Subj: Traveller-digest V1999 #1322
Date: 11/7/99 9:25:58 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)
Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
Reply-to: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
To: traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
Traveller-digest Sunday, November 7 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 1322
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Food Sources
Re: Islamic Observances in Interstellar Space (Was: Re: [OT] Cultural Differe...
Re: Islamic Observances in Interstellar Space
Re: Marc Miller's new website for Traveller
Re: Cons On Ice Scenario Idea
Re: Wild Blue Claims
Re: Wild Blue Claims
politics & universities (was Wild Blue Claims)
Re: Dragon Magazine Archive...
Keith Supplements mailed...
Re: Marc Miller's new website for Traveller
Re: Marc Miller's new website for Traveller
Re: Food Sources
The Meaning of Words (Re: Violent Outlet (Was Re: A Day of Peace))
Re: Marc Miller's new website for Traveller
Re: Wild Blue Claims
Announcement: BITS Submissions
Re: Evolution (was ...and the drifting generation ship)
Re: Marc Miller's new website for Traveller
Re: Evolution (was ...and the drifting generation ship)
re: Equipment lists.
Re: Moslems in space...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 23:01:33 -0500
From: "Delos"
Subject: Food Sources
I was reading an article that mentioned that one of the space shuttles took
three swordfish into orbit with it to test their ability to thrive in space.
The end goal of this was to have a self-sustaining food source in future
space stations.
If this was something that has already been discussed to death, I apologize.
I only have the 4th Ed. Traveller, so forgive my ignorance if it's discussed
in a sourcebook or other rule book.
If not, does anyone have any other semi-exotic ideas for other food sources
farmed in space? I'm looking to add 'flavor' to my setting (no pun
intended.)
Thanks...
Delos
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 23:25:35 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Islamic Observances in Interstellar Space (Was: Re: [OT] Cultural Differe...
In a message dated 11/6/99 7:58:47 PM Pacific Standard Time,
j_pete@bellsouth.net writes:
<< Are K'kree kosher? ;-) >>
NO!!!!!!!Not THAT thread...:-) Feed this to the Lesbian Pirate Aslan...:-)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 21:35:19 -0700
From: cos 90
Subject: Re: Islamic Observances in Interstellar Space
>> OBTrav: What would be the food & drink restrictions in the 3I?
>
>Are K'kree kosher? ;-)
I've never known a K'kree to have meat and dairy products at the
same meal...
Glenn St-Germain § Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
cos90@powersurfr.com § http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn
"There is no longer any normal to be"
-- Gary Numan
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 22:39:03 -0600
From: Shimmergloom
Subject: Re: Marc Miller's new website for Traveller
> At 09:12 PM 11/5/99 -0500, Sword Worlder wrote:
> >I asked Marc and he said it was alright to begin publicizing the new site.
> >He has quite a bit of the work completed and I'm sure he would welcome
> >feedback on what he is doing. I for one would be interested to hear the
> >feedback and discussion happen right here on the TML, unless you think that
> >would needlessly clog the list with on-topic posts ;-)
> >
> >http://members.aol.com/Traveller
I looked at the T5 page and got the following... what ever this is. I am using
netscape. Any one got a clue?
2H%·‚ZV¸Ä}x*ÆÐÍsZymJ¯:OˆXGS
ÍS™ûH×pxš>ÒNu)F\i5*–¦¢úžgƒTa<=ZIÔœ¨ÃRøÇ)E®ª’¥õºËš¿²x‡'Ïì`£N^×ÇüPÖ—¶gL’Þþk¹¬í-æ=PûcÉb&[¸–òåe›l¯`¬÷’$?ZÙ”}¢g¸¸úSÇÖÂæßZÂÕÁ¼:£z²©‰‡±?ê.›téÎ¤*Ó”g‹
§JaZ¬å Ž>YBµ
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4ªÊ¤«Å(Rµji%*õ#N4#QJ?jºÿ
- --
- -------------------------
"How much XP do we get if we join the bandits?"
shimmer@mhtc.net
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 21:32:54 -0800
From: Richard Hough
Subject: Re: Cons On Ice Scenario Idea
>Ya know, I've been thinking about (actually Larry Niven did it first, and it
>was the thread about his books combined with this one that got me thinking
>about it!) Given the way J drive works, and the thruster limitations given
>in T4, how would you catch an STL ship?
