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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 01:48:08 2001
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From: "Andy Brick" <andy@exeus.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Subject: RE: [TML] OT : Icosahedriphobia [LONG]
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 09:46:38 +0100
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Hi

> Andy Brick gave us a detailed analysis of the d20 system, specifically in
> relation to D&D. I agree with the majority of his analysis; it was
> reasonably scholarly and in-depth.

Cheers.

> (Presumably you don't like the GURPS templates, either?) I'd call the
> classes an example of _archetypes_, rather than stereotypes. I mean, I've
> know quite a few (twisty little?) 10th level fighters, all different. ;-)

Nope. I've never like templates in games, like Shadowrun for example. It's
shrinkwrapped character generation, suitable only for one off/tournament
games. If it's a character you mean to play for a while, then put some
effort into the generation - it's more rewarding.

> But this method works well in a "heroic" game.

RuneQuest is likewise a "heroic" game, and it does not have these issues.
What it does have is a broken fatigue system and a sorcery system that is
way, way too complex for quick play, but well, hey ...

> If you want realism in combat, don't play D&D. If you want to play Die
> Hard, play D&D; if you want to play Die Quickly, play Cthulu; if you want
> to play Just Die Already (over and over), play Paranoia. ;-).

ROTFL !!


Andy

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 03:03:26 2001
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From: "Peter L.S Trevor" <ptrevor@rctrevor.com>
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Subject: Re: [TML] OT : Icosahedriphobia
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 10:40:01 +0100
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Pat Berry wrote:
> > Change the game mechanic and these extrapolations become
> > invalidated.
> 
> That is certainly a significant consideration for some players
> of the game.  But not everyone who plays Traveller is a gearhead.

In addition to gearheads and non-gearheads there's also  a  third
group: non-gearheads who flesh out their TUs with the  work  done
by gearheads.  I consider myself  to  be  mainly  in  this  third
group.   So  the  last  thing  I  want  is  yet  another  set  of
incompatable canon: it dilutes the creative effort of the TML.

Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)



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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 03:03:26 2001
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Subject: Re: [TML] OT : Icosahedriphobia [LONG]
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Hyphen wrote:
> Quibble #1: I'd define Classic Trav as first generation.
> Remember that - like AD&D - your armour vs the weapon is used
> to determine whether you were hit or not, and if you were hit
> you take full damage from the weapon. I'd concede that MT and
> TNE are second-generation. GURPS? Maybe it's an ahead-of-its-
> time 3rd generation. (What do/should the later generations
> represent, anyway? Different, more "realistic" combat rules?
> Styles of play that encourage more role-playing and less
> roll-playing?? Anyone have a few definitions???)

Just to throw some water on the chip-pan fire ...

Although presented with rudimentary development and  half  buried
in humourous background, the core combat mechanic of the Paranoia
RPG has always struck me as  somewhat  advanced  in  the  way  it
handles damage spread and the hit point  issue:  Strong  PCs  can
still be killed with an ordinary knife (but  weak  PCs  are  more
likely to be killed), and weak PCs can survive an AP round from a
cone rifle (but strong PCs have a greater chance).  Combined with
a skill  system  that  had  higher  skill  levels  becoming  more
specialised, and Paranoia would be a 4th generation system.

(And perhaps the diceless Amber RPG would  be  a  5th  generation
system.)

Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)



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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 03:11:31 2001
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Subject: Re: [TML] OT : Icosahedriphobia [LONG]
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
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In mail you write:

> At 04:14 PM 04/11/01 +0100, you wrote:
>
>>> He can't.  He has never been able to, in any version of D&D.  The rules
>>> make that quite clear.
>>
>>Oh, hogwash. Your fighter has 67hp, and gets hit by a rock, and takes 30hp
>>damage in D&D. End of argument. The fact that his 67hp represent his
>>experience at least in part is suddenly (and conveniently) forgotten. _This_
>>is the case in D&D and always has been.
>
> I refer to pages 128-129 of the D&D 3e Player's Handbook.
>
> To wit:  Helpless characters (such as one bound up tightly with his head on
> the chopping block) can be killed in a single round regardless of hit
> points.  All the HP in the world aren't going to stop that axe from
> severing your head from the rest of your body.

And I remember when they *added* that rule to D&D. At least 5 years
after it came out. (Note: I started playing with the first *printing*
of first edition D&D. Back in 1974)

Also, *you* said "any version of D&D". Quoting 3rd edition AD&D doesn't
prove anything about *other* versions.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 03:11:31 2001
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From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
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In mail you write:

> I've no doubt we can get the equipment ($20k Cisco Media Server pushing
> 30fps 1200k stream anyone, or should we use our multicast case pushing 17fps
> 1200k, 10fps 500k, or 3fps 100k Unix flavored).  Or hell, I can just use the
> Logitech webcam & notebook I have on my desk and throw it up on
> Spotlife.com.  Network bandwidth in the hotel would be the issue.  Doug, you
> have any idea what we're dealing with?

You mean you can't just point a microwave link out a window? <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 04:11:20 2001
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From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
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Visit this URL for instructions in how to set your email to plain text
format.

http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/ncf/freeplace/freemail/plaintext.html

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 04:14:17 2001
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From: Antti Lahtinen <lahtinen@ee.tut.fi>
Subject: [TML] Re: Density of batteries?
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 > Quick question.. about how dense (in grams/cubic centimeter) are your
 > average household batteries?

         According to the datasheets for "Duracell" batteries, (the mass
         and dimensions of batteries can be found at www.duracell.com),
         the average battery density appears to be around 2.5 g/cm3. The
         energy density for the same batteries is around 1.2 - 1.5 kJ/cm3

-- 
       Antti Lahtinen                lahtinen@ee.tut.fi
       Researcher, MSc (Eng)         http://www.ee.tut.fi/~lahtinen

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 04:45:50 2001
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From: stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] OT : Icosahedriphobia [LONG]
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 11:48:01 GMT
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shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) writes:

>> To wit:  Helpless characters (such as one bound up tightly with his head on
>> the chopping block) can be killed in a single round regardless of hit

>And I remember when they *added* that rule to D&D. At least 5 years
>after it came out. (Note: I started playing with the first *printing*
>of first edition D&D. Back in 1974)

I can remember an article in White Dwarf where someone argued "Isn't
it ridiculous that a high-level and a low-level character, chained
side by side to a rock, can be toasted by a red dragon and one of them
will survive? Has finding x thousand gold pieces turned his skin to
asbestos?"  ...and Gary Gygax in person wrote in to say that yes,
those are the rules, that's the way the game is designed to be played.
"It's heroic fantasy, not realism"...

Stephen
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 07:50:34 2001
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From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
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Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Iccosahedraphobia
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 22:42:44 +0800
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-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of eris@pcola.gulf.net
Sent: Thursday, 12 April 2001 12:47 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Iccosahedraphobia


On 04/11/01 at 03:43 PM,  "Jeff Rowse" <jeffrowse@hotmail.com> said:

>Just my 0.02Cr's-worth.

>I believe someone else has mentioned T:TNE already, and I seem to
>recall  that the last MT "supplement" (darnit, I cannot remember
>what it was called!

_Survival Margin_

>  Arrggghh!)

I know the feeling. <g>

>...had a conversion 'ruleset' for transferring MT
>characters to  TNE.  And I believe there are several
>T:TNE had the great (IMNSHO) advantage that it was built on the
>same 'GDW  House' system as Twilight 2000 2nd.ed and Dark
>Conspiracy - which started  off as D10 but then 'mutated' into a
>D20 system...

Yep, and a pretty good system it is, too.


Eris

Well in my Traveller game, using TNE rules in a variant universe the players
just came into contact with a Pale from Dark Conspiracy. Took them quite a
while to work out what was happening, what with people being found dead of
exposure inside a starship.

Antony

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 07:59:20 2001
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Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 07:59:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] Converting Striker to Traveller, Nicely
To: tml@travellercentral.com
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Hey, I received my first Traveller game for Christmas 1981 (I'd played
it using a friend's copy in 1980).  But from the time I gained access
to the internet in 1994 until late last year, I couldn't figure out how
to join this list.  It wasn't like anyone had posted an easy-to-follow
set of instructions on how to subscribe.  Talk about being an
ultra-exclusive club...


--- Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >From: "Eric A. Rhude" <ateno@panix.com>
> 
> >I am just brand new to this group ( a whole day now), and 
> >have played Classic traveller since about 1981-1982.
> 
> Should his newbie essay be (1) set forth in detail how someone in the
> United States could play Traveller for 20 years and not become
> involved in
> the TML or (2) provide "a full explanation" of the Striker-Traveller
> conversion that his group has used?
> 
> --Glenn
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. 
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
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=====
Gerry Harris
**********************************************************************************************
Æther Traveller — http://www.aethertraveller.com 
Soldier's Companion — http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html
**********************************************************************************************
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war" — Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1
**********************************************************************************************

__________________________________________________
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 08:47:35 2001
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Hmm... you must have missed http://www.downport.com/understanding, which has
been there for over a year. Not to mention references on several other
website, including IG, SJG, BITS, Missouri Archive and Freelance Traveller.
Computer-0 for you :p

_________________________________
     The Traveller Trader
http://www.travellertrader.com
"The place to get that wonderful,
  out-of-print Traveller stuff!"
mailto:sales@travellertrader.com


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Gerry Harris

Hey, I received my first Traveller game for Christmas 1981 (I'd played
it using a friend's copy in 1980).  But from the time I gained access
to the internet in 1994 until late last year, I couldn't figure out how
to join this list.  It wasn't like anyone had posted an easy-to-follow
set of instructions on how to subscribe.  Talk about being an
ultra-exclusive club...


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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 09:21:05 2001
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Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 09:15:22 -0700
To: tml@travellercentral.com
From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: [TML] Baycon
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.4.10.10104112032210.13193-100000@jade.hut.fi>
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At 08:37 PM 04/11/01 +0300, you wrote:

>Hm, perhaps the time of the party could also be useful. Preferably in
>some comprehensible units, like GMT. B-)

The main party will be on Saturday, May 26th, starting at 2100hrs Pacific
Daylight Time, and run until we get tired.  We'll be doing a second party
on Sunday night, mopre of a "eat all this food so we don't have to haul it
home" thing.

>And mayhaps an open IRC client (and a party channel?) could be used, too.
>Webcam feed is a bit much for my home connection. B-)

Kirsten is checking with the hotelliason for information on connections and
phone rates.

To be honest, all a webcam would pick up is shots of a (hopefully) crowded
room.
--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 09:26:05 2001
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Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 09:24:56 -0700
To: tml@travellercentral.com
From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] First Blood in Classic Traveller
In-Reply-To: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCKEIGCDAA.andy@exeus.com>
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At 11:21 PM 04/11/01 +0100, you wrote:

>The "First Blood" rule is unclear to me, in retrospect. Since
>characteristics cannot be negative, the 7 points over must surely be applied
>to another characteristic, right ? If so, then he's down and out for the
>count on an average roll.

The rule in Book 1 is poorly written.  It states that the first wound is
applied to a single characteristic, and then mentions that wounds that take
a char. below zero are applied to different attributes.

>Remember the average of 4D damage for a Snub Pistol loaded with HEAP is 14.
>Joe Average, UPP 777777 would therefore be at zero in two characteristics
>from a normal hit.

Half the time.  Important difference!

>The chance of rolling 14+ on 4D is 55.6% according to the table at the back
>of LBB0 (An Introduction To Traveller). You therefore have a 1 in 2 chance
>of wounding someone so badly that (a) they won't get up and (b) without
>medical attention, they're dead.

Yes, with a high explosive round.  Using a 7.62mm rifle firing ball ammo,
you have a 16% chance of doing this, and no chance of an outright kill.  I
used a 7.62mm in the service, and this is *very* wrong.

By the way, anybody find the rules for autoweapons fire?  :)

>Of course, you might be lucky without First Blood - each of the 4D is
>treated as an individual cluster of hits, so you might be able to stay at 1+
>in each of Str, Dex and End.

Or, you might roll 6 or less on the first hit.  Weirder things have happened.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 09:32:58 2001
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From: "Bruce Macintosh" <bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
References: <200104120602.f3C62ih16601@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Subject: [TML] You people think you can hide?
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 09:38:01 -0700
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I was away for a week and, like many, many, apparently missed the automatic
handover. So, you people think you can hide from me, do you? Ha! You
forget who you're dealing with! I am the sensor guru! My instrumentation
can spot a pirate corsair lurking in the Oort cloud! Your evasive tactics
are as nothing to me! Ha! HAHAHAHA!

(ahem.)

Glad I found the list. Now all I need to do is find time to keep reading it...

Bruce


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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 10:03:53 2001
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Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 10:03:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com>
Subject: [TML] Re: Fwd: Starting The Game Days Again
To: a a tml Tod <tml@travellercentral.com>,
   traveller mailing aa list <traveller@lists.ient.com>
Cc: jfox@verity.com
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>From: John Fox <jfox@verity.com>

>  When is the group going to start playing Traveller again?
>  A better wustion would be "Is there going to be a traveller RPG there 
>that day?"

We anticipate re-starting my Regina Subsector Special Police campaign, set
on Regina just after the Fifth Frontier War, using Megatraveller rules
(mostly).

--Glenn

__________________________________________________
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 10:08:28 2001
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Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 10:08:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [TML] Confused about Law Levels...(CT)
To: a a tml Tod <tml@travellercentral.com>
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>From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com>

>Funny thing is that in the real world the development of the traditional
>eastern martial arts was as response to the high law level prohibiting
>individuals from owning swords and other types of weapons. Most martial 
>arts weapons, like the sai and tonfa, were farm implements that were
>adapted to become weapons for those who were not allowed weapons.

That's just my point:  At extremely high law levels, the disarming of the
weaponless classes goes to the next level, so that even learning to use
the natural weapons of the body is prohibited.  

--Glenn

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 10:08:58 2001
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From: WLane@syncata.com
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Backups (was Instrumentation)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 10:07:53 -0700
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Hi,

>>Further to William Lane's query from a week or two ago (old TML!!):
>>>the only difference between the holographic system and the manual system
>>>is that it will allow the user faster reaction times.

>I replied:
>>Actually, this is part of later MT info (a rule change, not errata! ;-).
>>Holo-dynamic controls give a bonus to initiative, I believe (I'll have
>>to look this up!).

>Well, I finally looked this up. It's in the Q&A from Travellers' Digest 19
>(BTW, I wonder if the questioner "B.B." is Bryan Borich??):

<snip>

You know When I said that I was making an extrapolation on what I felt the
main benefit of Holographic systems would provide. I'm glad to see Canon
agrees with me 8P

On a side not back to the Instrumentation discussion. I did make a reply
that never made it to the thread. I believe it was sent after the system
came off line.

Anyway it was in regards to the backup systems.

Someone seemed to believe that when I spoke of back up systems I was
referring to pulleys levers and all sorts of hardware controlled systems.
this is not what I was talking about.

In my universe all ships have 3 computers. a main and 2 back ups. Now lets
say The "Mahina Tiare" was upgraded to a holographic system. her main and
primary back ups would be identical. However her secondary back up would be
a very basic computer. what I envision is this. She Loses both main and
Prime Back up she is on secondary back up. all the switches that the primary
and main would have "electronically" thrown would now have to be manually
thrown. 

Imagine ship is on secondary back up heading to nearest safe landing. the
following takes place.

Jenny "Pilot we are in the corridor for orbital insertion. Please roll the
ship right to 060 and null your rates."

Pilot "Affirm. rolling right 060 and nulling rates"

jenny gets on the "sound powered" com system and says Engineering this is
the bridge. Stand by for orbital insertion in 5 mins 34 secs."

Renee "Affirm Jen. OI in 5 min 34 secs"

Jenny "Now receiving final OI information from the Navigation computer."

Jenny "Pilot Please enter the following into the guidance control system.
Noun 012, verb 700 enter. noun 245 enter."

