
Traveller-digest     Thursday, October 28 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1270



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller: Aberrant jump drives (was Re: Just say "no" to lhyd)
RE: 3D starbases
RE: TML Members as resources
RE: Taxation
RE: TML Members as resources
Re: Re Level 0 and CT 
Re: Freezing in the Aleutians 
Shipping low-value goods (was Re: Just say "no" ...)
Re: BD Crush Depth
Re: Another game company bites the dust
Re: 3D starbases
Re: Newtsuit (was: Re: Freezing in the Aleutians)
Re: 3D starbases
Re: Just say "no" to lhy for Jump drives
Re: Just say "no" to lhy for Jump drives
Re: Antimatter Drives
SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Hobby Skills
Re: HOW tactical are a ship's lasers?
Re: TML Members as resources
RE: The Baron Population Bomb

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:49:29 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller: Aberrant jump drives (was Re: Just say "no" to lhyd)

In mail you write:

> Here are the rules I am using to develop the concept.
>
> * No lhyd required for jumps.
> * Jumps should take a week +/- several hours.
> * There should be a (significant) minimum size on starships.
> * There should jump routes and choke points.
> * There should be no jumping to truly empty hexes
>   (a little wiggle room here for brown dwarfs).
> * Jump destinations should be relatively close
>   to a star or other hugely massive object. No
>   jumping from system to system via the Oort clouds
>   or outer planets.
> * There should be some required time in realspace between jumps.
>   Up to several hours.
> * Ideally, one shouldn't get to jump from 100 diameters
>   to 100 diameters of each world. Instead, one jumps
>   from 100 diameters to x distance from the destination star.

But you *should* be able to jump to a *specific* point at x distance
from the destination star (give or take some error factor). Otherwise
commerce becomes a real pain.

Also, you need to consider how efficient (or not) realspace drives are.
If they are efficient enough that the inability to "microjump" insystem
doesn't affect transit times much, you need to deal with the "near c
rock" scenario. If they are less efficient, then ships either is
*really* low thrust drives at "constant thrust" for interplanetary
trips, or they use high thrust drives briefly at each end and coast in
between. Either way, the trips take weeks to years. 

And yes, you could jump outsystem, then jump back. But that *really*
messes up insystem commerce and in-system defence.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:00:26 -0700
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: RE: 3D starbases

Crap, hadn't thought of that :)  Scott O'Brien's (TechnoGeek) site is listed
in my links area.

Best,
Jesse
www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/trav_welcome.htm
"Striving to Produce a Better (Illustrated) Traveller Universe" (tm)



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of
> david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 11:04 PM
> To: traveller@mpgn.com
> Subject: Re: 3D starbases
>
>
> Dear Folks -
>
> Thomas replied to "Shimmer" thusly:
> >>With all the talk of 3D modeling on here recently I have not seen any
> >>bases or space stations.  I am trying to create an image map and was
> >>wondering if there are any pictures of space stations in 3D out there.
> >
> >nothing in 3d !!!!That I know of.
>
> Talk to Jesse or look through his site. He used someone's
> space-station in the
> background of a number of his renderings (with credit and permission, of
> course!). I *think* he has a link to the station's creator on his site
> somewhere.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
> http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
> "I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
> of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
> position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:00:28 -0700
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: RE: TML Members as resources

Not that has been discovered :)
Jesse




> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of
> Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 6:14 AM
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: Re: TML Members as resources
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >>>Well, as an Atheist and Archaeologist, I would guess that it's
> in Exodus
>
> >> Exodus 20, to be precise.
>
> >Interestingly, anyone with a smattering of Greek could guess one place to
> >find the Commandments.  'Deuteronomy' comes from words meaning 'second'
> >and 'law' because it's the second book (after Exodus) in which the
> >Commandments appear.  Interestingly, the two forms are slightly
> different,
> >though only in wording, not intent.
>
>
>
> Good grief.  Is there any subject concerning which someone on this list
> *doesn't* possess erudite knowledge?
>
> :-)
>
> tc
>
>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:52:08 -0700
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: Taxation

> From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>

> Just thought I'd mention this to frighten people. In Western Australia,
> where I live, the state government is considering raising Stamp Duty (A
> State Tax) on the forthcoming Goods and Services Tax (A 10% across the
> board
> Federal Tax) In other words if this goes through we here in Western
> Australia will be paying a tax for the priviledge of paying another tax.
> If this was in Traveller I could imagine a mass revolt.