Assuming thrust plates only work in a 100 diameter radius of a
gravity well you can extend their range by accelerating near a large
object, like a gas giant or star, then jump to where you estimate
your target will be in a week.
If even this wasn't enough space to accelerate you'd have to use
multiple jumps, probably with drop tanks so you can still jump back
into thrust plate range after your rendezvous.
I can imagine that for objects with a really high normal-space speed
(near-c rocks?) you would use several jumps with several drop tanks.
Boost the tanks to higher and higher speeds, timing them to intercept
the expected ship arrival time and speed. Each time the ship pops out
of jump it drops the spent tanks and docks with the boosted tanks,
all while accelerating, and jumps again to the next drop tank
interception point.
- --
Richard Hough
rdhough@telus.net
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 21:54:45 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Wild Blue Claims
>From: Kenji Schwarz
>Subject: Re: Wild Blue Claims
...
>> Ob Trav: Has politics corrupted Imperial Universities like it has American
>> (and I assume Anzac and European) ones?
>
>No, that's impossible because of the free market economy and concommitant
>environment of free speech in the 3I, so that ideology literally CAN'T
>tamper with the truth.
...
>This is getting hard to keep doing. People here at Harvard really talk
>like this, though. What the hell am I supposed to do?
(Gee, didn't some other ideological sorts also come up with the clever
idea of constructing an intellectual environment in which one was taught
that _their_ system was true because it was objective?)
Of course, the 3I has seen them all come and go, with only those rare
regimes that best capture the essence of the Imperial system achieving a
similar longevity. In fact, logically, the Imperium must long ago have
achieved a dynamic equilibrium, in which case even those brief upheavals
that distress the body politic from time to time are themselves part of
the process of growth and renewal...
But enough of this, we have an Archduke to entertain.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 01:35:49 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Wild Blue Claims
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
>I always thought of him more as an academic fraud and conman, rather than a
>politically correct American style "social historian".
You seem to have quite an axe to grind on this point. I hope that you don't
think that the interpretation of history to not offend certain segments of
people is a purely American concept.
>Ob Trav: Has politics corrupted Imperial Universities like it has American
>(and I assume Anzac and European) ones?
Of course, just as politics have ever since the beginning of centers of
learning.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 01:39:39 -0500
From: Rob Brady
Subject: politics & universities (was Wild Blue Claims)
>From: Kenji Schwarz
>Subject: Re: Wild Blue Claims
>...
> > Ob Trav: Has politics corrupted Imperial Universities like it has American
> > (and I assume Anzac and European) ones?
>
>No, that's impossible because of the free market economy and concommitant
>environment of free speech in the 3I, so that ideology literally CAN'T
>tamper with the truth.
Hmm... The imperium stays at the same tech level for millennia. The
Solomani jump 3 (?) levels in a short war, then they get entrenched in
the same type of imperial government and we are at the same tech level for
a couple more millennia. I think politics is so pervasive in the 3I that
no real scientific research can get done.
Since all true states are evolving towards the Feudal Technocracy though,
I don't think we really have to worry about this...
- --
Add a completely new dimension to science fiction adventure with
Robots.
Rob Brady robb at datatone dot com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 00:54:44 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch"
Subject: Re: Dragon Magazine Archive...
On 11/06/99 at 04:55 PM, "The Roc" said:
>> > [Please, don't direct any flames my way for buying such a controversial
>> > product. The historical value was too great for me to pass up.]
>> OK, now I'm even more confused, why is it controversial.
>I think it's controversial because it's not a favourite game system
>(like Microsoft) with many Travellers? Am I correct in these
>assumptions or are they a vocal minority? Just asking ;^)
Probably not a *favorite* game system here...we like Traveller.
, but I don't recall massive vilification of TSR either.
BTW, are you implying above that Microsoft is a game system? Hum,
that might explain a lot...
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 00:55:44 -0800
From: Jerry Paul Sanders
Subject: Keith Supplements mailed...
Ok...made it!!!! I was able to get a few of the Keith Supplements into the
mail today before the post-office closed at noon. Worked the remainer of
the day and have several more ready to send out on monday.
Several have written and asked 'how' I am sending them out - I am posting
them in the order that I received payment - have all those placed in August
and September of 1998 are mailed/ready to mail, and I will be working on
those placed in October of 1998 tomorrow.
Several have also written and asked if I have any sets left. The answer is
yes - around 30. Ordering information is still available on the website,
which I will update once I have a spare moment. Any new orders placed
before Dec.8th will still include free copies of the Imperial Calendar and
the Reavers' Deep Sector Sourcebook.
