Traveller-digest      Sunday, December 29 1996      Volume 1996 : Number 795



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

RE: Laundry, Freshers and Water 
Re: Problems with Starships
Re: Ship construction
Re: JTAS subscriptions
RE: FF&S Programs
Re: Routine Maintenance
RE: FF&S Programs
A new look for the Silly Era....
Re: Interstellar taxes
JTAS subscriptions (possible relationship)
Re: Jumpspace and Psionics
Re: SSDS Armor rating error
Re: JTAS subscriptions (possible relationship)
Re: JTAS subscriptions (possible relationship)
Re: JTAS subscriptions (possible relationship)
Broken Links
RE: JTAS subscriptions (possible relationship) 
Re: JTAS subscriptions (possible relationship)
Pricing

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 11:45:47 -0500 (EST)
From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@UDel.Edu>
Subject: RE: Laundry, Freshers and Water 

In Reply to Your Message of Fri, 27 Dec 1996 19: 25:31 +1100
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 11:45:46 -0500
From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@brahms.udel.edu>

: If you'd like to get a copy, it costs - US$7 for the print-on-paper version
: (includes postage) and US$5 for the PDF electronic version (which does have
: the advantage of cutting out return "voyage time" for the reply *if* you
: can handle a 400k email attachment!). Anyone who wants more details,
: message me and enquire!

Just a quick question about the electronic version.  Can I print it out
or has printing it been disabled?  If printing has been disabled, is
there any way that I can get a copy which allows printing?

Thanks.

       --Jerry

8) Jerry Alexandratos                %  "Nothing inhabits my    (8 
8) darkstar@strauss.udel.edu         %   thoughts, and oblivion (8
8) darkstar@canary.pearson.udel.edu  %   drives my desires."    (8

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 12:51:23 -0500
From: "Chris Cox" <chriscox@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Problems with Starships

Phil,

Could you please tell me where it says that passengers get 1dton of
cargo space with their passage, so that I may check it out.

The deal with the rescue balls is that they, obviously, aren't
included in the design of the Luxury Liner.  It would seem the Don in
keeping with the over all mediocre job (and I'm being polite) that
was done on Starship wrote the bit on rescue balls but couldn't be
bothered to see that ships designed by other people were consistent
with it.

I'm not sure how you figured out that a 5000dton ship needs 2000dtons
of fuel for Jump 2.  I come up with only 1000dtons.  However, looking
at the stats for the Luxury Liner this is the only fuel on board. 
Kinda makes you wonder how they keep the power on.

As far as the size of luxury accommodations being laughable, I'd like
to know what is your basis for comparision? The luxury accommodations
for the Graf Zeppelin's 20 passengers was about only 16dtons and they
spent as much as four days between landings in this space.

Chris Cox
(chriscox@ix.netcom.com)
The Draconis Cluster Traveller pages
(http://users.aol.com/yanbeck/trav.htm)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 19:03:24 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Ship construction

Michael Nutt writes:
>My comment above about "fiddling with the cost" was meant to reflect on the
>fact that, if you get 1.8 weeks worth of  work done in each week, while only
>*paying* for 1.0 weeks worth, you're getting a big price break... your total
>price paid drops to around 56% of list cost for the ship. *That* big a break
>would bother me, as a referee.

I can't make out whether you think that this is the way the TCS rules work
or not. If you do think so, then you're mistaken. Familiarity with a ship
type (what you would call better scheduling) will allow you to do 1.4 weeks
work per week, but it will also cost you 1.4 weeks cost per week. And if
you increase the speed by paying 1.2 times the basic cost, you do 1.2 weeks
work in 1 week, but at the cost of 1.2*1.2 times the basic cost per week.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 19:34:17 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: JTAS subscriptions

Bryan Borich writes:

>      As far as I know the $11.20 cost was for a year's sub. From what I
>understand Leroy Guatney recieved a statement with that chaarge on it, when
>he asked Marc who to contact, I believe Marc told him Courtney (or whomever),
>that person stated that since IG doesn't have a 100,000 subscibers they'd
>have to charge extra for S&H.