In Traveller, there would already have been a mass revolt when the
government started asking people to give up their guns in response to
the mass murder in Tasmania.  The PCs would have been involved in
finding (or, if necessary, creating) evidence that it was actually a
conspiracy to get the population to disarm itself to pave the way for a
coup or off-world takeover.    

- --Glenn

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:28:50 -0700
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: TML Members as resources

> From: Thom Jones-Low <tjoneslo@together.net>
> I'll try this little exercise:

Me, too:

Glenn M. Goffin, Lawyer

679BD9 age 41 (about 6 terms, but nonstandard career path)

Handgun-0
Rifle-0 (civilian, not military)
Dagger-0
Foil-0 (could go back to -3 with practice)
Melee combat / martial arts-2
Archery-0

Wheeled vehicle-3 (from bicycle to 2-ton truck; not motorcycle)
Small boat-1 (motorized & paddle)
Skiing: cross-country and telemark-2 (could go back to -4 with practice)

Wilderness survival-1
Swimming-3
Ballroom dance-1

Legal-5
Admin-1
Streetwise-1
Liaison-2
Carousing-2
Gambling-1

Computer-0

Languages:  Several Terran languages

Degrees:  Bachelor of Arts, History; Juris Doctor

(Level-0 indicates sufficient familiarity to avoid negative DM, but not
enough skill for positive DM.)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 01:19:37 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com>
Subject: Re: Re Level 0 and CT 

> At 04:45 PM 10/26/99 -0400, you wrote:
> >Funny, every version of CT I've seen has 0-level skills.... see weapons
> >expertise (Traveller Book, p21) and the section on default skills, (ibid,
> 
> The version of CT I bought at age 11 or 12 came in a small black box that
> contained 3 books. I don't own anything called "Traveller Book".

"The Traveller Book", aka "the BBL", is LBB's 1 through 3 in one 8.5x11 
hardcover book.  I've got a copy of it, and last time I looked in the box, 
only LBB2 of my original set.  *(
 
Keven

- -- 
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 01:22:52 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com>
Subject: Re: Freezing in the Aleutians 

> >Now *that* is an image to to make your players appreciate "cold"!
> 
> Two words: "Rura Penthe". 
> 
> For those few of you who don't recognize the reference, it's the
> Klingon prison planet to which Kirk and McCoy were sent in Star Trek
> VI. It also bears a surprising resemblance to the weather here in
> Edmonton in the middle of the winter -- we usually get a short stretch
> of weather where the overnight low hits or passes -40°. 

Kinda reminds me of Centennial, Wyoming.  We had a couple inches of snow one sunny July afternoon (it's way the hell back up in the mountains), and a tourist screwed up and asked one of my uncles when summer was.

My uncle, being the smartass he was, said, "Summer?  Summer?  Oh, *SUMMER*.  That's the day we play softball!"

Keven

- -- 
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 01:00:20 -0500 (CDT)
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Shipping low-value goods (was Re: Just say "no" ...)

>Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:19:52 -0500 ()
>From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
>Subject: Re: Just say "no" to lhy for Jump drives
> 
>>       Huge change here.  Little fuel to buy, lots of cargo
>>       space, no problems with unrefined fuel: the rates for
>>       carrying cargo or passengers would tend to drop.
>
>Yes. This is okay, though. I want space travel to be cheaper, and
>shipments like raw ore or grain to make more sense.

Actually, this doesn't make any more sense in the real world: the
cost to ship those items is literally more than they cost themselves. So
why do they keep moving?

Jim Maclean probably knew all this when we were writing Far Trader, but I
just recently found an explanation that made sense to me in a book on the
economics of shipping. There are two parts:

(1) What are the good worth at their destination? If the cost of the goods
at the source plus the cost of transportation is less than this, you can
always ship at a profit even if transporation costs are something like 95%
of the total. This works particularly well from low-TL to high-TL worlds,
because the higher standard of living drives the cost of even basic raw
materials up (how much do you have to pay miners or lumberjacks, just so
they can make a living?).

(2) There is a conspiracy on the part of shippers. No, really. Shipping
conferences are organizations of shippers working on a particular route,
designed to head off lethal rate wars by setting standardized rates that
everyone can live with. These conferences also realize that low-value
goods still need to move, so they deliberately set the rates for
high-value goods too high and use the difference to subsidize low-value
goods. Jim explicitly assumes that something similar operates in
Traveller.