As I memtioned in my post earlier this week, I will be printing/mailing out
sets up until Dec. 8th, at which time I am going on a three-week trip. I
will resume printing/mailing any remaining orders when I return home the
4th of Janurary.
Before I forget - due to real-life time-contraints, I scrapped plans to
print up and include as 'freebies' the MegaTraveller I & II Cluebooks and
the manuals for Space I & II. If anyone who ordered a set was seriously
looking forward to these, please send me an email after the new year and I
will see about getting you a copy. Even though the sets are lacking the
intended freebies mentioned above, I hope the quality of the Imperial
Calendar, and especially the Reavers' Deep Sourcebook will make up for it.
Speaking of the Reavers' Deep Sourcebook, I would like to thank all those
who helped contribute both their time and effort to it - in particular
Jimmy Simpson and Hans Ranke.
Ok...I think that about covers it. I hope you folks enjoy the Supplements.
This whole experience has been one of learning for me, and I want to
appoligise one last time for the delay in getting them out. If you spot any
serious errors/typos, please send me an email.
Cordially,
Paul Sanders
timmon@primenet.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 01:58:11 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch"
Subject: Re: Marc Miller's new website for Traveller
On 11/06/99 at 03:42 PM, Rob Brady said:
>>http://members.aol.com/Traveller
>The pages are very netscape unfriendly.
Very!
In Netscape 4.04 (and that's the latest version I can get on this
particular system), the entire left hand ?frame? is missing. I
wondered what Swordy meant by voting until I tried using IE.
Whatever is linked to with T5 gives me a screen full garbage, with
html code below it, had to scroll down to see it.
The link to www.rpgrealms/Traveller is broken...missing a dot com?
Looking at the pages, I see...or fail to see actually...the left
hand column is consistantly missing from the Site Index and FAQ
pages, News and Traveller pages. ALL links are missing on the Links
page.
OTOH, what of it I can see looks nice.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 00:52:20 -0800
From: Edward Swatschek
Subject: Re: Marc Miller's new website for Traveller
On Sat, 06 Nov 1999, Eris Reddoch wrote:
>
> In Netscape 4.04 (and that's the latest version I can get on this
> particular system), the entire left hand ?frame? is missing. I
> wondered what Swordy meant by voting until I tried using IE.
Same with Netscape 4.7. Interstingly, it does appear in kfm (the KDE file
manager), and is somewhat Lynx friendly. I haven't looked at the source
closely, but I wonder if a

is missing it's

. I've found in the
past MSIE will display areas that Netscape will not in the same situation.
Heck, I've lots better to do, so lets see what I can see.
Grepping the page source reveals 10 instances of " looks like there is a missing .
This is the guilty section. It needs a before the Pollit code starts:

border=0 height=184 isMap src="184x184_Traveller.gif" useMap=#TravellerButtons width=184>

Comment: T5

What do you want to see in T5?

- --Edward Swatschek * edjs@bitslayer.net------------------------------Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 01:25:10 PSTFrom: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)Subject: Re: Food SourcesIn mail you write:> If not, does anyone have any other semi-exotic ideas for other food sources> farmed in space? I'm looking to add 'flavor' to my setting (no pun> intended.)Guinea pigs are a food animal in South America (especially Peru). Andthey've been proposed for space colnies.- -- Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferredleonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort------------------------------Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 14:42:03 +1000From: "cjbrain" Subject: The Meaning of Words (Re: Violent Outlet (Was Re: A Day of Peace))Well here's one for you:After beer in a bar/pub - "Can I grab a couple of jugs?"Australian: "Can I have 2 pitchers of beer?"American: "Can I fondle your XXXXXXX?"This happened to friends of mine at a US Base in Hawaii and caused someembarrassment.------------------------------Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 06:48:32 -0700From: Erwin Fritz Subject: Re: Marc Miller's new website for TravellerEris Reddoch wrote:> > On 11/06/99 at 03:42 PM, Rob Brady said:> > >>http://members.aol.com/Traveller> > >The pages are very netscape unfriendly.> > Very!> > In Netscape 4.04 (and that's the latest version I can get on this> particular system), the entire left hand ?frame? is missing. I> wondered what Swordy meant by voting until I tried using IE.>I'm running Netscape 4.5 and the pages look just fine to me.- -- Erwin FritzGilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.http://www.glja.com------------------------------Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 08:25:32 -0500From: Robert Prior Subject: Re: Wild Blue Claims>On Sat, 6 Nov 1999 Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:>>> Ob Trav: Has politics corrupted Imperial Universities like it has American>> (and I assume Anzac and European) ones?>>No, that's impossible because of the free market economy and concommitant>environment of free speech in the 3I, so that ideology literally CAN'T>tamper with the truth.