Subj: Traveller-digest V1999 #1277
Date: 10/29/99 6:52:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time
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Traveller-digest Friday, October 29 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 1277
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
OT: Mathematical help needed
RE: triste dia
Re: Yet more 3D work
Re: OT: Mathematical help needed
Re: Mathematical help needed
Re: Mathematical help needed
Re: Yet more 3D work
Test
Re: How many contacts to span the Imperium?
Re: Yet more 3D work
Re: Yet more 3D work
Jump-6 Yacht (Using FF&S2) [longish]
Re: Yet more 3D work
Re: Yet more 3D work
Re: How many contacts to span the Imperium?
Re: Yet more 3D work
Re: Yet more 3D work
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:51:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Prior
Subject: OT: Mathematical help needed
I need some mathematical advice. Sorry to clog bandwidth. Please respond to
the off-topic part offlist.
The Ontario government has come up with a new grading system for school
students. It is roughly as follows:
level 4 - exceeds expectations (>90%)
level 3 - meets expectation (75-90%)
level 2 - meets many expectation, but not all (60-75%)
level 1 - meets bare minimum of expectations (50-60%)
There is also a phantom "level 0", which is a failing grade. The
government expects level 4 to be rare, no more than 5% of the students;
only time will tell if they stick to their guns when parents arrive (with
lawyers) to argue for marks...
Anyway, my problem is that the government has provided no system for
combining marks from many evaluations into a final grade. Our instructions
are merely to use the "predominant" level, which is pretty vague and not
what we were promised. The new automated gradebook, which was supposed to
do this automatically, has been delayed again, and we have to provide marks
by November 15.
Can anyone provide me with a mathematically valid way of combining these
marks together? Mere averaging doesn't work, obviously. The percentage
equivalents I've provided are just guidelines - the actual marks are
arrived at by consulting descriptions of what that level of work should be
like. I'll provide more details via private email on request.
Professional note: if we use your idea, I'll make certain that you get
co-author status on our report.
ObTrav: There's got to be the seeds of a good adventure here. Something
with an impersonal bureaucracy, of course. I'll post something later this
weekend. Promise.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:56:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan
Subject: RE: triste dia
On Fri, 29 Oct 1999, Rob Brady wrote:
> Poets usually don't have any money, but this reminds me of a movie I saw
> once...
No, but sometimes the groups they inspire will pay to get them rescued.
> Hmm... The spaceship is idling on the tarmac of the downport formerly
> held by Solomani, but recently overrun by the Imperium. The formerly
> incorrigible spaceport saloon keeper (reminds one of Han Solo, just in
> it for the money) is now saying the wife (played by Ingrid Bergman) of
> the great Solomani poet, Victor Lazlo, "And you never will. But I've
> got a job to do, too. And where I'm going you can't follow. What I've
> got to do, you can't be any part of. Ilsa, I'm no good at being noble,
> but it doesn't take much to see that the problems of three little
> people don't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world. Some day
> you'll understand that. Here's looking at you, kid."
>
LOL...
I love that movie...
Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..." -- X-JAPAN
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:58:03 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Yet more 3D work
Where did you get that graphic...it sure _looks_ rendered to me...the
model might be Out There...
Shimmergloom wrote:
>
> any of you 3D gods out there wanna do a custom (charity) job for me? lol...
>
> I'd like to get a 3D version of the station located at....
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:58:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: OT: Mathematical help needed
Robert Prior writes:
> Can anyone provide me with a mathematically valid way of combining these
> marks together? Mere averaging doesn't work, obviously. The percentage
> equivalents I've provided are just guidelines - the actual marks are
> arrived at by consulting descriptions of what that level of work should be
> like. I'll provide more details via private email on request.
Define 'mathematically valid'. Simple averaging is not clearly wrong.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 20:12:28 -0400
From: "Eric Freitas"
Subject: Re: Mathematical help needed
Rob,
I'm sorry to hear about this. I'm probably one of the many on this list
that
believes in a good education, and holding the students accountable for their
performance. This grading system appears to remove any form of
competition and sense of accomplishment. If the final grade has no basis
in the students' performance for that period of time, then this becomes a
matter of giving the student a mark based upon nothing.
This move looks like a major cave in to political correctness. In the
short
term this will hurt the students, but in the long run it will hurt Canada.
Sorry about the math. I won't be able to help you there. Maybe some
sort
of Random number generator will give you a perfect bell curve. According
to your description of how the grading system is supposed to work, I
wouldn't
worry about trying to match it to the students performance. It doesn't
really
matter.
