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To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin), bfwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Raven Blackburn),
        anthony@cs.pitt.edu (Michael Anthony Kapolka),
        mcknight@f104.n170.z1.fidonet.org (Chuck McKnight),
        fantasci!traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (Joseph "Jo" E Poplawski),
        jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com (James T. Perkins)
Subject: TML Bundle #240: Msgs 2939-2946
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Date: Wed, 02 Oct 91 21:00:14 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com>
Status: RO


TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed Oct  2 21:00:09 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #240: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2939  29-Sep-91 grue@cs.uq.oz.au  Ship combat stuff << My favourite can of worm
2940  29-Sep-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au MegaTrav Survey << Hi guys, After hearing all
2941  28-Sep-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: New Traveller )-8 << [surely doeth it hur
2942  27-Sep-91 Richard Johnson   More RPG Theory << Just read Bertil's and Ric
2943  29-Sep-91 Richard Johnson   Turn 91.0 (Time to Start!) << Welcome back to
2944  27-Sep-91 Richard Johnson   Semi-commercial PBEM stuff << Bertil suggeste
2945  30-Sep-91 Adrian Hurt       Re: ship combat stuff << grue@cs.uq.oz.au wri
2946  30-Sep-91 PHB100@PSUVM.PSU. RE: Roche limit << >Date: Sat, 28 Sep 91 00:2

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2939
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 91 14:01:55 EST
From: grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Subject: Ship combat stuff


My favourite can of worms has been opened (yet again).....
[ I'm not going to make any comments about the rumoured 'new' version of
  Trav, except that they'd better do it right! ]


In message (2918?) Burton says:

>Another problem is missiles.  It takes a M-6 ship 1 turn to travel 6 hexes if
>starting from a standstill.  Missiles launched said ship when many hexes away
>hit THAT SAME TURN.  Ppbbtt!

I've got the same gripe with missiles.  Mayday had an almost reasonable system
for missiles (you had counters and they moved and could accelerate in a rather
limited fashion).  The problems with having missiles as ships is that you can
arrange to defend against them multiple times (by not getting hit until a
later turn), which may seriously impair the effectiveness of missiles.  I
think that was the agreement Bertil and I arrived at when we discussed this
topic.


>With a 30 second turn (3 personal combat turns), the hexes are 4.5km across
>(so we'll fudge it to 5km).

5km is getting awfully small, how many ships can you stack into a hex?
A 1Mton battleship is a measly 150m diameter sphere so you could get lots
of them in, however a cyclinder of the same volume with a base area of
10000m^2 (=1 hectare) is 1.35 km long (and the cross-section need not be
anything like that big).  A cone/wedge configuration will be even worse.
If I was in one of those 'big' ships, I wouldn't desire another one inside
the same hex as I was in.  [ I do know that ships of those sizes are not
really combat capable but they do serve as an example ].  Having 5km hexes is
also going to cause some havoc with ranges....how far can you see in space?
(a very large number of hexes).  Active sensors are going to have some really
impressive ranges (0.1 light seconds is almost 30000km, 6000 hexes for a round
trip).  This would tend to make having sensors pretty much a non-issue,
especially for the long range EMS ones.


>[] was experiencing was that two small ships (1 200 tons, the other 400 tons)
>[] could not do any damage to each other except Fuel-1, Weapons-1, and, I
>[] think, Maneuver-1 (I'm not sure about that because of the modifier screw

>Armor should be used similar to the 2300ad way -- shots that do not
>penetrate can cause surface hits.  This will most likely damage sensors,
>exposed comminications gear,turrets,and perhaps the maneuver drive (giv it half
>armor?). Everything else is unaffected.  Penetrating hits have the possiblility
>of producing surface damage in addition to internal damage.

Not a bad idea.  It shouldn't be too difficult to work something out along
these lines.


>This is the major problem I saw.  Another that I feel is wrong is the way
>hits are calculated.  Doubling the size of a component does not double the
>damage it can take, in my mind.  I have come up with a small formula based on
>hull volume and the hull armor weigh modifier to compute the hull hits.
>I use a square-root rule (4x volume is 2x effective).  At present the formula
>is something like SQRT(VOL/4050/WM)*7.  VOL is hull volume, WM is armor weight
>modifier.  "7" is the constant I use for basic hits, assuming crystaliron
>I think.  Steel ships have less, superdense have more, etc.  Assuming
>the normal armor, a 100t ship has 7 hull hits until it is "disabled", meaning
>no maneuvering allowed.  Perhaps at double this it just falls apart.

I kind of like this point.  The TDR ship people should have a look at this
to see if could be implanted without too many devistating side-effects.
It would also make ships even easier to damage which has to be a good thing :-)


>I really don't like the real movement very much when I'm playing a space-opera
>game.  I may try to use a variant of the 2300ad system, where ships have a
>raw speed for each turn.  Actually, I'd like to use some Star Fleet Battles
>Ideas as well.  With such a system, you actually have to plot your movement
>so as to expose your best weapons (or to hide battle damage to the armor.

Going towards SFB would make the ship design process much more interesting.  You
suddenly have to allocate positions for all of your weapons and (I presume)
firing arcs (cones?) for them.  This would add some details for die-hard board
gamers; while for the rest of us who really don't like lots of paperwork, it
would make the entire process quite tedious.  I made the suggestion (to Bertil
again ;-) that agility be used for multiple different tasks --- I seem to
remember that the three we came up with were: maneuvering, evasion, aiming of
fixed mount weapons.  Maneuvering is simply how fast/far you can move in a
round;  Evasion gives all incoming attacks a reduced penetration; and Aiming
gives you a bonus on your to-hit/damage (I forget which) for spinal mounts/any
fixed weapon.  These three different aspects all got allocated out of your
ship's agility pool.  i.e. you got to trade them off against each other.
I think that this might give a first order approximation to the excessive
system that SFB uses.  [ I don't mean to sound so hard on SFB, I actually
enjoy playing it ]




        						Pauli

Paul Dale               | Internet/CSnet:            grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Dept of Computer Science| Bitnet:       grue%cs.uq.oz.au@uunet.uu.net
Uni of Queensland       | JANET:           grue%cs.uq.oz.au@uk.ac.ukc
Australia, 4072         | EAN:                          grue@cs.uq.oz
                        | UUCP:           uunet!munnari!cs.uq.oz!grue
f4e6g4Qh4++             | JUNET:                     grue@cs.uq.oz.au

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2940
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1991 15:36 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: MegaTrav Survey

Hi guys,

After hearing all the NuTrav debate and gripes over the Rebellion,
I am curious.  Who here uses the Rebellion?  I don't.  The few
trav sessions I've actually run are based in pre Fifth Frontier War.

It sounds as though there are some violent objections to the idea
of massive computer shutdown in the Imperium.  I doubt most of us
would use that setting.  But, I don't like the Rebellion either.


So what do you use?

Mr. Scott
'You took on a robot... In Engineering...  In Jump... with a FUSION GUN?'

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2941
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Re: New Traveller )-8
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 91 12:21:03 MET DST

[surely doeth it hurt when charters break:)]

> From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
> Subject: (2909)  New Traveller )-8
> 
> Are we going to be happy to be using a system where
> an average character can take two average damage .50 caliber machine gun
> bullets to the head without becoming unconscious?

  (originally a part of my other reply, but I had to check some figures)

  I agree that people can stand too much damage in T2k, but two .50cal is an
exaggeration. If we take the Joe A Average (A is for Above:) with 6 in all
stats (1-10 is the range) he will be slightly damaged at <=12 hits in the
head, seriously damaged at <=24 hits and dead at 25 and up.
  A .50cal does 8D of damage, average of 3.5 per die gives 28, wich means that
he has more than 50% chance of being dead. And there is a 100% chance of he
being unconcious.

  If we include the quick kill rule we will get something like the following
figures on the risk of dying or getting unconcious from one hit on a random
part of the body:

  d6 of damage	%dead	%unconcious	weapon
	1	2%	5%		7mm revolvers and autos
	2	4%	12%		9mm autos & smg's
	3	6%	12%		5.56N
	4	8%	12%		7.62
	6	12%	34%		some elephant guns
	8	17%	50%		.50cal (shotgun at close does 9D)
	10	19%	55%		some bloc HMG (?)

  On the other hand, if we make the simple modification of halving the damage
to each hit location that characters can stand*, and apply this on 
Joe A Average II we will get this:
  
  d6 of damage	%dead	%unconcious	weapon
	1	2%	5%		7mm revolvers and autos
	2	4%	12%		9mm autos & smg's
	3	8%	31%		5.56N
	4	11%	52%		7.62
	6	15%	75%		some elephant guns
	8	18%	81%		.50cal (shotgun at close does 9D)
	10	19%	90%		some bloc HMG (?)

  * I agree, it is a patch, but compared to some of the patches for 
MegaTraveller it is small and non-intrusive, and it is only used once: on
character generation.

> Rob Dean

- -bertil-
- -- 
'Det a"r oo"versa"ttbart...'

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2942
Subject: More RPG Theory
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 91 21:38:27 PDT
From: Richard Johnson <richard@agora.rain.COM>

Just read Bertil's and Rick's and Scott's and Rob's and Mike's and
... comments about Traveller, Original (TO), MegaTraveller (MT),
and a plethora of wannabe games.  I think we have a consensus.  We
don't like the idea of replacing our game system again.  Repairing
it, yes.  Replacing it, maybe--but NOT this way!

(BTW -Thanks for the compiment, Bertil. - another message discusses
commercial PBEM stuff.)

Before we get too adamant about things, let's pause and remember
that we are pretty much abnormal, both for the population as a
whole, and for the population of people who buy RPG's.  I suspect
a successful rpg is one that not only catches the eye of the
impulse buyer, but also holds the fascination of the user.  And,
much as I hate to say it, dragon-slaying seems to be more universal
a myth than planet-hopping.

I just don't want to encourage destruction of the (to date) best
planet-hopping myth-creation rules set, so that it's makers can
appeal a little more to those who would slay dragons with PGMPs.
- -- 
Richard Johnson     richard@oresoft.com      richard@agora.rain.com
Pax Electronica.                                         Propogate.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2943
Subject: Turn 91.0 (Time to Start!)
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 91 17:31:02 PDT
From: Richard Johnson <richard@agora.rain.COM>


Welcome back to the semi-permament TML PBEM!
Here is part one of a summary of PBEM activity to date.  You     
people are really pretty good writers.  This is a good story -
even if it is a littel soap-opera-ish in places.

Summarizing, it's hard to believe it took two years to get here.
:=)
- ------ Important Admin stuff ----------

In keeping with our charter and tradition, I am echoing official
turns to the TML.  If this becomes a problem for non-pbem TML'ers
please let me know right away and we'll work something out.


There are some new groups of characters not mentioned here in
this turn.  It's Okay.  Those affected, go ahead and make your 
introductions just as you indicated to me. I have assumed that 
three inbound distress signals, simultaneously is just *too* 
much of a coincidence, so coming in this way autmatically staggers
your entries, just a little.  Come on in, get introduced and 
we'll get rolling.



Rule changes for turn 91:

1) Let's try to keep things to one-day (or less) turn intervals.
   That's game time, not our time.  What I mean is make one or two
   (three if you _must_) private/public postings, and then quit,
   no matter how much it hurts.  Then I can get in and quickly
   re-synchronize everyone and we'll get going again.  Hopefully
   this way I can get more, smaller, turns out, more frequently.

   If this doesn't work well, we'll change it.


2) As of now, enrollment is CLOSED.  We're not taking new characters
   until we have an open-enrollment period, probably during winter 
   break.  
   
   New listeners are welcome.  Just go ahead and send a message to
   pbem-request@engrg.uwo.ca and we'll add you to the listeners list.
   Listeners get all the pbem public messages, not just official
   turns. 


3) Remember to use the pbem aliases at engrg.uwo.ca.  James is 
   posting the list, and we'll keep instructions handy in case you
   need to get another set.



=================Summary========================================= 

Our adventure began in about 1119 on one of the unnamed systems,
in the Illelish sector, on the edge of the rift between this
sector and Reaver's Deep.    A company claiming to be a field office 
of Turnskaad Enterprises of the Spinward Marches has advertised for 
a crew to expolore and perform scientific investigation.  
(See Atlas of the Imperium)

(Originally, I didn't have a particular name or place, but
some of these detail-oriented types have been twisting my arm for 
two years.)


Shortly after the Human's emperor Strephon was assasinated, his
nephew, Lucan, asked the Daibei to invade the Illelish territories.
They refused and declared their independence.  Systems just on the
other side of the rift between Reaver's Deep and Illelish felt
threatened nonetheless, and actively recruited all manner of arms
and arms bearers, waiting for the almost certain invasion from
Dulinor, Aslan, Daibei, Solomani, or Margaret.  
(See Rebellion Sourcebook.)


With this in mind, the offer from Turnskaad quickly attracted all 
manner of adventurers interested in something other than defending 
another rock against another would-be tyrant.  After being given some 
titilating information, about thirty people agreed, more or less in 
the blind, to sign up for a mission they know little about.  

Turnskaad representatives showed these volunters holo's of an intact 
ringworld "somewhere just outside the imiperial border."  A few of 
the less adventursome backed out then, and the excitement of those 
remaining was intense.  Here's the text of the original briefing:

- ------------------------------
We have recently received information from one of our private scouts
that a ringworld exists in a nebula not far from here.  Our scout
was able to make only one pass, and that off the ecliptic, so we
don't know much about the overall picture. We have named this find
`R-alpha', after the code sequence used ot designate the find.

(A holo of a slim, shiny band reflecting the light of a yellow-green
star forms near the speaker.  This is a moving holo, obviously from
the cameras of a passing ship, and time compressed.  The band slowly
resolves into what must be a ring, although the nearer side is
washed out by the light of the star.  The ring is almost vertical in
the holo.)

The one pass indicated excess energy generation at several
locations, habitable oxygen-nitrogen atmosphere, and methane.
Methane does not occur except as a by-product of animal life, or
geological metamorphasis, so we strongly suspect widespread life.

The holo shows 8 or 9 distinct "warm spots" on the ring as the star
characteristically dims through an IR-viewing filter.  The ring
rapidly expands, and then the time-compression slows as the camera
pans to follow the inner surface of the ring.  Geographic features
such as low hills and small seas are visible.  So are clouds.

Whoever built this didn't create it for just a game preserve.  We
need to explore it as much as possible in the next few months.  
Naturally there is potential for huge economic and miltary benefit 
if you can uncover information, artifacts, and so forth.  We have 
posted a bond of 10,000 ICr for the first working artifact found.

The holo fades out. The lights come back up.

Also, discoveries like this are hard to keep secret.  Time is
critical.  We estimate you have at most six months to do all your
investigative work before competitors force you off the world.  If
you can get back in time, we can make at least a salvage or
colonization claim on R-alpha before someone else can move in.

Because of the nature of your teams, and of this world, you will be
spending extended periods well away from other teams and from your
ship.  You need to be prepared.  We are providing inital training,
and making certain equipment available to you at a reduced cost.
Your checks will be held here until your return.  (Isn't that just
like a big outfit, to collect the interest on your labor...)

...

Again folks, think on what you will need to perform your mission.
You might have to live off the land, you might need to move quickly,
and you might need to fight hard just to survive.  Next week we will
move out to the asteroids, where the Alcyon is parked, and where we
have a supply depot to help you make final personal and mission
purchases.


(and there were the inevitable questions:)

        What exactly do you mean by `artifact'?

We're searching for unique and previously unknown items.  We're 
offering the reward for a truly natable scientific, military,
historical, or economic find.  It doesn't have to be a TL17
`thingy' (of course that wouldn't hurt).  It does have to be
something that we as a multi-racial empire have never before
built, dreamed of, or considered.  Like a practical way to 
communicate with plants, or make a jump 7, or just be able
to have a viable artificial intelligence.


	The intro mentioned subs.  I sure hope that there are some 
	automated probes and robots for doing some of the observations.

Yes there are.  You have both disposable and recoverable probes and
robots for this mission.


	Are there any company represetatives coming? 
	or are we on our own? 

This mission is your baby.  I will probably drop by to check up
your status, exchange mail, etc. though.
(As expected, they lied... There is a company lawyer along.)


	"Umm, just how big is the ringworld?  

Its stellar radius is roughly 1.5 X 10^8 kilometers.  It's roughly 
3000 kilometers wide.  It has `vertical' sides roughly 100 kilometers
high, to hold in its air.  Actually, in a general sense, it is one
*huge* valley between two *tall* mountain ranges.


	So how large surface area does R-alpha have?

Roughly 10^12 km^2.  This is on the order of 10^4 times the surface
area of a planet like Terra.  (More habitable area than the whole 
Imperium!)


	And how long will we have to explore it?  

Not long.  Only a few months at most.  We expect, knowing how 
communications and response work, that at least two of the major
belligerents for the throne will arrive in 4 to 6 months time.
Rather than `explore' per se, we'd prefer you concentrated on
getting everything you can from R-alpha.  Physically and scientifically.



	Also, if there is an undiscovered sapient race with some degree
	of technological development, what will be mission policy 
	regarding contact and establishment of relations with the locals?"

That's up to the on-scene commander.  Just remember that they're a lot
less likely to be welcomed into civilization when and if Lucan and Dulinor
start duking it out over 'er under? their heads.


...

Insurance:
I'm passing out insurance and salvage agreements today.  You do not
have to fill these out.  However if you do not, salvage is assumed
to belong to Turnskaad fully, rather than leaving you a finders
portion, and Turnskaad is the default beneficiary of your life
insurance.  It really is in your personal interest to fill these
out.



Mission Equipment:
Everyone will be equipped with a TL15 scout-type vacc suit, except
for the members of the security team, who will have armored vacc
suits issued.  We expect everyone on the team to be in continuous
contact, at least in terms of location; all issue vacc suits have
ELT's (emergency locator transponders) built in.  The ELT's signal
the base ship every 30 minutes and relay your health and location
information.  More details are available if you're curious.

TL13 Stun pistol with a variety of drug charges is the standard 
issue sidearm.  You are expected to have this with you at all times, 
loaded.  You will receive some rudimentary training in selecting the
proper drugs to use in various situtations.  Of course, this does
not preclude your wearing or using your favorite sidearm; we just
want you all to have a visible reminder that this is initially a
peaceful mission.

Personal medikits are available from ship's stores.  A slightly more
substantial party-sized kit is assigned to each team's carrier.

Hand computers (TL15) will be issued to those who do not already
have them.  If you wish to buy one, you can do so at a discount, as
with all personal equipment you purchase for this mission.  (Send me
a list of equipment you wish, together with suggested price from
some book if you have a price.  I will indicate which are assigned,
which are for the ship, and which you need to lease or purchase.
For items to purchase I will assign a disocunt price.  After
everyone has bought what they want, I'll tell you how I figured the
discount, if you're interested :-).)

Items of a more sensitive nature, such as military-style hardware
are available at our asteroid spaceport.  You will be leaving for
there this afternoon.  (So send in your lists for this stuff, too.)
Of course, further comunications with the outside will be limited
after this, so if you've got any farewells to send, better do it
this morning.



- ---------------------

Everyone went out to an asteroid clump, and started training.  Here
they got their first view of the Alcyon:

The reason for the tugs becomes apparant as you enter the cluster.  For 
those on the shuttle, you'll get to see it when you disembark.  In a 
parllel orbit is an enormous, spider-like tetrahedron.  In the center
of the tetrahedron is what seems to be a large engine-like structure.
This center engine is roughly 400 tons (volume) in its own right.

The engine faces one apex, with exhaust through the center of one of
the tetrahedron's faces.  Each of the four apexes connects to the 
central engine, as well as to each of the other three corners with 
strong structural members.  A fine mesh covers the front three faces
of the tetrahedron, and most of the rear face.  At the front 
of the Alcyon is a bridge and crew compartment.  The other three apexes
are obviously reserved for ships to connect to.  

The fine mesh is the Alcyon's lanthanum grid.  Beneath the grid, and 
well connected to all eight of the structural beams are bags of some
strong, light weight, material.  These seem to be collapsible fuel bags.
Presently they float limply, about half full.

Several figures in vacc suits labor about the Alcyon even now, preparing 
her for flight.

...

They met their "launch director".

Tonight, the three ships you brought will be attached to the Alcyon
for the jump to R-alpha.  You have (she eyes her notes) two scout
ships and a merchant -- all streamlined it says here.  Good.  There
is a 200T cargo bay on the Alcyon in addition to what is on your ships.
Most of the heavy equipment requested for this trip is already on board.

You might want to do some cargo shuffling tomorrow, so that your merchant
ship can carry some of the larger items down without having to shift 
cargo after you arrive.

The Alcyon is a jump tender.  A little more advanced in some ways than
the traditional ones, though.  Access ways are provided between each of
the ships and the central core.  One ship's location has been replaced
by bridge, computing, and life support for a small crew.  Enough fuel
should be on board to provide two jump 5's without refueling.  You might
be able to stretch that with some tinkering with your ships and so forth
in an emergency.

Only a very minimal maneuver drive is available on the Alcyon herself.
Just enough to keep her oriented, not really enough to accelerate or
fend off any serious gravity.  The software is installed to use your
ship's engines for this, though.  {ref: OK transport crew - how much
acceleration we gonna get?}  (Answer came back - 0.25g, 0.5g with
all four ships churning hydrogen.)


Likewise, the Alcyon is pretty defensless without your ships.  Only a
double laser turret and a sand caster up front.  There just isn't any
good place to put a hard point that won't damage the Alcyon more than 
whatever you're firing at.

Overall, what this means is that with the Alcyon you've got range and
speed over interstellar distances.  But you've got to rely on each 
your own ships for some of the work.  Likewise, it means that wherever
you go, you get there together; no party scattering due to misjumps.
Once you're there, your navigators will quickly figure out where you
are, and in a pinch, you can scuttle the Alcyon more cheaply than
a `real' ship and bug out individually.  


- -------------------------------------

A day and a half later, the Alcyon was tugged out of the small gravity
well of the asteroids.  Just before firing off the chemical strap-on
boosters to give her some initial speed, she was met by a shuttle
making some last inute crew changes.  A couple of people got recalled
to active duty, one had to go home, and Turnskaad threw another
genralist/scientist on board.  (I wanted to play a little, too.)

The second night of the first jump, all was going well and the crew
held a falling-down, staggering in 0-g party.  (Then, summer arrived,
I had some serious mailer problems, and ...) everyone woke up five 
days later.  They hurriedly prepared for their pre-arranged re-fueling
rendezvous and re-entered normal space.

Just before re-entry, one of the crew discovered a locator beacon,
seemingly of Solomani design, in with the cargo brought aboard
the Alcyon.  An immediate interior search revealed no further
bugs, and no more clues to the one they found.  Dissecting it 
indicated it sent a coded radio "squirt" just before jump entry,
revealing the ship's course.

The bridge team immediately went to work building computer
programs and monitors to watch for, trap, reocrd, and effectively
prevent another broacsast.

During the rendezvous, some engineers and security went outside
to inspect the ship and grid, some crew were transferred to and
form the troop/cargo ship Anslinger, and fuel was pumped aboard
from a snowball carrier.  Outside, the ship's reporter newstaped
the entire operation.

After crew transfers, and when the bags were at ~80%, an imperial
fleet was detected leaving jump in the same (empty) sector of 
space.  Emergency disconnect was made, Turnskaad's ships making
violent, distracting maneuvers while the Alcyon's mains came on
line.  Some engineers were almost trapped outside, and one, 
Anton Devious lost his foot because of an air lock malfunction 
during the emergency.

The fleet was tenatively identified as one of Lucan's, although
the ID was not definite.  The snowball sprayed hydrogen between
the Alcyon and the fleet, and jumped.  As Alcyon jumped, they 
ignited the  hydrogen to blind the fleet's sensors (at least
temporarily) to their neutrino trail.


- --------
About this same time, the Aslan exploration vessel Trakh,
on a foray into the rift, discovered a green star with a 
regular pulsation, and jumped toward it.

Also, about this same time, R-alpha's natives are receiving omens
of impending visitors, and are preapring to recive them.  The
thoughtful and religious Jijid are meditating and chanting.  The
agressive Kythui don't really care, and the telpathic Phins
communied with "the Hoop" and prepared for the arrival of "the 
Visitors".


- ----------

The following week, sciences section determined that the surface
gravity of R-alpha should be about 1g, that the atmosphere appeared
to be breathable, and there were definite signs of inteeligence:
a power distribuiton network, low-intensity neutrino flux, airborne
pollutants, etc.   

Medical section discovered that Sgt. Major Hammer died of Curare the
night of the party, that whatever put people out for five days was
soewhat counteracted or amplified by what booster shots the victims
had received just before leaving (That's why some died, some got
sick, and some had no ill effects.), and that it was a short-lived
airborne binary gas, apparantly delivered from the now-connected
air ducts of the Paladin.  They also got Devious stabilized, slowed,
and into a cold berth to await later work (i.e. player to return)
since his foot was now light years away, and vacuum packed.


Command and security put together a select team to search the Paladin,
whose owner died of the gas delivered the night of the party.  What 
they found was a wonderful, hi-tech exploratory ship, and the empty
bottles, together with evidence that whoever delivered the gas was
no longer aboard.


Day five of the jump, a hydrogen line ruptured in engineering during
routine maintenance and flash-froze M.T. who shattered when he fell 
to the deck.  Other injuries were minor, except for Silvmane, who
recovered extremely rapidly.

This event got a few of the more paranoid minds together to consider
the modus operandi of the sabateur.  Early day seven of the jump,
security sealed off the passageways near engineering, and a few of
the officers destroyed Leadfoot.   They decided to take immediate, 
positive action against the agressor, and it is covered in more detail
in turn 10.9d and 10.9e.  Basically, they unleashed a fusion-powered
holocaust in the drive room, and injured several.  Leadfoot is "dead".

	



Shortly before re-entry, commander Ger addresses the crew of the Alcyon.

...

"Well, we'll be arriving shortly.  We have now completed the *easy* 
part of our mission.  I have it on good authority our sabteur has
met his maker."  He smiles wryly at Abuko.  

"Now, we are about to visit a single world with the same habitable 
surface area as all of the inhabited worlds in the Imperium put 
together." He pauses to let that sink in.  "There are fewer than
forty of us.  We have to find the history of a long-dead race, find 
an intelligent species, and prevent Imperial conflicts from destroying 
this gem of an artifact.

"We are much better prepared for this part of our mission than we were 
for sabotage, however.  Look around you.  We are scientists, we are 
engineers, we are scouts.  Only a few of us are trained killers."  He
slows down just a little.  "And all of us, _all_ .. _of_ .._us_, have
worked our whole lives for this moment.  For this opportunity.

"You have demonstrated a teamwork on board these last few weeks.  
You have demonstrated tenacity in adversity.  And you have demonstrated 
an ability to adapt.  All of these are needed and will serve us in good 
stead in our coming venture. 

"When MY grandchildren ask me what it was like, I will proud to tell them
how wonderful it was to serve with the greatest collection of explorers
ever assembled. 

"I salute each and every one of you.

...





Several hours later, almost at the predicted moment, the jump warning
sounds, and the lights dim.  Once again, everyone is subjected to that
annoying, nauseating, tumbling, feeling, and the pale blue glow on all
the outside monitors is replaced by starlight and sunlight.

Everyone hears, from just over her or his left shoulder a quiet, soothing,
alien, voice.  In each person's native tounge comes the message:

"Welcome.  We have been expecting you.  An envoy will be up shortly
to show you where to dock.  The peace of the cosmos be with you."

None of the typical intercept or probing signals appear on the ship's
sensors.


Looking out any viewport, you can see just how good a jump this was.
In an arc stretching from as far as you can see forward to as far as
you can see aft, and slightly below the Alcyon, is a wall of dark, gray,
metal, with sunlight shining off the edges.  Far forward you can see
a second arc and far aft is a third.  These two are tiny silvery bands
that begin well away from the vanishing points of the metal floor, and
extend around, behind, and above a shimmering greenish-yellow star.
These tiny bands almost connect above the star, giving the appearance
of a halo.  Keen eyes detect a very slight fuzziness at the edges of
the "floor" near you.

Inward from the first ring, a second becomes visible.  It is in a plane
with the first ring, but much smaller, and much darker.   

The inside of the ring is visible fore and aft of Alcyon as the wall
arcs away from you.  You can clearly see forests, seas, deserts, islands,
continets, and various signs of life - villages, smoke, roads.  Motion
detectors tell of flying creatures as well.


The speed of rotation of the ring is much more than the speed of your
orbit.  The breathtaking view literally flies by as sciences asks Christian
to have Lucan or Dulinor bring a couple more cases of holo-crystals 
up to the lab.



================

Seconds later the hull reverberates with the dull metallic thunks of
couplings detatching themselves from the Alcyon.  All three riders, 
the Talisman, the Paladin, and the Aurora, detach from the Alcyon's 
hull, followed by the slow emergence of the command shuttle from the 
central core of the tender.  The Paladin begins to accelerate down 
and away, beginning to match speeds with the ring.  The Talisman 
moves off the plane of the ecliptic, to take high-altitude obser-
vations.  The Aurora begins to move to a high-guard position.

>From the surface of R-alpha a shuttle emerges, broadcasting a welcome 
message and instructions to follow them to a landing/docking facility.
At this moment, the universal distress channel comes to life.  An
Ael Yael ship has had an accident and is incoming.  The Aurora lights
up like a chemical rocket and off toward the distress signal, the 
command shuttle moving into high-guard position.


Meanwhile, on the surface below, the inner ring moves in its faster
orbit, and its dithered density filters begin to allow light onto 
the village of the Kyth.  Sunlight reveals thousands of the nomads
doming into the village for their annual celebration of victory over
hardship.  And, on the knoll just outside of town, the crew of the
Trakh prepare for alien contact.


It is deep night in the middle of the village of the Jijid.  Tehadazi,
the wise woman has awakened from a disturbing dream.  In this dream,
she was on a strange world where the sun was on the horizon, and it
was _cold_.  She has neve felt cold in her life, and everyone knows
the sun is always overhead.  It is disquieting.  She looks out at the
stars, and sees one moving, first this way, then that, and thinks back
to the discussion she had just a few days ago about visions of 
visitors and moving stars.   


Aboard the shuttle, Nishu's board comes up with a solution to one 
of the programs he and Etienne loaded 'way back when'.  "Got our
location sir."  

(for completeness .. It's hex 1501 in the Reaver's Deep sector, as
listed in the "Atlas of the Imperium".  I know this is technically
inside the imperium, but - okay ya got lied to before.  :=)  It might
very well be in a nebula, and it is jump 5 away form about three
different planet systems.  It's close to Solomani, Aslan, Dulinor,
Margaret, Daibei, and not too terribly far from the Vargr.)


As the action moves away from the Alcyon, lights throughout the
ship shut themselves off in preprogrammed sequence as the ship 
prepares for orbital station-keeping.



=============
OK folks - light 'em up!  
(If this doesn't get ya goin', see turns 10.9d and 10.9e from 
 last season.)

- -- 
Richard Johnson     richard@oresoft.com      richard@agora.rain.com
Pax Electronica.                                         Propogate.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2944
Subject: Semi-commercial PBEM stuff
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 91 21:46:33 PDT
From: Richard Johnson <richard@agora.rain.COM>

Bertil suggested commercial or semi-commercial PBEM as a possibility
of evolution for MT.  Interestingly, a couple of my friends here
suggested that same thing last week.  I declined to even attempt 
it with MT, for a number of reasons I'll outline.

First, these friends participate in a D&D-like PBM tournament thing, 
for which they pay-by-turn.  The people who run this use a modified
DOS system to create character match ups and evaluate combat - 
essentially off-line, and then results are posted.  They make money
doing this in just the Portland area.

It would work with MT.  Certainly not with me running it.  I 
don't want to so severely constrain characters actions, make 
such a small subset of involvement.

We have about 40 people, all over the world, playing in a _free_
PBEM.  This tournament thing has >100 in the Portland area.  
It just wouldn't pay.  At least not the way we're doing it.

Finally, I guess Bertil is right.  I'm not sure that collectively
you could pay me enough to want to do this full-time.  :=)
(i.e. you guys are doing a good job *playing*.)
- -- 
Richard Johnson     richard@oresoft.com      richard@agora.rain.com
Pax Electronica.                                         Propogate.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2945
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: ship combat stuff
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 91 10:41:10 BST

grue@cs.uq.oz.au writes:
> In message (2918?) Burton says:
> 
> >Another problem is missiles.  It takes a M-6 ship 1 turn to travel 6 hexes if
> >starting from a standstill.  Missiles launched said ship when many hexes away
> >hit THAT SAME TURN.  Ppbbtt!
> 
> I've got the same gripe with missiles.  Mayday had an almost reasonable system
> for missiles (you had counters and they moved and could accelerate in a rather
> limited fashion).  The problems with having missiles as ships is that you can
> arrange to defend against them multiple times (by not getting hit until a
> later turn), which may seriously impair the effectiveness of missiles.

So?  All that means is that you're using your agility (and at least one weapon
system) to evade (and attempt to destroy) the missile, rather than chase (and
attempt to destroy) the enemy.  Isn't this one of the functions of missiles in
real air warfare?

> >With a 30 second turn (3 personal combat turns), the hexes are 4.5km across
> >(so we'll fudge it to 5km).
> 
> 5km is getting awfully small, how many ships can you stack into a hex?
> A 1Mton battleship is a measly 150m diameter sphere

Correction: 150m radius sphere.

>						      so you could get lots
> of them in, however a cyclinder of the same volume with a base area of
> 10000m^2 (=1 hectare) is 1.35 km long ...
> If I was in one of those 'big' ships, I wouldn't desire another one inside
> the same hex as I was in.

So having two ships in the same hex may result in a collision?  Good.  If two
ships manage to get that close to one another, some roll should be made to see
if they collide, especially if one is trying to ram the other.  (E.g. if one
is a missile.)

>							Having 5km hexes is
> also going to cause some havoc with ranges....how far can you see in space?
> (a very large number of hexes).

This is the problem, of course.  Either you need _very_ small hexes, plus a
microscope to see the ship models/markers, or you only use this level of
detail at close range.

> >Armor should be used similar to the 2300ad way -- shots that do not
> >penetrate can cause surface hits.  This will most likely damage sensors,
> >exposed comminications gear,turrets,and perhaps the maneuver drive (giv it half
> >armor?).

Why aren't turrets armoured?

> >			     Actually, I'd like to use some Star Fleet Battles
> >Ideas as well.  With such a system, you actually have to plot your movement
> >so as to expose your best weapons (or to hide battle damage to the armor.
> 
> Going towards SFB would make the ship design process much more interesting.
> You suddenly have to allocate positions for all of your weapons and (I
> presume) firing arcs (cones?) for them.

This isn't too bad for small ships with a few weapons, but how do you fancy
allocating the firing arcs of 20 batteries?  Or (in the case of a big
battle-wagon) 100+ batteries?  I suppose the best way would be to find how
many batteries you have of a certain weapon type, and then decide how many
you want in each of six general arcs - front, back, port, starboard, up, down.
Except that some weapons could cover more than one of these arcs; anyone want
to figure out a rule for what percentage of weapons can cover multiple arcs?
Or would we have to draw up accurate 3-D plans of every ship we design, and
then put weapons onto them and figure out where they can fire?

- -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2946
From: PHB100@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Date:    Mon, 30 Sep 91 09:02 EDT
Subject: RE:  Roche limit

>Date: Sat, 28 Sep 91 00:24:06 PDT
>From: Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il>
>Subject: (2936) Roche Limit
>
>
>PHB100@PSUVM.PSU.EDU writes:
>
>
>  Roche limit is quoted (in the Britannica) to be 2.5 diameters of the
>primary. The 380 odd thousand kilometers of Luna's orbit are quite outside
>the limit.

Ooops.  Ok.  It's my own fault for not checking facts before I sound off.  I
have that nasty habit.  Usually my memory is excellent for trivia of that sort,
and I tend to rely on it to the exclusion of other sources of information.
Hopefully, I will have learned my lesson from this semi-public humiliation  8+)

Seriously, tho, thanks for straightening me out about that.

Paul.
- -------
In the dark no one can hear the color of your eyes.
Disclaimer:  This is me.  Do I sound like anyone else?

Paul Baughman          PHB100@psuvm.bitnet
                       baughman@gis.psu.edu

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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Subject: TML Bundle #241: Msgs 2947-2956
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Status: RO


TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed Oct  2 21:00:20 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #241: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2947  29-Sep-91 uunet!popeet!wild Introductions All Around (Long) << HELLO! I'v
2948  30-Sep-91 burt@ptltd.COM     << Subject: Starship stuff, a gun to the hea
2949  30-Sep-91 Anthony Neal      Alright! Let's hear it for metlay!! << And th
2950  30-Sep-91 npc@soliton.physi Very very large gas giant. << It's been a lon
2951  30-Sep-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au GraDAR, and Neutrino Telescopes << Howdy Part
2952  01-Oct-91 bart@cs.uoregon.e Re: TML biweekly: Msgs 2942-2946 V19#18 << Fr
2953  01-Oct-91 richard@oresoft.C Hubris (What can happen when...) << I found t
2954  01-Oct-91 kirsch@rhea.infor RE: Introductions to All around (Starship des
2955  01-Oct-91 richard@oresoft.C A little less Obtuse << I hope to see the nex
2956  01-Oct-91 burt@ptltd.COM     << From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2947
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 91 14:58:21 EDT
From: uunet!popeet!wildstar@sequent.UUCP (Derek Wildstar)
Subject: Introductions All Around (Long)


HELLO!
 
I've been a member of TML for a few days now, and I feel that it is about
time to introduce myself.  My name is Guy Garnett, although I frequently go 
by the handle "Derek Wildstar" here on the internet.  I have been a
Traveller player and referee since 1980, when I was introduced to the game
by an 18-hour session at a BaltiCon.  I recently wound up a MegaTraveller
campaign, and am rather dissatisfied with the rules.  Although I noticed
many problems, the ones which stand out in my mind include the starship
combat rules and vehicle construction.  My current plans include a number
of projects, two of which are probably of interest to TML members.
 
WASHINGTON DC AREA?
 
First of all, I would like to contact (or form) a group of people in my
area (the Washington DC metro area) to play MegaTraveller, Classic
Traveller, and/or to design and playtest Traveller variants.  If you are
in my area (or know someone who is) please send me Email (or even call
at a reasonable hour of the evening at (301)-384-6946 and leave voice-mail).
 
A MEGATRAVELLER FANZINE
 
Secondly, I am in the planning stages for a Traveller fan-zine, with a 
working title of "M-T Variant".  I believe that the biggest problem with
Traveller (and its current incarnation, MegaTraveller) is a failure of the
imagination.  It seems to me that Marc Miller (and the GDW Traveller crew),
along with Joe Fugate (and the DGP staff) are stuck in a rut.  MegaTraveller
is essentially The Traveller Book, plus Mercenary, High Guard, and Striker
(but with additional errors inserted, to keep us on our toes).  It is
saddled with a stack of compromises for play-balance and to stay compatible
with decisions made fifteen years ago.
 
M-T Variant will be intended to be an alternative to GDW and DGP controlled
Traveller information sources.  The intent is to make contact with people who
are not part of the MegaTraveller mainstream, both on and off of the internet,
and to disseminate their new and exciting ideas about Traveller and its 
universe.  The Traveller universe is vast, and there must be thousands of
ideas which have not (and maybe even cannot) be covered by the powers that be.
 
In order to do this, I will need advice and (most importantly) submissions.
This is where you folks come in.  While I have published user group and fan
club newsletters before, this will be a new thing for me, and I probably
can't do it alone (I know I can't write that much material all by myself,
even if I did have a stockpile of ideas bigger than my house).
 
In addition to things like errata and lots and lots of vehicle designs, I
want to include all kinds of tips and tricks to all aspects of playing the
game, from plotting campaigns to designing vehicles.  Most importantly, I
would like new variants and MegaTraveller sub-systems.  Everything from 
vehicle designs (of which TML has a large number of very good designs) and 
items like Scott Kellogg's "Why I Break the Rules" through stuff like the 
(well done) "FireFight" combat system to the meticulous "MachineTools".  What
do folks on the mailing list think of this idea?  Would you (and particularly
the authors of the things I mentioned above) like to contribute?
 
A couple of last-minute thoughts about M-T Variant.  One is that it should
be possible to dump the ASCII text of each issue out of my DTP software, so
that it could be made available at one of the TML FTP sites.  Secondly, I
wonder if it would be possible to include some of the discussions from TML
in a special column in the 'zine.  What does everyone think of these ideas?
 
COMPUTER VIRUSES
 
I have noticed the ongoing discussion about NewTraveller/Star-Vikings and
computer viruses.  In my Classic Traveller campaigns computer viruses have 
almost never been a problem, even though many players and characters have
tried.  I have always assumed that computers in the far future would be
adequately protected by one of a number of schemes.  The one that I have 
added to my Traveller universe works as follows.
 
Computer programs are stored in an encrypted format.  The method used is a 
type of "public-key" cryptography.  Two keys are used, one for encryption, 
and one for decryption.  Authorized programs are encrypted using a standard
hardware encryption unit (actually a very simple computer, with a hard-wired
and unchangeable program).  Under the control of the computer operator, a
program is enctypted using a secret key (which is unique to each computer
system) entered by the operator.  This encryption key is *NEVER* stored in  
the computer, but is maintained seperately in a secure location.  A 
decription unit inside the computer uses the corresponding decryption key
(semi-permanently installed in the unit) to prepare the program for execution. 
If the program fails the decryption step, it is unauthorized or altered, 
and cannot be run (as a matter of fact, the failed decryption process has
turned it into gibberish anyway).
 
While a virus (or an unauthorized programmer) could decrypt a program and
alter it (ie: infect it with a virus, timebomb, or worm program), they could
not re-encrypt it; because while the decription key is stored in the computer,
the encryption key in the hands of the authorized operator of the computer. 
And the computer cannot run programs which are not properly encrypted.
 
While this completely elimitates the possibility of a virus infecting a large
number of computers, it does not eliminate computer crime.  If the encryption
key can be obtained and duplicated, an unauthorized program can be
introduced.  If a number of codes can be obtained (say, by an industrial spy
at the computer manufacturer), a virus could be written which can infect any
computers for which it has the codes in its database.  The codes are usually
stored on write-once media (write-once optical cards or holocrystal cylinders
are most common); if the code can be obtained, it can be copied in a matter
of a minute or so.  Security for the codes varies; for example, the Imperial
Navy keeps its codes in a safe under the control of the Chief Navigator.  In
many free traders, security is more lax; and the codes are frequently found
in a desk drawer (maybe locked) near the computer.  With carefull planning
and execution, a daring party of adventurers may be able to obtain the codes
they need.
 
Many types of computer crime can be committed even without altering the
programs which run the computers.  Simply falsifying information in the
myriad databases of a large computer system could alter or erase personnell
records, shipping instructions, inventories, ownership, and many types of
other records.
 
Future societies will be heavily dependent on their computer technology;
ways will be found to adequately protect them.  By devising defenses and
taking proper percautions, things like computer viruses will be a danger,
but one that is understood and defended against.  As an analogy, consider
the human body: it is quite possible for a virus to alter the cellular
program which keeps us alive.  But while cases do occurr, epidemics are
rare.  The combination of our own defense mechanisms, coupled with proper
precautions (like good hygene) keep the problem under control.  In the
here and now, computers are going through the equivalent of the middle
ages: the threats are poorly understood, and proper precautions seem too
impractical to be used routinely.  But in the far future, an epidemic
of computer viruses will be as rare as epidemics of Black Death are today.
Yes, its vaguely within the realm of possibility, but in this case, it
seems so unlikely to me as to defy the suspension of disbelief.  I consider
it much more likely that the Rebellion will create a new Long Night (already, 
I doubt that the Imperial Treasury would honor a draft from the branch 
treasury at Antares; see the entry "Twilight" in the Encyclopedia.  I wonder
how many centuries of rebellion it would take for the last governmental body 
claiming to be the "Third Imperium" to cease to exist?  Of the factions, 
only two, Lucan and Strephon, still cling to the name).
 
STARSHIP DESIGNS
 
I have recently finished reading "To Shining Sea - a history of the US Navy,
1775 to 1991" by Stephen Howarth (a good book, and recommended reading).  In
one instance, he mentions the design parameters of the early Navy Frigates.
They were designed to be able to outrun anything they couldn't outfight, and
were remarkably successful at it, (the accuracy of American gunners compared 
to their adversaries helped a lot, too).  So, even though "Frigate" is not
a classification in use by the Imperial Navy, here are a couple of frigates.
Let me know what you think of them.
 
I was aided in designing these by a Quattro Pro spreadsheet of my own
devising.  I am pretty confident that it is accurate, but it certainly would
not hurt to check the numbers out if you think that there is something fishy
about these designs.  As near as I can remember, there are only a few
non-standard computations used.  The major one is that the missile magazine
is *NOT* in a bay, and does *NOT* use hardpoints.  Its volume was calculated
at the total volume of missiles kept in it, and the cost per missile was 
computed at 1/13500 of the cost of a 100 ton bay.  Agility was computed with
the standard MegaTraveller formula; the normal energy consumption of the
maneuver drive *WAS* included in "all other components".  Therefore, agility
represents the additional power available to overdrive the thruster plates, so
that the ship can dodge laterally at up to 6G, or sprint at up to 12G for
short periods of time (enough to spoil someone's aim, anyway).  I should
probably note that according to the SOpM, the drives can be run at 140%
indefinitely, making the ships maximum combat accelleration about 8.4G (and
presumably agility would be 3.6).  
 
I have added an endurance section to the UCP, which details the fuel
consumption and endurance of the ships.  Although these ships have unlimited
cruise accelleration (1G, Agility 0), some of my merchant designs only carry
fuel for limited accelleration (typically 9 days at 1G, Agility 0).  The 
endurance section details these limitations and fuel consumption at Max
Accelleration and at Full Combat Power.
 
PA-GUN FRIGATE
 
Constructed as a proof-of-concept ship for the Domain of Deneb Imperial Navy,
this vessel is currently undergoing trials.  If successful, frigate-class
ships can add sigificant, and more importantly, survivable firepower to the 
Domain's forces, at approximately the same cost as a standard cruiser.  In
a confrontation with a roughly comprable standard design, the frigate will
be significantly harder to hit, due to its compact hull and extensive
screens.  The design sacrifices jump capability and secondary armament for a
strong primary weapon, high accelleration, and excellent maneuverability.
 
