To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 94 22:00:03 EST
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #551: Msgs 6909-6928 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Wed Mar  9 22:00:02 EST 1994
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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Mar 94 22:00:03 EST
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #551: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 551  6909 03-Mar-1994 Roger Sanger     A TRAVELLER WISH-LIST <<  
 551  6910 03-Mar-1994 Edward Swatsche  VRF gauss gun << > Peter B. Juzyk wrote
 551  6911 03-Mar-1994 Roger Sanger     (real items) Wanted: <<  
 551  6912 04-Mar-1994 Sebastien PERKI  system generation << i have a small pro
 551  6913 04-Mar-1994 Dane Johnson     MicroJumps and GDW << Someone was wonde
 551  6914 04-Mar-1994 Jason Smith      Errata? << Anyone have the most up-to-d
 551  6915 04-Mar-1994 Wilcox David T   Problems in TNE <<  My first question i
 551  6916 04-Mar-1994 Roger Sanger     Fanzines and Magazines <<  
 551  6917 04-Mar-1994 Ronan O Neill    RE : starport B shipping (microjumps) <
 551  6918 04-Mar-1994 Dean Gilbert     2300AD << I'm looking to connect with s
 551  6919 04-Mar-1994 WADDELL@delphi.  Hazel System << re: Mr. Perkins request
 551  6920 05-Mar-1994 j.kundert@genie  TNE VRF Gauss Guns & Sand << psualum@ao
 551  6921 05-Mar-1994 j.kundert@genie  RE: VRF Gauss Gun << Ah, I see Edjs has
 551  6922 05-Mar-1994 Bertil Jonell    Is there a biologist in the house? <<  
 551  6923 05-Mar-1994 Roger Sanger     which game system do you use? <<  
 551  6924 06-Mar-1994 john.bogan@asb.  COMPANION STARS & ORBITS << Roger Sange
 551  6925 06-Mar-1994 mgood@MIT.EDU    Why, I can rationalise ANYTHING!! << Va
 551  6926 06-Mar-1994 Mark Urbin       FF&S II <<  
 551  6927 07-Mar-1994 burnchrome@aol.  Unsubscribe << please unsubscribe me fr
 551  6928 08-Mar-1994 Dane Johnson     Holes in Imperium && FF&S << When last 

------------------------------

Bundle: 551
Archive-Message-Number: 6909
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 21:29:26 -0800
From: rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger)
Subject: A TRAVELLER WISH-LIST

 
 
                   A Traveller's Wish List
   (of products and game aids that do not currently exist):
 
AN INDEX SPANNING ALL TRAVELLER MATERIAL WRITTEN, seperated into
categories (such as starships, equipment, astrography, character
generation, NPC's, news items, etc.).  You could then see at a
glance just what has been developed for the game (what, where,
who).  Picking and choosing equipment would become easier, rather
than the current method of searching through book after book and
mag after mag.  The main benefit though would be that you could
more easily find everything ever written about a particular
world.
 
ALL TRAVELLER MATERIAL ON A CD.  Linked via hypertext with
several menu interfaces, tables of contents, and indices to allow
easy access.
 
ILLUSTRATIONS AND DECKPLANS OF ALL STARSHIPS for which there are
stats. Running an adventure with a ship you can't show to the
players has always been rather infeasible for me to do.
 
ADVENTURES WITH SUPPORT MATERIAL (MAPS, ILLUSTRATIONS, etc.) as
extensive as the James Bond adventure series.  To save the ref
the time needed to make floorplans, city and regional maps,
starport layouts, etc.
 
A COMPREHENSIVE EQUIPMENT CATALOG.  Including items from every
tech-level, and including a major section on robot models and
another on cybernetic enhancements.  Leave the "how-to design"
rules in FF&S.
 
A COMPREHENSIVE ASTRONOMICAL ATLAS, with writeups on all worlds
included in the game.  Something similar to the planet write-ups
included in the Flaming Eye Campaign Sourcebook.  Or at least
covering an area large enough that players aren't like to wander
off the edge of the map (and into undeveloped territory) anytime
soon.
 
A BIBLIOGRAPHY OF EVERY TRAVELLER ARTICLE EVER WRITTEN.  I've
always wondered just how much has been written for this game.
 
A PHOTO ALBUM INCLUDING ALL ART EVER CREATED FOR TRAVELLER.
Indexed by what is included in each picture (see "index" entry
above).
 
          Any comments?
 
          Roger Sanger
 
P.S.:  They don't have anything on the above list available do they?

 o o
\___/

------------------------------

Bundle: 551
Archive-Message-Number: 6910
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 94 21:57 PST
Subject: VRF gauss gun
From: Edward_Swatschek@mindlink.bc.ca (Edward Swatschek)

> Peter B. Juzyk wrote:
>
> I also have found some more suspicious items in the T:TNE rules.  In the
> Autoguns weapon listings for the VRF Gauss guns I have the following stats
> which seem to be slightly transposed:
>
>                         -----Weight----
> Caliber              Empty    Loaded Ammo  Magazine
> - ------------------------------------------------------
> VRF Gauss gun (veh)   26.68   41.68  15    30000C/2
> VRF Gauss gun (mp)   162.68  162.43  0.25  500C/137
>
>
> Somehow it just seems counter-intuitive that the vehicular weapon weighs
> less.  It seems that most of the above numbers for the veh model with the
> exception of ammo wt. and magazine cap. should be switched with the mp
> model and vice-versa.

   To get a DV of 6 with dart ammo requires a muzzle energy of 8100 J.
Required energy at TL 10 is 3 times that, so for 500 rounds you need a
magazine battery of 122 kg (8100*3*500*0.00001).  For 30000 rds, you'd need a
mag bat of 73 _tonnes_.

   The mp (man-portable) version includes the mass of the battery powering
the weapon.  The vehicle one is assumed to be plugged into the vehicle's
power system or other separate power supply.  Unfortunately, there is no
mention of what power input is needed.  At its maximum rate of fire (5 bursts
of 50 shots per 5 seconds) the gun should require 1.215 MW (8100*3*5*50/5).
A 2-tonne TL 10 storage battery would power it for 120 000 rds at full ROF.


> Another item: what is the mass of a sand cannister and what is its volume?
> I assume the improvement in beam reduction by sand casters is a result of
> the electro-magnetic field generated and not because of different types of
> sand.

   Sand canisters mass 0.5 tonnes in a volume of 0.5 kL.  The improvement is
from both reasons.  Higher tech levels use gravitic as well as/instead of
magnetic fields, which allows the use of more effective sand.


- --
               Edjs                    _
              ------                _ //  CI$  : 76427,662
   Edward_Swatschek@mindlink.bc.ca  \X/   GEnie: E.SWATSCHEK


------------------------------

Bundle: 551
Archive-Message-Number: 6911
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 23:25:08 -0800
From: rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger)
Subject: (real items) Wanted:

 
Dear Everyone:
 
 
I'm looking for the following Sci-fi RPG products:
 
Asteroid                                             GDW
Aliens handout (original paper on Traveller aliens)  GDW
The Traveller Map (poster)                           GDW
Dark Nebula                                          GDW
Imperial Data Recovery System                        fasa
Referee Screen (4 pieces)                            Judges Guild
Flight of the Stag                                   Marischal Adv. or Seeker
Fleetwatch                                           Marischal Adv. or Seeker
Evening Star                                         Rob Warfield
 
Also:
 
Anything Sci-fi or Traveller-related from Seeker
Anything Sci-fi or Traveller-related from Adjutant
Anything Sci-fi or Traveller-related from Wrekt
 
I'd be willing to purchase or trade.
 
                Sincerely,
 
                Roger Sanger

------------------------------

Bundle: 551
Archive-Message-Number: 6912
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 14:23:07 +0100
From: perkins@ensinfo.uvsq.fr (Sebastien PERKINS)
Subject: system generation

i have a small problem, i've created the HAZEL (spinward, just next to TRIN) sys
tem using the extended system generator with the errata changes, and i have foun
d a problem :

i've placed hazel in the H orbit the only trouble is that the secondary star was
 sitauted just one orbit behind !!!

can this be possible (temperature, gravity, day/night, problems) ???

thenks

seb

PS maybe this is why it's an amber zone !!!

------------------------------

Bundle: 551
Archive-Message-Number: 6913
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 94 09:58:35 PST
From: Dane Johnson  <djohnson@willamette.edu>
Subject: MicroJumps and GDW


Someone was wondering if GDW has ever officially sanctioned "microjumps", or
at least Jump-0.  In the first case, at least, the answer is yes.  In the
Solomani Aliens module the Jump drive was originally used to cut down on
travel time between the outer system planets.  Of course, this was probably
just a Jump-1 Drive jumping insystem and never stated to be a "jump-0" drive.
(I'm assuming that a J-0 drive would not have a one parsec range -- Since
a J-1 Drive is possible at TL9, it seems that if range was an issue it was
probably one of power production and not Jump drive efficiency...)

Just my Cr0.02...

Dane
djohnson@willamette.edu   dane@halcyon.edu

TNS Stringer ------ Terra/Solomani Rim (1827 G867975-8)
"My opinions are those of my fuzz-brained, cat-sniffing Norwegian Elkhound."

------------------------------

Bundle: 551
Archive-Message-Number: 6914
From: jasons@adcmail.atlas.com (Jason Smith)
Subject: Errata?
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 12:12:12 -0800 (PST)


Anyone have the most up-to-date "canonical" list of errata for TNE?  

I finally picked up the TNE book, and recall there was a bit of, err,
"fudging" necessary.

I'd appreciate anything you got ...

- -- 

Jason D. Smith 	|   I'm not young enough to know everything.
     1x1        |               jasons@atlas.com

------------------------------

Bundle: 551
Archive-Message-Number: 6915
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 15:37:05 -0600 (CST)
From: Wilcox David T <dtw754s@nic.smsu.edu>
Subject: Problems in TNE

	My first question is this : does S_DMOODY (or anyone else) have 
any solutions or suggestions concerning the problems S_DMOODY presented? 
He did bring up some legitimate complaints that I agree with, but 
I would also like to hear any suggestions for corrections to the problems.
	My own solution concerning maneuver drives was to make HEPlaR 
technology dependent on the society's TL, in the same way that other 
jump and maneuver drives are based on TL. By the time the society was TL 
15 or 16, the efficiency of their HEPlaR drives would enable them to achieve 
the travel times mentioned in MT rules and TML letters. And concerning 
gravitic technology, lasers, and the "fudge factor" S_DMOODY mentions, I 
think that GT is a reasonable way to make lasers more effective without 
knowing exactly what technology would be available in the _very_ distant 
future Traveller is set in.
	  

------------------------------

Bundle: 551
Archive-Message-Number: 6916
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 14:53:14 -0800
From: rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger)
Subject: Fanzines and Magazines

 
As promised, I'm posting updates to my Traveller Fanzine and
Magazine lists below.
 
They're not yet complete, so any help you can provide would be
most appreciated.
 
Many thanks to Bryan Borich, James Dening, Gregg Giles, David
Johnson, and Paul Sanders, who helped to fill them in thus far:
 
 
TRAVELLER FANZINES:         Status:     Publisher:        Issues:     I have:
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AAB Proeedings (HIWG)       active      Clay Bush, HIWG   #1 - 23     all
Adjutant, The               defunct     M.S. Graphics     #1 - 13
Alien Realms                on haitus   Bryan Borich      #1 - 7      all
Alien Star                  defunct     D.W. Hockham      #1 - 8      6 - 8
Backspacer  (PBM?)          ?           ?                 ?
Between Worlds              defunct     M. Abel/F. Sobel  #1 - 6      1 - 6
Cerebretron (2300)          ?           Alex Bardy        ?
Continuum                   defunct     Herb Petro        #1 - 3
Coreward                    defunct     Paul J. Drye      #1 - 2      all
Dark Star                   defunct                       #1 - 5      1
Fanzine Reader, The         ?           William Smith     ?
Imperial News Service       defunct     James L. Shipman  #1 - 2      all
Imperium Staple             defunct     Herb Petro        #1 - 12     1 - 12
Jumpspace                   defunct     Starlance         #1 - 6      1 - 6
 (changed to the magazine Voyages)
Melbourne Times             active      David Johnson     #1 - 4      2
North Coast Role Playing    defunct     Barry Osser       #1 - 9      9
PARASEC                     defunct     Charles Rickman   #1 - 4?     all
Queskania                   ?           Brockington/Webb  #1 - 6?     2 - 6
Rimshots  (HIWG)            ?           ?                 ?
Security Leak Magazine      defunct     Gregg Giles       #1 - 5      1 - 5
Security Leak Newsletter    defunct     Gregg Giles       #1 - 3?     1 - 3
Signal-GK                   active      Jae Campbell      #1 - 7+     1
Sanctuary                   ?           ?                 ?
Spinward Times              ?           AG Games          ?
Starburst (HIWG)            active      David Schneider   #1 - 23+    1-5, 12
                                                                      16-18,
                                                                      20-21, 23
SS&V                        on haitus   Bryan Borich      #1 - 16     all
 (Starships, Starports and Vehicles)
Third Imperium              defunct     Mike Jackson      #1 - 11     1 - 11
Tiffany Star newsletter     defunct     Mike Mikesh       #0 - 29?    0 - 9
Terra Traveller Times                   Mark Geo Gelinas  #1 - 39?    21, 23,
 (changed from Tidewater Traveller Times)                             27-37, 39
Tidewater Traveller Times   name change Mark Geo Gelinas  #?
 (changed to Terra Traveller Times)
The Traveller's Aide        defunct     ?                 #1 - 44?
Traveller Chronicle         active      Kevin Knight      #1 - 3      all
T-Tech                      defunct     T-Tech            #1 - 4?
Variant                     defunct     ?                 #1 - 16
Working Passage             defunct     Ed Edwards        #0 - 11     5 - 11
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 
                                                              issues
                       current                                contaning  I
TRAVELLER MAGAZINES:   status:      publ. coverage            trav       have:
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JTAS                   defunct      GDW   almost exclusive   #1 - 24     all
   (Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society)
High Passage           defunct      fasa  exclusive          #1 - 5      all
Far Traveller          defunct      fasa  exclusive          #1 - 2      all
Challenge              active       GDW   non-exclusive      #26 - 71    all
Travellers' Digest     defunct      DGP   almost exclusive   #1 - 21     all
MegaTraveller Journal  defunct      DGP   exclusive          #1 - 4      all
Adventure Gaming       defunct      ?     occasional         #1 - 13
Ares                   defunct      TSR   occasional         #1 - 17
Ares Special Edition   defunct      TSR   occasional         #1-2
Different Worlds       defunct      ?     occasional          ?
Dragon                 active       TSR   occasional         to #120     #30+
Dungeoneer             ?            ?     ocassional          ?
Far and Away           defunct      ?     non-exclusive      #1-2
GM                     ?            ?     ?                  #1 - 30+?
Gryphon                ?   James Steuard  ocassional         #1 - 3?     #1-3
Multiverse             defunct      ?     rarely?            ?
Pegasus                ?                  ocassional         #1 - 9?     #9
The Scroll             active             occasional         #1-9+
The Space Gamer        ?            ?     ocassional         #1 - 70+?
Voyages                defunct  Starlance non-exlusive       #7-17       #7-14
  (continuation of the fanzine Jumpspace)
White Dwarf            ?            GW    occasional         to #99
White Wolf             ?            ?     rarely, if ever    ?
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 
I need help completing these lists!
 
Also, I'm trying to collect all articles ever published for Traveller.
If you have anything on the above lists that I do not have,
perhaps we could work out some sort of trade...
 
                        Sincerely,
 
                        Roger Sanger

------------------------------

Bundle: 551
Archive-Message-Number: 6917
From: roneill@PROCASE.COM (Ronan O Neill)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 94 16:58:38 PST
Subject: RE : starport B shipping (microjumps)


grant@cleese.apana.org.au enquired :

>This also avoids having to come up with all the stats for a jump-0 drive
(unless it is in Brilliant Lances, which I don't have).  Have GDW ever
shown support for micro jumps, incidentally?  I know it is "official"
(DGP, wasn't it?) but I can't remember ever seeing GDW using them.  If not
in Brilliant Lances, maybe Loren could give a ruling.
>

Yep, I know of at least one occassion in which GDW made good use of
the microjump method of insystem travel. It was in their campaign
"KnightFall" for Megatraveller. At the start of the campaign there
was a detailed account of how a deep penentration invasion force
used a microjump to travel from there jump entry point (well outside
the planets scanning range to the primary planet. This bypassed all
insystem defenses and gave no warning of the imminent attack by the
fleet. It was a crucial element in the adventure, so who knows
maybe it was just used as a convient plot device. It's been a while
since I've looked over my MegaTraveller books, so i've no idea whether
they previously covered this.


Ronan O'Neill
roneill@procase.com

------------------------------

Bundle: 551
Archive-Message-Number: 6918
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 94 18:46:46 PST
From: dgilber@cariboo.bc.ca (Dean Gilbert)
Subject: 2300AD

I'm looking to connect with some people who play 2300AD.  I'm just about
ready to start a campaign using the Shatterzone rules, but with 2300AD
background (one of the best IMHO).

Ftp sites with 2300AD material would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks


------------------------------

Bundle: 551
Archive-Message-Number: 6919
Date: Fri, 04 Mar 1994 21:43:32 -0500 (EST)
From: WADDELL@delphi.com
Subject: Hazel System

re: Mr. Perkins request...

How about adjusting the system generation a bit.  Move the companion star
into the habitable orbit with your main world.  Place the world in a 
trojan orbit 60 degrees ahead or behind the companion star.  If the 
companion star is M class it should have little effect on the temperature
but the tides will be impressive.  

The companion star could have a few worlds orbiting it mostly similar to 
moons around a gas giant.  If you wanted to justify the amber rating you 
could have asteroids locked into the trojan points as well making 
navigation to your main world hazardous.

If you did this you could have a thriving industry on the main world as 
they sent out pilots to direct incoming and outgoing ships through the 
asteroids.

later,

Allen Waddell

------------------------------

Bundle: 551
Archive-Message-Number: 6920
From: j.kundert@genie.geis.com
Date: Sat,  5 Mar 94 03:17:00 BST
Subject: TNE VRF Gauss Guns & Sand

psualum@aol.com says (in message 6903):
 >Subject: equipment & errata
 
 ...
 
 >I also have found some more suspicious items in the
 >T:TNE rules.  In the Autoguns weapon listings for the
 >VRF Gauss guns I have the following stats which seem
 >to be slightly transposed:
 >
 >                       -----Weight----
 >Caliber              Empty    Loaded Ammo  Magazine
 >- ------------------------------------------------------
 >VRF Gauss gun (veh)   26.68   41.68  15    30000C/2
 >VRF Gauss gun (mp)   162.68  162.43  0.25  500C/137
 >
 >                     Price      Price
 >Caliber              Weapon     Ammo
 >- ---------------------------------------
 >VRF Gauss gun (veh)  4213     0.01/320
 >VRF Gauss gun (mp)   5103     0.01/915
 >
 >
 >Somehow it just seems counter-intuitive that the
 >vehicular weapon weighs less.  It seems that most of
 >the above numbers for the veh model with the exception
 >of ammo wt. and magazine cap. should be switched with
 >the mp model and vice-versa.
 
 I had the same question, and asked Loren about this
(via GEnie) several weeks ago.  The numbers _are_ correct,
as the "man-luggable" version needs batteries (HEAVY
batteries) to fire all those rounds.  The vehicle-mounted
weapon draws power from the vehicle, and thus doesn't need
batteries.  The "Man-Portable" VRF Gauss Gun is really the
high-tech equivalent of an emplaced machine-gun, and is not
man-portable in the same sense that the PGMP and FGMP are.
 
 >Another item: what is the mass of a sand cannister and
 >what is its volume?  I assume the improvement in beam
 >reduction by sand casters is a result of the electro-
 >magnetic field generated and not because of different
 >types of sand.
 
 These are in FF&S, page 58 ("Defensive Systems"). A
cannister masses 0.5 tonnes and displaces 0.5 m3. The
improving performance is due to increased control at first,
but the switch to gravitically controlled sand allows
nonmagnetic (and more efficient) sand to be used.
 
 >Peter B. Juzyk
 
 James Kundert
 <james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>
 <j.kundert@genie.geis.com>
 
 There was a young lady named Bright,
 Whose speed was much faster, much faster than Light.
 She departed one day in a relative way,
 And returned on the previous Night.
    -Albert & the Heart of Gold
 
 

------------------------------

Bundle: 551
Archive-Message-Number: 6921
From: j.kundert@genie.geis.com
Date: Sat,  5 Mar 94 05:14:00 BST
Subject: RE: VRF Gauss Gun

Ah, I see Edjs has beaten me to this one.
 
 James Kundert
 <james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>
 <j.kundert@genie.geis.com>

------------------------------

Bundle: 551
Archive-Message-Number: 6922
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Is there a biologist in the house?
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 1994 18:48:52 +0100 (MET)

  This is a question with some connection to a thing for Traveller that
I'm thinking about: Several years ago I encountered a 'thumb rule' of
evolution that went something like this "It take X years for a new
species to develop, Y years for a family, Z for an order, N for a new sex
and M for a kingdom." This is very aproximate and the time periods was
obviously very aproximate too.
  But I'm interested in it as indicator of what is resonable and what is
not.

  So, do anyone know the proper time periods for the various hierarchical
levels from kingdom to species?
 
- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Bundle: 551
Archive-Message-Number: 6923
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 1994 15:47:01 -0800
From: rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger)
Subject: which game system do you use?

 
 
Alex Holt asked:
 
 >1) Which one of the Traveller rules sets is the best in terms of
 >playability?
 
I'd say it's a mixed bag.  I use subsystems from each of the eras
of Traveller.  The task resolution system of TNE seems the
easiest to use for me, though I employ a more gradiated
difficulty scale than they do, modifying their chart by adding
intermediary levels of difficulty (a modifier at each interval of
1/8th).
 
The character generation systems of each of the games are too
cumbersome and time consuming for me, plus players tend to wind
up with characters they aren't happy with, so I use the following
2 methods:
 
Method 1:  I determine what careers, skills, skill-levels, and
equipment would be unacceptable for the scenario/setting to be
played in, and make these off-limits.  Then I let each player
choose his character's career and the number of terms he's been
in it (sometimes I put a cap on terms).  Stats are rolled
normally on 2d6, ignoring entrance requirments.  Then each player
rolls a 6-sider to determine the number of skills he gets per
term, then he spends his skill points on whatever skills he wants
from the the skill charts for his class in the MegaTraveller
Player's Manual, except for chart 4 unless or until he has the
requisite education level.  Mustering out is done normally.  I
find that this system cuts out a lot of dice rolling.
 
Method 2:  Takes more prep-work on the ref's part, but once the
prep-work is done, this saves precious game session time, and
gets the players into play much faster.  The ref simply generates
a bunch of characters in advance (the more the better), and lets
his players choose which ones they want to be.  Variations on
this theme I've used successfully are giving discretionary skill
points for the players to spend to customize their characters a
bit, or a limited number of edits for the same purpose.  I keep
the changes allowed down to minimum (say 2d6 points worth) to
reduce time spent in character generation.
 
The experience system in TNE is a good concept, but much too
generous.  I basically use the same system, but grant smaller
rewards.
 
As for combat, I often just wing it.  The players don't know the
difference, as my nose is always in the book.  I like the TNE
combat system best.  In my game, I use the task-resolution system
with several modifications.  As for ship damage, I note the
game's rules as guidelines, but above all try to keep it
cinematic.
 
2) Do people enjoy playing in space (ie from world to world) vs.  on a
single world?
 
In my experience, both.  It all has to do with how good your
background material is.
 
For instance, Glisten/Glisten/Spinward Marches was written up in
one of the Traveller's Digests.  It makes for a very rich
campaign setting:  A high-tech high-population civilization
living in an asteroid system, with lots of in-system traffic.
One of my campaign branches deals with a pair of Scout
Intelligence Operatives posing as employees of a company based
there, for the purposes of finding and tracking enemy spies.
There's been so much activity there, that they've had no need to
leave the system.
 
On the other hand, travelling around is handled well in The
Traveller Adventure, with encounters and mini-scenarios along the
way.
 
Hope that helps,
 
Roger Sanger.
 

------------------------------

Bundle: 551
Archive-Message-Number: 6924
From: john.bogan@asb.com
Date: Sun, 06 Mar 94 01:56:49 
Subject: COMPANION STARS & ORBITS


Roger Sanger reported a problem with the main world being one orbit inside
of a companion star.

Assuming you're using T:TNE rules, check out page 192 at the bottom right
corner, step 12.  Certain orbits are prohibited from being occupied
by planets depending on the orbit of the star.

I fyou are not using TNE, stable orbits are available within roughly 1/3
of the separation between the two stars, and outside of 3 times their 
separation.

Also note that the "companion" star doesn't really orbit the primary star,
the two stars orbit around a common center of mass.  Putting the 
companion in one of the primary's orbits is just a simplified way of noting
the separation between the two.

Planets in the orbit numbers greater than the companion star actually orbit
the center of mass of the two stars.  Again, noting their position as
the "primary's" orbit numbers is just a way of keeping the record-keeping
simple.

My advice:  Move the star further out or closer in, so that it doen't 
interfere with the orbit of the main world.


John H Bogan


------------------------------

Bundle: 551
Archive-Message-Number: 6925
From: mgood@MIT.EDU
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 94 15:50:22 -0500
Subject: Why, I can rationalise ANYTHING!!

Vanya say:

>      My only problem with this change (and it is a DRASTIC change
>when your players move about a system) is how to explain the
>transmogrification of the starship to the players when they finally
>thaw from their 60+ year sleep.  Telling them it takes weeks to travel
>a distance a distance it only took days to travel in the old system
>does not contribute to campaign realism and consistency (not to
>mention the disappearance of the triple-beams).  Of course, according
>to Mr Nilsen's rant from january, were should all just throw pixie
>dust out the back of our ships.

I've ranted about this before, but here's some constructive help
I've rationalized from my Campaign:

HOW TO EXPLAIN MAJOR CHANGED IN TRAVELLER TO YOUR FRESHLY THAWED PCs

In my campaign, they had to have the Hivers of Spica (the Six Hexed
Nest) do a major refit of their Azhanti High Lightning Class Ship.

They did the following:

Replaced the (now useless) Particle Accellerator Bays with more
splufty Laser Bays for political reasons (they couldn't repair PAs).

Replaced all the "worn out" turrets with new ones: they replaced
triple turrets with Barbettes.

Replaced the Mysterio Drives (whatever powered CT M-Drives) with less
efficient (but less potentially dangerous) HEPlaR Thrusters.  Y'See,
at the OLD velocities, the E-VIL Virus could pulp everyone in the 
ship... and, um, these drives don't need as much computer control...
see?

If you do a direct conversion of CT ships to TNE ships, they have
about 50 g-turns of fuel WITH THE SAME FUEL CAPACITY AS THE CT SHIPS
because of the way PP and JD fuel consumption has changed.

They are slower though.  Don't have any scientists in my group,
though (whew!)

"Ship go real fast ZOOOOM!!"

"How far away is the other ship?"

"6,000 kilometers. No WAIT, _60_000 kilometers..." says I.

Vanya say:

>      What this also does is almost completely eliminate the strategic
>usefulness of gas giants for military operations.  No longer will a
>system haveto scatter its now-crippled SDBs amongst the system
>covering gas giants, they can orbit a primary planet shoulder to
>shoulder and wait for the enemy to come to them.  But, when the enemy
>gets there, they'll be short on fuel.

One of the cool things about TNE (and I don't know if this was true of
MT) is that there's all sorts of economical ways to defend a system.
Lots of teeny-tiny mines hooked into a sensor grid patiently waiting
to blow up anything that doesn't meet a well defined list of
parameters...  but I think this issue has been pretty well covered.

Your point though, that the STRUCTURE of space defence has changed, is
ab-o-solutely right.

>      Why not? Since the physics of the universe has change for TNE,
>why not the history of it as well?  This time, GDW has shown that it
>doesnt care about the established history of Traveller, much less my
>TL13 'just add water' mercenary unit. (Fusion gun *ammo*? Geeeze..)

You can STILL do a "Just Add Water" unit, you just have to shift
gears from Fusion to Lasers.  The end result (enemy go BOOM!) is 
still the same, and you still don't have to worry about making ammo.

I've completed a Tank design along these lines, I just need to pretty
it up for ASCII transport...

Mark Urbin asks: 
>Challenge 72  Has anybody seen it?

Nope, not me, and I have a subscription...

Matt

------------------------------

Bundle: 551
Archive-Message-Number: 6926
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 1994 18:33:41 -0500
From: eclipse@world.std.com (Mark Urbin)
Subject: FF&S II


 
  I was looking through the list of upcoming products that Loren was
nice enough post.  There was no mention of a FF&S follow.  On page 4 of
FF&S, it's noted that it didn't cover as many subjects as they liked.  Some
of the topics listed as up for future work are: "wet" ships, robots,
primitive transport, and genetic engineering.
 
  The "wet" ship design is the biggest hole, IMHO.  What is the
offical word on addressing these topics?  Is GDW still planning on
releasing a"FF&S II"?  It would be nice to drop us some tidbits before
hand.  Challange Mag is a good forum for this.  Wet ship design could be
published in a one or two peice article.  Followed perhaps by basic robot
design.
 
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  \      oo    				Mark Urbin  eclipse@world.std.com
   \____|\mm   "Vouf, Vouf!"		These opinions are mine, no one 
   // //\ \_\  "Good Dog!"		will claim them...
  /K-9/  \/_/  "Put down the Gauss pistols!"
 /___/_____\   				
 ----------- 	  Where am I going and what am I doing in this handbasket?
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Bundle: 551
Archive-Message-Number: 6927
From: burnchrome@aol.com
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 94 20:51:32 EST
Subject: Unsubscribe

please unsubscribe me from this list 

burnchrome@aol.com

------------------------------

Bundle: 551
Archive-Message-Number: 6928
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 94 00:38:08 PST
From: Dane Johnson  <djohnson@willamette.edu>
Subject: Holes in Imperium && FF&S


When last we left our heroes, Mark Urbin had commented about the lack
of Wet Navy ships in FF&S.  Although I agree that the "generic" vehicle
design sequence is sort of crippled by the lack of a major class of
craft, I personally missed Robot rules more (especially considering they
decided to include Bionics).

Really, the whole lack of Robots is connected to a sort of major hole in
the Imperium-as-published:  Major cultural elements which are described
as such are provided with insufficient coverage.  Robots are one
example, Aliens are another.  Consider the lowly Bwap.  Although this
minor race has been spacefaring since the First Imperium and enjoys a
wide dispersion throughout the Third (having been described as common
merchants) I had never heard of them until I stumbled across a copy of
The Best of the JoTAS...Robots, more or less described as Ubiquitous at
TL of 13 and up (at least), have also only put in minor appearances.

<Grump, grump>

Granted that these quibbles are less applicable to a TNE campaign where
robotics and automation may play a lesser role, they remain issues in
the Regency...

Dane
djohnson@willamette.edu   dane@halcyon.edu

TNS Stringer ------ Terra/Solomani Rim (1827 G867975-8)
"My opinions are those of my fuzz-brained, cat-sniffing Norwegian Elkhound."

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 94 22:00:03 EST
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #552: Msgs 6929-6946 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Sun Mar 13 22:00:02 EST 1994
Reply-To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Errors-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Mar 94 22:00:03 EST
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #552: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 552  6929 08-Mar-1994 yfcw29@castle.e  HEPLAR drives as a weapon. << I am a Tr
 552  6930 08-Mar-1994 zcfbj00          Anyone know what Maintenance Points are
 552  6931 08-Mar-1994 "Pedro A.C. Tav  2300 problems << Hello everybody,
 552  6932 08-Mar-1994 Mark Urbin       starship miniatures <<   I stopped by m
 552  6933 08-Mar-1994 Theodore F Vaid  Re: TML nightly: Msgs 6927-6932 V69#17 
 552  6934 08-Mar-1994 Caffine Achieve  Re: TML nightly: Msgs 6927-6932 V69#17 
 552  6935 08-Mar-1994 James Kundert    Tuesday's Nightly various << Dane Johns
 552  6936 09-Mar-1994 john991@tampa.r  << Subject: Re: Starship Miniatures <Ma
 552  6937 10-Mar-1994 A.S.Lilly@bnr.c  TNE World Atmosphere Generation << Re 5
 552  6938 10-Mar-1994 A.S.Lilly@bnr.c  MT Rule Simplification << Hi, the follo
 552  6939 10-Mar-1994 Arthur Green     Hard science (difficult science?) and p
 552  6940 10-Mar-1994 john991@tampa.r  TML nightly: Msgs 6933-6935 V69#18 << <
 552  6941 11-Mar-1994 Roger Sanger     CT items for sale... <<  
 552  6942 11-Mar-1994 Wilcox David T   World design in TNE <<  In the errata a
 552  6943 01-Mar-1994 b.borich@genie.  psi-jumps <<  
 552  6944 01-Mar-1994 b.borich@genie.  ADS <<  
 552  6945 11-Mar-1994 b.borich@genie.  Looking for Paveway <<     I'm looking 
 552  6946 11-Mar-1994 Theodore F Vaid  FTP access to ftp.engrg.uwo.ca << WHat 

------------------------------

Bundle: 552
Archive-Message-Number: 6929
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 94 9:00:09 GMT
From: yfcw29@castle.edinburgh.ac.uk
Subject: HEPLAR drives as a weapon.

I am a Traveller player from way back, recently brought back into the fold
by TNE. I bought MT, but rarely played it due to the scarcity of MT players
in the uk. Traveller almost died out here with the release of MT.

I currently own copies of the TNE rules and FF&S, I was put off buying BL
by the combat system in the roleplaying game. I resoned that if they were
capable of putting such a roleplaying-hostile set of rules in the RPG, the
board game version would be even less playable in a roleplaying context.

I don't want to denigrate the excellent work that has gone into the TNE
background an rules, but there do seem to be a few anomalies which I would
like to see cleared up. The principal problem is with HEPLAR propulsion.

HEPLAR drives are not a recent idea, Larry Niven's stories have
included a similar system for a long time, the basic idea is just to put
a hole in a fusion reactor and bigo - instant fusion drive. (Simplified,
but that's the theory). Another axiom from Niven's Known Space series is
that the efficiency of a propulsion system is directly proportional to it's
efficiency as a weapon. If you work out the exhaust velocity of a HEPLAR
thrust jet, it approximates to one quarter of the speed of light! There are
two problems with this: a) I very much doubt that a fusion drive is capable
of generating exhaust velocities even approaching this. b) If I were
responsible for planetary space traffic controll, I would not allow a HEPLAR
drive inside the orbit of the moon, let alone land on the planet's surface.
Even worse, Some of the example planetary vehicles use HEPLAR propulsion!
Anyone care to calculate the weapon statistics for a typical HEPLAR drive?

There is a way round this : use a denser fluid as the exhaust gas. The most
suitable medium is probably water. By mixing the exhaust hydrogen with an
inert medium you actualy increse the efficiency of the drive. A lot of the
energy in a pure hydrogen exhaust would be lost as thermal radiation and
gamma rays, contributing no thrust. These would be absorbed by a dense
exhaust agent and so increase efficiency. Also, water is denser than hydrogen,
so the volume of reaction mass would be reduced.

Simon Hibbs
yfcw29@castle.ed.ac.uk.
Please mention my name in the subject line.

------------------------------

Bundle: 552
Archive-Message-Number: 6930
From: zcfbj00 <zcfbj00@ucl.ac.uk>
Subject: Anyone know what Maintenance Points are?!
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 94 10:27:23 +0000


Hi folks,
	I have a couple of problems regarding a few things in FF&S (hats off to
all involved in its making - darn good product, crawl, crawl, bootlick, etc.).
	First off, does anyone know what Maintenance Points are, and how they 
are used? I can't seem to find any reference in the TNE main rules (or the FF&S
ones, for that matter) about them, other than whats stated in the ship design
round-up bit.
	Is it me, or do you actually get two different values (through two
different calculations) when determining Maintenance Points. One calculation
is the aforementioned one that is one of the final steps in the ship design 
sequence at the start of FF&S, which adds up the total mass of the ship minus
that of its hull shell, then divides it by various numbers. The other 
calculation is in the crew calculation step, when you're finding how many 
Maintenance Crew you'll need on the ship (i assume these are Technicians, as 
opposed to Engineers). I seem to get different numbers for each of these 
calculations, so which one do I use, and which one is stated whenever I see
a complete ship description (where it says 'Maint: 123' (or whatever). HELP!!

	One other thing - what exactly are Stewards, and why do you need them
on non-passenger ships? I can guess that on a military ship, they function as 
Quartermasters for the Ships Troops, and they serve an obvious function on a 
passenger ship, but what are their duties on say, a Scout Ship?
	BTW, I've got lots of new rules (of my own devising) concerning Gravitic
Technology, which might be useful regarding this little kerfuffle that seems 
to be going on about microjumps. If anyone's interested, then do email, or say
so on any replies to my queries on the net!
	That's all for now, I'd really appreciate any help on these questions.

	Ta-Ta For Now, Constantine Thomas (zcfbj00@ucl.ac.uk)

------------------------------

Bundle: 552
Archive-Message-Number: 6931
Date:         Tue, 08 Mar 94 17:40:08 PRT
From: "Pedro A.C. Tavares" <FTAVARES%PTEARN.BITNET@FRMOP11.CNUSC.FR>
Subject:      2300 problems

Hello everybody,

I have a few questions about 2300 and Star Cruiser that I decided to post
to the TML and also directly to the members of the 2300 list.  I would like
to receive some feedback from these on what format they would like the
list to work.  I also got a few "undelivered message" so if you're reading
this on TML but not through direct mail let me know.

# To Dean Gilbert: I read your request for 2300 info on the TML and decided
to include you in this list.  Let me know if you prefer to be removed.

# To the TML administrator:  I've been contacting people in the computer
center to create a ftp site for 2300 here in Lisbon.  But in this place
everything happens very slowly.  What do you think of creating a 2300AD
directory in the TML site (maybe there is one already, I haven't been there
for some time)?

Now for the real stuff:
    I tried out a few star cruiser scenarios and found out that a ship
with average crew quality has no chance of repairing any damage but power
plant damage.  How do you handle this?
    On the same game, is there a errata for it?  The ship design book is
loaded with mistakes and omissions (for example there was something about
determining weight or area of a weapon's fixture that was contradictory between
the rules and the examples but I don't remember the details).

    About 2300 does anyone have any information from "Invasion" in computer
form (an on-line version from GDW would be really nice).  I discovered that
it is out of print and I haven't been able to find a copy anywhere.

    I have been designing a few vehicles for the game and came up against
something apparently inconsistent: the price of the Swift Songbird utility
hover seems a little too high.  It costs Lv20 000 which is more expensive
than a limousine (Lv15 000) and terribly more expensive than another hover
from Matsu, the Snow Demon costing Lv4000.  The later is smaller and slower
but is a difference of 5 times acceptable?  (even a large wheeled transport
is cheaper than the songbird)

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Pedro A.C. Tavares

Faculdade de Ciencias - Universidade de Lisboa

Email: ftavares@ptearn.bitnet
       ftavares@ptearn.fc.ul.pt
       ftavares@scosysv.cc.fc.ul.pt
       pedro@eltn.utwente.nl
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Bundle: 552
Archive-Message-Number: 6932
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 17:02:01 -0500
From: mju@ftp.com (Mark Urbin)
Subject: starship miniatures


  I stopped by my local game shop asking for the new Traveller miniatures.
The owner couldn't find `em in the Chessex catalog.  Could someone please
provide me with some info on them.  Who makes them? Which ones are available?
Ball park figures on prices?