You know, if they really can't afford to pay for such a mistake and prefer
angering their customers to swallowing the costs, it's absolutely amazing 
that they still (Dec 28th) haven't changed the offer on IG's web pages. I'm
looking at it right now, and the subscription is still $30 with an asterisk
marking it as an item that does not require a shipping charge.

You know, under Danish law such an offer is legally binding until changed.
Is that not the case under US law?

And I just can't understand how any businessman could make himself believe
that just adding to the charge without consulting the customer would be a
proper thing to do.

>...Obviously someone didn't have any idea of what they were doing, and we're
>having to pay for it (and obviously someone still doesn't know what they
>doing).

It certainly appears so...



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"I know there are some people in the world who do not tolerate their
fellow human beings, and I just can't _stand_ people like that!"
                                (after Tom Lehrer)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 14:18:43 -0500
From: Eric Freitas <edf@atlantic.net>
Subject: RE: FF&S Programs

I'm thinking of doing something along this vein to make my own
designing easier, but am worried that I'd be infringing on 
copyrights and such.  Is there any conflict of interest here?

Eric

- ----------
From: 	NODUI@worldnet.att.net[SMTP:NODUI@worldnet.att.net]
Sent: 	Thursday, December 19, 1996 2:02 AM
To: 	traveller-digest@MPGN.COM
Subject: 	FF&S Programs

Has anyone made any programs to use in Fire, Fusion and Steel?  I'm
mostly looking for something to put ships together with.

Jon Souza
NoDUI@worldnet.att.net

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 13:29:52 -0600
From: Ernest N Rowland <erowland@ionet.net>
Subject: Re: Routine Maintenance

The discussion of repairs and spare parts makes me think of a modern-day
problem that will probably be a part of the future - theft of starships for
spare parts!  Or more likely, theft from spare-parts depots (since a complete
ship is so valuable in it's own right, why strip it?) and a huge black-market
economy based on hard-to-find spares.

The more commonplace a ship type is, the easier it will be to find spare parts 
for, and conversely, the bigger target it will be for other people looking for 
spare parts (supply and demand)!

I can see it now:

   The crew is in a class B (or less) starport after weeks of travelling, but 
   someone has to guard the ship from scavengers, and someone has to scrounge 
   around the starport for good 'deals' on spares...

   Or that disgruntled crewmember has walked out with some critical part 
   because she knows she will have no trouble selling it to the locals - 
   perhaps for resale back to this same ship when it's loss is discovered!

Seedy starports on planets with low law levels would become notorious for 
these kinds of activities.  I would expect class A starports to have a 
reputation to maintain and have very good security and possibly a registry of 
ship parts (serial numbers on everything, like modern vehicles) and this might 
be a part of keeping their Class A rating.

8-)
Ernest N Rowland
erowland@ionet.net
"The flag is solid red, except where a thin ring-shaped hole has been cut
out of it, through which one can see the sky."-DRH

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 12:07:19 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: RE: FF&S Programs

>I'm thinking of doing something along this vein to make my own
>designing easier, but am worried that I'd be infringing on
>copyrights and such.  Is there any conflict of interest here?

It's my understanding that the main time you have to worry about this is if
you want to charge for the program.  As long as it is released as Freeware,
I don't believe there is a problem.  The perfect example is a character
generator.  A lot of people have written them for Traveller, and they are
all Freeware (I think).  If you want to charge for it, then you have to
make an agreement with whoever owns the rights (which is probably a lot
more trouble than it's worth).

			Zane


| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast          |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Mac Programmer            |
+----------------------------------+---------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne, and Traveller Role Playing   |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/                      |

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 13:41:03 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: A new look for the Silly Era....

My wife and I have spent the last few hours updating the look of all my
webpages, with special attention to the Traveller material.  I invite
everyone to check it all out, and *please* give us your opinions - and, more
importantly, any submissions you may come up with.