CraftID:	PA-Gun Frigate, Type=FFP, TL=15, MCr=117,667.621.
Hull:		85500/213750, Disp=95,000, Config=1SL, Armor=58G (ArmorDM=-6).
		UnloadedMass=1,810,962 tons, LoadedMass=1,843,389 tons.
Power:		19835/39670, Fusion=5,355,428Mw, NominalDuration=30/90.
Locomotion:	14535/29070, Thrusters=6, Agility=6.
		2565/5130, Jump=2.
		NOE=190kph, Cruise=750kph, Max=1,000kph.
Communications:	MesonComm=3xSystem, RadioComm=3xSystem, LaserComm=3xSystem,
		MaserComm=3xSystem, RadioJam=3xSystem.
Sensors:	Densitometer=3xHighPen-1km, Neutrino=3x10kw, 
		ActiveEMS=3xSystem, PassiveEMS=3xInterstellar, 
		EMSJam=3xSystem.
		ActObjScan=Simple, ActObjPin=Simple, PassObjScan=Routine,
		PassObjPin=Routine, PassEngScan=Routine, PassEngPin=Routine.
Offense:	PartAccel=T00, Missile=xA0, BLaser=xx4
		Batteries 1             50         150
		Bearing   1             37         112
Defense:	DefDM=-14, NucDamper=9, MesonScreen=9, BlackGlobe=4.
		SandCaster=xx9 
		Batteries   27
		Bearing     20
Control:	BasicEnv, BasicLS, ExtLS, AirLocks=45, Gravity, InertialComp.
		Computer=3xMod-9/Fib, Panel=238xHoloDynamic,
		Special=75xLargeHolo, HUD=163xHoloHUD.
Accomodations:	Sectons=95, Crew=505, (30xBridge, 248xEngineer, 69xCommand, 
		38xMaintainance, 15xSteward, 92xGunner, 9xFlight, 4xMedical).
		Bunks=400, SmallStateroom=70, Staterooms=35.
		SubCraft=(Shuttle, Cutter, ShipsBoat, 2xLaunch, 4xAirRaft).
Other:		Cargo=580kl, Fuel=458,804kl, Scoops, Purifier=24 hours.
		ObjSize=Large, EMLevel=Moderate (E-M Masking).
		Magazine=60 bty-rnds.
Endurance:	30 days Cruise (MDrive=1, Agility=0, Consumption=113.63 kl/hr);
		3 more days at full combat power (Consumption=2677.71 kl/hr),
		and 1 Jump-2 (Consumption=192,375kl for Jump=2).
		One hour at Full Thrust uses 8.27 hours of Cruise duration.
		One hour of Combat Power uses 22.56 hours of Cruise duration.
Notes:		Cost is for Prototype, and includes architect's fees (but not
		the cost of the subordinate craft).  Production cost would be
		MCr 93,202.076 (without subordinate craft).  The cost of
		subordinate craft have not been included, because standard
		craft are assumed to be procured locally.  The docking area
		is adjacent to the cargo bay, and fittings are installed to
		accomodate a modular cutter.
 
MESON-GUN FRIGATE
 
The second proof-of-concept vessel for the frigate class; this ship mounts a
meson gun as its primary weapon.  Some hull armor had to be removed to
maintain the agility required by the frigate concept.  The net result is a
ship with slightly less protection, but better primary armament, that the
PA-Gun frigate.
 
CraftID:	MesonGun Frigate, Type=FF, TL=15, MCr=100,222.252
Hull:		85500/213750, Disp=95,000, Config=1SL, Armor=55G (ArmorDM=-5).
		UnloadedMass=1,708,896 tons, LoadedMass=1,745,946 tons.
Power:		19463/38926, Fusion=5,254,857Mw, NominalDuration=30/90.
Locomotion:	14535/29070, Thrusters=6, Agility=6.
		2565/5130, Jump=2.
		NOE=190kph, Cruise=750kph, Max=1,000kph.
Communications:	MesonComm=3xSystem, RadioComm=3xSystem, LaserComm=3xSystem,
		MaserComm=3xSystem, RadioJam=3xSystem.
Sensors:	Densitometer=3xHighPen-1km, Neutrino=3x10kw, 
		ActiveEMS=3xSystem, PassiveEMS=3xInterstellar, 
		EMSJam=3xSystem.
		ActObjScan=Simple, ActObjPin=Simple, PassObjScan=Routine,
		PassObjPin=Routine, PassEngScan=Routine, PassEngPin=Routine.
Offense:	MesonGun=T0x, Missile=x90, BLaser=xx4
		Battery  1             50         100
		Bearing  1             37          75
Defense:	DefDM=-14, NucDamper=9, MesonScreen=9, BlackGlobe=4.
		SandCaster=xx9 
		Batteries   28
		Bearing     21
Control:	BasicEnv, BasicLS, ExtLS, AirLocks=45, Gravity, InertialComp.
		Computer=3xMod-9/fib, Panel=195xHoloDynamic,
		Special=65xLargeHolo, HUD=130xHoloHUD.
Accomodations:	Sectons=95, Crew=446, (27xBridge, 245xEngineer, 61xCommand, 
		29xMaintainance, 13xSteward, 59xGunner, 9xFlight, 3xMedical).
		Bunks=353, SmallStateroom=62, Staterooms=31.
		SubCraft=(Shuttle, Cutter, ShipsBoat, 2xLaunch, 4xAirRaft).
Other:		Cargo=5186kl, Fuel=455,185kl, Scoops, Purifier=24 hours.
		ObjSize=Large, EMLevel=Moderate (E-M Masking).
		Magazine=60 bty-rnds.
Endurance:	30 days Cruise (MDrive=1, Agility=0, Consumption=113.63 kl/hr);
		3 more days at full combat power (Consumption=2513.79 kl/hr),
		and 1 Jump-2 (Consumption=192,375kl for Jump=2).
		One hour at Full Thrust uses 7.77 hours of Cruise duration.
		One hour of Combat Power uses 22.12 hours of Cruise duration.
Notes:		Cost is for Prototype, and includes architect's fees (but not
		the cost of the subordinate craft).  Production cost would be
		MCr 79,383.962 (without subordinate craft).  The cost of
		subordinate craft have not been included, because standard
		craft are assumed to be procured locally.  The docking area
		is adjacent to the cargo bay, and fittings are installed to
		accomodate a modular cutter.  Fittings are also in place to
		install modular troop quarters for up to 150 marines in
		bunks (2025kl); the balance of the hold would be available
		for their equipment.
 
THAT'S ALL FOR NOW!
 
Wildstar (aka Guy Garnett)                                          TRAVELLER
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  Science-Fiction Adventure in the Far Future
 
Captain (over intercom) : "The hijackers have entered the Bridge!  All han..."
Hijacker : "We have control of the bridge.  You will do as I say!"
Gzoe seals the turret hatch, and carefully removes the safety interlocks and
powers up the laser turret.  With the interlocks removed, the turret can be
depressed just far enough to clip the starboard wing of the bridge.  He fires,
and a meter-wide chunk of the starboard bridge wall vaporizes, right next to
the (unmanned) communications console.  As he guessed, the hijackers were
standing unsecured, and are sucked out the breach.  Luckily, no-one was out
of uniform, as the crew uniform is a light-weight, high tech vaccsuit.  Thus
Gzoe became the only vargr in known space to deliberately fire on his own
ship.  For any action, there is a vargr crazy enought to attempt it.
Captain : "You idiot!  Now we can't question them!  And think of the repairs!"
Gzoe: "Captain, you appear to be injured; I have my medical kit right here.
(Fssst)  There, now do you feel more comfortable?  Let's dress that wound."
Captain : "Gzoe you ... idiot ... huh? ... mffg ..."


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2948
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 91 11:50:22 EDT
From: burt@ptltd.COM (Burton Choinski.)

Subject: Starship stuff, a gun to the head

[] From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
[] Subject: (2909)  New Traveller )-8
[] 
[] Are we going to be happy to be using a system where
[] an average character can take two average damage .50 caliber machine gun
[] bullets to the head without becoming unconscious?

Use a variant of 2300ad.  Yes, you can be killed by a .22 shot to the head.
Makes combat very lethal and not quite as desireable.
Actually, for characters I usually fudged kill results by simply making them
do 10x the DPV (or 5, whichever is higher) in damage.  This is usually enough
to knock out joe average, make the mesomorph sweat buckets, and kill any
weaker ones.  However, a 2MW phasmagun to the head will leave little more than
a vapor trail.

Paul Dale notes:
[] In message (2918?) Burton says:
[]>Another problem is missiles.  It takes a M-6 ship 1 turn to travel 6 hexes if
[]>starting from a standstill.  Missiles launched said ship when many hexes away
[]>hit THAT SAME TURN.  Ppbbtt!
[]
[] I've got the same gripe with missiles.  Mayday had an almost reasonable system
[] for missiles (you had counters and they moved and could accelerate in a rather
[] limited fashion).  The problems with having missiles as ships is that you can
[] arrange to defend against them multiple times (by not getting hit until a
[] later turn), which may seriously impair the effectiveness of missiles.  I
[] think that was the agreement Bertil and I arrived at when we discussed this
[] topic.

Well, I have to admit to a heavy Japanese Animation influence on how missiles
will operate.  I see them jigging and weaving all over the place, making them damned
tough to hit.

[]>With a 30 second turn (3 personal combat turns), the hexes are 4.5km across
[]>(so we'll fudge it to 5km).
[]
[] 5km is getting awfully small, how many ships can you stack into a hex?
[] A 1Mton battleship is a measly 150m diameter sphere so you could get lots
[] of them in, however a cyclinder of the same volume with a base area of
[] 10000m^2 (=1 hectare) is 1.35 km long (and the cross-section need not be
[] anything like that big).  A cone/wedge configuration will be even worse.
[] If I was in one of those 'big' ships, I wouldn't desire another one inside
[] the same hex as I was in.  [ I do know that ships of those sizes are not

Well, ships that big are on the line of Star Wars "Star Destroyers".  Just
huge wedges.  Presumably big ships like that don't close to "knife fighting"
range but have it out at some distance with spinal mounts, saving "lesser" weapons
for smaller cruisers and fighters.  I admit, I like a more "Star Wars" feel to
my space combat.

[] really combat capable but they do serve as an example ].  Having 5km hexes is
[] also going to cause some havoc with ranges....how far can you see in space?
[] (a very large number of hexes).  Active sensors are going to have some really
[] impressive ranges (0.1 light seconds is almost 30000km, 6000 hexes for a round
[] trip).  This would tend to make having sensors pretty much a non-issue,
[] especially for the long range EMS ones.

I think the whole mess of sensor lockon in MT just slows things down.  Save
a few headaches and assume ships with reasonable sensors can spot other ships,
UNLESS the target has some sort of ECM (EMM masking, Black Globe) top make it
tough.  

Sensors are probably best used in the pre-combat and post-combat phases
(as stated in book 2, for detecting objects prior to combat). 

[]>I really don't like the real movement very much when I'm playing a space-opera
[]>game.  I may try to use a variant of the 2300ad system, where ships have a
[]>raw speed for each turn.  Actually, I'd like to use some Star Fleet Battles
[]>Ideas as well.  With such a system, you actually have to plot your movement
[]>so as to expose your best weapons (or to hide battle damage to the armor.
[]
[] Going towards SFB would make the ship design process much more interesting.  You
[] suddenly have to allocate positions for all of your weapons and (I presume)
[] firing arcs (cones?) for them.  This would add some details for die-hard board
[] gamers; while for the rest of us who really don't like lots of paperwork, it

What I meant in using SFB ideas is actualy to create some sort of ship layout
with check boxes for damage.  Now, for larger ships this could get cumbersome
(although not as much with my new damage calculation), but it would allow you
to see your damage, weapons available and other information at a glance. 
Those who don't want to go into that much detail can simply list it and use
and abstract system (batteries/batteries bearing).

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now some new stuff.  Who's the bonehead who figured that "mass equals power
consumption"?  I don't care if your radio is the size of a chicklet or
as big as a house, you need X power to get a clear signal to Function(X) miles,
no matter how much mass you shuck off.  Obviously, Radios, Radio Jammers
and Radar are the big criminals in this.

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The rules state "Turrets and Cupolas may be added to the hull, with no more
than a 40% increase in hull volume".  As such I have decided to give the old
"1 hardpoint/100t" rule the heave-ho.  What (you may say in horror) is this man
doing!  Well, If you can design a laser with striker rules that can perform
JUST like a ship laser, and place a good number of them in a large vehicle,
it seems silly that a starship the same size can only have 3.  Period.

Now, while powermongers may rub their hand in glee at the prospect of having
tones of weapons on their ships, have them keep in mind that Pirates and
Naval ships will be equally well armed.  (This may give them a stroke -- a
400t corsair mounting 160 missile launchers would be a nightmare.  God forbid
you meet a ship of the line with an attitude!)

Anyone out there seen "Gal Force", an animated movie from Japan?  In this
movie, lasers are handeled like this:


                        //
                       //-------------    To target ->
      Vane ------->   //-+-----------
                     //-++-----------
                    //-+++-----------
                   // ||||
################################################
######################## HULL ####################################################

The lasers are fixed in the hull, while movable vanes are used to reflect the
beams toward the target.  For atmospheric reentry, the vanes are simply folded
down. "turret" hits simply blow the vane away.  This has the advantage of
having all 30 beam lasers on one vane (thus explaining how a turret hit
knocks out the use of 30 lasers.  Ships could be limited to the number or size
of vanes by their surface area (as stated for Solar Cells, square root of
interior volume).  So your average Type-S could have 1 vane of 36 lasers,
2 vanes of 18, etc.  Having the vanes up increases your reflected signature,
making you easier to detect (so most ships trying to be stealthy will remain
locked down until nearly at the target).  Also, locked down lasers are protected
by hull armor.  Thus ships might trade missile blows until they reach favorable
laser range, at which time they lock up and open fire.

Why do missiles need to be turreted?  They have their own guidance.  So 
missile batteries take up 1-ton cupola's each.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't have COACC, but I do have striker.  I figured out the data required for
rockets from striker and converted it to a usable form for starships.  Yes,
you too can build the challenger.  If anyone wants this data, just ask.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Handling large numbers:

I plan to handle lasers BASED SLIGHTLY on the HG ratings.  Lasers (on a vane)
are arranged in an array.  These arrays are somewhat dictated by the battery
ratings given.  Let me elucidate...

As stated: 1 Beam laser (factor 1), 2 Beam Lasers (factor 2), 3 Beam Lasers
(factor 3), 6 beam lasers (factor 4), etc.  Ignore TL modifiers for factor
(improved lasers have better penetration, not better to-hit numbers).

Since the base number is 1, having 2 lasers is a +1 to hit, 3 a +2, and 6 a +3.

Having multiple banks multiplies the single bank rating.  Thus 2 banks are x2,
3 banks are x3, and 6 banks are x4.  When figuring the bonus, the larger number
is used for the add and the smaller is used for the multiplier.

Say a ship has a 3x6 laser array.  The 6 provides a +3 modifier, while the 3
multiplies it by 3, giving +9 to hit with this array.

In combat, for every +2 over the required number an extra laser hit takes place,
up to the limit of the array.  Thus, a really hot gunner could square the array
and get nearly all to hit, while an unskilled one is depending on the shear
volume of laser beams to get at least a few hits.

Particle beams, energy weapons, missiles, etc use the same system, except that
missiles, being independantly guided, get an extra impact for every +1 over
the required number.  The inital gunner skill indicates a better lock-on.

Sandcasters calculate a defense DM that is used against laser targeting and
missile lock on.

Again, comments are welcome.
     -- Burton



------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2949
Date: 	Mon, 30 Sep 1991 13:37:33 -0230
From: Anthony Neal <uunet!altair.cs.mun.ca!anthonyn@sequent.UUCP>
Subject: Alright! Let's hear it for metlay!!


	And the skies opened above me, and a booming voice above said...

		Yeah, let's cut the crap and get it together, shall we?

		I have been gaming since '85 in systems such as Top Secret,
	AD&D, Gamma World, 2300 AD, and recently GURPS, and about 2 years
	ago, I managed to lay my eyes on what I thought was gonna be the be
	all/end all of science fiction role playing games. I'd heard of 
	Traveller, and it was recommended as THE system to get. MegaTraveller?
	I thought that it was gonna be clear, concise and easy to learn.

						HAH!

		I have spent 2 years trying to decipher the rules books and try to
	get the game mechanics finely tuned, most of my attempts ending in failure.
	Until I subscribed to this mail list, I was totally lost. Now, I am only
	partly lost. Substantially large improvement, don't you think?
		And then I read Metlay's comment. Right-o!! Agreed. The packaging 
	stinks... (Not meaning to offend any GDWers, but it's true.) And as for
	continuity, well, at least we could make sure all the background info
	is actually part of the rules books. I tried building ships and vehicles
	by the given rules. What a mess. None of them worked worth a damn. Then
	I got the TYPO list. I spent two days correcting parts of my books. 
		Anyway, the long and the short of it is... No wonder MegaTraveller
	ended up as such a big flop! It scares the hell out of all novice GM's it
	comes in contact with! You open the cover, and nothing fits! And forget 
	about running the complex politics of the Rebellion when personal combat
	still makes you cringe! 
		But, I'm losing my cool. Sorry. Only purpose of this was to say, 
	"way to go, Metlay!" In the meantime, I have a lot of work on the system
	in order to get the game to a state where I can run it - comfortably.

		Oh, and somebody asked a little while ago as to whether anyone had ever
	tried to run a cyberpunk twist in Traveller. Yeah, I tried. It was such a 
	farce that I burned the character records that were used for that 
	particular game. (And the players cheered me on...) In short, it's a real 
	bad idea, at least if you try to convert the GURPS material. Maybe at TL16+,
	but not at present Imperial level.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Anthony Neal                 |"Lets bring up the cargo manifest. 2300 laser 
anthonyn@garfield.cs.mun.ca  | pistols, 1600 laser rifles, 1 ATV, 67 suits of
Memorial University Of       | combat armor and... What the hell are 
Newfoundland                 | 'tribbles'?"
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2950
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 91 12:16:55 MST
From: npc@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (Nick Christenson, University of Arizona)
Subject: Very very large gas giant.


It's been a long time since we've had an interesting astrophysics
question here.

The gas giant in question masses ~196000 earth masses or 0.058 solar
masses.  The smallest known main sequence star masses around 0.07 
solar masses.  This means that your "gas giant" is right on the
verge of being either a minimal type M main sequence star or a 
maximal brown dwarf, which I can't say.  I couldn't find the reference
in Chandrasekhar to the minimal mass to begin fusion and it doesn't
say in bohm-Vitense, Abell, Schwarzschild or Zeilik.  Either way,
you have a very borderline case which, if I were able to study, would
mean an excellent thesis at the very least :-)  If it is massive enough
to begin fusion, I'm not certain it would be stable.  It might be
a new type of variable, a pulsating fuser or something like that.
Note that even without fusion it will put out a lot of heat it stored
virially (is that a word?) during it's condensation.  I wouldn't 
expect a planet to be habitable near it.  Also, since it is so massive,
I wouldn't count on planets whose orbit falls between the proto-star
and the primary to be stable on time scales of millions of years.

My advice?  Drop its mass by a factor of 10 when nobody is looking.

Nick Christenson
npc@soliton.physics.arizona.edu



------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2951
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1991 22:17 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: GraDAR, and Neutrino Telescopes

Howdy Partners!

I just heared about sumthin' y'all jest might wanna heer about...

Aparantly, in a recent issue of Aviation Week (I didn't see it)
there is an article on GRAvitational Detection And Ranging.  Densiometers,
There are (this is second hand) labs in the US working on developing it
for use in the detection of smuggling operations.  WOW!

Also, in a recent Science Times (Again I didn't see it
) there is an article on a neutrino telescope.  Instead of the huge vats of
drycleaning fluid it is using the Pacific Ocean.  Apparantly the detectors
looking for cherenkov radiation are essentually looking down through the
Earth (Shielding cosmic radiation and other nasty noisy stuff)

Densiometers and Neutrino sensors... In MY lifetime?

But seriously, I didn't see the articles.  Maybe some kind soul out in TML
land can see if they can find the articles and maybe tell the rest of us
about it?  Hmmmm?  Please?  Please?  PLease?

We don't get Aviation Week around here.

Scott Kellogg
Dr. Krrressssh Trrrweeeerrrl
{Roll the R!}

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2952
Subject: Re: TML biweekly: Msgs 2942-2946 V19#18 
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 91 00:18:10 -0700
From: bart@cs.uoregon.edu

>From the PBEM recap:
> The snowball sprayed hydrogen between
> the Alcyon and the fleet, and jumped.  As Alcyon jumped, they 
> ignited the  hydrogen to blind the fleet's sensors (at least
> temporarily) to their neutrino trail.

Aiigh! :-) "igniting the hydrogen" was bad enough :-) :-).  But
I *absolutely refuse* to make burning hydrogen impenetrable to
neutrinos.  In *anyone's* universe.  Period. :-)

Seriously, neutrinos will penetrate even several feet of
superdense hull with unmeasurable attenuation
 -- who knows how the TL99 magic black box
neutrino detectors work, but here on Earth at TL8 (or so) we
use bazillions of gallons of water and hope that one or two
neutrinos per gazillion will be absorbed in it.  Your burning
hydrogen would affect a neutrino trail not at all.

I think the burning hydrogen just obscured essential sensor
information in the visible and infrared :-).

					Bart Massey
					bart@cs.uoregon.edu

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2953
From: richard@oresoft.COM (Richard Johnson)
Subject: Hubris (What can happen when...)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 91 7:43:42 PDT

I found this in this morning's comp.risks digest.  I found it a
splendid example of why you should go ahead and get that comp-2 skill
level instead of trusting the manufacturer...


: Date: Mon, 30 Sep 91 12:10:51 PDT
: From: bremner@cs.sfu.ca (David Bremner)
: Subject: Space Station Software Hubris
: 
: In the Fall 1991 issue of Graduate Computerworld ( A free publication
: consisting of promo articles on prospective employers ), there is an 
: interview with Julius Gabriel, manager of software engineering at Spar 
: Aerospace.
: 
: Spar is doing the software for the Mobile Servicing Station; essentially a
: mobile version of the Canada-Arm.  Gabriel notes that "The entire space 
: station will be highly computerized, with a software program in excess of 
: 10 million lines of code".  Apparently the MSS will be a rather small 
: fraction of the whole, about "half a million lines of code".
: 
: Master of understatement, Gabriel notes that "Once its up there it's 
: difficult to fix the software".  The article notes that "Naturally, the 
: entire software process adheres to rigorous standards such as the military 
: 2167A standard".  Gabriel makes some good points about the importance of 
: software development methodology, but what worries me is the attitude 
: that writing ( working ! ) 10 million line programs is a solved problem, 
: that all we have to do is use Ada (TM AJPO) and mil-std 2167A, and 
: everything will work fine.
:                                                                  David
: 
: References: Page 14, Fall 1991 _Graduate Computer World_
: bremner@cs.sfu.ca			          ubc-cs!fornax!bremner

- -- 
Richard Johnson     richard@oresoft.com      richard@agora.rain.com
Sic gloria mundi.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2954
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1991 16:35:04 EDT
From: kirsch@rhea.informatik.uni-bonn.de
Subject: RE: Introductions to All around (Starship designs)

Hello out there...

I think it will be a good idea to ask Guy Garnett (Wildstar) how someone
is able to pay the bill for his ships. He has designed two ships:

> CraftID:	PA-Gun Frigate, Type=FFP, TL=15, MCr=117,667.621.
> CraftID:	MesonGun Frigate, Type=FF, TL=15, MCr=100,222.252

Both ships have a really impressing, but I think that's too much money for
a simple frigate. What the hell a Battleship shall cost ? I must admit,
I had designed my first ships in a similar manner, but I have decided to
stop the use of this designes, because of the reasons mentioned below.

Can someone tell me, what's the gross national product of a system like
Glisten is ? I have estimated an average of 10,000,000 MCr. Do you
really think, a system is able to use 1% of its income for one ship, and
those ship will even be a frigate, not a Battleship...

I personally (as GM !) have decided not to use any armour in ships
greater than 2000 tons displacement. Armour is simply to expensive.
As a navy admiral I would decide to build two ships instead of one
with an armour. The price would be the same. Armour is only efficient if
you have a small ship, because it decreases the number of additional
critical hits.

Any comments ?

Juergen

- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Juergen Kirsch
Institut fuer Informatik, Universitaet Bonn
Germany
kirsch@rhea.informatik.uni-bonn.de
              

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2955
From: richard@oresoft.COM (Richard Johnson)
Subject: A little less Obtuse
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 91 8:04:25 PDT


I hope to see the next generation of RPGs go beyond what has already
been marketed.  I think, from our discussions, we can see that game
publishers have some ideas.  We can also see that their ideas are
necessarily limited (to us) by the environment from which they arise
- - the printing industry.  With that in mind, here are some ideas I'd
like to toss out in the hopes they'll get tos someone who actually
might want to use some or all of the concepts.

The other day I waxed eloquent about using computers and integrating
them with RPGs and really said very little.  I apologize for wasting
your time.  Now I hope to try this again with a little more thought
and some concrete proposals.

Today we get idea number 1.  Further ideas will be in later posts, 
so we don't get overwhelmed with text.

#######Idea 1: The Composite Game (aka the CAT proposal)#############
           This is immediately implementable (1992)

I call this the CAT proposal, because it's simply a formalization
of what the CAT sub-list members are doing individually, and in a
somewhat more limited fashion.  

Imagine an RPG that is still a table-top RPG, with GM, and printed 
rules.  Only there is one *big* difference.  All of the nitty-gritty, 
penicl-pushing, details are handled by silicon, rather than dice and 
gray cells.   That is, the game comes with a program (and/or special-
ized computer) that handles character generation, combat, travel 
times, world generation, trade and commerce, etc.  

The GM still has control over what actually gets said and done, and 
can therefore modify the output of the game, and input new parameters,
characters, data of any sort.  The computer can keep track where the
party is, what their possesions are, and so forth, leaving the players
to concentrate on *playing*, and the GM to concentrate on keeping the
plot and game flow together.

Addidtionally, with computations done by Si, you could do the evil
things of making space three or four dimensional, making events
transpire in two different milieus simultaneously, making fuel burn
a function of speed and distance, making healing time more playable.
####################################################################

So let's talk about this.  I suspect it's a natural creative avenue
for TML'ers, especially the ones interested in TDR.  No-one says 
whatever new sci-fi game it turns into has to be MT-compatible.
Although it certainly could be...

Anyone wanna implement or suggest this (or some variant) to some 
gaming house?
- -- 
Richard Johnson     richard@oresoft.com      richard@agora.rain.com
Sic gloria mundi.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2956
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 91 14:02:11 EDT
From: burt@ptltd.COM (Burton Choinski.)

From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
[] So having two ships in the same hex may result in a collision?  Good.  If two
[] ships manage to get that close to one another, some roll should be made to see
[] if they collide, especially if one is trying to ram the other.  (E.g. if one
[] is a missile.)

This is what I feel too.  Having two large ships of the line circling in the 
same hex should be asking for a hull-scraping.

[]> >Armor should be used similar to the 2300ad way -- shots that do not
[]> >penetrate can cause surface hits.  This will most likely damage sensors,
[]> >exposed comminications gear,turrets,and perhaps the maneuver drive (giv it half
[]> >armor?).
[]
[] Why aren't turrets armoured?

Well, turrets are armored, but probably not as much as the main hull.
Perhaps a surface hit welds the turret in one place, or (as I stated for lasers)
blows away the reflective surface of a vane.

[]> >			     Actually, I'd like to use some Star Fleet Battles
[]> >Ideas as well.  With such a system, you actually have to plot your movement
[]> >so as to expose your best weapons (or to hide battle damage to the armor.
[]> 
[]> Going towards SFB would make the ship design process much more interesting.
[]> You suddenly have to allocate positions for all of your weapons and (I
[]> presume) firing arcs (cones?) for them.
[]
[]
[] This isn't too bad for small ships with a few weapons, but how do you fancy
[] allocating the firing arcs of 20 batteries?  Or (in the case of a big
[] battle-wagon) 100+ batteries?  I suppose the best way would be to find how
[] many batteries you have of a certain weapon type, and then decide how many
[] you want in each of six general arcs - front, back, port, starboard, up, down.
[] Except that some weapons could cover more than one of these arcs; anyone want
[] to figure out a rule for what percentage of weapons can cover multiple arcs?
[] Or would we have to draw up accurate 3-D plans of every ship we design, and
[] then put weapons onto them and figure out where they can fire?

If firing arcs are to be used, I presume some means of abstracting it can be done,
as you mentioned above.

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I want to make a retraction.  In my last message I mentioned how a ship could have
more than 1 hardpoint per 100t?  Well, thinking it over and chewing around some
numbers, the number of hardpoints should be based on surface area instead.
Base SA equals (displacement/100)^0.666666 times some constant.  Open frame ships
have DOUBLE the figured number, irregular ones have 50% more.

How many hardpoints should a 100t ship get?  Maybe not 40 like I mentioned before,
but certainly more than 1.  Perhaps they can get 4, with each movable hardpoint
requiring DOUBLE the space (thus, on a 100t ship you could have one turret and
2 fixed missile harpoints, or go for the gusto with 4 missile hardpoints).

This will SIGNIFICANTLY alter the armaments of large ships (since 2x size is
not equal to 2x weapons).  Spinal mounts have their hardpoint limits checked, but
only use 1 hardpoint (firing port).

(btw, is there any reason WHY only one spinal mount is allowed?  If the ship is
large enough, could it not have 2 parrallel, or 3 triaxial mounts?
Perhaps with the limitation that they all be of the same type and size.)

===============================================================================
Burton Choinski                                       Phoenix Technologies, LTD
"All opinions are mine, not Phoenix's"                            Cambridge, MA
===============================================================================
   

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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Date: Sun Oct  6 21:00:12 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #242: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2957  01-Oct-91 William Dow Riede Re: (2950) Very very large gas giant. << Nick
2958  02-Oct-91 MacGyver          Re: (2955) A little less Obtuse << > Imagine 
2959  02-Oct-91 grue@cs.uq.oz.au  Re: A little less obtuse << hi again, In arti
2960  02-Oct-91 grue@cs.uq.oz.au  Yet more about ships and things << hi yet aga
2961  02-Oct-91 Adrian Hurt       Re: ship combat << burt@ptltd.COM (Burton Cho
2962  02-Oct-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Turret Limitations << Burton Choinski writes:
2963  02-Oct-91 gummo!gsw@att.att Igniting hydrogen... << [I edited the subject
2964  02-Oct-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Space Combat turn length << Well. Just to thr
2965  03-Oct-91 hayes@ll.mit.edu  "Burning" Hydrogen in space and neutrinos << 
2966  03-Oct-91 Martin Omander    Computers_Supporting_RPG << Greetings, Travel
2967  03-Oct-91 jdietz@sdcc13.UCS  << Subject: Re: (2958) (2959) A little less 
2968  03-Oct-91 Genichi-Nishio    Let me introduce myself << Hello. Let me intr
2969  02-Oct-91 uunet!popeet!wild Replies from Wildstar << THE COST OF WARSHIPS

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2957
Date: Tue,  1 Oct 1991 18:44:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: William Dow Rieder <wr0k+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: (2950) Very very large gas giant.

Nick writes:

>The gas giant in question masses ~196000 earth masses or 0.058 solar
>masses.  The smallest known main sequence star masses around 0.07 
>solar masses.  This means that your "gas giant" is right on the
>verge of being either a minimal type M main sequence star or a 
>maximal brown dwarf, which I can't say.  I couldn't find the reference

Would it be large enough to ignite deuterium fusion?  I would think
that would require less mass, and keep it going for a little while at least.

Hmm...

					W. Dow Rieder

 	When the only tool you have is a hammer, all your problems
start to look like nails...

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2958
From: MacGyver <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: (2955) A little less Obtuse
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 91 0:20:26 EDT

> Imagine an RPG that is still a table-top RPG, with GM, and printed 
> rules.  Only there is one *big* difference.  All of the nitty-gritty, 
> penicl-pushing, details are handled by silicon, rather than dice and 
> gray cells.   That is, the game comes with a program (and/or special-
> ized computer) that handles character generation, combat, travel 
> times, world generation, trade and commerce, etc.  

	I've seen this come up a few times. Once during the conference
with FASA, once during the conference with DGP. They have thought about
this as well. The problem with the idea is market. How much more are you
willing to pay for this software? In addtion, which computer should
this software be intended for? IBM? Mac? Apple? NeXT? How many RPGer are
willing to pay for this? Based on the various game companies, not enough
to justify the effort. And for a specialized computer, that would
push the R&D cost even higher, and market lower. From what I'm told.


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2959
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 91 15:26:25 EST
From: grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Subject: Re: A little less obtuse

hi again,

In article 2955, Richard Johnson says:

>The other day I waxed eloquent about using computers and integrating
>them with RPGs and really said very little.  I apologize for wasting
>your time.  Now I hope to try this again with a little more thought
>and some concrete proposals.

>Today we get idea number 1.  Further ideas will be in later posts, 
>so we don't get overwhelmed with text.

Schucks!  I've got to wait...never, I'll say my bit anyway :-)


>#######Idea 1: The Composite Game (aka the CAT proposal)#############
>           This is immediately implementable (1992)

>I call this the CAT proposal, because it's simply a formalization
>of what the CAT sub-list members are doing individually, and in a
>somewhat more limited fashion.  

>Imagine an RPG that is still a table-top RPG, with GM, and printed 
>rules.  Only there is one *big* difference.  All of the nitty-gritty, 
>penicl-pushing, details are handled by silicon, rather than dice and 
>gray cells.   That is, the game comes with a program (and/or special-
>ized computer) that handles character generation, combat, travel 
>times, world generation, trade and commerce, etc.  

So long as the computer doesn't begin to dominate the game, this is a great
way to handle lots & lots of added realism (gee, you're about 13.7m from freddie
and you've got [big gun #24].  Splat goes freddie's left hand).  Computers
can handle lots of added detail and complexity without everything becoming
a table feast (has anybody heard of rolemaster?  tables, tables and more
tables).  Things like handling passage of time, is something that I am very
lax about (who isn't, how many people account for characters aging during play?)

My personal preference would be tending towards a small portable computer that
included all this kind of stuff.  Having to lug a (huge) PC around just so
you can play the game is kind of stupid.  Then there is the problem of what
happens when the thing breaks down (sorry guys, the session has to be cancelled
since the bloody database is broken :-)


>The GM still has control over what actually gets said and done, and 
>can therefore modify the output of the game, and input new parameters,
>characters, data of any sort.  The computer can keep track where the
>party is, what their possesions are, and so forth, leaving the players
>to concentrate on *playing*, and the GM to concentrate on keeping the
>plot and game flow together.

The GM must be able to 'fudge' things at a moments notice (without the players
being able to see him do so???).  As GM I often fudge all kinds of die rolls
(doesn't everybody?), sometimes it even helps the players ;-}


>Addidtionally, with computations done by Si, you could do the evil
>things of making space three or four dimensional, making events
>transpire in two different milieus simultaneously, making fuel burn
>a function of speed and distance, making healing time more playable.

Yeah, and having stars go nova in real time!  More seriously, things like
having starships that actually travel between systems so you meet old 'friends'
intermittantly --- the current tables don't really account for this kind of
thing.  I'm sure people can come up with lots and lots of different
bookkeeping style things that machines would be really good at handling.
[ As an aside: can anybody give me an English word the included
   the pairs of double letter in a row?  No it isn't really related to this
   topic ]


>So let's talk about this.  I suspect it's a natural creative avenue
>for TML'ers, especially the ones interested in TDR.  No-one says 
>whatever new sci-fi game it turns into has to be MT-compatible.
>Although it certainly could be...

What warts and all?  The system that is used underneath isn't really all that
important (well, there are some things that are :-)  Stuff like combat, trading
and so on are really quite mechanics independent.  Does it really matter if you
are using MT combat, CyberPunk combat or Morrow Project combat?  The basic
idea that being shot is usually fatal will come through.  Sure, something like
GammaWorld or D&D has a combat system that is really quite different (like
you cannot die very easily).  You wouldn't want to use that as your basis.

So long as trading is reasonably balanced and seems reasonable, it doesn't
matter too much what mechanics are used.  In fact there would be some very
stong reasons not to use a canned system (like lots of really nasty people
who are generally know as lawyers).

I'm quite sure that even the MT computer games take quite a few liberties
with the rules.  Nobody is really going to find out unless they reverse
engineer the program (which is a pretty stupid thing to be doing).  The
MT related programs that I have written have usually either taken some
easy ways out or suffered lots of nasty problems trying to stay totally
compatable.  [e.g. the ship design program doesn't support planetoid hulls
at all, and it would have been nice to make some simplifying assumptions
in the bridge/control sections.]


>Anyone wanna implement or suggest this (or some variant) to some 
>gaming house?

I'd love to implement this, my supervisor wouldn't like me taking another
couple of years out of thesis for me to do so.  I've done some work on
some areas, I'm intending to continue working on these and others in the
future.  [My current project is a rewrite of a common mud's (lp) database to
be more flexible, and I'm borrowing several ideas from MT to help --- tasks
really are wonderful things that promote consistency.  Skills are pretty nice
and MT has this wonderful skill list that I've got on-line somewhere.  The
actualy mud isn't going to be totally SciFi, but some bits of it may end up
that way.]  If I got really keen I could write some of the stuff for my pocket
calculator and let it do the work for me.

Would a gaming house show much interest in a combined RPG/computer game?
I suspect not, they would be able to produce the RPG and then flog the
computer assistance off to the public as a game-aid.  Unless the computer
was supplied with the game I cannot see it being very workable (what
computer to support?).  If the game included enough bookkeeping to warrant
computer assistance as standard, it would be very close to unplayable without
the machine aid.  Personally, I like to know what the system is using to
resolve things (lets you play the odds better :-)  A computer introduces
a 'black box' into the works that removes this knowledge.





        						Pauli

Paul Dale               | Internet/CSnet:            grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Dept of Computer Science| Bitnet:       grue%cs.uq.oz.au@uunet.uu.net
Uni of Queensland       | JANET:           grue%cs.uq.oz.au@uk.ac.ukc
Australia, 4072         | EAN:                          grue@cs.uq.oz
                        | UUCP:           uunet!munnari!cs.uq.oz!grue
f4e6g4Qh4++             | JUNET:                     grue@cs.uq.oz.au

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2960
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 91 15:41:44 EST
From: grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Subject: Yet more about ships and things

hi yet again,

In article (who really cares), Burton Choinski says:

[stuff 'mentioned above' delete]
>If firing arcs are to be used, I presume some means of abstracting it can be done,
>as you mentioned above.

Isn't that what the batteries bearing is all about?  That is what I thought
it ment.  The figures from High Guard are a little on the high side (50% of
all batteries bear at least), I don't remember the MT figures off the top
of my head but I am pretty sure that the table was almost the same.


>I want to make a retraction.  In my last message I mentioned how a ship could have
>more than 1 hardpoint per 100t?  Well, thinking it over and chewing around some
>numbers, the number of hardpoints should be based on surface area instead.
>Base SA equals (displacement/100)^0.666666 times some constant.  Open frame ships
>have DOUBLE the figured number, irregular ones have 50% more.

This seems like a plausable idea.  The TDR ship people might like to chatter
about this and then place something solid into the new design system.  I'll
try to keep my design program up to date (as far as is possible).


>2 fixed missile harpoints, or go for the gusto with 4 missile hardpoints).
Stuff the missile hardpoints, lasers are much more fun: you don't have to
worry about running out of things to throw around.  They do consume 'slightly'
more power :-)

>This will SIGNIFICANTLY alter the armaments of large ships (since 2x size is
>not equal to 2x weapons).  Spinal mounts have their hardpoint limits checked, but
>only use 1 hardpoint (firing port).

Are you suggesting that if the mount requires 50 hard points it can only be
placed into a ship with 50+ hardpoint and once built in it only uses one
hardpoint?  Seems a little silly to specify the minimum sized ship that
can contain the mount especially when the mount already uses a volume.
I also feel that it would be quite difficult to put a decent spinal mount
into a ship that didn't make the necessary hardpoint count --- they have this
annoying property of using a LOT of power and space.


>(btw, is there any reason WHY only one spinal mount is allowed?  If the ship is
>large enough, could it not have 2 parrallel, or 3 triaxial mounts?
>Perhaps with the limitation that they all be of the same type and size.)

I've often though about this exact point.  A Meson-T can easily be put into
a ship 50000 Ton  (I think my meson destroyer was 20kTon, but I'm not sure
since I don't have the file around anymore).  A 500000 Ton ship has 10 times the
space to waste, it ought to be able to fit two or three mounts.  Another thought
I've had is to mount several different spinals in a disk/spherical hull at
right angles.  A PA shouldn't be able to effect a MG thus you ought to be
able to put both onto the one ship.  Aiming does become a problem that
would have to be sorted out.




        						Pauli

Paul Dale               | Internet/CSnet:            grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Dept of Computer Science| Bitnet:       grue%cs.uq.oz.au@uunet.uu.net
Uni of Queensland       | JANET:           grue%cs.uq.oz.au@uk.ac.ukc
Australia, 4072         | EAN:                          grue@cs.uq.oz
                        | UUCP:           uunet!munnari!cs.uq.oz!grue
f4e6g4Qh4++             | JUNET:                     grue@cs.uq.oz.au

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2961
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: ship combat
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 91 13:36:27 BST

burt@ptltd.COM (Burton Choinski.) writes:
> From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
> [] So having two ships in the same hex may result in a collision?  Good.
> [] If two ships manage to get that close to one another, some roll should be
> [] made to see if they collide, especially if one is trying to ram the other.
> 
> This is what I feel too.  Having two large ships of the line circling in the 
> same hex should be asking for a hull-scraping.

Not just large ships.  The probability of collision would depend on the size
of the ships, the size of the hex, and whether or not one of them was trying
to ram.  In no case would the probability of collision be zero, though.  (But
dealing with it via the task system might be a neat trick.)

> []> >Armor should be used similar to the 2300ad way -- shots that do not
> []> >penetrate can cause surface hits.  This will most likely damage sensors,
> []> >exposed comminications gear,turrets,and perhaps the maneuver drive ...
> []
> [] Why aren't turrets armoured?
> 
> Well, turrets are armored, but probably not as much as the main hull.

Again, why not?  Since the ultimate objective is to make rules which
work for space vehicles as well as for air/ground vehicles, note that
tank turrets are often as well armoured as the hulls.

> Perhaps a surface hit welds the turret in one place, or (as I stated for
> lasers) blows away the reflective surface of a vane.

Does such damage occur with tanks?  As for the reflective vanes, what happens
if I cover my ship with the same material as the vanes?  (In personal combat,
this is what reflec armour does.)

> (btw, is there any reason WHY only one spinal mount is allowed?  If the ship
> is large enough, could it not have 2 parrallel, or 3 triaxial mounts?

This is something that I've wondered, too.  (And on this mailing list on a
few occasions.  :-)  What about catamaran designs?  Take two 30,000 ton
cruisers and join them together with a big lump of metal.  You now have one
70,000 ton cruiser with two meson guns.  (I said it was a big lump, 10,000
tons!  :-)

- -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2962
Date:     Wed, 2 Oct 91 11:05:36 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Turret Limitations

Burton Choinski writes:

         In my last message I mentioned how a ship could have 
         more than 1 hardpoint per 100t.  How many hardpoints 
         should a 100t ship get? Maybe not 40 like I mentioned 
         before, but certainly more than 1.  This will SIGNIFI-
         CANTLY alter the armaments of large ships. (BTW, is 
         there any reason WHY only one spinal mount is allowed? 
         If the ship is large enough, could it not have 2 paral-
         lel, or 3 triaxial mounts? Perhaps with the limitation 
         that they all be of the same type and size.)

I hope that Burton will forgive me for seriously editing portions of his 
message from last night.  I'd like to address his question about turrets 
without going into any of his other concerns about combat at the moment.  
(As you are all painfully aware, I tend to be of the 'hard physics' school 
of space combat, so any anime innovations are unlikely to meet with my 
approval.  Forget about that for right now.)

Overall, I would agree that the whole concept of turret limitations needs 
to be re-examined.  My personal preference would be to eliminate the limi-
tation entirely.  For energy weapons I don't think that this would cause a 
problem, because of the cost, space, and fuel requirements of the addition-
al power plant that would be required to create an energy weapon specialty 
vessel that carries substantially more weapons than possible under the 
current design rules.  In the same vein, I would see no reason why ships 
could not be built with multiple spinal mounts, although I think that a 
rule that multiple mounts must attack the same target would limit their 
utility somewhat.

The main 'problem' with removing turret restrictions is the effect that it 
would have on missile and (to a lesser extent) sand turrets.  Before this 
can be discussed, we really need to decide how missiles work.  If missiles 
require guidance from the launching ship for a significant fraction of 
their flight, then the 'game balance' limitations on missiles should be 
based on the number of control channels/transmitters that the launching/ 
guiding ship has available.  This would make them somewhat like missiles in 
Star Cruiser/2300AD.  If you wanted a missile launching specialty vessel, 
you invest in extra computers, comm links, and so forth.  On the other 
hand, if missiles are 'self guided', along the lines of the missile designs 
that have been posted here using the Robots book, there is really no basis 
for limiting the number of missiles that a single ship can launch in a 
turn, EXCEPT for the cost of the missiles.  My players, in their space 
combat session two weeks ago, burned through MCr1.5 worth of missiles, 
which is prohibitive for many player groups (I hope.)  In a Trillion Credit 
Squadron setting, forcing players to purchase and transport the missiles 
(and sand--we should insert the sand canister prices form Old Traveller in 
MT) would cut down on their use a bit.  

What do you think?

Rob Dean




------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2963
From: gummo!gsw@att.att.COM
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 91 09:49 EDT
Subject: Igniting hydrogen...

[I edited the subject line and resent this message from
traveller-request to the traveller digester queue -- James]

> Aiigh! :-) "igniting the hydrogen" was bad enough :-) :-).  But
> I *absolutely refuse* to make burning hydrogen impenetrable to
> neutrinos.  In *anyone's* universe.  Period. :-)
> 
> [ ... ]
> 
> I think the burning hydrogen just obscured essential sensor
> information in the visible and infrared :-).
> 
> 					Bart Massey
> 					bart@cs.uoregon.edu

I believe that Richard had later decided that the hydrogen was
"ignited" by fusing it (presumably with a nuclear missile or
something).

I agree that burning hydrogen would not be impenetrable to
neutrinos, but FUSING hydrogen generates neutrinos.  That WOULD
interfere with a neutrino scan.  After all, aren't they using
the neutrino detectors to detect other ships' power plants in
operation?

Jerry Williams
gsw@gummo.att.com

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2964
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1991 22:19 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Space Combat turn length

Well.

Just to throw my hat into the ring...  I once was in a Trillion Credit
Squadron match that never did really get off the ground.