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  \      oo    				Mark Urbin  mju@ftp.com
   \____|\mm   "Vouf, Vouf!"		These opinions are mine, no one 
   // //\ \_\  "Good Dog!"		will claim them...
  /K-9/  \/_/  "Put down the Gauss pistols!"
 /___/_____\   				eclipse@world.std.com
 ----------- 	  Where am I going and what am I doing in this handbasket?
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Bundle: 552
Archive-Message-Number: 6933
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 1994 23:50:14 EST
From: tfv0@Lehigh.EDU (Theodore F Vaida ][)
Subject: Re: TML nightly: Msgs 6927-6932 V69#17

Hmm...

two questions:
	is there an error in the TNE book regarding world creation?  I keep
getting worlds with really high atmospheres and hydrospheres (like
8,9,A,... etc).  The rules indicate I shou;d roll 2d6 and add the planet's
size.  What gives?

other questiong, whats FF&S?
- ---------==============Sig file cover sheet=====================---------
                  ->POLAR CAPS<- or tfv0@lehigh.edu
      Pages including this page:  1
                                -----
"One must not confuse John Donne's famous quote `No man is an Island' with
 New York Telephone's `We're all connected'" - Dad
"Trust no one, and be honest with all"  _Claudius_the_God_, and Dad
   Paranoid, but it'll keep you out of trouble...
"Thats Stupid... heh heh..." - Beavis & Butthead
"He said.... p...p...p..." - Beavis & Butthead
- ---------=======================================================---------


------------------------------

Bundle: 552
Archive-Message-Number: 6934
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 94 21:12:21 PST
From: Caffine Achiever! <fok@scf.usc.edu>
Subject: Re: TML nightly: Msgs 6927-6932 V69#17

> Simon Hibbs
> From: yfcw29@castle.edinburgh.ac.uk
[stuff...deleted]
> 
> HEPLAR drives are not a recent idea, Larry Niven's stories have
> included a similar system for a long time, the basic idea is just to put
> a hole in a fusion reactor and bigo - instant fusion drive. (Simplified,
> but that's the theory). Another axiom from Niven's Known Space series is
> that the efficiency of a propulsion system is directly proportional to it's
> efficiency as a weapon. If you work out the exhaust velocity of a HEPLAR
> thrust jet, it approximates to one quarter of the speed of light! There are
> two problems with this: a) I very much doubt that a fusion drive is capable
> of generating exhaust velocities even approaching this. b) If I were
> responsible for planetary space traffic controll, I would not allow a HEPLAR
> drive inside the orbit of the moon, let alone land on the planet's surface.

Sticking to the GDW definition of Plasma Physics,  You're absolutely
correct on both points!

> Even worse, Some of the example planetary vehicles use HEPLAR propulsion!
> Anyone care to calculate the weapon statistics for a typical HEPLAR drive?

When within a planetary atmosphere it should behave like a
plasma/fusion weapon of similar output.  However, it should also be as
harmless as a fusion gun in space.  All the charged ions from the
plasma will repell each other once outside of the confines of the
power plant's magnetic containment field, thus instanting dissapating
the exhaust.

> There is a way round this : use a denser fluid as the exhaust gas. The most
> suitable medium is probably water. By mixing the exhaust hydrogen with an
> inert medium you actualy increse the efficiency of the drive. A lot of the
> energy in a pure hydrogen exhaust would be lost as thermal radiation and
> gamma rays, contributing no thrust. These would be absorbed by a dense
> exhaust agent and so increase efficiency. Also, water is denser than hydrogen,
> so the volume of reaction mass would be reduced.

The amount of additional thrust from this would be minimal when
compared to the *incredible* amount from the HEPlaR drive.  Once the
water is heated to a certain point all you'll get is increasingly
ionized hydrogen and oxygen without any increaing gains in thrust.

All thing considered, I'll stick to the HEPlaR as it is.  If you look
too closely at the 'science' behind Traveller you'll find all kinds of
problems with it.

Remember to have fun and leave the 'Hard science' out of Traveller.

- -EF

------------------------------

Bundle: 552
Archive-Message-Number: 6935
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 94 22:33:37 PST
From: James Kundert <james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>
Subject: Tuesday's Nightly various

Dane Johnson  <djohnson@willamette.edu>, in Message #6928, says:

 >Consider the lowly Bwap.  Although this
 >minor race has been spacefaring since the First Imperium and enjoys a
 >wide dispersion throughout the Third (having been described as common
 >merchants) I had never heard of them until I stumbled across a copy of
 >The Best of the JoTAS

 The Bwaps (or Newts) first appeared in JTAS #11 (pub. 1981), and have
only appeared once or twice in print aside from their Contact article.
I agree, this is a shame.  The reason for their effective disappearance
is fairly obvious, however, once you look back at the MegaTraveller
era and all of its problems.  The two people who created the Bwaps
were not really part of the Megatraveller period.  Both had other
projects to pursue (Battletech for one), and DGP found another
race (the Vilani) to take over the role of instinctive bureaucrats.
Of the two creators, one has come back to TNE with a vengeance, while
the other is trying his hand at the SF (non-gaming) market, having
exhausted Battletech's potential.  The two are Loren Wiseman and
Bill Keith.  With Loren back in the arena, we may see the Newts again.
Here's hoping.

 -------
 Then, yfcw29@castle.edinburgh.ac.uk (in message #6929), said:

 >...I was put off buying BL by the combat system in the roleplaying
 >game. I resoned that if they were capable of putting such a
 >roleplaying-hostile set of rules in the RPG, the board game version
 >would be even less playable in a roleplaying context.

 Actually, with a map, counters, and _visible_ movement system, BL is
easier to pick up.  The hard part is designing ships, not using them.

 -------
 Furthermore, Constantine Thomas <zcfbj00@ucl.ac.uk> (in message
#6930) said:

 >First off, does anyone know what Maintenance Points are, and how
 >they are used? I can't seem to find any reference in the TNE main
 >rules (or the FF&S ones, for that matter) about them, other than
 >whats stated in the ship design round-up bit.

  TNE Rulebook, pages 241-244.  Maintenance points are the number of
hours per week a vehicle or other piece of hardware requires to run
risk-free.  For even small starships, this amounts to a full-time
job for several people.  Fortunately, many TNE skills are now both
'use' and 'maintenance' skills, when they were just 'use' skills in CT
and MT, so there are more maintenance personnel on-board a ship than
first appears.

 >Is it me, or do you actually get two different values (through two
 >different calculations) when determining Maintenance Points. One
 >calculation is the aforementioned one that is one of the final
 >steps in the ship design sequence at the start of FF&S, which adds
 >up the total mass of the ship minus that of its hull shell, then
 >divides it by various numbers. The other calculation is in the crew
 >calculation step, when you're finding how many Maintenance Crew
 >you'll need on the ship (i assume these are Technicians, as 
 >opposed to Engineers).

  The number under "Calculating Maintenance Points" (the final step
in ship design) is the one to use.  As a house rule, you may want
to calculate this value both with and without Cargo mass included, to
give a better idea of the "ship only" maintenance requirements.
  Yes, the Maintenance Crew are "Technicians." They are hired for
their Mechanical, Electronics, Gravitics, Communications and related
skills, though Ship's Engineering is certainly appreciated.  Ship's
Engineering is non-optional for Engineering Crew, and the Chief should
have a touch of Starship Architecture as well.

 >...what exactly are Stewards, and why do you need them on
 >non-passenger ships?

  Even adventurers and Scouts appreciate someone who can cook.
  The formula for Stewards is such that you must be designing some
BIG ships to get Stewards without passengers.
  The Steward position is filled based on the Service skill (the
TNE equivalent of Steward) as well as other skills based on the
nature of the ship.  Stewards often double as Supercargo and Purser,
meaning Marketing, Liaison, Admin/Legal, and Bargain skills would
be important, plus whatever skill would serve to allow the Steward
to "perform maintenance" on the Cargo (I admit I'm at a loss here).
They can also serve as assistants to the Ship's Doctor, making a
bit of Medical(Trauma Aid) handy if they serve on a large liner.

 -------
 Finally, mju@ftp.com (Mark Urbin) says in Message #6932:

 >I stopped by my local game shop asking for the new Traveller
 >miniatures. The owner couldn't find `em in the Chessex catalog.
 >Could someone please provide me with some info on them.  Who
 >makes them? Which ones are available? Ball park figures on prices?

 RAFM makes them, everything in the TNE book at or under 400 tons
is available, and all packs are in the $6-$8 range with quantity
varying by type.  It took my local store quite a while to find
them also, but they _are_ available.

 -------

James Kundert <j.kundert@genie.geis.com>
              <james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>

There was a young lady named Bright,
Whose speed was much faster, much faster than Light.
She departed one day in a relative way,
And returned on the previous Night.
   --Albert & the Heart of Gold

------------------------------

Bundle: 552
Archive-Message-Number: 6936
From: john991@tampa.relay.ucm.org
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 1994 05:27:33 CST

Subject: Re: Starship Miniatures <Mark Urbin>
 
Mark Urbin <mju@ftp.com> asks about starship miniatures. What is available
and who makes them.
 
RAFM manufactures the miniatures. Our local store has been carrying them
since Late December.
 
Vehicles available: System Defence Boat, Gazelle Close Escort, Imperial
Patrol Cruiser, Subsidized Merchant, Free Trader, Far Trader, Lab Ship,
Yacht, Shuttle, Launch, Modular Cutter, Pinnance.
 
And yes they all closely match the drawings we've all seen for the past
decade. I am pleased with the entire line overall.
 
John Bucsek           John991@tampa.relay.ucm.org

------------------------------

Bundle: 552
Archive-Message-Number: 6937
From: A.S.Lilly@bnr.co.uk
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 94 09:20:28 GMT
Subject: TNE World Atmosphere Generation

Re 552/6933 tfv0@Lehigh.EDU

You said the TNE rules said use 2d6 + world size for atmosphere.

The old rules (CT and MT) both use 2d6 - 7 + world size.

I would assume the TNE rules have a typo (the other possibility being that
you read the rules wrong; I don't have TNE so I can't check this out).

Andy Lilly

Commander, PITS Team (Political Intelligence Team, Scout)
"We are never out-gunned..."
Nothing I say or do here in anyway reflects the views of my very kind,
understanding and generally wonderful employers

------------------------------

Bundle: 552
Archive-Message-Number: 6938
From: A.S.Lilly@bnr.co.uk
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 94 09:42:48 GMT
Subject: MT Rule Simplification

Hi, the following might apply to CT, MT or possibly even TNE?

This is probably a subject that went out with the ark (well with the start of
TNE anyway) but I wondered if anyway had ever simplified the MT combat system.
All the multipliers seemed to create either little or an excess of damage,
while being too complex for my bunch of (Wookie-IQ) players to handle.
So I came up with the following system (just in case anyone's interested):

1) Roll to hit as per the rules.

2) Damage is P + D - A + X where:
P = Weapon penetration value
D = 1 dice of damage per 'damage point' given in the MT Player's book
A = 2 x Armour value
X = 1 extra dice of damage per category by which the To Hit roll exceeded the
    value required.

e.g. Bonzo's pistol at medium range happens to be rated as pen 2, dmg 3 and he
needs a 7 (Routine) to hit his target who is wearing a flak jacket (armour 4).

He rolls 10 which, including his skill of 2, gives 12 - a hit, and a high
enough roll to enter the next hit category ( Difficult: 11), hence getting
a bonus die on his damage to reflect a well-aimed shot.

He rolls 4d6 (3 dmg + 1 for the good dice roll) -> 14. Add penetration -> 16.
The armour effectively absorbs 8 points of this damage, so his target takes
8 points of damage.

3) Applying damage to stats
My characters use a Hit Point system (Yuck! That's for D&D players isn't it?).
The hit points are divided into two parts: the number of points of damage that
can be taken before causing unconsciousness, and the number beyond that to cause
death. The first value is the sum of the 2 highest attributes out of STR, DEX
and END. The second value is the remaining 3rd attribute.

e.g. Bonzo's target was Bilbo. Bilbo has S5 D7 E6, giving him hitpoints of 13/5
(i.e. once he's taken 13 points he's KO'ed, if he ever takes more than 18 total
damage then it's tomb time).

Bilbo can happily take Bonzo's pistol shot without dying or even being KO'ed
(assuming he had not been previously damaged).

However, there is an additional rule which deals with the shock effects of
being hit... any character taking _more_ damage in a round than his highest
atttribute value, is stunned for a round due to hydrostatic shock, etc.

So, Bilbo's highest is 7 (Dex) and he took 8 damage. Interpreting this for the
players, I tell Bonzo that he took aim and squeezed off what he thought must 
be a pretty good shot - it hit the target and knocked it over backwards. I then
tell Bilbo that he was hit and although the armour took half the damage, the
bullet penetrated and is wedged in his upper arm (area chosen at random), the
shock of the impact having caused him to fall over backwards. He will have to
lie there for one round, probably groaning and twitching a bit before his
head clears! If he'd taken only 1-3 points of damage I'd probably have said
that the bullet didn't penetrate but he took bruising damage.

The stats are usually written down as boxes or circles for each hit point, with
the points after unconsciousness being in a different size:

Bilbo: Hits: OOOOOOOOOOOOOooooo (Shock 8+)

Just cross 'em off as you take damage...

The system seems to work well with the players (I give them their doubled
armour values at the start to speed things up).

If you've any thoughts, please don't hesitate to call...

=================GENERAL CALL==================
PRIORITY: ALPHA ONE

TO: ANYONE AT ALL CONNECTED WITH *** G D W ***

MESSAGE AS FOLLOWS:
Is there anyone out there? Last time I spoke with
Loren (4+ weeks ago) there'd been trouble getting
e-mail to me. I'm still waiting on a reply re
the manuscript I sent you (for Susan Schug). I don't
know if it has even reached you and I'd like a
response, even if it's just a "Yes, we got it, it's under
consideration".
The l.wiseman1@genie.geis.com address doesn't seem to be valid
any longer but my message to gdw.support@genie.geis.com
doesn't seem to have got a reply either. I'd give you a phone
call direct if I knew your phone number...
REQUEST STATUS: Can anyone out there hear me
Apparently,
"In space, no one can hear you e-mail..." :)
=================MESSAGE ENDS====================

Andy Lilly

Commander, PITS Team (Political Intelligence Team, Scout)
"We are never out-gunned..."
Nothing I say or do here in anyway reflects the views of my very kind,
understanding and generally wonderful employers

------------------------------

Bundle: 552
Archive-Message-Number: 6939
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 1994 09:38:56 +0000 (GMT)
From: Arthur Green <ARTHUR@cclana.ucd.ie>
Subject: Hard science (difficult science?) and planet generation

Gentlesophonts (and Sword Worlders)  -

    I'm in the process of setting up a new campaign using TNE rules but
my own background, maps, history etc (IMHO, too much of the Imperium
technology has been changed in TNE -- if it's the Imperium I want
thruster plates :-). Certain planets in the region I'm designing will be
quite detailed, using sections of DGP's World Builder's Handbook and my
own skill and judgement.

However, there are instances where my own skill and judgement doesn't
cover the gaps in what I want to do. Specifically, has anyone either
any pointers or any views on how a star affects life on its planets in
terms of weather, mutation rates, activity etc? Something like
"Climatology and your local stellar object: an introduction" would be
nice. If such a thing doesn't exist, I can collate the net's wisdom.

 -  Arthur Green
    University College Dublin Computing Services
    Email: arthur@cclana.ucd.ie     Tel: +353 1 706 2456
                                    Fax: +353 1 283 7077


------------------------------

Bundle: 552
Archive-Message-Number: 6940
From: john991@tampa.relay.ucm.org
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 1994 05:30:11 CST
Subject: TML nightly: Msgs 6933-6935 V69#18

<About errors in world creation>
4 World size   should be 2D6-2
5 Atmosphere   should be 2D6-7+SIZE
6 Hydrographics should be 2D6-7+SIZE
8 Government   should be 2D6-7+POP
9 Law lever    should be 2D6-7+GOV
 
These correction and others are covered in the errata book included with FF&S
and available separatly from GDW at no charge (SASE)
 
<Heplar and Fusion> FF&S states that Heplar is not a fusion drive in that
sense. Heplar is NOT radioactive, just very hot <G>. Use fusion rockets if
you want radioactivity. (Yes I agree that GDW has caused some problems with
this rule change)
 
John Bucsek           John991@tampa.relay.ucm.org
 
s

------------------------------

Bundle: 552
Archive-Message-Number: 6941
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 00:43:54 -0800
From: rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger)
Subject: CT items for sale...

 
In case anyone is interested, I have a spare of each of the
following which I'm putting up for sale:
 
Book 1 -- Characters and Combat       \
Book 2 -- Starships                    >    The original Traveller Rules!
Book 3 -- Worlds and Adventures       /
Supplement  3 -- The Spinward Marches       World stats and subsector maps
Supplement  9 -- Fighting Ships             With artwork by Paul Jaquays
Adventure  3 -- Twilight's Peak             The secret of the Droyne
Adventure  5 -- Trillion Credit Squadron    Command in an interstellar war
Alien Module 3 -- Vargr                     Sourcebook on the Dog People
Alien Module 7:  Hivers                     The Hive before the Virus
Best of the Journal 1                       Covers JTAS 1-4.
Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society      #6 - #13
 
Contact me if you are interested.
 
  o o
 \___/
 

------------------------------

Bundle: 552
Archive-Message-Number: 6942
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 11:10:09 -0600 (CST)
From: Wilcox David T <dtw754s@nic.smsu.edu>
Subject: World design in TNE

	In the errata and upgrade booklet that came with FF&S, there is a 
little line hidden that says that Hydrographics, Atmosphere, and Population
are rolled as 2d6-7+World Size. If anyone has that booklet, I think there 
is further information about those rolls, but I lost mine, so I don't know.


------------------------------

Bundle: 552
Archive-Message-Number: 6943
From: b.borich@genie.geis.com
Date: Tue,  1 Mar 94 12:25:00 BST
Subject: psi-jumps

 
Peter Brenton:
    <After reading the article from b.borich> Don't think the credit is
mine. But there are some new Rowan novels out. Other ideas would be useable
from the Darkover Series by Marion Zimmer, the Crystal Singer series by
Anne Maccafferty(?, not psionic, but with a few mods), Space Opera
(Science Fiction RPG)
 
Glenn Meyers,
    <Poul Andersons Technic series is still in print?> Have your bookstore
check it's Books in Print, if it is in print they should be able to order
it for you.

------------------------------

Bundle: 552
Archive-Message-Number: 6944
From: b.borich@genie.geis.com
Date: Tue,  1 Mar 94 12:25:00 BST
Subject: ADS

 
    Courtesy of HIWG-uk, for use with their finder program:
 
:version
Version 0.2 Copyright STarport Group    1991
:starport:hiwg(uk)
Contact     Kevin Parry
            29 The Drive, Orpington, Kent BR6 9AR, UK
:an:pr
p WANTED: Catering Consultants
    MacGristle are taking on 2 new catering consultants
    in their South Starport branch.  Rates are good and
    hours are negotiable.  Apply Agtarafd (Sub-manager)
    at the branch today.
 
Mindless tedium but will provide subsistence food.  Pay
will be 40+2D Cr per week.  Eating all that junk food may
cause problems:
 
       To avoid reduction in Endurance by 1
       Routine, Determination, 1 day [non-fateful]
 
Referee:  Eating junk food takes away stamina and hence
endurance.  Effect wears off after twice the time spent
working at MacGristle.
 
:an
p CAN YOU SELL SHOES?  Come down to Gements shoe mall and
    start a new job in the shoe trade.  Contact Joe on the
    GENIUS E-mail system (id joetheshoe) for further
    details.
 
Selling shoes is selling shoes. Pay 80+2D Cr per week.  No
experience required.
:##
p HELP WANTED.  Good money paid for escort work, No
    references needed.  Phone (evenings) 02345-23
    ask for Jim.
 
Jim is about to marry his rich young girlfriend.  Her
parents are not too happy about this.  They offer 3,000Cr
to the party to get them off the planet.
 
[See 76 Patrons Page 7 for more details]
:##
p SHUNT DRIVE Rx543S:1  Has anyone got a spare shunt drive
    they would like to sell or exchange.  Best prices paid.
    Starport Bay L-3.
 
The ship in bay L-3 is a smuggling ship full of illegal
drugs.  Their warp drive broke in the local system and they
are desperate to get another one and lift before they are
found out.  They promise anything and will offer to pay
outrageous amounts for a shunt drive but will double cross
the party as soon as they get their habds on the piece.
:ag:fa
 
p    Workers   required  for  Uorm   shearing   season.   No
     experience  necessary but must be willing to work  long
     hours.  Required for next 2 months.  Apply Ivora Ranch,
     care of Taleoo Supplies, Einar Expressway.
 
Ivora ranch lays some 200km distant in the midst of the vast
grasslands.  The hours are 0500 - 2300, but the pay is good,
Cr150 a week + Cr10 * 2D bonus at the end.  Ivora ranch will
pick  workers up on its weekly ration run  into  town.  Good
workers  may  be  able  to stay on  for  longer  as  general
ranchhands at Cr100 a week.
 
:mi:nv:sc
 
p    Security   Guards  required  for  6   month   contract,
     extendable.  Blata Security will offer basic fire  arms
     training  but  Gun-1 or  better  preferred.  Applicants
     should have clean records and be presentable.  Cr100  a
     week. Call stu @ rer.bla.pax.
 
The job entails doing routine guard duty at the local  base.
Personnel alternate between gate and corridor/desk duty, and
work  a 3 way shift.  Blata are a rather shabby  outfit  and
will often cut corners.  Expect weapons to be at least 1  TL
below the local military level,  and to be charged Cr20  for
weapon training if required,  docked from first pay  packet.
And  don't worry if that record isn't perfectly  clean.  For
each week on duty roll 2D. On a 12 roll 1D for an incident:
 
     1    Your  patrol buddy pulls his gun on you whilst  he
          starts  hacking into a computer that's  been  left
          unsecured.
 
     2    On   an   indoor  patrol  you   see   two   people
          disappearing down the corridor.  The room  they've
          just  left  is the base commanders and  is  now  a
          shambles.  The  two are armed with  laser  pistols
          and  are  from  local  peace  group  looking   for
          incriminating evidence concerning bioagent tests.
 
     3    An   explosion,   and  then  another   rocks   the
          compound.  As  you go to investigate 4  Resolve  G
          Carriers scream across the boundary fence,  fusion
          guns blaring. The rebellion has arrived!
 
     4    On  gate duty you here the distant sound of  music
          and  chanting.  It  gets closer and soon  you  are
          confronted  by a huge crowd demanding to  see  the
          base  commander about the bioagent  testing  being
          carried out at Diongu Flats.  You keep your  cool,
          and  a G5 officer manage to start  reasoning  with
          them.  Suddenly there's the crack-thump of a  high
          velocity  bullet  and one of the  crowd's  leaders
          goes  down.  "Murderers!" shout the crowd as  they
          start to  charge, but  you're  sure  you  saw  the
          muzzle flash over in that high rise.......
 
     5    It  was a good party last night,  and boy are  you
          tired.  Just a few minutes kip,  no one will know.
          Unfortunately your boss turns up and your out of a
          job. And the Cr100 "fine".
 
     6    In  a bar one night you're approached by  a  woman
          who says she's seen you down at the base. She says
          she and a friend want to get into the base to  get
          some data on the biowar work being done there. She
          shows  you  a  covertly  obtained  video  of   the
          effects of the agents,  and explains the risks  to
          the local population,  especially if the base gets
          attacked.   Lucan's  Imperium  is  close,  and  an
          assault is rumoured. Do you help her.....?
          If you do you soon discover that her friend is  an
          explosives  expert  from Lucan's  Special  Forces,
          and she is Laser Carbine - 5!
 
:ri
 
p    Businesswoman   seeks  chauffer  and   personal   aide.
     Candidates  must  be smart and self  reliant  and  have
     Grav-1. Apply Angie @ rer.dada.csec
 
Hilary Ganton is the MD of Dadaquay, one of the planets main
finance houses.  The world is suffering a bit from tension s
between  rival  rebellion factions,  and there has  been  at
least  one attempt on Hilary's life so far.  What  is  being
looked for, discreetly, is a bodyguard. Pay is Cr170 a week,
and  the contract initially for 6 months.  For each week  in
employ roll 2D. On a 12 roll 1D for an incident:
 
     1    Last night you found a bomb under the Heigra  air-
          raft.  No problem,  the local EOD team defused it.
          But now there appears to be a slight problem  with
          the  grav units,  and there's a suspicous  looking
          air raft approaching fast....
 
          To land safely with failing grav units:
          Difficult,  Grav  Veh,  Dex,  10 sec (  hazardous,
                                                  fateful )
 
     2    Walking   out  of  the  corporation  building   an
          assassin opens fire....
 
          To push Hilary out of the line of fire:
          Difficult, Str, Dex, Instant ( fateful )
          Referee:  Hilary  wears a mesh jacket  which  will
          reduce any injury done to her.
 
     3    You are in a crowded shop with Hilary and her  PA,
          Angie. A shot rings out, but misses Hilary. You go
          for  your  gun,  but it's stuck  in  the  shoulder
          holster. The gunman is ready for another shot, but
          Angie has her gun out and downs him.  Your sacked,
          and  Hilary  and  Angie  go  looking  for  another
          "decoy" bodyguard.
 
     4    The shuttle has just reached orbit,  and it's a 30
          min wait till docking.  An explosion rips  through
          the ship.......
 
     5    You're flying the speeder back from a visit to  a
          distant city.  The craft's a Meterior Speeder  and
          you're  clicking up almost 1000  kph.  Then  radar
          shows two traces converging on you. Their ID's are
          local police, but a Gauss blast soon shows they're
          not  about to hand out a speeding ticket....
          Referee:   The  speeders  are  modified  Venery's,
          usually  a police vehicle,  but in this case  they
          are  in  camo  and have been upgraded  to  a  TL14
          design for use by Lucan's Special Forces. The loss
          of Hilary  would throw her company, and a sizeable
          part of the world's business, into disarray. In an
          economic coup Lucan's followers will take control,
          and so save the expense of a bloody assault.
 
     6    As  in  5,  but this time there are  no  speeders.
          Instead,  a  Hilary  snoozes,  Angie pulls  out  a
          pistol and holds it to your head and tells you  to
          fly to a new set of co-ordinates.....
          Referee:  Angie is a sleeper agent of Lucan's. She
          will  now  deliver  Hilary into  the  hands  of  a
          "Economic   Subversion  Unit"  of   the   Imperial
          Treasury.   They  will  extract  from  Hilary  the
          information  they need to stage an  economic  coup
          on the world.  Meanwhile a local tri-D station has
          received   word  that  Hilary  Ganton   has   been
          kidnapped  by  criminals,  and a  MCr1  ransom  is
          being  demanded.  And  as for an  "ex"  bodyguards
          future....

------------------------------

Bundle: 552
Archive-Message-Number: 6945
From: b.borich@genie.geis.com
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 94 14:00:00 BST
Subject: Looking for Paveway

    I'm looking for Paveway @ BSP054@BANGOR.AC.UK. Except this address
seems to exist no longer. Anyone know if he has a new address?
    (Paveway, if you see this please reply back).

------------------------------

Bundle: 552
Archive-Message-Number: 6946
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 14:37:12 EST
From: tfv0@Lehigh.EDU (Theodore F Vaida ][)
Subject: FTP access to ftp.engrg.uwo.ca

WHat happened to ftp access on ftp.engrg.uwo.ca?

I get the following response to FTP connection requests:

pl264c.cc.lehigh.edu:/home/tfv0/traveller/bundles>ftp ftp.engrg.uwo.ca
Connected to sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca.
421 Service not available, remote server has closed connection

what gives? I was planning on catching up on the last couple of years
traveler stuff over the weekend, guess not....

later
- ---------==============Sig file cover sheet=====================---------
                  ->POLAR CAPS<- or tfv0@lehigh.edu
      Pages including this page:  1
                                -----
"One must not confuse John Donne's famous quote `No man is an Island' with
 New York Telephone's `We're all connected'" - Dad
"Trust no one, and be honest with all"  _Claudius_the_God_, and Dad
   Paranoid, but it'll keep you out of trouble...
"Thats Stupid... heh heh..." - Beavis & Butthead
"He said.... p...p...p..." - Beavis & Butthead
- ---------=======================================================---------


------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 22:00:04 EST
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #553: Msgs 6947-6963 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Wed Mar 16 22:00:03 EST 1994
Reply-To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Errors-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 22:00:04 EST
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #553: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 553  6947 11-Mar-1994 john991@tampa.r  Hard Science and Planet Generation << A
 553  6948 13-Mar-1994 Erwin Fritz      Hard Science and Planet Generation << A
 553  6949 13-Mar-1994 "Alexander W. H  Computer Aides << I was wondering if an
 553  6950 14-Mar-1994 l.wiseman1@geni  <<   David Johnson
 553  6951 14-Mar-1994 AFP123@BANGOR.A  Paveway <<   Someone was looking for PA
 553  6952 14-Mar-1994 zcfbj00          Stars and Planets...(hard science + pla
 553  6953 14-Mar-1994 TML Administrat  Re: Looking for Paveway  << b.borich@ge
 553  6954 14-Mar-1994 James T Perkins  Re: FTP access to ftp.engrg.uwo.ca  << 
 553  6955 14-Mar-1994 Glenn Myers      CT, As good as I remember?a << Hi All,
 553  6956 13-Mar-1994 Erwin Fritz      Re: TML nightly: Msgs 6948-6949 V70#2 <
 553  6957 14-Mar-1994 "Michael A. Mas  Re: TML nightly: Msgs 6950-6956 V70#3 <
 553  6958 14-Mar-1994 David Johnson    Looking for 'Background' (vs. 'Rules') 
 553  6959 14-Mar-1994 Mark Cook        Re: FTP access to ftp.engrg.uwo.ca << J
 553  6960 15-Mar-1994 Jo_Grant.LOTUSI  More Backgroud for Critter Competition 
 553  6961 15-Mar-1994 Roger Sanger     Mags for sale... <<  
 553  6962 14-Mar-1994 john.bogan@asb.  BOOK 6: SCOUTS << There's nothing much 
 553  6963 15-Mar-1994 zcfbj00          Thruster Plates + G-Hours << Howdoo All

------------------------------

Bundle: 553
Archive-Message-Number: 6947
From: john991@tampa.relay.ucm.org
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 22:37:15 CST
Subject: Hard Science and Planet Generation

Arthur Green <ARTHUR@cclana.ucd.ie> asked about how a star affects planetary
life, mutation rate, etc.
 
My only suggestion (besides DGP World Builders handbook) is a BASIC program
published back in the days of Creative Computing.  You would select a main
sequence star and put in some basic info about your planet and the program
would generate min and max yearly temps, suggested climate, and suggested
lifeforms.  The program takes into account the effects of the planets moons,
axial tilt, and orbital eccentricity.  A fun program to play with.  I cannot
handle planets orbiting gas giants.  Only earthlike planets orbiting single
stars.
 
Does anyone know if this program exists in a ftp archive somewhere?  Another
good place to ask would be sci.space.
 
Worse comes to worse I could find my copy of the program (TRS-80 BASIC or
GWBASIC (I said the program was old) ) and uuencode an ascii basic version of
it.  It was basic BASIC which should run on any computer with BASIC.
 
Hope that helps :-)
 
John Bucsek          | John991@tampa.relay.ucm.org
 

------------------------------

Bundle: 553
Archive-Message-Number: 6948
From: erwin@fritz.cuug.ab.ca (Erwin Fritz)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 94 06:32:44 -0700
Subject: Hard Science and Planet Generation

At the end of Book 6 (Scouts) of the old rules, there's some rules covering
planetary temperatures, albedo, eccentricity and the like.  What's wrong with
using those rules?  I'm using them now and if there's something wrong, please
let me know.

- -- 
erwin@fritz.cuug.ab.ca

------------------------------

Bundle: 553
Archive-Message-Number: 6949
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 1994 16:49:11 -0500 (EST)
From: "Alexander W. Holt" <awh2@crux4.cit.cornell.edu>
Reply-To: "Alexander W. Holt" <awh2@crux4.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject: Computer Aides


I was wondering if anyone has purchased the Traveller software by Planet 
III Software as advertised in Challenge 70, and if so did they like it?  
Or how does it compare to the software public available?  Thanks

						Alex


------------------------------

Bundle: 553
Archive-Message-Number: 6950
From: l.wiseman1@genie.geis.com
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 94 01:59:00 BST
Subject: 

  David Johnson
 
  > do we ever find our who Avery is?
 
  Not yet...ultimately.
 
  ------------------------------
 
  Grant Sinclair
 
  > Have GDW ever shown support for micro jumps, incidentally?
  > If not in Brilliant Lances, maybe Loren could give a ruling.
 
  They're allowed, but we don't go into them in BL.
 
  ------------------------------
 
  Joni M Virolainen
 
  >I would like to know how the jump drive works officially.
 
  Dave says jump drives run constantly while in jump space
 
  > Have you ever thought what happens to the planet which joins
  > to RC?
 
  Path of Tears, the Star Viking Sourcebook (just released) deals
  with this question, among others.
 
  ------------------------------
 
  Roger Sanger
 
  Re: Traveller's Wish List
  > Any comments?
 
  The main difficulty with doing comprehensive indices or
  bibliographies or consolidations of deckplans/equipment/etc. is
  that they are obsolete almost as soon as they printed (unless we
  publish them and then never print anything else).
 
  > P.S.:  They don't have anything on the above list available
  > do they?
 
  Nope. I'm looking at indexing TNE for in-office use (and if I
  ever do it I'll put it in Challenge), but there never seems to be
  any time for projects such as this...always something more
  important staring me in the face.
 
   ------------------------------
 
  Peter B. Juzyk:
 
  Edjs et al. seem to have dealt with your VRFGG/sandcaster
  problems.
 
  ------------------------------
 
  Jason D. Smith
  jasons@atlas.com
 
  > Anyone have the most up-to-date "canonical" list of errata
  > for TNE?
 
  Email me your address, and I'll send you what we have
 
   ------------------------------
 
  bertil
 
  > anyone know the proper time periods for the various
  > hierarchical levels from kingdom to species?
 
  Its pretty much anybody's guess. There are numerous hypotheses,
  but little hard data.
 
  ------------------------------
 
  Mark Urbin  eclipse@world.std.com
 
  Re: FF&S II
 
  > What is the offical word on addressing these topics?
 
  We will address these topics in future publications, but we
  haven't decided exactly when or where.
 
  >  Is GDW still planning on releasing a"FF&S II"?
 
  Yes, but we haven't decided exactly when.
 
  > Challange Mag is a good forum for this.
 
  We think so too.
 
  ------------------------------
 
  Dane Johnson  <djohnson@willamette.edu>
 
 > I personally missed Robot rules more (especially considering
 > they decided to include Bionics).
 
  Robots would have dominated the space available in FF&S, and
  would have crowded out several other things. Right now, the plan
  is to cover robots in the same book in which we deal with Virus.
 
  > Consider the lowly Bwap.  <Grump, grump>
 
  You are the first person I know of who wants to know more abut
  the Bwaps. I'll look at doing something on them for the aliens
  book we have upcoming.
 
  ------------------------------
 
  Constantine Thomas <zcfbj00@ucl.ac.uk>
  > Anyone know what Maintenance Points are?!
 
    and
 
  Mark Urbin, re:starship miniatures
 
  James Kundert  has handled your questions already, it would
  seem, and I have nothing to add.
 
  ------------------------------
 
  James Kundert
   <james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>
 
  > With Loren back in the arena, we may see the Newts again.
  > Here's hoping.
 
   Jeez, that's two people who want Bwaps...what was it about the
   little mud-puppies that you guys found so interesting? I want to
   try to put that in the next alien I create... : )
 
 
  Loren Wiseman
         for GDW,Inc.
 
 

------------------------------

Bundle: 553
Archive-Message-Number: 6951
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 94 9:25 GMT
From: AFP123@BANGOR.AC.UK
Subject: Paveway


 	Someone was looking for PAVEWAY the other day (Sorry forgot to
copy down the e-mail address). I have the honour of sharing a house
with that worthy, so any messages can be mailed to me and I shall 
pass them on (E-mail AFP123@BANGOR.AC.UK). 

	Hope this is of some help.

		Stewart Johnson.

------------------------------

Bundle: 553
Archive-Message-Number: 6952
From: zcfbj00 <zcfbj00@ucl.ac.uk>
Subject: Stars and Planets...(hard science + planet building)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 94 14:06:22 +0000


Someone wrote a while back about Stars and how they affect life on their
planets. Here's my 0.02 800-pound chariot wheels on the subject...
Hotter stars emit more harmful radiation than cooler stars - this means 
that life on planets orbiting Type F stars (and G0 and G1 V stars) would
either mutate more quickly (assuming their planet's ozone layer was about
as thick as ours), or there would have to be a thicker ozone layer over
the planet. Presumably, type K and M stars would emit much less UV 
radiation (being redder), so ozone layers wouldn't have to be quite as thick.

Potted guide to planetary systems (a la Hard Science)...

The more massive the star, the more short-wavelength radiation it emits (ie.
UV - although there's not that many stars that are hot enough to emit 
X-rays!). However, the more massive the star, the shorter it lives - it burns
up its fuel much faster. From what I can gather, a Type O0 V star will have
a total lifespan, from birth to death as a black hole, of less than 1 million
years!. On the other hand, the lowest mass stars (ie. M9 V's and VI's) will
stay as Type V's for well over 60,000 BILLION years. This is far greater than
the age of the Universe (about 15 billion years), which means that any Type M
stars born 15 billion years ago (at the start of star formation in the 
Universe) would still be in their infancy.

The age and lifespan of the star makes a big difference to the formation of
planets around it. High mass stars (Type O and B) burn their fuel so rapidly
that they destroy themselves as Supernovae well before any planets even have
a chance to form in the dust clouds that surround them, so no planets will be
present around these stars (apart from the odd captured planet). Certainly,
no life can exist around these stars (if only due to the torrent of UV
radiation emanating from these stars) - no ozone layer could shield a planet
in this situation.	
	Type A stars are more moderate than their larger cousins. They can 
exist for timescales of a few million years, while late Type A stars (A5 V +)
break through the one billion year barrier. These stars probably have planets
in tow, there being enough time for them to coalesce around their stars.
However, these worlds probably won't have any life. Life on Earth has taken
about 3.8 billion years to reach the level it has today - advanced multi-
cellular lifeforms first appeared about 700 million years ago at the 
earliest. Assuming this is the case for all potentially life-bearing
worlds, the planet (and oceans) would have to exist for at least 3 billion
years to evolve multi-cellular life, while single-celled organisms and amino
acids could start to form around 800 million - 1 billion years after the
planet formed. So, the earliest Type A stars (ie. A0V to A5V) won't have life
(probably) while the later ones (say, A7V - A9V) will probably have simple
single-celled organisms, assuming oceans are present on the planet. However,
these organisms will not have time to evolve into higher organisms because
their Primary star will turn enter its Subgiant and Giant phases only a 
billion years after its formation, killing off all life on the planet.
	Type F and G stars are those most likely to possess highly evolved
life, having a long enough lifespan and emitting bearable amounts of radiation.
I think that F8 V stars are the first to have main Sequence Lifespans longer
than 4 billion years, which means that life may have evolved to current (Terran)
levels by the end of the star's useful lifetime. Type F stars emit more UV than
our own Sun, which is a Type G2 V star. The Sun has a total lifespan of about
10 billion years, and we're about halfway through. It has existed for 4.6 
billion years or so.
	Stars less massive than Sol (the Sun) have a longer lifespan - they 
also emit less radiation. As a result of their longer lifespan, some examples
of these stars were born early in the history of the Universe. There are two
types of star - Population I and Population II. The earliest known stars
are Population I, and most of these are Type K and M V stars. These are
'first-generation' stars, and as such are composed entirely of Hydrogen
and Helium, with very little heavy elements. This is because they formed
before any massive stars had exploded as supernovae, releasing heavy elements
into the interstellar medium. (Actually, the more I think about it, the more
I think that Population I stars are actually Subdwarfs (type VI), since these
stars are also metal-poor). The net result is that if the stars are composed
of Hydrogen and Helium, then so too should their planets. As a result, all the
planets of these stars would probably be Gas Giants, with very few solid bodies
in the system, since no rock or metal is around for them to form.
	Population II stars are those stars that formed in a metal-rich 
intersellar environment, such as the one present today. These include all stars
that have formed in the past 10 - 12 billion years. Since low-mass stars can
form in this time period (not all had to form in the earliest days of the Unive se), then there are plently of Type K and M stars out there with rocky 
planets around them.
	Type K stars are probably the borderline for habitable planets. Type M
stars are just too dim to generate enough heat to warm planets at distances
beyond 0.2 AU. HOwever, it is interesting to note that during their Subgiant
phase (type IV), Type M stars spend a total of about 4 - 5 billion years. In
this stage, they can warm planets for long enough to allow life to form. THe
only problem is that no Type M star (not even one born 10 billion years ago)
will turn into a Subgiant for another 50 billion years!!!!
	OK, that's it. Any comments, opinions etc are welcome. Hope it helped.
		TTFN, Constantine

------------------------------

Bundle: 553
Archive-Message-Number: 6953
Subject: Re: Looking for Paveway 
Reply-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Administrator)
From: TML Administrator <traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca>
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 94 08:32:07 PST


b.borich@genie.geis.com writes:
>     I'm looking for Paveway @ BSP054@BANGOR.AC.UK. Except this address
> seems to exist no longer. Anyone know if he has a new address?
>     (Paveway, if you see this please reply back).

He asked me to delist him from TML, because his "address was going
down". I delisted him on Jan 5, 1994, and haven't heard from him since.

James

__   __/         /   /	    Internet Traveller Mailing List, Administrator
    /     /  /  /   /	   James T. Perkins in Eugene, Oregon, USA
 __/   __/__/__/ _____/   traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca

------------------------------

Bundle: 553
Archive-Message-Number: 6954
Subject: Re: FTP access to ftp.engrg.uwo.ca 
Reply-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Administrator)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 94 08:33:15 PST
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@sp-eug.com>


tfv0@Lehigh.EDU (Theodore F Vaida ][) writes:
> WHat happened to ftp access on ftp.engrg.uwo.ca?