My homepage is:

http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/

If you want to go directly to the Traveller stuff, pick

http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

+-----------------------------------------------------+
|     Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net     |
|        Professional Driver - Traveller Guru         |
|           http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/            |
|*****************************************************|
|         Keep on dancing through to daylight,        |
|            Greet the morning Sun in song            |
|  No one noticed that the band's all packed and gone |
|  Was it ever here at all?  But we kept on dancing.. |
+-----------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 17:34:00 -0500
From: "Chris Cox" <chriscox@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Interstellar taxes

Hans Rancke wrote:
> You're making a perfectly natural mistake here, but a mistake nonetheless.
> Taxes can't be sent from one planet to another unless you have lots of
> cargo ships to carry valuable stuff between them. 

and later says:
> When Mikesh "pays" umpteen
> million credits to the Imperium it dosen't actually send anything more than 
> a message saying "We'll do umpteen billion credits worth of work for you for
> free". 

So are you saying that Mikesh never pays taxes but only agrees to do
work at a later date for the Imperium?  If so who ends up paying the
salaries for the Imperial Navy?  I don't know how things work in the
rest of the world, but here in the U.S. taxes are deducted from my
paycheck and electronically transferred to the government. Then
government budgets out these funds and then government employees,
contractors, etc. receive checks.  At no time is it necessary to
transfer valuable stuff, and is actually impractical to do so.  I
don't see why this won't work on an interstellar basis.  

<snippage>
> In the meantime Mikesh has umpteen million credits worth of sceduled 
> maintenance that is not going to be needed after all because the ships aren't 
> there any more. If you think the brevet admiral who has been left in charge 
> of Imperial forces in Corridor is going to let that capacity go to waste, 
> you're sadly mistaken.

This is exactly what will happen.  The Admiral left in command of
Corridor will not start spending funds that he doesn't have.

> And even if he is such a chump surely the Mikesh 
> government will find good use for the available starship construction 
> capacity (Come to think of it, they will HAVE to build more ships unless 
> they want a major recession).

I think that a either a recession or maybe just an economic downturn
is what will happen (depending on how much of the economy is based on
ship maintenance).  Those workers would become unemployed and would
then need to seek employment elsewhere.  This is how it worked for me
when I went from building missiles to my current job at an investment
bank.  Your suggestion that the government switches ship maintenance
capacity to ship building capacity despite a lack of funds would
cause inflation, which in turn could lead to the recession that you
were trying to avoid in the fist place (I'm not an expert on
economics, so if someone who is would care to comment it would be
appreciated)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 01:17:58 +0000
From: Garry Ward <Garry.E.Ward@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: JTAS subscriptions (possible relationship)

With all the discussion about the unexpected shipping and handling charges
on JTAS subscriptions and other product problems, this little item buried in
the business section of my local paper may prove to be interesting reading.

- --begin quoted article--
WASHINGTON - Mattel Inc. has agreed to pay $146,286 penalty for failing to
deliver $80 collectible Barbie dolls on time.

Federal Trade Commission rules require companies that sell merchandise by
mail or telephone to deliver items when they promised or to offer customers
the opportunity for a refund.

Mattel did neither, the FTC ruled.

A court must still approve the agreement before it becomes final.

- --end quoted article--

I would hope that who ever is now handling business management for Imperium
Games is aware of FTC rules and takes whatever steps they need to conform to
them. Unexpected legal problems contributed to the loss of GDW; I do not
want to see this repeated. 

Garry
 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 19:17:20 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Jumpspace and Psionics

At 05:09 pm 12/25/96 PST, Leonard Erickson said:
>In mail you write:
>
>> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>> I decided that I wanted to read "The Demolished Man". And was *very*
>>> unhappy to discover that it is not in stock at any of the bookstores I
>>
>>         Try the Science Fiction Book Club (www.sfbc.com); I just got _both_ of
>> them.
>
>I'm on a *very* limited budget. And I don't want to get into the usual
>SF Boookclub mess where I forget to return a card or return one late
>and wind up owing for books I don't want. Or is it now possible to just
>order books from them without the monthly selections bit?

