Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3800
Date: | 3/16/01 3:50:35 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Friday, March 16 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3800
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
RE: Jump drives and damage.
They said megawat lasers he he heh he
Re: Jump drives and damage.
RE: Jump drives and damage.
Re: Jump drives and damage.
RE: They said megawat lasers he he heh he
Am I getting through
Re: They said megawat lasers he he heh he
RE: They said megawat lasers he he heh he
Re: Am I getting through
Re: [www] 14 Mar 2001 - Freelance Traveller Updated
Sword Worlds Jump TL
re: A Question for the List
RE: Jump drives and damage.
RE: Jump drives and damage.
RE: Jump drives and damage.
Re: Newbie Essays (The effects of gravitics on the surroundings)
Re: This list
Re: They said megawat lasers he he heh he
Re: They said megawat lasers he he heh he
RE: Jump drives and damage.
RE: Jump drives and damage.
Jump Bubble
RE: Jump drives and damage.
RE: Jump drives and damage.
RE: They said megawat lasers he he heh he
GDW product
Re: Jump drives and damage.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 17:58:25 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage.
On 03/15/01 at 04:50 PM, "Rob Davenport" <rgd@ohio.voyager.net> said:
>On 15 Mar 2001, at 13:08, William Lane wrote:
>> and yes before you ask there are ships floating around in jump
>> space with dead crews.
>Well that just begs the question (for me at least) - can one run
>into these Marie Celestials while in j-space IYTU?
>(I'd guess canonically the answer is no, but your description gave
>me a mental picture of a crew, part way into the week long jump
>when a ghostly derelict slowly moves into their 'vicinity', and all
>the interesting things they might find aboard - and/or have to fend
>off until they reenter n-space. Evocative maybe, but not likely
>possible given canon descriptions.)
I've never done it, but it's such a wonderful possiblity...<sigh>...maybe it *is* possible, just so unlikely that it's never been reported to have happened.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 17:02:00 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: They said megawat lasers he he heh he
see: http://www.fe.doe.gov/oil_gas/drilling/laserdrilling.html
The Department of Energy is experimenting with using lasers to drill for
oil.
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 17:17:41 -0700
From: "Johnny" <gamersvault@yucca.net>
Subject: Re: Jump drives and damage.
Ok, let me hazard a question about jumping. It would seem to me that to jump
to a certain system you would have to be pointed in the direction of that
system when the jump bubble is created. But I can also see the argument that
jump space isn't normal space so you could be pointed in any direction
(relative to the system you are jumping to) and jump to any system within
your ships capabilities. How do you Gentle Readers see this IYTU?
- - Johnny
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 16:30:58 -0800
From: William Lane <wlane@Asera.com>
Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage.
Well,
again i always felt you still had to be pointed in the general direction you
were going.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Johnny [mailto:gamersvault@yucca.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 4:18 PM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: Re: Jump drives and damage.
Ok, let me hazard a question about jumping. It would seem to me that to jump
to a certain system you would have to be pointed in the direction of that
system when the jump bubble is created. But I can also see the argument that
jump space isn't normal space so you could be pointed in any direction
(relative to the system you are jumping to) and jump to any system within
your ships capabilities. How do you Gentle Readers see this IYTU?
- - Johnny
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 18:35:02 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Jump drives and damage.
On 03/15/01 at 05:17 PM, "Johnny" <gamersvault@yucca.net> said:
>Ok, let me hazard a question about jumping. It would seem to me
>that to jump to a certain system you would have to be pointed in
>the direction of that system when the jump bubble is created. But I
>can also see the argument that jump space isn't normal space so you
>could be pointed in any direction (relative to the system you are
>jumping to) and jump to any system within your ships capabilities.
>How do you Gentle Readers see this IYTU?
Well, IMTU, the ship goes into jumpspace nose first. If another
ship can observe the actual insertion they can make a more
reasonable guess as to the ship's destination...at least they can
eliminate about 270 degrees from consideration. I don't want a
second ship to be able to pin point a jumping ship's destination,
but informed guesses are good. <g>
That's just MTU, of course.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 17:20:28 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: They said megawat lasers he he heh he
Wouldn't hitting a methane pocket with a laser drill be a Bad Thing? Yet
they're talking about using them for natural gas drilling as well. I don't
get it....
<shrugs>
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Bruce Johnson
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 4:02 PM
> To: traveller mailing list
> Subject: They said megawat lasers he he heh he
>
>
> see: http://www.fe.doe.gov/oil_gas/drilling/laserdrilling.html
>
> The Department of Energy is experimenting with using lasers to drill for
> oil.
>
> --
> Bruce Johnson
> University of Arizona
> College of Pharmacy
> Information Technology Group
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 20:49:23 -0500
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com>
Subject: Am I getting through
Several e-mails from me to the list seem to have gotten lost recently.
So I'm hoping this one will show up.
Ob Trav: The ping time from Regina to Reference
David Shayne
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 17:48:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: They said megawat lasers he he heh he
Jesse Degraff writes:
> Wouldn't hitting a methane pocket with a laser drill be a Bad Thing? Yet
> they're talking about using them for natural gas drilling as well. I don't
> get it....
Shrug. Probably not really, its not like there's a lot of oxygen down there.
The methane might ignite once it comes out of the hole, but it might do that
anyway.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 18:11:22 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: They said megawat lasers he he heh he
See? That's artists for ya'. Hadn't thought of the lack of serious
oxygen...
:)
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Anthony Jackson
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 5:49 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: They said megawat lasers he he heh he
>
>
> Jesse Degraff writes:
> > Wouldn't hitting a methane pocket with a laser drill be a Bad
> Thing? Yet
> > they're talking about using them for natural gas drilling as
> well. I don't
> > get it....
>
> Shrug. Probably not really, its not like there's a lot of oxygen
> down there.
> The methane might ignite once it comes out of the hole, but it
> might do that
> anyway.
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 22:25:53 -0500
From: knightsky@juno.com
Subject: Re: Am I getting through
On Thu, 15 Mar 2001 20:49:23 -0500 "DaveShayne"
<daveshayne@email.msn.com> writes:
> Several e-mails from me to the list seem to have gotten lost
> recently.
> So I'm hoping this one will show up.
>
> Ob Trav: The ping time from Regina to Reference
>
> David Shayne
>
>
>
Five by five.
Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."
________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 21:39:49 -0600
From: Charles R Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net>
Subject: Re: [www] 14 Mar 2001 - Freelance Traveller Updated
Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
> - Three new website reviews can be found in LinkLooks
How do you get there? LinkLooks is not in the Table of Contents.
Table of Contents:
What's New
Information Center
Critic's Corner
Multimedia Gallery
In A Store Near You
Raconteur's Rest
Doing It My Way
Kurishdam
Up Close And Personal
Active Measures
The Rice Archives
The Shipyard
The Labship
If it is a subcatagory could you please list the main entry from the ToC
Thanks
Charles H
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 21:55:55 -0600
From: Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
Subject: Sword Worlds Jump TL
quick question: have the Sword Worlds always been able to maintain J-2
technology? If they lost it, how long did it take for them to regain it?
I'm assuming that they had and used J-2 tech on their journey from Terra
to the Marches.
Dan Roseberry (plop101) Hot Springs, Arkansas USA
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 21:50:24 -0600
From: Charles R Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net>
Subject: re: A Question for the List
Glenn Goffin wrote:
>>From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net>
>
>>Does anyone know anything about "Far Away; The Magazine of Speculative
>>Gaming"? I seem to have volume #1 but no others.
>
>I think it was called "Far and Away." I think I have issues 1 and 2.
I
>bought them (used for $1 each, as I recall) because I liked the cover
art.
> I don't remember what's in them.
The cover of #1 "FAR*AWAY" (with * indicating a four pointed star)
Inside the front cover the title is "FAR & AWAY". This is repeted at the
bottom of each page.
the Editor titles the Magizine "Far and Away Magizine"
so either version could be considered correct.
Charles
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:54:51 -0800
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage.
Any suggestion,
While in jump space my group of players activated the manuever drive(a
HeplaR thruster). Any thought on what I can do with this short of a total
destruction result.
Antony
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:54:49 -0800
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage.
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Rob Davenport
Sent: Thursday, 15 March 2001 1:50 PM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage.
On 15 Mar 2001, at 13:08, William Lane wrote:
> and yes before you ask there are ships floating around in jump
> space with dead crews.
Well that just begs the question (for me at least) - can one run
into these Marie Celestials while in j-space IYTU?
(I'd guess canonically the answer is no, but your description
gave me a mental picture of a crew, part way into the week long
jump when a ghostly derelict slowly moves into their 'vicinity',
and all the interesting things they might find aboard - and/or
have to fend off until they reenter n-space. Evocative maybe,
but not likely possible given canon descriptions.)
Rob
- ---
Rob Davenport 0301 C438875-B 713
One of the adventures in a Challenge magazine (I think it was a Halloween
issue) had just this happen.
Antony
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:54:53 -0800
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage.
I personally prefer a jump initiation where it the grid energisation
sequence which sets the destination.
Being able to site down an artificially generated wormhole before entering
jump would presumably allow for FTL communications systems other than ships
carrying all communications. I am picturing a "ship", could be a robotic
device which begins the jump sequence, then during this sighting phase when
a ship would be making its course correction, it burst transmits. Then it
either enters jump normally or possibly pulls out.
Result would be the burst communications travels the wormhole in zero time.
With possible a ship following to emerge a week later.
In my opinion this would radically change the nature of the universe.
Regarding the grid
The grid has enough redundancy to still function to get a ship into jump,
say if the hull was damaged. But the protective bubble may not be as stable
and could, if the gap was large enough distort into the ship.
Antony
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 22:08:17 -0600
From: Charles R Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Newbie Essays (The effects of gravitics on the surroundings)
Bruce Johnson wrote:
>Antony Farrell wrote:
>
>> Looking at my FFS1 TL11 Dragonfly class air/raft I wouldn't want to
stand
>> behind it as it has a HEPlaR Thruster generating 2 tons of thrust.
Some of
>> my other grav vehicles used turbo jets, and many of them used
turbines to
>> produce power. I think this would make them quite noisy. Certainly I
would
>> restrict them from built up areas.
>>
>> Traffic offence, Sonic emissions above a proscribed level.
>> The HePlaR thruster on many grav vehicles is particularly
frightening.
>>
>> Antony
>
>This is one thing that has always bothered me about both FFS1 and FFS2;
>they have a huge blind spot regarding electric motors.
>
>Here we have powerplants on these things which are typically vastly
>overrated for their power draw, yet no one's ever though to just slap
on
>a decent 3/4 horse electric motor with a prop on the shaft and fly away
>silently!
<shameless plug>
http://home1.gte.net/res04u7k/Traveller/hrules/elect_prop.html
</shameless plug>
Charles H
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 22:16:39 -0600
From: Charles R Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net>
Subject: Re: This list
Johnny wrote:
>Is this list for Classic Traveller too?
Well, we haven't killed any CT fans yet ;^)
But gaurd your keyboard, we kill them on a regular basis.
Charles H
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 20:34:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Free Trader <freetrader2300@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: They said megawat lasers he he heh he
- --- Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> wrote:
> The methane might ignite once it comes out of the
> hole, but it might do that
> anyway.
Blow out would be a serious problem because you
wouldn't be using drilling mud with a laser. Down
hole pressures can get awfully high.
=====
- - "Free Trader" <freetrader2300@yahoo.com>
Visit Free Trader's Traveller Pages:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dunes/8426/traveller/
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 20:55:41 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: They said megawat lasers he he heh he
In mail you write:
> Wouldn't hitting a methane pocket with a laser drill be a Bad Thing? Yet
> they're talking about using them for natural gas drilling as well. I don't
> get it....
It needs *air* to ignite...
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 23:20:06 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage.
On 03/16/01 at 11:54 AM, "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com> said:
>I personally prefer a jump initiation where it the grid
>energisation sequence which sets the destination.
>Being able to site down an artificially generated wormhole before
>entering jump would presumably allow for FTL communications systems
>other than ships carrying all communications. I am picturing a
>"ship", could be a robotic device which begins the jump sequence,
>then during this sighting phase when a ship would be making its
>course correction, it burst transmits. Then it either enters jump
>normally or possibly pulls out.
Certainly possible to send it, but the communications would still be
stuck in jumpspace for the same week as the ship...IMTU, anyway.
You aren't sighting normal space on the other side of a wormhole,
you're sighting inside the mouth of the hole into jumpspace itself.
>Result would be the burst communications travels the wormhole in
>zero time. With possible a ship following to emerge a week later.
Not IMTU. <g>
>In my opinion this would radically change the nature of the
>universe.
And yes it would change things if you allowed that...I don't. <g>
>Regarding the grid
>The grid has enough redundancy to still function to get a ship into
>jump, say if the hull was damaged. But the protective bubble may
>not be as stable and could, if the gap was large enough distort
>into the ship.
Yep, same in IMTU, not get the ship in, but protect it while there.
Breeches in the grid lead to jumpspace intrusions and nasy results.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 18:26:11 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage.
William Lane wrote :
> >Well that just begs the question (for me at least) - can one run
> >into these Marie Celestials while in j-space IYTU?
>
> Well as you stipulated canonically the answer is no. that said this is MTU
> so here is the way some things work. The Imperium has never developed the
> technology to actually see anything beyond the Jump bubble.
Just as piece of reference, I have always run jump failure in jump along the
lines of the E.E Smith book "Subspace Explorers", mainly becasue I thought
it was such a cool idea.
Basically, the reason no ships had survived jump failure prior to the heroes
in the book, was that if you came out of jump through drive failure, not
only did the ship tend to tear itself apart (the bit still under the bubble
still travelling forward) you basically had a huge "charge" left on the
ship.(I won't try and remember what the charge was) This meant the first
time you contacted a significant sized mass, the "discharge" tended to
destroy the ship.
Our heroes survived by noting the effect of interacting with small bits of
non-ship matter, and played out a spool of wire into the planetary
atmosphere, the charge vapourizing the wire but prveneting destuction of the
ship in a huge single discharge tbecause the small piece of wire vapourized
before the majority of the charge could travel through it.
The science is pretty shaky, but it led to some great scenes.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 05:55:46
From: "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com>
Subject: Jump Bubble
There have been several references to jump bubbles in the discussions of
"Jump Drives and Damage". I came across this picture that comes close to the
way I envision the jump bubble appearing as a ship exits jump space.
http://www.kettering.edu/~drussell/Demos/doppler/mach1.html
A little imagination is needed: replace the blue sky with a star background
and the white cloud with the blue glow of the exit flash.
In any case, a neat picture!
John
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 00:18:24 -0600
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage.
At 11:54 AM 3/16/2001 -0800, you wrote:
>Any suggestion,
>
>While in jump space my group of players activated the manuever drive(a
>HeplaR thruster). Any thought on what I can do with this short of a total
>destruction result.
>
>Antony
If you subscribe to the jump bubble theory, it would possibly ignite the
hydrogen forming the jump bubble.
Jimmy Simpson
nimrodd@mail.com
"The avalanche has already started.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
-Kosh Naranek (Babylon 5)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 22:42:10 -0800
From: "J-Man" <jman31415@home.com>
Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage.
If doing so was so deadly, I would think there would be so many failsafes
built in that you'd have to tear the engine room apart to disable them.
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Jimmy Simpson
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 22:18
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage.
At 11:54 AM 3/16/2001 -0800, you wrote:
>Any suggestion,
>
>While in jump space my group of players activated the manuever drive(a
>HeplaR thruster). Any thought on what I can do with this short of a total
>destruction result.
>
>Antony
If you subscribe to the jump bubble theory, it would possibly ignite the
hydrogen forming the jump bubble.
Jimmy Simpson
nimrodd@mail.com
"The avalanche has already started.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
-Kosh Naranek (Babylon 5)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 22:49:06 -0800
From: "J-Man" <jman31415@home.com>
Subject: RE: They said megawat lasers he he heh he
Oh leave it to Leonard to get 'technical'..Details details...:) <nudge
Leonard>
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 20:56
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: Re: They said megawat lasers he he heh he
In mail you write:
> Wouldn't hitting a methane pocket with a laser drill be a Bad Thing? Yet
> they're talking about using them for natural gas drilling as well. I
don't
> get it....
It needs *air* to ignite...
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 02:19:00 -0700
From: "Johnny" <gamersvault@yucca.net>
Subject: GDW product
Where can I get a copy of the old GDW product "Atlas of the Imperium?"
- - Johnny
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:49:24 GMT
From: TML@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)
Subject: Re: Jump drives and damage.
eris@pcola.gulf.net writes:
>On 03/15/01 at 04:50 PM, "Rob Davenport" <rgd@ohio.voyager.net> said:
>>Well that just begs the question (for me at least) - can one run
>>into these Marie Celestials while in j-space IYTU?
>I've never done it, but it's such a wonderful possiblity...<sigh>...maybe it *is* possible, just so unlikely that it's never been reported to have happened.
Perhaps the other ship would have to physically intersect the jump
bubble of the PCs' ship. The crew would know nothing of its existence
until the hull of the derelict loomed up through the wall of their
jump bubble, about a metre from their own hull...
<crunch...>
Stephen
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3800
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3801
Date: | 3/16/01 5:17:42 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Friday, March 16 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3801
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Jump drives and damage.
Re: Sword Worlds Jump TL
Re: Sword Worlds Jump TL
Traveller at US GenCon 2001
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:57:50 +0000
From: Rob Myers <robm@tdv.com>
Subject: Re: Jump drives and damage.
Statistically it's impossible. There is no way you will randomly encounter something as small as a ghost-ship in jump-space.
That said, if jump-bubbles/fields attract each other, a route is very popular or the ship gets stuck in the interface between jump and normal space, it might be possible. The ghost ship could home in on your ship's beacon if its systems are still up, or there might be eddies in jump-space that pull ships in. It's all a bit particle-of-the-week, though.
- - Rob.
On Friday, March 16, 2001, at 11:49 AM, Stephen Tempest wrote:
> eris@pcola.gulf.net writes:
>
> >On 03/15/01 at 04:50 PM, "Rob Davenport" <rgd@ohio.voyager.net> said:
> >>Well that just begs the question (for me at least) - can one run
> >>into these Marie Celestials while in j-space IYTU?
>
> >I've never done it, but it's such a wonderful possiblity...<sigh>...maybe it *is*
> possible, just so unlikely that it's never been reported to have happened.
- --
JIEX - http://www.robmyers.org/jiex/
Journal de l'Institut des Etudes Xenologiques,
Edition en Anglais.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:05:02 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Sword Worlds Jump TL
Roseberry wrote:
> quick question: have the Sword Worlds always been able to maintain J-2
> technology? If they lost it, how long did it take for them to regain it?
> I'm assuming that they had and used J-2 tech on their journey from Terra
> to the Marches.
Didn't they make that journey with STL ships?
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 08:12:41 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Sword Worlds Jump TL
>>quick question: have the Sword Worlds always been able to maintain
>>J-2 technology?
>
>Didn't they make that journey with STL ships?
That was the Islands Cluster. The Sword Worlders hitched rides with Aslan
across the Great Rift.
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 13:15:45
From: "Michael McKeown" <mmckeown67@hotmail.com>
Subject: Traveller at US GenCon 2001
I'm planning on attending the US GenCon (my first) this year and I was
wondering if anyone planned on running a Traveller session there?
Mike
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Traveller-digest Thursday, March 15 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3799
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
This list
RE: GF - Boarding Actions?
Re: This list
RE: GF - Boarding Actions?
Re: This list
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3798
Something for the Penguin fanciers.
Jump drives and damage.
New to T4 seeking 'Scale' Clarification
Re: Jump drives and damage.
Re: Newbie Essays (The effects of gravitics on the surroundings)
RE: Jump drives and damage.
Re: GF - Boarding Actions?
Re: Jump drives and damage.
RE: Jump drives and damage.
RE: Jump drives and damage.
RE: Jump drives and damage.
RE: Jump drives and damage.
RE: Jump drives and damage.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 23:22:37 -0700
From: "Johnny" <gamersvault@yucca.net>
Subject: This list
Is this list for Classic Traveller too?
- - - Johnny
- ------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 08:52:09 +0200 (EET)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: RE: GF - Boarding Actions?
On Thu, 15 Mar 2001, Frank G. Pitt wrote:
[snip]
> > 4.) "War stories" about boarding actions that occurred during gaming
> > sessions to illustrate do's and don'ts. ("So there I was, ...")
> While taking Engineering, be very careful where you fire the PGMP.
Also, when rescuing hostages, PGMPs are not very useful.
Reminds me of a paraller universe (2300AD, probably Mission Arcturus was
the module name, can't remember. It was some 12 years ago...) where my
character, a French smuggler, had acquired a plasma gun and for some
reason had it on the mission. (We were about thirteen, so big guns
were compulsory...)
This could spoil the module, so beware :
We civilians had a military officer with us, who was to command us. We had
supposedly some knowledge of Kafers, that was probably why we were there.
The mission was to explore a space station taken by Kafers, who had taken
some people hostage.
The plasma gun did show its usefulness twice. First we bumped into some
Kafers in a blocked corridor. Of course, I shot them, but we were too
near, our officer got a shrapnel through the head and died instantly.
We bested most of the aliens and got finally to their last stand-off
point. They had five hostages in a command room. I saw the Kafers in the
middle of the room and blasted them with my gun. Result : three dead
Kafers and two dead hostages...
We were not very successful. I remember the GM stumbling when reading
chapters from the adventure to us. "The hostage says that, no wait, that
hostage is already dead..."
ObTrav:
Always remember the blast radius of your weapons, and try to be sure not
to stand in it...
- - --
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]
- ------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 08:53:36 +0200 (EET)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: Re: This list
On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Johnny wrote:
> Is this list for Classic Traveller too?
Yes, this is for all Traveller.
CT is probably more prevalent today than some time ago, because of the
reprints.
- - --
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]
- ------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 02:19:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Antaine <Mist.Warrior@theeclipse.net>
Subject: RE: GF - Boarding Actions?
- - --- "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
> wrote:
>> sessions to illustrate do's and don'ts. ("So there I was, ...")
>
>While taking Engineering, be very careful where you fire the PGMP.
Funny you should mention that....about 18 years ago, I played a retired
Marine..My first character from Mercenaries Generation(the first time our
group had access to book 4 at all). The group were free traders fighting off
a 400ton Pirate Corsair. "The best defence...yada yada yada", we decide to
mount an assualt on the assualting pirate vessel as they board our free
trader.
Upshot is, the Ref misreads the weapon chart in Merc's and decides that my
character with BD and FGMP-15 does 16D6^3 when it really meant 16D6 'note'
3. The consequences of this were that I had rolled 16D and 12 were 4+ when I
fired against an armoured bulkhead into the Corsair bridge, he worked it out
at ^3 and the game came to an abrupt end. We laughed for ages about that and
the ref never lived it down.....
Antaine.
~IMTU tc++ !tm !tn !t4 !tg tt- !to ru+ ge 3i c jt au+ ls pi+ ta he+ kk hi
as+ va+ dr+ ith-- vr- ne- so++ zh-- vi- da sy~
_____________________________________________________________
The Eclipse lit & art mag online!
http://theeclipse.net/
ISSN 1530-9371
an ARTISAN STUDIO production
http://artisanstudio.org/
- ------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 03:24:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Antaine <Mist.Warrior@theeclipse.net>
Subject: Re: This list
- - --- "Johnny" <gamersvault@yucca.net>
> wrote:
>Is this list for Classic Traveller too?
>
>- Johnny
You mean to say there is more than one? :oP
==
- - ---------------------------------------------
Antaine.
*Certavi et Vici*
~IMTU tc++ !tm !tn !t4 !tg tt- !to ru+ ge 3i c jt au+ ls pi+ ta he+ kk hi
as+ va+ dr+ ith-- vr- ne- so++ zh-- vi- da sy~
- - ---------------------------------------------
_____________________________________________________________
The Eclipse lit & art mag online!
http://theeclipse.net/
ISSN 1530-9371
an ARTISAN STUDIO production
http://artisanstudio.org/
- ------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 09:03:35 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3798
In a message dated 15-Mar-01 12:20:48 AM Central Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:
> I always thought that the "Drang Nach Osten" boardgame was originally
> produced by a European company, and then picked up by SPI and
republished
as
> "War in the East" ?
Far as I know, War in the East by SPI was a in-house design there. If there
were European boardgame companies in 1973, I am unaware of them. DNO was
GDW's first game, the flagship of the Europa Series of WWII boardgames.
Perhaps the name "Europa Series" made you think they were originally
produced
in Europe?
LKW
- ------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 10:18:33 -0600
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net>
Subject: Something for the Penguin fanciers.
Something I found during a search for "all your base" stuff.
http://www.eskimobob.com/episodes.cgi?episode=13
Eskimo Bob Episode 13: The Wrath of the Penguin
=======================================================
Objects on screen may be more hostile than they appear.
=======================================================
- ------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 10:13:20 -0600
From: "Donavan L" <dlambertus@dtgnet.com>
Subject: Jump drives and damage.
As a newbie to the list, I have my first dumb questions. Now, they've
probably been asked a few hundred times, but -
How long does it take to intiate a jump?
What happens if a jump drive loses power or is shut off after the the ship
has already jumped?
What happens if a ship's power plant is damaged after a jump is intiated?
Is there any way to stop a ship from jumping once the process is begun?
Thanks in advance. I will now retreat to cover and wait for the fruit
throwing to begin. :)
Donavan L.
- ------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 18:36:22 +0000
From: Graham Spearing <graham@tux.uklinux.net>
Subject: New to T4 seeking 'Scale' Clarification
Hello,
Lurked about for a while and now surfacing. Such erudite conversation on
the inner logic of the Traveller Universe, and I have to disturb you all
with a really stupid question... I hope someone will help me out - happy
for you to take this offline as you are all Trav guru types.
Anyway...
I've finally taken a more serious look at T4 to run my weekly trav game.
I know, Iknow abit late in the day! I understand that T5 will be similar
to T4 in terms of game mechanics? I currently use MT. I have the T4
errata. Trav rules=errata. I just don't understand what happens in the
following encounter:
Stanley has a 7.5mm Binary Propellant rifle. He decides to shoot a burst
at a TL7 Knorr Container Truck (6.5 displacement tonnes, 45.9 tonnes
mass, 1 armour rating)
Stanley hits.
Rifle damage is 5. This is reduced to 4 due to the huge lorry's armour.
I roll a 1 for location and get superstructure hit. What is the effect
of this? P.59 would indicate that I need to take this off the
superstructure until it reaches it's 'inoperative level'. What would
that be? Has Stanley just destroyed the 45 tonne truck with a blaze of
his rifle?
I just have the feeling I've missed something really obvious.
Sorry about that. Can anyone help?
Thanks
Graham
graham@tux.uklinux.net
- ------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 14:42:36 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Jump drives and damage.
On 03/15/01 at 10:13 AM, "Donavan L" <dlambertus@dtgnet.com> said:
>As a newbie to the list, I have my first dumb questions. Now,
>they've probably been asked a few hundred times, but -
Hello and welcome to the list. First, a few acronyms that you're
going to be seeing:
IMTU = In My Traveller Universe
OTU = Official Traveller Universe
CT = Classic Traveller
MT = Megatraveller
TNE = Traveller: The New Era
T4 = Mark Miller's Traveller
T5 = Mark Miller's *next* Traveller (currently under development)
GT = GURPS Traveller
LBB = Little Black Books of CT
I'm only going to use a couple, but you'll be seeing the others soon
enough. I'll let others tell you about the special terms, phrases,
and inside jokes. <g>
>How long does it take to intiate a jump?
IMTU, roughly 1 minute is needed to *initiate* a jump. Doing all
the things that it takes to get to that point takes about a half
hour.
During the half hour preceding jump, the capacitors have to be
charged, the course computed, and the jump grid tested.
Once the crew is ready to jump you actually initiate it. IMTU, this
is a four step process
(1) turning on the jump grid by the Engineer, "Grid on and hot!"
(2) starting the release of "injection mass" (most of the jump fuel)
by the Engineer, "Mass Released! Bubble forming!"
(3) locking the destination target by the Astrogator, "Target
sighted, verified and locked...Go for Jump!"
(4) and "hitting the button" by the Pilot or Captain, "Course
confirmed, bubble up. Insertion!"
...up to hitting the button the crew can back out if any of the
prior tasks didn't go right, but after hitting that button the ship
is gone, irretrievably committed.
>What happens if a jump drive loses power or is shut off after the
>the ship has already jumped?
IMTU, nothing. Once the ship has jumped the jump drive is turned
off. The "jump grid" built into the hull has to stay powered to
maintain the protective bubble, though, if you want to survive the
next week.
>What happens if a ship's power plant is damaged after a jump is
>intiated?
IMTU, that depends on how much power is lost. Completely, losing
the grid in Jump Space leads to premature bubble collapse and the
rapid destruction of the ship and death of all aboard her.
>Is there any way to stop a ship from jumping once the process is
>begun?
I think this is both OTU and IMTU...prior to actually jumping, yes,
but after you "hit the button" that actually inserts you into
jumpspace, no. Once you're *in*, your in for a week (more or less).
IMTU, it's a week because it takes that long for the interface
between jump and normal space (the edge of the jump bubble) to
stabilize. It's the unstable interface that is destructive, and you
need that bubble to keep the instability away from the ship's hull.
Anything that hits that interface before it stabilizes is going to
precipitate back into real space, but as a spray of particles.
Oh, and IMTU, the jump itself takes place in plank time, ie. as
close to 0 as you can get. The state the universe along a
straight line path from point A to point B at that instant is what
determines things like "jump shadows" and "mass interference."
After that instant, the real universe continues for a week and has
*no* effect on the ship, until after it emerges.
Imagine you jump to point B, an empty area of space *now*, but a
week later a chunk of matter has orbited into point B...nasty! One
of the jobs of the Astrogator is to insure that isn't going to
happen, and space is very, *very* big so it's not that hard a task
if you've got good charts, but accidents can happen.
So, what happens if you would be emerging inside a mass? IMTU, the
smaller mass is violently bounced to the 10 diameter of the other.
For in game purposes, IMTU, the ship takes internal *and* external
hits equal to the size number of the object with which it would have
intersected. This generally means a ship with many systems damaged,
disabled or destroyed, and in danger of crashing into the massive
object doing even more damage.
>Thanks in advance. I will now retreat to cover and wait for the
>fruit throwing to begin. :)
You're right these questions have been asked a few times before, and
they often *do* lead to vigorous discussions. <g>
Eris
- - --
- - -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- - -----------------------------------------------------------
- ------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 14:00:43 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Newbie Essays (The effects of gravitics on the surroundings)
Gregory Carl Kettler wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Bruce Johnson wrote:
>
>
>>> Yes, someone has. The RCEG designs the grav belt and grav bike this
way,
>>> and silence is mentioned as one of their biggest advantages.
>>
>> Are there design rules in there for this stuff or is it a swag design?
>
>
> Rules are included in the back of the book. They're an extension of
FF&S,
> of course.
>
Gonna have to look for that now...
- - --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
- ------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 13:08:55 -0800
From: William Lane <wlane@Asera.com>
Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage.
>As a newbie to the list, I have my first dumb questions. Now, they've
>probably been asked a few hundred times, but -
Only dumb question is the one that never gets asked. dont know about a few
hunderd times but yes they did discuss it a few months ago. Ill do my best
to pass the info to you that i know.
>How long does it take to intiate a jump?
Well they never covered this. IMTU it takes about 5 mins for the jump drives
to build up the power to initiate the jump. No need to worry about
Navigation because the crew would have worked that out on the manuvering out
to 100 Diameters.
>What happens if a jump drive loses power or is shut off after the the ship
>has already jumped?
there was a lot of talk about this. if i remember correctly there were a
couple of diffrent things being said. One thing tossed about was that the
ship would "Drop" out of jump space. Another was that the Lanthium grid
would drop and no longer protect the crew to the mind destroying properties
of Jump space.
IMTU Nothing would happen see the jump Drive Creates the "window" for the
Ship to "jump" Through to get to Jump space and then pushes the ship through
the "Window". Once on the Other side the Lanthium Grid is all the ship
needs. it protects the crew from the mind altering effects of Jump space.
The Lanthium Grid is Powered by the power plant which is a seperate power
source over the Jump Drive.
Now one thing should be mentioned. IMTU half of the required jump fuel is
used to "Jump" Into jump space. The rest of the required jump fuel is used
to "Jump" out of space. If the Jump Drive is damaged or Destroyed then it is
possable for the ship to become Trapped in jump space. when the ship runs
out of fuel for the power plant the Lanthium Grid drops and the crews minds
are destroyed. So Jump Drives are Fussed over pieces of equipment IMTU.
engineering sections will be secured areas even on a small 200 ton
frieghter. and yes before you ask there are ships floating around in jump
space with dead crews.
>What happens if a ship's power plant is damaged after a jump is intiated?
IMTU see above. However i saw that in Others TU's they powered the Lanthium
grid off the Jump Drive.
>Is there any way to stop a ship from jumping once the process is begun?
IMTU you just stop the process at some point prior to actually "jumping"
through the "Window". I allow a "core" type dump that will do like an
emergancy scram on the Jump drive. basically it just drops the entire jump
drive off line and causes the "jump window" to collapse. This of course is
an emergancy situation type thing. the Crew of the Mahina Tiare just
experianced one of these by default. they were trying to jump with a jump
drive who has not had an annual in 5 years. So the Drive hada hiccup and
the back up systems Did the Dump. sort of left them looking silly in front
of a scout who happened to be in the area.
>Thanks in advance. I will now retreat to cover and wait for the fruit
>throwing to begin. :)
We never throw fruit 8P to messy to clean up after.
- ------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 16:23:54 -0500
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net>
Subject: Re: GF - Boarding Actions?
Was written:
>Always remember the blast radius of your weapons, and try to be sure not
>to stand in it...
Also never stand behind a dwarf carrying a pazerfaust.
Dan
- ------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 16:45:18 -0500
From: "Rob Davenport" <rgd@ohio.voyager.net>
Subject: Re: Jump drives and damage.
On 15 Mar 2001, at 14:42, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
<snip of nice write-up of IHTU jump process>
> >Thanks in advance. I will now retreat to cover and wait for the
> >fruit throwing to begin. :)
>
> You're right these questions have been asked a few times before, and
> they often *do* lead to vigorous discussions. <g>
Or at least copious saving of excellent posts for later digestion... :)
Rob
- - ---
Rob Davenport 0301 C438875-B 713
- ------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 13:48:51 -0800
From: William Lane <wlane@Asera.com>
Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage.
Eris,
You and i handle this very simularly. would you mind if i throw a few
questions at you?
>Once the crew is ready to jump you actually initiate it. IMTU, this
>is a four step process
>(1) turning on the jump grid by the Engineer, "Grid on and hot!"
>(2) starting the release of "injection mass" (most of the jump fuel)
>by the Engineer, "Mass Released! Bubble forming!"
>(3) locking the destination target by the Astrogator, "Target
>sighted, verified and locked...Go for Jump!"
Are you saying the Navigator/Astrogator can not actually lay in the course
till the Jump Bubble forms? if so is he targeting his destination through
the Jump bubble? or am i miss reading this and he just confirming to the
captian/bridge crew that the course is plotted and locked into the
Navigation system?
