm assuming my thermonuclear pulse pellets, being solid, would still be
okay.

The biggest problem I'm running into now is power. I got my design worked
out so that it requires just under 20MW of power. Sounds simple. Just drop
in a small 20MW fission reactor. Works like a charm (this is at TL9).
The problem is mass, particularly for the fuel. A true generation/sleeper
ship is going to need fuel in the range of centuries/millenia - and
radioactives are HEAVY. When I put in 2000 years worth of radioactives on
the ship (which brings up a whole slew of problems, I know...but that's
beside the point), the power plant fuel is nearly 2/3 the mass of the ship.

None of the other power sources work well - fusion is too big at TL9, and
none of the other types are rated in years. Is there a way to have a closed
circuit fuel cell? You know, the kind that generates water as its reaction,
then re-cracks the water along the way to reuse the fuel. Or is the power to
crack the water prohibitive. Could you have a fuel-cell/battery combo that
was constantly cracking/combining water? I imagine the plant would have be
bigger than 20MW, to handle the inefficiency. But this still might be a
better idea...

Note: I'm not an engineer or scientist, so if this is way off base, I
apologize for offending people's sensibilities :)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:55:14 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Starship With Plans

>Hi Guys... and Gals,
>
>I was wondering if I could get some Help.
>I have just finished making a 400ton Searching Trader (Far Ranger) with the
>corresponding Deckplans and was wondering if I could get some feedback on
>it. The Ship was made with Mr. Andrew Akins FF&S2 (Grrreat) spreadsheet and
>the plans with Visio 4.  The File has been put to a Word file from Office
>97 and is 284 kb so I really don't want to Jam the list.  If anyone want's
>to get it, I will be more than happy to send it to you.
>Thanks for all of your help.
>
>John Toth

Yes, send it to me (if MS Ugh hasn't changed the vector art into bitmap or
something).


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:41:26 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Some low-tech ship questions...

>I ask, of course, because a colony ship's flight time could well be measured
>in centuries, and the power plant (at the very least) would need to continue
>running (if only to support the low berths). Also, if the ship is gonna
>stop, it needs to save roughly half its drive fuel for the turnaround and
>deceleration portion. It was my understanding that liquid hydrogen would
>boil off or bleed out of the tanks eventually.
>
>Is that true? What about deuterium, the fuel for low-tech fusion drives.

If you can keep the cooling apparatus working you can keep the LHyd there
forever.
There's no differance for deuterium.

>The biggest problem I'm running into now is power. I got my design worked
>out so that it requires just under 20MW of power. Sounds simple. Just drop
>in a small 20MW fission reactor. Works like a charm (this is at TL9).
>The problem is mass, particularly for the fuel. A true generation/sleeper
>ship is going to need fuel in the range of centuries/millenia - and
>radioactives are HEAVY. When I put in 2000 years worth of radioactives on
>the ship (which brings up a whole slew of problems, I know...but that's
>beside the point), the power plant fuel is nearly 2/3 the mass of the ship.

What do you need power for besides the low passages? How many colonists are
you sending and how many will be awake to do maintenance etc. This is
really interesting stuff, keep up updated on your project.

>None of the other power sources work well - fusion is too big at TL9, and
>none of the other types are rated in years. Is there a way to have a closed
>circuit fuel cell? You know, the kind that generates water as its reaction,
>then re-cracks the water along the way to reuse the fuel. Or is the power to
>crack the water prohibitive. Could you have a fuel-cell/battery combo that
>was constantly cracking/combining water? I imagine the plant would have be
>bigger than 20MW, to handle the inefficiency. But this still might be a
>better idea...

A closed circuit fuel cell would (of course) be impossible. You need more
power to crack the water than you'd get from uncracking it in the fuel
cell.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 07:45:44 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Re: Major and Minor Human Races and a warning to Kenji?

Peter Newman wrote:

>> Hmmm.... punk Vargrs wouldn't wear studded collars... maybe little bow
>> ties?  Chartreuse velveteen, of course.  With burgundy polka-dots.  And
>> instead of body piercing and tattoos... whisker mascara?
>
>In my Third Imperium studded collars, little bow ties of chartreuse
>velveteen with burgundy polka-dots, and whisker mascara ar what
>therespectable business Vargr wear.  It should be fairly obvious that no
>Vargr is going to be able to shock other Vargr through ther clothing
>choices.  Punk Vargr typically go in for largescale dying and/or shaving
>of their fur.  This is out of the mainstream because it alters the way
>that the fur is used as a social communications device which is
>important to the statuc conscious Vargr.  Normal everyday Vargr may go
>in for perms, weaves, ribbons, etc in their fur but will not alter the
>fur itself to any great degree.

I guess I'd been thinking that large-scale dyeing, shaving, braiding,
dread-ing, etc. _were_ mainstream Vargr stuff -- or at least "high fashion"
styles.  Your disaffected underclass Vargr pup rebels by trying to look
like a respectable elderly Solomani banker.  Without much success, of
course, but it's the thought that counts.


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 07:45:48 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Militias, Missiles, Nukes and Interstellar Economics

Leonard Erickson wrote:

>In mail you write:

>> Speak of the devil... I've been tinkering with a very early Sayat "safari
>> yacht", jump capable with solar sails.  The sails need to furl in order to
>> get into the spherical jump bubble, which is a fun problem.  No fusion,
>> TAKAF+, _or_ fission reactor -- all done with fuel cells, batteries, and
>> solar panels.  Suitable for encounter as a derelict of some sort.  Also I'm
>> looking at ways of building lower-tech, in-system spacecraft.
>
>Who says that jump bubbles are spherical? We know that they are only a
>fewmeters from the hull of normal ships, and it's implied that this is
>regardless of shape.

Ah, that's part of my local-color handwave for the Sayat.  They use a
different jump technology (same "jumpspace" as the Impy dogs, just
different machine to get there) which creates a perfectly spherical jump
bubble, only.

>So if you can weave a fine lathanum wire grid into the sail and the
>support cables, you may be able to go into jump without taking in the
>sail. The hard part is keepinf it from collapsing or tangling hile inm
>jumpspace. It's possible that a bright spotlight would provide enough
>"push" to keep the sail taut.

Cool... allows unpleasant captains to send the ratings out to check the
rigging in mid-jump <G>

>Don't forget that all fissionable isotopes *spontaneously* fission at a
>measureable rate. We just encourage them do "do what comes naturally"
>more often.

Yeah, I know.  This is a description of culturally-specific common sense,
though, not of "objective reality".


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:56:13 +0000
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: re: Dumarest and Traveller

Many, many thanks to whoever it was that started off the thread about E.C.
Tubb and Dumarest.  Thanks too to Bloo who provided the handy booklist.

Inspired by this, I wondered off to a local second hand bookshop - the
delightful kind where the book are piled high all over the place and you
usually need to wash your hands thoroughly after you've visited and the
little old lady staffing the shop wouldn't care two hoots if you set up
base camp on the first floor for an assault on the higher shelves towards
the back - in the hope that they might have some of the series.

Lo and behold, the very first in the series - The Winds of Gath -was there.
I quickly bought and devoured it on the bus home last night in just and
hour and three quarters.  Excellent, and as promised all those Traveller
like features that made me feel I was actually reading a decent Traveller
novel:

Low Passage (Tubb gave his Low Travellers a 15% chance of dying which is
just about the CT roll of 5+)
High Passage
Fast drug
Slow drug
Medicine drug
Nobles
Matriarchal societies
Vast empire spanning thousands of worlds


Needless to say, I returned today to obtain later volumes in the series.
(Sadly only a half dozen or so).  If anyone wants one of the 4 copies of
The Winds of Gath that was kicking around over there, I'd be willing to buy
one and post it.  (I'm guessing it would be $10 inc post and packing to the
States).  Let me know if you can't track one down locally and would like
it.


Interestingly enough, given that Tubb is a UK author it would explain the
spelling of Traveller with two 'l's.  He refers several times in the first
volume to Travellers being a breed apart.  Evidently Marc was influenced by
the milieu and adopted Tubb's spelling as well.

Anyway, thanks again for starting me off on the Dumarest saga and if anyone
else out there hasn't tried it - take it from a new convert, at least give
the first one a shot, you won't be disappointed!

tc

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:59:50 +0000
From: "Ashley.greenall" <ashley.greenall@virgin.net>
Subject: Re:Starship With Plans

I was wondering if I could get some Help.
I have just finished making a 400ton Searching Trader (Far Ranger) with the
corresponding Deckplans and was wondering if I could get some feedback on
it. The Ship was made with Mr. Andrew Akins FF&S2 (Grrreat) spreadsheet and
the plans with Visio 4.  The File has been put to a Word file from Office
97 and is 284 kb so I really don't want to Jam the list.  If anyone want's
to get it, I will be more than happy to send it to you.
Thanks for all of your help.

John Toth

I'd like a copy very much.

Thanks in advance.

Ash.

- -Money can't buy love.  But it CAN rent a very close imitation.-

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:58:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Scott Taylor <izzylobo@faerealm.faerealm.com>
Subject: Re: Major and Minor Human Races and a warning to Kenji?

Leonard Erickson opined; 
> In mail you write:
> > Andrew Boulton wrote:
> >>> Must be a flashback.  Them and those pink Vargr.
> >>There was a Vargr in my campaign who went around in combat armour
> >>painted bright pink...
> > SEEE???  So I'm _NOT_ crazy!!!  IT was REEALLLL!!!!
> > Hmmm.... punk Vargrs wouldn't wear studded collars... maybe little bow
> > ties?  Chartreuse velveteen, of course.  With burgundy polka-dots.  And
> > instead of body piercing and tattoos... whisker mascara?
> They can go a *lot* farther with "spiked hair" and shaved/colored hair
> patterns.
> 
> And given how important scent likely is, I expect that they'd *really*
> be into colognes and perfumes, perhaps with odors that humand find
> offensive! 

Given what our *unevolved* puppy companions find acceptable, even 
interesting and sexy, in terms of odors (my Husky once found her way into 
an old vat that was used to age cheese whey... BLEARRGGHH!) I'd say this 
was quite possible (though it might be interesting to have them intrigued 
by the same sort of scents we do... thus, when the players, on their 
first run into Vargr space on one of the first trading missions, bring 
plenty of Eau de PoissonMort, thinking to outsmart their GM, they can be 
in for a real shock).

(a worst-case scenario)
"fast thinking" Solomani trader; "And we brought perfumes!" (holds out 
spary bottle)

<sniff>

<sounds of Vargr painfully retching in corner, as traders look on in horror>

<Vargr translator dutifully notes that "perfume" translates into Vargr 
equivalent of "Mace/retch gas">

(we will delete the resultant debates/criminal trial as "fast-thinking" 
Traders are tried for importing chemical weapons to a foreign power...)

Scott Taylor
Freelancer for Hire
Have Mac, Will Travel

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:05:49 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Missiles in Space

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/21/98 04:05 PM

<<
> IIRC from my training in feedback control theory, lo these many years ago,
> that's the easiest/cheapest way to build a seeker head anyway - it spirals
> in on the perfect intercept course. Also I think I saw IR SAMs doing this
> on the newscasts from Afghanistan...
But in space, such a course is *hideously* expensive in terms of
delta-V. It requires a large *radial* thrust.
>>

Hmmm... your argument has merit! However if the target is evading (and most
will be) you will still get some angle-off from that movement, which you
can use for course correction.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 08:19:34 PST
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Religious careers

<<----Original Message Follows----
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>

How about arangement or heirarchy or structure or TO (altho' I'm not 
sure what that stands for, perhaps one of our retired (or current) 
military members will tell us as in TO).>>

TO is the acronym for Table of Organization, the "official" listing of 
what individuals make up the organization if it is manned a full 
strength.  Sometimes you might hear of TO&E which is the TO with the 
listing of organic Equipment for the organization.

Cheers,

Greg
The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:54:59 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: More nukes

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:

>The way to permanently remove the radiation is to *speed up* decay. And
>doing that on *fissionables*, rather than "fallout" or "waste" while
>result in a *huge* explosion (several times the normal yeild).
>
>There's no other way that dampers, given their description *can*
>permanently neutralize radioactivity.

Doesn't the old CT Mercenary description of dampers imply they can cause a
premature explosion *or* suppress a reaction?

>Breeder reactors are a special design. They are actually only worth the
>trouble if you want to build a stockpile of weapons, or if you don't
>have fusion, and are running low on fissionables.

And you like playing with liquid sodium....


>Their advantage is that you can *chemically* seperate the Pu. But you
>still have to deal with the *highly* radioactive used fuel rods.

Chemical separation of waste from fuel rods (Pu/U/waste) is a reality from
current reactor material. In the UK Sizewell B (our first and only
commercial power PWR) the first reactor load out was with recycled
material.

>Most reactor designs that you'd design for the purpose of produciung
>power are *lousy* at making Pu. It's just that most US and Soviet
>reactor designs are based on reactors designed for the express
>*purpose* of producing Pu. Other designs, such as the Canadian CANDU
>reactors are much safer and don't produce Pu.

The UK AGR was a damn fine reactor  (>42% efficient with online refueling)
*once* they stopped changing the design with each new station.
Unfortunately, the decision to buy a Westinghouse design to replace them
was already taken by her who must be obeyed.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #24
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Wednesday, January 21 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 025



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Speaking Of Minis...
Real Life Fusion
re: lasers and mirror finishes
Re: Major and Minor Human Races
Re: Major and Minor Human Races
Re: Thrusters
the missile debate continues
Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography
Re: Religious careers
Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography
Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography
Missiles and Reflection
Re: Missiles
Re: Major and Minor Human Races and a warning to Kenji?
Re: *Underwear* Lasers and Missiles: was(Sam's death missiles)
Re: Major and Minor Human Races and a warning to Kenji?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 21 Jan 98 12:21:29 EST
From: Jeffery.M.Miller@Dartmouth.EDU (Jeffery M. Miller)
Subject: Speaking Of Minis...

In the heyday (!) of the 15mm RalPartha stuff I ran across some really great
minis of people in battledress, etc. The suits went up to some really bulky
units and down to basic combat armour/battledress with cool weapons and figures
in various poses. I saw some of these in a pic in some demonstration of
miniatures combat resolution (The caption was something to the effect of "the
crew of the bridge are in for a nsty surprise...") showing some of these units
in play.

I think they may have been associated with some series of minis called
'FireFight' or th like. Does anyone have any of these? remember them? info?
Caches of these for sale? I have 3 or 4 left from my intial buy still banging
around in my very worn copy of CT Snapshot, and would love more (if only for
the nostalgia...)

Thanks in advance for any info!

- -j

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:37:02 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Real Life Fusion

This is slightly off topic, but less so than many other topics on this list.

As many of you know, I work at MIT's Plasma Science and Fusion Center.
Once a year at MIT the institute holds what is know as the "Independent
Activity Period".  The idea is to allow students and staff to explore other
educational opportunities at MIT.  There are lots of one-day seminars,
tours, and other activities which are perfect for lay-persons to get an
introduction to the subjects taught or researched at different departments.


Below this message is my department's schedule.  PSFC opens it's talks to
the public at large and I want to personally invite all the folks on this
list who are in the area (or want to travel) to attend.

The particularly interesting events are (1) Tours of Alcator C-Mod, an
experimental fusion reactor (well, really its an experimental plasma
containment chamber, but why split hairs?) on 1/22 at 2:00pm, and Tour of
the ITER Central Solenoid Model Coil Fabrication Site, the beginning of
another Fusion Reactor's construciton on January 27, at 2:00 pm.

Location is at the MIT PSFC, on Albany St, in Cambridge, MA.  Email or call
me for details and directions if needed.

Pete


>PLASMA SCIENCE & FUSION CENTER IAP OPEN HOUSE
>
>
>WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 21
>
>Alcator C-Mod and the Tokamak Approach to Fusion
>Dr. Earl Marmar
>Wednesday, January 21, 10:00 am, NW17-218
>
>THURSDAY, JANUARY 22
>
>LDX: A New Experiment to Build a Star
>Dr. Michael Mauel
>Thursday, January 22, 11:00 am, NW17-218
>
>Tours of Alcator C-Mod and Versatile Toroidal Facility (VTF)
>Thomas Pedersen, Ryan Riddolls
>Thursday, January 22, 2:00 pm, NW17-218
>
>
>FRIDAY, JANUARY 23
>
>LIGO: A Laser Interferometer Gravitational-Wave Observatory
>Dr. Peter Fritschel
>Friday, January 23, 10:00 am, NW17-218
>
>CANCELLED: Why Does a Motor Turn, and What Does This Have to do with Fusion?
>Prof. Jeffrey Freidberg
>Friday, January 23, 11:00 am, NW17-218
>
>Compact Hydrogen Generation For Vehicles
>Dr. Daniel R. Cohn
>Friday, January 23, 2:00 pm, NW17-218
>
>
>MONDAY, JANUARY 26
>
>Energy: An Environmental Problem and a Development Solution: U.S. R&D Programs
>Dr. John Ahearne
>Monday, January 26, 10:00 am, NW17-218
>
>Where Does Plasma Science and Fusion Energy Fit in the National Agenda?
>Tobin Smith
>Monday, January 26, 11:00 am, NW17-218
>
>The Mr. Magnet Hour: Effective Teaching Through Hands-On Experience
>Paul Thomas (Mr. Magnet)
>Monday, January 26, 1:00 pm, NW17-218
>
>
>TUESDAY, JANUARY 27
>
>Boiling the Vacuum Using Relativistic Heavy Ion Collisions
>Dr. Wit Busza
>Tuesday, January 27, 10:00 am, NW17-218
>
>
>Laser Plasma Interaction Issues for Fusion
>Dr. Juan Fernandez
>Tuesday, January 27, 11:00 am, NW17-218
>
>
>Superconducting Magnets for Fusion: What's the Attraction?
>Dr. Jay Jayakumar
>Tuesday, January 27, 1:00 pm, NW17-218
>
>Tour of the ITER Central Solenoid Model Coil Fabrication Site
>Dr. Jay Jayakumar
>Tuesday, January 27, 2:00 pm, NW17-218
>
>
>
>Introduction to Gas Discharge Plasma Physics
>Dr. Sergei Krasheninnikov
>Monday-Friday, January 26, 2:00 pm; January 27--30, 11 am, NW16-213,
>>krash@rex.pfc.mit.edu, 3-0478


Peter H. Brenton
MIT's Plasma Science and Fusion Center
(617) 253-3185
pbrenton@mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 09:48:10 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: lasers and mirror finishes

>Well,  I'm not so sure about the guaranteed vaporization.  But
>it brings up another question.  Why not have the first hit
>vaporize a cloud in front of the target which the rest of the
>pulse simply heats to some pointless temperature?

That's part of why the laser pulses are so short - there's no time
for such a cloud to form and expand and decouple from the substance.
Whether the traveller laser damage rules are reasonable overall is
harder for me to evaluate, but the basic principle is sound.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 18:02 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Major and Minor Human Races

In-Reply-To: <v01510110b0e8b5249d77@[209.43.128.174]>

Kenji,

> >Human Races of the Imperium (a partial list).
> [snip]
> >Minor   Sylean (inhabits the territory around Core).
> >        Azhanti
> >        Fiorin
> >        Geonee (their culture emphasized technology).
> >        Acheron
> >        Suerrat
> >        Illurian
> >        Luriani
>  
> I'm sort of fond of future anthropology, and managed to assemble the
> following list of published Ancient-transplanted human populations over
> time:
>  
> Name         Homeworld/Sector        Citation
> Answerin     Answerin/Vland          Vilani & Vargr
> Cafadan      ? Corridor              Traveller Digest ?  also on WWW?
> Darmine      Irap? /Zarushagar       ?
> Darrian      Darrian/S.Marches       um... since way back when.
> Floriani     ? Trojan Reaches        Traveller Digest ? [as someone else
>        suggested recently, perhaps these are the "Fiorin" mentioned above? It.
>        "fiori" ~ Lat. "florae"]
> Dynchia      Melantris/Leonidae (or Crucis Margin?)   JTAS
> Issugar      ? near Zho. Consulate   Alien Realms
> Mal'Gnar     ? The Beyond            The Beyond sector book
> Tapazmal     ? Reft                  Traveller Digest ?
> Thaggeshi    Thaggesh/Vland          Vilani & Vargr
> Vlazhdumecta (also Vlazhumecta?)
>              ? Far Frontiers         ? canon; part of HIWG-Yiklerdanzh writeup
> Zairis       ? Glimmerdrift Reaches  Glimmerdrift Reaches book
>  
> No longer with us are:
> *Khula ?     Khula/Vland             Vilani & Vargr     (extinct)
> *Loeskalth   ? Gushmege              Sky Raiders Trilogy (extinct)
>  
> And I'm not sure if these are Grampy's or not, but:
> *Iltharans   ? Reaver's Deep         Double Adventure 6
 
We know there are ~46 of them.

Clayton R. Bush & Bryan Borich have compiled a list (see 
http://members.aol.com/kagekiha/traveller/racelist.htm ), which gives:

MINOR HUMAN RACE       SOURCE*    HOMEWORLD
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
*Altareans       Chuck Kallenbach, Vanguard Reaches   Subsector N
 Answerin       Travellers' Digest 5    Vland 0431 Answerin/Parsi
*Azhanti       James Maliszewski    Antares 2315 Irale/Gimgir
?Bye-Ren       Aliens Archive    Bye-ren-ay-Deltii
 Cafadans       Travellers' Digest 3    Corridor 3135 Cafad/Sashrakusha
 Darrians       Alien Module 8    Spinward Marches 0627
Darrian/Darrian
*Darmine       Darmine cultual region    Zarushagar 1323 Ishag/Liasdi
?Dynchia       Journal 24    Leonidae 0633 Melantris/Yuddunn
 Floriani       Travellers' Digest 23    Trojan Reach 0213 
Floria/Yggdrasil
 Geonee       Travellers' Digest 11    Massilia 1430 Shiwonee/Shiwonee
 Halkans       Travellers' Digest 20 p8    Trojan Reach 0510 
Halka/Menorial
 Happirhva       Far Traveller 2    Reaver's Deep 1218 
Rejhappur/Scotian Deep
 Irhadre       Grand Census?    Lishun 0935 Chanadre/Welling
 Issugur       Alien Realms p3    Iakr Parthinia
*Kaggushus       Proposed by Clay Bush
 Lancia       Imperial Encyclopedia    Gushemege 2207 Irkhi/Taapv
*Liberts       Proposed by Clay Bush    Old Expanses Nullia
 Loeskalth       Skyraiders trilogy    Gushemege M
*Menetha       J. Kundert (Farstar)|?|
 Otrai       JTAS 13 p10
+Ronni       Flaming Eye
 Suerrat       Alien Module 8    Ilelish 1710 Volomil/Miitan
 Syleans       Travellers' Digest 9    Core Capital
 Tapazmal       Travellers' Digest 20 p27    Reft 3134Dlaejen/Moibin
?Tekundu       Aliens Archive    Yulanii
 Thaggeshi       Vilani & Vargr p18    Vland 2530 Thaggesh/Anakod
 Vlazhdumecta       Sky Raiders trilogy
*Yileans       Mike Mikesh    Gashikan 2732 
Gashikan/Gashilean
*Ziadd       Duncan Law-Green    Dagudashaag 0721Zeda/Zeda
 Urunishani
 
"*" Indicates unofficial. "?" or "[]" indicate as yet unnamed races, or unmapped locations. 
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 18:02 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Major and Minor Human Races

In-Reply-To: <80ce976d.34c3cd36@aol.com>

CardSharks,

> Human Races of the Imperium (a partial list).
>  
> Major Vilani
> Major Zhodani
> Major Solomani

I think at least one of those would object violently to being referred 
to as "a race of the Imperium"!
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:07:22 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thrusters

From: Anders Backman <anders.backman@aniware.se>


>>It's hard to imagine a device that can accelerate a significant mass (a
>>mass that you could actually notice if you held it in your hand -- which
>>is what the fuel rates indicate) to a near-c velocity over a distance of
>>just a few meters.  However, over many thousands of meters it might be
>>possible.  If the maneuver drive projected some kind of gravimetric tunnel
>>out behind the ship, which acted to continuously accelerate the reaction
>>mass over many kilometers of distance, the final emission velocity might
>>approach that of light.  Presto!  A reaction drive so fuel-efficient it
>>makes HEPlaR look like a gas guzzler.

I have imagined just such an engine, while reading the above.  What if you
were to arrange 4 sections of artificial gravity grids as illustrated below:
____________________
|>                       v  v  v  v  v |
|>                                         |
|>                                         |
|>                                         |
|>                                         |
|                                         <|
|                                         <|
|                                         <|
|                                         <|
|_^_^_^_^_^_________<|

Then place a coil of tubing inside the grid arangement.  As the fuel
(expectorant?) moved around the tube, it would accellerate.  Viola, you have
the system described above.  Actually, I think I would use two coils with an
inlet on either end and the outlets on the opposit ends.

>You'd also have to match the power consumtion figures which I assure you
>would break gloriously. TANSTAFL reigns sumpreme (at least in the real
>world).

Let's see, if the ship you mounted the X-engine (anyone got a better name,
I'm open to suggestions), were 10 m wide and you wanted the grids to be say
1 m wide, it would take up 40 cumet plus 3x.003x40=.36 cumet for the
equipment  The power requirement (at TL 12) would be .36x.7=.252 MW.  Let's
see what we get out of it.  The acceleration is not uniform.  If I
understand how these things work properly, it would be between 0 and 1 times
the grid strength (3 G).  I think the proper mathematics escapes me just
now.  However, I have had another thought, why use 4 1x10 grids when you
could use a larger number of narrower grids set perpendicular to a set of
tangents of the tube.  (I know I've lost some of you, but hang on.)

That will require more thought.  Let's say for the sake of argument that you
could get the average acceleration up to 25 m/s/s and the inside of the tube
was 14 square cm in cross-section, with a wall thickness of say 2 mm, then
the tube would be c. 2.111/3 cm i.d./o.d.  It would have a center length of
over 2 km (c. 2,063.0 m).

Let's see, the formula given in several posts of late was D=A/2xTxT.  So,
T=SQR(2D/A)=
SQR(2 x  c. 2063/25)=SQR(c 165)=c 12.85 seconds.  Hmmm, V=AT=25 x c.
12.85=c. 321 m/s.  That's not very fast.  I know let's put coils inside of
coils (after all there's a lot of empty space in there...  So, if I wanted 2
that would be +1.91... 3 would be +1.85, 4 +1.79, 5 +1.73 let's say we go
down to .95 that would give us...  (1.97-.95)/.03= 34 coils with an average
length of (1.97+.95)Pi/2=c. 9.17 m then multiply by 34x1000/3 gives an over
all length of c. 104.0 km (103,966 m)  That's better.

T=SQR(2D/A)=SQR(103,966X2/25)=c. 8,317 seconds : V=AT=8,317x25=c. 207,932
m/s/s

(watching a creative mind at work is scary isn't it)

still not enough.

Your right, it won't work on these scales.  However, IF you were building on
a large asteroid...

Never mind, that's another thread.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:12:26 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: the missile debate continues

Sam of the "Jeune Ecole" wrote
>Hmm grav focused lasers was an option in FFS1, and either or choice in
>FFS2, not In MT or CT.

Look, *every* kind of traveller has long-range lasers; you have to allow
me to use them in defending against missiles or you're just not playing
Traveller. It's just that it wasn't until TNE that they realized such
lasers violated the laws of physics and had to introduce grav focus to
explain them. And in FFS1, while it does call it an "option", it states
explicitly that it's an option that's part of the mainstream Imperial
Traveller universe.

>This has been discussed on the GDW Beta list. Very few missiles will
>approach at such an angle to give your PD battery 0 degree angle on all
>three axii(sp).

Except, perhaps, for one that's about to hit you? If it's about
to hit you, it's coming straight at you. 

>Most PD's will be firing at
>some angle on the FCS. That angle will mean any range errors will have a
>effect ie hitting in front of, behind of, above etc.
I really, really, really don't think you understand the difference
between the speed of light (300,000 km/s) and the speed of your missile
(1000 km/s.)
Getting the range right is very important at long ranges. It matters
much less at very short ranges, and much less when the target is
heading towards you rather than away. A good LIDAR should have range
(timing) errors around a microsecond, even at TL-7. That means that
even if your missile is travelling sideways at 1000 km/s, I'll get
the "lead" wrong by (1 microsecond) * (1000 km/s) = 1 meter, smaller
than a typical missile - and that's the *worst* case; if you're
heading even 10 degrees away from straight towards me the error is a
tenth of a meter.

Get this through your head: this is *not* like firing missiles or guns
at other missiles on a surface ship. Laser pulses travel hundreds of
times faster than missiles. It's like firing a M1's hypervelocity
gun at a person who is walking.

>into account any missile evasion/jinking, which will have a decreasing hit
>chance on the FCS.
That's where the "can't miss" range comes in; at around 10,000 km
(depending on the accel and size of the missile) evasion and jinking
is too slow compared to the travel time of the laser pulse - even if
the fire control ignores the jinking and assumes the missile travels
at a constant speed it'll hit, because in the 1/30th of a second
it takes the laser pulse to get there even a 30-G missile can only
change its predicted position by about 0.3 meters.

>But what about advanced cooling radiators option and Military Black paint?
Those numbers included advanced (TL-12) masking and military black
(TL-12) paint.

>But what if EW is in effect typically a *barrage* jammer in front the
>missile swarm, you would see the jammer but not the missile until the
>jammer was rendered inop or until *burn thru* was achieved allowing the
>sensor to have a chance of detecting the incoming missile(s).

Jamming passive sensors is something you and I have argued about 
before...certainly I don't believe in a barrage jammer that can jam
passive sensors or LIDAR, except for another laser bright enough to
blind the sensors, which has to be a *very* big laser to blind all
the dispersed sensor elements on a big warship. My general feeling is
that things like this only work if you have a TL advantage.

>I picture Bubba coming straight on its approach vector until submunitions
>deployment.
Make up your mind! You were talking above about the missile 'jinking
and evading' and about the 'range rate' and azimuthal motion of the
missile - now you want it to come straight in to keep the front armour
pointed at the target. You definitely can't have it both ways - and
if you're coming 'straight in' the fire control problem becomes
trivial. If you aren't coming straight in, sooner or later you 
have to expose the sides of the missile as it turns to maneuver.

Note also that you have to match the acceleration/evasion of the
target - you can't just coast in - so overall, I think keeping only
the front armour showing is impractical.

>So how big would the circle be for each of the sizes then?
>[eg] 1.0  Dt carrying  1,814,953 1cm ultradense ball bearings

You said you wanted 10% of the ball bearings to hit - the circle size
is then independent of the number of bearings. If you can settle for
0.1% (which you probably can, if you have a million of them) the
circle gets ten times bigger and the deployment time can be 
square root (10) times = 3 times earlier. Overall, deployment time
goes as the percentage you want to hit to the -1/4 power - it's very
hard to win back much deployment time. (IE if you wanted only *10*
ball bearings out of 1 million to hit, the deployment time goes 
up to about 20 seconds, or 7000 km for the 10-G big version.)

>Lets due it another way, I will build a SDB wing that will carry Bubba's
>and may be Little Bubba's. You get to build a 100,000 ton ship, arm as you
>see fit same for me. I would not fire Bubba's at non capital ships ie large
>targets. I start a mercury orbit you at Pluto, just no planets or gas
>giants just the Sun and thats it.

I think we definitely have to have a price threshold rather than 
tonnage. I was trying to simplify the problem - I'm not up to designing
100,000 dTon of ship in my copious spare time. How about MCr 10,000?
That'll buy you a couple of SDB's and a bunch of death missiles, and
me a decent destroyer/light cruiser.

And, just to be fair, let's start an AU apart around earth orbit - 
starting you at mercury gives you an advantage coming out of the sun.






Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:16:38 PST
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography

- ----Original Message Follows----
<<<"Happy Landings - Starports in Traveller" by Thomas M Price, in WD 
43. I liked that a lot and have used it on and off ever since, although 
I'm not sure all those 5 km runways are necessary.
Andy>>
 
So does anyone have a copy they can scan and send me?>>>

I have a copy of it, but not here in the office.  I'll bring it in and 
if I can scan it then I'll send it out....

Cheers,
Greg

The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:22:54 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Religious careers

Greg Smith <montecristo@hotmail.com> wrote:


><<----Original Message Follows----
>From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
>
>How about arangement or heirarchy or structure or TO (altho' I'm not
>sure what that stands for, perhaps one of our retired (or current)
>military members will tell us as in TO).>>
>
>TO is the acronym for Table of Organization, the "official" listing of
>what individuals make up the organization if it is manned a full
>strength.  Sometimes you might hear of TO&E which is the TO with the
>listing of organic Equipment for the organization.

Thanks for the info.  Would the second item you mentioned be a TOE sheet?
:-)

You know that's not as funny as it would have been if I hadn't left out the
word sheet after TO in the original post.  Oh, well...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:39:50 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography

Greg Smith <montecristo@hotmail.com>


>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
><<<"Happy Landings - Starports in Traveller" by Thomas M Price, in WD 
>43. I liked that a lot and have used it on and off ever since, although 
>I'm not sure all those 5 km runways are necessary.
>Andy>>
> 
>So does anyone have a copy they can scan and send me?>>>
>
>I have a copy of it, but not here in the office.  I'll bring it in and 
>if I can scan it then I'll send it out....

While your sending, I want one too.  Pleeeeeeeeease.

------------------------------

Date: 21 Jan 1998 13:47 EST
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography

>>"Happy Landings - Starports in Traveller" by Thomas M Price, in WD 43. I
>>liked that a lot and have used it on and off ever since, although I'm not
>>sure all those 5 km runways are necessary.
>
>So does anyone have a copy they can scan and send me?
>

Me too.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:57:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Larry Hadley <lhadley@peterboro.net>
Subject: Missiles and Reflection

On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Traveller-digest wrote:

> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 00:51:54 -0600
> From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
> Subject: *Underwear* Lasers and Missiles: was(Sam's death missiles)
> 
> >>I get 3,599 km/s final *velocity* *speed* *range rate*.
> >(That's one hour at 100 G's, right?)
> >For your 10-G and 30-G missiles the impact velocities are 360 km/s
> >and ~1000 km/s, each. (And one needs to launch the 30-G one 
> >about 100 million km out to give it that much of a run-up, too - 
> >though that does help to make it harder to detect.)
> 
> No that was 100 G's for half an hour, not whole hour.
> No I did not use the formula below I used a large spreadsheet I had
> forgotten the formula also.<G>
> 
> V = U + AT
> V = final velocity (m/s)
> U = initial velocity (m/s) = 0 m/s
> A = constant acceleration (m/s^2) = 0.4 x 9.81 = 3.924 m/s^2
> T = time (s) = 32 x 60 x 60 = 115,200 secs

   ???

  A = 100 x 9.98 = 998 m/s^2 (100g)
  T = 30 min = 1800 s

  V = 1800 x 998 = 1,796,400 m/s (1796.4 km/s)

> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:34:46 -0800
> From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
> Subject: re: mirror finishes on missiles
> 
> >(And that's ignoring the issue of whether you can keep a surface
> >99.9% even in hard vacuum - and it has to be that reflective all  the
> >way from the UV to near-IR.)
> 
> I guess this comes down to wether this is a likely advance at
> Traveller TL's.  I don't find it a problem.

   You're missing the point - we can build 99.9% reflective surfaces
_now_, it's _keeping_ them reflective that's the problem. Consider what
one speck of dust or a thumbprint does to your nicely reflective
surface...


- -- DLH                                 lhadley@peterboro.net

homepage: http://text.peterboro.net/~lhadley/index.html
bio: http://text.peterboro.net/~lhadley/Profile.html

  "Fight to fly, fly to fight, fight to win." - TOPGUN motto.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:15:21 -0500
From: hal@buffnet.net
Subject: Re: Missiles

>True. As noted before, the rule of thumb is that at 3 km/sec a mass has
>as much kinetic energy as an equal mass of TNT. Multuply by 2 to get
>the total energy if it *was* TNT. Or run it 1.4 times as fast (4.25
>km/sec) to get the same energy from a solid chunk or
>rock/iron/whatever. 
>
>Since it'd take a minor miracle to get a closing velocity that *low*,
>we can safely ignore chemical explosive warheads. Explosives may still
>be used to help disperse the "BBs" of a "BB warhead". But they won't
>add appreciably to the damage.

<grinning>
  Is there any reason then, that the warhead has to be a warhead?  Can't it
be something else like an ECM package?

           Hal

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 19:58 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Major and Minor Human Races and a warning to Kenji?

In-Reply-To: <v01530505b0eae12fb232@[209.43.128.239]>

Kenji,

> >> Must be a flashback.  Them and those pink Vargr.
> >
> >There was a Vargr in my campaign who went around in combat armour
> >painted bright pink...
>  
> SEEE???  So I'm _NOT_ crazy!!!  IT was REEALLLL!!!!

Oh, you're still crazy, you're just not halucinating.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:55:47 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: *Underwear* Lasers and Missiles: was(Sam's death missiles)

At 12:51 AM 1/21/98 -0600, Sam Thomas wrote:
>Lets due it another way, I will build a SDB wing that will carry Bubba's
>and may be Little Bubba's. You get to build a 100,000 ton ship, arm as you
>see fit same for me. I would not fire Bubba's at non capital ships ie large
>targets. I start a mercury orbit you at Pluto, just no planets or gas
>giants just the Sun and thats it.

Two points:

In general, the attackers outnumber the defenders, because they can
concentrate forces.  Sometimes, the defenders fool the attackers about how
many people are defending a given point, which makes it possible to fool
the attacker into a losing struggle.  As a rule, though, give the attacking
force more cash than the defenders for a decent wargame.  If it is a
superior system in the usual attacker advantage situation, then the
defender is ecstatic.  Of course, it would excel at smashing fixed defenses
that cannot evade.

Second question - why start at Pluto?  This gives the advantage to the
defender, as you then have days of detection and boost time.  Traveller
physics means that you are more likely to have to work within 100d limits.

Other than those caveats, I am quite looking forward to seeing the TCr
fleets you both put together.  I know Bruce designs better ships than I do,
and I would like to see what he comes up with to oppose these weapons systems.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 19:39:29 -0000
From: "Del Jones" <dojones@whitestar.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Major and Minor Human Races and a warning to Kenji?

Given the (apparently) common* act of dogs rolling themselves onto other dogs'
faeces, as a way of getting that 'nice fragrant' smell, does everyone think it
would 
be a good idea to say that vargr have 'evolved past' this pleasant ritual?
I know vargr can be a bit of a social embarrassment, but this would be just
too much!

*(my young cocker spaniel has done it on at least a couple of occasions,
and I can honestly say it makes bathtime interesting!)

>> And given how important scent likely is, I expect that they'd *really*
>> be into colognes and perfumes, perhaps with odors that humand find
>> offensive! 

>Given what our *unevolved* puppy companions find acceptable, even 
>interesting and sexy, in terms of odors (my Husky once found her way into 
>an old vat that was used to age cheese whey... BLEARRGGHH!) I'd say this 
>was quite possible (though it might be interesting to have them intrigued 
>by the same sort of scents we do... thus, when the players, on their 
>first run into Vargr space on one of the first trading missions, bring 
>plenty of Eau de PoissonMort, thinking to outsmart their GM, they can be 
>in for a real shock).

cheers,

Del

Derrick Jones
St Helens
Lancashire UK
dojones@whitestar.u-net.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #25
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Wednesday, January 21 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 026



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

The Church in space...
Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography
giant death missiles in fiction
Re: *Underwear* Lasers and Missiles: was(Sam's death missiles)
Question: Computers St vs Fb, what is this really?
Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy
Artificial gravity
Low Tech Colony Ship (long)
Re: Missiles and Reflection
Re: Low Tech Colony Ship (long)
Re: Thrusters
Re: *Underwear* Lasers and Missiles: was(Sam's death missiles)
*Underwear* Lasers was:Re: the missile debate continues
Re: Missiles and Reflection
Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:01:40 -0700
From: Sanders <timmon@primenet.com>
Subject: The Church in space...

Just a few thoughts on the 'Religious career' thread.

George R.R. Martin makes effective use of the Catholic Church in space in
his short story - "The Way of Cross and Dragon" ("Sandkings" (c)Baen Book
1986). It involves the 'Grand Inquisitor of the Order Militant of the
Knights of Jesus Christ' (whois also an alien, a Cardinal, and the
Archbishop of Vess - a planet) - he is addressed as 'Lord Commander' by
those within the Order (those below him in the Order are known as 'Knights
Inquisitors'). Also mentioned is the 'Order of St. Christopher the
Far-Travelling' a monastic Order of Monks, Brothers, and Nuns who crew a
fleet of starships for the use of the Church in its missions to all the
far-flung worlds of Martins 'Thousand Suns' universe. And lastly, the 'Order
of St. Judas Iscariot' around whom the story centers.
Like all of Martins SF, it is well worth reading.

Another author who makes (fairly) effective use of The Church in space is
John Maddox Roberts in his novel "Cestus Dei" and involves the task of 'a
combat-trained Jesuit missionary' (drawing on the Jesuit's being founded by
an ex-soldier as someone else mentioned) to bring a newly rediscovered 'lost
colony' world back into the fold (without resorting to nukes ;).

George R.R. Martin also makes effective use of faith's of his own devising 
in many of his short stories. Some of these are:

   "Sons of the Dreamer" - A faith that teaches 'physical pacifism and
psychological agression'.
   "Steel Angels"        - (a.k.a. "Children of Bakkalon") Faith is
                           militant and xenophobic towards nonhumans.
   "Erikaners"           - A faith that espouses immortality through 
                           cloning.
   "Liars"               - (actual name remains a secret) A secretive, 
                           Masonic like faith/organization.
   "Cult of the Union"   - An alien faith with human converts. Adherants 
                           seek physical 'Union' with alien parasitic 
                           growth, that eventually absorbs their body 
                           while the mind lives on. 


L8r,
Paul Sanders

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:03:52 -0800 ( PST)
From: jwbrewer@ucsd.edu (James W Brewer)
Subject: Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography

>>"Happy Landings - Starports in Traveller" by Thomas M Price, in WD 43. I
>>liked that a lot and have used it on and off ever since, although I'm not
>>sure all those 5 km runways are necessary.
>
>So does anyone have a copy they can scan and send me?
>

I Would be interested in a copy also.

                     James W. Brewer
                     Univ. of Calif. at San Diego

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:00:52 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: giant death missiles in fiction

For a fictional treatment of traveller-like space combat with missiles as
the dominant weapon, take a look at Peter Hamilton's "The Reality Disfunction".
The main weapon system are missiles called "combat wasps" - highly autominous,
with multiple warhead types (frag/nuke/det-laser) and their own lasers and
ECM. Other technology (sensors, jump drive, maneuver capabilities) are
fairly Traveller like. The books are very uneven overall - a strange plot
with possibly too much gratuitous sex and violence - but the space combat
parts are *great*. (They also have way cool bioengineered living starships 
that I keep thinking of writing up in Traveller terms...)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:18:34 EST
From: TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
Subject: Re: *Underwear* Lasers and Missiles: was(Sam's death missiles)

>> Hmm grav focused lasers was an option in FFS1, and either or choice in
>> FFS2, not In MT or CT.
>
>I think you missed his point. Laser weapons in CT and MT were
>effective at ranges that are only possible with something like grav
>focussing. It isn't explicit, but it makes sense given the
>long-ranged direct fire combat in CT and MT.

Well it is kinda explicit in MT... at least in the SoM (I've finally been able
to acquire a copy) ; )  It says that lower tech lasers used "powerful magnetic
fields" and that higher tech lasers "augment the more basic magnetic fields
with gravitic ones."  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:18:35 EST
From: TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
Subject: Question: Computers St vs Fb, what is this really?

    Of course, my answer to this is that noone has a clue what a computer will
be composed of, or be capable of, in a couple of thousand years.  One can only
suspend their disbelief so far, so I think its best to leave the exact
composition (and  capabilities) of Traveller computers an enigma.  Or
excluding that, to make some technobabble and "new," as yet undiscovered
"computer hardware element" and architecture.  To assume that they're
completely different from our computers today.
    Trying to stick to *canon,*I see advances from magnetic storage to
optical, then to holographic w/ synaptic processors (at least in the Starship
Operators Manual).  So i'd say synpatic, but then the whole St, Fb thing
doesn't make sense, does it?  What does EMP do to synapses?  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:45:32 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

Nahnci dehah Hinrath wrote:

[snip]

>8       And there were in that same office senior clerks abiding in the
>building, keeping watch over the paperwork by night.
>9       And lo, the paperwork of Telor came upon them, and the nonstandard
>nature of her numerical nomenclature shone round them; and they were
>sore afraid.
>10      And [when questioned by them] Telor said unto them, Be you not afraid
>for behold, I bring unto you good tidings of a more efficient way to
>accurately charecterize numerical data in one numerical field for easier
>machine processing while decreasing inacurate reading of one fields data
>into another fields entry box, which shall be of benefit to all people.

All right.  What goes around comes around.  I, too, have now been stared at
warily by co-workers for giggling into my computer.

This is good stuff!  Are you writing a piece for 101 Religions? (hint)


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:07:59 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Artificial gravity

FF&S2 says, "Artificial gravity inertial compensators create an artificial
gravity field directed between the deck plates of a ship to provide a
constant gravity field.  The generators are also tied into the ship's
computer, which varies the field strength to counteract the effects of a
ship's acceleration, up to a maximum level."

Does any one have any problems with this?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:18:31 -0600
From: "Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: Low Tech Colony Ship (long)

I've been playing around with designing a low-tech colony ship (around TL
9). Here are the parameters for my design - I don't claim that these are
good choices for starting up a colony, I've done little or no research on
the matter...

* 1000 Colonists
* 4000 tons of cargo
* Cold sleep ability
* Ability to support a limited number of colonists in a "warm" environment -
that is awake. This is for maintenance and emergency use. Note that the
mission time is sure to be long, so any life support with have to be
endurance class.
* Small craft

My working (that is, not finished) design is -

Gabriel, Archangel class colony ship (FF&S2)
Designed by Seraphim Industries, Inc

Statistics
  Tons: 50,000std (Asteroid)
  Volume: 700,000m3
  Mass (Loaded/Clean): 827,423t/543,423t
  Dimensions: 100.2m avg diameter
  Size: 10
  Crew: Special*
  Passengers High/Med: 0/20
  Passengers Low: 1000
  Troops/Science: 0/0
  Frozen Watch: 0
  Cargo: 4,000std
  Cost: 122,469.989MCr
  Maintenance Points: 17,243
  Tech Level: 9

Performance:
  0.4/0.6G Maneuver (/NuclearPulse, 78 G-Hours fuel)
  0 Power (/Fission:60MW, 2000year endurance)
  0/20/0/1000/0 Accommodations
  0 Life Support (/Type:EnB)
  10 [50] Armor, 57 Structure

Electronics:
  Controls: Computer, High Automation, 15xComp(CM:0.5 CP:2.0) Bridge.
  Communications: 1xRadio (1000AU, 0.20MW). 1xLaser (1,000AU, 0.00MW)
  Sensors: 1xPas Scanner (14 [50mkm], 2.0MW), 1xPas Tracker (13 [5mkm],
..01MW), 1xRadar (11 [.16mkm], 1.0MW)
  Signatures: Vis:0.0, IR: -0.5, Act: 0.5, Neu: -1, Grav: -2

Features:
  500xAirlock
  1xLaboratory (8std ea.)
  1xSickbay (8std ea.)
  2xEmbryo Bay (20std ea.)
  1xFull Galley (20cap)

Small Craft:
  4xDocking Ring (100std craft)

Backups:
  Communications: 6xRadio (1,000AU). 6xLaser (1,000AU).
  Sensors: 6xPas. Scanner (14 [50mkm]). 6xPas. Tracker (13 [5mkm]). 6xRadar
(11 [.16mkm]).
  Power: 60MW Fission.

Crew Details:
  Special. Zero crew, robot operated.

This ship carries 1000 adult colonists and  40std worth of frozen embryos
(human and animal). The ship is driven by a Nuclear Pulse drive that can
fire at full thrust for 195 hours. This burn would be split in half, to 97.5
hours - just over 4 days, to ensure that there was enough fuel at the end of
the trip to decelerate (perhaps less could be used, and some sort of
gravity-assisted deceleration could be implemented, allowing more fuel for
the acceleration burn). The ship is completely FF&S legal, except that I
handwave the crew away. I simply installed three computers for each section
(Drives, Commo, Sensors, Power, Life Support) and installed the workstations
(subcomputers) -and assume that the whole thing is automated, with some
robots.

Thanks to all the people who gave me the silly v=at formula that I forgot,
we can see that this ship reaches:

V = .4G x 9.81m/s^2 x 97.5hr x 3600s/hr = 1,377,324m/s, or roughly
1,377km/s.

Comparing to c (299,792,458m/s), we see that V/c = .0045, or roughly 0.45%
the speed of light.

Thus, it can travel 0.0045 ly a year, or 9ly in its operational (2000yr)
lifetime.

Not real good.

If we devote the entire burn to acceleration, we get

V = .4g x 9.81m/s^2 x 195hr x 3600s/hr = 2,754,648m/s or .009c.

This gives a range of 18ly. Still not impressive, plus - how are you going
to stop?

When I say these aren't impressive, I don't mean that literally - 9ly is
quite impressive. But in the Traveller universe, we've got ships that travel
much farther than that using STL - like the C-Jammer from Trillion Credit
Squadron.

The problem, of course, is mass. For this ship, the mass is tied up in three
things - drive, power plant fuel, hull. The drive is pretty much
untouchable - so we have to play with power plant fuel and hull mass. You
can lower the hull mass by changing from a asteroid hull to a ceramic hull -
but could a TL9 culture build a 50,000std craft? If so, this is an easy
route - changing to a constructed hull kicks the acceleration up to .6G, and
gives you 121.2G-hours of thrust - 202 hours of .6G thrust. Splitting it in
half (for deceleration) gives .007c - using the full fuel load results in
..014c, we crossed the 1% barrier (wheeeee!) The range of the ship would be
14ly and 28ly respectively.

For its volume, the largest mass is the fission fuel. It is nearly half the
weight of the ship, while only being 1.7% of the volume. Clearly some other
power system would be beneficial. But what? Fusion is too big at TL 9.

A power breakdown of the ship is as following:

33.01MW for the controls.
..2MW for communications.
3.01MW for sensors.
10.01MW for the labs and sickbay.
1.01MW for the berths and quarters.
and 12.13MW for life support.

The controls are untouchable - the computers and controls need to be active
always, so that the computers can react to any problems. The communications
and sensors could be intermittent - just turn them on now and then to check
for something. Then again, I wouldn't want to miss that big rock that's
about to hit the ship....
The lab and sickbay can definately be powered down when no one is awake.
The low berths need to be powered, of course.
The life support needs to be powered as well - since the ship must be able
to support people at any point along its 2000 year mission, endurance LS is
the only way to go. This design has a garden capable of supporting 20 people
at a time - this garden would be tended by robots and cultivated over the
years.

Note that this design is not perfect or finished - I want to add machine
shops (to take care of the robots) and do some more tweaking.

Any comments or ideas?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:48:54 -0600
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Re: Missiles and Reflection

At 01:57 PM 1/21/98 -0500, Larry Hadley wrote:
<<snip>> 
>> V = U + AT
>> V = final velocity (m/s)
>> U = initial velocity (m/s) = 0 m/s
>> A = constant acceleration (m/s^2) = 0.4 x 9.81 = 3.924 m/s^2
>> T = time (s) = 32 x 60 x 60 = 115,200 secs
>
>   ???

I pasted if from an ealier post on final velocity.

>  A = 100 x 9.98 = 998 m/s^2 (100g)
>  T = 30 min = 1800 s
>
>  V = 1800 x 998 = 1,796,400 m/s (1796.4 km/s)

Should it not be 998m/sec^2 equaling 996,004 m/s
then 996, 004 m/s times 1800 secs equales 1,792,807,200 or 1,792,807 Km/sec

>>snip<<
- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:44:16 PST
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Low Tech Colony Ship (long)

Andrew:

I like it.  

We have the ship in orbit.  It is getting ready to "launch".  In order 
to increase its legs, what if you were to add booster rockets or some 
other jetisonable propulsion system that would start the ship on its 
way?  Perhaps pusher type tugs could get some initial inertia going and 
so give you a better range....

Greg
The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com

- ----Original Message Follows----
From: "Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net>
To: "TML" <Traveller@mpgn.com>
Subject: Low Tech Colony Ship (long)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:18:31 -0600
Reply-To: traveller@mpgn.com


If we devote the entire burn to acceleration, we get
V = .4g x 9.81m/s^2 x 195hr x 3600s/hr = 2,754,648m/s or .009c.
This gives a range of 18ly. Still not impressive, plus - how are you 
going to stop?





______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:56:41 +0000
From: "Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" <trrkt@friko.onet.pl>
Subject: Re: Thrusters

Hmmm... 

Assuming that they have both contragravity and artificial gravity 
(and we know they do), couldn't Traveller ships use a variant of 
"exotic matter" drive? (That is, a pair of ag/cg units that serves as 
a "reactionless" drive). 

Of course, I don't know why the ships would need thruster plates in 
that case... And AFAIU that effect could be used to create an 
Alcubierre warp field, so I think that could result in ditching the 
jump drive (why lug it around when your main drive allows you to go 
FtL?)... Hmmm... Naaah. 

Disclaimer: I'm not a physicist, (Now isn't this obvious?) as I don't 
really want to study all the boring stuff just to know how to 
calculate stuff like the tensile strength of a beanstalk or energy 
radiated by a ship... <grin>


Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@friko.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike; 
Amber fan and Star Wars junkie; UIN 6947998; WTF TKD; FIAWOL; YMMV; IMAO; SNAFU
  Geek Code v3.1 GL/O d- s+: a19 C+++ W-(++) N+++ K? w(---) O@ M- PS+(+++) PE Y+ 
  PGP- !t--- 5+(-) X- R*+++>$ tv-- b++++ D+ G-- e h--*! !r-- !y()-*
    Life's not passing me by, it's running me over!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:58:39 -0600
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Re: *Underwear* Lasers and Missiles: was(Sam's death missiles)

At 11:55 AM 1/21/98 -0800, Scott Ellsworth wrote:
>At 12:51 AM 1/21/98 -0600, Sam Thomas wrote:
>>Lets due it another way, I will build a SDB wing that will carry Bubba's
>>and may be Little Bubba's. You get to build a 100,000 ton ship, arm as you
>>see fit same for me. I would not fire Bubba's at non capital ships ie large
>>targets. I start a mercury orbit you at Pluto, just no planets or gas
>>giants just the Sun and thats it.
>
>Two points:
>
>In general, the attackers outnumber the defenders, because they can
>concentrate forces.  Sometimes, the defenders fool the attackers about how
>many people are defending a given point, which makes it possible to fool
>the attacker into a losing struggle.  As a rule, though, give the attacking
>force more cash than the defenders for a decent wargame.  If it is a
>superior system in the usual attacker advantage situation, then the
>defender is ecstatic.  Of course, it would excel at smashing fixed defenses
>that cannot evade.

A superior force could be very large *commerce* raider type of raid. The a
single warship would be up against many SDB's.

>Second question - why start at Pluto?  This gives the advantage to the
>defender, as you then have days of detection and boost time.  Traveller
>physics means that you are more likely to have to work within 100d limits.

I was my first offer in terms of the setup locations, I would close the
ranges in negotiations.

Ok then I would concentrate at the locations that will allow a incoming
ships to jump in, In fully planeted etc solar system how many would there
be and where. Lets not count the Oort cloud in this for now.

>Other than those caveats, I am quite looking forward to seeing the TCr
>fleets you both put together.  I know Bruce designs better ships than I do,
>and I would like to see what he comes up with to oppose these weapons
systems.

- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:42:19 -0600
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: *Underwear* Lasers was:Re: the missile debate continues

At 10:12 AM 1/21/98 -0800, Bruce Alan Macintosh wrote:
>
>Sam of the "Jeune Ecole" wrote

Jeune Ecole???

>>snip<<
>Look, *every* kind of traveller has long-range lasers; you have to allow
>me to use them in defending against missiles or you're just not playing
>Traveller. It's just that it wasn't until TNE that they realized such
>lasers violated the laws of physics and had to introduce grav focus to
>explain them. And in FFS1, while it does call it an "option", it states
>explicitly that it's an option that's part of the mainstream Imperial
>Traveller universe.

But then why not a hand wave for the plasma guns? Alot of things in FFS1
were put there to make it a *neater* war game, like HEPLAR thrust. This is
direct quote from the "Gods of Traveller at the Time" at the last con in
Ft. Worth.

>>This has been discussed on the GDW Beta list. Very few missiles will
>>approach at such an angle to give your PD battery 0 degree angle on all
>>three axii(sp).
>
>Except, perhaps, for one that's about to hit you? If it's about
>to hit you, it's coming straight at you. 

Ok a *crude* example then

M
v\
v \
v  \
v   \
v    \
v     \
v      \
v       \
v        \
v         \
- -----------X-------------

M is missile, X is defending PD laser battery, V is missile direction of
travel, \ is the laser beam's path, -- is hull of defending ship. 

As you can see the missile is going to intercept the ships hull at the
forward part, the PD battery will be firing at an angle to hit the missile
along its path of travel. Yes the angle will not be this clean unless the
defending ship is very large.

The missile is coming straight at the ship not the PD battery unless the
ship is *point* in space

>>Most PD's will be firing at
>>some angle on the FCS. That angle will mean any range errors will have a
>>effect ie hitting in front of, behind of, above etc.
>I really, really, really don't think you understand the difference
>between the speed of light (300,000 km/s) and the speed of your missile
>(1000 km/s.)

That is the speed only when the missile starts accelling after accelerating
for a period of time will it be going faster than its accel rate of 1,000
km/s?

>Getting the range right is very important at long ranges. It matters
>much less at very short ranges, and much less when the target is
>heading towards you rather than away. A good LIDAR should have range
>(timing) errors around a microsecond, even at TL-7. That means that
>even if your missile is travelling sideways at 1000 km/s, I'll get
>the "lead" wrong by (1 microsecond) * (1000 km/s) = 1 meter, smaller
>than a typical missile - and that's the *worst* case; if you're
>heading even 10 degrees away from straight towards me the error is a
>tenth of a meter.

At what range is the above example? The laser will be firing a wide pattern
at longer ranges but it will still be firing a very tight pattern even at
short ranges.

>Get this through your head: this is *not* like firing missiles or guns
>at other missiles on a surface ship. Laser pulses travel hundreds of
>times faster than missiles. It's like firing a M1's hypervelocity
>gun at a person who is walking.

Ok get this thru you head: this is *not* astronomy 101 either.<G> I would
have thought that light travels thousands of times faster than light.<G>

At the range you list above the missile will have deployed its submunitons
and there will be 100,000's of them, at such short range above, your PD ROF
will be to small to get them all.

>>into account any missile evasion/jinking, which will have a decreasing hit
>>chance on the FCS.
>That's where the "can't miss" range comes in; at around 10,000 km
>(depending on the accel and size of the missile) evasion and jinking
>is too slow compared to the travel time of the laser pulse - even if
>the fire control ignores the jinking and assumes the missile travels
>at a constant speed it'll hit, because in the 1/30th of a second
>it takes the laser pulse to get there even a 30-G missile can only
>change its predicted position by about 0.3 meters.

Yes but then can the PD pen/dam the missile in question? If the missile is
leaving after submunitons deployment, target is DOA anyway.

>>But what about advanced cooling radiators option and Military Black paint?
>Those numbers included advanced (TL-12) masking and military black
>(TL-12) paint.
>
>>But what if EW is in effect typically a *barrage* jammer in front the
>>missile swarm, you would see the jammer but not the missile until the
>>jammer was rendered inop or until *burn thru* was achieved allowing the
>>sensor to have a chance of detecting the incoming missile(s).
>
>Jamming passive sensors is something you and I have argued about 
>before...certainly I don't believe in a barrage jammer that can jam
>passive sensors or LIDAR, except for another laser bright enough to
>blind the sensors, which has to be a *very* big laser to blind all
>the dispersed sensor elements on a big warship. My general feeling is
>that things like this only work if you have a TL advantage.

Whether or not you believe being possible or not, it will be there. The
Military will spend Billions Cr over 5,000 years to find a way to do it.
Why? because it will give the side that has it a strong edge in battles.
The solution my side step what we consider *rules* of physics at al like
the jump drive making it possible for travel greater than the speed of
light. They did not violote the rules, they changed the rules. 

I have seen EW do things that those in the civilian world would say is
impossible and give good arguments as to why it is impossible. Yes a higher
TL you have a reducing effect on the jammer.

>>I picture Bubba coming straight on its approach vector until submunitions
>>deployment.
>Make up your mind! You were talking above about the missile 'jinking
>and evading' and about the 'range rate' and azimuthal motion of the
>missile - now you want it to come straight in to keep the front armour
>pointed at the target. You definitely can't have it both ways - and
>if you're coming 'straight in' the fire control problem becomes
>trivial. If you aren't coming straight in, sooner or later you 
>have to expose the sides of the missile as it turns to maneuver.

Bubba does not evade but Little Bubba does.

Again straight in to target's hull, not the PD battery. I has been mentions
in other message that corkscrew approach is a good possibility to get it
both ways.

Ok another crude example:

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<M<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
                   /
                  /
                 /
                /
               /
              /
             /
            /
           /
- ----------/---------------

<<< is missile direction of travel, / is submunitions path of travel, ---
is targets hull.  
This is meant to be a *very crude* example, the release angle will be more
acute for a longer range deployment.

>Note also that you have to match the acceleration/evasion of the
>target - you can't just coast in - so overall, I think keeping only
>the front armour showing is impractical.

Match the targets movements? I am trying to intercept not board it.<G> 
The side armor will get exposed so what it will be proof against PD lasers
fire.

>>So how big would the circle be for each of the sizes then?
>>[eg] 1.0  Dt carrying  1,814,953 1cm ultradense ball bearings
>
>You said you wanted 10% of the ball bearings to hit - the circle size
>is then independent of the number of bearings. If you can settle for
>0.1% (which you probably can, if you have a million of them) the
>circle gets ten times bigger and the deployment time can be 
>square root (10) times = 3 times earlier. Overall, deployment time
>goes as the percentage you want to hit to the -1/4 power - it's very
>hard to win back much deployment time. (IE if you wanted only *10*
>ball bearings out of 1 million to hit, the deployment time goes 
>up to about 20 seconds, or 7000 km for the 10-G big version.)

Where did you arrive at the above figures? They seem way off.

With 1,000,000 plus BB's I can release them in such a way to put one in
every square meter
disk at a very long range.

Now how big will that disk be? bigger than you example.

>>Lets due it another way, I will build a SDB wing that will carry Bubba's
>>and may be Little Bubba's. You get to build a 100,000 ton ship, arm as you
>>see fit same for me. I would not fire Bubba's at non capital ships ie large
>>targets. I start a mercury orbit you at Pluto, just no planets or gas
>>giants just the Sun and thats it.
>
>I think we definitely have to have a price threshold rather than 
>tonnage. I was trying to simplify the problem - I'm not up to designing
>100,000 dTon of ship in my copious spare time. How about MCr 10,000?
>That'll buy you a couple of SDB's and a bunch of death missiles, and
>me a decent destroyer/light cruiser.

Not in my view either, a price ceiling does not interest me. Then we will
leave it to thsoe with more time.

>And, just to be fair, let's start an AU apart around earth orbit - 
>starting you at mercury gives you an advantage coming out of the sun.

Ok then I will be off at the three or nine o'clock positions in mercury's
orbit, twelve position would have the sun directly behind it, six o'clock
would be behind the sun.

- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:48:07 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Missiles and Reflection

 
> Should it not be 998m/sec^2 equaling 996,004 m/s
> then 996, 004 m/s times 1800 secs equales 1,792,807,200 or 1,792,807 Km/sec
 
It is 998 Meters _per_ second _per_ second. _Not_ 998 _squared_
meters per second.

You apparently keep doing 998^2, then tagging on the units (units
being meters and seconds).

The meters and seconds go _with_ the number, they don't operate on
it.

So when you have something like x=at^2, the Time, "t" is squared. So
you might have (2seconds)^2 = 2^2seconds^2 = 4seconds^2

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:59:10 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography

James W Brewer <jwbrewer@ucsd.edu> wrote:


>>>"Happy Landings - Starports in Traveller" by Thomas M Price, in WD 43. I
>>>liked that a lot and have used it on and off ever since, although I'm not
>>>sure all those 5 km runways are necessary.
>>
>>So does anyone have a copy they can scan and send me?
>>
>
>I Would be interested in a copy also.
>
>                     James W. Brewer
>                     Univ. of Calif. at San Diego


That's at least 4, why don't you just post it.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #26
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Wednesday, January 21 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 027



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography
Re: giant death missiles in fiction
Re: *Underwear* Lasers was:Re: the missile debate continues
New signature line 2
Re: giant death missiles in fiction
Re: Rampart, AHL
Spurious worlds from sunbane data
Re: What is an MFD
Mostly KKMs
Re: Missiles
TravIRC
Re: Low Tech Colony Ship (long)
the missile debate (interminable but moving to TTL)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:55:30 +0000
From: "Ashley.greenall" <ashley.greenall@virgin.net>
Subject: Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography

"Happy Landings - Starports in Traveller" by Thomas M Price, in WD 43. I
>>liked that a lot and have used it on and off ever since, although I'm not
>>sure all those 5 km runways are necessary.
>
>So does anyone have a copy they can scan and send me?
>

Me Too! Please

Ash.

- -The hardness of the butter is proportional to the softness of the bread.-

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:01:35 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: giant death missiles in fiction

Bruce Alan Macintosh <bmac@astro.ucla.edu> wrote:

>
>For a fictional treatment of traveller-like space combat with missiles as
>the dominant weapon, take a look at Peter Hamilton's "The Reality
Disfunction".
>The main weapon system are missiles called "combat wasps" - highly
autominous,
>with multiple warhead types (frag/nuke/det-laser) and their own lasers and
>ECM. Other technology (sensors, jump drive, maneuver capabilities) are
>fairly Traveller like. The books are very uneven overall - a strange plot
>with possibly too much gratuitous sex and violence - but the space combat
>parts are *great*. (They also have way cool bioengineered living starships
>that I keep thinking of writing up in Traveller terms...)

That should be interesting since Traveller has no such terms.  I for one am
looking forward to the conversion.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:08:43 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: *Underwear* Lasers was:Re: the missile debate continues

 
> But then why not a hand wave for the plasma guns? Alot of things in FFS1
> were put there to make it a *neater* war game, like HEPLAR thrust. This is
> direct quote from the "Gods of Traveller at the Time" at the last con in
> Ft. Worth.

It can't be done for plasma guns, that's why. Save what you can,
ditch the rest.

It was doable withing traveller tech to make grav focussing for
lasers, not plasma.

> Ok a *crude* example then
> 
> M
> v\
> v \
> v  \
> v   \
> v    \
> v     \
> v      \
> v       \
> v        \
> v         \
> -----------X-------------
> 
> M is missile, X is defending PD laser battery, V is missile direction of
> travel, \ is the laser beam's path, -- is hull of defending ship. 
 
The distance between the hull nad the missile is suh that the angle
will be a fraction of a degree. Do the math. It won't look as you
suggest until it extremely close.

But the above is besides the point. From the perspective of the
*laser* it is a straight line. At all times. At anti-missile ranges
the travel time for tthe laser is tiny compared to the movement of
the missile, so it ia always a straight line at 0 angle from the
laser.

> The missile is coming straight at the ship not the PD battery unless the
> ship is *point* in space
 
At the distances we're talking about, it is effectively a point.

> Whether or not you believe being possible or not, it will be there. The
> Military will spend Billions Cr over 5,000 years to find a way to do it.
> Why? because it will give the side that has it a strong edge in battles.
> The solution my side step what we consider *rules* of physics at al like
> the jump drive making it possible for travel greater than the speed of
> light. They did not violote the rules, they changed the rules. 

But the rules for EM won't change. Jump adds a new *type* of
problem, it doesn't change old ones.
 
> Again straight in to target's hull, not the PD battery. I has been mentions
> in other message that corkscrew approach is a good possibility to get it
> both ways.

Not possible at high CVs.

> Ok another crude example:
> 
> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<M<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>                    /
>                   /
>                  /
>                 /
>                /
>               /
>              /
>             /
>            /
> ----------/---------------
> 
> <<< is missile direction of travel, / is submunitions path of travel, ---
> is targets hull.  
> This is meant to be a *very crude* example, the release angle will be more
> acute for a longer range deployment.

The submunition will need to have a *huge* delta v to do this. Even
huge compared to Bubba. Really. 

> Match the targets movements? I am trying to intercept not board it.<G> 
> The side armor will get exposed so what it will be proof against PD lasers
> fire.
 
You have to be at the same place at the same time. It is a kind of
matching. Intercept is a better word, but he's trying to get a point
across and can't be sure you use the words the same way.

> Where did you arrive at the above figures? They seem way off.
 
Sir Isaac Newton.

> Not in my view either, a price ceiling does not interest me. Then we will
> leave it to thsoe with more time.
 
Price is all that matters. If it is cheaper in the long run to
defend, they won't get use---much. I think big missiles will exist
since it forces the other guy to defend even if you don't use many.

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:22:58 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: New signature line 2

I think this signature line may be a corrilary to Murphy's Law

- -The hardness of the butter is proportional to the softness of the bread.-

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:41:39 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: giant death missiles in fiction

Richard A. Flores wrote:

> Bruce Alan Macintosh <bmac@astro.ucla.edu> wrote:
>
> >
> >For a fictional treatment of traveller-like space combat with missiles as
> >the dominant weapon, take a look at Peter Hamilton's "The Reality
> Disfunction".
> >The main weapon system are missiles called "combat wasps" - highly
> autominous,
> >with multiple warhead types (frag/nuke/det-laser) and their own lasers and
> >ECM. Other technology (sensors, jump drive, maneuver capabilities) are
> >fairly Traveller like. The books are very uneven overall - a strange plot
> >with possibly too much gratuitous sex and violence - but the space combat
> >parts are *great*. (They also have way cool bioengineered living starships
> >that I keep thinking of writing up in Traveller terms...)
>
> That should be interesting since Traveller has no such terms.  I for one am
> looking forward to the conversion.

 The 'STEN' series by Alan Cole and Chris Bunch also have some pretty good
'ship-killer' class missiles and decent write-ups of the space battles using
'em.


- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:48:36 -0500
From: John H Bogan Jr <jbogan@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: Rampart, AHL

At 01:53 PM 1/20/1998 -0800, you wrote:
>Hi,
>
>Is there anyone out there who owns the Azhanti High Lightning 
>supplement?
>If so, would you mind sending me the HG statistics for the ships in 
>that upplement?  I don't need all the different bay configurations 
>for the AHL, just the basic ship will do.  I'm primarily 
>interested in the Rampart fighter and other subordinate craft (gunship,
et. al.).
>


The Rampart RF-128:  FF-0106611-000000-40000-0
2 seater RF-128-2:   FL-0106611-000000-00003-0
Gunboat:             NG-0204411-000000-05000-0
Fuel Shuttle:        TY-4202211-000000-00000-0

AHL Frontier Cruiser version:
          CF-P4525F3-596920-995N7-6
      The ship has 10 sandcasters, of which 8 bear.
      The ship has 10 laser batteries, of which 8 bear.
            4 energy batteries, 3 bearing,
           24 particle batteries, 19 bearing;
           12 missle batteries, 9 bearing.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 01:09:39 -0000
From: "Del Jones" <dojones@whitestar.u-net.com>
Subject: Spurious worlds from sunbane data

Posted to TML and Galactic ML

Hi all,

In my Traveller Access database, I have noticed the following
peculiarities...
The sizes come up as 'unknown' in Galactic, and the blank UPP worlds show 
worlds present but no physical data for them. Not surprising if data was
downloaded
from the Sunbane ftp sites like mine was.
Any one shed any light on the situation?

Code			UPP		size	
Daibei 2114		DSA2003-9	S	?
Old Exp 2537		BBC0923-C	B	?
Old Exp 2640		ACA0AC9-E	C	?what do these mean
Old Exp 2933		CBC4735-9	B	?
Old Exp 2935		BCC4899-B	C	?
Reavers D 0320		CB48ADD-7	B	?

Delphi 1521		B			?
Gushm 0237		C			?anyone know UPP's for these
Hlakhoi1622		B			?


Thanks in advance

Derrick Jones
St Helens
Lancashire UK
dojones@whitestar.u-net.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:27:31 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: What is an MFD

Anything that garners a bonus to hit would be a good thing, eh?

> 
> I don't see why a fighter would need a MFD, though.
> --
> 
> +~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
> | Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
> |      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
> |------------------------------------------|
> | "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
> | do it for the love of it, then you do it |
> | for a few friends, and finally you do it |
> | for the money."               -- Moliere |
> +~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
> 
> 
>   
> 
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com           http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

Thought for the day:
    The only thing that hurts more than paying income tax
    is not having to pay income tax.

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 19:59:00
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Mostly KKMs

At 12:31 PM 20/01/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
>Subject: Re: KKMs and a couple of short FS memos
>
>At 06:32 PM 1/20/98, Ian or Katts wrote:
>>snip<
>>>Bruce,
>>>Some nits to pick 
>>>
>>>1. Bubba carries not only KKM BB's but nukes also. 
>>>2. The typical PD will not smudge Bubba's paint job, let alone damage
>Bubba. 
>>
>>If people start uparmouring missiles, then PD weapons will get heavier.
>>It's an evolutionary thing. Uparmoured missiles are also either slower or
>>bigger and more expensive, and thus more vulnerable to missiles in a
>>counter-missile role.
>
>Yes but after a bit of up powering PD weapons to pen the armored missile,
>they become more of a major weapons system in power and cost. 

Nahh. Lasers are small and cheap. It's the power plant that costs the
megacredits. And if you spread the power out over time by using batteries,
you can evade that problem to a great extent.

>>>4. Bubba's evasion was very high but not as high as Little Bubba.
>>
>>I cant remember. How many gees could it pull ?
>
>If I remember right Bubba pulled 12 G's and Little Bubba pulled 30G's
>
>>>5. Bubba also can release the submunitons at outside the PD lasers eff
>range.
>>
>>A TL12 laser with a 1m focal array has an effective range of 25 000 km. 2m
>>focal array takes this up to 100 000 km. 
>
>Is this using the optional *grav* focussed array?

Grav focussing doesnt appear optional any more. It appears standard.

Non grav focussed lasers are IMO pretty useless until TL13.

<stuff deleted>

>>Point defense is a job for a combination of nuclear dampers, sand, missiles
>>and PD lasers. There may even be a role for a point defense Meson Gun ...
>>and I'm not too proud to use a spinal mount against a missile that is a big
>>enough threat.
>
>If you mix are det nukes in with the *crowd* of KKM stuff which ones does
>the nuc damp focus on?

The ones who havent yet blossomed, and are in range. Nuke dampers can be
built fairly easily with a 50 kkm range.

>
>Hmm PD meson and PD particle accel weapons.....

PD meson gun to deal with very very very thickly armoured missiles. But
using KKMs against them is probably more effective.

>
>Slewing that spinal mount around to bear each and every incoming KKM
>missile...ouch.

Using the spinal mount is an emergency measure - but it is there as part of
the missile defense package.

>
>>I also believe that point defense lasers should be 250 MJ. Anti-ship lasers
>>should be maxed out ie TL*50 MJ. Overcome your peak power output limit by a
>>nice big battery.
>
>I though the TL*50 involved the ability of the focal array to handle the
>power load not the power generation? At least I think that was the hand wave?

Yeah ... the problem is generating your "peak power need" for a ship with
lots of point defense lasers. Batteries are the efficient solution IMO, at
least as opposed to buying a bigger power plant you dont use most of the
time. 

A TL11 250 MJ 1 m2 area focal array laser with ROF 800 per 30 mins is very
roughly 20 m3 of laser, 72 m3 of accumulator. Power demand is high, at
(800x1250 MJ) or 1000000 MJ per 1800 seconds, or roughly 550 megawatts per
second over the 30 minutes.

That needs call it 350 m3 of TL12 1 hour discarge batteries.

Total is 450 m3 or so - about, what 35 displacement tons. Mass is on the
high side, at ummm 900 tons or so. Cost is pretty damn reasonable - call it
MCr 2 for the batteries, MCr 0.75 for the accumulator, call it MCr 0.5 for
the laser with markup, MCr 0.2 for a 30 kkm beam pointer - cost is still
dominated by a MFD.

>
>>>>-the range at which a laser can't miss a missile-sized target is about
>>>>5000 km for a 100-G missile; it scales weakly with size and acceleration,
>>>>so it's about 20000 km for a big 10-G missile. A 150 mJ ROF-100 
>>>>laser will get quite a few shots in...
>>>
>>>snip<<
>>
>>With a TL12 computer, fairly well I think.
>
>It is not just the computer the PD has to acquire, track, FCS, and engage,
>then repeat also having to bring the PD' laser array into firing position,
>and the ship bring the PD to bear on targets outside the firing arc of the
PD.

We are talking about engaging KKMs at a minimum range of 1000km. The
problem is pointing accurately enough - it isnt a problem of swinging the
array through a wide arc, as is needed when engaging multiple missiles at
inside a kilometer range.

>
>>>If the incoming missile is traveling at 100 G's for half an hour, its
>>>*range rate* will be such that at the PD extreme range will have
>>>microfractions of a second before the missile is out of the FCS envelope.
>>>Multiplying this by several missiles, your PD will not have time to react,
>>>track, and FCS all of the incoming missiles before they are on target.
>>
>>30 minutes at acceleration of 100 Gees is 1 km/s * 60 * 30 = 1800 km/s.
>>Fast, but the missile will be in "the zone" for long enough, I think.
>
>Almost correct, recalc the missiles final built up *velocity* *speed* after
>accel for 30 minutes at 100 G's. It will be a lot faster than you have above.

I'm sorry ? I dont follow your maths. 100 gees is 1000 meters per second
accleration, or 1 km per second. 30 minutes is 1800 seconds to accelerate
in, so the missile's final velocity is 1800 kilometers per second. If it
slows down the acceleration, it will achieve more distance, but it will
still end up with the same velocity.

I'm just concerned with the warhead(s) velocity while it is inside the
point defense's zone of operation, as that will define how long the defense
has to deal with many inbound rounds.

>
>I get 3,599 km/s final *velocity* *speed* *range rate*. If it quits accel
>and then travels for another minute the distance it would travel is
>215,940km, well outside the minimum detection range.
>
>>>Your example seems to indicate a *best* case for the PD, ie you know it is
>>>coming and is just waiting for it to get into firing range.
>>
>>Military sensors at TL12 are good enough to show most anything up at quite
>>long range. Even 1cm^3 ball bearings.
>
>But what if the Ball Bearing are Mil Blacked?
>

Mil blacking costs 1 megacredit per square meter. This will add up fast
when you are dealing with hundreds/thousands/whatever of ball bearings.

You also still have detection ranges out to long enough, assuming decent
sensitivity LIDARs.

>>Personally, I dont think that it is worthwhile to try and hide in deep
>>space through masking and stuff, so I'd just have the LIDAR or AEMS turned
>>on all the time on a warship.
>
>Never give your enemy and easy time tracking you by being active all the
>time. I can just keep shooting at you with ARM type missiles and never give
>my location to you active ship.

But if the inbound missiles dont hit, then it's kind of pointless.

The second problem with this strategy is the length of sensor range given
TL10+  Traveller technology compared to weapons range. The analogy is far
more Age of Sail, where visibility is far greater than effective range than
1940s onward naval warfare, where if you can detect it, you can kill it
with air or missile strikes.

<stuff deleted>

>
>The shape of the object will have an effect on its RCS or now the
>SCS(sensor cross section)
>If 100 dt box type object is traveling at you it will have a SCS of 10, a
>100 dt needle coming at you, point at you, will have a SCS or less than the
>box yes?

This opens up way too much of a can of worms IMO. The problem is when the
needle maneuvers, you have to reconfigure the sensor profile from each
point of observation.

One of the lo-tech SDB Thuddd's had a "sensor missile" - a missile with a
LIDAR, designed to provide sensor scans for the main ship. Assuming it's
sensor payload is equivalent in mass to most missile's warhead, it should
be able to flee as fast as they can chase it, and provide sensor readings
from a different point of observation to the parent ship until destroyed.

This makes things get real complex real fast.

>
>>And if we do that, we have the "nose towards enemy and armoured to 30m
>>thickness" problem.
>
>Bubba does not have 30m of armor, it is in the cm range and sloped.

By my reading of FFS2, sloping armour on spaceships is now a non-operative
concept.

>Bubba does not use superdense armor it uses electromorhopic synthetics(sp).
>Getting the G's is not the problem, it is power required.

Try The Abomination Known As Fusion Plus. All the power you want, privded
you have the surface area.

>
>>snip<
>>Sam, could you please repost the Bubba and Little Bubba ?
>
>Yes I will but I will have to design them again using my spreadsheet, I
>have upgraded my computer, hard clean up and reformat you know. ;-(

Fair enough. I *like* kinetic kill missiles. I think they are an excellent
solution to the Imperial Rules of War banning civilians owning det nukes. I
just dont think they will be a solution to the problem that military ships
(fleets even more so) easily deal with huge missile swarms. Shooting up
other civilians, yes. Shooting up ethically challenged civilians,
certainly. Shooting up warships, no.

>- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
>(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
>Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
>Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
>- -----------------------------------------------------

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:02:48 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Missiles

Ok.. So I am floating in my pool.. With a long long string attached 
to a cork. I pull the cork.

Do I float or follow the water? I caused the 'well' to form.

Also, if I do sit in a metallic object, and throw a magnet ahead of 
it, why will it not move? The energy cost is high (as TP's should 
be... and are) but after the magnet hits the ground, I move, as does 
everything else metal in the area.

I am sorry, but I still cannot see how it would not work.

> In mail you write:
> 
> >> In mail you write:
> > Why would it be like pulling up yourself? You are generating a third 
> > force, that is unconnected to the generating vessel, using x amount 
> > of power. You then use y amount of power to use that force to move 
> > your self. Alternitivaly, you could use the gravity well to fall 
> > into. If you cause a curvature of spacetime, that curvature should 
> > have every effect of every other cuverature in existance. I do not 
> > see where an artificaly generated one would not work like every 
> > other one in existance. After all, we are _not_ speaking of using 
> > the ships own well to push off of (but that should also work.. I 
> > doubt that the natural well would give enough of a push to really do 
> > anything, tho..)
> 
> The problem is that you are generating the "well" *from* the ship.
> Therefore, it is *attached* to it, and what you are tring is no
> different than the old idea of throwing a big magnet ahead of your ship
> to pull it along.
> 
> > If by generating that force, you invalidate it for your own use, 
> > well... I have _never_ seen any thing that would validate that 
> > arugment.. But then again.. Inertial Dampers are pretty way out there 
> > :)
> 
> Again, unless the generator is *independent* of the vessel, it'll work
> just like the magnet idea above. 
> 
> -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
> 
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com           http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

Thought for the day:
    A penny saved is ridiculous.

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 19:42:42 +0000
From: "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
Subject: TravIRC

Greetings!

There was a call recently on the list for NPC's and I saw a thank you 
for the response he got. Either the responses were all private posts, 
or I slept through them all and I'm jealous ;> So, this week's topic 
will be a Potpourri of NPC's. Bring one to share. Bring thoughts on 
how to come up with unique NPC's to challenge your players with or 
stories of the best one's you've encountered in games.

We'll be on Undernet, #traveller, as usual, at 8:30 Central. 

Servers of choice are Springfield.MO.us.undernet.org and 
StLouis.MO.us.undernet.org.

Next week is sure to be a winner:

How To Think and Act Like an Alien... presented by TML's own Kenji 
Schwarz.

Suz

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 23:25:08 EST
From: XatoKuom <XatoKuom@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Low Tech Colony Ship (long)

In a message dated 98-01-21 16:32:02 EST, you write:

<< You can lower the hull mass by changing from a asteroid hull to a ceramic
hull -
 but could a TL9 culture build a 50,000std craft? >>

Sure, if a Tl5/6 culture can build the Yamato(approx. 300m of Molybdenum/Steel
armor) with only 38 years of modern shipwright experience.  A "dedicated" TL-9
culture should be able to construct a 50,000dT craft. The cost would of course
be prohibitive, but what's one hundred or so billion dollars compared to the
trillions spent on the Cold War?

Scott

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:33:57 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: the missile debate (interminable but moving to TTL)

With Leroy's permission, we should continue this on TTL, so as not to bore
the kind readers of TML.

(This last one goes to both lists - Leroy, please send your post to TTL only,
I think.)

>>Sam of the "Jeune Ecole" wrote
>Jeune Ecole???
Early-20th-century school of naval thought (mostly in France) that
thought the torpedo had become the dominant weapon in naval combat
and that battleships were obsolete. Somehow your doctrine reminds me
of them :-). (History hasn't really decided if they were right, wrong,
or just premature.)

>>Look, *every* kind of traveller has long-range lasers
>But then why not a hand wave for the plasma guns? Alot of things in FFS1
>were put there to make it a *neater* war game, like HEPLAR thrust. This is
>direct quote from the "Gods of Traveller at the Time" at the last con in
>Ft. Worth.

You sure you're not related to Leroy? Quoting conversations from a con...
Anyway, we're not talking about plasma guns; we're talking about missiles
vs lasers, and I maintain that in a Traveller context that requires long-range
lasers.

>The missile is coming straight at the ship not the PD battery unless the
>ship is *point* in space

Relative to the distances involved, the ship is a point. If the missile
is coming at the end of the ship - even an AHL - the PD battery is at
most 100-odd meters from the missile's impact point. If the missile
is 10,000km away, that's an angular offset of about two
arcsecond - a 1,800th of a degree. The perpendicular velocity of a 
1,000 km/s missile as seen by the PD battery is about 100 meters
per second. Since the laser pulse takes 1/30 of a second to get there
I can get the range wrong by up to 30% and still hit the missile.

>At the range you list above [10,000 km] the missile will have deployed its submunitons
>and there will be 100,000's of them, at such short range above, your PD ROF
>will be to small to get them all.
It depends on how many hits you want and how fast the target evades,
but it's hard to get the deployment range out past 10,000km for 
reasonable parameters.

>I have seen EW do things that those in the civilian world would say is
>impossible and give good arguments as to why it is impossible. Yes a higher
>TL you have a reducing effect on the jammer.

All right - how about this: if EW exists, why is it reasonable to 
assume that the (small) jammer on the missile can successfully jam
the (huge) sensor on the warship, why can't the warship mount a (big)
jammer that can successfully jam the (small) sensor on the missile?
For reasonable EW, it cuts both ways...

>The side armor will get exposed so what it will be proof against PD lasers
>fire.

Without you posting the design I can't evaluate that, but remember that
the Bubba brothers are expensive enough that the warship designer
can dedicate a Really Big defence laser to shooting them down and still
come out ahead.


>Where did you arrive at the above figures? They seem way off.
>With 1,000,000 plus BB's I can release them in such a way to put one in
>every square meter disk at a very long range.
>Now how big will that disk be? bigger than you example.
If you have one in every square meter of a disk the disk will be 
about 1100 m - 1.1 kilometers - in diameter. If the target evades
at 4 Gs, it takes it slightly more than five seconds to move itself 
outside that circle (0.5 * 4 G * 10 m/s2 * (5s)^2)=500 m
so you have to deploy the submunitions five 
seconds or less before impact, otherwise the target can get out of
the way. At 1000 km/s approach velocity that means you deploy at 
5000 km, inside the "can't miss" laser range. To push it out to 
30000 km - 30 seconds before impact - the error circle gets to
be 0.5*4*10*(30^2)=18,000 m in radius, an area of about a billion
square kilometers, or one BB per 1000 square meters - which is a
pretty wimpy density.

>Not in my view either, a price ceiling does not interest me. Then we will
>leave it to thsoe with more time.
How can you possibly evaluate the effectiveness of a MCr 100s per shot
weapons system without imposing a price limit? I'll grant that 
these things can overwhelm a target in sufficient quantity - my main
point is that they're not very cost effective in doing so, given
how effective Traveller lasers are. There's probably an interesting
middle ground, of course - I think skipping the armour and going for
cheap and mass-produced missiles is more promising - but your giant
death missiles, like many other superweapons, aren't quite the ultimate
weapon.

Bruce

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #27
*********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Thursday, January 22 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 028



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Swashbuckling on Saurus
Big Book of Hulls
Traveller Demo
Re: Question: Computers St vs Fb, what is this really?
Re: TravIRC
Re: the missile debate continues
re: Low Tech Colony Ship (shortened)
re: *Underwear* Lasers was:Re: the missile debate continues
Re: Major and Minor Human Races
Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy
Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: Spurious worlds from sunbane data
Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography
Re: Dumarest and Traveller
Re: What is an MFD
Re: Missiles
Re: Traveller Demo
Re:Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: Missiles

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 23:23:36 -0800
From: crystal <crystal@postme.net>
Subject: Re: Swashbuckling on Saurus

Do you have something like classical buckeneers or laser pistols for the
crew in mind? I am reminded of the Enterprise crew in the beginning of
the movie in a sail ship. Computer comes up and relays a message.

Well, how about food rations? This should limit the range on the high
seas, until the next coastal raid, priracy or trade harbour. 

There doesn't seem to be much difference between the galley and sailing
ships. The latter is a bit smaller with less crew. Why not specific
damage hits like sails or oar sections, reduce maneuveur and speed?

Best Regards,
Crystal.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 01:05:50 EST
From: GypsyComet <GypsyComet@aol.com>
Subject: Big Book of Hulls

Could someone remind me where the extended list of QSDS hulls resides? A look
in the obvious places didn't turn it up.  As part of this search I noticed
that the GDW-beta ftp site isn't answering this evening...

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:43:27
From: Paolo Marino <marino@inrete.it>
Subject: Traveller Demo

Here in Turin there is a small RPG convention (usually in October). It's
quite minor, even for the Italian RPG scene, but it still offers a good
opportunity to showcase Traveller to some new players.
Hey, I could even start organizing my own IPTS [Italian Peninsula
Traveller Support] group.

Anyway, the question is this: what would you consider a good theme for
an introductory Traveller adventure? Consider that being a convention
scenario I will have to plan for some constraints, i.e. it should be as
self-contained as possible. I think I'll use pre-generate characters
(which will help insure that everybody got the right mix of skills) in
order to save time, even if the Traveller chargen is one of the more
distinctive points of the game.

So, I'd like some ideas from the list. Either a brief note on what
themes *you* would like to introduce in a "demo" scenario, or pointers
to published adventures which, in your opinion, would work well for
this. I don't own a large collection of Traveller Stuff, but a friend of
mine has a large collection of older and semi-obscure stuff from
Traveller's Glory Days, and he will have no problem in lending me some.




__  Paolo Marino  __          |Inrete Games Page: www.inrete.it/games/gms.html
 mc4799@mclink.it (Preferred) | marino@inrete.it (Best for MIME/BinHex)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:41:02 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Question: Computers St vs Fb, what is this really?

Storage might well go to optical, but what of the entire system? I 
think that the FIB systems use optics for everything.. Processors, 
Memory, Nearline Storage, Cabling.. everything.. I see Std's as using 
electronics (in some form.. biomechanincal, perhaps? That might not 
be tooo far off now) and the EMP will still disrupt the electrical 
connections..

Just a thot :)

Cya

>     Of course, my answer to this is that noone has a clue what a computer will
> be composed of, or be capable of, in a couple of thousand years.  One can only
> suspend their disbelief so far, so I think its best to leave the exact
> composition (and  capabilities) of Traveller computers an enigma.  Or
> excluding that, to make some technobabble and "new," as yet undiscovered
> "computer hardware element" and architecture.  To assume that they're
> completely different from our computers today.
>     Trying to stick to *canon,*I see advances from magnetic storage to
> optical, then to holographic w/ synaptic processors (at least in the Starship
> Operators Manual).  So i'd say synpatic, but then the whole St, Fb thing
> doesn't make sense, does it?  What does EMP do to synapses?  
> 
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com           http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

Thought for the day:
    Concerto (n): a fight between a piano and a pianist.

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 23:17:38 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: TravIRC

At 7:43 PM 21-01-98, Suzette C. Dollar wrote:

>Next week is sure to be a winner:
>
>How To Think and Act Like an Alien... presented by TML's own Kenji
>Schwarz.

Erm... just for the record, this is serious, not a joke at yr. obt. svt.'s
expense.  Or at least, not _merely_ a joke.

I'm sure *many* *other* members of the list have valuable thoughts,
observations and anecdotes on this subject, so I urge you all to come
participate or lurk or heckle.


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:38:02 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: the missile debate continues

>Look, *every* kind of traveller has long-range lasers; you have to allow
>me to use them in defending against missiles or you're just not playing
>Traveller. It's just that it wasn't until TNE that they realized such
>lasers violated the laws of physics and had to introduce grav focus to
>explain them. And in FFS1, while it does call it an "option", it states
>explicitly that it's an option that's part of the mainstream Imperial
>Traveller universe.

Before TNE there was no grav focus. Nilsen et al realised that you'd need
HUGE mirrors to get small spots at the space combat ranges they had decided
on but instead of doing the sensible things of either making the hexes
smaller or postulating that x-ray lasers came earlier than TL 13 (X-ray
lasers at TL 13+ was part of Striker I) they invented the horrible grav
focus thingy and also gave it some real strange physics.

More power to Bruce for not allowing grav focus but I agree that it seems
TNE & T4 canon.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:36:00 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Low Tech Colony Ship (shortened)

"Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net> wrote:

>Comparing to c (299,792,458m/s), we see that V/c = .0045, or roughly 0.45%
>the speed of light.
>
>Thus, it can travel 0.0045 ly a year, or 9ly in its operational (2000yr)
>lifetime.
>
>Not real good.
>
>If we devote the entire burn to acceleration, we get
>
>V = .4g x 9.81m/s^2 x 195hr x 3600s/hr = 2,754,648m/s or .009c.
>
>This gives a range of 18ly. Still not impressive, plus - how are you going
>to stop?
>
>When I say these aren't impressive, I don't mean that literally - 9ly is
>quite impressive. But in the Traveller universe, we've got ships that travel
>much farther than that using STL - like the C-Jammer from Trillion Credit
>Squadron.
>
>Any comments or ideas?

Could you fit two sets of fusion rockets to the ship and dump one set (*)
after acceleration, and use the second set for braking? Sort of like the
booster for a ramscoop to get to 1%C

(*) You would probably want to install a couple and drop them as each ran out.

Of course, then you have to harden the electronics.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:42:29 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: *Underwear* Lasers was:Re: the missile debate continues

Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net> wrote:

>Yes but then can the PD pen/dam the missile in question? If the missile is
>leaving after submunitons deployment, target is DOA anyway.

This was one of the big problems in StarCruiser (okay so it's 2300 not Trav
but it brought in the det-lasers). Your lasers acting in PD could hit
missiles, but often you didn't do enough damage to kill them. They just got
a -tve modifier to hit.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 00:47:15 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Major and Minor Human Races

kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz) wrote

> Marc Miller wrote:
> >Human Races of the Imperium (a partial list).
> [snip]

> I'm sort of fond of future anthropology, and managed to assemble the
> following list of published Ancient-transplanted human populations over time:
> 
> Name         Homeworld/Sector        Citation

> Darmine      Irap? /Zarushagar       ?

The Darmine are briefly mentioned in Challenge 73 "Oasis in a New Era"
(pg 68 - 74) by Greg Videll. Irap is discussed there and in the
adventure "Undercity (pg 6-15).  Irap is _not_ the Darmine homeworld, it
is merely a Darmine world.  The article says:

	Irap (2630 Oasis) was once one of the most densely populated worlds of
the Old Imperium.  Its population grew to such proportions that in time,
the surface of the world became covered by a single, world spanning
arcology.  As can be expected, Irap suffered grievously at the hands of
the Virus.  Tens of millions [billions ?] died during the Collapse. 
Oddly enough, though, it was the Virus which saved the planet.  
	The Virus gave rise to an artificial intelligence, or Ai which saved
the Irappi in order to use them to conduct a war against other
manifestations of the Virus.  THe war was rumored to have lasted several
years into the time after the collapse 9refered to locally as Durlineal,
which means "Failing Light" in Kadli, the language of the Darmine....
The leader of Irap is referred to as "His Most Sublime Emata", a
hereditary title dating back several thousand years.	

Library Data

Darmine:Interfertile human subspecies are thought to have colonized much
of Zarushagar sector, including Irap (2630) before the founding of the
Old [Third] Imperium.  Certain facets of Darmine culture persist into
the present day, the most notable being the race's language, Kadli.3

These are, of course secondary sources.  The primary source for data on
the Darmine in MT's Imperial Encyclopedia which states:

Darmine: Cultural region in the Zarushagar sector. Darmine had a
separate but submerged cultural identity within the First Imperium and
happily threw off that domination when the First Imperium fell. Allowed
to flourish by the Rule of Man, the community of worlds survived the
Long Night with little harm. 
     Darmine was the major focus of the llelish Pacification Campaign
(76 to 120). 

Some canonical source on the Darmine whose location I can not recall
also stated that Darmine did not have personal names ending in the
letter r.  Since I had already created a Darmine player charecter Trier
dehah Tarlineal before learning this I decided that Darmine did not
normally have names ending in the letter r as a sign of respect for the
prophet Telor.  This led me to realize that Darmine must not have very
many names and from this I developed the idea that Darmine names were
also the names of specific days of the Darmine year.  As depicted by me
Darmine society is matrilineal but patrilocal with no real gender
distinctions.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 01:15:23 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz) wrote

> Peter Newman wrote:
> >the nights
> >are very cold on Ishag.  Even with our peoples enthusiastic levels of
> >togetherness and action at night (orgies) the cold at night is one of
> >the leading causes of death in non technical populations.
> 
> ... am I reading this correctly when I understand that Darmine techs have
> _more_ sex than the non-technical ones?

Unfortunately not.

	Non technical populations means sub populations that do not have access
to the higher TL resources such as central heating.  The Darmine people
are not very favorably disposed towards charitable giving as it is
contrary to the destiny of the poor to interfere with their poverty
[unless it is your destiny to give].  Therefore we do not have
socialized payment of heating bills.  Some subsects of Darmine thought
are anti technical, although they are in the minority.  Approximately 5%
of the total Darmine population belong to subsects that have beliefs
similar to those of the Terran Amish.  While few of the Darmine actually
freeze to death it is common for the cold nights to place some strain on
those who are young, old, or sick this strain may be the base cause of
deaths by other means.  Thus we Darmine say that the moons [the cold
caused at night] kill people.

	Darmine health care is fairly advanced however Darmine populations
often have odd reactions to drugs and this has delayed our deveelopment
of a pharmocological science.  The reaction of a Darmine individual to a
drug will not be similar to that of a non Darmine human and it may well
vary from time to time.

Our scientists believe that when the ancients altered our ancestors for
heavy metal tolerance so that they could live on our homeworld they did
so in a fairly crude [for the ultratech Ancients way].  As our
biochemistries continuously seek out foreign objects such as heavy
metals, especially copper, bond with them and remove them from our
bodies into our hair and fingernails [thereby causing our distinctive
and beautiful green or blue hair and nails], and bodily wastes this
process will interact with, and often eliminate any medicines.  This
does mean we are hard to poison but we are also hard to medicate.

	Interestingly enough this problem is much less prevelant in persons
with some non Darmine ancestory, even though most of our biological
adaptations seem to be dominant and we are interfertile with other human
races.  It is fairly easy for Darmine woman to bear the children of non
Darmine men however it is somewhat more difficult for Darmine men to
fertilize non Darmine women [although not for lack of effort....]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:50:35 +0000
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

>The problem, of course, is mass. For this ship, the mass is tied up in three
>things - drive, power plant fuel, hull. The drive is pretty much
>untouchable - so we have to play with power plant fuel and hull mass.

You have to remember, the design rules are aimed at median designs for
general-purpose use. Basically, standard, mass produced ships to do
conventional things. The design you are talking about does not fit into
those parameters.
If you are designing a specialty purpose ship, you should allow yourself
to customise various features. For example, there was one table in
Rolemaster (allright, one _useful_ table) that gave you the choice of
"tweaking" some of the standard equipment. The assumption was that
you got it specially made for yourself. You could have it be lighter or
stronger. The lighter you wanted it, the more it cost. All the way down
to 0-5% of the original mass for 500x the price. Similarly for stronger.
  What I suggest, is that you assume that for a specialty purpose craft
such as you are designing, that lower mass alternatives are available,
although a significantly higher costs. After all, modern spacecraft are
not made from the same materials we design our cars from!

As for slowing down, a couple of ideas spring to mind.

Gravity: although slingshotting is usually used by space probes to
accelerate, I think it is equally possible to use it to slow down as
well. With an appropriate course, the ship could sling around the
target sun, and maybe any orbiting jupiter sized masses, one or
more times to slow down. Sure, it make take a few years, but after
2000, who cares.
Alternatively, do the modern space probe thing. Fling yourself
past a few other stars on the way to set up your trajectory so
that you end up in orbit around the target star. Remember, you
don't have to shed all your velocity, just convert it from linear
velocity to orbital velocity.

Aerobraking: Using the atmosphere to slow down. Like in the 2010
film. No, I'm not really serious about this one. Using atmosphere
to brake from 45% of c would be a bit silly. But it does lead on to:

Chronobraking: Same principle as Aerobraking, but instead dragging
against the stars Chromosphere, or more likely, its magnetic field.
Use some of those MW to generate a big magnetic field around
the ship that will repluse the star's field. Possibly in combination
with Gravity.

Light sail: Deploy this early on, they should be light. You don't get
a lot of thrust/braking, but if you are talking in a millenial timescale
then it might add up.

Ion drive: I don't have the stats. Might this add up over a very long
period? Use your fusion (or disposable rockets as someone
suggested) to acceleration, then dissassemble your fusion drive
as you go and use it as fuel for an ion drive. Hell, you've got
years to decelerate...

Cheers,

Jo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:28:49 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Spurious worlds from sunbane data

Derrick Jones writes:
>In my Traveller Access database, I have noticed the following
>peculiarities...
>The sizes come up as 'unknown' in Galactic, and the blank UPP worlds show 
>worlds present but no physical data for them. Not surprising if data was
>downloaded
>from the Sunbane ftp sites like mine was.
>Any one shed any light on the situation?
> 
>Code			UPP		size	
>Daibei 2114		DSA2003-9	S	?
>Old Exp 2537		BBC0923-C	B	?
>Old Exp 2640		ACA0AC9-E	C	?what do these mean
>Old Exp 2933		CBC4735-9	B	?
>Old Exp 2935		BCC4899-B	C	?
>Reavers D 0320		CB48ADD-7	B	?

'S' stands for 'small' (I _think_ it is between 200 and 900 miles, but I
may be misremembering). 'B' and 'C' are offficially not possible, but
ought to stand for 11 and 12 (ie. 11,000 and 12,000 miles diameter). You
can make Galactic recognize them by messing with one of the files (I
forget what it's called; it's the one with all the various UPP definitions.
You'll know it when you see it. I think it is in the 'gen' sub-directory).


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:34:32 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/22/98 11:34 AM

<<
>>>"Happy Landings - Starports in Traveller" by Thomas M Price, in WD 43. I
>>>liked that a lot and have used it on and off ever since, although I'm
not
>>>sure all those 5 km runways are necessary.
>>
>>So does anyone have a copy they can scan and send me?
>>
>
>I Would be interested in a copy also.
>
>                     James W. Brewer
>                     Univ. of Calif. at San Diego
That's at least 4, why don't you just post it.
>>

Sorry, guys, but I don't think that would be quite right... here are the
problems, how do we fix 'em?

1. I don't have access to a scanner, only a single hard copy of an
irreplaceable magazine. Somebody close to me (Basingstoke, UK - voted the
second most boring town in England, but I assure you they haven't looked
inside *my* house) must have one we could use. Any offers?

2. We ought to get Thomas M. Price's permission - he is the author. We can
get around this one if Thomas agrees. Does anyone know where he is now?

3. Games Workshop own the copyright, as it was published in White Dwarf
about 20 years ago and copyright has not been reassigned to my knowledge.
In email discussion with me, GW have said it would be OK for me to post my
articles on the Web so long as they retain the copyright, and each such
article is clearly marked (c) Games Workshop 19xx to protect that
copyright. I did not discuss other people's articles, nor posting to a
mailing list. GW are doing us a favour by taking the above position, and I
don't want to abuse this trust by extending beyond what was discussed. Nor
do I want to open such a discussion on behalf of another author, especially
without his permission.

I think Bryan Borich intended to talk to GW about the IISS Ship Files and
other items, and he may have more up to date info on a wider picture - what
say, Bryan? Anyone?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 04:02:41 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Dumarest and Traveller

> Interestingly enough, given that Tubb is a UK author it would explain the
> spelling of Traveller with two 'l's.  He refers several times in the first
> volume to Travellers being a breed apart.  Evidently Marc was influenced by
> the milieu and adopted Tubb's spelling as well.
> 
> Anyway, thanks again for starting me off on the Dumarest saga and if anyone
> else out there hasn't tried it - take it from a new convert, at least give
> the first one a shot, you won't be disappointed!
> 
> tc

I used to own the entire series, and after a couple re-reads, began to
find Earl Dumarest's "infinite street wisdom" a bit pendantic.  It began
to get on my nerves.  So I sold the books.  Now I'm wishing I hadn't.

:)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 05:37:26 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: What is an MFD

To control multiple missiles in flight...that's what I thought the main
advantage of an MFD was!

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Tsykoduk wrote:

> Anything that garners a bonus to hit would be a good thing, eh?
> 
> > 
> > I don't see why a fighter would need a MFD, though.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:06:46 +0000
From: Phil Kitching <PhilK@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Missiles

>
>Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:02:48 +0000
>From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com>
>Subject: Re: Missiles
>
>Ok.. So I am floating in my pool.. With a long long string attached 
>to a cork. I pull the cork.
>
>Do I float or follow the water? I caused the 'well' to form.
>
>Also, if I do sit in a metallic object, and throw a magnet ahead of 
>it, why will it not move? The energy cost is high (as TP's should 
>be... and are) but after the magnet hits the ground, I move, as does 
>everything else metal in the area.
>
>I am sorry, but I still cannot see how it would not work.
>
The problem is an incomplete analysis.
Sure the magnet pulls you forward after it lands, but according to old
Issac, the momentum that you gave it to throw it ahead of you pushes you
backwards.
If you end up attached to the magnet, then conservation of momentum suggests
that you will be back where you started and at the same velocity.
If you do the experiment on Earth and get a different result, then I am
confident that the difference is caused by friction.
Of course, it would be better if you throw the magnet behind you far enough
that you aren't pulled back to it, but then, that's just a normal reaction
drive.
- --
  Mailto:Philk@btinternet.com (don't blame BT - they only pay me:)
  Why shoot at a Vargr ship without warning?
  If the captain doesn't put his head out of the window, it must be a
  pirate trying to achieve surprise :)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 07:42:25 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Demo

Paolo Marino <marino@inrete.it> wrote:

>Here in Turin there is a small RPG convention (usually in October). It's
>quite minor, even for the Italian RPG scene, but it still offers a good
>opportunity to showcase Traveller to some new players.
>Hey, I could even start organizing my own IPTS [Italian Peninsula
>Traveller Support] group.
>
>Anyway, the question is this: what would you consider a good theme for
>an introductory Traveller adventure? Consider that being a convention
>scenario I will have to plan for some constraints, i.e. it should be as
>self-contained as possible. I think I'll use pre-generate characters
>(which will help insure that everybody got the right mix of skills) in
>order to save time, even if the Traveller chargen is one of the more
>distinctive points of the game.
>
>So, I'd like some ideas from the list. Either a brief note on what
>themes *you* would like to introduce in a "demo" scenario, or pointers
>to published adventures which, in your opinion, would work well for
>this. I don't own a large collection of Traveller Stuff, but a friend of
>mine has a large collection of older and semi-obscure stuff from
>Traveller's Glory Days, and he will have no problem in lending me some.

Just because you are using pre-generated characters doesn't mean you have to
skip a demo of the process.  You could start with a brief description of the
process and then take the simplest character in your batch (maybe an NPC)
and go through the generation process using a list of "pre-rolled" numbers.

Show them the list and tell them you were going to use the numbers on it
rather than rolling them to save time.  Then each time you use one you draw
a line through it.  When you get done, you have several left over, but
that's OK, because you are done with the character.

When you are done with the process, you show them the character that you
generated from it using those numbers earlier.  You don't even have to show
them the entire process, just enough for them to understand how it works.

One last tip, always ask for questions.  If you can answer them briefly, do
so.   If the answer will take some time, tell the questioner that the answer
is rather involved, long, ect. and ask to get together after, or get a name
and phone number or address (this is also an excellent way to make new
friends).  If you don't know the answer, you can say something like, "I
don't know, but, I know how to find out."  Then get their name and phone
number or address.  I'll bet that with the combined knowledge and contacts
represented on the TML, we could answer any question that could be asked by
any outsider (i.e. non-Traveller).

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:52:22 +0000
From: Phil Kitching <PhilK@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re:Low Tech Colony Ship

>
>Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:18:31 -0600
>From: "Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net>
>Subject: Low Tech Colony Ship (long)
>
>I've been playing around with designing a low-tech colony ship (around TL
>9). Here are the parameters for my design - I don't claim that these are
>good choices for starting up a colony, I've done little or no research on
>the matter...

<snip very interesting colony ship>

suggestions

Don't use the passenger type low berths. I would stringly suggest using the
frozen watch protocols ie lots of preparation time to the low berth in
exchange for easy and rapid "defrosting".
Especially since someone will be the first to be revived and is relying on a
2000 year old robot to do the job :)

I think that you should be allowed to ignore the usual "emergency
evacuation in 90 seconds"
requirement (ie 500 airlocak) - a couple of airlocks for maintenance should
suffice :)

Forget the radar and the tracker, any proper spaceships out there should
avoid you.
The real question is
	"what are you going to do about something you spot?"

assume that the closing velocity is 10,000km/s (ie about twice yours)

s = escape distance (ie how far you can move sideways before collision)
a = acceleration (0.6g = 6m/s^2)
t = acceleration time (assume 1 second - you need some fuel left :)
d = detection distance (50mkm)
v = closing velocity (10,000km/s ie about twice yours)

s = at(t/2 + (d/v - t)
  = 30 km (more than enough)

so you can probably get away with a smaller passive scanner and save power.

The suggestion of booster rockets to start with has already been made, as
has using
a metal hull.
Also consider dumping all the spent radioactives before decelerating -
as long as they are going to miss the planet there should be no problem
(in fact you probably wouldn't want them on the ship anyway).

I do have a technology qestion:
Are there artificial wombs by TL9?
Also 40 std of embryos means lots of std of babycare products :)
Otherwise you're going to have to ship living animals, at which point
the embryos give genetic diversity but not much else.

Phil Kitching
- --
  Mailto:Philk@btinternet.com (don't blame BT - they only pay me:)
  Why shoot at a Vargr ship without warning?
  If the captain doesn't put his head out of the window, it must be a
  pirate trying to achieve surprise :)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:34:22 -0600 (CST)
From: Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com>
Subject: Re: Missiles

On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Tsykoduk wrote:
> Also, if I do sit in a metallic object, and throw a magnet ahead of 
> it, why will it not move? The energy cost is high (as TP's should 
> be... and are) but after the magnet hits the ground, I move, as does 
> everything else metal in the area.

If you are in space and you throw the magnet ahead of you, you will
start moving backwards at first.  Eventually, you and the magnet will be
pulled back together and will end up exactly where you started.  This
is called conservation of momentum.

Currently, you can generate a magnetic field around a magnetic object
which will pull you forward.  Unfortunately every method of doing so
will generate equal, but opposte forces which push you back.  Since
we don't know how to generate gravity wells that aren't attached to
a mass it's hard to say how it would work, but whatever it did
would violate conservation of momentum and would most likely have
some interesting ramifications.

Bolie IV


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #28
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Thursday, January 22 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 029



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: the missile debate continues
Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: Missiles
My spreadsheet program...
World "Skills"
Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography
Major and Minor Human Races
Re: missiles in space
Re: Missiles
Re: Missiles
Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography
Re: the missile debate continues
Re: the missile debate continues
RE: Missiles
Re: Missiles
Re: the missile debate continues
Re: Missiles
Re: Some low-tech ship questions...
Re: Missiles
Re: Traveller Demo
Survival Still
Re: Major and Minor Human Races

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:47:50 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: the missile debate continues

 
> Before TNE there was no grav focus. Nilsen et al realised that you'd need
> HUGE mirrors to get small spots at the space combat ranges they had decided
> on but instead of doing the sensible things of either making the hexes
> smaller or postulating that x-ray lasers came earlier than TL 13 (X-ray
> lasers at TL 13+ was part of Striker I) they invented the horrible grav
> focus thingy and also gave it some real strange physics.
> 
> More power to Bruce for not allowing grav focus but I agree that it seems
> TNE & T4 canon.
 
Funny, I'd look at it the other way. We know that CT/MT lasers were
effective at several light seconds. We know that said lasers fit
into little CT turrets (so they weren't meters accross). So I'd have
to say that they *had* to be grav-focused, or some other (less
plausable?) explanation for making a 4m mirror fit in a 1 ton turret.

Any better ideas for how you get effective several light second
ranged lasers into a little turret?

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:07:32 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

If you are not committed to a millennial mission, then I would recommend the
Bussard Ramjet.  While accelerating to ram speed (3000 km/s), fuel can be
provided by tankers which could match velocity with the mother ship and dock
then pump fuel into her tanks.  Once you reach ram speed, fuel is free.
Half way to your destination, you turn around and begin deceleration, using
your ram drive on the free fuel available.  Once you reach your destination
the tankers will do their job again.

Even if you have to reduce the acceleration to .1 G, you will still save
much time in transit.  Using the formulas posted earlier, I find that the
time up to ram speed would be less than 35 days.  It would cover a distance
of 60 AU and use a total of 1,500,000 Td of fuel (based on a loaded weight
of 900 kt which I know is more than your "Mass (Loaded/Clean):
827,423t/543,423t", but gives us a working figure).

By the way, your tanks and tankers would be full on arrival and any cargo
areas holding cargo that would not be damaged by cryogenic liquids could be
used as auxiliary fuel tanks.

If you are including modular cutters in her compliment. This represents
50,000 loads or one load arriving every 60 seconds.  This is doable, but I
would probably go with a larger tanker.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:36:31 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Missiles

Phil Kitching <PhilK@btinternet.com> wrote:

>>
>>Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:02:48 +0000
>>From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com>
>>
>>Ok.. So I am floating in my pool.. With a long long string attached
>>to a cork. I pull the cork.
>>
>>Do I float or follow the water? I caused the 'well' to form.


Actually you do both.  If the drain is large enough, you'll be suck right
out of the pool.

>>Also, if I do sit in a metallic object, and throw a magnet ahead of
>>it, why will it not move? The energy cost is high (as TP's should
>>be... and are) but after the magnet hits the ground, I move, as does
>>everything else metal in the area.
>>
>>I am sorry, but I still cannot see how it would not work.
>>
>The problem is an incomplete analysis.
>Sure the magnet pulls you forward after it lands, but according to old
>Issac, the momentum that you gave it to throw it ahead of you pushes you
>backwards.
>If you end up attached to the magnet, then conservation of momentum
suggests
>that you will be back where you started and at the same velocity.
>If you do the experiment on Earth and get a different result, then I am
>confident that the difference is caused by friction.
>Of course, it would be better if you throw the magnet behind you far enough
>that you aren't pulled back to it, but then, that's just a normal reaction
>drive.

Now if you could figure a way to put the magnet out there without throwing
it...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:37:36 -0600
From: "Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: My spreadsheet program...

Just can't stop tweaking...

Version 1.9 of my FF&S2 starship design spreadsheet for Excel is now freely
available on my web site. The site address is:
www.ames.net/igor/trav/trav.htm. Once you get there, simply go to the
Drydock page.

Fixes/Changes/Additions in this version include:
* Fixed volume and area calculations for asteroid hulls.
* Fixed some fuel mass problems (such as LH2 weighing 1.07 instead of .07,
ack)
* Fixed the crew totals in the summary bar.
* Fixed some primitive thrust agencies problems.
* Fixed many broken items pertaining to low tech level (9-10) craft.
* Changed the primitive thrust agencies to use the more realistic logrithmic
mass function for calculating fuel endurance in g-hours.
* Changed the HEPlaR thrust agency to use the more realistic logrithmic mass
function for calculating fuel endurance in g-hours.
* Added the optional ability to store fuel in the waste space caused by
streamlining.

The most important change is the fact that fuel-based sublight drives
(primitive drives and HEPlaR) are now using the logrithmic mass-based
function for fuel endurance. One side affect of this is that you no longer
specify how many g-hours of fuel you want - that is next to impossible to
reliably calculate because the formula is circular (it depends on mass - add
more fuel, you add more mass...). So now you specify how many displacement
tons (std, 14m3) of fuel you want the system to carry - and it calculates
the G-hour endurance. Not as simple, perhaps, but more realistic and even
beneficial (especially for low-tech rockets with heavy fuels).

Another note: Many Excel 5.0 users have reported a variety of error messages
and #VALUE results. I have no answer for this. I'm working on this
spreadsheet in Excel 97, but I specifically save it in the Excel 5.0/7.0
format. I am not using any advanced functions that aren't supported in Excel
5, to the best of my knowledge. So unless someone can tell me otherwise, I
have to assume the problem is with Excel 97s export filter, and theres not
much I can do about it.

For the record, heres a short list of the functions I'm using:
CONCATENATE(), CHOOSE(), VLOOKUP(), IF(), AND(), OR(), ISERR(), FIXED(),
ROUND(),SQRT(). All of these should work in excel 5.

I'm sorry for any problems people have been having.

Andrew Akins
igor@ames.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 21:19 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: World "Skills"

Moin Robert Eaglestone,

	sounds good.

> Since the trade classifier section is already tight, this should
> only be used when absolutely necessary.

	The problem is that anything can be within the comments section.
	e.g. my Rure has something like :

	Gabradio      1618 C610524-A           [A2575E]    335 Rd M0 V M7 D

	the numbers in brackets are the virus population :

	class A Starport
	25=200000 robots
	7=Parent Strain
	5=Law level as usual
	E=Tech level as usual

	But as its probately more important to know that your system is
	selling TL8 medics at TL6 price, it justifies the space ;-)

By Michael
- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:49:56 GMT
From: wayeye@geocities.com
Subject: Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography

On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:59:10 -0600, you wrote:

>James W Brewer <jwbrewer@ucsd.edu> wrote:
>
>
>>>>"Happy Landings - Starports in Traveller" by Thomas M Price, in WD 43. I
>>>>liked that a lot and have used it on and off ever since, although I'm not
>>>>sure all those 5 km runways are necessary.
>>>
>>>So does anyone have a copy they can scan and send me?
>>>
>>
>>I Would be interested in a copy also.
>>
>>                     James W. Brewer
>>                     Univ. of Calif. at San Diego
>
>
>That's at least 4, why don't you just post it.

And another :)

If it's not too much trouble, thanks.

Carl Stovell
wayeye@geocities.com
Newcastle, England.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 20:09 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Major and Minor Human Races

Moin CardSharks,

> 	Suerrat 

	befor the 3I contacts them, they have to cross the Lancian region.
	The Suerrat expansion, become a problem later during the antebellum.

	Here is an exerpt from David Burdens writeup - for further reference
	look at his homepage, or ask me for email.

	BTW: M1 should be pacification campain for joy of the "gun geeks" ;-)

	--------------------------------------------------------------------

	The Region covers 5 subsectors and is centered on Subsector D
	( Tansa ) of Gushemege Sector. Three subsectors lie in Gushemege
	( Taapvaia, Tansa, Isi Ahto ), and one each in Corridor ( Sashrakusha )
	and Dagudashaag ( Mimu ).

	Pure blooded racial Lancians, who originated on Kukhun in Tansa
	Subsector, average 1.9m in height and mass about 70 kg. They are
	thinner and taller than most Solomani, usually with fair skins
	and light brown or straw hair.  Due to dietary incompatibilities
	with Kukhunen fauna the original Kukhunen were vegetarian, and
	this is still a characteristic of most Lancian societies.  To
	all intents and purposes the average Lancian is nowadays
	indistinguishable from the mass of starfaring humaniti. The fact
	that being "Lancian" is more a way of living than an accident of
	biology is often not fully appreciated by sentients from beyond
	the bounds of the Region.

	Kukhun ( 3105 B658997-E ) was seeded by the Ancients with human
	stock around 300,000 years ago. By the time that the Vilani
	Naasirka bureau made first contact around -9100 they had reached
	TL4. The Kukhunen were a creative culture, but with a taste for
	violence and a mind of their own that did not take too kindly to
	the rigidity of Vilani rule. In concert with the neighbouring
	S'mrii they were continually champing at the bit of Vilani rule.

	At War: Problems began in -24 when the Lancian Confederation was
	approached by the Sylean Federation to join their federation of
	the stars. Efforts to bring the Confederation into line were
	increased from 36 onwards as the Third Imperium began to flex
	its muscles. The Lancians, with bad memories of the First and
	Second Imperiums, and now with a culture that was fundamentally
	different from that espoused by Emperor Cleon I, were none to
	keen to surrender their independence. A cold war soon gave way
	to a widespread campaign of terrorism and destabilisation. By 57
	open war had broken out on several worlds as Artemsus sent
	Imperial aid to guerillas fighting Lancian governments. By 73
	most other worlds in Gushemege had joined the Imperium; even
	sever all non-Lancian dominated worlds from the Confederation
	had signed up.  In 74 non-Lancians on the strategic world of
	Shiramuunir ( 2507 C444AC8-F ) revolted in defiance of the
	Lancian government, calling for Imperium help to free them from
	Lancian "tyranny".

	Artemsus finally lost patience and sent in the Fleet, as much to
	stop the expansion of Lancian philosophy, which had been gaining
	ground, as to bring Lancia into the Imperium. Artemsus' great
	mistake was to put the Duke of Vland in charge of the Campaign.
	The Vilani Pacification Campaign was as long and bloody as it
	was since the Lancians and S'mrii saw it as a replay of the
	Consolidation Wars of 5000 years previously.  In the end the
	Imperium, in the form of Vland's Makhidkarun Bureau, prevailed
	and in 120 the Lancian worlds joined the Third Imperium, but
	under sufferance.
- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 20:37 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: missiles in space

Moin Bruce Alan Macintosh,

> -if you want to be on a vector such that when the missile blows up the
> fragments hit the target, you've severley restricted the ability of the
> missile to evade - it'll get hit at much longer range, giving the 
> target time to get out of the way of the debris cloud. (In practice there
> will be a complex dance between the PD laser and the missile, as the
> tiny missile brain trys to trade off ability to hit target vs evasion...but
> lasers in Traveller are so good it's hard for the missile to win.

	If you place a transponder on the missile sending its course to
	the intercepting firecontrol, it should be possible to show naval
	stupidity^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^hintelligence, that KKMs are imposible.

	But as I'm a Brilliant Lances player, even normal missiles are
	imposible to spot. If you add decoys or a white out, the task
	for obtaining a sensor lock is beyond imposible. So the TNE joke
	that dampers only work in Jo's Garage. A PD laser can probately
	hit and destroy several missiles, but it need a fire control lock
	to do so, and as missiles have at least a 4/3/4/3/1 signature, the
	to lock is imposible and to hit difficult in best conditions.

	A KKM deploying 6 submissiles, 6 decoys and a white out at 30kkm
	is a slippy target ;-) Imho space combat and especialy missiles
	should be considered broken in T4. A KKM would make 1d6 single
	hits, while a nuclear missile 1d6 double hits, if I tanslate BL
	to the T4 system - where of course armor is broken also ;-( If
	you want to simplify space combat by using UCP values - look at
	BR, its done right there ;-)

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 07:57:20 PST
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Missiles

Hal writes:
>
><grinning>
> Is there any reason then, that the warhead has to be a warhead?  > 
Can't it be something else like an ECM package?
>           Hal
>

Again, in the book "The Gamester Wars", in the third of the set, the 
antagonist gains access to the Ancients' (the Travellers) missiles.  
These are high tech nukes.  They are homing types, but they have 
enhanced masking capability, similar in effect to a black globe.  They 
appear only long enough to lock on a target, then disappear for some 
seconds, only to appear again to update its' lock.  Makes it near 
impossible in the book to destroy them (but then, the victim is in a 
ship without a capable PD system.

Wonder if that could be a TL advance that the "General Dynamics", LSPs, 
Sternmetals of the Imperium would be working on to bring the missile 
back into vogue....

Greg

The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:00:17 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Missiles

Ok.. That I understand :)

(Sorry.. I am a computer geek, not a physics geek..Sometimes it takes 
a while to pound a thought into my stubborn head)..

Cya

> The problem is an incomplete analysis.
> Sure the magnet pulls you forward after it lands, but according to old
> Issac, the momentum that you gave it to throw it ahead of you pushes you
> backwards.
> If you end up attached to the magnet, then conservation of momentum suggests
> that you will be back where you started and at the same velocity.
> If you do the experiment on Earth and get a different result, then I am
> confident that the difference is caused by friction.
> Of course, it would be better if you throw the magnet behind you far enough
> that you aren't pulled back to it, but then, that's just a normal reaction
> drive.
> 
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com           http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

Thought for the day:
    Communist (n): one who has given up all hope
    of becoming a Capitalist.

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:09:29 PST
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography

- ----Original Message Follows----
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography
Reply-To: traveller@mpgn.com

Sorry, guys, but I don't think that would be quite right... here are the 
problems, how do we fix 'em?

<<1. I don't have access to a scanner, only a single hard copy of an
irreplaceable magazine. Somebody close to me (Basingstoke, UK - voted 
the second most boring town in England, but I assure you they haven't 
looked inside *my* house) must have one we could use. Any offers?>>

I discovered that the scanner here in my office has been inop for a 
couple of weeks, no get well date given.  I'm in communication with Joe 
Heck to get him a copy....the rest of the below we will have to work 
out...

<<2. We ought to get Thomas M. Price's permission - he is the author. We 
can get around this one if Thomas agrees. Does anyone know where he is 
now?

3. Games Workshop own the copyright....

I think Bryan Borich intended to talk to GW about the IISS Ship Files 
and other items, and he may have more up to date info on a wider picture 
- - what say, Bryan? Anyone? >>

Greg
The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:05:55 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: the missile debate continues

Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com> wrote:

<snip>
>We know that CT/MT lasers were
>effective at several light seconds. We know that said lasers fit
>into little CT turrets (so they weren't meters accross). So I'd have
>to say that they *had* to be grav-focused, or some other (less
>plausable?) explanation for making a 4m mirror fit in a 1 ton turret.
>
>Any better ideas for how you get effective several light second
>ranged lasers into a little turret?

Fresnel (sp?) lenses?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:13:12 +0000
From: Phil Kitching <PhilK@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: the missile debate continues

Whilst trav tech is probably the best place to discuss the relative merits
of PD lasers versus 100MCr missiles...

In the "real" (ie Traveller) world, a 100MCr ship with no point defence
weapons moving on a fairly predictable course with a very high closing
velocity
that has to get within 30,000km to fire ought to be the dream target of all
time
for a cheap kinetic kill missile.

I can't be bothered to do the sums, but I would expect that a sub-1MCr
anti-missile-missile can be built that guarantees a kill at a safe distance.

The real problem is that if you spend enough on a missile, it just becomes
a ship with no crew. So your fleet just uses its anti-fighter defences.

The only navies that have problems are those that have done the sums,
decided that it doesn't work and saved money by not providing a defence.
Individual ships that aren't multi-role have the same problems, but then
they shouldn't be let out on their own.

Its just like the PAW armed rocks vs Meson gun armed dispersed structure
arguments. If both sides have the same attack/defence conclusions its
a slogging match. If they disagree, its carnage :)

Phil Kitching
- --
  Mailto:Philk@btinternet.com (don't blame BT - they only pay me:)
  Why shoot at a Vargr ship without warning?
  If the captain doesn't put his head out of the window, it must be a
  pirate trying to achieve surprise :)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:10:38 -0500
From: John Toth <jtoth@erols.com>
Subject: RE: Missiles

How about this...

I hold a flashlight in my hands (We will call this flashlight a 
GravityWellMaker).

I push a button to turn the light.  Where the Illuminated area (15m away) 
is on the floor a gravity well starts.. but I turn the 'light' off really 
quick.

The Well doesn't just poof away, but coasts into normal state (1 nano 
sec?). But I coast forward just a little.

While this is going on I have 'flashed my light' another 15m away (I moved 
Forward Remember) the process starts again.
My movement occurs in the time my 'light' goes off and the decay ends.

I have to stop now, my head hurts....
John

- ------------------------------>
If you are in space and you throw the magnet ahead of you, you will
start moving backwards at first.  Eventually, you and the magnet will be...
<snip>
....a mass it's hard to say how it would work, but whatever it did
would violate conservation of momentum and would most likely have
some interesting ramifications.

Bolie IV
- ------------------------------>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:19:09 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Missiles

Stutterwarp it :)

> 
> Now if you could figure a way to put the magnet out there without throwing
> it...
> 
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com           http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

Thought for the day:
    A penny saved is ridiculous.

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:19:09 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: the missile debate continues

Heck.. we could fit THREE in a one DT turret.. So they had to be 1/3 
DT each (the person sat in the one DT Fire Control Station). That's 
pretty small.. and in all of the art they looked a heck of a lot like 
a cannon.. Long pointy things and all..

Cya

> Funny, I'd look at it the other way. We know that CT/MT lasers were
> effective at several light seconds. We know that said lasers fit
> into little CT turrets (so they weren't meters accross). So I'd have
> to say that they *had* to be grav-focused, or some other (less
> plausable?) explanation for making a 4m mirror fit in a 1 ton turret.
> 
> Any better ideas for how you get effective several light second
> ranged lasers into a little turret?
> 
> -Merrick
> 
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com           http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

Thought for the day:
    Book (n): a utensil used to pass time while waiting
    for the TV repairman.

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:28:36 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Missiles

Tsykoduk <tsykoduk@sprynet.com>


>Ok.. That I understand :)
>
>(Sorry.. I am a computer geek, not a physics geek..Sometimes it takes 
>a while to pound a thought into my stubborn head)..

I guess we all have our blind spots.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 01:15:05 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Some low-tech ship questions...

Andrew Akins wrote:
> 
> I apologize if this got sent out multiple times - my mail system is acting
> flaky...
> 
> Wow...designing low tech ships are hard...maybe thats why NASA hasn't
> designed a starship yet :P
> 
> I'm still working on my low-tech colony ship, and I have some questions...
> What is the feasability of the various fuel types lasting in tanks for
> centuries?
> 
> I ask, of course, because a colony ship's flight time could well be measured
> in centuries, and the power plant (at the very least) would need to continue
> running (if only to support the low berths). Also, if the ship is gonna
> stop, it needs to save roughly half its drive fuel for the turnaround and
> deceleration portion. It was my understanding that liquid hydrogen would
> boil off or bleed out of the tanks eventually.
> 
> Is that true? What about deuterium, the fuel for low-tech fusion drives.
> 
> And for fission drives - what's the half-life of their fuel? Would their
> stores still be good after centuries?
> 
> I'm assuming my thermonuclear pulse pellets, being solid, would still be
> okay.
> 
> The biggest problem I'm running into now is power. I got my design worked
> out so that it requires just under 20MW of power. Sounds simple. Just drop
> in a small 20MW fission reactor. Works like a charm (this is at TL9).
> The problem is mass, particularly for the fuel. A true generation/sleeper
> ship is going to need fuel in the range of centuries/millenia - and
> radioactives are HEAVY. When I put in 2000 years worth of radioactives on
> the ship (which brings up a whole slew of problems, I know...but that's
> beside the point), the power plant fuel is nearly 2/3 the mass of the ship.
> 
> None of the other power sources work well - fusion is too big at TL9, and
> none of the other types are rated in years. Is there a way to have a closed
> circuit fuel cell? You know, the kind that generates water as its reaction,
> then re-cracks the water along the way to reuse the fuel. Or is the power to
> crack the water prohibitive. Could you have a fuel-cell/battery combo that
> was constantly cracking/combining water? I imagine the plant would have be
> bigger than 20MW, to handle the inefficiency. But this still might be a
> better idea...
> 
> Note: I'm not an engineer or scientist, so if this is way off base, I
> apologize for offending people's sensibilities :)

Why not just add fuel scoops and an auto processing plant. Surely for
the length of time your travelling through space your going to pass
through or near enough to a gas giant to replenish dwindling stocks. 
Simplistic but this is fantasy afterall.
Jim

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:43:20 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Missiles

>  Is there any reason then, that the warhead has to be a warhead?  Can't it
>be something else like an ECM package?
>
>           Hal

There are advantages to making the warhead/payload fairly dense for
penetration purposes but if you can spare some penetration anything with
mass will do.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:43:35 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Demo

In a message dated 98-01-22 01:42:31 EST, you write:

<< So, I'd like some ideas from the list. Either a brief note on what
 themes *you* would like to introduce in a "demo" scenario, or pointers
 to published adventures which, in your opinion, would work well for
 this. I don't own a large collection of Traveller Stuff, but a friend of
 mine has a large collection of older and semi-obscure stuff from
 Traveller's Glory Days, and he will have no problem in lending me some.  >>

I think you should play Memory Alpha (its included in the Traveller Referee
Screen). 


Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:52:13 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Survival Still

Does anyone know how much the Survival Still-11 (CSC p 30) uses?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:58:03 -0600
From: "Steven Bonneville" <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Major and Minor Human Races

Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net> wrote:

> Darmine:Interfertile human subspecies are thought to have colonized much
> of Zarushagar sector, including Irap (2630) before the founding of the
> Old [Third] Imperium.  Certain facets of Darmine culture persist into
> the present day, the most notable being the race's language, Kadli.
[...]
> Darmine: Cultural region in the Zarushagar sector. Darmine had a
> separate but submerged cultural identity within the First Imperium and
> happily threw off that domination when the First Imperium fell. Allowed
> to flourish by the Rule of Man, the community of worlds survived the
> Long Night with little harm. 
>      Darmine was the major focus of the llelish Pacification Campaign
> (76 to 120). 

Cool!  This actually sounds like a single interstellar culture made up of
several human "minor races" ("interfertile human subspecies are ....").
This could be fun as another counter-example to the Imperial "major/minor
race" propaganda.  You've got a collection of people originating from a
number of worlds that speak a common language and consider themselves to
have a common culture.

It also sounds like the Darmine region might be one of the areas that got
jump tech as it leaked out of pre-First Imperium Vilani space.  That would
give them a chance to colonize a chunk of Zarushagar before the Vilani
Consolidation Wars sucked them into the Vilani Ziru Sirka; there must be
a millenium or two window of opportunity for that.  Since the Loeskalth
of Gushemege didn't get crushed until the Consolidation Wars, this seems
plausible.

This sounds like an interesting area to develop for a late-period Milieu
Zero campaign.

  -- Steve Bonneville
 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #29
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Thursday, January 22 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 030



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

RE: My spreadsheet program...
Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: the missile debate continues
Re: Survival Still
RE: Missiles
Re: My spreadsheet program...
998 m/sec/sec
Re: Some low-tech ship questions...
Re: 998 m/sec/sec
Re: 998 m/sec/sec
Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re spurious Sunbane Data
Solomani for sale...
Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: Missiles
Re: Missiles
Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography
Re: the missile debate continues
System (Hex) Numbering

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:02:31 -0600
From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com>
Subject: RE: My spreadsheet program...

On Thursday, 22 January 1998 09:38, Andrew Akins [SMTP:igor@ames.net]
wrote:
> Just can't stop tweaking...
> 
> Version 1.9 of my FF&S2 starship design spreadsheet for Excel is now
> freely
> available on my web site. The site address is:
> www.ames.net/igor/trav/trav.htm. Once you get there, simply go to the
> Drydock page.

HoRah!

[snip]
> I'm sorry for any problems people have been having.

Problems?  You do all this work so I can design ships, and you *aplogise*?

O.K. People - this is yet *another* confirming example of the caliber of
people supporting Traveller.  
 
> Andrew Akins
> igor@ames.net

What a guy...

- -Vanya                                                      UPP-8D9B85
Traveller ---------------- Science Fiction Adventure in the Far Future
Meyers-Briggs personality type:ENTJ              | vanya@partyline.net
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with."     | dmoody@bridge.com
 ----------------------- The Future is in Beta -----------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:08:26 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

>If you are not committed to a millennial mission, then I would recommend the
>Bussard Ramjet.  While accelerating to ram speed (3000 km/s), fuel can be
>provided by tankers which could match velocity with the mother ship and dock
>then pump fuel into her tanks.  Once you reach ram speed, fuel is free.
>Half way to your destination, you turn around and begin deceleration, using
>your ram drive on the free fuel available.  Once you reach your destination
>the tankers will do their job again.

Has anybody figured how these RAM jets would actually work? They're a
staple in SF but they generally say something like "a huge magnetic field
works like a gigantic hose to suck in the free hydrogen for thousands of km
around the ship". P Andersson in The boat of a million years (great book
btw) said that the drive dissociated hydrogen molecules with lasers to make
them react to the supercunducting magnetic net. Bussard RAM jets seem
awfully hightech for TL 9 (or even TL 15).


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:08:25 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

>As for slowing down, a couple of ideas spring to mind.
>
>Gravity: although slingshotting is usually used by space probes to
>accelerate, I think it is equally possible to use it to slow down as
>well. With an appropriate course, the ship could sling around the
>target sun, and maybe any orbiting jupiter sized masses, one or
>more times to slow down. Sure, it make take a few years, but after
>2000, who cares.
>Alternatively, do the modern space probe thing. Fling yourself
>past a few other stars on the way to set up your trajectory so
>that you end up in orbit around the target star. Remember, you
>don't have to shed all your velocity, just convert it from linear
>velocity to orbital velocity.

Gravity braking is for slow moving things such as our spaceprobes, its
insignificant for a 1/1000.

>Aerobraking: Using the atmosphere to slow down. Like in the 2010
>film. No, I'm not really serious about this one. Using atmosphere
>to brake from 45% of c would be a bit silly. But it does lead on to:

Same as for slingshotting.

>Chronobraking: Same principle as Aerobraking, but instead dragging
>against the stars Chromosphere, or more likely, its magnetic field.
>Use some of those MW to generate a big magnetic field around
>the ship that will repluse the star's field. Possibly in combination
>with Gravity.

This might work but you need to brake before you're close to the star (and
there aren't any stars inbetween you and the target.

>Light sail: Deploy this early on, they should be light. You don't get
>a lot of thrust/braking, but if you are talking in a millenial timescale
>then it might add up.

If the target has a huge laser shooting photons at you but otherwise not
that useful.

>Ion drive: I don't have the stats. Might this add up over a very long
>period? Use your fusion (or disposable rockets as someone
>suggested) to acceleration, then dissassemble your fusion drive
>as you go and use it as fuel for an ion drive. Hell, you've got
>years to decelerate...

An ion drive cannot possibly beat a fusion drive as an ion drive take its
power from someplace else while the fusion drive keeps its power in the
fuel. There isn't all that much light from stars in deep space to drive the
ion engine.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:08:25 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: the missile debate continues

>Funny, I'd look at it the other way. We know that CT/MT lasers were
>effective at several light seconds. We know that said lasers fit
>into little CT turrets (so they weren't meters accross). So I'd have
>to say that they *had* to be grav-focused, or some other (less
>plausable?) explanation for making a 4m mirror fit in a 1 ton turret.

x-ray lasers more implausible than grav focussing!!?

>Any better ideas for how you get effective several light second
>ranged lasers into a little turret?
>
>-Merrick

X-rays are pretty small compared to visible light, especially hard x-rays
and if that isn't enough we could wiggle atoms with gravitics to produce
gamma lasers with even shorter wavelengths. Shooting x-rays with free
electron lasers today isn't a physics problem but an engineering problem.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:58:58 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Survival Still

Does anyone know how much power the Survival Still-11 (CSC p 30) uses?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:07:48 -0600 (CST)
From: Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com>
Subject: RE: Missiles

This magic flashlight gravity well maker violates conservation of
momentum but otherwise would work just fine.  In order for it to
work as described, it must violate our current understanding of how
the universe works.

Bolie IV

On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, John Toth wrote:
> How about this...
> 
> I hold a flashlight in my hands (We will call this flashlight a 
> GravityWellMaker).
> 
> I push a button to turn the light.  Where the Illuminated area (15m away) 
> is on the floor a gravity well starts.. but I turn the 'light' off really 
> quick.
> 
> The Well doesn't just poof away, but coasts into normal state (1 nano 
> sec?). But I coast forward just a little.
> 
> While this is going on I have 'flashed my light' another 15m away (I moved 
> Forward Remember) the process starts again.
> My movement occurs in the time my 'light' goes off and the decay ends.
> 
> I have to stop now, my head hurts....
> John
> 
> ------------------------------>
> If you are in space and you throw the magnet ahead of you, you will
> start moving backwards at first.  Eventually, you and the magnet will be...
> <snip>
> ...a mass it's hard to say how it would work, but whatever it did
> would violate conservation of momentum and would most likely have
> some interesting ramifications.
> 
> Bolie IV
> ------------------------------>
> 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:09:37 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: My spreadsheet program...

Moody, Danny M. <DMoody@bridge.com> wrote:


>Andrew Akins [SMTP:igor@ames.net] wrote:

>> Just can't stop tweaking...
>> 
>> Version 1.9 of my FF&S2 starship design spreadsheet for Excel is now
>> freely
>> available on my web site. The site address is:
>> www.ames.net/igor/trav/trav.htm. Once you get there, simply go to the
>> Drydock page.
>
>HoRah!

And other words of exclamation!

>
>[snip]
>> I'm sorry for any problems people have been having.
>
>Problems?  You do all this work so I can design ships, and you
>*aplogise*?
>
>O.K. People - this is yet *another* confirming example of the caliber of
>people supporting Traveller.  
> 
>> Andrew Akins
>> igor@ames.net
>
>What a guy...

He's great.  Andy keep up the good work.  And THANKS!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:23:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Larry Hadley <lhadley@peterboro.net>
Subject: 998 m/sec/sec

On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Traveller-digest wrote:

> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:48:54 -0600
> From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
> Subject: Re: Missiles and Reflection

> At 01:57 PM 1/21/98 -0500, Larry Hadley wrote:
> >  A = 100 x 9.98 = 998 m/s^2 (100g)
> >  T = 30 min = 1800 s
> >
> >  V = 1800 x 998 = 1,796,400 m/s (1796.4 km/s)
> 
> Should it not be 998m/sec^2 equaling 996,004 m/s
> then 996, 004 m/s times 1800 secs equales 1,792,807,200 or 1,792,807 Km/sec

   It's 998m/sec _per second_, a rate change as you call it - not an
actual squared quantity. (Man, this takes me back to basic physics and
flight school)

   At 1g, we would gain 9.98 m/sec of velocity for every second we
accelerate, thus after 2 seconds our velocity would be 19.96 m/sec, after
1800 secs (30 min) our velocity would be 17,964 m/sec (17.964 km/sec).
Follow?

   At 100g, we gain 998m/sec for every second we accelerate, after 10
seconds we gain 9980 m/sec. After 100 sec, we gain 99,800 m/sec. After
1000 sec, we gain 998,000m/sec. After 1800sec, we gain 1,796,400 m/sec.


- -- DLH                                 lhadley@peterboro.net

homepage: http://text.peterboro.net/~lhadley/index.html
bio: http://text.peterboro.net/~lhadley/Profile.html

  "Fight to fly, fly to fight, fight to win." - TOPGUN motto.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:21:40 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Some low-tech ship questions...

>Why not just add fuel scoops and an auto processing plant. Surely for
>the length of time your travelling through space your going to pass
>through or near enough to a gas giant to replenish dwindling stocks.
>Simplistic but this is fantasy afterall.
>Jim

This ship is travelling at some 1/1000 c so each LY should take some
thousands of years. There are no nearby gasgiants, planets, bars etc with
matching velocities on this cruise. Traveller might be fantasy but it's not
Space 1999!


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:23:05 PST
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: 998 m/sec/sec

- ----Original Message Follows----
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:23:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Larry Hadley <lhadley@peterboro.net>
Subject: 998 m/sec/sec

   At 100g, we gain 998m/sec for every second we accelerate, after 10
seconds we gain 9980 m/sec. After 100 sec, we gain 99,800 m/sec. After
1000 sec, we gain 998,000m/sec. After 1800sec, we gain 1,796,400 m/sec.

  "Fight to fly, fly to fight, fight to win." - TOPGUN motto.


Boy....  That's FAST!

The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:25:42 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: 998 m/sec/sec

Larry Hadley <lhadley@peterboro.net> wrote:

>
>On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Traveller-digest wrote:
>
>> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:48:54 -0600
>> From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
>> Subject: Re: Missiles and Reflection
>
>> At 01:57 PM 1/21/98 -0500, Larry Hadley wrote:
>> >  A = 100 x 9.98 = 998 m/s^2 (100g)
>> >  T = 30 min = 1800 s
>> >
>> >  V = 1800 x 998 = 1,796,400 m/s (1796.4 km/s)
>>
>> Should it not be 998m/sec^2 equaling 996,004 m/s
>> then 996, 004 m/s times 1800 secs equales 1,792,807,200 or 1,792,807
Km/sec
>
>   It's 998m/sec _per second_, a rate change as you call it - not an
>actual squared quantity. (Man, this takes me back to basic physics and
>flight school)
>
>   At 1g, we would gain 9.98 m/sec of velocity for every second we
>accelerate, thus after 2 seconds our velocity would be 19.96 m/sec, after
>1800 secs (30 min) our velocity would be 17,964 m/sec (17.964 km/sec).
>Follow?
>
>   At 100g, we gain 998m/sec for every second we accelerate, after 10
>seconds we gain 9980 m/sec. After 100 sec, we gain 99,800 m/sec. After
>1000 sec, we gain 998,000m/sec. After 1800sec, we gain 1,796,400 m/sec.

No argument, except that this is Traveller.  In Traveller 1 G = 10 m/s/s.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:26:44 -0600 (CST)
From: Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com>
Subject: Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Anders Backman wrote:
> >Light sail: Deploy this early on, they should be light. You don't get
> >a lot of thrust/braking, but if you are talking in a millenial timescale
> >then it might add up.
> 
> If the target has a huge laser shooting photons at you but otherwise not
> that useful.

This isn't my idea, it's from a book by Robert Forward...

If you can get your home world to aim a huge laser at you you can use
a lightsail to accelerate and then detach part of the light sail (the
outer ring), turn your ship around with the middle part of the light
sail, and then use the outer ring to reflect the laser back at your
ship, thus slowing it down.  You won't get as much thrust slowing down
and you'll eventually lose the outer ring, but it would help.  I
haven't done any numbers on this, though...

Bolie IV


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:44:20 -0000
From: "Del Jones" <dojones@whitestar.u-net.com>
Subject: Re spurious Sunbane Data

Sorry to have posted the same question to both lists (TML and GML).
I know it's a waste of space 'coz a lot of people get both, and as I 
don't want to get the traditional 'flaming', I will continue the discussion
on Galactic (if you guys don't mind!)

Cheers

Del.

PS re the size digits, check the atmos digits too. something IS wrong!

Derrick Jones
St Helens
Lancashire UK
dojones@whitestar.u-net.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:04:58 -0700
From: Sanders <timmon@primenet.com>
Subject: Solomani for sale...

I've a few Classic Traveller odds & ends for sale that I've picked up over
the last few months. All prices include postage in the US & Canada,
elsewhere add an additional $2 for first item.

Supplements:
                Alien Module 6 - Solomani  $12
                  (Excellent condition except for sticker mark on cover.)

Books:
                Tales of the Concordat 2 - Voyage of the Planetslayer  $6
                  (Good condition)
                        
                Not in our Stars  $4
                  (Good condition)

Magazines:
                Different Worlds 2  $3  (No Traveller articles) 
                  (Fair condition)

                Different Worlds 18  $6  "Changes for Trillion Credit Squadron",
                  "Swords on Deck", "Starfreighter Athena".
                  (Good condition)

                Different Worlds 25  $5  "Effects of Mass in Traveller"
                  (Excellent condition)

                Different Worlds 31  $3  (No Traveller articles)
                  (Excellent condition)

                Different Worlds 43  $6  "SF Character Contest Results",
                  "Expanded Combat for Traveller", "Nonhuman Races"
                  (Excellent condition)

Please reply to me directly at timmon@primenet.com

Paul Sanders

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:09:47 -0600
From: "Steven Bonneville" <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

"Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net> wrote:

> When I say these aren't impressive, I don't mean that literally - 9ly is
> quite impressive. But in the Traveller universe, we've got ships that travel
> much farther than that using STL - like the C-Jammer from Trillion Credit
> Squadron.

It's possible to build at tech-9 using FFS1.  I spent some time building
one.  Target speed is something like 0.25 c, which is achievable for a 
very large ship using the astoundingly efficient fusion rockets that are
available at tech-9.  Most of the ship is fuel, and you need to use the
relativistic rocket equation and ship's mass to get reasonable figures
at those extremes of speed and acceleration.  You need to use a *small*
fusion rocket to save mass -- low acceleration, but for a long time.  
FFS1 really isn't designed to be too helpful with STL starship design.

Phil Kitching <PhilK@btinternet.com> suggested:

> Especially since someone will be the first to be revived and is relying on a
> 2000 year old robot to do the job :)

Or in the case of ESA Longrange, a member of the generation ship part of
the crew.  C-Jammer had something like a hundred thousand colonists in 
cold sleep and a thousand crew awake (with room to expand to 10x that by
the end of the mission).  The ship's going to be quite large, since LHyd
is so light and the required mass fraction is so high.

I'll have to drag out my notes and see if anything's postable from them.
As I recall, I got far enough with the design to show it's technically
feasible, but expensive enough that the ESA can't afford much more than
the Longrange ships.

  -- Steve Bonneville

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:12:52 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Missiles

At 06:02 PM 1/21/98 +0000, Tsykoduk wrote:
>Ok.. So I am floating in my pool.. With a long long string attached 
>to a cork. I pull the cork.

You pull on the string, the string pulls on the cork, and the cork gets
pulled through the water.  It tries to go towards you with the same force
that you try to go towards it.  Depending on your friction against the
water, the force on you results in some acceleration, as does the force on
the cork.  For example, if the cork floats, then it can push against the
water, and let you haul yourself around by it, but that depends on there
being some water to push against.

In other words, exactly what happens depends on some real world properties,
like friction, that differ dramatically once you hit space.

>Also, if I do sit in a metallic object, and throw a magnet ahead of 
>it, why will it not move? The energy cost is high (as TP's should 
>be... and are) but after the magnet hits the ground, I move, as does 
>everything else metal in the area.

If you are in a wagon, and you throw a magnet ahead of you, you are pushed
backwards to the same extent the magnet is pushed forward.  If you are on
the ground, though, you can put a brake on the wheels when the magnet is
flying through the air, and then unlock the wheels once the magnet hits the
ground.

The friction of the ground against the magnet might mean that you move and
the magnet does not, but there again, the reason it works is that you have
a stable thing to push against.

In space, if you throw a magnet forward, you will go back, but there is no
friction and no ground to "brake" against.  The magnet will pull you both
back to the place you started, assuming it is strong enough to overcome the
initial throw.  In any event, the only way to move through space is to
throw something in the opposite direction, if you do not want free energy
machines.

For a good explanation of how momentum conservation makes things like this
difficult, consult a good college physics textbook, like Halliday and
Resnick.  They go into incredible detail, and give you the terms needed to
see why people are arguing the way they are.

They also give you the tools needed to se what else results if you break a
law of physics.  For example, if you create "space brakes" or "momentum
sinks" that let you accelerate to a higher velocity than the amount of
energy you spent says you should, then you have all sorts of interesting
results.  An example - assume "jumpspace thruster" that converts matter to
some jumpspace stuff that gives you the maximum delta v for a given amount
of exhaust.  Any such device becomes a near perfect power plant, if you are
not careful.


Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:34:41 PST
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Missiles

Thus Sayeth Scott_Ellsworth:

[snip of lots of good stuff]

<<....an example - assume "jumpspace thruster" that converts matter to 
some jumpspace stuff that gives you the maximum delta v for a given 
amount of exhaust.  Any such device becomes a near perfect power plant, 
if you are not careful.>>

.....And you will become the envy of the entire Imperium and the subject 
of a hostile takeover by Hortelez et Cie!

Given all the megacorps and the imperial navy, think of the R&D efforts 
that must be going on to try to develop something like this.  Reading 
the messages from so many on the list shows a wide spectrum of areas in 
which research is currently being done...  Now bounce that forward a 
millenia or two and let your imagination run wild.  There should be some 
really far out lines of research that are being funded in the Imperium, 
not to mention outside the Imperium...

What types of things do the Vargr spend their time researching?  How 
bout the Zhodani? 

Greg

The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:51:46 -0800
From: "Brian A. Howard" <bruadh@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography

At 01:47 PM 1/21/98 EST, you wrote:
>>>"Happy Landings - Starports in Traveller" by Thomas M Price, in WD 43. I
>>>liked that a lot and have used it on and off ever since, although I'm not
>>>sure all those 5 km runways are necessary.
>>
>>So does anyone have a copy they can scan and send me?
>>
>
>Me too.
>
>
And me as well, please.

Thanks in advance

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:18:17 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: the missile debate continues

 
> x-ray lasers more implausible than grav focussing!!?
 
No, x-ray/gamma ray lasers are cool by me. At least you can build
those in FFS (1&2) :-)

> X-rays are pretty small compared to visible light, especially hard x-rays
> and if that isn't enough we could wiggle atoms with gravitics to produce
> gamma lasers with even shorter wavelengths. Shooting x-rays with free
> electron lasers today isn't a physics problem but an engineering problem.

True enough. 

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:54:22 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: System (Hex) Numbering

I sent this (long)one through on Jan 14. I haven't seen it yet and think
it may have gone astray in the power outage. Here goes again.


I have been using a revised hex numbering system for my campaign which
may be of interest.

It is based on the ‘unknown space navigation table’ as shown in
Traveller Alien Module 4, Zhodani on page 48 and I know it was presented
in at least one other Traveller  publications in the past.

It groups a 7 across hex of hexes into 6 equal triangular like areas to
be used by the referee to plot star positions as the pc’s journey
through unknown space.

Taking the concept a little further, I reasoned that if the center hex
was labeled      0,0,0        I should be able to go as far as I wanted
in any direction and know how far it was from that point of origin. I
labeled the a first number set as the sextant, a second number set as
the band (distance away from 0,0,0), and the third number as the
deviation to starboard within the sextant.
To demonstrate:
Start point is 0,0,0 meaning the center.
Band one is composed of 1,1,0 meaning sector 1 (Coreward), band 1, 0
deviation,  2,1,0 meaning sector 2 (Coreward Trailing), band 1, 0
deviation,  3,1,0 meaning sector 3 (Rimward, Trailing), band 1, 0
deviation,  4,1,0 meaning sector 4 (Rimward), etc., etc., 5,1,0 meaning
sector 5 (Rimward Spinward), etc., etc., and 6,1,0 meaning sector 6
Coreward Spinward), etc., etc.
Band two is made up of  1,2,0 and 1,2,1/2,2,0 and 2,2,1/3,2,0 and 3,2,1 
4,2,0 and 4,2,1/5,2,0 and 5,2,1/6,2,0 and 6,2,1
Band three is 1,3,0 - 1,3,1 and 1,3,2/ 2,3,0 - 2,3,1 and 2,3,2 etc. etc.

Now lets say we use Capital (2118) Core (Old Atlas) as the center of our
universe. It becomes 0,0,0. 
Nimluin (2209) Core becomes 1,9,1, Ispumer (2615) Core becomes 2,5,0,
Gurishi (3022) Core becomes 3,9,0, Skeen (2226) Core becomes 3,9,8 etc.

If a navigator was at Nimluin, Gurishi or Skeen, he would know that he
had travelled a total distance of 9 parsecs away from Core (5 in the
case of Ispumer) and had made a 1, 0 or 8 respectively parsec starboard
deviation from the norm.

Continuing out a long way, Terra (1827) Sol becomes 4,131,3, Regina
(1910) Spinward Marches becomes 5,130,128. Terra is 131 parsecs from
Capital at a 3 parsec starboard deviation ( (3/130x 60)+(3x60) or
181.385 degrees).  Regina is 130 parsecs from capital at a 128 parsec
starboard deviation (128/130x 60)+(4x60) or 299.076 degrees).
Notice that the deviation number can only total to 1 less than the band
number, the (((sextant number -1) times 60) plus the ((deviation number
divided by band number ) times 60)) will give the degree angle direction
from center, and  the deviation parsec is always at an angle of  the
((band number times 60) + 120) degrees.
I realize the numbering system is a little more cumbersome than our
present system but it appears to relay more usable information without
remembering the location of 560 sub-sectors within 35 sectors, or more
if you go outside *known* space. 

Using the s,bbb,ddd number combination we could expand our borders out
to 997,000+ parsecs in any of 6 directions. It could also be applied to
those referees using 3D space adding a fourth number set indicating
plus/minus for up/down direction.

Any thoughts?

Jim

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #30
*********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Thursday, January 22 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 031



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: My spreadsheet...
Hull Paint
Re: conservation of momentum
Re: Missiles
Re: Survival Still
Re: Lifeboats
Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy
Makimir class Grav Raft
RE: Critics / Playtesters Wanted
Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy
TTL
Re: Lifeboats
Re: What is an MFD
Re: Some low-tech ship questions...
Rob Prior - is your mail okay
Re: [TTL] Hull Paint
Re: Lifeboats
Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: conservation of momentum
Re: Some low-tech ship questions...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:15:44 -0600
From: "Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: Re: My spreadsheet...

Danny Moody wrote:

>HoRah!
>[snip]
>> I'm sorry for any problems people have been having.
>Problems?  You do all this work so I can design ships, and you
>*aplogise*?
>O.K. People - this is yet *another* confirming example of the caliber of
>people supporting Traveller.

Richard Flores wrote:

>And other words of exclamation!
>[snip]
>He's great.  Andy keep up the good work.  And THANKS!

Your welcome. Glad to do it. Traveller is my favorite RPG (and has been
since '80) so its my pleasure to put my skills (I'm a programmer by
profession) to work. Plenty of people on this list have helped me out in one
way or another, so I'm returning the favor.

For the record, future works of mine will include a Java based Traveller
program suite (word generation finished, planet/system generation well
underway), and more FF&S2 worksheets (for weapons, vehicles, etc...) for
those of us who can't get the fine programs available on the Macs to work on
our Windows machines.

Feel free to keep heaping praise upon me, of course :) - but also please let
me know what you don't like, what you want changed, and what new stuff you'd
like to see. If I have the knowledge and skill (And time) to do it, I'd be
happy to.

Thanks for your support guys - it makes it all worthwhile to do it.

Andrew Akins

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:22:45 -0600
From: "Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: Hull Paint

An individual has pointed out an interesting quirk in the FF&S2 sequence
that I'd like to correct in my spreadsheet, but I'd like to come to some
sort of consensus as to what the solution should be.

According to the rules, you can receive a credit on your ship's hull by
painting it a single color rather than the chameleon coat - and you get even
a bigger credit if you put no paint on it at all. The problem is, with real
cheap hulls (like a small freighter), this credit can be larger than the
cost of the hull itself! That is, your hull is free!

This, of course, is wrong. What would be a better way of handling this? I
think that a percentage based system would be better - single color hulls
are 90% the cost of regular, plain hulls are 80%, etc... What do you think
of that? And what should the percentages be (I offered the above only as
examples...)

Thanks...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:33:21 -0500
From: hal@buffnet.net
Subject: Re: conservation of momentum

Hello Folks,
  There has been some discussion about the "analogy" of throwing a magnet
ahead to represent the idea of a gravity well being generated in front of a
ship and pulling a ship forward...

  I would like to propose an alternate "analogy" to represent the concept
of the gravity well...

  Suppose the generation of the gravity well were the equivalent of a
"grappling hook" thrown by the ship and attached to a rope?  The hook is
thrown ahead (so to speak) with the tines of the hook grabbing the fabric
of space.  Yes, there is some "efficiency loss with the forward motion of
the hook being thrown forward, but the energy used to "winch" the ship
forward is greater than the energy used to project the hook forward for a
net gain.  Consequently - in order to "violate" the known physics, the
method must create a new physics to work off of (the idea of hooking into
the fabric of space and then winching).

  To continue the analogy: suppose you have a wagon on a slope.  Until
recently (ie before the invention of the grappling hook and winch) one
needed a horse to pull that wagon up the slope.  You need to feed the horse
hay in order to get it to move a set distance.  Now, you need to carry hay
on that wagon to feed to the horse to get it to go up the slope.  However,
some dude invents a gun, a grapple, and a hand cranked motor.  He mounts
the gun on the wagon, fires the grapple ahead, and then - winches the wagon
up.  The natives then say "hey!  That works!  It violates the principle of
using horsepower, but it works!"

  Thing is, until the guy invented the grapple and rope - the natives
didn't have any "theory" that could circumvent the necessity of using a horse.

  It is possible that the reactionless aspect of the Grav Thrusters in
Traveller have managed to become the equal of the grappling hook/rope/winch
concept in normal physics.  It only works because...

  The other end of the "rope" is attached to the wagon!

  Granted, this "analogy" is inelegant, but by definition, science is the
process of learning what is and is not capable.  Until someone proved it
otherwise - it was accepted that the universe revolves around the earth.
Until proven otherwise, it was accepted that you could not break the sound
barrier.  Until Calculus was developed, certain math could not be done to
explain how things work.  To tie this in with reality and gaming systems -
recently, a whole new branch of math had to be developed in order to win a
prize proving a math formula works.  It was so complex that people are
certain it's not the method used by some 1700's or 1800's amateur
mathematician.  I don't think that science is done with finding new ways to
look at the universe.
  In all fairness, I too don't believe in the reactionless concept being
viable - but again, that is based upon what I was taught.  I was also
taught however, that before something can be proved or disproved, it must
be concieved of... and reactionless drives have been concieved of <grin>.

  Hope this "analogy" helps for some...

    Hal

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:39:16 -0500
From: hal@buffnet.net
Subject: Re: Missiles

>Ok.. That I understand :)
>
>(Sorry.. I am a computer geek, not a physics geek..Sometimes it takes 
>a while to pound a thought into my stubborn head)..
>
>Cya
>
>> The problem is an incomplete analysis.

Actually, there is one further thing that was left out...

There is the energy required to throw the magnet ahead...
but there is also the energy used to pull the rope in.  If the rope can
anchor on some point due to some property at the end of the rope, then the
energy used to pull inthe rope is added to net effect.  Thus the equation
would look like this:

work = enery used to throw device forward - equal and opposite energy to
throw the device forward (net effect zero as they cancel out) plus the
energy used to pull the object forward...

  The problem as I see it on a logic basis is getting the <censored> magnet
to hold with enough strength to allow the internal energy to work on the
external environment...

            Hal

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:49:18 -0600
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Re: Survival Still

At 10:52 AM 1/22/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Does anyone know how much the Survival Still-11 (CSC p 30) uses?

???uses in what way etc. 

Do you mean in volume mass etc?

Or how much water it will produce?
- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:38:28 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Lifeboats

At 09:04 PM 1/20/98 -0500, you wrote:

>You said it, man!  I've been away for a while and am surprised by the
>willingness of so many to leap into the ice coffin at the first sign of
danger.

"Attention, crewmembers of the INV Pop-up.  The Captain has ordered Abandon
Ship.  You have the following options:

1.  Follow the directions to the nearest life-raft station, place yourself
in the Emergency Low Berth, and wait for pick-up. 
 (PROBABILITY OF SURVIVAL: HIGH.)

2.  Remain with ship.  The Power-Plant is going critical in 5.8 standard
minutes.  Probability of explosion: 78%, and rising.  Life Support is
inoperable, Fire Control is inoperable, Manuver is inoperable.
  (PROBABILITY OF SURVIVAL: NONE)

Thank you for your time, you have 3.21 standard minutes to launch.

Have a Nice Day!"

- --
*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
)      Douglas E. Berry              dberry@hooked.net     (
(          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/index.html        )
)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(
( A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any   )
) invention in human history--with the possible exceptions (
( of handguns and tequila.                                 )
)         Mitch Ratcliffe, Technology Review, April 1992   (
*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:30:35 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

At 02:47 AM 1/21/98 -0900, you wrote:

>Yes it does.  Were you not yet on the list when we discussed this last
>spring ?  You see the whole Traveller universe is a struggle between the
>Ancients and the Hivers [who equate to Cthulhu mythos figures] to get to
>and control the center of the universe District 268 of the Spinward
>Marches [If I were still pretending to be a Darmine I would note that  
>2 + 6 + 8 = 16 which is highly significant.]  The Masons are just one of
>their lacky groups.  This truth was revealed by the enlightened Craig
>Barry and I was merely a spectator to his greatness :)

*sigh*  Forever in my brother's shadow.  IIRC, I was the one who first
proposed the Templars, and Craig took the ball, painted it lime green and
ran with it.  We had a lot of fun with various bits of the illuminated
history of Traveller.  (BTW:  It's "Berry")

As a quick recap, Sometime around 850AD, a Hiver expedition was exploring
an abandoned Ancient base in Arabia's Empty Quarter.  A lone human wandered
by, and was captured.  Unknown to the Hivers, this man was a powerful
latent psi.  He was exposed to a sort of telepathic log book, which
downloaded itself into his brain.  The man went on to write the
Necronomicon and teach his skills to a few others.  Since the database had
given him pictures of horrible monsters (Grandfather and his Droyne
servants, as well as a handle on the vastness of space, he was quite insane
and paranoid.

The Hivers blew the site and left.  (Arguments about if this was a
deliberate manipulation or an accident continue)  One of the items missed
was a bronze head.. a teaching tool for the humanoids used by the Ancients.
 It was found by the Knights Templar, and returned to Europe, where it woke
up.

The Bronze Head had one over-riding directive: return home for repair.
Alas, the Head had lost all but the most indication on where home was.
When the Templars were destroyed in 1315, Jaque deMolay (a powerful
telepath and teleport) took the head into hiding.

The Templars continued in secret, always with the twin goals of defending
humanity from the return of the Elder Ones, and bringing about space flight.

When the Vilani were contacted, the Templars were convinced that these were
the Elder Ones, and subtly arranged the First Interstellar War.  They also
brought about the fall of the Rule of Man.  (There were Templars on both
sides of the infamous money issue in -1776)

Templar operations were greatly enhanced by the discover of "The Net."  The
Net is a telepathic phenomena, a method for instant communication over
interstellar distances.  Alas, only one in a thousand can even reach the
net, and those who do either die or become quite crazed.

In Milieu:0, the Templars are behind Cleon's rise to the throne, and are
encouraging expansion to Spinward.

In the Classic Era, they are carefully working behind the scenes to allow
them access to Five Sister's Subsector and it's treasure, the homeworld of
the Ancients!

- --

  Douglas E. Berry                              dberry@hooked.net
             http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/index.html
********************************************************************
Equation for finding the value of "chimp"                     .-"-.
                                                             /.-.-.\_
chimp=(a+x) + t6 (w+zm) - 4                                ( ( o o ) )
a is equal to the sum of the numbers in the current time     |/ " \|
(in military time) e.g. if the time is 17:22 then the value  \'---'/
of a=12, x is current temperature, t is # of turtles within  /`"""`\
one square mile (if any), w is size of wombat involved (in inches)
z is a reddish color, m is the ratio between your height relative
to the chimp in question.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:20:27 -0600
From: "Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: Makimir class Grav Raft

Just soliciting an opinion about this design:

Makimir class grav raft (FF&S2)
Designed by Udararuukin, LIC

Statistics
  Tons: 2std (SL Medium Box Hypersonic)
  Volume: 28m3
  Mass (Loaded/Clean): 20t/20t
  Dimensions: 4.8m x 2.4m x2.4m
  Size: 6
  Crew: 1
  Passengers: 3
  Cargo: 6.52m3 (approx .5std)
  Cost: 173,000Cr
  Maintenance Cost: 2
  Tech Level: 12

Electronics:
  Controls: Dynamic, high automation. 1xFlt Computer (CM:1.0 CP:1.0).
  Communications: 1xRadio (500km, 0MW). 1xLaser(5,000km, 0MW).
  Sensors: 1xAEMS ( 7, 0.02MW).

Performance:
  0.7/0.7 Contra Grav
  324kph/324kph Atmosphere (/Crus: 243kph/243kph)
  6.24 Battery (/Endurance:24hr)
  0 Life Support (/Type:Basic)
  1 G-Comp
  0 [20] Armor, 0 Structure

The Makimir grav raft is intended as a small family or corporate grav raft
for errands and simple travelling. The design is unremarkable but reliable.
One interesting feature of the design is the use of batteries as a power
source instead of newer technologies such as Fusion+. Since this is intended
to be a conservative design, batteries were choosen over the new Fusion+
technology. Also, this design may be safely exported to non-Imperium markets
without fear of Imperial sanctions.

The design seats four adults in two rows of two. The craft is equiped with
simple electronics that allow the computer to fly the raft itself in the
presence of a computerized trafic system, or detailed flight plans. The
craft is completely pressurized and can reach orbit if neccessary.

The two rear passenger seat can be removed, increasing the cargo area to
nearly 14 cubic meters. The rear section roof can be removed as well,
allowing for irregularly sized cargos to be placed within (although the
craft is no longer presurized.

While there are no models of the Makimir designed for military use (there
are no weapon mounting points on the craft), there have been rumors of some
recon units using modified Makimirs for stealth covert unit insertion
missions (as the Makimir with its sensors off is a zero-emission craft).

=================================================
My question is:
  Is the sensitivity 7 AEMS too powerful? Not powerful enough? I envision
this as a simple collision avoidance and navigational radar...

Thanks

Andrew Akins

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:25:22 -0000
From: Alex Ferrie <daishan@malkier.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Critics / Playtesters Wanted

Why not just post it, then you'll have the entire ravening horde as your 
playtest <g>

Alex Ferrie

On 21 January 1998 05:13, Sean Bayan Schoonmaker [SMTP:schoon@aimnet.com] 
wrote:
> Alrighty then...
>
> I've hashed out updated Mayday (M4) with a small group to get them into a
> decent playtestable set of rules.
>
> Now I'm ready to expose them to the ravening hordes.
>
> If you're interested in playtesting / critiquing / giving me grief just for
> fun, then send me an email, and in turn I'll send you back a text file of
> the whole shebang.
>
> They use standard FFS2 ship designs, but you can get away with other design
> systems with a little translation.
>
>
> Thanx,
> Schoon

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:40:41 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

Peter Newman wrote:
[full snip of more Darmine details]

Am I the only person thinking Mr. Newman _desperately_ needs to be drafted
into writing the canonical Darmine sourcebook for Traveller?  Or perhaps a
series of four shorter articles/modules?

Whoops, make that the Darmine _underwear_ sourcebook.


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:35:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: TTL

How does one get on the TTL?  Is membership restricted?


Thanks,
Clark

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:38:53 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Lifeboats

>>You said it, man!  I've been away for a while and am surprised by the
>>willingness of so many to leap into the ice coffin at the first sign of
>danger.
>
>"Attention, crewmembers of the INV Pop-up.  The Captain has ordered Abandon
>Ship.  You have the following options:
>
>1.  Follow the directions to the nearest life-raft station, place yourself
>in the Emergency Low Berth, and wait for pick-up.
> (PROBABILITY OF SURVIVAL: HIGH.)
>
>2.  Remain with ship.  The Power-Plant is going critical in 5.8 standard
>minutes.  Probability of explosion: 78%, and rising.  Life Support is
>inoperable, Fire Control is inoperable, Manuver is inoperable.
>  (PROBABILITY OF SURVIVAL: NONE)
>
>Thank you for your time, you have 3.21 standard minutes to launch.
>
>Have a Nice Day!"

They just don't get it do they.  They never will.  Oh well...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:01:11 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: What is an MFD

Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU> wrote:

>To control multiple missiles in flight...that's what I thought the main
>advantage of an MFD was!

And/or to control multiple gun turrets with *less* crew than individual
turrets need?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:50:14 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Some low-tech ship questions...

im Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca> wrote:

>Why not just add fuel scoops and an auto processing plant. Surely for
>the length of time your travelling through space your going to pass
>through or near enough to a gas giant to replenish dwindling stocks.

You want to enter a gas giant atmosphere going *how* fast?

>Simplistic but this is fantasy afterall.

I thought it was *science* fiction? ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:37:33 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Rob Prior - is your mail okay

Apologies for using the TML like this but I can't get through any other way
at the moment.

- ----

Rob,

Your email is giving delayed messages again like it did last time it went
funny.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:48:39 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: [TTL] Hull Paint

At 02:22 PM 1/22/98 -0600, Andrew Akins wrote:

>This, of course, is wrong. What would be a better way of handling this? I
>think that a percentage based system would be better - single color hulls
>are 90% the cost of regular, plain hulls are 80%, etc... What do you think
>of that? And what should the percentages be (I offered the above only as
>examples...)

   Excellent suggestions for handling the problem.  I do have one question
though, why in the hell would anyone allow a starship out of the
construction dock without any paint?  The benefits of painting a hull seem
so obvious to me that I can't even imagine why you wouldn't.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 22:48 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Lifeboats

Moin Douglas E. Berry,

> 1.  Follow the directions to the nearest life-raft station, place yourself
> in the Emergency Low Berth, and wait for pick-up. 
>  (PROBABILITY OF SURVIVAL: HIGH.)

	even more extreme when the refree roles his dice hidden ;-)

	I've managed to bring parts of my players from 1080 to 1122
	to 1168. Surely I'd to cheat some of the dice to let them survive.

	But now (1203) I dont know how to bring them to M0, the low
	berth does'nt work in this situation ;-( Perhaps I should use
	the wave ;-)

	- you'd missjumped deep into zhodani area
	- your jump drive is rotten, bare metal what the HPG was once
	- from InSystem (about 200 K AU away) you hear a radio message
	  that the system is evacuated because of the wave arives in
	  1d6 days
	- you should step into the berth - this saved your live 2 times
	  you know ;-)

	My group always have a large number of berth, not for using them
	for thier own, but to store "missbehaving" passengers. Its their
	prefereed method for dealing with them - store them in a berth
	and forget about the accident until you can give them to the next
	starport officials.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 23:14 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

Moin Steven Bonneville,

> It's possible to build at tech-9 using FFS1.  I spent some time building
> one.  Target speed is something like 0.25 c, which is achievable for a 
> very large ship using the astoundingly efficient fusion rockets that are
> available at tech-9. 

	tell me the material that can sustain 1/4C ? Thats 3.28% for
	space, time and mass changed by the lorenz konstant. Ok even
	if TL:9+ shows up a material, what about the passengers.

> Or in the case of ESA Longrange, a member of the generation ship part of
> the crew.  C-Jammer had something like a hundred thousand colonists in 
> cold sleep and a thousand crew awake (with room to expand to 10x that by
> the end of the mission).

	nice to read that my home town (Bremen) is planing to build it
	have to ask people at Erno (ESAs main supplier) here what they
	think about when to finish the C-Jammer - just kidding ;-)

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:25:47 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: conservation of momentum

At 03:33 PM 1/22/98 -0500, Hal wrote:
>  Granted, this "analogy" is inelegant, but by definition, science is the
>process of learning what is and is not capable.

....

On the other hand, every such discovery had to match previous information.

>Until someone proved it
>otherwise - it was accepted that the universe revolves around the earth.

In point of fact, the problem at the time was that as observations got
better, the fiddling needed got more extreme.  Epicycles were not a
terrible approach, as long as they were trying to model something circular
with variation, but modelling ellipses became unreasonable.

>Until proven otherwise, it was accepted that you could not break the sound
>barrier.

Those in the field knew that it was possible, as they had supersonic
bullets.  What they doubted was whether it could be done by a vehicle.

>  Until Calculus was developed, certain math could not be done to
>explain how things work.  To tie this in with reality and gaming systems -
>recently, a whole new branch of math had to be developed in order to win a
>prize proving a math formula works.  It was so complex that people are
>certain it's not the method used by some 1700's or 1800's amateur
>mathematician.  I don't think that science is done with finding new ways to
>look at the universe.

Of course not, but new ways have to explain old data.  For example, a space
time hook leads to some interesting problems in relativity, as it creates a
preferred frame.  There may be such, but any such preferred frame had best
not invalidate the current GR experiments, or you do get things like
conservation of momentum and energy going out the window.  The last time
this happened, we got radioactive decay, so it is certainly possible

Imagine the faces of the nineteenth century gamers when being told that
there is no permanence, and that the fundamental building blocks of matter
decay.  Now imagine the DM when a player proudly announces that he is going
to build a huge "Decay bomb" that will kill people inside buildings!

That we can do this now is not the point.  That old DM has to deal with the
fact that his 19th century warfare concept has just been thrashed.
Likewise, a DM now who accepts a reactionless drive has to deal with the
free energy machine he or she created.  The truth might be that these do
exist and that they are free energy machines, but this is hard to explain,
and makes the world hard to understand.

The better you do at explaining it, and making the world comprehensible,
the better your game.  Often, not breaking the laws of physics is a good
way to help in the process, but sometimes, you just have to.

FWIW, I am not sure whether I like the space winch, the jump space rocket,
or the inertialess drive better as a handwave.  I may go back to fusion
rockets and antigrav.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:23:13 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Some low-tech ship questions...

On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Jim Cooper wrote:
 
> Why not just add fuel scoops and an auto processing plant. Surely for
> the length of time your travelling through space your going to pass
> through or near enough to a gas giant to replenish dwindling stocks. 
> Simplistic but this is fantasy afterall.

Uhhh...not many gas giants in interstellar space. not much of _anything_
in interstellar space.

One convenient way of doing it would be to stick, essentially, a gigantic
iceberg on one end of your hull. This serves two purposes:

1)It makes a handy radioactivity and micrometeor shield.
2)It's a great source of fuel for your deceleration burn.

I think the only way to do this successfully is to use a bussard ramscoop
coupled to either a fusion or ion drive. With an ion drive you get to use
excess hull (if you use a large enough asteroid hull) as fuel, as well as
that big berg on your front end. Ion drives are really simple, and
reliable, though they're low gee drives. What you do is use boosters to
get to ramscoop speed in your home system, then just decelerate for a
_long_ time. 

Poul Anderson wrote a book about a sublight starship, but the name escapes
me right now.

Mostly it dealt with a ship that got to a very high percentage of C, so
most of the plot revolved around time dilation effects, and it wasn't a
'generation' ship in that sense of the word.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #31
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Traveller-digest      Friday, January 23 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 032



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy
Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy
Re: [TTL] Hull Paint
Re: Rob Prior - is your mail okay
Re: Hull Paint
Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy
Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography
Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy
Quoting, and the Vargr
Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy
Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy
Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy
Re: Lifeboats
RE: Hull Paint
Re: Some low-tech ship questions...
Re: My spreadsheet...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 01:11:47 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

At 11:30 1998-01-22 -0800, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>As a quick recap, Sometime around 850AD, a Hiver expedition was exploring
>an abandoned Ancient base in Arabia's Empty Quarter.  A lone human wandered
>by, and was captured.  Unknown to the Hivers, this man was a powerful
>latent psi.  He was exposed to a sort of telepathic log book, which
>downloaded itself into his brain.  The man went on to write the
>Necronomicon and teach his skills to a few others.  Since the database had
>given him pictures of horrible monsters (Grandfather and his Droyne
>servants, as well as a handle on the vastness of space, he was quite insane
>and paranoid.

Connecting to a previous discussion, perhaps the man just got himself a
good look at jumpspace ? That certainly would explain the demons ...  :-)


Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm  (Linköping, Sweden)
E-mail: jenry023@student.liu.se
UIN: 3844745   Get ICQ at http://www.mirabilis.com
Homepage: http://spacejens.ml.org
- ---------------------------------------------
"And I froze there, crouching in the small of plastique from the bolts,
because that was when the Fear found me, really found me, for the first time"

Hinterlands, William Gibson
- ---------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:11:45 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Anders Backman wrote:

> >If you are not committed to a millennial mission, then I would recommend the
> >Bussard Ramjet.  While accelerating to ram speed (3000 km/s), fuel can be
> >provided by tankers which could match velocity with the mother ship and dock
> >then pump fuel into her tanks.  Once you reach ram speed, fuel is free.
> >Half way to your destination, you turn around and begin deceleration, using
> >your ram drive on the free fuel available.  Once you reach your destination
> >the tankers will do their job again.
> 
> Has anybody figured how these RAM jets would actually work? They're a
> staple in SF but they generally say something like "a huge magnetic field
> works like a gigantic hose to suck in the free hydrogen for thousands of km
> around the ship". P Andersson in The boat of a million years (great book
> btw) said that the drive dissociated hydrogen molecules with lasers to make
> them react to the supercunducting magnetic net. Bussard RAM jets seem
> awfully hightech for TL 9 (or even TL 15).

well, your description is pretty much as good as any, but I disagree with
your assertion that they're high tech. Creating and shaping a magnetic
field is pretty easy with superconductors, which are TL-9 technology.
Using lasers or masers to ionize gases are TL-7 technology...a neon sign
is a heck of a lot closer to a laser than anyone ever realized.

So you create a huge ionizing field out in front of your ship. Once stray
atoms are ionized, again, it's childs play, relatively speaking, to
manipulate the ionized stream..._that_ is the same principle as a mass
spectrometer...invented at TL-6.

The trick seems to be is there enough material out there in interstellar
space to be able to do this?  

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:26:04 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Michael Koehne wrote:

> Moin Steven Bonneville,
> 
> > It's possible to build at tech-9 using FFS1.  I spent some time building
> > one.  Target speed is something like 0.25 c, which is achievable for a 
> > very large ship using the astoundingly efficient fusion rockets that are
> > available at tech-9. 
> 
> 	tell me the material that can sustain 1/4C ? Thats 3.28% for
> 	space, time and mass changed by the lorenz konstant. Ok even
> 	if TL:9+ shows up a material, what about the passengers.

I'm not sure I understand your question...these are low acceleration
ships, even though they do reach a significant fraction of C, the entire
ship is moving in the same reference frame so it'll seem like the rest of
the universe has shrunk by 3% not them grown by 3%. All the ship has to
stand up to is the piddling little less than one gee drive produced by the
little engines used in these designs. 

Stress isn't placed upon anything by velocity, only acceleration.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:13:08 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

Kenji Schwarz <kenji@accessone.com> wrote:


>Peter Newman wrote:
>[full snip of more Darmine details]
>
>Am I the only person thinking Mr. Newman _desperately_ needs to be drafted
>into writing the canonical Darmine sourcebook for Traveller?  Or perhaps a
>series of four shorter articles/modules?
>
>Whoops, make that the Darmine _underwear_ sourcebook.

I've always been opposed to the draft, however, in this case...

Let's ask him first.  Then draft him if he won't do it voluntarily.  :-)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:13:14 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: [TTL] Hull Paint

Harold D. Hale <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu> wrote:

>At 02:22 PM 1/22/98 -0600, Andrew Akins wrote:
>
>>This, of course, is wrong. What would be a better way of handling this? I
>>think that a percentage based system would be better - single color hulls
>>are 90% the cost of regular, plain hulls are 80%, etc... What do you think
>>of that? And what should the percentages be (I offered the above only as
>>examples...)
>
>   Excellent suggestions for handling the problem.  I do have one question
>though, why in the hell would anyone allow a starship out of the
>construction dock without any paint?  The benefits of painting a hull seem
>so obvious to me that I can't even imagine why you wouldn't.

I can think of a couple.  Besides cost (1), you might want that nice shiny
hull to be visible (2).  Some boats and ships should be highly visible (like
life-boats).

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:22:21 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Rob Prior - is your mail okay

>Apologies for using the TML like this but I can't get through any other way
>at the moment.
>
>----
>
>Rob,
>
>Your email is giving delayed messages again like it did last time it went
>funny.

I actually got am email bounced.  Rob! Let us know you are Ok!!

Pete

Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"Shiela-X where are you"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:46:05 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Hull Paint

Andrew Akins wrote:
> 
> An individual has pointed out an interesting quirk in the FF&S2 sequence
> that I'd like to correct in my spreadsheet, but I'd like to come to some
> sort of consensus as to what the solution should be.
> 
> According to the rules, you can receive a credit on your ship's hull by
> painting it a single color rather than the chameleon coat - and you get even
> a bigger credit if you put no paint on it at all. The problem is, with real
> cheap hulls (like a small freighter), this credit can be larger than the
> cost of the hull itself! That is, your hull is free!
> 
> This, of course, is wrong. What would be a better way of handling this? I
> think that a percentage based system would be better - single color hulls
> are 90% the cost of regular, plain hulls are 80%, etc... What do you think
> of that? And what should the percentages be (I offered the above only as
> examples...)
> 
> Thanks...
I think that would be the correct way to go. As to the %'s - if
chameleon is the base then the other %'s seem too low. Why not use the
hull base cost with no paint, +.5% for all black up to +1% or more for
chameleon. Let the experts determine the cost factor.
Jim Cooper

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:06:46 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

Kenji Schwarz wrote:
> 
> Peter Newman wrote:
> [full snip of more Darmine details]
> 
> Am I the only person thinking Mr. Newman _desperately_ needs to be drafted
> into writing the canonical Darmine sourcebook for Traveller?  Or perhaps a
> series of four shorter articles/modules?
> 
> Whoops, make that the Darmine _underwear_ sourcebook.
> 
Nope. But you are sooooo much better at persuasion than I am.

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:28:26 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography

ASlack@synetics.co.uk wrote:

> 3. Games Workshop own the copyright, as it was published in White Dwarf
> about 20 years ago and copyright has not been reassigned to my knowledge.
> In email discussion with me, GW have said it would be OK for me to post my
> articles on the Web so long as they retain the copyright, and each such
> article is clearly marked (c) Games Workshop 19xx to protect that
> copyright. I did not discuss other people's articles, nor posting to a
> mailing list. GW are doing us a favour by taking the above position, and I
> don't want to abuse this trust by extending beyond what was discussed. Nor
> do I want to open such a discussion on behalf of another author, especially
> without his permission.
>
> I think Bryan Borich intended to talk to GW about the IISS Ship Files and
> other items, and he may have more up to date info on a wider picture - what
> say, Bryan? Anyone?

  Asking for permission is definitely the right way to go.  But it may not be
absolutely necessary.  Uh . . .  I was going to make some long and complicated
copyright arguments about why they wouldn't win a case if they sued you, but
you're right in the end.  Keep 'em happy.  Ask nicely.  And let your forehead
touch the ground as you bow.  (Thats for humor and not a arcastic comment.  I
'd really love to enlighten you all on copyright law in the US, and even the
EU, but I'm tired and it would basically be pointless anyway.)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:40:58 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

Peter Newman wrote:

> Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu> wrote
>
> I'll avoid asking if you are related to the magazine of the same name :)

I only recently learned of the existence and nature of said magazine, thanks
to Howard Stern.  Since I don't travel in such circles, it was never apparent
to me.  After learning of it, I figured what the hell, might improve my
reputation around the law school (perhaps with the lesbians who aren't half
bad looking, if no one else).  Thankfully, damn few at school know what my
email address is (it used to be MrRugbyman), and it will only be good for
another 3 months or so and the hassles involved in changing it aren't woth
the bother.  I have 4 other email accounts on different ISPs anyway, so no
harm, no foul.

> > Numerology, Concourse, stuff, yada, yada, yada.
> > Boils down to one thing:
> >
> > Masons!
> >
> > In space.
> >
> > I just knew it.
>
> Yes it does.  Were you not yet on the list when we discussed this last
> spring ?  You see the whole Traveller universe is a struggle between the
> Ancients and the Hivers [who equate to Cthulhu mythos figures] to get to
> and control the center of the universe District 268 of the Spinward
> Marches [If I were still pretending to be a Darmine I would note that
> 2 + 6 + 8 = 16 which is highly significant.]  The Masons are just one of
> their lacky groups.  This truth was revealed by the enlightened Craig
> Barry and I was merely a spectator to his greatness :)

I wasn't on the list but for last summer.  I did get a strange email after I
said "measure twice, cut once."  While its much more common than saying that
something is "on the square and level," turns out it the mail was simply from
a guy who thought I was an electrical engineer because other e.e.s he knew
used the phrase.  And foolish me, I thought measure twice, cut once was as
old as carpentry.

> Well Carlos Alos-Ferrer  a Mathematician and former TMLer posted this
> Jump Drive Theory last spring that seems to meet your specifications
>
> < <
>          An introduction to Yet Another Jumspace Theory
>          ==============================================
>
>       The structure of the set of transfinite numbers reflects the
> physical reality. There is a bijection between the set of transfinite
> numbers and the set of physical spaces. Aleph-0 is associated to real
> space, while Aleph-n (for n>=1) corresponds to Jumpspace-n. Basically,
> the  corresponding cardinal measures the possible "meta-quantum
> situations" that  a particle can be in, in the corresponding space. A
> "meta-quantum situation"  is a complete specification of energy level,
> probability distribution over  location, and all other necessary
> physical characteristics.
>          The lanthanum grid has the effect of exponentially increasing
> the variance of meta-quantum situations in the particles of a body. In
> the limit, the body cannot be contained in its space and so "jumps" into
> the appropriate one.
>          The set of transfinite numbers is discrete only if the
> continuum hypothesis is accepted. The discovery of jumpspace requires a
> deep understanding of the transfinite number theory. Those races who do
> not incorporate as an assumption the continuum hypothesis have failed to
> discover the jump-drive.
>
> Carlos Alos-Ferrer > >

Aw, Jeez.  Sounds like Cabbalah and/or Hewbrew Sorcery to me.

> > What would R.A.W. say?
>
> I'm sorry but you are not cleared for that information at this time
> Citizen Comrade Stevie D.

<Insert R.A.W. catch phrase that I can't spell or remember correctly
here>Since my memory fails me,

FNORD!


Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:05:41 +0000
From: Andy Lilly <a.s.lilly@nortel.co.uk>
Subject: Quoting, and the Vargr

Hi,

QUOTING

<Rant Mode On>

This subject seems to come up occasionally, and I hate to sound like a sad
killjoy or something, but could some of you

THINK
        JUST
                ONCE

before posting back the entire message from someone you're replying to? 99%
of the time you really don't need to post more than 1-2 lines of the message
- - anyone who's following the list actively will know what you're talking
about, and anyone catching up over a range of TMLs will read them
consecutively so there's absolutely no need to repeat entire messages.

<Rant Mode Off>

VARGR AND THEIR CLOTHING

The new Vargr stuff (when it eventually hits print) tries to emphasise the
range of ways that Vargr communicate, both consciously and unconsciously
(e.g. body language). Although it was pointed out that just wearing bright
clothes wouldn't mark you out in society, the Aliens book does emphasise the
manner in which insignia, jewelry and other adornments are extremely
important in providing a clear indication of one's social status, etc. A
high Charisma Vargr doesn't rely upon you being sufficiently wealthy to
*recognise* that he's wearing a 'designer label' (as humans do). Rather, a
Vargr 'designer label' might have the designer's name, sign, whatever,
embroidered on every available surface. If the Vargr were particularly
favoured, the signs would include something to the effect of "I made this
for (name of owner). (signature of Vargr designer)", etc. Don't get me wrong
- - Vargr visual communications can also be remarkably subtle.

Andy

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 01:12:20 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz) wrote
> Subject: Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy
> 
> Peter Newman wrote:
> [full snip of more Darmine details]
> 
> Am I the only person thinking Mr. Newman _desperately_ needs to be drafted
> into writing the canonical Darmine sourcebook for Traveller?

I'm game for it but don't have a website & consider it unlikely to get
paper publication (although I'd love that).  While the Darmine are about
an order of magnitude less "contrary to traditional family values" than
the Sayat are, I think this is still about an order of magnitude too
high for publication most places.  It is also true that, to a certain
extent, I am just winging it.  For instance I did not know that the
prophet Telor happened to be female until 2-3 days ago.  Any suggestions
anyone ?

Actually I am planning on doing them up as a race for GURPS once Gurps
Traveller is released, or possibly sooner.  I think that the Darmine
have a number of what GURPS calls Advantages and Disadvantages that
regular Traveller, of any form, does not model well.

Here is the first draft of the brief version of the Darmine for GURPS

- -1 ST (-10)
+1 DX (+10)
+1 HT (+10)

Acute Hearing +1 (+2)
Attractive Appearance (+5)
Chauvanistic [not towards other human races] (-1)
Code of Honor - Darmine (too complicated to explain here (-5)
Compulsive Carousing
Congenial [not towards non humans] (-1)
Cool (+1)
Dependancy - a special diet high in heavy metals, common, monthly (-5)
[In a First Empire Campaign this would be uncommon, monthly (-10)]
Fit (+5)
Immunity to Poison - Only Metallic poisons (-50%) (+8)
Light Hangover (+2)
Major Delusion -  Numerology is destiny, everthing that happens in fours
is significant (-10)
Social Stigma Minority Group - Darmine (-10)
[In the First Empire Darmine were Outsiders (-15 points)
Unusual Biochemistry (-5)

This version of the Darmine does not include skills, but Carousing and
Theology are common

Total Cost +4 points :)

Common Advantages

Alchohol Tolerance
Alertness
Beautiful/Handsome Appearance
[with the +0% special effect Bishnonen Look (GURPS Mecha pg 33)]
Blesssed [with GM permission]
Charisma
Clerical Investment
Combat Reflexes
Destiny (good)
Greed
Imperturbable
Increased Wealth, Comfortable or Better
Luck
Oracle [with GM permission]
Pious
Sensative
Strong Will

Common Disadvantages

Bloddlust
Compulsive Spending (usually only at the -5 point level)
Curious
Destiny (bad)
Disciplines of Faith
Distractable
Extra Sleep
Gluttony
Intolerance [Non Humans]
Lecherous
[Note that many Darmine are not strictly heterosexual and may be tempted
by persons of either gender.  Darmine are not interested in sex with
nonhumans.]
Nosy
Odious Personal Habbit - constantly telling the others in the party that
things which happen in fours are significant until the other players
wish to wring your neck...
Overconfidence
Sense of Duty
Skinny
Sterile

Rare Disadvantages

Bully
Cowardice
Fat
Low Pain Threshold
Overweight
Sadism
Shyness
Vows of Monasticism, Chasity any of the "unfun" vows

>  Or perhaps a
> series of four shorter articles/modules?

 :)

> Whoops, make that the Darmine _underwear_ sourcebook.

I could not possible do the Darmine _underwear_ sourcebook because then
I would have to take time away from my busy store & office work merely
to look at gorgeous people modeling underwear;  naturally I would need
to be well paid for this hardship....

[Any TMLers, but preferably those with naturally blue or green hair &
attractive looks, may contact me via private email to arrange for an
appointment.]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 01:13:57 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

"Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net> wrote

> At 02:47 AM 1/21/98 -0900, you wrote:
> 
> >Yes it does.  Were you not yet on the list when we discussed this last
> >spring ?  You see the whole Traveller universe is a struggle between the
> >Ancients and the Hivers.
> >This truth was revealed by the enlightened Craig Berry and I was > >merely a spectator to his greatness :)

> *sigh*  Forever in my brother's shadow.  IIRC, I was the one who first
> proposed the Templars

Doug I was only trying to save you from a Templar hit squad by not
alerting people to your behavior, sorry if I did not give you your due.

> and Craig took the ball, painted it lime green and
> ran with it.  We had a lot of fun with various bits of the illuminated
> history of Traveller.  (BTW:  It's "Berry")

Sorry I am a little bit lysdexic sometimes.

> The Templars continued in secret, always with the twin goals of defending
> humanity from the return of the Elder Ones, and bringing about space flight.
> In the Classic Era, they are carefully working behind the scenes to allow
> them access to Five Sister's Subsector and it's treasure, the homeworld of
> the Ancients!

How does this aspect of the Templar Traveller fit in with Marc Millers
comment/sacred revelation to the list that the Ancient homeworld was
actually in the Regina Subsector ?

Is there something even better in the Five Sisters Subsector, like the
mystical center of the universe perhaps, or was Marc just publishing
disinformation to save us from information we are not meant to know....
[Maybe this is why T4.1 is running late, because Marc has to fit in
writing in between saving the universe.]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 03:26:42 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

At 01:11 AM 1/23/98 +0100, you wrote:
>At 11:30 1998-01-22 -0800, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>>As a quick recap, Sometime around 850AD, a Hiver expedition was exploring
>>an abandoned Ancient base in Arabia's Empty Quarter.  A lone human wandered
>>by, and was captured.  Unknown to the Hivers, this man was a powerful
>>latent psi.  He was exposed to a sort of telepathic log book, which
>>downloaded itself into his brain.  The man went on to write the
>>Necronomicon and teach his skills to a few others.  Since the database had
>>given him pictures of horrible monsters (Grandfather and his Droyne
>>servants, as well as a handle on the vastness of space, he was quite insane
>>and paranoid.
>
>Connecting to a previous discussion, perhaps the man just got himself a
>good look at jumpspace ? That certainly would explain the demons ...  :-)

Nope, he got a good psychic impression of one of Grandfather's kiddies,
named something like Cthulthu...
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:53:53 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Re: Lifeboats

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/23/98 12:53 PM

<<
     I've managed to bring parts of my players from 1080 to 1122
     to 1168. Surely I'd to cheat some of the dice to let them survive.
     But now (1203) I dont know how to bring them to M0, the low
     berth does'nt work in this situation ;-( Perhaps I should use
     the wave ;-)
>>

I have a time-travelling patron who is occasionally looking for a few good
sophonts to help make sure that history goes the way it needs to go for her
culture to flourish. And a time-travelling villain who would really rather
another culture flourished. This gives me all kinds of leeway for dropping
guest players and scenarios into the campaign, and lets me move from milieu
to milieu whenever I feel like it. When I get bored with the TNE milieu I
plan to have them go back in time and face the moral quandary of whether to
release Virus or not...

<<
     My group always have a large number of berth, not for using them
     for thier own, but to store "missbehaving" passengers. Its their
     prefereed method for dealing with them - store them in a berth
     and forget about the accident until you can give them to the next
     starport officials.
>>

I played in a campaign once where no-one could figure out how the ship's
medic/steward was feeding us so cheaply. Until we noticed the low berths
were getting more and more empty through the weeks in jump...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 07:59:04 -0500
From: "Svenson, Gregory (FL51)" <gsvenson@space.honeywell.com>
Subject: RE: Hull Paint

>Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:22:45 -0600
>From: "Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net>
>Subject: Hull Paint
>
>An individual has pointed out an interesting quirk in the FF&S2
sequence
>that I'd like to correct in my spreadsheet, but I'd like to come to
some
>sort of consensus as to what the solution should be.
>
>According to the rules, you can receive a credit on your ship's hull by
>painting it a single color rather than the chameleon coat - and you get
even
>a bigger credit if you put no paint on it at all. The problem is, with
real
>cheap hulls (like a small freighter), this credit can be larger than
the
>cost of the hull itself! That is, your hull is free!
>
I noticed this when I was designing small craft like the light fighter
and the lifeboat I posted. I actually got so much credit for not
painting the lifeboat that the official cost was a -0.204MCr for it. The
credit not only exceeded the cost of the hull, it exceeded the cost of
the ship! I ended up just ignoring the credit for not painting it. BTW,
I violated the minimum size rule for thrusters for the lifeboat. I have
been working on a redesign of the lifeboat and will post the result when
I finish. I also have a version that does not use emergency low berths,
for those who would prefer not to risk using a low berth.

>This, of course, is wrong. What would be a better way of handling this?
I
>think that a percentage based system would be better - single color
hulls
>are 90% the cost of regular, plain hulls are 80%, etc... What do you
think
>of that? And what should the percentages be (I offered the above only
as
>examples...)

I think that this is an excellent idea!
>
>Thanks...

Greg Svenson
gsvenson@space.honeywell.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:57:40 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Re: Some low-tech ship questions...

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/23/98 12:57 PM

<<
Poul Anderson wrote a book about a sublight starship, but the name escapes
me right now.
Mostly it dealt with a ship that got to a very high percentage of C, so
most of the plot revolved around time dilation effects, and it wasn't a
'generation' ship in that sense of the word.
>>

That would be "Tau Zero", I think. Ship misses its deceleration burn and
just keeps on going, past the big bang into the next universe...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:13:00 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: My spreadsheet...

"Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net> wrote:

>For the record, future works of mine will include a Java based Traveller
>program suite (word generation finished, planet/system generation well
>underway), and more FF&S2 worksheets (for weapons, vehicles, etc...) for
>those of us who can't get the fine programs available on the Macs to work on
>our Windows machines.

I believe Rob Prior is planning to port Infini-V, Metator and FFS2 to the
PC when he gets some time and if IG ever sort out billing him for products
he hasn't had.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #32
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Friday, January 23 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 033



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy
Re: conservation of momentum
Bussard Ramjets
Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: Makimir class Grav Raft
low-tech ship design
Re: conservation of momentum
misc missile comments
Lifeboats
Re: Quoting, and the Vargr
Re: Artificial gravity
Re: All change at IG?
Re: Bussard Ramjets
Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: Artificial gravity
Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography
Leonidae sector
Re: conservation of momentum

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:09:00 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>


>kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz) wrote
>>
>> Peter Newman wrote:
>> [full snip of more Darmine details]
>>
>> Am I the only person thinking Mr. Newman _desperately_ needs to be
drafted
>> into writing the canonical Darmine sourcebook for Traveller?
>
>I'm game for it but don't have a website & consider it unlikely to get
>paper publication (although I'd love that).  While the Darmine are about
<snip>

As soon as I get my new ISP on-line, I'm going to put up a web-site.  I
could put your stuff on it if you wanted me to.  So just keep on winging it.
You write it here as you go along.  You'll get feed back and modify it as
you see fit, then when you are satisfied, I'll put it up.

OBTW, I would welcome any helpful suggestions from anyone who knows anything
about web publishing.  I'm probably going to go mostly with black on plain
white.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:48:55 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: conservation of momentum

>Hello Folks,
>  There has been some discussion about the "analogy" of throwing a magnet
>ahead to represent the idea of a gravity well being generated in front of a
>ship and pulling a ship forward...
>
>  I would like to propose an alternate "analogy" to represent the concept
>of the gravity well...

<lots of wagons, garppling hooks, fabric of space etc snipped>

Potential fields have NOTHING like a fabric of space that you can hook into
etc. Writers and science shows use the terms like "the curvature of space",
"fabric of space" etc like they were physical entities but they are not -
they are real world analogies to fields but most of the real world
counterparts abilities don't map back to the force field.

If you want a graspable analogy consider space being a rubber sheet and
that our 3D space is the 2D surface of it. If you put massive object on it
it will deform as the balls will sink in a bit, the amount dpendent on the
objects mass. The rubber mat is unbreakable by any means except by putting
extremely dense objects upon it (this part I do not agree with myself but
most physicist seem to believe that these singularities are for real). The
rubber mat is also lubricated by an infinitely good lubricant so you'll get
NO friction. Play with that for your ingenious devices but remember: You
cannot grab the rubber mat, glue to it or anything.If you come up with a
gizmo that does grab onto it etc then you aren't talking about gravity
anymore but handwave generated ether vortices produced by contemplating how
many pins can fit on the head of an angel or something.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 14:37:20 +0000
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: Bussard Ramjets

On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Anders Backman wrote:
> Has anybody figured how these RAM jets would actually work?
Someone once described them as "a great idea for a brake". You
would want to look closely at the transfer of momentumn between
the interstellar hydrogen (at rest) and your ship. A huge hydrogen
dragnet like that is going to produce drag.
  Work out the fuel consumption rate. Multiply that by, say 8, since
your magnetic field will not be 100% efficient (ie only 12.5% of the
hydrogen it deflects will actually get to the drive) and factor that in
as a dampening effect against the thrust of your drive. The faster
you go, the larger the effect.
  Maybe it is insignificant. I don't know. But I suggest you run the
numbers.
     Cheers,
          Jo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:59:53 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

>well, your description is pretty much as good as any, but I disagree with
>your assertion that they're high tech. Creating and shaping a magnetic
>field is pretty easy with superconductors, which are TL-9 technology.
>Using lasers or masers to ionize gases are TL-7 technology...a neon sign
>is a heck of a lot closer to a laser than anyone ever realized.

Unless you got magnetic monopoles (and Boy is that old SF staple) it is
VERY hard to get high field strengths at thousands of kilometers, even with
superconductors. Whenever there is a high strength magnetic field it is
between things not outside things. I say bussard RAM jets are high tech and
I think that allowing them at TL 9 would spell big trouble for the
Traveller universe. If yoy can get VERY close to c speed then ramjets are
actually much better stardrives than J-drives from the crews perspective.
Traveller J-drives are unuseable to get to say the Andromeda galaxy but
bussards can do it in a lifetime (for the crew). Also note that a bussard
ramjet is the ULTIMATE kkm weapon if you have time to spare.

Read Poul Andersons "Tau zero" for a scientifically unfeasible but still
interesting story about a VERY long journey with such a ship.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 07:34:23 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Makimir class Grav Raft

At 03:20 PM 1/22/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Just soliciting an opinion about this design:
>
>Makimir class grav raft (FF&S2)
>Designed by Udararuukin, LIC

Very nice work.

>My question is:
>  Is the sensitivity 7 AEMS too powerful? Not powerful enough? I envision
>this as a simple collision avoidance and navigational radar...

That could be seen as overkill, as it is a 20,000 watt emitter..  Fly over
a schoolyard and sterilyze everyone.  For a simple traffic radar, hand wave
a 5km range radar into the craft.
- --
*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
)      Douglas E. Berry              dberry@hooked.net     (
(          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/index.html        )
)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(
( A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any   )
) invention in human history--with the possible exceptions (
( of handguns and tequila.                                 )
)         Mitch Ratcliffe, Technology Review, April 1992   (
*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:21:24 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: low-tech ship design

As others have said, settle for *extremely* low acceleration- 0.01 G is 
fine. Consider using staging - have an initial acceleration starge
with the fuel and first fusion rocket that drops off before you
start deccelerating (keep it for all the rest of the trip and face it
forward to absorb dust impacts.) 

Make the ship big, so a fusion power plant works, and/or ignore the big
FFS2 fusion power plant minimum sizes. 

Remember to carry a couple of my B937 landers so you can get to the
planetary surface.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:24:42 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: conservation of momentum

Anders Backman <anders.backman@aniware.se> wrote:


>If you want a graspable analogy consider space being a rubber sheet and
>that our 3D space is the 2D surface of it. If you put massive object on it
>it will deform as the balls will sink in a bit, the amount dpendent on the
>objects mass. The rubber mat is unbreakable by any means except by putting
>extremely dense objects upon it (this part I do not agree with myself but
>most physicist seem to believe that these singularities are for real). The
>rubber mat is also lubricated by an infinitely good lubricant so you'll get
>NO friction. Play with that for your ingenious devices but remember: You
>cannot grab the rubber mat, glue to it or anything.If you come up with a
>gizmo that does grab onto it etc then you aren't talking about gravity
>anymore but handwave generated ether vortices produced by contemplating how
>many pins can fit on the head of an angel or something.

I like this one best of all.  I don't need to grab anything or throw any
thing or use ropes or wagons or metal objects or magnets or anything.  I'll
set on your proposed rubber sheet and reach out my hand and press down on
it.  Since it is perfectly frictionless, I'll slide into the dimple I've
made.  Then I pull my hand out from under me and press down again.  I'll
keep pressing down until I get to where I'm going.  (In the audience, hands
clap as I wave the one that brought me here.)

I like this.  This is fun.  Can we do another?  ;-)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:13:22 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: misc missile comments

kraehe@bakunin.north.de writes

>But as I'm a Brilliant Lances player, even normal missiles are
>imposible to spot.

True in BL, but I was sort of assuming one was using my sensor
rules (which give more reasonable results) and/or some kind of 
minor BL fix (like adding -1 DM for every 50% closer than short range.)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:42:56 -0500
From: "Svenson, Gregory (FL51)" <gsvenson@space.honeywell.com>
Subject: Lifeboats

The following lifeboat designs were created using version 1.9 of Andrew
Akin's FF&S2 spreadsheet program. Thank you very much for an excellent
program, Andrew.

The second lifeboat uses seats rather than an emergency low berth. It
could be used as a small passenger shuttle, as well as a lifeboat. Both
are designed to be the same size and shape, use the same engines and
other components. So, without further ado:


Svenson Small Craft, LIC a fully owned subsidiary of Karelia Industries,
Ltd, of Sylea, announces the release of the Tristam class lifeboats. The
Tristam class lifeboats come in two types. The LB12/L comes with an
emergency low berth for up to four beings and is designed for ships with
the potential to be lost in an area where it may be a long time before
they are found. The LB12/S comes with seating for a pilot and up to six
passengers and is designed for ships that will be operating in heavily
used space lanes where the risk of being lost for extended periods is
limited.

LB12/C, Tristam ELB class Lifeboat (FF&S v2)				
Designed by Greg Svenson, Svenson Small Craft, LIC

Statistics				
Tons: 2.75std ( SL Short Cylinder Simple )	Crew: 0/0	Cargo:
0std (0/0)
Volume: 39m3		Passengers High/Med: 0/0	Cost: 0.319 MCr
Mass (L/C): 24t/24t		Passengers Low: 4	Maintenance
Points: 3
Dimensions: 3.6m x 3.6m x 3.6m		Troops/Science: 0/0	Tech
Level: 12
Size: 6		Frozen Watch: 0(0 group)	
				
Electronics				
Controls: Dynamic, High automation. 1xFltComp (CM:0.6 CP:1.67). 1xComp
(CM:0.6
          CP:1.67). No bridge.			
Communications: 1xRadio (50,000km, 0.02MW). 1xLaser (50,000km, 0.00MW).	
Sensors:  1xAEMS (7, 0.02MW).		
Survey/Science: 			
ECM: 			
Signatures: Vis:-0.5, IR:-1.0 (-1.0 at 1MW, -1.0 at 0MW), Act:0.0,
Neu:-1, Grav:-2			
				
Weaponry			Performance	
			0	Jump
			0.8/0.8	Maneuver (/HEPlaR:1MW,7.3hr)
	 		1.0/1.1	Contra-grav (0MW) 
	 	320kph/320kph	Atmosphere (/Crus:240kph/240kph)
	 		1	Power (/Fus+:1MW,96.0, /PCell:0MW)
	 		0.0	Fuel
	 	0/0/0/0/1	Accommodations 
		 	0	Life Sup. (/Ty:Ba,Nm)
	 		0	G-Comp 
		 	0	ESA
	 		0	Sandcasters
	 		0	Damper Turrets
	 		0	Damper Screen 
	 		0	Meson Screen 
	 		0	Force Field
	 		0	Gravtics
	 		0 [20]	Armor
	 		0	Structure

Features
1xSeat, Adequate for optional pilot
1xShip's locker (0.00std ea.)