	I've heard rumors that some of these book/music clubs will allow you to
switch your membership from "send selection unless refused" to "don't send
selection unless requested." I don't know if SFBC does that--check out the
web site and ask them. They respond very quickly, as I found out when I
ordered a book for which I didn't have the code.
- --________________________________________________________________
   Dave Golden                           PGP Public Key available 
   goldendj@usa.net     http://www.usa.net/~goldendj/default.html

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 19:17:24 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@usa.net>
Subject: Re: SSDS Armor rating error

At 02:51 pm 12/26/96 -0500, Chris Cox said:
>I haven't seen any mention of this error since Starships came out. 
>Unless I'm mistaken, Armor rating for ships created using the SSDS

	You're not mistaken. That slipped by us.

>need to be multiplied by 10 to make them compatable with ships
>created with the QSDS.  Basically the paragraph for calculating a
>ship's USP armor rating should read something like this:
>
>Armor
>Convert the armor value chosen using the USP Conversion chart below
>and then multiply by 10.

	Correct.
- --________________________________________________________________
   Dave Golden                           PGP Public Key available 
   goldendj@usa.net     http://www.usa.net/~goldendj/default.html

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 21:57:00 -0500
From: Charlie <Brreclus@spectra.net>
Subject: Re: JTAS subscriptions (possible relationship)

Garry Ward wrote:
> 
> With all the discussion about the unexpected shipping and handling charges
> on JTAS subscriptions and other product problems, this little item buried in
> the business section of my local paper may prove to be interesting reading.
> 
> --begin quoted article--
> WASHINGTON - Mattel Inc. has agreed to pay $146,286 penalty for failing to
> deliver $80 collectible Barbie dolls on time.
> 
> Federal Trade Commission rules require companies that sell merchandise by
> mail or telephone to deliver items when they promised or to offer customers
> the opportunity for a refund.
> 
> Mattel did neither, the FTC ruled.
> 
> A court must still approve the agreement before it becomes final.
> 
> --end quoted article--
> 
> I would hope that who ever is now handling business management for Imperium
> Games is aware of FTC rules and takes whatever steps they need to conform to
> them. Unexpected legal problems contributed to the loss of GDW; I do not
> want to see this repeated.
> 
> Garry
> 
Gee why don't we all get Lawyers and put IG out of business. Then those
bastards wont take all that extra cash for trips to Club Med. We can
fuck them up so bad that they go out of business an we wont have to buy
anymore of their crappy games. Get real folks. What was that line
casting stones or was it glass houses.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 22:12:22 -0600
From: sam thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Re: JTAS subscriptions (possible relationship)

At 09:57 PM 11/27/96 -0500, Charlie <Brreclus@spectra.net> wrote:
<Snip>
>> 
> Gee why don't we all get Lawyers and put IG out of business. Then those
>bastards wont take all that extra cash for trips to Club Med. We can
>fuck them up so bad that they go out of business an we wont have to buy
>anymore of their crappy games. Get real folks. What was that line
>casting stones or was it glass houses.
>
Charlie, 

The point that is being made is that "questionable"(understatement) business
practices that IG has made in the past, will only drive away the potential
"new" customer, and frustrated "old" traveller customers. So if "we" don't
let them catch "Hell" when they screw up, they will not even think of
changing their "Questionable" practices. As to your line about "extra cash"
well send me $50.00, reason being I asked you too, I promise nothing and
will deliver nothing, if you do that will make you a really be sucker.
Standing up for your "Legal" rights is not throwing stones. If a company
depends upon "illegally" obtaining money from customers (Chumps or Suckers)
then no matter that they are the "Only" ones producing traveller, they
deserve to go under.!!!! Would you do business in store that kept your
deliberately change or short changed you after a purchase? I really hope
not. As to IG's recently released produces, well they over priced
considerably. The CSC is $24.00 US and has only 98 pages. It does have some
extremely useful stuff inside but it should have been priced at most $12.00
US. If you purchase CSC and Alien Archive at the same time the total will
come to about $50.00 US. Even TSR has boxed sets for less than $50.00 US. I
have looked at both CSC and Alien Archive, I reluctancy bought only CSC. The
reason I did not buy both "PRICE" vs value contained within. I have had long
conversation with the manager of chain of game stores in my area. He does
like IG's products for the following reasons