(>4) and "hitting the button" by the Pilot or Captain, "Course
>confirmed, bubble up. Insertion!"
>...up to hitting the button the crew can back out if any of the
>prior tasks didn't go right, but after hitting that button the ship
>is gone, irretrievably committed.
IMTU, it's a week because it takes that long for the interface
between jump and normal space (the edge of the jump bubble) to
stabilize. It's the unstable interface that is destructive, and you
need that bubble to keep the instability away from the ship's hull.
Anything that hits that interface before it stabilizes is going to
precipitate back into real space, but as a spray of particles.
Interesting. So could a ship artificially Stabalize this and drop out of
jump early?
>Oh, and IMTU, the jump itself takes place in plank time, ie. as
>close to 0 as you can get. The state the universe along a
>straight line path from point A to point B at that instant is what
>determines things like "jump shadows" and "mass interference."
>After that instant, the real universe continues for a week and has
>*no* effect on the ship, until after it emerges.
Are you saying that for the crew no time passes of very little? and if so
would crews live what would seem to be much longer lives than Downporters?
also if that is the case would there be a much more abundance of "family"
type ships where the crew was or are an entire family?
>So, what happens if you would be emerging inside a mass? IMTU, the
>smaller mass is violently bounced to the 10 diameter of the other.
>For in game purposes, IMTU, the ship takes internal *and* external
>hits equal to the size number of the object with which it would have
>intersected. This generally means a ship with many systems damaged,
>disabled or destroyed, and in danger of crashing into the massive
>object doing even more damage.
Hmm well popping back out to 10 diameters is much nicer than popping up
inside of something and trying to occupy the same space as something else 8P
however big enough object and your talking a major ouch. What about say
popping into a system with a High Ship traffic? lets say you were going to
capital. now this i am sure is a planet witha very large ship traffic
coming and going. when your astrogator "targets" his destitnation is there
some sort of way the crew notifies the traffic control they are inbound so
that ships stay clear of the Jump in point?
these are things that popped into my head. and truth is i would be
interested in hear what you got to say for possable addition to MTU.
Hasta
>Thanks in advance. I will now retreat to cover and wait for the
>fruit throwing to begin. :)
You're right these questions have been asked a few times before, and
they often *do* lead to vigorous discussions. <g>
Eris
- - --
- - -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- - -----------------------------------------------------------
- ------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 16:50:27 -0500
From: "Rob Davenport" <rgd@ohio.voyager.net>
Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage.
On 15 Mar 2001, at 13:08, William Lane wrote:
> and yes before you ask there are ships floating around in jump
> space with dead crews.
Well that just begs the question (for me at least) - can one run
into these Marie Celestials while in j-space IYTU?
(I'd guess canonically the answer is no, but your description
gave me a mental picture of a crew, part way into the week long
jump when a ghostly derelict slowly moves into their 'vicinity',
and all the interesting things they might find aboard - and/or
have to fend off until they reenter n-space. Evocative maybe,
but not likely possible given canon descriptions.)
Rob
- - ---
Rob Davenport 0301 C438875-B 713
- ------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 14:16:04 -0800
From: William Lane <wlane@Asera.com>
Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage.
On 15 Mar 2001, at 13:08, William Lane wrote:
>> and yes before you ask there are ships floating around in jump
>> space with dead crews.
>Well that just begs the question (for me at least) - can one run
>into these Marie Celestials while in j-space IYTU?
Well as you stipulated canonically the answer is no. that said this is MTU
so here is the way some things work. The Imperium has never developed the
technology to actually see anything beyond the Jump bubble. now there is
higher tech that can allow this to be done. i have always pictured jump
space as another diminsion like that shown in Babylon 5. you have a set
coordinates you are flying to. any deviation in course and you could become
lost. Higher the tech better chance of being able to manuver about a bit and
still maintain your lock on your jump out coordinates. this has lead to some
interesting adventures for those who had the technology. I figure with as
much handwavium that is used at times in traveller i am allowed a little
creativity 8P
On a side note the loss of power to the power plant once happened to a crew
of players. 2 of the players we sujected to the mind altering effects of
jump Space. Ill say this the 2 players role played excellently and truely
created a Feel that they had become homicidal maniacs. they were bent on the
destruction of the ship and they succeeded in destroying the jump drive of
the ship prior to Jump out. so the Crew of the "Dawn Treader" (yes i know
but i did not name the ship 8P) became trapped in Jump space. unfortunatly
she is still there.
later on when players were playing as evarians they saw their old ship in a
very much ghost ship sort of way.
again i am not totally canonical. I like to allow somethings so i can have
fun and interesting adventures.
anyway hasta
Bill
- ------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 23:48:50 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage.
Rob Davenport wrote:
> Well that just begs the question (for me at least) - can one run
> into these Marie Celestrials while in j-space IYTU?
There's always "Fated Voyage" (Challenge 46) for the OTU position.
Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)
- ------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 17:56:11 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage.
On 03/15/01 at 01:48 PM, William Lane <wlane@Asera.com> said:
>You and i handle this very simularly. would you mind if i throw a
>few questions at you?
Not at all.
>>Once the crew is ready to jump you actually initiate it. IMTU, this
>>is a four step process
>>(1) turning on the jump grid by the Engineer, "Grid on and hot!"
>>(2) starting the release of "injection mass" (most of the jump fuel)
>>by the Engineer, "Mass Released! Bubble forming!"
>>(3) locking the destination target by the Astrogator, "Target
>>sighted, verified and locked...Go for Jump!"
>Are you saying the Navigator/Astrogator can not actually lay in the
>course till the Jump Bubble forms? if so is he targeting his
>destination through the Jump bubble? or am i miss reading this and
>he just confirming to the captian/bridge crew that the course is
>plotted and locked into the Navigation system?
The Astrogator (or Navigator if you're a CT purist <g>) can set up
the course prior to jump, but that just puts the ship on
approximately the right course. Almost anyone can do this, even
computer programs, but to get an exact course requires a sighting
right at the moment of jump.
See, I'm using the "jump fuel" for two things. Acting to inflate a
bubble of space around the ship (anchored by the jump grid, btw) is
one use. The other is to expand an artifically created wormhole
through which the ship will jump. The wormhole's exact shape can't
be predicted prior to its creating, and proper placement of the ship
inside is required to put the ship at its desired destination. The
Astrogator sights down the mouth of the wormhole that just before
the ship is inserted, locking the *exact* course needed during this
60 second window. A mistake here can lead to disasterous misjumps.
>(>4) and "hitting the button" by the Pilot or Captain, "Course
>>confirmed, bubble up. Insertion!"
>>...up to hitting the button the crew can back out if any of the
>>prior tasks didn't go right, but after hitting that button the ship
>>is gone, irretrievably committed.
>>IMTU, it's a week because it takes that long for the interface
>>between jump and normal space (the edge of the jump bubble) to
>>stabilize. It's the unstable interface that is destructive, and
>>you need that bubble to keep the instability away from the ship's
>>hull. Anything that hits that interface before it stabilizes is
>>going to precipitate back into real space, but as a spray of
>>particles.
>Interesting. So could a ship artificially Stabalize this and drop
>out of jump early?
In theory, yes. Because some jumps naturally end a few hours
earlier than others people have been trying to figure out how to
artifically cause this to happen ever since Jump Drives were
invented. However, in 5,000 years no one has figured out how to
successfully do it. There may be decades between new ideas, or new
generations of researchers, inspire renewed research, but people
still try, and sometimes die trying. Objectively, however, science
is no closer to an answer in 1110 (or 1200, or 0 <g>) than it ever
was.
Plot hook: Scientists charters the PC's ship for some jump space
research, bring devices aboard, the ship goes into jump and *then*
the PC's realize just what it is the scientists are going to
attempt. Results, to taste! <g>
>>Oh, and IMTU, the jump itself takes place in plank time, ie. as
>>close to 0 as you can get. The state of the universe along a
>>straight line path from point A to point B at that instant is what
>>determines things like "jump shadows" and "mass interference."
>>After that instant, the real universe continues for a week and has
>>*no* effect on the ship, until after it emerges.
>Are you saying that for the crew no time passes of very little? and
>if so would crews live what would seem to be much longer lives than
>Downporters? also if that is the case would there be a much more
>abundance of "family" type ships where the crew was or are an
>entire family?
The time inside jump space is still a week for the crew, and a week
(more or less) has passed in real space when they emerge too. It's
just that the *jump* took virtually no time. After the action of
the jump the crew was still stuck in Jump space for a week.
>>So, what happens if you would be emerging inside a mass? IMTU, the
>>smaller mass is violently bounced to the 10 diameter of the other.
>>For in game purposes, IMTU, the ship takes internal *and* external
>>hits equal to the size number of the object with which it would have
>>intersected. This generally means a ship with many systems damaged,
>>disabled or destroyed, and in danger of crashing into the massive
>>object doing even more damage.
>Hmm well popping back out to 10 diameters is much nicer than
>popping up inside of something and trying to occupy the same space
>as something else 8P however big enough object and your talking a
>major ouch. What about say popping into a system with a High Ship
>traffic? lets say you were going to capital. now this i am sure is
>a planet witha very large ship traffic coming and going. when your
>astrogator "targets" his destitnation is there some sort of way the
>crew notifies the traffic control they are inbound so that ships
>stay clear of the Jump in point?
Nope, you just have to count on space being really, really big and
consequently pretty empty. When jumping into busy systems, *I'd*
come in much further out, even further out than 100 dia. just to
make sure I had plenty of empty space. Actually, IMTU, I have ships
routinely emerging 12 to 24 hours away from mainworlds at 1 g. I
want them to have to spend enough time in real space travelling in
and out from jump points to make them *possible* targets for
unethical merchants (and let's not start the p debate again <g>).
Eris
- - --
- - -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- - -----------------------------------------------------------
- ------------------------------
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3802
Date: | 3/16/01 9:49:30 AM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Friday, March 16 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3802
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3801
RE: Jump drives and damage.
RE: Jump drives and damage.
Re: Traveller at US GenCon 2001
Bad habit to avoid, and jump exit IMTU.
Re: Jump Drives and Damage
Military Doctrine and practices
RE: Jump drives and damage
Re: Jump drives and damage
Re: Jump drives and damage.
RE: Jump drives and damage
RE: Jump drives and damage
Re: Jump drives and damage.
Re: Jump drives and damage.
RE: Jump drives and damage
RE: Jump drives and damage
Re: New to T4 seeking 'Scale' Clarification
RE: Jump drives and damage
RE: Jump drives and damage.
RE: Jump drives and damage
Re: Traveller at US GenCon 2001
RE: Jump drives and damage
RE: Jump drives and damage.
Re: They said megawat lasers he he heh he
Theta Borealis
Radiation and Newbie Essays
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 13:23:13
From: "Michael McKeown" <mmckeown67@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3801
I appologize to Digest Viewers...My message quoted the whole digest 3799..I
fixed my account to prevent that in the future...
Mike <---- never got a newbie Essay
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 21:36:58 +0800
From: Nattrass <wulfren@iinet.net.au>
Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage.
At 11:54 AM 16/03/01 -0800, you wrote:
>Any suggestion,
>
>While in jump space my group of players activated the manuever drive(a
>HeplaR thruster). Any thought on what I can do with this short of a total
>destruction result.
>
>Antony
Not to put any personal slant on this but I believe that a HEPlaR drive has
once (in game play, not history) been activated whilst the craft was in
jump space to make up for new variables to the crafts configuration
(increased mass/change of course due to j-space impact)
Given that chain of events its unlikely that a craft in your game universe
will emerge Philadelphia project style, but without the aid of a tech21
puter there may be an increased chance of arrival at an unknown
destination, or maybe even a time/galactic displacement?
It would be entertaining for the group to meet the spawning ground of Big
G, Provided that there was a way back of course ;)
*rant below*
It may be time to call upon a clearer definition of jump space, its
properties and physical limitations, based off discussions and what I've
read so far it would seem that some of the physical constants on Normal
Space don't apply to Jump Space.
Considering what the human race and others have done on the whole to define
the nature of the universe it seems a little bit odd that there was never a
description of what does and doesn't work, what applies and what doesn't
apply.... kind of a Jump Space for Dummies book, from the makers of
learning C for dummies and understanding stellar classifications and star
elemental composition for dummies (yet to be released).
Although I fear the answer to this may be "The characters know, not the
players".
This seems to me to be a dated response, human but nature seek to define
the limits of their existence,
To know the limits is to be able to learn how to cross them, and this is
true in gaming as anything other of what we do in life. Remember though
that searching for loopholes in rules isn't innovating, but merely the
letter of the law, not the spirit in which it was written.
We cannot truly define anything because one persons definition often does
mean something different to someone else therefore all we have to work with
is approximations.
hmm that is long enough for this night
anyone who has read up to here I would appreciate some constructive
criticism :)
hmm I think thats long enough
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:12:40 -0000
From: "Peter Scarrott" <peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage.
Well my first thought is that the exhaust would be confined to a small space
to the rear of the ship (inside the jump bubble). This would probably wipe
all external fittings and possibly cause some SERIOUS heat problems. Also
maybe the exhaust backs up the engines causing a major explosion in the
Engines. I would say that your manoeuvre drive shuts down (or explodes)
within seconds of ignition.
Loss of all manoeuvre drives at a minimum, serious breach in jump grid
possible. Maybe the total destruction result is due to the jump grid
damage, a lucky (i.e. PC) crew would be able to survive with only the
problems of a malfunctioning jump grid :)
J-Man said "If doing so was so deadly, I would think there would be so many
failsafe
built in that you'd have to tear the engine room apart to disable them."
Maybe not, in Real Life (TM) it is sometimes astounding (and scary) how many
systems have simple (safety lock) failsafe because the assumption is "No-one
would be that stupid". :)
- - - - - - - - - Start quote - - - - - - - - -
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:54:51 -0800
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage.
Any suggestion,
While in jump space my group of players activated the manoeuvre drive(a
HeplaR thrusters). Any thought on what I can do with this short of a total
destruction result.
Antony
- - - - - - - - - - end quote - - - - - - - - - - -
Peter
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk (Trav & AD&D)
peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
IMTU: tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Never appeal to a man's 'better nature.' He may not have one.
Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love (By Robert.Heinlan)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 09:14:33 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller at US GenCon 2001
- --part1_3e.8d6b544.27e379c9_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Traveller at US GenCon 2001
>I'm planning on attending the US GenCon (my first) this year and I was
>wondering if anyone planned on running a Traveller session there?
I believe Clay Bush is planning two Traveller events for GENCON this year
(using GURPs rules).
Bryan
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Traveller at US GenCon 2001
&gt;I'm planning on attending the US GenCon (my first) this year and I was
&gt;wondering if anyone planned on running a Traveller session there?
I believe Clay Bush is planning two Traveller events for GENCON this year
(using GURPs rules).
Bryan
- --part1_3e.8d6b544.27e379c9_boundary--
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:59:08 -0000
From: "Jeff Rowse" <jeffrowse@hotmail.com>
Subject: Bad habit to avoid, and jump exit IMTU.
To Johnny, Graham and any other new posters (and those who should know
better!)
One *very* annoying thing to do is to "Reply" to a TML Digest and forget to
delete the text you don't want... The Digest mode seems to collect roughly
25-30KB of posts before sending itself out, so we either get about 30K-worth
of 'good stuff', or a little bit of good stuff and a repeat of a previous
Digest...
IMTU, ships retain their vector and orientation when emerging from Jumpspace
- - so it's a *good* idea to check which way you are going to beheading when
you get to your destination...
Jeff.
"Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so."
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 07:10:40 -0800 (PST)
From: AuricTech Shipyards <aurictech@esweeet.com>
Subject: Re: Jump Drives and Damage
<<snip>>
<
>Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:54:51 -0800
>From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
>Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage.
>
>Any suggestion,
>
>While in jump space my group of players activated the manuever drive(a
>HeplaR thruster). Any thought on what I can do with this short of a total
>destruction result.
Well, here are three possibilities (from most to least generous):
1. Safety interlocks prevent M-drives from being activated while a ship is in jumpspace.
2. There is no interaction between jumpsace and the HEPlaR exhaust plume. The only thing that happens is fuel is expended.
3. As #2 above, except the HEPlaR exhaust plume has a chance (to be determined by the referee) to induce fusion in the hydrogen that forms the jump bubble. The catastrophic loss of the jump bubble will have deleterious effects on the ship and/or crew in question.
==
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/colverber/travler.html
_____________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 09:19:55 -0600
From: "Donavan L" <dlambertus@dtgnet.com>
Subject: Military Doctrine and practices
Thanks to all of you for your responses on my "Jump Drives and damage"
questions - they greatly expanded my view of jump drives. Now, on to my
next question.
In interstellar navies, what general specifications does each major race
have (if any)? Going through my well-worn copy of LBB #9 Fighting Ships, it
seems that a lot of Imperial escorts and some cruisers & dreadnaughts run in
the range of Jump-4 and 6-G acceleration. The one reference I found on pg
15 ("Performance characteristics for this class make it capable of staying
with most Imperial fleets (J-4 and 6-G)") makes me think this is "standard"
for frontline combat ships.
Also, references in GT: Rim of Fire discuss the Solomani use of missile
boats.
What I'm looking for is info on general performance, crew comfort, preferred
tactics/weapons, and armor (no need to get too specific, just generalities
will do fine).
Is this addressed anywhere? Unfortunately, my book selection is fairly
limited at the moment. I'd be most interested in the Imperium, Solomani
Confederation, Aslan, and Zhodani navies.
Oh, and as I understand it, it is the general practice of the list to assign
newbies an essay assignment? I'd be happy to take a swing at one.
Thanks again!
Donavan L.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 10:26:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage
Donavan L writes:
>As a newbie to the list, I have my first dumb questions. Now, they've
>probably been asked a few hundred times, but -
If they've been asked that often they cannot be that dumb!
(can they?) :)
>How long does it take to intiate a jump?
IMTU: 10 minutes. It typically takes 30 - 60 minutes to make
the appropriate calculation, then 10 minutes to power up the
jump drive and pop out.
>What happens if a jump drive loses power or is shut off after the the ship
>has already jumped?
IMTU: The jump drive is shut off after the ship has initiated jump,
and the ship 'coasts' the rest of the way.
>What happens if a ship's power plant is damaged after a jump is intiated?
IMTU: The crew and passengers are in danger of suffocating if
battery power runs out, but there is no effect on jump.
>Is there any way to stop a ship from jumping once the process is begun?
IMTU: Sure. Until the last moment, shutting down the jump drive
will prevent jumping. Damaging the jump drive, or trying to shut
it down as it jumps, may result in nasty missjump/destruction.
>Thanks in advance. I will now retreat to cover and wait for the fruit
>throwing to begin. :)
Where did I put those Hefrifruit...
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 10:29:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: Re: Jump drives and damage
Johnny writes:
>Ok, let me hazard a question about jumping. It would seem to me that to jump
>to a certain system you would have to be pointed in the direction of that
>system when the jump bubble is created. But I can also see the argument that
>jump space isn't normal space so you could be pointed in any direction
>(relative to the system you are jumping to) and jump to any system within
>your ships capabilities. How do you Gentle Readers see this IYTU?
IMTU: 'Jumpspace' is perpendicular to the three dimesions of 'normal'
space. Jumping involves turning the ship so that it 'faces' a direction
that cannot be described in 'normal' space. The ship can turn from
any direction, but the jump calculations depend on the direction in
which the ship faces as it jumps.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:32:09 GMT
From: TML@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)
Subject: Re: Jump drives and damage.
Rob Myers <robm@tdv.com> writes:
>Statistically it's impossible.
Huh? Don't you mean, statistically it's "very, very, very, *very*
unlikely"? The sort of thing that might happen *once* in 10,000 years
of star travel by countless millions of sophonts from all major races?
And, by a strange coincidence, the one time it does happen, there are
a group of PCs involved in the encounter...
Stephen
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 10:35:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage
Antony Farrell writes:
>Any suggestion,
>While in jump space my group of players activated the manuever drive(a
>HeplaR thruster). Any thought on what I can do with this short of a total
>destruction result.
IMTU: This does not result in anything catastophic immediately.
It does increase error in arrival location (I roll for accuracy, based
on Nav and Pilot skills, among other things). In extreme cases it
may result in missjump.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 10:35:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage
Jimmy Simpson writes:
>>While in jump space my group of players activated the manuever drive(a
>>HeplaR thruster). Any thought on what I can do with this short of a total
>>destruction result.
>If you subscribe to the jump bubble theory, it would possibly ignite the
>hydrogen forming the jump bubble.
Um, oxygen?
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:45:53 +0000
From: Rob Myers <robm@tdv.com>
Subject: Re: Jump drives and damage.
I think you've just pointed out why it's a good thing I'm not in the insurance business. :-)
- - Rob.
On Friday, March 16, 2001, at 03:32 PM, Stephen Tempest wrote:
> Rob Myers <robm@tdv.com> writes:
>
> >Statistically it's impossible.
>
> Huh? Don't you mean, statistically it's "very, very, very, *very*
> unlikely"? The sort of thing that might happen *once* in 10,000 years
> of star travel by countless millions of sophonts from all major races?
> And, by a strange coincidence, the one time it does happen, there are
> a group of PCs involved in the encounter...
- --
JIEX - http://www.robmyers.org/jiex/
Journal de l'Institut des Etudes Xenologiques,
Edition en Anglais.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 06:50:34 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net>
Subject: Re: Jump drives and damage.
Rob Myers <robm@tdv.com> wrote
> Statistically it's impossible. There is no way you will randomly encounter something as small as a ghost-ship in jump-space.
No but canon establishes that the Ancients had an artifact,
the Othem, that could do so. Challenge had an adventure
in which the characters ship, as part of an apparent
misjump, developed an instability that let you walk to
an 'adjoining' ship that had misjumped 300 years before.
> That said, if jump-bubbles/fields attract each other, a route is very popular or the ship gets stuck in the interface between jump and normal space, it
> might be possible. The ghost ship could home in on your ship's beacon if its systems are still up, or there might be eddies in jump-space that pull ships
> in. It's all a bit particle-of-the-week, though.
What about gravity?
How long does it take for objects that mass about as much as
PC's starships will to pull each other together in the absence
of other forces? (I could do the math, but it's too much like work).
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:49:09 +0000
From: Rob Myers <robm@tdv.com>
Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage
Thanks, but I've breathed.
Hydrogen features large in jump mechanics. The "bubble", assuming it's not electromagnetic or some other field, would by hydrogen rather than something we need to breathe. Jumps take space from pretty-near interstellar vacuum.
- - Rob.
On Friday, March 16, 2001, at 02:35 PM, Ian Ferguson wrote:
> Jimmy Simpson writes:
> >>While in jump space my group of players activated the manuever drive(a
> >>HeplaR thruster). Any thought on what I can do with this short of a total
> >>destruction result.
> >If you subscribe to the jump bubble theory, it would possibly ignite the
> >hydrogen forming the jump bubble.
>
> Um, oxygen?
- --
JIEX - http://www.robmyers.org/jiex/
Journal de l'Institut des Etudes Xenologiques,
Edition en Anglais.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:56:14 +0000
From: Rob Myers <robm@tdv.com>
Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage
Ah, Ok. Sorry, missed the point completely. :-)
Hydrogen will explode quite happily without oxygen IIRC, it just won't burn.
- - Rob.
On Friday, March 16, 2001, at 02:35 PM, Ian Ferguson wrote:
> Jimmy Simpson writes:
> >If you subscribe to the jump bubble theory, it would possibly ignite the
> >hydrogen forming the jump bubble.
>
> Um, oxygen?
- --
JIEX - http://www.robmyers.org/jiex/
Journal de l'Institut des Etudes Xenologiques,
Edition en Anglais.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 17:05:58 +0100
From: "Tage Borg" <tage@hem.passagen.se>
Subject: Re: New to T4 seeking 'Scale' Clarification
Graham wrote:
[...]
> Rifle damage is 5. This is reduced to 4 due to the huge lorry's armour.
> I roll a 1 for location and get superstructure hit. What is the effect
> of this? P.59 would indicate that I need to take this off the
> superstructure until it reaches it's 'inoperative level'. What would
> that be? Has Stanley just destroyed the 45 tonne truck with a blaze of
> his rifle?
>
> I just have the feeling I've missed something really obvious.
>
> Sorry about that. Can anyone help?
We hear you (at least I do). Unfortunately:
1) I'm not familiar enough with T4 to answer your question.
2) The T4 rules are full of bugs and you might just have found one.
/Tage
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 18:20:59 +0200 (EET)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage
On Fri, 16 Mar 2001, Rob Myers wrote:
> Hydrogen will explode quite happily without oxygen IIRC, it just won't burn.
Well, as much as I know from explosions, they are just matter burning
quite fast, so they need oxygen. (Many, or probably most, explosives
contain enough oxygen so they work without oxygen in the vicinity, for
example in space)
Pure hydrogen will not explode, it will need some oxygen.
Of course, fusion reactions could occur in pure hydrogen, but they need
quite a lot of pressure and temperature. A lot more than I might imagine
between the ship and jump bubble...
- --
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 08:36:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage.
Well, IMHO if the jump bubble is created by ejecting
a cloud of hydrogen around the ship and having it be
the "conductor" of the jump field, then changing the
shape of the bubble by dumping hot hydrogen exhaust
into it will also change the direction and distance of
the jump. Give them a misjump! (Only change the
direction of the jump and keep the same distance
jumped, making sure that there is a world to land on
when they exit, if you are feeling nice. Give them a
standard misjump if you want to let them know that
they were really foolish.)
IMTU, the jump fuel is also used as a heat sink for
the jump drive because there is no other way to get
rid of waste heat in jump space. It is just "stored"
by allowing it to heat up the jump fuel and then
expelled upon exiting jump. This is nice in your
situation in that it allows you to cause a slow
increase in the temperature of the ship (particularly
the crew) while they are in jump from they superheated
exhaust of the HEPlaR drive surrounding the ship. Let
the tension of the players mount while they slowly
cook and system failures occur from overheated
electronics during the jump, soon enough the players
will be counting the hours before they exit into
normal space.
Oh yeah, don't forget to add in the misjump while you
are broiling them.
- --- Antony Farrell <Skaran@bigpond.com> wrote:
> Any suggestion,
>
> While in jump space my group of players activated
> the manuever drive(a
> HeplaR thruster). Any thought on what I can do with
> this short of a total
> destruction result.
>
> Antony
>
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 08:38:16 -0800 (PST)
From: John Fox <jfox@verity.com>
Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage
Hello:
EXSCUSE ME!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Hydrogen will explode quite happily without oxygen IIRC, it just won't burn.
>
> - Rob.
Lets try this again and remember stuff like chemistry, physics and other
sciences. There are several ways to create explosians. Most involve the
violant ripping apart of chemical bonds and then the recombination of those
chemical bonds. IF you have a bubble of pure hydrogen (ie H2) it has to
intereact with something (recombine) to an explosian. That is why you can have a
room filled with gasoline and drop a match and if there is no oxygen there will
be no fire or explosian. Open the door and let some air in then try lighting
the match. (Let me get far away first). The second way to have an explosian is
for the chemicals to be all in a mixture (ie like ANFO, ammonium nitrate fuel
oil) explosives. The chemical rearrange to a lower energy state by realeasing
energy from rearranging. In this case you do not need air or oxygen. The last
way is to add alot of energy very fast and is a confined space. You can fuse
everything like a H-bomb but the amount of energy needed initially is an A-bomb.
You can fuse the atoms of H2 into He and get energy released but it will have to
be in confined space under controlled conditions. You can form a plasma but that
will interact with the ships hull, vaporize a few thousands of an inch and then
cool down. Oh, was that your lanthanium grid that just shorted out! So sorry
So, unless the Helpar drive put out O or O2 the only thing you will get is hot
H2 and He.
John W. Fox
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 16:45 +0000 (GMT)
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
Subject: Re: Traveller at US GenCon 2001
In-Reply-To: <3e.8d6b544.27e379c9@aol.com>
Greetings dear hearts.
I don't know about the US Gen Con, but Gen Con UK 2001 will most certainly
have TRAVELLER... from BITS and from me.
Perhaps even from the 2 members of this list who have succombed to my
blandishments and offered to put some of their material into scenario
format for me :-)
How about some of you coming along?
See http://www.genconuk.com for details.
Hugs and kisses,
Mexal.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 17:06:08 +0000
From: Rob Myers <robm@tdv.com>
Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage
I sit corrected. :-)
- - Rob.
On Friday, March 16, 2001, at 04:38 PM, John Fox wrote:
> Hello:
>
> EXSCUSE ME!!!!!!!!!!
- --
JIEX - http://www.robmyers.org/jiex/
Journal de l'Institut des Etudes Xenologiques,
Edition en Anglais.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 09:12:14 -0800
From: "Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>
Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage.
Jimmy Simpson <jman31415@home.com> writes:
> >While in jump space my group of players activated the manuever drive(a
> >HeplaR thruster). Any thought on what I can do with this short of a total
> >destruction result.
> >
> >Antony
>
>If you subscribe to the jump bubble theory, it would possibly ignite the
>hydrogen forming the jump bubble.
Only if you provided an oxidizer. Hydrogen (and pretty much everything
else) needs one to burn.
- Mark C.
mark f. cook * shoestring graphics & printing * markc@ssgfx.com
7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330 * http://www.ssgfx.com
Phone: 541-745-5709 Fax: 541-745-5818
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 09:40:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: They said megawat lasers he he heh he
Free Trader writes:
> --- Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> wrote:
>
> > The methane might ignite once it comes out of the
> > hole, but it might do that
> > anyway.
>
> Blow out would be a serious problem because you
> wouldn't be using drilling mud with a laser. Down
> hole pressures can get awfully high.
Not sure what drilling mud is, but you almost certainly are using some sort of
pressure cap.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 09:44:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>
Subject: Theta Borealis
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 09:32:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>
Subject: Radiation and Newbie Essays
Well, I researched this subject and found that the
rules I'd set up just couldn't compare with those
created by Robert O'Connor at:
http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/features/rules/tmed/med5.html
He has done an exhaustive examination of radiation
effects and his rules are easily integrated and very
user friendly. In short, his radioactive kung-fu is
better than mine, so I'll be using his rules in the
future. Two sites that were very informative to me
while researching are the Office of Human Radiation
Experiments at:
http://tis.eh.doe.gov/ohre/
and the Radiation Effects Research Foundation at:
http://www.rerf.or.jp/eigo/experhp/rerfhome.htm
I also found that the game system Jovian Chronicles
from Dream Pod 9 has got some very good rules covering
radiation that are easily adapted to Traveller.
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3802
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3803
Date: | 3/16/01 12:25:38 PM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Friday, March 16 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3803
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Question on Ship pressurization.
Theta Borealis, again
Re: Newbie Essays (The effects of gravitics on the surroundings)
Re: Jump Bubble
Re: They said megawat lasers he he heh he
Re: Military Doctrine and practices
Re: Traveller at US GenCon 2001
Re: Something for the Penguin fanciers.
Re: Sword Worlds Jump TL
RE: Theta Borealis, again
Gohst stories (was Re: Military Doctrine and practices)
Blank sector map
Re: Jump Bubble
Re: Blank sector map
Re: Blank sector map
Re: New to T4 seeking 'Scale' Clarification
Re: Blank sector map
Re: Question on Ship pressurization.
Re: Military Doctrine and practices
Re: They said megawat lasers he he heh he
Re: Blank sector map
Re: Sword World jump TL
RE: Jump drives and damage.
RE: Jump drives and damage
Re: Newbie Essays (The effects of gravitics on the surroundings)
RE: Jump drives and damage.
Re: Question on Ship pressurization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 09:46:34 -0800
From: William Lane <wlane@Asera.com>
Subject: Question on Ship pressurization.
Ok this is a funky question and probably not to terribly important but I'm
going to throw it out.
First a little back ground.
I been doing a little research on the early Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo
programs. well I found out an interesting thing. Seems that the ships were
only pressurized to 5 psi pure Oxy.
Now I have always treated my space ships of being Pressurized to sea level
pressure of what ever planet the crew came from. however has anyone or does
anyone actually do something similar to what the afore mentioned NASA
missions did? as in pressurize the ships to like 5 psi pure Oxy?
Hasta
Bill
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 09:48:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>
Subject: Theta Borealis, again
Sorry for the first blank sending. My cat jumped up
on the keyboard out of a need to demonstrate both his
love for me and his superiority over my efforts to
ignore him.
Anyways. Is there any canon information on the Theta
Borealis sector besides its name? I'm also looking for
any non-canon information out there as well.
Oh, yeah, and how do you get involved in the TML Landgrab?
__________________________________________________
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Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 10:53:58 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Newbie Essays (The effects of gravitics on the surroundings)
Charles R Hensley wrote:
> <shameless plug>
> http://home1.gte.net/res04u7k/Traveller/hrules/elect_prop.html
> </shameless plug>
>
> Charles H
Cool! Can a ducted fan _really_ propel someting into the transonic range?
2nd silly question...what would happen if you drove a conventional
turbofan engine to normal operating revs with an electric motor instead
of using fuel? I know you would get less thrust, but how much? I'm
thinking in terms of a dual-regime engine...electric driven near the
ground, at low speeds, and when you need to be stealthy, and regular
turbofan mode at higher altitudes, higher speeds, and where you don't
care what the neigbors think of the noise?
I suspect it would entail a fair bit of variable geometry inside the
engine, but not much else, given low-mass, high power electric motors.
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 09:49:04 -0800
From: "Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>
Subject: Re: Jump Bubble
John Lambert <hovtej@hotmail.com> writes:
>There have been several references to jump bubbles in the discussions of
>"Jump Drives and Damage". I came across this picture that comes close to the
>way I envision the jump bubble appearing as a ship exits jump space.
>http://www.kettering.edu/~drussell/Demos/doppler/mach1.html
>A little imagination is needed: replace the blue sky with a star background
>and the white cloud with the blue glow of the exit flash.
Is this more like what you had in mind, John?
http://www.ssgfx.com/traveller/misc_graphics/jump_exit.gif
- Mark C.
mark f. cook * shoestring graphics & printing * markc@ssgfx.com
7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330 * http://www.ssgfx.com
Phone: 541-745-5709 Fax: 541-745-5818
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:01:40 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: They said megawat lasers he he heh he
Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Free Trader writes:
>
>> Blow out would be a serious problem because you
>> wouldn't be using drilling mud with a laser. Down
>> hole pressures can get awfully high.
>
>
> Not sure what drilling mud is, but you almost certainly are using some sort of
> pressure cap.
Drilling mud is a clay/water/other stuff mixture that's pumped down into
a well as they drill it, behind the drill head. This maintains a
pressure cap on top of the drill to avoid blowouts when you hit gas or oil.
I don't know how they plan on doing this, perhaps they're enivisioning a
'laser head' lowered down the borehole on a long cable, though power
transmission losses could get kinda nasty as the cable approaches the
kilometer lengths that many of these projects are envisioned...
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 10:03:47 -0800
From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Military Doctrine and practices
At 09:19 AM 03/16/01 -0600, you wrote:
>What I'm looking for is info on general performance, crew comfort, preferred
>tactics/weapons, and armor (no need to get too specific, just generalities
>will do fine).
The line waiting for "GT: Imperial Navy" forms to the left. :)
>Oh, and as I understand it, it is the general practice of the list to assign
>newbies an essay assignment? I'd be happy to take a swing at one.