This Lifeboat is designed with one emergency low berth with a capacity
for four
passengers or crew members. This lifeboat is intended to be launched
from a
jettison bay. There is a single seat for an optional pilot; however, a
pilot is
not necessary as the lifeboat's computer is a specialized computer that
will
pilot the boat and operate the radio to send a distress call.

It is designed to get away from the mother ship quickly with HEPlaR
engines.
The HEPlaR engines allow use in situations where there is no gravity,
such as
deep space. If the lifeboat is launched near a planet, a pilot could
land it on
the planet's surface using the Contra-grav lifters. In such a situation
the
emergency low berth could be left deactivated and the passengers simple
ride
to the surface in the cryogenic berths.

The fusion+ reactor is designed to be deactivated automatically, unless
a pilot
is present. The emergency low berth, radio, computers and life support
then
operate indefinitely using the solar cells.
- --------------------------------

LB12/L, Tristam S class Lifeboat (FF&S v2)				
Designed by Greg Svenson, Svenson Small Craft, LIC

Statistics				
Tons: 2.75std ( SL Short Cylinder Simple )	Crew: 1/1	Cargo:
0std (0/0)
Volume: 39m3		Passengers High/Med: 0/6	Cost: 0.241 MCr
Mass (L/C): 14t/14t		Passengers Low: 0	Maintenance
Points: 1
Dimensions: 3.6m x 3.6m x 3.6m		Troops/Science: 0/0	Tech
Level: 12
Size: 6		Frozen Watch: 0(0 group)	

Electronics				
Controls: Dynamic, High automation. 1xFltComp (CM:0.6 CP:1.67). 1xComp
(CM:0.6
          CP:1.67). No bridge.			
Communications: 1xRadio (50,000km, 0.02MW). 1xLaser (50,000km, 0.00MW).	
Sensors: 1xAEMS (8, 0.03MW)
Survey/Science: 	
ECM: 			
Signatures: Vis:-0.5, IR:-1.0 (-1.0 at 1MW, -1.0 at 0MW), Act:0.0,
Neu:-1, Grav:-2			
				
Weaponry		Performance	
			0	Jump
			1.4/1.5	Maneuver (/HEPlaR:1MW,7.3hr)
	 		1.0/1.0	Contra-grav (0MW) 
	 	320kph/320kph	Atmosphere (/Crus:240kph/240kph)
	 		1	Power (/Fus+:1MW,168.0hr)
	 		0.1	Fuel
	 	0/0/0/0/0	Accommodations 
		 	56	Life Sup. (/Ty:Ex,Nm)
	 		1	G-Comp 
		 	0	ESA
	 		0	Sandcasters
	 		0	Damper Turrets
	 		0	Damper Screen 
	 		0	Meson Screen 
	 		0	Force Field
	 		0	Gravtics
	 		0 [20]	Armor
	 		0	Structure

Features
1xWorkstation, Pilot
6xSeat, Adequate
1xShip's locker (0.00std ea.)

Crew:
1xMnvr

This Lifeboat is designed for those who do not trust emergency low
berths.
It has a pilots workstation and seating for 6 passengers. There is a
food for
eight weeks and a fresher. The extended life support provides potable
water
through recycling after the initial supply runs out. When the lifeboat
is
activated it automatically requests a map of the solar system from the
ships
database.

This lifeboat is intended to be launched from a ship's jettison bay.
However,
it can also be used as an orbital shuttle. With seating for six
passengers
and contra-grav lifters to get from the planetary surface to orbit, at
2.75
dtons, it makes a very small, economical, passenger shuttle.

It is designed to get away from the mother ship quickly with the HEPlaR
engines. The pilot has over seven hours of fuel for the HEPlaR engines.
When
the HEPlaR engines are not in use or not needed the fusion+ reactor can
operate at reduced output, allowing it to run for 5 weeks in this mode.
If
both the HEPlaR engine and contra-grav lifters are shutdown the Tristam
S
can operate for 25 weeks with just the life support, computers, sensors
and
radio operating. Of course, the food would run out long before that. If
the
lifeboat is launched near a planet, the pilot can land it on the
planet's
surface using the contra-grav lifters.

The fully functional computer is provided with a full selection of games
and
vid packages to entertain the passengers and pilot while they are
waiting to
be rescued or for the food and water to run out.

Greg Svenson
gsvenson@space.honeywell.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:17:37 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Quoting, and the Vargr

Andy Lilly wrote:

[the temptation to repost this entire article was almost overwhelming...  :)]

> VARGR AND THEIR CLOTHING
> important in providing a clear indication of one's social status, etc. A
> high Charisma Vargr doesn't rely upon you being sufficiently wealthy to
> *recognise* that he's wearing a 'designer label' (as humans do). Rather, a
> Vargr 'designer label' might have the designer's name, sign, whatever,
> embroidered on every available surface. If the Vargr were particularly
> favoured, the signs would include something to the effect of "I made this
> for (name of owner). (signature of Vargr designer)", etc. Don't get me wrong
> - Vargr visual communications can also be remarkably subtle.

I would tend to say that the visual clues on the designer may be _very_ subtle -
the designer's stamp may be olfactory (smell) instead.  It would also tend to
reinforce the 'status' of a particular Vargr that he/she replaces high-cost
clothing before their personal scent overcomes that of the designer.

douglas

- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:07:40 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Artificial gravity

>FF&S2 says, "Artificial gravity inertial compensators create an artificial
>gravity field directed between the deck plates of a ship to provide a
>constant gravity field.  The generators are also tied into the ship's
>computer, which varies the field strength to counteract the effects of a
>ship's acceleration, up to a maximum level."
>
>Does any one have any problems with this?

I think you must, from your question, but other than a few simplifications
I don't;

"tied into the ships computer" I would interpret as "tied into the ship's
systems".  It would use the ship' sensors and helm data to anticipate
affects of inertia and thrust on the internal gravity, then use its own
dedicated computer to do the calculations.

It's an interesting change that the artificial grav field is "directed
between the deck plates" rather than upward from the lower plate which is,
I think, the older explanation.  This new explanation makes it easier to
argue against using the same technology to generate "repulsors" or "tractor
beams" since it is implied that there need to be two plates or nodes
involved.

I've always advocated the position that, unless you are in free fall, you
shouldn't get near a Jupiter sized (~3G surface gravity) planet with a 1G
accel ship (2G of art. grav).

An interesting implication is that if your luxury liner has a plexiglass
ceiling in the main dining salon the gravity comp is probably not efficient
in that area, leading to a bit of 'light footedness'.  Perhaps a strange
looking ceiling fixture every few meters is placed in that area as well.

Pete


Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"Groats!?!  I *hate* Groats!"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:57:03 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: All change at IG?

aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk writes:
>Apparently, IG will soon be under new management (hopefully including a 
>new webmaster). Anybody know any details?

I phoned up (again) last week to see what's become of my October shipment
of Naval Architects Manual, and the chap I talked to (James) said that the
chap in Wisconsin doing the shipping (Tim Brown) was the one making the
mistakes, and that they were reorganizing so that this wouldn't happen
again.  

When I pointed out that I had heard that story twice before (it seems to
be the standard story I get whenever they bill me for something they don't
ship) he started talking about how it was all Tim's fault and how Anne
Flagella was overworked and how I should see the thousands of order that
were shipped successfully and... (at which point I told him that I was
paying for the call and hung up).

Oh yes, and he promised to ship my missing books immediately.  Guess what
hasn't arrived yet?

Needless to say, I am not impressed.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:12:09 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Bussard Ramjets

Jo Grant wrote:


>On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Anders Backman wrote:
>> Has anybody figured how these RAM jets would actually work?
>Someone once described them as "a great idea for a brake". You
>would want to look closely at the transfer of momentumn between
>the interstellar hydrogen (at rest) and your ship. A huge hydrogen
>dragnet like that is going to produce drag.
>  Work out the fuel consumption rate. Multiply that by, say 8, since
>your magnetic field will not be 100% efficient (ie only 12.5% of the
>hydrogen it deflects will actually get to the drive) and factor that in
>as a dampening effect against the thrust of your drive. The faster
>you go, the larger the effect.
>  Maybe it is insignificant. I don't know. But I suggest you run the
>numbers.

Before I run any numbers, where did you get yours?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:18:29 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

Anders Backman <anders.backman@aniware.se> wrote:


>Unless you got magnetic monopoles (and Boy is that old SF staple) it is
>VERY hard to get high field strengths at thousands of kilometers, even with
>superconductors. Whenever there is a high strength magnetic field it is
>between things not outside things. I say bussard RAM jets are high tech and
>I think that allowing them at TL 9 would spell big trouble for the
>Traveller universe. If yoy can get VERY close to c speed then ramjets are
>actually much better stardrives than J-drives from the crews perspective.
>Traveller J-drives are unuseable to get to say the Andromeda galaxy but
>bussards can do it in a lifetime (for the crew). Also note that a bussard
>ramjet is the ULTIMATE kkm weapon if you have time to spare.


Why not combine them?  Not the engine, just the scoop.  You travel through
space until you get the necessary fuel to jump, then jump.  Travel, jump,
travel, jump, etc.

Speaking of monopoles, did anyone ever here of The Evening Star.  It was a
supplement for CT.  I don't remember who published it.  But the object of
the same name as the title was an abandoned monopole mine that had been
converted into a luxury resort.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:46:11 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Artificial gravity

Peter H. Brenton <pbrenton@mit.edu>


>>FF&S2 says, "Artificial gravity inertial compensators create an artificial
>>gravity field directed between the deck plates of a ship to provide a
>>constant gravity field.  The generators are also tied into the ship's
>>computer, which varies the field strength to counteract the effects of a
>>ship's acceleration, up to a maximum level."
>>
>>Does any one have any problems with this?
>
>I think you must, from your question, but other than a few simplifications
>I don't.

Actually I don't either.

>"tied into the ships computer" I would interpret as "tied into the ship's
>systems".  It would use the ship' sensors and helm data to anticipate
>affects of inertia and thrust on the internal gravity, then use its own
>dedicated computer to do the calculations.

That's resonable.

>It's an interesting change that the artificial grav field is "directed
>between the deck plates" rather than upward from the lower plate which is,
>I think, the older explanation.  This new explanation makes it easier to
>argue against using the same technology to generate "repulsors" or "tractor
>beams" since it is implied that there need to be two plates or nodes
>involved.

It also helps to explain how you can compensate for a thrust from the rear
that is parallel to the deck plates.  Which is how most of the ship designs
I've seen seem to be arranged.  This would be particularly true of airframe
craft.
        __________________
   =>|__________________\
   =>|___________________\
   =>|___________________/
   =>|__________________/

>I've always advocated the position that, unless you are in free fall, you
>shouldn't get near a Jupiter sized (~3G surface gravity) planet with a 1G
>accel ship (2G of art. grav).

Sounds like a one way trip to me.  Unless you have CG lifters, your going
down.

>An interesting implication is that if your luxury liner has a plexiglass
>ceiling in the main dining salon the gravity comp is probably not efficient
>in that area, leading to a bit of 'light footedness'.  Perhaps a strange
>looking ceiling fixture every few meters is placed in that area as well.

I would use diamondpane, but I get the idea.  Perhaps like dispersed
antennas that work as a single unit, there would be some overlapping and the
effect would be unnoticeable unless the "window" was huge.  I mean we are
talking about a field effect here, right?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 20:39 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography

In-Reply-To: <34C80E59.50212985@bu.edu>

Stevie,

> > I think Bryan Borich intended to talk to GW about the IISS Ship Files and
> > other items, and he may have more up to date info on a wider picture - what
> > say, Bryan? Anyone?
>  
>   Asking for permission is definitely the right way to go.  But it may not be
> absolutely necessary.  Uh . . .  I was going to make some long and complicated
> copyright arguments about why they wouldn't win a case if they sued you, but
> you're right in the end.  Keep 'em happy.  Ask nicely.  And let your forehead
> touch the ground as you bow.  (Thats for humor and not a arcastic comment.  I
> 'd really love to enlighten you all on copyright law in the US, and even the
> EU, but I'm tired and it would basically be pointless anyway.)

Of course, there are those who consider GW to be scum-sucking lowlifes, the 
enemy of all roleplayers, and who would welcome any blow, however small, against 
the chaos-death-spiky ones...
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:45:30 -0600
From: "Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: Leonidae sector

I'm getting ready (hopefully) to post my data on the Leonidae sector to my
web site. This data has been generated by me, and is not taken from any
canon sources - which begs the question: Are there any canon sources of data
for Leonidae? And if so, where can I find the info?

Thanks.

Andrew Akins
igor@ames.net
Home Page: www.ames.net/igor/
Traveller Page: www.ames.net/igor/trav/trav.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 14:43:20 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: conservation of momentum

Richard A. Flores wrote:

> Anders Backman <anders.backman@aniware.se> wrote:
>
> >If you want a graspable analogy consider space being a rubber sheet and
> >that our 3D space is the 2D surface of it. If you put massive object on it
> >it will deform as the balls will sink in a bit, the amount dpendent on the
>

<snip>

> I like this one best of all.  I don't need to grab anything or throw any
> thing or use ropes or wagons or metal objects or magnets or anything.  I'll
> set on your proposed rubber sheet and reach out my hand and press down on
> it.  Since it is perfectly frictionless, I'll slide into the dimple I've
> made.  Then I pull my hand out from under me and press down again.  I'll
> keep pressing down until I get to where I'm going.  (In the audience, hands
> clap as I wave the one that brought me here.)

Now, as I visualize it, this is what happens. You're sitting on the rubber
sheet. You reach out and press down. Newton's Third Law says that while you're
pressing down your hand, the rest of your body is moving up. It's like this:

        Force of your hand pressing down = (-1) Force of your body moving up

Except that the forces are in opposite directions. From this we do this:

        (mass of hand) (acceleration down) = (-1) (mass of body) (acceleration
up)

Now, check my assumptions. The mass of your hand is so very much smaller than
the mass of your body, therefore the depression you're sitting in is quite a bit
deeper than the one you're making with your hand.

This means that a small depression won't make you slide toward it because you're
too deep in the large depression, and its attractive force is so large. In order
for you to slide toward the small depression, you must press down REALLY hard
with your hand, in order to create an acceleration large enough.

I'll just make up some numbers for illustrative purposes.

Suppose your body mass is 100kg and your hand is 1kg (totally unrealistic, but
they're nice numbers to work with). Now suppose that the attractive acceleration
in the large depression is 10m/(s^2). This means that the force your body
experiences in the large hole is = (100kg)(10m/(s^2)), or 1000 Newtons.

Your hand must press down with more than that amount of force to lift your body
out of the hole. This means that it must accelerate at more than (1000N)/(1kg),
or 1000m/(s^2), in order for you to be lifted.

That's pretty good acceleration!

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #33
*********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Saturday, January 24 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 034



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Lifeboats
Re: conservation of momentum
Trav List:  pictures from the first interstellar war
Return of Liaison Skill?
Low Passage now safe?
Re: Low Passage now safe?
Re: Re:Starship With Plans
Apology (yes, I am an idiot)
Re: Quoting, and the Vargr
Re: Quoting, and the Vargr
Acceleration and maximum velocity
Re: Return of Liaison Skill?
Low tech ship design
Re: Rob Prior - is your mail okay
Infini-V on PC (was: My spreadsheet...)
Re: All change at IG?
Re: Trav List:  pictures from the first interstellar war
Re: Low Passage now safe?
Re: Return of Liaison Skill?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 14:51:37 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Lifeboats

Congrats to Gregory Svenson for posting two excellent lifeboats.  I think
these two designed are especially good, because they would fit into
standard turret-sockets.  Given that many standard CT hull designs include
sockets for weaponry, I would assume that many ships use some or all of
these sockets for lifeboats.  Heck, I know I would... 


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:49:03 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pen.net>
Subject: Re: conservation of momentum

Richard A. Flores wrote:

> Anders Backman <anders.backman@aniware.se> wrote:
> 
>>If you want a graspable analogy consider space being a rubber sheet and
>>that our 3D space is the 2D surface of it. If you put massive object on it
>>it will deform as the balls will sink in a bit, the amount dpendent on the
>>objects mass. The rubber mat is unbreakable by any means except by putting
>>extremely dense objects upon it (this part I do not agree with myself but
>>most physicist seem to believe that these singularities are for real). The
>>rubber mat is also lubricated by an infinitely good lubricant so you'll get
>>NO friction. Play with that for your ingenious devices but remember: You
>>cannot grab the rubber mat, glue to it or anything.

> I like this one best of all.  I don't need to grab anything or throw any
> thing or use ropes or wagons or metal objects or magnets or anything.  I'll
> set on your proposed rubber sheet and reach out my hand and press down on
> it.  Since it is perfectly frictionless, I'll slide into the dimple I've
> made.  Then I pull my hand out from under me and press down again.  I'll
> keep pressing down until I get to where I'm going.  (In the audience, hands
> clap as I wave the one that brought me here.)

I'm sure you realise that to stretch out your hand (a massive object)
requires you expend energy, and the hand at the end of reach then has to
press down with more force (more mass or gravity depending on how you
look at it) than the rest of your body in order for you to slide forward
into the dimple. So, what you are proposing is a way to apply force (in
this case mass or gravitic force) at a distance...nice trick if you can
do it ;->  Anyway, this technique reminds me of ye' ole tractor/pressor
beam.  One more thing, for it really to work you have to be able to lift
your analogus arm *off* the rubber mat, ie out of space/time)...again,
nice trick if you can do it.

>>If you come up with a gizmo that does grab onto it etc then you aren't talking about >>gravity anymore but handwave generated ether vortices produced by contemplating how 
>>many pins can fit on the head of an angel or something.

Anders, you've hit on the solution...if you didn't have religious
objections. ;->  All we have to do is invoke an aether mediated through
Zero Point Fluctuations in the Vacuum. Our reactionless drives turn into
ether propellers. 

Eris

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 18:23:54 EST
From: RSpake2064 <RSpake2064@aol.com>
Subject: Trav List:  pictures from the first interstellar war

hello every one...  it's been awhile since i posted on this list...  but i
need help on a picture i am working on...  here's hte concept;  there are
ambassadors from the major space going Terran nations (pre-Terran
Confederation:  Germany, Great Britain, France, Japan, America, Ukriane and
Russia) meting with the Vilani ambassadors.  I need to know how each of the
ambassadors will work together... ie who would be hostile and who would try
and keep the peace....

Richard

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 23:59:00 GMT 
From: s.johnson107@genie.geis.com
Subject: Return of Liaison Skill?

Was doing up a Diplomat character from the back of Pocket Empires and suddenly
noticed that the main skill for them is LIAISON, a skill I thought removed for
T4.  Am I wrong?  Is this a typo, there was no description of the skill in PE.
What's the deal?

Stephen

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 23:59:00 GMT 
From: s.johnson107@genie.geis.com
Subject: Low Passage now safe?

    I was going through FF&S2 the other night and happened to read up on the
medical rules.  Specifically the ones for the effect a Sickbay has of reducing
the difficult of all roles by two levels.  The implications of this are
obvious, suddenly Low Passage on a Sickbay equiped ship becomes a safe and
cheap alternative to Middle or High Passage.
    If this stands it also has cannon breaking implications, since Low Passage
has always been "risky" in Traveller.  This makes it safe.  Thoughts?

Stephen

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 17:36:22 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Low Passage now safe?

 
>     I was going through FF&S2 the other night and happened to read up on the
> medical rules.  Specifically the ones for the effect a Sickbay has of reducing
> the difficult of all roles by two levels.  The implications of this are
> obvious, suddenly Low Passage on a Sickbay equiped ship becomes a safe and
> cheap alternative to Middle or High Passage.
>     If this stands it also has cannon breaking implications, since Low Passage
> has always been "risky" in Traveller.  This makes it safe.  Thoughts?

Hmmm. Doesn't sound like it's very clear. I'd assume that the Low
Berth roll would'nt use this. It's for medical rolls, like doing
surgery or something. The LB roll is not the same. You could let
skill of the operator help, but the sickbay wouldn't be used until
*after* a LB accident, IMHO.

Still, it isn't very clear.

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:27:14 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Re:Starship With Plans

John

Please forward a copy to me, also.

Thanks
Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

>I was wondering if I could get some Help.
>I have just finished making a 400ton Searching Trader (Far Ranger) with the
>corresponding Deckplans and was wondering if I could get some feedback on
>it. The Ship was made with Mr. Andrew Akins FF&S2 (Grrreat) spreadsheet and
>the plans with Visio 4.  The File has been put to a Word file from Office
>97 and is 284 kb so I really don't want to Jam the list.  If anyone want's
>to get it, I will be more than happy to send it to you.
>Thanks for all of your help.
>
>John Toth

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 09:54:32 +0800
From: "Michael Bailey" <mickb@opera.iinet.net.au>
Subject: Apology (yes, I am an idiot)

Apologies to all and sundry for including the entire blery digest in the
text of my last post.

No more post-midnight mail sessions for this silly bugger.

With profound regrest and embarassment,


Michael Bailey

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 17:55:03 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Quoting, and the Vargr

Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:17:37 -0800, Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
>> VARGR AND THEIR CLOTHING
>> important in providing a clear indication of one's social status, etc. A
>> high Charisma Vargr doesn't rely upon you being sufficiently wealthy to
>> *recognise* that he's wearing a 'designer label' (as humans do). Rather, a
>> Vargr 'designer label' might have the designer's name, sign, whatever,
>> embroidered on every available surface. If the Vargr were particularly
>> favoured, the signs would include something to the effect of "I made this
>> for (name of owner). (signature of Vargr designer)", etc. Don't get me wrong
>> - Vargr visual communications can also be remarkably subtle.

>I would tend to say that the visual clues on the designer may be _very_ subtle -
>the designer's stamp may be olfactory (smell) instead.  It would also tend to
>reinforce the 'status' of a particular Vargr that he/she replaces high-cost
>clothing before their personal scent overcomes that of the designer.

Keep things simpler.  If the Vargr want to have status from scents,
they will simply use scents.  Designer fragrances could simply be
much more important among the Vargr than humans and they could be
equally imporant for both genders.  I human might see a Vargr
who is dressed unimpressively and not appreciate his status
because he sense of smell is so bad....

That, and the fact the they would have different sense of
color are the two things that I see a following logically
from the Vargr....

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 20:32:08 -0600
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Re: Quoting, and the Vargr

At 05:55 PM 1/23/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:17:37 -0800, Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
>>> VARGR AND THEIR CLOTHING
>>> important in providing a clear indication of one's social status, etc. A
>>> high Charisma Vargr doesn't rely upon you being sufficiently wealthy to
>>> *recognise* that he's wearing a 'designer label' (as humans do). Rather, a
>>> Vargr 'designer label' might have the designer's name, sign, whatever,
>>> embroidered on every available surface. If the Vargr were particularly
>>> favoured, the signs would include something to the effect of "I made this
>>> for (name of owner). (signature of Vargr designer)", etc. Don't get me
wrong
>>> - Vargr visual communications can also be remarkably subtle.
>
>>I would tend to say that the visual clues on the designer may be _very_ subtle -
>>the designer's stamp may be olfactory (smell) instead.  It would also tend to
>>reinforce the 'status' of a particular Vargr that he/she replaces high-cost
>>clothing before their personal scent overcomes that of the designer.
>
>Keep things simpler.  If the Vargr want to have status from scents,
>they will simply use scents.  Designer fragrances could simply be
>much more important among the Vargr than humans and they could be
>equally imporant for both genders.  I human might see a Vargr
>who is dressed unimpressively and not appreciate his status
>because he sense of smell is so bad....
>
>That, and the fact the they would have different sense of
>color are the two things that I see a following logically
>from the Vargr....

Please continue this thread, I am finding most interesting and enlightening.

I am trying to do the Roth Thokken as subrace of Vargr. Scents would even
mean more to the Roth due thier being born blind.

- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 19:35:35 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Acceleration and maximum velocity

The MT design sequence, FF&S1 & FF&S2 all had rules for determining the 
maxmimum velocity (in atmosphere) for a vehicle given X acceleration. Do 
any of these figures have any basis in fact?

Given that FF&S2 now states that contragrav has a max forward acceleration
of 0.16 Gs.  This isn't much. but the 112 Kph maximum speed (FF&S2 page 
106) this gives sounds woefully low.  In MT the figure is 180 kph (MT 
Referee's Manual page 86) better, but still very low.  I've been in small 
planes with low acceleration (ie lower than I could notice and they had 
speeds of more like 300-400 kph.  Hell, cars with very low accelerations can 
easily do 180 kph.  I would also except this figures to vary quite a bit 
depending on whether you are talking about streamlined or airframe hulls.

Can anyone provide real world figures (or even good guesses) on
acceleration and top speed for real-world ground or air vehicles?  I'd 
like some real numbers to compare to the (to me) highly dubious 
Traveller ones.

Also, anyone know why the set the figures so low.  15% 20% & 25% sound
much better for thrust factors for TL 9, 10, & 12. 

Many Thanks-


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:36:00 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Return of Liaison Skill?

s.johnson107@genie.geis.com wrote:


>Was doing up a Diplomat character from the back of Pocket Empires and suddenly
>noticed that the main skill for them is LIAISON, a skill I thought removed for
>T4.  Am I wrong?  Is this a typo, there was no description of the skill in PE.
>What's the deal?


Well, Stephen, it seems that Bureaucrats can get it on a roll of 4/5 just
like the Diplomats.

I know let's ask Marc.  Well?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 22:39:05 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Low tech ship design

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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I ran across the following address while surfing:
http://www.sover.net/~geoffk/eder_transport_list.txt

It is the work of Dani Eder.  IIRC, I read somewhere that Mr. Eder works =
(or worked) for Boeing in R&D.  What follows is a quote from that page =
that might be of interest to those of you working this area.

>>"Canonical List of Space Transport and Engineering Methods"

Version 0.75

28 Jun 1994

by: Dani Eder, Route 1, Box 188-2, Athens, AL =
35611eder@hsvaic.hv.boeing.com <<

>>The rocket equation:

Some numbers will illustrate the problem.  A good chemical rocket has an =
exhaust velocity (the speed of the gases coming out the nozzle) of 4500 =
m/s.  The velocity to reach orbit is about 9000 m/s.  The basic equation =
of rocketry, the "rocket equation" tells you that the ratio of rocket =
mass when full of fuel to rocket mass after burning the fuel is:

m(i) / m(f) =3D exp ( dV / v(e) )

Where:     m(i)  =3D intial mass
                 m(f)  =3D final mass
                 dV    =3D velocity change (9000 m/s in this case)
                 v(e)  =3D exhaust velocity (4500 m/s in this case)

So in our example, dV/v(e) =3D 2, so m(i)/m(f) =3D exp(2) =3D 7.39.

Therefore 1/7.39, or 13.5% of the initial weight is left on reaching =
orbit. In the past (before 1980s), the structure would be about 15% of =
the takeoff mass, so there was a negative payload (i.e. you couldn't get =
to orbit), even with a throw-away structure.The rocket equation is =
generally valid for any type of reaction engine with any velocity =
change.<<



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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 =
HTML//EN">
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>I ran across the following address while=20
surfing:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.sover.net/~geoffk/eder_transport_list.txt">http://www.=
sover.net/~geoffk/eder_transport_list.txt</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>It is the work of Dani Eder.&nbsp; IIRC, I read somewhere that Mr. Eder=20
works (or worked) for Boeing in R&amp;D.&nbsp; What follows is a quote from that=20
page that might be of interest to those of you working this area.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt;&gt;&quot;Canonical List of Space Transport and Engineering=20
Methods&quot;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Version 0.75</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>28 Jun 1994</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>by: Dani Eder, Route 1, Box 188-2, Athens, AL <A=20
href=3D"mailto:35611eder@hsvaic.hv.boeing.com">35611eder@hsvaic.hv.boeing=
..com</A>=20
&lt;&lt;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt;&gt;The rocket equation:</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Some numbers will illustrate the problem.&nbsp; A good chemical rocket has=20
an exhaust velocity (the speed of the gases coming out the nozzle) of 4500=20
m/s.&nbsp; The velocity to reach orbit is about 9000 m/s.&nbsp; The basic=20
equation of rocketry, the &quot;rocket equation&quot; tells you that the ratio=20
of rocket mass when full of fuel to rocket mass after burning the fuel is:</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>m(i) / m(f) =3D exp ( dV / v(e) )</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Where:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; m(i)&nbsp; =3D intial mass</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
m(f)&nbsp; =3D final mass</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
dV&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =3D velocity change (9000 m/s in this case)</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
v(e)&nbsp; =3D exhaust velocity (4500 m/s in this case)</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>So in our example, dV/v(e) =3D 2, so m(i)/m(f) =3D exp(2) =3D =
7.39.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Therefore 1/7.39, or 13.5% of the initial weight is left on =
reaching orbit.=20
In the past (before 1980s), the structure would be about 15% of the =
takeoff=20
mass, so there was a negative payload (i.e. you couldn't get to orbit), =
even=20
with a throw-away structure.The rocket equation is generally valid for =
any type=20
of reaction engine with any velocity change.&lt;&lt;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01BD284F.B61B1EC0--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 22:51:44 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Rob Prior - is your mail okay

Dom Mooney writes:
>
>Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:37:33 +0000
>
>From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
>
>Subject: Rob Prior - is your mail okay
>
>
>
>Apologies for using the TML like this but I can't get through any other
>way
>
>at the moment.
>
>
>
>- ----
>
>
>
>Rob,
>
>
>
>Your email is giving delayed messages again like it did last time it went
>
>funny.
>
>
>
>Dom

Actually, we've had a few network failures.  Funny how things worked fine
until we switched to a centrally-managed Windows NT system...

I've got a few messages from Dom, but I've also been getting the TML
digests is reverse chronologucal order.  

I console myself withthe thought that, however bad our internal network
is, it would be far worse with IG running things... :-(

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 23:08:55 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Infini-V on PC (was: My spreadsheet...)

Dom Mooney writes:
>
>I believe Rob Prior is planning to port Infini-V, Metator and FFS2 to the
>
>PC when he gets some time and if IG ever sort out billing him for products
>
>he hasn't had.

Planning to, but after the last phone call I had with IG I'm not so eager.
 

So uneager, in fact, that I'm writing to the Attorney General to complain
about IGs business practices.  No products three ^&*^*& months after
billing, and all James can do is make excuses and and another broken
promise.  I've been understanding.  I've been _more_ than understanding:
I've been a sucker.  

No more.  Imperium Games can damn well cough up my books, plus interest
and the cost of phoning them, or I'll spend even more money just to get
even.  

I'm sorry, Marc, but this has gone on long enough.  It's time that the
people using your name started treating their customers with a bit of
decency.  If you can't do something about it, I'm going to try.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 00:45:45 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: All change at IG?

In a message dated 98-01-23 14:13:04 EST, you write:

<< the chap I talked to (James) said that the
 chap in Wisconsin doing the shipping (Tim Brown) was the one making the
 mistakes,  >>

I don't believe that (Tim) is making the mistakes. 

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 00:45:45 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Trav List:  pictures from the first interstellar war

In a message dated 98-01-23 18:35:28 EST, you write:

<< 
 hello every one...  it's been awhile since i posted on this list...  but i
 need help on a picture i am working on...  here's hte concept;  there are
 ambassadors from the major space going Terran nations (pre-Terran
 Confederation:  Germany, Great Britain, France, Japan, America, Ukriane and
 Russia) meting with the Vilani ambassadors.  I need to know how each of the
 ambassadors will work together... ie who would be hostile and who would try
 and keep the peace....
 
 Richard
  >>

There wouldn't be... Everything is under the UN.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 00:45:43 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Low Passage now safe?

In a message dated 98-01-23 19:14:04 EST, you write:

<<     I was going through FF&S2 the other night and happened to read up on
the
 medical rules.  Specifically the ones for the effect a Sickbay has of
reducing
 the difficult of all roles by two levels.  The implications of this are
 obvious, suddenly Low Passage on a Sickbay equiped ship becomes a safe and
 cheap alternative to Middle or High Passage.
     If this stands it also has cannon breaking implications, since Low
Passage
 has always been "risky" in Traveller.  This makes it safe.  Thoughts?
 
 Stephen
  >>

It is canon breaking, and it shouldn't be. The problem is not seeing
manuscripts before hand, and not having a discussion with the writers of those
manuscripts about reassurances that canon won;t be broken. A writer of
anything Traveller has a responsibility to know what is canon, and if writing
something that violates that, to discuss it (and get a yes or no) before it is
printed.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 00:45:42 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Return of Liaison Skill?

In a message dated 98-01-23 22:44:20 EST, you write:

<< 
 I know let's ask Marc.  Well?
 
  >>

PE and several other texts went into print without my seeing them, a matter
for which I have gotten increasingly distressed. That's why skills get
included without definitions, for example.

What follows is my (unfinished) Liaison skill definion, and a list of the
skills that will be in T4.1

Marc

	Liaison	Int, Soc
	The character has the ability to convey information and forge agreements
between differing cultures.

	Liaison, Admin, Carousing, Diplomacy, Fast-Talk, and Streetwise are related
skills. Carousing is the skill of meeting people and enjoying their company.
Admin is the skill of working within an organization. Fast Talk is the skill
of reaching short-term agreement. Liaison is the informal skill of
coordinating relationships between different cultures or organizations.
Diplomacy is the formal skill of negotiation between governments or large
organizations. Streetwise is the skill of dealing with local subcultures
without alienating them.

SKILLS LIST
	Academic	Cluster
x	Acting	Int, Edu  
	Administration	Int, Edu  
	Aircraft	Cascade
	Archeology	Edu, Dex
	Armorer	Dex, Int
x	Art	Dex, Int
	Artillery	Int, Str
	Astrogation	Edu, End
x	Athletics	Dex, End
	Battle Dress	Dex
	Biology	Edu, Int
	Blade Combat	Cascade
x	Bow Combat	Dex
x	Brawling	Dex, Str
x	Bribery	Int, Soc
x	Broker	Edu
	Bureaucracy	Cluster
	Business	Cluster
x	Camouflage	Int, Str
x	Carousing	Soc, End
	Chemistry	Edu, Int
	Clandestine	Cluster
	Combat Engineering	Int
	Communications	Edu, Int
x	Computer	Edu, Int
 	Concealment 	Dex
x	Craftsman	Dex, End
	Criminology	Cluster
	Cryptography	Int, Edu
	Cutlass	Str, End
x	Dance	Dex, Soc
	Demolitions	Dex
x	Diplomacy	Soc
x	Disguise	Int
	Electronics	Edu, Int
	Engineering	Int, Str
x	Environment Cbt	Dex, Int
x	Equestrian	Dex, Soc
	Exploration	Cluster
x	Fast Talk	Int, Edu
	Fencing	Dex, Soc
x	Fighting	Cascade
x	First Aid	Int, Edu
	Fleet Tactics	Int, Edu
	Forensics	Int, Edu
x	Forgery	Dex, Int
	Forward Obsvr	Int, Edu
x	Gambling	Int, Dex
	Geology	Edu, Int
x	Grav Craft	Dex
	Gravitics	Dex, Int
x	Ground Craft	Dex, Int
x	Gun Combat	Cascade
	Gunnery	Cascade
x	Heavy Weapons	Dex, Str
	Helicopter	Dex, Int
	History	Edu, Int
	Hunting	End, Dex
x	Instruction	Int, Edu
	Interact	Cluster
x	Interrogation	Int, End
x	Intimidation	Str, End
x	Intrusion	Dex, Int
x	Investigation	Int, Edu
	Jack of All Trades	varies
	Jet Plane	Dex, Int
x	Knife	Dex
	Language	Int, Edu
	Law	Edu, Int
	Leadership	Int, Soc
	Liaison	Int, Soc
	Linguistics	Edu, Int
	Mechanics	Dex, Int
	Medical	Edu, Dex
x	Melee	Str, End
	Military	Cluster
x	Music	Dex,Edu
	Naval	Cluster
	Naval Architect	Edu, Int
x	Navigation	Edu, Int
x	Perception	Int
	Performance	Cluster
x	Philosophy	Int, Edu
	Physical Scien	Cluster
	Physics	Edu, Int
	Pilot	Int, Edu
x	Pistol	Dex
	Prop Plane	Dex, Int
	Prospecting	End, Int
	Psionicology	Int, Edu
x	Psychology	Int, Edu
x	Recon	Dex, End
	Recruiting	Int
x	Research	Edu, Int
x	Rifle	Dex
	Robotics	Int, Dex
	Screens	End, Dex
	Sensors	Int, Edu
	Ship Tactics	Int
	Ship’s Boat	Dex, Int
	Ship’s Guns	Dex, Int
x	Shotgun	Dex
	Social Science	Cluster
	Soldier	Cluster
	Spacecraft	Cluster
x	Stealth 	Dex
	Steward	Int
	Strategy	Int, Edu
x	Streetwise	Int, End
x	Submachinegun	Dex
	Survey	Edu, Int
x	Survival	Int, Str
x	Sword	Dex, Str
	Tactics	Int, Edu
	Technical	Cluster
x	Throwing	Dex, Str
x	Trader	Int, Edu
x	Vac Suit	Dex
x	Watercraft	Dex, Int
x	Writing	Int, Edu
 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #34
*********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Saturday, January 24 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 035



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Return of Liaison Skill?
IG delivers (well sort of)
Re: IG delivers (well sort of)
Re: All change at IG?
Time of Death for Spacing
Re: TTL
Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography
Low Berths and Gravisonic Modulators
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #34
Re: All change at IG?
Re: All change at IG?
Re: Hull Paint
Re: Low Passage now safe?
Re: Major and Minor Human Races
Colony Growth Patterns
Re: Return of Liaison Skill?
Re: Return of Liaison Skill?
Re: Traveller Demo
Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy
RE: Re:Starship With Plans
Re: All change at IG?
Off topic: ISP charges

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 22:57:01 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Return of Liaison Skill?

At 12:45 AM 1/24/98 EST, Marc wrote:

>SKILLS LIST

>x	Gun Combat	Cascade
>x	Pistol	Dex
>x	Rifle	Dex
>x	Shotgun	Dex
>x	Submachinegun	Dex

I will now take the unusual position (for me, anyway) of lobbying Marc to
change something.

Marc, using a firearm is based on your ability to control the weapon as it
fires.  This is a function of Strength.  Think back to your own days in
basic.  Remember the emphasis on firm control and proper squeezing of the
trigger?

I am humbly asking that you consider making this change.  I base my idea on
my own experience as a sniper in the US Army.  I've hit targets out to
800m, and I'm the original klutz.

(What I reaaly wish is that Marc would get ahold of ACQ, realize that it's
the Greatest Traveller Combat System (tm) since Snapshot, and put it in
Traveller.. but I'll be realistic.)

- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 20:14:51 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: IG delivers (well sort of)

Well Yesterday my *long* overdue books from IG finally arrived. Why had
they been delayed? IG had sent them surface mail! Surface mail takes
between 3 and 4 months from the US to NZ (so much for IG vaunted promises
regarding delivery before the shops get them!). Well at least I finally
got the goods. My question now is, is this delivery method now standard?
If it is, I'm not buying from IG anymore.

Am I happy? *****NO*****

IG has not even done the courtesy of even acknowledging contact until
I threatened legal action. When IG finally did contact me (about three
weeks ago) it was just to acknowledge my query and I've not heard anything
since that date. IMHO if IG ain't going broke they sure as hell deserve to.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm (general)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/abuse/abuse.htm (sexual abuse pages)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/traveller.htm (Traveller pages)

****************************************************************************
We're digging a hole in the road, you can't go up, you can't go down
you'll have to wait to drive around
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:03:43 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: IG delivers (well sort of)

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:

> Well Yesterday my *long* overdue books from IG finally arrived. Why had
> they been delayed? IG had sent them surface mail! Surface mail takes
> between 3 and 4 months from the US to NZ (so much for IG vaunted promises
> regarding delivery before the shops get them!).

Ah, the land of the long white cloud.  Home to Fitzy!  Steven Fitzpatrick,
hooker and captain for the All-Blacks.  My idol.  (Yeah, I'm a front-row player,
10 years under my belt so I understand whats going on, but now I'm in a poor
position to do anything about it ;-)  You got any of the "honay" I think its
called - the stuff where you dig a hole, throw in a pig, cover it, smoke it, eat
it, usually around Xmas?  I've seen it on film and my buds from Rotorua say its
unbeleiveable.

One day,  I will learn to tell a man from Wellington by the way he holds his hat
when he turns a corner.

Bloo


> Well at least I finally
> got the goods. My question now is, is this delivery method now standard?
> If it is, I'm not buying from IG anymore.
>
> Am I happy? *****NO*****
>
> IG has not even done the courtesy of even acknowledging contact until
> I threatened legal action. When IG finally did contact me (about three
> weeks ago) it was just to acknowledge my query and I've not heard anything
> since that date. IMHO if IG ain't going broke they sure as hell deserve to.

This isn't suprising.  I hate to say it, but I doubt your threat of legal action
even raised an eyebrow.  I'd represent you, after I pass the bar in July, but it
would be a long, boring, and probably unfruitful exercise.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:13:36 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: All change at IG?

CardSharks wrote:

> In a message dated 98-01-23 14:13:04 EST, you write:
>
> << the chap I talked to (James) said that the
>  chap in Wisconsin doing the shipping (Tim Brown) was the one making the
>  mistakes,  >>
>
> I don't believe that (Tim) is making the mistakes.
>
> Marc

Blaming an individual, even if you believe you've been given the name
correctly, is rarely a wise move.  I hope Tim isn't catching any touble for
your post.  Having siad that , individuals are capable of wrecking havok on
companies, especially small ones.

My question to you is, why order stuff from IG anyway?  While geography is
probably the answer, I would never, ever, ever, order a product sight
unseen.  Especially RPG materials which are (with very rare exception,
Traveller sometimes included within that small group), inherently
unreliable.  Naval Architect's Manual has been on the shelves in Dallas, TX
stores since at least December 17.  I was able to thumb through this book
several times before finally buying it last wekk in Boston  (If it weren't
so useful towards my interest in developing Space Stations, I wouldn't have
bought it).

But then, perhaps I'm too much of a penny-pincher, living on student loans
and all.

I hope you get it soon and I hope it was worht your wait.  But I also hope
the delay doesn't build your expectations because this book has a very
limited interest I should think.  No offense to its designers.  Its of great
use to me, I'm just doubting that the great unwashed hordes of Trav Fans are
beating down the doors for this product in particular.  For Aslan and Vargyr
stuff, maybe.


Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 09:15:39 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Time of Death for Spacing

Greets,

(Doug Berry and) I were wondering if anyone could care to speculate on the
time it would take for an average individual to die once exposed to a
vacuum?  I'm sure clothing and preparation might help but I/we don't want
to get too technical.  Such a character could find himself exposed to a
vacuum after a major vacc suit tear (assume no patches) or by being blown
out into space (a la: Spacing).

So, how long would the poor bastard survive before being considered
"clinically dead"?



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"

 Money talks... it usually says "bend over"...

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 09:15:37 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: TTL

On Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:35:28 -0800 (PST), Clark Crawford wrote:

> How does one get on the TTL?  Is membership restricted?

Yes.  You must insert $20 through your floppy drive slot for one month's
access :)

Or you could follow the following (much more) helpful advice:



If you have any questions about the policy of the list owner, please
contact "trav-tech-approval@qrc.com".







James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"

 Money talks... it usually says "bend over"...

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:19:41 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography

Andrew Boulton wrote:

> In-Reply-To: <34C80E59.50212985@bu.edu>
>
> Stevie,
>
> > > I think Bryan Borich intended to talk to GW about the IISS Ship Files and
> > > other items, and he may have more up to date info on a wider picture - what
> > > say, Bryan? Anyone?
> >
> >   Asking for permission is definitely the right way to go.  But it may not be
> > absolutely necessary.  Uh . . .  I was going to make some long and complicated
> > copyright arguments about why they wouldn't win a case if they sued you, but
> > you're right in the end.  Keep 'em happy.  Ask nicely.  And let your forehead
> > touch the ground as you bow.  (Thats for humor and not a arcastic comment.  I
> > 'd really love to enlighten you all on copyright law in the US, and even the
> > EU, but I'm tired and it would basically be pointless anyway.)
>
> Of course, there are those who consider GW to be scum-sucking lowlifes, the
> enemy of all roleplayers, and who would welcome any blow, however small, against
> the chaos-death-spiky ones...

In that case, get your advice now, while I'm still a student and prohibited by law
from giving legal assitance in any official fashion.  Its free.  Once July comes
though, I'm obligated by law to leech as much money out of all parties as possible.
Lucifer commands.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 17:10:25
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Low Berths and Gravisonic Modulators

The problem of TL11+ low berths being safer due to use of "Gravisonic
Modulators" is IMO easy to fix - just add 1 to the survival roll per TL
over 10, but snake eyes still results in death/injury/disfigurement.

A related but IMO more major problem is what hot bunking and overcrowding
staterooms does to travel costs - putting 2 Middle Passengers into a small
stateroom makes more sense from a profit POV than carrying a single High
Passenger.

This double-bunking will cost Cr 1000 each in "life support costs", plus
one-half of the net Cr9 000 the stateroom could earn by carrying a single
High Passenger. Therefore the cost of travelling 3rd class should be around
Cr 5500, as compared to Cr 8000 for 2nd class (ie standard Middle Passage).

Under FFS2, you can hot-bunk in a 14m3 bunk, and fit 2 people into it. A
low berth also takes up 14m3, and fits one. Assuming type III life support
on the ship and 21 kg of Meager meals each (cost Cr 126 each for 2 weeks).

This puts the cost of bunking at awfully close to the traditional Cr 100
overhead for a low berth.

It wont be a comfortable trip, but it beats running the low lottery.

Eyeballing the numbers, and assuming the magic Cr 1000 per person cost for
"life support costs", the cost of a 4th class passage should be Cr 1750 or
so (food, Cr 130 ; "life support" Cr 1000 ; 0.5 dtons ship space, Cr 500 ;
profit/marketing/whatever Cr 120).

This is equivalent to about the average income of a TL8 world in Imperial
Credits.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 17:56:03
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #34

At 12:51 AM 24/01/9
>From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
>Subject: Acceleration and maximum velocity
>
>Given that FF&S2 now states that contragrav has a max forward acceleration
>of 0.16 Gs.  This isn't much. but the 112 Kph maximum speed (FF&S2 page 
>106) this gives sounds woefully low.  In MT the figure is 180 kph (MT 
>Referee's Manual page 86) better, but still very low.  I've been in small 
>planes with low acceleration (ie lower than I could notice and they had 
>speeds of more like 300-400 kph.  Hell, cars with very low accelerations can 
>easily do 180 kph.  I would also except this figures to vary quite a bit 
>depending on whether you are talking about streamlined or airframe hulls.

>Many Thanks-
>
>
>- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

I *think* that the numbers given are for 1G and partially streamlined
hulls. More gees and an airframe hull will get you more thrust or increased
thrust efficiency (see table 162 on p104).

The alternative for a craft that really wants higher speed is to put an
auxilary atmospheric propulsion unit on it - props, a rotor or a jet engine
on it to help out the contragrav.

As far as I understand, contragrav is basically designed to get you out of
gravity wells, not for mucking around in them.

>
>From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
>Subject: Re: Trav List:  pictures from the first interstellar war
>
>In a message dated 98-01-23 18:35:28 EST, you write:
>

>There wouldn't be... Everything is under the UN.
>
>Marc
>

Having followed UN politics reasonably closely, I think that this is a tad
optimistic to say that the UN negotiating team wouldnt be "regionally
balanced".

I would say that each of the old major spacegoing powers would have a rep
on the committee, plus one from the Africa bloc, one from the South/Central
America bloc, one from China and one from Western European and Others (ie
Canada/Sweden/other Euro/Australia/New Zealand).

That puts one EEC, one USA, one Ukraine, one Russian, one Chinese, one
Japanese, one Africa, one South American and one WEO (I'm assuming China
and Japan are also spacegoing powers, which is IMO reasonable).

I also suspect that the teams would have a mix of civilians and military
types - and I wouldnt assume the military would be the hawks, either.

Since a committee of nine is a bit unweildy, how about two subcommittees,
Military and Economic ?

Also, from the other side, I think ambassadors is putting it a bit
strongly. I suspect an assistant underflunky for the Sub-regional Governor
and the Mine Manager of the Barnard's Star facility sounds about right,
plus maybe a seconded Fleet Captain with experience of Minor Race Liaison.

Could make a great freeform though ...

Ian Whitchurch   

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 13:50:20 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: All change at IG?

- -> << the chap I talked to (James) said that the
- ->  chap in Wisconsin doing the shipping (Tim Brown) was the one making the
- ->  mistakes,  >>
- -> 
- -> I don't believe that (Tim) is making the mistakes. 
- -> 
- -> Marc
But *Someone* seems to be making these mistakes and lots of them, and 
all the ones that they happen too are on the TML. I agree that 
pointing fingers doesn't help, but the present situation is 
unacceptable!
 



Ad Astra,
V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ------- check out: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061 --------
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --

- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 13:51:49 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: All change at IG?

- -> use to me, I'm just doubting that the great unwashed hordes of Trav Fans are
- -> beating down the doors for this product in particular.  For Aslan and Vargyr
- -> stuff, maybe.
BTW:
What's the status on that book?
Ad Astra,
V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ------- check out: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061 --------
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --

- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 13:56:19 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Hull Paint

- -> According to the rules, you can receive a credit on your ship's hull by
- -> painting it a single color rather than the chameleon coat - and you get even
- -> a bigger credit if you put no paint on it at all. The problem is, with real
- -> cheap hulls (like a small freighter), this credit can be larger than the
- -> cost of the hull itself! That is, your hull is free!
Whoa, what a mistake!
- -> 
- -> This, of course, is wrong. What would be a better way of handling this? I
- -> think that a percentage based system would be better - single color hulls
- -> are 90% the cost of regular, plain hulls are 80%, etc... What do you think
- -> of that? And what should the percentages be (I offered the above only as
- -> examples...)
It's only paint, right? And how much is a 100kt Spaceship hull? Bout 
500.000Cr or so? Anyway, i feel a simple paint job should not greatly 
affect hull pricing, maybe up to 0.1%, feeling generous!


Ad Astra,
V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ------- check out: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061 --------
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --

- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 14:02:09 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Low Passage now safe?

- ->     I was going through FF&S2 the other night and happened to read up on the
- -> medical rules.  Specifically the ones for the effect a Sickbay has of reducing
- -> the difficult of all roles by two levels.  The implications of this are
- -> obvious, suddenly Low Passage on a Sickbay equiped ship becomes a safe and
- -> cheap alternative to Middle or High Passage.
- ->     If this stands it also has cannon breaking implications, since Low Passage
- -> has always been "risky" in Traveller.  This makes it safe.  Thoughts?
I don't like it, so i won't use it! Low Berths are risky and remain 
so even with a trained medical officer aiding in the process of un-
thawing. Sickjbay or no- Low Berths are risky!

Ad Astra,
V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ------- check out: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061 --------
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --

- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 14:06:31 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Major and Minor Human Races

- ->     Kukhun ( 3105 B658997-E ) was seeded by the Ancients with human
- ->     stock around 300,000 years ago. By the time that the Vilani
(snip)
- ->     had signed up.  In 74 non-Lancians on the strategic world of
- ->     Shiramuunir ( 2507 C444AC8-F ) revolted in defiance of the
- ->     Lancian government, calling for Imperium help to free them from
- ->     Lancian "tyranny".
Tech Level E ???
Tech Level F ??? 
In M:0???
Why didn't they whup the 3I's behind?
Probably another of the famous reasons why FS is Crap!

Ad Astra,
V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ------- check out: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061 --------
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --

- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 21:07:22 -0800
From: crystal <crystal@postme.net>
Subject: Colony Growth Patterns

< Cross-posted from:
  Alternative Energy Discussion List at <AE@SJSUVM1.SJSU.EDU> >

David  Rezachek, Ph.D.,P.E. wrote:
> OCEANS 98, organized by the IEEE Oceanic Engineering, celebrates the
> second venue of the Conference in Europe. OCEANS 98 will be held from
> September 28 to October 1, 1998 in Nice on the French Riviera.

> This OCEANS will be set under the theme of  Engineering for 
> Sustainable Use of the Oceans  which is also the main theme for the 
> European Union Marine and Science Technology (MAST) programme.

> Papers are being requested on various marine aspects of such Green
> Enertopia centers. For example: (1) infrastructure requirements and
> development; (2) environmental impacts on the ocean; (3) design and
> deployment of large floating structures; (4) maximum utilization and
> integration OTEC and other renewable energy sources; (5) associated
> mariculture and fisheries development; etc.

> Green Enertopia centers are remote areas, on land or at sea, which 
> serve as real-world models of sustainable development for their host
> countries. These centers involve more than just small-scale
> demonstration projects. They must have functionality. They are 
> designed to provide the communities involved with a significant 
> proportion of their energy, and other infrastructure, needs in an
> environmentally-acceptable manner.

> A Green Enertopia center could be sited in a coastal area, on an 
> island, or on a large floating structure designed as a self-sustaining
> residential-industrial complex.

> Green Enertopia centers also serve to showcase technology and as 
> public education and technician training centers for those who design,
> construct, operate, and maintain them. These centers can then be
> duplicated, on a larger scale, in other areas.

< Snip >

Well, to start off. 

In these Enertopia, there should be a greater proportion of semi-skilled
labour living in them. Somebody has to clear the branches, maintain the
dams and chop the firewood. As any self-sustaining colony, even if
relying on outside supplies and inhabitants, will need such 'Mexican'
labour. On a remote planet, esp. so in the early phases, they are much
needed for manual work. Construction, repair, logistics are certainly
much more slower than planning. 

I wouldn't find commerce located there until a substantial residential
base is reached. Much as military field camps, early American colonies,
rural slums: they start from technicians to wealth accumulation to
trading. Medium of exchange: cigarettes, barter (with Indians) and
labour (for slums). 

Traditionally wealth accumulation was from industrial complexes (labour)
or war (stealing) that exploited local / captured and (lately - 20th
century) imported resources that led to trading. These have a limit as
the end of industrial production is consumer market saturation. Assuming
zero or negative population growth rate.

Therein, the reason financial trading appears at a later stage. Whether
located off-world on distant soil (eg: established exchanges) is also
possible. The reason being financial trading must be carried out in
legal tender that is recognized by existing sovereignty, to be
convertible.

I guess, there is a size before a colony gets too many numerous tasks
(complexity) for the administration. Then new admin zones may be appear
to coordinate new social and tech tasks. As more people / new
generations / new colonist shift their activities to newer tasks, the
central admin will be surrounded by other admin centres, which if not
the same in importance (measurable by pop / monetary terms) at least
indispensable.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 14:13:57 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Return of Liaison Skill?

- -> >SKILLS LIST
- -> 
- -> >x  Gun Combat  Cascade
- -> >x  Pistol  Dex
- -> >x  Rifle   Dex
- -> >x  Shotgun Dex
- -> >x  Submachinegun   Dex
- -> Marc, using a firearm is based on your ability to control the weapon as it
- -> fires.  This is a function of Strength.  Think back to your own days in
- -> basic.  Remember the emphasis on firm control and proper squeezing of the
- -> trigger?
However, I would suggest keeping the Dex, since for *Aiming*, and 
*Firing*, dexterity (how to hold the rifle, direct the gun at your 
target, how to squeeze the trigger) seems much more appropriate. 
Strength would only apply if you try to pull a Schwarzenegger, i.e 
fire Two Machineguns while standing up!
I say, keep the Dex!  




Ad Astra,
V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ------- check out: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061 --------
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --

- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 14:15:55 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Return of Liaison Skill?

- -> PE and several other texts went into print without my seeing them, a matter
- -> for which I have gotten increasingly distressed. That's why skills get
- -> included without definitions, for example.
But this will change, won't it? Please say you read everything from 
now on!
- -> SKILLS LIST
Hmm, i'll check that!
Ad Astra,
V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ------- check out: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061 --------
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --

- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 14:24:47 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Traveller Demo

- -> << So, I'd like some ideas from the list. Either a brief note on what
- ->  themes *you* would like to introduce in a "demo" scenario, or pointers
- ->  to published adventures which, in your opinion, would work well for
- ->  this. I don't own a large collection of Traveller Stuff, but a friend of
- ->  mine has a large collection of older and semi-obscure stuff from
- ->  Traveller's Glory Days, and he will have no problem in lending me some.
- ->   >>
- -> 
- -> I think you should play Memory Alpha (its included in the Traveller Referee
- -> Screen). 
Another nice one appeared in an issue of Challenge. If was kind of a 
horror-scenario where the ship misjumps and people start acting 
crazy. It's ideal, because not much is needed as background info, and 
makes a great campaign starter! If i could only remember the name....
Ad Astra,
V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ------- check out: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061 --------
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --

- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 14:36:45 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

- -> I'm game for it but don't have a website & consider it unlikely to get
- -> paper publication (although I'd love that).  While the Darmine are about
Why don't you go to one of the many free web-space-providers, like 
Geocities (blatant plug for my own page below), or others. Normal Web 
access is enough and designing a page is easy enough using Navigator 
Gold or Netscape 4.0.

Ad Astra,
V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ------- check out: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061 --------
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --

- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 20:56:23 -0500
From: John Toth <jtoth@erols.com>
Subject: RE: Re:Starship With Plans

I am going to re-pack the file so I can update the drawing.  Sunday OK for you?

John

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 98 15:16 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: All change at IG?

In-Reply-To: <fc.00003c54004d50b73b9aca00bbc39baa.9579@nybe.on.ca>

Rob,

> When I pointed out that I had heard that story twice before (it seems to
> be the standard story I get whenever they bill me for something they don't
> ship) he started talking about how it was all Tim's fault and how Anne
> Flagella was overworked and how I should see the thousands of order that
> were shipped successfully and... (at which point I told him that I was
> paying for the call and hung up).

Well, if her last email is anything to go by, AF certainly needs a rest - it 
was all un upper case and she said I obviously hated the company...
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 10:25:41 EST
From: Kagehira <Kagehira@aol.com>
Subject: Off topic: ISP charges

	The FCC has till April 10th to decide whether ISPs need to pay for universal
services.
	Public notice concerning the report and details on how to file comments can
be found at http://www.fcc.gov/.

	Information provided by Infoworld magazine.

Bryan

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #35
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Saturday, January 24 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 036



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Time of Death for Spacing
posting WD material
Re: Traveller Demo
Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy
low-tech ship design
misc missile comments
Re(2): All change at IG?
Traveller Demo Scenario
Re: Low Passage now safe?
Re: Return of Liaison Skill?
Re: Guns of the Wild West
Re: All change at IG?
Re: Return of Liaison Skill?
Re Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Missiles
Re: Question: Computers St vs Fb, what is this really?
Re: IG delivers (well sort of)
Re: Major and Minor Human Races
Acceleration and maximum velocity
Re: Return of Liaison Skill?
Q: Zhodani Ship Configuration (?)
Starports in White Dwarf 43

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 10:37:45 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

A character who is spaced (explosive decompression) or exposed to vacuum
suffers:

Decompression
	The environment for the character (vac suit, building, vehicle) loses
pressure.
	Slow Leak. Suffocate-1 per hour.
	Major Leak. Suffocate-1 per ten minutes.
	Explosive Decompression. Suffocate-1 per combat round.

This is based on the T4.1 hit system (abridged pertinent version below). By my
reading, the average guy will survive 42 seconds before unconsciousness and be
dead in about 2 minutes.

Now AC Clarke wrote a story once that covered a mass transfer of (space
miners) from one stricken ship to another without space suits (there weren't
enough to go round). I don't remember his time for survival, and the
characters weren't explosive decompressed (and were ready for the crisis).

Marc Miller


 THE TRAVELLER HIT SYSTEM
	The Traveller Hit System imposes hits (measures of injury or damage) on
characters in increments. Hits are imposed on the target’s Physical
Characteristics (Strength, Dexterity, or Endurance) in any order. When one
characteristic is reduced to zero, the character is unconscious. When two
characteristics are reduced to zero, the character is seriously wounded. When
three characteristics are reduced to zero, the character is dead.
	Types of Hit Generators. Hits can be generated in a number of ways (although
all hits then are implemented against the common set of physical
characteristics). Hits are generated by Hits, Cuts, Cold, and Heat.

Special Injury and Effects
	Suffocate is applied to Intelligence (instead of the three physical
characteristics). When Intelligence is reduced to zero, the character is
unconscious. When Suffocate equal to twice Intelligence are  received, the
character is in a coma; when Suffocate equal to three times Intelligence, the
character is dead.

How Many Hits?
	The number of hits (or the severity of Special Injury) is determined by the
weapon or event inflicting the damage. For example, a Rifle may impose 3D
Hits, a Pistol may impose 1D Hits, and a Flash-Bang (a type of grenade) may
impose 3D Blind and 3D Deafen.
 
Hit Effects:
	nD indicates the number (n) of dice (D) rolled for the injury. In addition,
the effect includes +D - D.
	nD Hits. Roll for number of hits received.
	nD Suffocate. Roll for number of hits received per turn, which are applied to
Intelligence.
 
HIT EFFECT VARIANCE
	All hit effects (Hits, Suffocate) are subject to a variance of +/- 5 (based
on a +D-D roll). When hits are inflicted, the final value is then adjusted by
a +D-D roll. For example, 6D Hits is read as 6D +D -D Hits.

Vac					uu	uu								Suff. Hits.
u= Inflicts Hits (Hits, Cold, Heat, and Suffocate).

PROTECTION
	LungShield. Protects against nD Suffocate. Eliminates any effect of Gas.
Description will say LungShield.
	VacSuit. Protects against nD Vac. Eliminates any effect of Vac. Description
will say VacSuit.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 10:46:24 EST
From: Kagehira <Kagehira@aol.com>
Subject: posting WD material

Andy,

	Insofar as posting articles from the White Dwarf to the list or Web I think
you need both the permission of the author of the article (while I've never
had an traveller author no yet, there could always be the first time. And of
course some of them are probably unavailable for contact without a lot of
looking) and the owner of the copyright (in this case GW).

Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 08:50:11 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Demo

> Another nice one appeared in an issue of Challenge. If was kind of a 
> horror-scenario where the ship misjumps and people start acting 
> crazy. It's ideal, because not much is needed as background info, and 
> makes a great campaign starter! If i could only remember the name....
> Ad Astra,

That's an easy one..."Event Horizon".....:)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 08:57:56 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

> -> I'm game for it but don't have a website & consider it unlikely to get
> -> paper publication (although I'd love that).  While the Darmine are about
> Why don't you go to one of the many free web-space-providers, like 
> Geocities (blatant plug for my own page below), or others. Normal Web 
> access is enough and designing a page is easy enough using Navigator 
> Gold or Netscape 4.0.

I use Arachnophilia for all my Web editting.  In my opinion, it's the
best web editting tool out there.  I've used Hot Dog Pro, Cold Fusion,
Microsoft Frontpage 98, HTML Builder, Macromedia's Dreamweaver and even
Word 8.0's HTML facilities, but none are as easy or as functional as
Arachniphilia.  Even better yet, Arachniphilia is FREE.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 98 17:37 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: low-tech ship design

Moin Bruce Alan Macintosh,

> As others have said, settle for *extremely* low acceleration- 0.01 G is 
> fine. Consider using staging - have an initial acceleration starge
> with the fuel and first fusion rocket that drops off before you
> start deccelerating (keep it for all the rest of the trip and face it
> forward to absorb dust impacts.) 

	While in real life double performance means 4 times fuel or energy
	consumption, this is not expressed in FFS rules (I wont think that
	its in FFS2), so the 0.01G does'nt give you the benefit it normaly
	would.

	What about the following idea, use (nearly) all fuel for fusion
	rocket during accelleration and a bussard ram for break. You'll
	perhaps have to break for 100 years but who cares.

> Make the ship big, so a fusion power plant works, and/or ignore the big
> FFS2 fusion power plant minimum sizes. 

	Well a low tech fusion reactor is big, here is our german one :

	Gesamtdurchmesser                15 Meter	diameter
	Höhe                             ca. 4 Meter	height
	Masse                            550 Tonnen	mass
	Großer Plasmaradius              5,5 Meter	great plasma ring
	Mittlerer kleiner Plasmaradius   0,53 Meter	medium plasma coil
	Magnetfeldstärke                 3 Tesla	megnetizing force

	add one techlevel and they know what to do with the energy.

	This reactor is NOT a Tokamak, but a Wendelstein. Its not burning
	Tritium but dotted LHy (with Deuterium, Tritium and Carbon). Its
	the experiment for the large one they currently build in Greifswald,
	which will become a production state reactor, if all went right.

> Remember to carry a couple of my B937 landers so you can get to the
> planetary surface.

	Could you post them ;-)

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 98 18:06 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: misc missile comments

Moin Bruce Alan Macintosh,

> >But as I'm a Brilliant Lances player, even normal missiles are
> >imposible to spot.

> True in BL, but I was sort of assuming one was using my sensor
> rules (which give more reasonable results) and/or some kind of 
> minor BL fix (like adding -1 DM for every 50% closer than short range.)

	Well T4 has KKMs but a broken space combat system. A cumulative
	-1 DM would have to many side effects to BL. A single -1 DM, if the
	target is within half short range, is perhaps possible. This would
	mean for my KKM.

	First Spot of the carrier like missile :
		Imposible
	Second Spot for each of the 6 submissiles :
		Imposible +1 DM (Decoys) -1 DM (Half range) = Imposible
		( which can be compared to using a damper )
	Additionaly I would give an formidable evasion if the vessel
	has 5+ G or a imposible evasion if it has 2+ G.

	Currently my TL:10 submissile has a damage of 1/9-28, so the
	nuclear missile still has its benefits (no evasion, no second
	spot posibility, double damage) So it wont kill the balance,
	which is most important for me.

	My KKM is related to the "disarmament movement" in 1145-1150 Rure.
	Later the Silkku, developed vessels at TL:10-12, and they need
	missiles that their SDBs can compete to a TL:13+ traders of the Nunjki.
	Of course they wont risk the consense of the Moot tabooing nukes
	on board of ships (to avoid that an infected ship nukes a planet),
	so they have to use KKMs.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:11:08 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re(2): All change at IG?

"Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu> writes:
>
>Blaming an individual, even if you believe you've been given the name
>correctly, is rarely a wise move.  I hope Tim isn't catching any touble for
>your post.  Having siad that , individuals are capable of wrecking havok on
>companies, especially small ones.

In my original post I reported what I was told, along with the person (at
IG) who told me.  Possibly James was confused.  (Marc's response would
support this hypothesis.)  But seeing as it was the only response I got
out of IG I decided to pass it along (for what it's worth).

Personally, I think that blaming someone else rather than trying to
satisfy the customer is a shitty way of handling customer service.  But
that's what happened.  (James did promise to send me my books.  They
should have arrived by now.  They haven't.)


>
>
>My question to you is, why order stuff from IG anyway?  


Two reasons.  First, to get the stuff quicker (such was their original
promise).  Second, for the discount.

Neither reason has worked in practice.  Although the Toronto game shops
don't get it very quickly, Fandom II in Ottawa (a mere five hours drive
away) always gets the stuff in right after release.  And their price is
actually cheaper than my discounted price from IG!

Now, while I would be willing to pay a bit more for reasonable delivery, I
see no reason to pay extra for non-delivery.  Hence the formal complaint
to the Attorney General.


As I said, I've been a sucker.  I've let twenty years of enthusiastic
support for Traveller overwhelm my judgement several times.  (This is the
third time I've had trouble with IG. Each time they have claimed that they
were changing the system to ensure that it wouldn't happen again.)  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 12:12:55 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Traveller Demo Scenario

I've run the Shadows adventure several times now, and everyone's enjoyed
it every time.  

I used Classic Traveller rules back when it was first published (1979?),
MegaTraveller rules when I did it as part of my campaign in Ottawa, and
TNE rules when I did it at school.  I also ran it (with different
students) using Star Wars rules and Dream park rules.


I have a set of 25mm floorplans available at:

http://www.interlog.com/~dmci104/GamingClub/Traveller/shadows.html


The last two times I ran the scenario, I prepared by printing these (in
colour) and glueing them to cardboard.  Then, as the party explored the
complex, I just laid out each new room as they go there.  Worked really
well (but took up a lot of table-space!).

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 98 18:38 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Low Passage now safe?

In-Reply-To: <7a555094.34c9800a@aol.com>

CardSharks,

> It is canon breaking, and it shouldn't be. The problem is not seeing
> manuscripts before hand, and not having a discussion with the writers of those
> manuscripts about reassurances that canon won;t be broken. A writer of
> anything Traveller has a responsibility to know what is canon, and if writing
> something that violates that, to discuss it (and get a yes or no) before it is
> printed.
>  
> Marc

Agreed 100%. The question is, how are you going to make sure this happens? IG 
have made it very clear they neither know nor care about canon.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 98 18:38 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Return of Liaison Skill?

In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980123225701.357f43c0@mail.hooked.net>

Douglas,

> >SKILLS LIST
>  
> >x Gun Combat Cascade
> >x Pistol Dex
> >x Rifle Dex
> >x Shotgun Dex
> >x Submachinegun Dex
>  
> I will now take the unusual position (for me, anyway) of lobbying Marc to
> change something.
>  
> Marc, using a firearm is based on your ability to control the weapon as it
> fires.  This is a function of Strength.  Think back to your own days in
> basic.  Remember the emphasis on firm control and proper squeezing of the
> trigger?

Never having fired anything more powerful than an air rifle I'm not really 
qualified to answer, but hey, that's never stopped me in the past...

I assume you're talking about recoil? Wouldn't that only apply to the second 
and subsequent rounds? By the time you feel the recoil from the first shot, 
the bullet has already left the gun, so it'll basically hit where you 
pointed it (which is DEX-based). And what about lasers, or slug throwers 
with negligible recoil?
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 10:30:34 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Guns of the Wild West

In mail you write:

> Warning...utterly off topic post
>
> Leonard said:
>
>> >Oh, I think he just mis-posted. It was actually destined for
>> >rec.humor.funny, but got here instead. Particularly interesting was the
>> >instruction to continue to wash the boiled rotten piss and shit until
>> >the liquid coming off was no longer bitter to the taste.
>> 
>> Actually, it's all true.  Birringuchio's book, Pyrotechnia, is available
>> in reprint from Dover books, and is a good book to buy for historical
>> pespectives...  Actually, I left out the most interesting part...  in
>> Birringuchio, the recipie says to leach until it no longer tastes bitter
>> to YOUR APPRENTICE.  [caps mine].
>
> That reminds me. I once worked as a quality control chemist for Avon (the
> cosmetics people). We tested the raw ingredients in our lab, and every
> different ingredient had a series of tests to do, some on every container, 
> shipment, lot, etc. On of the things we had to test on every lot was the
> refined lanolin, a _taste_ test to make sure it wasn't rancid.
>
>  Now refined lanolin doesn't _quite_ smell like a sheep camp at the end of
> summer, but it's pretty close. Avon had about 6 labs around the world
> doing this testing...we use to spend _lots_ of long distance time calling
> all the other labs to see if someone had tested that lot already...

You have my sympathies. I helped shear sheep once. Since I was
inexperienced, I got then fun job of holding the next sheep (ie they
are shearing one sheep, and I'm holding the one they'll shear next). 

The only paractical way to do this is to straddle the sheep, facing
forward and wrap your arms around its neck. By the end of the day,
lanolin could *easily* be extracted from your clothing. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 98 18:38 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: All change at IG?

In-Reply-To: <34C9B0C0.125E3C70@bu.edu>

Stevie,

> My question to you is, why order stuff from IG anyway?  While geography is
> probably the answer, I would never, ever, ever, order a product sight
> unseen.  Especially RPG materials which are (with very rare exception,
> Traveller sometimes included within that small group), inherently
> unreliable.

In my case, two reasons. First, convenience - it's easier than hunting 
through the shops trying to find them (plus, subscribers to the pre-order 
scheme were supposed to get the books before the shops, although that 
promise soon went out the window). Secondly, and more importantly, I want 
Traveller to succeed. For that to happen, IG must succeed. Ordering direct 
from them means they get more money out of the deal (since there are no 
third parties taking their cut). However, unless things at IG change for the 
better PDQ (a simple "sorry, we'll try harder" would be a good start), I'm 
going to cancel my sub.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 10:59:24 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@m9.sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Return of Liaison Skill?

Not really true.. There is a flinch factor that comes in on every 
shot if you cannot control the weapon (having fired many very high 
powered pistols, I can personally attest to this) ;)

What I have always done is give each weapon a recoil value, and let 
the firer's STR over come it. If you cannot over come it, then you 
gain the bonus of having a -DM on the shot.

Cya

> I assume you're talking about recoil? Wouldn't that only apply to the second 
> and subsequent rounds? By the time you feel the recoil from the first shot, 
> the bullet has already left the gun, so it'll basically hit where you 
> pointed it (which is DEX-based). And what about lasers, or slug throwers 
> with negligible recoil?
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
>  "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"
> 
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com           http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

Thought for the day:
    Advertising (n): the science of arresting the human
    intelligence for long enough to get money from it.
           -- Stephen Leacock.

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 18:50:53 -0000
From: "Del Jones" <dojones@whitestar.u-net.com>
Subject: Re Time of Death for Spacing

I think that the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy
said something about 30 seconds.

Derrick Jones
St Helens
Lancashire UK
dojones@whitestar.u-net.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:01:18 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Missiles

In mail you write:

> Ok.. So I am floating in my pool.. With a long long string attached 
> to a cork. I pull the cork.
>
> Do I float or follow the water? I caused the 'well' to form.

You and the cork move towards each other. And the process of throwing
the cork *forward* again will cause you and the cork to return to the
original positions.

> Also, if I do sit in a metallic object, and throw a magnet ahead of 
> it, why will it not move? The energy cost is high (as TP's should 
> be... and are) but after the magnet hits the ground, I move, as does 
> everything else metal in the area.

Remember, you are in free fall, *not* on a planet.

So, when you throw the magnet forward, you go *backwards*. When you and
the magnet finish atracting each other, you are back where you were
when you threw it.

That's the way the universe *works*. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 10:37:50 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Question: Computers St vs Fb, what is this really?

In mail you write:

> Perhaps this has been discussed to great length before, but I'm new here
> so........
>
> What is a Standard computer made of ? Silicon? Hasn't the engineers come up
> with something better in 3000 years ? The CPU manufacturers already have
> problems with silicon and other solutions are sought (even if it will take a
> while).

Well, barring breakthroughs (which, by their nature we can't foresee or
we'd be doing it *now*), you'll need semiconductors for most
electronics, simply because you have to control electrical current at
some point. Optical and quantum computers are possible, but they'd
still need electronics to couple  them to most systems (just like we
need mechanical items to use electricity to control flows of liquid/gas)

Semiconductors are a pretty restricted set. They have to either be
elements from group IV on the periodic chart, or compounds of Group III
and Group V elements.

Group III: B, Ga, ...
Group  IV: C, Si, Ge, ...
Group   V: N, P, As, ...

GaAs and GaP are being worked with to some extent. But they are
restricted to special uses, partly because they are a bitch to make,
and partly because gallium isn't exactly the most common element.

I've heard talk of research into *diamond* based semiconductors. Those
could be very intertesting if they work at all.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 98 19:04 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: IG delivers (well sort of)

Moin Andrew Moffatt-Vallance,

> Well Yesterday my *long* overdue books from IG finally arrived. Why had
> they been delayed? IG had sent them surface mail! Surface mail takes
> between 3 and 4 months from the US to NZ (so much for IG vaunted promises
> regarding delivery before the shops get them!). Well at least I finally
> got the goods. My question now is, is this delivery method now standard?
> If it is, I'm not buying from IG anymore.

	Well I think it was "sea freight", as there is no land bridge
	between NZ and US. BTW: I'm the programmer of a book importer,
	and we have to tell our customers, that air freight is priceless
	for a single book, and they have to wait 2 weeks for UK, 6 weeks
	for US and 12 weeks for australian/japanes books, under condition
	that the book is available from a wholesaler. Backorder inside
	US adds another 2-6 weeks (FASA is known of 12 weeks for backorder,
	so IG is realy good ;-).

	As we tell'm straight, they can understand and live with that
	fact, even if they are used that a german book takes maximum
	2 days for delivery !

	Perhaps IG should improve message handling, and clarify their
	terms of delivery to customers outside US. Yes I know that this
	is a cost intensive factor, but its necessary if you want that
	a customer buys a second time.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 98 19:16 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Major and Minor Human Races

Moin Volker A. Greimann,

> ->     Kukhun ( 3105 B658997-E ) was seeded by the Ancients with human
> ->     stock around 300,000 years ago. By the time that the Vilani

> ->     had signed up.  In 74 non-Lancians on the strategic world of
> ->     Shiramuunir ( 2507 C444AC8-F ) revolted in defiance of the
> ->     Lancian government, calling for Imperium help to free them from
> ->     Lancian "tyranny".

> In M:0???
> Why didn't they whup the 3I's behind?
> Probably another of the famous reasons why FS is Crap!

	the UWP are the HIWG data for MT, not the M0 data. I would asume
	that they had Vilani technology (TL9-11) in M0.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 98 18:41 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Acceleration and maximum velocity

Moin John R. Snead,

> The MT design sequence, FF&S1 & FF&S2 all had rules for determining the 
> maxmimum velocity (in atmosphere) for a vehicle given X acceleration. Do 
> any of these figures have any basis in fact?

	I recently read through COACC (MT) and their atmos speed is
	certainly broken for low tech planes. Does anybody has a
	comparision for TL:6-8 planes ?

	Comparison :

	COACC Ypress (WW I fighter 2 seats)

		loco 0.25 MW
		cruise 202 km/h, top 270 km/h, minimum speed 150 km/h

	(Real) RAF SE5a (single seat)

		200 hp hispano suiza
	below 5000 feet
		cruise 100 miles/h, top 130 miles/h, takeoff 50 mph.
		maximum dive 280 mph,
	ceiling 22.000 feet.
		cruise  70 mph, top 110 mph, minimum 70 mph.

	And the RAF SE5a was one of the best, double seat figher have been
	slower !

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 09:13:24 -0800
From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <schoon@aimnet.com>
Subject: Re: Return of Liaison Skill?

Douglas E. Berry <dberry@hooked.net> wrote:

>Marc, using a firearm is based on your ability to control the weapon as it
>fires.  This is a function of Strength.  Think back to your own days in
>basic.  Remember the emphasis on firm control and proper squeezing of the
>trigger?

I disagree that what you are describing here is a function of strength. As
I recall, even the little weasely guys at basic had no trouble qualifying
expert.
I think that proper hold of the weapon, eye relief, breathing, and all that
stuff is more related to dexterity. We agree on what proper firing
technique is, but not on the attribute that governs it.

>I am humbly asking that you consider making this change.  I base my idea on
>my own experience as a sniper in the US Army.  I've hit targets out to
>800m, and I'm the original klutz.

We may be talking about two variations of dexterity here, and I'm not sure
that there's an easy way to distinguish the two in T4 terms. There's
physical dexterity (like tripping over your own boots), and manual
dexterity (fine tool manipulation).
Firing weapons, particularly sniper rifles, goes into the second category.
I can see an argument for having Submachine gun as a strength based skill,
because the primary limitation to accuracy is controlling the recoil, but
for single shots...

I don't want to start a "I have better credentials than you" war - so let's
just say I have experience as well.


Schoon

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:31:21 -0800
From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <schoon@aimnet.com>
Subject: Q: Zhodani Ship Configuration (?)

I'd like some opinions.

Most of us should be familiar with the typified Zhodani ship shape: the one
made popular by FASA, which has appeared on various Imperial unit logos
(usually in the center of crosshairs). Just in case, it's a small diamond
on the end of a long neck, with an oblong main hull shape (the picture is a
much better reference).

My question is what hull configuration it would fall under. I'm torn
between wedge and medium or long rounded cylinders, but then again it might
also qualify as some other shape.

Schoon

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 19:37:29 GMT
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Starports in White Dwarf 43

I have just spent a happy couple of hours rummaging through my White 
Dwarf collection and reading Tomas Price's article on Startports.  The 
overall sizes that Price proposes are broadly similar to those that I 
estimated in my posting to the TML in October.

Here is a quick run down:
Price                                    Early
A	3 runways (5 km x 1 km) 
        600 berths		         1200 berths
	40 sq miles		         60 sq miles
	60 Naval berths
B	2 runways (5 km x 1 km)
        200 berths
	20 sq miles
	10 scout berths
C	1 runway (5 km x 1 km)
        75 berths
	10 sq miles
	10 scout berths
D	1 runway (5 km x 1 km) 
        20 berths
	8 sq miles
	19 scout berths
E	1 runway (5 km x 1 km)
	No berths		       6 berths
	3 sq miles		       0.5 sq miles
	10 scout berths

As others have said, the wide-scale use of conta-grav and T-plates 
means that the runways are unlikely to be used by starships (Price 
argued in the days of Classic Traveller that fusion-powered starships 
used lots of reaction mass if they were to "land on their tails", and 
that gliding in like the shuttle would save 9 T of fuel for a 100 T 
scout).  However, for some referees the use of runways will be 
appropriate for both starships and in-system traffic.


Simon

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #36
*********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Saturday, January 24 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 037



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Games Day 80 ... some old notes
Re: [TTL] Hull Paint
Re: All change at IG?
Re: Trav List:  pictures from the first interstellar war
Re: Return of Liaison Skill?
Re: Return of Liaison Skill?
Re: Survival Still
Re: Lifeboats
Re: conservation of momentum
Re: Lifeboats
Re: the missile debate (interminable but moving to TTL)
Re: Low Passage now safe?
Re: Return of Liaison Skill?
Disk crash lost mail
Low Berth Safety
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Re Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 19:37:33 GMT
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Games Day 80 ... some old notes

While rummaging, I also came across my notes from Marc Miller's 
seminars at games Day in the UK (1980, I think).
==========

Systems may (will) contain secondary (and tertiary) planets with 
people, starports, minerals and so on.  The UPP refers only to the 
major planet in the system.  Population usually refers to the total 
number of intelligent beings there - normally all oxygen breathers.  
The "Start Wars" cantina scene contains only creatures that fit into 
this band - all can be talked to and all breathe the same air.

<I missed the question>  … a world where the TL equivalent is achieved 
by bio-engineered objects (computers, beds, cars (?),  etc.).

Communications between different races is not covered in Traveller 
because it assumes the widespread availability and usage of mechanical 
and electronic translator units.  If you encounter a very unusual 
language, or lose your translator, then all sorts of problems could 
ensue.

The Imperium derives much of its income from corporation taxation 
(being easy to impose) and holdings in many (mega) corporations.  8% of 
LSP is a lot!

A meagcorporporation is defined as one so large that the right hand 
doesn't know what the left hand is doing.  For example, a particular 
section of a mega may decide that it would be nice to control a certain 
planet.  They decide to hire mercenaries to take over, but they do not 
realise that a company already owns stock in the current owners of the 
plant (themselves a reasonably-sized company). And that this company is 
wholly controlled by another part of the same megacorporation.  To 
check with every part of the corporation about a particular decision 
would take several years because the corporation has such widespread 
interests.

Planet-based computer systems will hold data on a sub-sector wide 
basis.  Sub-sector capitals will hold data on a sector-wide basis.  
Sector capitals will have information covering many sectors (the 
surrounding eight, and possibly further afield).

Being an ex-member of the Imperial forces gives no benefits with 
respect to access to official computer records (they have no sure way 
of proving who you are unless you were discharged within the 
sub-sector).  If you are able to contact a friend however …
Scouts have a complex (and difficult to falsify) ID that gives them 
access as detached duty scouts.  If the ID is lost, you must return to 
the world of your discharge to prove your identity and have the ID 
re-issued.

Starports have many parallel with modern airports (e.g. it is not 
illegal to have drugs, just to try and take them through customs.  This 
is the real meaning of extra-territoriality).  Starports are usually 
controlled by the locals, if they are of high enough TL.

It may be amusing for some people to be allergic to (or develop 
allergies to) anagathics.

Andory and Candory/Five Sisters are Droyne worlds - that is why they 
are interdicted.

The TL of a plant is only a generalisation.  Various developments may 
be different.  America is TL 8 but does not have air/raft or common 
fusion but does have advanced computers and a very high average wealth; 
Uganda is TL 2-3 but has radar (TL 5) and jets (TL 6-7) and the trained 
personnel to operate them.

In-system jumps are possible, but still take a week.

There is no racial or sexual bias amongst Imperial citizens 
(theoretically).

Zho's hate Imp's.  Imp's hate Zho's.  Sol's (secretly) hate Imp's, but 
the Imperium is too big so the Sol's hate Aslan.  Aslan like Imp's 
because the Sol's hate them (!).  Vargr hate Imp's (and some Vargr hate 
Zho's).  Centaurs hate Vargr.  Vargr hate Centaurs.  Hivers are too 
nice and recluse to hate or be hated.

System defence generally consists of 1 to 5 squadrons.  Each squadron 
bay be 2 to 8 large ships (10,000 to 50,000 T) with appropriate support 
ships, or several hundred (sometines several thousand) 400-ton SDB's..

System Defence boat strategy is well understood.  SDB's are well armed 
and armoured and if they should be defeated in fleet action, the 
survivors are ideally suited to guerrilla warfare - hiding in oceans, 
resupply at hidden caches on moons or in pre-arranged orbits, waiting 
at the bottom of the gravity well of a gas giant (when refuelling ships 
are at their weakest), refuelling from ice fields on moons, etc.

There are stars in "empty" hexes, but as they have no (useful) planets 
they are not shown on the standard map.

When a vessel jumps it initially uses a large amount of fuel very 
rapidly (at low efficiency) to charge up capacitors to very high levels 
(that can only be held for short periods of time).  This energy then 
"flashes" the ship into jumpspace where a small continuing fuel usage 
keeps the jump field up.
Improved capacitors now allow the charge to be held long enough (a few 
minutes) for L-Hyd tanks to be usable .. but not tankers yet!
Returning to normal space (to a lower potential) gives back the large 
amount of energy initially used.  This must be lost rapidly by the use 
of energy sinks or it can be a source of trouble (being flicked back 
into jump is embarrassing if you have no fuel to maintain the jump 
field for a week).

Power plants can produce more energy than "normal", by being run as if 
jump is being prepared for - a lot more energy from vastly more fuel 
use - and this can be used to power weapons.

790-800 saw the Imperial suppression of psionics (the rest not repeated 
here as this information has been repeated often - including T4 Psionic 
Institutes).

The usual forms of government used in Traveller are:

Republic - normal "capital" rule.  Normally, a planet is the largest 
form of republic

Federation - fairly tight organisation of republics with one capital.  
There is limited autonomy for members, sufficient to handle local laws 
(no parking tickets on empty worlds; strict water pollution laws on a 
water world; etc.).  Several planets in a system up to several systems 
can form a federation.

Confederation - a larger but looser form than the federation.  Trade 
between members is encouraged and there are likely to be import 
restrictions on goods from outside the confederation.  Confederations 
usually span no more than a sub-sector.

Empire - the largest and loosest form of government.  Member states 
have great autonomy (that is why there is the ruling nobility - to make 
executive decisions).  The Emperor and his forces provide protection 
for the spacelanes and general guidance.  An unfit Emperor is usually 
assassinated.

Postal union - allowing the free trade of post hurts no-one and 
benefits all and is common between all empires, confederations, etc.

The benfits of Empire may not be great to a corporate-owned planet 
(since the Empire will not usually undertake system defence and 
corporation taxes generally exceed the cost of a space Navy).  
Mega-corps have little choice in paying taxes unless ownership is 
covert - profits are not declared or are used to develop unknown wolrds 
(outside the Imperium).

Tariffs prevent/inhibit the import of unwanted goods, normally for 
commercial reasons.  They protect local interests and promote the 
improvement of local tech level.

The Zhodani "thought police" are really Morality Guardians and liked by 
the populace, who treat them with the same respect that doctors get - 
they cure you when you are unhappy with the Zhodani Consulate.


Simon

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 14:56:17 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: [TTL] Hull Paint

Richard A. Flores writes:

>>>This, of course, is wrong. What would be a better way of handling this? I
>>>think that a percentage based system would be better - single color hulls
>>>are 90% the cost of regular, plain hulls are 80%, etc... What do you think
>>>of that? And what should the percentages be (I offered the above only as
>>>examples...)
>>
>>   Excellent suggestions for handling the problem.  I do have one question
>>though, why in the hell would anyone allow a starship out of the
>>construction dock without any paint?  The benefits of painting a hull seem
>>so obvious to me that I can't even imagine why you wouldn't.
>
>I can think of a couple.  Besides cost (1), you might want that nice shiny
>hull to be visible (2).  Some boats and ships should be highly visible (like
>life-boats).

   This assumes that bare metal superdense, what hulls are made out of
at TL 12, is shiny (can't say that's ever been stated), and that the
inital cost savings isn't lost over time because of the increased
maintenance costs involved.  My assumption has always been that
spacecraft 'paint' isn't just paint--it would contain anti-corrosive
agents that give the ship protection against damage from exposure to
water, methane, ammonia, certain other chemicals found in tainted
atmospheres, and even retard the damage caused by exotic, and other
extreme atmospheric gas types.  There would also be some sort of under
coat or even a glaze applied after the paint that reduces (or at high
TLs) the damage caused by micrometeors.

   Ultimately then, the trade off would be smaller initial cost up front
versus significantly shorter hull life.  While long hull life is perhaps
not important in the case of emergency lifeboats or wartime expedient
hulls, but for practically everyone else *crucial* IMHO.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 14:56:30 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: All change at IG?

Volker A. Greimann writes:

>- -> << the chap I talked to (James) said that the
>- ->  chap in Wisconsin doing the shipping (Tim Brown) was the one making the
>- ->  mistakes,  >>
>- -> 
>- -> I don't believe that (Tim) is making the mistakes. 
>- -> 
>- -> Marc
>But *Someone* seems to be making these mistakes and lots of them, and 
>all the ones that they happen to are on the TML.

   What **we** know of--there's no telling how many people who are not
members of this list are having problems--could be more, could be less. 
IMHO, it's probably about the same.  I don't think the people at IG have
it in for TMLers.

>I agree that pointing fingers doesn't help, but the present situation is 
>unacceptable!

   Unfortunately that's exactly what the individual from IG did.  Was he
lying to make IG look better?  I don't know, but if I were Tim, and IG
made a habit of blaming him for their company problems, I would have a
*major* issue with it.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 14:56:39 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Trav List:  pictures from the first interstellar war

Richard writes: 

>hello every one...  it's been awhile since i posted on this list...  but i
>need help on a picture i am working on...  here's hte concept;  there are
>ambassadors from the major space going Terran nations (pre-Terran
>Confederation:  Germany, Great Britain, France, Japan, America, Ukriane and
>Russia) meting with the Vilani ambassadors.  I need to know how each of the
>ambassadors will work together... ie who would be hostile and who would try
>and keep the peace....

   Let's assume that you are the leader of a country that has a gross
domestic product equal to about a quarter of the world total.  That
makes you a major player on that planet.  Now, let's say that you are
faced with a potential enemy that has over 11,000 worlds, hundreds of
which have a higher GDP than your entire planet.  If you lose a war
against the potential enemy, you will be *absorbed*, your culture erased
and your people forced to live under the boot of an interstellar empire
which isn't above genocide in meeting "corporate goals" (or so your
translators tell you).

   Are you going to allow petty squabblings that have pretty much been
resolved to cause the downfall of your civilization?

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:58:06 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Return of Liaison Skill?

At 02:13 PM 1/24/98 MET, you wrote:

>-> Marc, using a firearm is based on your ability to control the weapon as
>->it fires.  This is a function of Strength.  Think back to your own days in
>-> basic.  Remember the emphasis on firm control and proper squeezing of the
>-> trigger?

>However, I would suggest keeping the Dex, since for *Aiming*, and 
>*Firing*, dexterity (how to hold the rifle, direct the gun at your 
>target, how to squeeze the trigger) seems much more appropriate. 

However, keeping the weapon on target as a small explosion goes off inches
from your head, and a couple of grams of lead flies out the barrel is a
function of strength.  No matter how carefully you sight in, if you can't
keep control of that wepaon at the moment of firing, it's all for naught.

My early shooting experience was with the M-16A1.. a 5.56mm rifle that has
almost no recoil.  It required a good solid grip to hit anything.


- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 12:00:57 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Return of Liaison Skill?

At 06:38 PM 1/24/98 GMT0, Andrew wrote:

>I assume you're talking about recoil? Wouldn't that only apply to the second 
>and subsequent rounds? By the time you feel the recoil from the first shot, 
>the bullet has already left the gun, so it'll basically hit where you 
>pointed it (which is DEX-based). And what about lasers, or slug throwers 
>with negligible recoil?

Pointing the gun at something is certainly a DEX task.  Making sure the
barrel doesn't move a quarter-inch (throwing the strike off by 3 feet at
100 meters) is a function of strength.  This is true of every weapon I've
ever fired, from .22 pistols through the .50cal Sniper Rifle.

- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:22:07 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Survival Still

In mail you write:

> Does anyone know how much the Survival Still-11 (CSC p 30) uses?

How much *what*?

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:23:50 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Lifeboats

In mail you write:

>         But now (1203) I dont know how to bring them to M0, the low
>         berth does'nt work in this situation ;-( Perhaps I should use
>         the wave ;-)

No, just use a misjump. Since FTL violates the *same* laws of physics
that time travel does, allowing a misjump to move you thru time is not
unreasonable. 

BTW, if they compare their charts with the M0 charts, they'll have to
conclude that they've come out in a *different* universe, as the stars
don't match. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:31:02 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: conservation of momentum

In mail you write:

> I like this one best of all.  I don't need to grab anything or throw any
> thing or use ropes or wagons or metal objects or magnets or anything.  I'll
> set on your proposed rubber sheet and reach out my hand and press down on
> it.  Since it is perfectly frictionless, I'll slide into the dimple I've
> made.  Then I pull my hand out from under me and press down again.  I'll
> keep pressing down until I get to where I'm going.  (In the audience, hands
> clap as I wave the one that brought me here.)

Nice try. But if you are pushing down on the sheet in "front" of you,
you are *lessening* the push your ship makes. Also, you *won't* fall
into the dimple, as you are creating it a *fixed* distance in front of
you (the length of your arm). To get closer to it, you'd have to pull
in your arm. 

And it takes work (energy) both to make the dimple, and to pull in your
arm while maintaining the dimple. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:26:58 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Lifeboats

In mail you write:

> I played in a campaign once where no-one could figure out how the ship's
> medic/steward was feeding us so cheaply. Until we noticed the low berths
> were getting more and more empty through the weeks in jump...

Was his name Sweeeney Todd?

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:13:15 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: the missile debate (interminable but moving to TTL)

In mail, traveller@mpgn.com writes:

>>>Sam of the "Jeune Ecole" wrote
>>Jeune Ecole???
> Early-20th-century school of naval thought (mostly in France) that
> thought the torpedo had become the dominant weapon in naval combat
> and that battleships were obsolete. Somehow your doctrine reminds me
> of them :-). (History hasn't really decided if they were right, wrong,
> or just premature.)

Literally "young school".

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 14:07:06 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Low Passage now safe?

Marc wrote:

>It ["no risk" low passage] is canon breaking, and it shouldn't be. 
>The problem is not seeing manuscripts before hand, and not having a 
>discussion with the writers of those manuscripts about reassurances 
>that canon won;t be broken. A writer of anything Traveller has a 
>responsibility to know what is canon, and if writing something that 
>violates that, to discuss it (and get a yes or no) before it is printed.

From this can we assume that the bonus for sick bays applies to 
everything but cryosuspension revival?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 15:08:01 EST
From: TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Return of Liaison Skill?

Marc wrote:
>>SKILLS LIST
>>
>>x	Gun Combat	Cascade
>>x	Pistol	Dex
>>x	Rifle	Dex
>>x	Shotgun	Dex
>>x	Submachinegun	Dex
>
Doug wrote:

>I will now take the unusual position (for me, anyway) of lobbying Marc to
>
>change something.
>
>Marc, using a firearm is based on your ability to control the weapon as it
>fires.  This is a function of Strength.  Think back to your own days in
>basic.  Remember the emphasis on firm control and proper squeezing of the
>trigger?
>
>I am humbly asking that you consider making this change.  I base my idea on
>my own experience as a sniper in the US Army.  I've hit targets out to
>800m, and I'm the original klutz.

    I think that strength is a very minor part, at least w/ the M16A2 and the
M9, but is necessary w/ the 240 MGs (G and E) keeping the machine gun from
kicking your ass.  And the .50 cal is just getting in that proper position.
You couldn't muscle that one if u wanted to.  (All Marines fire out to 500m w/
the M16... i can't remember what the rangers were the MGs and MK19) I don't
know bout the US Army, but the USMC always taught me to not "muscle" the
weapon.  The recoil is gonna be there and there's not much u can do about it.
You want control over your weapon of course. It also worthy to note that one
is supposed to "squeeze" the trigger than than "pull" the trigger.  STR would
tell me "pulling" was going on rather than "squeezing, " but it could be just
semantics to some people... ; ) One of the detractions about going burst w/
the M16, your aim goes all to hell.   Even Heavy Weapons (assuming this
contains Grenade Launchers as it did for TNE)... I didn't even notice the 203.
The hardest part for me was estimating where it was going to land. Maybe i
wasn't paying attn or something but i thought that damned quadrant sight was
next to useless.  Maybe INT?  ; ) 
    Anyways... I like AGL... i mean DEX ; )  for slug pistols and rifles.

Gary

No... i do like AGL! : P

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 09:24:02 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Disk crash lost mail

Could anybody who sent me mail in the last 12 hours please resend it
I have just sufferred a system crash and lost a fair number of incoming
messages before I got a chance to read them.

Thank you very much

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm (general)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/abuse/abuse.htm (sexual abuse pages)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/traveller.htm (Traveller pages)

****************************************************************************
We're digging a hole in the road, you can't go up, you can't go down
you'll have to wait to drive around
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 13:22:55 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Low Berth Safety

Actually, low berths have not always been that dangerous.  The article on 
suspended animation in Traveller's Digest # 21 went into great detail 
about this, talking about how low berth travel became much safer by TL 11.

In their rules, it was possible to simply pop someone out of a low berth
without knowing anything about medicine.  This was quite risky (a
difficult task).  However, a trained starship medic who does the proper
systems checks reduces this to a routine task (which with Med-2 and a 
normal EDU resulted in success on a 4+).  In addition, failure simply 
meant rolling on the task system failure table which usually mention 
minor damage to the individual being revived, death was impossible 
unless the systems checks were not performed.  

This always made much more sense to me.  Except for emergency low berths
in lifeboats *no one* would use something which killed you even 1/12th of
the time you used it.  This is little better than Russian roulette, and I
don't see *that* being terribly popular.  Having a serious risk of death
every time you used a low berth always made little sense to me as a
sensible thing to have in a thriving high-tech civilization.  During the 
Long Night or in the Virus era I can see folks regularly taking such risks, 
but not in the Imperium.  

In the Digest Group version low berths wouldn't be terribly popular
because it was uncomfortable and could give the user hangover-like
symptoms or even frostbite.  It's not terribly dangerous, but it's fairly
unpleasant.  Therefore, it would remain the travel choice of the very poor
only, which is what we want. 

(Still mouring Digest Group)


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 98 21:25 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

In-Reply-To: <34de6791.37268868@mail.direct.ca>

James,

> (Doug Berry and) I were wondering if anyone could care to speculate on the
> time it would take for an average individual to die once exposed to a
> vacuum?

(From the sci.space FAQ:)

HOW LONG CAN A HUMAN LIVE UNPROTECTED IN SPACE 

If you *don't* try to hold your breath, exposure to space for half a 
minute or so is unlikely to produce permanent injury. Holding your 
breath is likely to damage your lungs, something scuba divers have to 
watch out for when ascending, and you'll have eardrum trouble if your 
Eustachian tubes are badly plugged up, but theory predicts -- and animal 
experiments confirm -- that otherwise, exposure to vacuum causes no 
immediate injury. You do not explode. Your blood does not boil. You do 
not freeze. You do not instantly lose consciousness. 

Various minor problems (sunburn, possibly "the bends", certainly some 
[mild, reversible, painless] swelling of skin and underlying tissue) 
start after ten seconds or so. At some point you lose consciousness from 
lack of oxygen. Injuries accumulate. After perhaps one or two minutes, 
you're dying. The limits are not really known. 
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 98 21:25 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

In-Reply-To: <3f3c186a.34ca0acb@aol.com>

CardSharks,

> This is based on the T4.1 hit system (abridged pertinent version below). By my
> reading, the average guy will survive 42 seconds before unconsciousness and be
> dead in about 2 minutes.

Too fast. I'm *extremely* unfit, but I can hold my breath for longer than 42 
seconds without passing out, and some people can manage 2-3 minutes. I suggest 
you double these (ie 1 pt every other round).

> Now AC Clarke wrote a story once that covered a mass transfer of (space
> miners) from one stricken ship to another without space suits (there weren't
> enough to go round). I don't remember his time for survival, and the
> characters weren't explosive decompressed (and were ready for the crisis).

And don't forget Bowman getting back aboard Discovery in 2001.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:29:52 EST
From: TDRandall <TDRandall@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Re Time of Death for Spacing

In a message dated 98-01-24 14:05:38 EST, you write:

<< I think that the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy
 said something about 30 seconds.
  >>
I don't know the answer either, but I question your choice of reference books

:-)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 15:36:14 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

James Lindsay <jlindsay@direct.ca> wrote:

>(Doug Berry and) I were wondering if anyone could care to speculate on the
>time it would take for an average individual to die once exposed to a
>vacuum?  I'm sure clothing and preparation might help but I/we don't want
>to get too technical.  Such a character could find himself exposed to a
>vacuum after a major vacc suit tear (assume no patches) or by being blown
>out into space (a la: Spacing).
>
>So, how long would the poor bastard survive before being considered
>"clinically dead"?

It is generally understood that even explosive decompression will not cause
the human body to explode.  The eyes might pop out if not closed, but the
body will not explode.

Surface (skin) bruising will begin almost immediately.  Holding  your breath
is impossible and IIRC, one of the worst things you can try to do.  If you
hyperventilated before exiting and exhaled as much air as possible
before/during initial exposure to vacuum, I believe that you could retain
consciousness for as much as 5 or 6 minutes.  Shortly after loosing
consciousness, your heart would stop beating (the most common definition
of "clinical death").

The vacuum exposure victim, would probably be resuscitatable for several
minutes beyond the point of clinical death, however, the longer you go
without oxygen, the greater your chance of irrecoverable brain damage and
the longer your recovery time will be (if you loose consciousness or not).

I believe that this is one of the "done to death questions".  The responses
of others are available at:
http://www.spirit.com.au/~jamesd/tml-faq.html#Q5.4-Vacuum

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 15:52:17 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography

Stevie D (aka Bloo) <blueboy@bu.edu> wrote:


>Andrew Boulton wrote:
>
>> In-Reply-To: <34C80E59.50212985@bu.edu>
>>
>> Stevie,
>>
>> > > I think Bryan Borich intended to talk to GW about the IISS Ship Files
and
>> > > other items, and he may have more up to date info on a wider
picture - what
>> > > say, Bryan? Anyone?
>> >
>> >   Asking for permission is definitely the right way to go.  But it may
not be
>> > absolutely necessary.  Uh . . .  I was going to make some long and
complicated
>> > copyright arguments about why they wouldn't win a case if they sued
you, but
>> > you're right in the end.  Keep 'em happy.  Ask nicely.  And let your
forehead
>> > touch the ground as you bow.  (Thats for humor and not a arcastic
comment.  I
>> > 'd really love to enlighten you all on copyright law in the US, and
even the
>> > EU, but I'm tired and it would basically be pointless anyway.)
>>
>> Of course, there are those who consider GW to be scum-sucking lowlifes,
the
>> enemy of all roleplayers, and who would welcome any blow, however small,
against
>> the chaos-death-spiky ones...
>
>In that case, get your advice now, while I'm still a student and prohibited by law
>from giving legal assitance in any official fashion.  Its free.  Once July comes
>though, I'm obligated by law to leech as much money out of all parties as possible.
>Lucifer commands.
>

Hey Bloo,

Send it on (if not publicly the privately at:  cybernot@GTE.net ), I for one
am genuinely interested in what they teach in Law School on the subject.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #37
*********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Saturday, January 24 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 038



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy
Acceleration and velocity
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Decompression/T4.1 Hit System
Re: Traveller Demo
re:low-tech ship design
Re: Traveller Demo Scenario
[none]
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Low Berth Safety (fwd)
Re: Lifeboats
Re: Traveller Demo Scenario
Re: All change at IG?
Re: Starports in White Dwarf 43
Re: [TTL] Hull Paint
Re: Survival Still

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 14:16:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

> Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 01:13:57 -0900
> From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
> 
> "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net> wrote
> 
> > *sigh*  Forever in my brother's shadow.  IIRC, I was the one who first
> > proposed the Templars
> 
> Doug I was only trying to save you from a Templar hit squad by not
> alerting people to your behavior, sorry if I did not give you your due.

Douglas never has been one to quit while he was ahead... :)

> > The Templars continued in secret, always with the twin goals of defending
> > humanity from the return of the Elder Ones, and bringing about space flight.
> > In the Classic Era, they are carefully working behind the scenes to allow
> > them access to Five Sister's Subsector and it's treasure, the homeworld of
> > the Ancients!
> 
> How does this aspect of the Templar Traveller fit in with Marc Millers
> comment/sacred revelation to the list that the Ancient homeworld was
> actually in the Regina Subsector ?

Disinformation, pure and simple.  Or -- if you prefer -- the Ancients kept
there most dangerous/interesting experiments a comfortable three and a bit
subsectors away, down in Five Sisters, and hence that's the important
prize.  Or perhaps there's another explanation...or perhaps not.  It
rains.  Fnord. 

> Is there something even better in the Five Sisters Subsector, like the
> mystical center of the universe perhaps, or was Marc just publishing
> disinformation to save us from information we are not meant to know....
> [Maybe this is why T4.1 is running late, because Marc has to fit in
> writing in between saving the universe.]

You should really learn to quit when *you* are ahead, Frater...er, friend. 

M C of the U pretty much sums it up.  All races feel a tug toward the
Marches, and Five Sisters in particular.  It pulled the C-Jammer across
a ludicrous distance in *realspace* (!), only to fall mere parsecs short
of the goal; it dragged the Third Imperium out on a long arm of
colonization beyond their natural borders; it beckoned the Aslan Ihatei
across the Rift; it made the peaceable Zhodani willing to initiate
hostilities in order to get closer; it called Vargr corsairs deep into
Imperial space to their doom.  The TNE Regency succeeded in holding off
Virus largely because it included Five Sisters, and the Templars seriously
distrust machine intelligences (another long story there).

Across the unreverberant void of limitless space, the Call of Candory
wails its siren song...

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 14:46:07 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Acceleration and velocity

>Given that FF&S2 now states that contragrav has a max forward acceleration
>of 0.16 Gs.

The "Max forward acceleration" for contragrav in FFS2 is one of those
things that seemed like a good idea at the time, but should probably
be ignored - it (as you note) makes fast vehicles impossible, and is
hard to make fit with various other aspects of the game.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 14:36:07 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

> > This is based on the T4.1 hit system (abridged pertinent version below). By my
> > reading, the average guy will survive 42 seconds before unconsciousness and be
> > dead in about 2 minutes.
> 
> Too fast. I'm *extremely* unfit, but I can hold my breath for longer than 42 
> seconds without passing out, and some people can manage 2-3 minutes. I suggest 
> you double these (ie 1 pt every other round).

I do no excersizing at all and live a very sedementary lifestyle.  I've
had 2 hours of sleep today and am weak from it.  I just timed myself for
holding my breath and went for 1:30:49ths.  I think I can go longer if I
really try.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 14:37:54 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

> lack of oxygen. Injuries accumulate. After perhaps one or two minutes, 
> you're dying. The limits are not really known. 
> __________

I say we load Bill Gates up on the next shuttle and find out!  :)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 17:54:39 -0500 (EST)
From: neo@total.net (Glenn Grant)
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

Geoff Landis posted the following very useful info on sci.space.tech in
1996; I posted this stuff on the TML about a year ago, but since the topic
of vacuum exposure has cropped up again, here it is again.

Glenn Grant
- ------------

From: "Geoffrey A. Landis" <geoffrey.landis@lerc.nasa.gov>
Newsgroups: sci.space.tech,rec.arts.sf.science
Subject: Re: Survival in a Vaccuum
Date: 2 Aug 1996 13:32:31 GMT
Organization: Ohio Aerospace Institute

Every six months this question gets asked.  Consult the sci.space FAQ;
it's discussed in great detail there.

Briefly, survival in vacuum is probably possible for a minute or so. 
Consciousness will go away much more rapidly than that.

 from _Bioastronautics Data Book_, Second edition, NASA SP-3006, edited
by James F. Parker and Vita R. West, 1973, in the article "Chapter 1:
Barometric Pressure," by Charles E. Billings:

page 5, (following a general discussion of low pressures and ebullism):
[on decompression to vacuum] "Some degree of consciousness will probably
be retained for 9 to 11 seconds (see chapter 2 under Hypoxia).  In rapid
sequence thereafter, paralysis will be followed by generalized
convulsions and paralysis once again.  During this time, water vapor will
form rapidly in the soft tissues and somewhat less rapidly in the venous
blood.  This evolution of water vapor will cause marked swelling of the
body to perhaps twice its normal volume unless it is restrained by a
pressure suit.  (It has been demonstrated that a properly fitted elastic
garment can entirely prevent ebullism at pressures as low as 15 mm Hg
absolute [Webb, 1969, 1970].)  Heart rate may rise initially, but will
fall rapidly thereafter.  Arterial blood pressure will also fall over a
period of 30 to 60 seconds,  while venous pressure rises due to
distention of the venous system by gas and vapor.  Venous pressure will
meet or exceed arterial pressure within one minute.  There will be
virtually no effective circulation of blood.  After an initial rush of
gas from the lungs during decompression, gas and water vapor will
continue to flow outward through the airways.  This continual evaporation
of water will cool the mouth and nose to near-freezing temperatures; the
remainder of the body will also become cooled, but more slowly.

"Cook and Bancroft (1966) reported occasional deaths of animals due to
fibrillation of the heart during the first minute of exposure to near
vacuum conditions.  Ordinarily, however, survival was the rule if
recompression occurred within about 90 seconds. ... Once heart action
ceased, death was inevitable, despite attempts at resuscitation....
[on recompression] Breathing usually began spontaneously... Neurological
problems, including blindness and other defects in vision, were common
after exposures (see problems due to evolved gas), but usually
disappeared fairly rapidly.

"It is very unlikely that a human suddenly exposed to a vacuum would have
more than 5 to 10 seconds to help himself.  If immediate help is at hand,
although one"s appearance and condition will be grave, it is reasonable
to assume that recompression to a tolerable pressure (200 mm Hg, 3.8
psia) within 60 to 90 seconds could result in survival, and possibly in
rather rapid recovery."

____________________________________________
Geoffrey A. Landis,
Ohio Aerospace Institute at NASA Lewis Research Center
physicist and part-time science fiction writer
==================================

>From: GLANDIS@LERC.NASA.GOV (Geoffrey A. Landis)
>Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.science
>Subject: Re: Effects of Explosive Decompression
>
>The subject of explosive decompression comes up so often on sci.space.tech
that I've decided to keep a file on the suject.  In brief, if you keep your
mouth *wide* open to avoid rupturing your lungs, you can expect to stay
conscious in complete vacuum for ten to twenty seconds.  If you are
recompressed within one to two minutes, you will probably survive the
experience.  In short, Clarke (in _2001_) seens to have gotten it about
right, since Bowman manages to close the airlock in the ten seconds of
consciousness he has available..

[snippage]

>Among other things, it has the only published discussion I've ever seen of
the JSC (well, it was MSC then) suit technician who spent 20 seconds in
vacuum in Dec 1966 when a suit umbilical came loose during a vacuum- chamber
test.  The pressure drop was slowed somewhat by the remaining section of
hose, so it wasn't fast enough to cause lung damage.  He passed out,
presumably from anoxia, after 12-15s.  Pressure began to be restored at 20s
and was well up at 27s, at about which time he regained consciousness.  He
was apparently uninjured, and aftereffects were minor and temporary.
>
>Henry Spencer comments:

>>Ebullism (Precious Bodily Fluids vaporize at body temperature):
>"Small pockets of gas can be detected beneath the skin within two to three
seconds after exposure ..."

>"Gas evolution can also be detected in the abdominal cavity after seven to
ten seconds, and within the heart and great vessels after about twenty 
 seconds."

>Roth says that vapor bubbles form in the bloodstream essentially
instantaneously delays under 1s but initially are not serious enough to 
 stop circulation.  Eventually they are.  Worse, these bubbles begin as water
vapor, but then they start to pick up dissolved gases from the blood... and
while the water vapor will condense out almost instantaneously on
repressurization, the gases redissolve much more slowly, and the resulting
long-lived bubbles are potentially a very serious threat.  There are medical
countermeasures, which Roth discusses, but most of them unfortunately rely
on gravity (for example, a well-chosen prone position on one side at about 
a 30-degree head-down slope keeps bubbles in the heart away from the valves
and gives time for the bubbles to dissolve or be dealt with medically).

>Gregory Bennett adds:

>Incidentally, we have had one experience with a suit puncture on the
Shuttle flights.  On STS-37, during one of my flight experiments, the palm
restraint in one of the astronaut's gloves came loose and migrated until 
it punch a hole in the pressure bladder between his thumb and forefinger. It
was explosive decompression, just a little 1/8 inch hole, but it was
exciting down here in the swamp because it was the first injury we've ever
had from a suit incident.  Amazingly, the astronaut in question didn't 
even know the puncture had occured; he was so hopped on adrenalin it wasn't
until after he got back in that he even noticed there was a painful red
mark on his hand.  He figured his glove was chafing and didn't worry about
it.

>The whole story didn't come out until the suits were back home and a suit
technician was setting up to clean that glove; he discovered the dried blood
on the outer TMG (thermal micrometeoroid garment) and then found the wayward
palm restraint bar.  What happened: when the metal bar punctured the glove,
the skin of the astronaut's hand partially sealed the opening.  He bled 
into space, and at the same time his coagulating blood sealed the opening
enough that the bar was retained inside the hole. 

>The best estimate we've been able to get from the flight surgeons about 
 how long an astronaut might survive a catastrophic suit failure is
"several tens of seconds to very few minutes" with almost certainty for
detectable permanent damage.

    -----------------------Glenn Grant-----------------------  
                         <neo@total.net>
    Web: <http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/ggrant.html>
        "...a starship, a robot, two sex toys, and a gun:
      the raw, heady essence of interstellar civilization."
                        --Kenji Schwarz

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 17:54:49 -0500 (EST)
From: neo@total.net (Glenn Grant)
Subject: Re: Decompression/T4.1 Hit System

Marc said,

>A character who is spaced (explosive decompression) or exposed to vacuum
>suffers:
>
>Decompression
>        The environment for the character (vac suit, building, vehicle) loses
>pressure.
>        Slow Leak. Suffocate-1 per hour.
>        Major Leak. Suffocate-1 per ten minutes.
>        Explosive Decompression. Suffocate-1 per combat round.
[snip]
>Special Injury and Effects
>        Suffocate is applied to Intelligence (instead of the three physical
>characteristics). When Intelligence is reduced to zero, the character is
>unconscious. When Suffocate equal to twice Intelligence are  received, the
>character is in a coma; when Suffocate equal to three times Intelligence, the
>character is dead.

Interesting use of Intelligence as hit points. Makes sense to me, as
survival is going to depend on keeping your cool.

You might want to include some Cold Hits, perhaps 1 per ten minutes in Slow
or Major Leaks, and 1 per minute in Explosive Decompression.

Another problem is ebullism - see my accompanying post on vac exposure. Gas
bubbles in the blood might kill a PC even if recompression is quickly
achieved. Survival would perhaps require a test of END, difficulty
depending on how long the PC was exposed to vac. Even if this test is
failed, the PC might still survive if treated immediately by another PC:
Difficult test of Medical, with bonuses if a sick bay or autodoc is nearby.

Finally, you might note that exposure to vacuum for more than ten seconds
will break a lot of capillaries in the skin, giving the PC a bad case of
'vacuum rose', as Greg Bear calls it (in _Moving Mars_). In my game, I call
it 'vac burn'. Any exposed area of skin ends up looking like the nose of an
aging rummy.

[snip]
>HIT EFFECT VARIANCE
>  All hit effects (Hits, Suffocate) are subject to a variance of +/- 5 (based
>on a +D-D roll). When hits are inflicted, the final value is then adjusted by
>a +D-D roll. For example, 6D Hits is read as 6D +D -D Hits.

Very interesting! This goes for all types of damage?

>PROTECTION
>  LungShield. Protects against nD Suffocate. Eliminates any effect of Gas.
>Description will say LungShield.

Cool. Is this some sort of implant?

I can imagine a lot of interesting implants and body mods intended to
increase vacuum survivability. For instance, those who live and work in
space might have modified skin, or an implanted subcutaneous layer, which
acts like the pressure garment in a VacSuit, to limit ebullism.

>  VacSuit. Protects against nD Vac. Eliminates any effect of Vac. Description
>will say VacSuit.

To what does "Description will say VacSuit" refer?

RE: the Task List, posted previously: I still think you should change
"Craftsman" to "Handicraft" or "Shopcraft" or "Fabrication" or some such
gender-neutral term. And "Sophontology" should be added to the Social
Sciences cluster.

Marc, these preview glimpses of the Deluxe T4.1 always provide a thrill of
anticipation. Can't wait to see the finished product. Oops, I mean, we
*can* wait, as long as it takes - if it means it's going to be done right.
Looks very good so far.

 + GMG +

    -----------------------Glenn Grant-----------------------  
                         <neo@total.net>
    Web: <http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/ggrant.html>
        "...a starship, a robot, two sex toys, and a gun:
      the raw, heady essence of interstellar civilization."
                        --Kenji Schwarz

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 09:58:38 +1100
From: Jason Anderson <midnight@kagi.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Demo

>Another nice one appeared in an issue of Challenge. If was kind of a
>horror-scenario where the ship misjumps and people start acting
>crazy. It's ideal, because not much is needed as background info, and
>makes a great campaign starter! If i could only remember the name....

If its the one I think your talking about...

"The Madness Effect", Challenge 75. For TNE, but can be used in any setting
with a bit of modification. I ran it last year, and it was the session my
players most enjoyed.

Cheers,
Jason

- -------
Beyond Midnight Software                               <midnight@kagi.com>
                                      <http://www.vision.net.au/~midnight>

             If it's not on fire then it's a software problem.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 15:07:27 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re:low-tech ship design

>While in real life double performance means 4 times fuel or energy
>consumption, this is not expressed in FFS rules (I wont think that
>its in FFS2)
That's not particularly true for rockets - double the thrust of a rocket
and you only double the fuel consumption. (Since, to first order,
you can double the thrust by strapping two identical rockets together.)
>Could you post [low-tech lander design]
I posted it a couple of months ago - won't bore everyone again. 
Send me a private email and I'll forward it to you.



Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 17:31:05 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Demo Scenario

Rob Prior <Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca>


>I've run the Shadows adventure several times now, and everyone's enjoyed
>it every time.
>
>I used Classic Traveller rules back when it was first published (1979?),
>MegaTraveller rules when I did it as part of my campaign in Ottawa, and
>TNE rules when I did it at school.  I also ran it (with different
>students) using Star Wars rules and Dream park rules.
>
>
>I have a set of 25mm floorplans available at:
>
>http://www.interlog.com/~dmci104/GamingClub/Traveller/shadows.html

This is what I got when I tried it:

>>>404 Not Found
>>>The requested URL /~dmci104/GamingClub/Traveller/shadows.html
>>>was not found on this server.

IIRC, someone said this was a fairly common error code.  Newbie wants to
know why.  And is there anything I can do about it?  If I try again later
might it be there?

>The last two times I ran the scenario, I prepared by printing these (in
>colour) and glueing them to cardboard.  Then, as the party explored the
>complex, I just laid out each new room as they go there.  Worked really
>well (but took up a lot of table-space!).

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 18:34:23 -0500
From: John Toth <jtoth@erols.com>
Subject: [none]

Does anyone know if there is a Milieu 0 Data available for Mr. Jim 
Vassilakos' Galactic 2.3? I just downloaded tonight and plan on playing 
with it all night!!!

John Toth

PS If there is a work in progress I volunteer to help.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 17:11:57 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, James Lindsay wrote:

> Greets,
> 
> (Doug Berry and) I were wondering if anyone could care to speculate on the
> time it would take for an average individual to die once exposed to a
> vacuum?  I'm sure clothing and preparation might help but I/we don't want
> to get too technical.  Such a character could find himself exposed to a
> vacuum after a major vacc suit tear (assume no patches) or by being blown
> out into space (a la: Spacing).
> 
> So, how long would the poor bastard survive before being considered
> "clinically dead"?

Presuming he has some protections from things _other_ than the lack of
air, time to clinical death will be the same as for any case of
asphyxiation or drowning, somewhere on the order of 5-10 minutes before
irreversable brain damage is done. Presuming someone notices them and gets
them in to sickbay and oxygenated before the time is up they should live.
If they get really cold, that should help...people (kids mostly) who have
drowned under frigid conditions have gone without breathing for as long as
an hour IIRC, without permanent damage.

Being consious and able to help themself will definitely depend on
training, and vary from < 30 sec to > 2 minutes, depending on if they've
had time to prepare (hyperoxygenate), are trained (don't panic, primarily)
and don't find themselves in a bad SF movie (In which case they explode
messily).

The list has gone over the other aspects of vaccuum exposure, damage to
the corneas, eardrums, possibly some drying of the lungs, capillary damage
of the skin, but nothing serious. There are medical case studies of
exposure to vaccuum; someone posted a link the last time this came up on
the list, I think it was also in the alt.space faqs?

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:26:35 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@m9.sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

In a vacume envroment, if you accually _try_ to hold your breath, it 
can become very messy.. Just think of at least 14psi of pressue 
trying to force it's way out of your mouth..(more in you inhale 
deeply just prior to being spaced).

Also you have the really cool effect of all of the surface liquid on 
the skin boiling and freezing at the same time..

Everthing that I have read states that the best method to survive is 
to exhale, and hope you reach help before your lungs hemorage or your 
brain dies of O2 starvation.

Such a pleasant thought :)

> > Too fast. I'm *extremely* unfit, but I can hold my breath for longer than 42 
> > seconds without passing out, and some people can manage 2-3 minutes. I suggest 
> > you double these (ie 1 pt every other round).
> 
> I do no excersizing at all and live a very sedementary lifestyle.  I've
> had 2 hours of sleep today and am weak from it.  I just timed myself for
> holding my breath and went for 1:30:49ths.  I think I can go longer if I
> really try.
> 
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com           http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

Thought for the day:
    A penny saved is ridiculous.

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 98 01:19 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Low Berth Safety (fwd)

Moin John R. Snead,

> Actually, low berths have not always been that dangerous.  The article on 
> suspended animation in Traveller's Digest # 21 went into great detail 
> about this, talking about how low berth travel became much safer by TL 11.

	I dont have CT, but here is a comparision :

	MT : Survive low berth : routine, medical, edu, fateful
	TNE:                     difficult, medical, edu, fateful
	T4 :                     9- (10- if medical assisted)

	So low berth are ok in MT, and risky in TNE and T4. (MT routine!=
	TNE routine), but while its only posible to have a mishap up to
	3D in MT&TNE, T4 low berth are insane as they kill !

	Did CT low berth also always kill, or was did it damage, which
	can be healed, as the doctor is already there.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 98 00:55 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Lifeboats

Moin Leonard Erickson,

> No, just use a misjump. Since FTL violates the *same* laws of physics
> that time travel does, allowing a misjump to move you thru time is not
> unreasonable. 

	In fact any faster than light drive, involves a time paradoxa.

> BTW, if they compare their charts with the M0 charts, they'll have to
> conclude that they've come out in a *different* universe, as the stars
> don't match. :-)

	I dont have 2nd-survey (and no intension to buy it) the map in
	T4/Vol1 could be moved to sector k (I think) and everything is
	fine, after I'd run my economic model on the dgp2 database.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 17:43:47 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Traveller Demo Scenario

On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, Richard A. Flores wrote:

> Rob Prior <Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca>
> >
> >I have a set of 25mm floorplans available at:
> >
> >http://www.interlog.com/~dmci104/GamingClub/Traveller/shadows.html
> 
> This is what I got when I tried it:
> 
> >>>404 Not Found
> >>>The requested URL /~dmci104/GamingClub/Traveller/shadows.html
> >>>was not found on this server.
> 
> IIRC, someone said this was a fairly common error code.  Newbie wants to
> know why.  And is there anything I can do about it?  If I try again later
> might it be there?

The actual reference is:

http://www.interlog.com/~dmci104/GamingClub/Traveller/Shadows.html

Rob forgot the capitalization of the Shadows.html

Yes it is probably _the_ most common error code, and is usually due to
either a typo in the URL, the site's been rearranged, and the path is
wrong, or it's gone.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 19:58:07 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: All change at IG?

Rob Prior wrote:

> As I said, I've been a sucker.  I've let twenty years of enthusiastic
> support for Traveller overwhelm my judgement several times.

In my best Texas-raised redneck accent:

"You see.  That's how they get ya'!"

:-)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 18:09:53 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Starports in White Dwarf 43

Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Cc: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Date: Saturday, January 24, 1998 1:40 PM
Subject: Starports in White Dwarf 43


>I have just spent a happy couple of hours rummaging through my White
>Dwarf collection and reading Tomas Price's article on Startports.  The
>overall sizes that Price proposes are broadly similar to those that I
>estimated in my posting to the TML in October.

[snip of useful sumary]

>As others have said, the wide-scale use of conta-grav and T-plates
>means that the runways are unlikely to be used by starships (Price
>argued in the days of Classic Traveller that fusion-powered starships
>used lots of reaction mass if they were to "land on their tails", and
>that gliding in like the shuttle would save 9 T of fuel for a 100 T
>scout).  However, for some referees the use of runways will be
>appropriate for both starships and in-system traffic.

Check out the results of using an airframe.  You'll see that at least some
runways are still going to be a good idea to accommodate such space craft
(which shouldn't be too uncommon).  Your last comment is particularly
pertinent.  You need somewhere for the local AirTransCo common carriers to
land their planes to unload cargo for off-planet shipment.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 18:21:50 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: [TTL] Hull Paint

Harold D. Hale <hdhale@siscom.net> writes:


>Richard A. Flores writes:
>
>>I can think of a couple of reasons
for not painting a hull.
>>Besides cost (1), you might want that nice shiny
Structurecomp (TL-11)
>>hull to be visible (2).  Some boats and ships should be highly visible
(like
>>life-boats).
>
>   This assumes that bare metal superdense, what hulls are made out of
>at TL 12,

Says who?

>is shiny (can't say that's ever been stated), and that the
>inital cost savings isn't lost over time because of the increased
>maintenance costs involved.  My assumption has always been that
>spacecraft 'paint' isn't just paint--it would contain anti-corrosive
>agents that give the ship protection against damage from exposure to
>water, methane, ammonia, certain other chemicals found in tainted
>atmospheres, and even retard the damage caused by exotic, and other
>extreme atmospheric gas types.  There would also be some sort of under
>coat or even a glaze applied after the paint that reduces (or at high
>TLs) the damage caused by micrometeors.
>
>   Ultimately then, the trade off would be smaller initial cost up front
>versus significantly shorter hull life.  While long hull life is perhaps
>not important in the case of emergency lifeboats or wartime expedient
>hulls, but for practically everyone else *crucial* IMHO.
>
>Regards,
>
>Harold

Notice the corrections to my original portions.  These might help clarify my
position.  Having said that, I can't fault any of Harold's points, aside
from the necessity of using Superdense armor.  Have you noticed how many new
cars have steel outside rather than some of the newer (higher tech)
materials available.  Why?  Economy, that's why.  But otherwise he has no
argument from me.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 18:30:42 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Survival Still

Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> writes:


>In mail you write:
>
>> Does anyone know how much the Survival Still-11 (CSC p 30) uses?
>
>How much *what*?

power

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #38
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Traveller-digest      Sunday, January 25 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 039



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: conservation of momentum
Re: Lifeboats
Soliciting for Freelance Traveller
Re:  My spreadsheet program...
Re: Games Day 80 ... some old notes
Re: Lifeboats
Re: Trav List:  pictures from the first interstellar war
Re: Low Passage now safe?
Dexterity and Agility
Re: My spreadsheet program...
Re: conservation of momentum
Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: Thrusters
Vacuum exposure
Re: Dumarest and Traveller

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 18:40:49 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: conservation of momentum

In mail you write:

>In mail you write:
>
>> I like this one best of all.  I don't need to grab anything or throw any
>> thing or use ropes or wagons or metal objects or magnets or anything. I'll
>> set on your proposed rubber sheet and reach out my hand and press down on
>> it.  Since it is perfectly frictionless, I'll slide into the dimple I've
>> made.  Then I pull my hand out from under me and press down again.  I'll
>> keep pressing down until I get to where I'm going.  (In the audience, hands
>> clap as I wave the one that brought me here.)
>
>Nice try. But if you are pushing down on the sheet in "front" of you,
>you are *lessening* the push your ship makes. Also, you *won't* fall
>into the dimple, as you are creating it a *fixed* distance in front of
>you (the length of your arm). To get closer to it, you'd have to pull
>in your arm.

No, I just push down until I slid in.  I can exert sufficient strength to
make the small dimple deeper than the one holding my (unfortuanaly rather
large) butt.

>And it takes work (energy) both to make the dimple, and to pull in your
>arm while maintaining the dimple.

I won't argue about the first part, but I'm not going to pull in my arm
while maintaining the dimple.  Once I slid into it, I won't need to keep
holding down.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 19:18:51 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Lifeboats

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Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote:


>In mail you write:
>
>>         But now (1203) I don't know how to bring them to M0, the low
>>         berth doesn't work in this situation ;-( Perhaps I should use
>>         the wave ;-)
>
>No, just use a misjump. Since FTL violates the *same* laws of physics
>that time travel does, allowing a misjump to move you through time is =
not
>unreasonable.=20
>
>BTW, if they compare their charts with the M0 charts, they'll have to
>conclude that they've come out in a *different* universe, as the stars
>don't match. :-)

My favorite character came into M0 in a multijump scout/courier (mostly =
fuel).  They were escaping from unexpected combat, the jump-drive was =
damaged beyond repair and the robots (he has always liked robots) kept =
the powerplant and maneuver drives operational through the long voyage.  =
When he came out of the cryoberth, guess what?
=20
Ship:  "Good morning sir.  There's a newly formed Imperium off the port =
bow."
PC:  "Another one?  How long have I been asleep Ship?"
Ship:  "As near as I can calculate, sir, a little over two millennium."
PC:  "What do you mean, 'as near as you can calculate'?"
Ship:  "Time dilation sir.  I could be more specific, but usually you =
get upset if I calculate such things to the limits of my data.  The 'as =
near as I can calculate' is a phrase chosen to soften the blow."
PC:  "Oh, well, easy come easy go.  Did the data bases come through OK?"

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Leonard Erickson &lt;<A=20
href=3D"mailto:shadow@krypton.rain.com">shadow@krypton.rain.com</A>&gt;=20
wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV></FONT>&gt;In mail you=20
write:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; But=20
now (1203) I don't know how to bring them to M0, the=20
low<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; berth =
doesn't=20
work in this situation ;-( Perhaps I should=20
use<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the wave =

;-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;No, just use a misjump. Since FTL violates the *same* =
laws of=20
physics<BR>&gt;that time travel does, allowing a misjump to move you =
through=20
time is not<BR>&gt;unreasonable. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;BTW, if they compare =
their=20
charts with the M0 charts, they'll have to<BR>&gt;conclude that they've =
come out=20
in a *different* universe, as the stars<BR>&gt;don't match. :-)</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff">My favorite character =
came into M0=20
in a multijump scout/courier (mostly fuel).&nbsp; They were escaping =
from=20
unexpected combat, the jump-drive was damaged beyond repair and the =
robots (he=20
has always liked robots) kept the powerplant and maneuver drives =
operational=20
through the long voyage.&nbsp; When he came out of the cryoberth, guess=20
what?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff">Ship:&nbsp; <FONT=20
face=3DWestminster><FONT size=3D3>&quot;</FONT></FONT><FONT =
size=3D3><FONT=20
face=3DWestminster><STRONG>Good morning sir.&nbsp; There's a newly =
formed Imperium=20
off the port bow.</STRONG>&quot;</FONT></FONT><FONT size=3D4><FONT=20
face=3DWestminster></FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT size=3D4></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff">PC:&nbsp; &quot;Another =
one?&nbsp;=20
How long have I been asleep Ship?&quot;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"></FONT><FONT=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff">Ship:&nbsp; <FONT face=3DWestminster =

size=3D3><STRONG>&quot;As near as I can calculate, sir, a little over =
two=20
millennium.&quot;</STRONG></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff">PC:&nbsp; </FONT><FONT=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff">&quot;What do you mean, 'as near as =
you can=20
calculate'?&quot;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"></FONT><FONT=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff">Ship:&nbsp; <STRONG><FONT =
face=3DWestminster=20
size=3D3>&quot;Time dilation sir.&nbsp; I could be more specific, but =
usually you=20
get upset if I calculate such things to the limits of my data.&nbsp; The =
'as=20
near as I can calculate' is a phrase chosen to soften the=20
blow.&quot;</FONT></STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff">PC:&nbsp; &quot;Oh, well, =
easy come=20
easy go.&nbsp; Did the data bases come through=20
OK?&quot;</FONT></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 01:45:33 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Soliciting for Freelance Traveller

One of the nice things about the Web is that you're not limited
to visual media.  I'd like Freelance Traveller to reflect that.
So, I'm asking for the assistance of someone that's musically
talented: I'd like a audio files (preferably .mid format) of the
Imperial Anthem and of the Emperor's March - there's a
difference; the former is played at official functions where
honor or respect to the Imperium is being rendered (for example,
at a reception on Kusyu of the Imperial ambassador); the latter
is played _only_ when the Emperor himself is making a
processional or recessional at a function where he is both
officially and physically present.  U.S. nationals should use the
following parallel: Anthem=Star Spangled Banner; March=Hail To
The Chief.

At the moment, there's another problem: neither has been written.
I'd appreciate it if someone could write them.

In the interest of inclusiveness, the Imperial Edict originally
calling for the creation of the Anthem and the March also
specified that it should be scored in such a manner that it could
be reasonably performed by an ensemble equipped with a range of
musical instruments that could be designed and produced at TL3.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 18:14:09 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Re:  My spreadsheet program...

"Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net> wrote:

> Just can't stop tweaking...
> Version 1.9 of my FF&S2 starship design spreadsheet for Excel is now freely
> available on my web site. The site address is:
> www.ames.net/igor/trav/trav.htm. Once you get there, simply go to the

I'm using a primitive web-browser (lynx) and can't access the program. Can
anyone email this spreadsheet program to me. 

Many Thanks-


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 18:51:16 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Games Day 80 ... some old notes

Simon Early wrote (quoting Marc Miller):

[snip]
>The "Start Wars" cantina scene contains only creatures that fit into
>this band - all can be talked to and all breathe the same air.

The Start Wars!  No!  No!  Me first!  I get to go first!

[snip]
>Zho's hate Imp's.  Imp's hate Zho's.  Sol's (secretly) hate Imp's, but
>the Imperium is too big so the Sol's hate Aslan.  Aslan like Imp's
>because the Sol's hate them (!).  Vargr hate Imp's (and some Vargr hate
>Zho's).  Centaurs hate Vargr.  Vargr hate Centaurs.  Hivers are too
>nice and recluse to hate or be hated.

OH YEAH? WELL, SCREW THEM!!!!!


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 18:51:21 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Lifeboats

Leonard Erickson wrote:

>> I played in a campaign once where no-one could figure out how the ship's
>> medic/steward was feeding us so cheaply. Until we noticed the low berths
>> were getting more and more empty through the weeks in jump...
>
>Was his name Sweeeney Todd?

Chelsea Quinn Yarbro did a nice short story based on this idea, ISTR.
Protagonist was a young steward aboard a huge FTL passenger liner; sorta
brutal crew dynamics.  Ship basically misjumps and they get stuck in
hyperspace.  Permanently.  Food runs out...


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 18:51:26 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Trav List:  pictures from the first interstellar war

Harold Hale wrote:

>   Let's assume that you are the leader of a country that has a gross
>domestic product equal to about a quarter of the world total.  That
>makes you a major player on that planet.  Now, let's say that you are
>faced with a potential enemy that has over 11,000 worlds, hundreds of
>which have a higher GDP than your entire planet.  If you lose a war
>against the potential enemy, you will be *absorbed*, your culture erased
>and your people forced to live under the boot of an interstellar empire
>which isn't above genocide in meeting "corporate goals" (or so your
>translators tell you).
>
>   Are you going to allow petty squabblings that have pretty much been
>resolved to cause the downfall of your civilization?

Leaving aside the assumption that the politicians and ambassadors in
question will be more interested in "their" (whose, exactly?)
civilization's long-term durability than in the opportunity to turn the
grandiosity of the moment to their personal advantage, I think you may be
overstating the Vilani approach to interstellar government.  Vilani and
Vargr suggests that the "strong-arm" approach to incorporating clients
stopped c.-4045 at the end of the last Consolidation War (a good 1600 years
before Terran contact), and also explictly states that before the
Consolidation Wars, the Vilani expansion had taken place through
non-forceful means -- establishment of a trade community, followed by slow
exposure to Vilani civilization and gradual, eventual cultural
assimilation.  There's no mention in V&V of _Ziru Sirka_ engaging in
genocide or ruling with an iron fist, or even of forcibly imposing their
cultural standards.


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 22:50:32 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: Low Passage now safe?

Stephen wrote:
>[T]he effect a Sickbay has of reducing the difficulty of all rolls by two 
>levels.  The implications of this are obvious, suddenly Low Passage on a 
>Sickbay equiped ship becomes safe and cheap[.]
>If this stands it also has cannon breaking implications, since Low
>Passage has always been "risky" in Traveller.

No; there's no intent to break canon in this manner, and the comments in
FF&S2 shouldn't be interpreted that way.  However, the text should be
considerably more clear on this point.

A FF&S2 "sickbay" is one of several different types of medical facility.
They are lumped together for convenience (3 dtons, and cost 0.8MCr).  The 
sickbay supports a staff of two, at least one of whom would normally be a 
Medic-3 or better (doctor, surgeon, or medical specialist) to get the full
benefit of the facility.  The designer determines the exact purpose of the 
sickbay (outpatient care, medical specialty treatment center, critical care, 
surgery, nurse's station, etc.) when it is designed and installed.  Some
facilities may have multiple installations, so that (for example) you could
equip a hospital ship with an emergency room, surgery, pharmacy, trauma
unit, critical care unit, radiology department, medical lab, and so on.

My thinking about low berths and sickbays is that low berths already 
have the required equipment, drugs, and other supplies for reviving the
occupant as safely as possible - thus, the presence of a sickbay won't affect
the low berth survival roll, since there's nothing the sickbay can supply
that's not already available.  However if a sickbay is present, someone who 
has failed their revival roll could be transferred there, and sickbay care 
may help the patient recover  from the results of a failed roll (since the
sickbay is probably qualifies as a TL-11 or better medical facility).  This 
is unlikey to be practical, except in the case of a Naval frozen watch.

A sickbay, like the other labs and shops, provides specialized equipment,
tools, information, and other needed supplies to excercise certain skills.
For tasks where the availability of this stuff makes a difference, there
should be some type of reduction in the difficulty of a task, based on 
the availability of this equipment.  The "game effects" listed for each
type of facility gives the referee some guidelines on what this might be.
The presence of the facility won't help tasks that aren't affected by
the availability of appropriate equipment.


Marc repiled:
>It is canon breaking, and it shouldn't be. The problem is not seeing
>manuscripts before hand, and not having a discussion with the writers of 
>those manuscripts about reassurances that canon won't be broken. 

Agreed.  As I stated above, there was no intent to break Traveller canon
(in fact, preserving Traveller canon was an important goal with the FF&S2
work Dave and I did).  The point should have been made more clear in the 
text, and you have my apology for the way it appears now.



wildstar@qrc.com
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It's Science Fiction, if, presuming technical competence on the part of
 the writer, he genuinely believes it could happen." --- John W. Campbell

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 98 21:45:52 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Dexterity and Agility

On 01/24/98 at 09:13 AM,  Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <schoon@aimnet.com> said:

>>I am humbly asking that you consider making this change.  I base my idea on
>>my own experience as a sniper in the US Army.  I've hit targets out to
>>800m, and I'm the original klutz.

>We may be talking about two variations of dexterity here, and I'm not sure
>that there's an easy way to distinguish the two in T4 terms. There's
>physical dexterity (like tripping over your own boots), and manual
>dexterity (fine tool manipulation).

That is why I use both as Attributes:  Agility for balance, nimbleness and
sure-footedness; Dexterity for hand-eye coordination, fine motor control,
and sure-fingeredness.

>Firing weapons, particularly sniper rifles, goes into the second category.
>I can see an argument for having Submachine gun as a strength based skill,
>because the primary limitation to accuracy is controlling the recoil, but
>for single shots...

Ok, I know Marc is going to expand the number of Characteristics, but
*personally* I use:

 Strength
 Constitution
 Agility
 Dexterity
 Intelligence
 Scholarship
 Charisma
 Will

Social Standing and Education drop from Characteristics to part of the PC's
background.

On the gun skill issue, I'd say Dexterity to aim the gun, and a minimum
Strength to control the weapon without a -DM, but, of course, I always do
things differently.  ;->


Eris
 
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 22:57:04 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: My spreadsheet program...

John R. Snead <jsnead@netcom.com> wrote:


>"Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net> wrote:
>
>> Just can't stop tweaking...
>> Version 1.9 of my FF&S2 starship design spreadsheet for Excel is now
freely
>> available on my web site. The site address is:
>> www.ames.net/igor/trav/trav.htm. Once you get there, simply go to the
>
>I'm using a primitive web-browser (lynx) and can't access the program. Can
>anyone email this spreadsheet program to me.

I did.  Don't be surprised if you get several more from folks.  Oh, well.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 23:05:18 -0500
From: Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com>
Subject: Re: conservation of momentum

At 2:31 PM -0500 1/24/98, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>> I like this one best of all.  I don't need to grab anything or throw any
>> thing or use ropes or wagons or metal objects or magnets or anything.  I'll
>> set on your proposed rubber sheet and reach out my hand and press down on
>> it.  Since it is perfectly frictionless, I'll slide into the dimple I've
>> made.  Then I pull my hand out from under me and press down again.  I'll
>> keep pressing down until I get to where I'm going.  (In the audience, hands
>> clap as I wave the one that brought me here.)
>
>Nice try. But if you are pushing down on the sheet in "front" of you,
>you are *lessening* the push your ship makes. Also, you *won't* fall
>into the dimple, as you are creating it a *fixed* distance in front of
>you (the length of your arm). To get closer to it, you'd have to pull
>in your arm.
>
>And it takes work (energy) both to make the dimple, and to pull in your
>arm while maintaining the dimple.

Okay, that's still reactionless, though.  It's an interesting analogy.
If you created the deeper dimple ahead of you and lowered your ship
down into it that would be thrust.

The above is the best analogy for a reactionless drive I've ever seen.
I'd love for someone to back that up from the analogy and make up
some technobabble for it... maybe even something plausible.

Bolie IV

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 98 22:20:33 PST
From: "Marcus & Lurann Teter" <galileo@montana.campus.mci.net>
Subject: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

>Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:18:31 -0600
>From: "Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net>
>Subject: Low Tech Colony Ship (long)
>
>I've been playing around with designing a low-tech colony ship (around TL
>9).

I've been messing around with the same.  First off, let me say that the
design is excellent.  Andrew clearly spent a considerable amount of time on
it.

> Here are the parameters for my design - I don't claim that these are
>good choices for starting up a colony, I've done little or no research on
>the matter...

Lets look them over.  I've done a little more, but it is still in the
infancy stage.  My main intent is to determine the number of people that
need to be taken to the colony world, and what do they need to take with
them to be successful, then build the ship to get them there.  I'm assuming
that an interferometer optical telescope has discovered that there is a
habitable world orbiting another nearby system (say Tau Ceti) and the
decision is made to send a colony. 

>
>* 1000 Colonists

Not bad.  But one of the problems I toyed with was: would a thousand be
enough to establish a viable colony?  Given that the cost of such an
endeavor would be formidable (at least by modern standards), I would try to
maximize the number of people that would eventualy reach the ground.  Since
all of the colonists would have to be put into low berths, most of the
considerations for keeping them alive for the journey are eliminated, where
the remaining consideration is power.  So, how many colonists would be
optimum?  

My guess would be 10000 , but I am biased since that is the number of
people I wanted for my colony to begin with.  Clearly, 100000 is too many
and 100 is too few.  What says the list-folk?

Another consideration is the breakdown of the complement of colonists. 
Idealy, the colonists should represent a cross section of the society as a
whole--mainly to avoid problems trying to set up a new social structure. 
However, to insure genetic viability (chances are that this will be a
one-shot mission to create the colony) a disproportunate number of women in
their child bearing years would be included--including millions eggs,
sperm, and embrios representing a large cross section of the home-world
population.   Also, the number of children that are part of the original
colony should be carefuly considered.  I know that the number should not be
zero, since it breaks up the child raising chain of events.  But, the
number should not be very large because the initial events of colonization
are extreamly labor intensive, where a lot of kids would be a possible
distraction.
Furthermore, the professions of the colonists should be considered
carefuly.  Too few farmers could be as disasterous as too many.  Plus,
there has to be plenty of scientists capable of sourting out the many
surprises that will certainly be found on the new world.  Lastly, there
will have to be pilots to run the shuttle service between the starship and
the ground once they arrive at the new world.


Clearly, this is getting to be  quite a bit longer than I first thought. 
So I will stop at this point, leaving the part about what is needed in
terms of cargo for the next post, which I'll try to write after the
SuperBowl.  I'd like to complement Andrew on a good design once again.

Until tomorrow,
Marcus A. Teter
galileo@montana.campus.mci.net

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 21:12:03 -0800
From: Edward Fok <efok@ni.net>
Subject: Re: Thrusters

At the risk of beating this to death....

I noticed that no one mentioned that the Traveller Thrusters are some form
of Space Drive based on the Zero Point Field?  Specifically the Zero-Point
Field-Inertial concept as proposed by Haisch, Rueda and Puthoff.

More information at he following site:
http://www.jse.com/haisch/zpf.html
http://www.lerc.nasa.gov/WWW/bpp/

This stuff is really speculative, and I can't admit to understanding all of
it.  But it beat any kind of handwaving explaination.  And there's always
NASA to give you more background information when you need it.

At 16:26 1/19/98 -0600, you wrote:
>I was having a discussion with some friends about Traveller, and we got on
>the subject of the reactionless Thruster. All of us were smart enough to
>realize the problem, so we asked ourselves:
>
>Why does it have to be reactionless? The classic maneuver drive was never
>well defined until SOM - it was just "the drive that moves the ship that
>doesn't take fuel".
>
>Some thought that it must be a gravity drive of some sort, pushing off of
>the various gravity gradients of the system it is in. Of course, that
>introduces a hiccup in the form of varying performance depending on the
>local space-time curvature (read: gravity).
>
>Some of us thought it might be an "exotic particle" drive - that is, some
>generated particle is used as the reaction mass. Of course this has the
>problem that most such particles wouldn't be able to generate the thrust
>necessary, since their mass is so small.
>
>Anyone have any ideas on this? My group wants a decent explanation for the
>thruster unit (doesn't have to be perfect) that fits classic Traveller (our
>campaign setting) - thus HEPlaR is out.
>
>Thanks...
>
>
>
>
=============================================================
It's Ed! "aka Red Baron, Caffeine Achiever"	Weekly Quote:
Success always occurs in private, and failure in full view.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 00:29:13 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: Vacuum exposure

Andrew M J Boulton (quoting the sci.space FAQ):

> HOW LONG CAN A HUMAN LIVE UNPROTECTED IN SPACE 
> 
> If you *don't* try to hold your breath, exposure to space for half a 
> minute or so is unlikely to produce permanent injury. 

Jerry Pournelle (the SF writer) claims to have been exposed to vacuum during
his work with NASA (along with a few other people, some by accident, some
voluntarily). He does not indicate if this was a partial or complete vacuum,
but he does indicate some other details.

He indicates that you won't have to worry about holding your breath, as the
process hurts like _H*ll_ and the victim will probably be screaming in agony
very early in the exposure. 

Otherwise, he pretty much agrees with the quoted data, except that he claims
the upper limits of consciosness are longer.

Loren Wiseman
     GDW Emeritus, SJG Emigre

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 19:08:16 +0000
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Dumarest and Traveller

FWIW here is a partial list of the Dumarest books in order, taken 
from the ones I've got on my shelf.

1.     The Winds of Gath
       E. C. Tubb, copyright 1967

2.     Derai
       E. C. Tubb, copyright 1968

3.     Toyman
       E. C. Tubb, copyright 1969

4.     Kalin
       E. C. Tobb, copyright 1969

5.     The Jester at Scar
       E. C. Tubb, copyright 1970

6.     Lallia
       E. C. Tubb, copyright 1971

7.     Technos
       E. C. Tubb, copyright 1972

8.     Veruchia
       E. C. Tubb, copyright 1973

9.     Mayenne
       E. C. Tubb, copyright 1973

10.    Jondelle
       E. C. Tubb, copyright 1973

11.    Zenya
       E. C. Tubb, copyright 1974

12.    The Eye of the Zodiac
       E. C. Tubb, copyright ?

13.    Eloise
       E. C. Tubb, copyright 1975
       (My copy of _Eloise_ claims to be number 12, and lists numbers 
       9, 10, and 11 correctly, but make no mention of _The Eye of 
       the Zodiac_ at all, so I'm not sure what's going on here, 
       especially as I don't have _The Eye of the Zodiac_.)

14.    Jack of Swords
       E. C. Tubb, copyright 1976

15.    Spectrum of a Forgotten Sun
       E. C. Tubb, copyright 1976

16.    Haven of Darkness
       E. C. Tubb, copyright 1977

17.    Prison of Night
       E. C. Tubb, copyright ?

18.    Incident on Ath
       E. C. Tubb, copyright ?

19.    The Quillian Sector
       E. C. Tubb, copyright 1978

20.    Web of Sand
       E. C. Tubb, copyright ?

21.    Iduna's Universe
       E. C. Tubb, copyright 1979

22.    The Terra Data
       E. C. Tubb, copyright 1980

23.    World of Promise
       E. C. Tubb, copyright 1980

24.    ?

25.    The Terridae
       E. C. Tubb, copyright 1981

I don't know what the names of the folling books are, as _The 
Terridae_ is the last of them that I own, and nobody else round 
here has any.

I can't say which is best, but I rather like them. It's also 
surprisingly useful to read them in some sort of order, even though 
there is very little carry-over between books, if only so that what 
little plot development there is can actually be seen.

R. Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North
New Zealand

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #39
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Traveller-digest      Sunday, January 25 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 040



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Software Proposal -- star system generator
Re:  Zhodani Ship Configuration (?)
Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy
RE: Traveller-digest V1998 #37
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Missiles, low berths, and other canon...
Thrusters
Graphics formats/resolution
Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy
Re: Artificial Gravity
Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Homepage (was Intercepted Darmine ...)
Re: Decompression/T4.1 Hit System
Re: Decompression/T4.1 Hit System
Re: Decompression/T4.1 Hit System

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 23:28:34 -0700
From: "Christopher E. Webb" <cwebb@ctos.com>
Subject: Software Proposal -- star system generator

I am posting this to the TML in order to see if there is interest in
software like this -- it's about 1/3-1/2 of the proposal I'm submitting for
my software programming project I need to do for my degree.  The target
platform is going to be a DOS/Win95 machine; graphics would be preferred
(640x480x16bit ideally -- that's the best my current monitor can handle).

I am working on a revision of some software that I adapted/modified a year
ago that generates solar systems (Accrete 2 & 3 at Douglas Berry's home
page (http://www.hooked.net/~dberry)).  The features I'm going to include are:

* Ability to build a solar system from scratch (user provides the star type
or stellar mass & luminosity).

* Ability to build a solar system around a mainworld (user provides a UWP,
the software builds a solar system and places the mainworld in the
habitable zone).

* Ability to build a solar system around basic system details (user
provides UWP (optionally) and the number of gas giants and planetoid belts
desired).

* System editing (Don't like having that world where it is? Move it out a
few million km!  Is the main world too big?  Resize it.  The software will
recompute the relevant planetary characteristics).

* System viewing (graphical display of the solar system -- showing relative
distances of the worlds from the star).

* Detailed world information (radius in km, axial tilt, surface
acceleration (gravity), minimum molecular weight retained, min/max
temperatures on the different latitude bands (from the MT WBH/TNE WBH).

Some other features I'm kicking around as possible additions:
* Colonization-related information (WBH/WTH basic details -- weather
factors, seismic stress factor).

* Crude world mapping & display (a cylindrical map roughly similar to the
world maps in WBH/WTH).

* World resource information (something like the WTH has -- mineral
richness, agricultural richness, biological compatibility, etc).

I'd like to take the system generator and use it as part of a "system
colonization" game roughly based on the economic model presented in the
WTH.  That part of the project will have to wait a while, though.

What other features would be needed to make the system generator software
package useful?  Does anyone think something like this would be useful?
I'd really like some feedback (either directly to me or to the list) so
that I can convince my professors that there is demand for software.

Thanks, 
Christopher Webb
cwebb@ctos.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 02:10:10 EST
From: GypsyComet <GypsyComet@aol.com>
Subject: Re:  Zhodani Ship Configuration (?)

Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <schoon@aimnet.com> asks:

> Zhodani Ship Configuration (?)

>

>I'd like some opinions.

>

>Most of us should be familiar with the typified Zhodani ship shape: the one

>made popular by FASA, which has appeared on various Imperial unit logos

>(usually in the center of crosshairs). Just in case, it's a small diamond

>on the end of a long neck, with an oblong main hull shape (the picture is a

>much better reference).

>

>My question is what hull configuration it would fall under. I'm torn

>between wedge and medium or long rounded cylinders, but then again it might

>also qualify as some other shape.

>


  The Zhdits (the ship you are describing) originates in FASAs
Adventure Class Ships Vol 1, where it is classed as a "Close Structure".

  Yeah right.

  The Zhdits also appeared (many years later) in the Brilliant Lances
box. There it is described as a "Needle SL". I consider this much
more appropriate.

  Deckplans (bad ones) appeared in the FASA product...

  As for Zhodani ships in general, the Keith brothers are responsible
for setting the general appearance throughout a number of FASA and
GDW products for Classic Traveller.  As far as I can tell, they all
follow a set of architectural tendencies:

 -two M-Drive outlets, usually set at or below the visual midline
  of the hull and never as the aft-most parts of the ship.
 -as mentioned above, most have a "tail" or some other part of the
  ship aside from the drives that forms the actual stern.
 -wider across the lower portion of the hull than across the upper
  portions. The Zhdits shows this admirably, as the upper deck is
  long and skinny while the lower decks get progressively wider.
 -many hulls show a "necked" effect, being narrower somewhere in the
  middle than at either end. The Zhdits does this, but only the bridge
  is forward of the neck.
 -a forward-placed bridge. Among published designs only the SDB does
  not have this feature.
 -some fighters show a split cockpit glass design reminiscent of the
  helmets of Zhodani Combat Armor.
 -exterior hull appearance takes one of two (maybe three) "looks".
  Either a sweeping, organic look predominates (the Zhdits, the Ninz,
  and the Stedlas-carried Heavy Fighter) or a blocky appearance (the
  Vlezhdatl). Several ships meld these ideas into the "sharp and
  spikey" look seen on the Chatl, the Fanzhienz, and the Stedlas SDB.
  I assume that the blocky look predominates in the larger ships,
  while the organic themes are found among the smaller designs.
 -found mostly on the organics, the Zhodani favor a forward-swept
  dorsal fin on the aft half of the hull. Some also add distinct wings,
  though I have not seen a design that had _just_ wings without the
  tailfin. It was a design of this sort that caused a revolution in
  Vargr ship architecture around the time that the Rule of Man fell.
 -Overall the Zhodani prefer complex hull shapes over simple ones.
  The Imperial-favored flying wedgie is unseen in Consular space.
 -The Zhodani show no signs of using bilaterally asymetric hullforms.

 One conclusion I've drawn from the pictured Zhodani designs is that
the seas of Zhdant are probably home to some _very_ interesting
life. Fast, streamlined, carnivorous cephalopods anyone?

  One set of canon pictures that I consider apocryphal (or at least
ancient history) is the illustrations on the starships page of the
original Zhodani Alien Module. While these long, slim needles may
have been needed in the strictly aerodynamic days of Zhodani space
exploration, they would have been replaced by the more aesthetic
forms in use today as contragrav negated the need for strict
aerodynamic forms.

  Deckplans exist for most of the better-known Zhodani ships, though
they all date from the FASA days, when "art" dominated and accuracy
of deckplans was worse than secondary. I've also done the 200-ton
Courier from the Zhodani Alien Module and tinkered with a Free Trader
design. The Council Cruiser is a project for "someday".


 GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 03:11:55 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

J-Man <j-man@iname.com> wrote

> > -> I'm game for it but don't have a website & consider it unlikely to get
> > -> paper publication (although I'd love that).

> > Why don't you go to one of the many free web-space-providers, like 
> > Geocities  or others. Normal Web 
> > access is enough and designing a page is easy enough using Navigator 
> > Gold or Netscape 4.0.
> 
> I use Arachnophilia for all my Web editting.  In my opinion, it's the
> best web editting tool out there. 

I know I could get a free web page.  My own IP includes includes a
"free" page in their basic service.  I also know that their are "easy"
to use ways to create pages.  I do not know how to use them.  I am not
sufficiently motivated to learn how to use them, as I do not think that
the work is worth the effort (to me).  Doing your own web page is (IMHO)
sort of a "vanity press" type thing [This is _not_ meant to disparage
anyone out there, or any Traveller web pagesout there, it is just that
when you publish something yourself it is harder to get the validation
that you can get when someone else is willing to publish it for you.] 
While I am not unvain I am not willing to go to the effort of learning a
new program just to put the Darmine stuff up.  If someone else is
willing to put it up this will 1) save me the effort and 2) convince me
that someone else thinks it is worth doing.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 12:25:28 -0000
From: Douglas Sinclair <eem2ds@ee.surrey.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1998 #37

> Too fast. I'm *extremely* unfit, but I can hold my breath for longer than
> 42 
> seconds without passing out, and some people can manage 2-3 minutes. I
> suggest 
> you double these (ie 1 pt every other round).
Ah, but fitness doesn't come into it.  In T4.1, vacuum does damage to
intelligence.  You're just really smart...

One factor to consider is panic.  I'd expect that when you hold your breath
for a few minutes, you're sitting down calmly.  Your body will be running at
its rest metabolic rate of about 80 watts.  If you're in a vac suit that's
just explosively decompressed, you're probably not too calm.  That will
increase your rate of oxygen consumption.  I know that cave divers have to
remain very calm at depth.  A sudden surprise or gasp will use up their air
margin.  Perhapse this is why INT is used instead of END for vacuum damage
in T4.1?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 08:23:46 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

In a message dated 98-01-24 16:28:33 EST, you write:

<< 
 And don't forget Bowman getting back aboard Discovery in 2001. Since Clarke
wrote 2001 too, he probably cribbed from his previous story.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 08:38:22 -0600
From: The Akins <igor@ames.net>
Subject: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...

I'm not trying to stir up a hornets nest, but...

The recent discussion on sickbays and low berths have made me reconsider
the KKM missile, high energy weapons on spacecraft, and other past canon
that has been set aside because of our "real world" knowledge of the
subject matter.

I have to stand by by *feeling* that rules for KKM missiles, HE weapons,
and such need to be made, simply because they are canon. Even if some
sort of handwave is necessary, the fact remains that a great deal of
previous material use these items, and some of us (myself included) are
playing campaigns that span a decade (or more). One of the biggest
referee problems I had with TNE and then T4 was the fact that a great
number of my starship designs were invalidated overnight - sure, I could
continue to use the old rules, but I WANTED to use the new stuff, 'cause
in a lot of ways its better.

Its like the HEPlaR and Thruster argument - some people just don't like
thrusters. Fine - use HEPlaR. Some people are going to say (and they may
be right) that KKMs and/or HE weapons are unrealistic and scientifically
unsound. Fine - don't use them. But for those of us that for one reason
or another are tied to older campaigns, the disapearance of these items
(which ARE canon) is a source of small aggrevation.

I would ask that rules for these items be added back to the Traveller
rules - perhaps with a sidebar explaining that they are more "Fiction"
than "Science" (you could also toss Thrusters in this sidebar). Thus, us
old-timers that want 'em back would be happy - and newer players would
know that they are sliding away from "hard sci-fi" if they use them.

Its much easier to add such rules (to restore canon) and then ignore
them if you wish - than to not have the rules at all and ignore previous
versions of the Traveller universe.

Just my $.02

Andrew Akins
- -- 
+-----------------------------------------------------+
| THE AKINS - Andy, Chris, & Matt                     |
+-----------------------------------------------------+
| E-Mail:             igor@ames.net                   |
| Family Web Page:    www.ames.net/igor/              |
| Traveller Web Page: www.ames.net/igor/trav/trav.htm |
+-----------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 10:12:17 -0500
From: "Eric Freitas" <edf@atlantic.net>
Subject: Thrusters

    The vacuum of space is not empty.  It is filled with virtual
particles that appear and disappear in only a fraction of a
second.   These virtual particles have electric and magnetic
fields associated with them.  When an object accelerates
through these fields, the fields associated with your own
particles become phase shifted relative to the fields of the
virtual particles.  This phase shift induces a release of 
radiation that is opposite the direction of acceleration.
This radiation creates a measurable force known as
inertia.

    By applying the correct type of electromagnetic field
to an object, say a thrust plate, for inducing a phase shift
without accelerating, you can cause an object to accelerate.
This is kind of like reverse inertia.  So the plate doesn't 
create a warp in space-time to propel the ship, it just uses
the vacuum flux to create reverse inertia.

Eric Freitas

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 10:28:58 EST
From: Kagehira <Kagehira@aol.com>
Subject: Graphics formats/resolution

	As part of the CD-ROM project some example graphics have been put up to test
what might show up best on screen and on printers. So I'd like everybody to
have a chance to vote on the subject.

	The site is at:
	http://users.qrc.com/~wildstar/traveller/cdproject/
    
	I'd like answers to the following:    
    
	For the color screen shots, which of the following do you prefer:    
90dpi jpeg		y	n    
90dpi gif		y	n    
150dpi jpeg		y	n    
150dpi gif		y	n    
300dpi jpeg		y	n    
300dpi gif		y	n    
    
	For the color print shots, which do you prefer:    
90dpi jpeg		y	n    
90dpi gif		y	n    
150dpi jpeg		y	n    
150dpi gif		y	n    
300dpi jpeg		y	n    
300dpi gif		y	n    
    
	For the B&W screen shots, which do you prefer:    
90dpi jpeg		y	n    
90dpi gif 256-color	y	n
90dpi gif  16-color	y	n
150dpi jpeg		y	n    
150dpi gif 256-color	y	n
150dpi gif  16-color	y	n    
300dpi jpeg		y	n    
300dpi gif 256-color	y	n
300dpi gif  16-color	y	n
    
	For the B&W print shots, which do you prefer:    
90dpi jpeg				y	n
90dpi gif 256-color			y	n
90dpi gif  16-color			y	n    
150dpi jpeg				y	n
150dpi gif 256 color			y	n
150dpi gif  16 color			y	n
300dpi jpeg				y	n
300dpi gif 256 color			y	n
300dpi gif  16 color			y	n

	Short one paragraph comments.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 07:13:29 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

> new program just to put the Darmine stuff up.  If someone else is
> willing to put it up this will 1) save me the effort and 2) convince me
> that someone else thinks it is worth doing.
> 


Send me the info and I'll put it on my page.  As to learning HTML
yourself, it is ridiculously easy.  I wish BASIC had been as easy to
master.  I mastered most of the HTML commands in 3 hours after the very
first time I saw any source code.  What helped was www.htmlgoodies.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 10:02:50 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Artificial Gravity

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0081_01BD2978.650FF1C0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


I posted the following on Wednesday (1/21/98 at 2:30 PM).

>FF&S2 says, "Artificial gravity inertial compensators create an=20
>artificial gravity field directed between the deck plates of a ship=20
>to provide a constant gravity field.  The generators are also=20
>tied into the ship's computer, which varies the field strength to=20
>counteract the effects of a ship's acceleration, up to a=20
>maximum level."
>
>Does any one have any problems with this?
>
>Peter H. Brenton <pbrenton@mit.edu> wrote:

>>I think you must, from your question, but other than a few=20
>>simplifications I don't.

[snipped his details and my response]
 =20
From the lack of negative response, I assume that no one has=20
any problems with the description of Artificial Gravity (AG).

If this description is correct, then we need to change the way=20
we calculate acceleration on vehicles with AG.  I propose the=20
following system as an optional (gearhead) rule.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
- -------------
If DA<=3DK then RT=3DDA*M3+(K-DA)*M1 and DF=3DK-DA
If DA>K and DA<(MF+K) then RT=3DM3*K + (DA-K)*M1
                                             and DF=3DDA-K
If DA>=3D(MF+K) then RT=3DMF*M1 + M3*(DA-MF) and DF=3DMF

In our final case, K is invalid, the apparent acceleration (AA)=20
will be:  AA=3DDA-MF.

One last equation:  MA=3D(TT + MF*M2)/M3

Where:
MF=3Dmaximum field strength of AG (in G's)
DF=3Ddesired field strength of AG (in G's)
M1=3Dmass of uncompensated elements (in tons)
               (probably just the hull)
M2=3Dmass of compensated elements (in tons)
M3=3Dtotal mass (M1+M2) (in tons)
TT=3Dtotal thrust that can be developed by the engines (in tonGs)=20
RT=3Drequired thrust (in tonGs) to achieve the DA
DA=3Ddesired acceleration possible (in G's)=20
MA=3Dmaximum acceleration possible (in G's)
K=3Dconstant apparent acceleration (in G's)
     (probably 1 but could be anything according to the desires
     of (or orders to) the programmer of the computer that
     controls/adjusts the AG)

PS:  If your engines were off-line but the AG still worked you=20
could get an acceleration of up to MF*M2/M3 (in G's).  But,
it would feel like free fall.

Of course the beer and pretzels crowd could continue to=20
calculate their accelerations in the normal manner.

Well, what do you think?
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
- -------------
After finishing the above write-up, I thought of something else:

Why don't we avoid the whole T-Plate debate and just include=20
the deck plates within the field?  Then we could accelerate=20
everything at whatever the field strength is.

Of course then everyone and everything inside would be in=20
zero-g (relatively speaking).  But then I guess we could add a=20
1 G engine or stack another field inside the first (between the=20
deck plates).


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 =
HTML//EN"><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"><!DOCTYPE HTML =
PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT size=3D3>I posted the following=20
on</FONT></FONT><FONT size=3D3><FONT face=3DArial> Wednesday (1/21/98 at =
2:30=20
PM).</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt;FF&amp;S2 says, &quot;Artificial gravity inertial compensators =
create=20
an </DIV>
<DIV>&gt;artificial gravity field directed between the deck plates of a =
ship=20
</DIV>
<DIV>&gt;to provide a constant gravity field.&nbsp; The generators are =
also=20
</DIV>
<DIV>&gt;tied into the ship's computer, which varies the field strength =
to=20
</DIV>
<DIV>&gt;counteract the effects of a ship's acceleration, up to a </DIV>
<DIV>&gt;maximum level.&quot;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Does any one have any =
problems with=20
this?<BR>&gt;</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3><FONT face=3DArial>&gt;Peter H. Brenton &lt;<A=20
href=3D"mailto:pbrenton@mit.edu">pbrenton@mit.edu</A>&gt; wrote:
<DIV><BR>&gt;&gt;I think you must, from your question, but other than a =
few=20
</DIV>
<DIV>&gt;&gt;simplifications I don't.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>[snipped his details and my response]</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp; </FONT></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3><FONT face=3DArial>From the lack of negative =
response, I assume=20
that no one has </FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3><FONT face=3DArial>any </FONT></FONT><FONT =
size=3D3><FONT=20
face=3DArial>problems with the description of Artificial Gravity=20
(AG).</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>If this description is correct, then we need to change the way =
</DIV>
<DIV>we calculate acceleration on vehicles with AG.&nbsp; I propose the =
</DIV>
<DIV>following system as an optional (gearhead) rule.</DIV>
<DIV>--------------------------------------------------------------------=
- ------------------</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>If DA&lt;=3DK then RT=3DDA*M3+(K-DA)*M1 and DF=3DK-DA</DIV></DIV>
<DIV>If DA&gt;K and DA&lt;(MF+K) then RT=3DM3*K + (DA-K)*M1</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
and DF=3DDA-K</DIV>
<DIV>If DA&gt;=3D(MF+K) then RT=3DMF*M1 + M3*(DA-MF) and DF=3DMF</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>In our final case, K is invalid, the apparent acceleration (AA) =
</DIV>
<DIV>will be:&nbsp; AA=3DDA-MF.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>One last equation:&nbsp; MA=3D(TT + MF*M2)/M3</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></DIV>Where:</DIV></DIV>
<DIV>MF=3Dmaximum field strength of AG (in G's)</DIV>
<DIV>DF=3Ddesired field strength of AG (in G's)</DIV>M1=3Dmass of =
uncompensated=20
elements (in tons)</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
(probably just the hull)</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>M2=3Dmass of compensated elements (in tons)</DIV>M3=3Dtotal mass =
(M1+M2) (in=20
tons)</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>TT=3Dtotal thrust that can be developed by the engines (in tonGs)=20
<DIV>RT=3Drequired thrust (in tonGs) to achieve the =
DA</DIV></DIV>DA=3Ddesired=20
acceleration possible (in G's)=20
<DIV>MA=3Dmaximum acceleration possible (in G's)</DIV>
<DIV>K=3Dconstant apparent acceleration (in G's)</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (probably 1 but could be anything =
according to the=20
desires</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; of (or orders to) the programmer of the =
computer=20
that</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; controls/adjusts the AG)</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3><FONT face=3DArial>PS:&nbsp; If your engines were =
off-line but=20
the AG still worked you </FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3><FONT face=3DArial>could get an acceleration of up =
to MF*M2/M3=20
(in G's).&nbsp; But,</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3><FONT face=3DArial>it would feel like free=20
fall.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3><FONT face=3DArial></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Of course the beer and pretzels crowd could continue to </DIV>
<DIV>calculate their accelerations in the normal manner.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3><FONT face=3DArial>Well, what do you=20
think?</FONT></FONT></DIV>-----------------------------------------------=
- ---------------------------------------</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3><FONT face=3DArial>After finishing the above =
write-up, I thought=20
of something else:</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3><FONT face=3DArial></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3><FONT face=3DArial>Why don't we avoid the whole =
T-Plate debate=20
and just include </FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3><FONT face=3DArial>the deck plates within the =
field?&nbsp; Then=20
we could accelerate </FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3><FONT face=3DArial>everything at whatever the field =
strength=20
is.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3><FONT face=3DArial></FONT></FONT><FONT =
size=3D3><FONT=20
face=3DArial></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3><FONT face=3DArial>Of course then =
</FONT></FONT><FONT=20
size=3D3><FONT face=3DArial>everyone and everything inside would be in=20
</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3><FONT face=3DArial></FONT></FONT><FONT =
size=3D3><FONT=20
face=3DArial>zero-g (relatively </FONT></FONT><FONT size=3D3><FONT=20
face=3DArial>speaking).&nbsp; But then I guess we could add a =
</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3><FONT face=3DArial></FONT></FONT><FONT =
size=3D3><FONT face=3DArial>1=20
G engine or </FONT></FONT><FONT size=3D3><FONT face=3DArial>stack =
another field=20
inside the first (between the </FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3><FONT face=3DArial></FONT></FONT><FONT =
size=3D3><FONT=20
face=3DArial>deck plates).</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0081_01BD2978.650FF1C0--

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 98 16:39 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

Moin Marcus & Lurann Teter,

> >* 1000 Colonists
> 
> Not bad.  But one of the problems I toyed with was: would a thousand be
> enough to establish a viable colony? 

	depends on what you call viable. imho 1000 people without trade
	will be TL:3 in some generations. In what I understand about
	macro economics, the diversity increases with techlevel, and only
	a large economy can build the synergy to sustain a high techlevel
	for a prolonged time. Building colonies in sailing ship era, was
	easy, the colony had trade and the techlevel they started was not
	significant higher than their population code. But to start a TL:9
	colony you have to howl 10^9/2^4 people. I think most solomani
	islanders had been in renessaince when recontacted.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 98 16:47 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Homepage (was Intercepted Darmine ...)

Moin Peter Newman,

> Doing your own web page is (IMHO) sort of a "vanity press" type thing

	yes it is, but writing in TML is also "vanity press".

	The learning curve of HTML is easy, if you managed to write plain
	text with a computer, you have half the bill. To convert plain text
	into HTML is most times, only adding <p> for paragraph break. And
	<h1>header</h1> for headings. With only 5 tags (P,H,A,UL,LI) you
	can have your plain text documents HTML viewable.

> If someone else is willing to put it up this will
  1) save me the effort and
  2) convince me that someone else thinks it is worth doing.

	send your writings to "Freelance Traveller" they are hosting other
	peoples traveller stuff, and I think are able to HTMLify them.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 11:45:41 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Decompression/T4.1 Hit System

In a message dated 98-01-24 20:18:53 EST, you write:

<< >  VacSuit. Protects against nD Vac. Eliminates any effect of Vac.
Description
 >will say VacSuit.
 
 To what does "Description will say VacSuit" refer?
  >>
The equipment card for a Mark 17 Mod 3 Personal Environment Suit may not
actually say Vac Suit in its title... so the description will say VacSuit (and
thus the piece of equipment will do as above).

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 11:45:30 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Decompression/T4.1 Hit System

In a message dated 98-01-24 20:18:53 EST, you write:

<< 
 >PROTECTION
 >  LungShield. Protects against nD Suffocate. Eliminates any effect of Gas.
 >Description will say LungShield.
 
 Cool. Is this some sort of implant?
  >>

No. Its a descriptive phrase for equipment. It would be included in a
description of a Vac Suit, Battle Dress, Protective Suit, etc. To clue a
player in that a specific piece of equipment does that function.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 11:45:39 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Decompression/T4.1 Hit System

In a message dated 98-01-24 20:18:53 EST, you write:

<< >HIT EFFECT VARIANCE
 >  All hit effects (Hits, Suffocate) are subject to a variance of +/- 5
(based
 >on a +D-D roll). When hits are inflicted, the final value is then adjusted
by
 >a +D-D roll. For example, 6D Hits is read as 6D +D -D Hits.
 
 Very interesting! This goes for all types of damage?
 
 >>
Yes. So a 2D hit range from minimum 2 (-5=0) to 12 (+5=17), but the typical
hit result is still 7. 

Marc
 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #40
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Sunday, January 25 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 041



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Homepage (was Intercepted Darmine ...)
Gurps Traveller Web Page
Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Return of Liaison Skill?
Re: Imperial Music (was: Soliciting for Freelance Traveller)
Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator
Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...
Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy
RE: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
RE: Graphics formats/resolution
Re: Graphics formats/resolution
FLGS
Computer Computational Rating Transfer Rates
Bringing FFS2 Into Line with T4 Book 1
Re: Re Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
RE: Graphics formats/resolution
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: Thrusters [A ZPF explanation]
Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator
Re: Time of Death for Spacing

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 09:13:27 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Homepage (was Intercepted Darmine ...)

Michael Koehne wrote:


>Moin Peter Newman,
>
>> Doing your own web page is (IMHO) sort of a "vanity press" type thing
>
>        yes it is, but writing in TML is also "vanity press".

<G>

[snip]
>> If someone else is willing to put it up this will
>  1) save me the effort and
>  2) convince me that someone else thinks it is worth doing.
>
>        send your writings to "Freelance Traveller" they are hosting other
>        peoples traveller stuff, and I think are able to HTMLify them.

I agree with Michael, Peter -- put it up on Freelance Traveller!  It's the
closest thing to a JTAS we have right now.

Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 12:41:02 -0500
From: "Eric Freitas" <edf@atlantic.net>
Subject: Gurps Traveller Web Page

    The Gurps homepage says that Gurps Traveller doesn't have a web
page, but it does.

    http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/Traveller/

Enjoy.

Eric Freitas

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 12:43:55 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...

In a message dated 98-01-25 09:41:55 EST, you write:

<< 
 I have to stand by by *feeling* that rules for KKM missiles, HE weapons,
 and such need to be made, simply because they are canon. Even if some
 sort of handwave is necessary, the fact remains that a great deal of
 previous material use these items, and some of us (myself included) are
 playing campaigns that span a decade (or more). One of the biggest
 referee problems I had with TNE and then T4 was the fact that a great
 number of my starship designs were invalidated overnight - sure, I could
 continue to use the old rules, but I WANTED to use the new stuff, 'cause
 in a lot of ways its better. >>

I think there has to be a good system to handle explosives (and nukes).
Frankly, I think of most Artillery and Bombs as 'Battlefield Events." Players
don't use them; enemy doesn't direct them against just a band of adventurers.
They are instead events that happen.

Nevertheless there should be explosive effects rules (which I am writing) as
part of the Personal Combat system. That should be expanded to the Space
Combat system when I write that.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 12:34:39 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk writes:
>
>Too fast. I'm *extremely* unfit, but I can hold my breath for longer than
>42 
>
>seconds without passing out, and some people can manage 2-3 minutes. I
>suggest 
>
>you double these (ie 1 pt every other round).

Try "holding your breath" with no air in your lungs. 

Actually trying to keep air in your lungs is a sure-fire way to damage
yourself in a decompression situation.  IIRC, the correct technique is
hyperventilate for a while to increase your blood oxygen, then empty your
lungs, then depressurize.  Keep your eyes closed (so they aren't damaged
by freezing).

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 13:41:06 EST
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Return of Liaison Skill?

<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>In a message dated 1/24/98 10:39:54 AM Pacific
Standard Time, aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><< By the time you feel the recoil from the
first shot, <BR>
 the bullet has already left the gun, so it'll basically hit where you <BR>
 pointed it (which is DEX-based).  >><BR>
<BR>
Strength does play into the aiming of a rifle, IMO.  You have to be able to
hold a weapon VERY steady to hit a target, esp as the range increases.  This
can get difficult for some people (me, personally, trying to hold a 12.5# M-1
Garand on a target much beyond 300 yards would be ludicrous.)<BR>
<BR>
Having said that, I believe Dexterity also should play into the equation also.
I look at things like this:  Once the round (of any type) is fired, it will go
where it was aimed (barring any outside effects).  So the final firing
solution is the key to hitting the target (This is ESP true for lasers; you
can't evade a laser beam on a personal scale)<BR>
<BR>
My take is that for quick shots, Dex would be the default skill.  For aimed
fire, or longer-ranged shots, Strength would be the one to go with.<BR>
<BR>
Comments?<BR>
<BR>
Ed Jenkins (DustyLV769@aol.com)</HTML>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 12:43:47 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Imperial Music (was: Soliciting for Freelance Traveller)

jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com writes:
> I'm asking for the assistance of someone that's musically
>talented: I'd like a audio files (preferably .mid format) of the
>Imperial Anthem and of the Emperor's March
[snip]
>
>At the moment, there's another problem: neither has been written.
>
>I'd appreciate it if someone could write them.

Actually, someone has written the Imperial Anthem.  IIRC, it's set to the
Jupiter theme from Holst's The Planets.

I'm afraid I don't have the words (although I'd like them) - that file
disappeared during one of many system crashes* last year.  


*I suggested that we call our shiny new Windows NY system YoYoNet, but for
some reason no one but the other users agreed :-)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 12:54:52 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator

"Christopher E. Webb" <cwebb@ctos.com> writes:
>
>I am posting this to the TML in order to see if there is interest in
>
>software like this -- it's about 1/3-1/2 of the proposal I'm submitting
>for
>
>my software programming project I need to do for my degree. 


I wrote one for the Macintosh (Metator) and Dave Burden did one for the
Atari, but I don't think anyone's done one for the PC yet.  I can tell you
that there _is_ a lot of pent-up demand, judging by my email :-)

If you decide to do this, I suggest that we collaborate wrt file format
and menu structure (especially file format).  That was things look like a
single package, everyone can share data.

I have access to CodeWarrior for both PC and Mac, so if you are using that
development environment we can swap code, do a cross-compile, etc.

Metator does everything you plan on doing, plus more.  We should probably
discuss the details by private email, though.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 10:55:40 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...

The Akins wrote:
> 
> I'm not trying to stir up a hornets nest, but...
[snip] 
> Its much easier to add such rules (to restore canon) and then ignore
> them if you wish - than to not have the rules at all and ignore previous
> versions of the Traveller universe.
> 
> Just my $.02
> 
> Andrew Akins
> --
I'll add my $.02 to that as well. How would that affect your ship design
program (latest version or older) which is an excellent program I might
add, and I have just got into using it. 

Jim Cooper

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 14:01:15 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

>Send me the info and I'll put it on my page.  As to learning HTML
>yourself, it is ridiculously easy.  I wish BASIC had been as easy to
>master.  I mastered most of the HTML commands in 3 hours after the very
>first time I saw any source code.  What helped was www.htmlgoodies.com

You didn't learn it all in 3 hours.  All that time you spent learning how
BASIC worked and whatever other programming languages and applications you
may know how to use were part of the process.  With your background, it was
easy.  For others it may take as long or longer than it took you to learn
BASIC.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 19:48:48 -0000
From: Alex Ferrie <daishan@malkier.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

On 25 January 1998 06:21, Marcus & Lurann Teter 
[SMTP:galileo@montana.campus.mci.net] wrote:
(snip)

>  Lastly, there
> will have to be pilots to run the shuttle service between the starship and
> the ground once they arrive at the new world.

Why would the ship be left in orbit. Surely it would be landed and cannibalised 
for the resources it represents ( particularly the computer tech and 
generators). It would be much more convenient to have it on the ground than 
floating two or three hundred miles overhead.

Alex Ferrie

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 19:43:00 -0000
From: Alex Ferrie <daishan@malkier.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Graphics formats/resolution

I'd vote for 300dpi JPEG for all types. JPEG gives the advantage of files that 
aren't too meaty in size and most people now can print at least 300 dpi.


Alex Ferrie

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 13:27:30 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Graphics formats/resolution

 
>I'd vote for 300dpi JPEG for all types. JPEG gives the advantage of files that 
> aren't too meaty in size and most people now can print at least 300 dpi.

I'd normally say the same thing, but for display images, all it
means is that the image will be giant (at 72-96 dpi on the screen).

I have the National Geographic CD set, and I think it's nearly
useless, even with a 20 inch monitor.  That CD set requires that you
either view pages too small to read, or at the resolution of the
pages (which are just images). That means that the probably 150 dpi
images make the magazine twice its normal size onscreen. As a result
you have to scroll around a single page even on my monitor. Yuck :-)

I'd design the display pages to look nice on an average screen.
Maybe one page wide takes up ~600 pixels, then scroll down that
page, then click to the next, and so forth. You can add justo-recto
pages for people with big monitors. Just my Cr0.02.

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 98 20:30 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: FLGS

I was chatting to the owner of my Friendly Local Games Shop today, and 
I asked him how well T4 was selling. "Extremely well" was his answer.

The shop is called Travelling Man, and they've recently got online 
(email only atm, but an all-singing, all-dancing web site will be up 
RSN). They've got quite a lot of 2nd hand CT, MT, and TNE stuff. 
Contact tmanleeds@aol.com and tell 'em I sent you.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 15:03:57 -0600
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Computer Computational Rating Transfer Rates

Below is my ideas for expanding the computational ratings in CSC.

This a *crude* attempt to duplicate the multiplexing that we have today,
that gives us 33.3 baud data transfers when the actual rate is only 2400 baud.

Let me know what you think.

Single radio channel maximum transmission rate is 2, for every 5 radio
channels dedicated to data transmission increase the rate by 1.

Tight beam communications such as laser and maser have a single channel
transmission rate of 3, for every 2 channels dedicated to data transmission
increase the rate by 1.

Fiber optic data transmission rate is equal to the highest computer rating
of the computers tech level.

- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 15:04:36 -0600
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Bringing FFS2 Into Line with T4 Book 1

Due to the *incomplete* nature of FFS2, the computers in same, are not in
line with what T4 book 1 and its computational rating system. CSC does an
expansion of the Computers and the ratings.

Below is an attempt on my part to bring FFS2 computers into the
computational rating type system and expand CSC's system.

It takes a lot of information from CSC and continues with the progression
into something can be used in FFS2.

10 Specialized Computers equals a +1 computer rating only for the
specialized task.  A -1 to all non-specialized tasks.

100 Specialized Computers equals a +3 computer rating only for the
specialized task. A -3 to all non-specialized tasks.

On Board Diagnostics
       Rating
USP    Required   Displacement
6        0        9.9 or less
7        1        10 to 99.9
8        2        100 to 999.9	
9        3        1,000 to 9,999.9	
10       4        10,000 to 99,999.9	
11       5        100,000 to 999,999.9	
12       6        1,000,000 to 9,999,999.9
13       7        10,000,000 to 99,999,999.9
14       8        100,000,000 to 999,999,999.9
15       9        1,000,000,000 to 9,999,999,999.9

Jump Calculation Program Rating
Jump Number times 2 equals program rating

Jump Drive Computer (Monitor)
Maximum Jump Number divided by 2 with a minimum Rating of 1.

Fire Control Software Rating
Range(Km)              Rating
5                        0
50                       1
500                      2
5,000                    3
50,000                   4
500,000                  5
5,000,000                6
50,000,000     (0.3 AU)  7
500,000,000    (3 AU)    8
5,000,000,000  (30 AU)   9
50,000,000,000 (300 AU)  10

Point Defense function adds 1 to the software rating
Indirect Fire function adds 1 to the software rating

Fire Direction Center(FDC) Software Rating
Number 
of Weapons            Rating
1-9                     0
10-99                   1
100-999                 2
1,000-9,999             3
10,000-99,999           4
100,000-999,999         5
1,000,000-9,999,999     6

Master Fire Direction Center(MFDC) Software adds 2 to the rating of FDC
Software

For a FDC with a range of 5,000km and 10 weapons, the be total software
rating would be 4, if it was a MFDC the rating would be 6.

I have an expanded computer chart with computers above and below the ones
listed in CSC, that I can post for those interested.

More later.



- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 15:04:59 -0600 (CST)
From: Joseph Heck <ccjoe@showme.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: Re Time of Death for Spacing

Del Jones said:
> I think that the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy
> said something about 30 seconds.

In terms of documents, I found and kept a copy of NASA's article:
"How long can a human live unprotected in space"

http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/sa/sd/intro/vacuum.html

- -- 
 joe                          (573) 884-6766
 ccjoe@showme.missouri.edu    http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/
 PGP Fingerprint: E3 3F DF 08 BE 3E 44 A0  EE A9 80 7E 22 99 CD DF

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 98 21:54 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

In-Reply-To: <fc.00003c54004d7a7e3b9aca005d9f45de.a09b@nybe.on.ca>

Rob,

> >Too fast. I'm *extremely* unfit, but I can hold my breath for longer than
> >42 
> >
> >seconds without passing out, and some people can manage 2-3 minutes. I
>  
> Try "holding your breath" with no air in your lungs.

That I can't do for as long, but I think that's more from discomfort than 
the fact I'm about to pass out.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 98 21:54 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: RE: Graphics formats/resolution

In-Reply-To: <01BD29CB.E2AF96A0.daishan@malkier.demon.co.uk>

Alex,

> I'd vote for 300dpi JPEG for all types. JPEG gives the advantage of files 
that 
> aren't too meaty in size

For things like photographs, .JPGs are fine, but for line drawings or picture 
with large blocks of colour, .GIFs are usually better. No single format is 
perfect for all cases.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 16:56:51 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

Ok, to jump in a bit on this subject, I've also done a bit of thinking on
this, form the point of veiw that this is how the homeworld/colony of my
campaign started and I've begun to try and write a cohesive history. In part
I believe that this depends on the era and the world launching the colony
ship,

In my campaign the colony was one of several secret colonies launched at
random from Terra, when the threat of Vilani conquest was still a major
factor. In my scenario the colony ships were sub-light, since they were
intended to travel large distances from Sol, to hide them better, and the
Jump 1 drive would have been to inefficient, so speed was lost for distance.

Anyway, at this time it was already established that Terra is higher in
biological sciences than the First Imp., and extrapolateing a bit from
current science I picture the ship being about 90% robotic controled, witha
very small mainenence crew in low berths. THe remaining "living" colonists
consist of frozen genetic material, several 10's of thousands of donors
contributing.

The ship also carries robotic construction equipment. Once a suitable world
is found the cargo space emptied while the robotic constructor begin laying
the foundation of the colony infrastructure. In the empty holds artifical
wombs are set up in the cleared space and genetic matrial is started to
grow. The small crew continue to use cold sleep to "hop" forward and monitor
the growth of their colonists, and of the computer controlled subliminal
traing. When a batch is "finished" it's released, again supervised for a
period by a teacher, and another batch is started.

Mix in normal population growth factors and you have a fairly large gene
pool with new introduction every 17-18 years to keep it viable. Also the
cryogenic "teachers" appearing at regular intervals should aid in
stabilizing the society, (remember these are colonies intended to insure the
continuence of the Terran race and culture). After several generations,
about the time the teachers run out of extended life, a viable colony should
exist.

This also leads to some neat variations. In one scenario I can envision the
"First Born" or even the original crew, setting them selves up as dictators,
dispite being chosen phycologically to avoid this. It could even lead to a
relegion with the "Return of the Teachers" at it's heart.

Well, just my slant on how this could work,

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: Marcus & Lurann Teter <galileo@montana.campus.mci.net>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Cc: igor@ames.net <igor@ames.net>
Date: Sunday, January 25, 1998 12:23 AM
Subject: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony
Ship


>>Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:18:31 -0600
>>From: "Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net>
>>Subject: Low Tech Colony Ship (long)
>>
>>I've been playing around with designing a low-tech colony ship (around TL
>>9).
>
>I've been messing around with the same.  First off, let me say that the
>design is excellent.  Andrew clearly spent a considerable amount of time on
>it.
>
>> Here are the parameters for my design - I don't claim that these are
>>good choices for starting up a colony, I've done little or no research on
>>the matter...

<SNIP>
>>
>>* 1000 Colonists
>
<Snip>
>
>My guess would be 10000 , but I am biased since that is the number of
>people I wanted for my colony to begin with.  Clearly, 100000 is too many
>and 100 is too few.  What says the list-folk?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 98 15:36:19 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Thrusters [A ZPF explanation]

On 01/25/98 at 10:12 AM,  "Eric Freitas" <edf@atlantic.net> said:

>The vacuum of space is not empty.  It is filled with virtual particles
>that appear and disappear in only a fraction of a
>second.   These virtual particles have electric and magnetic
>fields associated with them.  When an object accelerates
>through these fields, the fields associated with your own
>particles become phase shifted relative to the fields of the
>virtual particles.  This phase shift induces a release of 
>radiation that is opposite the direction of acceleration.
>This radiation creates a measurable force known as
>inertia.

>    By applying the correct type of electromagnetic field
>to an object, say a thrust plate, for inducing a phase shift
>without accelerating, you can cause an object to accelerate.
>This is kind of like reverse inertia.  So the plate doesn't 
>create a warp in space-time to propel the ship, it just uses
>the vacuum flux to create reverse inertia.

This comes from the HPR theory, doesn't it?  ;->  

It's not really "reverse inertia", though, they are adamant about there
being no negative mass of any kind..neither gravitational or inertial mass
can be negative.  

Anyway, from my reading of their theories, they seem to say you *might* be
able to *cancel* some or all of the inertia caused by accelerating a parton
through the ZPF. This would give us Grav-Compensators. BTW, they say a
perfered inertial frame is possible, but a perfered gravitational frame is
not.

It also looks like they think you might be able to induce an inertial
effect directly with an EM field. Because inertia is caused by interactions
within the ZPF from secondary fields created by accelerating partons if you
induced the *effect* directly the parton would have to accelerate. Thus you
would get acceleration without expending reaction mass.  

IAC, the same theory that connects inertia (and inertial mass) to EM also
connects gravity (and gravitational mass) to EM, so, we can handle CG the
same way. It appears to me that blocking gravitation effect might be
possible, but I don't think you could produce thrust with gravity.

Folks, there is an interesting article on io.com in the GURPS file section
on reactionless thrusters written by MA Lloyd. I don't have an exact URL,
but if you look you can find it. I guess coming up with a handwave is
something we *all* have a problem with. ;->

OK, we've had several suggested handwaves for how Thrusters could work.
What I want to know is what are the *side effects* from each method?  If we
induce gravity at distance, what does that do to repluser/presser
technology? If we block or induce inertia what effect does that have on
power production? If we apply EM to produce thrust directly at over unity,
then are we creating unlimited power production? If we induce inertial
thrust, or block inertial force, then what happens to the system's momentum
when we turn the drive off?

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 17:31:59 EST
From: TDRandall <TDRandall@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator

WOW - if you do make it, I'd like a copy, please!

I've always dreamed of doing something similar, just never found the time to
dig into the specifics and actually doing it.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 14:00:09 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

In mail you write:

>>> This is based on the T4.1 hit system (abridged pertinent version
>>> below).  By my reading, the average guy will survive 42 seconds
>>> before unconsciousness and be dead in about 2 minutes.
 
>> Too fast. I'm *extremely* unfit, but I can hold my breath for longer
>> than 42 seconds without passing out, and some people can manage 2-3
>> minutes. I suggest you double these (ie 1 pt every other round).

> I do no excersizing at all and live a very sedementary lifestyle.
> I've had 2 hours of sleep today and am weak from it.  I just timed
> myself for holding my breath and went for 1:30:49ths.  I think I can
> go longer if I really try.

Uh, guys?

Holding your breath with a 1 atmosphere (positive) pressure
differential between your lungs and the outside of your body. is
*guaranteed* to cause major lung damage and the bends, if not just
plain air embolisms due to ruptured alevioli(sp). Oh yeah, you'll also
rupture both eardrums.

It's no different than a scuba diver holding his breath while making a
quick ascent from 10 meters. The results are *not* pretty or pleasant.

Marc's figures are *correct*. They are based on NASA and USAF research
on chimps as well as a couple of accidents (on the ground) that left
humans exposed to vacuum.

I suggest that Marc revise the rules on Vacuum exposure to explicitly
state that one should *not* attempt to hold one's breath, and to give
some fairly serious damage if someone tries. 

In fact, it might be an idea to incorporate an couple of paragraphs
thast are supposedly an excerpt from an "in case of emergency"
pamphlet. I'd be willing to try writing such a thing, though I'm sure
that others will have lots of input.

- -------------------------
Tukera Lines Emergency Procedures pamphlet, (c) 1 Imperial.
Section 7, Loss of Pressure emergency:

While loss of pressure is extrememly unlikely, it pays to be prepared. 
If the pressure alarm goes off, the rescue ball storage units will open
automatically. Your steward will have shown you how to use one, and
instructions are on the door as well. 

<skip instructions on rescue ball use>

If the area of the ship you are in loses pressure before you can get to
a rescue ball, do *not* attempt to hold your breath. The pressure
difference between your lungs and the vacuum can cause serious damage.
Instead, open your mouth *wide* and try to yawn. This will help open
the air passages to your ears and prevent damage to them. 

Vacuum can cause moderate damage to eyes through excessive drying and
freezing of evaporating fluids. Close your eyes and open them for brief
"blinks". Persistence of vision will let you navigate quite well and
still protect the delicate tissues. You might want to practice this
now. Close your eyes and try to move around your cabin while blinking
them open once or twice a second. 

If you are in a portion of the ship that loses pressure, you'll have
30-40 seconds to get to pressure before you start to lose conciousness.
Don't worry. 30 seconds is a *lot* of time. Just remain calm and follow
the instructions above and you'll be fine. And you'll have quite a
story for your friends when you return home.
- ----------------------------

Well, anyone have any additions or changes to make?

BTW, it occurs to me that a pamphlet such as a spaceline might hand out
to passengers would be a *neat* thing to throw together. Sort of like
the ones airlines put in seatbacks or (I assume) cruise ships put in
stateroooms. 

Either include it with the rules, use it as a promo item, or come up
with some other "background" goodies of the same sort and sell them as
a package (sort of like the "Miskatonic Matriculation Module" for
CofC).

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #41
*********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Sunday, January 25 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 042



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy
Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator
Re: Q: Zhodani Ship Configuration (?)
Re: posting WD material
Re: conservation of momentum
Re: conservation of momentum
Re: low-tech ship design
re: Computer Computational Rating Transfer Rates
Traveller Pages Updated
Software Survey
Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy
Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator
Re: Computer Computational Rating Transfer Rates
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
re: Computer Computational Rating Transfer Rates
Re: Q: Zhodani Ship Configuration (?)
Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator
Re: conservation of momentum
Re: conservation of momentum
Re: Artificial gravity
Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 17:54:04 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

At 03:04 PM 1/25/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>Send me the info and I'll put it on my page.  As to learning HTML
>>yourself, it is ridiculously easy.  I wish BASIC had been as easy to
>>master.  I mastered most of the HTML commands in 3 hours after the very
>>first time I saw any source code.  What helped was www.htmlgoodies.com
>
>You didn't learn it all in 3 hours.  All that time you spent learning how
>BASIC worked and whatever other programming languages and applications you
>may know how to use were part of the process.  With your background, it was
>easy.  For others it may take as long or longer than it took you to learn
>BASIC.
> 

You learn to program (normally) only once, and it's generally not easy.
You learn language syntaxes every time you encounter a new language, and it
can (depending on the language) get quite easy...

Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 16:59:49 -0600
From: Alex Rebsch <grazzit@flash.net>
Subject: Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator

>What other features would be needed to make the system generator software
>package useful?  Does anyone think something like this would be useful?
>I'd really like some feedback (either directly to me or to the list) so
>that I can convince my professors that there is demand for software.
>
>Thanks, 
>Christopher Webb
>cwebb@ctos.com
> 

This would be most useful. But the feature that would make it even better
would be the ability to import sector uwp data. So that you can use it in
conjunction with the Third Imperium and not have to start from scratch. If
you could import the basic uwp data and then have the program do all the
detailing it would be perfect.

Just my 2 cents.

Alex Rebsch
grazzit@flash.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 14:53:20 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Q: Zhodani Ship Configuration (?)

In mail you write:

> I'd like some opinions.
>
> Most of us should be familiar with the typified Zhodani ship shape: the one
> made popular by FASA, which has appeared on various Imperial unit logos
> (usually in the center of crosshairs). Just in case, it's a small diamond
> on the end of a long neck, with an oblong main hull shape (the picture is a
> much better reference).
>
> My question is what hull configuration it would fall under. I'm torn
> between wedge and medium or long rounded cylinders, but then again it might
> also qualify as some other shape.

Treat it as two hulls. One for the oblong, one for the neck.

This approach will even let you design such silliness as the NCC-1701
version of the USS Enterprise.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 14:39:49 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: posting WD material

In mail you write:

> Andy,
>
>   Insofar as posting articles from the White Dwarf to the list or Web I think
> you need both the permission of the author of the article (while I've never
> had an traveller author no yet, there could always be the first time. And of
> course some of them are probably unavailable for contact without a lot of
> looking) and the owner of the copyright (in this case GW).

Actually, GW may *not* hold the copyright. It depends on both the
wording of their "standard contract" and on any special terms the
author may have gotten. 

What gaming magazines *should* be asking for is "serial rights" (ie,
they are the only magazine that can publish it), plus some reprint
rights (so they don't have to track down the author to include the
article in a "best of" compilation). They may additionally want some
derivative rights (so that if they like the idea, they can put a
modified form in the rules or future articles), but also allow the
*author* derivative rights.

Note that I say *should*, above. That's because what I list allows the
author to do various things that are reasonable, but also allows the
magazine to make reasonable use of the article. 

Relity is rather different. From what I hear, most gaming mags buy
*all* the rights. Which means that the author essentially has no say in
what they do with it, and can't use it himself! 

In that latter case, *only* GW can give you permission.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 14:56:41 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: conservation of momentum

In mail you write:

>>> set on your proposed rubber sheet and reach out my hand and press down on
>>> it.  Since it is perfectly frictionless, I'll slide into the dimple I've
>>> made.  Then I pull my hand out from under me and press down again.  I'll
>>> keep pressing down until I get to where I'm going.  (In the audience,
> hands
>>> clap as I wave the one that brought me here.)
>>
>>Nice try. But if you are pushing down on the sheet in "front" of you,
>>you are *lessening* the push your ship makes. Also, you *won't* fall
>>into the dimple, as you are creating it a *fixed* distance in front of
>>you (the length of your arm). To get closer to it, you'd have to pull
>>in your arm.
>
> No, I just push down until I slid in.  I can exert sufficient strength to
> make the small dimple deeper than the one holding my (unfortuanaly rather
> large) butt.

How? The force you exert depends on weight. *Period*.

>>And it takes work (energy) both to make the dimple, and to pull in your
>>arm while maintaining the dimple.
>
> I won't argue about the first part, but I'm not going to pull in my arm
> while maintaining the dimple.  Once I slid into it, I won't need to keep
> holding down.

But if you *don't* pull in your arm, you'll not be *able* to slide in.
Instead you'd have your hand in the dimple, and your arm *holding*
you away from sliding in. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 14:59:25 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: conservation of momentum

In mail you write:

> At 2:31 PM -0500 1/24/98, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>> I like this one best of all.  I don't need to grab anything or throw any
>>> thing or use ropes or wagons or metal objects or magnets or anything.  
> I'll
>>> set on your proposed rubber sheet and reach out my hand and press down on
>>> it.  Since it is perfectly frictionless, I'll slide into the dimple I've
>>> made.  Then I pull my hand out from under me and press down again.  I'll
>>> keep pressing down until I get to where I'm going.  (In the audience, 
> hands
>>> clap as I wave the one that brought me here.)
>>
>>Nice try. But if you are pushing down on the sheet in "front" of you,
>>you are *lessening* the push your ship makes. Also, you *won't* fall
>>into the dimple, as you are creating it a *fixed* distance in front of
>>you (the length of your arm). To get closer to it, you'd have to pull
>>in your arm.
>>
>>And it takes work (energy) both to make the dimple, and to pull in your
>>arm while maintaining the dimple.
>
> Okay, that's still reactionless, though.  It's an interesting analogy.
> If you created the deeper dimple ahead of you and lowered your ship
> down into it that would be thrust.
>
> The above is the best analogy for a reactionless drive I've ever seen.
> I'd love for someone to back that up from the analogy and make up
> some technobabble for it... maybe even something plausible.

Since to make a "deeper" dimple, you are effectively transferring your
ships mass to the dimple, and since this "drive" results in *no* change
in your momentum (at the beginning and end you still have the same
momentum) what you've got is stutterwarp!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 15:11:59 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: low-tech ship design

In mail you write:

>>While in real life double performance means 4 times fuel or energy
>>consumption, this is not expressed in FFS rules (I wont think that
>>its in FFS2)
> That's not particularly true for rockets - double the thrust of a rocket
> and you only double the fuel consumption. (Since, to first order,
> you can double the thrust by strapping two identical rockets together.)

But that doesn't *double the acceleration*. And it's *that* that uses 4
times the fuel.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 15:45:43 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: Computer Computational Rating Transfer Rates

>Tight beam communications such as laser and maser have a single channel
>transmission rate of 3, for every 2 channels dedicated to data transmission
>increase the rate by 1.

This probably understates the advantage of laser over radio - in space,
with sufficient power, laser data rates should be comparable to fibre
optics (="Really, Really High".) To be honest, getting things like this right
for extrapolated technology is so hard that I'm almost happier to leave it
fuzzy - though it pains my gearhead heart - unless a trained professional
with lots of experience in fibreoptics and (hypothetical) laser commo
takes it on.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 17:58:23 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Traveller Pages Updated

I've (finally) updated the Don Mills Collegiate Traveller site.  Changes
listed at:

www.interlog.com/~dmci104/GamingClub/Traveller/newTraveller.html

Briefly: updated software and half-a-dozen new vehicles.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 98 20:27 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Software Survey

Hy Folks'n'Gurus,

	I'm playing with the idea of a CTrAN (Comprehensive Traveller
	Archive Network) for improving coordination of web publishing
	comunity. CTrAN should give us the same that CPAN is for Perl,
	and CTAN for TeX. A virtual network (traveller.org ;-) on which
	authors can participate, which is flood filled to the sites.
	Whenever a user connects to CTrAN a traceroute will try to find
	his position and forward him to the next CTrAN mirror. Like CPAN
	its also posible to mirror at home, so members allways have an
	actual and comprehensive "canon" at their fingertips.

	So my questions (please reply directly - I'll post the summary !-)

	Who would like the idea :
	- to have a mirror at home
	- to have a mirror at his providers homepage

	Who is able :
	- to install cgi/perl at home
	- to install cgi/perl at his providers homepage

	What is your Operating System :

	OS that would have large problems (no network, no browser)
	- DOS (Intel 8088-80268)
	- TOS (Atari)
	- DOS (Amiga)

	OS that have some problems (network, file conventions)
	- Mint (Atari)
	- MacOS (Mac 68K)
	- MacOS (Mac PPC)
	- WinDows (Intel)
	- NT (Intel)

	OS that have few porting problems
	- Unix/Linux/BSD (independent of processor)
	- Mach (Mac)
	- Rhapsody (Mac)

	Is HotJava or NetScape available at your home platform ?
	Is your provider allowing CGI ?
	Is your provider using a unix look like system ?

	And last not least. Do you think that you are "guru" on your
	OS, to become alpha tester (no unlike Linux this wont become
	sponsored by DEC) and help other people sharing your platform
	with their installation problems ?

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 15:58:08 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

At 02:01 PM 1/25/98 -0600, you wrote:

>You didn't learn it all in 3 hours.  All that time you spent learning how
>BASIC worked and whatever other programming languages and applications you
>may know how to use were part of the process.  With your background, it was
>easy.  For others it may take as long or longer than it took you to learn
>BASIC.

The very first language I learned was HTML.  No BASIC, no nothing (with
Craig around, who needed to learn?)  It took me about two hours to grasp
the basics of writing HTML, and a few weeks of practise to become competent
with it.
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 16:11:55 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator

Alex Rebsch wrote:
> But the feature that would make it even better
> would be the ability to import sector uwp data. So that you can use it in
> conjunction with the Third Imperium and not have to start from scratch. If
> you could import the basic uwp data and then have the program do all the
> detailing it would be perfect.
> 

That's got my vote as well.

Jim Cooper

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 16:30:41 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Computer Computational Rating Transfer Rates

In mail you write:

>
> Below is my ideas for expanding the computational ratings in CSC.
>
> This a *crude* attempt to duplicate the multiplexing that we have today,
> that gives us 33.3 baud data transfers when the actual rate is only 2400 
> baud.

It's *not* multiplexing. And we are getting 33.6k *bps* over a 2400
baud link. In short, it's just the way we modulate. The real limits are
set by Shannon's law, which works in bps. 

> Let me know what you think.
>
> Single radio channel maximum transmission rate is 2, for every 5 radio
> channels dedicated to data transmission increase the rate by 1.
>
> Tight beam communications such as laser and maser have a single channel
> transmission rate of 3, for every 2 channels dedicated to data transmission
> increase the rate by 1.
>
> Fiber optic data transmission rate is equal to the highest computer rating
> of the computers tech level.

It's actually a lot "simpler". Max bps is determined by bandwidth. And
for a given signal to noise ratio, doubling the bandwidth, doubles the
bps. 

So for a channel X hertz wide, you can send Y bps. make it 2X wide, and
you can send 2Y bps.

	Shannon's Law:

	C= W log2( 1 + S/N )

	C = throughput in bits per second
	W = bandwidth in hertz
	S/N = signal to noise ratio


- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 16:38:26 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

In mail you write:

>>  Lastly, there
>> will have to be pilots to run the shuttle service between the starship and
>> the ground once they arrive at the new world.
>
> Why would the ship be left in orbit. Surely it would be landed and
> cannibalised for the resources it represents ( particularly the
> computer tech and generators). It would be much more convenient to
> have it on the ground than floating two or three hundred miles
> overhead.

Because designing it to be *able* to land is both very difficult, and
adds a *lot* of mass, both for fuel and for engines and bracing.
Remember, we are alraeady talking about something the size of a small
city. 