1. Price of the products, more customers than he would care to count has
been put off buying due the price.
2. Initial shipments were under what he ordered, this not due to the
distributors but due to IG methods of production and distribution.
3. Restocks take entirely too much time, his chain received 6 hardbacks
early this fall. Most stores got one hardback, Softbacks were unavailable
thru any distributer. It took two months to get the balance of his initial
order, and another month after that to a partial on his reorder. But most
are still sitting on his shelves due reason 1 above. Total sales of T4
merchandize since sept 7 hardbacks, 2 softbacks, 2 Starships, 2 CSC and
Alien Archives none. This for a chain of multiple stores. 95% of these sales
were to Traveller "Old Guard". 

I will probably wait to buy Alien Archives at the discounted quarterly
"warehouse" sale that is held to get rid of "Shelf Queens". 

As for IG T4 necrosis has set in and not treated will be fatal. IG makes
some the GDW mistakes look like strokes of genius. To Dave, and Loren
formerly of GDW, you have my apology, you really did do a better job on
Traveller.

Sinbad Sam
sinbad@dfw.net
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 21:41:47 -0800 (PST)
From: "Peter J. Miller" <pmiller@linkeasy.net>
Subject: Re: JTAS subscriptions (possible relationship)

>deliberately change or short changed you after a purchase? I really hope
>not. As to IG's recently released produces, well they over priced
>considerably. The CSC is $24.00 US and has only 98 pages. It does have some
>extremely useful stuff inside but it should have been priced at most $12.00
>US. If you purchase CSC and Alien Archive at the same time the total will

I agree with this.  Eariler on, I had once said that IG's products were not
expensive compared with other products available on the market.  However,
after seeing a 98 page supplement released for $24 US I can't believe it
(the only products above this, is the new SWRPG, $44 canadian!!!).  

Here a few examples, from the 1997 TSR product catalogue (as a side-note,
did everyone hear of TSR's layoffs of 24 people just before Christmas.
Rumour has it they are in some financial difficulties).  Some of these
products fall near the IG prices, but most don't.

"The Sea Devils" -- $20 US (96 pages, bound in poster, full colour)
"College of Wizardry" -- $15.95 US (96 pages, full colour map sheet attached)
"Of Ships and Sea" -- $20 US (128 pages)

And, for some Traveller competition in the SF market, their new Alternity game:

Alternityy Player Handbook -- $30 US (Hardcover, 256 pages, full colour)
    "      Rulemaster Guide -- $25 US (Hardcover, 224 pages, full colour)
Star Drive Alien Compendium -- $20 US (96 pages)

Espcially, look at the two rulebooks!  Both are hardcover, and cheaper than
the softcover version of T4, and are bigger as well!

I think IG has definitely got to do something about it's pricing, or they'll
soon find themselves relying solely on the sale of T4 to diehard fanatics of
Traveller.  I myself have not purchased Starships, CSC or Alien Archive, and
don't plan to at the current prices.  I'll probably pick up M0, put it'd
better be good.

