Subj: Traveller-digest V1999 #1443
Date: 12/5/99 12:04:48 AM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Sunday, December 5 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 1443
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: 3D Star Maps
Re: OT: Must buy game
K.I.S.S! (was Professional Stereotyping)
Red Dwarf, canon for MTU
EW Modules
Re: Roger Sanger ... BAD, BAD, BAD???
RE: 3D Star Maps and Jump 1
Re: Phantom world in the Spinward Marches
Re: GT: Trade routes question
Re: OT: Must buy game (No go on Nova)
Re: Cannon Fodder
Re: Sci fi films
Re: Cannon Fodder
Re: OT: Must buy game
Re: Sci fi films
Re: 3D Star Maps
Re: 3D Star Maps
Re: Cannon Fodder
Re: 3D Star Maps
Cleaning (was Re: Sci fi films)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 20:20:17 -0500
From: Glenn Grant
Subject: Re: 3D Star Maps
Kurtis,
Interesting data, even if kinda skewed by Hipparcos sampling criteria.
If you're sharing, I'd be interested in receiving a copy of your star list
with coordinates. Are the stars named? I seem to recall reading (on the
Starmap mailing list) that the Hipparcos data didn't include star names,
just catalogue numbers - and not the same numbers used in Gliese, IIRC.
Something to consider: on top of the red dwarfs missing from the Hipparcos
data, there are probably lots of rogue brown dwarfs out there between the
stars, unobserved by current telescopes. Some astronomers believe that
brown dwarfs make up a good portion of the "missing mass" of the universe.
They might outnumber red dwarfs by an order of magnitude. Many of them
would be paired with companion stars, but some believe there will also be
large numbers of brown-dwarf singletons.
If you can jump to these dim infra-red stars (and why not?), then the
number of J-1 destinations for each system will increase dramatically.
[BTW: (shameless plug) There's a terrific hard-SF story, "Halo" by Karl
Schroeder, set on a frozen planet orbiting a brown dwarf; it's in _Northern
Suns: The New Anthology of Canadian Science Fiction_ (Tor hc, 1999), edited
by David Hartwell and --gosh-- me.]
I'd love to use 3D star maps, but I don't have a laptop for running a
CHVIEW map during gameplay, and 3D maps on paper present too many practical
problems. You can't cover a large area without the stars and labels
overlapping each other. The 'deeper' the map, the worse the problem
becomes; I doubt you could fit your entire 60-parsec Hipparcos list onto a
single map. So a 3D map has to be limited to a relatively small region of
space (max 7 or 8 pc across?). And say you have several 3D maps of
adjacent areas of space; figuring out routes between the maps becomes a
major headache. It's a pain just to visualize the 3D relationships from a
2D map, let alone work out jump routes.
I wonder if a possible solution might not be a program that could generate
a separate map (preferably scalable, in postscript) for each and every
star? Each map would show all stars within, say, 7 or 8 pc of the star,
with all Jump-6-or-less routes from that star delineated and distances
marked. Or it could generate a distance table for each star, listing the
distances to its reachable neighbors. This would save a lot of time
working out routes during game play.
Does this sound at all do-able? If I were a programmer, I'd try to write
it myself.
Thinking out loud,
+ GMG +
Glenn Grant
_Northern Suns: The New Anthology of Canadian Science Fiction_
Edited by David Hartwell & Glenn Grant
now in hardcover from Tor Books
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 18:55:15 -0700
From: cos 90
Subject: Re: OT: Must buy game
>>Is this a real advertising glitch? Like the foreign soda ad saying "Drink
>>your ancestors!"? (or something like that)
>
>Yes, it is. Wonderful, ain't it?
>
>It was: "Pepsi-cola raises your ancestors fromthe Dead" (Thailand)
>
>I just love translation errors. Like the El Paso airport where every sign
>with the word "year" in Spanish omitted the tilde over the n....
Or Chevrolet's car, the Nova, which is Latin for "new"... and Spanish
for "doesn't go"...
Glenn St-Germain § Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
cos90@powersurfr.com § http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn
"There is no longer any normal to be"
-- Gary Numan
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 17:57:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Kyle Schuant
Subject: K.I.S.S! (was Professional Stereotyping)
- --- Luther Martin wrote:
> Glenn the lawyer wrote:
>
> > So we tend to sit
> > and stew over problems, do research, talk to
> > colleagues, write letters and motions, etc. So tv
> > totally mischaracterizes the length of time needed
> to
> > resolve legal issues.
>
> Does this explain why lawyers bill by the hour?