It's still possible to cannibalize most of the ship if you use
shuttles. And the part left in orbit can be useful for weather
observation as well as other forms of satellite recon.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 19:37:29 -0600
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: re: Computer Computational Rating Transfer Rates

At 03:45 PM 1/25/98 -0800, Bruce Alan Macintosh wrote:
>>Tight beam communications such as laser and maser have a single channel
>>transmission rate of 3, for every 2 channels dedicated to data transmission
>>increase the rate by 1.
>
>This probably understates the advantage of laser over radio - in space,
>with sufficient power, laser data rates should be comparable to fibre
>optics (="Really, Really High".) To be honest, getting things like this right
>for extrapolated technology is so hard that I'm almost happier to leave it
>fuzzy - though it pains my gearhead heart - unless a trained professional
>with lots of experience in fibreoptics and (hypothetical) laser commo
>takes it on.

I agree about leaving it fuzzy. so lets increase it to single channel
transmission rate of 4. for every 2 channels dedicated to data transmission
increase the rate by 1.

- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 19:51:01 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Q: Zhodani Ship Configuration (?)

>> I'd like some opinions.
>>
>> Most of us should be familiar with the typified Zhodani ship shape: the
one
>> made popular by FASA, which has appeared on various Imperial unit logos
>> (usually in the center of crosshairs). Just in case, it's a small diamond
>> on the end of a long neck, with an oblong main hull shape (the picture is
a
>> much better reference).
>>
>> My question is what hull configuration it would fall under. I'm torn
>> between wedge and medium or long rounded cylinders, but then again it
might
>> also qualify as some other shape.
>
>Treat it as two hulls. One for the oblong, one for the neck.
>
>This approach will even let you design such silliness as the NCC-1701
>version of the USS Enterprise.

For which of course you need 4 hulls.  A large disk, a larger long cylinder
and 2 smaller longer cylinders.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 19:48:44 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator

>What other features would be needed to make the system generator software
>package useful?  Does anyone think something like this would be useful?
>I'd really like some feedback (either directly to me or to the list) so
>that I can convince my professors that there is demand for software.
>
>Thanks,
>Christopher Webb
>cwebb@ctos.com

I would very much like a copy of the software package you are considering
developing.

Richard

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 19:57:18 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: conservation of momentum

>>>> set on your proposed rubber sheet and reach out my hand and press down
on
>>>> it.  Since it is perfectly frictionless, I'll slide into the dimple
I've
>>>> made.  Then I pull my hand out from under me and press down again.
I'll
>>>> keep pressing down until I get to where I'm going.  (In the audience,
>> hands
>>>> clap as I wave the one that brought me here.)
>>>
>>>Nice try. But if you are pushing down on the sheet in "front" of you,
>>>you are *lessening* the push your ship makes. Also, you *won't* fall
>>>into the dimple, as you are creating it a *fixed* distance in front of
>>>you (the length of your arm). To get closer to it, you'd have to pull
>>>in your arm.
>>
>> No, I just push down until I slid in.  I can exert sufficient strength to
>> make the small dimple deeper than the one holding my (unfortuanaly rather
>> large) butt.
>
>How? The force you exert depends on weight. *Period*.
>
>>>And it takes work (energy) both to make the dimple, and to pull in your
>>>arm while maintaining the dimple.
>>
>> I won't argue about the first part, but I'm not going to pull in my arm
>> while maintaining the dimple.  Once I slide into it, I won't need to keep
>> holding down.
>
>But if you *don't* pull in your arm, you'll not be *able* to slide in.
>Instead you'd have your hand in the dimple, and your arm *holding*
>you away from sliding in.

You implication is that I will have to "pull" in order to slide.

OTOH, maybe I won't pull in my hand and I will use the force of the slide to
push it forward in a kind of continual riding the wave rather than a pulsed
movement as described earlier, now wouldn't that be a trick.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 21:28:07 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: conservation of momentum

At 07:57 pm 1/25/98 -0600, you wrote:
>>>>> set on your proposed rubber sheet and reach out my hand and
press down
>on
>>>>> it.  Since it is perfectly frictionless, I'll slide into
the dimple
>I've
>>>>> made.  Then I pull my hand out from under me and press down
again.
>I'll
>>>>> keep pressing down until I get to where I'm going.  (In the
audience,
>>> hands
>>>>> clap as I wave the one that brought me here.)
>>>>
>>>>Nice try. But if you are pushing down on the sheet in "front"
of you,
>>>>you are *lessening* the push your ship makes. Also, you
*won't* fall
>>>>into the dimple, as you are creating it a *fixed* distance in
front of
>>>>you (the length of your arm). To get closer to it, you'd have
to pull
>>>>in your arm.
>>>
>>> No, I just push down until I slid in.  I can exert sufficient
strength to
>>> make the small dimple deeper than the one holding my
(unfortuanaly rather
>>> large) butt.
>>
>>How? The force you exert depends on weight. *Period*.
>>
>>>>And it takes work (energy) both to make the dimple, and to
pull in your
>>>>arm while maintaining the dimple.
>>>
>>> I won't argue about the first part, but I'm not going to pull
in my arm
>>> while maintaining the dimple.  Once I slide into it, I won't
need to keep
>>> holding down.
>>
>>But if you *don't* pull in your arm, you'll not be *able* to
slide in.
>>Instead you'd have your hand in the dimple, and your arm
*holding*
>>you away from sliding in.
>
>You implication is that I will have to "pull" in order to slide.

	Actually, even assuming you can "reach out" and cause a dimple
elsewhere in space, it won't do you any good. You see, if you've
got two dimples, there's *still* a "ridge" between them. Like
this:


*                                     *
  *                                 *
    *                             *
      *                **       *
        *            *    *   *
          *        *        * 
            *    *
               *  

	So you've got to completely lift yourself up and transfer your
entire weight elsewhere... which is going to be quite energy
consuming no matter how you do it. 
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj
- --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he
establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 22:38:56 +0000
From: "Bill Hopper" <whopper@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Artificial gravity

In CT, we always played it that the grav field generators were only  
in the "ceilings".  Grav generators could only "push", not "pull".  
This tied in nicely with the fact that in CT, repulsors were 
available at TL 10 as bay-mounted defenses but tractor beams were not 
available at all until above Imperial tech levels.  

This was reversed in MT and now in T4, and I never understood why.  
Personally, I liked the "push" idea.  Tractor beams are to me too 
Trekkish.  The lack of them, to me, was part of what made Traveller 
different from other SF games.

(Not wanting to restart the "what is Travelleresque" thread.)
WKH

> >FF&S2 says, "Artificial gravity inertial compensators create an artificial
> >gravity field directed between the deck plates of a ship to provide a
> >constant gravity field.  The generators are also tied into the ship's
> >computer, which varies the field strength to counteract the effects of a
> >ship's acceleration, up to a maximum level."
> >
> >Does any one have any problems with this?
> 
> It's an interesting change that the artificial grav field is "directed
> between the deck plates" rather than upward from the lower plate which is,
> I think, the older explanation.  This new explanation makes it easier to
> argue against using the same technology to generate "repulsors" or "tractor
> beams" since it is implied that there need to be two plates or nodes
> involved.
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 20:39:16 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

> >You didn't learn it all in 3 hours.  All that time you spent learning how
> >BASIC worked and whatever other programming languages and applications you
> >may know how to use were part of the process.  With your background, it was
> >easy.  For others it may take as long or longer than it took you to learn
> >BASIC.
> > 
> 
> You learn to program (normally) only once, and it's generally not easy.
> You learn language syntaxes every time you encounter a new language, and it
> can (depending on the language) get quite easy...
> 


He's right though, I spent hours and days teaching myself BASIC back in
the early 80's.  Since then I've learned many different versions of
BASIC.  I think the most difficult one to work with was the C/PM based
version that came on the Hewlett Packard 120 and 125 systems.  It
utilized a very cumbersome predecessor to modern ANSI.  For instance,
clearing the screen and homing the cursor was done by sending a CTRL-J
and CTRL-H sequence.

Commodore BASIC was hands-down the easiest, with Applesoft somewhere in
between.  Right now my problem is Visual BASIC 4.0, which I have, but do
not know at all.  I've seen a few examples of code but they hardly make
any sense to me.  Sometimes I'll see "Private Sub" and sometimes I'll
just see "Sub".  Anyone know any basic syntax rules for this language? 
Or any books that will teach me?

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #42
*********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Monday, January 26 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 043



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Graphics formats/resolution
AUCTION:  TRAVELLER CT\MT\TNE\T4 materials
Re: Graphics formats/resolution
Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...
Re: Q: Zhodani Ship Configuration (?)
Re: posting WD material
Re: Infini-V on PC (was: My spreadsheet...)
Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Decompression/T4.1 Hit System
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: Graphics formats/resolution
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
RE: Quoting, and the Vargr
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
re: Computer Computational Rating Transfer Rates

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 00:21:03 -0500
From: John H Bogan Jr <jbogan@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: Graphics formats/resolution

At 10:28 AM 1/25/1998 EST, you wrote:
>	As part of the CD-ROM project some example graphics have been put up to
test what might show up best on screen and on printers. 
>So I'd like everybody to have a chance to vote on the subject.
>
>	The site is at:
>	http://users.qrc.com/~wildstar/traveller/cdproject/
>    
>	I'd like answers to the following:    
>    
>	For the color screen shots, which of the following do you prefer:    
>90dpi jpeg			n    
>90dpi gif			n    
>150dpi jpeg		y	    
>150dpi gif		y	    
>300dpi jpeg		y	    
>300dpi gif		y	    
>    
>	For the color print shots, which do you prefer:    
>90dpi jpeg			n    
>90dpi gif			n    
>150dpi jpeg		y	n    
>150dpi gif		y	n    
>300dpi jpeg		y	n    
>300dpi gif		y	n    
>    
>	For the B&W screen shots, which do you prefer:    
>90dpi jpeg				n    
>90dpi gif 256-color			n
>90dpi gif  16-color			n
>150dpi jpeg			y	    
>150dpi gif 256-color	y	
>150dpi gif  16-color		n    
>300dpi jpeg			y	    
>300dpi gif 256-color	y	
>300dpi gif  16-color		n
>    
>	For the B&W print shots, which do you prefer:    
>90dpi jpeg					n
>90dpi gif 256-color				n
>90dpi gif  16-color				n    
>150dpi jpeg				y	
>150dpi gif 256 color		y	
>150dpi gif  16 color			n
>300dpi jpeg				y	
>300dpi gif 256 color		y	
>300dpi gif  16 color			n
>
>	Short one paragraph comments.
>

I don't have a color printer, so the color print
judgements are based on how they showed up in B&W.
The 90dpi versions had discernable pixel artefacts.
The higher dpis has sharper lettering and more faint
details showed up. In print and screen, the 150dpi
seemed to be the best balance between detail and size,
though I couldn't say whether gif or jpg were noticeably
better.    For B&W, the 16 colors are a definite no --
the grid mostly dropped out and there were a few other
minor flaws that made it look bad. The B&W 90dpi prints
had some blurring of details (like lettering). There
wasn't much difference between the higher dpis, so again
150 was better by dint of size, and here gif is better
due to some (very) faint "fuzz" around objects on the jpg.   

John Bogan

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 01:01:57 -0500
From: Peter Miller <pmiller@linkeasy.net>
Subject: AUCTION:  TRAVELLER CT\MT\TNE\T4 materials

Hi,

I've deciced to auction off my Traveller collection of materials ranging
from Classic to 4th Edition.  Some of the items below are in good shape,
and are good finds.

First, the rules:
1)  Please bid only with the intention of buying
2)  All bids in United States currency (even though I'm in Canada!)
3)  Buyer pays shipping from oakville, Ontario, Canada
4)  I reserve the right to remove items or reject bids without reason
5)  Only bids received at pmiller@linkeasy.net or ICQ#5294589 witll be
    processed and accepted.
6)  The auction begins January 26th 1998, 1am, and ends 2/9/98 midnight
7)  I reserve the right to increase or decrease the auction length
8)  All bidders are automatically placd on the mailing list.  E-mail me
    to be removed.

Second, the conditions guide (from Titan Games)
M=Mint       - We took it out of the shrinkwrap (for some reason)
and                  put it up for sale; looks like it's right from the
               printer's
NM=Near Mint - Corners or Binding have minimal or no wear
VF=Very Fine - Corners, Binding have small wear, 
               Cover may be slightly scuffed
F=Fine       - Corners, Binding, or Cover have wear or small creases
G=Good       - Corners, Binding, or Cover more wear, large creases or 
               scuffing
Fa=Fair      - Corners, Binding, or Cover very worn, many creases and
               much scuffing
P=Poor       - Corners, Binding, or Cover excessively worn, possible 
               tears in cover

Third, the items:  (latest bidder's alias and bid underneath) - MIN BID

MegaTraveller Boxed Set (Imperial Encyclopedia, Referee's Manual,
Player's Manual, Spinward Marches poster map) 
	- BOX is FAIR, CONTENTS are VERY FINE - MIN BID $10

Traveller Boxed Set, digest sized (Books 1-3) 
	- BOX is GOOD, CONTENTS are VERY FINE - MIN BID $10

Book 0: An Introduction to Traveller 
	- VERY FINE - MIN BID $3
Book 4: Mercenary 
	- FINE - MIN BID $5
Supplement 3: The Spinward Marches
	- FAIR - MIN BID $3
Adventure 9:  Nomad's of the World-Ocean 
	- VERY FINE - MIN BID  $5
Double Adventuee 3: Death Station\Argon Gambit 
	- VERY FINE - MIN BID $5

Double Adventure (FASA): The Stazhlekh Report\The Harrensa Project 
	- FINE - MIN BID $5

Marc Miller's Traveller Rulebook 
	- GOOD - MIN BID $10
Pocket Empires 
	- FINE\VERY FINE - MIN BID $8
Emperor's Arsenal 
	- MINT - MIN BID $6

Challenge Isuses #57\63
	- FINE - NO MIN BID
Challenge Issue #70 
	- FAIR - NO MIN BID
Megatrveller 101 Vehicles 
	- FINE - MIN BID $3
Megatraveller's Referee's Gaming Kit 
	- VERY FINE - MIN BID $10
Traveler: The New Era  Rulebook 
	- MINT - MIN BID $10

If you wish to put in a bid below the minimum bids I MAY be willing to
accept it.  E-mail it to pmiller@linkeasy.net

All bids to pmiller@linkeasy.net
- -- 
_________________________________Peter J. Miller
pmiller@linkeasy.net                ICQ #5294589
  ----> http://www.dragonfire.net/~pm/ <-----       
"When the first link in the chain is forged; the
first speech censored, the first thought 
forbidden, the first freedom denied; it chains
us all irrevocably." - Jeri Taylor

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 21:49:05 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Graphics formats/resolution

> details showed up. In print and screen, the 150dpi
> seemed to be the best balance between detail and size,
> though I couldn't say whether gif or jpg were noticeably
> better.    For B&W, the 16 colors are a definite no --
> the

I agree totally.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 01:10:46 EST
From: TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...

Andy Wrote:

>I have to stand by by *feeling* that rules for KKM missiles, HE weapons,
>and such need to be made, simply because they are canon. Even if some
>sort of handwave is necessary, the fact remains that a great deal of
>previous material use these items, and some of us (myself included) are
>playing campaigns that span a decade (or more). One of the biggest
>referee problems I had with TNE and then T4 was the fact that a great
>number of my starship designs were invalidated overnight - sure, I could
>continue to use the old rules, but I WANTED to use the new stuff, 'cause

    I assume you mean because of the Heplar/Thruster thing rather than KKMs? I
may well be wrong, but I see nowhere in any of my TNE stuff where it
explicitly said that kkms were unfeasable.  I learned that on this list.
There simply weren't any included w/ the space combat rules (generic or
Brilliant Lances).  Just make some and put them in and *pretend* that they
can't be counteracted w/o resorting to intricate measures like "bubba."
lol... damn that sounds funny. ; )
   Are you really saying that theres any way to keep CT and MT designed ships
valid w/ FFS1 or 2?  I never designed a ship w/ MT and have only seen a couple
of adventures w/ CT.  I presume capabilities should be evenly matched... i.e.
a 100 ton ship is gonna be a wimp any which way u look at it... a multi
thousand tonners are gonna be a helluva lot more capable of mounting numerous
weapons the size of that lil 100 ton ship, but details?  Maybe someone
talented in such matters should make a spreadsheet based on MT or HG and crack
out some ships and learn the limits?  OTOH, there are probably many people who
can already answer this.  Still, i'd find an MT ship design spreadsheet to be
very intriguing, for comparative value alone.

>Its like the HEPlaR and Thruster argument - some people just don't like
>thrusters. Fine - use HEPlaR. Some people are going to say (and they may
>be right) that KKMs and/or HE weapons are unrealistic and scientifically
>unsound. Fine - don't use them. But for those of us that for one reason
>or another are tied to older campaigns, the disapearance of these items
>(which ARE canon) is a source of small aggrevation.
>
>I would ask that rules for these items be added back to the Traveller
>rules - perhaps with a sidebar explaining that they are more "Fiction"
>than "Science" (you could also toss Thrusters in this sidebar). Thus, us
>old-timers that want 'em back would be happy - and newer players would
>know that they are sliding away from "hard sci-fi" if they use them.

This is exactly what TNE did w/ the Thruster Plates, along w/ a bunch of other
exotic M-drives.   Of course, the "old-timers" weren't very happy because it
wasn't the "official" way, but oh well.

>
>Its much easier to add such rules (to restore canon) and then ignore
>them if you wish - than to not have the rules at all and ignore previous
>versions of the Traveller universe.
>
     I don't really like HOW TNE went about going to all Heplar and
invalidating canon.  I do appreciate very much the WHY and agree w/ teh
reasoning.  I think Heplar is more "realistic," especially for a game that
claims to be based on Hard Science.    
     I have been becoming dangerously partial to Thruster plates in particular
and reactionless drives in general since finally acquiring a copy of the
Starship Operators Manual (before i had just tinkered w/ the idea).  I had
long decided I was going to allow reactionless drives in the purview of the
Ancients (along w/ some assorted other methods of ftl).  As it is now, i think
i'm going to make them (thruster plates) tl 17 or 18.  
    Of course, I had a brief notion of saying that the Imperium always used
them and that all of the designs I have (TNE) are just New Era conversions of
the ships.  Imperial Ships would have much lower crews and Tplates.  Then I
thought maybe Tplates cause some kind of pollution or make people go
sociopathic and its finally been discovered.  Maybe the 3I kept it under
wraps...  But i've never done anything more than brainstorm that and i'm
straying from topic... ; )
    I've also been contemplating putting lathanum hull grids back on.  In most
ships i've designed, i have plenty of surface area left over and i don't see a
problem w/ simply adding it on and taking away a little surface area of which
theres plenty.  Of course i can always just *pretend* that every ship has it
included w/ the hull for free and give a discount for ships that don't.
    

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 01:10:41 EST
From: TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Q: Zhodani Ship Configuration (?)

>>This approach will even let you design such silliness as the NCC-1701
>>version of the USS Enterprise.
>
>For which of course you need 4 hulls.  A large disk, a larger long cylinder
>and 2 smaller longer cylinders.

Since the primary hull (saucer) is supposed to be a seperate vehicle from the
secondary (the 3 cylinders), maybe make 2 hull and a grapple for them.  Make
it a jettison grapple since on 1701 it was supposed to only be reattachable at
a starbase and the 1701-D a standard grapple.  
   Since the 2 smaller longer cylinders are supposed to be the warp nacelles
you don't have to worry bout them.  
   I guess the combo would have to be considered unstreamlined, no?  This also
gets rid of a need for escape pods since the primary hull is supposed to be
one giant escape pod.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 01:17:10 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: posting WD material

Leonard Erickson wrote:

> In mail you write:
>
> > Andy,
> >
> >   Insofar as posting articles from the White Dwarf to the list or Web I think
> > you need both the permission of the author of the article (while I've never
> > had an traveller author no yet, there could always be the first time. And of
> > course some of them are probably unavailable for contact without a lot of
> > looking) and the owner of the copyright (in this case GW).
>
>
> Relity is rather different. From what I hear, most gaming mags buy
> *all* the rights. Which means that the author essentially has no say in
> what they do with it, and can't use it himself!
>
> In that latter case, *only* GW can give you permission.

Shadows got it right essentially.  If the author of a copyright doesn't own the
copyright, guess what?  That author ain't got no copyright.  As a general matter,
you only need the permission of the copyright owner to use a work in a way that
would infringe otherwise.

There is some difference between treatment of copyright in the US and the UK/EU
wirth regard to author's rights.  Generally, the former recognize that an author's
right of personality is somehow incorporated into his works, and he may, in some
very limited situations, prevent the owner of the copyright of a work he authored
from using the work in a way that would offend him / his creativity/ personality
etc.  These kind of provisions have usually been limited to visual arts (even the
US has recognized a limited right of the author in such works, provided that only a
lmited umber are ever produced).

Given all this (and sparing you all the many US and UK cases I've read on this
subject), if you're in the UK, I'd say be very, very careful.. Some judges think
that even a table of contents is protectable because it encompasses the main idea /
structure of a book.  Its very doubtful that a US judge would ever go that far
based on the law over hear (especially "fair use" law).

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 01:18:37 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Infini-V on PC (was: My spreadsheet...)

Rob Prior wrote:

> Dom Mooney writes:
> >
> >I believe Rob Prior is planning to port Infini-V, Metator and FFS2 to the
> >
> >PC when he gets some time and if IG ever sort out billing him for products
> >
> >he hasn't had.
>
> Planning to, but after the last phone call I had with IG I'm not so eager.
>
>
> So uneager, in fact, that I'm writing to the Attorney General to complain
> about IGs business practices.  No products three ^&*^*& months after
> billing, and all James can do is make excuses and and another broken
> promise.  I've been understanding.  I've been _more_ than understanding:
> I've been a sucker.

What state are you in?

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 23:29:35 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...

 
>     I assume you mean because of the Heplar/Thruster thing rather than KKMs? I
> may well be wrong, but I see nowhere in any of my TNE stuff where it
> explicitly said that kkms were unfeasable.  I learned that on this list.
> There simply weren't any included w/ the space combat rules (generic or
> Brilliant Lances).  Just make some and put them in and *pretend* that they
> can't be counteracted w/o resorting to intricate measures like "bubba."
> lol... damn that sounds funny. ; )

Actually it was printed in the Designers notes to Brilliant Lances
which was in some Challenge or another (#51?). They argued that
since non-det-laser missiles were easy to shoot down, they simply
would not exist. Kinda dumb, actually since ignoring them means that
you have no real defenses, and then you are vulnerable to the very
missiles that are "impossible" to use in practice. I always liked
'em myself :-)

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 06:46:37 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

On Sat, 24 Jan 1998 15:36:14 -0600, Richard A. Flores wrote:

> James Lindsay <jlindsay@direct.ca> wrote:
> 
> >(Doug Berry and) I were wondering if anyone could care to speculate on the
> >time it would take for an average individual to die once exposed to a
> >vacuum?  I'm sure clothing and preparation might help but I/we don't want
> >to get too technical.  Such a character could find himself exposed to a
> >vacuum after a major vacc suit tear (assume no patches) or by being blown
> >out into space (a la: Spacing).
> >
> >So, how long would the poor bastard survive before being considered
> >"clinically dead"?
> 
> It is generally understood that even explosive decompression will not cause
> the human body to explode.  The eyes might pop out if not closed, but the
> body will not explode.

I never said anything with regards to Hollywood EXPLOSIVE decompression :)

> Surface (skin) bruising will begin almost immediately.  Holding  your breath
> is impossible and IIRC, one of the worst things you can try to do.  If you
> hyperventilated before exiting and exhaled as much air as possible
> before/during initial exposure to vacuum, I believe that you could retain
> consciousness for as much as 5 or 6 minutes.  Shortly after loosing
> consciousness, your heart would stop beating (the most common definition
> of "clinical death").

With all the physical trauma that your body would be undergoing (boiling
*and* freezing at the same time) I doubt anyone could remain conscious for
much over a minute.  The numbers I have generated lead to unconsciousness
at around 30 seconds and "death" via brain damage at 84 seconds (for an
average 777777 individual).

I guess my next question should be "Is this close enough to being accurate,
or do I have to rewrite our asphyxiation rules from scratch?"



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

 Money talks... it usually says "bend over"...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 06:46:34 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

On Sun, 25 Jan 1998 14:00:09 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:

[snip]

> BTW, it occurs to me that a pamphlet such as a spaceline might hand out
> to passengers would be a *neat* thing to throw together. Sort of like
> the ones airlines put in seatbacks or (I assume) cruise ships put in
> stateroooms. 
> 
> Either include it with the rules, use it as a promo item, or come up
> with some other "background" goodies of the same sort and sell them as
> a package (sort of like the "Miskatonic Matriculation Module" for
> CofC).

So who wants to design the logo on the barf bag?  I suggest a green
Imperial Sunburst that resembles Mr. Yuck!



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

 Money talks... it usually says "bend over"...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 06:46:38 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Decompression/T4.1 Hit System

On Sat, 24 Jan 1998 17:54:49 -0500 (EST), Glenn Grant wrote:

> Interesting use of Intelligence as hit points. Makes sense to me, as
> survival is going to depend on keeping your cool.
> 
> You might want to include some Cold Hits, perhaps 1 per ten minutes in Slow
> or Major Leaks, and 1 per minute in Explosive Decompression.

I think Craig Berry summed it up quite nicely:

<paraphrase>

"I like the use of INT as hit points.  I like the idea that dumb people
will die faster :)"

</paraphrase>

1 point per minute is a bit slow, IMHO.



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

 Money talks... it usually says "bend over"...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 06:46:35 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

On Sat, 24 Jan 1998 10:37:45 EST, CardSharks wrote:

[snip]

> HIT EFFECT VARIANCE
> 	All hit effects (Hits, Suffocate) are subject to a variance of +/- 5 (based
> on a +D-D roll). When hits are inflicted, the final value is then adjusted by
> a +D-D roll. For example, 6D Hits is read as 6D +D -D Hits.
    ^^^^                                       ^^^^^^^^

Hmmm... this is *new*-- and a bit unnecessary, IMHO.



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

 Money talks... it usually says "bend over"...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 00:09:16 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

> > >* 1000 Colonists
> > 
> > Not bad.  But one of the problems I toyed with was: would a thousand be
> > enough to establish a viable colony? 
> 
> 	depends on what you call viable. imho 1000 people without trade
> 	will be TL:3 in some generations. In what I understand about
> 	macro economics, the diversity increases with techlevel, and only
> 	a large economy can build the synergy to sustain a high techlevel
> 	for a prolonged time. Building colonies in sailing ship era, was
> 	easy, the colony had trade and the techlevel they started was not
> 	significant higher than their population code. But to start a TL:9
> 	colony you have to howl 10^9/2^4 people. I think most solomani
> 	islanders had been in renessaince when recontacted.

I hate to say this, but I think a colony needs more people than 1,000;
10,000; or 100,000 people.  In order to get the diverse Gene-Pool we will
need & all of the skills we will need I would have to hazzard a guess at
least 500,000 to 1,000,000.  This will allow for several cities to spring
up, people will not have to increase population as fast as in a smaller
effort, tech levels will be close to as high as the homeworld.

What I think is the only bad thing in the World Creation Rules is that the
smaller your pop the higher your TL, I feel it should be the other way
around.  Thie higher your pop the higher your tech.  More Scientists equals
better tech.

Also, why do new colonies always have a low TL?  I mean if you arrive at a
Earth-like world form the homeworld with everything you need to create a
vivable colony you will have the state of the art equipment with you.  From
what I have seen in Traveller all you need to start a colony is warm
bodies.  Not true, you will need all facets of life & learning.

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 03:54:05 EST
From: Kagehira <Kagehira@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Graphics formats/resolution

In a message dated 1/25/98 5:54:15 PM Pacific Standard Time,
crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU writes:

	[[ Adobe makes software that might be able to vectorize a lot of the maps and
other diagram-type illustrations, which would be the best possible option.]]
I'm hoping to use that method for the starship deck plans and such.
 
	[[Is there any chance that AHL will make it onto the CD-ROM? ]] Hopefully,
plus all the board games (once we can resolve how).

Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 01:05:42 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

> I hate to say this, but I think a colony needs more people than 1,000;
> 10,000; or 100,000 people.  In order to get the diverse Gene-Pool we will
> need & all of the skills we will need I would have to hazzard a guess at
> least 500,000 to 1,000,000.  


Although I cannot disagree with you, I am forced to wonder how mankind
sprang up from a small and non-diverse gene pool.  There must have been
a time in pre-history where there were VERY few humans.  What I'd like
to know is how primitive man solved the small gene pool problem.  Was
there increased radiation from solar influences that created a high
mutation rate?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 03:14:07 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

> > I hate to say this, but I think a colony needs more people than 1,000;
> > 10,000; or 100,000 people.  In order to get the diverse Gene-Pool we
will
> > need & all of the skills we will need I would have to hazzard a guess
at
> > least 500,000 to 1,000,000.  
> Although I cannot disagree with you, I am forced to wonder how mankind
> sprang up from a small and non-diverse gene pool.  There must have been
> a time in pre-history where there were VERY few humans.  What I'd like
> to know is how primitive man solved the small gene pool problem.  Was
> there increased radiation from solar influences that created a high
> mutation rate?

Thank you.  Mostly, I watched Macross 7 & got the idea from there.  In
other books & movies, colonies are started byt a small number of people,
but why do they think that a extra-solar colony will be as easy to set up
as a colony in the americas was?

Maybe it was the Ancients?  Maybe it was the Forerunners or Eldar?  Maybe
there were higher levels of solar radiation in the past?  Maybe there were
higher level of background radiation?

But, while my Traveller page is not up yet, I will give you some background
on the Forerunners.  I have always felt that only one race that was first
up & then to have only six Major races develop at about the same time just
blows, so I created the Forerunners.  Basicly they are between the Ancients
& the races of modern day in power.  About TL 25.

As for the Eldar, well think Elves in Space.  Yes, Elves in Space.  I like
Elves & I like Traveller so I put Elves in Traveller.  A TL 20 Race that is
the current elder race of the know galazy.  They have been known to medle
in human afairs for years.  They created the legends of elves on earth to
give themselves power when they meet with mankind again.  Right now the
3rd. Imp. has no knowledge that they exist, but they are molding humanity
in ways they do not know about or understand because of a coming "storm". 
As for the Vargar, Zho, & Aslan races well they are doing 

This storm will be either the return of the Forerunners or the
"Grandfather".  I have not made up my mind yet.

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 03:44:07 -0800
From: Eric Nolan <ericno@MICROSOFT.com>
Subject: RE: Quoting, and the Vargr

The basic concept of the Vargr being very concerned with status and
therefore their appearances is of course an excellent one.  

There is no reason that the Vargr fashion sense can't both be crass and
subtle for different individuals.  On the lower strata of society, flashy
Vargr may consider a gold lame jacket with hologramatic designer slogans
emblazoned in mood sensitive colours to be the height of good taste and an
excellent advertisement for their oppulence.  At the other end of the
spectra the subtle, scent marked jacket with a suave custom made fit may be
the thing to be seen in.

Eric.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 01:00:18 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

In mail you write:

> On Sat, 24 Jan 1998 10:37:45 EST, CardSharks wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> HIT EFFECT VARIANCE
>>       All hit effects (Hits, Suffocate) are subject to a variance of +/- 5 
> (based
>> on a +D-D roll). When hits are inflicted, the final value is then adjusted 
> by
>> a +D-D roll. For example, 6D Hits is read as 6D +D -D Hits.
>     ^^^^                                       ^^^^^^^^
>
> Hmmm... this is *new*-- and a bit unnecessary, IMHO.

I think it'll have little effect at higher numbers of dice. But with
low numbers, I think it'll give a better distribution. I'll have to
write some quick and dirty code to see the exact curves.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 21:46:17 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@m9.sprynet.com>
Subject: re: Computer Computational Rating Transfer Rates

Fibre's bandwith is really really high... :)

I think that (remebering all that I read.. I can look it up later if 
you need).. that the current limits (realworld) to fibre (atm at 622 
Mbps) use like 2-5% of the avaible bandwith, using current 
technology. And it is more then possible to stuff many many fibre 
strands into one cable.

While, at this time (again, realworld) lasers are topping out at 10 
Mbps...To achive anything like 100 Mbps at this time, you have to 
have a really really really clean channel... no interferance. I think 
that the properties of laser slow it up consiterably.

If you need, I can drag out my WAN manuals (I never really play with 
lasers, Fibre is really the way to go at this time, and the area that 
I do most of my work has tons of dark fibre under the streets, so 
hopping a ride under a street is not really a problem.. or you can be 
like my last contract and just buy the bloody poles to string it up 
your self!) <grin>


Cya

  
> >Tight beam communications such as laser and maser have a single channel
> >transmission rate of 3, for every 2 channels dedicated to data transmission
> >increase the rate by 1.
> 
> This probably understates the advantage of laser over radio - in space,
> with sufficient power, laser data rates should be comparable to fibre
> optics (="Really, Really High".) To be honest, getting things like this right
> for extrapolated technology is so hard that I'm almost happier to leave it
> fuzzy - though it pains my gearhead heart - unless a trained professional
> with lots of experience in fibreoptics and (hypothetical) laser commo
> takes it on.
> 
> Bruce
> 
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com           http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

Thought for the day:
    Communist (n): one who has given up all hope
    of becoming a Capitalist.

************************************************************************

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #43
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Traveller-digest      Monday, January 26 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 044



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator
Re: conservation of momentum
Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy
Re: posting WD material
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Milieu-0 Galactic dataset
Re: Return of Liaison Skill?
Re: low-tech ship design
re: Computer Computational Rating Transfer Rates
Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...
Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy
Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy
HEPlaR is cannon
Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Publishing (short story anthology)
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Q: Zhodani Ship Configuration (?)
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: Decompression/T4.1 Hit System
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 20:15:29 -0700
From: "Christopher E. Webb" <cwebb@ctos.com>
Subject: Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator

At 16:11 1/25/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Alex Rebsch wrote:
>> But the feature that would make it even better
>> would be the ability to import sector uwp data. So that you can use it in
>> conjunction with the Third Imperium and not have to start from scratch. If
>> you could import the basic uwp data and then have the program do all the
>> detailing it would be perfect.
>> 
>
>That's got my vote as well.
>
>Jim Cooper

Okay.  Where's the data (can I download it from somewhere)?  I don't have
any T4 products.

Christopher E. Webb
cwebb@ctos.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:28:52 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: conservation of momentum

David J. Golden <goldendj@pcisys.net>


>>>>>>I'll set on your proposed rubber sheet and reach out 
>>>>>>my hand and press down on it.  Since it is perfectly 
>>>>>>frictionless, I'll slide into the dimple I've made.  Then 
>>>>>>I pull my hand out from under me and press down
>>>>>>again.  I'll keep pressing down until I get to where 
>>>>>>I'm going.  (In the audience, hands clap as I wave 
>>>>>>the one that brought me here.)
>>>>>
>>>>>Nice try. But if you are pushing down on the sheet in 
>>>>>"front" of you, you are *lessening* the push your ship 
>>>>>makes. Also, you *won't* fall into the dimple, as you 
>>>>>are creating it a *fixed* distance in front of you (the 
>>>>>length of your arm). To get closer to it, you'd have
>>>>>to pull in your arm.
>>>>
>>>>No, I just push down until I slide in.  I can exert 
>>>>sufficient strength to make the small dimple deeper 
>>>>than the one holding my butt.
>>>
>>>How? The force you exert depends on weight.
>>>
>>>>>And it takes work (energy) both to make the dimple, 
>>>>>and to pull in your arm while maintaining the dimple.
>>>>
>>>>I won't argue about the first part, but I'm not going to 
>>>>pull in my arm while maintaining the dimple.  Once I 
>>>>slide into it, I won't need to keep holding down.
>>>
>>>But if you *don't* pull in your arm, you'll not be *able* 
>>>to slide in.  Instead you'd have your hand in the dimple, 
>>>and your arm *holding* you away from sliding in.
>>
>>Your implication is that I will have to "pull" in order to slide.
>
>Actually, even assuming you can "reach out" and cause 
>a dimple elsewhere in space, it won't do you any good. 
>You see, if you've got two dimples, there's *still* a  ridge" 
>between them. Like this:
>
>*                                     *
>  *                                 *
>    *                             *
>      *                **       *
>        *            *    *   *
>          *        *        * 
>            *    *
>               *  
>
>So you've got to completely lift yourself up and transfer 
>your entire weight elsewhere... which is going to be quite 
>energy consuming no matter how you do it. 


Actually no, that's the beauty of this analogy.  I don't need
to transfer my weight at all.  Here's my graphic of the 
situation:

Before:
ooooo          oooooo
           8      8
             8  8
               0

During:
ooooo                 ooooo
           8             8
             8         8
               0     8
                 8 8
                   *
After:
ooooo           oooooo
            8      8
              8  8
                0

where the "0" is my self (ship), the "*" is my hand (the 
anomaly under discussion), the "o" is the normal 
curvature of space and the "8" is the gravity well.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:36:29 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

J-Man <j-man@iname.com> wrote:

[snipped good comparisons of BASICs]


>Right now my problem is Visual BASIC 4.0, which I have, but do
>not know at all.  I've seen a few examples of code but they hardly make
>any sense to me.  Sometimes I'll see "Private Sub" and sometimes I'll
>just see "Sub".  Anyone know any basic syntax rules for this language?
>Or any books that will teach me?

I don't know how much of a general interest this is to the list, but I for
one am also interested in learning this new (to me) programming language.
While it's not directly related to Traveller, it is related to the way we
can express ourselves in presenting it to the "unwashed masses". :-)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:29:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Scott Taylor <izzylobo@faerealm.faerealm.com>
Subject: Re: posting WD material

Leonard Erickson wrote; 
> In mail you write:
> > Andy,
>>Insofar as posting articles from the White Dwarf to the list or Web I think
>>you need both the permission of the author of the article (while I've never
>>had an traveller author no yet, there could always be the first time. And of
>>course some of them are probably unavailable for contact without a lot of
>>looking) and the owner of the copyright (in this case GW).
> 
> Actually, GW may *not* hold the copyright. It depends on both the
> wording of their "standard contract" and on any special terms the
> author may have gotten. 
> 
> What gaming magazines *should* be asking for is "serial rights" (ie,
> they are the only magazine that can publish it), plus some reprint
> rights (so they don't have to track down the author to include the
> article in a "best of" compilation). They may additionally want some
> derivative rights (so that if they like the idea, they can put a
> modified form in the rules or future articles), but also allow the
> *author* derivative rights.

Some of us Freelancers would actually prefer it if they only bought 
"First" Serial rights; which mean that they have the right to the first 
publication (but this does not then pevent me from going and selling the 
article to someone else after that (this is very common in magazines; you 
sell the article to Asimov, say, and then later include it in an 
anthology or rewwork it slightly to sell as a novel). 
 
Most have no problems with first anthology rights in a "Best of", 
although many believe that, if the company is making more money off of 
the article, we ought to get s little something more as well. Deriviative 
rights can get messy (especially if both the writer *and* the magazine 
have derivative rights) but are not unreasonable... this is the sort of 
thing that can get hashed out in negotiations.

> Note that I say *should*, above. That's because what I list allows the
> author to do various things that are reasonable, but also allows the
> magazine to make reasonable use of the article. 
> 
> Relity is rather different. From what I hear, most gaming mags buy
> *all* the rights. Which means that the author essentially has no say in
> what they do with it, and can't use it himself! 

What's worse, is they don't often pay *more* because they bought all 
rights! Most gaming magazines, if they pay anything at all, pay a 
pittance (if you get a whole penny a word, you're lucky... many pay a 
flat fee per "page" or per article).

In most publishing, if a company buys "all rights", they *pay* for it, 
through the bleeding nose. This is because, literally, the author has *no*
rights to an article once it is turned in (note that this does *not* 
necessarily mean that he cannot use the ideas again, or the research, but 
it had better be in a *very* different article). 

The magazine company, on the other hand, now can do *anything* they want 
with the article; they can sit on it, never letting it be published (this 
has happened, although not, to my knowledge, in the gaming industry), 
make a movie out of it, turn it into a multimedia project, whatever.

Most game companies, for the most part (and as far as I know) don't buy 
all rights out of malice, but merely expediency; by buying all rights, 
they can turn an article into part of the intellectual property of the 
game or magazine, allowing them to do what they want with it. It makes it 
a lot easier to allow another writer to expand on the ideas given in some 
book if they don't have to go back to the original author for permission. 
By making it a one time financial arrangement, they also avoid a lot of 
hassle regarding intellectual property and tracking payments; they *know* 
what the IP status of a given bit of their material is.

OTOH, not *all* companies buy all rights; Pagan Publishing (makers of 
Delta Green and other fine CoC supplements) does not, and I believe SJG 
doesn't *always* buy all rights, but I'm not sure.

> In that latter case, *only* GW can give you permission.

....and that's the way it goes.

Scott Taylor
Freelancer for Hire
Have Mac, Will Travel

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:27:24 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

In a message dated 98-01-26 07:08:06 EST, you write:

<< 
 I think it'll have little effect at higher numbers of dice. But with
 low numbers, I think it'll give a better distribution. I'll have to
 write some quick and dirty code to see the exact curves.
 
  >>
On average it has no effect (the change to the die roll is zero). 1/36th of
the time, the hit dice will be increased by +5 (and 1/36th of the time the hit
dice will be reduced by -5). 

	+D-D. Roll the red die and the blue die. Subtract the blue die from the red
die. The results range from -5 to +5 centered on 0 (in fact, 0 occurs most
frequently: 6 out of 36 times, or about 17%).

SPECIAL THROWS
	N	N%	D+D	+D-D	2D-7	2D-2	N%	½D-½D
	1	3%	2	-5	-5	0	11%	- 2
	2	6%	3	-4	-4	1	22%	- 1
	3	8%	4	-3	-3	2	33%	  0
	4	11%	5	-2	-2	3	-	-
	5	14%	6	-1	-1	4	-	-
	6	17%	7	0	0	5	-	-
	5	14%	8	1	1	6	-	-
	4	11%	9	2	2	7	-	-
	3	8%	10	3	3	8	-	-
	2	6%	11	4	4	9	22%	+1
	1	3%	12	5	5	10	11%	+2
		D+D is a standard 2D throw: Roll 1D and then roll a second D and add the
two. Range is 2 to 12 centered on 7.
	+	D-D. Roll 1D and then roll a second D and subtract it from the first.
Results range from -5 to +5 centered on zero.
		D+D-7 is equivalent to D-D.
		D+D -2 shifts the results of D+D to a range from 0 to 10.
	+	½D-½D. Roll ½ D and then a second ½ D and subtract it from the first.
Results range from -2 to +2 centered on zero.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 12:05:29 +0000
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: Milieu-0 Galactic dataset

John Toth writes:
>Does anyone know if there is a Milieu 0 Data available for Mr. Jim
>Vassilakos' Galactic 2.3?
I have a baseline set. My main task at the moment is creating the ultimate
Classic data set. 180 sectors and counting. It will probably be released
with Galactic 2.4.
Anyway, closer to your point, I'm also working on hooks for Galactic to
enable someone to manage a Pocket Empires play by mail game. All things
going well I'll be looking for playtesters in a few weeks and once the bugs
are worked out I'll run a game for 16 players.
Cheers,
Jo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:21:42 -0500
From: ringrose@ascent.com
Subject: Re: Return of Liaison Skill?

>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
>Subject: Re: Return of Liaison Skill?

>Marc, using a firearm is based on your ability to control the weapon as it
>fires.  This is a function of Strength.  Think back to your own days in
>basic.  Remember the emphasis on firm control and proper squeezing of the
>trigger?

I will take the same side, for completely different reasons:

For game balance, I prefer it when the stats the skills are based upon
are spread out.  There usually aren't many meaningful uses for
strength in a high-tech society, and even if it's a thin excuse for
making firearms based on strength, it'll help even things out.  In my
experience, this keeps variety in the characters people like to play.

(An extreme version of this problem is GURPS, where nearly all skills
are based on dex or int.... if your character's highest stat is in
strength, it is largely wasted.)

	- Robert Ringrose
	  ringrose@ascent.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:23:08 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: low-tech ship design

>> That's not particularly true for rockets - double the thrust of a rocket
>> and you only double the fuel consumption. (Since, to first order,
>> you can double the thrust by strapping two identical rockets together.)

>But that doesn't *double the acceleration*. And it's *that* that uses 4
>times the fuel.

I'm not sure what you mean. Doubling the thrust (roughly) doubles
the acceleration, for a ship whose mass isn't dominated by the rocket
itself (which is true for almost all rocket ships in their fully-
fuelled state, since rockets have high T/W.) 

Doubling the delta-V is another matter, of course, but that's not a 
square relationship either.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:12:59 +0000
From: Phil Kitching <PhilK@btinternet.com>
Subject: re: Computer Computational Rating Transfer Rates

>Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 21:46:17 +0000
>From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@m9.sprynet.com>
>
>Fibre's bandwith is really really high... :)
>
>I think that (remebering all that I read.. I can look it up later if 
>you need).. that the current limits (realworld) to fibre (atm at 622 
>Mbps) use like 2-5% of the avaible bandwith, using current 
>technology. And it is more then possible to stuff many many fibre 
>strands into one cable.
>
>While, at this time (again, realworld) lasers are topping out at 10 
>Mbps...To achive anything like 100 Mbps at this time, you have to 
>have a really really really clean channel... no interferance. I think 
>that the properties of laser slow it up consiterably.
>
You must be thinking lans, telecom networks are already much beyond this:

Nortel has a bit of kit that will put 10Gb/s down a pair of fibres
using a single laser frequency (it does cost more than a pc lan card though.)

I recall someone writing a paper a few years back that suggested if you
use lots of lasers at different frequencies, a single fibre pair could
shift multiple Tb/s. I can't remember exactly how many, but it was irrelevant
because BT would only need a single pair.

Phil

(ps, I can't remember if that single pair allowed for everyone using 
holographic videoconferencing instead of voice - I think it did :-)
- --
  Mailto:Philk@btinternet.com (don't blame BT - they only pay me:)
  Get out of the Way! Another Salvo bandwagon is beginning to roll.
  http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:13:46 -0600
From: "Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...

TravelrTNE wrote:

>   Are you really saying that theres any way to keep CT and MT designed
ships
>valid w/ FFS1 or 2?  I never designed a ship w/ MT and have only seen a
couple

Sort of. The basic ship designs can be passed from system to system. The
problems are the abscence of Plasma Weapons, Fusion Weapons, Particle
Accelerator Turrets (and Barbettes) and KKMs - and the high tech level of
repulsors. When you move ship designs from MT and CT to FF&S, you're left in
the lurch as far as these weapons are concerned. The obvious choice is -
replace KKMs with Det-Laser, and replace the other weapons with various
flavors of lasers (In fact, that's what Brilliant Lances appears to have
done). My problem is - THATS NOT MY TRAVELLER. Sure, new players may not
know the difference, but its rather important to me.

For example, I have a race that prefers to fight close and dirty - so their
ships are plasma/fusion heavy. While changing these to lasers may not seem
like a big deal, it looses some of that "flavor" that the race had before.

Some people have suggested that classic missiles were not necessarily KKM -
they are simply listed as "conventional" and "nuclear" - why can't the
"conventional" be det-laser? Because it CT, "conventional" warheads were not
affected by nuclear dampers - det-laser are.

I also don't think the system should be "If you want
<KKM/Fusion/Plasma/Repulsor>, just add it yourself." These items are game
canon, for better or for worse. The system should be "Here are the rules for
<KKM/Fusion/Plasma/Repulsor>, but note that these items are perhaps
scientifically unsound, and you are free to ignore these rules." The game
should be backwards compatable - even if these things are not "official" any
more.

Andrew Akins

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:42:56 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

Richard A. Flores wrote:
> 
> J-Man <j-man@iname.com> wrote:
> 
> [snipped good comparisons of BASICs]
> 
> >Right now my problem is Visual BASIC 4.0, which I have, but do
> >not know at all.  I've seen a few examples of code but they hardly make
> >any sense to me.  Sometimes I'll see "Private Sub" and sometimes I'll
> >just see "Sub".  Anyone know any basic syntax rules for this language?
> >Or any books that will teach me?
> 
{snipped)

Que put out a Visual Basic 4 tutor by Clink Hicks c/w cd show'n'tell.
I don't have VB 4.0 but I have used VB earlier versions, but I do have
the tutor. I understand that MS Access uses VB to create the d/b entry
formats.
Hope this helps.

Jim Cooper

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:56:20 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

Richard A. Flores wrote:
> 
> J-Man <j-man@iname.com> wrote:
> 
> [snipped good comparisons of BASICs]
> 
> >Right now my problem is Visual BASIC 4.0, which I have, but do
> >not know at all.  I've seen a few examples of code but they hardly make
> >any sense to me.  Sometimes I'll see "Private Sub" and sometimes I'll
> >just see "Sub".  Anyone know any basic syntax rules for this language?
> >Or any books that will teach me?
> 
> I don't know how much of a general interest this is to the list, but I for
> one am also interested in learning this new (to me) programming language.
> While it's not directly related to Traveller, it is related to the way we
> can express ourselves in presenting it to the "unwashed masses". :-)

Just found another source book I had stashed. The Waite Group Press also
had some VB how-to books with disc applications and inside back cover.
These were for earlier versions of VB but the language has not changed
all that much, if any, and they probably have some more recent books on
the market.
Jim Cooper

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:11:16 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: HEPlaR is cannon

One man's opinion:

I don't understand all this discussion of HEPlaR not being cannon.  In the
CT books, they spoke of many drive systems, chemical, fusion, etc. that were
not in common use in the Imperium proper (except on some back worlds).  Not
in detail so you could use them, but in general.  Just because there were
not rules on them specifically doesn't make them non cannon.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:17:30 -0600
From: Alex Rebsch <grazzit@flash.net>
Subject: Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator

At 08:15 PM 1/25/98 -0700, you wrote:
>At 16:11 1/25/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>Alex Rebsch wrote:
>>> But the feature that would make it even better
>>> would be the ability to import sector uwp data. So that you can use it in
>>> conjunction with the Third Imperium and not have to start from scratch. If
>>> you could import the basic uwp data and then have the program do all the
>>> detailing it would be perfect.
>>> 
>>
>>That's got my vote as well.
>>
>>Jim Cooper
>
>Okay.  Where's the data (can I download it from somewhere)?  I don't have
>any T4 products.
>
>Christopher E. Webb
>cwebb@ctos.com
> 

A lot of the sector data can be downloaded in text format from
http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/traveller/ in the archive section. Also one
of the list members created a excel spreadsheet with a lot of the sector
data, and he also created an access database for it to. I'm afraid I can't
find the site where I got that but somebody else on the list is sure to
remember. If there is something specific you need just ask the list and I'm
sure somebody on it can send you it via email if its possible.

hope that helps

Alex Rebsch
grazzit@flash.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:21:06 -0600
From: "Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

For the record, my ship was the design posted -

It had 1,000 adult colonists in cold sleep - but nearly 25std of "cold
storage" for animal and human embryos. So the question is, how many embryos
could be stored in a freezer unit 350 cubic meters in side. Figure 50% of
these embryos are human (the rest animal), and you have a much larger gene
pool than the original 1,000 adult colonist.

In my particular campaign, the adult colonist were hand-picked and agreed
that for each natural child they had, they would also bear one of the
embryos. This practice would continue until at last all the emryos had been
introduced into the population. Thus, genetic diversity.

In particular, in my camapign, this made for some interesting social and
religious dynamics - but thats another topic :)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:12:35 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Publishing (short story anthology)

Off topic, but:

I'm looking for material to fill out an anthology of SF and another of
Fantasy stories. Content must be short stories of less than about 8000
words and in Emailable format. The resultant anthology is to be published
through Hafod, an Internet-only publisher (you'll retain all but the
Internet rights). There'll be a royalty involved if the project works. The
'books' will sell at £2-3, with authors paid a 20% royalty on this 'cover'
price.

Note that material requiring a license (ie any Traveller stuff!) isn't
appropriate. 

Anyone interested, contact me or the publisher:

 Email: Duncan@hafod.com
 Web Site at: http://www.hafod.demon.co.uk

You can also get one of my full-length novels through Hafod, but don't let
that put you off ....

MJD.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:27:32 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

In a message dated 98-01-26 01:49:13 EST, you write:

<< For example, 6D Hits is read as 6D +D -D Hits.
     ^^^^                                       ^^^^^^^^
 
 Hmmm... this is *new*-- and a bit unnecessary, IMHO. >>

How much is a "bit" unnecessary? Maybe + half die minus half die for a range
from -2 to +2?

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:15:06 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Q: Zhodani Ship Configuration (?)

>>>This approach will even let you design such silliness as the NCC-1701
>>>version of the USS Enterprise.
>>
>>For which of course you need 4 hulls.  A large disk, a larger long cylinder
>>and 2 smaller longer cylinders.
>
>Since the primary hull (saucer) is supposed to be a seperate vehicle from the
>secondary (the 3 cylinders), maybe make 2 hull and a grapple for them. Make
>it a jettison grapple since on 1701 it was supposed to only be reattachable at
>a starbase and the 1701-D a standard grapple.
>   Since the 2 smaller longer cylinders are supposed to be the warp nacelles
>you don't have to worry bout them.
>   I guess the combo would have to be considered unstreamlined, no?  This also
>gets rid of a need for escape pods since the primary hull is supposed to be
>one giant escape pod.

Not for NCC 1701 ("no bloody A, B, or C" to quote Scott).  However, for the
later models, maybe.

The first one was never intended to land.  It could, but in Traveller, any
ship can land if it has sufficient bracing.  It may be a rough ride, but,
you can get them down.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:36:26 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

>> I hate to say this, but I think a colony needs more people than 1,000;
>> 10,000; or 100,000 people.  In order to get the diverse Gene-Pool we will
>> need & all of the skills we will need I would have to hazzard a guess at
>> least 500,000 to 1,000,000.
>
>Although I cannot disagree with you, I am forced to wonder how mankind
>sprang up from a small and non-diverse gene pool.  There must have been
>a time in pre-history where there were VERY few humans.  What I'd like
>to know is how primitive man solved the small gene pool problem.  Was
>there increased radiation from solar influences that created a high
>mutation rate?

Do I dare say that perhaps God had a hand in it?  I know it's not very
SF'ish to believe that an all powerful Deity might be concerned with the
well being of a small band of "primitives" but...

OTOH, perhaps it's a matter of reality shift.  I believe that at one time
the correct value for Pi was 3 (not 22/7ths or 3.1415926...), then one day
someone (an authority) said, "It can't be that simple."  And started looking
for the "correct" value for it and "found" it was closer to 22/7ths (which
was exactly what he thought it would be).  Then later still, someone else
(another authority) said, it can't be that simple...

I base my belief in the changing reality on the fact that many ancient
people were quite advanced in their understanding of math and could wrap a
string around a cylinder and see what the circumference was in relation to
the diameter.  There are other (even more modern) examples of this shift in
reality based on expectations of people (usually authorities).

For example, the atomic mass of hydrogen (and all the other elements) used
to be the same as their number on the periodical chart.  Someone (an
authority) decided that nature couldn't be so precise and start looking for
the "actual" mass and "found" that he was right, it wasn't exactly 1 (for
hydrogen) but 1.008.

We tend to find what we are looking for.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 12:45:31 -0500 (EST)
From: neo@total.net (Glenn Grant)
Subject: Re: Decompression/T4.1 Hit System

jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay) sez,

>On Sat, 24 Jan 1998 17:54:49 -0500 (EST), Glenn Grant wrote:
>
>> Interesting use of Intelligence as hit points. Makes sense to me, as
>> survival is going to depend on keeping your cool.
>> You might want to include some Cold Hits, perhaps 1 per ten minutes in Slow
>> or Major Leaks, and 1 per minute in Explosive Decompression.

>1 point per minute is a bit slow, IMHO.

I meant 1D, actually; *in addition* to the Suffocation damage.

  + GMG +

    -----------------------Glenn Grant-----------------------  
                         <neo@total.net>
    Web: <http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/ggrant.html>
        "...a starship, a robot, two sex toys, and a gun:
      the raw, heady essence of interstellar civilization."
                        --Kenji Schwarz

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:15:08 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

At 01:05 AM 1/26/98 -0800, J-man wrote:
>> I hate to say this, but I think a colony needs more people than 1,000;
>> 10,000; or 100,000 people.  In order to get the diverse Gene-Pool we will
>> need & all of the skills we will need I would have to hazzard a guess at
>> least 500,000 to 1,000,000.  
>
>Although I cannot disagree with you, I am forced to wonder how mankind
>sprang up from a small and non-diverse gene pool.  There must have been
>a time in pre-history where there were VERY few humans.  What I'd like
>to know is how primitive man solved the small gene pool problem.  Was
>there increased radiation from solar influences that created a high
>mutation rate?

My limited understanding indicates that when a small gene pool exists,
minor divergences become major ones.  For example, a recessive gene that
would likely die out in a large population can become a trait of the entire
gene pool.

Inbreeding can reinforce such genes, not all of which are harmful, and it
is this which (in some circles) leads to speciation.  The stacking of
recessives makes the genetic inertia of a group low enough to be easily
altered by slight differences in environment.  For example, you are more
likely to see a dramatic mutation in a large group, but given a favorable
mutation, you are more likely to see it dominate the gene pool in a small one.

Anyone who knows this well care to comment?

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #44
*********************************

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Traveller-digest      Monday, January 26 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 045



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator
Re: Q: Zhodani Ship Configuration (?)
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Enterprise and saucer seperation
Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...
Re: Q: Zhodani Ship Configuration (?)
Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy
Re: HEPlaR is cannon
Galactic Pocket Empires
Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...
Re: Return of Liaison Skill?
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
WHAT!?
[none]
re: HEPlaR is *canon*
Strength /Dexterity in Gun Shooting
Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator
re: Computer Computational Rating Transfer Rates
Re: Time of Death for Spacing

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:20:34 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator

At 11:28 PM 1/24/98 -0700, Christopher Webb wrote:
>I am working on a revision of some software that I adapted/modified a year
>ago that generates solar systems (Accrete 2 & 3 at Douglas Berry's home
>page (http://www.hooked.net/~dberry)).  The features I'm going to include
are:

If you happen to know Java, or want to learn it, you might consider
recoding in that language.  Most code, I do not push language.  Anything
graphical, I tend to encourage Java, as there are versions of it for most
all of the platforms I use.

As far as your feature list, it sounds quite interesting, but do be aware
of the pre-existing cool programs that do much the same, such as Galactic
or Metator.  The more tweaks you can add, such as having it generate more
habitable systems, or more systems that have at least one shirtsleeve
planet, the better.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 12:06:17 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Q: Zhodani Ship Configuration (?)

On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, Richard A. Flores wrote:

> >> I'd like some opinions.
> >>
> >> Most of us should be familiar with the typified Zhodani ship shape: the
> one
> >> made popular by FASA, which has appeared on various Imperial unit logos
> >> (usually in the center of crosshairs). Just in case, it's a small diamond
> >> on the end of a long neck, with an oblong main hull shape (the picture is
> a
> >> much better reference).
> >>
> >> My question is what hull configuration it would fall under. I'm torn
> >> between wedge and medium or long rounded cylinders, but then again it
> might
> >> also qualify as some other shape.
> >
> >Treat it as two hulls. One for the oblong, one for the neck.
> >
> >This approach will even let you design such silliness as the NCC-1701
> >version of the USS Enterprise.
> 
> For which of course you need 4 hulls.  A large disk, a larger long cylinder
> and 2 smaller longer cylinders.
> 
> 

Which is _exactly_ the example given in (IIRC) FFS for a 'close structure'
hull. Round and round in circles we go...

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 12:18:29 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, James Lindsay wrote:
 
> With all the physical trauma that your body would be undergoing (boiling
> *and* freezing at the same time) I doubt anyone could remain conscious for
> much over a minute.  The numbers I have generated lead to unconsciousness
> at around 30 seconds and "death" via brain damage at 84 seconds (for an
> average 777777 individual).
> 
> I guess my next question should be "Is this close enough to being accurate,
> or do I have to rewrite our asphyxiation rules from scratch?"

Except you aren't 'freezing and boiling' at the same time. The human body
is a good insulator. You'll be getting some superficial freezing, but
you're not going to radiate heat that fast. The same holds for the boiling
part. You'll heat up a lot faster than you wold in an atmosphere, since
there's no air to filter out the solar radiation, and you'll sunburn PDQ.

Still...84 sec is way too short a time for brain death to occur. the
standard CPR rule is at 10 _minutes_ after heartbeat cessation you can get
brain damage starting to occur, and at 20 you will get it to
occur...actual brainwave flatlining is somewhat beyond that. if the poor
sap is in shadow, IE: cold, hypothermic effects can actually extend that
time.


Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 14:28:18 EST
From: CardSharks@AOL.com
Subject: Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator

The traditional format for the sector data is

1-13: Name
15-18: Hex Number  4 digits as in 0310
20-28: UWP per the Traveller rules ie A45698B-9
31: Bases
33-47: Codes &
49: Zone
52-54: PBG
56-57: Allegiance
59-74: Stellar Data

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 14:54:42 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

In a message dated 98-01-26 14:21:36 EST, you write:

<< 
 Still...84 sec is way too short a time for brain death to occur. the
 standard CPR rule is at 10 _minutes_ after heartbeat cessation you can get
 brain damage starting to occur, and at 20 you will get it to
 occur...actual brainwave flatlining is somewhat beyond that. if the poor
 sap is in shadow, IE: cold, hypothermic effects can actually extend that
 time.
 
  >>
But wouldn't you call it "death" when the heart stops. Then you have 10
minutes (or some other length of time, depending on technology) to revive. Or
thow him in a low berth and get him to a hospital.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:35:34 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Enterprise and saucer seperation

>Not for NCC 1701 ("no bloody A, B, or C" to quote Scott).  However, for the
>later models, maybe.

Me, i used to be a TOS Fan all teh way till i realized how silly alot of Star
Trek is.  I still prefer TOS to all the others.  It is implied in several
sources (model kits and books) that the original Enterprise (1701) could do
saucer seperation but it was kicked free via explosive bolts (reconnection
possible at a Starbase).  It was pretty old in theory.  Mr Scotts guide to the
Enterprise also mentioned it for the A (w/ teh ability to reconnect).  None of
this is *canon* for ST, though.  The 1701-D is simply the first to make use of
it, but the concept is TOS.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:35:39 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...

I wrote:

>>   Are you really saying that theres any way to keep CT and MT designed
ships
>>valid w/ FFS1 or 2?  I never designed a ship w/ MT and have only seen a
couple

Andy wrote:

>Sort of. The basic ship designs can be passed from system to system. The
>problems are the abscence of Plasma Weapons, Fusion Weapons, Particle
>Accelerator Turrets (and Barbettes) and KKMs - and the high tech level of

PA turrets and Barbettes are just plain ridiculous to me.  Plasma and fusion
weapons could still be useful maybe w/in the same hex while moving pretty slow
(crawling actually), but theres just no way to make them useful at multi hex
ranges.  Alot of the "flavor" of these weapons is simply in they're damage and
their name.  Just make a laser weapon that matches the performance u want and
say that the "laser molecules" are "fused" by the energy electros of the
dowackey.  (i.e. just handwave something that makes a *laser* into a *fusion
gun*).  I don't think its in the interests of the game to perpetuate fantasy
magitech items.  Alot the original stuff isn't hard science at all.  Its
simply a bunch of equipment that "sounds scientific like."  Hard science
didn't enter into until TNE, IMO.  MT made steps in that direction, but it was
TNE that finally divested itself of the most obvious signs of science fantasy.

>For example, I have a race that prefers to fight close and dirty - so their
>ships are plasma/fusion heavy. While changing these to lasers may not seem
>like a big deal, it looses some of that "flavor" that the race had before.

Um... maybe that "flavor" was wrong?  I don't mean to be insulting here so
please don't take any offense, but did u consider that? 

>
>Some people have suggested that classic missiles were not necessarily KKM -
>they are simply listed as "conventional" and "nuclear" - why can't the
>"conventional" be det-laser? Because it CT, "conventional" warheads were not
>affected by nuclear dampers - det-laser are.
>
>I also don't think the system should be "If you want
><KKM/Fusion/Plasma/Repulsor>, just add it yourself." These items are game
>canon, for better or for worse. The system should be "Here are the rules for
><KKM/Fusion/Plasma/Repulsor>, but note that these items are perhaps
>scientifically unsound, and you are free to ignore these rules." The game
>should be backwards compatable - even if these things are not "official" any
>more.

This is (again) what TNE did w/ Tplates, but there was a blurb that could be
made for "how" tplates could work and what was wrong w/ them.  There isn't a
way (short of extreme reaching) to rationalize plasma/fusion weapons.  The
line had to be drawn somewhere,i'd guess.   Time simply may have ran out (as
it did w/ FFS2).  Dave, did u consider making plasma/fusion weapons for FFS2?
KKMs have long been an issue (and still is) but w/out resorting to extreme
measures (like Bubba) they're not feasable at Traveller ranges if Traveller
laser weapons are as good as they're stated to be.

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 12:09:40 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Q: Zhodani Ship Configuration (?)

> gets rid of a need for escape pods since the primary hull is supposed to be
> >one giant escape pod.
> 
> Not for NCC 1701 ("no bloody A, B, or C" to quote Scott).  However, for the
> later models, maybe.
> 
> The first one was never intended to land.  It could, but in Traveller, any
> ship can land if it has sufficient bracing.  It may be a rough ride, but,
> you can get them down.
> 
> 


Actually the original NCC-1701 could also detach the primary hull, it
was just never done.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 12:16:33 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

> I don't know how much of a general interest this is to the list, but I for
> one am also interested in learning this new (to me) programming language.
> While it's not directly related to Traveller, it is related to the way we
> can express ourselves in presenting it to the "unwashed masses". :-)
> 


Well the interest to the list is secondary, but there, as it will allow
us to make more Traveller-orientated siftware for ourselves in a
programming medium that is generally accepted nowadays.  I could
continue to write in GWBASIC, but who'd want to run them?  :)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:52:29 -0700
From: Chris Griffen <cgriffen@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: HEPlaR is cannon

Richard A. Flores wrote:

>One man's opinion:
>
>I don't understand all this discussion of HEPlaR not being cannon.  In the
>CT books, they spoke of many drive systems, chemical, fusion, etc. that were
>not in common use in the Imperium proper (except on some back worlds).  Not
>in detail so you could use them, but in general.  Just because there were
>not rules on them specifically doesn't make them non cannon.

The authors of TNE made HEPlaR canon in an attempt to rectify the gross
violations of the laws of physics posited by reactionless drives.
Ultimately a referee may use whatever he wants (thrusters or HEPlaR being
the two most popular), but I agree with Richard: There really isn't any
point to arguing *against* the canonical validity of HEPlaR.

Best,

Chris

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:35:36 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Galactic Pocket Empires

>>Does anyone know if there is a Milieu 0 Data available for Mr. Jim
>>Vassilakos' Galactic 2.3?

Jo Grant wrote:
>I have a baseline set. My main task at the moment is creating the ultimate
>Classic data set. 180 sectors and counting. It will probably be released
>with Galactic 2.4.
>Anyway, closer to your point, I'm also working on hooks for Galactic to
>enable someone to manage a Pocket Empires play by mail game. All things
>going well I'll be looking for playtesters in a few weeks and once the bugs
>are worked out I'll run a game for 16 players.

180 SECTORS??  Damn!  put this up on teh web please.  I've been itching to get
more *official* sectors... from whatever time period.  You know, i brooched
the subj to Jim about programming a PE simulation on Galactic, but it was just
a brainstorming thing.   :::::::::::::::Raising hand::::::::::::::::::::::
Can i be a volunteer/playtester?  Will players have their own interface? or
will u be sending out screen shots?

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:35:41 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...

Merrick wrote:

>Actually it was printed in the Designers notes to Brilliant Lances
>which was in some Challenge or another (#51?). They argued that
>since non-det-laser missiles were easy to shoot down, they simply
>would not exist. Kinda dumb, actually since ignoring them means that
>you have no real defenses, and then you are vulnerable to the very
>missiles that are "impossible" to use in practice. I always liked
>'em myself :-)

I don't have that issue of Challenge, whatever issue it is.  Because Traveller
doesn't use KKMs, no ship is ready for them, but if they were used, ships
would be prepared (and more than a match).  As is, i think most (large)
military ships would have at least a minor dedicated PD battery just in case
someone wants to surprise them (they could also be used to scrub an enemy hull
clean of antennas and such in a boarding action... disable commo etc).  Most
civilian and smaller military ships are probably pretty good targets for
*standard* KKMs. 

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 21:38 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Return of Liaison Skill?

In-Reply-To: <199801241858.KAA09175@m9.sprynet.com>

Tsykoduk,

> What I have always done is give each weapon a recoil value, and let 
> the firer's STR over come it. If you cannot over come it, then you 
> gain the bonus of having a -DM on the shot.

Something like the TNE recoil rules. Works for me.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 21:38 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

In-Reply-To: <2930b0a3.34ccc787@aol.com>

> << For example, 6D Hits is read as 6D +D -D Hits.
>      ^^^^                                       ^^^^^^^^
>  
>  Hmmm... this is *new*-- and a bit unnecessary, IMHO. >> 
>  
> How much is a "bit" unnecessary? Maybe + half die minus half die for a range
> from -2 to +2?
>  
> Marc

I think he was meaning the added complication, and I agree. I haven't tried it 
yet, though, so maybe it works better than I think.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 12:26:29 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Legate wrote:

> Also, why do new colonies always have a low TL?  I mean if you arrive at a
> Earth-like world form the homeworld with everything you need to create a
> vivable colony you will have the state of the art equipment with you.  From
> what I have seen in Traveller all you need to start a colony is warm
> bodies.  Not true, you will need all facets of life & learning.
> 

Because the TL-5 tractor you _can_ fix with a hammer, three wrenches and
a forge is worth 17 TL-12 ones all with a defrabijulator module gone bad.

A colony of necessity needs to be self sufficient, for a time, at least,
and particularly in the case at hand, which is a sub-light colonization
effort.

Low Tech (generally) = Easy to fix

In a real emergency, you can bootstrap to making those hammers and
wrenches, starting with stone tools.

A large HT colony _will_ have severe vulnerabilities that a smaller, LT
one won't. Like when the last defrabijulator module goes on your last
tractor. If you had 10,000 mouths to feed, you might get by on muscle
power. With 10,000,000 there's just no way to do it; those 10,000,000
people will be counting on their high tech to survive.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 13:36:54 -0500
From: "Glenn Crawford" <glennc@nelvana.com>
Subject: WHAT!?

Spaketh Richard A. Flores
>OTOH, perhaps it's a matter of reality shift.  I believe that at one time
>the correct value for Pi was 3 (not 22/7ths or 3.1415926...)
WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
Pi has never been 3. It cannot be. The fact that some primitive bozo (there
apparently is one US state that legislated Pi to be 3) thinks this does not
make it so. Reality does not change with perception, reality is that which
KEEPS exisiting when you stop believing in it. If you do not believe in
gravity, does that mean you do not fall at a constant rate (ignoring
atmospheric friction for now in regards to terminal velocity). No. One does
not make laws of reality, one finds them. Newton discovered the law of
gravity, not gravity

>I base my belief in the changing reality on the fact that many ancient
>people were quite advanced in their understanding of math and could wrap a
>string around a cylinder and see what the circumference was in relation to
>the diameter. 
They were no more or less clever than us technologically advanced house
apes. Sometimes, just maybe, humans clear up their perceptions and actually
SEE. I hate to quote a movie, but there is a scene in Men In Black where
Tommy Lee Jones says to Will Smith that "500 years ago everyone "knew" the
earth was flat, and up til 15 minutes ago, you "knew" we were alone on this
planet". But that did not make the earth flat, and did not change the fact
that there were aliens. 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:44:01 -0500
From: hal@buffnet.net
Subject: [none]

Hello Folks,
  Maybe someone here can help a duffus with a logic problem regarding
traveller (or any other sci-fi system for that matter!)...

  It is expected that random generation systems will produce some rather
bizare planetary systems that violate known "physics" and such.  With that
as a warning, I can accept that any random generation system will produce
flawed results.

  My question then is this: in the First Survey data listings, it talks
about planets with M class stars.  Looking at such planets, one finds
quickly, that such planets are not capable of having free standing liquid
water, and that temperatures on such planets are below freezing.

  Given that fact - how is it possible for planets to have oxygen bearing
atmospheres if such atmospheres are the result of transformations due to
plant life activity (in as far as life as we know it on earth requires)?

  If that is the case - that such planets cannot have breathable
atmospheres unless an attempt is made to terraform it, should all planets
that are not possible to be inside a "habitability" zone be considered
exotic?  That being the case, should there not also be a new trade
classification for frozen worlds or exotic atmospheres or should planets be
equated with "barren" or "airless" worlds?

   Thanks for responses...

      Hal

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 19:19:17 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: HEPlaR is *canon*

"Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> wrote:

>I don't understand all this discussion of HEPlaR not being cannon.

That's 'canon'.

>In the
>CT books, they spoke of many drive systems, chemical, fusion, etc. that were
>not in common use in the Imperium proper (except on some back worlds).  Not
>in detail so you could use them, but in general.

The comments as to whether or not HEPLaR is canon are really a result of
the abandonment of thruster plates in the transition(*) between MT(**) and
TNE. This got up a lot of people's noses at the time (mine included) as
although it was 'more realistic' it threw a lot of the old Traveller canon
out, and changed the feel of the game.

IMO it would have been better managed if TNE adopted HEPLaR as the standard
ship drive for the RC and ruled that T-Plates were abandoned due to the
technology's vulnerability to Virus.

T4, as published has its own little quirks - the version of QSDS in the
rules allows you to build a TL9 ship with a JDrive. However, HEPLaR is a
TL10 technology so you can't install a drive on it, something that I hope
TNAS/QSDS2 will solve.

>Just because there were
>>not rules on them specifically doesn't make them non cannon.

I agree with your last point.

Dom

(*)Other significant changes include the higher TL of lasers etc.
(Something that irritates me with T4).

(**) I know that High Guard 1st Edition mentioned the use of Fusion
Engines. MT's "Hard Times" introduced a whole series of non-Thruster Plate
low tech options (but not HEPLaR) for drives.


- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 14:28:27 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Strength /Dexterity in Gun Shooting

In a message dated 98-01-26 11:32:50 EST, you write:

I have changed the subject to Str/Dex in Gun Shooting

<< Think back to your own days in
 >basic.  Remember the emphasis on firm control and proper squeezing of the
 >trigger? >>

Strength lets me carry a gun. Dexterity provided the firm control and proper
squeezing of the trigger.

The assignment of Dex to the Weapon fire task is based on my evaluation of
what is required to shout a weapon. A strong but clumsy person is not usually
accurate. A weak but dextrous person is usually accurate. Strength may come
into play when the weapon is heavy, etc.

In a given weapon situation, a ref could tell the player Str is what matters,
but it should not come a s a surprise (the character probably would know that
well before the situation comes up).

from the chapter on skills

Associated Characteristics
	Characters vary as well in their innate abilities. No matter how skilled an
individual is (for example) in Athletics, physical endurance is also of prime
importance... and of two people with equal skill, the one with greater
endurance will more likely succeed.
	Each skill has at least one characteristic associated with it. In addition,
it is possible that unlisted characteristics may be involved in specific
skills.
	The Connect (Or Disconnect) Between Skill And Ability. Documented skill level
(Skill-2, Skill-4, etc) indicates a recognition of a specific level of
training, experience, or education within the stated skill. Because of the
relationship of skill and associated characteristic, the actual probability of
success by a character in a specific situation can be determined by S+C (Skill
+ Characteristic) on the Chance of Success table.

from the chapter on tasks.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:39:32 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator

Christopher E. Webb writes:

>I am posting this to the TML in order to see if there is interest in
>software like this -- it's about 1/3-1/2 of the proposal I'm submitting for
>my software programming project I need to do for my degree.  The target
>platform is going to be a DOS/Win95 machine; graphics would be preferred
>(640x480x16bit ideally -- that's the best my current monitor can handle).

<snip>

>What other features would be needed to make the system generator software
>package useful?  Does anyone think something like this would be useful?
>I'd really like some feedback (either directly to me or to the list) so
>that I can convince my professors that there is demand for software.

What It Must Do...

1) Produce realistic results.  No standard atmosphere worlds with oceans
orbiting around dim (M5-M9) red dwarfs, no 'M' type white dwarf companions
to main sequence stars (or stars less than 10 billion years old of any kind).

2) Have a GUI interface.

3) Be Win 95 compatible.

4) Allow for the dumping of data in a standard fromat into the program so
that it can be converted.

5) Come with on-line help.

6) Be as painless to use as possible (partially accomplished by #2).

   You have a beta tester right here as soon as you require one.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:03:38 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 CardSharks@aol.com wrote:

> But wouldn't you call it "death" when the heart stops. Then you have 10
> minutes (or some other length of time, depending on technology) to revive. Or
> thow him in a low berth and get him to a hospital.
> 
> Marc
> 

Ahhh...we're using different definitions of 'dead' here. I mean dead,
unrevivable, nailed-to-the-perch dead, not merely pinin' for the low
berth dead...

This clearly something that needs clarification; by the time of Traveller
we probably will no longer call it 'death' when the heartbeat stops, but
when the person can't be revived anymore or shows no brainwave
functioning.

Death is an _irreversable_ loss of body functioning...when you're heart
stops you get there pretty quick, but if you're under adequate care you
won't.  IRL we're struggling with the definitions of this term, and it's
used far too widely. 

Something like 'mortal coma' is a better description...without care you
_will_ die, and in short order. After all, we don't call a severely
injured person dead, even though they will die without care.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:08:14 -0600
From: Joseph Heck <ccjoe@showme.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator

>2) Have a GUI interface.
>
....
>
>6) Be as painless to use as possible (partially accomplished by #2).

I hate to disagree, but a poorly designed GUI is worse than none at all.

 joe                          (573) 884-6766
 ccjoe@showme.missouri.edu    http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe
 PGP Fingerprint: E3 3F DF 08 BE 3E 44 A0  EE A9 80 7E 22 99 CD DF

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:44:51 -0600
From: "markn@wavefront.com" <markn@wavefront.com>
Subject: re: Computer Computational Rating Transfer Rates

> I recall someone writing a paper a few years back that suggested if you
> use lots of lasers at different frequencies, a single fibre pair could
> shift multiple Tb/s. I can't remember exactly how many, but it was irrelevant
> because BT would only need a single pair.

It's been a few years, but it seems to me that that requires a different
type 
of fiber.  I do remember doing calculations related to this though, and
the 
number of "channels" was dependant on a property of the medium.....  
 
Mark

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:38:53 -0800
From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <schoon@aimnet.com>
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

 jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay) wrote:

>With all the physical trauma that your body would be undergoing (boiling
>*and* freezing at the same time) I doubt anyone could remain conscious for
>much over a minute.  The numbers I have generated lead to unconsciousness
>at around 30 seconds and "death" via brain damage at 84 seconds (for an
>average 777777 individual).

>I guess my next question should be "Is this close enough to being accurate,
>or do I have to rewrite our asphyxiation rules from scratch?"

I'd say that's pretty close, or at least close enough not to warrant the
extra complexity of a rules addition.


Schoon

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #45
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Traveller-digest      Monday, January 26 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 046



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

RE: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Question for Marc re psionics
RE: WHAT!?
RE: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
RE: WHAT!?
TNE elements in GURPS Trav?
Re: Strength /Dexterity in Gun Shooting
Re(2): Infini-V on PC (was: My spreadsheet...)
RE: WHAT!?
[T98#40] Darmine
Re: Graphics formats/resolution
re: HEPlaR is *canon*
re: Computer Computational Rating Transfer Rates
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Graphics formats/resolution
Re: Return of Liaison Skill?
Re: Computer Computational Rating Transfer Rates
Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...
Visual BASIC
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:50:10 -0000
From: Alex Ferrie <daishan@malkier.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

Sorry. I was being kind of brain dead at that point. No sleep thanks to sick 
kids - it's not good for you.<g>
Alex Ferrie

On 26 January 1998 00:38, Leonard Erickson [SMTP:shadow@krypton.rain.com] 
wrote:
> In mail you write:
>
> >>  Lastly, there
> >> will have to be pilots to run the shuttle service between the starship and
> >> the ground once they arrive at the new world.
> >
> > Why would the ship be left in orbit. Surely it would be landed and
> > cannibalised for the resources it represents ( particularly the
> > computer tech and generators). It would be much more convenient to
> > have it on the ground than floating two or three hundred miles
> > overhead.
>
> Because designing it to be *able* to land is both very difficult, and
> adds a *lot* of mass, both for fuel and for engines and bracing.
> Remember, we are alraeady talking about something the size of a small
> city.
>
> It's still possible to cannibalize most of the ship if you use
> shuttles. And the part left in orbit can be useful for weather
> observation as well as other forms of satellite recon.
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:15:25 -0000
From: Alex Ferrie <daishan@malkier.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Question for Marc re psionics

I've just been looking over some of the little black books again (borrowed from 
a friend who found the whole set for ?20 at a jumble sale - lucky man). While I 
was flicking through the library data I noticed that the psionic suppression 
happened in 800 c. Given that milieu 0 is almost a millennium before this, how 
does it affect the operation of psionics in the game.
	I suppose I have two main queries here
		1 - just how advanced is psionic research around year 0 and
		2 - do the psionic institutes operate openly ( if they even exist at all
		     yet?

The T4 rulebook takes the standard stance of a disapproving public but there is 
no indication in the library data that this was the case during the birth of 
the Imperium.
Any thoughts?

Alex Ferrie.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:41:18 -0000
From: Alex Ferrie <daishan@malkier.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RE: WHAT!?

I hate to appear a devils advocate here, but how do you know that the Earth 
wasn't flat then? ( I don't actually believe that, but bear with me). The fact 
of the matter is that for humans the world is as we perceive it, and part of 
that perception is based on the things we are taught to be true.
	For instance, I KNOW that the colour of someone's skin does not make them 
inherently superior or inferior to me, but to a racist what I have just stated 
is arrant nonsense and the complete opposite of the facts. He (or she) KNOWS 
that anyone with a different colour of skin from him ( or her) is obviously a 
lower type of being.
	What I'm trying to say, in a very roundabout fashion, is that there is no way 
to prove that there is a solid absolute objective reality underlying our 
perception of the universe. Can you truly say with any degree of certainty or 
proof that the South American natives who experience visions ( apparently drug 
induced ) are not seeing the ultimate true nature of the world.
	It can be argued ( and usually is by philosophers with nothing better to do 
with their time) that even science is just another religion which happens to 
have the good fortune to appear to predict events accurately.
	As regards Pi, it's only maths. We chop and change maths to suit our perceived 
reality. If someone at some point in the past said that Pi = 3, perhaps he was 
right and we are wrong<g>. After all, for many years doctors believed that 
illness was caused by unbalanced elements in the body ( the elements in 
question being the four classical ones of fire, earth, air, and water). When 
their treatments worked, they warped the theory to fit the evidence of their 
eyes, or more often than not, the other way round. I.E., they saw what they 
wanted to see and interpreted the facts to suit it.

Alex Ferrie

On 26 January 1998 18:37, Glenn Crawford [SMTP:glennc@nelvana.com] wrote:
>
> Spaketh Richard A. Flores
> >OTOH, perhaps it's a matter of reality shift.  I believe that at one time
> >the correct value for Pi was 3 (not 22/7ths or 3.1415926...)
> WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
> Pi has never been 3. It cannot be. The fact that some primitive bozo (there
> apparently is one US state that legislated Pi to be 3) thinks this does not
> make it so. Reality does not change with perception, reality is that which
> KEEPS exisiting when you stop believing in it. If you do not believe in
> gravity, does that mean you do not fall at a constant rate (ignoring
> atmospheric friction for now in regards to terminal velocity). No. One does
> not make laws of reality, one finds them. Newton discovered the law of
> gravity, not gravity
>
> >I base my belief in the changing reality on the fact that many ancient
> >people were quite advanced in their understanding of math and could wrap a
> >string around a cylinder and see what the circumference was in relation to
> >the diameter.
> They were no more or less clever than us technologically advanced house
> apes. Sometimes, just maybe, humans clear up their perceptions and actually
> SEE. I hate to quote a movie, but there is a scene in Men In Black where
> Tommy Lee Jones says to Will Smith that "500 years ago everyone "knew" the
> earth was flat, and up til 15 minutes ago, you "knew" we were alone on this
> planet". But that did not make the earth flat, and did not change the fact
> that there were aliens. 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:54:40 -0000
From: Alex Ferrie <daishan@malkier.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

What you are actually quoting is a well known paradigm in quantum mechanics - 
i.e. that the observer affects the observed by the act of observing. In other 
words, it is actually possible that we are not discovering the natural laws of 
the universe, but are actually creating them instead.
Alex Ferrie

On 26 January 1998 16:36, Richard A. Flores [SMTP:cybernot@gte.net] wrote:
> >> I hate to say this, but I think a colony needs more people than 1,000;
> >> 10,000; or 100,000 people.  In order to get the diverse Gene-Pool we will
> >> need & all of the skills we will need I would have to hazzard a guess at
> >> least 500,000 to 1,000,000.
> >
> >Although I cannot disagree with you, I am forced to wonder how mankind
> >sprang up from a small and non-diverse gene pool.  There must have been
> >a time in pre-history where there were VERY few humans.  What I'd like
> >to know is how primitive man solved the small gene pool problem.  Was
> >there increased radiation from solar influences that created a high
> >mutation rate?
>
> Do I dare say that perhaps God had a hand in it?  I know it's not very
> SF'ish to believe that an all powerful Deity might be concerned with the
> well being of a small band of "primitives" but...
>
> OTOH, perhaps it's a matter of reality shift.  I believe that at one time
> the correct value for Pi was 3 (not 22/7ths or 3.1415926...), then one day
> someone (an authority) said, "It can't be that simple."  And started looking
> for the "correct" value for it and "found" it was closer to 22/7ths (which
> was exactly what he thought it would be).  Then later still, someone else
> (another authority) said, it can't be that simple...
>
> I base my belief in the changing reality on the fact that many ancient
> people were quite advanced in their understanding of math and could wrap a
> string around a cylinder and see what the circumference was in relation to
> the diameter.  There are other (even more modern) examples of this shift in
> reality based on expectations of people (usually authorities).
>
> For example, the atomic mass of hydrogen (and all the other elements) used
> to be the same as their number on the periodical chart.  Someone (an
> authority) decided that nature couldn't be so precise and start looking for
> the "actual" mass and "found" that he was right, it wasn't exactly 1 (for
> hydrogen) but 1.008.
>
> We tend to find what we are looking for.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 19:08:12 -0500
From: Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com>
Subject: RE: WHAT!?

At 6:41 PM -0500 1/26/98, Alex Ferrie wrote:
>I hate to appear a devils advocate here, but how do you know that the Earth
>wasn't flat then? ( I don't actually believe that, but bear with me). The
>fact
>of the matter is that for humans the world is as we perceive it, and part of
>that perception is based on the things we are taught to be true.

Well, as an example, the Greeks knew the Earth was round and about
how big it was.  Unless such changes are retroactive, history as we
know it is consistent with a spherical Earth.  Geology, seasons,
climates at different lattitudes, etc...

This is a rather silly and pointless argument, though, since any such
changes to the laws of nature are completely transparent to us and
appear as though they are 'real'...  Any discussion as to the reality
of 'reality' is better left to a philosophy list and isn't relevant
to Traveller...

(unless someone bases a campaign on mutable laws of nature..?)

Bolie IV

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 98 01:39:00 GMT 
From: s.johnson107@genie.geis.com
Subject: TNE elements in GURPS Trav?

Hey Loren,
    This thought crossed my mind over the weekend while going over some of my
TNE stuff.  While I know GURPS Traveller is going to be set in an alternative
universe where the Assassination and Rebellion and the like never happened.
That doesn't mean that elements of The New Era wouldn't be present or ignored.
Certainly it would be a way to answer some questions that still linger for
those of us TNE folks STILL waiting for a resolution to that game.

    The Cymbaline chips are still there after all and there would be an awful
lot of interest in them for Research purposes alone, never mind the potential
military applications.

    The point raised in MegaTraveller about the Rebellion and fragmentation of
the Imperium's political structures under the surface apearance of solidity
still apply as well here.


    And if you want to be really nice... In the GURPS Traveller Universe the
Empress Wave could still be rolling out from the Core.  Nice long term plot
potential and it would be interesting to have the Zhodani and Vargr facing that
problem with the Imperium gradually discovering that they will face it fairly
soon themselves in the decades to come.

    Just some thoughts...

Stephen

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 19:54:30 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Strength /Dexterity in Gun Shooting

CardSharks@aol.com writes:
>
>Strength lets me carry a gun. Dexterity provided the firm control and
>proper
>
>squeezing of the trigger.

Assuming that the average shot is NOT made while resting the gun on
something, how about the lower of strength or dexterity?  With strength
determining how much recoil you can handle.

Or, if you want to ignore recoil, use the lower of strength or dexterity
for all snapshots, with just dexterity if you spend a round aiming first.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 19:41:29 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re(2): Infini-V on PC (was: My spreadsheet...)

"Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu> writes:
>
>> Planning to, but after the last phone call I had with IG I'm not so
>eager.
>
>>
>
>> So uneager, in fact, that I'm writing to the Attorney General to
>complain
>
>> about IGs business practices.  No products three ^&*^*& months after
>
>> billing, and all James can do is make excuses and and another broken
>
>> promise.  I've been understanding.  I've been _more_ than understanding:
>
>> I've been a sucker.
>
>
>
>What state are you in?

Province.  Ontario, Canada.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:42:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: RE: WHAT!?

On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Alex Ferrie wrote:

> 	As regards Pi, it's only maths. We chop and change maths to suit our perceived 
> reality. If someone at some point in the past said that Pi = 3, perhaps he was 
> right and we are wrong<g>.

And all of the technology suddenly stops working because baseless words
are more powerful than physical facts.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 02:06:27 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: [T98#40] Darmine

On Sun, 25 Jan 1998 11:54:05 -0500, kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de
(Michael Koehne) wrote:

>	send your writings to "Freelance Traveller" they are hosting other
>	peoples traveller stuff, and I think are able to HTMLify them.

Absolutely we are (I am).  I can take plain text or MS-Word; mail
to jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com, or to freetrav@hotmail.com
(plain text only).  The first will get attention sooner; I
haven't really activated the hotmail address yet (I set it up for
the redesign of Freelance Traveller that's under way now).

- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 20:45:23 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Graphics formats/resolution

On 01/25/98 at 09:49 PM,  J-Man <j-man@iname.com> said:

>> details showed up. In print and screen, the 150dpi
>> seemed to be the best balance between detail and size,
>> though I couldn't say whether gif or jpg were noticeably
>> better.    For B&W, the 16 colors are a definite no --
>> the

>I agree totally.

AOL.

Re: Resolution...

The 300dpi, obviously, looked best, but was much to large for my screen
display. The 90dpi was fast, but too small and had some artifacts.  The
150dpi was a nice compromise.

Re: Color depth...

For b&w and line drawings there's no reason to use more than 16
colors/shades of gray. For the color plates, I'd say use jpeg...yes, you
lose some detail, but it wasn't enough to bother me and saves huge amounts
of space.

What are you thinking about for text?

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 19:07:35 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@m9.sprynet.com>
Subject: re: HEPlaR is *canon*

BTW:

Me and my gearheaded freinds are working on a (albet not very very 
realistic, but it seems to stick to CT just fine) port of CT/MT 
turret weapon systems to FFS/T4. We jest liked them better, ya'know? 
:)

If anyone is interested, lemme know.

> The comments as to whether or not HEPLaR is canon are really a result of
> the abandonment of thruster plates in the transition(*) between MT(**) and
> TNE. This got up a lot of people's noses at the time (mine included) as
> although it was 'more realistic' it threw a lot of the old Traveller canon
> out, and changed the feel of the game.
> 
> IMO it would have been better managed if TNE adopted HEPLaR as the standard
> ship drive for the RC and ruled that T-Plates were abandoned due to the
> technology's vulnerability to Virus.
> 
> T4, as published has its own little quirks - the version of QSDS in the
> rules allows you to build a TL9 ship with a JDrive. However, HEPLaR is a
> TL10 technology so you can't install a drive on it, something that I hope
> TNAS/QSDS2 will solve.
> 
> >Just because there were
> >>not rules on them specifically doesn't make them non cannon.
> 
> I agree with your last point.
> 
> Dom
> 
> (*)Other significant changes include the higher TL of lasers etc.
> (Something that irritates me with T4).
> 
> (**) I know that High Guard 1st Edition mentioned the use of Fusion
> Engines. MT's "Hard Times" introduced a whole series of non-Thruster Plate
> low tech options (but not HEPLaR) for drives.
> 
> 
> ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
> "Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
>    "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 
> 
> 
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com           http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

Thought for the day:
    A penny saved is ridiculous.

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 19:07:35 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@m9.sprynet.com>
Subject: re: Computer Computational Rating Transfer Rates

That's all that I work in :) (and Campus area, metro area and WAN's)

> You must be thinking lans, telecom networks are already much beyond this:
> 
> Nortel has a bit of kit that will put 10Gb/s down a pair of fibres
> using a single laser frequency (it does cost more than a pc lan card though.)
> 
> I recall someone writing a paper a few years back that suggested if you
> use lots of lasers at different frequencies, a single fibre pair could
> shift multiple Tb/s. I can't remember exactly how many, but it was irrelevant
> because BT would only need a single pair.
> 
> Phil
> 
> (ps, I can't remember if that single pair allowed for everyone using 
> holographic videoconferencing instead of voice - I think it did :-)
> --
>   Mailto:Philk@btinternet.com (don't blame BT - they only pay me:)
>   Get out of the Way! Another Salvo bandwagon is beginning to roll.
>   http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/
> 
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com           http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

And the quantium ducks sayth unto you
Quark, Quark Quark

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 01:47:44 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 01:00:18 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> >> HIT EFFECT VARIANCE
> >>       All hit effects (Hits, Suffocate) are subject to a variance of +/- 5 
> > (based
> >> on a +D-D roll). When hits are inflicted, the final value is then adjusted 
> > by
> >> a +D-D roll. For example, 6D Hits is read as 6D +D -D Hits.
> >     ^^^^                                       ^^^^^^^^
> >
> > Hmmm... this is *new*-- and a bit unnecessary, IMHO.
> 
> I think it'll have little effect at higher numbers of dice. But with
> low numbers, I think it'll give a better distribution. I'll have to
> write some quick and dirty code to see the exact curves.

It will, of course, have an affect on the general shape of the bell curve,
but I can see a lot of problems with it as well.

1) TMLers have already stated their dislike of massive amounts of dice.
   During the Great Task System Debate of '97, some people claimed that
   even 4 or 5 dice were too many.

2) If you thought there was a big stink over the "half die"...

3) Players will need two additional dice that are marked differently than
   the others-- a green one for the "+D" and a red one for the "-D", for
   example.

4) Making a Difficult Task will now involve four different coloured dice,
   assuming that people will be using yet another colour to differentiate
   the "half die" from all the others.

Partial Solution:

Increase the number of dice used for each difficulty by one (Easy=2D,
Average=3D, Difficult=3.5D, and so on.  The "-D" could then be a single die
of another colour (reducing the total number of coloured dice to a maximum
of three).

I still think it is a bit unnecessary, however.  I thought you (Marc) had
already decided on the current task dice format-- or is that changing as
well?



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

 Money talks... it usually says "bend over"...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:19:10 -0600 (CST)
From: Joseph Heck <ccjoe@showme.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: Graphics formats/resolution

About the resolution:

If I want to print something, I'll want it as high as I can get it -
300dpi would be great. I'd like to have an option to have a viewable
source that's all 72/75dpi, and possibly in color, but I expect I'll be
wanting to print at least some, if not all, of this out. I'd request
300dpi GIF images, in grayscale for anything along these lines.

What I view the data in will make a big difference to me on what I'd like
to have the resolution set at. If I can have both at once (i.e. in PDF
or similiar format), then I'd say make'm all in 300dpi, and let the
program render the lesser dpi images for me. 

- -- 
 joe                          (573) 884-6766
 ccjoe@showme.missouri.edu    http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/
 PGP Fingerprint: E3 3F DF 08 BE 3E 44 A0  EE A9 80 7E 22 99 CD DF

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 19:07:35 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@m9.sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Return of Liaison Skill?

> > What I have always done is give each weapon a recoil value, and
> > let the firer's STR over come it. If you cannot over come it, then
> > you gain the bonus of having a -DM on the shot.
> 
> Something like the TNE recoil rules. Works for me.

Accually.. I first got it from GGG, and then saw Wow.. TNE Has it to! 
:)

Another Thought..

[Rant Mode On]

On CT/MT vs. TNE/T4.

I am an oldtimer. I have been playing traveller since dirt was young. 
In my JH and HS days, we loved traveller, and played the heck out of 
it.

When MT hit the market, I snatched it up ASAP. Those books are even 
more worn then my CT books. I think that MT was better in some 
respoects then CT (tho, I longed for the days of really simply ship 
construction).

When TNE hit the market, I snatched it up, and within 2 weeks, sold 
it for 1/2 the amount that I had payed for it. When T4 hit the 
market, I decided to give the New Traveller one more chance. I am now 
going to give it another chance.

I have BL, BR and FFSv1, and v2. I really like some of the stuff. 
However, I really hate some of the stuff.  99% of my beefs with T4 
are in the starship weapons system. (TNE, on the other hand.. I 
really had a problem with a .45 ACP in the chest _scratching_ the 
rather husky human target). I could even understand heplar, as the 
PP's got way more effecent, and I saw that the huge amount of fuel 
for the early PP's in CT was probally reaction mass (plus, I loved 
one scene where a PC's ship was in a rather desprate manuver, got 
shot, and ran outta gas hurtling towards a really big thing<grin>).

IMHO these arguements over hard science are simply reduclious (scuse 
the spelling, I may work for a School, but I an't no teacher). 
Traveller is a game. Most traders are not going to have a CIWS 
that could intercept 2,000 100g bb's in 1/1000'th of a second. They 
will use that space for cargo. Money in the bank. Larger warships 
might carry them... so you do not fire the KKM at that 20,000 Dton 
escort cruser. It'll just piss it off.

Traveller has been, and hopefully will stay, a game about people. 
charactors. role playing. The technology should take a back seat. 
Yeah, it's nice to be able to explain in detail how the 
hydrospanner's EMP feild interacts with the dongle's JRQ feild 
causing the little light on the bridge to blink.. and there are some 
people who will be intrested in that (like me). But it is hard to 
justify totally changing the way the universe works (three weapons 
per turret vs one for example) because _right now_ our top scientists 
do not think that would work.

I would like to see traveller get back to the simpler days.. I think 
that T4 started in the right direction (it just got derailed before 
it left the station)

Thank you for your time

[Rant Mode Off]

 
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com           http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

Thought for the day:
    A penny saved is ridiculous.

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:28:10 EST
From: Darth <Darth@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Computer Computational Rating Transfer Rates

Well, I'll just jump in here.

Fiber optic systems can be "single mode" (where only one laser is doing the
work of sending short bursts of light down the fiber length) or "multimode"
(where multiple lasers "bounce" bursts within the body of the fiber itself).

Single mode is the easiest to conceptualize ... one flashing light sending
lots and lost of information.  Multimode involves conceptualizing the fiber as
a big "pipe" with reflective walls.  If you point a light at a mirror, it will
"bounce" at a specific angle ... and in multimode fiber, light just keeps
bouncing and bouncing down the length of the fiber (yes, there are rules about
the angle you're allowed to "bend" the fiber during install, so that
propagation is not impacted) till it reaches the sensor at the far end of the
fiber.

There's also multiwave fiber systems being deployed ... different FREQUENCIES
of light are used to "multiplex" data streams along the same fiber.  Think of
the next door neighbor using both a red and blue flashlight to signal you with
Morse code from across the street.  You're basically getting two signals in
the same transmission medium (the airspace between the houses).

Visible light has a LOT of different frequencies ... so given a high enough
tech level, you could just keep using more and more frequencies to transmit
LOTS and LOTS of data.

Regards, 

  Darth

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 19:30:34 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...

<delurking>

At 03:35 pm 1/26/98 EST, you wrote:
>This is (again) what TNE did w/ Tplates, but there was a blurb
that could be
>made for "how" tplates could work and what was wrong w/ them.
There isn't a
>way (short of extreme reaching) to rationalize plasma/fusion
weapons.  The
>line had to be drawn somewhere,i'd guess.   Time simply may have
ran out (as
>it did w/ FFS2).  Dave, did u consider making plasma/fusion
weapons for FFS2?

	The idea/hope popped up of finding some way to work it, but
given the lack of time to even write what got done, nobody
expended any brainpower on what looked like a lost cause at
first.  But notice we did manage to bring PAW bays back ...

>KKMs have long been an issue (and still is) but w/out resorting
to extreme
>measures (like Bubba) they're not feasable at Traveller ranges
if Traveller
>laser weapons are as good as they're stated to be.

	Lasers _and_ sensors. And given the work Bruce has done on the
sensor system, I believe the figures it gives. The lasers become
necessary to stick with other aspects of Traveller "canon."  But
I agree with those who're trying to come up with something that
works--saying they don't work, and you don't need defenses
against them, simply makes them work, so you do need defenses, so
they don't work, so you don't need defenses, so they work, so
<SMACK!> Sorry.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj
- --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he
establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 13:31:35 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Visual BASIC

Thanks for the references Jim.

Do you know if VB has to be compiled or anything like that?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 13:37:42 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

>For the record, my ship was the design posted -
>
>It had 1,000 adult colonists in cold sleep - but nearly 25std of "cold
>storage" for animal and human embryos. So the question is, how many embryos
>could be stored in a freezer unit 350 cubic meters in side. Figure 50% of
>these embryos are human (the rest animal), and you have a much larger gene
>pool than the original 1,000 adult colonist.

I figure about 10 cc per embryo (human or otherwise), including containment
and waste space, so you'd have 35,000,000 embryos.

>In my particular campaign, the adult colonist were hand-picked and agreed
>that for each natural child they had, they would also bear one of the
>embryos. This practice would continue until at last all the emryos had been
>introduced into the population. Thus, genetic diversity.

That means that they would have to have how many children?  Even if they
were all female...

>In particular, in my camapign, this made for some interesting social and
>religious dynamics - but thats another topic :)
>
>

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #46
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Traveller-digest      Tuesday, January 27 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 047



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Enterprise and saucer seperation
Re: Q: Zhodani Ship Configuration (?)
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: WHAT!?
Re: HEPlaR is *canon*
Weapon Skills
Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator
Re: WHAT!?
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Death and Dying
Missiles and Maneuver Drives [longish]
Re: Death and Dying
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re(2):  Computer Computational Rating Transfer Rates
Re: Missiles and Maneuver Drives [longish]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 22:08:56 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Enterprise and saucer seperation

>>Not for NCC 1701 ("no bloody A, B, or C" to quote Scott).  However, for
the
>>later models, maybe.
>
>Me, i used to be a TOS Fan all teh way till i realized how silly alot of
Star
>Trek is.  I still prefer TOS to all the others.  It is implied in several
>sources (model kits and books) that the original Enterprise (1701) could do
>saucer seperation but it was kicked free via explosive bolts (reconnection
>possible at a Starbase).  It was pretty old in theory.  Mr Scotts guide to the
>Enterprise also mentioned it for the A (w/ teh ability to reconnect).  None of
>this is *canon* for ST, though.  The 1701-D is simply the first to make use of
>it, but the concept is TOS.

What is TOS?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 22:15:21 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Q: Zhodani Ship Configuration (?)

>> gets rid of a need for escape pods since the primary hull is supposed to be
>> >one giant escape pod.
>>
>> Not for NCC 1701 ("no bloody A, B, or C" to quote Scott).  However, for the
>> later models, maybe.
>>
>> The first one was never intended to land.  It could, but in Traveller, any
>> ship can land if it has sufficient bracing.  It may be a rough ride, but,
>> you can get them down.
>
>Actually the original NCC-1701 could also detach the primary hull, it
>was just never done.

Didn't they use escape pods when abandoning the NCC-1701-D in the movie
where the Borg took over the ship in the past.  (You know the one where the
Borg were trying to stop first contact between Earth and the Vulcans.  Come
to think of it I think it was called First Contact.)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 22:33:53 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU> wrote:


>On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Legate wrote:
>
>> Also, why do new colonies always have a low TL?  I mean if you arrive at
a
>> Earth-like world form the homeworld with everything you need to create a
>> vivable colony you will have the state of the art equipment with you. From
>> what I have seen in Traveller all you need to start a colony is warm
>> bodies.  Not true, you will need all facets of life & learning.
>>
>Because the TL-5 tractor you _can_ fix with a hammer, three wrenches and
>a forge is worth 17 TL-12 ones all with a defrabijulator module gone bad.
>
>A colony of necessity needs to be self sufficient, for a time, at least,
>and particularly in the case at hand, which is a sub-light colonization
>effort.
>
>Low Tech (generally) = Easy to fix
>
>In a real emergency, you can bootstrap to making those hammers and
>wrenches, starting with stone tools.
>
>A large HT colony _will_ have severe vulnerabilities that a smaller, LT
>one won't. Like when the last defrabijulator module goes on your last
>tractor. If you had 10,000 mouths to feed, you might get by on muscle
>power. With 10,000,000 there's just no way to do it; those 10,000,000
>people will be counting on their high tech to survive.

Having lived most of my life in farm country in the heartland of one of
highest tech countries on the face of this planet, I have a surprise for
some of you.  Horses (and mules and even occasionally cows) are still used
to draw machinery to work the land in some places.  Tractors that are 50 and
60 years old (what is 3 tech levels below current?) are also in use by men
who inherited them from their fathers and grandfathers.

Just because there is higher technology available, does not mean it will be
used for all applications.  These same men would be incensed if the EMS
brought a 50 or 60 year old ambulance to pick them up if they were injured,
not because it was old, but because for so vital a use, you should use the
best technology you have.

Have you ever seen a replicar?  They are cars that are built to the exact
same standards as the original.  I've seen designs from the 20's and 30's
that are built just like they were in the 20's and 30's.  Sometimes they use
better materials because they are stronger or less expensive, but my point
is that just because you could more easily fix a TL-5 tractor, that doesn't
mean you would start your colony at TL-5.  You'd start it where the mother
world was and use the accumulated knowledge to build the low tech items that
would serve you better.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 22:46:58 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: WHAT!?

Glenn Crawford <glennc@nelvana.com> wrote:

>
>Spaketh Richard A. Flores
>
>>OTOH, perhaps it's a matter of reality shift.  I believe that at one time
>>the correct value for Pi was 3 (not 22/7ths or 3.1415926...)

>WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
>Pi has never been 3. It cannot be. The fact that some primitive bozo (there
>apparently is one US state that legislated Pi to be 3) thinks this does not
>make it so. Reality does not change with perception, reality is that which
>KEEPS exisiting when you stop believing in it. If you do not believe in
>gravity, does that mean you do not fall at a constant rate (ignoring
>atmospheric friction for now in regards to terminal velocity). No. One does
>not make laws of reality, one finds them. Newton discovered the law of
>gravity, not gravity
>
>>I base my belief in the changing reality on the fact that many ancient
>>people were quite advanced in their understanding of math and could wrap a
>>string around a cylinder and see what the circumference was in relation to
>>the diameter.
>They were no more or less clever than us technologically advanced house
>apes. Sometimes, just maybe, humans clear up their perceptions and actually
>SEE. I hate to quote a movie, but there is a scene in Men In Black where
>Tommy Lee Jones says to Will Smith that "500 years ago everyone "knew" the
>earth was flat, and up til 15 minutes ago, you "knew" we were alone on this
>planet". But that did not make the earth flat, and did not change the fact
>that there were aliens.

Did you ever do the string around the can experiment?  If you do, it is
obvious that the relationship between the r and the c is more than 3.  Don't
you think the ancients could see as well as you?  Do you think they couldn't
tell the difference?  As you point out, they were no more or less clever
than we, and yet, they couldn't see that the string they used to measure the
circumference was more that 3 times the length of it's radius?

As for the world being flat, I believe it was for the same reason as I
believe that at one time the correct value of Pi was 3 exactly.  Because of
the reports of those same equally intelligent people that lived in ancient
days.  The sea faring peoples did not speak of the ships disappearing over
the horizon, the spoke of them as getting smaller and smaller until you
could not see them any more.  Even on as large a planet as we live on, this
would not happen if the surface you were on was curved.

I maintain that people find what they look for!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 22:56:37 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: HEPlaR is *canon*

SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> wrote:


>"Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> wrote:
>
>>I don't understand all this discussion of HEPlaR not being cannon.
>
>That's 'canon'.

I stand corrected and have adjusted my machine too.

>>In the
>>CT books, they spoke of many drive systems, chemical, fusion, etc. that were
>>not in common use in the Imperium proper (except on some back worlds). Not
>>in detail so you could use them, but in general.
>
>The comments as to whether or not HEPLaR is canon are really a result of
>the abandonment of thruster plates in the transition(*) between MT(**) and
>TNE. This got up a lot of people's noses at the time (mine included) as
>although it was 'more realistic' it threw a lot of the old Traveller canon
>out, and changed the feel of the game.
>
>IMO it would have been better managed if TNE adopted HEPLaR as the standard
>ship drive for the RC and ruled that T-Plates were abandoned due to the
>technology's vulnerability to Virus.
>
>T4, as published has its own little quirks - the version of QSDS in the
>rules allows you to build a TL9 ship with a JDrive. However, HEPLaR is a
>TL10 technology so you can't install a drive on it, something that I hope
>TNAS/QSDS2 will solve.
>
>>Just because there were
>>>not rules on them specifically doesn't make them non cannon.
>
>I agree with your last point.
>
>Dom
>
>(*)Other significant changes include the higher TL of lasers etc.
>(Something that irritates me with T4).
>
>(**) I know that High Guard 1st Edition mentioned the use of Fusion
>Engines. MT's "Hard Times" introduced a whole series of non-Thruster Plate
>low tech options (but not HEPLaR) for drives.
>
>
>------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
>"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
>   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost"
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 21:59:02 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Weapon Skills

On 01/26/98 at 11:21 AM,  ringrose@ascent.com said:

>>Marc, using a firearm is based on your ability to control the weapon as it
>>fires.  This is a function of Strength.  Think back to your own days in
>>basic.  Remember the emphasis on firm control and proper squeezing of the
>>trigger?

>For game balance, I prefer it when the stats the skills are based upon are
>spread out.  There usually aren't many meaningful uses for strength in a
>high-tech society, and even if it's a thin excuse for making firearms
>based on strength, it'll help even things out.  In my experience, this
>keeps variety in the characters people like to play.

Well, there *is* that. ;->  I like to spread the skills across the
attributes too and wasn't looking at it the way you were.

OTOH, if you don't tie a skill *strictly* to one attribute you can get the
balancing effect you are looking for without forcing things.  Use STR to
hold a weapon on target on 2nd+ shots, use DEX to aim the weapon, use STR
as a threshold to avoid -DMs, etc.

Just and idea.

Eris
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 22:15:29 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...

On 01/26/98 at 11:13 AM,  "Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net> said:

>For example, I have a race that prefers to fight close and dirty - so
>their ships are plasma/fusion heavy. While changing these to lasers may
>not seem like a big deal, it looses some of that "flavor" that the race
>had before.

Andrew, I grok your meaning, but you are running into the same physics
problems I was posting about earlier. ;-> The difference in effective
ranges between plasma/fusion (HE weapons) and the laser/paws (beam weapons)
are just TOO big. I can see HE weapons out to 30,000km being effective and
60,000 possible, but beyond that their velocity is just too darn slow. If
you can come up with a handwave that doubles or triples that without
breaking every other technology I'm all with you, and maybe you can find a
way to cut the beam weapon's range in half while you're at it.  <no joke>

>Some people have suggested that classic missiles were not necessarily KKM
>-
>they are simply listed as "conventional" and "nuclear" - why can't the
>"conventional" be det-laser? Because it CT, "conventional" warheads were
>not affected by nuclear dampers - det-laser are.

I haven't tried this, but are we sure that det-lasers *have* to be nuclear?
Might it be possible to build single shot chemically pumped det-lasers,
maybe a combination of EPG's and big laser cartridges?

>I also don't think the system should be "If you want
><KKM/Fusion/Plasma/Repulsor>, just add it yourself." These items are game
>canon, for better or for worse. The system should be "Here are the rules
>for <KKM/Fusion/Plasma/Repulsor>, but note that these items are perhaps
>scientifically unsound, and you are free to ignore these rules." The game
>should be backwards compatable - even if these things are not "official"
>any more.

Hear! Hear! I argued for alternative tech to be included in FFS2 and got
shot down.  I understood Marc's reasoning, don't confuse things with
alternatives, but I can't say I agreed with it.  Of course, *I've* never
been overly concerned with orthodoxy.

Yes, I'm still...

Eris,
    the Heretic! ;->
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 22:21:34 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

On 01/26/98 at 10:27 AM,  CardSharks@aol.com said:

><< For example, 6D Hits is read as 6D +D -D Hits.
>     ^^^^                                       ^^^^^^^^
> 
> Hmmm... this is *new*-- and a bit unnecessary, IMHO. >>

>How much is a "bit" unnecessary? Maybe + half die minus half die for a
>range from -2 to +2?

Marc, the "a bit unnecessary" might not be the range of values, it might be
the rolling of an extra two dice and a subtraction on every damage roll. I
like the concept of +/-, but without playtesting it I'm not sure it adds
enough functionality to offset the addtional complexity. It's a "have to
try it before you can tell" type of thing.

Eris
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 22:39:57 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator

On 01/26/98 at 05:39 PM,  "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu> said:

>What It Must Do...

>1) Produce realistic results.  No standard atmosphere worlds with oceans
>orbiting around dim (M5-M9) red dwarfs, no 'M' type white dwarf companions
>to main sequence stars (or stars less than 10 billion years old of any
>kind).

I agree with this.

>2) Have a GUI interface.

Well, let's say "not a CLI" anyway. Galactic isn't GUI, but it is a
perfectly usable menu based system.

>3) Be Win 95 compatible.

I'd say DOS compatible, myself. Windows can run DOS, Mac can run DOS, OS/2
can run DOS, Amiga can run DOS, Linix can run DOS, and DOS can run DOS.
Writing in DOS still gives you maximum coverage.

>4) Allow for the dumping of data in a standard fromat into the program so
>that it can be converted.

Yeap, and while we're at it the Trav software writers should come up with a
standard format for use amongst themselves. 

>5) Come with on-line help.

Sounds good to me, but if this is a GUI then an well written and searchable
on-line manual is as good as built in help.

>6) Be as painless to use as possible (partially accomplished by #2).

Yes to the first half, not necessarily to the second. ;->

Eris
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:24:50 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: WHAT!?

Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU> wrote:


>On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Alex Ferrie wrote:
>
>> As regards Pi, it's only maths. We chop and change maths to suit our
perceived
>> reality. If someone at some point in the past said that Pi = 3, perhaps
he was
>> right and we are wrong<g>.
>
>And all of the technology suddenly stops working because baseless words
>are more powerful than physical facts.
>
You missed the whole point.  It's not the words, but the reality that
underlies the words.  If reality shifts, then everything shifts.  If Pi gets
larger, then the circles get larger (area-wise) too.  Nothing stops, it just
changes and continues.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:30:35 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

James Lindsay <jlindsay@direct.ca> wrote:


>On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 01:00:18 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> >> HIT EFFECT VARIANCE
>> >>       All hit effects (Hits, Suffocate) are subject to a variance of
+/- 5
>> > (based
>> >> on a +D-D roll). When hits are inflicted, the final value is then
adjusted
>> > by
>> >> a +D-D roll. For example, 6D Hits is read as 6D +D -D Hits.
>> >     ^^^^                                       ^^^^^^^^
>> >
>> > Hmmm... this is *new*-- and a bit unnecessary, IMHO.
>>
>> I think it'll have little effect at higher numbers of dice. But with
>> low numbers, I think it'll give a better distribution. I'll have to
>> write some quick and dirty code to see the exact curves.
>
>It will, of course, have an affect on the general shape of the bell curve,
>but I can see a lot of problems with it as well.
>
>1) TMLers have already stated their dislike of massive amounts of dice.
>   During the Great Task System Debate of '97, some people claimed that
>   even 4 or 5 dice were too many.
>
>2) If you thought there was a big stink over the "half die"...
>
>3) Players will need two additional dice that are marked differently than
>   the others-- a green one for the "+D" and a red one for the "-D", for
>   example.

You could just roll two dice and subtract seven (2D-7) and get the same
results.

>4) Making a Difficult Task will now involve four different coloured dice,
>   assuming that people will be using yet another colour to differentiate
>   the "half die" from all the others.
>
>Partial Solution:
>
>Increase the number of dice used for each difficulty by one (Easy=2D,
>Average=3D, Difficult=3.5D, and so on.  The "-D" could then be a single die
>of another colour (reducing the total number of coloured dice to a maximum
>of three).
>
>I still think it is a bit unnecessary, however.  I thought you (Marc) had
>already decided on the current task dice format-- or is that changing as
>well?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 22:51:39 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Death and Dying

On 01/26/98 at 04:03 PM,  Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
said:

>Death is an _irreversable_ loss of body functioning...when you're heart
>stops you get there pretty quick, but if you're under adequate care you
>won't.  IRL we're struggling with the definitions of this term, and it's
>used far too widely. 

>Something like 'mortal coma' is a better description...without care you
>_will_ die, and in short order. After all, we don't call a severely
>injured person dead, even though they will die without care.

Right, that's the way I see it.  A person riddled with bullets, dumped into
a vacuum, run throw with a sword may be go down and be *dead* soon, but
still be revivable given immediate medical attention.

Your T4.1 rules have a PC going unconscious after 2 stats go negative and
dying when all 3 drop to 0 or below.  I'd have them start rolling against
*something* when 1 stat goes to 0 to prevent falling unconscious, going
down with 2 and being irrevocablely dead with all 3.

Additionally, I think unattended wounds should continue to worsen turn by
turn.  Say every turn without treatment you lose 1 point from one of your
above 0 stats?  Now our hero can continue on after the fight without
medical attention, but only for so long before she wears down and falls
unconscious, and if she still doesn't get attention she will eventually
die.  Of course, if you do it this way you'll have to deal with the
"killing scratch."  ;->

Eris
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 21:47:04 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Missiles and Maneuver Drives [longish]

On 01/25/98 at 11:29 PM,  Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com> said:

>> I assume you mean because of the Heplar/Thruster thing rather than
>> KKMs?

I want to mention the Heplar/Thruster thing at the end of this post, but
the main issue is classic missiles.

>> I may well be wrong, but I see nowhere in any of my TNE stuff where it
>> explicitly said that kkms were unfeasable.  I learned that on this list.
>> There simply weren't any included w/ the space combat rules (generic or
>> Brilliant Lances).  Just make some and put them in and *pretend* that they
>> can't be counteracted w/o resorting to intricate measures like "bubba."
>> lol... damn that sounds funny. ; )

>Actually it was printed in the Designers notes to Brilliant Lances which
>was in some Challenge or another (#51?). They argued that since
>non-det-laser missiles were easy to shoot down, they simply would not
>exist. Kinda dumb, actually since ignoring them means that you have no
>real defenses, and then you are vulnerable to the very missiles that are
>"impossible" to use in practice. I always liked 'em myself :-)

Ok, what *would* make (non bb) kkm missiles feasible?

 1.  Shorter Sensor ranges - Ships would have less time to detect and
     target the missiles.
        
 2.  Shorter Laser ranges - Ships would have less time to shoot the
     missiles it did detect.
                            
 3.  Less accurate targeting - Lasers hit less often.
   
 4.  Much higher accelerations for missiles - Missiles cross kill zone
     faster and are harder to target.

What do I think about these 4 possibilities?

1.  I think a lot of us would like to lower sensor *lock* ranges
    somewhat.  Personally, I think active ships should be able to see
    each other much further than their weapon's can lock and hit
    targets...well that's the game effect I'd like to see.  Of course,
    sensing isn't locking and ships are much larger than missiles.  The
    *physics* is against me on this one, but it's still the game effect
    I'm looking for.

2.  Ranges for weapons, laser and PAW, are longer than I like.  OK,
    *effective* range is shorter, but not as short as I'd like.  I think
    anything beyond 3 light seconds is just too dang far away (for game
    reasons), and I wouldn't object if effective ranges were between 1
    and 2 ls, but not shorter.  Again physics is probably against me.
    Part of my "gaming reason" is I'd like to to keep the counters "on
    the mat" that means shorter than what we have now.
    
3.  Physics again, I guess. 

4.  Higher accelerations for missiles...physics!  ;-> Ok, personally,
    I'm not enthusiastic about this one, that way leads to space
    fighters and I'm not a fighter man.
    
Now about the Heplar/Thruster thing.  

In CT maneuver drives *did* use mass, their exhaust was dangerous, however
they were too efficient to be straight fusion drives.  So, they weren't
called Heplar..they more or less acted like them.  You just didn't track
fuel use closely..for ease of play mostly.

In MT the Reactionless Thruster came along and it has a lot to recommend it
for easy game play.  We've been hassling with the handwave behind them ever
since.  ;-> 

I think the only reactionless technique that really holds together is some
sort of stutterwarp (limited to stl, of course) because it doesn't break
the conservation laws..at least not too obviously.  But stutterwarp has
problems too *because* it doesn't monkey around with momentum.  We *need* a
maneuver drive that will produce a real momentum change.

Here's how I'm going to handle it.  

Maneuver drives come in a variety of types, but all of them, expect one,
require reaction mass, and that one (stutterwarp) doesn't change a ship's
momentum..just its position.  Stutterwarp is much faster and more effecient
in deep space than *any* other drive, but doesn't work *at all* in an
atmosphere and more importantly doesn't allow a ship to match vectors with
a planet, space station, or another ship.  Once they become technically
possible they quickly replace reaction drives on ships as the main
in-system drive.

However, every ship must also mount a second drive with enough delta-v to
match vectors.  This is generally Heplar.  Heplar is the most effecient of
the reaction drives (actually *too* effecient, so if we go this way I'd
recommend we back off on Heplar's thrust/weight ratio a little), but it
*does* require mass.  It is used to lift and land on planets, to match
orbits with a planet after jumping into a system, or to match vectors with
a ship.  It *isn't* used to fly long distances across a system, not if your
stutterwarp is working anyway.

How about it gearhead breathern, doesn't this make sense?

Eris
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:51:06 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Death and Dying

Eris Reddoch <eris@pen.net> wrote:

>Additionally, I think unattended wounds should continue to worsen turn by
>turn.  Say every turn without treatment you lose 1 point from one of your
>above 0 stats?  Now our hero can continue on after the fight without
>medical attention, but only for so long before she wears down and falls
>unconscious, and if she still doesn't get attention she will eventually
>die.  Of course, if you do it this way you'll have to deal with the
>"killing scratch."  ;->

Let's not make that always, there's all kinds of accounts of people wounded
in battle and passing out from blood loss coming back around, sometimes
later in the day or even after a night on the "cold, cold ground" and
managing to live with out treatment.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:03:32 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

> >  Lastly, there
> > will have to be pilots to run the shuttle service between the starship
and
> > the ground once they arrive at the new world.
> Why would the ship be left in orbit. Surely it would be landed and
cannibalised 
> for the resources it represents ( particularly the computer tech and 
> generators). It would be much more convenient to have it on the ground
than 
> floating two or three hundred miles overhead.
> Alex Ferrie

Why even waste a good ship like that.  Why not use it as a trading vessel. 
IOW, why not rip out the cold sleep berthes & use the area as a cargo bay
to bring much needed items to the new colony?  Now I can see if it was
built for a one way trip, but most ships aren't.

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 00:10:56 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re(2):  Computer Computational Rating Transfer Rates

Darth <Darth@aol.com> writes:
>
>There's also multiwave fiber systems being deployed ... different
>FREQUENCIES
>
>of light are used to "multiplex" data streams along the same fiber. 
>Think of
>
>the next door neighbor using both a red and blue flashlight to signal you
>with
>
>Morse code from across the street.  You're basically getting two signals
>in
>
>the same transmission medium (the airspace between the houses).

You can also modulate the light in the same manner you do FM radio
signals. If you do this, with a ring-synchronous laser array, you can pump
VASTLY more data down the fibre. This is not new technology (c. 1985 for
prototypes).

There is a theoretical limit, calculated in the same way that you
calculate the 'carrying capacity' of the radio spectrum, but I no longer
have access to a technical library to fund the formulae.  Anyone with a
decent textbook on information theory and the upper and lower frequencies
carried by singlemode fibre (without dispersing) could do the calculation
for us, though.  Any takers?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:06:31 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Missiles and Maneuver Drives [longish]

 
> Ok, what *would* make (non bb) kkm missiles feasible?
> 
>  1.  Shorter Sensor ranges - Ships would have less time to detect and
>      target the missiles.
         
Bruce's sensor rules are too good to mess with. The other problem is
that if the sensor task isn't automatic at some (short) range then
KKMs will certainly dominate combat (you can't shoot them down if
you can't see them) since you can make big KKMs then.

>  2.  Shorter Laser ranges - Ships would have less time to shoot the
>      missiles it did detect.
                             
Usually the range at which you actually get FC on missiles is at
that automatic range, so it's in the 1/2 hex range.

>  3.  Less accurate targeting - Lasers hit less often.
    
Again, even firing at random into the possible postions of the
target hits every time at a certain range since the target can't
move in the beam travel time.

>  4.  Much higher accelerations for missiles - Missiles cross kill zone
>      faster and are harder to target.
 
Then they hit and really kill you, on missile, one kill.

> 1.  I think a lot of us would like to lower sensor *lock* ranges
 
Knowing where they are right now (not even a course) is a lock at
short ranges since they can possible move out of the way in the beam
travel time.

> 2.  Ranges for weapons, laser and PAW, are longer than I like.  OK,
>     *effective* range is shorter, but not as short as I'd like.  I think
>     anything beyond 3 light seconds is just too dang far away (for game
     
I don't see too much combat at that kinda range anyway using things
lie BR/BL. In fact most effective fire (other than shots just
because you feel like you ought to shoot once in a while) is around
1ls. YMMV.

I think KKMs are not impossible at all. BTW, I keep using KKM
because at *any* version of traveller's closing velocities a missile
will have far more KE than explosive energy if it bothers with a
warhead. They are not terribly effective against military forces,
true, but that doesn't mean that they don't exist. The fact that a
..25 handgun is a toy as far as military armored fighting vehicles
goes doesn't mean it can't kill me through my truck window.

KKMs would be dangerous vs. civies, there is no question. Commerce
raiders might use small (hell, CT sized, maybe) KKMs to kill
shipping. Sure, some whould get shot down, but if one hits...

Shotgun type KKMs (fragmentation) would do small amounts of surface
damage, but that is still useful.

Don't sell them short because the TL-15 Imperium can hose them down
easily. And besides at lower TLs (I play in the CT setting :-) they
might be more useful.

- -Merrick

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #47
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Tuesday, January 27 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 048



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Death and Dying
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...
Canon, KKMs, Fusion Guns in Space and PAW barbettes
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: Death and Dying
Re: Enterprise and saucer seperation
Re: Question for Marc re psionics
Re: Strength /Dexterity in Gun Shooting
Re: Weapon Skills
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
sin in traveller?
Re: Q: Zhodani Ship Configuration (?)
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Low Passage now safe?
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator
Re: missiles, low berths, and other canon...
Re: sin in traveller?
Dice Ranges
re: Question for Marc re psionics

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:14:13 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Death and Dying

 
> Let's not make that always, there's all kinds of accounts of people wounded
> in battle and passing out from blood loss coming back around, sometimes
> later in the day or even after a night on the "cold, cold ground" and
> managing to live with out treatment.

As I recall, blood loss is the major factor in battlefield survival.
Prompt medevac saves lives because they can get them someplace to
stop the bleeding. Bleeding out is bad.

Cases like the above will happen, so it might be a good idea to have
a roll to clot off somehow. Cold conditions will help, compression
will help, and so forth. Someone with minimal knowlege could attempt
a task to minimize bleeding (first aid, basically) and the result
might be the loss of a point per 10minutes, or hour or something
until they get proper attention.

The GM could also decide if the wound will get better with whatever
treatment has been done---it might have been a through and through
wound that doesn't hit anything vital and just get better if kept
clean (assuming the initial bleed was stopped so the guy is alive).

If I wasn't so lazy I'd turn on the light and grab one of the
surgery books 2 ft from me, maybe they'd have something useful to
say. *sigh*

- -Merrick 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 01:15:53 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

In a message dated 98-01-26 17:57:46 EST, you write:

<< 
 I think he was meaning the added complication, and I agree. I haven't tried
it 
 yet, though, so maybe it works better than I think.
  >>
Once you get used to it, it adds an element of unpredictability AND allows
that "he just nicked me" situation.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 00:23:04 -0600
From: The Akins <igor@ames.net>
Subject: Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...

TravelrTNE@aol.com wrote:
>PA turrets and Barbettes are just plain ridiculous to me.  Plasma and fusion
Understood. I disagree, but that's my opinion, versus yours.

>Um... maybe that "flavor" was wrong?  I don't mean to be insulting here so
>please don't take any offense, but did u consider that? 
Sorry, but I do find that slightly insulting. How can my campaign be
"wrong", when
I have used nothing but standard Traveller rules...even if those rules
are from
an earlier edition. "Scientifically unsound" I would accept - but I
refuse to say 
that one referee's campaign is more or less "right" or "wrong" if such a
referee 
is using canon materials...and wether you like it or not CT is canon...


>way (short of extreme reaching) to rationalize plasma/fusion weapons.  The
>line had to be drawn somewhere,i'd guess.   Time simply may have ran out (as

The point is, the line had already been drawn in CT - PA turrets &
barbettes,
and Plasma/Fusion weapons DO EXIST in the canon Traveller universe - I
got tons
of GDW books that say so. So some effort must be made to support these
items in
the newer versions, even if (like in TNE with thrusters) a
disclaimer/sidebar is
added stating the scientific reasons as to why such a system is not
likely.

Sorry for the tone of this letter...if you meant no offence by your
post, I
apologize for mine. But I was slightly offended by the tone of your
letter -
basically suggesting (as I read it) that my concerns were irrational.
Being a
long time Traveller player, I take exception to that.

But if I misread you, I apologize.

- -- 
+-----------------------------------------------------+
| THE AKINS - Andy, Chris, & Matt                     |
+-----------------------------------------------------+
| E-Mail:             igor@ames.net                   |
| Family Web Page:    www.ames.net/igor/              |
| Traveller Web Page: www.ames.net/igor/trav/trav.htm |
+-----------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:58:05
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Canon, KKMs, Fusion Guns in Space and PAW barbettes

Andy,

The Fusion Guns in space issue is easy to fix. In High Guard, Fusion Guns
were short range, high damage weapons with high power consumption.

In FFS2 terms, this tranlates to a Circular PAW. If I remember correctly,
FGs in HG were 3 EP weapons, so thats 750 MW. Assume a shot every 2
minutes, so we have 750x120 MJ to play with - 80 000 MJ. This will allow a
lot of laps.

End summary : a short-range weapon substantially more hard-hitting than a
laser.

KKMs are excellent auxilary weapons. Essentially to fight them you need a
CIWS optimised for engagements in the 10-15 000 km range. Essentially, this
means a short range military MFD (to get the +4 to hit - MCr 0.27 at TL12),
a LIDAR (MCR 0.5), a point-defense ballistic computer (MCr 0.2 at TL12), a
rapid-fire laser capable of punching 2cm of superdense (about MCr 3.0) and
a gunner somewhat better than civilians tend to pay for (gunner-3 or so).
Cost is about MCr 4 or so, plus a power demand of about 500MW while the
laser is firing.

Oh yeah, and a battery of your own KKMs, just in case the other guy's KKMs
have armour thicker than your PD laser can deal with.

Now, your average small military ship is going to have these things, as
will big, heavily-armed freighters. Your average Far Trader, OTOH, wont,
and will have to try and eyeball the missile with their main anti-ship
laser battery, without a fancy fire control solution and hope like hell
they hit the missile (which is probably evading at 10 gees), because it's
one shot per 10 seconds or less.

End summary - KKMs are great civilian weapons, excellent for use by and
against ethically challenged civilians, but not a military weapon.

In short, just like a fac 4 missile battery guided by a 1bis computer was
in HG.

PAW barbettes are a bit more of an issue. A 16m long, 2 m diameter PAW at
TL14 has an effective range of roughly 225 000km (Effective focal area of
12pi, effective tunnel length of 8 meters), and a maximum output of 256 MJ.

End summary : a lot like a laser, immune to sand, does radiation damage but
doesnt have the extreme range capability of lasers.


Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 01:12:18 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

Legate <legate@futureone.com> wrote:


>> >  Lastly, there
>> > will have to be pilots to run the shuttle service between the starship
>and
>> > the ground once they arrive at the new world.
>> Why would the ship be left in orbit. Surely it would be landed and
>cannibalised
>> for the resources it represents ( particularly the computer tech and
>> generators). It would be much more convenient to have it on the ground
>than
>> floating two or three hundred miles overhead.
>> Alex Ferrie
>
>Why even waste a good ship like that.  Why not use it as a trading vessel.
>IOW, why not rip out the cold sleep berthes & use the area as a cargo bay
>to bring much needed items to the new colony?  Now I can see if it was
>built for a one way trip, but most ships aren't.
>
I suspect you missed the first part of the thread, Legate.  The ship being
discussed is not FTL, in fact the original concept was one taking a
millenium to reach it's destination.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 00:41:28 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

> >Why even waste a good ship like that.  Why not use it as a trading
vessel.
> >IOW, why not rip out the cold sleep berthes & use the area as a cargo
bay
> >to bring much needed items to the new colony?  Now I can see if it was
> >built for a one way trip, but most ships aren't.
> >
> I suspect you missed the first part of the thread, Legate.  The ship
being
> discussed is not FTL, in fact the original concept was one taking a
> millenium to reach it's destination.

Must have.  Well, even so, why waste a good ship.  If you have the plans
for a jump drive, why not retrofit it with Jump Drive after you have
arrived?

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:30:54 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Death and Dying

At 10:51 PM 1/26/98 -0600, Eris wrote:

>Right, that's the way I see it.  A person riddled with bullets, dumped into
>a vacuum, run throw with a sword may be go down and be *dead* soon, but
>still be revivable given immediate medical attention.
>
>Your T4.1 rules have a PC going unconscious after 2 stats go negative and
>dying when all 3 drop to 0 or below.  I'd have them start rolling against
>*something* when 1 stat goes to 0 to prevent falling unconscious, going
>down with 2 and being irrevocablely dead with all 3.

In At Close Quarters, there are tasks to stay conscious at each level of
wounding.  When you've dropped to 0 in all three stata, you are bleeding to
death and will die after losing 10 more points.  I wrote that as a "death's
door" escape.

>Additionally, I think unattended wounds should continue to worsen turn by
>turn.  Say every turn without treatment you lose 1 point from one of your
>above 0 stats?  Now our hero can continue on after the fight without
>medical attention, but only for so long before she wears down and falls
>unconscious, and if she still doesn't get attention she will eventually
>die.  Of course, if you do it this way you'll have to deal with the
>"killing scratch."  ;->

Also in ACQ.  Without treatment, wounds worsen overtime.  Superficial
wounds (no characteristics lowered to zero) do not degrade beyond lowering
a single stat to 0.

- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:32:22 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Enterprise and saucer seperation

At 10:08 PM 1/26/98 -0600, you wrote:

>What is TOS?

Star Trek:  The Original Series

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:40:27 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Question for Marc re psionics

At 11:15 PM 1/26/98 -0000, you wrote:

> While I was flicking through the library data I noticed that the psionic
> suppression happened in 800 c. Given that milieu 0 is almost a millennium
> before this, how does it affect the operation of psionics in the game.

Look for "Psionics Institutes" for T4.  One of the better books to be
released.  It has some expanded rules on Psionics, and extensive rules on
setting up institutes, attitudes towards psionics, pro and anti groups..
real nice job.
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:47:19 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Strength /Dexterity in Gun Shooting

At 07:54 PM 1/26/98 -0500, you wrote:
>CardSharks@aol.com writes:
>>
>>Strength lets me carry a gun. Dexterity provided the firm control and
>>proper
>>
>>squeezing of the trigger.
>
>Assuming that the average shot is NOT made while resting the gun on
>something, how about the lower of strength or dexterity?  With strength
>determining how much recoil you can handle.
>
>Or, if you want to ignore recoil, use the lower of strength or dexterity
>for all snapshots, with just dexterity if you spend a round aiming first.

For ACQ, we're having different AP costs based on MT-style Recoil (2 for L,
4 for M, 6 for H).  I wanted to get away from using Dexterity since in our
system your Action Point Pool is DEX+INT+Tactics.  You can use extra AP to
increse your target number (up to a certain limit.)  So for me, the basic
STR requirement in the skill task is the proper hold on the weapon, and
high DEX gives you enough AP to improve your aim.
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:53:14 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Weapon Skills

At 09:59 PM 1/26/98 -0600, you wrote:

>OTOH, if you don't tie a skill *strictly* to one attribute you can get the
>balancing effect you are looking for without forcing things.  Use STR to
>hold a weapon on target on 2nd+ shots, use DEX to aim the weapon, use STR
>as a threshold to avoid -DMs, etc.

I've used every stat at one time or another with the weapon's skills.
(Even SOC, to allow a character to recognize the shotgun as being an
antique worth several thousand credits.)

My favorite use of DEX with guns is reloading and clearing jams.. this are
two evolutions that require speed and precision.
- --
+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+-------------------------------------+
| "Some days, you just can't get rid  |
|  of a bomb!"                        |
|     -Adam West, the REAL Batman     |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 02:36:23 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

>> >Why even waste a good ship like that.  Why not use it as a trading
>vessel.
>> >IOW, why not rip out the cold sleep berthes & use the area as a cargo
>bay
>> >to bring much needed items to the new colony?  Now I can see if it was
>> >built for a one way trip, but most ships aren't.
>> >
>> I suspect you missed the first part of the thread, Legate.  The ship
>being
>> discussed is not FTL, in fact the original concept was one taking a
>> millenium to reach it's destination.
>
>Must have.  Well, even so, why waste a good ship.  If you have the plans
>for a jump drive, why not retrofit it with Jump Drive after you have
>arrived?
>
At TL 9 they won't have the plans.  That's why it'll take them a millennium
to reach their destination.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 04:14:52 -0500 (EST)
From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
Subject: sin in traveller?

Hello Folks,
  Considering that no one responded to my question about planets
orbitting M class stars too dim to permit a habitable zone - did I commit
a sin and ask a question that isn't supposed to be asked?  At the moment,
I am wondering if a new "trade" class should be created labled ICE WORLD,
along with a "feature" in the random system generation that says "If star
type is M class, make Atmosphere, if any, automatically an exotic
atmosphere".

  This way, I can now attempt to justify why there are some millions of
people on an M9 class star that is supposed to be one of the founding
planets of the Sylean federation/Third Imperium.  I can't justify an
oxygen bearing earth like atmosphere on a world where there never was a
chance for life bearing oxygen creating plants.  Currently, I am modifying
the planet to be a K9 star instead of an M9 star as given in FIRST SURVEY
- - otherwise, it doen't make any sense...

    Hal

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 01:32:52 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Q: Zhodani Ship Configuration (?)

> Didn't they use escape pods when abandoning the NCC-1701-D in the movie
> where the Borg took over the ship in the past.  (You know the one where the
> Borg were trying to stop first contact between Earth and the Vulcans.  Come
> to think of it I think it was called First Contact.)
> 
> 


Actually that was the Enterprise-E, nod D.  And yes, the primary hull
was packed with escape pods.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:01:21 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

>Greets,
>
>(Doug Berry and) I were wondering if anyone could care to speculate on the
>time it would take for an average individual to die once exposed to a
>vacuum?  I'm sure clothing and preparation might help but I/we don't want
>to get too technical.  Such a character could find himself exposed to a
>vacuum after a major vacc suit tear (assume no patches) or by being blown
>out into space (a la: Spacing).
>
>So, how long would the poor bastard survive before being considered
>"clinically dead"?

The time it takes for the brain to die from lack of oxygen. All the other
gory stuff like lungs exploding (from holding your breath) etc are probably
repairable but the skull could keep the brain sort of pressurized to
survive a couple of minutes.
Messy though...


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:12:29 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

>Too fast. I'm *extremely* unfit, but I can hold my breath for longer than 42
>seconds without passing out, and some people can manage 2-3 minutes. I suggest
>you double these (ie 1 pt every other round).

If you hold your breath in vacuum you'll die real soon. Your lungs will
explode up through your throught with a massive loss of blood and oxygen.
Hyperventilate before vacuum exposure, then keep your mouth open to let the
gas in your lungs escape nicely.

To test this DONT DO THIS!
Dive to 10m water and fill your lungs from your diving tubes. Hold your
breath while you go up to the surface and keep it so. OUCH!


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:55:30 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Low Passage now safe?

>    I was going through FF&S2 the other night and happened to read up on the
>medical rules.  Specifically the ones for the effect a Sickbay has of reducing
>the difficult of all roles by two levels.  The implications of this are
>obvious, suddenly Low Passage on a Sickbay equiped ship becomes a safe and
>cheap alternative to Middle or High Passage.
>    If this stands it also has cannon breaking implications, since Low Passage
>has always been "risky" in Traveller.  This makes it safe.  Thoughts?
>
>Stephen

Most small ships do not have the room/cash for a sickbay so canon still
holds. Low passage on large ships is more or less safe but they're only
going where you do not want to go...


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:15:02 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

>I say we load Bill Gates up on the next shuttle and find out!  :)
He doesn't use oxygen - he feeds on the souls of software developers.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:23:28 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

In a message dated 98-01-27 01:00:17 EST, you write:

<< >I still think it is a bit unnecessary, however.  I thought you (Marc) had
 >already decided on the current task dice format-- or is that changing as
 >well?
  >>

+D-D is not about task resolution; it is about hit points. Once a task (say,
rifle fire) produces a hit, we determine damage... which is nD +D-D. That's
not the same as the 2.5D for resolving a Difficult Task (for example).

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:23:33 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator

In a message dated 98-01-27 00:59:33 EST, you write:

<< >3) Be Win 95 compatible.
 
 I'd say DOS compatible, myself. Windows can run DOS, Mac can run DOS, OS/2
 can run DOS, Amiga can run DOS, Linix can run DOS, and DOS can run DOS.
 Writing in DOS still gives you maximum coverage.
  >>

DOS compatible and Win95 compatible are not the same thing. Making it DOS
compatible just cripples it. Make it Win95 compatible.,

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 07:28:04 -0600
From: "Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: Re: missiles, low berths, and other canon...

I thought I sent this last night, but it does appear to have been...

I don't know if they are trying to be insulting, but I can't help but take
exception to some recent comments made in this topic thread. Maybe I'm
overreacting, but it has been suggested that my desire for HE weapons to be
returned to the Traveller ruleset is somehow "wrong". In particular, I made
the statement that one of my campaign races prefered the use of HE weapons
due to some social/tactical issues (they prefere close combat over long
ranged) - and the statement was made that perhaps I designed this race
"wrong".

Again, perhaps I'm overreacting (after all, its only a game). But I don't
see how my use of canon technology can be construed as being wrong -
scientifically unsound, perhaps - but not wrong.

For better or worse, wether you like them or not, the following items ARE
canon: Thrusters, HE weapons on starships, PA turrets, PA barbettes, lower
tech repulsors, Virus, HEPlaR, Fusion+, KKMs, etc..

I added to the above list several other items, because they are things that
I'm not fond of (in particular, Virus). However, THEY ARE canon, and I would
expect to see rules for Virus in Next Era milleu books and/or sourcebooks on
computers. As a referee, I would simply say "I don't like Virus, I'm not
going to use it." But I certainly would not accuse any of the die-hard TNE
fans of being "wrong" for supporting Virus - because evn if I feel it is
utterly scientifically unsound and a poor plot device - it IS CANON. End of
story.

I can site tons of material that describe these above items. They are a part
of the Traveller history. Thus, I feel it is important to support them, even
if in a sidebar.

One of the problems I have with gearheads (and I use that term as a
compliment - I wish I knew half as much as you guys know about physics and
engeineering) analyzing technology is that such analysis is always based
upto current technology and the so-called "logical" progression of areas of
technology.

Lets look at PAs for a moment. I have little or no real-world knowledge
about such matters, so I will apologize ahead of time if the following
statements are wrong. Currently, here in 1998, we can accelerate particles
in two ways: long linear tunnels, and toroids. Thus, FF&S models these two
items. The efficiency improvement (such as the "lengthening" of the
effective tunnel length) is handwaved as improvements in superconducting
magnets, better energy storage, etc...

....what there isn't is a fundamental breakthrough. TL 15 PAs are no
different than TL 8 PAs...they simply have better magnets, better
accumulators, more power, etc. In my mind, TL 15 PAs could possibly have
RADICAL differences fomr the earlier PAs...perhaps the particles are formed
different now, or accelerated differently, or whatever...the point is, no
one on this list, unless you have the gift of prophecy, can say that there
is no way to put a TL 15 PA in a turret. Sure...a long tunnel won't fit in
the turret - but maybe tunnels aren't needed any more.

It actually bothers me sometimes that we have reduced some of the cool
aspects of this FAR future game to an elementary college physics text. I'm
not against the "solidifying" of the technology - but I think its safe to
handwave a fair amount of it. Jump drives. Contra-Grav. Small PAs. High
Energy weapons. Repulsors. Etc.

Note that it has been pointed out that HE weapons need to be fixed for other
reasons...in many cases these fearsome (according to canon) weapons are
still outperformed by CPR guns. That seems against the spirit of the game,
even if it happens to be physcially correct.

This was perhaps a bit longer than I wanted, and I apologize if this was a
bit heavy handed. Its just some of the previous posts hit me the wrong way,
I guess...

Andrew Akins

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:47:00 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: sin in traveller?

>  This way, I can now attempt to justify why there are some millions of
>people on an M9 class star that is supposed to be one of the founding
>planets of the Sylean federation/Third Imperium.  I can't justify an
>oxygen bearing earth like atmosphere on a world where there never was a
>chance for life bearing oxygen creating plants.  Currently, I am modifying
>the planet to be a K9 star instead of an M9 star as given in FIRST SURVEY
>- otherwise, it doen't make any sense...
>
>    Hal

What about tidal energy heating the planet enough to get some energy
gradients for life to emerge (like the Jupiter moons)? Probably not as this
tidal force would soon synchronize the planet to the star. Hey, wait! If
the planet is synchroniced then the subolar area (closest to the sun) might
get hot enough for life. Or the planet could have been terraformed
including oxygenizing the atmos by humans or ancients or progenitors or
whatever. There are lots of answers to particular cases of weird planets
but the general fact that there are LOTS of planets in orbits around suns
that cannot heat them enough still remain. We could perhaps postulate that
there are orbits insode the 0.2 AU innermost orbit from Scouts (Q: why BTW
do the orbits have to be the same in all starsystems A: It makes life
easier for the referee).


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:00:14 -0500
From: "Glenn Crawford" <glennc@nelvana.com>
Subject: Dice Ranges

I have no idea what to do with these but....

#D+2 bottom, # dice  plus two and ignore two highest
#D+1 low, roll # dice  plus one and ignore the highest
#D+2 mid, roll # dice  plus two and ignore the highest and the lowest
#D+1 high, # dice  plus one and ignore the lowest
#D+2 top, # dice  plus two ignore two lowest

I think it could be used to generate various characteristics (for more
average ranges for characteristics roll 2D mid, or high gravity characters
roll 2D top for strength and endurance), damage (ie armour piercing rounds,
3D low, dumdum rounds 3D top) etc.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:24:32 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Question for Marc re psionics

Alex Ferrie <daishan@malkier.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>	I suppose I have two main queries here
>		1 - just how advanced is psionic research around year 0 and
>		2 - do the psionic institutes operate openly ( if they even
>exist at all
>		     yet?
>
>The T4 rulebook takes the standard stance of a disapproving public but
>there is
>no indication in the library data that this was the case during the birth of
>the Imperium.
>Any thoughts?

There's a T4 book on the topic called 'Psionic Institutes'. Unfortunately,
I haven't bought it so can't say any more, but I think that it's more
open...

Hope you get some sleep soon ;-) and that the illness goes away.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #48
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Traveller-digest      Tuesday, January 27 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 049



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: HEPlaR is *canon* >
Re: Initial colonization considerations
Re: HEPlaR is *canon* 
Non-Traditional Subsector Data Format
Re: Low passage now safe?
Re: Dice Ranges
Re: Initial colonization considerations
Re: Sin in Traveller?
Re: missiles, low berths, and other canon...
Re:  Traveller-digest V1998 #47
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: missiles, low berths, and other canon...
Subject: Re: missiles, low berths, and other canon...
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #47
Re: missiles, low berths, and other canon...
Re: WHAT!?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:33:23 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: HEPlaR is *canon* >

"Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> wrote:

>SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> wrote:
>>"Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> wrote:
>>>I don't understand all this discussion of HEPlaR not being cannon.
>>That's 'canon'.
>I stand corrected and have adjusted my machine too.

Richard,

I was just worried that if you were using cannon and we were using canon,
we'd get slaughtered by your artillery! ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:20:40 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Initial colonization considerations

"Legate" <legate@futureone.com> writes:
>Why even waste a good ship like that.  Why not use it as a trading vessel. 
>IOW, why not rip out the cold sleep berthes & use the area as a cargo bay
>to bring much needed items to the new colony?  Now I can see if it was
>built for a one way trip, but most ships aren't.

If your new colony is close enough to the mother civilizaton to trade with
it, why not go back and fetch another load of colonists? Or sell it to
someone else who wants to set up a colony? Only if there is no further
need for a colony ship would it be economically sound to convert it into
a freighter.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 09:58:17 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: HEPlaR is *canon* 

SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> wrote:


>"Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> wrote:
>
>>SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> wrote:
>>>"Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> wrote:
>>>>I don't understand all this discussion of HEPlaR not being cannon.
>>>That's 'canon'.
>>I stand corrected and have adjusted my machine too.
>
>Richard,
>
>I was just worried that if you were using cannon and we were using canon,
>we'd get slaughtered by your artillery! ;-)
>
>Dom
>
Dom,

I understand.  Don't worry I won't aim my HEPlaR drives in your direction.
IIUC, a HEPlaR drive would make an excellent short-range canNon.

Richard

------------------------------

Date: 27 Jan 1998 11:06 EST
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Non-Traditional Subsector Data Format

A compressed form for subsector data that's still readable
could have a hex number for the row-column data, such as

0310 -> 3A

...but it would certainly not be traditional nor canonical,
and would frustrate automation attempts, and fails for sector
listings (decimal 80 is still two characters in hex).

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 17:35:23 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Low passage now safe?

Anders Backman writes:
>Stephen:
>>    I was going through FF&S2 the other night and happened to read up on
>>the medical rules.  Specifically the ones for the effect a Sickbay has of
>>reducing the difficult of all roles by two levels.  The implications of
>>this are obvious, suddenly Low Passage on a Sickbay equiped ship becomes a
>>safe and cheap alternative to Middle or High Passage.
>>    If this stands it also has canon breaking implications, since Low
>>Passage has always been "risky" in Traveller.  This makes it safe.
>>Thoughts?
> 
>Most small ships do not have the room/cash for a sickbay so canon still
>holds. Low passage on large ships is more or less safe but they're only
>going where you do not want to go...
 
Undoubtedly risky Low Berths was canon in CT. It was not so (or a lot
less so) in MT. And you didn't need a whole sickbay to make it so. You
did need a competent medic, which may give an out...

The big problem with the risky Low Berths is not the risk itself (people
tend to believe that the universe makes personal exceptions for them), but
that a safe, cheap alternative is available with official CT rules.

Take a passenger. Give him a dose of Fast Drug (Cr 200). Put him in a
bunk bed. Deliver him at his destination. Overhead: Cr 200. Number of
passengers per DT: Varies with your assumptions, but a lot more than 1.
(Remember, all you need are the bunks themselves and access space. No
recreational facilities, practically no life support equipment (About
3% of whatever is required for someone awake). Cost of a "Fast Berth":
About 5-600 credits.

Admittedly, there are problems if you insist on sticking rigidly to
CT drug rules; you either have to have recovery dormitories at the
arrival starport where the passengers can sleep off the remainder of
their time in Fast trance (30 days as opposed to the 8-9 days they
spend on board the ship), which will add a few credits to the cost, or
you have to spring for a Fast Antidote at Cr 900. However, even with
the fast antidote you could get the price of a ticket down to Cr1,500
or so, which is about what a Low Berth ought to cost if you work out
a realistic price for it. Also, I suspect that if you can develop a
Fast Drug that keeps you in trance for 30 days, you can develop one
that will only last you 10 days if there is a demand for it. And there
will be a demand if it can cut the price of a starship ticket by two
thirds. You'd still need recovery lounges at the starport, because I
doubt you can time a Fast dose to last exactly a specific number of
hours (not a cheap, standard dose anyway), and even if you could, you
don't know just how long the trip will take thanks to the +- 1 day for
jump durations. Perhaps that is why Fast Passage isn't mentioned in
connection with Free Trader economics; perhaps Class D and E starports
don't have the facilities to cater to Fast passengers. But it should
certainly be a feature between higher class starports. It makes sense,
economically.

Also note that Fast Passage is ideal for medium and long distance travel;
you can carry a passenger for two or even three jumps on the same 30 day
dose and thus practically the same overhead. If fast drug can be taken
consecutively without debilitating effects, it should be the passage of
choice for colony transports too. Now how is that for a canon-breaker?

Now, assume that for some reason 10-day Fast Drug is impossible or (more
likely) expensive. Further assume that Low Berth is slightly cheaper
than a Fast Berth with antidote. Finally assume that Low Berth is just
as safe as Fast Berth. If so, Low Berths survive because the passenger
don't have to spend three weeks after arrival unconcious.

Now assume that Low Berth is risky. Now passengers can chose between a
measurable chance of death and either three extra weeks unconcious for
much less than the cost of a Low Berth or to pay a bit more, but to be
safe. If so, Low Berths do not, IMO, exist as a standard means of travel. 



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 09:50:51 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Dice Ranges

Glenn Crawford <glennc@nelvana.com> wrote:

>
>I have no idea what to do with these but....
>
>#D+2 bottom, # dice  plus two and ignore two highest
>#D+1 low, roll # dice  plus one and ignore the highest
>#D+2 mid, roll # dice  plus two and ignore the highest and the lowest
>#D+1 high, # dice  plus one and ignore the lowest
>#D+2 top, # dice  plus two ignore two lowest
>
>I think it could be used to generate various characteristics (for more
>average ranges for characteristics roll 2D mid, or high gravity characters
>roll 2D top for strength and endurance), damage (ie armour piercing rounds,
>3D low, dumdum rounds 3D top) etc.

Huh?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 17:54:08 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Initial colonization considerations

Richard Flores writes:

>I figure about 10 cc per embryo (human or otherwise), including containment
>and waste space, so you'd have 35,000,000 embryos.
> 
>>In my particular campaign, the adult colonist were hand-picked and agreed
>>that for each natural child they had, they would also bear one of the
>>embryos. This practice would continue until at last all the emryos had been
>>introduced into the population. Thus, genetic diversity.
> 
>That means that they would have to have how many children?  Even if they
>were all female...

It wouldn't have to be the first generation alone that bore them. They'd
just keep it up with the next generations until they ran out of embryos
or the refigerator broke down, whichever came first.

On a related note, I tried working out the growth rate of a colony with
people ranging from 20 to 29 years, no children or older people (I know
someone mentioned something about a few children of every age group being
necessary for some social reason, but I'm ignorant of these matters and
have ignored it (More information on this subject would be appreciated)).
I assumed that every woman would bear, on the average, one child (that
would survive into adulthood) every 5 years and that they would bear
children from the ages of 20 to 49. also I assumed no significant number
of accidental deaths among women of child-bearing age (All assumptions
open to debate, I know). Calculations are simple to begin with; by the
time they became tedious enough for me to quit I had carried them to the
71st year. In that time a colony with 10,000 women grew to a population
(male and female) of 300,000+.

With other assumptions (like all women having a child per year) you can
get some truly amazing growth figures for the first couple of generations.
Not too realistic, IMO. But you could.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:53:58 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Sin in Traveller?

HAL <hal@buffnet.net> writes:

>  Considering that no one responded to my question about planets
>orbitting M class stars too dim to permit a habitable zone - did I commit
>a sin and ask a question that isn't supposed to be asked?

Not at all. Or, if you did, we are most of us sinners here.

The three most frequent reasons why posts don't get a response are:

1) No one cared enough about the subject;
2) Everybody assumed somebody else would respond; and
3) Some cared enough that they intended to respond, but got sidetracked
   before that happened.

In this case none of the above applied. I read your first message 15
minutes ago and just didn't get around to responding before reading your
second ;-).

>At the moment, I am wondering if a new "trade" class should be created
>labled ICE WORLD, along with a "feature" in the random system generation
>that says "If star type is M class, make Atmosphere, if any, automatically
>an exotic atmosphere".

For a new, private Traveller universe your ideas have merit. For the
original Traveller universe the original canon was the habitable worlds
and the canon-breaker is the star classifications that was introduced later.
Indeed, as I understand it, (Marc, correct me if I'm wrong) the original
idea was that the stars shown on the maps were only the ones with useful
planets but that there were lots of stars in between without any use. Then
later these stars were ignored and later again forgotten. Then, when the
rules for determining star class were written, the authors cared more for
making them scientifically correct than for keeping the Traveller canon
intact. Thus all those weak stars. IMO the right thing to do would have
been to make M class stars very rare and let the Scientifically Correct
stellar distribution go hang.

BTW. my personal opimion is that 'scientifically correct' is a term that,
in connection with RPGs, ought to be as suspect as 'Politically Correct'
is in other contexts. Even for a 'Hard' SF game like Traveller, science
is only a means to get a useful RP environment, not an end in itself.
Playability requires that a game universe have consistent rules. But
they do not HAVE to be the same rules that applies in the real universe.
Granted, if you keep your rules Scientifically Correct you're guaranteed
consistent rules. But consistency is only half of what makes a game
universe playable. The other half is simplicity, and if you insist on
being 100% Scientifically Correct, simplicity is apt to suffer.

>  This way, I can now attempt to justify why there are some millions of
>people on an M9 class star that is supposed to be one of the founding
>planets of the Sylean federation/Third Imperium.  I can't justify an
>oxygen bearing earth like atmosphere on a world where there never was a
>chance for life bearing oxygen creating plants.  Currently, I am modifying
>the planet to be a K9 star instead of an M9 star as given in FIRST SURVEY
>- - otherwise, it doen't make any sense...

I agree with you 100%. While a multi-million population colony on a
world circling a M9 star is possible in an 1100 year old interstellar
civilization is quite possible, it should be a lot rarer than those on
Terran-type planets and also a lot rarer just after the Long Night.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 09:48:34 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: missiles, low berths, and other canon...

Andrew Akins <igor@ames.net> wrote:


>I thought I sent this last night, but it does [not] appear to have been...
>
>I don't know if they are trying to be insulting, but I can't help but take
>exception to some recent comments made in this topic thread.
>Maybe I'm overreacting, but it has been suggested that my desire
>for HE weapons to be returned to the Traveller ruleset is somehow
>"wrong". In particular, I made the statement that one of my campaign
>races prefered the use of HE weapons due to some social/tactical
>issues (they prefere close combat over long ranged) - and the
>statement was made that perhaps I designed this race "wrong".
>
>Again, perhaps I'm overreacting (after all, its only a game). But I
>don't see how my use of canon technology can be construed as
>being wrong - scientifically unsound, perhaps - but not wrong.

I know just what you mean.  It's easy for them to stand back a criticise.
They didn't spend the hours you did making sure the race in question
was coherent and fit with in your milieu.  They didn't spend the hours
of loving labor needed to write everything up so that anyone who read
it could understand it.  I'll bet they didn't even stop to think of the
effect
thier comments might have on the man who spent all that time and
invested all that skull sweat to get that race just so.  If you design a
component for your campaign that does not violate cannon, it cannot
be "wrong".  If I choose to not use your race in my campaign, I still
shouldn't belittle your work.  (BTW, if you have the write up in an email
portable form I would like to look at them for inclusion in my campaign.
You may reply privately to:  cybernot@GTE.net )

>For better or worse, wether you like them or not, the following items
>ARE canon: Thrusters, HE weapons on starships, PA turrets, PA
>barbettes, lower tech repulsors, Virus, HEPlaR, Fusion+, KKMs, etc.
>
>I added to the above list several other items, because they are things
>that I'm not fond of (in particular, Virus). However, THEY ARE canon,
>and I would expect to see rules for Virus in Next Era milleu books
>and/or sourcebooks on computers. As a referee, I would simply say
>"I don't like Virus, I'm not going to use it." But I certainly would not
>accuse any of the die-hard TNE fans of being "wrong" for supporting
>Virus - because evn if I feel it is utterly scientifically unsound and a
>poor plot device - it IS CANON. End of story.
>
>I can site tons of material that describe these above items. They are
>a part of the Traveller history. Thus, I feel it is important to support
>them, even if in a sidebar.
>
>One of the problems I have with gearheads (and I use that term as a
>compliment - I wish I knew half as much as you guys know about
>physics and engeineering) analyzing technology is that such
>analysis is always based [on] current technology and the so-called
>"logical" progression of areas of technology.
>
>Lets look at PAs for a moment. I have little or no real-world
>knowledge about such matters, so I will apologize ahead of time if
>the following statements are wrong. Currently, here in 1998, we
>can accelerate particles in two ways: long linear tunnels, and toroids.
>Thus, FF&S models these two items. The efficiency improvement
>(such as the "lengthening" of the effective tunnel length) is
>handwaved as improvements in superconducting magnets, better
>energy storage, etc...

There actually is another (little know) method that was not modeled in
FF&S, stimulated emission (like lasers only on particles not energy).

>...what there isn't is a fundamental breakthrough. TL 15 PAs are no
>different than TL 8 PAs...they simply have better magnets, better
>accumulators, more power, etc. In my mind, TL 15 PAs could
>possibly have RADICAL differences fomr the earlier PAs...
>perhaps the particles are formed different now, or accelerated
>differently, or whatever...the point is, no one on this list, unless you
>have the gift of prophecy, can say that there is no way to put a TL
>15 PA in a turret. Sure...a long tunnel won't fit in the turret - but
>maybe tunnels aren't needed any more.

For stimulated emission, a tunnel is still needed, but one a
thousandth the size used by the methods you mentioned earlier.
Instead of kilometers long, it need only be meters long.

>It actually bothers me sometimes that we have reduced some of
>the cool aspects of this FAR future game to an elementary
>college physics text. I'm not against the "solidifying" of the
>technology - but I think its safe to handwave a fair amount of it.
>Jump drives. Contra-Grav. Small PAs. High Energy weapons.
>Repulsors. Etc.

I'm a diehard gearhead (remember, I'm that guy still sitting on the
rubber sheet with his hand out in another thread), but I have to
agree with Mr. Akins on this.  It is, after all, as he pointed out at
the start of this post, a game.  A game that has been around for
over 20 years with an unknown number of man-hours of
dedicated and loving thought poured into it.  I still don't like any
of the explainations I have heard for the Jump Drive, but if we
are going to call it Traveller, that's the high tech method you use
for going between the stars.

>Note that it has been pointed out that HE weapons need to be
>fixed for other reasons...in many cases these fearsome
>(according to canon) weapons are still outperformed by CPR
>guns. That seems against the spirit of the game, even if it
>happens to be physcially correct.
>
>This was perhaps a bit longer than I wanted, and I apologize if
>this was a bit heavy handed.  Its just some of the previous posts
>hit me the wrong way, I guess...
>
>Andrew Akins
>
Don't worry, we listened to everyone else's rants, why shouldn't
we listen to yours.  :-)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 09:34:52 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re:  Traveller-digest V1998 #47

Eris writes
>Are we sure that det-lasers have to be nuclear?
>Might it be possible to build single shot chemically pumped det-lasers,
>maybe a combination of EPG's and big laser cartridges?

This is actually fairly reasonable - if you cheat a little on how grav
focus works, or allow the "Explosive chemical lasers" to operate at somewhat
shorter wavelengths than normal lasers, and can live with 5000km as the detonation
range. I have some sketches for warheads like this - I'll post them when
I get the chance.

Also, I'm willing to bend enough on impact/fragmentation missiles to admit
that you probably can get reasonable fragmentation missiles, but that
to have any chance of surviving point defence they need to detonate
so far out that they typically get 1 1-gram (or so) BB hit per target - 
which is not an unreasonable level of damage.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:30:26 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Richard A. Flores wrote:
 
> Have you ever seen a replicar?  They are cars that are built to the exact
> same standards as the original.  I've seen designs from the 20's and 30's
> that are built just like they were in the 20's and 30's.  Sometimes they use
> better materials because they are stronger or less expensive, but my point
> is that just because you could more easily fix a TL-5 tractor, that doesn't
> mean you would start your colony at TL-5.  You'd start it where the mother
> world was and use the accumulated knowledge to build the low tech items that
> would serve you better.

But you can't start at the motherworld level without the motherworld
infrastructure. Yoou're looking at a world that has had several thousand
years of cumulative technological advancement. Those farmers aren't going
to complain too much if the TL5 ambulance is working, and the TL-12 one
isn't and the nearest replacement parts are 15 LY away by slow boat. Or
the replacement parts for the factory...or the relacement parts for the
factory-building stuff.... 

They may well retain the knowledge for moving to TL-12, and the rise will
be quite rapid, if the world has the resources to accomplish this, but
when you're starting from scratch, you can't depend on the infrastructure
because it isn't there. The colony cannot depend on everything always
working..stuff breaks unexpectedly, a new world always has
surprises...what happens if your automated tractor factory get's destroyed
by an earthquake? On earth, you simply get the parts from another factory
somewhere else.  Unless you're speaking of transplanting entire _worlds_
that's not going to be feasable for your putative colony.

So what is a TL-5 level tractor built by a TL-12 culture??

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 19:03:36 +0100 (MET)
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
Subject: Re: missiles, low berths, and other canon...

[An answer to Andrew]

There is only one reason why IG can not fulfill your needs. Space! There
is simply IMHO not enough space in books like FF&S2 to cover everything.
The books need to be at a low enough price to be sold and that gives IG a
roof on their production cost. To insure that everything that has been
used throughout the countless supplements for Traveller from the
seventhies until now is impossible. There is unfortunally not enough
reasources or money, again IMHO. 

I think that the word canon is an abomnation that promtly should be put to
death. The four versions of Traveller ar in my view four different set of
rules for a science fiction game with a common theme. The storyline is
IMHO not dependent on the use of KKM, HEPlaR, Thruster Plates,
Plasma/Fusion Guns, Laser. The few things that is needed to conserve the
storyline (Jump being one) has been keept. If you want the CT flauver on
your Traveller use CT, you want MT use MT, and so on.   


Tommy Grav                  tommy.grav@astro.uio.no    
Institute of Astrophysics   http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/
University in Oslo          "If you value your lives, be somwhere 
Norway                       else!" - Ambassador Delenn B5 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:12:35 -0600
From: "Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: Subject: Re: missiles, low berths, and other canon...

Sorry for sending out my rebuttle twice - I thought the first one didn't get
sent (my mail program gave me some weird messages).

Sorry for wasting bandwidth :P

Andrew Akins

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:31:38 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #47

 
> Also, I'm willing to bend enough on impact/fragmentation missiles to admit
> that you probably can get reasonable fragmentation missiles, but that
> to have any chance of surviving point defence they need to detonate
> so far out that they typically get 1 1-gram (or so) BB hit per target - 
> which is not an unreasonable level of damage.
 
I'd think this would be the way to go for convetional missiles. Assuming
that the to-hit is standardized on Small targets, beating the roll
by X points can always increas the damage. Since the roll will be
easier on big ships, this works with the idea that a missile that
gets one hit on a Scout will get several on a BB sized ship (i use
lower case for bearing balls just to be clear from a Battleship, BB
:-)

I would add that against unarmed (or damaged so they can't shoot)
targets the missiles could be set to hit with the whole missile and
be pretty nasty. Personally I like writing the rules for using KKMs
of death, then playing out the anti-missile fire to see if they get
through. Obviously it would take a large number to get thrrough any
real defenses, but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen, just that
people would be unlikely to try since they know how tough it is.

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:18:17 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: missiles, low berths, and other canon...

At 07:28 AM 1/27/98 -0600, Andrew Akins wrote:
>I don't know if they are trying to be insulting, but I can't help but take
>exception to some recent comments made in this topic thread. Maybe I'm
>overreacting, but it has been suggested that my desire for HE weapons to be
>returned to the Traveller ruleset is somehow "wrong".
...

Methinks you are perhaps over-reacting a small amount.  Of course, I may
have missed the posts to which you are replying, but most of the ones I
have seen are pointing out some real problems with certain bits of canon
you are attached to.  (I like the Traveller canon, in general, but it has
things in it that just should not be, because they break simple physics AND
lead to in-game situations where it becomes obvious.)


>Again, perhaps I'm overreacting (after all, its only a game). But I don't
>see how my use of canon technology can be construed as being wrong -
>scientifically unsound, perhaps - but not wrong.

The unsound part is the problem.  IMO, saying a race likes short ranged,
powerful weapons is a good thing.  Saying they like fusion beams is a
problem ONLY because of the problems that have surfaced with fusion beams.
I agree, it is a pain that the fusion beam is not doable with present
understanding.

>For better or worse, whether you like them or not, the following items ARE
>canon: Thrusters, HE weapons on starships, PA turrets, PA barbettes, lower
>tech repulsors, Virus, HEPlaR, Fusion+, KKMs, etc..

A big problem with all of these comes down to how it plays.  If you change
the range you can hit someone at, then weapons become invalidated.
Further, the players figure it out darn fast.  For example, long before the
new sensor rules, my players pointed out that they should be able to detect
fairly well out to 100 diameters, and any world with half a brain would
have a set of sensors that could do so.  They even had a carefully worked
out defense web that would make a world darn hard to take by surprise, and
showed that a TL 9 world could do it with off the shelf technology and a
relatively small investment.

They asked then if they could drop by a TL9 planet to pick up a spy
satellite and a Hubble to improve their detection and ranging in their
system.  This was not happy making, as it showed that the astronomer in the
group knew a hell of a lot more about the issues than I did, and that I
could not tell her to just ignore it.  It would be like telling a present
day gun nut that his .45 pistol has a hundred round magazine capacity.
They just cannot ignore it.

>...But I certainly would not accuse any of the die-hard TNE
>fans of being "wrong" for supporting Virus - because evn if I feel it is
>utterly scientifically unsound and a poor plot device - it IS CANON. End of
>story.

Unfortunately for us, Traveller does not suffer from Star Trek Syndrome,
where useful tech is just ignored after the episode.  If you let Virus
exist to make a TL12 AI, then some player is going to try to figure it out.
 It cannot be the end of the story, because there are problems, and we need
a way around them.  After Virus, AI is a TL12 technology, not 17.

>I can site tons of material that describe these above items. They are a part
>of the Traveller history. Thus, I feel it is important to support them, even
>if in a sidebar.

I do agree with your point here, though perhaps not in the way you
intended.  A side bar describing that these things used to exist, and why
they are not a part of the current canon would be a great help.  Mentioning
that there is a problem with reactionless thrusters, or with non-nuke
missiles, will make it easier on the ref, as the problem is a known one.
Given them a way to fix it, either by ignoring the problem, or hand waving.

>One of the problems I have with gearheads (and I use that term as a
>compliment - I wish I knew half as much as you guys know about physics and
>engeineering) analyzing technology is that such analysis is always based
>upto current technology and the so-called "logical" progression of areas of
>technology.

All technology follows logical progressions up to the breakthrough you
mentioned, but you still do not get to toss out logic when a breakthrough
comes by.  For example, if we know how light focused now, we can trust that
it will go the same way unless we break it.  Once we break it, we must live
with it.  Grav focusing as an annular 1G field does not allow you to make a
burning lens out of the entire star, but if it did, then someone is going
to do it, and it is not that much harder a problem than a TL 10 laser turret.

If fusion beams come back, and give a beam that goes near light speed, then
they are very like PAs.  If they do not, then they have a hard time
hitting.  A proposal to bring them back would be welcome, since I like
different weapons mixes, but the issues do not go away easily.

>This was perhaps a bit longer than I wanted, and I apologize if this was a
>bit heavy handed. Its just some of the previous posts hit me the wrong way,
>I guess...

Fair enough.  I do hope you see this as not an attack, but a comment on why
things have ended up in a state where certain parts of old canon contradict
new canon, and lead to serious discrepancies that are difficult to resolve.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 09:35:10 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: WHAT!?

At 10:46 PM 1/26/98 -0600, Richard Flores wrote:
>Glenn Crawford <glennc@nelvana.com> wrote:
>>Spaketh Richard A. Flores
>>
>>>OTOH, perhaps it's a matter of reality shift.  I believe that at one time
>>>the correct value for Pi was 3 (not 22/7ths or 3.1415926...)
>
>>WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
>>Pi has never been 3. It cannot be. The fact that some primitive bozo (there
>>apparently is one US state that legislated Pi to be 3) thinks this does not
>>make it so. Reality does not change with perception, reality is that which
>>KEEPS exisiting when you stop believing in it. If you do not believe in
>>gravity, does that mean you do not fall at a constant rate (ignoring
>>atmospheric friction for now in regards to terminal velocity). No. One does
>>not make laws of reality, one finds them. Newton discovered the law of
>>gravity, not gravity
>>
>>>I base my belief in the changing reality on the fact that many ancient
>>>people were quite advanced in their understanding of math and could wrap a
>>>string around a cylinder and see what the circumference was in relation to
>>>the diameter.

>>They were no more or less clever than us technologically advanced house
>>apes. Sometimes, just maybe, humans clear up their perceptions and actually
>>SEE. I hate to quote a movie, but there is a scene in Men In Black where
>>Tommy Lee Jones says to Will Smith that "500 years ago everyone "knew" the
>>earth was flat, and up til 15 minutes ago, you "knew" we were alone on this
>>planet". But that did not make the earth flat, and did not change the fact
>>that there were aliens.

>Did you ever do the string around the can experiment?  If you do, it is
>obvious that the relationship between the r and the c is more than 3.  Don't
>you think the ancients could see as well as you?  Do you think they couldn't
>tell the difference?  As you point out, they were no more or less clever
>than we, and yet, they couldn't see that the string they used to measure the
>circumference was more that 3 times the length of it's radius?

You are missing one point, I think.  The ancients, as you have named them,
were not of one mind.  There were strong disagreements about whether the
ratio was exactly three, or something else.

In point of fact, it was a killing disagreement, as they could quite easily
work out that the ratio was not one that fit into a rational number, and
thus could not be expressed as a fraction.  Given this, that meant that
there was another kind of number than a rational.  Given the importance of
numerology, having a new category of number was not a pretty sight.  It was
then the equivalent of today announcing that the Messiah has come, and that
Christ was a myth.  (Whether it is true is not as important for this debate
as the strength and depth of people's reactions.  You can get killed in
certain parts of the world by insulting the majority faith.  You can get
ostracized for not sharing the lack of it in other places.)

Even the Egyptians knew that the ratio was something on the order of 22/7,
right?  I do not have my copy of History of Pi here, but ISTR that they
were fairly advanced in the great search for the true value, though they
did not accept nonrational results.

Among the Greeks, the Pythagoreans came up with the definite need for a
square root in a simple physical system, and proved that it could not be
expressed as a rational.  Proving that the ratio of circumference to
diameter is either a rational or an irrational was a big political hay.
Imagine the present day, if the democrats had a proof of Fermat's last
theorem that required a new class of mathematics, and the Republicans
thought it bunk.  Consider that in this fantasy world, power flowed to the
smartest, and a key judgement of intelligence was grasp of geometry.  Only
a small set of the ruling class was even allowed to enter the debate, and
that they were considered equally authorities on mathematics, philosophy,
and law.

If you read Aristotle, you quickly note a strong theoretical bias, such
that good theory should be valued over good experiment.  In point of fact,
this might have been a good idea, as there was a lot of terrible
experimentation, and the principle of reproducibility had not been firmly
accepted by experimentalists of the time - many reports did not contain
sufficient information to reproduce the effects.

This does mean, though, that a number of facts stated as facts were clearly
contradicted by other facts stated as facts by other philosophers, in ways
that a simple observation could have settled, but nether side wanted to do
the experiment.  They felt, as you apparently do, that the better argument
would be correct, and that merely measuring it would not lead to a deep truth.

As a result, they knew roughly what that ratio was, but disagreed about the
meaning behind it.  Since that meaning was important, a lot of early
natural philosophy became bound up with politics.  Much like there was no
particular reason for science and religion to get so annoyed with each
other for so long, save that a few strong personalities wanted it to be so
during the formative years, and felt that scientific might should equate to
political power, while their religious counterparts disagreed violently.

>As for the world being flat, I believe it was for the same reason as I
>believe that at one time the correct value of Pi was 3 exactly.  Because of
>the reports of those same equally intelligent people that lived in ancient
>days.  The sea faring peoples did not speak of the ships disappearing over
>the horizon, the spoke of them as getting smaller and smaller until you
>could not see them any more.  Even on as large a planet as we live on, this
>would not happen if the surface you were on was curved.

Hmmm.  Given that both the Greeks and the Phoenicians spoke of things
requiring a circular earth, I cannot agree with the above.  (The Greeks had
size measurement, while the Phoenicians used what simplifies to spherical
trigonometry for navigation.  It was not quite correct, as I recall, so
that Greek sailors had a navigational advantage.  Greeks knew that
Euclidean geometry was invalid over large sea distances.)  The drop below
the horizon becomes more pronounced the larger the ship, and thus the
distance it can be seen at, so I suspect there is room for doubt about
accounts based on small ships, a la the Polynesian cultures.

Another slight problem I have with the relative theory of yours - at
different times, different groups believed different things.  What was
"real"?  Or did each group live in a different world?

Just to be clear, I assume that reality is what is there when nobody is
looking, and that all of our desires and wishes alter it not one whit.  If
a creator is running around, on the other hand, said creator would have
more scope to change the world, as he is not a part of such a system, and
it seems like it would be foolish to try to apply rules derived form
observation within the system to limit what something outside of it can do.

>I maintain that people find what they look for!

I agree with this, but in a different sense.  I have done too many physics
labs to think that any set of measurements that has to be agreed upon is
going to be easy, and thus that people will not do the grueling work of
experimental verification, if they can conjecture, and be thought a great
thinker.

Scott

Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #49
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Traveller-digest      Tuesday, January 27 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 050



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: missiles, low berths, and other canon...
Re: Strength /Dexterity in Gun Shooting
dates in UWPs?
Them, They and Me. : )
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Graphics formats/resolution
Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...
So quiet, so rational
RE: WHAT!?
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Return of Liaison Skill?
Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...
Religious Career (DRAFT)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:48:29 EST
From: TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
Subject: Re: missiles, low berths, and other canon...

>>Um... maybe that "flavor" was wrong?  I don't mean to be insulting here so
>>please don't take any offense, but did u consider that?
>Sorry, but I do find that slightly insulting. How can my campaign be
>"wrong", when
>I have used nothing but standard Traveller rules...even if those rules are from
>an earlier edition. "Scientifically unsound" I would accept - but I refuse to say
    I didn't mean any offense or insult.  I'm very sorry if some was
percieved.  I formally apologize to you.  I think "wrong" rated quotes in my
original post on that, too.  All i meant to say is maybe that the race's
flavor is explained by a quirk in the rules (in this case technology) but
wasn't deemed "appropriate" by the current rules (the quirk not your race).
This has the defacto action of invalidating your race in the *current* rules.
I wouldn't expect you to change your race or your campaign, but if plasma and
fusion weapons (or kkms or... etc etc) aren't deemed by "those in power" to be
scientifically feasable are they going to put precious space on those?  I
understand your desire for a sidebar w/ optional rules and if theres extra
and/or leftover space maybe but it a case where other material is being cut
out?  
     Maybe theres a possibilty for a "classic conversion" supplement?  Filled
w/ rules that aren't deemed appropriate but fulfil a classic flavor?  Nah its'
probably not necessary. It would be a perfect article for a now non-existant
magazine.  There's always the Traveller Chronicle...
      Most of the classic stuff is already back in T4.
For all its classicness i prefer d20s by far in my task system, but this is
another issue.

>that one referee's campaign is more or less "right" or "wrong" if such a referee
>is using canon materials...and wether you like it or not CT is canon...

I like CT being canon very much.

>>way (short of extreme reaching) to rationalize plasma/fusion weapons.  The
>>line had to be drawn somewhere,i'd guess.   Time simply may have ran out (as
>
>The point is, the line had already been drawn in CT - PA turrets &
>barbettes,

I was referring to Fire Fusion and Steel.  I think plasma and fusion weapons
have a problem like kkms.  Deemed "impossible" when a comprehensive technical
architecture book was constructed and thus not included.  IMO it is.  Maybe an
article or explanation could have and should have been constructed, but thats
trying to put the mushroom cloud back in the metal cannister.

>and Plasma/Fusion weapons DO EXIST in the canon Traveller universe - I got tons
>of GDW books that say so. So some effort must be made to support these items in
>the newer versions, even if (like in TNE with thrusters) a disclaimer/sidebar is
>added stating the scientific reasons as to why such a system is not likely.

I don't know the reasons these weren't accomidated in (and since) TNE.
Probably just because they couldn't be constructed w/ FFS?  I see that someone
has created a barbette and other items...  The problem is that PAWs have
crappy penetration and thus are useless against big ships.  

>
>Sorry for the tone of this letter...if you meant no offence by your
>post, I
>apologize for mine. But I was slightly offended by the tone of your
>letter -
>basically suggesting (as I read it) that my concerns were irrational.

I don't consider your concerns irrational.  I did tread lightly going there
(when normally, i plod along w/ my knuckles dragging on the ground, quite
oblivious to concerns of offending someone... ; )  but this time i was aware
of possible insult so i stated my intention of no-insult-intended.  

>Being a
>long time Traveller player, I take exception to that.
>
>But if I misread you, I apologize.

I was easily misread.  I apologize for being so and for not being cognizant of
your concerns.

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:45:45 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: Strength /Dexterity in Gun Shooting

Rob Prior writes:

>>CardSharks@aol.com writes:
>>
>>Strength lets me carry a gun. Dexterity provided the firm control and
>>proper
>>
>>squeezing of the trigger.
>
>Assuming that the average shot is NOT made while resting the gun on
>something, how about the lower of strength or dexterity?  With strength
>determining how much recoil you can handle.
>
>Or, if you want to ignore recoil, use the lower of strength or dexterity
>for all snapshots, with just dexterity if you spend a round aiming first.

   We're getting into murky water here.  It could be argued that strength
and dexterity are *equally* important when handling firearms: dexterity for
aimed shots, strength for automatic weaponry.  As with yen and yang, nothing
is truly pure.  While Dexterity is more important for aimed shots (and for
quick draws), I defy you to present me someone with a strength of 3 and
dexterity of "you pick the number" that can handle a shotgun, SAW or other
high recoil weapon properly.  On the other hand, a gunfighter with
Rambo-like strength little Dexterity will be dead *quick* in a pistol duel
with a highly skilled, dexterous, though average strength person with a
light firearm.

   The solution?  Simplisticity seems to be preferred...

   Solution 'A': Use Strength for autofire and shotguns, and Dexterity for
everything else.

   Solution 'B': Add Strength and Dexterity together and divide by two to
get the proper "firearm attribute".

   Solution 'C': Use Dexterity but include weapon recoil as a modifier which
can itself be reduced or eliminated by higher Strength.  (i.e. Wyatt has a
Dexterity of '6' and a handgun skill of '4'.  The handgun he attempting to
fire has a single shot recoil of '3', and he is attempting to fire four
times.  This yields a recoil modifier of '12'.  However, Wyatt has a
Strength of 'A', which reduces the recoil modifier to '2'.  Thus we get: (6
+ 4) - 2 = 8  Wyatt must roll an '8' or less on the required number of dice
to hit with each shot.

   Solution 'D': Similar to 'C', except that Strength is the controlling
attribute and Dexterity acts as a positive modifier (DEX > 6 : +1,  DEX > 9
: +2,  DEX > 12 : +3  ; alternatively a formula could be used).  Dexterity,
not Strength would also be used to see who draws first in a confrontation.

   Solution 'PC': Never allow player characters to have firearms, thus
dodging the problem altogether.  Weapons become something that evil NPCs carry.

   Solution 'KIA': No matter who pulls the trigger or whatever they are
trying to fire, the target is always hit and dies.  This solution also
avoids the problem of keeping track of damage.

   The last two solutions would of course not be the prefered ones, IMHO.  :-)

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:16:30 EST
From: TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
Subject: dates in UWPs?

How about putting the date in the UWP or in PBG or somewhere on there... I'm
envisioning someone looking over some stellar data (hmm...  that's First
Survey data)  that's probably way out of date and messed up (and i'm not
referring to the book!) ; )  
  maybe a # before... Some kind of notation?  The 3I based their system off've
the Vilani's system (which the Rule of Man used too, no?) didn't they?  They
would be able to tell... "damn... this system hasn't been visited since the
Long Night."
   What i'm getting at is not necessarily in the UWP itself, but on a data
line and in a small format that can fit.  Maybe in the trade codes ... Anyone
got any ideas?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:16:28 EST
From: TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
Subject: Them, They and Me. : )

<Andy's post snipped>

Richard Flores wrote:

>I know just what you mean.  It's easy for them to stand back a criticise.
>They didn't spend the hours you did making sure the race in question
>was coherent and fit with in your milieu.  They didn't spend the hours
>of loving labor needed to write everything up so that anyone who read
>it could understand it.  I'll bet they didn't even stop to think of the

Well there is no Them or They...  there is only ME. : )  Seriously, noone else
has been so crude as I (at least in this matter).  I wasn't trying to shred
his race... just mangled my meaning.  Of course, i've already (tried to)
clarify so i won't waste more space.

>effect
>thier comments might have on the man who spent all that time and
>invested all that skull sweat to get that race just so.  If you design a
>component for your campaign that does not violate cannon, it cannot
>be "wrong".  If I choose to not use your race in my campaign, I still
>shouldn't belittle your work.  (BTW, if you have the write up in an email
>portable form I would like to look at them for inclusion in my campaign.
>You may reply privately to:  cybernot@GTE.net )

i wasn't belittling his work!  Mucho apologies all around if it appeared that
way.  Dogpile on me day!  I sentence myself to 1000 lashes.  Life in the
Traveller dungeons...er... brig.

<big snip>

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:22:55 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

Richard A. Flores wrote:

> >3) Players will need two additional dice that are marked differently than
> >   the others-- a green one for the "+D" and a red one for the "-D", for
> >   example.
> 
> You could just roll two dice and subtract seven (2D-7) and get the same
> results.

By jove, you are absolutely correct!

The probability of results for +D-D and 2D6-7 are exactly the same. The
only difference is in what numbers come up on each individual dice.

so Marc's nd6+d6-d6 formula can be collapsed down to (n+2)d6-7 and
produce exactly the same curve!

For that matter, nd6+d6-d6 is the same as (n+1)d6-d6

I might have to side with those urging Marc to reconsider this as
unnecessarily complicated...

Wouldn't it be easier to re-rate all weapon damage values up one level,
and note in the rules that damage is nd6-d6?

Better yet, just keep damage as it is, for if the damage turns out to be
0 or less, what was the point of the to hit roll? That's how it's
determined whether damage is applied or not... that's where the luck of
just being "grazed" is determined.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:32:46 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Graphics formats/resolution

>	As part of the CD-ROM project some example graphics have been put
>up to test
>what might show up best on screen and on printers. So I'd like everybody to
>have a chance to vote on the subject.
>

Using image s150g.jpg I was able to print in an acceptable manner the B&W
Graphic (Type S Deckplan) scaling to 75% (this cut off the bottom 1/5th,
but all I wanted was deckplan) printing directly from Netscape
(Communicator 4.04) on a Mac to an Apple Laserwriter 16/600 PS.

Thw important thing is that I am able to print the deckplan without an
unreasonable amount of fiddling.

Ideally I should be able to print the whole book smoothly, preferably
without scaling the print size.

Pete


Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"Groats!?!  I *hate* Groats!"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:41:51 -0600
From: "Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...

I may be beating a dead horse here...I obviously feel one way (as do some
others), while others take exception...and it doesn't seem like either side
is convincing the other :) However, at the moment this is a fairly friendly
argument, so her I go...>


Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no> said:
>There is only one reason why IG can not fulfill your needs. Space! There
>is simply IMHO not enough space in books like FF&S2 to cover everything.
[snip]

>I think that the word canon is an abomnation that promtly should be put to
>death. The four versions of Traveller ar in my view four different set of
>rules for a science fiction game with a common theme. The storyline is

The truth is though, even the storyline an theme changed from ruleset to
ruleset -
CT - Mysterious, high adventure (the Ancients, trading, etc...)
MT - Rebellion
TNE - Recovery
T4 - Discovery

If you discard canon, IMHO, you might as well say you have four different
games, and only the first (being the first) should be called Traveller. The
first game set up the universe, the technology, the races. I may be wrong,
but it appears that more material was made for classic Traveller than the
other versions - perhaps even combined. Now this might be the "old-timer" in
me speaking, but would think that an effort should be made so that those of
us who own that material (or are still buying it - a great amount can be
found in used game stores and auctions on the web) don't now have a useless
library of paper.

I would even be satisfied (not happy, but satisfied) if a system were
available to convert CT and MT ships, equipment, etc to the new rules. It
has been suggested to make fusion guns circular PAWS in turrets - I'm not
sure this will work. I tried designing one (assuming that the diameter has
to be less than 4.18 to fit in the socket), and I just couldn't get any real
performance.

Scott Ellsworth wrote:
>Methinks you are perhaps over-reacting a small amount.  Of course, I may
>have missed the posts to which you are replying, but most of the ones I
>have seen are pointing out some real problems with certain bits of canon
>you are attached to.  (I like the Traveller canon, in general, but it has
>things in it that just should not be, because they break simple physics AND
>lead to in-game situations where it becomes obvious.)

I agree that I might be overreacting - its been known to happen :) And I
concede that these items that I am concerned about break physics (as we know
it, I will add). That's not my point. Like I said above, perhaps we cannot
agree on this (which leaves it in the hands of the publishers, as it has
always been :) ). This is a science fiction game. We need to cater to both
the science and the fiction. I don't like the idea (and this is me) that we
can say "We're gonna have jump drive (scientifically unsound) and
contra-grav (anyone wanna explain this) but no other departures from
reality. Everything else is gonna be hard sci-fi."

Why is it that you guys can let Jump and CG slide with some handwaves (for
the good of the game, which I agree with), but won't even consider trying to
come up with a pseudo-science handwave for these other things? (and yes, I
know I haven't offered any possible handwaves - because to be honest, I'm
not very knowledgable about the science of such things).

I guess we have to agree to disagree. I will continue to support HE, PA
turrets, lower-tech repulsors, KKMs (although I do like the idea of lower
power chemical det lasers - I could be swayed to this as an alternative) and
such in my campaign - and I'm gonna try to hammer out some ways of dealing
with these items with the new rules. I respect all of your views, and can
not find any real fault with your arguments - its just you (my esteemed
opponents in these debates) place more stock on science than canon, while I
place more on canon than stock. To each his/her own :)

Andrew Akins

------------------------------

Date: 27 Jan 1998 14:44 EST
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: So quiet, so rational

Wow.

Can you hear that?

Me neither.  This list has become more like a thinktank
and less like a barroom brawl lately.  What happened?

Shouldn't someone bring up jump torpedoes, or near-c
rocks, or space piracy, or system economics or something?

It's way too quiet here.  I can hear myself think.

Seriously, I like it this way, and want to thank everyone
for making this group professional of late.  I hope it
stays relatively calm for awhile.

Thanks!

Rob

P.S.  I've actually added some cross references to the
Traveller Alexandria Project, and am e-mailing an update
to Jens (http://www.spacejens.ml.org/traveller/travindex), for
what it's worth.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 19:13:06 -0000
From: Alex Ferrie <daishan@malkier.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RE: WHAT!?

	I could be wrong but I do get the impression that you are being somewhat 
insulting here. As it happens I use mathematics on a daily basis for my work, 
and so have a profound respect for the minds who have formed the mathematical 
paradigms we use today. However, it does not alter the fact that mathematics is 
a TOOL which we use to model reality, and as with any tool or model, may be 
flawed. For the moment, our mathematics appears to correctly predict the 
behaviour of the universe, but this does not mean that it will always do so. 
Remember - maths is a concept, not a physical fact.


On 27 January 1998 01:43, Clark Crawford [SMTP:crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU] wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Alex Ferrie wrote:
>
> > 	As regards Pi, it's only maths. We chop and change maths to suit our
> > 	perceived
> > reality. If someone at some point in the past said that Pi = 3, perhaps he
> > was
> > right and we are wrong<g>.
>
> And all of the technology suddenly stops working because baseless words
> are more powerful than physical facts.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:06:33 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

> > Have you ever seen a replicar?  They are cars that are built to the
exact
> > same standards as the original.  I've seen designs from the 20's and
30's
> > that are built just like they were in the 20's and 30's.  Sometimes
they use
> > better materials because they are stronger or less expensive, but my
point
> > is that just because you could more easily fix a TL-5 tractor, that
doesn't
> > mean you would start your colony at TL-5.  You'd start it where the
mother
> > world was and use the accumulated knowledge to build the low tech items
that
> > would serve you better.
> But you can't start at the motherworld level without the motherworld
> infrastructure. Yoou're looking at a world that has had several thousand
> years of cumulative technological advancement. Those farmers aren't going
> to complain too much if the TL5 ambulance is working, and the TL-12 one
> isn't and the nearest replacement parts are 15 LY away by slow boat. Or
> the replacement parts for the factory...or the relacement parts for the
> factory-building stuff.... 

I am not talking about bang, you are at TL-Whatever, but say home world is
TL-10, then you should start out at TL-5, +1 TL every 1 to 10 years until
you are at TL-10.  There are of course many factors that will help & hinder
this.  Like how much support do you get from the homeworld, is the colony
on a "bad" world for the colonists, etc.

> They may well retain the knowledge for moving to TL-12, and the rise will
> be quite rapid, if the world has the resources to accomplish this, but
> when you're starting from scratch, you can't depend on the infrastructure
> because it isn't there. The colony cannot depend on everything always
> working..stuff breaks unexpectedly, a new world always has
> surprises...what happens if your automated tractor factory get's destroyed
> by an earthquake? On earth, you simply get the parts from another factory
> somewhere else.  Unless you're speaking of transplanting entire _worlds_
> that's not going to be feasable for your putative colony.

Not really, what I am talking about is maybe starting a small city with
surrounding villages & farmalnd type deal & then spreading out.

> So what is a TL-5 level tractor built by a TL-12 culture??

A very well made TL-5 tractor?

> Bruce Johnson
> University of Arizona
> College of Pharmacy
> Information Technology Group

Btw, is there anyone else from Arizona other than me & Bruce?  If so could
you e-mail me in private so that I can either join a gaming group, you can
join the one I'm in now, or we can start a new one.  Bruce, also could you
email me in private regarding the above.

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 98 20:31 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

In-Reply-To: <534f9060.34cd7b9b@aol.com>

CardSharks,

> << 
>  I think he was meaning the added complication, and I agree. I haven't tried
> it 
>  yet, though, so maybe it works better than I think.
>   >> 
> Once you get used to it, it adds an element of unpredictability AND allows
> that "he just nicked me" situation.

Since, on average, it has no effect, how about having it as an optional rule, 
for people who don't mind the added complexity?
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 02:59 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Return of Liaison Skill?

Moin DustyLV769,

	first of the heck, what has this to do with Liaison.

> Strength does play into the aiming of a rifle, IMO.  You have to be able to
> hold a weapon VERY steady to hit a target, esp as the range increases.  This
> can get difficult for some people (me, personally, trying to hold a 12.5# M-1
> Garand on a target much beyond 300 yards would be ludicrous.)

	Well I use the following rule in my campain. Low recoil weapons like
	lasers, nadlers aso can use the dex as can weapons on bipods, some
	tripod weapons are even on Int or Edu. Firing a weapon can therefore
	depend on dex or on strength. A character who has a better strength
	than dex should carry heavy weapons, if he need, while an agile
	should prefer finer weapons.

	I allways have both skill and characteristic in mind for a UTP.
	And fusion gun/strength is for a hit from the hip, while fusion
	gun/dex from a bipod, and fusion gun/edu is for cleaning and
	maintenance, and last not least together with endurance for carring 
	the beast more than 1 mile. So depending on the UTP the same skill
	can be based on a variety of characteristics - all of them you'll
	learn in basic training.

	Back to Liaison: Impressing natives with a fusion gun.

	- based on int : the character fires at heavy wall chrashing 20
	  feet in front of the natives.
	- based on cha : the character holds his gun in an impressing
	  position, e.g. at Cleons birthday parade
	- based on soc : the characters hires a dozend personal securities
	  armed with fusion guns :-)

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:20:17 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...

>On 01/26/98 at 11:13 AM,  "Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net> said:
>>For example, I have a race that prefers to fight close and dirty - so
>>their ships are plasma/fusion heavy.  While changing these to lasers may
>>not seem like a big deal, it looses some of that "flavor"

It doesn't have to.  Arm them with what folks over on the 'tech list have
been calling "Laser Carronades" - that is, non-grav-focus lasers.  At 
reasonable TLs, these can still fire out to useful ranges, but not as long
as the grav-focus lasers.  On the flipside, the "Laser Carronades" have a 
higher efficency (more of the input energy goes into the target) than 
equivalent grav-focussed lasers.

Eris Reddoch <eris@pen.net> wrote:
>The difference in effective ranges between plasma/fusion (HE weapons) and 
>the laser/paws (beam weapons) are just TOO big.

That's the problem that we had.  We tried looking for various ways around
it, but couldn't find anything that was plausible.  We considered rating
some plasma/fusion weapons at sub-hex ranges for space combat, but it
really wasn't useful.

>I haven't tried this, but are we sure that det-lasers *have* to be nuclear?
>Might it be possible to build single shot chemically pumped det-lasers,
>maybe a combination of EPG's and big laser cartridges?

Maybe, though it's aparrently not easy.  The rules you'd need appear to
all be there (or at least enough to see if it's feasable).

>Hear! Hear! I argued for alternative tech to be included in FFS2 

Marc specifically requested that we not do that, AND, given the time
constraints for FF&S2, it would have detracted from the main work as well.

I was pushing for liftwood and ether propellor rules, myself ...  ;-)



wildstar@qrc.com
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It's Science Fiction, if, presuming technical competence on the part of
 the writer, he genuinely believes it could happen." --- John W. Campbell

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 22:29:59
From: Paolo Marino <marino@inrete.it>
Subject: Religious Career (DRAFT)

Religious Careers in Traveller
- ------------------------------

Even in an high-tech setting like the one proposed by the Traveller gme,
religion will probably have a certain degree of influence on people choices
and general outlook on life. Here I propose my ideas for a "cleric" career
in Traveller and some guidelines for detailing and introducing new
religions, cults and similar organizations.

The Clerical career is presented in a format compatible with the current
edition of Traveller (T4), and based on some similar work which originally
appeared on the Dragon magazine (see bibliography for details).

                            Cleric

Clerics are members of some religious group or organization. More
specifically, they have decided not only to follow the precepts of the
group, but to become both agents for their faith and a living example of
the virtues and standards required by their religion.
Routine Tasks: Spreading the faith, comforting and helping their fellow
believers, administering the rites in accordance with the canon, guiding
and counselling the community they live in.

Enlistement:  6- (Int 9+: +1, Edu 8+: +2)
Survival:    10- (Int 9+: +2)
Promotion     5- (Soc 8+: +1)
Position:     n/a
Reenlistement 9- 

1.Physical            4.Social
 1.+1 STR              1.Leadership
 2.+1 END              2.Diplomacy
 3.+1 DEX              3.Philosophy
 4.Ground Craft        4._Charisma_
 5.Intimidation        5.Psychology
 6.+1 END              6.Law
 
2.Mental              5.Career
 1.Language            1.Instruction
 2.Art                 2.Admin
 3.Writing             3._Cluster_
 4.Perception          4._Cluster_
 5.Administration      5._Academic_
 6.Instruction         6._Bureacracy_

3.Educational         6.Background
 1._Sciences_          1.Streetwise
 2._Cluster_           2.Fast Talk
 3.History             3.Language
 4.Medical             4._Technical_
 5._Research_          5.First Aid
 6.Computer            6.Vacc Suit

Benefits: (DM:+1 for Rank 5+)

   Material    Cash

1  Low Psg.    1000
2  Low Psg.    1000
3  Middle Ps.  5000
4  +1 Soc.     5000
5  +1 Edu     10000
6  High Ps.   10000
7  TAS        10000


Rank & Service Skills:
For each term served gain Religion-1 (see below for details).
Rank 2,4,6: +1 _cluster_ skill.

Notes:
_Survival rolls_ are quite easy. This is based on the assumption that most
religions will be already well-integrated in the social scene, and that no
violent opposition exists against the religion chosen by your character.
See the "Detailing Religions" part for more on this.
_Reenlistement and mustering out_ are different from the ones for the other
careers. You usually don't "muster out" from a religion, and generally you
are not entitled to retirement pay or pensions when you leave it.
The player and the referee should decide what happens when a PC fails the
reenlistment roll. He may have left the clergy for personal reasons (for
example, he breaks a vow, like celibacy or pacifism). If this happens, he
will deduct 1d3 points from his Social Status, and will not be able to use
his rank or any other benefit associated to membership in the clergy
[unless he somehow fakes his credentials]. Optionally "mustering out" my be
considered like a sort of "extended sabbatical" from the church, and the
character will remain a full member of the clergy. He must still obey to
any order from his church and respect the rites, vows and any other
restriction required by his faith.
_Religion Skill_. It represents the knowledge of rites, laws, traditions,
canon and doctrines of the particular religion you belong to. It may be
used as a positive reaction modifier when dealing with members of the same
faith [or a negative one when confronting enemies of your faith]. Edu is
usually the base for this skill, but sometimes Int may be used to deal with
unfamiliar situations like debating your beliefs with members of other
sects, or performing rites in emergency situations.
_Ranks_. Other have proposed names taken mainly from the Catholic
tradition. Even if many messages were excellent (In particular Pat
Connaughton <pconn@simm.net> posted a very torough treatment of ranks in
the Catholic church). What follows by no means is to be considered as a
I think that basing the rank table on an existing religion is not a very
good idea. For example, the "Exorcist" rank has sense only for a church
which professes the existence of evil spirits or demons. "Father" or
"Brother" make no sense for matriarchal orders and so on.

Even considering so, I urge you to contact the author to
You should work out the name and
number of ranks by carefully considering two different points. The first
is how widespread the religion is. If you religion is limited to a
couple of systems, its organizative structure will be different from an
interstellar church which covers half the Empire.
The other point is the main focus of the religion. If its main concern
is excellence in some worldy pursue (as a proof of divine favour) its rank
will
probably reflect this (Initiate, Master, Grand Master, Teacher and so
on), while a religion which portrays itself like a large family will
use terms which recall a similar structure (new-born, sister, mother,
life-bringer).

Some guidelines on religions.
The "Priest" career I described here is based on the assumption that the
church has existed long enough to obtain some kind of recognition inside
the Imperium. In order to do so, it must be based on fairly benign
concepts: a cult who routinely sacrifices non-members in gruesome rituals
would be surely outlawed and stomped out by the Imperial government. Given
this, you may be free to create as many religions and cults you like, and
could even encourage players to submit their own. Religions should have
some fundamental precept as its major focus, and will tend to encourage its
clergy to gain skills in related areas. When designing a religion, you
should detail a cluster of skills which are related to the religion main
concept. Whenever you get a _cluster_ result during character generation
you must chose a specific skill among these skills, either by dice roll or
player's choice. As you can see, this career does not give combat skills.
You may add  weapon skills in the cluster, (brawling, melee, blade and
fencing are the best choices, and could represent the martial arts
traditionally thaught in some sects). If for some reason you decide to
allow extremely war-oriented religions, I'd suggest to use one of the
existing military careers (for example the Army) for the character
generation, and then add the Religion skill at the end of the process.

Describing a Religion
We dont' really need an URP, but a brief outline of a religion will prove
useful. You may follow this simple outline:

_Name_: The name of the religious movement.
_Main Focus_: A concise listing of the main ideas and themes of this
belief system.
_Brief History_: Describes how long it existed, and a rough extimate of
the number of followers.
_Reason for Continued existence_: A couple of sentences on why the
religion remains popular.
_Non-humans status_: Covers the general outlook towards non humans or,
in some cases, towards other human races (i.e. Solomani, Zhodani, etc.)
_Wovs_: Restrictions and codes to which followers must adhere. They
_Allies/Enemies_: Groups which would help or hinder a known member of
this religion.
_Skill Cluster_: [see before]
_Rank Names_:(Optional) Names of the ranks.

A couple of examples from the original article by Michael Brown (see
bibliography).


_Name_: The Vekkur.
_Main Focus_: Preserve life and health in all sentient beings.
_Brief History_: The religion takes its name from the vekkur, a mythical
Vlandian creature which spittle (allegedly) cured any disease. Members of
the sect believe that a supreme being exists, and that any sentient being
in the universe has the right to life and well-being. Quite widespread in
the core subsectors, but less frequent in the frontier regions of the
empire.
_Non-humans status_: Anyone can join this religion.
_Reason for Continued existence_: Very popular among doctors. It often
sponsors wide-range health programs on low TL planets. The religion is
quite tolerant of other beliefs, a follower can often be a member of
another cult, provided that this does not clash with the main focus of
Vekkur doctrine.
_Wovs_: Members are true pacifists, and will not take a life under any
circumstance. They always wear some sort of white garment.
_Allies/Enemies_: No known enemy, but the Army and the Navy sometimes show
some suspicion against members of this group and they are closely monitored
during wars. Occasionally, members of the _PanGalactic Friends of Life_
have protested against the order for not caring enough for non-sentient
lifeforms. Sporadic (but recurring) tensions between the church and
pharmaceutical corporations have been recorded in the past.
_Skill Cluster_: Biology, Chemistry, First Aid, Medical, Psychology.

_Religion Name_: Children Transcendant
_Main Focus_: Upholding the use of Psionic
_Brief History_: Many older religions described saints and avatars as being
capable of impossible feats. This common tradition is the proof that
Psionic talent is a step towards an higher plane of existence. Depending on
the historical period, this religion may be officially outlawed in the
Imperium, and members could be forced to hide.
_Non-humans status_: Usually good. Zhodani are especially populars.
_Reason for Continued existence_: Members are required to test out and try
to achieve maximum PSI potential as early as possible. Testing and training
are free, and are administered during the first and subsequent terms (i.e.,
even if the first test fails, the character can take another test later,
with the usual DMs. Note that even non-PSI can still be part of the
clergy).
_Vows_: Strong ethical rules regulates use of the psi-powers. Members
should avoid using them to gain an unfair advantage on "normals".
_Skill Cluster_: Chemistry, Psionicology, Psi-Level, Perception, Medical,
Physics
_Allies/Enemies_: Depending on the historical period, the Imperium may be
considered an enemy: in these cases you should apply a -1 DM on the Injury
roll. Psionical Institutes are usually on very good terms with members of
the church. The same usually holds for Zhodani agents.

Bibliography
- ------------
The Stellar Diocese - The clergy in the TRAVELLER universe 
by Michael Brown, Dragon #101 [The original article]
Children of Earth
by Harold Hale, Traveller's Chronicles #10 & #11   [Complete treatment
of a new Earth-based religion in TNE]
Cosmic Crusades
by Pierre Savoie, Shadis #34 [how-to article on creating religions in
SF settings]




__  Paolo Marino  __          |Inrete Games Page: www.inrete.it/games/gms.html
 mc4799@mclink.it (Preferred) | marino@inrete.it (Best for MIME/BinHex)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #50
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Traveller-digest      Tuesday, January 27 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 051



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re:So quiet, so rational
large colony ships
Missiles and Maneuver Drives [longish]
AUCTION: TRAVELLER CT\MT\TNE\T4 materials update #2
Re: missiles, low berths, and other canon...
Low Tech Colony Ship Design
Re: Return of Liaison Skill?
Re: WHAT!?
RE: WHAT!? (off-topic)
Re: Initial colonization considerations
Re: Death and Dying
Re: large colony ships
Re: Low Tech Colony Ship Design
Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Plasma canNons
Re: WHAT!?
Re: Them, They and Me. : )
Re: dates in UWPs?
Re: missiles, low berths, and other canon...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:57:41 EST
From: TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
Subject: Re:So quiet, so rational

Well... I'd prefer to talk about Virus or San*klaass if u want, rather than
near c rocks . : )  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:33:07 -0500
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: large colony ships

Mike Peters types:
>This also leads to some neat variations. In one scenario I can envision the
>"First Born" or even the original crew, setting them selves up as dictators,
>dispite being chosen phycologically to avoid this. It could even lead to a
>relegion with the "Return of the Teachers" at it's heart.

  For ideas, read "Lord of Light" by Roger Zelanzy.


- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/  Opinions Mine!
"Prairie dogging" - In companies where everyone has a cubicle, something 
happens and everyone pops up to look. 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:03:28 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Missiles and Maneuver Drives [longish]

Mon, 26 Jan 98 21:47:04 -0600, eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
> In CT maneuver drives *did* use mass, their exhaust was dangerous, however
> they were too efficient to be straight fusion drives.

Actually, having exhaust in the direction of thrust doesn't
mean they necessarily use mass.  Since their physics was
never identified, I can't be known if the exhaust was
to expell mass for the effect or was simply a byproduct
of the process.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:35:29 -0500
From: Peter Miller <pmiller@linkeasy.net>
Subject: AUCTION: TRAVELLER CT\MT\TNE\T4 materials update #2

Hi,

I've deciced to auction off my Traveller collection of materials ranging
from Classic to 4th Edition.  Some of the items below are in good shape,
and are good finds.