Pilot "Noun 012, verb 700 enter. Noun 245 enter. Affirm"

Jenny "Engineering this is the bridge please Switch SCE to Aux for computer
synchronization"

Renee "Affirm SCE to Auxiliary"


Basically if a ship is down to its secondary back up computer they should
not even be considering a jump (as it was suggested). they should be finding
a nice safe place to land to make repairs. 

Buy manual back up what I mean is that the crew will be physically required
to flip the switches that the computer would have "electronically" flipped.
If a ship is being upgraded to a holographic system then the original
control panels are already there. There really is no reason why they cant be
left in place for the back up. do they take up space yes. but not that much
and the holographic system probably wont take up that much more. all it
needs is room for the emitters.

I was not talking about pulleys and levers to do engine burns 8P.

Oh on a side note Sound powered phones already exist. the US navy uses them
and they don't require ships power to operate. so again I think they would
be a good back up com system.

Hasta

Bill

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<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2653.12">
<TITLE>Backups (was Instrumentation)</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hi,</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;&gt;Further to William Lane's query from a week =
or two ago (old TML!!):</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;&gt;&gt;the only difference between the =
holographic system and the manual system</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;&gt;&gt;is that it will allow the user faster =
reaction times.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;I replied:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;&gt;Actually, this is part of later MT info (a =
rule change, not errata! ;-).</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;&gt;Holo-dynamic controls give a bonus to =
initiative, I believe (I'll have</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;&gt;to look this up!).</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;Well, I finally looked this up. It's in the =
Q&amp;A from Travellers' Digest 19</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;(BTW, I wonder if the questioner =
&quot;B.B.&quot; is Bryan Borich??):</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&lt;snip&gt;</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>You know When I said that I was making an =
extrapolation on what I felt the main benefit of Holographic systems =
would provide. I'm glad to see Canon agrees with me 8P</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>On a side not back to the Instrumentation discussion. =
I did make a reply that never made it to the thread. I believe it was =
sent after the system came off line.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Anyway it was in regards to the backup =
systems.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Someone seemed to believe that when I spoke of back =
up systems I was referring to pulleys levers and all sorts of hardware =
controlled systems. this is not what I was talking about.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>In my universe all ships have 3 computers. a main and =
2 back ups. Now lets say The &quot;Mahina Tiare&quot; was upgraded to a =
holographic system. her main and primary back ups would be identical. =
However her secondary back up would be a very basic computer. what I =
envision is this. She Loses both main and Prime Back up she is on =
secondary back up. all the switches that the primary and main would =
have &quot;electronically&quot; thrown would now have to be manually =
thrown. </FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Imagine ship is on secondary back up heading to =
nearest safe landing. the following takes place.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Jenny &quot;Pilot we are in the corridor for orbital =
insertion. Please roll the ship right to 060 and null your =
rates.&quot;</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Pilot &quot;Affirm. rolling right 060 and nulling =
rates&quot;</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>jenny gets on the &quot;sound powered&quot; com =
system and says Engineering this is the bridge. Stand by for orbital =
insertion in 5 mins 34 secs.&quot;</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Renee &quot;Affirm Jen. OI in 5 min 34 =
secs&quot;</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Jenny &quot;Now receiving final OI information from =
the Navigation computer.&quot;</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Jenny &quot;Pilot Please enter the following into the =
guidance control system. Noun 012, verb 700 enter. noun 245 =
enter.&quot;</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Pilot &quot;Noun 012, verb 700 enter. Noun 245 enter. =
Affirm&quot;</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Jenny &quot;Engineering this is the bridge please =
Switch SCE to Aux for computer synchronization&quot;</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Renee &quot;Affirm SCE to Auxiliary&quot;</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Basically if a ship is down to its secondary back up =
computer they should not even be considering a jump (as it was =
suggested). they should be finding a nice safe place to land to make =
repairs. </FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Buy manual back up what I mean is that the crew will =
be physically required to flip the switches that the computer would =
have &quot;electronically&quot; flipped. If a ship is being upgraded to =
a holographic system then the original control panels are already =
there. There really is no reason why they cant be left in place for the =
back up. do they take up space yes. but not that much and the =
holographic system probably wont take up that much more. all it needs =
is room for the emitters.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I was not talking about pulleys and levers to do =
engine burns 8P.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Oh on a side note Sound powered phones already exist. =
the US navy uses them and they don't require ships power to operate. so =
again I think they would be a good back up com system.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hasta</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Bill</FONT>
</P>

</BODY>
</HTML>
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 10:18:48 2001
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From: "Pronto" <pronto_r031@telus.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
References: <200104120602.f3C62ih16601@rhylanor.cordite.com> <000c01c0c36e$f377afa0$2c41510c@0tk0e>
Subject: Re: [TML] You people think you can hide?
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 10:16:07 -0700
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From: "Bruce Macintosh" <bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net>



> I was away for a week and, like many, many, apparently missed the
automatic
> handover. So, you people think you can hide from me, do you? Ha! You
> forget who you're dealing with! I am the sensor guru! My instrumentation
> can spot a pirate corsair lurking in the Oort cloud! Your evasive tactics
> are as nothing to me! Ha! HAHAHAHA!
>
> (ahem.)
>
> Glad I found the list. Now all I need to do is find time to keep reading
it...
>
> Bruce
>
What? You didn't see the note we left on your door?   Hmmmm....



For sale: Parachute, only used once, never opened, small stain.
Pronto
AKA Brian Taylor


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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 10:22:40 2001
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Subject: Re: [TML] You people think you can hide?
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At 09:38 AM 04/12/01 -0700, you wrote:
>I was away for a week and, like many, many, apparently missed the automatic
>handover. So, you people think you can hide from me, do you? Ha! You
>forget who you're dealing with! I am the sensor guru! My instrumentation
>can spot a pirate corsair lurking in the Oort cloud! Your evasive tactics
>are as nothing to me! Ha! HAHAHAHA!

TO: The Council of Elders

FROM: Agent Penguin

SUBJECT: Bruce

Subject has fallen for our "fake TML" ruse.  Suggest we follow the original
plan, and change hosts weekly for the next year.  By that time, no one will
believe him when he reports what he is scheduled to witness outside
Flagstaff on 9/9/2002.

Fnord.
-- 

Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com
  http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html

"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is that I am now a
perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague here is rapidly running out of
limbs!"  - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 10:31:13 2001
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From: Pat Berry <pberry@nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] Converting Striker to Traveller, Nicely
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At 09:34 AM 4/11/01 -0700, Glenn Goffin wrote:

> >From: "Eric A. Rhude" <ateno@panix.com>
>
> >I am just brand new to this group ( a whole day now), and
> >have played Classic traveller since about 1981-1982.
>
>Should his newbie essay be (1) set forth in detail how someone in the
>United States could play Traveller for 20 years and not become involved in
>the TML or (2) provide "a full explanation" of the Striker-Traveller
>conversion that his group has used?

I should probably mention that I'm also new here.  I played Classic 
Traveller off and on throughout the 1980s,  and a weird 
Traveller/Metamorphosis Alpha/Champions hybrid off and on during the 1990s 
(the campaign finally ended last year).  I'm currently working, in fits and 
starts, on a GURPS Traveller campaign for a group of players who mostly 
have played only D&D.

And no, I'm not related to Chris or Doug Berry.

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 10:32:02 2001
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From: Pat Berry <pberry@nc.rr.com>
Subject: RE: [TML] OT : Icosahedriphobia [LONG]
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At 07:58 PM 4/11/01 +0100, Andy Brick wrote:

>A
>fighter, who having missed his saving throw, gets hit by a falling rock,
>should not be able to bring "hit points" to his defence if they partially
>represent his skill and expertise with a two handed sword.

But they don't.  Hit points (after the first hit die or two) represent his 
generalized skill at avoiding damage.  They aren't tied to any specific weapon.

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Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 00:49:28 -0400
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From: Pat Berry <pberry@nc.rr.com>
Subject: RE: [TML] OT : Icosahedriphobia [LONG]
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At 04:14 PM 4/11/01 +0100, Andy Brick wrote:

>Oh, hogwash. Your fighter has 67hp, and gets hit by a rock, and takes 30hp
>damage in D&D. End of argument. The fact that his 67hp represent his
>experience at least in part is suddenly (and conveniently) forgotten. _This_
>is the case in D&D and always has been.

The published rules do not support your assertion.  AD&D 1st Edition DM 
Guide, page 82:

"It is quite unreasonable to assume that as a character gains levels of 
ability in his or her class that a corresponding gain in actual ability to 
sustain physical damage takes place.  It is preposterous to state such an 
assumption, for if we are to assume that a man is killed by a sword thrust 
which does 4 hit points of damage, we must similarly assume that a hero 
could, on the average, withstand five such thrusts before being slain!"

It goes on to suggest that, at most, 23 hit points could represent the 
physical makeup of a high-level character with constitution 18, and that 
any additional hit points represent something else.  While the DMG could 
have done a better job of providing a mechanic for adjudicating cases like 
the one you describe, the intent is sufficiently clear.  The non-physical 
value of the hit points is not, as you say, forgotten; it is explicitly 
pointed out.

AD&D 2nd Edition DM Guide, page 104:

"There are occasions when death is unavoidable, no matter how many hit 
points a character has.  [Describes several examples similar to yours.]  . 
. . If a situation of inescapable death occurs, the character dies, and 
there is no need to play such a situation out round-by-round. . . The 
doomed character is assumed to have lost all hit points."  The same page 
also provides rules for the possibility of instant death from massive 
damage, regardless of character hit points.

In any event, the D20 engine is not based on the 1st or 2nd Editions, so 
their handling of this situation is irrelevant to your original criticism.

D&D 3rd Edition Player's Handbook, page 128:

"Hit points mean two things in the game world: the ability to take physical 
punishment and keep going, and the ability to turn a serious blow into a 
less serious one.  A 10th-level fighter who has taken 50 points of damage 
is not as badly hurt as a 10th-level wizard who has taken than much damage. 
. . . Why the difference?  Partly because the fighter is better at rolling 
with the punches, protecting vital areas, and dodging just enough that a 
blow that would be fatal only wounds him."  Page 66 of the DM Guide 
provides rules for instant death from massive damage, regardless of 
character hit points.

So I don't think your claim that the dual nature of hit points is "suddenly 
and conveniently forgotten" is justified.  In every edition of AD&D, that 
dual nature has been explicitly pointed out.  If a high-level character 
withstands what seems to be an impossible amount of damage, that's because 
most of the damage never happened.  The character's highly developed combat 
skills enabled him to avoid most of it.  This is the concept represented by 
hit points.  If some *players* forget it in the heat of combat, that's 
unfortunate -- but the rules do not forget about it.

I don't mean to be unsympathetic here.  I think what you're really 
objecting to is the abstract way in which combat damage is handled.  And, 
in fact, I find the D&D hit point system to be somewhat unsatisfactory 
myself.  But when I played Classic Traveller, I found that game's system 
for handling damage equally abstract and unsatisfactory.  This is a matter 
of taste, and not objective evidence that one game is "inferior" to another.

>Furthermore, if this was a glancing blow and only did say 6 pts of damage,
>the fighter takes this damage _regardless_ of the sort of armour he's
>wearing. In Traveller, you could assign a Pen/Atten rating to the rock ; in
>RuneQuest, the armour would absorb some of the damage depending on type -
>but in d20, the armour is suddenly irrelevant. Explain that one.

There's nothing to explain, since the armor is not irrelevant.  If the 
armor is tough enough to make a difference, then it prevents *all* of the 
damage.  You may not find this a satisfactory way of representing armor, 
but it *is* represented.

> > There is no difference.  in D&D, a "hit" is not a blow that makes physical
> > contact; it's a blow that inflicts damage.
>
>Exactly my point - in D&D you either do or you don't. There is no scope for
>"almost", which reduces the realism somewhat (on which point, more below).

Yes, it does.  All RPG combat systems reduce the realism of physical injury 
in various ways, or they would read like medical textbooks.  This is a good 
thing, since games that strive for perfect realism are so complex as to be 
unplayable.  Traveller did not fall into this trap, and neither does D&D.

> > Have you *read* the D&D 3E rules?  Saving throws are based *directly* on
>ability scores.
>
>I did say "may well be", I don't have the rules to hand. In any case, I'd
>rather have some make a dex task, or a dodge roll, or whatever - at least
>then it has some relation to "getting out of the way".

What would be the difference, other than calling the die roll by a 
different name?

> > How *realistic* was the combat system in CT?
>
>You got shot, you pretty much died there and then. I'd say that was good
>enough for me.

Aren't you the guy who, a couple of paragraphs ago, was condemning D&D for 
taking an all-or-nothing, you-either-do-or-you-don't approach to 
armor?  Why does this suddenly become a virtue when applied to wounding and 
death?

>The more abstract, the more it relies on the referee, the easier
>it is to make unfair decisions, even accidentally, ... this is the path to
>the Dark Side ...

I don't find that argument at all convincing.  First of all, if you have an 
evil referee who is determined to screw you, no rule system ever devised 
will prevent him from doing so.  Second, I have been playing D&D nonstop 
for 23 years, in three different editions, and have had no problems with 
that sort of DM abuse -- because I don't play with that kind of DM.

> > It's the Traveller background and history that
> > matter to me.
>
>And that Traveller history and background is upset if you change the rules
>and hence the balance of situations - that point about the FGMP someone else
>made recently comes to mind. It's like revising the vehicle design system so
>that a ship component has less mass - the knock on effect is that it can
>further or faster, and that might change the balance in starship combat.

That sort of stuff is just not very important to me.  I don't find the 
transition from CT to GURPS Traveller to have upset the history and 
background -- if the hardware works somewhat differently, so what?  But, as 
I've said, I'm not a gearhead.  The ships and weapons are just set dressing 
as far as I'm concerned.  Characters, stories, and adventure are what I 
care about.

> > If, ten years from now, the only version of Traveller in print is a d20
> > one, that's what I'll use.
>
>Good for you. I won't be.

I'm sorry to hear that.  I don't know what else there is to say.

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 10:32:05 2001
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Subject: RE: [TML] OT : Icosahedriphobia
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At 04:45 PM 4/11/01 +0100, Andy Brick wrote:

>I guess my real question is -
>
>Why change rules systems ? What do people think is so _wrong_ with d6
>Traveller (be it C:T, Mega or T4) that it can only be fixed with a complete
>rewrite (TNE, GURPS, d20) ? Is it really that
>unplayable/complex/unfair/out-of-date/whatever ?

No, not at all.  And I would never urge any Traveller player who already 
has the Classic rulebooks and is happy with them to change.  But not every 
player is in that situation.

For new players, starting from scratch, the question is not "Why change?", 
because for them there is no existing base to change from.  Instead, the 
question is, "Which version of Traveller should I use?"  When I decided to 
introduce my D&D group to Traveller, I chose to go with the GURPS version 
for two reasons: (1) It is widely available, which makes life easier both 
for me and my players (who can probably get by with just GURPS Lite, or at 
most the GURPS Basic Set).  (2) It's the only Traveller version for which 
new materials are being developed and published.

If I had had an extensive library of CT materials, I might have made a 
different decision.  But my previous experience with Traveller was all as a 
player rather than a referee, so I had only the CT hardcover Traveller 
Book.  And I can still use that as inspirational material even if the rules 
no longer apply to my campaign.

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Subject: Re: [TML] OT : Icosahedriphobia [LONG]
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At 11:27 PM 4/11/01 -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:

[Doug Berry wrote:]

> > To wit:  Helpless characters (such as one bound up tightly with his head on
> > the chopping block) can be killed in a single round regardless of hit
> > points.  All the HP in the world aren't going to stop that axe from
> > severing your head from the rest of your body.
>
>And I remember when they *added* that rule to D&D. At least 5 years
>after it came out. (Note: I started playing with the first *printing*
>of first edition D&D. Back in 1974)
>
>Also, *you* said "any version of D&D". Quoting 3rd edition AD&D doesn't
>prove anything about *other* versions.