>
> TV also grossly mischaracterizes engineering.
> Instead of immmediately
> reconfiguring the sensor array to zap the bad guys,
> we need to show the
> creation of
> specification documents, design reviews, the quality
> assurance process, and
> so on. You certainly can't do this with the BEMs
> firing some sort of death
> ray at you.
>
> For the Traveller connection, consider how much
> software that a character,
> or even a small team,
> can produce within reasonable game constraints, say
> weeks to months. How
> complex can it really get ? How good will his
> quality assurance process be?
> Would you trust the functioning of your 100 ZCr ship
> to it, particularly if
> you are the bank which owns the mortgage? Are there
> strict regulations
> governing the adding/deleting/upgrading of ships'
> software due to safety
> concerns (f nothing else)?
>
Kyle screamed and replied:
Aargh! help! save me from the Bureaucratic Process!
must everything be discussed, debated, decide by
committee and quality assured? are there not things we
can just do? with the BEMs firing death rays at you,
you don't mess about with this rubbish, you just do
what needs to be done! it might stuff you up, but so
will convening the Quality Assurance Board Managers,
who will all be wasted by the BEM BFGs (along with
everybody else). In the spirit of the percussive
maintenance thread, and the "not breaking skills down
too much" thread, too much messing about with details
like this bogs everything down...
Anyhow, so what if the PCs screw up? Screw ups are
what make an adventure! If there is no risk of screw
ups, most of which are self-inflicted, then Traveller
really is "a game where you run around paying off your debts."
=====
KA Schuant
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club
Melbourne
Australia
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 18:00:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Kyle Schuant
Subject: Red Dwarf, canon for MTU
Brandon wrote:
> My only problem is that I keep thinking: How would
> this have been handled in
> _Red Dwarf_?
Of course! I think it's an excellent guide for GMs:
make it fun. And I think that in the far future,
people will be just as dumb as we are now. Most
spacers will NOT have PhDs in Plasma Polarisation Warp
Engineering, or whatever.
=====
KA Schuant
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club
Melbourne
Australia
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 20:07:54 -0600
From: "Bont"
Subject: EW Modules
Many moons ago someone posted an EW Module here for GT. If
you developed it, please drop me an email.
- - - -
FELIX (Thomas L Bont)
- - Encrypt your messages!
That way only the government knows what you wrote!
- - It is truly the wise man that knows what he doesn't!
- - With your shield or on it ... (Old Spartan Blessing)
- - Fidelitas super omnia, honore excepto
- - Help Stop Forest Fires. Outlaw Matches.
Be sure to visit The FELIX Cafe at
http://www.felixcafe.com/
- - - -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 21:13:45 -0500
From: "David L. Pulver"
Subject: Re: Roger Sanger ... BAD, BAD, BAD???
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 15:17:07 PST
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>
>In mail you write:
>
>I seem to vaguely recall reading somewhere that due to folks like
>Roger, many writers and artists have a standard clause in their
>contracts to the effect that if the work isn't published within some
>period of time (2 years? 5 years?) it reverts to them.
Sometimes that exists, but it isn't really standard in the rpg game
industry -- I've only ever seen it once, and that was when I wrote the
contract. Most game companies (for example, SJ Games) have standard
contracts that they don't like to change. In addition, it sometimes _can_
take a while for a company to publish something, due to shifting
priorities. GURPS Book of the New Sun and
GURPS Space Atlas 4 are examples of books that were "sat on" for a couple
of years before they came out. The best thing to do is to get an advance
for the work, payable on submission of first draft. This sort of
encourages the publisher to print it, since he has already put money into it.
- -david pulver
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 19:18:48 -0800
From: "David & Kristin Larson"
Subject: RE: 3D Star Maps and Jump 1
If there were a cluster of eight isolated stars, each within 1 jump of the
other, then there would be eight stars each with SEVEN jump 1 destinations.
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 15:03:37 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: 3D Star Maps
> Also, exactly 8 stars with 8
> destinations means they're all clustered together, right?
No. I don't think so. Each of the 8 stars that are available as
destinations from 1 of those stars may have *fewer* (or more) stars
available as destinations.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 05:45:29 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen
Subject: Re: Phantom world in the Spinward Marches
Carlos Alos-Ferrer writes:
>A phantom world in the familiar Spinward Marches:
>MT Imperial Encyclopedia lists (in Trin's Veil subsector):
>
>2632 X895674-8 Ag Ni An R201 Im F3V M0D
>
>Notice that it is a Red-Zoned Ancient Site... maybe that is the
>reason it does not show up in any maps! I would be itnerested to know
>whether this is an MT artifact or was (wasn't?) already there in
>earlier versions...