First, the rules:
1)  Please bid only with the intention of buying
2)  All bids in United States currency (even though I'm in Canada!)
3)  Buyer pays shipping from oakville, Ontario, Canada
4)  I reserve the right to remove items or reject bids without reason
5)  Only bids received at pmiller@linkeasy.net or ICQ#5294589 witll be
    processed and accepted.
6)  The auction begins January 26th 1998, 1am, and ends 2/9/98 midnight
7)  I reserve the right to increase or decrease the auction length
8)  All bidders are automatically placd on the mailing list.  E-mail me
    to be removed.

Second, the conditions guide (from Titan Games)
M=Mint       - We took it out of the shrinkwrap (for some reason)
and                  put it up for sale; looks like it's right from the
               printer's
NM=Near Mint - Corners or Binding have minimal or no wear
VF=Very Fine - Corners, Binding have small wear, 
               Cover may be slightly scuffed
F=Fine       - Corners, Binding, or Cover have wear or small creases
G=Good       - Corners, Binding, or Cover more wear, large creases or 
               scuffing
Fa=Fair      - Corners, Binding, or Cover very worn, many creases and
               much scuffing
P=Poor       - Corners, Binding, or Cover excessively worn, possible 
               tears in cover

Third, the items:  (latest bidder's alias and bid underneath) - MIN BID

MegaTraveller Boxed Set (Imperial Encyclopedia, Referee's Manual,
Player's Manual, Spinward Marches poster map) MT
        - BOX is FAIR, CONTENTS are VERY FINE - MIN BID $10

Traveller Boxed Set, digest sized (Books 1-3) CT
        - BOX is GOOD, CONTENTS are VERY FINE - rstanek $50

Book 0: An Introduction to Traveller (CT)
        - VERY FINE - J-man $3

Book 4: Mercenary (CT)
        - FINE - MIN BID $5

Supplement 3: The Spinward Marches (CT)
        - FAIR - Magnus $3

Adventure 9:  Nomad's of the World-Ocean (CT) 
        - VERY FINE - gsvenson  $5

Double Adventuee 3: Death Station\Argon Gambit (CT) 
        - VERY FINE - gahunter $8

Double Adventure (FASA): The Stazhlekh Report\The Harrensa Project (CT)
        - FINE - gsvenson $10

Marc Miller's Traveller Rulebook (T4)
        - GOOD - Magnus $10

Pocket Empires (T4)
        - FINE\VERY FINE - jenry023 $9

Emperor's Arsenal (T4)
        - MINT - J-man $6

Challenge Isuses #57
        - FINE - gsvenson $2

Challenge Issue #63
	- FINE - gsvenson $2

Challenge Issue #70 
        - FAIR - gsvenson $2

Megatrveller 101 Vehicles (MT)
        - FINE - igor $5

Megatraveller's Referee's Gaming Kit (MT) 
        - VERY FINE - igor $15

Traveler: The New Era  Rulebook (TNE) - December 1993
        - MINT - gvolz $10

If you wish to put in a bid below the minimum bids I MAY be willing to
accept it.  E-mail it to pmiller@linkeasy.net

All bids to pmiller@linkeasy.net> 

- -- 
_________________________________Peter J. Miller
pmiller@linkeasy.net                ICQ #5294589
  ----> http://www.dragonfire.net/~pm/ <-----       
"When the first link in the chain is forged; the
first speech censored, the first thought 
forbidden, the first freedom denied; it chains
us all irrevocably." - Jeri Taylor

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:15:26 -0600
From: "Steven Bonneville" <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: missiles, low berths, and other canon...

Hans was writing about a safer alternative to cryogenic low berths;
using fast drug and fast drug antidote.  He wrote:

>                                                   However, even with
> the fast antidote you could get the price of a ticket down to Cr1,500
> or so, which is about what a Low Berth ought to cost if you work out
> a realistic price for it.

Let me expand on this.  A ship can carry a displacement ton of freight
and earn kCr 1 on that ton.  Setting aside the space costs nothing, no
maintenance cost is involved, and the ship can rent the space to itself
in order to carry speculative cargo that can earn many times that much.

On the other hand, you can fill that displacement ton with a low berth
that costs kCr 50 to buy, and a couple of hundred credits per trip to
operate.  A low passenger only pays kCr 1, so you'd be better off with
freight in the space.  There's two circumstances where low berths make
sense.  First, if you can get low passengers to fill the space but not
freight; better kCr 0.8 profit than nothing.  Second, if you *can* use 
a low berth for freight or speculative cargo -- hauling livestock, for 
instance.  There aren't any rules I know about covering that case, but
there are references to using "livestock low berths" equivalent to the
emergency low berth in both classic Traveller and TNE.

> Also note that Fast Passage is ideal for medium and long distance travel;
> you can carry a passenger for two or even three jumps on the same 30 day
> dose and thus practically the same overhead. If fast drug can be taken
> consecutively without debilitating effects, it should be the passage of
> choice for colony transports too. Now how is that for a canon-breaker?

In MT, something similar could be done with low berths: say you've got
a player on Deneb that needs to reach Vland, but you don't want to play
out the transit.  With DGP's portable low berths, you could carefully 
freeze them at Deneb, and ship them on the xboat route by Tukera liner
to Vland.  Low berth travel is less lethal in MT, but still hazardous
enough that most travelers who can afford it won't do this.  It might
be cool if low berth travel starts out very dangerous in Milieu Zero,
and becomes safer in later periods (perhaps remaining dangerous for a
long time on the fringes, where local medical resources are scarcer).

  -- Steve Bonneville

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:51:00 -0600
From: "Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: Low Tech Colony Ship Design

Heres another go at a low-tech colony ship:

Covenant class colony ship (TL-10)
Tons: 1,000,000std (total), 200,000std (mission, USL med cylinder)
Mass: 4,133,549tons loaded, 2,744,693tons unloaded (fuel spheres discharged)

Controls: 15 computers (CM:.5, CP:2.0). High Automation.
Communications: 1x1000AU radio (10 backups), 1x1000AU laser (10 backups)
Sensors: 1xrating 13.5 Passive scanner & tracker (10 backups). 1xrating 11.5
active EMS (10 backups)

Performance: 1.7G loaded, Bussard interstellar ram jet.
Power: 1,500MW fusion. No internal fuel.
Defences: 1000AV rated Electrostatic armor (discharges once every 3
seconds).
Accomodations: 1000 low berths, 40 staterooms, storage for 20 million frozen
embryos (animal and human).
Life support: Hydroponic gardens.
Small Craft:
    8x100ton landers in docking rings.
    8x5000ton pre-fabricated startup colonies in docking rings.
Cargo: 10000std
Features:
    8xElectronic Shops
    8xVehicle Shops
    8xLaboratories
    8xSickbays
Armor: 100
Structure: 59

The ship is a 200,000std cylinder surrounded by 8x100,000std spherical fuel
tanks. The tanks are discarded in sets of 2 as they are depleted, to
increase the acceleration. I'm not sure how to calculate the total G-hours
and such. Without dropping the tanks, the ship can sustain 1.7G for just
over 35 hours. Each tank masses 173,607tons...

The assumption is that this is enough speed to engage the ramscoop. I'm not
sure if thats true. But assuming it is, then the ship will constantly
accelerate until its at its maximum speed (which is???). As far as slowing
down is concerned....well, it'll have to use its magscoop as a "solar-brake"
and probibly pull some clever orbital mechanics to put it in orbit around
the target star...

Bussards are the way to go - give them a fusion plant and they can scoop
their power plant fuel as well (I handwaved this, but it seemed reasonable).

The electrostatic armor represents a particle shield - designed to vaporize
particles in the path of the ship. I don't know if this is reasonable or
not...it seemed like a good idea :)

The ship carries 1000 colonists, each with 10 tons cargo. 8 100ton landers
are provided, as well as 8 1000ton pre-fab colonies - I envision these being
large drop palettes that already have quarters, manufacturing plants,
etc...to "jump-start" the colony. The colonist are supplemented by frozen
embryos, which would be gradually added to the population over several
(maybe hundreds) of generations, to broaden the gene pool. Colonists would
have to raise at least one embryo child (planted in the woman) for each
natural child (natural meaning concieved naturally) born. Single women would
probibly be encouraged to have an embryonic child at the appropriate time,
to make sure that the gene pool was being added to.

The craft has a bank of hydroponic gardens to support life should the crew
need to wake up at any time. upto 40 waking crewmember can be supported at
one time.

Comments?

Andrew Akins

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:07:57 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@m9.sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Return of Liaison Skill?

 

> 	lasers, nadlers aso can use the dex as can weapons on bipods, some
            ^^^^^^   
Hmm.. a rifle that fires a projectile to the corprate office of the 
party in question, and lodges complaints that they release to much 
carbon monxide?

:)
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com           http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

Thought for the day:
    A penny saved is ridiculous.

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:09:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: WHAT!?

On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Richard A. Flores wrote:

> Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU> wrote:
> 
> >On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Alex Ferrie wrote:
> >
> >> As regards Pi, it's only maths. We chop and change maths to suit our
> perceived
> >> reality. If someone at some point in the past said that Pi = 3, perhaps
> he was
> >> right and we are wrong<g>.
> >
> >And all of the technology suddenly stops working because baseless words
> >are more powerful than physical facts.
> >
> You missed the whole point.  It's not the words, but the reality that
> underlies the words.  If reality shifts, then everything shifts.  If Pi gets
> larger, then the circles get larger (area-wise) too.  Nothing stops, it just
> changes and continues.

So if reality shifts, how many fingers will I have?  How does this relate
to the notion of counting?  Without counting, we can't do very much in the
way of symbolic computation.  Assuming that symbolic computation is still
possible after reality shifts, don't we need a new basis for counting?


Clark

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:31:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: RE: WHAT!? (off-topic)

On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Alex Ferrie wrote:

> 	I could be wrong but I do get the impression that you are being somewhat 
> insulting here. As it happens I use mathematics on a daily basis for my work, 
> and so have a profound respect for the minds who have formed the mathematical 
> paradigms we use today. However, it does not alter the fact that mathematics is 
> a TOOL which we use to model reality, and as with any tool or model, may be 
> flawed. For the moment, our mathematics appears to correctly predict the 
> behaviour of the universe, but this does not mean that it will always do so. 
> Remember - maths is a concept, not a physical fact.

Yes, and if I was insulting you I apologize for my affrontery.  At any
rate, I use mathematics every day as well.  If that fact does not qualify
me to criticize your position, the same description as applied to you may
not qualify you to take that position in the first place, until more
information about what exactly it is we do at work becomes available.  (I
am only a graduate student in CS -- there is plenty about higher theory
that I don't know.) 

> On 27 January 1998 01:43, Clark Crawford [SMTP:crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU] wrote:
> > On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Alex Ferrie wrote:
> >
> > > 	As regards Pi, it's only maths. We chop and change maths to suit our
> > > 	perceived
> > > reality. If someone at some point in the past said that Pi = 3, perhaps he
> > > was
> > > right and we are wrong<g>.
> >
> > And all of the technology suddenly stops working because baseless words
> > are more powerful than physical facts.

A kinder, gentler way to say this is that this set of perceptions has
taken thousands of years to develop, and brought countless benefits to our
civilization.  The notion of legislating pi to 3.0 implies legislative
interference in an area of primarily technical interest, which can damage
the technocracy.  IMHO, any argument which strengthens the position of
such legislation in common parlance should be decried quickly and loudly
(in common language).

The state was Louisiana.  IIRC, the bill stated something along the lines
that the actual value of pi was too hard to understand.  In reality, it
was probably a procedural trick, like the flower garden vote that comes up
every year in the Texas legislature (although we *do* occasionally find
some real morons in our legislatures).  Somebody else can probably relate
more concrete facts about the case. 

We should mark all components of this thread as off-topic -- the closest
it comes to being Traveller-related is the parlimentary politics that it
relates to.

Just my $0.02.


Clark

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:17:11 -0800
From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <schoon@aimnet.com>
Subject: Re: Initial colonization considerations

Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> wrote:

>On a related note, I tried working out the growth rate of a colony with
>people ranging from 20 to 29 years, no children or older people (I know
>someone mentioned something about a few children of every age group being
>necessary for some social reason, but I'm ignorant of these matters and
>have ignored it (More information on this subject would be appreciated)).

I agree that it's important to have an broaded age range, even if it's
0-30. It makes for a better socially adjusted group.

>I assumed that every woman would bear, on the average, one child (that
>would survive into adulthood) every 5 years and that they would bear
>children from the ages of 20 to 49.

Yow ! 6 kids per female ! Have you ever tried convincing a woman to go
through childbirth 6 times, no matter how long between births. Also, 49 is
pretty old to be having children. I'd say a more reasonable range might be
20-36 at one child per 4 years, but even that might be pushing it.

>also I assumed no significant number
>of accidental deaths among women of child-bearing age (All assumptions
>open to debate, I know).

Even if there are no accidental deaths, there are bound to be some natural
ones (cancer, disease, childbirth, stroke, etc.) I'm afraid that I don't
have any statistics to generate numbers.


Schoon

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:35:58 -0800
From: "Brian A. Howard" <bruadh@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Death and Dying

At 11:30 PM 1/26/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>
>Also in ACQ.  Without treatment, wounds worsen overtime.  Superficial
>wounds (no characteristics lowered to zero) do not degrade beyond lowering
>a single stat to 0.
>
>--
O.k. so how or where can I find a copy of your ACQ rules?

BTW. I'm glad to see more fit these days.

Sincerely,

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 19:11:21 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: large colony ships

I have along with a number of other, such as Niven's "A Gift From Earth",
which is an excellent reference to sub-light colonization. Thanks for the
tip though!

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Tuesday, January 27, 1998 5:10 PM
Subject: large colony ships


.
>
>  For ideas, read "Lord of Light" by Roger Zelanzy.
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>eclipse@ultranet.com http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/  Opinions Mine!
>"Prairie dogging" - In companies where everyone has a cubicle, something
>happens and everyone pops up to look.
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 19:21:45 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Low Tech Colony Ship Design

The only comment Andrew is, if you need the human females to act a host
mothers for your frozen embryos... who or what performs the same service for
your livestock (mentioned in the snipped ship design). I think that an
artificial womb of some type would be needed. This is not unreasonable
technology for the tech level of your ship.

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Akins <igor@ames.net>
To: TML <Traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Tuesday, January 27, 1998 6:00 PM
Subject: Low Tech Colony Ship Design


<Snip of a good design>
>The ship carries 1000 colonists, each with 10 tons cargo. 8 100ton landers
>are provided, as well as 8 1000ton pre-fab colonies - I envision these
being
>large drop palettes that already have quarters, manufacturing plants,
>etc...to "jump-start" the colony. The colonist are supplemented by frozen
>embryos, which would be gradually added to the population over several
>(maybe hundreds) of generations, to broaden the gene pool. Colonists would
>have to raise at least one embryo child (planted in the woman) for each
>natural child (natural meaning concieved naturally) born. Single women
would
>probibly be encouraged to have an embryonic child at the appropriate time,
>to make sure that the gene pool was being added to.


>Comments?
>
>Andrew Akins
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 18:47:41 -0600
From: "markn@wavefront.com" <markn@wavefront.com>
Subject: Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator

> << >3) Be Win 95 compatible.
>
>  I'd say DOS compatible, myself. Windows can run DOS, Mac can run DOS, OS/2
>  can run DOS, Amiga can run DOS, Linix can run DOS, and DOS can run DOS.
>  Writing in DOS still gives you maximum coverage.
>   >>

> DOS compatible and Win95 compatible are not the same thing. Making it DOS
> compatible just cripples it. Make it Win95 compatible.,

I have to take issue with this.  First, micro$oft did make great 
efforts to have quite a bit of 'compatiblity' for DOS in win95 
(although I'm sure the old adage about DOS not shipping until <insert 
application> won't run, still holds true).  And the original point 
about everything emulating a DOS environment is valid.

Mark

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 98 02:02 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

Moin Bruce Johnson,

> So what is a TL-5 level tractor built by a TL-12 culture??

	Take a look on the Djepper Motorbike or the Enfield. The first one
	is a WWII german BMW with sidecar, the second a WWII BSA without.
	Or look at the Fortschritt Tractor, it a TL:6 heavy tractor extremly
	robust, and most important it shares the engine with Fortschritt
	"flail tractor", and Robur onmibuses and trucks.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 98 02:27 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator

Moin CardSharks,

> DOS compatible and Win95 compatible are not the same thing. Making it DOS
> compatible just cripples it. Make it Win95 compatible.,

	they broke my leg,
	and I have to say "thank you",
	because the offered me crutches

	well better make it internet compatible, produce a gif by a perl
	script, you can call from a webserver.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 18:08:22 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU> wrote:
>> ...just because you could more easily fix a TL-5 tractor, that doesn't
>> mean you would start your colony at TL-5.  You'd start it where the
mother
>> world was and use the accumulated knowledge to build the low tech items
that
>> would serve you better.
>
>But you can't start at the motherworld level without the motherworld
>infrastructure. ...

Of course you're right, I wasn't thinking of it like that,  In the original
"Low Tech Colony Ship" post, the author (Andrew Atkins, IIRC) spoke of
sending 4,000 t of equipment.  Which even at TL 9 could represent 200 small
factories.  But then would also have to have heavy construction equipment,
ground movers, etc.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 19:21:19 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Plasma canNons

For those of you who want plasma guns in T4, I found them (well, a few of
them) in CSC p 59.  They only have a range of 10 km, but if they hit you,
look out!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 19:10:29 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: WHAT!?

Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu> wrote:
a very reasonable reply to my explanation of "Reality Shift."  Unlike some
people, he didn't yell at me.  He took the time to consider my statements
and replied with logic and evidence that could easily persuade me that he is
correct (if I didn't like my own theory so much! (-;  )

I would also like to commend him on his answer to Andrew Akins.  When I got
through reading it, I wanted to say thank you for your civility.  So, Thank
you Scott.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 19:32:41 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Them, They and Me. : )

TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com> wrote:


<My snide (and somewhat unkind) comments snipped for the better of this
thread along with Gary's mea culpa>

>i wasn't belittling his work!  Mucho apologies all around if it appeared
that
>way.  Dogpile on me day!  I sentence myself to 1000 lashes.  Life in the
>Traveller dungeons...er... brig.
>
><big snip>
>
>Gary

I think 1000 lashes is a bit excessive (20 will do).  ;-)

Did you ever have one of those days when the cords only jangled.  I wondered
if there was a full mood that day, but that was back on the 14th.  We all
make mistakes, I guess I can share some of the blame on this one.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 19:37:01 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: dates in UWPs?

TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>


>How about putting the date in the UWP or in PBG or somewhere on there... I'm
>envisioning someone looking over some stellar data (hmm...  that's First
>Survey data)  that's probably way out of date and messed up (and i'm not
>referring to the book!) ; )
>  maybe a # before... Some kind of notation?  The 3I based their system off've
>the Vilani's system (which the Rule of Man used too, no?) didn't they? They
>would be able to tell... "damn... this system hasn't been visited since the
>Long Night."
>   What i'm getting at is not necessarily in the UWP itself, but on a data
>line and in a small format that can fit.  Maybe in the trade codes ... Anyone
>got any ideas?

This sounds like an excellent idea.  You can usually tell where data came
from in real life.  Why not in the Imperial Archives.  Of course, there
should be some room for error.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 18:24:20 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: missiles, low berths, and other canon...

Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no> wrote:

[snipped the first part so as to be able to not quote more that 50% of the
original matterial]

>I think that the word canon is an abomnation that promtly should be put to
>death. ...

Some of us like canon.

>The four versions of Traveller ar in my view four different set of
>rules for a science fiction game with a common theme. The storyline is
>IMHO not dependent on the use of KKM, HEPlaR, Thruster Plates,
>Plasma/Fusion Guns, Laser. ...

In some cases your humble opion is wrong.  In some cases the storyline
cannot be carried without [insert canon element of your choice]!  Those guys
who like to fight in close are a good example.

>The few things that is needed to conserve the
>storyline (Jump being one) has been keept. If you want the CT flauver on
>your Traveller use CT, you want MT use MT, and so on.

So what if I can't find (or afford) CT, MT, ETC, any more?

Your post made me sore.  You didn't sound very humble.  You sounded snotty!
Like your opinion is the only one that matters.  Maybe I'm reading more than
what was there, but...  Maybe I should just shut up.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #51
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Wednesday, January 28 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 052



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Signature line
Re: Death and Dying
Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator
Re: Plasma canNons
Re: TNE elements in GURPS Trav?
Re: Religious Career (DRAFT)
A Question about Hits
Re: Death and Dying
Re: Enterprise and saucer seperation
Re: Strength /Dexterity in Gun Shooting
Re:So quiet, so rational
Re: Plasma canNons
Initial Colonization Considerations II
Re: Low Tech Colony Ship Design
Re: WHAT!?
Re: WHAT!? (on-topic)
Re: Plasma canNons
Re: Low Tech Colony Ship Design
Re: Initial colonization considerations

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:02:11 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>


>Richard A. Flores wrote:
>
>> >3) Players will need two additional dice that are marked differently
than
>> >   the others-- a green one for the "+D" and a red one for the "-D", for
>> >   example.
>>
>> You could just roll two dice and subtract seven (2D-7) and get the same
>> results.
>
>By jove, you are absolutely correct!

Now this is the kind of a reply I can get behind.  :-)

>The probability of results for +D-D and 2D6-7 are exactly the same.
>The only difference is in what numbers come up on each individual dice.
>
>so Marc's nd6+d6-d6 formula can be collapsed down to (n+2)d6-7 and...


[I snipped this part of Glenn's post so as to keep my quote to original
material count as low as possible, in it he expounded on other related
probability curve phenomina previously unconsidered by him that don't
really relate to the remainder of my reply.]

Um, you might want to go back and reread the reply that Marc made just
after (or was it just before) my post (to which you are replying).  I think
that there is a misunderstanding of what he intended.

In fact, why don't I repost that so you won't have to.

Someone wrote:

>>I still think it is a bit unnecessary, however.  I thought you (Marc) had
>>already decided on the current task dice format-- or is that changing
>>as well?

Marc Miller replied:

>+D-D is not about task resolution; it is about hit points. Once a
>task  (say, rifle fire) produces a hit, we determine damage... which
>is nD +D-D. That's not the same as the 2.5D for resolving a Difficult
>Task (for example).

[I snipped the rest of Glenn's message, because, I think the above
voids his arguments (which Marc already answered), and so I can
say that I quoted less than 50% of the original post (not counting
the reposted material above of course which brings my quoted
material to original count up to about 45% (including my
explanations of these snips.]

You know, I really ought to take out those long explanations of what I
snipped and why.

I really ought to.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:48:48 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Signature line

This in one that you might be able to relate to:

"Prairie dogging" - In companies where everyone has a cubicle, something
happens and everyone pops up to look.


How's tricks?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 18:52:55 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Death and Dying

At 03:35 PM 1/27/98 -0800, you wrote:

>O.k. so how or where can I find a copy of your ACQ rules?

At Close Quarters, a Combat System For Marc Miller's Traveller, is
(hopefully) going to published by BITS sometime this year.  James and I
will recieve the usual BITS payment (promisies of a night down the 'pub if
we ever get to England, and enough money to split an order of Chicken
McNuggest is neither of us is hungry.)

If anyone is seriously interested in playtesting, I need a few people who
will sit down and use the system and send me their feedback!  Contact me
privately for more details.
- --
*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
)      Douglas E. Berry              dberry@hooked.net     (
(          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/index.html        )
)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(
( A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any   )
) invention in human history--with the possible exceptions (
( of handguns and tequila.                                 )
)         Mitch Ratcliffe, Technology Review, April 1992   (
*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:47:11 -0500
From: Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com>
Subject: Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator

At 7:47 PM -0500 1/27/98, markn@wavefront.com wrote:
>> << >3) Be Win 95 compatible.
>>
>>  I'd say DOS compatible, myself. Windows can run DOS, Mac can run DOS, OS/2
>>  can run DOS, Amiga can run DOS, Linix can run DOS, and DOS can run DOS.
>>  Writing in DOS still gives you maximum coverage.
>>   >>
>
>> DOS compatible and Win95 compatible are not the same thing. Making it DOS
>> compatible just cripples it. Make it Win95 compatible.,
>
>I have to take issue with this.  First, micro$oft did make great
>efforts to have quite a bit of 'compatiblity' for DOS in win95
>(although I'm sure the old adage about DOS not shipping until <insert
>application> won't run, still holds true).  And the original point
>about everything emulating a DOS environment is valid.

Actually, it's not valid.  Windows 95 emulates DOS reasonably well,
but I've run into a large number of DOS applications which won't work
in Windows 95 and many Windows 95 machines are not setup to boot
into DOS with all resources.  Mac DOS emulators are most likely worse.
The ones I know of are also expensive.  Windows 98 supposedly gets
rid of DOS completely, so compatibility with a DOS shell will most
likely be even less reliable if it even exists...

If you want to be cross-platform, write it in something like Perl,
Python, Java, etc... that has interpreters available on every platform.
Of course, that makes a GUI more difficult.

Bolie IV

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 19:08:44 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@m9.sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Plasma canNons

Personal plasma and vehical plasma weapons never left the scene.

Only the big starship ones.

:)

> For those of you who want plasma guns in T4, I found them (well, a few of
> them) in CSC p 59.  They only have a range of 10 km, but if they hit you,
> look out!
> 
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com           http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

Thought for the day:
    The only thing that hurts more than paying income tax
    is not having to pay income tax.

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 22:51:00 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: Re: TNE elements in GURPS Trav?

> Hey Loren,
> This thought crossed my mind over the weekend while going over some of my
> TNE stuff.  While I know GURPS Traveller is going to be set in an alternative
> universe where the Assassination and Rebellion and the like never happened.
> That doesn't mean that elements of The New Era wouldn't be present or ignored.
> Certainly it would be a way to answer some questions that still linger for
> those of us TNE folks STILL waiting for a resolution to that game. <deletions>
>    Just some thoughts...

Thoughts that have occured to me as well. You'll have to wait and see...: )

Loren Wiseman
     GDW Emeritus, SJG Emigre

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 22:10:35 -0600
From: iresources@juno.com (Vic&Amy Canada)
Subject: Re: Religious Career (DRAFT)

Bravo,  

I snipped the text because it was long.  However, let me say bravo.   I
hadn't seen the article in the  Dragon you referenced.   In my setting I
use an imperium wide church not unlike the "Church of England" or the
"Church of Rome" during the Roman Empire.  

This lends itself to many interesting scenarios as many great men will do
things for their religion that they wouldn't do for any other reason.

Also, military characters may be created as chaplains.

Interesting post.

Vic
iresources@juno.com
http://www.iresources.net
http://www.iresources.net/ifc
http://www.evidence.net

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 98 22:51:50 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: A Question about Hits

On 01/27/98 at 01:15 AM,  CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com> said:

> I think he was meaning the added complication, and I agree. I haven't
>tried it  yet, though, so maybe it works better than I think.

>Once you get used to it, it adds an element of unpredictability AND allows
>that "he just nicked me" situation.

Marc, 

Like I said, I like the concept of the +/- 5, but I was a little concerned
about the added rolling.  I played around with it this evening and quickly
a question came to mind.

Have you decided to change the way damage is applied?  I *thought* damage
was going to be applied one die at a time to the 3 physcial
characteristics, 

Example

STR 9
DEX 6
END 8

You take 2d damage

You roll a 2 and a 4

And choose to subtract 2 from STR leaving STR 7

and 4 from DEX leaving DEX 2

End Example

With this new method you'd have had 2d+(+d-d), or roll 2 and 4 then +6-4.
The *total* would be 6+2 or 8, but how could you apply each of the dice to
a characteristic?  Which die does the +2 add to?  Or do you plan to take
the entire roll off one characteristic now?


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 98 22:33:37 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Death and Dying

On 01/26/98 at 11:51 PM,  "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> said:

>>Additionally, I think unattended wounds should continue to worsen turn by
>>turn.  Say every turn without treatment you lose 1 point from one of your
>>above 0 stats?  Now our hero can continue on after the fight without
>>medical attention, but only for so long before she wears down and falls
>>unconscious, and if she still doesn't get attention she will eventually
>>die.  Of course, if you do it this way you'll have to deal with the
>>"killing scratch."  ;->

>Let's not make that always, there's all kinds of accounts of people
>wounded in battle and passing out from blood loss coming back around,
>sometimes later in the day or even after a night on the "cold, cold
>ground" and managing to live with out treatment.

Oh, I agree there should be some limitations.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 98 23:47:25 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Enterprise and saucer seperation

On 01/26/98 at 11:32 PM,  "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net> said:

>>What is TOS?

>Star Trek:  The Original Series

Followed by

ST: TME     The Movie Era

ST: TAS     The Animated Series

ST: TNG     The Next Generation

ST: DS9     Deep Space 9

ST: TSS     The Stupid Series (Voyager)

and soon to be many, many more! ;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 01:10:18 EST
From: TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Strength /Dexterity in Gun Shooting

Harold wrote:

>   The solution?  Simplisticity seems to be preferred...
>
>   Solution 'A': Use Strength for autofire and shotguns, and Dexterity for
>everything else.

Hmm... this is my vote for the "simple" system.

>
>   Solution 'B': Add Strength and Dexterity together and divide by two to
>get the proper "firearm attribute".

Course, i used this for a couple TNE adventures (w/... ahem... AGL.... not
DEX)

>
>   Solution 'C': Use Dexterity but include weapon recoil as a modifier which
>can itself be reduced or eliminated by higher Strength.  (i.e. Wyatt has a
>Dexterity of '6' and a handgun skill of '4'.  The handgun he attempting to
>fire has a single shot recoil of '3', and he is attempting to fire four
>times.  This yields a recoil modifier of '12'.  However, Wyatt has a
>Strength of 'A', which reduces the recoil modifier to '2'.  Thus we get: (6
>+ 4) - 2 = 8  Wyatt must roll an '8' or less on the required number of dice
>to hit with each shot.

I like this for complicated.


<   Solution 'D' snipped >

>   Solution 'PC': Never allow player characters to have firearms, thus
>dodging the problem altogether.  Weapons become something that evil NPCs
>carry.

But what if i have evil PCs?  I do... these guys are sadistic.  They kill
people they get in bar fights w/.  One guy they nailed in the err... groin
area and they decided to do a Lorena Bobbit on him.  They walk into a bar and
throw a guy off a stool they want.  When he fights, they shoot him.  They
start riots.  U know that Hollywood shootout w/ the guys in armor?  They did
that long before that was on tv.  I decided to end it "quick" and pore on some
heat... a bunch of police end up dead. Swat comes out...They even shot down a
police grav vehicle.  I'm a law and order guy, too.  These guys have short
lives and usually go in a blaze of (in)glory.  One got captured and was
publically executed.  3 more KIA.  1 got away (Most wanted, need i say).
Enough about these sadistic bastards, i'm way off topic.  ; )  (they are
funny, but can be very annoying when they rip up my adventures)


>
>   Solution 'KIA': No matter who pulls the trigger or whatever they are
>
>trying to fire, the target is always hit and dies.  This solution also
>avoids the problem of keeping track of damage.

Hmm... 


nah. : )

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 01:10:19 EST
From: TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
Subject: Re:So quiet, so rational

Actually, i think i'd like to discuss the merrits of the various systems.
Me... i say bring back TNE.  : )  Truly the *Best* rules set...  lol

::::::::donning asbestos loin cloth:::::::::::::

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 98 00:29:25 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Plasma canNons

On 01/27/98 at 07:21 PM,  "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> said:

>For those of you who want plasma guns in T4, I found them (well, a few of
>them) in CSC p 59.  They only have a range of 10 km, but if they hit you,
>look out!

Richard, please don't think we're saying that plasma and fusion cannon
don't *work* in Traveller. None of us are really saying that. What we're
saying is that the velocity of the plasma and fusion pulse is too slow to
hit ships in open space at tens of thousand kilometers, and the ranges of
ship to ship combat have been pushed out to tens to hundreds of thousand
km.

If ship to ship combat ranges are dropped to a few thousand km then the
high energy weapons *would* effective. The original Mayday rules used a one
thousand mile scale, IIRC, and I know Book 2 did, at that scale HE weapons
worked effectively.  OTOH, TNE used a 30,000km scale, HE weapons don't work
effectively on that scale.

So, if you want CT style ship weapons, think about CT style combat ranges,
maybe 5 or 10 minute turns with 1 to 2 thousand km hexes. Of course, to get
those short ranges you are going to have to cut the ranges of spinal PAWS,
Meson cannon and lasers.

Alternatively, handwave a gravfocused plasma/fusion pulse. Because these
are massive plasma (rather than massless photons) the pulse is only good
for a few 30kkm hexes, but far enough to make them effective out to 3 or 4
hexes. Effective short range weapons.  

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 98 23:48:29 PST
From: "Marcus & Lurann Teter" <galileo@montana.campus.mci.net>
Subject: Initial Colonization Considerations II

List folk;

First, I am sorry this took so long to get out, but I have the tendancy to
get buzy every time I post on a subject.  The last time it happened it
nearly took 4 months to get back to the list.  In any case, here is some
more of the initial considerations.


More on number of colonists: 
I had made a mistake during the previous post, indicating that the reason
for going to 10000 over a 1000 was viabilty.  The actual reason was based
on survivability.  I am assuming that without a theory of Jump Drives, the
possibilities of having any trade to the colony world would be far from
consideration.  With the Bussards, relativistic effects make trade
difficult, and with slower schemes, travel time makes trade impossible. 
Yes, it may be only a TL 5 colony that is eventually established, but all
the advantages of TL 9 must be used for establishing the colony.  I think
that it would be advantagous to have the extra people available to
establish several colonies around the target world.  One major disaster
could wipe out a colony, having others would increase the chance for a
colony surviving.  How many colonies in the new world vanished without a
trace within a years time?  I know of the Roanoak <sp?> colony, but I'm
sure there were others.

Surviving, and what is needed:
Clearly, this represents a project of immense proportions.  Consider that
the only thing known about the target world is that it is habitable.  At
lauch time, the entire biosphere  of the target world will be an unknown.  
Determining the ecology and biology of as much of the world will be an
important factor for survival.  First, it would be unreasonable to assume
that anything on the world would be edible.  Thus, it follows that a wide
variety of foodstuffs be brought to the world.  However, there are no
guarantees that any crop can be grown nor any animal can live on this
world.  Consequently, there has to be a large variety of foodstuffs and a
genetics team capable of altering earth organisms for survival on the
world.  An alternative would be to construct greenhouses capable of
growning the earth organisms (it could work, but I havn't thought out the
implications of such a plan).

Next, hazards need to be assessed.  I've touched on some of the biological
hazards, but there could be many more.  Hazardous organisms have to be
identified and countermeasures developed.  The possibility also exists for
a whole new set of diseases to be present in the alean biosphere.  Beyond
the purely biological problems,  whether patterns need to be established,
and geologic stability needs to be determined.  Each requiring enough
experts to reasonably assess the issues in question.

Further, building materials need to be aquired.  If it turns out that there
is nothing resembling a tree on the new world, it is clear that another
source of building material needs to be established.  Canabalizing the ship
has been mentioned.  Does anyone have any other ideas?  


I wont make the same mistake twice.  Instead of another post tomorrow, I
will try to continue by the end of the weekend.

Thanks,
Marcus A. Teter

PS-- The discussion is really interesting, and I am getting a ton of new
ideas.  Also, Andrew's second vessel is even more impressive than the
first.  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 01:11:54 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Low Tech Colony Ship Design

Andrew Akins <igor@ames.net> wrote:


>Heres another go at a low-tech colony ship:
>
[snipped ship design]
>
>The assumption is that this is enough speed to engage the ramscoop. I'm not
>sure if thats true. But assuming it is, then the ship will constantly
>accelerate until its at its maximum speed (which is???). ...

Something approaching the speed of light in about 200 days.

>As far as slowing down is concerned...

The Bussard ramjet will work to slow the ship also.  If you don't drop the
tanks, they will be full when you reach your destination.  If you do, since
you don't have any internal fuel tankage, your power plant will quit (c. 200
days before you get there) and all your colonist will die.  :-(  So, you
need internal tankage for the power plant at least.

>Bussards are the way to go - give them a fusion plant and they can scoop
>their power plant fuel as well (I handwaved this, but it seemed
reasonable).

If the mag scoop will garner enough fuel to run the ram jet at 1% of the
speed of light, then as speeds increase, so will the fuel available.  At top
speeds (just under the speed of light), you should be able to scoop 100x the
fuel you need to run the engines.  Fuel for the power plant should not be a
problem.  So, there's no need for hand waving.  A minimal fuel purification
plant will eliminate any worry about the quality of fuel.

>The electrostatic armor represents a particle shield - designed to vaporize
>particles in the path of the ship. I don't know if this is reasonable or
>not...it seemed like a good idea :)

IMO, it's probably not needed.  Your weaponry should be able to eliminate
anything big enough to do you any harm.  OTOH, it probably wouldn't hurt
anything.

[snipped the first part of what the ship will carry]

>[Also] 8 1000 ton pre-fab colonies - I envision these being
>large drop palettes that already have quarters,

You could probably eliminate some of this housing mass/volume by using
something like the Survival Tent w/o the survival equipment (see T4 book 1 p
69 & 70, especially the last paragraph).

>manufacturing plants, etc...to "jump-start" the colony.

[snipped stuff about frozen embryos]

>The craft has a bank of hydroponic gardens to support life should the crew
>need to wake up at any time. up to 40 waking crewmember can be supported at
>one time.

Unfortunately, this type of life support requires a minimum number of people
be awake and using the life support.  OTOH, with the design you have, the
trip will only take c. 60 weeks (to the colonists point of view, relatively
speaking (time dilation to us, compression to them)), so maybe you should
consider keeping them awake.  If you had them take the Fast drug, they would
only experience 1 week.

One last comment, at TL 10 they could use a HEPlaR drive.  If I were
designing such a ship, I would give it a minimal Bussard ram jet, say 0.1 G,
and a HELPlaR drive, say .9 G (or maybe 1.9 G for emergency maneuvering).
With the Bussard ram scoop to provide the fuel, you could probably cut the
tankage down to...
Let's see a HEPlaR drive uses less than 4.5% the fuel to get the same
thrust, so If you were cutting down to .1 G on the Bussard, that would be
1/17 and then if you used a 1.6 G HEPlaR, that would be 4.5% of 16/17.  If
we add those together we get,  0.0588 + .045 x  0.9411 = c. 0.0588 +  0.0424
=  0.1012.  That's a little more than 1.  However with the dropped tonnage,
that 1 tank should be enough.

BTW, to calculate the acceleration, I'll need more data.  How much do the
tanks weigh empty?

Oh yeah, one last thing, for the design you had, you would be better off
with a close structure hull, it would be cheaper and weigh less.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 01:19:42 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: WHAT!?

 Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU> wrote:
>
>So if reality shifts, how many fingers will I have?  How does this relate
>to the notion of counting?  Without counting, we can't do very much in the
>way of symbolic computation.  Assuming that symbolic computation is still
>possible after reality shifts, don't we need a new basis for counting?
>
>Clark
>
That all depends on the new paradigm.  I don't know, you brought up
counting.  So?  No, when reality shifts, everything shifts, including
counting.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 01:36:31 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: WHAT!? (on-topic)

Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU> wrote:

>We should mark all components of this thread as off-topic -- the closest
>it comes to being Traveller-related is the parlimentary politics that it
>relates to.

Before Glenn Crawford <glennc@nelvana.com> changed the subject title and
started yelling at me there was a topical link to this thread.  It started
out titled "Reality Shift".  It wasn't about idiotic legislation by moronic
politicians, mathematics or Pi (except as a demonstration of what I was
talking about) or words or anything else that it has become about.  It
wasn't about rudeness or the trampling of another's ideas.  And as far as I
am concerned the "WHAT!?" topic is closed.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 00:45:30 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Plasma canNons

 
> high energy weapons *would* effective. The original Mayday rules used a one
> thousand mile scale, IIRC, and I know Book 2 did, at that scale HE weapons
> worked effectively.  OTOH, TNE used a 30,000km scale, HE weapons don't work
> effectively on that scale.

Mayday hexes were 300,000km, and combat with lasers went out to as
many as 5 hexes or so.

> So, if you want CT style ship weapons, think about CT style combat ranges,
> maybe 5 or 10 minute turns with 1 to 2 thousand km hexes. Of course, to get
> those short ranges you are going to have to cut the ranges of spinal PAWS,
> Meson cannon and lasers.
 
CT combat was always on the order of light seconds. Military sensors
were listed in Book2 I think as having a range of 1.5 million km
(I'm very unsure of this one, unlike Mayday of which I am certain).

Spinal MGs were't really short ranged, they either didn't get a
bonus for long range, or they got one for short, but range wasn't
really limited.

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 01:48:25 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Low Tech Colony Ship Design

Michael D. Peters <Letterworks@Comten.com>


>The only comment Andrew is, if you need the human females to act a host
>mothers for your frozen embryos... who or what performs the same service
for
>your livestock (mentioned in the snipped ship design). I think that an
>artificial womb of some type would be needed. This is not unreasonable
>technology for the tech level of your ship.

Actually, as disgusting as it may sound, a female of any species (including
the human species) is now capable of carrying the young of any species with
the proper attention to internal chemistry.  A human could not carry a horse
or elephant to term and survive the process, but they could carry them to
such a point that existing artificial environments would suffice.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 20:49:22 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Initial colonization considerations

>Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:17:11 -0800
>From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <schoon@aimnet.com>
>Subject: Re: Initial colonization considerations

>Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> wrote:

>>On a related note, I tried working out the growth rate of a colony with
>>people ranging from 20 to 29 years, no children or older people (I know
>>someone mentioned something about a few children of every age group being
>>necessary for some social reason, but I'm ignorant of these matters and
>>have ignored it (More information on this subject would be appreciated)).

>I agree that it's important to have an broaded age range, even if it's
>0-30. It makes for a better socially adjusted group.

Taking last centuries colonial societies as an example, 15-45 is the norm.
that allows for a reasonable depth of skills and experience in the
colony, you really need the older people too.

>>I assumed that every woman would bear, on the average, one child (that
>>would survive into adulthood) every 5 years and that they would bear
>>children from the ages of 20 to 49.

>Yow ! 6 kids per female ! Have you ever tried convincing a woman to go
>through childbirth 6 times, no matter how long between births. Also, 49 is
>pretty old to be having children. I'd say a more reasonable range might be
>20-36 at one child per 4 years, but even that might be pushing it.

That's a very late 20th century assumption. My Grandmother had 13 children
(11 of whom survived to adulthood) and families of this size were not
at all uncommon in the first half of this century. Look at family sizes in
the 18th and 19th centuries; women could and did bear very large numbers of
children. The limits are social not biological (a woman can bear a child
every 18 months + or - 15%). When one studies the demographics of transition
from a colonial society to a mature society you will find some very clear
numbers. A colony will start with a very high natural growth rate (6-8%) for
the first and second generations. The rate will then tapper off to between
5-7% for the next three or four generations, dropping to 3-5% for another
few generations, then stablising around 2-3%. One factor to consider is that
colonial societies have *much* clearer gender differentiation than mature
societies (it's fairly much enforced by the breading rate) and that children
will be born very rapidly (one per 18 months) and then stop. This is again a
social imperative not a biological one. There is a neccessity to get the
child bearing over quickly to free up an adult, and to reduce the period
with dependent children. E.G. assume six children; one per 6 years means
you have dependent children for 15 (time to effective adulthood) plus 5x6
(the child spacing) which gives you 45 years with dependent children. Now
reduce it to 18 months you get 15+(5x1.5)=22.5 years. You can easily see
the advantage in 'packing' the child bearing.

>>also I assumed no significant number
>>of accidental deaths among women of child-bearing age (All assumptions
>>open to debate, I know).

Assuming our current medical tech you get a maternal death rate of around
2-3 per 10,000 births and infant mortality of around 7-10 per 10,000 births.
Even if you drop the high intervention births you maybe double those
figures.

>Even if there are no accidental deaths, there are bound to be some natural
>ones (cancer, disease, childbirth, stroke, etc.) I'm afraid that I don't
>have any statistics to generate numbers.

Another good reason to pack the child bearing.

(My sincere apologies to all women who read this, I know I'm reducing women
to baby machines; the thing is in colonial societies, that's what they
effectively become)

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm (general)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/abuse/abuse.htm (sexual abuse pages)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/traveller.htm (Traveller pages)

****************************************************************************
We're digging a hole in the road, you can't go up, you can't go down
you'll have to wait to drive around
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #52
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Wednesday, January 28 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 053



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Canon thoughts
Re: Enterprise and saucer seperation
Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Initial colonization considerations
Contacting IG by phone?
Thudd 9
Low tech colony ship
Re: WHAT!?
Non-mainworlds
Posting WD material
Low Passage now safe?
re: dates in UWPs?
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
More Fuel to the Metaphysical Fire
Re: Contacting IG by phone?
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations II
Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...
Empress Wave
Re: Time of Death for Spacing

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 00:57:53 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Canon thoughts

I think it is important to remember that there are different types
of canon.

There is the canon of background (the most important, IMHO),
and the canon of rules. Systems to create technology, or
starsystems, or whatever fall into the latter. Historically, they
have been only loosely connected. I will use Canon for the
historical version, and canon for techy rules canon.

Take High Guard and CT as an example. We all know that in Traveller
the peace is maintained by squadrons of huge Battleships, or
Battleriders (a priciple source of debate in the Navy). *That* is
canon. HG, on the other hand while frequently refered to as canon,
has optimum military designs that are far from Canon (though closer
to the BR camp than the BB camp)---HG tends to support the smallest
ships you can wrap around a decent meson gun as I recall. Weren't
TCS competitions won by computer designs that found this optimum
design stratagy? 

So we have a tech rule set that makes ships that are so much better
than the ships published that it is hard to belive that they would
get made. I would tweak the tech rules in this case.

TNE published the good ole ships we knew and loved, but the design
systems in BL and FF&S made all of them really dumb since they
allowed for *far* superior designs. The obvious example is big
lasers. Again, what is canon? And I'd say that the ships we know are
Canon, and the tech rules should bend to fit it better.

Take the Low Berth thread of late. The thing that is important (and
was stated on the list) is that LBs be at least safe enough that
they get used! Who the hell would pay a bunch of money for such a
crappy chance to live through the trip? I'd say that *that* is the
level that LBs need to be looked at---we know they exist, so they
*must* give reasonable value given thousands of years market
pressures. What the survival rolls look like from game version to
game version are less important than whether or not they make sense
in the universe, IMHO.

I'd say that the text background takes precedence. A bunch of
changes in FFS2 were to make the design system produce results that
are more consistant with Canon. HE weapons got hosed, but all
the parties involved actually really want them, so there is active
work to figure out some way to jazz them up without really wreaking
everything else---all this stuff is tied together. I think that KKMs
are important for just this reason---text background says nukes are
a no-no for civies. Of course being a rock-thrower I'd retcon the
rules of war to say "weapons of mass destruction" or somesuch :-)

That said, making stuff match reality where ever possible is good
simply because it is a set of assumptions that we know are
internally consistant. Anyway, I think that the above is worth
thinking about when discussing Canon/canon. 

A final note on HE weapons---if you want them and don't care that
they don't work---MAKE THEM UP :-) The fact that (new) published
designs do have them will make them even stranger weapons...

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 02:10:51 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Enterprise and saucer seperation

Eris Reddoch <eris@pen.net> wrote:

>On 01/26/98 at 11:32 PM,  "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net> said:
>
>>>What is TOS?
>
>>Star Trek:  The Original Series
>
>Followed by
>ST: TME     The Movie Era
>ST: TAS     The Animated Series
>ST: TNG     The Next Generation
>ST: DS9     Deep Space 9
>ST: TSS     The Stupid Series (Voyager)
>
>and soon to be many, many more! ;->

IIRC, TAS came before TME.  :-)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 01:16:33 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Thoughts on Jump Drive

I have been thinking about Jump Drive lately.  So here are a few of my
thoughts on the subject.

1) Jump Drive consume large amounts of Fuel for the energy to perfom a
Jump.

2) If you could store energy in other forms other that fuel would that not
make Jump Drive more Efficent?

3) Why carry large ammounts of fuel if all you do is burn it to make a
jump.  Why not use Solar Cells to collect the energy from the nearest star,
or use another energy storage medium to hold the energy needed.

4) If you use Solar Cells or a another storage medium for the energy, why
not place them in a sperate object rather than a ship.  Say a Jump Gate.

5) If you use Jump Gates, why not place them at all major worlds in the
empire.

6) If you have Jump Gates at all major worlds, then why place Jump Drive on
most cargo ships & liners at all?

7) The only ships that would need Jump Drive would be military, colony, &
free trader type vessels

8) Military & free trader type vessels would only need to use jump drive
when going to systems that are not part of your empire or do not have a
jump gate.

9) Security for Jump Gates would need to be on several levels.  Electronic
& Physical.  Electronic so someone cannot hack into the system & get a free
ride.  Physical so that someone could not destroy the Jump Gate.

10) Jump Gates would be a great place for pirates to hang around.  So you
would need Physical Security to defend ships coming out of a Jump Gate.

11) Once you have captured a system with a jump gate, you can use it to
send more ships deeper into emeny lands.

12) A man could get rich owning a jump gate, so megacorps & governments
could use this a form of revenue.

So far this is what I have.  One of the reasons I posted this is because I
want feedback on this system.  The other is I am planing to run a Babylon 5
based campaign using the MT rules.

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 00:43:34 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Initial colonization considerations

Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> wrote:

>I assumed that every woman would bear, on the average, one child (that
>would survive into adulthood) every 5 years and that they would bear
>children from the ages of 20 to 49.

Actually with an initial 1000 colonists and 20 million embryos, at TL 10
I'd think the best option would be to use artificial wombs to rapidly
increase the population.  You could institute a law that every family must
raise at least one artificially grown child (or perhaps one for every
natural child raised), which would be a whole lot easier on the population
than forcing the women to bear children until they dropped, and would also
grow the population more rapidly. 

In MT at least, artificial womb technology existed at TL 10, and you could
even grow the kids at 10x the normal speed, so they would only have to be
in the things for 27 days. 


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 00:49:35 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Contacting IG by phone?

Does anyone have phone numbers for anyone at IG?  They are 9 months late
on paying me for an article in JTAS # 26 and owe me a kill fee on one for
# 27 and I've had no luck emailing or writing them.  I've talked to Tim 
Brown on the phone, and have received months worth of empty promises, so I'm 
looking for the phone number of some other person at IG that I can bother 
about this.

Many Thanks-


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:09:21
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Thudd 9

Looking at the Thuddd 9 entries, I am just blown away. Especially by the
Ritestar II by Grossport and Argukh and the Caravel from CAM Interstellar.

The Caravel epecially is making me re-assess what freight rates should be
in the Third Imperium - 56 megacredits for a Jump-2 freighter carrying 200
tons of cargo *and* 20 passengers just blows me away. This is *cheaper*
than some 200 dton Far Trader designs, and carries their total displacement
in freight. The Engineering Shop and sickbay make the ship, with a little
extra armament, suitable for long-distance trade missions well outside
Imperial Space. Only one question - the text says it has a Heplar engine,
but the tech details say Thrusters. Which is correct ?

I like the Ritestar II for it's atmospheric armament (do G+A want to sublet
a small contract to FS' Hi-Energy Solution's Division for an atmospheric
particle accelerator or a rapid-fire fusion gun ?), and the extra G and
sandcaster make it quite a bit more survivable.

Something tells me that some Ritestar IIs have 40 ships troops and a couple
of Grav APCs and atmospheric fighters crammed into the passenger cabins and
cargo hold and are used as Vargr Corsairs, raiding throughout and beyond
the Vargr Extents.

Like I said, I'm blown away.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 22:21:40 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Low tech colony ship

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/27/98 10:21 PM

<<
My main intent is to determine the number of people that
need to be taken to the colony world, and what do they need to take with
them to be successful, then build the ship to get them there.
>>

Check out Duncan Lunan's book "Man and the Stars" which addresses this
question in detail. If there is general interest I can dig out my copy and
post a summary of his thoughts...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:54:27 +0000
From: "Carlos Alos-Ferrer" <Carlos.Alos-Ferrer@univie.ac.at>
Subject: Re: WHAT!?

Snipped: Pi / Reality shifts stuff...

> Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU> wrote:
>So if reality shifts, how many fingers will I have?  How does this
>relate to the notion of counting?  Without counting, we can't do 

	As a mathematician, my stomach hurts when I read this stuff about 
conventions for Pi not being equal to... well, Pi. OTOH...
	I humbly recommend the lecture of Bob Shaw´s series "The wooden 
starships". In addition to being a ripping good SF read, as you read 
through it, you discover that you are in a different reality, where 
Pi is exactly equal to 3... and, Clark, the characters have six 
fingers in each hand ;-). Not that the series is centered in those 
two details, but still interesting.
- -----------------------------------------------
Carlos Alos-Ferrer
Department of Economics, University of Vienna.
Hohenstaufengasse, 9. 1010 Vienna (Austria)
Tlf: (+43-1) 4277 37438  Fax: (+43-1) 4277 9374
- -----------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:27:14
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Non-mainworlds

With the talk going on about Second Survey and mapping programs and so on,
I'd like to put mt 2 cents in for the appearance of non-mainworlds.

The reason is that while the mainworld may be the most important world in
the system, non mainworlds, especially farming worlds in systems with an
industrial or non-ag mainworld, can be pretty important as well.

It's a big issue in PE as well - it's a lot cheaper to colonise and uplift
a world in the same system. Population transfer should be easier as well.

It also provides adventuring opportunities for starship-less adventurers -
it is conceivable that a group of PCs could pool their cash and buy an
insystem ship, and go surveying or colonising or whatever.

Finally, when Second Survey is done, serious thought should go to issueing
it on disk or CD-ROM. 

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 22:56:34 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Posting WD material

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/27/98 10:56 PM

<< Shadow wrote...
From what I hear, most gaming mags buy
*all* the rights. Which means that the author essentially has no say in
what they do with it, and can't use it himself!
In that latter case, *only* GW can give you permission.
>>

Wherever I've been published, the deal has always been that you sell all
the rights or you don't get published. The magazine viewpoint is that they
might want to use the work again and wouldn't want to chase up all the
authors to get permission for reuse.

In my own case, between approximately WD20 and WD38 I was a Games Workshop
employee, and GW can reasonably argue that much of the work was done using
their facilities in working hours.

I have written to one magazine and been told that in addition to this they
would not be pay for the articles. I did not pursue writing for that
publication further.

IMHO something like a non-transferable licence to use in perpetuity would
be nice for the author. I don't know if that would be of interest to
magazines.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 21:43:53 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Low Passage now safe?

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/27/98 09:43 PM

<<
....suddenly Low Passage on a Sickbay equiped ship becomes a safe and
cheap alternative to Middle or High Passage.
    If this stands it also has cannon breaking implications, since Low
Passage
has always been "risky" in Traveller.  This makes it safe.  Thoughts?
>>

If low passage is taken from the Dumarest series (I always assumed so) then
the low berths are in the free trader's hold and are intended for shipping
livestock, and that's why they are (a) cheap and (b) risky. IIRC low
passage is described as "travelling doped, frozen and 90% dead, in caskets
designed for livestock."

It seems reasonable to me that a berth in a sickbay designed to preserve
human life would be safer.

Plus... I have never actually killed a PC through low berth failure. If a
PC dies, it should be for some dramatic purpose, IMHO.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:20:44 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: dates in UWPs?

TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com> wrote:

>  maybe a # before... Some kind of notation?  The 3I based their system off've
>the Vilani's system (which the Rule of Man used too, no?) didn't they?  They
>would be able to tell... "damn... this system hasn't been visited since the
>Long Night."

Put it in the extended data set (as posted by Marc) as a single (hex) code
eg M0 is 0, etc and expand as new milieus arise. This removes the problem
of linking to the dating system and adding in a -tve for Milieus prior to
M0. I mean, an Ancients set would otherwise be -200000!

Also, I'd argue for adding in the space for the economics extension from
Pocket Empires.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:27:16 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

 Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca> wrote:

>Wouldn't it be easier to re-rate all weapon damage values up one level,
>and note in the rules that damage is nd6-d6?

This would invalidate every weapon design as published (ie FFS2 and EA and
CSC). I agree it's simpler but it messes with the existing published
material... and with some of the better material at that.

>Better yet, just keep damage as it is, for if the damage turns out to be
>0 or less, what was the point of the to hit roll? That's how it's
>determined whether damage is applied or not... that's where the luck of
>just being "grazed" is determined.

I can see a need for better low end resolution for the damage, but have the
feeling that the +1D/-1D would be unwieldy. But as someone else said, I
haven't tried this one with my players yet (unlike the new task system
which went really well). I may well ignore it. I know that I would be
really irritated as a player if I hit someone and then ended up with 0
damage.

Marc - How do the additional dice rolled interface with the armour rules?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 06:34:31 EST
From: Darth <Darth@aol.com>
Subject: More Fuel to the Metaphysical Fire

In a message dated 1/27/98 6:39:15 PM,

Scott

Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/

wrote:

>Just to be clear, I assume that reality is what is there when nobody is
>looking,

I'm not sure that anything is really there when consciousness of some sort is
not interpreting / creating it, vis a vis the Heidenberg Uncertainly
Principle.

Simply perceiving an event irrevocably changes it.  It's a "scientific" fact.

   Darth

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 03:35:09 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Contacting IG by phone?

At 12:49 AM 1/28/98 -0800, John wrote:
>Does anyone have phone numbers for anyone at IG?  They are 9 months late
>on paying me for an article in JTAS # 26 and owe me a kill fee on one for
># 27 and I've had no luck emailing or writing them.  I've talked to Tim 
>Brown on the phone, and have received months worth of empty promises, so I'm 
>looking for the phone number of some other person at IG that I can bother 
>about this.

At this point I'm about ready to drive to LA, stand on Courtney's desk and
scream (ala "Better Off Dead")  I WANT MY 75 DOLLARS!  It may not sound
like much, but for me $75 is a week's worth of food, five doctor visits, or
a nice night out for Kirsten and me.  It's also the principle of the thing.
 I sold them and article a year ago.  I was promised payment on
publication.  The article was published, I haven't been paid.

I too, have heard too many glib put-offs from Tim Brown.  Has he told you
that "The check is sitting on my desk in front of me" yet?
- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:31:42 +0000
From: Phil Kitching <PhilK@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations II

>Date: Tue, 27 Jan 98 23:48:29 PST
>From: "Marcus & Lurann Teter" <galileo@montana.campus.mci.net>

<snip>

>Surviving, and what is needed:
>Clearly, this represents a project of immense proportions.  Consider that
>the only thing known about the target world is that it is habitable.  At
>lauch time, the entire biosphere  of the target world will be an unknown.  
>Determining the ecology and biology of as much of the world will be an
>important factor for survival.  First, it would be unreasonable to assume
>that anything on the world would be edible.  Thus, it follows that a wide
>variety of foodstuffs be brought to the world.  However, there are no
>guarantees that any crop can be grown nor any animal can live on this
>world.  Consequently, there has to be a large variety of foodstuffs and a
>genetics team capable of altering earth organisms for survival on the
>world.  An alternative would be to construct greenhouses capable of
>growning the earth organisms (it could work, but I havn't thought out the
>implications of such a plan).

for the really cautious, I would suggest designing the ship so that once in
orbit it can be converted to an extended large animal ecosystem.
That way you can leave some colonists and animals and plants on the ship
where they could survive any problems with your chosen colony sites.

If your planet does not have artifical womb technology, risking losing an
irreplaceable herd (or all your colonists) to an unexpected biological
problemwould seem silly when you have a prefectly good isolated "greenhouse"
in orbit.

<snip>

Phil

ps
someone commented unfavourably about the "6 children per female" idea.

Multiple children per family and child bearing before twenty is not totally
unheared of :-)
Indeed, if you don't have artificial womb technology, accepting multiple
children would (IMHO) be part of the deal that gets you on the trip.
(The same deal that has more women than men in the first generation).

On a high tech, hi pop world, freedom of choice over childberth
might be one of the reasons for going.

- --
  Mailto:Philk@btinternet.com (don't blame BT - they only pay me:)
  Get out of the Way! Another Salvo bandwagon is beginning to roll.
  http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:49:28 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Time of Death for Spacing

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/28/98 12:49 PM

<<
For example, 6D Hits is read as 6D +D -D Hits.
     ^^^^                                       ^^^^^^^^
 Hmmm... this is *new*-- and a bit unnecessary, IMHO. >>
How much is a "bit" unnecessary? Maybe + half die minus half die for a
range
from -2 to +2?
Marc
>>

IMHO, totally unnecessary. What I think I see here is having to roll a set
of dice to see how many dice I have to roll for damage, which seems
pointless. So every time someone takes damage someone has to roll an extra
set of dice? Is that really what's being said, or have I misunderstood?

My affection for CT (and by CT I mean the original three black books!) is
largely based on the clean simplicity of the system, and I hope to see at
least an option for that level of detail in T4.1. This rule doesn't look
like it's going that way, unless I misunderstand it.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:57:53 +0100 (MET)
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
Subject: Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...

On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Andrew Akins wrote:

> I may be beating a dead horse here...I obviously feel one way (as do some
> others), while others take exception...and it doesn't seem like either side
> is convincing the other :) However, at the moment this is a fairly friendly
> argument, so her I go...>
> 
> 
> The truth is though, even the storyline an theme changed from ruleset to
> ruleset -
> CT - Mysterious, high adventure (the Ancients, trading, etc...)
> MT - Rebellion
> TNE - Recovery
> T4 - Discovery

What I meant to say, and failed to say, was that the historical outline is
the only thing IMHO that is canon. The theme is part of what makes the
four versions different just as you say, but that has in my view nothing
to do with canon.

> If you discard canon, IMHO, you might as well say you have four different
> games, and only the first (being the first) should be called Traveller. The
> first game set up the universe, the technology, the races. I may be wrong,

I think what you want is that the old CT should still be continued. I
think that the only way that is going to happen is that you yourself make
new supplements for it. My argument for this is simply that it is easier
for IG and the writers to tweak the rules so that they are in line with
what most people see as physically reasonable, than to go back and be
consistant with all prepublished material. To do this with the technical
stuff is almost impossible and surely not economical feasible. To stay
true to the historical *canon* is much simpler and IMHO what should be
done.

> but it appears that more material was made for classic Traveller than the
> other versions - perhaps even combined. Now this might be the "old-timer" in
> me speaking, but would think that an effort should be made so that those of
> us who own that material (or are still buying it - a great amount can be
> found in used game stores and auctions on the web) don't now have a useless
> library of paper.

Why is it a useless library of paper? I is what you make it. You want to
use plasma/fusion guns, just use the rules from CT. You want to use HEPlaR
instead of thruster plates do so. You want to use TNE version of fuel
consumption do so. These are just IMHO nittipicky rules that really
doesn't change anything of the historical background, which really is the
important part.

> I would even be satisfied (not happy, but satisfied) if a system were
> available to convert CT and MT ships, equipment, etc to the new rules. It
> has been suggested to make fusion guns circular PAWS in turrets - I'm not
> sure this will work. I tried designing one (assuming that the diameter has
> to be less than 4.18 to fit in the socket), and I just couldn't get any real
> performance.
> 

Why not just make up rules for fusion guns. Just say that this is the way
it works in your campaign. You want a CT-style campaign go right ahead.
I still swear by a TNE approach myself, and there is nothing wrong with
that. 

We must just be aware that IG is in it for the money and nothing else.
There is no fandom there pushing them to go the extra mile just so that
Traveller stays the best game there is. So they have to take the easy way
out, and it is I think easier to check a physics book and make rules that
to the writer is logical than consulting thousands of out-of-print books
and making sure that the new rules dosn't brake anything therein.

> I agree that I might be overreacting - its been known to happen :) And I
> concede that these items that I am concerned about break physics (as we know
> it, I will add). That's not my point. Like I said above, perhaps we cannot
> agree on this (which leaves it in the hands of the publishers, as it has
> always been :) ). This is a science fiction game. We need to cater to both
> the science and the fiction. I don't like the idea (and this is me) that we
> can say "We're gonna have jump drive (scientifically unsound) and
> contra-grav (anyone wanna explain this) but no other departures from
> reality. Everything else is gonna be hard sci-fi."

I think you have to look at it from the writer point of view. They have
(generally) not been playing the game for twenty-odd years. They don't
know by heart every edition and version of the game. They propably don't
even have access to all the material published, as many on this list do.
If I write an article for JTAS on Traveller, and I own only some TNE and
T4 stuff it is much easier for me to have rules that are physcally
reasonable to work with. CG and Jump is something that is taken away
violates the hole historical background, a sin that is much worse than the
removal of fusion guns.

> Why is it that you guys can let Jump and CG slide with some handwaves (for
> the good of the game, which I agree with), but won't even consider trying to
> come up with a pseudo-science handwave for these other things? (and yes, I
> know I haven't offered any possible handwaves - because to be honest, I'm
> not very knowledgable about the science of such things).

Simply beacuse it isn't worth the hassle. No know Science Fiction show
uses Plasma/Fusion guns, or KKM for that matter. Its all laserlike
graphics. If you want to sell a game to youngsters today the game has to
have a ST, B5, Star Wars flauver, and then fusion guns uneassecary. The
game is unfortuanlly not targeted for the old fans, but at the teenagers
out there.  

> I guess we have to agree to disagree. I will continue to support HE, PA
> turrets, lower-tech repulsors, KKMs (although I do like the idea of lower
> power chemical det lasers - I could be swayed to this as an alternative) and
> such in my campaign - and I'm gonna try to hammer out some ways of dealing
> with these items with the new rules. I respect all of your views, and can
> not find any real fault with your arguments - its just you (my esteemed
> opponents in these debates) place more stock on science than canon, while I
> place more on canon than stock. To each his/her own :)

And more power to you for it. Just make up rules for it all, post it here
and I'm sure ten people will pick them up and use them (although twenty
might scream out that it is unscientiffical). That people use it is what
counts in the long run.
 
> Andrew Akins


Tommy Grav                  tommy.grav@astro.uio.no    
Institute of Astrophysics   http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/
University in Oslo          "If you value your lives, be somwhere 
Norway                       else!" - Ambassador Delenn B5 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:06:48 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Empress Wave

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/28/98 01:06 PM

I hear this topic has been speculated on a lot in the TML before I joined.
Would some kind soul email me the speculations, or let me know where to
look in the TML archives? This has been driving me nuts since I got TNE.
(And if anyone listening has influence over whether the closing-down-TNE
supplement by Dave ever gets published, I'd buy it for sure).

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 08:23:27 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

In a message dated 98-01-27 15:45:00 EST, you write:

<< 
 Since, on average, it has no effect, how about having it as an optional rule,
 for people who don't mind the added complexity?
  >>

You are trying to compromise. You mean, I don't like it. Don't include it.

Marc

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #53
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Wednesday, January 28 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 054



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Time of Death for Spacing
has ANYONE been paid for JTAS?
Colony Ship
Mayday scale
Re: Low Passage now safe?
UPP Data Format
Re: More Fuel to the Metaphysical Fire
Re: More Fuel to the Metaphysical Fire
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Death and Dying
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations II 
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Low tech colony ship
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...
Dates in UWPs
Re: dates in UWPs?
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
+D-D Discussion (renamed)
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations II

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 08:23:34 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

In a message dated 98-01-27 21:39:09 EST, you write:

<< >
 >so Marc's nd6+d6-d6 formula can be collapsed down to (n+2)d6-7 and...
  >>

Which is confusing and non-intuitive,

as is collapsing nD6 +D6 - D6 to n+1 D6 - D6.

Which is also not intuitive.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 14:00:33 +0000
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: has ANYONE been paid for JTAS?

Yo Folks,
     I keep seeing more and more posts from different people.
     Is there anyone on this list who was _actually paid_ for work in JTAS?
     Or was the whole thing just a bogus moneyspinner?
          Jo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 08:08:17 -0500
From: "Glenn Crawford" <glennc@nelvana.com>
Subject: Colony Ship

Andrew Akins posted a ship here to the TML. In general, very well thought
out (I really liked the ES armour.) However, I would have some point defence
type weapons (not for ship defence so much but to vapourize anything too
large for the ESA). Do you have the design sequence still? I would like to
see that posted, so as to see the exact cubic meters of engine, power and so
on, please. 

Overall Grade B

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:23:24 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Mayday scale

>If ship to ship combat ranges are dropped to a few thousand km then the
>high energy weapons *would* effective. The original Mayday rules used a one
>thousand mile scale, IIRC, and I know Book 2 did, at that scale HE weapons
>worked effectively.  OTOH, TNE used a 30,000km scale, HE weapons don't work
>effectively on that scale.

Wasn't that 300 000 km hex scale? I lost the rules to Mayday but I seem to
remember the figure (we thought it WAY too long back then) and also
remember that Mayday had 1 hex planets to scoot around with gravity and
all.

Starships had 1 inch = 1000 km or something. But in Starships you could hit
a ship VERY far out. I'll look at 1st ed LBB when I get home.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:29:31 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Low Passage now safe?

>Plus... I have never actually killed a PC through low berth failure. If a
>PC dies, it should be for some dramatic purpose, IMHO.

Yes, like misjumping into deep space with no reserve fuel for astrogating
while being seriously drunk. One PC actually snuffed it that way but I
agree I was mean at the time. His name lives on though as his Whiskey label
(arguable if you could call it whiskey if it's made on Keng/Regina)
"Eberman bloodwhiskey" got quite a reputation and is still popping up in my
universe.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 22:23:48 +0800
From: "Michael Bailey" <mickb@opera.iinet.net.au>
Subject: UPP Data Format

In the interests of backward compatability, I'd favour creating any new UPP
standard as a superset of the existing one.

My own pet project revolves around creating a second sector file, (*.EXT) to
contain new and extended system data.  The two files share the same data in
columns 1..4 (location), which is used as an index.

Other columns will add extended economic data, WBH data, and other things (a
timestamp is a good idea).

I'm also leaning towards a sector 'header', containing route, border and
other sector details.

As it stands, whatever format is settled upon, I should be able to modify
TRTOOLS to handle it with relatively little effort (new LOAD and WRITE
methods should do it).  Looks like learning Object Oriented Programming (or
a bastardised hybrid thereof) may have been a good idea.

Michael Bailey
mickb@opera.iinet.net.au

"if it's worth doing, it's worth doing to excess..."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:34:24 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: More Fuel to the Metaphysical Fire

>I'm not sure that anything is really there when consciousness of some sort is
>not interpreting / creating it, vis a vis the Heidenberg Uncertainly
>Principle.
>
>Simply perceiving an event irrevocably changes it.  It's a "scientific" fact.
>
>   Darth

No it is not. Measuring a system means perturbing it and that's a
scientific fact. Wether it has to be a consciousness doing it or not
depends on your Quantum Mechanics interpretation which you are free to
choose. Karl Poppers version more or less says what you say but QM
interpretations are unprovable and therefore metaphysics which equals
religion.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 14:51:31 +0000
From: "Martin F C Pickett" <ceemfcp@cee.hw.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: More Fuel to the Metaphysical Fire

Darth <Darth@aol.com> wrote
> Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
> wrote:
> 
> >Just to be clear, I assume that reality is what is there when nobody is
> >looking,
> 
> I'm not sure that anything is really there when consciousness of 
> some sort is not interpreting / creating it, vis a vis the 
> Heidenberg Uncertainly Principle.
> 
> Simply perceiving an event irrevocably changes it.  It's a 
> "scientific" fact.

Hmm.  That Can-O'-Worms again huh?  OK, well, I'll accept that as 
being about as true as any scientific theory can be (i.e. it's useful 
as a working hypothesis and we haven't found anything better).

Now then, how about discussing the implications?  Who or what has to 
perceive an event to count as an 'observer'?  A consciousness?  What 
defines a consciousness?  Can observing be second hand?  Can any 
observing done by a 'consciousness' be anything _other_ than second 
hand, given the quantum nature of the universe?  If nothing is 
happening when you're not looking, how does it know what's supposed 
to be happening when you do look?  And what is _it_, the mysterious 
thing that isn't there when you're not looking but manages to keep 
score anyway?

And why does my head hurt?

Martin
[All due credit must be given here to Roger Penrose, a man who asks 
questions like these and then tries to answer them.  Ouch.]
Martin Pickett 
ceemfcp@cee.hw.ac.uk
Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are alive, well and living on Sylea 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:11:16 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

On Mon, 26 Jan 98 22:21:34 -0600, Eris Reddoch wrote:

> On 01/26/98 at 10:27 AM,  CardSharks@aol.com said:
> 
> ><< For example, 6D Hits is read as 6D +D -D Hits.
> >     ^^^^                                       ^^^^^^^^
> > 
> > Hmmm... this is *new*-- and a bit unnecessary, IMHO. >>
> 
> >How much is a "bit" unnecessary? Maybe + half die minus half die for a
> >range from -2 to +2?
> 
> Marc, the "a bit unnecessary" might not be the range of values, it might be
> the rolling of an extra two dice and a subtraction on every damage roll. I
> like the concept of +/-, but without playtesting it I'm not sure it adds
> enough functionality to offset the addtional complexity. It's a "have to
> try it before you can tell" type of thing.
> 
> Eris

Eris is correct.  Whatever you do, Marc, don't make it "+D3 -D3"  :)



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mono au mono, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:11:17 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:30:35 -0600, Richard A. Flores wrote:

> James Lindsay <jlindsay@direct.ca> wrote:

[snip]

> >3) Players will need two additional dice that are marked differently than
> >   the others-- a green one for the "+D" and a red one for the "-D", for
> >   example.
> 
> You could just roll two dice and subtract seven (2D-7) and get the same
> results.

This wouldn't really solve much.  You would still be rolling one set of
dice, and then rolling a second set of dice (using a different method of
reading them other than simply adding them up) and comparing it to the
first batch.



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mono au mono, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:11:21 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Death and Dying

On Tue, 27 Jan 1998 18:52:55 -0800, Douglas E. Berry wrote:

> At 03:35 PM 1/27/98 -0800, you wrote:
> 
> >O.k. so how or where can I find a copy of your ACQ rules?
> 
> At Close Quarters, a Combat System For Marc Miller's Traveller, is
> (hopefully) going to published by BITS sometime this year.  James and I
> will recieve the usual BITS payment (promisies of a night down the 'pub if
> we ever get to England, and enough money to split an order of Chicken
> McNuggest is neither of us is hungry.)

England!?!  Pubs!?!  I'm a packin' me bags rIght noww!

Now all we have to do is figure out how to split the honey-mustard sauce.



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mono au mono, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:11:14 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 12:18:29 -0700 (MST), Bruce Johnson wrote:

> 
> On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, James Lindsay wrote:
>  
> > With all the physical trauma that your body would be undergoing (boiling
> > *and* freezing at the same time) I doubt anyone could remain conscious for
> > much over a minute.  The numbers I have generated lead to unconsciousness
> > at around 30 seconds and "death" via brain damage at 84 seconds (for an
> > average 777777 individual).
> > 
> > I guess my next question should be "Is this close enough to being accurate,
> > or do I have to rewrite our asphyxiation rules from scratch?"
> 
> Except you aren't 'freezing and boiling' at the same time. The human body
> is a good insulator. You'll be getting some superficial freezing, but
> you're not going to radiate heat that fast. The same holds for the boiling
> part. You'll heat up a lot faster than you wold in an atmosphere, since
> there's no air to filter out the solar radiation, and you'll sunburn PDQ.
> 
> Still...84 sec is way too short a time for brain death to occur. the
> standard CPR rule is at 10 _minutes_ after heartbeat cessation you can get
> brain damage starting to occur, and at 20 you will get it to
> occur...actual brainwave flatlining is somewhat beyond that. if the poor
> sap is in shadow, IE: cold, hypothermic effects can actually extend that
> time.

10 minutes doesn't model too well for an RPG, unless you want to get really
technical.  Our idea had characters suffering normal stat degradation to
the three physical stats, with additional damage being applied to INT once
the physical stats were all zeroed out.  I guess additional losses to INT
could be played out per minute instead of per combat round.

OK, here's another quick question:  Is the physical damage due to exposure
to a vacuum likely to take much longer to recover from compared to a normal
Traveller character reduced to 000xxx?



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mono au mono, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:11:19 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

On Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:02:11 -0600, Richard A. Flores wrote:

[snip]

> You know, I really ought to take out those long explanations of what I
> snipped and why.

Yup :)



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mono au mono, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:11:18 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

On Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:23:28 EST, CardSharks wrote:

> In a message dated 98-01-27 01:00:17 EST, you write:
> 
> << >I still think it is a bit unnecessary, however.  I thought you (Marc) had
>  >already decided on the current task dice format-- or is that changing as
>  >well?
>   >>
> 
> +D-D is not about task resolution; it is about hit points. Once a task (say,
> rifle fire) produces a hit, we determine damage... which is nD +D-D. That's
> not the same as the 2.5D for resolving a Difficult Task (for example).

Whew!  That's a relief!  It coulda got ugly (where's Kenneth?).

I'd say include it as an optional rule, IMHO.  It is still rather awkward
to use compared to the old method...

Old method: Roll a number of dice and add them together

New method: Roll a number of dice and add them together,
            Then roll two additional dice (+D -D) and work out the result,
           *Then* subtract the result of the "+D -D" from the total of the
               first batch of dice

That's an extra two steps.




James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mono au mono, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 07:23:36 PST
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations II 

<<<Of course you're right, I wasn't thinking of it like that,  In the 
original "Low Tech Colony Ship" post, the author (Andrew Atkins, IIRC) 
spoke of sending 4,000 t of equipment.  Which even at TL 9 could 
represent 200 small factories.  But then would also have to have heavy 
construction equipment, ground movers, etc.>>>

I was thinking about that 4,000t of equipment [to make ...X?] What would 
the equipment be that you would plan on taking to start the colony?  If 
you were limited to 4,000t, (not really sure what that represents 
myself), what would you first concentrate on to get your society 
started?  Let's assume that the planet to be colonized has a hospitable 
climate/atmosphere, nothing tainted or corrosive.  I would think that 
you need to establish the basics of an industrial society, so you would 
need power generation, steel production (you could cut up the ship 
eventually), agriculture...  

At TL 9, will you be able to identify mineral concentrations from space 
or will you need to do a ground recce?  

For the list, What would be your top ten list of priorities for 
establishing your colony?  What would be the industries you would try to 
establish?

Greg
The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:29:48 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 08:23:27 EST, CardSharks wrote:

> In a message dated 98-01-27 15:45:00 EST, you write:
> 
> << 
>  Since, on average, it has no effect, how about having it as an optional rule,
>  for people who don't mind the added complexity?
>   >>
> 
> You are trying to compromise. You mean, I don't like it. Don't include it.

I don't think Andrew is trying to compromise the system at all (although I
can't speak out whether he likes it or not).  What I believe he is saying
is that the damage system would work equally well with or without the "+D
- -D" rule so why not make it an-- albeit, possibly quite popular-- optional
rule?  As optional rules go, it works extremely well because the system
doesn't suffer without it.

Some TMLers may very well mean what you say: "I don't like it.  Don't
include it."   But for people like Andrew, it may simply mean "I'm not sure
whether I like it or not, but please write T4.1 so that I can choose
between using the rule or not  when I finally *do* make up my mind :)"



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mono au mono, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 09:48:59 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Low tech colony ship

ASlack@synetics.co.uk <ASlack@synetics.co.uk> wrrote:
>Check out Duncan Lunan's book "Man and the Stars" which addresses 
>this question [numbers needed for a sucessful colony] in detail. If there 
>is general interest I can dig out my copy and post a summary of his 
>thoughts...
>
I'm interested.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 07:46:45 -0800
From: "Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing" <electric-stitch@w-link.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

>3) Why carry large ammounts of fuel if all you do is burn it to make a
>jump.  Why not use Solar Cells to collect the energy from the nearest star,
>or use another energy storage medium to hold the energy needed.
>


As far as I understand "all" of the fuel is not burned to start a jump.  A
large quantitiy is used to open the jump field, but that field needs to be
maintained through the entire jump.
Now, here's an idea to help... first, you have to be able to have Jump Gate
transfer the jump field from itself to the ship passing through. Second, you
have to be able to maintain the jump field. So, keep the jump drive and add
a device to be able to use the jump field produced by the gate. You won't
need nearly as muc fuel, but you would still need the drive. Another
thought, keep the fuel tanks. Convert them to cargo holds, but make it so
they could be sealed and used for fuel. This would allow the ship to be
capable of independent jump.

I think the jump gates would have to be controlled. Either by corporations
or government.
I can see a toll being charged to use the jump gate. Since you will probably
make more money from increased cargo.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:03:12 -0600
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...

>Simply beacuse it isn't worth the hassle. No know Science Fiction show
>uses Plasma/Fusion guns, or KKM for that matter. Its all laserlike
>graphics. If you want to sell a game to youngsters today the game has to
>have a ST, B5, Star Wars flauver, and then fusion guns uneassecary. The
>game is unfortuanlly not targeted for the old fans, but at the teenagers
>out there.

Um actually, B5 makes quite extensive use of plasma guns (PPGs). Most of
the small craft weapons (the pulse weapons) are PPGs.

Of course, they fight at spitting distance on such shows. High energy
weapons (of CT)  would be really effective at the distances depicted on
such programs. All the Trave weapons would. And they would never miss.
Ever. If anything, the long distance combat used in the more recent
editions of Traveller are contrary to popular sci fi.

------------------------------

Date: 28 Jan 1998 11:02 EST
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Dates in UWPs

Probably the easiest way to encode UWP era is in the trade codes:

Corient       0000 C5A4210-8    Lo Ni Fl m0        301
					 ^^
	This is a Milieu 0 UWP.


Upshai        0000 B36679B-7    Ag Ri m1000        230  

	This is a Milieu 1000 UWP.  

Quegeure      0000 D65367A-1  S Ni Po mE           320  

	And this is a Milieu E21 UWP (E = Earth).

Note that this could take a lot of precious space.
Since a list of such data will hopefully be of the same era, a header
line could contain such data:

SUBSECTOR FooBar Ring/Ray Milieu other_data_here


Or more flexibly (and more difficult to parse) is a data line above
a group of worlds inside a subsector listing, in case the worlds
have differently aged data:

* Last Surveyed: 950
Unimory       0000 E255502-5    Ag Ni           A  704    
Egkulary      0000 C652387-8  S Lo Ni Po           701    
Djcultion     0000 E642230-3    Lo Ni Po           120    
Aomni         0000 A146620-D  N Ag Ni           A  103    
Bran          0000 E567201-4    Lo Ni              400    
Viitent       0000 A520635-B  N Na Ni Po De        703    
* Last Surveyed: 900
Djmbum        0000 BA77466-A  N Ni                 401    
* Last Surveyed: 950
Quarmbs       0000 D542863-5    Po                 523    
Bsoor         0000 C210144-6    Lo Ni              202    
Lamisen       0000 A653522-8  N Ni Po              400    


It's probably a good idea to have very few surveys, so as
not to clutter up the data (i.e. First Survey, Second Survey,
Third Survey, etc), and label a group of systems with the
'official' survey date for that subsector.  This also leaves
room for the referee to prepare surprises for the players...
such as a world in a subsector that was overlooked by the
last survey.

* First Foo Survey (300)
Unimory       0000 E255502-5    Ag Ni           A  704    
Egkulary      0000 C652387-8  S Lo Ni Po           701    
Djcultion     0000 E642230-3    Lo Ni Po           120    
Aomni         0000 A146620-D  N Ag Ni           A  103    
Bran          0000 E567201-4    Lo Ni              400    
Viitent       0000 A520635-B  N Na Ni Po De        703    
Djmbum        0000 BA77466-A  N Ni                 401    
* Second Foo Survey (450)
Quarmbs       0000 D542863-5    Po                 523    
Bsoor         0000 C210144-6    Lo Ni              202    
Lamisen       0000 A653522-8  N Ni Po              400    

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:33:49 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: dates in UWPs?

SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> wrote:


>Put it [the date notation] in the extended data set (as posted
>by Marc) as a single (hex) code eg M0 is 0, etc and expand
>as new milieus arise. This removes the problem of linking to
>the dating system and adding in a -tve for Milieus prior to
>M0. I mean, an Ancients set would otherwise be -200000!
>
Perhaps a simple logarithmic notation.  Something like:
code
#    Years since last survey
0                0 to 3 years
1                3 to 7 years
2                7 to 20 years
3              20 to 55 years
4              55 to 148 years
5            148 to 403 years
6            403 to 1,097 years
7         1,097 to 2,981 years
8         2,981 to 8,103 years
9         8,103 to 22,026 years
A      22,026 to 59,874 years
B      59,874 to 162,755 years
C    162,755 to 442,413 years
D    442,413 to 1,202,604 years
E 1,202,604 to 3,269,017 years
F 3,269,017 to 8,886,111 years

This single hexadecimal # would give us a time scale beyond anyone's
estimates of possible dates on useful intelligence.

>Also, I'd argue for adding in the space for the economics extension from
>Pocket Empires.
>
Sounds good to me.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:45:22 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

In a message dated 98-01-28 06:11:11 EST, you write:

<< 
 >Wouldn't it be easier to re-rate all weapon damage values up one level,
 >and note in the rules that damage is nd6-d6?
 
  >>
I have said before, reducing the equation to simplest terms makes the effect
non-intuitive.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:45:12 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: +D-D Discussion (renamed)

In a message dated 98-01-28 07:50:38 EST, you write:

<< 
 IMHO, totally unnecessary. What I think I see here is having to roll a set
 of dice to see how many dice I have to roll for damage, which seems
 pointless. So every time someone takes damage someone has to roll an extra
 set of dice? Is that really what's being said, or have I misunderstood?
 
  >>
You have mis-understood. I don't know where you got the idea that you roll to
see how many dice you roll.

Marc


There is a standard nD for weapon damage... that is to say, a sword does 2D
damage (for example). But does that guarantee that the sword's damage is
always between 2 and 12? Is that the most (or the least that it can do?)

I think that there is a strong argument that a sword swing (or other weapon
damage) even at this point in the process (after the fact of hitting has been
determined) the damage could still be "just a nick" or "wow! what a hit!"

Frankly, here's how it plays out with the players:

You swing, and hit the thug. Your sword does 2D damage. Roll 2D. But before
you do, you should know that there is some variation in the damage a sword can
do. On average, that variation averages out to zero. So I guess it really
doesn't matter.

Oh, you mean I could do even more damage?

Yes, or less... depending on...

(alt 1) No way I'll take less damage. Forget it.

(alt 2) Sure, I'll try it.

etc.

Continued example...

So he rolls 7 for sword hit damage. Then he rolls for variance +D -D and comes
up zero 16% of the time. But he could transform that 7 into anything from 2 to
12.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:48:33 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations II

Phil Kitching <PhilK@btinternet.com> wrote:
>for the really cautious, I would suggest designing the ship so that once in
>orbit it can be converted to an extended large animal ecosystem.
>That way you can leave some colonists and animals and plants on the ship
>where they could survive any problems with your chosen colony sites.

IMO, this is an excellent idea.  Even when things are completely settled,
such a place would be of historical and social importance

>If your planet does not have artifical womb technology, risking losing an
>irreplaceable herd (or all your colonists) to an unexpected biological
>problemwould seem silly when you have a prefectly good isolated
"greenhouse"
>in orbit.
>
>Phil
>
>ps
>someone commented unfavourably about the "6 children per female" idea.
>
>Multiple children per family and child bearing before twenty is not totally
>unheared of :-)
>Indeed, if you don't have artificial womb technology, accepting multiple
>children would (IMHO) be part of the deal that gets you on the trip.
>(The same deal that has more women than men in the first generation).

In colonial settings large families are quite common.  I was thinking that
an inital ratio of 1 man 4 women and perhaps thier children (if any).  If
the women carried 2 or 3 of the unborn colonists at a time, they could
reduce the time to full population by that much more.  I know there will be
a slighly higher danger factor, but for TL 10, that should not be much.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #54
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Wednesday, January 28 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 055



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

+D-D Damage (new! with tables!)
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: +D-D Discussion (renamed)
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: +D-D Discussion (renamed)
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Contacting IG by phone
me 2 : Empress Wave
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re:  canon and HE weapons
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
+D-D Discussion (renamed)
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:55:59 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: +D-D Damage (new! with tables!)

Richard A. Flores wrote:

[snippage of the part of the post that Richard is behind, yet strangely
later no longer seems to be]

> >The probability of results for +D-D and 2D6-7 are exactly the same.
> >The only difference is in what numbers come up on each individual dice.
> >
> >so Marc's nd6+d6-d6 formula can be collapsed down to (n+2)d6-7 and...
 
[I snipped out Richard's explanation of why he snipped out parts of my
post that he felt were unrelated to his reply]
 
> Um, you might want to go back and reread the reply that Marc made just
> after (or was it just before) my post (to which you are replying).  I think
> that there is a misunderstanding of what he intended.

I don't think that *I* misunderstood what he intended. Though _you_ may
have, and assumed my reply to your post did...

> In fact, why don't I repost that so you won't have to.

Sure. Let's review. :)

> Someone wrote:
> 
> >>I still think it is a bit unnecessary, however.  I thought you (Marc) had
> >>already decided on the current task dice format-- or is that changing
> >>as well?
> 
> Marc Miller replied:
> 
> >+D-D is not about task resolution; it is about hit points. Once a
> >task  (say, rifle fire) produces a hit, we determine damage... which
> >is nD +D-D. That's not the same as the 2.5D for resolving a Difficult
> >Task (for example).
> 
> [I snipped the rest of Glenn's message, because, I think the above
> voids his arguments (which Marc already answered), and so I can
> say that I quoted less than 50% of the original post (not counting
> the reposted material above of course which brings my quoted
> material to original count up to about 45% (including my
> explanations of these snips.]

[I'm not going to snip anything more, as I wasn't talking about the task
roll at all, but about the damage roll, so I will reiterate my point
now. I've added enough material to more than double the original post
length, exceeding normal requirements for TML text padding.]

As you pointed out, +D-D is the same as 2d-7. Which means that _damage_
rolls equal to or less than zero are now possible. (I ask again,
rhetorically, why is there a to-hit roll?) More randomness is added to
the game, at little benefit. More complexity is added, and I don't see
the point.

Maybe somebody else does... Wouldn't it be more appropriate to simulate
additional or less damage in the *task roll*?

Critical success: Add d6 (or maybe d3) damage
Barely hit (within 1 of target number): Subtract d6 (or d3?) damage

I just don't like rules that add more complexity for little or no gain.
I would encourage Marc to make the rule +D-D rule optional, if it is
published at all.

> You know, I really ought to take out those long explanations of what I
> snipped and why.
> 
> I really ought to.

[Maybe]


*ADDENDA: Curious, I ran the numbers for D6+D-D. (same as 3d6-7)

Result   Odds
   0    16.2%
   1     9.7%
   2    11.6%
   3    12.5%
   4    12.5%
   5    11.6%
   6     9.7%
   7     6.9%
   8     4.6%
   9     2.8%
  10     1.4%
  11     0.5%

Approx 1 in 6 chance to get 0 damage, approx 1 in 6 chance to get >6
damage.


Numbers for 2d6 -D +D (same as 4d6-7)

0-	2.7
1	2.7
2	4.3
3	6.2
4	8.0
5	9.6
6	10.8
7	11.3
8	10.8
9	9.6
10	8.0
11	6.2
12	4.3
13	2.7
14	1.5
15	0.8
16	0.3
17	0.1

Approx 2.7% to get 13, 2.7% to get >13. 2.7% to get 0 or 1.

Compare to 2d6

2	2.8
3	5.6
4	8.3
5	11.1
6	13.9
7	16.7
8	13.9
9	11.1
10	8.3
11	5.6
12	2.8

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:56:41 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

SD Mooney wrote:
> 
>  Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca> wrote:
> 
> >Wouldn't it be easier to re-rate all weapon damage values up one level,
> >and note in the rules that damage is nd6-d6?
> 
> This would invalidate every weapon design as published (ie FFS2 and EA and
> CSC). I agree it's simpler but it messes with the existing published
> material... and with some of the better material at that.

I agree. My initial suggestion was ironic. Or something. :)

> >Better yet, just keep damage as it is, for if the damage turns out to be
> >0 or less, what was the point of the to hit roll? That's how it's
> >determined whether damage is applied or not... that's where the luck of
> >just being "grazed" is determined.
> 
> I can see a need for better low end resolution for the damage, but have the
> feeling that the +1D/-1D would be unwieldy. But as someone else said, I
> haven't tried this one with my players yet (unlike the new task system
> which went really well). I may well ignore it. I know that I would be
> really irritated as a player if I hit someone and then ended up with 0
> damage.

If better low end resolution is required, why not just introduce weapons
with damage ratings such as the following? (roughly ascending):

dice rolled:      d3-d3    d3     d6-d6     d6-d3      d6
Damage value:     0.5-     0.5     1-1        1-        1

Or something to that effect...

I still don't see the point of rolling extra dice just to randomize
further a damage value that is already random. Or am *I* missing
something...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:01:56 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

James Lindsay <jlindsay@direct.ca> wrote:


>On Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:02:11 -0600, Richard A. Flores wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>> You know, I really ought to take out those long explanations of what I
>> snipped and why.
>
>Yup :)

My apologies to the List, I was torqued.  I'm over it now.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:04:10 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

James Lindsay <jlindsay@direct.ca> wrote:

>OK, here's another quick question:  Is the physical damage due to exposure
>to a vacuum likely to take much longer to recover from compared to a normal
>Traveller character reduced to 000xxx?

Not from what I've read.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:10:11 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...

 
> I would even be satisfied (not happy, but satisfied) if a system were
> available to convert CT and MT ships, equipment, etc to the new rules. It
> has been suggested to make fusion guns circular PAWS in turrets - I'm not
> sure this will work. I tried designing one (assuming that the diameter has
> to be less than 4.18 to fit in the socket), and I just couldn't get any real
> performance.
 
You could aways make some data up. Seriously.  A Plasma MOunt takes
up half a turret's worth of volume, and does whatever damage at
whatever range you want. Improve it a little with TL, then more with
Fusion. Done. 

I'm not trying to give a flip answer, either. The folks that worked
on FFS2 wanted a grounding in reality and HE weapons couldn't pass
the disbelief filters. If they would have had to be made up in FFS2
you could just as well do it yourself. I suppose people could just
agree on somebody's made up HE weapons and say it's a conversion to
CT.

> the science and the fiction. I don't like the idea (and this is me) that we
> can say "We're gonna have jump drive (scientifically unsound) and
> contra-grav (anyone wanna explain this) but no other departures from
> reality. Everything else is gonna be hard sci-fi."
 
It's just a good idea because it makes it easier to keep track of
what can happen. It's a "change as few variables at a time" thing.

Besides, while j-drive is complete fantasy, plasma exists, as does
coherent light, and particle accelerators.

> Why is it that you guys can let Jump and CG slide with some handwaves (for
> the good of the game, which I agree with), but won't even consider trying to
> come up with a pseudo-science handwave for these other things? (and yes, I
> know I haven't offered any possible handwaves - because to be honest, I'm
> not very knowledgable about the science of such things).
 
Many were talked about for HE weapons. I personally wanted to get
some rules for direct powered HE weapons for things like fighters to
carry. Riding a so armed fighter into combat wouldn't be healthy
though since you'd have to get bloody close by traveller range
standards.

> not find any real fault with your arguments - its just you (my esteemed
> opponents in these debates) place more stock on science than canon, while I
> place more on canon than stock. To each his/her own :)

See my canon post, I take the historical canon first, then the rules
sets second. At least not too many ships required HE weapons in CT.
Sure, they had them, but it wasn't a "all these guys use is plasma
weapons" kinda thing. One problem with HE weapons in a system like
FFS2 is that once you can make a ship-sized weapon, you need to
consider limitations to its use. HE weapons aren't spinal mounts in
canon, for example, but easily could be in design rules to make them
(tweaked so they have some kind of reasonable range) from the ground
up. There would have to be some limit like the DE limit on lasers or
else you'd go from no HE weapons to super HE weapons :-)

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:08:42 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

James Lindsay <jlindsay@direct.ca> wrote:


>On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:30:35 -0600, Richard A. Flores wrote:
>
>> James Lindsay <jlindsay@direct.ca> wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>> >3) Players will need two additional dice that are marked differently
than
>> >   the others-- a green one for the "+D" and a red one for the "-D", for
>> >   example.
>>
>> You could just roll two dice and subtract seven (2D-7) and get the same
>> results.
>
>This wouldn't really solve much.  You would still be rolling one set of
>dice, and then rolling a second set of dice (using a different method of
>reading them other than simply adding them up) and comparing it to the
>first batch.

Ok, how about this:  add 1D to the normal damage roll, add them up, then
roll 1D that you subtract.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:14:42 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: +D-D Discussion (renamed)

 
> There is a standard nD for weapon damage... that is to say, a sword does 2D
> damage (for example). But does that guarantee that the sword's damage is
> always between 2 and 12? Is that the most (or the least that it can do?)
 
Why not just subtract n-1 from each nD roll?

So a 2D roll would be 2D-1, and 3D is 3D-2, and so forth.

The idea is that it gives a range that starts at 1 point of damage
(which is what you are after if a hit has already been determined to
happen). A nick that does less than 1 point is a miss.

(sorry if anybody already posted this idea, this is the first I've
really looked at this thread)

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:16:20 EST
From: Dedly <Dedly@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Legate wrote:

>>2) If you could store energy in other forms other that fuel would that not
make Jump Drive more Efficent?<<

As far as I know, there are no capacitors available that can hold the
incredible amount of energy required for a jump for long periods of time.

>>3) Why carry large ammounts of fuel if all you do is burn it to make a
jump.  Why not use Solar Cells to collect the energy from the nearest star,
or use another energy storage medium to hold the energy needed.<<

Solar doesn't generate enough energy, it's a "passive" energy source (I guess
you might be able to if your collection grid was planetoid size. A physicist
on the list could verify/refute this). You need something that actively
generates huge amounts of energy like fission, fusion, or matter/anti-matter
reactions.

>>4) If you use Solar Cells or a another storage medium for the energy, why
not place them in a sperate object rather than a ship.  Say a Jump Gate.

5) If you use Jump Gates, why not place them at all major worlds in the
empire.

6) If you have Jump Gates at all major worlds, then why place Jump Drive on
most cargo ships & liners at all?<<

You'd be entitled to do this as it is your universe but canon thumpers would
say that you aren't playing Traveller anymore but rather Babylon 5. =)  It
would radically alter the game, but it's your universe to alter as you see
fit.

\_/
DED

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:18:27 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing <electric-stitch@w-link.net> wrote:

>
>>3) Why carry large ammounts of fuel if all you do is burn it to make a
>>jump.  Why not use Solar Cells to collect the energy from the nearest
star,
>>or use another energy storage medium to hold the energy needed.
>>
>As far as I understand "all" of the fuel is not burned to start a jump.  A
>large quantitiy is used to open the jump field, but that field needs to be
>maintained through the entire jump.

According to current (T4 and IIRC CT) technobabble, you don't burn any of
the fuel, it is used to create and maintain the "real-space" "jump bubble".

>Now, here's an idea to help... first, you have to be able to have Jump Gate
>transfer the jump field from itself to the ship passing through. Second,
you
>have to be able to maintain the jump field. So, keep the jump drive and add
>a device to be able to use the jump field produced by the gate. You won't
>need nearly as muc fuel, but you would still need the drive. Another
>thought, keep the fuel tanks. Convert them to cargo holds, but make it so
>they could be sealed and used for fuel. This would allow the ship to be
>capable of independent jump.
>
>I think the jump gates would have to be controlled. Either by corporations
>or government.
>I can see a toll being charged to use the jump gate. Since you will
probably
>make more money from increased cargo.
>
What's all this talk about Jump Gates?  Is there a book or supplement that I
don't know about?  Or, has Bab5 invaded the TML?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 09:36:00 -0800
From: "Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing" <electric-stitch@w-link.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

- -----Original Message-----
From: Richard A. Flores <cybernot@gte.net>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Wednesday, January 28, 1998 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive



>According to current (T4 and IIRC CT) technobabble, you don't burn any of
>the fuel, it is used to create and maintain the "real-space" "jump bubble".
>

I don't have the T4 stuff, I play MT. MT is a little different the CT as far
as how the Jump Drives work. At least that's what I remember. I don't recall
reading anywhere (Keep in mind I only have MT and books 0-3 of CT) about how
much and when the fuel is used at what time.

>What's all this talk about Jump Gates?  Is there a book or supplement that
I
>don't know about?  Or, has Bab5 invaded the TML?
>

Jump gates came from the original posted idea from Legate. I don't watch
Bab5, so I don't totally know what the jump gates Intale. I don't believe
there are any books out on the subject.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:43:39 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: +D-D Discussion (renamed)

CardSharks wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 98-01-28 07:50:38 EST, you write:
> 
> <<
>  IMHO, totally unnecessary. What I think I see here is having to roll a set
>  of dice to see how many dice I have to roll for damage, which seems
>  pointless. So every time someone takes damage someone has to roll an extra
>  set of dice? Is that really what's being said, or have I misunderstood?
> 
>   >>
> You have mis-understood. I don't know where you got the idea that you roll to
> see how many dice you roll.
> 
> Marc
> 
> There is a standard nD for weapon damage... that is to say, a sword does 2D
> damage (for example). But does that guarantee that the sword's damage is
> always between 2 and 12? Is that the most (or the least that it can do?)
> 
> I think that there is a strong argument that a sword swing (or other weapon
> damage) even at this point in the process (after the fact of hitting has been
> determined) the damage could still be "just a nick" or "wow! what a hit!"

I agree with your intention, Marc, but not the implementation.

The additional complexity of adding one die, subtracting another, is a
bit much for a damage roll. Wouldn't it be more appropriate to simulate
the "wow! what a hit" or "just a nick" in the *task roll*?

The person attacking then knows by his task roll whether he has made a
great hit, or just a nick, and only *one* extra die need be rolled.

Critical success: +d6 damage
Just a nick (within 1 point of task roll, or some other easily figured
criteria): -d6

(or d3, for both or either of above)


Just a humble suggestion, ;-)
Glenn Hoppe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:05:10 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

The quoted parts of post is a good example of why snipping a lot out makes
it harder to follow a thread, not easier.  Now I know where all this talk of
Jump Gates came from.

Dedly <Dedly@aol.com> wrote:


>Legate wrote:
>
>>>2) If you could store energy in other forms other that fuel would that
not
>make Jump Drive more Efficent?<<
>
>As far as I know, there are no capacitors available that can hold the
>incredible amount of energy required for a jump for long periods of time.
>
>>>3) Why carry large ammounts of fuel if all you do is burn it to make a
>jump.  Why not use Solar Cells to collect the energy from the nearest star,
>or use another energy storage medium to hold the energy needed.<<
>
>Solar doesn't generate enough energy, it's a "passive" energy source (I
guess
>you might be able to if your collection grid was planetoid size. A
physicist
>on the list could verify/refute this). You need something that actively
>generates huge amounts of energy like fission, fusion, or
matter/anti-matter
>reactions.
>
>>>4) If you use Solar Cells or a another storage medium for the energy, why
>not place them in a sperate object rather than a ship.  Say a Jump Gate.
>
>5) If you use Jump Gates, why not place them at all major worlds in the
>empire.
>
>6) If you have Jump Gates at all major worlds, then why place Jump Drive on
>most cargo ships & liners at all?<<
>
>You'd be entitled to do this as it is your universe but canon thumpers
would
>say that you aren't playing Traveller anymore but rather Babylon 5. =)  It
>would radically alter the game, but it's your universe to alter as you see
>fit.

I don't see the inclusion of Jump Gates as anti-canon.  Then again, I don't
have any problems with Fusion+ either.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:15:15 -0500
From: "John Watts" <jwatts@catt.com>
Subject: Re: Contacting IG by phone

hmmmm sounds like I should keep my submission ideas and not send it to
them.

Has anyone actually been paid by these people yet?

John



It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that my thoughts acquire speed.
My hands begin to shake.  The shakes are a warning.
It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 09:20:00 -0800
From: "GILLESPIE, BIRD" <bird.gillespie@dfsgl.com>
Subject: me 2 : Empress Wave

     I, too, have asked about this once or twice, with no response.  I 
     would really appreciate some input, its keeping me up at nights (well, 
     not really).
     
     bird
     worship tong

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:56:29 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

James Lindsay <jlindsay@direct.ca> wrote:

>OK, here's another quick question:  Is the physical damage due to exposure
>to a vacuum likely to take much longer to recover from compared to a normal
>Traveller character reduced to 000xxx?

Not from what I've read.  In fact, except for the superficial bruising, the
recovery time should be quite rapid.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 09:51:03 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re:  canon and HE weapons

>I don't know the reasons these weren't accomidated in (and since)
>TNE. [Fusion weapons in spacecraft, that is.[

Because, if you have a pulse travelling at a few tens of km/s - aboutt
the most you can expect from a plasma weapon as described - it is *never*
going to hit a spacecraft at more than a few thousand kilometers. *Never*.
By the time the pulse gets there the target will have evaded kilometers
from its predicted position.

You can suggest that fusion guns (in particular) have pulses travelling
at thousands of km/s, but then you end up with a very different weapon - 
almost no mass in the pulse, for a given energy, for example, so no "splash"
or any of the classic effects.

For those who miss them - one possibility (at TL-13+) is short-ranged
non-grav-focus x-ray lsaers; which can be pretty nasty. 

(And I'm still thinking about rules for the "fast" fusion pulse...)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:13:11 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing <electric-stitch@w-link.net> wrote:


Richard A. Flores <cybernot@gte.net> wrote

>>According to current (T4 and IIRC CT) technobabble, you don't burn any of
>>the fuel, it is used to create and maintain the "real-space" "jump
bubble".
>>
>
>I don't have the T4 stuff, I play MT. MT is a little different the CT as
far
>as how the Jump Drives work. At least that's what I remember. I don't
recall
>reading anywhere (Keep in mind I only have MT and books 0-3 of CT) about
how
>much and when the fuel is used at what time.
>
>>What's all this talk about Jump Gates?  Is there a book or supplement that
>I
>>don't know about?  Or, has Bab5 invaded the TML?
>>
>
>Jump gates came from the original posted idea from Legate. I don't watch
>Bab5, so I don't totally know what the jump gates Intale. I don't believe
>there are any books out on the subject.

Would anyone be interested in one?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:50:48 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: +D-D Discussion (renamed)

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/28/98 05:50 PM

<<
You have mis-understood. I don't know where you got the idea that you roll
to
see how many dice you roll.
Marc
>>
Aha! Thanks for the explanation. I assumed that the +D-D applied to the
number of dice rolled, which the example makes clear is not what you
intended.

[snip]

<<
Frankly, here's how it plays out with the players:
[snip]
(alt 1) No way I'll take less damage. Forget it.
(alt 2) Sure, I'll try it.
>>

That makes it sound optional, which is what some have asked for. I don't
like the +D-D idea myself, and wouldn't use it (I think the same about half
dice, and I don't use those either).

Hmm. That looks rude, which is not my intent, so please let me clarify by
analogy: I don't like broccoli, and I don't eat them. That doesn't mean I
want to stop stores carrying broccoli, or stop other people eating
broccoli, or think any the worse of broccoli farmers.

Andy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:15:30 -0500 (EST)
From: GAHUNTER <Gahunter@cris.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

On Wed, 28 Jan 1998, Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing wrote:

> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard A. Flores <cybernot@gte.net>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
> Date: Wednesday, January 28, 1998 9:24 AM
> Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
> 
> 
> 
> >According to current (T4 and IIRC CT) technobabble, you don't burn any of
> >the fuel, it is used to create and maintain the "real-space" "jump bubble".
> >
> 
> I don't have the T4 stuff, I play MT. MT is a little different the CT as far
> as how the Jump Drives work. At least that's what I remember. I don't recall
> reading anywhere (Keep in mind I only have MT and books 0-3 of CT) about how
> much and when the fuel is used at what time.
> 
> >What's all this talk about Jump Gates?  Is there a book or supplement that
> I
> >don't know about?  Or, has Bab5 invaded the TML?
> >
> 
> Jump gates came from the original posted idea from Legate. I don't watch
> Bab5, so I don't totally know what the jump gates Intale. I don't believe
> there are any books out on the subject.

I do believe they were covered under the FF&S (first) book... or was that
warpgate... who knows the concept still applies... 

Guy Hunter
(gahunter@cris.com)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #55
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Wednesday, January 28 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 056



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator
Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...
re: Empress Wave
Re: +D-D Damage (new! with tables![snipped])
Nanotechnology info on the Web
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
T4 items for auction on eBay
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Empress Wave
+D -D (was Re: Time of Death for Spacing)
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Strength /Dexterity in Gun Shooting
Re: Initial colonization considerations
Covenant Class Colony Ship
re: dates in UWPs?
Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Initial colonization considerations
Canon Thoughts

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 09:26:14 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator

At 06:47 PM 1/27/98 -0600, markn wrote:
>> << >3) Be Win 95 compatible.
>>  I'd say DOS compatible, myself. Windows can run DOS, Mac can run DOS, OS/2
>>  can run DOS, Amiga can run DOS, Linix can run DOS, and DOS can run DOS.
>>  Writing in DOS still gives you maximum coverage.
>>   >>
>> DOS compatible and Win95 compatible are not the same thing. Making it DOS
>> compatible just cripples it. Make it Win95 compatible.,
>I have to take issue with this.  First, micro$oft did make great 
>efforts to have quite a bit of 'compatiblity' for DOS in win95 
>(although I'm sure the old adage about DOS not shipping until <insert 
>application> won't run, still holds true).  And the original point 
>about everything emulating a DOS environment is valid.

I would still encourage Java work.  There are an awful lot of JVMs out
there, and it has at least the promise of letting you do a GUI that looks
right to all of your software users.  There are speed issues, and
availability issues, but I have so far been able to run identical Java 1.1
code on my Linux box under X, my Win p5 PC at work, and my Mac at home, and
all of them looked acceptable.

Scott

Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:47:48 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...

Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no> wrote:

>Simply beacuse it isn't worth the hassle. No know Science Fiction show
>uses Plasma/Fusion guns, or KKM for that matter. Its all laserlike
>graphics. If you want to sell a game to youngsters today the game has to
>have a ST, B5, Star Wars flauver, and then fusion guns uneassecary. The
>game is unfortuanlly not targeted for the old fans, but at the teenagers
>out there.

Starship Troopers has plasma weapons ;-)
Babylon 5 uses plasma weapons (Earthforce Sourcebook pg80 describes Pulse
Batteries as such).

Albeit not a Sci-Fi show, KK weapons were extensive shown in the late
80s/early90s in the graphic animations for SDI.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:53:09 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Empress Wave

ASlack@synetics.co.uk wrote:

>I hear this topic has been speculated on a lot in the TML before I joined.
>Would some kind soul email me the speculations, or let me know where to
>look in the TML archives? This has been driving me nuts since I got TNE.

Me too... We may see it in GURPS Traveller.

However, you'll probably get the following responses.

1) Random speculation <common>.

2) I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you and eat you to dispose of
the evidence. <Harold ;-) >

3) Silence <Anyone involved with TNE's writing ;-) >

The Truth is Out There...

'Truth? You can't handle the Truth'

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:51:24 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: +D-D Damage (new! with tables![snipped])

Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca> wrote:


>Richard A. Flores wrote:
>
>[snippage of the part of the post that Richard is behind, yet strangely
>later no longer seems to be]
>
I wasn't advocating either way, just offering a suggestion designed to point
out the same thing your tables did.  Namely:
>> >The probability of results for +D-D and 2D6-7 are exactly the same.
>> >The only difference is in what numbers come up on each individual dice.
>> >
>> >so Marc's nd6+d6-d6 formula can be collapsed down to (n+2)d6-7 and...

[snip]

>[I'm not going to snip anything more, as I wasn't talking about the task
>roll at all, but about the damage roll, so I will reiterate my point
>now. I've added enough material to more than double the original post
>length, exceeding normal requirements for TML text padding.]
>
>As you pointed out, +D-D is the same as 2d-7. Which means that _damage_
>rolls equal to or less than zero are now possible. (I ask again,
>rhetorically, why is there a to-hit roll?) More randomness is added to
>the game, at little benefit. More complexity is added, and I don't see
>the point.
>
>Maybe somebody else does... Wouldn't it be more appropriate to simulate
>additional or less damage in the *task roll*?
>
>Critical success: Add d6 (or maybe d3) damage
>Barely hit (within 1 of target number): Subtract d6 (or d3?) damage
>
>I just don't like rules that add more complexity for little or no gain.
>I would encourage Marc to make the rule +D-D rule optional, if it is
>published at all.
>
>*ADDENDA: Curious, I ran the numbers for D6+D-D. (same as 3d6-7)
>
[snipped table]
>
>Approx 1 in 6 chance to get 0 damage, approx 1 in 6 chance to get >6
>damage.
>
>Numbers for 2d6 -D +D (same as 4d6-7)
>
[snipped table]
>
>Approx 2.7% to get 13, 2.7% to get >13. 2.7% to get 0 or 1.
>
>Compare to 2d6
>
[snipped table]

You start out a thread and then others add stuff that doesn't relate and the
next thing you know, it's not about what you wanted to talk about.  :-)  My
original point in pointing out that +D-D = +2D-7 was exactly what your
tables showed.  Marc said that +2D-7 wasn't as intuitive, but I think he's
wrong.  The curves are the same, and to me I think +2D-7 is quite
illustrative of the point.  If I offended you personally, I am sorry.  That
was not my intent.  My intent was to get the thread back to what it was
about when you started it.  The way the proposed new damage system will
work.

BTW, FWIIW, I agree with you, there is little to be gained by the system
Marc advocated.  If it is incorporated, I will not use it.  I liked your
suggestion of a critical hit/oops system.  It makes more sense (that is it
is more intuitive).  Although, I think a critical with a FGMP should do more
extra damage that a critical with a knife, so just adding +D or +1/2D is
probably not the answer I will use in my campaign.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:11:00 EST
From: Dedly <Dedly@aol.com>
Subject: Nanotechnology info on the Web

If any of you are interested in what's going on in nanotechnology these
days......

www.nanothinc.com

They're trying to be an all-encompassing resource on nanotechnology. Although
this industry is in its infancy, there's some really interesting things going
on. 

Regarding the site itself: It helps to have a high speed modem as there are
alot of graphics. They also play with a bit of shockwave so it would help to
have that plug-in as well.

\_/
DED

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:21:04 PST
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Said "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

<The quoted parts of post is a good example of why snipping a lot out 
makes it harder to follow a thread, not easier.  Now I know where all 
this talk of Jump Gates came from.>

>>>4) If you use Solar Cells or a another storage medium for the energy, 
why not place them in a sperate object rather than a ship.  Say a Jump 
Gate.
5) If you use Jump Gates, why not place them at all major worlds in the 
empire.
6) If you have Jump Gates at all major worlds, then why place Jump Drive 
on most cargo ships & liners at all?>>>

<I don't see the inclusion of Jump Gates as anti-canon.  Then again, I 
don't have any problems with Fusion+ either.>


I could picture Jump Gates as having been a different means of movement 
between systems, kind of something that was an artifact.  However, there 
aren't anymore jump gates anywhere because the Virus got a hold of 'em.  
Then they became Vampire Gates that ate any ship going into them....  So 
Norris caused them all to be destroyed...;->

Or not!

Greg
The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:31:17 -0700
From: Chris Griffen <cgriffen@cisco.com>
Subject: T4 items for auction on eBay

Travellers,

I've put up almost all my T4 books for auction on eBay. If you haven't
bought the T4 books and you want to get them at *way* below cover prices,
chances are you can pick them up cheap this way.

I've got two listings:

Marc Miller's Traveller signed hardcover at:

http://iguana.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5128603

And a set of books including Milieu 0, Psionic Institutes, Fire, Fusion and
Steel, Emperor's Vehicles and Naval Architect's Manual at:

http://komodo.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5129325

If you pick the set up at or near the minimum bid, you'll get all five
books at somewhere between $8-10 per book.

Happy bidding!

Best,

Chris Griffen


- --------------------------------------------------------------
Christopher Griffen                      Phone: (408) 527-7189
Cisco Systems, Inc.                      Fax:   (408) 527-0452
NMBU Technical Publications

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:49:07 -0800
From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <schoon@aimnet.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Legate <legate@futureone.com> wrote:

>2) If you could store energy in other forms other that fuel would that not
>make Jump Drive more Efficent?

Yes, however keep in mind that it has to be dumped into the jump grid at a
fairly rapid rate, and storage mediums other than fuel tend to be quite
bulky.

>3) Why carry large ammounts of fuel if all you do is burn it to make a
>jump.  Why not use Solar Cells to collect the energy from the nearest star,
>or use another energy storage medium to hold the energy needed.

This could take quite a while to accumulate, and you still have the storage
problem.

>4) If you use Solar Cells or a another storage medium for the energy, why
>not place them in a sperate object rather than a ship.  Say a Jump Gate.

As I understand it, the jump grid must be imbedded in, and surrounding,
the object which is actually jumping; not in something else.

>5) If you use Jump Gates, why not place them at all major worlds in the
>empire.

I don't think these would work for the reasons above.

I think that the rest of the post is reduced to an intellectual exercise
unless you wish to allow for something like this in your own universe. This
actually smacks of Fading Suns...


Schoon

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:40:36 -0700
From: Chris Griffen <cgriffen@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Empress Wave

Andy Slack wrote:

>I hear this topic has been speculated on a lot in the TML before I joined.
>Would some kind soul email me the speculations, or let me know where to
>look in the TML archives? This has been driving me nuts since I got TNE.
>(And if anyone listening has influence over whether the closing-down-TNE
>supplement by Dave ever gets published, I'd buy it for sure).

Well, if you haven't read the TNE books, Regency Sourcebook and Survival
Margin, that's where the most clues are available. There's a lot of
information there, most of it must be read between the lines.

For some speculation, I invite you to visit my TNE Conspiracy Theories page
to see what TNE aficionados are speculating about some of TNE's unsolved
mysteries. My page is at:

http://www.best.com/~cgriffen/traveller/deneb.shtml

Click the "CAMPAIGN" button and follow the "Conspiracy Theories" link. LMK
what you think.

Best,

Chris Griffen


- --------------------------------------------------------------
Christopher Griffen                      Phone: (408) 527-7189
Cisco Systems, Inc.                      Fax:   (408) 527-0452
NMBU Technical Publications

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:15:25 -0600
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: +D -D (was Re: Time of Death for Spacing)

>I'd say include it as an optional rule, IMHO.  It is still rather awkward
>to use compared to the old method...
>
>Old method: Roll a number of dice and add them together
>
>New method: Roll a number of dice and add them together,
>            Then roll two additional dice (+D -D) and work out the result,
>           *Then* subtract the result of the "+D -D" from the total of the
>               first batch of dice
>
>That's an extra two steps.


Ahh. I see now. Thank you, Mr. Lindsay, for reiterating the rule in
question (I missed the original post, just rejoining the list).

My opinion (I assume that is why it was posted to the list, for our
opinions. If not, I apologize to Mr. Miller, and will shut up in the
future): I wouldn't use this rule. It complicates matters, without adding
much to the game. First of all, I don't see how it's different than just
adding one die to the original number of dice and the subtracting one die
from *that* total. Secondly, I assume that this is meant to give damage
results of 0 or less. I don't like that -- if a weapon hits, it should do
damage. How a character is affected by the damage is more of an END task, I
would think. (To ignore piddling damage, END, Difficult) :-)

I dunno. Personally, I like damage that is somehow related to the hit task
(so that the better you hit, the more damage you do). Of course, that has
nothing to do with Traveller. :-)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:14:25 -0600
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

>so Marc's nd6+d6-d6 formula can be collapsed down to (n+2)d6-7 and...
>
>Which is confusing and non-intuitive,
>
>as is collapsing nD6 +D6 - D6 to n+1 D6 - D6.
>
>Which is also not intuitive.


Umm, I don't understand this. I get back, and look what I miss.

nD6 +D -D?

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 98 19:22 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Strength /Dexterity in Gun Shooting

In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19980127134543.37e7be66@pop.uky.edu>

Harold,

> Solution 'C': Use Dexterity but include weapon recoil as a modifier which
> can itself be reduced or eliminated by higher Strength.  (i.e. Wyatt has a
> Dexterity of '6' and a handgun skill of '4'.  The handgun he attempting to
> fire has a single shot recoil of '3', and he is attempting to fire four
> times.  This yields a recoil modifier of '12'.  However, Wyatt has a
> Strength of 'A', which reduces the recoil modifier to '2'.  Thus we get: (6
> + 4) - 2 = 8  Wyatt must roll an '8' or less on the required number of dice
> to hit with each shot.

Something like this would be my preferred option (although I'm not sure about 
accuracy being affected by shots you haven't fired yet...IMHO it should be 10 
for the first three and 8 for the last).
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:33:22 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Initial colonization considerations

On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Sean Bayan Schoonmaker wrote:

> >I assumed that every woman would bear, on the average, one child (that
> >would survive into adulthood) every 5 years and that they would bear
> >children from the ages of 20 to 49.
> 
> Yow ! 6 kids per female ! Have you ever tried convincing a woman to go
> through childbirth 6 times, no matter how long between births. Also, 49 is
> pretty old to be having children. I'd say a more reasonable range might be
> 20-36 at one child per 4 years, but even that might be pushing it.
> 

Uhhh...the woman who couldn't be convinced that having a large family is
good won't be selected to go. The preferred age spread and birth frequency
are _very_ temporal things in any culture, and a colony is going to be
composed of people who want large families. 


Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:14:44 -0600
From: "Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: Covenant Class Colony Ship

I have gotten several requests for the details of this design (rather than
the quick synopsis I posted earlier)...so here it is (a few changes have
been made, as well):

Covenant class colony ship
Designed by Seraphim Industries, inc

Statistics
    Tons: 1,000,000std (USL Close Structure)
    Volume: 14,000,000m3
    Mass (L/C): 2,783,637t/2,671,465t
    Dimensions: 523.3m x388.7m x89.7m
    Size: 12
    Crew: 1500/1564 (robots)
    Passengers High/Med: 0/600
    Passengers Low: 4000
    Troops/Science: 0/0
    Frozen Watch: 0
    Cargo: 8,000std
    Cost: 537,628.344MCr
    Maintenance Points: 134,083
    TL: 9

Electronics
    Controls (/Ar:100[1000]): Computer, high automation. 15xComp (CM:.5
CP:2.0). Bridge (/Ar:80[500]).
    Communications: 1xRadio (1,000AU, 0.2MW). 1xLaser (1,000AU, 0MW).
    Sensors: 1xPas. Scanner (13.5 [16mkm], 0.2MW Sci). 1xPas. Tracker (13.5
[16mkm], 0.1MW Sci). 1xAEMS (11.5 [.5mkm], 10MW Sci).
    Survey/Science: None.
    ECM: None.
    Signatures: Vis: 1.5, IR: 0.5, Act: 1.0, Neut: 1.0, Grav: -2

Performance
    0 Jump
    1/1 Maneuver (/Bussard:0MW, 103.3G-hrs)
    0/0 Contra Grav
    n/a Atmosphere
    0 Power (/Fusion:2050MW, 4yr fuel)
    0 Batteries
    861,826.9 Fuel (With purifcation for 87.9std in 1hr).
    1564/200/200/4000/0 Accomodations (/Ar: 80 [500])
    600 Life Support (/Type:EnduranceB, /Ar:80 [500])
    0 G-Comp
    1000 ESA (/ROD:650)
    20 [100] Armor, 59 Structure

Weaponry
    None

Features
    50xAirlock
    10xElectronic Shops (/Ar:80 [500])
    10xVehicle Shops (/Ar:80 [500])
    10xLaboratories (/Ar:80 [500])
    10xSickbays (/Ar:80 [500])
    10xGyms (/Ar:80 [500])
    1xShips Locker (/Ar:80 [500])
    1xEmbryo Storage (25std, /Ar:80 [500])
    5xFull Galley (/Cap:100 /Ar:80 [500])

Small Craft
    8xDocking Ring (100std landers)
    8xJettison Bay (5000std colony bases)
    40xJettison Bay (2std planetary orbital probes)
    40xJettison Bay (2std planetary lander probes)
    10xJettison Bay (2std system probes)
    10xJettison Bay (2std solar probes)

Backups
    Drives: None
    Screens: None
    Communications: 10xRadio (1,000AU). 10xLaser (1,000AU).
    Sensors: 10xPas. Scanner (13.5 [16mkm] Sci). 10xPas. Tracker (13.5
[16mkm] Sci). 10xAEMS (11.5 [.5mkm], Sci).
    Survey/Science: None
    ECM: None
    Power & Fuel: 2050MW Fusion.

Crew
    1xMnvr, 1043xEngr, 242xMain, 214xCmnd, 52xStew, 12xMed

I changed the following:
    By lowering the thrust, I got more G-hours...makes sense :) The end
result is, of course, the same.
    Added probe craft
    Upped the life support and quarters from 40 people to 600 - 200 in small
staterooms and 400 in dual-occupancy large staterooms (married couples).
    Upped the low berths to 4000.
    Added "bunks" for the "crew" - robots. These bunks represent the work
areas and storage areas.
    Reduced cargo to 8000tons - 2 tons per colonist. That should be
sufficient, since the colony palettes would have a great deal of material on
them.
    Placed the colony palettes in jettison bays to save volume - since they
are one-shot drop units.
    Added a small purifcation plant to purify the fusion plant fuel.
    Gave the fusion plant a small (4 yr) internal fuel supply, to use when
the scoops are off.
    Added a backup power plant.

I discarded the idea of drop tanks - since then it'll have fuel to
decelerate at the other end. Thus, its speed in fusion rocket mode is:

    1.0G x 9.81m/s x 3600s x 103.3hr = 3,648,142m/s, or around 1.2% the
speed of light. That should be fast enough to kick in the ramscoop.

If anyone wants to see the actual Excel 5.0 spreadsheet, email me and I'll
email it to you...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:11:47 EST
From: TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
Subject: re: dates in UWPs?

>>Put it [the date notation] in the extended data set (as posted
>
>>by Marc) as a single (hex) code eg M0 is 0, etc and expand
>>as new milieus arise. This removes the problem of linking to
>>the dating system and adding in a -tve for Milieus prior to
>>M0. I mean, an Ancients set would otherwise be -200000!

I didn't think bout that. ; )  Well actually...  i doubt that fits w/ my
concept... "Hey Fred, this place hasn't been visited since the Ancients."  Is
that an "Ancient" star chart? ; )

>>
>Perhaps a simple logarithmic notation.  Something like:
>code
>#    Years since last survey
>0                0 to 3 years
>1                3 to 7 years
>2                7 to 20 years
>3              20 to 55 years
>4              55 to 148 years
>5            148 to 403 years
>6            403 to 1,097 years
>7         1,097 to 2,981 years
>8         2,981 to 8,103 years
>9         8,103 to 22,026 years
>A      22,026 to 59,874 years
>B      59,874 to 162,755 years
>C    162,755 to 442,413 years
>D    442,413 to 1,202,604 years
>E 1,202,604 to 3,269,017 years
>F 3,269,017 to 8,886,111 years

Won't there need to be a notation for the "baseline" date, though?  Because
time is continually advancing. What if u find an old star chart?  time in the
top left corner?   : ) Of course it could always be "FS" and "SS" for First
Survey and Second Survey.

Sounds pretty good otherwise.

>
>This single hexadecimal # would give us a time scale beyond anyone's
>estimates of possible dates on useful intelligence.
>
>>Also, I'd argue for adding in the space for the economics extension from
>>Pocket Empires.
>
>Sounds good to me.

Me 2. This is a necessity if theres to be any consistency.  It's not like
those huge WBH profiles.  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:11:56 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Thoughts on Jump Drive

>I have been thinking about Jump Drive lately.  So here are a few of my
>thoughts on the subject.
>
>1) Jump Drive consume large amounts of Fuel for the energy to perfom a
>Jump.

Not just for teh jump.  FFS2 says that the hydrogen is used to make a jump
"bubble" around the ship to keep jumpspace out.  Its not good for your health.

>
>2) If you could store energy in other forms other that fuel would that not
>make Jump Drive more Efficent?
>
>3) Why carry large ammounts of fuel if all you do is burn it to make a
>jump.  Why not use Solar Cells to collect the energy from the nearest star,
>or use another energy storage medium to hold the energy needed.

You need to make and maintain a  "jump bubble."  See above. : )

>
>4) If you use Solar Cells or a another storage medium for the energy, why
>not place them in a sperate object rather than a ship.  Say a Jump Gate.

TNEs FFS had stargates and other more appropriate things, if u can find it.
If u can't i might be able to scrounge one up and send it to u.

>So far this is what I have.  One of the reasons I posted this is because I
>want feedback on this system.  The other is I am planing to run a Babylon 5
>based campaign using the MT rules.

MT?  Hmm...  I'd suggest the Babylon Project but that might not be an option
(the Earth Force Sourcebook is very good...  damn... i have no intentions of
using it but its very good to have for a B5 fan).  The ship combat is a bit
too simple for my tastes but it is vector based (for reaction drives).  Grav
drives used by the Minbari up can transfer their momentum into course
changes... kinda like aerodynamics.
    But if u want to stick to MT...  i'd recomment TNE's Fire Fusion and Steel
(and TNE! ; ) ).  The Alternate tech has keyhole drives (for jump points) and
subspace (for B5 Hyperspace).  B5s hyperspace is a fluid medium (and is pretty
weird... like Star Control 2's hyperspace.  I like it) not the static
traveller "jumpspace." 
    If u want to make these ships and have Microsloth Excel, u might want to
try a rather excellent spreadsheet that can include all of these exotic ftl
drives (including stutterwarp) and even w/ spin capsule hulls, (the EA Omega
Destroyers), spun hulls (B5 itself) and many other goodies.  



Gary

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 14:15:10 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Initial colonization considerations

John,

Apart from Andrew's ship I am interested in this inhanced growth rate from
MT, but I do not have any MT books. Could you forward a breif discription of
this by private mail?

Thanks in advance

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: John R. Snead <jsnead@netcom.com>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Wednesday, January 28, 1998 3:52 AM
Subject: Re: Initial colonization considerations


<Snip>
>
>In MT at least, artificial womb technology existed at TL 10, and you could
>even grow the kids at 10x the normal speed, so they would only have to be
>in the things for 27 days.
>
>
>-John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:11:53 EST
From: TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
Subject: Canon Thoughts

Canon, to me only really refers to the background and history and not the
rules since, by definition, CT was very simple and not designed to be a psuedo
science manual like the SoM or FFS. 

>Take High Guard and CT as an example. We all know that in Traveller
>the peace is maintained by squadrons of huge Battleships, or
>Battleriders (a priciple source of debate in the Navy). *That* is
>canon. HG, on the other hand while frequently refered to as canon,

Actually... did anyone figure out how to make BRs that work?  Anyway around
that grapple thing?  From Fighting Ships of the Shattered Imperium, it looked
like BRs went inside huge hangers, but that would make a damned big tender,
no?  I know other places contradict this in pictures...

>has optimum military designs that are far from Canon (though closer
>to the BR camp than the BB camp)---HG tends to support the smallest
>ships you can wrap around a decent meson gun as I recall. Weren't
>TCS competitions won by computer designs that found this optimum
>design stratagy?

And if someone gets some BRs and BBs made, we need to fight a lil (more than a
lil actually) so we can see if the current rules support the BR theory. 

>So we have a tech rule set that makes ships that are so much better
>than the ships published that it is hard to belive that they would
>get made. I would tweak the tech rules in this case.
>
>TNE published the good ole ships we knew and loved, but the design
>systems in BL and FF&S made all of them really dumb since they
>allowed for *far* superior designs. The obvious example is big
>lasers. Again, what is canon? And I'd say that the ships we know are
>Canon, and the tech rules should bend to fit it better.

Well the whole problem comes that CT didn't have a comprehensive "technical
architecture manual." The old ships might not make sense.  TNE Came around and
tried to do this.  There were some hard decisions to make.  The old ships were
just put in to be that... representations of the old ships.  They probably had
a choice on to redesign and just keep the names (being "good" designs) or keep
them as close to *historically* canon as possible, whether that made sense or
not.  Of course, since alot of the old weapons were history, they should have
redesigned, IMO, but I wasn't there and am probably missing something.    
T4 is here and has avoided the problem by backtracking 1200 years.  

<Low birth snippo> (they're interesting, but i have yet to have a pc who
crawls in     one, regardless of the survivability).

>I'd say that the text background takes precedence. A bunch of
>changes in FFS2 were to make the design system produce results that
>are more consistant with Canon. HE weapons got hosed, but all
>the parties involved actually really want them, so there is active
>work to figure out some way to jazz them up without really wreaking
>everything else---all this stuff is tied together. I think that KKMs
>are important for just this reason---text background says nukes are
>a no-no for civies. Of course being a rock-thrower I'd retcon the
>rules of war to say "weapons of mass destruction" or somesuch :-)
>

   Why should missles be anything but no-no for civies?  Just because its
canon?  I'd hesitate to say that.  Maybe for Corps and Megacorps but not for
your average Joe Freetrader.  Giving Joe Freetrader KKMs means he can really
screw up his competitors and a yacht or luxury liner but any military ship
will laugh at him.  Who in their right Mercantile 3I mind is going to allow a
"Free Trader Buster" or "Civvie Killer?"  : )  Maybe for use against (or by)
"pirates," but then this will really sidetrack.  

>That said, making stuff match reality where ever possible is good
>simply because it is a set of assumptions that we know are
>internally consistant. Anyway, I think that the above is worth
>thinking about when discussing Canon/canon.
>
>A final note on HE weapons---if you want them and don't care that
>they don't work---MAKE THEM UP :-) The fact that (new) published
>designs do have them will make them even stranger weapons...

Well this can be a problem for some people.  Me...  i don't like em, so their
absense doesn't bother me in the slightest.  I know there are those who do,
though.  I should think its perfect material for a magazine article but it's
appropriateness in a rule book is dubious, to me, especially if space is
limited.  

Gary

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #56
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Wednesday, January 28 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 057



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Dates in UWPs
the Empress Wave (and Me 2)
Geeks and nightmares
bootstrapping
Re: Death and Dying
Re: Thuddd 9
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: +D-D Discussion (renamed)
Re: +D-D Discussion (renamed)
Xenomimesis
Re: Initial colonization considerations
Re:  Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: WHAT!? (on-topic, final message)
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Freelance Traveller - Feedback requested
Re: Canon Thoughts
Re: +D-D Damage (new! with tables!)
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Freelance Traveller - Feedback requested
Re: Xenomimesis
Re: +D-D Discussion (renamed)
Re: +D-D Discussion (renamed)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 14:59:14 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Dates in UWPs

>Probably the easiest way to encode UWP era is in the trade codes:

[snip discussion of where to standardize placement of milieu info in UWPs]


Stop! Wait! Hold it!

The era of the survey has no place in the UWPs of individual worlds.
Within a given database (or list, which is basically a database) there must
be consistency as to what era the data covers.  I have seen a couple of
examples of more than one era (TNE and 1107) in one table and it's quite
confusing.

No.  I advocate no mixing of eras within a listing, therefore the entire
listing has an "Era Code" or the era integrated into the title/intro/page
header.

It's also a fact that every time you change the UWP format there are a
bunch of sector files that are no longer current (which really doesn't
matter until someone writes a program using the "standard" sector file
format).  Change this format only when there is a *real* need.

Pete


Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"Groats!?!  I *hate* Groats!"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:26:04 EST
From: TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
Subject: the Empress Wave (and Me 2)

    Well there is no official answer.  What we know is its an EM phenomenon
coming out from the galactic core.  It's ripping up Zhodani (psionic) society.
Its percieved by psions to be a woman holding a staff (which may be
technological) w/ a city and a couple of suns behind her.  It's a "pregnant"
moment, frozen in time.  
    It moves at the speed of light and will eventually go through the space of
the former Third Imperium.
    The cause?  Well its been insinuated that even in a few thousand years it
won't be known what caused the Empress Wave.  Apparently it'll cause a
"flowering" of psionics and pretty much completely change the societies it
touches, human, alien and in between. : )  In the meantime, it's wrecking Zho
society and will make any existing psions reach for Migrane Drug(to put it
mildly), if they don't turn into a vegetable.
    There's a good unofficial description (along w/ many of TNEs mysteries) at
Chris Griffens Excellent Domain of Deneb web pages at:
http://www.best.com/~cgriffen/traveller/campaign/conspiracy.html under "Avery
and the Eighth Core Expidition."  

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:55:57 -0500
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Geeks and nightmares

>Well said, Merrick! My first instinct at a reply was "Whoa...chill, dude!
>No more caffeine for you!" (Speaking of course, as every Republican's
>nightmare...a heavily armed liberal ;-)

   No, no.  You wouldn't cause most Republicans to bat an eyelash.  
You are Chuck Schumer's nightmare. :-)

   Ob Traveller:  It's the serious Victim Disarment fans in my gaming group
who get miffed when I tell them they can't pack TL15 Gauss pistols on TL 7
worlds with strict law levels.




- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of a free 
state, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be 
infringed.  -- http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:34:39 -0500
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: bootstrapping

>Ob Traveller ;-) Consider the militia movement on some backwater
>planet... they have automatic slug throwers, even a few explosives
>and some light armored ground vehicles. They intend to keep the
>TL-15 Imperium from squashing their rights? If they can't put up a
>real fight they should probably just shoot at paper and not play
>make belive, I'd think (that or try to get some grav tanks and
>spacecraft).

    You don't shoot down space craft, but you can shoot an unarmored
trooper who strays off, take his better gun, use to to shoot another,
better armored trooper, take his gun, and so on.
    This is the logic used by the USA when, during WWII, it airdropped in
Liberator pistols into occupied France.  These were single shot .45 pistols.

    There are mil-history buffs who can lecture you on long standing LIC
wars were folks several tech levels lower than the occupying force have
made that OcFor's collective life Hell.

   It is easy for the Imperium to bomb a planet (and it's population) flat
and then build over the ruins.  It is much harder to hold an populated
planet.  Remember that you don't actually control the ground, until a 19
year old kid with a rifle can stand on it (without getting cut down).


- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
There's a lot of stupidity out there. Many gun control laws seem really 
pointless. I can't have a handgun in the city, but I can have an elephant 
rifle. Guns with bayonet mounts are outlawed---as if there has been a rash 
of bayonettings! Then, when the bayonet lugs are removed, people get 
outraged when they see that it's really the same gun. You'd think they'd 
realize this proves the original law was stupid! A lot of people who 
scream for more gun control have no idea what the existing laws are like. 
           http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 98 21:30 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Death and Dying

Moin Douglas E. Berry,

> At Close Quarters, a Combat System For Marc Miller's Traveller, is
> (hopefully) going to published by BITS sometime this year.  James and I
> will recieve the usual BITS payment (promisies of a night down the 'pub if
> we ever get to England, and enough money to split an order of Chicken
> McNuggest is neither of us is hungry.)

 	I prefer to eat chinese when in London. Imho english food as the
 	american export is inedible. They only good thing to say about
 	amerian food exports - world wide clean toilets.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 98 22:13 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Thuddd 9

Moin Ian or Katts,

> Looking at the Thuddd 9 entries, I am just blown away. Especially by the
> Ritestar II by Grossport and Argukh and the Caravel from CAM Interstellar.

	The Caravel is not able to jump with only 200MW powerplant, the
	Ritestar is not able to land with only 40MW of HEPlaR and no GC.
	The second ship is of course a price breaker in civilised areas,
	where a highport exist, but in frontier trade its worthless, imho.


- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 98 21:40 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

In-Reply-To: <785efd5a.34cf3152@aol.com>

CardSharks,
> << 
>  Since, on average, it has no effect, how about having it as an optional rule,
>  for people who don't mind the added complexity?
>   >> 
>  
> You are trying to compromise. You mean, I don't like it. Don't include it.
>  
> Marc

I mean:

I don't like it. I can see why you might want it, but it seems to me (admittedly 
without actually playtesting it) like a needless complication. If you really 
have your heart set on this rule (and hey, it's your game, you can put anything 
you like in it), make it optional (since, on average, the damage is going to be 
the same whether you use it or not).
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 98 21:40 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: +D-D Discussion (renamed)

In-Reply-To: <34CF6E4B.4361@sk.sympatico.ca>

Glenn,

> CardSharks wrote:
> > 
> > There is a standard nD for weapon damage... that is to say, a sword does 2D
> > damage (for example). But does that guarantee that the sword's damage is
> > always between 2 and 12? Is that the most (or the least that it can do?)

Well, yes. That's why it's rated as 2D6. If it could do more, it'd be rated as a 
3D6 weapon.

> > determined) the damage could still be "just a nick" or "wow! what a hit!"

Yes. That's what you get when you roll min or max damage.

> I agree with your intention, Marc, but not the implementation.
>  
> The additional complexity of adding one die, subtracting another, is a
> bit much for a damage roll. Wouldn't it be more appropriate to simulate
> the "wow! what a hit" or "just a nick" in the *task roll*?
>  
> The person attacking then knows by his task roll whether he has made a
> great hit, or just a nick, and only *one* extra die need be rolled.
>  
> Critical success: +d6 damage
> Just a nick (within 1 point of task roll, or some other easily figured
> criteria): -d6
>  
> (or d3, for both or either of above)
>  
> Just a humble suggestion, ;-)

Excellent idea. Actually, I'd simplify it further by saying "just a nick" does 
min damage and crits do max, which means you end up rolling *fewer* dice.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:57:14 PST
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: +D-D Discussion (renamed)

I think the below is a great idea.  Takes into consideration the skill 
you have with the weapon, and the luck that goes into the situation.  A 
"barely there" hit will do the weapon's minimum damage, while the 
"critical success" hit will do the max....

<<<From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: +D-D Discussion (renamed)
To: traveller@mpgn.com
Reply-To: traveller@mpgn.com

Excellent idea. Actually, I'd simplify it further by saying "just a 
nick" does min damage and crits do max, which means you end up rolling 
*fewer* dice.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

Greg

The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 14:03:07 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Xenomimesis

I've been forcibly reminded that I do, indeed, have a job, and that it
requires my attention for the next month or so.  "You have degrees in
anthropology and Tibetan literature and no experience whatsoever in
accounting?  Why, you'd make a PERFECT business manager for our foundation!
You're hired!"  (talk about alien mentalities...)

Anyway, I'm going to be only lurking for a while, and I won't be able to do
the IRC session on "How to Act Like an Alien" tomorrow night.  By March I
should be back among the living... if that's the right word for it.

See y'all soon --

Kenji
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 14:03:03 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Initial colonization considerations

Andrew Moffatt-Valance wrote:

>Taking last centuries colonial societies as an example, 15-45 is the norm.
>that allows for a reasonable depth of skills and experience in the
>colony, you really need the older people too.
[snip]
>That's a very late 20th century assumption. My Grandmother had 13 children
>(11 of whom survived to adulthood) and families of this size were not
>at all uncommon in the first half of this century. Look at family sizes in
>the 18th and 19th centuries; women could and did bear very large numbers of
>children. The limits are social not biological (a woman can bear a child
>every 18 months + or - 15%). When one studies the demographics of transition
>from a colonial society to a mature society you will find some very clear
>numbers. A colony will start with a very high natural growth rate (6-8%) for
>the first and second generations. The rate will then tapper off to between
>5-7% for the next three or four generations, dropping to 3-5% for another
>few generations, then stablising around 2-3%. One factor to consider is that
>colonial societies have *much* clearer gender differentiation than mature
>societies (it's fairly much enforced by the breading rate) and that children
>will be born very rapidly (one per 18 months) and then stop. This is again a
>social imperative not a biological one. There is a neccessity to get the
>child bearing over quickly to free up an adult, and to reduce the period
>with dependent children. E.G. assume six children; one per 6 years means

[snip]

>(My sincere apologies to all women who read this, I know I'm reducing women
>to baby machines; the thing is in colonial societies, that's what they
>effectively become)

My objection isn't to the reduction of women to baby machines -- which is,
after all, intrinsically part and parcel of the outdated heteropatriarchal
mode of production, etc. -- but to your reification of a specific, very
historically limited set of instances to represent "colonial society", as a
sort of ideal type.  Russian settlement of East Siberia (except for the
Maritime Province in the late 1800s) doesn't fit the picture you describe
above, either in terms of birth rates and growth or gender roles.  Neither
does Japanese colonization of Sakhalin/Karafuto.  Or Chinese colonization
of Inner Mongolia in the 1900s-1940s, or of Manchuria in the 19th century.


Or, if you want to go farther afield, is there any evidence that the early
demography of eastern Polynesia followed this pattern?  That the first
arrivals to a given island or island group were obliged to breed like mad
for the first few generations?

This sort of ties into what someone else was saying about Traveller
technology: we're tending to formulate "laws" and "basic necessities" on
whatever real-world data happens to be handiest or most currently visible.


Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 14:27:38 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re:  Thoughts on Jump Drive

Wed, 28 Jan 1998 01:16:33 -0700, "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
> I have been thinking about Jump Drive lately.  So here are a few of my
> thoughts on the subject.
> 
> 1) Jump Drive consume large amounts of Fuel for the energy to perfom a
> Jump.

[Stuff...]

> 4) If you use Solar Cells or a another storage medium for the energy, why
> not place them in a sperate object rather than a ship.  Say a Jump Gate.

[More about Jump Gates....]
 
> So far this is what I have.  One of the reasons I posted this is because I
> want feedback on this system.  The other is I am planing to run a Babylon 5
> based campaign using the MT rules.

Well, the point of not being able to store the energy for jump, or not being
able to supply the energy from outside, is to make jump gates impossible.
If you want to have jump gates, then dropping those restrictions is exactly
what you want to do.  To be like Babylon 5 you would also have to drop
the fixed week long period you spend in jump space and the restriction
on ships in jump space detecting and communicating with each other....
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 14:29:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: WHAT!? (on-topic, final message)

Hi,

Agreed, this thread goes away.  Alex and I took it to private email (in
civil terms); please let me know if you're interested in seeing more of
it.  I did not realize that I had been confused with Glenn Crawford --
I'll watch out for that in the future. 


Thanks,
Clark


On Wed, 28 Jan 1998, Richard A. Flores wrote:

> Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU> wrote:
> 
> >We should mark all components of this thread as off-topic -- the closest
> >it comes to being Traveller-related is the parlimentary politics that it
> >relates to.
> 
> Before Glenn Crawford <glennc@nelvana.com> changed the subject title and
> started yelling at me there was a topical link to this thread.  It started
> out titled "Reality Shift".  It wasn't about idiotic legislation by moronic
> politicians, mathematics or Pi (except as a demonstration of what I was
> talking about) or words or anything else that it has become about.  It
> wasn't about rudeness or the trampling of another's ideas.  And as far as I
> am concerned the "WHAT!?" topic is closed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:31:17 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

In a message dated 98-01-28 10:32:44 EST, you write:

<< > You are trying to compromise. You mean, I don't like it. Don't include
it.
 
 I don't think Andrew is trying to compromise the system at all (although I
>>

I didn';t say trying to compromise the system. I said trying to compromise.
Either the rules improvement works or it doesn't. When someone says "make it
an option." he or she means... "I don't like it; leave it out." Saying that it
could be an option is damning it with faint praise.

Either it works or it doesn't. Either it fits or it doesn't. Saying keep it as
an option is looking for excuses to not use it.

Instead, there should be straightforward arguments that it doesn't work,
supported by logic.

<<What I believe he is saying
is that the damage system would work equally well with or without the "+D
- -D" rule so why not make it an-- albeit, possibly quite popular-- optional
rule?>>

If it would work equally well with or without the +D-D, then there is no
argument against implementing it. That's what equal means (I understand there
is an underlying argument for simplicity here), but if it does work EQUALLY
well either way, then there is no argument against it.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:31:30 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

In a message dated 98-01-28 10:18:53 EST, you write:

<< Whatever you do, Marc, don't make it "+D3 -D3"  :) >>

Let's start a whole new thread and argue the merits of half dice. If I
remember correctly, one argument against using half dice was they were only
used in resolving a few tasks. So let's find other ways to implement half
dice.

<facetious mode off>

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 14:49:31 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:18:27 -0600, "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
>According to current (T4 and IIRC CT) technobabble, you don't burn any of
>the fuel, it is used to create and maintain the "real-space" "jump bubble".

I can't speak for T4, but this is not the CT explanation.  In fact,
the jump space sickness stuff in implies the "jump bubble" is
and electromagnetic field.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 23:39:56 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Freelance Traveller - Feedback requested

The price I pay for hosting Freelance Traveller at Dragonfire is
going up this year; it is still classifiable as a bargain.
However, there are some drawbacks to hosting there: I cannot, for
example, get FrontPage Server Extension support, as they have
taken the position that nothing will execute on their server that
they do not have the source for.  This is the biggest drawback
from my point of view as a Web developer.  Other user-oriented
drawbacks have been noted, such as a high rate of down time, and
slow response.

I have learned of a provider that does not appear to suffer from
these defects, and who will allow me to use a site name of
something like http://FreeTrav.foobar.com/, provides support, has
both traditional CGI and FP extensions, and some pre-written CGIs
that can be incorporated into a web, and is asking a quite
acceptable amount.  That amount is $0 - yes, zero.  There is a
drawback, though - they're advertiser-supported.  If I were to
take space at the site (and quite a lot of it is made available
to an account), I would be required to have a click-through ad
(from ad.doubleclick.net) on each page, much as even some major
sites (like AltaVista) do.  Would the Freelance Traveller
readership have a problem with this?  I am willing to remain with
DragonFire if the sentiment against advertising is strong; I
would prefer to switch for the technical benefits if the general
sentiment finds these clickthrough ads acceptable.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:15:21 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Canon Thoughts

 
> Well the whole problem comes that CT didn't have a comprehensive "technical
> architecture manual." The old ships might not make sense.  TNE Came around and
> tried to do this.  There were some hard decisions to make.  The old ships were
> just put in to be that... representations of the old ships.  They probably had
> a choice on to redesign and just keep the names (being "good" designs) or keep
> them as close to *historically* canon as possible, whether that made sense or
> not.  Of course, since alot of the old weapons were history, they should have
> redesigned, IMO, but I wasn't there and am probably missing something.    
> T4 is here and has avoided the problem by backtracking 1200 years.  
 
Actually, it looks like they designed the ships to be like the olds
ones were in spirit. They were actually good, IMO. The problem was
that in the same space a TNE warship could have been a munchkin ship
with the straight FFS rules. It was a lack of playtesting problem.

> <Low birth snippo> (they're interesting, but i have yet to have a pc who
> crawls in     one, regardless of the survivability).
 
In emergencies I can see this, but really, if they were as dangerous
as Himalayan mountaineering (1 in 10 dead) you'd find it hard to
sell trips I bet. Hell, that's about the same as your odds in a B-17
over Germany in 1943.

>    Why should missles be anything but no-no for civies?  Just because its
> canon?  I'd hesitate to say that.  Maybe for Corps and Megacorps but not for

Huh? Do you mean *nuclear* missiles, or missiles?

> your average Joe Freetrader.  Giving Joe Freetrader KKMs means he can really
> screw up his competitors and a yacht or luxury liner but any military ship
> will laugh at him.  Who in their right Mercantile 3I mind is going to allow a
> "Free Trader Buster" or "Civvie Killer?"  : )  Maybe for use against (or by)
> "pirates," but then this will really sidetrack.  
 
Huh? So you're saying that no one would have missiles at all (cept
the navy), right?

Besides which a det-laser (nuke or chemical) can be used as a KKM.
Vs. an unarmed (or underarmed) target just tell your missile to keep
flying until it actually hits the target.  Another reason some kind
of det-laser will dominate since they can always be programmed to
work as KKMs (albiet expensive ones).

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:12:26 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: +D-D Damage (new! with tables!)

In a message dated 98-01-28 11:56:49 EST, you write:

<< *ADDENDA: Curious, I ran the numbers for D6+D-D. (same as 3d6-7)
 
  >>
shouldn't it be 2d6-7?

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:12:32 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

In a message dated 98-01-28 12:11:10 EST, you write:

<< 
 Ok, how about this:  add 1D to the normal damage roll, add them up, then
 roll 1D that you subtract.
 
  >>
I like this. I'll implement it.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:55:57 -0800
From: "Dave Strebe" <strebe@intergate.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Freelance Traveller - Feedback requested

FWIW my .02 cr, the new site sounds like a good deal...if we don't want the
to look at the ads... then we just don't click on them and ignore them. And
get on with the pleasure of looking at your zine.

Dave

- ----------
> From: Jeff Zeitlin <jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Freelance Traveller - Feedback requested
> Date: Wednesday, January 28, 1998 3:39 PM
> 
> The price I pay for hosting Freelance Traveller at Dragonfire is
> going up this year; it is still classifiable as a bargain.
> However, there are some drawbacks to hosting there: I cannot, for
> example, get FrontPage Server Extension support, as they have
> taken the position that nothing will execute on their server that
> they do not have the source for.  This is the biggest drawback
> from my point of view as a Web developer.  Other user-oriented
> drawbacks have been noted, such as a high rate of down time, and
> slow response.
> 
> I have learned of a provider that does not appear to suffer from
> these defects, and who will allow me to use a site name of
> something like http://FreeTrav.foobar.com/, provides support, has
> both traditional CGI and FP extensions, and some pre-written CGIs
> that can be incorporated into a web, and is asking a quite
> acceptable amount.  That amount is $0 - yes, zero.  There is a
> drawback, though - they're advertiser-supported.  If I were to
> take space at the site (and quite a lot of it is made available
> to an account), I would be required to have a click-through ad
> (from ad.doubleclick.net) on each page, much as even some major
> sites (like AltaVista) do.  Would the Freelance Traveller
> readership have a problem with this?  I am willing to remain with
> DragonFire if the sentiment against advertising is strong; I
> would prefer to switch for the technical benefits if the general
> sentiment finds these clickthrough ads acceptable.
> --
> Jeff Zeitlin
> jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:23:15 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Xenomimesis

Kenji

I, for one, will miss you. After all what will the list be like without the
Leader of it's Moral Majority (minority?). Hope to see ya back soon and
don't let 'em work you into "normalcy" or death, whatever's worse!

Mike Peter
Letterworks@Comten.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: Kenji Schwarz <kenji@accessone.com>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Wednesday, January 28, 1998 5:10 PM
Subject: Xenomimesis


>I've been forcibly reminded that I do, indeed, have a job, and that it
>requires my attention for the next month or so.  "You have degrees in
>anthropology and Tibetan literature and no experience whatsoever in
>accounting?  Why, you'd make a PERFECT business manager for our foundation!
>You're hired!"  (talk about alien mentalities...)
>
>Anyway, I'm going to be only lurking for a while, and I won't be able to do
>the IRC session on "How to Act Like an Alien" tomorrow night.  By March I
>should be back among the living... if that's the right word for it.
>
>See y'all soon --
>
>Kenji
>kenji@accessone.com
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:12:34 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: +D-D Discussion (renamed)

In a message dated 98-01-28 12:45:46 EST, you write:

<< 
 Critical success: +d6 damage
 Just a nick (within 1 point of task roll, or some other easily figured
 criteria): -d6
 
 ( >>
I think critical success in combat tasks (which is rolling 2 (or critical
failure, which is rolling 12)) forces other results... fumbles, etc.


Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:12:33 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: +D-D Discussion (renamed)

In a message dated 98-01-28 12:14:54 EST, you write:

<< 
 So a 2D roll would be 2D-1, and 3D is 3D-2, and so forth.
 
  >>
We used to do this in CT. Damage was 2D-3 or something like that.

Marc

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #57
*********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Wednesday, January 28 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 058



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator
Re: Mayday scale
Re: Contacting IG by phone?
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #57
Re: Mayday scale
Re: sin in traveller?
Re: sin in traveller?
Re: Mayday scale
THUDDD 8 Results!
Re: sin in traveller?
Re: +D-D Discussion (renamed)
Re: Freelance Traveller - Feedback requested
PBEM Task Resolution
Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:50:53 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator

In mail you write:

> If you happen to know Java, or want to learn it, you might consider
> recoding in that language.  Most code, I do not push language.  Anything
> graphical, I tend to encourage Java, as there are versions of it for most
> all of the platforms I use.

Is there a version for MSDOS (*not* Windoze!)? And if so, is it cheap? 
I own TP (and can't afford to upgrade from TP 6 to TP 7), an olderf
version of Turbo C, Turbo Basic, and I've got PowerSoft's FirstBasic,
which I'll register as soon as I can spare the $25.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:56:31 -0800
From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <schoon@aimnet.com>
Subject: Re: Mayday scale

anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman) wrote:

>Wasn't that 300 000 km hex scale? I lost the rules to Mayday but I seem to
>remember the figure (we thought it WAY too long back then) and also
>remember that Mayday had 1 hex planets to scoot around with gravity and
>all.

Mayday scale:
1 hex = 3.0 x 10^8 m = 1 light second
1 turn = 100 minutes

(By the way, if some of the people I sent Mayday 4.1 to could send me
feedback...)

Schoon

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:41:39 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Contacting IG by phone?

At 12:49 am 1/28/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Does anyone have phone numbers for anyone at IG?  They are 9 months late
>on paying me for an article in JTAS # 26 and owe me a kill fee on one for
># 27 and I've had no luck emailing or writing them.  I've talked to Tim 
>Brown on the phone, and have received months worth of empty promises, so I'm 
>looking for the phone number of some other person at IG that I can bother 

	If you find one, let me know--you're not the only person
awaiting payment for work delivered. I guess, since IG hasn't
fulfilled their half of the contract, Giy and I never gave up our
rights to FF&S2 ... 'course, there's still the copyright issue
about Traveller in general to keep us from fixing it and giving
it away ...
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj
- --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he
establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:10:52
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #57

At 07:33 PM 28/01/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Traveller-digest     Wed
>From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
>Subject: Re: Thuddd 9
>
>Moin Ian or Katts,
>
>> Looking at the Thuddd 9 entries, I am just blown away. Especially by the
>> Ritestar II by Grossport and Argukh and the Caravel from CAM Interstellar.
>
>	The Caravel is not able to jump with only 200MW powerplant, the
>	Ritestar is not able to land with only 40MW of HEPlaR and no GC.
>	The second ship is of course a price breaker in civilised areas,
>	where a highport exist, but in frontier trade its worthless, imho.
>

Ummm, Michael, you are thinking TNE again. FFS2 p12 puts the power needed
to maintain a jump bubble at 0.252 MW per displacement ton, or 25 MW per
100 dtons. 500 dtons therefore requires 125 MW to maintain the jump bubble.

40 MW provides 8000 kN of thrust, given 0.005 MW/kN. A 500 dton civilian
ship should mass about 4000 tons. The argument then becomes is the hull
shape in QSDS a hypersonic streamlined hull. If it is, airframe thrust
efficiency will let it achieve orbit.

The alternative is just to add 10 000 kN worth of contragrav, which will
take up 40 m3 (3 dtons), mass 13 tons, need 7 MW, cost KCr 200 and take up
200 m2 on the hull.

Ian Whitchurch 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:52:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mayday scale

Hi,

I have the first edition of Mayday (ziploc bag) which specifies 100 minute
turns, and omits a hex scale.  From a 100 minute turn and 10m/s/s unit of
acceleration, the hex scale would be 180,000 km (6 BL/BR hexes).  

I like this scale, because it leaves room for multiple engagements on a
single tabletop.  A 300,000 km sensor can't detect anything past about 13
hexes.  The range DM for beam fire was -1 per hex, so most beam weapons
were limited to less than half a dozen hexes range.  Terrestrial sized
planets would not even block one hex and their gravity could be
effectively ignored.  Only gas giants would be large enough to affect
movement and LOS except in special cases. 

In such a game, HE weapons fire could be limited to ships on matching
vectors that approach to visual range.  A hundred salvoes or more could be
exchanged within a single turn.

Did the boxed Mayday alter the scale?


Thanks,
Clark


On Wed, 28 Jan 1998, Anders Backman wrote:

> >If ship to ship combat ranges are dropped to a few thousand km then the
> >high energy weapons *would* effective. The original Mayday rules used a one
> >thousand mile scale, IIRC, and I know Book 2 did, at that scale HE weapons
> >worked effectively.  OTOH, TNE used a 30,000km scale, HE weapons don't work
> >effectively on that scale.
> 
> Wasn't that 300 000 km hex scale? I lost the rules to Mayday but I seem to
> remember the figure (we thought it WAY too long back then) and also
> remember that Mayday had 1 hex planets to scoot around with gravity and
> all.
> 
> Starships had 1 inch = 1000 km or something. But in Starships you could hit
> a ship VERY far out. I'll look at 1st ed LBB when I get home.
> 
> 
> /Anders Backman
> Aniware AB
> anders.backman@aniware.se
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 20:59:27 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: sin in traveller?

HAL writes:

>  Considering that no one responded to my question about planets
>orbitting M class stars too dim to permit a habitable zone - did I commit
>a sin and ask a question that isn't supposed to be asked?

   Not at all.  I did respond indirectly with my response to the query
about star system generation software.  Now I'm responding directly.

>At the moment,
>I am wondering if a new "trade" class should be created labled ICE WORLD,
>along with a "feature" in the random system generation that says "If star
>type is M class, make Atmosphere, if any, automatically an exotic
>atmosphere".
>
>  This way, I can now attempt to justify why there are some millions of
>people on an M9 class star that is supposed to be one of the founding
>planets of the Sylean federation/Third Imperium.  I can't justify an
>oxygen bearing earth like atmosphere on a world where there never was a
>chance for life bearing oxygen creating plants.  Currently, I am modifying
>the planet to be a K9 star instead of an M9 star as given in FIRST SURVEY
>- - otherwise, it doen't make any sense...

   OK, let me bottom line it for you.  All weak and not so weak attempts
at handwaving aside (sorry Mr. Backman), the system used to generate
star systems is ***broken***.  Actually, it was never *not* broken. 
Years ago it was realized that the tables used to generate stellar data
(which first appeared in "Book 6: Scouts" and were reprinted in each new
edition of Traveller) resulted in an inordinate number of white dwarfs,
bright stars, and systems like you describe that have Earth-like planets
that orbit stars that do not have practical habitable zones.  

   Nothing was done about it.  Why?  Astronomy as a subject is boring to
most people.  They would much rather spend their time debating the
relative merits of kinetic-kill missiles versus nuclear-powered
proximity blast laser types, whether or not tasks should use 1 die, 2
dice, or 3, what the effects are of near-C rocks, why Virus is
impossible using 20th century computer technology, or why Americans are
barbarians/the last freedom loving people on Earth because they allow
private gun ownership--you know, the *really* important stuff.

   There have been a brave few who have suggested fixes for all the
**broken** data that was generated using the **broken** star system
generation sequence, and their fixes have appeared here on TML and
elsewhere.  During the TNE era, GDW even went so far as to publish one
in Challenge that was created by Geo Gelinas, but it was a partial
solution at best.  So was GDW's methods for fixing the white dwarf
overabundance problem published in "Mod I, Mk I" of the basic TNE book. 
Naturally, none of GDW's publications during the TNE era took advantage
of the modest reforms they themselves introduced (look at the stellar
data published in the TNE sourcebooks, most of it the garbage generated
by DGP, and you'll see what I mean).

   "T4" of course has for the most part dodged the issue by not
publishing stellar data at all.  Well except in First Survey...

   There is a new star system generation system created for "T4" waiting
in the wings, ready for publication.  Because it deals with Astronomy
however, and is therefore less important than whether there were three
or four megacorps at the time that Imperial scouts first entered the
Spinward Marches, you'll probably never see it.

   What I would recommend to you is that you pick up a copy of Geo
Gelinas' work (available on the Internet at Joe Heck's site), my work on
companion stars (ditto), a good Astronomy text (I recommend "Astronomy:
The Cosmic Journey" by Hartmann and Impey), and the book entitled
"World-Building: A Writer's Guide to Constructing Star Systems and
Life-Supporting Planets" by Stephen L. Gillet.  

   Using the star system generation sequence published in the basic TNE
manual (Mod I, Mk I) as a *guideline*, or the DGP sector data as a basis
to work from, create subsectors to run your campaigns in and then use
the above resources to modify the results so that they are more
realistic.  If you have questions, send them to the Astronomy newsgroups
on the Internet or post them here--somebody will eventually get around
to answering them.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 21:00:12 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: sin in traveller?

Hans Rancke-Madsen writes:

>IMO the right thing to do would have
>been to make M class stars very rare and let the Scientifically Correct
>stellar distribution go hang.

   The right thing to do was to stop DGP from letting all that bad data
makes its way into the Traveller canon.  IMHO, it has been more a source
of problems than any "T-Plates vs. realistic thrusters" debate or not
having any data at all.

>BTW. my personal opimion is that 'scientifically correct' is a term that,
>in connection with RPGs, ought to be as suspect as 'Politically Correct'
>is in other contexts. Even for a 'Hard' SF game like Traveller, science
>is only a means to get a useful RP environment, not an end in itself.

   Agreed.

>Playability requires that a game universe have consistent rules. But
>they do not HAVE to be the same rules that applies in the real universe.
>Granted, if you keep your rules Scientifically Correct you're guaranteed
>consistent rules. But consistency is only half of what makes a game
>universe playable. The other half is simplicity, and if you insist on
>being 100% Scientifically Correct, simplicity is apt to suffer.

   There is no reason for the star system generation sequences to be as
broken as they are (c.1995) except laziness and total lack of interest
on the part of certain individuals.  A better system (one that took
scientific reality and game playability in mind) *should* have been
introduced but wasn't.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:01:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mayday scale

Oops--

I hate replying to my own posts but I goofed.  The scale implied by a 100
minute turn and 10 m/s/s unit of acceleration is 360,000 km per hex (12
BL/BR hexes): 

Accelerating at 10 m/s/s for 6000 seconds yields 60 km/s of velocity.  A
ship moving at 60 km/s will cover 60 x 6000 = 360,000 km in 100 min.  I
had forgotten the initial-displacement difference:  during the turn in
which it accelerates, the ship will only cover 180,000 km (this effect is
always ignored for playability). 

In this scale, a 300,000 km sensor will only detect out to about 7 hexes,
not 13, and it only works really well at 1 hex.


Clark


On Wed, 28 Jan 1998, Clark Crawford wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I have the first edition of Mayday (ziploc bag) which specifies 100 minute
> turns, and omits a hex scale.  From a 100 minute turn and 10m/s/s unit of
> acceleration, the hex scale would be 180,000 km (6 BL/BR hexes).  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:18:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: THUDDD 8 Results!

I'm very pleased to announce the winner of THUDDD 8, the subsidized
merchant competition...

<drumroll>

Brian Songy, for his Kah Ryn'soo Class Subsidized Merchant!

<fanfare, wild applause>

This makes Brian the first person in history to win two THUDDDs - and
these were two *sequential* THUDDDs.  Can you say 'on a roll'?

Here are the full results; as has become the pattern, the winning design
swept every category but 'Unusualness' (tying with Steven Bonneville's
Irup Khularan in 'Usability in a Game'), where it placed sixth.

Overall:
 1 : 2.67 - Kah Ryn'soo Class Subsidized Merchant (Brian Songy)
 2 : 3.56 - Irup Khularan Subsidized Packet (Steven Bonneville)
 3 : 3.62 - Kebra Nagast class frontier liner (Michael Koehne)

Usability:
 1t: 3.44 - Irup Khularan Subsidized Packet (Steven Bonneville)
 1t: 3.44 - Kah Ryn'soo Class Subsidized Merchant (Brian Songy)
 3 : 3.56 - Gunraa Ushniira class Modular Freighter (Andrew Akins)

Closeness:
 1 : 2.89 - Kah Ryn'soo Class Subsidized Merchant (Brian Songy)
 2 : 3.25 - Kebra Nagast class frontier liner (Michael Koehne)
 3t: 3.80 - Caravel class Subsidized Merchant (Walt Smith)
 3t: 3.80 - Ritestar II Merchantman (Richard Fields)

Efficiency:
 1 : 3.00 - Kah Ryn'soo Class Subsidized Merchant (Brian Songy)
 2 : 3.87 - Gunraa Ushniira class Modular Freighter (Andrew Akins)
 3 : 4.00 - Kebra Nagast class frontier liner (Michael Koehne)

Unusualness:
 1 : 2.22 - Gunraa Ushniira class Modular Freighter (Andrew Akins)
 2 : 4.60 - Starhopper C1a class Transport (Michael D. Peters)
 3 : 4.75 - Issaries class merchant (Douglas Berry)
(6): 5.44 - Kah Ryn'soo Class Subsidized Merchant (Brian Songy)

This THUDDD was the first one which allowed comments to be made as part of
the voting process.  Here are the comments I collected on each design.
I've left them anonymous, though authors are welcome to claim credit for
their comments if they wish to do so.

Ritestar II Merchantman (Richard Fields):

* A good, solid design - but nothing to make it stand out in a ground.
  I also question the choice of 2G engines... uneccessary for a
  merchantman, in my opinion.
* Interesting close defense turret
* Judging from the fuel listed for the HEPlaR Drive and the size of
  the power plant this design appear to come from a version of QSDS
  earlier than 1.5.  Other than using an outdated design system it a
  fairly decent design.
* A "to the wire" design that should make profits on this run (even
  without subsidy).
  Liked the close defence turret, 'cos this class of ship doesn't
  stand in-line to a serious warship.
  Would take serious FFS2 optimisation to beat this.
  Not really a PC ship because its too profitable:)
  This ship deserves to be encountered at every starport.
* This one just didn't grab me.  A little bland and character-free --
  which, on second thought, means it should probably get the government
  subsidy.
* Jump drive cost low by MCr 58. Maneuver drive volume and price wrong.
  Fusion plant smaller than allowed at TL10. Laser TL too high for
  controls? Fuel purification a good idea.  Nice to see someone trying
  a low-tech design! (Did this design use rules in T4 book?)
* Nice price.

Caravel class Subsidized Merchant (Walt Smith):

* Another good, solid ship. The presence of a air/raft and sickbay
  are appreciated - although I feel the space from the engineering
  shop could be put to better use on a small merchantman.
* Very nice
* This ship, like the Ritestar, is another good design that suffers
  from having been designed with a version of QSDS prior to 1.5.
  Either that or the power plant is too small.
* Just one little problem: a 500std ship needs 252MW to achieve
  Jump 2 :(
  Also, 3 gunners cuts into profitability - bring back the
  laser/missile/sand triple turrets of the lbb days.
  11 crew must be too high.
  Still, if you swap the fusion for F+ and 20 days supply, it
  should all work out:)
* I could picture this one the clearest in the role designated for
  it.  Good price, sounds reliable and eminently mass-producable.
* Power Plant of 0.8 (improper rounding above) too low for J2.  Cost
  far too low; 75% of jump drive and power plant cost is more than
  given ship cost.  Don't think volume adds up: fuel+cargo+passenger
  staterooms+turrets+hull = 500?  Air/Raft a good idea.  Thought
  about economics.  A good first effort; take a look at QSDS again
  to see where went wrong (be sure using version 1.5)!
* Power was a little short, too short for j2.

Starhopper C1a class Transport (Michael D. Peters):

* I find the inclusion of both Thrusters an HEPLar odd.  
* A good ship, I like the addition of lifeboats and the dining area.
  A little big, perhaps - and I don't really see the need for the
  heplar drives.
* none
* Much larger than is needed to meet the design criteria without
  giving any justfication why a larger and more expensive ship meets
  then design requirement better than smaller and cheaper ships.
* This ship really needs that subsidy - its too expensive.
  Also, whoever said Heplar was cheap spent 1MCr on Fusion+, not
  100MCr on Fusion.
  I like the inclusion of the lifeboats as an idea. Also, at least
  the "Light Lances" aren't the usual TL12 bug swatter. Another plus
  for remembering the contra-grav for high G planets. But needs more
  G-Comp if you turn on everything:)
  Finally, I thought cargo handlers were in real tons, not std, so 6
  ton is too small.
* Huge and expensive; cargo is slighted in favor of passenger capacity,
  which seems a dubious proposition given the set-up.  Overkill.
  Lifeboats were a good touch.  I'd see this one in use, I suppose,
  but elsewhere: it doesn't suit the route as well as other designs.
* The biggest ship in competition, allows carriage of more passengers
  when available (I think there may on some legs of route). 8 G-hour
  HEPlaR drive and lifeboats an interesting luxury.  MFD provides good
  defense at a price.  More a passenger liner than a merchant trader.
  (Not necessarily a bad thing.)
* Too expensive.

Irup Khularan Subsidized Packet (Steven Bonneville):

* Since the design specs specified that the entire route needs to be
  served, I doubt the Imperium will approve of a design whose main
  claim to fame is the ability to skip the route.
* Its impressive that you managed to get jump three on the ship. I
  feel that a merchantman needs a sand dispenser, however.
* Would meet the specs exactly, except for the J3 instead of J2 and
  probably should have tried fitted in a sandcaster or 2.  However a
  good case is made for the larger jump drive.  Overall an excellent
  design.
* Plus points for the business plan.
  I remain unconvinced about J-3 and the hull seems too expensive -
  the AA spreadsheet gives <1MCr.
  This ship does need all the discounts and spec cargo it can get.
* Overkill with T-plates, military/fibre optic controls, J-3 drive.
  Like another design said, the RFD wanted all planets on the route
  served regularly; long legs aren't the point.
  But! It uses real Vilani language!!  Extra points for the good
  writeup and vivid description.  The Naval Aux. bit is a nice touch.
* My design. Was surprised to notice that jump-3 drive appears to
  improve profitability on the route more than it cost in credits
  and volume. Made a subtle error in economic analyis of the subsidy
  which made it appear less profitable than bank loan.  If ship's
  captain buys own hold space to ship speculative cargo as freight
  and keeps speculative and operating money separate (as in Traveller
  Adventure), the subsidy makes more money than a loan for the captain.
  I'll make the figures available later.
* Even if I like J3, it decreased the Closeness to spec.  Usability
  in a game: because of economy calculations.

Gunraa Ushniira class Modular Freighter (Andrew Akins):

* Odd little bird.  I like it!
* very nice indeed
* This is a very VERSITILE design.  However this competition is
  about a specific route in which the Gunraa Ushniira comes out
  being wastful.
* Its the standard problem with modular/multi role ships - they're
  too expensive and don't excel at anything. Ideal for PC's:)
  If you want a Q-ship, what about 100std batteries+100std Meson Gun
  in the cargo bay: factor 9 at 30kkm.
  I can see some companies buying this sort of ship, but not for
  this run.
* As description says, not efficient, but versatile.  Assuming one
  has local infrastructure...  Small modular vessels don't "click"
  for me in this role.  The launch seemed a fifth wheel.  Intriguing,
  though.
* Modules don't seem to have tonnage for  supporting hull?
  Interesting design clearly reminiscent of TNE's Aurora. Loss
  of space for grapples probably an economic liability. Subsidiary
  craft useful. Most flexible design, if willing to keep spare
  modules around.
* I like modular ships, even if its expensive, and therefor
  -Closeness to spec and -Overall design

Issaries class merchant (Douglas Berry):

* A good, solid design, with no obvious weaknesses, but no real
  outstanding features, either. The small craft is a nice touch.
* Very nice design, but a bit larger than needed.
* like the flying saucer approach - a simple solution to the
  horizontal/vertical deck problem.
  Its a bit big and expensive for the intended run.
  4 light lasers to protect 222MCr? At least they're not 1-0-0-0.
  A low crew number was also a good target to aim for.
* Almost my pick o' the litter.  Good price for specified
  cargo/passenger and then some, without The 50-ton hangar seems
  unneeded... no explanation given.  Nice writeup, good
  justifications (anything based on _Forbidden Planet_ is fine
  by me).  Definitely a good one for PCs, like the designer says.
  But bigger than was really called for.
* Large ship concentrating on passengers instead of cargo. Would
  have liked to see closer look at economics. Well armed. Low
  berths aren't terribly profitable, but potentially useful for
  roleplaying purposes.
* Too expensive.

Kah Ryn'soo Class Subsidized Merchant (Brian Songy):

* The best design in the group, I feel (my own included). I have
  no complaints at all, and I'm impressed at all the design has
  in it. This is a great design...good job!
* Good design nice small and cheap.  Tons of cool things like
  Trade Offices and HazMat Cargo Bay.  But forgot to actually
  install weapons.
* Like the crew - small and focussed on trade. Multi skilling
  to avoid paying pointless gunners is a good thing.
  But where did all the money go?
  The coating discount in FFS2 is far too high and adds an est
  25MCr to the high total. Also the hull needs to be 20.
  Does follow the spec, but will need subsidy.
* My fave. Definitely more features than needed for the route,
  but vivid and convincing enough to win me over.  Probably the
  one I'd be game. Still, not what I can easily picture a
  government subsidizing -- casinos? Armories? Brigs as crew
  quarters?  Hrm.
* Very cheap yet efficient design. Only has defensive weapons
  (but easily changed). Are the crew figures correct?
* The price is ok, and I like the casino.

Kebra Nagast class frontier liner (Michael Koehne):

* To be honest, the poor spelling detracted from my enjoyment of
  this design.
* A fairly standard ship, good design. I don't like the lack of
  an active sensor (even a short range one - I feel you need it
  for landing and such) and the 2G. I don't see why a merchantman
  needs to spend the space and cost on a larger unit.
* Nice designed mared by its lack of installed weapons or even
  sandcasters.  Deckplans are always appreciated.
* I was wondering why it was so expensive - Ah TNE.
  Not only is the crew double M:0 requirements, but they get a
  large stateroom each instead of sharing a small one.
  Like the Captain's lounge (but it is an expensive luxury) and
  would work as a PC ship 'cos its expensive to run:)
* Decent design/price that meets  specifications; the   selling
  point for this one is, to me, the background and history of it.
  Another one I'd likely put in a game.
* Another inexpensive yet efficient design. Small craft are
  interesting. Not sure that would agree with ease of refitting
  suggested in descriptive text.


All this will be on the THUDDD 8 page by this weekend.  Thanks once again
to all the contestants and voters!

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 21:43:56 -0500 (EST)
From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
Subject: Re: sin in traveller?

Hello Folks,
On Wed, 28 Jan 1998, Harold D. Hale wrote:
> Hans Rancke-Madsen writes:
> 
> >IMO the right thing to do would have
> >been to make M class stars very rare and let the Scientifically Correct
> >stellar distribution go hang.
> 
>    The right thing to do was to stop DGP from letting all that bad data
> makes its way into the Traveller canon.  IMHO, it has been more a source
> of problems than any "T-Plates vs. realistic thrusters" debate or not
> having any data at all.
> 
> >BTW. my personal opimion is that 'scientifically correct' is a term that,
> >in connection with RPGs, ought to be as suspect as 'Politically Correct'
> >is in other contexts. Even for a 'Hard' SF game like Traveller, science
> >is only a means to get a useful RP environment, not an end in itself.
> 
>    Agreed.
> 
> >Playability requires that a game universe have consistent rules. But
> >they do not HAVE to be the same rules that applies in the real universe.
> >Granted, if you keep your rules Scientifically Correct you're guaranteed
> >consistent rules. But consistency is only half of what makes a game
> >universe playable. The other half is simplicity, and if you insist on
> >being 100% Scientifically Correct, simplicity is apt to suffer.
> 
>    There is no reason for the star system generation sequences to be as
> broken as they are (c.1995) except laziness and total lack of interest
> on the part of certain individuals.  A better system (one that took
> scientific reality and game playability in mind) *should* have been
> introduced but wasn't.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Harold
> 

At the risk of making it harder for Marc Miller, perhaps the year 1998
with Traveller T4.1 could correct this oversight.  Also, perhaps it would
not be too late to "fix" the Milie 0 and First Survey books by making the
newer editions change the Dwarf systems to normal M class stars.  Any M6+
stars could then be fixed to have normal atmospheres changed to exotic
atmospheres.  Also, a new "needed" trade classification could now include
those kinds of places that require Environmental support such as biodomes
and such.

  Also, perhaps a few volunteers could volunteer to redo the sector
information in a more scientifically correct manner.  As such, I
personally would be willing to work an a Sector - entering it in by hand
as an ascii file, with the corrections needed.  It may well be advisable
for the rank and file population of Traveller players, to already create a
new trade classification:

Ls = Biodome world, this world is totally hostile to human life.
Populations would not exist on this world except as prison farms, mining
colonies, or as a refuge where no one would expect exists.  Populations
should never exceed TL-2

  Just some thoughts to poke out for consideration...


    Hal

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:53:21 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: +D-D Discussion (renamed)

 
>  So a 2D roll would be 2D-1, and 3D is 3D-2, and so forth.
>  
> We used to do this in CT. Damage was 2D-3 or something like that.

Which would range from -1 to 9. What physical reality is modelled by
a damage of -1?  I see the point you're making (and like the idea)
but it seems like the range might as well be from 1 to something
since zero or less is modeled by missing the to-hit roll.

I had been thinking of a similar system for space combat since it
takes hits from some grazing value to a maximum into account.  So
you shoot 100 rounds into space near the target and roll a hit. The
damage is then from 1 shot grazing (damage =1) to maybe several
shots hitting dead on (damage = 16 (on 3d6-2, say)).

Anyway, it is very simple and produces the right range of values
(from 1 to whatever) for damage (and includes zero with the to-hit
roll).

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:47:38 -0800
From: "Brian A. Howard" <bruadh@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Freelance Traveller - Feedback requested

At 11:39 PM 1/28/98 GMT, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
>
>I have learned of a provider that does not appear to suffer from
>these defects, and who will allow me to use a site name of
>something like http://FreeTrav.foobar.com/, provides support, has

Cute. Who is this provider? I like their sence of humor.

>  Would the Freelance Traveller
>readership have a problem with this?  I am willing to remain with
>DragonFire if the sentiment against advertising is strong; I
>would prefer to switch for the technical benefits if the general
>sentiment finds these clickthrough ads acceptable.
>--

For what it's worth, Geocities and other 'free' webspace providers operate
virtually the same way. I have surfed many such sites and the annoyance
factor IMHO is minimal. The price is right, so I say go for it. You never
know some of that advertising might actually be informative. :-P

 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 22:31:03 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: PBEM Task Resolution

I'm trying to start a PBEM campaign with my brother and a friend (the
most I can handle).  But what to do to simlulate die rolling?  Are there
any untilities that will allow 2 people on the net see the results of
the same roll?  We hope to use chat, but I don't trust him to tell me
his die rolls, and he doesn't trust me.  We are brothers after all.

Any ideas?

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 22:38:51 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

J-Man wrote:

> quoting someone else?
> > You learn to program (normally) only once, and it's generally not easy.
> > You learn language syntaxes every time you encounter a new language, and it
> > can (depending on the language) get quite easy...
> >
>
> He's right though, I spent hours and days teaching myself BASIC back in
> the early 80's.  Since then I've learned many different versions of
> BASIC.  I think the most difficult one to work with was the C/PM based
> version that came on the Hewlett Packard 120 and 125 systems.  It
> utilized a very cumbersome predecessor to modern ANSI.  For instance,
> clearing the screen and homing the cursor was done by sending a CTRL-J
> and CTRL-H sequence.
>
> Commodore BASIC was hands-down the easiest, with Applesoft somewhere in
> between.

Did you ever try TIBASIC (Texas Instruments) for use on the infamous TI-99- 4A
(which was eventually sold at retail stores for $10 US.  That was easy for this
then 12-year old.  :-)

Bloo

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #58
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Traveller-digest     Wednesday, January 28 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 059



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: sin in traveller?
Re: FFS2 Jump Energy ?
Re: Thuddd 9
Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...
Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: Decompression/T4.1 Hit System
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...
Re: Posting WD material
Re: Covenant Class Colony Ship
Re: dates in UWPs?
Re: Initial colonization considerations

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 21:28:29 -0500 (EST)
From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
Subject: Re: sin in traveller?

Hello Folks,
  I wish to take this moment to say thanks to those who responded to my
questions regarding the planetary generation system with respect to
Traveller.

  As was noted, the system is slightly, er, bent <grin> with two separate
situations that could result from it.  The first, is that those who don't
know anything about Astronomy, or have access to the later editions of
science fiction games, can be happy (after all, ignorance is bliss).
Those who know enough about what is broken, and easily enough fix it
<grin>.

  For now, I suspect I will just change the Stellar type from M9 to M2 or
something of that nature for the planet that I am currently running my
group on.  Originally, I started off creating a basic program that would
generate information based on a 3D map of the near earth vicinity.  I
even spent 5 days trying to download the HIPPARCOS data (some 50 meg) in
the hopes of having a really decent database to work off of <chuckle>.
But as fate would have it, I came to be bogged down in some things in real
life, and came to salivate over the idea of a GURPS TRAVELLER coming out,
so I went out, purchased Milieu 0 hardcover, Pocket Empires, FF&S2 in the
hopes that I might enjoy creating a GURPS TRAVELLER Hybrid until it came
out for real.

  Currently, I am using the concept that the players are part of a
privatized mercanary outfit currently being trained by the Imperial forces
as a favor to a Senator.  They were sent to Irurk as a part of a
Battledress Jump training exercise that happenes to run afoul of a Vargr
incursion.  The Incursion was the work of an enemy pocket empire in the
hopes that the Vargr would be blamed for the incursion, not the Pocket
empire...

  In any case, currently, the players are using Battledress (in GURPS
terms, Battlesuits) attempting to figure out just what the Vargr are up
to, and try to get enough information for the rest of the company of
battlesuits to jump down in an attack.

  The only thing the Vargr are trying to do, is steal some jump drives,
computers, and anything else small of value, destroy the jumpdrive
production facilities, and get away.  They have thus far destroyed the
Highport, and are working at loading some cargo ships before demolishing
the lowport and production facilities.

  Well, thanks again folks for listening and commenting on the "sin" of
traveller <grin>.

  Hal

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 98 04:18 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: FFS2 Jump Energy ?

Moin Ian or Katts,

> Ummm, Michael, you are thinking TNE again. FFS2 p12 puts the power needed
> to maintain a jump bubble at 0.252 MW per displacement ton, or 25 MW per
> 100 dtons. 500 dtons therefore requires 125 MW to maintain the jump bubble.

	TNE did'nt had such a rule, and I dont have FFS2.  Was'nt there
	something said at 64kJoule ? This would give a preperation of 74
	minutes for 2 parsec with 200MW power.

	125MW can work on J1, the 64kJoule comes up with 100dt-J1 = 24.888MW 
	The ship will implode when trying to jump more than 1.6 parsecs ;-(

	Whats right now ?

	Can somebody tell me if its posible to view 4000tons converted by
	E=MC^2 with normal eye at a bright day, if it explodes on the other
	end ?

By Michael
- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 98 04:41 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Thuddd 9

Moin Ian or Katts,

> 40 MW provides 8000 kN of thrust, given 0.005 MW/kN. A 500 dton civilian
> ship should mass about 4000 tons. The argument then becomes is the hull
> shape in QSDS a hypersonic streamlined hull. If it is, airframe thrust
> efficiency will let it achieve orbit.

	From Starships :

	[...] multiply the hull size, in dispacement tons, by 10*Gs to
	determine thrust required. [...]

	Thrust	MW
	   800	40

	So the drive is ok for a 80dt vessel ! Or of course you can rely
	on a highport and shuttle support, to avoid landing. Thats what
	dequalifies "nice" ships in the civilised areas. In those areas
	I expect to see unstreamlined open framed vessels with just enough
	PP to jump.
- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 21:02:59 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...

Are we talking about High Explosive weapons here?  If so what is not to
belive about then & why were they not used?

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:56:15 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator

In mail you write:

> In a message dated 98-01-27 00:59:33 EST, you write:
>
> << >3) Be Win 95 compatible.
>  
>  I'd say DOS compatible, myself. Windows can run DOS, Mac can run DOS, OS/2
>  can run DOS, Amiga can run DOS, Linix can run DOS, and DOS can run DOS.
>  Writing in DOS still gives you maximum coverage.
>   >>
>
> DOS compatible and Win95 compatible are not the same thing. Making it DOS
> compatible just cripples it. Make it Win95 compatible.,

Making it Win 95 "compatible" means that it is *incompatible* with
anything else. I can't run Win 95 on my current equipment. And I see
*lots* of folks who have their system crashing on a regular basis when
using Win 95.

DOS is still the "lowest common denominator". 

Let's not repeat the mistake from back when you had to have an Apple II
to run Traveller software. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:47:51 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

In mail you write:

>> >Why even waste a good ship like that.  Why not use it as a trading
> vessel.
>> >IOW, why not rip out the cold sleep berthes & use the area as a cargo
> bay
>> >to bring much needed items to the new colony?  Now I can see if it was
>> >built for a one way trip, but most ships aren't.
>> >
>> I suspect you missed the first part of the thread, Legate.  The ship
> being
>> discussed is not FTL, in fact the original concept was one taking a
>> millenium to reach it's destination.
>
> Must have.  Well, even so, why waste a good ship.  If you have the plans
> for a jump drive, why not retrofit it with Jump Drive after you have
> arrived?

Because if you are sending an STL ship on a journey that takes a
millenium, you don't *have* the jump drive!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:51:33 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

In mail you write:

> In a message dated 98-01-26 07:08:06 EST, you write:
>
> <<
>  I think it'll have little effect at higher numbers of dice. But with
>  low numbers, I think it'll give a better distribution. I'll have to
>  write some quick and dirty code to see the exact curves.
> 
>   >>
> On average it has no effect (the change to the die roll is zero).
> 1/36th of the time, the hit dice will be increased by +5 (and 1/36th
> of the time the hit dice will be reduced by -5).

But it makes *quite* a difference in the *distribution* of the hits.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:44:04 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

In mail you write:

> I'd say include it as an optional rule, IMHO.  It is still rather awkward
> to use compared to the old method...
>
> Old method: Roll a number of dice and add them together
>
> New method: Roll a number of dice and add them together,
>             Then roll two additional dice (+D -D) and work out the result,
>            *Then* subtract the result of the "+D -D" from the total of the
>                first batch of dice
>
> That's an extra two steps.

Actually, as has been pointed out, you can simplify things to:

add 2 dice to the number of dice rolled.
add dice together
subtract 7

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:44:12 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

In mail you write:

>> >  Lastly, there
>> > will have to be pilots to run the shuttle service between the starship
> and
>> > the ground once they arrive at the new world.
>> Why would the ship be left in orbit. Surely it would be landed and
> cannibalised 
>> for the resources it represents ( particularly the computer tech and 
>> generators). It would be much more convenient to have it on the ground
> than 
>> floating two or three hundred miles overhead.
>> Alex Ferrie
>
> Why even waste a good ship like that.  Why not use it as a trading vessel. 
> IOW, why not rip out the cold sleep berthes & use the area as a cargo bay
> to bring much needed items to the new colony?  Now I can see if it was
> built for a one way trip, but most ships aren't.

With STL travel *all* trips are "one way". Even if it takes only a few
years ship time, it's going to take *decades* each way. The folks who
sent you off will likely be *dead* before you return.

And given the fuel required, the colony won't be *able* to send the
ship back. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 23:13:40 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Decompression/T4.1 Hit System

Glenn Grant wrote:

> Another problem is ebullism - see my accompanying post on vac exposure. Gas
> bubbles in the blood might kill a PC even if recompression is quickly
> achieved. Survival would perhaps require a test of END, difficulty
> depending on how long the PC was exposed to vac. Even if this test is
> failed, the PC might still survive if treated immediately by another PC:
> Difficult test of Medical, with bonuses if a sick bay or autodoc is nearby.

Wouldn't one of these in the brain be fatal?

> Finally, you might note that exposure to vacuum for more than ten seconds
> will break a lot of capillaries in the skin,

Same question about the brain.

> giving the PC a bad case of
> 'vacuum rose', as Greg Bear calls it (in _Moving Mars_). In my game, I call
> it 'vac burn'. Any exposed area of skin ends up looking like the nose of an
> aging rummy.
>
> >PROTECTION
> >  LungShield. Protects against nD Suffocate. Eliminates any effect of Gas.
> >Description will say LungShield.
>
> Cool. Is this some sort of implant?
>
> I can imagine a lot of interesting implants and body mods intended to
> increase vacuum survivability. For instance, those who live and work in
> space might have modified skin, or an implanted subcutaneous layer, which
> acts like the pressure garment in a VacSuit, to limit ebullism.

Peter Hamilton's recent SF books have older spacers with almost completely
artificial bodies, able to operate without a vac suit.

WRT implants, given the fascination of some with bionic and cybernetic implants,
replacements, prosthetics etc., I'm kind of suprised we haven't seen a supplement
along these lines, indexed by TL.  After all, if we can use artificial hearts to
day, what about TL 12?  State of the art prosthetic hands give temperature and
pressure sensors.  When can I get my superdense-alloy skeleton with requiste
retractable claws?  :-)

Bloo


>
>
> >  VacSuit. Protects against nD Vac. Eliminates any effect of Vac. Description
> >will say VacSuit.
>
> To what does "Description will say VacSuit" refer?
>
> RE: the Task List, posted previously: I still think you should change
> "Craftsman" to "Handicraft" or "Shopcraft" or "Fabrication" or some such
> gender-neutral term. And "Sophontology" should be added to the Social
> Sciences cluster.
>
> Marc, these preview glimpses of the Deluxe T4.1 always provide a thrill of
> anticipation. Can't wait to see the finished product. Oops, I mean, we
> *can* wait, as long as it takes - if it means it's going to be done right.
> Looks very good so far.
>
>  + GMG +
>
>     -----------------------Glenn Grant-----------------------
>                          <neo@total.net>
>     Web: <http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/ggrant.html>
>         "...a starship, a robot, two sex toys, and a gun:
>       the raw, heady essence of interstellar civilization."
>                         --Kenji Schwarz

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:10:05 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

In mail you write:

> For the record, my ship was the design posted -
>
> It had 1,000 adult colonists in cold sleep - but nearly 25std of "cold
> storage" for animal and human embryos. So the question is, how many embryos
> could be stored in a freezer unit 350 cubic meters in side. Figure 50% of
> these embryos are human (the rest animal), and you have a much larger gene
> pool than the original 1,000 adult colonist.

Actually, what you'll have *won't* be "embryos". They'll be fertilized
eggs. There is a difference. But for most mammals, you are talking
about something smaller than a pinhead. Allowing for "packaging" to
allow extracting individual eggs, I'd say that you'd wind up with
something about the size of a .22 cartridge, simply for ease of
handling. And for the animals, it'll probably contain several eggs. How
many depends on typical "litter" sizes for the species.

One of A. Bertram Chandler's stories has people on a gaussjammer (an
early form of FTL drive in his universe, subject to getting knocked
*way* off course occasionally) that's had to put down on a not very
hospitable planet. At one point, some of them raid the egg storage
because of hunger. They are convicted of cannibalism....

Chandler's stuff doesn't fit the Traveller universe very well, but it's
*good*. And he *does* have plot ideas that can be swiped. One involves
a ship with poor shielding that crashes on an isolated planet. Due to
the poor shielding, the rats onboard have mutated considerably. The
crash occured while they were trying to take over the ship! And tey
wind up getting the upper hand on the surface. This results in worlds
occupied by a *nasty* spacefaring species. 

In Traveller terms, they're a minor race since they didn't develope
star travel on their own. But they've got it, and they are expanding...

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:22:54 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

In mail you write:

> On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Legate wrote:
>
>> Also, why do new colonies always have a low TL?  I mean if you arrive at a
>> Earth-like world form the homeworld with everything you need to create a
>> vivable colony you will have the state of the art equipment with you.  From
>> what I have seen in Traveller all you need to start a colony is warm
>> bodies.  Not true, you will need all facets of life & learning.
>
> Because the TL-5 tractor you _can_ fix with a hammer, three wrenches and
> a forge is worth 17 TL-12 ones all with a defrabijulator module gone bad.

But since it needs at least semi-refined fuel, you are even *better*
off with horses or some other draft animal. Then all you need is the
forge, and fodder. As some author (Heinlein?) said "Horses make more
horses. Tractors need factories."

> A colony of necessity needs to be self sufficient, for a time, at least,
> and particularly in the case at hand, which is a sub-light colonization
> effort.

> Low Tech (generally) = Easy to fix

> In a real emergency, you can bootstrap to making those hammers and
> wrenches, starting with stone tools.

And as I pointed out years back, one thing that a colony will likely
have is some sort of "library". Possibly using microfiche and the
handheld readers that merely require sunlight to use. The library will
have instructions on how to build *any* item their civilization has
ever had. It'll list the tools and materials required, and how to use
them to produce the item. It'll also list how to produce the tools and
materials, with similar specs. 

With such a library, a moderately hospitable environment, and time, you
could work your way up to anything. 

> A large HT colony _will_ have severe vulnerabilities that a smaller, LT
> one won't. Like when the last defrabijulator module goes on your last
> tractor. If you had 10,000 mouths to feed, you might get by on muscle
> power. With 10,000,000 there's just no way to do it; those 10,000,000
> people will be counting on their high tech to survive.

There's no way a colony is going to start out with 10 million people.
On the other hand, 10 thousand is both workable, and likely large
enough to maintain an adequate tech level on its own. It'll be a *low*
tech level, but it'll be *maintainable*.

Aside from gear used in the initial setup of the colony, no colony is
going to *depend* on gear that can't be *replaced* locally. They'll
have and use higher tech stuff, but they don't dare *depend* on it.

Assuming you needed your car to get to work every day, would you buy a
car where if it broke down, you'd have to send away for parts and wait
a month or two for them to show up? Somehow I don't think so.

So if it's your *life* rather than your *convenience, you are going to
be a lot more careful.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:45:45 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

In mail you write:

> OTOH, perhaps it's a matter of reality shift.  I believe that at one time
> the correct value for Pi was 3 (not 22/7ths or 3.1415926...), then one day
> someone (an authority) said, "It can't be that simple."  And started looking
> for the "correct" value for it and "found" it was closer to 22/7ths (which
> was exactly what he thought it would be).  Then later still, someone else
> (another authority) said, it can't be that simple...
>
> I base my belief in the changing reality on the fact that many ancient
> people were quite advanced in their understanding of math and could wrap a
> string around a cylinder and see what the circumference was in relation to
> the diameter.

You've missed the important point. It was a major breakthroug to
*realize* that the ratio of the circumference to the diameter was a
*constant*. Until you come up with that flash of insight, there's no
*point* in comparing the measurements.

And in any case, the ratio of the circumference to the diameter is only
pi in Euclidean geometry. Pi is a far more *fundamental* constant in
math. The value comes up in places that have nothing to do with
circles. One example is that i^i = e^(-pi/2)


> For example, the atomic mass of hydrogen (and all the other elements) used
> to be the same as their number on the periodical chart.

Sorry, that's *never* been true. The position on the periodic chart is
related to atomic *number*, which actually *is* an integer value. It
turned out to be the number of protons in the nucleus, but originally,
it was a property having to do with xrays bouncing off the material.
And that was discovered long *after* the periodic table had been
established (based on chemical & physiscal properties). 

> Someone (an authority) decided that nature couldn't be so precise and
> start looking for the "actual" mass and "found" that he was right, it
> wasn't exactly 1 (for hydrogen) but 1.008.

Nope. The measurements of atomic weight just kept getting more
accurate. And from the *beginning* it was clear that they weren't
integers. You see, one of the more common element (I seem to recall it
being Chlorine) had *two* fairly common isotopes, which resulted in a
mass of xxx.5 for the very *earliest* attempts to measure atomic
weights.

> We tend to find what we are looking for.

Except that contrary to what you think, science has generally
progressed by someone *expecting* to find one thing, then finding
something else and folks then trying to figure out *why* he got the
wrong answer.

One of the classic examples is the Michaelson/Morley experiment. They
set up some gear to measure the speed of light, with great accuracy, in
two directions at right angles to each other. Their intent was, by
doing so at different times of day, to measure the motion of the earth
through the ether. Put they kept coming up with results that said light
was traveling at the *same* speed in all directions.

This made *no* sense at all, because the earth is rather obviously
moving. All sorts of things were tried to "explain away" the problem.
The "final" solution was relativity.

Same sort of thing happened with Copernicus, Galileo, Kepler, the
phlogiston theory in chemistry, etc. Folks expected one thing, and
found something different. And by trying figure out *why*, the came up
with new knowledge.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 21:21:36 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...

 
> Are we talking about High Explosive weapons here?  If so what is not to
> belive about then & why were they not used?
 
You should probably quote a *little* of the text you refer to
(admittadly requests usually run the other way around :-) since I'm
not sure what you mean.

Oh, I *do* know what you mean! HE has been thrown around for "High
Energy" weapons. This refers to Plasma and Fusion guns. Specifically
for use on spacecraft.

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 23:32:50 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Posting WD material

ASlack@synetics.co.uk wrote:

> Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
> 01/27/98 10:56 PM
>
> << Shadow wrote...
> >From what I hear, most gaming mags buy
> *all* the rights. Which means that the author essentially has no say in
> what they do with it, and can't use it himself!
> In that latter case, *only* GW can give you permission.
> >>
>
> Wherever I've been published, the deal has always been that you sell all
> the rights or you don't get published. The magazine viewpoint is that they
> might want to use the work again and wouldn't want to chase up all the
> authors to get permission for reuse.
>
> In my own case, between approximately WD20 and WD38 I was a Games Workshop
> employee, and GW can reasonably argue that much of the work was done using
> their facilities in working hours.

This is the "work for hire" doctrine.  If it was within the scope of you
employment, you probably would lose any case.

> I have written to one magazine and been told that in addition to this they
> would not be pay for the articles. I did not pursue writing for that
> publication further.

Sound judgment unless you just want to see your name in print.

> IMHO something like a non-transferable licence to use in perpetuity would
> be nice for the author. I don't know if that would be of interest to
> magazines.

Well, thats not a bad idea, but it would certainly be confusing to the
company.  Their lawyer would (or rather 'should') have to research the law in
that jusridiction concerning licenses, transferability of, and duration of.
But since the work is a literary work (and thus subject to copyright law), in
the US, most courts will have to use copyright law instead, because federal
copyright law pre-empts all state laws on the matter.  Additionally, they
might consider the non-transferability to be impermissable because its
unfairly restricts business.

For general outline of copyright issues in the US (maybe some UK stuff too),
check out   http://www.lawgirl.com  trust me, its a good sight.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 22:35:08 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Covenant Class Colony Ship

This is a private reply.  There will be a public one as well.

Andrew Akins <igor@ames.net> wrote:

>I have gotten several requests for the details of this design (rather than
>the quick synopsis I posted earlier)...so here it is (a few changes have
>been made, as well):
>
>Covenant class colony ship
>Designed by Seraphim Industries, inc
>
[snipped most of the design of a very good colony ship and description of
modifications from earlier design which I would give an A-.  With just a
little more tweeking, we can have that puppy up to a solid A]

>    1.0G x 9.81m/s x 3600s x 103.3hr = 3,648,142m/s, or around 1.2% the
>speed of light. That should be fast enough to kick in the ramscoop.

I don't know about the other incarnations, but in CT and T4, 1.0G = 10
m/s/s.

>If anyone wants to see the actual Excel 5.0 spreadsheet, email me and I'll
>email it to you...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 22:43:41 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: dates in UWPs?

TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com> wrote:


>>>Put it [the date notation] in the extended data set (as posted
>>
>>>by Marc) as a single (hex) code eg M0 is 0, etc and expand
>>>as new milieus arise. This removes the problem of linking to
>>>the dating system and adding in a -tve for Milieus prior to
>>>M0. I mean, an Ancients set would otherwise be -200000!
>
>I didn't think bout that. ; )  Well actually...  i doubt that fits w/ my
>concept... "Hey Fred, this place hasn't been visited since the Ancients."
Is
>that an "Ancient" star chart? ; )
>
>>>
>>Perhaps a simple logarithmic notation.  Something like:
>>code
>>#    Years since last survey
>>0                0 to 3 years
>>1                3 to 7 years
>>2                7 to 20 years
>>3              20 to 55 years
>>4              55 to 148 years
>>5            148 to 403 years
>>6            403 to 1,097 years
>>7         1,097 to 2,981 years
>>8         2,981 to 8,103 years
>>9         8,103 to 22,026 years
>>A      22,026 to 59,874 years
>>B      59,874 to 162,755 years
>>C    162,755 to 442,413 years
>>D    442,413 to 1,202,604 years
>>E 1,202,604 to 3,269,017 years
>>F 3,269,017 to 8,886,111 years
>
>Won't there need to be a notation for the "baseline" date, though?  Because
>time is continually advancing. What if u find an old star chart?  time in
the
>top left corner?   : ) Of course it could always be "FS" and "SS" for First
>Survey and Second Survey.
>
>Sounds pretty good otherwise.

I assumed that you would know which data base you were consulting.  I guess
it's true what they say about when you ASSuME.

>>This single hexadecimal # would give us a time scale beyond anyone's
>>estimates of possible dates on useful intelligence.
>>
>>>Also, I'd argue for adding in the space for the economics extension from
>>>Pocket Empires.
>>
>>Sounds good to me.
>
>Me 2. This is a necessity if theres to be any consistency.  It's not like
>those huge WBH profiles.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 22:48:55 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Initial colonization considerations

Michael D. Peters <Letterworks@Comten.com> wrote:


>John,
>
>Apart from Andrew's ship I am interested in this inhanced growth rate from
>MT, but I do not have any MT books. Could you forward a breif discription
of
>this by private mail?
>
>Thanks in advance
>
>Mike Peters

I'm interested too.

Thanks,

Richard A. Flores <cybernot@GTE.net>

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #59
*********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Thursday, January 29 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 060



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Dates in UWPs
Re: Freelance Traveller - Feedback requested
Re: WHAT!?
Re: Enterprise and saucer seperation
Re: WHAT!?
Re: Q: Zhodani Ship Configuration (?)
A Question about Hits
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Canon thoughts
Re: Weapon Skills
Planetary atmospheres
Mea Culpa and Cyberware
+D-D (my last word for a while)
Re: dates in UWPs?
Re: missiles, low berths, and other canon...
Re: missiles, low berths, and other canon...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 22:56:14 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Dates in UWPs

Peter H. Brenton <pbrenton@mit.edu>


>>Probably the easiest way to encode UWP era is in the trade codes:
>
>[snip discussion of where to standardize placement of milieu info in UWPs]
>
>
>Stop! Wait! Hold it!
>
>The era of the survey has no place in the UWPs of individual worlds.
>Within a given database (or list, which is basically a database) there must
>be consistency as to what era the data covers.  I have seen a couple of
>examples of more than one era (TNE and 1107) in one table and it's quite
>confusing.
>
>No.  I advocate no mixing of eras within a listing, therefore the entire
>listing has an "Era Code" or the era integrated into the title/intro/page
>header.
>
>It's also a fact that every time you change the UWP format there are a
>bunch of sector files that are no longer current (which really doesn't
>matter until someone writes a program using the "standard" sector file
>format).  Change this format only when there is a *real* need.
>
>Pete

Maybe I misunderstood the topic.  I assumed that the databases would be only
one or another not mixed.  The hex/log digit I proposed was only to
delineate how old the data was.  It seems sensible to me that a scout or
explorer or merchant would have some kind of idea as to how old the data he
was looking at.  Unless of course someone screwed up the transmission along
the line.  ;-)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 21:22:57 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Freelance Traveller - Feedback requested

Jeff,

Print magazines have ads, why not Free Lance Traveller? If you, as the
editor/host feel that the mag would benefit from the change ... DO IT! Just
post the new adress please. Free Lance Trav is about the only Traveller mag
out there now, and has been one of the best for a long time.

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Wednesday, January 28, 1998 6:48 PM
Subject: Freelance Traveller - Feedback requested


>The price I pay for hosting Freelance Traveller at Dragonfire is
>going up this year; it is still classifiable as a bargain.
>However, there are some drawbacks to hosting there: I cannot, for
>example, get FrontPage Server Extension support, as they have
>taken the position that nothing will execute on their server that
>they do not have the source for.  This is the biggest drawback
>from my point of view as a Web developer.  Other user-oriented
>drawbacks have been noted, such as a high rate of down time, and
>slow response.
>
>I have learned of a provider that does not appear to suffer from
>these defects, and who will allow me to use a site name of
>something like http://FreeTrav.foobar.com/, provides support, has
>both traditional CGI and FP extensions, and some pre-written CGIs
>that can be incorporated into a web, and is asking a quite
>acceptable amount.  That amount is $0 - yes, zero.  There is a
>drawback, though - they're advertiser-supported.  If I were to
>take space at the site (and quite a lot of it is made available
>to an account), I would be required to have a click-through ad
>(from ad.doubleclick.net) on each page, much as even some major
>sites (like AltaVista) do.  Would the Freelance Traveller
>readership have a problem with this?  I am willing to remain with
>DragonFire if the sentiment against advertising is strong; I
>would prefer to switch for the technical benefits if the general
>sentiment finds these clickthrough ads acceptable.
>--
>Jeff Zeitlin
>jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 20:27:26 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: WHAT!?

In mail you write:

> As for the world being flat, I believe it was for the same reason as I
> believe that at one time the correct value of Pi was 3 exactly.  Because of
> the reports of those same equally intelligent people that lived in ancient
> days.  The sea faring peoples did not speak of the ships disappearing over
> the horizon, the spoke of them as getting smaller and smaller until you
> could not see them any more.  Even on as large a planet as we live on, this
> would not happen if the surface you were on was curved.

And just *where* are you reading that the seafaring peoples said this?
The world has been *known* to be round for something like 3000 years.
This size was first measured well before Christ was born.

> I maintain that people find what they look for!

And as I pointed out in another message, history proves you wrong. 

Heck, if you were right, the world would only be 18,000 miles in
circumference and Columbus would have reached China as he intended to
instead of discovering the Americas.

And yes, *that* was where Columbus differed with his contemporaries.
Everyone *agreed* that the world was round. Columbus just argued for it
being much *smaller* than it actually is.

Please take the trouble to find out what happened in the past rather
than making silly *assumptions* that can easily be shown to be false.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 21:09:39 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Enterprise and saucer seperation

In mail you write:

> On 01/26/98 at 11:32 PM,  "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net> said:
>
>>>What is TOS?
>
>>Star Trek:  The Original Series
>
> Followed by
>
> ST: TME     The Movie Era
>
> ST: TAS     The Animated Series

These should be in the opposite order. The animated series was *long*
before the first movie.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 20:36:32 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: WHAT!?