Oh no . . . it's started already.

No, that was me.  I'm the one who made that sweeping and incorrect 
statement about all versions of D&D.  Despite the last name, Doug Berry and 
I are not the same person, and he's not to blame for my mistakes.

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From: Pat Berry <pberry@nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] OT : Icosahedriphobia [LONG]
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At 10:21 AM 4/11/01 -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:

>In mail you write:
>
> >>Hit Points - These should not be related to experience. At least if they
> >>are, why should an expert fighter be able to apply them (representing his
> >>skill at dodging sword blows et al) to say, a falling rock that takes 
> him by
> >>surprise ?
> >
> > He can't.  He has never been able to, in any version of D&D.  The rules
> > make that quite clear.
>
>Want to bet? In first edition D&D they sure as hell *did* apply to that
>sort of damage.

Hmm.  After looking at the 1st Edition rules again, I think I have to agree 
with you.  They didn't specifically address the question of damage from 
attacks that the character couldn't anticipate.

However, since Andy originally brought this up as a criticism of the D20 
engine, versions of D&D prior to 3rd Edition aren't really relevant, and I 
shouldn't have included them in my statement.

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Subject: RE: [TML] RE:  (OT) Icosahedriphobia
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At 08:08 PM 4/11/01 +0100, Andy Brick wrote:

>Tho' I must admit that I see no reason to change the existing d6 mechanics,
>either.

It's not clear to me what you mean by "change."  The CT rules are a part of 
history, beyond anyone's power to change.  If MegaTraveller, The New Era, 
Traveller 4, and GURPS Traveller didn't alter them, how could the 
publication of a D20 version do so?  The original d6 mechanic will always 
exist, for those who want to use it.

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Subject: Re: [TML] OT : Icosahedriphobia
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At 10:40 AM 4/12/01 +0100, Peter Trevor wrote:

>Pat Berry wrote:
> > > Change the game mechanic and these extrapolations become
> > > invalidated.
> >
> > That is certainly a significant consideration for some players
> > of the game.  But not everyone who plays Traveller is a gearhead.
>
>In addition to gearheads and non-gearheads there's also  a  third
>group: non-gearheads who flesh out their TUs with the  work  done
>by gearheads.

Good point -- and, in fact, that's a pretty accurate description of how I 
operate.

>I consider myself  to  be  mainly  in  this  third
>group.   So  the  last  thing  I  want  is  yet  another  set  of
>incompatable canon: it dilutes the creative effort of the TML.

And of Traveller development in general.  I agree.

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To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Smart Fabrics
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 10:33:16 -0700
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Glenn,

Fantastic. thanks i was looking for more things to give my players to =
mess
around with.=20

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: Glenn Grant [mailto:neo@total.net]
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 10:37 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Smart Fabrics


Something I wrote up recently for my campaign...
-- Some of this information is based on Greg Porter's _Central Supply=20
Catalogue_.
-- This uses Trav Tech Levels, not GURPS.

Your comments are welcomed.

Enjoy,

  +GMG+
--------------------

Smart Fabrics
-------------

Consumers in high-tech societies may select from a bewildering=20
variety of options when shopping for clothing or other items made=20
from fabric, such as tents and bags.  A scanner booth generates a 3D=20
model of the shopper, which can be saved to a smart card or personal=20
organizer.  Provided with this model, automated manufacturing=20
equipment (often located in the store) can produce any requested=20
garment within a few hours--sometimes minutes--custom-fitted to the=20
shopper's measurements, and integrating the selected features.

A single Smart Fabric can have a maximum number of optional=20
capabilities equal to its TL minus 8.  Thus, TL9 Smart Fabric can=20
have only 1 capability, TL15 up to 7 capabilities.

All costs, masses and stored volumes listed below are for a full suit=20
(for a typical human), or per 1m2 of Smart Fabric, and are *in=20
addition* to the cost, mass and volume of the Basic Fabric itself..=20
For a jacket alone, halve the mass, volume and cost.  Divide or=20
multiply cost as appropriate for gloves, footwear, headgear,=20
backpacks, tents, etc.

Except as noted, most options require tiny rechargeable batteries,=20
which are included in the price. Most clothing designs include=20
discrete pockets for batteries and various personal electronic items=20
such as Comms.

All Smart Fabric features break down over time from wear and tear,=20
especially from cleaning. They eventually become inoperable, some=20
faster than others.  Video Fabric-12 will become blurry and illegible=20
after perhaps only 30 days' use and cleaning, while Variable=20
Colour-12 will last much longer.  Higher TL materials are longer=20
lasting.

Smart Fabrics should be washed only by cleaning technologies of equal=20
or higher Tech Level; lower-tech methods will damage or destroy them.

These materials cannot be properly tailored at home by the consumer=20
without a special skill and expensive computer-driven equipment.

Some options cannot be combined in the same fabric, such as=20
Electro-Adhesive and Touch-Sensitive (because the adhesive area=20
cannot also be touch-sensitive).

Some combinations of options are redundant, e.g. Video Display=20
includes Electroluminescent, while Optical Chameleon includes both=20
Variable Color and Variable Shade.

			Mass	Cost	Stored Vol.
Basic Fabric-9		1kg	10Cr	1 liter
	Full suit or 1m2 of fabric.  Optional capabilities are=20
detailed below.=A0 Computer circuitry is integrated into the weave of=20
all Smart Fabrics, giving them a specialized computational Rating of=20
1; i.e., Video Display fabric is R1 for video display tasks, R0 for=20
all others.  (For higher ratings, see "Computational Array-13-15",=20
below.)

Smart Fabric Options, by Tech Level:

Motion Capture-9		--	100Cr	--
	Captures body-motion data to any computer, for VR and=20
tele-operation applications. Does not provide tactile or force=20
feedback.

Phosphorescent-9		--	50Cr	--
	Absorbs sunlight and glows for several hours.  Once charged,=20
the fabric's phosphors cannot be "turned off", and will continue to=20
glow until their energy is dissipated.

Thermo-Electric-9		0.25kg	300Cr	0.25 liter
	Self-heating and -cooling.  Uses between 100 and 1000w,=20
depending on conditions, and requires a power source.=20
('Photoelectric' option is usually sufficient to power only the=20
lowest settings.)

Electro-Adhesive-10	0.3kg	1000Cr	0.3 liter
	Becomes extremely sticky under a small current; otherwise=20
non-sticky. Usually applied only to the soles of footwear for use in=20
microgravity (see 'Stickyfeet', CSC pg 15), or to the palms and=20
fingers of gloves, providing added traction in climbing, for example.=20
A bolt of Electro-Adhesive material, fixed to the ground and fitted=20
with a motion-detector, could be used as a humane trap for small=20
animals. Designed into carpet, it will seriously hinder intruders,=20
but not authorized personnel.  Mass and price shown are for a full=20
suit, or 1m2; use 5-10% for Sticky-feet/gloves. Sticky-patches must=20
be replaced regularly at 500Cr per suit (or per m2).

Variable Color-10,12	--	25Cr	--
	Varies within a spectrum between any two primary colors, at a=20
set tonal value (i.e. light, medium, or dark), unless combined with=20
Variable Shade option. At TL12, varies across nearly the full colour=20
spectrum, at a set tonal value.  Able to display various patterns=20
(pinstripes, checkers, dots) and large-size text, but refreshes=20
slowly (about once per second).  Not a useful video or computer=20
display.

Variable Shade-10		--	25Cr	--
	Varies within a spectrum of tonal values from dark to light,=20
within a single color (unless combined with Variable Color option).=20
See previous.

Water Shedding-10		--	50Cr	--
	Breaths easily, but waterproof under most wet-weather=20
conditions.  Actively channels water from the interior to the=20
exterior surface.  Water-shedding fabric is not waterproof when fully=20
immersed, but will dry itself rapidly even after being soaked through.

Biomonitors-11		0.3kg	400Cr	0.3 litres
	Captures the wearer's body temperature, blood pressure, pulse=20
rate, and respiration rate.

Electroluminescent-11	--	70Cr	--
	Produces light in a fixed color of variable intensity.=20
Variable colors at TL12+.  At maximum intensity, illuminates up to=20
10m radius for about 1 hour on a small battery.  Will glow at lower=20
intensity for several days, or can be connected to a continuous power=20
source.  Can flash to attract attention, and display various patterns=20
or simple static messages in large text, but is not a useful video=20
display.

Sound Emitting/Capturing-11	--	200Cr	--
	Can rigidify circular panels which vibrate to produce sound.=20
Also receives sound through smaller panels that act as microphones.=20
Quality of sound output and reception tends to vary with the size of=20
panel, and how firmly anchored it is--i.e. a "Sound-Shirt" can=20
reproduce human speech recognizably with some distortion, while a=20
"Boom-Bedsheet" stapled to a wall will cleanly reproduce music with=20
heavy bass and clean high frequencies.  Requires 5w to 200w power,=20
depending on volume and size.

Variable Opacity-11	--	100Cr	--
	Varies from opaque to nearly-transparent.  Tends to be more=20
popular with the fashion industry than with the general public.

Video Display-11		--	100Cr	--
	Low-resolution RGB fibre-optic weave. Requires video input=20
from camera, Comm, or recording (not included). Otherwise same=20
capabilities as Electroluminescent.

Force Feedback-12		0.5kg	1000Cr	0.5 liter
	Flexes to provide limited tactile/force feedback for=20
tele-operation or VR.

Optical Chameleon-12	0.25kg	500Cr	0.25 liter
	Medium-resolution variable-color display material.=20
Short-range moving images collected by sensors on one side of garment=20
are displayed on the opposite side, to camoflage the wearer.  Confers=20
+2 DM to surprise rolls when stationary, +1 when moving (+3,+2 in=20
darkness), and DM-1 to spot with optical sensors.  Can also be used=20
as medium-resolution Video Display.

Photoelectric-12		0.25kg	20Cr	0.25 liter
	Generates power when exposed to sunlight. Output varies with=20
conditions, but assuming an Atmos 6 world, 1AU from a G0v sun: a full=20
suit will generate about 100w (250w at TL14).  A 1m2 area entirely=20
exposed to the same light will generate about 300w (650w at TL14).=20
Even the slightest cloud cover drastically cuts the output. In=20
vacuum, will generate at least three times as many watts.

Computational Array-13-15	1kg	700Cr	1 liter
	Provides a higher computation rating than Basic Fabric by=20
increasing the density of circuitry and connecting regions of the=20
fabric into an array.  Specialized Rating R2 at TL13, R3 at TL15.

Self-Repairing-12		--	300Cr	--
	Self-repairs minor splits, tears, abrasions, etc.

Touch Sensitive-12		--	100Cr	--
	Haptic transducers in the fabric partially extend the=20
wearer's sense of touch to the exterior of their clothes.  Senses=20
heat, cold, moisture, impacts, and texture, though much less acutely=20
than human skin. Requires sensory jack implant (not included). Touch=20
Fabric has the strange effect of making one's clothes feel as if they=20
were literally part of one's body, thus providing a heightened=20
awareness of one's surroundings. Applied to bulky armor, reduces DEX=20
penalty by 1, with practice.  Extremely useful when applied to the=20
exterior of vac suits or other bulky hazardous-environment gear.

Toxin Filtering-12		--	500Cr	--
	Filters a range of known toxins from atmosphere.  Commonly=20
found in filter suits (CSC pg 12).

Variable Rigidity-12	1kg	1000Cr	1 liter
	Can instantly rigidify when impact sensors are triggered,=20
conferring an armor rating of r1 versus subsequent impacts (DM of -1=20
to DEX tasks when rigid).  Can save the wearer's life in a fall.=20
TL14+ versions include proximity sensors that can predict some=20
impending impacts before they occur (on a roll of TL or less on 3D).

Variable Shape-12		0.5kg	100Cr	0.5 liter
	Varies cut, fit, and style of garment within a limited range.=20
With this feature, loose garments can become snug and skintight,=20
hemlines can shorten or lengthen by a few centimeters, lapels can=20
widen or disappear, etc.  But a dress cannot transmogrify into pants=20
or a shirt.

Variable Reflectivity-13	--	300Cr	--
	Varies from matte to mirror-like. Mirror mode provides armor=20
rating f1 against laser weapons, but is very easy to spot with=20
optical sensing, even at night.  This feature is commonly used in=20
environments with extreme temperature ranges.

Thermal Chameleon-13	0.25kg	500Cr	0.25 liter
	Similar to Optical Chameleon, but operates in the IR spectrum=20
to break up the wearer's heat signature and imitate surrounding=20
heat-imagery (-2 to spot with thermal sensors).

Self-Cleaning-15		--	1000Cr	--
	Actively breaks down and sheds virtually all foreign material=20
trapped in or on the fabric, especially organic matter.  Though not=20
completely impervious to grime, it can be worn continuously for up to=20
five days without acquiring a noticeable odor.  However, under-layers=20
of synthetics must be worn, because Self-Cleaning Fabric will likely=20
identify hair as dead organic material, leaving the wearer's body=20
virtually hairless!  It will also degrade organic cloth in close=20
contact with it.


Typical Smart-Fabric Suits
--------------------------

Work/Leisure Outfit-11=A0	1kg	110Cr	1 liter
	Variable color, variable shade, water shedding.  A dark,=20
conservative suit at the office, transforms into colorful casual-wear=20
for dinner, loose or skintight as desired.

Dance Club Gear-12=A0	1.5kg	410Cr	2 liters
	Video display, sound, biomonitors , variable opacity.  Sound=20
panels tie into the club's sound system, putting you literally inside=20
the music.  Video display reacts to biomonitor data with flashes of=20
color and light in sync with your body's rhythms.  Opaque or=20
translucent, depending on your mood, inhibitions, and respect for=20
local custom.

Immersive Media-Suit-12=A0	1.5kg	1410Cr	1.5 liters
	Motion-capture, force feedback, sound, touch sensitive.  For=20
VR or tele-operation use.  Touch Fabric provides the illusion that=20
the suit isn't even there.

Covert Ops Bodysuit-13	1.5kg	1160Cr	1 liter
	Water shedding, opto/thermal chameleon, variable shape. Crawl=20
through the swamp, avoid the sentry-bots, set the charges, and slip=20
back to the black-tie reception without even stopping to change=20
clothes.

Adventure Climber-14	2kg	2000Cr	3 liters
	Thermo-electric, water shedding, electroluminescent,=20
self-repair, photoelectric (generates about 250w); sticky-shoes &=20
-gloves.  The glow of your climbing suit will help the rescue teams=20
find you when you get stuck half-way up the crater wall.

Exploration Suit-15	2.5kg	2860Cr	3 liters
	Thermo-electric, water shedding, biomonitors, self-repair,=20
optical chameleon, variable rigidity, variable reflectivity.  What=20
the obsessively well-outfitted Scout is wearing this season.


Typical Smart-Fabric Gear
--------------------------
Backpack-12		1kg	200Cr	2 liters, empty
	Water shedding, variable opacity, self-repairing. De-opaque=20
your pack and find out at a glance where you stowed your=20
socks--without having to unpack everything else.  Increases=20
Encumbrance limit by 20%. Capacity: 30 litres, 80kg.

Utility Vest-14		3kg	1500Cr	3 liters, empty
	Water shedding, optical chameleon, photoelectric,=20
self-repair, touch sensitive, variable rigidity, variable shape.=20
Pocket capacity: 12 liters.