Consider and discuss:
Recently, we've seen an upswing in the number of shows/books/movies on the
paranormal. What sort of ghost stories do they tell in the Third Imperium?
What urban legends make the rounds time and again?
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 10:07:37 -0800
From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller at US GenCon 2001
At 04:45 PM 03/16/01 +0000, you wrote:
>I don't know about the US Gen Con, but Gen Con UK 2001 will most certainly
>have TRAVELLER... from BITS and from me.
>
>Perhaps even from the 2 members of this list who have succombed to my
>blandishments and offered to put some of their material into scenario
>format for me :-)
Good enough time as any to let my Brtish friends that I won't be making it
across the pond yet again.
This year, I start saving *now*
Of course, y'all are coming to the 2002 WorldCon in San Jose, yes???
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 10:15:54 -0800
From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Something for the Penguin fanciers.
At 10:18 AM 03/15/01 -0600, you wrote:
>Something I found during a search for "all your base" stuff.
>
> http://www.eskimobob.com/episodes.cgi?episode=13
>
>Eskimo Bob Episode 13: The Wrath of the Penguin
That was.. beautiful! *sniff*
- --
Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is that I am now a
perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague here is rapidly running out of
limbs!" - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 12:29:41 -0600
From: Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
Subject: Re: Sword Worlds Jump TL
>Jens Rydholm and >>"Paul Drye" wrote
>Didn't they make that journey with STL ships?
>>That was the Islands Cluster. The Sword Worlders >>hitched rides with
Aslan across the Great Rift.
The materials I have are unclear on this subject; the colonists "show
up" on Gram in -399, and other spots there after, but not how. From
Beltstrike we have a Sword Worlds squadron arriving in the Bowman Belt
in -145, so I'm thinking they had to at least have J-1 for that. Do you
think that its resonable for them to have J-2 by 70 and J-3 by sometime
after the 3FFW?
Dan Roseberry (plop101) Hot Springs, Arkansas USA
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 12:54:14 -0600
From: "Dave McKenna" <Dave.McKenna@MurrayState.edu>
Subject: RE: Theta Borealis, again
> Sorry for the first blank sending. My cat jumped up
> on the keyboard out of a need to demonstrate both his
> love for me and his superiority over my efforts to
> ignore him.
You sure it wasn't out of a need to post his own views on the "Dogs &
Humans" thread?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:06:07 -0600
From: Chris Olson <chris@pdaguy.com>
Subject: Gohst stories (was Re: Military Doctrine and practices)
Well there's the one about the ship which came out of jump on schedule
and on course. Everything appeared normal. They refused to answer any
hail, nor were any course changes made. When boarded by the local
system defense forces, the ship was found to be uninhabited. Not
abandonded, food was still out in the lounge, drinks were in the bar.
Nothing appears older than two days. No clues whatsoever in the logs or
the staterooms. WHen they left, they apparently all left together and
just stopped what they were doing and just did it.
Spookiest thing about this? It's not an Urban Legend that it happened
(well documented as a matter of fact). Characters can find the system,
the date, and the names of those that boarded her, interviews with
family who were left behind, etc. The ghost story bits are people
putting forth various explanations for the missing people.
Everything from abandoning ship (in jump space?) to alien abduction (in
jump space?) to mass suicide (without any traces or suicide notes?).
Oh, btw, the ships name was 'the Marie Terrene'.
Chris Olson
PS. This is stolen from various sources, one of which I think is this
list... oops !
>
> Recently, we've seen an upswing in the number of shows/books/movies on the
> paranormal. What sort of ghost stories do they tell in the Third Imperium?
> What urban legends make the rounds time and again?
> --
>
> Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
>
> "Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
> sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:05:13 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: Blank sector map
Anyone have a blank sector map grid in a vector format? Corel Draw would be
fantastic, EPS or something else would do.
(I tried Anthony Jackson's postscript map from maps.grandsurvey.com on the
theory that Corel can import .ps files. Ended up with an object on the page
that displayed the actual Postscript code for the map. Doh!)
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 19:07:13
From: "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Jump Bubble
That is exactly what I was thinking, Mark! Another great graphic!
John
>From: "Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>
>
>John Lambert <hovtej@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>>There have been several references to jump bubbles in the discussions of
>>"Jump Drives and Damage". I came across this picture that comes close to
>>the
>>way I envision the jump bubble appearing as a ship exits jump space.
>>http://www.kettering.edu/~drussell/Demos/doppler/mach1.html
>>A little imagination is needed: replace the blue sky with a star
>>background
>>and the white cloud with the blue glow of the exit flash.
>
>Is this more like what you had in mind, John?
>
>http://www.ssgfx.com/traveller/misc_graphics/jump_exit.gif
>
> - Mark C.
>
> mark f. cook * shoestring graphics & printing *
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:20:08 -0500
From: hal@buffnet.net
Subject: Re: Blank sector map
At 02:05 PM 03/16/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>Anyone have a blank sector map grid in a vector format? Corel Draw would be
>fantastic, EPS or something else would do.
>
>(I tried Anthony Jackson's postscript map from maps.grandsurvey.com on the
>theory that Corel can import .ps files. Ended up with an object on the page
>that displayed the actual Postscript code for the map. Doh!)
>
>Cheers,
>Paul Drye
I don't know if a CC (Campaign Cartographer) map can be read by your
program or not. There exists a blank sector map done in the old style...
Hal
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:18:59 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Blank sector map
>I don't know if a CC (Campaign Cartographer) map can be read by your
>program or not. There exists a blank sector map done in the old style...
It's not listed under the set of import filters in Corel Draw. Unless
someone has written a custom CC->Corel filter that's out there too....
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 19:32:11 +0000
From: Graham Spearing <graham@tux.uklinux.net>
Subject: Re: New to T4 seeking 'Scale' Clarification
Tage Borg wrote:
[hand guns blowing up huge trucks in T4]
> > I just have the feeling I've missed something really obvious.
> >
> > Sorry about that. Can anyone help?
>
> We hear you (at least I do). Unfortunately:
> 1) I'm not familiar enough with T4 to answer your question.
> 2) The T4 rules are full of bugs and you might just have found one.
>
Thanks for the response Tage, I'll seek help elsewhere.
Best
Graham
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:29:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Blank sector map
Paul Drye writes:
> Anyone have a blank sector map grid in a vector format? Corel Draw would be
> fantastic, EPS or something else would do.
Hm...I ran my .ps through ps2epsi
http://maps.grandsurvey.com/secmap.epsi should be encapsulated post-script interchange format, which Corel might tolerate
http://maps.grandsurvey.com/secmap.pdf is (obviously) pdf
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 12:33:54 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Question on Ship pressurization.
William Lane wrote:
> Ok this is a funky question and probably not to terribly important but I'm
> going to throw it out.
>
> First a little back ground.
>
> I been doing a little research on the early Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo
> programs. well I found out an interesting thing. Seems that the ships were
> only pressurized to 5 psi pure Oxy.
>
> Now I have always treated my space ships of being Pressurized to sea level
> pressure of what ever planet the crew came from. however has anyone or does
> anyone actually do something similar to what the afore mentioned NASA
> missions did? as in pressurize the ships to like 5 psi pure Oxy?
Given the maturity of the tech in Traveller, there's no real need to do that. This was done in the early space program to save weight, both of air (and the accompanying weight of tanks, regulators, etc) as well as the weight costs of pressurizing the cabin to higher pressures.
Canon states that individual staterooms can be adjusted to different
gravity/air pressure, and in special ones, air composition. Common areas
are probably set to some reasonably happy medium.
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 19:37:06 GMT
From: TML@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)
Subject: Re: Military Doctrine and practices
"Donavan L" <dlambertus@dtgnet.com> writes:
>In interstellar navies, what general specifications does each major race
>have (if any)?
According to 5th Frontier War, the majority of Zhodani squadrons as of
1107 have jump-3 capability. They have some J-2 and J-4 ships, plus a
handful of streamlined J-5 cruisers presumably designed for
long-distance anti-shipping and raiding missions.
The Sword Worlds fleet in the same game is roughly evenly split
between J-2 and J-3 ships. The Vargr are all J-3.
>Also, references in GT: Rim of Fire discuss the Solomani use of missile
>boats.
That could be a reference to the Imperium boardgame, covering events
3,000 years before. According to the game, Vilani (1st Imperium)
warships used lots of missiles, while the Terrans concentrated on
shorter-ranged beam weapons. Realising this put them at a
disadvantage, the Terrans later developed missile boats - small, cheap
ships that packed in as many missiles as they could carry.
Stephen
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 13:42:53 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: They said megawat lasers he he heh he
On 03/16/01 at 11:01 AM, Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> said:
>Anthony Jackson wrote:
>> Free Trader writes:
>>
>>> Blow out would be a serious problem because you
>>> wouldn't be using drilling mud with a laser. Down
>>> hole pressures can get awfully high.
>> Not sure what drilling mud is, but you almost certainly are using some sort of
>> pressure cap.
>Drilling mud is a clay/water/other stuff mixture that's pumped down
>into a well as they drill it, behind the drill head. This
>maintains a pressure cap on top of the drill to avoid blowouts
>when you hit gas or oil.
It also acts as a sort of lubricate for the drill head...I think. Geologists extract samples of the mud on a regular basis for analysis and logging. I don't know exactly what they are looking for, but I know they do it because a friend of mine had a job as a "mud engineer" many, many years ago. <g>
>I don't know how they plan on doing this, perhaps they're
>enivisioning a 'laser head' lowered down the borehole on a long
>cable, though power transmission losses could get kinda nasty as
>the cable approaches the kilometer lengths that many of these
>projects are envisioned...
I've been wondering about this too. I'm not too sure this is going to be a practical technology. Maybe, if they're cheaper/faster, lasers would be used for first part of the drill, then replaced with a conventional drill head.
Another application might be horizontal boring for tunnels. Put several lasers on a drill head and pulse them in sequence. That should crack/pulverise rock which could then be vacuumed out through the drill head, or maybe transported out along a turning screw. The screw wouldn't be cutting, just moving chunks backwards away from the tunnel face.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:46:44 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Blank sector map
>Hm...I ran my .ps through ps2epsi http://maps.grandsurvey.com/secmap.epsi
>should be encapsulated post-
>script interchange format, which Corel might tolerate
And indeed it does. Groovy, thanks.
After asking the TML for every conceivable Traveller map form over the last
few months, I think I'm going to bang together a quick web page that will
make what I've got more generally accessible. Details to follow.
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 20:47:33 +0100
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Sword World jump TL
Jens Rydholm writes:
>Roseberry wrote:
>>quick question: have the Sword Worlds always been able to maintain J-2
>>technology? If they lost it, how long did it take for them to regain it?
>>I'm assuming that they had and used J-2 tech on their journey from Terra
>>to the Marches.
>
>Didn't they make that journey with STL ships?
And Paul Drye replied:
>>Didn't they make that journey with STL ships?
>
>That was the Islands Cluster. The Sword Worlders hitched rides with Aslan
>across the Great Rift.
Not quite. They used their own ships (a troop transport, a cruiser, and half a
dozen escorts). They were helped across the Hierate by the Wahtoi, an Aslan clan
they had imposed a debt upon. When they settled Gram, they didn't actually lose
any technological knowledge, but they didn't have the industry to build new
ships. It took them about a century to work themselves up to the point where
they could build a few small jump-1 ships. Towards the end of the Sacnoth
Dominate (-104), both Gram and Sacnoth had a TL of 12 and were able to build
jump-3 ships. The War of the First Rebellion ended in the destruction of all
jump industry (and most other industry), but again they didn't lose the
KNOWLEDGE and Gram was back to building jump ships in -11, Sacnoth in -8.
The period from 0 to 1100 hasn't been documented yet (though I'm working on it
;-). No doubt the industrial capacity has fluctuated over the years (Gram and
Sacnoth does a kilkenny act around 100, for example (leaving room for the Triple
Dominion worlds to take over)).
IIRC Sacnoth has a TL of 12 in 1105, so they at least can build jump-3 ships,
and I myself would guess that several of the TL 11 worlds have TL12 space tech.
Hans
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 09:05:36 -0500
From: "Rob Davenport" <rgd@ohio.voyager.net>
Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage.
Thanks for the reference, Peter. Don't have that issue, but
will try to dig it up sometime. Nice to know there's an OTU
position, though.
Rob
On 15 Mar 01, at 23:48, Trevor, Peter wrote:
> Rob Davenport wrote:
> > Well that just begs the question (for me at least) - can one run
> > into these Marie Celestrials while in j-space IYTU?
>
> There's always "Fated Voyage" (Challenge 46) for the OTU position.
>
> Regards PLST
> (aka Stalin)
>
>
>
- --
Rob Davenport -- rgd at ohio dot voyager dot net
'C program run. C program crash. C programmer quit.'
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:56:36 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage
At 10:26 AM -0400 3/16/01, Ian Ferguson wrote:
> >What happens if a jump drive loses power or is shut off after the the ship
> >has already jumped?
>
> IMTU: The jump drive is shut off after the ship has initiated jump,
> and the ship 'coasts' the rest of the way.
IMTU, the jump field theoretically needs no power once set up, but
you end up needing a small amount of power due to non-ideal losses.
That gives a GM something to hit players with.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net. My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 13:55:58 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Newbie Essays (The effects of gravitics on the surroundings)
On 03/16/01 at 10:53 AM, Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> said:
>Cool! Can a ducted fan _really_ propel someting into the transonic
>range?
I don't see how.
>2nd silly question...what would happen if you drove a conventional
>turbofan engine to normal operating revs with an electric motor
>instead of using fuel?
Can't help you there Bruce.
In a Traveller game, I'd be more apt to use two sets of engines, ducted fans for lift and velocity up to a few hundred kph, then plasma focus (ie HEPlaR) used only at very high altitude for the high speed kick to orbit ....or CG followed by Stutterwarp...or TPlates...depending on the universe and TL. <bg>
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 12:00:51 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage.
At 11:54 AM -0800 3/16/01, Antony Farrell wrote:
>Any suggestion,
>
>While in jump space my group of players activated the manuever drive(a
>HeplaR thruster). Any thought on what I can do with this short of a total
>destruction result.
>
>Antony
Assuming all that mass and energy can't help but disrupt the jump
field, and rulling out destruction, I would say that causes a misjump,
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net. My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 20:23:41
From: "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Question on Ship pressurization.
I agree with Bruce that at starfaring Traveller technology levels ships
would not resort to the extreme (and dangerous)cabin air measures used in
the early space program. But even at higher tech levels there are still good
reasons not to pressurize cabins to full sea level values, i.e., more severe
explosive decompressions and higher risks of decompression sickness (if
something does go wrong). Most people can function very well in the reduced
atmospheric pressures at 5,000 ft.(Denver) on Earth up to around 10,000 ft
(many observatories and some towns) with minimal adaptation especially if
they do not have to do any heavy physical labor. Crew personnel should be
adapted and able to do heavier work. The most common problem at these
altitudes is "mountain sickness": headaches and trouble sleeping. Enriching
the atmosphere with additional oxygen on an individual basis can eliminate
that problem.
Military crews who run a higher risk of explosive decompression should be
able to function at even more reduced cabin pressures with the aid of drugs
or special diets, plus trainning and conditioning. Comments, Bruce?
John
>From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
>
>William Lane wrote:
>
>>Ok this is a funky question and probably not to terribly important but I'm
>>going to throw it out.
>>
>>First a little back ground.
>>
>>I been doing a little research on the early Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo
>>programs. well I found out an interesting thing. Seems that the ships were
>>only pressurized to 5 psi pure Oxy.
>>
>>Now I have always treated my space ships of being Pressurized to sea level
>>pressure of what ever planet the crew came from. however has anyone or
>>does
>>anyone actually do something similar to what the afore mentioned NASA
>>missions did? as in pressurize the ships to like 5 psi pure Oxy?
>
>Given the maturity of the tech in Traveller, there's no real need to do
>that. This was done in the early space program to save weight, both of air
>(and the accompanying weight of tanks, regulators, etc) as well as the
>weight costs of pressurizing the cabin to higher pressures.
>
>Canon states that individual staterooms can be adjusted to different
>gravity/air pressure, and in special ones, air composition. Common areas
>are probably set to some reasonably happy medium.
>
>--
>Bruce Johnson
>University of Arizona
>College of Pharmacy
>Information Technology Group
>
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3803
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3804
Date: | 3/16/01 3:11:44 PM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Friday, March 16 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3804
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: atlas of the Imperium
Re: Jump drives and damage
RE: Jump Bubble
Re: Jump drive and damage
Re: Am I getting through
Re: New to T4 seeking 'Scale' Clarification
Spacemen's Legends
RE: Spacemen's Legends
RE: Jump drives and damage
Re: Jump drive and damage
Spacer Stories
Re: They said megawat lasers he he heh he
[Website Review] Beowulf Down
Re: They said megawat lasers he he heh he
RE: Jump Bubble
Re: Theta Borealis
Re: Question on Ship pressurization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 13:38:47 -0700
From: "Johnny" <gamersvault@yucca.net>
Subject: Re: atlas of the Imperium
Yep, I checked eBay first. I was kinda looking to see if I could get one
cheaper somewhere else, or a good copy of it.
- - Johnny
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael McKeown" <mmckeown67@hotmail.com>
To: <gamersvault@yucca.net>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 1:18 PM
Subject: atlas of the Imperium
> try ebay. It shows up every so often. But be prepared to pay for it :) I
saw
> one go for 90 dollars a few weeks ago!
> Mike
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 07:52:11 +1100
From: Ian or Katts <ikjw@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: Jump drives and damage
>From: Nattrass <wulfren@iinet.net.au>
>Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage.
>
<stuff snipped>
>*rant below*
>
>It may be time to call upon a clearer definition of jump space, its
>properties and physical limitations, based off discussions and what I've
>read so far it would seem that some of the physical constants on Normal
>Space don't apply to Jump Space.
>Considering what the human race and others have done on the whole to define
>the nature of the universe it seems a little bit odd that there was never a
>description of what does and doesn't work, what applies and what doesn't
>apply.... kind of a Jump Space for Dummies book, from the makers of
>learning C for dummies and understanding stellar classifications and star
>elemental composition for dummies (yet to be released).
>Although I fear the answer to this may be "The characters know, not the
>players".
Me, I follow the 'Jump Drives are monkey copies of Ancient Artifacts" theory.
According to this, easy-to-copy jump drives were carefully seeded in the home systems of the various
"Major Races", and this provided them with an excellent basis for them to go out to the stars.
(certain paranoid Europeans on this list have hypothesised that use of jump drive annoys the heck out
of the Bad Guys from the Core, and that Granfather seeded the jump drives so that the mass of j-drive
signals would overwhelm his jump-drive signals, allowing him to hide out the vengence of TBGftC in a
pocket universe).
Now, a lack of any sort of comprehensive (let alone comprehensible) is going to have a chilling effect
on technology in the Imperium - if you cant explain the technology that allows the Imperium to exist,
then you arent going to have a lot of hubris about your technological capability, which will lead to less
emphasis on high-technology investment.
Ian Whitchurch
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 10:07:51 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: Jump Bubble
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of John Lambert
> Sent: Friday, 16 March 2001 05:56
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Jump Bubble
>
>
> There have been several references to jump bubbles in the discussions of
> "Jump Drives and Damage". I came across this picture that comes
> close to the
> way I envision the jump bubble appearing as a ship exits jump space.
> http://www.kettering.edu/~drussell/Demos/doppler/mach1.html
> A little imagination is needed: replace the blue sky with a star
> background and the white cloud with the blue glow of the exit flash.
>
> In any case, a neat picture!
Yeah, I agree.
Good enough for a desktop I feel, there's a higher res version here :
http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/images/hornetsb.jpg
Along with lots of other cool pictures of planes and ships!
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 08:05:47 +1100
From: Ian or Katts <ikjw@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: Jump drive and damage
>From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
>Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage
>
>At 10:26 AM -0400 3/16/01, Ian Ferguson wrote:
>IMTU, the jump field theoretically needs no power once set up, but
>you end up needing a small amount of power due to non-ideal losses.
>That gives a GM something to hit players with.
This really affects the economics of space travel, as the optimum way to do a commercial starship is to
use a small power plant and a honking big battery pack to run the jump drive until you are in jump.
This will substantially cut the cost of commercial starships.
It wont affect military starships much, as they tend to have a 'power curve' that is higher in normal
space than jumpspace, which is the reverse of most commercial shipping.
Ian Whitchurch
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:10:44 -0500
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Am I getting through
> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 22:25:53 -0500
> From: knightsky@juno.com
> Subject: Re: Am I getting through
>
<snip>
>
> Five by five.
Thanks. Reminds me of a story I read about an eager young destroyer captain
in WW2. It seems every day he would send out the how are you reading me
message to the other ships in his squadron (TF, group or whatever) This
greatly annoyed the squadron CO to the point that eventually he replied we
read you 2 by 2, to often and to loud. I don't quite remember the source for
that one it might be in one of the D. Gallery books.
If you're running a large scale naval campaign this is the kind of thing you
can expect from subordinates.
David Shayne
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 16:15:03 -0500
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: New to T4 seeking 'Scale' Clarification
> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 17:05:58 +0100
> From: "Tage Borg" <tage@hem.passagen.se>
> Subject: Re: New to T4 seeking 'Scale' Clarification
>
> Graham wrote:
> [...]
> > Rifle damage is 5. This is reduced to 4 due to the huge lorry's armour.
> > I roll a 1 for location and get superstructure hit. What is the effect
> > of this? P.59 would indicate that I need to take this off the
> > superstructure until it reaches it's 'inoperative level'. What would
> > that be? Has Stanley just destroyed the 45 tonne truck with a blaze of
> > his rifle?
> >
> > I just have the feeling I've missed something really obvious.
> >
> > Sorry about that. Can anyone help?
>
> We hear you (at least I do). Unfortunately:
> 1) I'm not familiar enough with T4 to answer your question.
> 2) The T4 rules are full of bugs and you might just have found one.
>
> /Tage
From the T4 rulebook page 59
"If a vehicle or robot takes enough damage to superstructure
to reach an inoperative level, it may not perform any activity for
the rest of the combat encounter."
Of course in the rules it doesn't seem to adress the issue
of what level of damage would constitute an inoperative level
of damage. I can't seem to find this information in CSC or
Starships either. (Kinda reminds me why I never got a game
together with T4, I kept waiting for the book with all the
missing rules in it to come out.)
Now if you have access to the MT referee's manual it will
give compatible numbers for vehicle damage locations.
The numbers for Hull damage points seem to be the numbers
we need for superstructure.
Inoperative: Volume (in m^3) of craft hull/15
Destroyed: Volume (in m^3) of craft hull/6
(Round fractions up.)
Note that those figures are based on 13.5 m^3 per Dton.
T4 uses 14 m^3 per Dton so you might want to adjust those
divisors to Dtons/1.111 and Dtons/.444.
I don't seem to have displacement figures for the Huge lorry
in question. Lets guess at 5 dtons which gives us damage
ratings of 5 inoperative and 12 destroyed. So the first hit
won't kill the truck but another to the same location will
put it out of business temporarily and the third such
round will to the job in a more permanent way.
I would probably rule that for the shots to be considered as
hitting the same damage location you would have to take
pains to put the shot in the same place.
All of which leaves open the question of just what has
happened to the truck. I would probably rule that the bullet
slammed into the stearing column or knocked off the ignition
system wires or some other repair required thing rather than
just blowing it up. Unless I were running an A-team type game
in which case of course it blows up (but miraculously nobody is
seriously injured and the bad guys are still demoralized enough
to surrender.)
If my players sudenly take a liking to destroying trucks
with rifles I would have to institute an aditional roll to decide if
a superstructure hit actually hit something that would result
in the destruction of the truck or just blew through the door
letting water in or some such.
Hope this helps
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 21:33:41
From: "Gary Miles" <garyglennmiles@hotmail.com>
Subject: Spacemen's Legends
Penguin Boy quacked:
>Consider and discuss:
>
>Recently, we've seen an upswing in the number of shows/books/movies on the
>paranormal. What sort of ghost stories do they tell in the Third Imperium?
> What urban legends make the rounds time and again?
>- --
>
>Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
Well, one of the most popular legends told (and sung) in starport bars is
that of Dawson's Christian (slightly tweaked, to get rid of references to
shields).
Email for details if you don't know about Dawson's Christian (or the bawdy
version, Dawson's Pagan).
Gary Miles
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 13:46:58 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: Spacemen's Legends
What about Dawson's Penguin? <duck, run, cover>
I think the next ship I show a name on will have to be named that :)
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Gary Miles
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 9:34 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Spacemen's Legends
>
>
> Penguin Boy quacked:
>
> >Consider and discuss:
> >
> >Recently, we've seen an upswing in the number of
> shows/books/movies on the
> >paranormal. What sort of ghost stories do they tell in the
> Third Imperium?
> > What urban legends make the rounds time and again?
> >- --
> >
> >Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
> >http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
>
> Well, one of the most popular legends told (and sung) in starport bars is
> that of Dawson's Christian (slightly tweaked, to get rid of references to
> shields).
>
> Email for details if you don't know about Dawson's Christian (or
> the bawdy
> version, Dawson's Pagan).
>
> Gary Miles
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 11:01:05 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage
Ian or Katts wrote :
> Me, I follow the 'Jump Drives are monkey copies of Ancient
> Artifacts" theory.
>
> According to this, easy-to-copy jump drives were carefully seeded
> in the home systems of the various
> "Major Races", and this provided them with an excellent basis for
> them to go out to the stars.
Even if they did "seed" like this, the fact that Haumaniti has improved from
the horribly fuel inefficient jump drives they originally had, and that many
races have independantly improved the capability from Jump1 up to Jump 3,
and beyond via their own research, implies that they have a damn good
understanding of it "now".
Original Solomani Jump 1drives used twice as much fuel as Vilani Jump 1 at
the time they met, and they used their jump drive for many years as a an
"in_system" jump capability before the Americans first went interstellar to
Barnard's Star.
<snip>
> Now, a lack of any sort of comprehensive (let alone
> comprehensible) is going to have a chilling effect
> on technology in the Imperium - if you cant explain the
> technology that allows the Imperium to exist,
> then you arent going to have a lot of hubris about your
> technological capability, which will lead to less
> emphasis on high-technology investment.
I disagree that it is _possible_ for an intelliggent race to use a
technology for that long without understanding it. The Ancients as portrayed
in the books are not _that_ much more advanced than Humaniti. To justify
this, I would have to assume that the Ancients didn't develop jump drive
either. and had it hadn't down to them by some race that was _really _
advanced.
Also, nothing_ the Ancients have done in Traveller canon is completely
impossible within _current_ theory, and I don't believe that future
scientists would forget what we know now.
Jump for instance, can be approximated by a specific use of advanced
gravitic lens technology creating a controlled Visser wormhole. All
theoretically possible, not something we can do now, but we understand _how_
to do it.
I really feel that theory is always going to be ahead of capability.
IMTU, I have scientists who understand _how _ to create Jump 500 drives, but
they just can't build them yet, because construction techniques still don't
allow them to build battleship size devices to nanometer tolerances.
There are others who understand how to provide personal jump capability to
individuals, but humans keep dropping skin flakes and breathing so the
calculations for personal jump units are too hard for even large computers
let alone one you can fit into a jumpsuit, and Hortelez et Cie won't fund my
research anymore after the last two deep space labs they gave me were
destroyed during testing.
Of course there's also the problem of wearable hypserspatial radiation
suits, and the mental effects of spending a week in a featurelss grey fog
with nothing to eat or drink except suit stuff, and.... but they haven't
got a liver one back yet, so they don't know about those.
To conme back to the problem, it is merely that several divergent
descriptions of how Jump works have been given in canon, and at least two of
them have serious physical flaws we can pick holes in with current science,
so the authors have given up trying to "explain" it, as none of them (AFAIK)
are astrophysicists.
At the same time the sort of arbitrary limits on jump technlogy specified in
the rules are very hard to justify physically, because the real world is not
discrete at those levels.
Because of this, yes, if the Imperium existedactuallly , and the limits
imposed on Jump techniology were _exactly_ the same as specified in the
Traveller _rules_ I would agree, the technology would be impossible to
understand using our currrent theories.
The problem though, is that someone in a "Traveller universe" would
therefore be able to deduce that they were living in a "Traveller rules"
universe, because those rules are far simpler than the rules for, for
instance, our universe.
So with a few thousand years of reasearch the Imperium would surely have
deduced the entire "Traveller Rule Set" that controlled their universe, and
Naval ship designers would begin optimizing their designs acording to "the
ship design rules" and military tactics would evelve around precisely
determined statistical predictions of outcome based on analysis of "the
combat rules"...etc, etc.
Although the sudden change in rules from MegatTraveller to TNE, is surely
what is really responsible for the collapse of Imperial civilization, not
the Virus as such.
<grin>
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 13:58:19 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Jump drive and damage
At 8:05 AM +1100 3/17/01, Ian or Katts wrote:
> >From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
> >Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage
> >
> >At 10:26 AM -0400 3/16/01, Ian Ferguson wrote:
>
> >IMTU, the jump field theoretically needs no power once set up, but
> >you end up needing a small amount of power due to non-ideal losses.
> >That gives a GM something to hit players with.
>
>This really affects the economics of space travel, as the optimum
>way to do a commercial starship is to
>use a small power plant and a honking big battery pack to run the
>jump drive until you are in jump.
>
>This will substantially cut the cost of commercial starships.
>
>It wont affect military starships much, as they tend to have a
>'power curve' that is higher in normal
>space than jumpspace, which is the reverse of most commercial shipping.
I'm not sure I follow. It is a slight variation on the standard "the
jump fuel is all used at the start of the jump" view.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net. My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 16:24:45 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Spacer Stories
"Can't happen you say?" the grizzled old Spacer rasps out as he
carefully sets his beersi bottle back down on the bar, "What do you
know boy'o! It happened to a fellow I know."
"Olaf Cusa was navigator on the old _Coming Our Way_ out of New
Georgia." the old man says looking you in the eye, "His ship was in
jump in route to Ruie and he was sitting Dead Watch alone on the
bridge when he, by Gnu, started getting a ping on his neutrino
sensors."
"Old Olaf was like you, my young friend, he didn't believe ships
could meet up in jump, but there was that neutrino sensor pinging to
beat the band. So, he took a look. It was the signature of a
fusion engine, sure enough!" the old spacer looks around at the
small group of young spacers gathered around him, "400MW and with a
CN of 34.99."
"A Ling C61?" asks a young woman leaning against the bar rail.
"The same!" the old spacer smiles at the young woman and nods, "So,
Olaf turns on the passives and does a sweep. Now, you *know* you
don't get nothing on passives in jump, just dead screen, right?"
There are nods all around, then the old man continues, "But not this
time. This time there's a ghost image off the port quarter. The
ghost image of a ship, it was fuzzy at first, but it got clearer and
clearer. Olaf tracked that image for an hour, he told me. It got
as close as 5 kiloklicks. It was a Far Trader, and you know at that
range a good sensor op can read the name off a ship's nose, and he
said he did! He tried the radio, but there 'twert nothing but
static, but that ghostly far trader kept floating out there. First
drifting closer then away."
"He said, it slowly faded away until there was nothing there anymore
'cept a dead screen." the old man says, "He got the whole damn thing
on disk, too!"
Lifting the almost beersi bottle back to his lips he finishes the
last bit and says, "So, don't tell *me* it don't ever happen!"
"Ha!" a young man snorts in derision, "Old spacer tale. If that
happened, and he had it on disk then where's the disk. old man?
Tell me that!"
Turning to his young inquisitor old Olaf smiles and says, "If I told
you that, young man, neither of us live out the week."
Then tapping his bottle with is finger Olaf says, "You remind me of
a spacer I ran into on Gram, interesting story..."
"...but all this talking has dried out my whistle and..." he cocks
his head and tips his bottle over, "...and I'm out of wet?"
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:54:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Free Trader <freetrader2300@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: They said megawat lasers he he heh he
- --- eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
> It also acts as a sort of lubricate for the drill
> head...I think. Geologists extract samples of the
> mud on a regular basis for analysis and logging. I
> don't know exactly what they are looking for, but I
> know they do it because a friend of mine had a job
> as a "mud engineer" many, many years ago. <g>
Yup. Although there are other ways to log down hole
(i.e., SP, Gamma Ray, Resistivity, etc.) being able to
examine cuttings first hand is still one of the best
ways to tell if you're getting close to the pay zone
(or if you've missed it). If a laser simply
burns/melts its way down, then you'll need some sort
of downhole instrumentation to accurately log the
boring. Maybe by the time of the Third Imperium,
surface geophysical instruments (i.e., portable micro
strato-densometers?) have advanced so far beyond early
21st century 3-D seismic capabilities that "primitive"
downhole logging methods are totally unnecessary.
=====
- - "Free Trader" <freetrader2300@yahoo.com>
Visit Free Trader's Traveller Pages:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dunes/8426/traveller/
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 22:56:17 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: [Website Review] Beowulf Down
The Traveller Website Review
- ----------------------------
Just when you thought it was safe to go back to the web ...
Beowulf Down
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw/
This is Hyphen's web site. First off, a warning to those who are
upset by such things: this site uses *frames*. 30% of the left
is taken up by a menu, and the rest holds the actual content.
So what's Hyphen's site all about? Well the theme is the port at
Tavonni/Vilis. There are four main sections. The homepage
("Welcome to Tavonni") and What's New page ("Just Detected") make
up the first section ("Tavonni Customs & Extrality"). "Office of
the Port Director" contains an email link, non-Traveller game
links, and descriptions of Hyphen's RL existance (his RL
alter-ego goes by the name "David Jaques-Watson"). "Off-World
Links" has 16 game company links (from "Chuck's Gaming Links" to
"Valkyrie Homepage") and numerous resource links (classified into
"How to write good HTML", "Web Authoring", "Image Sources", and
"Examples of Great Web Sites"). This leaves "The Tavonni System"
section as the meat of this site.
The first subsection, "Tavonni Departure Lounge", contains a vast
number of Traveller links with separate pages depending on sort
order. "Sources" lists official sites only. "Port Director"
lists a large number of sites (in author's surname order). "Port
Rating" lists the same large number of sites (in order of
Hyphen's preference). "Port Title" again lists the same sites
(this time in site title order). A page called "Milieu" is
planned. Sites listed here have their title, author, a rating
from 0 to 5 stars, milieu, and a brief description. ... Though I
did notice that my own predominantly CT/MT site is listed as TNE
milieu (probably for the 2 TNE items on it). Also, some of these
links are broken (time for a spring clean, Hyphen?).
The second subsection, "Tavonni Repair Bays", is a nice juicy
resource page: talk on problems in canon, a couple of
spreadsheets, some house rules (including MT character generation
for "Police" and "MoJ"), some FAQs on photocopying and copyright,
and a bunch of other useful stuff. However, it was a bit
surprising to see a "new" tag on something dated "9 Mar 1998"
(last updated on 29 Oct 2000) ... I suspect it (and others)
aren't aged off.
Subsection three, "Tavonni Specialities" provides links to 3
"local companies". These local companies provide equipement
(battledress and a med kit), robots and stuff, and starships
(which appear to be High Guard and include some hand drawn deck
plans).