In mail you write:

> Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU> wrote:
>
>
>>On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Alex Ferrie wrote:
>>
>>> As regards Pi, it's only maths. We chop and change maths to suit our
> perceived
>>> reality. If someone at some point in the past said that Pi = 3, perhaps
> he was
>>> right and we are wrong<g>.
>>
>>And all of the technology suddenly stops working because baseless words
>>are more powerful than physical facts.
>>
> You missed the whole point.  It's not the words, but the reality that
> underlies the words.  If reality shifts, then everything shifts.  If Pi gets
> larger, then the circles get larger (area-wise) too.  Nothing stops, it just
> changes and continues.

Sorry, but pi being 3 has consequences. And they don't have to do with
circles getting bigger. It require *extreme* curvature of space. 

BTW, there *are* no historical references to pi being three. Before the
*concept* of there being a *constant* ratio between circumference and
diameter, they'd refer to the size of a circular object by the
diameter, by the circumference, or even by *both*. They didn't *expect*
there to be a relationship between them.

Thus you find things like the reference to the "molten sea" in the
Temple in Jerusalem being 2 cubits across and 6 cubits around. If they
had the *concept* of Pi, regardless of value, they'd have known that
they only had to specify *either* the circumference *or* the diameter,
and they'd have fully described it. But they gave *both* because they
didn't know that they were related.

There are quite pronounced differences in how people *thought* between
modern and ancient times. So much so that most moderrns can't
understand the ancients.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:56:30 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Q: Zhodani Ship Configuration (?)

In mail you write:

>>>> This approach will even let you design such silliness as the
>>>> NCC-1701 version of the USS Enterprise.

>>> For which of course you need 4 hulls.  A large disk, a larger long
>>> cylinder and 2 smaller longer cylinders.

>> Since the primary hull (saucer) is supposed to be a seperate vehicle
>> from the secondary (the 3 cylinders), maybe make 2 hull and a
>> grapple for them.  Make it a jettison grapple since on 1701 it was
>> supposed to only be reattachable at a starbase and the 1701-D a
>> standard grapple.
>>   Since the 2 smaller longer cylinders are supposed to be the warp
>> nacelles you don't have to worry bout them.
>>   I guess the combo would have to be considered unstreamlined, no?
>> This also gets rid of a need for escape pods since the primary hull
>> is supposed to be one giant escape pod.

> Not for NCC 1701 ("no bloody A, B, or C" to quote Scott).  However,
> for the later models, maybe.

No, while it was never done on the original show, it *was* mentioned in
several reference works that are considered rather authoritative. I
think one of them may have been the writer's guide, but I can't be
certain as I never had one.

> The first one was never intended to land.  It could, but in Traveller, any
> ship can land if it has sufficient bracing.  It may be a rough ride, but,
> you can get them down.

That's right. It wasn't intended to land, but it was (supposedly)
intended to be able to limp along on impulse and maybe reach somewhere
safer. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 98 22:51:50 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: A Question about Hits

On 01/27/98 at 01:15 AM,  CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com> said:

> I think he was meaning the added complication, and I agree. I haven't
>tried it  yet, though, so maybe it works better than I think.

>Once you get used to it, it adds an element of unpredictability AND allows
>that "he just nicked me" situation.

Marc, 

Like I said, I like the concept of the +/- 5, but I was a little concerned
about the added rolling.  I played around with it this evening and quickly
a question came to mind.

Have you decided to change the way damage is applied?  I *thought* damage
was going to be applied one die at a time to the 3 physcial
characteristics, 

Example

STR 9
DEX 6
END 8

You take 2d damage

You roll a 2 and a 4

And choose to subtract 2 from STR leaving STR 7

and 4 from DEX leaving DEX 2

End Example

With this new method you'd have had 2d+(+d-d), or roll 2 and 4 then +6-4.
The *total* would be 6+2 or 8, but how could you apply each of the dice to
a characteristic?  Which die does the +2 add to?  Or do you plan to take
the entire roll off one characteristic now?


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 22:54:52 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

> >3) Why carry large ammounts of fuel if all you do is burn it to make a
> >jump.  Why not use Solar Cells to collect the energy from the nearest
star,
> >or use another energy storage medium to hold the energy needed.
> As far as I understand "all" of the fuel is not burned to start a jump. 
A
> large quantitiy is used to open the jump field, but that field needs to
be
> maintained through the entire jump.
> Now, here's an idea to help... first, you have to be able to have Jump
Gate
> transfer the jump field from itself to the ship passing through. Second,
you
> have to be able to maintain the jump field. So, keep the jump drive and
add
> a device to be able to use the jump field produced by the gate. You won't
> need nearly as muc fuel, but you would still need the drive. Another
> thought, keep the fuel tanks. Convert them to cargo holds, but make it so
> they could be sealed and used for fuel. This would allow the ship to be
> capable of independent jump.

Well my reasoning behind this is a little kown rule from CT-High Guard &
MT.  That when the jump capacitors of a ship are filled then that ship my
jump.  It does not say that you needed to use the fuel or not.  When in
doubt don't modify.

> I think the jump gates would have to be controlled. Either by
corporations
> or government.
> I can see a toll being charged to use the jump gate. Since you will
probably
> make more money from increased cargo.

Yeppers.  It would be a rich form of revue for a corp or gov.

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 22:58:42 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

> >>2) If you could store energy in other forms other that fuel would that
not
> make Jump Drive more Efficent?<<
> As far as I know, there are no capacitors available that can hold the
> incredible amount of energy required for a jump for long periods of time.

Jump capacitors in CT & MT, bubba.  Its canon so try to refute me.

> >>3) Why carry large ammounts of fuel if all you do is burn it to make a
> jump.  Why not use Solar Cells to collect the energy from the nearest star,
> or use another energy storage medium to hold the energy needed.<<
> Solar doesn't generate enough energy, it's a "passive" energy source (I guess
> you might be able to if your collection grid was planetoid size. A physicist
> on the list could verify/refute this). You need something that actively
> generates huge amounts of energy like fission, fusion, or matter/anti-matter
> reactions.

One solar cell does not, but large amounts of solar cells would.  As for
generation of huge amounts of energy, well a star is a hugh fusion reactor.

 
> You'd be entitled to do this as it is your universe but canon thumpers would
> say that you aren't playing Traveller anymore but rather Babylon 5. =)  It
> would radically alter the game, but it's your universe to alter as you see
> fit.

Well, thank you for that.  I really need you to give me permission to run
my universe the way I want to.

> DED

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 98 23:12:45 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Canon thoughts

On 01/28/98 at 12:57 AM,  Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com> said:

>Take High Guard and CT as an example. We all know that in Traveller the
>peace is maintained by squadrons of huge Battleships, or Battleriders (a
>priciple source of debate in the Navy). *That* is canon. 

Merrick, this isn't a shot, it's a serious question.  Where and when did
the *fact* of "peace maintained by squadrons of huge Battleships" take
hold?  It wasn't apparent in the 3 LLBs, it wasn't in the CT adventures,
and as you say it wasn't in HG.  I haven't gone back and checked JTAS, did
it take hold after the FFW?  Was it during the MT era that the
multi-hundred thousand ton BBs became orthodox?  As I've written about I
didn't buy many of the MT books, staying with CT for flavor, setting and
feel.  It was a surprise for me to see the sizes of some of the MT and even
TNE era ships.

>HG, on the other hand while frequently refered to as canon, has optimum
>military designs that are far from Canon (though closer to the BR camp
>than the BB camp)---HG tends to support the smallest ships you can wrap
>around a decent meson gun as I recall.

Wasn't AHL about 10,000 tons?  I remember that as being a *huge* ship, it
was a full-blown cruiser in my time!  Heck, to me, a BB would be 20 to 30
ktons, not ten times that volume!

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 22:02:34 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Weapon Skills

In mail you write:

> At 09:59 PM 1/26/98 -0600, you wrote:
>
>>OTOH, if you don't tie a skill *strictly* to one attribute you can get the
>>balancing effect you are looking for without forcing things.  Use STR to
>>hold a weapon on target on 2nd+ shots, use DEX to aim the weapon, use STR
>>as a threshold to avoid -DMs, etc.
>
> I've used every stat at one time or another with the weapon's skills.
> (Even SOC, to allow a character to recognize the shotgun as being an
> antique worth several thousand credits.)
>
> My favorite use of DEX with guns is reloading and clearing jams.. this are
> two evolutions that require speed and precision.

My one and only experience with a "jam" was when the SKS I was firing
misfired. Best guess is an underpowered round, plus a bit of grit on
the cartridge. So the case didn't eject, nor did the next round feed. 

But from *my* point of view, it seemed to have cycled ok, and then
failed to fire when I pulled the trigger. In other words, a
"hang-fire". Not the most pleasant thing in the world to deal with. 

Speed was *not* a consideration... :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 21:12:53 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Planetary atmospheres

In mail you write:

> Hello Folks,
>   Maybe someone here can help a duffus with a logic problem regarding
> traveller (or any other sci-fi system for that matter!)...
>
>   It is expected that random generation systems will produce some rather
> bizare planetary systems that violate known "physics" and such.  With that
> as a warning, I can accept that any random generation system will produce
> flawed results.
>
>   My question then is this: in the First Survey data listings, it talks
> about planets with M class stars.  Looking at such planets, one finds
> quickly, that such planets are not capable of having free standing liquid
> water, and that temperatures on such planets are below freezing.
>
>   Given that fact - how is it possible for planets to have oxygen bearing
> atmospheres if such atmospheres are the result of transformations due to
> plant life activity (in as far as life as we know it on earth requires)?
>
>   If that is the case - that such planets cannot have breathable
> atmospheres unless an attempt is made to terraform it, should all planets
> that are not possible to be inside a "habitability" zone be considered
> exotic?  That being the case, should there not also be a new trade
> classification for frozen worlds or exotic atmospheres or should planets be
> equated with "barren" or "airless" worlds?

Well, one solution is that the atmosphere was formed by primitive life
while the planet was still young. At that time volcanic activity would
keep things warm enough. After that, the life can try to adapt as the
planet cools off. And as long as the planet is tectonically active and
has something approaching oceans, you'll have things like the critters
around deep ocean vents. As well as bacteria living in hot springs. 

Frankly, I think we should divorce atmosphere *density* and atmosphere
*composition*. 

To the best of our knowledge, planets start with an overwhelming ly
hydrogen atmosphere. In the inner system, the hydrogen is quickly lost
except for the amount that can be tied up in compounds. Carbn, nitrogen
and oxygen are the elements available for such compounds.

This gives you an atmosphere and "hydrosphere" composed of water(H2O),
ammonia(NH3), and methane(CH4). UV from the star will split the
molecules in the upper atmosphere over time. The hydrogen will be lost.
So you wind up with oceans of water with various nitrogen and organic
compounds. And an atmosphere that's mostly N2 and CO2. And a lot of
carbonate minerals as the CO2 combines with water vapor to make dilute
carbonic acid rain which reacts with the rocks.

That's the sort of atmosphere that Venus, Mars and Earth all had. Venus
was too hot and the heat caused CO2 to be released from carbonate
minerals, which increased the heat until the vicious cycle wound up
with the current situation. 

Mars lost a lot of atmosphere because it was too small too hold onto
it. And then as the pressure dropped, the water evaporated, got broken
up in the upper atmosphere (and later, even at ground level as the air
kept thinning). And as the planet cooled the CO2 started freezing out
at the poles (yep, part of the Martian polart caps is dry ice!). 

And earth had mostly nitrogen, with a lot of CO2, and some water vapor.
Then that soup left in the oceans resulted in life. The single celled
forms lived by breaking down the chemicals the UV had formed, or
extracting energy by "oxidizing" minerals (chemosynthesis). Then
came the invention of photosynthesis. And things changed "overnight". 

The oxygen level in the atmosphere increased from a mere trace to
present levels or even higher in a geological eyeblink. And this
reacted with all sorts of minerals, weakening them. Things like sulfur
and nitrogen oxides made far more "acid" rain than before. Whole
mountain ranges eroded far faster than before. This plus the
chemosynthetic bacteria are responsible for a lot of mineral deposits!

Eventually things stabilized as they are now. 

But the point of all of this is than many planets are going to have
"earthlike" temps and pressure, and *no* free oxygen. Just that
nitrogen and carbon dioxide atmosphere. And they may actually be
*desirable* because of surface or near surface deposits of minerals
that can only form deep in the ground on planets with an oxygen
atmosphere. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:50:14
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Mea Culpa and Cyberware

Michael Koehne wrote :

>	TNE did'nt had such a rule, and I dont have FFS2.  Was'nt there
>	something said at 64kJoule ? This would give a preperation of 74
>	minutes for 2 parsec with 200MW power.

1 Joule = 1 Watt for 1 second. The 64 megajoule per m3 per parsec is for
jump one. Ooops, you're right. The ship needs another 60 MW or so of power.

>From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
>Subject: Re: Thuddd 9
>
>Moin Ian or Katts,
>
>> 40 MW provides 8000 kN of thrust, given 0.005 MW/kN. A 500 dton civilian
>> ship should mass about 4000 tons. The argument then becomes is the hull
>> shape in QSDS a hypersonic streamlined hull. If it is, airframe thrust
>> efficiency will let it achieve orbit.
>
>	From Starships :
>
>	[...] multiply the hull size, in dispacement tons, by 10*Gs to
>	determine thrust required. [...]
>
>	Thrust	MW
>	   800	40

Thrust is in kilonewtons. Megawatts power the m-drive, which creates the
thrust.

The 10t/dton rule is also a "guideline" to cover massy, heavily-armoured
ships and thin-skinned freighters. It's part of why I prefer using FFS -
you get complete details.

Bloo wrote :
>
>WRT implants, given the fascination of some with bionic and cybernetic
implants,
>replacements, prosthetics etc., I'm kind of suprised we haven't seen a
supplement
>along these lines, indexed by TL.  After all, if we can use artificial
hearts to
>day, what about TL 12?  State of the art prosthetic hands give temperature
and
>pressure sensors.  When can I get my superdense-alloy skeleton with requiste
>retractable claws?  :-)
>
>Bloo
>

The short answer is "Traveller doesnt do cyberware".

The longer answer is that the presence of such things in members of society
helped the fractionation of humaniti during the Rule of Man, and is
therefore avoided by all right-thinking people, and discouraged by all
right-thinking governments. Anyway, most to all the neccessary knowledges
and technologies was lost during the Long Night.

The 3rd Imperium is therefore down 2 TLs in cyberware, and it has strong
social and political restrictions on it's use.

The Solomani have fewer scruples, however. But rest assured SolSec will be
keeping careful records on any privately-owned implants.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:06:36 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: +D-D (my last word for a while)

Marc wrote:

>If it would work equally well with or without the +D-D, then there is no
>argument against implementing it. That's what equal means (I understand
there
>is an underlying argument for simplicity here), but if it does work EQUALLY
>well either way, then there is no argument against it.

I believe the key word is "if".  Marc, have you had playtesters test it?  If
so, then what did they think?  If not, then why don't we suspend discussions
on this topic until some of us playtest it?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 23:19:13 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: dates in UWPs?

In mail you write:

> How about putting the date in the UWP or in PBG or somewhere on there... I'm
> envisioning someone looking over some stellar data (hmm...  that's First
> Survey data)  that's probably way out of date and messed up (and i'm not
> referring to the book!) ; )  
>   maybe a # before... Some kind of notation?  The 3I based their system 
> off've
> the Vilani's system (which the Rule of Man used too, no?) didn't they?  They
> would be able to tell... "damn... this system hasn't been visited since the
> Long Night."
>    What i'm getting at is not necessarily in the UWP itself, but on a data
> line and in a small format that can fit.  Maybe in the trade codes ... Anyone
> got any ideas?

Maybe a notation for a "comment line"? Say that any line that starts
witha C is a comment and applies to the hex immediately above it. Any C
lines at the very start of the file apply to the whole file. 

This is easy to implement, and it's easy to strip out the comment lines
if you are using software that doesn't recognize them.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 23:02:56 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: missiles, low berths, and other canon...

In mail you write:

> Let me expand on this.  A ship can carry a displacement ton of freight
> and earn kCr 1 on that ton.  Setting aside the space costs nothing, no
> maintenance cost is involved, and the ship can rent the space to itself
> in order to carry speculative cargo that can earn many times that much.
>
> On the other hand, you can fill that displacement ton with a low berth
> that costs kCr 50 to buy, and a couple of hundred credits per trip to
> operate.  A low passenger only pays kCr 1, so you'd be better off with
> freight in the space.  There's two circumstances where low berths make
> sense.  First, if you can get low passengers to fill the space but not
> freight; better kCr 0.8 profit than nothing.  Second, if you *can* use 
> a low berth for freight or speculative cargo -- hauling livestock, for 
> instance.  There aren't any rules I know about covering that case, but
> there are references to using "livestock low berths" equivalent to the
> emergency low berth in both classic Traveller and TNE.

On the other hand, I've always seen low passage as letting the low
berths that you ALREADY HAVE earn some money. Using them for hauling
some animals is possible. Using them as a place to stash small cargo
items is *not* a good idea. Too much chance of damaging something and
too little usable space.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 23:11:27 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: missiles, low berths, and other canon...

In mail you write:

> I think that the word canon is an abomnation that promtly should be put to
> death. The four versions of Traveller ar in my view four different set of
> rules for a science fiction game with a common theme.

That doesn't eliminate "canon". It just gives you 4 different canons.
Canon is, *by definition*, the "sum" of the authoritative works. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #60
*********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Thursday, January 29 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 061



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: +D3-D3
Re: Freelance Traveller - Feedback requested
Re: +D-D Damage (new! with tables!)
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: PBEM Task Resolution
+D-D
Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #53
Re: Mayday scale
+D-D Discussion (renamed)
Re: Astronomy (was Re: sin in traveller?)
Initial colonization considerations
Re: sin in traveller?
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:14:09 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: +D3-D3

Marc wrote:

>In a message dated 98-01-28 10:18:53 EST, you write:
>
><< Whatever you do, Marc, don't make it "+D3 -D3"  :) >>
>
>Let's start a whole new thread and argue the merits of half dice. If I
>remember correctly, one argument against using half dice was they were only
>used in resolving a few tasks. So let's find other ways to implement half
>dice.
>
><facetious mode off>
>
>Marc

Projectile ejection of sparkling effusion designed to quench thirst through
nasal orifices bodes ill for finish of cyberspace interface device.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:25:27 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Freelance Traveller - Feedback requested

As much as I dislike those ads (especially when I click them by mistake), we
live in market driven world.  I'm not opposed to it.

I saw one site (Traveller or related, IIRC) that had ads with a surround
saying something to the effect of, "We are not responsible for this ad and
have no control over it's content.  It's presence here does not reflect an
endorsement of any kind by [host's name], IG or Marc Miller."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:28:52 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: +D-D Damage (new! with tables!)

Marc wrote:

>In a message dated 98-01-28 11:56:49 EST, you write:
>
><< *ADDENDA: Curious, I ran the numbers for D6+D-D. (same as 3d6-7)
> 
>  >>
>shouldn't it be 2d6-7?
>
>Marc

Hey Marc, have you been into the Drug drugs again?  :-)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 23:04:57 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

> >>3) Why carry large ammounts of fuel if all you do is burn it to make a
> >>jump.  Why not use Solar Cells to collect the energy from the nearest
> star,
> >>or use another energy storage medium to hold the energy needed.
> >As far as I understand "all" of the fuel is not burned to start a jump. 
A
> >large quantitiy is used to open the jump field, but that field needs to
be
> >maintained through the entire jump.
> According to current (T4 and IIRC CT) technobabble, you don't burn any of
> the fuel, it is used to create and maintain the "real-space" "jump
bubble".

So when you jump you spray the fuel outside into space around your ship? 
LOL, what a bloody joke.  Next thing they will tell is that when you use
the jump drive the crew & passengers drink the fuel to maintain a "real
space" "jump bubble".  If this is the standard for T4, thank god I quit
buying after MT was ended.  TNE looked like unrealistic garbage.  T4,
sounds like Star Trek.

> >Now, here's an idea to help... first, you have to be able to have Jump
Gate
> >transfer the jump field from itself to the ship passing through. Second,
> you
> >have to be able to maintain the jump field. So, keep the jump drive and
add
> >a device to be able to use the jump field produced by the gate. You
won't
> >need nearly as muc fuel, but you would still need the drive. Another
> >thought, keep the fuel tanks. Convert them to cargo holds, but make it
so
> >they could be sealed and used for fuel. This would allow the ship to be
> >capable of independent jump.
> >I think the jump gates would have to be controlled. Either by
corporations
> >or government.
> >I can see a toll being charged to use the jump gate. Since you will
> probably
> >make more money from increased cargo.
> What's all this talk about Jump Gates?  Is there a book or supplement
that I
> don't know about?  Or, has Bab5 invaded the TML?

Babylon 5 has invaded the TML in the form of me.  I like Babylon 5, you got
a problem with that?

As for a book or supplement that you don't know about, well I had the
thought of placing jump gates into Traveller ever since I bought CT 0, 1,
2, & 3, & thought, "Well if a jump drive weighs so much & uses so much fuel
why not use controlled wormholes?", but we will not get into my background.

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 23:14:29 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

> >According to current (T4 and IIRC CT) technobabble, you don't burn any of
> >the fuel, it is used to create and maintain the "real-space" "jump bubble".
> >
> I don't have the T4 stuff, I play MT. MT is a little different the CT as far
> as how the Jump Drives work. At least that's what I remember. I don't recall
> reading anywhere (Keep in mind I only have MT and books 0-3 of CT) about how
> much and when the fuel is used at what time.

Woohoo, another person who plays MT.

> >What's all this talk about Jump Gates?  Is there a book or supplement
that
> I
> >don't know about?  Or, has Bab5 invaded the TML?
> Jump gates came from the original posted idea from Legate. I don't watch
> Bab5, so I don't totally know what the jump gates Intale. I don't believe
> there are any books out on the subject.

I thought of a form of controlled wormhole a long time ago, but Babylon
5/B5 (I hate Bab5) just gave me the name.  As for what book I used, well I
used what I thought all gamers have, my brain & imagination, looks like I
was wrong.

<rant>
Do gamers need to be spoon fed ideas now a days?  I remember when I started
to game CT many years ago & all you had were the rulebooks (0, 1, 2, 3, 4,
& 5), a sector (Ley Sector from JG & I still have a copy of it), a GM
(Steve Crow, yes the man who helped to write alot of JG products), &
several players.  So what the phuc is up with you gamers today?  You want
all the information spoon fed to you.

Yes, I was a playtester at Judges Guild.  Yes, I lived in Decatur, IL. 
Yes, I know the school in which JG was based out of (Sunnyside).  Yes, I
knew Steve Crow, Rick Randel, Chuck Denning, & Bob Bloodsoe <sp>.  I used
to work at JG as a cashier/gopher for afterschool cash.  I also was a
playtester for some of the stuff that came out of JG.  I also know the real
reason JG went under.  So I am prob. on of the "oldest" gamers on this ML. 
</rant>

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 23:15:15 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

> >Jump gates came from the original posted idea from Legate. I don't watch
> >Bab5, so I don't totally know what the jump gates Intale. I don't believe
> >there are any books out on the subject.
> 
> Would anyone be interested in one?

Yes, if you have the time.

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:48:28 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: PBEM Task Resolution

Stevie D (aka Bloo) <blueboy@bu.edu> wrote:


>I'm trying to start a PBEM campaign with my brother and a friend (the
>most I can handle).  But what to do to simlulate die rolling?  Are there
>any untilities that will allow 2 people on the net see the results of
>the same roll?  We hope to use chat, but I don't trust him to tell me
>his die rolls, and he doesn't trust me.  We are brothers after all.
>
>Any ideas?
>
>Bloo

If you are running the game, you do all the rolling.  When you play my mail
(or email), you never see the rolls, you just get the results.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:57:43 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: +D-D

Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote:

>Actually, as has been pointed out, you can simplify things to:
>
>add 2 dice to the number of dice rolled.
>add dice together
>subtract 7

I know Marc said this wasn't as intuitive, but I think that if he insists on
including the +D-D he could at least foot note the above.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 00:50:30 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...

> > Are we talking about High Explosive weapons here?  If so what is not to
> > belive about then & why were they not used?
> You should probably quote a *little* of the text you refer to
> (admittadly requests usually run the other way around :-) since I'm
> not sure what you mean.

Actually, I had lost the thought of the thread a while back.

> Oh, I *do* know what you mean! HE has been thrown around for "High
> Energy" weapons. This refers to Plasma and Fusion guns. Specifically
> for use on spacecraft.

Fine.  I thought you meant High Explosive weapons.  As such I was going to
say something smart & witty, but I can't now. ;<)

> -Merrick

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 02:04:55 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote:

<snip>
>With STL travel *all* trips are "one way". Even if it takes only a few
>years ship time, it's going to take *decades* each way. The folks who
>sent you off will likely be *dead* before you return.
>
>And given the fuel required, the colony won't be *able* to send the
>ship back.

With a Bussard ram scoop on the new design, if one of the auxiliaries were
streamlined and equipped with scoops, they could refuel the ship.  Even if
the destination were 15 LY away, the return trip would be let's say 17 years
there, 6 years to unload, 17 years back, 40 years, maybe some of the people
who sent you would still be there.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 98 01:49:16 PST
From: "Marcus & Lurann Teter" <galileo@montana.campus.mci.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #53

>Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:31:42 +0000
>From: Phil Kitching <PhilK@btinternet.com>
>Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations II
>
>>Date: Tue, 27 Jan 98 23:48:29 PST
>>From: "Marcus & Lurann Teter" <galileo@montana.campus.mci.net>
>
><snip>
<snip myown ramblings>

>>  An alternative would be to construct greenhouses capable of
>>growning the earth organisms (it could work, but I havn't thought out the
>>implications of such a plan).
>
>for the really cautious, I would suggest designing the ship so that once in
>orbit it can be converted to an extended large animal ecosystem.
>That way you can leave some colonists and animals and plants on the ship
>where they could survive any problems with your chosen colony sites.
>
>If your planet does not have artifical womb technology, risking losing an
>irreplaceable herd (or all your colonists) to an unexpected biological
>problemwould seem silly when you have a prefectly good isolated
"greenhouse"
>in orbit.

<snip>
Phil,

Good idea.  I hadn't thought of that.  Such a system would be an excellent
failsafe in case of disaster.  Even though the eventual goal would be to
establish a colony on the surface, having the ability to produce food while
sourting out the adaption to the world is a tremendous advantage.  This has
to be considered a high priority item.  If it were capable of supporting
about 100 people, it would be able to support the scientific staff prior to
colonists awakining from cold sleep.  It would relax the need to get people
on the ground to produce food at arrival.  Thus, some of the major problems
can be sourted out prior to a single colonist being put at risk.

Marcus

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:27:48 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Mayday scale

>Hi,
>
>I have the first edition of Mayday (ziploc bag) which specifies 100 minute
>turns, and omits a hex scale.  From a 100 minute turn and 10m/s/s unit of
>acceleration, the hex scale would be 180,000 km (6 BL/BR hexes).

Sorry but the way to calculate hexes from gameturn lengths (if you want 1G
equalling 1 hex of vector change that is) is hex = a*t^2 not the physics
textbook s = 0.5*a*t^2.
Why is that? Do some gameturns of contiuous acceleration and check
distances travelled:
Turn    Speed   Distance        s=0.5*t^2
1       1       1               0.5
2       2       1+2=3           2
3       3       3+3=6           4.5
4       4       6+4=10          8
5       5       10+5=15         12.5
6       6       15+6=21         18
7       7       21+7=28         24.5
etc
Notice that s=0.5*a*t^2 approaches Distance when playing over several gameturns.
If s=0.5*a*t^2 formula was used the ships would travel half as far as they
would in reality over several gameturns and as MayDay et al are played over
several gameturns the correct formula is s = a*t^2 or as the actual case
is:
Each gameturn the ship increases speed with

dV = a*t

and then it travels at that new speed for the turn:

s = dV * t = a * t * t = a * t^2

As the timescale given was 100 minutes = 6000 s and we round 9.81 to 10
m/s^2 then each hex represents 10 * 6000^2 = 360 000 km or about 1
lightsecond.
Hopefully somebody understand this as when I read it myself it seems more
convoluted than necessary. The compact version of the above is:
If gameturn = t then each hex of acceleration a should be s = a * t^2
                                                          ===========


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:11:52 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: +D-D Discussion (renamed)

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/29/98 09:11 AM

Thinking about this overnight... if the purpose of the +D-D rule is to
extend the range of possible damage results, then for combat this could be
achieved the same way that many other systems do it, i.e. by critical hits
(you do more or better damage) or fumbles (something bad happens). I see
two advantages to this approach:

1) The concept is already familiar to most gamers, one less thing to
learn/remember.

2) Potentially it eliminates a step, as the critical hit/fumble is
determined by the 'to hit' score rather than by rolling +D-D. You have to
roll to hit anyhow...

Comments?
Andy

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 00:41:15 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Astronomy (was Re: sin in traveller?)

"Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net> wrote

> HAL writes:
> 
> >  Considering that no one responded to my question about planets
> >orbitting M class stars too dim to permit a habitable zone
> >At the moment,
> >I am wondering if a new "trade" class should be created labled ICE WORLD,

> >  This way, I can now attempt to justify why there are some millions of
> >people on an M9 class star that is supposed to be one of the founding
> >planets of the Sylean federation/Third Imperium.  I can't justify an
> >oxygen bearing earth like atmosphere on a world where there never was a
> >chance for life bearing oxygen creating plants. 

>    OK, let me bottom line it for you.  All weak and not so weak attempts
> at handwaving aside (sorry Mr. Backman), the system used to generate
> star systems is ***broken***. 
> Years ago it was realized that the tables used to generate stellar > data resulted in an inordinate number of white dwarfs,
> bright stars, and systems like you describe that have Earth-like planets
> that orbit stars that do not have practical habitable zones.  
> 
>    Nothing was done about it.  Why?  Astronomy as a subject is boring to  most people. 
>    There have been a brave few who have suggested fixes for all the
> **broken** data that was generated using the **broken** star system
> generation sequence, and their fixes have appeared here on TML and
> elsewhere.  During the TNE era, GDW even went so far as to publish one
> in Challenge that was created by Geo Gelinas, but it was a partial
> solution at best.  
>    "T4" of course has for the most part dodged the issue by not
> publishing stellar data at all.  Well except in First Survey...
> 
>    There is a new star system generation system created for "T4" waiting
> in the wings, ready for publication.  Because it deals with Astronomy
> however, and is therefore less important than whether there were three
> or four megacorps at the time that Imperial scouts first entered the
> Spinward Marches, you'll probably never see it.

I hope that you are being too pesamistic here but I suspect that you are
right Harold.

Please publish it, or make it available, yourself if nothing else.

I think that we need to have an accurate star generation system in
Traveller for two basic reasons.

1) Willing suspension of disbelief in the current, inaccurate, system
severely strains my mind.

2) One of the things I like best about Traveller (besides playing
slightly eccentric charecters) is creating worlds.  I prefer to do this
using MT's World Builders Handbook.  Almost all the times I create
planets, even ones that are purportedly in the "habitable" zone I end up
with them having an average temperature of -113º C or 71º C.  I usually
end up having to 1) change the planets orbit 2) really mess with its
greenhouse effect or 3) explain how the temperature has affected the
society.

I would like to see a backwards compatible accurate system generation
method.  It would need to say something like "This planet C 567123-9 is
habitable and therefore it probably orbits a star of this stellar range,
roll on this table" and "This planet C213567-9 is not habitable,
therefore roll its sun up on _this_ table."

I feel very strongly about this subject, I am tired of constantly
handwaving away iceworlds.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:57:25 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Initial colonization considerations

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/29/98 09:57 AM

<<Bruce Johnson wrote:
Uhhh...the woman who couldn't be convinced that having a large family is
good won't be selected to go. The preferred age spread and birth frequency
are _very_ temporal things in any culture, and a colony is going to be
composed of people who want large families.
>>
Especially if the colony is being founded by a Hi pop world that wants to
eat into its population growth problem. (Yes I know you can't ship 'em
offplanet fast enough. But it's psychologically important, and it does
eventually make a bit of difference).
Andy

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:11:12 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: sin in traveller?

>   OK, let me bottom line it for you.  All weak and not so weak attempts
>at handwaving aside (sorry Mr. Backman), the system used to generate
>star systems is ***broken***.  Actually, it was never *not* broken.
>Years ago it was realized that the tables used to generate stellar data
>(which first appeared in "Book 6: Scouts" and were reprinted in each new
>edition of Traveller) resulted in an inordinate number of white dwarfs,
>bright stars, and systems like you describe that have Earth-like planets
>that orbit stars that do not have practical habitable zones.
>
>   Nothing was done about it.  Why?  Astronomy as a subject is boring to
>most people.  They would much rather spend their time debating the
>relative merits of kinetic-kill missiles versus nuclear-powered
>proximity blast laser types, whether or not tasks should use 1 die, 2
>dice, or 3, what the effects are of near-C rocks, why Virus is
>impossible using 20th century computer technology, or why Americans are
>barbarians/the last freedom loving people on Earth because they allow
>private gun ownership--you know, the *really* important stuff.

Look at Leroy Guatneys site at:

http://ouray.cudenver.edu/~lwlguatn/astro.html

or more specifically at

http://ouray.cudenver.edu/~lwlguatn/SF/egs.html

for a good attempt at both teaching Travellers about some astronomy
concepts as well as trying to fix the generation tables in Scouts and its
descendants.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 02:54:21 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Legate wrote:

[snip]

>Well my reasoning behind this is a little kown rule from CT-High Guard &
>MT.  That when the jump capacitors of a ship are filled then that ship my
>jump.  It does not say that you needed to use the fuel or not.  When in
>doubt don't modify.
[snip]

I don't know about MT, but there is no such rule in CT-High Guard.  I don't
recall it ever being spelled out but the understanding I had then was much
the same as in T4.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 04:17:37 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Legate said:

>>>What's all this talk about Jump Gates?  Is there a book or 
>>>supplement that I don't know about?  Or, has Bab5 
>>>invaded the TML?

>>Jump gates came from the original posted idea from 
>>Legate. I don't watch Bab5, so I don't totally know what the 
>>jump gates Intale. I don't believe there are any books out on 
>>the subject.
>
>I thought of a form of controlled wormhole a long time ago, ...

If so, so what?

>but Babylon 5/B5 (I hate Bab5) ...

So what?  You don't seem to care about our sensitivities, why 
should be care about yours?  B5 means High Guard and 
everyone knew what I was talking about.

>just gave me the name.  As 
>for what book I used, well I used what I thought all gamers have, 
>my brain & imagination, looks like I was wrong.

Only about using your brain.  I was only looking for more 
information.  And someone else (who's name has been snipped
was only giving it to me.

><rant>

Hey you put the rant warning in the wrong place it should have 
been before the last paragraph.

>Do gamers need to be spoon fed ideas now a days?

You obviously haven't been on the list long or you wouldn't ask 
such a question.

>I remember when I started 
>to game CT many years ago & all you had were the rulebooks 
>(0, 1, 2, 3, 4, & 5), ...

Ummm, I hate to tell you this, but B0 didn't have any rules in it.

>a sector (Ley Sector from JG & I still have a copy of it), ...

What's your point?  Lot's of us have rare and/or obscure pieces 
of Traveller litterature.

>a GM (Steve Crow, yes the man who helped to write alot of JG 
>products), & several players.  ...

So what, I know Lenard Nimoy.  That doesn't make me a Vulcan.
I've palled around with Larry Niven, Bob Asprin, CJ Cherri, 
David Brin, Bob Shaw, Piers Anthony, Robert Silverberg,
Poul Anderson, (I could go, the list is quite extesive, on but I 
won't.), that doesn't make me an author.  It helped, but knowing 
them didn't make me an writer.

>So what the phuc is up 
>with you gamers today?  You want all the information spoon fed 
>to you.

In case you didn't notice, you are speaking in a public forum.  And
I know for a fact there are ladies present.  Changing the spelling
doesn't change the meaning or crassness of using such language.

>Yes, I was a playtester at Judges Guild.  ...

Again I ask, so what?

>Yes, I lived in Decatur, IL. 
>Yes, I know the school in which JG was based out of (Sunnyside). 
>Yes, I knew Steve Crow, Rick Randel, Chuck Denning, & Bob 
>Bloodsoe <sp>.  I used to work at JG as a cashier/gopher for after
>school cash.  I also was a playtester for some of the stuff that came 
>out of JG.  

So what, many on this list advise Marc on a regular basis (he doesn't
always see things our way, but I know he always listens).

>I also know the real reason JG went under.  So I am prob. on of the 
>"oldest" gamers on this ML. 

Again I ask, so what?  You act like a child.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 03:33:36 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Legate wrote:


>>>>3) Why carry large ammounts of fuel if all you do is burn it to 
>>>>make a jump.  Why not use Solar Cells to collect the energy 
>>>>from the nearest star, or use another energy storage 
>>>>medium to hold the energy needed.

>>>As far as I understand "all" of the fuel is not burned to start a 
>>>jump.  A large quantitiy is used to open the jump field, but 
>>>that field needs to be maintained through the entire jump.

>>According to current (T4 and IIRC CT) technobabble, you 
>>don't burn any of the fuel, it is used to create and maintain 
>>the "real-space" "jump bubble".

>So when you jump you spray the fuel outside into space around 
>your ship?  LOL, what a bloody joke.  Next thing they will tell is 
>that when you use the jump drive the crew & passengers drink 
>the fuel to maintain a "real space" "jump bubble".  If this is the 
>standard for T4, thank god I quit buying after MT was ended.  
>TNE looked like unrealistic garbage.  T4, sounds like Star Trek.


ok, kid, listen up!  You asked a question.  You got a civil 
answer and a civil add on.  Then you made fun of the replies.  
If you don't like talking with adults, you don't have to stay on 
the list.


[snip]

>>What's all this talk about Jump Gates?  Is there a book or 
>>supplement that I don't know about?  Or, has Bab5 
>>invaded the TML?
>
>Babylon 5 has invaded the TML in the form of me.  I like 
>Babylon 5, you got a problem with that?
>
Lighten up kid, I meant it facetiously.  I don't think that any
of us have any problem with Bab5 references.  It was a good
show and many of us enjoyed it very much.

>As for a book or supplement that you don't know about, well 
>I had the thought of placing jump gates into Traveller ever 
>since I bought CT 0, 1, 2, & 3, & thought, "Well if a jump drive 
>weighs so much & uses so much fuel why not use controlled 
>wormholes?", but we will not get into my background.

One last note, the drives described in the basic CT rules had 
no weight (or mass for that matter), only volume.  'Nuff said.  ;-)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 02:03:37 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

> > Commodore BASIC was hands-down the easiest, with Applesoft somewhere in
> > between.
> 
> Did you ever try TIBASIC (Texas Instruments) for use on the infamous TI-99- 4A
> (which was eventually sold at retail stores for $10 US.  That was easy for this
> then 12-year old.  :-)
> 
> Bloo
> 


I remember TI Basic as being different then all the rest.  It had some
pretty odd ways of doing things.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #61
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Thursday, January 29 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 062



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Gravity Shields
Canon thoughts
sin in Traveller?
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Decompression/T4.1 Hit System
nD+D-D Considered
Re: missiles, low berths, and other canon...
Re: missiles, low berths, and other canon...
Re: Canon thoughts
Re: Thoughts on jump drive
Medical Tech in MT
Re: Initial colony considerations II
Re: FFS2 Jump Energy ?
Re: PBEM Task Resolution
My FF&S2 Spreadsheet...new version available.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 04:19:39 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

>>>Jump gates came from the original posted idea from Legate.
>>>I don't watch Bab5, so I don't totally know what the jump gates 
>>>Intale. I don't believe there are any books out on the subject.
>> 
>> Would anyone be interested in one?
>
>Yes, if you have the time.

Anyone else?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 02:21:40 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Gravity Shields

I was wondering, in high enough tech level, could a ship use layers of
gravity as shields?  Would these waves of gravity be able to bend the
trajectories of beam weapons and missles away from the ship?  what
limitations would there be?  And how would this effect the ship in
question?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:36:33 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Canon thoughts

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/29/98 10:36 AM

<<Eris wrote:
Where and when did the *fact* of "peace maintained by squadrons of huge
Battleships" take
hold?  It wasn't apparent in the 3 LLBs, it wasn't in the CT adventures,
and as you say it wasn't in HG.  I haven't gone back and checked JTAS, did
it take hold after the FFW?  Was it during the MT era that the
multi-hundred thousand ton BBs became orthodox?
>>

IIRC it was in Supplement 8, Library Data, that the first mention of the
Battle Rider/Battleship argument was mentioned. The tone was that the
Imperial Navy had for a long time been using BBs, but in the last few
decades had switched over to BRs.

In CT it made a big difference to ship cost whether a ship was jump-capable
or not. Later versions of the rules made the cost difference less
important, but the bigger hulls, new armour and weapons (especially spinal
mounts), and power plant rules gave a real combat performance advantage to
SDBs (an idea first mentioned sometime around JTAS 7 in the original "SDB"
article). So ton for ton, an SDB/BR has always been better, either because
it costs less or has more teeth.

Until, that is, you start losing the battle. Now your BRs/SDBs have to
either go to ground, find a fragile mothership and dock before it jumps
(under fire), or surrender. Your battleships jump out, and live to fight
again.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:18:56 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: sin in Traveller?

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/29/98 10:18 AM

<<Harold D Hale writes:
There is no reason for the star system generation sequences to be as
broken as they are (c.1995) except laziness and total lack of interest
on the part of certain individuals.  A better system (one that took
scientific reality and game playability in mind) *should* have been
introduced but wasn't.
>>
IMHO, what players are interested in is hexes and mainworld stats. At least
mine are. I spent years fidgeting with system generation rules and
programmes, and eventually concluded that Marc had this important stuff
right all along. If anyone wants an explanation for it now, I do a handwave
that says "we only show habitable worlds, and those orbit single
main-sequence stars with luminosities between 0.4 and 2.0. That's about 5%
of stars, and the maps don't show the rest because nobody goes there"; and
another handwave that says "you travel through jumpspace, and the nature of
jumpspace is such that it is OK to represent it as a 2D map". I had some
technobabble for that once, but then I came up against an astrophysicist
who out technobabbled me, so I gave up. :-)

The implications of the handwaves are that (1) a hex is probably 3-4
parsecs instead of one in my game, and (2) that a sufficiently determined
jump-1 ship captain can cross, or hide in, empty hexes by wilderness
refuelling at gas giants and iceballs. If he can find out where they are...
it ain't canon, but it works for me, and without making any real difference
to the game.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:50:55 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:56:41 -0600, Glenn Hoppe wrote:

> If better low end resolution is required, why not just introduce weapons
> with damage ratings such as the following? (roughly ascending):
> 
> dice rolled:      d3-d3    d3     d6-d6     d6-d3      d6
> Damage value:     0.5-     0.5     1-1        1-        1

                     0-3     1-3     0-6       0-6       1-6
                      0       2       0        1.5       3.5
You forgot average values and ranges:

This could work.  I'd limit it to simply d3 damage weapons and do away with
the extra "+D -D" stuff that I don't particularly like (There-- I admit
it!).

> I still don't see the point of rolling extra dice just to randomize
> further a damage value that is already random. Or am *I* missing
> something...

Glenn's got a good point (I feel like Gilligan :)

True, it does modify the bell curve of the various dice combinations.  But
I don't believe that this is what Marc wishes (otherwise, the rule would
apply *all* dice rolls-- including tasks).



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mono au mono, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:50:57 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:31:17 EST, CardSharks wrote:

> In a message dated 98-01-28 10:32:44 EST, you write:
> 
> << > You are trying to compromise. You mean, I don't like it. Don't include
> it.
>  
>  I don't think Andrew is trying to compromise the system at all (although I
> >>
> 
> I didn';t say trying to compromise the system. I said trying to compromise.
> Either the rules improvement works or it doesn't. When someone says "make it
> an option." he or she means... "I don't like it; leave it out." Saying that it
> could be an option is damning it with faint praise.

He could also be saying that "Some players may not like it; make it
optional so that the rules junkies can still include it in their
campaigns."

> Either it works or it doesn't. Either it fits or it doesn't. Saying keep it as
> an option is looking for excuses to not use it.

Of course.  But if leaving out a rule "that works" speeds up game play, why
not make it optional?  This may be an excuse, but it is a valid one.

> Instead, there should be straightforward arguments that it doesn't work,
> supported by logic.

OK.  I will base further discussion purely on the rule's technical merit.

> <<What I believe he is saying
> is that the damage system would work equally well with or without the "+D
> -D" rule so why not make it an-- albeit, possibly quite popular-- optional
> rule?>>
> 
> If it would work equally well with or without the +D-D, then there is no
> argument against implementing it. That's what equal means (I understand there
> is an underlying argument for simplicity here), but if it does work EQUALLY
> well either way, then there is no argument against it.

Yes there is an argument against implementing it.  Star Fleet Battles is an
excellent board/table-top game.  It has a whole slew of rules that are all
excellent in themselves and which work together as well.  But with so many
rules to digest, some of them were given the tag: "optional".  This wasn't
an excuse not to use an excellent rule or two.  It was intended to allow
players to choose the level of complexity that they wanted to use.



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mono au mono, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 05:53:13 -0500 (EST)
From: neo@total.net (Glenn Grant)
Subject: Re: Decompression/T4.1 Hit System

Stevie D (aka Bloo) <blueboy@bu.edu> said,

>Glenn Grant wrote:
>
>> Another problem is ebullism - see my accompanying post on vac exposure. Gas
>> bubbles in the blood might kill a PC even if recompression is quickly
>> achieved. Survival would perhaps require a test of END, difficulty
>> depending on how long the PC was exposed to vac. Even if this test is
>> failed, the PC might still survive if treated immediately by another PC:
>> Difficult test of Medical, with bonuses if a sick bay or autodoc is nearby.
>
>Wouldn't one of these in the brain be fatal?

I'm not a doctor, but as I understand it, gas bubbles in the blood can be
deadly. But, I suspect, not always. I understand that 'the bends' can be
excruciatingly painful, but is usually survivable.

I also assume that a TL12 sickbay has some method [hands waving furiously]
of dealing with ebullism in the few minutes available before a gas bubble
gets into your brain and kills you.

>> Finally, you might note that exposure to vacuum for more than ten seconds
>> will break a lot of capillaries in the skin,
>
>Same question about the brain.

"Vac burn" is just a form of surface bruising. Shouldn't affect the brain
at all. A serious case will make you pretty ugly, however. Hence my
comment:

>> Any exposed area of skin ends up looking like the nose of an
>> aging rummy.

>> I can imagine a lot of interesting implants and body mods intended to
>> increase vacuum survivability. For instance, those who live and work in
>> space might have modified skin, or an implanted subcutaneous layer, which
>> acts like the pressure garment in a VacSuit, to limit ebullism.
>
>Peter Hamilton's recent SF books have older spacers with almost completely
>artificial bodies, able to operate without a vac suit.

Seems highly probable to me. Especially on vacuum worlds and belt mining
colonies.

>WRT implants, given the fascination of some with bionic and cybernetic
>implants,
>replacements, prosthetics etc, I'm kind of suprised we haven't seen a
>supplement
>along these lines, indexed by TL.  After all, if we can use artificial hearts
>to
>day, what about TL 12?  State of the art prosthetic hands give temperature and
>pressure sensors.  When can I get my superdense-alloy skeleton with requiste
>retractable claws?  :-)

Agreed. I'm slowly putting together a list of such body mods for my game. I
plan to provide opportunities for the PCs to acquire them during chargen. A
failed Injury roll, for instance, might result in a prosthetic arm. Note,
however, that limb regeneration is TL 11 and thus fairly common in
Traveller. For someone to chose an artificial limb or organ, it would have
to have expanded capabilities, such as you suggest.

The fun thing with retractable claws, of course, is when you roll a
Spectacular Failure and they get stuck, extended. There's an incidental
character in Jack Womack's novel _Elvissey_ who is an obvious parody of
Bill Gibson's "Molly"; her finger-blades won't retract any more, and she
can't afford to get them fixed. This makes the simplest actions, such as
opening doors or typing, virtually impossible and extremely hazardous.
Hilariously sick guy, that Womack.

 + GMG +

    -----------------------Glenn Grant-----------------------  
                         <neo@total.net>
    Web: <http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/ggrant.html>
        "...a starship, a robot, two sex toys, and a gun:
      the raw, heady essence of interstellar civilization."
                        --Kenji Schwarz

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 05:53:19 -0500 (EST)
From: neo@total.net (Glenn Grant)
Subject: nD+D-D Considered

Marc,

I've been following the discussion of nD+D-D with much interest. After some
consideration, I've decided I'm not keen on this new damage rule.

Let's consider the pros and cons...

PROS:

1) nD+D-D adds a bit of realism: it means that even a 1D weapon can
sometimes do up to 11 points damage. And sometimes it will glance off a
belt buckle or some such, doing no damage. But most of the time, it will
still do 1 to 6 points damage.

2) It's easy enough to remember, whether as nD+D-D, or nD+2D-7.

I can't think of any other pros.

CONS:

1) nD+D-D adds a bit of realism...and no small amount of unnecessary
complication. What used to be one roll, added up, becomes one roll, added
up, then another roll, subtracted. But the results are *usually* within the
normal range. Extra effort expended for something that usually has no
effect.

2) According to the odds table (posted by Richard Flores, IIRC), it means
that a "hit" with a 1D weapon is about as likely to do no damage at all as
any other amount from 1 to 6. Hmmmm.

3) For a 2D weapon, it means you're *more likely* to do zero points than
any other value below 5 (IIRC - I no longer have the table for reference).
The probability curve makes no sense. Why is "no damage" more likely than
"a little damage", but less likely than "a lot of damage"?

4) For a high-damage weapon, the effect is barely noticeable. Why bother?

5) If you roll to hit and succeed (and your hit penetrates armor), you
should do damage. Discovering, after you've succeeded in hitting your
opponant, that you didn't do any damage, would be really annoying:

   Ref:    "Roll to hit"
           [Rattle rattle]
   Player: "Yay!"
   Ref:    "You hit him! Roll damage."
           [Rattle rattle]
   Ref:    "You do... er... no damage."
   Player: "I don't like this game any more..."

6) Grazing blows and critical hits should really be a part of the roll to
hit. Indeed, critical hits already are, as Spectacular Successes. Grazing
hits can be much more easily implemented; forex: "Any roll to hit that
exactly equals the TN is a grazing hit, doing 1D reduced damage." Or some
such.

7) T4 already has a rule for intentionally reduced damage and intentional
extra damage hits, the Aimed Attack for Increased Damage or Decreased
Damage. Thus, nD+D-D is redundant, if implemented as an option at the
attacker's discretion (as implied by one of your recent posts. It wasn't
clear if that's what you intended to imply, though.)

8) T4 already has a rule for glancing blows: hit dice are reduced by armor.
A hit with a 1D or 2D weapon against an opponant with r3 armor will be
deflected or absorbed. Thus nD+D-D is an attempt to add something that is
already there in the rules.

9) How *does* nD+D-D integrate with reduction of damage due to armor? Not
very well, IMO. If a 1D weapon hits r1 armor, is the damage entirely
negated? Or does the attacker still get to roll the extra +D-D? Or:
consider a PC wearing r1 armor who is hit by a 2D weapon: 1D is absorbed,
the second die is rolled, but then the +D-D eliminates the damage
completely; suggesting that this r1 armor absorbed all the damage from a 2D
weapon! The armor/penetration rules in T4 are, I feel, one of its most
elegant and sensible features. nD+D-D confuses an otherwise beautifully
simple system.

10) How does nD+D-D integrate with the Blow-Through Rule? Damage from most
projectile weapons is limited to 3D, the rest is wasted. If you take damage
from a 3D weapon, can you still take extra damage from the +D-D? Or is it
wasted?

11) Extra dice to be rolled in a combat system already freighted with too
many dice.

12) I use a Hit Location chart, which can result in reduced damage due to
incidental hits (belt buckles, etc), or increased damage due to internal
bleeding, etc. So nD+D-D is redundantly reduntant, at least for me.

Considering all the above, I feel that nD+D-D adds a small amount of
realism, usually to no noticeable effect, is an unnecessary complication,
adds features that are already present in the rules, adds extra rolls to
the combat system for little gain, and does not integrate well with the
armor/penetration rules.

It's an interesting idea, Marc, but on careful consideration, I must
suggest you leave it out.

Keep the ideas coming, though. It's always cool to see what you're working on.

Best,

 + GMG +

    -----------------------Glenn Grant-----------------------  
                         <neo@total.net>
    Web: <http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/ggrant.html>
        "...a starship, a robot, two sex toys, and a gun:
      the raw, heady essence of interstellar civilization."
                        --Kenji Schwarz

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:44:46 +0100 (MET)
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
Subject: Re: missiles, low berths, and other canon...

On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Richard A. Flores wrote:

> Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no> wrote:
> 
> >I think that the word canon is an abomnation that promtly should be put to
> >death. ...
> 
> Some of us like canon.

Yes, but some of use don't :-) My point was that after twenty years the
game is bound to change because the writers of the new material dosn't
have the capabilities to have a complete overview of everything that has
been published before. So they make the rules the way that is logical to
them. 
 
> >The four versions of Traveller ar in my view four different set of
> >rules for a science fiction game with a common theme. The storyline is
> >IMHO not dependent on the use of KKM, HEPlaR, Thruster Plates,
> >Plasma/Fusion Guns, Laser. ...
> 
> In some cases your humble opion is wrong.  In some cases the storyline
> cannot be carried without [insert canon element of your choice]!  Those guys
> who like to fight in close are a good example.

How can my opinion be wrong? All you have to do is make up some handwave
that gives this race the ability to fight down and dirty. I didn't say
that the way it is in T4 is the ONLY way, I tried to convey that maybe we
should see it from a writers point of view and not only from the fan point
of view.

> >The few things that is needed to conserve the
> >storyline (Jump being one) has been keept. If you want the CT flauver on
> >your Traveller use CT, you want MT use MT, and so on.
> 
> So what if I can't find (or afford) CT, MT, ETC, any more?
 
Then either you fight like you do now to change Traveller into what you
want it to be, or you buy some game that is more in line with your views
on how a sci-fi game should be. I have no problem with that. I was trying
to put forth my opinion on way these technological devices had been left
out.

> Your post made me sore.  You didn't sound very humble.  You sounded snotty!
> Like your opinion is the only one that matters.  Maybe I'm reading more than
> what was there, but...  Maybe I should just shut up.

I in no way intended to imply that my view was the only one correct. I
simply wanted to state what I say as the writers position, to somewhat be
their voice in the discussion. If I sounded snotty, I apologize. It might
be that my limited vocabulary sometimes comes in the way of what I want to
say. English is my secondary language.
 

Tommy Grav                  tommy.grav@astro.uio.no    
Institute of Astrophysics   http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/
University in Oslo          "If you value your lives, be somwhere 
Norway                       else!" - Ambassador Delenn B5 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:51:39 +0100 (MET)
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
Subject: Re: missiles, low berths, and other canon...

On Wed, 28 Jan 1998, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> In mail you write:
> 
> > I think that the word canon is an abomnation that promtly should be put to
> > death. The four versions of Traveller ar in my view four different set of
> > rules for a science fiction game with a common theme.
> 
> That doesn't eliminate "canon". It just gives you 4 different canons.
> Canon is, *by definition*, the "sum" of the authoritative works. 

I agree with this, but sometimes I have the feeling that canon comes in
the way of the roleplaying, the imagination. That (and some lack of sleep)
prompted the rather harse response above.  

> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)

Tommy Grav                  tommy.grav@astro.uio.no    
Institute of Astrophysics   http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/
University in Oslo          "If you value your lives, be somwhere 
Norway                       else!" - Ambassador Delenn B5 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:58:07 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Canon thoughts

Eris Reddoch writes:
>Merrick, this isn't a shot, it's a serious question. Where and when did
>the *fact* of "peace maintained by squadrons of huge Battleships" take
>hold? 

The primary source would be _Fighting Ships_ which details half a dozen
battleships with an average tonnage of around 300,000. _Trillion Credit
Squadron_ helped by showing the huge budgets a fair-sized planet would
be able to spend on warships. (Before TCS ships were a lot smaller; see
my .sig for an example).

>Wasn't AHL about 10,000 tons?  I remember that as being a *huge* ship, it
>was a full-blown cruiser in my time!  Heck, to me, a BB would be 20 to 30
>ktons, not ten times that volume!

AHL was 60,000 T and was a heavy cruiser. Battleships start around 100,000
T and go up from there. Tigresses were 500,000 T.
 

      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "A  subsector  official  pompously states that the
        subsector  armed  forces  have  four Kinunir class
        ships in service,  each with enough troop strength
        to put down any military operations that threathen
        the peace of the Imperium."

                        ---Adventure 1, The Kinunir

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 13:05:40 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on jump drive

"Legate" <legate@futureone.com> writes:

>Well my reasoning behind this is a little kown rule from CT-High Guard &
>MT.  That when the jump capacitors of a ship are filled then that ship my
>jump.  It does not say that you needed to use the fuel or not.

Yes it does. Well, I won't positively claim that there is no place where
it dosen't mention the fuel, but the one place I recall seeing the rule
about a ship being able to jump if its capacitors had been filled by
absorbing incoming fire, it continues '...provided it has the fuel'. In
other words, _none_ of the jump fuel is used to provide the power needed
to jump. This was the basis for the alternate suggestion some months ago
that jump fuel isn't use as fuel at all, but in some way to open a 'bubble'
in jumpspace where the ship can enter. (BTW. did FF&S2 use this idea or
ignore it?). IMO this is the explanation that comes closest to resolving
the various problems with the CT jump drive.
 

      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 04:06:34 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Medical Tech in MT

Several people asked for a description of medical tech in MT.  The
following comes from the MT Referee's Manual, the Referee's Companion and
DG's Traveller's Digest #12-14

TL 9: Limb Regeneration: slow, regrowing an arm takes 15 months
      Cryonic Suspension

TL 10 Full-body cloning (ie grow a physical duplicate) This is done using 
      artificial wombs.  Growth quickening for cloning and limb 
      regeneration (10x speed, regrow an arm in 45 days, grow a child from
      single cell to newborn in 27 days)

TL 11 Nerve refusion (repair spinal cords and attach artificial eyes, limbs 
      and other cybernetic prosthetics directly into the user's nervous 
      system (neural jacks are also possible, but DG rules that they didn't
      offer significant advantages over other methods of computer or 
      vehicle operation).

TL 12 X50 rate growth quickening (regrowing an arm now takes only 9 days)

TL 13 X100 growth quickening (an arm takes only 4.5 days to regrow)
      Organ cloning (ie you can clone just a heart or an eye and then
      attach it, rather than having to clone the whole being.  
      Reanimation of the recently dead also become available at TL 13

TL 14 Full Genetic Engineering (ie you can no custom-make an organism, 
      while genetic engineering has been available since TL 8 at TL 14 it 
      can now be used to create anything which is biologically possible, at 
      will.  Memory Erasure is also introduced at TL 14, all of a 
      subject's memory of certain time periods can now be permanently 
      erased (erasing only specific people or events is only possible at 
      TL 17).

Enjoy-


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 13:28:49 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Initial colony considerations II

Richard A. Flores writes:
>In colonial settings large families are quite common.  I was thinking that
>an inital ratio of 1 man 4 women and perhaps thier children (if any). 

The ratio of women to men would be determined by whatever social mores the
parent society espoused far more than the optimum for a new colony (By
parent society I mean whatever segment of the society that pays for the
ship, not necessarily the majority).

>If the women carried 2 or 3 of the unborn colonists at a time, they could
>reduce the time to full population by that much more.  I know there will be
>a slighly higher danger factor, but for TL 10, that should not be much.

As I said in my first post, with other assumptions you can get some really
gross growth rates. However, under such circumstances another limiting
factor would apply: How fast the adults can develop the colony's ability
to support the new children. No use having triplets every year if they'll
just starve to death. Finally, a new society will need a lot of different
skill (especially one going to a completely unknown planet). I don't think
any SLT colony could afford to let half the population be mere birth
machines. The females of such a colony would IMO have been selected for
high skills as well as everything else and would have to schedule their
pregnancies to allow them to apply those skills.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:47:10 +0000
From: Phil Kitching <PhilK@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: FFS2 Jump Energy ?

>Date: Thu, 29 Jan 98 04:18 
>From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
>Subject: Re: FFS2 Jump Energy ?
>
>Moin Ian or Katts,
>
>> Ummm, Michael, you are thinking TNE again. FFS2 p12 puts the power needed
>> to maintain a jump bubble at 0.252 MW per displacement ton, or 25 MW per
>> 100 dtons. 500 dtons therefore requires 125 MW to maintain the jump bubble.
>
>	TNE did'nt had such a rule, and I dont have FFS2.  Was'nt there
>	something said at 64kJoule ? This would give a preperation of 74
>	minutes for 2 parsec with 200MW power.
>
you are allowed a max of 60 minutes in FFS2. I think 252MW is the magic
number.

This has been with us since J2 required PP2 in LBB days <cryptic grin>.

I'm sure FFS2 also had the requirement to keep that level of power whilst
in jump.
But I havn't got FFS2 at work so treat that statement as a wild guess.

Phil Kitching
- --
  Mailto:Philk@btinternet.com (don't blame BT - they only pay me:)
  Why shoot at a Vargr ship without warning?
  If the captain doesn't put his head out of the window, it must be a
  pirate trying to achieve surprise :)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 07:06:22 -0700
From: "Suz Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: PBEM Task Resolution

> I'm trying to start a PBEM campaign with my brother and a friend (the
> most I can handle).  But what to do to simlulate die rolling?  Are there
> any untilities that will allow 2 people on the net see the results of
> the same roll?  We hope to use chat, but I don't trust him to tell me
> his die rolls, and he doesn't trust me.  We are brothers after all.
> 
> Any ideas?

When you say you hope to use chat, I assume you mean IRC (or 
something similar) to handle combat situations? If so, look for an 
IRC server that will actually allow 'bots to be used. I don't know of 
one offhand, but there must be some out there somewhere, else there 
wouldn't be any 'bots. Then search out a dice rolling 'bot to use. 
The results are put into the chat window as an action from the 'bot.

For the PBeM games I'm in or running, the GM handles it all. For the 
IRC game I'm in, the GM handles it all. For the first IRC game I was 
in, the GM would periodically ask us to roll and trusted us to be 
honest in reporting the roll. Since that GM was my hubby, I'll let 
you guess as to the honesty factor on my end... ;>

Let me know how things work out...

Suz 

Suzette C. Dollar
#Traveller Channel Manager
suzd@goodnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:12:01 -0600
From: "Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: My FF&S2 Spreadsheet...new version available.

Version 2.0 of my FF&S2 spacecraft design spreadsheet is freely available on
my website: www.ames.net/igor/trav.trav.htm. The spreadsheet itself can be
found on the drydock page.

This version is mainly a bug fix...here are the details:

* Fixed hull pricing (there was a bug).
* Fixed coating pricing - its now based on percentages instead of flat cost
(for both credits and costs).
* A whole slew of minor changes to the worksheet that should enable
non-excel users (and Excel 5.0 users) to use the program with fewer error
messages. I have now tested the worksheet on Excel 97 and Quattro Pro 8, and
it works without errors or warnings in both. If you are using it on another
spreadsheet (like 1-2-3, Excel 7, Excel 5, Excel for the Mac, Claris Works,
etc...) let me know how its working...
* Added TL tracking for hull materials, to inform you when you've selected a
material that isn't available at your tech level.

And you can see, nothing huge - except to the non Excel 97 users, perhaps.

Let me know what you think - and keep sending the bug reports and
enhancement requests my way!

Note: Several people have written to me and asked for a more "GUI" based
spreadsheet - dialogs and the like to support data entry rather than the
silly little code numbers on the sheet itself. I'm not doing this for two
reasons:
1) Never done it before, so I don't know how...
2) I'd like this spreadsheet to be a cross-platform/cross-program as
possible - I've already broken that rule with the Tech Level macro - if I
add even more VBA code, I take the chance that the sheet will be unusuable
to non-excel people. So, I'm aiming for the lowest common denominator.

But thanks for your input, anyway!

Andrew Akins
igor@ames.net

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #62
*********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Thursday, January 29 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 063



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Thoughts on jump drive
TRTOOLS v0.96
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Planetary atmospheres and Black curtain
Re: FFS2 Jump Energy ?
RE: Canon thoughts
Colonization/Orbital Facility
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: PBEM Task Resolution
Re: Canon thoughts
Re: has ANYONE been paid?
Re: Canon thoughts
Re: Q: Zhodani Ship Configuration (?)
Re: Mayday scale
Re: Astronomy
Rules Questions
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 07:20:17 -0800
From: "Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing" <electric-stitch@w-link.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on jump drive

- -----Original Message-----
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Thursday, January 29, 1998 4:10 AM
Subject: Re: Thoughts on jump drive


>"Legate" <legate@futureone.com> writes:
>
>>Well my reasoning behind this is a little kown rule from CT-High Guard &
>>MT.  That when the jump capacitors of a ship are filled then that ship my
>>jump.  It does not say that you needed to use the fuel or not.
>
>Yes it does. Well, I won't positively claim that there is no place where
>it dosen't mention the fuel, but the one place I recall seeing the rule
>about a ship being able to jump if its capacitors had been filled by
>absorbing incoming fire, it continues '...provided it has the fuel'. In
>other words, _none_ of the jump fuel is used to provide the power needed
>to jump. This was the basis for the alternate suggestion some months ago
>that jump fuel isn't use as fuel at all, but in some way to open a 'bubble'
>in jumpspace where the ship can enter. (BTW. did FF&S2 use this idea or
>ignore it?). IMO this is the explanation that comes closest to resolving
>the various problems with the CT jump drive.
>
>

I think I read this in the MT:Ref's Manual. About how the Black Globes work.
If the globe absorbed enough power from incoming fire (and the black globe
capacitors were large enough) the power could be transferred to the jump
drive.

So, a way to make a "jump gate" work, would be to have a black globe with
large enough capacitors. Have the jump gate "fire" the energy into the black
globe and "poof" your in jump space. You probably wouldn't need a "full
size" black globe. Just a small one, perhaps at the front of the ship, to
absorb the energy.

Of course, I could be remembering the books wrong.

Question about FFS/FFS2 Do these books go into a lot of detail about how the
different components work? Like sensors and Jump Drives. I've gone through
every resource I have (again, I have nothing after MT) and can't find
anything other than the most basic descriptions.

- -Shawn

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 23:24:12 +0800
From: "Michael Bailey" <mickb@opera.iinet.net.au>
Subject: TRTOOLS v0.96

To all those avid users of TRTOOLS (both of you), take heart!

Version 0.96 of the Traveller's Toolbox is now complete and ready for
download.

New features include:

- - New sector mapping options (by population and mainworld habitability).
- - Add political borders to sector maps.
- - Recalculate trade codes on the fly
- - Map a 'theatre', consisting of up to 40-odd sectors.
  (under construction, but usable)

For those unfamiliar with TRTOOLS, there's also the following:

- - Map sectors by starport, tech level and allegiance (with routes/xboat
routes).
- - Map subsectors (ditto).
- - Generate sector files (standard and 'alternate' methods.
- - Apply Hard Times effects to sector data
- - Apply TNE Collapse effects to sector data
- - 'Regress' second surver sector data to Millieu:0
- - 'Fix' broken stellar data

TRTOOLS runs from the DOS command line (no GUI for this lazy amateur), and
requires DOS 3.x or above, 640K memory and a VGA graphics card.  It has been
run successfully under Win3.x/Win95, and should be fine under any
half-decent DOS emulator.

(Anyone had any problems with other platorms?  Let me know).

It's been written in Turbo Pascal 6.0, and all the source code is included
(for what it's worth - it's kinda messy in spots).

Point yer browser to:

http://www.iinet.net.au/~mickb/Traveller/software.html

As always, I'd like to hear any suggestions, grips or bug reports...


Seeya,

Michael Bailey
mickb@opera.iinet.net.au

"if it's worth doing, it's worth doing to excess..."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:24:10 EST
From: Dedly <Dedly@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

> >>2) If you could store energy in other forms other that fuel would that
not
> make Jump Drive more Efficent?<<
> As far as I know, there are no capacitors available that can hold the
> incredible amount of energy required for a jump for long periods of time.

Jump capacitors in CT & MT, bubba.  Its canon so try to refute me.>>

I said LONG periods of time. I am well aware of the existence of Jump
capacitors in MT but even they don't hold their energy for LONG periods of
time.

>>> You'd be entitled to do this as it is your universe but canon thumpers
>would say that you aren't playing Traveller anymore but rather Babylon 5. =) 
>It would radically alter the game, but it's your universe to alter as you
>see fit.<<

Well, thank you for that.  I really need you to give me permission to run
my universe the way I want to.<<

Obviously, you didn't see my smiley. And to think I was trying to be
supportive with my post.

DED

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:34:53 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Planetary atmospheres and Black curtain

>But the point of all of this is than many planets are going to have
>"earthlike" temps and pressure, and *no* free oxygen. Just that
>nitrogen and carbon dioxide atmosphere. And they may actually be
>*desirable* because of surface or near surface deposits of minerals
>that can only form deep in the ground on planets with an oxygen
>atmosphere.
>
>--
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)

Thanks for a very good and short description about planetary evolution.

The lack of planets with nonbreathable atmosheres in Traveller is a serious
one because it makes most collections of say 20 systems more or less equal
in value before colonization and there are no "gems" so to speak. We could
argue that tainted atmospheres actually include all cases where a person
could breathe with added (bottles) oxygen ie reasonable pressures and
harmless gasses (N2, CO2 etc) but that would be pretty canonbreaking.

My (secret to the players) solution is that most systems with life were
seeded with life from the mysterious progenitors for reasons unknown 3-5
billion years ago. Therefore most life vaguelly share the same biochemistry
and thus the many oxygenated planets around. The progenitors also
terraformed lots of planets cirkling those sinful cold suns we've been
talking about lately.

Finally, the progenitors created a physical system for transporting HUGE
amounts of power from the galactic core to the rim in a couple of hundred
parsecs wide "tunnel". A side effect of this tunnel is that jumpdrives work
and therefore the lack of starfaring civs knocking on the door from other
parts of the galaxy. This explains the lack of understanding all
major/minor races seem to have about the underlying principles of
hyperspace as it is a "local" phenomena and all scientists swear to the
cosmological principle ("there is nothing special about where you are"). In
my universe, taken from some blasphemous ideas on the list (Eris?), all but
droyne are actually minor: the so called major races are just better at
hiding the fact. To complicate things more Grandfather stumbled on the fact
that hyperspace was an artifact and after that he got SOO yeallow he killed
of his children, destroyed all traces of himself in the final war, secretly
gave all major races the secret of jumpdrives with carefully planted
artifacts etc and finally built himself a pocket universe to hide in.
Why did he do all this?
Because he realized that his jumping about with starships actually had
started to interfere with the progenitors who had listening monitors placed
along the "tunnel" these were sublight ships that started towards the
galactic core to tell the builders what had happened. 150 000 years later
the monitors arrived at the core and the entities responsible for
maintaining the "tunnel" went out to kill the disturbance. These also went
by sublight so after another 150 000 years they arrived bringing with them
the black curtain etc. Yaskoydroy, the ultimate chicken even gave the
Zhodani artifacts to lure them into exploring coreward in the hope that
they would take the blame for messing with the progenitors "tunnel".
The "tunnel" maintainers are large robotic sublight craft filled with
antimatter and jump inhibitors that come travelling creating the black
curtain.

Maybe this is a bit over the top but at least it solves some astrophysical
discrepansies. ;-)


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:43:33 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: FFS2 Jump Energy ?

>This has been with us since J2 required PP2 in LBB days <cryptic grin>.
>
>I'm sure FFS2 also had the requirement to keep that level of power whilst
>in jump.
>But I havn't got FFS2 at work so treat that statement as a wild guess.
>
>Phil Kitching

Except that the X-boats didn't need P-plants at all (I think it says so in
Traders & Gunboats). In High Guard there was some rules about the time to
jump depending on J-n vs P-n. I'll look it up when I get home after work.

<What - are you reading TML duing work!!!
Get back on those oars matey or taste the whip!>


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:37:35 -0600
From: "Miller, Chris" <CMiller@uniden.com>
Subject: RE: Canon thoughts

> Merrick, this isn't a shot, it's a serious question.  Where and when
> did
> the *fact* of "peace maintained by squadrons of huge Battleships" take
> hold?  It wasn't apparent in the 3 LLBs, it wasn't in the CT
> adventures,
> and as you say it wasn't in HG.  I haven't gone back and checked JTAS,
> did
> it take hold after the FFW?  Was it during the MT era that the
> multi-hundred thousand ton BBs became orthodox?  As I've written about
> I
> didn't buy many of the MT books, staying with CT for flavor, setting
> and
> feel.  It was a surprise for me to see the sizes of some of the MT and
> even
> TNE era ships.
> 
- ---------> The Canon comes from (CT) Supplement 9 "Fighting Ships" which
has cruisers in the 50,000 to 75,000 ton range and Battleships from
200,000 to 500,000 tons. In addition to maxed-out spinal weapons, they
tended to carry sizeable fighter squadrons, even on some of the
cruisers. Heck, the Light Cruiser was 30,000 tons.
	The MT fighting ships book did up the size on many vessels
Destroyers (3,000 tons in Supp9) ballooned to 10,000 tons, some
dreadnoughts went to 700,000 tons, but with the ship design changes
compared to High Guard, some of them had to happen to make them work.
The rebellion sourcebook also had a large battleship and cruiser class
with notes.
	Personally, I always liked the older book better, as, in
addition to stats there was a brief description of the capabilities and
roles of the different ships, a class name, and some comments about
deployment - you know, things to add some flavor to otherwise bare
stats...
> >HG, on the other hand while frequently refered to as canon, has optimum
> >military designs that are far from Canon (though closer to the BR camp
> >than the BB camp)---HG tends to support the smallest ships you can wrap
> >around a decent meson gun as I recall.
	That's one way to do it. The spinal mounts are usually what
causes the majority of the damage anyway.

> Wasn't AHL about 10,000 tons?  I remember that as being a *huge* ship, it
> was a full-blown cruiser in my time!  Heck, to me, a BB would be 20 to 30
> ktons, not ten times that volume!
> 
	As I believe someone else has posted, AHL's were about 60,000
tons, big spinal PA, and a sizeable fighter complement. To a group of
PC's in a Far Trader, might as well be a battleship. We ran a campaign
for a bit which was in a "Star Trek" mode with PC's as naval officers,
though, and at that point the difference starts to matter. "It's how
big?".

	I will say that the largest Vargr ship I remember seeing stats
for was about 10,000 tons. Kinda puny against a 200KTon BB, but then I
realized you can only fire that spinal mount so often, and there are a
lot of Vargr, and again, to a Far Trader etc, 10,000 tons  might as well
be 100,000.

Chris Miller

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:42:11 -0600 (CST)
From: Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com>
Subject: Colonization/Orbital Facility

> >From: Phil Kitching <PhilK@btinternet.com>
> >for the really cautious, I would suggest designing the ship so that once in
> >orbit it can be converted to an extended large animal ecosystem.
> >That way you can leave some colonists and animals and plants on the ship
> >where they could survive any problems with your chosen colony sites.

This orbiting facility could also act as a communications satellite,
weather satellite, mapping, etc...  Maintaining a space presences could
be useful for a number of reasons.  Just make sure you have some reliable,
reusable surface to orbit vehicles and enough escape capsules to make
it back to the planet if anything goes irreversibly wrong with the
orbiting ship.

Bolie IV


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:41:46 -0600
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

>Legate wrote:

>>Well my reasoning behind this is a little kown rule from CT-High Guard &
>>MT.  That when the jump capacitors of a ship are filled then that ship my
>>jump.  It does not say that you needed to use the fuel or not.  When in
>>doubt don't modify.
>[snip]
>
>I don't know about MT, but there is no such rule in CT-High Guard.  I don't
>recall it ever being spelled out but the understanding I had then was much
>the same as in T4.

Actually, what he is talking about is listed in CT-High Guard (revised,
1980) on pg.39, under "Breaking Off:"

"Jumping: A ship which breaks off by jumping must have a destination and
enough fuel to get there. It must expend energy points equal to two turns
output from a power plant ... ."

Later, under "The Black Globe" (pg. 43) it states:

"If a ship absorbs enough energy to make a jump, and is supplied with
sufficient fuel, it may jump at the end of the turn."

He is incorrect, but I admit that until I went back and read it I shared
his misconception.

Of course, this brings up that whole "what is the jump fuel for, anyway?"
question again. If you have the fuel but not the energy to initiate the
jump, then you can't jump. It seems to cotradict the high-throughput
reactor theory, for instance. I don't like the "it's used to maintain the
jump bubble" idea, either. On GURPSnet, one proposal was that the hydrogen
was used as some sort of FTL reaction mass, and that similar technology
could be used to explain "reactionless" thrusters (the reaction mass is
ported into jumpspace).

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:11:20 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com> wrote:
>I have been thinking about Jump Drive lately.
[points deleted to save space]

When Dave and I were updating FF&S, we had pretty much the same sorts of
thoughts (particularly your first few, on fuel and energy for the jump
drive).

Since "canonical" Traveller didn't have stargates (except possibly as Ancient
artifacts) or similar forms of interstellar travel, we concluded that on the
whole, Traveller jump drives require both fuel and energy to operate, and
the drive must be on board the ship which performs the jump.  Then we added
rules and other comments to FF&S2 to this general effect.

>So far this is what I have.  One of the reasons I posted this is because I
>want feedback on this system.  The other is I am planing to run a Babylon 5
>based campaign using the MT rules.

If you want a Babylon-5 campaign, then your conclusions are entirely
appropriate - the Babylon-5 universe seems to work that way.  If you can
locate a copy, stargate rules were presented in the first edition of FF&S
as an alternate technology.



wildstar@qrc.com
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It's Science Fiction, if, presuming technical competence on the part of
 the writer, he genuinely believes it could happen." --- John W. Campbell

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:13:33 -0600 (CST)
From: Joseph Heck <ccjoe@showme.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: PBEM Task Resolution

Stevie D said:
> I'm trying to start a PBEM campaign with my brother and a friend (the
> most I can handle).  But what to do to simlulate die rolling?  Are there
> any untilities that will allow 2 people on the net see the results of
> the same roll?  We hope to use chat, but I don't trust him to tell me
> his die rolls, and he doesn't trust me.  We are brothers after all.

There's a number of things now - although in all honesty most PBEM's I've
played don't have much need for dice-rolling - most of the work is done
through role playing directly with the Ref's doing any nessecary die
rolling.

http://www.webprg.com/ is one possibility, as well as a number of BOTs
for IRC's that simulate rolling dice, and the MU* variations there.

- -- 
 joe                          (573) 884-6766
 ccjoe@showme.missouri.edu    http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/
 PGP Fingerprint: E3 3F DF 08 BE 3E 44 A0  EE A9 80 7E 22 99 CD DF

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:46:07 -0600
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: Re: Canon thoughts

>SDBs (an idea first mentioned sometime around JTAS 7 in the original "SDB"
>article). So ton for ton, an SDB/BR has always been better, either because
>it costs less or has more teeth.

IIRC, the same was true of monitors (essentially BRs, without the tenders)
in the Imperium boardgame.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:36:10 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: has ANYONE been paid?

Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com asked:
>     I keep seeing more and more posts from different people.
>     Is there anyone on this list who was _actually paid_ for work in JTAS?

I've been keeping my mouth shut, but I guess now's the time to speak up.
I haven't been paid for FF&S2, and neither has my coauthor.

The last communication I recieved from Tim said that he'd pay me as soon
as he 'could' (and I won't speculate in public on the conclusions I can draw
from that and the fact that I haven't been paid yet).



wildstar@qrc.com
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It's Science Fiction, if, presuming technical competence on the part of
 the writer, he genuinely believes it could happen." --- John W. Campbell

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:48:34 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Canon thoughts

 
> Merrick, this isn't a shot, it's a serious question.  Where and when did
> the *fact* of "peace maintained by squadrons of huge Battleships" take
> hold?  It wasn't apparent in the 3 LLBs, it wasn't in the CT adventures,
> and as you say it wasn't in HG.  I haven't gone back and checked JTAS, did
> it take hold after the FFW?  Was it during the MT era that the
> multi-hundred thousand ton BBs became orthodox?  As I've written about I
> didn't buy many of the MT books, staying with CT for flavor, setting and
> feel.  It was a surprise for me to see the sizes of some of the MT and even
> TNE era ships.
 
Sup. 9 Fighting Ships, and Library Data both talk about it (Library
data has a picture of a very Star Destroyer-like Sylea BB, for
example. Sup. 9 has a the Tigress, Plankwell, and at least one othe
r BB I think.

> Wasn't AHL about 10,000 tons?  I remember that as being a *huge* ship, it
> was a full-blown cruiser in my time!  Heck, to me, a BB would be 20 to 30
> ktons, not ten times that volume!

AHL was about 60ktons and was (er, is) a Cruiser.

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:40:42 -0500 (EST)
From: Scott Taylor <izzylobo@faerealm.faerealm.com>
Subject: Re: Q: Zhodani Ship Configuration (?)

Leonard Erickson wrote; 
> In mail you write:
<snip> 
> >>   I guess the combo would have to be considered unstreamlined, no?
> >> This also gets rid of a need for escape pods since the primary hull
> >> is supposed to be one giant escape pod.
> 
> > Not for NCC 1701 ("no bloody A, B, or C" to quote Scott).  However,
> > for the later models, maybe.
> 
> No, while it was never done on the original show, it *was* mentioned in
> several reference works that are considered rather authoritative. I
> think one of them may have been the writer's guide, but I can't be
> certain as I never had one.

The writers guide, (IIRC), and "Making of Star Trek". In addition, both 
sets of blueprints (the "official" set produced by Pocket books, and the 
fan produced ones) denote that the hull was seperable, showing explosive 
charges, reinforced mounting points, etc.)
 
> > The first one was never intended to land.  It could, but in Traveller, any
> > ship can land if it has sufficient bracing.  It may be a rough ride, but,
> > you can get them down.
> 
> That's right. It wasn't intended to land, but it was (supposedly)
> intended to be able to limp along on impulse and maybe reach somewhere
> safer. 

Actually, while "flee at impulse velocities" was an option, the hull was 
also designed to at least be able to survive a re-entry and land safely 
(this was not so much flying as "controlled falling"; the ship used it's 
frisbee design and tractor beams to slow itself, and force-fields to 
protect the hull and crew from re-entry heat).

The Galaxy class Primary hull was also designed for re-entry, but this 
was considered a last-ditch option; the hull was large enough and 
expensive enough that they never wasted an airframe testing it (according 
to the tech manual), and no one was sure if it would actually work, even 
under ideal conditions. (of course, in Generations we see them land a 
primary hull under the worst possible conditions, suggesting this was 
about the only place Starfleet Engineering actually followed rules 
regarding over-engineering their designs; they certainly didn't with the 
design's power harness or M/AM reactor assembly!)

The early version of the Enterprise (no bloody a, b, c, or d...) did not 
have escape pods on board, according to the deckplans, but according to 
one fan produced set of deck plans, the Ent-A *did*. Ent-C, D, and E all 
have hatches on the hull for ejection bays, suggesting that they all have 
escape pods (and, of course, we've seen them deployed on the Ent-E, in 
First Contact).

Scott "Trek is fun, even if the tech is crap" Taylor
Freelancer for Hire
Have Mac, Will Travel

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:58:34 -0800
From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <schoon@aimnet.com>
Subject: Re: Mayday scale

anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman) wrote:

>Sorry but the way to calculate hexes from gameturn lengths (if you want 1G
>equalling 1 hex of vector change that is) is hex = a*t^2 not the physics
>textbook s = 0.5*a*t^2.
>Why is that? Do some gameturns of contiuous acceleration and check
>distances travelled:

[snipped his chart]

I had hoped that this one had been laid to rest from the last time, however...

The formula for change of position from accelleration is always: delta x =
(.5)at^2

The trick is that each new turn must be considered on its own. The velocity
from the last turn's accelleration cannot be considered when determining
the new accelleration for the new time period.
To illustrate this point, just accellerated in different directions, say
the four points of a compass over four turns.

I'd rather not get into inertial frames unless I have to, so I'll leave it
at that.

Schoon

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:58:30 -0800
From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <schoon@aimnet.com>
Subject: Re: Astronomy

Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net> wrote:

>I think that we need to have an accurate star generation system in
>Traveller for two basic reasons.

>1) Willing suspension of disbelief in the current, inaccurate, system
>severely strains my mind.

>2) One of the things I like best about Traveller (besides playing
>slightly eccentric charecters) is creating worlds.  I prefer to do this
>using MT's World Builders Handbook.  Almost all the times I create
>planets, even ones that are purportedly in the "habitable" zone I end up
>with them having an average temperature of -113† C or 71† C.  I usually
>end up having to 1) change the planets orbit 2) really mess with its
>greenhouse effect or 3) explain how the temperature has affected the
>society.

I agree entirely. The DGP World Builder's Handbook showed just how flawed
the basic system was.

Schoon

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:53:49 -0600
From: "Miller, Chris" <CMiller@uniden.com>
Subject: Rules Questions

	OK, I've played Traveller since 1981 and normally try to keep up
with the various products, and I've lived through and played each new
version, but I'm stumped on a few things in recent products and I'm
turning to the list:

1) Where are the rules for RF and VRF bonuses? These are mentioned in
several places - the Arsenal book and FF&S2, but I cannot find anything
which spells out exactly what they do for T4.

2) FF&S2 figures a Recoil number for small arms. Why? We had this in
TNE, but it wasn't in T4's main rules, or anywhere else I've looked, and
again, no recoil numbers in Arsenal. So, I assume it's some kind of die
modifier, but could someone point me to a source or just post it?

3) Next time someone prints a book of Vehicles, could we have the Tech
Level printed in with the rest of the stats, please? For those of us not
in Milleu 0 (well, even if you are, really) it's kind of handy to know
the TL. 
(Ok, not so much a rules question, but I think it's a bit important)

4) Has the official revised hardback special gold-plated edition
actually come out yet? The IG website is out of date on several things,
and I haven't seen it locally (Dallas/Fort Worth). Every rulebook I've
found has been the same as mine (even the hardbacks) and I was under the
impression that the task system was going to change somewhat with the
revision. Somebody update me!

Thanks in advance people.

Chris Miller

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:13:40 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

> >I have been thinking about Jump Drive lately.  So here are a few of my
> >thoughts on the subject.
> >1) Jump Drive consume large amounts of Fuel for the energy to perfom a
> >Jump.
> Not just for teh jump.  FFS2 says that the hydrogen is used to make a jump
> "bubble" around the ship to keep jumpspace out.  Its not good for your health.

So is this a form of energy shield?

> >2) If you could store energy in other forms other that fuel would that not
> >make Jump Drive more Efficent?
> >3) Why carry large ammounts of fuel if all you do is burn it to make a
> >jump.  Why not use Solar Cells to collect the energy from the nearest star,
> >or use another energy storage medium to hold the energy needed.
> You need to make and maintain a  "jump bubble."  See above. : )

Yes, so how do you create the "jump bubble"?  Do you use energy or matter?
 
> >4) If you use Solar Cells or a another storage medium for the energy, why
> >not place them in a sperate object rather than a ship.  Say a Jump Gate.
> TNEs FFS had stargates and other more appropriate things, if u can find it.
> If u can't i might be able to scrounge one up and send it to u.

Please do.
 
> >So far this is what I have.  One of the reasons I posted this is because I
> >want feedback on this system.  The other is I am planing to run a Babylon 5
> >based campaign using the MT rules.
> MT?  Hmm...  I'd suggest the Babylon Project but that might not be an option
> (the Earth Force Sourcebook is very good...  damn... i have no intentions of
> using it but its very good to have for a B5 fan).  The ship combat is a bit
> too simple for my tastes but it is vector based (for reaction drives).  Grav
> drives used by the Minbari up can transfer their momentum into course
> changes... kinda like aerodynamics.

Ug, I own The Babylon Project, but have not have the time to learn the
rules, yet.  That plus the fact that my MT game has been set in the B5
Universe for about 4 years now.  So why change to another game.  That plus,
I use the standard canon alien races, the races from B5, & a few of my own.
 Its a mish-mosh of stuff from MT, B5, & me.  Really a fun game to play in.

>     But if u want to stick to MT...  i'd recomment TNE's Fire Fusion and Steel
> (and TNE! ; ) ).  The Alternate tech has keyhole drives (for jump points) and
> subspace (for B5 Hyperspace).  B5s hyperspace is a fluid medium (and is pretty
> weird... like Star Control 2's hyperspace.  I like it) not the static
> traveller "jumpspace." 

UG, no.  I thought that, at least for me, TNE was garbage, but FF&S was good.

>     If u want to make these ships and have Microsloth Excel, u might want to
> try a rather excellent spreadsheet that can include all of these exotic ftl
> drives (including stutterwarp) and even w/ spin capsule hulls, (the EA Omega
> Destroyers), spun hulls (B5 itself) and many other goodies.  

Well, I have worked up my own rules for the B5 stuff.  And, I prefer to do
it by hand, lets me fudge a bit when I have to.
 
> Gary

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #63
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Traveller-digest     Thursday, January 29 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 064



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: Astronomy
Re: Freelance Traveller - Feedback requested
Full Infini-V now available
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #63
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator
Re: Astronomy (was Re: sin in traveller?)
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
THUDDD 8 comments (was: Thudd 9)
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
PBEM Task Resolution
Re: dates in UWPs?
Ice and UWP's
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:21:05 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

<< Well, the point of not being able to store the energy for jump, or not
being able to supply the energy from outside, is to make jump gates
impossible.  If you want to have jump gates, then dropping those
restrictions is exactly what you want to do.  To be like Babylon 5 you
would also have to drop the fixed week long period you spend in jump space
and the restriction on ships in jump space detecting and communicating with
 each other.... >>

Damn, you got my next post.  Jump Space Radio. ;<)

Mostly, for the Jump Gates, I use a bit of exotic tech that is theorticly
possible, but deadly to life for jump gates.

As to the fixed week long period, that was dropped the minute I thought
about this fact.  "A jump-1 ship can go one parsec in one week.  A jump-2
ship can travel the same parsec in one week as well.  BS, jump-2 should be
faster than jump-1.  So jump-2 ships move twice as fast as a jump-1 ship. 
so inorder to move one parsec is should only take 3.5 days."

Legat
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:22:01 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

> >According to current (T4 and IIRC CT) technobabble, you don't burn any
of
> >the fuel, it is used to create and maintain the "real-space" "jump
bubble".
> 
> I can't speak for T4, but this is not the CT explanation.  In fact,
> the jump space sickness stuff in implies the "jump bubble" is
> an electromagnetic field.

Therefore, it can be created using only energy.  Such that might come from
a storage media.

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:24:59 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

> > Must have.  Well, even so, why waste a good ship.  If you have the plans
> > for a jump drive, why not retrofit it with Jump Drive after you have
> > arrived?
> Because if you are sending an STL ship on a journey that takes a
> millenium, you don't *have* the jump drive!

You would think that in that period of time they could develop jump drive,
but that is just me.

> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:27:12 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

> > Why even waste a good ship like that.  Why not use it as a trading vessel. 
> > IOW, why not rip out the cold sleep berthes & use the area as a cargo bay
> > to bring much needed items to the new colony?  Now I can see if it was
> > built for a one way trip, but most ships aren't.
> With STL travel *all* trips are "one way". Even if it takes only a few
> years ship time, it's going to take *decades* each way. The folks who
> sent you off will likely be *dead* before you return.

Well, have you ever read the "Monk" stories?  They had an interstellar
empire without FTL, until man came along with FTL & took over.

> And given the fuel required, the colony won't be *able* to send the
> ship back. 

Five Words:  Frontier Refueling & a refinery <sp>.

> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:30:16 -0700
From: Chris Griffen <cgriffen@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Astronomy

Peter Newman wrote:

>I hope that you are being too pesamistic here but I suspect that you are
>right Harold.
>
>Please publish it, or make it available, yourself if nothing else.

If you have the ability to do so, Harold, why not publish it on your
Children of Earth web page? I'd be happy to help with formatting. I think
there's a large group of us who *do* have an appreciation for astronomy and
would like to have an alternative system with which to more accurately
depict stellar phenomena in Traveller.

Best,

Chris Griffen

===================================================
Keeper of the Flame. Traveller player since 1980.

http://www.best.com/~cgriffen/traveller/deneb.shtml


- --------------------------------------------------------------
Christopher Griffen                      Phone: (408) 527-7189
Cisco Systems, Inc.                      Fax:   (408) 527-0452
NMBU Technical Publications

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:46:37 EST
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Freelance Traveller - Feedback requested

In a message dated 1/28/98 15:44:51 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com writes:

<< Would the Freelance Traveller
 readership have a problem with this?  I am willing to remain with
 DragonFire if the sentiment against advertising is strong; I
 would prefer to switch for the technical benefits if the general
 sentiment finds these clickthrough ads acceptable. >>

Speaking for myself, I will be willing to accept this in order to recieve the
info and other materials you provide.  After all, if I can put up with IG's
business practices, I can put up w/ anything!  :-)

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:17:05 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Full Infini-V now available

The production version of Infini-V is now available from CORE.  


You can download a demo version at:

http://www.interlog.com/~dmci104/GamingClub/Traveller/software.html


To purchase a copy, contact either Dom Mooney or myself at the addresses
given in the Register dialog.  Andrew has agreed to carry Infini-V in his
Internet store, although that won't be available for a month or so. I'm
certain he'll make an announcement when he opens :-)

I have been informed that Infini-V runs on a PC using a Mac emulator, but
haven't verified this for myself.  I am hoping to translate it to Windows
during the spring, assuming that my access to hardware doesn't change. 
Registered users will be entitled to both versions.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 13:21:04 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #63

Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> wrote:
>This was the basis for the alternate suggestion some months ago that jump fuel 
>isn't use as fuel at all, but in some way to open a 'bubble' in jumpspace 
>where the ship can enter. (BTW. did FF&S2 use this idea or ignore it?).

The basics of this idea are included in FF&S2.  We were trying to get as close
to the Classic Traveller jump drive model as possible (this meant that, by
necessity, FF&S2 differs from T:TNE and MT, since the operation of the Jump
Drive was changed for both rules sets).

>IMO this is the explanation that comes closest to resolving
>the various problems with the CT jump drive.

Agreed.



wildstar@qrc.com
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It's Science Fiction, if, presuming technical competence on the part of
 the writer, he genuinely believes it could happen." --- John W. Campbell

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:49:13 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

At 11:04 PM 1/28/98 -0700, Legate wrote:
>>>>3) Why carry large ammounts of fuel if all you do is burn it to make a
>>>>jump.  Why not use Solar Cells to collect the energy from the nearest
>>>>star, or use another energy storage medium to hold the energy needed.
>>>As far as I understand "all" of the fuel is not burned to start a jump. 
>>>A large quantitiy is used to open the jump field, but that field needs
>>>to be maintained through the entire jump. 
>>According to current (T4 and IIRC CT) technobabble, you don't burn any of
>>the fuel, it is used to create and maintain the "real-space" "jump
>>bubble".
>
>So when you jump you spray the fuel outside into space around your ship? 
>LOL, what a bloody joke.  Next thing they will tell is that when you use
>the jump drive the crew & passengers drink the fuel to maintain a "real
>space" "jump bubble".  If this is the standard for T4, thank god I quit
>buying after MT was ended.  TNE looked like unrealistic garbage.  T4,
>sounds like Star Trek.

As one of the people who kind of likes the idea, I will respond in kind.

Jeez, you mean they spray oil between the moving parts to keep them from
failing?  And the oil is used up?  This is a bloody joke....

Getting serious again, it is a reasonable hypothesis.  If you have ever
bothered to work out how much energy you would get from fusing that much
H2, you would see that it is a tremendous amount - enough that jump drive
power plants would replace all others if they had even a small fraction of
the efficiency of a regular power plant.

Perhaps even more telling, a jump is possible with unrefined fuel.  Damn
few power plants can accept a significant fraction of other chemicals in
the feedstocks, especially they horrific mix in most gas giants.

As a result, they are certainly not using the H2 for fuel, and I cannot see
many other uses for the massive quantities than cooling, ballast, or
reaction mass.  Given that you have alternative physics going on anyway,
you can answer it as you like, but it seems more useful to make it either
JS reaction mass or something that is used to form the fabric of your
pocket universe, than to assume it is just tossed away for no particular
reason.

In addition, if you work out the geometry of a universe the size of a ship,
it is either going to be expanding at tremendous speed, or contracting.
Since I suspect Traveller ships do not approach the energy density needed
to keep such a universe open, tossing some mass into the mix might make it
a lot easier to keep the pocket universe form collapsing to a point.

Scott

Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:22:27 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator

At 04:50 PM 1/28/98 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>> If you happen to know Java, or want to learn it, you might consider
>> recoding in that language.  Most code, I do not push language.  Anything
>> graphical, I tend to encourage Java, as there are versions of it for most
>> all of the platforms I use.
>
>Is there a version for MSDOS (*not* Windoze!)? And if so, is it cheap? 
>I own TP (and can't afford to upgrade from TP 6 to TP 7), an olderf
>version of Turbo C, Turbo Basic, and I've got PowerSoft's FirstBasic,
>which I'll register as soon as I can spare the $25.

If there is one at all, it is likely free, if it exists at all.  I have
been reading the kaffe pages, and there appears to be a number of people
working on this problem.

There is also the Sun JavaPlatform dealy that is ~$100, and includes a web
browser, VM, and tools, but I think that is overkill.

I will drop a line to a few of them, and see if there is, indeed, a Java
solution for pure-dos machines.  Note that if you wish to go to C, DJGPP is
freeware.  I would rather do Java than C or C++ at the moment, but there
are free options in general.

(Java's advantage of a defined, if arcane, graphics API for all platforms
is kind of nice, really.)

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:23:32 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Astronomy (was Re: sin in traveller?)

At 12:41 AM 1/29/98 -0900, you wrote:
>"Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net> wrote
>> HAL writes:
>> >  This way, I can now attempt to justify why there are some millions of
>> >people on an M9 class star that is supposed to be one of the founding
>> >planets of the Sylean federation/Third Imperium.  I can't justify an
>> >oxygen bearing earth like atmosphere on a world where there never was a
>> >chance for life bearing oxygen creating plants. 
>
>>    OK, let me bottom line it for you.  All weak and not so weak attempts
>> at handwaving aside (sorry Mr. Backman), the system used to generate
>> star systems is ***broken***. 
....
>>    There is a new star system generation system created for "T4" waiting
>> in the wings, ready for publication.  Because it deals with Astronomy
>> however, and is therefore less important than whether there were three
>> or four megacorps at the time that Imperial scouts first entered the
>> Spinward Marches, you'll probably never see it.
....
>Please publish it, or make it available, yourself if nothing else.
>
>I think that we need to have an accurate star generation system in
>Traveller for two basic reasons.
>
>1) Willing suspension of disbelief in the current, inaccurate, system
>severely strains my mind.

It strained mine so much that I started writing new system generation rules
that completely ignore the old ones.  I have not yet done stellar classes,
but I will.  Having an astronomer in the game who objected to the number of
"habitiable" red dwarfs, or type O stars made life exciting.

>2) One of the things I like best about Traveller (besides playing
>slightly eccentric charecters) is creating worlds.  I prefer to do this
>using MT's World Builders Handbook.  Almost all the times I create
>planets, even ones that are purportedly in the "habitable" zone I end up
>with them having an average temperature of -113º C or 71º C.  I usually
>end up having to 1) change the planets orbit 2) really mess with its
>greenhouse effect or 3) explain how the temperature has affected the
>society.

Yes yes yes!

Too damn many iceworlds and lava balls exist for me to play in the
Traveller universe as is.  I have not yet completely decided how to deal
with it, but I have already come out with probability distributions for
main worlds, and am working on subsidiary ones that follow a more
"reasonable" course.  I would not mind seeing other's work, though, as I
was a physicist, not an astronomer.
....
>I feel very strongly about this subject, I am tired of constantly
>handwaving away iceworlds.

Me too!

Scott

Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:07:33 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

At 05:31 PM 1/28/98 EST, Card Sharks wrote:
>In a message dated 98-01-28 10:32:44 EST, you write:
>> You are trying to compromise. You mean, I don't like it. Don't include
>>>it.
> I don't think Andrew is trying to compromise the system at all (although I

>I didn't say trying to compromise the system. I said trying to compromise.
>Either the rules improvement works or it doesn't. When someone says "make it
>an option." he or she means... "I don't like it; leave it out." Saying
that it
>could be an option is damning it with faint praise.
>
>Either it works or it doesn't. Either it fits or it doesn't. Saying keep
it as
>an option is looking for excuses to not use it.

There is a second possibility.  I have been playing with economic curves
for the last few weeks, and talking to a number of people who disagree
adamantly with some of my assumptions (Hi, Jo...).  It has been a good
discussion, and it has altered my thinking.

Unfortunately, it means my current best economic formula is a bear.  It has
six parameters, a power, some additions, and produces numbers I now do not
like.  I suspect it will get even more hairy, and this despite my desire to
keep it to the same kind of log scales that are in the rest of the
Traveller universe.

Would I inflict the current version on anything but a computer program?
No, as it is not playable in real time.  For real time play, I have a chart
giving the per capita GDP per tech level, with shifts for rich, poor, and
extreme starport types.  It is not quite right, but it is close enough for
quick use.

Now, do both of these belong in mailine text in a rule book?  Not really -
the table takes up 15 lines, three columns, and is likely good enough, with
the full formula being good "optional rule" fodder.

As far as the nD-D deal, I would likely not use it, as I rarely use dice
anyway, so i do not have strong opinions.  I had enough trouble noting
which die was the tens digit when rolling percentile dice :)

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:46:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: THUDDD 8 comments (was: Thudd 9)

> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:09:21
> From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
> 
> Looking at the Thuddd 9 entries, I am just blown away.

Unless you've built a time machine, I think you mean THUDDD 8. :)

> The Caravel epecially is making me re-assess what freight rates should be
> in the Third Imperium - 56 megacredits for a Jump-2 freighter carrying 200
> tons of cargo *and* 20 passengers just blows me away. This is *cheaper*
> than some 200 dton Far Trader designs, and carries their total displacement
> in freight.

The problem is that I suspect that the Caravel and a couple of the other
designs don't add up correctly (in price and other variables).  Given the
amount of time I spend on other aspects of the THUDDD contests already, I
simply don't have time to go over each design for its technical validity;
I've been counting on list discussions to bring this out during the voting
period.

However, that hasn't been happening to the extent I'd expected.  Would
anyone care to form the "ISBA Technical Review Board" to go over the
designs soon after I announce them, and announce any problems found to the
lists?  Perhaps authors could submit their designs to the Board for
confidential vetting before the entry deadline, as well.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:51:20 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

Legate wrote:
> 
> > > Must have.  Well, even so, why waste a good ship.  If you have the
> plans
> > > for a jump drive, why not retrofit it with Jump Drive after you have
> > > arrived?
> > Because if you are sending an STL ship on a journey that takes a
> > millenium, you don't *have* the jump drive!
> 
> You would think that in that period of time they could develop jump drive,
> but that is just me.

It is.

In the Traveller universe, it is very, very, very, difficult to make the
technological breakthrough required for the jump drive. Only 5 (!)
races  in all of known space in the past _several thousand years_ have
independantly discovered jump drives!

And questions remain whether *all* of these races merely, in one form or
another, recovered the technology from ancient artifacts developed by
*one* super-genius droyne known as "grandfather" over 300,000 years ago!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:52:09 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Legate wrote:
> As to the fixed week long period, that was dropped the minute I thought
> about this fact.  "A jump-1 ship can go one parsec in one week.  A jump-2
> ship can travel the same parsec in one week as well.  BS, jump-2 should be
> faster than jump-1.  So jump-2 ships move twice as fast as a jump-1 ship.
> so inorder to move one parsec is should only take 3.5 days."

You are jumping to conclusions here. A jump-2 is not *faster* than a
jump-1. It just reaches a higher-energy jumpspace dimension. A jump-1
drive is incapable of reaching the J-2 dimension which "shortens"
distance *more* than the J-1 dimension.

There have been many different "handwaves" to explain why the jump time
is fixed at one week. The fact is though, that that's the way Marc wants
it, and that's a base assumption upon which much Traveller history and
background is based.

If you're running a B5 campaign, by all means, do what you want; just
don't discard the notion that jump times _can_ be fixed as some sort of
crazy or illogical idea.


Here are a couple brief synopses of pseudo-scientific
explanations/analogies for the 1 week jump time, the first of which I
came up with, and the second was another idea someone posted last year
that I liked:

1. Fixed Jumpspace Grid Reaction Time

(analogy: fixed time chemical reactions)

- - In order to enter and remain in jumpspace, a ship needs to generate a
jumpspace field, composed of exotic particles.
- - As long as the field is active the ship remains in jumpspace; it
*cannot* exit until the field is turned off.
- - The field is generated by the jump grid, laced throught the hull of
the starship.
- - The reaction created in the grid cannot be stopped once started, and
it runs its course naturally in 168 hrs +/- 10%.
- - The reaction cannot be restarted once begun, and has been maximally
catalyzed to react as fast as possible using current technology.

2. Equivalence of Potential Energy

(analogy: fixed time parabolic travel at constant acceleration)

- - No matter how "fast" one travels through jumpspace, there is a maxima
of potential energy available for travel.
- - To use an analogy, imagine that a *frictionless*, parabolic tunnel is
built from point A to B on earth, to a depth of 1 km. Another similar
tunnel is built from A to C at the same depth. If you drop a ball down
each of the tunnels, both will arrive at their respective destinations
at exactly the same time, no matter the distance travelled.


Glenn Hoppe


PS. I, like others, am offended by your tone and your arrogance. I ask
that you take the time to consider your words before hitting the "send"
button. Let's try and keep the courtesy and respect that is (usually)
present here on the TML.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:55:04 -0600 (CST)
From: Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

On Thu, 29 Jan 1998, Legate wrote:
> As to the fixed week long period, that was dropped the minute I thought
> about this fact.  "A jump-1 ship can go one parsec in one week.  A jump-2
> ship can travel the same parsec in one week as well.  BS, jump-2 should be
> faster than jump-1.  So jump-2 ships move twice as fast as a jump-1 ship. 
> so inorder to move one parsec is should only take 3.5 days."

Be careful applying logic to fictional constructs.  Hyperspace by
definition does not conform to our understanding of space so movement
through hyperspace isn't necessarily going to work like we'd expect.
You can have ships move at different speeds if you want, but it's no
more or less logical than having all jumps take one week.

> "It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
> severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

"I know his name..."

Bolie IV


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:59:32 -0600 (CST)
From: Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com>
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

On Thu, 29 Jan 1998, Legate wrote:
> > And given the fuel required, the colony won't be *able* to send the
> > ship back. 
> 
> Five Words:  Frontier Refueling & a refinery <sp>.

Given the expense of sending an STL colony ship I'd guess that the whole
ship would be used for something.  I also doubt that the colony would
have much to send back that would need a ship.  What I would expect is
that some part of the ship would be able to be converted into a huge
antenna to send messages back and forth.  If nothing else, the colony
would most likely generate scientific data that would be of interest to
the homeworld.   They may also wish to send STL data carriers back,
but these would be as small as possible.

Bolie IV


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 98 05:13 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: PBEM Task Resolution

Moin Stevie D,

> I'm trying to start a PBEM campaign with my brother and a friend (the
> most I can handle).  But what to do to simlulate die rolling?  Are there
> any untilities that will allow 2 people on the net see the results of
> the same roll?  We hope to use chat, but I don't trust him to tell me
> his die rolls, and he doesn't trust me.  We are brothers after all.

	If you realy want random, take a linux box with a sound card
	and produce randoms from the noise. source is in pgp-262. The
	next best method is using a crypto pseudo rand like ISAAC.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:19:31 +0000
From: John Wood <John@elvw.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: dates in UWPs?

Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote,
> Maybe a notation for a "comment line"? Say that any line that starts
> witha C is a comment and applies to the hex immediately above it. Any
> C lines at the very start of the file apply to the whole file. 
>
> This is easy to implement, and it's easy to strip out the comment
> lines if you are using software that doesn't recognize them.

Since files usually start with the world name you can't use a letter or
number for the comment character.  Software already exists that uses '#'
as a comment line marker, however, so this would be a good choice.

A more universally useful choice would be to ignore all lines starting
with characters outside a certain set.  I have some software from
sunbane (I think) that treats lines beginning with '#', '$' or '@'
specially.  How about a general rule to ignore lines which begin with
any punctuation character except for a few that might be useful as part
of the name field - perhaps single or double quote, brackets,
parentheses, '!','*' and '-'?

I have an algorithm for recognising the most common variant file formats
(dgp, tab delimited, etc) based on certain assumptions and patterns to
be found in the text (e.g. 4 digits surrounded by whitespace for the
location, XXXXXXX-X with X alphanumeric for the UWP).  I posted this
some time ago; I'll try to write a portable C routine to parse sector
files.  And no, I don't want to learn Java just for this! 8-)
 
John G. Wood  |  john@elvw.demon.co.uk  |  Oxford, United Kingdom

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:30:32 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Ice and UWP's

If you have an ice covered world, does it's hydrosphere
get a 0 or an A in the UWP?
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:27:33 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:41:46 -0600, yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R.
Dietrich)
> Later, under "The Black Globe" (pg. 43) it states:

> "If a ship absorbs enough energy to make a jump, and is supplied with
> sufficient fuel, it may jump at the end of the turn."

> Of course, this brings up that whole "what is the jump fuel for, anyway?"
> question again. If you have the fuel but not the energy to initiate the
> jump, then you can't jump. It seems to cotradict the high-throughput
> reactor theory, for instance.

One of the big problem on this list is the habit of taking a single
sentence and trying to read to much into it.  The author could
well have intended this to mean that you could use energy from
both the black globe and jump fuel (and before anyone gets pendantic
on me, you have to prove that the sentence is worded exactly to
say what the author intended).  Balance this against other
references where you use just energy (including the adventure
where jump drives were charged by solar energy, but that idea
was ill considered for background consistency reasons).

> I don't like the "it's used to maintain the
> jump bubble" idea, either.

Well, the problem is that you are trying have a drive and retroactively
come up with reasons why it just happens to use fusion fuel without
needing it for fusion.  That kind of thing always tends to (IMO at
least) leave hokey or arbitrary taste in the mouth.
 _____________________________
 summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #64
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Traveller-digest     Thursday, January 29 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 065



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Initial colonization considerations
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Canon thoughts
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: FFS2 Jump Energy ?
Re: Thoughts on jump drive
Re: Gravity Shields
Re: PBEM Task Resolution
Re: Gravity Shields
Re: Canon thoughts
Re: Decompression/T4.1 Hit System
Another Thoughts on Jump
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Battleriders v. Battleships I

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:59:15 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Initial colonization considerations

> <<Bruce Johnson wrote:
> Uhhh...the woman who couldn't be convinced that having a large family is
> good won't be selected to go. The preferred age spread and birth frequency
> are _very_ temporal things in any culture, and a colony is going to be
> composed of people who want large families.
> >>
> Especially if the colony is being founded by a Hi pop world that wants to
> eat into its population growth problem. (Yes I know you can't ship 'em
> offplanet fast enough. But it's psychologically important, and it does
> eventually make a bit of difference).
> Andy

Just a few thoughts here about High Population worlders going to a colony
world.  What would be the psychological impact to them?  What I mean is
that the people on the home world would think "Thank god, something is
being done about the problem."  But, with people raised in a dense
population situation would this not cause some problems with them working
together, i.e. not trust, thinking the other person is going to stab them
in the back.  By High Population, I mean in the tens of billions, not what
we have now.

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:35:11 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

> >I have been thinking about Jump Drive lately.
> [points deleted to save space]
> When Dave and I were updating FF&S, we had pretty much the same sorts of
> thoughts (particularly your first few, on fuel and energy for the jump
> drive).

Thank you, I'm not totaly insane, just crazy. ;<)

OK, so it seems we have someone in the know here.  So why does Jump Drive
need both fuel & energy?

> Since "canonical" Traveller didn't have stargates (except possibly as Ancient
> artifacts) or similar forms of interstellar travel, we concluded that on the
> whole, Traveller jump drives require both fuel and energy to operate, and
> the drive must be on board the ship which performs the jump.  Then we added
> rules and other comments to FF&S2 to this general effect.

OK, but why do they need both?  As to stargates/jumpgates, well my thought
is that they were not ever thought of by someone with the power to do
anything about it.  That or the Jump-Drive builders don't want you to have
them.  (Look at Tucker, built a great car, but was forced out of bussinees
by the big three)

> >So far this is what I have.  One of the reasons I posted this is because I
> >want feedback on this system.  The other is I am planing to run a Babylon 5
> >based campaign using the MT rules.
> If you want a Babylon-5 campaign, then your conclusions are entirely
> appropriate - the Babylon-5 universe seems to work that way.  If you can
> locate a copy, stargate rules were presented in the first edition of FF&S
> as an alternate technology.

Or, you or someone who has a copy could just send me the gist of it & I
could create my own rules.
 
> wildstar@qrc.com

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:18:43 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

> > >>2) If you could store energy in other forms other that fuel would
that
> not
> > make Jump Drive more Efficent?<<
> > As far as I know, there are no capacitors available that can hold the
> > incredible amount of energy required for a jump for long periods of time.
> Jump capacitors in CT & MT, bubba.  Its canon so try to refute me.>>
> I said LONG periods of time. I am well aware of the existence of Jump
> capacitors in MT but even they don't hold their energy for LONG periods of
> time.

Actually a capacitor can.  Why else do they not want you to remove the back
off your TV?  It has some high powered capacitors in there & shcok you back
a bit.

> >>> You'd be entitled to do this as it is your universe but canon thumpers
> >would say that you aren't playing Traveller anymore but rather Babylon
5. =) 
> >It would radically alter the game, but it's your universe to alter as you
> >see fit.<<
> Well, thank you for that.  I really need you to give me permission to run
> my universe the way I want to.<<
> Obviously, you didn't see my smiley. And to think I was trying to be
> supportive with my post.

My bad, forgot to put a <j/k> at the end.  I am so sorry about that.  I saw
that you were being supportive & was just trying to say "Hey, I see where
you are coming from, funny btw, here is a zinger back at you", but w/o the
<j/k> it did not work.
 
> DED

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:40:13 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Canon thoughts

> >SDBs (an idea first mentioned sometime around JTAS 7 in the original "SDB"
> >article). So ton for ton, an SDB/BR has always been better, either because
> >it costs less or has more teeth.
> 
> IIRC, the same was true of monitors (essentially BRs, without the tenders)
> in the Imperium boardgame.

Well, not only that, but the tonnage used in Fuel & Jump drive on a BB
could be used on a BR as more armor/defensive systems.  Both have the same
limits for teeth, but the BR has better defenses, which in turn means a
better chance to survive contact with the enemy, which in turn means a
better chance to win.  But of course technology does help out a lot.

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:27:48 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

> >>Well my reasoning behind this is a little kown rule from CT-High Guard &
> >>MT.  That when the jump capacitors of a ship are filled then that ship my
> >>jump.  It does not say that you needed to use the fuel or not.  When in
> >>doubt don't modify.
> >[snip]
> >I don't know about MT, but there is no such rule in CT-High Guard.  I don't
> >recall it ever being spelled out but the understanding I had then was much
> >the same as in T4.
> Actually, what he is talking about is listed in CT-High Guard (revised,
> 1980) on pg.39, under "Breaking Off:"
> "Jumping: A ship which breaks off by jumping must have a destination and
> enough fuel to get there. It must expend energy points equal to two turns
> output from a power plant ... ."
> Later, under "The Black Globe" (pg. 43) it states:
> "If a ship absorbs enough energy to make a jump, and is supplied with
> sufficient fuel, it may jump at the end of the turn."

Thank you for looking it up.  I was just too **** lazy to do it.

> He is incorrect, but I admit that until I went back and read it I shared
> his misconception.

Thank you for the rule, but if you have the power, why do you need the
fuel?

> Of course, this brings up that whole "what is the jump fuel for, anyway?"
> question again. If you have the fuel but not the energy to initiate the
> jump, then you can't jump. It seems to cotradict the high-throughput
> reactor theory, for instance. I don't like the "it's used to maintain the
> jump bubble" idea, either. On GURPSnet, one proposal was that the hydrogen
> was used as some sort of FTL reaction mass, and that similar technology
> could be used to explain "reactionless" thrusters (the reaction mass is
> ported into jumpspace).

You don't know either ;<)

Mostly, I think its the designers CTA now becuase they make a
understandable mistake then.   But, then again I could be wrong.

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:43:28 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: FFS2 Jump Energy ?

> Except that the X-boats didn't need P-plants at all (I think it says so in
> Traders & Gunboats). In High Guard there was some rules about the time to
> jump depending on J-n vs P-n. I'll look it up when I get home after work.

Then how did it jump, have life support, sensors, etc?

> <What - are you reading TML duing work!!!
> Get back on those oars matey or taste the whip!>

Sounds like my workplace. ;<)

> /Anders Backman

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:14:00 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on jump drive

> >"Legate" <legate@futureone.com> writes:

Please, my nicname has been Legate ever since I was six years old.  In fact
if I could change my real name to it I would.

> >>Well my reasoning behind this is a little kown rule from CT-High Guard &
> >>MT.  That when the jump capacitors of a ship are filled then that ship my
> >>jump.  It does not say that you needed to use the fuel or not.
> >Yes it does. Well, I won't positively claim that there is no place where
> >it dosen't mention the fuel, but the one place I recall seeing the rule
> >about a ship being able to jump if its capacitors had been filled by
> >absorbing incoming fire, it continues '...provided it has the fuel'. In
> >other words, _none_ of the jump fuel is used to provide the power needed
> >to jump. This was the basis for the alternate suggestion some months ago
> >that jump fuel isn't use as fuel at all, but in some way to open a 'bubble'
> >in jumpspace where the ship can enter. (BTW. did FF&S2 use this idea or
> >ignore it?). IMO this is the explanation that comes closest to resolving
> >the various problems with the CT jump drive.
> I think I read this in the MT:Ref's Manual. About how the Black Globes work.
> If the globe absorbed enough power from incoming fire (and the black globe
> capacitors were large enough) the power could be transferred to the jump
> drive.

So far so good.

> So, a way to make a "jump gate" work, would be to have a black globe with
> large enough capacitors. Have the jump gate "fire" the energy into the black
> globe and "poof" your in jump space. You probably wouldn't need a "full
> size" black globe. Just a small one, perhaps at the front of the ship, to
> absorb the energy.

You would not have to use a black globe at all.  Current tech will allow
for the transfer of energy without using a black globe.

> Of course, I could be remembering the books wrong.

Not really, I just forgot about needing the fuel, but I can work it all out later.

> Question about FFS/FFS2 Do these books go into a lot of detail about how the
> different components work? Like sensors and Jump Drives. I've gone through
> every resource I have (again, I have nothing after MT) and can't find
> anything other than the most basic descriptions.

EM Sensors would work just like EM sensors do today.  One of the best
resourses I find for gaming is PBS/TLC/DSC, but thats me.

> -Shawn

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:47:34 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Gravity Shields

<< I was wondering, in high enough tech level, could a ship use layers of
gravity as shields? >>

Myself, I cannot see why not.  Although, in order to make it simple, I
would either make shields equal to levels of armor, take so much damage, or
do both.  This system will make it simple to use.

<< Would these waves of gravity be able to bend the trajectories of beam
weapons and missles away from the ship? >>

Now here I would use EM waves to deflect the trajectories of HE weapons. 
Ice Clouds to do the same for lasers.  But, if you can create gravity &
anti-gravity well then depends upon the level of gravity you can create. 
Standard Shields from SF would protect from all attacks.

<< What limitations would there be? >>

Up to the GM.  But, I would not allow HE weapons to be used when EM waves
type shields are being used, Lasers when Ice Clouds are uses, etc  As to
shields it is up to the GM.  Myself, I do it this way, when you are firing
weapons at TL-15 the shields MUST be turned off one second before you fire
& can be turned on one second after you fire.  At TL-17 you can set the
shields to cover everything, but the weapons, so that you are protected,
but you can still be hit.  At TL-20 full prtection.


<< And how would this effect the ship in question? >>

See above.

Btw, does anyone else use seperate TLs for some worlds.  Like lets say you
have a R&D world with a average of TL-15, but has a TL-17 in a few areas,
like Power Plants, Lasers, Fuels,, & Medical?  Or am I just being strange?
;<)

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:52:53 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: PBEM Task Resolution

PBEM is really bad for Roll-playing. If neither of you trust the other,
then it just won't work. About all you can do is generate long lists of
random numbers make copies and cross 'em off as you go. As long as you use
the same page of the same list you'll do fine.  

PBEM's are far better for Role-playing. You have to let the GM do all the
task resolution, and accept the results. On the other hand the GM has to
be scrupulously fair. Setting up the scenarios to minimize random task
rolls is also useful.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


On Wed, 28 Jan 1998, Stevie D (aka Bloo) wrote:

> I'm trying to start a PBEM campaign with my brother and a friend (the
> most I can handle).  But what to do to simlulate die rolling?  Are there
> any untilities that will allow 2 people on the net see the results of
> the same roll?  We hope to use chat, but I don't trust him to tell me
> his die rolls, and he doesn't trust me.  We are brothers after all.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Bloo
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 13:05:08 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gravity Shields

On Thu, 29 Jan 1998, J-Man wrote:

> I was wondering, in high enough tech level, could a ship use layers of
> gravity as shields?  Would these waves of gravity be able to bend the
> trajectories of beam weapons and missles away from the ship?  what
> limitations would there be?  And how would this effect the ship in
> question?
> 

Ooohhh...this _is_ interesting...if we have grav-FOCUSED lasers, what
about grav-UNFOCUSED ones?

One immediate problem I see is the scale you'll need...the handwave over
grav-focussing is that very high strength grav plates are used to bend the
laser into a long range focus. You would need astonishingly high grav
fields rather close to your ship to bend incoming lasers away. These
fields will also play havoc with your own sensors and weapons.

Hmmmm...it begins to sound like a functional description of Black Globe
technology to me.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 15:10:42 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert N Harris <rh1i+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Canon thoughts

Excerpts from mail.TML: 29-Jan-98 Re: Canon thoughts by Merrick
Burkhardt@Rt66.c 
> > Merrick, this isn't a shot, it's a serious question.  Where and when did
> > the *fact* of "peace maintained by squadrons of huge Battleships" take
> > hold?  It wasn't apparent in the 3 LLBs, it wasn't in the CT adventures,
> > and as you say it wasn't in HG.  I haven't gone back and checked JTAS, did
> > it take hold after the FFW?  Was it during the MT era that the
> > multi-hundred thousand ton BBs became orthodox?  As I've written about I
> > didn't buy many of the MT books, staying with CT for flavor, setting and
> > feel.  It was a surprise for me to see the sizes of some of the MT and even
> > TNE era ships.
>  
> Sup. 9 Fighting Ships, and Library Data both talk about it (Library
> data has a picture of a very Star Destroyer-like Sylea BB, for
> example. Sup. 9 has a the Tigress, Plankwell, and at least one othe
> r BB I think

Korriak (sp) or something like that. Smaller than a Tigress larger than
Plankwell. 250KT sounds about right
Its the one that looks like a Star destroyer. Just before the 5th
frontier was I believe the Spinward marches had 3 squadrons. All this
from memory about Book 9

Also don't forget the Lurenti/Nolikian battle tender/rider combo.
Tender had 6 I think riders(and several squadrons of fighters). I cant
remember the tonnages. I can check when I get home.

This comes from the CT Spinward Marches Campaigne Book. I really enjoyed
this one. It had the history & TO&E for the Regina's famous lift
Infantry Reg. Also had the history of BatRon. 

All in all a great book. Let me know if anyone wants the particualrs

Rob



- ----------------------------------
Rob Harris
Center for Cognitive Brain Imaging
Dept. of Psychology, CMU
268-5210
rh1i+@andrew.cmu.edu 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 13:18:43 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Decompression/T4.1 Hit System

On Thu, 29 Jan 1998, Glenn Grant wrote:

> Stevie D (aka Bloo) <blueboy@bu.edu> said,
> 
> >Glenn Grant wrote:
> >
> >> Another problem is ebullism - see my accompanying post on vac exposure. Gas
> >> bubbles in the blood might kill a PC even if recompression is quickly
> >> achieved. Survival would perhaps require a test of END, difficulty
> >> depending on how long the PC was exposed to vac. Even if this test is
> >> failed, the PC might still survive if treated immediately by another PC:
> >> Difficult test of Medical, with bonuses if a sick bay or autodoc is nearby.
> >
> >Wouldn't one of these in the brain be fatal?
> 
> I'm not a doctor, but as I understand it, gas bubbles in the blood can be
> deadly. But, I suspect, not always. I understand that 'the bends' can be
> excruciatingly painful, but is usually survivable.

The blood does not erupt into foam like a opened, shaken soda bottle. The
gases do take some time do come out of solution.

Actually, the bends can be rather slow to come on, occurring as long as
24-48 hours after a dive. The treatment is also pretty straightforward
you re-compress the diver and properly decompress them in stages.

Since your are (hopefully) _permanently_ recompressing the poor spacing
victim simply by bringing them back into the airlock, there's no special
treatment needed.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 21:14:11 +0100
From: Mikel <mizal@arrakis.es>
Subject: Another Thoughts on Jump

Hello everybody on the list again!!
(when i was last in the list i started a debate on the efects of spacing
people, a year later it is here again)

So, lets go with more questions

In MT and TNE the time in J-Space is 6,7, or 8 days at random.
But can this time be calculated before the ship exits J-space?

I mean, people in the ship have a countdown to exit time? so they ar at
battle stations when the ship emerges?

Or when the ship exits and the computer detects it in the 6th day we
have alarms . WARNING WARNING we are at real-space everybody to the
bridge!!!

Does someone knows the canon answer? :-)
Does anyone knows other answers?

PS: sorry for my english it's very bad today...

- ---------------------------------
Mikel Izal Azcárate
mizal@arrakis.es

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 15:15:30 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

<Snip>
>> According to current (T4 and IIRC CT) technobabble, you don't burn any of
>> the fuel, it is used to create and maintain the "real-space" "jump
>bubble".
>
>So when you jump you spray the fuel outside into space around your ship?
>LOL, what a bloody joke.  Next thing they will tell is that when you use
>the jump drive the crew & passengers drink the fuel to maintain a "real
>space" "jump bubble".  If this is the standard for T4, thank god I quit
>buying after MT was ended.  TNE looked like unrealistic garbage.  T4,
>sounds like Star Trek.
    
    Whoah there partner.  Them be fighting words.  "Unrealistic garbage?"
Normally, I could take extreme umbridge w/ that.  If fact, i do. : ) 
<retort about the realism of MT snipped for the sake of tact>
    TNE was the giant leap towards realism.  FF&S (the True and Original) was
the foundation of the entire line.  The only version of Traveller that had a
consistent approach to its technology from the beginning.  CT took how long to
get all of the rules out?  MT has stuff (most highly user unfriendly) strewn
through numerous supplements (COACC, Refs Companion, the basic) and T4 well...
'nuff said.  
     Hmm... drinking J fuel.  Quick! How many calories in hydrogen?  

<Snip>

>that I
>> don't know about?  Or, has Bab5 invaded the TML?
>
>Babylon 5 has invaded the TML in the form of me.  I like Babylon 5, you got
>a problem with that?
>
>As for a book or supplement that you don't know about, well I had the
>thought of placing jump gates into Traveller ever since I bought CT 0, 1,
>2, & 3, & thought, "Well if a jump drive weighs so much & uses so much fuel
>why not use controlled wormholes?", but we will not get into my background.

Well my answer would be... if they've been lugging around these heavy and fuel
hungry jump drives for like 10000 years now in basically the same form, they
must be necessary.  

>Legate
>legate@futureone.com

>"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
>severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

"I know his name"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 13:22:08 -0700
From: Sanders <timmon@primenet.com>
Subject: Battleriders v. Battleships I

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                      BATTLERIDERS VS. BATTLESHIPS
                                 - by -
                        Paul Montgomery Crabaugh


               Rumors are  being heard about a  civilian study of
         Imperial  naval   doctrine  which  may   cause  a  major
         explosion in the Navy's methods of ship procurement.

               This study was conducted by Interstellar Technical
         Consultants of Mora, in response to an IN request for an
         analysis  of  the  relative  merits  of battleriders and
         battleships  in naval  policy.  This  has always  been a
         difficult subject, with many partisans on both sides but
         no agreement. All  that can be said of  the ITC study is
         that it will undoubtedly provoke quite a reaction.

               Details are not available for the most part, since
         much of the report is classified, but the broad outlines
         are now known.

               The  controversy  surrounding  the  two  types  of
         capital  ship has  been built  on one  key point: that a
         battleship derives much of its  value from the fact that
         it  has a  jump drive,   for which  advantage it  pays a
         considerable cost in terms  of mass that could otherwise
         produce  energy  or  house  weapons.  A  battle  rider -
         essentially a battleship without a jump drive, delivered
         on target by a mother ship, which usually carries a full
         squadron - is more  powerful, kilogram for kilogram, and
         frequently less expensive, as well.

               Thus  it is  argued that  a 70,000  ton battleship
         will always  be severly handled  by a 70,000  ton battle
         rider, which demonstrates the  superiority of the battle
         rider concept.

               The ITC study contradicts  this view, labelling it
         "specious" and a "sophistry".

               The argument is that in truth, the strategic value
         of a 70,000 ton battle rider is nil; it is merely a very
         large system  defense boat. Only  when it is  mated with
         the mother  ship's jump drive  does it aquire  strategic
         value.  Therefore,  in  comparing  the  relative  combat
         effectiveness of  a battle rider's  share of the  mother
         ship's mass should be added.

               In  the  example  being  used,  it  is not fair to
         compare a  70,000 ton battleship to  a 70,000 ton battle
         rider;  after including  the equal  share of  the mother
         ship's  jump  drive  and  fuel,  the  battle rider would
         actually be  equivalent to something like  a 120,000 ton
         battleship.

               The  ITC report  drily notes  that it  comes as no
         surprise that a 70,000  ton battleship would be defeated
         by a 120,000 ton battleship.

               Futhermore,  the report  cites other disadvantages
         to battleriders.

               Among these  is the well-known  vulnerability of a
         battle rider  squadron to the  loss of its  mother ship.
         Whole squadrons  can be cut off  and forced to surrender
         by  a  few  well-placed  shots.  The  mother ship cannot
         adequately  defend  itself   without  becoming  a  major
         warship  itself,  a  self-  defeating design philosophy.
         Futhermore, using the battle riders to defend the mother
         ship  restricts  them  to  a  defensive  role.  Lack  of
         iniative is  to some extent  rewarded, a lethal  mode of
         thought in a naval battle.

               Another  disadvantage is  difficulty in  deploying
         battle riders. If an objective  or mission calls for the
         presence  of a  single capital  ship, or  perhaps two or
         three,  battle riders  are difficult  to use  in such  a
         role,  because they  can generally  only be  deployed as
         integral squadrons of a half-dozen or more. The only way
         to send a single battle rider  on a mission is to send a
         mother ship with it. Battle riders thus must be deployed
         with the main battle fleets,  and during times of peace,
         cannot be used for the "gunboat diplomacy" so often seen
         on the Imperial fringes.

               The ITC study also  claims that battle riders are,
         contrary  to  current  opinion,  actually undergunned in
         comparison to battleships. This rather esoteric argument
         relies  on  the  fact  that  the  number  and caliber of
         weapons  carried  by  a  warship  is  determined  not by
         available power,  since there is  generally enough power
         available for many more weapons  than the ship can carry
         if a trade-off in maneuverability  is accepted - but, by
         the mass, surface  area and shape, and crew  size of the
         ship involved.  All other things  being equal, in  other
         words, to the sheer size.

               Therefore, even  though a 70,000  ton battle rider
         is equivalent  to a 120,000  ton battleship, the  battle
         rider  is  armed  like  a  70,000  ton battleship, not a
         larger one. It is  exceptionally well-armed and has vast
         reserves of  power - but it  is still armed only  to the
         scale of  a ship half  its equivalent size,  which would
         ensure that  a 120,000 ton  battleship would be  able to
         crush it in a starship duel.

               The only way to recover the difference would be to
         arm the mother ship, making full use of the true size of
         the battle rider, not merely the small combat portion of
         it.   However,  again,   arming  the   mother  ship   is
         self-defeating: with  the weapons would have  to go more
         power   production,  more   powerful  computers,  better
         defences and more acceleration, all reducing its ability
         to  carry  battle  riders.   The  end  result  would  be
         something   like   a   carrier   which   carried  a  few
         extraordinarily  large fighters  rather than  many small
         ones.

               Altho  the ITC  study was  not commissioned  to do
         more than  compare the two  design philosophies, it  did
         include several recommendations  for long-range planning
         of naval construction. It called  for a shift to a fleet
         composed exclusively, of  battleships and the relegation
         of battle riders to main fleets in quiet areas.

               It also recommended that studies be conducted into
         the feasibility of a hybrid  sort of ship: essentially a
         battle rider  with a limited jump  capability, Jump-1 or
         Jump-2. It is pointed out that such a design might prove
         valuable. The  battle riders would no  longer face total
         defeat if their mother ship was disabled, for one thing.
         For another,  the mother ship  could in some  situations
         not even be exposed to danger; it could be used to ferry
         the battle riders to within a parsec or so of the target
         world  and let  the battle  riders complete  the journey
         under their own power.


         END.

         Author: Paul Montgomery Crabaugh.
         Article: DIFFERENT WORLDS #26, page 13.
         Date: January 1983.
Traveller-digest     Thursday, January 29 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 066



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Battleriders v. Battleships II
Battleriders v. Battleships III
Re: Another Thoughts on Jump
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Canon thoughts
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations II
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
+D -D Discussion
re: +D-D Discussion (renamed)
Re: Low tech colony ship
Brocolli - was +D-D Discussion (renamed)
Re: Death and Dying
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Thoughts on jump drives
Re: A Question about Hits
Re: nD+D-D Considered
Wounds and Healing

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 13:22:57 -0700
From: Sanders <timmon@primenet.com>
Subject: Battleriders v. Battleships II

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                     Battleriders   vs.  Battleships
                          * The Navy Replies *
                                 - by -
                              John Harshman


               In  a  previous  issue   of  this  magazine,  Paul
         Montgomery  Crabaugh  reported   the  results  of  study
         conducted by Interstellar Technical Consultants of Mora,
         ostensibly  at   the  request  of   the  Imperial  Navy,
         regarding  the  relative  merits  of  battle-riders  and
         battleships. The results of  the study, if valid, reveal
         the  total  bankruptcy  of  the  Imperial  Navy's  force
         structure; it  is therefore incumbent  upon the Navy  to
         explain its position to the public.

               First  a   disclaimer:  the  ITC   study  was  not
         commissioned  by the  Navy;  indeed,  the Navy  has been
         unable to  procure a copy  of the study's  final report,
         and  this  reply  is  necessarily  based  wholly  on Mr.
         Crabaugh's article. (Although he  fails to so state, Mr.
         Crabaugh is an officer of ITC).

               Mr. Crabaugh begins with a common misconception of
         the traditional  argument for battle-riders:  this being
         that a  battle-rider, unburdened with a  jump drive, can
         defeat a  battleship of equal  tonnage. As Mr.  Crabaugh
         states, this  is both obvious and  meaningless. The true
         argument,  which the  Navy has  always used,  is that  a
         fleet  composed  of  battle-riders  (and  the  necessary
         number  of   fleet  tenders)  can  defeat   a  fleet  of
         battleships constructed at the same cost.

               It is profitable to  analyze the costs of starship
         design. Separating  the jump and  combat functions saves
         costs  in several  areas and  adds costs  in others.  In
         order to  fulfill its strategic role,  a battle squadron
         must be capable of  jump-4; jump drives and (especially)
         jump fuel make  up 53% of the tonnage  in a jump-4 ship.
         Battle-riders save the cost of armor, meson screens, and
         high-agility maneuver  drives for this  immense tonnage.
         There  are  additional  costs  for  more  duplication of
         hulls, power plants, computers,  and maneuver drives for
         the  fleet tender  (which Mr.Crabaugh  calls the  mother
         ship).  On balance,  however, the  battle-rider squadron
         comes in at a considerable cost savings.

               Another  useful  squadron  comparison  is  that of
         survivability.     Many     starship     systems     are
         tonnage-dependent; they take up  a certain percentage of
         the ship's tonnage regardless of its size. These systems
         fight for space within a design. Battleships, with their
         53% of dead space (for battle purposes), are at a severe
         disadvantage   in  this   fight.  A   battleship  cannot
         simultaneously  possess  the   best  armor,  best  meson
         screen,  and a  high agility;  with the  jump drive  and
         fuel, these components would add up to more than 100% of
         its hull  space. Compromises must be  made in the design
         of a  battleship, while a battle-rider  requires no such
         compromises.  A  battle-rider,   being  smaller  than  a
         battleship, is also somewhat harder to hit. This adds up
         to a much higher survivability for the battle-rider.

               The ITC  study presents several  further arguments
         against  the battle-rider/fleet  tender system,  none of
         which have been borne out in practice.

              It is claimed that battle-riders are undergunned in
         comparison   to   battleships.   True,   a  120,000  ton
         battleship can  carry more total weaponry  than a 70,000
         ton battle-rider (assuming the weaponry and power supply
         therefore  will  fit),  but  the  majority  of a capital
         ship's offensive power is  contained in its spinal mount
         weapon,  and  no  ship,  whatever  its  size, has so far
         proven capable of mounting  more than one spinal weapon.
         The battle-rider  can mount the same  spinal weapon as a
         battleship; their relative  offensive strengths are much
         closer  than  mere  tonnage  would  indicate.  Moreover,
         70,000 tons  is very large for  a battle-rider; most are
         between 30,000 and 50,000  tons, yet possess as powerful
         a main weapon as the largest battleship at a fraction of
         the cost.

               The  report   claims  that  unarmed   tenders  are
         vulnerable in battle. Actual battle experience has shown
         that a  fleet's battle-riders are  fully capable capable
         of   protecting  the   tender  from   enemy  fire  while
         simultaneously  engaging in  offensive aaction.  Only if
         the battle line were broken would the tenders be exposed
         to fire  (and in such  a case most  of the battle-riders
         would necessarily be crippled  or destroyed already). An
         admiral who  feels that tenders restrict  his tactics is
         fully capable of releasing the  riders from a jump point
         far from the  area of battle and leaving  the tenders to
         remain  there; it  is  very  unlikely that  a patrolling
         enemy  would locate  them given  such a  large volume of
         space  to  search.  Battle-riders  are  fully capable of
         operating on  their own for  periods of a  month or more
         (indefinitely if there is a source of fuel).

               Finally,     the    study     claims    that     a
         battle-rider/tender-based fleet is inflexible. One rider
         cannot be sent to a  trouble spot the way one battleship
         can; the smallest unit is  a tender transporting four to
         eight riders.  While true, this  has not proven  a major
         drawback. The  study correctly states that  the main use
         of  single  capital  ships   is  in  what  Mr.  Crabaugh
         indelicately terms  "gunboat diplomacy." (The  Navy uses
         the less emotionally  loaded "deterrent demonstration.")
         The purpose  is to safeguard the  lives and interests of
         Imperial citizens  in the various  smaller states beyond
         the    Imperial    borders    by    a   public   (though
         non-threatening) display of the Navy's power. However, a
         large   cruiser  is   generally  sufficient   for  these
         demonstrations.  There  are  enough  battleships  in the
         fleet to cover the few instances in which a cruiser will
         not  serve, and  most of  these are  concentrated in the
         appropriate frontier regions for just such uses.

               The  conclusions to  be drawn  is that  the Navy's
         current construction and  deployment policies are indeed
         the  best possible  solution to  our defense  needs. Any
         return  to  a  battleship  navy  would  have  disastrous
         consequences;  be  assured  that  the  Zhodani  and  the
         so-called Solomani Confederation  (whose fleets are also
         composed of battle-riders) are well aware of this.

                                                Sir John Harshman
                                           Captain, Imperial Navy

         By Direction:
         Vice Admiral Baron Mtume,
         C-in-C Corridor Fleet


         END.

         Author: John Harshman.
         Article: Different Worlds #29, page 21.
         Date: June 1983.Traveller-digest     Thursday, January 29 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 067



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Initial colonization considerations
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
A FF&S question...
Re: dates in UWPs?
Re: Cyberware
HG size limit
RE: Canon Vargs
RE: Battleriders v. Battleships
Critical Hits and +D-D
RE: Wounds and Healing
Re: Gravity Shields
RE: Initial colonization considerations
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: +D -D (was Re: Time of Death for Spacing)
Re: +D3-D3
Re: Rules Questions
Re: nD+D-D Considered

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 14:05:57 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Initial colonization considerations

On Thu, 29 Jan 1998, Legate wrote:
 
> Just a few thoughts here about High Population worlders going to a colony
> world.  What would be the psychological impact to them?  What I mean is
> that the people on the home world would think "Thank god, something is
> being done about the problem."  But, with people raised in a dense
> population situation would this not cause some problems with them working
> together, i.e. not trust, thinking the other person is going to stab them
> in the back.  By High Population, I mean in the tens of billions, not what
> we have now.

Actually, very High-Pop worlds I'd expect to be far more conformist; you
would have to be to get along in such high pop densities. They'd have
little problem working together.

A more real problem with such a venture, would be the psychological
reaction of the colonists to suddenly being 'alone' on a world; after all
moving from, say, Hong Kong to a Pop 200 town in Montana is going to be a
_serious_ adjustment, even if they all still spoke Chinese.

Bu, I suppose you could select for that, unless you're just scooping
people off the street, and shooting them off to the stars, which is a
different kettle of fish entirely.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 13:09:19 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:18:43 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
> > I said LONG periods of time. I am well aware of the existence of Jump
> > capacitors in MT but even they don't hold their energy for LONG periods
> of
> > time.

> Actually a capacitor can.  Why else do they not want you to remove the back
> off your TV?  It has some high powered capacitors in there & shcok you back
> a bit.

Because capacitors can be used to hold _some_ energy indefinately does
mean they can hold the energy density needed to exceed what you get
from fusing a certain amount of hydrogen.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 15:21:04 -0600
From: "Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: A FF&S question...

Just curious...

Has anyone tried to create real-world designs using FF&S? Like a F-16
fighter? Or a M-1 battle tank? Or a AH-64 gunship?

I'm curious...can the system do it? Can the system do better? Can you in
FF&S design a fighter than is signficantly better than a F-15/16/18/22?

I know too little about the real-world objects to try this for myself...

Just wondering...

Andy Akins
igor@ames.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 13:18:39 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: dates in UWPs?

At 07:19 PM 1/29/98 +0000, John Wood wrote:
>Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote,
>A more universally useful choice would be to ignore all lines starting
>with characters outside a certain set.  I have some software from
>sunbane (I think) that treats lines beginning with '#', '$' or '@'
>specially.  How about a general rule to ignore lines which begin with
>any punctuation character except for a few that might be useful as part
>of the name field - perhaps single or double quote, brackets,
>parentheses, '!','*' and '-'?
>
>I have an algorithm for recognising the most common variant file formats
>(dgp, tab delimited, etc) based on certain assumptions and patterns to
>be found in the text (e.g. 4 digits surrounded by whitespace for the
>location, XXXXXXX-X with X alphanumeric for the UWP).  I posted this
>some time ago; I'll try to write a portable C routine to parse sector
>files.  And no, I don't want to learn Java just for this! 8-)

If you do put it up in C, I will likely turn it into Java.  I am currently
fiddling with that code in my program, and it is ugly ugly ugly, in a
number of ways.

Scott

Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 98 22:20 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Cyberware

Moin Ian or Katts,

> The short answer is "Traveller doesnt do cyberware".

	It depends - TNE did as did MT: FFS1 even had rules for cyberware
	and MT had an area where they had been comon. HIWG :

	" Working with the S'mrii has proved particularly rewarding. S'mrii
	neurotechnology mixed with Lancian creativity led to the development of
	a vast range of cybertechnologies. Technological cast-offs found their
	way into the core of Gushemege where their uses were not quite so
	regulated or creative. "

> The 3rd Imperium is therefore down 2 TLs in cyberware, and it has strong
> social and political restrictions on it's use.

	-1 on charisma for any visible cyberware was FFS rule.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 98 21:42 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: HG size limit

Hy folks,

	even If I'm a TNE freak, I like adopting rules from other sources.
	I think to remember that HG had a tl-computer-size limit table.
	Can anybody who have it, be so nice to type it in (6 rows are
	not much ;-) and to post it here.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 98 21:53 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: RE: Canon Vargs

Moin Miller, Chris,

> 	I will say that the largest Vargr ship I remember seeing stats
> for was about 10,000 tons. Kinda puny against a 200KTon BB, but then I
> realized you can only fire that spinal mount so often, and there are a
> lot of Vargr, and again, to a Far Trader etc, 10,000 tons  might as well
> be 100,000.

	Well the two large canon Vargr ships are the Foghoks 10 kTons
	and Aek Naz 30kTons. As both are classfied as cruisers I think
	Vargr BBs could be bigger, if they had some. Perhaps they prefer
	the wolfpack of several cruisers over a single large BB. They are
	only limited by psychology to small ships, not by HG techlevel
	as there are also known Ueknou's at Tl:14.

	The Aek Naz had just the size to mount a heavy spinal in MT.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:00:43 -0600
From: "Miller, Chris" <CMiller@uniden.com>
Subject: RE: Battleriders v. Battleships

>                       BATTLERIDERS VS. BATTLESHIPS
> 
- --------> All this is very interesting, but in CT (High Guard) and MT
also, the Spinal Mounts did the real damage, even with heavy screens and
armor, and many times getting the first shot made the difference. Once
either is large enough to carry the maximum size gun, the secondary
batteries become quite a bit less important. From a strategic point of
view, I would rather have fewer ships which could jump in variable sized
squadrons(assuming BB's are more expensive), rather than more ships
concentrated into groups (BR's) which I see as less flexible. Again, I
can see reasons for both, and I imagine you would see both in the
Imperial Navy. BR's would be better as attrition units, as it's cheaper
to replace the ships (theoretically anyway) without a Jump drive
- -assuming you don't lose the tender. They also make good
easily-repositioned defensive units if you know an attack may be coming.

	Oh, except for that "riders with lifeboats" bit. I can see
having jump-capable couriers on board, but the lack of a jump drive on
the ship means you lose a ship which requires years to construct, even
if the crew survives. Pretty soon, you have plenty of crews, and no
ships to put them on. I don't think that one of the knocks on BR's was
the lack of survivability of the crew alone - it was losing the whole
system.

Chris Miller

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:52:57 EST
From: T4Aslan@aol.com
Subject: Critical Hits and +D-D

In a message dated 98-01-28 13:23:41 EST, you write:

                                                                              
<< I liked your
 suggestion of a critical hit/oops system.  It makes more sense (that is it
 is more intuitive).  Although, I think a critical with a FGMP should do more
 extra damage that a critical with a knife, so just adding +D or +1/2D is
 probably not the answer I will use in my campaign. >>

 How about just multiplying the damage on a critical success by 2 or 3?  
I should be possible to kill someone with one hit, say with a sword(2D).
Realistically you can kill someone with one hit of a sword or one shot
from say a body pistol.  In game terms its impossible with out some
sort of criticle damage system.  Just using maximum damage as the
result still wouldn't do it.  
                  Ref: "The Aslan shots you with his body pistol.  You
                         take 6 points of damage."
                  Player: "O.K. I'll pull out my sword as I walk towards him."
                  Ref: "He shoots you again for 6 more points."
                  Player: "O.K. I walk up to him and attack."
He can take at least one more shot before he'll go down.  I like the T4
system for this better than TNE. Do you realize how many shots is takes
to kill someone who has a value of say 40 or so for his chest.  Even 
maximum damage from weapon with a 6d value only does 36 points of damage.
     Well sorry to ramble on, But I do like Mr. Miller's new idea. It could be
incorperated by just rolling two extra die of different colors(at the same
time as
the damage roll) and predetermine which is a minus and which is plus. For
example roll 4d for the 2d sword with 2 die being black, one being red(for
minus)
and one being white(for the plus).  Its not really much more work unless you
don't know how to add or subtract.  That's just my ideas and how I'm starting
to run my campaign.  One last thing: A critical success might just add another
white(plus) die to the roll.
                        Thanks, 
                              Harold of the Rocks
                              T4Aslan@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:08:22 -0600
From: "Miller, Chris" <CMiller@uniden.com>
Subject: RE: Wounds and Healing

> Types of Damage
> 
> Some attacks (eg punches or asphyxiation) do Stun damage; most do 
> Normal damage. Stun damage is less dangerous, and heals faster, 
> although it can still kill.
> 
- -------Uh-oh, additional damage category - this could get ugly...
> Applying Damage
> 
> The first hit a PC receives is applied to a single characteristic. 
> Further damage is applied 1 die at a time to any characteristic. Cross
> 
> off a number of boxes (with a pencil) equal to the number of points 
> received. If a PC takes Stun Damage, use a single diagonal line ("/").
> 
> If the damage is Normal, use an "X". If damage  (of any sort) is 
> applied to a characteristic that has been reduced to 0 through Stun 
> damage, convert this to Normal damage.
> 
- ----------> Been reading a FASA product lately, have we? 
(for the uninitiated, this is largely the Mechwarrior damage system)

Not a terrible idea, but if we're going to revamp the damage system this
thoroughly, why not some kind of hit location system. I mean, which is
better :
"Ow - he shot me in the strength!"
- -or-
"Ow, he shot me in the arm!"

I've experimented with linking attributes to body parts - say end to
torso, dex to legs, str to arms, but people always want to argue things
like "well strength would be more appropriate to legs than dex" etc and
it tends to get a little messy, but would a simple arm/leg/chest/head
system be too much to ask? Makes it easy to add in some kind of task
modifiers too.

Chris Miller

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 14:03:16 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Gravity Shields

Thanks for the answer, I was designing an alien race that exclusively
used Gravity as a defense system, and was wondering how effective that
could be, at higher tech levels.  I'm referring to a ship using gravity
close to the mass of a singularity.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:22:41 -0600
From: "Miller, Chris" <CMiller@uniden.com>
Subject: RE: Initial colonization considerations

> > >>
> > Especially if the colony is being founded by a Hi pop world that
> wants to
> > eat into its population growth problem. (Yes I know you can't ship
> 'em
> > offplanet fast enough. But it's psychologically important, and it
> does
> > eventually make a bit of difference).
> > Andy
> 
> Just a few thoughts here about High Population worlders going to a
> colony
> world.  What would be the psychological impact to them?  What I mean
> is
> that the people on the home world would think "Thank god, something is
> being done about the problem."  But, with people raised in a dense
> population situation would this not cause some problems with them
> working
> together, i.e. not trust, thinking the other person is going to stab
> them
> in the back.  By High Population, I mean in the tens of billions, not
> what
> we have now.
> 
> 
- --------> You could look at the American west in the late 1800's for at
least one example of moving from a denser population to a more open
area. Granted, it wasn't Hong Kong, but it seemed crowded to _them_. Why
did they go? Economic opportunity was probably the biggest factor (own
your own land, etc). The "frontier" mentality may overcome a lot of this
distrust - being at a lower TL and a long ways from home can work some
pretty serious attitude adjustments. Same with some of the early
colonization of North America - different rules (more freedom for
religious groups), land, etc. I don't think you'll find a higher ratio
of women to men, just the opposite I think. Also, a higher proportion of
your colonists will probably tend to come from discontented segments of
the population, which may solve some "problems" at home beyond simple
overcrowding.
	Then of course, there's the Australian example. Involuntary
colonists...
	Not trying to be Euro-centric, just that these are the only
examples I know enough about to comment on.

Chris Miller

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:38:28 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

David P. Summers wrote:
> 
> Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:49:13 -0800, Scott Ellsworth
> <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
> > Getting serious again, it is a reasonable hypothesis.  If you have ever
> > bothered to work out how much energy you would get from fusing that much
> > H2, you would see that it is a tremendous amount - enough that jump drive
> > power plants would replace all others if they had even a small fraction of
> > the efficiency of a regular power plant.
> 
> Well, this is not clear.  But that has been debated before.

It has seemed pretty clear to me, in the previous debates.
 
> I will just add that, for me, rather than retool a whole entire
> theory of jump drive which is forced to fit the constraints
> impossed by the previous theory (and so has to arbitrarily
> fit things that don't flow naturally from it) it would be better
> to keep it simple.  My take is the the reason why jump reactors
> can have higher throughputs is the same reason jump drives
> need such througput.  You need to sink a lot of energy
> into jump space, but that also provides a sink to dump energy
> quick enough that you don't melt down the reactor.  This is simple,
> inutitive, and fits the best with previous background.  It doesn't
> have the arbitrary feel that one gets (IMO) from trying to
> fit a theory to constraints that have nothing to do with that
> theory.

That's actually, a reasonable theory. Still doesn't sit well to me,
however. How does the energy get channelled into jumpspace? What kind of
current-carrier can withstand such energies? Why can't such a process be
used for weapons of mass destruction? How does a fusion reactor melt
down, anyway? Why is the amount of fuel dependant upon the *volume* of
the ship?

You'll have to come up with arbitrary answers to those questions.

> > Perhaps even more telling, a jump is possible with unrefined fuel.  Damn
> > few power plants can accept a significant fraction of other chemicals in
> > the feedstocks, especially they horrific mix in most gas giants.
> 
> > As a result, they are certainly not using the H2 for fuel
> 
> I don't agree.  A gas giant is 99% hydrogen and helium most plower
> can run with 1% impurities.  Obviously no one has built a practical
> fusion power plant, but the idea that it can't tolerate traces of
> impurities is debatable at best.

I'll argue from the other angle, then. If fusion power plants can run
with a minimal amount of impurities (a reasonable assumption, imho) then
why are there misjump rules that specifically take into account risks in
using unrefined rules -- *fuel*, I mean?
                
I accidentally typed "rules", It seemed a propos, so I left it in. ;-)

> In any case, Traveller allows unrefined fuel to be used for maneuver
> drives, weapons, etc.  All cases where it is clearly being used
> for a fusion plant.

Agreed. So, why the misjump rules?

Note: I'm only arguing the point to try and illustrate that no matter
how you justify Jump Drive fuel, arbitrary decisions will be made, and
arbitrary handwaves will be needed to justify them. The Jump Bubble/Jump
Ballast theory is as reasonable to me as a high-capacity fusion
reaction. And it fits the rules better, to boot.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:39:17 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

David P. Summers wrote:
> 
> > I don't like the "it's used to maintain the
> > jump bubble" idea, either.
> 
> Well, the problem is that you are trying have a drive and retroactively
> come up with reasons why it just happens to use fusion fuel without
> needing it for fusion.  That kind of thing always tends to (IMO at
> least) leave hokey or arbitrary taste in the mouth.

Well, Hydrogen has zillions of other uses besides being a fusion fuel.
After all, it is the simplest, most abundant element in the universe. I
don't feel the jump bubble theory is arbitrary or hokey.

What feels arbitrary to me is the theory that Jump Drives are capable of
generating a huge amount of energy in an impossibly short amount of time
by consuming vast amounts of fuel. Yet, strangely, this process cannot
be used in "regular" energy production. How can that paradox be
reconciled?

I guess everyone has their point of view when it comes to
believability...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:51:42 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: +D -D (was Re: Time of Death for Spacing)

On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:15:25 -0600, Joseph R. Dietrich wrote:

> >I'd say include it as an optional rule, IMHO.  It is still rather awkward
> >to use compared to the old method...
> >
> >Old method: Roll a number of dice and add them together
> >
> >New method: Roll a number of dice and add them together,
> >            Then roll two additional dice (+D -D) and work out the result,
> >           *Then* subtract the result of the "+D -D" from the total of the
> >               first batch of dice
> >
> >That's an extra two steps.
> 
> Ahh. I see now. Thank you, Mr. Lindsay, for reiterating the rule in
> question (I missed the original post, just rejoining the list).

"The name's James-- Mr. Lindsay if you're nasty" ;P



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mono au mono, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:51:44 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: +D3-D3

On Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:14:09 -0600, Richard A. Flores wrote:

> Marc wrote:
> 
> >In a message dated 98-01-28 10:18:53 EST, you write:
> >
> ><< Whatever you do, Marc, don't make it "+D3 -D3"  :) >>
> >
> >Let's start a whole new thread and argue the merits of half dice. If I
> >remember correctly, one argument against using half dice was they were only
> >used in resolving a few tasks. So let's find other ways to implement half
> >dice.
> >
> ><facetious mode off>
> >
> >Marc
> 
> Projectile ejection of sparkling effusion designed to quench thirst through
> nasal orifices bodes ill for finish of cyberspace interface device.

ROTFLMAO!!  That's a keeper!



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mono au mono, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:51:48 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Rules Questions

On Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:53:49 -0600, Miller, Chris wrote:

> 	OK, I've played Traveller since 1981 and normally try to keep up
> with the various products, and I've lived through and played each new
> version, but I'm stumped on a few things in recent products and I'm
> turning to the list:
> 
> 1) Where are the rules for RF and VRF bonuses? These are mentioned in
> several places - the Arsenal book and FF&S2, but I cannot find anything
> which spells out exactly what they do for T4.

Rules for such can be extrapolated from the T4 conversion rules in BTRC's
"Guns!Guns!Guns!".  They are as follows:

     ROF      Rounds/    Damage    RoF DM
               Turn*
      -        <30         1.5x      -1
      -       30-60         2x       +0
      -       61-120       2.5x      +1
      RF     121-300        3x       +2
     VRF       >300         4x       +4

* based on a /sustained/ ROF (reloading in the middle of a turn to
  obtain a higher ROF is not allowed)

> 2) FF&S2 figures a Recoil number for small arms. Why? We had this in
> TNE, but it wasn't in T4's main rules, or anywhere else I've looked, and
> again, no recoil numbers in Arsenal. So, I assume it's some kind of die
> modifier, but could someone point me to a source or just post it?

Again, according to "Guns!Guns!Guns!", it is hard to model recoil in T4's
six-second combat turns (replace DEX with STR for particularly high
recoiling weapons).

> 3) Next time someone prints a book of Vehicles, could we have the Tech
> Level printed in with the rest of the stats, please? For those of us not
> in Milleu 0 (well, even if you are, really) it's kind of handy to know
> the TL. 
> (Ok, not so much a rules question, but I think it's a bit important)

No comment :)

> 4) Has the official revised hardback special gold-plated edition
> actually come out yet? The IG website is out of date on several things,
> and I haven't seen it locally (Dallas/Fort Worth). Every rulebook I've
> found has been the same as mine (even the hardbacks) and I was under the
> impression that the task system was going to change somewhat with the
> revision. Somebody update me!

Mark is still working on the super-duper neato keen replacement for T4--
whose working title is T4.1.  As for the webpage not being updated, that's
another can of worms...



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mono au mono, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:51:45 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: nD+D-D Considered

On Thu, 29 Jan 1998 05:53:19 -0500 (EST), Glenn Grant wrote:

> PROS:
> 
> 1) nD+D-D adds a bit of realism: it means that even a 1D weapon can
> sometimes do up to 11 points damage. And sometimes it will glance off a
> belt buckle or some such, doing no damage. But most of the time, it will
> still do 1 to 6 points damage.
> 
> 2) It's easy enough to remember, whether as nD+D-D, or nD+2D-7.
> 
> I can't think of any other pros.
> 
> CONS:
> 
> 1) nD+D-D adds a bit of realism...and no small amount of unnecessary
> complication. What used to be one roll, added up, becomes one roll, added
> up, then another roll, subtracted. But the results are *usually* within the
> normal range. Extra effort expended for something that usually has no
> effect.

Agreed.  The only time such a weapon will do damage outside its normal
damage range is when the original number of damage dice generate a result
towards either end of the bell curve average *and* the +D-D result
generates an amount that is substantial enough to push the total of the
original damage dice roll beyond the min/max limit.

For example: a 2d6 attack has a min result of 2 and a max result of 12.  If
a 2d6 dice roll generates a total of, say, 5 or 9, only a very severe
result on the +D-D roll (+/- 4 or 5) will shift such a result beyond either
2- or 12+.

> 2) According to the odds table (posted by Richard Flores, IIRC), it means
> that a "hit" with a 1D weapon is about as likely to do no damage at all as
> any other amount from 1 to 6. Hmmmm.

I follow you...

> 3) For a 2D weapon, it means you're *more likely* to do zero points than
> any other value below 5 (IIRC - I no longer have the table for reference).
> The probability curve makes no sense. Why is "no damage" more likely than
> "a little damage", but less likely than "a lot of damage"?

I don't follow you...

> 4) For a high-damage weapon, the effect is barely noticeable. Why bother?

Agreed.

> 5) If you roll to hit and succeed (and your hit penetrates armor), you
> should do damage. Discovering, after you've succeeded in hitting your
> opponant, that you didn't do any damage, would be really annoying:
> 
>    Ref:    "Roll to hit"
>            [Rattle rattle]
>    Player: "Yay!"
>    Ref:    "You hit him! Roll damage."
>            [Rattle rattle]
>    Ref:    "You do... er... no damage."
>    Player: "I don't like this game any more..."

Actually, I *do* like the idea of attacks which succeed in hitting but
which don't do any damage, which makes this point a Pro, IMHO.  I still
wouldn't use the +D-D rule due to all the other Cons, however.

The problem with RPGs is that it is often hard to model attacks that do
extremely small amounts of damage (ie: attacks that do between 0 and 1
point of damage), but which still hit.  Such is life in RPGs, however.

> 6) Grazing blows and critical hits should really be a part of the roll to
> hit. Indeed, critical hits already are, as Spectacular Successes. Grazing
> hits can be much more easily implemented; forex: "Any roll to hit that
> exactly equals the TN is a grazing hit, doing 1D reduced damage." Or some
> such.

ACQ (and EA or 3G3, ICRW) inflicts half the number of damage dice (rounded
up) for grazing hits like you describe.

> 7) T4 already has a rule for intentionally reduced damage and intentional
> extra damage hits, the Aimed Attack for Increased Damage or Decreased
> Damage. Thus, nD+D-D is redundant, if implemented as an option at the
> attacker's discretion (as implied by one of your recent posts. It wasn't
> clear if that's what you intended to imply, though.)

Not *really* redundant, since the +D-D rule reflects pure randomness while
the rules for increased and/or decreased damage are partially based on
character decision to use those rules.

> 8) T4 already has a rule for glancing blows: hit dice are reduced by armor.
> A hit with a 1D or 2D weapon against an opponant with r3 armor will be
> deflected or absorbed. Thus nD+D-D is an attempt to add something that is
> already there in the rules.
> 
> 9) How *does* nD+D-D integrate with reduction of damage due to armor? Not
> very well, IMO. If a 1D weapon hits r1 armor, is the damage entirely
> negated? Or does the attacker still get to roll the extra +D-D? Or:
> consider a PC wearing r1 armor who is hit by a 2D weapon: 1D is absorbed,
> the second die is rolled, but then the +D-D eliminates the damage
> completely; suggesting that this r1 armor absorbed all the damage from a 2D
> weapon! The armor/penetration rules in T4 are, I feel, one of its most
> elegant and sensible features. nD+D-D confuses an otherwise beautifully
> simple system.

This is a problem.  Solving it will no doubtingly require more text devoted
to the +D-D rule, complicating things even more.

> 10) How does nD+D-D integrate with the Blow-Through Rule? Damage from most
> projectile weapons is limited to 3D, the rest is wasted. If you take damage
> from a 3D weapon, can you still take extra damage from the +D-D? Or is it
> wasted?

See above.  The +D-D rule text is becoming burdened down with additional
rules and special exceptions...

> 11) Extra dice to be rolled in a combat system already freighted with too
> many dice.

I couldn't really care how many dice I roll, being a veteran of Champions
and Shadowrun.  I guess it all depends on the number of dice people have
been using in the past.  It *will* raise an issue with those opposed to
more dice, however.

> 12) I use a Hit Location chart, which can result in reduced damage due to
> incidental hits (belt buckles, etc), or increased damage due to internal
> bleeding, etc. So nD+D-D is redundantly reduntant, at least for me.

Correct, "at least for you".  Here's a better "Con #12":

Incorporating a rule that states 'players look at the damage code of the
weapon, and then either add the result of a +D-D roll or +2D-7' may raise
some interesting questions by players not familiar with earlier
incarnations of T4.1.  Questions like: "Well, why didn't they just increase
all of the publicized damage codes by 1 and instruct me to simply roll an
additional D6 and subtract it from the total instead?"

Using +D-D or +2D-7 in conjunction with the currently published weapon
statistics will look like a patch job, rather than a seamless integration.
Because of this, making the rule OPTIONAL will raise far fewer questions as
to why the rule exists.

> Considering all the above, I feel that nD+D-D adds a small amount of
> realism, usually to no noticeable effect, is an unnecessary complication,
> adds features that are already present in the rules, adds extra rolls to
> the combat system for little gain, and does not integrate well with the
> armor/penetration rules.

Agreed.



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mono au mono, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #67
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Thursday, January 29 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 068



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

No, not a jump drive debate again! (was Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive)
Re: Thoughts on jump drives
Re: Canon thoughts
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Optional rules
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Ice and UWP's
Re: Gravity Shields
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:57:16 -0600
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: No, not a jump drive debate again! (was Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive)

<snippity snip snip>

>The author could
>well have intended this to mean that you could use energy from
>both the black globe and jump fuel (and before anyone gets pendantic
>on me, you have to prove that the sentence is worded exactly to
>say what the author intended).


Similarly, you would have to prove that the sentence isn't getting the
author's idea across clearly, or you cannot argue in the negative. (I know
you like the high-throughput theory -- the original question wasn't
intended as a shot, though).

Okay. We could clear this up. Marc's on the list. How do I get ahold of
Frank Chadwick and John Harshman? :-)


>Balance this against other
>references where you use just energy (including the adventure
>where jump drives were charged by solar energy, but that idea
>was ill considered for background consistency reasons).


I am not familiar with these other sources (except, of course, DGP's SoM).
This is, in no small part I am sure, due to my ignorance of many things
Traveller. Of course, we will have to contact the authors of those works
and prove that their sentences are worded correctly too. :-)


>Well, the problem is that you are trying have a drive and retroactively
>come up with reasons why it just happens to use fusion fuel without
>needing it for fusion.  That kind of thing always tends to (IMO at
>least) leave hokey or arbitrary taste in the mouth.


We are trying to come up with a logical explaination for something that
doesn't have any basis in physical reality. It may just be that there is no
good logical answer that will explain all the "facts" and satisfy everyone,
because those "facts" just don't jive.

I agree with your Occam's Razor approach, I just disagree with the
conclusions you have reached. :-)

I am as guilty as the rest of us in partaking of this mental exercise (some
would say masturbation) that is Traveller. That's why I'm here. It's fun.
I'm a self-important bastard that likes to state his opinions to a captive
audience. :-)

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

"This reminds me of my first job, before crash test dummies were popular.
Man, I spent a fortune on asprin." -- Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 14:54:19 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on jump drives

At 03:00 PM 1/29/98 -0600, Andrew Akins wrote:
>I do have a question for those more scientifically bent people - Why can't
>j-drives just burn the fuel in some sort of reaction that generates ENORMOUS
>ammounts of power, but cannot sustain the reaction - thus they would be
>acceptable for punching the hole into jumpspace (we are talking about
>ripping space-time here), but wouldn't be useful as an actual powersource
>except in specific applications.

The easy answer is that such things would have a heck of a lot of
applicability outside jump drives.  Once you know the energy densities of
accumulators, you can quickly figure out the upper bound on the amount of
power that a jump drive can produce, and thus what power plant it seems to
be similar to.  If you use the HG idea that a jump drive is a third
capacitors, then you have an even stricter upper bound.  If the jump drive
is substantially above that upper bound, then it is going to be worth using
them for other applications.

Consider - a spinal mount that uses extreme amounts of power can be fired
by one of these.  It is not that different than a CPC powered laser, save
that the energy amounts are so much bigger.  Even if it only fires once
every few hours, I suspect you still will be ahead putting a dozen of these
in, as opposed to regular power plants, given the tremendous amounts of
energy involved.

As an alternative, why not put it in the bottom of a large heat sink, and
live off the heat for days.  This completely avoids the need for and use
for the regular fusion plants.

>So sure, you could use a jump drive plant to power a weapon or something -
>once, and then wait a while. I woudl say the cool off time would need to be
>days...

Even so, the amount of power they are using has to either be substantially
above that produced by a fusion plant, or it could be replaced by one.
Space may be limited, but if it would let you not have the tremendous
amount of H2 that a conventional one uses, then you would still end up ahead.

>Now, someone wanna tell me how I'm wrong? :)

In spirit, you are quire right, which is why we need a handwave for the H2.
 If the JD is nothing more than a large accumulator bank, a hull grid, and
a sprayer to put the H2 outside the ship, then replacing parts is not worth
the effort.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:49:03 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pen.net>
Subject: Re: Canon thoughts

Merrick Burkhardt wrote:
 
> Sup. 9 Fighting Ships, and Library Data both talk about it (Library
> data has a picture of a very Star Destroyer-like Sylea BB, for
> example. Sup. 9 has a the Tigress, Plankwell, and at least one other BB I think.
 
Ah, that explains it for me then!  I didn't buy Suppliment 9, it came
right as I was "getting a life" and not playing games.  Thankfully that
period only lasted a few years. ;->

> AHL was about 60ktons and was (er, is) a Cruiser.

Sorry I miswrote I didn't mean the AHL, I meant the Kinuur Class
Frontier Cruisers. And now that I think about them, weren't they even
smaller than 10,000 tons? 

Well, anyway my point is that, to me, Traveller doesn't mean really big
ships slugging it out. It means little ships...PC sized ships...in the
100 to 3,000 ton range. More toward the 100 end than the 3,000 end as
well. ;->

Eris

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 13:36:27 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

> >>>>3) Why carry large ammounts of fuel if all you do is burn it to make
a
> >>>>jump.  Why not use Solar Cells to collect the energy from the nearest
> >>>>star, or use another energy storage medium to hold the energy needed.
> >>>As far as I understand "all" of the fuel is not burned to start a
jump. 
> >>>A large quantitiy is used to open the jump field, but that field needs
> >>>to be maintained through the entire jump. 
> >>According to current (T4 and IIRC CT) technobabble, you don't burn any
of
> >>the fuel, it is used to create and maintain the "real-space" "jump
> >>bubble".
> >So when you jump you spray the fuel outside into space around your ship?

> >LOL, what a bloody joke.  Next thing they will tell is that when you use
> >the jump drive the crew & passengers drink the fuel to maintain a "real
> >space" "jump bubble".  If this is the standard for T4, thank god I quit
> >buying after MT was ended.  TNE looked like unrealistic garbage.  T4,
> >sounds like Star Trek.
> As one of the people who kind of likes the idea, I will respond in kind.
> Jeez, you mean they spray oil between the moving parts to keep them from
> failing?  And the oil is used up?  This is a bloody joke....

LOL, I get your point.

> Getting serious again, it is a reasonable hypothesis.  If you have ever
> bothered to work out how much energy you would get from fusing that much
> H2, you would see that it is a tremendous amount - enough that jump drive
> power plants would replace all others if they had even a small fraction
of
> the efficiency of a regular power plant.

Well another thought would be, that the Jump Drive fuse the H2 slowly
rather that at the fast rate of the Powerplant, but if that was true, why
not use the stored energy like I have asked before?

> Perhaps even more telling, a jump is possible with unrefined fuel.  Damn
> few power plants can accept a significant fraction of other chemicals in
> the feedstocks, especially they horrific mix in most gas giants.

Yes, but there is a increased chance of a misjump so the chemicals in
unrefined fuel can cause wonky effects that are not in refined fuel.

> As a result, they are certainly not using the H2 for fuel, and I cannot see
> many other uses for the massive quantities than cooling, ballast, or
> reaction mass.  Given that you have alternative physics going on anyway,
> you can answer it as you like, but it seems more useful to make it either
> JS reaction mass or something that is used to form the fabric of your
> pocket universe, than to assume it is just tossed away for no particular
> reason.

Well, mostly I say that the Jump Drives on a ship need a slow & steady
supply of energy & as such either have to fuse H2 on its own as a safety
feature or have a hook up to the energy capacitors.

> In addition, if you work out the geometry of a universe the size of a ship,
> it is either going to be expanding at tremendous speed, or contracting.
> Since I suspect Traveller ships do not approach the energy density needed
> to keep such a universe open, tossing some mass into the mix might make it
> a lot easier to keep the pocket universe form collapsing to a point.

Maybe, but a few tons will not help that much.  A ship that weighs say
1,000 tons jumps, throwing in say 10 tons will not help that much.  you
must remember that, I think, fuel is part of a ships weight.

> Scott

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 15:38:16 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

> > As to the fixed week long period, that was dropped the minute I thought
> > about this fact.  "A jump-1 ship can go one parsec in one week.  A jump-2
> > ship can travel the same parsec in one week as well.  BS, jump-2 should be
> > faster than jump-1.  So jump-2 ships move twice as fast as a jump-1 ship. 
> > so inorder to move one parsec is should only take 3.5 days."
> Be careful applying logic to fictional constructs.  Hyperspace by
> definition does not conform to our understanding of space so movement
> through hyperspace isn't necessarily going to work like we'd expect.
> You can have ships move at different speeds if you want, but it's no
> more or less logical than having all jumps take one week.

Actually, we do have a theory about hyperspace & how it works & I will be
the first to admit I do not understand it, but, until our TL gets to the
point that we can test it, it reamins just that a theory.  

Now, if you will note, I have only one problem with Traveller.  That is the
jump drive.  While I will admit that it is possible that travel time could
remain constant, I do not think so.  If that were the case, well then why
does it take the same amount of time to go one parsec as it does six?  In
order to suspend my belief system, the fictional construct must make some
basic sense.  Like if a vehicle that does 100 mph can reach a city that is
100 miles away in an hour, and you have a vehicle does 200 mph that goes to
the same place, but it to takes one hour over the same route at a different
time.  Then to me something is wrong.  I do not know why they did this, but
it would seem to me to destroy tactical possibilities.  Like in HG.  You
have a large fleet with an average Jump Drive of say 4, you are under
attack by a fleet that has an average Jump Drive of 3.  You fight a battle
with them & they jump out away from you.  You know they are going to system
X.  You jump to system X.  Well, I think, this is MHO< that you should get
there ahead of that fleet becuase you have more powerful Jump Drives.  But,
under the Canon Version, you will not.

This to me is illogical & the only place in which Traveller falls down.

> Bolie IV

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 15:55:24 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

> > > And given the fuel required, the colony won't be *able* to send the
> > > ship back. 
> > Five Words:  Frontier Refueling & a refinery <sp>.
> Given the expense of sending an STL colony ship I'd guess that the whole
> ship would be used for something.  I also doubt that the colony would
> have much to send back that would need a ship.  What I would expect is
> that some part of the ship would be able to be converted into a huge
> antenna to send messages back and forth.  If nothing else, the colony
> would most likely generate scientific data that would be of interest to
> the homeworld.   They may also wish to send STL data carriers back,
> but these would be as small as possible.

I can see your point, but what I was saying is that you can get the fuel
cheaply & easily, so his point is off the mark. 

As to what a colony would have to much to sendback.  Well not at first, but
say 50 years down the road, yes, the colony & the homeworld might be able
to open limited trading.

As to useing the ship to build a huge antenna, why?  I mean that you could
use it to plate a depression on the colony world itself or, on another
world in the colony system.  Why build when you can modify what is already
there.  I mean a asteroidal<sp> stike forms a great dish for that sort of
thing.

As to the generation of scientific information, now you have hit the head
on the most valuable item in the universe.  Information.  With a new colony
there would new scientic discoveries.  Lets say on this new colony world
you find a form of plant that uses thermal energy instead of light to
create hydrocarbons.  Well think about it.  The heat from a fusion reaction
could be used to create oxygen & food.  What would be the price a goverment
qould pay for this?

> Bolie IV

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:03:08 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

> > As to the fixed week long period, that was dropped the minute I thought
> > about this fact.  "A jump-1 ship can go one parsec in one week.  A
jump-2
> > ship can travel the same parsec in one week as well.  BS, jump-2 should
be
> > faster than jump-1.  So jump-2 ships move twice as fast as a jump-1
ship.
> > so inorder to move one parsec is should only take 3.5 days."
> 
> You are jumping to conclusions here. A jump-2 is not *faster* than a
> jump-1. It just reaches a higher-energy jumpspace dimension. A jump-1
> drive is incapable of reaching the J-2 dimension which "shortens"
> distance *more* than the J-1 dimension.

Maybe,. maybe not.  I just like my idea.  Although this is not to say that
yours doesn't have merit, I just like my idea better.

> There have been many different "handwaves" to explain why the jump time
> is fixed at one week. The fact is though, that that's the way Marc wants
> it, and that's a base assumption upon which much Traveller history and
> background is based.

Well, I do not use the standard history & background.  That of course comes
from me playing CT before the 3rd Imp came along.  But, I can see your
point here.

> If you're running a B5 campaign, by all means, do what you want; just
> don't discard the notion that jump times _can_ be fixed as some sort of
> crazy or illogical idea.

I do not say that, I just say that it does not work for me.  If it works
for you, well please do it your way. ;<)

> Here are a couple brief synopses of pseudo-scientific
> explanations/analogies for the 1 week jump time, the first of which I
> came up with, and the second was another idea someone posted last year
> that I liked:

I kinda of liked them, but while I will not use them but, they do make good
reading & that is the most important thing in a RPG.  If I can say its a
good read, then that means that I understand & like them.
 
> Glenn Hoppe
> 
> PS. I, like others, am offended by your tone and your arrogance. I ask
> that you take the time to consider your words before hitting the "send"
> button. Let's try and keep the courtesy and respect that is (usually)
> present here on the TML.

Well, I have just a few things to say about the Traveller RPG.  It is one
of the best systems (ranks right up there with Palladium), but it does have
one problem.  Jump Drive.

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 17:17:38 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Optional rules

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Marc apparently doesn't like optional rules.  I first came to this =
conclusion when I read the T4 rule book.  I was reading Chapter 16, =
Trade and Commerce (one of my favorite subjects) and ran across a =
section titled Special Rules.  I noticed similar sections in other =
chapters.

The one that caught my attention and convinced me that these were =
optional rules was:  "Required Execution:  Once goods are offered for =
sale and the Actual Value Table is consulted, they must be sold at the =
price indicated.  A sale may be stopped at any point before rolling on =
the Actual Value Table."

How did I know that had to be an optional rule?  Because I would not use =
it even if it were a mandatory rule.  Are you kidding me?  Whoever heard =
of closing a deal before you know how much the buyer is offering?  I =
guess perhaps it might happen occasionally under certain unusual =
circumstances, but all the time and on all trades, I don't think so.  =
Certainly not in my campaign.

Therefore, they must be optional rules.  I would guess that after the =
adamant discussion of late on the list about +D-D, that  will go in the =
Special Rules section in the chapter on Combat.  I guess then everyone =
would be happy (well at least satisfied).


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http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"" size=3D3>Marc apparently doesn't =
like optional=20
rules.&nbsp; I first came to this conclusion when I read the T4 rule =
book.&nbsp;=20
I was reading Chapter 16, <STRONG>Trade and =
</STRONG><STRONG>Commerce</STRONG>=20
(one of my favorite subjects) and ran across a section titled =
<STRONG>Special=20
Rules</STRONG>.&nbsp; I noticed similar sections in other =
chapters.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"" size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The one that caught my attention and convinced me that these were =
optional=20
rules was:&nbsp; &quot;<STRONG>Required Execution:&nbsp;</STRONG> Once =
goods are=20
offered for sale and the Actual Value Table is consulted, they must be =
sold at=20
the price indicated.&nbsp; A sale may be stopped at any point before =
rolling on=20
the Actual Value Table.&quot;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>How did I know that had to be an optional rule?&nbsp; Because I =
would not=20
use it even if it were a mandatory rule.&nbsp; Are you kidding me?&nbsp; =
Whoever=20
heard of closing a deal before you know how much the buyer is =
offering?&nbsp; I=20
guess perhaps it might happen occasionally under certain unusual =
circumstances,=20
but all the time and on all trades, I don't think so.&nbsp; Certainly =
not in my=20
campaign.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Therefore, they must be optional rules.&nbsp; I would guess that =
after the=20
adamant discussion of late on the list about +D-D, that&nbsp; will go in =
the=20
<STRONG>Special Rules </STRONG>section in the chapter on=20
<STRONG>Combat</STRONG>.&nbsp; I guess then everyone would be happy =
(well at=20
least satisfied).</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 18:25:05 -0500 (EST)
From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Hello Folks,
  Regards to the jump bubble theory and such...

  One thought that crosses my mind (I haven't kept up with thead, so I
apologize if I am going over ground covered) isn't so much the problem of
using "dirty" fuels per se, as it is the effect that specific contaminants
intrude into the "Bubble" itself.

  The computer has to take into account all "known" variables (whatever
those might be) and account for them before translating into the jump
space.  Perhaps another reason why the "bubble" theory works so well is
that contaminants alter the bubble in unpredictable ways.  Consequently,
the misjump can occur, but the "program" generally is correct enough for
it to work despite the impurities - until the one day the computer is off
by .0001 significant figures somewhere, which causes the final calculation
to be way off in light of the "impurities" unpredictability.

  Also, what I'd like to see with respect to misjumps?  A removal of the
concept that it can throw you off by up to 6 times the maximum jump
distance possible (ie 36 parsecs).  To my way of thinking, if it can be
acomplished accidentally, it should be reproducable deliberately.
Somewhere in the CT universe, it is implied that Man can achieve a Jump 36
using only a JUMP 1 configuration!  
  To "clean" this up, perhaps other alternatives should be sought for
means of adding "spice" for the unpredictability of a misjump.

Possibilities:
Total destruction
Jump sickness
Damage to components
  a) powerplant
  b) sensors
  c) jump drive
  d) hull structure
sanity checks
Time duration in jumpspace is *longer* than 168 hours.

  In all, the above mentioned seem more reasonable than being "warped" out
in a manner the implies that there are more "undiscovered" physics behind
the jump universe.  To be honest with you all, I wonder why, in 1,000
years, no one has bent their scientists to the realization that if a jump
1 ship can jump 36 parsecs on 10% fuel, using the drive configuration of
jump 1 - to the idea of making it a reality?

  Well, enough on that.  Each GM can run their world as they see fit
<grin>.  If it ever comes to a vote regarding the "best theory" for
jumpdrives, I would like to vote for the "bubble theory" - thus qualifying
me for the name "bubble head" <Grin>.  One futher proviso however: the
hydrogen used to create the bubble must exit from hyperspace along with
the ship - otherwise, our universe will be losing mass every time someone
jumps - thus seemingly violating the LAW: convservation of energy...

   Hal

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:13:56 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Ice and UWP's

> If you have an ice covered world, does it's hydrosphere
> get a 0 or an A in the UWP?

I would hazard a guess that the hydrosphere datum is for free standing
water so it would have to be 0, but if it is for all forms of water on a
planet then A.  Maybe a new level should be created for the hydrosphere
datum called B, Ice Covered.  But that is IMHO.

> summers@alum.mit.edu

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:18:50 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Gravity Shields

> > I was wondering, in high enough tech level, could a ship use layers of
> > gravity as shields?  Would these waves of gravity be able to bend the
> > trajectories of beam weapons and missles away from the ship?  what
> > limitations would there be?  And how would this effect the ship in
> > question?
> 
> Ooohhh...this _is_ interesting...if we have grav-FOCUSED lasers, what
> about grav-UNFOCUSED ones?
> 
> One immediate problem I see is the scale you'll need...the handwave over
> grav-focussing is that very high strength grav plates are used to bend the
> laser into a long range focus. You would need astonishingly high grav
> fields rather close to your ship to bend incoming lasers away. These
> fields will also play havoc with your own sensors and weapons.

Depending on the TL of the ship it is on.  That plus what type of shielding
you are using.

> Hmmmm...it begins to sound like a functional description of Black Globe
> technology to me.

In part, but don't Black Globes attract weapons fire & this would deflect
weapons fire.

> Bruce Johnson

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:10:17 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

> > Later, under "The Black Globe" (pg. 43) it states:
> > "If a ship absorbs enough energy to make a jump, and is supplied with
> > sufficient fuel, it may jump at the end of the turn."
> > Of course, this brings up that whole "what is the jump fuel for,
anyway?"
> > question again. If you have the fuel but not the energy to initiate the
> > jump, then you can't jump. It seems to cotradict the high-throughput
> > reactor theory, for instance.
> One of the big problem on this list is the habit of taking a single
> sentence and trying to read to much into it.  The author could
> well have intended this to mean that you could use energy from
> both the black globe and jump fuel (and before anyone gets pendantic
> on me, you have to prove that the sentence is worded exactly to
> say what the author intended).  Balance this against other
> references where you use just energy (including the adventure
> where jump drives were charged by solar energy, but that idea
> was ill considered for background consistency reasons).

Aye, this is the rub.  We have canon sources saying one thing & another
canon source saying another.  Here we have a collection of people with
differant backgrounds & experiences.  Myself, I am a Network Administrator
& as such wanted to comment on the Computers in Traveller Thread, but got
drawn into the thread about the low-tech colony ship.  What we have to do
is work together to explain the things in Traveller that do not make sense
to one to that person.  Like, for me the Jump Drive.

> > I don't like the "it's used to maintain the
> > jump bubble" idea, either.
> Well, the problem is that you are trying have a drive and retroactively
> come up with reasons why it just happens to use fusion fuel without
> needing it for fusion.  That kind of thing always tends to (IMO at
> least) leave hokey or arbitrary taste in the mouth.

Same here, but at least we are trying to get rid of that hokey taste by
trying to understand why if makes that hokey taste.  Or did that come out
all wrong.

>  summers@alum.mit.edu

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:29:46 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

> >> According to current (T4 and IIRC CT) technobabble, you don't burn any
of
> >> the fuel, it is used to create and maintain the "real-space" "jump
> >bubble".
> >So when you jump you spray the fuel outside into space around your ship?
> >LOL, what a bloody joke.  Next thing they will tell is that when you use
> >the jump drive the crew & passengers drink the fuel to maintain a "real
> >space" "jump bubble".  If this is the standard for T4, thank god I quit
> >buying after MT was ended.  TNE looked like unrealistic garbage.  T4,
> >sounds like Star Trek.
>     
>     Whoah there partner.  Them be fighting words.  "Unrealistic garbage?"

My bad, I'm sorry.  But, to me it looked IMHO unrealistic.  Mostly because
they took out the 3rd Imp.  I really like the 3rd Imp.  That, plus the fact
that Traveller is one of the best Hard SF games out there.  The whole Virus
thingy was the real kicker for me into the unrealistic garbage realm.

> Normally, I could take extreme umbridge w/ that.  If fact, i do. : ) 

Good, I glad you got an umbridge out of it.  Although, I did need the
umbridge you took from me.  Its going to rain this weekend.  ;<)

> <retort about the realism of MT snipped for the sake of tact>

Hey, its not perfect, but it works for me.

>     TNE was the giant leap towards realism.  FF&S (the True and Original) was
> the foundation of the entire line.  The only version of Traveller that had a
> consistent approach to its technology from the beginning.  CT took how long to
> get all of the rules out?  MT has stuff (most highly user unfriendly) strewn
> through numerous supplements (COACC, Refs Companion, the basic) and T4 well...
> 'nuff said. 

Well, I like MT & have all the books & can generally make it up as I go
along.

>      Hmm... drinking J fuel.  Quick! How many calories in hydrogen?  

None.  It would evaparate before it hits your mouth.

> >that I
> >> don't know about?  Or, has Bab5 invaded the TML?
> >
> >Babylon 5 has invaded the TML in the form of me.  I like Babylon 5, you got
> >a problem with that?
> >
> >As for a book or supplement that you don't know about, well I had the
> >thought of placing jump gates into Traveller ever since I bought CT 0, 1,
> >2, & 3, & thought, "Well if a jump drive weighs so much & uses so much fuel
> >why not use controlled wormholes?", but we will not get into my background.
> Well my answer would be... if they've been lugging around these heavy and fuel
> hungry jump drives for like 10000 years now in basically the same form, they
> must be necessary.  

Depends on when you set the game & what new discoveries are made.

> >Legate
> >legate@futureone.com
> 
> >"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
> >severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."
> 
> "I know his name"

Not you too.  That is the most common reply I have gotten from this ML,
other than Flames because I dared to go against canon.  Heck, I was even
called a Heritic <sp> by a lurker on the list.

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #68
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Thursday, January 29 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 069



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Initial colonization considerations
Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator
Jump Gates
Re: A FF&S Question
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Mea Culpa and Cyberware
A few Digests of Replies...
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: missiles, low berths, and other canon...
Re: Rules Questions
Re: Thoughts on jump drives
Re: Battleriders v. Battleships
Re: Canon thoughts
Re: Canon thoughts
Re: Another Thoughts on Jump
Re: No, not a jump drive debate again! (was Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 15:42:33 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

> Because capacitors can be used to hold _some_ energy indefinately does
> mean they can hold the energy density needed to exceed what you get
> from fusing a certain amount of hydrogen.

As one can probably guess, that should be "does _not_ mean"....
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:51:41 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Initial colonization considerations

> > Just a few thoughts here about High Population worlders going to a
colony
> > world.  What would be the psychological impact to them?  What I mean is
> > that the people on the home world would think "Thank god, something is
> > being done about the problem."  But, with people raised in a dense
> > population situation would this not cause some problems with them working
> > together, i.e. not trust, thinking the other person is going to stab them
> > in the back.  By High Population, I mean in the tens of billions, not what
> > we have now.
> A more real problem with such a venture, would be the psychological
> reaction of the colonists to suddenly being 'alone' on a world; after all
> moving from, say, Hong Kong to a Pop 200 town in Montana is going to be a
> _serious_ adjustment, even if they all still spoke Chinese.

That is what I was thinking about.

> Bu, I suppose you could select for that, unless you're just scooping
> people off the street, and shooting them off to the stars, which is a
> different kettle of fish entirely.

Not really.  As my DI once told us:  "Training is one thing.  Combat is
another.  We can only train you here for combat & give you a chance to
survive it.  But, everything comes down to the real deal in combat.  Its
kill or be killed.  Unlike training where it is pass or fail.  You will
survive a fail, but you will not survive death."

> Bruce Johnson

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 18:04:12 -0600
From: "Linda Baxter" <Baxter@midusa.net>
Subject: Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator

> 
> DOS compatible and Win95 compatible are not the same thing. Making it DOS
> compatible just cripples it. Make it Win95 compatible.,
> 
> Marc Miller  

  I agree whole heartedly!  Most people do not realize how hard it gets to use
some of the programs created for dos on Win95.  :-)
  Thanks, Marc, for bringing this up.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 17:01:10 -0700
From: scharlto@ifsna.com
Subject: Jump Gates

How odd this subject came up; I was going through some old Traveller notes
I had from my current campaign, and I had an alien race out to spinward of
the Marches (about 2 sectors out) that used a network of Jump Gates in
their little 10-world empire.  Only the government was allowed to own a
jump drive with the full energizing functionality; merchants had a stripped
down drive that got its power from the gate, and away it went.

At the time, the idea about using jump fuel as displacement matter in jump
had not occurred to me; I thought it was strictly for a quick energy boost
from a jump-specifc power plant.

Of course, at a certain point I part ways with canon anyway, so its just
one more difference between my game and "vanilla" Traveller.

Steve Charlton

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:51:40 -0700
From: scharlto@ifsna.com
Subject: Re: A FF&S Question

Yes.  Specifically, the M-1, the M-60, the M-113 and some other NATO and
WarPac AFVs.  This was done as part of the FFS2 playtest effort.  Some of
the results showed up in Emperor's Vehicles.

As to how they compared to real-worl objects: Without the combat rules. it
was a tad difficult to tell.  It looked like the weights were OK, but the
armor values (assuming actual armor thickness) seemed rather low.  Alos,
there were some challenges in the engine area; the power plants sized a
little big, and ended up a little too fuel-thirsty.

I will say that most of the differences were within my own personal
fudge-factor of 10%, however.  I am probably a gearhead heretic, but I
allow for a certain level of slop in vehicle designs.  For non-starships,
this slop is 10%.  For starships, this slop is a percentage equal to the
Naval Architect skill of he designer, or 5% if I am doing it up as a
"standard" design.

From: "Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net>
> Has anyone tried to create real-world designs using FF&S? Like a F-16
fighter?
> Or a M-1 battle tank? Or a AH-64 gunship?

Steven Charlton

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:13:47 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:38:28 -0600, Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

> > Well, this is not clear.  But that has been debated before.
> 
> It has seemed pretty clear to me, in the previous debates.

Of course I wasn't refering to just you.  Since there
was divided opinion on the matter, I feel safe in calling
the point generally "unclear".
 
> That's actually, a reasonable theory. Still doesn't sit well to me,
> however. How does the energy get channelled into jumpspace? What kind of
> current-carrier can withstand such energies? Why can't such a process be
> used for weapons of mass destruction? How does a fusion reactor melt
> down, anyway? Why is the amount of fuel dependant upon the *volume* of
> the ship?

> You'll have to come up with arbitrary answers to those questions.

Well, first of all, much of this is more detail than other approaches.
I've seen nothing (for the "jump gas bubble theory") that answers 
similar question about how the hydrogen gets put into jump space
or what holds it around the ship.

Also, this level of detail is getting down into a detailed
explination of how the drive works, which (since it is
impossible to do in current physics) is something that
the suspension of disbelief handles. The difference here
is that we have general ideas that hand together (you
use hydrogen because it is fusion and you can stick
a lot of energy in because the same effect that needs
a lot of energy allows it).  This is better (to me at
least) than trying to stick on theory into the requirements
for another.  In any case, even if we want to quibble
about this, one isn't any further along than one is
with other theories and you still have the fact that you are 
making a new theory try and fit an additional set of arbitrary
restirction so it can work like the old one.

However, even is we accept that a more stringent requirement for
this approach, we can, since we are being consistent all along,
have some hope to extrapolate.  For example, since supplying
energy to the lanthanum grid is the key to jump, the energy
gets channeled along the grid.  The kind of current carrier
that can withstand these energies is a Lanthanum grid that
is anchored in jump space (though it may be that any metal
anchored in jump space can withstand them, but only 
Lanthanum gets you there).  Of course it can be used
for weapons of mass destruction, it is fusion power
which is already known to produce the hydrogen bomb, but
that is nothing new.  The reason a normal fusion reactor
melts down is that you can't contain that much energy
and you can't channel it unless you have a huge sink
to throw it into (ie the Lanthanum grid anchored in
jump space).  The reason the amount of fuel depends on
volume is presumably the same reason it did under the
old theory (presumably because how much you can push
back jump space depends, in part, on huch energy you
put into it).

> I'll argue from the other angle, then. If fusion power plants can run
> with a minimal amount of impurities (a reasonable assumption, imho) then
> why are there misjump rules that specifically take into account risks in
> using unrefined rules -- *fuel*, I mean?

I would way that its because, for game purposes, having your maneuver 
drive hiccup doesn't really matter, esp. when compared to dying
in a misjump.

> Note: I'm only arguing the point to try and illustrate that no matter
> how you justify Jump Drive fuel, arbitrary decisions will be made, and
> arbitrary handwaves will be needed to justify them.

Right, that is why I contend that they need to be kept to a
minimum and why it is better to make one arbitrary change
to how power is tranfered than to make a similar change
to the entire jump theory.  It can't help but fit better
with the background and be more consistent with cannon.

> The Jump Bubble/Jump
> Ballast theory is as reasonable to me as a high-capacity fusion
> reaction. And it fits the rules better, to boot.

Clearly we don't agree on this point.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:17:10 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Mea Culpa and Cyberware

Ian or Katts wrote:

> Bloo wrote :
> >
> >WRT implants, given the fascination of some with bionic and cybernetic
> implants,
> >replacements, prosthetics etc., I'm kind of suprised we haven't seen a
> supplement
> >along these lines, indexed by TL.  After all, if we can use artificial
> hearts to
> >day, what about TL 12?  State of the art prosthetic hands give temperature
> and
> >pressure sensors.  When can I get my superdense-alloy skeleton with requiste
> >retractable claws?  :-)
> >
> >Bloo
> >
>
> The short answer is "Traveller doesnt do cyberware".
>
> The longer answer is that the presence of such things in members of society
> helped the fractionation of humaniti during the Rule of Man, and is
> therefore avoided by all right-thinking people, and discouraged by all
> right-thinking governments. Anyway, most to all the neccessary knowledges
> and technologies was lost during the Long Night.
>
> The 3rd Imperium is therefore down 2 TLs in cyberware, and it has strong
> social and political restrictions on it's use.
>
> The Solomani have fewer scruples, however. But rest assured SolSec will be
> keeping careful records on any privately-owned implants.
>
> Ian Whitchurch

  Is this canon taken from some sources or your own opinions?  No offense, but
all I have is T4 materials to go on.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:00:04 +0000
From: Andy Lilly <a.s.lilly@nortel.co.uk>
Subject: A few Digests of Replies...

LIAISON

s.johnson107@genie.geis.com asked if Liaison skill is back in T4.1?

At the time of writing PE, either we at CORE had a very rough draft of the
T4.1 skill list (and Liaison was in it) or we queried it with Tim and/or
Marc and it was confirmed it would be added to T4.1. I'm afraid it's too
far back for me to recall!

SMELLS AND THE VARGR

Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net> said, Re: Quoting, and the Vargr
>Please continue this thread, I am finding most interesting and enlightening.

Don't have too many bright ideas or I'll start having to thrash myself with
twigs for not having thought of them for the Aliens book! :-)

>I am trying to do the Roth Thokken as subrace of Vargr. Scents would even
>mean more to the Roth due thier being born blind.

FYI, these subraces are less well known in M0 times than in the MT/DGP
Alien book, so you've got a pretty free hand!

VARGR GOOD TASTE

Eric Nolan mentioned:
>On the lower strata of society, flashy Vargr may consider a
>gold lame jacket with hologramatic designer slogans emblazoned
>in mood sensitive colours to be the height of good taste and an
>excellent advertisement for their oppulence.  At the other end
>of the spectra the subtle, scent marked jacket with a suave
>custom made fit may be the thing to be seen in...

Most importantly, as Marc himself keeps saying, don't judge alien races by
our own standards. What we consider 'flashy' (gold lame et al) may barely
register in the average Vargr subconscious, whereas (please, I'm not trying
to be funny or offensive here...) the body and mouth odours associated with
some humans (and barely frowned upon in some human circles) could be
considered the most extreme bad (or good?) taste... in summary, any alien
species provides an opportunity to turn your players' concepts on their
head (anything to get away from the "person in furry suit" syndrome).

KEEPING CANON

aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton) asked Marc Miller:

>> It is canon breaking, and it shouldn't be. The problem is not seeing
>> manuscripts before hand, and not having a discussion with the writers of
those
>> manuscripts about reassurances that canon won;t be broken. A writer of
>> anything Traveller has a responsibility to know what is canon, and if
writing
>> something that violates that, to discuss it (and get a yes or no) before
it is
>> printed.
>Agreed 100%. The question is, how are you going to make sure this happens?
IG 
>have made it very clear they neither know nor care about canon.

(1) Some writers brought in to write T4 stuff (even quite recently) don't
have a Traveller background and this can be seen clearly in their writing.
Trying to get them to keep to canon is clearly impossible.
(2) All writing for IG by CORE has tried to keep to canon wherever possible.
(3) However, all previous IG products have been written to such short
timescales that canon checking between writers was limited, and any further
canon checking was up to IG, i.e. we handed them our version of the
manuscript and it supposedly got edited (in the way that, IIRC, M0 *didn't*
for example). Early on, the understanding was that work would be provided
to IG and they would check things out with Marc in the final editing.
(4) Despite (2), and perhaps because of (3), some non-canonical data may
have squeezed its way into things like M0 (text only! We take no
responsibility for the sector data!), PE, etc.

WORLD BUILDER'S SOFTWARE

"Christopher E. Webb" <cwebb@ctos.com> was asking about interest in
software for this topic.

FYI, if you want a 'canon' Traveller world planet generator then the T4
World Designer's Handbook which I'm working on at the moment will be
updating the MT and TNE systems. However, progress on this work may be
deferred if IG don't think seriously about coughing up the quite
considerable writers fees owed to me (and quite a few others).

Don't panic - the updates won't change any major 'canon', simply add some
new concepts and update things for our current (still rather limited)
understanding of the universe.

HABITABLE WORLDS

Hal then asked about the problem of having habitable worlds around M class
stars, etc.
>If that is the case - that such planets cannot have breathable
>atmospheres unless an attempt is made to terraform it, should all planets
>that are not possible to be inside a "habitability" zone be considered
>exotic?  That being the case, should there not also be a new trade
>classification for frozen worlds or exotic atmospheres or should planets be
>equated with "barren" or "airless" worlds?

The T4 WDH will (hopefully) make it a bit clearer which worlds around any
sun (whatever their 'apparent' UWP) will actually be habitable. The UWP has
many inherent limitations in what it can portray...

COPYRIGHT

>In most publishing, if a company buys "all rights", they *pay* for it, 
>through the bleeding nose. This is because, literally, the author has *no*
>rights to an article once it is turned in (note that this does *not* 
>necessarily mean that he cannot use the ideas again, or the research, but 
>it had better be in a *very* different article).

Ever seen an IG contract? I believe one is required to sign in your own
blood and donate one major organ for the honour of signing over all rights
to everything. And I'm assured (from other friends who write for the RPG
industry) that IG do not "*pay* for it", i.e. their fees are hardly
extravagant. :-)

More comments tomorrow as I desperately try to catch up...

Andy

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:22:47 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:39:17 -0600, Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
> > Well, the problem is that you are trying have a drive and retroactively
> > come up with reasons why it just happens to use fusion fuel without
> > needing it for fusion.  That kind of thing always tends to (IMO at
> > least) leave hokey or arbitrary taste in the mouth.
 
> Well, Hydrogen has zillions of other uses besides being a fusion fuel.
> After all, it is the simplest, most abundant element in the universe. I
> don't feel the jump bubble theory is arbitrary or hokey.

The point is that the reason you want to do thing like  go to a gas 
giant to get hydrogen are clear if it's fusion.  It it's mass you
want to jump into jump space, you suddenly need arbitrary reasons
why it has to be hydrogen and not some material that, for example,
take up less storage space.

> What feels arbitrary to me is the theory that Jump Drives are capable of
> generating a huge amount of energy in an impossibly short amount of time
> by consuming vast amounts of fuel. Yet, strangely, this process cannot
> be used in "regular" energy production. How can that paradox be
> reconciled?

The idea that an effect that requires a large amount of energy
also means that it makes it easier to put a lot of energy
into it fits with our experience with nature (from equal
and opposite reactions to the microscopic reversibility of
physical processes).  The fact that you have to put energy
into a huge sink to get things to happen means that you
also have a huge sink to put energy into without melting
yourself down.  To me this makes the point a lot more
intuitive than arbitrarily fitting a theory to predetermined
requirements.
 
> I guess everyone has their point of view when it comes to
> believability...

Clearly.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 18:23:10 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: missiles, low berths, and other canon...

Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no> wrote:


>On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Richard A. Flores wrote:
>
>> Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no> wrote:
>>
>> >I think that the word canon is an abomnation that promtly should be put
to
>> >death. ...
>>
>> Some of us like canon.
>
>Yes, but some of use don't :-) My point was that after twenty years the
>game is bound to change because the writers of the new material dosn't
>have the capabilities to have a complete overview of everything that has
>been published before. So they make the rules the way that is logical to
>them.
>
>> >The four versions of Traveller ar in my view four different set of
>> >rules for a science fiction game with a common theme. The storyline is
>> >IMHO not dependent on the use of KKM, HEPlaR, Thruster Plates,
>> >Plasma/Fusion Guns, Laser. ...
>>
>> In some cases your humble opion is wrong.  In some cases the storyline
>> cannot be carried without [insert canon element of your choice]!  Those
guys
>> who like to fight in close are a good example.
>
>How can my opinion be wrong? All you have to do is make up some handwave
>that gives this race the ability to fight down and dirty. I didn't say
>that the way it is in T4 is the ONLY way, I tried to convey that maybe we
>should see it from a writers point of view and not only from the fan point
>of view.

How can I answer this without sounding worse?  Ok, let's try this.
[snip of abortive attempt]
Actually now that I rethink your statement of opinion, I realize that it is
not a statement of fact (as I originally interpreted).  I can think of no
excuse for my above statement, so instead of making an excuse, I shall ask
you to forgive me for making it.

>> >The few things that is needed to conserve the
>> >storyline (Jump being one) has been keept. If you want the CT flauver on
>> >your Traveller use CT, you want MT use MT, and so on.
>>
>> So what if I can't find (or afford) CT, MT, ETC, any more?
>
>Then either you fight like you do now to change Traveller into what you
>want it to be, or you buy some game that is more in line with your views
>on how a sci-fi game should be. I have no problem with that. I was trying
>to put forth my opinion on way these technological devices had been left
>out.
>
>> Your post made me sore.  You didn't sound very humble.  You sounded
snotty!
>> Like your opinion is the only one that matters.  Maybe I'm reading more
than
>> what was there, but...  Maybe I should just shut up.
>
>I in no way intended to imply that my view was the only one correct. ...

I now realize that.  I was being oversensitive.

>I simply wanted to state what I say as the writers position, to somewhat be
>their voice in the discussion. If I sounded snotty, I apologize. ...

The key word in my statement and your reply is "sounded".  Funny isn't it,
I wrote that word and so did you.  There was no sound involved in the
process.  I need to be more careful of what I hear.  I accept your apology
and promise to be more careful in the future.

>It might be that my limited vocabulary sometimes comes in the way of
>what I want to say. English is my secondary language.

A lack of vocabulary is a limitation that we all suffer from from time to
time.  Working in a secondary language would make this even harder.  BTW,
you use the English language quite well.

>Tommy Grav                  tommy.grav@astro.uio.no
>Institute of Astrophysics   http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/
>University in Oslo          "If you value your lives, be somwhere
>Norway                       else!" - Ambassador Delenn B5

I did not snip your signature line so that I would be reminded that Tommy
Grav is in Oslo Norway, and his proper use (or accidental misuse) of
language should not be allowed to keep me from seeing the meaning behind the
words.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:19:43 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Rules Questions

In a message dated 98-01-29 12:27:08 EST, you write:

<< Somebody update me! >>

T4.1 has not come out. The task system is available as a file if you email a
request to FarFuture@Aol.com (includes Tasks, Skills).

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:49:45 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on jump drives

Thu, 29 Jan 1998 14:54:19 -0800, Scott Ellsworth
<Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
[Just for perspective.  I hope not to get involved in this part of
the debate again....]
[High througput reactor.]
> Consider - a spinal mount that uses extreme amounts of power can be fired
> by one of these.  It is not that different than a CPC powered laser, save
> that the energy amounts are so much bigger.  Even if it only fires once
> every few hours, I suspect you still will be ahead putting a dozen of these
> in, as opposed to regular power plants, given the tremendous amounts of
> energy involved.

I'm nmot sure about that.  You take the fuel, powerplant space, and
space for a weapon that can only be fired once an hour, and I would
say you are going to be alot better off putting in more weapons t
hat you can fire whenever you want.

Unless ships can afford to carry extra weapons for occaisonal
special shots, you aren't going to be that interested.

> As an alternative, why not put it in the bottom of a large heat sink, and
> live off the heat for days.  This completely avoids the need for and use
> for the regular fusion plants.

It's not as simple as that.  We are talking enough energy to
turn a heat sink into plasma (unless of course it's very large,
but then you have to haul it around).
_____________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 17:56:17 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Battleriders v. Battleships

 
> --------> All this is very interesting, but in CT (High Guard) and MT
> also, the Spinal Mounts did the real damage, even with heavy screens and
> armor, and many times getting the first shot made the difference. Once
> either is large enough to carry the maximum size gun, the secondary
> batteries become quite a bit less important. From a strategic point of
> view, I would rather have fewer ships which could jump in variable sized
> squadrons(assuming BB's are more expensive), rather than more ships
> concentrated into groups (BR's) which I see as less flexible. Again, I
> can see reasons for both, and I imagine you would see both in the
> Imperial Navy. BR's would be better as attrition units, as it's cheaper
> to replace the ships (theoretically anyway) without a Jump drive
> -assuming you don't lose the tender. They also make good
> easily-repositioned defensive units if you know an attack may be coming.

This relates to my original point---that what we know from
descriptive canon differs from what HG/MT produce. You are right, in
HG/MT a spinal hit is a kill, period (if the gun is big enough). A
factor T MG was ~5000dtons as I recall, so I think the smallest TL15
ship you could get one into was around 15,000 tons. 

A third stratagy to what you suggest above (using HG as canon, not
published ships/library data/etc.) would be to have numerous small
jump capable ships with big spinal guns. On hit with one is a kill,
even on a BB, so the best idea is to have more guns on more ships.
He kills 8 ships with his BatRon, but you have enough 15,000ton guys
to lose the 8, and kill the whole BatRon.

But since we know the historical debate was about BRs vs. BBs, not
BRs, BBs, or BCs (Battle Cruisers), we can assume the rules for
making ships that produced such results were in error. At least that
is how I look at it. I guess you could keep HG, but come up with
some wierd political reson for all the navies to use inferior
designs (which is also interesting...).

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 18:10:36 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Canon thoughts

 
> Sorry I miswrote I didn't mean the AHL, I meant the Kinuur Class
> Frontier Cruisers. And now that I think about them, weren't they even
> smaller than 10,000 tons? 
 