   

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:39:53 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: BD Crush Depth

In mail you write:

> At 06:36 PM 10/26/99 PST, you wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>> I have been trying to figure the frame strength required for ships
>>> given a G rating. I presume there is some way of converting crush
>>> depth force to equate to an acceleration force. One atmosphere = 1
> kg
>>> per square cm.
>>
>>That's 1 kg*f* per square cm. Or 9.8 newtons.
>
>         Huh? 1 atm=101.3 kPa=101.3 kN/m^2=1.013 N/cm^2

Nope. For one thing, the conversion factor from m^2 to cm^2 is 10,000,
not 100.

From the CRC Handbook 79th ed., Conversion factors.

from			to		multiply by
- ----------------------	-------------	----------------
atmosphere (standard)	pascal (Pa)	1.013 250*E+05
atmosphere (technical
	= 1 kgf/cm^2)	pascal (Pa)	9.806 650*E+04
bar			pascal (Pa)	1.000 000*E+05
kilogram-force (kgf)	newton (N)	9.806 650*E+00
kgf/cm^2		pascal (Pa)	9.806 650*E+04
kgf/m^2			pascal (Pa)	9.806 650*E+00

* = conversion factor is exact

So:

pressure	std. atm.	bar		Pa.		kgf/m^2
- --------------	----------	----------	----------	----------
standard atm.	1.000000	1.013250	1.013250e5	1.033227e5
1 bar		0.986923	1.000000	1.000000e5	1.019716e5
technical atm.	0.967841	0.980665	0.980665e5	1.000000e5

I expect that the imperial "standard atmosphere" will be 1 bar. But the
shortcut "technical atmosphere" will still be useful for "back of the
envelope" calculations.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:19:27 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Another game company bites the dust

>From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
>Subject: Re: Another game company bites the dust
...
>Well, according to the _Pyramid_ Web site, the sale is indeed a hoax to
>stir up interest in Hunter: The Reckoning.

  Drat - and I'd been hoping that their next offering in the "super-hero
game with a `tude" line-up would be _Wereboar: The Aporkalypse"...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 01:15:56 -0500
From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: 3D starbases

Jesse DeGraff wrote:

> Crap, hadn't thought of that :)  Scott O'Brien's (TechnoGeek) site is listed
> in my links area.

Regrettably I got a 404 error when I tried that link.  However, i must say that
your stuff is amazing.  I have just started trying to do some 3d work and I am
overjoyed when i can get an object to line up straight.  Been trying to produce
my own space station and I have to as how you do that.
- --
- ----------------------------------------------
he he he he he he he he he he he he

      Shimmer

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:30:29 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Newtsuit (was: Re: Freezing in the Aleutians)

>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
>Subject: Newtsuit (was: Re: Freezing in the Aleutians)
...
>Here is the URL for Nuytco, the suit's designers:
>     http://www.eskimo.com/~nuytco/index.html

  Here's a battlepod equivalent rated for 600m:
        http://www.eskimo.com/~nuytco/deepworker.html

        http://www.eskimo.com/~nuytco/exosuit.html
  - seems to indicate projected operations to 200m for current hardsuit designs.
  Hmm, face-plates: "Tear-drop shaped, acrylic dome port" - Zho sypathizers?

...
>Hard Suits Incorporated
>Products/Services: ADS (Atmospheric Diving Suits), Newtsuits, and support
equipment.
>
>      Hard Suits Incorporated is a manufacturing and servicing company that
>provides diving equipment support services to the military and offshore oil a
...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:09:22 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: 3D starbases

Dear Folks -

"Shimmer" asked:
>> Talk to Jesse or look through his site.
>
>what is that url?

What? You haven't seen Jesse's work?!!!

[Well, there's a link to his page on my site, actually... (shameless plug)]

OK, OK, the direct URL is:
     http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/trav_welcome.htm

Search "The Traveller Gallery" for the "Highport Traffic" pic. Also look through
his links page for many more Lightwave sites.

...and Scott O'Brien, the guy who did the 'port, used to be at:
     http://members.xoom.com/Zone5/tg_home.htm

but this site is now missing.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:32:42 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Just say "no" to lhy for Jump drives

In mail you write:

>>Can the jump capacitors be charged up before exiting
>>jump space?
>
> I don't like it, but possibly. I am having a hard time thinking of a
> handwave to prevent this. I would like them to have to spend some time in
> realspace between jumps -- but I suppose you could make a ship with a power
> plant so big that you could fill the capacitors in a second anyway sooo...