Ultra Tarpaulin-12	4kg	32KCr	4 liters
	5 x 10m; electroluminescent, variable opacity, optical=20
chameleon, photoelectric (generates about 650w per m2 exposed to=20
sunlight).  Perhaps the most expensive way to cover a campsite ever=20
invented!
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Glenn,</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Fantastic. thanks i was looking for more things to give my players to mess around with. </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Bill</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: Glenn Grant [<A HREF="mailto:neo@total.net">mailto:neo@total.net</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 10:37 PM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: tml@travellercentral.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: [TML] Smart Fabrics</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Something I wrote up recently for my campaign...</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>-- Some of this information is based on Greg Porter's _Central Supply </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Catalogue_.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>-- This uses Trav Tech Levels, not GURPS.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Your comments are welcomed.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Enjoy,</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>&nbsp; +GMG+</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>--------------------</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Smart Fabrics</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>-------------</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Consumers in high-tech societies may select from a bewildering </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>variety of options when shopping for clothing or other items made </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>from fabric, such as tents and bags.&nbsp; A scanner booth generates a 3D </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>model of the shopper, which can be saved to a smart card or personal </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>organizer.&nbsp; Provided with this model, automated manufacturing </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>equipment (often located in the store) can produce any requested </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>garment within a few hours--sometimes minutes--custom-fitted to the </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>shopper's measurements, and integrating the selected features.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>A single Smart Fabric can have a maximum number of optional </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>capabilities equal to its TL minus 8.&nbsp; Thus, TL9 Smart Fabric can </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>have only 1 capability, TL15 up to 7 capabilities.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>All costs, masses and stored volumes listed below are for a full suit </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>(for a typical human), or per 1m2 of Smart Fabric, and are *in </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>addition* to the cost, mass and volume of the Basic Fabric itself.. </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>For a jacket alone, halve the mass, volume and cost.&nbsp; Divide or </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>multiply cost as appropriate for gloves, footwear, headgear, </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>backpacks, tents, etc.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Except as noted, most options require tiny rechargeable batteries, </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>which are included in the price. Most clothing designs include </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>discrete pockets for batteries and various personal electronic items </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>such as Comms.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>All Smart Fabric features break down over time from wear and tear, </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>especially from cleaning. They eventually become inoperable, some </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>faster than others.&nbsp; Video Fabric-12 will become blurry and illegible </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>after perhaps only 30 days' use and cleaning, while Variable </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Colour-12 will last much longer.&nbsp; Higher TL materials are longer </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>lasting.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Smart Fabrics should be washed only by cleaning technologies of equal </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>or higher Tech Level; lower-tech methods will damage or destroy them.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>These materials cannot be properly tailored at home by the consumer </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>without a special skill and expensive computer-driven equipment.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Some options cannot be combined in the same fabric, such as </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Electro-Adhesive and Touch-Sensitive (because the adhesive area </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>cannot also be touch-sensitive).</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Some combinations of options are redundant, e.g. Video Display </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>includes Electroluminescent, while Optical Chameleon includes both </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Variable Color and Variable Shade.</FONT>
</P>

<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=2>Mass&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Cost&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Stored Vol.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Basic Fabric-9&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1kg&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 10Cr&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1 liter</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=2>Full suit or 1m2 of fabric.&nbsp; Optional capabilities are </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>detailed below.  Computer circuitry is integrated into the weave of </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>all Smart Fabrics, giving them a specialized computational Rating of </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>1; i.e., Video Display fabric is R1 for video display tasks, R0 for </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>all others.&nbsp; (For higher ratings, see &quot;Computational Array-13-15&quot;, </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>below.)</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Smart Fabric Options, by Tech Level:</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Motion Capture-9&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; --&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 100Cr&nbsp;&nbsp; --</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=2>Captures body-motion data to any computer, for VR and </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>tele-operation applications. Does not provide tactile or force </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>feedback.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Phosphorescent-9&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; --&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 50Cr&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; --</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=2>Absorbs sunlight and glows for several hours.&nbsp; Once charged, </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>the fabric's phosphors cannot be &quot;turned off&quot;, and will continue to </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>glow until their energy is dissipated.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Thermo-Electric-9&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 0.25kg&nbsp; 300Cr&nbsp;&nbsp; 0.25 liter</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=2>Self-heating and -cooling.&nbsp; Uses between 100 and 1000w, </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>depending on conditions, and requires a power source. </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>('Photoelectric' option is usually sufficient to power only the </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>lowest settings.)</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Electro-Adhesive-10&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 0.3kg&nbsp;&nbsp; 1000Cr&nbsp; 0.3 liter</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=2>Becomes extremely sticky under a small current; otherwise </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>non-sticky. Usually applied only to the soles of footwear for use in </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>microgravity (see 'Stickyfeet', CSC pg 15), or to the palms and </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>fingers of gloves, providing added traction in climbing, for example. </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>A bolt of Electro-Adhesive material, fixed to the ground and fitted </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>with a motion-detector, could be used as a humane trap for small </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>animals. Designed into carpet, it will seriously hinder intruders, </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>but not authorized personnel.&nbsp; Mass and price shown are for a full </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>suit, or 1m2; use 5-10% for Sticky-feet/gloves. Sticky-patches must </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>be replaced regularly at 500Cr per suit (or per m2).</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Variable Color-10,12&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; --&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 25Cr&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; --</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=2>Varies within a spectrum between any two primary colors, at a </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>set tonal value (i.e. light, medium, or dark), unless combined with </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Variable Shade option. At TL12, varies across nearly the full colour </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>spectrum, at a set tonal value.&nbsp; Able to display various patterns </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>(pinstripes, checkers, dots) and large-size text, but refreshes </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>slowly (about once per second).&nbsp; Not a useful video or computer </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>display.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Variable Shade-10&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; --&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 25Cr&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; --</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=2>Varies within a spectrum of tonal values from dark to light, </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>within a single color (unless combined with Variable Color option). </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>See previous.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Water Shedding-10&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; --&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 50Cr&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; --</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=2>Breaths easily, but waterproof under most wet-weather </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>conditions.&nbsp; Actively channels water from the interior to the </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>exterior surface.&nbsp; Water-shedding fabric is not waterproof when fully </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>immersed, but will dry itself rapidly even after being soaked through.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Biomonitors-11&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 0.3kg&nbsp;&nbsp; 400Cr&nbsp;&nbsp; 0.3 litres</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=2>Captures the wearer's body temperature, blood pressure, pulse </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>rate, and respiration rate.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Electroluminescent-11&nbsp;&nbsp; --&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 70Cr&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; --</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=2>Produces light in a fixed color of variable intensity. </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Variable colors at TL12+.&nbsp; At maximum intensity, illuminates up to </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>10m radius for about 1 hour on a small battery.&nbsp; Will glow at lower </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>intensity for several days, or can be connected to a continuous power </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>source.&nbsp; Can flash to attract attention, and display various patterns </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>or simple static messages in large text, but is not a useful video </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>display.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Sound Emitting/Capturing-11&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; --&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 200Cr&nbsp;&nbsp; --</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=2>Can rigidify circular panels which vibrate to produce sound. </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Also receives sound through smaller panels that act as microphones. </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Quality of sound output and reception tends to vary with the size of </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>panel, and how firmly anchored it is--i.e. a &quot;Sound-Shirt&quot; can </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>reproduce human speech recognizably with some distortion, while a </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&quot;Boom-Bedsheet&quot; stapled to a wall will cleanly reproduce music with </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>heavy bass and clean high frequencies.&nbsp; Requires 5w to 200w power, </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>depending on volume and size.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Variable Opacity-11&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; --&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 100Cr&nbsp;&nbsp; --</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=2>Varies from opaque to nearly-transparent.&nbsp; Tends to be more </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>popular with the fashion industry than with the general public.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Video Display-11&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; --&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 100Cr&nbsp;&nbsp; --</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=2>Low-resolution RGB fibre-optic weave. Requires video input </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>from camera, Comm, or recording (not included). Otherwise same </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>capabilities as Electroluminescent.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Force Feedback-12&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 0.5kg&nbsp;&nbsp; 1000Cr&nbsp; 0.5 liter</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=2>Flexes to provide limited tactile/force feedback for </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>tele-operation or VR.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Optical Chameleon-12&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 0.25kg&nbsp; 500Cr&nbsp;&nbsp; 0.25 liter</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=2>Medium-resolution variable-color display material. </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Short-range moving images collected by sensors on one side of garment </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>are displayed on the opposite side, to camoflage the wearer.&nbsp; Confers </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>+2 DM to surprise rolls when stationary, +1 when moving (+3,+2 in </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>darkness), and DM-1 to spot with optical sensors.&nbsp; Can also be used </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>as medium-resolution Video Display.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Photoelectric-12&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 0.25kg&nbsp; 20Cr&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 0.25 liter</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=2>Generates power when exposed to sunlight. Output varies with </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>conditions, but assuming an Atmos 6 world, 1AU from a G0v sun: a full </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>suit will generate about 100w (250w at TL14).&nbsp; A 1m2 area entirely </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>exposed to the same light will generate about 300w (650w at TL14). </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Even the slightest cloud cover drastically cuts the output. In </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>vacuum, will generate at least three times as many watts.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Computational Array-13-15&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1kg&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 700Cr&nbsp;&nbsp; 1 liter</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=2>Provides a higher computation rating than Basic Fabric by </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>increasing the density of circuitry and connecting regions of the </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>fabric into an array.&nbsp; Specialized Rating R2 at TL13, R3 at TL15.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Self-Repairing-12&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; --&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 300Cr&nbsp;&nbsp; --</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=2>Self-repairs minor splits, tears, abrasions, etc.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Touch Sensitive-12&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; --&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 100Cr&nbsp;&nbsp; --</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=2>Haptic transducers in the fabric partially extend the </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>wearer's sense of touch to the exterior of their clothes.&nbsp; Senses </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>heat, cold, moisture, impacts, and texture, though much less acutely </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>than human skin. Requires sensory jack implant (not included). Touch </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Fabric has the strange effect of making one's clothes feel as if they </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>were literally part of one's body, thus providing a heightened </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>awareness of one's surroundings. Applied to bulky armor, reduces DEX </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>penalty by 1, with practice.&nbsp; Extremely useful when applied to the </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>exterior of vac suits or other bulky hazardous-environment gear.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Toxin Filtering-12&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; --&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 500Cr&nbsp;&nbsp; --</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=2>Filters a range of known toxins from atmosphere.&nbsp; Commonly </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>found in filter suits (CSC pg 12).</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Variable Rigidity-12&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1kg&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1000Cr&nbsp; 1 liter</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=2>Can instantly rigidify when impact sensors are triggered, </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>conferring an armor rating of r1 versus subsequent impacts (DM of -1 </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>to DEX tasks when rigid).&nbsp; Can save the wearer's life in a fall. </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>TL14+ versions include proximity sensors that can predict some </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>impending impacts before they occur (on a roll of TL or less on 3D).</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Variable Shape-12&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 0.5kg&nbsp;&nbsp; 100Cr&nbsp;&nbsp; 0.5 liter</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=2>Varies cut, fit, and style of garment within a limited range. </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>With this feature, loose garments can become snug and skintight, </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>hemlines can shorten or lengthen by a few centimeters, lapels can </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>widen or disappear, etc.&nbsp; But a dress cannot transmogrify into pants </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>or a shirt.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Variable Reflectivity-13&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; --&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 300Cr&nbsp;&nbsp; --</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=2>Varies from matte to mirror-like. Mirror mode provides armor </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>rating f1 against laser weapons, but is very easy to spot with </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>optical sensing, even at night.&nbsp; This feature is commonly used in </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>environments with extreme temperature ranges.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Thermal Chameleon-13&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 0.25kg&nbsp; 500Cr&nbsp;&nbsp; 0.25 liter</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=2>Similar to Optical Chameleon, but operates in the IR spectrum </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>to break up the wearer's heat signature and imitate surrounding </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>heat-imagery (-2 to spot with thermal sensors).</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Self-Cleaning-15&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; --&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1000Cr&nbsp; --</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=2>Actively breaks down and sheds virtually all foreign material </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>trapped in or on the fabric, especially organic matter.&nbsp; Though not </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>completely impervious to grime, it can be worn continuously for up to </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>five days without acquiring a noticeable odor.&nbsp; However, under-layers </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>of synthetics must be worn, because Self-Cleaning Fabric will likely </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>identify hair as dead organic material, leaving the wearer's body </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>virtually hairless!&nbsp; It will also degrade organic cloth in close </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>contact with it.</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Typical Smart-Fabric Suits</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>--------------------------</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Work/Leisure Outfit-11  1kg&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 110Cr&nbsp;&nbsp; 1 liter</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=2>Variable color, variable shade, water shedding.&nbsp; A dark, </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>conservative suit at the office, transforms into colorful casual-wear </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>for dinner, loose or skintight as desired.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Dance Club Gear-12 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1.5kg&nbsp;&nbsp; 410Cr&nbsp;&nbsp; 2 liters</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=2>Video display, sound, biomonitors , variable opacity.&nbsp; Sound </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>panels tie into the club's sound system, putting you literally inside </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>the music.&nbsp; Video display reacts to biomonitor data with flashes of </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>color and light in sync with your body's rhythms.&nbsp; Opaque or </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>translucent, depending on your mood, inhibitions, and respect for </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>local custom.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Immersive Media-Suit-12 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1.5kg&nbsp;&nbsp; 1410Cr&nbsp; 1.5 liters</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=2>Motion-capture, force feedback, sound, touch sensitive.&nbsp; For </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>VR or tele-operation use.&nbsp; Touch Fabric provides the illusion that </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>the suit isn't even there.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Covert Ops Bodysuit-13&nbsp; 1.5kg&nbsp;&nbsp; 1160Cr&nbsp; 1 liter</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=2>Water shedding, opto/thermal chameleon, variable shape. Crawl </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>through the swamp, avoid the sentry-bots, set the charges, and slip </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>back to the black-tie reception without even stopping to change </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>clothes.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Adventure Climber-14&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2kg&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2000Cr&nbsp; 3 liters</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=2>Thermo-electric, water shedding, electroluminescent, </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>self-repair, photoelectric (generates about 250w); sticky-shoes &amp; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>-gloves.&nbsp; The glow of your climbing suit will help the rescue teams </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>find you when you get stuck half-way up the crater wall.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Exploration Suit-15&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2.5kg&nbsp;&nbsp; 2860Cr&nbsp; 3 liters</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=2>Thermo-electric, water shedding, biomonitors, self-repair, </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>optical chameleon, variable rigidity, variable reflectivity.&nbsp; What </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>the obsessively well-outfitted Scout is wearing this season.</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Typical Smart-Fabric Gear</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>--------------------------</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Backpack-12&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1kg&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 200Cr&nbsp;&nbsp; 2 liters, empty</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=2>Water shedding, variable opacity, self-repairing. De-opaque </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>your pack and find out at a glance where you stowed your </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>socks--without having to unpack everything else.&nbsp; Increases </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Encumbrance limit by 20%. Capacity: 30 litres, 80kg.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Utility Vest-14 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3kg&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1500Cr&nbsp; 3 liters, empty</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=2>Water shedding, optical chameleon, photoelectric, </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>self-repair, touch sensitive, variable rigidity, variable shape. </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Pocket capacity: 12 liters.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Ultra Tarpaulin-12&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 4kg&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 32KCr&nbsp;&nbsp; 4 liters</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=2>5 x 10m; electroluminescent, variable opacity, optical </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>chameleon, photoelectric (generates about 650w per m2 exposed to </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>sunlight).&nbsp; Perhaps the most expensive way to cover a campsite ever </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>invented!</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>The Traveller Mailing List.</FONT>
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 10:38:02 2001
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From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 13:37:40 -0400
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Re: Law Levels
Message-ID: <Springmail.105.987097060.0.81361500@www.springmail.com>
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I wrote:
>Inexplicably, no one has yet mentioned the table in the 
>MegaTraveller Ref Manual defining law levels all the way up to K or 
>L or some other ridiculously high value.  Is this table considered 
>off-limits because of the 'CT' in the original subject-line or has 
>everyone just forgotten about it?