/\___________________________Peter John Miller____________________________/\
||           "Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night..."          ||
||     Traveller, IG materials and the Home of the Imperium Games FAQ!    ||
||            On Peter's World - http://www.dragonfire.net/~pm/           ||
\/------------------------------------------------------------------------\/
   Great graphics, and the LOWEST prices on the net - www.irevolution.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 22:49:16 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@usa.net>
Subject: Broken Links

	I was just verifying a couple of the links on my website, and found some
that don't work--apparently some Traveller pages went off the air, moved,
or I just had the wrong URL. Can anybody give me hand? All of the following
apparently don't work.

	http://www.ifi.uio.no/~tommyg/Traveller/
	http://www.datasync.com/~tiger/trav/bard.htm
	http://eeyore.lv-hrc.nevada.edu/~indy/traveller.html

- --________________________________________________________________
   Dave Golden                           PGP Public Key available 
   goldendj@usa.net     http://www.usa.net/~goldendj/default.html

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 01:03:41 -0500 (EST)
From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@UDel.Edu>
Subject: RE: JTAS subscriptions (possible relationship) 

In Reply to Your Message of Sat, 28 Dec 1996 21: 41:47 PST
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 01:03:41 -0500
From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@strauss2.udel.edu>

: Here a few examples, from the 1997 TSR product catalogue (as a side-note,
: did everyone hear of TSR's layoffs of 24 people just before Christmas.
: Rumour has it they are in some financial difficulties).  Some of these
: products fall near the IG prices, but most don't.

I think that TSR is a very bad example.  They are a *huge* company.
Despite what people around here want to believe, IG is a *small*
company.  If you want to compare prices accurately, you need to compare
them against other *small* companies.  After all IG is definitely not in
the same league as TSR, SJG, or WW.  Better comparisons for them would
be DP9, Deadalus Games, Myrmidon Press.  Even WEG which could be
considered a *midsize* company has prices similar to all of these other
companies.  Look around at all the other companies that have only one or
two product lines.  You'll see that if they're still producing materials
you'll find similar prices for similar sized books.

Repeat after me--"economies of scale do exist."

       --Jerry

8) Jerry Alexandratos                %  "Nothing inhabits my    (8 
8) darkstar@strauss.udel.edu         %   thoughts, and oblivion (8
8) darkstar@canary.pearson.udel.edu  %   drives my desires."    (8

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 01:39:58 -0500
From: Charlie <Brreclus@spectra.net>
Subject: Re: JTAS subscriptions (possible relationship)