Just my 0.02 cents. Please don't take this as an attempt to bash
Canada.
I don't particularly have a warm spot in my heart for the American
government
either.
Oh, wait a minute I hear someone knocking... Hey they look an awful lot
like barbarians...
Eric
- -----Original Message-----
From: Robert Prior
To: Traveller Mailing List
Date: Friday, October 29, 1999 7:51 PM
Subject: OT: Mathematical help needed
>I need some mathematical advice. Sorry to clog bandwidth. Please respond to
>the off-topic part offlist.
>
>The Ontario government has come up with a new grading system for school
>students. It is roughly as follows:
>
>level 4 - exceeds expectations (>90%)
>level 3 - meets expectation (75-90%)
>level 2 - meets many expectation, but not all (60-75%)
>level 1 - meets bare minimum of expectations (50-60%)
>
>There is also a phantom "level 0", which is a failing grade. The
>government expects level 4 to be rare, no more than 5% of the students;
>only time will tell if they stick to their guns when parents arrive (with
>lawyers) to argue for marks...
>
>Anyway, my problem is that the government has provided no system for
>combining marks from many evaluations into a final grade. Our instructions
>are merely to use the "predominant" level, which is pretty vague and not
>what we were promised. The new automated gradebook, which was supposed to
>do this automatically, has been delayed again, and we have to provide marks
>by November 15.
>
>Can anyone provide me with a mathematically valid way of combining these
>marks together? Mere averaging doesn't work, obviously. The percentage
>equivalents I've provided are just guidelines - the actual marks are
>arrived at by consulting descriptions of what that level of work should be
>like. I'll provide more details via private email on request.
>
>Professional note: if we use your idea, I'll make certain that you get
>co-author status on our report.
>
>
>ObTrav: There's got to be the seeds of a good adventure here. Something
>with an impersonal bureaucracy, of course. I'll post something later this
>weekend. Promise.
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 20:19:12 -0400
From: "Eric Freitas"
Subject: Re: Mathematical help needed
Oops, sorry about sending that message to the list. I wouldn't
have quoted the entire message.
Eric
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 20:22:01 -0400
From: "Eric Freitas"
Subject: Re: Yet more 3D work
Hey, is this how life was started on Earth billions of years ago?
- -----Original Message-----
>smiles with fondness as he remember his 'inhabited' near-c rock scenario
>
>----------------------------------------------
>he he he he he he he he he he he he
>
> Shimmer
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 17:31:46 -0700
From: "Wayne Ewart"
Subject: Test
Test
My e-mail account with @home some how got dumped and I've been told it
should work now.
Wayne
wewart@home.com
Give a man fire and he is warm for the night.
Set a man on fire and he is warm all his life.
- - Terry Pratchett
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:36:20 -0500
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: How many contacts to span the Imperium?
Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
<>
> I
> have ONE friend in Indonesia, but we're not as close as we used to be
> because she doesn't like Hiroshi.)
How did your friend manage to meet the first ruler of the Second
Imperium, and what did she find objectionable about him?
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:37:10 -0500
From: Shimmergloom
Subject: Re: Yet more 3D work
Do you really want to hear about the scenario? I have posted it to the list
before and don't want to bore people.
Eric Freitas wrote:
> Hey, is this how life was started on Earth billions of years ago?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >smiles with fondness as he remember his 'inhabited' near-c rock scenario
> >
> >----------------------------------------------
> >he he he he he he he he he he he he
> >
> > Shimmer
- --
- ----------------------------------------------
he he he he he he he he he he he he
Shimmer
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:39:19 -0500
From: Shimmergloom
Subject: Re: Yet more 3D work
it comes from a Star Trek mailing list I am on. I'll have to look into that.
Thanks for the thought.
Bruce Johnson wrote:
> Where did you get that graphic...it sure _looks_ rendered to me...the
> model might be Out There...
>
> Shimmergloom wrote:
> >
> > any of you 3D gods out there wanna do a custom (charity) job for me? lol...
> >
> > I'd like to get a 3D version of the station located at....