I confirm that it is down.  I've mailed Dan Corrin (site admin) and
he'll let me (and TML) know when it's working again.

Thanks!

James

__   __/         /   /	    Internet Traveller Mailing List, Administrator
    /     /  /  /   /	   James T. Perkins in Eugene, Oregon, USA
 __/   __/__/__/ _____/   traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca

------------------------------

Bundle: 553
Archive-Message-Number: 6955
From: Glenn Myers <gem188@swanson.com>
Subject: CT, As good as I remember?a
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 94 16:52:19 EST



Hi All,

I recently received the CT items that I ordered from GDW from Loren's
TML post. I think that this is a great way to find out what GDW has in
stock without harrassing them regularly. BTW, reading through some 
new (to me) CT materials has cleared up something I've wondered about.

I was 16 in 1983 when I bought the majority of the GDW traveller 
product line. Since then I've always felt that those materials were
superior to anything put out since. There was a feeling of optimistic
adventure to those supplements, rulebooks, and adventures. I always
attributed this feeling to the fact that I was 16 when I refereed 
those materials. But, 10 years later I find that the feeling is still
the same. 

I guess maybe I wasn't just a silly teenager to have loved this stuff.
Or, maybe it's just that now I'm a silly adult.
 
Anyway....

I'd like to recreate that environment in TNE. I noticed vanya's post 
recently concerning boosting starship G-turn endurance by cutting 
the reaction mass by a factor of 10. I've tried this, and it does help.
Now, I'd like to reduce the overhead in crew requirements back to 
previrus conditions. Maybe then a tramp freighter will be able to 
earn a living in this universe again.

TTFN

Glenn


- ----------------------------------
| Glenn E. Myers                 |
| gmyers@swanson.com             |
| QA software engineer           |
| Swanson Analysis Systems, Inc. |
| (412) 746-3304 x188            |
- ----------------------------------


------------------------------

Bundle: 553
Archive-Message-Number: 6956
From: erwin@fritz.cuug.ab.ca (Erwin Fritz)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 94 22:18:38 -0700
Subject: Re: TML nightly: Msgs 6948-6949 V70#2

Alexander Holt writes:

>I was wondering if anyone has purchased the Traveller software by Planet 
>III Software as advertised in Challenge 70, and if so did they like it?  
>Or how does it compare to the software public available?  Thanks

I didn't know there was software to help ease some of the tedious part of
Traveller.  I assume it helps with world generation, character generation
and other lengthy tasks.  Can anyone tell me more about it?  

- -- 
erwin@fritz.cuug.ab.ca

------------------------------

Bundle: 553
Archive-Message-Number: 6957
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 22:04:45 -0500 (EST)
From: "Michael A. Masten" <deadlock@hopi.dtcc.edu>
Subject: Re: TML nightly: Msgs 6950-6956 V70#3

I have a question about the Virus that keeps getting mentioned in TNE.
What is it and where did it come from?

I an ex-CT player and was thinking about buying T:TNE.

Murphy's Law:   Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong.
Deadlock's Rule:  If anything goes wrong, remove all evidence of your
		  involvement and blame someone else.
deadlock@hopi.dtcc.edu


------------------------------

Bundle: 553
Archive-Message-Number: 6958
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 94 22:09:06 CST
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: Looking for 'Background' (vs. 'Rules') Devotees

Gentlesophonts:

Are there any folks out there who are more interested in campaign
background rather than rules and such?  TML discussions of late seem to
be overwhelmed with questions and debates over what are, IMHO, minutia.
Here's a sampling of messages since the beginning of March:

Msgs           'Rules' Msgs    'Background' Msgs   Other Msgs
6892-6895            1                 2                1
6896-6899            1                 0                3
6900-6908            4                 2                3
6909-6917            5                 0                4
6918-6923            4                 0                2
6924-6926            2                 0                1
6927-6932            2                 0                4
6933-6935            2                 0                1
6936-6939            3                 0                1
6940-6946            3                 1                3
6947-6947            1                 0                0
6948-6949            1                 0                1
6950-6956            2                 0                5

     Totals         30                 5               29

(`Other Msgs' includes msgs about the TML, Traveller products, and
other games like 2300AD.)

I've never been one to be too concerned with details of the rules.
(I just hold to the First Rule of Role Playing:  If the Rules Don't
Work the Way You'd Like - Change Them - It's Just a Game.).  I'm more
concerned with the `Big Picture'.  Is there anyone else who thinks
discussions about weapon penetration, craft design, and planetary
science is a little moot in a two-dimensional universe?

(I'm not trying to hassle you `rules junkies' - I'm just looking for
some like-minded-souls of my own.)

In an effort to start a `Background' discussion, here's a question:  What
is there to recommend TNE (vs. MT or CT) from a `background' point of
view?  Forget the new rules and such, is the new campaign an improvement
over the ante-Rebellion, Rebellion and Hard Times eras?  (For the sake 
of discussion let's ignore the hard, cold reality that TNE is the only
campaign being supported officially.)

Cordially,

David Johnson

------------------------------

Bundle: 553
Archive-Message-Number: 6959
From: Mark Cook <markc@CSOS.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: FTP access to ftp.engrg.uwo.ca
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 21:31:40 -0800 (PST)

James T Perkins <jamesp@sp-eug.com> writes:
> 
> tfv0@Lehigh.EDU (Theodore F Vaida ][) writes:
> > WHat happened to ftp access on ftp.engrg.uwo.ca?
> 
> I confirm that it is down.  I've mailed Dan Corrin (site admin) and
> he'll let me (and TML) know when it's working again.

Not to contradict our beloved TML admin, but I've been on and off
Sunbane, Prism, and Nova many times over the last week, including
an ftp to Sunbane just minutes ago, and it works just fine.  Maybe
it has something to to with the path from Sunbane to you folks,
rather than a problem on the Sunbane end.  Or...

 ...maybe you should switch brands of coffee. :^)

BTW, I haven't heard from Dan Corrin for a *loooong* time.  I sent
him some mail over a month ago and *still* have received a reply.

Later,
	- Mark "I've been fired from better companies than *this*!" Cook

mark f. cook * 2055 sw whiteside dr. * corvallis, or * markc@csos.orst.edu
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
"When your enemy falls, don't rejoice -- but don't pick him up either."
                                             - Yiddish proverb

------------------------------

Bundle: 553
Archive-Message-Number: 6960
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 03:34:26 EST
From: Jo_Grant.LOTUSINT.LOTUS@CRD.lotus.com
Subject: More Backgroud for Critter Competition

Yo,
	Some time ago I posted some data on the Serabi "Critter Competition"
where several virtual reality worlds were joined together in one arcade
game on Serabi space station. This further developed into a plot outline
that involved genitically engineering Aliens.
	As a furtherance of that here is a A/V script for a proposal to
do such. People might find it interesting if they are pursuing that idea
or if they just want to frighten their players...
	[If someone wants the original AmiPro document let me know and I'll
post it to them.]

ALIEN GENERATION
Waidslaw Orona, Ph.D
Dr. Neil Hart


Note: This script/compgen AV recording is/are classified commercial military 
document(s) and require a clearance of A-1/a for reading/viewing. Penalties for 
illegal use of this/these document(s) may include Full Brain Reconstruction 
and/or a fine of up to 100000Cr and/or imprisonment in a Federated Penal Colony 
for up to twenty-five years,


FADE IN:


CROWDED ARCADE
Long lines of people queue and lights play over colourful posters of 
RealVision's latest Bughunt on Rlyeh game. Excited players emerge and make 
graphic gestures. Shops sell paraphaneila.


V.O.
Few people have missed the excitement generated by the recent RealVision game 
released by Red Wizard. In the simulated environment of the arcade players were 
armed with predictions of where current trends in current military hardware are 
tending.


CUT TO:


PAN OVER a COMPUTER SIM of platoon of troops wearing battle dress and hand-held 
fusion guns fashioned with the imperial starburst.


V.O. (CONT)
Even with such hardware no group of players were found that were a match for 
the aliens. 


CAMERA FOLLOWS the paltoon and we see them being cut to bits by aliens.


V.O. (CONT)
In keeping with Red Wizard's True-To-Life garuntee the game was assured to 
strictly adhere to the defined RealVision standards of simulation. So how was 
such a devestatingly powerful creation discovered?


CUT TO:


COMPUTER LINE DRAWING of the previous fight scene. After the scene is played 
through it freezes on the alien which then changes slightly.


V.O. (CONT)
In every dynamic system there exists maximum points. Points of possibility 
where the parameters give ideal results for the desired result. Through 
infinate regression tests and self correcting simulations the idea parameters 
for a creature of destruction within the RealVision simulated environment was 
found.

FREEZE FRAME on final alien.

FADE TO

poster of Alien in the same pose with some players frozen in animated 
converstation before it.


V.O.
The same techniques used for this game monster are not solely applicable within 
the realm of Virtual Reality. Within the operation of our reality and through 
the medium of genetic codes the same regression tests have produced similar 
results.


FADE TO BLACK. MUSIC PLAYS.

COMPUTER GEN PIX: Deep space, a b.g. of stars. Centered is AN ALIEN, sideview, 
curled into a fetallike ball. 


V.O.
Humans suffer from self-centered notions as to the nature of life.


The Alien slowly uncurls. MUSICAL STING.


V.O. (CONT.)
Humans assume that alien life forms should conform to standards that match 
their own, including logic and mortlity.


The Alien is uncurled in its full glory now. Slowly it rotates to face the 
camera. MUSIC CONTINUES OVER.


V.O. (CONT.)
Even among humans, mortality is ignored when expedient. Why should we expect 
more from an alien life form than we demand from ourselves?


The Alien stretches out its arms and legs and tail so that it becomes a parody 
of the man's-reach-should-equal-his-height illustration by Da Vinci. PUSH IN 
SLOWLY. The Alien expands to fill the screen.


V.O. (CONT)
If we know nothing else, we must know this about aliens: First, they will not 
be like us. Secondly, truly understanding them will be almost imposible.


THE ALIEN fills the screen; DIAL DOWN MUSIC and PUSH THROUGH TO BLACK.


CUT TO:


EXT. ALIEN WORLD -- DAY -- ESTABLISHING


Here is a bleak, rocky planet. Very little greenery, vast stretches of nothing.


V.O.
From the dense exoskeleton of the alien and its demonstrated adaptbility, we 
can see that it is at home even on a planet that is a harsh, desolate place.


CUT TO:


EXT. HIVE


This is a ridged, antlike mound rearing up from the cleared area around it, a 
thing composed of alien spittle, laced with local plants and the exoskeletons 
of alien prey.


V.O.
We know from simulation that the aliens have a queen-based hierarchy and that 
they form hives to protect their eggs and young hatchlings.


INT. HIVE -- EGG CHAMBER


The giant QUEEN, monstrous egg sac attached to her rear, depositis eggs on the 
floor of the chamber.


V.O.
At the proper time, drone workers provide host bodies for the newborns.


TIME CUT TO:


INT. EGG ROOM


A GROUP OF PREY BEASTS held in place by WORKER ALIENS are attached by 
HATCHLINGS IN THEIR LARVAL FORM. (These are hand-shaped lumps with fingers and 
tails, the latter of which wrap around the prey beasts' necks to secure them as 
the ovipositors are extruded and inserted down the prey's throats. See 
comp-image #3 for stock footage.)


V.O.
The parasitical breeding process is offensive to some in the military community 
but completely natural for aliens living in a harsh environment.


CUT TO:


PREY BEAST


Its bellly bulges from within. It screams, but silently, (MOS).


V.O.
Birth of the next stage is violent and fatal for the host.


C.U. -- PREY'S BELLO


The skin bursts, tissue spews, and A BABY ALIEN, looking like a fat snake with 
sharp teeth, emerges.


V.O. (CONT.)
The young alien chews its way forth, where there may be a battle for dominance 
with other newly born aliens.


A GROUP OF BABY ALIENS


rip and tear at each other.


CUT TO:


EXT. G-CARRIER


The carrier lifdts from the planet's surface.


V.O.
Humans rely on technology to the point where they beleive it has made them 
invincible. When dealing ith creatures who have been adapted to extremely 
hostile evironments, such a belief can also prove dangerous.


CLOSER -- ON THE CARRIER


Clutching a strut on the carrier's underside is AN ALIEN.


V.O. (CONT)
Because an unsuited human cannot survive in the vacuum of space does not mean 
that some other complex life form cannot.


INT. PATROL CRUISER -- CARGO BAY -- HIGH ANGLE


Across the bay walk TWO TROOPS.


POLL BACK TO OTS (OVER-THE-SHOULDER) -- ALIEN


It watches the troops. Drool drips from its lethal jaws.
ALIENS'S POV -- THE TROOPS


It moves in. They react in horror as it attacks. BLOOK SPLASHES, blanking the 
VP.


CUT TO:


INT. AIRLOCK


The hatch opens and the Alien is ejected by the outward blast of atmosphere. 
TRACK WITH IT as it flies into space, turning slowly.


V.O.
From the simulations we can deduce that they have simple imperitives that 
control their lives. They kill, they breed, and they survive.


THE ALIEN


floats int he vacuum. It should be dead by human stantards, but it slowly curls 
intoa fetal ball, tail wrapped around the massive claw-hammer head and spiky 
body.


V.O.
Properly utailised, such aliens would make excellent warriors. Research into 
the synthesis of their composition could yield advances in armour, chemical and 
biological weapons, and perhaps even new ways to induce suspended animation for 
frozen watch troops.


PULL BACK -- THE ALIEN


Dwindles into a tiny dot, then vanishes altogether into the cold blackness.


End of script/AV extract. Readers/viewers are once again warned that the 
unauthorised use of this material may result in severe penalties, per MILCOM 
stat. reg. 3425444-A, Revision II.

------------------------------

Bundle: 553
Archive-Message-Number: 6961
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 01:55:39 -0800
From: rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger)
Subject: Mags for sale...

 
 
Dear Everyone:
 
I have a spare of each of the following magazine issues from
Digest Group Publications (TD = Traveller's Digest,
MTJ = MegaTraveller Journal).  I've listed some of the articles
and topics contained within each magazine:
 
TD # 6         ["The Most Valuable Prey" (mystery), Persons
                and unpersons, Lushun Sector Library Data]
 
TD # 7         ["The Fourth Imperium" (Dynam/Masionia/Lishun),
                Lishun Sector Library Data, Starships in Mothballs]
 
TD # 9         [Capital, Imperial Palace, Emperor Strephon,
                the Imperial Guard, the Imperial Nobility,
                an Interview with the Emperor]
 
TD #10          [Map of Capital, Reference/Cadion/Core,
                 Uakye/Regina/Spinward Marches, Holorecorders]
 
TD #11          [The Geonee (a TL16 minor human race),
                 Shiwonee - Geonee Homeworld, TL9-12 Medicine]
 
TD #12          [Prosthetics, Bionics, Regrowth and Cloning;
                 The Brinn (an alien, human-hating race)]
 
TD #14          [Ghostship - Aki/Glisten/Spinward Marches,
                 Ptolemy/Jardin/Solomani Rim, Starmercs,
                 Scout Brew (rules on the effects of drinking)]
 
TD #15          [Glisten/Glisten/Spinward Marches, Radiation]
 
TD #16          [Library Data of Reaver's Deep, Research,
                 Pilgra/Arar/Massilia, System Rescue Facilities]
 
TD #17          ["The Blade of Koiyekh" (by William H. Keith Jr),
                 Library Data - Dark Nebula, Mental Health]
 
TD #18          [Concise History of the Third Imperium,
                 "Clan and Pride" (adventure), Ealiyasiyw Sector,
                 Corridor Sector, Spicing up Brawling]
 
TD #19          [Deneb Sector (map, survey data, library data),
                 Riftspan Reaches (map, library data)]
 
TD #20          ["An Act of Conscience", Trojan Reach Sector
                 and Reft Sector (maps, survey data, library data)]
 
TD #21          ["One Last Stop" (Pixie/Regina/Spinward Marches),
                 Suspended Animation, The Pirates of Tetrini]
 
MTJ #2          ["Defying the Wolf" (Deneb), Starship Combat
                 Example, 400-ton Fiery Class Gunned Escort]
 
MTJ #3          [Domain of Deneb Sector Data,
                 Vincennes/Vincennes/Deneb (TL16),
                 Megacorporations in the Rebellion Era,
                 "Rapid Repo" (Depot/Strand/Corridor)]
 
Let me know if you see any that you are interested in.
 
            Sincerely,
            Roger Sanger
 

------------------------------

Bundle: 553
Archive-Message-Number: 6962
From: john.bogan@asb.com
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 94 23:03:38 
Subject: BOOK 6: SCOUTS


There's nothing much wrong with the information in the Souts book.

the main reason why some things were changed in World Builders' Handbook
was to make it _easier_ for world builders.

If, for instance, you want to calculate a world's albedo, Book 6 lets
you do it.  WBH gives you a table, in case you DON'T want to HAVE
to calculate it.

Just be very careful if you use BOTH books.  Sometimes the WBH formulas
were simplified for ease of use.  The formulas in Book 6 are more complicated,
but more accurate (and more flexible, which from a GM's perspective
is _really_ the important point).


John H Bogan

------------------------------

Bundle: 553
Archive-Message-Number: 6963
From: zcfbj00 <zcfbj00@ucl.ac.uk>
Subject: Thruster Plates + G-Hours
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 11:46:59 +0000


Howdoo All!
	Yet another questionette for you all. I notice that Thruster Plates
do not require fuel (directly) to operate - they just burn up power plant
fuel when they draw their operating power. Since they don't themselves
burn any fuel like HEPlaR does, then does this mean that the concept of
G-Hours goes out of the proverbial window for Thruster Plates?
	I did a bit of calculating, and found that at TL 12, Fusion Power
plants use 0.15 kl of fuel per year (actually, I wonder if this is the
fuel consumption per kl of power plant, and not for the plant as a whole).
If say, the Thrusters required 187.5 MW of power to run, then this means
that they require (187.5 / 0.15 =) 28.125 kl of LHyd fuel to operate for 
one whole YEAR!! So, effectively, one G-hour of fuel in this case works out
to be 0.00107 kl of fuel per hour of continuous operation. This seems to
indicate that you don't need to carry around much fuel to use your 
thruster plates, and if the fuel tankage is large enough, you'd only need
to refuel your maneuver drive once per year at most!! Thus, you have an
effectively infinite number of G-hours of fuel.
	Does this make sense to people, or am I barking up the wrong tree
completely here?! If I am right, then what does this do to the G-Hour
concept, which seems to be rather important in Space Travel as it stands in
TNE and FF&S? 
	Opinions, comments etc on a postcard please....
PS. Further to my previous (LONG!!!) post (Stars and Planets...), I forgot
to mention a rather good book called 'What If The Moon Didn't Exist?', by
Neil. F. Comins (published by Harper-Collins, price $20). This book is 
excellent for any prospective planet-builders out there, as it goes through
lots of 'What If' questions about the Earths that might have been. 
Specifically, it tells you what life would be like if: the moon didn't exist
(natch), the moon was closer to the Earth, the Sun was more massive, the 
Earth was tilted at 90 degrees, the Earth was smaller, a star went Supernova
near the Solar System, a Star passes through the Solar System, a black hole
passed through the Earth (?!), and if the ozone layer didn't exist (very
topical!!). So, if you want to know what the environment would be on planets
that you build that don't have any moons, or orbit bigger stars, or any of
the above, this is the book for you. Its very 'reader-friendly', and doesn't
throw any equations or anything like that at you. Its basically a VERY good
book.
	Also, you could do no worse that have a look through 'Astronomy'
magazine. Every now and then, somebody writes an article that exercises the
imagination (a lot of the things in the aforementioned book appeared in this
magazine first). Also, there is the occasional article about stars and the
different type thereof (James B. Kaler writes some good articles on this
subject, and has published a rather good book called 'Stars and their 
Spectra' which is good but assumes some previous astronomical knowledge. He's
also written a book called 'Stars' which is the same sort of thing, but much
simpler. Both books are very good if you want more info on Stellar 
Evolution).
	I hope that's helped anyone who's interested in some background
reading, or just plain interested in astronomy.
		TTFN, Constantine

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 22:00:04 EST
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #554: Msgs 6964-6979 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Wed Mar 16 22:00:03 EST 1994
Reply-To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Errors-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 22:00:04 EST
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #554: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 554  6964 15-Mar-1994 Dave Kennard     FTL ships boat (repost?) << I can't rem
 554  6965 15-Mar-1994 b.borich@genie.  Looking for Wildstar <<     Thanks for 
 554  6966 15-Mar-1994 Eric Neilsen x8  Stars & Planets  << One minor point abo
 554  6967 15-Mar-1994 TML Administrat  Looking for Mr. Wildstar << Try: wildst
 554  6968 15-Mar-1994 Mark Urbin       GDW update <<   Thanks for the update, 
 554  6969 15-Mar-1994 George Herbert   Re: GDW comments << Loren, the Bwap had
 554  6970 16-Mar-1994 Rupert G. Goldi  TNE first impressions <<  Well I the bo
 554  6971 15-Mar-1994 Dane Johnson     Aslan & Vargr & Bwaps, Oh, My... << In 
 554  6972 16-Mar-1994 b.woods6@genie.  Re: Looking for 'Background' ( <<  
 554  6973 15-Mar-1994 James Kundert    Re: Background << djohnson@geds01.jsc.n
 554  6974 16-Mar-1994 Edward Swatsche  re: Thruster Plates + G-Hours << zcfbj0
 554  6975 16-Mar-1994 Roger Sanger     Roleplaying, adventuring, gaming. <<  
 554  6976 16-Mar-1994 tom@csvax1.ucc.  Re: TNE Background (and rules postings)
 554  6977 16-Mar-1994 Lionheart \|/    Re: TML nightly: Msgs 6957-6968 V70#4  
 554  6978 16-Mar-1994 Lionheart \|/    G-Hours, Thrusters and SpaceMines << GH
 554  6979 16-Mar-1994 b.borich@genie.  Paintgun info <<     I have somebody wh

------------------------------

Bundle: 554
Archive-Message-Number: 6964
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 09:20:44 -0500
From: d_kennard@unhn.unh.edu (Dave Kennard)
Subject: FTL ships boat (repost?)

I can't remember if I posted this or not. I'm sorry if you've already
seen it.

- ----------------
A ship's boat, with FTL capability. MCr 23.2151

30 ton (420 m^3) streamlined cylinder	(empty weight: 225.746t)

hull plating:		 4.455 m^3	66.825t		MCr 0.0988
	(1.5 cm bonded super-dense, giving AV 42)
internal structure:	 0.424 m^3	6.364t		MCr 0.0188

TL13 fusion power plant	26.0 m^3	78t		MCr 5.2
	(78 MW capacity)
	(approximately 5 MW excess)

CG lifters		 9 m^3		6t		MCr 0.9		3 MW
4G Heplar Maneuver	 6 m^3		6t		MCr 0.06	60 MW
	(consumes 1.875 m^3 fuel per gturn, and uses 15 MW/g)

Jump/2			12.6 m^3	37.8t		MCr 3.78
	(consumes 31.5 m^3 fuel per parsec)

fuel tankage		171 m^3		(11.97t)
	(4 parsecs plus 24 gturns, or equivalent combination)
	(no scoops or purification)

extended life support	 3.36 m^3	3.36t		MCr 0.21	.084 MW
3 small staterooms	84 m^3		6t		MCr 0.12	.0015 MW
airlock			 3 m^3		.2t		MCr 0.005	.001 MW
artificial grav (3G)	 4.2 m^3	8.4t		MCr 0.21	2.1 MW
cargo (small hatch)	15 m^3				MCr 0.012

3x workstations		21 m^3		.6t		MCr 0.006
holo-link controls	 0.42 m^3	.42t		MCr 0.06	.03 MW
2x TL14 st computers	16 m^3		3.2t		MCr 10		1 MW
TL10+ avionics		 0.001 m^3	.001t		MCr 0.025	.1 MW
TL14 NOE avionics	 0.05 m^3	.02t		MCr 0.016	.02 MW
TL14 nav aids		 0.001 m^3	.001t		MCr 0.0025	.01 MW
30,000 km radio		 0.01 m^3	.02t		MCr 0.03	1 MW
3,000 km maser		 0.06 m^3	.12t		MCr 0.056	.3 MW
30,000 km passive EMS	 0.215 m^3	.415t		MCr 0.4		.02 MW
3,000 km active EMS	 1 m^3		2t		MCr 2		5 MW

turret socket		42 m^3				MCr 0.005
	(if nothing is installed, this space is usually used for cargo)

notes: 

This is basically a TL14 craft, but I used a TL13 power plant for
maintenance reasons, since it was just as good for the purpose. The TL15
equivalent power plant is 13 m^3, 26t, and MCr2.6 so is definitely
worthwhile, unless used where maintenance of TL15 will be a problem.

The TL15 version of this craft costs approximately the same (if
available), but the power plant, the computers and other electronics are
smaller, so it has an additional 15 m^3 or so of space available for
cargo or other use (fuel purification machinery for example). Also, at
TL15 the control points are sufficient that an electronics crewman is
unnecessary.

This design is intended to be launch-bay interchangeable with the 
standard ship's boat. (The standard ship's boat is considerably heavier,
due primarily to its TL12 power plant.)

It's fairly common to run this with two crew. It's also fairly common
for double occupancy staterooms, so up to six (including crew) can travel.

Higher jump capability actually works out to about the same overall
space, due to increased fuel efficency. for a jump/4 version the jump
drive becomes 21 m^3. Reducing the fuel capacity to 150 m^3 still allows
four parsecs of jump plus 24 gturns, plus we've gained 12.6 m^3 of space.

Summary of TL15 version: jump/4, fuel scoops & purification, slight
increase in cargo space, increased flexibility in crewing.


Enjoy,

Dave Kennard
dave@unh.edu

p.s. I'm open to suggestions for good names for this "class" of vessel.

p.p.s. Also, I'd like to know if you see something I've done something
wrong in the design.

------------------------------

Bundle: 554
Archive-Message-Number: 6965
From: b.borich@genie.geis.com
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 14:18:00 BST
Subject: Looking for Wildstar

    Thanks for the info on Paveway James. Now I'm looking for Wildstar,
who's address doesn't seem to work either.....

------------------------------

Bundle: 554
Archive-Message-Number: 6966
Subject: Stars & Planets 
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 09:50:55 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Neilsen x8378 <neilsen@eta.pha.jhu.edu>

One minor point about yesterdays (generally pretty good) message on
stars and planets- you seem to have reversed Population I & Population II
stars. Population II stars are the older, metal poor ones.

If you like the hard science stuff, you're much better off with 2300AD. They
actually do a pretty nice job with the solar system creation. I still have a
few nit picks, but for the most part it's pretty realistic, at least within
what is actually known about stars and planets...
 
- -- 
*******************************************************************************
* Eric H. Neilsen, Jr.    |"Which is more useful,the Sun or the Moon?... The  *
* neilsen@eta.pha.jhu.edu |Moon is more useful, since it gives us light during*
* Bloomberg 105, x8378    |the night, when it is dark, whereas the Sun shines *
*                         |only in the daytime, when it is light anyway."     *
*                         |-fictitious philosopher created by G. Gammow       *
*******************************************************************************


------------------------------

Bundle: 554
Archive-Message-Number: 6967
Subject: Looking for Mr. Wildstar
Reply-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Administrator)
From: TML Administrator <traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca>
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 07:32:41 PST

Try: wildstar@quark.qrc.com (Guy Garnett)

James

__   __/         /   /	    Internet Traveller Mailing List, Administrator
    /     /  /  /   /	   James T. Perkins in Eugene, Oregon, USA
 __/   __/__/__/ _____/   traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca

------------------------------

Bundle: 554
Archive-Message-Number: 6968
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 17:04:11 -0500
From: mju@ftp.com (Mark Urbin)
Subject: GDW update


  Thanks for the update, Loren!  Is the Aliens book you mentioned the
`Aliens of the Rim' book listed in the upcoming product release list?
  From the way you mentioned the Newts, the contents of that book hasn't
been finalized.  I know Vargr aren't `Rim Aliens', but they are frightfully
popular (at least with Traveller folk I know).  Player Character generation
rules for the Vargr would be `A Good Thing' to have.
  As for aliens along the Rim...Hivers (and their reptilian mercs), Aslan,
and Vir...how do you spell that?  The big rhino sized pacifists from Reavers
Deep.
  Speaking of Aslan, the RC should run into Aslan Clan ships or bases on or
about the same time they contact Regency scouts.  What's the RC view on
Aslan expansion?
  
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Urbin -- ftp Software, Inc.| A rose by any other name would likely be 
North Andover, MA               | "deadly thorn-bearing assault vegetation."
These opinions are mine. - Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.  Qui annus est?
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Bundle: 554
Archive-Message-Number: 6969
Subject: Re: GDW comments
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 18:39:38 -0800
From: George Herbert <gwh@crl.com>


Loren, the Bwap had promise, they had style, they were great
for having in a campaign at the appropriate levels.  Feel free
to bring them back if you can 8-)

- -george


------------------------------

Bundle: 554
Archive-Message-Number: 6970
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 12:44:48 +1000
From: Rupert G. Goldie <rgg@aaii.oz.au>
Subject: TNE first impressions

 Well I the boxed set finally came out so I succumbed and bought it and 
Brilliant Lances. I haven't had a good look yet through the main rules book
so I can't comment on it much. Unfortunately the boxed set still had the first
printing, so I got my little upgrade booklet to go with it. Has there been any 
more errata published as I believe I found a minor error with the PAW design
in FF&S but no mention in the errata ?

 Being a design weenie from way back (Striker and High Guard were two of my 
favorite books from CT) I set out to build something from FF&S. As I hadn't seen
any PAW bays in Brilliant Lances I figured I'd design one (I'll post the designs
in a later message). I really like how we can design all sorts of weaponry now.
The minor error I mentioned is to do with damage calculation. Meson guns and 
lasers explicitly say that 1/R^2 can't be greater than one, but the PAW design
sequence doesn't. It makes sense that PAWs should be the same and the PAW 
spinal mounts in BL seem to follow that rule.

 I also played a game of BL with a couple of friends. As none of us had played
it before it was fairly slow going to start with, but even after we had got 
the hang of the rules, the damage calculation part seemed quite time consuming.
We all came to the conclusion that it would benefit greatly from computer
assistance. The critical hits are also quite brutal. We played with a 
Chrysanthemum class Destroyer Escort versus three Gazelles. The Chrysanthemum
didn't have any missiles (to simplify things) and didn't use the sandcasters
(because I forgot 8-), but was able to waste the Gazelles because the 1000Mj
PAWs were doing two critical hits if they hit hull without surface features.

 Before I finish, how could I comment on TNE without mentioning The Virus. I've
never been quite as violently opposed to The Virus as some members of this 
list ;-), but I have to admit it is _really_ depressing looking at those 
before and after subsector listings and seeing all those XXX000-0 planets that
used to be thriving societies.

Rupert
- --
Rupert G. Goldie, Research Scientist                rgg@aaii.oz.au
Australian Artificial Intelligence Institute        
/\/\|| 1 Grattan Street, Melbourne, Australia

------------------------------

Bundle: 554
Archive-Message-Number: 6971
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 20:09:23 -0800
From: Dane Johnson <dane@halcyon.com>
Subject: Aslan & Vargr & Bwaps, Oh, My...


In response to Loren's surprise at the interest in Bwaps -- Mine, at least,
was fueled not so much by the specifics of Bwaps, but the fact that they
were supposed to be commonplace in the Third Imperium and, if that's the
case, we know a pitifully small amount about them.  Ithklur are
likewise somewhat underrepresented when their frequency is considered.

Robots and certain Minor Races are underdeveloped in terms of their
described frequency in the Third Imperium culture.  This is probably
more a side effect of not having wholly developed the Third Imperium
setting in one lump.  Allowing it to evolve has in some ways made the
background flexible but has also resulted in what I'd term continuity
holes.

Although I'm interested to learn that Robots are going to be covered in
the as yet un-named supplement about the Virus, I'm also curious to know
if the supplement will permit the construction of non-Virus infected
robot systems and AIs...

Dane
djohnson@willamette.edu   dane@halcyon.edu

TNS Stringer ------ Terra/Solomani Rim (1827 G867975-8)
"My opinions are those of my fuzz-brained, cat-sniffing Norwegian Elkhound."

------------------------------

Bundle: 554
Archive-Message-Number: 6972
From: b.woods6@genie.geis.com
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 06:22:00 BST
Subject: Re: Looking for 'Background' (

 
 In Archive-Message-Number 6958, djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David
 Johnson) writes:
 >
 >Are there any folks out there who are more interested in campaign
 >background rather than rules and such?
 
     I certainly am.  I'm always looking for good ideas for scenarios.
The people I play with tend to be rather creative and inventive, so I
have to run full speed just to keep abreast of them.  ;-)
 
 >Is there anyone else who thinks discussions about weapon penetration,
 >craft design, and planetary science is a little moot in a
 >two-dimensional universe?
 
     Not necessarily.  It can be quite a bit of fun, if you're a
technology junkie like I am.  Of course, the system has quite an
influence on this, as well as the background.  Actually, the background
has an influence on every part of a game (even the rules lawyers).
 
 >...here's a question:  What is there to recommend TNE (vs. MT or CT)
 >from a 'background' point of view?
 
     Bear in mind that answers to this question will be unavoidably
subjective.
 
     In my honest opinion, there is *nothing* to recommend the New Era
background over MegaTraveller or Classic Traveller.  To my mind, the
Virus environment is a giant step backward.  Technology has *regressed*.
This is not something that I am prepared to tolerate.  I'll probably
change over to the new rules system (mostly--G-turns?  I don't think so.
Virus?  Nope--ain't going to use it.), but the Virus-ridden low-tech
background goes out the window for me.  My game is going to very
abrubtly diverge from the officially supported one.  Heck, as far as my
game goes, the Rebellion never happened, either.
 
 >Forget the new rules and such, is the new campaign an improvement
 over the ante-Rebellion, Rebellion and Hard Times eras?
 
     Well, no.  Not for me, anyway.  Technology has always been the
primary focus of my interest in Science Fiction.  The new background
severely cripples the technology that I have become accustomed to.
 
     So, I have to fix things before I can use them.  Oddly enough, the
fix requires reversing many of the changes.  I find that rather ironic.
;-)
 
- --
     Brent
 
     INTERNET:  b.woods6@genie.geis.com (preferred) and
                ioc!bwoods@attmail.com
     USNAIL:    4419 Myrtle Grove Dr.  /  Indianapolis IN  46236
     MABELL:    +1 (317) 895-8690
 

------------------------------

Bundle: 554
Archive-Message-Number: 6973
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 23:41:00 PST
From: James Kundert <james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Background

djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson) says:

 >In an effort to start a `Background' discussion, here's a question:  What
 >is there to recommend TNE (vs. MT or CT) from a `background' point of
 >view?  Forget the new rules and such, is the new campaign an improvement
 >over the ante-Rebellion, Rebellion and Hard Times eras? 

 While I admit to being a fan of TNE, my answer to this question must
be "it depends."
 The New Era has, thanks to the surviving Regency, more variety than
the previous eras.  It has old, well established civilization. It has
endless battles against a foe that nobody likes (even that foe's
relatives).  It has exploration and reclamation, salvage and new
construction.  Everywhere you look, there is an exploratory frontier
(as opposed to a political one, the only kind the previous eras knew).
 Granted, there are those Traveller players who _want_ a wide expanse
of "predictable" Imperial civilization, who want an Imperium at peace.
Depending on the scope of their games the Regency might be enough, but
probably not. I accept that.

 New Era: scrabble for basic supplies.
 Classic Era: scrabble for the next ship's payment.

 Classic Era: be shot at while breaking the law.
 New Era: be shot at while making the law.

 Classic Era: "It's two years cruising to Capital.  Who's going?"
 New Era: "This ain't the King Richard, boy, and that ain't a
    Customs cruiser.  Shoot the Vampire before it shoots you."

 Classic Era: "Time for annual maintenance. Where's the nearest A-port?"
 New Era: "Captain, we only made that jump because the coils like me.
    Unless you want to depend on that friendship, you'll find us a
    junkyard or a wreck I can plunder for new coils."

 Classic Era: "Hmm. The Second Survey must have missed these guys, but
    they sure look intelligent, don't they?"
 New Era: "Everything the old records say is suspect, and we can only
    verify the stellar type..."

 Classic Era: adventurers' lives are a lesson in bad Karma.
 New Era: Live fast, kill Virus, make history. Screw Karma.

 Ahem.

  One of the biggest complaints about the Rebellion period was that it
quickly became "the largest spectator event in history".  By comparison,
Classic Traveller was going nowhere, doing nothing.  An ambitious
referee could chart his own major events for two reasons: the developed
parts of the Imperium were its frontiers, not the important stuff
around Capital; and there were no other major events that had to be
conformed to.  Every group has its own Imperium from that period.
  Then came the Rebellion, and MegaTraveller.  Most of us old Classic
players can remember the cold shiver we got when Traveller's Digest
#9 hit the stands: "Emperor Strephon Assassinated!"  We knew, even
then, that "our" Imperium had been taken away from us.  Most of us
looked on as MT supplements appeared, moving the Rebellion forward
while leaving us behind.  No more home-cooked "major" events; here
was the future plotted in detail.
  Finally came the news: The New Era.  DGP retreats in disarray. GDW
takes back Traveller.  There was much rejoicing... But what's this?
GDW says they're going to finish the job the Rebellion started, and
tear down the Imperium completely.  70 YEARS?!?  Caused by a COMPUTER
VIRUS?  Thus we arrive at today.  What is different from MT, you
ask?  Here we sit while GDW puts on the "Let's Rebuild the
Imperium" show.
  Unlikely. At best. Recall, those of you who have the material, that
the Spinward Marches were settled by the expanding Third Imperium
in the 300's!  This was during an era of optimistic expansion and
exploration, with no Virus to slow them down. Three HUNDRED years
from Capital to Regina.  In this light, I don't think the maps will
change much, except to get more informative, unless GDW keeps
the calendar going breakneck.  Lines of communication will open
within the first 40 or 50 years sufficient to allow the historical
quotes in the TNE book, but actual sovereign borders will change
very slowly.  Pocket Empires will boom to a point, then discover that
quarantine is impossible on an expanding border. The RCES makes no
bones about expansion, but suffers the same problems of secure
borders.  The Regency won't advance a single parsec without extensive
cleansing operations and establishment of new links in the Quarantine
Line, and will reach the trailing end of Corridor to face the realities
of a Line that is not just advancing, but expanding as well. All while
recalling that the Line is held by charisma-happy Vargr in places
beyond the Regency's control. Enough to give a Regent nightmares.
  No, the map will not change quickly.  And when it does, there will
always be areas of the Third Imperium that will not come under the new
flag for centuries or more. Pick the right spot for your campaign and
have no interference from GDW, major events or no, for 50-150 years.
I strongly suspect that the interior of the Regency will be one of
those areas, barring initial development for the New Era.  Each
group can have "its own" New Era, knowing (and caring) only that
the universe gets a little bigger, and a little more Virus-free,
with each passing year.


 (Whew!)



James Kundert <j.kundert@genie.geis.com>
              <james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>

There was a young lady named Bright,
Whose speed was much faster, much faster than Light.
She departed one day in a relative way,
And returned on the previous Night.
   --Albert & the Heart of Gold

------------------------------

Bundle: 554
Archive-Message-Number: 6974
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 00:57 PST
Subject: re: Thruster Plates + G-Hours
From: Edward_Swatschek@mindlink.bc.ca (Edward Swatschek)

zcfbj00 writes:

> Yet another questionette for you all. I notice that Thruster Plates do
> not require fuel (directly) to operate - they just burn up power plant
> fuel when they draw their operating power. Since they don't themselves
> burn any fuel like HEPlaR does, then does this mean that the concept of
> G-Hours goes out of the proverbial window for Thruster Plates?

   Thruster plates supply thrust as long as you feed them juice, without
the need of reaction mass.  They have effectively unlimited g-hours.  These
are the reactionless drives from classic/Mega Traveller.


> I did a bit of calculating, and found that at TL 12, Fusion Power plants
> use 0.15 kl of fuel per year (actually, I wonder if this is the fuel
> consumption per kl of power plant, and not for the plant as a whole).

That's the fuel consumption per year per MW.


- --
               Edjs                    _
              ------                _ //  CI$  : 76427,662
   Edward_Swatschek@mindlink.bc.ca  \X/   GEnie: E.SWATSCHEK


------------------------------

Bundle: 554
Archive-Message-Number: 6975
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 03:26:48 -0800
From: rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger)
Subject: Roleplaying, adventuring, gaming.