We had an exploratory engagement with a few ships to get the feel for how
combat worked.  Now when the engagement started, we were at extreme gunnery
range, which is not extreme range for the sensors.

If I recall we disreguarded some of the MegaTrav sensor rules which didn't
make a lot of sence.  (If a sensor has interstellar range, why can't it
pick out a target at less than one AU?)  Thus we just assumed that both
sides detected each other.

This was mapped out on hex paper.  Using vectored movement.  Now, we assumed
that missiles accelerate at 8 Gs.  This allows them to out run even a 6 g ship/.They were moved as though they were ships, and damage was inflicted on the
turn they intercepted the targe.

But.  Due to some badly remembered rules, the cruiser's meson guns were limited
to planetary range.  The upshot of which was that both cruisers headed toward
each other at full speed, while firing off missiles and lasers.  (the only
weapons which had the range.)  Both ships had 3 G engines and so were headed
toward each other at a closing rate of 6 Gs from extreme range.  (I don't have
my books so don't ask what that is)

By the time the ships had gotten in range, They were both HEAVILY damaged.
When they passed each other they got in one blast of meson fire.  One ship
was crippled, the other missed.  The one that was missed by the meson fire
was so badly damaged by the accumulated damage that it was out of the
game anyway.

The upshot of the whole battle is that I realized that almost all space combat
is going to be had at LONG Range.  Thus Fusion and plasma guns are extremely
limited.  At LOOOONG range, it takes a long time for you to move in.
By the time you got to within say 500km you are DEAD.  Even with 20 min turns.
If you had 30 second turns, you would never get withing planetary range.
You would be dead within the first few minutes.

Also, it is an insane idea to have more than one battlewagon within a few Km
of another.  One nuclear missile will damage both.

Another reason for the 20 min turn is damage control.  The rules say that
the engineers can attempt to repair systems during combat.  Well, 20 min
seems fair for that.  If you go down to 30 second turns then you'd barely
have enough time to bring the secondary systems on line, nevermind repair
a fusion plant with a hole in it!

Also, with 30 sec turns you definitely would have to worry about battery
locations.  On the other hand, a twenty minute turn allows nearly all
the ships batteries to be brought to bear.


Now, on occasion, when ref, I have allowed shorter space combat turns.
This being when one ship had tricked the other into allowing it to get
within a hundred km.

And when a laser turret has an ROF of 60 (I think) combat kills take only a
few seconds.

Mr. Scott
"Shoot, Wildstar!"  -Leader Desslok

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2965
Date: Thu,  3 Oct 91 09:12:27 -0400
From: hayes@ll.mit.edu (tony hayes)
Subject: "Burning" Hydrogen in space and neutrinos


It is true that burning hydrogen by combining it with oxygen would not
obscure neutrinos.  It is true that burning hydrogen by fusion would.
Burning hydrogen and making water, in space, *might* be possible *if*
oxygen is present in enough quantities but it is unlikely since both the
hydrogen and the oxygen would be rapidly expanding and very quickly drop
to a density too low to sustain the reactions.  Fusing hydrogen would be
impossible, insufficient denisty to sustain the needed temps and pressures
even for deuterium fusion.  If it were possible then everytime we did a
underwater nuclear explosion, we would have ignighted the oceans and 
destroyed the world!

Just my two cents worth.

     T.L.Hayes                        |       hayes@ll.mit.edu
     MIT/Lincoln Laboratory           |           - or -
     Lexington, MA                    |  al646@cleveland.Freenet.Edu
     
     Got an AK-47 for his best friend, business the American way.
 	      -  Queensryche

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2966
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 91 14:43:54 MET
From: Martin Omander <e91mom@efd.lth.se>
Subject: Computers_Supporting_RPG





Greetings, Travellers!



	I have several times tried book-keeping RPGs with a computer.
The only time the computer was worth using was when I used my little
Casio programmable calculator for various formulas. I think a normal
sized computer only gets in the way, while a small programmable
calculator can easily be handled along with the dice, paper and pen.
Using computers for other things than record-keeping and number
crunching destroys the GM's control of the game, I think.
	One way to use a computer in play is to let it simulate the
ship's computer. If you like complex in-system navigation, why not let
the navigator player and the computer sort the course out? The GM
won't have to control the course and the navigator player really feels
like the navigator character.
	Maybe other ship systems could be simulated as well. These
could be piloting, engineering and gunnery. Care has to taken though,
so that game success isn't only a function of player dexterity and
arcade game experience.
	The computer could also have a small library program. In the
library are general facts concerning space, science, society and
different worlds plus hints, red herrings and facts about the current
adventure. This would add a new dimension to investigative type
adventures. It would also require a lot of work, but several people
could maybe coordinate their efforts?
	(I've heard that such files alreday exist. Could anyone
confirm?)


					See ya, I mean read ya!

						Martin

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2967
From: jdietz@sdcc13.UCSD.EDU (Summer's Over --)
Subject: 
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 91 8:08:42 PDT

Subject: Re: (2958) (2959) A little less obtuse (re: 2955)
> 
> MacGyver writes: 
>               The problem with the idea is market. How much more are you
> willing to pay for this software? In addtion, which computer should
> this software be intended for? IBM? Mac? Apple? NeXT? How many RPGer are
> willing to pay for this? Based on the various game companies, not enough
> to justify the effort. And for a specialized computer, that would
> push the R&D cost even higher, and market lower. From what I'm told.

        As I see it, the increase in development cost of a simulator
on multiple systems is neglegible compared with the initial
development cost if the writers use almost any high level language,
although C is probably best for this (no flames please -- it's just
that almost anything will compile single-threading K&R).  What this
implies is that if you ignore GUIs and make a text-only application
it should look the same, feel the same and in fact be the same
program when ported to Unix, Mac OS, MS-DOS, Intuition, OS/2, the
Commodore 64 or whatever you please with a minimum of effort.
        If graphics get involved it is a different story because the
different capabilities and expectations of the underlying hardware
get mixed in.  However, I was thinking in terms of a program for
which graphics wouldn't matter; one that would handle bookkeeping
and not be SSI's on-line Monster Manual. 
         I simply don't see number of platforms as a drawback -- for
what you have in mind it wouln't be.

> Paul Dale writes:
> Would a gaming house show much interest in a combined RPG/computer game?
> I suspect not, they would be able to produce the RPG and then flog the
> computer assistance off to the public as a game-aid.  Unless the computer
> was supplied with the game I cannot see it being very workable (what
> computer to support?).  If the game included enough bookkeeping to warrant
> computer assistance as standard, it would be very close to unplayable without
> the machine aid.  Personally, I like to know what the system is using to
> resolve things (lets you play the odds better :-)  A computer introduces
> a 'black box' into the works that removes this knowledge.

        Hm.  I think that it's possible to do this the way you
would prefer it.  First, it's possible to support multiple operating
systems for a program that is designed to be reuse as much code as
possible.  The programs that have problems with being ported are
those that are trying to do it all instantly -- programs written in
80x86 assembly and those for graphical interfaces.  (No wonder
they're having so much trouble with WordPerfect for Windows!)  To
reiterate, programs written in a high-level language and making few
or no assumptions about the underlying hardware would be the best.
After all, unless combat involves floating-point matrix manipulation
you shouldn't be able to tell the difference.
        Second is that certain combat systems are workable with two
people but simply unplayable with mass combat.  There is a thread on
newsgroup rec.games.design involving the benefits of simple combat
systems vs. the implausibility of them.  The more complex systems
(I'll call them duelling) seem to involve multiple related strikes
as a result of the 'real' combat initiative (where people 'press
their attack', etc.)  They may be fun to play but would really bog
down a standard game.  Enter a computer.  The computer can be
programmed to not only do the table lookups/calculations when told
to, but it could also be set up to make realistic decisions for NPCs
in such combat if the GM wishes to have it do so.
        I think that there are some small game companies out there
that would write something like that and sell it as a package.  With
RPGs currently the cost of simple computer games a game bundled with
bookkeeping software should be marketable in the high end.  If they
treat it as 'value added' instead of 'gimmick' it should do well in
the gamers' market.  And if size is a problem, the die-hard
roleplayer could pick up the HP 55LX pocket PC...
- --
Segal's Law:                                         | Jack Dietz
  A man with one watch always knows what time it is. | (jdietz@ucsd.edu)
  A man with two watches is never sure.              | Earthquake Drill

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2968
Subject: Let me introduce myself
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 91 19:02:37 JST
From: Genichi-Nishio <nishio@ss.titech.ac.jp>

Hello.
	Let me introduce myself to you.  I'm a Traveller fan in Tokyo, Japan.
My name is Genichi Nishio. Call me Gen.  The other day I heard about TML
on GEnie, and send mail to join. Now I'm very happy to see such active
discussions about Traveller here.

	In Japan, Traveller and MegaTraveller are published from Hobby Japan
Inc., translated into Japanese.  Rebellion Sourcebook of Japanese Edition was
out yesterday.  They say Knightfall will be out next year.
	I must note Traveller was the first RPG translated into Japanese.
When Traveller was out seven years ago, though very few RPGer were then,
we were facinated with the game of new type.  Now a lot of RPG are in the
Japanese market, Traveller has many fans here.

Thanks!

- -------------------------------------
Genichi Nishio
Tokyo Institute of Technology, Japan
nishio@ss.titech.ac.jp

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2969
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 91 23:23:56 EDT
From: uunet!popeet!wildstar@sequent.UUCP (Derek Wildstar)
Subject: Replies from Wildstar


THE COST OF WARSHIPS
 
]I think it will be a good idea to ask Guy Garnett (Wildstar) how someone
]is able to pay the bill for his ships. He has designed two ships:
]
]> CraftID:	PA-Gun Frigate, Type=FFP, TL=15, MCr=117,667.621.
]> CraftID:	MesonGun Frigate, Type=FF, TL=15, MCr=100,222.252
]
]Both ships have a really impressing, but I think that's too much money for
]a simple frigate. What the hell a Battleship shall cost ? I must admit,
]I had designed my first ships in a similar manner, but I have decided to
]stop the use of this designes, because of the reasons mentioned below.
 
Well, I designed those ships, so I'll respond to this one, too.  First
things first, I don't know what a battleship *SHOULD* cost, I haven't
dedesigned one yet.  For what Marc Miller thinks they should cost, I will
give a rundown from FSSI.
 
	BI-15 (Dreadnought)		  3,306,716 MCr
	BL-15	Battleship, Light	  1,246,820 MCr
	BM-15	Battleship, Missile	  9,335,821 MCr
	BH-15	Battleship, Heavy	 17,083,836 MCr
	BS-15	Battleship, Strike	  1,234,337 MCr
	CA-15	Cruiser, Armored	    124,009 MCr
	CM-15	Cruiser, Missile	    134,895 MCr
	CS-15	Cruiser, Strike 	    122,203 MCr
	CH-15	Cruiser, Heavy		    397,217 MCr
	CJ-15	Cruiser, Imperial (Rift)    119,900 MCr
	ED-15	Escort, Destroyer	      7,757 MCr
	EM-15	Escort, Missile 	      2,207 MCr
	EF-15	Escort, Fleet		      9,215 MCr
 
So there you have it.  A battleship costs over a trillion credits.  My 
frigate designs cost less than the cruisers.  Significantly less, if the
volume discounts are applied (the price I quoted was for the prototype,
and included architect's fees).  In a fight against a cruiser (just about
any of those cruisers) the frigate would probably win.  The frigate has
an advantage in DefDM (-14 vs -8 or -7 for the FSSI designs).  None of the
FSSI designs include a meson screen (looks like the meson frigate would
wipe up here), and the frigate has a 2G to 5G accelleration advantage,
which would allow the frigate to dictate the range of the combat, or break
off if necessisary.  Against a battleship, the frigates very weak secondary
armament might put it at a disadvantage (although its superior speed and
agility *MAY* offset that - which is exactly what the Domain is trying to
find out by building these things).  I'd guess that the frigate has a
slim or better chance of besting any one of the battleships.  Two frigates
could probably take out a battleship with no trouble.
 
]Can someone tell me, what's the gross national product of a system like
]Glisten is ? I have estimated an average of 10,000,000 MCr. Do you
]really think, a system is able to use 1% of its income for one ship, and
]those ship will even be a frigate, not a Battleship...
 
Now, about the GPP (gross planetary product) of Glisten.  The only rules I 
know of are in Striker, so I'll haul that out now.  For a TL-15 world,
the base per-capita GNP is Cr 22,000.  In the Imperial Encyclopedia,
Glisten (Marches/2036) is an Industrial world (x1.4) with a population
of about 8 billion (Population code of 9, multiplier of 8), for a
GPP of about MCr 246,400,000. (or in round terms, a little under 250
trillion credits).  Striker further mentions that the average system
spends 3% of its GPP on defense (but this may vary at GM's option from
a low of 1% to a max of 15%), for a Glisten defense budget of MCr 7,392,000.
The frigates look pretty affordable to me (only about 2% budget).
 
If the old (pre-MegaTraveller) Spinward Marches data are used from 
Suppliment 3, Glisten (without the population multiplier, and before
it was coded Industrial) has a GPP of MCr 22,000,000 (still about twice your
estimate), giving a defense budget of MCr 660,000.  Still affordable, but
now probably the largest ships in the Glisten fleet.
 
High Guard, Adventure 5, has rules for determining the Navy budget for
a world, based on its population and government type.  The computation is
Cr 500 times a government modifier (for Glisten, government type 8, it is
x1.10 in peace, or x1.20 in wartime), times the population.  This gives
a Navy budget of MCr 4,400,000 (using the Imperial Encyclopedia) or
MCr 550,000 with Suppliment 3.
 
]I personally (as GM !) have decided not to use any armour in ships
]greater than 2000 tons displacement. Armour is simply to expensive.
]As a navy admiral I would decide to build two ships instead of one
]with an armour. The price would be the same. Armour is only efficient if
]you have a small ship, because it decreases the number of additional
]critical hits.
]
]Any comments ?
]
]Juergen
 
I armored the frigates because they are small enough to suffer critical
hits from the largest spinal weapons; the armor is there to help mitigate
the damage (for whatever shots get through the DefDM and screens).  The
armor also helps to protect against nuclear missiles; it is still possible
to scrape weapons off of the hull, but it should protect the crew and
vital components long enough for the frigate to finish off its adversary.
Without the armor, the ships would have been much cheaper, and have a
large amount of power available for secondary weaponry.  It is a trade-off.
I would be interested in testing your armor theory in combat.
 
OTHER SUBJECTS
 
One use I can see for M-T Variant is to publish "fixed-up" Traveller rules.
Personally, I like many of the basic tenents of Traveller, but think that
the current batch of rules is a mess, and the previous batch was too
disorganized into zillions of tiny booklets (lesee now, the basic set,
Mercenary, High Guard, Merchant Prince, Scouts, and Striker ...).
 
It's late, I had better go to bed ... up again too soon tomorrow.

What about submissions for M-T Variant?  I finished reading a bunch of
bundles yesterday, and saw some other good things, including the bit on
alternate anchients, and an article on fusion reactors.

G'night

Wildstar

 .signature: syntax error in line 1, ")" unexpected.

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin), bfwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Raven Blackburn),
        anthony@cs.pitt.edu (Michael Anthony Kapolka),
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Subject: TML Bundle #243: Msgs 2970-2984
Reply-To: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Precedence: bulk
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 91 21:00:17 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com>
Status: R


TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed Oct  9 21:00:12 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #243: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2970  03-Oct-91 burt@ptltd.COM     << From: Paul Dale (Pauli) [][stuff 'mention
2971  04-Oct-91 grue@cs.uq.oz.au  Becoming quite obtuse and wayward << hi, Sorr
2972  04-Oct-91 MacGyver          Re: (2967) << Summer's Over -- writes: ......
2973  04-Oct-91 MacGyver          Re: (2966) Computers_Supporting_RPG << > The 
2974  04-Oct-91 grue@cs.uq.oz.au  Multiple Spinal Mounts << >From: burt@ptltd.C
2975  04-Oct-91 SULAIMAN@ecs.umas Wildstar's "frigates" << Well comparing ships
2976  04-Oct-91 jdietz@sdcc13.UCS Re: (2971) & (2972) Graphical Interface << Ma
2977  05-Oct-91 grue@cs.uq.oz.au  Re: (2975) Wildstar's "frigates" << hi, >I wh
2978  05-Oct-91 grue@cs.uq.oz.au  Making a bit of a fool of myself (again) << h
2979  05-Oct-91 Richard Johnson   Re: Even Less Obtuse << First, a little techn
2980  05-Oct-91 bart@cs.uoregon.e Computer-Aided Traveller << Frankly, I think 
2981  06-Oct-91 Richard Johnson   Re: Getting more obtuse again... << Paul Dale
2982  06-Oct-91 cdr@kpc.COM       Twilight Traveller << Regarding Star Viking a
2983  07-Oct-91 weitek!hemingway! Computer-Aided Traveller << I spent several m
2984  07-Oct-91 bermuda!givler@cb  << I disagree on this point. Case in point, 

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2970
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 91 15:11:45 EDT
From: burt@ptltd.COM (Burton Choinski.)

From: Paul Dale (Pauli)
[][stuff 'mentioned above' delete]
[]>If firing arcs are to be used, I presume some means of abstracting it can be done,
[]>as you mentioned above.
[]
[] Isn't that what the batteries bearing is all about?  That is what I thought
[] it ment.  The figures from High Guard are a little on the high side (50% of
[] all batteries bear at least), I don't remember the MT figures off the top
[] of my head but I am pretty sure that the table was almost the same.

But you have to remember -- the original batteries bearing is based on 16 minute
turns.  Presumably, ships can rotate on their axis to bring additional weapons
to bear.  With a smaller time scale, the batteries bearing idea would have to be 
expanded.

[]>This will SIGNIFICANTLY alter the armaments of large ships (since 2x size is
[]>not equal to 2x weapons).  Spinal mounts have their hardpoint limits checked, but
[]>only use 1 hardpoint (firing port).
[]
[] Are you suggesting that if the mount requires 50 hard points it can only be
[] placed into a ship with 50+ hardpoint and once built in it only uses one
[] phardpoint?  Seems a little silly to specify the minimum sized ship that
[] can contain the mount especially when the mount already uses a volume.
[] I also feel that it would be quite difficult to put a decent spinal mount
[] into a ship that didn't make the necessary hardpoint count --- they have this
[] annoying property of using a LOT of power and space.

Well, I suppose the hardpoint limit could be dropped.  If the ship has the
volume to handle it, it can have it.  It would still only take 2 hardpoints
(aiming lenses or whatever for minor corrections -- the target must still be
in the hexes forward).

From: Adrian Hurt
[]> Well, turrets are armored, but probably not as much as the main hull.
[]
[] Again, why not?  Since the ultimate objective is to make rules which
[] work for space vehicles as well as for air/ground vehicles, note that
[] tank turrets are often as well armoured as the hulls.

Well, in such a case, surface hits destroy targeting sensors on the turret, but
leave the turret and weaponry largely intact.  So it basically boils down to
surface hits being nothing but sensors/commo hits.

[]> Perhaps a surface hit welds the turret in one place, or (as I stated for
[]> lasers) blows away the reflective surface of a vane.
[]
[] Does such damage occur with tanks?  As for the reflective vanes, what happens
[] if I cover my ship with the same material as the vanes?  (In personal combat,
[] this is what reflec armour does.)

I presume that the material can't take a direct hit, but works at oblique angles.
Maybe it's just too expensive to use as armor.  YGIAGAM.

[]> (btw, is there any reason WHY only one spinal mount is allowed?  If the ship
[]> is large enough, could it not have 2 parrallel, or 3 triaxial mounts?
[]
[] This is something that I've wondered, too.  (And on this mailing list on a
[] few occasions.  :-)  What about catamaran designs?  Take two 30,000 ton
[] cruisers and join them together with a big lump of metal.  You now have one
[] 70,000 ton cruiser with two meson guns.  (I said it was a big lump, 10,000
[] tons!  :-)

If you take 6 meson spinal mounts and wrap them around the axis, you get the
"Gatling Gun" class. :)

From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
[] The main 'problem' with removing turret restrictions is the effect that it 
[] would have on missile and (to a lesser extent) sand turrets.  Before this 
[] can be discussed, we really need to decide how missiles work.  If missiles 
[] require guidance from the launching ship for a significant fraction of 
[] their flight, then the 'game balance' limitations on missiles should be 
[] based on the number of control channels/transmitters that the launching/ 
[] guiding ship has available.  This would make them somewhat like missiles in 
[] Star Cruiser/2300AD.  If you wanted a missile launching specialty vessel, 

This means was used because missiles were actually used like drones.  Most had
a laser that the missile could fire at the target.  Others exploded to power
a bank of lasers.  This was mostly due to the effects of stutterwarp, with ships
shifting positions in the blink of an eye.

[] hand, if missiles are 'self guided', along the lines of the missile designs 
[] that have been posted here using the Robots book, there is really no basis 
[] for limiting the number of missiles that a single ship can launch in a 
[] turn, EXCEPT for the cost of the missiles.  My players, in their space 
[] combat session two weeks ago, burned through MCr1.5 worth of missiles, 
[] which is prohibitive for many player groups (I hope.)  In a Trillion Credit 
[] Squadron setting, forcing players to purchase and transport the missiles 
[] (and sand--we should insert the sand canister prices form Old Traveller in 
[] MT) would cut down on their use a bit.  

Thi is as it should be.  If you want your ship to do a deathwind attack, launching
hundreds of missiles in a single volley, you better have a deep wallet to buy new
ones.

The sand prices should be in there anyways.


[] This was mapped out on hex paper.  Using vectored movement.  Now, we assumed
[] that missiles accelerate at 8 Gs.  This allows them to out run even a 6 g ship/.They were moved as though they were ships, and damage was inflicted on the
[] turn they intercepted the targe.

If I remember MAYDAY rules correctly, you could bought missiles with a G-rating
and an endurance.  12G was the maximum burn.  Thus a 12/3 missile could make up to
12 hexes of vector changes per turn for up to 3 turns.

[] Another reason for the 20 min turn is damage control.  The rules say that
[] the engineers can attempt to repair systems during combat.  Well, 20 min
[] seems fair for that.  If you go down to 30 second turns then you'd barely
[] have enough time to bring the secondary systems on line, nevermind repair
[] a fusion plant with a hole in it!

Well, My intentions are to simulate the feel of most SF movies. 

[] And when a laser turret has an ROF of 60 (I think) combat kills take only a
[] few seconds.

So letting it fire for 20 times as long is a better thing?

===============================================================================

Well, let us say, for the moment, that the really poor limitations (no more than
1 spinal mount, 1 hardpoint/100t) are chucked in favor of reasonable limitations
(turrets and bays limited to increasing hull volume by 40%, or something).

We now face the prospect of multitudes of laser and missile attacks being
fired from each ship.  How should a barrage of 30 lasers be handled with 
regards to "to hit" and damage?  Should it be (2d6+attack DMS) crossreferenced
with (2d6+defenseDMS) to find a %hit?  If so, how will the table be constructed?
If ATTDM=0 and DEFDM=0, what is a 7-7 result?  50% hits?  10% hits?

===============================================================================

Sandcasters.  If ever there was a boneheaded idea, this is it.  I am probably
goind to implement sand like the shields of 2300ad.  An electromagnetic field
generated by the hull traps and circulates the ablative particles.  Sand Dispensers
pump a steady stream into the field to maintain the level of protection.  Maximum
shield strength is dependant on the power of the shield generators.

The cost and power requirements of a shield system is dependant on the hull 
surface area.

===============================================================================

Just more stuff to kick around.  I'm still looking for the TDR vehicle rules
that were done way earlier in the year.

===============================================================================
Burton Choinski                                       Phoenix Technologies, LTD
"All opinions are mine, not Phoenix's"                            Cambridge, MA
===============================================================================



------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2971
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 91 15:46:04 EST
From: grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Subject: Becoming quite obtuse and wayward

hi,

Sorry about the totally unrelated subject, I'll try to control myself
more in the future!


Somewhere in a galaxy far, far away, Jack Dietz says:
>        As I see it, the increase in development cost of a simulator
>on multiple systems is neglegible compared with the initial
>development cost if the writers use almost any high level language,
>although C is probably best for this (no flames please -- it's just
>that almost anything will compile single-threading K&R).  What this
>implies is that if you ignore GUIs and make a text-only application
>...

I'll add a quick comment here since I used to program Macs for a living.
Writing a text only application isn't really good enough for machines which
are based strongly around a GUI.  Users (the people who really count) get
used to the picture interface and get very upset when they lose this.  A
text only program is very unlikely to sell for a Mac (programmer's utilities
are an exception to this, but everybody knows programmers are different).
I suspect, that the other window based systems would require more than a
bare text interface to sell.  There is a massive amount of effort required
to add windowing and menus to a text based program in an effective manner,
it is nearly always better to re-write the program pretty much from
scratch and get things right.  There have been several companies that
produced a naive conversion of an existing program and got bitten (there
are some exceptions: infocom, three-sixty.  The product they produced
was of top quality anyway).

[ Gee, my quick comments are getting longer and longer the closer my thesis
  deadline approaches. ]


>         I simply don't see number of platforms as a drawback -- for
>what you have in mind it wouln't be.

You have also got to support all these different platforms.  My ship design
program is an example of a simple, reasonably well written program.  It compiled
without problems on several versions of Unix, and on the Mac.  It died on
the Amiga (did you ever get it working richard?, are you even reading this ;-)


>        I think that there are some small game companies out there
>that would write something like that and sell it as a package.  With
>RPGs currently the cost of simple computer games a game bundled with
>bookkeeping software should be marketable in the high end.  If they
>treat it as 'value added' instead of 'gimmick' it should do well in
>the gamers' market.  And if size is a problem, the die-hard
>roleplayer could pick up the HP 55LX pocket PC...

It is a HP95 isn't it?  (assuming that you mean the IBM compatable handheld).
My personaly preference is for the HP48SX, but then I own one :-)

Is the sales quantity going to offset to software development costs?
Writing RPG-aid software is a nasty buisness (ask just about anybody who
has tried to computerise an existing part of any system), and you are
likely to require a non-trivial hardware platform to do anything useful
(which would bring it out of the gimmick classification).  All this is
going to increase the cost of the package.  I am not saying that it isn't
possible, just that I cannot see anything like this working in the near
future (unless one of us starts writing lots of code quickly ;-)  I would
be unhesitant to claim that it would be a VERY high risk venture.

Of course, you could include the die rolling computer to save having to
roll 2000d6 during large scale combat.  That rates as a useless gimmick
in my book.

Any chance of a TDR or CAT sub-group on portable computerised game assistant
packages? 
[ No really it was a sarcastic comment, ....... I really didn't mean it,
......... no please don't shoo[BANG] ....... Thud. ]





						Pauli da insane

Paul Dale               | Internet/CSnet:            grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Dept of Computer Science| Bitnet:       grue%cs.uq.oz.au@uunet.uu.net
Uni of Queensland       | JANET:           grue%cs.uq.oz.au@uk.ac.ukc
Australia, 4072         | EAN:                          grue@cs.uq.oz
                        | UUCP:           uunet!munnari!cs.uq.oz!grue
f4e6g4Qh4++             | JUNET:                     grue@cs.uq.oz.au

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2972
From: MacGyver <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: (2967)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 91 1:50:04 EDT

Summer's Over -- writes:
..........
> which graphics wouldn't matter; one that would handle bookkeeping
> and not be SSI's on-line Monster Manual. 
>          I simply don't see number of platforms as a drawback -- for
> what you have in mind it wouln't be.

	Well, if the program is a text-only thing even when it's
ported to things like Mac. I for one, wouldn't buy it. GUI is what
attracts a lot of people to Mac. And if they are gamer and use Mac
as well, it's doubtful they would buy a text-only program.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2973
From: MacGyver <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: (2966) Computers_Supporting_RPG
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 91 1:54:48 EDT

> 	The computer could also have a small library program. In the
> library are general facts concerning space, science, society and
> different worlds plus hints, red herrings and facts about the current
> adventure. This would add a new dimension to investigative type
> adventures. It would also require a lot of work, but several people
> could maybe coordinate their efforts?
> 	(I've heard that such files alreday exist. Could anyone
> confirm?)

	I have already done something like this. I used a database
program to simulate the Data Library in traveller. It's pretty
easy, it just involes some looking up. And Everytime the player 
wants to look up something. They use the computer to do so. The
computer is also tied into another one right by me. So I can change
the data at will. I've used the same program to simulate cyberspace
in cyberpunk games, that one I had less success with.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2974
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 91 16:09:08 EST
From: grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Subject: Multiple Spinal Mounts

>From: burt@ptltd.COM (Burton Choinski.)
>Subject: (2970) 

>[]> (btw, is there any reason WHY only one spinal mount is allowed?  If the ship
>[]> is large enough, could it not have 2 parrallel, or 3 triaxial mounts?
>[]
>[] This is something that I've wondered, too.  (And on this mailing list on a
>[] few occasions.  :-)  What about catamaran designs?  Take two 30,000 ton
>[] cruisers and join them together with a big lump of metal.  You now have one
>[] 70,000 ton cruiser with two meson guns.  (I said it was a big lump, 10,000
>[] tons!  :-)

>If you take 6 meson spinal mounts and wrap them around the axis, you get the
>"Gatling Gun" class. :)

Not much use in my eyes (and I am an opinionated bigot aren't I :-).
Presumably, the spinals are all firing at the same target (how often will
ships get into a nice line so you can fire at all of them at once?)
the hardest bit about killing with a smallish spinal mount is the to-hit
roll (or have I made another major error).  Generally, penetration of
meson screens isn't too hard (besides, who uses the power gobblers anyway)
and configuration doesn't do all that much either.  So all these wonderful
spinals are going to share the to-hit roll ---- I suppose you could treat them
as a more powerful spinal for penetration purposes.  Much, much more powerful.


>Thi is as it should be.  If you want your ship to do a deathwind attack, launching
>hundreds of missiles in a single volley, you better have a deep wallet to buy new
>ones.

And storage space for all of the bloody things.  They consume quite a bit of
cargo space that could be better used for 'small packages'.


>The sand prices should be in there anyways.

I agree that sand should be bought, but couldn't you use some local asteroids
and mash them up a bit???  I was under the impression that just about any
waste material is useful as 'sand'.  Perhaps, we could come up with some
different kinds of sand.  Salvaged rocks, lots of shiny metal spheres, ice,
just about anything...and you'd have lots of different protection
characteristics and prices :).


>If I remember MAYDAY rules correctly, you could bought missiles with a G-rating
>and an endurance.  12G was the maximum burn.  Thus a 12/3 missile could make up to
>12 hexes of vector changes per turn for up to 3 turns.

I thought it was 12G and fuel for 3 hexes movement of the destination counter.
It has been quite a while since I looked at mayday missile rules and both
methods have pros/cons and they are really describing the same thing.


>We now face the prospect of multitudes of laser and missile attacks being
>fired from each ship.  How should a barrage of 30 lasers be handled with 
>regards to "to hit" and damage?  Should it be (2d6+attack DMS) crossreferenced

It should be possible to figure out some method of agumenting attacks into
stronger attacks.  RebelGuard does this (or I think it does).  Basically,
the attack is made and the defences stop a percentage of the incoming thingies.
The stuff that gets through causes damage.
Another thing that would be nice would be being able to determine the
batteries during normal ship operations rather than during the design phase.
e.g. you get 100 triple lasers and can alloacte them however you want.  This
might cause some problems with fire control/gunnery crew but that's life.




        						Pauli

Paul Dale               | Internet/CSnet:            grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Dept of Computer Science| Bitnet:       grue%cs.uq.oz.au@uunet.uu.net
Uni of Queensland       | JANET:           grue%cs.uq.oz.au@uk.ac.ukc
Australia, 4072         | EAN:                          grue@cs.uq.oz
                        | UUCP:           uunet!munnari!cs.uq.oz!grue
f4e6g4Qh4++             | JUNET:                     grue@cs.uq.oz.au

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2975
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1991 14:29 -0500
From: SULAIMAN@ecs.umass.edu
Subject: Wildstar's "frigates"


Well comparing ships with Fighting ships is not really a comparison.
Most ships there are a) Impossible (by MT rules) or b) Useless and 
always c) too expensive. 

I while back I discussed the issue of cost effectiveness of line of
battle ship designs. The basic philosophy being that the bigger u
make your ship the worse it is. A spinal-T meson can easily fit in a
ship of 20kton (if u do it right). Anything over a 100,000t has to be
a tender not a warship. People have put designs here of ships less
10,000 t displacement with Meson-J with Def DM =+15 these things are
very hard to hit and can destroy any larger ship. 

No one has yet come up with a good version of how much money a planet
geneerates but aside from that the basic idea behind ship construction
(for large ships) is to bring the largest number of spinal mesons to
bear for a given price. 

A larger very expensive heavily armored ship can be taken out by a 
single meson spinal hit. There larger size means that by definition 
they have a lower def DM and are basically asking to be hit.


Meson screens are not that difficult to penetrate and rarely have I seen
an irregular config ship. In general it is not the tonnage imbalance that
matters but the spinal meson  bearing. Generally if u can bring an advantage
of 4 to 1 spinals note: they don't have to be equivalent, in fact this assumes
something like 4- spinal-J/H vs 1-spinal-T; the side with the 4-Js will
one. On the face of it that seems trivial but note that spinal J only take
10 hardpoints. They can (theoretically) be put on a 1000t ship.

Spinal -T can fit on a 20kt hull(maybe smaller - but Def DM calculations
don't change). 



anyway..... ramblings.....


Ameer

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2976
From: jdietz@sdcc13.UCSD.EDU (Summer's Over --)
Subject: Re: (2971) & (2972) Graphical Interface
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 91 21:55:12 PDT

MacGyver writes:
> 	Well, if the program is a text-only thing even when it's
> ported to things like Mac. I for one, wouldn't buy it. GUI is what
> attracts a lot of people to Mac. And if they are gamer and use Mac
> as well, it's doubtful they would buy a text-only program.
And Paul Dale writes:
>                                There have been several companies that
> produced a naive conversion of an existing program and got bitten (there
> are some exceptions: infocom, three-sixty.  The product they produced
> was of top quality anyway).

       I had thought of compatability of the interface as paramount.
With few exceptions, every gaming group meets in different places
and different times.  If you're going to sell something like this,
the referee must be able to jump into the saddle on any computer,
immediately. 
        Unless you're selling a pocket computer with the package
(probably increasing the cost by a factor of 4-10), it has to run
the same way on any system the referee is going to use.  A Mac user
has to be able to take a 1.44MB floppy, copy over the files into IBM
format and be set.  The data files have to be the same and the
interface has to be the same.  Because the lowest-common-denominator
machine these days is a ten-year-old IBM PC with a VT52 terminal on
top (i'm exaggerating for effect) it must use a keyboard interface
and ASCII graphics only.
        This may jaundice the first impression a Mac/Amiga/NeXT user
gets of the package, but as I see it if a GUI is not always
avaliable its use should be _discouraged_.  I have never seen a
program that has the same effects in any two graphical operating
systems, even when the programmers have gone to great lengths to
make the two clones.  Now, sure, the user will be used to it in a
half hour, but you've just wasted a half-hour, probably bogging down
the first combat that takes place and making everyone uneasy about
depending on your program.  Furthermore, someone who learns how to
use the program with a mouse will probably be lost without one,
while when the reverse happens the user is going to be confused.
        I think 'vi' is a good example.  It's ten years old and has an
interface that at best is a trial to learn.  Yet I use it because
it's available everywhere -- on X terminals at the school, modemming
in from my dorm room, on my PC.  I've even seen a version on the
Mac.  Now, it doesn't quite fit in in any of these graphical
environments, but it gets used because it doesn't have to be
relearned.  Anyone who knows 'vi' can be editing files in fifteen
seconds.  That is the kind of program I think would be most useful.
        Something like this that is going to be not only used on
different platforms but used by the same people at unexpected times
on different platforms has got to be as definite as possible.  I'm
afraid GUI's haven't gotten to the point where they are as
ubiquitous as text-based systems, and I'm hesitant about
recommending an enterprising young programmer to invest four times
the programming effort in order to make a program that is easier to
learn but harder to unlearn.
- --
Wyszkowski's Second Law:           | Jack Dietz (jdietz@ucsd.edu)
  Anything can be made to work if  | Computer Engineer in Training
  you fiddle with it long enough.  | Official Yahoo of a Virtual UCSD

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2977
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 91 17:18:36 EST
From: grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Subject: Re: (2975) Wildstar's "frigates"

hi,


>I while back I discussed the issue of cost effectiveness of line of
>battle ship designs. The basic philosophy being that the bigger u
>make your ship the worse it is. A spinal-T meson can easily fit in a
>ship of 20kton (if u do it right). Anything over a 100,000t has to be
>a tender not a warship. People have put designs here of ships less
>10,000 t displacement with Meson-J with Def DM =+15 these things are
>very hard to hit and can destroy any larger ship. 

I agree pretty much entirely with the above, big ships burn better than
small ones.  In a purely naval conflict I would avoid big ships and
build lots of small ships based on smaller spinal mounts (Meson-J is
a very nice choice).  If you know that the opposing fleet is based
around these small meson-J armed ships that don't have all that much in
the way of defences, you would be able to build a cheaper fleet based
around spinal PAs that could be expected to defeat the meson armed fleet.
My prefered choice for a large naval fleet would include lots of ships that
are not too big (say <10kTon), armed with both PAs and meson guns (and possibly
nuke missiles).  A good all round fleet would have a better chance in an
unknown conflict (by unknown, I mean the composition of the enemy fleet is
not known before the design of the friendly fleet is done) than a highly
specialised fleet.  [I am quite sure, that if I saw the designs and
quantities of ANY fleet, I could design a specialised fleet to destroy that
fleet!].

In a fleet where space combat isn't the only thing that has to be done (like
any fleet that is designed for real rather than TCS), larger ships do have a
place.  You need troop ships, carriers for fighters/aircraft.  You have to be
able to conduct planetary invasions (and destructions :-).  A real fleet is
going to be very multi-purpose and diverse.  The intro spiel for the game
harpoon says something like: You cannot win a war at sea, you can only lose it.
I suspect that this also holds for space conflict.


>A larger very expensive heavily armored ship can be taken out by a 
>single meson spinal hit. There larger size means that by definition 
>they have a lower def DM and are basically asking to be hit.

And any sized meson ship can be taken out by a cheaper/smaller PA based ship
(unless the meson ship is heavily armoured, then an unarmoured meson ship
will be cheaper and able to take it out).




        						Pauli

Paul Dale               | Internet/CSnet:            grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Dept of Computer Science| Bitnet:       grue%cs.uq.oz.au@uunet.uu.net
Uni of Queensland       | JANET:           grue%cs.uq.oz.au@uk.ac.ukc
Australia, 4072         | EAN:                          grue@cs.uq.oz
                        | UUCP:           uunet!munnari!cs.uq.oz!grue
f4e6g4Qh4++             | JUNET:                     grue@cs.uq.oz.au

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2978
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 91 22:46:45 EST
From: grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Subject: Making a bit of a fool of myself (again)

hi,

Very recently, I said:

>I am quite sure, that if I saw the designs and
>quantities of ANY fleet, I could design a specialised fleet to destroy that
>fleet!

I am going to have to make a slight apology here, I realise that the design
of a fleet doesn't give you decent strategy/tactics and that an inferior
fleet could win a battle given some 'luck' (or better command).

What I ment to write, was that I believe that I could design a special fleet
that would win given equally good commanders and no surprises.  Now all I hope
is that nobody tries to take me up on my claim ;-)

My method of design would be along the following lines: for each class of ship,
I would attempt to design a class that was: cheaper and capable of taking out
the enemy class at the rate of one for one.
My strategy in a battle would be along the lines of:  maintain a defensive
formation and whenever an enemy ship approached, send out its counterpart and
let them destroy each other.  I don't know if this is 'best' (it probably isn't)
and it would not be very popular with the crews of the suicide ships.  I'm
sure some kind of tailored attack plan could be devised (this area isn't my
strong point, I play strategic games relatively poorly).


Hopefully, I have removed some off the egg off of my face :-)



        						Pauli

Paul Dale               | Internet/CSnet:            grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Dept of Computer Science| Bitnet:       grue%cs.uq.oz.au@uunet.uu.net
Uni of Queensland       | JANET:           grue%cs.uq.oz.au@uk.ac.ukc
Australia, 4072         | EAN:                          grue@cs.uq.oz
                        | UUCP:           uunet!munnari!cs.uq.oz!grue
f4e6g4Qh4++             | JUNET:                     grue@cs.uq.oz.au

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2979
Subject: Re: Even Less Obtuse
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 91 22:37:04 PDT
From: Richard Johnson <richard@agora.rain.COM>

First, a little technical matter:  Paul Dale asks
:... can anybody give me an English word [for?] the included 
: the pairs of double letter in a row?  

Do you mean a ligature?  This is a typsetting term for the single 
written or typeface character that represents a doubled letter,
or single sound made from a combination of consonants (dipthong).
For instance, people ofter write "tt" and cross them together.
In classic German, there is a letter that looks like a Greek "beta"
or "ff", but is really "ss".  This might be what you mean; the the
term "ligature" invariably refers to the written character, rather 
than to the character(s) or sound(s).  Usually, we call these
"double letters".  :=)

###### Now, on with our regularly scheduled topic #######

For you Johnnie-come-latelies, we're discussing the pros and
cons of a new RPG in which a computer plays and integral part
of the game system.

Mac Liaw says he believes the regular gaming houses have 
considered this and have dicarded it because of costs, computer
uncertainties, and lack of market. (Correct me if I blew it.)

I sort of feel like this is really just an excuse for not wanting
to truly investigate the idea.  The established game houses are
in the *printing* business, not the computer business.  The market
they see, and the products with which they are familiar are books.
I don't blame them, really.  The business is very competitive;
RPGs really compete with football and movies for market, rather 
than say, other RPGs or books.  There are a lot of printers, and
not much margin, and the houses that are making a profit now
understndably don't want to jeapordize their position atop a 
small, slipperly, heap.

They might be right, too.  I keep rembering that there are only
200 or so TML'ers in the whole world.  If this is any indication
of the size of the market, a radical idea like this is doomed.


Paul Dale says that he thinks it's a good idea but that we also
need to pay attention to the down sides, things like maintaining
the data base, portability, transportability, ruggedness and
reliability, weight, etc.

:My personal preference would be tending towards a small portable computer that
:included all this kind of stuff.  Having to lug a (huge) PC around just so
:you can play the game is kind of stupid.  Then there is the problem of what
:happens when the thing breaks down (sorry guys, the session has to be cancelled
:since the bloody database is broken :-)

I concur.  In fact, it would be nice to make the computer *VERY* small 
and simple.  The gaming equivalent of (almost) the give-away 4-function
calculators.  One for each character?  The GM's of course, larger.
This way, players could care for their own characters, possessions, 
etc. and simply download at whatever campaign they get into.  The GM
computer could verify no changes since last game. :=)

This makes the game into two distinct products - one a general-purpose
gaming-aid computer/software "thing", and the other the players' rules
and character "clipboards".  By being more general purpose, the more
expensive hardware and software could find other uses.


:>Although it certainly could be [MT or TDR compatible]...
:
:What warts and all?  

OK OK - You're right; I shouldn't try  to buy off political favors
that shallowly.  If it's going to be *good* AND going to be different,
let it be *different*.

- -- 
Richard Johnson     richard@oresoft.com      richard@agora.rain.com
Pax Electronica.                                         Propogate.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2980
Subject: Computer-Aided Traveller
Date: Sat, 05 Oct 91 23:47:58 -0700
From: bart@cs.uoregon.edu

Frankly, I think everyone's missing the boat here :-).  It
would certainly be a nightmare to support software for a wide
variety of existing platforms, GUIs, etc, for CAT.  Why not
just build and sell the hardware?  For around $50-$100 retail
one can build a small plastic box with 10 or 20 buttons, an LCD
screen, a microprocessor, and 64K or so of SRAM + EEPROM!

Sounds like a lot of money?  Well, subtract what you'd charge
for the software anyway -- you're already at $10-$60 extra for
the box.  Still not convinced?  Consider the very popular FRP
game TORG(TM).  My initial estimates are that it would cost me
about $100 just to buy all the manuals I would need to play the
game reasonably.  Add another $50/yr to get the gee-whiz extras
and keep up with it.  And I don't even get a fun pushbutton
toy!  Add in the fact that everybody has to buy the manuals,
while only Referees would really need to own the box, and I
think you could market it fine...

						Bart Massey
						bart@cs.uoregon.edu

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2981
Subject: Re: Getting more obtuse again...
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 91 0:21:26 PDT
From: Richard Johnson <richard@agora.rain.COM>

Paul Dale says:

:Writing a text only application isn't really good enough for machines which
:are based strongly around a GUI.

Yup.  Of course a little thought reveals that while adhering gnerally
to the GUI of any particular host is kind of a good idea, it really
is application driven.  That is, the *best* interface for X is one 
that make using X intuitive, and also merges well with X11 or Mac
of MSWIndows or Workbench or ....  Bad nws for this idea, I guess.


:You have also got to support all these different platforms.  My ship design
:program is an example of a simple, reasonably well written program.  
:It compiled
:without problems on several versions of Unix, and on the Mac.  It died on
:the Amiga (did you ever get it working richard?, are you even reading this ;-)

I suspect more th half the problem is that *I* died trying to compile
it on the Amiga.  After the cockpit errors you and James clued me in on,
I had no trouble with it on a Sparc, and on a Sun-3.  I haven't managed
to make it compile with TC++ on a DOS box yet either.  Again, though,
that's because I'm *NOT* a programmer and a lot of the actual activity
of compiling is alien to me.

And NO, I'm not reading this.  :=)


:Is the sales quantity going to offset to software development costs?

If we do this because it's what WE want, does it need to?  Of course,
if we're the only ones playing, is THAT any fun?


:Any chance of a TDR or CAT sub-group on portable computerised game assistant
:packages? 

Should we give you more to do in the PBEM?  :=)




And.. Mac says:

:> 	The computer could also have a small library program. In the
...
:	I have already done something like this. I used a database
Now this sounds neat.  I suspect it's fairly workable.  Just because
a TL10+ library will default to hypermedia/multimedia doesn't mean
our should.  Is it largely text?  Is it readily portable?


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2982
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 91 01:50:45 PDT
From: cdr@kpc.COM (Carl Rigney)
Subject: Twilight Traveller

Regarding Star Viking and the NewCoke Traveller:

A virus would be a really silly way to cause the widespread collapse
of computing throughout the empire, on a par with the infamous Space
Opera novel that used giant switchboards with 4-armed aliens to handle
fleet communications.