>
> --
> Bruce Johnson
> University of Arizona
> College of Pharmacy
> Information Technology Group
- --
- ----------------------------------------------
he he he he he he he he he he he he
Shimmer
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 20:13:07 -0500
From: Black ICE
Subject: Jump-6 Yacht (Using FF&S2) [longish]
AuricTech Shipyards is pleased to announce the latest in high-speed,
high-luxury travel: The _Greyhound_ class fast yacht. This 100-dton
ship is designed to meet the needs of nobles and businessmen who must
swiftly travel long distances to maintain their interests. At a cost of
only MCr 48.695, _Greyhound_ can travel six parsecs per week, carrying
two sophonts in luxury, or up to four sophonts in comfort. On-board
fuel refining, combined with gas-giant skimming capability, ensures that
_Greyhound_ will not be delayed by the search for refined fuel. Note
that a less-luxurious version of _Greyhound_ (with identical performance
and capacity) can be built for only MCr 40.579 (MCr 36.521 for bulk
purchases). For further details, see the technical specifications
below. "Res Ipsa Loquitur."
AuricTech Shipyards _Greyhound_ Fast Yacht
Tons: 100 std (SL Short Rounded Cylinder Hypersonic)
Dimensions: 19.8 m x 9.9 m x 9.9 m
Volume: 1400 m3
Cargo: 3 std (1 hatches, Hdl: 1 x 4 t)
Mass (L/C): 539 t / 445 t
Maintenance Points: 17
Passengers High/Med: 2 High
Crew: 2 / 4
Frozen Watch: 0
Cost: 48.695 MCr (Cost Multiplier 1.2)
Tech Level: 15
Size: 8
Electronics
Controls: Holographic, High automation. 4 x FltComp (CM: .35 CP: 2.86).
4 x Comp (CM: .35 CP: 2.86). No bridge.
Communications: 2 x Radio (500 kkm, 0.17 MW). 4 x Laser (1,000 AU, 0
MW).
Sensors: 1xPEMS (12.5 [1.6 mkm], 0 MW). 1xAEMS (11 [.16 mkm] LP, .05
MW).
Survey/Science: None
ECM: None
Signatures: Vis: -1, IR: 0 (-0.5 at 15 MW), Act: 0, Neu: 0, Grav: -1
Performance
6 Jump (60 std/pc fuel)
1 / 1.2 Maneuver (Thruster: 13 MW)
1 / 1.2 Contra-grav (9 MW)
1972 kph/2356 kph Atmosphere Maximum
1479 kph/1767 kph Atmosphere Cruise
1 Power (Fusion: 153 MW,1yr)
0 Battery
61.1 Fuel (Scoop:2 / Purif: 21, 1 MW)
4/2/0/2 Accommodations (SmStRoom/LargeStRoom/Low Berth/Emgy Low Berth)
80 Life Sup. (Type:Extended, Excellent Food/Storage)
1 G-Comp
0 [20] Armor, 6 Structure
Weapons: None
Features:
1 x Airlock
2 x Ship's locker (.05 std ea.)
1 x Full Galley (Cap: 8 each)
Small Craft: None
Backups
Drives: None
Screens: None
Communications:
Sensors: None
ECM: None
Power & Fuel: None
Crew Details: 2 x Maneuver. 1 x Medical. 1 x Steward.
Designer's Notes:
First, I wanted to try designing a 100-dton Jump-6 ship, that had some
actual utility (a bit of cargo and passenger space). Next, I tried to
imagine who would purchase such a ship. Governments would probably be
interested (hence the MCr 40.579/MCr 36.521 "stripped" variant). I also
believe that there would be a market in M:1100 for a jump-6 personal
transport. Those potential buyers would likely prefer highly
comfortable accomodations, which is why I used a cost multiplier of 1.2
(to account for luxurious furnishings).
Comments, anyone?
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:14:45 -0400
From: "Micheal D. Peters"
Subject: Re: Yet more 3D work
Humm, where and how to start... There are probably as many answers as there
are 3d players out there! I don't think more than 3 of us use the same
software. I started playing with a "free" version (magazine cd) of poser 1
and Truespace 2 I believe. The magazine was Computer Arts and I think they
may still have the issue with the program as a back order.
Almost unknown to me I already had one 3d program, Corel 3d Dream that came
with my Corel 6 package. After "cutting my teeth on Truespace, I went back
and hit the Corel books and that program, Since Truespace didn't have a
manual I missed a lot of truely GOOD things while tinkering with it, I found
out about many of them thriugh the Corel Dream manual.
By luck I found someone that was looking to get rid of the RayDream 5.2
package, the big brother version to Corel Dream. This was an easier
transition, but now Metacreations is brining out a totally new 3d program,
incorperatin parts of Raydream, parts of Infinity D (?) and an interface
similar to the new poser and Bryce interface. So now I have to decide
whither I want to "upgrade" to another program, and is Carrara (MC's
program) the right one.