The fourth subsection, "Tavonni World Views", contains just a
link to the Tavonni RICE paper ... which is extensive enough to
be a TML Landgrab entry in its own right. Given that this
subsection is called "-Views" (plural) I'd expect some other
articles to be included.
The "Delphi Project" subsection is a secondary website. It
describes itself as "the development of the Delphi Sector by
members of JTAS". A few interesting ideas, but still rather thin
on content ... so far.
The "Library Data" subsection is also a secondary website. An
alternate frameset provides an extensive library data section,
all nicely indexed.
"Traveller & Other Tag Lines" is the seventh, and last,
subsection. And just as it says on the box this is a collection
of email tag lines (some very funny). My favourite is still "For
old fans: <-*-o-*-o-*-o-*-o-*--- Tribble and onion kebab".
In summary: The varied subsections of "The Tavonni System" mark
this site as one of the stars of Traveller's web presence ... a
mix of resources *and* a good jumping-off point to the rest of
Traveller on the net.
Improvements: Apart from the always redundant "add more content"
advice there are 3 areas that need tightening up. First, the
main menu frame seems a bit too large at 30%, I would say menu
frames should be a *max* of 25% and ideally should be 20% (this
may require some experimentation with the graphics. Second, the
'cheap' speckled star background used on some of the pages
doesn't work very well (especially for the Library Data) ...
there are better speckled star backgrounds out there on the net.
Third, be careful not to get sloppy (something isn't "new!" after
4.5 months on the net, my site isn't primarily a TNE site, and
some of the links are dead).
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:03:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: They said megawat lasers he he heh he
Free Trader writes:
ways to tell if you're getting close to the pay zone
> (or if you've missed it). If a laser simply
> burns/melts its way down, then you'll need some sort
> of downhole instrumentation to accurately log the
> boring. Maybe by the time of the Third Imperium,
Well, determining the chemical composition of the rock will be trivial, just
put a spectroscope in the drill head, you'll have enough gas to analyse fairly
easily.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:05:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Free Trader <freetrader2300@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Jump Bubble
I seem to recall that according to the old Traveller
"Starship Operators Manual" (I think DGP may have
published it under license from GDW), a ship coming
out of jump would appear first as a glowing blue grid
(the energized "Lanthanum <spelling?> hull grid") that
would slowly fill in and fade as the ship re-entered
normal space. No mention of actually seeing a "bubble".
=====
- - "Free Trader" <freetrader2300@yahoo.com>
Visit Free Trader's Traveller Pages:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dunes/8426/traveller/
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 18:08:27 -0500
From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: Theta Borealis
Jeff Hopper wrote:
>Is there any canon information on the Theta
>Borealis sector besides its name? I'm also looking for
>any non-canon information out there as well.
Theta Borealis sector was originally assigned to Group One, one of the early Traveller licensees. They never published a sector map/book, but I assume all of their adventures (of which there are a half-dozen or so) were set there, and may have some incidental Library Data and such. CAVEAT: I don't actually own any Group One products, since AFAIK they are 1) no longer considered Canon, and 2) not particularly good.
>Oh, yeah, and how do you get involved in the TML Landgrab?
Find an unclaimed system and grab it! It's that simple!
Trent
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 16:08:53 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Question on Ship pressurization.
John Lambert wrote:
> I agree with Bruce that at starfaring Traveller technology levels ships
> would not resort to the extreme (and dangerous)cabin air measures used
> in the early space program. But even at higher tech levels there are
> still good reasons not to pressurize cabins to full sea level values,
> i.e., more severe explosive decompressions and higher risks of
> decompression sickness (if something does go wrong).
Actually the difference in decompression between a full atmosphere and that at 5000 foot is minimal. Aircraft are maintaiuned at a lower than sea-level pressure because that reduces stressing on the skin of the craft, helping to avoid messy things like disintegration at 20,000 feet, like the early Comets did. (note, I know that the problems with the Comets were due to other problems in design, but the root cause was the continued pressurization of the cabin)
Traveller starships are not constructed with a thin, highly stressed aluminium skin. Aircraft are bad cognitive prototypes of starships, submarines are much better.
Increasing the O2 partial pressure does nasty things to promote flammability.
> Military crews who run a higher risk of explosive decompression should
> be able to function at even more reduced cabin pressures with the aid of
> drugs or special diets, plus trainning and conditioning. Comments, Bruce?
>
I would think that military craft are routinely evacuated prior to combat, with the crew working in Vacc suits. No air, no problem.
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3804
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3805
Date: | 3/17/01 5:55:59 AM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Saturday, March 17 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3805
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: They said megawat lasers he he heh he
RE: Theta Borealis
RE: Jump drives and damage.
RE: Jump Bubble
RE: Theta Borealis, again
RE: Jump Bubble
Re: Question about the Imperial military
Re: Question on Ship pressurization.
Re: Theta Borealis
Re: Gohst stories (was Re: Military Doctrine and practices)
Re: GDW product
Re: Jump Drive and Damage
Re: Jump Bubble
Re: Theta Borealis
Re: They said megawat lasers he he heh he
RE: Jump drives and damage
Re: Jump drives and damage.
Re: They said megawat lasers he he heh he
RE: Jump drives and damage.
Re: Newbie Essays (The effects of gravitics on the surroundings)
Possible Business Contact...
Re: Am I getting through
Re: GDW product
Re: Military doctrine and practices
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:16:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Free Trader <freetrader2300@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: They said megawat lasers he he heh he
- --- Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> wrote:
> Well, determining the chemical composition of the
> rock will be trivial, just
> put a spectroscope in the drill head, you'll have
> enough gas to analyse fairly
> easily.
Won't tell you porosity - kinda important if you're
looking for a hydrocarbon producing formation.
=====
- - "Free Trader" <freetrader2300@yahoo.com>
Visit Free Trader's Traveller Pages:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dunes/8426/traveller/
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 23:42:20 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Theta Borealis
Trent wrote:
> Jeff Hopper wrote:
> > Is there any canon information on the Theta
> > Borealis sector besides its name? I'm also looking for
> > any non-canon information out there as well.
> Theta Borealis sector was originally assigned to Group One, one
> of the early Traveller licensees. They never published a sector
> map/book, but I assume all of their adventures (of which there
> are a half-dozen or so) were set there, and may have some
> incidental Library Data and such. CAVEAT: I don't actually own
> any Group One products, since AFAIK they are 1) no longer
> considered Canon, and 2) not particularly good.
Actually, they *did* produce a sector map/book. Printed on
8.5x11" sized pages ... 2 pages of library data, 1 page of ship
encounters, 9 pages of UPP stats ... plus a 17x22" sector map.
Group One produced 14 other products (adventures). Print quality
was poor, and (in general) the content wasn't very good either.
As with most other 3rd party products of the time, all of Group
One's products have been de-canonised. (However, the Zerp in
these products are related to the Zhurphani in my TML Landgrab of
Yori ... maybe we can re-canonise them ;-) .)
Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 00:06:51 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage.
Rob Davenport wrote:
> On 15 Mar 01, at 23:48, Trevor, Peter wrote:
> > Rob Davenport wrote:
> > > Well that just begs the question (for me at least) - can one run
> > > into these Marie Celestrials while in j-space IYTU?
> >
> > There's always "Fated Voyage" (Challenge 46) for the OTU position.
>
> Thanks for the reference, Peter. Don't have that issue, but
> will try to dig it up sometime. Nice to know there's an OTU
> position, though.
Also check out "Lost Treasure Ships of the Abyss Rift" (Challenge
44).
Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 16:21:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Free Trader <freetrader2300@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Jump Bubble
Here's the actual description from "MegaTraveller
Starship Operator's Manual, Vol. 1" by DGP.
From Page 12:
"The lanthanum network spread throughout the hull
turns blue, or rather the ship does along all its
lines. The thing looks like one of those computer
drawings that naval architects use. It doesn't light
up all at once, either, but extends from one point to
another, however the navigator set it up for whatever
jump vector he's trying to hit.
So once this grid shape is formed, the whole area
around the hull starts glowing the same shade of blue.
A couple of seconds later, the ship's gone, and this
blue patch just shrinks down to a point before fading
completely.
When a ship comes out of jump, the whole sequence
is reversed: first there's a blue glow, then the ship
appears out of nowhere, and the glow fades a little so
you can see the grid lines, and then they're erased,
one by one."
Description of "jump bubble" from page 11:
"The bubble follows the contour of the jump grid
exactly, and appears as a gull, gray, undulating
"wall" about a meter from the surface of the ship's
hull".
Hope this info helps!
=====
- - "Free Trader" <freetrader2300@yahoo.com>
Visit Free Trader's Traveller Pages:
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 18:23:07 -0600
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Theta Borealis, again
At 12:54 PM 3/16/2001 -0600, you wrote:
> > Sorry for the first blank sending. My cat jumped up
> > on the keyboard out of a need to demonstrate both his
> > love for me and his superiority over my efforts to
> > ignore him.
>
>You sure it wasn't out of a need to post his own views on the "Dogs &
>Humans" thread?
Nah, it was probably to post about "Rats and Cats"
Jimmy Simpson
nimrodd@mail.com
"The avalanche has already started.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
-Kosh Naranek (Babylon 5)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 16:27:23 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: RE: Jump Bubble
At 3:05 PM -0800 3/16/01, Free Trader wrote:
>I seem to recall that according to the old Traveller
>"Starship Operators Manual" (I think DGP may have
>published it under license from GDW), a ship coming
>out of jump would appear first as a glowing blue grid
>(the energized "Lanthanum <spelling?> hull grid") that
>would slowly fill in and fade as the ship re-entered
>normal space. No mention of actually seeing a "bubble".
A recent article by Marc Miller (in JTAS?) describes tearing a hole
in the fabric of space that the ships falls through. The hole is
then closed up again....
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net. My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 19:28:55 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Question about the Imperial military
In a message dated 3/12/01 1:13:13 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com writes:
<< *Avoid* the "Fighting Ships of the
Shattered Imperium" at all costs >>
I wouldn't go that far. I would recommend it if you can get it cheap (say 5$
US or so...). It does have nice data about squadron organization and
descriptions of various vessels. The reason it has the horrible reputation
(entirely deserved BTW...) is that as an MT supplement, EVERY design in the
book has SERIOUS typos and math errors that make the designs useless...;-(
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 16:14:41 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Question on Ship pressurization.
In mail you write:
> Ok this is a funky question and probably not to terribly important but I'm
> going to throw it out.
>
> First a little back ground.
>
> I been doing a little research on the early Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo
> programs. well I found out an interesting thing. Seems that the ships were
> only pressurized to 5 psi pure Oxy.
Try *3* psi.
> Now I have always treated my space ships of being Pressurized to sea level
> pressure of what ever planet the crew came from. however has anyone or does
> anyone actually do something similar to what the afore mentioned NASA
> missions did? as in pressurize the ships to like 5 psi pure Oxy?
It was done solely to save weight. It made the air system simpler and
not carrying the nitrogen saved weight as well. Also, a pressure suit
at 15 psi is damn near impossible to move it, even with *current*
designs. It wants to turn into a ballon. Flexing the arms and legs is
*work*.
Ad fort why it's *not* used once tech allows you to get away from it,
look up the Apollo I fire.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 16:21:27 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Theta Borealis
In mail you write:
> Jeff Hopper wrote:
>>Is there any canon information on the Theta
>>Borealis sector besides its name? I'm also looking for
>>any non-canon information out there as well.
>
> Theta Borealis sector was originally assigned to Group One, one of the early
> Traveller licensees. They never published a sector map/book, but I assume
> all of their adventures (of which there are a half-dozen or so) were set
> there, and may have some incid
> ental Library Data and such. CAVEAT: I don't actually own any Group One
> products, since AFAIK they are 1) no longer considered Canon, and 2) not
> particularly good.
I think there *was* a sector book. But I think it's part of my stuff
that's in storage. But it's no longer official, so it's of academic
interest only.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 16:27:19 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Gohst stories (was Re: Military Doctrine and practices)
In mail you write:
> Well there's the one about the ship which came out of jump on schedule
> and on course. Everything appeared normal. They refused to answer any
> hail, nor were any course changes made. When boarded by the local
> system defense forces, the ship was found to be uninhabited. Not
> abandonded, food was still out in the lounge, drinks were in the bar.
> Nothing appears older than two days. No clues whatsoever in the logs or
> the staterooms. WHen they left, they apparently all left together and
> just stopped what they were doing and just did it.
Another one (stolen from a passing reference in one of Andre Norton's
SF novels....
A ship emerges from jump and just drifts. Doesn't answer hails or
anything.
As the system patrols approach, they don't recogize the ship type. At
first aliens are suspected. then a computer search turns up the ship
type. It's a human ship, but of a design that hasn't been used in over
a millenium.
Upon boarding, they find that the ship is one that was reported lost
1400 years ago. It's quite obvious that the crew survived until the
power on the ship ran out.
Something went wrong, and they've arrived at their destination. Just a
"bit" late. <g>
BTW, at least *some* misjump tables do allow for greatly extended
*duration* of jump. So this is a great way to scare the heck out of
players. <g>
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 14:15:59 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: GDW product
On 16 Mar 2001, at 2:19, Johnny wrote:
> Where can I get a copy of the old GDW product "Atlas of the Imperium?"
Wait, its scheduled in Marc's CT reprints (not exactly sure when, but I
expect it will be soonish).
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 12:30:34 +1100
From: Ian or Katts <ikjw@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: Jump Drive and Damage
>From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
>Subject: Re: Jump drive and damage
>>(IW) This really affects the economics of space travel, as the optimum
>>way to do a commercial starship is to
>>use a small power plant and a honking big battery pack to run the
>>jump drive until you are in jump.
>(DS) I'm not sure I follow. It is a slight variation on the standard "the
>jump fuel is all used at the start of the jump" view.
A standard starship therefore needs to run lights, maybe heat, maybe cooling, maybe some artificial
gravity, and some electronics during jump. Probably about 3 megawatts for a 200 dton Far Trader,
absolute tops. It needs to provide a lot more than that when the jump drive needs power.
If you only need to juice the jump drive during the 20 (or so) minutes of jump entry, then you buy a
much smaller, much cheaper main power plant, and a battery pack to charge up the jump drive. Under
FFS2, batteries are a couple of orders of magnitude cheaper than fusion or fission plants (The
Abomination Known As Fusion Plus I will leave to one side, because it also does bad things to the
economics).
Therefore, ships that have a honking big fusion plant will be far more expensive than 'hybrids' that use
battery packs to charge the jump drive, and a small power plant to run the normal ship functions (note
that you could build a little overage into the power plant, recharge the battery pack en route, and then
use it to provide the maneuver power).
Thus, the hybrid designs would out-compete 'conventional' vessels, thus eventually driving them into
extinction.
Finally, under FFS2 you can build a jump-capable battery-powered starship. It's an FS skunkworks
project ...
Ian Whitchurch
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 17:56:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Antaine <Mist.Warrior@theeclipse.net>
Subject: Re: Jump Bubble
- --- "Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>
> wrote:
>Is this more like what you had in mind, John?
>
>http://www.ssgfx.com/traveller/misc_graphics/jump_exit.gif
>
> - Mark C.
>
That works for Me.....very similar to my mental picture of the exit from jump....
==
- ---------------------------------------------
Antaine.
*Certavi et Vici*
~IMTU tc++ !tm !tn !t4 !tg tt- !to ru+ ge 3i c jt au+ ls pi+ ta he+ kk hi as+ va+ dr+ ith-- vr- ne- so++ zh-- vi- da sy~
_____________________________________________________________
The Eclipse lit & art mag online!
http://theeclipse.net/
ISSN 1530-9371
an ARTISAN STUDIO production
http://artisanstudio.org/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 18:00:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Antaine <Mist.Warrior@theeclipse.net>
Subject: Re: Theta Borealis
- --- Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
>http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
Hello Kitty,
Could you state your views with any more clarity?
==
- ---------------------------------------------
Antaine.
*Certavi et Vici*
~IMTU tc++ !tm !tn !t4 !tg tt- !to ru+ ge 3i c jt au+ ls pi+ ta he+ kk hi as+ va+ dr+ ith-- vr- ne- so++ zh-- vi- da sy~
_____________________________________________________________
The Eclipse lit & art mag online!
http://theeclipse.net/
ISSN 1530-9371
an ARTISAN STUDIO production
http://artisanstudio.org/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 21:58:30 -0500
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net>
Subject: Re: They said megawat lasers he he heh he
Was written:
>> Well, determining the chemical composition of the
>> rock will be trivial, just
>> put a spectroscope in the drill head, you'll have
>> enough gas to analyse fairly
>> easily.
>
>Won't tell you porosity - kinda important if you're
>looking for a hydrocarbon producing formation.
Cutting are used to tell you the age and environment of deposition of the
rock you are drilling thru. This done both by analysis of the sediments and
analysis of the microfossils.
D.C. Phelps, Professional Geologist
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 11:21:53 -0800
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage
..snip..
Although the sudden change in rules from MegatTraveller to TNE, is surely
what is really responsible for the collapse of Imperial civilization, not
the Virus as such.
<grin>
Frankie
I remember a cartoon, may have been Murphys Rules were a traveller warship
is hurtling to a starport. The caption was something like a refit due to an
imminent rules change.
Antony
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 21:28:58 -0600
From: JR Holmes <jrholmes@wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Jump drives and damage.
On Fri, 16 Mar 2001 08:36:46 -0800 (PST), Jeff Hopper
<jeff37923@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Well, IMHO if the jump bubble is created by ejecting
>a cloud of hydrogen around the ship and having it be
>the "conductor" of the jump field, then changing the
>shape of the bubble by dumping hot hydrogen exhaust
>into it will also change the direction and distance of
>the jump. Give them a misjump! (Only change the
>direction of the jump and keep the same distance
>jumped, making sure that there is a world to land on
>when they exit, if you are feeling nice. Give them a
>standard misjump if you want to let them know that
>they were really foolish.)
> IMTU, the jump fuel is also used as a heat sink for
>the jump drive because there is no other way to get
>rid of waste heat in jump space. It is just "stored"
>by allowing it to heat up the jump fuel and then
>expelled upon exiting jump. This is nice in your
>situation in that it allows you to cause a slow
>increase in the temperature of the ship (particularly
>the crew) while they are in jump from they superheated
>exhaust of the HEPlaR drive surrounding the ship. Let
>the tension of the players mount while they slowly
>cook and system failures occur from overheated
>electronics during the jump, soon enough the players
>will be counting the hours before they exit into
>normal space.
> Oh yeah, don't forget to add in the misjump while you
>are broiling them.
Ooo... Cooking them in their juices. Whether or not it causes a
misjump, that alone would probably be enough to motivate the players
against repeating the experiment. And it has the nice dramatic
features that you noted.
- --
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 22:41:43 -0500
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net>
Subject: Re: They said megawat lasers he he heh he
Was written:
>Another application might be horizontal boring for tunnels. Put several
lasers on a drill head and pulse them in sequence. That should
crack/pulverise rock which could then be vacuumed out through the drill
head, or maybe transported out along a turning screw. The screw wouldn't be
cutting, just moving chunks backwards away from the tunnel face.
Horizontal boring for pipes is more likely, while much more prosaic there is
far more demand. Neat thing is that the laser system would produce a
ceramic sheath around and thus seal the "bore" hole. The result would be a
machine which creates its own "pipe". As one of the big problems with
sanitary and storm sewers beyond tearing up streets for installation is in
flow the idea has real merit.
Traveller tie in, picture a system which creates "pipes" through a metallic
asteroid to be used as a base/high port. Air, water, fuel, wastewater,
power conduits, and hydraulics required for the infrastructure could be run
that way. Pneumatic or even hydraulic transfer of bulk cargoes are
possibilities as well. Make the "pipes" closer to tunnels in size and you
could build a pneumatic people mover not unlike the original designs for the
New York subways. Yes it would be less "efficient" and rather low tech but
the simplicity of the design could reduce maintenance to a minimum. As long
as the system is sealed you wouldn't suffer loss and air is compressible. I
can picture portions of the asteroid being left at zero grav. The "subway
cars" would each have their own internal gravity so that passing through
zero grav sections would not be noticeably different unless you stopped at a
station in that section. The resulting installation would be a mix of low
and high tech. Low tech where appropriate for economics and ease of
maintenance and high tech amenities in the "people" areas. As I am no
engineer I am sure that there are problems with what I have suggested so I
leave it to the list to put me straight.
Dan
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 12:44:55 -0800
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
Subject: RE: Jump drives and damage.
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of JR Holmes
Sent: Friday, 16 March 2001 7:29 PM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: Re: Jump drives and damage.
On Fri, 16 Mar 2001 08:36:46 -0800 (PST), Jeff Hopper
<jeff37923@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Well, IMHO if the jump bubble is created by ejecting
>a cloud of hydrogen around the ship and having it be
>the "conductor" of the jump field, then changing the
>shape of the bubble by dumping hot hydrogen exhaust
>into it will also change the direction and distance of
>the jump. Give them a misjump! (Only change the
>direction of the jump and keep the same distance
>jumped, making sure that there is a world to land on
>when they exit, if you are feeling nice. Give them a
>standard misjump if you want to let them know that
>they were really foolish.)
> IMTU, the jump fuel is also used as a heat sink for
>the jump drive because there is no other way to get
>rid of waste heat in jump space. It is just "stored"
>by allowing it to heat up the jump fuel and then
>expelled upon exiting jump. This is nice in your
>situation in that it allows you to cause a slow
>increase in the temperature of the ship (particularly
>the crew) while they are in jump from they superheated
>exhaust of the HEPlaR drive surrounding the ship. Let
>the tension of the players mount while they slowly
>cook and system failures occur from overheated
>electronics during the jump, soon enough the players
>will be counting the hours before they exit into
>normal space.
> Oh yeah, don't forget to add in the misjump while you
>are broiling them.
Ooo... Cooking them in their juices. Whether or not it causes a
misjump, that alone would probably be enough to motivate the players
against repeating the experiment. And it has the nice dramatic
features that you noted.
- --
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com
I like this, this is just what a malicious GM could use.
Thanks for the suggestions.
Antony
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 23:32:44 -0600
From: Charles R Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Newbie Essays (The effects of gravitics on the surroundings)
Bruce wrote:
>> <shameless plug>
>> http://home1.gte.net/res04u7k/Traveller/hrules/elect_prop.html
>> </shameless plug>
>>
>> Charles H
>
>Cool! Can a ducted fan _really_ propel someting into the transonic
range?
>
High bypass turbofan engines work in this range, and they are
effectively a gas turbine powered ducted fan.
>2nd silly question...what would happen if you drove a conventional
>turbofan engine to normal operating revs with an electric motor instead
>of using fuel? I know you would get less thrust, but how much? I'm
>thinking in terms of a dual-regime engine...electric driven near the
>ground, at low speeds, and when you need to be stealthy, and regular
>turbofan mode at higher altitudes, higher speeds, and where you don't
>care what the neigbors think of the noise?
>
>I suspect it would entail a fair bit of variable geometry inside the
>engine, but not much else, given low-mass, high power electric motors.
high bypass: I don't think that the gas turbine adds that much to the
thrust.
low bypass: the jet engine IS producing a fair portion of the thrust.
how much difference?? I don't have my research handy any more (moved 4
times since I wrote that modification and have NO idea which box my
notes are in)
Charles
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 00:50:29 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
Subject: Possible Business Contact...
Will BITS and The Traveller Trader please write me privately? I am in
contact with a potential business opportunity. (Sorry, I manage to lose
addresses.)
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
(ILink: news without the abuse. Ask via email.)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 11:28 +0000 (GMT)
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
Subject: Re: Am I getting through
In-Reply-To: <000401c0ae5e$41a40140$2411303f@MSNdaveshayne>
Greetings dear hearts.
I was once sitting on a dive boat in the Red Sea when a plaintive American
voice on the radio said "Hello, is there anyone out there?"
When I responded I found myself chatting to the radio op on a US
battleship!
Hugs and kisses,
Mexal.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 12:44:20 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: GDW product
Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
> Wait, its scheduled in Marc's CT reprints (not exactly sure when, but I
> expect it will be soonish).
Mmm, great!
I just ordered the Short Adventures reprint from Warehouse 23. I already have
the Adventures reprint. Since I don't use CT, I'm not really interested in the
first two collections. However, any background material will be useful.
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 08:52:24 EST
From: TRiepe5898@aol.com
Subject: Re: Military doctrine and practices
In einer eMail vom 16.03.01 18:49:30 (MEZ) Mitteleuropäische Zeit schreibt
Donovan L:
> In interstellar navies, what general specifications does each major race
> have (if any)? Going through my well-worn copy of LBB #9 Fighting Ships,
it
> seems that a lot of Imperial escorts and some cruisers & dreadnaughts run
in
> the range of Jump-4 and 6-G acceleration. The one reference I found on pg
> 15 ("Performance characteristics for this class make it capable of staying
> with most Imperial fleets (J-4 and 6-G)") makes me think this is "standard"
> for frontline combat ships.
The statistics for several of the vessels in FS do not conform to the rules.
This applies to the Kokirrak and the Tigress AFAIK. Those should probably
have Jump-3.
Tobias Riepe
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3805
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3806
Date: | 3/18/01 7:13:38 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Sunday, March 18 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3806
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Military Doctrine and practices
Re: Gohst stories (was Re: Military Doctrine and practices)
RE: Spacemen's Legends
Re: Military Doctrine and practices
Legends...
Re: Military Doctrine and practices
Re: Military Doctrine and practices
Re: Military Doctrine and practices
Re: Military Doctrine and practices
Re: Question on Ship pressurization.
Minor fix to Yori adventures
Re: Military Doctrine and practices
Re: Jump Drive and Damage
RE: spacer stories
RE: Military doctrine and practices
A slightly off-topic cartoon
Triumphant return
RE: Triumphant return
RE: Jump Bubble
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 15:01:17 GMT
From: TML@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)
Subject: Re: Military Doctrine and practices
Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:
>paranormal. What sort of ghost stories do they tell in the Third Imperium?
> What urban legends make the rounds time and again?
There was the free trader captain during the Long Night, who swore a
blasphemous oath by all the gods of space that he'd make the journey
from Sylea to Vland. Every time his ship approaches Vland, it misjumps
far away and has to begin the journey again from wherever it ends up.
None of the crew can find rest until they finally reach their
destination, and so even today that beat-up old trader can be seen
anywhere in the Imperium, heading for the 100D limit and jumping out
on yet another doomed attempt to finish its voyage.
Then there was the ship which jumped out on a perfectly normal
journey, and when it reappeared at its destination it looked exactly
the same - except everything in the ship was reversed. The bridge was
in the port nose fork instead of the starboard, all the computers
printed out data in mirror writing, and all the crew who had been
right-handed were now left-handed.
And when they conducted psychological tests on the crew, they
discovered that whereas they had all been normal, sane people before,
now each one of them had powerful psychopathic and homicidal
tendencies. It was decided that they were too dangerous to go free,
and so they were committed to a high security Imperial psychiatric
prison for the rest of their lives. However, there was one
exception... a passenger, a respected family doctor. The tests
carried out after the voyage showed _him_ to be entirely sane,
well-balanced and pacifistic...
And then there was the traveller who'd booked low berth passage on a
ship. He was queuing with the other low berthers as the ship's
surgeon put them one by one into the freezers. Then he noticed a
half-open cupboard in a corner of the room, and sneaked a look inside.
In it was a bloodstained wooden board, a large cleaver, and a diagram
of a human body marked out with dotted lines around the major muscle
groups and organs... He quickly invented an urgent need to visit the
bathroom, fled off the ship, and ran for the police... but when they
got there the ship had already lifted off and left the planet, never
to be seen there again.
Stephen
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 09:25:12 -0800
From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Gohst stories (was Re: Military Doctrine and practices)
At 04:27 PM 03/16/01 PST, you wrote:
>BTW, at least *some* misjump tables do allow for greatly extended
>*duration* of jump. So this is a great way to scare the heck out of
>players. <g>
Or to give a good excuse for a mutiny by panicked passengers. "You have to
do something!" syndrome.
The number of times I've had a guest demand that I do something about the
traffic jam in front of us..
Anyway, here's my ghost story:
Freighter is nearing the end of a jump into Efate, and a crewdog is on
emergence watch on the bridge. Suddenly, the commo board lights up.
Confused, the crewie opens channels, and starts hearing a distress call! A
little checking shows that the ship making the call vanished over 500 years
ago when the Captain, trying to break a record, jumped to Efate after a
quick frontier refueling on damaged drives.
In some versions of the story, the ship actually communicates with the
ghost. For a more "Flying Dutchman" feel, add in that ships that make
contact with the ghost tend to have a run of real bad luck.
The best ghost story, of course, has to be the tale of Dawson's Christian:
http://pages.cthome.net/dkelms/dawson.htm
I've finally found a copy of this on CD.. _Parody Violation_ by Jordin
Kare has both the original (slightly changed lyrics) and a parody "Dawson's
Concom."
http://www.random-factors.com/new.htm
- --
Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"I am the penguin bold! We sailed the sea, to tringalee,
in search of spanish gold" - The Magic Pudding - Norman Lindsay
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 09:31:51 -0800
From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Spacemen's Legends
At 01:46 PM 03/16/01 -0800, you wrote:
>What about Dawson's Penguin? <duck, run, cover>
>
>I think the next ship I show a name on will have to be named that :)
Jesse, you just *have* to ask for trouble, don't you? You know that I am
physically incapable of ignoring that challenge.
So because of you, I'm going to be watching "Enemy at the Gates" today
trying to find more ways to do parody of Duane's work.
I swear, if you weren't such a good artist...
- --
Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is that I am now a
perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague here is rapidly running out of
limbs!" - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 10:53:11 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Military Doctrine and practices
In mail you write:
> Then there was the ship which jumped out on a perfectly normal
> journey, and when it reappeared at its destination it looked exactly
> the same - except everything in the ship was reversed. The bridge was
> in the port nose fork instead of the starboard, all the computers
> printed out data in mirror writing, and all the crew who had been
> right-handed were now left-handed.
> And when they conducted psychological tests on the crew, they
> discovered that whereas they had all been normal, sane people before,
> now each one of them had powerful psychopathic and homicidal
> tendencies. It was decided that they were too dangerous to go free,
> and so they were committed to a high security Imperial psychiatric
> prison for the rest of their lives. However, there was one
> exception... a passenger, a respected family doctor. The tests
> carried out after the voyage showed _him_ to be entirely sane,
> well-balanced and pacifistic...
Ok, obviously the bit about the doctor is a reference to *something*, I
just can't figure out *what*.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 14:07:49 -0500
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Legends...
Here is a "Ghost Story" that I sent to the list last year.
In one of my current PBEMs, the characters have encountered something out
of Zhodani legend, their 'Devil' if you will...
Begin passage:
(The narrator is a Lieutenant in the Guards' Commandos)
Taking a sip of water, Iela closes her eyes and almost instantly her
complexion changes for the better. Her breathing becomes regular and
rhythmic and she begins speaking in a low voice, causing the listeners
around the table to lean forward in their seats to hear what she has to
say. “When I was a little girl growing up on my parents estates on the
homeworld, I was told the stories of Plenzzhaliantda, the Eshshati Orila.
Plen, as he is commonly known, was a combination of legend, myth, tall tale
and our people's fears all rolled into one being of supreme evil and
deceit. I remember the stories scared me, and when I misbehaved as a
little girl my mother would say that if I did not behave properly and with
respect and honor, Plen would come in the night and take me to his fortress
built by his Ancient masters. The most disturbing thing I remember about
Plen is that he could influence events by willpower alone.
“What is frightening about this, you might ask? The answer is simple yet
in its simplicity it is complex. We, my people and others that have the
training and talent, can travel between two points instantly and without
travelling the distance between them. We simply disappear from one
location and appear at another. The longer the range, the more skill is
required.
“Plen, in addition to being able to travel this way, was able to send just
his…I’m searching for a word, his 'E’ipr’, his essence so to speak. He
would remain safe at his fortress while he sent his E’ipr out to kidnap
children and cause evil and corruption. The stories also told that he had
a great machine that helped him enhance his powers and that it was a relic
from the days when the Ancients walked among us.
“In all my life I never expected to encounter ‘Plen’; he was after all just
a story told to frighten children. I was wrong.”
:End Passage
If you can use it in your games, please feel free.
Kurt Feltenberger
kurt@blazenet.net
Morrow Project Campaign http://www.sol-3.net
WT-L Support Pages http://www.sol-3.net/wt-l
TEOTWAWKI Fiction and PBEM http://www.teotwawki.net
"To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,
may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"
~Stephen Decatur
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 11:16:29 -0800
From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Military Doctrine and practices
At 10:53 AM 03/17/01 PST, you wrote:
>Ok, obviously the bit about the doctor is a reference to *something*, I
>just can't figure out *what*.
The normal people came out killers.. the doctor came out normal. Think
about it.. :)
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 11:27:20 -0800
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com>
Subject: Re: Military Doctrine and practices
From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
>At 10:53 AM 03/17/01 PST, you wrote:
>
>>Ok, obviously the bit about the doctor is a reference to *something*,
>>I just can't figure out *what*.
>
>The normal people came out killers.. the doctor came out normal. Think
about it.. :)
>
His name wasn't Lecter, was it?
lol,
kiri ^_^
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 14:02:20 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Military Doctrine and practices
On 03/17/01 at 11:16 AM, Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> said:
>At 10:53 AM 03/17/01 PST, you wrote:
>>Ok, obviously the bit about the doctor is a reference to *something*, I
>>just can't figure out *what*.
>The normal people came out killers.. the doctor came out normal.
>Think about it.. :)
...and your point is? <gd&r>
Doug, that was a good Spacer Legend. Just the sort of thing that seems too fantastic to be believed, but just *might* be true.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 14:04:45 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Military Doctrine and practices
On 03/17/01 at 11:27 AM, "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com> said:
>>The normal people came out killers.. the doctor came out normal. Think
>>about it.. :)
>His name wasn't Lecter, was it?
Okay, somebody whip out the English to Vilani converter..Hanibal Lecter in Vilani is? <g>
And connecting two of Doug's Spacer Legends, was he ever a ship's doctor?
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 10:19:14 +1100
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: Question on Ship pressurization.
John Lambert wrote :-
> Military crews who run a higher risk of explosive decompression
> should be able to function at even more reduced cabin pressures with
> the aid of drugs or special diets, plus trainning and conditioning.
The point of diminishing returns comes quickly.
Very fit, very well-trained, adapted people can just climb Everest without
supplemental O2, for example (adapt to 0.5 ATA total pressure over two weeks
then two or three day sprint up to summit and back). This level of exertion
makes marathon running look relatively easy!
Remember that we need to maintain two pressure gradients between the
atmosphere and the tissues :- high oxygen outside, low carbon dioxide
outside. Everything else is window dressing.
Bruce Johnson wrote :-
> Increasing the O2 partial pressure does nasty things to promote
flammability.
Yep. All that MSDS data must have 0.3 ATA as a safe upper limit for a
reason...
Watching metal (e.g. steel) burn in a stream of oxygen is a sobering thing!
> I would think that military craft are routinely evacuated prior to
> combat, with the crew working in Vacc suits. No air, no problem.
Agreed.
Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 23:37:49 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: Minor fix to Yori adventures
Quick note: I noticed a minor glitch in both Yori adventures
("The Silence Of The Goatlings" and "The Name Of The Coral"). A
set of typos ... cosmetic. Both these have now been fixed and
updated on StuffOnline. All those who snagged a copy and hid it
on their hard disks may want to refresh their copies.
(Has anyone run these yet?)
Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 23:52:44 GMT
From: TML@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)
Subject: Re: Military Doctrine and practices
Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:
>>Ok, obviously the bit about the doctor is a reference to *something*, I
>>just can't figure out *what*.
>
>The normal people came out killers.. the doctor came out normal. Think
>about it.. :)
There was a recent notorious murder case here in the UK where an
apparently benevolent, well-respected family doctor (Dr Shipman) was
found to have murdered lots of his elderly female patients. This was
only discovered when they studied the many death certificates he'd
signed in his 40 years of practice and realised just how many of his
patients seemed to die of non-specific causes in the early
afternoon...
I had that in mind when I wrote the story, although it wasn't meant to
be a specific reference.
Stephen
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 16:02:13 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Jump Drive and Damage
At 12:30 PM +1100 3/17/01, Ian or Katts wrote:
>A standard starship therefore needs to run lights, maybe heat, maybe
>cooling, maybe some artificial
>gravity, and some electronics during jump. Probably about 3 megawatts for
>a 200 dton Far Trader,
>absolute tops. It needs to provide a lot more than that when the jump
>drive needs power.
>
>If you only need to juice the jump drive during the 20 (or so) minutes of
>jump entry, then you buy a
>much smaller, much cheaper main power plant, and a battery pack to charge
>up the jump drive. Under
>FFS2, batteries are a couple of orders of magnitude cheaper than fusion or
>fission plants (The
>Abomination Known As Fusion Plus I will leave to one side, because it also
>does bad things to the
>economics).
In CT/MT and GT (reprinting a TNS item), energy storage devices that can
store enough energy for a jump are a very new device (they are the basis
for drop tanks). They do make a big difference. However, the only
alternative is not that you have to use energy evenly over jump. Before
drop tanks, versions of Traveller simply assumed you couldn't store enough
energy and so had to generate it when needed. The does leave what some see
as an issue about using that energy for a weapon that can fire one big
shot. My solution is that being able to burn that much fuel is linked to
jumping (the whole into jump space gives you a energy sink that allows you
to handle that much energy). Others invoke "jump bubbles".
____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 18:11:45 -0600
From: Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
Subject: RE: spacer stories
grizzled old spacer story [snippdd]
>Then tapping his bottle with is finger Olaf says, "You remind >me of a
spacer I ran into on Gram, interesting story..."
>"...but all this talking has dried out my whistle and..." he >cocks his
head and tips his bottle over, "...and I'm out of >wet?"
"GET THAT MAN A BEER!!!!!!!!"
Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/Spinward Marches
was Hot Springs, Arkansas USA Terra Sol Solomani Rim
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 12:34:10 -0800
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
Subject: RE: Military doctrine and practices
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of TRiepe5898@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, 17 March 2001 5:52 AM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: Re: Military doctrine and practices
In einer eMail vom 16.03.01 18:49:30 (MEZ) Mitteleuropäische Zeit schreibt
Donovan L:
> In interstellar navies, what general specifications does each major race
> have (if any)? Going through my well-worn copy of LBB #9 Fighting Ships,
it
> seems that a lot of Imperial escorts and some cruisers & dreadnaughts run
in
> the range of Jump-4 and 6-G acceleration. The one reference I found on
pg
> 15 ("Performance characteristics for this class make it capable of
staying
> with most Imperial fleets (J-4 and 6-G)") makes me think this is
"standard"
> for frontline combat ships.
The statistics for several of the vessels in FS do not conform to the rules.
This applies to the Kokirrak and the Tigress AFAIK. Those should probably
have Jump-3.
Tobias Riepe
Using FFS1 I was able to coax jump-4 and 3G out of a Tigress. Surface area
was a real problem on this configuration, but by adjusting the size of the
block on the aft of the sphere I was just able to get things to fit.
Antony
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 12:42:13 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: A slightly off-topic cartoon
http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20010318&mode=
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 11:51:04 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: Triumphant return
Hi everyone, I'm back. Can someone fill me in on current topics, queries
flamewars etc?
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 12:24:34 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Triumphant return
Dean wrote:
> Hi everyone, I'm back. Can someone fill me in on current topics,
> queries flamewars etc?
Welcome back. After a whole lot of stuff about RL database
technologies (and some weird thing called XML) the main topics at
the moment are jump drives (again) and spacer's ghost stories.
There have been several others including vacc suits, ship
pressurisation, WW2 military ranks, Traveller defined as a
religion (and what our Holy Day should be), etc. Eris wrote some
stuff about the Reaver's Deep sector, Dan posted his premilinary
notes for his TML Landgrab of Arba/Lunion, I finally got round to
doing a website review of Beowulf Down and correcting a minor
error in the Yori adventures. Other than that its been pretty
quite around here of late.
Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 07:06:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Jump Bubble
Ya'know, this sounds an aweful lot like the jumpgate
sequences used on the show Babylon 5. Personally, that
is the one I use for visual effects of jump entry/exit
because most players are familiar with it and it looks
cool.
- --- "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> At 3:05 PM -0800 3/16/01, Free Trader wrote:
> >I seem to recall that according to the old
> Traveller
> >"Starship Operators Manual" (I think DGP may have
> >published it under license from GDW), a ship coming
> >out of jump would appear first as a glowing blue
> grid
> >(the energized "Lanthanum <spelling?> hull grid")
> that
> >would slowly fill in and fade as the ship
> re-entered
> >normal space. No mention of actually seeing a
> "bubble".
>
> A recent article by Marc Miller (in JTAS?) describes
> tearing a hole
> in the fabric of space that the ships falls through.
> The hole is
> then closed up again....
>
> ______________________________
> summers@alum.mit.edu
> (This is the net. My e-mail address may be in
> Boston, but I'm in California.)
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3806
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3807
Date: | 3/19/01 4:22:21 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Monday, March 19 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3807
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
OT: Penguinboy at the Gates
RE: Military doctrine and practices
Calculating satellite orbits
Music for BayCon party
Re: Minor fix to Yori adventures
Re: Music for BayCon party
Re: Music for BayCon party
Re: Music for BayCon party
Re: Music for BayCon party
Re: Question on Ship pressurization.
Re: Ghost stories
Re: Calculating satellite orbits
Re: Question on Ship pressurization.
Re: Calculating satellite orbits
RE: Ghost stories
RE: Music for BayCon party
RE: Question on Ship pressurization.
RE: Music for BayCon party
Re: Music for BayCon party
RE: Music for BayCon party
Laser drill
Re: Music for BayCon party
RE: Minor fix to Yori adventures
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 11:13:54 -0500
From: "Walt Smith" <firelock_ny@hotmail.com>
Subject: OT: Penguinboy at the Gates
Strangely enough, right after Penguinboy mentioned having
to mine the new movie "Enemy at the Gates" for ideas...
http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20010318&mode=
Walt Smith
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 09:39:14 -0800
From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Military doctrine and practices
At 12:34 PM 03/18/01 -0800, you wrote:
>Using FFS1 I was able to coax jump-4 and 3G out of a Tigress. Surface area
>was a real problem on this configuration, but by adjusting the size of the
>block on the aft of the sphere I was just able to get things to fit.
For larger warships I've never seen the point of giant accelerations.
Jump-4 is the IN standard, so that has to go in there.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 18:50:36 GMT
From: "John G. Wood" <elvwood@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Calculating satellite orbits
I'm trying to develop Prilissa highport, and one of the details I want
to include is the orbit. However, I'm not sure how high up to put it.
Question One:
Prilissa is tidelocked, so it will not be in geostationary orbit; would
it be better to pass over the main downport frequently for a short time
(low orbit) or less often but for longer (higher orbit)? I'm tempted by
the low orbit, but feel free to talk me out of it.
Question Two:
Given all necessary planetary details (diameter, density, surface
atmospheric pressure, atmospheric composition, etc), how do I calculate
the minimum stable altitude? I am not intending to put engines on the
port and don't want it burning up because I put it too low. I suspect
that the minimum atmospheric pressure is all I need to know, thanks to
the second reference below.
References to formulae:
Orbital period:
http://www.seds.org/pub/faq/Space_FAQ_04_13_-_Calculations
Atmospheric pressure at given altitude:
http://www.physics.usyd.edu.au/~mar/gurps/science/pressure.html
TIA,
John
http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 11:34:21 -0800
From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
Subject: Music for BayCon party
We're really starting to gear up the annual bash, but a question has arrisen..
What music should we put on the CDs we're making? We want good rock music
with a SF feel to it. So far we have the following selected:
Track Band
Black Noise (Album) FM
Here is the News ELO
Standing on the Moon The Grateful Dead
Darkstar The Grateful Dead
Space Oddity David Bowie
Ashes to Ashes David Bowie
Starman David Bowie
Planet Earth Duran Duran
Major Tom Peter Schilling
Rocket Man Elton John
Flash Queen
Any suggestions?
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"Genetically" we are nearly identical to fruit flies. On the
other hand, as a species we write better string quartets.
- Rich Clancey
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 20:38:27 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Minor fix to Yori adventures
"Trevor, Peter" wrote:
> Quick note: I noticed a minor glitch in both Yori adventures
> ("The Silence Of The Goatlings" and "The Name Of The Coral"). A
> set of typos ... cosmetic. Both these have now been fixed and
> updated on StuffOnline. All those who snagged a copy and hid it
> on their hard disks may want to refresh their copies.
Where can I find these adventures?
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 20:44:49 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Music for BayCon party
Douglas Berry wrote:
> What music should we put on the CDs we're making? We want good rock music
> with a SF feel to it. So far we have the following selected:
>
<snip>
>
> Any suggestions?
'The final countdown' by Europe (a Swedish 80ies pop-rock-band)
I could supply the song for you if you need it.
Something from the album 'Dark side of the moon' (Pink Floyd)
'Man on the moon' by R.E.M.
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 15:43:04 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Music for BayCon party
>What music should we put on the CDs we're making? We want good rock music
>with a SF feel to it. So far we have the following selected:
Frank Black - "Men in Black" (nothing to do with Will Smith)
Spiritualized - "Ladies and Gentlemen, We Are Floating In Space"
Smashing Pumpkins - "Rocket"
The Cult - "The Witch" (nothing to do with space, but sounds like it)
Jesus Jones - "Blissed"
Marcy Playground - "Wave Motion Gun"
Pop Will Eat Itself - "X, Y, & Zee"
Radiohead - "Subterranean Homesick Alien"
Madness - "One Step Beyond" (if your idea of SF is "Buckaroo Banzai")
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 21:51 +0000 (GMT)
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
Subject: Re: Music for BayCon party
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20010318113421.006b01c4@mindspring.com>
Greetings dear hearts.
'Interstellar Overdrive' by Pink Floyd.
Just about anything by Tangerine Dream.
'Rendezvous' by Jean Michel Jarre (especially if you know the story behind
it).
'Walking on the Moon' by Phillippe Kahn.
Hugs and kisses,
Mexal.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 13:56:21 -0800
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com>
Subject: Re: Music for BayCon party
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se>
To: traveller@lists.ient.com <traveller@lists.ient.com>
Date: Sunday, March 18, 2001 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: Music for BayCon party
>Douglas Berry wrote:
>> What music should we put on the CDs we're making? We want good rock
music with a SF feel to it. So far we have the following selected:
>>
Doug, are you looking for the lyrics, or a particular type of sound?
I have lots of stuff but not all of it has lyrics that your average con
guest will be able to understand.
><snip>
>>
>> Any suggestions?
>
>'The final countdown' by Europe (a Swedish 80ies pop-rock-band)
>I could supply the song for you if you need it.
>
>Something from the album 'Dark side of the moon' (Pink Floyd)
>
>'Man on the moon' by R.E.M.
>
Does anyone have the "War of the Worlds" that came out in the late 70's on
CD? I've looked for it to no avail.
Kiri ^_^
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 23:25:41
From: "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Question on Ship pressurization.
I'm beginning to rethink how I see a crew on a military ship standing watch.
At all but the lowest threat levels, the crew on watch would be in
spacesuits with helmet and gloves nearby. You would not want the entire
watch having to don suits if a threat were to appear. (The spacesuits would
not be the standard EV suits, but special versions with a lot of interface
gear for operating their stations when buttoned up.) At the highest threat
levels, the entire crew would be in suits ready to don helmets and gloves.
And, as indicated, when actually going into combat, everyone would be fully
suited and the ship's atmosphere would be evacuated.
I would also think that the threat level would automatically increased prior
to jump exit with the watch in suits since there is no telling who might be
waiting.
I'm seeing an image the bridge of a higher tech level ship going into
combat. The bridge is dark, everyone is buttoned up and operating their
stations through their suit interfaces. There is no sound since the ship is
evacuated and all comm is through the suit interfaces. It would be a spooky
sight especially to someone not patched into the comm network.
John
>From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au>
>>
> > I would think that military craft are routinely evacuated prior to
> > combat, with the crew working in Vacc suits. No air, no problem.
>Agreed.
>
>
>Robert O'Connor
>Medico, Gamer
>
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 15:36:32 -0800
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
Subject: Re: Ghost stories
["Mirror Mirror" snipped]
Cute, but you left out the part where their anatomy, proteins, etc got
flipped too, and they can only get nourishment out of "left-handed" food.
(Ten years later, and I still remember that little snippet of weirdness
from "Bayern" [T:2300 adventure].)
- --------------
Kelly St.Clair "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org Right here in fair Verona
With a capital T that rhymes with D
That stands for Duel..."
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 18:56:37 -0600
From: JR Holmes <jrholmes@wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Calculating satellite orbits
On Sun, 18 Mar 2001 18:50:36 GMT, "John G. Wood"
<elvwood@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>I'm trying to develop Prilissa highport, and one of the details I want
>to include is the orbit. However, I'm not sure how high up to put it.
>Question One:
>Prilissa is tidelocked, so it will not be in geostationary orbit; would
>it be better to pass over the main downport frequently for a short time
>(low orbit) or less often but for longer (higher orbit)? I'm tempted by
>the low orbit, but feel free to talk me out of it.
>
>Question Two:
>Given all necessary planetary details (diameter, density, surface
>atmospheric pressure, atmospheric composition, etc), how do I calculate
>the minimum stable altitude? I am not intending to put engines on the
>port and don't want it burning up because I put it too low. I suspect
>that the minimum atmospheric pressure is all I need to know, thanks to
>the second reference below.
>
>References to formulae:
>
>Orbital period:
> http://www.seds.org/pub/faq/Space_FAQ_04_13_-_Calculations
>Atmospheric pressure at given altitude:
> http://www.physics.usyd.edu.au/~mar/gurps/science/pressure.html
How about using something like the halo orbits that the Russian
Molniya (spelling?) satellites use? They use a large eliptical orbit
with the apogee arranged to fall above the preferred downport. That
apogee tracks around to follow the downport as it moves. For that
reason, the satellites spend about 75%(?) of their orbital time above
the desired location.
- --
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 01:14:56 GMT
From: TML@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)
Subject: Re: Question on Ship pressurization.
Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> writes:
>I would think that military craft are routinely evacuated prior to combat, with the crew working in Vacc suits. No air, no problem.
That means a trade-off: yes, you avoid the danger of explosive
decompression. You also ensure that any crew who are wounded by
flying debris, etc, will probably die, since their suits will be
pierced and the medics will be unable to treat them in time.
Depending on the TL of your vacc suits, you might also greatly reduce
the efficiency of your crew. Bridge staff might be OK as they can
just sit there interfaced into their panels, but what about damage
control, engineering, etc who need to move around freely? Plus,
what's the endurance of these vacc suits? How long will a crew have
to remain inside them during an emergency?
As a compromise, lowering the air pressure to a level that's just
survivable without a vacc suit would avoid these problems while still
reducing the amount of air that's lost in case of a hull breach. Of
course, crew could still wear vacc suits on watch "just in case"
unless their job made that impractical. Sound reasonable?
Stephen
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 19:40:17 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Calculating satellite orbits
In mail you write:
> I'm trying to develop Prilissa highport, and one of the details I want
> to include is the orbit. However, I'm not sure how high up to put it.
> Question One:
> Prilissa is tidelocked, so it will not be in geostationary orbit; would
> it be better to pass over the main downport frequently for a short time
> (low orbit) or less often but for longer (higher orbit)? I'm tempted by
> the low orbit, but feel free to talk me out of it.
Actually, if the planet is tidally locked, the odds are that only low
orbits are at all stable!
Take the mass of the star (Ms) and the mass of the planet (Mp). Also
take the distance to the star when the station is closest (Rs) and the
distance of the station from the planet (Rp). Measure both from the
*center* of the star/planet. Use these to calculate the acceleration
due to the gravity of the Star (As) and the planet (Ap).
As = G*Ms/Rs^2 Ap = G*Mp/Rp^2
So, since we want the acceleration from the planet to exceed the
acceleration from the star:
As < Ap
G*Ms/Rs^2 < G*Mp/Rp^2
G drops out.
Ms/Rs^2 < Mp/Rp^2
> Question Two:
> Given all necessary planetary details (diameter, density, surface
> atmospheric pressure, atmospheric composition, etc), how do I calculate
> the minimum stable altitude? I am not intending to put engines on the
> port and don't want it burning up because I put it too low. I suspect
> that the minimum atmospheric pressure is all I need to know, thanks to
> the second reference below.
Remember that the lower the surface gravity, the *slower* the
atmospheric density drops with altitude.
As far as atmospheric drag is concerned, you want something equivalent
to 100 miles (600 km) above Earth. Preferrably 1000-2000 km.
And you'll *have* to put some engines in there, even if they only
provide 1/100th g of thrust. Because you *will* need to make orbital
corrections from time to time.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 13:45:22 -0800
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
Subject: RE: Ghost stories
I have a book in front on me called Tour of the Universe by Malcolm Edwards
and Robert Holdstock published by Mayflower books in 1980 which has a
section called The Haunted Eye: Myths and Legends of Stargates. One of the
items is about a ship IS Ambassador which entered a stargate in 2286AD and
vanished, emerging in 2306 mirrored. Sadly the ship never made it out of the
gate being sucked back in.
Antony
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:11:45 +1200
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: Music for BayCon party
Douglas Berry wrote :
> What music should we put on the CDs we're making? We want good rock music
> with a SF feel to it. So far we have the following selected:
>
> Any suggestions?
Ok, here's an eclectic mix from my collection :
"Planet Claire" B.52's
"There's a Moon in the Sky (Called the Moon) B.52's
"Interstelllar Overdrive" Pink Floyd
"Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun" Pink Floyd
"Learning to Fly" Pink Floyd
"Cygnus X1" Rush
"Blackhole Sun" ???
"Oh Yes, We're Being Invaded" Crack the Sky
"Robots for Ronny" Crack the Sky
"Are Friends Electric?" Tubeway Army (Gary Numan)
"Thunder Child" Jeff Waynes "War of the Worlds"
"The Eve of the War" Jeff Waynes "War of the Worlds"
"Little Neutrino" Klaatu
"Calling Occupants of Interplanetary Craft" Klaatu (or the Carpenters
version)
The Entire "Intergalactic Touring Band" Album Various
"Quark Strangeness and Charm" Hawkwind
"Sonic Attack" Hawkwind
"Lost in Space : The Movie" Apollo 440
"Blue" Eiffel 65
"Bird of Prey" Moby
"Atomic" Blondie
"Fade Away (and Radiate)" Blondie
"Space Cowboy" Steve Miller Band
"Love is like Oxygen" The Sweet
"Wouldn't wanna be like you" The Alan Parsons Project
"I, Robot" The Alan Parsons Project
"Satellite of Love" Lou Reed (of "Transformer")
And the one you absolutely _have_ to have this year :
"Also Sprach Zarathustra(2001)" R.STrauss & Deodata
If you want anymore, I can start on the second shelf of my record collection
<grin>.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:25:40 +1200
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: Question on Ship pressurization.
Stephen Tempest wrote:
> Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> writes:
>
> >I would think that military craft are routinely evacuated prior
> to combat, with the crew working in Vacc suits. No air, no problem.
>
> That means a trade-off: yes, you avoid the danger of explosive
> decompression. You also ensure that any crew who are wounded by
> flying debris, etc, will probably die, since their suits will be
> pierced and the medics will be unable to treat them in time.
Which is why all space-going personel are regularly trained with suit
patching or have "self-sealing" suits.
"Flying debris" will mainly occur from penetrations anyway, although there
may be some "flaking" or secondary explosions.
> Depending on the TL of your vacc suits, you might also greatly reduce
> the efficiency of your crew. Bridge staff might be OK as they can
> just sit there interfaced into their panels, but what about damage
> control, engineering, etc who need to move around freely?
Have you ever seen a damage control team on a modern ship?
They are pretty heavily suited up anyway for fire and chemical protection,
with breathing gear
and the lot. It's not fun working on those suits, but they do it.
> Plus, what's the endurance of these vacc suits? How long will a crew have
> to remain inside them during an emergency?
This is not a problem. Suit air is still only used in an emergency, and just
like a modern aircraft you'll be umbilicalled to to ship air unless moving
around.
For those movinmg round, if it's like a large modern aircraft or hospital,
there will be "air stations" at regular intervals around the ship.
Another benefit of evacuation is easier control of fires.
The most major drawback of evacuation is repressurization.
Where do you get or store the air ?
In military _aircraft_ it's not a problem, you just repressurize from out
side.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 00:20:29 -0800
From: "Jeff" <jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu>
Subject: RE: Music for BayCon party
How about "Domo aragato (sp?) Mr.Roboto"
Jeff
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Frank G. Pitt
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 12:12 AM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: RE: Music for BayCon party
Douglas Berry wrote :
> What music should we put on the CDs we're making? We want good rock music
> with a SF feel to it. So far we have the following selected:
>
> Any suggestions?
Ok, here's an eclectic mix from my collection :
"Planet Claire" B.52's
"There's a Moon in the Sky (Called the Moon) B.52's
"Interstelllar Overdrive" Pink Floyd
"Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun" Pink Floyd
"Learning to Fly" Pink Floyd
"Cygnus X1" Rush
"Blackhole Sun" ???
"Oh Yes, We're Being Invaded" Crack the Sky
"Robots for Ronny" Crack the Sky
"Are Friends Electric?" Tubeway Army (Gary Numan)
"Thunder Child" Jeff Waynes "War of the Worlds"
"The Eve of the War" Jeff Waynes "War of the Worlds"
"Little Neutrino" Klaatu
"Calling Occupants of Interplanetary Craft" Klaatu (or the Carpenters
version)
The Entire "Intergalactic Touring Band" Album Various
"Quark Strangeness and Charm" Hawkwind
"Sonic Attack" Hawkwind
"Lost in Space : The Movie" Apollo 440
"Blue" Eiffel 65
"Bird of Prey" Moby
"Atomic" Blondie
"Fade Away (and Radiate)" Blondie
"Space Cowboy" Steve Miller Band
"Love is like Oxygen" The Sweet
"Wouldn't wanna be like you" The Alan Parsons Project
"I, Robot" The Alan Parsons Project
"Satellite of Love" Lou Reed (of "Transformer")
And the one you absolutely _have_ to have this year :
"Also Sprach Zarathustra(2001)" R.STrauss & Deodata
If you want anymore, I can start on the second shelf of my record collection
<grin>.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 00:54:31 -0800
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com>
Subject: Re: Music for BayCon party
From: Jeff <jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu>
>How about "Domo aragato (sp?) Mr.Roboto"
>
Um, let me think about that.....
I don't think so!
Kiri-chan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 00:56:45 -0800
From: "Jeff" <jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu>
Subject: RE: Music for BayCon party
Aww. No fun.
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Kiri Aradia Morgan
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 12:55 AM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: Re: Music for BayCon party
From: Jeff <jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu>
>How about "Domo aragato (sp?) Mr.Roboto"
>
Um, let me think about that.....
I don't think so!
Kiri-chan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 11:01:56 +0200
From: Antti Lahtinen <lahtinen@ee.tut.fi>
Subject: Laser drill
Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Not sure what drilling mud is, but you almost certainly are using some
> sort of pressure cap.
One version of laser drill I have seen here used liquid to wash
away the loose rock. The laser head was equipped with high-
pressure nitrogen jet which cleared the rock in front of the
head so that the laser did not have to penetrate thick layer of
liquid. The laser was fired as high-rate pulses so that each
pulse blasted off a thin layer of rock.
IIRC, the laser did not actually melt of vaporize the rock, but
actually vaporized a thin layer of water in the surface of the
rock (small amount of water mist was introduced with the
nitrogen jet). The sudden vaporization of water cause a tiny
explosion, which broke a layer of rock, and this loose rock was
blown off by the nitrogen jet and washed away with the washing
liquid.
The washing liquid was called "drilling mud" for some historical
reason.
- --
Antti Lahtinen lahtinen@ee.tut.fi
Researcher, MSc (Eng) http://www.ee.tut.fi/~lahtinen
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 11:16:19 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Music for BayCon party
"Frank G. Pitt" wrote:
> If you want anymore, I can start on the second shelf of my record collection
Well, I'll take a few more looks in my shelf. This time in the electronic part
of it (where most of my records are):
Anything by S.P.O.C.K (synthpop from Sweden, mostly Star Trek-themed)
'Dead stars' by Covenant (Swedish synth)
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 12:16:35 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Minor fix to Yori adventures
Jens Rydholm wrote:
> "Trevor, Peter" wrote:
> > Quick note: I noticed a minor glitch in both Yori adventures
> > ("The Silence Of The Goatlings" and "The Name Of The Coral"). A
> > set of typos ... cosmetic. Both these have now been fixed and
> > updated on StuffOnline. All those who snagged a copy and hid it
> > on their hard disks may want to refresh their copies.
>
> Where can I find these adventures?
StuffOnline = http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen/sol
From there click on "Traveller", and then "TML Landgrab: Yori".
At the bottom of the main Yori page are links to related material
(including the two adventures I mentioned).
Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3807
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3808
Date: | 3/19/01 8:48:28 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Monday, March 19 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3808
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Ghost stories
Re: Ghost stories
Re: Music for BayCon party
Re: Military doctrine and practices
RE: Music for BayCon party
Music for the Baycon Party
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3807
Re: Calculating satellite orbits
Re: Calculating satellite orbits
Down in the Ratings (was re: Ghost Stories)
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3807
Re: Ghost stories
RE: Question on Ship pressurization.
Re: Down in the Ratings (was re: Ghost Stories)
RE: Ghost stories
Slightly OT: ringworld xbox pictures
Re: Slightly OT: ringworld xbox pictures
Looking for right time and place
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 04:44:37 -0800
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
Subject: Re: Ghost stories
On Mon, 19 Mar 2001 13:45:22 -0800, "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
wrote:
>I have a book in front on me called Tour of the Universe by Malcolm Edwards
>and Robert Holdstock published by Mayflower books in 1980 which has a
>section called The Haunted Eye: Myths and Legends of Stargates. One of the
>items is about a ship IS Ambassador which entered a stargate in 2286AD and
>vanished, emerging in 2306 mirrored. Sadly the ship never made it out of the
>gate being sucked back in.
I remember that book - one of those big books fulla SF paintings that came
out in the wake of STAR WARS, I should see if the library still has it -
and I believe /Ambassador/ was sending backwards distress signals too. Freaky.
Then you have the Aurora-Magellans, the totalitarian state who were, like
the Zhos, a thinly-disguised stand-in for the Evil Empire. I miss the Cold
War, not.
ObTrav: the PCs win a sweepstakes that none of them can recall entering,
the prize being an all-expense-paid trip to a Consulate world. Of course
it's all a lucky mix-up, and the PCs are just ordinary tourists... right?
- --------------
Kelly St.Clair "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org Right here in fair Verona
With a capital T that rhymes with D
That stands for Duel..."
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 12:54:06 +0000
From: Rob Myers <robm@tdv.com>
Subject: Re: Ghost stories
On Monday, March 19, 2001, at 12:44 PM, Kelly St.Clair wrote:
>
> On Mon, 19 Mar 2001 13:45:22 -0800, "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
> wrote:
>
> >I have a book in front on me called Tour of the Universe by Malcolm Edwards
> >and Robert Holdstock published by Mayflower books in 1980 which has a
> >section called The Haunted Eye: Myths and Legends of Stargates. One of the
> >items is about a ship IS Ambassador which entered a stargate in 2286AD and
> >vanished, emerging in 2306 mirrored. Sadly the ship never made it out of the
> >gate being sucked back in.
>
> I remember that book - one of those big books fulla SF paintings that came
> out in the wake of STAR WARS, I should see if the library still has it -
> and I believe /Ambassador/ was sending backwards distress signals too. Freaky.
It certainly was. They managed to board it before it got sucked back in to the stargate. All they found was a patch of hornified (sic?) human skin on one wall.
The tomb-world, zoo/big-game-world, giant grazers and spider planet are all great fun. If you ever get a chance to pick up a copy, it's well worth a read.
- - Rob.
- --
JIEX - http://www.robmyers.org/jiex/
Journal de l'Institut des Etudes Xenologiques,
Edition en Anglais.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 07:19:23 -0600
From: "D. Smart" <dsmart@imagin.net>
Subject: Re: Music for BayCon party
Douglas ("Penguin Boy, SIR!") Berry requested:
>
> We're really starting to gear up the annual bash, but a question has arrisen..
>
> What music should we put on the CDs we're making? We want good rock music
> with a SF feel to it. So far we have the following selected:
Not bad, not a bad selection at all. However..I had to
delurk and make a
suggestion.
This one's probably before your time, Doug, (heck, it's
before the time of the
vast majority of the TML) but it's like bagpipe music.
You'll either love it or
hate it. I'll be surprised if anyone's heard of it, though.
"Children of the Sun" by Billy Thorpe.
There is *nothing* more sci-fi and more rock than this.
Especially after knocking down a keg with some buds then
assaulting a
asteroid meson gun emplacement.
David
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 08:21:19 EST
From: TRiepe5898@aol.com
Subject: Re: Military doctrine and practices
- --part1_ae.123c61fb.27e761cf_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In einer eMail vom 19.03.01 13:22:21 (MEZ) Mitteleurop=E4ische Zeit schreibt=
=20
Douglas Berry:
> >Using FFS1 I was able to coax jump-4 and 3G out of a Tigress. Surface are=
a
> >was a real problem on this configuration, but by adjusting the size of th=
e
> >block on the aft of the sphere I was just able to get things to fit.
>=20
> For larger warships I've never seen the point of giant accelerations.
> Jump-4 is the IN standard, so that has to go in there.
Well, those ships were originally done for High Guard, and under High Guard=20
rules a good acceleration / agility is very important.
Anyway, why should larger vessels generally have a lower acceleration than=20
small ones?=20
- --part1_ae.123c61fb.27e761cf_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In einer eMail vom 19.03.=
01 13:22:21 (MEZ) Mitteleurop=E4ische Zeit schreibt=20
Douglas Berry:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-=
LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">&gt;Using FFS1 I was able t=
o coax jump-4 and 3G out of a Tigress. Surface area
&gt;was a real problem on this configuration, but by adjusting the size=20=
of the
&gt;block on the aft of the sphere I was just able to get things to fit.
For larger warships I've never seen the point of giant accelerations.
Jump-4 is the IN standard, so that has to go in there.R=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"2"></BLOC=
KQUOTE>
ial" LANG=3D"2">
Well, those ships were originally done for High Guard, and under High Gu=
ard=20
rules a good acceleration / agility is very important.
Anyway, why should larger vessels generally have a lower acceleration th=
an=20
small ones?=20
- --part1_ae.123c61fb.27e761cf_boundary--
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 08:26:35 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Music for BayCon party
>"Bird of Prey" Moby
Lord, the Fatboy Slim version wasn't bad enough, now Moby had to go and
cover it?
<shudder>
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 07:30:06 -0600
From: "Shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net>
Subject: Music for the Baycon Party
if theres any filk going on it, the choices abound, and as I get out
the FGMP-15 to open a can of worms and suggest looking in
Napster for some of the old Off Centaur productions stuff, which
since its long and permanently out of print, almost all of it was
posted there.
heres some ideas for that
Hope Eyerie
Rocket Riders Prayer
Dawsons Christian
Bomber
Pheonyx[sp?]
Carmen Mirandas Ghost
Ballad of Apollo 13
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 08:34:30 EST
From: TRiepe5898@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3807
- --part1_be.11896993.27e764e6_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In einer eMail vom 19.03.01 13:22:21 (MEZ) Mitteleurop=E4ische Zeit schreibt=
=20
Frank G. Pitt:
> > Depending on the TL of your vacc suits, you might also greatly reduce
> > the efficiency of your crew. Bridge staff might be OK as they can
> > just sit there interfaced into their panels, but what about damage
> > control, engineering, etc who need to move around freely?
>=20
> Have you ever seen a damage control team on a modern ship?
>=20
> They are pretty heavily suited up anyway for fire and chemical protection,
> with breathing gear
> and the lot. It's not fun working on those suits, but they do it.
True, but not all of the damage control team members wear those ( at least=20
that=B4s the way it was on the vessels I served on ). Just the ones who real=
ly=20
need it, who are expected to put out fires manually, have them ( Just guess=20
who had to do that in our team ... ). Others, whose jobs require more=20
physical agility, have lighter protection.
In Traveller, the problems probably will disappear at higher Tech Levels. A=20
TL-15 vacc suit is normally described as very light and comfortable to use.=20
The only problems I see for extended time periods are food and drink. Any=20
ideas about that? Sanitation could be a problem, too, but I think I remember=
=20
an earlier thread about that...
Tobias Riepe
- --part1_be.11896993.27e764e6_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In einer eMail vom 19.03.=
01 13:22:21 (MEZ) Mitteleurop=E4ische Zeit schreibt=20
Frank G. Pitt:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-=
LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">&gt; Depending on the TL of=
your vacc suits, you might also greatly reduce
&gt; the efficiency of your crew. &nbsp;Bridge staff might be OK as they=
can
&gt; just sit there interfaced into their panels, but what about damage
&gt; control, engineering, etc who need to move around freely?
Have you ever seen a damage control team on a modern ship?
They are pretty heavily suited up anyway for fire and chemical protectio=
n,
with breathing gear
and the lot. It's not fun working on those suits, but they do it.=
=3D"2"></BLOCKQUOTE>
ial" LANG=3D"2">
True, but not all of the damage control team members wear those ( at lea=
st=20
that=B4s the way it was on the vessels I served on ). Just the ones who=20=
really=20
need it, who are expected to put out fires manually, have them ( Just gu=
ess=20
who had to do that in our team ... ). Others, whose jobs require more=20
physical agility, have lighter protection.
In Traveller, the problems probably will disappear at higher Tech Levels=
. A=20
TL-15 vacc suit is normally described as very light and comfortable to u=
se.=20
The only problems I see for extended time periods are food and drink. An=
y=20
ideas about that? Sanitation could be a problem, too, but I think I reme=
mber=20
an earlier thread about that...