>>KenjiYou'd think by now I'd learn not to drink and read the TML at the sametime. Sigh.Who's winning the Wet Keyboard Contest so far, anyway?------------------------------Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 15:38:49 -0000From: "MJ Dougherty" Subject: Announcement: BITS SubmissionsBritish Isles Traveller Support is still taking submissions for the NL andadventures.The newsletter always needs patron encounters, gadgets, world writeups,people, beasties and things. And other stuff too. And art.Anyone with an adventure idea wanting to get it published, contact the BITSSubmissions Editor. That's me again. Just a query in the first instance,unless you happen to have a ready-to run adventure there on yourhard-drive....RegardsMJD------------------------------Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 10:35:56 -0500From: Christopher Thrash Subject: Re: Evolution (was ...and the drifting generation ship)*Note: I am not a biologist, nor do I play one on TV. The informationcontained herein derived from working as a computer tech at the PatuxentWildlife Research Center, with access to the library and entirely too muchtime on my hands.*There is a specific subfield of evolutionary biology called /islandbiogeography/. It derives from the study of natural populations on islands(starting with Darwin) and has received a lot of attention from ecologistsin the last 20 years, as natural habitats on land become isolated by manand more like islands themselves.There are two basic observations: (1) That the number of species on an island rises as its area increases."The form of the equation is: S = cA^z, where z is a biologicallymeaningful constant that typically varies between about 0.20 and 0.35,depending on what taxon is under consideration, A is area, and c is aconstant. A tenfold increase in area, theoretically, leads to about a 50%increase in species diversity. The reverse is also true."(http://www.yorku.ca/faculty/academic/jtkerr/biogeog.htm)(2) That extinct species are replenished more quickly the closer the islandis to a source habitat (mainland or larger island). Most islands achieve anequilibrium between colonization and extinction.A secondary observation is that there is a minimum area threshold forspeciation; areas smaller than this will not support the independentdevelopment of new species. If isolated, existing species that becomeextinct will not be replaced and the overall biodiversity will reduce tothe level that the area can support on its own. "Fragmentation of tropicalforests will leave only habitat islands below the minimum level forautochthonous speciation. (Division in situ into subspecies along clines)."(http://erasmus.biol.csufresno.edu/Islands/isbio.txt) There may also be a relationship between the size of the island and themass of the largest animal that can evolve there. (I remember reading apaper on this, but I can't find a reference for it.)ObTrav:* In the case of the generation ship, unless it is *extremely* large,species are more likely to die out than be replaced through speciation, andthe overall complexity of the biosphere will decline.* These results imply that (within limits) planets with larger land massesshould support more species and therefore more complex land ecosystems.* There may be some utility in looking at all inhabited planets as"islands", and the Imperium or other interstellar state as an"archipelago". Sophonts are a transport mechanism, maintaining thediversity of small habitats by introducing new species or re-introducingold ones that threaten to die out. One feature of a Long Night would thenbe a massive die-off of small populations on isolated worlds, as they reacha new, lower equilibrium diversity. This would not happen overnight, ofcourse.------------------------------Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 09:53:16 -0600From: Shimmergloom Subject: Re: Marc Miller's new website for Travellerthere were columns on that page?Eris Reddoch wrote:> On 11/06/99 at 03:42 PM, Rob Brady said:>> >>http://members.aol.com/Traveller>> >The pages are very netscape unfriendly.>> Very!>> In Netscape 4.04 (and that's the latest version I can get on this> particular system), the entire left hand ?frame? is missing. I> wondered what Swordy meant by voting until I tried using IE.>> Whatever is linked to with T5 gives me a screen full garbage, with> html code below it, had to scroll down to see it.>> The link to www.rpgrealms/Traveller is broken...missing a dot com?>> Looking at the pages, I see...or fail to see actually...the left> hand column is consistantly missing from the Site Index and FAQ> pages, News and Traveller pages. ALL links are missing on the Links> page.>> OTOH, what of it I can see looks nice.>> Eris> --> -----------------------------------------------------------> "Eris Reddoch" using MR/2 ICE #245> ------------------------------------------------------------ --- -------------------------"How much XP do we get if we join the bandits?"shimmer@mhtc.net------------------------------Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 09:56:36 -0600From: Shimmergloom Subject: Re: Evolution (was ...and the drifting generation ship)So if I made this ship the size of a small moon I should have no problems.Christopher Thrash wrote:> *Note: I am not a biologist, nor do I play one on TV. The information> contained herein derived from working as a computer tech at the Patuxent> Wildlife Research Center, with access to the library and entirely too much> time on my hands.