But how about instead having the breakthrough to AI made, and then the
AI's decide humans are a threat and in the resulting man vs. machine
struggle all computers get a really bad reputation, not unlike Dune's
excuse for the lack of computers in a high-tech setting.  Not having
computers also makes it much harder to keep an interstellar bureacracy
running smoothly, so things will fall apart into more manageable pieces.

It also probably signals the death-knell for the huge navies, a desireable
thing in my opinion.

And lastly, if computers are banned under penalty of death then smuggling
them becomes ever so much more profitable!

- --
Carl Rigney

"Fantasy games tend to ignore physics and such, since it hardly ever
applies to PCs anyway." --Trip

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2983
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 91 08:52:37 PDT
From: weitek!hemingway!robert@Sun.COM (Robert Plamondon)
Subject: Computer-Aided Traveller

I spent several months in a misguided attempt to create a commercial RPG aid.
The project had two Achilles' heels (Achilles had problems with just one!):
data entry and special actions.

The data-entry problem was the worst. Even after assigning default actions
to everything, the "who-hits-whom" and "who-uses-what-weapon" and "how far
away is each person from each other person" problems make melee combat a
complete nightmare.  The GM spends all his time pounding away at the keyboard.

The problem works down to the fact that RPGs are verbal, and computers can't
hear very well, so somebody has to transcribe all the relevant spoken facts
into the computer.  It turns the GM into a stenographer.  No, thanks.

The special action problem wasn't as intractable, but it was a pain in the
butt.  You have to allow the GM to override ANYTHING, and stick in any
arbitrary result.  Even if the program is very flexible at this sort of thing,
the GM has to be a rocket scientist to figure out how to get it to accept
the effect he wants, without lingering side effects.

Computer-aided melee combat is a rock many people have foundered on.  You
can be next!  Good luck...and send me a message in a bottle telling me how
it turns out.

Computer-aided space combat has more potential, especially when used for
"what-if" simulations rather than actual adjudication (you can get away
with more bugs and slop in a simulation than in play).  Computer-aided
character generation is an old favorite, one that works pretty well.

	-- Robert

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2984
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 91 09:50:06 EDT
From: bermuda!givler@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.COM (Greg Givler)

I disagree on this point. Case in point, one of the gentlemen that I
work with has just gotten the package F117A for the PC. It's
requirements are: VGA with a 386 16MHz or better machine. Now if a
game producer such a MicroProse is putting that kind of restriction
on a flight simulator, I don't see a big problem with only developing
for graphical interface systems.

:        This may jaundice the first impression a Mac/Amiga/NeXT user
:gets of the package, but as I see it if a GUI is not always
:avaliable its use should be _discouraged_.  I have never seen a

I again disagree, in a game aid/system that we are discussing, you
will not need a lot of graphics. Just a point and click environment.
Porting from the Amiga to Windows is not a huge job. In fact it is
possible to write a library that allows you to use code from one to
create code to the other. I have never done any MAC programming so I
can't comment on that. I think that in a game design sense that the
game would be mostly text base. Graphics would only be needed for
mapping and combat. These sections would probably have to be ported
for each of the major platforms. But that is part of the challenge. I
would have no doubt that the game designer would first write for the
PC family and then port from there. There have been very few games
that started on say the Amiga then journeyed to other platforms, the
most recent that comes to mind is Lemmings. 

:        I think 'vi' is a good example.  It's ten years old and has an
:interface that at best is a trial to learn.  Yet I use it because
:it's available everywhere -- on X terminals at the school, modemming
:in from my dorm room, on my PC.  I've even seen a version on the
:Mac.  Now, it doesn't quite fit in in any of these graphical

Personally the only thing that I know in vi is how to get out of it.
I use an EMACS varient on the VAX here at work, from home and on my
Amiga. Well, actually I use a very powerful fully configurable
commercial package, TurboText, that allows me to use my criptic
little EMACS keystrokes. But believe me I do not want to start
VI-EMACS wars. They're worse than the Rebellion. :-)

:Wyszkowski's Second Law:           | Jack Dietz (jdietz@ucsd.edu)

Greg
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Givler                        | Q-Link: GregGivler
Analyst - Systems Evaluation Group | CompuServe: Greg Givler 76702,647
Commodore Product Assurance        | GEnie: G.Givler
215-431-9100                       | The NET: givler@cbmvax.commodore.com
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 "By the way, don't eat the figs." - Livia to Tiberius after the death of
                        Augustus - I, Claudius PBS
===============================================================================


------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed Oct 16 21:00:10 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #244: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2985  06-Oct-91 npc@soliton.physi Optimal star fleets and other stuff. << I've 
2986  06-Oct-91 George William He Simplifying starship combat << I realize that
2987  07-Oct-91 MacGyver          Re: (2981) Re: Getting more obtuse again... <
2988  07-Oct-91 James T Perkins   Re: Software for FRP's << Jack Dietz has cros
2989  07-Oct-91 za55@sdcc3.UCSD.E Computer Aided Traveller << Hello World, Well
2990  08-Oct-91 Leonard Erickson  Computer-aided Traveller << Before folks go *
2991  08-Oct-91 woodsb@ecn.purdue Re: (2985) Optimal star fleets. << In TML art
2992  08-Oct-91 Rob Miracle       Re: Computer Aided FRP << In message (2983), 
2993  08-Oct-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Re: (2986) Simplifying starship combat << Geo
2994  08-Oct-91 surman@zulu.lgs.l Ship design << A freind of mine has a few que
2995  08-Oct-91 weldon!brad@uunet (2989) Computer Aided Traveller: More Ideas <
2996  08-Oct-91 Richard Johnson   IRC Server and MT << Dan Adnerson says: : : W
2997  09-Oct-91 grue@cs.uq.oz.au  IRC << hi, Richard Johnson says: >Dan Adnerso
2998  09-Oct-91 Marc Alexandrovic 3G pistol << LGF-56 Laser Body Pistol TL15 Sm
2999  09-Oct-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Re: (2994) Ship design << > Date: Tue, 8 Oct 
3000  09-Oct-91 za55@sdcc3.UCSD.E Clarification. << Sorry about that.... Let me
3001  09-Oct-91 spg@alpha.sunques OK, A silly/stupid question << Somewhere in t
3002  10-Oct-91 SULAIMAN@ecs.umas IRC << About 2 years ago a traveller RPG grou
3004  12-Oct-91 George William He Simplified Ship Combat System << After gettin
3005  13-Oct-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Ship Combat and design << George and Rob have
3006  13-Oct-91 George William He Wet Navy stuff in Challenge 53 << I've been s

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2985
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 91 22:37:25 MST
From: npc@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (Nick Christenson, University of Arizona)
Subject: Optimal star fleets and other stuff.


I've been following the discussion on optimizing fleets and I'd
like to add my 0.02 Cr.

First, invoking Game Theory, since a fleet battle is a two person
zero sum game, the Minimax Theorem *guarentees* there is *one* 
optimal strategy (in this case fleet design) which is expected
(barring) luck to win a greater percentage of the time than any
other strategy.  Work has been done at Stanford by the EURISKO
an heuristic evolving computer algorithm, on the TCS problem!  It
seems that a fleet of relatively small ships (I don't know the
sizes) with some Meson Gun spinal mounts and some PA's is a 
better fleet than an homogenous one.  Note, that I don't believe
that EURISKO has found *the* optimal fleet for any TCS parameters
as it is unable to consider radical design changes which require
creative use of obscure rules and prescedents in the Traveller 
rules.  I think I could beat EURISKO this way in TCS (if I get
some choice in the parameters to be used) but once an heuristic
program allows from some of my ideas, it will probably beat my
fleet pretty handily.  For those of you who are interested, the
only printed reference I have for EURISKO and TCS is pp. 72+
of _Engines_of_Creation_ by K. Eric Drexler.

It is true that there is more to a space based navy than TCS
ships, but it is my feeling that the main battle line would
be designed in this way.  Also, once a major interstellar war
started, production would shift to favor these designs (along
with Troop and *SUPPLY* ships!)

Side comment on programming GM aids for Traveller:
I don't like Graphics Interfaces at all, but a majority of 
*buyers* do.  Also, I don't agree that you have to make this
thing horribly portable.  I say make a universal data processing/
storage/retrieval system that you can *add* graphics interfaces
onto for different platforms.  I don't think that *many* gamers
have problems with wanting to run the thing on a Mac some nights,
a VAX others and an HP every other major holiday.  Make a 
universal driver and then interested parties can write an ASCII,
Mac, PC, NeXT or whatever driver for it as they see fit.

Nick Christenson
npc@soliton.physics.arizona.edu

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2986
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 91 22:42:32 -0700
From: George William Herbert <gwh@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Simplifying starship combat


	I realize that this is a really nasty and evil thing to do, especially
since everyon's off on another "let's make it more realistic" bent, but I've
seen enough of the mid to large scale starship combat that IMHO it's time
to radically simplify it.
	What are people's ideas about cutting the hay out of MT starship combat?
I don't want to ignore the reality factor, and I've got some vague ideas
myself, but I'd like to hear what everyone else thinks also.

- -george william herbert
gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu
"Which wins, Playability or Reality?"
"It depends.  Did you get the combat over by three am?"

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2987
From: MacGyver <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: (2981) Re: Getting more obtuse again...
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 91 13:51:32 EDT

Richard Johnson writes:
> Now this sounds neat.  I suspect it's fairly workable.  Just because
> a TL10+ library will default to hypermedia/multimedia doesn't mean
> our should.  Is it largely text?  Is it readily portable?

	Yes, it's largely text. All you really need is a programmable
database program. I created two databases, one for incoming news,
one for Data Library. Then created a menu for the players to access.
Because it's a database, I can perform searches using one or 
many keywords, or do something like "List Entries > 111-1120."
Works quite well, the players were happy to see a computer role playing
a future computer. :)

	As for portable, well afraid. Hey, I only spent 3 hours on 
this thing, portablity was not on my mind. (grin)

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2988
Subject: Re: Software for FRP's
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 91 13:05:22 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR>


Jack Dietz has crossposted some of the FRP/Software depate to
rec.games.design to get additional commentary.  Those of you with news
access may wish to troll for additional commentary there.  As far as
dicsussion of the topic here on the TML is concerned, it is fine with
the TML Administrator!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Traveller Mailing List Administrator	     James T Perkins @ Tektronix, Inc
traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com	     Beaverton, Oregon, USA
    "How many ancients can dance on the head of a pin?" - Scott Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2989
From: za55@sdcc3.UCSD.EDU
Subject: Computer Aided Traveller
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 91 16:42:01 PDT

	Hello World,

	Well, this is my very first post to this list, but I've been
reading for a long while...  I hope my contribution is worth
something.  :)

	It seems to me that a modified IRC server would do nicely as
a Traveller's Aid.  Program in certain commands to bring up task
libraries, and even resolve the tasks, etc, etc.  This would only be
effective for role-playing on IRC, tho.  But that, in itself would
have advantages...  First, people no longer have the "I said that,
not my character!" syndrome.  The idea would also allow people from
all over the world to play in a campaign, instead of just a few
friends that have never played traveller before.  There are
dosadvantages as well, obviously.  For one, you wouldn't be able to
just get together with a few friends and play.  It would also be
kinda slow for the players to type in everything they say.  The
referee could speed a few things up by preparing text descriptions
of rooms, objects and the like, which he could then call up at will.

	While this has many disadvantages, another one being that
you couldn't play it on pc's that aren't hooked to the internet
somehow, the system would be virtually free, and there would be no
compatibility problems.


					Dan Andersen.
					danderse@ucsd.edu

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2990
Date: 08 Oct 91 01:45:06 EDT
From: Leonard Erickson <70465.203@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Computer-aided Traveller

Before folks go *too* overboard allow me to point out that a couple of
years ago, the OEM price of a 3x5 inch circuitboard that was
essentailly an XT *with* 8087, but no peripherals was something like
$15. This puppy was intended for use as a dedicated controller, and was
software compatible with an XT.
	With a bit of creative design, you could design a game machine
of some sort around this, and sell it *cheap*. I and a couple of
friends are semi-seriously thinking about seeing how cheap we could
assemble a ready to go BBS from this sort of board (Intel, or the AMPro
equivalents). The results are rather surprising even if you just use
*standard* components! 
	Also, the GUI/text-based argument has a similar flaw. A true
GUI is nice, but most people will be just as happy if the application
is text based and merely used *windowing* effectively. This can be made
portable *much* more easily!



------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2991
From: woodsb@ecn.purdue.edu (Brent L. Woods)
Subject: Re: (2985) Optimal star fleets.
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 91 2:33:30 EST


 In TML article 2985, npc@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (Nick Christenson)
 writes:
 >Work has been done at Stanford by the EURISKO an heuristic evolving
 >computer algorithm, on the TCS problem!  It seems that a fleet of
 >relatively small ships (I don't know the sizes) with some Meson Gun
 >spinal mounts and some PA's is a better fleet than an homogenous one.

     Now, this strikes a chord in my memory.  Unfortunately, my memory
is somewhat less than perfectly reliable.  You Have Been Warned.  ;-)

     The whole thing happened a few years ago (I'm not quite sure how
long, but it wasn't recent), when there were TCS tournaments at some
large gaming con (GenCon?  Origins?  Something like that).  Anyway, some
people put some *serious* computing resources into devising optimal
fleets (as well as combat strategy, if I remember correctly--*that* must
have been fun to program).

     If the fleet in question is what I'm thinking it was, its
composition isn't immediately obvious (at least to me).  The fleet
consisted of lots of medium sized (say, 50 kton) *planetoid* ships
(don't know if they were buffered or not--hardly matters, I suppose)
armed with Meson spinal mounts (at least *that* part I had already
figured out).  I don't remember what secondary armament (if any) the
fleet had, but that's probably more flexible.

     I remember trying that fleet composition out (I used to play quite
a bit of BCS and TCS with some ROTC friends) and finding that it worked
fairly well.

     In any case, the story ends with the end of TCS tournaments, since
the optimizers kept winning (rules changes didn't help, since they just
ran a new simulation).

 >Note, that I don't believe that EURISKO has found *the* optimal fleet
 >for any TCS parameters as it is unable to consider radical design
 >changes which require creative use of obscure rules and prescedents in
 >the Traveller rules.  I think I could beat EURISKO this way in TCS (if
 >I get some choice in the parameters to be used) but once an heuristic
 >program allows from some of my ideas, it will probably beat my fleet
 >pretty handily.

     Bear in mind that, while the fleet composition (and, perhaps, the
combat strategy) were mostly determined through computer simulation,
there was an actual live human who fought the fleets in the tournaments.
Things would probably come down to the old saying attributed to Manfred
Von Richtofen (paraphrased):  "It isn't the quality of the crate, it's
the pilot flying it."


- --
     Brent Woods

INTERNET:  woodsb@gn.ecn.purdue.edu
USNAIL:  4419 Myrtle Grove Dr.  /  Indianapolis, IN  46236
PHONE:  +1 (317) 895-8690 (voice)


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2992
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1991 10:05 EDT
From: Rob Miracle <RWMIRA01%ULKYVX.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Computer Aided FRP

In message (2983), Robert Plamondon writes:

>I spent several months in a misguided attempt to create a commercial RPG aid.
>The project had two Achilles' heels (Achilles had problems with just one!):
>data entry and special actions.

>The data-entry problem was the worst. Even after assigning default actions
>to everything, the "who-hits-whom" and "who-uses-what-weapon" and "how far
>away is each person from each other person" problems make melee combat a
>complete nightmare.  The GM spends all his time pounding away at the keyboard.

Our AD&D group from the early 80's used a TRS-80 to do this.  It provided the
basic DICE rolling, expericence caluclations, tracking the health of the
monsters, including regineration.  Later versions even handled combat rolls of
the monsters attacking the party.  Combat was rather simple though.  The
interface was easy to use.  For instance to attack critters 9-30, 49, 51 for 25
points of damage was a simple:  A9-30,49,51<ret>25<ret>.

There was significant data entry up front to enter the critters, but once the
database was built, it was quick from there.  I have implemented similar
functionallity in PC versions without the database.  When I want a dozen trolls
I hit the add a monster button and enter 6d8+6 for the hitdice and the program
creates the monsters for me.  The amount of time has never been significant.

One the subject of Computer Aids, I would like to share a few things that I
have done with some success.  One of the first things I toyed with was the use
of a Lap Top player aid.  This program rolled the dice for you and had a key
press that would pop up a text editor with your character information or
whatever in it.  This worked well, but I don't own a laptop so I couldn't use
it outside of the limited testing.

I have been working on a Traveller specific game aid.  It is graphical VGA only
and written in TurboPascal (to kill portability in a hurry).  It takes sector
data (from the Archives and GEnie) and displays a Map of the area 4 parsecs
around your current location.  It draws the little hexes and bases just like
the GDW maps.  The three main differences are, color coding of the planets.  I
use a yellow/brown for a desert world, a red for a bad-air world, green for a
mostly land mass world and blue for a mostly water world.  There are no
trade/x-boat routs, and the map is not static, but your system stays in the
middle of the screen.

Once you choose a new world to go to, it calucates cargo and passangers and
displays library data about that system.  It can take the UWP and expand it as
well as load a text file per hex to display.  I would like for it to generate
encounters as well.  The cargo system needs fixed, but that is a GDW problem
and not my software.  One of these years, when I get a traveller group here in
Louisville, and I get the time to finish the development, I expect that this
will be a nice program.  It has the potential to aid the GM, act as a library
comptuer for the players or run as a stand-alone game.

The real drawback to CARPs (Did I just create a nifty new acronym?) is the
portability of the hardware.  I don't know of any one with a 10 seat computer
lab with a multi-user computer at home for this (When I win the lottery . . .)
so interactive games, like those that would use an IRC are out.  Secondly, we
tend to vary the location of where we play from week to week so lugging a big
AT case around isn't practical either.  It is hard to justify $2500 for a
laptop just to game with.  Once these problems are solved, then CARPs can
become useful tools.

Just my 0.02 credits worth
Rob Miracle

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2993
Date:     Tue, 8 Oct 91 14:06:08 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re: (2986) Simplifying starship combat


George William Herbert <gwh@ocf.Berkeley.EDU> writes:

>     What are people's ideas about cutting the hay out of MT starship combat?

Oh, I wouldn't mind if it got more abstract, which is not necessarily at odds
with more realistic.  What I'd like to see in it is:

Easy to resolve
Player/Character input and actions have an effect
Produces a wide range of results (beyond Fuel-1, Wpn-1, Maneuver-1)

If this means that it only works well for ships below, oh, 1000 tons, I'd
think that was not a real problem.  Players shouldn't be involved in fleet
actions anyway, and a High Guard type system will do for settling the results
of those, _offstage_.

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2994
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 91 13:09:43 CDT
From: surman@zulu.lgs.lsu.edu (Michael A. Surman)
Subject: Ship design

A freind of mine has a few questions/observations to pose to
the TML. Since he only has access through me he can be
reached at this address.

- --------------------

I am new to the TML and to MegaTraveller, although I have been 
playing the original Traveller system since it was first published.

I have a question concerning the starship design rules.  Do special 
control panel add-ons benefit from the computer CP Multiplier?  
If so, then why do all the ship designs included with the system 
use so many control panel units?

For example, the Type S Scout/Courier has 181 control panel units; 
on a ship that can be run by ONE PERSON!  Since the ship also 
has a holographic heads-up display (Which, if it gets the  
multiplier, provides 3000 CPs.) why does it need so many control 
panel units?  The Referee's Manual is not clear on this, can 
someone clarify this for me?

One other thing.  The Encyclopedia lists the Type S as having an 
emission level of faint.  From what I see in the tables the emission 
level should be moderate.  The power plant is less than 1000Mw
(emission level of faint), the ship is less than 1000 tons 
displacement(+1 level to moderate), and no EMM is listed leaving 
a level of moderate.  Is this just a typo, or am I missing 
something?  

Lee Eilers
===============================	
Don't try to have the last word.
You might get it.
		Lazarus Long

- --------------------


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2995
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 91 11:59:35 PDT
From: weldon!brad@uunet.UU.NET (Brad Post)
Subject: (2989) Computer Aided Traveller: More Ideas



If you were going to do anything with a computer to help traveller, the only 
thing I used it for, was a great deal of simple stuff.  For instance, the 
computer would tell me what cargos were available, taking some random NPC's as
the owners, this way I have them on the screen.  The computer using the 
cargo tables, just then randomly picked a NPC I had pre-generated and entered
as a file.  Also, the computer used to help in generating ships that might be
around as you enter a system.

You can surmise from all this I used the computer while I was playing with the
old rules, but I bet you can make this all happen with the new ones as well.
I also had the computer be the terminal in any spaceport, simply the players
would call up a bunch of selections and fumble around trying to find info.  I
could write up this type of interface in BASIC, since that's all I had, in a
hour and everyone had fun!

As a GM I believe that you have to have all the help you can get, but you should
not ask the computer to try and do it all.  That's the problem I found with 
trying to write computer aides for such games like AD&D, Top Secret, BattleTech
and others.  I found it much more simple to make the computer do things that
I really want done, and are suited to it's task:  randomization, and being a 
computer to play with!

If anyone is interested I could try and find the old stuff or if anyone wants
to we could write a program to do what I explained above for the new rules.
I could be fun and useful, and we could do it in almost any programming
language.

Brad Post
uunet.uu.net\!weldon\!brad

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2996
Subject: IRC Server and MT
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 91 7:15:25 PDT
From: Richard Johnson <richard@agora.rain.COM>


Dan Adnerson says:
:
:	Well, this is my very first post to this list, but I've been
:reading for a long while...  I hope my contribution is worth
:something.  :)
:
:	It seems to me that a modified IRC server would do nicely as
:a Traveller's Aid.  Program in certain commands to bring up task

Pardon my naivete.  What's an IRC server?


:The idea would also allow people from
:all over the world to play in a campaign, instead of just a few
:friends that have never played traveller before.  There are
:disadvantages as well, obviously.  

You *ARE* new.  :=)  The PBEM does this quite well, too.  AND..
yes, there are disadvantages.  But the building of the global
village that happens makes it worthwhile to me.

:
:	While this has many disadvantages, another one being that
:you couldn't play it on pc's that aren't hooked to the internet
:somehow, the system would be virtually free, and there would be no
:compatibility problems.

Please elaborate.  This sounds strangely like what I was going to
posit as "idea number 2" after the furor from the first died down.

Are you saying, "set up a global BBS-like system, strictly for
role playing"?

- -- 
Richard Johnson     richard@oresoft.com      richard@agora.rain.com
Pax Electronica.                                         Propogate.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2997
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 91 15:22:42 EST
From: grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Subject: IRC

hi,

Richard Johnson says:
>Dan Adnerson says:
>:	It seems to me that a modified IRC server would do nicely as
>:a Traveller's Aid.  Program in certain commands to bring up task

>Pardon my naivete.  What's an IRC server?

IRC is this program that lets multiple users talk to each other.
It provides a reasonably nice forum for discussion, and essential
things like private message are available.  It is interactive in the
sence, that if I type something everyone else sees it almost immediately
(allow a couple of seconds transmission delay).  This fast response could
become a nightmare for the poor ref (imagine a gaming sesson with 20+
people none of whom can see how pissed off you are getting about the
wasted noise being produced).

I'd probably better add that I don't use IRC very often (like hardly ever).


>Please elaborate.  This sounds strangely like what I was going to
>posit as "idea number 2" after the furor from the first died down.

>Are you saying, "set up a global BBS-like system, strictly for
>role playing"?

I think that is what was ment.  It isn't really a BBS, but you could
create a traveller game group and have heaps of fun.  I seem to
remember hearing about an IRC RPG before but I cannot be sure.  There
would be some major problems trying to go global --- people tend to not
keep the same hours of waking.  e.g. Here we are 15-17 hours ahead of the USA
and Europe is about 10 hours behind us.  Getting a global group of people
together at the same time would be a horrible experience.



        						Pauli

Paul Dale               | Internet/CSnet:            grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Dept of Computer Science| Bitnet:       grue%cs.uq.oz.au@uunet.uu.net
Uni of Queensland       | JANET:           grue%cs.uq.oz.au@uk.ac.ukc
Australia, 4072         | EAN:                          grue@cs.uq.oz
                        | UUCP:           uunet!munnari!cs.uq.oz!grue
f4e6g4Qh4++             | JUNET:                     grue@cs.uq.oz.au

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2998
From: Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 91 02:25:03 PDT
Subject: 3G pistol



                       LGF-56 Laser Body Pistol TL15
 
Small laser pistol, designed for shipboard and covert duties. The tiny
pistol fits into the palm of the shotter, leaving only a small portion of
the barrel protruding beyond clenched fingers. First purchased and used by
INI in the Spinward Marches, the LGF-56 has been placed on the restricted
list in 1-1116. Seven hundred and thirty two examples have been sold prior
to the Limiting Act SM/CL/W/1/1116/5 into private hands. Clips for the
LGF-56 are not available on the private market.
 
Manufacturer: Galvaniir, LSC (Glisten, Glisten/Spinward Marches)
  Introduced: 125-1114
      Length: 9.56cm
        Mass: 407.0g
       Price: Cr793
   Clip Mass:  15.4g
  Clip Price: Cr35.5
       Users: INI, others unknown, illegal for civilian users.
 
                       Pen/        Max     Auto   Dngr
                 Shots Attn  Dmg   Range   Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
LaserBodyPistol   20    2/3   2  Long(0.5)         -     L      2

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2999
Date:     Wed, 9 Oct 91 9:11:08 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  (2994) Ship design

> Date: Tue, 8 Oct 91 13:09:43 CDT
> From: surman@zulu.lgs.lsu.edu (Michael A. Surman)
> Subject: (2994) Ship design
> 
> I have a question concerning the starship design rules.  Do special 
> control panel add-ons benefit from the computer CP Multiplier?  
> If so, then why do all the ship designs included with the system 
> use so many control panel units?

Yes.  As to the second half of that question, I am forced to say that I don't
know, and I haven't got my books so I can't look it up.  It's generally agreed
here, though, that one add-on per relevant crew member should be the maximum
allowed (you can only stick your head in one HUD display at a time, so more are
wasted), which means that controls are installed by :

1.  Picking the computer, which allows you to calculate crew requirement
2.  Installing enough HUDs and so forth for the crew
3.  Filling in left over CP requirments with control panels.

> For example, the Type S Scout/Courier has 181 control panel units; 
> on a ship that can be run by ONE PERSON!  Since the ship also 
> has a holographic heads-up display (Which, if it gets the  
> multiplier, provides 3000 CPs.) why does it need so many control 
> panel units?  The Referee's Manual is not clear on this, can 
> someone clarify this for me?

As I understand it, a control panel is really no such thing--think of each 
dial and switch in an airliner's cockpit as being a 'control panel unit.'

As to the Scout/Courier, a 32MCr ship (for example) at TL15 needs 4800cps,
so the single HoloHUD unit with the multiplier of 15 for a 1bis computer
only provides 5/8 of the requirement, leaving the rest to be filled by
those 181 control panel units (@181*1.5*15= 4000cp---but my cost was an off
the cuff estimate.)

> One other thing.  The Encyclopedia lists the Type S as having an 
> emission level of faint.  From what I see in the tables the emission 
> level should be moderate.  The power plant is less than 1000Mw
> (emission level of faint), the ship is less than 1000 tons 
> displacement(+1 level to moderate), and no EMM is listed leaving 
> a level of moderate.  Is this just a typo, or am I missing 
> something?  

You missed something.  (Sorry!)  Less than 1000MW is faint, but you must
be under 20 tons to suffer an increase in emission level due to size.  A
100ton ship with less than 1000MW is faint.

> Lee Eilers


Hope this is of some help to you...


Rob Dean


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3000
From: za55@sdcc3.UCSD.EDU
Subject: Clarification.
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 91 13:54:42 PDT

	Sorry about that....

	Let me clarify what I was talking about.  First, IRC stands
for Internet-Relay-Chat (Or something like that).  It is basically an
international "talk."  It allows people to type messages to other
people, who are also in IRC, in real time.  It is not a EMail type
setup.  What you type, is what other people see.  On IRC, there are
"channels" that people can tune to...each with a different topic.
One could just make a channel called "Traveller" and go from there.
You can also make the channel private, so that only people you
invite can tune into that channel.
	Now, most people use a client program to connect to IRC.  If
one were to modify the client of the referee for certain database,
and other miscellaneous functions, it would greatly speed up the
game.  Also, you can setup a kind of server, that, when it heres a
few keywords, will "say" something in response.  I've heard of dice
servers where a player can say "ROLL d4" and the server will
respond with, say, "d4 RESULT: 3."  It would be a simple matter to
modify these for a task system.  The complexity of the system would
only be limited to how much programming people wanted to do.
	This, obviously, has many disadvantages.  Only people with
access to IRC...which can usually be reached by "telnet"... can
play.  It is slow, not in terms of PBEM "slow", but in that one can
speak only as fast as one types.  Obviously, everyone has to be on
at the same time, which presents time zone problems.  On the whole,
tho, I think it would be fun for at least a few individuals out
there.

					Dan Andersen.
					danderse@ucsd.edu

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3001
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1991 02:30:45 -0700 (MST)
From: spg@alpha.sunquest.COM
Subject: OK, A silly/stupid question

Somewhere in the MT books is a set of rules for using Sqadrons of fighters.
(The exact reference escapes me, but I know it's there)  As I interpret the
rules, one is allowed to group x number of "fighters" together, lumping their
offensive systems as a battery for attack purposes.

first question: Is the entire squadron affected as a unit when in "defensive
mode?"  i.e. How _is_ damag distributed between the various components of the
squadron?

second question: What about larger individual units?  What would the attack
factors of a "squadron" of 10KT Meson-toting destroyers be?

a comment: A _very_ similar rule-system was implimented in _White Dwarf_
some years ago, to which system should deference be given?

An opinion: Depending on one's exploitation of the rules, squadrons of fighters
_seem_ like a relativeley cost-effective way of bringing a lot of weapons to 
bear.  Maybe I'm mis-interpreting the rules, but 20*5 ton fighters with a 
missile "turret" each sure seems to beat the pants off of any 100 ton ship, in
this regard...  _Especially_ if they can be grouped into batteries/squadrons.

Steve (SPG6) spg@alpha.sunquest.com

P.S. This is my first posting, (other than my intro, some months back) but I
really would like to know what others know/feel/think on theses subjects.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3002
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1991 12:51 -0500
From: SULAIMAN@ecs.umass.edu
Subject: IRC

About 2 years ago a traveller RPG group was attempted on IRC.
It had about 6 people in various parts of the US. They held 2-3
sessions and the whole think collapsed primarily because of differing
class schedules and the different time zones.

Ameer

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3004
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 91 22:51:37 -0700
From: George William Herbert <gwh@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Simplified Ship Combat System


	After getting (some 8) comments about the concept, the Simplified
Starship Combat System is in pre-alpha edit and reality checking.  So far,
it's coming together quite well.
	I've introduced a few new concepts to help manage things... the first
is that I'm rating some things (mostly performance and damage absorbtion
capability) on an exponential rather than linear scale.  (The amount of
damage done was always sort of nonlinear, and this preserves the effects
of the old system while reducing numbers to _very_ manageable levels in
a consistent-across-scale system.).  Damage is still done linearly, though;
a battleship may have twice the 'damage points' in some system as
a escort, but each of those points both means a lot more systems backing
it up _and_ is harder to damage (I subtract size from what amounts to
battery factor to determine number of damage rolls, so big ships are
harder to ding).
	I am including a scale table so nobody has to remember the log
factors or other similar evil mathematics. 8-)

	The other innovation is something that I proudly declare WILL 
replace most of the command-control-sensor-etc rules: Control points.
Basically, use the crew size on the same log scale to determine how
many 'things' the ship is allowed to do in one turn.  It amounts to
about 15 things for a battleship, perhaps half that for escort sized
ships, etc.  I feel this a wonderful improvement, as it cuts out about
10-20 skill checks per combatant vessel per round in heavy combat 8)

	I know this is a teaser.  Real Soon Now (tomorrow night target
release) I'll be happy enough to release the first version for reality
checking and comparasons.  It looks to be mildly big (warning to those
who want warnings of incoming Large articles...) in the 2500+ words
range.

- -george william herbert
gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu  georgewh@lurnix.lurnix.com

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3005
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1991 16:07 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Ship Combat and design

George and Rob have been discussing how to make ship/ship combat
easier.

I'm all in favor of it.  MegaTrav Combat just takes too damn long.
The whole pace of it is far too slow.  (maybe 20 minutes per turn
is realistic at the rate it gets played:-)

In the combat scenes I have played, I use High Guard.  The charts are
laid out simply and you don't spend hours looking through reams of
pages looking for the die modifier for a factor four sandcaster!

The High Guard system unfortunately does not allow for character
interactions.  Ship Tactics is used, Fleet tactics rarely, and
you only get a paltry bonus for Pilot-3 and Pilot-5.
Gunnery skill is never used at all.  (Stupid?  you bet!)

In combat, the Pilot never has to make a roll of the dice.  (Dumb)
In defending, a sandcaster or laser gunner doesn't roll the dice.  (Dumb)

Small idea:

Defender and attacker roll simultaneously.  Higher roll wins.
There would have to be modifiers due to skills, computer models, agility,
weapons used and power thereof.  (Yeah, you'd need tables of modifiers,
but it would be more exciting anyway {Which is the whole purpose behind
combat simulation anyway})  Also, If we could establish a rule for making
sence out of the modifiers it would be a lot quicker)

(divide weapon factor by 2 for modifier bonus?)

Please note this is off the top of my head, so don't hold me to these figures,
just think of the concepts.

Another problem with combat is the Damage charts.  We could use some more
colorful results than (-1 fuel, or -1 power{which doesn't mean anything
any more}).  I'd like to see a fleshed out damage table.  Say one with
hull breach on it (explosive decompression for the foolish enough not to
depressurize the hull before going into combat)  What about Fuel breach
inboard?  (liquid hydrogen gets dumped INside the ship)  Cargo hold hit?
Living quarters hit?  Small craft bay hit?  No they aren't deadly, but
they add flavor to the combat.

'Hey Mark Venture, your stateroom was wiped out by that last salvo, so much
for your Queen Starsha blow up doll.'

Now, who cares if these results aren't important for fleet combat.
As Rob suggested, if these results are only for small ships run by characters
(5000 tons at the VERY outside) They will do JUST FINE for nearly all purposes
of combat with player characters.

I am inclined to think that Ship combat as put out in MegaTrav, needs a
flow chart.  If we had a chart that said,
1.	Sensor tasks
2.	Firing tasks
3.	Evasive tasks
4.	Defensive/Penetration tasks
5.	Damage tasks
6.	Damage Control Tasks
etc. etc.
with maybe just a few basic modifiers, this could work better.
But as of now, It is just too long to read through, and the material
does not lend itself to easy understanding which can lead to shortcuts.

On design:  Here is a question:  Can one crew member only use one HUD?
It seems to me in the pictures I've seen of HUD's in modern combat aircraft,
that the actual HUD is very small, covering only a small portion of the
pilots vision.  Suppose, that when 2 HUDs are listed, it simply means, that
this HUD installation is twice the size of a standard HUD?

Watercraft designs:  Well, GDW it seems finally got around to doing it.
Pity it isn't as detailed as George's version, but It seems like it'll do.
(HEy!
 Now we can build aluminum and titanium vehicles!  YEAH!)

A personal note on the subject.  Maybe I'm getting paranoid or something,
I never really expected to see anything out of the designs I have posted here.
But, It seems to me that the story that GDW put as a note to the Watercraft
design article reminds me a great deal of the design I put out for the
Herbert Dean class Meson Submarine.  Ok, so they didn't have a meson gun
aboard the sub, but it would have been a MUCH better design if they had.
The laser's they talk about in the story are a STUPID design.  (Sure, put
a triple beam turret on a bouy!)

It would make more sence to put in a small meson bay(or indeed a large one)

I realize that if they did steal something, it was probably more from
George, but I think my design inspired them a bit(conceited aren't I?)

Plus in the story the Imperial Admiral seemed to have forgotten the planet's
possible deep site meson guns!

Ahh well, enough rambling, misspelling and grumbling from me...

Scott Kellogg
{Roll The R!}

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3006
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 91 21:41:36 -0700
From: George William Herbert <gwh@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Wet Navy stuff in Challenge 53


	I've been sitting on an analysis of it for a couple of days now...
I have to say, McInnes has redeemed himself for COACC now.  This is actually
reasonable.

	It isn't the way I would (or was 8) do it, but it seems workable.

	I am in the process of doing some displacement-based propulsive
power checks.  The two I've done so far seem viable.

	A couple of nits; no combat rules yet (ok, next issue...), and there
was nothing about sub hull strength.  Also, the armour system is a kluge
(shades of the most _fun_ parts of Striker, mixed with MT...).  It seems
to be viable, though.
	Who knows?  I'm sending them a letter poking them about that, but
it (assuming the holes are filled in the next two parts) seems workable.

- -george william herbert
gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin), bfwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Raven Blackburn),
        anthony@cs.pitt.edu (Michael Anthony Kapolka),
        mcknight@f104.n170.z1.fidonet.org (Chuck McKnight),
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Subject: TML Bundle #245: Msgs 3006-3015
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Precedence: bulk
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 91 21:00:12 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com>
Status: R


TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun Oct 20 21:00:08 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #245: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
3007  14-Oct-91 Marc Alexandrovic 3G Laser Weapon Design << /* * * 3G-02 Laser 
3008  14-Oct-91 Netherwood P J    CARPS << Hi I've been using a Toshiba Laptop 
3009  14-Oct-91 TML Administrator Re: (3005) Ship Combat and design << KELLOGG@
3010  14-Oct-91 clh@bacchus.acpub Spinward Marches Campaign wanted << Hello all
3011  14-Oct-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Re: RE: RE: Ship combat and design << James w
3012  15-Oct-91 burt@ptltd.COM     << Scott Kellogg notes: [] The High Guard sy
3013  16-Oct-91 surman@zulu.lgs.l A View of Ship Combat << I sent this a couple
3014  16-Oct-91 Jo Jaquinta       Computer Aided Role Playing << I've only been
3015  16-Oct-91 uunet!popeet!wild A Massive Missive from Wildstar << A MASSIVE 
3016  16-Oct-91 clh@bacchus.acpub WANTED: The Traveller Adventure << When I ask

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3007
From: Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 91 03:50:03 PDT
Subject: 3G Laser Weapon Design

/*
 *
 * 3G-02 Laser Gun Design Aid v0.01a (Quick Hack #1)
 * (c) 1991 TinCan SiftWare/Marc A. Volovic
 *
 * Warranty: This programme is guaranteed to take up disk space.
 *           If it does things to your life/computer/pet/spouse -
 *           Life Is A Bitch And Then She Bites You And Then You Die.
 *
 * Version 0.01a is hereby announced as FreeWare.
 *
 * This is being written in a tearing hurry - NO ERROR CHECKING IS
 * PERFORMED BY THE PROGRAMME. It will gladly produce 0j guns or
 * superconductor loops with negative weight. Take notice!
 *
 * There are no modifications for weapon kind (i.e. pistol or rifle)
 * or cost options (weight decrease/increase for cost changes).
 *
 * Projected changes and additions:
 *
 *   1. IMPORTANT: Code modularization in preparation for (2).
 *   2. Particle Beam Design Section
 *   3. Implement proper rounding functions.
 *
 *   Note: Prerequisite to Sections 3 through 6: Find out volume of a given
 *         round on a diameter/ratio via formula.
 *
 *   4. Gauss Design Section
 *   5. Conventional Round Design Section
 *   6. Conventional Weapon Design Section
 *   7. Rocket/Missile Section
 *
 *
 * In order to maintain consistency I have used the following terms:
 *
 * Beam Energy - actual energy for damage calculation purposes
 * Input Energy - energy required by the lasing tube to produce a beam
 * Storage Energy - energy required to replenish one unit of input energy
 *		    (at the moment - unused)
 *
 */
 
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <string.h>
#include <stdio.h>
#include <math.h>
#include "dtypes.h"
 
#define INTERNAL 1
#define EXTERNAL 2
#define PI 3.1415927
 
int	RANGE_CLASS[8] = { 0, 10, 20, 40, 80, 150, 300, 600 };
int	WEIGHT_CLASS[3] = {500, 4000, 32000 };
dword	INIT_CLASS[8] = {500, 1000, 3000, 10000, 20000, 40000, 80000,
	    160000};
char	*WEIGHT_TYPE[] = { "VS", "S", "M", "L" };
 
char *cvtfs(double val, int len)
{
	int	size, decp, sign;
	static char	ret[BUFSIZ];
	char	*cp;
	char	*ap;
	int	c1;
 
	size = len;
 
	/* Initial Translate */
	cp = ecvt(val, size, &decp, &sign);
 
	ap = ret;
 
	if (sign)
		*ap++ = '-';
 
	for (c1 = decp; c1--;)
		*ap++ = *cp++;
 
	if (len > decp) {
		*ap++ = '.';
		for (c1 = len - decp; c1--;)
			*ap++ = *cp++;
	}
 
	*ap = '\0';
 
	return(ret);
}
 
main()
{
	dword	b_energy;		/* Beam Energy			*/
	dword	i_energy;		/* Input Energy			*/
	dword	s_energy;		/* Storage Energy		*/
 
	int	init;			/* Initiative			*/
 
	byte	action;			/* Action			*/
	byte	ins[2];			/* Input			*/
	byte	tl;			/* Tech Level			*/
	byte	clip;			/* Internal/External Clip	*/
	byte	clip_type;		/* Clip Type			*/
	byte	fold_factor;		/* Tube Factor Folding		*/
	byte	aim_rc;			/* Aim Range Class		*/
	byte	damage_rc;		/* Damage Range Class		*/
	byte	location;		/* Number Of Locations		*/
	byte	divisor = 7;		/* BP divisor			*/
 
	word	c_shots;		/* Shots/Clip			*/
 
	double	dv;			/* Damage Value			*/
	double	c_weight;		/* Weight Of Clip		*/
	double	total;			/* Total Weight			*/
	double	s_weight;		/* Storage Weight		*/
	double	accessory;		/* Accessory Weight		*/
	double	diameter;		/* Beam Diameter		*/
	double	eff;			/* Conversion Efficiency	*/
	double	weight;			/* Weapon Weight		*/
	double	length;			/* Weapon Length		*/
	double	tube_length;		/* Lasing Tube Length		*/
	double	av;			/* Armour Value			*/
	double	bp;			/* Body Points			*/
	double	bulk;			/* Bulk				*/
	double	loc_weight;		/* Location Weight		*/
	double	ia;			/* Inherent Accuracy		*/
	double	base_cost;		/* Basic Cost			*/
	double	t1, t2, t3, t4;		/* Temporary storage		*/
 
	char	clip_str[7];		/* Clip String Display		*/
	char	act_str[12];		/* Action String Display	*/
	char	buf[BUFSIZ];		/* Display Buffer		*/
	char	bulk_str[5];		/* Bulk String Display		*/
 
 
	printf("\n3G Laser Weapon Design Aid v0.01\n");
 
	printf("TL: ");
	scanf("%u", &tl);
 
	printf("Required Beam Energy: ");
	scanf("%U", &b_energy);
 
	t1 = sqrt(pow(b_energy, 0.9)/(PI * 10000)) * 20;
	diameter = (t1 > 5) ? t1 : 5;
 
	modf(modf(diameter, &t1) * 10, &t2);
 
	switch (t2) {
		case 0 :
		case 1 :
		case 2 :
				t2 = 0;
				break;
 		case 3 :
		case 4 :
		case 5 :
		case 6 :
		case 7 :
				t2 = 5;
				break;
		case 8 :
		case 9 :
				t2 = 0;
			 	++t1;
				break;
	}
	diameter = t1 + t2 / 10;
 
	dv = sqrt((b_energy * 0.735) / (diameter / 10));
 
	eff = 1 / ((tl-7) * 0.05);
	i_energy = b_energy * eff;
	s_energy = i_energy * eff;
 
	t1 = (double)i_energy / ((tl - 7) * 0.4);
	if (tl > 12) {
		t2 = (double)i_energy / ((tl - 12) * 125);
		t3 = (double)i_energy / (((tl - 7) / 2) * (tl - 8) * 100)
		    + 100;
	}
 
	printf("Energy Storage:\n	1) Capacitors (%.2fg/shot)\n",
	   t1);
	if (tl > 12) {
		printf("	2) Superconductor loops (%.2fg/shot)\n", t2);
		printf("	3) Direct Battery Link (%.2fg/shot)\n", t3);
	}
	printf("Select: ");
	scanf("%u", &clip_type);
 
	switch (clip_type)
	{
		case 1 :
				s_weight = t1;
				break;
		case 2 :
				s_weight = t2;
				break;
		case 3 :
				s_weight = t3;
				break;
		default :
				fputs("Error!", stdout);
				exit(1);
	} /* esac */
	printf("Shots: ");
	scanf("%u", &c_shots);
 	c_weight = c_shots * s_weight;
	printf("Internal? ");
	scanf("%1s", &ins);
 
	if (!strcmp(ins, "y")) {
		clip = INTERNAL;
		c_weight *= 1.1;
	} else {
		clip = EXTERNAL;
		c_weight *= 1.2;
	}
 
	/* Temporary Weight	*/
	t1 = sqrt(b_energy) * (200 / (tl - 7));
 
	/* Temporary Length	*/
	t2 = pow((t1 / 3), 0.8) / (sqrt(diameter * .2) * PI);
 
	printf("Temporary Weight: %.3f  Temporary Length: %3f\n",
	    t1, t2);
 
	printf("Folding Factor: ");
	scanf("%u", &fold_factor);
 
	length = t2 / (fold_factor + 1);
	tube_length = t2;
	weight = t1 * (1 + fold_factor / 10);
 
	if (clip == INTERNAL)
		accessory = (weight + c_weight) * 0.2;
	else
		accessory = weight * 0.2;
 
	total = weight + accessory + c_weight;
 
	for (aim_rc = 0; aim_rc < 8; aim_rc++) {
		if (length < RANGE_CLASS[aim_rc])
		break;
	}
 
	for (damage_rc = 0; damage_rc++ < 8; )
		if (tube_length < RANGE_CLASS[damage_rc])
			break;
 
	if (modf((length / 15), &bulk))
		++bulk;
 
        loc_weight = total / bulk;
        for (t1 = 0; t1 < 4; divisor--, t1++)
		if (loc_weight < WEIGHT_CLASS[t1])
			break;
 
	strcpy(bulk_str, WEIGHT_TYPE[t1]);
	strcat(bulk_str, "/");
 
	strcpy(buf, cvtfs(bulk, 1));
	strcat(bulk_str, buf);
 
	for(t1 = 0; t1 < 9; t1++)
		if ((loc_weight * pow(bulk, 2)) < INIT_CLASS[t1])
			break;
        init = 4 - t1;
 
	total /= 1000; 			/* Translate to kg 		*/
	c_weight /= 1000;		/* Translate to kg		*/
 
	/* Assign minimum clip weight - 10g seems light enough */
        if (c_weight < 0.01)
		c_weight = 0.01;
 
	bp = (float)(20 - tl) / divisor;
	av = pow(b_energy, 0.15)*((20 - tl) / 5);
        ia = aim_rc / 2;
 
	base_cost = pow(dv, 2) / 3 + 300;
	printf("\n\nBase Cost: Cr%.1f\n", base_cost);
 
	printf("\nActions:\n  1) SA     2) AT     3) AB\n  4) SA/AT");
	printf("  5) SA/AB  6) SA/AT/AB\n");
        printf("Select: ");
	scanf("%1u", &action);
 
        switch (action) {
		case 1 : strcpy(act_str, "SA");		/* SA */
                         break;
		case 2 : strcpy(act_str, "AT");		/* AT */
			 break;
		case 3 : base_cost *= 1.5;		/* AB */
			 strcpy(act_str, "AB");
			 break;
		case 4 : base_cost *= 1.3;		/* SA/AT */
			 strcpy(act_str, "SA/AT");
			 break;
		case 5 : base_cost *= 1.5;		/* SA/AB */
			 strcpy(act_str, "SA/AB");
			 break;
		case 6 : base_cost *= 1.95;		/* SA/AT/AB */
			 strcpy(act_str, "SA/AT/AB");
			 break;
		default : printf("Error!");
			  break;
	}
 
	sprintf(clip_str, "%3u", c_shots);
	if (clip == INTERNAL)
		strcat(clip_str, "/I");
	else
		strcat(clip_str, "/E");
 
	printf("*** UNIMPLEMENTED ***");
	printf("\nOptions:\n      1) Continuous Fire\n      2) Stunner\n");
	printf("      3) Adjustable\n");
	printf("*** UNIMPLEMENTED ***");
 
 
	/* Disgusting, rewrite somehow */
	printf("\n------------------------ START ------------------------\n");
	ultoa(b_energy, buf, 10);
	printf("TL%u %sj Laser Weapon\n", tl,  buf);
	printf(" Cal  RC  DV IA In  Mass  Bulk   Cost    Clip");
	printf("  Action  ROF  C-Mass  AV BP\n");
	printf("%4.1f %1u/%1u %3.0f %+2.0f %+2d %6.2f %4s %8.1f", diameter,
	    aim_rc, damage_rc, dv, ia, init, total, bulk_str, base_cost);
	printf(" %-5s %-9s xx   %5.2f  %2.0f %2.0f", clip_str, act_str,
	    c_weight, av, bp);
	printf("\n------------------------- END -------------------------\n");
}

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3008
From: Netherwood P J <cs_s424@kingston.ac.uk>
Subject: CARPS
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 91 10:36:32 BST

Hi

I've been using a Toshiba Laptop PC for sometime to help run a traveller
game. The PC is just used as a quick way of going through some tables. Most
of the fun stuff, like personal and starship combat is done with the old
favourite dice. The programs I use are: Jo Jaquinta's excellent world
data viewer, an NPC generator and name generator from the archives, a few
other small progs to automate a few tables and an amazing program for
advanced character generation. This program generates all advanced 
MegaTraveller characters interactively or automatically. This really
speeds up the first part of the game. The program guides you through 
the rolling up process so you dont loose the feel of the rolling up process.
The guy who wrote it is considering making it available via shareware.


- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Netherwood                      reply to :  P.J.Netherwood@uk.ac.kingston
          
School of Computer Science and Electronic Systems,
Kingston Polytechnic, Penrhyn Road, Kingston-upon-Thames, Surrey KT1 2EE, UK.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3009
Subject: Re: (3005) Ship Combat and design 
From: TML Administrator <traveller-request@metolius.WR.TEK.COM>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 91 10:30:57 PDT


KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu writes:
> Ahh well, enough rambling, misspelling and grumbling from me...

> Scott Kellogg
> {Roll The R!}

That would go something like:

	ScrrRRrrRRott KrRRrrRRrrelloRRrrrRRRrrrg

James :->
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Traveller Mailing List Administrator	     James T Perkins @ Tektronix, Inc
traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com	     Beaverton, Oregon, USA
    "How many ancients can dance on the head of a pin?" - Scott Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3010
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 91 16:21:56 -0400
From: clh@bacchus.acpub.duke.edu (CHARLES HAMILTON)
Subject: Spinward Marches Campaign wanted

Hello all,

I was wondering if anyone out there would consider parting with 
their Spinward Marches Campaign book.  I've been searching for
over a year, but I believe this item is hopelessly out of print.

Alternatively, I would consider photocopies.  Just send me email
and we could work out the details.

Thanks in advance,

Chuck Hamilton
clh@bacchus.acpub.duke.edu


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3011
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1991 16:17 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Re: RE: RE: Ship combat and design

James writes:
>KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu writes:
>> Ahh well, enough rambling, misspelling and grumbling from me...

>>Scott Kellogg
>>{Roll The R!}

>That would go something like:
>	ScrrRRrrRRott KrRRrrRRrrelloRRrrrRRRrrrg

James!  I'm surprised at you!  Now you see my name on your breakfast table
EVERY MORNING!  And you haven't realized that there are TWO G's at the
end of my name!

Scott
"How many Administrators can squirm on the point of a pin?" - Scott Kellogg
(count the G's!)

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3012
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 91 18:35:19 EDT
From: burt@ptltd.COM (Burton Choinski.)

Scott Kellogg notes:

[] The High Guard system unfortunately does not allow for character
[] interactions.  Ship Tactics is used, Fleet tactics rarely, and
[] you only get a paltry bonus for Pilot-3 and Pilot-5.
[] Gunnery skill is never used at all.  (Stupid?  you bet!)
[] 
[] In combat, the Pilot never has to make a roll of the dice.  (Dumb)
[] In defending, a sandcaster or laser gunner doesn't roll the dice.  (Dumb)

I would like to avoid too many dire rolls.  The biggest pain in combat is
the friggin dice.

How about these apples:
    1) The pilot (or helmsman and navigator for large ships) and each gunner
       roll 2d+skill and consult <insert magic chart name> to determine a
       general efficiency rating for the start of combat.
    2) In combat, 2d6+(gunner rating)+(weapon accuracy rating)-(pilot rating)-
       (agility rating)-(defensive rating) is cross-checked on a firing table
       corresponding to the number of weapons fired (may use HG numbers for
       space saving) to determine the number of weapon hits.  The amount of
       computer resources devoted to the weapon system improves the basic
       accuracy bonus.  Likewise, the amount of resources devoted to evasive
       actions will determine the computer add to the ship's defensive rating.
    3) Every <insert number> of combat rounds of action, pilot and gunner
       numbers will move towards their "average rating".  Thus while the
       initial rounds of combat could find everyone at various degrees of
       readiness, longer combats will find them working at their averag level.
    
       example: Say on <magic chart> pilot A gets a roll of 10, giving him
       an efficiency of +2.  After X combat rounds, his extreme readiness will
       sink to +1, and eventually to +0.  Likewise, pilots who end up being
       off-guard (-2, -3, etc) will get "into the groove" and remove those
       nasty modifiers.  The size of the control-space (cramped, roomy) will
       alter the time to change levels (roomier = slower tiring and faster
       acclimation, more cramped = faster tiring and slower catch-up).

    4) Weapon accuracy's are based on ease of tracking and hitting (i.e. 
       beam lasers are +1, while pulse lasers are +0).

    5) Computer Power is "allocated" for different tasks.  Using the Maximum
       CP input as a "power rating", "allocate" these CP's for combat tasks.
     
       example: The ship's computer has <what ever fits, I don't have my book 
       with me> a limit of 15CP.  If the ship has two gunnery positions, the
       pilot may allocate 5CP to each gunnery position and reserve 5CP for
       evasive action control.

       This simulates the computer power dedicated toward target location
       prediction (i.e. Predict programs from book 2) as well as "Jinking"
       and "facing" changes for defeating such programs (i.e. Maneuver/Evade).
       
       The number of CP required for each bonus is some some power function,
       not linear.  The power function for evasion ramps up faster and starts
       at a higher number.  [Note: Somebody good at "does it look reasonable"
       math please come up with some functions...I was thinking of 
       2+CP^2 for gunnery and 3+CP^3 for evasion.
  
    6) The Hit tables correspond to the HG ratings:
   
               ------------ Roll ---------------
       Beams:  0-  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10 11 ....
          1    -- -- -- -- -- --  1  1  1  1   1  1 ....
          2    -- -- -- -- --  1  2  2  2  2   2  2 ....
          3    -- -- -- --  1  1  2  3  3  3   3  3 ....
          6    -- -- --  1  2  3  4  6  6  6   6  6 ....
         10    -- --  1  2  3  6  8 10 10 10  10 10 ....
                  
                  etc...  This chart is in no way accurate, just a
                     guide to what I was talking about.

[]
[]Small idea:
[]
[]Defender and attacker roll simultaneously.  Higher roll wins.
[]There would have to be modifiers due to skills, computer models, agility,
[]weapons used and power thereof.  (Yeah, you'd need tables of modifiers,
[]but it would be more exciting anyway {Which is the whole purpose behind
[]combat simulation anyway})  Also, If we could establish a rule for making
[]sence out of the modifiers it would be a lot quicker)

Ack! too much rolling!

[]Another problem with combat is the Damage charts.  We could use some more
[]colorful results than (-1 fuel, or -1 power{which doesn't mean anything
[]any more}).  I'd like to see a fleshed out damage table.  Say one with
[]hull breach on it (explosive decompression for the foolish enough not to
[]depressurize the hull before going into combat)  What about Fuel breach
[]inboard?  (liquid hydrogen gets dumped INside the ship)  Cargo hold hit?
[]Living quarters hit?  Small craft bay hit?  No they aren't deadly, but
[]they add flavor to the combat.
[]
[]'Hey Mark Venture, your stateroom was wiped out by that last salvo, so much
[]for your Queen Starsha blow up doll.'

If we don't mind escaping the dice mindset, perhaps a deck of cards could
be used.  GDW is using them for NPC personalities, why not come up with an
index using cards.  If you draw a card for a peice of equipment you don't have,
simply draw again.  

Like in SFB, when allocating damage, draw no more than 13 cards before
reshuffling the deck, to prevent the same damage for each ship.

===============================================================================
Burton Choinski                                       Phoenix Technologies, LTD
"All opinions are mine, not Phoenix's"                            Cambridge, MA
===============================================================================


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3013
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 91 07:42:21 CDT
From: surman@zulu.lgs.lsu.edu (Michael A. Surman)
Subject: A View of Ship Combat

I sent this a couple of days ago but it seems to have fallen
off the end of the cable! So here it is again.

>From: George William Herbert <gwh@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
>Subject: (3004) Simplified Ship Combat System

>From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
>Subject: (3005) Ship Combat and design

>et al.

One of the more interesting role-palying games I have, and like,
is Space Opera by FGU. Speaking from memory, which has been known
to be faulty :-), the starship combat system seems to be what 
everyone is writing about. It's not perfect but it did include 
damage to various ship systems, in more detail than what is in MT. 
Damage resolution was setup as cascading tables. The first table 
included major systems like engeering, bridge, weapons and such. 
Then each major system had a table and in some case there were 
subtables from the major systems. Damage was computed and determined
by another roll and if a system wasn't destroyed outright, hard to
do, it was given a repair time and difficulty level depending on
character skill and facilities available.

On another note, the group I play with here really doesn't care 
about starship combat. If I'm GM'ing a game and I include a
combat scene I know what the outcome will be, unless of course,
the players do someting totally off the wall (which has been known
to happen), and I play the scene to include the appropriate 
characters and their skills. I reslove damage on what I had planned
to happen. For me, it's much easier this way.

Mike Surman

PS:
If you haven't seen an FGU game, by all means, take a look at one!
It adds another meaning to the word complicated.


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3014
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 91 14:21:45 BST
From: Jo Jaquinta <jaymin@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie>
Subject: Computer Aided Role Playing

	I've only been catching up on the list every couple of weeks
or so recently (organising a major games convention and getting
married do that to you :-).
	Going back to the original article:

>Imagine an RPG that is still a table-top RPG, with GM, and printed 
>rules.  Only there is one *big* difference.  All of the nitty-gritty, 
>penicl-pushing, details are handled by silicon, rather than dice and 
>gray cells.   That is, the game comes with a program (and/or special-
>ized computer) that handles character generation, combat, travel 
>times, world generation, trade and commerce, etc.  
	A lot of benefits, a lot of problems. Most brought up and
discussed already. I felt the same and since the system generation
sub-list wasn't going anywhere I wrote my own: SYSGEN. When the players
want to access Library Data they poke at the screen and keyboard. I
have my own heads-up-display so I can follow them (the screen faces
them). I mainly use it in adventure preparation. I find it exceedingly 
useful but, despite being available to the list for over a year, no one 
out there has deigned to comment on it.
	Thinking that this is because most people run their adventures
in the standard traveller universe I have made LIBRARY. This reads in
the GENII sector data and expands this to World Builder Handbook level.
With the touch of a button I can print out a map of the *entire* Imperium
or the surface of any planet in it. (It only works on a PC and you need
at least a CGA to get the planet surfaces)
	But, once again, no one has expressed any interest in it. What's
the problem? It does half of what everyone has been asking for in this
thread and a quarter of the remainder is under development. Why don't
you people out there use it?

	The Shareware version of LIBRARY is available by FTP from 
lanczos.maths.tcd.ie in the jaymin/trav directory or from the mail
server info-server@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie (send one line containing HELP
for information). Please distribute to local bulliten boards and
such and *please* comment. It can't get any better if you don't say
what you don't like.

				Jo Jaquinta
_______________________________________________________________________________
Jo Jaquinta			| Warbot: "I am the very model of a modern
jaymin@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie	|		major war machine!"
Dublin, IRELAND			| Jakobot: "So what?"	[Extreme Paranoia]

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3015
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 91 00:28:25 EDT
From: uunet!popeet!wildstar@sequent.UUCP (Derek Wildstar)
Subject: A Massive Missive from Wildstar


A MASSIVE MISSIVE FROM WILDSTAR
 
Hi again, time for another long-winded response (luckily, I only get a chance
to compose these things on the weekends).  Again, it's long, because I am 
trying to cover most of the topics mentioned during the last week or so.  
Here goes!
 
CAUTION: FALLING ROCK ZONE
 
The October/November issue of Air&Space Smithsonian has an interesting article
by Gerrit L. Vershuur entitled "This Target Earth".  He reports on the recent
International Conference on Near-Earth Asteroids; and the article has some
bearing on a recent TML discussion.
 
According to Steve Ostro of JPL, an asteroid large enough (about 50 feet
accross, or larger) to produce a nuclear-sized blast passes within the
Moon's orbit once every several hours.
 
Eugene Shoemaker of the US Geological Survey estimates the chance that a
half-mile-wide object will strike the Earth within the next 100 years at one
in a thousand.  The odds are the same that an object half that size will
hit within 25 years.
 
David Morrison of NASA provided a rule of thumb for calculating the energy
of an asteroid impact.  The energy of an Asteroid striking the Earth at a
typical speed of 24,000 miles per hour is 50 times greater than that produced
by an equivalent amount of TNT.  A six-mile-wide object (such as the one
believed to have triggered the K-T extinction) would strike with the force
of a 100 million megaton TNT explosion (or about 10,000 times the the combined
destructive power of the world's nuclear arsenals).
 
The Tunguska blast has been estimated at 10 to 30 megatons, and could have
been caused by about half a million tons of ice and rock.  A collision
of that magnitude in an urban location today could kill up to 330,000 people.
 
FALLING ROCKS IN MEGATRAVELLER
 
A strike cruiser with empty 100-ton bays could cary a 1350-kiloliter
chunk of asteroidal material in each one.  Assuming that asteroidal rock
is similar to granite, it would mass 2770kg per cubic meter, or 1870 metric
tons.  On impact, each one would do about the same damage as 186.98 kilotons
of TNT (note that I am using metric tons here).  If the deadfall ordinance
were constructed of cast iron, it would mass 7200kg/m3, and pack a 0.486
megaton wallop.
 
A cruiser designed to carry deadfall ordinance in support of planetary
invasions could be designed to transport 25 such rocks in 100 ton bays.  A
50,000 ton cruiser would still have plenty of hardpoints left over for
adequate conventional armament.  A typical mission profile would have the
ship collect suitable rocks or deadfall bombs, and make an in-system jump
to the release point.  With proper navigation, the velocity vector of the
ship and rocks can be in opposition to that of the planet, resulting in
the necessicary velocity without undue maneuvering.  The ship then performs
final course corrections, releases the deadfall ordinance, and jumps away
before it passes within the 100-diameter limit.
 
A laser-armed ship could locate suitable rocks (just about any type would
do, but the denser the better; a 1350 cubic meter chunk of water ice would 
have the same destructive power as 67.5 kilotons of TNT).  Laser weapons
would then be used to cut the rocks to the correct shape for the bays.
Cast iron deadfall bombs could be manufactured relatively easily in any belt
with a sufficient supply of nickel-iron asteroids.  Basic microgravity
smelting and casting could create a large quantity of bombs cheaply.
Cheap and destructive.  Brings new meaning to the term "Iron Bomb".
 
ALSO FROM AIR&SPACE
 
Completely off the subject, but someone may be interested and want to take
advantage of this information.  General Chuck Yeager, USAF (Ret) will give
his annual General Electric Aviation Lecture at the Langley Theater in 
the Smithsonian's National Air and Space Museum on Thursday, October 17th.
Call the Smithsonian Information line at (202)-357-2700 for more information.
It's free.
 
COMPUTER-AIDED GAMING (THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STORY)
 
I have a friend (and avid gamer of all types) who insists that any computer
added to a role-playing session will ruin the session for everyone.  He
absolutely refuses to have anything to do with a game session which involves
a computer.  On the other hand, he uses a computer himself in preparation
for his games.
 
He bases his opinion on the observation that most of the people he knows
will tend to ignore the progress of the game (and also not properly
role-play their characters) while they play with the nifty new toy.
 
My general feeling is that almost any computer program is going to cause
at least as much work for the referee as it eliminates; its just a question
of what kind of work is easiest for the referee and players to handle in
the course of the game.  The "toy effect" will probably wear off after
everyone has had a chance to play with the computer for a couple of hours.
Once the thing stops being a novelty (say after a couple of sessions), then
everyone can get on with the game, and use it as an information resource.
 
COMPUTER AIDED ROLE-PLAYING
 
Personally, I would want a number of different things in a computer-based
role-playing game aid.  For the players I would want a database-like
program which could dispense library data and other information (much like
the kinds of things that are in the Imperial Encyclopedia).  Writing such
a program would not be hard -- the main trouble is in the massive amount
of data entry which would be necessacary in order for it to really take
the burden off of the referee.  The database would, of course, have to be
amenable to modifications by the referee.  Probably this would work by 
appplying some kind of pre-generated (by the referee, and perhaps on a 
different system) update file before each session).
 
As a referee I would want a program which could generate minor NPC's to
order.  For example, I might tell it that I wanted a Navy Captian and a 
pair of Marine guards.  With a little more data about the minor NPC's
available at no extra referee cost, I could add that much more detail
to the game.  Similarly, a program wich could whip up various kinds of
encounters would be nice.
 
The only computerized referee aids that I normally use are stored in my
programmable calculator (HP-41CV).  I have a number of dice simulations 
assigned to user-programmable keys.  When I have to roll a d26, I just type 
26 and hit the 1dX key.  Similarly, I have all of the standard kinds of 
polyhedral dice attached to other keys.  I also have a program which 
generates quick UPP stats for NPC's.
 
NOT THE COMPUTER LAB
 
Rob Miracle writes ...
>The real drawback to CARPs (Did I just create a nifty new acronym?) is the
>portability of the hardware.  I don't know of any one with a 10 seat computer
>lab with a multi-user computer at home for this (When I win the lottery . . .)
 
Well, it depends on what kind of hardware you want to write for.  I happen to
have three PDP-11's sitting around here (an 11/44, and 11/34, and an 11/23)
in operable condition.  The 11/23 has 8 serial ports, and cards can
be installed in the 11/44 to support over 24 users.  According to the DEC
literature I have, MUMPS, RSTS/E, or IAS on a midrange PDP-11 (like the 44) 
can support this many users.  At last count, we had more than a dozen 
termials or small computers here with compatible serial ports.  And that's 
not counting the three printing terminals or the Northstar MP/M box.   
Hmmm ... YES!  MegaTraveller on a ASR-33!
 
>tend to vary the location of where we play from week to week so lugging a big
>AT case around isn't practical either.  It is hard to justify $2500 for a
>laptop just to game with.  Once these problems are solved, then CARPs can
>become useful tools.
 
Give the technology another 5 years or so.
 
THE FRIGATES
 
Yes, more cost effective ships can be built.  Large ships are not cost
effective in combat for one major reason: a single spinal meson hit (say of 
about UCP Factor G or better) which penetrates will knock out almost any 
ship, unless it has multiple redundant backups of almost everything.  With 
a +6 DM on the Interior Explosion damage table, 6 rolls usually generate a 
"Mission Kill": a ship so badly damaged that it is no longer capable of 
fufilling its mission.  (The expected value of 6 rolls is 1.00 Critical, 
0.67 Fuel Tanks Shattered, Sensors-2.83, Jump-1.67, PowerPlant-1.33, 
Crew-0.50, and Computer-0.33).
 
The original reason I posted the designs was to try and get some feedback
from TML on the accuracy of the spreadsheet I used to create them.  Has
anyone found any impossibilities or strange numbers?
 
STARSHIP DESIGN AND COST-EFFECTIVENESS
 
I hadn't given the cost effectiveness of meson screens much thought; I
simply assumed that in any reasonable game, the costs of a defense (price,
mass, volume, and power consumption) approximately balance the utility (in
terms of defensive effectiveness).  I am guilty of forgetting that
MegaTraveller is not a reasonable game.
 
On the other hand, the only way to improve the DefDM of the frigate designs
is to reduce them to less than 10,000 dispacement tons; this may not be
possible without sacrificing all of the armor, screens, secondary weapons,
and reducing the meson gun to a factor J.  OK, so be it.
 
So, let's analyse a meson screen.  Let's start from the combat system's tasks.
In order for a ship to be hit with a meson gun, the weapon must first hit, and
then penetrate two possible defenses (meson screen and configuration).  I will
take a look at two ships, both assumed to be identical, except that the smaller
one has no screens, armor, secondary weapons, and has a factor J spinal mount.
The analysis will be for both ships, with [information about the small ship
appearing in brackets, like this].  Both ships have Mod-9/Fib computers, 6G
agility 6 maneuver drives, and are at TL 15.
 
To Hit: Difficult, OFF=(Computer Size + Weapon "To Hit" DM), DEF=DefDM
With a UCP T [J] Meson Gun, we have OFF=+18, and DEF=-14 [-15] for a net DM of
+4 [+3]; the weapon will hit on a roll of 7+ [8+], or about 58% [42%].
 
To Penetrate: Difficult, OFF=(Computer Size + "To Pen" DM), DEF=Computer Size
With a UCP 9 Meson Screen against a factor T [J] weapon, we have DMs of 
OFF=+15 [+11], and DEF=-9 for a net DM of +6 [+2]; the weapon will penetrate 
on a roll of 5+ [9+], or about 83% [28%].  Of course, a ship with no Meson 
Screen gets no roll at all.
 
For kicks, let's consider configuration.  The best has a "To Pen" DM of +6
[+3], while the worst has +11; a Needle/Wedge has +8 [+5].  The penetration
rolls are 5+ [8+] for the best, 0+ for the worst, and 3+ [6+] for a
Needle/Wedge.  The penetration probabilities are 83% [28%] at best, 100% at
worst, and 97% [72%] for the Needle/Wedge.
 
HYPOTHETICAL COMBAT
 
OK, what do those numbers mean?  Let's now consider a hypothetical combat
between these two ships.  For the small ship targetting the larger (Factor J
Meson Gun against a DefDM of -14, Factor 9 Meson Screen, and Needle/Wedge
configuration).  58% of the shots hit; of those, 28% penetrate the screen, and
finally, 72% of the remainder penetrate the configuration.  The net result is
that 11.7% of the shots fired actually damage the target.  The return fire
(Factor T meson gun against a DefDM of -15 and a Needle/Wedge configuraton)
hits 42% of the time, and 97% of those penetrate the configuration.  Of the
shots fired, 40.7% hit and penetrate.
 
This means that simply to achieve the same number of hits, the small vessels
must outnumber the larger ones by 3.48 to 1 (not unreasonable, considering
that the smaller ships are about one tenth the size of the large ones, and
probably achieve cost savings to match).
 
In the case of the frigates (or other "capital" ships), simply achieving an 
equal number of hits is not enough.  A Factor J hit on a 95,000 ton hull 
generates 10 interior explosions, but the frigates mount a Factor 4 black 
globe screen, which would reduce the damage to 2 interior explosions, and
those at a net -2 on the table.  The frigate should be able to absorb an
average of 10 such hits before a "mission kill" occurrs.  On the other hand, 
a Factor T hit on a 10,0000 ton hull generates 8 critical hits and 19 interior
 explosions.  With the fragate's globe screen up, the damage is reduced to 
11 interior explosions, each at a net -2 DM.  Two hits will kill the ship. 
 
The end result is that the group of smaller ships much acheive approximately
a 5 to 1 hit ratio over the frigate.  This could be achieved by outnumbering 
the large ship by about 19 to 1.  Depending on the exact design of the small
ships, this may or may not be possible.  This week's vehicle design challenge
is to come up with a ship under 10,000 tons which costs less than 
MCr 4,178.1033 in quantity and mounts a Factor J Meson Gun and 
delivers a DefDM of -15, when constructed at TL15.
 
A more efficient design for the smaller ships (using a type 7USL hull,
for example) may also help.  The new hit percentage by the frigate against the
smaller vessel becomes 34.9%.  This alters the hit ratio to 2.98 to 1, and the
damage exchange ratio becomes about 15 to 1.
 
CONCLUSION
 
A Meson screen is an effective defense against the smaller classes of Meson
Gun; a Factor 9 screen makes a vessel effectively immune to secondary meson
weapons (Factor B or less).  It is also an effective defense against weapons
(typically Factor C through M) on second-rate ships such as a hypothetical
sub-10,000 ton vessels.  It is not a very effective defense agains the main
guns (factors N through Z) of first-rate capital ships; but then again, 
nothing else is either, and a weak defense is better than none.
 
For pure combat efficency, a single-purpose, single-weapon design should
be able to defeat a much larger, general purpose vessel.  This was true in
WWII when a PT boat could (if it was lucky) dispatch an enemy cruiser, and
it is true now (consider an Exocet or Harpoon armed PHM) and it will
undoubetdly be true in the future.  But larger general-purpose ships will
still be built.
 
SIMPLIFYING STARSHIP COMBAT
 
George William Herbert <gwh@ocf.Berkeley.EDU> writes
>I realize that this is a really nasty and evil thing to do, especially
>since everyon's off on another "let's make it more realistic" bent, but I've
>seen enough of the mid to large scale starship combat that IMHO it's time
>to radically simplify it.
>What are people's ideas about cutting the hay out of MT starship combat?
>I don't want to ignore the reality factor, and I've got some vague ideas
>myself, but I'd like to hear what everyone else thinks also.
 
Take a long, hard look at Harpoon.  The actual damage system is quite
simple; all of the complexity of the game is in the sensors and deals with
the problem of locating your enemy.  Although Harpoon is by no means a
simple game, it provides suprisingly realistic results for the size of the
rulebook.  I haven't seen Captain's Edition Harpoon, which is supposed to
be an even simpler version.
 
General Suggestions for improving starship combat:
1) Change the time scale.  Starship combat happens incredibly slowly; a
modern Mk41 VLS (US Navy vertical launch missile system) can fire off
all 90 of its SM2 missiles in about a minute and a half.  Once firing starts,
a Harpoon combat that lasts 20 minutes (40 turns) is unusual; I've never
had one.  In comparison, the MegaTraveller spaceship combat turn is 20
minutes long.  Battles last for hours, and a TL15 missile bay has a ROF of 2, 
or 50 missiles in two and a half minutes (1/3 the speed of a Mk41).  Consider
time scales of 6 seconds, 1 minute, or (at most) 10 minutes; the same
scales used by the other MegaTraveller combat systems.
2) Bring back vector movement (the "circling in a hex" really bugs me).
3) The whole fire resolution system needs work.  I'd like to see really
big ships become more combat effective.
4) Take a look at old Book 2.  Talk about simplified.
 
HARDPOINTS and HULL DESIGN
 
There has been considerable discussion about hardpoint restrictions and vessel
construction.  A couple of points are probably worth discussing.  I have long
felt that the limitations on mounting of spaceship weapons are essentially
arbitrary.  Worth considering is the "40% rule" : That no more than 40% of
the ship's volume be allocated to movable (as opposed to fixed) weapons 
mounts.  In other words, one turret with 40% of the volume, or 40 turrets 
of 1% volume each.  In addition each weapon mount (movable or not) would
require a hardpoint - a specially designed location on the hull which can
accept a weapon installation.  The cost, mass, and waste volume of the hull 
should be derived from a formua similar to the following:
 
	Value = Base * MaxAccel * (K1 * SQRT(Volume) + K2 * Hardpoints)
 
Where Value is the value (Cost, Mass, or Waste Volume) to be determined,
MaxAccel is the maximum accelleration the hull can withstand, K1 and K2 are
a constants unique to the selected configuration and streamlining, Volume 
is the total volume enclosed by the hull, and Hardpoints is total volume of
weapons for which hardpoints are to be included.
 
NOBLE PLAYER CHARACTERS
 
One of my (few) hard-and-fast rules is that a player character cannot begin
play as a ruling noble.  If someone generates a character with a high social
standing, fine; I sit down with the player and make it quite clear what he
or she can and can't do.  Typically, the caracter is a junior (in terms of
proximity to ruling power) member of an important family.
 
Someone with a SOC of F should be in the same position of relative advantage
as someone with a STR or DEX of F.  It's relatively rare to generate, and can
make for some interesting role-playing.
 
One of the more memorable in recent games has been one Ezekial "Zeke" 
VonMeezer, the youger son of Baron Johann VonMeezer (a noble of some 
importance in the Marches).  The Baron still percieves Zeke as the headstrong,
irresponsible teenager who left the household twelve years ago to enlist in the
IISS (very much against his father's wishes) instead of following the family
tradition in his older brother's footsteps (first college; then a job in one of
the family businesses, to learn decision making; then a stint as manager at one
of the estates, to learn responsibility; then ...)
 
'Nuff Said!
Wildstar

"Earth ... everything about it is so dear to me ..." --- Admiral Juzo Okita
                                                         Space Cruiser Yamato

(better know in the US as Captain Avatar of the Argo [Star Blazers])

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3016
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 91 10:11:24 -0400
From: clh@bacchus.acpub.duke.edu (CHARLES HAMILTON)
Subject: WANTED: The Traveller Adventure

When I asked a couple of days ago if anyone had the Spinward
Marches Campaign book, I meant to ask instead about The Traveller
Adventure.  So...

If anyone has a copy of The Traveller Adventure which they would
like to sell, or which they could photocopy for me (with recompensation),
please send email to:
clh@bacchus.acpub.duke.edu

Thanks.

Chuck Hamilton

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin), bfwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Raven Blackburn),
        anthony@cs.pitt.edu (Michael Anthony Kapolka),
        mcknight@f104.n170.z1.fidonet.org (Chuck McKnight),
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Subject: TML Bundle #246: Msgs 3016-3032
Reply-To: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Precedence: bulk
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 91 21:00:15 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com>
Status: R


TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed Oct 23 21:00:11 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #246: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
3017  17-Oct-91 Rob Miracle       Re: CARPs << In (3014) Computer Aided Role Pl
3018  17-Oct-91 SULAIMAN@ecs.umas Wildstar's frigates. << If u are going to put
3019  17-Oct-91 SULAIMAN@ecs.umas Wildstar "frigates" << On rereading Wildstar'
3020  17-Oct-91 teets@frith.egr.m SYSGEN and LIBRARY << In article 3014 Jo stat
3021  18-Oct-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Somewhat late: 3G Massdrivers << Ok, I realiz
3022  18-Oct-91 bermuda!givler@on SYSGEN and LIBRARY << I have SYSGEN, but do n
3023  20-Oct-91 CDF1@PSUVM.PSU.ED A Note From A GEnie Reader << Item 4031443 91
3024  20-Oct-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au High Velocity Projectiles << Hi folks, Well, 
3025  21-Oct-91 Adrian Hurt       Re: ship combat << SULAIMAN@ecs.umass.edua wr
3026  21-Oct-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au The Herbert Dean Meson Sub goes into action..
3027  21-Oct-91 CDF1@PSUVM.PSU.ED Challenge 53 Wet Navy Errata << This just in 
3028  22-Oct-91 Nicholas Sylvain  Scattered Thoughts << All this recent talk ab
3029  22-Oct-91 Hans Rancke-Madse Cracking planets with ball-bearings << On the
3030  22-Oct-91 Hans Rancke-Madse Jump torpedoes << > > Tweel pauses a moment f
3031  22-Oct-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Summary of Designs << For the morbidly curiou
3032  22-Oct-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Summary of Designs << For the morbidly curiou
3033  23-Oct-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Digest Group Pub << What ever happened to Man

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3017
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1991 12:39 EDT
From: Rob Miracle <RWMIRA01%ULKYVX.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: CARPs

In (3014) Computer Aided Role Playing, Jo Jaquinta
<jaymin@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie> writes:

>       But, once again, no one has expressed any interest in it. What's
>the problem? It does half of what everyone has been asking for in this
>thread and a quarter of the remainder is under development. Why don't
>you people out there use it?

Jo, in my specific case, I don't have a use for it and I can't get it EASILY.
I have to use BITFTP and it is real picky about going overseas for things.
When we go live on Internet within the next few weeks, that will most definatly
change.  Now, I don't have a use for it because I can't get anyone here in
Louisville to play Traveller.

I think it would be more in demand if we had computers where we play.  We have
four gaming Zones per se.  At one house, we play around a ping-pong table.  The
computer is upstairs in a office.  At another, we sit on couches and chairs.
The Amiga is in the same room but not really available where we sit.  The DM
has at times used Deluxe Paint on the Amiga to do Dungeon mapping, but it
slowed things down, though it was rather useful.

At the other two locations the computer is in an office while we sit around in
the living room.  Only the one house where we use the PingPong table would
gathering the group around the computer to look things up would work well.

uunet!popeet!wildstar@sequent.UUCP (Derek Wildstar) writes:

>Rob Miracle writes ...
>>The real drawback to CARPs (Did I just create a nifty new acronym?) is the
>>portability of the hardware.  I don't know of any one with a 10 seat computer
>>lab with a multi-user computer at home for this (When I win the lottery . . .)

>Well, it depends on what kind of hardware you want to write for.  I happen to
>have three PDP-11's sitting around here (an 11/44, and 11/34, and an 11/23)
>in operable condition.  The 11/23 has 8 serial ports, and cards can

Again, this requires a dedicated facility.  The powerbill on that 11/44 must be
a killer :-)  I wish I had those facilities, but space is another issue as well
as portability.

Computers in role-playing are very useful.  I use them to generate systems,
NPCs, Cargo, and names.  I usually keep my most important characters in
electronic form.  I wrote a program that would take the sector data and
generate the Postscript subsector maps for each sector (based on works from the
TML).  I use drawing software to create maps and art work when it makes sense
to do so.  I also use a lot of hand drawn art as well.  I would love nothing
more than to have a computer handy as a GM and I would love to have the Library
data sitting there for the players.  I just can't afford a Laptop to make it
portable.

Just more random comments!

Rob

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3018
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1991 11:42 -0500
From: SULAIMAN@ecs.umass.edu
Subject: Wildstar's frigates.

If u are going to put in black globes into the picture then the whole
situation changes a bit. Your target vessels also get protected against
the factor T by the black globe. In addition as I recall, the black
globe reduces your craft's agility as well (the definition of agility
notwithstanding).

Your challenge is well-taken.

Ameer

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3019
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1991 16:47 -0500
From: SULAIMAN@ecs.umass.edu
Subject: Wildstar "frigates"

On rereading Wildstar's last note I realised that he did include
the black globe for armor mod.

My original reference was not that meson screens are not cost-effective, but
that they in themselves confer no advantage to larger ships. A factor-9
screen can be mounted on a under 10kt ship and changes the probability
picture of above combat dramatically.

The agility DM becomes far more important and forces a smaller is 
better philosophy. 

Planetary Bombardment:

Scott kellogg and Rob Dean pursued the rocks as bombs theory to
great lengths whereas it was proven that a small lead bullett could
be used to "crack" an entire world ( given enough initial velocity).
It is virtually indetectible and a Type S could do it.


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3020
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 91 21:24:24 -0400
From: teets@frith.egr.msu.edu
Subject: SYSGEN and LIBRARY


    In article 3014 Jo states that there has been very little feedback on his
computer program.  I thought that I should perhaps respond as I have been 
interested in it but have not yet used it.  The reason I haven't is the same
as the reason that many people do not used more productive software:  Usually
people will use what they have rather than something new because they are used
to it.  Another fact is that some of the older sysgen programs stumped me for
days in the attempts to get them running.  Sorry Jo, I'll take another look 
and try it out.  Efforts of yours and other persons who provide us with these
programs and alternative systems ARE appreciated.  Its just the rest of us are
probably a little lazy too.  Matt.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3021
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Somewhat late: 3G Massdrivers
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 91 8:52:19 MET

  Ok, I realize that this is very late, but I actually did that thought-
experiment with stacking a lot of massdrivers after eachother and adding their
energy. The result was that, no, using the 3G model of MD's it is not 
possible to reach 1% of c in 100 meters. The higest speed was 0.1% of c which
I got with a 2mm water sphere. All changes from that, higher diameter or
heavier bullet resulted in lower speeds.

  However, if it is energy we are after it is possible to reach high amounts,
but that will result in a relatively slow projectile or a ludicrously long
accelerator.

- -bertil-
- -- 
"ninetyseven pretenders to the throne
 ninetyseven pretenders to the throne
 shoot one down
 fight for the crown
 ninetysix pretenders to the throne"

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3022
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 91 08:57:26 EDT
From: bermuda!givler@onion.rain.COM (Greg Givler)
Subject: SYSGEN and LIBRARY

I have SYSGEN, but do not have the GENIE stuff, just a question, is the 
GENIE stuff available in the TML archives, if it is then I will get it from 
there. I had promised to look at the program and give bug reports and stuff
like that, I do that for a living you know. But unfortunately the PC
compatible that I have at work was at best flakey then went totally south. 
You know I just realized the southerners out there must have a lot of broken
computers, :-) anyway, once I get the data files and the latest versions
of SYSGEN and LIBRARY I will give it a whirl. Sorry Jo that I didn't do what 
I promise, it's just Commodore wanted me to look at their software instead.
I keep trying to have fun, but people keep expecting me to work for my paycheck.

Greg

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Givler                        | Q-Link: GregGivler
Analyst - Systems Evaluation Group | CompuServe: Greg Givler 76702,647
Commodore Product Assurance        | GEnie: G.Givler
215-431-9100                       | The NET: givler@cbmvax.commodore.com
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 "By the way, don't eat the figs." - Livia to Tiberius after the death of
                        Augustus - I, Claudius PBS
===============================================================================


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3023
From: CDF1@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Date:    Sun, 20 Oct 91 12:17 EDT
Subject: A Note From A GEnie Reader

Item    4031443                 91/10/17        21:20

From:   J.KUNDERT                       James R. Kundert

To:     C.FAGO1                         Carl D. Fago

Sub: Recent TML musings

    In the past weeks, I have been watching the TML with great
interest.  I would appreciate it greatly if you would post this
letter, so that I can get my 2 cents in.  This covers no single
topic...

 - A while back, someone asked about playing nobles.  Without
getting long-winded, let me remind you that individual planets
have rulers and nobility, who may or may not ALSO have Imperial
titles, but will have power.  Unlike a holder of an Imperial
patent, the relative power of such planetary nobility is entirely,
justifiably, at the mercy of the Referee, because the home
planet can vary so much.  The King of a world with 4000 people
may have a high title, but won't have as much power as the state
governor ("Baron") of a world with 4,000,000 inhabitants.

 - About Star Viking:  All system questions aside, my understanding
of the "Plunder Era" is that it is at least a decade further
down the (Imperial) timeline, possibly more.  Those of you disgruntled
with the Rebellion Era should probably read "Prologue: Adventures in
the Imperium's Past" in Journal #20 (yes, I know it's hard to find).
The important point is that the history of the three Imperiums is
defined well enough for play at nearly any point along the timeline.
Star Viking could be about several periods of humaniti's history,
including the post-Rebellion era.  What Star Viking does is extend
the known timeline forward as well as backward.  Traveller has always
been applicable to differing levels of technology.  If it weren't, it
wouldn't have rules for building craft at any TL other than 15.

 - Burton, Hordelings, et all: If you design ships using hardpoint
variations or other _major_ anomalies from the RM, please label
them for us.  Minor anomalies can be ignored; major anomalies don't
get used (unless well labeled).

 - To all you craft designers:  I've been collecting ship designs from
many and various sources, and I have noticed that odd Tech Levels get
most of the attention.  Let's see a few 12s and 14s, eh?

 - Scott Kellogg and other Wet Navels:  Here is a timetable for Wet
Navy, George's "Proposed Waterfaring Craft Design Rules",
and related events:

   Apr 29, 1990 -- Wet Navy, Part 1 (Sailor characters), and Part 2
                   (Design) appears in GEnie Games RT Library. The author
                   is Terry McInnes.
   May  7, 1990 -- Terry McInnes starts Topic 38 (Wet Navy) in the
                   GEnie Games RT.
   Jun  5, 1990 -- Wet Navy, Part 2 (rev 4) appears in Games Library.
                   This is the last revision to appear on GEnie.
                   Further revision is piecemeal in Topic 38 or never
                   appears on GEnie.
   Jul 30, 1990 -- Wet Navy, Part 3 (Combat) appears in GEnie Games
                   RT Library.  This includes the first draft of the
                   fiction which appears in Challenge 53.
   Aug  _, 1990 -- I (James Kundert) first log on to GEnie.
   Oct  5, 1990 -- I begin design of a Meson-bay submarine.  Holes
                   in then-current design system halts project.
                   Discussion of rotating spinal mounts follows my
                   question about facings. (All documented in Topic 38).
   Nov 26, 1990 -- Initial report:  sale of Wet Navy to Challenge Magazine.
   Dec  2, 1990 -- Stephen Madjanovic appears in Topic 38, and promptly
                   turns the power/speed formula inside-out.  Further
                   revisions occur, of which very few reach GEnie.
   Apr  4, 1991 -- George William Herbert posts his "Proposed
                   Waterfaring Craft Design Rules" to the TML.
   Apr  _, 1991 -- Terry McInnes goes on vacation for two months, and is
                   entirely unreachable during that time.  Some final
                   revision takes place with the assistance of
                   an anonymous naval architect.
   Apr 13, 1991 -- Rob Dean posts his first Waterfaring designs to the TML.
   May  _, 1991 -- I gain net access.  Late in month I join the TML.  Aside
                   from Wilson "Mac" Liaw (who doesn't talk much), this is
                   the first time the two (GEnie/HIWG and TML) are
                   connected.
   Jun  3, 1991 -- I post my first (and only) message to the TML
                   (as jim@grapenuts.llnl.gov, an address I no longer use)
                   and pass the word about Wet Navy. Frantic E-Mail
                   flies for several days between George and myself, and
                   a letter gets sent to Challenge.
   Jun 19, 1991 -- George posts the results of his letter to Challenge.
   Jul  6, 1991 -- Scott Kellogg posts his "Herbert Dean class Meson Sub"
                   to the TML.
   Jul  7, 1991 -- Feasibility of Deep Meson Sites and Subs argued on TML.
                   This continues for some time.
   Jul 10, 1991 -- Rob Dean first appears on GEnie.
   Oct 13, 1991 -- Challenge 53 appears in stores. Contains first half of
                   Wet Navy Design rules.  There are problems, but most
                   occured between submission and publication.  Corrections
                   should appear with second part.
   Nov  _, 1991 -- Challenge 54 appears in stores. Contains the remainder
                   (we hope) of the Wet Navy Design rules.  This should
                   include sub depth limits (which are part of design
                   evaluation).
   Dec  -, 1991 -- Challenge 55 appears in stores.  May or may not have
                   further Wet Navy material (I don't recall the final
                   decision from Challenge).

    Note that your Meson Sub appears near the bottom of this chronology.
Even with Rob and Carl present on both networks, GEnie and the TML are still
basically isolated from each other, so there is no COPYING involved.
Submarine SDB designs at high TL tend to start looking the same after
some thought is applied to weapons technology.
    As a comment on the sub itself:  without grav plates and inertial
compensation, that sub is not going to be able to fire the Meson-T at
targets more than 20 or 30 degrees above (or below) the horizon.  Spinal
Mounts must be aimed by turning the ship (or sub).  Only massive structures
(like the Imperial Palace, or a planet) have the space available for
rotating spinal mounts.


    I hope to return to an active role on the TML before too much longer.

 James "Farstar" Kundert

=END=


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3024
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1991 22:56 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: High Velocity Projectiles

Hi folks,

Well, all the talk about the subject of high velocity projectiles got me
to thinkin' about it again.  (OH NO! I hear you cry, NOT AGAIN!)

Well, for those who don't remember, Here was the basic summary.

Take a Scout ship, accelerate for 18 days @ 2 G's and you reach 10% of the
speed of light.  Toss a 10 gram object out the airlock and it will hit
with the equevalent energy of 1 Kiloton of TNT.

Problems:  @ .1c navigation can be difficult.  A dust particle will rip your
ship to shreds...  Sensors won't provide aedequate warning time for course
corrections.  The potential energy of the hydrogen fuel (when converted
completely from mass to energy w/100% efficiency) is insufficient to get you
to .1c.  There were other problems.  I still think if done outside the
eccliptic plane the nav problems could be solved, but that's not really
important.

Well, I got to thinking about this matter again, and wondered just what
energy  would be had after just 1 day's worth of acceleration @ 2G's.
Well, with some really rough back of the envelope calculations.  (no I didn't
really check my math very well)  One comes to the conclusion that one
must increase the mass of the projectile dramatically to keep the energy
the same.  So, after 1 day's acceleration instead of 10 grams, you have
to throw 3.25 kilograms out the airlock to still hit the target with 1
kiloton.  So, you want that city wiped out?  Just throw 3.25 metric tons
out at it for a one megaton yield.

