Subj: Traveller-digest V1999 #1501
Date: 12/15/99 5:59:46 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, December 15 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 1501
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Exploding suppressors...
SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Mantras
Re: Paintball and morality
Re: Gun Control
Re: Velocity/Vector
Re: Wearable Lawyers (was Re: Deserts)
Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Mantras
Re: Just testing...
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1500
Re: chicks with guns, and 3I porno
Marines & Cutlasses
Re: They're coming! (again)
Many threads, pick from: RASN, Imp control, tech advances, on -topic violence thread
the light hand of the Imperium (was Re: US Constitution [OT])
Hack, Cough, Die and Imp Intelligence.
RE: Gun Control
Re: Paintball is not a real gun, much less a light crew served weapon
Re: Velocity/Vector
Re: Hack, Cough, Die and Imp Intelligence.
[none]
Re: independent Terran invention of jump drive? sure
Re: technology advances
Mailing Info
Re: Full auto Pilgramage Pics...and DITZIE?!?!
Re: technology advances
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 22:33:26 GMT
From: "i Steve"
Subject: Re: Exploding suppressors...
>ObTrav: Characters with minimal firearms training do something in a
>similarly dumb vein.. like trying to load a .45 rifle with 9mm. :P
Worth a read of Iain M Banks' "Consider Phlebas" where an equivalent of HEAP
rounds were exploding when they hit the shock wave from the round before,
right back to the firer resulting in a "barrelcrash..."
A good deterrant for explosive rounds fired FA, I would have thought...
iSteve
end
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Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:37:37 +1100
From: "Hughes, Michael"
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Mantras
"If it moves, salute it.
If it doesn't move, fix it.
If it can not be fixed, paint it.
If it can not be painted, polish it.
If it can not be polished, through it overboard, it's no good."
This keeps the promotions going in the ranks becouse of all the Chiefs and
Petty Officers going over the side.
Wayne
The Roadies Mantra;
"If it's alcohol, drink it"
"If it's green, smoke it"
"If it moves, gaff it"
- - Michael
OB Traveller; Would Belters or have something similar?
"If it's stony, extract it"
"If it's ice, melt it"
"If it's carbon, curse it"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 22:43:10 GMT
From: "i Steve"
Subject: Re: Paintball and morality
>>ObTrav: Different law levels can mean wide differences in cultures, >>and
>>attitudes about other cultures. Those who live in low law
>>level environments might find higher law levels distasteful or even
>>threatening.
> Or vice versa :>
Very good point actually. As a Brit whose travelled abroad, I was a little
twitchy to see cops in the States with handguns on open display, and
seriously freaked in Paris to see French cops carrying SMGs.
ObTrav: civilian characters from high Law Level worlds would probably be
more than a little nervous whilst wandering about on some of those low Law
Level frontier planets. A possible roleplaying hook for PCs/NPCs?
iSteve
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:46:41 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: Gun Control
: RE: Gun Control
>Can we please avoid the gun control topic? There are extremely divided
>views on the subject here on the TML, as out there in the real world.
>Can't we all just get along? :)
>
>Peez
Well, it's just raged across the Space 1889 list and it seems a fixture
of the various Twilight 2000 lists. I got out of the Cyberpunk list because
it wouldn't go away, I'm on about ten lists and I'm surprised if I don't get
a gun controll post at least once a week. If not fifty. I feel sorry for the
people who get digests, they can't delete OT posts. On the other hand, I'm a
gun freak : )
Jim L.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 22:58:28 +0000
From: Andy Gibson
Subject: Re: Velocity/Vector
Leonard Erickson wrote:
>Well, I'm making the (reasonable, in my opinion) assumption that you
>"aim" your jump for a specific *location*. That is, you in effect tell
>the computer, we want to go *this* distance, in *that* direction. And
>if you don't misjump, you exit jump at the target point plus/minus a
>bit for uncontrollable "random" factors.
>
>This fits in fairly well with Mark Miller's statements that if your
>jump "line" intersects the 100 diameter limit of anything between your
>entry to jump and your planned exit, you pop out of jump there.
>
>He hasn't answered my question about *when* you pop out of jump. You
>see, if you work it out, there could be a planet in the way for only a
>few hours. So it matters if those few hours occur when the ship is in
>that part of the jump.