It wasn't.
>Just speculating... coult it conceivably be the case that the
>Imperium erases some world from all databanks and consistently
>manages to hid its existence, until a group of PCs casually finds a
>very old record with an extra world? Probably not, since it has an
>F3V main star and it is (would be) next door to an A-starport world,
>hence probably observable even wihout mechanical aid. But still....
I have a half-finished adventure set on that world lying around. Haven't
worked on it for a while. I should propably dig it out and finish it up.
In my version it is a hidden resort world that belonged to one of the
Kids. That's right. The whole system is hidden by an Ancient stealth
field. The only way to get there is to misjump inside the field.
>Eskayloyt, anyone? Nah, too large...
According to a post by Marc Miller on the TML several years ago, Eskaloyt
used to be in the Shionthy system and was rotated into a pocket universe
by Grandfather (not the same PU as Grandfather's Universe).
Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
events based on the individual situation."
_76 Patrons_, p. 8
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 20:56:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Mixon
Subject: Re: GT: Trade routes question
- --- Leonard Erickson wrote:
> > A quick question. I have gotten to the point of doing the minor
> > trade routes for the entire Spinward Marches subsector, having
> > mapped out the major and feeder routes. GT: Far Trader says to
> > use J-2 routes unless a feeder or above would save a jump or more
> > or if it is along an x-boat route. Would a minor route then be
> > able to use a higher jump route created by the major and feeder
> > process? I can't see why it wouldn't but that eventuality was
> > not mentioned. If the route is already in existance, my guess is
> > that a minor route could use it but I wanted to ask for opinions.
>
> I think you are working too hard.
Considering the number of hours I have spent on this project, I
can't argue with that.
> What it sounds like it is saying is that if a minor route is
> "needed", you should check and see if it is possible to get
> things there faster by making the route a "stub" off of a
> feeder or x-boat route, or even making a it a pair of stubs
> joining to said feeder or X-boat route.
>
> Say a j1 to get to the "feeder" and another to get off of it.
Agreed, and that is how I am doing it, but it was specific in
saying use jump 2 unless you can save a jump or more on a feeder
and above or along an x-boat route. The question still remains
whether the minor routes can go along a feeder or major route
that has a jump 3 leg. As I said, I rather expect the answer
to be that it can but want opinions on whether the minor routes
can use the j-3 legs or not.
Thanks.
Terry Mixon
__________________________________________________
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Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 00:03:41 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: OT: Must buy game (No go on Nova)
From: cos 90
> Or Chevrolet's car, the Nova, which is Latin for "new"... and Spanish
> for "doesn't go"...
Nope. It's not Spanish for "no go". That would be "no va", and the accented
syllables are reversed, so it wouldn't even really sound the same. This is a
very popular urban legend, but its status as legend has been verified.
The Chevy Nova did fine in Spanish speaking markets.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 23:59:13 -0600
From: William Barnett-Lewis
Subject: Re: Cannon Fodder
You don't, I will. That is a _great_ frigging idea. W/ H.Sap.Neianderthal
(Sp is totally trashed. Sorry.) as the Supervisors? (Hey 300k wasn't the
_last_ time grampa visted...)
> The Droyne Warriors in TP were just that: Droyne. (It would have more fun
> if the stasis shells had collapsed and the players found themselves facing
> a horde of H. erectus carrying disintegrators.. hmm.. may have to re-write
> that for the next run..)
>
> - --
>
> Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
>
> TML Great Old One
> Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse
> Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.
>
> --------------------------------
William
Live without fear; your Creator loves you | William Barnett-Lewis
as a mother. Go in peace to follow the good | mailto://wlewis@mailbag.com
road and may God's blessing be with |
you always. |
St. Claire |
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 00:14:27 -0600
From: Charles R Hensley
Subject: Re: Sci fi films
Thomas Vickers wrote:
>Like my friend who did his duty in the American Navy claims
>"Navy ships have lots of chrome so that bored sailors can polish it"
>
>Probably true in any situation involving the military and bored
recruits :)
they don't have much chrome but they do have LOTS of brass (door knobs,
pipes, plaques, control panels, etc., etc.) that needs to be polished.
Charles
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 01:15:28 -0500
From: "Josh W. Spencer"
Subject: Re: Cannon Fodder
William Barnett-Lewis wrote:
>
> You don't, I will. That is a _great_ frigging idea. W/ H.Sap.Neianderthal
> (Sp is totally trashed. Sorry.) as the Supervisors? (Hey 300k wasn't the
> _last_ time grampa visted...)