Lightwave, as Jesse uses it, seems to have some real advantages, but at a
very high cost. Of course the program doesn't do it all... even with it I
doubt that I'd be in Jesse's league (well I can wish, but..), so is it worth
the money? Probably not at this time...
Well, that's how I started playing with this stuff, and it now consumes MOST
of my free time! My wife uses the names of several 3d artists on this list
as if they contained ony 4 letters... and says that they are going to be
named in the divorce papers, but dang if it isn't fun!!!
Mike
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Shimmergloom
To:
Sent: Friday, October 29, 1999 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: Yet more 3D work
> Hey, don't feel bad. At least you get end products.
>
> I really wan to try some of this. How does one get started? What
software has
> the best balance of ease of use and usefulness? any advice you Masters
would
> give to anyone foolish enough to think he can join you?
>
> Tommy Grav wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 29 Oct 1999, Shane Nicholas Thomas wrote:
> >
> > >This 3D business is definately not as easy as Jesse (and others) make
it
> > >look!
> >
> > Well you seem to have the business down, for those pictures look very
good.
> > Nice compsition and realistic lighting.
> >
> > You are far beyond me in this, and I have used many hours to try to
> > understand this, but have a very poor artistic sense. I can get the
> > 3D objects to look decent, but have no clue about composition of
> > images, so the end product always look disappointing :-(
> >
> > >Shane
> >
> > Tommy Grav
> > -------------------------------------------------------------
> > tommy.grav@astro.uio.no http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/
> > Institute of Astrophysics, UiO, No
> > IMTU tn++t4+tg+ ru+ge++ !3i jt+au+st+ls hi++dr-so++zh-sy-sw++
> >
>
> --
> ----------------------------------------------
> he he he he he he he he he he he he
>
> Shimmer
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 20:34:00 -0500
From: Shimmergloom
Subject: Re: Yet more 3D work
I will look for that computer Arts issue. How much of an artist do you have to
be? Do these programs do the framework for you or do you have to draw that
yourself?
"Micheal D. Peters" wrote:
> Humm, where and how to start... There are probably as many answers as there
> are 3d players out there! I don't think more than 3 of us use the same
> software. I started playing with a "free" version (magazine cd) of poser 1
> and Truespace 2 I believe. The magazine was Computer Arts and I think they
> may still have the issue with the program as a back order.
>
> Almost unknown to me I already had one 3d program, Corel 3d Dream that came
> with my Corel 6 package. After "cutting my teeth on Truespace, I went back
> and hit the Corel books and that program, Since Truespace didn't have a
> manual I missed a lot of truely GOOD things while tinkering with it, I found
> out about many of them thriugh the Corel Dream manual.
>
> By luck I found someone that was looking to get rid of the RayDream 5.2
> package, the big brother version to Corel Dream. This was an easier
> transition, but now Metacreations is brining out a totally new 3d program,
> incorperatin parts of Raydream, parts of Infinity D (?) and an interface
> similar to the new poser and Bryce interface. So now I have to decide
> whither I want to "upgrade" to another program, and is Carrara (MC's
> program) the right one.
>
> Lightwave, as Jesse uses it, seems to have some real advantages, but at a
> very high cost. Of course the program doesn't do it all... even with it I
> doubt that I'd be in Jesse's league (well I can wish, but..), so is it worth
> the money? Probably not at this time...
>
> Well, that's how I started playing with this stuff, and it now consumes MOST
> of my free time! My wife uses the names of several 3d artists on this list
> as if they contained ony 4 letters... and says that they are going to be
> named in the divorce papers, but dang if it isn't fun!!!
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Shimmergloom
> To:
> Sent: Friday, October 29, 1999 7:39 PM
> Subject: Re: Yet more 3D work
>
> > Hey, don't feel bad. At least you get end products.
> >
> > I really wan to try some of this. How does one get started? What
> software has
> > the best balance of ease of use and usefulness? any advice you Masters
> would
> > give to anyone foolish enough to think he can join you?
> >
> > Tommy Grav wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, 29 Oct 1999, Shane Nicholas Thomas wrote:
> > >
> > > >This 3D business is definately not as easy as Jesse (and others) make
> it
> > > >look!
> > >
> > > Well you seem to have the business down, for those pictures look very
> good.
> > > Nice compsition and realistic lighting.