Here's the list I mentioned above.  It may not be strictly CT, and people may not agree with some or all of it, but it is (dare I say it) Canon:

A Extreme Law (weapon possession prohibited)
B Extreme Law (rigid control of civilian movement)
C Extreme Law (unrestricted invasion of privacy)
D Extreme Law (paramilitary law enforcement)
E Extreme Law (full-fledged police state)
F Extreme Law (all facets of daily life rigidly controled)
G Extreme Law (severe punishment for petty infractions)
H Extreme Law (legalized oppressive practices)
J Extreme Law (routinely oppressive and restrictive)
K Extreme Law (excessively oppressive and restrictive)
L Extreme Law (totally oppressive and restrictive)

Note that per Traveller world creation L/20 is the highest possible non-fiat Law Level (requiring Pop A, Govt F, and a roll of 12 on 2D)

Trent

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 10:38:45 2001
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Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 13:38:38 -0400
To: tml@travellercentral.com
From: Pat Berry <pberry@nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] OT : Icosahedriphobia [LONG]
In-Reply-To: <3ad693ff.3433256@post.demon.co.uk>
References: <10411.232709.7a7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <10411.232709.7a7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
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At 11:48 AM 4/12/01 +0000, Stephen Tempest wrote:

>I can remember an article in White Dwarf where someone argued "Isn't
>it ridiculous that a high-level and a low-level character, chained
>side by side to a rock, can be toasted by a red dragon and one of them
>will survive? Has finding x thousand gold pieces turned his skin to
>asbestos?"

Yes!  That was "How to Lose Hit Points and Survive" by Roger Musson.  The 
absolute best analysis of hit points I've ever seen.  Musson's alternate 
system for handling damage is my personal favorite, and the one I intend to 
use in my next D&D campaign.

>  ...and Gary Gygax in person wrote in to say that yes,
>those are the rules, that's the way the game is designed to be played.
>"It's heroic fantasy, not realism"...

Well, that's pretty much what I've been saying -- but it *is* possible to 
strike a balance between realism and playability.

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 10:41:47 2001
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From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
References: <a05010400b6f920878d7a@[154.5.39.27]>
Subject: Re: [TML] Smart Fabrics
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 10:40:56 -0700
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I hope this is posted on the web somewhere

Tod
[snip]

> --------------------
> 
> Smart Fabrics
> -------------
> 
> Consumers in high-tech societies may select from a bewildering 


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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 10:45:50 2001
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From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
To: "TML" <tml@travellercentral.com>
Subject: [TML] Quick TL question
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 10:45:12 -0700
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Greetings all.

I'm at work and don't have my references.  At what TL does the shotgun
appear?  I'm working on an article about the shotgun in Traveller.

Tod
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 10:55:19 2001
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Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 12:54:18 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] First Blood in Classic Traveller
To: tml@travellercentral.com
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Douglas Berry wrote:

> >The "First Blood" rule is unclear to me, in retrospect. Since
> >characteristics cannot be negative, the 7 points over must surely be applied
> >to another characteristic, right ? If so, then he's down and out for the
> >count on an average roll.
 
> The rule in Book 1 is poorly written.  It states that the first wound is
> applied to a single characteristic, and then mentions that wounds that take
> a char. below zero are applied to different attributes.

But he *is* correct. If the Single Characteristic is reduced to 0 and
there are still points to apply they are applied to a second
Characteristic, and if that one is reduced to 0 and there are still
points to apply the remainder are applied to the third Characteristic.
 
<snip>

> Yes, with a high explosive round.  Using a 7.62mm rifle firing ball ammo,
> you have a 16% chance of doing this, and no chance of an outright kill.  I
> used a 7.62mm in the service, and this is *very* wrong.

I agree! I don't fault the wounding system, though, I fault the damage
level of the weapons.  IMO, the firearms in CT are underpowered. I'd go
with something like...
 
 Light pistols 		2d
 Laser pistol (no pack) 2d
 Medium pistols		3d
 Laser pistol (ppack)   3d
 Heavy pistols/carbines 4d
 Laser carbine (no pack)5d
 Rifles/shotguns	6d
 Laser carbine (ppack)  6d
 Heavy Rifles		7d
 Laser Rifle (no pack)  7d
 Laser Rifle (ppack)    8d
 PGMP-12		10d

...making combat even more deadly. You will probably survive a hit from
a light pistol, but it stands a good chance of stunning you (knock down)
and *could* give you a serious wound.  Surviving a rifle shot is
possible, but shrugging it off like nothing happened is going to be
exceedingly rare, and one shot kills are possible, even likely. 
Armor...don't leave home without it! <g>

> >Of course, you might be lucky without First Blood - each of the 4D is
> >treated as an individual cluster of hits, so you might be able to stay at 1+
> >in each of Str, Dex and End.
 
> Or, you might roll 6 or less on the first hit.  Weirder things have happened.

And that's a feature of the CT system. <g> We've all heard the stories
about the guy that is shot point-blank to the head with a 9mm and walks
away, as well as the ones where the guy takes a shotgun pellet to the
toe and dies.  

My father shot himself in the foot while out hunting. He was resting the
shotgun's barrel on the toe of his boot and it went off. The pellets
went between his big toe and his next toe. He almost bled out before we
could get him to the hospital (30 miles and almost an hour away by the
time we got him out of the woods, into the car and drove like maniacs to
the hospital)..just from a shot between his toes. Getting attention to a
wound fast is *very* important.

Eris
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 10:59:31 2001
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To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Quick TL question
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:59:16 -0000
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>Greetings all.
>
>I'm at work and don't have my references.  At what TL does the shotgun
>appear?  I'm working on an article about the shotgun in Traveller.
>
>Tod

Per the chart in LBB 3, TL4

Greg
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 11:26:54 2001
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Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 14:15:37 -0400
From: "Eric A. Rhude" <ateno@panix.com>
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Smart Fabrics
Message-ID: <20010412141536.A26141@panix.com>
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I saved it as text if you want it.

Eric

Tod Glenn wrote:
> I hope this is posted on the web somewhere
> 
> Tod
> [snip]
> 
> > --------------------
> > 
> > Smart Fabrics
> > -------------
> > 
> > Consumers in high-tech societies may select from a bewildering 
> 
> 
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 11:32:06 2001
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Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 11:31:57 -0700
Subject: Re: [TML] Quick TL question
From: Bill <beast@pacifier.com>
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According to Book 1 of the LBB reprint it's a RL 5 weapon

Bill

> Greetings all.
> 
> I'm at work and don't have my references.  At what TL does the shotgun
> appear?  I'm working on an article about the shotgun in Traveller.
> 
> Tod
> ----
> When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
> ----
> Tod Glenn
> webmaster@travellercentral.com
> http://www.travellercentral.com
> http://www.travellerguns.com
> http://www.spinwardmarches.com
> http://www.solsec.org
> 
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 11:42:52 2001
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From: WLane@syncata.com
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Subject: RE: [TML] First Blood in Classic Traveller
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Hi, 


<snip>

 
> Laser pistol (no pack) 2d
> 
> Laser carbine (no pack)5d
> 
> Laser Rifle (no pack)  7d
 

<snip>

Is this damage for clubbing someone over the head with these weapons? with
out a power pack i assumed these weapons were useless. or is there something
going on with them i need to know about. Thanks 8)

Bill

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<TITLE>RE: [TML] First Blood in Classic Traveller</TITLE>
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<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hi, </FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&lt;snip&gt;</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Laser pistol (no pack) 2d</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Laser carbine (no pack)5d</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Laser Rifle (no pack)&nbsp; 7d</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&lt;snip&gt;</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Is this damage for clubbing someone over the head =
with these weapons? with out a power pack i assumed these weapons were =
useless. or is there something going on with them i need to know about. =
Thanks 8)</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Bill</FONT>
</P>

</BODY>
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From: AuricTech Shipyards <aurictech@esweeet.com>
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Subject: RE: [TML] First Blood in Classic Traveller
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--- WLane@syncata.com wrote:

**begin quote**

> Laser pistol (no pack) 2d 
> 
> Laser carbine (no pack)5d 
> 
> Laser Rifle (no pack)  7d 
  

<snip> 

Is this damage for clubbing someone over the head with these weapons? with out a power pack i assumed these weapons were useless. or is there something going on with them i need to know about. Thanks 8)

**end quote**

I took that to mean that these weapons could be employed either with internal power supplies of some sort (the "no pack" damage rating), but that they could deliver more energy (thus causing more damage) if connected to a backpack-mounted power pack.



==
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
TML Great Middle-Aged One
Once and Future Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List

http://www.geocities.com/colverber/travler.html

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 12:06:09 2001
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Glenn Grant wrote:

> Something I wrote up recently for my campaign...
> -- Some of this information is based on Greg Porter's _Central Supply 
> Catalogue_.
> -- This uses Trav Tech Levels, not GURPS.
>

Cool! Love it! Yanked right into the bulging TML directory of my hard drive.

Though it does bring to mind the old SmoBros joke about poor people wearing less clothing, and being called the 'less-ons';-)

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 12:16:30 2001
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Subject: RE: [TML] OT : Icosahedriphobia [LONG]
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Hi,

Pat Berry wrote:-):-

> But they don't.  Hit points (after the first hit die or two) represent his
> generalized skill at avoiding damage.  They aren't tied to any specific
weapon.

Well, then, that's even worse. Here we have an abstract, untrainable
statistic, improved solely by experience even in non-combat orientated
classes. You may as well compare it then with Warhammer Fate Points in a
way - just because you're a hero, you have a better chance of surviving.

I should point out a very important issue here. "Heroes" in the "heroic
roleplaying" sense are a Hollywood style contrivance. Real life heroes are
no more than mortal men and women who have courage. Cut them, they still
bleed. "Heroes" in my games are more like the latter than the former ...
there's more sense of achievement playing someone who doesn't stand out from
the crowd, has their failings, but who makes a _difference_ than Captain Zap
Hazard, the space pirate who *never* misses with his trusty blaster and
*always* gets the girl or whatever (and yes, one of my players really did
choose that name :-) ).

> If MegaTraveller, The New Era,
> Traveller 4, and GURPS Traveller didn't alter them, how could the
> publication of a D20 version do so?

Check again - TNE and GURPS most certainly did alter the d6 mechanics, in
fact to a lesser extent so did MegaTraveller (tasks) and T4 (different task
system).

> The non-physical
> value of the hit points is not, as you say, forgotten; it is explicitly
> pointed out.

But it *is* forgotten in practice. The DMG may well say everything you
quoted, I can't verify it because my 1st Ed. is in the loft under piles of
old gaming stuff ... but no one I know has ever DM'd a game and said "you
missed your saving throw, you got hit by the rock, let's cut to the chase,
you're dead.". Instead they've just used the more well-known mechanism -
"you missed your saving throw, so you take 48 hit points, that takes you
down to 1, you're barely alive". Why ? Because to kill players in the former
manner will alienate them, that's why. "Hey, I still have all of my hit
points ! Surely 67hp counts for something ? I can't be dead !". Rightly or
wrongly, DMs will give extra chances to players just to avoid this sort of
argument. I've seen it happen many, many times. Personally, I'd go with the
former one though - my group has a long list of casualties, but then they
accept that characters can and do die in my games.

> What would be the difference, other than calling the die roll by a
> different name?

The difference is that if I have a dex score, it tells me how dextrous I am,
right ? Then I'd expect my dodge roll to reflect that I am either very
dextrous or not dextrous at all ... this is a principle of good game design,
in fact just plain good design - start with one foundation and build up. If
however I have an arbitrary number which is unaffected by dexterity, why
have dexterity ? It's orphaned, a cul-de-sac characteristic.

> Aren't you the guy who, a couple of paragraphs ago, was condemning D&D for
> taking an all-or-nothing, you-either-do-or-you-don't approach to
> armor?  Why does this suddenly become a virtue when applied to wounding
and
> death?

Hey !

What I said was that armour's function is to protect, and that it should not
always be a black and white "it protects or it doesn't" style situation.
That makes it more realistic.

What I also said was I liked realistic combat. Well, realistic firearms are
lethal unless you have body armour, and even then can still cause
casualties.

I was not arguing against myself, just sticking to my principle that if you
are going to simulate something, then simulate it - don't fudge it and make
it inconsistent, however abstract the simulation may well be. A bullet is
still a bullet and can kill. Period.

For a better example of the above, consider kevlar vests - they may stop a
bullet (no physical penetration) but they don't stop the kinetic energy and
you can still be blown off your feet, have a cracked rib, and suffer blunt
trauma damage. Here the armour absorbs some of the impact but not all, and
here the bullet would have been definitely lethal *without* the armour.
That's basic physics, proving realism needn't be complex, just consistent.

> I'm sorry to hear that.  I don't know what else there is to say.

Well, frankly nothing. I have used the TML to voice my opinion that the d20
system is not something I want to see coming Traveller's way. You have
voiced your opinion that you don't agree. It would be pointless to go any
further really.

Let's just leave it at that.

Andy

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 12:36:30 2001
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Glenn Grant [mailto:neo@total.net] wrote:

> Something I wrote up recently for my campaign...

Way, cool, thanks.  As with your other similar posts, you are very 
good at making the future *feel* like the future.

Thanks-

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 12:37:28 2001
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From: Sinbad Sam <sinbad@hex.net>
Subject: [TML] Criminal Organizations In The Traveler Universe
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I would like to start/restart the discussion on the viability of criminal 
organizations in the Traveller Universe.

Things like degree of organization and size of area of controls.

I really liked the way the Thieves Guild was presented in "Crusade", a very 
decentralized organization with very local control. But with methods of ID 
authentication that are not reliant upon computer technology.

Sinbad Sam

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 12:48:35 2001
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Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 12:48:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] Criminal Organizations In The Traveler Universe
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Sinbad Sam writes:
> I would like to start/restart the discussion on the viability of criminal 
> organizations in the Traveller Universe.

Well, it's a bit hard to have an interstellar criminal organization due to 
the rather limited imperial laws and the variation in local laws; a single
corporation might be perfectly legitimate in one world and criminal in another,
and be behaving the same way on both worlds.  Is that an interstellar criminal
organization?
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 13:13:17 2001
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Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 13:12:24 -0700
Subject: Re: [TML] Quick TL question
From: Bill <beast@pacifier.com>
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Hey that is correct too.
I was referring to the description of a shotgun in book one. It lists it as
a TL 5 weapon, so go figure.

>> Greetings all.
>> 
>> I'm at work and don't have my references.  At what TL does the shotgun
>> appear?  I'm working on an article about the shotgun in Traveller.
>> 
>> Tod
> 
> Per the chart in LBB 3, TL4
> 
> Greg
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 13:22:19 2001
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From: Pat Berry <pberry@nc.rr.com>
Subject: RE: [TML] OT : Icosahedriphobia [LONG]
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At 08:15 PM 4/12/01 +0100, Andy Brick wrote:

>Pat Berry wrote:-):-
>
> > Hit points (after the first hit die or two) represent his
> > generalized skill at avoiding damage.  They aren't tied to any specific
>weapon.
>
>Well, then, that's even worse. Here we have an abstract, untrainable
>statistic, improved solely by experience even in non-combat orientated
>classes. You may as well compare it then with Warhammer Fate Points in a
>way - just because you're a hero, you have a better chance of surviving.

Yup.  That's exactly it.  D&D is very much a cinematic, swashbuckling sort 
of adventure game, with larger-than-life heroes who laugh at danger and 
carry out daring feats that would get ordinary folks like you and me killed 
in a New York minute.

That's just a part of the game's fundamental essence, and it's certainly 
something that some gamers like and others dislike.  It's not better or 
worse that other styles of gaming, in my view; it's just one of many 
possible choices.

>I should point out a very important issue here. "Heroes" in the "heroic
>roleplaying" sense are a Hollywood style contrivance. Real life heroes are
>no more than mortal men and women who have courage. Cut them, they still
>bleed. "Heroes" in my games are more like the latter than the former ...
>there's more sense of achievement playing someone who doesn't stand out from
>the crowd, has their failings, but who makes a _difference_ than Captain Zap
>Hazard, the space pirate who *never* misses with his trusty blaster and
>*always* gets the girl or whatever (and yes, one of my players really did
>choose that name :-) ).