 
 
Hi, Rodge here.
 
 
I agree with David Johnson.
 
My head is spinning.  I just read buns 543 to 553 (1 month of
messages).  I've heard of getting bogged down in the rules, but I
never imagined just how far that concept could be taken.
 
Just as David pointed out, the emphasis here lately does indeed seem
to be in the intricacies of the rules (equipment and how it works, the
laws of physics, critiques of rules releases, politics, etc.).  All
very fascinating to be sure.
 
But something seems to be missing.
 
To me, the word "Traveller" evokes thoughts and feelings of...
 
    DANGER!                 FACING THE ENEMY!
        ACTION!                DEATH DEFYING FEATS!
            ADVENTURE!             LARGER-THAN-LIFE HEROES!
                 EXCITMENT!             LIFE-THREATENING SITUATIONS!
 
 
    MYSTERY                    INTRIGUE              EVENTS
        COMBAT                    REVENGE                ENCOUNTERS
            SEARCH & RESCUE           GREED                  SCENARIOS
                CAT & MOUSE               GLORY                  SITUATIONS
 
 
     GOOD GUYS
         BAD GUYS
             UGLY GUYS
                 BEAUTIFUL WOMEN IN SKIMPY OUTFITS!
                     (just kidding)
 
 
In a word, "roleplaying."
 
 
                          Answer the call to
                                                                         !!
     A      DDD   V       V EEEE  N   N  TTTTTTT U    U  RRRR   EEEE    !!!!
    A A     D  D   V     V  E     NN  N     T    U    U  R   R  E       !!!!
   A   A    D   D   V   V   EEE   N N N     T    U    U  R R R  EEE      !!
  AA A AA   D  D     V V    E     N  NN     T    U    U  R  R   E
 A       A  DDD       V     EEEE  N   N     T     UUUU   R   R  EEEE     !!
 
 
What adventures have you run lately?
 
Any cool stories to tell?
 
How did your players wriggle free from the grasp of death?  Or
did they die wimpering on the end of a spit?
 
I for one would like to hear your ongoing storyline, or any portion of
it you would like to tell.
 
And, if you are interested, I'll look through my game log for a juicy
adventure or two to tell.  That is, if you like to talk about these
kinds of things here (playing the game).  I run a Traveller game
session (almost) every weekend, so I've got quite a few scenarios
piled up.
 
                             o o
                            \___/
 
                      Roger, Over and Out
 
                      Roger Sanger
                      rodge@cyberspace.com
                      (206) 363-1094
                      POBox 75472, Seattle, WA  98125
 
 
P.S.:  Kudos on the newspaper idea awhile back.  Makes good encounters.

------------------------------

Bundle: 554
Archive-Message-Number: 6976
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 12:04:42 BST
From: tom@csvax1.ucc.ie
Subject: Re: TNE Background (and rules postings)

David Johnson(djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov) asked for more postings on 
assessing and using the TNE background as opposed to rules discussions.

It is quite natural for there to be a lot of rules discussion when a new rules
set comes out, especially when it modifies the previous history of the
Traveller background to the extent that TNE did. With time these postings will
decrease in volume.

Concerning the TNE setting, its strengths are its weaknesses. The major
advantages of TNE over CT/MT are (a) no knowledge of previous history is
necessary, reducing the amount of reading for new players; (b) apart from 
the Regency, everywhere is a frontier zone ripe for re-exploration and 
rediscovery; (c) the Virus, although mostly under control, is still an
ever-present threat and has massively reduced automation, putting emphasis back
on the skills of people. The disadvantages are that (a) previous history and 
technology is changed, to the detriment of continuity for some campaigns; 
(b) apart from the Recency, nowhere is really safe as everywhere is a frontier
 zone; and (c) the Virus is a flagrant Plot Device, and questions such as 
 whether something as complicated as a starship could be operated by manual 
control with minimal computer assistance are ignored.(I can just see the
astrogator tapping in the millions of parameters for a jump from one computer
to another by hand without any mistakes(no error-checking, that would be too
dangerous) :-).  

I personally do not like the TNE background, and think there are gaping holes
in the logic behind it. GDW seem eager to encourage a "Merc 2000 in outer
space" mentality in an attempt to attract new players. They are a business and
want to make a profit, so that is their right. They are also more comfortable
with wargames than with RPG's and wish to stick to their area of expertise.
Anyone who seeks a non-military style of play will probably have to do most of
the work in setting up such a campaign themselves. Still, now we're stuck with
it, and live must go on.

However, TNE can and is being used for campaigns right now. Playing in a
"Return from the Dark Ages" campaign could be very interesting, depending on
how it was run. 
						Tom

  Tom O'Neill  |   Tom@CSVAX1.UCC.IE        SCCS6085@IRUCCVAX.UCC.IE 
- ---------------!--------------------------------------------------------------
                    Fact is stranger than fiction

------------------------------

Bundle: 554
Archive-Message-Number: 6977
Subject: Re: TML nightly: Msgs 6957-6968 V70#4 
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 14:28:47 +0100
From: Lionheart \|/ <u9019138@athmail1.causeway.qub.ac.uk>

First Off..I like the NEW ERA.

Our gaming group consists of two factions. The newbies and those who
know who Strephon is/was.

The new era has allowed me to reconcile these groups without
frustrating the oldies too much. The newbies play HIver techs and
Thugs etc and the others play Pre-Collapse Revenants.

I learned more about the Imperium from reading Survival margin than
from any other book...I deemed the Rebellion sourcebook to be a bit
of a waste. The old Empire wasn't alive the way TNE is. The Imperium
has a wealth of background and what isnt there can be created by
those people who are inventive enough. Most of my campaigns in the
past were almost exclusively hard Times...not because I had the
Supplement because it hasn't been seen here in Sunny Northern
ireland. The main reason was that I knew a bit about it and decided
that giving the players a HARD TIME rather than a soft cushy empire
was infintely preferable.

I was cowed when I played Traveller with other groupos
though..especially at Conventions. Rules are made ot be broken but
those old timers who didnt like the new RULES system were also
determined to give the background a good dig as well. 

I feel the system is an improvement. Old timers dont have to play it
and they don't have to play the new background. Isn't that nice of
GDW to give you a choice. You KNEW what is was going to be
like...from the release of Survival Margin...you knew the system was
going to be amalgamated with Twilight and dark Conspiracy. 

You didnt have to buy it.

If you did anyway...who's fault is it? GDWs?

Well thats my ...uh six guineas, three shillings and sixpence.

------------------------------

Bundle: 554
Archive-Message-Number: 6978
Subject: G-Hours, Thrusters and SpaceMines
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 14:34:23 +0100
From: Lionheart \|/ <u9019138@athmail1.causeway.qub.ac.uk>

GHours and Thrusters:
	Not having my book with me and not having been really 
	bothered about this topic I'll add tuppence. 

	In TNE there are no Thruster Plates anymore ?
	Reactionless drives are out yes?



Space Mines:
	Can you mine space? This has been bugging the hell out of me
	for a little while. Perhaps some of you old space diogs can
	tell me how or why not? Then I'll reply...

	Isn't that nice.


Matt...

------------------------------

Bundle: 554
Archive-Message-Number: 6979
From: b.borich@genie.geis.com
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 14:22:00 BST
Subject: Paintgun info

    I have somebody who could use some ideas of how to build a paintgun
using the FF&S design rules. Any hints, ideas, suggestions would
be appreciated.
    Thanx....

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 94 22:00:03 EST
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #555: Msgs 6980-6994 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Sun Mar 20 22:00:02 EST 1994
Reply-To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Errors-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Mar 94 22:00:03 EST
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #555: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 555  6980 16-Mar-1994 Anthony "K." Ba  Some Answers, some cynical comments << 
 555  6981 16-Mar-1994 Goldman of Chao  JoTAS #3 for sale. << Journal of the Tr
 555  6982 16-Mar-1994 Anthony "K." Ba  Proper Answer... <<   
 555  6983 16-Mar-1994 johnps1010@aol.  I can hear you. << Dear Mr. Perkins
 555  6984 16-Mar-1994 Roger Sanger     reposing the garbled part... <<  
 555  6985 17-Mar-1994 muskrat500@aol.  Submission << Quote:
 555  6986 16-Mar-1994 James Kundert    Thruster Plates << zcfbj00 <zcfbj00@ucl
 555  6987 16-Mar-1994 john991@tampa.r  << Subject: Rock as a Hull material
 555  6988 17-Mar-1994 Ron Dawson       TNE vs CT/MT background << In Archive-M
 555  6989 17-Mar-1994 "Susan M. Shock  RE: background << I'm a little ticked o
 555  6990 17-Mar-1994 Joni M Virolain  background << So, about background "imp
 555  6991 17-Mar-1994 Joni M Virolain  help << I think the medical equipment a
 555  6992 17-Mar-1994 A.S.Lilly@bnr.c  Background... << Background? Who needed
 555  6993 17-Mar-1994 Lionheart \|/    Technology BOGGLE!!!  <<  Brent  <b.woo
 555  6994 17-Mar-1994 TML Administrat  ftp.engrg.uwo.ca is up << 'Nuf said.

------------------------------

Bundle: 555
Archive-Message-Number: 6980
From: Anthony "K." Baggaley <mcdapab@prawn.ch.umist.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 15:56:16 GMT
Subject: Some Answers, some cynical comments


Well it looks like all the moans about GDW's massive incompetence
and discussions over obscure traveller/science facts has all moved
to the gdw-beta list. Pity, that's what I really liked about the 
TML, but I'm sure all the TNE players out there wouldn't agree...

I just thought I'd try answering a few questions people asked 
yesterday. (It's either that or my 'why TNE is trash' flame, and
I'm still collecting evidence for that)

"Michael A. Masten" asked
>I have a question about the Virus that keeps getting mentioned in TNE.
>What is it and where did it come from?

What is it?-  A computer virus that turned every computer bigger
 than a desktop into an A.I. and then destroyed that computer,also
 using any devices that computer controlled to kill as many people
 as possible (which with computer controlled life support systems,
 vehicles and weapons meant a LOT of people). It spread throughout
 inhabited space, except for the area spinward of Corridor which
 somehow managed to isolate itself by preventing infected ships
 entering. Most planets simply died without high technology or
 trade, the rest went back to the dark ages.

What is it?2- depending on peoples point of view, it is also-
  1) a way to turn Traveller into a 'Dark Future' RPG, while still
     being able to say 'No, it's about REBUILDING society, honest-
     we only need the Fusion Rifles for our own protection'
  2) a way to release a new Traveller set that didn't need new 
     players to learn the whole Imperial background (destroying
     90% of it may have rather overdone the idea)
  3) a way to clean out a background that was just too big and 
     complex for the new design team to cope with.
  4) a way to destroy the Imperial background... just because they
     could.
  5) a way to annoy me- personally :)

Where did it come from?- The Imperium designed it itself (I think
 it was an Imperial Naval Inteligence project originally). The 
 A.I. routines came from the Cymberline (sp?) intelligent silicon
 chips out of the old Signal GK adventure- it was claimed they had
 actually been discovered years ago but covered up while the 
 research was underway. Designed as a Doomsday weapon,
 it was accidently released during the Rebellion. 

Where did it come from?2- again, depending on who you ask-
   1) TNE designers-  Frank and Dave (the Game Guys)
   2) several other people- but don't claim GDW nicked any ideas
      off you, or they'll sue!
   3) someone who didn't know squat about computers or the Traveller
      background 
   4) a bad dream


   And, if you ARE considering changing to TNE, be warned that the
 only things that changed over from CT with no real changes are the
 planet generation and trade rules, and with most of the Imperium
 having a population code of 0, what use are they?. It is annoying
 when weapons change weights, prices, ammo etc- even moreso when 
 ships change cargo space, crew etc.

                      -----------------

David Johnson asked-

>concerned with the `Big Picture'.  Is there anyone else who thinks
>discussions about weapon penetration, craft design, and planetary
>science is a little moot in a two-dimensional universe?

>(I'm not trying to hassle you `rules junkies' - I'm just looking for
>some like-minded-souls of my own.)

>In an effort to start a `Background' discussion, here's a question:  What
>is there to recommend TNE (vs. MT or CT) from a `background' point of
>view?  Forget the new rules and such, is the new campaign an improvement
>over the ante-Rebellion, Rebellion and Hard Times eras?  (For the sake 
>of discussion let's ignore the hard, cold reality that TNE is the only
>campaign being supported officially.)

Good point about the 2D Universe.

Well I'd put myself more in the rules-junkie area, but like most
Traveller players (I suspect) I've stuck with it because of the
background, not the rules. 

As for the merits of various backgrounds, the only 'merit' I can 
see in TNE is that the 'area of interest' i.e. the area that the
published background covers, is less 'civilised'. PCs have more of
a chance to act as bloodthirsty criminals and get away with it, with
smaller governments or no government in most areas. It has an
advantage- with all these smaller ponds PCs have more chance to be
big fish, which should suit some people and could be interesting
if they use this power for anything other than stealing chickens.
However, most Arses background I've seen implies they prefer to
'shoot people with big guns'- I get the impression it's this that's
making TNE so popular (not on this mature list of course :>)
 That you could do all this in CT, just outside of the Imperium,
means TNE has no real improvement over CT. But, again, it depends
who you ask...

                     ---------------------

zcfbj00@ucl.ac.uk (Constantine, not John I hope) asked

>   Yet another questionette for you all. I notice that Thruster Plates
>do not require fuel (directly) to operate - they just burn up power plant
>fuel when they draw their operating power. Since they don't themselves
>burn any fuel like HEPlaR does, then does this mean that the concept of
>G-Hours goes out of the proverbial window for Thruster Plates?

I liked your article on Star/Planet types- I've never seen an RPG
that dealt clearly with the issue of steller lifetimes and heavy
element distribution- the 'star wars' style players may not need
it but some of us try to fit a bit of realism inbetween the FTL drives
and reationless thrusters. Those notes you did look quite useful,
thanks for posting them.

 Now, HEPlaR vs. Thrusters... Oh boy, when did you get here?
You certainly missed the big fight over Fusion Drives when TNE 
came out. Here's a short history of Traveller Drives-
 1) Classic Traveller- Drives move your ship from 1-6G, it's left
    to the Ref to descibe how they work. Some assume Scramjet and
    Fusion, some use reactionless thrusters, some ignore it etc.
    It all seemed to work fine (I suspect most Refs used some form
    of safe drive after the players started trying to use it as a
    weapon.)
 2) First Edition High Guard- for this one book, there was a mention
    of drives using fusion. It was removed in the 2nd Ed. Maybe they
    realised how dangerous that was.
 3) MegaTraveller. Thruster Plates are Official- put the power in,
    your ship goes. Forget about reaction mass. Nice and safe.
 4) Traveller-The New Error. Fusion Drives are back again, except
    they call them HEPlaR and claim they are safe, even if they do
    produce exhaust as hot and fast as any Fusion Drive. Rough
    calculations showed that any 100T+ ship could incinerate a city
    from orbit. The arguement over whether to -ignore physics and
    make it useless as a weapon/ stick with thruster plates/ use
    the drive realistically and give players a reusable nuclear
    weapon - was the closest thing to a flame-war seen on the TML
   
   Basically, you are barking up the right tree. Thruster Plates
  work by converting electrical power into thrust, breaking lots
  of Physical Laws, no reaction mass needed. No fuel for the Drive
  AT ALL. Run them off batteries or Solar Cells, no fuel or reaction
  mass need be in the vehicle. This is much more useful than
  HEPlaR of course, if you read FF&S it basically explains why
  Thruster Plates are so bad (never mind they used to be in
  Traveller). Actually I thought FF&S explained most of what you
  asked, but being GDW it's STILL difficult to follow unless you've
  read everything from CT Book 2 ,then Book 5, then Striker
  then MT.
   Final Note- Remember that Thrusters no longer exist in the
  'official' Traveller background. Thruster Plates are so useful
  that HEPlaR is obsolete if they exist. Still, it's so much
  cheaper that it has uses...
                        -------------------
  And finally... for those few people on the TML that have ever 
  sent me mail, please notice I have a new email address. Thanks
  for dealing with the address change so quickly James
                       Hope that was some use.
                                     
                              Anthony K.
                      (someone must have been telling lies about me)
 most reliable email address (HA!) mcdapab@s1.ch.umist.ac.uk

------------------------------

Bundle: 555
Archive-Message-Number: 6981
Subject: JoTAS #3 for sale.
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 10:22:34 CST
From: goldman@orac.cray.com (Goldman of Chaos -- postmaster CRI-US)
Reply-To: goldman@orac.cray.com

Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society #3 for sale.
Issue is in good shape.  Best offer by 3-23 takes 
it.  Buyer pays shipping.

Matt

- -- 
Matthew Goldman  E-mail: goldman@orac.cray.com Work: (612) 683-3061

My day today? Nothing major, just Xenon base gone, Scorpio gone, 
Tarrant dead, Tarrant alive and then I found out Blake sold us out.

------------------------------

Bundle: 555
Archive-Message-Number: 6982
From: Anthony "K." Baggaley <mcdapab@prawn.ch.umist.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 16:57:10 GMT
Subject: Proper Answer...

  
   Re; Constantine's question on Thruster Plates-
I've already sent a post where I waffle on about Traveller drives (I haven't
recieved any sign it reached the list yet, I'll assume it has). Anyway after
reading the TML at more leisure I realised I was so busy talking about the 
drives I never answered your question on whether G-turns apply with Thruster
Plates. The real answer is that G-turns don't apply with Thruster plates at
all, the amount of time that ship can thrust just depends on how long you can
keep that power plant running. And yes, that is a year if you use a fusion
plant. 
 Also, you are right in assuming it uses fuel PER KL of power plant... actually
in the old days it was measured PER MW of power plant, so check that table
carefullly.
                  Don't you wish people would actually READ the posts they
                                                           reply to?
                            Anthony K. 

------------------------------

Bundle: 555
Archive-Message-Number: 6983
From: johnps1010@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 22:23:34 EST
Subject: I can hear you.

Dear Mr. Perkins
     Actually, you responded much sooner than I expected.  I did receive your
message and can't wait for my address to be activated.  I would like to be
placed on the nightly digest list.  I think it will be more mangable.
     I have been a Traveller player for quite a long time and just recently
started GMing.  I think your newsletter is just what I have been looking for.
 
     One thing that I did not quite understand is are you asking for my home
address or just my electronic address.  I am still very new to Internet and
get confussed rather easily on the Electronic Super Highway.  I still haven't
found a good map to guide me.

Thank You

John Schweitzer in Evansville, IN, USA

------------------------------

Bundle: 555
Archive-Message-Number: 6984
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 19:54:52 -0800
From: rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger)
Subject: reposing the garbled part...

 
 
Hmmm, my last post really got garbled, so I'm reposting the part
that got destroyed...
 
To me, the word "Traveller" evokes thoughts and feelings of...
 
   DANGER!               FACING THE ENEMY!
   ACTION!               DEATH DEFYING FEATS!
   ADVENTURE!            LARGER-THAN-LIFE HEROES!
   EXCITMENT!            LIFE-THREATENING SITUATIONS!
 
   MYSTERY               INTRIGUE         EVENTS
   COMBAT                REVENGE          ENCOUNTERS
   SEARCH & RESCUE       GREED            SCENARIOS
   CAT & MOUSE           GLORY            SITUATIONS
 
   GOOD GUYS
   BAD GUYS
   UGLY GUYS
   BEAUTIFUL WOMEN IN SKIMPY OUTFITS!
 
 
In a word, "roleplaying."
 
 
                        Answer the call to
                                                                  !!
     A     DDD  V       V EEEE N   N TTTTTTT U    U RRRR  EEEE   !!!!
    A A    D  D  V     V  E    NN  N    T    U    U R   R E      !!!!
   A   A   D   D  V   V   EEE  N N N    T    U    U R R R EEE     !!
  AA A AA  D  D    V V    E    N  NN    T    U    U R  R  E
 A       A DDD      V     EEEE N   N    T     UUUU  R   R EEEE    !!
 
 
(In case it's garbled again, it says:  Answer the call to:  ADVENTURE!)
 
What's up in your campaign?
 
What tortures do you put your players through?
 
I'm looking forward to reading all about it.
 
Hopefully, in the next few days, I'll post some excerpts from my
own Traveller campaign.
 
 
                      Sincerely,
                      Roger Sanger
 

------------------------------

Bundle: 555
Archive-Message-Number: 6985
From: muskrat500@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 94 00:24:29 EST
Subject: Submission

Quote:

Gentlesophonts:

Are there any folks out there who are more interested in campaign
background rather than rules and such?  TML discussions of late seem to
be overwhelmed with questions and debates over what are, IMHO, minutia.

Is there anyone else who thinks
discussions about weapon penetration, craft design, and planetary
science is a little moot in a two-dimensional universe?

Endquote.

    YES! While I loved CT's rules, and find T:TNE workable, it's the
background that's drawn me over the years. I guess I just get lost in hi-tech
discussions of the physics of systems that defy the laws of physics as we
know them. Most of the time, they really don't even affect the game that
much.
    For my 2 crs worth, I loved CT's background, but never really saw why the
Imperium's grasp on its world was so tenuous as to allow for interstellar
mini-wars. I think the new setting works much better as an area for
adventurer exploration....though I'd love to see more info from the Spinward
Marches. Call me a romantic, but I miss the old Empire. I still think of the
Zhodani as the ultimate enemy. 
    And while I can accept two-dimensionality on the Imperial maps, 2-D
Brilliant Lances seems rather more silly at times.

------------------------------

Bundle: 555
Archive-Message-Number: 6986
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 22:09:32 PST
From: James Kundert <james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>
Subject: Thruster Plates

zcfbj00 <zcfbj00@ucl.ac.uk> asks:

 >I notice that Thruster Plates
 >do not require fuel (directly) to operate - they just burn up power plant
 >fuel when they draw their operating power. Since they don't themselves
 >burn any fuel like HEPlaR does, then does this mean that the concept of
 >G-Hours goes out of the proverbial window for Thruster Plates?


to which Anthony "K." Baggaley <mcdapab@prawn.ch.umist.ac.uk> replies:

 > The real answer is that G-turns don't apply with Thruster plates at
 >all, the amount of time that ship can thrust just depends on how long
 >you can keep that power plant running. And yes, that is a year if you
 >use a fusion plant. 


 Sigh.  To put the record straight, the term "G-Hours" (or "G-Turns")
has two uses.  One of these _always_ applies. Repeat: Always.

 Acceleration in TNE space combat is measured in G-Hours.  No matter
which thruster technology you decide to use, this is so.  Your Maneuver
Drives produce so much thrust, and (for combat purposes) does so in
periods measured in hours or half-hours.  One G of thrust for an
hour equals 1 G-Hour. Clear so far?

 Most Maneuver Drives require something to spit out the back end of the
ship.  This reaction mass is also, for convenience, measured in G-Hours.
That way there is supposedly no confusion about how much fuel the ship
has available.  HEPlaR drives use reaction mass, as do Fusion Rockets.
Thruster Plates do NOT use reaction mass.  This usage of "G-Hours"
does not apply to Thruster Plates.

 So: Yes, a Thruster ship still accelerates using G-Hours of THRUST,
but requires no G-Hours of FUEL to do so (aside from what the power
plant is using).


James Kundert <j.kundert@genie.geis.com>
              <james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>

There was a young lady named Bright,
Whose speed was much faster, much faster than Light.
She departed one day in a relative way,
And returned on the previous Night.
   --Albert & the Heart of Gold

------------------------------

Bundle: 555
Archive-Message-Number: 6987
From: john991@tampa.relay.ucm.org
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 23:17:33 CST

Subject: Rock as a Hull material
  
Between watching Babalon 5, old episodes of Gundam Mobile Suit,
and just plain dreaming, I was trying to think of a way to design
an O'Neill type colony using Traveller Starship construction
rules.
  
Megatraveller and CT had the Planatoid/Asteriod Hull type.  That
could be adapted to a space colony fairly easily.  This type of
construction seems to be missing in TNE.  I haven't tried to adapt
MT/CT rules to TNE yet.  Does anyone have any suggestions on
designing a space colony.  Orbital colonies don't seem to be a
part of the traveller universe and I really don't know why.
Especially in asteroids fields.
 
About as far as I got on a colony design was the size/volume.
Since you need a diameter of about 1.7km to get a rotation rate of
1 RPM to produce a centripetal acceleration of 9.8m/s^2, my basic
hull was a cylinder 1.7km in diameter and 5.2km long. Roughly
700 million displacement tons.  Add a fusion reactor an fuel for a
year, some storage space for supplies and you have a space colony.
  
My problem? What to use for the variables in the hull materials
table.  The colony still needs a hull AV of 30 to protect from
radiation.  Also, solar cells instead of fusion.  Why centripetal
acceleration for gravity instead of grav plates? In order to
reduce the energy required to power the colony.
  
Any thoughts? comments? suggestions?
 
Topic 2:
Path of Tears: The Star Viking Sourcebook.
     My comments. Nice sourcebook. Lots of info.  Enough info for
100+ adventures.  Answers some questions too.

John Bucsek              John991@tampa.relay.ucm.org


------------------------------

Bundle: 555
Archive-Message-Number: 6988
From: rdawson@business.carleton.ca (Ron Dawson)
Subject: TNE vs CT/MT background
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 94 3:03:01 EST

In Archive-Message-Number 6958, djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David
Johnson) writes:

>Are there any folks out there who are more interested in campaign
>background rather than rules and such?

I have always been attracted to traveller because of the background. It
is this attraction to the campaign background that I think generated so
much heated argument over the TNE background.
  
>...here's a question:  What is there to recommend TNE (vs. MT or CT)
>from a 'background' point of view?
>
Well... when I first realized that GDW was killing the Imperium and much
of known space and history, I was shocked.  After a while though I've
come to believe that the Imperium had to be killed.  

MT and CT has explained away much of the mystery of the ancients, and as
others have said, there were few frontiers.  The only really interesting
exploration seemed to be part of the Zhodhani core expiditions.  Of the
frontier and ancients mysteries, the ancients "history" particularly
bothered me.  Am I alone, or does the grandfather story sound lame?  I
never liked that story line, and it ruined the "ancient" mystery for me.

So, there was no mystery, and the imperium seemed impregnable.  They
intriduced the Rebellion to "liven" the setting up.  It was pretty
evident after a while that they were heading towards a dark age.  The
virus simply quickened things so they could start anew much sooner.  

With the TNE setting, the entire imperium is a mystery outside of the
Spinward Marches or whatever little pocket empire you use as your
setting.  We don't know what the jeck the black curtain is.  We don't
know what happened to the Solomani.  We don't really know what's going
on in the Aslan Hierate.  There is a lot of mystery out there, lots of
stuff to work with.  

While I have problems with timing (I don't buy some of the timing
elements associated with the spread of transponder technology necessary
for the virus to have spread; I also think the timeline should have been
advanced another 100 to 200 years to have allowed for more alien
cultures to have evolved in isolation) I think the background changes
offer greater potential for different types of adventure

I wonder if Project Longbow may be the reason they chose to advance
history to where they did.  Probably.  

Despite my timing reservations, and questions about the virus, I am glad
they restored mystery to the background.  I still have a strong love of
the old imperium, and I do think that the old background is useful for
planning a new era campaign.  It can be fun trying to figure out what
happened to various worlds.

- - Ron Dawson

rdawson@business.carleton.ca


------------------------------

Bundle: 555
Archive-Message-Number: 6989
Date:         Thu, 17 Mar 94 04:18:51 EST
From: "Susan M. Shock" <34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Subject:      RE: background

I'm a little ticked off at the TNE rules, but I have no beef with the setting.
What I DO get annoyed with is people who seem to forget that this is FICTION.
So what if Virus is scientifically impossible? JUMP DRIVES are impossible! The
damn thruster plates are impossible! All of the best science-fiction I've ever
read was about PEOPLE, not things; things work just because they work.
   Also, a lot of people have been complaining that TNE is just T:2000 in space
and I submit that this has to do with emphasis placed by the players and the GM
in the campaign, In my campaign, the Star Vikings are an EXPLORATORY force.
They view themselves as descendants of the IISS. They are combat-trained, yes,
and they aren't afraid to use that training, especially when pursuing their
secondary goal of recovering lost technology, but reexploration and rediscovery
is the primary emphasis. My players don't even LIKE to use Fusion Guns-too
hard to use in close quarters. The favorite weapon is the ACR with DS ammo.
Keep in mind that some of these "low tech" worlds in the Wilds can be as high
as tl 8-10! Enemies can have some pretty effective weapons, and even spaceships
at those levels.
   I think the griping about the changes in the Traveller universe tech is
about 50% legit and 50% simple complaining by people who can't tolerate change.
I am annoyed with some of the rules glitches (and some things that aren't
glitches, such as firearms skills being based off STR and the autofire rules)
but I don't give a rip about changes to maneuver drives. Reactionless thusters,
HEPlar fusion drives...hell, I wouldn't careif they had to get out and PUSH if
it made a good story.
  All I know is that the New Era background lets me tell the kind of stories I
like to tell. That's why I like the background.

------------------------------

Bundle: 555
Archive-Message-Number: 6990
From: Joni M Virolainen <jonimv@evitech.fi>
Subject: background
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 1994 11:42:52 +0200 (EET)

So, about background "improvement". 

I have to admit that I have run only one TNE scenario and that's my experience
with Traveller so my opinions can't be based on first hand information. 
Based on that little information I have about CT has convinced me that it
is/was the best Traveller setting. In CT the Imperium is stable maybe slowly
expanding and there is lot of Hi-Tech in contrast to TNE where is lot to
expand and little Hi-Tech readily available.

IMHO the rebellion was GDW's worst mistake because it lead to the collapse as
an only "rational" way out. I believe that after the rebellion the Imperium
would have stayed dead and in place where Imperium were, there would have
been only a few independent states and no-man's land.

I have to admit that I run a Star Viking campaign but I *hope* that this is 
only a bridge to something greater. I keep thinking that because I doubt that
my players or me can find long-term fun from exploring and recontaction 
worlds. Maybe GDW publishes material conserning RC's "developed" planets.


*********************************** 
* WARNING      / Joni Virolainen, *
* Biological   / VANTAA, FINLAND  *
* Hazard !!!   / jonimv@evitech.fi*
***********************************

------------------------------

Bundle: 555
Archive-Message-Number: 6991
From: Joni M Virolainen <jonimv@evitech.fi>
Subject: help
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 1994 11:43:57 +0200 (EET)

I think the medical equipment are a bit too archaic compared to TL12.
The injection needles are fine at TL7 but where are airhypos and spray skin
etc.? I don't have FF&S so I dont know if I can construct these with it, 
please somebody tell me!

In fact I am planning a side project which uses Cyberpunk 2020's damage system
and a pocket empire based on my old non-Traveller game's universe. It's
highest TL is 12. I intend to use it primarily as a test field to my rules
variants and new equipment and maybe to blend in a bit of magic and horror,
I just love the cross-genre setting.

So, if you have any ideas about above mentioned topics or how/when to use 
whole blood or blood plasma I'd like to know.

*********************************** 
* WARNING      / Joni Virolainen  *
* Biological   / VANTAA, FINLAND  *
* Hazard !!!   / jonimv@evitech.fi*
***********************************

------------------------------

Bundle: 555
Archive-Message-Number: 6992
From: A.S.Lilly@bnr.co.uk
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 94 10:23:09 GMT
Subject: Background...

Background? Who needed a rebellion (or complete collapse) to give us the
background for _any_ adventure ever required?

Bored with high tech stuff?
 Force the players onto a lower tech world.
Want to show them how to rely on their own skills rather than technology?
 Crash the players' (or someone else's) starship in the wilderness.
 Better still, massive engine failure leaves them drifting in space. Just
  how long will their oxygen last? Crash on an airless planet? There's no
  air out there and there's no flora and fauna to survive on. So who's
  volunteering their body as rations for the others?
 Even on an otherwise unadventurous exploration, if the party's native
  guide gets kille dor deliberately leaves them, just how well can they
  survive once left to their own devices? It only requires one bad roll to
  crash the party vehicle and damage the radio, or some other critical item
  upon which everyone was relying for rescue.

And lawlessness. Want to blow people away?
 What do you think low law level worlds are for?
 Even in our supposedly lawful society there are murders, gangland violence,
 drug dealing on the streets, mass political corruption, blackmail, fraud
  involving millions or billions of pounds (credits). You don't have to
 switch to a James Bond or Judge Dredd scenario to put some action into
 your games!

Don't like guns?
 The world is full of murders by strangulation, beating to death, knifings
 (with knives, razors, broken bottles, etc.). And then there's just plain
 beating up on people. High law world? Suddenly a pen-knife starts to seem
 like a good weapon? Got Unarmed Combat or Brawling? Suddenly all the gun-
 handlers are asking _you_ for protection against the nasty man in the
 alley who's got a baseball bat with nails stuck in it.
 i.e. You don't need guns to hurt/scare characters. And if they do need them
 to have a chance of winning, but you didn't let them take any on planet,
 then you can have lots of fun using Streetwise, etc. to find such weapons
 on the black market. Much more fun than walking down to the local hyper-
 market and stocking up on Uzi's.

Want a war?
 Okay, so the main planet is described as a boring peaceful high law-level
  world. But that only represents the majority. There will always be the
 Libyas, Iraqs, etc. and if that doesn't give some scope for military action
 then you need an upgrade kit for your imagination.

Still can't get away from the main world being boring?
 Got World Builder's Handbook or Scouts (Book 6)? What are all those other
 planets and asteroid belts doing in-system. Do you think the asteroid
 depot which serves as the local belter's R&R is going to be Law Level 9 just
 because the main planet is staffed by wimps? Even today (1994) we have
 certain relaxed laws for people in arduous tasks (oil rigs, etc.)
 And there's no reason why other planets in system can't be very different
  from the main world. Even colonies break away eventually (subtle US/UK
 joke :) - look no further for an excuse for a war of Independence).

And if your character's don't want to stick to the law, well they can bend
rather than break, steal by stealth rather than by force...

You don't need the rebellion or TNE hard times as background. The original
Imperium gave you plenty of scope for adventure, action, etc. I guess some
people just don't look hard enough...

Not that the better (I didn't say that so please don't bother to reply with
arguments, etc.) rules systems in MT and TNE aren't useful. I'm just saying
that even a Law 9 Tech 15 place can have an awful lot of illegal activities
going on (just thought of another one - computer crime, c.f. Sneakers with
Robert Redford - now wouldn't that be a good way to scare the s!?t out of
your players...)

In answer, yes, lets have more background... I've got complete written records
of every adventure I have run for my two Traveller groups, but they're a bit
big just to download and they don't include the referee's details of each
scenario. Perhaps some day I'll write another book about one [SUBTLE HINT,
I'VE STILL NOT HEARD A PEEP OUT OF GDW].

Andy Lilly

Commander, PITS Team (Political Intelligence Team, Scout)
"We are never out-gunned..."
Nothing I say or do here in anyway reflects the views of my very kind,
understanding and generally wonderful employers

------------------------------

Bundle: 555
Archive-Message-Number: 6993
Subject: Technology BOGGLE!!! 
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 94 10:28:22 +0100
From: Lionheart \|/ <u9019138@athmail1.causeway.qub.ac.uk>

 Brent  <b.woods6@genie.geis.com> writes...

>Well, no.  Not for me, anyway.  Technology has always been the
>primary focus of my interest in Science Fiction.  The new background
>severely cripples the technology that I have become accustomed to.

The solution here is then not to dwell on being Star Vikings from ye Olde
Mudball worshipping a semi-sentient Air/raft but to dwell on being Regency
marines...or High tech dudes. 

The Virus so far has been seen as a destructive thing. Making people wary of
technology...with the viral mutations you can have your Blakes 7 ORAC only
smarter on board. Robots which are fully self aware. Technology designed by a
super advanced AI...

As for the gripes about FFS...and the guy who wanted a paintball gun
designed...

	What???

This is the old ....we have a doohickey to couple the vroodle but its easier
to do it by hand.  Just beacuse a supplement comes out..it doesnt stop you
from winging it..If a paintball gun mattered that much that i had to work out
muzzle velocities then I'd wonder about the sort of game I was really playing.
I dont worry about the hows and whys other than  perhaps a
page of blurb for inquisitive players. In a world that has
Jump drives and Gravitics technology I don't think working
muzzle velocities to the third decimal place really satisfies
anyone. When I see a new ship I dont pay much attention to
details like G-Hours...I just wanna know how far the thing can
take us, how many of us can get in, how much cargo we can take
and does it have the safeguards to transport Powdered
Aluminium. 
Like Rodge said...when I think of TNE I think of wild-eyed
loners standing at the gates of oblivion who havent told their
parents what time they would be home for...

The rules system is a hell of a lot easier to manage than the
previous sets though Black/red Traveller still lingers in my
mind though the truth is I was using the TNE House system for
years with my traveller game.

The saddest thing about losing the Imperium is that NEWBIES
will not be able to get their mitts on the really old
stuff..the background that I loved. Snippets are fine but the
whole thing is much more satisfying. It's mostly gone now
though if sufficient interest were spouted I'm sure someone if
no GDW would produce a background pack for the new era...just
for newbies who still want to play Pre-Collapse Revenants
which IMHO is one of the most fun roles to play..

I've been quiet for a while on this list. This was because the
topics of discussion were basically "Tut Tut..GDW are so bad
cos they made a mistake on the third column, second row of the
hair colour table for the native inhabitants of a garden
planet..". I don't find this interesting. Sorry.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                      Matt Johnston
            u9019138@athmail1.causeway.qub.ac.uk
NOTHING IS TRUE, ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE, EVERYTHING IS PERMITTED
		William S. Burroughs
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



 
     

------------------------------

Bundle: 555
Archive-Message-Number: 6994
Subject: ftp.engrg.uwo.ca is up
Reply-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Administrator)
From: TML Administrator <traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca>
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 94 09:29:19 PST


'Nuf said.

__   __/         /   /	    Internet Traveller Mailing List, Administrator
    /     /  /  /   /	   James T. Perkins in Eugene, Oregon, USA
 __/   __/__/__/ _____/   traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 94 22:00:03 EST
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #556: Msgs 6995-7002 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Sun Mar 20 22:00:02 EST 1994
Reply-To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Errors-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Mar 94 22:00:03 EST
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #556: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 556  6995 17-Mar-1994 David Johnson    TNE Background << Gentlesophonts:
 556  6996 17-Mar-1994 psualum@aol.com  errata & wish list << Many thanks to Ed
 556  6997 18-Mar-1994 b.woods6@genie.  Re: Technology BOGGLE!!! <<  
 556  6998 18-Mar-1994 Dane Johnson     Ye Gods! << Re: TML of 3/17...
 556  6999 18-Mar-1994 tom@csvax1.ucc.  RE: Trav Background, automation, people
 556  7000 18-Mar-1994 S_DMOODY@pstcc.  Traveller Backgrounds and Adventures <<
 556  7001 18-Mar-1994 "Alexander W. H  Jumpstart & Longbow << Could someone pl
 556  7002 18-Mar-1994 falameezar@aol.  Re: #1(2) TML nightly: Msgs 6... << Ple

------------------------------

Bundle: 556
Archive-Message-Number: 6995
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 94 15:29:33 CST
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: TNE Background

Gentlesophonts:

Wow!  Now that was a response.  I'm pleased to discover so many folks who
are concerned with backround.  Thanks to everyone.  I'll get to specific
points in a moment but first I'd like to let you know where I'm coming
from.

I have been playing RPGs since the early days of D&D, probably since before
some of you were even born!  (Can it really have been that long?)  My first
RPG rules were those first three D&D booklets:

Book 1: "Characters and Com . . . , er, I mean "Men and Magic"
Book 2: "Starshi . . . , oops, it was "Monsters"
Book 3: "Wilderness Adven . . . , yikes, rather "Worlds and Adventures"

And then I bought the supplements as they came out, you know:

"Greyhawk" (or was it "Mercenary"?)
"Blackmoor" (or maybe "High Guard"?)
Etc.

You get the picture.  Then came the revised, full-size rule books for
"MegaDungeons . . . , er, I mean "Advanced Dungeons and Dragons".  And I
just had to buy everything: the three basic books, the "Monster Manual",
the "Deities and Demigods Cyclopedia", etc., etc.  And then came the new
magazine, "The Journal of the . . . , no, it was "Challenge . . . , nope,
I got it, "The Dragon".  Yeah, that's the ticket.

Early on my interest in sci-fi was piqued by my discovery of Traveller.
I bought the original booklets, the supplements, the additional booklets,
the adventures, the *Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society*, the double
adventures, etc., etc.  It was great!  I loved the richly detailed
background of the Imperium.  It had everything: bustling frontiers,
backwaters, decaying cores, alien realms, remote reaches . . . .