Tobias Riepe
- --part1_be.11896993.27e764e6_boundary--
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 14:55:31 GMT
From: "John G. Wood" <elvwood@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: Calculating satellite orbits
JR Holmes <jrholmes@wi.rr.com> wrote:
> How about using something like the halo orbits that the Russian
> Molniya (spelling?) satellites use? They use a large eliptical orbit
> with the apogee arranged to fall above the preferred downport. That
> apogee tracks around to follow the downport as it moves. For that
> reason, the satellites spend about 75%(?) of their orbital time above
> the desired location.
Nice idea - do you know of any formulae I could use?
John
http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 14:55:36 GMT
From: "John G. Wood" <elvwood@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: Calculating satellite orbits
shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
> > Prilissa is tidelocked, so it will not be in geostationary orbit; would
> > it be better to pass over the main downport frequently for a short time
> > (low orbit) or less often but for longer (higher orbit)? I'm tempted by
> > the low orbit, but feel free to talk me out of it.
>
> Actually, if the planet is tidally locked, the odds are that only low
> orbits are at all stable!
[snip]
> Ms/Rs^2 < Mp/Rp^2
Thanks - I like things where I can just plug in the numbers. ;-)
> As far as atmospheric drag is concerned, you want something equivalent
> to 100 miles (600 km) above Earth. Preferrably 1000-2000 km.
Right, I can work that out.
> And you'll *have* to put some engines in there, even if they only
> provide 1/100th g of thrust. Because you *will* need to make orbital
> corrections from time to time.
I was going by GT Starports, which states that ~1/3 of highports *don't*
have maneuver drives and have to pulled about by tugs. However, I may add
some engines anyway.
Thanks again - I'll post my results (and "show my working" ;-) when I'm done
(probably later this week).
John
http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 10:03:35 -0500
From: "Walt Smith" <firelock_ny@hotmail.com>
Subject: Down in the Ratings (was re: Ghost Stories)
It was dim down in the ratings, the young starmen racked close
together during off-watch. Beneath the hushed murmur of a mass
of humans at rest, a few leaned close to hear one junior
spacehand's whispered tale.
"My dad was in the navy during the Fifth, and he heard this from
his Master Chief. And it wasn't no tall tale, every man on the
ship, crew and troop, swore it was true. He thought it was just
on his ship, the _Selkirk_, but later on he found out that near
every ship in the navy has one too."
The young man peered around, looking for superior officers and
other dangerous creatures, then he went on.
"You see, it's the tubes down in the low watch...they're great
now, but they didn't used to be. Used to be you'd put a hundred
men down and only get ninty-nine back...but sometimes the
hundredth man wouldn't be really gone, you see..."
"They started this years ago, maybe even back during the Rule.
The first one you lose...the very first one...you keep him down.
He's dead enough to die, see, but you haven't woken him up so he
can die yet. You take his berth and you tuck it away, behind
a bulkhead or something, so no one will find it. Then you
leave it there."
"Why do they do that?" The first speaker turned to look at the
asker, a wide-eyed electronics tech on his first tour as well.
"My dad didn't know, not for sure. But he tells me how he did
his first time on Low Watch, and how when he woke he could almost
remember a dream...I know, you're not supposed to be able to
dream in low. But he felt it there, chilling through his bones...
a dream of someone screaming in the walls, clawing to get out."
"It's a bulkhead, Kolenda. Not a wall."
The deep, rough voice cut through the spacehands' rapt
attention, and as one they whirled to look at the short,
barrel-chested man who had approached unnoticed. They
all froze with a new kind of foreboding.
"Spreading tall tales during off-watch, eh? Quash the talk
and get some sleep, you'll all need it for your extra maintenance
duty tomorrow."
The young starmen groaned at their Chief's off-hand dispensation
of punishment, but did so under their breaths as they settled
down in their racks.
The Chief shook his head as he stalked silently through the
ratings, watching over his sleeping charges for a few minutes
more before heading back to the bullpen. As he left the racks,
he paused a moment to lay a hand on a cool bulkhead, and thought
of the colder patch you could feel off the port maintenance way
three decks below.
Walt Smith
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 10:09:47 -0500
From: "Michael Daumen" <daumen@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3807
> Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 11:34:21 -0800
> From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
> Subject: Music for BayCon party
>
> We're really starting to gear up the annual bash, but a question has
arrisen..
>
> What music should we put on the CDs we're making? We want good rock music
> with a SF feel to it. So far we have the following selected:
>
> Track Band
> Black Noise (Album) FM
> Here is the News ELO
> Standing on the Moon The Grateful Dead
> Darkstar The Grateful Dead
> Space Oddity David Bowie
> Ashes to Ashes David Bowie
> Starman David Bowie
> Planet Earth Duran Duran
> Major Tom Peter Schilling
> Rocket Man Elton John
> Flash Queen
>
> Any suggestions?
> - --
"The Body Electric" and "2112" by Rush (the latter also suitable for
AynRandCon '01)
"Subterranean Homesick Alien" and "Paranoid Android" by Radiohead from OK
Computer
"True Companion" by Donald Fagen off the Heavy Metal Soundtrack
"905" by the Who. Incidentally much of Who's Next was to be a sci-fi themed
rock opera
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 07:15:57 -0800
From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Ghost stories
At 04:44 AM 03/19/01 -0800, you wrote:
>I remember that book - one of those big books fulla SF paintings that came
>out in the wake of STAR WARS, I should see if the library still has it -
>and I believe /Ambassador/ was sending backwards distress signals too.
Freaky.
And as I recall, the distress signal amounted to: "The wheels! All arounf
us! What are they?"
Then the ship slides back into whatever gate it had partially emerged from.
Great book.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 15:20:12 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Question on Ship pressurization.
John Lambert wrote:
> I'm seeing an image the bridge of a higher tech level ship going
> into combat. The bridge is dark, everyone is buttoned up and
> operating their stations through their suit interfaces. There is
> no sound since the ship is evacuated and all comm is through the
> suit interfaces. It would be a spooky sight especially to someone
> not patched into the comm network.
That's similar to how I have it IMTU[1] except I don't use suit
interfaces ... the main holodynamic controls reconfigure to a
cut-down form suitable for 'thick' fingers. However, one thing I
have on *larger* bridges on military ships (such as the bridge of
an AHL cruiser) is a crash net system: heavy duty canvas-like net
panels strategically placed (floor to ceiling) so that if the
inertial dampers fail any loose objects or personnel don't fly
too far. Some panels are 'fixed' (but can be detached for
maintenance purposes), some are retractable (and drop down
automatically when the captain calls battle stations. Other
large areas of the ship can have these panels, too.
[1] = I did have one group of misfit PCs who didn't follow this
once. During the inevitable emergency decompression there
was total panic as they all left their stations unattended
while struggling to don vacc suits. And one klutz punted
her helmet to the other side of the bridge as she reached
down to grab it! (Their ship didn't have crash nets,
either.)
Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:24:04 +0200
From: Niko Mikkanen <niko.mikkanen@capslock.fi>
Subject: Re: Down in the Ratings (was re: Ghost Stories)
Walt Smith wrote:
> The Chief shook his head as he stalked silently through the
> ratings, watching over his sleeping charges for a few minutes
> more before heading back to the bullpen. As he left the racks,
> he paused a moment to lay a hand on a cool bulkhead, and thought
> of the colder patch you could feel off the port maintenance way
> three decks below.
>
> Walt Smith
Aww, man, that was COLD!
But seriously, I got a shiver from that story. Err, I mean...
I loved that one. Never going to tell it to my players, but just wait
until they do some renovation to their ship (in Space:1889, to be
honest) because the lady's cabin is too cold... :)
GNiko
- --
A synonym is a word you use when you can't spell the other one.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 23:29:33 -0800
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
Subject: RE: Ghost stories
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Rob Myers
Sent: Monday, 19 March 2001 4:54 AM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: Re: Ghost stories
On Monday, March 19, 2001, at 12:44 PM, Kelly St.Clair wrote:
>
> On Mon, 19 Mar 2001 13:45:22 -0800, "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
> wrote:
>
> >I have a book in front on me called Tour of the Universe by Malcolm
Edwards
> >and Robert Holdstock published by Mayflower books in 1980 which has a
> >section called The Haunted Eye: Myths and Legends of Stargates. One of
the
> >items is about a ship IS Ambassador which entered a stargate in 2286AD
and
> >vanished, emerging in 2306 mirrored. Sadly the ship never made it out of
the
> >gate being sucked back in.
>
> I remember that book - one of those big books fulla SF paintings that came
> out in the wake of STAR WARS, I should see if the library still has it -
> and I believe /Ambassador/ was sending backwards distress signals too.
Freaky.
It certainly was. They managed to board it before it got sucked back in to
the stargate. All they found was a patch of hornified (sic?) human skin on
one wall.
The tomb-world, zoo/big-game-world, giant grazers and spider planet are all
great fun. If you ever get a chance to pick up a copy, it's well worth a
read.
- - Rob.
Not quite, the vessel that was borded was the SIS Andromeda the crew of
which vanished suddenly leaving the human skin on a bulkhead.
Antony
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 11:01:43 -0500
From: "Rob Davenport" <rgd@ohio.voyager.net>
Subject: Slightly OT: ringworld xbox pictures
I don't normally monitor 'computer gamer' news[1], but I had been
wondering what the new Microsoft entry into the console game arena
would like like[2], when I saw a related link on a news site I do watch.
I followed it and found these screen shots. Though nowhere near
matching Mr.DeGraff's work IMHO, they are intriguing, and I thought
they might amuse or interest TML members, and maybe inspire an ObTrav
or two. The second picture listed is the most interesting and
the reason for the subject line.
The main story I found - about screenshots available for
the new Microsoft X-Box:
http://www.tech-report.com/news_reply.x/2121/
And the interesting pictures from a game called "Halo".
(I've widened this message so the links don't wrap, sorry if they do.
The descriptions are mine and could easily be technically inaccurate.)
1) tight shot of a figure in a sort of battle dress, riding in a
light, wheeled scout vehicle, with dorsally mounted tribarrel weapon,
apparently driving off a cliff.
Size: (1920x1440, 665KB)
http://www.ascii24.com/24/news/hard/article/2001/03/17/imageview/images640121.jpg.html
2) aforementioned vehicle is now in the process of flipping over,
debris flying, above two short armored humanoid type figures.
The interesting part is the backdrop - the foreground scenary
gives way to what looks like a Ringworld receding off and up
into the distance of a star speckled sky, hazed with blue.
Size: (1920x1440, 381KB)
http://www.ascii24.com/24/news/hard/article/2001/03/17/imageview/images640120.jpg.html
3) Two of the shorter humanoids from picture 2 falling back into
a complex/base.
Size: (1920x1440, 461KB)
http://www.ascii24.com/24/news/hard/article/2001/03/17/imageview/images640122.jpg.html
4) Two greenish, large, partly armored humanoids with alien
weapons stand alert underneath what looks like a very large
holographic display/diagram of the complex complete with
little tags or markers at various locations.
Size: (1920x1440, 448KB)
http://www.ascii24.com/24/news/hard/article/2001/03/17/imageview/images640118.jpg.html
5) "our hero"? the battle-dress figure, running down an 'alien'
corridor, with a BFG blazing away, expended casings streaming
down to his right.
Size: (1920x1440, 404KB)
http://www.ascii24.com/24/news/hard/article/2001/03/17/imageview/images640119.jpg.html
There were more shots of other games, but they were typical
console game stuff that didn't do as much for me as these did.
(If for some reason these pictures are unavailable at the
ASCII24 site (a Japanese computer news site apparently),
email me and I'll send one or more to you.)
ObTrav: um..., would immersive ("VR") computer games in the
57th century be popular, or would the distancing effect (if any)
of having the game on a screen or in a tiny holo-field in front
of the player(s) make them more popular?
(ok, a weak one I know... :)
Rob D.
[1] 'Civilization: Call to Power' and it's ilk are the games I
like when I do play computer games. Occasionally a flight sim.
[2] I have a six-year-old that's already saying how he enjoys
his friend's Nintendo console - I'm only doing my research for
the inevitable future... :)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 09:40:49 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Slightly OT: ringworld xbox pictures
Rob Davenport wrote:
> And the interesting pictures from a game called "Halo".
> (I've widened this message so the links don't wrap, sorry if they do.
> The descriptions are mine and could easily be technically inaccurate.)
>
Halo, which is Bungie's next game (after the release of ONI). Halo is
one kick-ass game. What the screenshots there don't tell you is that
that scout car with three characters in it...are three _players_! Yep
you cooperate...someone drives, someone else shoots and someone else
navigates.
Bungie usually releases level editors. Heh heh heh
Free Trader HALO anyone? ;-)
see: http://halo.bungie.com/
Many screen shots, some movies, and info in english not boxes... ;-)
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 08:44:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Free Trader <freetrader2300@yahoo.com>
Subject: Looking for right time and place
I need some input. I am designing a world ("Sarabus")
that will be central to a campaign involving a group
of PCs who are hired to rescue the kidnapped daughter
of a planetary official. The planet will be similar
to Frank Herbert's "Dune" with a little of John
Norman's "Gor" and the "Arabian Nights" tossed in for
flavoring.
A highly simplified version of the scenario goes
something like this: a corsair band attacks the
settlement and kidnaps the girl. Corsairs sell girl
to slave traders. Slave traders take girl to
"Sarabus" (slave-trading capital of the subsector).
PCs have to track down girl and rescue her.
My question: what is the most appropriate region of
space and era for this sort of adventure. My own
thoughts lean toward the New Era (no Imperial Navy to
suppress the slave trade and plenty of lower tech
worlds in need of human labor) since I could pretty
much stick "Sarabus" in a pocket empire anywhere in
the Wilds. However, I'd be very interested in
alternate settings (i.e., maybe Spinward Marches or
The Beyond during the Rebellion or even
Pre-Rebellion?) Thanks in advance.
=====
- - "Free Trader" <freetrader2300@yahoo.com>
Visit Free Trader's Traveller Pages:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dunes/8426/traveller/
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3808
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3809
Date: | 3/19/01 5:06:50 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Monday, March 19 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3809
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3807
RE: Looking for right time and place for Slave trading
RE: Looking for right time and place for Slave trading
Urban Legends & the Paranormal Essay
Re: Calculating satellite orbits
Re: Laser drill
RE: Calculating satellite orbits
RE: Music for BayCon party
Re: Ghost Stories, One for Real
Re: Music for BayCon party
racial sensitivity
Re: Ghost Stories, One for Real
The Truth About Penguins
Re: Ghost Stories, One for Real
Re: Legends...
Re: Slightly OT: ringworld xbox pictures
Big Books That Came Out In The Wake Of STAR WARS
Alternity/Dragon question
Re: Alternity/Dragon question
Re: Alternity/Dragon question
Re: Alternity/Dragon question
RE: Cutter Books
Re: The Truth About Penguins
Ghost Story: the Jinxed Scout/Courier
Re: Urban Legends & the Paranormal Essay
Re: Military Doctrine and practices
re: Triumphant return
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 09:47:08 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3807
Michael Daumen wrote:
>> Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 11:34:21 -0800
>> From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
>> Subject: Music for BayCon party
> rock opera
Hawkwind..._anything_ by Hawkwind ;-)
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 16:44:55 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Looking for right time and place for Slave trading
> My question: what is the most appropriate region of
> space and era for this sort of adventure. My own
> thoughts lean toward the New Era (no Imperial Navy to
> suppress the slave trade and plenty of lower tech
> worlds in need of human labor) since I could pretty
> much stick "Sarabus" in a pocket empire anywhere in
> the Wilds. However, I'd be very interested in
> alternate settings (i.e., maybe Spinward Marches or
> The Beyond during the Rebellion or even
> Pre-Rebellion?) Thanks in advance.
Don't forget extra-Imperial territory. There are plenty of human societies
in the OTU that are not the Zhos, Sollies or 3I. Perhaps something trailing
of the Crucis Margin?
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 09:01:23 -0800
From: William Lane <wlane@Asera.com>
Subject: RE: Looking for right time and place for Slave trading
Yeah in my campain worlds outside of of main political regions have their
own laws. Slavery does happen on some planets. Infact the last adventure for
the party was to rescue a young lady from slavery such as you described.
Very simular to your adventure.
hasta
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jones, Dean [mailto:Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com]
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 8:45 AM
To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'
Subject: RE: Looking for right time and place for Slave trading
> My question: what is the most appropriate region of
> space and era for this sort of adventure. My own
> thoughts lean toward the New Era (no Imperial Navy to
> suppress the slave trade and plenty of lower tech
> worlds in need of human labor) since I could pretty
> much stick "Sarabus" in a pocket empire anywhere in
> the Wilds. However, I'd be very interested in
> alternate settings (i.e., maybe Spinward Marches or
> The Beyond during the Rebellion or even
> Pre-Rebellion?) Thanks in advance.
Don't forget extra-Imperial territory. There are plenty of human societies
in the OTU that are not the Zhos, Sollies or 3I. Perhaps something trailing
of the Crucis Margin?
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 11:07:20 -0600
From: "Donavan L" <dlambertus@dtgnet.com>
Subject: Urban Legends & the Paranormal Essay
>Consider and discuss:
>Recently, we've seen an upswing in the number of shows/books/movies on the
>paranormal. What sort of ghost stories do they tell in the Third Imperium?
>What urban legends make the rounds time and again?
Cool! I'll start work on it as soon as I get the chance (although I've
already seen a bunch of good ones on the list). Happily, urban legends &
paranormal stuff are kind of a side hobby for me, so I've got some ideas
brewing.
Yet another silly question - somebody in the discussion about "seeded" jump
drives mentioned "The Big Bad Guys at the Center of the Galaxy" or
somesuch...whats that all about?
Cheers!
Donavan L.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 09:28:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Calculating satellite orbits
Leonard Erickson writes:
> As far as atmospheric drag is concerned, you want something equivalent
> to 100 miles (600 km) above Earth. Preferrably 1000-2000 km.
Um...100 miles is 160 km.
>
> And you'll *have* to put some engines in there, even if they only
> provide 1/100th g of thrust. Because you *will* need to make orbital
> corrections from time to time.
.01 Gs might be overkill.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 09:29:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Laser drill
Antti Lahtinen writes:
> IIRC, the laser did not actually melt of vaporize the rock, but
> actually vaporized a thin layer of water in the surface of the
> rock (small amount of water mist was introduced with the
> nitrogen jet).
Interesting. Certainly, a bit of water will make porous rock easier to break apart.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:02:19 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Calculating satellite orbits
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G}) wrote:
> As far as atmospheric drag is concerned, you want something equivalent
> to 100 miles (600 km) above Earth.
:-o
So, Leonard, do you want to work for NASA? I hear there's an
opening on the next Martian probe team. :-^
(Sorry, I couldn't resist the dig.)
Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 10:05:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
Subject: RE: Music for BayCon party
On Mon, 19 Mar 2001, Jeff wrote:
> Aww. No fun.
Have you ever really listened to the lyrics and story of the Kilroy album?
It's um, really kind of racist. The "roboto" pictures creep me out. It's
also really anti-technological.
I find it pretty offensive. I wouldn't suggest that it shouldn't exist,
but I really don't want to play it at a party that I'm helping with. If
you insist, I'm sure I can find some Japanese pop that says unflattering
things about Americans somewhere, though.
I used to like Styx, too. (pout)
> Subject: Re: Music for BayCon party
>
> From: Jeff <jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu>
>
> >How about "Domo aragato (sp?) Mr.Roboto"
> >
>
> Um, let me think about that.....
>
> I don't think so!
>
> Kiri-chan
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..." -- X-JAPAN
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 12:17:59 -0600
From: "Shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Ghost Stories, One for Real
This occured in the 1850's or 60's I believe, my source was the
National Geographic Book: Men, Ships, and The Sea
not sure of the name of the ship, it might have been the Great
Western of the Great Eastern, it was said that a worker and his
assistant were sealed up between some bulkheads by accident.
and left there, it was said you could hear them rapping on the hull,
but it was put off as loose gear or some such... years later when
the ship was broken up by the scrappers, they found 2 bodies
between the bulkheads.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 12:28:02 -0600
From: "Moody, Danny" <vargr1@sapphire.jcn1.com>
Subject: Re: Music for BayCon party
>"905" by the Who. Incidentally much of Who's Next was to be a sci-fi themed
>rock opera
Also, for a bit of techno-style music, check out DarkUFO. You can download mp3s of their pieces.
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/139/darkufo.html?lang=eng
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 10:44:07 -0800
From: "Jeff" <jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu>
Subject: racial sensitivity
Yeah, as you pointed out, negative American references are not unknown to
the Japanese. And we chinks certainly don't get off scot free from anyone,
though I'd have to say for most of history (As well as right now), we
haven't thought much of anyone else.
However, people have become *way* to sensative to racial issues, in the
United States anyway. Whether or not they have a point, (In an ideal world,
there would be no racial division) where increased sensativity was
desireable, now it has gone quite over board. Racist is an accusation on the
level of communist during the fifties, and increasing demands for
recognizable diversity merely serve to divide the nation into ever
increasingly communities smaller in size and larger in number. I realize I
fall into the minority on this issue, wishing to marginalize racial
affiliation rather than tout it (Probably a result of being half the
freaking world, in greater or lesser parts), but the way things are going
don't bode well.
Jeff Yin
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 19:29:22 -0000
From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Ghost Stories, One for Real
From: "Shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net>
"...not sure of the name of the ship, it might have been the Great
Western of the Great Eastern, it was said that a worker and his
assistant were sealed up between some bulkheads by accident.
and left there, it was said you could hear them rapping on the hull,
but it was put off as loose gear or some such... years later when
the ship was broken up by the scrappers, they found 2 bodies
between the bulkheads."
Gentlemen,
Was able to wheel over to a keyboard and check out the list today, boy
am I ever missing some fun topics.
The ship mentioned above was the "Great Eastern" built in the mid
1850's by Brunel in the UK. The body of a riveter and his assistant were
found between the hulls when the ship was broken up in the late 1880's.
The ship itself was notorious. It took months to launch; sideways
believe it or not, and was the biggest ship built at the time. Brunel
unfortunately pushed the TL envelope a little too far for the time and also
crammed it full of every technical geegaw of the day. It would make a great
Space:1889 vessel. It had both propellers and sidewheels, several different
types of boilers, and a room on gimbels to prevent seasickness. There was a
boiler explosion during it's sea trials and many other accidents during it's
life. She was badly underpowered, too large, and retrofitted and/or rebuilt
several times.
Although intended for the India trade, hence the name, it never worked
out on that route. The only use it was put to was the laying of oceanic
telegraph cables; it being the only ship at the time large enough to carry
the necessary mileage of wire.
Larsen
OBtrav: What sort of "white elephants" have been built in the OTU? Ships
intended for one use, found unfit, and then used successfully for an equally
important task totally unrelated to their original design?
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 14:49:06 -0600
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net>
Subject: The Truth About Penguins
At 12:42 PM 3/18/01 +0100, you wrote:
>http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20010318&mode=
>
>* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
>| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
>| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
>* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
>
Sir:
Nothing on the subject of peguins is off topic on TML.
If anything, the penguin is the central component to the mystery of why the
Solomani were so slow to develop spaceflight and the jump drive.
The penguin as we know was Geneered by Grandfather as a means to suppress
the growth adn technological progress of Terran Man. The individual penguin
brain, while unimpressive, served as a component of a group mind which in
turn functioned on Terra as a False Ruling Conscioness, what was otherwise
called "God."
The FRC, being physically isolated on the Antartic continent, would send
psionic messages to "prophets" who would in turn have their respective
followers kill each other in progressively bloodier wars.
It was when Claw and Beak disease was accidentely introduced to the penguin
population by a British naval expedition ("Jenkins, STOP THAT!") that the
FRC became too weak to influence human affairs. Thus allowing the Solomani
to expand into deep space, etc.
Les
=======================================================
Objects on screen may be more hostile than they appear.
=======================================================
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 14:53:14 -0600
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net>
Subject: Re: Ghost Stories, One for Real
At 07:29 PM 3/19/01 -0000, Larsen wrote:
> >
>OBtrav: What sort of "white elephants" have been built in the OTU? Ships
>intended for one use, found unfit, and then used successfully for an equally
>important task totally unrelated to their original design?
Like the GREAT TRAILING, a very large vessel with great open internal
spaces built for trade with the K'Kree?
Les
=======================================================
Objects on screen may be more hostile than they appear.
=======================================================
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 16:37:35 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
Subject: Re: Legends...
On Sun, 18 Mar 2001 10:06:18 -0500 (EST), Kurt Feltenberger
<kurt@blazenet.net> wrote:
>Here is a "Ghost Story" that I sent to the list last year.
>In one of my current PBEMs, the characters have encountered something out
>of Zhodani legend, their 'Devil' if you will...
>Begin passage:
Kurt, if you can tweak this into something that resembles a personal
journal, ship's log, or diary or something like that, rather than an
interview, and fake up some circumstances under which it might be "found",
I'll add this to The Lost Diaries at Freelance Traveller...
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
(ILink: news without the abuse. Ask via email.)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 16:52:35 -0500
From: "Rob Davenport" <rgd@ohio.voyager.net>
Subject: Re: Slightly OT: ringworld xbox pictures
On 19 Mar 2001, at 9:40, Bruce Johnson wrote:
> Rob Davenport wrote:
>
>
> > And the interesting pictures from a game called "Halo".
> > (I've widened this message so the links don't wrap, sorry if they do.
> > The descriptions are mine and could easily be technically inaccurate.)
> >
>
> Halo, which is Bungie's next game (after the release of ONI). Halo is
> one kick-ass game. What the screenshots there don't tell you is that
> that scout car with three characters in it...are three _players_! Yep
> you cooperate...someone drives, someone else shoots and someone else
> navigates.
>
> Bungie usually releases level editors. Heh heh heh
>
> Free Trader HALO anyone? ;-)
>
> see: http://halo.bungie.com/
>
> Many screen shots, some movies, and info in english not boxes... ;-)
<doffs hat> Thank you, sir. Glad to know the great people on the list come
through again. (English is much preferred to boxes - though for some reason
I saw the Japanese - not that I can *read* it. :)
Rob
- ---
Rob Davenport 0301 C438875-B 713
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 14:13:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>
Subject: Big Books That Came Out In The Wake Of STAR WARS
This comment made me remember a particular artist
whose work I admired. His name was Peter Elson and
signed all of his stuff with a PE. He was in several
books and I always wondered if he had a compilation
book of his stuff out there somewhere.
I've just about got me collection of Syd Meade art
nailed down and Peter Elson is next on my list (Then I
go after Ron Cobb, Katsuhiro Otomo, and Masamune
Shiro). If anyone knows any information on this guy,
please pass it on.
__________________________________________________
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Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:07:02 -0500
From: knightsky@juno.com
Subject: Alternity/Dragon question
Does anyone know what issue of Dragon that the Traveller/Alternity
conversion article appeared in?
Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 14:37:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
Subject: Re: Alternity/Dragon question
On Mon, 19 Mar 2001 knightsky@juno.com wrote:
> Does anyone know what issue of Dragon that the Traveller/Alternity
> conversion article appeared in?
Alternity as in John Ford's stories?
ooh ooh ooh ooh....
kirichan
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..." -- X-JAPAN
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:01:17 -0500
From: knightsky@juno.com
Subject: Re: Alternity/Dragon question
On Mon, 19 Mar 2001 14:37:10 -0800 (PST) Kiri Aradia Morgan
<tiamat@tsoft.com> writes:
> On Mon, 19 Mar 2001 knightsky@juno.com wrote:
>
> > Does anyone know what issue of Dragon that the Traveller/Alternity
> > conversion article appeared in?
>
> Alternity as in John Ford's stories?
>
> ooh ooh ooh ooh....
Err... actually, 'Alternity' as in the SFRPG that WOTC put out a couple
of years ago, and has let die on the vine (I recently picked up the
Player's Handbook for 1/2 price).
Still, it was probably worth it just to have you make the "ooh ooh ooh
ooh" noises... :-)
Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:10:50 -0600
From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" <sdaniels@playnet.com>
Subject: Re: Alternity/Dragon question
Um, Alternity *was* a Traveller conversion.
:-P
- -bloo
knightsky@juno.com wrote:
> Does anyone know what issue of Dragon that the Traveller/Alternity
> conversion article appeared in?
>
> Perry
> "In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:28:41 -0500
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com>
Subject: RE: Cutter Books
Picked Up Modular Cutter on Saturday. Excellent! Several nits, which I'll
post at SJGames, not here. Well worth the price.
Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Loren Wiseman
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 3:00 PM
To: traveller@ient.com
Subject: Cutter Books
I am reliably informed that these were drop-shipped to the distribution
chain, and should be arriving at your US FLGS any time between this weekend
and next weekend. We get ours (for W23) Monday.
Go look at the cool Jesse art on the cover and inside.
<fnord>
Jesse: Are you sure the hypno-coding was properly imbedded in the dot
screens this time? Last time, the "Buy Me NOW!" subliminal embed was so
subtle as to be only 23% effective, and we don't want that happening again.
</fnord>
I've been trying to get this book published for 10 years, and finally did
it.
Loren Wiseman
Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
http://jtas.sjgames.com/
SJ Games
lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
(512) 447-7866 VOX
(512) 447-1144 FAX
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 00:49:09 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: The Truth About Penguins
Leslie Bates wrote:
> If anything, the penguin is the central component to the mystery of why the
> Solomani were so slow to develop spaceflight and the jump drive.
<snip>
ROTFLMAO!
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 16:00:05 -0800
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
Subject: Ghost Story: the Jinxed Scout/Courier
So there's this Type S, standard and unremarkable in every way, except
maybe some yard worker gets killed in a freak accident during
construction. They send her out on her first survey mission - and she
comes back a few months later with the quarantine signal on repeat. Turns
out that the crew caught something really nasty on an otherwise beautiful
T-prime world and the last survivor just managed to get the ship into jump
and set the warning beacons before he dissolved into goo as well.
Well, they give the ship a thorough decontam and send it out again, this
time on courier duty. And inside of a year, some pirate or a Joe
destroyer, depending on who you ask, blows a hole clean through it. All
hands lost.
So they patch her up and put in another crew. And this time, one of the
guys snaps two months into the tour and kills all his mates, real
messy-like, then continues the mission on his own. He even makes log
entries like they're still alive. A year later, he finally puts in at a
base for annual maintenance. And if you think a Type S smells bad after a
normal cruise, just imagine what this one was like...
Well, that was that. No matter how many times they changed the scrubbers,
people still said the ship smelled like death. No one would take her
out. In the end, the Service had to scrap her. At least, that's what they
say. Starships aren't cheap, you know. Maybe they just gave her a new
number, transferred her across the sector, and handed her off to another
poor set of saps.
Say, is that your Type S sitting in Bay 94? The one with the fresh coat of
chameleon paint? She's a real beauty, she is.
- --------------
Kelly St.Clair "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org Right here in fair Verona
With a capital T that rhymes with D
That stands for Duel..."
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:08:08 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Urban Legends & the Paranormal Essay
Donavan L wrote:
> Yet another silly question - somebody in the discussion about "seeded" jump
> drives mentioned "The Big Bad Guys at the Center of the Galaxy" or
> somesuch...whats that all about?
One of two possibilities.
1) DGP published an adventure or magazine article introducing 'The Sparklers', supposedly some nasty thing that the Zhodani disturbed on their Core expeditions. At the end of the DGP line they were coming to get us, and the Zhos were very, very sorry. Then GDW released TNE and blew all of that stuf into non-canon status. They were never much more than a replacemnt for the Ancients, which, alas, due to Secret of the Ancients, apparently everyone knew about and left no mystery in the universe.
2) One of the TML members (Hans Ranke perhaps?) has, in HTU, the 'Baddies from the Core' an extremely powerful race who, in fact, _created_ jump space for some use known only to them. Grandfather discovered the transportation uses of jumpspace only accidentally. After exploiting it for quite some time Gramps discovered that this use really pissed the BFTC, who are coming to our podunk end of _their_ galaxy to deal with this headache. Gramps freaks, tried to make everyone stop using Jump Drive. His kids, naturally, took this all the wrong way and thus started the Final War. Gramps kills all his kids, scatters humans all over the place and carefully seeds their systems with working 'wrecked alien technology' jump drives, and scoots into his own pocket universe to hide.
This way, when the BFTC come a' knockin, all us dumb humans are sitting there with jump drives in our hands and a dumbfounded look on our face, not unlike a deer in the headlights. After the dust, and knocking, banging and screaming subside, Gramps will poke his head out of his pocket universe to see what's left.
I like the second one much better.
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:03:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Military Doctrine and practices
>From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com>
>From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
>
>>The normal people came out killers.. the doctor came out normal. Think
>>about it.. :)
>
>His name wasn't Lecter, was it?
It's more likely his name was Mengele. Lecter was just a fictional
character.
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
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Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:05:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com>
Subject: re: Triumphant return
>From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
>Hi everyone, I'm back. Can someone fill me in on current topics, queries
>flamewars etc?
Mostly, we've been talking about what a loser that Dean Jones is for
disappearing.
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
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Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
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------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3809
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3810
Date: | 3/20/01 1:40:47 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Tuesday, March 20 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3810
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Another Ghost Ship, but this one modern
Re: Alternity/Dragon question
Some Traveller Interesting Sites
Re: racial sensitivity
Intruder....
Re: Calculating satellite orbits
Ghost stories
Re: Alternity/Dragon question
Re: racial sensitivity
Re: Urban Legends & the Paranormal Essay
RE: Music for BayCon party
Re: Calculating satellite orbits
Re: Alternity/Dragon question
Re: Question on Ship pressurization.
Re: Ghost Story: the Jinxed Scout/Courier
Re: Looking for right time and place for Slave trading
Re: racial sensitivity
RE: Need a Subcontractor?
RE: Ghost Story: the Jinxed Scout/Courier
Re: Alternity/Dragon question
Re: Calculating satellite orbits
Re: Calculating satellite orbits
RE: Ghost Story
Re: Urban Legends & the Paranormal Essay
RE: Triumphant return
Re: Calculating satellite orbits
Re: Calculating satellite orbits
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 19:18:39 -0600
From: "Shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net>
Subject: Another Ghost Ship, but this one modern
friend of mine runs a lot of modern horror games, and he ran a
game of Chill at an area convention last year, where the players got
to deal with a ghost ship on lake michigan, that being the Edmund
Fitzgerald...
this came off really well, as my friend worked with a guy who lived
near some locks, and had gotten a set of pictures of the Fitz
passing through the locks, in the last one you see an officer
standing at the railing, and just under the deck on the side you can
read the ships name clearly.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:31:42 -0500
From: knightsky@juno.com
Subject: Re: Alternity/Dragon question
> Um, Alternity *was* a Traveller conversion.
But that's what you say about *all* other SFRPGs! ;-)
Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."
________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:38:23 -0500
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net>
Subject: Some Traveller Interesting Sites
>The first Air Force Space Aggressor Squadron:
>http://www.spacedaily.com/news/milspace-00q.html
>
>And to followup the last one; here's the Space Command home page:
>http://www.spacecom.af.mil/usspace/index.htm
>The Seven Best SciFi Films of all times... your opinion may vary.
>http://www.starport.com/opinionscolumns/gentrylee/gentry_on_film_010108.htm
l
Dan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:56:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
Subject: Re: racial sensitivity
On Mon, 19 Mar 2001, Jeff wrote:
> Yeah, as you pointed out, negative American references are not unknown to
> the Japanese. And we chinks certainly don't get off scot free from anyone,
> though I'd have to say for most of history (As well as right now), we
> haven't thought much of anyone else.