That, too, is a valid approach to gaming, and perhaps better for some 
genres.  I tend to like my science fiction more realistic than my fantasy, 
but that's just a personal preference.

Whether d20 requires this sort of cinematic approach when applied to 
non-fantasy genres is not something that I'm knowledgeable enough to 
judge.  It may be that it's something you can adjust for each individual 
campaign, as you can do in GURPS.  I really don't know.

> > If MegaTraveller, The New Era,
> > Traveller 4, and GURPS Traveller didn't alter them, how could the
> > publication of a D20 version do so?
>
>Check again - TNE and GURPS most certainly did alter the d6 mechanics, in
>fact to a lesser extent so did MegaTraveller (tasks) and T4 (different task
>system).

You misunderstand me.  TNE and GURPS introduced their *own* 
mechanics.  They did not retroactively alter the d6 mechanic in CT.  It 
remains unchanged, and is still used by those who prefer to play under the 
CT rules.

That's my point.  A new version of Traveller cannot do away with the 
preexisting mechanics.  It can only provide an alternative to it.  CT, as a 
game in its own right, is immune to change.

> > The non-physical
> > value of the hit points is not, as you say, forgotten; it is explicitly
> > pointed out.
>
>But it *is* forgotten in practice. The DMG may well say everything you
>quoted, I can't verify it because my 1st Ed. is in the loft under piles of
>old gaming stuff ... but no one I know has ever DM'd a game and said "you
>missed your saving throw, you got hit by the rock, let's cut to the chase,
>you're dead.".

That's your experience.  Mine is different.  I have seen characters killed 
instantly when then did especially foolish things.  If their players 
thought the DM would not let them die, they were mistaken.

>Rightly or
>wrongly, DMs will give extra chances to players just to avoid this sort of
>argument. I've seen it happen many, many times.

Some DMs will do this; others won't.  This is a function of DMing style, 
and has little to do with the game rules.

> > What would be the difference, other than calling the die roll by a
> > different name?
>
>The difference is that if I have a dex score, it tells me how dextrous I am,
>right ? Then I'd expect my dodge roll to reflect that I am either very
>dextrous or not dextrous at all ... this is a principle of good game design,
>in fact just plain good design - start with one foundation and build up. If
>however I have an arbitrary number which is unaffected by dexterity, why
>have dexterity ? It's orphaned, a cul-de-sac characteristic.

We were discussing saving throws, and specifically saving throws in 3rd 
Edition D&D.  Those are directly determined by ability 
scores.  Specifically, your dexterity determines your Reflex saving throw.

Your complaint is valid for earlier versions of D&D, but not for 3rd 
Edition.  Since the d20 engine is based on 3rd Edition, that means that 
this particular complaint cannot be used as an argument against d20.

>I have used the TML to voice my opinion that the d20
>system is not something I want to see coming Traveller's way. You have
>voiced your opinion that you don't agree.

Not really.  Believe it or not, I mostly agree with you.  While I'm not 
averse to d20 as such, I don't see any need for a d20 version of Traveller, 
and I would prefer not to see one unless it's the only hope for keeping the 
game alive.

The only reason I've disputed some of your statements is that I think d20 
should be judged on its own merits, and not on the flaws of earlier 
versions of D&D that actually have nothing to do with d20.  Consequently, 
I've tried to correct some misconceptions you harbor about d20.  But some 
of your criticisms of it are valid, and I agree with them.  For example, 
although D&D hit points don't work quite the way you have described, I find 
them as unsatisfactory as you do.

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 13:25:40 2001
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From: WLane@syncata.com
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Smart Fabrics
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 13:24:02 -0700
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<snip>
>Something I wrote up recently for my campaign...
>-- Some of this information is based on Greg Porter's _Central Supply 
>Catalogue_.
>-- This uses Trav Tech Levels, not GURPS.

<snip>

Greg Porter's Central Supply?

is this a website? or a book? and does it have additional gear and such?
where can i find it?

any info would be much much appreciated.

Bill

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<P><FONT SIZE=2>&lt;snip&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt;Something I wrote up recently for my campaign...</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt;-- Some of this information is based on Greg Porter's _Central Supply </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt;Catalogue_.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt;-- This uses Trav Tech Levels, not GURPS.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>&lt;snip&gt;</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Greg Porter's Central Supply?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>is this a website? or a book? and does it have additional gear and such? where can i find it?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>any info would be much much appreciated.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Bill</FONT>
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 14:23:07 2001
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WLane@syncata.com wrote:

> <snip>
>  >Something I wrote up recently for my campaign...
>  >-- Some of this information is based on Greg Porter's _Central Supply
>  >Catalogue_.
>  >-- This uses Trav Tech Levels, not GURPS.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> Greg Porter's Central Supply?
> 
> is this a website? or a book? and does it have additional gear and such? 
> where can i find it?

Central Supply Catalog was a supplement for T4 listing tons of various items, and was designed to go with Emperor's Arsenal, another very worthwhile T4 supplement. You can probably find one in used racks at your FLGS or mail order sources.

While CSC is a really cool supplement, and spawned my absolute favorite piece of Traveller software of all time, Infini-V, it introduced Yet Another Design System.

This system was a simplified version of Greg Porter's VDS system, which is, in itself a worthwhile puchase.

 
-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 14:38:04 2001
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From: Sinbad Sam <sinbad@hex.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Criminal Organizations In The Traveler Universe
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At 12:48 PM 4/12/2001 -0700, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>Sinbad Sam writes:
> > I would like to start/restart the discussion on the viability of criminal
> > organizations in the Traveller Universe.
>
>Well, it's a bit hard to have an interstellar criminal organization due to
>the rather limited imperial laws and the variation in local laws; a single
>corporation might be perfectly legitimate in one world and criminal in 
>another,
>and be behaving the same way on both worlds.  Is that an interstellar criminal
>organization?

Yes in your above example the interstellar corp could be classified as a 
interstellar criminal organization, in many persons views. But not in its 
founding purpose, kind a like various corps in todays world basically use 
child labor in third world countries to get bigger profit margin.

But could they be compared to the Mafias(Russian, Italian, European, 
American), Triads, Tongs, grifters, drug lords no, so those corps would not 
be classified as a organized criminal organizations. The corps could be 
classified being "Competitive" rather than criminal.<G>

What I was thinking of was organized smuggling of anything that a profit 
can be made from, dustspice to Imperial Weapons of War.

Computer crime on organized scale, ie hacking, industrial espionage, data 
theft, copy right violations.

Fencing of stolen items on an organized scale, and movement of same.

Extortion, kidnapping, drug manufacture/smuggling, tech running, organ 
legging, slavery, identity theft, counterfeiting of imperial/non imperial 
currency(yes it can be done), organized scam/confidence games, theft 
burglary rings, loan sharking, illegal gambling.....

In a limited Imperial laws such criminal organizations would thrive at 
least on local levels, once it becomes profitable beyond a certain point a 
larger organization will take over. Those larger organizations would/will 
cover many planets, and eventually subsector wide going on to sector wide.

Sinbad Sam

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 14:39:24 2001
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Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:38:49 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] First Blood in Classic Traveller
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AuricTech Shipyards wrote:
 
> > --- WLane@syncata.com wrote:
> > 
> > **begin quote**
> > 
> > > Laser pistol (no pack) 2d
> > >
> > > Laser carbine (no pack)5d
> > >
> > > Laser Rifle (no pack)  7d
> > 
> > 
> > <snip>
> > 
> > Is this damage for clubbing someone over the head 
> > with these weapons? with out a power pack i assumed 
> > these weapons were useless. or is there something 
> > going on with them i need to know about. Thanks 8)

> **end quote**
 
> I took that to mean that these weapons could be employed
> either with internal power supplies of some sort (the "no 
> pack" damage rating), but that they could deliver more energy 
> (thus causing more damage) if connected to a backpack-mounted
> power pack.

That's precisely what I meant. IMTU, at higher TL's, laser weapons can
be built to use internal power supplies rather than depending upon the
large and bulky power packs. Generally, when fired without the power
packs they do less damage and fire fewer bolts between rechargings.

Eris
  the Heretic
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 14:42:22 2001
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Subject: RE: [TML] OT : Icosahedriphobia [LONG]
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Hi

> That, too, is a valid approach to gaming, and perhaps better for some
> genres.  I tend to like my science fiction more realistic than my fantasy,
> but that's just a personal preference.

I like realism across the board, to a reasonable extent. While I accept that
(for example) a RuneQuest game might feature sorcery, that to me does not
invalidate the fact that forceably shoving 1.2 metres of sharpened primitive
steel through someone's gut is still likely to be fatal. It just means that
one of his colleagues might be able to heal it instantaneously without TL7+
field medicine and nothing more than a wave of his hands and an incantation
in some obscure and forgotten language.

> You misunderstand me.  TNE and GURPS introduced their *own*
> mechanics.  They did not retroactively alter the d6 mechanic in CT.  It
> remains unchanged, and is still used by those who prefer to play under the
> CT rules.

Ah, I see.

No, true, they did not retroactively alter the d6 mechanic, but they did
obsolete it in that they were the current product line ... everything was
then published with the "new" rules system in mind. That's my point with
changing mechanics - you might still play Classic Traveller, but (at the
time) if only TNE stuff is in print, it's a tad annoying. Classic Traveller
evolution stopped when MegaTraveller came out. However, the Third Imperium
carried on with the new setting and background information.

That's why in some ways TNE was and GURPS is bad for Traveller - it splits
the support base into factions, each with their own way of doing things,
which harms otherwise potentially worthwhile group efforts and makes it
harder to move between referees and campaigns. While I am a great believer
in strength in diversity, I am also a great believer in compatibility at
some level - there comes a point when diversity is just completely
different, after all.

> Some DMs will do this; others won't.  This is a function of DMing style,
> and has little to do with the game rules.

True enough, but the game rules are there to make what is otherwise a
freeform situation consistent and fair, by encouraging similar situations to
generate repeatable outcomes. If the rules are too abstract, then they
cannot be used to arbitrate disputes, and unfair decisions crop up more
often. I'm not saying that you need to go to the other extreme and have a
rule for everything, just that the framework should make sense, be flexible,
and be extensible with the spirit of the original rules in mind.

> Your complaint is valid for earlier versions of D&D, but not for 3rd
> Edition.  Since the d20 engine is based on 3rd Edition, that means that
> this particular complaint cannot be used as an argument against d20.

Well, ok, maybe I'm wrong on Saving Throws in 3rd Ed. But I'm willing to bet
that I'm not wrong with the rest of the issues I raised with d20.

> Not really.  Believe it or not, I mostly agree with you.

I think I missed this somewhere - it seems to me (from memory) that you
haven't agreed with much I've had to say at all ! Maybe I should re-read
your postings.

> I don't see any need for a d20 version of Traveller,
> and I would prefer not to see one unless it's the only hope for keeping
the
> game alive.

There's an argument that goes along the lines of "do a d20 Traveller, get
the cash, then spend it on the development of 'normal' Traveller". This is
shameless commercialism in a way, but then if there are people who will pay
for d20 Traveller, then do we care ?

> The only reason I've disputed some of your statements is that I think d20
> should be judged on its own merits, and not on the flaws of earlier
> versions of D&D that actually have nothing to do with d20.

Minor point - d20 is firmly rooted in the evolution of D&D and therefore
earlier versions do have some bearing on its development.

> Consequently, I've tried to correct some misconceptions you harbor about
d20.

Well, I never said that I wasn't open to being put right when I'm wrong.
That's what intellectual debate such as this is all about.

>   But some
> of your criticisms of it are valid, and I agree with them.  For example,
> although D&D hit points don't work quite the way you have described, I
find
> them as unsatisfactory as you do.

Thanks.

Regards

Andy

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 14:48:27 2001
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Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:54:41 -0700
From: "Doug C." <dougcr@mb.sympatico.ca>
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Shotguns appears listed at different TLs in LBBs (TL5 as semi-auto,
TL4 on tech level chat), and in MT (TL4, w TL7 for autoshotgun...)

SO HERE'S WHAT I USE IMTU (Your milage may vary...)

TL3 Shotgun (c.1800);
- One step above the musket... flintlock or percusion-cap fired.
- Muzzel loading using paper cartriges, like the classic flintlock
muskets or rifles of the Old Terran Napoleonic Wars

TL-4 Shotgun (c.1900);
- Break-open single or double barreled type, manually cocked
external hammers.
- Typically center-fire using either full-brass or paper-sided
shells.

At TL 5 (c.1930)
- Pump-action, or lever-action shotguns (historically there were
several lever-action shotguns...) are the norm.
- Towards the top-end of TL5, semi-automatics will appear, but are
expensive and uncommon.   
- Sporting/Hunting shotguns are frequently break-open double-barrel
types, although pump-action and single shot are also used.

TL6  (c.1950)
- Semi-auto shotguns common for police and military use, but are
still expensive.
- Inexpensive pump-action still common, being used by police, for
hunting and home-defence.
- High-end sporting/hunting versions are usually still over/under,
break-open double-barrel types.  These high-end types are
long-barreled, and highly accurate, and frequently customized.

TL7+  (c.1970)
- Auto-shotguns, magazine fed, 3-rnd "burst" mode appear for
military use.
- The cheap pump-action is still common.  Used by police/security,
and for home-defence.
- Semi-auto is now the norm if used for hunting.
- High-end sporting/target versions are usually still over/under,
break-open types.

Hope this helps...

My .02cr worth

Doug


Bill wrote:
> 
> Hey that is correct too.
> I was referring to the description of a shotgun in book one. It lists it as
> a TL 5 weapon, so go figure.
> 
> >> Greetings all.
> >>
> >> I'm at work and don't have my references.  At what TL does the shotgun
> >> appear?  I'm working on an article about the shotgun in Traveller.
> >>
> >> Tod
> >
> > Per the chart in LBB 3, TL4
> >
> > Greg
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 14:49:43 2001
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Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:48:52 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] First Blood in Classic Traveller
To: tml@travellercentral.com
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> WLane@syncata.com wrote:

> > Laser Rifle (no pack)  7d

> <snip>
 
> Is this damage for clubbing someone over the head with these weapons?

LOL! I have to give you an honorary keyboard kill for this one. I was
just about to take a drink from my glass when I read it, so you missed a
reall kill by about 1 second. <g>

Now, about hand weapons....

I'd like to include the PC's Strength into the equation on them without
getting too complicated. Maybe STR/5 dice added to the hand weapon to
represent the additional damage a strong fighter would dish out?

Eris
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 15:19:31 2001
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From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] Criminal Organizations In The Traveler Universe
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 18:06:43 -0400
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Was written:

I would like to start/restart the discussion on the viability of criminal
>organizations in the Traveller Universe.
>
>Things like degree of organization and size of area of controls.


I would suggest that an analysis of what traditional criminal enterprises
would benifit from an interstellar connection would be appropriate.  It
would seem obvious to me that organized crime, to a greater or lesser degree
depending local factors, is a given on a planetary or even system level.
Using that as a base what would warrent a greater scope?  Taking cross
border/international crime as it currently exists as a model there are
several possiblities for actions potentially in contrivention of Imperial
Law regarding trade, traffic in illicit substances, person based crimes such
as kidnapping and slavery and information based crime.

Interstellar Commerce Violations

1.    Fencing     Operations whereby goods stolen in one system are sold in
another are good possiblities.  This could include steal to order rings
whereby high dollar luxury goods are stolen to order.  This occurs currently
in the trade in automobiles/trucks which are stolen in the US and fenced to
South and Central America and the Middle East.  Such theft in Western Europe
for sale in Eastern Europe is on the rise as well.  To give another example
luxury boats are stolen in South Florida for sale in South and Central
America and the Caribbean.  I can see a like trade in simular high tech
goods at an interstellar level.  A side swindle to this is "arranged" theft
where by the owner gets both a kickback and an insurance settlement.
Fencing would also include the moving of good obtained by piracy and/or
barratry.