And then came that fateful day when the Emperor was assassinated (or was
he?).  MegaTraveller appeared and I was overcome with a sense of *deja vu*.
This had happened before.  Someone was reaching for my wallet again.  I had
a rebellion of my own - the only MegaTraveller item I bought was *The
Rebellion Sourcebook*.  In the words of an old sage, "Fool me once, shame
on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me!"  (In the years since then I've come
into possession of second-hand copies of most MegaTraveller items.)

And then it happened again!  The "Rebellion" became "Hard Times" which
`evolved' into "The Next Genera . . . , oops, into "The New Era".  (I seem to keep getting confused - all these RPG and sci-fi terms are so similar.  And
then, would you believe it?, Gary "Tolkein? Never heard of him!" Gygax shows
up at GDW.  But that couldn't have anything to do with all this, could it?)

Anyway, all good things must come to an end I guess.  I abandoned
`Imperial' space altogether and have spent the last couple of years working
on a completely original Traveller campaign.

You may not believe me, but it was not my intention with my post to start a
b**ch session about TNE and to pine away for the `good old days' of CT.  I
don't like what GDW's done, but it's their game and they can do with it as
they please.  I accept that.  (Then again, remember *New* Coke?  :-)  But
now, given that TNE is all that's being supported, I want to know what
there is to recommend TNE as a campaign background.  Several of you have
made some good points toward answering that question.  Let me get to them.

 
Rupert G. Goldie <rgg@aaii.oz.au> says:
  
>  Before I finish, how could I comment on TNE without mentioning The
> Virus. I've
> never been quite as violently opposed to The Virus as some members of
> this 
> list ;-), but I have to admit it is _really_ depressing looking at those 
> before and after subsector listings and seeing all those XXX000-0 planets
> that
> used to be thriving societies.

Hmmm, role-playing as "depressing".  Sounds like a post-holocaust game to
me, but "Twilight 2000" in space wouldn't be very original now, would it?
 
 
b.woods6@genie.geis.com (Brent Woods?) says:
   
> To my mind, the
> Virus environment is a giant step backward.  Technology has *regressed*.
> Technology has always been the
> primary focus of my interest in Science Fiction.  The new background
> severely cripples the technology that I have become accustomed to.

Hmmm, more post-holocaust - or `low-tech' sci-fi?  Isn't that a
contradiction?

 
James Kundert <james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us> says:

>  The New Era has, thanks to the surviving Regency, more variety than
> the previous eras.

Is this really the case?  Isn't it more accurate to say that TNE has more
variety than previous eras *within the same astrographic region*?  What
does TNE have to offer over the *real* frontiers of previous eras - those
regions beyond the settled areas of the Imperium and the other Major
States?

> It has old, well established civilization.

So did previous eras.
 
> It has
> endless battles against a foe that nobody likes (even that foe's
> relatives).

True, so now there is a *universal bad guy* (like D&D orcs or the Nazis
of Indiana Jones) for `hack-and-slashers' to slaughter at will, but
is this an improvement?  Or is it even really very different?  I remember
some pretty virulent encounters with the `Zho dogs' in the early CT days
before Norris `reprogrammed' the Imperial (Deneb) propaganda machine once
the Rebellion forced him to realize there'd be no Corridor Fleet to pull
his a** out of a Sixth Frontier War.

> It has exploration and reclamation, salvage and new
> construction.

Again, so did previous eras, just not in the `developed' sectors.

> Everywhere you look, there is an exploratory frontier
> (as opposed to a political one, the only kind the previous eras knew).

Not true, see above.  It seems from these points that TNE offers nothing
over the previous backgound except to make the `great unknown' more
`accessible' to `stay at homes' that were unwilling to adventure out of the
settled regions of the Imperium.  What has really happened is merely that,
with TNE, GDW has expanded their *support* for this type of area - only the
way they've chosen to do so has been at the *expense* of the established
areas of the campaign.  ("We had to destroy it to save it.").

What does the TNE background offer over a campaign booklet set in an area
coreward of the Vargr Extents, rimward of the Solomani Sphere, spinward of
the Hierate and Consulate, or trailward of the Hive?  IMHO, other than the
*deus ex machina* of the Virus, not much.  Are there other opinions?

>   One of the biggest complaints about the Rebellion period was that it
> quickly became "the largest spectator event in history".  By comparison,
> Classic Traveller was going nowhere, doing nothing.  An ambitious
> referee could chart his own major events for two reasons: the developed
> parts of the Imperium were its frontiers, not the important stuff
> around Capital; and there were no other major events that had to be
> conformed to.  Every group has its own Imperium from that period.
>   Then came the Rebellion, and MegaTraveller.  Most of us old Classic
> players can remember the cold shiver we got when Traveller's Digest
> #9 hit the stands: "Emperor Strephon Assassinated!"  We knew, even
> then, that "our" Imperium had been taken away from us.  Most of us
> looked on as MT supplements appeared, moving the Rebellion forward
> while leaving us behind.  No more home-cooked "major" events; here
> was the future plotted in detail.

I concur with James here almost completely, but . . .

>   Finally came the news: The New Era.  DGP retreats in disarray. GDW
> takes back Traveller.  There was much rejoicing... But what's this?
> GDW says they're going to finish the job the Rebellion started, and
> tear down the Imperium completely.  70 YEARS?!?  Caused by a COMPUTER
> VIRUS?  Thus we arrive at today.  What is different from MT, you
> ask?  Here we sit while GDW puts on the "Let's Rebuild the
> Imperium" show.
>   Unlikely. At best. Recall, those of you who have the material, that
> the Spinward Marches were settled by the expanding Third Imperium
> in the 300's!  This was during an era of optimistic expansion and
> exploration, with no Virus to slow them down. Three HUNDRED years
> from Capital to Regina.  In this light, I don't think the maps will
> change much, except to get more informative, unless GDW keeps
> the calendar going breakneck.  Lines of communication will open
> within the first 40 or 50 years sufficient to allow the historical
> quotes in the TNE book, but actual sovereign borders will change
> very slowly.  Pocket Empires will boom to a point, then discover that
> quarantine is impossible on an expanding border. The RCES makes no
> bones about expansion, but suffers the same problems of secure
> borders.  The Regency won't advance a single parsec without extensive
> cleansing operations and establishment of new links in the Quarantine
> Line, and will reach the trailing end of Corridor to face the realities
> of a Line that is not just advancing, but expanding as well. All while
> recalling that the Line is held by charisma-happy Vargr in places
> beyond the Regency's control. Enough to give a Regent nightmares.
>   No, the map will not change quickly.  And when it does, there will
> always be areas of the Third Imperium that will not come under the new
> flag for centuries or more. Pick the right spot for your campaign and
> have no interference from GDW, major events or no, for 50-150 years.
> I strongly suspect that the interior of the Regency will be one of
> those areas, barring initial development for the New Era.  Each
> group can have "its own" New Era, knowing (and caring) only that
> the universe gets a little bigger, and a little more Virus-free,
> with each passing year.

A good description of the potential offered by TNE, but not all that
different in effect from that offered by a CT/MT "Core/Rim/Spin/Trailward
Sourcebook".


Tom O'Neill <tom@csvax1.ucc.ie> says:
 
> Concerning the TNE setting, its strengths are its weaknesses. The major
> advantages of TNE over CT/MT are (a) no knowledge of previous history is
> necessary, reducing the amount of reading for new players; (b) apart from
> the Regency, everywhere is a frontier zone ripe for re-exploration and 
> rediscovery;

Again, the same would hold for a `frontier' CT/MT campaign.

> (c) the Virus, although mostly under control, is still an
> ever-present threat and has massively reduced automation, putting
> emphasis back
> on the skills of people.

Hmmm, an interesting point but not one that I've encountered.  I don't
quite see how the background itself would do this (take away or add
emphasis on character skills).  Isn't that more a function of `the rules'
and referee interpretation?  I'd like to hear more on this point.

> The disadvantages are that (a) previous history and 
> technology is changed, to the detriment of continuity for some campaigns;

And a `frontier' sourcebook would have avoided this.

> (b) apart from the Recency, nowhere is really safe as everywhere is a
> frontier
>  zone; (c) the Virus is a flagrant Plot Device

Sort of like all those orc-filled holes in the ground from D&D, isn't it?

> and questions such as 
> whether something as complicated as a starship could be operated by
> manual 
> control with minimal computer assistance are ignored.(I can just see the
> astrogator tapping in the millions of parameters for a jump from one
> computer
> to another by hand without any mistakes(no error-checking, that would be
> too
> dangerous) :-).

Well, this seems to be a rules-oriented point which, not having the TNE
rules, I can't comment on.  It would seem though that sophonts might be
able to effectively compensate for a lack of automation - Herbert's *Dune*
universe comes to mind as a good example.  

> GDW seem eager to encourage a "Merc 2000 in outer
> space" mentality in an attempt to attract new players. They are a
> business and
> want to make a profit, so that is their right. They are also more
> comfortable
> with wargames than with RPG's and wish to stick to their area of
> expertise.
> Anyone who seeks a non-military style of play will probably have to do
> most of
> the work in setting up such a campaign themselves. Still, now we're stuck
> with
> it, and live must go on.

So if I liked Twilight:2000 and wasn't creative enough to move it into
outer space myself I should buy TNE, right?

> "Return from the Dark Ages" campaign could be very interesting, depending
> on
> how it was run.

Yes, it would.  And an "After the Nth Stellar War" sourcebook (remember the
article "Prologue: Adventures in the Imperium's Past" from JTAS?)
would have done the same without condeming the entire Imperium universe to
destruction.  Of course, such a sourcebook wouldn't have kept us coming
back to the game store as easily to find out what was happening next in the
campaign.
 

Lionheart \|/ <u9019138@athmail1.causeway.qub.ac.uk> says:
 
> Our gaming group consists of two factions. The newbies and those who
> know who Strephon is/was.
> The new era has allowed me to reconcile these groups without
> frustrating the oldies too much. The newbies play HIver techs and
> Thugs etc and the others play Pre-Collapse Revenants.

I know I'm sounding like a broken record, but a `frontier' sourcebook
would have done the same.

> The old Empire wasn't alive the way TNE is.

How so?  What do you mean, specifically?  I assume you're not talking about
District 268, Trojan Reach, or the Far Frontiers?

> The Imperium
> has a wealth of background and what isnt there can be created by
> those people who are inventive enough.

Yes, except that TNE makes that all obsolete, but to what end?  What do I
get for throwing all that stuff in the trash?

> I was cowed when I played Traveller with other groupos
> though..especially at Conventions. Rules are made ot be broken but
> those old timers who didnt like the new RULES system were also
> determined to give the background a good dig as well. 
> I feel the system is an improvement. Old timers dont have to play it
> and they don't have to play the new background.

Okay, old timers like me are idiots, but what about that makes the TNE
setting an improved campaign background?

> Isn't that nice of
> GDW to give you a choice.

Not much of a choice as I see it.  There's no equivalent to "Classic Coke"
being offered as far as I know.  At least, not yet.  :-)

> You KNEW what is was going to be
> like...from the release of Survival Margin...you knew the system was
> going to be amalgamated with Twilight and dark Conspiracy. 
> You didnt have to buy it.

Yup, I knew it.  And I didn't.  (I guess I could have done what Clayton
Williams, former Texas Republican gubernatorial hopeful, advised when faced
with a particularly abhorrent situation, "If it's inevitable, you might as
well lie back and enjoy it.")


Anthony "K." Baggaley <mcdapab@prawn.ch.umist.ac.uk> says (of the Virus):

> What is it?2- depending on peoples point of view, it is also-
>   1) a way to turn Traveller into a 'Dark Future' RPG

You're not suggesting that it's not really Traveller any more at all, are
you?

>   2) a way to release a new Traveller set that didn't need new 
>      players to learn the whole Imperial background (destroying
>      90% of it may have rather overdone the idea)

Another case for the `frontier' sourcebook?
 
> like most
> Traveller players (I suspect) I've stuck with it because of the
> background, not the rules.

Me too.  :-)
 
> As for the merits of various backgrounds, the only 'merit' I can 
> see in TNE is that the 'area of interest' i.e. the area that the
> published background covers, is less 'civilised'. PCs have more of
> a chance to act as bloodthirsty criminals and get away with it, with
> smaller governments or no government in most areas. It has an
> advantage- with all these smaller ponds PCs have more chance to be
> big fish, which should suit some people and could be interesting
> if they use this power for anything other than stealing chickens.
> However, most Arses background I've seen implies they prefer to
> 'shoot people with big guns'- I get the impression it's this that's
> making TNE so popular (not on this mature list of course :>)
>  That you could do all this in CT, just outside of the Imperium,
> means TNE has no real improvement over CT. But, again, it depends
> who you ask...

I guess I'm playing Anthony's tune.  So here's some late breaking news for
all you TNE-devotee's out there.  Have you heard about the latest upcoming
release from GDW for Traveller?  It's a completely new and improved
campaign background called "Dragonlance . . . , er, I mean "Brillant Lances
 . . . , no, wait, it's . . . well, we don't have a name for it yet, but
it's a great improvement over TNE, state-of-the-art in role-playing, etc.,
etc.

You'll get your turn.  Everyone's money's the same color.  And remember,
you heard it here first.  ;-)


And finally, rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger) says:
 
> To me, the word "Traveller" evokes thoughts and feelings of...
>     DANGER!                 FACING THE ENEMY!
>         ACTION!                DEATH DEFYING FEATS!
>             ADVENTURE!             LARGER-THAN-LIFE HEROES!
>                  EXCITMENT!             LIFE-THREATENING SITUATIONS!
>     MYSTERY                    INTRIGUE              EVENTS
>         COMBAT                    REVENGE                ENCOUNTERS
>             SEARCH & RESCUE           GREED                  SCENARIOS
>                 CAT & MOUSE               GLORY                SITUATIONS
>      GOOD GUYS
>          BAD GUYS
>              UGLY GUYS
>                  BEAUTIFUL WOMEN IN SKIMPY OUTFITS!
>                      (just kidding)
> In a word, "roleplaying."
>   
>                           Answer the call to
>                                                                          !!
>      A      DDD   V       V EEEE  N   N  TTTTTTT U    U  RRRR   EEEE    !!!!
>     A A     D  D   V     V  E     NN  N     T    U    U  R   R  E       !!!!
>    A   A    D   D   V   V   EEE   N N N     T    U    U  R R R  EEE      !!
>   AA A AA   D  D     V V    E     N  NN     T    U    U  R  R   E
>  A       A  DDD       V     EEEE  N   N     T     UUUU   R   R  EEEE     !!

Which seems like a good point to move this discussion forward.  So let's talk
about the current background.  I don't have TNE so I'm not all that familiar
with it's setting.  I gather that the `Regency' (same as the RCES?) is what
the Domain of Deneb has become with ruling authority held based upon some
claim to regency for the Third Imperium.  (Was that boy Avery involved?)  The
Hivers seem to have some sort of technological advantage.  (Didn't they help
create the damn Virus in the first place?)  What happend to the other Factions
 - all destroyed by the Virus?  And the major aliens?  So where are campaigns
taking place now?  All in the Regency?  (Gee, adventure and discovery in the
Spinward Marches.  Now isn't that original!)  I guess there are also these
Pocket Empires.  Little subsector-sized remnants of the `autonomous polities'
that managed to survive the Rebellion, Hard Times, and the onslaught of the
Virus?  What do PCs do in TNE?  Lurch around in their jury-rigged starship
*Orcslayer* bashing vampire ships all day?  Do tell!

Thanks again to everyone for your honest participation.  I've enjoyed this.
And please, don't anyone take offense.  My sarcasm is meant all in good fun.
I apologize if I've offended any eyes.  Please let me know directly if you 
have a specific beef with something I've said.  (Yes, even you Mr. Gygax.)

Peace,

David Johnson
<It's my opinion and mine alone.>


- ----- End Included Message -----


------------------------------

Bundle: 556
Archive-Message-Number: 6996
From: psualum@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 94 16:32:53 EST
Subject: errata & wish list

Many thanks to Edward Swatschek and  James Kundert, among others,
for their responses to my questions.  I hadn't read through FF&S
and even now have not run through a gauss design. Interesting
that although sand caster cannisters are well described in FFS
(as is appropriate) but barely mentioned in passing in the TNE
manual.

Re Roger Sanger's TRAVELLER WISH-LIST I certainly agree with the
Traveller on CD (altho I still don't have one) and would like to
see a starship deckplan software product that would have the ship
stats plus would permit the plans to be printed when needed with
as many copies as are required.  Most of his other wish list
ideas are excellent but I personally have little interest in the
bibliography and photo album he mentioned.


Peter B. Juzyk                If at first you don't succeed . . .
                                 then read the directions.


- ----------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Bundle: 556
Archive-Message-Number: 6997
From: b.woods6@genie.geis.com
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 94 06:44:00 BST
Subject: Re: Technology BOGGLE!!!

 
 In Archive-Message-Number 6993, u9019138@athmail1.causeway.qub.ac.uk
 (Matt Johnston) writes:
 
 >>The new background severely cripples the technology that I have
 >>become accustomed to.
 >
 >The solution here is then not to dwell on being Star Vikings from ye
 >Olde Mudball worshipping a semi-sentient Air/raft but to dwell on
 >being Regency marines...or High tech dudes.
 
     I'm afraid that you've missed my central point.  You see, I want
the high technology to be *everywhere*.  To be *consistent*.  I want my
environment to be without low-tech places.  Back when I started playing
Traveller (14 years ago--where's my cane?), I created my own region of
space outside the Imperium where the absolute lowest tech level was 13,
and ranged as high as an extrapolated 17.  The average was right about
15.
 
     My main gripe with the new setting is that the *average* tech level
is far too low, and there are places that have no decent technology at
all.  It's not that there are too many low-tech worlds, it's that they
exist at all.  There should be *no* low technology at all.
 
     That's why I may use the new rules system (with the appropriate
fixes to improve the technology), but the new background is of less than
zero use to me.
 
     I won't have Star Vikings, or RCES, or the Regency, for that
matter, because in my game, the Third Imperium never fell.  Strephon is
still alive and well and on the Iridium Throne, there was no Rebellion
(Dulinor stayed home and was happy with what he had, dammit), and no
Virus.
 
- --
     Brent Woods
 
     INTERNET:  b.woods6@genie.geis.com (preferred) and
                ioc!bwoods@attmail.com
     USNAIL:    4419 Myrtle Grove Dr.  /  Indianapolis IN  46236
     MABELL:    +1 (317) 895-8690
 

------------------------------

Bundle: 556
Archive-Message-Number: 6998
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 01:06:00 -0800
From: Dane Johnson <dane@halcyon.com>
Subject: Ye Gods!


Re: TML of 3/17...
Now that is what I call venting your spleen!

Several points in no particular order:

1)  The New Era has added no real frontier to Traveller.  Instead, it
has reduced a well populated and civilized area to relative barbarism.
The Imperium was spread over a few thousand star systems.  There are
*trillions* of stars in the Milky Way galaxy.  Traveller's Known Space
is pathetically small.  All that was necessary to add new frontier was
some 'beyond the Imperium' source ideas, as was already pointed out by
someone else...  There was no lack of frontier, just a lack of people
generating their own sectors away from the main action.

2)  The New Era has less diversity than CT/MT.  Tech levels are more
uniform (and lower).  More worlds are balkanized.  Most have lower law
levels.  Many are now unpopulated.  In general, a subsector's worth of
New Era planets offers less diversity than an equal volume of CT/MT
worlds.

3)  The New Era or some other collapse-oriented scenario was hardly an
inevitable outcome of the Rebellion.  Did the US fall into a Dark Age
after the Civil War or the Assasination of Kennedy?  I, personally, was
looking forward to a 'balkanized' Imperium, with Deneb, Antares, the
Vilani, the Solomani, et al becoming small, soveriegn, human-dominated
nations.  Many other outcomes were possible, none inevitable.

4)  Rules & Realism vs. 'True' Role Playing -- This topic is a real candidate
for a flamewar, but I think that both sides are nearly equally important
to a good RPG.  Traveller has 'limped' along for many years with, in
many ways, a very small rules set.  Although the design sequences for
Starships in High Guard may take a half-an-hour, combat can be picked up
in about a minute and the number of rules for design and combat
combined take up a 52 page book (with half-sized pages!).  Profit seems
to be the primary motive for the current volume of rules, although a sheer
love of tables and charts on the part of the writing staff undoubtedly
contributes.  I like a reasonably complex rules system.  Not overly
simplified, nor overly complex.  Likewise, I like a reasonably detailed
background, but not to the point that I have no room for personal
innovation.  Traveller, IMHO, has historically been good at providing
these qualities.  Simple, modularly expandable rules, with the large
political and historical details worked out.  A planet here or there
described in detail and the rest left up to the players.  I do not feel
that the current GDW products are providing the same sort of balance.

In conclusion, I quote the old adage, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
The Imperium was not broken.  At worst, it needed some tuning.  It is
now dead, and it deserved far better treatment from the GDW game design
group.  When Traveller was 'handed' to them, so was a certain amount of
trust, which I feel has been betrayed.  Traveller:TNE seems much more a
hybrid of Twilight:2000 and 2300AD than it does a refurbished Traveller.
Making it Traveller instead of 2300AD:TNE or Twilight:5700 seems to have
gained GDW mostly the ill will of many established and dyed in the wool
Traveller afficionados.  The new people attracted to the game do not
appreciate the past history of the Imperium and would not miss it if it
were not there, while those of us who liked the Imperium feel it's loss
keenly.

Strephon Lives,

Dane "Antares Veen" Johnson
djohnson@willamette.edu   dane@halcyon.edu

TNS Stringer ------ Terra/Solomani Rim (1827 G867975-8)
"My opinions are those of my fuzz-brained, cat-sniffing Norwegian Elkhound."

------------------------------

Bundle: 556
Archive-Message-Number: 6999
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 12:29:24 BST
From: tom@csvax1.ucc.ie
Subject: RE: Trav Background, automation, people

In our last episode of "TNE Background : An Analysis"
djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson) said:
> 
> Tom O'Neill <tom@csvax1.ucc.ie> says:
>  
> > Concerning the TNE setting, its strengths are its weaknesses. The major
> > advantages of TNE over CT/MT are (a) no knowledge of previous history is
> > necessary, reducing the amount of reading for new players; (b) apart from
> > the Regency, everywhere is a frontier zone ripe for re-exploration and 
> > rediscovery;
> 
> Again, the same would hold for a `frontier' CT/MT campaign.

True. TNE was not necessary for this.
> 
> > (c) the Virus, although mostly under control, is still an
> > ever-present threat and has massively reduced automation, putting
> > emphasis back on the skills of people.
> 
> Hmmm, an interesting point but not one that I've encountered.  I don't
> quite see how the background itself would do this (take away or add
> emphasis on character skills).  Isn't that more a function of `the rules'
> and referee interpretation?  I'd like to hear more on this point.

In fact I think the rules of CT and MT did say in certain places that the
emphasis should be on people and the skills of people. One reason Trav's
computers have always have been Neanderthals is to avoid the "Star Trek
Computer" problem of the PC's saying "Computer, solve this incredibly
complex problem" and the computer replying "Sure, no problem". Maybe 
this is a rules point as well, but what is possible in a setting limits 
the adventures that may be run for it. TNE produces a situation where
there are (by logical deduction) far less safety features in equipment
than in the Imperium days. When a PC tries something dangerous there
probably won't be a fail-safe to bail her out of trouble. It will be
more dangerous than the pre-Imperium situation, but except for relics
this will just redefine the definitions of what is dangerous and what is
possible. Just think of all the computer-assisted equipment which has been
brain-damaged (ie virus-proofed) in the TNE setting, and it becomes clear
that a lot of previously routine tasks are so no longer. This means that
the players can be forced to do the work without depending on "toys",
and without having to carefully plot to make their technological "toys"
ineffective, as it is built into the background.

You are right in that this is a 'referee interpretation' thing. It is all
very well saying that so-and-so makes PC's skills more important, but it
all depends on how the referee runs things. If the plot demands that the
PCs must do something, they will generally do it, regardless of 
consistency.
> 
>> The disadvantages are that (a) previous history and 
>> technology is changed, to the detriment of continuity for some campaigns;
> 
> And a `frontier' sourcebook would have avoided this.
> 
>> (b) apart from the Recency, nowhere is really safe as everywhere is a
>> frontier
>>  zone; (c) the Virus is a flagrant Plot Device
> 
> Sort of like all those orc-filled holes in the ground from D&D, isn't it?
> 
>> and questions such as 
>> whether something as complicated as a starship could be operated by
>> manual control with minimal computer assistance are ignored.(I can just 
>> see the astrogator tapping in the millions of parameters for a jump 
>> from one computer to another by hand without any mistakes(no 
>> error-checking, that would  be too dangerous) :-).
> 
> Well, this seems to be a rules-oriented point which, not having the TNE
> rules, I can't comment on.  It would seem though that sophonts might be
> able to effectively compensate for a lack of automation - Herbert's *Dune*
> universe comes to mind as a good example.  

My above comment was exagerrating slightly. Traveller has historically 
jumped through hoops to outlaw automated starships. Starships had to
have a full crew to push buttons and be bored stiff for a week. Jump 
torpedoes disappeared, AI's were unstable (The Kinunir etc.). And now 
with the Virus we discover that starships can run themselves and maintain
themselves, but only if they are bloodthirsty maniacs.

This is a rules-and-technology oriented point, but one that annoyed one of
my players in a now-hibernating campaign. He was interested in starships
only as a means of transport, and resented the requirement of a full crew
a ship which should have been able to fly itself most of the time. For
other players, the starship was the only constant in the game, and they
wanted to know how the hunk of metal they were trusting their lives to
worked. Once this information is defined it does affect plots, and the
things the PC's attempt to do.

The *Dune* point is interesting - I would interpret Dune's technology as
being based on psionics and genetic engineering. This is a real shift
from the mainstream Imperium culture, and would involve an entirely
different mindset. It is an interesting idea for a culture with psionics
and psionic star travel that entirely abandoned computers (or perhaps it
subsequently developed psionic star travel).
                                                    Tom

  Tom O'Neill  |   Tom@CSVAX1.UCC.IE        SCCS6085@IRUCCVAX.UCC.IE 
- ---------------!--------------------------------------------------------------
                    Fact is stranger than fiction

------------------------------

Bundle: 556
Archive-Message-Number: 7000
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 09:02:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: S_DMOODY@pstcc.cc.tn.us
Subject: Traveller Backgrounds and Adventures


Forgive me if this is long, but, after all, it was asked for...

 In Archive-Message-Number 6958, djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David
 Johnson) writes:
 >Are there any folks out there who are more interested in campaign
 >background rather than rules and such?

	Absolutely.  However, the rules and such serve to shape the background. 
I cant play Star Trek using Traveller rules since the tech base is so
different.  The rules are a framework in which all else resides.  You can
change the frame but not without warping the picture in it.
 
 >Is there anyone else who thinks discussions about weapon penetration,
 >craft design, and planetary science is a little moot in a
 >two-dimensional universe?

	Nope.  The only 2D universe I see is the post-virus TNE Imperium.  Now
theres a flat universe if I've ever seen one.:)
	Actually, I've rationalized the 2D maps (yes, I can rationalize things
too, just not as good...).  WARNING: this is a load of Vargr's Kidneys:
	UNREALITY MODE---ON!
	The 2D maps are maps of space showing the relationships of starts
- -according to their positions in jump space-.  To wit: space has three Ds and
time.  In jump space, the only things that matter are direction and time
(that is jump-time or J rating).  The 2D map shows direction (in a j-space
analogy of sperical coords, ie: so many over, so many up) and time in J ratings
(jump 1, jump 2,) as physical distance.
	Actually, this explination tears my little CS/physics studying brain to
shreads, but that hasn't stopped me from playing Traveller.

Also, rodge@cyberspace.com asks:
>What adventures have you run lately?
>Any cool stories to tell?
>How did your players wriggle free from the grasp of death?  Or
>did they die wimpering on the end of a spit?

	Some people just don't know what they're asking...:)

	Ok, here goes:
	Our campaign has been on hold for several months due to the fact that
one of our players has exercises the use of his masters degree to get a real
job.  Unfortunately, he's in New York (we're in Tennessee- the place the Virus
hit hardest).  With luck, he'll be back next week (spring break) and we'll
resolve his character out of the picture (he'll go home) and allow the rest of
the gang to continue.

	Cast of Characters ( and every one of them are, too :))

	Ahz Dueth: Self grandized Vargr captain. Owns 440 ton upgraded Vargr
 coursair.  Unfortunately, his original crew deserted him and he has been
reduced to the life of hioring *HUMANS* to crew his ship, and he's has to give
up some of his finer pleasures in life to carry cargo. Ugh. Decent pilot,
fairly good at the seedier skills (streetwise, etc).  Models himself on
old-Earth pirate documentaires, especiall "The Sea Hawk" and dresses the part. 
Has a gauss pistol shaped to look like a black-powder pistol.  Remember: he's
never been *convicted* of a crime ( something about lack of evidence, or
witnesses disappearing, or *something* like that...) Has started a collection
of 300,000 year old chicken bones (ancient artifacts) and wishs to posses the
last Harley-Davidson in existence (in the Terran Museum of Transportation
History on Luna)

   	Helen: An ex navy rating raised with Vargr.  She's from Corridor Sector
and her family worked in a small mining town owned mostly by Imperial Vargr. 
Their family was one of few living in a city full of Vargr.  Unfortunately, she
seems to think and act like a Vargr sometimes (like the night her and Ahz got
ahold of some Scout's Brew, decided to buy grav-bikes, cricket bats, and rotten
tomatoes and drive down the corridors of Aramis Upstation.  The local law was
NOT pleased, but since no-one was hurt, they merely had to pay damages and
clean up the rotten tomatoe sploches covering most of the main shopping levels.
 My players...:) )  She will be departing from the group sometime next week,
when she recieves a message from her brother.  She is also a follower of St.
Elvoos of Terra, the Bringer of Music and Celebration.

	Margareth : Ex Imperial Navy commander-intelligence.  Had long love
affair with a commanding officer who disappeared right after the 5th Frontier
War (don't tell her, but he's a deep cover spy working for the Zhodani...)  She
comes from a high-noble family on Trin, and has turned out to be quite the
black sheet of the family (something about her family religion- arranged
marriages, etc).  She once had a run in with the Ahz right after the 5FW, when
the light cruiser she commanded stumbled onto one of Ahz's *ahem* creative ways
of aquiring cargo.  High administration/command/computer skills, coupled with
high security clearence.
        
	Marcus : Free trader extraordinaare.  Long time friend of Margareth,
Marcus' own 200 ton freigher is on lease to a subsector line based on Regina. 
(he gets monthly lease payments). Spend most of his young life making money,
got tired of it, and decided to seek out adventure. (Actually, this is my NPC-
allows me to impart knowledge to the characters.  Marcus can get in and out of
any computer ne

	And last but not least, a reoccuring villian..
	Gladia Corachelli (aka Jennifer Qunlin, aka Anna Rebkka, aka a whole
long list): carrer criminal.  This is one of my first CT player characters who
kind of turned on me.  I stopped playing her about 6 years ago when she
murdered her best friend (long story).  Since, she's become an NPC thorn in the
side of many planetary law enforcement agencies.  Currently, she is in a low
berth on the Vargrs ship until Ahz decides what they are going to do with
her(another long story...*sigh*...)

	Current time: 110-1116.  Place: Aramis/Aramis

	First adventure: What do you do when you stumble onto a Zhodani spy
ring?  Go looking for chicken bones?

	Ahz first totally Vargr-like act was this: through her family/military
connections, Margareth knows Norris (when she was little, her father was a good
friend of the Duke).  She called upon him for help/information during the
characters investigation of the Zho spy ring.  Norris gave some help and
information, but in exchange, he asked for the characters to deliver a secret
communique to the Imperial garrison on Esalin (the characters don't know
why...).  The Vargr, enthralled by the charisma of Norris, agreed to perform
the task.  On their second jump from Regina, the Vargr got ahold of a rumor of
300,000 year old chicken bones.  Since Norris was half-a-dozen parsecs away,
Ahz own thoughts kicked in, he decided the only thing asked of him was to
deliver the message, so he dumped the secret communique into the mail, and
changen course.  Instead of jumping for Esalin, they are heading somewhere
else.
	No one else knows  knows this yet...

	This campaign is centered aroung Margareth (although she doesnt know it
yet and her affair with her commander.  Eventually, they will find Margareths
lost love after a runin with Imperial Intelligence, the Ine Givar, the Vargr,
and the Aslan.  During the first chaotic years of the Rebellion and the unknown
war the Zhos are having on their spinward borders, a chance will be found to
rescue her love (she thinks he is working for Imperial Intelligence- she
suspected his psionic abilities during their affair...)  in a deep penetration
raid into Zhodani space. However, the rescue scene will be full of suprises... 
       When will all of this happen?  Well, the first pieces have already been
put into place (we've played about five adventures so far, just barely
scratching the surface of the Zho spy ring), but its a very free form campaign. 
Most of the session start with me asking "OK, where are you going to go next?",
then I wing about 75% of it.  We're playing again next Wednesday (Happy, Happy!
Joy, Joy!)
       
				In service to the Imperium
					-Vanya 


------------------------------

Bundle: 556
Archive-Message-Number: 7001
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 10:49:23 -0500 (EST)
From: "Alexander W. Holt" <awh2@crux4.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject: Jumpstart & Longbow

Could someone please tell me what Jumpstart & Longbow are?   I a was 
reading some tml bundles and was wondering what they mean to my campaign 
in the regency.  Thanks all.

						Alex

------------------------------

Bundle: 556
Archive-Message-Number: 7002
From: falameezar@aol.com
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 94 12:44:00 EST
Subject: Re: #1(2) TML nightly: Msgs 6...

Please take me off the  mailing list

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 94 22:00:03 EST
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #557: Msgs 7003-7008 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Sun Mar 20 22:00:02 EST 1994
Reply-To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Errors-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Mar 94 22:00:03 EST
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #557: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 557  7003 18-Mar-1994 David Johnson    TNE Background 2 << Gentlesophonts:
 557  7004 18-Mar-1994 Bruce E Johnson  Re: Rock as a hull material <<        N
 557  7005 18-Mar-1994 Glenn Myers      TNE vs. CT backgrounds << Hi All,
 557  7006 18-Mar-1994 Gregg Giles      Need addresses of Kallenbach, Rapp << W
 557  7007 18-Mar-1994 Roger Sanger     Time for some adventure... <<  
 557  7008 19-Mar-1994 tcraig@nasccs.n  Back in the saddle << My fine fellows,

------------------------------

Bundle: 557
Archive-Message-Number: 7003
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 94 13:39:56 CST
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: TNE Background 2

Gentlesophonts:

Ah, the discussion continues!  I'll bet if I took my survey of postings
for the second half of March we'd have a much more balanced discussion.
Now on to Thursday night's contributions.
 
rdawson@business.carleton.ca (Ron Dawson) writes:
  
> After a while though I've
> come to believe that the Imperium had to be killed.  
> MT and CT has explained away much of the mystery of the ancients, and as
> others have said, there were few frontiers.  The only really interesting
> exploration seemed to be part of the Zhodhani core expiditions.  Of the
> frontier and ancients mysteries, the ancients "history" particularly
> bothered me.  Am I alone, or does the grandfather story sound lame?  I
> never liked that story line, and it ruined the "ancient" mystery for me.

I thought Grandfather was dumb too.  In fact the whole idea of the Ancients
was just too much of a gimmick for my tastes (like the Virus), but TNE
hasn't elimiated Ancient technology, although I guess we don't know yet
for certain how it has been affected by the Virus.  I guess the point is
there isn't anything about TNE that improves this situation (assuming you're
like Ron and me and feel it had some room for improvement).

There could have been *Imperial* Core Expeditions (possibly in cooperation
with the Zhos? Or maybe a `core race'?), as well as Spin, Trail and Rim
Expeditions.  A Solomani Rebellion would have added just as much bloodshed
and mayhem as the Imperial Rebellion and might even have produced a more
sympathetic regime on the Homeworld of Humaniti (and weren't the Solomani
apparatchiks just the sort of *universal bad guys* that the Virus now is?).

This isn't `whining for the old days'.  The point I'm trying to make is that,
so far, *all* of the advantages claimed for TNE *from a background point of
view* could have been accomplished in the Imperium campaign.  Given this
fact(?), why should anyone buy TNE except that it's the only `game' in town?
If the only car available was a Yugo would everyone not only rush out to buy
one but also be clamoring about how great it was?  (Again, this ignores
issues related to the rules system.)

> So, there was no mystery, and the imperium seemed impregnable. 
> With the TNE setting, the entire imperium is a mystery outside of the
> Spinward Marches or whatever little pocket empire you use as your
> setting.

I think it was established last night that the above is only relevant for
those who were unwilling to venture beyond the developed regions of the
Imperium.

> We don't know what the jeck the black curtain is.

Black curtain?  Do tell!

> We don't
> know what happened to the Solomani.

Maybe they're now the United Federation of Planets?  :-)

> We don't really know what's going
> on in the Aslan Hierate.

Maybe they're exporting compact gravcars and becomming an economic
superpower?  :-)

> There is a lot of mystery out there, lots of
> stuff to work with.

If `out there' means *only* Gushemege, Dagudashaag, Core, Zarushagar,
Ilelish, Diaspora, Daibei, and the rest of the developed regions of the
Old Imperium.


"Susan M. Shock" <34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> writes:

> I'm a little ticked off at the TNE rules, but I have no beef with the
> setting.

Okay, so `having no beef' with something is a good enough reason to buy it?
I would like to know, still, what is *better* about the TNE setting.

> Also, a lot of people have been complaining that TNE is just T:2000 in
> space
> and I submit that this has to do with emphasis placed by the players and
> the GM
> in the campaign, In my campaign, the Star Vikings are an EXPLORATORY force.
> They view themselves as descendants of the IISS. They are combat-trained,
> yes,
> and they aren't afraid to use that training, especially when pursuing their
> secondary goal of recovering lost technology, but reexploration and
> rediscovery
> is the primary emphasis

The point about the attitudes of refs and players is an excellent one.
This is the first opinion I've heard that has expressed something
other than the `post-holocaust' attitude of TNE.  Maybe we're on to
something here.  But again, I must ask, what is `better' about playing
the Star Vikings as descendants of the IISS than playing true Scouts on
an Imperial Core Expedition or some such thing?  Or if you don't like
the idea of TL15 explorers how about scouts from a smaller, lower TL
state somewhere on the frontier of the Imperium setting?  There was an
excellent article in *Gryphon* (I believe) several years ago in which
Mark Miller (we miss you) discussed an `ideal' Traveller campaign
setting: a small federation somewhere beyond the fringes of the Imperium.
(And he didn't have to destroy the entire universe to find it!)

> I think the griping about the changes in the Traveller universe tech is
> about 50% legit and 50% simple complaining by people who can't tolerate
> change.

Another good point.  But change just for the sake of change (especially
when I have to get up off my wallet to do so) doesn't sound like such
a good thing to me.  That's why I've posed the question "what about the
TNE setting is an improvement over previous eras?".

 
Joni M Virolainen <jonimv@evitech.fi> writes:
 
> In CT the Imperium is stable maybe slowly
> expanding and there is lot of Hi-Tech in contrast to TNE where is lot to
> expand and little Hi-Tech readily available.

Here's an important point.  If you like the instability and unknown of TNE
you can have it on the frontiers of the Imperium campaign, but if you liked
the stability and civilization of the Imperium you're pretty much SOL in
TNE.  Choice?  Something for everyone?  Doesn't look like it.
 
> I have to admit that I run a Star Viking campaign but I *hope* that this is 
> only a bridge to something greater. I keep thinking that because I doubt that
> my players or me can find long-term fun from exploring and recontaction 
> worlds. Maybe GDW publishes material conserning RC's "developed" planets.

So, if I'm undestanding this point, that `something greater' would be a
`stable, advanced' region akin to the Old Imperium.  And if this is what
someone enjoys about Traveller then the place to find it in TNE is the
Regency.  So maybe TNE *does* still have something for everyone.  Maybe it
is *as good* as previous eras, but *better*?  No one's convinced me yet.
 
 
A.S.Lilly@bnr.co.uk (Andy Lilly) writes:

> You don't need the rebellion or TNE hard times as background. The original
> Imperium gave you plenty of scope for adventure, action, etc. I guess some
> people just don't look hard enough...

This is just Andy's conclusion.  He makes an excellent case in several
preceding paragraphs.  See last night's posting for the whole thing.

> In answer, yes, lets have more background... I've got complete written records
> of every adventure I have run for my two Traveller groups, but they're a bit
> big just to download and they don't include the referee's details of each
> scenario. Perhaps some day I'll write another book about one

Maybe Rodge and Andy want to get together and set this up?