Now while I am willing to conceed that accelerating on a constant vector
for 18 days might get you a speeding ticket, accelerating for ONE day will
have to fall under the category of normal operations for a scout ship.

BOOM!

Scott Kellogg
92 pretenders to the throne on the wall
92 pretenders to the throne
If one of their power bases happens to fall
91 pretenders to the throne on the wall

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3025
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: ship combat
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 91 9:58:03 BST

SULAIMAN@ecs.umass.edua writes:
> 
> If u are going to put in black globes into the picture then the whole
> situation changes a bit. Your target vessels also get protected against
> the factor T by the black globe.

Am I the only one who felt that this is silly?  Black globes can "flicker",
i.e. switch on and off in order to let weapons and drives work.  Why not
synchronise the weapons (or at least, the spinal mount) with the globe -
for a while, the globe switches off, and the weapon fires unimpeded.  Of
course, if an enemy weapon hits at the same time, it is also unaffected.
But for an enemy ship to arrange for his fire to arrive at my ship at the
exact time that the black globe switches off while I fire is a pretty neat
trick.

Also, how come missiles treat black globes as armour?  I'd think that either
the missile gets through, and does its full damage, or it doesn't get through,
and does nothing except give the black globe some energy.  There's also the
matter of what happens to solid matter in general when it hits a black globe.

Anyway, when I used black globes in High Guard, I disregarded the bit about
a black globe protecting both the user and the enemy; and when missiles hit,
I rolled a D10 to see if they got through.  (If 1D10 was greater than the
ship's USP black globe code, the missile got through, and was unaffected by
the black globe, otherwise the missile hit the globe.)

One article later, SULAIMAN@ecs.umass.edu also writes:
> 
> Planetary Bombardment:
> 
> Scott kellogg and Rob Dean pursued the rocks as bombs theory to
> great lengths whereas it was proven that a small lead bullett could
> be used to "crack" an entire world ( given enough initial velocity).
> It is virtually indetectible and a Type S could do it.

Here we go again.  Summary of arguments about this idea:
..Anyone caught doing it would be lynched by everyone.  The Imperial and
Zhodani navies would probably co-operate for the first time in their lives
to catch the culprit.

..The type S would have to accelerate to a tremendous velocity to do this.
Physics experts here doubted that the ship could get enough kinetic energy
from the ship's drives.

..The ship which tried this would itself be vapourised by the first dust
particle it hit.  The only pilot you would get for such a mission would
be a mad Vargr intent on getting the title "fastest sentient being alive",
shortly before he got the title "fastest cloud of gas", and with a big
question being raised about the inclusion of the word "sentient" in the
former title.


- -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3026
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1991 17:39 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: The Herbert Dean Meson Sub goes into action...

I didn't mean to start a battle, but...

"Battle stations!  Energize main defensive nuclear dampers, power to main
meson screens.  Sensors, get me some identification on the attacking
vessels!"

"Con, Sensors, the planetary defence sensor grid says there's a Bat-Ron of
Empress Jeannie class battle ships out there, coming in fast."

The navigator swung around.  "Captain, that blast we felt was the number
sixty two underwater geothermal power station.  Lucky no one was there."

"Right, so the enemy has advanced knowlege of our submarine power net, but
NOT where the subs are.  Communications, send warning to the fleet.  Tell
them Geothermal station 62 is out.  Tell the Skydivers to prepare for action.
Divert them to any sensor bouys dropped by the Jeannie fleet."

"Weapons officer, have you got a lock yet?"

"Aye sir, we have a passive neutrino lock on what appears to be the
lead Jeannie in the fleet.  Bearing 32 degrees, angle of elevation
82 degrees."

"Diving Officer, raise ship into firing position."

"Aye sir, 20 degrees up on the bow planes..."

The dark hull of the meson sub stirred from the bottom like a shark.  The
trailing umbillical fed power to the subs systems so that not a single
neutrino would betray their position.  Inside the ship, the crew's couches
rotated as the angle of the deck raised to 82 degrees.  Not as comfortable
as it might be with grav plates to compensate, but then the artificial
gravity field would have betrayed the sub's position to the enemy fleet.

The weapons officer chimed out.  "Meson gun in position, awaiting orders to
fire!"

The captain growled for a moment and gave the command in a calm voice, "Fire."
Then under his breath, "Eat hot mesons, invader!"

(snicker snicker snicker)	:->

But seriously, I now realize that the Wet Navy stuff was worked on long
before I ever designed the Herbert Dean Meson Sub.  But, I still stand
by its design.  The lack of Grav plates & inertial comps was Not an
oversite, I wanted to reduce the signature of the ship (even if the
reduction won't show up in the rules as they are now.)  Grav plates,
inertial comps, etc. suck power.  to reduce the fusion reactor requirements
I just took 'em out.  Now, while you may say that's gonna be difficult
for a ship that tries to change it's orientation in a planet's gravity, I
would say no.  That would be taken into account in the design.  Rotating
couches or something similar.

Actually, I would have to argue that rotating couches would have to be
standard equipment on all combat ships in case of environmental systems
failure.  It is analogus to normal submarine operations.  They may have
backup lighting systems, but they are trained to operate the ship in
the dark.

If they weren't standard on combat ships, you'd have ships being rendered
combat ineffective by environmental systems damage.  Also, Tech level
9 combat ships without grav plates or inertial comps would never be able
to funtion well.

As for the story in challenge, I still say it is a STUPID idea to put
lasers on a submarine.  Even X-ray lasers.  The whole idea of a submarine
is to conceal your location,  In order to use the lasers, you have to put
up a bouy as they did and that will reveal your location to some nut with
a nuclear missile.  And a nuclear missile against a sub, underwater will
be FAR more effective than against a ship in vacuum.  Direct fire weapons
went out at EARLY tl 6 when the British and French gave up on the idea of
submarine monitors and submarine cruisers.  Missiles and meson guns are
the only weapons that will be effective at high tech levels.  (counting
torpedoes as missiles)

By the way, have I interpreted the hull construction rules correctly as
they state them?  According to the way I read it, steel, superdense, and
coherant superdense all require the same thickness to give an equal amount
of armored protection.  Thus a 1 centimeter thickness of steel will have
the same strength as a 1 centimeter plate of coherant superdense, but the
superdense will weigh much less.  If so, why is it called 'dense'?  It
makes no sence to me.

Also, I didn't see any formula for the calculation of operational/crush
depth.  Will this follow?

Well, we now have rules to build TL zero through four ships, will we see
rules on how to arm them?  What's the Penetration/attenuation of a
6 pounder?	Any ideas?

Scott Kellogg
Design Freak Extraordinaire.

BTW, as we stated before, The Horde small craft collection was designed
with the agility formula that Rob Dean and I agreed upon and posted for
all to see.  If you don't like that, then the agility for most of them
becomes zero.  (Until you enter combat and use emergency agility whereupon
it goes back up to where it was before!)

PS  Did I read that right?  You want MORE designs?  TL 10?  12?  14?
hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe....
Actually, I'm overloaded w/ course work right now.  But I'll think about it.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3027
From: CDF1@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Date:    Mon, 21 Oct 91 21:42 EDT
Subject: Challenge 53 Wet Navy Errata

This just in on GEnie...  (no editing of the original message)


Games RoundTable
Category 11,  Topic 38
Message 201       Mon Oct 21, 1991
T.MCINNES2 [T.MCINNES2]      at 09:48 EDT

James Kundert had some questions about Wet Navy Part # in  Challenge #53.
Here are the answers plus a copy of a  letter to GDW requesting an errata to
correct some  typographical errors in the published copy

James,
 At last, a moment to respond to your bulletin board item.
 Page 22:  Yes, Diesel engines have no scale efficiency, and steam engines one
scale efficiency.
 Page 22-23  Its a ratio (in all cases, not just MHD tunnel drives) of weight
to meters in diameter and volume (in kiloliters) to meters in diameter,
although volume is not necessary except in tunnel drive systems.  Would have
loved to include an example but space was tight, extremely tight.
 Page 23- Sails:   50% of the mast height is the total yardarm span limit.
 You're right about the maximum fore and aft sail area. Although, further
testing suggests this may be too limiting.  It doesn't allow for very large
jibs, for instance.
 Page 24, the sail power table-- Yep, you're right, I should have included a
kg/meter column to make the transition easier.
 Page 24, the formulae: V2should beV squared.  The R formula  should be R=
sqrt (D)* rf (theresistance factor from the hull type  table.)
 Page 25, Superstructures:  That's an abbreviated version of the hull damage
point calc, only determining the destroyed level because I don't think you can
render a superstructure inoperable, but you sure can destroy it.  It relates
to combat rules and hit location tables yet to come, Michelle and Challenge
readers willing.

 As information, hereis the text of the letter I sent to Michelle  after
reading thePart 1 galley proofs:

 "Dear Michelle:
 I received the galley proofs for Wet Navy Part 1 yesterday afternoon and
checked them this morning.  I found a couple of areas where changes were
needed and tried to phone you at the office this morning.  However, the person
I spoke with said Challenge #53 was at the printers.
 These are the changes that are needed:
 Page 19, first paragraph:  You had changed the copy to read "Select a hull
size from the UCP column in the MegaTraveller basic hull design section of the
Small Craft Hull Table..."  This is incorrect, you can select a hull size from
any of the three hull size tables in the basic hull design section.  Wet
Vessels can be (and often are) as large as starships.
 Page 19, third paragraph:  "MegaTraveller Small Craft Hull Table."  Again,
any of the three tables can be used.
 Page 21 "Powered Ships" section third paragraph beginning "Calculate Hull
Resistance: Use the formula R=CDxrf..."  the formula should read R=(sqrt
(D))*rf.  The parentheses were  dropped. These are needed to make sure that
only the square root of D is extracted then multiplied by rf when calculating
R.  Otherwise a reader may multiply D times rf then extract the square root of
result which is incorrect.
 Page 23  "Sail Area" section, second paragraph, third sentence beginning "
Maximum mast height..."  Should read "Maximum mast height in meters equals the
square root of a hull's volume in kiloliters."; inserting "hull's" between "a"
and "volume".
 Page 24  The potential speed formula is incorrect.  You have it as V2=P2/R.
It should be V2=P2/R, that is V squared = (P*2)/R.

 (For clarification:  The power formula is P = R(V squared)/2. The velocity
formula is V Squared = (P times 2)/ R.)

 Page 24  The resistance formula is missing its parentheses. Should be R=(sqrt
(D)) * rf.  See my comments above.
 If at all possible, please publish at least the errata concerning the
formulae in Challenge #54.  If readers use the formulae as stated in #53 they
will get incorrect results.  Thanks in advance,
       Terry McInnes"

- ----------

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3028
Date:         Tue, 22 Oct 91 01:30:48 EDT
From: Nicholas Sylvain <NPSYLV%WMVM1.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Scattered Thoughts

All this recent talk about the new Wet Navy materials and Challenge prompted
me to put in my .02 Cr on the subject.

It's an interesting set of rules and I think a fine addition to MT, in that
it covers a fair sized gap in the rules. Having said that, I must also say
that I will not purchase this issue of Challenge, nor the next issue with
the second part, or Lord help us, a third issue with a third part. Why?

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not going to pay $7+ just for a Wet Navy
rules addition, particularly when it's sandwiched into two or three magazines
along with materials on what seems like a dozen other gaming systems. It's
just not enough of a lure. I'd much rather save my money for purchases where
I'm getting some real value and quality for my dollar.

For me, I'm salivating over the impending appearance of Solomani/Aslan, which
according to my hobby store DGP sophont, should be available by the end of
the month (if all goes well). Now THAT should be worth every penny if it is
as good as Vilani/Vargr was. However, I was sorely disappointed by the news
that the Robots/Cyborg book is on hold for the forseeable future. That is
another huge gap that cries out for redress... sigh. And with some luck, it's
not too much further to MTJ#3, so I'm happy..

.... and if I need comic relief, there's always Star Viking. :->

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state,
 the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
                   -- United States Constitution, Amendment 2

Nicholas Sylvain (npsylv@wmvm1.cc.wm.edu)
Marshall-Wythe School of Law
College of William and Mary

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3029
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Cracking planets with ball-bearings
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 91 19:18:59 MET

On the subject of high velocity projectiles Scott Kellog writes:

> Well, I got to thinking about this matter again, and wondered just what
> energy would be had after just 1 day's worth of acceleration @ 2G's.
> Well, with some really rough back of the envelope calculations. (no I didn't
> really check my math very well) One comes to the conclusion that one
> must increase the mass of the projectile dramatically to keep the energy
> the same. So, after 1 day's acceleration instead of 10 grams, you have
> to throw 3.25 kilograms out the airlock to still hit the target with 1
> kiloton. So, you want that city wiped out? Just throw 3.25 metric tons
> out at it for a one megaton yield.
>
> Now while I am willing to conceed that accelerating on a constant vector
> for 18 days might get you a speeding ticket, accelerating for ONE day will
> have to fall under the category of normal operations for a scout ship.
>
> BOOM!

And Adrian Hurt writes:

>
> One article later, SULAIMAN@ecs.umass.edu also writes:
> >
> > Planetary Bombardment:
> >
> > Scott Kellogg and Rob Dean pursued the rocks as bombs theory to
> > great lengths whereas it was proven that a small lead bullett could
> > be used to "crack" an entire world ( given enough initial velocity).
> > It is virtually indetectible and a Type S could do it.
>
> Here we go again. Summary of arguments about this idea:
> .Anyone caught doing it would be lynched by everyone. The Imperial and
> Zhodani navies would probably co-operate for the first time in their lives
> to catch the culprit.

Lucan rewarded an admiral who reduced a planet by conventional weaponry.
And it wouldn't help against crazies or fanatics (there's a difference?)

> .The type S would have to accelerate to a tremendous velocity to do this.
> Physics experts here doubted that the ship could get enough kinetic energy
> from the ship's drives.
>
> .The ship which tried this would itself be vapourised by the first dust
> particle it hit. The only pilot you would get for such a mission would
> be a mad Vargr intent on getting the title "fastest sentient being alive",
> shortly before he got the title "fastest cloud of gas", and with a big
> question being raised about the inclusion of the word "sentient" in the
> former title.

Perhaps it would, but that dosen't help against Scott's suggestion above.
No, the best reason why it dosen't work may be that the Referee don't want
any crazy shipowner in his game to be able to destroy a planet at a whim,
and so therefor he can't (or won't think about it). There's already other
areas where we have to be unrealistic in order to make the game fun. Think
about it. Even today weapons are made where the only real defense is to
avoid getting shot at. What with laser rangefinders and target painting and
special ammunition I'm pretty sure that no real-life Traveller-style bunch
of adventurers would last longer than one or two fights. But we want our
players to last longer than one or two adventures, so we have rule that
makes getting shot at survivable (with luck ;-)

      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3030
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Jump torpedoes 
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 91 22:07:08 MET

>
> Tweel pauses a moment for thought.
>
> "Perhaps you'rrre rright.  But for certain applications it would work.
> Jump torpedoes and other probes for example."
>

Funny, I got to thinking about jump torpedoes the other day. They are
mentioned in OT Adventure 4 "Leviathan", but not stats are given. Does
anybody know the size, power plant etc. of a jump torpedo? How does the
concept of jump torpedoes square with the rule that the minimum size of
a jump-capable vessel is 100 T? (Or am I misremembering? There is such a
rule, isn't there?)


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3031
Date:     Tue, 22 Oct 91 16:09:43 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Summary of Designs




For  the  morbidly  curious, the following is a  summary  of  the 
vehicle designs I have done, as currently organized in my  files.  
There  are about four recent designs that I know I have  not  yet 
uploaded.

     Mil      Civ                          Mil        Civ   
TL   Vehicles Vehicles Aircraft Watercraft Spacecraft Spacecraft Total
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
 4      -        -         -         3         -          -         3
 5      3        2         3         2         -          -        10
 6      1        6         3         6         -          -        16
 7      1        3         2         2         -          1         9
 8      9       10        10         2         -          8        39
 9     14        9         6         1         4          4        38
10     15       13         -         1         4          4        37
11      2        4         -         -         7          8        39
12      3        6         -         -         2          4        15
13      6        8         -         -        26          7        47
14      2        1         -         -         2          2         7
15      6        6         -         -        29         21        62
16      -        -         -         -         1          -         1
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Total  62       68        24        17        75         59       305

'Bubbles' in the counts are provided by attempts to design a planetary army at 
TL9,  a mercenary ground unit at TL10, a mercenary fleet, a  planetary  fleet, 
and  a Vargr corsair fleet at TL13, and a subsector fleet and a merchant  line 
at  TL15.  Most of my designs are pegged to a producing world in the  Glisten, 
District 268, Lunion or Sword Worlds subsectors of the Spinward Marches,  home 
to  all of my games.  The absence of high population TL12 and TL14  worlds  in 
this region (Sacnoth/Sword Worlds excepted) has a strong correlation with  the 
lower  quantities  of  designs at those tech levels.  After  all,  I'm  mostly 
designing  these things for my own use...posting them for the rest of  you  is 
gravy.

Regarding  variant  systems:  It can be assumed at the moment that any  of  my 
starships  and  small craft have an agility of zero under  the  'real  rules', 
since I never provide excess power for the 'agility generators'.  Any  designs 
using thrust based acceleration figures also have a "Maneuver=X" notation,  so 
can  be read in standard format easily.  Despite discussion of the subject,  I 
have  used  no variant turret systems.  I have assumed that power  plants  are 
"load following", an assumption which is basically equivalent (in any but  the 
smallest starships) to the "booster plants" variation as discussed in  Travel-
ler's  Digest.   For  large ships, I felt that the  crew  values  artificially 
inflated command crews to no good purpose, so I used the same rule on  command 
crew as is used on bridge crew (if over ten, divide by ten and add ten).

Good Gaming,

Rob Dean
rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil




------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3032
Date:     Tue, 22 Oct 91 16:09:43 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Summary of Designs




For  the  morbidly  curious, the following is a  summary  of  the 
vehicle designs I have done, as currently organized in my  files.  
There  are about four recent designs that I know I have  not  yet 
uploaded.

     Mil      Civ                          Mil        Civ   
TL   Vehicles Vehicles Aircraft Watercraft Spacecraft Spacecraft Total
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
 4      -        -         -         3         -          -         3
 5      3        2         3         2         -          -        10
 6      1        6         3         6         -          -        16
 7      1        3         2         2         -          1         9
 8      9       10        10         2         -          8        39
 9     14        9         6         1         4          4        38
10     15       13         -         1         4          4        37
11      2        4         -         -         7          8        39
12      3        6         -         -         2          4        15
13      6        8         -         -        26          7        47
14      2        1         -         -         2          2         7
15      6        6         -         -        29         21        62
16      -        -         -         -         1          -         1
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Total  62       68        24        17        75         59       305

'Bubbles' in the counts are provided by attempts to design a planetary army at 
TL9,  a mercenary ground unit at TL10, a mercenary fleet, a  planetary  fleet, 
and  a Vargr corsair fleet at TL13, and a subsector fleet and a merchant  line 
at  TL15.  Most of my designs are pegged to a producing world in the  Glisten, 
District 268, Lunion or Sword Worlds subsectors of the Spinward Marches,  home 
to  all of my games.  The absence of high population TL12 and TL14  worlds  in 
this region (Sacnoth/Sword Worlds excepted) has a strong correlation with  the 
lower  quantities  of  designs at those tech levels.  After  all,  I'm  mostly 
designing  these things for my own use...posting them for the rest of  you  is 
gravy.

Regarding  variant  systems:  It can be assumed at the moment that any  of  my 
starships  and  small craft have an agility of zero under  the  'real  rules', 
since I never provide excess power for the 'agility generators'.  Any  designs 
using thrust based acceleration figures also have a "Maneuver=X" notation,  so 
can  be read in standard format easily.  Despite discussion of the subject,  I 
have  used  no variant turret systems.  I have assumed that power  plants  are 
"load following", an assumption which is basically equivalent (in any but  the 
smallest starships) to the "booster plants" variation as discussed in  Travel-
ler's  Digest.   For  large ships, I felt that the  crew  values  artificially 
inflated command crews to no good purpose, so I used the same rule on  command 
crew as is used on bridge crew (if over ten, divide by ten and add ten).

Good Gaming,

Rob Dean
rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil




------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3033
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1991 09:55 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Digest Group Pub

What ever happened to Manhunt I the Omnesium quest?

Was it relased and I just happened to be asleep at the time?
I know DGP moved recently, but there used to be half page ads
for this thing "coming SOON!" and I haven't heard a peep.

Has anyone had trouble with DGP's phone ordering system?
I've been waiting for a copy of MegaTrav Journal II for rather a
while.  The first time tried ordering it by phone I kept getting
their fax machine.  Rather frustrating when you are only a human
being who can't communicate in whistles, chirps and warbles.  (Maybe
if I were Ael Yael?)  A few days later, I tried again.  This time
I made it to the voice recording machine, only to have it cut off in
the middle of my order.  I called back and read off my order really
fast and I thought I had gotten it across before the machine cut me off
again.

But I figured from the 2 messages on the machine, both from me, what
would be a few seconds apart on the tape, they could figure it out.

They didn't.

This morning I tried agian.  The phone rang and rang, I could hear the
tone of the ringer changing as it was bounced from phone to phone.
Eventually, someone answered.  A HUMAN BEING!  I think I'll finally get
my copy now.

This is not the first screw up I've had in communicating with DGP.
I have 2 copies of MegaTrav Journal I to prove it.  (anybody wanna trade?)

What's that you say?  Order by mail?  Write a letter?

Hmmph!  What's the point in living in a TL 7-8 world if you gotta use
TL 1 communications?

Sigh,

Scott Kellogg
Beware of the SMaL

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed Oct 30 21:00:11 PST 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #247: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
3034  22-Oct-91 "Robert S. Dean"  More Horde, 40t Pinnaces << I won't guarantee
3035  24-Oct-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: Armors and thickness << > From: KELLOGG@d
3036  22-Oct-91 Richard Johnson   Strangeness in our Daily Lives << First, to J
3037  24-Oct-91 Orcinus orca      HP to Watts << Richard, nearly everything in 
3038  25-Oct-91 richard@oresoft.C A Strange Idea << If I (or someone) physicall
3039  25-Oct-91 Mark F. Cook      Re: A Strange Idea << > If I (or someone) phy
3040  25-Oct-91 jamesp             << Received: from wrgate.wr.tek.com by metol
3041  26-Oct-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Tranq for Stunners (Suggestion) << With the r
3042  26-Oct-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: HP to Watts << > From: Orcinus orca <joki
3043  26-Oct-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Wet Navy << I just looked a little more on th
3044  27-Oct-91 Wally Hartshorn   Wet Navy Errata << This was a message posted 
3045  28-Oct-91 Richard Johnson   Metric or Archaic? << John Kim: :> Richard, n
3046  29-Oct-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha ALMOST EMERGENCY << I guess that you know abo
3047  29-Oct-91 Richard Johnson   Silly Question About Time Zones << Here we ar
3048  29-Oct-91 richard@oresoft.C October 29 << *******************************
3049  29-Oct-91 TML Administrator Re: October 29 << richard@oresoft.COM (Richar
3050  24-Oct-91 Chuck.McKnight@f1 Ship Generator program << From: mcknight@f104
3051  30-Oct-91 grue@cs.uq.oz.au  Re: (3050) Ship Generator program << hi, Chuc
3052  30-Oct-91 kirsch@rhea.infor A simple question about skills << Here is a v

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3034
Date:     Tue, 22 Oct 91 17:05:36 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  More Horde, 40t Pinnaces

I won't guarantee that the following Horde designs don't contain my typo's.
If you spot any notify me, since I'll eventually put a thoroughly corrected
version of the entire Horde file in the archives.

Rob Dean




  CraftID: Pinnace Type K, TL9, MCr19.48
     Hull: 36/90, Disp=40, Config=4SL, Armor=40D, Unloaded=674t, 
           Loaded=994/976t
    Power: 5/9, Fusion=366.5MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 6/12, Maneuver=5 (StdGrav=3640t), MaxAccel=3.74, NOE=40kph,
           Cruise=750kph, Top=1000kph, Agility=3
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: AllWeatherRadar=Planetary, RadarDirectionFinder, Light Amp, 
           ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Imp
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+5
  Control: Computer=0*3, HUD*2, CompLink*286
    Accom: Crew=1, Seats=Roomy*2, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, basic ls, 
           extended ls, airlock
    Other: Fuel=65.96kl, Cargo=315/297kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint


  CraftID: Pinnace Type K, TL10, MCr22.3
     Hull: 36/90, Disp=40, Config=4SL, Armor=40E, Unloaded=689t,
           Loaded=982/964t
    Power: 5/10, Fusion=400MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 6/12, Maneuver=5 (StdGrav=3640t), MaxAccel=3.78, NOE=40kph,
           Cruise=750kph, Top=1000kph, Agility=3
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Continental, ActObjScan=Diff, 
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Form
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+5
  Control: Computer=0*3, HUD*2, DynLink*302
    Accom: Crew=1, Seats=Roomy*2, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, basic ls, 
           extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=72kl, Cargo=288/270kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint

  CraftID: Pinnace Type K, TL11, MCr23.2
     Hull: 36/90, Disp=40, Config=4SL, Armor=40E, Unloaded=752t,
           Loaded=1036/1018t
    Power: 5/10, Fusion=427MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 6/12, Maneuver=5 (Thrusters=3640t), MaxAccel=3.86, NOE=40kph,
           Cruise=750kph, Top=1000kph, Agility=3
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Continental, ActObjScan=Diff, 
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Form
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+5
  Control: Computer=0*3, HUD*2, DynLink*329
    Accom: Crew=1, Seats=Roomy*2, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, basic ls, 
           extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=77kl, Cargo=279/261kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint

  CraftID: Pinnace Type K, TL12, MCr22.1
     Hull: 36/90, Disp=40, Config=4SL, Armor=40F, Unloaded=716t,
           Loaded=1000/982t
    Power: 5/10, Fusion=426.8MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 6/12, Maneuver=5 (Thrusters=3640t), MaxAccel=4.00, NOE=40kph,
           Cruise=750kph, Top=1000kph, Agility=3
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Interplanetary, ActObjScan=Diff, 
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Rout
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+6
  Control: Computer=0*3, HUD*2, DynLink*316
    Accom: Crew=1, Seats=Roomy*2, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, basic ls, 
           extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=76.9kl, Cargo=279/261kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint

  CraftID: Pinnace Type K, TL13, MCr17.2
     Hull: 36/90, Disp=40, Config=4SL, Armor=40F, Unloaded=570t,
           Loaded=876/858t
    Power: 4/8, Fusion=426MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 6/12, Maneuver=5 (Thrusters=3640t), MaxAccel=4.48, NOE=40kph,
           Cruise=750kph, Top=1000kph, Agility=4
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Interplanetary, ActObjScan=Diff,
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Rout
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+6
  Control: Computer=0*3, HeadsUpHoloDisplay*2, HoloLink*2
    Accom: Crew=1, Seats=Roomy*2, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, basic ls,
           extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=85.2kl, Cargo=300/282kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint

  CraftID: Pinnace Type K, TL14, MCr16.9
     Hull: 36/90, Disp=40, Config=4SL, Armor=40G, Unloaded=484t,
           Loaded=790/772t
    Power: 4/8, Fusion=425.9MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 6/12, Maneuver=5 (Thrusters=3640t), MaxAccel=4.96G, NOE=40kph,
           Cruise=750kph, Top=1000kph, Agility=4
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Interplanetary, ActObjScan=Diff,
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Rout
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+6
  Control: Computer=0*3, HeadsUpHoloDisplay*2, HoloLink*2
    Accom: Crew=1, Seats=Roomy*2, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, basic ls, 
           extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=82.2kl, Cargo=300/282kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint

  CraftID: Pinnace Type K, TL15, MCr12.2
     Hull: 36/90, Disp=40, Config=4SL, Armor=40G, Unloaded=390t,
           Loaded=728/710t
    Power: 2/4, Fusion=426.5MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 6/12, Maneuver=5 (Thrusters=3640t), MaxAccel=5.49G, NOE=40kph,
           Cruise=750kph, Top=1000kph, Agility=5
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Interplanetary, ActObjScan=Diff,
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Rout
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+7
  Control: Computer=0*3, HeadsUpHoloDisplay*2, HoloLink*2
    Accom: Crew=1, Seats=Roomy*2, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, basic ls,
           extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=76.8kl, Cargo=332/314kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint

  CraftID: Pinnace Type K, TL16, MCr11.4
     Hull: 36/90, Disp=40, Config=4SL, Armor=40G, Unloaded=364t,
           Loaded=708t/690t
    Power: 2/4, Fusion=426.5MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 6/12, Maneuver=5 (Thrusters=3640t), MaxAccel=5.49G, NOE=40kph,
           Cruise=750kph, Top=1000kph, Agility=5
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Interplanetary, ActObjScan=Diff, 
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Rout
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+7
  Control: Computer=0*3, HeadsUpHoloDisplay*2, HoloLink*2
    Accom: Crew=1, Seats=Roomy*2, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, basic ls, 
           extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=73.2kl, Cargo=339/321kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint

  CraftID: Pinnace Type K, TL17, MCr11.9
     Hull: 36/90, Disp=40, Config=4SL, Armor=40H, Unloaded=306t,
           Loaded=651/633t
    Power: 2/4, Fusion=426.5MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 6/12, Maneuver=5 (Thrusters=3640t), MaxAccel=6.02, NOE=40kph,
           Cruise=750kph, Top=1000kph, Agility=6
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Interplanetary, ActObjScan=Diff,
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Rout
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+8
  Control: Computer=0*3, HeadsUpHoloDisplay*2, HoloLink*2
    Accom: Crew=1, Seats=Roomy*2, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, basic ls,
           extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=73.2kl, Cargo=339/321kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3035
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Re: Armors and thickness
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 91 12:00:45 MET

> From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
> By the way, have I interpreted the hull construction rules correctly as
> they state them?  According to the way I read it, steel, superdense, and
> coherant superdense all require the same thickness to give an equal amount
> of armored protection.  Thus a 1 centimeter thickness of steel will have
> the same strength as a 1 centimeter plate of coherant superdense, but the
> superdense will weigh much less.  If so, why is it called 'dense'?  It
> makes no sence to me.

  The armor level has no direct relation to thickness. What the rules mean are
that to reach a certain level of protection using superdense instead of steel
you will need much less metal because the greated strength of the superdense,
thus the lower weigh.

  In old Striker it was stated explicitely that the 'armor mult' figures for a 
certain armor factor equals the number of centimeters of hard steel needed to
get that armor factor. This was further modified by the now-so-called 'weight
modifier' on the hull materials table. Since hard steel have 1.0 in it and 
bonded superdense is 0.16 every 1cm of steel will equate 0.16mm of bonded
superdense.

  They apparently postulate that all materials will have the same density,
which is bogus science but a little less bogus that 1cm steel having the same
strengh as 1cm superdense but the superdense being lighter.

  (Looking at 'wet navy' in C53, it seems that that form of more bogus 
science has indeed snuck in the back way and become standard. Sigh! It would
be interesting to see what Terry McInnes would say if asked how his model
meshes with the one given in the Digest article about Radiation (which was
consistent with old Striker))

- -bertil-
- -- 
"ninetysix pretenders to the throne
 ninetysix pretenders to the throne
 shoot one down
 fight for the crown
 ninetyfive pretenders to the throne"

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3036
Subject: Strangeness in our Daily Lives
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 91 20:01:09 PDT
From: Richard Johnson <richard@agora.rain.COM>

First, to Jo Jaquinta:
I have failed to compile sysgen using turbo C and a 286PC (actually
a 2286 bridgboard -- Ami people will know the difference).  Perhaps
if I were not such a tyro with computers, I would be more able to
spread the good news.  Everything I've heard about Sysgen is good.
Maybe Carl would put it in compuserve or genie or wherever he is
for you?

Second: 
In yesterday's Portland Oregonian (daily newspaper) was an article
abouut a lady who was in a Piper Cub in Easter Oregon.  (This is
a 2-person airplane with a 65hp engine (sorry, I don't convert HP
to KW on the fly)-- the people sit tandem.)  The pilot, her dad,
died while they were flying.  She said a rosary while talking to 
the ghost of her dad, who told her what to do to land the plane.

She has had no flight training.
She succeeded and landed well.

This is a *real* feat.  Even for those of us who know how to fly
small planes.  ---You can't see anything out of the airplane 
from the back seat!--- no view of the runway, no altimeter, no
airspeed indicator, no turn and slip indicator, no compass.

Now - would you buy a character pulling this stunt in a game?
And you thought triangular jump grids were wierd...
- -- 
Richard Johnson     richard@oresoft.com      richard@agora.rain.com
Sue Congress!

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3037
Date:     Thu, 24 Oct 91 21:44:29 PDT
From: Orcinus orca <jokim@jarthur.Claremont.edu>
Subject:  HP to Watts

Richard, nearly everything in the aero- portion of the aerospace industry
is in english units.  Altitude is in feet, velocity is in mph or fps, fuel
is in pounds, and engines are horsepower or pounds of thrust.  The only
major aeronautical sector that uses metric is (was?) the Soviets.

But, here's a handy way to remember how to do hp <==> W conversions:

     In fourteen hundred and ninety two,
     Columbus sailed the ocean blue;
     Divide the son of a bitch by two,
     and you get the number of Watts in a horsepower.

(For the mathematically or poetically disinclined, 1492/2 = 746
which is about how many Watts are in 1 horsepower, 745.7 is exact)
- --
John H. Kim
jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu
uunet!jarthur!jokim

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3038
From: richard@oresoft.COM (Richard Johnson)
Subject: A Strange Idea
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 91 10:28:12 PDT

If I (or someone) physically draws deckplans of a ship (or ships),
does someone have a scanner they are willing to use "for the cause" to
make them electronically available?  Note that you'd also have to
provide a mailing address to the public.  This might be a privacy risk
you don't like.

If I (or someone) uses a CAD program to draw deckplans, what kinds of 
formats and/or conversions can we use to make them readily available?
AutoCAD uses DXF (I think), there are undoubtedly many more.  My
thinking right now is that HPGL might be the best way for this -- it's
strict ASCII, and a lot of different programs and plotters can use it.
I don't know about conversions though.

Finally, is anyone an artiste' capable of visualizing from deck plans
and producing an axonometric from them?
- -- 
Richard Johnson     richard@oresoft.com      richard@agora.rain.com
"Go tell Son-of-the-Morning-Star that we have found his village, and
that there are more Souix down there than all his soldiers have
bullets."             White-Man-Runs-Him -- Custer's chief Crow scout.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3039
From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
Subject: Re: A Strange Idea
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 91 10:46:00 PDT

> If I (or someone) physically draws deckplans of a ship (or ships),
> does someone have a scanner they are willing to use "for the cause" to
> make them electronically available?  Note that you'd also have to
> provide a mailing address to the public.  This might be a privacy risk
> you don't like.

Richard, I've got a scanner, for B&W or greyscale, so long as the original
doesn't exceed 8 1/2" x 11" in size.  As for a public mailing address, you
can hand-deliver the originals to me, and I can put the resultant files
in TML Anon. FTP site on Sunbane.  I assume the final files should be in
GIF format, since the TML survey last year indicated that was the most
commonly usable format by the readership.

> Finally, is anyone an artiste' capable of visualizing from deck plans
> and producing an axonometric from them?

You give me detailed specs. and I'll try to draw them.  God knows, I've
got enough horsepower at my disposal.

Later,
	- Mark C.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3040
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 91 13:00:24 PDT
From: jamesp (James T. Perkins)

Received: from wrgate.wr.tek.com by metolius.WR.TEK.COM (4.1/7.1)
	id AA00634; Fri, 25 Oct 91 12:53:12 PDT
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	id AA29479; Fri, 25 Oct 91 12:52:33 PDT
Date:     Fri, 25 Oct 91 15:51:36 EDT
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
To: traveller@metolius.WR.TEK.COM
Subject:  More Horde, 40t Slow Pinnaces
Message-Id:  <9110251551.aa24714@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>

I am resending this due to some network problems we had here in the last
few days.  As before, please notify me of any major errors seen so that
I can update the permanent file for the archives.

Rob Dean





  CraftID: Slow Pinnace Type KW, TL9, MCr9.83
     Hull: 36/90, Disp=40, Config=4SL, Armor=40D, Unloaded=423t, 
           Loaded=871/852t
    Power: 2/4, Fusion=123.5MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 2/4, Maneuver=2 (StdGrav=1300t), MaxAccel=1.53G, NOE=40kph,
           Cruise=750kph, Top=1000kph, Agility=1
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: AllWeatherRadar=Planetary, RadarDirectionFinder, Light Amp, 
           ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Imp
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+3
  Control: Computer=0*3, HUD*2, CompLink*66
    Accom: Crew=1, Seats=Roomy*2, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, basic ls, 
           extended ls, airlock
    Other: Fuel=23.9kl, Cargo=446/428kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint




  CraftID: Slow Pinnace Type KW, TL10, MCr12.8
     Hull: 36/90, Disp=40, Config=4SL, Armor=40E, Unloaded=440t, 
           Loaded=861/843t
    Power: 2/4, Fusion=169.2MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 2/4, Maneuver=2 (StdGrav=1300t), MaxAccel=1.55G, NOE=40kph,
           Cruise=750kph, Top=1000kph, Agility=1
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Continental, ActObjScan=Diff,
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Form
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+3
  Control: Computer=0*3, HUD*2, DynLink*129
    Accom: Crew=1, Seats=Roomy*2, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, basic ls, 
           extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=30.5kl, Cargo=419/401kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint




  CraftID: Slow Pinnace Type KW, TL11, MCr12.4
     Hull: 36/90, Disp=40, Config=4SL, Armor=40E, Unloaded=462t,
           Loaded=881/863t
    Power: 2/4, Fusion=178.4MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 2/4, Maneuver=2 (Thrusters=1300t), MaxAccel=1.63G, NOE=40kph, 
           Cruise=750kph, Top=1000kph, Agility=1
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Continental, ActObjScan=Diff, 
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Form
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+1
  Control: Computer=0*3, HUD*2, DynLink*122
    Accom: Crew=1, Seats=Roomy*2, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, basic ls, 
           extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=32.1kl, Cargo=416/398kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint




  CraftID: Slow Pinnace Type KW, TL12, MCr11.2
     Hull: 36/90, Disp=40, Config=4SL, Armor=40F, Unloaded=426t,
           Loaded=845/827t
    Power: 2/4, Fusion=178.2MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 2/4, Maneuver=2 (Thrusters=1300t), MaxAccel=1.70G, NOE=40kph, 
           Cruise=750kph, Top=1000kph, Agility=1
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Interplanetary, ActObjScan=Diff, 
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Rout
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+3
  Control: Computer=0*3, HUD*2, DynLink*132
    Accom: Crew=1, Seats=Roomy*2, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, basic ls, 
           extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=32kl, Cargo=416/398kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint




  CraftID: Slow Pinnace Type KW, TL13, MCr9.09
     Hull: 36/90, Disp=40, Config=4SL, Armor=40F, Unloaded=365t,
           Loaded=793/775t
    Power: 2/4, Fusion=177.7MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 2/4, Maneuver=2 (Thrusters=1300t), MaxAccel=1.77G, NOE=40kph, 
           Cruise=750kph, Top=1000kph, Agility=1
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Interplanetary, ActObjScan=Diff,
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Rout
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+3
  Control: Computer=0*3, HeadsUpHoloDisplay*1, HoloLink*1
    Accom: Crew=1, Seats=Roomy*2, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, basic ls, 
           extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=35.5kl, Cargo=425/407kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint




  CraftID: Slow Pinnace Type KW, TL14, MCr8.82
     Hull: 36/90, Disp=40, Config=4SL, Armor=40G, Unloaded=280t, 
           Loaded=708/690t
    Power: 2/4, Fusion=177.6MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 2/4, Maneuver=2 (Thrusters=1300t), MaxAccel=2.01G, NOE=40kph,
           Cruise=750kph, Top=1000kph, Agility=2
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Interplanetary, ActObjScan=Diff, 
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Rout
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+4
  Control: Computer=0*3, HeadsUpHoloDisplay*1, HoloLink*1
    Accom: Crew=1, Seats=Roomy*2, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, basic ls, 
           extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=35.5kl, Cargo=426/408kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint




  CraftID: Slow Pinnace Type KW, TL15, MCr 7.766
     Hull: 36/90, Disp=40, Config=4SL, Armor=40G, Unloaded=248t,
           Loaded=672/654t
    Power: 1/2, Fusion=252MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 2/4, Maneuver=2 (Thrusters=1300t), MaxAccel=2.14G, NOE=40kph, 
           Cruise=750kph, Top=1000kph, Agility=2
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Interplanetary, ActObjScan=Diff, 
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Rout
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+4
  Control: Computer=0*3, HeadsUpHoloDisplay*1, HoloLink*1
    Accom: Crew=1, Seats=Roomy*2, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, basic ls, 
           extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=45.4kl, Cargo=422/404kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint




  CraftID: Slow Pinnace Type KW, TL16, MCr7.31
     Hull: 36/90, Disp=40, Config=4SL, Armor=40G, Unloaded=232t,
           Loaded=658/640t
    Power: 1/2, Fusion=176.8MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 2/4, Maneuver=2 (Thrusters=1300t), MaxAccel=2.19G, NOE=40kph,
           Cruise=750kph, Top=1000kph, Agility=2
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Interplanetary, ActObjScan=Diff,
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Rout
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+4
  Control: Computer=0*3, HeadsUpHoloDisplay*1, HoloLink*1
    Accom: Crew=1, Seats=Roomy*2, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, basic ls, 
           extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=45.5kl, Cargo=423/405kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint




  CraftID: Slow Pinnace Type KW, TL17, MCr7.91
     Hull: 36/90, Disp=40, Config=4SL, Armor=40H, Unloaded=175t,
           Loaded=601/583t
    Power: 1/2, Fusion=176.8MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 2/4, Maneuver=2 (Thrusters=1300t), MaxAccel=2.4G, NOE=40kph, 
           Cruise=750kph, Top=1000kph, Agility=2
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Interplanetary, ActObjScan=Diff, 
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Rout
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+4
  Control: Computer=0*3, HeadsUpHoloDisplay*1, HoloLink*1
    Accom: Crew=1, Seats=Roomy*2, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, basic ls, 
           extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=45.5kl, Cargo=423/405kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint



------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3041
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Tranq for Stunners (Suggestion)
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 91 11:03:15 MET

  With the reservation that I have deleted this from my account here at
Chalmers, so it is from memory:

  In my latest campaign I had one base type of tranq and three add-on 
characteristics for it: Dose control, Cocktail and Broadspectrum.

  'Standard' tranq only worked on a single metabolic system, had no guarantee 
that it wouldn't kill by overdose even those it was optimised for, had 
unpredictable effects on all others and was cheap and lowtech. It is sold for
all major races Imperiumwide, and for common minor races in a sector, and for 
uncommon ditto within a subsector (unless the race in question is planetbound).

  Dose control removes the danger of overdose. It is an add-on that multiplies
the cost of the tranq by two and available on TL11 and up ('?' for the TL). It
also removes the chance of too low a dose for beings with very large masses.

  Cocktail has guaranteed effect for less than a dozen races, and unpredictable 
on all others. Most versions sold encompass the major races and a few local
ones. It's cost-multiplier is 3 and it's TL 13 (or 14?).

  And finally, Broadspectrum has guaranteed effect on one metabolic system and
a straight 30%+ chance of working on other metabolic systems. It is only
available on TL 15 (TL16 for percentages over 50%) and it's cost is based on
the percentage of effectiveness. The multiplier is 3 plus one for each 10% over
30% (maximum percentage is 90%). Against beings originating on planets with
atmosphere-codes 0-1 and A+ it has lower chance of working: -50% for 0, 
- -30% for 1, -30% for A, -50% for B and -80% for C. Add Referee-imposed
penalties to taste.

  In this system, people could walk in to a gun-shop and buy, for example,
"Dosecontrol, Cocktail against all major, Ael-Yael, Prt' and Newts, 
 Broadspectrum 90% agains the rest"...
  ...if they were on TL16 and were willing to shell out for something that costs
54 times what normal 'dumb' tranq costs.

  And then we had the normal multipliers for tranq-gas, persistent or non-
persistent, and with different ability to prenetrate masks and mopp-suits, and
all that:)

  (As for the PBEM, I suggest that the tranq carried is Dosecontrol, Cocktail
against all majors and those local to Hinterworlds, and Broadspectrum 30%.)

- -bertil-
- -- 
"ninetythree prentenders to the throne
 ninetythree prentenders to the throne
 shoot one down
 fight for the crown
 ninetytwo prentenders to the throne"

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3042
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Re: HP to Watts
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 91 11:21:52 MET

> From: Orcinus orca <jokim@jarthur.Claremont.edu>
> Subject: (3037)  HP to Watts
> 
> Richard, nearly everything in the aero- portion of the aerospace industry
> is in english units.  Altitude is in feet, velocity is in mph or fps, fuel
> is in pounds, and engines are horsepower or pounds of thrust.  The only
> major aeronautical sector that uses metric is (was?) the Soviets.

  However, the Swedish AF uses metrics even on the altimeters, while the civil
aviation uses feets and stuff.

  An interesting side-effect of this is that some of the SK-60 jet-trainers
that are cleared to land on civilian fields have two altimeters, one in meters
and one in feets....

  (A friend in the terminal room claims that Saab uses metrics in it's aviation
sector too, which I cannot confirm. I have however seen construction drawings
for a/c's built by Saab done in metrics..)

> John H. Kim

- -bertil-
- -- 
"ninetytwo pretenders to the throne
 ninetytwo pretenders to the throne
 shoot one down
 fight for the crown
 ninetyone pretenders to the throne"

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3043
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Wet Navy
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 91 16:30:55 MET

  I just looked a little more on the wet navy article, and found out that
the armorsystem of it is horrendous.

  One can get the *correct* values for the weight mod column by dividing the
weight mod by the hardness mod. The reason why wood then will seem to weigh 
much more than steel, is that to get a equal level of protection you'll have
to have much more wood, since the wood is so much softer.

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3044
Subject: Wet Navy Errata
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 91 0:31:07 CDT
From: Wally Hartshorn <samsung!athenanet.com!wally@uunet.UU.NET>

     This was a message posted by Terry McInnes on GEnie's "Scorpia" games
round table.