2.    Piracy and or barratry  In addition to the traditional forms which
have been debated at length on the list there is also the deliberate
wrecking of space going vessels to obtain salvage.

3.    Swindles These could take many forms, in the financial arena this
could involve sequential pyramid schemes spanning multiple systems where by
operations in one system feeds the next and the hucksters move system to
system taking their gains with them and leaving collapsed cons behind them.

4.    Frauds  Regarding frauds this could involve selling bogus or
misrepresented real estate on an interstellar scale.  An add on swindle to
either of these cons is have a second later con going which promises for a
fee to "get all your money back".

5.    Extortion  This could take the form of "terrorist" attacks and the
threat of such attacks on system infrastructure and space going vessels and
the payment of "protection" money.  This could involve deliberate sabatoge
so that vessels are lost in jump and the threat of such sabatoge.

Traffic in Illict Goods

1.     This would involve traffic in Imperially forbidden drugs, ancient
artifacts, artifacts from red zone worlds, the performing of a limited
number of medical procedures that are likely to be Imperially forbidden, and
organlegging.

Person Based Crimes

1.    Slavery    Despite the fact that it is forbidden or perhaps because of
it slavery will prosper under certain cercumstances depending, at least in
part, on how slavery is defined.  This could involve the movement of persons
out of Imperial space to be enslaved elsewhere.

2.    Kidnapping    This would involve the kidnapping of persons for gain in
which those persons were transported interstellar distances or even within a
system.

3.     Assasination    For the Empire to be involved this would generally
have to involve, murders on starport property, the killing of  Imperial
officials and  nobility and/or colateral damage to Imperial property.

Information Based Crimes

This could include the supplying of information on ship movement and cargoes
for the purpose of piracy and wrecking.  This could also involve trading in
information regarding Imperial ship movements and could thus include
treason.

All of these are likely to be crimes in which the IMJ would take a dim view.
I see various elements of organized crime taking part in all of them with
some elements working at cross purpose to others.   One group of criminals
might pay protection to another or be at war with them.  Those fencing goods
might not trade in goods directly stolen from Imperially Bonded Wearhouses
and might be actively opposed to such operations on the grounds that they
are "bad for business."

Note that in my discussions above I leave out ideologically based criminal
enterprises. While there might be some connection with those organizations
in the purely "for profit" realm I do not necessarily see the two types of
organizations as being mutually compatable at an interstellar level.

Regarding the organization structure of purely "for profit" criminal
organizations I see an organization which mimics Imperial social
stratification with perhaps a bit more upward mobility based on "merit".
You would thus have a lot of "made men" at the base running organizations,
then come capo/bosses, followed by uber bosses etc. until you reach the
criminal equivalent of barons, dukes, etc.  Lots of potential for infighting
and activity specific to Vargr and even Aslan.

Just my thoughts for what they are worth.

Dan

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 15:24:38 2001
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From: WLane@syncata.com
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Subject: RE: [TML] First Blood in Classic Traveller
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 15:22:36 -0700
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Ah.

In my traveller universe at higher tech levels the back pack power supply is
done away with. as technology advanced so did power storage tech. all laser
weapons use a power pack simular to a magazine for an ACR. they slide the
power pack in and eject it just like a magazine and replace it. it never
occured to me to allow a bigger back pack mounted battery at higher tech to
increase output of thew weapon. i always assumed that no matter how much
energy i channel into the weapon the laser focusing equipment (yes i have no
idea what a lazer is made of so not razzing please 8P ) would only allow
beams of a certain strength.

well the idea is some food for thought.

Thanks

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: Eris Reddoch [mailto:eris@pcola.gulf.net]
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 2:39 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] First Blood in Classic Traveller


AuricTech Shipyards wrote:
 
> > --- WLane@syncata.com wrote:
> > 
> > **begin quote**
> > 
> > > Laser pistol (no pack) 2d
> > >
> > > Laser carbine (no pack)5d
> > >
> > > Laser Rifle (no pack)  7d
> > 
> > 
> > <snip>
> > 
> > Is this damage for clubbing someone over the head 
> > with these weapons? with out a power pack i assumed 
> > these weapons were useless. or is there something 
> > going on with them i need to know about. Thanks 8)

> **end quote**
 
> I took that to mean that these weapons could be employed
> either with internal power supplies of some sort (the "no 
> pack" damage rating), but that they could deliver more energy 
> (thus causing more damage) if connected to a backpack-mounted
> power pack.

That's precisely what I meant. IMTU, at higher TL's, laser weapons can
be built to use internal power supplies rather than depending upon the
large and bulky power packs. Generally, when fired without the power
packs they do less damage and fire fewer bolts between rechargings.

Eris
  the Heretic
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Ah.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>In my traveller universe at higher tech levels the =
back pack power supply is done away with. as technology advanced so did =
power storage tech. all laser weapons use a power pack simular to a =
magazine for an ACR. they slide the power pack in and eject it just =
like a magazine and replace it. it never occured to me to allow a =
bigger back pack mounted battery at higher tech to increase output of =
thew weapon. i always assumed that no matter how much energy i channel =
into the weapon the laser focusing equipment (yes i have no idea what a =
lazer is made of so not razzing please 8P ) would only allow beams of a =
certain strength.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>well the idea is some food for thought.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Thanks</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Bill</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Eris Reddoch [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:eris@pcola.gulf.net">mailto:eris@pcola.gulf.net</A>]</FON=
T>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 2:39 PM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: tml@travellercentral.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: Re: [TML] First Blood in Classic =
Traveller</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>AuricTech Shipyards wrote:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; --- WLane@syncata.com wrote:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; **begin quote**</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; Laser pistol (no pack) 2d</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; Laser carbine (no pack)5d</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; Laser Rifle (no pack)&nbsp; 7d</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &lt;snip&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; Is this damage for clubbing someone over =
the head </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; with these weapons? with out a power pack =
i assumed </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; these weapons were useless. or is there =
something </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; going on with them i need to know about. =
Thanks 8)</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; **end quote**</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; I took that to mean that these weapons could be =
employed</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; either with internal power supplies of some =
sort (the &quot;no </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; pack&quot; damage rating), but that they could =
deliver more energy </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; (thus causing more damage) if connected to a =
backpack-mounted</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; power pack.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>That's precisely what I meant. IMTU, at higher TL's, =
laser weapons can</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>be built to use internal power supplies rather than =
depending upon the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>large and bulky power packs. Generally, when fired =
without the power</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>packs they do less damage and fire fewer bolts =
between rechargings.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Eris</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp; the Heretic</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>The Traveller Mailing List.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Send email to tml@travellercentral.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To unsubscribe from this list, send email to =
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'unsubscribe tml-digest' in the BODY of the message, or use the web =
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TARGET=3D"_blank">http://tml.travellercentral.com</A>.</FONT></P>

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 15:28:23 2001
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I fear smart fabrics. They'd look at me and say "whoah! You're not 
wearing me!". They'd constrict and refuse to let me put them on....

- Rob.
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 15:32:07 2001
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Subject: RE: [TML] Criminal Organizations In The Traveler Universe
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Well IMTU there is an actual instellar crime orginization called "The Carson
Cartel"

Ill give a write up on them tomorrow when i have time but the basics are
this.

If it is illegal somewhere they see a market waiting to be exploited. they
will do anything for anyone. they deal with problems with "Hits". 

they are the interstellar version of the mafia. they are linked with some of
the larger Pirate organizations across the spinward marches.

In my universe on in unclaimed space is a Planet called Rendova 2. it is
ruled over by a several pirate groups. the only law is no explosives and no
chem or biologic weapons allowed.

The Carson Cartel has a base on Rendova.

Hasta

me

-----Original Message-----
From: Sinbad Sam [mailto:sinbad@hex.net]
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 2:36 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Criminal Organizations In The Traveler Universe


At 12:48 PM 4/12/2001 -0700, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>Sinbad Sam writes:
> > I would like to start/restart the discussion on the viability of
criminal
> > organizations in the Traveller Universe.
>
>Well, it's a bit hard to have an interstellar criminal organization due to
>the rather limited imperial laws and the variation in local laws; a single
>corporation might be perfectly legitimate in one world and criminal in 
>another,
>and be behaving the same way on both worlds.  Is that an interstellar
criminal
>organization?

Yes in your above example the interstellar corp could be classified as a 
interstellar criminal organization, in many persons views. But not in its 
founding purpose, kind a like various corps in todays world basically use 
child labor in third world countries to get bigger profit margin.

But could they be compared to the Mafias(Russian, Italian, European, 
American), Triads, Tongs, grifters, drug lords no, so those corps would not 
be classified as a organized criminal organizations. The corps could be 
classified being "Competitive" rather than criminal.<G>

What I was thinking of was organized smuggling of anything that a profit 
can be made from, dustspice to Imperial Weapons of War.

Computer crime on organized scale, ie hacking, industrial espionage, data 
theft, copy right violations.

Fencing of stolen items on an organized scale, and movement of same.

Extortion, kidnapping, drug manufacture/smuggling, tech running, organ 
legging, slavery, identity theft, counterfeiting of imperial/non imperial 
currency(yes it can be done), organized scam/confidence games, theft 
burglary rings, loan sharking, illegal gambling.....

In a limited Imperial laws such criminal organizations would thrive at 
least on local levels, once it becomes profitable beyond a certain point a 
larger organization will take over. Those larger organizations would/will 
cover many planets, and eventually subsector wide going on to sector wide.

Sinbad Sam

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<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Well IMTU there is an actual instellar crime =
orginization called &quot;The Carson Cartel&quot;</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Ill give a write up on them tomorrow when i have time =
but the basics are this.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>If it is illegal somewhere they see a market waiting =
to be exploited. they will do anything for anyone. they deal with =
problems with &quot;Hits&quot;. </FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>they are the interstellar version of the mafia. they =
are linked with some of the larger Pirate organizations across the =
spinward marches.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>In my universe on in unclaimed space is a Planet =
called Rendova 2. it is ruled over by a several pirate groups. the only =
law is no explosives and no chem or biologic weapons =
allowed.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>The Carson Cartel has a base on Rendova.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hasta</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>me</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Sinbad Sam [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:sinbad@hex.net">mailto:sinbad@hex.net</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 2:36 PM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: tml@travellercentral.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: Re: [TML] Criminal Organizations In The =
Traveler Universe</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>At 12:48 PM 4/12/2001 -0700, Anthony Jackson =
wrote:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;Sinbad Sam writes:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; I would like to start/restart the =
discussion on the viability of criminal</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; organizations in the Traveller =
Universe.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;Well, it's a bit hard to have an interstellar =
criminal organization due to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;the rather limited imperial laws and the =
variation in local laws; a single</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;corporation might be perfectly legitimate in one =
world and criminal in </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;another,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;and be behaving the same way on both =
worlds.&nbsp; Is that an interstellar criminal</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;organization?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Yes in your above example the interstellar corp could =
be classified as a </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>interstellar criminal organization, in many persons =
views. But not in its </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>founding purpose, kind a like various corps in =
todays world basically use </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>child labor in third world countries to get bigger =
profit margin.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>But could they be compared to the Mafias(Russian, =
Italian, European, </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>American), Triads, Tongs, grifters, drug lords no, =
so those corps would not </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>be classified as a organized criminal organizations. =
The corps could be </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>classified being &quot;Competitive&quot; rather than =
criminal.&lt;G&gt;</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>What I was thinking of was organized smuggling of =
anything that a profit </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>can be made from, dustspice to Imperial Weapons of =
War.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Computer crime on organized scale, ie hacking, =
industrial espionage, data </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>theft, copy right violations.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Fencing of stolen items on an organized scale, and =
movement of same.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Extortion, kidnapping, drug manufacture/smuggling, =
tech running, organ </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>legging, slavery, identity theft, counterfeiting of =
imperial/non imperial </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>currency(yes it can be done), organized =
scam/confidence games, theft </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>burglary rings, loan sharking, illegal =
gambling.....</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a limited Imperial laws such criminal =
organizations would thrive at </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>least on local levels, once it becomes profitable =
beyond a certain point a </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>larger organization will take over. Those larger =
organizations would/will </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>cover many planets, and eventually subsector wide =
going on to sector wide.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sinbad Sam</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>The Traveller Mailing List.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Send email to tml@travellercentral.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To unsubscribe from this list, send email to =
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 15:32:53 2001
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From: WLane@syncata.com
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] First Blood in Classic Traveller
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 15:31:24 -0700
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Yeah! 4 more and im an ace! 8P

Hasta

-----Original Message-----
From: Eris Reddoch [mailto:eris@pcola.gulf.net]
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 2:49 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] First Blood in Classic Traveller


> WLane@syncata.com wrote:

> > Laser Rifle (no pack)  7d

> <snip>
 
> Is this damage for clubbing someone over the head with these weapons?

LOL! I have to give you an honorary keyboard kill for this one. I was
just about to take a drink from my glass when I read it, so you missed a
reall kill by about 1 second. <g>

Now, about hand weapons....

I'd like to include the PC's Strength into the equation on them without
getting too complicated. Maybe STR/5 dice added to the hand weapon to
represent the additional damage a strong fighter would dish out?

Eris
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Yeah! 4 more and im an ace! 8P</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hasta</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Eris Reddoch [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:eris@pcola.gulf.net">mailto:eris@pcola.gulf.net</A>]</FON=
T>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 2:49 PM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: tml@travellercentral.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: Re: [TML] First Blood in Classic =
Traveller</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; WLane@syncata.com wrote:</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; Laser Rifle (no pack)&nbsp; 7d</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &lt;snip&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Is this damage for clubbing someone over the =
head with these weapons?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>LOL! I have to give you an honorary keyboard kill for =
this one. I was</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>just about to take a drink from my glass when I read =
it, so you missed a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>reall kill by about 1 second. &lt;g&gt;</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Now, about hand weapons....</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I'd like to include the PC's Strength into the =
equation on them without</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>getting too complicated. Maybe STR/5 dice added to =
the hand weapon to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>represent the additional damage a strong fighter =
would dish out?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Eris</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>The Traveller Mailing List.</FONT>
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 15:50:12 2001
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I know there is an NPC write up in JTS called Mother Shom IIRC Its by Loren. 
I always thought that was a cool name. I always pictured a little old woman 
as a Marlon Brando type godfather/mother :-)

The shom family one of the five families of Regina :-)

Mike
_________________________________________________________________
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 15:54:10 2001
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Subject: [TML] Re: Smart Fabrics
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 18:49:53 -0400
Organization: None To Speak Of
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On Wed, 11 Apr 2001 23:02:44 -0700 (PDT), Glenn Grant <neo@total.net>
wrote:

>Something I wrote up recently for my campaign...
>- -- Some of this information is based on Greg Porter's _Central Supply Catalogue_.
>- -- This uses Trav Tech Levels, not GURPS.

>Your comments are welcomed.

My comment is:

"Can I put this _In_A_Store_Near_You_?"

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
(ILink: news without the abuse. Ask via email.)
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 16:09:30 2001
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Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:09:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] Criminal Organizations In The Traveler Universe
To: a a tml Tod <tml@travellercentral.com>
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>From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>

>Well, it's a bit hard to have an interstellar criminal organization due
>to the rather limited imperial laws and the variation in local laws; a
>single corporation might be perfectly legitimate in one world and
>criminal in another, and be behaving the same way on both worlds.  Is
>that an interstellar criminal organization?

Inasmuch as my current campaign revolves around the Regina Subsector
Special Police, whose mission is to provide intelligence and other
assistance relating to interstellar organized crime to Imperial member
states within the Duchy of Regina, I suppose that I should weigh in on
this one.

In a more legalistic interstellar state, I might tip my hat toward RICO
and define an interstellar criminal organization as something in the
nature of an organization that engages in a pattern of conduct that
violates the laws of Imperial member states and/or Imperial law.  