>
'Scuse my de-lurkng for a moment, but has any discussion here covered
the concept of a "ballistic arc" journey through jump space. This might
help explain the "7 days +/- 1 day" rule if the "up velocity" at start
of jump was constant - or if different jump numbers involved entering
different "jump spaces" each with different "gravity" and "entry/escape
velocity". Gravity wells in real space warp the real space/jump space
interface in such a scheme so that the jump space side is *smaller*. A
planet plus its gravity well becomes a very small target when "aiming"
your trajectory through jump space, so you are unlikely to exit jump in
a gravity well. The dangers of entering jump space while in a gravity
well, OTOH, are pretty evident. I realise this doesn't fit with Marc
Millers T4 pronouncement, but the effect is pretty much the same.
Cheers,
Andy
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 18:22:36 -0500
From: "DaveShayne"
Subject: Re: Wearable Lawyers (was Re: Deserts)
>Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:19:14 -0500 (EST)
>From: Kenji Schwarz
>Subject: Re: Wearable Lawyers (was Re: Deserts)
>I just realized I'd need to replace at least one OTU megacorp with A. T.
>Love, of course.
>
>Always thinking --
>
>Kenji
I'm sure I'm missing something but I keep imagining Courtney the Hun
(Or does A. T. stand for something else?)
David Shayne
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Old version - Build a better mousetrap and
the world will beat a path to your door.
New version - Build a better mousetrap and
some @$*% will build a better mouse.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
PS Which Megacorp Gets the hook?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:30:30 -0600
From: Eris reddoch
Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Mantras
"Hughes, Michael" wrote:
> OB Traveller; Would Belters or have something similar?
>
> "If it's stony, extract it"
> "If it's ice, melt it"
> "If it's carbon, curse it"
Hum, I would think the carbon compounds would be very valuable in a
belter civilization.
Eris
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:42:35 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Just testing...
Dear Folks -
Steve's reply to Doug:
>> >...to see if this screws anyone's browser up....
>>
>>Not this time! Thou hast slain the Attachment Beast!
>
>I get experience points for that right? Oh hell, wrong game....
"Oh frabjous day! Calloo callay!
I chortled (fortunately avoiding my keyboard - and Doug's list) in my joy..."
;-)
- - Hyphen
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 18:53:23 -0500
From: "DaveShayne"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1500
>Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 13:05:11 PST
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Subject: Re: technology advances
>I'm told that due to the influence of th government contractor types
>and NASA the regulations aren't real friendly to "small start up"
>companies.
But if some company decided that space was a worthwhile
investment those rules would change. All it would take is a few well
chosen "campaign contributions" and congress would fall over itself
backwards to change those regulations.
(gosub Monty Python
Are they foaming at the mouth to fall over backwards or
falling over backwards to foam at the mouth?
return)
>
>> The reasons "private enterprise" hasn't gotten into the space game
>> on a free lance basis is that nobody can figure out how to do it
>> less expensively than the "ineficient government bueraucracy."
>
>Well, I hear that part of the reason for that is that you get required
>to produce tons of paperwork to satisfy government types that you
>aren't violating their rules.
I worked for a Textbook store that serves the local comunity college.
one of the courses taught at that institution is ENG 100 - Technical
Writing. Any largish corporation will be able to swamp "Los Federales"
with more than enough paperwork to convince anybody willing to be
convinced. (My impression of NASA funcionaries - they want to be
convinced.)
>
>- --
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:54:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: chicks with guns, and 3I porno
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>You also have to remember that Jefferson and others
>are on record as having stated (essentially) that if
>the government got out of hand, the people were
>*supposed* to overthrow it by force of arms!
That is, after all, exactly what happened in the
American Revolution. The people overthrew the British
colonial government.
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:49:46 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Marines & Cutlasses
I apologise if this has been raised before but why do Marines get the
Cutlass? They never used them historically, Marines started out using
Muskets and Bayonets and even the officers used a different sword. Enlisted
Naval personnel were the main users of the Cutlass, they also used Boarding
Axes and Boarding Pikes as well all though these don't seem to be an option.
Jim L.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:01:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: They're coming! (again)
A contemporary War of the Worlds game would be very
appropriate, what with the recent losses of Mars
probes, the "meteorite" falls in Australia, the
large-scale melting of the Antarctic ice-cap ...
should you use GURPS rules or Call of Cthulhu?
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 11:01:28 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Many threads, pick from: RASN, Imp control, tech advances, on -topic violence thread
Dear Folks -
Re: The Royal Australian Space Navy
Kyle said:
>I wonder if the HMASS Melbourne would be better
>piloted than the HMAS Melbourne was (which Aussie
>ship, for ten points, sank three ships in its career,
>two Aussie and one USA?)
Perhaps you should point out that this was all in peacetime...