> > >
> > > You are far beyond me in this, and I have used many hours to try to
> > > understand this, but have a very poor artistic sense. I can get the
> > > 3D objects to look decent, but have no clue about composition of
> > > images, so the end product always look disappointing :-(
> > >
> > > >Shane
> > >
> > > Tommy Grav
> > > -------------------------------------------------------------
> > > tommy.grav@astro.uio.no http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/
> > > Institute of Astrophysics, UiO, No
> > > IMTU tn++t4+tg+ ru+ge++ !3i jt+au+st+ls hi++dr-so++zh-sy-sw++
> > >
> >
> > --
> > ----------------------------------------------
> > he he he he he he he he he he he he
> >
> > Shimmer
> >
> >
- --
- ----------------------------------------------
he he he he he he he he he he he he
Shimmer
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:46:05 -0700
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan"
Subject: Re: How many contacts to span the Imperium?
From: Black ICE
>Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
>
><>
>
>> I have ONE friend in Indonesia, but we're not as close as we used to be
because she doesn't like Hiroshi.)
>>
>
>
>How did your friend manage to meet the first ruler of the Second
>Imperium, and what did she find objectionable about him?
>
>
>
Um, I introduced them, remember that Six Degrees of whomever game we were
playing? Didn't know my web was that extensive didja?
She doesn't like his religious beliefs, or rather lack of them. And she
doesn't understand aspects of our relationship that are not to be discussed
on the Traveller Mailing List.
Wow, does this mean I'm gonna get to be EMPRESS???
(I totally forgot that there was an Emperor named Hiroshi. Well, I think my
Hiroshi would make a great Emperor. It would be an Imperium filled with
great porn, trashy media, and marvellous music... and the fashions! WOW!)
LOL, Kiri
"it's good to be Queen, but it's better to be Empress..."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God...
tiamat@tsoft.com
the current fair warnings:
"No matter what, expect the unexpected. And whenever
possible, BE the unexpected." -- Lynda Barry
"Honest to the point of recklessness, and self-centered
in the extreme." -- Robert Hunter/Jerry Garcia
"God sent me to piss the world off!" -- Eminem
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:44:53 -0700
From: Jesse DeGraff
Subject: Re: Yet more 3D work
First attempt? Get out!! Those shots are VERY nice, regardless of 1st or
100th attempt. The Mars texture you used isn't all that hot, but otherwise
they're very nice.
Great job, and keep 'em coming!
Jesse
- -----Original Message-----
From: Shane Nicholas Thomas
To: Traveller Mailing List
Date: Friday, October 29, 1999 11:50 AM
Subject: Yet more 3D work
>Jesse has a lot to answer for! Like a number of others here on the TML,
>his wonderful pictures has made me have a go myself. Far too many hours
>later, the first fruits are ready for public consumption, praise, ridicule,
>whatever, and can be seen at
>
>http://traveller.cjb.net/
>
>There are currently three pictures of my attempt at modelling Daedalus, the
>British Interplanetary Societ's proposal for an interstellar craft.
>
>This 3D business is definately not as easy as Jesse (and others) make it
>look!
>
>ObTrav: Pre-jump spacefaring societies...
>
>Hmmm. I think I may just have to find my copy of FF&S and try to come up
>with some specs.
>
>Shane
>
>--
>Shane Thomas I thought I saw the light at the end of
>shane.thomas@traveller.cjb.net the tunnel, but it was only a bastard
> with a torch bringing me more work...
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:49:10 -0700
From: Jesse DeGraff
Subject: Re: Yet more 3D work
While you don't have to be a conventional artist to do 3D work, it
definately helps (as you found out :) I'd suggest a trip down to the
library or book store for something as simple as a basic drawing book. Most
of these introduce things like perspective, the rule of threes, etc., and
can definately help you improve your shots Tommy.
Best,
Jesse
- -----Original Message-----
From: Tommy Grav
To: Traveller Mailing List
Date: Friday, October 29, 1999 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: Yet more 3D work
>On Fri, 29 Oct 1999, Shane Nicholas Thomas wrote:
>
>>This 3D business is definately not as easy as Jesse (and others) make it
>>look!
>
>Well you seem to have the business down, for those pictures look very good.
>Nice compsition and realistic lighting.
>
>You are far beyond me in this, and I have used many hours to try to
>understand this, but have a very poor artistic sense. I can get the
>3D objects to look decent, but have no clue about composition of
>images, so the end product always look disappointing :-(
>
>>Shane
>
>Tommy Grav
>-------------------------------------------------------------
>tommy.grav@astro.uio.no http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/
>Institute of Astrophysics, UiO, No
>IMTU tn++t4+tg+ ru+ge++ !3i jt+au+st+ls hi++dr-so++zh-sy-sw++
>
>
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1277
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Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:51:08 -0400 (EDT)
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From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)
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Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #1277
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