 Category 11,  Topic 38
 Message 201       Mon Oct 21, 1991
 T.MCINNES2 [T.MCINNES2]      at 09:48 EDT

James Kundert had some questions about Wet Navy Part # in  Challenge #53.  Here
are the answers plus a copy of a  letter to GDW requesting an errata to correct
some  typographical errors in the published copy

James,
 At last, a moment to respond to your bulletin board item.
 Page 22:  Yes, Diesel engines have no scale efficiency, and steam engines one
scale efficiency.
 Page 22-23  Its a ratio (in all cases, not just MHD tunnel drives) of weight
to meters in diameter and volume (in kiloliters) to meters in diameter,
although volume is not necessary except in tunnel drive systems.  Would have
loved to include an example but space was tight, extremely tight.
 Page 23- Sails:   50% of the mast height is the total yardarm span limit.
 You're right about the maximum fore and aft sail area. Although, further
testing suggests this may be too limiting.  It doesn't allow for very large
jibs, for instance.
 Page 24, the sail power table-- Yep, you're right, I should have included a
kg/meter column to make the transition easier.
 Page 24, the formulae: V2should beV squared.  The R formula  should be R= sqrt
(D)* rf (theresistance factor from the hull type  table.)
 Page 25, Superstructures:  That's an abbreviated version of the hull damage
point calc, only determining the destroyed level because I don't think you can
render a superstructure inoperable, but you sure can destroy it.  It relates to
combat rules and hit location tables yet to come, Michelle and Challenge
readers willing.

 As information, hereis the text of the letter I sent to Michelle  after
reading thePart 1 galley proofs:

 "Dear Michelle:
 I received the galley proofs for Wet Navy Part 1 yesterday afternoon and
checked them this morning.  I found a couple of areas where changes were needed
and tried to phone you at the office this morning.  However, the person I spoke
with said Challenge #53 was at the printers.
 These are the changes that are needed:
 Page 19, first paragraph:  You had changed the copy to read "Select a hull
size from the UCP column in the MegaTraveller basic hull design section of the
Small Craft Hull Table..."  This is incorrect, you can select a hull size from
any of the three hull size tables in the basic hull design section.  Wet
Vessels can be (and often are) as large as starships.
 Page 19, third paragraph:  "MegaTraveller Small Craft Hull Table."  Again, any
of the three tables can be used.
 Page 21 "Powered Ships" section third paragraph beginning "Calculate Hull
Resistance: Use the formula R=CDxrf..."  the formula should read R=(sqrt
(D))*rf.  The parentheses were  dropped. These are needed to make sure that
only the square root of D is extracted then multiplied by rf when calculating
R.  Otherwise a reader may multiply D times rf then extract the square root of
result which is incorrect.
 Page 23  "Sail Area" section, second paragraph, third sentence beginning "
Maximum mast height..."  Should read "Maximum mast height in meters equals the
square root of a hull's volume in kiloliters."; inserting "hull's" between "a"
and "volume".
 Page 24  The potential speed formula is incorrect.  You have it as V2=P2/R.
It should be V2=P2/R, that is V squared = (P*2)/R.

 (For clarification:  The power formula is P = R(V squared)/2. The velocity
formula is V Squared = (P times 2)/ R.)

 Page 24  The resistance formula is missing its parentheses. Should be R=(sqrt
(D)) * rf.  See my comments above.
 If at all possible, please publish at least the errata concerning the formulae
in Challenge #54.  If readers use the formulae as stated in #53 they will get
incorrect results.  Thanks in advance,
       Terry McInnes"

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3045
Subject: Metric or Archaic?
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 91 5:53:39 PST
From: Richard Johnson <richard@agora.rain.COM>

John Kim:
:> Richard, nearly everything in the aero- portion of the aerospace industry
:> is in english units.  Altitude is in feet, velocity is in mph or fps, fuel
:> is in pounds, and engines are horsepower or pounds of thrust.  The only
:> major aeronautical sector that uses metric is (was?) the Soviets.

Bertil::
:  However, the Swedish AF uses metrics even on the altimeters, while the civil
:aviation uses feets and stuff.


My understanding that the units in use (the ones pilots gets to use, rather
than the ones the engineers use) are metric everywhere except the good
ol' (obvious name of north American nation deleted).  Consequently,
all international pilots need toknow both.

However English is supposed to be the "standard" language for commo...

- -- 
Richard Johnson     richard@oresoft.com      richard@agora.rain.com
Sue Congress!

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3046
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: ALMOST EMERGENCY
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 91 10:33:12 MET

  I guess that you know about my deckplan-files in postscript? I done those
by using a little known feature of the mac that enables every program to
produce a encapsulated postrscript file and then run it through a PD
program that makes it compatible with non-apple printers.

  My 'little' problem is that, suddenly, this has stopped working. No matter how
hard I try no postscript file appear. And if I can't make it work I have no
way of distributing any deckplan files...

  Now, I know that I had several long email conversations with people on the 
TML about how this was done, and I even mailed the PD program to someone 
togeather with instructions on how to make the mac produce postscript files.

  I'd like to get in touch with that person (whos name I've forgotten:( or
anyone else who knows how to make a mac produce postscript. Since I've forgotten
exactly how I did it I cannot determine if it is the computer that behaves
contrarywise or just that I'm doing it wrong.

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3047
Subject: Silly Question About Time Zones
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 91 5:24:20 PST
From: Richard Johnson <richard@agora.rain.COM>

Here we are on Terra, flower of humaniti.  (Maybe it's a poppy,
buut that's another topic.)  My question deals with the Prime
Meridian, and with the time zone associated with it.

Does the "prime" (what's its real name?) time zone extend from
7 deg, 30min E to 7, 30 W -- or does it go from 0, 0 to 15 (E|W)?

Do those of you wholive in this time zone get "daylight savings"
time in the summer?

And a side question -- Do you Aussies get to be two hours off
from the rest of the world because you're on savings when the
norther hemisphere is not, anc vice-versa?
- -- 
Richard Johnson     richard@oresoft.com      richard@agora.rain.com
Sue Congress!

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3048
From: richard@oresoft.COM (Richard Johnson)
Subject: October 29
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 91 7:16:08 PST

*********************************************************************
			  HOORAY!!!!
*********************************************************************
Our glorious tamer of wild aliases and TML creator/administrator/and
shoulder-to-cry-on TODAY celebrates the completion of his first
quarter century of life on Earth!

All Hail James Perkins, a cornerstone in the early foundations of
a global community of sci-fi RPG.
*********************************************************************
p.s. the pbem gets this as well as the TML, 'caus I don't trust James
not to trash it before it's seen.  :=)
- -- 
Richard Johnson     richard@oresoft.com      richard@agora.rain.com
"Sir, she gave me what could be considered a very passionate kiss in
the torpedo bay."  

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3049
Subject: Re: October 29 
From: TML Administrator <traveller-request@metolius.WR.TEK.COM>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 91 08:19:08 PST


richard@oresoft.COM (Richard Johnson) writes:
> [James] TODAY celebrates the completion of his first
> quarter century of life on Earth!

Thanks, but you're WRONG! My birthday was YESTERDAY, October 28.  I am
of the 1965 vintage.  Besides, the next quarter century I want to spend
on Regina. :-P

> All Hail...

AW, C'MON! GIVE ME A BREAK!!! I did it because I loved Traveller and
wanted to know if it was dead yet, after I came back from college life.
Boy, was I mistaken.  289 TML subscribers?! I also didn't expect for the
list to grow into a social, world-spanning community.  People have met
new friends through the TML who have helped them through difficult as
well as happy times.  I count that as the biggest reward of the creation
of the TML.

> p.s. the pbem gets this as well as the TML, 'caus I don't trust James
> not to trash it before it's seen.  :=)

Wise of you to do this.  I would have nuked it if it had been sent only
to the TML.  Glennis put you up to this, didn't she??? :-)

James
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Traveller Mailing List Administrator	     James T Perkins @ Tektronix, Inc
traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com	     Beaverton, Oregon, USA
    "How many ancients can dance on the head of a pin?" - Scott Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3050
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 91 08:19:22 CDT
From: Chuck.McKnight@f104.n541.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Chuck McKnight)
Subject: Ship Generator program

From: mcknight@f104.n170.z1.fidonet.org
Date: Oct 24 1991 08:16:21
Subject: ship generator

I'm porting Paul Dale's ship generator to MSDOS and wondered if
anyone else has been successful doing so.  I've compiled it both as a
real mode program and as a protected mode program and damned if
building the table still doesn't run out of memory (I've got 3 Meg of
extended memory enabled and though that should handle it).  Any ideas?

Thanks in advance.

Chuck McKnight
mcknight@f104.n170.z1.fidonet.org

- --  
Chuck McKnight - via FidoNet node 1:170/500
UUCP: tusun2.mcs.utulsa.edu!tinylk!541!104!Chuck.McKnight
INTERNET: Chuck.McKnight@f104.n541.z1.FIDONET.ORG

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3051
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 91 16:56:32+1100
From: grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Subject: Re: (3050) Ship Generator program

hi,

Chuck McKinght says:

>I'm porting Paul Dale's ship generator to MSDOS and wondered if
>anyone else has been successful doing so.  I've compiled it both as a
>real mode program and as a protected mode program and damned if
>building the table still doesn't run out of memory (I've got 3 Meg of
>extended memory enabled and though that should handle it).  Any ideas?

I've just checked the program and assuming that shorts are 16 bit and longs
are 32 (and chars are 8 and doubles are 64).  The database is 1751 lines long
(excluding both blank lines and comments) and each line will expand to
166/168 bytes (depending upon alignment problems).  This is something 'round
about 300k which should easily fit into your available memory.  The only
other problems that might arise are due to the wonderful segmentation present
on certain intel processors.  Have you declared the table pointer to be of
type FAR *?  Are you calling the version of malloc/realloc that gets passed
a 32 bit (man sized) integer size argument?

The table is far larger than the 64k available in a single segment so you MUST
compile using a large memory model, but sometimes that isn't enough...you might
have to have to go to a special memory model that supports objects bigger than
64k [ I don't remember what silly name is used for this model, it has been a
while since I was programming on a MSDOS machine ].

Another way to reduce the memory usage would be to change the definition of
REAL so it is float not double, this will reduce the memory used by each record
to a more manageable level of 114/116 bytes (about 200k now).  Stripping the
database is also possible, all the supa-tech stuff (TL>15) could be removed as
could a lot of the 'useless' sensors and quite a lot of the weaponary related
stuff.  In the comments in the database you will see a way to change the turret
allocations so that individual weapons not turrets are allocated this will save
a fair bit of space.  A final way to reduce the memory usage would be to reduce
the length of the name field in the table (50 chars is a big excessive), you
could figure out the longest name and use that size or reduce the name lengths
throughout the file.  

If you have any problems with any of the above, contact me and I'll try to help
out.  I'd also be interested in seeing any changes you have to make to the
program to get it working on a yukky machine (not that I am biassed or
anything :-)


        						Pauli

Paul Dale               | Internet/CSnet:            grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Dept of Computer Science| Bitnet:       grue%cs.uq.oz.au@uunet.uu.net
Uni of Queensland       | JANET:           grue%cs.uq.oz.au@uk.ac.ukc
Australia, 4072         | EAN:                          grue@cs.uq.oz
                        | UUCP:           uunet!munnari!cs.uq.oz!grue
f4e6g4Qh4++             | JUNET:                     grue@cs.uq.oz.au

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3052
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1991 14:38:02 EST
From: kirsch@rhea.informatik.uni-bonn.de
Subject: A simple question about skills

Here is a very simple question:

How can I achieve the skill "Fleet Tactics" ? I haven't found a
way to get it, it is not included in a cascade skill nor in
the skills tables.

Juergen

P.S.: I only use the basic character generation ! Please tell me,
      if the skill is reachable only by the extended generation
      system.

- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Juergen Kirsch
Institut fuer Informatik, Universitaet Bonn
Germany
kirsch@rhea.informatik.uni-bonn.de

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

From jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com Mon Nov  4 00:43:03 1991
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To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin), bfwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Raven Blackburn),
        anthony@cs.pitt.edu (Michael Anthony Kapolka),
        mcknight@f104.n170.z1.fidonet.org (Chuck McKnight),
        fantasci!traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (Joseph "Jo" E Poplawski),
        jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com (James T. Perkins)
Subject: TML Bundle #248: Msgs 3052-3059
Reply-To: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Precedence: bulk
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 91 21:00:15 PST
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com>
Status: R


TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun Nov  3 21:00:10 PST 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #248: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
3053  30-Oct-91 Robert S. Dean    A few more vehicles... << Akian Skyguard Ligh
3054  30-Oct-91 Orcinus orca      How far does artifical gravity work? << How f
3055  30-Oct-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN Re: How far does artifical gravity work? << T
3056  31-Oct-91 Hans Rancke-Madse Re: Timezones. << Richard Johnson asks: > > H
3057  31-Oct-91 uunet!popeet!wild Miscellanea from Wildstar << Rumor Central Pe
3058  31-Oct-91 Robert S. Dean    More stuff... << Griffin Island Weasel Light 
3059  31-Oct-91 Robert S. Dean    Ramblings... << RANDOM ENCOUNTERS or A few th
3060  31-Oct-91 Robert S. Dean    First Battle type Boardgame? << I just starte

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3053
Date:     Wed, 30 Oct 91 13:36:27 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  A few more vehicles...

Akian Skyguard Light Armored Vehicle TL9

     The Skyguard is a wheeled light armored vehicle intended for air defense 
and point defense operations.  It is used by the ground-mobile forces of the 
Akian army, and it is also exported in moderate numbers.  The Sea League 
(Overnale) is known to have a number in service. Most of the power plant 
capacity is dedicated to the laser, and endurance can be increased by a 
factor of about three if no combat power is required.

  CraftID: Skyguard Point Defense LAV, TL9, Cr822,800
     Hull: 2/5, Disp=3, Config=4USL+turret(10%), Armor=20D, Unloaded=25.8t, 
           Loaded=30.7t
    Power: 1/2, MHD=14.4MW, Dur=10 hours
     Loco: 1/2, Wheels=8, P/W=130, Road=224kph, Offroad=67kph
     Comm: Radio=Continental(5000km), LaserComm=VDist(50km), 
           MaserComm=VDist(50km) 
  Sensors: 2*Headlights, Laser Sensor, Advanced Image Enhancement, 
           RadarJammer=VDist, AllWeatherRadar=Regional, ActObjScan=Diff,
           ActObjPin=Diff
      Off: Hardpoints=1, Weapon stabilized, 100kph

                  Pen/         Max        Auto   Dngr
                  Attn   Dmg   Range      Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
10MW Pulse Laser  30/3    10  VDist(25km)  3     -       H     80

      Def: Point Defense Targeting for laser, SmokeDischargers*6,
           AntiLaserAerosol*20
  Control: Comp Mod0*1, CompLink*18
    Accom: Crew=4 (Driver, Gunner, Commander, Sensor Operator), 
           Seats=Roomy*4, Env=basic env, basic ls
    Other: Fuel=4.2kl, Cargo=0.7kl, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Moderate

Sea League Model 135 Scout Sled TL9

     The Model 135 is produced locally by the Sea League (Overnale) from a 
standard Imperial Data Package.  Intended for reconnaissance and patrol du-
ties, it can carry a total of five crew members for situations which might 
requirement the capability to dismount a foot patrol.  
     Like all grav vehicles, the Model 135's performance is fairly sensitive 
to weight changes.  Unloading half of the fuel, all of the 4cm ammunition and 
all cargo gives the craft 1.5Gs of useful thrust, allowing speeds of up to 
1680kph.

  CraftID: Model 135 Scout Sled, TL9, Cr170,600
     Hull: 2/5, Disp=2, Config=1AF, Armor=8D, Loaded=11.4t,
           Unloaded=6.9t
    Power: 1/2, MHD Turbine=2.4MW, Dur=20 hrs
     Loco: 1/2, StdGrav=20t, MaxSpeed=900kph, Cruise=675kph, NOE=130kph,
           MaxAccel=0.75G
     Comm: Radio=Continental(5000), LaserComm=VDist(50), MaserComm=VDist(50)
  Sensors: 2*Headlights, Passive IR, Light Amplification, 
           AllWeatherRadar=VDist(50), ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff
      Off: Hardpoints=1

                      Pen/         Max    Auto   Dngr
           Ammo  Rds  Attn   Dmg   Range  Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
4cm Auto   KEAP  800   15     6   Dist(5)  4      -      H    160
            HE    -     7     8   Dist(5)  4      10     H    160

      Def: Smoke*6, AntiLaserAerosol*20
  Control: Electronic*30
    Accom: Crew=3 (Commander,Driver, Gunner), Passengers=2, Seats=Adequate*5,
           Env=basic env, basic ls
    Other: Fuel=2.1kl, Cargo=0.8kl, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Moderate

Light Passenger Flyer TL9

     This vehicle can be built from readily available standard data packages, 
and is assembled locally on innumerable TL9 planets under a variety of trade-
names, usually associated with the concept of speed.  It is intended for 
rapid transportation of people, and has a very limited cargo capacity in 
order to keep the weight down (and the speed up.)  Because the controls and 
sensors are simple, and no capability for remote automatic handling by a 
traffic network is included, most planets and governments require some sort 
of pilot's license before allowing operation of this class of vehicle.

  CraftID: Light Passenger Flyer, TL9, Cr14,783
     Hull: 1/2, Disp=1, Config=4SL, Armor=1D, Unloaded=1.24t, Loaded=1.8t
    Power: 1/2, MHD Turbine=0.4MW, Dur=10hrs
     Loco: 1/2, StdGrav=3t, MaxSpeed=800kph, Cruise=600kph, NOE=40kph
     Comm: Radio=Dist(5km)
  Sensors: 2*Headlights, Radar=Dist(5km), ActObjScan=Form, ActObjPin=Form
      Off: Hardpoints=1, No weapons installed
      Def: -
  Control: Elec*3
    Accom: Crew=1 (Driver), Seats=Adequate*4, Env=basic env
    Other: Fuel=0.175kl, Cargo=0.38kl, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Moderate

Cavalier Armored Car TL6

     The Cavalier is an armored scout car with a limited combat capability, 
intended for reconnaissance and police or paramilitary duties.  The vehicle's 
armor is only intended to withstand small arms and machine gun fire.  Manu-
facturing information for the Cavalier is available as an Imperial Data 
Package, and they can be found on numerous low tech worlds throughout the 
Imperium (and beyond).

  CraftID: Cavalier Armored Car, TL6, Cr30,036
     Hull: 2/3, Disp=1, Config=4USL+turret(30%), Armor=10B, Unloaded=12.14t,
           Loaded=13.54t
    Power: 1/2, ImpIntComb=0.8MW, Dur=20hrs
     Loco: 1/2, Wheels=6, P/W=59, Road=123kph, Offroad=37kph
     Comm: Radio=VDist(50km)
  Sensors: 2*Headlights, Passive IR
      Off: Hardpoints=1

                           Pen/         Max    Auto   Dngr
                Ammo  Rds  Attn   Dmg   Range  Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
     4cm HV Gun  HE   150    5     8  Dist(5)   -      -      M    15  
                KEAP   -    14     6  Dist(5)   -      -      M    15  
          HMG    -   1000   6/3    3 VLong(1.5) 3      -      H    80

      Def: SmokeDischargers*8
  Control: EnhancedMech*5
    Accom: Crew=3 (Driver,Gunner,Commander), Seats=Cramped*3,
           Env=Basic env
    Other: Fuel=1.0kl, Cargo=0.3kl, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Moderate

Buffalo Light Track TL8

     The Buffalo is a common small tracked vehicle which can be produced from 
a readily available Imperial Data Package.  It provides a basic offroad cargo 
and passenger transport capability at a fairly low price.  The high fuel 
efficiency MHD turbine power plant helps to keep operating costs down.  The 
Buffalo is frequently modified, with common modifications including addition 
of folding seats for the cargo compartment, removal or downsizing of passen-
ger seats (for added cargo space), addition of extra fuel tanks, and addition 
of dozer blades, light cranes and similar pieces of equipment,

  CraftID: Buffalo Light Track, TL8, Cr15,085
     Hull: 2/5, Disp=2, Config=4USL, Armor=2B, Unloaded=9.12t, Loaded=14.23t
    Power: 1/2, MHD Turbine=0.8MW, Dur=20hrs
     Loco: 1/2, Tracks, P/W=56, Road=145kph, Offroad=87kph
     Comm: Radio=VDist(50)
  Sensors: 2*Headlights
      Off: Hardpoints=1
      Def: -
  Control: Electronic*3
    Accom: Crew=1 (Driver), Passengers=3, Seats=Roomy*4, Env=basic env
    Other: Fuel=0.7kl, Cargo=4.4kl, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Moderate

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3054
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 91 10:35:02 PST
From: Orcinus orca <jokim@jarthur.Claremont.edu>
Subject: How far does artifical gravity work?

How far does the artificial gravity generated by a grav plate work?
I mean, if it extends as far as normal gravity, you've got a potential
terrorist weapon against an entire planet:  Give up or we'll turn on
a large anti-gravity field and blow your entire atmosphere into space.
- --
John H. Kim
jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu
uunet!jarthur!jokim

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3055
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 91 15:37:53 EST
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: Re:  How far does artifical gravity work?

This was an interesting problem I had to deal with in the game I was writing.
I assume that in Traveller, antigrav is inverse-squared, like regular
gravity. This is OK, because you can't build an efficient grav system
for more than one gee for any significant mass. For my game, where wormholes
were used for star travel, you could swallow a star system with such a 
device.

metlay

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3056
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Timezones.
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 91 10:24:55 MET

Richard Johnson asks:
>
> Here we are on Terra, flower of humaniti.  (Maybe it's a poppy,
> buut that's another topic.)  My question deals with the Prime
> Meridian, and with the time zone associated with it.
>
> Does the "prime" (what's its real name?) time zone extend from
> 7 deg, 30min E to 7, 30 W -- or does it go from 0, 0 to 15 (E|W)?

In principle 7 1/2 E to 7 1/2 W, but the desire to have all of a
country share the same time (unless the country is real big) makes for
some strange twists. Spain, which is practically directly below the
British Isles, nevertheless keeps to CET (that's zone +1), while
Portugal keeps GMT (zone 0). The bit of western Africa that pokes into
zone -1 keeps GMT too. Iceland, which is practically all in zone -1
(with a little bit poking into zone -2) strangely enough keeps GMT too.
All of Norway keeps CET, even the bit which is directly above Finland.
Finland keeps Eastern European (zone +2), as does the Balkans, but
Germany, Austria and Poland keeps CET, which meant that when you cross
into Russia you jump two hours, from +1 to +3. China sticks to one time
for the whole country despite straddling thrree timezones.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3057
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 91 00:17:04 EST
From: uunet!popeet!wildstar@sequent.UUCP (Derek Wildstar)
Subject: Miscellanea from Wildstar


Rumor Central
 
Perhaps this is old news to everyone here; if so, I apologise for the wasted
bandwidth.  However, it was news to me ...
 
Yesterday (Tuesday the 29th) I called GDW, and in the course of my conversation
with their phone-answering person (whose name I did not have the presence of
mind to ask for), he mentioned that I ought to submit a written proposal, but
he didn't know to whose attention it should be marked, because "Marc Miller
handles that now, but he will be leaving us soon, and I don't know who is going
to take over".  I *DID* have the presence of mind to ask where Marc was going;
the answer was "He will be starting his own company".  When I asked what he
will be doing, I was told "I really shouldn't say, but it is not game-related. 
It is not a game company".  So, I wonder what this means to Traveller, and what
Marc will be doing at his new company ...
 
 
More Rumors
 
Recently, someone asked what was going on at DGP.  In a conversation with the
sales clerk at Dream Wizards (one of the local gaming stores; good selection,
list prices or a little higher), I asked if the Solomani/Aslan module was out
yet.  There was a pause while he asked Tom Peters (yes, the same Tom Peters
that is a Technical Editor for DGP), who also happens to work at Dream Wizards.
 There was maniacal laughter.  And no idea when it would be on the shelves (its
been in the "Real Soon Now" stage for a couple of months now).
 
About a month ago, I sent them a big envelope with a bunch of things in it. 
There was a request for the current MegaTraveller Errata (so that I could
compare it to the GDW MegaTraveller Errata; yes, the two differ).  I also asked
for a copy of the updated Domain of Deneb stats, and provided a *HUGE* envelope
with *LOTS* of postage, clearly labelled "Errata and DoD Stats".  I also sent a
rather long letter in which I described what I wanted and asked a rather large
lot of questions and pointed out some suspected  errata.  I also enclosed a
small envelope with a more reasonable amount of  postage on it, labelled
"Answers to Questions", in case anyone at DGP felt  like scrawling brief
answers on my letter and sending it back to me.
 
I got back two copies of the MegaTraveller Errata, one in the large envelope,
and one in the small envelope.  On the back of the small envelope was a hastily
scribbled message from Patty Fugate, wondering if I was the same long-lost Guy
Garnett that she had once met at Origins (yes, I am). At least I know that
someone read some part of what I sent ...
 
 
CARP and the LIBRARY Program
 
I FTP'd Jo Jaquinta's LIBRARY program and have had a chance to play with it for
a few hours.  It does quite a few very impressive things (well done, Jo!)
Although I haven't tried it in a gaming session (I can't find anyone in the 
Washington DC area who wants to play Traveller) I have some doubts as to its
utility as an on-line referee's aid.  Please note (especially Jo!) that these
items reflect my own predjudices at least as much as anything else.
 
First off, there seems to be no easy way to edit or alter the details that the
program generates for you; as a referee, I would want to be able to do this in
order to tailor a world to my universe or the current plotline.  I've been
known to vary the published UWP stats for the Spinward Marches by up to +/- 2
points.  (Oh, Crumbs!  He changed the Law Level.  Be quiet, Penfold!)
 
More minor quibbles include the terse sector and sub-sector displays; picking
the subsector or world that I was interested in became quite a challenge at
times (especially at that stage where I had only half of the subsectors named).
 A better way to do this one would be to make a way to "walk" the subsector map
and display the mainworld stats.  Pressing <ENTER> on the subsector display
would then call up the system stats display.  Trying to figure out system names
from the first four letters, and then typing in the hex location, is for the
birds!  (Right, DM?  Good Grief, Yes!)
 
 
Those Frigates
 
Ameer is right; I neglected to compute agility reductions for the Black Globe. 
However, I did include the globe's protection in calculating damage to the
target craft.
 
Personally, I've never thought much of Traveller's treatment of Globe Screens. 
If the globe can be flickered, it should be possible to synchronize it with the
firing of the spinal mount.  I doubt it would be feasable to synchronize the
flicker to the firing of all the mounts on the ship, though.  On the other
hand, it should be possible to arrange the firing of pulse lasers and plasma
and fusion guns to coincide with flicker (in other words, synch some of the
weapons to the globe, rather than synch the globe to the weapons).
 
One change which should be made to the frigates is to re-organize the laser
batteries.  If you use the standard rules, batteries cannot be reconfigured
except by overhauling the ship.  Therefore, the batteries should be organized
for maximum UCP factor; change the UCP rating of the lasers to "xx9" and divide
the number of batteries and batteries bearing by 10 (round fractions up).  If
whoever collects such things would like a corrected UCP, I would be happy to
send them out; otherwise I won't waste the bandwidth (I waste enough as it is).
 
I didn't manage to install a factor-9 meson screen on a sub-10,000-ton ship and
still manage to install jump drives, maneuver drives, a spinal weapon of at
least mid-size, agility-6, and at least 15 days endurance.  If you have such a
design, I would like to see it; there is still a good chance that there are
bugs in my spreadsheet.
 
Designing battleriders or system-defense montors (in both cases, they are
non-starships; typically large craft) is another matter entirely.  Without the
expense of a jump drive (and the volume of its required fuel), the ship can be
smaller and more cost-effective.
 
The battleships-vs-battleriders debate can be an interesting subject; which one
is superior depends a lot more on long-range tactical and strategic  concerns
than anything else.  The best possible tactics a battleship can use when faced
with battleriders is to disengage by jumping.  If this is not possible,
threaten the carrier and do as much damage as possible before they get you. 
For riders agains a battleship, try to inflict as much damage as possible
before they jump out, and keep as much distance as possible between the enemy
and your carriers (its a long way to walk home ...).
 
 
The Attraction of Odd Tech Levels
 
Tech Levels 13 and 15 are very attractive for starship designs because the
break points for fusion power plants fall at these tech levels.  The size and
fuel consumption of the power plant being one of the driving factors in many
ship designs.  In addition, turreted laser and missile systems have a break
point at TL 13.  Other factors have breakpoints at other tech levels (for
example, hulls at TLs 12 and 14) but these are typically of less impact on the
final design of the ship.
 
>From a cost-efficency standpoint, it is usually more effective to design a ship
to the lowest TL where the required equipment can be had.  This is mostly due
to the (rather silly, in my opinion) way in which the Control Points are
calculated (CP = MCrPrice * 10 * TL).  Higher tech items have higher control
requirements, and therefore require bigger computers, more control panels, and
more crew.
 
 
Porting Programs
 
When porting programs to MsDOS, my company has occasionally had a problem with
a memory allocation routine in either Microsoft C or inherent in MsDOS (I am
not really sure which, because I don't work on that project).  The problem
manifests itself as an inability to allocate a relatively large memory block,
even though there *SHOULD* be enough free memory to satisfy the request.  In
our case, the problem turned out to be fragmentation; enough free memory was
available, but no piece was big enough to satisfy the request.  Somewhere, the
memory manager  was neglecting to join together adjacent pieces of free memory
as they were being freed.  The work-around was to either 1) allocate all of the
required memory all at once, in the beginning of the program, or 2) play some
kind of tricks on the memory management system, to force it to join the free
blocks together (which I am not very clear on; the technique had something to
do with allocating a small block and then extending it to the required size).
 
My vehicle design system is based on a Quattro Pro spreadsheet (which can also
be saved in a variety of other formats; I used a least-common-denominator
approach) and will run on just about any platform that will run Quattro Pro. 
It has been successfully tested in QPro and Lotus on a 2-Mb AT, and has also
worked on a 640k PC-XT (very slow, and with lots of disk I/O, but it worked). 
If anybody wants it, I could always ZIP it up, and upload it to Sunbane.  There
is no documentation (yet), but you can always try to figure things out.
 
 
A Destroyer to go with the Frigates
 
This is an escort ship to accompany the frigate designs posted earlier.  The
ships were designed by the same naval architect, and have been designed with
maximum commonality in mind.  Both vessels use identical computer, sensor, and
communications suites, and have an extrordinarily flexable data-link package. 
Many minor parts, from lighting panels to circuit junction boxes and even crew
quaters modules are also identical.  This commonality helps to ease
maintainance and supply problems.  As always, comments and critizism are
appreciated (and may even be heeded); pay special attention for evidence of
errors in the design - I still don't trust the spreadsheet.
 
CraftID:	Destroyer, Type=DD, TL=15, MCr=14,177.992.
Hull:		8550/21375, Disp=9,500, Config=1SL, Armor=58G (ArmorDM=-6).
		UnloadedMass=217,003 tons, LoadedMass=220,645 tons.
Power:		2295/4590, Fusion=619,600Mw, NominalDuration=30/90.
Locomotion:	1454/2908, Thrusters=6, Agility=6.
		257/514, Jump=2.
		NOE=190kph, Cruise=750kph, Max=1,000kph.
Communications:	MesonComm=3xSystem, RadioComm=3xSystem, LaserComm=3xSystem,
		MaserComm=3xSystem, RadioJam=3xSystem.
Sensors:	Densitometer=3xHighPen-1km, Neutrino=3x10kw, 
		ActiveEMS=3xSystem, PassiveEMS=3xInterstellar, 
		EMSJam=3xSystem.
		ActObjScan=Simple, ActObjPin=Simple, PassObjScan=Routine,
		PassObjPin=Routine, PassEngScan=Routine, PassEngPin=Routine.
Offense:	Missile=xx7, BLaser=xx9
		Battery   1           8
		Bearing   1           8
Defense:	DefDM=-15, NucDamper=9, MesonScreen=9, BlackGlobe=4.
		SandCaster=xx7
		Batteries    1
		Bearing      1
Control:	BasicEnv, BasicLS, ExtLS, AirLocks=9, Gravity, InertialComp.
		Computer=3xMod-9/fib, Panel=38xHoloDynamic,
		Special=11xLargeHolo, HUD=4xHoloHUD.
Accomodations:	Sections=10, Crew=123, (13xBridge, 28xEngineer, 17xCommand,
		7xMaintainance, 3xSteward, 54xGunner, 1xMedical).
		Bunks=96, SmallStateroom=18, Stateroom=9, SubCraft=None.
Other:		Cargo=216kl, Fuel=48,949kl, Scoops, Purifier=24 hours.
		ObjSize=Large, EMLevel=Moderate (E-M Masking).
		Magazine=(Missile=60 bty-rounds, SandCaster=30 bty-rounds).
Endurance:	30 days Cruise (MDrive=1, Agility=0, Consumption=11.429 kl/hr);
		3 more days at full combat power (Consumption=298.371 kl/hr),
		and 1 Jump-2 (Consumption=19,237.5kl for Jump-2).
		One hour at Full Thrust uses 5.36 hours of Cruise duration.
		One hour of Combat Power uses 26.11 hours of Cruise duration.
Notes:		Cost is for Prototype, and includes architect's fees.
		Production cost would be MCr 11,230.093.
 
 
T R A V E L L E R
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Science-Fiction Adventure in the Far Future
 
"This is IISS 4736, request permission to taxi to the blast pad, over."
"Ahh ... IISS 4736 ... that you, BJ?"
"Was when I got up this mornin'.  You still talkin' to starships, Slim?
"Yuhuh.  Well, buddy, we got a lil problem here.  Pad 3 is closed for a while."
"What hapened?"
"Oberlindes 43 had a lil drive trouble on final; ruined his whole day."
 
Wildstar ------------- (aka Guy Garnett) ------------- wildstar@popeet.acs.com
 

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3058
Date:     Thu, 31 Oct 91 14:33:53 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  More stuff...

Griffin Island Weasel Light Tank TL9

     Like many small countries on developing planets, Griffin Island indus-
tries concentrated on producing locally adapted variants of standard Imperial 
Data Package vehicles for their armed forces.  Production has ceased since the 
Sea league invasion.  The Weasel is a light armored vehicle intended to be 
readily air-transportable (to include being helicopter lifted) and to provide 
limited armored support for light infantry units.  The turret mounted 8cm 
gun/mortar system provides a reasonable capability for engaging other light 
armored vehicles, and can be readily adapted for indirect fire support.

  CraftID: Weasel Light Tank, TL9, Cr135,700
     Hull: 2/4, Disp=1, Config=4USL+turret(40%), Armor=16D, Unloaded=11.5t,
           Loaded=9.6t
    Power: 1/2, MHD=1.6MW, Dur=12hrs
     Loco: 1/2, Tracks, P/W=139, GP=5.7, Road=238kph, Offroad=142kph
     Comm: Radio=Regional(500km), LaserComm=Dist(5km)
  Sensors: 2*Headlights, Passive IR, Light Amplification, 
           AllWeatherRadar=Dist(5km), ActObjScan=Form, ActObjPin=Form
      Off: Hardpoints=1, Weapon stabilized, 100kph

                      Pen/         Max      Auto   Dngr
           Ammo  Rds  Attn   Dmg   Range    Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
8cm mortar KEAP  140   22     9  Dist(5)     -       -     M    36
            HE    -    16    12  Dist(5)     -      30     M    36
           HEAP   -    38     9  Dist(5)     -       -     M    36
     HMG     -  1000   6/3    3  VLong(1.5)  3       -     H    80

      Def: -
  Control: Elec*10
    Accom: Crew=3 (Driver,Gunner,Commander), Seats=Adequate*3, Env=basic env
    Other: Fuel=0.84kl, Cargo=0, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Moderate

Dragon Heavy Attack Helicopter TL9

     The Dragon heavy attack helicopter is a typical example of pregravitic 
battlefield aviation.  Equipped to carry a heavy ordnance load as well as 
twelve fully loaded infantrymen, it is ideal for airmobile operations in 
areas of low to moderate antiaircraft threat.  A full suite of sensor systems 
allows easy night operations.  The ladar system can be used for target desig-
nation (particularly for the missile armament) as well as for search pur-
poses.
 
  CraftID: Dragon Heavy Attack Helicopter, TL9, Cr951,360
     Hull: 80/200, Disp=88.8, CleanWt=20t, FullLoad=25.65t,
           Airframe=Simple, Armor=cockpit*2
    Power: 2*3.3MW High Performance Gas Turbines
     Loco: 4/10*2, Main and tail rotor, Lift=26.4t, thrust=6.6t, 
           Endurance=2.6 hrs

            MaxAccel  Drag  MaxSpeed  Cruise  Range  Agility 
     Clean    0.28     -     300        225    585     1
    Loaded    0.22     9     229        172    447     1

     Comm: Radio=Continental
  Sensors: Advanced Image Enhancement, Advanced Active IR, 
           AllWeatherRadar=VDist(50km), Ladar=Dist(5km), ActObjScan=Diff, 
           ActObjPin=Diff
      Off: 1 fuselage hardpoint, 4 inboard hardpoints, 4 outboard
           hardpoints, Typical external ordnance load=1 30mm 6-barrel
           autocannon pod, 4*1000kg ASM, 4*12cm rocket pods
      Def: -
  Control: Boosted
    Accom: Crew=2, Passengers=12, Complex armored cockpits*2, Troop
           Section*12, Env=basic env
    Other: Fuel=8.47kl, Cargo=2t, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Faint

Transtar-27 Speeder TL14

       The Transtar-27 is a very popular speeder design, frequently found as 
an auxiliary craft aboard scout and merchant vessels.  Originally designed by 
the Transtar Company of Trin, the design has since been licensed across the 
Domain of Deneb.  There are no particularly unusual design features exhibited 
in the Transtar-27. A full sensor array and computer control system allow 
integration with planetary traffic networks, and two of the seating positions 
are suitable for extended occupation.  A full environmental array also con-
tributes to passenger comfort.

  CraftID: Transtar-27 Speeder, TL14, Cr962,380
     Hull: 3/7, Disp=3, Conf=1AF, Armor=4G, Loaded=17.0t,
           Unloaded=14.9t
    Power: 1/2, Fusion=9MW, Dur=10 days
     Loco: 1/2, StdGrav=55t, TopSpeed=2280kph, Cruise=1710kph,
           NOE=180kph, MaxAccel=2.23G
     Comm: Radio=Continental(5000km)
  Sensors: ActEMS=Dist(5km), PassEMS=VDist(50km), ActObjScan=Form, 
           ActObjPin=Form, PassEnScan=Form
      Off: Hardpoints=1, No weapons
      Def: -
  Control: Comp=Mod0*2, HoloLink*16
    Accom: Seats=ExtOccRoomy*2, Adequate*4, Env=basic env, basic ls, ext ls,
           grav plates, inert comp
    Other: Fuel=3.6kl, Cargo=1.8kl, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Moderate 

Nighthawk Medium Attack Helicopter TL8

     The Nighthawk helicopter is capable of providing rapid reaction to enemy 
movements on the battlefield.  It is equipped with a rapid fire cannon, and 
ordinarily carries both precision guided and area effect munitions. It would 
usually operate in conjunction with scout and transport helicopters as part 
of an integrated airmobile operation, but is also frequently employed as 
"flying artillery" in enemy rear areas, and in support of troops beyond the 
range of conventional artillery. 
 
  CraftID: Nighthawk Medium Attack Helicopter, TL8, Cr432,160
     Hull: 32/80, Disp=35.6, CleanWt=8t, FullLoad=13.2t,
           Airframe=Simple, Armor=cockpit*2
    Power: 1*3.3MW high performance gas turbine
     Loco: 4/10*2, Main and tail rotor, Lift=13.2t, thrust=3.3t, 
           Endurance=1.5hrs

            MaxAccel  Drag  MaxSpeed  Cruise  Range  Agility 
     Clean    0.34     1     297        223    334     0
    Loaded    0.22     9     224        168    250     0

     Comm: Radio=Regional(500)
  Sensors: Radar=VDist(50), AdvActIR, Image Enhancement, ActObjScan=Diff,
           ActObjPin=Diff
      Off: 2*inboard hardpoints, 4*outboard hardpoints, 2*Launch rails,
           Remote turret (chin) with 1 6 barrel 2cm autocannon and 1200rd,
           Typical external ordnance load=2*1000kg ASM, 4*12cm rocket pods,
           2*12cm rockets
      Def: -
  Control: Simple
    Accom: Crew=2 (Pilot, Gunner), Complex armored cockpits*2, Env=Basic env
    Other: Fuel=2.54kl, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Faint

Nightowl Medium Transport Helicopter TL8

     The Nightowl is based on the Nighthawk attack helicopter airframe.  It 
is intended to provide rapid transport of troops in reaction to enemy move-
ments on the battlefield.  The Nightowl carries two machine guns in flexible 
mounts at the side doors, and has the capability of carrying two rocket pods 
for prelanding suppressive fires.  It would ordinarily be accompanied attack 
helicopters as part of an integrated airmobile operation.
 
  CraftID: Nightowl Medium Transport Helicopter, TL8, Cr370,400
     Hull: 32/80, Disp=35.6, CleanWt=8t, FullLoad=13.2t,
           Airframe=Simple, Armor=cockpit*1
    Power: 1*3.3MW high performance gas turbine
     Loco: 4/10*2, Main and tail rotor, Lift=13.2t, thrust=3.3t, 
           Endurance=1.6hrs

            MaxAccel  Drag  MaxSpeed  Cruise  Range  Agility 
     Clean    0.35     2     294        220    352     0
    Loaded    0.33     4     288        216    346     0
SlingLoaded   0.21    10     216        162    259     0

     Comm: Radio=Regional(500)
  Sensors: Radar=Dist(50), PassIR, Light Amp, ActObjScan=Form,
           ActObjPin=Form
      Off: 2*inboard hardpoints, 2*flexible mounts with light machine guns 
           and 2000rds. Typical external ordnance load=2*12cm rocket pods
      Def: -
  Control: Simple
    Accom: Crew=2 (Pilot), Complex armored cockpits*1, 
           TroopSection*12, Env=Basic env
    Other: Fuel=2.54kl, MaxSlingLoad=5t, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Faint
     Note: Machine gun mounts are operated by embarked troops when
           required.

Hunter Self Propelled AA Gun TL7

     The Hunter can be built from a standard Imperial Data Package, and is 
intended to serve in an air defense role in armored units.  It is equipped 
with an all weather targeting radar, and a sealed environment life support 
system to permit operation in contaminated areas.  The potential high rate of 
fire of the 4cm autocannon can use up the onboard ammunition supply rapidly, 
and a Hunter in the field is frequently accompanied by a dedicated armored 
ammunition carrier.  Operational Hunters are frequently modified to carry 
smoke grenade launchers and commander's machine guns.

  CraftID: Hunter SPAAG, TL7, Cr109,595
     Hull: 3/6, Disp=2, Config=4USL+turret(20%), Armor=20C, Unloaded=22.1t,
           Loaded=34.6t
    Power: 1/2, ImpIntComb=2.0MW, Dur=20hrs
     Loco: 1/2, Tracks, P/W=61, GP=6.4, Road=125kph, Offroad=61kph
     Comm: Radio=Regional(500km)
  Sensors: Passive IR, AllWeatherRadar=Dist(5), ActObjScan=Form,
           ActObjPin=Form
      Off: Hardpoints=1

                           Pen/         Max    Auto   Dngr
                Ammo  Rds  Attn   Dmg   Range  Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
 4cm Autocannon  HE  5000    6     8  Dist(5)   7      10     H    1280
                KEAP   -    14     6  Dist(5)   7      -      H    1280

      Def: -
  Control: Elec*16
    Accom: Crew=3 (Driver, Gunner, Commander), Seats=Cramped*3,
           Env=Basic env, basic ls
    Other: Fuel=2.5kl, Cargo=0, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Moderate

Basil class Free Trader TL12

     The Basil class Free Trader is a modified Type A design, with an upgrad-
ed maneuver drive (to allow take off and landing on most planets while load-
ed), an armament package, and a reduced accommodation set.  The Basil is 
fairly typical of craft being built during the current Imperial difficulties.  
Two dual turrets are installed, one with two beam lasers, the other with a 
missile rack and a sandcaster.  No dedicated missile magazine has been pro-
vided, so missiles must be carried in the cargo hold.  Firing both lasers 
requires the full power ordinarily used for the maneuver drives and the iner-
tial compensators.

  CraftID: Basil class Free Trader, TL12, MCr61.03  (MCr48.82 discount)
     Hull: 180/450, Disp=200t, Config=4SL, Armor=40F, Loaded=3073t,
           Unloaded=1768t
    Power: 11/22, Fusion=696MW, Duration=30 days 
     Loco: 8/16, Maneuver=1.5 (Thrusters=4550t), 4/8, Jump=1,
           MaxSpeed=576kph, Cruise=432kph, TrueAcc=1.48G, Agility=0
     Comm: Radio=System*2
  Sensors: EMS Active(FarOrbit), EMS Passive(Interplanetary), 
           ActObjScan=Rout, ActObjPin=Rout, PassEnScan=Rout
      Off: Hardpoints=2

               Missiles=x01    BeamLaser=xx2
           Batteries      1                1
           Bearing        1                1

      Def: DefDM+2

               SandCaster=x03
           Batteries        1
           Bearing          1

  Control: Computer Mod1*3, 3*HeadsUpDisplay, 530*DynLink
    Accom: Crew=5 (1 bridge, 2 engineer, 2 gunners), MiddlePassengers=3, 
           Staterooms=8, Env=basic env, basic ls, extended ls, grav plates, 
           inertial comp
    Other: Fuel=521kl (1 jump-1+30 days), Cargo=1268kl, Fuel Scoops, Fuel
           Purifier (16hr), ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint
    Notes: Fuel Use 270kl/jump, 0.348kl/hr power.  Air speed calculated on
           G - 1 basis to allow for lift.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3059
Date:     Thu, 31 Oct 91 14:34:23 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Ramblings...

                              RANDOM ENCOUNTERS
                                      or 
         A few thoughts, questions and comments on being a Traveller 
             referee, particularly as related to my recent game.

1. Background:  A few months ago, TML readers will recall that I was starting 
out a (Mega)Traveller game at my local game store, with several goals in mind: 
giving Traveller more exposure, having fun by using some of the planning I've 
labored over for so long, and potentially recruiting a few good players for 
some even more esoteric role-playing-heavy games that I'd like to run someday.  
Metlay once posted an excellent note about why one should never try running a 
store game, but I ignored him and went ahead anyway.