Funny that the Melbourne was going to be Riker's command, then we see it shot up
by the Borg...
Re: Imperial control over member states (was: US Constitution [OT])
Leonard said:
>OBTrav: Does the Imperial government ever run into this sort of
>problem. Cases where no matter *how* you interpret the law, large
>population segments on a planet will be upset to the point of riot or
>revolt?
Why do you think the Imperium has a "hands-off" approach to planetary
governments? They don't want to be part of this sort of mess any more than the
US Supreme Court seems to want to.
Re: technology advances
DaveShayne said:
>Anybody who believes that private companies are automatically
>efficient hasn't been reading their Dilbert cartoons. (yes they are just
>comics but they are only funny because they are so true.)
Please God someone tell that to our Government!!
(oh, I'm probably not supposed to say that - oh that's right, it's OK, I'm using
the offical disclaimer...)
Re: bringing violence thread back on traveller point
Gary wrote:
>[remind me sometime to explain how I used the Ford/Nazi interaction, along
(May I jump in first?)
"Consider this to be a reminder".
;-)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:13:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: the light hand of the Imperium (was Re: US Constitution [OT])
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>OBTrav: Does the Imperial government ever run into
>this sort of problem. Cases where no matter *how* you
>interpret the law, large population segments on a
>planet will be upset to the point of riot or revolt?
This doesn't happen to the Imperial government,
because it governs so little and makes almost no laws
that deal directly with people's lives. The notable
exceptions would be the Psionics Suppressions and the
decree against slavery, and these may have led to to
lose-lose situations in their time. By the 1100s,
these are non-issues.
Member states can have lots of problems of this
nature, of course.
- --Glenn
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:51:36 -0500
From: "Charlie"
Subject: Hack, Cough, Die and Imp Intelligence.
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01BF469E.EC854FC0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Folks
I am working up a new campaign scenario and I would like some opinions. =
At TL13/14 could you brew up a chemical toxin that would trigger only if =
an individual had an elevated level of some trace mineral in their body. =
A example would be a group using lead in their water supply =
infrastructure or another group exposed to some industrial byproduct =
unique to a particular type of industry.=20
Thanks
Charlie Moore
- ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01BF469E.EC854FC0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
Hi Folks
I am working up a new campaign =
scenario and I=20
would like some opinions. At TL13/14 could you brew up a chemical toxin =
that=20
would trigger only if an individual had an elevated level of some trace =
mineral=20
in their body. A example would be a group using lead in their water =
supply=20
infrastructure or another group exposed to some industrial byproduct =
unique to a=20
particular type of industry.
Thanks
Charlie Moore
- ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01BF469E.EC854FC0--
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:19:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: RE: Gun Control
>From: Ian Ferguson
>Can we please avoid the gun control topic? There are
>extremely divided views on the subject here on the
>TML, as out there in the real world. Can't we all
> just get along? :)
I thought we were getting along famously. No one has
even called anyone else "wrong" let alone a rude name.
To the extent that the subject is straying from
Traveller (lately by becoming an exegisis of United
States foundational texts), however, I support taking
the discussion off-list. To the extent that we're
talking about Traveller issues, I don't object to
analogizing from history.
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:25:39 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin
Subject: Re: Paintball is not a real gun, much less a light crew served weapon
On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:10:36 -0500 (EST), SD Mooney
wrote:
>At 21:16 -0500 13/12/99, "Terry Carlino" wrote:
>> >But it just occured to me that some PC out the *has* to be carrying a
>> >paintball gun with "napalm" ammo. Though I admit it'd be more likely in
>> >a White Wolf type game.
>>Holy water. To fight Vampires you load your paintballs with Holy Water.
>Nah, buy a crew served Super Squirter.
I've seen these! The police often use them to break up riots!
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:22:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: Velocity/Vector
>From: Charles Collin
>Just to throw my two cents in here I use a system
>where emergence from jump causes one's vector
>direction to be randomized.
This might be contradicted by Amber Zone: A Dagger at
Efate, but I'm not sure.
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:26:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: Hack, Cough, Die and Imp Intelligence.
Charlie writes:
> Hi Folks
> I am working up a new campaign scenario and I would like some opinions. At
> TL13/14 could you brew up a chemical toxin that would trigger only if an individual had an elevated level of some trace mineral in their body. A example would be a group using lead in their water supply infrastructure or another group exposed to some industrial byproduct unique to a particular type of industry.