Simple enough answer to both. They (or the way they store energy)
involves doing odd things to the structure of spacetime. Thus, charging
them inside a jump bubble is *assumed* to destroy ships because no ship
that has ever planned to try it has ever been heard of again. Except
for a couple that had equipment failures before they could start the
recharge. 

Thus, the merest *hint* that you plan on doing this is a good way to
induce a mutiny. 

On second thought, to prevent a "bomb" consisting of a portable power
plant and a jump capacitor, hidden in a cargo container along with a
timer, let's say that *nasty* but non-fatal things start happening. And
you've got say, 30-90 minutes to find and (carefully) discharge such a
gizmo. 

This has the added bonus of letting you declare that you can't get
closer than 5-10 diameters with charged capacitors. This *does*
eliminate the "kill yourself by jumping from the surface" bit, but it
prevents landing with charged capacitors.

> Hmm. Perhaps each jump requires astrogation observations and calculations
> that can take up to a couple of hours to perform.

Well, we already have evidence that taking longer improves accuracy
(the "co-ordinated jump" rule that allows fleets to emerge without
being scattered over days.

Also, consider that normally when you jump out you've got *hours* to
*days* of data regarding where you are jumping *from*. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:43:48 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Just say "no" to lhy for Jump drives

In mail you write:

> A total conversion maneuver drive.  This requires fuel, but not realistic
> amounts so ships can pull multiple Gs and still have enough fuel for
> hundreds of hours of burn.  (Think Heplar, but worse :-)
>
> Military vessels probably end up being similar to those in Traveller (lots
> of fuel tankage), but merchants should carry much less fuel. 
>
> What I haven't settled yet is how far ships will have to go to get to the
> jump point.  
>
> Any thoughts?

Yeah, check out some of Heinlein's juveniles. The ones that have "torch
ships", which are what Heinlein called a total conversion drive. 

Off the top of my head, "Farmer in the Sky", "Time for the Stars". 

I think "Farmer in the Sky" has the best bit. The ship is hauling
families to a colony on Ganymede. There was a tour for the kids to the
various areas of the ship. One kid wanted to see the drive and was told
that it was sealed off, no way to get to it in flight, and only robots
worked on it in port. The kid asked what would happen if something went
wrong. The guide *firmly* insisted that nothing *could* go wrong and
then dragged them off to something else. Our hero was another kid in
the group and asks his dad about it at dinner. His dad says that it
*is* pretty foolproof. Kid asks what if somethings goes wrong. Dad
replies that the chief engineer would have to go EVA (that's what was
implied, the term didn't exist at the time) and fix it. Kid goes "And?"
Father replies "And once the drive restarts, the deputy chief engineer
becomes the chief engineer". Kid is silent for a moment and then goes
"Oh!" as it dawns on him what dad has *really* said. 

I think that's a rather nice touch for a drive that powerful and
reliable. And it explains why *nobody* launches without an Engineer.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:57:46 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Antimatter Drives

In mail you write:

> Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> wrote:
>
>>Power output is the energy output of the drive.  A reasonable antimatter 
>>annihilation drive is probably on the order of 1 newton of thrust per 
>>ton of drive (capable of 1/10,000th G) so yes, it's 'low thrust'
>
> Why?  The info from what I've read by folks like Robert Forward suggest
> you'd be doing a whole lot better than that with antimatter, or even
> fusion for that matter. 

You missed the key item - "annihilation". 

He's talking about a drive where you react matter with an *equal*
amount of antimatter and use the resulting *photons* as your exhaust. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 18:20:41 +1000
From: "Hughes, Michael" <Michael.Hughes@cbr.defence.gov.au>
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Hobby Skills

HOBBY & TRIVIA SKILLS

Tired of drab colourless PC & NPCs? Are they simply looking like a
collection of UPP's and same'o same'o skills?

Then spice them on up with hobby or trivia skills. Skills that ordinarily
don't have a place in a game and have no real influence on almost any task,
but nonetheless could or can be used at some point. Chess, fishing,
knowledge of Horror TriD or Contemporary Romance Fiction could all be yours
. . . .

Give the NPC or PC a number of hobby/trivia skill levels equal to his/her
Education and let them go nuts. If ever called onto to perform a
hobby/trivia task, roll Vs an appropriate stat+skill level (if unskilled
subtract 3) e.g. ice skating or wood-carving then use Dex, recalling a
specific sport statistic then use Educ.