2. The Game: The game was supposed to be freeform.  I dislike completely 
linear adventures, so when only two people (both of whom I had requested to 
show up) arrived for the first gaming session, I had them generate their 
characters.  Since they turned out to be a Scout and a scientist, with a scout 
ship for transport, I asked them about how they knew each other, and we gener-
ally brainstormed for a little while about what sort of campaign we wanted to 
play.  It was finally decided that these were two brothers-in law who were 
seeking vengeance against the Sword Worlds for the death of their sister/wife 
(respectively).  Since their scout was unarmed (I give out the no-frills 
version), they decided that their first goal was to get some money and buy 
some weapons for the ship.  So far so good.  End of week 1.  By the time the 
second week rolled around, I had rolled up a number of prepared characters, 
since I know that this aspect of Traveller is intimidating to a lot of poten-
tial new players.  Two new players arrived, and the ship departed from Glisten 
with a load of soft drink mix, bound for a poor, industrial planet.  Now, we 
all know that the trade system in MegaTraveller is broke, so I didn't want to 
burden the players with the detail needlessly.  Upon arrival, they delegated 
the action to one of the new players, playing a merchant.  He attempted to 
bribe the officials there, and barely avoided arrest.  He traded the soft 
drinks for two armored cars.  After much deliberation, it was decided that 
they should take the armored cars to the nearest equivalent tech level planet 
with a war going on.  (Overnale).  The crew was also given the opportunity to 
carry a scientist and a one ton container of fish in cold sleep to Overnale, 
which they accepted.  They made no particular inquiries regarding the nature 
of the fish.  Upon their arrival, the player who had done the trade departed, 
not to return, and a new player who would last until the recent end of the 
game (another merchant) was added.  The fish were unloaded and the scientist 
disappeared--it had all been part of a plot to assassinate the head of the 
local government.  While the wheels of the plot were turning, the players sold 
the armored cars, and discovered that the local economy was tightly con-
trolled.  There was no free exchange of the local currency with Imperial 
money.  However, they developed a plan to deal with their currency surplus by 
harvesting wood (yes--I got this bit from the Traveller Adventure).  About 
then, the assassination attempt succeeded.  The players were implicated, and 
they were hauled off to jail for questioning.  Then a coup/civil war broke 
out.  Two new players showed up one week, and I had ended the previous week 
with our heroes sitting in jail.  So, I threw them into the adjacent cell with 
nothing but the clothes on their back and told them to escape.  (This was the 
week where one of the new people asked me where I had bought the module we 
were playing.)  They broke out (the guards were distracted by an attack on the 
building related to the coup), and made their way back to the starport in the 
garbage truck, an incident alluded to on the TML.  As they arrived at the 
port, their ship took off to avoid combat, and they huddled in the terminal 
with ther rest of the refugees.  When things calmed down a few hours later, a 
friendly free trader captain gave them a lift up to their ship.  Now they had 
no money except the worthless local currency (balkanized world) and had to 
land at the planet's other starport for fuel and supplies.  They managed to 
pick up a load of fish, and the merchant player accepted an offer to carry a 
load of submachine guns illegally hidden in the fish.  The new players who had 
escaped from prison disappeared, never to be seen again.  Customs found and 
impounded the machine guns, and they avoided arrest only because their ship 
was impressed back into the scout service due to the tension preceding the 
opening of the Fifth Frontier War.  They proceeded to Glisten, and we added a 
new player, who was home from school for the summer, but was a Traveller 
enthusiast.  After their ship was partially refitted (weapons, etc.) they were 
sent on a long trip to deliver a load of parts needed for the completion of a 
spy ship to be sent into enemy territory.  Since the local commander had no 
better personnel available, they became the crew of that ship (the Curious 
George, details uploaded to the TML previously) and set off looking for a 
Collace battlecruiser to scan.  Several jumps later, they came to a planet 
occupied by one of the potential enemy worlds.  A few new players had showed 
up, and they delegated one to go and talk to the port authorities about get-
ting permission to do an ocean refueling.  (I should mention that the C.G. had 
a Model 9 computer and an extremely advanced sensor array hidden in a portion 
of the fuel tankage.)  The new player (who was never to be seen again), went  
to the office and found that the civilian authorities had been replaced by low 
level naval officers of the occupiers.  Naval officer: "No.  No permission to 
be granted for a time before 10 days from now.  We're far too busy here, and 
they don't pay us enough to retain enough extra personnel to do all the work."  
Player: "Well.  If we take off without enough fuel, we just might crash on 
your city."  Result: A safety inspection team come to look at the fuel tanks.  
Was I too subtle with the officer?  This delayed the players for a number of 
game days.  By the time they reached Collace, the war had already begun.  
Posing as neutrals, they acquired their data and did some trading.  On the way 
back, they ended up spending three extra weeks in jumps into and back from a 
system that they had already heard was occupied by the enemy.  So they de-
toured.  In that detour they encountered an enemy privateer in the Pagaton 
system (TL4 planet undergoing an ice age).  We fought it out.  The Model 9 
computer made it a massacre for the privateer, but they luckily blew the power 
plant out in the George.  With two portable fusion plants (each 3MW) jury-
rigged to the maneuver system they overtook the ballistic remnants of a space 
fighter and salvaged its power plant.  They no longer had the hull integrity 
needed for a gas giant refueling, so they proceeded for the planet.  Between 
sessions, I started working out the planet details.  The privateer, byt the 
way, had jumped for its base to end the combat.  One week out, one week back 
for reinforcements.  The new privateer ships arrived just before the George 
landed.  Not wishing to get involved in any local entanglements of any sort 
(sigh), the players decided to sit, powered down, on the ice cap for six weeks 
until the privateers gave up and went away.  In the meantime, Glisten  had 
fallen, called on its fleets to surrender, and had the chief admiral rebel and 
take the fleet to attack Collace.  By the time the George reached Imperial 
space again, Glisten had been liberated and Collace had surrendered.  They 
sold the cover cargo and the salvaged goods from their space fight and were 
awarded with most of the proceeds by the Prize Court.  There the game now 
sits, waiting for their next Fifth Frontier War mission.

3. Problems:  No new player who ever showed up stayed for more than one ses-
sion of the game.  It was getting to be a standing joke, about clearing the 
ship of the accumulated NPCs every couple of weeks.  Why not?  Is my referee-
ing style that horrible?  Maybe.  Maybe they just don't like Traveller. Popu-
lar systems for play at the store have included D&D/AD&D, Paranoia, Call of 
Cthulhu and Cyberpunk.  I don't run a combat heavy game, and after a couple of 
warning about how dangerous fighting was likely to be (which the permanent 
players took to heart, and lectured newcomers about) the only fight in four or 
more months of play was the space battle with the privateer.  I always felt 
like I was leading players around by the nose--without direct orders from the 
Imperial Navy, not much was happening.  No matter how much information or how 
many opportunities they were given, they always managed to avoid doing any-
thing I had prepared for.  "Obviously" bad situations, like the gun smuggling 
one, were entered into voluntarily by the players.  Little actual role-playing 
occurred.  The task system is pretty good for resolving things inside a role-
playing situation, but just rolling for tasks makes for a very dry game.

Comments:  Without self-directed players, running an open ended game of Tra-
veller can be very difficult.  The number of people interested in SF rpgs vs. 
the number interested in fantasy rpgs seems to be very small.

So, what did I do wrong?  How does the structure of the overall game, as it 
occurred, sound to people?  What should I do differently?  What sorts of 
Traveller games are other people running at the moment?

Rob Dean




------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3060
Date:     Thu, 31 Oct 91 16:54:46 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  First Battle type Boardgame?

I just started roughing out a system for Traveller medium scale combat using
a variant of the GDW First Battle tactical boardgame rules.  Obviously, this
would not be publishable without GDW's permission.  Is there anybody out there
familiar with the games?  Do you you think that such a thing would fulfill
a need in Traveller?  Command Decision for Traveller would be almost as
good--and might be part of Space Viking?  When?

Hmmm....more if anyone is interested.

Rob


------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin), bfwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Raven Blackburn),
        anthony@cs.pitt.edu (Michael Anthony Kapolka),
        mcknight@f104.n170.z1.fidonet.org (Chuck McKnight),
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Subject: TML Bundle #249: Msgs 3060-3066
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Status: R


TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed Nov  6 21:00:13 PST 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #249: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
3061  01-Nov-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: How far does artifical gravity work? << >
3062  03-Nov-91 grue@cs.uq.oz.au  Re: Ship design program problems << hi, I've 
3063  02-Nov-91 "Stress is a stat Re: Robert S. Dean's ramblings << Your 'campa
3064  03-Nov-91 Carsten Muenchebe Hello and 3 questions << Hello, this is my fi
3065  04-Nov-91 grue@cs.uq.oz.au  Fast X-Boat << hi, The Fast X-Boat, or how to
3066  04-Nov-91 Sean Owens        The TURN (Nick Sylvain's "hole in the bag") <
3067  03-Nov-91 Richard Johnson   PBEM Turn 91.01a << PBEM Turn 91.01a (657 lin

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3061
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Re:  How far does artifical gravity work?
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 91 9:16:39 MET

> This was an interesting problem I had to deal with in the game I was writing.
> I assume that in Traveller, antigrav is inverse-squared, like regular
> gravity.

  I agree that that is the logical answer, but I remember either the Starship
OpMan or Grand Survey claiming that artificial grav inside a ship falls off
*faster* than normal gravitation.

  Ignoring the possibility that this is the result of some 'blackbox doubletalk'
the best explanation (IMHO) is that starship hulls are grav-shielded similarly
to densitometers to keep the artificial grav inside them to prevent it from 
messing up the environment.

> metlay

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3062
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 91 16:08:31+1100
From: grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Subject: Re: Ship design program problems

hi,
	I've had another idea that might be causing problems with the
design program.  To stop the program allocating and reallocating lots
of memory while loading the database, try the following:

in the file read_tbl.c at about line number 26 change
	#define INIT_ALLOC 500
to
	#define INIT_ALLOC 2000

This will cause the program to allocate enough space for the entire database at
startup.  The table will never fill up and thus, it won't have to be
reallocated ever.  By default the table is expanded 100 entries at a time. The
table ends up over 1700 entries long, so a dumb memory allocator is going to
desire enough space for 3500 entries which is going to come awfully close to
filling up the 640k the machine has available (after the space for the program
is accounted for, it will fill memory easily).




        						Pauli

Paul Dale               | Internet/CSnet:            grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Dept of Computer Science| Bitnet:       grue%cs.uq.oz.au@uunet.uu.net
Uni of Queensland       | JANET:           grue%cs.uq.oz.au@uk.ac.ukc
Australia, 4072         | EAN:                          grue@cs.uq.oz
                        | UUCP:           uunet!munnari!cs.uq.oz!grue
f4e6g4Qh4++             | JUNET:                     grue@cs.uq.oz.au

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3063
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 91 11:54:48 est
From: "Stress is a state of mind (Anderson, Richard)" <ANDERSOR%DICKINSN.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Robert S. Dean's ramblings

Your 'campaign' sounded like it was pretty well thought out, at least to the
short- and mid-term.  Granted, it's extremely difficult to have any sort of
long-term plot when you don't have a group of consistent players.  However,
you asked for suggestions, not back-slapping.

Suggestion 1:  Try to develop some sort of unifying thread

You started out well, with the brothers-in-law searching out the assassin of
their wife/sister.  What I might have done in your campaign, had I been the
ref, is allow them to find the murderer a lot faster than what happened.  They
should have been on the assassin's tail by the second adventure, or the third
at the VERY latest.  Let them meet the assassin.  Let the assassin try to kill
them.  Get them scared.  Then, when they finally do catch up to the assassin,
let them capture/kill him.  (This should be done by the next adventure session
after they meet him.)  [My assumption on session run-time:  3-4 hours each].
Then, once they think they've gotten to the bottom of this little enigma, give
them another.  (i.e.  The assassin was actually just a cog in some greater
conspiracy that the wife/sister stumbled upon somehow.  Now the party is
privvy to what she knew and have become the grand villan's newest target.)
The ultimate objective should be to track down the grand villan, corner
him/her, and bring him/her to whatever kind of justice seems appropriate.
Three out of every four adventures should have something to do with the grand
villan (in one way or another).  The fourth adventure should be diversionary
and unrelated.  (i.e. getting caught in the coup, becoming implicated in your
assassination attempt of that government official, etc.)  If your adventures
are planned out carefully, the players should become a touch paranoid that
*everything* that goes wrong in their lives has some connection to the grand
villan (once they've identified who this villan is).  Of course, only you will
ever know for sure until the very end.

Suggestion 2: Give them what they want.

The hobby shop where you started this open-ended campaign, according to you,
has a predisposition towards action/violence.  Fine, you tell them that in
Traveller, combat is extremely dangerous.  Then, to make your point stick, you
show them.  They want a fight, you give it to them.  Let them use all their
neat-o weapons.  Let them use their armor...a lot.  Then, make sure they
escape from death if things are going badly for them... the first time.  After
that, if they haven't learned their lesson, let them die.  Depriving them of
the action they crave, however, is a sure recepie for loss of interest.  Plus,
you can give them action via unarmed combat, too.  (And car chases!  Don't
forget the car chases!)

Suggestion 3:  Brave heart.

Get an exciting, interlaced, fluid adventure and the players will come.  They
will stay with it, too.  The few you might lose will keep things moving.  But
whatever you do, keep it fun and keep it going!

RHA

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3064
Subject: Hello and 3 questions
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 91 16:02:43 MET
From: Carsten Muencheberg <cm@zelator.in-berlin.de>


Hello,
this is my first appearance to the TML and I want to thank those
of you, who replied to my posting in rec.games.frp and told me
that the TML excists.

Since I got the Errata, many questions I had concerning the rules
disappeared, but some are still alive.

1. How does "gyro-stabilization" work, and why are laser rifles not
   gyro-stabilized?

2. Tasks excist for combat between people. What about animals,
   regarding the fact that they do not have a UPP and skills?
   Of course, I could improvise, but maybe some of you worked out
   some convincing rules.

3. This one is about the background:
   I recently refereed a very old Amber Zone named "Rescue on Ruie",
   which I found in The Best of the Journal Vol. 1. It is stated
   there that Sergei hault-Oberlindes is the son of Marc hault-
   Oberlindes, owner of Oberlindes Lines.
     One of my clever players read the Library Data and told me that
   Sergei must be the owner of OL.
     So what went wrong here? Unfortunately no current date is given
   for the Amber Zone.

Carsten Muencheberg
cm@zelator.in-berlin.de


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3065
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 91 15:52:34+1100
From: grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Subject: Fast X-Boat

hi,

	The Fast X-Boat, or how to break the jump-6 barrier!


CraftID:  Fast X-Boat, Type XZ TL=F (High Stellar), MCr245.994
Hull:     90/225, Disp=100, Config=1AF, Armour=40G
	  Unloaded=588.304 tons, Loaded=1036.357 tons
Power:    1/2, Fusion=252Mw, Duration=1015.87/3047.62 (6 weeks full output)
Loco:     2/4, Maneuver=1, 2/4, Jump=1,
	  NOE=190, Cruise=900, Top=1200
	  Agility=0
Commo:    3xRadio=System, 2xLaser=System, 2xMaser=System, Meson=Far Orbit
Sensors:  2xPassive EMS=Interstellar, 2xActive EMS=Far Orbit
	  2xDensitometer=HighPen/1km, 2xNeutrino=10kw
	  ActObjScan=Rout, ActObjPin=Rout,
	  PasObjScan=RoutRout, PasObjPin=Rout,
	  PasEngScan=Simp, PasEngPin=Rout
Def:      DefDm=+10
Control:  3xComputer=9fib, Panel=Holographic linkedx11, Special=Heads-up Display
	  Environ=basic env, basic ls, extend ls, grav plates, inertial comp
Accom:    Crew=1, Stateroom=1
Other:    Cargo=410.743kL, Fuel=533kL, FuelScoops
	  ObjSize=Average, EmLevel=none (EMM)

This ship is an experimental fast courier.  The ship is fully supplied and it
then induces a mis-jump.  Once the ship comes out of jump space, it attempts to
identify its current location and to then travel to the nearest system. 
Because of the somewhat random direction of travel, this kind of ship is only
used for news of a general nature, often several such ships will launch at the
same time hoping to reach distinct destinations. The ship carries enough fuel
for three seperate jump-1's and six weeks of power plant fuel.  All computers
and controls have ECP backing.  The reason for carrying the three jump-1s is
to increase the survival chance of the ship to a decent level.

As an aside, the probability of the ship surviving each launch is quite
impressive.  Assume the following represents a portion of a hex grid:

              l a b
             k 5 6 c
            j 4 S 1 d
	     i 3 2 e
              h g f

After a mis-jump assume the ship is located at the S in the above diagram.
Since the density of systems in the Traveller universe is about 0.5, this means
that there is a fifty percent chance of already being at a system. If you are
not at a system there is a 63 in 64 chance that you are one hex from a system
(hexes 1..6 in the diagram).  If that fails, there is a 4095 in 4096 chance
that you are two hexes from a system (hexes a..l).  If both of those fail, the
ship can induce a second mis-jump which will move you to a new S hex, which
again has a fifty percent chance of being empty and the six hexes around again
give a 63 in 64 chance of being able to jump there safely.  If this fails the
ship can induce a third and final mis-jump with a fifty percent survival
chance.  Working out the above figures leads to the final survival chance of:

	 -1 -6 -12 -1 -6 -1    -27            -9
	2. 2 .2  .2 .2 .2   = 2    = 7.45 * 10

So you have a 7.45E-9 chance of not locating a system, this gives a
0.999999992549 probability of finding a system (99.9999992549%). I think that
this is slightly better than flying on an airplane, and a lot better than drive
around town.

As for the distance travelled: A mis-jump goes 6d6 hexes in a random direction.
6d6 gives an average distance of (6*3.5=21 hexes) which is quite good.  Most of
the time the destination will be within on hex of a system and this makes the
travel time about two weeks (average of jump-10.5).  If the second jump is
required, this still averages jump-7.  The only problem is that the direction
is not very well known.

Needless to say, this ship isn't used very heavily around the low density
regions of space.  You'd have to be totally insane (or a Vagyr :-) to attempt
this kind of travel near the rift.  Even travelling normally, if the first
mis-jump doesn't land you near any systems then you've got some real problems
for your nerves as you induce the second mis-jump (1 in 128 failure chance) and
if that fails then you'll be a nervous wreck with an even survival chance! Of
course, having a robot pilot the thing saves a lot of suffering and so on.



        						Pauli

Paul Dale               | Internet/CSnet:            grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Dept of Computer Science| Bitnet:       grue%cs.uq.oz.au@uunet.uu.net
Uni of Queensland       | JANET:           grue%cs.uq.oz.au@uk.ac.ukc
Australia, 4072         | EAN:                          grue@cs.uq.oz
                        | UUCP:           uunet!munnari!cs.uq.oz!grue
f4e6g4Qh4++             | JUNET:                     grue@cs.uq.oz.au

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3066
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 91 03:06:49 -0500
From: Sean Owens <player@pittslug.sug.org>
Subject: The TURN (Nick Sylvain's "hole in the bag")


Richard,

	Excellent work on the Turn report.  Seeing it all in one place
(er, well, SIX places :-) certainly brought a semblance of order to the
whole process.  I think I've spotted what Nick Sylvain (aka the Aslan
CO) thinks is the weak point in Ralf's actions:

> -------------
> Aslan Pinnace
> -------------
> "Admiral, I respectfully must request that you give me the coordinates 
> of the enemy fleet again.  My feeble sensors cannot distinguish it from 
> the background of deep space."

	I suspect Nick means to use this to discover that the ships were
phantoms.  However, I question the accuracy of this... quoting from my copy
of the story sequence I sent to you:

> 	...and then he was there, in the buffer space at the fringe of
> the Aslan datasphere, watching the interplay between the two ships.  A
> stroke of luck, that.  The telemetry and encrypted communications
> between the two meant they had to be somewhat "open" to incoming
> signals, which in turn meant he had barely enough space for the
> foothold his heuristics package had secured.

	In other words, no, I did not specifically say "I'm faking out
the sensors of both ships", but that was because I was regarding them
as a whole, not as individual entities, acting under the implied 
statement that my actions were directed at both ships.

Steven J. Owens
scratch@hpb.cis.pitt.edu
aka Ralf

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3067
Subject: PBEM Turn 91.01a
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 91 17:14:02 PST
From: Richard Johnson <richard@agora.rain.COM>


PBEM Turn 91.01a   (657 lines, 30 220 characters)
==============================================================================
This is PART 1 of 5 It covers the first half hour or so after the
Turskaad team enters the system.

***** initial position of ships, etc. ****
Definitely NOT to scale  :=)  But not too bad for ASCII
(Top View)  Ring and Alcyon orbiting CCW as seen from here.

    W = Westwind, ~5.5AU from Alcyon, 45 minutes each way for signals
   GA = Gemini Arbiter ~3AU from Alcyon, 25 min. each way
    B = Bernoullia, 10 minutes one way signal
    S = Shuttle, 5 min. one way
    T = Trakh, on ground, 5 min.

All the rest within a few seconds for round-trip signals
    P = Paladin, taking a couter-rotation sweep for faster mapping?
    K = Kingfisher ~ 5 minutes to Alcyon
   Al = Alcyon
   Ta = Talisman
   Au = aurora


    W
     


                     GA                          
                                                     __-----__
                                                    /         \
                                                   /           \
                                                  /             \
                                                  |             |
                                                  |             |
                                                 |               |
                                                 |       *       |
                                                 |               |
                                            P     |             |
                                               K  |             |
                                                  \             /
                                             Al    \ S         /
                                                Ta  \--T____--/

                                                 Au
                                                        B





===============================================================

Aurora
- ---------------------------
Bhyarrvouf, favoring his sore leg, taps out a code deries on the console
before him, humming tunelessly. "Psionics out the poot-hole. Why am I NOT
surprised?" He sighs. "Well, hopefully there won't be any more bad--"

"Mayday, Mayday, Mayday this is Scout six eight Alpha Charlie ISS
Bernoulli.  We have one Ael Yael aboard, one dead, explosion aboard.  Jump
Drive out.  Maneuver drive damaged.  We have life support, and fuel for
five zero four hours.  Request assistance.  We have wounded aboard.
Transponder set for double seven double zero.  This is the ISS Bernoulli
broadcasting on one two one point five."

....surprises." 'Vouf scowls furiously. "For a SECRET locale, we're seeing an 
AWFUL lot of traffic!"

As the message begins to come in on the distress signal channel,
Christian's ears perk up and he listens with quiet intensity to the
remainder of the message, a small furrow of concern creasing his brow. His
hands begin to flow over the controls as he replaces the engineering
monitoring panel with a sensor ops and a communications panel.

With a few touches of his fingertips, he fires up the radio commlink
and briefly transmits a general broadcast. "Tallyho! Aurora responding to
the distress call from ISS Bernoulli -- this one's mine. Van Der Merwe out."

"Hey, wait a minute--" 'Vouf interjects weakly.

A few more taps and the maser commlink is locked onto the command
shuttle. "Van Der Merwe to Commander Ger: Considering the medical and
damage control needs of the disabled vessel, it is my conclusion that
it is vital that the Subcommander and I respond. Will keep in touch
with you and advise you of the situation aboard the Bernoulli as soon
as possible. Good luck with first contact. Aurora out."

"I, um..."

Christian glances over at the co-pilot station, where a cast-laden
Bhyarrvouf is uncomfortably settled. "'Vouf, lay in an intercept course
for the Bernoulli and get the power plant up to full, we're going to hit
the drives all out; we need that overdrive edge, time could be critical."
Time for a brief nod of confirmation, and Christian is off to another task.

Bhyarrvouf sighs again, and takes the controls gingerly in his bandaged hands.
"YES, aenrra," he mutters with exaggerated politeness. "At ONCE, aenrra,"
he says, as the bridge suddenly vibrates with the sound of a fusion plant
suddenly being called on for a whole LOT of power. "Whatever you SAY, aenrra!"

While continuing to closely monitor the engineering displays, Christian
gives 'Vouf a sidelong, bemused glance and slowly smiles. "Thank YOU,
aenrra. I am in AWE, aenrra." Christian stifles (barely) a snicker.

The Aurora shudders from stem to stern, and leaps forward in a surge that
overwhelms the inertial compensators for a moment and leaves both men gasping
for breath. As the Aurora does a marginal bit more than its maximum safe rated
acceleration, Bhyarrvouf sings gaily, "My feet are WINGS, aenrra! Your wish is
my COMMAND, aenrra! After all, WHAT THE HELL DO WE HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT?!"

At the sudden jolt of acceleration, Christian's eyes widen and he takes
a few seconds of deep breathing to recover. He listens to 'Vouf's complaints
with a straight face (but it is clearly an effort of will) and when 'Vouf
pauses for breath, Christian chimes in without missing a beat.

"Whine, whine, whine! Yer such a complainer, aenrra. I bet that's why
Ger put you here; he knew only I could put up with you." Christian
gently laughs, then assumes a mock dramatic pose.

His arms spread wide in supplication, he addresses the ceiling. "Oh
please, sir, can I be rescued? I've onnnly got a teeny bomb in
engineering, half-mangled maneuver drive and dubious life support.
Really, nothing important. Maybe I could have a cup of nutribroth? Never
mind little old me. Oooops!"

He snarls over at van der Merwe with a predator's toothy jaws. "'Oh, help!
Oh, mercy! Whoever will SAVE poor little ME?'" he mimicks a helpless tri-D
heroine's voice. "We'll ignore the fact that there's a vanishingly small
probability that a Jump-2 scout could have made it here in one piece, and
we'll ignore the fact that we're supposed to be an auxiliary command post
that can run things without putting Commander Nanadh at risk-- we'll even 
ignore the fact that we're undermanned and one of us can't FIGHT!" He makes
a vicious chopping motion in the air with one hand. "Nope nope nope. No
discipline, no chain of command, no previous orders-- it's Captain Cadeuceus
and his faithful pooch Voufie the Wonder-Moron to the rescue, and 
Yaskoydray take the laggards!" He makes a horrible hacking noise, and a wad
of Vargr spit dribbles down the main viewscreen. "Nothing like having
a doctor call the shots, oh joy oh happiness."

His fury spent, he gives a shuddering "Whumph," and begins reconfiguring the
controls, flicking on the comset as he does so. "All ship commanders, this
is SubCommander Bhyarrvouf. Since our Chief Medical Officer has volunteered
us to investigate this hulk and the other ships are too laden with personnel
to risk in a close-in engagement, I'm taking the Aurora in for a look. Under
no circumstances are the other ships to break formation-- protect the command
shuttle and make for the rendezvous with our, hrrm, HOSTS. We'll catch up
once we've determined what the situation is. Paladin, keep your cameras
rolling-- we aren't being given much time for telemetry. 'Vouf out."

Unable to restrain himself any longer, Christian's reserve fails utterly
and explodes in a cascade of deep laughs and guffaws, continuing for nearly
half a minute, until Christian has to wipe away tears. He quiets down but
still is grinning broadly. "Well Voufie the Wonder-Moron, Captain Cadeuceus
would appreciate it if you would clean up the main viewscreen and stop
dribbling on it, or Captain Cadeuceus just might make you go on a vegetable
puree diet!" He waves his finger in mock anger, then guffaws and gives
'Vouf a friendly clap on the shoulder.

Then Bhyarrvouf grins at van der Merwe affectionately. "Yer gonna get me killed
one of these days, aenrra," he laughs. "But the inventive methods you cook up
are really something to see!"

Christian grins back at Bhyarrvouf with equal affection. "Hey, aenrra, I
have to keep things interesting; Yaskoydray forbid that things should
ever get boring around me, who knows what you would do!"




- -----------------
Paladin
- -----------------
After storing his gear in his room and feeling satisfied with his
accomodations, Jordan walks through the vessel familiarizing himself
with it. Although no stranger to exploration vessels, he's well aware
that many times ships appear the same outside but are totally different
within. After his stroll through the ship, Jourdan then heads for the
bridge where he find 'Zar, Herr Doktor, and Charyn.

Looking over their shoulders, he can see R-Alpha through the viewport
and is amazed at the splendor of it. He then realizes the chatter on
the communication channels and the actions of the Paladin crew and
decided to save his questions for later.


"Paladin crew, this is Robins, Comm status report.  The ether is alive
with a distress signal from a ship called the Bernoulli.  The Aurora
will investigate.

"Local news.  I hope each of you are enjoying the same fine view of the
ringworld that I can see here on the bridge viewscreens and holotank.
Looks like we may be the first ship to get some real work done here.
I've done some initial looking about at some of the survey acquisition
systems and there's a sizable pile of data accumulating.  Let me know if
there's any particular instrument configurations you're interested in
setting up, and I'll be glad to accomodate you.  These instruments are
similar to the survey equipment I trained on when I was borrowed for
economic contact by the Scouts.

"I have full EM sweeps running continuously.  If there's anything down
there to hear, I'll hear it.

"Robins Out."


Charyn turns to Dr.  Morser, the only command team representative aboard
the Paladin.  "May I ask some questions, Doctor? What are our survey
plans prior to landing? How are we planning to select the landing site?
and, to whom will we report now and upon landing?"

Dr. Morser looks up from his wrist comp(look out, Dick Tracy!), somewhat 
startled. You can practically hear the gears grind in his head as he switches
trains of thought...

"Vell, I tink ve should keep ze scanning on a passive level for ze time
beink. Ve haff already rrreceived some sort of communication, ve can only
azzume from ze surface, informing us uf an envoy arrrrriving soon. Ze
message did not zeem hostile, but I vould still prrrefer to keep our
presence from any other life forms on the ringworld until ve are rready
to make contact ourrselves.

"Ve haff no vay uf knowing who has contacted us, but zey are obviously 
intelligent...zey understand ze concept of other civilizations...hmmm..."

He trails off in thought for a moment before realizing that Charyn is
still looking at him.

"Oh yes! Urmm.., I believe ve should begin by checking in mit Kommander 
Ger as to ze currrent situation upstairs...Frau Robins, if you vould be so 
kind as to hail ze command shuttle? 

"As for ze shuttle frrom R-Alpha, tink ve should get an okey-dokey from
Herr Ger before following her, but until zen ve should be doing as
much high-detail mapping as pozzible. Chust in case he vants us to rrun
from ze shuttle, I vant a few isolated, unpopulated, desolated areas to
choose landing sites from."


- -------------------
Talisman
- -------------------
*Welcome...* the telepathic voice rang in Ralf's head.  "Ouch."
Damn that felt weird.  Like having your mind's teeth cleaned.  Ralf's eyes
unfocused as he scanned the communications net of the available dataspheres.
The Alcyon's robust datasphere had blossomed out as the ships peeled off,
into multiple dataspheres linked by telemetry and communications.  A sudden
burst in communications and sensor scanning followed the telepathic contact
as crewbeings and expedition personnel reacted.  Ralf piped it through a
sorting algorithm and skimmed the outflow.


- ---------------------------
R-alpha
- ---------------------------
Katie's disappointment at being denied permission to join the First
Contact shuttle quickly fades when she is assigned to investigate the
unexpected V who have apparently already made ringfall near the base. 
A quick visit to the equipment storeroom to check out a skysuit, 
some diagnostic checks, and she's off.
 
Once over land, Katie starts scanning the V's projected landing
site, starting with the visual and IR spectra (a method that worked
well when monitoring the ring's natives).  Sure enough, amidst the
cool snow covering most of the forest is a dispersed IR source, weak
as if camouflaged.  She quickly makes her way over there.
 
 

Ziggy slowly stretched and awoke from his fourth nap of the day
or was it the fifth?  Hoop maitenance was a bother but someone had
to do it. But why me, other than the fact I know how?  Watching the
children was much more fun.  For some reason though, Katie replaced me
and I have to look at Hoopedge.  Blah. Enough time to check on the
kiddies...

When Ziggy arrives to find the kiddies but no Katie, he lets lose a
stream klicks and whistles. Where did she go?  

For the first time in a couple of days Ziggy turns his mind to the
chatter of the Hoop.


In a small clearing leading up to a ridge, Katie finds the source of
the IR reading -- a craft of some sort, definitely not phin.  A 
telepathic scan of the ship's inside reveals the presence of a mind
unlike any she has felt before.

"Katie to Phin Base, I've located the craft that followed Doejin's
shuttle down.  Continuing with surveillance."

And with that, she begins to run her view of the ship through the
suit's sensors.  Further investigations turns up the Kythui camp, 
preparing for their celebration.

"Kythui.  What are they doing ... Oh yeah, this is the place and time
they hold that silly thanksgiving ritual.  


<Ziggy>
"Well I guess thats where Katie is...Great the Visitors come and I'm
playing games with machines.  Ziggy ports for the main phin base, and
hopes he's not to  late to join in the fun.


- -------------------------
Phin Shuttle
- -------------------------
In the shuttle, Ferdy is agitated.  He keeps asking Doejin, "Are we
nearly there yet?"... "How are we going to dock with them?"... "What
are they doing at the moment?"... and so on.
 

Doejin concentrates on the instuments in front (and to the side and back) of
him.  Ferdy's questions go unanswered except for the visualization on the
2d screen and holo screens.

The entrance of another ship is completely unexpected and has Doejin confused.
Curiosity pulls in all directions...the shuttles coming toward him and the
ring, the shuttle veering off toward the distressed vehicle, the main large
ship (the Alcyon) which is among the strangest contraptions that have ever
been seen!  But obviously Ferdy is intent on original grouping of ships.

With telepathic irritation (uncommon for any Phin), Doejin asks ferdy to calm
down and help with some of the passive and active scans (he's been hanging
around the control centers enough to have learned something! :-)

In between these spates of questions, he swims back and forth
nervously, muttering to himself "He's back... HE's back... What does
he want to talk to me about?... I did what he asked... I kept quiet...
Why is he here now?"


- --------------
R-alpha
- --------------
Ah!  Dawn brings a fresh, harsh sunlight into the great clearing.
It is a good day for a celebration, thinks Rak.  Clear skies
overhead, fine soft snow underfoot, faint animal noises from deep
within the surrounding forests.  It is cold, but it is a wholesome
sort of cold -- the sort of cold that invigorates the spirit.  The
air smells fresh... except...
 
Rak raises his nose to the wind and sniffs.  Something is not right.
There is a smell he does not recognise -- some kind of strange
animal lurking in the distance, perhaps?
 
He thinks no more of it.  Whatever it is cannot possibly be a match
for the vast numbers of Kythui who are gathered together today.  On
any other day, most of these tribes would have been at each others
throats.  The mottled Gorthui, for example, hold little love for
Rak's Shalgui tribe.  But today, on this day of special celebration,
there will be peace.  Probably.
 

Cleverly concealed with his crew on the high ridge overlooking the
clearing, Akhouw likewise breathes in the cold, crisp air and gives
his mane a gleeful shake. Vast possibilities for information, giving
the Khaukeairl clan a vital edge over the other members of the Tlakhu,
plus the potential for land and ihatei colonization. Akhouw favors the
new dawn with a toothy grin; with a short growl he picks up his PRIS
binoculars and closely surveys the gathered throng, considering how
contact should be made.

 
While continuing the passive scans, Katie notices more heat sources 
up at the top of the ridge.  She quickly does a passive scan of the 
top of the ridge and picks up some more V up there.
 

Rak rides through the middle of the throng, resplendent in his
ceremonial battle regalia.  With no little smugness he notes that
the gara he is mounted upon is probably the biggest in the whole
assembly.  It makes him feel duly important.  Kythui in his path
are only too eager to scramble out of his way as he passes.
 
Rak spots a huge ornamental headdress in the distance and steers
his gara towards it.  That will be Mrog, who, together with the
shamans of the other tribes, are preparing themselves to incant
the rituals which give thanks for victory over hardship.
 
"Mrog!" calls Rak over the heads of the crowd.  "Are you ready to
start yet?"

 
The thought of creating a commotion sure to bring the Kythui 
investigating up the ridge crosses Katie's mind.

"Katie to Phin Base, these V sort of match Ferdy's description of
that lone V long ago -- upright biped, two upper limbs, bilateral
symmetry.  But they've got an awful lot more fur.  I thought Ferdy
said they only had fur on top of their heads.  They also look vaguely
feline in appearance."


Mrog hears his boss calling and opens his eyes to discover his ceremonial
head-dress covering his face. Replacing it in its appropriate location,
he responds with a "Here, O chief". Why has he been dreaming strange and
terrible dreams about ritual items such as "zerbhers" and "lance eggments"?


>From his far hiding place, Akhouw notes one of the Kythui in particular
as being more ostentatious (and presumably more important) than the
others as Rak moves to talk with Mrog. "Hryawi, note that one right
.. . . there, 221 mark 10, the big one. Probably a prominent leader,
you might want to deal with him."

A few seconds later, his communicator double chirps -- an urgent
signal from the Trakh's anchor watch. Distractedly, Akhouw takes a
few long strides away from the ridge and activates his communicator.
His irritated "WHAT?" is faintly audible to those crew on the ridge.
He listens intently for a minute, then briefly and animatedly talks
into the communicator, before turning to his crew and saying "Alert!
Multiple incoming ships -- back to the Trakh! Quick!"

As his crew hustles to pack up their gear and go back to ths ship,
Akhouw stops Hryawi and Hfolraw. "You two will stay here with the
speeder to continue observation of the Kythui and close scanning
of the ringworld; get as much as you can. If you think it practicable,
you are authorized to make contact. Overall, you are to have due regard
for your own safety. You have wide discretion here, do your best. We
will update you with coded bursts and you may contact the Trakh or
Khaurl likewise; tight-beam laser/maser only. We will arrange a
rendesvouz when possible; until then, good luck! Glory to the Clan!"
Akhouw salutes them both, then turns and quickly strides towards
the Trakh.


- ----------------
Aurora
- ----------------
A new signal is suddenly being received by those in the R-alpha
system.  Rather faint, it must be coming from something like 10
or 20 AU out, and from more or less the opposite side of the system
to where everyone else seems to be accumulating.

[GM Note, it only *seems* to be a 10 AU signal.  I really
 have you as shown above.  Sorry to do that to you, but I 
 want you to join up...]

 
"Hello... Hello... Can anyone hear me?... This is the ISS Westwind...
We're, uh, kind of lost at the moment... Nav systems have been
playing up... Not too sure about the sensors, either... No immediate
emergency, but we'd appreciate someone telling us where we are and
what's going on... Someone?... Anyone?... Please respond..."


"Westwind, this is ISS Aurora. If you're not sucking vacuum, getting
irradiated or starving to death, you're gonna have to wait your turn.
Keep broadcasting; we'll get to you in a few hours, maybe. Aurora out."

"Christiaaaaaaaan!" 'Vouf's voice is a miserable wail. "There's a-NOTHER
Scout ship out there!" He begins to howl piteously.

Christian stops dead in his tracks in disbelief. He slowly leans forward
until his forehead rests against the bulkhead, eyes closed in quiet
frustration, muttering darkly, "Why ME?" In a louder voice akin to
a shout, he consoles 'Vouf, his vocal inflection mirroring 'Vouf's
anguish. "Aenrra, I know how you feel. What in HELL did we do to
deserve this?!"


- --------------------
Kingfisher
- --------------------
IISS Westwind, This is Admiral Ger of the Darrian Confederation,
Currently in the employ of Turnskaad Corp. You are located in
the Coreward section of Reaver's Deep sector. Could you tell us how
you came to this location, and what your intentions are. You are
advised that this is a military operation, and that you should check
with this command centre before performing any operations near the
Ringworld. We are prepared to offer you any reasonable assistance that
will not interfere with our mission.

"Another ship? I don't believe this." Witfield quickly gets on the sensor,
scanning ISS Westwind. In the meantime, he access the ship computer
"Computer, please also perform a search on all records of ISS Westwind."
Patting his TL15 Hand Held computer, "nice toy."


- -------------------------
R-alpha---Trakh
- -------------------------
Grob hears the struggling brathsk (A creature somewhat resembling
the terran deer) long before he sees it twisting to free its left
hind limb from the snare.  Upon seeing Grob, the brathsk panics and
makes a wild leap.  Grob instantly jumps and grabs it in mid-air.
His hands search for the pressure point between the fifth and sixth
neck vertebrae and by the time both hit the ground, the brathsk is
incapacitated.
 
"Mrog will be pleased," Grob thinks while tying the legs together.
The festivities will start on time this year, and the live offering
was caught at the nearest trap -- both good signs.  He carefully
places the brathsk atop his gara -- to harm the brathsk chosen for
sacrifice is to bring bad luck.
 
He makes the rounds to the other snares and collects two more
brathsks.  Three -- a lucky number.  The extra two will make fine
feasting during the celebration.  At the final trap, Grob notices
something has knocked much of the snow off the trees in the area.
He follows the trail of fallen snow until off in the distance, he
spots an enormous, smooth and shiny rock at the base of a ridge.
He has never seen anything like it in this area, nor anywhere else.
Before he can guess as to what it is, a smaller *floating* rock
goes up to and is engulfed by the larger rock.  Grob watches, not
believing his eyes.  Is this a bad omen?  What should he do?


<Katie> 
"There appears to be one dominant alpha, as well as sub-dominants
ordering others around.  Their society may be based on the same
dominance hierarchies common in most primitive societies like the
Kythui."
 
Akhouw stops Hryawi and Hfolraw. "You two will stay here with the
speeder to continue observation of the Kythui and close scanning
of the ringworld;

Aye-Aye, Sir!  <The Aslan XO stamps to attention and Salutes>

Did you have any particular task in mind for the Pinnace?  How far away 
from us is the Alcyon, and are we picking up any of this scoutship 
distress business/Two scouts in distress...sounds fishy to me!


The bridge comes alive with activity, the lights coming up to standard
levels and stations switching from standby to active, as Akhouw and Uhwaikh
enter, sitting in the command pilot and gunner stations, respectively.
Akhouw secures the restraints rapidly, then turns to the holotank and
the threat analysis board, taking in the rapidly moving situation.
Glancing up, he raps out orders in quick succession.

"Aiwi, plot a maximum power ascent and an intercept course for the
 main group (pointing to the Alcyon cluster). Calculate standard
 evasion maneuvers for standby use. Try and get more information on
 these solos (pointing to the Bernoulli, Windward, and Gemini Arbiter).
 Monitor all communications channels and record all activity. Engage
 the EM Mask; Khaukeairl Clan ID exterior setting."

Activating the ship's commlink, he continues.

"Aeawiyh, I want those mains online quickly! Monitor power output
 closely, we may need overdrive or evasive power at a moment's notice."


<Katie>
"V craft is apparently preparing to move.  They have left two of
their crew and some equipment, possibly to monitor the Kythui."
Hmm, If these really aren't the V we were expecting, maybe some
specimens are in order...


<Trakh>
"Eihoftyah, you and Eakauw (Troop XO) -- fire up the pinnace and follow
 my lead; assume a parallel support position and stand ready for point
 defense help, but do not lock or engage without direct orders. I may
 detach you for independent duty regarding the distant bogies; be ready
 for that. Most importantly, keep alert -- the situation is fluid and
 I need your eyes and ears open to rapid changes. Clear?"

"Certainly, Admiral.  We shall be prepared for as many possibilities as
we can be.  We are picking up apparent distress signals broadcast from
two of the solo contacts.  If we must fight, I suspect those will be easy
prey for the Khaurl...and if we do not fight, perhaps a rescue would put 
the crews in our debt?  (If you will pardon my use of that feminine concept,
sir)."

"Uhwaikh, release tertiary interlocks and energize defensive systems;
 put offensive systems on standby alert. Monitor and analyze all contacts
 for combat ability."

A lightning stab to deactivate the communicator, and Akhouw turns to
consider his panel/HUD telltales, noting with a purr of satisfaction
the availability of full power. His fingers play across the controls
like those of a master pianist, activating Aiwi's navigation plot and
engaging full thruster lift. He monitors the holotank for updated
sensor information as the Trakh lifts from its camouflaged hiding
place at the base of a nearby hill, taking care to use the terrain
to avoid spooking the Kythui.

<Katie>
"V craft has lifted off."

<Grob>
A barely audible whine emerges from the direction of the rock.
Grob watches in horror as the rock, surely large enough to flatten
his entire village, begins floating as well and moves towards Grob's
direction.  A low roar takes over the whine and rivets Grob in place
as panic begins to take over his thoughts.  "It sees me!  It is
coming to kill me!  It will crush me!"  Just before the rock reaches
Grob, he regains his senses and kicks his gara to turn and run.  The
roar grows to an ear-splitting level as Grob flees, expecting at any
time to feel the rock come down on his back to crush the life out of
him.  Then, just as quickly, the sound passes him and begins to fade.


<Trakh>
Lifting clear of the R-Alpha surface, the Trakh speeds on its way
towards the multitude of unknown ships. Admiral Akhouw Tra'Ekhaul
spares a moment to contemplate the near future; if these are from
one of the Imperial factions, it could be trouble; if otherwise,
perhaps a measure of accomodation could be reached. An all-out
dewclaw fight would help no-one.


Grob glances upward and sees the rock, now moving away from him.  He
slows his mount down and stares in wonder and fear at the rock which
is now moving faster than any arrow he has ever shot.  Then to his
utter amazement, it heads straight up into the sky and disappears
from view.

<Katie>
"V craft is heading back into space.  Alert, Doejin:  V craft is
heading back in your direction."
 
 
Grob's bravery returns to him.  "I am a warrior.  I must show no
fear.  Rak will want to know what else I saw of this omen, and will
know my cowardice if I have not searched the area."  And so Grob
takes a deep breath and heads towards the ridge.
 
Hryawi starts to turn and return to the hill crest when Hfolraw 
stops him  and says
 
"Hryawi, look.  Our meeting problem has solved itself.  There, heading
for the landing zone, is a lone Kythui."

Once at the landing site, Grob can clearly make out a set of 
perfectly rectangular imprints in the snow.  "Perhaps they are 
a message from the spirits."

Hryawi turns toward where Hfolraw is pointing and raises his binoculars 
for a better view.  As the Kythui studies the marks made by the Trakh's
 'legs' he tells Hfolraw "Get out of site.  We need to get closer before 
he gets away."

The wind shifts its direction and a strange scent fills the air.
Grob looks upwind up the ridge and spots two barely visible, but
moving figures.  At the same moment, the shifting wind knocks some
snow off a tree branch above Grob.  The snow hits him squarely on
top of the head and he instantly panics again, jumps atop his gara,
and heads for the Kythui camp at full speed to tell Rak and Mrog
what he has just seen.

<Katie>
"Hello, what's this?  It looks like a Kythui was late to their annual
thanksgiving ritual.  He just got buzzed by the V craft and is in a
state of great fear and confusion.  He is moving towards the Kythui
camp at high speed and should be there in about 5 minutes.  I will
not interfere unless advised otherwise.  

<Hryawi>
"Damn.  We were too slow.  We must hurry.  From the interest he had in
the Trakh's traks, he will, no doubt, be bringing friends soon.  We must
not let this change slip by and hurt our pride.

- -- 
Richard Johnson      richard@agora.rain.com
Sue Congress!

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