It is 1250 dtons. A (small!) Destroyer, Corvette might be a better
word.

> Well, anyway my point is that, to me, Traveller doesn't mean really big
> ships slugging it out. It means little ships...PC sized ships...in the
> 100 to 3,000 ton range. More toward the 100 end than the 3,000 end as
> well. ;->

For players, usually, yes. We always liked the idea that when the
Navy showed up you really noticed. A BatRon of Tigress BBs is parked
around the spaceside starport for liberty when your Far Trader shows
up. You are vectored through their (very loose) group and marvel at
the size of them, hell, they make the bloody *starport* look small!

I've had military characters that were still in the Navy, but I was
assigned as a gig pilot on a Gazelle (the Dik dik), then after it
was wreaked the crew was split up and I was reassigned to a
Destroyer (the Cortez). We wanted the ships smaller for the scale it
gives you in the scheme of things. I hitched a ride on an AHL, though
which was interesting :-)

That said, Huge ships are canon IMHO, and I treat the Colonial
"Cruiser" and other wierd little toy navy ships as abberations.
Smaller ships will be more normal at lower TLs, however.

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 01:23 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Canon thoughts

Moin SD Mooney,

> But then again, how big is a heretic displacement tonne? ;-)

	either	3m*3m*3m=2dt
	or	2m*2m*7m=2dt
	or	1dt is volume of LHy at pressure X and temperature Y.

	or	deck plan should match the stats within 10%

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 00:37 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Another Thoughts on Jump

Moin Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing,

> So, entering jump, our computer tells us that we have 8 days. After 4 days
> it may say 3 days remaining. When it get down to the final few hours it's
> pretty accurate.

	This is also a way I'm thinking about. A second thing to be considered
	is the "canon" sycron jump necessary for fleet operations, like in
	"Knight Fall". So it must be posible to calculate jump for other
	ships, so that a complete fleet can exit in the same turn, just
	make some meson communications, course adjustments towards a GG
	and raise their black globes for drift.

	This exchange of jump syncronisation was one of the main path of
	infection in the wilds, where ships prefered to disable transponder.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:41:44 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: No, not a jump drive debate again! (was Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive)

Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:57:16 -0600, yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R.
Dietrich)

Subject: No, not a jump drive debate again! (was Re: Thoughts on Jump
Drive)
(At least it isn't the piracy debate.  You notice I managed to duck
the last time it reared up in spite of the dumb things that got
said...  :-)

> >The author could
> >well have intended this to mean that you could use energy from
> >both the black globe and jump fuel (and before anyone gets pendantic
> >on me, you have to prove that the sentence is worded exactly to
> >say what the author intended).
 
> Similarly, you would have to prove that the sentence isn't getting the
> author's idea across clearly, or you cannot argue in the negative.

Which is why I envoke the general treatement of jump drive in CT
and MT in including discussion of jump space intruding in due
to holes in the jump field, other examples of using just energy,
the connnection to a Lanthanum grid, etc.

> We are trying to come up with a logical explaination for something that
> doesn't have any basis in physical reality. It may just be that there is no
> good logical answer that will explain all the "facts" and satisfy everyone,
> because those "facts" just don't jive.

True.  But we are also trying to fit with previous background.  If
you were tring to come up with an entirely new theory and didn't
mind all that old stuff about lanthanum being critical, etc.
then I would have no objections.  The jump bubble theory is
OK on it's own, but I think it is better to teak the old theory
than try and shoehorn a new into the canon requirement established
for the old theory.

> I agree with your Occam's Razor approach, I just disagree with the
> conclusions you have reached. :-)

It actually wasn't Occam's Razor, it was "KISS" (the design 
principal of "Keep It Simple Stupid") which may be related :-)

> I am as guilty as the rest of us in partaking of this mental exercise (some
> would say masturbation) that is Traveller. That's why I'm here. It's fun.
> I'm a self-important bastard that likes to state his opinions to a captive
> audience. :-)

Well, yes.  That is trap.  Coming up with new theories is fun and
it is fun to tack things onto a background.  But, once the fun is
over the background is now weighted down with those new things 
become annoying as they loose their newness and their problems
that weren't anticipated, or didn't seem so important when you
were having fun, are still there.  This is a mistake that has
been made even in some published adventures.  (And that is why 
I am such a party pooper when it comes to things like jump torps :-)
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #69
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Friday, January 30 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 070



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Ice and UWP's
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Software for trav?
Cyberware, Jump and Battle Rider and Required Execution
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Canon thoughts
Re: Canon thoughts
Battleship vs Battlerider
Re: Gravity Shields
Re: Battleriders v. Battleships
Re: No, not a jump drive debate again! (was Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive)
Conservation of energy (was Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive)
Re: PBEM Task Resolution
Jump Drive / Space / Time
Re: Another Thoughts on Jump
Jump Drive Matter Issue
Re: Wounds and Healing
Sorry state of affairs ...
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:39:21 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Thoughts on Jump Drive

<snippo>
>> >space" "jump bubble".  If this is the standard for T4, thank god I quit
>> >buying after MT was ended.  TNE looked like unrealistic garbage.  T4,
>> >sounds like Star Trek.
>>
>>     Whoah there partner.  Them be fighting words.  "Unrealistic garbage?"
>
>My bad, I'm sorry.  But, to me it looked IMHO unrealistic.  Mostly because
>they took out the 3rd Imp.  I really like the 3rd Imp.  That, plus the fact
>that Traveller is one of the best Hard SF games out there.  The whole Virus
>thingy was the real kicker for me into the unrealistic garbage realm.

Well w/ all due respect to you and your expertise at being a network
administrator,  I don't think you or anyone else (save perhaps Nostradamus)
has any clue in hell what a computer is going to be like in the 57th century.
If u had been trained in the early 80s w/  no follow ups, u probably wouldn't
know what the hell was going on now much less in 3700 plus years.  It's my
understanding Virus was meant as a metaphor for technology beyond our current
understanding.  They chose to be explicit concerning the computer architecture
and were thus able to utilize Signal GK among other things. 

>> Normally, I could take extreme umbridge w/ that.  If fact, i do. : )
>
>Good, I glad you got an umbridge out of it.  Although, I did need the
>umbridge you took from me.  Its going to rain this weekend.  ;<)

lol.  you're a funny guy. ; )

>> <retort about the realism of MT snipped for the sake of tact>
>
>Hey, its not perfect, but it works for me.

That's good.  I'm not meaning disparagment towards you or MT.  it's a decent
system after all.  I just think TNE is better.  

<snip>

>>      Hmm... drinking J fuel.  Quick! How many calories in hydrogen?
>None.  It would evaparate before it hits your mouth.

I can still inhale it! 

<snip>

>> >2, & 3, & thought, "Well if a jump drive weighs so much & uses so much
>fuel
>> >why not use controlled wormholes?", but we will not get into my
>background.
>> Well my answer would be... if they've been lugging around these heavy and
>fuel
>> hungry jump drives for like 10000 years now in basically the same form,
>they
>> must be necessary.
>
>Depends on when you set the game & what new discoveries are made.

I don't think it matters unless u're running an Ancients campaign (pcs
children of Grandpa).  Werent' Ziru Sirka designs basically the same as 3I
(and Reformation Coalition) and all of the alien designs?  You could always
play in the "far future" or just ignore canon.

>> >Legate
>> >legate@futureone.com

I'm assuming your name isn't actually Legate?

>> >"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
>> >severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."
>>
>> "I know his name"
>
>Not you too.  That is the most common reply I have gotten from this ML,
>other than Flames because I dared to go against canon.  Heck, I was even
>called a Heritic <sp> by a lurker on the list.

lol. that's funny.  I had to say that. : )  Isn't that where that quote is
from?

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 02:14 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Ice and UWP's

Moin Legate,

> > If you have an ice covered world, does it's hydrosphere
> > get a 0 or an A in the UWP?

> I would hazard a guess that the hydrosphere datum is for free standing
> water so it would have to be 0, but if it is for all forms of water on a
> planet then A.  Maybe a new level should be created for the hydrosphere
> datum called B, Ice Covered.  But that is IMHO.

	any world with water but without ice is classfied as "Ic" Ice Caped
	in the UWP trade section.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:49:13 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Legate wrote:


>>>According to current (T4 and IIRC CT) technobabble, you 
>>>don't burn any of the fuel, it is used to create and maintain 
>>>the "real-space" "jump bubble".
>> 
>>I can't speak for T4, but this is not the CT explanation.  In fact,
>>the jump space sickness stuff in implies the "jump bubble" is
>>an electromagnetic field.
>
>Therefore, it can be created using only energy.  Such that 
>might come from a storage media.

Then why does High Guard say you have to have fuel in order 
to jump during break off?

PS:  It helps some of us follow the thread if you include the 
name of the people you are quoting.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 20:35:16 EST
From: SWMego@aol.com
Subject: Software for trav?

Does anyone have a character generator for Traveller characters in a format
that will run on ibm machines? Thanks...

Derek...
swmego@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:26:14
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Cyberware, Jump and Battle Rider and Required Execution

Cyberware :

Bloo,

This is mostly my opinion. However, Classic Traveller didnt have rules for
cyberware, predating Neuromancer as it did. TNE introduced them, together
with a number of other new ideas.

Now, you can argue pretty strongly that Trav does and has always had
cyberwear - the +1 Strength mod your Marine picks up is Muscle Replacement
etc, rather than 200 pushups a day for 4 years, your character with
Broker-4 has an implant with historical price data for most everything etc
etc.

You can also argue that cyberware is possible, but that, for some reason,
the Third Imperium doesnt do it, which is what I tried to do.

The third argument is that cyberimplants are impossible, even at TL12 and
up. This is possible, but difficult to justify.

I would finally note that the majority of Trav NPCs in various products
dont appear to have cyberware, so it either needs to be hiding "behind"
stats and skills, or for some reason it is heavily limited to certain persons.

***************************

Jump and Battle Riders

I'm following this debate with interest, designing as I am a 90 kton
battleship and a 30 kton battlecruiser.

My feeling is that under FFS2 the most signifigant limit on a warship is no
longer volume but is rather surface area and mass. Jump drives and fuel
tankage, whilst volume intensive, add relativly little in the way of
either. But we need to do a lot more design work to be sure.

****************************

Required Execution

In Australia, I was under the impression that at an auction, a vendor was
required to accept any price that exceeds the previously set reserve price.
You can't just go "Nope. Not enough" once the reserve price is exceeded.

The reason the rule is there is to stop players going "Nope. We wait until
we make money" and getting a new roll each week on their speculative cargo.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 01:14:22 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Legate:

*Why not get hold of a copy of FFS2 or FFS1 or the SOpM, all of which
contain nice amounts of material which can be used to handwave technology?

*Please drop the aggressive tone of your posts - I am starting to find them
offensive.

*Please check the references you do have before you post because you are
repeatedly making mistakes on the text in them. This is just undermining
your arguments in many cases, especially if you bear in mind the large
'technical' community on the TML.

*You wrote:
<< Heck, I was even called a Heritic <sp> by a lurker on the list.>>
Being called a 'heretic' is akin to a backhanded compliment. Ask Eris...
- -------------
General: This 'how does jump drive work' thread has got more than tedious
so for Legate's erudition here is current 'canon', quoting FFS2:

- -------------
Faster-Than-Light Drives

The standard method in Traveller has always been the jump drive, which
pushes a ship into a tunnel through "jump space." Due to the nature of
"jumpspace," the fall through the tunnel takes about the same amount of
time (168 hours) regardless of distance. This is a rather unique feature of
jumpspace--no matter how far a ship travels, it stays in jumpspace for
about 124(2d6x6) hours. The distance traveled is controlled by the amount
of energy a jump drive can channel to create the opening. Thus, jump drives
are rated by their maximum distance, measured in parsecs (1 parsec = 3.26
light years).

Jump Drive Operation

The jump drive consists of two main components: the drive, itself, and a
lanthanum hull grid. The grid is applied to the exterior of the ship, and
the cost of the grid (and installation) is included in the cost of the
drive. The drive is connected to the hull grid network. The:jump drive
requires fuel (liquid hydrogen) and energy (electricity). Practically all
of the energy and fuel are consumed in creating the tunnel through
jumpspace. Once the tunnel ise open, the ship must enter jumpspace or risk
damage, misjump, or destruction. The amount of fuel required for a
successful jump is equal to 10% of the displacement of the ship per parsec
of jump distance attempted. The amount of energy required to initiate a
jump is equal to 64MJ per cubicmeter per parsec jumped. This energy must be
provided to the drive in an hour or less (meaning that a starship must have
0.018MW of power plant per cubic meter per jump number).

Once in jumpspace, the jump drive maintains a small bubble of real space
around the ship, using power input to the jump drive from the power plant
(0.018MW per cubic meter per jump number). The fuel remaining in the jump
drive's surge tank is used to create a thin hydrogen atmosphere around the
ship during jump, which helps to delay the, collapse of the jump bubble. If
power to the drive is interrupted, the bubble collapses, causing jump
sickness, death of crew members, misjump, damage, or destruction of the
(any or all of these, at the referee's option).

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:52:49 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pen.net>
Subject: Re: Canon thoughts

SD Mooney wrote:
> 
> Eris wrote:
> 
> >Wasn't AHL about 10,000 tons?  

> 65k dT IIRC
> 
> But then again, how big is a heretic displacement tonne? ;-)

Ummm, as big as it wants to be? ;-p

Eris

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:49:03 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pen.net>
Subject: Re: Canon thoughts

Merrick Burkhardt wrote:
 
> Sup. 9 Fighting Ships, and Library Data both talk about it (Library
> data has a picture of a very Star Destroyer-like Sylea BB, for
> example. Sup. 9 has a the Tigress, Plankwell, and at least one other BB I think.
 
Ah, that explains it for me then!  I didn't buy Suppliment 9, it came
right as I was "getting a life" and not playing games.  Thankfully that
period only lasted a few years. ;->

> AHL was about 60ktons and was (er, is) a Cruiser.

Sorry I miswrote I didn't mean the AHL, I meant the Kinuur Class
Frontier Cruisers. And now that I think about them, weren't they even
smaller than 10,000 tons? 

Well, anyway my point is that, to me, Traveller doesn't mean really big
ships slugging it out. It means little ships...PC sized ships...in the
100 to 3,000 ton range. More toward the 100 end than the 3,000 end as
well. ;->

Eris

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 18:56:36 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Battleship vs Battlerider

On the other hand, you're not armouring and providing high-G
maneuver capability to all that bulky fuel (which can cost a lot,
especially if you like heavily armoured ships...) I've never
thought the advantage was overwhelming, but there is (ignoring
strategic/retreat considerations) and advantage; by leaving your
jump fuel out of the battle, you're a smaller target, and have less
surface area to armour. 

(Whether that's an advantage over battleships with drop or
recoeverable tanks is another question.)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:07:07 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Gravity Shields

One thing not mentioned in much of this list, and I'm surprised since a
number of Legates arguments on the J-drive question stem form Highguard, is
the fact that Black globe generators are NOT Imperial technology. According
to Highguard and I assume canon, BG generators are recovered artifacts and
require a MINIMUIM of tech level 15 for maintenence (refer Highguard First
Edition page 28). THis is one of the reasons I've always made such
technology very rare in my games, sort of a carrot for the players. Since
the gravity sheild system (which I like and have thought about as well!) is
very close to the Black Globe, in effect, if not actual (handwave)
technology, I think that they would NOT be available until approximately
TL15 at least, and realistically 16 or 17.

Thisi doesn't invalidate any of the current thread, since I believe it is
some valuable speculation, I just wanted to remind everyone of the cononical
implecations of haveing force feild armored ships buzzing about everywhere
in M:0, when they are, since the earliest days of Traveller, a very rare
occurence.

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com
Proud Traveller Ref since 1977!

- -----Original Message-----
From: Legate <legate@futureone.com>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Thursday, January 29, 1998 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: Gravity Shields



>> Hmmmm...it begins to sound like a functional description of Black Globe
>> technology to me.
>
>In part, but don't Black Globes attract weapons fire & this would deflect
>weapons fire.
>
>> Bruce Johnson
>
>Legate
>legate@futureone.com
>http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm
>
>"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
>severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 20:44:15 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Battleriders v. Battleships

I think that in terms of *tonnage* BRs (with tender) will wipe the
floor with BBs. It's been a long time since I messed around with HG,
however. Obviously it depends on what combat system you are using.

In HG, the biggest spinal weapon is still pretty small, so a few,
even a couple of BRs should kill a big BB, no problem (At TL 15 I'd
say 3 BRs as small as possible that hold a T MG will kill *any* BB
published. They will no doubt be cheaper, too).

In the TNE game BattleRider (unmodified) the BRs will win as well
since the (broken, IMO) system used for meson shields and hits in
general requires* an Outstanding hit to get through any BBs
defences.  As a result it is very luck based, the first good roll
wipes the other guy out---actually, spinal weapons beingone shot
kills on anything is looking more like canon ;-)

[*requires in most of the games I played which were CT-type TL14-15
fleet engagements]

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:21:34 -0600
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: Re: No, not a jump drive debate again! (was Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive)

>(At least it isn't the piracy debate.  You notice I managed to duck
>the last time it reared up in spite of the dumb things that got
>said...  :-)



Yes, I did. Wanna talk about katanas? :-)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:18:05 -0600
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: Conservation of energy (was Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive)

>One futher proviso however: the
>hydrogen used to create the bubble must exit from hyperspace along with
>the ship - otherwise, our universe will be losing mass every time someone
>jumps - thus seemingly violating the LAW: convservation of energy...


Except that jumpspace is still part of our physical universe. No mass is
lost, it is just relocated to another part of the universe -- it is just put
"over there", as opposed to here. It's like moving an object from point a to
point b, but in 4D.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:12:59 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pen.net>
Subject: Re: PBEM Task Resolution

Bruce Johnson wrote:
 
> PBEM is really bad for Roll-playing. If neither of you trust the other,
> then it just won't work. 

Bruce is right.  I'm a player/GM in several PBEM games and "rolling" is
minimumized and "roleing" is maximized.  Tell you're brother that *you*
are going to make all the rolls that are needed, but it will be the
quality of his descriptions that settle most events.
 
> PBEM's are far better for Role-playing. You have to let the GM do all the
> task resolution, and accept the results. On the other hand the GM has to
> be scrupulously fair. Setting up the scenarios to minimize random task
> rolls is also useful.

Absolutely!  In one PBEM I'm in a situation arose where my character
fired his pistol pointblank into the chest of an NPC (we're talking
execution here not combat) and the GM rules that I *missed* ;->!  He
*swears* he "rolled" that miss, but I really think he "ruled" it...if
you know what I mean.  OTOH, except for the occasional joke I make about
being such a bad shot that I can't hit the broad side of a Jocko I
raised no fuss and played on.  Players just have to TRUST that the GM
will be fair and won't abuse their trust.  

BTW, in case you think this GM is the sort that just won't kill, wrong! 
He's bumped off PC's left and right. ;->  

My advice is to do all the rolling yourself, and as little of it as you
can get away with. Heck! That's my advice for FTF games too. ;->


Eris

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 00:56:00 EST
From: Darth@aol.com
Subject: Jump Drive / Space / Time

I don't know if this will help any, but here goes!  ; )

There seems to be some concerns about the "scientific validity" of the FIXED
amount of time a jump takes (approximately one standard week).  "Why the same
amount of time for a Jump-5 as a Jump-1?"

I've always thought about it this way ...

My particle physics are a bit rusty, but as I recall from Nuclear Power Skewl
in the US Navy, electrons in atoms occupy discrete and FIXED energy levels
(which we choose to conceptualize as "shells" ... word on the streets is they
are really "quantum sphere probabilities").

You slam a certain amount of energy into an electron (usually in the form of a
photon) and *bam* it "jumps" (no pun intended) to another, FIXED, level in the
atom. There are only certain "legal" levels (i.e., the only ones that exist!),
and  the level it jumps to is dependent on the energy the photon imparted to
the electron. Most of the time, it jumps one or maybe two levels "up."  Later,
it may discharge the energy (again, in the form of a photon) and "drop back
down."

Regardless of how many levels an individual electron actually jumps, it occurs
(for all practical intents) instantaneously.  Now, it may be a bit hard to
conceptualize, but an instantaneous moment is a *FIXED* amount of time.
Electrons ALWAYS jump, and it ALWAYS takes the same amount of time (even if
the time is "no time at all").

See where I'm going?  Punching that hole in hyperspace is an event similar to
changing the quantum state of an electron ... and depending upon the energy
imparted to the *punch* into hyperspace, you reach a different "energy level."
In game terms, your jump distance is determined by the power of your energy
*punch*.  And just like quantum states, there are only FIXED states that are
"allowed" in this universe, hence "Jump-1, Jump-2, Jump-3" ... etc.

"Dropping out of Jumpspace" is akin to an electron discharging energy and
emitting a photon to return to a lower energy level, in this case, returning
to "normal" space.

As far as the slighly random differential regarding the time in Hyperspace, I
just figure that that "instantaneous" moment we see in quantum mechanics
actually is some *slightly* varying time, and the elongated period of a Jump
simply magnifies a variable we'd see if we were able to actually measure it.

Anyway, sorry for the long post, but maybe this will help with some of the
higher-order conceptual difficulties associated with Jump.

   Darth

P.S.  I also just tell players, "that's the way it is." 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:03:42 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@m9.sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Another Thoughts on Jump

No countdown. You have a 'jumpwatch' posted after 5 1/2 days or so. 
You just keep someone on the bridge :)

Can make for some intresting times..

Had a ship exit jump between two battlecrusers that were not really 
freindly.. They never got hit, but, boy the sensor op had a cow..



> Hello everybody on the list again!!
> In MT and TNE the time in J-Space is 6,7, or 8 days at random.
> But can this time be calculated before the ship exits J-space?
> 
> I mean, people in the ship have a countdown to exit time? so they ar at
> battle stations when the ship emerges?
> 
> Or when the ship exits and the computer detects it in the 6th day we
> have alarms . WARNING WARNING we are at real-space everybody to the
> bridge!!!
> 
> Does someone knows the canon answer? :-)
> Does anyone knows other answers?
> 
> PS: sorry for my english it's very bad today...
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Mikel Izal Azcárate
> mizal@arrakis.es
> 
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com           http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

Thought for the day:
    Book (n): a utensil used to pass time while waiting
    for the TV repairman.

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 01:13:02 EST
From: Darth@aol.com
Subject: Jump Drive Matter Issue

In a message dated 1/29/98 11:53:33 PM, Hal wrote:

>One futher proviso however: the
>hydrogen used to create the bubble must exit from hyperspace along with
>the ship - otherwise, our universe will be losing mass every time someone
>jumps - thus seemingly violating the LAW: convservation of energy...

Conservation of energy seems to apply to closed systems, but it's really not
clear that the "Law" applies to the universe as a whole.

The dudes with the telescopes and the thinking caps are still working on it,
but it may be likely that the universe we're all experiencing together is a
dance of black holes and white fountains.

Some suck in (the black holes), some blow out (the white fountains) ... but on
the stellar, galactic, and universal scales, I'm not sure the ledger sheets
are always "balanced."  I mean, this rock get a LOT of energy from that ball
of fire 1 AU away, huh?

Just a thought!

  Darth

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 06:21:15 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Wounds and Healing

On Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:08:22 -0600, Miller, Chris wrote:

> Not a terrible idea, but if we're going to revamp the damage system this
> thoroughly, why not some kind of hit location system. I mean, which is
> better :
> "Ow - he shot me in the strength!"
> -or-
> "Ow, he shot me in the arm!"

I prefer the beauty of the CT/T4 system, actually.  It is far more random
than a system that applies damage to hit locations with fixed amounts of
hit points.  If an arm can take, say, 8 points of damage, you pretty much
know exactly what will happen if it does take 8 points.

With CT/T4, those 8 points can be applied to the three physical stats in a
multitude of ways.  If a character's three physical stats are all of
different values, a hit to one could automatically render him unconscious,
while a hit to another may not.  A character could take 20 points of damage
and be close to death, or he could still be conscious and active.  In a
way, this does away with any extra dice rolling involving staying
conscious, etc.

Also, the current system works well with either point-source damage or
explosives.  Hit locations with regards to explosions are either handled
inappropriately (eg: damage caused to only a couple of locations) or made
needlessly complicated (eg: *all* hit locations take the same amount of
damage).

> I've experimented with linking attributes to body parts - say end to
> torso, dex to legs, str to arms, but people always want to argue things
> like "well strength would be more appropriate to legs than dex" etc and
> it tends to get a little messy, but would a simple arm/leg/chest/head
> system be too much to ask? Makes it easy to add in some kind of task
> modifiers too.

I've been thinking about it this way:

STR hits represent injuries to bones, tendons, and other critical areas
required to apply a character's strength (not necessarily muscle mass).
Mainly arms and legs, but not including hands and feet.

DEX hits represent head hits (loss of motor control, shock) and hand/feet
injuries (loss of manipulation and/or balance).

END hits represent mainly trunk hits (general fatigue and/or blood loss).

Just MHO.



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mono au mono, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 01:32:23 EST
From: Darth@aol.com
Subject: Sorry state of affairs ...

In a message dated 1/30/98 12:23:43 AM, Andy Lilly <a.s.lilly@nortel.co.uk>
wrote:

>And I'm assured (from other friends who write for the RPG
>industry) that IG do not "*pay* for it", i.e. their fees are hardly
>extravagant. :-)

From some of the postings on this list, it would appear that IG seems NOT TO
PAY AT ALL for some of the content they publish.

Contract-law wise, that means they never really "purchased the rights."
"Purchasing" implies timely payment for services or products rendered.

They may have signed contracts and other legal mumbo-jumbo, but it don't mean
didly if they aren't forthcoming with the Credits.

Its sad to see great content not reaching an obviously interested audience
because a company seems to practice such unprofessional and unethical
behaviors.

Still relatively-new to the T4 era,

  Darth

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 23:07:56 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

> >> >space" "jump bubble".  If this is the standard for T4, thank god I quit
> >> >buying after MT was ended.  TNE looked like unrealistic garbage.  T4, 
> >> >sounds like Star Trek.
> >>     Whoah there partner.  Them be fighting words.  "Unrealistic garbage?"
> >My bad, I'm sorry.  But, to me it looked IMHO unrealistic.  Mostly because
> >they took out the 3rd Imp.  I really like the 3rd Imp.  That, plus the fact
> >that Traveller is one of the best Hard SF games out there.  The whole Virus
> >thingy was the real kicker for me into the unrealistic garbage realm.
> Well w/ all due respect to you and your expertise at being a network
> administrator,  I don't think you or anyone else (save perhaps Nostradamus)
> has any clue in hell what a computer is going to be like in the 57th century.
> If u had been trained in the early 80s w/  no follow ups, u probably wouldn't
> know what the hell was going on now much less in 3700 plus years.  It's my
> understanding Virus was meant as a metaphor for technology beyond our current
> understanding.  They chose to be explicit concerning the computer architecture
> and were thus able to utilize Signal GK among other things. 

I know, that is why I did not get into the thread about computer networking
in Traveller.  Although, from what I understood the virus was something to
do with computers.  Although, I do have one thing to say about networking
in Traveller.

	Computers will always be faster that the network they are on.  'nuff said.

> >> Normally, I could take extreme umbridge w/ that.  If fact, i do. : )
> >Good, I glad you got an umbridge out of it.  Although, I did need the
> >umbridge you took from me.  Its going to rain this weekend.  ;<)
> lol.  you're a funny guy. ; )

Thank you, I try.  It helps to be a bit funny in my job, that or go insane.
 ;<)
 
> >> <retort about the realism of MT snipped for the sake of tact>
> >Hey, its not perfect, but it works for me.
> That's good.  I'm not meaning disparagment towards you or MT.  it's a
decent
> system after all.  I just think TNE is better.  

Well, I thought that TNE was good, but MT was better in many ways.

> >>      Hmm... drinking J fuel.  Quick! How many calories in hydrogen?
> >None.  It would evaparate before it hits your mouth.
> I can still inhale it! 

Kebler Elf voice time. ;<)

> >> >2, & 3, & thought, "Well if a jump drive weighs so much & uses so
much
> >fuel
> >> >why not use controlled wormholes?", but we will not get into my
> >background.
> >> Well my answer would be... if they've been lugging around these heavy
and
> >fuel
> >> hungry jump drives for like 10000 years now in basically the same
form,
> >they
> >> must be necessary.
> >Depends on when you set the game & what new discoveries are made. 
> I don't think it matters unless u're running an Ancients campaign (pcs
> children of Grandpa).  Werent' Ziru Sirka designs basically the same as
3I
> (and Reformation Coalition) and all of the alien designs?  You could
always
> play in the "far future"
> or just ignore canon.

I generally ignore Canon & set my game in the "Near-Far Future".  Mostly,
its a lot like Babylon 5 with the Aslan, Centar, Kree, Hiver, Vargar, & the
Eldar Confederation (My own creation, email me for some juicy bits about
it) added.

> >> >Legate
> >> >legate@futureone.com
> I'm assuming your name isn't actually Legate?

Nope, but I have been called "Legate" for so long it is almost my real
name.  To be sure everyone knows me as "Legate" & as such it has become my
name for everything but legal stuff.

> >> >"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his
own
> >> >severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."
> >> "I know his name"
> >Not you too.  That is the most common reply I have gotten from this ML,
> >other than Flames because I dared to go against canon.  Heck, I was even
> >called a Heritic <sp> by a lurker on the list.
> lol. that's funny.  I had to say that. : )  Isn't that where that quote
is
> from?

Gimme the Prize (Kargan's Theme), Queen, A Bit of Magic, & Highlander I.
 
> Gary

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #70
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Friday, January 30 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 071



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: PBEM Task Resolution
Re: Astronomy (was Re: sin in traveller?)
Re: A Question about Hits
Re: Planetary atmospheres and Black curtain
RE: Wounds and Healing
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Xenomimesis
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Ice and UWP's
Re: +D-D Discussion (renamed)
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Gravity Shields
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: Low tech colony ship
Re: Brocolli - was +D-D Discussion (renamed)
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Thoughts on jump drives
Re: Initial colonization considerations
Re: THUDDD 8 comments (was: Thudd 9)
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 23:10:43 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

> From: Richard A. Flores <cybernot@gte.net>
> >>>According to current (T4 and IIRC CT) technobabble, you 
> >>>don't burn any of the fuel, it is used to create and maintain 
> >>>the "real-space" "jump bubble".
> >>I can't speak for T4, but this is not the CT explanation.  In fact,
> >>the jump space sickness stuff in implies the "jump bubble" is
> >>an electromagnetic field.
> >Therefore, it can be created using only energy.  Such that 
> >might come from a storage media.
> Then why does High Guard say you have to have fuel in order 
> to jump during break off?

Don't know.  But, as Mark is on the TML, maybe he should answer this.

> PS:  It helps some of us follow the thread if you include the 
> name of the people you are quoting.

My bad on this list only.  On the other ML's I am on, they do not want the
name of the people I am replying to.

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 23:15:20 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

> From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
> Legate:
> *Why not get hold of a copy of FFS2 or FFS1 or the SOpM, all of which
> contain nice amounts of material which can be used to handwave
technology?

Cannot find it where I live.  About the only thing I can find here where I
live is T$R.

> *You wrote:
> << Heck, I was even called a Heritic <sp> by a lurker on the list.>>
> Being called a 'heretic' is akin to a backhanded compliment. Ask Eris...

Not really, in my peoples (jews) past we were burned at the stake for being
Heretics to the word of Christ.

> Faster-Than-Light Drives

<Snip-Snip>

Thank you.

> ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:21:37 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

In mail you write:

>> > Must have.  Well, even so, why waste a good ship.  If you have the
> plans
>> > for a jump drive, why not retrofit it with Jump Drive after you have
>> > arrived?
>> Because if you are sending an STL ship on a journey that takes a
>> millenium, you don't *have* the jump drive!
>
> You would think that in that period of time they could develop jump drive,
> but that is just me.

The folks at home might. But the folks on the ship aren't likely to.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:40:04 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: PBEM Task Resolution

In mail you write:

>>I'm trying to start a PBEM campaign with my brother and a friend (the
>>most I can handle).  But what to do to simlulate die rolling?  Are there
>>any untilities that will allow 2 people on the net see the results of
>>the same roll?  We hope to use chat, but I don't trust him to tell me
>>his die rolls, and he doesn't trust me.  We are brothers after all.
>>
>>Any ideas?

Well, if you are willing to get CompuServe accounts, CB (their chat
equivalent) has a "Roll" command. It "rolls" 2D6 and displays the
results to everybody on that channel. It was put in *specifically* to
allow online gaming.

Oh yeah, it displays *both* dice, not the sum. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 98 22:57:04 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Astronomy (was Re: sin in traveller?)

On 01/29/98 at 12:41 AM,  Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net> said:

>I would like to see a backwards compatible accurate system generation
>method.  It would need to say something like "This planet C 567123-9 is
>habitable and therefore it probably orbits a star of this stellar range,
>roll on this table" and "This planet C213567-9 is not habitable, therefore
>roll its sun up on _this_ table."

That certainly would be a nice feature.  Whoever it was that was thinking
about doing a software project might include this as a function.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 98 23:53:14 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: A Question about Hits

On 01/29/98 at 09:00 PM,  aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
said:

>> With this new method you'd have had 2d+(+d-d), or roll 2 and 4 then +6-4.
>> The *total* would be 6+2 or 8, but how could you apply each of the dice to
>> a characteristic?  Which die does the +2 add to?  Or do you plan to take
>> the entire roll off one characteristic now?

>Good point.

Well, Andrew, I really am perplexed on how Marc intends to *use* this +d-d.
I just can't see how it works unless you total all the dice and take the
resulting number out of *one* pot. Is he going to stay with hits reducing
Characteristics or reducing some sort of hit point total?

I was hoping Marc would shed a little light on this.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 98 23:32:35 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Planetary atmospheres and Black curtain

On 01/29/98 at 04:34 PM,  anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman) said:

> In my universe, taken from some blasphemous ideas on the list (Eris?), all
>but droyne are actually minor: the so called major races are just better
>at hiding the fact. 

At your service! ;->

I seem to recall Marc *not* disagreeing when I suggested that all the
so-called major races might have "found" the jump drive rather than
independently inventing it. ;->


Eris,
    the heretic
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 00:10:50 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: RE: Wounds and Healing

On 01/29/98 at 04:08 PM,  "Miller, Chris" <CMiller@uniden.com> said:

>Not a terrible idea, but if we're going to revamp the damage system this
>thoroughly, why not some kind of hit location system. I mean, which is
>better :
>"Ow - he shot me in the strength!"
>-or-
>"Ow, he shot me in the arm!"

>I've experimented with linking attributes to body parts - say end to
>torso, dex to legs, str to arms, but people always want to argue things
>like "well strength would be more appropriate to legs than dex" etc and it
>tends to get a little messy, but would a simple arm/leg/chest/head system
>be too much to ask? Makes it easy to add in some kind of task modifiers
>too.

This is a set of ideas I've been toying with. 

How about a dual track system for damage?

I.  The LIFE FORCE track is the sum of STR+CON+WILL (avg 21).

        [Note the inclusion of WILL.]
        
    a.  The *sum* of damage dice comes off this total.  
   
    b.  To stay conscious you have to succeed at a 3d task against your
        remaining LIFE FORCE.
       
    c.  If remaining LIFE FORCE goes below 10 it will drop by 1 each
        turn until medical attention is received, or you achieve a
        critical success at the 3d task.
        
    d.  When remaining LIFE FORCE falls below 3 you are automatically
        unconscious, but you keep rolling each turn trying to make that
        critical success.  (That's 3 ones, in my system.)

    e.  If remaining LIFE FORCE falls to -LIFE FORCE you are *dead*,
        irretrievable dead.
        
    f.  LIFE FORCE is regained slowly, and only after combat ends and
        the character is resting, generally through medical attention.
        
II. The Skill Degradation track reduces Attributes die by die.

    a.  Different body locations affect different Attributes
    
        1.  Head:       INT, EDU
        
        2.  BODY:       STR, END
        
        3.  ARMS:       STR, DEX
        
        4.  LEGS:       END, AGL

            [Note both AGL & DEX, I include both, if you don't, you
             just use DEX for both.]

    b.  A roll is made for hit location. 
    
        [Glen has a good one, as does TNE.]
        
    c.  Each die is applied to affected Attributes one after another in
        a round robin fashion.
        
    d.  Attributes can be reduced below 0 affecting completion of tasks,
        but not otherwise affecting the character.
        
    e.  Each turn no damage is taken 1 point is added back to *1*
        Attribute of the player's choice.
        
Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 00:49:24 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

On 01/30/98 at 01:14 AM,  SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> said:

>*You wrote:
><< Heck, I was even called a Heritic <sp> by a lurker on the list.>> Being
>called a 'heretic' is akin to a backhanded compliment. Ask Eris...

Smile when you say that Partner! ;->

Eris,
    the Heretic
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 23:07:16 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Xenomimesis

Michael Peters wrote:


>I, for one, will miss you. After all what will the list be like without the
>Leader of it's Moral Majority (minority?). Hope to see ya back soon and

Thanks <G>.  But never fear.  We'll be sure to be back in time for THUDDD
9.  We have something _very_ _special_ _indeed_ in mind.

>don't let 'em work you into "normalcy" or death, whatever's worse!

Same thing.

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 21:47:45 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Bolie Williams IV wrote

>"I know his name..."

What is it?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:15:12 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Ice and UWP's

David P. Summers asked:


>If you have an ice covered world, does it's hydrosphere
>get a 0 or an A in the UWP?

It has to be 1 or more.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 23:17:46 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: +D-D Discussion (renamed)

Marc said:

>Does this mean the +D -D will be an option the player selects?


Have you ever tried to run a campaign using a rule the players don't like?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 23:07:08 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

TravelrTNE wrote:


>     Hmm... drinking J fuel.  Quick! How many calories in hydrogen?

If you are doing the calculations, don't forget that the hydrogen in
question is a cryofluid.  :-)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 20:44:04 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Not knowing exactly what you mean by "Jump Space Radio", I will refer you to
the Meson Communicators, which in FF&S2 is introduced at TL 15.

Any other form of FTL communications are strictly non-canon.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:59:31 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Gravity Shields

Bruce Johnson wrote:

>Hmmmm...it begins to sound like a functional description of Black Globe
>technology to me.

I suspect that by the time the tech levels were high enough to allow for
Grav Shields, that white globes would be perfected.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 20:36:12 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

Legate wrote:


>Well, have you ever read the "Monk" stories?  They had an interstellar
>empire without FTL, until man came along with FTL & took over.

No, I can't say I have.  Who wrote them?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 23:19:27 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Low tech colony ship

SD Mooney wrote:


>>From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> wrote:
>
>>ASlack@synetics.co.uk <ASlack@synetics.co.uk> wrrote:
>>>Check out Duncan Lunan's book "Man and the Stars" which addresses
>>>this question [numbers needed for a sucessful colony] in detail. If there
>>>is general interest I can dig out my copy and post a summary of his
>>>thoughts...
>>>
>>I'm interested.
>
>This provoked me to dig out the book from the depths of my shelves. It's
>got pictures too ;-) and a hell of a big section on ramscoop ships.

Now he tells us!  :-)

I'm still interested.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 23:22:35 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Brocolli - was +D-D Discussion (renamed)

SD Mooney wrote:

>Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK wrote:
>
>>Hmm. That looks rude, which is not my intent, so please let me clarify by
>>analogy: I don't like broccoli, and I don't eat them. That doesn't mean I
>>want to stop stores carrying broccoli, or stop other people eating
>>broccoli, or think any the worse of broccoli farmers.
>
>The Hresh embassy on Dingir wishes to lodge an official complaint to the
>Solomani racialists who are prejudiced against those of a vegetative
>nature... ;-)

Which leads me to wonder, how would a Hresh taste with cheese sauce?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 20:32:26 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

Legate wrote:

>Shadow wrote:

>>Legate wrote:

>>>why waste a good ship.  If you have the plans
>>>for a jump drive, why not retrofit it with Jump Drive after you have
>>>arrived?

>>Because if you are sending an STL ship on a journey that takes a
>>millenium, you don't *have* the jump drive!
>
>You would think that in that period of time they could develop jump drive,
>but that is just me.

You know, when this thread was introduced, I remember thinking that by the
time they got there there would already be a fully developed colony, well
into the mature level.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:11:22 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com> wrote:

>Given the expense of sending an STL colony ship I'd guess that the whole
>ship would be used for something.  I also doubt that the colony would
>have much to send back that would need a ship.  What I would expect is
>that some part of the ship would be able to be converted into a huge
>antenna to send messages back and forth.  If nothing else, the colony
>would most likely generate scientific data that would be of interest to
>the homeworld.   They may also wish to send STL data carriers back,
>but these would be as small as possible.

When we were discussing the ship earlier, I wondered why they didn't drop
some on the way out.

You could get an adequate setup with 9 double 100,000 AU directional
transceivers.  But then again there would be the power problem, etc.  Hmmm,
if any one is interested, I might be persuaded to design them.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 20:24:19 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Legate <legate@futureone.com>


>So is this ["Jump Bubble"] a form of energy shield?

No, it's a form of physical reality/existance.

>Yes, so how do you create the "jump bubble"?  Do you use energy or matter?

The formation of a "jump bubble" requires both energy and matter.  The
details are not explained, but from the things that are said, I would say
that you use the energy to set up a kind of net to hold the LHyd in place.
Perhaps in these discussion of jump drive, we should not refer to the LHyd
as fuel, because in this instance, it isn't fuel anymore than diesal is fuel
when used to lubricate and clean light weight machinery

PS:  calling any part of the Traveller past (or present) literature garbage
(or similar things) will tend to stir up hard feelings and hard words.  I
don't know anything about TNE, so don't have an opinion, but, you will find
a better caliber of response if you refrain from inflammatory language.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 23:37:11 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on jump drives

Andrew Akins wrote:


>I do have a question for those more scientifically bent people - Why can't
>j-drives just burn the fuel in some sort of reaction that generates ENORMOUS
>ammounts of power, but cannot sustain the reaction - thus they would be
>acceptable for punching the hole into jumpspace (we are talking about
>ripping space-time here), but wouldn't be useful as an actual powersource
>except in specific applications. Put in some handwave like "the jump drive
>cannot be reengaged for several <hours or days> in order for the Zuuchai (I
>know I spelled that wrong) crystals to discharge the residual energy - any
>sooner than that, and the crystals crack".
>
>So sure, you could use a jump drive plant to power a weapon or something -
>once, and then wait a while. I woudl say the cool off time would need to be
>days...

I think that I read somewhere the turn around time with standard maintenance
is 18 hours.  With out, it could be a matter of minutes, but your risk
factor is higher.  A third jump w/o maintenance would be almost certain
disaster.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:38:52 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Initial colonization considerations

Legate wrote:

>Just a few thoughts here about High Population worlders going to a colony
>world.  What would be the psychological impact to them?  ...

Ever hear the term "culture shock"?  OTOH, there would be preparing
for the reality of a new world from the time they heard of the project.

>What I mean is that the people on the home world would think "Thank god,
>something is being done about the problem."  ...

Take even a 100,000 (the largest size colony discussed) out of a
1,000,000,000 and what kind of dent do you make?  The answer:  none!  OTOH,
there is always the propaganda machine to turn this into a solution if you
need one.  :-)

>But, with people raised in a
>dense population situation would this not cause some problems
with them working together, i.e. not trust, thinking the other person is
going to stab them
>in the back.  By High Population, I mean in the tens of billions, not what
>we have now.

I live on a high population world (6,000,000,000+), that doesn't stop me
from trusting total strangers with all kinds of stuff.  The people they are
going with will not be strangers.  They will go through training and
orientation together.  They might even have been friends before applying for
the colony.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 21:25:12 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: THUDDD 8 comments (was: Thudd 9)

Craig Berry wrote:


>The problem is that I suspect that the Caravel and a couple of the other
>designs don't add up correctly (in price and other variables).  Given the
>amount of time I spend on other aspects of the THUDDD contests already, I
>simply don't have time to go over each design for its technical validity;
>I've been counting on list discussions to bring this out during the voting
>period.
>
>However, that hasn't been happening to the extent I'd expected.  Would
>anyone care to form the "ISBA Technical Review Board" to go over the
>designs soon after I announce them, and announce any problems found to the
>lists?  Perhaps authors could submit their designs to the Board for
>confidential vetting before the entry deadline, as well.

As a hopeful contributor to THUDDD 9, perhaps I'm not the best one to offer
to help...

OTOH, maybe I am.  Here's my suggestion.  Why don't you allow those who are
willing, to take as many designs as they care to evaluate (one at a time).

This initial evaluation would be solely to determine whether they actually
did the design properly.  They would answer questions like:  Is there enough
fuel tankage?  Is the acceleration properly figured?  Does the volume fit
within the hull specified?  Etc.

These "fault finders" would only check to see if the numbers added up.
There only job would be to find mistakes in the designs, not to do any kind
of judging.  Then weather the designs checked out or not, they would be
"returned" to you for actual judging.  In fact the designs wouldn't have to
be emailed back, only the notes.  Then when you receive the technical
reports, you can make sure that the Reviewer hasn't made a mistake (which
will be tons easier on you than reviewing the designs).  The process might
take a little longer, but, IMHO, would result in better designs.

The reason I think that I, as a hopeful contributor, would actually make a
good ISBA TRB member is that the only thing I could do would be to find the
problems with the someone else's design (which the judge would double
check).  Since a problem would eliminate a design, I would be motivated to
find them, if for no other reason than to eliminate one design that might be
competing with mine.  :-)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 00:53:53 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

David P. Summers wrote:
>Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:49:13 -0800, Scott Ellsworth wrote:
>> Getting serious again, it is a reasonable hypothesis.  If you have ever
>> bothered to work out how much energy you would get from fusing that much
>> H2, you would see that it is a tremendous amount - enough that jump drive
>> power plants would replace all others if they had even a small fraction
of
>> the efficiency of a regular power plant.
>
>Well, this is not clear.  But that has been debated before.

Well David, let's see if we can't clear that up a bit.  If the Jump Drive
had the same efficiency (energy output per unit of fuel) as a Fusion power
plant (a technology introduced at the same point TL9), that should give us a
better picture of what we are talking about.  The smallest JD allowed would
pass 10 tons of fuel through in a matter of seconds.  For comparison, that's
enough fuel to run a minimal Fusion PP-9 for almost a year (14/15 of a year
to be precise).

Let's run some numbers, shall we?  For the sake of argument, let's say a
year is 360 days long and the conversion process takes 8 seconds.  So we are
talking about 360 days x 14 / 15 x 24 hours/day x 3600 seconds/hour x 1,000
m^3 x 2 MW / m^3 = 58,060,800,000 megawatt seconds.  That gives us a through
put of 7,257,600,000 megawatts per second.  This is an amount of power that
is almost impossible to comprehend.  To give you something for comparison,
that's the equivalent of putting 35,954 square km of the sun's surface
inside a 140 cubic meter box.

>I will just add that, for me, rather than retool a whole entire
>theory of jump drive which is forced to fit the constraints
>impossed by the previous theory (and so has to arbitrarily
>fit things that don't flow naturally from it) it would be better
>to keep it simple.  My take is the the reason why jump reactors
>can have higher throughputs is the same reason jump drives
>need such througput.  You need to sink a lot of energy
>into jump space, but that also provides a sink to dump energy
>quick enough that you don't melt down the reactor.  This is simple,
>inutitive, and fits the best with previous background.  It doesn't
>have the arbitrary feel that one gets (IMO) from trying to
>fit a theory to constraints that have nothing to do with that
>theory.
>
>> Perhaps even more telling, a jump is possible with unrefined fuel.  Damn
>> few power plants can accept a significant fraction of other chemicals in
>> the feedstocks, especially they horrific mix in most gas giants.
>
>> As a result, they are certainly not using the H2 for fuel
>
>I don't agree.  A gas giant is 99% hydrogen and helium most plower
>can run with 1% impurities.  Obviously no one has built a practical
>fusion power plant, but the idea that it can't tolerate traces of
>impurities is debatable at best.
>
>In any case, Traveller allows unrefined fuel to be used for maneuver
>drives, weapons, etc.  All cases where it is clearly being used
>for a fusion plant.
>______________________________
>summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #71
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Friday, January 30 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 072



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Canon thoughts
XTML down?
Cyberware in Traveller
Re: Decompression/T4.1 Hit System
Heretics and heathens
Re: Canon thoughts
Re: Heretics and heathens
Posting WD articles
+D-D discussion (aka Time of Death for Spacing)
Decompression/T4.1 Hit System
Initial Colony Considerations
Re: Gravity Shields
Re: Gravity Shields
Brocolli - was +D-D discussion
Wounds and Healing
Thoughts on Jump Drive
+D3-D3
Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Thoughts on jump drive

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 01:34:34 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Canon thoughts

Eris wrote:


>Well, anyway my point is that, to me, Traveller doesn't mean really big
>ships slugging it out. It means little ships...PC sized ships...in the
>100 to 3,000 ton range. More toward the 100 end than the 3,000 end as
>well. ;->

I know what you mean.  When a friend of mine and I had disagreement about
which were better we decided to go with a "Trillion Credit Showdown".  The
rules we agreed on were simple, anything in Traveller (CT) went.  If it was
cannon, you could use it.  He built a handful of huge ships.  I on the other
hand built a handful of open structure tenders and thousands (ok hundreds)
of small fighters, capable of mounting those tiny meson guns from Stryker
(gosh I wish I still had those books).

On first approach, he assume it would be a toe to toe slug fest.  You should
have seen the look on his face when my heavies disintegrated.  It was
tedious, but it was a slaughter.  (I think he finally managed to escape with
a couple of scouts.  I lost less that 30% of my fleet.)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 08:43:10 +0100
From: Anders Lindborg <alg@akribi.se>
Subject: XTML down?

Is the XTML down? I tried subscribing earlier but
only got an error message in return...
/Anders Lindborg

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 00:08:57 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Cyberware in Traveller

CT didn't have rules for cyberware except for the computer implant 
(described in JTAS # 22 in an article by J. Andrew Keith).  However, 
there were trade prices for cyberware.  In Alien Module 7: Hivers, page
36 trade and commerce price list:

Modified Base Prices:

Computers  		CR 5,000,000
Electronic parts	CR    75,000
Cybernetic parts	CR   200,000
Computer parts		CR    75,000

In MT Digest Groups' Traveller's Digest # 13 has rules for all sorts of 
cyberware, both as simple prosthetic replacements and as improvements, 
while the MT Imperial Encyclopedia has implanted bionic gill (35,000 CR)
as one of its listed pieces of equipment.

Similarly, the adventure Knightfall has a few NPCs with cyberware, 
including some who are just heads on robot bodies.

TNE has extensive cyberware rules in FF&S

In short, cyberware is very much a part of Traveller canon, if you want 
it to be.


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 23:04:45 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Decompression/T4.1 Hit System

neo@total.net (Glenn Grant) wrote

> Stevie D (aka Bloo) <blueboy@bu.edu> said,

> >Glenn Grant wrote:
> >
> >> Another problem is ebullism - see my accompanying post on vac exposure. Gas
> >> bubbles in the blood might kill a PC even if recompression is quickly
> >> achieved.

> >Wouldn't one of these in the brain be fatal?

> I'm not a doctor, but as I understand it, gas bubbles in the blood can be
> deadly. But, I suspect, not always. I understand that 'the bends' can be
> excruciatingly painful, but is usually survivable.
> 
> I also assume that a TL12 sickbay has some method [hands waving furiously]
> of dealing with ebullism in the few minutes available before a gas bubble
> gets into your brain and kills you.

You must mean the Gravisonic Modulator.  The Gravisonic Modulator is
first developed (at TL 11) in a bulky "iron lung" type format.  At TL 12
it is refined to become a barely portable piece of equiptment used at
all good hospitals.  At TL 13 it is a portable standard Shipboard
sickbay item.  At TL 14 it is integrated into the standard AutoMedic. 
By Tl 15 it is portable.  

"The gravisonic modulator works using a variation of the standard
artificial gravity floorfield used in your starship.  It forces a very
weak (0.01 - 0.05 G) gravity field pulse into the patients body.  Using
a special type of modulation we force the beam to act only on gases.  It
therefore forces the gas bubbles out of the patient blood, preventing
ebullism.  Please note that these devices _must_ be used with extreme
care around the lungs to avoid affecting them.  To use the TL version of
the modulator the patient must be on a high pressure respirator.

Some of you may be wondering just how we get the modulator to affect
gases only.  The exact answer to that question is a trade secret but
basically the units  sonic sensors can sense the density of the
substance they are affecting.  You should also note that if you switch
the unit to reverse you can use it to recarbonate any flat sodas you
have :)"

Gravisonic Modulator

TL 	Vol	Mass 	Cost	

11	1 kl	250kg	75,000
12	50l	40kg	50,000
13	2 l	1.5kg	10,000
14  	included in a standard Auto Medic or if seperate
	1 l	1 kg	2,500
15	0.25 l	0.25 kg	1,000

All Medical recovery tasks for treating Vaccum exposure are 1 level
easier if a Gravisonic Modulator is used.  If using the TL 11 version of
the modulator a seperate Fatefull Routine test of Med & Dex must be made
to use the modulator.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 03:35:35 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Heretics and heathens

>> From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
>> Legate:
>> *Why not get hold of a copy of FFS2 or FFS1 or the SOpM, all of which
>> contain nice amounts of material which can be used to handwave
>technology?
>
>Cannot find it where I live.  About the only thing I can find here where I
>live is T$R.

Bummer.  You can look on the web or newsgroups.  If you're not following the
threads u might want to stay away from direct ordering from IG.  : ) I got an
SoM at an admittedly hideous price, but it was all a question of how much i
wanted it. I've just acquired Supplement 9: Fighting Ships for 12 bucks
(including S&H).  That's not bad at all.  I've got a decent line on a trade
for some of my old d&d stuff for the 2 DGP alien volumes.  Try
rec.games.frp.marketplace.  Don't make any posts unless u want big time spam
and/or got blockers ready : )

>> *You wrote:
>> << Heck, I was even called a Heritic <sp> by a lurker on the list.>>
>> Being called a 'heretic' is akin to a backhanded compliment. Ask Eris...
>
>Not really, in my peoples (jews) past we were burned at the stake for being
>Heretics to the word of Christ.

    Technically speaking, it would be impossible for non Christian to be
considered a Heretic.  Heathen, even, was generally reserved for Islam and
pagans.   Jews that would be burned as heretics would be those (especially
during the Reconquista of Spain) who converted publically but privately
refused to and were caught by the Inquisition.  It was usually the Great
Unwashed who persecuted Jews.  The upper crust almost always used them
extensively in the Middle Ages (a Christian was forbidden Usury until
relatively recently) xcept when someone wanted popular support for something
when Jews were a convenient scapegoat. 
     Ob trav...  hmm...  Something similar could be based on any govt type...
religious oligarchies and dictatorships especially.  Religious players
enthusiastically participating or (more likely) helping people escape and/or
thwarting the zealots.  

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:40:56 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@ALASKA.NET>
Subject: Re: Canon thoughts

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK wrote

> <<Eris wrote:
> Where and when did the *fact* of "peace maintained by squadrons of > huge Battleships" take hold? 

> IIRC it was in Supplement 8, Library Data, that the first mention of the
> Battle Rider/Battleship argument was mentioned. The tone was that the
> Imperial Navy had for a long time been using BBs, but in the last few
> decades had switched over to BRs.
> ton for ton, an SDB/BR has always been better, either because
> it costs less or has more teeth. 
> Until, that is, you start losing the battle. Now your BRs/SDBs have to
> either go to ground, find a fragile mothership and dock before it
> jumps (under fire), or surrender. Your battleships jump out, and live
> to fight again.

This may be why the rebellion caused such trouble.  One of the tones of
the rebellion; made most obvious in Survival Margin, the Rebellion SB,
and Hard Times; was that the fleets available to all combatants were
steadily shrinking throughout the conflict.  New ship construction could
not keep up with the losses.  This is what caused the end of the
rebellion & the onset of Hard Times.  If Lucan had still had large
fleets he might not have had Virus developed.

_If_ the Imperial Navy had not switched to the Battle Rider concept
their ship losses would not have been so high, the war would not have
been so harsh, Virus might not have been released & the Empire might not
have fallen.  Someone needs to give those Imperial Navy strategists who
developed the Battle Rider concept a good swift kick in the you know
where as it looks as if they made the whole Rebellion even worse.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 02:16:50 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Heretics and heathens

> From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
> >> *Why not get hold of a copy of FFS2 or FFS1 or the SOpM, all of which
> >> contain nice amounts of material which can be used to handwave
> >technology?
> >Cannot find it where I live.  About the only thing I can find here where
I
> >live is T$R.
> Bummer.  You can look on the web or newsgroups.  If you're not following
the
> threads u might want to stay away from direct ordering from IG.  : ) I
got an
> SoM at an admittedly hideous price, but it was all a question of how much i
> wanted it. I've just acquired Supplement 9: Fighting Ships for 12 bucks
> (including S&H).  That's not bad at all.  I've got a decent line on a trade
> for some of my old d&d stuff for the 2 DGP alien volumes.  Try
> rec.games.frp.marketplace.  Don't make any posts unless u want big time spam
> and/or got blockers ready : )

I have, but the problem is I live in a large town (Phoenix, AZ) and the
only stores that carry gaming stuff in my area carry only T$R.  In order to
get Palladium I have to drive across town.  When I got my MT stuff I was
back home in Decatur, IL & drove to Bloomington, IL to buy it there.

> >> *You wrote:
> >> << Heck, I was even called a Heritic <sp> by a lurker on the list.>>
> >> Being called a 'heretic' is akin to a backhanded compliment. Ask Eris...
> >Not really, in my peoples (jews) past we were burned at the stake for being
> >Heretics to the word of Christ.
>     Technically speaking, it would be impossible for non Christian to be
> considered a Heretic.  Heathen, even, was generally reserved for Islam and
> pagans.   Jews that would be burned as heretics would be those (especially
> during the Reconquista of Spain) who converted publically but privately
> refused to and were caught by the Inquisition.  It was usually the Great
> Unwashed who persecuted Jews.  The upper crust almost always used them
> extensively in the Middle Ages (a Christian was forbidden Usury until
> relatively recently) xcept when someone wanted popular support for something
> when Jews were a convenient scapegoat. 

Thank you for the information.  The Great Unwashed are still around & the
other day I was at the Rusty Pelican & a little (6 or 7 y/o) girl came up
to me & say the Yellow Star of David Armband I wear everyso often & asked
me "Are you a Jew?"
"Yes" I said.
"I understand that you worship the devil & like to kill babies" she said.
"What gave you that idea" I asked.
"My mommy" she said.
Well I walked out of there & on the way out I asked the Mother why did she
tell her daughter that.
She said it was what her Priest told her.
I could not think of a witty remark to say here so I just turned & left stunned.

It was sad really.  To have in this day & age the same things that the
Inquisition felt are still around.

>      Ob trav...  hmm...  Something similar could be based on any govt type...
> religious oligarchies and dictatorships especially.  Religious players
> enthusiastically participating or (more likely) helping people escape and/or
> thwarting the zealots.  

Well, I kinda like the idea of the Players being the Zealots.  Awhile back
a clerical career was posted that would do the job.  Now remember a zealot
is not a bad thing in & of itself, its how you use it, great for RP.  Like
a zealot of a God of Healing is a good thing, but a zealot of a God of
Death is a bad thing, esp on a starship in jump space with access to a
airlock.  Btw, this did happen once in a MT game I was in as a player.  I
thought the rest of the players were going to kill me for that. ;<)

> Gary

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:49:39 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Posting WD articles

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/30/98 09:49 AM

Leonard, Bloo, guys -

Thanks for the advice, but when I submitted the articles to WD I
effectively cut a deal on copyright with GW, and I'll stick by it. Looks
like I can post the stuff if I want to, so long as I make it clear it's
theirs. That's good enough.

Thanks again :)
Andy

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:31:04 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: +D-D discussion (aka Time of Death for Spacing)

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/30/98 10:31 AM

<<
> Either it works or it doesn't. Either it fits or it doesn't. Saying keep it as
> an option is looking for excuses to not use it.
Of course.  But if leaving out a rule "that works" speeds up game play, why
not make it optional?  This may be an excuse, but it is a valid one.
>>

To continue the not-liking-broccoli analogy, if I'm buying a meal at a
restaurant and the chef insists that there be broccoli, I want 'em on a
side dish where I can leave 'em out.

<<
> Instead, there should be straightforward arguments that it doesn't work,
> supported by logic.
>>

Umm... Sorry, but I still haven't understood how adding it would improve
the game, regardless of the detailed mechanics. Sure it gives a wider range
of damage results, but it does complicate the damage roll, even if only a
little. The group I play with, like myself, want this part of the game to
be fast and furious - so maybe this is a style-of-play issue.

OK, I've had my $0.02, I'll shut up now :)
Andy

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:32:59 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Decompression/T4.1 Hit System

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/30/98 10:32 AM

<<Glenn Grant wrote:
The fun thing with retractable claws, of course, is when you roll a
Spectacular Failure and they get stuck, extended.
>>

Eeeeyew. What if you're inside a vac suit when you do this?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:45:53 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Initial Colony Considerations

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/30/98 10:45 AM

For those who asked, here is a summary of the colonisation programme
outlined in Duncan Lunan's book "Man and the Stars" (Souvenir Press, 1974).

Lunan assumes that the planet in question is habitable without major
life-support, and has locally evolved life - what 2300 AD would call a
Garden world. This scenario isn?t necessarily perfect, but it does give a
useful skeleton to hang fictional histories on.

Evaluation (Pop level 2)
====================
Team of 20 (bare minimum) to 100 (preferred) landed on planet to evaluate
and prepare for colonisation. Stays for at least two local years before
clearing the planet for colonisation. Preferred team consists of:

40 scientists (meteorogoists, archaelogists, at least seven different types
of biologist, agronomists, astronomer, doctor, psychologist, linguist in
case of aliens, etc)

40 survival experts/guards

20 assorted technicians, engineers, and ship crew (the team?s starship
stays in orbit for backup)

During this period the team has to check how the proposed introduction of
alien species will affect local life, survey and assess the habitability of
an area the size of Britain, probably an island or peninsula (more
defensible).

Lunan assumes round-trip times of up to five years between Earth and the
colony, so assumes that many of the eval team settle there. Part of the
logic behind there being a hundred or more people is to give them a chance
of survival and growth if suddenly cut off from their homeworld.

(How about a THUDD contest for an evaluation team delivery ship? Should be
able to carry this lot and enough gear to run them for two years (a hundred
tons of stuff?), plus a few vehicles, and deploy them to ground level with
a couple of ship?s boats. Probably unarmed.

Maybe other THUDD contests for wave 1, 2, 3 colony ships...)

Wave 1 Colonisation (Pop level 3)
=============================
Aimed at agriculture, mapping and prospecting.

1,000 colonists. 900 farmers, 900 newlyweds (not necessarily the same 900),
50 military personnel, 50 specialists, including 10 teachers and 2 doctors.
The military are there to maintain internal discipline, not to counter
external threats.

These guys arrive between 2-5 years after the eval team, and have up to 5
years to work up the agricultural base to support wave 2, plus any children
they have themselves in the meantime. They are all trained in arms, mainly
so they can hunt - they have to grow their own animals from embryos and
don?t have time to domesticate local species. They also conduct mineral
surveys for the benefit of wave 2.

They are organised along communist lines, in a cell system for mutual
support. This does not reflect their politics necessarily, it?s just an
organisation that should work considering the basic unit of exchange will
be foodstuffs for the next 15 years or so.

Their tech level is probably 4-5 for the most part, as they need to be able
to maintain equipment themselves without a sophisticated technical base.
Odd items (weapons and medical gear) will be higher tech.

Lunan assumes that more than 1,000 people will be too hard to control and
protect, and that landing several dispersed groups each of 1,000 people
will lead to friction between them.

By the end of this wave, cultivated land and labour are at a premium; there
is a tendency to feudalism, which is very likely to win if the colony is
cut off.

Wave 2 Colonisation (Pop level 3)
=============================
Aimed at developing industry and mines.

2,000 colonists; miners, ore extractors, some more farmers.

They arrive between 7-12 years after the eval team. The cell system has to
phase out here - not sure from the book what replaces it. Their tech level
is probably up around 7-8, there are more of them and more opportunity to
specialise.

Wave 3 Colonisation (Pop level 3-4)
===============================
Aimed at stabilising the civilisation. Consumer goods start to be produced
locally, e.g. washing machines.

4,000 colonists; technical specialists and service people, plus more
farmers. These people run the light industries

They arrive 15-17 years after the eval team. By the end of this wave the
colony is self-supporting, at around tech level 8-9.

Wave 4 Colonisation (Pop level 4)
=============================
Aimed at expanding the colony.

Doubles the size of the colony at a stroke. This is so the newcomers can?t
simply take over, they have to expand. The second-wave children are now in
their late teens, and help to fuel the expansion. There are probably about
25,000 people on the planet after this wave lands.

Regular flights are now set up to the colony?s mother world, so a starport
is presumably built.

Enjoy -
Andy

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 02:47:41 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Gravity Shields

Well I'm not looking for a Black Globe shield, but a ship that might
layer 3 different wavelengths of intense focused graviton fields around
it to stop beams and kinetic weapons from damaging it.  It would be able
to manipulate the fields to create tiny corridors in which to launch
small one-man attack fighters from and act as a base ship for them.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 02:48:08 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Gravity Shields

Also, what are White Globe shields?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:17:12 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Brocolli - was +D-D discussion

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/30/98 11:17 AM

<<
The Hresh embassy on Dingir wishes to lodge an official complaint to the
Solomani racialists who are prejudiced against those of a vegetative
nature... ;-)
Dom (in jest)
>>

f it makes them feel any better, I've got coffee sprayed all over my
monitor now...
Andy :)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:23:26 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Wounds and Healing

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/30/98 11:23 AM

<<
"Ow - he shot me in the strength!"
>>

I have GOT to have an NPC say this next time he gets hit in my game. If I
can stop sputtering Pepsi long enough to get it out.
Andy

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:27:47 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/30/98 11:27 AM

<<
What feels arbitrary to me is the theory that Jump Drives are capable of
generating a huge amount of energy in an impossibly short amount of time
by consuming vast amounts of fuel. Yet, strangely, this process cannot
be used in "regular" energy production. How can that paradox be
reconciled?
>>

I have a mental image of a man in overalls outside a power plant talking to
a journalist who asked him this :)

"We don't use this for power plants, 'cos every time you turn the sucker on
it disappears into jumpspace for a week. At least, we think it's a week. We
haven't got one back yet. We don't think it can be more than 36 parsecs
away, though, so we should find it eventually..."

Andy :)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:30:31 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: +D3-D3

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/30/98 11:30 AM

<<
ROTFLMAO!!  That's a keeper!
>>

Prithee, kind sir, what dost thou mean? For I am but newly arrived on the
Internette and my Galanglic translator is an old model of no great
expense...
Andy

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:43:19 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/30/98 11:43 AM

<<HAL wrote:
One futher proviso however: the hydrogen used to create the bubble must
exit from hyperspace along with the ship - otherwise, our universe will be
losing mass every time someone jumps - thus seemingly violating the LAW:
convservation of energy...
>>

Excellent. So if realspace momentum is conserved in jump, you will jump
insystem and poof! an expanding cloud of hydrogen appears out of nowhere,
flying down your previous trajectory. You then make a course change and
exit the cloud. Some time later:

"Sir, I see their emergence cloud. When they jumped insystem they had a
vector of 233 mark 15. Judging by the dispersion, I'd say they've been here
a couple of hours."

"Damn. Tactical! Give me a furthest-on globe for a 3G ship with that vector
and datum, two hours on. Nav! Give me a limiting cone of approach..."

"Sir! I've got a weapons instruction! Waveform indicates mid-course
correction for a nuc-det missile in the two megatonne range! Incoming!"

"Damn! They can't have one of those, the new ship rules don't allow it..."

"Sir, they could be a Remnant from a previous rules system."

[static]

Sorry. That started out sensible, but I couldn't help myself :)
Andy

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:24:46 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on jump drive

"Legate" <legate@futureone.com> writes:
>>Actually, what he is talking about is listed in CT-High Guard (revised,
>>1980) on pg.39, under "Breaking Off:"
>>"Jumping: A ship which breaks off by jumping must have a destination and
>>enough fuel to get there. It must expend energy points equal to two turns
>>output from a power plant ... ."
>>Later, under "The Black Globe" (pg. 43) it states:
>>"If a ship absorbs enough energy to make a jump, and is supplied with
>>sufficient fuel, it may jump at the end of the turn."
>
>Thank you for the rule, but if you have the power, why do you need the
>fuel?

That is exactly the problem. Why do you need the fuel? The CT jump drive
had the following characteristics:

1)	ALL jump fuel was used BEFORE the ship entered jump space
	(Evidence: Drop tanks).
2)	A jump drive of a given sized required a power plant of a given
	minimum size.
3)	The capacitors of a jump drive held a comparatively small charge
	(I don't have the books here, so I can't give the exact figures,
	but they can be calculated from the Black Globe absorbtion rules).
4)	Even if all energy was applied from outside, you still needed jump
	fuel to initiate the jump.
5)	The hydrogen used for jump fuel had to be in pure form rather than
	as a compound like water or ammonia (Both of which gives you more
	hydrogen per volume).

Now, some of those things were changed in MT, and I'm not going to try to
fit the MT version into the explanation. I don't know exactly how FF&S2
explains it, but the explanation that I came up with is that very little
of the jump fuel is turned into energy. What little that is (enough to
fill the capacitors) is enough to create the jump bubble, to open the
interface into the jumpspace dimension, and to propel the ship into
jumpspace.

However, there is a problem. Do you know that if you hit water with
sufficiently high speed, the result is exactly the same as if you'd hit
a solid surface? The water don't have time to move away and is as rigid
as steel for a brief instant. In the same way jumpspace is too dense for
a ship just to slip across the interface. So the ship projects a bunch
of hydrogen into jumpspace ahead of itself. This creates a bubble (a bad
choice of word, perhaps, because it can be confused with the jump bubble
that is created by powering the jump grid, so let's say opening instead).
It creates an opening for a brief moment where the ship can enter
jumpspace. Once inside jump space there is no need for more hydrogen to
keep this space open, since the ship is already inside. The jump bubble
is maintianed by the power plant (that's why you need a power plant of
a certain size).

As for why you need more hydrogen to make an opening into higher
jumpspaces, those higher jumpspaces are denser and requires more to
create the same sized opening.

Using completely pure hydrogen creates a predictable environment and
allows the computer to predict the jump exactly. Impurities in the
hydrogen introduces unpredictable variables. Mostly ithe jump goes
all right anyway, but once in a while it creates a misjump.

As I said before, this explanation is not perfect, but it is IMO the best
one yet that explains the 5 points above without opening up undesirable
corrolaries.

Oh, yes, one last point: Why would they call it jump fuel if it isn't
used for fuel? Well, a little bit of it IS used for fuel, and the very
same substance is used to fuel the power plant, so for convenience it
is all called fuel rather than distinguish between the part that is used
for fuel and the part that is used for "access mass".

>>Of course, this brings up that whole "what is the jump fuel for, anyway?"
>>question again. If you have the fuel but not the energy to initiate the
>>jump, then you can't jump. It seems to cotradict the high-throughput
>>reactor theory, for instance. I don't like the "it's used to maintain the
>>jump bubble" idea, either.

I agree. It oosen't fit with the fact that all jump fuel is used up before
the jump.

>>On GURPSnet, one proposal was that the hydrogen
>>was used as some sort of FTL reaction mass,

Same problem. All the fuel is used before the jump.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #72
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Friday, January 30 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 073



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Heretics and Heathens
Canon thoughts
Tasks and such
Re: A FF&S Question
Re: Jump Gates
Re: A few Digests of Replies...
Ramscoops etc.
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive - Heading off topic
Re: +D-D Discussion (renamed)
solar sail ships
old tramp frieghters
Re: THUDDD 8 comments (was: Thudd 9)
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Battleriders v. Battleships
Re: HG size limit
Re: Battleriders v. Battleships
Re: Sorry state of affairs ...
Re: XTML down?
Re: Canon thoughts
Re: Jump Gates
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Posting WD articles
Re: Gravity Shields

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:56:11 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Heretics and Heathens

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/30/98 01:56 PM

<<Legate wrote:
Thank you for the information.  The Great Unwashed are still around
>>

I believe it. For years, my father-in-law (himself tolerant of other
religions - he let me, a foreign heretic, marry his daughter) would
occasionally test people's views on this matter by saying: "I think they
should kill all barbers and Jews."

He reports that the most common answer he got was "Why barbers?"

Scary, isn't it?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:04:00 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Canon thoughts

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/30/98 02:04 PM

Peter Newman wrote:
<<
_If_ the Imperial Navy had not switched to the Battle Rider concept
their ship losses would not have been so high, the war would not have
been so harsh, Virus might not have been released & the Empire might not
have fallen.  Someone needs to give those Imperial Navy strategists who
developed the Battle Rider concept a good swift kick in the you know
where as it looks as if they made the whole Rebellion even worse.
>>

Thank you. That's a good scenario idea - I occasionally run time travel
adventures - and another way to switch out of the TNE universe when I want
to.

"Your mission, gentlemen, should you decide to accept it, is to return to
Depot/Core in 1088 and assassinate Lev Sturrlinat, the inventor of the
Battle Rider concept, before he can get this doctrine widely accepted."

(Yes, I know this will cause a paradox or two. That's what makes the time
travel adventures fun.)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 08:13:47 -0500
From: "Glenn Crawford" <glennc@nelvana.com>
Subject: Tasks and such

Earlier this week I posted a thought balloon about extra dice.

I have a use now!

Dice pools.

As an example, let us say you have tactics 3. This gives you 3 extra dice to
roll at any time in the combat. In this example you have a 3D task and total
asset of 10. The roll is 4,5,5 for 14. You failed, but then you say I spend
2 tactics dice and you roll a 2 and a 3. With this you take the lowest
numbers (2,3,4) on the required number of dice (3). Now the roll is 9. You
succeed due to your tactical savvy.

For strength bonuses in hand to hand. All melee weapons would have a minimum
and advantageous strength. If you did not have at least the minimum you
would roll an extra die on the damage check and take the lowest. And vice
versa for advantageous. You expend one strength pool for each swing. You
would have to expend a number of strength pool dice equal to the base damage
of the weapon to get a bonus die. There, of course, would be a maximum
number of extra dice, equal to the original dice. When you have exhausted
your strength pool you take a penalty to damage

eg.
Knife Str Min 4/Adv 8, Dmg 1D (max 2D)
Sword Str Min 6/Adv 11, Dmg 2D (Max 4D)

THus Wimpy Will (Str 3 could get a bonus die by spending one from his
strength pool, bring him to normal damage, since he takes a penalty due to
his pitiful strength)
When he uses a sword he can spend two of his dice to get a bonus die, and
the one for the swing. On this roll he gets 2D (base damage) plus a bonus
die (spent pool) minus a die (for weak strength) for a net total of 2D. The
next turn he takes a penalty for his weakness, another for his exhausted
strength pool, so he rolls 4D and takes the lowest 2.

Big Bill (Str 13) swings his sword and decides to put extra effort into it.
He expends 4 for the effort of the sword (2 strenght pool for each bonus
die) and one for the swing but he rolls 2D (base damage) + 2D (extra effort)
 + 1D (high strength) for 5D and he takes the best two. 

Any comments?
Questions?
Does this make sense?
(I am typing this at work, so I have to hurry)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 20:12:17 +1200
From: frankie@mundens.gen.nz (Frank G. Pitt)
Subject: Re: A FF&S Question

In article <0725659B.00829440.00@lancelot.develop.avalon.com>,
scharlto@ifsna.com wrote:
>
>Yes.  Specifically, the M-1, the M-60, the M-113 and some other NATO and
>WarPac AFVs.  This was done as part of the FFS2 playtest effort.  Some of
>the results showed up in Emperor's Vehicles.
>
>As to how they compared to real-worl objects: Without the combat rules. it
>was a tad difficult to tell.  It looked like the weights were OK, but the
>armor values (assuming actual armor thickness) seemed rather low.  Alos,
>there were some challenges in the engine area; the power plants sized a
>little big, and ended up a little too fuel-thirsty.

But does either FFS allow a 40hp Volkswagen Beetle  ?

That's aways my test of a vehicle design system.
:-)

Striker failed miserably.

- -- 
Frankie

Frank G. Pitt | When in doubt, wash | fun:    frankie@mundens.gen.nz
Wellington    |   (Orlando)         |         frankie@ibm.net 
New Zealand   |                     | profit: fpitt@nz1.ibm.com
    

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 20:05:41 +1200
From: frankie@mundens.gen.nz (Frank G. Pitt)
Subject: Re: Jump Gates

In article <0725659B.00838CEE.00@lancelot.develop.avalon.com>,
scharlto@ifsna.com wrote:
<snip>
>At the time, the idea about using jump fuel as displacement matter in jump
>had not occurred to me; I thought it was strictly for a quick energy boost
>from a jump-specifc power plant.
>
>Of course, at a certain point I part ways with canon anyway, so its just
>one more difference between my game and "vanilla" Traveller.
>

It's not really non-canon. The Gazelle class close escort and numerous
other vessels from the CT period had L-hyd drop tanks, allowing
them the additional fuel and lower mass to boost their Jump capabilty.

All the "Jump Gate" does is replace the drop-tank with a
"droppable" space station.

Personally, I think it makes a lot of sense, especially for
low tech spacefaring societies. It gives a Babylon 5 or
(for the oldies) a StarForce/Outreach, feel to  the environment.

Frankie

Frank G. Pitt | When in doubt, wash | fun:    frankie@mundens.gen.nz
Wellington    |   (Orlando)         |         frankie@ibm.net 
New Zealand   |                     | profit: fpitt@nz1.ibm.com
    

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 20:17:31 +1200
From: frankie@mundens.gen.nz (Frank G. Pitt)
Subject: Re: A few Digests of Replies...

In article <3.0.5.32.19980129160004.009c4e90@47.125.128.13>,
Andy Lilly <a.s.lilly@nortel.co.uk> wrote:

>>In most publishing, if a company buys "all rights", they *pay* for it,
>>through the bleeding nose. This is because, literally, the author has *no*
>>rights to an article once it is turned in (note that this does *not* 
>>necessarily mean that he cannot use the ideas again, or the research, but 
>>it had better be in a *very* different article).
>
>Ever seen an IG contract? I believe one is required to sign in your own
>blood and donate one major organ for the honour of signing over all rights
>to everything. And I'm assured (from other friends who write for the RPG
>industry) that IG do not "*pay* for it", i.e. their fees are hardly
>extravagant. :-)

Yeah.

Just thought I'd comment that IG's policy in this regard is
what prevented nme from even considering sending in any work
for JTAS. (Not that that's neccessarily a great loss)

Ain't no way I'm giving a company total copyright
over a work (even if they don't use it) for _nothing_
which is basically what the submission rules stated


- -- 
Frankie
    

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:32:28 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Ramscoops etc.

"Richard A. Flores" wrote

>>This provoked me to dig out the book from the depths of my shelves. It's
>>got pictures too ;-) and a hell of a big section on ramscoop ships.
>
>Now he tells us!  :-)
>
>I'm still interested.

The books details are as follows -
"Man and the Stars" by Duncan Lunan
First pub Souvenir Press 1974 (UK)
Corgi Edition 1978
ISBN 0 552 10791 3

The book is a discussion of some speculative work by ASTRA, a Scottish group.

Contents
Introduction

Part One: The First Phase of Interstellar Colonization, Out to Twelve
Light-years

A. The"Forseeable" Mission
1: Will There Be Suitable Planets?
2: WiIl There Be Suitable Ships
3: Life, As We Know It
4: Is Your journey Really Necessary?

B. The "Acceptablen Mission (Danger, High Speculative Content)
5: Who Will Go to the Stars, and Why
6: The Colonization Program
7: The Second Phase: An Interstellar CiviIization

Part Two: Contact with Other Intelligence

A.Theory
8: Are We Mentally Prepared?
9: Contact on Our Terms
10: First Contact After Landing
11: They Find Us

B.Application
The News from Bootes
Did Anyone Follow It up?
Is Anyone Here now?

You may also want to consider looking at

"Galactic Matter and Interstellar Flight" RW Bussard
Astronomica Acta Vol 6 pp179-194 (I haven't read this one)

or

Space Travel - a writer's guide to the science of interplanetary and
interstellar travel.
Ben Bova with Anthony R Lewis
Writers Digest Books
$US 16.99

Although this concentrates more on interplanetary stuff.

(The book World Building, in the same series is also excellent, and Aliens
and Alien Societies isn't bad.)


Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 08:25:30 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive - Heading off topic

 "Legate" <legate@futureone.com> wrote:

>> *You wrote:
>> << Heck, I was even called a Heritic <sp> by a lurker on the list.>>
>Not really, in my peoples (jews) past we were burned at the stake for being
>Heretics to the word of Christ.

Perhaps I should have said "In the context of the Traveller Mailing List,
and the discussions on Traveller Canon, being called a 'heretic' is akin to
a backhanded compliment. Ask Eris..." That would have been more specific to
the meaning I wanted to convey. It wasn't meant to be a comment on real
world history.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 08:28:55 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: +D-D Discussion (renamed)

"Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> wrote:

>Marc said:

>>Does this mean the +D -D will be an option the player selects?

>Have you ever tried to run a campaign using a rule the players don't like?

Marc didn't say that. I did - I asked Marc that ... ;-)

Dom

PS Not for long would be the answer to your question...

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 08:54:37 -0500
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: solar sail ships

Mitch (ted7) Schwartz had designed a solar sail racing yacht and came up
with some rules for intra-system races.  Design was done using FF&S v1.

I'll hit Mitch up for a copy to post to the list.


- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -------
eclipse@ultranet.com - Opinion stated are mine -
http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse
Ohnosecond - That miniscule fraction of time in which you realize that
you've just 
made a BIG mistake.  Seen in Elizabeth P. Crowe's book The Electronic
Traveller.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:00:47 -0500
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: old tramp frieghters

On the subject of old ships (forgive me for digging up old threads, but I
working my through a backlog of old TML digests), a great example was the
Orrimot.  An old Villani design.  Complete with Fission reactors, hampster
cages for gravity, and a flight computer that you had to load jump data on
using *tapes*!

I've got the specs squirreled away on my home system somewhere.  If someone
has 'em, please post for general list amusement.


- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
Joan of Arc: the patron saint of welders http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:51:24 +0000
From: Phil Kitching <PhilK@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: THUDDD 8 comments (was: Thudd 9)

>The problem is that I suspect that the Caravel and a couple of the other
>designs don't add up correctly (in price and other variables).  Given the
>amount of time I spend on other aspects of the THUDDD contests already, I
>simply don't have time to go over each design for its technical validity;
>I've been counting on list discussions to bring this out during the voting
>period.

I put together a minimalist design to act as a baseline against which to
compare the entries. (The Postmark Design Bureau was unfortunately
unable to submit a design due to a high priority order (a ship for my players)
and I got the dates all wrong :-(

Assuming no fundamental problems with Andy's spreadsheet (and since all
the expensive stuff (eg jump drives) is correct, I expect none,
then I would suggest that merchants can be built for 10std/MCr.
weapons/armour/thrust/semsors/computers/jump/power factors all point
to larger ships being more cheaper per ton carried.

I think that the problem is most of the merchant designs around are a bit
too role-playing driven and not cost driven, so are far too expensive.
Especially in established, safe areas.

With this revision, the cost differential between military and civilian ships
heads towards 10:1, which, IIRC, was what some members of the list wanted
last year.

>However, that hasn't been happening to the extent I'd expected.  Would
>anyone care to form the "ISBA Technical Review Board" to go over the
>designs soon after I announce them, and announce any problems found to the
>lists?  Perhaps authors could submit their designs to the Board for
>confidential vetting before the entry deadline, as well.

Yes. This is probably a foolish commitment, especially since members
would have to get designs done before they vetted other peoples or
not enter at all (I could certainly achieve option 2).
- --
  Mailto:Philk@btinternet.com (don't blame BT - they only pay me:)
  Why shoot at a Vargr ship without warning?
  If the captain doesn't put his head out of the window, it must be a
  pirate trying to achieve surprise :)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 07:13:12 PST
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

Dom wrote:

<< Ok, how about this:  add 1D to the normal damage roll, add them up, 
then roll 1D that you subtract.>>
>
>I like this. I'll implement it.
>
>Marc>>

<Hey Marc,

It's a shame you didn't suggest that one first ;-)

Dom>


That's what the list is all about.  I think its great that we can 
discuss the + and -'s (!) before it becomes the rule!  (or canon!)  :-)


The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:16:51 -0500
From: ringrose@ascent.com
Subject: Re: Battleriders v. Battleships

One thing I haven't heard anyone mention in the BR vs. BB debate:

If you have a tender which jumps several BR into a system, it all
arrives at the same time.
If a group of BB jumps into a system, they'll arrive spaced out and
risk defeat in detail.

	- Robert Ringrose
	  ringrose@ascent.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 07:45:11 PST
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: HG size limit

HG sizes for computers (from the chart on page 26 HG....

Model       MCr  Ton   Capacity Ship  TL  EP

1            2     1     2/ 4     6    5   0
1fib (A)     3     2     2/ 4     6    5   0   
1bis (R)     4     1     4/ 0     6    6   0
2            9     2     3/ 6     A    7   0
2fib (B)    14     4     3/ 6     A    7   0
2bis (S)    18     2     6/ 0     A    8   0
3           18     3     5/ 9     D    9   1
3fib (C)    27     6     5/ 9     D    9   1
4           30     4     8/15     K    A   2
4fib (D)    45     8     8/15     K    A   2
5           45     5    12/25     P    B   3
5fib (E)    68    10    12/25     P    B   3
6           55     7    15/35     R    C   5
6fib (F)    83    14    15/35     R    C   5
7           80     9    20/50     Y    D   7
7fib (G)   100    18    20/50     Y    D   7
8          110    11    30/70     -    E   9
8fib (H)   140    22    30/70     -    E   9
9          140    13    40/90     -    F  12
9fib (J)   200    26    40/90     -    F  12 

Note:  Capacity indicates CPU/storage; Ship is the ship
requiring this computer as a minimum; TL is tech level.
EP is the computer energy point requirement.


<<<<Subject: HG size limit
Reply-To: traveller@mpgn.com

Hy folks,

even If I'm a TNE freak, I like adopting rules from other sources.
I think to remember that HG had a tl-computer-size limit table.
Can anybody who have it, be so nice to type it in (6 rows are
not much ;-) and to post it here.>>>>>


The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:50:07 +0000
From: "Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" <trrkt@friko.onet.pl>
Subject: Re: Battleriders v. Battleships

On 30 Jan 98, ringrose@ascent.com disseminated foul capitalist 
propaganda by writing:

> One thing I haven't heard anyone mention in the BR vs. BB debate:
> 
> If you have a tender which jumps several BR into a system, it all
> arrives at the same time. If a group of BB jumps into a system,
> they'll arrive spaced out and risk defeat in detail.

On the other hand, a tender arrives at the same time, so is 
vulnerable to one attack that will destroy it. And group of BBs can 
jump into system from two or three directions at once - first group 
will draw the defenders away, and the other raiders rain Flaming 
Plasma Death(TM) on the cities downbelow... <girn> 


Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@friko.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike; 
Amber fan and Star Wars junkie; UIN 6947998; WTF TKD; FIAWOL; YMMV; IMAO; SNAFU; TANJ
  Geek Code v3.1 GL/O d- s+: a19 C+++ W-(++) N+++ K? w(---) O@ M- PS+(+++) PE Y+ 
  PGP- !t--- 5+(-) X- R*+++>$ tv-- b++++ D+ G-- e h--*! !r-- !y-*
    YOU CAN TELL A POLISH WORKMAN BY HIS HANDS - they're always in his pockets.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:53:40 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Sorry state of affairs ...

- -> >And I'm assured (from other friends who write for the RPG
- -> >industry) that IG do not "*pay* for it", i.e. their fees are hardly
- -> >extravagant. :-)
- -> 
- -> From some of the postings on this list, it would appear that IG seems NOT TO
- -> PAY AT ALL for some of the content they publish.
- -> 
- -> Contract-law wise, that means they never really "purchased the rights."
- -> "Purchasing" implies timely payment for services or products rendered.
 From my understanding of US contract law, there has to be 
consideration if the contract is to be valid. If none has been agreed 
upon, the contract is not valid. If: as here, there has been 
consideration agreed upon, but on side is not fulfilling it's side of 
the contract, the other side can sue for payment or voiding the 
contract. However, do not, i repeat do not wait to long, because 
their duty to pay will not exist forever, at some point, if you don't 
sue, it will void by itself, you getting nothing, and IG keeping the 
rights! 

Ad Astra,
V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ------- check out: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061 --------
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --

- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:57:30 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: XTML down?

- -> Is the XTML down? I tried subscribing earlier but
- -> only got an error message in return...
Assuming you are reffering to the X-Boat mailing list: Yes, it has 
ceasedto be, gone to meet it's maker....
....mainly because it's prime reason for existance faded away with the 
event of T4
Ad Astra,
V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ------- check out: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061 --------
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --

- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 08:00:28 PST
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Canon thoughts

<<<Eris wrote:

Sorry I miswrote I didn't mean the AHL, I meant the Kinuur Class
Frontier Cruisers. And now that I think about them, weren't they even
smaller than 10,000 tons? 

Eris>>>

Kinunir Class was 1250 tons...

The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:04:19 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Jump Gates

Maybe one could see a jump gate as a possible means of transport for 
ships smaller than 100t, with a gate dependant drive. For larger 
ships the gate becomes uneconomical (higher fuel use, etc), so they 
don't use it. Maybe everything is top secret, only known to the 
highest imperials. Maybe the gates are there in those "*empty*" 
hexes! Who knows?
Ad Astra,
V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ------- check out: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061 --------
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --

- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:06:43 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Legate wrote:

>Glenn Hoppe wrote:

[snip]
>> PS. I, like others, am offended by your tone and your arrogance. I ask
>> that you take the time to consider your words before hitting the "send"
>> button. Let's try and keep the courtesy and respect that is (usually)
>> present here on the TML.

>Well, I have just a few things to say about the Traveller RPG.  It is one
>of the best systems (ranks right up there with Palladium), but it does
>have one problem.  Jump Drive.

I feel safe to say that none of us mind you commenting on Traveller (that's
what the TML is here for).    All of us have parts that we don't like or
notions that we would like to see introduced into the game.  The key to
civil discourse in such a forum is consideration.  When I first started
playing Traveller (CT that is) 17 or 18 years ago, I didn't like the jump
drive either.  I still can't say that I'm overly fond of it.  But, it is
integral to what Traveller is.  If you want to use some other FTL system,
then you are not playing Traveller.

Of all the RPG's I have seen, Traveller has the best technology
systems/descriptions bar none.  Even in CT there was an attention to
scientific detail that made Traveller a cut above anything else available
(then or now).  With the introduction of Stryker (a forerunner to FF&S), you
could actually design vehicles that made sense.  There were parts that
weren't perfect, but when you try to simulate life that's to be expected.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:09:19 -0600 (CST)
From: Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com>
Subject: Re: Posting WD articles

On Fri, 30 Jan 1998 ASlack@synetics.co.uk wrote:
> Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
> 01/30/98 09:49 AM
> 
> Leonard, Bloo, guys -
> 
> Thanks for the advice, but when I submitted the articles to WD I
> effectively cut a deal on copyright with GW, and I'll stick by it. Looks
> like I can post the stuff if I want to, so long as I make it clear it's
> theirs. That's good enough.
> 
> Thanks again :)
> Andy

If you gave them the rights in exchange for pay and they don't pay
you, then they're in breach of contract and the contract is null and
void and the rights are yours.  You can't have a contract unless
there is an exchange of goods or services.

Bolie IV


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 08:11:12 PST
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Gravity Shields

- ----Original Message Follows----
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>

>> Hmmmm...it begins to sound like a functional description of Black  
>>Globe technology to me.

<<In part, but don't Black Globes attract weapons fire & this would 
deflect weapons fire.>>

No, they don't "attract weapons fire", they simply absorb weapons fire.  

When they are turned "on" (100%) they absorb all the energy and every 
shot hits (there are no other defenses active).  When they are on 
"flicker" they absorb energy from hits after other screens are 
considered...

or something like that...


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------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #73
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Friday, January 30 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 074



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Heretics and heathens
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: No, not a jump drive debate again!
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Wounds and Healing
Re: A FF&S Question
BB vs BR
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Decompression/T4.1 Hit System
Re: Gravity Shields
Re: Gravity Shields
re:Traveller-digest V1998 #63
Re: +D3-D3
Re: Thoughts on jump drive
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #63
RE: Traveller-digest V1998 #63
Pocket Empires Ideas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:18:13 -0700
From: Sanders <timmon@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Heretics and heathens

At 02:16 AM 1/30/98 -0700, you wrote:
>> >Not really, in my peoples (jews) past we were burned at the stake for being
>> >Heretics to the word of Christ.
>>     Technically speaking, it would be impossible for non Christian to be
>> considered a Heretic.  Heathen, even, was generally reserved for Islam and
>> pagans.   Jews that would be burned as heretics would be those (especially
>> during the Reconquista of Spain) who converted publically but privately
>> refused to and were caught by the Inquisition.  It was usually the Great
>> Unwashed who persecuted Jews.  The upper crust almost always used them
>> extensively in the Middle Ages (a Christian was forbidden Usury until
>> relatively recently) xcept when someone wanted popular support for
>something
>> when Jews were a convenient scapegoat. 
>
>Thank you for the information.  The Great Unwashed are still around & the
>other day I was at the Rusty Pelican & a little (6 or 7 y/o) girl came up
>to me & say the Yellow Star of David Armband I wear everyso often & asked
>me "Are you a Jew?"
>"Yes" I said.
>"I understand that you worship the devil & like to kill babies" she said.
>"What gave you that idea" I asked.
>"My mommy" she said.
>Well I walked out of there & on the way out I asked the Mother why did she
>tell her daughter that.
>She said it was what her Priest told her.
>I could not think of a witty remark to say here so I just turned & left
>stunned.

Give us all a break and take the Christian bashing elsewhere.

Paul

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:21:12 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

Legate wrote:

>> Given the expense of sending an STL colony ship I'd guess that the whole
>> ship would be used for something.  I also doubt that the colony would
>> have much to send back that would need a ship.  What I would expect is
>> that some part of the ship would be able to be converted into a huge
>> antenna to send messages back and forth.  If nothing else, the colony
>> would most likely generate scientific data that would be of interest to
>> the homeworld.   They may also wish to send STL data carriers back,
>> but these would be as small as possible.
>
>I can see your point, but what I was saying is that you can get the fuel
>cheaply & easily, so his point is off the mark.
>
>As to what a colony would have to much to sendback.  Well not at first, but
>say 50 years down the road, yes, the colony & the homeworld might be able
>to open limited trading.

In the original descussion, the trip out was to take a millinium.  After a
thousand years, who is going to remember that there was a colony?  Even if
they could get back just 50 years after establishing the colony, they would
be trading with complete strangers.  Consider how our world has changed in
the last 1,000 years.  Then try to imagine how a person from 1898 would do
trying to trade with us today.

[snip]
>> Bolie IV
>
>Legate
>legate@futureone.com
>http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm
>
>"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
>severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:30:07 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: No, not a jump drive debate again!

David P. Summers wrote:

> > We are trying to come up with a logical explaination for something that
> > doesn't have any basis in physical reality. It may just be that there is no
> > good logical answer that will explain all the "facts" and satisfy everyone,
> > because those "facts" just don't jive.
> 
> True.  But we are also trying to fit with previous background.  If
> you were tring to come up with an entirely new theory and didn't
> mind all that old stuff about lanthanum being critical, etc.
> then I would have no objections.  The jump bubble theory is
> OK on it's own, but I think it is better to teak the old theory
> than try and shoehorn a new into the canon requirement established
> for the old theory.

The Lanthanum grid was a new explanation at one time. There is no reason
why the grid can't coexist with the hydrogen bubble.

Here are some things that, imho, any jump theory needs to explain:

- - How does a ship enter jumpspace?
- - How does a ship travel once in jumpspace?
- - Why does a jump drive need so much Hydrogen?
- - Why is a jump 168hrs +/- 10%, no matter what distance travelled?

Here's brief synopsis of how I explain them -- there he goes again!
Crazy Glenn and his jumpspace theories...

Note that I try and fit with the latest published "canon", while getting
a bit more specific. I believe it's a relatively simple explanation.
YMMV

- - A ship enters jumpspace by creating a special exotic particle field,
that surrounds the ship. This field "pinches" the ship out of normal
space, allowing it to enter jumpspace.
- - Before entry, the ship's computer calculates the energy and particle
density required to allow it to reach a destination.
- - This particle field is created by a reaction in the ship's Lanthanum
grid, initiated and energized by the Jump drive proper.
- - Energy from the ship's power plant is required to initiate the
reaction.
- - The reaction cannot be stopped once started, and requires 168hrs +/-
10% to come to an end.
- - The particle field needs to be of a particular density and energy,
depending upon what "level" of jumpspace is being entered, and the
distance the ship wants to travel.
- - In order to keep the particle density of the field constant, large
quantities of gas need to be released. The Lanthanum Grid includes a gas
release system.
- - This atmosphere surrounds the ship, and prevents the outside pressure
of jumpspace from collapsing upon the ship; keeping the exotic particle
field far enough away that jumpspace incursion does not occur.
- - Hydrogen is used because of its abundance, simplicity, lightness, and
relative inertness to jumpspace matter.
- - Jumpspace matter is composed of "Tachyons" -- the speed of light is a
*lower* limit.
- - Actual travel to the destination is therefore nearly instantaneous.
The time spent in jumpspace is merely a result of gradually allowing the
Lanthanum Grid reaction to terminate, resulting in a *controlled*
dispersal/collapse of the Jumpspace Field. The ship "precipitates" into
normal space at that time.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:35:27 -0600 (CST)
From: Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

On Thu, 29 Jan 1998, Richard A. Flores wrote:

> Bolie Williams IV wrote
> 
> >"I know his name..."
> 
> What is it?
> 
Fasil

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:02:08 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@m9.sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Wounds and Healing

> 
> How does this grab people?

I like it.. Anything to make things easier.. BTW.. you play corps, 
right? :) 
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com           http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

186,000 Miles Per Second;
Not only a good idea, it's the law!

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:04:04 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: A FF&S Question

>But does either FFS allow a 40hp Volkswagen Beetle  ?
>
>That's aways my test of a vehicle design system.
>:-)
>
>Striker failed miserably.
>
>--
>Frankie


Amazing coincidence - that is also my test system (I actually owned one once).
I havent tried it on VDSD 1.0 yet but I bet that it would work decently as
would GURPS Vehicles 2 ed.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:07:44 -0600
From: Matt McLaughlin <mkm@umr.edu>
Subject: BB vs BR

Something I played with in HG (CT) with some success was a hybrid
concept which is heavily dependant on tankers.  It's for use where the
present or future ownership of the system is in some doubt.  The BR's
have J-1 capability for retreat purposes.  The tender jumps in with
enough fuel in reserve for a J-1 out system to a deep space location
where it meets a (large) tanker.  With the 1-turn offload everything
rules, it should have plenty of time to get away.  If the BR's get in
trouble, they can meet the tender there and then boogie away.  A certain
amount of coordination is necessary, but it reduces the vulnerability of
the tender and the requirements that the BR's defend it, while
minimizing the extent to which the fighting ships are penalized by
having to armor and accelerate fuel and jump drive.  One variation was
droppable fuel tanks the same displacement as the BR's which could be
presstationed at the deep space rendezvous by the same tender.  This
would be more of a system defense forces retreat and regroup sort of
scenario.  Of course, locating a deep space iceteroid would be even
better, but this is for strictly defensive scenarios.

I never got a chance to try this in a TCS game, but it might be fun.

Has anyone tried anything similar with newer flavors of Traveller?

Matt McLaughlin

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:09:41 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

HAL wrote:

>Hello Folks,
>  Regards to the jump bubble theory and such...
>
>  One thought that crosses my mind (I haven't kept up with thead, so I
>apologize if I am going over ground covered) isn't so much the problem of
>using "dirty" fuels per se, as it is the effect that specific contaminants
>intrude into the "Bubble" itself.
>
>  The computer has to take into account all "known" variables (whatever
>those might be) and account for them before translating into the jump
>space.  Perhaps another reason why the "bubble" theory works so well is
>that contaminants alter the bubble in unpredictable ways.  Consequently,
>the misjump can occur, but the "program" generally is correct enough for
>it to work despite the impurities - until the one day the computer is off
>by .0001 significant figures somewhere, which causes the final calculation
>to be way off in light of the "impurities" unpredictability.
>
>  Also, what I'd like to see with respect to misjumps?  A removal of the
>concept that it can throw you off by up to 6 times the maximum jump
>distance possible (ie 36 parsecs).  To my way of thinking, if it can be
>acomplished accidentally, it should be reproducable deliberately.
>Somewhere in the CT universe, it is implied that Man can achieve a Jump 36
>using only a JUMP 1 configuration!

>  To "clean" this up, perhaps other alternatives should be sought for
>means of adding "spice" for the unpredictability of a misjump.
>
>Possibilities:
>Total destruction
>Jump sickness
>Damage to components
>  a) powerplant
>  b) sensors
>  c) jump drive
>  d) hull structure
>sanity checks
>Time duration in jumpspace is *longer* than 168 hours.
>
>  In all, the above mentioned seem more reasonable than being "warped" out
>in a manner the implies that there are more "undiscovered" physics behind
>the jump universe.  To be honest with you all, I wonder why, in 1,000
>years, no one has bent their scientists to the realization that if a jump
>1 ship can jump 36 parsecs on 10% fuel, using the drive configuration of
>jump 1 - to the idea of making it a reality?

Once could be an accident.  But twice?  No.  So the 36 above was no typo.
Ok, how do you figure?  What did you read that made you think you can get 36
parsecs out of a jump drive engine?  (I'm not being critical, I'm looking
for the spark.)

>  Well, enough on that.  Each GM can run their world as they see fit
><grin>.  If it ever comes to a vote regarding the "best theory" for
>jumpdrives, I would like to vote for the "bubble theory" - thus qualifying
>me for the name "bubble head" <Grin>.  One futher proviso however: the
>hydrogen used to create the bubble must exit from hyperspace along with
>the ship - otherwise, our universe will be losing mass every time someone
>jumps - thus seemingly violating the LAW: convservation of energy...
>
>   Hal
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:57:01 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Decompression/T4.1 Hit System

In mail you write:

>>> I can imagine a lot of interesting implants and body mods intended to
>>> increase vacuum survivability. For instance, those who live and work in
>>> space might have modified skin, or an implanted subcutaneous layer, which
>>> acts like the pressure garment in a VacSuit, to limit ebullism.

Actually, our skin is quite adequate to handle exposure to vacuum. It's
just that it needs some support against the pressure differential. It
can handle the "gas tight membrane" function of a suit on it's own.

That's where the idea of a "skin suit" comes from. It's basicly a
*close* fitting elastic leotard, with padding in the areas where the
body isn't convex. 

The problem is designing such a suit that fits tightly enough, but that
you can get into and out of. :-)

You also need a sort of "bladder" over the chest area to allow for
breathing. Anybody who has hung vertical in the water and tried
breathing through a snorkel knows how hard even a *small* pressure
differential makes breathing.

The nice thing about skin suits is that you don't need the fancy
cooling system. If you get too warm, you sweat, the sweat evaporates
and cools you. In space this works even better than in an atmosphere. 

At a higher tech level it ought to be possible to have the suit expand
so it's easy to get into, then shrink to the required tight fit. They'd
still need to be individually tailored, but this'd make them easier to
use.

Add another tech level or so, and the "fabric" may be sturdy enough for
you to do things like shower with it on. Spacers might wear them the
way you'd wear long johns. In case of an emergency, you'd pull out
"plastic bag" helmet and seal it to the neck ring. Then you'd attach
the gloves (you could operate without the gloves for an extended
period, but fluid accumulation in them would cause damage much like
frostbite (G. Harry Stine calls it "vac bite")).

So unless you caught a spacer while he was in the john or taking a
shower, he'd be ready in a matter of seconds. 

Oh yeah, I'd make the "bag" helmet designed so that it was still
possible to seat a proper  helmet while wearing it. That way, you'd be
able to put on a regular helmet while still in vacuum, and not worry
about accidentally damaging the bag.

For this to work, the air inlets need to be below the neck ring. And of
course, you wear a comm "headset", rather than having the comm gear
built into the helmet.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:48:57 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Gravity Shields

In mail you write:

> I was wondering, in high enough tech level, could a ship use layers of
> gravity as shields?  Would these waves of gravity be able to bend the
> trajectories of beam weapons and missles away from the ship?  what
> limitations would there be?  And how would this effect the ship in
> question?

For missiles, you'd need "gravity" strong enough to have an "inverse
escape velocity" greater than the missile's approach velocity. For
beams, you'd need an "inverse escape velocity" of c. 

By "inverse escape velocity", I mean the speed that would be escape
velocity if the field was attractive instead of repulsive. 

In any case, you can see that this is *way* beyond available tech.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:14:14 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Gravity Shields

Legate wrote:

>In part, but don't Black Globes attract weapons fire & this would deflect
>weapons fire.

No, they only absorb the energy of incoming attacks.

------------------------------

Date: 30 Jan 1998 12:12 EST
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: re:Traveller-digest V1998 #63

I bought _Psionic Institutes_ yesterday and had a good
discussion with the dude behind the counter about Traveller
and RPGs in general.

He bought a few Classic box games, and MegaTraveller rules,
and never liked them so much.  He's thinking T4 might be
okay, though.  I told him the supplements were well done
(I forgot to mention book 2), but to not worry about the
new rules book until it's revised.

He was unversed in the Gospel of Traveller, so I witnessed
to him about the Good Old Classic Days, and the coming of
Meticulous Megatrav and TNE, and how I thought a decent 
job was done in the T4 "Classic Synthesis".

The Point:

We agreed that combat wasn't fast-paced in RPGs, and he
showed me an AWESOME solution.  It's published by some 
small game company, and consists of 

	1) a body outline, subdivided into small regions
	   (maybe 20 regoins)

	2) transparent overlays for shots at each range band.

Shots and swings are called, and the overlay is placed over
the body centered at the called location.  Dice are then
rolled to determine hit location.  Numbers are scattered  
around the overlay at calculated distributions (the dice
used here are percentile), and the resulting number shows
where the shot landed, whether on target, off target but
still a hit, or missing the mark.  It's clear for all to see,
it combines hit probability, called shots, near misses and
"oops, you hit his head by accident" situations.  This is
a wonderful system I think, one that any RPG could benefit
by.  The sales clerk said combat is swift in this system.

I didn't want to buy a rules book just for a body outline and
range-probability overlays -- but the idea is brilliant.

Anyone else see this system before?

Rob

P.S. Could such a system be applied to starships as well?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:26:47 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: +D3-D3

ASlack@synetics.co.uk wrote:
> 
> Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
> 01/30/98 11:30 AM
> 
> <<
> ROTFLMAO!!  That's a keeper!
> >>
> 
> Prithee, kind sir, what dost thou mean? For I am but newly arrived on the
> Internette and my Galanglic translator is an old model of no great
> expense...

Thou hast not met this long beast? Ah... Allow me to translate

Rolling On The Floor Laughing My Arse Off

Gentry of lower taste may substitute Arse for harsher words...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:27:41 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on jump drive

Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
<Access Mass stuff>
> As for why you need more hydrogen to make an opening into higher
> jumpspaces, those higher jumpspaces are denser and requires more to
> create the same sized opening.
> 
> Using completely pure hydrogen creates a predictable environment and
> allows the computer to predict the jump exactly. Impurities in the
> hydrogen introduces unpredictable variables. Mostly ithe jump goes
> all right anyway, but once in a while it creates a misjump.

Exactly so. This is much the same as the way I see it.

One thing people seem to skirt around is *how* the entry to jumpspace is
made. Sure, you need energy. I've heard words like "tear" a hole in the
space-time fabric, "tunnel" an opening, "pinch" the ship off ... etc.
How does the ship accomplish this?

I think you need some sort of exotic energy/particle "field" created
around the ship, this field "pinches"/"tunnels"/"tears" the field's
contents out of normal space.

But without the hydrogen "access mass"/"atmosphere"/"bubble", the
contents of jumpspace, having higher "pressure", collapse upon the ship,
destroying it.

How is this *not* a simple explanation? How does it break canon?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:27:46 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

David P. Summers wrote:
> 
> Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:39:17 -0600, Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
> > > Well, the problem is that you are trying have a drive and retroactively
> > > come up with reasons why it just happens to use fusion fuel without
> > > needing it for fusion.  That kind of thing always tends to (IMO at
> > > least) leave hokey or arbitrary taste in the mouth.
> 
> > Well, Hydrogen has zillions of other uses besides being a fusion fuel.
> > After all, it is the simplest, most abundant element in the universe. I
> > don't feel the jump bubble theory is arbitrary or hokey.
>
> The point is that the reason you want to do thing like  go to a gas
> giant to get hydrogen are clear if it's fusion.  It it's mass you
> want to jump into jump space, you suddenly need arbitrary reasons
> why it has to be hydrogen and not some material that, for example,
> take up less storage space.

I've never believed that it's *mass* that's required. You need an
"atmosphere" of gas.

The fact that it is the _simplest_ and _most abundant_ gas bears
consideration. I don't think this fact is arbitrary. Would you rather
use Neon? 

Here's a simple answer: _Neutrons react violently with jumpspace_ Sure
it's arbitrary. But so is the *idea* of jumpspace. The fact is, it is a
*simple* explanation that explains a *lot* about the Jumpspace Bubble
explanation.

That is why pure Hydrogen-1 (Protium) is used. That is also why you need
a hydrogen bubble of sufficient pressure to protect the ship from
jumpspace incursion. It explains why vast quantities of hydrogen are
required during jumpspace entry. It also explains why the amount
required is dependent upon the *volume* (not mass) of the ship.

It also explains misjumps due to impurities. To many impurities
(Deutrium, Tritium, other gases etc.) and a chain reaction could happen
at the jumpspace interface, working its way to the ship...

Occam's razor in action! One simple statement explains a lot.

> > What feels arbitrary to me is the theory that Jump Drives are capable of
> > generating a huge amount of energy in an impossibly short amount of time
> > by consuming vast amounts of fuel. Yet, strangely, this process cannot
> > be used in "regular" energy production. How can that paradox be
> > reconciled?
> 
> The idea that an effect that requires a large amount of energy
> also means that it makes it easier to put a lot of energy
> into it fits with our experience with nature (from equal
> and opposite reactions to the microscopic reversibility of
> physical processes).  The fact that you have to put energy
> into a huge sink to get things to happen means that you
> also have a huge sink to put energy into without melting
> yourself down.  To me this makes the point a lot more
> intuitive than arbitrarily fitting a theory to predetermined
> requirements.

Still, how do you get the energy into the sink fast enough, so that the
equipment doesn't melt down?

The problem I have with "incredibly vast amounts of energy are needed"
is: exactly how is this energy channelled to jumpspace? Since
energy/matter are equivalent, isn't the visible Universe losing entropy?
Isn't this a Bad Thing?

This is why postulating that a "moderate" amount of energy used to
create a highly exotic and difficult to create energy/particle field
around the ship -- and this field allows entry into jumpspace -- makes
more sense to me.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:31:18 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #63

Robert Eaglestone wrote:

>         1) a body outline, subdivided into small regions
>            (maybe 20 regoins)
> 
>         2) transparent overlays for shots at each range band.
> 
> Shots and swings are called, and the overlay is placed over
> the body centered at the called location.  Dice are then
> rolled to determine hit location.  Numbers are scattered
> around the overlay at calculated distributions (the dice
> used here are percentile), and the resulting number shows
> where the shot landed, whether on target, off target but
> still a hit, or missing the mark.  It's clear for all to see,
> it combines hit probability, called shots, near misses and
> "oops, you hit his head by accident" situations.  This is
> a wonderful system I think, one that any RPG could benefit
> by.  The sales clerk said combat is swift in this system.
> 
> I didn't want to buy a rules book just for a body outline and
> range-probability overlays -- but the idea is brilliant.
> 
> Anyone else see this system before?

A similar system is used in Babylon 5.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:50:40 -0600
From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1998 #63

On Friday, 30 January 1998 11:12, Robert Eaglestone
[SMTP:eaglesto@nortel.ca] wrote:
[snip]
> The Point:
> 
> We agreed that combat wasn't fast-paced in RPGs, and he
> showed me an AWESOME solution.  It's published by some 
> small game company, and consists of 
> 
> 	1) a body outline, subdivided into small regions
> 	   (maybe 20 regoins)
> 
> 	2) transparent overlays for shots at each range band.
> 
[snip]
> Anyone else see this system before?

Yes.  It's probably from _Millenium's End_ by Chameleon Eclectic (I
collect systems).  Its not a bad system, but it has some problems.  If
you miss your roll by (for ex) 15, you may still hit, but if you miss by
5, you may miss.  Part of this is offset by the firer choosing how to
turn the template.

A slightly better (IMHO) and quicker system is used in _The Babylon
Project_ (also by CE).  There is a hex overlay on the body outline.
Choose a hex on the body.  The hex you actually hit is determined by how
you rolled.  You may miss the hex you want to hit and hit another, but
that hex may still be a body hit.  (ie - you arm for chest, miss, but
his the leg.).  More details later, if you want.  I don't have my books
at work. :(

The only real problem about these things are the need for outlines for
each type of creature (or vehicle - GW had a similar system for
vehicles) and, maybe, for different poses or angles.  Not a bad idea,
but I never really liked them, being more conformable with a hit
location table (like in T2K).

- -Vanya                                                      UPP-8D9B85
Traveller ---------------- Science Fiction Adventure in the Far Future
Meyers-Briggs personality type:ENTJ              | vanya@partyline.net
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with."     | dmoody@bridge.com
Visit the Not-the-IG Pages at
http://www.stl-online.net/vanya/default.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:00:38 -0500
From: "Glenn Crawford" <glennc@nelvana.com>
Subject: Pocket Empires Ideas

Miscellaneous Adds to POCKET EMPIRES

Resources and Infrastructure: 

System Contents
For tech level 8 or less do not add planetoid belts and gas giants to the
resources score.  At tech level 9,  add only half the planetoid and gas
giant numbers (round up). Only add the full numbers at tech level A+.

Star Type
The star type modifier is added to the resources roll. This represents the
overall value of the system. Smaller stars would capture chunks of rock
rather than metal, new stars do not have any resources yet (still forming). 
Certain charcateristics of the world itself may increase the odds that
useful, accesible resources are available.

Freq.	Mod	
O	- 2
B	- 1
A	+0	
F	+1	
G	+3
K	+1
M	+0

Seq.	Mod
I-II	- 2	
III-IV	- 1
V	+0
VI	- 1
D	- 2

Larger worlds are more likely to have the metals needed  for development.

World Size
0	- 1D6
1-4	- 1
5-8	+0
9+	+1

These two fall under the category of accesible resources. As well, the needs
of civilization are best served by the easiest things to use.

Atmosphere	
0	- 2	
1-3	- 1	
5,6,8	+1
4,7,9	+0
A-C	- 1
D-F	+0

Hydrographics
0	- 1
1-9	+0
	A	- 1

This is ex post facto. A larger population would need more resources to
survive, so if there is a large pop[ulation, it indicates that there are
some resources at the very least. Infrastrreucture must be better at higher
populations or the population will suffer for it. 

Population	Res	Inf
0-6		- 1	+0
7-8		+0	+1
9+		+1	+2

Add tech level modifier.  In order to get to a given tech level some degree
of macro-organization exists. The resources bonus is based upon increasing
possible resources. The bonuses occur at simple machines, electrical power,
nuclear powr, fusion power and antimatter power.

Tech	Res	Inf
Level	Mod	Mod
0	- 1	- 2
1-3	+0	- 1
4-5	+1	+0
6-8	+1	+1
9-12	+2	+2
13-14	+2	+3
15	+2	+4
16	+3	+5

POCKET EMPIRES, Reality Check

For calculation of the GWP use the following reality rules formulae. Always
round down.


Effective Rating	
Infrastructure, Law Level	- 1/3	plurality  - 1/5 Law Level
Culture	+1/3 plurality	+1/5 Law Level

If this results in an effective rating of zero or lower, then treat it as a
one with a further penalty of 5% to the total economy per number below one.

These numbers are for GWP calculation only. Upkeep and maintenance is as per
the regular rules.

Demand:
Base=Population+DMs for infrastructure and culture. The roll for current
demand will be a 2D6 roll with the following modifiers. 

(Infrastructure/2)-3 (down)
(Culture/3)-2 (down)

2D6		Demand 
Roll		Modifier
2		- 3
3		- 2
4-5		- 1
6-8		+0
9-10		+1
11		+2
12		+3

The demand modifier will never be greater than the original demand. Change
any rolls that exceeed the base demand to equal the demand . Thus a demand
of 2 will never have a modifier of ±3, it would be treated as a ±2. 

Minimum Tech by Atmosphere
Atm.												TL
0																		8
1-3															7
4,7,9,D,E,F	5
5,6,8												0
A																		9
B																		B
C																		D

Figuring the GWP:
(P x T x I x ND) ÷ 100

P: Population
T: Technological level
I: Infrastructure
ND: Net Demand: If demand exceeds resources, then use resources minus the
demand in excess of resources multiplied by the starport multiplier. If
resources exceed demand then use resources minus the demand in excess of
resources multiplied by the starport multiplier.  In both cases, multiply
the excess number by the Resource Shortage/Surplus modifier
	
	Resource Shortage/Surplus modifier
SP	R>D	D>R
A	0.5	0.25
B	0.4	0.2
C	0.3	0.15
D	0.2	0.1
E	0.1	0.05
X	0.0	0.0

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #74
*********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Friday, January 30 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 075



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: Brocolli - was +D-D Discussion (renamed)
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
MSG from HQ
The ultimate weapon
Re: PBEM Task Resolution
Re: Gravity Shields
Re: Critical Hits and +D-D
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Thoughts on jump drives
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Mea Culpa and Cyberware
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Heretics and heathens
heathens and heretics
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
science ships?
Annic Nova Jump Drive:  SPOILERS
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Required Execution
Re: Battleriders v. Battleships

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:27:32 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

Hum, would they be there or not, even given the developement of jump drive.
I think it kind of depends on the location of the target world. If it is a
neighbor, say Barnard from Terral or Alpha Centauri, they probably would.
Think about the shock of giving up a millenium and finding out that the best
real estate on the world you were ready to colonize was already taken!

On the other hand. a world with newly developed Jump technology might still
use STL to colonize. Jump-1 technology requires the construction or
re-fueling stations or extra fuel to reach beyond that limit. Example Terra
in the First Contact era, needed to build a re-fueling site to reach
Barnard.

It might be more practical, concidering cargo space conciderations on those
early ships, to launch an STL ship, although I think a millenia is rather a
bit too long to travel to a nearer star, years naturally, decades probably.
Any way, the STL ships are used to establish the colonies at distance that
are impractical for the Jump ships. But by the time the colony is
established a re-fueling point or points can be built and trade developes.

I'd need to sit down and look at some of the numbers for STL travel times to
the nearer stars, and distances, but I think that this may be the way Terra
actually expanded before the First Interstellar War. Especially when the
distance of the none Terran Confederation colonies are taken into account,
colonies in Reaver's Deep and Dark Nebula Sectors, as well as out toward the
Rim. These seem like a bigger "leap" than can be accounted for by normal
Jump progression, even with Jump 2 or 3, when you concider the usable
planets in between that weren't colonized.

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com


- -----Original Message-----
From: Richard A. Flores <cybernot@gte.net>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Friday, January 30, 1998 2:24 AM
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech
Colony Ship


>Legate wrote:
>
>>Shadow wrote:
>
>>>Legate wrote:
>
>>>>why waste a good ship.  If you have the plans
>>>>for a jump drive, why not retrofit it with Jump Drive after you have
>>>>arrived?
>
>>>Because if you are sending an STL ship on a journey that takes a
>>>millenium, you don't *have* the jump drive!
>>
>>You would think that in that period of time they could develop jump drive,
>>but that is just me.
>
>You know, when this thread was introduced, I remember thinking that by the
>time they got there there would already be a fully developed colony, well
>into the mature level.
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:31:12 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Brocolli - was +D-D Discussion (renamed)

- -----Original Message-----
From: Richard A. Flores <cybernot@gte.net>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Friday, January 30, 1998 2:24 AM
Subject: Re: Brocolli - was +D-D Discussion (renamed)


>SD Mooney wrote:
>
>>Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK wrote:
>>
>>>Hmm. That looks rude, which is not my intent, so please let me clarify by
>>>analogy: I don't like broccoli, and I don't eat them. That doesn't mean I
>>>want to stop stores carrying broccoli, or stop other people eating
>>>broccoli, or think any the worse of broccoli farmers.
>>
>>The Hresh embassy on Dingir wishes to lodge an official complaint to the
>>Solomani racialists who are prejudiced against those of a vegetative
>>nature... ;-)
>
>Which leads me to wonder, how would a Hresh taste with cheese sauce?
>

I don't know, but for a price I know a crew of smugglers that would be
willing to get you a sample ;^>

Thanks for the adventure hook.

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:21:13 PST
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

- ----Original Message Follows----
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk

<<Excellent. So if realspace momentum is conserved in jump, you will 
jump insystem and poof! an expanding cloud of hydrogen appears out of 
nowhere, flying down your previous trajectory. You then make a course 
change and exit the cloud. Some time later:

"Sir, I see their emergence cloud. When they jumped insystem they had a 
vector of 233 mark 15. Judging by the dispersion, I'd say they've been 
here a couple of hours."

"Damn. Tactical! Give me a furthest-on globe for a 3G ship with that 
vector and datum, two hours on. Nav! Give me a limiting cone of 
approach..."

"Sir! I've got a weapons instruction! Waveform indicates mid-course
correction for a nuc-det missile in the two megatonne range! Incoming!"

"Damn! They can't have one of those, the new ship rules don't allow 
it..."

"Sir, they could be a Remnant from a previous rules system."

[static]

Sorry. That started out sensible, but I couldn't help myself :)
Andy>>>

Gotta Love it!  Glad I WASN'T drinking some carbonated beverage at the 
time....  It's OK Andy, sometimes the "reality" of it all just gets to 
us and we have to let it out!

The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:23:06 -0500
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@MPGN.COM>
Subject: MSG from HQ

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:25:18 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: The ultimate weapon

While reading one of the posts Re:  Some thoughts on Jump Drives, I had an
awful thought...

A recipe for The Ultimate Weapon of Mass Destruction

choose a hull (size and configure to the taste of the destroyer)
add a small computer (specialized for cybernetic application)
add minimal sensors
add impulse engines (if not launched by external apparatus)
add a 2 Td jump drive and 30% LHyd*
use all remaining space for armor

Once completed aim the UWOMD at a planet you don't like.  Program the
computer to activate the jump drive just before arrival w/o opening a jump
portal.  Make sure that you are sufficiently removed from the scene of
destruction, because it will be massive.

*I chose 30% because we know that a second jump can be initiated almost
immediately after the first.  A second would be risky and a third might not
be impossible, so we might be able to use as much as 30% before the engine
was destroyed.

This is the best argument I can think of for why jump drives are not high
speed, short duration power plants.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:17:24 -0600
From: iresources@juno.com (Vic&Amy Canada)
Subject: Re: PBEM Task Resolution

On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 22:31:03 -0500 "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
writes:
>I'm trying to start a PBEM campaign with my brother and a friend (the
>most I can handle).  But what to do to simlulate die rolling?  Are 
>there
>any untilities that will allow 2 people on the net see the results of
>the same roll?  We hope to use chat, but I don't trust him to tell me
>his die rolls, and he doesn't trust me.  We are brothers after all.
>
>Any ideas?
>
>Bloo
>

How about using ICQ http://www.mirabilis.com with MS Netmeeting.  Share
the die rolling applications and you would both see it in action.  You
could also use the "white board" to draw or describe actions.

Vic
iresources@juno.com
http://www.iresources.net
http://www.iresources.net/ifc
http://www.evidence.net


_____________________________________________________________________
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Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:16:13 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Gravity Shields

> By "inverse escape velocity", I mean the speed that would be escape
> velocity if the field was attractive instead of repulsive. 
> 
> In any case, you can see that this is *way* beyond available tech.

What tech level would you guess it to be?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:24:20 EST
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Critical Hits and +D-D

In a message dated 1/29/98 14:20:22 PM Pacific Standard Time, T4Aslan@AOL.COM
writes:

<< He can take at least one more shot before he'll go down.  I like the T4
 system for this better than TNE. Do you realize how many shots is takes
 to kill someone who has a value of say 40 or so for his chest.  Even 
 maximum damage from weapon with a 6d value only does 36 points of damage. >>

     I used to hate this for TNE/Twilight 2k also....but I have found what I
believe to have been on omission in the combat rules.  In T:2000 (1st ed) the
damage done by a weapon was 4*the dam rating of the weapon + 4d6 (at close
range)  At medium range it was 3*Dam +3d6, and so on down the line.  This gave
an M-16 (Dam rating of 2) the abilitiy to cause 8+4d6 at close range (12-40
pts, avg 22) PER SHOT, while an average character had only 30 pts to absorb
damage with (in the chest).  I believe this system was intended for T:2k (2nd)
as well as TNE, but was accidently left out (The combat rules for TNE are
almost word-for-word the rules in T:2k (2nd) ).  If nothing else, it certainly
works as an optional rule for those still using TNE...and maybe someone who
worked on the game can confirm my hypothesis??

Ed Jenkins (DustyLV769@aol.com)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:39:43 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

David P. Summers wrote:

>Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:39:17 -0600, Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
>
>> Well, Hydrogen has zillions of other uses besides being a fusion fuel.
>> After all, it is the simplest, most abundant element in the universe. I
>> don't feel the jump bubble theory is arbitrary or hokey.
>
>The point is that the reason you want to do thing like  go to a gas
>giant to get hydrogen are clear if it's fusion.  If it's mass you
>want to jump into jump space, you suddenly need arbitrary reasons
>why it has to be hydrogen and not some material that, for example,
>take up less storage space.

I believe the answer to that was given by Glenn,  "...[hydrogen] is the
simplest, most abundant element in the universe."  It's simplicity would
surely be attractive in calculating it's characteristics as a normal space
matterial in the jump bubble.  It's abundance will obiously make it less
costly to use.

>> What feels arbitrary to me is the theory that Jump Drives are capable of
>> generating a huge amount of energy in an impossibly short amount of time
>> by consuming vast amounts of fuel. Yet, strangely, this process cannot
>> be used in "regular" energy production. How can that paradox be
>> reconciled?
>
>The idea that an effect that requires a large amount of energy
>also means that it makes it easier to put a lot of energy
>into it fits with our experience with nature (from equal
>and opposite reactions to the microscopic reversibility of
>physical processes).  The fact that you have to put energy
>into a huge sink to get things to happen means that you
>also have a huge sink to put energy into without melting
>yourself down.  To me this makes the point a lot more
>intuitive than arbitrarily fitting a theory to predetermined
>requirements.
>
>> I guess everyone has their point of view when it comes to
>> believability...
>
>Clearly.

Undoubtedly.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:51:24 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on jump drives

David P. Summers wrote:


>Thu, 29 Jan 1998 14:54:19 -0800, Scott Ellsworth

>[Just for perspective.  I hope not to get involved in this part of
>the debate again....]


>[High throughput reactor.]

>> Consider - a spinal mount that uses extreme amounts of power can be fired
>> by one of these.  It is not that different than a CPC powered laser, save
>> that the energy amounts are so much bigger.  Even if it only fires once
>> every few hours, I suspect you still will be ahead putting a dozen of
these
>> in, as opposed to regular power plants, given the tremendous amounts of
>> energy involved.
>
>I'm not sure about that.  You take the fuel, powerplant space, and
>space for a weapon that can only be fired once an hour, and I would
>say you are going to be alot better off putting in more weapons t
>hat you can fire whenever you want.
>
>Unless ships can afford to carry extra weapons for occaisonal
>special shots, you aren't going to be that interested.

Ah, there's the rub.  I don't know about the author, but when I read this,
I thought of planetary defense installations.

>> As an alternative, why not put it in the bottom of a large heat sink, and
>> live off the heat for days.  This completely avoids the need for and use
>> for the regular fusion plants.
>
>It's not as simple as that.  We are talking enough energy to
>turn a heat sink into plasma (unless of course it's very large,
>but then you have to haul it around).

No arguments there.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:51:20 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

On Fri, 30 Jan 1998, Richard A. Flores wrote:

> >  In all, the above mentioned seem more reasonable than being "warped" out
> >in a manner the implies that there are more "undiscovered" physics behind
> >the jump universe.  To be honest with you all, I wonder why, in 1,000
> >years, no one has bent their scientists to the realization that if a jump
> >1 ship can jump 36 parsecs on 10% fuel, using the drive configuration of
> >jump 1 - to the idea of making it a reality?
> 
> Once could be an accident.  But twice?  No.  So the 36 above was no typo.
> Ok, how do you figure?  What did you read that made you think you can get 36
> parsecs out of a jump drive engine?  (I'm not being critical, I'm looking
> for the spark.)
> 

Because it's _one_ of the more benign consequences of a mis-jump. (1D6*6
parsecs in any direction) The problem with studying it is that it is
completely uncontrollable, and most misjumps result in the jump drive
going off into jumpspace and never coming back, or exploding.

Some handwaving theorists have said that it's likely that the jump drive
precipitates out into normal space in some form or another, most likely as
dissociated atoms somewhere along a 36 parsec path (again derived from the
1D6*6 rule).

kinda hard to study something when most of the time your experiment simply
destroys itself.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:53:02 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Mea Culpa and Cyberware

Ian Whitchurch wrote:

>The short answer is "Traveller doesnt do cyberware".
>
>The longer answer is that the presence of such things in members of society
>helped the fractionation of humaniti during the Rule of Man, and is
>therefore avoided by all right-thinking people, and discouraged by all
>right-thinking governments. Anyway, most to all the neccessary knowledges
>and technologies was lost during the Long Night.
>
>The 3rd Imperium is therefore down 2 TLs in cyberware, and it has strong
>social and political restrictions on it's use.
>
>The Solomani have fewer scruples, however. But rest assured SolSec will be
>keeping careful records on any privately-owned implants.

Ahem.

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/saypmpp.html

If I ever get out from under this audit and learn how to use power tools
and electrical thingies, I'm gonna build a mock-up.

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:07:11 -0600 (CST)
From: Don Stark <stark@glacier.nrlssc.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

> > >>>According to current (T4 and IIRC CT) technobabble, you 
> > >>>don't burn any of the fuel, it is used to create and maintain 
> > >>>the "real-space" "jump bubble".
> > >>I can't speak for T4, but this is not the CT explanation.  In fact,
> > >>the jump space sickness stuff in implies the "jump bubble" is
> > >>an electromagnetic field.
> > >Therefore, it can be created using only energy.  Such that 
> > >might come from a storage media.
> > Then why does High Guard say you have to have fuel in order 
> > to jump during break off?
> 
I have a question for all those involved with this tread -- there was an
adventure way back in CT, ( I think it was in a Journal article), entitled
Annic Nova. That ship used "solar collectors" to power its jump engines.
Once you charged up, you could jump. No Liquid Hydrogen was needed. I think
it used a solar sail to travel in system. Doesn't this technology negate 
arguments like the one above which hand-wave the need for hydrogen as a 
material component for jump, or is it just accepted that CT canon has been 
changed/evolved on this issue?

> 

- -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
                                |                                   |
Don Stark                       |           ,/7_                    |
                                |          /   _`,                  |
Naval Research Lab, Code 7322   |         (.)\) \|_                 |
Bay St. Louis, MS 39529         |          0    /^~'                |
- --------------------------------|                                   |
e-mail: stark@nrlssc.navy.mil   |                                   |
- --------------------------------|                                   |
Phone: (228) 688-4151 work      |              ' )( `               |
       (228) 688-4759 fax       |   ~~~~~~~~~~~''  ``~~~~~~~~~~~~   |
- --------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:02:07 EST
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Heretics and heathens

In a message dated 1/30/98 1:29:26 AM Pacific Standard Time,
legate@futureone.com writes:

<< I have, but the problem is I live in a large town (Phoenix, AZ) and the
 only stores that carry gaming stuff in my area carry only T$R.  In order to
 get Palladium I have to drive across town.  When I got my MT stuff I was
 back home in Decatur, IL & drove to Bloomington, IL to buy it there. >>

I used to live in Phoenix a few years ago...have you tried Waterloo games out
in Gilbert?  They used to have a lot of older gaming stuff...also used to do
the Game Depot in Tempe (right near the university) and there was a used
bookstore off of 7th and Camelback (can never remember St or Ave, but it's 7th
east of Central)  They buy/sell lots of used gaming stuff as well.

PS:  Where were you when I was out there looking for Trav players???  (1992)
:-)

Ed Jenkins (DustyLV769@aol.com)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:09:30 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: heathens and heretics

Ok... my lil dialogue on the heretics was supposed to have a humorous tone to
it.   It didn't come out.  I was trying to make use of all those history
classes i so enjoyed (Church History and the Crusades in particular have
always interested me).  
Of course, i can't believe any priest would say that... sure it wasn't a
Nation of Islam bubba? : )

Ob Trav.  Imagine some professor (i don't know if the other versions of Trav
have this profession...i don't think so) who jabbers on about all kinds of
stuff and manages to get a few people arguing.   Your players must come in and
save the professor and put down the riot. : )  Or maybe they help wack the
professor. whatever.  : )

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:22:00 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

TravelrTNE wrote:

[snip]
>Well w/ all due respect to you and your expertise at being a network
>administrator,  I don't think you or anyone else (save perhaps Nostradamus)
>has any clue in hell what a computer is going to be like in the 57th century.
>If u had been trained in the early 80s w/  no follow ups, u probably wouldn't
>know what the hell was going on now much less in 3700 plus years.
[snip]

No lie buana,  I was trained in the late 70's and early 80's (including some
pretty impressive historical background) and active (including teaching
others) for much of the 80's with the cutting edge technology.  Then I
dropped out during most of the 90's.  In December I had finally saved up
enough money to get a new computer, so I could get back into the field.  I
am constantly amazed at the changes that have occurred during just the 7 or
8 years I was not paying close attention.

Even back in the 70's I was opposed to including specific details on how
computers work in Traveller.  One of the things I like about T4 is that they
don't try to explain how, only what.

When I bought my new machine, I wanted a large hard drive.  I told the
salesman that I wanted at least a couple of hundred meg.  He looked at me
kinda funny and asked if I were sure.  Having given that look, I told him no
and would he not be so polite in the future and just correct my
misconceptions.  I have a 3.8 Gig HD and can see how that is not going to be
too big.  (I've had the machine for less than 2 months and it is already
over half used.)

I just found out I can compress the disk, so I'm not really worried.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:09:32 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: science ships?

    Is there any need for a pure Science ship in Traveller?  Are there the
"stellar anamolies" so popular in Star Trek?  What about nebulas?  Are there
any in Traveller?  Any rules for em, i mean...  I should imagine people would
be studying stars and stuff but by the time of the 3I there's probably an
awful lot known about them and thus less need to research.  Maybe low tl
natives being studied under IISS Interdict.  And theres always research
stations?  I see from Survival Margin that Antares (the star) is being studied
because its getting ready to nova or something like that, but are there any
other canon "science" missions?  
   Another thing i liked bout TNE... the survey rules. I'm sure Scouts
probably had this sort of thing, too.  
   Even assuming theres a role for a science ship, how would this spell out?
A couple labs and a few sensors of each type?  Sensors don't take up much
space so i don't see any real weenie ships.  Could probably mount em in a CL
and not notice it.  Well maybe the labs.  

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:31:36 PST
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Annic Nova Jump Drive:  SPOILERS

- ----Original Message Follows----
From: Don Stark <stark@glacier.nrlssc.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive


Potential Spoilers Follow:











<<Annic Nova>>
You are right about the use of solar collecters.  Travel in system was 
by means of push from a boat giving .1g.  We used this derelict for some 
time before we could afford something a little more predictable. IIRC, 
you had to roll a number of dice (?d) to determine the number of days or 
weeks required to collect enough energy....

I don't remember, but where did it store the energy?  Was it alien 
technology?

Greg

The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:38:15 PST
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

<<I just found out I can compress the disk, so I'm not really worried.>>

What you really need is the TL9 Compact-A-Gig.  Only drawback to this is 
it takes a whale of a lot of hydrogen to open the compressor...

The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:52:06 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Required Execution

Ian Whitchurch wrote:

>In Australia, I was under the impression that at an auction, a vendor was
>required to accept any price that exceeds the previously set reserve price.
>You can't just go "Nope. Not enough" once the reserve price is exceeded.
>
>The reason the rule is there is to stop players going "Nope. We wait until
>we make money" and getting a new roll each week on their speculative
>cargo.

When explained that way, I can see a point to it.  However, the explanation
of the trade process doesn't say anything about auctions or a reserve price.
I will consider implementing the special rule under an auction situation.
However, IMO, to be able to do that, the process should not take a week.  A
couple of days should suffice if there is a regular auction for speculative
goods.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:03:33 -0500
From: hal@buffnet.net
Subject: Re: Battleriders v. Battleships

>On the other hand, a tender arrives at the same time, so is 
>vulnerable to one attack that will destroy it. And group of BBs can 
>jump into system from two or three directions at once - first group 
>will draw the defenders away, and the other raiders rain Flaming 
>Plasma Death(TM) on the cities downbelow... <girn> 
>

Presuming that the enemy *happens* to be where the tender bursts out of
jump space.  There is nothing that says a ship has to arrive in system.  It
can arrive out system, manuerver insystem and take it from there.  In
addition. the ships can coast on a ballistic trajectory to conserve fuel if
needed...

     Hal

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #75
*********************************

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Traveller-digest      Friday, January 30 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 076



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

RE: Traveller-digest V1998 #63
Re: Jump Drive / Space / Time
RE: Thoughts on Jump Drive - Jump 36
RE: science ships?
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Wounds and Healing
Re: Critical Hits and +D-D
Traveller 2300???
RE: Wounds and Healing
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Critical Hits and +D-D
Re: Brocolli - was +D-D Discussion (renamed)
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: A few Digests of Replies...
Re: +D -D (was Re: Time of Death for Spacing)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:01:38 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1998 #63

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD2D8F.F7E81FC0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I've seen this system before, in a black ops RPG called Millenium's End (I
think).

Walt Smith
- -------------------------------
If at first you don't succeed, maybe skydiving isn't for you.

- ----------
From: 	Robert Eaglestone[SMTP:eaglesto@nortel.ca]
Sent: 	Friday, January 30, 1998 12:12 PM
To: 	traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: 	re:Traveller-digest V1998 #63

<<SNIP>>

We agreed that combat wasn't fast-paced in RPGs, and he
showed me an AWESOME solution.  It's published by some 
small game company, and consists of 

	1) a body outline, subdivided into small regions
	   (maybe 20 regoins)

	2) transparent overlays for shots at each range band.

Shots and swings are called, and the overlay is placed over
the body centered at the called location.  Dice are then
rolled to determine hit location.  Numbers are scattered  
around the overlay at calculated distributions (the dice
used here are percentile), and the resulting number shows
where the shot landed, whether on target, off target but
still a hit, or missing the mark.  It's clear for all to see,
it combines hit probability, called shots, near misses and
"oops, you hit his head by accident" situations.  This is
a wonderful system I think, one that any RPG could benefit
by.  The sales clerk said combat is swift in this system.

I didn't want to buy a rules book just for a body outline and
range-probability overlays -- but the idea is brilliant.

Anyone else see this system before?

Rob

P.S. Could such a system be applied to starships as well?




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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:25:57 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Jump Drive / Space / Time

Darth wrote:


>I don't know if this will help any, but here goes!  ; )
>
>There seems to be some concerns about the "scientific validity" of the FIXED
>amount of time a jump takes (approximately one standard week).  "Why the same
>amount of time for a Jump-5 as a Jump-1?"
[snipped and pasted in notes file]

I like the explanation.  Next time someone gives me static, I just give them
a copy of your comments with an expiation that it was written by an early
Terran theorist.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:10:03 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: RE: Thoughts on Jump Drive - Jump 36

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On getting Jump-36 out of a Jump-1 drive:

In Classic Traveller, a misjump would send your ship 1d6 d6's in a =
random direction - it didn't matter if you had a Jump-1 drive or Jump-6 =
drive, or if you used Jump-1 or Jump-6 out of your drive. You could go =
anywhere from one parsec to 36 parsecs (six on the first die, 6's on the =
six dice this makes you roll - a 1 in 279,936 chance, but it could =
happen. Fuel usage occurred at the start of the jump, before misjump was =
rolled, so your fuel usage was as if no misjump had occurred.

Walt Smith

- ----------
From: 	Richard A. Flores[SMTP:cybernot@gte.net]
Sent: 	Friday, January 30, 1998 12:09 PM
To: 	traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: 	Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

<SNIP>

Once could be an accident.  But twice?  No.  So the 36 above was no =
typo.
Ok, how do you figure?  What did you read that made you think you can =
get 36
parsecs out of a jump drive engine?  (I'm not being critical, I'm =
looking
for the spark.)

<SNIP>
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:12:47 -0600
From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com>
Subject: RE: science ships?

On Friday, 30 January 1998 13:10, TravelrTNE@aol.com
[SMTP:TravelrTNE@aol.com] wrote:
>     Is there any need for a pure Science ship in Traveller?  Are there
>     the
> "stellar anamolies" so popular in Star Trek?  What about nebulas?  Are there
> any in Traveller?  Any rules for em, i mean...  I should imagine people would
> be studying stars and stuff but by the time of the 3I there's probably an
> awful lot known about them and thus less need to research.  

Still, there is no substitute for actually going out there and looking.
That is what the IISS is for.  There is a very nice outline for a system
survey given in DGP's World Builders Handbook.

> Maybe low tl
> natives being studied under IISS Interdict.  And theres always
research
> stations?  I see from Survival Margin that Antares (the star) is being
> studied
> because its getting ready to nova or something like that, but are
there
> any
> other canon "science" missions?  

Stellar mapping (which is, I assume, mapping star positions in jumpspace
as well as normal space); system mapping; planetary geological assaying;
first contact procedures; biological surveys; journeys founded by
universities.

>    Another thing i liked bout TNE... the survey rules. I'm sure Scouts
> probably had this sort of thing, too.  
>    Even assuming theres a role for a science ship, how would this
spell
>    out?
> A couple labs and a few sensors of each type?  Sensors don't take up
> much
> space so i don't see any real weenie ships.  Could probably mount em
in a
> CL
> and not notice it.  Well maybe the labs.  

Except, you would also want secondary ships to explore many bodies in a
system at once, to increase the resolution of your sensors, and help
refuel; a large crew to be able to leave long-term survey teams on
planets; large storage spaces for lots-o-food and spare parts; cargo
space/low berths for storing samples being returned; at lease one of
each type of sensor available (and multiple copies of each for
redundancy); large amount of rec space for the crew (long months in
space can make you space-happy); extra fuel tankage; etc.  All in all, a
different philosophy from designing a warship.  Science ships will
seemingly be expensive, very space inefficient, and not well armed.

I am also interested.  Stay tuned for the incredible exploits of the
crew of the HMS Eddie Bauer.  The Bauer is a Magellan-class long-range
Scout ship.  She will be around 22000 dtons, with a fairly large crew
(back of the envelope calculations, details to come).  The PC's will be
the command staff.  The total journey is expected to last at least three
years.

The Bauer Files will be available on a soon-to-be created website,
starting with an overview of the Bauer, created with Mr. Akins'
excellent FFS2 spreadsheet, followed by deck plans and write-ups of its
mission.

- -Vanya                                                      UPP-8D9B85
Traveller ---------------- Science Fiction Adventure in the Far Future
Meyers-Briggs personality type:ENTJ              | vanya@partyline.net
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with."     | dmoody@bridge.com
Visit the Not-the-IG Pages at
http://www.stl-online.net/vanya/default.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:25:24 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Legate wrote:
> > Be careful applying logic to fictional constructs.  Hyperspace by
> > definition does not conform to our understanding of space so movement
> > through hyperspace isn't necessarily going to work like we'd expect.
> > You can have ships move at different speeds if you want, but it's no
> > more or less logical than having all jumps take one week.
> 
> Actually, we do have a theory about hyperspace & how it works & I will be
> the first to admit I do not understand it, but, until our TL gets to the
> point that we can test it, it reamins just that a theory.

Where is this theory? I've heard of no serious scientific theory of
hyperspace. Alternate universes, perhaps...

> Now, if you will note, I have only one problem with Traveller.  That is the
> jump drive.  While I will admit that it is possible that travel time could
> remain constant, I do not think so.  If that were the case, well then why
> does it take the same amount of time to go one parsec as it does six?

Because you're using a different dimension of jumpspace.

Think of it this way: Each layer of jumpspace is a "river". The speed of
Jumpspace Layer 1 is 1 parsec/week, the speed of J-2 is 2 parsecs/week,
the speed of J-6 is 6 parsecs/week, etc.

The Jump Drive doesn't actually propel the ship, it just provides the
energy to lift the ship off the bank of "normal space" and put it into
the waters of "jumpspace". The jumpspace medium propels the ship!

The drive rating is a measure of what "rivers" the jump drive can
access. Each Jumpspace dimension requires higher energy levels to enter,
and some are only accessible by uncontrollable misjumps.

<snip of erroneous analogy of jump-drives to speed of vehicles>
> This to me is illogical & the only place in which Traveller falls down.

It's not illogical at all, as long as you use a logical frame of
reference.

I say again, the Jump number is *not* a measure of the "speed" of the
jump drive. That may be the way 'warp drive' works, but the jump-drive
is what makes Traveller unique.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 20:28 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Wounds and Healing

In-Reply-To: <199801301700.JAA01126@m9.sprynet.com>

Tsykoduk,

> > How does this grab people?
>  
> I like it.. Anything to make things easier.. BTW.. you play corps, 
> right? :) 

Actually, no. I bought it when it came out, thought "This is brilliant!", 
and then forgot about it. Why, have I just re-invented the wheel?
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 20:28 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Critical Hits and +D-D

In-Reply-To: <460287d6.34d0fa3b@aol.com>

> I should be possible to kill someone with one hit, say with a sword(2D).
> Realistically you can kill someone with one hit of a sword or one shot
> from say a body pistol.  In game terms its impossible with out some
> sort of criticle damage system.  Just using maximum damage as the
> result still wouldn't do it.

Killing someone with one shot isn't that likely. Hitting somebody once, 
and then they die *from loss of blood* sounds much more realistic (see my 
earlier post). Also note that average damage from a 2d weapon will knock 
out an average person, which is as good as dead.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:27:18 -0600
From: Robert Dittrich <dittrich@conceptserv.com>
Subject: Traveller 2300???

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I recently ran across some items in a local used book store for a game =
called Traveller 2300. On this list, I usually hear about CT, MT, TNE =
and T4. I confess to being ig-nernt about all the permutations (having =
stuck fiercely to CT). What possible value (if any) would this hold for =
me (even if only in trade value for CT items)?

- - Rob Dittrich

p.s. And now courtesy of my company's insistence upon "user-friendly" MS =
applications -=20
HAVE A LITTLE BINARY, SCARECROW!
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 20:28 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: RE: Wounds and Healing

In-Reply-To: <199801292231.QAA25102@gatekeeper.uniden.com>

Miller,,

> > Types of Damage
> > 
> -------Uh-oh, additional damage category - this could get ugly...

T4 already has 'non-lethal' damage. 

> ----------> Been reading a FASA product lately, have we? 
> (for the uninitiated, this is largely the Mechwarrior damage system)

Really? I've never played MW.

> I've experimented with linking attributes to body parts - say end to
> torso, dex to legs, str to arms, but people always want to argue things
> like "well strength would be more appropriate to legs than dex" etc and
> it tends to get a little messy, but would a simple arm/leg/chest/head
> system be too much to ask? Makes it easy to add in some kind of task
> modifiers too.

I tried exactly the same thing years ago, but gave up for the same reason.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:25:59 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

In a message dated 98-01-30 10:13:55 EST, you write:

<< 
 << Ok, how about this:  add 1D to the normal damage roll, add them up, 
 then roll 1D that you subtract.>>
 >
 >I like this. I'll implement it.
 >
 >Marc>>
 
 <Hey Marc,
 
 It's a shame you didn't suggest that one first ;-)
 
  >>
I'm going to abbreviate the process to +D -D. Will that work? 

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:35:06 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Critical Hits and +D-D

>In a message dated 1/29/98 14:20:22 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>T4Aslan@AOL.COM
>writes:
>
><< He can take at least one more shot before he'll go down.  I like the T4
> system for this better than TNE. Do you realize how many shots is takes
> to kill someone who has a value of say 40 or so for his chest.  Even
> maximum damage from weapon with a 6d value only does 36 points of damage. 

Didn't you use the quick kill rule?  That solves that quite nicely.  If you
use it to mean, as i do, that for every POINT of damage, that # or less rolled
on a d20 means instant death for head and torso shots.  In addition to the
home brew rule (that's quite popular) for using d10 rather than d6 for damage.
That means if u have 6D weapon theres a 6 in 20 chance that they're dead.  I
use it to mean i roll 17 total on those 6 dice (d10 or d6) that person is only
saved on a 18 through 20.  Those aren't nice odds of survival.
 
>>>
>
>     I used to hate this for TNE/Twilight 2k also....but I have found what I
>believe to have been on omission in the combat rules.  In T:2000 (1st ed) the
>damage done by a weapon was 4*the dam rating of the weapon + 4d6 (at close
>range)  At medium range it was 3*Dam +3d6, and so on down the line.  This
gave
>an M-16 (Dam rating of 2) the abilitiy to cause 8+4d6 at close range (12-40
>pts, avg 22) PER SHOT, while an average character had only 30 pts to absorb
>damage with (in the chest).  I believe this system was intended for T:2k
(2nd)
>as well as TNE, but was accidently left out (The combat rules for TNE are
>almost word-for-word the rules in T:2k (2nd) ).  If nothing else, it
certainly
>works as an optional rule for those still using TNE...and maybe someone who
>worked on the game can confirm my hypothesis??

Of course, that would work, too, but the quick kill rule is simpler, i think.

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:40:56 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Brocolli - was +D-D Discussion (renamed)

"Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> wrote:

>SD Mooney wrote:
>>Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK wrote:
>>>Hmm. That looks rude, which is not my intent, so please let me clarify by
>>>analogy: I don't like broccoli, and I don't eat them. That doesn't mean I
>>>want to stop stores carrying broccoli, or stop other people eating
>>>broccoli, or think any the worse of broccoli farmers.
>>
>>The Hresh embassy on Dingir wishes to lodge an official complaint to the
>>Solomani racialists who are prejudiced against those of a vegetative
>>nature... ;-)
>
>Which leads me to wonder, how would a Hresh taste with cheese sauce?

It depends if you get rid of all the pets it has first.

More importantly, would the Vegetarian Society approve Hresh as a dish?

Thinking again, if the Hresh ever want to start a jihad against the K'Kree
does anyone want to help?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:09:25 -0500
From: hal@buffnet.net
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

>>  Also, what I'd like to see with respect to misjumps?  A removal of the
In response to the "I'm looking for the spark"

>>concept that it can throw you off by up to 6 times the maximum jump
>>distance possible (ie 36 parsecs).  To my way of thinking, if it can be
>>acomplished accidentally, it should be reproducable deliberately.
>>Somewhere in the CT universe, it is implied that Man can achieve a Jump 36
>>using only a JUMP 1 configuration!
>
>Once could be an accident.  But twice?  No.  So the 36 above was no typo.
>Ok, how do you figure?  What did you read that made you think you can get 36
>parsecs out of a jump drive engine?  (I'm not being critical, I'm looking
>for the spark.)

Essentially, the logic is as follows:

1) if it can happen accidentally - it implies that it can happen again -
deliberately.

2) a lot of man's early achievements were the result of noticing something
that happens naturally, and trying to recreate the circumstances by which
it occurred

  Just as an example of what I am talking about.  If it is known that mass
affects the chances of a misjump, that would be a starting point in the
research and developement of the "misjump" theory.  If a misjump can, with
only 10% of the volume of a ship, along with a Jump1 engine set up -
produce a jump 36 result - how can it be done deliberately?  From there, I
would hazard a guess that scientists would use mathematical models (the
same models used to produce normal astrogation programs I would guess) as
well as robotic machines hooked to a jump drive.  Best place that I can
think of to work on this?  The rifts...  Out there, there would be a lot of
open space that one can work off of and not worry about what happens to the
ship itself (in case some really catestophic things happen!).

  In any case - misjumps contradict the "logic" of jumpspace in a major
way, and should be removed (IMHO).  However - this is NOT canon...

     Hal

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:10:11 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Random sampling of a hideously bloated inbox shows that Don Stark wrote:

>I have a question for all those involved with this tread -- there was an
>adventure way back in CT, ( I think it was in a Journal article), entitled
>Annic Nova. That ship used "solar collectors" to power its jump engines.
>Once you charged up, you could jump. No Liquid Hydrogen was needed. I think
>it used a solar sail to travel in system. Doesn't this technology negate
>arguments like the one above which hand-wave the need for hydrogen as a
>material component for jump, or is it just accepted that CT canon has been
>changed/evolved on this issue?

The Sayat have cobbled together a deviant, er, divergent jump drive
technology that works something like the Annic Nova, maybe.  It requires
the same large amounts of power in a burst, but much less hydrogen mass
for... well, for whatever it's for.  They've got great big capacitors to be
charged up with fast & inefficient fusion reactors (built as part of the
jump drive), plus solar panels, batteries, fuel cells, etc.

They don't use a hull grid of lanthanum, either, but have a small, massive
_Thing_ that sits in the very center of the ship and generates a jump
envelope of a given radius.  They don't like to talk to outsiders about how
it works.  They also sacrifice small animals to it on a regular basis, to
prevent misjump.  Many strange taboos around the whole subject.

The technology in question seems to be derived from a combination of
sources: unearthed 2500 year old Hiver starships, peculiar devices
recovered from a small group of Ancient cyberpunks who spent the last
300,000 years stuck on a comet hopped up on immuno-suppressants, and
decades of research by friendly math-genius lampreys.

Of course, it hardly needs saying that they're all totally non-underwear.



- --------------------------------------------------------
Kenji Schwarz                      Business Manager
Seattle Institute for Biomedical and Clinical Research
(206) 764 2730                     kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:16:00 PST
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

<<Best place that I can think of to work on this?  The rifts...  Out 
there, there would be a lot of open space that one can work off of and 
not worry about what happens to the ship itself (in case some really 
catestophic things happen!).>>

I don't agree.  While there is some danger of ships exploding, there 
doesn't seem to be a great danger to others "in the area".  I think this 
is an extrapolation of the "big sky little bullet" theory....  I would 
have the experiments done in a rather poplulous place, other wise you 
are looking in the rifts (lots of dead space) for a single starship 
which precipitated out of jumpspace at some unknown location.  I would 
think that you would want it to come out of jump space near a system so 
that you could get a beacon on it and go see what happened.

If it ends up in an empty hex, how would you find it again?

Greg

The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:16:09 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: A few Digests of Replies...

At 08:17 PM 1/30/98 +1200, you wrote:

>Just thought I'd comment that IG's policy in this regard is
>what prevented nme from even considering sending in any work
>for JTAS. (Not that that's neccessarily a great loss)
>
>Ain't no way I'm giving a company total copyright
>over a work (even if they don't use it) for _nothing_
>which is basically what the submission rules stated

If IG doesn't cough up what I am owed within a month, they are getting a
letter telling them that since they have defaulted on their end of the
contract, I am retaining all rights to my work, and maybe expanding the
adventure and trying to sell it to Harold  (Harold, I don't care if you
offer me $2 for the whole thing, I just want to see some money!)
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:11:20 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: +D -D (was Re: Time of Death for Spacing)

At 10:51 PM 1/29/98 GMT, you wrote:

>"The name's James-- Mr. Lindsay if you're nasty" ;P

Or "James the Peon Nitpicker (1st Class)", if you happen to be writing with
me on anything...
- --
*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
)      Douglas E. Berry              dberry@hooked.net     (
(          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/index.html        )
)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(
( A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any   )
) invention in human history--with the possible exceptions (
( of handguns and tequila.                                 )
)         Mitch Ratcliffe, Technology Review, April 1992   (
*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #76
*********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Friday, January 30 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 077



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

RE: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: sin in traveller?
Re: Hit location
Re: Death and Dying
RE: Traveller-digest V1998 #63
Jump grids - how big are they
RE: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Astronomy (was Re: sin in traveller?)
Jump Field Interference
Freelance Traveller
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
RE: Thoughts on Jump Drive
T4.1 and Marc Miller
Re: Initial colonization considerations
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
+D-D controversy
Re: Decompression/T4.1 Hit System

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:34:05 -0600
From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com>
Subject: RE: Thoughts on Jump Drive

On Friday, 30 January 1998 15:09, hal@buffnet.net [SMTP:hal@buffnet.net]
wrote:
[snip]
> 
>   Just as an example of what I am talking about.  If it is known that mass
> affects the chances of a misjump, that would be a starting point in the
> research and developement of the "misjump" theory.  If a misjump can, with
> only 10% of the volume of a ship, along with a Jump1 engine set up -
> produce a jump 36 result - how can it be done deliberately?  From there, I
> would hazard a guess that scientists would use mathematical models (the
> same models used to produce normal astrogation programs I would guess) as
> well as robotic machines hooked to a jump drive.  Best place that I can
> think of to work on this?  The rifts...  Out there, there would be a lot of
> open space that one can work off of and not worry about what happens to the
> ship itself (in case some really catestophic things happen!).
> 
>   In any case - misjumps contradict the "logic" of jumpspace in a major
> way, and should be removed (IMHO).  However - this is NOT canon...
> 
>      Hal

There is one, small problem.  That Jump36 that you get from a misjump is
uncontrolled.  The destination is in a random direction, so you have no
idea where you will come out.  It has been stated (I believe that it is
canon) that there can not be a *controlled* jump greater than 6.  So,
yes, you *could* deliberately create a misjump using your J1 drives to
throw you 36pc, but you would not be able to determine where you came
out.  With this, there is no contradictions to jump theory.

- -Vanya                                                      UPP-8D9B85
Traveller ---------------- Science Fiction Adventure in the Far Future
Meyers-Briggs personality type:ENTJ              | vanya@partyline.net
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with."     | dmoody@bridge.com
Visit the Not-the-IG Pages at
http://www.stl-online.net/vanya/default.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:34:19 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: sin in traveller?

HAL writes:

>At the risk of making it harder for Marc Miller, perhaps the year 1998
>with Traveller T4.1 could correct this oversight.

   I'm not sure what time pressues Marc has imposed on himself with regard
to "T4.1" but I think that it would make a worthy addition to the basic manual.

>  Also, perhaps a few volunteers could volunteer to redo the sector
>information in a more scientifically correct manner.

   I have already redone the Solomani Rim, and have volunteered to do more.
Others have already fixed the Spinward Marches, Deneb and other adjacent
sectors.

>Ls = Biodome world, this world is totally hostile to human life.

   Problem I can see with this is that *every* world that doesn't have a
breathable atmosphere (particularly worlds with atmosphere A+) will have
some kind of bio-domes.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: 30 Jan 98 16:38:52 EST
From: Jeffery.M.Miller@Dartmouth.EDU (Jeffery M. Miller)
Subject: Re: Hit location

Actually, during a time I had grafted the Twilight 2000 v.1 rules to Traveller
I had made up just such a chart for the players and one on their Character
Sheet, where they could indicate exact placement of armour etc and see how that
affected/was affected by hits. Worked really well. 


- --- twas writ:
We agreed that combat wasn't fast-paced in RPGs, and he
showed me an AWESOME solution.  It's published by some 
small game company, and consists of 

	1) a body outline, subdivided into small regions
	   (maybe 20 regoins)

	2) transparent overlays for shots at each range band.

Shots and swings are called, and the overlay is placed over
the body centered at the called location.  Dice are then
rolled to determine hit location.  Numbers are scattered  
around the overlay at calculated distributions (the dice
used here are percentile), and the resulting number shows
where the shot landed, whether on target, off target but
still a hit, or missing the mark.  It's clear for all to see,
it combines hit probability, called shots, near misses and
"oops, you hit his head by accident" situations.  This is
a wonderful system I think, one that any RPG could benefit
by.  The sales clerk said combat is swift in this system.

I didn't want to buy a rules book just for a body outline and
range-probability overlays -- but the idea is brilliant.

Anyone else see this system before?
- --- end of quote ---

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:25:09 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Death and Dying

At 04:13 PM 1/29/98 +0000, you wrote:

>Why not come to EuroGenCon...? ;-)

I'd love to come to EuroGenCon, but I don't have the $2000 dollars to spare
for the round trip ticket.  If I do come, somebody better point me at the
Victoria and Albert museum and get out of my way...

>>Now all we have to do is figure out how to split the honey-mustard sauce.
>
>This is the UK - I think we have tomato or barbeque sauce for McNuggets
>IIRC.

Heathens.

- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:47:56 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1998 #63

At 11:50 AM 1/30/98 -0600, you wrote:
>On Friday, 30 January 1998 11:12, Robert Eaglestone

>Yes.  It's probably from _Millenium's End_ by Chameleon Eclectic (I
>collect systems).  Its not a bad system, but it has some problems.  If
>you miss your roll by (for ex) 15, you may still hit, but if you miss by
>5, you may miss.  Part of this is offset by the firer choosing how to
>turn the template.

Biohazard Games produced a supplement called "Killer Crosshairs" that used
a system much like ME's.

When we were playing ME, we found that photos from Newsweek and color
plates from the Osprey series made for excellent targets.
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:12:37 GMT
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Jump grids - how big are they

I know what FFS2 and MT's Starship operation manual say, but it does not seem to be entirely consistent to me.

Do people have any strong views about how we might visualise the grids:

1) the jump grid is lots of narrow (1 mm dia) wires over the surface of the ship.  For this case, do these wires go "over" or "under" such fixtures as turrets, bays, sensor antennae, spinal mount openings, HEPLAR exhaust ports.  is there a maximum separation for the wires? Does this separation reduce with jump number?  If the wires go over other features, why bother to assign a surface area to them in FFS2?

2) the jump grid is mostly contained in a few area (say, near the fore and aft of the vessel, plus near the tips of wings, tailplanes) with half-a-dozen grid lines joining the key nodes?

Following the SOM, I used to handwave things as (1), saying that turrets had to be in the correct position for jump (so their grids matched the rest of the ship), antennae had to be retracted and thin doors closed over spinal mounts, M-drive ports and so on.  I always liked the idea of last-minute EVA to unjam the turret, or to re-lay a section of damaged grid with a lanthanum welding rod as the ship flees combat.

Now that FFS2 assigns a specifc surface area to the grids, and this reduces the
area available for turrets, airlockes and so on, I decided I needed a new
handwave.  One option is to keep my original hand wave and add in the "node
areas" of (2) and claim that these are what FFS2 is refering to.

What does the team think?

Simon

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:12:27 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: RE: Thoughts on Jump Drive

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD2DA2.3DF59B20
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

A major problem I see with researching the 36 parsec misjump:

Considering how much interstellar space there is in a 36 parsec radius, =
your chances that any of your robotic test ships will come out where =
they can be detected or recovered is effectively zero. If you are a race =
unimpressed with things like time, you could set your test ships to =
broadcast their positions if they ever get back to normal space - that =
would mean you would wait several years (or decades) for the data from =
each run of the experiment.

Races with that kind of view of time won't worry about making speedy 36 =
parsec jumps, they'll just jump-1 36 times.  ;)

Walt Smith

- ----------
From: 	hal@buffnet.net[SMTP:hal@buffnet.net]
Sent: 	Friday, January 30, 1998 4:09 PM
To: 	traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: 	Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

<<SNIP>>

  Just as an example of what I am talking about.  If it is known that =
mass
affects the chances of a misjump, that would be a starting point in the
research and developement of the "misjump" theory.  If a misjump can, =
with
only 10% of the volume of a ship, along with a Jump1 engine set up -
produce a jump 36 result - how can it be done deliberately?  From there, =
I
would hazard a guess that scientists would use mathematical models (the
same models used to produce normal astrogation programs I would guess) =
as
well as robotic machines hooked to a jump drive.  Best place that I can
think of to work on this?  The rifts...  Out there, there would be a lot =
of
open space that one can work off of and not worry about what happens to =
the
ship itself (in case some really catestophic things happen!).

  In any case - misjumps contradict the "logic" of jumpspace in a major
way, and should be removed (IMHO).  However - this is NOT canon...

     Hal

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- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD2DA2.3DF59B20--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:08:58 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: Astronomy (was Re: sin in traveller?)

Peter Newman writes:

>I hope that you are being too pesamistic here but I suspect that you are
>right Harold.
>
>Please publish it, or make it available, yourself if nothing else.

   I am not the author of the "T4" overhaul of the star system generation
sequence, but I consulted (along with several others) by the authors of the
project.

   If it were submitted to Traveller Chronicle for publication, it would get
published if I had to run the printing press myself.  Unfortunately (for TTC
at least), it is now in IG's hands, having already been submitted for
publication there.  It would be up to the authors to make a change should
they wish to do so.

>I think that we need to have an accurate star generation system in
>Traveller for two basic reasons.
>
>1) Willing suspension of disbelief in the current, inaccurate, system
>severely strains my mind.
>
>2) One of the things I like best about Traveller (besides playing
>slightly eccentric charecters) is creating worlds.  

<snip>

   We are once again in total agreement.

   BTW, in Scouts, Earth is used as an example of how to calculate a world's
temperature.  The resulting number, 15 degrees C is 2.5 degrees C above what
the number actually is.  No wonder DGP thought the polar ice caps were
melting...

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:37:22 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: Jump Field Interference

Something I was thinking of with the recent discussions on using all that hydrogen jump fuel to construct a real-space energized particle field:

How big would such field be? I don't have the chemistry or physics formulas handy, but isn't a Jump-5 vessel dumping half it's volume in compressed hydrogen, then energizing it? And of course, the more energy you add to a gas cloud, the farther apart the atoms get, the more the volume increases...

Here's where I'm going with this: in Traveller as I've played it, the heroes are running for the 100 diameter (or even 10 diameter!) limit, bad guys in hot pursuit, the heroes pop the clutch, squeal the hydrogen and throw their ship from the middle of the battle into the safety of jump space.

Same scene with jump drives making a hydrogen-based field around the ship:
Heroes activate the jump drives, the field starts forming...and any laser,
particle beam or HEPlaR exhaust particle touching the field (not the ship,
mind you - the _field_) disrupts it. Again, we'd have to do the math to
determine what kind of volume the field would have, but I think it would be
pretty big. Now they don't have to hit you to stop you - every near-miss makes
your astrogation program throw a fit.

I imagine a poor man's jump suppresor, a low-power plasma beam that washes over
the ship - not hot enough to scorch the paint, but enough to over-excite that
hydrogen you're dumping. Something for the revenue cutters that are tired of
smugglers jumping away right before the inspectors board?

The right kind of disruption might even detonate the field. Hard on the ship,
worse on your fuel supplies.

It sounds to me like explaining jump drives with the real-space particle field
effect would make jumping out of space combat impossible, or at least very
dangerous. When they worked with lanthanum grids in your hull, you could armor
your field - it's a little harder to armor a surrounding gas cloud.

Walt Smith
http://hartwick.edu/~smithw/main.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:50:36 -0700
From: Eric Holmes <holmes_eric_t@lanl.gov>
Subject: Freelance Traveller

Jeff:

As much as I hate to admit it, I do not like click through advertisments.
How'm so ever, if it means FREE, go for it.  I'll learn to deal with it.  I
guess it can't be worse than seven minutes of advert during the Superbowl or
an evening movie.

Eric

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:44:53 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

At 01:07 PM 1/30/98 -0600, you wrote:
>> > >>>According to current (T4 and IIRC CT) technobabble, you 
>> > >>>don't burn any of the fuel, it is used to create and maintain 
>> > >>>the "real-space" "jump bubble".
>> > >>I can't speak for T4, but this is not the CT explanation.  In fact,
>> > >>the jump space sickness stuff in implies the "jump bubble" is
>> > >>an electromagnetic field.
>> > >Therefore, it can be created using only energy.  Such that 
>> > >might come from a storage media.
>> > Then why does High Guard say you have to have fuel in order 
>> > to jump during break off?
>> 
[...Annic Nova ship] used "solar collectors" to power its jump engines.
>Once you charged up, you could jump. No Liquid Hydrogen was needed. I think
>it used a solar sail to travel in system. Doesn't this technology negate 
>arguments like the one above which hand-wave the need for hydrogen as a 
>material component for jump, or is it just accepted that CT canon has been 
>changed/evolved on this issue?

I believe most people are ruling that canon has evolved, given the very
early release of Annic Nova, and the later release of High Guard.

For what it is worth, in my personal canon, the transport tech goes as
follows:

9 j1
11 j2
12 j3
13 j4
14 j5
15 j6
16 jump fuel needs drops to 80% of standard levels
   internal teleporters in jumpspace
   100m teleporters
17 jump fuel needs drops to 63% of standard levels
   system wide teleportation allows remote refuling in populated systems
   10 AU teleportation
18 jump fuel needs drops to 63% of standard levels
   Protium-only teleporters that can reach jumpspace
   2000 AU teleportation
19 stable jump fields that do not require fuel
   jumpspace teleporter access
20 multiparsec teleporters
21 stable structures in jumpspace

Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:50:55 -0500 (EST)
From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
Subject: RE: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Actually,
<grin>

  Send out a fleet of robotic ships at a minimum of 100 displacement tons
with "shoddy" jump drives (ie cheap - not expected to work more than a few
times...)

  Use continous broadcast radio...

1) make sure you keep track of the variables you had control over...

2) keep various recording devices working at all times during the initial
jump sequence.

3) keep various recording devices around the exit point at all times...

  Then...

  at select points - place radio recievers...

  Thennnnnnnn

  go visit those recievers.

Thoughts:
 1) the map of Traveller is two dimensional not three.  
 
2) if you use the idea of placing radio recievers in the 6 radial
  directions, you would only need 216 of them - one for each hex in each
  direction.  Six scouts, each taking 72 weeks can collect the data from
  each collection point and bring it back to the central collections
  point.

3) radio travels at a speed of one parsec every 3.26 years, so any one
radio station would only need 1.63 years to recieve the radio broadcast
assuming that you plant the station exactly in the center of the "hex".

4) despite the problem of a roughly 2 year time lag getting the data
initially, one could launch a "ship" every two weeks, every week, or even
every day if one has access to that kind of resources.  The data would be
limited only to the collection times required.

5) also, it would not be hard to use a secondary collection point at the
midway mark of each "arm" such that data is taken there, and from there,
back to the central collections point.

  In all, a systematic approach to "why" things happen would go a long way
towards discovering the principles of getting a jump36 machine.

  As one person did mention earlier, the "energy" required is paid up
before the jump, so some of the recent "theories" of how and why jumps 1
through 6 work would preclude the ability to jump 36 parsecs on only 10%
hull displacement seemingly are voided by that observation.

  Personally?  Since Traveller is noted as being the *best* sci-fi game
system that structures it's technology and technology descriptions - don't
you all think it is time to structure the Jump Drive theory as well?

  I think it is time, that Traveller looks at the facts of what it has
made "gospel" and ties it in with what is known today.  T4 has already
done this once with respect towards computers (take a look at the CT
computer volumes versus T4's computer volumes and you will see what I
mean).  If this is done, take as many "facts" from CT and list them.  Find
the facts that contradict each other and either resolve them or eliminate
the most troublesome datum.  From there, make an explanation that fits all
facts as best as possible without violating any other "facts".  Once that
is done, and "canonized", future writers won't make novel changes to the
system in addenda or suppliment form.  In short, this is what most
builders would call "laying in the foundation".

  The alternative to this is to permit "chaos" to flower where it need
not.  Those who want their versions of Traveller to remain unchanged?  You
already have the books for the version you want to play.  I am talking
about the survability of T4.1 folks.  T4.1, with all the work that Marc
will/is putting into it, deserves to last as a lasting tribute to his
original concept: a space science fiction roleplaying game to bring
enjoyment to those who purchase it.  It deserves to have an internal self
consistancy such that 10 years from now, people are going to play T4.1
instead of GURPS SPACE or some other game system that delivers what T4.1
won't.

  Well enough on this, since it's really two threads in one...

   Hal

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:16:50 -0500 (EST)
From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
Subject: T4.1 and Marc Miller

Hello Folks,
  I started on one topic earlier on another thread, and realized that what
I ended with was really a different "thread".  Consequently, I thought it
would be best to condense my thoughts on the matter into this post...

  First off, let me make a "comment" for Marc Miller...

  It is my belief, that Traveller started Science Fiction roleplaying much
like D&D started fantasy roleplaying.  As such, a lot of thanks goes out
to you for having started this.  Furthermore, your attempts to predict the
future technology were good ones.  Couple this with the relatively good
roleplaying mechanisms you used in the original, and the ease of play this
engendered means that CT is worth remembering as a good roleplaying
system.
  However, as more and more people came to enjoy it, more and more people
spotted errors in it, or discovered that it needed more to be added to it
than what was there.  It is ludicrous to expect that you (Marc Miller)
should be an expert surgeon/doctor, Engineer, Astophysicist, Military
General, etc...  What has happened however, is that others have been able
to bring their understanding and education to the process.

  If I may be so bold as to ask/point out to the list...

  Instead of telling Marc "build the best error free T4.1) you can, so we
can rip it up showing where the errors are, why don't we all work together
on submitting things to him specifically with the express intent of
helping him?

  Instead of saying "this is wrong - fix it", why don't we all actually
take the current rule that we thing is wrong, or the proceedure that we
think is wrong, and submit something that fixes it?

  #1 rule to abide by though: this *HAS* to be a labor of love, no
monetary rewards expected...

  #2 rule to abide by: all judgment must be left in Marc's hands.  If we
disagree with something, but he disagrees with our disagreement, then take
it for what it's worth...

  #3 Although it would be nice to see our names in print - we should be
content with the fact that something was fixed, and enjoy the *self
satisfaction* that goes with that thought.  Thus, no listing of credits
for who did what or who was involved unless Marc feels it necessary.
However, to be fair, those people who submit concepts are also playing a
vital role in the creation process by virtue of showing Marc what he
doesn't want and/or why.

  Now, why am I mentioning this?  Number one: despite my love for
Traveller when it first came out during my college days back in 1978, I
have moved on away from it.  The reason I moved away from it is because it
had certain deficiencies in it that made other games more attractive.

  I think that if T4.1 was made as "tight" as possible, that future games
will not be able to Lure players away from Traveller.  This would ensure
that it is not a niche game for a few people, but a Game that will endure
for a long long time to come.

  In a way, T4 has already made steps in the direction I think Traveller
can go with the addition of FF&S (either edition) for the simple reason
that FF&S allows the players to create the technology base they want to
use either as canon or as non-canon approaches.

  What I'd like to see happen, is that Traveller builds a solid
foundation, and builds from that.  Thus, the Jumpdrive theories that have
been sprouted before?  Have a single theory that maximizes everything with
the least hassle of contradictions.

  Ok, having said that, I think it remains up to Marc Miller to either
second my thoughts and let people know he would like the added help, or
shoot it down as the meddling that it is (ie unasked for comments <Grin>)
that violates the direction that he wants to go.

  In one respect, I liken Marc's job, should he like my proposals, to that
of an editor with "THE ONE TRUE GUIDING LIGHT" in his eyes.  Those who
submit help would be an anthology collection group of authors.  Thus, Marc
has the final say, and the final task of writing the whole thing, but in
the mean time, he doesn't have to sweat out the details of things that he
isn't expert at...

  Well, soapbox mode off...

    Hal

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:01:54 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Initial colonization considerations

> From: Richard A. Flores <cybernot@gte.net>
> >Just a few thoughts here about High Population worlders going to a
colony
> >world.  What would be the psychological impact to them?  ...
> Ever hear the term "culture shock"?  OTOH, there would be preparing
> for the reality of a new world from the time they heard of the project.

Yes.  There was a book called "The Caves of Steel" written by Asimov that
deals with this whole thing.  Basicly, yes they would have training, but a
goodly amount goes insane because of the shock of being on a new world. 
IMHO, great read.

> >What I mean is that the people on the home world would think "Thank god,
> >something is being done about the problem."  ...
> Take even a 100,000 (the largest size colony discussed) out of a
> 1,000,000,000 and what kind of dent do you make?  The answer:  none! OTOH,
> there is always the propaganda machine to turn this into a solution if you
> need one.  :-)

Actually the largest size colony discussed was 1,000,000 people but that is
neither here nor there.

Governments today run on propaganda & who is to say that the governments in
the future will not do the same.
 
> >But, with people raised in a
> >dense population situation would this not cause some problems
> with them working together, i.e. not trust, thinking the other person is
> going to stab them
> >in the back.  By High Population, I mean in the tens of billions, not what
> >we have now.
> I live on a high population world (6,000,000,000+), that doesn't stop me
> from trusting total strangers with all kinds of stuff.  The people they are
> going with will not be strangers.  They will go through training and
> orientation together.  They might even have been friends before applying for
> the colony.

This is a point in your favor, but what about involentary colonization with
that form of colonization.  I.e. we find a great colony world & about half
the people train to live there & the other half are from the prisions?

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:20:01 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

> From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
> > Actually, we do have a theory about hyperspace & how it works & I will
be
> > the first to admit I do not understand it, but, until our TL gets to
the
> > point that we can test it, it reamins just that a theory.
> Where is this theory? I've heard of no serious scientific theory of
> hyperspace. Alternate universes, perhaps...

A Scientist at Oxford proved that, Mathematicly at least, Hyperspace
exists.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:10:06 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: +D-D controversy

Has anyone actually tried playtesting this new wrinkle?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:48:30 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Decompression/T4.1 Hit System

Leonard Erickson wrote:

> In mail you write:
>
> >>> I can imagine a lot of interesting implants and body mods intended to
> >>> increase vacuum survivability. For instance, those who live and work in
> >>> space might have modified skin, or an implanted subcutaneous layer, which
> >>> acts like the pressure garment in a VacSuit, to limit ebullism.
>
> Actually, our skin is quite adequate to handle exposure to vacuum. It's
> just that it needs some support against the pressure differential. It
> can handle the "gas tight membrane" function of a suit on it's own.
>
> That's where the idea of a "skin suit" comes from. It's basicly a
> *close* fitting elastic leotard, with padding in the areas where the
> body isn't convex.

How about a 'skin' only a couple of molecules thick, that you rub into the skin.
Could be temporary, higher TLs, longer duration and more complete protection.  NO
getting into or getting out of.

WRT UV radiation, ought to have an SPF 1k that you apply to skin once for life,
or per year or some such.  Circa TL 10 maybe?

Bloo

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #77
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Friday, January 30 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 078



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Mea Culpa and Cyberware
Re: PBEM Task Resolution
Re: Heretics and heathens
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Gravity Shields
Re: Decompression/T4.1 Hit System
Re: Gravity Shields
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: +D-D Discussion (renamed)
Re: +D3-D3
Re: Heretics and heathens
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re:       Re: Jump Gates
Re: Initial colonization considerations
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: re:Traveller-digest V1998 #63
Re: Posting WD articles
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Heretics and Heathens
Re: Heretics and heathens
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
SysGen -- system generation software

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:53:27 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Mea Culpa and Cyberware

Kenji Schwarz wrote:

> Ian Whitchurch wrote:
> >The Solomani have fewer scruples, however. But rest assured SolSec will be
> >keeping careful records on any privately-owned implants.
>
> Ahem.

Ahem is right.

Sheesh.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:42:43 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: PBEM Task Resolution

Just want to thank everyone for the suggestions!

Thanks.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:49:07 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Heretics and heathens

Sanders <timmon@primenet.com> wrote:

>Give us all a break and take the Christian bashing elsewhere.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:55:10 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com> wrote:


>On Thu, 29 Jan 1998, Richard A. Flores wrote:
>
>> Bolie Williams IV wrote
>> 
>> >"I know his name..."
>> 
>> What is it?
>> 
>Fasil

Wow, he really did know.  ;-)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:25:21 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Gravity Shields

J-Man asked:


>Also, what are White Globe shields?

That's White Globes, not White Globe shields.  :-)

A white globe is like a black globe except that it can radiate energy at the
same time as it absorbs what's incoming.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:17:57 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Decompression/T4.1 Hit System

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK wrote:
>
><<Glenn Grant wrote:
>The fun thing with retractable claws, of course, is when you roll a
>Spectacular Failure and they get stuck, extended.
>
>Eeeeyew. What if you're inside a vac suit when you do this?
>
That's when you wish you had gone ahead a coughed up the extra credits for
the special attachments isn't it?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:21:53 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Gravity Shields

J-Man wrote:


>Well I'm not looking for a Black Globe shield, but a ship that might
>layer 3 different wavelengths of intense focused graviton fields around
>it to stop beams and kinetic weapons from damaging it.  It would be able
>to manipulate the fields to create tiny corridors in which to launch
>small one-man attack fighters from and act as a base ship for them.

If you are at TL 15+, I say go for it.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:29:38 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

>Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK wrote:

>"We don't use this for power plants, 'cos every time you turn the sucker on
>it disappears into jumpspace for a week. At least, we think it's a week. We
>haven't got one back yet. We don't think it can be more than 36 parsecs
>away, though, so we should find it eventually..."

Projectile ejection etc.

Does anyone know where I could get a clear shield for my cyberspace
interface device?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:25:59 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: +D-D Discussion (renamed)

SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> wrote:


>"Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> wrote:
>
>>Marc said:
>
>>>Does this mean the +D -D will be an option the player selects?
>
>>Have you ever tried to run a campaign using a rule the players don't like?
>
>Marc didn't say that. I did - I asked Marc that ... ;-)
>
>Dom
>
>PS Not for long would be the answer to your question...

Sorry about the misquote (or would that be misattribution?).  However, Marc,
the question still stands.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:12:39 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: +D3-D3

Glenn Hoppe wrote:

>> Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK wrote:
>> 01/30/98 11:30 AM
>>
>> <<
>> ROTFLMAO!!  That's a keeper!
>> >>
>>
>> Prithee, kind sir, what dost thou mean? For I am but newly arrived on the
>> Internette and my Galanglic translator is an old model of no great
>> expense...
>
>Thou hast not met this long beast? Ah... Allow me to translate
>
>Rolling On The Floor Laughing My Arse Off
>
>Gentry of lower taste may substitute Arse for harsher words...

In the words of Bill Shakesburg, "An arse by any other name would smell as

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 17:22:03 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Heretics and heathens

I guess all the old-timers *knew* this thread was going to attract my
attention, didn't you?  ;->

Lot's of snips follow...

On 01/30/98 at 02:16 AM,  "Legate" <legate@futureone.com> said:

>"I understand that you worship the devil & like to kill babies" she said.

>"What gave you that idea" I asked.

>She said it was what her Priest told her.

That doesn't sound like any Priest I've ever talked to.  Not even any of
the fundamentalist-fundamentalist preachers around here!  No religious
sects I'm aware of preach that Jews "worship the devil & like to kill
babies."  I wonder what fringe sect you were dealing with there?

>I could not think of a witty remark to say here so I just turned & left
>stunned.

Yeah, it would have stunned me, too.  It's just a shame you weren't able to
correct the mother and child's perception.  You probably *couldn't* have, I
know, but it's still a shame to leave a child with such a perception. 

OTOH, you *were* in a place called the "Rusty Pelican."  That *sounds* like
an establishment that dispenses alcoholic beverages, yes?  And were talking
to a Mother that brought her little girl into that environment. Says
something about what you were dealing with, perhaps.

>It was sad really.  To have in this day & age the same things that the
>Inquisition felt are still around.

You've got that right, however bigotry will probably be with us always.


Ob Traveller, I hope you don't object to the term "heretic" being used in
its Traveller connotation.  You don't seem to mind using "canon", and that
term has as much (or as little) religious taint as heretic.

In Traveller, Canon is used to refer to standard, orthodox, traditional,
published background and rules.  Heretics are those that don't adhere to
these standards...if you'll excuse the expression...religiously.  This
doesn't mean that heretics can't appreciate the existence of the body of
work, that is Traveller, nor that they don't follow any (or even all) of
the "canon."  We just don't see the necessity or requirement that canon
*must* be followed.

Personally, I've always objected to the idea that Traveller has to be
played "the one true way", or that anyone (and that includes Marc Miller)
can define that "one true way."  That is my Traveller heresy.  

Now, from your posts, well, if you tinker with rules for jumpgates, oppose
the "1 week no matter how far" jump drive, consider the possibility of
using FTL radio in one of your games, then you're a heretic too.  In fact,
I'd go so far as to say, if you're on *either* side of the "how does jump
drive work" argument, then somebody is going to consider you a heretic. 
Heck Glenn and I are on the same side and still don't agree on how jump
drives work! ;->

All, of course, IMO...except that Glenn and I don't agree about jump
drives, of that I'm pretty sure.  ;->


Eris,
    the heretic
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 18:09:05 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

On 01/30/98 at 11:43 AM,  ASlack@synetics.co.uk said:

>One futher proviso however: the hydrogen used to create the bubble must
>exit from hyperspace along with the ship - otherwise, our universe will be
>losing mass every time someone jumps - thus seemingly violating the LAW:
>convservation of energy...

Well, if Jump/hyperspace is part of our universe then the mass isn't lost
just reallocated. ;->  However, I do agree that most of the "injection
mass" does exit with the ship..in one way or another.

>Excellent. So if realspace momentum is conserved in jump, you will jump
>insystem and poof! an expanding cloud of hydrogen appears out of nowhere,
>flying down your previous trajectory. You then make a course change and
>exit the cloud. 

In my view, when a ship exits jump it is with a blinding flash of photons,
a large gravitic disturbance, and a rapidly expanding cloud of highly
energized ions.  So, I'd refine your narrative slightly for one of my
games...

"Sir, I've got a spike on the gravitometer..on our *inside* leg!"

"From the fade it looks like bearing 233 mark 15.  That's right at Timber
3.  It's about....um 9 megaclicks from us, 14 from Timber 3."

"If we were another half hour out, we'd have missed that spike, Sir."

About 30 seconds later...

"Sir, I've got the Jump Flash on IR, mark, mark, mark. Judging by the
energy frequency and dispersion rate it's from a 40kton ship on a J2
bounce."

"Damn!  Bring us around and radio Command.  If it's a Zeristu Crusier it
can do about 18 ls, so it's still almost three hours out.  If we go to full
military power can we intercept it before it reaches Timber 3?"

"Checking, Sir."

"Yes, Sir, but just barely, and only if we commit right now."

"How soon will we have the bogie on sensor plot, if it *is* making for
Timber 3?"

"Twenty minutes, Sir, but if we go to FMP they'll pick us up about the same
time."

"And if we don't go to FMP, Commander, the Zerk will beat us to Timber 3 by
a half hour and get a free shot on our base.  We're the only ship that can
beat her there."

"Full Military Power!  Start buttoning up for combat."

"Sparks, have you got Timber 3 on the comm yet?"


[I couldn't help myself either. ;->]


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:38:56 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re:       Re: Jump Gates

Volker A. Greimann <GREI5001@uni-trier.de> wrote:


>Maybe one could see a jump gate as a possible means of transport for
>ships smaller than 100t, with a gate dependant drive. For larger
>ships the gate becomes uneconomical (higher fuel use, etc), so they
>don't use it. Maybe everything is top secret, only known to the
>highest imperials. Maybe the gates are there in those "*empty*"
>hexes! Who knows?

Alas, it cannot be so in the universe of Traveller.  CT & T4 both state
categorically that no ship under 100Td can survive the transit.

They didn't say why, but they did say so.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:23:21 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Initial colonization considerations

On Fri, 30 Jan 1998, Legate wrote:
 
> This is a point in your favor, but what about involentary colonization with
> that form of colonization.  I.e. we find a great colony world & about half
> the people train to live there & the other half are from the prisions?
> 

Again, we're straying far from the original concept, which was for a
sub-light large scale colonization effort. No government is going to put
that kind of effort into transplanting prisoners. Far cheaper and simpler
to just execute them or stick them into big orbital habs.

Penal colonies only work if you have cheap transport, and a known
destination. Wooden ships in the 1700-1800's were cheap, and, (foex)
Australia was known to be able to support people (ie they could breath,
eat the local lifeforms, etc) 

In your case, I suspect that what happened in Australia would be a good
model. The 'trained' ones (ie: non-convicts) would rule the roost and get
the good land, and the convicts either dumped somewhere inhospitable to
scratch or die, or live as slaves. 

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:20:28 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca> wrote:

[snip of as good an explaination as I have heard]

>The problem I have with "incredibly vast amounts of energy are needed"
>is: exactly how is this energy channelled to jumpspace? Since
>energy/matter are equivalent, isn't the visible Universe losing entropy?
>Isn't this a Bad Thing?


<glib mode on>
Don't you know that when intropy reaches unity, nothing happens.  How can
that be good?  So we loose a little entropy.  How can that be bad?
<glib mode off?>

>This is why postulating that a "moderate" amount of energy used to
>create a highly exotic and difficult to create energy/particle field
>around the ship -- and this field allows entry into jumpspace -- makes
>more sense to me.

Actually, I like this one.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:08:11 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: re:Traveller-digest V1998 #63

Robert Eaglestone <eaglesto@nortel.ca> wrote:

[snip]
>We agreed that combat wasn't fast-paced in RPGs, and he
>showed me an AWESOME solution.  It's published by some
>small game company, and consists of
>
> 1) a body outline, subdivided into small regions
>    (maybe 20 regoins)
>
> 2) transparent overlays for shots at each range band.
[snip]
>Anyone else see this system before?
>
>Rob
>
>P.S. Could such a system be applied to starships as well?

Probably, but (you knew that but was coming didn't you), you would need a
different layout and overlay for each design and you would have to know what
was under the skin of each ship in question.  It's easy with personal
combat, you look at the picture and say to yourself, if I was hit in the
[insert body part here], then I would(n't)...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:44:42 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Posting WD articles

Bolie IV wrote:


>> Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK wrote:
>>
>> Leonard, Bloo, guys -
>>
>> Thanks for the advice, but when I submitted the articles to WD I
>> effectively cut a deal on copyright with GW, and I'll stick by it. Looks
>> like I can post the stuff if I want to, so long as I make it clear it's
>> theirs. That's good enough.
>>
>> Thanks again :)
>> Andy
>
>If you gave them the rights in exchange for pay and they don't pay
>you, then they're in breach of contract and the contract is null and
>void and the rights are yours.  You can't have a contract unless
>there is an exchange of goods or services.

Unfortunately, you will have to sue to get the rights back.  Until you have
a piece of paper with a judge's name on it, those rights still belong to
WD/GW.  This sucks IMNSHO, but, that's life.  :-(

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:30:10 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

Michael D. Peters <Letterworks@Comten.com> wrote:


>I'd need to sit down and look at some of the numbers for STL travel times to
>the nearer stars, and distances, but I think that this may be the way Terra
>actually expanded before the First Interstellar War. Especially when the
>distance of the none Terran Confederation colonies are taken into account,
>colonies in Reaver's Deep and Dark Nebula Sectors, as well as out toward the
>Rim. These seem like a bigger "leap" than can be accounted for by normal
>Jump progression, even with Jump 2 or 3, when you concider the usable
>planets in between that weren't colonized.

If you are using a Bussard ram jet the travel times are easy, figure the
time it takes to reach light speed, then add the distances (in light years)
and devide by light.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:32:43 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK wrote:

>Excellent. So if realspace momentum is conserved in jump, you will jump
>insystem and poof! an expanding cloud of hydrogen appears out of nowhere,
>flying down your previous trajectory. You then make a course change and
>exit the cloud. Some time later:
>
>"Sir, I see their emergence cloud. When they jumped insystem they had a
>vector of 233 mark 15. Judging by the dispersion, I'd say they've been here
>a couple of hours."
>
>"Damn. Tactical! Give me a furthest-on globe for a 3G ship with that vector
>and datum, two hours on. Nav! Give me a limiting cone of approach..."
>
>"Sir! I've got a weapons instruction! Waveform indicates mid-course
>correction for a nuc-det missile in the two megatonne range! Incoming!"
>
>"Damn! They can't have one of those, the new ship rules don't allow it..."
>
>"Sir, they could be a Remnant from a previous rules system."
>
>[static]
>
>Sorry. That started out sensible, but I couldn't help myself :)
>Andy
>
Andy, quit it your hurting me.  Now about that shield?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:49:21 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Heretics and Heathens

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK wrote:

[snip]
>For years, my father-in-law (himself tolerant of other
>religions - he let me, a foreign heretic, marry his daughter) would
>occasionally test people's views on this matter by saying: "I think they
>should kill all barbers and Jews."
>
>He reports that the most common answer he got was "Why barbers?"
>
>Scary, isn't it?
>
In defense of those who ask "Why barbers?":

Such a statement while (hopefully) not condoned would at least be understood
concerning Jews.  It has been going on for years.  Before beginning the
discussion of why it should not be done, I would want to know why barbers.
Racism is a dangerous practice and should not be allowed.  But human nature
is what it is, we are curious about the unknown.

Disclaimer:  The above defense of those who ask "Why barbers?", in no way
indicates a tendency on my part to be anti-Semitic.  If the quote had been
all barbers and [insert the name of your least favorite race, nationality,
religion or fraternal organization here].  I would still want to know "Why
barbers?"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 17:22:03 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Heretics and heathens

I guess all the old-timers *knew* this thread was going to attract my
attention, didn't you?  ;->

Lot's of snips follow...

On 01/30/98 at 02:16 AM,  "Legate" <legate@futureone.com> said:

>"I understand that you worship the devil & like to kill babies" she said.

>"What gave you that idea" I asked.

>She said it was what her Priest told her.

That doesn't sound like any Priest I've ever talked to.  Not even any of
the fundamentalist-fundamentalist preachers around here!  No religious
sects I'm aware of preach that Jews "worship the devil & like to kill
babies."  I wonder what fringe sect you were dealing with there?

>I could not think of a witty remark to say here so I just turned & left
>stunned.

Yeah, it would have stunned me, too.  It's just a shame you weren't able to
correct the mother and child's perception.  You probably *couldn't* have, I
know, but it's still a shame to leave a child with such a perception. 

OTOH, you *were* in a place called the "Rusty Pelican."  That *sounds* like
an establishment that dispenses alcoholic beverages, yes?  And were talking
to a Mother that brought her little girl into that environment. Says
something about what you were dealing with, perhaps.

>It was sad really.  To have in this day & age the same things that the
>Inquisition felt are still around.

You've got that right, however bigotry will probably be with us always.


Ob Traveller, I hope you don't object to the term "heretic" being used in
its Traveller connotation.  You don't seem to mind using "canon", and that
term has as much (or as little) religious taint as heretic.

In Traveller, Canon is used to refer to standard, orthodox, traditional,
published background and rules.  Heretics are those that don't adhere to
these standards...if you'll excuse the expression...religiously.  This
doesn't mean that heretics can't appreciate the existence of the body of
work, that is Traveller, nor that they don't follow any (or even all) of
the "canon."  We just don't see the necessity or requirement that canon
*must* be followed.

Personally, I've always objected to the idea that Traveller has to be
played "the one true way", or that anyone (and that includes Marc Miller)
can define that "one true way."  That is my Traveller heresy.  

Now, from your posts, well, if you tinker with rules for jumpgates, oppose
the "1 week no matter how far" jump drive, consider the possibility of
using FTL radio in one of your games, then you're a heretic too.  In fact,
I'd go so far as to say, if you're on *either* side of the "how does jump
drive work" argument, then somebody is going to consider you a heretic. 
Heck Glenn and I are on the same side and still don't agree on how jump
drives work! ;->

All, of course, IMO...except that Glenn and I don't agree about jump
drives, of that I'm pretty sure.  ;->


Eris,
    the heretic
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 18:09:05 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

On 01/30/98 at 11:43 AM,  ASlack@synetics.co.uk said:

>One futher proviso however: the hydrogen used to create the bubble must
>exit from hyperspace along with the ship - otherwise, our universe will be
>losing mass every time someone jumps - thus seemingly violating the LAW:
>convservation of energy...

Well, if Jump/hyperspace is part of our universe then the mass isn't lost
just reallocated. ;->  However, I do agree that most of the "injection
mass" does exit with the ship..in one way or another.

>Excellent. So if realspace momentum is conserved in jump, you will jump
>insystem and poof! an expanding cloud of hydrogen appears out of nowhere,
>flying down your previous trajectory. You then make a course change and
>exit the cloud. 

In my view, when a ship exits jump it is with a blinding flash of photons,
a large gravitic disturbance, and a rapidly expanding cloud of highly
energized ions.  So, I'd refine your narrative slightly for one of my
games...

"Sir, I've got a spike on the gravitometer..on our *inside* leg!"

"From the fade it looks like bearing 233 mark 15.  That's right at Timber
3.  It's about....um 9 megaclicks from us, 14 from Timber 3."

"If we were another half hour out, we'd have missed that spike, Sir."

About 30 seconds later...

"Sir, I've got the Jump Flash on IR, mark, mark, mark. Judging by the
energy frequency and dispersion rate it's from a 40kton ship on a J2
bounce."

"Damn!  Bring us around and radio Command.  If it's a Zeristu Crusier it
can do about 18 ls, so it's still almost three hours out.  If we go to full
military power can we intercept it before it reaches Timber 3?"

"Checking, Sir."

"Yes, Sir, but just barely, and only if we commit right now."

"How soon will we have the bogie on sensor plot, if it *is* making for
Timber 3?"

"Twenty minutes, Sir, but if we go to FMP they'll pick us up about the same
time."

"And if we don't go to FMP, Commander, the Zerk will beat us to Timber 3 by
a half hour and get a free shot on our base.  We're the only ship that can
beat her there."

"Full Military Power!  Start buttoning up for combat."

"Sparks, have you got Timber 3 on the comm yet?"


[I couldn't help myself either. ;->]


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:42:11 -0700
From: "Christopher E. Webb" <cwebb@ctos.com>
Subject: SysGen -- system generation software

An update on my software proposal:

 It has received tentative approval from the CS department -- as soon as I
produce a written specification, I'll be given full go-ahead on making the
software for credit (otherwise, I would have done it "just for fun").

 The features I will implement:
 * DOS-based -- I am using the DJGPP C++ compiler.  The software will be
DOS native.  The software is Win95 compatible -- my machine at home and one
of the two machines I have set up at work on campus are Win95 (the other is
Win3.11) and I have _no_ problems running the software from a DOS window on
any of the machines.  I can include .PIF files if needed.  Since I am using
DJGPP, the software is 32 bit protected mode -- I don't know if other
platforms/OS's have issues with implementing the DPMI.  I have run software
compiled in this fashion on Win NT4.0, but I haven't had a Power Mac or
Amiga or anything else to try it out on.
 * [G|T]UI -- There will be a command-line interface (even if I am the only
person to use it) for system generation.  I will also hammer out a
graphical user interface by the time the final round of changes is done
(one step at a time).  In the interim, I will work from a simpler
menu-based interface up to a text-mode UI before tackling the final GUI.
If I can complete the components soon enough, I may be willing to port it
to a Windows environment, but that is the lowest-priority task for the
project and not a requirement presently.
 * Hi-color graphics -- I am currently targetting a screen resolution of
640x480, using 16 bit color.  I will include support for 256 color mode,
also, since one of my development platforms can't support higher color depths.
 * Ability to read formatted text sector data -- I haven't decided how to
choose stars yet (whether or not to use the canon system generation
sources), but I will include the ability to detail sectors automatically
with this software.
 * System "editing" -- SysGen will allow the user to modify a star system
once generated.  The user will be able to move planets, tweak the UWP
ratings, or add/remove planets.  The same editing features will apply, of
course, to the natural satellites.
 * Various system displays -- a) an overview of the system, showing the
primary star and the ellipses of the planetary orbits; b) overview of the
individual worlds, with ellipses of the world's natural satellites; c)
displays of the system (as in 'a)') with moving points representing the
planets; d) displays of the planets with moving points representing
satellites; e) a scaled view of the star system showing the relative sizes
of the planets (& satellites).
 * System UWP info -- for each of the planets and satellites, with options
either to write data to a text file or display it on screen.
 * System generation from several differing starting points -- So that you
can say, "Give me a solar system orbiting a G2V," and <poof>, there it is.
Or, you can say, "Give me a solar system orbiting a G2V with a main world
UWP of C854653-B", and, in a moment, it is there.  Or, you can specifiy
only the UWP & let the software choose a star; or, you can specify the UWP,
and the number of gas giants & planetoid belts; et cetera.

Features that I may implement:
 * Data exchange ability with Metator -- once I have specifications for
what Metator stores and how, I will see if the data I am generating can
work with the Metator data format.
 * Ability to handle multiple-star systems -- the system generation
software I am adapting has no support for binaries/trinaries/n-aries.  When
I get further into my research, I may find a model that allows for multiple
stars.

 What I have right now:
 I've completed a basic test program that simply builds a solar system
around a G2V.  The readable-text details of the system are on the order of
80Kb.  The stored binary data is about 1/4 that size.
 I've also put together a quick-and-dirty graphical display that allows me
to display the system on screen (as a set of concentric ellipses) or to
view planetary motion (as points moving along the concentric ellipses),
zoom in and zoom out on either display, and change the time scale.  The
major axes of the ellipses are co-linear (I'll have that changed this
weekend).

 What I have yet to implement:
 WBH/WTH details about resource availability, resource richness, biological
compatibility, etc.
 Trade Codes.
 Traveller population-related information (allegiance, etc.).
 World/system names.

 System Requirements (expected):
 The DPMI will set the minimum requirements for the software.  SysGen
currently requires the following: 80386 or better CPU, DOS 5.x or higher,
VGA monitor/video card (640x480 screen resolution, 256 or more colors).

 I am going to get my ISP account updated this month so that I have a web
page so that I can upload the software (and interim versions) when it is
ready.

 Any questions or comments, please feel free to direct them to me via
e-mail or the mailing list.

Christopher E. Webb
cwebb@ctos.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #78
*********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Friday, January 30 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 079



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Thoughts on jump drives
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: No, not a jump drive debate again!
[none]
Re: Thoughts on jump drive
Re: No, not a jump drive debate again! (was Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive)
Re: Cyberware, Jump and Battle Rider and Required Execution
Re: Sorry state of affairs ...
Re: Heretics and heathens
Re: Heretics and Heathens
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Brocolli - was +D-D Discussion (renamed)
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Time of Death for Spacing
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Jump Field Interference
Re: Battleriders v. Battleships

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:22:23 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on jump drives

Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:51:24 -0600, "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
> >Unless ships can afford to carry extra weapons for occaisonal
> >special shots, you aren't going to be that interested.
> 
> Ah, there's the rub.  I don't know about the author, but when I read this,
> I thought of planetary defense installations.

I don't see that as a problem, unless the stats for planetary
defense installations are more constrained than I realize.  So
you can build one with 3x more firepower if you have access to
the extra hydrogen....  Does that cause any problems?
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:14:30 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:27:46 -0600, Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
> > The point is that the reason you want to do thing like  go to a gas
> > giant to get hydrogen are clear if it's fusion.  It it's mass you
> > want to jump into jump space, you suddenly need arbitrary reasons
> > why it has to be hydrogen and not some material that, for example,
> > take up less storage space.

> I've never believed that it's *mass* that's required. You need an
> "atmosphere" of gas.

It doesn't matter.  Hydrogen still take up more space because
it is less compressible.

> The fact that it is the _simplest_ and _most abundant_ gas bears
> consideration.

Why does simple matter?  And pure hydrogen is not all that 
abundant in environments were star ports are.  

I don't want to get into "dueling theories" here.  I just
want to point out the broader issue here.  You have a theory
and you want to make sure that it just happens to require
hydrogen, so you focus on the properties of hydrogen and
come up with reason why it has be those.  IMO, this is
never going to work as well as theory that started with
a general principal and chose what makes most sense for
that principal.  It is always going to be apparent that
the theory was made to fit the how things work rather than
the other way around.

[various theories about why it has to be hydrogen deleted.]

> Occam's razor in action! One simple statement explains a lot.

Well, no.  Occam's razor would not have been to have to
invoke special problems with neutrons in the first place
(which still doesn't answer why you don't have a problem
with the ship itself, or with molecules it is sure
to outgas during the trip...)

> The problem I have with "incredibly vast amounts of energy are needed"
> is: exactly how is this energy channelled to jumpspace?

Again, this isn't necessary and is more than you are
requiring for jump bubbles.  Just as the initial supposition
is that somehow an atmosphere of gas protects you against
jump space, here the supposition is that somehow being
anchored in jump space means you can dump energy into
the lanthanum grid without melting it.  

>Since
> energy/matter are equivalent, isn't the visible Universe losing entropy?
> Isn't this a Bad Thing?
> 
> This is why postulating that a "moderate" amount of energy used to
> create a highly exotic and difficult to create energy/particle field
> around the ship -- and this field allows entry into jumpspace -- makes
> more sense to me.

It doesn't matter if you put energy or matter into jump
space, the same situation holds.  Either it all comes
back out when you return, or the Universe is loosing
mass/energy.
 
[Of course canon is that you get a burst of energy when
you come out which fits with the old theory but is something
else you would have to come up with an explination for in
a jump bubble theory.]
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:30:40 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: No, not a jump drive debate again!

Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:30:07 -0600, Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
> The Lanthanum grid was a new explanation at one time.

Though quite a while ago and the need for Lanthanum is pretty
established...

> There is no reason
> why the grid can't coexist with the hydrogen bubble.

Like the broader issue, it's not a question of "can't",
it a question of wjether, once you are done coming
up with reasaon why you need both jump bubble and
a Lanthanum grid, and why other constraint designed 
for the old theory have to apply, things aren't
noticably more arbitrary.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:43:33 -0800
From: summers@alum.mit.edu
Subject: [none]



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:04:33 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on jump drive

Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:24:46 +0100 (MET), Hans Rancke-Madsen
<rancke@diku.dk>
> That is exactly the problem. Why do you need the fuel? The CT jump drive
> had the following characteristics:

> 1)	ALL jump fuel was used BEFORE the ship entered jump space
> 	(Evidence: Drop tanks).

Which actualy argues that you can't be using it to created a
jump bubble....

> 3)	The capacitors of a jump drive held a comparatively small charge

I haven't seen enough to be convinced on this...

> 4)	Even if all energy was applied from outside, you still needed jump
> 	fuel to initiate the jump.

This is based on one interpretation of one sentence (which never
explicitly
said you need more fuel after the energy needs were met and even if it
did, it doesn't prove that you simply don't need to generate energy
after the jump starts and you can't get anymore from the black globe).  
As I said in a previous message, I think it is a long way from being 
established and that sentence conflicts with other comments which
are much more explicitly stated.

> 5)	The hydrogen used for jump fuel had to be in pure form rather than
> 	as a compound like water or ammonia (Both of which gives you more
> 	hydrogen per volume).

Which is also true of the hydrogen being used for maneuver drives,
weapons, etc.  (clearly energy related uses.)

> Oh, yes, one last point: Why would they call it jump fuel if it isn't
> used for fuel? Well, a little bit of it IS used for fuel, and the very
> same substance is used to fuel the power plant, so for convenience it
> is all called fuel rather than distinguish between the part that is used
> for fuel and the part that is used for "access mass".

Well, this is the sort of thing I don't like.  To fit the jump
bubble theory to a situation that was designed around another
theory, you start having to explain things away (like why it's
called fuel when it isn't fuel).  Sure this can be done, but
it leaves things that much harder to accept.  That is why I
prefer to stick with things closer to the original.  It is
always a better idea to limit decisions on things fundamentally
work to the beginning of the design of the background as
much as possbile, at least in my mind.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:42:25 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: No, not a jump drive debate again! (was Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive)

Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:21:34 -0600, "Joseph R. Dietrich"
<yikes@evansville.net>
> >(At least it isn't the piracy debate.  You notice I managed to duck
> >the last time it reared up in spite of the dumb things that got
> >said...  :-)
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I did. Wanna talk about katanas? :-)

Ahhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[The spirit of Dr. Summers' ghost commits hari kari
with a katana after his transponder identifies his
ship as a pirate ships and he is immediately captured
by Imperial military vessels being used to make
piracy impossible....  :-)]

[FNORD
Note:  Dr. Summers recently 
was forced to commit suicide in despair after the
dreaded piracy thread also appeared on the GURPS 
mailing list (previous a haven from that "discussion".
Events  did not improve his ghost was
driven to similar dispair.  Like the Vilani
interacting with the Solomani, and the plague
of Duskir, GURPS Traveller has apparently caused
the mailing lists to infect each other with
some of their flame wars :-)

The issue about whether
the katana has been given "the Japanese Name Bonus"
(tm) is one that has been beaten to death on the
GURPS list as much as piracy has been on the Traveller
mailing list.
FNORD]
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 19:25:16 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Cyberware, Jump and Battle Rider and Required Execution

Ian or Katts wrote:

> Cyberware :
>
> Bloo,
>
> This is mostly my opinion. However, Classic Traveller didnt have rules for
> cyberware, predating Neuromancer as it did. TNE introduced them, together
> with a number of other new ideas.

Two words:  "The Six Million Dollar Man!"  Can you say Bionic?  :-)
Just kidding with you.  Say you lose you arm is some horrible accident.  Wouldn't
you love to get a Str 20 replacement?

I recognize that lack of cyberware/bionics is a choice.  Probably lack of time and
interest.  But there things are getting closer and closer to reality.  As of this
very day, there are prosthetic arms that are touch, pressure, and temperature
sensitive.  There are devices just 500 yards across the river from me (which would
be MIT) that project text and images onto the retinas so that people with sever
vision problems can read.  (its also the first step to the cyberspace that Neal
Stephenson describes in SnowCrash (no 'jacking in,' just using lasers to work on
your retina to give you full 3D peripheral picture.).