Maybe. It depends what the trace mineral is. In general I'd consider it unlikely, however. A biological agent which triggers on some trace material is probably easier.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:32:40 -0500
From: jes8
Subject: [none]
unsubscribe traveller
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 00:31:02 +0000
From: Garry Ward
Subject: Re: independent Terran invention of jump drive? sure
At 02:46 PM 12/2/99 -0800, you wrote:
>
>
>Of course, the true story is that a Vilani ship
>crashed near Roswell, New Mexico in 1947, and the
>United States government spent a long time figuring
>out how it worked. After the United States took over
>the United Nations through domination of the World
>Trade Organization, it started a series of top-secret
>probes into nearby space to find the Vilani and learn
>their weaknesses. Once it was sure that the Vilani
>could be conquered, it allowed j-drive to be invented
>by "miners in the asteroids", who were actually a
>black ops team. Then it was short road to war and
>conquest of the Ziru Sirka. The stars had been made
>safe for Astroburger, Inc.!
>
>Of course, the true true story is that some or all of
>the preceding two stories is a Hiver manipulation
>whose true purpose and intent will not be revealed for
>some time.
>
>Of course, the really true story is that the Hivers
>are creations of Grandfather.
>
>Of course, the underlying actual truth is that
>Grandfather is a Hiver manipulation.
>
>--Glenn
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.
>Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com
>
New Heresy:
Grandfather and the Hivers are old enemies.
The war wasn't between Grandfather and his children, it was between
Grandfather and the Hivers. All of the Grandfather's children were
destroyed, Grandfather hid and the Hivers were blasted back into a pre
technological society.
And the trip switch to start the war was the Hiver's attempt to manipulate
one of the most adaptable of Grandfathers slave worker races, the Humans.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:18:26 -0600
From: Richard Wilson
Subject: Re: technology advances
At 06:20 AM 12/15/99 -0500, you wrote:
>On 12/15/1999 00:46, Bruce Macintosh wrote:
>>
>> Current tech is straining it a little; Daedalus had a
>> laser fusion drive; we can't even build a laser fusion setup
>> that gets out more energy when its on the ground filling
>> several entire buildings.
>>
>> And Daedalus was automated in spite of a hundred-year
>> mission duration; NASA can't even build something autonamous
>> that can manage to land on Mars...
>
The funny thing is though, twenty years ago NASA could do it. You
youngsters might want to look up the history of a little project called
Viking.
My question is: Is NASA's recent history just a string of bad luck, the
fruits of our "modern, improved" education system, or little gray dudes
from Zeta Reticuli getting in some target practice before the big invasion?
Richard Wilson
rtwilson@rollanet.org
========================================================================
Humanity is not something we should aspire to. It is something we should
strive to overcome.
========================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 12:48:04 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Mailing Info
Does the XTML list still function? Could someone tell me the procedure
for joining that list as well? I'm a bit lost and I'm having troubles
getting onto the majordomo site.
Jim L.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 01:53:39 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: Full auto Pilgramage Pics...and DITZIE?!?!
On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 13:48:46 -0800 (PST), Glenn Goffin
wrote:
>>So you have a much more homogenous population spread
>>far more thinly.
>
>But you do have to remember that the only people that
>the Finns traditionally dislike more than the Russians
>are the Swedes (and even among the Finns the
>Savolainen are said to think that they're superior to
>everyone else, while the Karelians are considered sort
>of like people who live in Appalachia). Still, those
>frosty northern temperaments seem to lead to a lot
>more snide jokes than drive-by shootings. (My
>relatives couldn't tell me enough Swedish jokes the
>last time I was there.)
>
Did you hear about the Finnish man who loved his wife SO MUCH he
almost told her?
;-)
================================================================================
- - Jeff Peterson j_pete@bellsouth.net
"Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy, and the
lash." - Winston Churchill
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
GCS V 3.12 d- s:+: a- C+++ UH++$ P-- L+ E-- W++ N++ o-- K- w++++(---)$ !O M-- V-
PS-- PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X+ R+ tv+ b+++ DI++ D++ G e+ h--- r+++ y+++
NOG #74 AirStar Nova 700
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:49:01 -0600
From: "Thomas Vickers"
Subject: Re: technology advances
Personally, I think NASA's problem is that their budget
is scrutinized so severely.
If Congress would give them the cash and back off, I think NASA could and
would
perform. Right now they are very safety concious and gun shy due to
failures.
Remember the little mars rover thingy? That worked. Most of NASA's stuff
works, its just
big failures that make the news.
On a strange note, anyone besides me ever notice that GDW made Zeta2
Reticuli the secret homeworld of one alien race in 2300 AD?
The very same star that fanatics claim is the home to the Greys?
TV
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1501
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