Lionheart \|/ <u9019138@athmail1.causeway.qub.ac.uk> writes:

>  Brent  <b.woods6@genie.geis.com> writes...
> 
> >Well, no.  Not for me, anyway.  Technology has always been the
> >primary focus of my interest in Science Fiction.  The new background
> >severely cripples the technology that I have become accustomed to.
> 
> The solution here is then not to dwell on being Star Vikings from ye Olde
> Mudball worshipping a semi-sentient Air/raft but to dwell on being Regency
> marines...or High tech dudes.

I won't speak for Brent, but the question for me is: "Is a new campaign
that creates `problems' that need a `solution' much of an improvement?".

> The Virus so far has been seen as a destructive thing. Making people wary of
> technology...with the viral mutations you can have your Blakes 7 ORAC only
> smarter on board. Robots which are fully self aware. Technology designed by a
> super advanced AI...

Hey!  This is good!  I must admit I admire this sort of creativity.  (Even
if, ultimately, the idea of `good' viral mutations is just another
gimmick like Ancients technology - and not much of a basis for an entire
campaign.)

> Like Rodge said...when I think of TNE I think of wild-eyed
> loners standing at the gates of oblivion who havent told their
> parents what time they would be home for...

A great image!  :-)
 
> The saddest thing about losing the Imperium is that NEWBIES
> will not be able to get their mitts on the really old
> stuff..the background that I loved. Snippets are fine but the
> whole thing is much more satisfying. It's mostly gone now
> though if sufficient interest were spouted I'm sure someone if
> no GDW would produce a background pack for the new era...just
> for newbies who still want to play Pre-Collapse Revenants
> which IMHO is one of the most fun roles to play..

Let's hope the marketing department at GDW is listening.  :-)
If they keep to their guns with `New Coke' at least there's  still
hope for a `Classic Coke' licensing argreement.

Okay, after two rounds, here's the score as I see it.  Not much to recommend
TNE over previous eras except that you don't have to venture outside the
core of the Old Imperium (which allows you to `rediscover' worlds you were
familar with 70+ years ago) and the possibility of new `wonder gadgets'
derived from positive viral mutations.

And of course we've been ignoring one very important point.  It's much more
difficult for a game company to introduce a new product (you know, like
`new and improved Tide') that's basically just a repackaging of an exisiting
rules system without some corresponding `improvement' in the campaign
setting.  I realize that GDW is a business and thay have every right to
pursue their business interests as they see fit.  But I'm a consumer and
I've got my own interests - *and I'd like to buy some new Traveller
products*!  But I'm not going to buy anything they throw at me and so
far this is all TNE seems.  Is there anyone out there who would buy TNE
*for the background* (not the rules) if some sort of comparably priced
`Frontier Sourcebook' was on the shelf next to it?  If so, tell us why.
And if you wouldn't buy TNE over this `Sourcebook' but you bought
it because that's all there is, do you drive a Yugo?  :-)

Ding!  Ding!  Round 3!

David Johnson

------------------------------

Bundle: 557
Archive-Message-Number: 7004
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 13:55:16 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce E Johnson <bej@gas.uug.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Rock as a hull material

       Neat Ideas Dept (stolen section): #3452A12-7

	In an old Niven book, in the Known Space series, he described a 
rather neat idea for making large space colonies via rather low tech 
methods.  Get one very large chunk of aluminized mylar, form into a 
parabolic mirror, and attatch maneuvering devices.  Presto, one asteroid 
scale solar welder.  Use it to melt a large hole into the center of an 
asteroid (rock or iron based will work)  Allow to cool.  fill hole with 
water, weld another chunk of asteroid on top of the hole.  Now start the 
asteroid spinning, and heat evenly and gently.  Eventually the compressed 
steam form the water will puff the mostly molten asteroid out like a 
balloon.  Instant large, centrifugally stable, hollow structure.  
Probably only need a few thousand or so patches and it'll be air tight.

	All you have to do is spin it slowly enough that the surface 
tension and viscosity of the molten rock/metal of the asteroid is enough 
to counteract the effects of rotation, so you don't have blobs flying off 
toward's your (really) fragile mirror.  

	Yes, I know, there's probably a million reasons you minutiae
freaks out there (and you know who you are ;-) could find to give me why
this wouldn't work, but, what the hey, they use FTL don't they?

	Besides, asteroids are cheap, you could have lots to practice on!

	Bruce Johnson
	The University of Arizona
	bej@gas.uug.arizona.edu play
	johnson@tonic.pharm.arizona.edu work

	My opininons, Mine, Mine, all Mine!  Bwahahahaha!
 


------------------------------

Bundle: 557
Archive-Message-Number: 7005
From: Glenn Myers <gem188@swanson.com>
Subject: TNE vs. CT backgrounds
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 94 16:02:49 EST



Hi All,

I'd like to comment on the TNE vs. CT/MT backgrounds postings. 

rdawson@business.carleton.ca (Ron Dawson) writes:

>Well... when I first realized that GDW was killing the Imperium and much
>of known space and history, I was shocked.  After a while though I've
>come to believe that the Imperium had to be killed.

While I agree that the official campaign needed change, the rebellion
certainly provided it. I think a very interesting history could have
come out of the rebuilding and reforming of the various post-rebellion
factions. There would be lots of political intrigue and conflict as 
the powers worked out their roles. The resulting map would be more
interesting than either the Third Imperium or The New Era.
It would have been much more believable although not as cataclysmic.

The most dramatic traveller event for me was the outbreak of the 
fifth frontier war. The assassination of Strephon and the resulting
rebellion were interesting. The announcement of the virus made me 
sick to the stomach. It was too depressing.

And something like a "baddies from the core" plot device could even 
have brought former enemies together for survival. That would have made 
the rebellion fade by comparison and redeem the participants. Plus, it 
would add much more mystery and discovery than the virus. Who are the
baddies, where have they come from, etc. But, that is all only what 
could have been.

I just hope that Longbow will hasten cleaning up this virus mess so 
we can get back to good wholesome exploration and away from tomb
robbing. 

Why 70 years and not 150-300 years lost between MT and TNE?
We still have to resolve Lucan and the black curtain. You can't leave a
lead like that around and not follow up. Besides, he's the one that
started this virus mess. Someone is ought to pay for this. And you 
have to let gamers bring their charcters over from MT if you want 
to capitalize on past sales.

Personally, I wish they had moved the TNE setting to 250 years after 
the rebellion. By that time technology and culture would have changed
enough that we wouldn't be making as many complaints about rules and
equipment incompatabilities.

As far as I am concerned the TNE background has next to nothing to
offer me. I hope that will change. 


Glenn


- ----------------------------------
| Glenn E. Myers                 |
| gmyers@swanson.com             |
| QA software engineer           |
| Swanson Analysis Systems, Inc. |
| (412) 746-3304 x188            |
- ----------------------------------


------------------------------

Bundle: 557
Archive-Message-Number: 7006
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 94 10:53:03 PST
From: so!ggiles@efn.org (Gregg Giles)
Subject: Need addresses of Kallenbach, Rapp

WANTED:

Email or real-world addresses for the following two people:

   * Charles Kallenbach III
   * Don Rapp

   Chuck and Don ran Paranoia Press in the 80's. If you have a phone number, I 
would greatly appreciate it. Thanks.


- --
   =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
   Gregg Giles       Internet: so!ggiles@efn.org      FidoNet: sysop>1:152/18 
   Sensory Overload (503/484-1281 USR HST DS) Anime VR Techno Digital Highway 

      "I program my home computer, lead myself into the future." -Kraftwerk   
   -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


------------------------------

Bundle: 557
Archive-Message-Number: 7007
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 16:34:42 -0800
From: rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger)
Subject: Time for some adventure...

 
 
After posting that rather loud message on adventuring, I thought I
better put my money where my mouth is.
 
So, here is something I've tried out recently on the hapless
victims I lure -- uh, er -- imaginative players I invite to my
house every Saturday night.
 
 
 
 
                   --------------------------
                   LET'S GO OUT TO THE MOVIES
                   --------------------------
 
So far, I've sprung 3 movie-based scenarios on my players.  Here
is one of them...
 
 
 
 
                    THEY CAME FROM BEYOND
                    ---------------------
 
 
(inspired by INVASION OF THE BODY SNATCHERS)
 
Junidy/Aramis/Spinward Marches, backdated to the year 1053, was
the location of this scenario.  I've embellished the story as
enacted by myself and my players for the sake of reading
enjoyability.  However, the plot-line is essentially the same as
the way it unfolded during our playing session.
 
 
The player characters were:
 
       James L. Tiberius, an ex-cop,
       Baraka "Bugeyes" Lews, his informant,
       Arthur Lawrence Cage, an ex-marine visiting his old friend James.
 
 
World Background:
 
Excerpts from IISS survey records, on file at Junidy Down
Starport, 205/1105:
 
Junidy/Aramis/Spinward Marches (B434ABD-9 S) -- Junidy is a
showcase of the adaptability of sophonts.  It is but a small
world, with an atmosphere too thin to support most life, yet it
is home to more than 28 billion citizens.  Two species of
intelligent being make Junidy their home: Humans, and
Llellewyloly, dividing the world's population roughly in half
between them.
 
Llillewyloly are quintupedal (i.e., they have 5 legs), each leg
ending in a tripod of digits.  The being's legs protrude from its
central hairy body which resembles a big fuzz-ball or the blossom
of a dandelion gone to seed.  Their resemblance to the weed of
Earth-origin is made complete when they stand on a single leg and
fold their remaining legs up under their bodies, flamingo-style.
This is the posture they take when sleeping; it is an evolved
behavioral trait adapted for heat conservation.  Because of their
appearance, the humans of Junidy often call them "dandies" and
"daddy long-legs".  The llellewyloly resent the nicknames, and
regard them as vulgar racial slurs.
 
A llillewyloly's toes serve equally well as fingers, being only
slightly more awkward than a human's manipulators due to their
large size, but making up for it in finesse granted to it by
virtue of having its visual and audio sensory organs in its
stalks and fingers.
 
Llellewyloly (pronounced "yeah-yeah-wee-lolly") are fully adapted
to Junidy's sparse atmosphere, unlike their human counterparts,
who must live in pressurized habitats and use air compressors to
breath outdoors or else quickly suffocate to death.
 
The cities of Junidy provide the primary shelter for the humans
of the world, while most but not all llelleweloly live out in the
country.
 
Junidy is within but a hex or two of the Imperium's coreward
border.  It is often visited by trade enclaves and merchants from
the Vargr Extents from beyond the border, and is a thriving
trading center.  Vargr visitors are often seen wandering the
streets, and many of them have actually made Junidy their home.
 
 
For backdating purposes, as of the year 1053, I estimate the
world's population to have been approximately 18 billion, and its
tech level at about 8 in most areas.
 
 
 
 
The Adventure:
 
Baraka slammed his bony fist down onto his apartment's control
console.  None of his llellewyloly contacts were responding to
his comcalls today, not a single one.  It was like all the
"dandies" just left town or something.
 
It was funny how much information he got from the stringy
quintuped natives of Junidy.  The humans of the world often
disregarded the alien sophonts as they spoke to one another. They
were too bizarre-looking to be intelligent, but they were.  They
may have looked like big dandilions when in their typical
flamingo stance, but they were as intelligent as humans, some
even more so.  Baraka pursed his lips tight in frustration.  No
tips, no dough.  It's how he made his living. He was an
informant.  A street rat.
 
Baraka lived in the Astoria Whaldorf, a run down housing complex
on the edge of the commercial district.  He was home all alone,
and was not enjoying himself.
 
The irritating grating sound of the door buzzer broke the
silence.  Baraka reflexively flipped the com switch on the control
panel before him, and blurted involuntarily "Who is it?"  A rough
monotone voice replied "Big Eddy sent us."
 
Big Eddy was a local crime lord, his men regulary shook down
businesses from Main Street to the Turban Desert Turnpike. Baraka
was in near panic.  This couldn't be!  For probably the first
time in his life, he didn't owe anybody anything, so he had no
idea why Eddy's men were there, unless he had blown his cover.
He protested, "I paid him off last week!"   The vaguely strange
monotone replied through the com, "Big Eddy wants to see you."  A
chill went down Baraka's spine, and his body started to shake.
He didn't want to die.
 
With the fight-or-flight response twisting his gut into knots,
Eddy stumbled across his apartment and retrieved his body pistol
from its hiding place in the wall vent in his bedroom, and put it
in the utility pouch at his waist.  He left the pouch unzipped.
After turning up the thermal control on his jumpsuit, still
shivering he walked over to his apartment's control console and
pushed the "open" button sitting next to the master door switch.
This might be about nothing, and he'd be suspect for sure if he
didn't let them in.  Then again, even if this was it, and he kept
them locked out, they could simply cut their way in with laser
drills and then torture him all the worse for resisting.  Better
that he talk his way out of this one.  He'd done it before, and
he could do it again.  Baraka was as slippery as they came.
 
The doors slid apart and two burly men walked in, dressed in the
planet's customary one-piece jump suits.  Baraka picked up a
printout on kluupa racing odds laying next to the console, forced
a smile, and walked halfway across the room to greet his
unexpected and unwanted guests.
 
"Come with us, Big Eddy wants to see you", said the bigger of the
two men.  Baraka's heart pounded.  This was bad, a standoff may
have been better.  More often than not, people who were brought
before the boss were never seen again.  Baraka noticed they were
not hoisting laser drills.  He grimmaced slightly.  The escorts'
faces were expressionless, their blank stares seemed to pierce
right through him.  Trying to act casual and unconcerned, Baraka
answered "Oh yeah, what about?"  He failed miserably in masking
his nervousness, but his guests didn't seem notice.  He started
spasmodically flipping through the reams of data he was holding
as if it actually interested him.
 
A moment of silence went by, and then the apparent leader of the
duo responded in an almost computer-like voice, "He has some
questions to ask you."  Baraka looked up briefly, and became
accutely aware of the size differential between these two men and
himself -- they were nearly twice his size.  His nose darted back
down into the printout.  "Questions?" he queried, "What
questions?"
 
The monitone resumed.  "He didn't tell us.  And we don't want to
keep Big Eddy waiting."  Baraka's thoughts raced.  He wondered
why Eddy was called "Big" in the first place, the man was only a
4'2" shrimp!  The grunt Baraka had been quibbling with took a
step forward, his right hand extended forth.  "Come."  Seeing no
other way out of this situation, Baraka agreed to go, "Sure I'll
go, I've been meaning to pay Big Eddy a visit anyways."
 
He stepped forward, looked up, and handed the man his printout.
"Do you like pornographic novels?  Well this one is a real
teaser!"  While the man was momentarily distracted by the document
now in his hand, Baraka's free hand darted down into his open
utility pouch, and then with body pistol firmly fisted, it darted
back out and up to beneath the chin of the silent one of the two
grunts, and blew his brains out.  Having built-in silencing
capability, the compact ppz24 plastic pistol barely made a sound.
It would hardly have mattered though, as each apartment in the
building was nearly sound-proof.
 
Adrenaline surging within him, Baraka twitched around before his
slain enemy had even hit the floor, and as he fearfully backed
away to take aim at his other would-be nemesis, he hardly noticed
the green splatters on his gun and hand.  His printout fell to
the floor as the remaining brute lunged forth to grab him.  As
combat-inexperienced as Baraka was, battle-shock had not yet set in,
it all was happening so quickly.  But he had actually killed a
man.  His first kill.  Skipping backwards, Baraka fired away again
and again into the big man's chest, exclaiming, "Die, you son of
a Vargr whore!" just as he had seen in the movies.  And to his
utter amazement, just like would happen in a movie, green fluid
flowed down the front of the man's jump suit, and he kept coming.
 
Bewildered, Baraka skipped back and around the end of his sofa,
and darted for his bedroom, aiming and firing his gun behind him.
He hit his assailant at least three more times.  It stopped
momentarily, so Baraka did likewise and braced himself as he
continued shooting at it.  It wouldn't go down, and just stared
right at him as he fired into it.  Its eyes revealed a slight
glint of green.  Then the creature in human's clothing came for
him again, and it started to scream.
 
The shriek it made was like a dozen sirens sounding
simultaneously, each one a steady monotone on its own, but
combined they were a polyphonic nightmare, a cacaphony worse than
a thousand fingernails being pulled across a screaching
blackboard.
 
The sound pierced Baraka's mind.  He couldn't stand the terror of
it, it was driving him insane with fear.  The sound was
unbearable, the wail of a creature that wouldn't die.  The sound
of death, and it was almost on him.  He tried to dart backwards
as he shot, his now empty pistol clicking as he slammed into and
fell back onto his bed.  Down upon him the roaring thing came.
 
Baraka screamed as the mindless terror grabbed at him.  He rolled
to one side and off the bed just as the creature tore at where he
was a second before.  The snitch scrambled to his feet and dodged
to one side as the thing came at him again.  Like the lowest of
animals, he struggled to survive.  He jumped up onto the bed and
off the other side, and as the deadly beast tried to follow,
Baraka raced back out of the bedroom.  He leaped over the couch,
raced past the corpse on the floor, and lunged at the panel
switch next to his front door.  The screaming stopped.
 
Baraka slammed his fist into the panel next to the gate which was
his freedom from death.  He lunged into the widening crack as the
doors started to part, a huge feeling of relief sweeping through
him as he did, but slammed into them as they suddenly stopped and
closed once again.  Abject terror gripped him.  In a state of
panic-verging horror, he swung wildly around to spot the creature
before it could get at him.   The inhuman monster that still
looked vaguely human was standing quietly at the apartment's
control console, staring at him.  Its hand was pulling away from
the apartment's master door switch.
 
Baraka's eyes filled with tears.  It wasn't mindless.  It was an
intelligent fiend.  And he was trapped in here with it, his gun
out of bullets.  Intense panic gripped him.  He never new what
hell was like until now.  He knew he was going to die.  The alien
approached.
 
To be continued...
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
(Let me know if you want to read more)
 
            Sincerely,
            Roger Sanger
 
 

------------------------------

Bundle: 557
Archive-Message-Number: 7008
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 1994 00:39:58 -0500
From: tcraig@nasccs.nac.mass.edu
Subject: Back in the saddle

My fine fellows,

  I am a recently revived Traveller player throwing together a campaign for
some Traveller virgins, I am at a quandry.  In the 'old days' I played 
Classic Traveller (I guess), the 3+ books in a nice little black box.  This
suited myself and my players fine. In 1987, however, I began a role-playing
hibernation that I am just now being awoken from.  In that period, a dear 
friend gave me the entire MegaTraveller set (and about every other product
GDW had at the time) which I thanked him for and buried in a closet.  Now to
my dilemma: I dearly loved the CT rules, and the MT rules are fine (for
experienced players. Let's face it, in these books tables and charts 
outnumbered grammaticaly written text 3 to 1.)  I am unsure of the qualities
of GDW's latest incarnations of Traveller.  Is there any current set of rules
that is somewhere in between the simplicity of CT and the complexity of MT?
I know that I can disregard any rules I think are too complex, but it's hard
explaining to players why I don't allow the 20 different sizes of mortars that
the rulebook includes and they want.  As far as background and 'richly detailed'settings go, I tend to design my own little sector outside the realm of imperialspace.  So (after all that rambling), what rules system is detailed enough but
not overpowering?
	Thank you for suffering my verbosity

	TCRAIG@NASCCS.NAC.MASS.EDU
	[I'll use a 3D universe as soon as you give me some 3D paper]
	[to chart it on.					    ]

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 94 22:00:03 EST
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #558: Msgs 7009-7021 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Wed Mar 23 22:00:02 EST 1994
Reply-To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Errors-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Mar 94 22:00:03 EST
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #558: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 558  7009 19-Mar-1994 Ron Dawson       TNE vs MT/CT round 2 1/2 << b.woods6@ge
 558  7010 19-Mar-1994 "Susan M. Shock  PATH OF TEARS <<    One of the reasons 
 558  7011 19-Mar-1994 Steven Gott      PATH OF TEARS Review << I liked it.  It
 558  7012 19-Mar-1994 kspangler@aol.c  TNE:VIEWS << {Even
 558  7013 20-Mar-1994 Ted7@world.std.  Where IS Challenge 72? << Loren, Got yo
 558  7014 20-Mar-1994 Christofer Bert  Re: Submission << muskrat500@aol.com wr
 558  7015 20-Mar-1994 b.woods6@genie.  Re: TNE vs MT/CT round 2 1/2 <<  
 558  7016 20-Mar-1994 Stephen F Linn   << SUBSCRIBE TRAVELLER STEPHEN LINN
 558  7018 20-Mar-1994 Ted7@world.std.  Answer to Dave Johnson: TNE Background 
 558  7019 20-Mar-1994 James Johanness  Archaic Weapons and TNE << Hi Everyone.
 558  7020 20-Mar-1994 "Susan M. Shock  Star Vikings and Path of tears << SPOIL
 558  7021 20-Mar-1994 RJR96326@vax1.u  Colonies: Quality vs Quantity << >For e

------------------------------

Bundle: 558
Archive-Message-Number: 7009
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 94 04:11:53 EST
From: rdawson@business.carleton.ca (Ron Dawson)
Subject: TNE vs MT/CT round 2 1/2

b.woods6@genie.geis.com (I think) writes: 
 
>>The new background severely cripples the technology that I have

>>become accustomed to.
 
u9019138@athmail1.causeway.qub.ac.uk (Matt Johnston) writes:
 
>The solution here is then not to dwell on being Star Vikings from ye
>Olde Mudball worshipping a semi-sentient Air/raft but to dwell on
>being Regency marines...or High tech dudes.
 
b.woods6@genie.geis.com writes: 
 
>     I'm afraid that you've missed my central point.  You see, I want
>the high technology to be *everywhere*.  To be *consistent*.  I want my
>environment to be without low-tech places.  Back when I started playing
>Traveller (14 years ago--where's my cane?), I created my own region of
>space outside the Imperium where the absolute lowest tech level was 13,
>and ranged as high as an extrapolated 17.  The average was right about
>15.
 
>     My main gripe with the new setting is that the *average* tech level
>is far too low, and there are places that have no decent technology at
>all.  It's not that there are too many low-tech worlds, it's that they
>exist at all.  There should be *no* low technology at all.
 
I'm not sure I follow how having high technology everywhere is consistent. If we
look at the real world we live in, it certainly is not consistent.  It is not
consistent even within a single nation.  
 

While the "favourite" campaign universe of any referee is of course a matter of
preference, I don't think that having _consistently_ high tech levels for every
world really makes a lot of sense.  The Imperium always struck me as permitting
a lot of variety within its borders, so technology would vary from world to
world, and possibly philosophies towards technology could vary as well.
 
If we look at our real world, some nations primary exports are fairly "low
tech", and they often get locked in a dependency relationship by trading the low
tech raw materials for higher tech finished industrial goods.  I don't see why
similar situations could not arise in the imperium of old.  It only seems
realistic.
 
One could really have fun playing with these types of economies, as players are
recruited by persons working for a mega-corporation sent to destabilize a world
government that was trying to impose restrictions on trade in an effort to
"industrialize" or "post industrialize" or whatever.  Or they could be hired by
people from the other side to check out certain activities of mega-corporations.
 
In addition, the single tech level listing for a world or culture could be
misleading.  Some cultures could specialize in certain areas, and be say tech
level 13 in terms of bio-engineering, while only tech level 8 in other areas.
 
Finally, the tech level on a world isn't the maximum tech level for that world. 
It is just a general rating.  There can be wealthy individuals, imperial
representatives, or whatnot who have all the high tech you want.
 
Of course, none of this addresses your concern of just having everything _high
tech_.  I favour greater diversity as it seems to be more plausible given the
nature of the Imperium and known space.
 
Dane Johnson <dane@halcyon.com> writes:
 
>1)  The New Era has added no real frontier to Traveller.  Instead, it
>has reduced a well populated and civilized area to relative barbarism.
>The Imperium was spread over a few thousand star systems.  There are
>*trillions* of stars in the Milky Way galaxy.  Traveller's Known Space
>is pathetically small.  All that was necessary to add new frontier was
>some 'beyond the Imperium' source ideas, as was already pointed out by
>someone else...  There was no lack of frontier, just a lack of people
>generating their own sectors away from the main action.'
 
True.  But I doubt there would be much new "life" going towards core, or if
there was, it would be very different from any life forms we know of.  Although
not an astrophysicist, I've read many times that the stars and matter as you
move close to core generally have fewer of the heavier elements, and some of the
key building blocks for life as we know it.  Still, if there was life there, it
would probably be very interesting.  That still leaves room for going the other
way.  However, the Imperium was pretty much hemmed in on all sides and wasn't
going anywhere, unless via some agreement with their neighbours. 
 
While the referee was free to be as creative as they wished in creating a
"frontier", there wasn't really one presented.  That I think is the difference. 
TNE turned everything in known space into a lawless frontier except for a few
pockets, some large. 

 
I must note that I do see one major problem with the TNE setting.  There is a
huge danger of, as others have pointed out, of being turned into a "swords and
spaceships" type of affair, or Twilight 2000 or whatnot.
 
>2)  The New Era has less diversity than CT/MT.  Tech levels are more
>uniform (and lower).  More worlds are balkanized.  Most have lower law
>levels.  Many are now unpopulated.  In general, a subsector's worth of
>New Era planets offers less diversity than an equal volume of CT/MT
>worlds.
 
True.  I would agree that in terms of "ratings" the planets are less diverse.  I

do think though that they do present greater opportunities to surprise the
players.  How would a planet change in the fall?  Before, you could often
consult a compute library and get a good idea of what you were always heading
into.  Now you can consult the records and find what it used to be like.
 
You are right though, there is less diversity when you look at the raw
statistics.  However, as you mentioned in point 1, any referee is capable of
making things pretty diverse.
 
>3)  The New Era or some other collapse-oriented scenario was hardly an
>inevitable outcome of the Rebellion.  Did the US fall into a Dark Age
>after the Civil War or the Assasination of Kennedy?  I, personally, was
>looking forward to a 'balkanized' Imperium, with Deneb, Antares, the
>Vilani, the Solomani, et al becoming small, soveriegn, human-dominated
>nations.  Many other outcomes were possible, none inevitable.
 
The assasination of Kennedy was not the same type of event.  I would say it was
more along the lines of the death of Tito in Yugoslavia or some other large
confederation/empire with very different ethnic/cultural groups being held
together by a strong leader/noble class.  I'd say that events in Yugoslavia and
the Soviet Union may be a bit more analogous to what was happening in the
Imperium.
 
I do agree though that a collapse into barbarity was not inevitable.  I
personally think it probably would have gone the way you suggested in part. 
However, worlds on the battle lines would be destroyed and would effectively be
blasted into the dark ages.  We would have Beruits, Stalingrads and Sarajevos
galore.  
 
Who knows what effect the collapse in large scale trade could have had.  I'm not
sure how self sufficient many of the systems in the imperium were.  With trade
gone, they could possibly have faced very restless populations.  I think the
results would have been a lot of instability, with a general falling back in
terms of overall "tech", although there would still be a few places that
remained high tech.
 
When I spoke of "inevitable", I refer to the realization that the Imperium can
never be again, at least not in the next several hundred years.  When the
Rebellion started, I convinced myself that Margaret would likely succeed. 
Eventually though, it became apparent that GDW had it out for her, and I didn't
see any other faction as having much of a chance.  Then came hard times and the
collapse of many worlds.  It looked like it was going to grind on for a long
time this way.  I think the Virus was GDW's way "out" of this.  With the virus,
they were able to clear off the table much more quickly to rebuild anew.  
 
In many ways, I kind of wish they had gone with the fragmentation and general
lower level of the "dying back of technology", but I do like some of the
possibilities of the virus created vampires.  I also like the possibility of
developing some very different cultures and worlds within the old territory of
the imperium.
 
 
Glenn Myers wrote:
 
>While I agree that the official campaign needed change, the rebellion
>certainly provided it. I think a very interesting history could have
>come out of the rebuilding and reforming of the various post-rebellion
>factions. There would be lots of political intrigue and conflict as 
>the powers worked out their roles. The resulting map would be more
>interesting than either the Third Imperium or The New Era.
>It would have been much more believable although not as cataclysmic.
 
I would have to agree.  The rebellion did provide change.  It was starting to
get rather depressing watching things go so badly for humaniti.  Perhaps they
could have just zoomed us ahead x number of years to after the worst of it. 
But we do have the TNE setting, and it's too late to change that official
history.  Although at first I was very skeptical, I can live with the TNE
setting.  I actually like it, despite agreeing that it could possibly have been
better done otherwise.
 
Glenn Myers wrote:
 
>I just hope that Longbow will hasten cleaning up this virus mess so 
>we can get back to good wholesome exploration and away from tomb
>robbing. 
 
Amen.  I hope that the game doesn't turn into a focus on snatch and grab
exclusively.  With a good ref though, it doesn't have to.
 
Glenn Myers wrote:
 
>Why 70 years and not 150-300 years lost between MT and TNE?
>We still have to resolve Lucan and the black curtain. You can't leave a
>lead like that around and not follow up. Besides, he's the one that
>started this virus mess. Someone is ought to pay for this. And you 
>have to let gamers bring their charcters over from MT if you want 
>to capitalize on past sales.
 
Good point.  I really want to know what the black curtain is and what happened
to all the players in the Rebellion.  
 
Glenn Myers wrote:
 
>Personally, I wish they had moved the TNE setting to 250 years after 
>the rebellion. By that time technology and culture would have changed
>enough that we wouldn't be making as many complaints about rules and
>equipment incompatabilities.
 
Perhaps GDW could be kind enough to support the TNE rules in all eras?  I think
that a lot of the older fans might like that.  Brilliant Lances did have some
pre TNE time period scenarios in it.  With a timeline stretching over so many
years, it would be a shame to let all the older history and potential for
adventure to be unsupported.
 
 
djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson) writes:
 
>I thought Grandfather was dumb too.  In fact the whole idea of the Ancients
>was just too much of a gimmick for my tastes (like the Virus), but TNE
>hasn't elimiated Ancient technology, although I guess we don't know yet
>for certain how it has been affected by the Virus.  I guess the point is
>there isn't anything about TNE that improves this situation (assuming you're
>like Ron and me and feel it had some room for improvement).
 
You are right.  TNE does not change Grandfather, but at least it allows us to
have other more obvious mysteries to inspire adventure.  Yes, any ref could come
up with his own "mystery", but now it has been returned within the official
setting that has been developed.
 
In a related issue, I suspect that the ancients were simply a way to help
justify humaniti and other human type creatures being all over known space. 
There are also a lot of people who like science fiction that deals with ancient
mysterious civilizations. 
 
djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson) writes:
 
>There could have been *Imperial* Core Expeditions (possibly in cooperation
>with the Zhos? Or maybe a `core race'?), as well as Spin, Trail and Rim
>Expeditions.  
 
In cooperation with the Zhos?  Not officially for sure!  Maybe some competition
from vargyr/Imperial types who want to get to whatever it is the Zhos are moving
towards.
 
djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson) writes:
 
>This isn't `whining for the old days'.  The point I'm trying to make is that,
>so far, *all* of the advantages claimed for TNE *from a background point of
>view* could have been accomplished in the Imperium campaign.  Given this
>fact(?), why should anyone buy TNE except that it's the only `game' in town?
>If the only car available was a Yugo would everyone not only rush out to buy
>one but also be clamoring about how great it was?  (Again, this ignores
>issues related to the rules system.)
 
Ummm.. the only car in town still remains a good argument. The only car in town
may be a yugo, but in many ways it is better than the old imperial chevy which
has been stuck on blocks and was slowly rusting from within.

 
djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson) writes:
 
>Black curtain?  Do tell!
 
Heh.  That's one of the biggest mysteries in the TNE.  Pick up a copy of TNE or
Survival Margin and look at the maps.  In the most recent map is a big area
around where core is which is a big black splotch through which no information
passes.  There are also the rumours of vampire fleets around the edge of this
curtain.  What is behind the curtain?  Lucan?  A virus-based AI empire?  A huge
vampire fleet that thinks it is Lucan?  The books are rather vague about it so
far.
 
>> We don't
>> know what happened to the Solomani.
 
djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson) writes:
 
> Maybe they're now the United Federation of Planets?  :-)
 
Heh.  Maybe!  What scares me though is that I was always under the impression
that the Solomani had more advanced computer technology than the imperium.  I
wonder what would have happened to all their smart systems.  Maybe Captain Kirk
virus strains breaking the prime directive. :)
 
djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson) writes:
 
>Okay, after two rounds, here's the score as I see it.  Not much to recommend
>TNE over previous eras except that you don't have to venture outside the
>core of the Old Imperium (which allows you to `rediscover' worlds you were
>familar with 70+ years ago) and the possibility of new `wonder gadgets'
>derived from positive viral mutations.
 
I would say that TNE is a bit less stagnant than CT.  MT wasn't stagnant by any
means, but things were slowly going downhill as imperial civilization slowly
devoured itself.  Eventually, the fighting would break down, as it was starting
to, and you would have had large areas of collapsed economies and worlds along
the battle lines, and different things happening in the worlds behind the lines
which still may be stable.  This could have been the setting for TNE.  One of
many possibilities.  I would have guessed that the Solomani would have been the
biggest winners overall, their expansion stopping only because of difficulty in
absorbing hostile worlds.
 
On the plus side, I would say TNE offers:
(1) Less certainty for the players because old imperial space is less stable
(2) The chance to develop very different societies as a result of distrust of
technology
(3) The chance for the players to engage in empire building/civilization at a
much more personal level.  Their actions can have more of an effect because of
the smaller scale of the situations they are likely to be in
(4) Greater freedom within imperial space to develop worlds, cultures, empires.
(5) The chance to do some fun things with the virus gimmick as others have said
 
On the downside:
(1) Trade outside of the spinward marches is a very different animal.  I was
always a big fan of the old long trade oriented far trader campaigns.  Although
the current setup could still see trade, but it would be on a barter type of
system, and one would have to be very careful of losing ones ship to the
"natives"
(2) The virus has a lot of problems, both in terms of planning and plausibility.
(3) There is a danger of creating a D&D dungeon-crawl type of setting with the
Star Vikings as they plunder technology in their snatch 'n grabs.  
(4) TNE is an attempt at a darker setting.  GDW is jumping on the darker setting
trend in games.  It remains to be seen if the supplements offer something for
those who prefer a more stable and optimistic future.
 
Lots more pros and cons, I'm sure.  I'm just two tired to think of any right
now, and this letter is already too long.  
 
Overall, I think that the TNE does offer greater alternatives to the referee
than it destroyed.  The regency still does exist for those who want greater
stability.  The wilds exist for those who like that type of campaign.  Within
the pocket empires, hiver's sphere, regency, etc the referee is of course the
final determinant as to what their campaign will be like. 
 
I used to really dislike the whole virus idea, and the new setting.  I still
like the old setting, but if I were to run a campaign now, I would definitely

opt for the New era, or maybe a combination of MT/New Era to work _sleeper_
players into the post-virus era.  I personally find it fascinating to think of
how societies would rebuild from this disaster.
 
- - Ron Dawson
 
rdawson@business.carleton.ca


------------------------------

Bundle: 558
Archive-Message-Number: 7010
Date:         Sat, 19 Mar 94 12:25:14 EST
From: "Susan M. Shock" <34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Subject:      PATH OF TEARS

   One of the reasons that people may have had trouble seeing the adventure
potential in the Reformation Coalition setting is that precious little hard
info on it. The PATH OF TEARS sourcebook should solve some of this (except for
those who won't listen anyway...) and provides some very real and useful
adventure ideas. It also corrects some of the major misconceptions that some
have expressed about the Star Vikings (and, I'm happy to say, supports my view
of the RCES as an Exploratory service). It sets up an interesting enemy for the
RCES and makes use of that Tl-5 rifle that can penetrate battle dress which has
been seen around here, as well as providing explanations of how the natives can
get ahold of TL-9 ds ammo for it! Oh yeah, and it provides an alien race which
can be played (and a look at how aliens can be done in TNE, for those too
impatient to wait for "Aliens of the Rim" (like me). This book goes a long way
toward illustrating the adventuring possibilities inherent in the TNE setting.
I can't wait for the "Spinward States" sourcebook...
                                                   Allen

------------------------------

Bundle: 558
Archive-Message-Number: 7011
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 1994 10:54:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Steven Gott <sgott@u.washington.edu>
Subject: PATH OF TEARS Review


I liked it.  It has 154 pages, 19 World Maps, Full Data on six 
subsectors, five of which are totally new.  It also outlines possible 
adventures on the 19 given worlds.  The material is presented as the Area 
of Operations for the RCES for the next few years with each "target" 
given a priority, fleshed out with a few possible adventures on each 
planet, and plenty of room for a GM to build upon.  In past products GDW 
would give a ref a foundation to build on but the GM had to do everything 
else or they would have a series of modules that step by step would give 
you enough detail to make a rich campaign world.  PATH OF TEARS is an 
excellent compromise between these two philosophies.  This time there is 
both a foundation AND a blueprint.  There is a great deal of background 
material about the Reformation Coaltition including:  the names of all the 
memebers, "typical" viewpoints of Reformers from various Coalition 
worlds, the names of their ships, more detail on the Clipper ships, some 
equipment (including the 14.5mm ATR ).

A good product.  The maps alone are worth the $18.00

Steven Gott   
Seattle, WA

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Bundle: 558
Archive-Message-Number: 7012
From: kspangler@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 94 16:19:44 EST
Subject: TNE:VIEWS

{Even
if, ultimately, the idea of `good' viral mutations is just another
gimmick like Ancients technology - and not much of a basis for an entire
campaign.}
I am putting together a compaign, based on the above info paragraph.
The setting is equivalent to Buck Rogers in the 24th Century. Where various
virus strains have formed a culture with humans in order to survive the
upcoming incursions from Vampire Fleets, and Virus paranoid Star Vikings. The
reasons the virus needs humans is a very intelligent and adaptable
tool.(don't have to worry about cross infection from roaming virus entities.)
The humans have very low population and resource poor planets.(both are
facing a multitude of predatory races)
{But I'm a consumer and
I've got my own interests - *and I'd like to buy some new Traveller
products*!  But I'm not going to buy anything they throw at me and so
far this is all TNE seems.  Is there anyone out there who would buy TNE
*for the background* (not the rules) if some sort of comparably priced
`Frontier Sourcebook' was on the shelf next to it?  If so, tell us why.
And if you wouldn't buy TNE over this `Sourcebook' but you bought
it because that's all there is, do you drive a Yugo?  :-)}
My opinions on the above comments..
1) you don't have to buy it.
2)Yes, I bought TNE because of the background.If they had another frontier
source book right next to it. I still would buy it; because when I run a game
I want the basic Background and rules in one book.
3) Are you suggesting that anyone driving yugo is consider mentally
incompetant? Or anyone who bought TNE ignorant...
4) You opened this current line by asking our respective views on either
aspect of traveller.Nothing wrong with expressing one's own opinion. But to
tear apart each opinion that comes in, That is not so polite.
 To the rest of this mailing and the above author I apologize for this long
post. 

------------------------------

Bundle: 558
Archive-Message-Number: 7013
From: Ted7@world.std.com
Subject: Where IS Challenge 72?
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 1994 01:14:40 -0500 (EST)

Loren, Got your ears on?

Where is Challenge 72?

		Ted7


------------------------------

Bundle: 558
Archive-Message-Number: 7014
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 1994 02:35:35 -0800
From: chrisber@netcom.com (Christofer Bertani)
Subject: Re: Submission

muskrat500@aol.com writes:

>     And while I can accept two-dimensionality on the Imperial maps, 2-D
> Brilliant Lances seems rather more silly at times.

	One of the first things I noticed in Brilliant Lances (I haven't
actually played a game yet) was that it could trivially be adapted
to a 3-D system, just as soon as you could devise a method of displaying
the map.  Everything in the rules would translate easily, and very 
little would actually have to be translated.

	Chris Bertani			chrisber@netcom.com


------------------------------

Bundle: 558
Archive-Message-Number: 7015
From: b.woods6@genie.geis.com
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 94 15:12:00 BST
Subject: Re: TNE vs MT/CT round 2 1/2

 
 In Archive-Message-Number 7009, rdawson@business.carleton.ca (Ron
 Dawson) writes:
 >
 >I'm not sure I follow how having high technology everywhere is
 >consistent.  If we look at the real world we live in, it certainly is
 >not consistent.  It is not consistent even within a single nation.
 
     It's *deliberately* consistent.  My created area is far outside the
(still thriving, mind) Third Imperium, and they do things a little bit
differently.  For example, how do you start a colony?  Do you dump a
bunch of people and some supplies on a planet and more-or-less leave the
new colonists to fend for themselves (Third Imperium model), or do you
send in a crew of professional construction and infrastructure engineers
who build everything that is needed for colonization in advance
(automated production facilities, housing, amenities, etc.) so that the
colonists can just move from their old world to their new one and pick
up their lives where they left off (my model).  Basically, the people in
my world *work* at making their technology as uniform and consistent as
possible from world to world.  That way, you can go from world to world
within the area and *depend* on being able to get expert and correct
repairs for your starship, no matter what port you come to (like, even
before the colonists arrive, there's at *least* a B class starport in
place, waiting for their landing).  You don't *ever* have to get your
hands dirty with low tech.
 