*>> There is a specific subfield of evolutionary biology called /island> biogeography/. It derives from the study of natural populations on islands> (starting with Darwin) and has received a lot of attention from ecologists> in the last 20 years, as natural habitats on land become isolated by man> and more like islands themselves.>> There are two basic observations:>> (1) That the number of species on an island rises as its area increases.> "The form of the equation is: S = cA^z, where z is a biologically> meaningful constant that typically varies between about 0.20 and 0.35,> depending on what taxon is under consideration, A is area, and c is a> constant. A tenfold increase in area, theoretically, leads to about a 50%> increase in species diversity. The reverse is also true."> (http://www.yorku.ca/faculty/academic/jtkerr/biogeog.htm)>> (2) That extinct species are replenished more quickly the closer the island> is to a source habitat (mainland or larger island). Most islands achieve an> equilibrium between colonization and extinction.>> A secondary observation is that there is a minimum area threshold for> speciation; areas smaller than this will not support the independent> development of new species. If isolated, existing species that become> extinct will not be replaced and the overall biodiversity will reduce to> the level that the area can support on its own. "Fragmentation of tropical> forests will leave only habitat islands below the minimum level for> autochthonous speciation. (Division in situ into subspecies along clines)."> (http://erasmus.biol.csufresno.edu/Islands/isbio.txt)>> There may also be a relationship between the size of the island and the> mass of the largest animal that can evolve there. (I remember reading a> paper on this, but I can't find a reference for it.)>> ObTrav:>> * In the case of the generation ship, unless it is *extremely* large,> species are more likely to die out than be replaced through speciation, and> the overall complexity of the biosphere will decline.>> * These results imply that (within limits) planets with larger land masses> should support more species and therefore more complex land ecosystems.>> * There may be some utility in looking at all inhabited planets as> "islands", and the Imperium or other interstellar state as an> "archipelago". Sophonts are a transport mechanism, maintaining the> diversity of small habitats by introducing new species or re-introducing> old ones that threaten to die out. One feature of a Long Night would then> be a massive die-off of small populations on isolated worlds, as they reach> a new, lower equilibrium diversity. This would not happen overnight, of> course.- --- -------------------------"How much XP do we get if we join the bandits?"shimmer@mhtc.net------------------------------Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 16:48:30 +0000From: SD Mooney Subject: re: Equipment lists.At 21:37 -0500 4/11/99, Shimmergloom wrote:>Anyone know where I can find a good long list of equipment for scifi games?T4's Central Supply Catalog is good, it has virtually every piece of kit ever listed for Traveller.Dom- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------ MiB - Marines in Battledress "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ ------------------------------Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 17:23:16 +0000From: SD Mooney Subject: Re: Moslems in space...At 21:37 -0500 4/11/99, "Chris Seamans" wrote:>Question: Does anybody know who the guy was who did the series of>proto-Cyberpunk books set in the Middle East? I can't remember his name, but>I remember that a rather enjoyable computer game was based on his stuff.George Alec Effinger'When Gravity Fails''Fire in the Sun''The Exile Kiss'Sadly, last time I checked these are out of print (I wanted to order a copy ) :-(There is a good (and probably out of print) Cyberpunk 2020 sourcebook of his world called 'When Gravity fails'. ISBN 0-937279-12-9, Catalogue No CP3601.Hope this helps,DomPS 'When Gravity Fails' should not to be confused with 'Hardwired' which is the other non-RTG background sourcebook for CP2020. 'Hardwired' is set in Walter Jon Williams world of the novel of the same name. Cool if only for the hover panzers.- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------ MiB - Marines in Battledress "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ ------------------------------End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1322***********************************To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:unsubscribe traveller-digestin the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.imagiconline.com".If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail iscoming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append thataddress to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe"local-traveller":subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.netA non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; tosubscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"in the commands above with "traveller".Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com

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