If a Hobby/trivia skill could influence a normal task resolution then add
Hobby or Trivia skill/2 (round up) as a DM if the GM feels it is warranted.

e.g. Eric's character is trying to shoot a rather nasty very large sea
creature which has suddenly lurched out of the water. Wanting to aim for the
right spot with Mr. Shottie, he asks if his Hobby skill of Fishing could be
applicable as a DM. The GM's been drinking, god Terry just wouldn't shut up
about Tactics pools and it being 1 a.m., he's wondering why the hell he
isn't at home in bed with his lovely wife.

'Sure Eric, what the hell, go for it'.

See, that could be you.

- - Michael 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:57:09 +1300
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: Re: HOW tactical are a ship's lasers?

> The ship fires its lasers from a short distance at the surface of the
planet...
> say a 30- or 60-degree angle downwards.  What is the minimum safe
> distance for ship's laser fire?

As close as you like.While close firing might do minor damage, knock off a
few exposed sensors and the like, or cause debris to impact the ship, no
major structural damge would result.

 If you want something to happen, have a nearby hit blast debris into an
open airlock, making it impossible to close without negineering
intervention, . No major damage, but worrying to players wanting to get into
orbit before the nukes go off.

> 3) If I very roughly translated starship damage to MT values, a 2-2-0-0
> laser might do on the order of 2000 'points' of damage to a non-ship
> target (a person in battledress, for example) at 30,000-60,000 km.

Don't even bother. An anti-ship laser could cause major problems for people
who are _missed_ by it, anyone who is hit is toast, as in any vehicle
smaller than a grav tank. And the tanjk will only survive by luck.

> Does the area of effect increase as range decreases?

Very definitely not. Lasers spread as range increases, not the reverse.

 > The amount of damage a ship can do to a localized area on a planet
> is devastating.  I would like to know if there are any consequences
> to the ship for blasting a planet's surface.

Yes. If you do it too much the planet acts as it's own "sandcaster" i.e, the
debris prevents the laser from hitting it's target. This in turn may have an
effect on the ships sensiong ability and it's ability to operate in
atmosphere, though probably not much.

Air turbulence around the site and the beams would be noticeable to say the
least.

It's remotely possible that some other consequence, such as hitting a
natural gas pocket could cause the planet to "fire back" but that's only
really relevant if the ship is grounded or low-flying.

Prolonged intensive bombardment of a single site could possibly cause
seismic activity

Frankie

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:03:47 +1300
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: Re: TML Members as resources

> Good grief.  Is there any subject concerning which someone on this list
> *doesn't* possess erudite knowledge?

Well, is there anyone on the list with an "erudite knowledge" of  the life
cycle of the tuatara or cave weta, or similar species ?

(Heck, other than the couple of New Zealanders on the list, I'd be impressed
if people even knew what they were.)

Frankie

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:29:45 +0100
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@exchange.rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: The Baron Population Bomb

Terry Carlino wrote:
> Notice that "Socialism/Communism" Governments are not listed as
> Government Types in the UWP? These kinds of governments and the
> concept of nationalization of private industry is as much an
> antithesis of the 3I as it was to the U.S.

Following on from a previous reply ...

In High Passage no. 5 Marc Miller himself wrote:

    "... it is important to remember just  what  purpose  the
    government factor is ment  to  serve.  Traveller  players
    and characters are rarely involved  with  governments  on
    the international and interplanetary level.  That  is  to
    say, they do not deal with kings or presidents  or  heads
    of state; they deal  with  individual  members  of  broad
    government mechanisms, they deal with office holders  and
    employees whose attitudes and actions are shaped  by  the
    type of government they serve."

    "For this reason, among others, labels such  as  monarchy
    have  been   elimiated.   Calling   a   government   type
    "monarchy" would conjure up images  of  a  king  and  his
    retinue, but still leaves a lot of information unrelated."

He then gave examples, including:

0.  No government structure
    Examples: The early American West, Indian tribes, or frontier
    situations.
.
.
.

10. Charismatic Dictatorship
    Examples: China under Mao, the USSR under Lenin, the US (to
    some extent) under FDR.

11. Non-Charismatic Leader
    Examples: China after Mao, the USSR after Stalin.

12. Charismatic Oligarchy
    Examples: The Communist Party in the USSR, the Democratic
    Party in Chicago.

As for nationalisation within the 3I  an  example  was  given  in
Amber Zone: Thunder on Zyra (JTAS-11) ... a merc ticket from  the
planetary government of Zyra (Trin's Veil) to help it nationalise
the local assets of an offworld corporation!



Regards PLST
"Rome wasn't burned in a day."

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1270
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