 >The Imperium always struck me as permitting a lot of variety within
 >its borders, so technology would vary from world to world, and
 >possibly philosophies towards technology could vary as well.
 
     The Imperium did--I don't.  Which is why the New Era background is
a giant step backward from my viewpoint.  The general trend of
technology should be *up*, not catastrophically down.  Not to mention
the fact that the development and advance of technology should have the
semiconductor technology that the Cymbeline chips (and, presumably,
their Deyo descendants) far enough behind in technical history that
current Imperial technology should be utterly immune to any invasion of
that type.  In other words, the Virus should be impossible--another of
the reasons it'll never get anywhere near my game.
 
 >If we look at our real world,
 
     Um, well, I'm an escapist.  I game to get *away* from the real
world, to one that I think infinitely superior.  Why would I want to add
depressing realism?
 
 >I favor greater diversity as it seems to be more plausible given the
 >nature of the Imperium and known space.
 
     Mmm.  Unfortunately, where I come from, diversity is A Bad Thing.
Certainly something to be avoided.  I prefer a world that is placid and
predictable.  Easier on the cardiac stress level.  Of course, when a
curve is thrown, trouble-shooting becomes necessary.
 
- --
     Brent Woods
 
     INTERNET:  b.woods6@genie.geis.com (preferred) and
                ioc!bwoods@attmail.com
     USNAIL:    4419 Myrtle Grove Dr.  /  Indianapolis IN  46236
     MABELL:    +1 (317) 895-8690
 

------------------------------

Bundle: 558
Archive-Message-Number: 7016
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 1994 11:21:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Stephen F Linn <linn@crl.com>
Subject: 

SUBSCRIBE TRAVELLER STEPHEN LINN


------------------------------

Bundle: 558
Archive-Message-Number: 7017
From: Ted7@world.std.com
Subject: Answer to Dave Johnson: TNE background opinion
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 1994 14:40:42 -0500 (EST)



------------------------------

Bundle: 558
Archive-Message-Number: 7018
From: Ted7@world.std.com
Subject: Answer to Dave Johnson: TNE Background Opinion
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 1994 14:46:27 -0500 (EST)

David Johnson writes:
>Is there anyone else who thinks
>discussions about weapon penetration, craft design, and planetary
>science is a little moot in a two-dimensional universe?

GDW changed a LOT of minutiae in the MT-TNE switch.  Since each of these
changes impinge on some aspect of someone's campaign, they come up for a
lot of discussion.  Also, you need a much wider sample.  Since all we had
to discuss most of last year was the background, it was talked to death
then.  All the discussion (nor any of the discussion here while TNE came 
out) had much effect on GDW.  BL and FF&S came out this year, bringing
lots of minutiae to discuss.  Including how to get BL, FF&S, and TNE to
jibe.  Or how to get TNE to feel like CT or MT.

It's like having to cross a field freshly used by cattle - there's no 
clean way across.


He further asks:
>is there to recommend TNE (vs. MT or CT) from a `background' point of
>view?  Forget the new rules and such, is the new campaign an improvement
>over the ante-Rebellion, Rebellion and Hard Times eras? 

No. (IMHO.)
It offers too much that makes no sense, and offers much less than say CT
offered.  Or MT, for that matter (though I thought the Rebellion was pretty
stupid as a marketting ploy; GDW apparently felt different).

1. Virus makes no sense.  
   - From a story telling viewpoint, it was not necessary (Hard Times was 
     enough to kill of any siable chunks of the Imperium).
   - The ship identifiers make no sense.  Too much of the devastated area 
     is filled with ships that would not have needed or wanted them - 
     including a good number of vessels within the Imperium.  As
     described, they are too easy to fool (TL7 comps can do a good job at
     fooling humans as to what they are; TL14s should have no problem 
     folling the chips which are not as smart.  So, bye-bye vector.
   - "Duh, the siftware reburns the chips" and "duh, the chips move 
     themselves from computer to computer" are the lamest excuses I have
     ever heard; beyond my suspended belief.  Want to kill the Virus? Use
     a good magnet.
   - Actually, i can go on for several pages describing what's wrong with
     the Virus (all of which i do not like), but it has been done before
     and been done better, so I'll spare you all that.

2. Given the Virus, the Regency's existence makes no sense.
    - There were not enough military ships to fully cover a perimeter 
      six parsecs deep thick enough to stop EVERY ship that came in.
      unless they pulled back to something one quarter the size of the
      Domain of Deneb.  In such a case, of course, the Virus would have
      swept around the shrunken Domain and killed off the neighbors.
    - If they did not do so, then Regency history should include the
      planets they had to sterilize in order to save the Regency.
      (Norris's press agent annouces a permanent end to the Efate 
      Rebellion... :-)
    - The Virus would have swept north around teh Vargr Extents and into
      Zho space and then hit the Regency from the other side.
    - The Zho have no reason not to sweep over the Regency and show the
      poor humans there a "Better Way of Life."  That certainly fits the
      character of the Zho GDW so carefully crafted and they certainly 
      have the resources now (not to mention a whole bunch of the Deneb
      military is out guarding against Vampires.)
    - Someone here had suggested that the quarantine line is not as tight
      as it appears, allowing smugglers in and out at will; if it is not,
      "airtight" the Virus would have leaked in, so by-bye Regency.  If it
      is airtight, they waste a LOT of economic resources by destroying 
      incoming ships rather than cleaning them.

3. RCES campaigns seem designed to turn the PCs into cynical fascisti.  Or
   mutineers.  "OK, lads, we're going to go and remove the obstacles near 
   the last working fusion plant on this planet so it can be used by our
   Corporate sponsors on Aubaine.  Intel reports that none of the obstacles
   has anything worse than an LMG..."  Seriously folks, raiding ailing 
   planets to take away assets to your own ailing planet doesn't have much
   in common with some of the CT adventures I enjoyed so much.  From the 
   descriptions of the planets that make up RCES, these folks ain't about to 
   save any minor (much less major) chunk of universe anytime soon - nor 
   support the military machine big enough to dominate it!

   RCES seem to me to make much better bad guys than good guys. While it 
   makes an interesting change to play bad guys once in a while, it is not
   a good campaign basis (IMHO).

4. The large empty spaces.... Consider the billions of programmers in known
   (Impie + Solomani + K'Kree + Aslan + Vargr + Zho + Hiver + many, many 
   minors) - No one found a cure for the Virus?  Ridiculous.
   What of all those TL7 worlds with hardcopy libraries of imperial tech?
   Too easy to have not fallen.  Blank space should not be there.

   However, that said, the best hope I can see for a capaign that would
   interest me is a pocket campaign, or to wander on one of those few 
   surviving interstellar traders.

5. Given the Virus + Hard times crash as described, 70 years is about 100
   to 200 years too soon to position TNE. (That's something else I can 
   lecture on for several pages but I'll spare you; its been done better
   elsewhere).

6. If this was a new game set in an unrelated universe (as Traveller:2300
   was), I'd probably like it much more.  However, for something related to
   Traveller, I find the disconnects both in the background and in teh rules
   too severe.  I know you wanted to limit the discussion to rules only, but
   some of teh rule changes have severe effects on the feel of the game.
   Ships handle MUCH differently - in all too many cases, a same ship has
   gone through some radical shape changes.  

Now, while my original Traveller campign took place in a universe of my own
devising and while I could easily enough change the rules to TNE and re-use
that universe, your question was "how does this background compare"

Beyond my general bitching (items I can't swallow, above), I find TNE FAR
more limited.  In CT (or even MT, away from teh rebellion), you could select a 
variety of settings for the SAME campaign.  Go to the Imperial edges for a
while, trade, get involved in a brushfire war, come back within the imperium
for some more civilized adventures, brush shoulders with some high mucketies
for some intrigue adventures - rather wide choice.  Now you are forced to
choose ONE or TWO basic styles and shift between them.  The places where the
styles can mix are too wide apart:

You can be raiders/commando for RCES (I presume there will be wrangling
within RCES govt)
	OR
You can be traders within the Regency (or adventures on civilized planets,
but if you want that, why not just stay with CT?)
	OR
Traders outside the regency (If you leave you can't really go back)
        OR
Start as barbarians and re-learn what technology is
        OR
Start within an expanding pcoket universe - BUT that will last only until
GDW chooses to trod over your work (pick an area out by the edge; you'll 
last longer).

I see a lot of OR, but very little AND.

I will state for the record that I generally have not bothered bitching in
TML.  I chose to vote with my pocketbook.  I did not buy TNE nor do I plan
to.  Which is really a shame as I own an awful lot of GDW products.  Nor
did I buy MT (I did not like the rebellion; I thought it was a dumb idea.
By now, GDW does too, apparently.)

Well, i guess that's enough of a rant.  But you asked, Dave!

					Ted7



------------------------------

Bundle: 558
Archive-Message-Number: 7019
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 1994 15:14:51 -0600 (CST)
From: James Johannesson - Registrar's Office - 6763 <James.Johannesson@usask.ca>
Subject: Archaic Weapons and TNE

Hi Everyone..

  Am I just blind or are there no statistics on the following archaic weapon?

Bows - Long, Short and Composite
Blowguns
Crossbows - Light, Heavy and Repeating
Bola
Boomerang
Sling

These did have stats in MT and one of our players is interested in using them 
in TNE (and hey.. we have to give the savages something to fight the tanks :-).

I was wondering if someone has this information from Twilight 2000 (according to
Commodore Bwana in Challenge #70 Version 2.2 of TW2000 is compatible with 
TNE).

Thanks...
James
(johannesson@admin.usask.ca)

------------------------------

Bundle: 558
Archive-Message-Number: 7020
Date:         Sun, 20 Mar 94 23:33:59 EST
From: "Susan M. Shock" <34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Subject:      Star Vikings and Path of tears

SPOILERS ABOUND, so skip this if you don't want to know this stuff.
    Path of Tears shows a RCES very different than what some people on here
have been assuming the "Star Vikings" to be. They do NOT just indiscriminately
steal technology from worlds. They recover LOST technology, or relics which are
either not being used or which are being MISUSED to oppress people. They do
more than "smash and grab" missions; some planets (even some with TED's) are
"trade and diplomacy" only missions. They DO take sides in struggles on the
planets which are balkanized, siding with the least technophobic or xenophobic
faction (or sometimes with the faction most friendly to the RC). They are
trying to establish a reasonably democratic interstellar government. This does
not sound like "fascists" to me. Yes, this type of campaign is more combat-
oriented than the old Imperium campaign; my players don't seem to mind this!
As for being T:2000 in space; if the campaign background were set during the
Collapse, I might agree, but TNE is at heart an OPTIMISTIC setting; mankind is
going back to the stars. The holocaust is ending; there is light at the end of
the tunnel for the billions of humans who live in the Wilds. If not the RC,
then the Regency, the Free Trader Network, or even the Guild, will rebuild some
sort of society. All the RC is trying to do is hasten this process and have it
come out better than the Imperium was. T: 2000 is not an optimistic setting.
TNE actually seems like a reaction AGAINST the "dark" RPG's of recent memory.
   I'm excited about the possibilities of my TNE campaign. My players'
characters will need to learn to be diplomats and explorers as well as soldiers
and they will learn it "on the job". There's a certain thrill to knowing that
whatever you do will be shaping history. As a person who liked the original
Traveller and it's Imperium since 1979, I really do feel that the New Era
background is excellent.

------------------------------

Bundle: 558
Archive-Message-Number: 7021
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 1994 23:37:21 -0600 (CST)
From: RJR96326@vax1.utulsa.edu
Subject: Colonies: Quality vs Quantity

>For example, how do you start a colony?  Do you dump a
>bunch of people and some supplies on a planet and more-or-less leave the
>new colonists to fend for themselves (Third Imperium model), or do you
>send in a crew of professional construction and infrastructure engineers
>who build everything that is needed for colonization in advance
>(automated production facilities, housing, amenities, etc.

That would depend on the resources you assigned to the task. You could certainly
colonize more world with the Third Imperium model. In a way, it's sort of like
any other government program - you can either supply really nice service to
a small proportion of the populace, or provide basic services to a larger
one.

In a state as large as the Imperium, I think that a market approach might
develop. The Imperium won't be directly involved. Some efforts may be on
the level you suggest, funded by multiMCr groups with the latest tech. But
others might be bare bones colonies. Think of the different kinds of colonies
memebers of say, the PTL might found as opposed to those of the Sierra Club.
:)

Basically, you have to pay for convenience. I don't think it's unrealistic to
assume that the Imperium opted for low-cost undeveloped colonies. Especially
in the case of colonies that developed from prison planets.


J ROBERSON


------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 94 22:00:03 EST
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #559: Msgs 7022-7034 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Wed Mar 23 22:00:02 EST 1994
Reply-To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Errors-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Mar 94 22:00:03 EST
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #559: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 559  7022 21-Mar-1994 Lionheart \|/    AND/OR << The Universe is HUGE!
 559  7023 21-Mar-1994 James Dening     Utterly, completely, always, never! << 
 559  7024 21-Mar-1994 yfcw29@castle.e  Background pick'n'mix. << For the recor
 559  7025 21-Mar-1994 staats@MIT.EDU   Referee ``Scticks'' << Greetings!
 559  7026 21-Mar-1994 Goldman of Chao  Stable place to adventure. << I was jus
 559  7027 21-Mar-1994 falameezar@aol.  Re: #2(2) TML nightly: Msgs 6... << Ple
 559  7028 21-Mar-1994 Anthony "K." Ba  Traveller Background-Round 3. <<  Well 
 559  7029 21-Mar-1994 Mark Urbin       Challenge 72 <<   I called GDW about th
 559  7030 21-Mar-1994 David Johnson    Re: TML nightly: Msgs 7008-7012 V70#10 
 559  7031 21-Mar-1994 David Johnson    TNE Background 3 << Gentlesophonts:
 559  7032 21-Mar-1994 David Johnson    TNE Background 4 << Gentlesophonts:
 559  7033 21-Mar-1994 David Johnson    TNE Background 5 << Gentlesophonts:
 559  7034 22-Mar-1994 "Susan M. Shock  Star Vikings and the Regency << The "St

------------------------------

Bundle: 559
Archive-Message-Number: 7022
Subject: AND/OR
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 09:33:14 GMT
From: Lionheart \|/ <u9019138@athmail1.causeway.qub.ac.uk>

The Universe is HUGE!

Ted7@world.std.com writes....

>A lot of stuff deleted........


Virus makes no sense?
Why not?
Gee your points seem very vague considering we know considerably
very little about the tech level there. For the regency I assume
they acted very..uh..ruthlessly on anything that appeared.
Try not to portray RCES as Star Vikings...oh GOD I hate that name.
I treat em more like the Klingon Diplomatic Service...effective and
rather ruthless but still with an agenda other than booting about
the galaxy giving other races a HARD TIME (tm).

As for no cure for the Virus? The Hivers did pretty well...you also
have to consider that at this time there was meant to be a war on...

Confusion etc etc etc...

Your laboratory being nuked from orbit limits your ability to
research a problem. As does having your computer fire your prototype
antimatter gun at you.
The hardcopy libraries would be there...the fun is for the players
and their cohorts to FIND them.

Your AND/OR statements seem very limited. You say or and no and?
Well it is quite hard to start as a barbarian learning tchnology AND
also at the same time be an interplanetary trader within the Regency.
These things do take time. There is a MT adventure in a recent copy
of Challenge about a lower tech space program. Perhaps the players
can be the cosmonauts on that eh? That covers your barbarians
relearning plus the getting offworld easy.

The central point in all the ANTI-TNE arguements seems to be..

	"But its not CT/MT/2300, Ct/MT/2300 was better..."

Its not meant to be CT/MT/2300. It is however a good idea. It adds a
bit more to the "Okay you head into jump..a week later you come out,
library says iots an amber world. Theres a bit of trouble but the
imperial marines have sorted it out. Crime..yes...but the the
Imperial police have sorted it out. "

Edit the above with...

"Okay you EVENTUALLY arrive at Gnepticon IV, your library computer,
when consulted, says it is a large round pomegranite spinnng at
relativistic speeds in the cosmic bathtub...but you think it may
have memory problems. The Hitchhikers Guide says it is an amber
world..but then it also said there was a working class A
starport..yeah sure. The sensors indicate large amounts of debris
moving at high speeds...energy scan goes off the scale and a
blinding light flashes past your viewport, lucky the compensators
kicked in. You bring the viewer around and see a spidery monstrosity
constructed from bits of starship hulls and space station struts.
make yer piloting rolls you lucky guys."

I'll shut up now.

*********BTW...Q-CON is on in June.
*********We are playing TNE, Star Trek, Blakes 7 and others.
*********Its in Belfast, Northern Ireland.
*********be there, or be a Hiver.
*********June 17-19, 1994.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                      Matt Johnston
            u9019138@athmail1.causeway.qub.ac.uk
NOTHING IS TRUE, ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE, EVERYTHING IS PERMITTED
                William S. Burroughs
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


------------------------------

Bundle: 559
Archive-Message-Number: 7023
From: James Dening <james@camscan.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 12:15:00 GMT
Subject: Utterly, completely, always, never!



Hmmmmm.

In reply to Brent Woods:

>>
>>						      ...Not to mention
>> the fact that the development and advance of technology should have the
>> semiconductor technology that the Cymbeline chips (and, presumably,
>> their Deyo descendants) far enough behind in technical history that
>> current Imperial technology should be utterly immune to any invasion of
>> that type.  In other words, the Virus should be impossible...

I disagree. It is the same old argument about thicker walls..

Lord of Castle: "These walls are 20ft thick. Break them down? Impossible!"

(Outside) BANG! WHEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeee...........BOOOOM!

Lord of Castle: "Ooops..."

You cannot say that simply because the Cymbeline chips are old, that what is 
*in* them (i.e. software) will be limited to current tech capabilities of the 
time. I am not an expert on the *VIRUS* (Da dah!!), but I would have thought
that it would be capable of adapting it cybernetic attacks to cope with 
something with more runtime, memory etc. than it. If I write a virus 
(heaven forbid!) on a ZX81 with UNIX emulation...alright, seriously, an 8088
PC running LINUX, it will still work on someone else's HP Apollo, or Sparc-10
or Cray or ANYTHING that runs UNIX. Processor power is irrelevant.
Presumably current Imp. Tech. would have moved to something a bit better than
impure silicon chunks, and started using optical systems, or Josephson
Junctions (yeah!!!). Even so, the same argument applies. Clever software
with enough I/O, is capable of almost **anything**. I just wish the stuff I 
write was nearly as clever...... ;-(  


BTW, has there been any backlash against software engineers due to the Virus?
I mean, it's the classic scenario - God Squadders raving on about it being
a punishment - we should never have learnt to program in the first place
etc..., the unwashed masses setting fire to Workstations in the streets, 
line printers being hounded out of town, modems and disk drives living 
together in unmarried sin, RS-232 cables turning to drink and drugs... sorry,
got carried away there!

Well?

James.

PS Just Read something about the Virus 'reblowing chips' etc.
Could someone elaborate?  Privately if it will bore everyone else....

------------------------------

Bundle: 559
Archive-Message-Number: 7024
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 13:38:18 GMT
From: yfcw29@castle.edinburgh.ac.uk
Subject: Background pick'n'mix.

For the record : I do like the TNE background. However, I do sympathise
with those of us who prefered the 3rd Imperium as it was (with or without
the rebellion). I think GDWs big mistake is in concentrating so heavily
on the Star Vikings (I can barely make myself type such a cheesy title).

GDW would have been far better off coming out with info on the Regency
early on in their publications schedule. This would have addressed many
of the criticisms of TNE that have been voiced on the TML.

I am currently working on a campaign using a 'virus/New Era' scenario
played out in a universe which is an amalgam of the Traveller Imperium,
Niven's Known Space and Star Wars (for the gung-ho adventure ingredient).
I will be using a Chaosium-esqu game system based on the Ringworld game
and CoC. (I found TNE character generation and combat rules far too
unwieldy and wargamey for my tastes.)

FF&S will be very helpful in working out the technology. I will probably
use a downrated verson of subspace drives for FTL travell and Thruster
Plates for STL drives. (HEPLAR? You've got to be joking!). I had already
decided that null-g would only cancel gravity, not provide thrust, so I
was delighted to see that FF&S had gone the same way.

*** WARNING : RULES QUESTION ALERT ***

By the way, I tried working out some sample vehicles on a spreadsheet the
other night. There do not seem to be any scale efficiency modifiers for
large power plants in FF&S. There certainly were in Mega Traveller, is
this deliberate or have I missed them? Ducted fan thrusters would seem
to be utterly useless with the power plants listed up to about TL13 unless
we can get more efficient power production somehow.

*** RULES ALERT OVER ***

As for the 'TNE is a load of crap' versus 'TNE is as good a background as
any' debate. I realy don't give a toss. I will continue to buy what I want,
raid for useable material then run whatever kind of game I like. Why can't
everyone else just do that same and stop slaging off each other's campaign
background.


Finaly : Lets be fair, GDW have not killed the Imperial setting. Ok, Empires
rise and fall and this one just fell. But The Regency is still there flying
the flag and there is nothing to stop a new Imperium rising from the ashes
of the old. What GDW hath taken away, GDW can just as easily give back
to us later.

TNE gives us an opportunity to live through a fascinating period in Imperial
history. TNE is more than just savages fighting over the scraps of a fallen
civilisation, it is about growth and renewal. Then, when we have fought the
good fight and wrested civilisation from the jaws of barbarism, we can look
forward to the wheel turning full circle. 'Traveller: The 4th Imperium'.
Of course it will happen, can you seriously doubt it?

David Johnson writes :

>Peace,

Amen to that!

	Simon Hibbs.

------------------------------

Bundle: 559
Archive-Message-Number: 7025
From: staats@MIT.EDU
Subject: Referee ``Scticks''
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 09:47:51 EST

Greetings!

	I always found Ancients technology to be a very *useful* Ref. trick.

	There were so many very good Campaign plotlines you could develop...

Mysterious patron who keeps helping the group out...finally the group discovers
after some time that the patron is really a surviving ancients sentient
android...should they continue to help him/her/it?  What are its goals...?

The group needs to penetrate a high security complex (for whatever
reason)...they have a cloaking device of some type, but its effects are highly
erratic, because they are not sure how to control it...when it works it is
unstoppable, but when it doesn't, watch out!

etc.

	Referee gimmicks are not generally a BAD(tm) thing, but they can be
abused.  Ancients technology gave a good rationale to introduce things into the
Campaign that had an element of mystery and were unpredictable.

	These benign mutations could fall under the same classification.  Hey! 
What would a friendly virus do?  :-\  What even is a friendly virus?  Hmmm...
the possibilities are endless.

	The key thing is not to over do it.  A gimmick is a good Macguffin or
Campaign thread, but if the group finds itself ``saved'' by a different
Ancients' remnant or friendly virus every week, it has stopped being something
creative and become a crutch instead.

	Got to run!

	In service,

	Rich Staats
	Refereed Traveller long enough to be classified as an Ancients' Relic
	;-)

------------------------------

Bundle: 559
Archive-Message-Number: 7026
Subject: Stable place to adventure.
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 9:02:41 CST
From: goldman@orac.cray.com (Goldman of Chaos -- postmaster CRI-US)
Reply-To: goldman@orac.cray.com

I was just thinking that we're looking at this all wrong.  The
*Imperium* is gone.  There was lots and lots of space mapped outside
the GDW private areas.  Since "The Vanguard Reaches" and "Beyond"
sectors vanished off of the official GDW maps, I assume that they
exist in the 'real Traveller' universe.  The universe where the virus
never was.

Even if the sectors were still in the official GDW universe, their
citizens would still be safe. Good old Norris is protecting everyone
Spin-corward of the Imperium from the virus.

Matt

P.S. for those of you who are too young to remember "The Vanguard
Reaches" and the "Beyond" sectors, here is a small map.  This is from
memory (before I've had my daily coffee), so the placement of the
sectors might be slightly off.


 +----+----+----+----+
 |    |    |    |    |
 | a  | b  |    | c  |   a: Beyond Sector
 |    |    |    |    |   b: Vanguard Reaches Sector
 |    |    |    |    |   c: Spinward Marches Sector
 +----+----+----+----+

- -- 
Matthew Goldman  E-mail: goldman@orac.cray.com Work: (612) 683-3061

My day today? Nothing major, just Xenon base gone, Scorpio gone, 
Tarrant dead, Tarrant alive and then I found out Blake sold us out.

------------------------------

Bundle: 559
Archive-Message-Number: 7027
From: falameezar@aol.com
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 11:38:37 EST
Subject: Re: #2(2) TML nightly: Msgs 6...

Please pull me off the list

------------------------------

Bundle: 559
Archive-Message-Number: 7028
From: Anthony "K." Baggaley <mcdapab@prawn.ch.umist.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 16:49:02 GMT
Subject: Traveller Background-Round 3.

 Well things are certainly a bit more active around here now...

 Firstly, to keep up the pointless-nitpicking-science bit of the TML..
 
 James Kundert corrected.... (when I said Thrusters didn't need G-turns
 of reaction mass)

> Sigh.  To put the record straight, the term "G-Hours" (or "G-Turns")
>has two uses.  One of these _always_ applies. Repeat: Always.

> So: Yes, a Thruster ship still accelerates using G-Hours of THRUST,
>but requires no G-Hours of FUEL to do so (aside from what the power
>plant is using).


 Sorry, looks like I was behind in current GDW terminology... I had no 
idea they used that as a measure of acceleration, which it isn't.
A G-hour is a measure of velocity, and it's use as a measure of reaction
mass fits perfectly with that- reaction mass is usually measured by the 
total change in velocity it can achieve. 
(and, if velocity is measured in G-turns then acceleration is measured 
in G, so why did they complicate the term with two meanings?)
 Just wanted to say, I wasn't trying to confuse anyone- in my small
brain acceleration for ships is still measured in G...  It never occurred
to me that G-turn could be confused  with acceleration

                     -----------------------------

 Now, for David Johnson's battle of the backgrounds... or is it battle of
the automobiles?
  As he said, Round Three....
 
    Well it really looks like TNE has failed to bring in many advantages,
 the only NEW thing in there is the virus, and that's not to everyones 
 taste. So the popularity of TNE seems to depend on it's support and it's
 rules... there isn't much more background to discuss at the moment- GDW
 have not told you anything about what happens in the future. It's almost
 as big a spectator sport as the Rebellion. What is jumpstart/longbow/Avery/
 the black curtain- will we find out this millenium?, will we care? When 
 you consider how many people were unimpressed with the 'secret' of the
 ancients (well *I* liked it) never mind the virus, chances are that many
 will be disappointed.
    Straying slightly (only a bit, trust me) into the grey area between 
 rules and background is the other large difference between the two
 settings that I've mentioned before- the equipment. Even if CT and TNE
 were identical in background, you'd notice a BIG difference in the
 capabilities of weapons/armour/starships/vehicles- all the other 
 changes tend to conceal them. Do you prefer thruster plates and 
 fusion guns with infinite ammo, powerful/light gauss rifles and pistols,
 starships with fewer crew, triple turrets?... and so on. In an SFRPG
 the technology is part of the background as much as the astrography.
 With FF&S it is obvious that TNE has an advantage in this area, since
 you can partly alter the technology to suit you game, but some people
 might prefer the simplicity of the old Traveller... you can have any
 starship laser, as long as it's 250MW, don't take your foot off the floor,
 we have two weeks more thrust at 6G, keep firing that fusion gun till
 the power plant goes (not that I ever used them much). Those small but
 annoying changes can stop people changing over, it even stopped some 
 people switching from CT to MT, never mind TNE. Personally I'm just too
 old and set-in-my-ways to change, as are the people I play with, but TNE
 does have good points in this background area.
  
    It's likely that most people didn't buy this Yugo just because it's
  the only car in town- there are a few supported SFRPGs out there, and
  several have certain similarities with Traveller :>, so there was a BIT of
  choice.
   And, don't forget a lot of this list would even buy a broken Yugo
 if GDW printed "TRAVELLER" on the hood :>
                                    
                               (and I did, he mutters)
                               (twice, he mutters)

                             Oh no the thought police have arrived...
                                   
                                    Anthony K.
                       (someone must have been telling lies about me)
 
  oh, and you think Yugos are bad? Well I sometimes drive a Lada...
                                                   
                                       

                                   

------------------------------

Bundle: 559
Archive-Message-Number: 7029
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 12:08:16 -0500
From: mju@ftp.com (Mark Urbin)
Subject: Challenge 72


  I called GDW about this today.  I was told that it would be mailed out
to subcribers by `the end of the month'.

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  \      oo    				Mark Urbin  mju@ftp.com
   \____|\mm   "Vouf, Vouf!"		These opinions are mine, no one 
   // //\ \_\  "Good Dog!"		will claim them...
  /K-9/  \/_/  "Put down the Gauss pistols!"
 /___/_____\   				eclipse@world.std.com
 ----------- 	  Where am I going and what am I doing in this handbasket?
		  "I'm from Poughkeepsie and I didn't do it!"
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Bundle: 559
Archive-Message-Number: 7030
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 15:45:49 CST
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: Re: TML nightly: Msgs 7008-7012 V70#10

Dear Friend:

Referring to my comments in TML Msg 7003, you wrote:

> 3) Are you suggesting that anyone driving yugo is consider mentally
> incompetant? Or anyone who bought TNE ignorant...
> 4) You opened this current line by asking our respective views on either
> aspect of traveller.Nothing wrong with expressing one's own opinion. But to
> tear apart each opinion that comes in, That is not so polite.

I don't feel that replying to subsequent postings is impolite but I certainly
never intended to `tear apart' *any* opinion expressed by others in response.
Nevertheless, I accept that you were bothered by my comments and sincerely
regret it.  I will post a public apology to the TML.

Finally, I'd like to ask you to keep in mind my comments from TML Msg 6995
when you read my postings in the future:

"And please, don't anyone take offense.  My sarcasm is meant all in good fun.
I apologize if I've offended any eyes.  Please let me know directly if you 
have a specific beef with something I've said."

Peace,

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA


------------------------------

Bundle: 559
Archive-Message-Number: 7031
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 17:53:03 CST
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: TNE Background 3

Gentlesophonts:

Well, the discussion seems to be getting just a little repetitive so let's
see if we can move on.  Let's start with Friday's contributions (sorry, I
missed the weekend).

Brent Woods <b.woods6@genie.geis.com> writes:
  
>      I won't have Star Vikings, or RCES, or the Regency

Earlier, I had supposed that RCES and the Regency were the same.  Sounds
like that ain't the case.  Will someone please shed some light on this
for me?  Are the Star Vikings another group altogether?


Dane Johnson <dane@halcyon.com> writes:

> 4)  Rules & Realism vs. 'True' Role Playing -- This topic is a real candidate
> for a flamewar, but I think that both sides are nearly equally important
> to a good RPG.

This is a good point.  I didn't mean to suggest that `backround' had some
greater value than `rules' - that just happens to be my own opinion.  :-)
I don't think this issue can be resolved - hence my attempt to keep the
discussion focused on `background' issues.

I agree with much of what Dane said about the TNE backgound.  He continues
to make the case that it offers little over a CT/MT setting that ventures
outside the core of the Old Imperium and yet takes a huge toll on the
exisiting campaign.

> The new people attracted to the game do not
> appreciate the past history of the Imperium and would not miss it if it
> were not there, while those of us who liked the Imperium feel it's loss
> keenly.

I'm in the second camp and feel the same way.  What about some of you new
people?  Does this make sense?

 
Tom O'Neill <tom@csvax1.ucc.ie> writes:

> djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson) said:

> > It would seem though that sophonts might be
> > able to effectively compensate for a lack of automation - Herbert's *Dune*
> > universe comes to mind as a good example.  
 
> The *Dune* point is interesting - I would interpret Dune's technology as
> being based on psionics and genetic engineering. This is a real shift
> from the mainstream Imperium culture, and would involve an entirely
> different mindset. It is an interesting idea for a culture with psionics
> and psionic star travel that entirely abandoned computers (or perhaps it
> subsequently developed psionic star travel).

This idea is the most (so far, *only*) interesting possibility suggested
by TNE - and, to my knowledge, has yet to be developed at all in any of
the official material coming out of GDW.  Too bad we can't copywright an
idea.  :-)  Of course the sort of change that the Butlerian Jihad engendered
in the *Dune* universe couldn't happen in just 70 years.

Several folks have made the point that TNE would make more sense, for a
variety of reasons, if the `time warp' was something much greater than
70 years.  That's a good point but I'd simply ask these folks what you'd
really like to see happen if GDW were to have a `New Coke' revelation:
they say, "Oops!" and move TNE forward another couple of decades; or they
say, "Dallas!" and issue a CT/MT `Frontier Sourcebook'?  :-)

That's all for Friday's postings.

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA

------------------------------

Bundle: 559
Archive-Message-Number: 7032
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 19:41:22 CST
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: TNE Background 4

Gentlesophonts:

Saturday's postings answered some questions for me and provides an opportunity
to move on to details of the TNE background.

"Susan M. Shock" <34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> (Allen?) speaking of *Path
of Tears* writes:
 
>    One of the reasons that people may have had trouble seeing the adventure
> potential in the Reformation Coalition setting is that precious little hard
> info on it. The PATH OF TEARS sourcebook should solve some of this (except for
> those who won't listen anyway...) and provides some very real and useful
> adventure ideas. It also corrects some of the major misconceptions that some
> have expressed about the Star Vikings (and, I'm happy to say, supports my view
> of the RCES as an Exploratory service).

Okay, so the Space Vikings are from the Reformation Coalition (RCES?)?  And
this is different from the Regency?
 

kspangler@aol.com (???) writes (quoting me replying to Lionheart \|/ in
TML Msg 7003):

> {Even
> if, ultimately, the idea of `good' viral mutations is just another
> gimmick like Ancients technology - and not much of a basis for an entire
> campaign.}
> I am putting together a compaign, based on the above info paragraph.

Great!  But I suggest you and Lionheart \|/ get together and find a way
to protect your idea or you might just find it turning up in a TNE sourcebook
some day soon.

> {But I'm a consumer and
> I've got my own interests - *and I'd like to buy some new Traveller
> products*!  But I'm not going to buy anything they throw at me and so
> far this is all TNE seems.  Is there anyone out there who would buy TNE
> *for the background* (not the rules) if some sort of comparably priced
> `Frontier Sourcebook' was on the shelf next to it?  If so, tell us why.
> And if you wouldn't buy TNE over this `Sourcebook' but you bought
> it because that's all there is, do you drive a Yugo?  :-)}
> My opinions on the above comments..
> 1) you don't have to buy it.

Right.  And I haven't, but I'd like to have some more Traveller material
if it's an improvement over CT/MT.

> 2)Yes, I bought TNE because of the background.If they had another frontier
> source book right next to it. I still would buy it; because when I run a game
> I want the basic Background and rules in one book.

Okay, you bought it because you liked the convenience of the new rules and
the new background in one handy book.  If the `CT/MT Frontier Sourcebook'
had had the new rules too would you still have bought TNE?  Remember, I'm
not asking about the House System rules.  What is there about that TNE
background, if anything, that is better than background for a CT/MT
frontier campaign?

The `mutated tech' idea mentioned above is one such idea but then even that
could have been accomplished in an expansion of the frontier of the CT/MT
setting.  The Virus could have evolved outside of the Imperium and have been
an approaching menace - like the Borg were in Star Trek - you'd get the
`mutated goodies' without having to destroy the Imperium.  Nevertheless,
IMHO, there's a small spark of hope for TNE in this idea.

> 3) Are you suggesting that anyone driving yugo is consider mentally
> incompetant? Or anyone who bought TNE ignorant...
> 4) You opened this current line by asking our respective views on either
> aspect of traveller.Nothing wrong with expressing one's own opinion. But to
> tear apart each opinion that comes in, That is not so polite.
>  To the rest of this mailing and the above author I apologize for this long
> post. 

I sent a separate post on these points.  Again, I apologize if you or anyone
else was offended.
 

rdawson@business.carleton.ca (Ron Dawson) writes:
  
> While the referee was free to be as creative as they wished in creating a
> "frontier", there wasn't really one presented.  That I think is the
> difference. 
> TNE turned everything in known space into a lawless frontier except for a
> few
> pockets, some large.

It seems clear then that TNE answers a call for a `frontier' setting,
that's great; but in doing so it also asks those of use who adventured in the
CT/MT background to abandon most of what's been developed for that setting.
That's asking a lot especially because one can also discover that `frontier'
setting in the CT/MT campaign with some extra effort (whether supported by
GDW or not).  So, again, I pose the question: what's the improvement offered
by TNE over the CT/MT background?  Do you see that in this context the fact
that TNE is merely `different' isn't good enough?  Unless each of us has an
unlimited supply of funds, the TNE setting ought to be an improvement over
the CT/MT setting.

> I also like the possibility of
> developing some very different cultures and worlds within the old territory of
> the imperium.

Okay, here's a good point to move on from.  What sort of different cultures?
And what's the advantage of developing these new cultures within regions of
the Old Imperium?  Remember though, they'll only have 70 years to diverge
from Imperial culture.  There will still be folks alive who remember Strephon,
not many, but a few.

> But we do have the TNE setting, and it's too late to change that official
> history.

Don't give up hope!  Remember `New Coke'!  :-)  Then again, does anyone know
where the guy/gal who came up with `New Coke' ended up?  It couldn't have
been GDW, could it?  :-)
  
> I really want to know what the black curtain is and what happened
> to all the players in the Rebellion.

Me too!  And I'll bet that's enough to get a lot of folks to buy TNE whether
they think it's better or not.  (Maybe that `New Coke' gal/guy wasn't so
dumb after all - she/he was just in the wrong industry!)
 
> Perhaps GDW could be kind enough to support the TNE rules in all eras?
> I think
> that a lot of the older fans might like that.
> With a timeline stretching over so many
> years, it would be a shame to let all the older history and potential for
> adventure to be unsupported.

Nice idea but it won't happen.  Development and production costs for each
era (market segment) would have to be spread over a smaller customer base.
That's h**l for profits.
 
> djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson) writes:
>  
> >There could have been *Imperial* Core Expeditions (possibly in cooperation
> >with the Zhos? Or maybe a `core race'?), as well as Spin, Trail and Rim
> >Expeditions.  
>  
> In cooperation with the Zhos?  Not officially for sure!

Don't be so sure.  Have you seen the latest design for Space Station
*Freedom*?  It's some US/European/Japanese modules attached to the orbiting
Russian *Mir* space station.  The Space Program was born in Cold War
competition and now cooperation is all that's keeping it from the budget
cutter's axe on both sides.
  
> Ummm.. the only car in town still remains a good argument. The only car in
> town
> may be a yugo, but in many ways it is better than the old imperial chevy which
> has been stuck on blocks and was slowly rusting from within.

You're confirming my suspicions that much of the `support' for TNE comes
from the cold, hard fact that that's all there is if you're interested in
Traveller.  That's fine, but it's not for me.  Do we concede that this is
the only real advantage (it's a big one, I agree) of TNE over CT/MT from
a background point-of-view?  Remember, a `Frontier Sourcebook' could have
overhauled that `old imperial chevy' into a shiny hot rod - but it would
have been more difficult to sell the `new' House rules to everyone that way.
 
> Heh.  That's one of the biggest mysteries in the TNE.  Pick up a copy of
> TNE or
> Survival Margin and look at the maps.  In the most recent map is a big area
> around where core is which is a big black splotch through which no information
> passes.  There are also the rumours of vampire fleets around the edge of this
> curtain.  What is behind the curtain?  Lucan?  A virus-based AI empire?  A
> huge
> vampire fleet that thinks it is Lucan?  The books are rather vague about it so
> far.

Another good way to hook `old timers' whether TNE is any good or not, right?
  
> (4) Greater freedom within imperial space to develop worlds, cultures,
> empires.

I really don't understand the attraction of doing this sort of thing in
Imperial space.  A lot of folks are saying this.  What's the deal?  Yes,
with TNE, GDW is now *supporting* frontier adventuring more but this would
also have been the case with a CT/MT frontier sourcebook.  So, isn't this
just another case of TNE being the only choice available rather than any
sort of improvement?

You want an interesting frontier?  How about a Virus that spreads through the
Solomani Party apparatus (biological or computer), leaving destruction in it's
wake.  The Imperium manages to fend it off, all the excitment of TNE exists in
the Solomani Sphere (which hadn't been developed so nothing has to go in the
trash) and you kill off those neo-Nazis and `liberate' Terra all at the same
time!

> I personally find it fascinating to think of
> how societies would rebuild from this disaster.

Okay, even I'm getting tired of reading me.  Let's move on to these new
societies.  What sorts of things are folks doing?  Are you adventuring in
pocket empires?  Exploring, or pillaging, with the Star Vikings?  Expanding
the Quarantine Line of the Regency?