You can call yourself that if you want to, but I won't.
I just don't feel obliged to "appreciate" Japan-bashing. I don't care if
you like that song or not, you're entitled to your opinion, but I find the
Kilroy album rather offensive and I'm entitled to my opinion as well.
I wouldn't turn off the radio if it happened to come on, but if I get a
vote as to whether it's played at a party my group is helping Doug Berry
put on, my vote will be "no".
Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..." -- X-JAPAN
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:10:42 +1100
From: Rob <rhoughto@one.net.au>
Subject: Intruder....
This was bound to happen eventually...but there is a game under
construction as an open project...I think it would appeal to the average
Traveller player...and there are probably people on this list who can
help with coding, graphics and general ideas generation...(If Jesse
could do some of the game graphics it would be sooooooo cool... :-) )
http://www.intruder.com/
Other Rob
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:20:35 -0600
From: JR Holmes <jrholmes@wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Calculating satellite orbits
On Mon, 19 Mar 2001 14:55:31 GMT, "John G. Wood"
<elvwood@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>JR Holmes <jrholmes@wi.rr.com> wrote:
>> How about using something like the halo orbits that the Russian
>> Molniya (spelling?) satellites use? They use a large eliptical orbit
>> with the apogee arranged to fall above the preferred downport. That
>> apogee tracks around to follow the downport as it moves. For that
>> reason, the satellites spend about 75%(?) of their orbital time above
>> the desired location.
>
>Nice idea - do you know of any formulae I could use?
No idea. After about a half hour running through the results of a
Google search I was barely able to confirm my vague memories. The
Molniya satellites date back to the 70s and there isn't too much on
the Web in the way of easily findable details.
Though there may be some references to this unusual orbit in a orbits
text, I have no specifics for you.
- --
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:28:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com>
Subject: Ghost stories
Great ghost stories, sophs. I'll see if I can record a traditional Vargr
tale (no pun) from Rrafroughz tonight.
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
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Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:33:29 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net>
Subject: Re: Alternity/Dragon question
knightsky@juno.com wrote
> Does anyone know what issue of Dragon that the Traveller/Alternity
> conversion article appeared in?
It was in issue #270 (April 2000) p 96 - 104 by Stephen Kenson.
The article is OK but not great.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:42:14 -0800
From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: racial sensitivity
At 05:56 PM 03/19/01 -0800, you wrote:
>I wouldn't turn off the radio if it happened to come on, but if I get a
>vote as to whether it's played at a party my group is helping Doug Berry
>put on, my vote will be "no".
"Mr. Roboto" is out.
We'll play the SF Giants fight song in its place. :)
Joking!! I was joking!
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:47:07 -0800
From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Urban Legends & the Paranormal Essay
At 11:07 AM 03/19/01 -0600, you wrote:
>Yet another silly question - somebody in the discussion about "seeded" jump
>drives mentioned "The Big Bad Guys at the Center of the Galaxy" or
>somesuch...whats that all about?
Comes from a series of clues in the MegaTraveller adventure _Knightfall_
and the "Empress Wave from TNE.
In short, it was hinted that there is a massively powerful force/race/fast
food franchise living in/near the galactic core, and that this group had
previously inhabited the known space region. And they might be coming back.
Never fully developed, and most of the concepts have officially been
dropped.
- --
Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"I am the penguin bold! We sailed the sea, to tringalee,
in search of spanish gold" - The Magic Pudding - Norman Lindsay
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 22:02:42 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: RE: Music for BayCon party
Jens wrote:
>Well, I'll take a few more looks in my shelf. This time in the electronic
part
>of it (where most of my records are):
>
>Anything by S.P.O.C.K (synthpop from Sweden, mostly Star Trek-themed)
Wow, I've actually heard them!
"Never, never, never trust a Klingon... You will never forget it.
Never, never, never trust a Klingon... You will always regret it."
I may have gotten that wrong, but it's been a long time, so I apologize. :)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:17:01 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Calculating satellite orbits
In mail you write:
> Leonard Erickson writes:
>
>> As far as atmospheric drag is concerned, you want something equivalent
>> to 100 miles (600 km) above Earth. Preferrably 1000-2000 km.
>
> Um...100 miles is 160 km.
Doh!
>> And you'll *have* to put some engines in there, even if they only
>> provide 1/100th g of thrust. Because you *will* need to make orbital
>> corrections from time to time.
>
> .01 Gs might be overkill.
Not orbiting a tidelocked world.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:32:51 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Alternity/Dragon question
In mail you write:
> On Mon, 19 Mar 2001 knightsky@juno.com wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know what issue of Dragon that the Traveller/Alternity
>> conversion article appeared in?
>
> Alternity as in John Ford's stories?
>
> ooh ooh ooh ooh....
Probably not. But I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who remembers them.
I've been tempted to put the orange "arrowhead A" on stuff if I ever
run a game. And see if anybody notices. :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:41:57 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Question on Ship pressurization.
In mail you write:
> The most major drawback of evacuation is repressurization.
> Where do you get or store the air ?
>
> In military _aircraft_ it's not a problem, you just repressurize from out
> side.
A spaceship will have *lots of storage for air. It has to even if it
recycles.
One method might be to simply liquefy the air. Given the volumes of LH2
on most ships, you can liquefy a *lot* of air at the cost of vaporizing
some LH2. And then the coolers can re-liquefy the hydrogen at your
leisure. Assuming you don't need it for something else, anyway.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:45:48 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Ghost Story: the Jinxed Scout/Courier
In mail you write:
<snip>
> Say, is that your Type S sitting in Bay 94? The one with the fresh coat of
> chameleon paint? She's a real beauty, she is.
That's *evil*...
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:22:11 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Looking for right time and place for Slave trading
In mail you write:
> Yeah in my campain worlds outside of of main political regions have their
> own laws. Slavery does happen on some planets. Infact the last adventure for
> the party was to rescue a young lady from slavery such as you described.
> Very simular to your adventure.
There was some discussion of a world with a very strange (by our
standards) culture that included some "slavery" a few months back.
Anybody have my posts in that thread handy? If not, where are the
archives, so I can try to find them.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 21:50:09 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: racial sensitivity
On 03/19/01 at 06:42 PM, Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> said:
>At 05:56 PM 03/19/01 -0800, you wrote:
>>I wouldn't turn off the radio if it happened to come on, but if I get a
>>vote as to whether it's played at a party my group is helping Doug Berry
>>put on, my vote will be "no".
>"Mr. Roboto" is out.
>We'll play the SF Giants fight song in its place. :)
Followed by Doug doing a rousing redition of "Casey at the Bat!"
If you aren't serious about the SF Giant's fight song, consider "Centerfield" by John Fogerty as an alternative. <g>
Eris,
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:48:20 -0800
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
Subject: RE: Need a Subcontractor?
I used to think the Donosev was the ugliest ship ever designed, then I
beheld an Antiama class fleet carrier. The configuration put me in mind of a
childs building blocks. (I'd call it an unstreamlined slab configuration. It
is one of the few designs that seems to be streamlined for running in
reverse (based on the Paul Jaquays illustration in Fighting Ships, perhaps
fore and aft were reversed in the drawing?)
Perhaps other members of the list would like to comment on this design.
If the design is unstreamlined what use are the fuel scoops?
Antony
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:48:23 -0800
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
Subject: RE: Ghost Story: the Jinxed Scout/Courier
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Kelly St.Clair
Sent: Monday, 19 March 2001 4:00 PM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: Ghost Story: the Jinxed Scout/Courier
So there's this Type S, standard and unremarkable in every way, except
maybe some yard worker gets killed in a freak accident during
construction. They send her out on her first survey mission - and she
comes back a few months later with the quarantine signal on repeat. Turns
out that the crew caught something really nasty on an otherwise beautiful
T-prime world and the last survivor just managed to get the ship into jump
and set the warning beacons before he dissolved into goo as well.
Well, they give the ship a thorough decontam and send it out again, this
time on courier duty. And inside of a year, some pirate or a Joe
destroyer, depending on who you ask, blows a hole clean through it. All
hands lost.
So they patch her up and put in another crew. And this time, one of the
guys snaps two months into the tour and kills all his mates, real
messy-like, then continues the mission on his own. He even makes log
entries like they're still alive. A year later, he finally puts in at a
base for annual maintenance. And if you think a Type S smells bad after a
normal cruise, just imagine what this one was like...
Well, that was that. No matter how many times they changed the scrubbers,
people still said the ship smelled like death. No one would take her
out. In the end, the Service had to scrap her. At least, that's what they
say. Starships aren't cheap, you know. Maybe they just gave her a new
number, transferred her across the sector, and handed her off to another
poor set of saps.
Say, is that your Type S sitting in Bay 94? The one with the fresh coat of
chameleon paint? She's a real beauty, she is.
- --------------
Kelly St.Clair
Would that be the type S named "Christine?"
Antony
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 23:13:58 -0500
From: knightsky@juno.com
Subject: Re: Alternity/Dragon question
On Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:33:29 -0900 Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net> writes:
> knightsky@juno.com wrote
>
> > Does anyone know what issue of Dragon that the Traveller/Alternity
> > conversion article appeared in?
>
> It was in issue #270 (April 2000) p 96 - 104 by Stephen Kenson.
> The article is OK but not great.
Thanks for the info.
Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 07:32:52 +0200 (EET)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: Re: Calculating satellite orbits
On Mon, 19 Mar 2001, JR Holmes wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Mar 2001 14:55:31 GMT, "John G. Wood"
> <elvwood@ntlworld.com> wrote:
[Molniya]
> >Nice idea - do you know of any formulae I could use?
> No idea. After about a half hour running through the results of a
> Google search I was barely able to confirm my vague memories. The
> Molniya satellites date back to the 70s and there isn't too much on
> the Web in the way of easily findable details.
There is a lot of material on space tech books, however.
Molniya orbits use the fact that orbits circle around the Earth more than
one way, that is, the orientation of the orbit changes, not just the
position of the satellite on the orbit.
On certain inclinations (inclination is the angle between the orbit and
equator) the speed of orientation change is just so much that the orbit
orientation makes two rounds around the Earth in 24 hours.
Molniyas use this fact and a highly elliptic orbit to remain long times
(twice a day) over the target area.
There are, or at least have been some spy satellites which have used the
same orbit. There are some problems with Molniya orbits: the satellite
must be tracked, there must be more than one satellite for all-time
coverage and the distance to the satellite is quite long (and changes
quite fast at some point). They are still more useful on high (or low)
latitides than geosynchronous orbits. The antenna would have to point
quite low. (Here in southern Finland, ~60 N, satellite tv dishes point to
some 15 degrees up from the horizon. More north, they must be pointed
lower. Obstacles, of which atmosphere is not the least start to get in the
way).
> Though there may be some references to this unusual orbit in a orbits
> text, I have no specifics for you.
I can dig up some formulae for this. Warning, they are a bit hairy...
(My course book on the subject was
Peter Fortescue &amp; John Stark:
Spacecraft Systems Engineering, Wiley 1995.
It has some information on the subject, but it is not presented in an easy
form.)
- --
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 06:49:51
From: "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Calculating satellite orbits
>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
>
>I can dig up some formulae for this. Warning, they are a bit hairy...
>
>(My course book on the subject was
>Peter Fortescue &amp; John Stark:
>Spacecraft Systems Engineering, Wiley 1995.
>
>It has some information on the subject, but it is not presented in an easy
>form.)
>
I agree with Mikko, it is hairy.
Until several years ago, Teledyne-Brown published an annual review called
"The Soviet Year in Space"; the author was Nick Johnson who is now at
NASA/JSC. The books reviewed Soviet space system especially changes or
additions during that year. There was good coverage of the Molniya
constellation.
The Molniyas have a 12-hour period and retrace the same groundtrack and
"hang" in the same position in the sky for use with fixed ground antennae.
This was accomplished by using a highly eccentric orbit to let the
satellites "hang" near apogee for extended periods. The orbit plane
maintains its position relative to the Earth as the Earth orbits the sun by
selecting an inclination that, at that period, results in the correct drift
rate the orbit plane in Right Ascension. Left to itself, an orbit plane
would remain fixed in inertial space like a gyroscope. Perturbations caused
mainly by the "pear" shape of the Earth cause the orbit plane to precess or
rotate at a predetermined rate around the Earth. By choosing the right
period and inclination, you can have the orbit plane drift at a rate, for
example, to keep the plane pointed at the sun (sun synchronous) like many
spy satellites.
Now, in answer to the original question: for a tidely locked planet, you
would need to choose a period and inclination that would cause the orbit
plane to precess through 360 degrees once in the planet's year. The drift
rate will be determined by the perturbations caused by the planet's shape.
It would be easiest to assume the same perturbations as the Earth. (I can
find the equations for that case.) The advantage in choosing a highly
eccentric orbit like the Molniyas, is that you can select the arguement of
perigee to make the station hang for extended periods over any desired
latitude, not just the equator. If the orbit is too eccentric, however, the
station can go high enough to be perturbed or captured by the sun. The
orbit can also be orientated at any desired longitude relative to the sun.
Thus, you have an almost geostationary station over any desired location on
the planet. That was the goal of the Molniya program.
John
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 19:42:45 +1200
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: Ghost Story
OK, people,
I love all these ghost stories.
I think they need a place on the web for general reference.
I will ask each individual author before putting anything of their's up on
the web, and make sure it is properly attributed, but can I get a show of
hands from people in general if they think it's a good idea ?
And if so, we'll need a title for the page, like "Tales from Witchspace" or
something.
Feel free to make suggestions.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 23:44:06 -0800
From: "Pronto" <pronto_r031@telus.net>
Subject: Re: Urban Legends & the Paranormal Essay
From: "Bruce Johnson" <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
<Setup snipped>
> This way, when the BFTC come a' knockin, all us dumb humans are sitting
there with jump drives in our hands and a dumbfounded look on our face, not
unlike a deer in the headlights. After the dust, and knocking, banging and
screaming subside, Gramps will poke his head out of his pocket universe to
see what's left.
>
> I like the second one much better.
> --
I love the second one! It makes sense, explains everything and sets up some
wonderful gaming.
Pronto
AKA Brian Taylor
Next year, at Burning Man!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 07:58:07 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Triumphant return
>
> >From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
>
> >Hi everyone, I'm back. Can someone fill me in on current
> topics, queries
> >flamewars etc?
>
> Mostly, we've been talking about what a loser that Dean Jones is for
> disappearing.
>
LOL, cheers, Glenn. Actually, I spent some time with my Traveller-loving
girlfriend. I like to think that she shows this interest in Trav for it's
own sake, not just to humour me :)
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:04:26 +0200
From: Niko Mikkanen <niko.mikkanen@capslock.fi>
Subject: Re: Calculating satellite orbits
John Lambert wrote:
> example, to keep the plane pointed at the sun (sun synchronous) like many
> spy satellites.
> John
AH-HA! So there _IS_ life on sun! Why else would they point spy
satellites at it?
Ok, ok, I'll shut up now...
GNiko
- --
The best way to save face is to keep the lower half closed.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:39:21 +0200 (EET)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: Re: Calculating satellite orbits
On Tue, 20 Mar 2001, Niko Mikkanen wrote:
> John Lambert wrote:
> > example, to keep the plane pointed at the sun (sun synchronous) like many
> > spy satellites.
> AH-HA! So there _IS_ life on sun! Why else would they point spy
> satellites at it?
No, they point some point of the satellite to the sun all the time.
This way they see the ground every day at the same time, so the shadows
are the same -> easier to compare. Also, noon or sunset or sunrise are bad
times for spying : at noontime you get no shadows and during the other
times the shadows are too long.
> Ok, ok, I'll shut up now...
Perhaps you should read Sundiver by David Brin.
(And my schoolwork seems to lessen, we might play some time next month...
Not much oppportunities for star exploration there... and I can't remember
you having any spy satellites on board. B-)
- --
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3810
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From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)
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Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3810
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3811
Date: | 3/20/01 3:58:22 PM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, March 20 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3811
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Cutter Books
Re: Music for BayCon party
Re: Minor fix to Yori adventures
RE: Music for BayCon party
RE: Need a Subcontractor?
Re: Looking for right time and place for Slave trading
RE: Looking for right time and place for Slave trading
Re: Traveller Interesting Sites
Cultures on bulkanised worlds
Re: Calculating satellite orbits
Re: Cultures on bulkanised worlds
Re: Alternity/Dragon question
RE: Intruder....
Agreed RE: Ghost Story WEB ARCHIVE
RE: Question about the Imperial military
Re: Agreed RE: Ghost Story WEB ARCHIVE
RE: Agreed RE: Ghost Story WEB ARCHIVE
Re: Cultures on bulkanised worlds
RE: Triumphant return
Want to Buy a Used Spacecraft?
Re: Want to Buy a Used Spacecraft?
Re: Want to Buy a Used Spacecraft?
BayCon Music....
RE: BayCon Music....
Re: Music for BayCon party
A Ghost by any other name
RE: A Ghost by any other name
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:59:13 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Cutter Books
Terry Carlino wrote:
> Picked Up Modular Cutter on Saturday. Excellent! Several nits, which I'll
> post at SJGames, not here. Well worth the price.
I'm still waiting for international surface mail to deliver my copy, along with
GT: Star Mercs (the only GT supplement I don't own), Car Wars, and some other
goodies.
Can't wait...
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:02:57 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Music for BayCon party
Chris Seamans wrote:
> "Never, never, never trust a Klingon... You will never forget it.
> Never, never, never trust a Klingon... You will always regret it."
>
> I may have gotten that wrong, but it's been a long time, so I apologize. :)
Actually, it's "Never, ever, never trust a Klingon..."
They've done a lot of other really useful songs. 'Black hole', 'Speed of light',
'Not human'... and a few dozen more :-)
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:12:03 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Minor fix to Yori adventures
"Trevor, Peter" wrote:
> StuffOnline = http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen/sol
>
> >From there click on "Traveller", and then "TML Landgrab: Yori".
> At the bottom of the main Yori page are links to related material
> (including the two adventures I mentioned).
Thanks. I'll read them when I've got more time (deadline, deadline...)
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 06:05:07 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: RE: Music for BayCon party
Jens wrote:
>Actually, it's "Never, ever, never trust a Klingon..."
Bah! I got one letter wrong! Not bad, considering I only heard it once,
quite a few years ago. ;)
>They've done a lot of other really useful songs. 'Black hole', 'Speed of
light',
>'Not human'... and a few dozen more :-)
I can imagine. I believe I heard another song off of the CD 'Never Trust a
Klingon' was on, but that's the one that stood out in my mind.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:03:52 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Need a Subcontractor?
Antony Farrell wrote:
> I used to think the Donosev was the ugliest ship ever designed,
> then I beheld an Antiama class fleet carrier. The configuration
> put me in mind of a childs building blocks. (I'd call it an
> unstreamlined slab configuration. It is one of the few designs
> that seems to be streamlined for running in reverse (based on
> the Paul Jaquays illustration in Fighting Ships, perhaps fore
> and aft were reversed in the drawing?)
>
> Perhaps other members of the list would like to comment on
> this design.
You are right, the Antiama is pig-ugly!
Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:20:05 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Looking for right time and place for Slave trading
>There was some discussion of a world with a very strange (by our
>standards) culture that included some "slavery" a few months back.
>Anybody have my posts in that thread handy? If not, where are the
>archives, so I can try to find them.
Sounds like it might be James Maliszewski's "Irhadre". Published in the JTAS
a bit over a year ago.
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:47:04 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Looking for right time and place for Slave trading
>
> >There was some discussion of a world with a very strange (by our
> >standards) culture that included some "slavery" a few months back.
> >Anybody have my posts in that thread handy? If not, where are the
> >archives, so I can try to find them.
>
> Sounds like it might be James Maliszewski's "Irhadre".
> Published in the JTAS
> a bit over a year ago.
>
'No no no, it's not slavery as you mean it! You don't understand our
culture! It's a great honour! Don't oppress me, fascist!' :)
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 06:55:54 -0600
From: "Shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Interesting Sites
Heres another one:
This is at the JPL, "The Basics of Space Flight"
its a tutorial on spacecraft operations, that was pointed out by a
gentleman from alt.callahans. it makes for interesting reading in
general, especially on low tech space flightand how things really
work.
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/basics
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:44:21 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: Cultures on bulkanised worlds
I was reading through Grand Census last night and I noticed that
the culture definition comes *before* the expansion of the
government details. And its in the later part that multiple
states are defined for bulkanised worlds. Quick opinion from the
list please: should all the population of a bulkanised world have
cultural similarities or should each nation have its own unique
culture? Ditto for the other worlds in the same system (even
when the main world is *not* bulkanised). I can see a case being
made for both positions depending on the reasons for the
bulkanisation ... different original settlers Vs recent
fragmentation. How do you handle it IYTU? Any rules for which
way round or just on Ref's whim?
Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:25:57
From: "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Calculating satellite orbits
I found the equation for computing the nodal regression rate, the rate at
which the orbital plane precesses relative to inertial coordinates. The
precession is caused by the Earth's equatorial bulge, not the pear shape as
I said earlier. This equation is unique to the Earth:
Rate = -9.97 cos(inc) (Re/a)^3.5 / (1-ecc^2)^2 deg/day
inc is the orbital inclination
Re is the earth's radius
a is the semi-major axis of the orbit
ecc is the eccentricity.
For the station to follow the same groundtrack on a tidally locked planet,
the regression rate has to equal 360 degrees divided by the planet's orbital
period in days. For example, if the planet circles its star in 100 days, the
nodal regression rate needs to be 3.6 degrees per day. There are many
combinations of inclination, period (set by the semi-major axis), and
eccentricity that can provide the correct rate.
There is one remaining question. Would a tidally locked planet have an
equatorial bulge since it rotates so slowly? You could postulate that the
bulge formed while the planet was forming prior to becoming tidally locked.
A more complicated problem would be for a planet like Mercury locked in a
3:2(three rotations per two years) or other non 1:1 mode.
John
_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 07:31:42 -0800
From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Cultures on bulkanised worlds
At 02:44 PM 03/20/01 -0000, you wrote:
>Quick opinion from the
>list please: should all the population of a bulkanised world have
>cultural similarities or should each nation have its own unique
>culture?
Depends upon who the world came to be balkanised. If it was settled by
different groups, or a single colony split over social issues, then
cultures could be very different.
Tech level also plays a role, since with improved communications and travel
a smoothing effect is seen as different societies borrow and apadt from
each other (this does not apply to nation-states settled by the French...
*grin*)
>Ditto for the other worlds in the same system (even
>when the main world is *not* bulkanised).
Smaller colonies would be more likely to retain the mores of the mainworld.
- --
Douglas E. Berry Templar Agent at Large.
gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
Author of GT: Ground Forces
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:50:12 -0600
From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" <sdaniels@playnet.com>
Subject: Re: Alternity/Dragon question
knightsky@juno.com wrote:
> > Um, Alternity *was* a Traveller conversion.
>
> But that's what you say about *all* other SFRPGs! ;-)
If the shoe fits . . .
- -bloo
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:21:45 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: Intruder....
I'd actually seen information regarding Intruder a couple of weeks ago off
of it's parent page, User Friendly (any geek worth his code should know this
site ;) I'd meant to forward it to the list, but with all the havoc around
my house (fire repairs finally under full swing) and the amount of work we
had on our plates at work, I totally forgot to.
If you haven't read the proposal for Intruder, you should certainly do so.
Since this product is open source, this could become a basis for a cool
Traveller computer game.
If anyone from the list joins the Intruder team as a coder, keep us posted.
If you help create the game, I imagine a Traveller Full Conversion would be
"relatively" easy. And yes, I'd whole-heartedly do anything I could for the
conversion. Unfortunately, I don't really have the time to work on Intruder
itself. Too many projects, so little time (various SJG stuff, BITS, my own
site, my Traveller Props initiative, etc.)
Best,
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Rob
> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 6:11 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Intruder....
>
>
> This was bound to happen eventually...but there is a game under
> construction as an open project...I think it would appeal to the average
> Traveller player...and there are probably people on this list who can
> help with coding, graphics and general ideas generation...(If Jesse
> could do some of the game graphics it would be sooooooo cool... :-) )
>
> http://www.intruder.com/
>
>
> Other Rob
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:34:04 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: Agreed RE: Ghost Story WEB ARCHIVE
I think a web archive of these Traveller Ghost Stories is an OUTSTANDING
idea. Depending on the various ships involved, I'll volunteer my time
(dependant on SJG & BITS deadlines) to render shots of the ships involved.
Best,
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Frank G. Pitt
> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 11:43 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: RE: Ghost Story
>
>
> OK, people,
>
> I love all these ghost stories.
> I think they need a place on the web for general reference.
>
> I will ask each individual author before putting anything of their's up on
> the web, and make sure it is properly attributed, but can I get a show of
> hands from people in general if they think it's a good idea ?
>
> And if so, we'll need a title for the page, like "Tales from
> Witchspace" or
> something.
> Feel free to make suggestions.
>
> Frankie
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:41:04 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Question about the Imperial military
Sethkimmel wrote:
> Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com writes:
> << *Avoid* the "Fighting Ships of the
> Shattered Imperium" at all costs >>
>
> I wouldn't go that far. I would recommend it if you can get it
> cheap (say 5$ US or so...). It does have nice data about squadron
> organization and descriptions of various vessels. The reason it
> has the horrible reputation (entirely deserved BTW...) is that as
> an MT supplement, EVERY design in the book has SERIOUS typos and
> math errors that make the designs useless...;-(
I wasn't happy with the squadron organisation stuff, either. 50%
was a reprint from earlier works but the new material seemed at
odds with established canon. According to FSotSI the Imperial
Navy is very homogeneous (within each TL), yet this does not
square with an analysis of the 5FW boardgame: if you group the
3I's squadron counters based on its printed stats you find you
have many different squadron types. That can only be explained
if there is more variation in the capital ships ... and more
variation would fit with products like the original Fighting
Ships supplement et al. Also, the ships in FSotSI tend to be
somewhat larger than their FS counterparts. (IIRC the CA-15 is
100K dtons while the Ghalkalk class is half this.)
So FSotSI is only really of value to the completist ... and would
be over-priced if sold for more than USD 2.50 (IMHO of course).
Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:44:17 -0500
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: Agreed RE: Ghost Story WEB ARCHIVE
At 08:34 AM 03/20/2001 -0800, you wrote:
>I think a web archive of these Traveller Ghost Stories is an OUTSTANDING
>idea. Depending on the various ships involved, I'll volunteer my time
>(dependant on SJG & BITS deadlines) to render shots of the ships involved.
>
>Best,
>Jesse
I'd be willing to host it at either sol-3.net or teotwawki.net.
Kurt Feltenberger
"To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,
may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"
~Stephen Decatur
mailto:kurt@blazenet.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:04:24 -0800
From: William Lane <wlane@Asera.com>
Subject: RE: Agreed RE: Ghost Story WEB ARCHIVE
I think it would be a great idea also. When i get our groups website up and
rio up on the net i will write a little something togo on it also 8)
Hasta
Bill
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jesse Degraff [mailto:jedegraf@cisco.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 8:34 AM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: Agreed RE: Ghost Story WEB ARCHIVE
I think a web archive of these Traveller Ghost Stories is an OUTSTANDING
idea. Depending on the various ships involved, I'll volunteer my time
(dependant on SJG & BITS deadlines) to render shots of the ships involved.
Best,
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Frank G. Pitt
> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 11:43 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: RE: Ghost Story
>
>
> OK, people,
>
> I love all these ghost stories.
> I think they need a place on the web for general reference.
>
> I will ask each individual author before putting anything of their's up on
> the web, and make sure it is properly attributed, but can I get a show of
> hands from people in general if they think it's a good idea ?
>
> And if so, we'll need a title for the page, like "Tales from
> Witchspace" or
> something.
> Feel free to make suggestions.
>
> Frankie
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:20:39 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Cultures on bulkanised worlds
Trevor, Peter wrote:
> I can see a case being
> made for both positions depending on the reasons for the
> bulkanisation
Usually it's just because Costco opened a store nearby...
:-P
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:40:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Triumphant return
>From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
>LOL, cheers, Glenn. Actually, I spent some time with my Traveller-loving
>girlfriend. I like to think that she shows this interest in Trav for it's
>own sake, not just to humour me :)
It's all good, as the kids around here say. My gf actually gets in
costume for the annual Traveller BayCon party (although she says actually
playing seems like a strange way to spend time). For my part, I make a
genuine effort to learn various ballroom dances (which, in an odd
complementarity, do get easier the more I advance in hapkido).
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
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Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 19:13:18
From: "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com>
Subject: Want to Buy a Used Spacecraft?
Check out http://www.thespacestore.com
The are placing a slightly used Soyuz capsule up for auction. I'm not sure
what the price will be, but there are lots of neat pictures.
John
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:05:54 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Want to Buy a Used Spacecraft?
John Lambert wrote:
> Check out http://www.thespacestore.com
>
Yeah, like:
http://superiorgalleries.com/depts/space/photos/SoyuzTM26/TM26int2-big.jpg
Analog 3D orbit display...;-)
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 20:54:28
From: "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Want to Buy a Used Spacecraft?
>From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
>
>John Lambert wrote:
>
>>Check out http://www.thespacestore.com
>>
>
>Yeah, like:
>
>http://superiorgalleries.com/depts/space/photos/SoyuzTM26/TM26int2-big.jpg
>
>Analog 3D orbit display...;-)
>
>--
>Bruce Johnson
I thought it was holographic!
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:18:19 -0800 (PST)
From: AuricTech Shipyards <aurictech@esweeet.com>
Subject: BayCon Music....
Of course, there's one song that, although it has no science-fiction theme at all, is _mandatory_ for the BayCon party:
"Suspicious Minds,", sung by St. Elvis of Terra.
After all, Emperor Strephon quotes it in _Survival Margin_. That's a good enough endorsement for _me_! ;-)
Planning to attend virtually (from my Balkan exile),
John Groth
PS: Hoist a few Scout Brews for me (drink for those who can't drink for themselves!).
==
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/colverber/travler.html
_____________________________________________________________
Free eSweeet Mail - http://www.esweeet.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:44:02 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: BayCon Music....
You can count on it buddy :)
Jesse
John Groth speaketh:
> PS: Hoist a few Scout Brews for me (drink for those who can't
> drink for themselves!).
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 00:30:49 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Music for BayCon party
Chris Seamans wrote:
> I can imagine. I believe I heard another song off of the CD 'Never Trust a
> Klingon' was on, but that's the one that stood out in my mind.
You probably heard 'Neutral zone' then... it's good, but not quite as catchy as
Klingon. Here are some useful lyrics from another record:
"I see them in my dreams
I see them in my head
In the night, intensive light
They are standing around my bed
I beg them 'Please' but there is no sound
Instead I'm floating above the ground
Then, they're doing things to me
With some weird machinery"
- - S.P.O.C.K, 'Not human'
And with these words I think I step down from this soap-box...
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:32:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>
Subject: A Ghost by any other name
I had an NPC that I never got a chance to use in
Milieu 0 that I'm placing here for public use. I think
that I got the original idea from Bradbury's "The
Martian Chronicles", but I can't remember.
He is a noble whose wife died in an accident a few
years earlier. A Companion (pseudo-bio) robot was
built in the exact likeness of her and programmed with
a set of responses to stimuli that would mimic her
personality by the grieving noble. The mutual friends
of the noble and his former wife found the robot to be
an abomination, refusing to associate with him or it.
Most others who know the truth feel a great deal of
pity for the noble. The noble has a self-generated
fantasy going on where his wife is still alive, in the
being of the Companion robot. The robot acts like a
real human woman, except for the little
inconsistencies (perfect poise, never eating or
drinking, no perspiration, never going to the
bathroom, etc.) which cause her to appear unearthly.
This was an attempt to create a creepy NPC who the
PCs could feel sorry for, because he is quite
delusional when it comes to his wife being alive and
not dead or a robot, but otherwise a nice guy. I
wanted to explore some of the questionable uses of
Traveller technology and cause the players to think a
bit about where they are as characters.
I know that it isn't exactly a ghost, but I think it
belongs here just the same IMHO.
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:53:35 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: A Ghost by any other name
Or what happens when the PBR (Pseudo-Bio Robot) starts acting more and more
human? Imperfect poise, shifting weight from foot to foot, spontaneous
actions / reactions, with the capper of starting to eat, drink, etc....
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Hopper
> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 3:33 PM
> To: Traveller Mailing List
> Subject: A Ghost by any other name
>
>
> I had an NPC that I never got a chance to use in
> Milieu 0 that I'm placing here for public use. I think
> that I got the original idea from Bradbury's "The
> Martian Chronicles", but I can't remember.
> He is a noble whose wife died in an accident a few
> years earlier. A Companion (pseudo-bio) robot was
> built in the exact likeness of her and programmed with
> a set of responses to stimuli that would mimic her
> personality by the grieving noble. The mutual friends
> of the noble and his former wife found the robot to be
> an abomination, refusing to associate with him or it.
> Most others who know the truth feel a great deal of
> pity for the noble. The noble has a self-generated
> fantasy going on where his wife is still alive, in the
> being of the Companion robot. The robot acts like a
> real human woman, except for the little
> inconsistencies (perfect poise, never eating or
> drinking, no perspiration, never going to the
> bathroom, etc.) which cause her to appear unearthly.
> This was an attempt to create a creepy NPC who the
> PCs could feel sorry for, because he is quite
> delusional when it comes to his wife being alive and
> not dead or a robot, but otherwise a nice guy. I
> wanted to explore some of the questionable uses of
> Traveller technology and cause the players to think a
> bit about where they are as characters.
> I know that it isn't exactly a ghost, but I think it
> belongs here just the same IMHO.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3811
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, March 21 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3812
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Cultures on bulkanised worlds
Re: Agreed RE: Ghost Story WEB ARCHIVE
Re: Agreed RE: Ghost Story WEB ARCHIVE
Re: Ghost stories
Help Needed
Re: Calculating satellite orbits
Re: Military doctrine and practices
Re: Slightly OT: ringworld xbox pictures
Decompressing Ships
Re: Decompressing Ships
Re: Help Needed
RE: Decompressing Ships
Re: Calculating satellite orbits
Highport size & cradles
Re: Highport size & cradles
Re: Ghost stories
RE: Decompressing Ships
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:32:10 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net>
Subject: Re: Cultures on bulkanised worlds
Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote
> At 02:44 PM 03/20/01 -0000, you wrote:
> >Quick opinion from the
> >list please: should all the population of a bulkanised world have
> >cultural similarities or should each nation have its own unique
> >culture?
Whichever is easier and/or more fun?
> Depends upon who the world came to be balkanised. If it was settled by
> different groups, or a single colony split over social issues, then
> cultures could be very different.
Maybe some cultural traits would be common and others would not.
Extending the logic of World Builders Handbook perhaps half of
the time (roll separately for each trait) cultural traits should
be worldwide while half of the time they differ.
Thus the culture of both the Bigendians and the Littleendians will
give Eggs an unusual cultural significance while the Bigendians will
insist that the big end of the egg be eaten first while the Littleendians
will insist on the reverse.