>
> > The Droyne Warriors in TP were just that: Droyne. (It would have more fun
> > if the stasis shells had collapsed and the players found themselves facing
> > a horde of H. erectus carrying disintegrators.. hmm.. may have to re-write
> > that for the next run..)
And then there are the Kromaggs....
- --
Josh
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 01:24:13 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: OT: Must buy game
I wanted to find out if there was any truth to the Pepsi and American
Express stories. Unfortunately, I couldn't find anything that was concrete
on either one. However, all of the references I could find about Pepsi's
possible error cited the Chevy Nova / no va story as an earlier example of
this sort of pitfall, and that legend has been debunked for years now. As
far as the internet goes, I haven't found any reliable cites concerning the
other stories, which really causes me to doubt their accuracy.
Do keep in mind that the assumption that these stories make is absurd. Since
the dawn of the mass-market advertising campaign, multinational corporations
have relied heavily on local firms and expertise for advertising. They have
to, not just because of possible translation errors, but because it would be
too expensive not to.
Still, stories like these find a wide distribution in respectable
newspapers, magazines and even classrooms. The Chevy Nova legend was one I
heard in a high-school history class to illustrate what happens when
cultures clash.
I'm surprised that nobody's mentioned Coca-Cola and "bite the wax tadpole"
yet.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 01:32:23 -0500
From: "Swordy (Colin Michael)"
Subject: Re: Sci fi films
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Charles R Hensley
> they don't have much chrome but they do have LOTS of brass (door knobs,
> pipes, plaques, control panels, etc., etc.) that needs to be polished.
...and the ships bell, clocks, portholes, ward room rails, windlasses,
cleats... heck, the ship I was on had a foundry. If we ever came close to
running out of things to polish they could always cast more!
- -Crusty
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 19:04:29 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: 3D Star Maps
In mail you write:
> I'd love to use 3D star maps, but I don't have a laptop for running a
> CHVIEW map during gameplay, and 3D maps on paper present too many practical
> problems. You can't cover a large area without the stars and labels
> overlapping each other. The 'deeper' the map, the worse the problem
> becomes; I doubt you could fit your entire 60-parsec Hipparcos list onto a
> single map. So a 3D map has to be limited to a relatively small region of
> space (max 7 or 8 pc across?). And say you have several 3D maps of
> adjacent areas of space; figuring out routes between the maps becomes a
> major headache. It's a pain just to visualize the 3D relationships from a
> 2D map, let alone work out jump routes.
What I've considered (for an area containing less than 100 stars) was
building a *model*. Make a based out of plastic or wood, drill holes at
the right spots and have the stars be beads on the end of carefully
measured lengths of piano wire. Glue the wires in place (and maybe add
labels attached to the wires, near the stars) and you've got a *real*
3-D map.
If you were crazy enough, you could add extra sections to expand it
horizontally. Expanding it vertically doesn't seem very practical.
> I wonder if a possible solution might not be a program that could generate
> a separate map (preferably scalable, in postscript) for each and every
> star? Each map would show all stars within, say, 7 or 8 pc of the star,
> with all Jump-6-or-less routes from that star delineated and distances
> marked. Or it could generate a distance table for each star, listing the
> distances to its reachable neighbors. This would save a lot of time
> working out routes during game play.
Both of those sound like partial solutions. Just remember that you'll
need to computer to handle misjumps!
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 00:52:00 -0600
From: "Kurtis Rodgers"
Subject: Re: 3D Star Maps
> Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 15:03:37 PST
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> Subject: Re: 3D Star Maps
> > Notice, we only have one star that you can't go anywhere from at J1, but
the
> > average number of destinations is only 1.
>
> I find this *highly* suspect, given that said star is *Sol*. If it
> isn't, either your database or algorithm is broken.
Your right.., it is Sol. I hadn't actually bothered to look at the Sol
destination results yet. Here they are - if they're wrong, then I
definitely made a mistake with my cartesian coodinates:
J1dest J2dest J3dest J4dest J5dest J6dest
- ----------- ----------- ----------- ----------- ----------- -----------
0 4 3 15 18 26
> > Also, exactly 8 stars with 8
> > destinations means they're all clustered together, right?
>
> No. I don't think so. Each of the 8 stars that are available as
> destinations from 1 of those stars may have *fewer* (or more) stars
> available as destinations.
Yep. Just sloppy/wishful thinking in my part. Still, the idea of a
discrete J1 cluster of 8 stars could be intestesting from a worldbuilder's
perspective.