Peace,

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA

------------------------------

Bundle: 559
Archive-Message-Number: 7033
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 21:13:00 CST
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: TNE Background 5

Gentlesophonts:

Okay, we've begun to move beyond the TNE vs. CT/MT issue.  Let's look now
at the particulars of campaigning in the TNE background.

Ted7@world.std.com (???) writes:
 
> 3. RCES campaigns seem designed to turn the PCs into cynical fascisti.  Or
>    mutineers.  "OK, lads, we're going to go and remove the obstacles near 
>    the last working fusion plant on this planet so it can be used by our
>    Corporate sponsors on Aubaine.  Intel reports that none of the obstacles
>    has anything worse than an LMG..."  Seriously folks, raiding ailing 
>    planets to take away assets to your own ailing planet doesn't have much
>    in common with some of the CT adventures I enjoyed so much.  From the 
>    descriptions of the planets that make up RCES, these folks ain't about to 
>    save any minor (much less major) chunk of universe anytime soon - nor 
>    support the military machine big enough to dominate it!
>    RCES seem to me to make much better bad guys than good guys. While it 
>    makes an interesting change to play bad guys once in a while, it is not
>    a good campaign basis (IMHO).

Here's a good point.  The RCES (the Reformation Coalition?) sounds a lot like
the Space Vikings of H. Beam Piper's novel of the same name.  (You notice I
mistakenly referred to the `Star Vikings' in my last posting as the `Space
Vikings'.  Clearly, I'm not the only one making this connection.  Those of
you who are familiar with Piper will recall that those `high-tech barbarians'
that raided the remnants of the `Empire' came from the Sword Worlds - which
were `appropriated' by the folks at GDW a long time ago.)  Sound familiar?

Also, if you've read Piper's novel, it's not at all the case that these
`barbarians' have to be `bad guys'.  Yes, most of them slaughtered innocents
pretty much indiscriminately (they used nukes rather than a Virus - more
honorable Space Vikings called this `chicken stealing') but there were a few,
like the novel's protagonist Lucas Trask, who had the idea of rebuilding a
new civilization.

So, does this make TNE sort of a GURPS Space Vikings but with the GDW House
Rules and the names changed to protect the innocent?  Hopefully, Steve
Jackson (and the holder's of Beam's copyrights?) reads TML too!  :-)

>    What of all those TL7 worlds with hardcopy libraries of imperial tech?

A good question.  I've still got mine.  :-)

> Beyond my general bitching (items I can't swallow, above), I find TNE FAR
> more limited.  In CT (or even MT, away from teh rebellion), you could select a
> variety of settings for the SAME campaign.  Go to the Imperial edges for a
> while, trade, get involved in a brushfire war, come back within the imperium
> for some more civilized adventures, brush shoulders with some high mucketies
> for some intrigue adventures - rather wide choice.  Now you are forced to
> choose ONE or TWO basic styles and shift between them.  The places where the
> styles can mix are too wide apart:
> 
> You can be raiders/commando for RCES (I presume there will be wrangling
> within RCES govt)
> 	OR
> You can be traders within the Regency (or adventures on civilized planets,
> but if you want that, why not just stay with CT?)
> 	OR
> Traders outside the regency (If you leave you can't really go back)
>         OR
> Start as barbarians and re-learn what technology is
>         OR
> Start within an expanding pcoket universe - BUT that will last only until
> GDW chooses to trod over your work (pick an area out by the edge; you'll 
> last longer).
> 
> I see a lot of OR, but very little AND.

Okay folks, if TNE is inevitable despite the fact that it doesn't offer any
thing that wasn't possible in CT/MT, let's try to `lie back and enjoy it'.
Anyone see any options for TNE other than those above?  Any way to turn
any of those `ORs' into `ANDs'?  Which situation are you adventuring in?
Please tell us about it.

As for other options, we've heard from folks who continue to use the CT/MT
background (often with `unofficial' regions on the Imperium's fringe) where
the Virus, and sometimes even the Rebellion, never happened.  What are you
folks up to now?  Any folks adventuring even farther back in the Imperium's
past?

And finally, has anyone else out there abandoned Imperial space altogether
and developed a campaign background that's unrelated to the Imperium at all?

Peace,

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA

------------------------------

Bundle: 559
Archive-Message-Number: 7034
Date:         Tue, 22 Mar 94 00:42:28 EST
From: "Susan M. Shock" <34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Subject:      Star Vikings and the Regency

The "Star Vikings" (a name which THEY did not choose, by the way) are the
members of the Reformation Coalition Exploratory Service, based out of the
rimward subsectors of the Old Expanses. The Regency is the old Domain of
Deneb (and a few additions), and includes the Spinward Marches. It is as close
to the old Third Imperium as you can get in today's Traveller universe. There
seemed to be some confusion about this, so I thought I'd explain it.
   Anyone remember the "Yankee Air Pirates"? These were a group of guys who
were given that name by the North Vietnamese, which they later wore with pride.
Is this really any dumber than "Star Vikings" (which, incidentally, was first
used-with a different meaning-in "Assignment: Vigilante")? The "Star Vikings"
name is part of an anti-RC propoganda campaign being waged by the Guild.
Sometimes you don't get to choose these things.

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 94 22:00:03 EST
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #560: Msgs 7035-7047 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Wed Mar 23 22:00:02 EST 1994
Reply-To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Errors-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Mar 94 22:00:03 EST
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #560: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 560  7035 21-Mar-1994 James Kundert    Re: G-Hours and Beyond... <<  In respon
 560  7036 22-Mar-1994 Jo_Grant.LOTUSI  How the Critter Competition panned out.
 560  7037 22-Mar-1994 Sven Munther     2300AD third party material << Hello ev
 560  7038 22-Mar-1994 langsl@cbr.hhcs  cyberpunk & bionics in traveller <<    
 560  7039 22-Mar-1994 langsl@cbr.hhcs  RE:Background <<                   I N 
 560  7040 22-Mar-1994 Diane Kelly      Enough, already! << I don't mean to sou
 560  7041 22-Mar-1994 Anthony "K." Ba  Star Vikings << Re: Path of Tears
 560  7042 22-Mar-1994 Anthony "K." Ba  Star Vikings <<  I used to wonder how p
 560  7043 22-Mar-1994 bc80076          solomani << Hi folks
 560  7044 22-Mar-1994 David Johnson    TNE Background 5 << Gentlesophonts:
 560  7045 22-Mar-1994 Keeper Of The L  All Of This Discussion << Okay, time fo
 560  7046 22-Mar-1994 Keeper Of The L  help << I was wondering if anyone can t
 560  7047 22-Mar-1994 Roger Sanger     T. Craig's VIRGINS <<  

------------------------------

Bundle: 560
Archive-Message-Number: 7035
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 23:32:43 PST
From: James Kundert <james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>
Subject: Re: G-Hours and Beyond...

 In response to my G-Hours post,
Anthony "K." Baggaley <mcdapab@prawn.ch.umist.ac.uk> says:

> Sorry, looks like I was behind in current GDW terminology... I had no 
>idea they used that as a measure of acceleration, which it isn't.
>A G-hour is a measure of velocity, and it's use as a measure of reaction
>mass fits perfectly with that- reaction mass is usually measured by the 
>total change in velocity it can achieve. 
>(and, if velocity is measured in G-turns then acceleration is measured 
>in G, so why did they complicate the term with two meanings?)
> Just wanted to say, I wasn't trying to confuse anyone- in my small
>brain acceleration for ships is still measured in G...  It never occurred
>to me that G-turn could be confused  with acceleration

 It isn't really a unit of acceleration, but a unit of _movement_.
Blame part of the strangeness on my late-night-and-long-unused grasp of
physics.  The G-Turn is just a new label for the old Mayday relationship
between thrust and movement: One G for One Turn (one G-Turn) changes
the ship's position by One Hex from what it would have been without the
thrust.  This is the definition always in use.
 Why use the label for fuel as well?  Because it only requires a
calculator during _design_, not during play: Your 3 G ship has fuel for
20 G-Turns of thrust remaining in the fuel tanks; the pilot applies
(for ship-to-ship combat) 3 Gs for the length of one turn, to get
the ship going where he wants it.  The fuel tanks now contain 17 G-Turns
worth of fuel.


 -----
 On a different matter, goldman@orac.cray.com
(Goldman of Chaos -- postmaster CRI-US) mentioned:

>P.S. for those of you who are too young to remember "The Vanguard
>Reaches" and the "Beyond" sectors, here is a small map.  This is from
>memory (before I've had my daily coffee), so the placement of the
>sectors might be slightly off.


 Indeed. Here is the layout:

 +----+----+----+----+
 |    |    |    |    |   a: Far Frontiers Sector
 | a  | b  | c  | d  |   b: Foreven Sector
 |    |    |    |    |   c: Spinward Marches Sector
 |    |    |    |    |   d: Deneb Sector
 +----+----+----+----+
 |    |    |    |    |   e: Vanguard Reach Sector
 | e  | f  | g  | h  |   f: Beyond Sector
 |    |    |    |    |   g: Trojan Reach Sector
 |    |    |    |    |   h: Reft Sector
 +----+----+----+----+

 To get to The Beyond from the Marches, head to Five Sisters subsector
and keep going (as the map sits) down and to the left, from 'c' to 'f'.
 The right half of the above sketch (CDGH) is the "Domain of Deneb".
Of the left half, Far Frontiers is being (re)printed in The Traveller
Chronicle, Foreven is officially off-limits for printed development
beyond what was in Imperial Lines #1, and Chuck Kallenbach is still
(and forever) working on the Vanguard Reach. It seems that I heard
that someone had started to redo the Beyond, but I don't know who.

 For the curious, the Virus Quarantine border cuts Deneb in half top
to bottom, then runs from the center-top of Reft to the center-bottom
of the Trojan Reach.  The border seems to follow the edge of the Rift
to spin-rimward (left and down).  Where the border goes to coreward
(up) varies. A HIWG map of Gvurrdon runs the border in a long curve
from bottom-right to top-left, where it hits the Zhodani Consulate
and presumably follows that border out into no-traffic-land.  The
map in the TNE book suggests that the border runs the tops of Deneb
and the Marches until it hits the Consulate and heads coreward. I
prefer the idea of some of Gvurrdon's larger Vargr states surviving,
myself.


James Kundert <j.kundert@genie.geis.com>
              <james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>

There was a young lady named Bright,
Whose speed was much faster, much faster than Light.
She departed one day in a relative way,
And returned on the previous Night.
   --Albert & the Heart of Gold

------------------------------

Bundle: 560
Archive-Message-Number: 7036
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 94 03:58:18 EST
From: Jo_Grant.LOTUSINT.LOTUS@CRD.lotus.com
Subject: How the Critter Competition panned out...

For those who expressed an interest in the material I
had posted here is what happened from the primary NPC's
point of view...

	Neil Hart had had an offer from AllCo Genetics for transfering
his technology to the gene pool. He couldn't take all his work
from Red Wizard legally so he worked it into a game object,
a alien-proof suit of armour. He then appeared in the game as
a "king" alien and gave it to a player who worked on a merchant
ship.
	Before that he had hacked local computers to arrange a
hot-shit cargo for the Baperte system (where AllCo is based)
to be "accidentally" re-routed to the same ship.
	Unfortunately they ship refused the cargo. Repeatedly.
Eventually blowing dock before it was physically loaded on.
This kind of put Neil in a position. He had just been fired
from Red Wizard because his aliens completely took over the
RealVision arcade and shut it down. He had three AllCo heavies
breathing down his neck and no data.
	He took the next ship to Ubedewi (where they had jumped)
"bumped into" them there and hired their ship for three jumps
without telling them where they were going. He paid them with
a run-time copy of "Bughunt on Ryleh", worth about 1.2MCr. His
heavies turned up and "accompanied him".
	Next he jumped them one at a time toward Baperte, them not
realising that they were going in that direction. His plan was
that they would eventually play the game using the armour. He
would copy the data and invalidate the cube. Unfortunately they
all refused to touch the game and didn't acknowledge the existence
of the cube.
	On the final approach to Allewont in the Baperte system
Neil starts demanding that his cabin has been broken into and
a data crystal stolen. He and his heavies walk (through the
computer security) onto the crew deck and make for the cabin of
the crewmember who had the crystal.
	The crew tells Allewont (whose only inhabitants work for AllCo)
that there is a hijack on board and they warm up their laser turrets
and tell them to land or else. The pilot gives a five second warning
and cuts the gravity. They are decelerating at 2G but most people
manage to grab a hand-hold. Execpt one crew-member who fall 1m and
hurts themself and Neil who was in a corridor. He falls 4.5m, takes
8 dice of damage and gets all three stats reduced to zero. Oooops.
	They turn the gravity back on and take the weapons out of the
ship's locker. The heavies are unarmed and cease hostile activities.
They don't move from the coridor. Hart is moved to a low berth.
	The pilot makes a run for it using the landing hanger as
cover from one of the lasers. The other gets a shot and they take
a fuel hit. They fly off nap-of-earth and are only exposed for
one combat round before they can use the horizon as cover.
	Allewont base send a shuttle after them and a chase ensues.
Their laser, and all internal doors, had been hot-wired by Neil to
Neil which leaves them a little bolloxed. They try to plea-bargin
with Allewont saying they will hand over Neil and the crystal for
5MCr (paid in advance). Allewont demands they return to base and 
submit to a full ship search in return for the 5MCr. If they don't
agree they will spend the 5MCr on a mercenary contract to get them.
The ship capitulates.
	In the end Allewont only takes Neil and the data and lets the
ship go without any malicious extra damage (except taking a gene
sample from each crewmember and their cat).
	The body would take weeks to heal which doesn't suit their
time-table. They have the equipment for full body regrowth and
memory transfer, though. The first stage is to record the brain.
For best results this is done in a destructive way. Normally they
would later play this into a new "blank" brain.
	However they also have the facilities to run the stored
information on a mainframe (sort of an AI). They did this to validate
that Hart's knowledgebase was intact. (They didn't want to let the
others go until they know the goods were intact) As they wired his
senses to a simple accomidation and computer terminal environment
Neil hasn't actually noticed!
	So Allewont currently don't plan to reconstruct the body.
They've made a press release (after the ship left) to the effect
that Dr. Neil Hart has died from injuries sustained abort the
Merchant Ship Rainbow's End. Brain Death occured on...


------------------------------

Bundle: 560
Archive-Message-Number: 7037
From: Sven Munther <sm@admnet1.copenhagen.NCR.COM>
Subject: 2300AD third party material
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 94 10:04:00 MET


Hello everybody!

I am starting up my 2300AD campaign this week, and I have a question to ask:

What third party 2300AD products exists? I have one set of Seeker deck plans 
and
I have 'Operation Overlord'. What other products and fanzines exists? I 
remember
reading about a fanzine on TML. Does it still exist? Is it possible to get 
backcopies ?

 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------  
 ----------------
Sven Munther        | Email: Sven.Munther@Copenhagen.NCR.COM
               | Phone:  +45 31 87 37 27 (Private)
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------  
 ----------------

------------------------------

Bundle: 560
Archive-Message-Number: 7038
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 16:12:34 +1000
From: langsl@cbr.hhcs.gov.au
Subject: cyberpunk & bionics in traveller


                  I N T E R O F F I C E   M E M O R A N D U M

                                        Date Sent:22-Mar-1994 04:12pm
                                        From:     Alistair Langsford
                                                  LANGSFORD ALISTAIR
                                        Dept:     Information Services
                                        Tel No:   289 7870

TO:  Remote Addressee                     ( _traveller@engrg.uwo.ca )


Subject: cyberpunk & bionics in traveller

Some Questions for the Assembled TML Wisdom to Ponder:
======================================================

What world characteristics do people think would be appropriate for the 
development of a cyberpunk style society in Traveller? I tend to think an 
Early Stellar tech, High Population world at least is required (or the 
world is a colony of such a place). What else - Government type?

If you can suggest example worlds please do so - especially if within the 
Spinward Marches.

How socially acceptable do you think artificial body parts/bionics would 
be in the Imperium at large?

What about 'organ legging', as per Larry Niven's stories (and now the real 
world, or so it is rumoured)? Do you think this crime can exist in the 
Imperium? If yes, where and why? If not, why not?

Alistair,
langsl@cbr.hhcs.gov.au




------------------------------

Bundle: 560
Archive-Message-Number: 7039
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 15:56:48 +1000
From: langsl@cbr.hhcs.gov.au
Subject: RE:Background


                  I N T E R O F F I C E   M E M O R A N D U M

                                        Date Sent:22-Mar-1994 03:56pm
                                        From:     Alistair Langsford
                                                  LANGSFORD ALISTAIR
                                        Dept:     Information Services
                                        Tel No:   289 7870

TO:  Remote Addressee                     ( _traveller@engrg.uwo.ca )


Subject: RE:Background

Rather than more discussion of TNE background vs CT or MT background, I'd 
rather see:

- - anyone's favourite PC [or NPC] written up, like the Casual Encounter or 
77th Patron articles in JTAS/Challenge. What sort of things do they like 
doing? How could they be used in a campaign, e.g. as a Patron, an ally or 
adversary, or someone who applies to the PCs for a job perhaps?

- - a writeup of a world that has figured prominently in a campaign you've 
been running or playing in.

- - scenario ideas, even if brief, like the old Amber Zone articles.

- - setting ideas, even if only brief or incomplete.

- - some more 'newspaper' adverts (one of these days I hope to have the spare 
time to collate whats been sent. In the meantime they are still useful as 
they are).

- - Organisations of the Imperium: we have Megacorps documented, and some 
other organisations. What other organisations have people created to add 
life to their campaigns, and how have the worked out?

This is the sort of background information I would find interesting. So if 
you have this sort of stuff but don't think it is of interest to the list, 
there is at least one person who is.

I don't care which setting you put them in - CT, MT, TNE, or even 2300.

Alistair,
langsl@cbr.hhcs.gov.au





------------------------------

Bundle: 560
Archive-Message-Number: 7040
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 11:54:56 -0500
From: Diane Kelly <dkelly@acpub.duke.edu>
Subject: Enough, already!

I don't mean to sound like a potential censor, or a spoilsport, but . . .

All this whining about the New Era is starting to get tiresome!

It's one thing to _discuss_ the changes made -- how they affect play, how they
will work in your campaign, etc. -- it's another thing to _complain_ about
the alterations in the Traveller universe.  Constructive criticism is fine,
but these endless rounds of "TNE sucks!" "Does Not!" "Does too!" are starting
to get really boring.  Not to mention the waste of bandwidth.

GDW is not going to pull their TNE product line and start publishing the 
Little Black Books again.  Deal with it!

Jim Cambias
Who Likes The New Era
Misusing My Wife's Internet Account
At Duke Bio

------------------------------

Bundle: 560
Archive-Message-Number: 7041
From: Anthony "K." Baggaley <mcdapab@prawn.ch.umist.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 94 16:29:04 GMT
Subject: Star Vikings

Re: Path of Tears
  As Allen? Shock pointed out, the RCES are now described as a reasonably
"peaceful" and diplomatic group. You could always guess that it was
the intention of GDW to paint them in a good light, it was just that
all the previous descriptions of the Chicken Stealers in TNE tended
to show their "Ubermensch" (sp) attitude. Those who considered the
RCES to be self-serving totalitarian evangelicals trying to force
people to accept their twisted morality... certainly had a point-
but they never thought that was the whole story. 
  I think it's good that they HAVE finally shown the nice side of the
Star Vikings in more detail, and Path of Tears sounds a good book-
I would have difficulty running the RCES as good guys with the info
in TNE, and I do want to hear about it, for the following reason...
  As Traveller as gone on, it has certainly made it a tradition to
show both sides of the story for every society- it was always at the
GMs discretion whether to use good/bad (Zhodani/Solomani/K'Kree etc)
or simply "tell it as it is" and let the PCs decide, so doing the 
same for the RCES is to be expected 
  (and BTW- the two sides certainly applied to the Third Imperium,does
anyone remember how nasty it seemed in Adventure 1- The Kinunir?)
  
   Here's a big hello to the new, improved, nicer RCES. Some have been
using them from the start, some just wanted a bit more evidence than 
that given in TNE.

  And, Allen, it's a bit unfair to knock T:2000 to defend TNE- the
time in T:2000 is ALSO a time of rebuilding when looked at in an
optimistic way- most of the scenarios are "Help these people/ Do this
Mission because it will help to rebuild society"  it's just that most
of the time this involves breaking heads. Looked at that way the basic
TNE "smash and grab" missions do sound like T:2000 in space. TNE is
certainly "Dark" in the sense that things are still unpleasant out 
there, the problem is where PCs use this as an excuse to be amoral
mercenaries, which isn't the intention even in many other games that
have been labeled "Dark" (maybe so they will sell).
- -  fortunately in TNE it is clearly stated that the goal is to 
improve things (This is not too different to other "Dark" games-
Mike Pondsmith got fed up of PCs refusing to act as the heros he
expected in CP2020 so he wrote CyberGeneration, which says
clearly "things are bad, you have to improve them". TNE isn't out
there on it's own). 

                    ------------------------------------

and Simon Hibbs pointed out...
>As for the 'TNE is a load of crap' versus 'TNE is as good a background as
>any' debate. I realy don't give a toss. I will continue to buy what I want,
>raid for useable material then run whatever kind of game I like. Why can't
>everyone else just do that same and stop slaging off each other's campaign
>background.

  I think that pretty much says it all.

  (but I still think it was a good question for discussion)
                   
  and finally, for David Johnson-
      Star Vikings are what people call the RCES when they first arrive
      Arses are what people call the RCES when they have left
      Sir is what people call the RCES once they arrive to stay
      Regency is the new name for the Domain of Deneb, with slightly
      more democratic government and legal psionics. Norris set it
      rolling and was first Regent.
        
                                 I cann't believe I defended T:2000  
         
                                             Anthony K.
                              (someone must have been telling lies about me)

------------------------------

Bundle: 560
Archive-Message-Number: 7042
From: Anthony "K." Baggaley <mcdapab@prawn.ch.umist.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 94 17:16:50 GMT
Subject: Star Vikings

 I used to wonder how people managed to post the same message twice, well 
now I know- As I posted this message the first time the network failed big
time and I never got a reply, so I'm trying again... sorry if you read/
ignore it twice, VERY sorry if you pay to use Internet. I'll go now...

Re: Path of Tears
  As Allen? Shock pointed out, the RCES are now described as a reasonably
"peaceful" and diplomatic group. You could always guess that it was
the intention of GDW to paint them in a good light, it was just that
all the previous descriptions of the Chicken Stealers in TNE tended
to show their "Ubermensch" (sp) attitude. Those who considered the
RCES to be self-serving totalitarian evangelicals trying to force
people to accept their twisted morality... certainly had a point-
but they never thought that was the whole story. 
  I think it's good that they HAVE finally shown the nice side of the
Star Vikings in more detail, and Path of Tears sounds a good book-
I would have difficulty running the RCES as good guys with the info
in TNE, and I do want to hear about it, for the following reason...
  As Traveller as gone on, it has certainly made it a tradition to
show both sides of the story for every society- it was always at the
GMs discretion whether to use good/bad (Zhodani/Solomani/K'Kree etc)
or simply "tell it as it is" and let the PCs decide, so doing the 
same for the RCES is to be expected 
  (and BTW- the two sides certainly applied to the Third Imperium,does
anyone remember how nasty it seemed in Adventure 1- The Kinunir?)
  
   Here's a big hello to the new, improved, nicer RCES. Some have been
using them from the start, some just wanted a bit more evidence than 
that given in TNE.

  And, Allen, it's a bit unfair to knock T:2000 to defend TNE- the
time in T:2000 is ALSO a time of rebuilding when looked at in an
optimistic way- most of the scenarios are "Help these people/ Do this
Mission because it will help to rebuild society"  it's just that most
of the time this involves breaking heads. Looked at that way the basic
TNE "smash and grab" missions do sound like T:2000 in space. TNE is
certainly "Dark" in the sense that things are still unpleasant out 
there, the problem is where PCs use this as an excuse to be amoral
mercenaries, which isn't the intention even in many other games that
have been labeled "Dark" (maybe so they will sell).
- -  fortunately in TNE it is clearly stated that the goal is to 
improve things (This is not too different to other "Dark" games-
Mike Pondsmith got fed up of PCs refusing to act as the heros he
expected in CP2020 so he wrote CyberGeneration, which says
clearly "things are bad, you have to improve them". TNE isn't out
there on it's own). 
                    ------------------------------------

and Simon Hibbs pointed out...
>As for the 'TNE is a load of crap' versus 'TNE is as good a background as
>any' debate. I realy don't give a toss. I will continue to buy what I want,
>raid for useable material then run whatever kind of game I like. Why can't
>everyone else just do that same and stop slaging off each other's campaign
>background.

  I think that pretty much says it all.
  (but I still think it was a good question for discussion)
                   
  and finally, for David Johnson-
      Star Vikings are what people call the RCES when they first arrive
      Arses are what people call the RCES when they have left
      Sir is what people call the RCES once they arrive to stay
      Regency is the new name for the Domain of Deneb, with slightly
      more democratic government and legal psionics. Norris set it
      rolling and was first Regent.     
                                 I cann't believe I defended T:2000  
         
                                             Anthony K.
                              (someone must have been telling lies about me)

------------------------------

Bundle: 560
Archive-Message-Number: 7043
From: bc80076@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (bc80076)
Subject: solomani
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 14:48:12 -0500 (EST)

Hi folks
	I have a favor to ask. I have created a background for a
solomani pocket empire occuring around Sol. However for some reason
(probably my inexperience) I was unable to retrieve the data from the
archive on any sector. If someone could either send detailed
instructions for retrieving that data or the data itself it would be
greatly appreciated and if any are interested I could post a brief
summary of the history. My players seem to enjoy playing solomani
because of the really rich history
			Leigh O'Neil
			bc80076@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu

------------------------------

Bundle: 560
Archive-Message-Number: 7044
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 94 13:50:53 CST
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: TNE Background 5

Gentlesophonts:

Okay, we've pretty much established that TNE isn't much of an improvement over
CT/MT but since it's the only Traveller background being supported we've
begun to look at its details.
 
"Susan M. Shock" <34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> writes (about the Star
Vikings and *Path of Tears*):
 
> SPOILERS ABOUND, so skip this if you don't want to know this stuff.

> They DO take sides in struggles on the
> planets which are balkanized, siding with the least technophobic or xenophobic
> faction (or sometimes with the faction most friendly to the RC).

This is a definite advantage over the Imperium, IMHO.

> They are
> trying to establish a reasonably democratic interstellar government.

Another advantage.

> TNE is at heart an OPTIMISTIC setting; mankind is
> going back to the stars. The holocaust is ending; there is light at the end of
> the tunnel for the billions of humans who live in the Wilds. If not the RC,
> then the Regency, the Free Trader Network, or even the Guild, will rebuild
> some
> sort of society. All the RC is trying to do is hasten this process and have it
> come out better than the Imperium was.

>    I'm excited about the possibilities of my TNE campaign. My players'
> characters will need to learn to be diplomats and explorers as well as
> soldiers
> and they will learn it "on the job".

This is really of interest to me.  One of the `failings' of Traveller IMHO
has always been the focus on combat skills - hence the expanded character
generation for army, marines, navy and even scouts and merchants than could
be paramilitary characters.  This is a rules issue but (I'm beginning to be
swayed by Anthony "K." Baggaley's arguments) I feel this focus has always
been influenced by all those rules for handling combat and for all that
nifty iron-mongery.  Imagine a game with rules for `peaceful' conflict
resolution, negotition and such that were as in-depth as the combat rules
in Traveller (or any other RPG).

 
Matt Johnston <u9019138@athmail1.causeway.qub.ac.uk> writes: 
 
> The central point in all the ANTI-TNE arguements seems to be..
> 
> 	"But its not CT/MT/2300, Ct/MT/2300 was better..."

> "Okay you EVENTUALLY arrive at Gnepticon IV, your library computer,
> when consulted, says it is a large round pomegranite spinnng at

Etc.,

> constructed from bits of starship hulls and space station struts.
> make yer piloting rolls you lucky guys."

I know I'm beating a dead horse, but I think we've pretty much established
that all of the above could have taken place in a CT/MT campaign that was
removed a sector or two from the Imperium.  Please, let's move on to particular
details of TNE.

 
James Dening <james@camscan.co.uk> writes:

> BTW, has there been any backlash against software engineers due to the Virus?
> I mean, it's the classic scenario - God Squadders raving on about it being
> a punishment - we should never have learnt to program in the first place
> etc..., the unwashed masses setting fire to Workstations in the streets, 
> line printers being hounded out of town, modems and disk drives living 
> together in unmarried sin, RS-232 cables turning to drink and drugs... sorry,
> got carried away there!

This is a good idea.  It's like the Butlerian Jihad from *Dune* that led
to the abolition of computers and the rise of `mentats' - humans trained
to function as biological `computers'.  A similar theme in TNE would be
quite interesting.

 
Simon Hibbs <yfcw29@castle.edinburgh.ac.uk> writes (among other things):
 
> *** WARNING : RULES QUESTION ALERT ***
> 
Then some remarks on rules, and then:
> 
> *** RULES ALERT OVER ***

This is a great idea!  Can we make this a `rule' for discussions?  ;-)
I'm kidding, but Simon, you had me laughing out loud.  :-)
 
> TNE gives us an opportunity to live through a fascinating period in Imperial
> history. TNE is more than just savages fighting over the scraps of a fallen
> civilisation, it is about growth and renewal. Then, when we have fought the
> good fight and wrested civilisation from the jaws of barbarism, we can look
> forward to the wheel turning full circle. 'Traveller: The 4th Imperium'.
> Of course it will happen, can you seriously doubt it?

Of course this is what's in store.  And according to the above review of *Path
of Tears* GDW is already laying the groundwork.  I wonder if in five years
or so we won't have all the TNE devotees being `bashed' for being `old
timers' who `just don't want to change' because they're upset at the 
release of TFI (Traveller: The Fourth Imperium) which `abandons' TNE.  :-)
(Actually, I don't wonder.  This is a given as well.)

 
Matthew Goldman <goldman@orac.cray.com> writes:

> *Imperium* is gone.  There was lots and lots of space mapped outside
> the GDW private areas.  Since "The Vanguard Reaches" and "Beyond"
> sectors vanished off of the official GDW maps, I assume that they
> exist in the 'real Traveller' universe.  The universe where the virus
> never was.
> Even if the sectors were still in the official GDW universe, their
> citizens would still be safe. Good old Norris is protecting everyone
> Spin-corward of the Imperium from the virus.

This is true.  Anyone adventuring in these regions - despite the Virus?


Anthony "K." Baggaley <mcdapab@prawn.ch.umist.ac.uk> writes:
 
>     Straying slightly (only a bit, trust me) into the grey area between 
>  rules and background is the other large difference between the two
>  settings that I've mentioned before- the equipment. Even if CT and TNE
>  were identical in background, you'd notice a BIG difference in the
>  capabilities of weapons/armour/starships/vehicles- all the other 
>  changes tend to conceal them.

>  In an SFRPG
>  the technology is part of the background as much as the astrography.
>  With FF&S it is obvious that TNE has an advantage in this area, since
>  you can partly alter the technology to suit you game, but some people
>  might prefer the simplicity of the old Traveller...

>  Those small but
>  annoying changes can stop people changing over, it even stopped some 
>  people switching from CT to MT, never mind TNE.
>  TNE
>  does have good points in this background area.

This is a good point, as I mentioned above.  I've just sort of always
ignored these sorts of issues.  I've taken a page from Gene Roddenberry's book.
He was pressed early on by NBC to come up with explanations for things like
phasors - how they worked.  He refused (and nearly 30 years later we still
don't know) on the grounds that an explanation wasn't needed in order to have
a good story.  He used the example of Joe Friday and his .38.  He points
it at a bad guy, there's some indication of activation (a flash of light
and a lound crack - or a beam of light and a high-pitched whine for a phasor),
and the bad guy falls down.  No explanation necessary.

Nevertheless, I can see where rules (character generation makes more sense
to me than technology, but you get the point) *can* influence the nature of
the campaign background.  So, what sorts of effects on the background are
a result of the new TNE rules?  (But let's try not to argue about what the
rules are, or how they're marred - just focus on the result from a background
point of view.)

>    And, don't forget a lot of this list would even buy a broken Yugo
>  if GDW printed "TRAVELLER" on the hood :>             
>                                (and I did, he mutters)
>                                (twice, he mutters)

Me too (second-hand MT), but not twice (TNE), at least not yet . . . .  :-)

Okay, where are we?  We've started to discover the exploration opportunities
of the Space, er, Star Vikings of the Reformation Coalition.  And we've touched
on the effects of TNE technology rules on the campaign settings.  We've also
mentioned the aspects created by an aversion to computers and technology in
general.  And finally there's the gimmick of `positive' viral mutation
technologies.  All of these are avenues ripe for further discussion and 
development.

What about the other areas?  Adventure opportunities in the Regency and in
the Pocket Empires?  What are the Guild and the Free Trader Network?  What
about the Hivers?  The other Aliens?  The Zhodani and the Solomani?  Anybody
still *behind* this `black curtain' helping Lucan's descendants fight
WWIV with sticks and rocks?  Do tell!

Peace,

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA

------------------------------

Bundle: 560
Archive-Message-Number: 7045
Subject: All Of This Discussion
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 94 15:47:29 EST
From: Keeper Of The Lint <darkstar@chopin.udel.edu>


Okay, time for me to burn some bandwith with my personal opinions.

Here's what I think about TNE.  I love the new rules (except for the
loss of reactionless drives in "official" games--oh well, I've never
been too "official" anyway).

The setting.  Yes, now that the aggregate Tech Level of the galaxy has
fallen, the game does feel more like Twilight:5800 rather then
Traveller.  It doesn't have the same science fiction feel that CT or
even MT had.

Everyone seems to love the old CT setting because it was so stable. 
Personally, I loved MT, I thought that it provided a very interesting
mix of politics, location, and science fiction that you couldn't achieve
with the Frontier Wars.  But I digress...

The big problem that I have with TNE is that there is very little
support for anything but an RCES campaign.  Take a look at the stuff
that Loren said was being released over the next year or two.  All I see
is RCES stuff!  Guess what?  I don't like the RCES campaign setting! 
Why?  It's quite simple, it has a Tech Level that my campaign doesn't
want to play in.  We happen to like luxury over grim-and-gritty.  "Okay"
you say, "start the campaign in the Regency" you say.  I want to, but
where's all the nifty detail on it?  The odd glance that you get in the
TNE book is not enough to start a good in-depth.  I want UWP's, I want
patrons, I want a bunch of other things.  Get the picture.  Good,
because it doesn't seem like GDW does.

Why am I bitching and moaning?  It's not because I think that the RCES
is crap.  In fact, I disagree, I think that it's a very strong
campaign.  But (there's always a but), it's not the campaign for me. 
No, I don't view the RCES as only Star Vikings out to conquer.  But I
would rather play in a less military-oriented campaign.

I find this very upsetting.  When there was CT, GDW gave sectors to
specific publishers, and let them develop them.  Do you know how great
it was to have a wealth of info for anything from Ley Sector to The
Spinward Marches to wherever.  And then with MT, the concentration was
on the Spinward Marches and Deneb (originally).  But there was always
more then enough information on the rest of the Imperium, and no one
faction of the Rebellion was truly concentrated over another one.  And
there was always The Traveller's Digest/MegaTraveller Journal which had
a wealth of information for all parts of the galaxy, and all types of
players and campaigns.  Boy do I miss having a Traveller mag (at least,
and at last there's The Traveller Chronicle).

The more I see of TNE (and yes, I'm saying this after seeing all of the
releases for TNE), the more I wish that GDW did sell the rights for
Traveller to DGP.  Maybe then we could have had "Traveller:  The New
Era--Traveller Done Right."


	--Jerry


|>  Jerry Alexandratos             **  "vengo de la tierra del    <|
|>  darkstar@freezer.cns.udel.edu  **   fuego ten cuidado cuando  <|
|>  darkstar@bach.udel.edu         **   llamas mi nombre..."      <|

------------------------------

Bundle: 560
Archive-Message-Number: 7046
Subject: help
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 94 15:50:30 EST
From: Keeper Of The Lint <darkstar@chopin.udel.edu>


I was wondering if anyone can tell me what all of the ftp sites are
again?  I'm looking to pick up a copy of the latest errata and I can't
remember where I picked it up from last time...


	--Jerry


|>  Jerry Alexandratos             **  "vengo de la tierra del    <|
|>  darkstar@freezer.cns.udel.edu  **   fuego ten cuidado cuando  <|
|>  darkstar@bach.udel.edu         **   llamas mi nombre..."      <|

------------------------------

Bundle: 560
Archive-Message-Number: 7047
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 16:28:15 -0800
From: rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger)
Subject: T. Craig's VIRGINS

 
 
Dear T. Craig:
 
In answer to your question about what rules to use from your
extensive collection, my advice is to "pick and choose".
 
That is, the rules are basically modular, and can be mixed and
matched with relative ease.
 
Consider using the following selection of game components:
 
    As for campaign material, running your "virgins" through the
    classic adventures would allow you to review the game in
    general, and would give you time to study up on the new
    stuff.  Also, having run the material before, you should be
    more masterful with it -- you and your players would probably
    enjoy it more.
 
    Character generation -- keep it simple.  Since you are
    dealing with beginners, it's better to just hand your players
    a selection of premade characters (which would be easy for
    you to arbitrarily throw together without using any system)
    and let the players edit them a bit, rather than running them
    through a grueling hours-on-end generation session.
 
    Skills -- from any Traveller source.  More skills to choose
    from adds spice to the game, and to NPC's.  The list in
    MegaTravller's Players Manual is a good place to start.
 
    Equipment from any of your publications.  The more equipment
    to choose from, the better.
 
    Combat -- New era, if you have it.  Classic, otherwise.
    Note that in Classic Traveller, skill levels are valued in
    relation to the 8 required for success rolled on two 6-sided
    dice.  Therefore, rarely should a character be allowed to
    have more than a "3" in any skill level.  A skill-level of 5
    gives a 3/36 of failure, and a skill-6 gives a 1/36 chance of
    failure, so avoid these high levels like the plague.  In
    later rules editions (especially New Era), a wider range of
    probability for success/failure is used (20-sided die).
 
    Ships -- forget designing your own unless you have loads of
    time and are a glutton for punishment.  Ship descriptions,
    illustrations, and deckplans are strewn throughout the
    Classic material.  (Adventures 0, 1, 4, 6, 7, 10, 13, Double
    Adventures 1, 3, 5, JTAS 1, 8, Challenge 25, and Supplement
    5, and 7 all have ship deckplans in them).  Classic also
    contained juicy historical tidbits on the ships.
    MegaTraveller, on the other hand, contains very few
    deckplans, and even less background on the ships.
 
    Worlds -- MegaTraveller developed the most space.  There are
    several sector maps besides the Spinward Marches that have
    appeared here and there (in Digest Group's products,
    Challenge mag, etc.).  The Spinward Marches is still the most
    developed area, however.
 
    Aliens -- Aliens are virtually non-existent in MegaTraveller,
    though there weren't all that many more in Classic.
 
    Robots -- See 101 Robots, by Digest Group Publications.  'Nuff said.
 
 
Here are some playing tips:
 
    1)  Adlib (or gather or design in advance) some ALIENS for
    starship, starport, and world encounters.  Traveller
    adventure material is notably devoid of alien encounters,
    even though there are hundreds of alien species running
    around out there.  Interjecting aliens into game play and
    exposing your players to aliens and alien customs can enrich
    your campaign and provide lead-ins to interesting adventures
    later.
 
    The most likely places to run into aliens include:  Alien
    homeworlds, at starports (as starport personnel, travellers,
    or starship crew) trade centers, in alien-ethnic parts of
    town, taverns, mingling with the populace, and in space (on
    the comm viewscreen).
 
    2)  Adlib (or prepare in advance) some ROBOTS into your
    starport and world encounters.  Robots abound on TL 12 and
    better worlds.  Starships would also make heavy use of them,
    as would crews sent dirtside from such craft.  Don't forget
    that robots are a major feature in the scenery of starports,
    cities, installations, etc., on most TL12+ worlds.
 
    3)  Go through the adventure you plan to run IN ADVANCE.
    Prepare missing maps, floorplans, or deckplans of every place
    you expect your players will go.  Alternately, you could
    canabalize appropriate layouts from already existing
    published materials.  The maps and floorplans are essential
    for providing a common point of reference to base actions and
    reactions, making the scenario much easier to visualize, for
    you and your players.
 
    4)  Prepare your NPC's in advance, to give them more realism
    in play.  The more thought you give to their appearance,
    personality, and background, the more like real people they
    will seem to your players, and the easier it will be for them
    to visualize and interact with them.
 
Hope that helps.  Let me know if you found any of this useful.
 
                Sincerely,
                Roger Sanger
 

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