sam thomas wrote:
> 
> At 09:57 PM 11/27/96 -0500, Charlie <Brreclus@spectra.net> wrote:
> <Snip>
> >>
> > Gee why don't we all get Lawyers and put IG out of business. Then those
> >bastards wont take all that extra cash for trips to Club Med. We can
> >fuck them up so bad that they go out of business an we wont have to buy
> >anymore of their crappy games. Get real folks. What was that line
> >casting stones or was it glass houses.
> >
> Charlie,
> 
> The point that is being made is that "questionable"(understatement) business
> practices that IG has made in the past, will only drive away the potential
> "new" customer, and frustrated "old" traveller customers. So if "we" don't
> let them catch "Hell" when they screw up, they will not even think of
> changing their "Questionable" practices. As to your line about "extra cash"
> well send me $50.00, reason being I asked you too, I promise nothing and
> will deliver nothing, if you do that will make you a really be sucker.
> Standing up for your "Legal" rights is not throwing stones. If a company
> depends upon "illegally" obtaining money from customers (Chumps or Suckers)
> then no matter that they are the "Only" ones producing traveller, they
> deserve to go under.!!!! Would you do business in store that kept your
> deliberately change or short changed you after a purchase? I really hope
> not. As to IG's recently released produces, well they over priced
> considerably. The CSC is $24.00 US and has only 98 pages. It does have some
> extremely useful stuff inside but it should have been priced at most $12.00
> US. If you purchase CSC and Alien Archive at the same time the total will
> come to about $50.00 US. Even TSR has boxed sets for less than $50.00 US. I
> have looked at both CSC and Alien Archive, I reluctancy bought only CSC. The
> reason I did not buy both "PRICE" vs value contained within. I have had long
> conversation with the manager of chain of game stores in my area. He does
> like IG's products for the following reasons
> 
> 1. Price of the products, more customers than he would care to count has
> been put off buying due the price.
> 2. Initial shipments were under what he ordered, this not due to the
> distributors but due to IG methods of production and distribution.
> 3. Restocks take entirely too much time, his chain received 6 hardbacks
> early this fall. Most stores got one hardback, Softbacks were unavailable
> thru any distributer. It took two months to get the balance of his initial
> order, and another month after that to a partial on his reorder. But most
> are still sitting on his shelves due reason 1 above. Total sales of T4
> merchandize since sept 7 hardbacks, 2 softbacks, 2 Starships, 2 CSC and
> Alien Archives none. This for a chain of multiple stores. 95% of these sales
> were to Traveller "Old Guard".
> 
> I will probably wait to buy Alien Archives at the discounted quarterly
> "warehouse" sale that is held to get rid of "Shelf Queens".
> 
> As for IG T4 necrosis has set in and not treated will be fatal. IG makes
> some the GDW mistakes look like strokes of genius. To Dave, and Loren
> formerly of GDW, you have my apology, you really did do a better job on
> Traveller.
> 
> Sinbad Sam
> sinbad@dfw.net
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 Hi SS
  You might be right to get pissed off if IG had cooked up some master
plan to rip folks off for their cash. I don't think this is the case
the, first too obvious, second it is more likely to be an honest
mistake. I have been absent from the list for the past few days has IG
posted a official reply to the complaints? If not why don't we wait
before we open up with the plasma guns.
 The price question is different and separate. You may not want to pay
the price that is your choice. First answer these questions for me. What
is IG day to day expenses? How much did it cost to start up the company?
What dose it cost them to put out two products  this close together? Do
you know what part of that retail price IG puts in their pockets? After
you answer these questions then we might be able to figure what a fair
price is.
 As a store buyer I can tell you that after some intimal problems I have
had no problem with taking care of my stores needs and I wont have any
T4 queens on the shelf.
 I hope you can find a rpg you like I hope you will not bail on T4 but
at times you got to vote with your feet, see You.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 01:08:18 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph E. Walsh" <ransom@connect.iconnect.net>
Subject: Pricing

Hi,

In light of the continuing discussion of the JTAS shipping charge, as well 
as the cost of Traveller products, I'd like to offer my thoughts on those 
subjects.


JTAS Shipping Charge
====================

As mentioned previously, the folks at IG are out of the office until 
January 2.  AFAIK, they've not seen a single message in reaction to 
their move of charging for shipping.  So, it's not a surprise we haven't 
seen anything from them about that, including the lack of an update to 
the web page.

What I've done in the interim is send a representative selection 
of TML messages on this subject to Courtney's email box.  I've also sent 
him my thoughts on the subject.  And I've briefed Tim Brown about this, and 
he has said he will talk to Courtney about it when he (Courtney) returns 
on the 2nd.

At this point, I believe it was an honest mistake, rather than a 
malicious move to hurt IG's customers.  I'm hoping that, after gaining a 
full understanding of the situation and the legalities involved, Courtney 
will reverse the policy.

But, none of that will happen until Thursday at the earliest.  


Cost of Traveller Products
==========================

My thought on this is that the folks at IG will know if their products are 
overpriced, whether their customers explicitly tell them so or not.  If 
T4 and the supplements are selling well, they're not overpriced.  If they 
are not selling well, it should be determined whether price was a factor in 
that lack of performance (along with product quality, distribution, and 
so on).  But, from what I've heard, the products are selling at a good 
clip.  The evidence, therefore, suggests that the prices are not too high.

But then, I believe market forces will severely punish any company 
(outside of monopolies and oligopolies) that goes too far out of line in 
pricing its products - especially if those products are not necessities. ;)


- -Joe
______________________________________________________________________________
Joseph E. Walsh      |  Atari 8-Bit User and Programmer Since 1982
ransom@iconnect.net  |  Classic Traveller Referee Since 1983
Stuck in the '80s    |  Microsoft-Free and Loving It! :)
       .....Official Reporter of Imperium Games Product Info.....

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1996 #795
**********************************