> > Youch! Over half the sample lacks any J2 destination at all. This
knocks
> > the average down to 1. Hmm. This definitely needs more looking into -
to
> > make sure its not a mistake, if nothing else.
>
> It is a mistake. Since you aren't counting J-1 destinations you get
> this sort of "artifact". You need to be searching for J-1 destinations,
> J-2 *or less*, J-3 *or less*, etc.
Um... My intent was to show the 'J3 or less' numbers
first, and then break that out into specific jump detail. That was the
point. The exclusive J1 & J3 numbers did not exhibit any such "artifact".
I still think its fishy given the plethora of J1 destinations. It was my
gut feeling that either the J1 or J2 numbers had to be off, becuase they
don't make much sense combined..., and I now know why!
It turns out my J1 destination counts were royally screwed by a flaming f-up
on my part. The algorithm that compiled the J1 destination counts neglected
to excluded the source star itself, inflating all the J1 counts by 1. This
explains the ridiculous disparity between the J1 & J2 counts. The numbers
for Sol did not reflect this error because I added those records with a
different query. Thus the false uniqueness of Sol's lack of J1
destinations. DOH. Sigh.., a thousand lashes with a greasy wet noodle for
me! : ) Sorry folks.
The bogus destination records are easily corrected (delete destinations
where source = destination). Lo and behold, the corrected J1 numbers are
much more in line with the J2 counts. I'll repost the result set in a
subsequent email.
> Another thing. Given the way Traveller maps things, you may hant to be
> looking for "Less than J-1.5", "Less than J-2.5" etc.
This is a very good point. I should have specifically pointed out one of my
assumptions in measuring jump factors was Jump-1 equals *exactly* one parsec
or less. Thus, a displacement magnitude of 3.00000001 parsecs would yield a
jump requirement of J4. This, again, points to a need for finer granularity
in my destination analysis. This is exactly the sort of thing this test
database was created to vette. Thanks.
Kurtis
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 02:27:59 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: Cannon Fodder
Aha, another Sliders fan! :)
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Josh W. Spencer"
To:
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 1999 1:15 AM
Subject: Re: Cannon Fodder
> William Barnett-Lewis wrote:
> >
> > You don't, I will. That is a _great_ frigging idea. W/
H.Sap.Neianderthal
> > (Sp is totally trashed. Sorry.) as the Supervisors? (Hey 300k wasn't the
> > _last_ time grampa visted...)
> >
> > > The Droyne Warriors in TP were just that: Droyne. (It would have more
fun
> > > if the stasis shells had collapsed and the players found themselves
facing
> > > a horde of H. erectus carrying disintegrators.. hmm.. may have to
re-write
> > > that for the next run..)
>
> And then there are the Kromaggs....
>
> --
> Josh
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 01:22:29 -0600
From: "Kurtis Rodgers"
Subject: Re: 3D Star Maps
Ok, in case you missed it in a previous post, I screwed up my Jump-1
destination totals. This will throw off most of the numbers I've posted so
far to some degree. I am going to re-write my scripts to generate numbers
for parsec fractions, and perhaps lightyears as well. The final chart that
summarizes all that data will get posted on a web page, hopefully during
this coming week. In the meantime, here are the corrected Jump-1
destination totals.
_____
Jump-1 Destinations, Corrected
The first result column is the count of destinations available to a star at
Jump-1. The second column is the number of stars to which the destination
count applies. The third column is the percent of the total sample that the
star count makes up.
Destinations Star Count Percent
- ------------ ----------- -------
0 5153 51.90
1 2706 27.25
2 964 9.71
3 362 3.65
4 180 1.81
5 97 0.98
6 60 0.60
7 44 0.44
8 38 0.38
9 36 0.36
10 46 0.46
...
15 24 0.24
...
20 7 0.07
...
25 1 0.01
_____
It looks to be a tough galaxy out there for those J1 merchants - this
(combined with the harsh J2 totals) is why fudging with the jump factors
seems to be a popular adjustment. These are just gross counts though..,
what I really want to see are the numbers for J1 clusters/mains. I'll try
to work on that later this week.
Kurtis
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 03:02:07 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Cleaning (was Re: Sci fi films)
>Like my friend who did his duty in the American Navy claims
>"Navy ships have lots of chrome so that bored sailors can polish it"
>
>Probably true in any situation involving the military and bored recruits :)
"Okay Ladies," sez the Marine Master Sergeant, "since you can't keep your
kits clean, we'll see how you do with the Navy's. This is a Mark One
Toothbrush; that is the largest head on this boat. Get polishing."
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1443
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