The Imperium being an empire, governed basically by the ruling class's
notions of what is good for the regions under their control, however, I
lean toward applying Justice Potter Stewart's famous dictum pornography: 
the nobility knows it when it sees it.

Another issue is, what are the consequences of being an interstellar
criminal organization?  It's really a label of academic significance.  The
nobility can investigate interstellar wrongdoing within their regions
whenever they want.  They don't have to invoke any special legal
authority.  "Interstellar" is the hook that allows the Imperium, through
the nobility (and the MoJ) to investigate stuff; there is no separate
requirement for "criminal."

--Glenn

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 16:10:14 2001
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Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:09:13 -0700
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At 10:10 AM -0700 4/12/01, Douglas Berry wrote:
>TO: The Council of Elders
>
>FROM: Agent Penguin
>
>SUBJECT: Bruce
>
>Subject has fallen for our "fake TML" ruse.  Suggest we follow the original
>plan, and change hosts weekly for the next year.  By that time, no one will
>believe him when he reports what he is scheduled to witness outside
>Flagstaff on 9/9/2002.
>
>Fnord.


Fnord.
We have high hopes for this ruse (note: the lack of a preceding Fnord 
will allow "Bruce", remember don't let him find out his real name!, 
to see what he thinks is a "secret message").  By keeping him focused 
on trying to keep up with the moves will prevent him from realizing 
the real truth that TML never really move!  Please remember, even 
Agent Penguin believes that we are trying to loose "Bruce" in a 
series of moves.
Fnord.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 16:22:38 2001
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Subject: Re: [TML] Criminal Organizations In The Traveler Universe
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Slimey Joe Siskovitch     Deceased 1106-?64    Credo/Regina/Regina/Spinward
Marches

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 16:23:23 2001
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Hello Folks,
  For those who wonder...

  I originally purchased GGG (Guns Guns Guns) out of curiosity.  I later
decided that I rather liked GGG's approach to gun design because it
includes specifics that GURPS VEHICLES leaves out - specifically, bullet
velocity.  If nothing else - the values derived in the GGG system and
converted to GURPS tend to be within the +/- 20% leeway that GURPS VEHICLES
suggests people use for customizing their "guns" within the GURPS system.

  I purchased a copy of Vehicle Design System because there were a few
things in GURPS VEHICLES I didn't like or agree with and wanted to see how
Greg Porter approached the issue.  I rather like VDS and would recommend it
to anyone who wants to use it with their favorite game design system...

    Hal
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 16:33:24 2001
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From: "Michael Daumen" <daumen@mindspring.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
References: <200104122218.f3CMIEg19188@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Subject: [TML] Criminal Organizations In The Traveler Universe
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 19:27:27 -0400
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>I would like to start/restart the discussion on the viability of criminal
>organizations in the Traveller Universe.

>Things like degree of organization and size of area of controls.

Unless we are dealing with a crime syndicate that controls a world (like
Tatooine, I guess, controlled by the Hutts), I imagine it's difficult for a
multi-system organization to maintain control.  Any such large enterprises
would be much like the Imperium itself - interested in keeping the peace and
getting it's cut.  I picture a group of planetary capos meeting to claim
authority to control their planet's vice, but not much higher structure.
When a smuggler or fence tries to sell stolen goods on another syndicate's
world, she would probably have to "check in" with the local capo to make
sure she's not stepping on any toes or bringing down the law.  And that's
the second reason - the Imperium would treat multi-system organizations much
like pirates, under the doctrine that it controls the space between worlds,
and a multi-system organization by definition has some presence there.  With
planetary crime, the Imperium leaves it up to member worlds.

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 16:42:21 2001
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Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 18:41:11 -0500
From: Charles R Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net>
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Bruce wrote;

>I was away for a week and, like many, many, apparently missed the
automatic
>handover. So, you people think you can hide from me, do you? Ha! You
>forget who you're dealing with! I am the sensor guru! My
instrumentation
>can spot a pirate corsair lurking in the Oort cloud! Your evasive
tactics
>are as nothing to me! Ha! HAHAHAHA!

Bruce I thought you  were off counting Vilani ships at Bernard's Star.
That should have been at least a 2 week trip.

>Glad I found the list. Now all I need to do is find time to keep
reading it...

welcome back

Charles H

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 17:14:23 2001
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Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 18:36:11 -0500
From: "D. Smart" <dsmart@imagin.net>
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Subject: Re: [TML] You people think you can hide?
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Bruce Macintosh wrote:
> 
> I was away for a week and, like many, many, apparently missed the automatic
> handover. So, you people think you can hide from me, do you? Ha! You
> forget who you're dealing with! I am the sensor guru! My instrumentation
> can spot a pirate corsair lurking in the Oort cloud! Your evasive tactics
> are as nothing to me! Ha! HAHAHAHA!
> 
> (ahem.)
> 
> Glad I found the list. Now all I need to do is find time to keep reading it...
> 
> Bruce

So much for that FS-sponsored jammer. By the by, where can
we get the
most current version of your sensor rules?

David
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 17:21:09 2001
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Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 20:19:45 -0400
To: tml@travellercentral.com, tml-digest@travellercentral.com
From: Glenn Grant <neo@total.net>
Subject: [TML] Re: Smart Fabrics
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Tod G. sez,

>I hope this is posted on the web somewhere
>[snip]
>  > --------------------
>  > Smart Fabrics
>  > -------------


Hey, Jeff Z. -- do you want to put this up at Trav Central?  Let me 
know if you need me to e-mail you a copy.

BTW, any of these "=A0" things should be deleted from the text. 
They're typos that appear to have been inserted by Eudora.

Best,

  + GMG +
-- 
                         Glenn Grant
                       <neo@total.net>
        "I hate waking up in someone else's nightmare.
   I especially hate waking up in someone else's bathroom."
                         --The Maxx
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 17:21:09 2001
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Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 20:19:45 -0400
To: tml@travellercentral.com, tml-digest@travellercentral.com
From: Glenn Grant <neo@total.net>
Subject: [TML] Re: Smart Fabrics
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Tod G. sez,

>I hope this is posted on the web somewhere
>[snip]
>  > --------------------
>  > Smart Fabrics
>  > -------------


Hey, Jeff Z. -- do you want to put this up at Trav Central?  Let me 
know if you need me to e-mail you a copy.

BTW, any of these "=A0" things should be deleted from the text. 
They're typos that appear to have been inserted by Eudora.

Best,

  + GMG +
-- 
                         Glenn Grant
                       <neo@total.net>
        "I hate waking up in someone else's nightmare.
   I especially hate waking up in someone else's bathroom."
                         --The Maxx
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 17:28:29 2001
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Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 20:27:28 -0400
To: tml@travellercentral.com
From: Glenn Grant <neo@total.net>
Subject: RE: [TML] Smart Fabrics
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WLane@syncata.com said,

>This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
>this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
>
>- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0C376.A875E5F0
>Content-Type: text/plain;
>	charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>Glenn,
>
>Fantastic. thanks i was looking for more things to give my players to =
>mess
>around with.=20
>
>Bill

<snip quotation of entire long message, in plain text then again in HTML>

Glad you liked it, Bill.  I hope it's useful.

BTW, you're still piling up MIME attachments in the Digests.  To quote Leonard:

Visit this URL for instructions in how to set your email to plain text
format.

http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/ncf/freeplace/freemail/plaintext.html

And, while we're cheerfully beating up on you: please don't quote the 
entirety of a message in your replies.  Your mail program is 
obviously set to attach the original messages automatically.  Turn 
that off, too.

Thanks,

   +GMG +
-- 
                Glenn Grant  <neo@total.net>
        "How come if we can send a man to the Moon,
         we can't send a man to the Moon anymore?"
            --Cmdr Rick, _Prisoners of Gravity_
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 17:45:05 2001
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From: "Pronto" <pronto_r031@telus.net>
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Subject: Re: [TML] You people think you can hide?
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:41:25 -0700
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> At 10:10 AM -0700 4/12/01, Douglas Berry wrote:
> >TO: The Council of Elders
> >
> >FROM: Agent Penguin
> >
> >SUBJECT: Bruce
> >
> >Subject has fallen for our "fake TML" ruse.  Suggest we follow the
original
> >plan, and change hosts weekly for the next year.  By that time, no one
will
> >believe him when he reports what he is scheduled to witness outside
> >Flagstaff on 9/9/2002.
> >
> >Fnord.
>
>
> Fnord.
> We have high hopes for this ruse (note: the lack of a preceding Fnord
> will allow "Bruce", remember don't let him find out his real name!,
> to see what he thinks is a "secret message").  By keeping him focused
> on trying to keep up with the moves will prevent him from realizing
> the real truth that TML never really move!  Please remember, even
> Agent Penguin believes that we are trying to loose "Bruce" in a
> series of moves.
> Fnord.
>
I don't know about 'Bruce' but you sure as stink lost me.   :)


Pronto
AKA Brian Taylor

 We must welcome the future, remembering that soon it will be the
past; and we must respect the past, knowing that once it was all that
was humanly possible.                  - George Santayana


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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 17:45:10 2001
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Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 19:47:24 -0500
To: tml@travellercentral.com
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Criminal Organizations In The Traveler Universe
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At 10:49 PM 4/12/2001 +0000, you wrote:
>I know there is an NPC write up in JTS called Mother Shom IIRC Its by 
>Loren. I always thought that was a cool name. I always pictured a little 
>old woman as a Marlon Brando type godfather/mother :-)
>
>The shom family one of the five families of Regina :-)
>
>Mike

According to the JTAS index it is in JTAS 19 and it's by Terry McInnes

Jimmy Simpson
      nimrodd@mail.com

"The avalanche has already started.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
                       -Kosh Naranek (Babylon 5)

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 19:09:16 2001
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From: "Bruce Macintosh" <bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
References: <200104130044.f3D0isD19773@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] You people think you can hide?
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 19:14:08 -0700
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>TO: The Council of Elders
>
>FROM: Agent Penguin
>
>SUBJECT: Bruce
>
>Subject has fallen for our "fake TML" ruse.  Suggest we follow the original
>plan, and change hosts weekly for the next year.  By that time, no one will
>believe him when he reports what he is scheduled to witness outside
>Flagstaff on 9/9/2002.
>
>Fnord.

No-one believes anything I report now, so I don't see why this will
be any different...

"Bruce" (if that is my name.)



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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 19:14:14 2001
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From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] Criminal Organizations In The Traveler Universe
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 19:13:00 -0700
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From: Daniel Phelps <phelpsd@gate.net>


<a lot of good stuff>

You forgot, however, to include "vice".

Organized crime has traditionally made its fortune by providing illegal
services and goods, and/or ferrying goods and services from places where
they are legal and cheap to places where they are illegal and profitable.
Prostitution, drugs and druglike technologies (tasps etc.), pornography, and
other such things are typical areas of profitability.  I'm not sure if you
mentioned assassination but that's another illegal service one often turns
to Da Mob (whatever form it may take) to obtain.  Gambling is another area
that organized crime tends to dominate.  For one thing, they have more
freedom in the debt recovery area when people lose.

Kiri  ^_^

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 20:16:15 2001
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Subject: Re: [TML] Criminal Organizations In The Traveler Universe
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Was written:

>You forgot, however, to include "vice".
>
>Organized crime has traditionally made its fortune by providing illegal
>services and goods, and/or ferrying goods and services from places where
>they are legal and cheap to places where they are illegal and profitable.
>Prostitution, drugs and druglike technologies (tasps etc.), pornography,
and
>other such things are typical areas of profitability.

Indeed I did consider what you suggest then considered if the Empire would
be concerned.  Ferrying legitimate goods such that you buy low and sell
high, that is goods that are not proscribed by the Empire but which might
contravene inconvenient local laws, is just sharp business practice.

In my opinion prostitution and pornography would only be of concern if it
involved slavery.  Drugs and druglike technologies would only concern them
if they were specifically among those things proscribed by the Empire.

Was further written:

I'm not sure if you
>mentioned assassination but that's another illegal service one often turns
>to Da Mob (whatever form it may take) to obtain.

Considered it, included it.   In my opinion assassination is of Imperial
interest only if the crime occurs on a Star Port, affects Star Port
operations or interstellar trade or if it involves people of specific
interest such as Imperial Officials and Imperial nobility.

Was written:

Gambling is another area
>that organized crime tends to dominate.  For one thing, they have more
>freedom in the debt recovery area when people lose.

Considered gambling as well but figured the Empire would not care as it
would be a system/planetary matter.  Shylocking is another area I considered
but decided it would be a system/planetary matter.  That being said if the
criminals were too brazen and too widespread in influence such that it was
felt that their operations interfered with trade or threatened people of
special interest then the Empire would get involved.

One thing I did leave out was labor racketeering.  That clearly has the
potential to affect interstellar trade by affecting Star Port Operations
with strikes, work slow downs and accidents.

Dan
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 21:34:30 2001
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From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 23:09:24 -0500
To: tml@travellercentral.com
In-Reply-To: <10411.232709.7a7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] OT : Icosahedriphobia [LONG]
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On 04/11/01 at 11:27 PM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:

>> To wit:  Helpless characters (such as one bound up
>> tightly with his head on the chopping block) can be
>> killed in a single round regardless of hit points.  All
>> the HP in the world aren't going to stop that axe from
>> severing your head from the rest of your body.

>And I remember when they *added* that rule to D&D. At least
>5 years after it came out.  (Note:  I started playing with
>the first *printing* of first edition D&D. Back in 1974)

Same here, but, the group I played with were never adverse
to changing, or ignoring, rules we didn't think made sense.
I remember a game early on where one PC attempted to chop of
the head of a tied and bound enemy and got a very bad roll.
He said, "You've got to be kidding!"  I said, "No way you
missed that hit!" and that's when we invented the "coup de
gras" rule.  I rather suspect that invention was repeated in
hundreds of groups around the world.  <g>
 

Eris
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 22:09:21 2001
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Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> 
> From: Daniel Phelps <phelpsd@gate.net>
> 
> <a lot of good stuff>
> 
> You forgot, however, to include "vice".

As in "vice president"?
 
> Organized crime has traditionally made its fortune by providing illegal
> services and goods, and/or ferrying goods and services from places where
> they are legal and cheap to places where they are illegal and profitable.
> Prostitution, drugs and druglike technologies (tasps etc.), pornography, and
> other such things are typical areas of profitability.

Nooo kidding. Just ask Yahoo.com!

>  I'm not sure if you
> mentioned assassination but that's another illegal service one often turns
> to Da Mob (whatever form it may take) to obtain.  Gambling is another area
> that organized crime tends to dominate.  For one thing, they have more
> freedom in the debt recovery area when people lose.
> 
> Kiri  ^_^

Um..Kiri? If I may ask..just how do you know so much about
this kind of stuff?

David
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Thu Apr 12 23:27:45 2001
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From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com>
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Subject: Re: [TML] Criminal Organizations In The Traveler Universe
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From: D. Smart <dsmart@imagin.net>


>Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
>>
>> You forgot, however, to include "vice".
>
>As in "vice president"?
>
Yeah...

>> Organized crime has traditionally made its fortune by providing illegal
services and goods, and/or ferrying goods and services from places where
they are legal and cheap to places where they are illegal and profitable.
>> Prostitution, drugs and druglike technologies (tasps etc.), pornography,
and other such things are typical areas of profitability.
>>
>Nooo kidding. Just ask Yahoo.com!
>
Don't need to.  ^_^

>>  I'm not sure if you mentioned assassination but that's another illegal
service one often turns to Da Mob (whatever form it may take) to obtain.
Gambling is another area that organized crime tends to dominate.  For one
thing, they have more freedom in the debt recovery area when people lose.
>>
>Um..Kiri? If I may ask..just how do you know so much about
>this kind of stuff?
>
Do you *reaaaaaaaaaaaaaally* want to know?

Kiri  ^_^

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