In the future, given the pressures of military combat, I just think that some
amount of tinkering is inevitable.  Imagine an Army artillery commander that uses
an artillery computer in his head.  Saves on shipment and can't be stolen.
Internal intertial compasses and maps for navigation?  Pilot-ship syncs that let a
pilot work without having to sit in a bridge in the center of the ship?  Internal
radio transceivers?  Medical self diagnosis readouts?  An aiming computer for
tracking targets?  And these are just ones I can think of with immediate military
implications.

I'm not asking Marc to create another book.  However, I do think an outline of the
relative capabilities by TL would be appropriate.  I understand that some
society's will not use them, that doesn't mean they are unable.  And you can't put
the genie back in the bottle.

I guess the ultimate cyberware is a completely artificial body with only a brain.
Then we're getting close to immorality, maybe?  Assuming proper maintenance and a
cure for Alzheimers.

Just thinking out loud

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 20:01:38 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Sorry state of affairs ...

Volker A. Greimann wrote:

> -> >And I'm assured (from other friends who write for the RPG
> -> >industry) that IG do not "*pay* for it", i.e. their fees are hardly
> -> >extravagant. :-)
> ->
> -> From some of the postings on this list, it would appear that IG seems NOT TO
> -> PAY AT ALL for some of the content they publish.
> ->
> -> Contract-law wise, that means they never really "purchased the rights."
> -> "Purchasing" implies timely payment for services or products rendered.

>  From my understanding of US contract law, there has to be
> consideration if the contract is to be valid.

Yes, but the significance of the consideration will not be examined.  As long as
the consideration was not illusory or the contract unconscionable, it'll probably
stand (although some states are increasingly willing to look at the contract for
fairness).  If one party has significantly more bargaining power, they will look at
it more closely.

> If none has been agreed
> upon, the contract is not valid. If: as here, there has been
> consideration agreed upon, but on side is not fulfilling it's side of
> the contract, the other side can sue for payment or voiding the
> contract.

Failing to pay, in a reasonable time, is breach of the contract.The non-breaching
party can then sue for expectation damages (how much you expected to make),
reliance damages (how much you spent relying on the other part to fulfill the
contract - often called 'out-of-pocket' expenses), and/or restitution damages (what
they took from you).

Of course, as Volker intimates, one parties performance is excused by the other's
breach.  They don't pay, you don't play.

> However, do not, i repeat do not wait to long, because
> their duty to pay will not exist forever, at some point, if you don't
> sue, it will void by itself, you getting nothing, and IG keeping the
> rights!

Umm, the way you've stated this, Volker, it sounds extreme, but the more I think
about it, the more eloquently you've stated it.  There is no per se time limit for
contract suits.  Although, in most US states, failure to bring a claim within a
certain time period after the cause of the claim has arisen, will result in the
courts not allowing the action to proceed.  There are 2 common periods in the US: 3
years and 6 years, some states use 5, I don't know of any shorter than 3.  These
apply to all civil, i.e., non-criminal, claims.  This is the statute of
limitations.

Having said all that, guess what?  ITS MORE COMPLICATED THAN THAT (Sorry for the
caps).  Of course, as faithful users of all things traveller and veterans of the
QSDS, the SSDS, and FFS2, etc. you knew nothing is ever as easy at it seems.

We're dealing here with Copyrights.  And the law here gets messy.  At least its not
software which many judges are completely unable to understand, the young ones
maybe saw Pong, once, on TV.  They're used to Univac sized stuff and dont know a
meg from a gig, except that gigget had her own TV show (thats a joke).

Copyright law is Federal, which means state laws don't mean diddly-squat (not sure
how to translate for our non-Norte Americanos  - Diddly Squat is Jack Squat's
younger and smaller brother).

The literary works you've created may be "works for hire," which is a fancy way of
saying you were never the "author" for legal purposes.  However, since most of you
all don't actually work at or for IG, you probably wouldn't have to worry about
this.


Disclaimer:
I am not yet a lawyer.
I cannot advise you in legal matters or represent anyone in a legal proceeding.
I can talk about what my understanding of the law is.

I am curious, though, and I do know lots of lawyers.  Some who even specialize in
copyright law.  Riddle me this (Purely for my own enlightenment and not for any
purpose inconsistent with the disclaimer above):

Where is IG?
  Doh!  Beverly Hills, CA.  Well, you see, thats your problem right there!  :-)
Is IG owned by someone else?
How many of you haven't been paid?
How much haven't you been paid?
Did you sign a contract before you submitted your work or after?
What are the terms of the contract?

I happen to know (electronically anyway), an entertainment/copyright lawyer in Los
Angeles who runs LawGirl.Com   http://ww.lawgirl.com/
You might want to take a look at her pages concerning copyright law.

Although, individually, most of your claims aren't worth the costs involved, in the
aggregate, they might be.  Also, they are things a lawyer can do for you short of
going to court; I don't know why but letters from lawyers tend to result in payment
of debts outstanding.  Funny thing that.

There's alway the better business bureaus.

You could call the game distributers and let them know that Marc has just made all
the stock they bought obsolete?  Well, that might be a little on the pure evil
side.  That wouldn't be a good idea.

How about calls to the IG accounts payable department person in the wee hours of
California time?


> ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
> -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
> ------- check out: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061 ------------
> Student of Law,

Hey, hey, I'm not the only Law Student here (only 4 months to go!).
Wie Gehts, Herr Greimann?

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 20:07:42 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Heretics and heathens

Sanders wrote:

> Give us all a break and take the Christian bashing elsewhere.
>
> Paul

But whats a pogrom between friends?

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 20:09:45 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Heretics and Heathens

ASlack@synetics.co.uk wrote:

> Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
> 01/30/98 01:56 PM
>
> <<Legate wrote:
> Thank you for the information.  The Great Unwashed are still around
> >>
>
> I believe it. For years, my father-in-law (himself tolerant of other
> religions - he let me, a foreign heretic, marry his daughter) would
> occasionally test people's views on this matter by saying: "I think they
> should kill all barbers and Jews."
>
> He reports that the most common answer he got was "Why barbers?"
>
> Scary, isn't it?

Probably Barbary Coast Pirates.  He wouldn't happen to be  reallt, really
old  U.S. Marine Corps vet, would he?  :-)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:35:45 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:09:25 -0500, hal@buffnet.net
> Essentially, the logic is as follows:
> 
> 1) if it can happen accidentally - it implies that it can happen again -
> deliberately.
> 
> 2) a lot of man's early achievements were the result of noticing something
> that happens naturally, and trying to recreate the circumstances by which
> it occurred
> 
>   Just as an example of what I am talking about.  If it is known that mass
> affects the chances of a misjump, that would be a starting point in the
> research and developement of the "misjump" theory.  If a misjump can, with
> only 10% of the volume of a ship, along with a Jump1 engine set up -
> produce a jump 36 result - how can it be done deliberately?  From there, I
> would hazard a guess that scientists would use mathematical models (the
> same models used to produce normal astrogation programs I would guess) as
> well as robotic machines hooked to a jump drive.

>   In any case - misjumps contradict the "logic" of jumpspace in a major
> way, and should be removed (IMHO).  However - this is NOT canon...

It's not, IMO, that bad.  The problem is that you either have to 
risk people or have a probe.  If a probe gets thrown 36 parsec off 
in a random direction (and sticking with cannon that machines can't 
handle jump without human help), you would have to wait decades to get 
the info back from each experiment.  People might not have a problem
with finding their way back 36 parsecs, but they might object to the
fact nothing every comes back at all.  (And as to making sure you
always get the "emerges at a random spot" result, that restriction
might depend on a variable that doesn't even occur to you.  Like the
net kinetic energy of the to 10% of the neutrinos that happen to
be passing by when you jump).

While this means that the misjump effect has the potential to
be used for >jump 6, it is also reasonable that solving it is
simply to difficult and dangerous to assay.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:15:39 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

In mail you write:

> Legate wrote:
>
>>Shadow wrote:
>
>>>Legate wrote:
>
>>>>why waste a good ship.  If you have the plans
>>>>for a jump drive, why not retrofit it with Jump Drive after you have
>>>>arrived?
>
>>>Because if you are sending an STL ship on a journey that takes a
>>>millenium, you don't *have* the jump drive!
>>
>>You would think that in that period of time they could develop jump drive,
>>but that is just me.
>
> You know, when this thread was introduced, I remember thinking that by the
> time they got there there would already be a fully developed colony, well
> into the mature level.

That theme has been used in a *lot* of SF over the years. Here's a filk
song on the subject.

            Space is Dark (words & music: Bill Roper)

Chorus:
	Space is dark and space is deep,
	And the price we've paid is far too steep.
	Though we've gained a hero's name,
	We're all cripples just the same,
	And the scars we bear will testify
	To the pain we've found beyond the sky.

We set out in our starship in twenty-forty-nine,
Sent to ply the galaxy, another earth to find.
They put us in our coffins and gently closed the lid.
And if I'd known then what I know now, I'd've wished we'd wake up dead.

And so we flew a thousand years through interstellar space.
Light years seperated us from the human race.
Then at last we slowed as we approached our target star,
And now we'd find the reason that we'd travelled so far.

CHORUS

As we awoke from frozen sleep, we each knew what to do.
We'd scan the sky about the star for a planet shining blue.
We'd pull into an orbit, and check her atmosphere,
And run a half a hundred tests to see if she proved fair.

We'd monitor the radio so that we could see
If there were any aliens who'd come here before we.
Then from our receiver a tiny voice we heard,
And it spoke to us in English and we understood each word.

CHORUS

Ten years we had been on our way when they found the hyperdrive,
And man spread to a thousand stars while we were half alive.
But still they could not stop our ship to save us from our fate.
And so we have arrived here but nine hundred years too late.

They told us we were heroes, pinned medals on our chests,
And they gave us a fine pension and sent us off to rest.
For we're anachronisms from another place and time,
And so they have retired us though we're all still in our prime.

CHORUS

And of the ten men in our crew, but two of us remain,
For trapped here in the future, we all have gone insane.
We knew when we set out that we'd be gone a thousand years,
But we never thought we'd end up as unwanted pensioneers.

And soon we two will follow where the other eight have gone,
And then our long sad journey will finally be done.
In the next room waiting is my time-lost lonely wife,
And I'll see her one last time as we take each other's life.


Bit of a downer, no?

Consensus in the SF community is that going on a sleeper ship or a
generation ship is a *bad* bet.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:08:10 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

>I have a question for all those involved with this tread -- there was an
>adventure way back in CT, ( I think it was in a Journal article), entitled
>Annic Nova. That ship used "solar collectors" to power its jump engines.
>Once you charged up, you could jump. No Liquid Hydrogen was needed. I think
>it used a solar sail to travel in system. Doesn't this technology negate
>arguments like the one above which hand-wave the need for hydrogen as a
>material component for jump, or is it just accepted that CT canon has been
>changed/evolved on this issue?

The Journal was like this ML, a place to propose new concepts.  People tried
them out and the writers got feed back.  If the feedback was appropriate,
then someone would make a statement adding a concept to canon.  One article
in the JTAS doesn't make a thing canon.  Just like if the list decided that
something we discuss here is good, until Marc says it's canon, it ain't
canon.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:30:10 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Brocolli - was +D-D Discussion (renamed)

SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> wrote:

>Thinking again, if the Hresh ever want to start a jihad against the K'Kree
>does anyone want to help?

Only if I can export the carcasses!  (Yummm, tastes like beef.  No, it
tastes like chicken.  Beef.  Chicken.  Beef!  Chicken!!)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:14:50 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

><<I just found out I can compress the disk, so I'm not really worried.>>
>
>What you really need is the TL9 Compact-A-Gig.  Only drawback to this is
>it takes a whale of a lot of hydrogen to open the compressor...

Let's see at TL 9 would that be 10% of the mass of the hard drive, or is
that 10% of the mass of the system?  If so, does that include the monitor
and stand?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:34:20 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Time of Death for Spacing

Marc wrote:

>I'm going to abbreviate the process to +D -D. Will that work?

Since it doesn't sound like anyone is going to use it (except at
tournaments), I guess it doesn't matter what you call it.  ;-)

Seriously though, has anyone playtested it?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:41:22 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Hal wrote:

>  Just as an example of what I am talking about.  If it is known that mass
>affects the chances of a misjump, that would be a starting point in the
>research and developement of the "misjump" theory.  If a misjump can, with
>only 10% of the volume of a ship, along with a Jump1 engine set up -
>produce a jump 36 result - how can it be done deliberately?  From there, I
>would hazard a guess that scientists would use mathematical models (the
>same models used to produce normal astrogation programs I would guess) as
>well as robotic machines hooked to a jump drive.  Best place that I can
>think of to work on this?  The rifts...  Out there, there would be a lot of
>open space that one can work off of and not worry about what happens to the
>ship itself (in case some really catestophic things happen!).
>
>  In any case - misjumps contradict the "logic" of jumpspace in a major
>way, and should be removed (IMHO).  However - this is NOT canon...

I would guess that the scientist who study this periodically would all come
to the same conclusion.  You can cause a misjump in all kinds of ways.  Even
predictable ways.  You just can't control the outcome.  I wouldn't have any
problem with being able to misjump, just because you wanted to.  Being able
to control a misjump is another matter.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 19:34:12 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Jump Field Interference

Walter G. Smith <smithw@hartwick.edu> wrote:


>Something I was thinking of with the recent discussions on using all that
hydrogen jump fuel to construct a real-space energized particle field:
>
>How big would such field be? I don't have the chemistry or physics formulas
handy, but isn't a Jump-5 vessel dumping half it's volume in compressed
hydrogen, then energizing it? And of course, the more energy you add to a
gas cloud, the farther apart the atoms get, the more the volume increases...

I had the impression that most of it was sent ahead of the ship into jump
space to make the tunnel.
And that only the stuff in the surge tank was actually pumped out around the
ship, to add an extra buffer space.  The hydrogen isn't even around the ship
until it is in jump space.  So, you don't have to worry about baddies
disrupting it.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 22:39 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Battleriders v. Battleships

Moin Merrick Burkhardt,

> I think that in terms of *tonnage* BRs (with tender) will wipe the
> floor with BBs. It's been a long time since I messed around with HG,
> however. Obviously it depends on what combat system you are using.

	as said in BBvsBR I, if an overwhelming force attacks, victory
	can be nearly sure. The BR only have a problem, when they are in
	the lower position. A BB can jump out.

> As a result it is very luck based, the first good roll
> wipes the other guy out---actually, spinal weapons beingone shot
> kills on anything is looking more like canon ;-)

	Well from a certain point, a BR/BB will show a turtle aproach:
	Good defenses to stand in the line of battle, is for more
	importance than having first strike weapons. If screens are bigger
	than meson guns, and if armor is superior to any PA, the "temporary
	damage - ship explodes" or "temporary damage - screen" can kill.
	The great equaliser in TNE:BR are of course missiles, they can make
	a 6 points hit, and can cause 2 points of permanent damage even to
	large vessels. For this reason the Valor Corvette has a high value.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #79
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Saturday, January 31 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 080



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Long Jump Theory (was Thoughts on Jump Drive)
Tasks and such
Re: Canon thoughts
Re: Decompression/T4.1 Hit System
Re: Jump Gates
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Death and Dying
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Battleriders v. Battleships
Re: Heretics and heathens
Re: Gravity Shields
Re: Jump Drive Matter Issue
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Brocolli - was +D-D Discussion (renamed)
Re: 
Re: Thoughts on jump drive
Re: Heretics and heathens
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Brocolli - was +D-D Discussion (renamed)
Re: Pocket Empires Ideas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 98 02:36 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Long Jump Theory (was Thoughts on Jump Drive)

Moin Richard A. Flores,

> Once could be an accident.  But twice?  No.  So the 36 above was no typo.
> Ok, how do you figure?  What did you read that made you think you can get 36
> parsecs out of a jump drive engine?  (I'm not being critical, I'm looking
> for the spark.)

	From: Jump Theory Research Group (Platon)	31-1201
	To: Gushemege Mercantile Guild (Usdiki)
	Distribution: classified

	Recent analysis on the miss jump occurances of our Roaches Class
	of vessels, allowed to predict and partly influence miss jumps.
	This is the second time that JTRG-Platon managed a break through
	over imperial standard. Even if we know that the Roach has not
	the strategic value a perfect Jump Torpedo could have, because
	of the high likelihood of miss jumps. The leak of the information
	to the Regency, caused their fear of our superiority and massive
	research on their side to build Jump Torpedos also. As long they
	have just managed to reduce the size to 55dt, if our intelligence
	is true. Even if the influenced miss jump, could be considered a
	greater bluff, than the working Jump Torpedos, using SuSAG contacts
	to inform the Regency should be considered.

	Their fear, that we have attack weapons, we don't use because of our
	peacefulness, gave us a not at war opportunity to develop during
	the last 50 years.

	The experiment : We modified a Milavi-12-350 to use a Roaches
	mainframe for jump calculation, who was known to be insane
	since jump and miss jumped all the time. A second mainframe at
	TL:16 from Platon production, was between the Roaches mainframe
	and the jump control computer, using dynamical firewalling
	bridging for communication to avoid cross infections, to recalculate
	the given data, and to initiate jump. The key is sorting those
	jumps out who are J1 miss jumps and have a high likelihood of
	falling in the right direction, and most important being non
	cataclysm.

	The first jump was trail wards from Platon deep into Tansa, where
	the ship needed about 2 weeks of repair. The second jump went
	rim wards to avoid ending in a rift, and exits in upper Truax
	where the ship was found by a prospector two month later, who
	sent for a Kazuo JumpPort to repair. Well the Milavi had its
	home run inside the dock, reducing the Kazuo to J3, as its jump
	drive was beyond repair.

	Conclusion: Using an insane computer for calculation, and a sane
	at TL:16 for cross/checking/sorting, points of chaos can be found,
	showing a high likelihood of a miss jump in the "right" direction.
	We should build a handful experimental ships containing at least
	3 jump drives and as much independed computer networks, to use
	them in courier service. Center of the operation should be
	Kamurinmur, as this would both show our strength there, and is
	a more save landing than the Rurevayn. Even if we know that this
	would be an expensive enterprise, its a necessarily that we show
	them up and running before the Regency itself is able build
	2m3-sealed jump drives.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 98 01:06 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Tasks and such

Moin Glenn Crawford,

> Dice pools.
> Any comments?

	put this together with the new +D-D and we end like SR with every
	has to roll 20+ dice.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 22:56 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Canon thoughts

Moin Greg Smith,

> Kinunir Class was 1250 tons...

	When we played it, it was an impressing ship. Bigger than anything
	a character has been on before. When I now look at combat value, I
	can only say " its a colonial cruiser - able for diplomatic missions
	and patrol " or to be precise " its worthless in fleet actions - as
	it should only engage minor vessels " but its nice as an experimental
	vessel, with its AI for crew reduction and black globe for defense.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 23:06 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Decompression/T4.1 Hit System

Moin Leonard Erickson,

> That's where the idea of a "skin suit" comes from. It's basicly a
> *close* fitting elastic leotard, with padding in the areas where the
> body isn't convex. 

	I can remember, spacers wearing the skin suite for month, are
	calling save areas "suitless" - oh hell, what a smell ;-)

	The best thing to say about jump torpedos, is that nobody has
	to smell the spacer, exept himself.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 98 00:27 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Jump Gates

Moin Frank G. Pitt,

> It's not really non-canon. The Gazelle class close escort and numerous
> other vessels from the CT period had L-hyd drop tanks, allowing
> them the additional fuel and lower mass to boost their Jump capabilty.

	Well the later Gazelle (TNE-FFS1) had its fuel calculated that
	internal tank was ok for J5, while drop tanks allowed " J3 -
	drop tank - J5 " double jump, or " J3 - drop tank - engage
	in battle with full HEPlaR tanks " operations.

	imho A ship needs BOTH power and fuel to sustain a jump. In my
	canon, a jump once completely initiated that the ship is behind
	its event horizion, ALLWAYS reach its destination. Carefully
	usage of fuel, accellerated at C avoids that the jump bubble
	collapsed because of the "pressure" of the event horrision -
	heck we are talking about an artificial tempoary black hole,
	if we view such a jump from outside - If it collapsed, it will
	also exit jump space within a week, but converted by E=MC^2.

	NCO: " we have 4000 tonnes C^2 white out, could it be the xBoat ? "

	Even the standart jump explosion can be viewed with human eye, as
	the LHy bas to tunnel out of the event horrision, before the ship
	itself exits. Those 40% of fuel of an xBoat is a lot of energy !

	This has of course tactical implications. A fleet that exits at 100
	diameter, will produce a white out for one turn. Unfortuntely itself
	will exit AFTER the white out, so anybody knows arriving ships, and
	if the planet has advanced defense, its sushi - dead fish.

	So fleets take the advantage and exit somewhere deep in the system.
	BB and BRs receive tanker support, TF and BT jump out.  The timelag
	now allows the fighting part of the fleet to have advantage. They'll
	make anybody blind in X seconds, when the photons of their jump
	explosion arives at sensors. The fleet itself have operating
	sensors (looking some hours in the past, of course) from the first
	second after exit. But when the jump explosion is seen, attackers had
	long set course and are silently* drifting towards one of the GGs
	or the mainworld.

	The defending force will know "we are under attack within the next
	days". But they dont know where and when - it will be most likely
	be an "unimportant" and "badly defended" target, but to send ships
	now would be bad timing.

By Michael

	*silently means of course: no HEPlaR, fusion plant powered down,
	 life support on fuel cells, sand all around. At higher TLs black
	 globes can help for such a operation  - ships only make sound in
	 bad movies ;-( exept if we are talking about submarines ;-)
- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:41:42 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

In mail you write:

> Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
> 01/30/98 11:27 AM
>
> <<
> What feels arbitrary to me is the theory that Jump Drives are capable of
> generating a huge amount of energy in an impossibly short amount of time
> by consuming vast amounts of fuel. Yet, strangely, this process cannot
> be used in "regular" energy production. How can that paradox be
> reconciled?
>>>
>
> I have a mental image of a man in overalls outside a power plant talking to
> a journalist who asked him this :)
>
> "We don't use this for power plants, 'cos every time you turn the sucker on
> it disappears into jumpspace for a week. At least, we think it's a week. We
> haven't got one back yet. We don't think it can be more than 36 parsecs
> away, though, so we should find it eventually..."
>
> Andy :)

You know, you may have something there. Rocket engines generate truly
*incredible* amounts of power. But you can't "use" the power for
anything except propulsion without downgrading them rather severely.

So I got this silly idea. What if a J-drive turns the hydrogen into
some sort of "energy" that isn't *usable* for anything except jump. Of
course, this means that the "jump capacitors" or whatever they are
can't be used for storing power either. 

Say that just as a rocket engine turns thermal energy in directed
motion, a j-drive turns the "binding energy" of the fusing atoms into
warping of space time. 

One thing that'd help decide if this handwave is workable, is if
nuclear damper tech shows up at or near jump tech. I don't remember,
and since MT is the latest stuff I've got, I can't be sure.

If this works, the "jump capacitors" (or whatever you use to store the
"power") might be something that "stores" the power by "expanding" one
of the 7 dimensions of space time that are currently "wrapped"
(theories say that the universe has 11 dimensions. It's just that in
the extra 7 "directions" the distance around the circumference of the
universe is smaller than an atomic nucleus.). 

This is something that you might try to do as a means of getting around
the lightspeed barrier. We can state that it doesn't work, but that if
you take the "energy" from when the '"inflated" dimensions snap back to
normal and feed it ito a J-drive, it lets you enter jumpspace and make
a jump.

This gives the evolutionary path of the drive as this:

First they try to build something that allows expanding the extra
dimensions big enough to get a ship into. These efforts do manage to
cause some expansion, but they can't get the expansion to a useful size
*and* they can't maintain the expansion for more than about 30 minutes.

Collapse of the expansion field tends to be rather spectacular. Much of
the energy ppumped in comes back out as heat.

Various attempts at stabilizing the expansion they *can* get lead to a
device that surprises researchers when the collapse of the expansion
field causes the entire apparatus (and a lot of surrounding items) to
vanish. 

There are no injuries as the standard precautions against an
uncontrolled collapse of the field dictate that the experiment be
carried out in a sort of bunker well away from anything important, and
controlled remotely.

Various sorts of beacons and recording gear are added to the units, in
the hopes of finding out where they go. Finally a group that is testing
out in space (in an asteroid belt) puts a unit in free space, more than
100 diameters from their asteroid lab. Several weeks later, the beacon
is picked up. Jump has been discovered. 

The problem is that while they know it work, they don't know *why* it
works. They've finally figured out that the "expansion" gizmos *didn't*
cause the jump. Instead, it was the "stabilizer" that somehow does it
*using* the controlled collapse of the expansion field. 

Jump physics is rather an empirical science. They try things, and see
what happens. 

BTW, this *could* give an explanation for why there seems to be a "jump
6" limit, and why it's so hard to go for j1 to J2, J2 to J3, etc. 

Those extra 7 dimensions each key into a *specific* jumpspace. And the
J1 space is associated with the dimension that's easiest to try to
expand. So to increase J number, you have to figure out how to work
with a *new* one of the dimensions (and they can be as different as
space and time). 

So some suspect that J 7 is the limit. Others look at misjump and
wonder if there are *other* "micro-dimensions" that our theories don't
cover, or that combos of dimensions may be involved. But since misjumps
are so disastrous (and *expensive*) they can't do many experiments. 

I just came up with this off the top of my head. But I think it has
possibilities. It's still technobabble, but it seems to fit together
nicely *and* explain some of the oddities about jump drives.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 02:39:50 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Death and Dying

On Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:13:33 +0000, SD Mooney wrote:

> jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay) wrote:
> 
> >England!?!  Pubs!?!  I'm a packin' me bags rIght noww!
> 
> Why not come to EuroGenCon...? ;-)

Does this mean I have a place to stay?

> This is the UK - I think we have tomato or barbeque sauce for McNuggets IIRC.

BBQ sauce has been done to death.  I'd be willing to take a couple of kilos
of your famous British Smarties, instead :)



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mono au mono, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:18:48 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

In mail you write:

> Excellent. So if realspace momentum is conserved in jump, you will jump
> insystem and poof! an expanding cloud of hydrogen appears out of nowhere,
> flying down your previous trajectory. You then make a course change and
> exit the cloud. Some time later:
>
> "Sir, I see their emergence cloud. When they jumped insystem they had a
> vector of 233 mark 15. Judging by the dispersion, I'd say they've been here
> a couple of hours."

Just a minor quibble. You need more than two numbers to specify
*someone else's* vector. You can specify your own *heading* that way.
And you can specify their heading that way. But to specify a *vector*,
you need an origin cordinate. And that takes *three* numbers (either
X,Y, and Z, or Rho, Theta, and dex). 

So it should be:

"Emergence plotted at 233 mark 15, range 2.5 gigameters. Heading of
 emergence cloud is 135 mark 85."

That'd mean that the ship emerged 233 degrees from the "zero" direction
in the reference plane, 15 degrees above it, at a distance of 2.5
million km. The heading you can figure out on your own. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 20:08:47 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Battleriders v. Battleships

 
> 	as said in BBvsBR I, if an overwhelming force attacks, victory
> 	can be nearly sure. The BR only have a problem, when they are in
> 	the lower position. A BB can jump out.
 
Yeah, but each tender with ships is a unit. Each BR can take out a
BB---whoever hits first wins in HG, right? So a Tender with 2 BRs
will kill any BB. And that combo of tender +2 BRs might even be
cruiser size. I'd say the BBs are *always* outnumbered since
published tenders (in BR) carry 6 BRs. 

> 	Well from a certain point, a BR/BB will show a turtle aproach:
> 	Good defenses to stand in the line of battle, is for more
> 	importance than having first strike weapons. If screens are bigger
> 	than meson guns, and if armor is superior to any PA, the "temporary
> 	damage - ship explodes" or "temporary damage - screen" can kill.

I was talking HG for the most part in the one shot one kill type of
"canon" it creates. In BR the first Outstanding sucess kills you
with a spinal MG. defenses mean nothing in BR, if you beat the
screen by any real amount (from an Outstanding success) you will go
through the screen. The attack will be DV-screen and will do
multiple criticals in BR. PAWs aren't serious weapons in BR (the
game). They have more use in HG, though.

> 	The great equaliser in TNE:BR are of course missiles, they can make
> 	a 6 points hit, and can cause 2 points of permanent damage even to
> 	large vessels. For this reason the Valor Corvette has a high value.

That's why I never used their missile rules, it was the _first_
thing I threw away. The fact that all the tasks in BR are one level
too easy doesn't help, either! (check out the task mapping to TNE in
the back of BR and you'll see what I mean)

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 19:33:01 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Heretics and heathens

In mail you write:

> Give us all a break and take the Christian bashing elsewhere.

Paul, it's *not* Christian bashing. It is, alas the truth. There *are*
people like that. Even priests/ministers. *I* don't consider such
people to *be* Christians, regardless of what they call themselves.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 19:09:20 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Gravity Shields

traveller@mpgn.com writes:

>> By "inverse escape velocity", I mean the speed that would be escape
>> velocity if the field was attractive instead of repulsive. 
>> 
>> In any case, you can see that this is *way* beyond available tech.
>
> What tech level would you guess it to be?

Figure out what acceleration is required at the surface of the ship.
Then see what TL gives you g-comps that good. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com	<--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com	<--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 19:23:37 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Jump Drive Matter Issue

In mail you write:

> In a message dated 1/29/98 11:53:33 PM, Hal wrote:
>
>>One futher proviso however: the
>>hydrogen used to create the bubble must exit from hyperspace along with
>>the ship - otherwise, our universe will be losing mass every time someone
>>jumps - thus seemingly violating the LAW: convservation of energy...
>
> Conservation of energy seems to apply to closed systems, but it's really not
> clear that the "Law" applies to the universe as a whole.

Sorry, wrong answer. It was determined quite a few years back that the
conservation laws are actually just another way of stating certain
"invariances". It's called Neother's theorem. 

Conservation of energy is just a way of saying that the laws of physics
don't change over time.

Conservation of momentum is a way of saying that the laws don't change
with *location*. And conservation of angular momentum is a way of
saying that they don't change with *direction* (ie the laws are the
same when you face east, as when you face north).

So the boks *do* have to balance, or things get a bit too weird to deal
with.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:28:55 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

In mail you write:

>>  In all, the above mentioned seem more reasonable than being "warped" out
>>in a manner the implies that there are more "undiscovered" physics behind
>>the jump universe.  To be honest with you all, I wonder why, in 1,000
>>years, no one has bent their scientists to the realization that if a jump
>>1 ship can jump 36 parsecs on 10% fuel, using the drive configuration of
>>jump 1 - to the idea of making it a reality?

Easy. To make it *reproducible*, you are going to have to perform
"controlled" experiments. That is, do *deliberate* misjumps, while
attempting to control the variables, and then get make *extensive*
observations when it emerges. And finally, you need to get the ship
back. 

Doing that *once* is expensive. Doing it enough times to collect a
reasonable set of data is going to be *hideously* expensive. Heck,
until J-3 or so, the odds of getting the ship back are pretty slim. 

And don't forget that the circumstances that can result in a misjump
can also result in the *destruction* of the ship! Plus, since many of
the circumstances are things like lack of engineers, or overdue
maintenance, we don't *know* what caused the misjump.

You need a high J number *and* a large enough "empire" that all the
likely destinations are inside your borders. Plus a lot of luck.

As it is, I bet most governments will pay a premium for *good* (ie
reliable and reasonably certain to be untampered with) data from ships
that *have* misjumped.

> Once could be an accident.  But twice?  No.  So the 36 above was no typo.
> Ok, how do you figure?  What did you read that made you think you can get 36
> parsecs out of a jump drive engine?  (I'm not being critical, I'm looking
> for the spark.)

Read the misjump rules. Here's a quote from The Traveller Book:

"A misjump is an unpredictable random jump. Throw one die to determine
the number of dice thrown (1-6); throw that number of dice to determine
the distance of the misjump in hexes. Then throw one die to determine
the direction of the misjump (one of the six directions possible on the
hex grid). Finally, throw one die to determine the number of weeks
spent in jump space before the ship re-emerges at its new location."

So if the first roll is a 6, you roll 6 dice for distance. If all six
come up sixes, that's 36 hexes. 

If I was going to re-write that rule, I'd consider two changes. First,
I'd make the initial roll be 1-Jn. So for a J1 ship, you roll 1 die.
For a J-2, you roll 1-2, J3, 1-3, etc. Second, I'd tie the number of
weeks to the number of dice rolled for distance.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:56:55 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

In mail you write:

> I believe the answer to that was given by Glenn,  "...[hydrogen] is the
> simplest, most abundant element in the universe."  It's simplicity would
> surely be attractive in calculating it's characteristics as a normal space
> matterial in the jump bubble.  It's abundance will obiously make it less
> costly to use.

And if the "calculations" involve the quantum properties, the
complexity of the calculations goes up *exponentially* with the number
of particles in the atom.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 19:14:47 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Brocolli - was +D-D Discussion (renamed)

In mail you write:

>>SD Mooney wrote:
>>
>>>Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hmm. That looks rude, which is not my intent, so please let me clarify by
>>>>analogy: I don't like broccoli, and I don't eat them. That doesn't mean I
>>>>want to stop stores carrying broccoli, or stop other people eating
>>>>broccoli, or think any the worse of broccoli farmers.
>>>
>>>The Hresh embassy on Dingir wishes to lodge an official complaint to the
>>>Solomani racialists who are prejudiced against those of a vegetative
>>>nature... ;-)
>>
>>Which leads me to wonder, how would a Hresh taste with cheese sauce?
>>
>
> I don't know, but for a price I know a crew of smugglers that would be
> willing to get you a sample ;^>
>
> Thanks for the adventure hook.

If you are going to do something that "socially unacceptable", you
might as well get a few sides of K'kree. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 21:15:04 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: 

Did it work?

- -----Original Message-----
From: summers@alum.mit.edu <summers@alum.mit.edu>
To: undisclosed-recipients:; <undisclosed-recipients:;>
Date: Friday, January 30, 1998 7:16 PM

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 21:41:51 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on jump drive

David P. Summers <summers@alum.mit.edu> wtote:

>> Oh, yes, one last point: Why would they call it jump fuel if it isn't
>> used for fuel? Well, a little bit of it IS used for fuel, and the very
>> same substance is used to fuel the power plant, so for convenience it
>> is all called fuel rather than distinguish between the part that is used
>> for fuel and the part that is used for "access mass".
>
>Well, this is the sort of thing I don't like.  To fit the jump
>bubble theory to a situation that was designed around another
>theory, you start having to explain things away (like why it's
>called fuel when it isn't fuel).  Sure this can be done, but
>it leaves things that much harder to accept.  That is why I
>prefer to stick with things closer to the original.  It is
>always a better idea to limit decisions on things fundamentally
>work to the beginning of the design of the background as
>much as possbile, at least in my mind.

Here's a thought, why are words called fuel?  Oh, yes they are.  As in the
expression "fuel for thought" or "fuel for the debate (or argument)".  Are
words fuel?  No, but they act like fuel, they start or keep something going.
What is LHyd?  It's a fuel, it's a coolant, if it's cold enough and under
sufficient compression, it's even a metal.  My point is, when you think of
LHyd, what do you think of?  Probably fuel.  LHyd is required to start a
jump drive.  So, naturally you would call it fuel.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 20:58:47 -0700
From: "Suz Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Heretics and heathens

> OTOH, you *were* in a place called the "Rusty Pelican."  That *sounds* like
> an establishment that dispenses alcoholic beverages, yes?  And were talking
> to a Mother that brought her little girl into that environment. Says
> something about what you were dealing with, perhaps.

The Rusty Pelican is supposed to be one of the nicer fish/seafood 
restaurants in Phoenix. Its been a *long* time since I've eaten 
there. I'm certain it has a bar, but then so do most restaurants. 
Dive bars in Phoenix aren't found on the waterfront... ;>

Suz 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:18:45 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Shadow wrote:
[snip]
>So I got this silly idea. What if a J-drive turns the hydrogen into
>some sort of "energy" that isn't *usable* for anything except jump. Of
>course, this means that the "jump capacitors" or whatever they are
>can't be used for storing power either.

The jump capacitors are for storing the rebound energy you can't disapate
upon emergence.

>Say that just as a rocket engine turns thermal energy in directed
>motion, a j-drive turns the "binding energy" of the fusing atoms into
>warping of space time.
>
>One thing that'd help decide if this handwave is workable, is if
>nuclear damper tech shows up at or near jump tech. I don't remember,
>and since MT is the latest stuff I've got, I can't be sure.

FF&S2 says  Jump Drives are introduced at TL9 and Nuclear Dampers at TL12.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:37:12 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Brocolli - was +D-D Discussion (renamed)

Shadow wrote concerning my purulent interest in the taste of Hresh in cheese
sauce:

>If you are going to do something that "socially unacceptable", you
>might as well get a few sides of K'kree.

I have considered that myself.  I still wanna know do they taste like
chicken or beef?

OBTW, someone lurking over my shoulder has asked, "Wouldn't that be
cannibalism?"

I tried to explain why it wouldn't be, but I need someone else to validate
what I said, and I have been told that I can't say what I said because then
you would just say yes to get me out of trouble.

Would someone on the list explain why it wouldn't be.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 20:09:18 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Pocket Empires Ideas

In mail you write:

> Miscellaneous Adds to POCKET EMPIRES
>
> Resources and Infrastructure:
>
> System Contents
> For tech level 8 or less do not add planetoid belts and gas giants to the
> resources score.  At tech level 9,  add only half the planetoid and gas
> giant numbers (round up). Only add the full numbers at tech level A+.
>
> Star Type
> The star type modifier is added to the resources roll. This
> represents the overall value of the system. Smaller stars would
> capture chunks of rock rather than metal, new stars do not have any
> resources yet (still forming> ). 

Stars don't "capture" chunks of rock or metal. Stars form from clouds
of gas and dust. The gas condenses into tiny ice particles. The ice and
dust accumulate into "dirty snowballs. These collide, and form bigger
snowballs. At the same time the whole mess is contracting under its own
gravity. 

The star forms in the center, the planets and planetoids form from the
snowballs farther out. So the available materials are the *same*. 

When bodies get big enough, heat from radioactive isotopes can cause
partial melting. That causes the dust to settle towards the core, which
causes even higher temps. Large enough bodies differentiate into a
layer of ice over a layer of rock over a metallic core.

Close enough to the star, the heat and solar wind (which is *much*
stroner in forming stars and very young stars) drive off the ice on the
nearer bodies unless they are *very* large. They can even drive off
some of the elements in the "rocky" layer (Mercury is a *lot* denser
than Earth from this effect). 

In the outer regions of the system the gases lost by the inner system
get drawn in by the bodies there. In the middle ranges, collisions
between planetesmals can knock large chunks of the stony layers off of
each other, as well as break off chunks of the metal core.

So smaller planets will have metals, but mostly in the core, except for
stuff brought up by tectonic activity. Asteroid sized bodies may be
rock, metal, or a mixture. And they'll be easily available.

But the only difference the *size* of the star makes is how close in
you have to deal with extensive ice layers. 

The age makes a difference in the extent to which the planetismals have
conglomerated, and the extent to which bodies have differentiated. 

Now if you get into the matter of stellar *generations*, then there are
big differences in what *kind* of metals are avialable, as well as the
quantity. But here we are talking about tens of billions of years.

Stars like Sol are third generation. That's mostly what you are going
to find in the spiral arms. They are about 5 billion years old.

Second generation stars are about 10 billion years old, and are much
poorer in the heavier elements. 

First generation stars are more than 15 billion years old and
essentially date from the formation of the galaxy. The have only
hydrogen and helium. They are pretty much restricted to the galactic
core, and to globular clusters.

You aren't going to find any first generation stars anywhere the
players are going to get to. Second generation stars are possible, but
they'll be *really* rare, as they won't be native to this part of the
galaxy. They'll tend to be passing thru at high relative velocities. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #80
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Saturday, January 31 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 081



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Heretics and Heathens
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: Initial colonization considerations
Re: Cyberware - shaper and mechs
Re: Brocolli - was +D-D Discussion (renamed)
SysGen -- system generation software
Re: Heretics and heathens
Re: Heretics and heathens
Re: Brocolli - was +D-D Discussion (renamed)
Re: +D-D discussion (aka Time of Death for Spacing)
How does a Pelican *get* Rusty?
Re: science ships?
Re: How does a Pelican *get* Rusty?
Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation
Re: +D-D discussion (aka Time of Death for Spacing)
AUCTION: TRAVELLER CT\MT\TNE\T4 materials update #5
With Marc's permission ...
Re: Decompression
Re: Thoughts on jump drive

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 20:41:50 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Heretics and Heathens

In mail you write:

> I believe it. For years, my father-in-law (himself tolerant of other
> religions - he let me, a foreign heretic, marry his daughter) would
> occasionally test people's views on this matter by saying: "I think they
> should kill all barbers and Jews."
>
> He reports that the most common answer he got was "Why barbers?"
>
> Scary, isn't it?

Not really. Heck, *I* would tend to ask that. Not because I agree, but
because while I'm familiar with most of the reasons folks dislike jews,
I'd be wondering what he had against barbers. *After* he answers, then
I'll likely know if there's any point in arguing with him.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 21:00:21 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

Leonard Erickson wrote:

>> You know, when this thread was introduced, I remember thinking that by the
>> time they got there there would already be a fully developed colony, well
>> into the mature level.
>
>That theme has been used in a *lot* of SF over the years. Here's a filk
>song on the subject.
[snip]
>And of the ten men in our crew, but two of us remain,
>For trapped here in the future, we all have gone insane.
>We knew when we set out that we'd be gone a thousand years,
>But we never thought we'd end up as unwanted pensioneers.
>
>And soon we two will follow where the other eight have gone,
>And then our long sad journey will finally be done.
>In the next room waiting is my time-lost lonely wife,
>And I'll see her one last time as we take each other's life.

In the continuing effort to present a balanced menu of socio-political
options to the TML, may I point out for additional consideration another
pair of temporal transplants, from the Strugatsky brothers' early stories?
Sergei Kondratev and Evegeny Slavin were the only survivors of the first
~jump drive experiment, who suddenly reappeared a century or so after their
disappearance and found themselves in a massively more technologically and
socially advanced humanity.  Slavin adapts fairly quickly, gets a
girlfriend, and becomes a journalist.  Kondratev mopes a lot more,
exploring the traditional anomie and feeling useless &c., until Gorbovsky
drops by and sets him up as a submarine fish-herder in the Kuriles, and he
lives happily ever after.

Obviously, their superior adaptation to the situation was made possible by
their "home" and "target" societies having transcended the capitalist stage
of society.

ObTrav:  Speaking of Gorbovsky, anyone else ever use Leonid Andreevich as
an NPC or patron in a Traveller game?  And what _are_ the sofas of the
Third Imperium like?

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 98 04:32 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Initial colonization considerations

Moin Legate,

> Actually the largest size colony discussed was 1,000,000 people but that is
> neither here nor there.

	imho 1 million people are a good number :

	- its large enough to sustain TL:6 by its own production, and
	  a much higher TL, if aided by trade.
	- a atmos 6 or 8 world can be classified "Rich" to encurage trade
	  and to help the new colony to sustain a higher techlevel.

	Hell why colonisation, if not for adding an other productive system ?

> This is a point in your favor, but what about involentary colonization with
> that form of colonization.  I.e. we find a great colony world & about half
> the people train to live there & the other half are from the prisions?

	Well why not recolonisation of a system with a popcode of 6 with
	about 30.000 people some TL's higher than the natives. This would
	also add for production.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 98 04:16 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Cyberware - shaper and mechs

Moin Stevie D,

> I guess the ultimate cyberware is a completely artificial body with only a brain.
> Then we're getting close to immorality, maybe?  Assuming proper maintenance and a
> cure for Alzheimers.

	thats a mech - a way perhaps some TNE culture may follow. An other
	interesting theme also covered in FFS/cap12 leads towards the shaper,
	a geneered organic being able to sustain vacum and to use anagathics
	without side effects.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 23:59:19 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Brocolli - was +D-D Discussion (renamed)

There are actually two sides to this question. In the one case, since the
creatures in question are not human then it would not be concidered
cannibalism. But in the greater scheme fo the universe, since we are all
brothers in sapience... oh, the heck with it! They ain't human so it don't
count!

I know a good band of smugglers that might, for a price, be able to arrange
a small buffet style dinner for a few selected "clients"

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: Richard A. Flores <cybernot@gte.net>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Friday, January 30, 1998 11:41 PM
Subject: Re: Brocolli - was +D-D Discussion (renamed)


>OBTW, someone lurking over my shoulder has asked, "Wouldn't that be
>cannibalism?"
>
>I tried to explain why it wouldn't be, but I need someone else to validate
>what I said, and I have been told that I can't say what I said because then
>you would just say yes to get me out of trouble.
>
>Would someone on the list explain why it wouldn't be.
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 98 05:34 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: SysGen -- system generation software

Moin Christopher E. Webb,

> DJGPP, the software is 32 bit protected mode -- I don't know if other
                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

	And wont allowed to run on any decent OS, as any sane programmer
	of an DosEMU would block ring 0 access !

> 640x480, using 16 bit color.  I will include support for 256 color mode,

	This would disable most other dos emulators.

	While not writing a portable program that produces GIFs at 640x480
	from comand line interface. This can be embedded in a web page, or
	called from a menu system and viewed. All other things should be
	stdin/stdout/stderr operating on ANSI.SYS vt100. If its written
	clean and portable e.g. in C, it can be for wider audience than
	a program designed 15 years to late !

	Heck you are designing a TL:6 program (DOS is a CP/M emulator),
	while state of the art is TL:8 (SMP/MMP/Clustering) - if you take
	a clue from an old guru - allways design program for SOTA - the
	time the program is finished (2 years later) old SOTA is at
	comsumer price.

By Michael
- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 21:34:36 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Heretics and heathens

Eris wrote:

>That doesn't sound like any Priest I've ever talked to.  Not even any of
>the fundamentalist-fundamentalist preachers around here!  No religious
>sects I'm aware of preach that Jews "worship the devil & like to kill
>babies."  I wonder what fringe sect you were dealing with there?

FWIW, I've run across openly anti-Semitic clergy and layfolk of various
denominations, or had them run across me.  Some are quite outgoing.  I
still  get hate mail every so often from one Aryan Nations church over in
Idaho; they picked my name out of the phone book because it's _obviously_
Jewish as well as foreign-looking -- foreign besides Jewish-foreign, that
is -- and I was rash enough to taunt them.  And mocking the sheep is the
same as mocking the shepherd, isn't it?  <G>  In any case, yes, I'm told by
these folks -- and one other Catholic parish priest out in Michigan I met
up with -- that we Jews _routinely_ pray to Satan and hate wee Christian
babies with a ferocious passion.

Just recently the holy people over the mountains were so powerfully
RIGHT!!!! with the LORD!!! that they sent a FINAL!!!! death threat to me,
presumably in reaction to that infamously Jewish holiday, Martin Luther
King Day.

(Exclamation marks as per original.)

For you fringe-watchers out there, this is the same clique as whose
spokesmodel, a few years back during that Weaver business up in those
parts, was interviewed outside their compound by a swarm of network
reporters, denounced Z.O.G. and proclaimed that "Randy Weaver is the ONLY
MAN in Montana who has any honor!  Yes, HONOR!  Let me SPELL that for you
people.  That's _honor_, H-O-N-E-R!"

ObTrav: c.f. Library Data on the Phoenix Project.

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:37:46 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Heretics and heathens

> From: Suz Dollar <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
> > OTOH, you *were* in a place called the "Rusty Pelican."  That *sounds*
like
> > an establishment that dispenses alcoholic beverages, yes?  And were
talking
> > to a Mother that brought her little girl into that environment. Says
> > something about what you were dealing with, perhaps.
> The Rusty Pelican is supposed to be one of the nicer fish/seafood 
> restaurants in Phoenix. Its been a *long* time since I've eaten 
> there. I'm certain it has a bar, but then so do most restaurants. 
> Dive bars in Phoenix aren't found on the waterfront... ;>

Well, all it is is a jumped up version of a Red Lobster in many ways, but
as I had a business meeting we ate here instead of Red Lobster.  I does
have a very good bar & wine cellar better than most bars that is.  As for
it being on the water front.  No it isn't its near the Arizona Mills Mall,
& as Arizona is a desert, I have not been able to find the a waterfront
dive, yet.  ;<)

But, hey if this person thinks that we have beachfront land, we can make a
fortune. ;<)

> Suz 

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:39:48 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Brocolli - was +D-D Discussion (renamed)

> From: Richard A. Flores <cybernot@gte.net>
> >If you are going to do something that "socially unacceptable", you
> >might as well get a few sides of K'kree.
> I have considered that myself.  I still wanna know do they taste like
> chicken or beef?

No man, they taste like lamb. ;<)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 23:22:56 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: +D-D discussion (aka Time of Death for Spacing)

 
> > Instead, there should be straightforward arguments that it doesn't work,
> > supported by logic.
> 
> Umm... Sorry, but I still haven't understood how adding it would improve
> the game, regardless of the detailed mechanics. Sure it gives a wider range
> of damage results, but it does complicate the damage roll, even if only a
> little. The group I play with, like myself, want this part of the game to
> be fast and furious - so maybe this is a style-of-play issue.

I was wondering even about the "wider range of damage results" part.

2d6 is a range of 2-12, or 11 values.

2d6 +1d6 -1d6 = 3d6 -1d6 = -3 to 17, or 21 results, 3 of which are
meaningless (4 if you count the 0 which is dealt with by missing the
to-hit roll), so it is 18 (or 17). 

A straight 3d6 roll has 16 values.

It seems like a lot of trouble for gaining 2 (or just 1) useful outcomes
- --and what do you do if hit by a bullet for -3, heal? :-)

I think a better way to get at what is wanted is to ask "what do we
want here?" If the answer is "Damage values that go from 1 to some
number for a hit" then either use different dice, or do something
like 1d6, 2d6-1, 3d6-2, 4d6-3, and so on. This does make a lot of
sense because you can get the same grazing would from a pistol shot
that you might from a rifle even though the maximum damage of the
rifle might be higher.

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 98 00:14:21 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: How does a Pelican *get* Rusty?

On 01/30/98 at 10:37 PM,  "Legate" <legate@futureone.com> said:

>>OTOH, you *were* in a place called the "Rusty Pelican."  That *sounds*
>>like an establishment that dispenses alcoholic beverages, yes?  And
>>were talking to a Mother that brought her little girl into that
>>environment.  Says something about what you were dealing with,
>>perhaps.

>> The Rusty Pelican is supposed to be one of the nicer fish/seafood 
>> restaurants in Phoenix. 

Ah, but you must admit it's name *sounds* rather like an establishment that
routinely serves drinks? ;->

>> I'm certain it has a bar

Ah, ha! I was right! ;->

>>..but then so do most restaurants. 

Pish tosh! Doesn't change the facts.

>> Dive bars in Phoenix aren't found on the waterfront... ;>

Now, did *I* bring up a waterfront, Suz?  ;-> There are dives far from the
water. My question is what is a Pelican doing in the middle of the Arizona
desert?  Oh that's right, it's rusty! 

>But, hey if this person thinks that we have beachfront land, we can make a
>fortune. ;<)

Hee!  Hee!  I'll swap you some of my waterfront property for your
beachfront land...wait...OH NO!  My broker just called and I've been wiped
out!  It seems my shares of IG took a plunge when rumors that the new +D-D
product line would be using 1d3's.  Seems I won't be able to close that
transaction with you after all. ;->


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 21:00:30 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: science ships?

In mail you write:

>     Is there any need for a pure Science ship in Traveller?  Are there the
> "stellar anamolies" so popular in Star Trek?

Probably. Though there aren't a *lot* of unusual stars in the measley
couple of hundred parsecs than constitute "known space". 

> What about nebulas?  Are there any in Traveller?  Any rules for em, i mean...

Contary to what they show in Star Drek, nebulae are *light years*
across. Anything from a few hexes to multiple sectors. And they are
still a pretty damn good vacuum. The glow is from *very* energetic
stars inside.

The "dark" nebulas are only noticeable as absorbing light over light
years of distance. If you were inside one, you'd notice some sensor
degradation but only at extreme ranges. Except from your astronomy
folks, who'd notice they couldn't see the stars. :-)

The only nebula I can recall in known space is in Dark Nebula sector.
But I can't find any details.

> I see from Survival Margin that Antares (the star) is being studied
> because its getting ready to nova or something like that,

Antares is the only red giant nearby. And it's thought that it may go
supernova sometime in the next thousand years. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 23:56:21 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: How does a Pelican *get* Rusty?

> From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pen.net>
> >>OTOH, you *were* in a place called the "Rusty Pelican."  That *sounds*
> >>like an establishment that dispenses alcoholic beverages, yes?  And
> >>were talking to a Mother that brought her little girl into that
> >>environment.  Says something about what you were dealing with,
> >>perhaps.
> >> The Rusty Pelican is supposed to be one of the nicer fish/seafood 
> >> restaurants in Phoenix. 
> Ah, but you must admit it's name *sounds* rather like an establishment
that
> routinely serves drinks? ;->

Well, do you judge books by their covers? ;<)

> >> I'm certain it has a bar
> Ah, ha! I was right! ;->

Yes, you were. ;<)
 
> >>..but then so do most restaurants. 
> Pish tosh! Doesn't change the facts.

No it does not.  I has a rather good bar that stocks some drinks from
Core/Core

> >> Dive bars in Phoenix aren't found on the waterfront... ;>
> Now, did *I* bring up a waterfront, Suz?  ;-> There are dives far from
the
> water. My question is what is a Pelican doing in the middle of the
Arizona
> desert?  Oh that's right, it's rusty! 

Well, it got lost & well... ;<)

> >But, hey if this person thinks that we have beachfront land, we can make
a
> >fortune. ;<)
> Hee!  Hee!  I'll swap you some of my waterfront property for your
> beachfront land...wait...OH NO!  My broker just called and I've been
wiped
> out!  It seems my shares of IG took a plunge when rumors that the new
+D-D
> product line would be using 1d3's.  Seems I won't be able to close that
> transaction with you after all. ;->

To bad, we could have made a mint. 

> Eris

Legate
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"It also left man's decapitated body lying on the floor next to his own
severed head.  A head which at this time has no name."

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 98 00:57:05 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation

I've been thinking about a couple of astronomical questions that relate to
astrogation.  

Star systems have differences in vector that a jumping ship would have to
take into account.  What is the range of differences that could be normall
expected?  Is it closer to 10, 30 or 100 km/s?  And would these differences
be better modeled by a normal or uniform distribution?

How easy would it be to determine vector differences between systems within
a 6 parsec radius?  If it would be a routine task then ships would make
these calculations on the fly, but if the task was difficult or took an
extended period of time some sort of table of vectors would make more
sense.  If such a "book" of vectors was appropriate, how often would it
need updating?  Would it still be good after a thousand years? Five
thousand?

Within a system ships would have to match orbital velocites when moving
from jump point (or planet) to planet.  _Scouts_ had a lot of information,
but it didn't include formulas for calculating orbital velocities, and, it
seems to me, that would be rather important.  Are planetary orbital
velocities based solely on distance from the primary? Are factors such as
planetary density and stellar type important enough to be taken into
account?

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 98 01:08:48 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: +D-D discussion (aka Time of Death for Spacing)

On 01/30/98 at 11:22 PM,  Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com> said:

>I think a better way to get at what is wanted is to ask "what do we want
>here?" If the answer is "Damage values that go from 1 to some number for a
>hit" then either use different dice, or do something like 1d6, 2d6-1,
>3d6-2, 4d6-3, and so on. This does make a lot of sense because you can get
>the same grazing would from a pistol shot that you might from a rifle even
>though the maximum damage of the rifle might be higher.

Merrick, I think your idea has a great deal of merit.  I'd agree that most
personal weapons have the potential of doing some sort of minimal damage (1
point).  Some weapons' minimum damage, OTOH, might be 2, 3, or more points. 
CT rated weapons rather like this, didn't it?

However, I still wonder just how any of these techniques are going to work. 
Unless, we're talking about moving to a Hit Point system and away from
individual dice reducing individual Characteristics.  I think arguments can
be made for both methods of applying damage, and that's why I proposed
using both.  ;-)

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 02:14:19 -0500
From: Peter Miller <pmiller@linkeasy.net>
Subject: AUCTION: TRAVELLER CT\MT\TNE\T4 materials update #5

Hi,

*** ONLY NINE DAYS REMAINING ***

I have received one complaint from a person on the TML who does not
wish this to be posted there.  I have respected this, but believe that
it is acceptable to post it infrequently as I will do from now into the
future.  Please forward any comments regarding this to
pmiller@linkeasy.net

I've deciced to auction off my Traveller collection of materials ranging
from Classic to 4th Edition.  Some of the items below are in good shape,
and are good finds.

First, the rules:
1)  Please bid only with the intention of buying
2)  All bids in United States currency (even though I'm in Canada!)
3)  Buyer pays shipping from oakville, Ontario, Canada
4)  I reserve the right to remove items or reject bids without reason
5)  Only bids received at pmiller@linkeasy.net or ICQ#5294589 witll be
    processed and accepted.
6)  The auction begins January 26th 1998, 1am, and ends 2/9/98 midnight
7)  I reserve the right to increase or decrease the auction length
8)  All bidders are automatically placd on the mailing list.  E-mail me
    to be removed.

Second, the conditions guide (from Titan Games)
M=Mint       - We took it out of the shrinkwrap (for some reason)
and                  put it up for sale; looks like it's right from the
               printer's
NM=Near Mint - Corners or Binding have minimal or no wear
VF=Very Fine - Corners, Binding have small wear, 
               Cover may be slightly scuffed
F=Fine       - Corners, Binding, or Cover have wear or small creases
G=Good       - Corners, Binding, or Cover more wear, large creases or 
               scuffing
Fa=Fair      - Corners, Binding, or Cover very worn, many creases and
               much scuffing
P=Poor       - Corners, Binding, or Cover excessively worn, possible 
               tears in cover

Third, the items:  (latest bidder's alias and bid underneath) - MIN BID

MegaTraveller Boxed Set (Imperial Encyclopedia, Referee's Manual,
Player's Manual, Spinward Marches poster map) MT
        - BOX is FAIR, CONTENTS are VERY FINE - wlewis $20

Traveller Boxed Set, digest sized (Books 1-3) CT
        - BOX is GOOD, CONTENTS are VERY FINE - rstanek $50

Book 0: An Introduction to Traveller (CT)
        - VERY FINE - J-man $3

Book 4: Mercenary (CT)
        - FINE - Beast $3

Supplement 3: The Spinward Marches (CT)
        - FAIR - SpiralBound $7

Adventure 9:  Nomad's of the World-Ocean (CT) 
        - VERY FINE - gsvenson  $5

Double Adventuee 3: Death Station\Argon Gambit (CT) 
        - VERY FINE - mkent $10

Double Adventure (FASA): The Stazhlekh Report\The Harrensa Project (CT)
        - FINE - Timothy.Collinson $17

Marc Miller's Traveller Rulebook (T4)
        - GOOD - Magnus $10

Pocket Empires (T4)
        - FINE\VERY FINE - j-man $13

Emperor's Arsenal (T4)
        - MINT - j-man $10

Challenge Isuses #57
        - FINE - subbob $4

Challenge Issue #63
	- FINE - subbob $4

Challenge Issue #70 
        - FAIR - subbob $4

Megatrveller 101 Vehicles (MT)
        - FINE - igor $10

Megatraveller's Referee's Gaming Kit (MT) 
        - VERY FINE - j-man $16

Traveler: The New Era  Rulebook (TNE) - December 1993
        - MINT - travelrTNE $11

If you wish to put in a bid below the minimum bids I MAY be willing to
accept it.  E-mail it to pmiller@linkeasy.net

All bids to pmiller@linkeasy.net
- -- 
_________________________________Peter J. Miller
pmiller@linkeasy.net                ICQ #5294589
  ----> http://www.dragonfire.net/~pm/ <-----       
"When the first link in the chain is forged; the
first speech censored, the first thought 
forbidden, the first freedom denied; it chains
us all irrevocably." - Jeri Taylor

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 02:46:01 -0600
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: With Marc's permission ...

Would it be possible for someone to list the names and classes of ships in
the CT supplement "Fighting Ships" here on the TML. I do not own that book
(alas), but I do own "Fighting Ships of the Shattered Imperium," and I would
like to put a name to some of those puppies. I've gotten some names from
"Battle Rider" (I'm pretty sure the ED-15 Escort Destroyer is a Rapier
class, and the Bl-15 Dreadnought looks an awful lot like a Sylea class), but
I want more.

You see, I have this terrible handicap called lack of creativity, and I
cannot make up the names on my own.

Joseph Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 04:26:35 -0500 (EST)
From: neo@total.net (Glenn Grant)
Subject: Re: Decompression

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK sez,

><<Glenn Grant wrote:
>The fun thing with retractable claws, of course, is when you roll a
>Spectacular Failure and they get stuck, extended.
>
>Eeeeyew. What if you're inside a vac suit when you do this?

If you use your claws while inside a vac suit, you are instantly nominated
for a Darwin Award. :)

 + GMG +

    -----------------------Glenn Grant-----------------------  
                         <neo@total.net>
    Web: <http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/ggrant.html>
        "...a starship, a robot, two sex toys, and a gun:
      the raw, heady essence of interstellar civilization."
                        --Kenji Schwarz

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 01:29:30 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on jump drive

Fri, 30 Jan 1998 21:41:51 -0600, "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
\>>Well, this is the sort of thing I don't like.  To fit the jump
>>bubble theory to a situation that was designed around another
>>theory, you start having to explain things away (like why it's
>>called fuel when it isn't fuel).  Sure this can be done, but
>>it leaves things that much harder to accept.  That is why I
>>prefer to stick with things closer to the original.  It is
>>always a better idea to limit decisions on things fundamentally
>>work to the beginning of the design of the background as
>>much as possbile, at least in my mind.

>Here's a thought, why are words called fuel?  Oh, yes they are.  As in the
>expression "fuel for thought" or "fuel for the debate (or argument)".  Are
>words fuel?  No, but they act like fuel, they start or keep something going.
>What is LHyd?  It's a fuel, it's a coolant, if it's cold enough and under
>sufficient compression, it's even a metal.  My point is, when you think of
>LHyd, what do you think of?  Probably fuel.  LHyd is required to start a
>jump drive.  So, naturally you would call it fuel.

You have missed my point.  Sure you can come up with a reason why
"fuel" might not mean fuel, just as you can come up with fiddles
to make the jump bubble theory fit all the other aspects that
were made up for the original approach.  But then you are left
with all these odd little things for no apparent reason, and
it gets a bit more hokey.

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #81
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Saturday, January 31 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 082



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: +D-D discussion (aka Time of Death for Spacing)
Re: Posting WD articles
Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation
Table 185
Re: SysGen -- system generation software
Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation
Re: Hit location / Instant Kill Rules / luck
Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator
Re: Table 185
Re: Heretics and heathens
Re: Thoughts on jump drive
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: D+D (was: Time of Death for Spacing)
Re: Wounds and Healing
Re: Initial colonization considerations
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: SysGen -- system generation software
Re: sin in traveller?
Re: Canon Thoughts
MegaTraveller Book Order

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 05:22:36 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: +D-D discussion (aka Time of Death for Spacing)

Merrick Burkhardt wrote:

[snip]

> It seems like a lot of trouble for gaining 2 (or just 1) useful outcomes
> --and what do you do if hit by a bullet for -3, heal? :-)
>
> I think a better way to get at what is wanted is to ask "what do we
> want here?" If the answer is "Damage values that go from 1 to some
> number for a hit" then either use different dice, or do something
> like 1d6, 2d6-1, 3d6-2, 4d6-3, and so on. This does make a lot of
> sense because you can get the same grazing would from a pistol shot
> that you might from a rifle even though the maximum damage of the
> rifle might be higher.

Marc.   We love your work.  We really do.  Or at least I do.  But Merrick's
argument has a great deal of merit.  I hope you can consider them objectively.
I've lurked without comment for much of this D+D- discussion.  But the time has
come to say that it is going to be a hard sell, especially to experienced
RPGers.  You defended a lot of critiques previously by saying that proposed
alternatives.  But that argument proves too much against the whole idea of D+D-.

I'll not comment further, but I thought you'd appreciate another sincere comment
from one who greatly appreciates your works.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 05:27:57 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Posting WD articles

Richard A. Flores wrote:

> Bolie IV wrote:
>
> >> Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK wrote:
> >>
> >> Leonard, Bloo, guys -
> >>
> >> Thanks for the advice, but when I submitted the articles to WD I
> >> effectively cut a deal on copyright with GW, and I'll stick by it. Looks
> >> like I can post the stuff if I want to, so long as I make it clear it's
> >> theirs. That's good enough.
> >>
> >> Thanks again :)
> >> Andy
> >
> >If you gave them the rights in exchange for pay and they don't pay
> >you, then they're in breach of contract and the contract is null and
> >void and the rights are yours.  You can't have a contract unless
> >there is an exchange of goods or services.
>
> Unfortunately, you will have to sue to get the rights back.  Until you have
> a piece of paper with a judge's name on it, those rights still belong to
> WD/GW.  This sucks IMNSHO, but, that's life.  :-(

  Not entirely true.  If you use the literary work, they will have to sue you.
An expense for them, to be sure.  If they do, the doctrine of "fair use" will
protect you somewhat, if you didn' create the work.  If you were the author,
and agreed to transfer the rights, but they didn't follow through on their part
of the deal, your rights are still your rights.  You wrote it, you use it.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 05:39:35 -0500 (EST)
From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
Subject: Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation

Hello Eris,
  To answer your question regarding the "physics" involved (I am not an
expert, but have been digging into astrophysics for answers to the very
question you ask), here are a few "thoughts"...

1) the gravitational pull (attraction) between two objects is based upon
not only the distance, but the mass of the two objects.  The attaction
varies inversely with the distance.  When dealing with a mass 10 object,
and a mass 20 object next to a mass 2.3 e 10 mass object, the mass 20
object actually falls in towards the center of the mass 2.3 e 10 object
faster than does the mass 10 object.  However, the difference is so
slight, that for all intents and purposes, they accellerate at the same
rate.  The way this affects planetary orbits?  The force of attraction
between the planets mass must be equalled by the centripetal force of the
planet's speed.  The idea of a string attached to the ball and you
swinging the ball applies here.  The string represents the gravitational
attraction between the ball (planet) and your hand (sun).  The faster you
swing the ball, the stronger that force has to be.  If you rotate that
ball so fast that it breaks the string, it then escapes from you.


2) stars (according to the one accretion theory I read, have a center of
density that is higher towards the center than it is towards the outer
orbits of the star system.  I don't know if this "aspect" is true or not,
just that it was a given in the accretion theory.

3) stars contain better than 90% (I am inclined to say 99% but I am not
sure if this is correct, so I hedge with 90%) of the mass, while the
planets contain a similar ratio of rotational momentum (hope I am saying
that correctly).  In essence, the star has the most mass, but the least
rotational energy, while the planets have the most rotational energy, but
least mass.

  An object in motion tends to stay in motion unless an outside force is
actin upon it.  Thus, stars moving at a specified velocity will tend to
maintain that velocity until something else massive enough can affect it
(such as a gravitational mass - stars, dead stars, etc).  Theoretically
speaking, the stars will continue in the direction they are going in
unchanged.

  Ok, having said that mouthful above, every stat I have seen on star's
velocity is based upon "relative" to earth/sol.  Stars that I have come
across the stats for speak in terms of "teens" speed.  I have never seen
speeds in hundreeds of kilometers per second (doesn't mean there aren't
any, just that I haven't seen any <grin>).

  If I might suggest, there is an EXCELLENT program that I purchased for
my amiga many years back, and is currently available for the IBM.  It is
called DISTANT SUNS, which you can still find available if you do a web
search on that title.  It's put out by Adromeda software I believe.  In
any case, it shows not only the name of any sun you click on within the
screen, it will also show you the star's type, as well as it's velocity...  

  One final thing to note:  Scientists can tell what temperature a sun
burns at by using spectral analysis of the star's light.  Each "element"
burns at a specific temperature (yadda yadda yadda - explanation not even
attempted because of lack of full understanding) which produces a
signature.  Scientists can also measure the doppler shift of the star
involved, and get an idea of it's velocity based on the dopler shift.
Over a period of time, both the dopler shift, plus the shift of the
observed star in the skies by use of mathematics, we can get the apparent
direction of speed plus the speed of stars.

  Hope this answers your questions regarding the astrophysics involved

PS - if anyone can correct my presentation of facts *PLEASE* do, since
this is mostly self taught, and may be fraught with errors depite my best
attempts to have reasoned this correctly.

    Hal

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 06:42:21 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Table 185

Help, help, I can't find table 185 in FF&S2.  :-(

I'm going to be really mad if I can't submit the IT&T Explorer in THUDDD9
just because I can't find a stinking table.

If you can direct me to Table 185 in cyberspace or send me a copy by email,
I would be so much happier.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 08:23:35 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: SysGen -- system generation software

In a message dated 98-01-30 19:32:50 EST, you write:

<< * DOS-based -- I am using the DJGPP C++ compiler.  The software will be
 DOS native.  The software is Win95 compatible - >>

Regardless of individual preferences, it should be Win95, not Win95
compatible. It would be great experience for you programming.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 08:23:28 -0500 (EST)
From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
Subject: Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation

Hello Folks,

> 3) stars contain better than 90% (I am inclined to say 99% but I am not
> sure if this is correct, so I hedge with 90%) of the mass, while the
> planets contain a similar ratio of rotational momentum (hope I am saying
> that correctly).  In essence, the star has the most mass, but the least
> rotational energy, while the planets have the most rotational energy, but
> least mass.

The phrase I was looking for above was angular momentum <sigh>...

Also, the formula that I spoke of before regarding gravitational
attraction is:

G(MaMb/r^2)

 where G is a constant Ma is the first mass and Mb is the second mass and
r is the distance.

G is listed as 6.67 e -11  N*m^2/kg^2

  Sorry I messed up, but fortunately, I had my old physics Handbook in my
car tonight <don't ask!>...

       Hal

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 12:02:24 +0000
From: Dominic Reynolds <nz19@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Re: Hit location / Instant Kill Rules / luck

> 
>--- twas writ:
>We agreed that combat wasn't fast-paced in RPGs, and he
>showed me an AWESOME solution.  It's published by some 

>Anyone else see this system before?
>--- end of quote ---

Hit Location

Milleniums End is the game that person has been talking 
about.

IMO the game is not so swift as could be, there are charts
for various guns quoting the MV of them with and without
silencers and the MV and wound effects of the projectile 
type being used at various ranges. There was a comprehensive 
range of body armour to be taken into the calculations, along
with a very realistic seeming method of death by trauma etc.
I have played one game of this and the emphasis was a 
military style one.  The characters got killed fairly 
easily, even when wearing fairly good body armour.


I can say it may be a little faster to play combat in this
system than say Aftermath by FGU which uses up to 20 phases
in each of which a person may speak one syllable.

Instant Kills

I do not like the instant kill rules of any game system.  When
someone has spent a number of hours developing a character, only
to have a minor combat and end un unlucky and have the character
die.
Even if they may be of a militaristic bent then I do not feel
that when they are used in the manner for which they were 
created there should be such a level of realism.  There is
the Reallife (tm) for being realistic in, whereas in a RPG
I feel that I want to have fun and play some kinda comic book
hero - who can battle amazing odds and somehow with some 
cunning scrape by and survive.


Luck

I do not know about other peoples instances but sometimes
you know you are going to roll a certain number.

DM - A enemy is pointing a laser rifle at your character, if 
you roll two dice and don't get a 2 then he will not shoot 
at your characters vacc suit face plate.

ME Rolled a 2

Another instance - new ship darn good crew - fully annual maintenanced
they misjump first two jumps.

Another instance - Pilot rolls a 2 - failure rolls a 12 - Crash lands 
	Next trip Same Pilot rolls a 2 - failure rolls a 12 - Crash lands again

Another instance - Grav Bike - rolls a 2 - failure rolls a 7 - falls off
        Gets straight back on rolls a 2 - failure rolls a 7 - falls off

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 00:08:09 +0800
From: "Benjamin Barton" <aramis3d@iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator

How about Rhapsody as will work on Mac and a PC with no porting, or at least
so i am told

> DOS compatible and Win95 compatible are not the same thing. Making it DOS
> compatible just cripples it. Make it Win95 compatible.,

>Making it Win 95 "compatible" means that it is *incompatible* with
>anything else. I can't run Win 95 on my current equipment. And I see
>*lots* of folks who have their system crashing on a regular basis when
>using Win 95.
My mate have both MAC and Win95 and was top MAC expert in Perth, he said the
Mac crashes just as much as win95.

>DOS is still the "lowest common denominator".
Can't do copy and paste, can't do screen print and can't do great maps with
8 colours. and its a dog to use...

>Let's not repeat the mistake from back when you had to have an Apple II
>to run Traveller software.
Has anyone got this software as i can emulat an Apple 2 on win95.

- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 07:32:55 -0700
From: "Suz Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Table 185

> If you can direct me to Table 185 in cyberspace or send me a copy by email,
> I would be so much happier.

http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/traveller/

The above is the URL for Joe Heck's Traveller site. There is a link 
there to take you to an errata page listed by book.

Suz

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 08:23:16 -0700
From: Sanders <timmon@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Heretics and heathens

At 07:33 PM 1/30/98 PST, you wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>> Give us all a break and take the Christian bashing elsewhere.
>
>Paul, it's *not* Christian bashing. It is, alas the truth. There *are*
>people like that. Even priests/ministers. *I* don't consider such
>people to *be* Christians, regardless of what they call themselves.

I could care less what anyone's opinion is on this subject - this is neither 
the place nor forum for such a topic.

>-- 
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 15:26:10 GMT
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on jump drive

In article <34D24E72.21EE@alum.mit.edu>, David P. Summers wrote:
> > 1) ALL jump fuel was used BEFORE the ship entered jump space
> >  (Evidence: Drop tanks).
>  
> Which actualy argues that you can't be using it to created a
> jump bubble....
>

It all depends on your handwaving.

Jump sequence
: Field strength increased at primary node (jump "exhaust" port)
: small "hole" opens into j-space
: rapid discharge of hydrogen into j-space to form bubble
: field str increase to cover whole ship
: ship translates into j-space - inside the bubble
: field modulated to keep bubble from expanding too much

This allows you to re-introduce drop tanks (if you want them in your universe) without needing the huge j-capacitors or "old" canon.

The need to translate into j-space before the hydrogen bubble can dissipate adds that time critical element - "bring the field up to level three now!  Use the fuel reserve to supplement the bubble, but get me that power now!"


Simon

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 10:25:00 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

This is an extract from the charts for Jump in T4.1

Marc Miller


Jump
	In the best of circumstances, a ship leaves a world and accelerates directly
toward the safe jump point 100 planetary diameters out. When it arrives there
it jumps (spending a week in jumpspace) and breaks out about 168 hours later.
Upon arrival, it retains its speed and direction (which happens to point
directly at the intended destination. The ship then decelerates to the
destination, and lands to complete its journey.
	Complication 1: DestinationWorld is smaller. If the DestinationWorld is
smaller than the OriginWorld, the ship will leave jumpspace closer to the
world. The ship will be unable to decelerate enough to stop at the
DestinationWorld and it will have to spend extra time maneuvering.
	Complication2: DestinationWorld is larger. If the DestinationWorld is larger
than the OriginWorld, the ship will leave jump space farther out. The ship
will have to travel farther to reach the DestinationWorld.
	Complication3: DestinationWorld is not in the direction the ship is going
(that is, when it entered jump, its vectors of speed and direction was
retained; when it leaves jump, that vector is not pointed at the
DestinationWorld). If the DestinationWorld is not in the exact direction the
ship is travelling, the ship will have to maneuver to reach its destination.
This may require a course change of up to 180 degrees.
	Complication4: DestinationWorld is occluded by another world or star. If
another world or star in located on a straight line between the OriginWorld
and the DestinationWorld, the ship will leave jumpspace when it first crosses
a sphere 100 diameters out from the intervening body. This may cause the ship
to leave jumpspace elsewhere in the intended system, or even in another
system.
	Complication5: DestinationWorld is within 100 diameters of the system star.
If the DestinationWorld is within 100 diameters of the system star, the ship
will leave jump space farther out from the world than desired. The ship will
have undertake additional maneuver to reach the destination.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 10:22:02 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: D+D (was: Time of Death for Spacing)

CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com> writes:
>
>Either it works or it doesn't. Either it fits or it doesn't. Saying keep
>it as
>
>an option is looking for excuses to not use it.
>
>
>
>Instead, there should be straightforward arguments that it doesn't work,
>
>supported by logic.

I have to disagree here.  I'll use my own (unofficial) rules as an example
to explain why I support optional rules.

I've created a set of detailed trade rules intended for small
owner-operated merchant starships(1).  Although my group liked them (the
rules), we only used them when the thrust of the adventure was trading. 
In adventures where the more interesting stuff was, say, an espionage
mission, we used the standard Merchant Prince-style trade rules(2).

Why?  Because although my rules are fairly simple, they do add some
complexity to the game, in the sense that there is more for the players to
keep track of.  Eg. instead of carrying 20t of TL5/A goods they are
carrying 10t of grapple grommets, 5t of refined aluminium, and 5t of
petrolium byproducts.  More interesting (for a merchant), but more
complicated too.

Although I (naturally) think that my merchant rules are pretty good, I
wouldn't advocate making them the standard merchant rules because they do
take longer than many groups will want to spend on economic matters.  I
also took care to make the general results similar to those obtainable
using the standard rules, so that there is no gaming advantage to using my
rules - just increased enjoyment for those that like trading.


To summarize: I believe that optional rules have their place, because they
allow individual gaming groups to select the balance between simplicity
and realism that's right for them.  These optional rules should produce
the same general results as the regular rules, with an increased level of
detail.


Notes:

(1) Found at www.interlog.com/~dmci104/GamingClub/Traveller/trade.html

(2) Currently the standard MT, TNE, and T4 rules.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 09:19:57 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@m9.sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Wounds and Healing

They have a very similar system... but for body parts (and they 
inlcude a -DM that goes up with the more boxes marked off)

Same with me on corps.. I thought that the combat system was great, 
and then promply shelved it.. Right now I am working on Rolemaster 
v2 for traveller..It is very quick if you know the system..

Cya

> > I like it.. Anything to make things easier.. BTW.. you play corps, 
> > right? :) 
> 
> Actually, no. I bought it when it came out, thought "This is brilliant!", 
> and then forgot about it. Why, have I just re-invented the wheel?
 
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com           http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

Thought for the day:
    Dictatorship (n): a form of government under which everything 
    which is not prohibited is compulsory.

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 12:31:02 EST
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Initial colonization considerations

In a message dated 1/30/98 16:26:09 PM Pacific Standard Time,
johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU writes:

<< In your case, I suspect that what happened in Australia would be a good
 model. The 'trained' ones (ie: non-convicts) would rule the roost and get
 the good land, and the convicts either dumped somewhere inhospitable to
 scratch or die, or live as slaves.  >>


A pretty good read on the involuntary colonization idea (and a FABULOUS series
about guerilla warfare and LIC) is 2 books by Jerry Pournelle...Go Tell The
Spartans and Prince of Sparta.  You might give them a try and see what you
think.

Ed Jenkins (DustyLV769@aol.com)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 11:39:03 -0600
From: deadeye@ebicom.net
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

CardSharks@aol.com wrote:
> 
> This is an extract from the charts for Jump in T4.1
>         Complication 1: DestinationWorld is smaller. If the DestinationWorld is
> smaller than the OriginWorld, the ship will leave jumpspace closer to the
> world. The ship will be unable to decelerate enough to stop at the
> DestinationWorld and it will have to spend extra time maneuvering.


This sounds like the ship _must_ come out at the 100Diam point.  Is this
a necessity?  That would seem to preclude useful insystem
jumps(microjump)if there are no large planetary bodies in the outsystem.

In the real universe, nearly all systems have high relative velocities
to one another(ex 140km/sec for Barnards Star WRT Sol, the highest of
our local cluster.(1))  This a minor problem but should necessitate a
ship matching vectors before jump, probably well away from the mainworld
to avoid traffic.   To calculate a vector match I use: 
_____________________________________________________________________________
Time to Kill 140km/s Relative Velocity(140km/s to 0km/s)
 
t=V/a

	V=140km/s(for Barnard, top end of local group)
	a=1.0g(10m/s) (up to 6g available in Trav!)

 t then is 3.9 hrs
_____________________________________________________________________________

All velocities are relative, and the target planet "not going in the
right direction" match is less than the vector match of the target
system's relative motion (as the target world is always being carried
along with the system at approximately its relative motion.)  Just shave
a few km/sec off the target v and you have a ship vector matched for
opposite direction in orbit.
_____________________________________________________________________________
Angular Velocity of Earth to Sun

V= x/t  (where x= dist and t is time)
	x=3.141(2)(149 E 9m)=	936 E 9m (pi x diam)
	t= 365.25day/yr(24 hr/day)(3600s/hr)=315.6 E 5 s

V then is 2.97 E 4 m/s = 29.7 km/s
_____________________________________________________________________________

This is almost an order of magnitude lower than the relative motion
match, and could be assumed to be taken into consideration in the ships
nav programs.  The maximum V to accel to would be about 170km/s, and min
would be 110km/sec.  Better run those programs!

>         Complication4: DestinationWorld is occluded by another world or star. If
> another world or star in located on a straight line between the OriginWorld
> and the DestinationWorld, the ship will leave jumpspace when it first crosses
> a sphere 100 diameters out from the intervening body. This may cause the ship
> to leave jumpspace elsewhere in the intended system, or even in another
> system.

A nice complication if the ships jump precipitates by gravity (ala Larry
Niven.) I never envisioned Jspace to be like that-it would be more of a
hyperspace system. Jspace seems more like diving "into" space using
higher dimensions, so that the only points a jumpship travels through
are _literally_ the exit and emergence points.  There are no intervening
bodies in realspace(that we know of.) This allows the time independence
of jump ~168 hrs because that is the shortest distance/time between the
two realspace points.

>         Complication5: DestinationWorld is within 100 diameters of the system star.
> If the DestinationWorld is within 100 diameters of the system star, the ship
> will leave jump space farther out from the world than desired. The ship will
> have undertake additional maneuver to reach the destination.

This is valid.  It would also put Earth within the 100 diam limit. 
(Sol=1 million mile diam, Earth @ 93 million miles radius.) There will
not be a whole lot of ships precipitating out near worlds in the
habitable zone.

Finally, an additional complication or two: 
 
a)Space is not a vacuum.  What happens to a rouge rock, dust mote or
hydrogen atom when ISS Oblivion drops out of jump right "on top" of it? 
I propose Jdrive is sort of like a wormhole, and drags its origin space
along with it when it jumps "extruding" into realspace.  

b)TrafCon- having everybody and their brother jumping at random points
insystem could be a big hazard.  What if SS Bulkhauler is transiting the
emerging ships exit point when it precipitates?  Controlled systems will
have definate spaces set aside for jump/precipitation, with certain
EXACT corridors defined for incoming/outgoing ships, and arrivals from
nearby origin worlds.  Since there is no FTL comm, you can't tell
control of your intentions to "arrive here at this time," so the next
best thing is having arrival windows - preprogrammed slots and quadrants
for your origin world.  Of course you could drop in waaaaay outsystem,
but that wastes valuable time and money.

????

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 09:30:41 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: SysGen -- system generation software

At 08:23 AM 1/31/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-01-30 19:32:50 EST, you write:
>
><< * DOS-based -- I am using the DJGPP C++ compiler.  The software will be
> DOS native.  The software is Win95 compatible - >>
>
>Regardless of individual preferences, it should be Win95, not Win95
>compatible. It would be great experience for you programming.

Marc, I hate to disagree, but many of us simply refuse to use Win95.  I'm
very happy with MS-DOS 6.22 and Win 3.1.
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 09:26:06 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: sin in traveller?

At 04:34 PM 1/30/98 -0500, you wrote:

>>Ls = Biodome world, this world is totally hostile to human life.
>
>   Problem I can see with this is that *every* world that doesn't have a
>breathable atmosphere (particularly worlds with atmosphere A+) will have
>some kind of bio-domes.

Unless the population is a native species...  I kind of like this addition
as a trade code.  It would make for a good market for Ag worlds (anything
but cultured yeast!), and differentiate worlds that have bio-domes from
those that have adapted or modified colonists.

- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 11:48:40 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Canon Thoughts

kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de writes:
>
>> Kinunir Class was 1250 tons...
>
>
>
>	When we played it, it was an impressing ship. 


Even more so when you have the 25mm deck plans covering your floor...

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 12:56:37 -0500
From: Daniel Ray Lane <drlane@edgenet.net>
Subject: MegaTraveller Book Order

CardSharks@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 97-07-27 09:05:47 EDT, you write:
> 
> <<
>  I noted your comment about being able to sell a complete set of MT.  As a
>  collector, what would that set cost?
> 
>   >>
> 
> I have the following:
> 
> MEGATRAVELLER
>                 Players’ Handbook       $10
>                 Referee’s Handbook      10
>                 Imperial Encyclopedia   10
>                 Referee's Companion     10
>                 Rebellion Sourcebook    10
>                 COACC   10
>                 Fighting Ships  10
>                 Knightfall      10
>                 Hard Times      14
> 
> Shipping is $3 for an order.
> 
> Marc Miller


Marc,

My apologies for misplacing this e-mail (I forgot about it when I moved.
I was wondering if you still have these on hand?  If so, I would like
to order a copy of each.  How should I make the check out and how
should I address the envelope?

Dan Lane

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #82
*********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Saturday, January 31 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 083



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Heretics and heathens
Re: T4.1 and Marc Miller
Re: Canon Thoughts
My Web Site
Re: My Web Site
Nova's...
Re: SysGen -- system generation software
Re: T4.1 and Marc Miller
Re: MegaTraveller Book Order
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: SysGen -- system generation software
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 09:16:12 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Heretics and heathens

At 07:33 PM 1/30/98 PST, you wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>> Give us all a break and take the Christian bashing elsewhere.
>
>Paul, it's *not* Christian bashing. It is, alas the truth. There *are*
>people like that. Even priests/ministers. *I* don't consider such
>people to *be* Christians, regardless of what they call themselves.

If you don't believe it can possibly be true, read alt.conspiracy for *one*
day.  Very scary, indeed.
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 09:47:06 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: T4.1 and Marc Miller

At 06:16 PM 1/30/98 -0500, you wrote:

>  If I may be so bold as to ask/point out to the list...
>
>  Instead of telling Marc "build the best error free T4.1) you can, so we
>can rip it up showing where the errors are, why don't we all work together
>on submitting things to him specifically with the express intent of
>helping him?

The project I am currently working on, At Close Quarters, is a variant
combat system based on my years of experience shooting, my training as a US
Army Sniper, and talking to dozens of police officers and combat veterans.
I offered to give it to IG for T4.1 for just the credit.  Others have done
the same with other projects.  So far, the only item I know has made it in
was QSDS.

Some of the best products for T4 have been written by list members, but
Marc has the final say, for better or worse.

>  Instead of saying "this is wrong - fix it", why don't we all actually
>take the current rule that we thing is wrong, or the proceedure that we
>think is wrong, and submit something that fixes it?

Once again, we have discussed endlessly ways to fix Traveller, to correct
the stellar data, smooth out clunky rules.. I don't know how much effect we
have, but our collective complaints about the T$ task system has lead to
some changes.

>  #1 rule to abide by though: this *HAS* to be a labor of love, no
>monetary rewards expected...

Considering IG's record of paying people, that's already assumed.  But on
the other hand, my time and effort are valuable.  I've put hundreds of
hours into ACQ.  I'd *like* to get something back for it, even if it's a
minimal amount.  I've just sold a history of Traveller article to Troll
Magazine.  The contract arrived promptly, and the editor assured me that my
check will be mailed when the issue is printed.  This makes me feel good,
and I'm enquiring if they would like further material from me.  Contrast
this to the work I've done for IG, where I have to beg for information,
what work I submit is massacred (the illustrations for my JTAS article, my
ship designs in IS) and payment is no where in sight.

If this is a labor of love, it's starting to feel like an abusive
relationship.

>  #2 rule to abide by: all judgment must be left in Marc's hands.  If we
>disagree with something, but he disagrees with our disagreement, then take
>it for what it's worth...

It is his game.  We are all eager to help and playtest.

>  #3 Although it would be nice to see our names in print - we should be
>content with the fact that something was fixed, and enjoy the *self
>satisfaction* that goes with that thought.  Thus, no listing of credits
>for who did what or who was involved unless Marc feels it necessary.
>However, to be fair, those people who submit concepts are also playing a
>vital role in the creation process by virtue of showing Marc what he
>doesn't want and/or why.

Sorry, but no.  If I do something, I want at least public acknowledgement
of my acts.  I did the ships for IS because Joe is a friend of mine and he
needed help.  No money was discussed.  But I did ask for a nice credit.  I
don't care if my name is in 8-point type in the "Additional Design and
Development" section as long as it's there and spelled correctly.

<snip>

I agree with you that we should provide help when asked, but my faith in IG
is so shaken by this point, that I have to wonder if it's worth the effort.
 I'm a die-hard Traveller fan, but even I have my limits.

I apologize for the tone, but I am getting very frustrated with being told
that I should write more and more for less and less.

- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 11:48:40 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Canon Thoughts

kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de writes:
>
>> Kinunir Class was 1250 tons...
>
>
>
>	When we played it, it was an impressing ship. 


Even more so when you have the 25mm deck plans covering your floor...

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 98 18:32 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: My Web Site

....has just been updated, including a bit more in the Traveller 
section.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 10:50:02 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: My Web Site

My website also has been updated.  Of particular interest, you might
want to click on "Current Game" and follow the links from there.

Page is at : http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/5823/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 12:11:53 -0700
From: Sanders <timmon@primenet.com>
Subject: Nova's...

- --=====================_886299113==_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Someone brought up Nova's in Traveller, so I thought I'd post this old HIWIG
doc...for what it's worth :)

****

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- --=====================_886299113==_--

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 15:03:48 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: SysGen -- system generation software

I too have dragged my feet on w95.  I don't like it but Microsoft pretty much
owns the field.  I'm using win 3.11 (w/ win32s) but I know which  way the wind
is blowing and will probably go that way eventually.  Win 95 would be best.

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 15:58:14 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: T4.1 and Marc Miller

In a message dated 98-01-31 12:58:36 EST, you write:

<< >  Instead of telling Marc "build the best error free T4.1) you can, so we
 >can rip it up showing where the errors are, why don't we all work together
 >on submitting things to him specifically with the express intent of
 >helping him?
 
 The project I am currently working on, At Close Quarters, is a variant
 combat system based on my years of experience shooting, my training as a US
 Army Sniper, and talking to dozens of police officers and combat veterans.
 I offered to give it to IG for T4.1 for just the credit.  Others have done
 the same with other projects.  So far, the only item I know has made it in
 was QSDS.
 
>>

I'll make the point that I am writing on T4.1 just about every day, and that I
share with the list the completed materials (so far: Chargen, Tasks, Skills).
I am working on Fighting / Personal Combat at the moment. I suppose, if
pressed, I could complete Equipment, Weapons, and Vehicles fairly quickly if
pressed.

As to offering ACQ to IGF, everyone knows that don't respond very quickly to
anything.

Personal Combat (in draft) is explicitly task based... an attempt to provide
in spelled out form how to actually do combat.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 15:58:04 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: MegaTraveller Book Order

In a message dated 98-01-31 12:58:12 EST, you write:

<< > 
 > I have the following:
 > 
 > MEGATRAVELLER
 >                 Players’ Handbook       $10
 >                 Referee’s Handbook      10
 >                 Imperial Encyclopedia   10
 >                 Referee's Companion     10
 >                 Rebellion Sourcebook    10
 >                 COACC   10
 >                 Fighting Ships  10
 >                 Knightfall      10
 >                 Hard Times      14
 > 
 > Shipping is $3 for an order.
 > 
 > Marc Miller
 
 
 Marc,
 
 My apologies for misplacing this e-mail (I forgot about it when I moved.
 I was wondering if you still have these on hand?  If so, I would like
 to order a copy of each.  How should I make the check out and how
 should I address the envelope?
 
 Dan Lane
  >>

Make the check to Far Future

Mail your order to

Far Future
1418 North Clinton Blvd
Bloomington IL 61701
USA

Make sure you include a copy of this email with your oder, and include your
own address.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 98 21:24 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

In-Reply-To: <3137f369.34d3424f@aol.com>

> This is an extract from the charts for Jump in T4.1
>  
> Marc Miller

[snip]

>  Complication2: DestinationWorld is larger. If the DestinationWorld is larger
> than the OriginWorld, the ship will leave jump space farther out. The ship
> will have to travel farther to reach the DestinationWorld.
>  Complication5: DestinationWorld is within 100 diameters of the system star.
> If the DestinationWorld is within 100 diameters of the system star, the ship
> will leave jump space farther out from the world than desired. The ship will
> have undertake additional maneuver to reach the destination.

ie A ship may not come out of j/space within 100d, although it may *enter* 
closer (risky).

>  Complication3: DestinationWorld is not in the direction the ship is going
> (that is, when it entered jump, its vectors of speed and direction was
> retained; when it leaves jump, that vector is not pointed at the
> DestinationWorld). If the DestinationWorld is not in the exact direction the
> ship is travelling, the ship will have to maneuver to reach its destination.
> This may require a course change of up to 180 degrees.

This, and other complications, are solved by making a "standing" rather than 
"running" jump.

>  Complication4: DestinationWorld is occluded by another world or star. If
> another world or star in located on a straight line between the OriginWorld
> and the DestinationWorld, the ship will leave jumpspace when it first crosses
> a sphere 100 diameters out from the intervening body. This may cause the ship
> to leave jumpspace elsewhere in the intended system, or even in another
> system.

I still don't like this new idea (well, new to Traveller, but you've suggested 
it before). If this were true, ships would most likely move to a location 
above/below the plane of the ecliptic before jumping (and arrive at a similar 
location), to minimise the chance of meeting something along the way. Secondly, 
you would expect to see more misjumps arriving along the route, (and in the 
destination system, near a different world), whereas in fact they arrive 
randomly. Third, it implies a much closer connection between real space and 
jump space than has previously been suggested. This change breaks canon and may 
have far-reaching implications. I can't think of a single reason for including 
this.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 98 21:24 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: SysGen -- system generation software

In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980131093041.32cfb3f6@mail.hooked.net>

Douglas,

> >Regardless of individual preferences, it should be Win95, not Win95
> >compatible. It would be great experience for you programming.
>  
> Marc, I hate to disagree, but many of us simply refuse to use Win95.  I'm
> very happy with MS-DOS 6.22 and Win 3.1.

OTOH, I use W95 and refuse to touch W3.x with a 10' (sorry, 3.048m) pole. 
My preference for the s/w would be:

1. Designed for W95
2. Designed for W3.x, but will run under W95
3. Designed for DOS, but will run under W3.x and W95
4. DOS only
5. Something else
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 98 21:24 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

In-Reply-To: <34D361B7.65F6@ebicom.net>

> >         Complication 1: DestinationWorld is smaller. If the DestinationWorld is
> > smaller than the OriginWorld, the ship will leave jumpspace closer to the
> > world. The ship will be unable to decelerate enough to stop at the
> > DestinationWorld and it will have to spend extra time maneuvering.
>  
> This sounds like the ship _must_ come out at the 100Diam point.  Is this
> a necessity?  That would seem to preclude useful insystem
> jumps(microjump)if there are no large planetary bodies in the outsystem.

What it means is, you can't come out *within* 100d; you can come out at any point 
outside it.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 98 14:04:31 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation

On 01/31/98 at 08:23 AM,  HAL <hal@buffnet.net> said:

<snip>

>The phrase I was looking for above was angular momentum <sigh>...

<snip>

Thanks for the reply Hal. It agreed with what I *thought* (we always like
our thoughts agreed with don't we?), and theory is always useful, but for
gaming purposes I was looking for something more along the lines of what
Charles and Bruce posted...

On 01/31/98 at 11:54 AM,  Bruce <bmac@astro.ucla.edu> said:

>TYpical star-star velocities would be on the order of 50 km/s, a normal
>distribution (actually two normal distributions,l as there's a small
>population of older "halo stars' with a few hundred km/s average
>velocity.  

On 01/31/98 at 12:56 PM,  Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU> said:

>Some stars will have near 0 relative motion (stars of the same cluster)
>while Barnard's star-Sol has a relative motion of 78km/s. I know of no
>model that would predict the distributions. i would assume most would be
>in the less than 10km/s range.

Hum...let's leave Pop II stars aside for the moment because they are
sports that won't come up very often and deal with Pop III stars.  We've
got three suggestions for relative differences in motion between stars:
Hal suggested in the "teens", Charles suggested in the "less than 10km/s
range", and Bruce suggests "on the order of 50 km/s."  I consider Bruce
the resident expert on matters astronomical, so I'm leaning *heavily*
toward his number, BUT just to clarify...

Bruce, are you saying that, on average, there is a 50km/s difference
between nearby stars?  Or are you saying that stars distribute normally
around 50km/s, and if so with what variance?

I was hoping that *most* stars within a few parsecs of each other would
have rather low relative motions.  

What I want to do is include a number (Vr) with the UPP for each system
that is an *abstract* representation it's relative motion to some fixed
point (a distant pulsar should work).  Ships jumping would have to perform
a "burn" changing their delta-V by the difference in this number between
systems A to B. (I know a heading and velocity are really needed, but I
want to abstract that for simplicity.)

After subtracting the Vr of A from B the resulting difference would be
the magnitude of the burn, in km/s and the sign would be the direction
of the burn.

My first thought on this was 4d6-4 (min:0, avg:10, max:20) for each star,
but this was just a SWAG.  It also doesn't handle sports with very high
relative motions.  I'd like to be able to generate one of those
*rarely*...perhaps if a 0 comes up on the roll, reroll is done using a
1d100. 

This jibes with Charles and Hal's posts, but if I'm not misreading
Bruce's post is *way* too low. What about it Bruce?

>> How easy would it be to determine vector differences between systems
>>within a 6 parsec radius?  

Bruce...
>This is a remarkably easy number to measure with a science-grade sensor
>just look at the doppler shift of the target star.

Charles...
>Opinion:  this should be a difficult task with TL8-11?sensors.  Average
>task TL12+ sensors.  this task would be common in Milieu 0 and TNE ( both
>noted for having faulty star charts) and uncommon in CT and MT. 

I think I'll go with a Difficult Task with normal sensors, Routine with
Science-grade sensors. 

Now, about Task duration...30 minutes sound about right?

Charles...
>those with higher relative motions would be common to take a
>measurement before jump anyway.

Agreed, but that would be up to the players.  If they want to depend on
their "bible", I won't stop them.  OTOH, I also want to know how likely
they are to royally screw up if they *don't* do a confirming observation.

Charles...
>Whether the database of vectors would still be usable depends on
>how it is writen I would say 500 years except TNE had massive data
>corruption, CT and MT had ongoing surveys to determine if the database
>needed adjustment

How long a database would stay "good" does depend on the era.  CT/MT's
Scout Service would have maintained upto date databases, so yearly updates
during annual maintenance would handle that.  TNE's databases would be
mostly trashed, and all the observations/calculations should be redone from
scratch.  M0, however, simply had *old* databases, in some cases over a
thousand years old; would these old bibles still be good?

Bruce...
>It does lead to an interesting consequence, though - since the duration
>of a jump is uncertain, and since (presumably) your jump exit point
>moves with time at your pre-jump velocity, the best way to jump is to
>pre-match your velocity with the target world - otherwise if you come
>out 3 hours early your target world will have moved a million km out of
>the way.  

That's what I had in mind.  

In "mapped" space each ship will have a Bible containing the
astrogational information needed to calculate the burn needed to match
orbital vector from Alpha-3 to Beta-2.  The Astrogator would consult the
database, do the calculation (or have the computer do it) and direct the
Pilot to make the appropriate burn prior to jump.  On jump-emergence,
the Astrogator would make observations, calculate addition vector
changes (as required delta-V), plot a course from the jump-point to the
target world, and pass it on to the Pilot.

In "unmapped" space the Astrogator will have to calculate the burn from
observations, and won't be able to match orbital velocity with planets
in the target system because she won't know what or where they are.
However, I would think our explorer would want to, at least, match the
stars relative velocity and *maybe* try to hit the orbital velocity of
the jump-point she is aiming for.  

Bruce...
>Actually, what's harder is to get a sufficiently precise distance to
>the target star - parallax errors mean that the first time you jump to
>it the distance will be uncertain by a few hundred AU, unless you take
>multiple sightings from different systems.

Ah!  That's a complication, but with a hook.  In an exploration setting
then, the Astrogator would want to "shoot" all the stars in area from
each system as the ship moves through, correct.  This would refine the
distance calculations as they go.  How fast would the area of
uncertainty collapse, that is..if you have an uncertainty of a few
hundred AU with a one star sighting, what uncertainty will you have with
a two, three, four, n star sighting?


Now about the other half of my question...

The ship is in orbit around Alpha-3 and wants to match orbital velocity
with Alpha-7, ignoring how the ship gets from planet to planet, the
delta-V needed is simply the difference in orbital velocity, correct?

Orbital Velocity would be calculated as:

 R = Distance from primary in AU
 M = Mass in Solar Masses
 
  Period = (R^3 / M)^.5 * 31,557,600 seconds
  
  Circumference = 2 * (R) * Pi
  
  Orbital Velocity = (Circumference / Period) km/s

Example:

Terra-Earth :   Period = 31,557,600 sec
                Circum = 9.3996e8 km
                Vel    = 29.79 km/s
              
Terra-Mercury : Period = (.4^3/1)^.5 * 31,557,600 = 7,983,512 sec
                Circum = 59,800,000 * 2 * Pi      = 3.573e8 km
                Vel                               = 47.06 km/sec
                                
Terra-Jupiter : Period = (5.2^3/1)^.5 * 31,557,600 = 3.742e8 sec
                Circum = 777,900,000 * 2 * Pi      = 4.888e9 km
                Vel                                = 13.06 km/sec

Needed burn for Earth to Mercury is 47.06 - 29.79 = 17.27 km/s   

                Earth to Jupiter is 29.79 - 13.06 = 16.73 km/s
                
Does all that look right?

                                
Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #83
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Sunday, February 1 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 084



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: SysGen -- system generation software
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #82
Robots, Starship plans, and Fasa
Re: MegaTraveller Book Order
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Heretics and heathens
Re: Heretics and Heathens (fwd)
Re: Canon Thoughts
Re: Ship Overlays
Infini-V for Windows
Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation
Re: AUCTION: TRAVELLER CT\MT\TNE\T4 materials update #5
re: has ANYONE been paid?
Re: Infini-V for Windows
Re: old tramp frieghters
Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation
Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation
Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation
Software and jumpwar (was RE: SysGen -- system generation software)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 18:03:57 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: SysGen -- system generation software

One consideration should be that industry analysist are saying that with the
release of Win98 (?) the Evil Empire will probably NOT support DOS or
Win3.1. Even now most new software is on Win95. I have to agree with Marc's
statement that if the gentleman is using this for educational purposes he
should probably concider '95 or even NT. Unfortunately we can't turn back
the clock, and these will probably be the systems he'll have to deal with in
the Real World (tm).

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Saturday, January 31, 1998 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: SysGen -- system generation software


>I too have dragged my feet on w95.  I don't like it but Microsoft pretty
much
>owns the field.  I'm using win 3.11 (w/ win32s) but I know which  way the
wind
>is blowing and will probably go that way eventually.  Win 95 would be best.
>
>Gary

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 18:19:55 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

In a bit of rebuttle, I totally agree with this rule. It's near the way I
currently play Jump in my own campaign. Logically any gravity well should be
the same as another to Jump drives and should act on them accordingly. This
gives the Navigator a  bit more to do in transit, calculating the optimuim
jump point (a task roll) and calculating orbits from jump point (entry) to
destination (again task rolls). I can also be used as a "situation", if the
navigator misses his task roll and the ship lands in the wrong part of the
system. At one point the crew of an older freighter had to call for a tug
since they didn't have enough fuel (older non-thruster plate ship) to
acheive their destination. (this was a pure set up since we normally don't
spend all that much time on the calcs, but I wanted them the spend some
credit!).

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Boulton <aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Saturday, January 31, 1998 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive


<Snipped Again>
>>  Complication4: DestinationWorld is occluded by another world or star. If
>> another world or star in located on a straight line between the
OriginWorld
>> and the DestinationWorld, the ship will leave jumpspace when it first
crosses
>> a sphere 100 diameters out from the intervening body. This may cause the
ship
>> to leave jumpspace elsewhere in the intended system, or even in another
>> system.
>
>I still don't like this new idea (well, new to Traveller, but you've
suggested
>it before). If this were true, ships would most likely move to a location
>above/below the plane of the ecliptic before jumping (and arrive at a
similar
>location), to minimise the chance of meeting something along the way.
Secondly,
>you would expect to see more misjumps arriving along the route, (and in the
>destination system, near a different world), whereas in fact they arrive
>randomly. Third, it implies a much closer connection between real space and
>jump space than has previously been suggested. This change breaks canon and
may
>have far-reaching implications. I can't think of a single reason for
including
>this.
>______________________________________________________________________
>Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
> "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 11:16:08
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #82

At 12:57 PM 31/01/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 12:31:02 EST
>From: DustyLV769@aol.com
>Subject: Re: Initial colonization considerations
>
>In a message dated 1/30/98 16:26:09 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU writes:
>
><< In your case, I suspect that what happened in Australia would be a good
> model. The 'trained' ones (ie: non-convicts) would rule the roost and get
> the good land, and the convicts either dumped somewhere inhospitable to
> scratch or die, or live as slaves.  >>
>

What happened in Australia was actually very different. The colony was
exteremely short of labour, and the convicts were quickly able to turn this
favourable bargaining position into good wages.

The colony was very short of cash money, and a rum economy soon developed,
managed by the local military (the NSW Corps). The problem for employers
was that whilst you could force a convict workforce to work by legal means,
getting them to work well required their co-operation (ie by paying them).
This was especially true for convicts who had to work without supervision,
such as shepherds.

Many of the convicts were also trained professionals at various things, and
these people often ended up being more successful at their real trade than
they could have been as criminals. I am especially thinking of a famous
architect, whose name I forget (*grin* doncha hate forgetting what you
learned in high school).

The colonial authorities also realised that convicts on parole needed much
less supervision etc, and developed a system of "tickets of leave", where a
convict had most of the rights of a free settler, but couldnt leave the
colony until their total time was up or they got a full pardon by other means.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 20:39:17 -0500
From: John Toth <jtoth@erols.com>
Subject: Robots, Starship plans, and Fasa

Hi everyone,
Just 3 quick Questions.
1) Lets say that a small group of Characters is attempting to use a 
Starship and the group is down a required Engineer.  If they go out to buy 
a Robot to 'fill in', would one Robot be enough or would two (because 
robots are not the swiftest thingies about) be a more realistic answer?

2) I am sorry to the few people who could not view my Starship Plans of my 
Far Ranger.  I am currently working to put the Plans on my good friends Web 
Page.  Thing will start going a little more rapidly once I tell Him about 
this.  When the Plans are Posted I will post the Address.

3) Last but not least, I just wanted to let everyone know that I have just 
bought FASA Adventure Class Ships Vol. 1 for $5.00.

Everyone have a nice day.

John

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 01:49:43 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: MegaTraveller Book Order

On Sat, 31 Jan 1998 15:58:04 EST, CardSharks@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 98-01-31 12:58:12 EST, you write:
> 
> << > 
>  > I have the following:
>  > 
>  > MEGATRAVELLER
>  >                 Players’ Handbook       $10
>  >                 Referee’s Handbook      10
>  >                 Imperial Encyclopedia   10
>  >                 Referee's Companion     10
>  >                 Rebellion Sourcebook    10
>  >                 COACC   10
>  >                 Fighting Ships  10
>  >                 Knightfall      10
>  >                 Hard Times      14
>  > 
>  > Shipping is $3 for an order.
>  > 
>  > Marc Miller
> 
> Make the check to Far Future
> 
> Mail your order to
> 
> Far Future
> 1418 North Clinton Blvd
> Bloomington IL 61701
> USA
> 
> Make sure you include a copy of this email with your oder, and include your
> own address.

I am hoping that you still have a few of each left, and not just one or
two.  If so, I'd be interested in the Rebellion Sourcebook, as well as
Knightfall and COACC.

What are your shipping charges to Canada?



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mono au mono, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 19:22:42 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Sat, 31 Jan 1998 10:25:00 EST, CardSharks@aol.com

>Upon arrival, it retains its speed and direction (which happens to point
>directly at the intended destination.

This could be worded better (in addition to the missing close paren).
It sort of implies, if the reader reads it causally, that velocity
pointing at destination is part of the jump, rather than how it
was arranged to be.

I would make it... "Upon arrival, it retains its speed and direction
(usually arranged to point at the intended destination).

>	Complication4: DestinationWorld is occluded by another world or
>star. If
>another world or star in located on a straight line between the OriginWorld
>and the DestinationWorld, the ship will leave jumpspace when it first crosses
>a sphere 100 diameters out from the intervening body. This may cause the ship
>to leave jumpspace elsewhere in the intended system, or even in another
>system.

What are the odds of this?  Not very significant I would think (unless
you are talking about a nearby moon or something).

Also, should there be some mention that one also has to account for
the relative orbital velocities of the worlds and the galatic motions
of the stars in this process?

I also assume this will be more background and something the
GM will abstract rather than something that need to be calculated
each time a PC jumps...

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 21:39:52 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Heretics and heathens

From: Kenji Schwarz <kenji@accessone.com>

>For you fringe-watchers out there, this is the same clique as whose
>spokesmodel, a few years back during that Weaver business up in those
>parts, was interviewed outside their compound by a swarm of network
>reporters, denounced Z.O.G. and proclaimed that "Randy Weaver is the ONLY
>MAN in Montana who has any honor!  Yes, HONOR!  Let me SPELL that for you
>people.  That's _honor_, H-O-N-E-R!"

He's the only person that plays the harmonica?  I would have thought that
lot's of folks in big sky country like that would play the mouth harp.  :-)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 98 03:52 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Heretics and Heathens (fwd)

Moin Leonard Erickson,

> > He reports that the most common answer he got was "Why barbers?"
> >
> > Scary, isn't it?
> 
> Not really. Heck, *I* would tend to ask that. Not because I agree, but
> because while I'm familiar with most of the reasons folks dislike jews,
> I'd be wondering what he had against barbers. *After* he answers, then
> I'll likely know if there's any point in arguing with him.

	Well this should be clear. In german and keltic religion a man
	showed his hairs and his beard full proud. Only slaves had cutted
	hairs. The baber is now making everybody to slaves. The first thing
	done in the army to enslave free man, is to cut their hairs,
	and members of the green party (you know the irish folk) still say
	" good shave the queen ".

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 98 03:38 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Canon Thoughts

Moin Rob Prior,

> Even more so when you have the 25mm deck plans covering your floor...

	I think I have to cite them, as probatlely nobody here, has
	this version :

	" Ein Subsectorbeamter erklaert grossmaeulig, dass die
	  Streitkraefte des Subsectors vier Schiffe der Kinunir
	  Klasse haben, jedes mit genuegend Truppen bemannt, um
	  alle Militaeroperationen niederzuschlagen, die eine
	  Bedrohung des Friedens darstellen koennen. "

	Well the good old CT, when deckplans of major ships managed
	to cover two pages, and traveller had a position to be translated
	in different langugaes.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 19:06:47 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Ship Overlays

<cybernot@gte.net> writes:
>Probably, but (you knew that but was coming didn't you), you would need a
>different layout and overlay for each design and you would have to know
>what
>was under the skin of each ship in question.  It's easy with personal
>combat, you look at the picture and say to yourself, if I was hit in the
>[insert body part here], then I would(n't)...

- -----

Brilliant Lances (the TNE small-scale tactical space combat boardgame) had
that effect.  When you hit a ship, you rolled for location, depending on
what aspect of the ship was facing you. Different facings had different
hit tables.  One of the features I liked about the game, and will try to
reincorporate into T4 (if I switch to T4 for space rules).

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 19:29:34 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Infini-V for Windows

I have probably located an experienced programmer to port Infini-V(1) to
Windows. One decision factor for him will be how many people would
actually pay their shareware fees.  Most of you have heard of Infini-V
(called CSC in an earlier beta version) by now.  Would you pay for a
Windows version?



Notes:

(1) Infini-V is a CAD system for CSC-style vehicles, running on the
Macintosh.  It is an official CORE product. You can download a demo
version at <www.interlog.com/~dmci104/GamingClub/Traveller/software.html>.
 The demo is identical to the full version except that it doesn't print or
save vehicle designs. 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 22:13:39 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation

Hey Eris,  good questions.

>I've been thinking about a couple of astronomical questions that relate to
>astrogation.
>
>Star systems have differences in vector that a jumping ship would have to
>take into account.  What is the range of differences that could be normall
>expected?  Is it closer to 10, 30 or 100 km/s?  And would these differences
>be better modeled by a normal or uniform distribution?
>
>How easy would it be to determine vector differences between systems within
>a 6 parsec radius?  If it would be a routine task then ships would make
>these calculations on the fly, but if the task was difficult or took an
>extended period of time some sort of table of vectors would make more
>sense.  If such a "book" of vectors was appropriate, how often would it
>need updating?  Would it still be good after a thousand years? Five
>thousand?

I'm not an astronomer, but I know enough to write an astral navigation
program that will give you exact vectors if someone else could provide the
database.  Fact is that the computing power required to do such calculations
is so miniscule that you could do it on your business ring and not interfere
with it's normal functions.

However, what you should be asking is:  "Are there currents in jump-space
that would need to be accounted for?  Are they constant or do they change?
Will such currents (if they exist) be consisistant?"

If there are currents and they are consistant, the the programming could be
added to the business ring program without any problem.  If the changes are
gradual, then you should be able to get updates from the starport you are
leaving from (assuming there is one) or from other spacers.

I chose the business ring because it is designed to exchange information
with other simular rings with the wearer even being aware of the transaction
unless the information fits within certain pre-established parameters.

>Within a system ships would have to match orbital velocites when moving
>from jump point (or planet) to planet.  _Scouts_ had a lot of information,
>but it didn't include formulas for calculating orbital velocities, and, it
>seems to me, that would be rather important.  Are planetary orbital
>velocities based solely on distance from the primary? Are factors such as
>planetary density and stellar type important enough to be taken into
>account?

Can you fix a grontonator?  Your character knows how and really, that's all
that matters isn't it?  OTOH, a little orbital mechanics and understanding
of the vectors involved probably wouldn't hurt any thing.  If you are not
well versed in higher math though, most of what's available would be of no
use to you.  I've only seen one set of algebraic equations that deal with
the subject.  They were fairly straight forward and would give you enough
information to add a little flavor to your game.  They were written by Jerry
Pournelle in Galaxy magazine.

If you are interested,  I'll see if I can't find that issue and post them.

You can "home-brew" some of your own with just a little thought.  Presumably
you know the radius from the primary and the length of the year, from that
you can derive the angular velocity (speed at which the planet is moving).

Before I offer any more observations, perhaps I should wait and see if this
is what you had in mind.  I warn you though, it gets kinda hairy and the
astrologers (excuse me, I mean astronomers) aren't going to like it in it's
simplicity.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 22:37:54 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: AUCTION: TRAVELLER CT\MT\TNE\T4 materials update #5

I can't speak for anyone else, but I find your announcements annoying.

I didn't mind your making the anouncement to the list.  And I wouldn't say
anything if there was a couple of lines every day to remind us that the
auction was going on, but come on.  If I was interested, I would have bid.
You said at the out set that the bidders would be contacted privately to
apprais them of the bidding.

If you'll shorten the daily report to something like:

>Hi,
>
>*** only NINE days remaining ***
>
>I've deciced to auction off my Traveller collection of materials ranging
>from Classic to 4th Edition.  Some of the items below are in good shape,
>and are good finds.  [For more details you may contact me privately at
>pmiller@linkeasy.net]

I won't complain.  If you don't, I will.  'Nuff said.

[rant mode off]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 23:12:56 -0500
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: re: has ANYONE been paid?

Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com> communicates
>Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com asked:
>>     I keep seeing more and more posts from different people.
>>     Is there anyone on this list who was _actually paid_ for work in JTAS?
>
>I've been keeping my mouth shut, but I guess now's the time to speak up.
>I haven't been paid for FF&S2, and neither has my coauthor.

   Well, Psionic Institues and FF&S2 *were* on my list of things to pick up.
Now that I hear that the authors aren't getting paid, I don't see any
reason to spend $40+ on Imperium Games products until such serious matters
are fixed.


- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/  Opinions Mine!
Discord, the Goddess of the Net, was developing a taste for blood sacrifice.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 00:13:21 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Infini-V for Windows

ob please allow me to state in public that I would certainly pay a
reasonable fee. As on who has been interested in this product for some time.
Please also note that after a short (fustrateing) time attempting to use the
earlier CSC software with a MAC emulator it was deleted from my system.
Shareware Software is one of the best things to come along and should be
supported.

Thanks
Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: Rob Prior <Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Saturday, January 31, 1998 11:23 PM
Subject: Infini-V for Windows


>I have probably located an experienced programmer to port Infini-V(1) to
>Windows. One decision factor for him will be how many people would
>actually pay their shareware fees.  Most of you have heard of Infini-V
>(called CSC in an earlier beta version) by now.  Would you pay for a
>Windows version?
>
>
>
>Notes:
>
>(1) Infini-V is a CAD system for CSC-style vehicles, running on the
>Macintosh.  It is an official CORE product. You can download a demo
>version at <www.interlog.com/~dmci104/GamingClub/Traveller/software.html>.
> The demo is identical to the full version except that it doesn't print or
>save vehicle designs.
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 21:32:36 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@m9.sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: old tramp frieghters

I would love to see the design!

> On the subject of old ships (forgive me for digging up old threads, but I
> working my through a backlog of old TML digests), a great example was the
> Orrimot.  An old Villani design.  Complete with Fission reactors, hampster
> cages for gravity, and a flight computer that you had to load jump data on
> using *tapes*!
> 
> I've got the specs squirreled away on my home system somewhere.  If someone
> has 'em, please post for general list amusement.
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
> Joan of Arc: the patron saint of welders http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com           http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

And the quantium ducks sayth unto you
Quark, Quark Quark

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 23:48:27 -0600
From: deadeye@ebicom.net
Subject: Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation

I had a post that covered this a bit earlier today(31 Jan):)

Relative v depends on the stars involved, but my example between Sol and
Barnard's Star used a differential of 140 km/sec and resulted in a 4 hr
burn at 1g to get up/down to speed.  

Planetary motion for earth could add/subtract 30km/sec worst case from
the above number.

These things need big tables-unless your ship and its Hubble class
telecope are willing to wait a year to determine relative v.  Of course
you could just aim for the pretty point of light and make up the
difference once you miss by a few light minutes(or hours.)

Who does these things?  The scouts...when they are not drunk.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 98 23:43:25 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation

On 01/31/98 at 10:13 PM,  "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> said:

>However, what you should be asking is:  "Are there currents in jump-space
>that would need to be accounted for?  Are they constant or do they change?
>Will such currents (if they exist) be consisistant?"

As I see it, that's an entirely different problem. ;->

In my games, overcoming the N-space relative velocities between systems and
matching orbital velocites with planets are something that will be taken
care of by the reaction drives.  If I was dealing with reactionless drives
for this I wouldn't bother to include it, but I want the players to have to
keep an eye on their fuel gauges, so I need to know whether I'm talking
about a few , a few ten's or a few hundred's of km/s.  It looks like it's
in the few ten's range.

Jumps are done through wormholes created by the jump drive. That's part of
what the hydrogen is for, and I'm not going to debate it, because I'm
talking about *my* games here. ;-> 

The Astrogator uses special sensors to look down the wormhole and lock the
ship's course through it to another system. The quality of the sensors, of
the drive and the skill of the Astrogator determine the distance a ship can
jump, I even rate J-drives as 1.5, 2.5, etc drives. These half drives
indicate the equipment is good enough to allow a jump at the next higher
level with success on the "Jump Lock" task by the Astrogator at a higher
level of difficulty.

As you suggest, the shape of jump space doesn't have to be completely
uniform or stay consistant over multi-year periods. In my games it isn't. 
Every few years you have to update your "Jump Bible" or risk increased
chance of misjumps. If you haven't got an up-to-date book, you can waste a
load of injection mass (what laymen call jump fuel ;-) making a sighting,
or take your chances at an increase level of difficulty.


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 98 00:17:32 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation

On 01/31/98 at 11:48 PM,  deadeye@ebicom.net said:

>I had a post that covered this a bit earlier today(31 Jan):)

>Relative v depends on the stars involved, but my example between Sol and
>Barnard's Star used a differential of 140 km/sec and resulted in a 4 hr
>burn at 1g to get up/down to speed.  

Yes, but is the Sol-Barnard's Star differential near the mean or is it a
sport?  Bruce is suggesting the differential is about 50 km/s (I think
that's the mean differential he's referring to), and other people have
suggested lower mean differentials. 

>Planetary motion for earth could add/subtract 30km/sec worst case from the
>above number.

For earth, yes.  What about the difference between Regina-2 and Regina-3? 
My players don't just travel from mainworld to mainworld, sometimes they
travel between worlds in a system. ;->

I can figure the orbital velocity for the planets when I create the
systems, and I guess I'll have to.  It's just another calculation for the
program.

>These things need big tables-unless your ship and its Hubble class
>telecope are willing to wait a year to determine relative v.  Of course
>you could just aim for the pretty point of light and make up the
>difference once you miss by a few light minutes(or hours.)

Hum, I've seen that this would be everything from trivial to a year-long
exercise. It might be time to just come up with a good for play SWAG.

>Who does these things?  The scouts...when they are not drunk.

Yep, but my players will be going where the Scout Service hasn't been in
several thousand years...if ever. ;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 23:05:26 -0600
From: David Reed <david@techrefuge.com>
Subject: Software and jumpwar (was RE: SysGen -- system generation software)

Andrew thoughtfully added:
> OTOH, I use W95 and refuse to touch W3.x with a 10' (sorry, 3.048m) pole. 
> My preference for the s/w would be:
>
> 1. Designed for W95
> 2. Designed for W3.x, but will run under W95

These are acceptable to me (as I use NT4 almost exclusively), but please 
take care what shortcuts are used: some of them flake NT rather nastily 
(okay, so's it's not crash-proof, yet).  If you abide by the 95 logo 
requirements it'll run nicely on NT4, and I'll buy it.  FWIW, your largest 
target market with be the wintel world...  Everyone else is missing out on 
Jedi Knight, Diablo, and Heavy Gear anyway (the only reasons I ever go 
*back* to 95).

As an soon-to-be MSCSE, I'm always amazed at the so-called developers that 
thumb their collective noses at the huge cash cow that M$ provides.  My 
affinity for *nix and/or os-too-late never came close to the consulting 
dollars that M$ makes possible.  *shrug*  Give 'em what they want, and let 
them eat cake...  Heh.

> 3. Designed for DOS, but will run under W3.x and W95
> 4. DOS only
> 5. Something else

Go this route and I can't/won't buy it: it will most likely not run under 
NT.  ;-\  And I will cry...


TOTALLY off the subject (since my new zip drive managed to eat the 50MB of 
accumulated TML since last November when I vanished, take my ignorance of 
the jumpwar with a deer lick):

IMO, jump fuel is just that: no blowing bubbles, no matter insertion, no 
jump atmosphere, no silly crap like that.  Since grav technology seems to 
keep pace with jump, it makes much more sense to use a jump drive that is 
1) high speed energy converter, 2) mostly dedicated capacitors, 3) not used 
to do anything but convert pure H into e=mc^2, and then 4) use all that 
energy to create a highly focussed quasi-gravitic field to rip a hole in 
the weak fabric of interplanetary space into j-space, where we can tool 
along in a different quantum level before returning to n-space.

As we ALL know, contrary to archaic 20th Century theory, gravity wells 
STRENGTHEN the fabric of space rather than weaken it, and hence it is 
monumentally more difficult to open a jump-hole into j-space anywhere near 
a massive gravity well.

Any questions?

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
David Reed
webmaster@techrefuge.com                   The doorway to all freedoms
713.549.6931                               is framed with muskets ....

"Surely truth leads to virtue, and virtue leads to paradise." -Bukhari

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #84
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Sunday, February 1 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 085



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

RE: Canon Vargs
TL9 Slow Freighter and Jump Drive Debate
re: has ANYONE been paid?
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations II
Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Re: Jump Drive / Space / Time
Re: sofas of the Third Imperium 
Re:  Sophontophagism  (was Re: Brocolli)
Robots as Engineers
Re: MegaTraveller Book Order
Jumpwar!  Launch the TL9 fighters/jump capacitor drones...
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Jump Drive / Space / Time
CORE announces Infini-V
Re: Brocolli - was +D-D Discussion (renamed)
Re: Brocolli - was +D-D Discussion (renamed)
Some Jump rules; well guidelines anyway (very long)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 01:35:36 -0500
From: John H Bogan Jr <jbogan@pipeline.com>
Subject: RE: Canon Vargs

At 09:53 PM 1/29/1998, you wrote:
>Moin Miller, Chris,
>
>> 	I will say that the largest Vargr ship I remember seeing stats
>> for was about 10,000 tons. Kinda puny against a 200KTon BB, but then I
realized you can only fire that spinal mount so often, and there are a lot
of Vargr, and again, to a Far Trader etc, 10,000 tons  might as well  be
100,000.
>
>	Well the two large canon Vargr ships are the Foghoks 10 kTons
>	and Aek Naz 30kTons. As both are classfied as cruisers I think
>	Vargr BBs could be bigger, if they had some. Perhaps they prefer
>	the wolfpack of several cruisers over a single large BB. They are
>	only limited by psychology to small ships, not by HG techlevel
>	as there are also known Ueknou's at Tl:14.
>
>	The Aek Naz had just the size to mount a heavy spinal in MT.

At one point (in the CT era), the Kforuzeng corsairs
were building a ship that mounted a type-J
meson gun as primary weaponry.

As I don't have convenient access to my copies of
High Guard and CT Fighting Ships, could someone
who does give stats for the type-J and check
the size of Imperial vessels that had J-Mesons?

JB

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 20:10:30
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: TL9 Slow Freighter and Jump Drive Debate

At 02:25 AM 1/02/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>T
>From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@m9.sprynet.com>
>Subject: Re: old tramp frieghters
>
>I would love to see the design!
>
>> On the subject of old ships (forgive me for digging up old threads, but I
>> working my through a backlog of old TML digests), a great example was the
>> Orrimot.  An old Villani design.  Complete with Fission reactors, hampster
>> cages for gravity, and a flight computer that you had to load jump data on
>> using *tapes*!
>> 
>> I've got the specs squirreled away on my home system somewhere.  If someone
>> has 'em, please post for general list amusement.
>> 

I dont have his design, but I did a TL9 Slow Freighter using FFS2.

The good news is it is a 200 dton freighter that carries 1400 m3 of cargo a
jump 1 for 36.5 megacredits (even cheaper if bought with Imperial credits).
The bad news is it goes at 0.0022 gees, acheiving a velocity of 0.8 km per
second after 10 hours acceleration. It has enough reacton mass to maintain
this acceleration for 50 hours. Total mass is 2206 tons, assuming a full
load of cargo at 1t/m3.

200 dton sphere, stressed for 1 G with 3 cm of Light Cermaic Composites
(28.83m3, 172.98t, MCr 0.26)

55 megawatt Fission plant (55 m3, 330t, MCr 5.5)

2 months Fissionables (0.017 m3, 17.52t, MCr 0.007)

Jump-1 Drive (56 m3, 14.42 m2, 168t, MCr 16.8) - 50.4 MW

Jump Fuel (280 m3, 20t)

25 kN Gas Core Nuclear Thrust Reactor (0.3 m3, 0.5t, MCr 8.44)

50 hours H2 reaction mass (715 m3, 51.3t)

3x TL9 CM 0.5/CP 2 Computers (15 m3, 3t, MCr 0.75) - 1.8 MW

Sens 12.5 PEMS Scanner (2m3, 0.5 m2, 2t, MCr 2) 

1000 AU radio (0.3 m3, 200 m2, 0.6t, MCr 0.15) - 0.2 MW

Extended LS (not fuel tanks) (35.65 m3, 35.65 t, MCr 2.23 ) - 0.89 MW

2x Standard airlocks (6m3, 4 m2, 0.4t, MCr 0.01) - 0.002 MW

4x Computer Linked workstations (28 m3, 0.8 t, MCr 0.003)

Hi-Auto Comp Linked Controls (2.8 m3, 2.8t, MCr 0.21) - 0.1 MW

4 weeks normal rations (0.5 m3, 0.4 t)

0.5 m3 Freezer (0.6 m3, 0.06 t, MCr 0.001) - 0.001 MW

2 Small Staterooms (56 m3, 4t, MCr 0.08) - 0.002 MW

1400 m3 cargo (1400 m3, 1400 t)

Note that this ship does not react well to newfangled ideas like having to
match angular velocities with target systems (seriously ... have people
seen what requiring 1 gee for n hours is going to do to TL9 starfaring ?).

If any players inherit one of these from their great great great
grandfather, I would think strongly about selling the GCNTR to a museum and
buying something modern. Like Heplar.


>From: David Reed <david@techrefuge.com>
>IMO, jump fuel is just that: no blowing bubbles, no matter insertion, no 
>jump atmosphere, no silly crap like that.  Since grav technology seems to 
>keep pace with jump, it makes much more sense to use a jump drive that is 
>1) high speed energy converter, 2) mostly dedicated capacitors, 3) not used 
>to do anything but convert pure H into e=mc^2, and then 4) use all that 
>energy to create a highly focussed quasi-gravitic field to rip a hole in 
>the weak fabric of interplanetary space into j-space, where we can tool 
>along in a different quantum level before returning to n-space.
>
>As we ALL know, contrary to archaic 20th Century theory, gravity wells 
>STRENGTHEN the fabric of space rather than weaken it, and hence it is 
>monumentally more difficult to open a jump-hole into j-space anywhere near 
>a massive gravity well.
>
>Any questions?

Yeah. Can I use this high-speed energy converter and capacitors to power
other ship systems ? If it just energy, why not ? Converting 280 cubic
meters of H into energy in one hour should allow a *big* battery of fast
firing weapons.

Also, it isnt more difficult to make jump inside a gravity well. It's just
more difficult to get out the other side in n pieces, where n is a rational
number.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 02:12:36 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: re: has ANYONE been paid?

Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com> wrote:
   
>Well, Psionic Institues and FF&S2 *were* on my list of things to pick up.
>Now that I hear that the authors aren't getting paid, I don't see any
>reason to spend $40+ on Imperium Games products until such serious matters
>are fixed.
 
As someone who makes my (meager) living writing RPG supplements, I thank
you. 

My saga with IG is most interesting.  I first wrote my two articles for
JTAS in June of 1996 (a few months before T4 came out).  I wrote Ken
Whitman about submitting articles to JTAS, he wrote back and I submitted
them, as did my friend an frequent co-author Aaron Link.  I then asked if
my articles had arrived and heard nothing more from Ken Whitman (ever
again).  A few months later I contacted Tim Brown, when I found his name
and number, about working on other projects for Traveller.  When talking
to him he told me about the problems they had experienced with Ken and I
assumed all problems had been solved.  Then, JTAS # 25 came out.  My
friend Aaron's article appeared in it.  He received no contract and was
not paid.  After several letters to IG he finally received his check.  He
is one of only two people I know to have been paid by IG, and the other
person had to sue them (see below).  Around this time, Courtney Solomon
mentioned I should resubmit my two articles, since they had likely been
lost. 

I did so, "Contact: Suerrat" was published in JTAS # 26, in May.  I was
never notified about this, I heard about it on this mailing list.  I asked
about contracts and payments was assured they were "in the mail...".  Over
the summer Tim offered me a contract for a book for IG.  Fortunately for
me, I was a bit too busy and Imperial Squadrons wasn't my specialty, so I
declined.  I talked to Tim at GenCon 97 and he assured me that I would be
paid soon and that my contract should arrive within "a few days". 

In October, after another round of letters I received a contact in the
mail.  However, it was for my other article, a 8 page scenario, to be
published in JTAS # 27.  In spite of several emails and letters (I've
given up on phone calls) I've heard nothing more from IG since then.  They
now owe me a 20% kill fee for my scenario in addition to my payment for
the article in JTAS # 26.  I expect I'll never be paid for either. 

This has happened to me before in my projects, but usually when a company
is too broke or decides to cancel a product a line, not simply because
they decided never to pay me. 

IG are thieves, don't give them a dime of you money, and for gods' sake
don't write for them.  From now on, all IG products I buy will be bought
used. 

Either they are about to go under (if they can't afford to pay me my $90
they are pretty hard up) or they simply have a policy of not paying
people.  I suspect it's the second.  One author (who would likely prefer
to remain nameless) had to sue them because they offered him a contact
with royalties and then decided to lower they royalties after the contact
was signed and the book was on sale (it sold better than they expected and
they simply didn't want to pay that much). 


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 01:13:47 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations II

Marcus & Lurann Teter wrote:

> Yes, it may be only a TL 5 colony that is eventually established, but all
> the advantages of TL 9 must be used for establishing the colony.  I think
[snip]
> Surviving, and what is needed:
> Clearly, this represents a project of immense proportions.
[snip]
> Determining the ecology and biology of as much of the world will be an
> important factor for survival.  First, it would be unreasonable to assume
> that anything on the world would be edible.
[snip] However, there are no
> guarantees that any crop can be grown nor any animal can live on this
> world.  Consequently, there has to be a large variety of foodstuffs and a
> genetics team capable of altering earth organisms for survival on the
> world.  An alternative would be to construct greenhouses capable of
> growning the earth organisms (it could work, but I havn't thought out the
> implications of such a plan).
> Next, hazards need to be assessed.
[snip]  Hazardous organisms have to be
> identified and countermeasures developed. 
[snip] Beyond
> the purely biological problems,  whether patterns need to be established,
> and geologic stability needs to be determined.  Each requiring enough
> experts to reasonably assess the issues in question.
> Further, building materials need to be aquired.  If it turns out that there
> is nothing resembling a tree on the new world [snip]
[snip]

and then again everything could be a-ok.
Jim

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 00:39:36 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

Richard A. Flores wrote:

[ snipped ]
> that doesn't
> mean you would start your colony at TL-5.  You'd start it where the mother
> world was and use the accumulated knowledge to build the low tech items that
> would serve you better.

This line of thought gets my vote. Just because I move from the city to
the country doesn't mean that I have to be forget all the advantages I
had (or thought I had), it only means that I may have to adapt to
earlier technology in order to continue to exist because of lack of
available or easily obtainable product. Such would be the case on a
colonial world (country).

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 01:41:56 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Jump Drive / Space / Time

Darth@aol.com wrote:
[snip]
> There seems to be some concerns about the "scientific validity" of the FIXED
> amount of time a jump takes (approximately one standard week).  "Why the same
> amount of time for a Jump-5 as a Jump-1?"
> 
> I've always thought about it this way ...
[snip]
> In game terms, your jump distance is determined by the power of your energy
My question is not about the time taken but the distance travelled
particlarily in a mis-jump.
If the length of the jump is determined by the power input, are we then
saying that in a mis-jump, more power was inadvertently applied to
create a longer than maximum jump 6 (if that is what the random role(s)
generate).
Also, how could/would we generate the extra power suggested above, when
tech only allows j6. I can justify the random direction.

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 02:27:51 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: sofas of the Third Imperium 

kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz) wrote

>  And what _are_ the sofas of the Third Imperium like?

Well the sofas of the Rule of Man were presumably Second Empire style. 
:)

Canonical references to furniture styles in Traveller are scarce.  One
of the only ones I am aware of is the following:

"4. Phaeton Suite (Passenger Stateroom):  This luxury suite is
habitually assigned to high passengers.  It is decorated in a stark
post-Civil War style (transparent or translucent materials for
furniture; solid colors for walls and floor)."

CT's Adventure 13 Signal GK, page 26 (by Marc Miller, additional design
by J Andrew Keith) discussing the layout of the Ad Astra, a 600 ton,
Type M, Subsidized Liner "a standard design widely available within the
Imperium."

Travellers Digest also had some nice bits of information on furniture in
the article about the Imperial Palace, however there  are not going to
be a lot of Iridium Thrones on most planets so I suspect these bits are
less usefull in most contexts.

Furniture appears in some of the illustrations in Traveller material but
always in a supporting role.  Unfortunately most of the art in Traveller
is of people, spaceships, and guns, but not of furniture, for some odd
reason.

Maybe BITS would do 101 Pieces of Furniture, so we could discover what
furniture of the Third Imperium is really like ?	:)

So we know what the height of fashion circa 650 or 700 was.  The fact
that this style is still used in a suite "habitually assigned to high
passengers" suggests that such styles still have some popularity and/or
implications of social standing in Milieu 1100 (the adventure is set in
1110).  The Third Imperium is a more conservative culture than our own
with a lower rate of technological advancement so it might not be
unreasonable to believe that their Interior Design and Architectural
styles might also be conservative.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 02:39:39 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re:  Sophontophagism  (was Re: Brocolli)

"Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com> wrote

>  oh, the heck with it! They ain't human so it don't count!

You must be related to those people in Hard Times who ate Droyne.

Since Droyne fly they must taste like chicken, right ?

People, the other white meat - Early Vilani Saying

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 98 12:40:56 +0000
From: David Scott <Snail@dircon.co.uk>
Subject: Robots as Engineers

>1) Lets say that a small group of Characters is attempting to use a 
>Starship and the group is down a required Engineer.  If they go out to buy 
>a Robot to 'fill in', would one Robot be enough or would two (because 
>robots are not the swiftest thingies about) be a more realistic answer?

After taking a look at 101 Robots, book 8 and Starship operators manual...

One would be enough. The tasks for the engineer require Engineering & 
Edu. You also don't want to be telling it what to do all of the time as 
that's why you need it, so it needs low Autonomous logic & Full Command. 
It can't have an Int below 5 or it needs supervision.

TL12 Engineering Robot (Can't do anything else)

               CPU  Para Syn  Stor  Cr
Low Aut        15   10   1    25    7000 +2Dex
Full Command    3   --   --    5    5000 +2Int (needed to cheaply 
increase Int)
Engineer-4     16   --   --   --    1600 Expert level

Totals         35   10   1    30   13600
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -----
Brain          No.  Vol  Wt    Cr        Int  Edu
Linear CPU     24   4.8  2.4    12000    +1
Parallel CPU   10   5.0  1.0   100000    +2
Synaptic CPU    1   0.1  0.1    50000    +0

Storage, Std   50  25.0  5.0    12500         +5 (Increased to give Int 5)

Logic& Progs                    13600
Totals             34.9L 8.5Kg 188100
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -----
                         KW    Vol     Wt    Cr
Brain                    1    34.9     8.5   188100
Basic Sensor Package     4             3.0     1700
+Passive IR              1             1.0      200 Can see hot spots
Power interface          1             0.5      100 Can plug in to 
recharge
Brain Interface          1             1.0     1200 Can interface with 
ship
2xLight tentacles        5            20.0     1500 +4dex/+3str
Light Grav Module        1     3.0     2.0    30000 Dex=F
Batteries             1000     1.0     1.0      850 enough for 70 hours 
(Megatraveller)
Chassis                  -    40.0     4.0     5000 Box Config str2

Totals                        40.0L    31Kg  128650 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -----
So a robot with a UPP of 8Fx55x, Engineering-4, Cr128650, total volume 80 
Litres, Weight of 31 kg, 70 hours endurance will do. Rental would be 
Cr124 per week (based on 20 year payback) and a hefty deposit. 
(Disclaimer:as this was done quickly there might be errors).

Is it legal to only have a robot Engineer?

It's only got 1 synaptic unit, but it could go mad....

Personally I would hire an Engineer.

David

mailto:Snail@dircon.co.uk
http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~snail/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 08:23:17 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: MegaTraveller Book Order

In a message dated 98-01-31 20:51:57 EST, you write:

<< 
 I am hoping that you still have a few of each left, and not just one or
 two.  If so, I'd be interested in the Rebellion Sourcebook, as well as
 Knightfall and COACC.
 
 What are your shipping charges to Canada?
 
  >>
I have at least two of each left.

Shipping to Canada is $5 for the whole order.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 08:58:48 -0600
From: David Reed <david@techrefuge.com>
Subject: Jumpwar!  Launch the TL9 fighters/jump capacitor drones...

On Sunday, February 01, 1998 14:11, Ian or Katts [SMTP:ianw@orac.net.au] 
wrote:
> >From: David Reed <david@techrefuge.com>
> >IMO, jump fuel is just that: no blowing bubbles, no matter insertion, no 
> >jump atmosphere, no silly crap like that.  Since grav technology seems 
to
> >keep pace with jump, it makes much more sense to use a jump drive that 
is
> >1) high speed energy converter, 2) mostly dedicated capacitors, 3) not 
used
> >to do anything but convert pure H into e=mc^2, and then 4) use all that
> >energy to create a highly focussed quasi-gravitic field to rip a hole in 
> >the weak fabric of interplanetary space into j-space, where we can tool
> >along in a different quantum level before returning to n-space.
[snip]
> Yeah. Can I use this high-speed energy converter and capacitors to power
> other ship systems ? If it just energy, why not ? Converting 280 cubic
> meters of H into energy in one hour should allow a *big* battery of fast
> firing weapons.

Absolutely!!!  You use a similar system EVERY TIME you fire your 150Mj 
triple laser turret, just on a smaller scale: same technology included at 
NO extra cost.  No reason not to use up all of your jump fuel...  (Jump 
drives are just optimized to discharge through a different system, and 
isolated from the rest of the ship's systems "just in case," but should 
you, with your manly Engineering-5, want to re-wire the ship, who am I to 
stop you?  The other players on the other hand may take a dim view of 
becoming the next members of the Bundy family...)

My next question, dear player, is now that you've blasted two out of three 
bogies rather handily with all that extra juice, assuming that you don't 
yet resemble the Colonel's extra crispy, and drained all of your jump fuel 
(assuming you had the foresight - aren't psionics wonderful? - to begin 
running the thing up a couple of hours in advance of the firefight to 
charge the capacitors - it's not instantaneous, you know), where in 
Grandfather's name are you going to run to?

No jump, no peace.  Heh.

*BOOM*

> Also, it isnt more difficult to make jump inside a gravity well. It's 
just
> more difficult to get out the other side in n pieces, where n is a 
rational
> number.

I don't see this as necessarily contradictory...  The end result is the 
same: don't jump near Jupiter!  Opinions vary, even on the current 
postulate of quantum teleportation (another explanation for jump?).  As 
long as the perceivable end result are identical in games terms, I care 
even less than Nietzsche...

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
David Reed
webmaster@techrefuge.com                   The doorway to all freedoms
713.549.6931                               is framed with muskets ....

"Surely truth leads to virtue, and virtue leads to paradise." -Bukhari

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 08:17:19 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

On Fri, 30 Jan 1998, Richard A. Flores wrote:
 
> Projectile ejection etc.
> 
> Does anyone know where I could get a clear shield for my cyberspace
> interface device?
> 
> 

There _is_ a product called SafeSkins, which are clear plastic overlays
for keybords. We used them in the lab to keep various liquids out of the
keyboards; I see no reason they wouldn't work for various potables.

A bent piece of lexan works for monitors.

You know, I'd better set myself up as a distributor...either for that
stuff or keyboards and monitors...what with the variety of stuff spraying
onto systems around here, I'll bet that collectively we're going through a
bunch of keyboards and monitors every week;-) 

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 08:25:10 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@m9.sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Jump Drive / Space / Time

In my game, I have always explained is thusly:

Welp, you only had the power for a jump-1, but you still went 36 
parsecs bacause when your Jdrive (folded, pinched, tore) space time, 
there was a (power spike/brown out if the engineer messed up, local 
gravmetric distortion/bad flaw in the grid charging program if the 
nav messed up) which shunted you lower into jump space then you 
expected. If the engineer was the one, I usally have some minor 
damage occur to the Jdrive. I have also been knowen to have the grid 
short out during the evolution down to jump space.. but that was a 
really nasty misjump roll.

Cya

> My question is not about the time taken but the distance travelled
> particlarily in a mis-jump.
> If the length of the jump is determined by the power input, are we then
> saying that in a mis-jump, more power was inadvertently applied to
> create a longer than maximum jump 6 (if that is what the random role(s)
> generate).
> Also, how could/would we generate the extra power suggested above, when
> tech only allows j6. I can justify the random direction.
> 
> Jim
> 
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com           http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

Thought for the day:
    Communist (n): one who has given up all hope
    of becoming a Capitalist.

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 19:21:27 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: CORE announces Infini-V

BITS/CORE now has Rob Prior's Infini-V available for the Macintosh platform.

Infini-V implements the Vehicle Design System from the Central Supply
Catalog as an easy to use computer program. Just pick and choose from the
menus and design your vehicles!

Anyone in Europe should contact myself for details on obtaining a copy with
the save/print/export functions enabled. Rob remains the contact for North
America. Negotiations are ongoing for the possibility of payment through a
card.

A demonstration copy is available from Rob's website, and there will be a
European site RSN (as soon as I finish coding it).

At present Infini-V is only available on the Mac, but Rob is looking into
porting it to the PC. We have had some reports of success running it on PCs
with a Mac Emulator(*).

Dom

(*) let us know if you're doing this , as we'd be interested in finding out
how good it is..

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 18:45:23 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Brocolli - was +D-D Discussion (renamed)

"Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> wrote:

>OBTW, someone lurking over my shoulder has asked, "Wouldn't that be
>cannibalism?"
>I tried to explain why it wouldn't be, but I need someone else to validate
>what I said, and I have been told that I can't say what I said because then
>you would just say yes to get me out of trouble.
>
>Would someone on the list explain why it wouldn't be.

It isn't cannibalism because you aren't a Hresh or a K'kree (*). It
probably *is* murder of a sentient under Imperial Law though.

(*) I'm assuming you don't look like an overgrown bush or a centaur here... ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 18:26:44 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Brocolli - was +D-D Discussion (renamed)

 "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> wrote:

>SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> wrote:
>>Thinking again, if the Hresh ever want to start a jihad against the K'Kree
>>does anyone want to help?
>Only if I can export the carcasses!  (Yummm, tastes like beef.  No, it
>tastes like chicken.  Beef.  Chicken.  Beef!  Chicken!!)

We've got to be carefully about this. The K'Kree alien module describes the
ships as enormous saucer-like things... have you seen 'Independence Day',
and was that an atmospheric PA in action?

Not to mention they have nuclear dampers.

But that means all we need is a souped up Mac Powerbook and Jeff Goldblum
to win the Jihad ;-)

And if we do that you can export cooked K'Kree..

Dom

PS

At EuroGenCon we ran a tournament scenario called 'White Dwarf' which
involved an AHL class cruiser called the 'Tactical Withdrawl' (with a crew
of 6 thanks to high automation ;-) ), several famous characters (Captain
Jane, Rimmer, the Cat, Felix, Hayes....) and a mission which involved
setting up a McBurger franchise on a K'Kree world.. bit of a scream that
was.

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:39:24 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Some Jump rules; well guidelines anyway (very long)

Here I go , Jumping in where angels fear to tread. The following is a wrtie
up (as breif as possible) of how I operate Jump drives in My Campaign (tm).
It is NOT meant to reflect canon (other than in my own campaign universe)
nor is it represented as The Only True Way. It is merely for informational
purposes, in the event that anyone sees an idea or 2 that they wish to
incorperate in their own campaign, please feel free. It Does Not attempt to
explain WHY Jump works, but, merely, the mechanics I use during game play.

Please keep in mind that I use the TASK SYSTEM FROM THE TRAVELLER REF SCREEN

1) The Jump Navigator, in conjunction with the Sensor Operator, determines
an entry point thet has a direct, unobscured, route to the Target Star.

a)   Unobscured means that there is, along the direct route, no Gravity Well
GREATER than the ship itself within 10 diameters (of the intruding gravity
well), and preferably within 100 diameters ( of the intruding gravity well).

b)   Each intruding gravity well within 100 dia. ( a determination of the
Ref at the time the checks are made)adds a plus one to the chance of a
misjump.

c) An intruding gravity well within 10 dia. will cause the ship to
percipitate out of Jump at that point, the ship's Jump fuel will have been
used to enter jump and will be gone.
Notes: All of this is determined by a series of Navigation and Sensor Ops
Task Rolls:

Navigation Task Roll to Determine Jump Route: (Uncertain Task (1D)) (time
variable)
(Intelligence+Navigation) - Computer Rating < System Information(*)

(*) System Information  Difficulty
Assume a STAGGERING (4D) difficulty modified as follows:
- - 1D for Scout Service Info package
- - 1D for successful Sensor Ops Roll (see below)
+ 1D for failed Sensor Ops Roll (see below)
- - 1D if previously visited Start System

Sensor Op Task Roll the Scan Jump Route: (Uncertain Task (1D)) (time
variable)
(Education+Sensors) +/- Sensor Rating DM(*) < System Information

Sensor Rating DM :

Sensor Rating                      DM
1-2                                          +2
3-4                                          +1
5-6                                           0
7-8                                          -1
9-10                                        -2
11-12                                      -3
13-14                                      -4
15-16                                      -5

Ref sets the time spent for each task. Players can re-rol as many times as
they like, spending the appropriate amount of time. (Note2: I usually have a
Captain start to get figety if a Navigator or Sensor Ops re-rolls TOO many
times, the competence level of the PC comes into question).

2) Since stars do not really sit in the exact center of a "hex", dispite
mapping conventions, it is possible to "pass" through an "occupied" map hex.

a) Optional: For each occupied hex passed through, the Ref can roll for the
possibity of a mis-Jump.

3) Objects in the target system may cause the ship to percipitate from Jump
early.

a) If the object is greater than that of the ship.

b) If the object is within 10 dia. (it's size) of the course of the ship.

Note: I usually handle this as a Refs option and haven't written any random
rules yet.

3) Objects with a smaller gravity well than the ship are simply "blown"
aside by the shockwave of the ship's exit from Jump.

4) Running Jumps

a) All of the above applies, additionally...

b) The ship must be running in the general direction of the intended Jump.

c) It will exit travelling in the general direction of the inner system of
the target star.Picture a cone starting at the exit point with the target
star at it's center.

d) If a shi percipitates out early due to an obstruction The object will be
within a cone in FRONT of the ship measureing 10 dia. (of the object) "out"
from the point of entry and 20 dia. across, at it's widest point.

Note: roll a D6 2-4 indecated above, below, left or right of the ships
course, a 1 or 6 indecate it's directly on the ship's heading.

e) The ship will retain the same velocity as it entered Jump.

Obviously these are not complete rules. I use them as guide lines with a
liberal amount of "Ref's Option" thrown in to create the amount of
excitement I want at that time.

System Data is valuable in My Campaign(tm), the more the better. I auction
off IISS data packs at various times and locations, containing newly
discovered system information to Traders and Corperations. These packs also
contain information on the contents of the system.

It's also why Scouts and Freetraders are concidered a bit on the crazy side,
in my games. Company men tend to stick to the safe, mapped systems.

Freetraders are encouraged to register their system data with the IISS. This
is usually in the form of credits or, if the data is on a totally unexplored
system, the Traders can "lay a claim" to the data. This will keep it form
the public domain for a period set by the Trader in question, up to 2 years.
The information will be available to the IISS and the ISN. I see this as a
way of "leveling the playing feild" between the Freetraders and the Corps. A
rich trading world found and registered in this way is a Freetrader's dream.
Either from the profits of their own trade or byt sale of the informtion to
one of the Corps.

Any way, there it is, sorry for the length of the post. I hope somebody sees
something useful in their own
campaigns.

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #85
*********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Sunday, February 1 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 086



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Infini-V for Windows
Jump Capacitors (CT)
Jump "fuel" (CT)
re: has ANYONE been paid?
Software and Choice
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Decompression
Re: Hit location
Re: Critical Hits and +D-D
Re: TL9 Slow Freighter and Jump Drive Debate
Re:  [TTL] Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation
the magic jump reactor model (jump fuel for power)
Re: Cool Ship Minis
Re: Software and Choice
Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation
Publish this! (was RE: Hit location)
THUDDD-8 Postmortem

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 98 19:52 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

In-Reply-To: <01bd2e9e$bd8d33a0$LocalHost@letterworks>

Michael,

[re: bumping into gravity wells en route through jumpspace]

> In a bit of rebuttle, I totally agree with this rule. It's near the way I
> currently play Jump in my own campaign. Logically any gravity well should be
> the same as another to Jump drives and should act on them accordingly. This

Well, yes and no. Yes, a gravity well is a gravity well is a gravity well, but 
canonically it's only end conditions that have been considered - it matters if 
you're in a well when you go in, or come out, but j/space "goes around" 
anything along the way.

Let's say there are three systems:

A - B - C

A ship jumps from A to C, spending 7 days in jump. What happens about system 
B? Do you appear there instead? Do you have to 'dodge' it in j/space (another 
Astrogation roll)? If so, when? Is a jump from A-B, or B-C, easier than A-C 
(it should be)? Is jump to a system you know little about harder (it should 
be)?

Could you communicate with a ship in jumpspace, or force it to leave where you 
wanted it to (pirates?) with artificial gravity?

As a straight SF idea, I have no problem with this idea, but IMHO it ain't 
Traveller.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 98 19:52 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Infini-V for Windows

In-Reply-To: <fc.00003c54004e0ad53b9aca00cf51cd31.b822@nybe.on.ca>

Rob,

> I have probably located an experienced programmer to port Infini-V(1) to
> Windows. One decision factor for him will be how many people would
> actually pay their shareware fees.  Most of you have heard of Infini-V
> (called CSC in an earlier beta version) by now.  Would you pay for a
> Windows version?

Yes.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 12:31:32 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Jump Capacitors (CT)

>> 3)	The capacitors of a jump drive held a comparatively small charge

  The charge held by the Jump drives integral capacitors is either too
large or too small, depending on what you're comparing it to.

  Compared to standard capacitors used in other equipment (vehicles,
weapons, robots) the stored energy densities are vastly too high, and
costs are ridiculously low.

 - per J-drive value, 0.5% of the ship is capacitors. E.G., 100 DT Scout
(J-2), has 1 Dt caps built-in.

 - at turn length of 1200 seconds, output 250 MW per EP, the storage of
36 EP's equals 10.8 million (1.08 x 10^7) MW/seconds. 

 - 1 Dt of batteries is 14000 litres; batteries range from 2.25 to 25
MW/s per litre (TL's 9-15; Striker).

 - 1 Dt of J-drive is 4 MCr, or Cr 285/litre if non-battery component
is free. TL 9-15 batteries cost Cr 375 to 10000 per litre.

  OTOH, If this is being compared to the fusion energy in the jump
"fuel" (10 Dt for the type S), then the J-capacitor has effectively
zero energy storage ability, relative to the product of fusing all
that LHyd. One ton of LHyd (in proton-proton fusion) produces about
6 x 10^11 MW/s of power, or 1.2 x 10^13 for that Scout doing a J-2.
This means about a half-million more Dt's of storage for the type S.

  Calculations are correct, hopefully?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 12:31:44 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Jump "fuel" (CT)

>> 4)	Even if all energy was applied from outside, you still needed jump
>> 	fuel to initiate the jump.

  As per all rules from CT, with the possible exception of the _Adventure_
(not rules book) Annic Nova. Specified in High Guard.

  Interestingly, short of channelling incoming damage into your black
globe (or your outgoing rocket engine into it for 100% power generating
efficiency!) there's no way to use your Jump-drive "reactor" version to
bootstrap itself into providing power to run itself. So, no Power Plant
operating to run Jump-drive means you can't use the presumed super Jump
reactor. However, it could require a certain power flow to run, and use
LHyd (why only LHyd?) as coolant.

  To avoid technological side effects, it would be best to assume that
both the super-capacitors and the super reactors are artifacts of the
early game design, and whose logical conclusions were not foreseen at
the time. Normal power plants can't fill those batteries very fast -
18 turns for a Scout doing a J-2, rather than the canonical one turn.

  Someone suggested a while ago that Annic Nova was canonical in their
campaign for possessing an artifact (artificial or natural) that gave
it the necessary "jump-mass". This could also explain some Ancients
jump-drives (as could small pocket universes full of L-Hyd - these may
very well not count against the 10% Jump entry mass). Very neat idea.

        Steven Hudson

  

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 98 14:05:10 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: re: has ANYONE been paid?

Not commenting on IG specifics, because I don't know any, but I have a
question...

On 02/01/98 at 02:12 AM,  "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com> said:

>Whitman about submitting articles to JTAS, he wrote back and I submitted
>them, as did my friend an frequent co-author Aaron Link.  I then asked if
>my articles had arrived and heard nothing more from Ken Whitman (ever
>again).  

<snip>

>Then, JTAS # 25 came out.  My friend Aaron's article appeared in it.
He received no contract and was not paid.

I realize that it is common practice to send manuscripts to publishers "on
spec", but how can they print them without a signed contract?  Until the
author signs a contract, doesn't he still own the copywrite, wouldn't
publishing without a signed contract be a direct violation of law? 
Wouldn't it be both a civil and criminal offense? 


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 98 13:49:27 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Software and Choice

On 01/31/98 at 11:05 PM,  David Reed <david@techrefuge.com> said:

>Andrew thoughtfully added:
>> OTOH, I use W95 and refuse to touch W3.x with a 10' (sorry, 3.048m) pole. 
>> My preference for the s/w would be:
>>
>> 1. Designed for W95
>> 2. Designed for W3.x, but will run under W95

>These are acceptable to me (as I use NT4 almost exclusively), but please 
>take care what shortcuts are used: some of them flake NT rather nastily 
>(okay, so's it's not crash-proof, yet).  

I've had my say about this subject in the past, and won't rehash things,
but I find it interesting that those who use Windows 95/NT prefer that
programs be designed exclusively for, and work only on, their operating
systems.  That may not be *your* conscious goal, but I strongly suspect it
is MicroSoft's, and it would be the effect if you have your way. 

There are techniques and programming languages that allow, even make for
easy, cross-platform compatibility.  Just as I see "no one true path" to
Traveller, I don't recognize and "illuminated" operating system. Choice,
ladies and gentlemen, provide for personal choice.

>> 3. Designed for DOS, but will run under W3.x and W95
>> 4. DOS only
>> 5. Something else

>Go this route and I can't/won't buy it: it will most likely not run under 
>NT.  ;-\  And I will cry...

Go the exclusive Win95/NT route and I won't/can't *run* it, but it won't
make me cry. As per Pink Floyd, "it's just another brick in the wall."

Ob Traveller, I think I see why Marc and many of our Traveller compatriots
are comfortable with the oligarcy that is the Imperium. They appear to
support virtual, if not de facto, monopolies in the real world.  And M0's
"Expansion Process" *does* like the business plan for a certain
corporation, I won't mention.  ;->

Eris,
    at least my heresy is consistent ;->
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 15:00:00 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Deadeye wrote:

[snip]
>This is valid.  It would also put Earth within the 100 diam limit.
>(Sol=1 million mile diam, Earth @ 93 million miles radius.) There will
>not be a whole lot of ships precipitating out near worlds in the
>habitable zone.
[snip]
>b)TrafCon- having everybody and their brother jumping at random points
>insystem could be a big hazard.  What if SS Bulkhauler is transiting the
>emerging ships exit point when it precipitates?  Controlled systems will
>have definate spaces set aside for jump/precipitation, with certain
>EXACT corridors defined for incoming/outgoing ships, and arrivals from
>nearby origin worlds.  Since there is no FTL comm, you can't tell
>control of your intentions to "arrive here at this time," so the next
>best thing is having arrival windows - preprogrammed slots and quadrants
>for your origin world.  Of course you could drop in waaaaay outsystem,
>but that wastes valuable time and money.

I refer you to the previous paragraph I quoted and remind you that even if
they all come in on the disk, this still gives you over a billion km of
arrival zone!  What are the odds?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:16:01 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Decompression

From: Glenn Grant <neo@total.net>


>Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK sez,
>
>><<Glenn Grant wrote:
>>The fun thing with retractable claws, of course, is when you roll a
>>Spectacular Failure and they get stuck, extended.
>>
>>Eeeeyew. What if you're inside a vac suit when you do this?
>
>If you use your claws while inside a vac suit, you are instantly nominated
>for a Darwin Award. :)

You know the only bad part about receiving the Darwin Award in this manner
is that you'll have to accept it posthumously.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 14:52:05 -0600
From: "Chris Miller" <ironstar@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Hit location

>> 1) a body outline, subdivided into small regions
>    (maybe 20 regoins)
>
> 2) transparent overlays for shots at each range band.
This is
>a wonderful system I think, one that any RPG could benefit
>by.  The sales clerk said combat is swift in this system.
>
>I didn't want to buy a rules book just for a body outline and
>range-probability overlays -- but the idea is brilliant.
>
>Anyone else see this system before?

- ---------> This is "Millenium's End" from Chameleon Eclectic, and I bought
it precisely because of the system you mention. Picked it up at Origins in
Fort Worth (1994?) after talking to the guys who wrote it. My goup loved the
idea, but we never really used it in a campaign, just some brief one-shots.
The game has recently come out in a 2nd ed (haven't seen it). They also had
a handy book for hardware nuts (like my guys) called "Ultramodern Firearms"
which gave real-world stats on a whole lotta guns, with game-specific rules
in the back. I'm sure they have a website, I'll just have to find it...

Chris Miller

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 14:22:49 -0600
From: "Chris Miller" <ironstar@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Critical Hits and +D-D

>     I used to hate this for TNE/Twilight 2k also....but I have found what
I
>believe to have been on omission in the combat rules.  In T:2000 (1st ed)
the
>damage done by a weapon was 4*the dam rating of the weapon + 4d6 (at close
>range)  At medium range it was 3*Dam +3d6, and so on down the line.  This
gave
>an M-16 (Dam rating of 2) the abilitiy to cause 8+4d6 at close range (12-40
>pts, avg 22) PER SHOT, while an average character had only 30 pts to absorb
>damage with (in the chest).  I believe this system was intended for T:2k
(2nd)
>as well as TNE, but was accidently left out (The combat rules for TNE are
>almost word-for-word the rules in T:2k (2nd) ).  If nothing else, it
certainly
>works as an optional rule for those still using TNE...and maybe someone who
>worked on the game can confirm my hypothesis

- ---------> Well, I'm not too sure it was "left out" as in 1st ed T2000, each
shot represented approx 3 real bullets being fired, which is why the ammo
#'s of those guns look so weird. In 2nd ed, they went with an actual 1 to 1
ratio. If this change works for you however, don't let this stop you. Also,
is it really a problem that your characters are too resistant to damage? I
know pistols aren't too threatening under these rules, but with all the
autofire flying around, it usually doesn't take too long to get hurt. There
are the various aimed shots and things to use as well. Don't know, just that
my group played a long 1st ed, a long 2nd ed, and a moderate amount of TNE
and I never thought they were too tough. The instant kill rules for NPC's
also made them pretty frangible too.

Chris Miller

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 13:50:22 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: TL9 Slow Freighter and Jump Drive Debate

>Note that this ship does not react well to newfangled ideas like having to
>match angular velocities with target systems (seriously ... have people
>seen what requiring 1 gee for n hours is going to do to TL9 starfaring ?).

  So what? At least it simplifies delivering high V projectiles to the
target, as you can now specifically get your run-up before jumping. A
great way to deploy KKM's to your next Pearl Harbour... 
        :)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:09:54 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re:  [TTL] Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation

>sports that won't come up very often and deal with Pop III stars. 
Actually, the normal stars are "Population I" (they were named before
anyone understood the order of formation.)

>Bruce, are you saying that, on average, there is a 50km/s difference
>between nearby stars?  Or are you saying that stars distribute normally
>around 50km/s, and if so with what variance?
I'm pretty sure that the sun's velocity relative to the local standard
of rest (a hypothetical average going around the galaxy) is on the
order of 50 km/s. This might be somewhat higher than average, but not
too much. So star velocities should be distributed around zero with
a variance of (say) 30km/s.
I'm writing at home so I can't look this up, but
it jibes with my memory of the average motion of my favourite star
cluster, the Hyades (motion in the plane of the sky is 0.1 arcsec
per year at 50 parsecs = 25 km/s; radial velocity is of the same order.)
You can certainly make the average velocity of stars zero (and probably
should), measuring it with respect to the LSR; if you want to measure
with respect to the center of the galaxy the average is about 500 km/s,
with a variance of 50 km/s.

>I was hoping that *most* stars within a few parsecs of each other would
>have rather low relative motions.
Probably not true, unless they're part of a cluster - most stars 
have drifted far away from the ones they formed with.

>What I want to do is include a number (Vr) with the UPP for each system
>that is an *abstract* representation it's relative motion to some fixed
>point (a distant pulsar should work).  
Or the local standard of rest.
>Ships jumping would have to perform
>a "burn" changing their delta-V by the difference in this number between
>systems A to B. (I know a heading and velocity are really needed, but I
>want to abstract that for simplicity.)

>After subtracting the Vr of A from B the resulting difference would be
>the magnitude of the burn, in km/s and the sign would be the direction
>My first thought on this was 4d6-4 (min:0, avg:10, max:20) for each star,
>but this was just a SWAG.  It also doesn't handle sports with very high
>relative motions.  I'd like to be able to generate one of those
>*rarely*...perhaps if a 0 comes up on the roll, reroll is done using a
>1d100.

>This jibes with Charles and Hal's posts, but if I'm not misreading
>Bruce's post is *way* too low. What about it Bruce?
Maybe (4d6-14)*5 km/s?

>[measuring velocity]
>I think I'll go with a Difficult Task with normal sensors, Routine with
>Science-grade sensors.
Something I forgot about is that while it's easy to measure the
motion towards or away from you (through doppler shifts) measuring 
the motion in the plane of the sky (proper motion) is harder - 
though not impossible for nearby stars with big science-grade sensors.
Maybe make it Formidable for non-science sensors, +1 DM for sensors
below PEMS-13.

>Now, about Task duration...30 minutes sound about right?
Make it a couple of hours , I think - with a decent-sized sensor
(resolution of a few milliarcsecond, astrometric accuracy a few 
microarcseconds) you still need a couple of hours to measure the
proper motion. 

>[measuring distances]
>How fast would the area of
>uncertainty collapse, that is..if you have an uncertainty of a few
>hundred AU with a one star sighting, what uncertainty will you have with
>a two, three, four, n star sighting?
It's the second sighting that nails it. If you move back-and-forth over
1/10 AU inside a single system to get a baseline you get a distance
error to the target system about 20 AU for a PEMS-14ish sensor.

If you sight from two different stars, the error goes down to about
a few thousand kilometers. More sightings are irrelevant.

>The ship is in orbit around Alpha-3 and wants to match orbital velocity
>with Alpha-7, ignoring how the ship gets from planet to planet, the
>delta-V needed is simply the difference in orbital velocity, correct?
On the average (depends on where in the star's orbit it is.) Almost
all these velocities are negligible for Traveller ships, of course - 
1 hour at 1 G is 36 km/s. One can recognize evidence of Eris'
Stutterwarp Heresy that he even asks these questions - the Inquisition
will be along shortly.

(Though it's an interesting issue for 2300 AD ships with stutterwarp
but low delta-V - they have to make up the velocity difference through
clever maneuvering around gravity wells, which is probably fairly
time-consuming.)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:21:33 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: the magic jump reactor model (jump fuel for power)

If one assumes jump drives burn fuel for power - with some special high outpu
low fuel efficiency reactor - the problem is it has to be *incredibly* powerful
per unit mass (and even per unit of fuel); if we require the reactor to 
produce all the power in an hour, it has to be significantly more
powerful than filling the *whole ship* full of conventional reactors, 
even at TL15 or 16 - otherwise someone, somewhere, will build a ship using
conventional reactors (even just for Jump-1) and change the face of the universe.
Once you make it that much more efficient, there will always be some
application it's tempting for - just burning a few percent of the ship's
mass worth of fuel through one of these things should produce more power
(admittedly only for a hour) than the main power plant, which would be very
nice for combat situations. You really, really, really have to labour to 
make the jump power model work in a way that never makes it useful for anything
else...

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:52:55 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Cool Ship Minis

Hey, 

I found out that the Starblazers minis are 1:4600. Not a bad guess
on my part from pictures on the web (I said ~1:5000 :-)

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 16:46:11 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Software and Choice

Eris,
I use Win95. That stated and out of the way let's move on to why the
gentleman (I forget his name and don't have my DB here)inquetion should use
this platform for his project. The original post, IIRC, was a question about
options to include in a SCHOOL PROJECT (caps for emphisis). As such, and if
his intentions are to find employment in the computer field IN TODAYS MARKET
PLACE, he should probably use either Win95 or NT as the platform for which
to write the program. Let's face it in the Real World (tm) this is the
Dominate platforms (no matter what we would like it to be). As a School
Project, I feel it is a disservice to the gentleman in question to urge him
to use a platform that is not in current, widespread commercial and
industrial use, as a learning tool.

On the side of personal preference... My favorite was always the Atari ST
system, but work and a sever lack of support forced me into the IBM PC,
first in DOS then Win3.x and now into Win95/NT.  My programing skills (alas
long unused) were in Atari GWBasic then in Turbo Pascal on the PC. Now I,
barely scrape by with some rather crude Excel spread sheet work, so I would
PREFER he write the program for another system, but if he is attempting to
learn skills valid for todays market place he should go with the Evil Empire
and the latest version of that (even though it will, with Emporer Gates I
marketing approach, be outdated by the time he leaves school).

Obviously other systems are still in use, but he will most likely be
applying for a job using some version of Win95/NT, if todays market is any
indecation, and a project written for either of these formats will have the
most value to HIM. It not a matter of supporting MS's monopoly by choioce,
but learning Basket Weaving 101 in an attempt to get a job in Astrophysics
just isn't the best route to a goal.

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com
- -----Original Message-----
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pen.net>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Sunday, February 01, 1998 4:13 PM
Subject: Software and Choice


<Snippage>
>I've had my say about this subject in the past, and won't rehash things,
>but I find it interesting that those who use Windows 95/NT prefer that
>programs be designed exclusively for, and work only on, their operating
>systems.  That may not be *your* conscious goal, but I strongly suspect it
>is MicroSoft's, and it would be the effect if you have your way.
>
>There are techniques and programming languages that allow, even make for
>easy, cross-platform compatibility.  Just as I see "no one true path" to
>Traveller, I don't recognize and "illuminated" operating system. Choice,
>ladies and gentlemen, provide for personal choice.
>>Go this route and I can't/won't buy it: it will most likely not run under
>>NT.  ;-\  And I will cry...
<Snipped again
>Go the exclusive> Win95/NT route and I won't/can't *run* it, but it won't
>make me cry. As per Pink Floyd, "it's just another brick in the wall."
>
>Ob Traveller, I think I see why Marc and many of our Traveller compatriots
>are comfortable with the oligarcy that is the Imperium. They appear to
>support virtual, if not de facto, monopolies in the real world.  And M0's
>"Expansion Process" *does* like the business plan for a certain
>corporation, I won't mention.  ;->
>
>Eris,
>    at least my heresy is consistent ;->
>--
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 16:23:04 -0500
From: Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com>
Subject: Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation

At 3:04 PM -0500 1/31/98, Eris Reddoch wrote:
>What I want to do is include a number (Vr) with the UPP for each system
>that is an *abstract* representation it's relative motion to some fixed
>point (a distant pulsar should work).  Ships jumping would have to perform
>a "burn" changing their delta-V by the difference in this number between
>systems A to B. (I know a heading and velocity are really needed, but I
>want to abstract that for simplicity.)

The only problem with this is that the motion of stars relative to
each other is a vector quantity with three values: x, y, and z.  This
makes a huge difference since two stars moving at the same speed in
opposite directions, have a relative speed twice their speed.  This
is a problem no matter what you use as your reference point.

Bolie IV


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 17:13:45 -0600
From: David Reed <david@techrefuge.com>
Subject: Publish this! (was RE: Hit location)

On Saturday, January 31, 1998 14:52, Chris Miller 
[SMTP:ironstar@swbell.net] wrote:
> ---------> This is "Millenium's End" from Chameleon Eclectic, and I bought
> it precisely because of the system you mention. Picked it up at Origins in
> Fort Worth (1994?) after talking to the guys who wrote it. My goup loved the
> idea, but we never really used it in a campaign, just some brief one-shots.
> The game has recently come out in a 2nd ed (haven't seen it). They also had
> a handy book for hardware nuts (like my guys) called "Ultramodern Firearms"
> which gave real-world stats on a whole lotta guns, with game-specific rules
> in the back. I'm sure they have a website, I'll just have to find it...

Cumbersome system - as I indicated in a few private notes, and distracting 
if you're anal retentive about accurate depictions of the target - like me. 
 2nd ed. Millenium's End has been out with quite a few supplements for 
awhile besides UF, but they're production schedule is *worse* than IG's 
(yes, it's true).  But maybe I'm bitter - the publisher and I had serious 
differences in style and content about the 2nd ed. of the operatives 
handbook, and we mutually tore up our working contract a year ago: after 
two years of correspondence and work.  *big sigh*  Hence, there is still no 
2nd ed. of the handbook for Millennium's End.  If there ever is, and any of 
my stuff's in it, I flame him in court, and Texas courts are *very* lenient 
in deceptive trade practices suits.  Needless to say, I'm very sympathetic 
with you adventurous T4 writers.  Wish there were something that I could do 
to help out.  How much antimatter would cause SoCal to...?  Just kidding, 
really!


While I'm thinking about it, would one of the other groups, BITS/CORE/SJG 
be interested in publishing an "Official Scouts Handbook"?  Got lots and 
lots of material just waiting to...  Whoever in the back row muttered 
something about T$R and AD&D needs to siddown and shaddup.  ;-)  In the 
spirit of Traveller the URL is www.blackeagle.com.

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
David Reed
webmaster@techrefuge.com                   The doorway to all freedoms
713.549.6931                               is framed with muskets ....

"Surely truth leads to virtue, and virtue leads to paradise." -Bukhari

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 17:29:02 -0600
From: "Steven Bonneville" <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
Subject: THUDDD-8 Postmortem

First off, I'd like to congratulate Brian Songy on his winning design, the
_Kah Ryn'soo_ subsidized merchant.  Nice work!  I'd also like to thank the
judges for choosing my ship as the second place winner overall and to tie
for first in the "Usability" category.  I'm glad you liked it.

I initially decided that a subsidized merchant should be designed for the
route it serves, and encouraged by the THUDDD-8 specification, I looked at
the economics of hauling speculative goods on the route.  As it turns out,
some worlds are cheap sources of goods in demand everywhere (Khula, Vland)
and some are expensive sources of goods few want (Uushiish Uun).  Worse, 
the worlds like Uushiish Uun don't even generate much freight traffic.  So
much of the time the ship will be either fairly full or quite empty.

So I looked at the route.  It turned out that besides the two jump-2 loops
mentioned in the specification, there was also a jump-3 circuit which 
connected all six worlds before returning to the point of origin.  It also
had the great advantage of allowing an extremely profitable run from Khula
to Tauri.  Furthermore, all six worlds were still visited.  Instead of
skipping worlds altogether, the jump-3 drive allowed me to visit them in
a different order.  I also realized that most competition ships would use
the minimum of jump-2, and in the interest of a little variety and being
a bit different, I went with the jump-3 drive.

After that, everything else came together.  I used QSDS because I hate the
endless pointless noodling with numbers the other design systems have; why
should making a hull be so hard?  I only used "bighulls.txt" because the
final design was a bit over a ton short of room, and using a tech-12 hull
fixed that problem.  At least one laser was required since I wanted to
carry mail; two were better, and I figured people could rearrange type of
weapon to match their own tastes.  A ship's vehicle was important for role
playing purposes.  My main indulgence was in the military-grade computer
system.  In TNE, particle accelerator hits on non-fibre optic computers
caused a computer System Reset, essentially disabling the ship.  By using
military-grade computers, the intent was to harden the ship against this 
sort of attack.  Otherwise, everything was kept stripped down, since the
use of a jump-3 drive meant the loss of about 55 tons of cargo room.

The one minor mistake I made was in not keeping the ship's operating fund 
and ship's speculative trading funds separate in the economic analysis.  
The corrected figures follow.  

REVISED ECONOMIC ANALYSIS:  (Courtesy of Zirunkariish)

Revenues are calculated based on average selling price for cargo, and
the assumption that no passengers or cargo will be carried from any of
Tauri, Guuiish, and Uushiish Uun.  Brokers are utilized, but kickbacks
are not offered.  The ship waits a week in each system, whether or not 
it will probably leave empty.  Maintenance services can be provided on 
Khula.  Some costs assume 48 weeks regular operation; the assumption 
is that the IN pays some expenses while the ship is in their service, 
or that the ship is idle for two extra weeks.

The ship's operating fund is kept separate from the captain's fund for
speculative trading in this analysis.

Down Payment:  MCr 32.5

 ------------
OPERATING FUND:

Annual Operating Costs (4 complete transits of the VCTI route)
Crew LS:            kCr  432   (48 weeks)
Crew Salaries:      kCr  414   (12 months, kCr 34.5/month est.)
Unref. Fuel:        kCr  240.4 (48 parsecs traversed)
Annual Maint.:      kCr  162.6
Berthing:           kCr    2.4 (24 planetfalls)
LS, 240 passengers: kCr  480
                    ----------
                    kCr 1731.4 

Annual Revenue (as above)
2340 dt freight:                        kCr  2340
Mail Contract (24 planetfalls):         kCr   600  (kCr 25/world)
240 Middle Passengers:                  kCr  1920  (kCr  8/each)
                                        ---------
                                        kCr  4260

Annual Ship Payments (Gov't subsidy):   kCr  2130    (50% gross revenue)
Annual Ship Payments (Bank loan):       kCr  8127.5  (1/20 ship price)

Operating Profit (Gov't subsidy):       kCr   398.6
Operating Profit (Bank loan):           kCr -5598.9  (a loss)

The bank loan loss may look bad, but speculative trading will more than
offset these losses....
 --------------
SPECULATIVE FUND:

Annual Speculative Purchases (as above)
780 dt "B-C Hi In Cr3200" from Khula:   kCr  2496 
780 dt "B-B Hi Cr4100" from Vland:      kCr  3198
780 dt "C-8 Hi Cr4800" from Tahwer:     kCr  3744
                                        ---------
                                        kCr  9438

Annual Speculative Expenses (as above)
Broker-4 fee at Tauri:                  kCr  3088.8  (20%)
Broker-2 fee at Guuish:                 kCr   842.4  (10%)
2340 dt freight charges                 kCr  2340
                                        -----------
                                        kCr  6271.2
                                        
Annual Speculative Revenue (as above)
780 dt "B-C Hi In Cr3200" to Tauri:     kCr 15444  (kCr 19.8/ton)
780 dt "B-B Hi Cr4100" to Guuiish:      kCr  8424  (kCr 10.8/ton)
780 dt "C-8 Hi Cr4800" to Uushiish Uun: kCr  5070  (kCr  6.5/ton)
                                        ---------
                                        kCr 28938

Annual Speculative Profit:              kCr 13228.8
- ----------------
TOTALS:

Captain-owner's Profit (subsidized):    kCr 13627.4
Captain-owner's Profit (bank loan):     kCr  7629.9 
  
The Bottom Line: essentially, after all the money is accounted for,
the Imperium pays the captain-owner MCr 6 annually to keep the ship
available and on this route.  The profit figures will actually be
a bit different than this, as players earn more or less than this
average on each circuit.

  -- Steve Bonneville

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #86
*********************************

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Traveller-digest      Sunday, February 1 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 087



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

re: has ANYONE been paid?
re: has ANYONE been paid?
Re: Infini-V for Windows
Re: Jump Drive / Space / Time
RE: Canon Vargs
Re: SysGen -- system generation software
Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator
RE: Canon Vargs
Space Gamers 4sale...
MT Vampire Ships or Book 8- Robots
Re: has ANYONE been paid?
Re: missiles, low berths, and other canon...
Re: missiles, low berths, and other canon...
Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...
Re: has ANYONE been paid?
Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator
Re: Infini-V for Windows
Re: Brocolli - was +D-D Discussion (renamed)
Citizens of the TML
Re: Decompression
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Jump Drive / Space / Time
Re: Canon Vargs
Re: Software and Choice
Re: Hit location

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 15:41:58 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: re: has ANYONE been paid?

eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch) wrote:

> Not commenting on IG specifics, because I don't know any, but I have 
> a question...

> I realize that it is common practice to send manuscripts to publishers 
>  "on spec", but how can they print them without a signed contract?  
>  Until the author signs a contract, doesn't he still own the copywrite, 
>  wouldn't publishing without a signed contract be a direct violation of 
> law?  Wouldn't it be both a civil and criminal offense? 

I'm not a lawyer, but I've always thought this was true.  Does anyone else
know more about this? 


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 14:56:56 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: re: has ANYONE been paid?

At 02:05 PM 2/1/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Not commenting on IG specifics, because I don't know any, but I have a
>question...

>I realize that it is common practice to send manuscripts to publishers "on
>spec", but how can they print them without a signed contract?  Until the
>author signs a contract, doesn't he still own the copywrite, wouldn't
>publishing without a signed contract be a direct violation of law? 
>Wouldn't it be both a civil and criminal offense? 

My contract for Strike! specifies that I will be paid within thirty days of
publication.  When did JTAS #26 come out?

According to my Father-in-law, who is a lawyer, I own Strike! and could sue
them for damages.

- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 15:03:19 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Infini-V for Windows

At 07:29 PM 1/31/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I have probably located an experienced programmer to port Infini-V(1) to
>Windows. One decision factor for him will be how many people would
>actually pay their shareware fees.  Most of you have heard of Infini-V
>(called CSC in an earlier beta version) by now.  Would you pay for a
>Windows version?

I would happily pay a reasonable shareware fee for a version that worked on
3.x
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 15:08:59 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Jump Drive / Space / Time

At 01:41 AM 2/1/98 -0800, you wrote:

>My question is not about the time taken but the distance travelled
>particlarily in a mis-jump.
>If the length of the jump is determined by the power input, are we then
>saying that in a mis-jump, more power was inadvertently applied to
>create a longer than maximum jump 6 (if that is what the random role(s)
>generate).
>Also, how could/would we generate the extra power suggested above, when
>tech only allows j6. I can justify the random direction.

This reminds me of a great story.

During WWII, when the Ameicans began bombing the Japanese home islands with
the high-flying B-29 Super Fortress, crews were amazed when their ground
speed plummeted to zero at certain altitudes, then shot back up when the
crew climbed or dived as little as 200 ft.  Coming back from Japan, an
equally odd effect was observed, where the plane would accelerate far
beyond what was expected for the amount of thrust.

It wasn't until the end of the war that a meteroligist figured out what was
going on.  The pilots had discovered the jetstream, the constant "river" of
wind that wraps around the globe at high altitude.

Perhaps something similar is taking place when a ship jumps with bad fuel,
or inside a gravity well, or with poorly maintained engines.
- --
+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+-------------------------------------+
| "Some days, you just can't get rid  |
|  of a bomb!"                        |
|     -Adam West, the REAL Batman     |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 98 19:03 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: RE: Canon Vargs

Moin John H Bogan Jr,

> At one point (in the CT era), the Kforuzeng corsairs
> were building a ship that mounted a type-J
> meson gun as primary weaponry.

	"J" are you sure, thats TL:15, is'nt it. 1kdt meson gun with 225GW.

> As I don't have convenient access to my copies of
> High Guard and CT Fighting Ships, could someone
> who does give stats for the type-J and check
> the size of Imperial vessels that had J-Mesons?

	oups those numbers are MT numbers, btw are they convertible to HG ?

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 15:57:35 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: SysGen -- system generation software

In mail you write:

> Moin Christopher E. Webb,
>
>> DJGPP, the software is 32 bit protected mode -- I don't know if other
>                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>         And wont allowed to run on any decent OS, as any sane programmer
>         of an DosEMU would block ring 0 access !

Not true. He said that it uses DPMI. Which means that the program uses
the DPMI API to *request* the 32bit resources. DPMI support *is*
available in things like Windows and OS/2. Either as an add-on or as
part of the OS (I don't deal with that sort of thing often enough to be
sure which).

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 15:43:16 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator

In mail you write:

>>DOS is still the "lowest common denominator".
> Can't do copy and paste, can't do screen print and can't do great maps with
> 8 colours. and its a dog to use...

Excuse me? Screen print has been possible from the very beginning. If
all else fails, there's this program called GRAPHICS.COM that comes
with DOS. 

And programs can do their own screen printing. 

And I've got 256 color apps that run under DOS.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 16:38:28 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: RE: Canon Vargs

At 07:03 PM 2/1/98, you wrote:
>Moin John H Bogan Jr,
>
>> At one point (in the CT era), the Kforuzeng corsairs
>> were building a ship that mounted a type-J
>> meson gun as primary weaponry.
>
>	"J" are you sure, thats TL:15, is'nt it. 1kdt meson gun with 225GW.

From the "Traveller Adventure".  The Vargr were stealing two "J" meson guns
to outfit a pair of new cruisers.

- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 17:51:07 -0700
From: Sanders <timmon@primenet.com>
Subject: Space Gamers 4sale...

Going through my collection and I decided to sell some of the duplicates. 
Couple of them have Classic Traveller articles in them, and all are in
excellent condition. All prices include postage.

Space Gamer -

  $5      #15 (Jan/Feb '78)
            "Robotics for Traveller" by Tony Watson

  $4      #16 (March/April '78)
    
  $4      #17 (May/June '78)

  $5      #18 (July/Aug '78)
            "Traveller - Addendum Equipment & Weapons" by Robert Barger

  $4      #22 (March/April '79)

  $4      #26 (Jan/Feb '80)

  $4      #55 (Sept '82)

  $4      #69 (May/June '84)

  *Or, I will sell the entire lot as a group for $30

Please respond to me privately at: timmon@primenet.com

Paul Sanders           

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 20:09:28 -0500
From: John Toth <jtoth@erols.com>
Subject: MT Vampire Ships or Book 8- Robots

If anyone has an extra MT Vampire Ships or Book 8- Robots that they would not
mind selling or trading for, Please send me a e-mail.

John Toth
jtoth@erols.com

mUst... MakE... RoboTs...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 20:50:09 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: has ANYONE been paid?

John R. Snead wrote:

> eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch) wrote:
>
> > Not commenting on IG specifics, because I don't know any, but I have
> > a question...
>
> > I realize that it is common practice to send manuscripts to publishers
> >  "on spec", but how can they print them without a signed contract?

When you do something "on spec,"  you generally give up whatever rights you
had in the first place.  If they use it, and don't pay you, you could sue
them, but your chances of winning are going to depend on the jury more than
anything else.  Its possible but its a crap shoot.  Its the common law
doctrine of misappropriation, that is frowned upon my many courts, but some
still support.  This is why most publishers and especially tv/film producers
will not look at anything you send.

> >  Until the author signs a contract, doesn't he still own the copywrite,
> >  wouldn't publishing without a signed contract be a direct violation of
> > law?

Not necessarily, see above.  You do have the copyright but you can give it
away, contract or no contract.

>  Wouldn't it be both a civil and criminal offense?

Civil action for copyright infringement, yes.Criminal, perhaps.  But the value
has to be in excess of $1000 US (in the US anyway).


> I'm not a lawyer, but I've always thought this was true.  Does anyone else
> know more about this?

I'm a law student who has studied copyright in depth.
I urge you to check out http://www.lawgirl.com/  (she is a hollywood
entertainment/copyright lawyer).  or http://www.copyright.com/  (might be
*.org).

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 17:06:56 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: missiles, low berths, and other canon...

Tommy Grav wrote:
> 
> [An answer to Andrew]
> 
[snipped the part about costs]

The four versions of Traveller are in my view four different sets of
> rules for a science fiction game with a common theme. The storyline is
> IMHO not dependent on the use of KKM, HEPlaR, Thruster Plates,
> Plasma/Fusion Guns, Laser. The few things that is needed to conserve the
> storyline (Jump being one) has been keept. If you want the CT flauver on
> your Traveller use CT, you want MT use MT, and so on.
> 

Or use any combination that you can make fit your storyline. Isn't this
what we are about? 

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 17:22:54 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: missiles, low berths, and other canon...

Scott Ellsworth wrote:
> 
[sniped both comments and reply]
> 
> Fair enough.  I do hope you see this as not an attack, but a comment on why
> things have ended up in a state where certain parts of old canon contradict
> new canon, and lead to serious discrepancies that are difficult to resolve.
> 
If it was once thought to be in *our technology*, then in a whole galaxy
of worlds could it not be thought to be true again, on a world which is
reaching out but has not yet been touched by *our* technology. Who among
us can say. If someone out there can dream up an idea that *sounds*
feasible to me, and I can think of a way to use it in my story then I
will, regardless. That's what made me buy the *game* in the first place
and why I'm still with it. Whatever you guys dream up, I try to use.

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 17:41:16 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Missiles, low berths, and other canon...

Andrew Akins wrote:

[sniped major comments]

> The game should be backwards compatable - even if these things are not "official" any more.
> 

That is what I would like as well. However, if it is frowned upon by the
current designer's and individually you want to retain some or all of
what was, and you have access to the information, then use it or make it
up as you and others have done. 

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 20:43:33 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: has ANYONE been paid?

Douglas E. Berry wrote:

> At 02:05 PM 2/1/98 -0600, you wrote:
> >Not commenting on IG specifics, because I don't know any, but I have a
> >question...
>
> >I realize that it is common practice to send manuscripts to publishers "on
> >spec", but how can they print them without a signed contract?  Until the
> >author signs a contract, doesn't he still own the copywrite, wouldn't
> >publishing without a signed contract be a direct violation of law?
> >Wouldn't it be both a civil and criminal offense?
>
> My contract for Strike! specifies that I will be paid within thirty days of
> publication.  When did JTAS #26 come out?
>
> According to my Father-in-law, who is a lawyer, I own Strike! and could sue
> them for damages.

Yes, you could.  But that would be a pain in the arse because of the lawyer and
filing fees.  As well as the delay.  What you could do, is publish/release
Strike! yourself.  Its your copyright.  They breached the contract.  Its yours
to do with what you wish.  Sell it at dougberry.com or give it away.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 98 19:09:15 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator

On 02/01/98 at 03:43 PM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:

>>>DOS is still the "lowest common denominator".
>> Can't do copy and paste, can't do screen print and can't do great maps with
>> 8 colours. and its a dog to use...

>Excuse me? Screen print has been possible from the very beginning. If all
>else fails, there's this program called GRAPHICS.COM that comes with DOS. 

True, and you can screen print to the clipboard, paste into Paint and
manipulate it to your heart's content. I do it all the time.

>And programs can do their own screen printing. 

Also true, or use utilities. Heck, Galactic added screen printing to its
last version and it's about as DOS as you can get.

>And I've got 256 color apps that run under DOS.

Sure, and virtually all of those apps can also run in Windows, OS/2 and be
emulated by the Mac and various *nixs. It's possible to write a DOS program
that won't run in Windows, but well-behaved programs work fine.

Ah heck, this isn't worth arguing about, is it?  Chris has already said
what he *intends* to do, so we should back off on the arguments and just
support him as best we can.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 98 18:59:20 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Infini-V for Windows

On 02/01/98 at 03:03 PM,  "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net> said:

>At 07:29 PM 1/31/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>I have probably located an experienced programmer to port Infini-V(1) to
>>Windows. One decision factor for him will be how many people would
>>actually pay their shareware fees.  Most of you have heard of Infini-V
>>(called CSC in an earlier beta version) by now.  Would you pay for a
>>Windows version?

>I would happily pay a reasonable shareware fee for a version that worked
>on 3.x

Same here, but only up to 3.x, can't run 95 specific programs.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 16:52:37 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Brocolli - was +D-D Discussion (renamed)

In mail you write:

> Shadow wrote concerning my purulent interest in the taste of Hresh in cheese
> sauce:
>
>>If you are going to do something that "socially unacceptable", you
>>might as well get a few sides of K'kree.
>
> I have considered that myself.  I still wanna know do they taste like
> chicken or beef?
>
> OBTW, someone lurking over my shoulder has asked, "Wouldn't that be
> cannibalism?"
>
> I tried to explain why it wouldn't be, but I need someone else to validate
> what I said, and I have been told that I can't say what I said because then
> you would just say yes to get me out of trouble.
>
> Would someone on the list explain why it wouldn't be.

"Cannibalism" generally refers to the eating of members of ones *own*
species. For example, the word is used in describing species of fish
that eat their own young.

We don't *have* a term for "eating a member of another intelligent
species". 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 01:57:05 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Citizens of the TML

Hey,

Just a quick note to let people know that the "Citizens of the TML" listing
has now reached 58 members.  If you want your name added, updated, or
removed, drop me a note.

The URL to "Citizens of the TML" is:

http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero/Citizens.html



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mano au mano, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 17:53:37 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Decompression

In mail you write:

> From: Glenn Grant <neo@total.net>
>
>
>>Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK sez,
>>
>>><<Glenn Grant wrote:
>>>The fun thing with retractable claws, of course, is when you roll a
>>>Spectacular Failure and they get stuck, extended.
>>>
>>>Eeeeyew. What if you're inside a vac suit when you do this?
>>
>>If you use your claws while inside a vac suit, you are instantly nominated
>>for a Darwin Award. :)
>
> You know the only bad part about receiving the Darwin Award in this manner
> is that you'll have to accept it posthumously.

It's unuusual for a Darwin Award to *not* be awarded posthumously!

Remember, the award is for improving the human gene pool by removing
yourself from it. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 21:19:46 -0500
From: Daniel Ray Lane <drlane@edgenet.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

> 
> I refer you to the previous paragraph I quoted and remind you that even if
> they all come in on the disk, this still gives you over a billion km of
> arrival zone!  What are the odds?

High.

At least the odds are higher than you might expect.  They always are.  
What are the odds of two airplanes colliding in the sky or two ships
colliding at sea?  Both are operating in expansive media, constrained 
to optimized flight routes that will ingress to certain high traffic
zones. 
Yet collisions happen with alarming frequency.  

Why?  Because traffic lanes are crowded.  Candidate jump precipitation 
points are not all created equally.  Narrow cones of courses will exist 
in which ingressing ships will not have to maneuver excessively to make 
planetfall (Due to relative velocities between sytstems and worlds, as
Marc has pointed out).  The probability of interaction  will increase 
inversely with the distance to the objective.

Deconfliction is a necessity and cannot be left to chance.  Murphy
has seen to that.  

- -Dan Lane

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 18:21:29 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Jump Drive / Space / Time

Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> 
> At 01:41 AM 2/1/98 -0800, you wrote:
> 
> >My question is not about the time taken but the distance travelled
> >particlarily in a mis-jump.
> >If the length of the jump is determined by the power input, are we then
> >saying that in a mis-jump, more power was inadvertently applied to
> >create a longer than maximum jump 6 (if that is what the random role(s)
> >generate).
> >Also, how could/would we generate the extra power suggested above, when
> >tech only allows j6. I can justify the random direction.
> 
> This reminds me of a great story.
> 
> During WWII, when the Ameicans began bombing the Japanese home islands with
> the high-flying B-29 Super Fortress, crews were amazed when their ground
> speed plummeted to zero at certain altitudes, then shot back up when the
> crew climbed or dived as little as 200 ft.  Coming back from Japan, an
> equally odd effect was observed, where the plane would accelerate far
> beyond what was expected for the amount of thrust.
> 
> It wasn't until the end of the war that a meteroligist figured out what was
> going on.  The pilots had discovered the jetstream, the constant "river" of
> wind that wraps around the globe at high altitude.
> 
> Perhaps something similar is taking place when a ship jumps with bad fuel,
> or inside a gravity well, or with poorly maintained engines.
> --
This is what I was looking for. I need a way to get across the void
from  the Marches or Trojan Reach to say Gushemege or Verge or Llelish
without going around the claw. Do you think it is possible to have a
mis-jump go that far or is there such a thing as a worm hole that would
be OK in the Traveller world. I want my party to go from some known
area  and star charts to a totally unfamiliar area, where they have to
figure their way back (or around or whatever). I plan to use it to take
them from CT to TNE and T4 worlds and problems.

Jim Cooper

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 21:27:43 -0500
From: Daniel Ray Lane <drlane@edgenet.net>
Subject: Re: Canon Vargs

Michael Koehne wrote:
> 
> Moin John H Bogan Jr,
> 
> > At one point (in the CT era), the Kforuzeng corsairs
> > were building a ship that mounted a type-J
> > meson gun as primary weaponry.
> 
>         "J" are you sure, thats TL:15, is'nt it. 1kdt meson gun with 225GW.
> 
> > As I don't have convenient access to my copies of
> > High Guard and CT Fighting Ships, could someone
> > who does give stats for the type-J and check
> > the size of Imperial vessels that had J-Mesons?
> 
>         oups those numbers are MT numbers, btw are they convertible to HG ?
> 
> --
>  mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de         http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
>                 " CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "


Type J was the Meson Gun mounted on the Planet Class Cruiser
75,000 dt in Rebellion Sourcebook.

- -Dan Lane

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 20:48:32 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Software and Choice

Eris writes:
>
>And M0's
 
>"Expansion Process" *does* like the business plan for a certain
>
>corporation, I won't mention.


So THAT'S how the Rule of Man got started!!  I was wondering how a
bickering body like the UN converted into an autocracy.  Things are a lot
clearer now.  At least we all know what "Windows of oppertunity" really
means now :-)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 20:50:00 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Hit location

"Chris Miller" <ironstar@swbell.net> writes:
>
> This is "Millenium's End" from Chameleon Eclectic, 

[snip]
>
> I'm sure they have a website, I'll just have to find it...

www.blackeagle.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #87
*********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Monday, February 2 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 088



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Jump Drive / Space / Time
Re: MegaTraveller Book Order
Re: Hit location
Re: sin in traveller?
Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator
Justice...sort of...at last...
Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation
Re: Canon Vargs
Jump drive and gravity wells.
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Decompression/T4.1 Hit System
Re: Critical Hits and +D-D
Re: Brocolli - was +D-D Discussion (renamed)
world building formulas
Re: MegaTraveller Book Order
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Correction on Earth/Sun relationship and other intersting facts from the encyclopedia
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
RE: Hit location
Re: Brocolli
Re: Justice...sort of...at last...
Fashion in M:0 (was sofas of the 3rd Imperium)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 18:44:16 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@m9.sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Jump Drive / Space / Time

There is a J6 route across the rift.. :)

But.. if you need a plot device, roll some dice behind the screen, 
and say "Oh my" a few times, and mis jump them 36 parsecs whereever 
you want! :)

> This is what I was looking for. I need a way to get across the void
> from  the Marches or Trojan Reach to say Gushemege or Verge or Llelish
> without going around the claw. Do you think it is possible to have a
> mis-jump go that far or is there such a thing as a worm hole that would
> be OK in the Traveller world. I want my party to go from some known
> area  and star charts to a totally unfamiliar area, where they have to
> figure their way back (or around or whatever). I plan to use it to take
> them from CT to TNE and T4 worlds and problems.
> 
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com           http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

Thought for the day:
    Communist (n): one who has given up all hope
    of becoming a Capitalist.

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 20:41:50 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: MegaTraveller Book Order

CardSharks@aol.com writes:
>
>Shipping to Canada is $5 for the whole order.
>
>
>
>Marc

Maybe Marc should start runnign the IG shipping department?  Assuming that
he ships the goods, he'll be both faster _and_ cheaper...  :-/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 19:04:28 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@m9.sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Hit location

Nope.. that URL goes to

http://www.omurraygolf.com/

Cya

> > This is "Millenium's End" from Chameleon Eclectic, 
> 
> [snip]
> >
> > I'm sure they have a website, I'll just have to find it...
> 
> www.blackeagle.com
> 
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com                    http://www.bigfoot.com/~tsykoduk

Thought for the day:
    Dictatorship (n): a form of government under which everything 
    which is not prohibited is compulsory.

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 17:58:28 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: sin in traveller?

In mail you write:

> At 04:34 PM 1/30/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>>Ls = Biodome world, this world is totally hostile to human life.
>>
>>   Problem I can see with this is that *every* world that doesn't have a
>>breathable atmosphere (particularly worlds with atmosphere A+) will have
>>some kind of bio-domes.
>
> Unless the population is a native species...  I kind of like this addition
> as a trade code.  It would make for a good market for Ag worlds (anything
> but cultured yeast!), and differentiate worlds that have bio-domes from
> those that have adapted or modified colonists.

The "cultured yeast" bit is *way* out of date. Check out the *current*
reseaerch for long duration missions, and the Space Station. They'll
have a variety of foods, maybe a bit light on the larger meat critters.

Beef, pork, and other meat animals not suited to close quarters and
fish not suited to small ponds would all be good products to import.
Ditto for tree products that require *large* or *old* trees.

And new varieties of small plants, animals and fish would be good
"one-time" imports. Picture the profit for introducing something like
raspberries. 

BTW, smuggling any agricultural products past quarantine on such a
world would get you in *big* trouble. They don't want any pests
introduced by accident. Here on earth folks get upset enough about the
possibility of destroying cash crops. Think how upset they'll get when
it's the *life support* system at stake. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 22:30:05 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator

This I 100% agree with. As you stated in an earlier post, Chris' teacher(s)
are best equipted todetermine his skill level and what form his education
should take (I certainly hope!). And I have, for a very long time tried to
stay away from OS wars, they just aren't productive. I jumped into this one
more from the point of view that "we", meaning the Enire TML that were
engaged in this discussion, may have been steering him into a wrong
direction simply on the merit of what would be better for "US" as
individuals. I now see that I was as guilty as any other.

If I have offeneded anyone or upset anyone, this was far from my attentions
and I hereby offer my humblest appologies.

Of course if I can be of any assistance to Chris I will be glad to help. I
can't see how but the offer is there.

Mike Peters

Letterworks@Comten.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pen.net>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Sunday, February 01, 1998 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator


>>Ah heck, this isn't worth arguing about, is it?  Chris has already said
>what he *intends* to do, so we should back off on the arguments and just
>support him as best we can.
>
>Eris
>--
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
>-----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 22:41:22 EST
From: FKiesche@aol.com
Subject: Justice...sort of...at last...

Greetings All:

Well, after about a dozen e-mails to both Tim Brown, "sales@imperiumgames.com"
and the main IG address, a few faxes and a few exchanged phone messages, I
have finally gotten both "Emperor's Vehicles" and "Naval Architect's Manual"
in exchange for my JTAS subscription and the failed "Citizens" product. 

Sorry to say, but this has utterly soured me on IG as a company. I will
definately not be ordering directly from them anymore. This includes T4.1,
whenever that comes out. I was looking forward to buying a autographed
"deluxe" edition, but after all the hoops I had to jump through to fill my
orders for "EV" and "NAM", it's just easier to buy at the store or even to
wait for copies to go on sale second hand!

Fred Kiesche
(FKiesche@aol.com)
(Traveller Since 1977!)

"Travel in the company of this Ebokin delegation will be, to say the least,
trying. Like most of her kind, the Fifth Speaker to the Lawless is a petulant,
self-centered, and demanding individual."

- --The Traveller Adventure, GDW, 1983

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 22:19:10 -0600
From: deadeye@ebicom.net
Subject: Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation

My big point is whatever the differential that a 1g ship can overcome it
with few hours burn.  140km/s is the highest I heard.
(Starflight Handbook.)

Now there may be stars higher or lower than this, but not much greater
than one oreder of magnitude, and I think BArnard was listed as the
highest local be it 140km/s or 78km/s.  Its still 4 hours burn at most,
and that can easily be sone prior to jump for zero relative on
precipitation or even keep some relative in to zero burn orbit with.

As for needing to spend a lot of time to calculate jump and relative v,
a mistake could be tragic.  ex 4.3 yr x 15km/s is a hell of a lot of
space.  Still probably not that mush for Trav drives though.  Just don't
get the ACentauri with empty tanks:)

(I'd have to run some numbers and I'm too lazy tonight, but I think it
is a minor problem over short jumps.)
tom

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 20:16:30 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Canon Vargs

John H Bogan Jr wrote:

> As I don't have convenient access to my copies of
> High Guard and CT Fighting Ships, could someone
> who does give stats for the type-J and check
> the size of Imperial vessels that had J-Mesons?
>
> JB

HG: Class J Meson Gun is TL 15 and  1000 tons.

FS:  30 Kton CL, 'Gionetti' class (light cruiser)
        75 Kton SC, 'Wind' class (strike carrier)
        50 Kton PX, 'Empress Troyhune' class (planetoid monitor)

douglas  (who is _VERY_ glad to have a copy of Fighting Ships again!)

- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 19:35:45 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Jump drive and gravity wells.

I was thinking about how to implement Marcs "you drop out of jump if
there's a body in the way" rule.

There's a *big* problem. most planets and other bodies are *moving*.
That means that there are going to be cases where they *might* be in
the way, depending on *when* the ship "goes thru" that area.

This *rapidly* gets out of hand. If you run into something "halfway",
does that mean that you drop out of jump after only 3.5 days? If the
jump takes the full week +/- then the body *won't* be in the way. 

I think Marc needs to reconsider this. 

I can see getting "kicked back" to the 100 diameter limit if your
emergence point would be inside. That can be a matter of the gravity
well "pushing" on the *exit point*. 

But if you can get affected in mid jump it just gets *too* weird, or at
least requires *way* to much figuring.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 22:25:10 -0600
From: deadeye@ebicom.net
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

> I refer you to the previous paragraph I quoted and remind you that even if
> they all come in on the disk, this still gives you over a billion km of
> arrival zone!  What are the odds?

Admitedly very small, but it only takes ONE booboo in the 1100 years of
the Empire and the whole Imperium is calling for the TrafCon officer who
thought up the deconfliction plan to be hanged, tried and put on
Heraldo.

This is the way things really work in real ARTCC, and close calls are
nearly as bad.  One guy gets fried and the rest implement CYA.

Things probably worked like that for 100-200 years, then something
happend.  This would only be a player in core systems, with the fringw
wondering what the fuss was about(low traffic count.)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 98 23:20:38 -0700
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Decompression/T4.1 Hit System

On 1998-01-24 3:54 pm, Glenn Grant <neo@total.net> wrote the following:

>RE: the Task List, posted previously: I still think you should change
>"Craftsman" to "Handicraft" or "Shopcraft" or "Fabrication" or some such
>gender-neutral term. And "Sophontology" should be added to the Social
>Sciences cluster.

I like "Artisan"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 00:25:53 EST
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Critical Hits and +D-D

In a message dated 2/1/98 13:47:43 PM Pacific Standard Time,
ironstar@swbell.net writes:

<<  Also,
 is it really a problem that your characters are too resistant to damage? I
 know pistols aren't too threatening under these rules, but with all the
 autofire flying around, it usually doesn't take too long to get hurt. >>

Actually, we really didn't have too many PCs killed off...even with those
rules.  It seemed to have the effect of making my players a little more
cautious about combat.

As a (possibly humorous) aside...I had one combat I ran where the PCs where in
a building after having blown an ambush ona Soviet supply convoy.  A brand-new
first time player leaned out the 2nd story window to fire a weapon and took a
30mm round right to the forehead!!!  I tried very hard to take it back, but he
refused to let me... he said "thats just the breaks of the game"  Needless to
say, a new character was unfortunately in order...but he was a very good sport
about it.

And it certainly got everyone elses attention!

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 00:35:25 EST
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Brocolli - was +D-D Discussion (renamed)

In a message dated 2/1/98 18:01:08 PM Pacific Standard Time,
shadow@krypton.rain.com writes:

<< We don't *have* a term for "eating a member of another intelligent
 species".  >>

Sure we do...dinnertime!!!  After a winter of duck hunting, I learned they
could obviously tell time...at 5:59AM there are ducks flying everywhere.  Come
6:00AM (legal time for hunting to begin, in KS) they are all sitting on the
pond...they know you can't shoot 'em on the ground.  

A small attempt at facetious humor (but true enough, at least in my
experience...)

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 00:30:38 -0500 (EST)
From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
Subject: world building formulas

Hello Folks,
  Maybe someone on the list can help me with the following:

  I got a hold of a formula that states the following:

Vesc = (Density of planet x Radius of planet^2)^.5 in Earth escape
velocity units.  Thus, escape velocity calculated to equal 1.3 using this
above system, would be equal to 6.9 x 1.3 miles per second (or rougly 8.97
miles per second).

  When I used the next portion of the formula, it indicates that in order
to determine if a planet is a gas giant or not, it must have an "S" value
(why they chose the letter S, I will never know) of greater than 2.40.

  The the second half of this formula is:

S = V^2*R/L   where V is escape velocity in Earth units, R is disance in
Au's and L is luminosity in Earth Sol units.

  In any event, I noticed something interesting.  The values for given in
OTHER SUNS match those values in TRAVELLER 2300 AD.  The only real
difference however, is that the values given in OTHER SUNS depend upon the
luminosity as well as the distance from the sun, whereas it appears that
TRAVELLER 2300 AD relies upon just density and diameter (perhaps a default
of 1 AU and 1 Luminosity is assumed?).

  Theory behind the formulas: it is my understanding that escape velocity
of gases (and thus Gas retained) depends upon the temperature the gases
are heated to, and the gravity well the gases are in.  Since temperature
depends upon the luminosity of the sun as well as the distance, the second
stage formula looks ok to me.  Here is the kicker though... any planets
of approximately the correct density (earth norm of roughly 5.5 grams per
cubic centimeter) result in Gas Giants if their diameters are are more
than 1.55 times that of earth.

  Thus planets with a diameter of 12,400 plus miles will turn into Gas
Giants via the formulas above that I mentioned (assuming an earth normal
Luminosity at 1 AU distance).  Such a planet with a density of roughly 5.5
grams per cubic centimeter will have a gravity at tops of roughly 1.5
g's...

  Can anyone tell me if I should be junking this formula or not, or should
I accept it as being reasonably accurate, and take it from there?  These
are the same people that are using the formula of 

Temperature = (295 x((L/R^2)^(.25)) in degrees Kelvin.  This jives with
GURPS SPACE as saying that the Average Earth normal temperature is about
80 degrees at 30th Parallel.

  Well, enough musings for the night I guess...

    Hal 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 22:05:02 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@m9.sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: MegaTraveller Book Order

(no offense to Marc)

I am wondering.. when t4.x is done.. will IG accually ship it this 
century?

Cya

> 
> Maybe Marc should start runnign the IG shipping department?  Assuming that
> he ships the goods, he'll be both faster _and_ cheaper...  :-/
> 
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com                    http://www.bigfoot.com/~tsykoduk

Thought for the day:
    Concerto (n): a fight between a piano and a pianist.

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 22:46:28 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

From: Andrew Boulton <aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>> This is an extract from the charts for Jump in T4.1
>>
>> Marc Miller
>
[snip]
>>  Complication3: DestinationWorld is not in the direction the ship is
going
>> (that is, when it entered jump, its vectors of speed and direction was
>> retained; when it leaves jump, that vector is not pointed at the
>> DestinationWorld). If the DestinationWorld is not in the exact direction
the
>> ship is travelling, the ship will have to maneuver to reach its
destination.
>> This may require a course change of up to 180 degrees.
>
>This, and other complications, are solved by making a "standing" rather
than
>"running" jump.

"Standing" relative to what?  Obviously not the system you are jumping from.
>
>>  Complication4: DestinationWorld is occluded by another world or star. If
>> another world or star in located on a straight line between the
OriginWorld
>> and the DestinationWorld, the ship will leave jumpspace when it first
crosses
>> a sphere 100 diameters out from the intervening body. This may cause the
ship
>> to leave jumpspace elsewhere in the intended system, or even in another
>> system.
>
>I still don't like this new idea (well, new to Traveller, but you've
suggested
>it before). If this were true, ships would most likely move to a location
>above/below the plane of the ecliptic before jumping (and arrive at a
similar
>location), to minimise the chance of meeting something along the way.
Secondly,
>you would expect to see more misjumps arriving along the route, (and in the
>destination system, near a different world), whereas in fact they arrive
>randomly. Third, it implies a much closer connection between real space and
>jump space than has previously been suggested. This change breaks canon and
may
>have far-reaching implications. I can't think of a single reason for
including
>this.

I don't mind this wrinkle, but, it will complicate the sector generation
system.  Because it will need to noted which systems cannot be jumped
directly between.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 00:15:01 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Correction on Earth/Sun relationship and other intersting facts from the encyclopedia

In an earlier post, someone claimed that the earth is within 100 diameters
of the sun.  While checking some stats for inclusion in a private email, I
noticed that this is not the case.

The Sun is 1.39 million km (860,000 mi.) in diameter at an average distance
from the Earth of 149,591,000 km (92,960,000 mi.).

Also, I believe that someone said the sun was 90% hydrogen.  It turns out
that it is 95% hydrogen, by number of atoms, with about 5%, of helium and
heavier elements."

One more item of interest: "The Sun generates energy at the rate of 3.9 x
10(33) ergs/sec."

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 00:29:41 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

From: David P. Summers <summers@alum.mit.edu>


[snip all original post-from-Marc fragments and some insiteful comments]

>What are the odds of this [occultation]?  Not very significant I would
think (unless
>you are talking about a nearby moon or something).

I would have to agree.

>Also, should there be some mention that one also has to account for
>the relative orbital velocities of the worlds and the galatic motions
>of the stars in this process?

This sounds like a reasonable assumption.

>I also assume this will be more background and something the
>GM will abstract rather than something that need to be calculated
>each time a PC jumps...

I love semantics don't you?

If you mean, "...needs to be calculated by the player each time a PC
jumps...", then I would agree.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 00:40:31 -0600
From: David Reed <david@techrefuge.com>
Subject: RE: Hit location

On Sunday, February 01, 1998 13:04, Tsykoduk [SMTP:tsykoduk@m9.sprynet.com] 
wrote:
> Nope.. that URL goes to
> http://www.omurraygolf.com/
[snip]
> > > This is "Millenium's End" from Chameleon Eclectic,
[snip]
> > www.blackeagle.com

*rofl*  Can't produce, can't sell - perhaps IG will be soon selling their 
domain name...  I guess if you aren't making enough money not producing 
quality rpgs, then you can sell your domain to someone who is making money 
selling golf clubs.

Try www.chameleon-eclectic.com instead.  Funny, whois still lists 
blackeagle as owned by CEE.  Perhaps Charles has taken up golf sales on the 
side...  [We're really not bitter, honest. -ed.]

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
David Reed
webmaster@techrefuge.com                   The doorway to all freedoms
713.549.6931                               is framed with muskets ....

"Surely truth leads to virtue, and virtue leads to paradise." -Bukhari

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Feb 98 00:06:03 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Brocolli

On 02/01/98 at 04:52 PM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:

>"Cannibalism" generally refers to the eating of members of ones *own*
>species. For example, the word is used in describing species of fish that
>eat their own young.

>We don't *have* a term for "eating a member of another intelligent
>species". 

Lunch? ;-p

You know we probably should invent a term for "lunch." It hasn't come up in
one of my games yet, but it *is* eventually come up for somebody. 

What does cannibalism derive from? 

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Feb 98 00:18:39 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Justice...sort of...at last...

On 02/01/98 at 10:41 PM,  FKiesche@aol.com said:

>Well, after about a dozen e-mails to both Tim Brown,
>"sales@imperiumgames.com" and the main IG address, a few faxes and a few
>exchanged phone messages, I have finally gotten both "Emperor's Vehicles"
>and "Naval Architect's Manual" in exchange for my JTAS subscription and
>the failed "Citizens" product. 

I haven't gotten anything in exchange for JTAS or Citizens yet, but I
haven't been pressing them.  I figured they probably have enough troubles
right now, so  I'd leave them alone, and just see how long (or if) they
contact, or send me anything. Eventually, I'll get tired of waiting and
contact them, but for now I'm in a "We'll see" mode. ;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 21:42:25 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Fashion in M:0 (was sofas of the 3rd Imperium)

Sofas, hum, I've not done anything on interior decorating. I did post an
article about the return of the skirt to the Solomani fashion awhile back.
Give me a day or so and I'll knock up a brief essay on the subject.

Meanwhile I'll repost my article on the skirt:

  ***The reintroduction of the skirt in the Old Earth Union***

During the later years of the Interstellar Wars and the Rule of Man, the
skirt and dress entirely disappeared, replaced by the ubiquitous unisex
jumpsuit or slacks and shirt combination which came to dominate fashion
throughout the Rim during the Long Night. Many reasons have been advanced for
this; the final achievement of equality between the genders, the abandonment
of luxury under the pressure of the Vilani threat, the lack of practicality
of the dress or skirt in space etc. None of these reasons hold up to close
scrutiny, but it remains that for some reason over a 200 year period the
dress and skirt vanished from humaniti's collective wardrobe, not to return
for some 2000 years.

Naturally after so long an absence, the return of the skirt has been marked
by controversy and scandal. The first inkling of the return can be found in
Yokio Verruchi's summer collection introduced on Terra in 4537AD (year 18
under Imperial reckoning). Her use of a colourful short breach clout [a very
short apron like accessory] over a traditional shirt/trouser combination
created a storm of comment at the time. Most orthodox designers condemned it
as a pointless fad, but next season many young and up and coming designers
had worked the breach clout into their offerings; and they were to been seen
on many daring socialites of both genders.

The next major development came in 4544AD (25 Imperial). Over the intervening
years the breach clout had been gradually achieving more acceptance, having
become almost respectable in certain circles. However the entire Old Earth
Union was scandalised when Ulongo M'bow took the basic breach clout and
turned it into a complete wraparound. Many commentators where shocked by this
development, claiming it drew far too much attention to the hips and
buttocks. Several major retail chains refused to carry any of M'bow's designs
as a result. However it did catch on with a minority of the young and the
scandal may have actually aided it's acceptance in certain circles; it is
interesting to note that Hine Gordon (founder of the Hellfire Movement) was
seen wearing a wraparound on a number of occasions before her death. However
despite this, the wraparound remained an item only worn by the daring for at
least a decade.

The next stage was slow in coming and notable for being far more widely
adopted by women than men. In 4557AD (38 Imperial) Yokio Verruchi took what
now appears the minor step of transforming the wraparound into a short
overskirt (still worn as an accessory over trousers or a jumpsuit). Even
though this was on the surface a very minor innovation, it caused a greater
scandal than M'bow's introduction of the wraparound. Most of the fashion
establishment was aghast at Verruchi's 57 winter collection. Compared with
the soft lines of the wraparound, the overskirt's hard lines were regarded
as altogether too provocative. Even amongst the 'smart set' in which the
wraparound was now widely accepted (if still considered daring), the
overskirt was very slow in being adopted. However Verruchi persevered with
it. In her 58 summer collection, she lengthened the overskirt and added a
soft flowing flounce [attachment at the back, vaguely similar in effect to a
bustle] with a light fabric cascade.

Over the next few years Verruchi's designs where characterised by the both
the developing overskirt and the flounce (added to both wraparounds and more
conventional trousers and jumpsuits). Slowly Verruchi's overskirt and flounce
were taken up by other designers; and while they have yet to achieve even
the limited social acceptance of the wraparound, they are both now well
established as independent fashion trends. As previously noted, the overskirt
was not widely adopted in men's fashions until well into the 4560's, though
the flounce was taken up far sooner. whilst the flounce is now as common in
men's garments as in women's; the overskirt remains predominantly a female
fashion item.

This situation remained relatively static for the next nine years or so.
However over this period there was a slow trend for the overskirt to
lengthen (going from just below the hip in Verruchi's initial offering, to
just below the knee in Adam Frazers 65 summer collection). However the entire
fashion industry was taken aback in 4566AD (47 Imperial) when Jane Husaski
unveiled her summer collection. In this she took the overskirt; lengthened it
to mid calf, and made it an independent garment; doing away with the trousers
or jumpsuit entirely. The resulting uproar made the scandals surrounding the
wraparound and overskirt seem positively tame by comparison. Claims that she
was perverting public morals were leveled at Husaski; and one socialite was
even charged and convicted of lewd and indecent behavior for wearing one of
Husaski's creations to a diplomatic function. Numerous politicians called
for such lascivious clothing to be banned and many social commentators
decried it as a sign of imminent social collapse. Many are still outraged by
those wearing a skirt as a solo garment.

Naturally, this almost universal condemnation by 'the establishment' lead to
cautious popularity amongst the young. Many daring young men and women were
soon to be seen wearing shirt and skirt combinations without the benefit of
trousers (clothing sure to get one barred in respectable restaurants). The
situation was further confused in 4571AD (53 Imperial) when a year before her
death Verruchi combined the overskirt with the shirt to produce a high thigh
length overdress to be worn with trousers (another development decried in
polite society).


  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm

****************************************************************************
We're digging a hole in the road, you can't go up, you can't go down
you'll have to wait to drive around
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #88
*********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Monday, February 2 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 089



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation
Re: Jumpwar!  Launch the TL9 fighters/jump capacitor drones...
Re: Brocolli - was +D-D Discussion (renamed)
TML archives on CD-ROM/And/or question of the week
Re: Cyberware, Jump and Battle Rider and Required Execution
Re: Jump Drive / Space / Time
Ordering T4 products
Sophontophagism - was Brocolli - was +D-D Discussion (renamed)
Re: Jump Drive / Space / Time
Re: Brocolli
Re: TML archives on CD-ROM/And/or question of the week
Re : TL9 starfaring and Astrogation
Re: Software and Choice
Re: Broccoli
Re: Jumpwars
Posting WD articles
Re: Thoughts on jump drive
Re: MegaTraveller Book Order
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Decompression/T4.1 Hit System
Thoughts on Jump Drive
Jump Gates
Thoughts on Jump Drive
Thoughts on Jump Drive
Brocolli (was +D-D discussion)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 01:03:25 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation

From: deadeye@ebicom.net <deadeye@ebicom.net>


>I had a post that covered this a bit earlier today(31 Jan):)
>
>Relative v depends on the stars involved, but my example between Sol and
>Barnard's Star used a differential of 140 km/sec and resulted in a 4 hr
>burn at 1g to get up/down to speed.
>
>Planetary motion for earth could add/subtract 30km/sec worst case from
>the above number.
>
>These things need big tables-unless your ship and its Hubble class
>telecope are willing to wait a year to determine relative v.  Of course
>you could just aim for the pretty point of light and make up the
>difference once you miss by a few light minutes(or hours.)
>
>Who does these things?  The scouts...when they are not drunk.

The same tables that contain the data on stars wouldn't be much larger if it
included orbital data for the planets.  The calculations required would not
take any perceptible time longer for your PC.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 02:20:22 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Jumpwar!  Launch the TL9 fighters/jump capacitor drones...

From: David Reed <david@techrefuge.com>


>On Sunday, February 01, 1998 14:11, Ian or Katts [SMTP:ianw@orac.net.au]
>wrote:
>> >From: David Reed <david@techrefuge.com>
>> >IMO, jump fuel is just that: no blowing bubbles, no matter insertion, no
>> >jump atmosphere, no silly crap like that.  Since grav technology seems
>> >to keep pace with jump, it makes much more sense to use a jump
>> >drive that is
>> >1) high speed energy converter, 2) mostly dedicated capacitors, 3) not
>> >used to do anything but convert pure H into e=mc^2, and then 4) use all
>> >that energy to create a highly focussed quasi-gravitic field to rip a
hole in
>> >the weak fabric of interplanetary space into j-space, where we can tool
>> >along in a different quantum level before returning to n-space.
>[snip]
>> Yeah. Can I use this high-speed energy converter and capacitors to power
>> other ship systems ? If it just energy, why not ? Converting 280 cubic
>> meters of H into energy in one hour should allow a *big* battery of fast
>> firing weapons.


The conversion of 280 cubic meters (10 tons) of LHyd results in an energy
output of over 23,000 times that of our sun!  Even if streached out over an
hour, that's still over 6 1/3 times the output of the sun.  Think about it.

[snip]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 02:34:10 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Brocolli - was +D-D Discussion (renamed)

Dom wrote:


> "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> wrote:
>
>>SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> wrote:
>>>Thinking again, if the Hresh ever want to start a jihad against the
K'Kree
>>>does anyone want to help?
>>Only if I can export the carcasses!  (Yummm, tastes like beef.  No, it
>>tastes like chicken.  Beef.  Chicken.  Beef!  Chicken!!)
>
>We've got to be carefully about this. The K'Kree alien module describes the
>ships as enormous saucer-like things... have you seen 'Independence Day',
>and was that an atmospheric PA in action?
>
>Not to mention they have nuclear dampers.
>
>But that means all we need is a souped up Mac Powerbook and Jeff Goldblum
>to win the Jihad ;-)
>
>And if we do that you can export cooked K'Kree.

I can provide the refer ships and as much and as many sauces that might be
needed.  Do you think we'll be able to collect the gravy though?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 03:56:14 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: TML archives on CD-ROM/And/or question of the week

	How many people would be interested in a set of the TML archives on CD-ROM?
This would be a relatively complete set (going all the way back to '88 or so).
	Would you be willing to pay about $10 for a copy (presuming it could be
done)?



Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 02:50:50 -0600
From: iresources@juno.com (Vic&Amy Canada)
Subject: Re: Cyberware, Jump and Battle Rider and Required Execution

On Fri, 30 Jan 1998 19:25:16 -0500 "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
writes:
>In the future, given the pressures of military combat, I just think 
>that some
>amount of tinkering is inevitable.  Imagine an Army artillery 
>commander that uses
>an artillery computer in his head.  Saves on shipment and can't be 
>stolen.
>Internal intertial compasses and maps for navigation?  Pilot-ship 
>syncs that let a
>pilot work without having to sit in a bridge in the center of the 
>ship?  Internal
>radio transceivers?  Medical self diagnosis readouts?  An aiming 
>computer for
>tracking targets?  And these are just ones I can think of with 
>immediate military
>implications.
I would also think that capitalism/greed would have various corporate
entities competing to produce these things.  Any number of scientific
advances can occur when backed by corporate entities and competition.  
Not unlike plastics research over the years.


Vic
iresources@juno.com
http://www.iresources.net
http://www.iresources.net/ifc
http://www.evidence.net

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 03:00:35 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Jump Drive / Space / Time

From: Douglas E. Berry <dberry@hooked.net>


>At 01:41 AM 2/1/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>>My question is not about the time taken but the distance travelled
>>particlarily in a mis-jump.
>>If the length of the jump is determined by the power input, are we then
>>saying that in a mis-jump, more power was inadvertently applied to
>>create a longer than maximum jump 6 (if that is what the random role(s)
>>generate).
>>Also, how could/would we generate the extra power suggested above, when
>>tech only allows j6. I can justify the random direction.
>
>This reminds me of a great story.
>
>During WWII, when the Ameicans began bombing the Japanese home islands with
>the high-flying B-29 Super Fortress, crews were amazed when their ground
>speed plummeted to zero at certain altitudes, then shot back up when the
>crew climbed or dived as little as 200 ft.  Coming back from Japan, an
>equally odd effect was observed, where the plane would accelerate far
>beyond what was expected for the amount of thrust.
>
>It wasn't until the end of the war that a meteroligist figured out what was
>going on.  The pilots had discovered the jetstream, the constant "river" of
>wind that wraps around the globe at high altitude.
>
>Perhaps something similar is taking place when a ship jumps with bad fuel,
>or inside a gravity well, or with poorly maintained engines.

This sounds like a good hook for scientists.  Determine the exact impurities
that will give the same results each time.

Of course, they never would.  If they did, it wouldn't be Traveller any
more.

Then after they found the proper fuel mixture, they would then have to
figure out how to control the direction...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 04:11:59 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Ordering T4 products

	I don't normally advertise, per se, however an excellent person to order RPG
products off of is Kevin Knight of Sword of the Knight publications. I've
always recieved product in a timely manner (well, he did slip a little this
last time, but considering how hard I make my orders sometimes, I can't fault
him). In the case of curerntly available products I recieve 30% off (though I
think you need to subscribe to one of his magazines; Harold feel free to
correct me on this if I'm wrong), and S&H is only $5 regardless of the size of
the order. And he doesn't charge you till it ships or afterwards.

Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 03:19:37 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Sophontophagism - was Brocolli - was +D-D Discussion (renamed)

Shadow wrote concerning my purulent interest in the taste of Hresh
                          in cheese sauce:
>>
>>>If you are going to do something that "socially unacceptable", you
>>>might as well get a few sides of K'kree.
>>
>> I have considered that myself.  I still wanna know do they taste like
>> chicken or beef?
>>
>> OBTW, someone lurking over my shoulder has asked, "Wouldn't that be
>> cannibalism?"
>>
>> I tried to explain why it wouldn't be, but I need someone else to
validate
>> what I said, and I have been told that I can't say what I said because
then
>> you would just say yes to get me out of trouble.
>>
>> Would someone on the list explain why it wouldn't be.
>
>"Cannibalism" generally refers to the eating of members of ones *own*
>species. For example, the word is used in describing species of fish
>that eat their own young.

This was the one I was waiting for.  Thanks shadow.

>We don't *have* a term for "eating a member of another intelligent
>species".

Someone has suggested sophonophagism.  That sounds like as good a name as
any for the eating of a sapient species.  Of course if you murdered them
first, then there would be an additional charge of sophontocide.

So many threads, so little time...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 03:33:42 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Jump Drive / Space / Time

From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>


>This is what I was looking for. I need a way to get across the void
>from  the Marches or Trojan Reach to say Gushemege or Verge or Llelish
>without going around the claw. Do you think it is possible to have a
>mis-jump go that far or is there such a thing as a worm hole that would
>be OK in the Traveller world. I want my party to go from some known
>area  and star charts to a totally unfamiliar area, where they have to
>figure their way back (or around or whatever). I plan to use it to take
>them from CT to TNE and T4 worlds and problems.

If faced with such a prospect, I would get a .1 G Bussard ram jet added to
my ship.  Then I would go for it.  If you misjump, then at least you could
accelerate to 3,000 km/s and scoop your fuel from the surrounding space.
Come to think of it, you could accelerate to ram speed and just make normal
jumps.  It would still be shorter than going around the claw.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 03:52:28 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Brocolli

Eris wrote:

>What does cannibalism derive from?

The term is derived from the Spanish word canibal, referring to the Carib
Indians of the West Indies, whom Christopher Columbus and others reported as
eaters of human flesh.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 03:57:41 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: TML archives on CD-ROM/And/or question of the week

Bryan wrote:


> How many people would be interested in a set of the TML archives on
CD-ROM?
>This would be a relatively complete set (going all the way back to '88 or
so).
> Would you be willing to pay about $10 for a copy (presuming it could be
>done)?

I would.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 20:05:31
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re : TL9 starfaring and Astrogation

At 03:41 AM 2/02/98 -050
>Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 22:19:10 -0600
>From: deadeye@ebicom.net
>Subject: Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation
>
>My big point is whatever the differential that a 1g ship can overcome it
>with few hours burn.  140km/s is the highest I heard.
>(Starflight Handbook.)
>

Once you have Heplar or t-plates, no problem. But much, much tougher with
Nuclear Thrust Rockets.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 04:26:34 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Software and Choice

Michael D. Peters <Letterworks@Comten.com> wrote:


>Eris,
[snip]
>On the side of personal preference... My favorite was always the Atari ST
>system, but work and a sever lack of support forced me into the IBM PC,
>first in DOS then Win3.x and now into Win95/NT.  My programing skills (alas
>long unused) were in Atari GWBasic then in Turbo Pascal on the PC. Now I,
>barely scrape by with some rather crude Excel spread sheet work, so I would
>PREFER he write the program for another system, but if he is attempting to
>learn skills valid for todays market place he should go with the Evil
Empire
>and the latest version of that (even though it will, with Emporer Gates I
>marketing approach, be outdated by the time he leaves school).

If you still remember your Turbo Pascal, you can program with Delphi, a
product like Visual Basic for Turbo Pascal.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:16:16 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Broccoli

Leonard Erickson writes:
>We don't *have* a term for "eating a member of another intelligent
>species". 

Xenophagy? Though I guess the 'xeno' alone wouldn't convey the sapience
of the eatee ;-).


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:48:18 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Jumpwars

David Reed writes:
>IMO, jump fuel is just that: no blowing bubbles, no matter insertion, no 
>jump atmosphere, no silly crap like that.

Allow me to express my heartfelt thanks for your valuable opinion as well
as my appreciation of the courteous and well-mannered way in which you
express it. At the same time I guess I should humbly apolgize to you for
ever having the temerity to sully you eyes with such obvious silly crap
as bubble-blowing and matter-insertion. Mea culpa. Mea mea maxima culpa!

>Since grav technology seems to 
>keep pace with jump, it makes much more sense to use a jump drive that is 
>1) high speed energy converter,

A high-speed energy-converter that is somehow totally unsuitable for any
other application and does not improve in performance between TL 9 and
TL 15. This not only makes sense, it is the only possible way things could
be and nothing else would make sense.
 
>2)mostly dedicated capacitors,

Capacitors able to absorb an enormous amount of energy from a high-energy
converter but only a fraction of that from any other energy source (Yet
still both better and cheaper than any other capacitor on the market
although for some unknown reason that would no doubt make perfect sense
if only we knew it, they are not used for any other application. 

>Any questions?

How could there be any questions when you've explained it all so lucidly?



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
  "Free speech gives a man the right to talk about the
'psycology' of an amoeba, but I don't have to listen".
                  Elihu Nivens in 'The Puppet Masters'

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:47:36 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Posting WD articles

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
02/02/98 11:47 AM

<<Bolie IV wrote:
If you gave them the rights in exchange for pay and they don't pay
you, then they're in breach of contract and the contract is null and
void and the rights are yours.  You can't have a contract unless
there is an exchange of goods or services.
>>
For the record, WD always paid me on time and in full, so they held up
their end of the bargain. Sounds like that is unusual...
Andy

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 13:26:02 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on jump drive

David P. Summers writes:
>Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:24:46 +0100 (MET), Hans Rancke-Madsen
> 
>>1)	ALL jump fuel was used BEFORE the ship entered jump space
>> 	(Evidence: Drop tanks).
> 
>Which actualy argues that you can't be using it to created a
>jump bubble....

I think we need to agree on terminology here. I think "jump bubble" is
being used for two different concepts. One is the bubble of normal space
created by the jump grid and maintained (presumably) by the power plant.
This is the 'jump bubble' that has been used for many years. The other is
the comparatively new idea about a small bubble in jump space created to
allow the ship to slip into jumpspace. I propose that we start calling
this an 'access bubble' or 'access space'.

Anyway, assuming you mean that it can't be used to create an access bubble,
why do you think that? The whole point of the idea is that you have to use
the fuel before the ship can enter jumpspace.
 
>>3)	The capacitors of a jump drive held a comparatively small charge
> 
>I haven't seen enough to be convinced on this...

Just work out the size of a jump capacitor and the number of energy points
that can be stored in them before they explode. Then work out how many EPs
a power plant produces in four weeks using 1Pn% of fuel and compare it
with the number of EPs you can produce in 40 minutes using 10Jn% of fuel.

>>4)	Even if all energy was applied from outside, you still needed jump
>> 	fuel to initiate the jump.
> 
>This is based on one interpretation of one sentence (which never
>explicitly
>said you need more fuel after the energy needs were met and even if it
>did, it doesn't prove that you simply don't need to generate energy
>after the jump starts and you can't get anymore from the black globe).  

Oh, I'll grant you that if this was the only objection to the "a jump
drive is just a super-efficient/super-inefficient fusion plant"
explanation, then I'd be the first to advocate just forgetting about
this sentence. I just think that an explanation that also takes this
into account is better than one that dosen't. Especially since allowing
the energy to be supplied from outside opens up so many more problems
(Like why does any ship on a commercial route ever use internal fuel
tanks?)

>As I said in a previous message, I think it is a long way from being 
>established and that sentence conflicts with other comments which
>are much more explicitly stated.

I never claimed that the "access mass" explanation didn't contradict
numerous statements made here and there. I just claim that it explains
the odd features of a jump drive better than any other explanation I've
seen. To use a concept someone else suggested a few days ago, while it
contradicts canon, it agrees with Canon.
 
>>5)	The hydrogen used for jump fuel had to be in pure form rather than
>> 	as a compound like water or ammonia (Both of which gives you more
>> 	hydrogen per volume).
> 
>Which is also true of the hydrogen being used for maneuver drives,
>weapons, etc.  (clearly energy related uses.)

Quite right. Better not to say that too loud, though. It opens up an
entirely new can of worms. Why DO ships carry their power plant hydrogen
as LHyd instead of as, say, water? It dosen't really make much sense,
does it? Not as long as you assume that volume is the prime constraint
on starship design. 
 
>>Oh, yes, one last point: Why would they call it jump fuel if it isn't
>>used for fuel? Well, a little bit of it IS used for fuel, and the very
>>same substance is used to fuel the power plant, so for convenience it
>>is all called fuel rather than distinguish between the part that is used
>>for fuel and the part that is used for "access mass".
> 
>Well, this is the sort of thing I don't like.  To fit the jump
>bubble theory to a situation that was designed around another
>theory, you start having to explain things away (like why it's
>called fuel when it isn't fuel).

Oh, I agree that it would be better if nothing needed to be explained
away. I just don't agree that it is less artificial to explain away all
the oddities of the traditional explanation than it is to explain away
a small etymological oddity. 

>Sure this can be done, but it leaves things that much harder to accept.

Harder than to accept that a jump-drive type power plant wouldn't improve
in efficiency from TL 9 to TL 15? Harder than to explain why such a power
plant is completely useless for any other application? Harder than to
explain why jump drive capacitors are so different from capacitors used
in any other field?

>That is why I prefer to stick with things closer to the original.

Heh. So do I. I just think that my explanation is closer to the original
(in spirit, that is) than yours.

>It is always a better idea to limit decisions on [how?] things
>fundamentally work to the beginning of the design of the background as
>much as possbile, at least in my mind.

I agree with you 100%. As much as possible. But is it possible to believe
that [insert previous comment about what I find difficult to believe about
the traditional explanation]? Obviously it is possible for you. I just
wish you would explain it to me so that I could believe it too.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 08:23:22 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: MegaTraveller Book Order

In a message dated 98-02-01 21:49:47 EST, you write:

<< >Shipping to Canada is $5 for the whole order.
 >
 >
 >
 >Marc
 
 Maybe Marc should start runnign the IG shipping department?  Assuming that
 he ships the goods, he'll be both faster _and_ cheaper...  :-/
  >>

BTW. I apologise for answering that latest bit through the list. I neglected
to look at the addrss before I hit reply.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 08:23:10 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

In a message dated 98-02-02 01:41:06 EST, you write:

<< >
 >This, and other complications, are solved by making a "standing" rather
 than "running" jump.
  >>

I think the idea was that a running jump does full acceleration to jump point
and jumps, while a standing jump implies accelerating to midpoint, and then
decelerating to jump point.

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 08:23:20 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Decompression/T4.1 Hit System

In a message dated 98-02-02 00:24:08 EST, you write:

<< 
 I like "Artisan"
 
  >>
Craftsman implies a certain concern for quality work; artican implies more
creative work. I remain unconvinced that I should change it. Notice that I
also kept History and didn't add a companion Herstory.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:28:20 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
02/02/98 12:28 PM

<<
A Scientist at Oxford proved that, Mathematicly at least, Hyperspace
exists.
>>
Check out Michio Kaku's "Hyperspace" for an equation-free summary of
current thought in the field. (Anyone who submits an antimatter particle
accelerator for his high school science project is worth listening to,
IMHO.)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:34:09 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Jump Gates

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
02/02/98 12:34 PM

<<Richard A. Flores wrote:
Alas, it cannot be so in the universe of Traveller.  CT & T4 both state
categorically that no ship under 100Td can survive the transit.
They didn't say why, but they did say so.
>>
Don't recall the T4 statement, but CT said you couldn't put jump drives in
anything smaller, which may not necessarily mean they wouldn't survive
transit. It was also implied in CT book 2 that jump-capable message
torpedoes could exist.

I now have the Regency sourcebook for TNE and that mentions some sort of
jump-capable ship's boat in use by the Regency Navy, IIRC.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:46:00 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
02/02/98 12:46 PM

<<Shadow wrote:
If this works, the "jump capacitors" (or whatever you use to store the
"power") might be something that "stores" the power by "expanding" one
of the 7 dimensions of space time that are currently "wrapped"
(theories say that the universe has 11 dimensions. It's just that in
the extra 7 "directions" the distance around the circumference of the
universe is smaller than an atomic nucleus.).
This is something that you might try to do as a means of getting around
the lightspeed barrier. We can state that it doesn't work, but that if
you take the "energy" from when the '"inflated" dimensions snap back to
normal and feed it ito a J-drive, it lets you enter jumpspace and make
a jump.
>>

I like this idea. I tell you what else I like about this superstring type
of theory - I can say that jumpspace has one more dimension "rolled up"
than realspace, which makes a 2D map an accurate representation. :)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:51:19 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
02/02/98 12:51 PM

<<Shadow wrote:
Just a minor quibble. You need more than two numbers to specify
*someone else's* vector. You can specify your own *heading* that way.
And you can specify their heading that way. But to specify a *vector*,
you need an origin cordinate. And that takes *three* numbers (either
X,Y, and Z, or Rho, Theta, and dex).
>>
Absolutely right. Hence the reference to a "datum" later in the quote... :)

I used to work on ASW systems, so I tend to play space combat like
submarine movies. Works for me...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:55:24 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Brocolli (was +D-D discussion)

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
02/02/98 12:55 PM

<<Richard A Flores wrote:
OBTW, someone lurking over my shoulder has asked, "Wouldn't that be
cannibalism?"
I tried to explain why it wouldn't be, but I need someone else to validate
what I said, and I have been told that I can't say what I said because then
you would just say yes to get me out of trouble.
Would someone on the list explain why it wouldn't be.
>>

In my book it isn't cannibalism unless you are eating your own species. For
a human to eat a K'Kree, or a Hresh, would not be cannibalism. Not nice,
maybe, but not cannibalism either.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #89
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Monday, February 2 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 090



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship
Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation
PE Extensions for Galactic ready for testing
RE: THUDDD-8 Postmortem
Re: TML archives on CD-ROM/And/or question of the week
Origin of "cannibalism"
Pocket Empires
Re: world building formulas
Re: science ships?
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Jump Gates
Re: sin in traveller?
Re: Canon Vargs
Re: Brocolli (was +D-D discussion)
Re: TML archives on CD-ROM/And/or question of the week
Re: MegaTraveller Book Order
Re: Ordering T4 products
The Truth is Revealed!
RE: science ships?
Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation
RE: Canon Vargs
RE: TML archives on CD-ROM/And/or question of the week
Re: Correction on Earth/Sun relationship and other intersting facts from the encyclopedia

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:59:01 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Initial Colonization Considerations I, was: (Re: Low Tech Colony Ship

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
02/02/98 12:59 PM

<<Kenji wrote:
ObTrav:  Speaking of Gorbovsky, anyone else ever use Leonid Andreevich as
an NPC or patron in a Traveller game?  And what _are_ the sofas of the
Third Imperium like?
>>
I use "chairdogs" from one of Frank Herbert's stories. They are genetic
constructs with the loyalty and devotion to man of a dog, but superior
upholstery. So, they creep around the apt. trying to entice you to sit on
them so they can give you a hug/massage. [Unfeeling players have been known
to have chairdog races around their hotel suite.]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 13:05:05 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
02/02/98 01:05 PM

<<Eris wrote:
_Scouts_ had a lot of information, but it didn't include formulas for
calculating orbital velocities, and, it seems to me, that would be rather
important.  Are planetary orbital velocities based solely on distance from
the primary? Are factors such as planetary density and stellar type
important enough to be taken into account?
>>
Orbital velocity - yes, important, especially if you have a fuel-using
manoeuvre drive. Intersecting your target's orbit with an 11 km/s velocity
difference can ruin your whole day, as can not having the fuel to match it.
I think orbital velocities can be worked out from Kepler's Laws, you might
need stellar and planetary masses as well? [Help, guys, I'm drowning here!]
I think for an approximation density and start type could be ignored...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 13:42:43 +0000
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: PE Extensions for Galactic ready for testing

Greetings Folks,
     I've reached feature freeze on my PE extensions for Galactic and I'm
not opening it to the list for "Beta testing". You can upload it from
"ftp://ftp.maths.tcd.ie/pub/jaymin/trav/pe.zip". Jim Vassilakos's Galactic
can be found on "http://www.cs.ucr.edu/~jimv/progs.html". This must be
installed first. The datasheet is below. Although you can play around, you
really need to own a copy of Pocket Empires to be able to work out much of
what to do.
     Refer to the README.PE inside of pe.zip for installation instructions
for the extensions and, once installed, refer to the galaxy notes that come
with it. Please report bugs to me at jo_grant@lotus.com (NOT Jim) and put
PE somewhere on the subject line.
     PLEASE do not request new features, or ask about joining a PBEM. I
just want to get this working first. If all goes well, I'll officially
release it with Galactic 2.4 and probably start a PBEM around mid-February.
The software supports a maximum of 16 empires so I'm sure there will be
plenty of room. I'll notify the list when I'm ready to start taking
applicants. The best you can do in the meantime is install the system, get
familiar with it, and chase down any remaining bugs.
     Unless, of course, someone else likes it so much that they want to run
their own PBEM, in which case I'd love to play :-).

     Cheers,
          Jo Grant


PROGRAM NAME: "GALACTIC" [v2.3] {July 1997}
GAME SYSTEM: Traveller/MegaTraveller
AUTHOR: Jim Vassilakos (jimv@empirenet.com)
FUNCTION: Sector Viewer/Generator
OPERATING SYSTEM: IBM (MS-DOS)
SIZE: 3,153,415 bytes zipped
COMMENTS: Allows user to randomly generate sectors, displays the maps in
VGA, translates the UWP code to English, and keeps campaign notes in text
files which can be accessed directly from the map. The maps all mesh
seemlessly. Lots of official & non-official Traveller sectors are included.
There's even world mapping and star system mapping software. Contains
enough online help that it can be used by someone who has never before
played Traveller and is just getting into it. Note, you must use "-d"
option when unzipping.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:15:08 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: RE: THUDDD-8 Postmortem

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I haven't seen the results yet, but I was glad to get the feedback =
(positive and negative) on my first design, the Caravel.=20

There were design errors, some of which voters pointed out made the ship =
unworkable (particularly power for the jump drives). I found a copy of =
QSDS 1.5 on line and checked the design from that point of view, and was =
able to fix it - an erroneous table reading (2 tn HEPlaR drive installed =
when a 1 tn drive would have sufficed) allowed enough room for the extra =
50 Mw power plant _and_ an additional 6 tns of cargo. This made me a bit =
happier, as those deck plans I worked so hard on were still workable. =
The price was still screwy due to the low jump drive prices in the =
original book (come down to QSDS 1.0, where our Jump Drive prices are =
IN-SANE!!!!  ;)   ) - I'll rework the economic analysis on the web page. =
http://hartwick.edu/~smithw/main.htm , the Deck plans are on the =
Traveller page.

Walt Smith
- -----------------------------
"No, he's the GM ... he's not necessarily evil, just very, very =
chaotic."
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:18:00 -0500 (EST)
From: GAHUNTER <Gahunter@cris.com>
Subject: Re: TML archives on CD-ROM/And/or question of the week

On Mon, 2 Feb 1998 Kagehira@aol.com wrote:

> 	How many people would be interested in a set of the TML archives on CD-ROM?
> This would be a relatively complete set (going all the way back to '88 or so).
> 	Would you be willing to pay about $10 for a copy (presuming it could be
> done)?
> 

I would be - as long as it was packaged into a document management system
so you could search on any topic...

It would have to be easy and simple to use...

Guy Hunter
(gahunter@cris.com)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:25:01 -0500
From: "Glenn Crawford" <glennc@nelvana.com>
Subject: Origin of "cannibalism"

A heretic spake blasphemy as such:
> What does cannibalism derive from? 

While the derivation of the word is not 100% certain, it supposedly comes
from a corruption of the Carib indians, who were accused of being cannibals
by their neighbours. (fact: they were not, and actually said their
neighbours were instead. This is usually the case, it is always those people
"over there" are cannibals)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:17:12 -0500
From: "Glenn Crawford" <glennc@nelvana.com>
Subject: Pocket Empires

Leonard sayeth:
(reply snipped)

Thank you for your comments. I threw this out (my changes) to see if it 
a) made sense
b) need scientific tweaking

How was it in general

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:57:12 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: world building formulas

>  Theory behind the formulas: it is my understanding that escape velocity
>of gases (and thus Gas retained) depends upon the temperature the gases
>are heated to, and the gravity well the gases are in.  Since temperature
>depends upon the luminosity of the sun as well as the distance, the second
>stage formula looks ok to me.  Here is the kicker though... any planets
>of approximately the correct density (earth norm of roughly 5.5 grams per
>cubic centimeter) result in Gas Giants if their diameters are are more
>than 1.55 times that of earth.

The escape velocity for gasses depend solely on the gravity well but the
thermal volocity of the molecules depend on the temp. When a small portion
of the speed distribution in the gas is above escape volocity those
molecules will never come back and yor gas starts to leak away.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:36:24 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: science ships?

>    Is there any need for a pure Science ship in Traveller?  Are there the
>"stellar anamolies" so popular in Star Trek?  What about nebulas?  Are there
>any in Traveller?  Any rules for em, i mean...  I should imagine people would
>be studying stars and stuff but by the time of the 3I there's probably an
>awful lot known about them and thus less need to research.

Wrong, whenever something is studied each answer to a problem leads to more
questions. 3I probably knows HUGE amounts about stars that we don't but
that is nothing compared to what the 3I don't know about them (and we don't
even know that we don't know).

I suspect one thing the 3I can do is sample the interstellar medium by
jumping into deepo space and search for iceballs etc that have accumulated
interstellar molecules for millions of years, then carefully study them
layer by layer to get a history which can tell you how the currents in
space flow etc. They could also try to match vectors with one of those
multi AU long matterspikes shot out from supernovas as I've read about.
They could search for lost generationships etc that old legends speak about
(to give the scientist adventurers some spooky stuff to chew on).


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:43:09 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

>I like this idea. I tell you what else I like about this superstring type
>of theory - I can say that jumpspace has one more dimension "rolled up"
>than realspace, which makes a 2D map an accurate representation. :)

I used that handwave before but gave it up as I like my players to be able
to see neighbour stars, measure travel time for sublight ships, send
messages across parsecs with the lasercannons etc all requiring that the
maps actually map normal space so that 3 parsecs is 3 parsecs wether by
jump or by sublight.

Use the hyperspace is 2D handwave but only after deciding wether saying no
to the above mentioned plotlines is OK.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:45:03 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Jump Gates

>Don't recall the T4 statement, but CT said you couldn't put jump drives in
>anything smaller, which may not necessarily mean they wouldn't survive
>transit. It was also implied in CT book 2 that jump-capable message
>torpedoes could exist.

??? Where was that? They mentioned jumptorps in Leviathan supplement but
that was made by Games Workshop methinks. Where in Starships (book 2) are
jump torps mentioned?


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:59:29 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: sin in traveller?

>BTW, smuggling any agricultural products past quarantine on such a
>world would get you in *big* trouble. They don't want any pests
>introduced by accident. Here on earth folks get upset enough about the
>possibility of destroying cash crops. Think how upset they'll get when
>it's the *life support* system at stake. :-)
>
>--
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

Look at the publics opinion about smoking today. Think about how people
living in a cramped biodome with badly maintaned LS equipment. Yes, there
could be a death sentence on smoking in certain places and this could be a
very nice plotline for players who are careless.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 17:08:01 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Canon Vargs

Michael Koehne wrote:
>
> Moin John H Bogan Jr,
>
> > At one point (in the CT era), the Kforuzeng corsairs
> > were building a ship that mounted a type-J
> > meson gun as primary weaponry.
>
>         "J" are you sure, thats TL:15, is'nt it. 1kdt meson gun with 225GW.
>
> > As I don't have convenient access to my copies of
> > High Guard and CT Fighting Ships, could someone
> > who does give stats for the type-J and check
> > the size of Imperial vessels that had J-Mesons?
>
>         oups those numbers are MT numbers, btw are they convertible to HG ?
>
> --
>  mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de         http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe

They poured all their resources into building the ship (called Ozarr) but
never got the gun as some PC stopped the deal in Traveller Adventure (my
players stole a nuke from Roet Bannerji and put inside one of the cargo
crates to explode in jump). Canon says Kferuzeng nearly disbanded prior to
the rebellion, reading between the lines: because of the massive loss of
charisma in building the ultimate corsair but never getting the gun. My
Kferuzeng joined with another group in the raid on Depot to finally get
their gun. They didn't and are now moving around, all bark but no bite.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:11:26 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Brocolli (was +D-D discussion)

Andy Slack wrote:
>
>In my book it isn't cannibalism unless you are eating your own species. For
>a human to eat a K'Kree, or a Hresh, would not be cannibalism. Not nice,
>maybe, but not cannibalism either.
>
Thanks for the confirmation.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:10:31 -0500 (EST)
From: Scott Taylor <izzylobo@faerealm.faerealm.com>
Subject: Re: TML archives on CD-ROM/And/or question of the week

> 
> How many people would be interested in a set of the TML archives on CD-ROM?
> This would be a relatively complete set (going all the way back to '88 or so).
> Would you be willing to pay about $10 for a copy (presuming it could be
> done)?

I would be willing to pay this. (I'm not even interested in search 
engines; I have plenty of database creation tools...)

I *would* be upset if the files were still .zipped, however...

Scott Taylor
Freelancer for Hire
Have Mac, Will Travel

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:00:43 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: MegaTraveller Book Order

Marc wrote:

>> Maybe Marc should start runnign the IG shipping department?  Assuming
>> that he ships the goods, he'll be both faster _and_ cheaper...  :-/
>
>BTW. I apologise for answering that latest bit through the list. I
neglected
>to look at the addrss before I hit reply.
>
>Marc

After reading your previous post, I can forgive this minor oversight.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 08:20:16 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@m9.sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Ordering T4 products

OK.. and how do we contact this wizardly broker?

> 	I don't normally advertise, per se, however an excellent person to order RPG
> products off of is Kevin Knight of Sword of the Knight publications. I've
> always recieved product in a timely manner (well, he did slip a little this
> last time, but considering how hard I make my orders sometimes, I can't fault
> him). In the case of curerntly available products I recieve 30% off (though I
> think you need to subscribe to one of his magazines; Harold feel free to
> correct me on this if I'm wrong), and S&H is only $5 regardless of the size of
> the order. And he doesn't charge you till it ships or afterwards.
> 
> Bryan
> 
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com                    http://www.bigfoot.com/~tsykoduk

186,000 Miles Per Second;
Not only a good idea, it's the law!

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:24:33 -0700
From: scharlto@ifsna.com
Subject: The Truth is Revealed!

Ha!  Marc isn't Grandfather after all.  Based on this message, he is just a
K'Kree with fake wings pasted on his back!


> Make sure you include a copy of this email with your oder,
> and include your own address.
>
> Marc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:48:09 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: RE: science ships?

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Generation ships - if anyone has FASA's _Sky Raiders_ trilogy, _Fate of =
the Sky Raiders_ has a very good lost generation ship scenario - the =
heroes trapped on a crippled mega-asteroid ship, parsecs from the =
nearest star, trying to recover enough Sky Raiders jump technology to =
escape...an interesting adventure series, but not really one calling for =
a full-fledged science vessel.

I think that most scientific investigations would not call for a =
dedicated "Science Ship" - just as most field investigations on Earth =
have been done by people travelling as others do, just bringing another =
camera and some notebooks with them. That guy chartering your Far Trader =
to some backwater world might fill your cabins with research assistants =
and your hold with expedition equipment, but in his case he just needs a =
ship to get to the research area.

However, I think that any star system intended for colonization would =
need orbital science ships to act as bases for pre-colonization =
research. You'd want orbital for quarantine purposes (no one wants to =
discover a Final War biowar virus while jumping back to Sylea), and for =
orbital scans - while your ground teams are doing biosamples and =
ecosystem surveys, your science ship is adding meteorological, solar =
radiation and cartographics data. Whatever government or corporation =
backing the effort would find science ships a very cheap innvestment, =
compared to the other costs of a colony and the catastrophes likely to =
occur if you colonize without a full survey.

Why use a dedicated science ship for this? Because you need the lab =
spaces, science-grade sensors (which may be better than military grade), =
and self-reliance (shops, spares, other things needed for long duration =
away from starports). A freighter or warship would need so much =
conversion for this that it would be price-comparable to a purpose-built =
vessel, IMO.

What advantages does a lab ship (with it's jump drives especially) have =
over an observation satellite, or a ground base? The lab ship can move =
on when the survey is done, either of the other two have to be hauled or =
abandoned. If the phenomenon you're investigating changes or moves, you =
can move with it. ("Commander, the Anomaly is flaring, reading 350% and =
rising!" "Damn! Helm, prep for emergency jump!")=20

I can see a military patrol squadron's sensor logs being routinely sent =
to the local Astrography department of a University as raw research data =
(once they'd been vetted for military secrets).  Hmmm - plot hook: Spies =
realize some military data might be left in the logs, try to get the =
originals from the University...well, I digress. My point for this =
paragraph was that some functions of science might well be carried out =
or assisted by other types of vessels, but there should be plenty for a =
dedicated science/survey/research support vessel to do.

A science ship should, like everything else, have a why. If a space =
phenomena, region or project is best studied by that package of jump =
drives, sensors and lab spaces we call a Science Ship, someone will =
build one to do it. Though it can lead to interesting complications if =
you really need a science ship, but can't get one...

Walt Smith
- ----------------------------

Will someone please explain to me why it's more expensive to take a slow =
ship somewhere than a fast one in Traveller? You'd think the guy with =
the Jump-5 passenger liner could charge _some_ kind of premium for his =
services... 
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- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD2FD0.7001A160--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:59:37 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation

Andy Slack wrote:

>Orbital velocity - yes, important, especially if you have a fuel-using
>manoeuvre drive. Intersecting your target's orbit with an 11 km/s velocity
>difference can ruin your whole day, as can not having the fuel to match it.
>I think orbital velocities can be worked out from Kepler's Laws, you might
>need stellar and planetary masses as well? [Help, guys, I'm drowning here!]
>I think for an approximation density and start type could be ignored...

He's right.  I don't know about Keplar's laws but this will work

V = sqr(K * M / R)

Where
V is the orbital velocity
K is the gravitational constant (6.67259 * 1e-8 cm^3/g s^2)
M is the central mass
R is the radius of the circular path

This works for stars and planets.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 12:00:55 -0500
From: John H Bogan Jr <jbogan@pipeline.com>
Subject: RE: Canon Vargs

At 07:03 PM 2/1/1998, you wrote:
>Moin John H Bogan Jr,
>
>> At one point (in the CT era), the Kforuzeng corsairs
>> were building a ship that mounted a type-J
>> meson gun as primary weaponry.
>
>	"J" are you sure, thats TL:15, is'nt it. 1kdt meson gun with 225GW.

Yes, a "J". They "borrowed" one from the Imperial
Navy, or at least planned to. Likely they wound
up with something a bit more home-grown, but
the ship was designed to be big enough to
house and power a J.

The actual design was never defined, but the
requirement of using a J at least would give
some clue to minimum size.ssels that had J-Mesons?
>
>	oups those numbers are MT numbers, btw are they convertible to HG ?

Don't know offhand.

JB

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:15:23 -0600 
From: "Reed DE (David)  at MSXSSC" <DR200282@shellus.com>
Subject: RE: TML archives on CD-ROM/And/or question of the week

> > How many people would be interested in a set of the TML archives on
CD-ROM?
[snip]

Definitely interested.  Relatively complete, though?  I'd personally rather
see a vetted "best of..." myself.  There has been a huge amount of white
noise.  Although, who am I to complain?  I just accidentally nuked the 50MB
I had archived.  doh!

> I would be willing to pay this. (I'm not even interested in search 
> engines; I have plenty of database creation tools...)

Flat text files would be best, with a standard naming convention of some
kind... and NOT the digest versions.  Ick.  3i dating would be a nice touch:
3-digit day number - two digit year number (anyone on the TML who gets
confused after 2000 is probably too old anyway ;-) and a letter or two for
the spammers amongst us.

Will you be sorting by category, date, or putting all messages in the root?
That would be fun.  Heh.  Category wouldn't work real well, for those who
respond to more than one unrelated thread simultaneously with lame segueways
(guilty! and you, too, Harold!).  By month might be the best way to go.

A yearly archive?  Consider putting them on zip disks instead of CDs?

> I *would* be upset if the files were still .zipped, however...

Don't compress 'em, please...  Kewl!  One more thing to look forward to
splashing cash on.

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
David Reed          Shell Services International          713.245.2656
Infrastructure Technology Services                   dreed@shellus.com

"Surely truth leads to virtue, and virtue leads to paradise." -Bukhari
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 11:56:13 -0600
From: deadeye@ebicom.net
Subject: Re: Correction on Earth/Sun relationship and other intersting facts from the encyclopedia

> 
> The Sun is 1.39 million km (860,000 mi.) in diameter at an average distance
> from the Earth of 149,591,000 km (92,960,000 mi.).
>

I was using a 1 million mile assumption. I stand corrected by about 14%
:)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #90
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(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Imperium Map Question
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Temporal Aspects of Jump Drive
Re: blackeagle.com
Re: the magic jump reactor model (jump fuel for power)
Re: [TTL] Airframe vs. Streamlined speeds.
Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator
Re: Jump Gates
Re: TML archives on CD-ROM/And/or question of the week
Re: Thoughts on jump drive
T4 Auction at eBay -- 2 days left!
Re: Jump Gates
Re: Jump drive and gravity wells.
Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation
Re: [TTL] Airframe vs. Streamlined speeds.
Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation
Re: Imperium Map Question
Attention Freelance Traveller Authors
Re: Jump Gates

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 23:11:25 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Imperium Map Question

>Is this map part of the contents of the Deluxe Trav
>box that simply isn't listed anywhere (I checked _Heroic
>Worlds_), something from another product, or is it the
>"Known Space Map" listed in the CT products
>section of the TML FAQ?
>
>Any help would be appreciated, and thanks in advance!
>
>-Phil

It is not the map that came with Deluxe Traveller (it was a Spinward
marches map), I think it was a poster map for shops and not available as a
product (I have one too).


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 14:45:55 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Mon, 2 Feb 1998 00:29:41 -0600, "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
> >I also assume this will be more background and something the
> >GM will abstract rather than something that need to be calculated
> >each time a PC jumps...
> 
> I love semantics don't you?
> 
> If you mean, "...needs to be calculated by the player each time a PC
> jumps...", then I would agree.

Well, just for record I didn't mix up whether the PC or the
player was doing the calculating, I just left it assumed...
 :-)
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 14:54:16 -0800
From: "Edward Swatschek" <edjs@mindlink.net>
Subject: Re: Temporal Aspects of Jump Drive

> From:          "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
> Date:          Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:29:00 -0500
> 
> Considering that in Traveller you cannot communicate faster than jump, and 
> considering that with relativity you can only be sure of passage of time 
> with relation to some observable phenomena (in short supply while isolated 
> "in the hole" of jumpspace)...
> 
> How does anyone know that it takes 168(plus or minus) hours to perform a 
> jump? The only clock you could check it against would be the subjective 
> clock on the jumping ship itself.

You can use pulsars to calculate the passage of time.  The rotation 
of a (solitary) pulsar decreases at a predictable rate, so, given 
suitable sensors and star charts including pulsar info, you can 
figure out your location in space and time.


- --
Edward Swatschek - edjs@mindlink.net

The only truly "intuitive" interface is the nipple. After that,
it's all learned. (Bruce Ediger, bediger@teal.csn.org, in
comp.os.linux.misc, on X interfaces.)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 09:59:22 +1100
From: Jason Anderson <midnight@kagi.com>
Subject: Re: blackeagle.com

>According to the InterNIC registration database, blackeagle.com
>is owned by Chameleon Eclectic.  Perhaps another case of
>domain highjacking.

They changed their address a month or two back. Its now
http://www.chameleon-eclectic.com.

Cheers,
Jason

- -------
Beyond Midnight Software                               <midnight@kagi.com>
                                      <http://www.vision.net.au/~midnight>

             If it's not on fire then it's a software problem.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 14:32:48 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: the magic jump reactor model (jump fuel for power)

Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:21:33 -0800, bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan
Macintosh)

Well, this has been covered so I'll will just recap for those unfamiliar
with the arguments against this.  (and ignoring there is nothing
"magic" about ram type situations where you can get highery throughput
by
sacrificing efficiency and required throughput...)

> If one assumes jump drives burn fuel for power - with some special high outpu
> low fuel efficiency reactor - the problem is it has to be *incredibly* powerful
> per unit mass (and even per unit of fuel); if we require the reactor to 
> produce all the power in an hour, it has to be significantly more
> powerful than filling the *whole ship* full of conventional reactors, 
> even at TL15 or 16 - otherwise someone, somewhere, will build a ship using
> conventional reactors (even just for Jump-1) and change the face of the universe.

Well, no.  It doesn't have to be that much more powerful. It only has to
be powerful enough that you can't do the same thing in the same space
with the other reactors.  And if using them requires the you burn all
your jump fuel in the time it takes to get one shot, and then you have
waste space carring bigger weapons (that will only ever be put to full
use for one shot only when you have fuel and only when you can waste
that
fuel) it isn't that much of a problem.

> Once you make it that much more efficient

I'm not sure what you mean.  Efficiency of all reactors would be
expected
to improve and so the trade off of using a high throughput reactor that
either runs at full tilt or not at all will stay the same.

However, if you don't care for this, you can always just invoke the
idea that the same effect the requires a lot of energy to jump also
makes it possible to pour a lot of energy into it.  (Because the
Lanthanum grid become a head sink right into jump space, or whatever).
This is no more of a stretch than things like jump bubble theories
and fits more seamlessly and plausibly with the existing background.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 17:06:31 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: [TTL] Airframe vs. Streamlined speeds.

At 03:10 PM 2/2/98 -0600, Andrew Akins wrote:
>It has come to my attention that Streamlined designs are faster than
>Airframe designs with the same acceleration - the thrust modifier for
>Streamlined is higher than Airframe.

Yep.  I did that deliberately.

>This at first glance seems wrong - but perhaps the aerodynamics of airfoils 
>cause this affect.  Anyone wanna comment, and confirm that this is true?

The definition of "airframe" hull is that it has aerodynamic lifting surfaces*
and control surfaces sufficient that it can actually fly in an atmosphere.  A 
"streamlined" hull doesn't.  The space shuttle orbiter is an example of a
hypersonic airframe hull.  An ICBM RV (reentry vehicle) is an example of
a hypersonic streamlined hull.

* I used "lifting surfaces" rather than "wings" so as not to overly constrain
  the designers imagination - it could be wings, a lifting body, or even a 
  flying wing design.


The maximum speed of an object in an atmosphere is when the available thrust force equals the drag force.  The thrust is determined by the vehicle's propulsion system.  Drag depends on many factors, including the shape of
the hull, the area of the hull, the density of the atmosphere it's flying
through, and the velocity it's travelling.

When comparing an airframe hull to a streamlined hull, the primary 
differences are in surface area and induced drag.  The surface area
difference is easy to see - if the two hulls have the same enclosed volume
and general shape, the hull with wings is going to have a larger area.  This
directly coresponds to more drag, and a lower maximum speed for the same
amount of thrust.

On top of that, wings generate a drag force (called "induced drag") as a
direct consequence of producing lift.  The more lift produced, the more
induced drag.  Different wing shapes are more or less "efficient" (that is,
produce more or less induced drag for the lift the create) but all wings 
cause induced drag (this is the "price" you pay for the lift).

Does that make sense?



wildstar@qrc.com
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It's Science Fiction, if, presuming technical competence on the part of
 the writer, he genuinely believes it could happen." --- John W. Campbell

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 16:14:51 -0700
From: "Christopher E. Webb" <cwebb@ctos.com>
Subject: Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator

First of all, let me say that I'm glad there is an interest in the project
I'm working on, even if a lot of the bandwidth right now is discussing
which OS is a better choice.  At least there isn't any major disagreement
over the content of the project.

For those of you questioning my choice of target OS, let me provide a
couple of explanations that may or may not justify my decision:

* I am not writing a Win95-specific app (initially) for the simple reason
that I do not have nor have access to a Win95 compiler.  I have a wedding
to pay for (my own), and I can not justify buying a Win95 compiler and the
accessory books that I would need to learn the compiler & API.

* I am not writing a Win 3.x application (for which I _do_ have a compiler)
because I am more interested in the background research and algorithms
needed to implement this application than in learning the API for Windows.
Between work, the wedding, school, and the limited time I have for my
hobbies, I have neither the time nor inclination to study the Windows API.
Yes, Win programming is significantly marketable; however, my experience
and interests lie in lower-level programming.

* The compiler I am using is a DOS port of the GNU compiler, an instance of
which exists on most (if not all) major OS's.  I am minimizing the amount
of platform-specific coding I am doing in order to minimize portability
issues (all of the platform-specific code is related to the graphics
package I am using).

* Since I am doing this project as a programming project for my degree, I
had no intention of charging for the software (ie, freeware).  However,
when I do get around to porting it over to Windows 9x, I am going to have
to get appropriate compiler & books, and I will (probably) consider
charging for it.

I want to thank everyone who has contributed to the discussion, and I ask
again that any comments or suggestions about the project be directed to me
or the TML.  When I have a web page up and running, I will post the URL and
make semi-regular notices to the TML about relevant changes.

Christopher E. Webb
cwebb@ctos.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 23:15:56 -0000
From: "Nicholas Wright" <xgr52@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Re: Jump Gates

/Anders Backman wrote:

>>Don't recall the T4 statement, but CT said you couldn't put jump drives
in
>>anything smaller, which may not necessarily mean they wouldn't survive
>>transit. It was also implied in CT book 2 that jump-capable message
>>torpedoes could exist.
>
>??? Where was that? They mentioned jumptorps in Leviathan supplement but
>that was made by Games Workshop methinks. Where in Starships (book 2) are
>jump torps mentioned?

Jump capable message torpedoes are on page 18.  6th line of the para on
Missiles

Sorry to shoot you down so but I get to spend my time proofing the CD-ROM
scans so I got to use the knowledge other wise it overloads my brain cell.

Nick Wright
Trav CD-ROM project

Shouldn t this thread be titled  Jump, Gates. Jump!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 23:25:14 -0000
From: "Nicholas Wright" <xgr52@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Re: TML archives on CD-ROM/And/or question of the week

"Reed DE (David)  at MSXSSC" writes:
>
>>Will you be sorting by category, date, or putting all messages in the
root?
>>That would be fun.  Heh.  Category wouldn't work real well, for those who
>>respond to more than one unrelated thread simultaneously with lame
segueways
>>(guilty! and you, too, Harold!).
>
>   Moi?  I really don't know what you mean...
>
>   Speaking of confusion, does anyone have any stories about players
>attempting to use translator programs during encounters with new aliens
and
>roll spectacular failure?  How do you handle this?
>
>Regards,
>
>Harold

Use the parable of the GGugvunts and the Vlhurgs.

".....I seem to be having this terrible problem with my lifestyle....."   A
Dent   


Nick Wright

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 15:31:22 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on jump drive

Mon, 2 Feb 1998 13:26:02 +0100 (MET), Hans Rancke-Madsen
<rancke@diku.dk>
> >>1)	ALL jump fuel was used BEFORE the ship entered jump space
> >> 	(Evidence: Drop tanks).

> >Which actualy argues that you can't be using it to created a
> >jump bubble....
 
> I think we need to agree on terminology here. I think "jump bubble" is
> being used for two different concepts. One is the bubble of normal space
> created by the jump grid and maintained (presumably) by the power plant.
> This is the 'jump bubble' that has been used for many years. The other is
> the comparatively new idea about a small bubble in jump space created to
> allow the ship to slip into jumpspace. I propose that we start calling
> this an 'access bubble' or 'access space'.

I'm not sure how this is different.  To me the difference was either
fuel is used to create a field by the grid to protect the ship and
the other is that some matter (which is arranged to have to be hydrogen)
is injected into jump space to form a bubble of normal matter that
protects it from jump space.  In that latter, if you want to have
drop tanks and such, you have invoke being able form some sort of
access to jump space the matter can transfered in, but come before
the actuall jump and the 10 diam requirement....

> >>3)	The capacitors of a jump drive held a comparatively small charge
> > 
> >I haven't seen enough to be convinced on this...
> 
> Just work out the size of a jump capacitor and the number of energy points
> that can be stored in them before they explode. Then work out how many EPs
> a power plant produces in four weeks using 1Pn% of fuel and compare it
> with the number of EPs you can produce in 40 minutes using 10Jn% of fuel.

I'm not sure where this is coming from or how you are getting how much
energy
goes into capacitors.  The numbers you mention are for CT and everything
I've
seen for capacitors is for MT (which seperates jump and main power
plants).

> >>4)	Even if all energy was applied from outside, you still needed jump
> >> 	fuel to initiate the jump.
> > 
> >This is based on one interpretation of one sentence (which never
> >explicitly
> >said you need more fuel after the energy needs were met and even if it
> >did, it doesn't prove that you simply don't need to generate energy
> >after the jump starts and you can't get anymore from the black globe).  

> Oh, I'll grant you that if this was the only objection to the "a jump
> drive is just a super-efficient/super-inefficient fusion plant"
> explanation, then I'd be the first to advocate just forgetting about
> this sentence. I just think that an explanation that also takes this
> into account is better than one that dosen't.

I don't think we are forgetting about a sentence.  I think we are
just refraining from reading dubious conclusion into it.

> Especially since allowing
> the energy to be supplied from outside opens up so many more problems
> (Like why does any ship on a commercial route ever use internal fuel
> tanks?)

Well, I agree that allowing energy to be supplied from outside is
problem (and I actually don't have a problem with any theory that
"drops" drop tanks since they open up a dangerous precident, though
one my consider it too late because they are too much a part of the
time line).  However, using jump fuel for energy doesn't have a problem
with that.

> I never claimed that the "access mass" explanation didn't contradict
> numerous statements made here and there. I just claim that it explains
> the odd features of a jump drive better than any other explanation I've
> seen. To use a concept someone else suggested a few days ago, while it
> contradicts canon, it agrees with Canon.

Well, I guess I just don't happen to agree.  I think the way that
clearly
explains the canon features of jump drive it that the hydrogen is used
for energy.
 
> >>5)	The hydrogen used for jump fuel had to be in pure form rather than
> >> 	as a compound like water or ammonia (Both of which gives you more
> >> 	hydrogen per volume).
> > 
> >Which is also true of the hydrogen being used for maneuver drives,
> >weapons, etc.  (clearly energy related uses.)
>
> Quite right. Better not to say that too loud, though. It opens up an
> entirely new can of worms. Why DO ships carry their power plant hydrogen
> as LHyd instead of as, say, water? It dosen't really make much sense,
> does it? Not as long as you assume that volume is the prime constraint
> on starship design. 

I had always assume that, at jump drive throughputs, you couldn't split
the water and prurify the hydrogen "on the fly" (and in fact, if you
look
at the purifier plants from MT, they can't convert fast enough to be
able to jump, esp. if you invoke the power being used in minutes or
seconds).  If you aren't going to use it before hand, then you need to
convert it before hand and so you need to be able to story the hydrogen
anyways.  And if you are going to store it, why not convert it before
you take it on board?

However, I don't know what kind of scrutiny this will stand up to.
Since no theory does a better job of answering that particular
question, I haven't tried to find out.

> Oh, I agree that it would be better if nothing needed to be explained
> away. I just don't agree that it is less artificial to explain away all
> the oddities of the traditional explanation than it is to explain away
> a small etymological oddity. 

Well, I'm not sure what you mean.  I think the etymological (is that
spelled
right?) oddity is fairly irrelevant and is very slim reed to base
_anything_
on.  I happent think that the fuel for energy is the simplest, most 
intuitive, and most consistent with canon approach.  I guess you 
don't agree....

> >Sure this can be done, but it leaves things that much harder to accept.

> Harder than to accept that a jump-drive type power plant wouldn't improve
> in efficiency from TL 9 to TL 15?

Not really, if fusion is a mature technology, it's efficiency won't
change
a lot.

> Harder than to explain why such a power
> plant is completely useless for any other application?

I have explained this.  Whether you disagree with them or not, I stand
by them...

> Harder than to
> explain why jump drive capacitors are so different from capacitors used
> in any other field?

I would just drop jump capitors altogether.  There is not need to
invoke them at all.

> >That is why I prefer to stick with things closer to the original.
> 
> Heh. So do I. I just think that my explanation is closer to the original
> (in spirit, that is) than yours.

So we don't agree.  I think it is the spirit of the original that
these new theories about jump bubbles violate the most.  To me
it just doesn't fit the treatment (both explicit and implied)
in CT and MT.  Unless you want to look for etymological oddities
the implication to the casual reader is that the hydrogen is
being used for fuel.

>Obviously it is possible for you. I just
> wish you would explain it to me so that I could believe it too.

Believe me, I try. :-)
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 14:43:05 -0800
From: Chris Griffen <cgriffen@cisco.com>
Subject: T4 Auction at eBay -- 2 days left!

I've got two T4 items listed at eBay (http://cayman.ebay.com/aw/index.html).

There are two days left, so make your bids right away.

==========================================================
Signed hardcover edition of Marc Miller's Traveller (T4). 
In NM condition. Buyer pays $3 shipping.

Available at: 
http://iguana.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5128603

Current bid only $10!
==========================================================

==========================================================
Marc Miller's Traveller RPG 5-book set in NM
The set includes 
  -  Milieu 0
  -  Psionic Institutes
  -  Fire, Fusion and Steel
  -  Emperor's Vehicles
  -  Naval Architect's Manual

Available at: 
http://iguana.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5129325

Current bid only $40 for *5* books!
==========================================================

If you're interested in obtaining T4 books at bargain prices, take a look!

Best,

Chris Griffen
- ------------------------------------------------------------
Christopher Griffen                      Cisco Systems, Inc.
NMBU Technical Publications              170 W. Tasman Dr.
Phone: (408) 527-7189                    San Jose, CA 95134
Fax: (408) 527-0452

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:45:52 -0800
From: "Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing" <electric-stitch@w-link.net>
Subject: Re: Jump Gates

>>>Don't recall the T4 statement, but CT said you couldn't put jump drives
>in
>>>anything smaller, which may not necessarily mean they wouldn't survive
>>>transit. It was also implied in CT book 2 that jump-capable message
>>>torpedoes could exist.
>>
>>??? Where was that? They mentioned jumptorps in Leviathan supplement but
>>that was made by Games Workshop methinks. Where in Starships (book 2) are
>>jump torps mentioned?
>
>Jump capable message torpedoes are on page 18.  6th line of the para on
>Missiles
>
>Sorry to shoot you down so but I get to spend my time proofing the CD-ROM
>scans so I got to use the knowledge other wise it overloads my brain cell.
>


What edition of Book 2 are you referring to? I have the second edition, 1981
version. It says nothing about jump torpedoes on page 18 or on any page I
can find. There are only descriptions of small craft and weaponry.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 98 18:05:52 -0700
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Jump drive and gravity wells.

On 1998-02-01 8:35 pm, Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote 
the following:

>There's a *big* problem. most planets and other bodies are *moving*.
>That means that there are going to be cases where they *might* be in
>the way, depending on *when* the ship "goes thru" that area.
>
>This *rapidly* gets out of hand. If you run into something "halfway",
>does that mean that you drop out of jump after only 3.5 days? If the
>jump takes the full week +/- then the body *won't* be in the way. 

The way I figure it, is that the trip itself is virtually instantaneous, 
no matter where you emerge.

It just takes a week for the jumpspace effect to wear off.

So you check "line of sight" gravity wells the moment you jump.

Glenn Hoppe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 16:52:42 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation

At 01:03 am 2/2/98 -0600, you wrote:
>>These things need big tables-unless your ship and its Hubble
class
>>telecope are willing to wait a year to determine relative v.
Of course
>>you could just aim for the pretty point of light and make up
the
>>difference once you miss by a few light minutes(or hours.)
>>
>>Who does these things?  The scouts...when they are not drunk.
>
>The same tables that contain the data on stars wouldn't be much
larger if it
>included orbital data for the planets.  The calculations
required would not
>take any perceptible time longer for your PC.

	The additional data can be very concise: absolute micrometer
accuracy isn't required. You need six elements to define an orbit
(plus possibly a reference time?) So, in binary format, it'd take
six or seven floating points. Call that 70 bytes, assuming
standard IEEE 80-bit floating point. In text format, a line or
two. In fact, one of the standard ways of distributing orbital
elements is the NORAD "Two-Line Element" or TLE ...

- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj
- --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he
establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 17:03:50 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: [TTL] Airframe vs. Streamlined speeds.

At 03:10 pm 2/2/98 -0600, you wrote:
>It has come to my attention that Streamlined designs are faster
than
>Airframe designs with the same acceleration - the thrust
modifier for
>Streamlined is higher than Airframe. This at first glance seems
wrong - but
>perhaps the aerodynamics of airfoils cause this affect.
>
>Anyone wanna comment, and confirm that this is true?

	Airframe hulls actually have greater drag (aka lift-induced drag
and surface drag) that tend to slow them down. Which is faster, a
long pencil with minimal surface area and frontal cross-section,
or a similar pencil with wings that increase the frontal
cross-section AND the surface area?  Assuming identical thrust,
of course.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj
- --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he
establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 16:59:49 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation

At 01:05 pm 2/2/98 +0000, you wrote:
>Orbital velocity - yes, important, especially if you have a
fuel-using
>manoeuvre drive. Intersecting your target's orbit with an 11
km/s velocity
>difference can ruin your whole day, as can not having the fuel
to match it.
>I think orbital velocities can be worked out from Kepler's Laws,
you might
>need stellar and planetary masses as well? [Help, guys, I'm
drowning here!]
>I think for an approximation density and start type could be
ignored...

	If you folks can wait till Monday, my references are at work and
I'm going on a business trip. The basics are fairly simple, and
I'll slap something together.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj
- --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he
establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 18:56:31 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Imperium Map Question

In a message dated 98-02-02 17:52:17 EST, you write:

<< 
 It is not the map that came with Deluxe Traveller (it was a Spinward
 marches map), I think it was a poster map for shops and not available as a
 product (I have one too).
 
  >>
The Imperium Map was a promotional item only. I don't think it was included in
any product (it was printed in Library Data (A-M)? as a two page spread.

I have several copies available.

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 00:13:44 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Attention Freelance Traveller Authors

The redesign of Freelance Traveller is proceeding apace, and we
have a site - and don't worry, we've managed to avoid the
necessity for clickthrough ads.  The new URL will be announced
once we're back up and running.

I would appreciate it if anyone who has material published in
Freelance Traveller, be it graphic, audio, or textual; review,
rule mod, RICE Paper, BARD Paper, et cetera; _please_ write up a
paragraph or two about yourself and send it to me, as an
"Author's Profile".  We will be going on-line whether we have
these or not - but I think it would be real nice if we _did_ have
them.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 17:11:26 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Jump Gates

At 11:15 pm 2/2/98 -0000, you wrote:
>>??? Where was that? They mentioned jumptorps in Leviathan
supplement but
>>that was made by Games Workshop methinks. Where in Starships
(book 2) are
>>jump torps mentioned?
>
>Jump capable message torpedoes are on page 18.  6th line of the
para on
>Missiles

	Do you have a different version of Book 2: Starships than I?
Page 18 has no paragraph on missiles, merely descriptions of the
various standard small craft types (Launch, Ship's Boat, Slow
Boat, Pinnace, Slow Pinnace, Cutter, Shuttle, and Fighter).
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj
- --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he
establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #92
*********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Monday, February 2 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 093



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator
Re: Canon Vargs
Re: Imperium Map Question
Re: TML archives on CD-ROM/And/or question of the week
Re: Canonisity (was Re: Thoughts on jump drives)
re: Jump and Gravity Wells
Re:  planet formation
re: science ships
Re: Jump Drive / Space / Time
Re: Imperium Map Question
Re: MegaTraveller Book Order
Re: Jumpgates
Re: [TTL] Airframe vs. Streamlined speeds.
Re:  planet formation
Re: Jump Drive / Space / Time
Re: Sophontophagism - was Brocolli - was +D-D Discussion (renamed)
Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation
Citizens of the TML-- now accepting URLs
re: Jump and Gravity Wells
Re: Citizens of the TML-- now accepting URLs

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 98 18:18:35 -0700
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Software Proposal -- star system generator

On 1998-01-29 9:08 am, Benjamin Barton <aramis3d@iinet.net.au> wrote the 
following:

>>Making it Win 95 "compatible" means that it is *incompatible* with
>>anything else. I can't run Win 95 on my current equipment. And I see
>>*lots* of folks who have their system crashing on a regular basis when
>>using Win 95.
>My mate have both MAC and Win95 and was top MAC expert in Perth, he said the
>Mac crashes just as much as win95.

The problem with a general statement like this, is that there are many 
different MacOS versions and configurations, and many different win95 
configurations.

For example, a PowerMac 8600/200 I'm using at work at the moment came 
with sys 7.5.5. It crashes every time I look at it funny, while my home 
6400/180 w/ sys 8.1 is as stable as a rock.

The two PC's at work running Win95 crash every now and then, with the one 
system crashing hard for no explicable reason. I'm going to update the 
system on the 8600, I suspect the crashing difficulties will go away.

I'm finding the problem with win95 (and most MS software) is that they 
don't *admit* their software is buggy. "Service updates" they call them, 
and they don't give important ones out for free...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 98 01:03 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Canon Vargs

Moin Daniel Ray Lane,

> > "J" are you sure, thats TL:15, is'nt it. 1kdt meson gun with 225GW.

	thanks to the one who, mentioned that this gun was from imperial
	production.

> Type J was the Meson Gun mounted on the Planet Class Cruiser
> 75,000 dt in Rebellion Sourcebook.

	when vargs call a 10kdt a heavy cruiser, and a 30kdt a battle
	cruiser - 75kdt should be a light battleship for them. The
	imperial call 75kdt a heavy cruiser, so there are psychological
	differnces in ship classes - imho the 900 vargs ship like the
	30kdt Aek Naz is beyond leadership capacities of most Vargs.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 98 18:46:35 -0700
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Imperium Map Question

On 1998-02-02 4:56 pm, Marc Miller <CardSharks@aol.com> wrote the 
following:

>The Imperium Map was a promotional item only. I don't think it was 
>included in
>any product (it was printed in Library Data (A-M)? as a two page spread.

It was printed in Library Data N-Z as well...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Feb 98 17:44:01 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: TML archives on CD-ROM/And/or question of the week

On 02/02/98 at 03:56 AM,  Kagehira@aol.com said:

>	How many people would be interested in a set of the TML archives on
>CD-ROM? This would be a relatively complete set (going all the way back to
>'88 or so).

I would be.

>	Would you be willing to pay about $10 for a copy (presuming it could be
>done)?

That sounds about right.

What does MPGN have to say about this?  Or *do* they get a say?

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 18:10:03 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Canonisity (was Re: Thoughts on jump drives)

 
>>then someone would make a statement adding a concept to canon.  One
> article
>>> in the JTAS doesn't make a thing canon.  Just like if the list decided
> 
> >< RANT ON >
> >I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with your position that the early Journal
> is
> >not automatically CT canon.  [1.] I think you dismiss its content too
> lightly. Unless
> >Marc were to state that something in it is incorrect (I don't forget that
> >this is his vision), [2.] I don't feel that one can pick and choose what
> they want
> >to accept as canon. Now I don't mean to imply by this that everyone has to

Their was an editorial in JTAS (CT era) that specifically stated
that everything within was not canon :-P

I can go home and dig through them, or Loren can tell you which one
(since he wrote the editorial, I belive). It was aimed at just the
questions raised about what appeared in JTAS. 

I *think* that it was in the one with the rules for nukes that
included the planet buster versions, but I could be wrong (it is
frightening how mush traveller I have in my head compared to real
stuff :-)

> >"official" traveller products. And as all GM's know, players just love to
> >pound on inconsistencies. But if you are going evoke canon then you have
> >to accept ALL the official products as canon. The Journal provided an
> >outlet for the originators to expand the traveller universe. Unlike this
> news
> >group, the Journal was a purchased product, put out by people intimately
> >connected with the game. That and the fact that there were few other
> sources
> >of info puts it in the category of CT canon.
> >< RANT OFF >
 
Nope. It was a place to explore *all* of traveller, which was always
something to customize. Canon is what is in the official history of
the published Imperium. Some rules have been canon, but personally
the rules only matter in the ways they would change
history--allowing FTL commo, for example would change huge chunks of
the history, so anything written about that would obviously be a
house rule.

- -Merrick
> <Reasoned reply mode ON>
> 1. I do not dismiss any of the JTAS matterial in any way.  Not the early
> stuff, and not the later stuff, all of it is good source matterial.
> However, to choose a piece from JTAS that flies in the face of the bulk of
> the matterial, is to do just what you acused me of claiming in 2., picking
> and choosing.
> 2. I agree, one cannot pick and choose.  However, I never said anything
> about picking and choosing.
> 
> >Now I know people are tired of this thread, but the issue is far reaching.
> >The hows and whys of "jump" influence a great deal of important
> > technology.  ...
> 
> No argument here.
> 
> >Can we have jump gates and jump torpedos, without changing the balance
> >of power that results from the fixed limitations of how fast information
> >can propagate across the Imperium? ...
> 
> If you make them the way I envisioned them, jump gates are no faster than
> jump ships, and if a torpedo can be 100 Td, then they are no different than
> a jump ship.  If they are less than 100 Td, then they are impossible, all of
> them would be lost in jump space.
> 
> >The issue of how to interpret the Annic
> >Nova is key. Does it represent a contradiction concerning the way jump
> works?
> >Or is there a way to simply work it into the way things are supposed to
> work?
> >I don't know, but I'm interested in thoughtful conjecture. Simple dismissal
> >because its inconvenient is hardly satisfying.
> 
> I am looking forward to your justification of the Annic Nova in light of the
> matterial already covered.  Or, perhapse we should just ask Marc if it's
> canon or not.  Altho, I believe he has already answered the question.
> 
> >It would be a lot more fun to consider why the technology for Jump gates
> might
> >not be popular, even if it were possible. For example, you might not want
> one
> >facing your world for strategic reasons. Think of what you could do with a
> >bunch lot of SDBs. You could build up a huge number on one side of the gate
> >and just overwhelm the planetary defenses.
> 
> We are obviously discussing two different jump gate technologies.  Tell me
> about yours and I'll tell you about mine. (Look for a post with the Subject:
> Jumpgates, take 1.
> 
> >I'm only one person with limited time to work on my universe. I'm
> interested
> >in what the groups thinks -- many heads are often more creative then one.
> 
> There is no doubt of that.  Let us reason together.  Thank you for your
> time.
> <Reasoned reply mode OFF>
> 
> Next time why don't read what I wrote and don't read anything into it that's
> not there?
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 18:10:04 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: Jump and Gravity Wells

>I was thinking about how to implement Marcs "you drop out of jump if
>there's a body in the way" rule.

>There's a *big* problem. most planets and other bodies are *moving*.
>That means that there are going to be cases where they *might* be in
>the way, depending on *when* the ship "goes thru" that area.

>This *rapidly* gets out of hand. If you run into something "halfway",
>does that mean that you drop out of jump after only 3.5 days? If the
>jump takes the full week +/- then the body *won't* be in the way.

On the other hand, there is a unique answer to the question "given
a straight line between my entrance and (planned) exit point, what's
the closest body present on that line one full week from now"? - one
always exits after one week, and the resultant path ends at the first
body it contacts. This sounds weird, but is easy to deal with.
ANd, in practice, all the bodies in the way will be at the 
destination...perhaps one only drops out of jump if you pass within
100 diamteres of a body *and* you've been in jumpspace for >6.5 
days.

(Although I do prefer the "jump exit point is fixed in space at
your initial velocity" model - as long as you match velocity with
your target before jumping even a day's error in jump duration will
keep you out of the 100d limit.)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 18:15:18 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re:  planet formation

Harold writes

>  Can anyone tell me if I should be junking this formula or not, or should
>I accept it as being reasonably accurate, and take it from there?  These
>are the same people that are using the formula of

Current theory is that the crucial variable is the initial temperature
where the planet is forming. If it's colder than 0 C, an ice core
can form rapidly (the most common "solid" in a protosolar nebula
will be nice), which gets big enough to directly accrete gas, resulting
in something that sucks up enough mass to be a gas giant. If the
temperature is higher, only rocks can accrete, which is slow. (Note
that temperatures in the protosolar nebula are higher than 
corresponding temperatures today, so that Mars was too warm to 
accrete ice.) I think the density formula you have and the thresholding
for gas giants is fairly coarse...Note that a gas giant can be 
stable (after formation) evan at quite high temperatures, like 51 Peg's
planet (surface temp might be as high as 1800 K.)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 18:27:06 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: science ships

There are also transient phenomenon - supernova, for example - and 
rare fixed phenomenon (black holes) that probably haven't been studied
completely, even in the late third I, especially as new tools (better
sensors, and black globes) become available; and there are studies of 
extragalactic phenomeona (quasars) with Longbow-like sensor arrays;
and unimaginable studies of new jump phenomena; and archeological
work...

There are still oceanographic/marine science vessels on Earth today,
for example, even though we've been crossing seas for millenia.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 18:52:52 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Jump Drive / Space / Time

At 03:00 AM 2/2/98 -0600, you wrote:
>From: Douglas E. Berry <dberry@hooked.net>

>>During WWII, when the Ameicans began bombing the Japanese home islands with
>>the high-flying B-29 Super Fortress,<snip> The pilots had discovered the
>>jetstream, the constant "river" of wind that wraps around the globe at
high >>altitude.

>This sounds like a good hook for scientists.  Determine the exact impurities
>that will give the same results each time.
>
>Of course, they never would.  If they did, it wouldn't be Traveller any
>more.
>
>Then after they found the proper fuel mixture, they would then have to
>figure out how to control the direction...

Exactly, and it's amazing how poorly understood science can bit your ass.
Some bright boy decided to send a flight of B-29s home form Japan with
light fuel loads, since everybody knew they'd get the wind assist to Iwo
Jima.  Guess what?  The Jet Stream had shifted north, and six Supe's went
down in the Pacific.
>
>
>
- --
+------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry         dberry@hooked.net   |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
+------------------------------------------------+
| "Only on the surface has the strategic missile |
| race reflected competition between the United  |
| States and the Soviet Union; the real struggle |
| is between the US Air Force and its archrival  |
| the US Navy."              -Samuel H. Day, Jr. |
+------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 18:48:46 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Imperium Map Question

>The Imperium Map was a promotional item only. I don't think it was
included >in any product (it was printed in Library Data (A-M)? as a two
page spread.
>
>I have several copies available.

That is the *one* item for Traveller that I don't have.  Sir, name the price.


- --
*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
)      Douglas E. Berry              dberry@hooked.net     (
(          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/index.html        )
)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(
( A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any   )
) invention in human history--with the possible exceptions (
( of handguns and tequila.                                 )
)         Mitch Ratcliffe, Technology Review, April 1992   (
*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 03:19:29 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: MegaTraveller Book Order

On Mon, 2 Feb 1998 08:23:22 EST, CardSharks@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 98-02-01 21:49:47 EST, you write:
> 
> << >Shipping to Canada is $5 for the whole order.
>  >
>  >
>  >Marc
>  
>  Maybe Marc should start runnign the IG shipping department?  Assuming that
>  he ships the goods, he'll be both faster _and_ cheaper...  :-/
>   >>
> 
> BTW. I apologise for answering that latest bit through the list. I neglected
> to look at the addrss before I hit reply.

That's quite all right.  I should have addressed *my* message directly to
you as well, instead of the list.



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mano au mano, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 20:43:32 -0600 (CST)
From: Don Stark <stark@glacier.nrlssc.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: Jumpgates

> 
> We are obviously discussing two different jump gate technologies.  Tell me
> about yours and I'll tell you about mine. (Look for a post with the Subject:
> Jumpgates, take 1.
> 
Good call.

My idea of a jump gate is strongly connected with how, from a CT perspective,
jump travel seems to work. There are three specific technologies from the old 
school that seem to be key:
1. LHyd drop tanks
2. artifact ships like the Annic Nova
3. use of black globes to charge jump engines.

I'd always seen 1 thru 3 and the original sources books 1-3 + highguard as 
implying that an enormous amount of energy, over a very short duration was 
needed to initiate the jump. This is pretty much the "jump-capacitor" style
of jump technology. Once initiated, the ship either simply continues until
it reaches the end of its trip and simply drops from j-space back to n-space, 
or else perhaps some sort of "maintenance" energy is needed to power some
sort of equipment to maintain the jump. While this was never specifically 
spelled out, it was a general consensus among the other players I'd met.

If you accept this sort of jump technology, then why couldn't one simply
construct a gateway or enclosing structure for ships to enter which pushes 
the them into j-space. A gateway setup is much like B5 technology. The 
second would work more like a sort of transporter where whatever is inside 
of some apparatus is moved to j-space. The big question is whether you need 
another jump gate, or some device to exit j-space, or do you just precipitate 
into n-space? Do you need some sort of maintenance drives to keep you going 
to your destination? 

I could envision huge open structure container ships, whose purpose it is to 
provide non-jump capable ships with the needed equipment to transfer them to 
some destination, with the advantage of the space usually being taken by jump 
drives and jump fuel going to extra cargo. Such a setup would be very 
expensive to construct and maintain. Therefore you'd only see it on the 
busiest of space lanes. Still it would potentially reduce the cost of 
transporting goods from planet to planet. Thus encouraging interstellar
commerce.

> If you make them the way I envisioned them, jump gates are no faster than
> jump ships, and if a torpedo can be 100 Td, then they are no different than
> a jump ship.  If they are less than 100 Td, then they are impossible, all of
> them would be lost in jump space.
> 
> I am looking forward to your justification of the Annic Nova in light of the
> matterial already covered.  Or, perhapse we should just ask Marc if it's
> canon or not.  Altho, I believe he has already answered the question.

I actually can't see how to all the different sources into agreement. Of 
course my bias is toward the older stuff. If Marc has already addressed this 
one, I must have missed the posting -- hardly surprising with the volume as
of late, and I apologize for adding to the confusion.

- -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
                                |                                   |
Don Stark                       |           ,/7_                    |
                                |          /   _`,                  |
Naval Research Lab, Code 7322   |         (.)\) \|_                 |
Bay St. Louis, MS 39529         |          0    /^~'                |
- --------------------------------|                                   |
e-mail: stark@nrlssc.navy.mil   |                                   |
- --------------------------------|                                   |
Phone: (228) 688-4151 work      |              ' )( `               |
       (228) 688-4759 fax       |   ~~~~~~~~~~~''  ``~~~~~~~~~~~~   |
- --------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 19:13:50 -0500
From: Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com>
Subject: Re: [TTL] Airframe vs. Streamlined speeds.

At 5:06 PM -0500 2/2/98, Derek Wildstar wrote:
>On top of that, wings generate a drag force (called "induced drag") as a
>direct consequence of producing lift.  The more lift produced, the more
>induced drag.  Different wing shapes are more or less "efficient" (that is,
>produce more or less induced drag for the lift the create) but all wings
>cause induced drag (this is the "price" you pay for the lift).

This induced drag varies with weight, so the top speed is weight-dependent.
An unloaded aircraft will have a higher speed than a loaded aircraft.
Not a big deal for a two-passenger fighter but significant for a cargo
plane or a passenger plane.  Also, fuel load is significant...

Bolie IV

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 22:42:31 -0500 (EST)
From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
Subject: Re:  planet formation

Hello Bruce,
  Thank you for your input regarding the formula I mentioned earlier.  As
a "crude" approximation, I am happy that I have it, as compared with out
having it.

  Based on a few trial runs with the really crude program I have written,
it generates gas giants easily within Habitable zones.  By means of
looking at the planets, I suspect that there are going to be two means by
which gas Giants will be formed (with the parameters of the program that
is, not reality!).  The first method will be those planets that are of a
high enough gravity within the habitable zones that they retain the gas
anyhow.  The sun's luminosity will be too low to burn off the Hydrogen,
and that will be that, despite the fact that the planet's core will be a
density of 5.5 or better.  However, using the Traveller 2300 AD rules for
multiplying the initial core of worlds that are found to be Gas Giant
material, the final density will drop rapidly.
  The second form of Gas Giants will be those planets with a high enough
density and large enough diameter to qualify as Ice rocks, thus growing
into Gas Giants - again requiring that the diameter be blown up beyond the
initial generation.  It is my hope that I can find some happy median that
I can folllow that will permit realistic enough planet formation within a
solar system without running into the problems that CT-T4 planetary
profiles seem to create.

  If you or anyone else knows what the outer limits for orbits should be,
or have a formula that I can use to figure out the outer limits, I would
be happy to use it <grin>.  Right now, I am looking at the relationship
between gravitational attraction along with centripedal momentum to see if
there is a "size" and "mass" limitation as the planets get further out.
Also, as per Acrete (I got my hands on that paper and wish I could figure
out how to write the code for it!), it would seem that the "density" of
the solar system decreases as you get further away from the star's center.
I will try to use the formula that is listed in the paper for the
decreasing magnitude of density as one gets further out...

  If people here have pet peeves that random generation fails to address
in other game systems, feel free to sprout off to me either on the list,
or personally, and if it seems easily enough done, I will be happy to
incorporate it.

  Well, time to bring this to a close...


    Respectfully,
      Hal

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Feb 98 17:47:45 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Jump Drive / Space / Time

On 02/02/98 at 03:00 AM,  "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> said:

>>Perhaps something similar is taking place when a ship jumps with bad fuel,
>>or inside a gravity well, or with poorly maintained engines.

>This sounds like a good hook for scientists.  Determine the exact
>impurities that will give the same results each time.

Not just the exact impurities, the exact mixtures, and (here's the killer)
the concentration and *positional location* of each of those impurities
micro-second by micro-second during the entire injection process. ;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Feb 98 17:50:27 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Sophontophagism - was Brocolli - was +D-D Discussion (renamed)

On 02/02/98 at 03:19 AM,  "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> said:

>>We don't *have* a term for "eating a member of another intelligent
>>species".

>Someone has suggested sophonophagism.  That sounds like as good a name as
>any for the eating of a sapient species.  Of course if you murdered them
>first, then there would be an additional charge of sophontocide.

Oh come on! I have enough trouble spelling cannibalism, how am I going to
remember (much less) spell sophonophagism. Shoot! I can't pronounce it! ;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 22:17:45 -0600
From: deadeye@ebicom.net
Subject: Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation

> >>These things need big tables-unless your ship and its Hubble
> class
> >>telecope are willing to wait a year to determine relative v.
 The calculations
> required would not
> >take any perceptible time longer for your PC.
> 
>         The additional data can be very concise: absolute micrometer
> accuracy isn't required. You need six elements to define an orbit
> (plus possibly a reference time?) So, in binary format, it'd take
> six or seven floating points. Call that 70 bytes, assuming
> standard IEEE 80-bit floating point. In text format, a line or
> two. In fact, one of the standard ways of distributing orbital
> elements is the NORAD "Two-Line Element" or TLE ...
> 


I agree with the idea of what you are both saying, but someone has to
map and calculate the numbers/vectors for 11,000 inhabited systems plus
how many other uncharted rock/systems, across 300+ parsecs of 3
dimensional space that sophonts like to occasionally go to.

This isn't one planet any more, but different star systems with lots of
individual worlds all doin their "thing."  Each body will have its own
"TLE" relative to Reference/HypGalCenter etc.  By big tables I simply
mean the tabulation of all this information, very much like shooting
celestial navigation with a sextant-you have huge books of data simply
to get the right ten minute increment of the single day for the
ascension/postion of the astronomical body to be used for navigation. 
(Or else it is wrong.)

I remember in old Trav you could buy a nav tape or cartidge for jumping
to a new system. 

The computer(in my game, with or without tape) can do this in seconds or
less, and to PC's and Vilani who have been doing this for eaons it is
second nature.  But if we were to see the tables, they would be BIG due
to the enormous volume of info.  Probably simple data, but big
nonetheless due to number of mapped elements.

(Fire away....:)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 04:31:17 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Citizens of the TML-- now accepting URLs

Hey,

Just another quick note to let people know that the "Citizens of the TML"
listing has now reached 60 members.  If you want your name added, updated,
or removed, drop me a note.

In addition, I would like to begin including the URLs of any Traveller
pages of the already listed individuals.  *Some* Traveller content is
necessary (not just a list of links) and the URL should point directly to
that page.

The URL to "Citizens of the TML" is:

http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero/Citizens.html



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mano au mano, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 22:27:37 +0000
From: "Bill Hopper" <whopper@pobox.com>
Subject: re: Jump and Gravity Wells

I agree with what Bruce writes below.  We have always played it that 
gravity wells only affected ships when they were _entering_ or 
_leaving_ jump space.

An analogy I use for jump space is that of an airplane (the ship) 
flying at 29,000 feet (jump space) over the mountains and valleys 
below (normal space gravity wells).  The critical times for the plane 
are takeoff and landing.  At these times, the terrain below has to be 
flat and even (minimal gravity) or the plane will "crash" (misjump or 
be precipitated out of jump space).  But, once the plane has achieved 
cruising altitude, the mountains (of gravity) below cannot reach or 
affect it.  I say cruising altitude is 29,000 feet because there is 
_one_ place in the world where a mountain reaches this high (Mt. 
Everest).  Everest might represent the extraordinary gravity well of 
a black hole, the one thing that might affect a ship even in jump 
space.

WKH

> From:          bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
> >I was thinking about how to implement Marcs "you drop out of jump if
> >there's a body in the way" rule.
> 
> >There's a *big* problem. most planets and other bodies are *moving*.
> >That means that there are going to be cases where they *might* be in
> >the way, depending on *when* the ship "goes thru" that area.
> 
> >This *rapidly* gets out of hand. If you run into something "halfway",
> >does that mean that you drop out of jump after only 3.5 days? If the
> >jump takes the full week +/- then the body *won't* be in the way.
> 
> On the other hand, there is a unique answer to the question "given
> a straight line between my entrance and (planned) exit point, what's
> the closest body present on that line one full week from now"? - one
> always exits after one week, and the resultant path ends at the first
> body it contacts. This sounds weird, but is easy to deal with.
> ANd, in practice, all the bodies in the way will be at the 
> destination...perhaps one only drops out of jump if you pass within
> 100 diamteres of a body *and* you've been in jumpspace for >6.5 
> days.
 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 04:41:03 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Citizens of the TML-- now accepting URLs

On Tue, 03 Feb 1998 04:31:17 GMT, I wrote:

> In addition, I would like to begin including the URLs of any Traveller
> pages of the already listed individuals.  *Some* Traveller content is
> necessary (not just a list of links) and the URL should point directly to
> that page.

Scratch that.  Traveller content is *not* "mandatory" and the link can go
directly to your main page.  "Citizens of the TML" isn't necessarily about
links to Traveller "stuff"-- it is about the people themselves.



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mano au mano, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #93
*********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Tuesday, February 3 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 094



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation
Re: Jump Gates
Re: [TTL] Airframe vs. Streamlined speeds.
Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation
Re: Imperium Map Question
Re: Jump and Gravity Wells
Re: Sophontophagism - was Brocolli - was +D-D Discussion (renamed)
Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation
Re: Jump drive and gravity wells.
Re: science ships
Re: Jump drive and gravity wells.
Re: sin in traveller?
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Thoughts on jump drives
Re: TML archives on CD-ROM/And/or question of the week

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Feb 98 18:10:49 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation

On 02/02/98 at 10:59 AM,  "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> said:

>>I think for an approximation density and start type could be ignored...

>He's right.  I don't know about Keplar's laws but this will work

>V = sqr(K * M / R)

>Where
>V is the orbital velocity
>K is the gravitational constant (6.67259 * 1e-8 cm^3/g s^2)
>M is the central mass
>R is the radius of the circular path

After I posted, I went back and looked at Scouts again. There *is* a
formula for orbital period there, and given the period and radius I can
figure the orbital velocity.

 R = Distance from primary in AU
 M = Mass in Solar Masses
 
  Period = (R^3 / M)^.5 * 31,557,600 seconds
  
  Circumference = 2 * (R*149,600,000) * Pi
  
  Orbital Velocity = (Circumference / Period) km/s

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 22:49:05 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Jump Gates

>>>>Don't recall the T4 statement, but CT said you couldn't put jump
>>>>drives in anything smaller, which may not necessarily mean they
>>>>wouldn't survive transit. It was also implied in CT book 2 that
>>>>jump-capable message torpedoes could exist.

FF&S2 p 12 2nd column last paragraph, under the heading of
"Minimum Size" says:
"The smallest hull that can safely enter jump space is 1,400
cubic meters."

>>>??? Where was that? They mentioned jumptorps in Leviathan
>>>supplement but that was made by Games Workshop methinks.
>>>Where in Starships (book 2) are jump torps mentioned?
>>
>>Jump capable message torpedoes are on page 18.  6th line of
>>the para on Missiles
>>
>>Sorry to shoot you down so but I get to spend my time proofing the CD-ROM
>>scans so I got to use the knowledge other wise it overloads my brain cell.


>What edition of Book 2 are you referring to? I have the second edition,
1981
>version. It says nothing about jump torpedoes on page 18 or on any page I
>can find. There are only descriptions of small craft and weaponry.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 00:14:11 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: [TTL] Airframe vs. Streamlined speeds.

Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com> wrote:
>Top speed is weight-dependent.  An unloaded aircraft will have a higher speed 
>than a loaded aircraft.  Also, fuel load is significant...

Quite correct on all points.  Since performance is computed from
acelleration (which is by definition a thrust:mass ratio), this is
already handled by the design sequences.

The designer has to figure out what the significant configurations are,
and work out the weights and corresponding speds.  I suggest using
unloaded, typical load, and fully-loaded (cargo or ordinance).



wildstar@qrc.com
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It's Science Fiction, if, presuming technical competence on the part of
 the writer, he genuinely believes it could happen." --- John W. Campbell

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 23:36:37 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation

>>>These things need big tables-unless your ship and its 
>>>Hubble class telecope are willing to wait a year to 
>>>determine relative v.  Of course you could just aim for 
>>>the pretty point of light and make up the difference 
>>>once you miss by a few light minutes(or hours.)
>>>
>>>Who does these things?  The scouts...when they are 
>>>not drunk.
>>
>>The same tables that contain the data on stars wouldn't 
>>be much larger if it included orbital data for the planets.  
>>The calculations required would not take any perceptible 
>>time longer for your PC.
>
>The additional data can be very concise: absolute micrometer
>accuracy isn't required. You need six elements to define an orbit
>(plus possibly a reference time?) So, in binary format, it'd take
>six or seven floating points. Call that 70 bytes, assuming
>standard IEEE 80-bit floating point. In text format, a line or
>two. In fact, one of the standard ways of distributing orbital
>elements is the NORAD "Two-Line Element" or TLE ...

Thank you Dave, you are correct.  The time referant is critical.  
It tells you when the data was collected, from the orbital data 
you can determine the exact position of any heavenly body.  
Perhaps there would be one more that being mass (especially 
needed for the star).

Even if a stellar system has a dozen planets and a couple of 
companions, that is still less than a kilobytes of data.  
The computer I'm typing on right now could hold the records 
of 4 million such systems.  And could actively manipulate 
all the data required to reach anything within 6 parsecs for 
the highest density regions known to or hypothesized by 
man.  As I have mentioned before, a business ring would 
be capable of handling the computations in addition to it's 
normal functions.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 00:39:21 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Imperium Map Question

In a message dated 98-02-02 22:06:02 EST, you write:

<< 
 That is the *one* item for Traveller that I don't have.  Sir, name the price.
 
  >>
I also have the joint GDW/DGP poster.

Send me a stamped 9x12 envelope and I'll send you one.

Marc Miller
1418 North Clinton Blvd
Bloomington IL 61701
USA

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 00:11:37 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Jump and Gravity Wells

>>I was thinking about how to implement Marcs "you drop out of
>>jump if there's a body in the way" rule.
>
>>There's a *big* problem. most planets and other bodies are
>>*moving*.  That means that there are going to be cases where
>>they *might* be in the way, depending on *when* the ship
>>"goes thru" that area.
>
>>This *rapidly* gets out of hand. If you run into something "halfway",
>>does that mean that you drop out of jump after only 3.5 days? If the
>>jump takes the full week +/- then the body *won't* be in the way.
>
>On the other hand, there is a unique answer to the question "given
>a straight line between my entrance and (planned) exit point, what's
>the closest body present on that line one full week from now"? - one
>always exits after one week, and the resultant path ends at the first
>body it contacts. This sounds weird, but is easy to deal with.
>ANd, in practice, all the bodies in the way will be at the
>destination...perhaps one only drops out of jump if you pass within
>100 diamteres of a body *and* you've been in jumpspace for >6.5
>days.
>
>(Although I do prefer the "jump exit point is fixed in space at
>your initial velocity" model - as long as you match velocity with
>your target before jumping even a day's error in jump duration will
>keep you out of the 100d limit.)

I plan to implement this new rule in my campaign.  I think that Bruce
has it right.  And as the previous poster points out those bodies are
moving.  The relative velocities of these bodies will be measured in
km per second.  Unless it's a star, how long will it take to move out
of the way?  Let's say we are talking about something like Jove.

100 diameters of a huge gas giant would be less than 5 light seconds across.
If it were travelling at a speed of in excess of 13 km/s.  So that it would
pass out of interruption range in just over 3 hours.  So, what's the big
deal, you wait in port or in orbit an additional 3 hours before you start
your run for the jump point.

Now, I'll grant you that if it's a star like Sol and you don't have the fuel
to skirt it, you could be stuck in port or orbit for over 18 weeks.  With
that kind of delay, it would be worth you time (and credits) to make
arrangements for mid-flight refueling.

Besides, the only time that my characters will be precipitated somewhere
other than their destination will be if they make a misjump (hmm, if the
navigator blows his roll, instead of jumping long, perhaps...  never mind)
or if I want them to go someplace that no one knows about.  There are
endless adventure hooks that come with this complication.

Don't look at the problems, look at the opportunities.  :-)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 00:28:56 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Sophontophagism - was Brocolli - was +D-D Discussion (renamed)

Eris wrote:


>On 02/02/98 at 03:19 AM,  "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> said:
>
>>Someone has suggested sophonophagism.  That sounds like as good
>>a name as any for the eating of a sapient species.  Of course if you
>>murdered them first, then there would be an additional charge of
>>sophontocide.
>
>Oh come on! I have enough trouble spelling cannibalism, how am I going to
>remember (much less) spell sophonophagism. Shoot! I can't pronounce it! ;->
>
Hey Eris, you could do as I did, cut and paste.  :-)

OBTW, I just realized that killing a [insert the name of your least favorite
species of alien here] might not be murder.  It would depend on the laws
in force where the dead was done.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 00:40:10 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation

Deadeye wrote:


>>>>These things need big tables-unless your ship and its 
>>>>Hubble class telecope are willing to wait a year to 
>>>>determine relative v.

>>>The calculations required would not
>>>take any perceptible time longer for your PC.
>> 
>>         The additional data can be very concise: absolute micrometer
>> accuracy isn't required. You need six elements to define an orbit
>> (plus possibly a reference time?) So, in binary format, it'd take
>> six or seven floating points. Call that 70 bytes, assuming
>> standard IEEE 80-bit floating point. In text format, a line or
>> two. In fact, one of the standard ways of distributing orbital
>> elements is the NORAD "Two-Line Element" or TLE ...
>> 
>I agree with the idea of what you are both saying, but someone has to
>map and calculate the numbers/vectors for 11,000 inhabited systems plus
>how many other uncharted rock/systems, across 300+ parsecs of 3
>dimensional space that sophonts like to occasionally go to.
>
Hey man, that's what the ISS is for.  How do you think all those 
scouts earn thier living?

>This isn't one planet any more, but different star systems with lots of
>individual worlds all doin their "thing."  Each body will have its own
>"TLE" relative to Reference/HypGalCenter etc.  By big tables I simply
>mean the tabulation of all this information, very much like shooting
>celestial navigation with a sextant-you have huge books of data simply
>to get the right ten minute increment of the single day for the
>ascension/postion of the astronomical body to be used for navigation. 
>(Or else it is wrong.)
>
>I remember in old Trav you could buy a nav tape or cartidge for jumping
>to a new system. 
>
>The computer(in my game, with or without tape) can do this in seconds or
>less, and to PC's and Vilani who have been doing this for eaons it is
>second nature.  But if we were to see the tables, they would be BIG due
>to the enormous volume of info.  Probably simple data, but big
>nonetheless due to number of mapped elements.

No arguments there.  One of the reasons I keep mentioning the 
business ring as being capable of doing the calculations, is that 
I envision a spacers ring that automatically deluges the collected 
data on the most recent jumps to all other spacer's rings while 
getting the data they have.  Then when the captain, pilot, 
navigator, etc. gets back to the ship, it automatically downloads 
the information.

But then a nasty competitor might feed you faulty data.  But of 
course, that would probably be against the law.  Hooks, hooks, 
hooks, everywhere I look are hooks.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Feb 98 21:32:08 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Jump drive and gravity wells.

On 02/02/98 at 06:05 PM,  Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca> said:

>>This *rapidly* gets out of hand. If you run into something "halfway",
>>does that mean that you drop out of jump after only 3.5 days? If the
>>jump takes the full week +/- then the body *won't* be in the way. 

>The way I figure it, is that the trip itself is virtually instantaneous, 
>no matter where you emerge.

>It just takes a week for the jumpspace effect to wear off.

That's the way I do jump too. The time it takes for a ship to change
position is instantaneous, but it takes roughly a week for the ship to
emerge. The roughly relates to the purity of the injection mass and the
vagries of jump space.

>So you check "line of sight" gravity wells the moment you jump.

Right, but except for jumping *though* the star at either end, the odds of
intersecting something on the way are slim and none, and slim just left
town.  

Seriously, let's say you jump though five hexes each with a star on the way
to a sixth, each of those hexes is (even *flat* hexes) is over 8 light
years in area! The odds of any of these five stars' 100 diameter limit's
overlaping are *very* short.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 01:51:35 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: science ships

bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh) wrote:

>There are also transient phenomenon - supernova, for example - and
>rare fixed phenomenon (black holes) that probably haven't been studied
>completely, even in the late third I, especially as new tools (better
>sensors, and black globes) become available; and there are studies of
>extragalactic phenomeona (quasars) with Longbow-like sensor arrays;
>and unimaginable studies of new jump phenomena; and archeological
>work...

     Are there any rules for any of these?  Are there any black holes and/or
nebulas in Charted Space?  I know planetary survey would be big.  The basic
TNE rules gimme enough detail for this, but what about the other?
     Since you're the resident sensors guru, what is the science ship going to
look like?  Lots of sensor redundancy?  How much is too much?  Like the lab
ship?  What is the "optimum" size and sensors layout for a science ship in
FFS2, and using your sensor rules?

>There are still oceanographic/marine science vessels on Earth today,
>for example, even though we've been crossing seas for millenia.

Good point.

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 00:11:23 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Jump drive and gravity wells.

At 09:32 pm 2/2/98 -0600, you wrote:
>On 02/02/98 at 06:05 PM,  Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
said:
>
>>>This *rapidly* gets out of hand. If you run into something
"halfway",
>>>does that mean that you drop out of jump after only 3.5 days?
If the
>>>jump takes the full week +/- then the body *won't* be in the
way. 

	It's even worse ... how do you figure out if you ran into it or
not? It's 100 diameter limit may not cross a straight line
between you and your destination right now, but maybe in 4 days
it will. So, do you assume each day your "jump space position"
corresponds to 1/7 the distance from source to target world? Do
you immediately enter jump space, reach the destination area, and
"hang around" in jump space for 7 days waiting to precipitate
out? Or is it something more complex?

	I don't think this idea's going to work out very well ...
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj
- --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he
establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 22:05:46 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: sin in traveller?

In mail you write:

>>BTW, smuggling any agricultural products past quarantine on such a
>>world would get you in *big* trouble. They don't want any pests
>>introduced by accident. Here on earth folks get upset enough about the
>>possibility of destroying cash crops. Think how upset they'll get when
>>it's the *life support* system at stake. :-)
>
> Look at the publics opinion about smoking today. Think about how people
> living in a cramped biodome with badly maintaned LS equipment. Yes, there
> could be a death sentence on smoking in certain places and this could be a
> very nice plotline for players who are careless.

Actually, this brings up a detail often overlooked in running players
thru artificial environments. The will be air fees, just like you have
to pay for water in current cities. 

For visitors, it'll be included in ticket fees or hotel fees. For
residents, it'll be some sort of periodic charge *payable in advance*. 

Smoking won't necessarily get you lynched. But if your air tag doesn't
show the extra sticker, you are going to get hit with a *hefty* fine.

"Public" facilities may have "free" air, but "community" areas will
require an air tag or other proof of payment. 

"Public" would be something like customs, the port offices, and maybe
the passages between them and the hotels. "Community" would be any
other non-private areas.

One cute item is having a drunk character getting "rolled" for his air
tag. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 22:34:16 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

In mail you write:

> In a message dated 98-02-02 01:41:06 EST, you write:
>
> << >
>  >This, and other complications, are solved by making a "standing" rather
>  than "running" jump.
>   >>
>
> I think the idea was that a running jump does full acceleration to jump point
> and jumps, while a standing jump implies accelerating to midpoint, and then
> decelerating to jump point.

And it should be possible to take advantage of the planet's velocity by
choosing the right departure direction. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 22:38:26 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation

In mail you write:

>         The additional data can be very concise: absolute micrometer
> accuracy isn't required. You need six elements to define an orbit
> (plus possibly a reference time?) So, in binary format, it'd take
> six or seven floating points. Call that 70 bytes, assuming
> standard IEEE 80-bit floating point. In text format, a line or
> two. In fact, one of the standard ways of distributing orbital
> elements is the NORAD "Two-Line Element" or TLE ...

Actually, if we restrict things to 2-d, you only need 4 or 5 elements.

Semi-major axis of orbit	(size)
eccentricity			(shape)
longitude of periapsis		(orientation)
time of periapsis passage	(location in orbit)

Or:

X co-ordinate
X velocity
Y co-ordinate
Y vector
Time

The "missing" elements in the first set are:

Inclination			(tilt of orbit)
long. of ascending node		(orientation)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 22:51:26 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

In mail you write:

> Why not have the misjump formula as nD6*6 - where n is the JD# of the
> ship. That way you have a chance of a 6 to 216 parsec. Now that would
> really put (my) the crew out there - almost 7 sectors away.  WoW !!!

And then the ref needs to have *maps* of those seven sectors... :-(

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 08:45:38 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on jump drives

David P. Summers writes:
 
>Mon, 2 Feb 1998 13:26:02 +0100 (MET), Hans Rancke-Madsen

>>I think we need to agree on terminology here. I think "jump bubble" is
>>being used for two different concepts. One is the bubble of normal space
>>created by the jump grid and maintained (presumably) by the power plant.
>>This is the 'jump bubble' that has been used for many years. The other is
>>the comparatively new idea about a small bubble in jump space created to
>>allow the ship to slip into jumpspace. I propose that we start calling
>>this an 'access bubble' or 'access space'.
> 
>I'm not sure how this is different.

Let me try an analogy. Take an unprotected man and throw him into the
ocean. He will drown. Now build a small submarine around him. He will
be able to survive inside the submarine for a time regardless of whether
you throw him into the water or not. In my concept the jump bubble that
is created electromagnetically along the jump grid is equivalent to the
shell of the submarine (Though the analogy is not perfect because the
formation of the jump bubble precipitates the ship into jump space). As
long as that is maintained the spaceship can survive in jumpspace. Without
it it cannot.

Now take this submarine and throw it into the ocean from a great height. If
it goes to fast it will be smashed as it reaches the surface because at
those velocities the water will be like steel for a fraction of a second.
In my concept jumpspace is like that: much too dense for a ship to enter
even if you can open a hole into it. But if you inject a quantity of
hydrogen first, you create a small area of jumpspace where the density is
temporarily low enough for a ship to slip into it. Once the ship is
inside jumpspace this is no longer necessary because the ship is already
"under" the surface, ie. inside jumpspace.

>To me the difference was either fuel is used to create a field by the grid
>to protect the ship

Now, that can't be, because all the fuel is used before the ship enters
jumpspace, so how can you maintain the bubble? I've always assumed that
the energy from the fuel was used to open the hole into jumpspace and
that the power plant maintained the jump bubble.

>>>>3)	The capacitors of a jump drive held a comparatively small charge
>>> 
>>>I haven't seen enough to be convinced on this...
>> 
>>Just work out the size of a jump capacitor and the number of energy points
>>that can be stored in them before they explode. Then work out how many EPs
>>a power plant produces in four weeks using 1Pn% of fuel and compare it
>>with the number of EPs you can produce in 40 minutes using 10Jn% of fuel.
> 
>I'm not sure where this is coming from or how you are getting how much
>energy goes into capacitors.  The numbers you mention are for CT and
>everything I've seen for capacitors is for MT (which seperates jump and
>main power plants).

Check the rules for black globes and for breaking off combat. It specifies
how much of a jump drive is capacitors, how much extra capacitors cost, and
how many energy points a ton of capacitor can hold. It's CT all right.

>>>>4)	Even if all energy was applied from outside, you still needed jump
>>>> 	fuel to initiate the jump.
>>> 
>>>This is based on one interpretation of one sentence (which never
>>>explicitly said you need more fuel after the energy needs were met

Yes it does. Check it yourself. If your capacitors are fully charged by
black globe absorbtion you can jump, _provided_ you have the required
fuel.

>>>and even if it did, it doesn't prove that you simply don't need to
>>>generate energy after the jump starts and you can't get anymore from
>>>the black globe).  

Except that in a normal jump you can't get any more energy out of the
jump fuel after the jump starts because all the fuel is used up before
the jump starts as evidenced by the rules for drop tanks.

>>>Which is also true of the hydrogen being used for maneuver drives,
>>>weapons, etc.  (clearly energy related uses.)
>>
>>Quite right. Better not to say that too loud, though. It opens up an
>>entirely new can of worms. Why DO ships carry their power plant hydrogen
>>as LHyd instead of as, say, water? It dosen't really make much sense,
>>does it? Not as long as you assume that volume is the prime constraint
>>on starship design. 
> 
>I had always assume that, at jump drive throughputs, you couldn't split
>the water and purify the hydrogen "on the fly" (and in fact, if you
>look at the purifier plants from MT, they can't convert fast enough to be
>able to jump, esp. if you invoke the power being used in minutes or
>seconds).

Quite right. But they are plenty good enough for other applications. So why
waste volume on hydrogen for power plant fuel?

>>>Sure this can be done, but it leaves things that much harder to accept.
> 
>>Harder than to accept that a jump-drive type power plant wouldn't improve
>>in efficiency from TL 9 to TL 15?
> 
>Not really, if fusion is a mature technology, it's efficiency won't
>change a lot.

Except that other kinds of fusion power plants DO improve (significantly)
from TL 9 to TL 15.

>>Harder than to
>>explain why jump drive capacitors are so different from capacitors used
>>in any other field?
> 
>I would just drop jump capitors altogether.  There is not need to
>invoke them at all.

But jump capacitors are just as much part of canon -- CT canon at that --
as the jump drive as a special kind of power plant. In fact, and I know
that I may be completely wrong here, I'm not at all sure that the whole
jump drive as a special kind of power plant explanation isn't a MT
phenomenon. Was it ever stated anywhere in CT that the jump drive
burned up all the jump fuel? Or did it just say that it used all the
fuel? I'll have to have a look through my little black books when I
get home...
 
Anyway, that was a side track. What I started to say was that jump
capacitors are canon and when you advocate dropping them you are
violating the spirit of the original.

>>>That is why I prefer to stick with things closer to the original.
>> 
>>Heh. So do I. I just think that my explanation is closer to the original
>>(in spirit, that is) than yours.
> 
>So we don't agree.  I think it is the spirit of the original that
>these new theories about jump bubbles violate the most. 

It's not a theory. It's a handwave. Whether you agree or not, some of us
believe that the 'special kind of power plant jump drive' involves some
major oddities to say the least. We don't believe it could work the way
it is described in CT, nor that if it did work that way it could do so
without at the same time having other applications. We also believe that
the idea that much of the "fuel" is used for some other purpose will
explain away all the oddities and leave the jump drive functioning
_exactly_ as described in CT _without_ needing any other embarrasing
handwaves. As far as I am concerned we are trying to uphold the original
spirit by fixing a crack in the game universe. 

>To me it just doesn't fit the treatment (both explicit and implied)
>in CT and MT.  Unless you want to look for etymological oddities
>the implication to the casual reader is that the hydrogen is
>being used for fuel.

And so it is. Some of it. A small part of it. A few percent of it ;-)
 
And I defy you to find three quotes from the background material (as
opposed to the rule books) where it is explicitly stated that all the
jump fuel is converted to energy.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 07:55:00 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: TML archives on CD-ROM/And/or question of the week

On Mon, 2 Feb 1998 17:41:55 -0500 (EST), Harold D. Hale wrote:

> "Reed DE (David)  at MSXSSC" writes:
> 
> >Will you be sorting by category, date, or putting all messages in the root?
> >That would be fun.  Heh.  Category wouldn't work real well, for those who
> >respond to more than one unrelated thread simultaneously with lame segueways
> >(guilty! and you, too, Harold!).
> 
>    Moi?  I really don't know what you mean...
> 
>    Speaking of confusion, does anyone have any stories about players
> attempting to use translator programs during encounters with new aliens and
> roll spectacular failure?  How do you handle this?

Sex.  It always boils down to sex.

"What did ?it? say, exactly?"

"Something about bark mulch, cooking oil, and a whole lotta luv..."

"!?!"

:)



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mano au mano, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #94
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Tuesday, February 3 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 095



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Jump drive and gravity wells.
Re: Thought on jump drive
Re: Sophontophagism
Re: Jump drive and gravity wells.
Re: TML archives on CD-ROM/And/or question of the week
Re: Imperium Map Question
RE: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation
Re: science ships?
Re: Temporal Aspects of Jump Drive
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Air Tax was Sin in Traveller
Thoughts on Jump Drive
OT: D&D Movie
Jump Gates
Re: Jump drive and gravity wells.
Fusion plus? - Article on Cold Fusion LONGISH
Re: Sophontophagism - was Brocolli
OS problems was Re: Software Proposal OFF TOPIC
Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Justice...sort of...at last...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 07:55:01 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Jump drive and gravity wells.

On Sun, 1 Feb 1998 19:35:45 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> I was thinking about how to implement Marcs "you drop out of jump if
> there's a body in the way" rule.
> 
> There's a *big* problem. most planets and other bodies are *moving*.
> That means that there are going to be cases where they *might* be in
> the way, depending on *when* the ship "goes thru" that area.
> 
> This *rapidly* gets out of hand. If you run into something "halfway",
> does that mean that you drop out of jump after only 3.5 days? If the
> jump takes the full week +/- then the body *won't* be in the way. 
> 
> I think Marc needs to reconsider this. 
> 
> I can see getting "kicked back" to the 100 diameter limit if your
> emergence point would be inside. That can be a matter of the gravity
> well "pushing" on the *exit point*. 
> 
> But if you can get affected in mid jump it just gets *too* weird, or at
> least requires *way* to much figuring.

IIRC, canon never stated anything about jump travel taking place in a
straight line, never mind one identical to N-Space.  Or did I miss
something?



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mano au mano, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 09:07:05 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Thought on jump drive

Don Stark wirtes:
>
>Now I know people are tired of this thread, but the issue is far reaching.
>The hows and whys of "jump" influence a great deal of important technology. 
>Can we have jump gates and jump torpedos, without changing the balance
>of power that results from the fixed limitations of how fast information
>can propagate across the Imperium?

Jump gates (or Jump Projectors as I called them when I had the idea some
years back) will eventually change the economic face of the Imperium. You
can either assume that they are not practical at all (If you set the time
before you can use a jump drive again once it has been used to about a
week you can reduce them to the usefulness of any other kind of drop tank
arrangement) or you can assume that they don't become possible before the
capacitors that makes drop tanks possible are invented in the late 11th
Century and that the practical wrinkles aren't ironed out before the
Rebellion starts.

Jump torpedoes are possible without disrupting canon history if you assume
that they cost something around that of an equivalent jump drive and have
a 1 chance in 36 of failing that manned ships don't have.

>The issue of how to interpret the Annic  Nova is key. Does it represent a
>contradiction concerning the way jump works? Or is there a way to simply
>work it into the way things are supposed to work?

The simplest solution is to invoke the Ancients. Perhaps the Annic Nova
had one of those nifty pocket universes brim full of hydrogen that is
mentioned in _Secret of the Ancients_.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 09:24:32 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Sophontophagism

Richard A. Flores writes:
>OBTW, I just realized that killing a [insert the name of your least favorite
>species of alien here] might not be murder.  It would depend on the laws
>in force where the dead was done.

Hmm. That reminds me of a sig. quote I made up some years ago for a special
occasion that you may find interesting:

        "The Court rejects the contention of the defense,  that
        since the offense took place outside the borders of the
        Imperium  the victims were not protected beings.  It is
        the opinion of the Court that the qualification 'within
        the Imperial borders' goes to the status as to citizen-
        ship,  not  to the status as protected being;  and that
        the  unwarranted  termination of any sentient lifeform,
        _anywhere_, is murder."
                Lord High Justiciar Bernardine delaCourt,
                Emperor vs. Croft,  Merganser,  le Olsen,
                 Scott, Scott and Tagadashi, year 24.




      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        'There was a man,'  remarked Captain Eliot, 'who was sentenced
    to death for stealing a horse from a common. He said to the judge,
    that  he  thought it hard to be hanged for stealing a horse from a
    common  and  the  judge  answered,  "You  are not to be hanged for
    stealing  a  horse  from  a common,  but that others may not steal
    horses from commons." '
        'And do you find,' asked Stephen, 'that in fact horses are not
    daily stolen from commons? You do not!'

                        --- "The Mauritius Command" by Patrick O'Brian

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 09:13:32 GMT
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Jump drive and gravity wells.

> This *rapidly* gets out of hand. If you run into something "halfway",
> does that mean that you drop out of jump after only 3.5 days? If the
> jump takes the full week +/- then the body *won't* be in the way. 

It all comes down to handwaving (as usual :-).

<handwave = ON>

Each jumps space (J-1, J-2, J-3 etc) is a different dimension, and when 
you enter a given jump space it is is not possible to interact with 
systems that lie in a lower or higher jump space.  Because your 
departure point is always in the "current" jump space, it is possible 
to perform micro-jumps (in-system jumps) with any jump engine, although 
most will use J-1 to conserve fuel.

For hyperspace cartography it is convenient to show valid destination 
systems on a 2-D realspace grid; howoever the behavior of jumps space 
is more complex than that.  One simplified explanation is to use the 
analogy of the firing and ballistic flight of a bullet in a gravity 
well.

Enter jump space = fire bullet
distance travelled depends on "angle" at start of ballistic flight
1 week jump time = time for bullet to rise and fall to the ground
exit jump space = bullet hits the ground.

The analogy is inexact, as in jump space the journey time is not 
influenced by the "angle of entry" (and clearly is for the bullet), but 
this is one of several "ballistic models" used by the Tri-V popular 
science programs across the 3I.

One of the reasons that these "ballistic models" are popular is that it 
is easy to visualise the bullet hitting the ground as the end of the 
journey through hyperspace.  The 100-diameter limit is often depicted 
in these analogies as a body of water ... you can hit "land" anywhere 
(i.e. come out of jump a long way from a gravity well), but the "land" 
close to a significant mass is "below water level", and it is thus 
difficult to exit jump space closer than 100 diameters.  The analogy is 
also used to explain why it is possible (and risky) to enter jumps 
space from "below the water".

Unfortunately, the real nature of jump space is much more complex than 
this and the ballistic analogies fail in many key areas.  The main 
purpose of such analogies is to "demystify" hyperspace travel and so 
make it more acceptable and accessible.

<handwave = OFF>

Simon

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 01:32:29 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: TML archives on CD-ROM/And/or question of the week

>        Would you be willing to pay about $10 for a copy (presuming it could be
> >done)?
> 
> That sounds about right.
> 
> What does MPGN have to say about this?  Or *do* they get a say?
> 
> Eris
> -- 

I'll pay 10 dollars too.  I would love to have all this stuff on a CD
Archive.  I'd been saing the choice parts to my Zip Drive.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 01:56:29 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Imperium Map Question

> The Imperium Map was a promotional item only. I don't think it was included in
> any product (it was printed in Library Data (A-M)? as a two page spread.
> 
> I have several copies available.
> 
> Marc Miller
> 


Could I get a copy of that?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 00:35:46 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: RE: Thoughts on Jump Drive

"Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu> wrote:

>Economics vs safety - the builders of the Titanic never thought they'd need
>all those lifeboats.

The builders of the Titanic provided more lifeboat places than they were
legally required to (by about 200 places). They were proud of this fact and
of all the modern safety features they had installed. One of the big
impacts of the sinking was the legal requirement that vessels carry
sufficient lifeboat places for all crew and passengers.
(Source: "A night to remember", Walter Lord, Penguin, ISBN 0-14-004757-3)

Interestingly, the Titanic's basic design still complies with the Solas
(Safety of Life at Sea) Standards adopted following the sinking.
(Source: Professional Engineering "Raising Questions" p14 28 Jan 98, Vol
11, No 2)

Dom

PS Can you switch off that Winmail.dat file on your email - it really
messes the Digest up.
There are a number of the servants of the Evil Empire here who can tell you
how. I believe the easy solution is to sell your Windows machine and buy a
Mac with Eudora and Netscape. However, the servants of the NTChrist can
probably tell you how to do it in your software. ;-)

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 05:35:52 -0600
From: deadeye@ebicom.net
Subject: Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation

> But then a nasty competitor might feed you faulty data.  But of
> course, that would probably be against the law.  Hooks, hooks,
> hooks, everywhere I look are hooks.


Yeah, really nice hook.  Some sleazy guy sells the PC's "bargain
basement"  info in 1105.  Just happens to be from 1st survey.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 23:50:40 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: science ships?

In mail you write:

>>    Is there any need for a pure Science ship in Traveller?  Are there the
>>"stellar anamolies" so popular in Star Trek?  What about nebulas?  Are there
>>any in Traveller?  Any rules for em, i mean...  I should imagine people 
> would
>>be studying stars and stuff but by the time of the 3I there's probably an
>>awful lot known about them and thus less need to research.
>
> Wrong, whenever something is studied each answer to a problem leads to more
> questions. 3I probably knows HUGE amounts about stars that we don't but
> that is nothing compared to what the 3I don't know about them (and we don't
> even know that we don't know).

Also, Astronomy is an *observational* science. So while better sensors
lead to new discoveries, time alone just supplies more data. That still
means that they'll be arguing theories... :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 00:06:55 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Temporal Aspects of Jump Drive

In mail you write:

> Here's a thought:
>
> Considering that in Traveller you cannot communicate faster than jump, and 
> considering that with relativity you can only be sure of passage of time 
> with relation to some observable phenomena (in short supply while isolated 
> "in the hole" of jumpspace)...
>
> How does anyone know that it takes 168(plus or minus) hours to perform a 
> jump? The only clock you could check it against would be the subjective 
> clock on the jumping ship itself.

Easy. You can synchronize clkocks across interstellar distance with
maser or laser comm. It just takes a decade or two. So the scientists
send a signal over the link when the ship jumps, and the scierntists at
the other end send a signal back when the ship arrives. Several years
later the signals arrive and are compared with local clock data.

(It's a bit more complex than this, but it *is* possible to measure the
time between departure and arrival.)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 23:22:31 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

In mail you write:

> Excuse me while I redesign my trading ships with enough emergency low 
> berths for everyone...it might be a long wait in that empty hex. They'll 
> hear our distress beacon in what - 18 months?

Try 39 months. One parsec is 3.26 light years, of 39 and a fraction
light months. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 11:28:13 -0000
From: "Del Jones" <dojones@whitestar.u-net.com>
Subject: Air Tax was Sin in Traveller

Leonard Ericson wrote in TD #94
<<Actually, this brings up a detail often overlooked in running players
thru artificial environments. The will be air fees, just like you have
to pay for water in current cities. 

For visitors, it'll be included in ticket fees or hotel fees. For
residents, it'll be some sort of periodic charge *payable in advance*. 

Smoking won't necessarily get you lynched. But if your air tag doesn't
show the extra sticker, you are going to get hit with a *hefty* fine.

"Public" facilities may have "free" air, but "community" areas will
require an air tag or other proof of payment. 

"Public" would be something like customs, the port offices, and maybe
the passages between them and the hotels. "Community" would be any
other non-private areas.

One cute item is having a drunk character getting "rolled" for his air
tag. :-)>>


IIRC this was handled in The Traveller Adventure in the chapter "Leedor 
on Aramis". Citizens and visitors pay Cr10 per day in the city, and in 
return receive a colour coded bracelet, which changes colour after
certain peiods pass. Police harrassment can occur , and locals can
be 'anti-' with people not paying the tax. An excellent way of handling
things IMO, and in my game, the characters were rewarded for being
'upstanding visitors' by fair treatment at public offices. The only thing
is that there were no 'Public' areas but this was cool! Gives the PC's
an excuse to get out into the city, and not stay in starport.

Cheers

Del

Derrick Jones
St Helens
Lancashire UK
dojones@whitestar.u-net.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 11:42:02 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
02/03/98 11:42 AM

<<Richard A Flores wrote:
I don't mind this wrinkle, but, it will complicate the sector generation
system.  Because it will need to noted which systems cannot be jumped
directly between.
>>

I know! We could have a table in the rules that lets you generate jump
routes depending on the starports at each end, and mark 'em on the maps
with thick green lines... oh, sorry, we did that once before and gave it
up... :)

Seriously, that approach would be in line with Imperium and the first
edition of the LBBs, and I always thought it was a neat explanation for why
starport class is decoupled from population - you put high spec starports
in systems where you can jump to a lot of others, if there is only one
'tramline' in and out traffic suffers and it isn't worth it.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 12:51:07 +0000
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: OT: D&D Movie

Not directly related to Traveller, but it is about Sweetpea.
From the TSR Message board...

Subject: D&D movie
Topic: TSR_Talk
Author: neer
Date: 02/02/98 20:19:22

Someone posted earlier about Sweetpea Entertainment
owning a screenplay for a D&D film. Actually they have
exclusive rights to do a D&D film, and have had the rights
for a couple years. At one point a possible D&D movie
had attracted the attention of people like James Cameron
and Francis Ford Coppala. Currently Universal pictures
is the foriegn distributor, and Joel Silver (Leathal
Weapons, Die Hards,..) is the executive producer. The
good thing I'm hearing though is that the producer and
director, was a long time D&D player, and has spent
the past 6 years of his life trying to get a D&D movie
made. I've also heard that the script is very good and
will appeal to the wide viewing audience, while still
keeping true to the core D&D fans.

I'd say to look for the film in the next year.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 12:14:26 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Jump Gates

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
02/03/98 12:14 PM

<<Anders wrote:
>Don't recall the T4 statement, but CT said you couldn't put jump drives in
>anything smaller, which may not necessarily mean they wouldn't survive
>transit. It was also implied in CT book 2 that jump-capable message
>torpedoes could exist.
??? Where was that? They mentioned jumptorps in Leviathan supplement but
that was made by Games Workshop methinks. Where in Starships (book 2) are
jump torps mentioned?
>>

Don't have it with me at work, but my copy of the original LBBs from 1977
contains a statement under missiles which (IIRC) says something like "the
standard missile is a homing missile with an HE warhead. Other types of
missiles (such as jump-capable message torpedoes) can be introduced at the
referee's discretion." I rate this as an implication rather than an
explicit canon statement, and it was dropped from the second printing of
the LBBs and subsequent works.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 07:20:35 -0600
From: iresources@juno.com (Vic&Amy Canada)
Subject: Re: Jump drive and gravity wells.

[snip]
>If the
>>>>jump takes the full week +/- then the body *won't* be in the
>way. 
>
>	It's even worse ... how do you figure out if you ran into it 
>or
>not? It's 100 diameter limit may not cross a straight line
>between you and your destination right now, but maybe in 4 days
>it will. So, do you assume each day your "jump space position"
>corresponds to 1/7 the distance from source to target world? Do
>you immediately enter jump space, reach the destination area, and
>"hang around" in jump space for 7 days waiting to precipitate
>out? Or is it something more complex?
I always thought that once you've charted a course for jump space (which
takes a few minutes with the Nav program on the computer) and entered
jump space, in effect you "dissapear" and nothing affects your ship until
you come out of jump space.  

As a matter of fact, if two ships enter jump space, one behind the other,
and the second jumps farther than the first on the same bearing, the
first will not "see" the second pass by.

So no effect from planets and stars until you exit jump space.  


Vic
iresources@juno.com
http://www.iresources.net
http://www.iresources.net/ifc
http://www.evidence.net

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:09:51 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Fusion plus? - Article on Cold Fusion LONGISH

The following article was in the 28 Jan 98 issue of Professional
Engineering, written by Lee Hibbert, Vol 11, No 2, p20:

- ----
THE controversial history of cold fusion has made many scientific
researchers very wary of hailing bold claims of new energy sources. Back in
1989, two American experimenters, professors Stanley Pons and Martin
Fleischmann, triggered one of the biggest scientific debacles in modern
times when they claimed to have created a nuclear reaction at room
temperature using cells containing water and metal hydrides. Usually atomic
nuclei can only be fused at extremely high temperatures such as those
inside the sun or in a hydrogen bomb.

Pons and Fleischmann argued that if this cold fusion process could be
harnessed commercially, it could supply a limitless source of safe, clean
energy. But the blaze of publicity and acclaim surrounding the breakthrough
was extinguished when, after five months of tests, it proved impossible to
replicate the results. Since then, countries such as Japan and Italy have
continued to pursue small-scale research into cold fusion, but the efforts
have proved largely disappointing and inconclusive. Despite running the
risk of being labelled crackpots, a few vociferous researchers are
continuing with their cold fusion experiments. This has led to recent
reports of devices claimed to produce amazing amounts of clean energy at
low cost. Most of the time these claims have been quickly dismissed, but
some early trials have been more encouraging. Perhaps the most intriguing
energy innovation is the Patterson Power Cell. Developed byJames Patterson,
chief scientist at Clean Energy Technologies in Dallas, the cell is touted
as the first device to demonstrate chemically-assisted nuclear reactions
reliably. It has been tested by the US patent office and there is little
doubt that it generates heat. The controversy surrounds how it achieves
this.

The Patterson Power Cell measures 40 cubic centimetres and comprises a glass
enclosure containing thousands  of specially coated metallic beads which
serve as electrodes. The electrolyte is water, with lithium-sulphate as the
current carrier. When subjected to a small amount of electricity - about
1.4W DC - the cell is said to put out up to 1,300W of heat. Clean Energy
Technologies cites recent experiments carried out by Motorola as proof that
the Patterson Cell works. It says that after the cell was heated to around
60"C, the input power was turned off. The cell continued to put out 20W of
thermal power to water flowing ar. a rate of 20ml/minute. This lasted for
12 hours before eventually tailing off over the course of several days.

Other researchers around the world also claim to have created startling
results from innovative devices. Two professors at Osaka University in
Japan claim to have fused heavy atoms of hydrogen inside a thin sample of
palladium. This, they say, creates low-grade heat that amounts to many
times the energy used to initiate the fusion. Similarly, Evan Ragland, an
American engineer, claims to have created a "triode cold fusion reactor
cell", with two positive terminals and a negative one. This, he says,
overcomes the problem of blocking, the bane of conventional experiments
using two diodes in which reactions within the cell cancel each other out
before reaching fusion level. Ragland reckons that an input of between 1W
and 2W produces an output up to 9W. He says he has sold demonstration
models to research establishments worldwide.

Cold fusion researchers have attempted to find theoretical models to
explain the observed effects of these devices. However, the scientific
fraternity is nowhere near establishing a theory that explains all the
phenomena. While cold fusion diehards reckon the explanation may lie in
nuclear reactions or something more bizarre, such as tapping the zero-point
energy of space at the atomic level, some traditionalists refuse to believe
cold fusion is possible. One such sceptic is Peter Stott, head of
experimental physics at Jet, the thermonuclear fusion project based in
Oxfordshire. He is intrigued by the claims of the cold fusion researchers,
but doubts their results could be reproduced. He says: "I am not denying
that some forces appear to be at work within these experiments. However,
these quirks are likely to come from a flaw in the experiments or an
electrochemical effect, but certainly not at nuclear level."

Stott argues that cold fusion remains very unlikely and would require a
radical change in the fundamental laws of physics and inter-nuclear forces.
"It would be as big a change in physics as has been seen so far this
century," he adds. Indeed, failure to produce significant cold fusion
results has persuaded the Japanese government to abandon statefunded
research into the phenomenon. A five-year effort costing $200 million and
involving Hitachi, Toyota and Toshiba has failed to turn cold fUsion into a
practical energy-producing technology.

Nevertheless, cold fusion still has its high-profile converts. The author
and scientist Arthur C Clarke is quoted as saying that cold fusion will
eventually lead to "a technological revolution comparable with the
discovery of fire". He is also reported to be willing to fund a British
institution to research the subject.

- ---

There was a diagram of the cell in the article too. I forwarded this as I
doubt that you'll see many copies of PE in the US.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 11:12:39 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Sophontophagism - was Brocolli

 "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> wrote:

>Hey Eris, you could do as I did, cut and paste.  :-)

Sort of a Pate?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 11:03:15 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: OS problems was Re: Software Proposal OFF TOPIC

Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca> wrote:

>The problem with a general statement like this, is that there are many
>different MacOS versions and configurations, and many different win95
>configurations.
>For example, a PowerMac 8600/200 I'm using at work at the moment came
>with sys 7.5.5. It crashes every time I look at it funny, while my home
>6400/180 w/ sys 8.1 is as stable as a rock.

Know what you mean - my PowerBook 190cs/66 was stable as can be with sys
7.5.2, but my 6400/200 w/ sys 7.5.3 was more like my Win3.11 machine (a
crash a day!). Since I put sys 8 on it has been really stable.

The Win95 system my friend has got crashes a hell of a lot (for no apparent
reason), something I know because he screams for me when it happens.

>The two PC's at work running Win95 crash every now and then, with the one
>system crashing hard for no explicable reason. I'm going to update the
>system on the 8600, I suspect the crashing difficulties will go away.

Is sys 8.1 worth it (we're waiting for the 'International release', which
for the UK involves anglicising the words...

>I'm finding the problem with win95 (and most MS software) is that they
>don't *admit* their software is buggy. "Service updates" they call them,
>and they don't give important ones out for free...

Agreed.

Dom
(who realises this is off thread and suggests we drop the topic on the TML)

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 12:29:36 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
02/03/98 12:29 PM

<<Previous exchange between Shadow and I said:
Just a minor quibble. You need more than two numbers to specify
*someone else's* vector. You can specify your own *heading* that way.
And you can specify their heading that way. But to specify a *vector*,
you need an origin cordinate. And that takes *three* numbers (either
X,Y, and Z, or Rho, Theta, and dex).

Absolutely right. Hence the reference to a "datum" later in the quote... :)
>>

Looking at this I think I made two mistakes in the original posting:
1) I called something a vector when it only had a direction, not a
magnitude.
2) I had the intruder in my little vignette pick up the native's signals to
his missile, when thinking about it you'd do that on tightbeam.

Sorry about that. (There, I feel better now.)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 08:04:56 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Justice...sort of...at last...

FKiesche@aol.com writes:
>
>Well, after about a dozen e-mails to both Tim Brown,
>"sales@imperiumgames.com"
>
>and the main IG address, a few faxes and a few exchanged phone messages, I
>
>have finally gotten both "Emperor's Vehicles" and "Naval Architect's
>Manual"
>
>in exchange for my JTAS subscription and the failed "Citizens" product. 

Glad to hear you've finally got something.

I'm still waiting for my books, that James promised he'd ship three weeks
ago.  Meanwhile, the package that Dom sent me from England arrived in less
than a week.  

I see no reason why I should pay any more money for long distance phone
calls to California, just to get what they owe me.  I've disputed the
charges with VISA, and reserved copies of the missing products at Fandom
II (a mere five hours drive away).  As to my 'missing' JTAS subscription,
I haven't decided yet.  Anyone got any good revenge ideas?

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #95
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All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Imperium Map Question
Re: Thoughts on jump drives
Re: Thought on jump drive
Re: Translator failure
Re: Jump Gates long (sorry)
Re: Imperium Map Question
Re: sin in traveller?
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Justice...sort of...at last...
Re: Imperium Map Question
Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive
Re: Imperium Map Question
RE: TML archives on CD-ROM/And/or question of the week
Re: [TTL] HEPlaR questions...
[T98#90] Chairdogs (Was: Initial Colonization Considerations I ...)
Re: Justice...sort of...at last...
Re: sophonophagism
Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 13:37:18 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Imperium Map Question

Stevie D (aka Bloo) wrote:
> 
> Anders Backman wrote:
> 
> > It is not the map that came with Deluxe Traveller (it was a Spinward
> > marches map), I think it was a poster map for shops and not available as a
> > product (I have one too).
> 
> Oh, man, did I love that Spinward Marches map.  Full color with the matte
> black.  I wonder if anyone has one of these available?  Hell, I'd settle for a
> large jpg or gif version.  I wonder how difficult to would be to make one
> (time to start playing with my CorelDraw).  :-)
> 
> Bloo


Are you talking about the MegaTraveller sector Map?  I have one of
those, I had it plasticoated.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 14:25:54 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on jump drives

Tue, 3 Feb 1998 08:45:38 +0100 (MET), Hans Rancke-Madsen
<rancke@diku.dk>
> >To me the difference was either fuel is used to create a field by the grid
> >to protect the ship

> Now, that can't be, because all the fuel is used before the ship enters
> jumpspace, so how can you maintain the bubble? I've always assumed that
> the energy from the fuel was used to open the hole into jumpspace and
> that the power plant maintained the jump bubble.

In many cases, energy is required to set up a field and not to maintain
it.  (It takes electricity to set up an electric field in a capacitor,
but once that has been done, you can disconnect and it will hold that
field, even letting you get the energy out later).  Obviously, in a
real world situation you may require _some_ energy to maintain, but
this can be so low as to be not worth worrying about in game terms
(heck, you make that the job of "jump capacitors).  This fits with
references to trickle charges that have been passed around for
keeping a jump field up.

> Check the rules for black globes and for breaking off combat. It specifies
> how much of a jump drive is capacitors, how much extra capacitors cost, and
> how many energy points a ton of capacitor can hold. It's CT all right.

I will.  I'll get back to you on that.  However, even if true, it
doesn't
prove that the problem simply isn't that capacitors aren't big enough
to hold all the energy involved.

> >>>>4)	Even if all energy was applied from outside, you still needed jump
> >>>> 	fuel to initiate the jump.
> >>> 
> >>>This is based on one interpretation of one sentence (which never
> >>>explicitly said you need more fuel after the energy needs were met
>
> Yes it does. Check it yourself. If your capacitors are fully charged by
> black globe absorbtion you can jump, _provided_ you have the required
> fuel.

Yes, and there is nothing in that sentence that says that the
fuel isn't used for energy (in fact that is the common meaning of]
the term fuel).  So that fuel is required after the _capacitors_
but not after the energy (since that is what all the fuel is for).
Now you can read alternative explinations into what they really
meant by "fuel" and why you needed some after the capacitors,
but I don't see this as being anything close to saying anything
about need hydrogen for non-energy purposes.  I hardly see this
as standing alone as showing a non-energy use for fuel, let alone
against how one would inuitively see a lanthanum grid working, 
things in the story line about jump space intrudes when the
field starts to collapse, etc.  (including things I mentioned
in previous post but forgot, I haven't made a list....)

> >>>and even if it did, it doesn't prove that you simply don't need to
> >>>generate energy after the jump starts and you can't get anymore from
> >>>the black globe).  

> Except that in a normal jump you can't get any more energy out of the
> jump fuel after the jump starts because all the fuel is used up before
> the jump starts as evidenced by the rules for drop tanks.

This is actually reading way too much in.  Do you really think that
the when they introduced drop tanks they back checked them with
Black Globes?  And don't drop tank description specifically mention
the use of capacitors to store the energy and then starting to
jump _after_ they have been blown away?  And don't they give
absolutely not mention about blowing hydrogen into jump space,
or doing anything to start a jump, before they are blown away?
(I don't have it in front of my, I will have to check when I
get home).

[Regarding storing fuel as hydrogen...]

> >I had always assume that, at jump drive throughputs, you couldn't split
> >the water and purify the hydrogen "on the fly" (and in fact, if you
> >look at the purifier plants from MT, they can't convert fast enough to be
> >able to jump, esp. if you invoke the power being used in minutes or
> >seconds).

> Quite right. But they are plenty good enough for other applications. So why
> waste volume on hydrogen for power plant fuel?

What are "plenty good for other application"?  The purifiers?  If so,
the
answer is that you need to be able to store the hydrogen after you 
purify it anyway (since the purifier isn't fast enought to convert water
on the fly).

> >Not really, if fusion is a mature technology, it's efficiency won't
> >change a lot.

> Except that other kinds of fusion power plants DO improve (significantly)
> from TL 9 to TL 15.

<shrug>.  It depends on thing they haven't mentioned.  It depends on
how the fundamental methods of energy conversion are different for
jump drive.  There are actually a number of different approaches.
I know for my pet theory (where the jump process enables energy
conversion rates that aren't otherwise possible) it may simply be
that you are already getting maximum conversion and the advance
in technology is simply allowing reactors that don't have jump
space as a sink to approach those kinds of efficiencies.

> >I would just drop jump capitors altogether.  There is not need to
> >invoke them at all.

> But jump capacitors are just as much part of canon -- CT canon at that --
> as the jump drive as a special kind of power plant.  In fact, and I know
> that I may be completely wrong here, I'm not at all sure that the whole
> jump drive as a special kind of power plant explanation isn't a MT
> phenomenon. Was it ever stated anywhere in CT that the jump drive
> burned up all the jump fuel? Or did it just say that it used all the
> fuel?

Well, the jump drive in CT depended on the size of the main power
plant.  The heavy implication here (IMO at least) is that it uses 
the same power plant.  Similarly, I've never seen the idea of
capacitors except for optional things (like using black globe
power) and in vague references.  And even then they have never 
really been consitently addressed.  But if you don't want to
drop them there is so much wiggle room you can almost anything
with them you want.

> Anyway, that was a side track. What I started to say was that jump
> capacitors are canon and when you advocate dropping them you are
> violating the spirit of the original.

I would say that making fuel into "jump space ballast" is harder
on canon.  You can alway just keep the capacitors and remain
similarly vague about what they store (perhaps their primary
purpose is to store energy to keep the jump field up during 
transit and the black globe use is simply a sidelight).

> >So we don't agree.  I think it is the spirit of the original that
> >these new theories about jump bubbles violate the most. 

> It's not a theory. It's a handwave.

This is FTL travel.  That doesn't really exist.  Everything here, on all
sides, is
at least partially a handwave.  Anyone who doesn't think so is deluding
themselves.  The question is, which "theory" requires the reader to
accept the least handwaving to remain consistent with connon.  As I have
said, I believe taking a whole new "theory" of jump drive and handwaving
it to fit into a set of parameters based on another theory can't help
but be more of a handwave.

> Whether you agree or not, some of us
> believe that the 'special kind of power plant jump drive' involves some
> major oddities to say the least.

We clearly we have discussed this and disagree.

> We don't believe it could work the way
> it is described in CT

Well, I don't agree that it couldn't work.  I do agree that CT (since
it uses the same power plant for both jump and maneuver) leaves open the
question of why you don't use that energy for other things. Now this
isn't really a problem in CT because you simply don't have room to
stick in larger drives, weapons, etc. that could use all that extra
energy.  But in GURPS Traveller (where weapons power will depend a
lot more on available power) this is a problem, and is why I have gotten
into this.  Again, rather than trying to cludge a whole new theory
of jump drive into existing canon, I took the "Keep it Simple Stupid"
approach of  making a simple, inuitive change. 

> We also believe that
> the idea that much of the "fuel" is used for some other purpose will
> explain away all the oddities and leave the jump drive functioning
> _exactly_ as described in CT _without_ needing any other embarrasing
> handwaves.

As I have said, I think it requires more handwaves than other
approaches.
We are clearly going to have to disagree.

> As far as I am concerned we are trying to uphold the original
> spirit by fixing a crack in the game universe. 

So am I.  I just happen to think you uphold the orignal spirit
by only changing what needs to be changed, rather than replacing
wholesale.

> And I defy you to find three quotes from the background material (as
> opposed to the rule books) where it is explicitly stated that all the
> jump fuel is converted to energy.

Oh, I agree that if there isn't an explicit statement.  So the
question is, what is the most consitent and what is the general
implication?  The use of a shared powerplant in CT, the use of a
lanthanum grid as the central effect, the fact that _is_ called 
"fuel", the fact the jumpspace sickness is caused by a collapse 
of a field, the fact that there is a mention of an signature of
energy being returned out of jump space (when the ship returns) but
there is no mention of any mass returning, the use of capacitors
including being able to jump, in one adventure, on solar power 
alone,  the fact that at least a portion of the hydrogen is used 
as fuel (and there is never any mention of how it is used in any 
other way and there is never any distiction at all between the
protion used for hydrogen and the portion used for mass), etc.
more than outways the sentence or two that I've seen that can
be read either way.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 14:35:14 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Thought on jump drive

Tue, 3 Feb 1998 09:07:05 +0100 (MET), Hans Rancke-Madsen
<rancke@diku.dk>
> Jump gates (or Jump Projectors as I called them when I had the idea some
> years back) will eventually change the economic face of the Imperium. You
> can either assume that they are not practical at all (If you set the time
> before you can use a jump drive again once it has been used to about a
> week you can reduce them to the usefulness of any other kind of drop tank
> arrangement) or you can assume that they don't become possible before the
> capacitors that makes drop tanks possible are invented in the late 11th
> Century and that the practical wrinkles aren't ironed out before the
> Rebellion starts.

Quite right, jump gates are something that should only be introduced
as a new invention and even then the GM should be prepared to do a
lot of working thinking out the reprussions and dealing with unexpected
implications as players explore them.

> Jump torpedoes are possible without disrupting canon history if you assume
> that they cost something around that of an equivalent jump drive and have
> a 1 chance in 36 of failing that manned ships don't have.

This is something that not everyone agrees on and was the subject
of an extensive discussion a while back.  While Hans was adamant
that this assertion was true, there were other (myself included)
who felt equally sure it wasn't.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 98 22:35 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Translator failure

Moin Kenji Schwarz,

> Permit me to reiterate: the defective Kenjomatic 2.0 translation systems
> has been withdrawn from use, following the unfortunate and highly
> regrettable outcomes of the ISBA's last RFD.

	First of all I hope that my english is not as horrorfull as those
	translations had been. iX a german midrange computer magazine, had
	tested several AI translators last volume. They showed that its
	posible to use them, if you know that you are writing for a
	translator and not for a human reader. If you know how they
	translate the final result is most times ok. If you take anything
	(e.g. this mail) which is not 100% correct grammar, all words in
	the dict, easy syntax and semantics, ..., you'll endup with junk :-(

	Chomsky had showed some years ago, thats easier to translate from
	german to english than vice versa, as german grammar is more exact,
	and translation to english is often a simple reduction, while for
	the other way real world knowledge would have to fill missing
	informations.

	ObTrav: translation software is TL:12 good translators TL:13.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 22:21:46 -0000
From: "Nicholas Wright" <xgr52@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Re: Jump Gates long (sorry)

>>??? Where was that? They mentioned jumptorps in Leviathan supplement but
>>>that was made by Games Workshop methinks. Where in Starships (book 2)
are
>>>jump torps mentioned?
>>
>>Jump capable message torpedoes are on page 18.  6th line of the para on
>>Missiles
>>
>
>What edition of Book 2 are you referring to? I have the second edition,
1981
>version. It says nothing about jump torpedoes on page 18 or on any page I
>can find. There are only descriptions of small craft and weaponry.

I'm using the 1977 version,  admittedly printed by Games Workshop in the UK
but why would they change the page numbering? Does America have even pages
on the right as well as cars?

Presumably for later versions try page 19. Or maybe the reference has been
removed if what Andy Boulton says is true.

But I am not referring to Leviathan.

the entire quote in my version is


top of page 18
EXPENDABLES
Certain materials for starship (and non-starship) operation are not
considered to be routine operating expenses, but nevertheless involve
occasional purchases on an irregular basis. These include ammunition and
repair parts.
Missiles: Missiles for missile launch racks are expended when they are
fired; replacements must be obtained for reloading purposes when the
situation warrants. Basically, a missile is of the homing type, costing
about CR 5000 each. Such missiles are committed to a specific target when
fired, and after launch, home towards that target until either the missile
or the target is destroyed. Other types of missiles are possible (for
example, jump capable message torpedoes, or bombs for attacks against
planetary surfaces), but such require either specific alterations to
ordinary torpedoes, or location of an arms supplier who deals in such
items. Specific attributes of such non-standard missiles are the realm of
the referee.
Sand: The abrasive particles used in the sandcaster are of a special
composition, combining prismatic crvstals and ablative particles, which
allows interference with laser beanms and pulses, as well as inflicting
minor 

This makes the smallest jumpable hull very much less than 1400m3 but many
things have changed over the years so I wont worry.


Nick Wright 
Just call me mud

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 19:05:56 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Imperium Map Question

J-Man wrote:

> Stevie D (aka Bloo) wrote:
>
> > Oh, man, did I love that Spinward Marches map.  Full color with the matte
> > black.  I wonder if anyone has one of these available?  Hell, I'd settle for a
> > large jpg or gif version.  I wonder how difficult to would be to make one
> > (time to start playing with my CorelDraw).  :-)
>
> Are you talking about the MegaTraveller sector Map?  I have one of
> those, I had it plasticoated.

Don't think so.  It may be heresy here but I have never, ever, read any of the Mega
Traveller stuff.  I did look at TNE the basic rulebook anway, but none of that stuff
really caught my fancy.  I also took an extended break from gaming in college.  So I
really don't have any clue about any of that stuff.  I'm a hardcore, little black
book CT kind of guy.  T4 seems to be right in the spirit of those, and thats why I'm
back into it.  Wish I had access to some of those little black books.  I think
Mercenary, Trillion Credit Squadron and High Guard were my favorites  (I think High
Guard had the more complete Naval career stuff?).

Oh, for those books to be re-released.  Or, for T4.1 to be released in that format!
That gets my excited in a strange way.   hehe  :-)

Short of that, if the data from those old books were released on the web, on a disk,
in a stack of xeroxed copies, sometime real soon, I'd be a very happy little man.


Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 17:03:59 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: sin in traveller?

Shadow wrote:


>Actually, this brings up a detail often overlooked in running players
>thru artificial environments. The will be air fees, just like you have
>to pay for water in current cities. 
>
>For visitors, it'll be included in ticket fees or hotel fees. For
>residents, it'll be some sort of periodic charge *payable in advance*. 
>
>Smoking won't necessarily get you lynched. But if your air tag doesn't
>show the extra sticker, you are going to get hit with a *hefty* fine.

If you make it into the arms of the Law, that is.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 17:12:03 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Shadow wrote:

>And it should be possible to take advantage of the planet's velocity by
>choosing the right departure direction.

Hmmm, it seems that those in the Far Future will be looking to hit a window
just like astronauts in the here and now.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:05:50 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Dom wrote (to Walter G. Smith):
>
>PS Can you switch off that Winmail.dat file on your email - it really
>messes the Digest up.
>There are a number of the servants of the Evil Empire here who can tell you
>how. I believe the easy solution is to sell your Windows machine and buy a
>Mac with Eudora and Netscape. However, the servants of the NTChrist can
>probably tell you how to do it in your software. ;-)

While not a servant of the Evil Empire, I can instruct you on how not to
send rich text over the TML.  When next you respond to a post, click on the
filing card icon next to the "To:", "Cc:" or "Bcc:" line.  When you get to
the address book, select TML.  If you don't have the TML in your address
book, add it.  Then click on the properties button.  Check the "Send E-mail
using plain text only" box.  Then when you send e-mail with rich text
(HTML), Outlook Express will tell you some people prefer plain text and you
will be asked if you want to send plain text.  Just select the Send Plain
Text button.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:22:55 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Justice...sort of...at last...

 aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton) wrote:

>_The Annililik Run_ and _Missions of State_ arrived this morning - a
>pleasant surprise, because this is when they were *supposed* to arrive.
>These *should* be my freebies...I'll wait and see if anything appears on my
>next CC bill.

The Annililik Run *won't* be a pleasant surprise when you read it... ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:53:21 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Imperium Map Question

In a message dated 98-02-03 16:49:48 EST, you write:

<< > Oh, man, did I love that Spinward Marches map.  Full color with the matte
 > black.  I wonder if anyone has one of these available?  >>

I have some available... same as with the Imperium map. send me a Priority
Mail stamp and I'll send you a package.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:08:45 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation

>> But then a nasty competitor might feed you faulty data.  But of
>> course, that would probably be against the law.  Hooks, hooks,
>> hooks, everywhere I look are hooks.
>
>Yeah, really nice hook.  Some sleazy guy sells the PC's "bargain
>basement"  info in 1105.  Just happens to be from 1st survey.

Actually, what I envisioned was not a sale of information, but an exchange
of information in the interest of public safety.  Have you read the
description of the business ring?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:33:06 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

- -----Original Message-----
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Tuesday, February 03, 1998 6:12 AM
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive


>In mail you write:
>
>> Excuse me while I redesign my trading ships with enough emergency low
>> berths for everyone...it might be a long wait in that empty hex. They'll
>> hear our distress beacon in what - 18 months?
>
>Try 39 months. One parsec is 3.26 light years, of 39 and a fraction
>light months.

Yes but what's  1200 days between friends.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:47:34 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Jump Drive

Andy Slack wrote:
>
[snip]

>...I always thought it [jumpis interuptus] was a neat explanation for why
>starport class is decoupled from population - you put high spec starports
>in systems where you can jump to a lot of others, if there is only one
>'tramline' in and out traffic suffers and it isn't worth it.

I have a character who would disagree.  He has made a fortune trading on a
world with only 1 tram-line.  No one else goes there, he's cleaning up.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 01:11:16 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Imperium Map Question

On Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:53:21 EST, CardSharks@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 98-02-03 16:49:48 EST, you write:
> 
> << > Oh, man, did I love that Spinward Marches map.  Full color with the matte
>  > black.  I wonder if anyone has one of these available?  >>
> 
> I have some available... same as with the Imperium map. send me a Priority
> Mail stamp and I'll send you a package.

Gee, Marc, do you have anything *else*? :)



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mano au mano, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:04:14 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@m9.sprynet.com>
Subject: RE: TML archives on CD-ROM/And/or question of the week

I had a group do this once..

The 'translator' (was a human that knew aslan) said what he thought 
was "Hello, I hope you had a wonderful trip"..

The Aslan replyed with (in galangic)

"What was that you said about my mother?"





> 
>    Speaking of confusion, does anyone have any stories about players
> attempting to use translator programs during encounters with new aliens and
> roll spectacular failure?  How do you handle this?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Harold
> 
 
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com                    http://www.bigfoot.com/~tsykoduk

Thought for the day:
    Advertising (n): the science of arresting the human
    intelligence for long enough to get money from it.
           -- Stephen Leacock.

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 21:07:12 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: [TTL] HEPlaR questions...

At 01:25 PM 2/3/98 -0600, Andrew Akins wrote:
>What kind of power plant does HEPlaR require? In some sources it says it
>requires a fusion plant - in other sources it doesn't seem to matter.

In FF&S1, any power plant (fusion, fission, internal combustion, fuel
cell - anything) would do.  In FF&S2, it needs fusion (sorry), because
it's a type of fusion drive.



wildstar@qrc.com
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It's Science Fiction, if, presuming technical competence on the part of
 the writer, he genuinely believes it could happen." --- John W. Campbell

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 01:40:29 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: [T98#90] Chairdogs (Was: Initial Colonization Considerations I ...)

On Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:53:10 -0500, ASlack@synetics.co.uk wrote...

>I use "chairdogs" from one of Frank Herbert's stories. They are genetic
>constructs with the loyalty and devotion to man of a dog, but superior
>upholstery. So, they creep around the apt. trying to entice you to sit on
>them so they can give you a hug/massage. [Unfeeling players have been known
>to have chairdog races around their hotel suite.]

Chairdogs (and the sleeper model, beddogs/bedogs) were from his
Jorj X. McKie/BuSab novels, _Whipping_Star_ and
_The_Dosadi_Experiment_.  Excellent writing, good stories, lots
of interesting material that could be included into Traveller -
although there was enough differences between his universe and
the Traveller universe that his universe couldn't, IMO, be called
"Travelleresque".

I'd _love_ to have a "Contact: Gowachin" for Freelance Traveller.

And I wish Herbert would write more stories in this series.  N.B.
As near as I can figure, his story _The_Godmakers_ feels like it
was/should be set in an earlier period of the same universe.

- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 19:33:27 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Justice...sort of...at last...

Rob Prior wrote:

>I'm still waiting for my books, that James promised he'd ship three weeks
>ago.  Meanwhile, the package that Dom sent me from England arrived in less
>than a week.
>
>I see no reason why I should pay any more money for long distance phone
>calls to California, just to get what they owe me.  I've disputed the
>charges with VISA, and reserved copies of the missing products at Fandom
>II (a mere five hours drive away).  As to my 'missing' JTAS subscription,
>I haven't decided yet.  Anyone got any good revenge ideas?

I've always hated spam.  I'm not suggesting anything, just making an
observation.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 19:57:00 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: sophonophagism

Rob Prior wrote:


>traveller@mpgn.com,Internet writes:
Actually no, I, Richard A. Flores, wrote:

>>Someone has suggested sophonophagism.  That sounds like as good a name as
>>any for the eating of a sapient species.  Of course if you murdered them
>>first, then there would be an additional charge of sophontocide.
>
>----
>
>Why should the eating be a crime?  Disrespect of the dead, maybe, but then
>you could also include disturbing burial grounds!
>
>I'd say that sophonophagism is a social blunder in Imperial society, but
>not actually a crime per se, as long as you have legally acquired the
>protein.

And if word of it gets around, you better hope you never have to trade with
them, or get stuck on one of their planets, because it probably is against
the law there.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 19:39:45 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation

Tommy Grav wrote:


>On Mon, 2 Feb 1998, Richard A. Flores wrote:
>
>> Even if a stellar system has a dozen planets and a couple of
>> companions, that is still less than a kilobytes of data.
>> The computer I'm typing on right now could hold the records
>> of 4 million such systems.  And could actively manipulate
>> all the data required to reach anything within 6 parsecs for
>> the highest density regions known to or hypothesized by
>> man.  As I have mentioned before, a business ring would
>> be capable of handling the computations in addition to it's
>> normal functions.
>
>Something to be aware of is the possibility of pertubations of the orbits.
>For planets this will only happen in binary or trinary and so on systems.

The computer will have all the data and would be able to account for such
perturbations.  Could you rephrase your last sentence?  I'm not sure what
you mean.  Thanks.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #97
*********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Wednesday, February 4 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 098



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Sophontophagism - was Brocolli
Re: Visual BASIC
From The Archives (Was Imperium Map Question)
Re: Visual BASIC
Campaigns
Re: HEPlaR questions...
Re: Canonisity (was Re: Thoughts on jump drives)
Re: From The Archives (Was Imperium Map Question)
Re: From The Archives (Was Imperium Map Question)
Re: LS Communications - (Was Re: Temporal Aspects of Jump Drive)
Re: Thoughts on jump drives
Re: Jump capable message torpedoes was Re: Jump gates
Missions of state
Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation
TML
Re: Justice...sort of...at last...
Ping
FFS2 spreadsheet on the Mac
For Sale: STRIKER (1st ed.)
Re: Ordering T4 Products
Re: Jump Gates
'Tjurkala' Class Tramp Freighter
Sophonophagism
Jump Gates

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 19:25:49 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Sophontophagism - was Brocolli

Dom wrote:


> "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> wrote:
>
>>Hey Eris, you could do as I did, cut and paste.  :-)
>
>Sort of a Pate?

I'm not fond of organ meats (especially liver).

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 19:16:59 -0800 (PST)
From: jwbrewer@ucsd.edu (James W Brewer)
Subject: Re: Visual BASIC

Richard A. Flores wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the references Jim.
> 
> Do you know if VB has to be compiled or anything like that?

No, you don't if you are running the project on a system with Visual Basic.
However for distribution you can create a .exe form which can run without
VB, although you may have to include additional file that the project requires. 

                     James W. Brewer
                     Univ. of Calif. at San Diego

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 22:08:48 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: From The Archives (Was Imperium Map Question)

I'm getting more interest in this than I thought, so I have gone to the
archives and this is what I can put in a package---

Imperium Map
Spinward Marches Map
Special Supplement 2- Exotic Atmospheres
GDW / DGP Joint Poster (full color)
Aliens For Traveller (original 8 page piece)

This will all fit in a US Post Office Priority Mail Envelope... It needs a $3
stamp.

Send me a $3 stamp and your mailing address and I'll send this off to you.

Limited supply.

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 22:52:14 -0500
From: "Jeff Fuller" <jfuller@frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Visual BASIC

VB requires a minimum of 1 .DLL file and potentially more .OCX files if you
use some of the form controls. VB comes with a nice SETUP program maker that
will take care of figuring out what you need to distribute witht the app you
make and build a whole setup kit for you.

Jeff
- -----Original Message-----
From: James W Brewer <jwbrewer@ucsd.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Tuesday, February 03, 1998 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: Visual BASIC


>Richard A. Flores wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the references Jim.
>>
>> Do you know if VB has to be compiled or anything like that?
>
>No, you don't if you are running the project on a system with Visual Basic.
>However for distribution you can create a .exe form which can run without
>VB, although you may have to include additional file that the project
requires.
>
>                     James W. Brewer
>                     Univ. of Calif. at San Diego
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 22:35:11 -0600
From: iresources@juno.com (Vic&Amy Canada)
Subject: Campaigns

I'm curious about how many of you have your campaigns take place within
the existing worlds of Traveller and how many create your own sectors?

If you create your own, where do you place your sectors in relationship
to the existing sectors?

Are there any of you who still use the original rule books with your own
version of the history?

I haven't actually played in years and over time I've pulled out the old
materials (original rule books) and work on some of my sectors,
scenarios, and old campaigns.  I've started converting one of the old
campaigns into a book.  Anyway, just curious about what you do.


Vic
iresources@juno.com
http://www.iresources.net
http://www.iresources.net/ifc
http://www.evidence.net

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 22:09:30 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: HEPlaR questions...

Andrew Akins wrote:


>I'm designing a low-tech ship, so I'm examining HEPlaR...
>
>What kind of power plant does HEPlaR require? In some sources it says it
>requires a fusion plant - in other sources it doesn't seem to matter.
>
>Can it be added to a fission plant? Fusion is pretty hard do put in a small
>ship at low tech because of minimum size requirements...while a fission
>plant has no such problem.

"High-Efficiency Plasma Recombustion"
 ------------------------------------------------------
"...HEPlaR adds a heat exchanger/recombustion chamber to any existing fusion
(not Fusion+) power plant.  Hydrogen injected into the chamber is heated to
a plasma state, then magnetically accelerated further to produce a
high-velocity stream of reaction mass.  HEPlaR thrusters require input
power."  FF&S2 p 65

So, apparently, you have to have the fusion power plant before you can add a
HEPlaR engine.  However, I remembered reading something on fusion rockets.

"Fusion"
 ----------
"Appearing experimentally a TL8 and perfected at TL9, a fusion rocket is
simply a fusion reactor designed to 'leak' fusing hydrogen plasma, under
control, out one end."  FF&S2 p 66

So, it seems to me that you could use a fusion rocket to provide the "power
plant" required, as a "pre-heater" of sorts.  I would say you would have to
go with a fusion rocket .25 (0.00125/.005) times the size of your HEPlaR
with a minimum size of 11 1/9 m³.  Bearing that in mind, you will need a
minimum of 44 4/9 m³ of HEPlaR producing 88,888 8/9 kN of thrust.  If you
use less, you will have to deal with the radioactive exhaust.

I guess that didn't help much did it.

Does anyone know what the operating temperatures are for fission piles?

I must be Travelling,

Richard

PS:  It seems that I have found another error in FF&S2.  Table 167 (p 105)
lists the TL's as 9 and 10.  Does anyone know which of these are right?
It's not in the errata data I have.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 22:21:15 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Canonisity (was Re: Thoughts on jump drives)

Don Stark wrote:

>Merrick Burkhardt wrote:
>>
>> Their was an editorial in JTAS (CT era) that specifically stated
>> that everything within was not canon :-P
>
>I hadn't caught this. Thanks for pointing it out. Since the LHYd tanks
>were also originally introduced in a Journal article, that would make
>their interpretation open to question.

<reasoned response mode ON>
As I said earlier, the JTAS articles are not canon until someone like Marc
says they are canon.  Since the drop tanks are included in everything from
LBB5 (High Guard) to FF&S2, I would guess that's confirmation enough.
<reasoned response mode OFF>

Don't be obtuse.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 00:47:13 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: From The Archives (Was Imperium Map Question)

Marc,

To what address should we send our eager requests?

- - Bill




At 10:27 PM 2/3/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I'm getting more interest in this than I thought, so I have gone to the
>archives and this is what I can put in a package---
>
>Imperium Map
>Spinward Marches Map
>Special Supplement 2- Exotic Atmospheres
>GDW / DGP Joint Poster (full color)
>Aliens For Traveller (original 8 page piece)
>
>This will all fit in a US Post Office Priority Mail Envelope... It needs a $3
>stamp.
>
>Send me a $3 stamp and your mailing address and I'll send this off to you.
>
>Limited supply.
>
>Marc Miller
> 

Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 01:37:51 EST
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: From The Archives (Was Imperium Map Question)

In a message dated 98-02-03 22:31:17 EST, you write:

<< I'm getting more interest in this than I thought, so I have gone to the
 archives and this is what I can put in a package---
 
 Imperium Map
 Spinward Marches Map
 Special Supplement 2- Exotic Atmospheres
 GDW / DGP Joint Poster (full color)
 Aliens For Traveller (original 8 page piece)
 
 This will all fit in a US Post Office Priority Mail Envelope... It needs a $3
 stamp.
 
 Send me a $3 stamp and your mailing address and I'll send this off to you.
  >>

Is this open to everybody?  If so, what address should I send to?

Thanks,
Semo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 00:37:06 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: LS Communications - (Was Re: Temporal Aspects of Jump Drive)

Bloo wrote:

>Side question relating to this:  anyone know off hand the fastest possible
>sub-light speeds for a ship at TL 8-9?  I know it will vary greatly by
engine
>type, but if it were half-light, that would allow some amount of contact
>between close systems - a 7 year trip.

In answer to your first question, just under the speed of light.

If all you want is contact, then just launch a small ship with a double
100,000 AU transceiver.

At TL9 using a Bussard ram jet engine, a ship could reach better than 98%
the speed of light.  Spanning a parsec would take less than 5 years at 1 G.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:10:10 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on jump drives

[OK, now that I got home and have looked at High Guard...]
At 2:25 PM -0800 2/3/98, David P. Summers wrote:
>> Check the rules for black globes and for breaking off combat. It specifies
>> how much of a jump drive is capacitors, how much extra capacitors cost, and
>> how many energy points a ton of capacitor can hold. It's CT all right.

>I will.  I'll get back to you on that.  However, even if true, it
>doesn't
>prove that the problem simply isn't that capacitors aren't big enough
>to hold all the energy involved.

I did check this out, and it does say what Hans claims (and my
proviso applies).  Interesting is what it also says (it pays
to refresh one's memory sometimes).  Under fuel it states that
"A ship requires fuel for its jump drive and for its power plant;
the power plant converts fuel to energy for computers, jump drives,
maneuver drives, weapons, and screens."  The fact that the author
stops to delineate what fuel is used for and fails to mention
it being used for anything other than energy, to me is telling.
Otherwise, one has to wonder why an author would choses to
explicitly delineate the most obvious usage for fuel (to
get power) and somehow not see the need to point out a use
that the reader can't be sure of otherwise.

>And don't drop tank description specifically mention
>the use of capacitors to store the energy and then starting to
>jump _after_ they have been blown away?  And don't they give
>absolutely not mention about blowing hydrogen into jump space,
>or doing anything to start a jump, before they are blown away?
>(I don't have it in front of my, I will have to check when I
>get home).

Well, in fact the description of drop tanks in CT is no
help either way.  I must be remembering a later description
of drop tanks (though I am sure that some mention of this
sort exists).

>> Except that other kinds of fusion power plants DO improve (significantly)
>> from TL 9 to TL 15.

Actually, maneuver drives don't improve in efficiency either, so
it might be best concluded that there simply wasn't an exhaustive
analysis of which things should improve by TL when the book
was written.

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 08:00:59 -0000
From: Roy B Jephson <r.jephson@optichrome.com>
Subject: Re: Jump capable message torpedoes was Re: Jump gates

- --MimeMultipartBoundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

There must be more than one version of the CT Book 2: Starships

I checked my Book 2 last evening and on page 18, 6th line of the paragraph about missiles,
"jump capable message torpedoes" are mentioned as an example of a missile.

I cannot see any edition or revision numbers in my Book 2. But it is printed in the UK by Game's 
Workshop under license from GDW.

- ----------------------------
Roy B Jephson
Optichrome Computer Solutions Limited
98-100 Maybury Road, Woking, Surrey, GU21 5HX, England
Tel: +44 1483 740233

- --MimeMultipartBoundary--

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 23:23:52 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Missions of state

Okay so this and Anniluk run arrived today (yes it's all true, right
down to the mutant killer space fungi). However I now am left with a
puzzle. Now on the spine of all the T4 material is a code (in hexidec
naturally). Now NAH is "D", Imperial Squadrons is "E" and MoS is "G";
what the heck was "F"?

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm

****************************************************************************
We're digging a hole in the road, you can't go up, you can't go down
you'll have to wait to drive around
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 11:53:35 +0100 (MET)
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
Subject: Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation

On Tue, 3 Feb 1998, Richard A. Flores wrote:

> Tommy Grav wrote:
> 
> 
> >On Mon, 2 Feb 1998, Richard A. Flores wrote:
> >
> >Something to be aware of is the possibility of pertubations of the orbits.
> >For planets this will only happen in binary or trinary and so on systems.
> 
> The computer will have all the data and would be able to account for such
> perturbations.  Could you rephrase your last sentence?  I'm not sure what
> you mean.  Thanks.
> 

The computers ability to accout for such pertubations is really dependent
on the software and time used. If you have orbital elements that are a
hundred years old, you need to do the calculations from that day to the
present to see if there are any significant pertubations. That is going to
take a long time, even for a TL12 computer.


Today it is really hard to make good predictions on orbits of high
accuracy. The last sentence was meant to indicate that there are other
objects than planets in a starsystem. Asteroids and comets will be much
harder to predict the orbit for and to locate one based on a hundred years
old data can be quite a daunting task.
 

Tommy Grav                  tommy.grav@astro.uio.no    
Institute of Astrophysics   http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/
University in Oslo          "If you value your lives, be somwhere 
Norway                       else!" - Ambassador Delenn B5 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 06:41:49 -0800
From: Alan Bryce <a-sbryce@nh.ultranet.com>
Subject: TML

unsubscribe traveller-digest
 THANKS    
	Alan L.Bryce

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 12:46:17 +0100
From: "V.A.G" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Justice...sort of...at last...

> >_The Annililik Run_ and _Missions of State_ arrived this morning - a
> >pleasant surprise, because this is when they were *supposed* to arrive.
> >These *should* be my freebies...I'll wait and see if anything appears on my
> >next CC bill.
MoS is out? What in it?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 12:56:01 +0100
From: "V.A.G" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Ping

Help: Does anybody get my messages to the TML? I didn´ t see the ones I
posted for the last 2-3 weeks!
I haven´ t set my specs to noack! What´ s going on?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 08:38:38 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: FFS2 spreadsheet on the Mac

Has anyone successfully loaded Andy Akins' FFS2 Excel Spreadsheet into the
Mac version of Clarisworks (v5 or earlier?)? If so, I'd love to hear from
you...

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 04:21:14 -0800
From: Joel Pratt <jpratt@ucla.edu>
Subject: For Sale: STRIKER (1st ed.)

I'm selling the Classic Traveller version of STRIKER (Rules for 15mm
Traveller Miniatures)

Condition:
Complete (Box, 3 Books, Design Tables, 2 Reference Cards,
          2 Dice, Reply Card, 11 little 15mm miniatures)
All components are in near-mint condition.

Minimum Bid:
$25

Rules: Auction will run roughly two weeks. Bids should be sent to
jpratt@ucla.edu. Payment will be by check or money order. References
available. Winning bid will be assessed an additional $4 for shipping (in
the U.S. - international shipping will be higher). American funds only.


- --Joel Pratt
jpratt@ucla.edu
http://www.seas.ucla.edu/~jpratt

"Bill Clinton does not have the moral fiber to be a mass murderer."
 -- Nobel Peace Prize recipient Dr. Henry Kissinger, Spring 1997

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 98 06:09:24 +0100
From: Niko Wieleba <scarab1@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Ordering T4 Products

Hello:

Kagehira said:
>	I don't normally advertise, per se, however an excellent person to order RPG
>products off of is Kevin Knight of Sword of the Knight publications. I've
>always recieved product in a timely manner (well, he did slip a little this
>last time, but considering how hard I make my orders sometimes, I can't fault
>him). In the case of curerntly available products I recieve 30% off (though I
>think you need to subscribe to one of his magazines; Harold feel free to
>correct me on this if I'm wrong), and S&H is only $5 regardless of the 
>size of
>the order. And he doesn't charge you till it ships or afterwards.

Another source I use for new games (at 30% off) is Titan Games.  In the 
time I have been doing business with him (with new and used games both) I 
have never been displeased with the quality or timeliness of orders or 
email responses.

Just another alternate for those of you who may be tired of IG's antics.

Niko

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 15:35:16 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Jump Gates

>Don't have it with me at work, but my copy of the original LBBs from 1977
>contains a statement under missiles which (IIRC) says something like "the
>standard missile is a homing missile with an HE warhead. Other types of
>missiles (such as jump-capable message torpedoes) can be introduced at the
>referee's discretion." I rate this as an implication rather than an
>explicit canon statement, and it was dropped from the second printing of
>the LBBs and subsequent works.

Yes, my original 1977 LBB book 2 has the following on page 18:
"Other types of missiles are possible (for example, jump capable message
torpedoes, or bombs for attacks against planetary syrfaces)), but such
require either specific alterations to ordinary torpedoes, or location of
an arms supplier who deals in such items."

My apologies to the original poster for questioning the truth in his statements.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 22:29:33 +0800
From: "Michael Bailey" <mickb@opera.iinet.net.au>
Subject: 'Tjurkala' Class Tramp Freighter

First looks at Andy's spreadsheet - here goes...

 Tjurkala, Tjurkala class Tramp Freighter (FF&S v2)
 Designed by Michael Bailey, using FFS2XL.XLS, by Andy Akins (igor@ames.net)

 Statistics
  Tons: 250std ( SL Med Cylinder Hypersonic )  Crew: 5/6 Cargo: 81std (0/2
/Hdl:1x15ton)
  Volume: 3500m3  Passengers High/Med: 0/0 Cost: 45.324 MCr
  Mass (L/C): 4008t/2320t  Passengers Low: 0 Maintenance Points: 104
  Dimensions: 26.2m x 13m x 13m  Troops/Science: 0/0 Tech Level: 11
  Size: 8  Frozen Watch: 0

 Electronics
  Controls: Dynamic, Standard automation. 3xComp (CM:0.5 CP:2.0). No bridge.
  Communications: 1xRadio Rec. (1,000AU, 0.02MW). 1xRadio (50,000km,
0.02MW). 1xLaser (1,000AU, 0MW).
  Sensors: 1xPEMS (12.5 [1.6mkm], 0MW). 1xAEMS (9, 0.13MW).
  Survey/Science:
  ECM:
  Signatures: Vis:-0.5, IR:0 (0 at 230MW, 0 at 25MW), Act:0.5, Neu:0,
Grav:-2

 Weaponry   Performance
    2 Jump (25std/pc fuel)
    1 Maneuver (/HEPlaR:175MW,11.2 G-hours)
  1xLight Laser Turret (+0) 1/1-1-0-0 [2,50/18-18-9-5] (SR)  1 Contra-grav
(49MW)
     1578kph/2599kph Atmosphere (/Crus:1184kph/1949kph)
     2 Power (/Fis:245MW,1yr )
     0 Battery
     90 Fuel (/Scoop:5 /Purif:40,1MW)
     0/4/1/0/0 Accomodations
     8 Life Sup. (/Ty:EnA,Mn)
     1 G-Comp
     0 ESA
     1 Sandcasters ( /AV:80 /Cans:5)
     0 Damper Turrets
     0 Damper Screen
  2xEmpty Turret (3std ea.)  0 Meson Screen
     0 Force Field
     0 Gravtics
     0 [20] Armor, 7 Structure

 Features
  3xAirlock
  1xShip's locker (0.13std ea.)
  1xOrdinary Galley (Cap:4)

 Small Craft

  None

 Backups
  Drives:
  Screens:
  Communications: 1xRadio Rec. (50,000km). 1xRadio (5,000km).
  Sensors:
  Survey/Science:
  ECM:
  Power & Fuel:

 Crew Details
  2xMnvr. 2xEngr. 1xGunn. 1xScrn. 1xCmnd.


Note: this ship uses the unofficial fuel in waste space rule.

The 'Tjurkala' Class Tramp Freighters are commonly found plying the star
lanes of the Solomani Rim.  The 'Tjurkala' design has changed very little
since it's entry into service early in the Rule of Man.  It's design specs
are well known throughout the area once controlled by the former Terran
Confederation, and is still being built on a good number of worlds in all
five major states of the Solomani Rim.

New 'Tjurkala' Freighters are often built as cheap, quickly constructed
freighters by a number of governments, either as government-owned
transports, or as part of subsidized merchant operations.  Once paid off,
many are sold to private individuals and operated as Free Traders.  The
ships are a popular choice for start-up operators, as parts and service are
easy to obtain on most developed worlds.

The 'Tjurkala' is lightly armed, carrying a small dual laser in it's single
turret (although many variants forego the armament alltogether).  A
sandcaster provides some small measure of defence.

Beyond the reach of interstellar government (and their tedious starship
operating regulations), examples of this class as old as half a millenium or
more ply their trade.  One famous (indeed, almost legendary) example was the
'Hat Trick', operated by the infamous 'Black' Jack Cooley, the former Terran
Navy Captain discharged and exiled from the Old Earth Union in -225
following the 'Harpoon' mutiny.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 10:12:45 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Sophonophagism

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
02/04/98 10:12 AM

<<Rob Prior wrote:
Why should the eating be a crime?  Disrespect of the dead, maybe, but then
you could also include disturbing burial grounds!
>>

IIRC the Andes plane crash case, where survivors ate the bodies of the
dead, no charges were pressed. In fact I recall seeing a Catholic priest
interviewed on TV about this who said that in his interpretation of
doctrine, the survivors actually had a duty to do this, as otherwise they
would have been allowing themselves to die when a means of survival existed
- - this would have been tantamount to suicide and therefore a sin. So eating
sophonts is much less likely to be a crime than killing them especially for
the purpose.

Don't vegetarian Tibetans have a religious clause that says it's OK to eat
meat if the animal died by accident?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 10:24:44 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Jump Gates

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
02/04/98 10:24 AM

<<Andrew Boulton wrote:
It's years since I saw it, but I don't remember this either. IIRC the
only mention of j-torps was Adv4. CT *did* go through 2 editions, so
maybe this was dropped from 2nd Ed (and this would explain where the
authors of Leviathan got the idea)?
>>

Jump torpedoes were mentioned in passing in the first edition (1977) of
Book 2, but dropped in the second (1981) edition. I'll dig out the page
reference for you when I get home.

Other changes that were made to the ship rules between those two editions:

1) Originally, your Computer Model/No did not have to equal or exceed your
jump drive number, so long as the computer had enough CPU to run the jump
programme for your jump. So for example Type S had a Mod/1, and Type M had
a Mod/2 IIRC. These changed to Mod/1bis and Mod/3 respectively in the 1981
edition.

2) Originally, your power plant number did not have to equal or exceed your
jump number. So the Type M had jump-3, manoeuvre-1, power-1. This meant you
could have a 200 ton jump-6 courier, which is no longer possible.

3) Ship's Boats did not have a variable payload. This is because between
1977 and 1981 High Guard came out with ship's boat design rules, and the
standard boats were reworked to match.

4) Power plant fuel was used up in manoeuvring in the 1977 edition (and
Mayday, come to that) but not in the 1981 edition.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #98
*********************************

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Traveller-digest     Wednesday, February 4 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 099



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: [T98#90] Chairdogs (Was: Initial Colonization Considerations I ...)
Re: Chairdogs (Was: Initial Colonization Considerations I ...)
Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation
Re: Critical Hits and +D-D
Re: Translator failure
Re: From The Archives (Was Imperium Map Question)
Re: From The Archives (Was Imperium Map Question)
Re:chair dogs
Re: Brocolli - was +D-D Discussion (renamed)
Broccoli (Word for 'eating intelligent beings')
TravList] re- a call for starshipwrights, ship designs needed...
Re: Ordering T4 Products
Re: Chairdogs
Re: Imperium Map Question
Fifth Frontier Wars Algorithms for Squadron Development
RE: TravList] re- a call for starshipwrights, ship designs needed ...
Trans-Core-Rally
Re: TravList] re- a call for starshipwrights, ship designs needed...
Re: Justice...sort of...at last...
Re: Justice...sort of...at last...
Re: Ping
Re: Chairdogs (Was: Initial Colonization Considerations I ...)
Re: [TTL] HEPlaR questions...
Re: Jump and Gravity Wells

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 08:58:20 -0600 (CST)
From: ccguy@showme.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: [T98#90] Chairdogs (Was: Initial Colonization Considerations I ...)

Chair and Beddogs also appear in the later Dune novels. One of the main
characters, Miles Teg, has a moral aversion to their use, has
old-fashioned furniture in his house, and people generally make 
special accomodations for his comfort, as he is the greatest military 
commander living. Anyway, having chairdogs and having characters with
moral or religious aversion to them could make for some interesting 
problems/situtations when negotiating.

Guy Wilson

On Wed, 4 Feb 1998, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:

> On Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:53:10 -0500, ASlack@synetics.co.uk wrote...
> 
> >I use "chairdogs" from one of Frank Herbert's stories. They are genetic
> >constructs with the loyalty and devotion to man of a dog, but superior
> >upholstery. So, they creep around the apt. trying to entice you to sit on
> >them so they can give you a hug/massage. [Unfeeling players have been known
> >to have chairdog races around their hotel suite.]
> 
> Chairdogs (and the sleeper model, beddogs/bedogs) were from his
> Jorj X. McKie/BuSab novels, _Whipping_Star_ and
> _The_Dosadi_Experiment_.  Excellent writing, good stories, lots
> of interesting material that could be included into Traveller -
> although there was enough differences between his universe and
> the Traveller universe that his universe couldn't, IMO, be called
> "Travelleresque".
> 
> I'd _love_ to have a "Contact: Gowachin" for Freelance Traveller.
> 
> And I wish Herbert would write more stories in this series.  N.B.
> As near as I can figure, his story _The_Godmakers_ feels like it
> was/should be set in an earlier period of the same universe.
> 
> --
> Jeff Zeitlin
> jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 16:27:21 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Chairdogs (Was: Initial Colonization Considerations I ...)

> And I wish Herbert would write more stories in this series.  N.B.
> As near as I can figure, his story _The_Godmakers_ feels like it
> was/should be set in an earlier period of the same universe.
>
> --
> Jeff Zeitlin
> jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

He will probably not write any more stories - he is dead.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 16:32:11 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Some Astronomy Questions that relate to Astrogation

>Yeah, really nice hook.  Some sleazy guy sells the PC's "bargain
>basement"  info in 1105.  Just happens to be from 1st survey.

My PCs experienced that. Their copy of the Spinward marches data lacked a
system called Jesedipere despite it being on the map. I (the ref) asked the
players how much they paid for the data and they said "nothing" as it came
with the ship. "Figures" was my reply. (The data was a photocoy from
Spinward marches campaign that lacks data for Jesedipere, the place for the
final showdown in my version of The Traveller Adventure)


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 22:42:54 -0600
From: "Chris Miller" <ironstar@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Critical Hits and +D-D

>As a (possibly humorous) aside...I had one combat I ran where the PCs where
in
>a building after having blown an ambush ona Soviet supply convoy.  A
brand-new
>first time player leaned out the 2nd story window to fire a weapon and took
a
>30mm round right to the forehead!!!  I tried very hard to take it back, but
he
>refused to let me... he said "thats just the breaks of the game"  Needless
to
>say, a new character was unfortunately in order...but he was a very good
sport
>about it.
>
>And it certainly got everyone elses attention!
>
>DustyLV769@aol.com
>
- ------------> Well...I had something similar...rolled up new PC, worked up a
background, invested several hours, first session of a campaign , etc. Well,
"Smilin' Jack" was in the front seat of a humvee going up to parley with
some hostiles in BRDM's blocking the road - talks broke down and we took a
KPV to the HEAD. Now when are our boys going to get those armored
windshields...?
    Again, not thrilled at the time, but it does make for good war stories.
Our ref never was good at the "stealth fudge", though I've tried to tell
him...most newbies get discouraged real quick when that happens...

Chris Miller

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 16:35:42 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Translator failure

><<Harold D Hale wrote:
> Speaking of confusion, does anyone have any stories about players
>attempting to use translator programs during encounters with new aliens and
>roll spectacular failure?  How do you handle this?
>>>

There's a picture in World builders handbook of a Virushi failing a
translation roll (he breaks the translation device).


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 10:36:30 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: From The Archives (Was Imperium Map Question)

In a message dated 98-02-04 01:39:12 EST, you write:

<< 
 Is this open to everybody?  If so, what address should I send to?
 
  >>
Limited Time Offer! While Supplies Last! Open To Everyone!

Yes, I'll fill this order for anyone as long as the components last.

Marc Miller
1418 North Clinton Blvd
Bloomington IL 61701
USA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 10:36:47 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: From The Archives (Was Imperium Map Question)

In a message dated 98-02-04 00:55:58 EST, you write:

<< 
 To what address should we send our eager requests?
 
 - Bill
 
  >>
Limited Time Offer! While Supplies Last! Open To Everyone!

Yes, I'll fill this order for anyone as long as the components last.

Marc Miller
1418 North Clinton Blvd
Bloomington IL 61701
USA

------------------------------

Date: Wed,  4 Feb 1998 11:49:31 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert N Harris <rh1i+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re:chair dogs

Excerpts from mail.TML: 3-Feb-98 Traveller-digest V1998 #97 by
Traveller-digest@mpgn.co 
> And I wish Herbert would write more stories in this series.  N.B.

Unfortunately, Frank Herbert is dead.
He had been writing more in his Dune series and died after the 6th(I
think novel). There was obviously to have been another.

Rob Harris

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 12:56:33 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Brocolli - was +D-D Discussion (renamed)

>> From: Richard A. Flores <cybernot@gte.net>
>> >If you are going to do something that "socially unacceptable", you
>> >might as well get a few sides of K'kree.
>> I have considered that myself.  I still wanna know do they taste like
>> chicken or beef?
>
>No man, they taste like lamb. ;<)

No, lamb, they taste like Man. <insert obligatory smiley here>

Pete


Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"Groats!?!  I *hate* Groats!"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 13:44:42 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Broccoli (Word for 'eating intelligent beings')

>Leonard Erickson writes:
>>We don't *have* a term for "eating a member of another intelligent
>>species".
>
>Xenophagy? Though I guess the 'xeno' alone wouldn't convey the sapience
>of the eatee ;-).

Hmmm, We know that "Xenophilia" is already taken, and eating isn't usually
involved (although biting might be).  The meaning of Xenophobia is well
established by the 1980's video game of the same name, and has its place in
Traveller.

I like your ending; -phage is one that eats, and -phagia is eating of a
specified substance or in a specified manner (according to the American
Heritage Dictionary btw).

So probably Xenophagia is eating of and a Xenophage is one who eats aliens.

This does not, as you point out, convey the desire to eat intelligent
beings.  I can see a (human) cult around eating intelligent beings in the
belief that this makes the eater intelligent (I won't get into the
possibility that, for some alien species, this may be true).

How about "Sophophagia" and "Sophophage", or "Sapiphagia" and "Sapiphage".

I think the latter is easier to say.  A cursory search found no other
prefix roots that are readily applicable.  Suggestions welcomed.

Now, "homo-" means "same", and, to my suprise, "homophagia" or its related
words are not listed in the dictionary.  This could be the act of eating
one's own race (the word cannibal is based on the name of a tribe in the
Pacific Islands and has ritualistic implications, rather than casual
consuption).

"Sophont" is used in scifi, meaning "intelligent being" but is not present
in the AHD or on Webster's on-line dictionary in that form.  The word is
based on the Greek "sophos", menaing clever, and lending meaning to the
word 'sophistry' and sopohmore' (which AHD says is 'sophos' wise + 'moros'
foolish...sounds about right).  Sapient is listed as meaning "having great
wisdom".

Incidentially, I would take the view that there are races who (like humans)
would be deeply offended and go to war over eating members of their race,
and others that would not care a bit, even to the point of not objecting to
killing of other members of the race (as long as they, themselves are left
alone) to do so.  "After all, their raised in captivity just for this
purpose."

Pete


Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"K'kree!?!  I *hate* K'kree!"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 13:55:24 EST
From: RSpake2064@aol.com
Subject: TravList] re- a call for starshipwrights, ship designs needed...

hello all...
im working on a traveller champaign that takes place in an alternate
historical setting of traveller...  and i was hopeing someone out there would
know were i could find some TL-10 to TL-12 warships....   i already have ideas
of what they look like, infact i am working on a set of drawings for the game
and currently working on one of the major battlegroups preparing for an
assault.

i need designs for the following ship types:

Milatry ships:
Dreadnought (these monsters are ment only for one thing...  the massive fire
power that is needed during planetary assaults- prime weapons are spinal
weapons such as Mass Drivers...  Heavily Armoured, Heavily Armed, but slow and
manuvers like a drunk and overweight cow)
    these behemoths are older in technology levels- thou they have undergone  
    massive refits to keep them combat ready...  crews vary from 400 to 600 
    personnel, plus 40 to 60 fighter pilots, 100 marines for use as security
and   
    planetary assaults.  

Fleet Carrier (carries between 85 to 125 fighters, used in larger battlegroups
to supply larger interface support and fighter cover for larger capital ships
like the dreadnought who are vulenerable to enemy fighters)
   crew total of 350 to 455 personnel, plus the pilots and support personnel
for the 
   carried fighter craft

Carrier (carries between 40 to 85 fighters, used for multiple purposes from
commerce raiding to operations in flanking attacks)
   crew total of 225 to 360 personnel, plus the pilots and support personnel
for the 
   carried fighter craft

Battleship
   crew total of 350 to 455 personnel, plus 150 marines for use in boarding
actions
   and ground combat.

Battlecruiser (used for independent operations, such as commerce raiding and
flanking attacks)
   crew total of 225 to 360 personnel, plus 50 marines for use in boarding
actions.

Heavy Cruiser
     crew total of 160 to 220 personnel, plus 25 marines for use in boarding
actions

Cruiser (used for the 'meat' of most battlegroups..  heavily armed, good
speed, and moderate armour.. they provide support for the slow capital ships
and large convoys that are transporting troops)
    crew consits of 80 to 140 personnel, plus an additional 25 marine boarding
party.

Frigate (used for independent operations, such as commerce raiding, picket
duty, showing the flag, and flanking attacks)
   crew size varies between 40 to 80 personnel, plus a marine boarding party
of 25.

Destoryer (escorts whose prime weapons are missles)
   these guys are primarily nothing more than large, fast missle boats that
run 
   around the convey or battlegroup they are escorting...  crew size varies
between
   20 to 30.

Stealth Ship (small ship equipted with stealth technologies- think primative
cloaking devices)
  These are the latest and cutting edge ships used by the Terrans.  extremely
small
   crews (total of 12..   pilot, co-pilot/navigatior, commander,
commun/sensor, cheif  
   weapons officer, two gunners, cheif engineers, three asst. engineers,
medical 
   officer/specialist)

Corvette (also known as a Light Escort Carrier, carries one full squadron, 6
fighters.. used only for operations in escort duties of conveys and troop
transports...  some are assigned for system defense of important areas...)

Support Vessels:
Medium Transport, Supply
Medium Transport, Troop
Heavy Transport, Vehicle
Fast Courier/Diplomatic Boat

Fighters:
Heavy Fighter (Fighter/Bombers and Torpedo Bombers)
Medium Fighter (attack fighters)
Light Fighter (interceptor fighters)

Civilian Vessels:
Tramp Frieghter (think of a free trader or better yet.. the Millienium Falcon,
used by
    independent traders and smugglers)
Bulk Frieghter (big, slow and ugly... but they carry a lot of junk, good for
the small  
    business person out for a fast buck)
Armed Merchantman (big, fast, and beautiful.. used mostly by big corps and 
   national governments for important cargoes...)
Pleasure Yacht (just what it says...  a private starship used by the wealthy
for 
   startravel...  many diffrent designs and sizes...  some are modified for
use by 
    some smugglers)
Luxury Cruise Liner (big ships that use a spin gravity belly- like the cruise
ships on
    Bablyon 5... uses older technology for its construction..  they aren't
that fast, but 
    they are an enjoyable and luxurious cruise...)
Customs Interdiction Frigate (used by the 'Coast Guard' with the systems
defense    
    boats in close defense of all systems...  keeps the smugglers on their
toes)

i dont have the FF&S sourcebook so i cant build these for my self...  cause i
think it would be better if i went ahead and built these buggers from scratch
for my game.

thanks for the help in advance...  
Richard

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 13:08:25 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Ordering T4 Products

>> I don't normally advertise, per se, however an excellent person to order
RPG
>>products off of is Kevin Knight of Sword of the Knight publications.
[snip]
>>...and S&H is only $5 regardless of the
>>size of
>>the order. And he doesn't charge you till it ships or afterwards.
>
>Another source I use for new games (at 30% off) is Titan Games.

Are these folks online?  If so, could you supply an address?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 16:15:11 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re: Chairdogs

jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin) sayeth:

>And I wish Herbert would write more stories in this series.  N.B.
>As near as I can figure, his story _The_Godmakers_ feels like it
>was/should be set in an earlier period of the same universe.

 Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but Frank Herbert died some
time ago.

From the Grolier Multimedia Encyclopedia of SF (1995 edition):

"(1920-1986) US writer born in Tacoma, Washington, and educated at the
University of Washington, Seattle. FH worked as a reporter and editor on a
number of West Coast newspapers before becoming a full-time writer. He lived
in Washington State."

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 98 21:20 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Imperium Map Question

In-Reply-To: <34D783B1.1E04EC18@bu.edu>

Stevie,

> > It is not the map that came with Deluxe Traveller (it was a Spinward
> > marches map), I think it was a poster map for shops and not available as a
> > product (I have one too).
>  
> Oh, man, did I love that Spinward Marches map.  Full color with the matte
> black.  I wonder if anyone has one of these available?  Hell, I'd settle for a
> large jpg or gif version.  I wonder how difficult to would be to make one
> (time to start playing with my CorelDraw).  :-)

A similar one came with the MT boxed set.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 14:33:08 -0700
From: Eric Holmes <holmes_eric_t@lanl.gov>
Subject: Fifth Frontier Wars Algorithms for Squadron Development

Marc:

Several years ago, I wrote you concerning the methods you used to develop
the squadron statistics for the Fith Frontier War game.  I still have that
information ...and I am wondering if I could share that with the rest of the
Traveller community?

If your desire is to reply privately, please use my home email.


Lead  --  Serve  --  Educate  
Eric T. Holmes, Safety Engineer

Science Applications Int Corp     Personal Mail:
PO Box 101    MS: G750            2113 Virgin Wood Road NE
Los Alamos, NM 87544  USA         Rio Rancho, NM 87124-6312  USA
Tel:  505-665-4894                Tel:  505-896-8061
Fax:  505-665-1887                Fax:  505-896-4484
Pgr:  505-665-0062  x104-1628
Hours:  7am - 4pm Mountain        Hours: 6pm - 9pm Mountain

holmes_eric_t@lanl.gov		  holmberg@thuntek.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 15:47:08 -0600 
From: "Reed DE (David)  at MSXSSC" <DR200282@shellus.com>
Subject: RE: TravList] re- a call for starshipwrights, ship designs needed ...

Richard spaketh:
> im working on a traveller champaign that takes place in an alternate
> historical setting of traveller...  and i was hopeing someone out there
would
> know were i could find some TL-10 to TL-12 warships....   i already have
> ideas
> of what they look like, infact i am working on a set of drawings for the
game
> and currently working on one of the major battlegroups preparing for an
> assault.
> 
> i need designs for the following ship types:
[big snip]

Wow.  Now that's a campaign!  Honestly, though, do you actually need to know
all about EVERY SINGLE ship?  How many PCs/players do you have?  Are you
writing for "Traveller: The Movie" yet?  Heh.  It sounds like you're putting
together the artwork, why not just give generalities and spend time only on
the ships you actually need?  "The Lewinski-class 'missile' frigate
displaces about 1200 tons, has twin..."  You get the picture?

That'd make for one helluva campaign binder, though.  And *long* battles if
that many fleet resources are involved...

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
David Reed          Shell Services International          713.245.2656
Infrastructure Technology Services                   dreed@shellus.com

"Surely truth leads to virtue, and virtue leads to paradise." -Bukhari
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 15:49:03 +0000
From: "Tim" <tim@premier.net>
Subject: Trans-Core-Rally

THE RACE IS ON

For several months there have been  a rumors of a Trans-Core-Rally
sponsored by the ISBA, we are now pleased to announce that the rally
will take place.  The exact date has yet to be announced but the ISBA
is now accepting entries for the contest.   This is a Role Playing
adventure on an epic scale : )

The back ground is a Milieu Zero setting using mostly T4 rules with a
few exceptions.  The Core sector  will be the one found in Milieu Zero

1: Travel rules will be based on a modified Mega Traveller: Starship
Operator's Manual system

2: Combat will be done using Joe Walsh's and Eris Reddoch's Role
Playing Space Combat System V.095

3: I have some modified Broker rules that I will be using to make them
more realistic.

Starship Design, cost and crewing will be done using QSDS, SSDS, both
FF&S  i.e. same as THUDDD.

I hope to run this across the ISBA role-playing list, e-mail, IRC,
snail mail, phone and from my web site over acourse of 5 months or so.

I have drastically shorten this message to save band width so for more
information contact me at tim@premier.net.  If you are on the ISBA
list more information will be forth coming.




Tim Reynolds
tim@premier.net (play)
www.premier.net/~tim (play)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:18:42 EST
From: RSpake2064@aol.com
Subject: Re: TravList] re- a call for starshipwrights, ship designs needed...

in answer to the scope of this champaign.

yes, its a real large undertaking...  my players are going to be playing the
movers and shakers in what is going to be my Traveller Universe's Frist
Interstellar war.  

They will be playing several ship captains and command crews(and flag officers
at a later date in the champaign) in the opening stages of the First
Interstellar War.  The Terran Confederate Navy has had form 2109 to 2290 to
build itself up and get combat experence with its fighting against several
smaller spacegoing powers (they fought and destroyed the war capacity of a
Genocidial race who had attempted to wipe out several other races.... yes, i
stole that one from Bablyon 5).

The Terran Confederation is a loose confederation of the Earth's nations and
their colonies (think of the 2300Ad setting with a Confederate Congress and
Confederate President that is made up of the world leaders of the various
nations).  

The Confederate Navy is still made up of the Individual National Navies, just
under the combined Confederate Naval High Command (whose leaders are the best
flag officers that the Terrans can find).  

I am combineing aspects of 2300Ad, Bablyon 5 and Traveller itself.   

if you want anymore information on the champaign, drop me a line....

richard a spake

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 98 22:36 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Justice...sort of...at last...

In-Reply-To: <l03110703b0fd57111811@[194.119.133.77]>

SD,

> >_The Annililik Run_ and _Missions of State_ arrived this morning - a
> >pleasant surprise, because this is when they were *supposed* to arrive.
> >These *should* be my freebies...I'll wait and see if anything appears on my
> >next CC bill.
>  
> The Annililik Run *won't* be a pleasant surprise when you read it... ;-)

Hey, if it's free I don't care *how* crap it is!
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 98 22:36 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Justice...sort of...at last...

In-Reply-To: <34D85509.41C67EA6@uni-trier.de>

V.A.G,

> MoS is out? What in it?

Scenarios for or involving Nobles. Sorry, can't be more specific yet 
'cos I haven't read it yet!
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 17:30:37 -0500
From: Daniel Ray Lane <drlane@edgenet.net>
Subject: Re: Ping

V.A.G wrote:
> 
> Help: Does anybody get my messages to the TML? I didn´ t see the ones I
> posted for the last 2-3 weeks!
> I haven´ t set my specs to noack! What´ s going on?

Yep.  Got this one.

- -Dan Lane

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 98 22:36 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Chairdogs (Was: Initial Colonization Considerations I ...)

In-Reply-To: <v02140b01b0fe39145ff9@[192.121.125.205]>

Anders,

> > And I wish Herbert would write more stories in this series.  N.B.
>  
> He will probably not write any more stories - he is dead.

Never stopped Asimov, Hubbard, Tolkien, etc
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 18:47:06 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: [TTL] HEPlaR questions...

At 02:48 PM 2/4/98 -0800, Edward Swatschek wrote:
>> Not completely true.  I remember it specifically stating HEPLaR
>> requiring "Hot Fusion" in FF&S Mark 1, Mod 1.
>
>I've got FF&S1 in front of me, and it states "It may be added to 
>any power plant by adding a heat exchanger recombustion chamber to 
>the plant." (pg 70).  Do they contradict this elsewhere in the book?

No.  There are two "versions" of FF&S1.  There is the version as-printed,
and there's the Mk.1 Mod.1 version (basically, the as-printed version plus 
several pages of updates and errata).

At least in theory, FF&S2 is based on FF&S1 Mk.1 Mod.1; but there are a few
instances (such as one equation in the gauss gun sequence) where errors
were perpetuated from FF&S1 as originally printed.



wildstar@qrc.com
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It's Science Fiction, if, presuming technical competence on the part of
 the writer, he genuinely believes it could happen." --- John W. Campbell

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 14:12:47 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Jump and Gravity Wells

>Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 00:11:37 -0600
>From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
>Subject: Re: Jump and Gravity Wells
...
>Now, I'll grant you that if it's a star like Sol and you don't have the fuel
>to skirt it, you could be stuck in port or orbit for over 18 weeks.  With
>that kind of delay, it would be worth you time (and credits) to make
>arrangements for mid-flight refueling.

  You could also jump to the outer system (Neptune, Pluto, wherever),
refuel (GG or fuel station) and then jump "around" the system primary.
Same effect, but much more efficient if you don't have thrusters?

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #99
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