> Tech level also plays a role, since with improved communications and travel
> a smoothing effect is seen as different societies borrow and apadt from
> each other (this does not apply to nation-states settled by the French...
> *grin*)
>
> >Ditto for the other worlds in the same system (even
> >when the main world is *not* bulkanised).
>
> Smaller colonies would be more likely to retain the mores of the mainworld.
Yes but if the main world has multiple mores the small colonies may exhibit
different ones. Similarly the circumstances of the colony might impose
different mores. Thus even the nation or world that formed the colony allows
fairly liberal freedoms at home they may have fairly tight restrictions on
an airless colony. In Traveller terms this may be more like 'Law Level'
than
it is like 'culture'. YMMV
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 19:47:31 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
Subject: Re: Agreed RE: Ghost Story WEB ARCHIVE
On Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:52:42 -0500 (EST), "Jesse Degraff"
<jedegraf@cisco.com> wrote:
>I think a web archive of these Traveller Ghost Stories is an OUTSTANDING
>idea. Depending on the various ships involved, I'll volunteer my time
>(dependant on SJG & BITS deadlines) to render shots of the ships involved.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
>> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Frank G. Pitt
>> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 11:43 PM
>> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
>> Subject: RE: Ghost Story
>> OK, people,
>> I love all these ghost stories.
>> I think they need a place on the web for general reference.
>> I will ask each individual author before putting anything of their's up on
>> the web, and make sure it is properly attributed, but can I get a show of
>> hands from people in general if they think it's a good idea ?
>> And if so, we'll need a title for the page, like "Tales from
>> Witchspace" or
>> something.
>> Feel free to make suggestions.
I somehow managed to miss Frankie's post originally; let me say here that
any 'Ghost Ship' story that is put into a journal form is guaranteed a
place in "Lost Diaries" - it can either be the story of _finding_ the ship,
or a journal of someone aboard at the time of its 'ghosting'. Or, as in
the case of the Scout/Courier 'Christine', it can be _several_ diaries...
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
(ILink: news without the abuse. Ask via email.)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 19:51:07 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
Subject: Re: Agreed RE: Ghost Story WEB ARCHIVE
On Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:52:42 -0500 (EST), "Jesse Degraff"
<jedegraf@cisco.com> wrote:
>I think a web archive of these Traveller Ghost Stories is an OUTSTANDING
>idea. Depending on the various ships involved, I'll volunteer my time
>(dependant on SJG & BITS deadlines) to render shots of the ships involved.
Following on to my message of seconds ago, it occurs to me: Authors, if
you're willing to see the _non_-diary versions appear in Raconteur's Rest,
write me with a pointer to when the story originally appeared on the TML -
I'll go back through the digests and pull 'em out for posting.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
(ILink: news without the abuse. Ask via email.)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:02:19 -0800
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
Subject: Re: Ghost stories
And now, some general observations on the origins and functions of ghost
stories in any era:
TABOO: Spacer X broke the Sacred Law and now his soul is cursed to wander
eternally, along with his accomplices (including those who just didn't try
to stop him). These cautionary tales, like the Flying Dutchman or the many
urban legends whose moral is to not have premarital sex, exist to enforce
the customs of the society in which they're told. A related motif is the
person who takes a dare or bet and then finds out he really shouldn't have...
FEAR AND GUILT: In dangerous environments and occupations, death is a
constant companion. Sometimes it comes in a moment of negligence; other
times it just seems your number is up. To deal with their fear and
survivor's guilt (the only difference between being haunted by grief and by
a ghost is degree and/or an apparition), people imagine that the deceased
maybe isn't really all gone... that something of them lingers on. These
spirits may be benign (standing watch, or warning those who might be about
to die in the same place or manner), neutral, or hostile (blaming someone
else for causing their death, i.e., someone who blames himself or is blamed
by the teller).
EXPLAINING THE UNEXPLAINABLE: What's the odd banging noise in the ducts on
nightwatch? Why are tools never where you left them? Why is that spot
next to the reactor, the one where Engili used to stand before he bought
it, always feel strangely cold? The human mind seeks answers and patterns,
and will latch onto the most improbable to try and make sense of the merely
random.
KARMA: A wrongdoer is found dead under peculiar circumstances: either he
just up and died "of fright", or his death is strangely similar to one or
more of his past victims'. This kind of story appeals to those who like
their universe to be fair, and guarantees that even if someone kills all
the witnesses to their dirty deeds, they aren't safe from retribution.
PSIONICS: It should be remembered that Traveller is a setting where powers
of the mind are real. Perhaps in the moment of a particularly traumatic
death, a latent psychic (or just an ordinary mind under the ultimate
stress) can "burn" an impression into an object or even the very
walls. Later, living minds might "play back" this psychic impression as
anything from a nameless feeling of dread to a full-sensory hallucination.
NEW FACES ON OLD LEGEND: Like the ghosts in them, ghost stories never
really die. My previous offering, the Jinxed Scout/Courier, was based in
large part on the tale of the Haunted Cadillac. Here's another example,
the Vanishing High Passenger:
Just as the freighter is about to lift, a forlorn-looking young woman comes
running up with her luggage. She missed her scheduled flight and she
simply HAS to get home (the freighter's next destination) immediately for
"an anniversary." She's willing to pay the going rate for a high passage
or even more if she must.
The captain takes pity on her, of course, and lets her board. During the
week in jump, she is withdrawn and melancholy, returning all kindness with
sad smiles. She does not talk about herself or the subject of the
anniversary, though she may mention beloved parents. Upon arrival at the
planet, she appears to have vanished -- her cabin is empty except for her
luggage, and a search of the ship fails to turn her up.
The luggage does have a local address, and either the captain or one of the
crew decides to deliver it. The elderly couple who answer the door admit
that yes, they had a daughter... who died X years ago that very day. And
it's definitely her luggage, including presents for her family, which was
lost in the accident or was simply never found. How did they come by it?
- --------------
Kelly St.Clair "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org Right here in fair Verona
With a capital T that rhymes with D
That stands for Duel..."
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:14:02 -0800
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Help Needed
Greetings all,
I am looking for people interested in helping out or taking over a couple of
my traveller based websites due to commitments in the real world (TM).
If anyone is interested, the two sites are http://www.travellerguns.com and
http://www.solsec.org.
I will be concentrating on travellercentral.com and spinwardmarches.com, but
will be able to contribute occasionally to other the other sites.
Thanks,
Tod
- --
"There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern.
They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."
-Daniel Webster
- --
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org
http://www.grandsurvey.com
http://travellerguns.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 20:47:30 -0600
From: JR Holmes <jrholmes@wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Calculating satellite orbits
On Tue, 20 Mar 2001 07:32:52 +0200 (EET), "Mikko V. I. Parviainen"
<mvparvia@cc.hut.fi> wrote:
>On Mon, 19 Mar 2001, JR Holmes wrote:
>><SNIP>
>> Though there may be some references to this unusual orbit in a orbits
>> text, I have no specifics for you.
>
>I can dig up some formulae for this. Warning, they are a bit hairy...
>
>(My course book on the subject was
>Peter Fortescue &amp; John Stark:
>Spacecraft Systems Engineering, Wiley 1995.
>
>It has some information on the subject, but it is not presented in an easy
>form.)
Many thanks Mikko. Those orbits sound even nastier than I recalled.
I knew I could trust the expertise of the TML members to fill in my
faulty memory.
- --
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 14:51:18 +1100
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Military doctrine and practices
Dear Folks -
Just a brief appearance to add to defend one of my favourite CT books ;-)
:
>>Going through my well-worn copy of LBB #9 Fighting Ships, it
>>seems that a lot of Imperial escorts and some cruisers & dreadnaughts run
in
>>the range of Jump-4 and 6-G acceleration. The one reference I found on
pg
>>15 ("Performance characteristics for this class make it capable of
staying
>>with most Imperial fleets (J-4 and 6-G)") makes me think this is
"standard"
>>for frontline combat ships.
>
>The statistics for several of the vessels in FS do not conform to the
rules.
>This applies to the Kokirrak and the Tigress AFAIK. Those should probably
>have Jump-3.
From memory, during one of the interminable j-drive/drop tank TML flamewars
a few years ago, someone commented that the FS designs DO work if you
assume the ships use drop tanks... That is, the Tigress (for eg.) actually
has j-4 drives, but only enough internal fuel for j-3.
The poster used this as "proof" that the Imperium regularly uses drop tanks
for its military ships (ie. not just the Gazelle ;-).
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 15:09:32 +1100
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Slightly OT: ringworld xbox pictures
Dear Folks -
Rob mentioned "Halo", so I thought I'd insert my two-bits here.
Ever since I saw the 5-minute Halo teaser trailer (find it if you haven't
seen it!!) that my local games store was showing in September last year,
I've been waiting for this game to come out. It was supposed to be in Nov,
then in Dec (for Christmas, of course), and then... nothing.
Turns out that Microsoft built the "X-box" but have no games for it. So
what do you do if you are a multi-million dollar software company that
needs game software? That's right, they went out and BOUGHT about 130 small
start-up software companies, and paid them to make whatever game they were
working on at the time compatable with the X-box.
One of these was the company that owned Halo. The damn thing was complete,
and only needed to be shrink-wrapped and distributed, when the company was
bought out. Now it is slated for release at the same time as the X-box.
Fortunately, it will be released on three platforms simultaneously (X-box,
PC, Mac). However, we have to wait another year!
The only sweetener in the deal is that the company have gone back to the
design board and are increasing the size of the game. I mean, the game
engine was complete (although hopefully another year of testing will squash
any bugs they might otherwise have needed to send out patches for), but
they are apparently extending the storyline enormously.
In the meantime, if you want a Trav-like (or maybe Striker-like) game, go
get "Ground Control". It has troops in powered armour, tracked tanks, grav
tanks, etc etc. A very slick game.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 23:10:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Dalton Spence <dalton.spence@hwcn.org>
Subject: Decompressing Ships
One statement I've heard a lot lately is "When going into battle, a
starship crew should don spacesuits and decompress the ship." While
I agree with the first part of this strategy, the second part is
more problematical than it first appears. In GURPS terms, preparing
a ship for decompression is a exercise of Shipmaster skill, with
failure providing a number of interesting consequences.
1.) A lot of the accoutrements of daily life simply don't take well
to vacuum, and need to be stored in airtight lockers prior to
depressurization. Even articles of clothing and blankets need to
be stowed, as outgassing from the fibres would tend to make them
brittle and worn. While this would be a part of standard ship-
board discipline for military personnel and experienced civilian
spacers, novice passengers would have a hard time remembering
that an unstowed jar of hand cream might explode sending slivers
of glass everywhere. Even if the ship gets away from the battle
without a scratch, cleaning up the mess caused by "spacing" the
ship would be a major chore.
2.) "In space, no one can here you beep!" Electronic equipment often
uses audio and well as visual output channels, making them more
difficult to operate if they can't be heard. While data feeds to
in-suit HUDs will take care of most of this problem, internal
comm channels can be jammed and hard line links prove cimbersome
in the heat of battle, an environment even a single missed alarm
can spell disaster.
3.) "Batten down the freshers!" Spaceproofing equipment costs money,
and while military ships that expect to go in harms way consider
this a necessary expense, civilan vessels that expect to "mind
their own business" would tend to cut corners in this area. Any
equipment or cargo that isn't spaceproofed needs to be "battened
down" (ie. closed up and sealed into vacuum proof compartments).
Again this is largely a matter of spacer discipline, but unless
a ship has a robotic hull (and thus sensors in every piece of
equipment) something may be missed. (See point 1.)
Note that these are just the first three problems that came to mind;
there may be others. Comments?
- --
@==================================================@
| Dalton S. Spence, B.Sc. <dalton.spence@hwcn.org> |
| Home Page: http://www.hwcn.org/~ag775/home.html |
| Family Motto: Virtute Acquiritur Honos |
| "Trade is the lifeblood of the Imperium." |
| Cleon I, First Emperor of the Third Imperium |
| Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was destroyed by |
| headquarters and leaves the crystal. FNORD! |
@==================================================@
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 23:41:21 -0800
From: hal@buffnet.net
Subject: Re: Decompressing Ships
What happens when you mix gravity with a vacuum?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 22:34:49 -0800
From: Pat Connaughton <patconnaughton@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Help Needed
Todd,
I've always visited your site with some interest and used it
on frequent occasions to augument my efforts as a GM.
I'd hate to see it go the way so many other sites have in the
past.
I have some familiarity in putting together websites for my own
use and would be happy to help out to the best of my ability. What
are you looking for?
Thanks
Pat Connaughton
e-mail - ptconn@swbell.net
www.home.swbell.net/ptconn
ICQ # 2535086
"He who knows not how to dissemble knows not
how to reign"
Tiberius, Emperator and Princips of Rome
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
To: TML <traveller@lists.ient.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 6:14 PM
Subject: Help Needed
> Greetings all,
>
> I am looking for people interested in helping out or taking over a couple
of
> my traveller based websites due to commitments in the real world (TM).
>
> If anyone is interested, the two sites are http://www.travellerguns.com
and
> http://www.solsec.org.
>
> I will be concentrating on travellercentral.com and spinwardmarches.com,
but
> will be able to contribute occasionally to other the other sites.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tod
>
>
> --
> "There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to
govern.
> They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."
> -Daniel Webster
> --
> Tod L Glenn
> webmaster@travellercentral.com
> http://www.travellercentral.com
> http://www.spinwardmarches.com
> http://www.solsec.org
> http://www.grandsurvey.com
> http://travellerguns.com
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 15:01:27 -0800
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
Subject: RE: Decompressing Ships
In lower tech ships, such as those in MT Hard times or TNE pocket empires
spacesuits also tend to be bulkier and as far as I can remember task levels
are harder, meaning errors are more likely. Whoops just depressed buttons 1
through 4 instead of number 2...
And besides the atmosphere (no pun intended) is heightened if sound can
transmit. Sounds of tortured metal from stress, bangs of explosions etc.
Look at the battle scenes inside ships in Babylon 5.
Antony
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:42:33 GMT
From: "John G. Wood" <elvwood@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: Calculating satellite orbits
Here are my calculations for Prilissa highport's orbit. Note this is
only for your interest; don't wade through it unless you want to for
your own sake!
Planet's atmospheric composition: standard nitrogen-oxygen mix
Ms = Primary star's mass = 0.514 solars = 1.022e30 kg
Mp = Planet's mass = 1.55 earths = 9.26e24 kg
Rs = Planet's orbital radius at periastron = 0.4 AU = 5.984e7 km
Pg = Planet's surface atmospheric pressure = 1.28 atm
Hp = Planet's atmospheric scale height = 7.4 km (same as earth)
g = Planet's surface gravity = 1.166 G
r = Planet's radius = 7345 km
G = Gravitational constant = 6.673e-11 Nm^2/kg^2
Rp = Station's orbital radius = ?
1. Calculate maximum orbital radius for stability:
Ms/Rs^2 < Mp/Rp^2
Rp^2 < Mp/Ms*Rs^2
Rp^2 < 9.26e24/1.022e30*3.58e15 km^2
Rp^2 < 3.245e10 km^2
Rp < 1.80e5 km
2. Work out formula for orbital radius corresponding to atmospheric
pressure P at earth altitude A:
P = Pg * e^(-g * (Rp-r) / Hp) [basic formula]
P = 1 * e^(-1 * A / 7.4) [earth equivalent]
Pg * e^(-g * (Rp-r) / Hp) = 1 * e^(-1 * A / 7.4)
e^(-1.166 * (Rp-7345) / 7.4) = e^(-A/7.4)/1.28
-1.166 * (Rp-7345) / 7.4 = ln(e^(-A/7.4)/1.28)
Rp = 7345 - ln(e^(-A/7.4)/1.28) * 7.4 / 1.166
2. Calculate minimum orbital radius for drag (600 km altitude for
earth):
Rp > 7345 - ln(e^(-600/7.4)/1.28) * 7.4 / 1.166
Rp > 7861 km
3. Calculate values equivalent to 1000-2000 km altitude for earth:
8204-9061 km
This is well within the maximum stable orbit.
4. Choose a sensible value:
Rp = 8600 km
5. Calculate orbital period:
Orbital period = 2 * pi / sqrt(G * Mp / Rp^3) = 201600 s = 56 h
This is a lot longer than I'd hoped, but it can't be helped.
Phew...
John
http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:42:42 GMT
From: "John G. Wood" <elvwood@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Highport size & cradles
OK, the next question that has come up concerning Prilissa highport is
its size. Pretty much anything I design using GT Starports will be much
larger than is required based on the traffic it sees, but it is a B
port and there seems to be a minimal size that makes sense (similarly
for staff, which should only be ~30 people to fit trade).
What do you think is a sensible lower limit? 15,000 dtons? 20,000?
More? I pick these because I can fit everything I need into 15 kdT but
use 20 to make it feel unfilled (based on the port's history). Any more
and things *really* start rattling around...
Another issue with small ports is cradling. How do cradles work, in
terms of space taken up - do they surround the ship or just attach at
one point? Does it make sense for a 20 kdT port to have cradles for a
20 kdT ship as well as some smaller ones? I can't picture it.
Thanks again - next post should be the GT Starships design (unless I
run into other problems).
John
http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:59:00 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Highport size & cradles
John G. Wood wrote:
> What do you think is a sensible lower limit? 15,000 dtons? 20,000?
> More? I pick these because I can fit everything I need into 15 kdT but
> use 20 to make it feel unfilled (based on the port's history). Any more
> and things *really* start rattling around...
I don't know off the top of my head, but have you checked GT: First In? There
are guidlines for port size there if I am not mistaken.
> Another issue with small ports is cradling. How do cradles work, in
> terms of space taken up - do they surround the ship or just attach at
> one point? Does it make sense for a 20 kdT port to have cradles for a
> 20 kdT ship as well as some smaller ones? I can't picture it.
Cradles for ships comparatively large compared to the highport itself (in your
example the same size) are probably one or three point (for example a claw that
connects to the nose of the ship) connections. Look at pictures of the Space
Shuttle docked to the ISS and you'll see what I mean.
Interior cradles for smaller ships probably have a number of connection points.
> Thanks again - next post should be the GT Starships design (unless I
> run into other problems).
Looking forward to it...
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 02:27:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Ghost stories
Concerning the dead companions who might still be around:
How about the players meeting a character who is constantly talking to
some imaginary person or persons. A little checking around might
reveal that the character believes these to be the souls of his
long-dead shipmates, lost in some tragic accident. The PCs may just
chalk this up to the guy being a little off his rocker, but then he
starts revealing information he could not have had ...
Now for a true "ghost" story. I've never considered working this into
a Traveller game, though I have thought about using it in Dark
Conspiracy:
A few years back, right after I got out of the Navy, I worked for a
short time as a security guard for the graveyard shift at a defense
contractor's plant. Every couple of hours, either me or my partner
would make the rounds of the three buildings, making sure secure file
cabinets and rooms were locked and checking for anything out of the
ordinary. One of the buildings we checked was simply used for office
space. The second floor of this building, though, always gave me a
sense of dread, and I would try to make my rounds there fairly quickly.
Also, I would turn on every light on that floor that I could just to
dispel that feeling. The lights are automatic, and after a few minutes
will go out by themselves.
On this one particular night, I hadn't done anything out of the
ordinary; I'd made my rounds as randomly as ever -- but as I looked
back down the central hall toward the far end of the second floor I
noticed the lights were going off in sequence -- toward me! Some of
these lights should have stayed on quite a bit longer than they did,
and they weren't going out randomly like they should have. No sir,
they were going out in a bee line for me. Needless to say, I
skedaddled out of that building just as fast as my little legs could
carry me. My fellow guards joked about that one for years.
=====
Gerry Harris
**********************************************************************************************
Æther Traveller — http://www.aethertraveller.com
Soldier's Companion — http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html
**********************************************************************************************
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war" — Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1
**********************************************************************************************
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:04:58 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Decompressing Ships
Antony Farrell wrote:
> And besides the atmosphere (no pun intended) is heightened if
> sound can transmit. Sounds of tortured metal from stress, bangs
> of explosions etc. Look at the battle scenes inside ships in
> Babylon 5.
and Dalton Spence wrote:
> "In space, no one can here you beep!" Electronic equipment often
> uses audio and well as visual output channels, making them more
> difficult to operate if they can't be heard. While data feeds to
> in-suit HUDs will take care of most of this problem, internal
> comm channels can be jammed and hard line links prove cimbersome
> in the heat of battle, an environment even a single missed alarm
> can spell disaster.
Which inspired the following:
Press Release
- -------------
Bozo Systems LIC introduces new CIMS (Combat Information
Management System) for both starships and spacecraft. Since the
earliest days of space combat, commanders have been hampered by
the lack of subconscous auditory cues when fighting space
battles. Until now they have had to make do with a complex
series of electronic beeps to alert them to changing ship status.
Frankly, we at Bozo Systems felt that that just wasn't good
enough! The new BS-CIMS (code name "Hollywood") brings combat to
"life" by analysing your ship's sensor data and providing
suitable sound effects for the bridge crew. Now:
- - Hear fighters whoosh by ...
- - Hear missiles explode on other ships or in open space ...
- - Hear lasers sizzle as they burn through their target ...
- - Hear the approching rumble of an energy weapon blast ...
... in full quadraphonic surround! BS-CIMS "Hollywood" even
alters the volume levels to indicate relative distance. And with
the delux model there is the option of adrenaline pumping battle
music that adjusts to the ebb and flow of the fight.
TL: 15
Mass: 5 kg
Volume: 0.5 kl
Power: 0.25 Mw
Cost: Cr100,000
With Hollywood, you'll never have space battles in silence again!
(Ask about our squadron discounts.)
Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3812
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3813
Date: | 3/21/01 12:53:09 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Wednesday, March 21 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3813
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
RE: Ghost stories
RE: Ghost stories
Re: Cultures on bulkanised worlds
Re: Decompressing Ships
(OT) Harvesting organs for transplant
RE: A Ghost by any other name
Want to hear something really scary? (was Re: Ghost Stories)
RE: Want to hear something really scary? (was Re: Ghost Stories)
Cargo Containers
Re: Ghost stories
Re: Ghost stories
OT Question: Monitor sizes
Re: OT Question: Monitor sizes
Re: OT Question: Monitor sizes
Re: Help Needed
RE: OT Question: Monitor sizes
Re: OT Question: Monitor sizes
RE: A Ghost by any other name
RE: OT Question: Monitor sizes
Re: OT Question: Monitor sizes
Re: OT Question: Monitor sizes
Re: BayCon Music....
RE: A Ghost by any other name
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:12:29 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Ghost stories
Wow, Gerry...nasty.
Dean
> Now for a true "ghost" story. I've never considered working this into
> a Traveller game, though I have thought about using it in Dark
> Conspiracy:
>
> A few years back, right after I got out of the Navy, I worked for a
> short time as a security guard for the graveyard shift at a defense
> contractor's plant. Every couple of hours, either me or my partner
> would make the rounds of the three buildings, making sure secure file
> cabinets and rooms were locked and checking for anything out of the
> ordinary. One of the buildings we checked was simply used for office
> space. The second floor of this building, though, always gave me a
> sense of dread, and I would try to make my rounds there
> fairly quickly.
> Also, I would turn on every light on that floor that I could just to
> dispel that feeling. The lights are automatic, and after a
> few minutes
> will go out by themselves.
>
> On this one particular night, I hadn't done anything out of the
> ordinary; I'd made my rounds as randomly as ever -- but as I looked
> back down the central hall toward the far end of the second floor I
> noticed the lights were going off in sequence -- toward me! Some of
> these lights should have stayed on quite a bit longer than they did,
> and they weren't going out randomly like they should have. No sir,
> they were going out in a bee line for me. Needless to say, I
> skedaddled out of that building just as fast as my little legs could
> carry me. My fellow guards joked about that one for years.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 04:32:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Ghost stories
My wife, who was also a guard there at the time, and has just gotten
through reading the email I sent out, now tells me that the other
guards got the willies on that floor too, but they weren't about to
admit it after the razzing they gave me over that one incident.
Also, she tells me, when they did a hostage-rescue drill at the
building a couple of years ago, one of the paramedics on the scene
mentioned that someone had died during the construction of that
building.
It's so nice to know that I'm not crazy. I just wish I'd known this
before posting earlier.
- --- "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com> wrote:
>
> Wow, Gerry...nasty.
>
> Dean
>
>
> > Now for a true "ghost" story. I've never considered working this
> into
> > a Traveller game, though I have thought about using it in Dark
> > Conspiracy:
> >
> > A few years back, right after I got out of the Navy, I worked for a
> > short time as a security guard for the graveyard shift at a defense
> > contractor's plant. Every couple of hours, either me or my partner
> > would make the rounds of the three buildings, making sure secure
> file
> > cabinets and rooms were locked and checking for anything out of the
> > ordinary. One of the buildings we checked was simply used for
> office
> > space. The second floor of this building, though, always gave me a
> > sense of dread, and I would try to make my rounds there
> > fairly quickly.
> > Also, I would turn on every light on that floor that I could just
> to
> > dispel that feeling. The lights are automatic, and after a
> > few minutes
> > will go out by themselves.
> >
> > On this one particular night, I hadn't done anything out of the
> > ordinary; I'd made my rounds as randomly as ever -- but as I looked
> > back down the central hall toward the far end of the second floor I
> > noticed the lights were going off in sequence -- toward me! Some
> of
> > these lights should have stayed on quite a bit longer than they
> did,
> > and they weren't going out randomly like they should have. No sir,
> > they were going out in a bee line for me. Needless to say, I
> > skedaddled out of that building just as fast as my little legs
> could
> > carry me. My fellow guards joked about that one for years.
=====
Gerry Harris
**********************************************************************************************
Æther Traveller — http://www.aethertraveller.com
Soldier's Companion — http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html
**********************************************************************************************
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war" — Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1
**********************************************************************************************
__________________________________________________
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Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:17:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: Re: Cultures on bulkanised worlds
Bruce Johnson types:
Subject: Re: Cultures on bulkanised worlds
Are those vacuum worlds with lots of bulkheads, or
do they deal with a lot of bulk cargo? Don't tell me
that there are Star Trek aliens called Bulkans on
them!
;)
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:22:41 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Decompressing Ships
>What happens when you mix gravity with a vacuum?
Nothing much, I'd say. It's the situation on most of the bodies in the solar
system (e.g., the Moon, Mercury) and they're all pretty boring. The only
thing that I can think of is that equipment which works by compressing a
column of air would stop working if they were not sealed. But I can't think
of any such technology off the top of my head.
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:26:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: (OT) Harvesting organs for transplant
Those of you who were interested in the discussion on organs for transplant
might want to check out this article in the Irish Times:
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/features/2001/0315/fea2.htm
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 06:01:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: A Ghost by any other name
- --- Jesse Degraff <jedegraf@cisco.com> wrote:
> Or what happens when the PBR (Pseudo-Bio Robot)
> starts acting more and more
> human? Imperfect poise, shifting weight from foot
> to foot, spontaneous
> actions / reactions, with the capper of starting to
> eat, drink, etc....
>
> Jesse
>
>
>
>
I'd thought about that and wanted to avoid it because
it would detract from the creepiness of the NPC.
Although there was the possibility of setting the NPC
in the 1100s and have that unscheduled stop on
Cymbeline occur....
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:28:38 -0500
From: "Walt Smith" <firelock_ny@hotmail.com>
Subject: Want to hear something really scary? (was Re: Ghost Stories)
Kelly St.Clair <kellys@efn.org> wrote:
>And now, some general observations on the origins and functions of ghost
>stories in any era:
<good points snipped>
Something to add, or at least add focus to: a ghost story
won't work unless it includes elements that the listeners are
afraid of.
Some ideas on what citizens of the Third Imperium might
find frightening, or at least unsettling:
Things getting into your mind. Zhodani mind-rapers. Weird
alien telepaths. Secret agents with mind control drugs or
mind-melter machines. Someone making you not you anymore,
especially if you're still there to know about it. The loss
of self, whether from a "normal" creeping insanity, from
strange jumpspace radiations, or from the influence of an
evil alien mind-beast is a horror to chill the bravest sophont.
Machines that think. The Frankenstein meme is a strong one.
Even the strangest intelligent creature breathes, eats, feels...a
machine is truly alien.
Low Berths. A living death, a sleep that isn't sleep. People
lie down in low berths and look like they're dead, and some
of them - without them ever waking up to do a thing about it -
die before they wake.
Jump Space. We don't know why it works the way it does. Just
looking at it drives some people over the brink. Going into
it means you're blind and helpless for a week, who knows what's
going on just meters beyond your hull. Some people go into
Jump Space and never come back.
Strange disappearances. People vanish into the depths of space
all the time. Ships are posted as "overdue presumed lost",
people travel to distant planets and never come home again, and
sometimes the most diligent search turns up nothing. An accident
or act of fatal violence you can learn something from, you can
do something different to be safer in the future. What can you
do differently when all you know is "they're gone"? Whatever
got them you are helpless against.
A lingering death. Clean and quick, that's one thing. But
trapped on a dead starship with air running out...or stranded
on an inhospitable world, nursing your last survival rations
bar because all the beautiful flora and fauna around you are
deadly poison...that's another thing altogether. More frightening,
there may be things that won't let you die. Alien predators
that paralyze you and keep you alive for later. Abominable
medical practices that keep you at the edge of death with no
hope of restoration. Strange twists of jumpspace or fate that
strand you in a twilight nightmare in-between.
Just some ideas, they may be completely off the mark.
Consider what kind of society would be evidenced by such fears
as those above, and consider how that would be reflected in the
choices and prejudices of it's citizens. What would a Zhodani
prole be afraid of? How about an Aslan male? A Solomani colonist?
Legends and tales can tell a *lot* about a people.
Walt Smith
_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 15:10:21 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Want to hear something really scary? (was Re: Ghost Stories)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Walt Smith [mailto:firelock_ny@hotmail.com]
> Sent: 21 March 2001 14:29
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Want to hear something really scary? (was Re: Ghost Stories)
>
> >
<Snip cogent thoughts on horror stories>
When I read this tag line I got an image of Dan Aykroyd driving an
ambulance...
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 15:26:10
From: "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com>
Subject: Cargo Containers
In GT "Starports", there is a discussion of the standardized shipping
containers being used for low cost housing, etc. Today's Wall Street Journal
has an article on the front page about cargo containers being used to
construct an office complex. The article also describes the problems major
ports are having with the growing number of unused containers.
OBTrav: As described in "Starports", the area around a downport can contain
low cost housing, bars, and shops made from cargo containers. But, per the
WSJ article, there may be some higher end conversions as well. The container
manufacturers might even make standardized doors, windows, etc. to install
in their containers.
John
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:53:45 -0500
From: Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>
Subject: Re: Ghost stories
"Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org> wrote:
> Just as the freighter is about to lift, a forlorn-looking young woman comes
> running up with her luggage.
There's another similar story that can be fitted into the Traveller
milieu... A soldier approaches the ship just before liftoff, asking
for passage - he has recently mustered out (in spite of his young
appearance) and is heading home. Much of the remainder of the story
is the same: he says little during jump and disappears upon arrival.
When the ship's crew goes to the address he said was home, they find
a pair of grieving parents who have only just received the X-Boat
notification of their son's death on the battlefield.
Ethan
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:47:09 -0800
From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Ghost stories
At 02:27 AM 03/21/01 -0800, you wrote:
>Now for a true "ghost" story.
True ghost stories?
I used to be a tour guide at the Winchester Mystery House. When we said we
worked for Mrs, Winchester, we weren't joking.
The 3rd floor always freaked me out. Orignally, it was mostly servants
quarters. On the tour, it is one long corridor leading to the butler's
sitting room. At this point, you wait for the tour to catch up (some
people insist on videotaping every nail) then make them jump by
demostrating the call bells.
More than once I felt that I was being watched (not by tourists) and on one
memorable occassion I felt something *breathing* down my neck. It got to
the point that I refused to clean that floor.
Yes, the guides cleaned the mansion.. we were the only ones who knew it
well enough to duck tour groups.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:51:05 -0800
From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
Subject: OT Question: Monitor sizes
Feel free to send you replies to me at me address if you feel this is too
far off topic.
I'm about to redo all my web pages. My new monitor is a 17" 1280x1024 beauty.
My natural tendancy is to use all the avalible space, but I'm curious as to
what size monitors y'all have, so I can avoid making people scroll just to
finsih reading sentences.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:55:46 -0800
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: OT Question: Monitor sizes
I usually build pages for an 800x600 monitor. That seems to be pretty
standard. Scrolling won't be a problem as long as you let the browser wrap
text.
Tod
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Berry" <gridlore@mindspring.com>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 8:51 AM
Subject: OT Question: Monitor sizes
> Feel free to send you replies to me at me address if you feel this is too
> far off topic.
>
> I'm about to redo all my web pages. My new monitor is a 17" 1280x1024
beauty.
>
> My natural tendancy is to use all the avalible space, but I'm curious as
to
> what size monitors y'all have, so I can avoid making people scroll just to
> finsih reading sentences.
> --
>
> Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
>
> "Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
> sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:03:07 -0600
From: Stormhound <stormhnd@fidnet.com>
Subject: Re: OT Question: Monitor sizes
I suspect monitor resolution setting would be the more relevant question. I
use 1024x768 since most games I play do, but I could probably use a higher
resolution if I thought I could still read the text under my icons. (g) Though a
19" monitor might help...
Douglas Berry wrote:
> Feel free to send you replies to me at me address if you feel this is too
> far off topic.
>
> I'm about to redo all my web pages. My new monitor is a 17" 1280x1024 beauty.
>
> My natural tendancy is to use all the avalible space, but I'm curious as to
> what size monitors y'all have, so I can avoid making people scroll just to
> finsih reading sentences.
- --
Stormhound: Co-designer, Master of Orion III, Quicksilver Software, Inc.
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd
or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm
My opinions are mine; if my employer agrees with them it's mere coincidence.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:03:50 -0800
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: Help Needed
Thanks for the reply. Mostly, what I need is content. Particulatly for
travellerguns.com. I can do all the CT stats for weapons, but I'm looking
for someone to do the conversions for MT, T4 and GT. I'm also looking for
help with solsec.org, but more in the way of ideas and content.
Tod
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Pat Connaughton" <patconnaughton@earthlink.net>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: Help Needed
> Todd,
> I've always visited your site with some interest and used it
> on frequent occasions to augument my efforts as a GM.
> I'd hate to see it go the way so many other sites have in the
> past.
>
> I have some familiarity in putting together websites for my own
> use and would be happy to help out to the best of my ability. What
> are you looking for?
>
> Thanks
> Pat Connaughton
> e-mail - ptconn@swbell.net
> www.home.swbell.net/ptconn
> ICQ # 2535086
>
> "He who knows not how to dissemble knows not
> how to reign"
> Tiberius, Emperator and Princips of Rome
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> To: TML <traveller@lists.ient.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 6:14 PM
> Subject: Help Needed
>
>
> > Greetings all,
> >
> > I am looking for people interested in helping out or taking over a
couple
> of
> > my traveller based websites due to commitments in the real world (TM).
> >
> > If anyone is interested, the two sites are http://www.travellerguns.com
> and
> > http://www.solsec.org.
> >
> > I will be concentrating on travellercentral.com and spinwardmarches.com,
> but
> > will be able to contribute occasionally to other the other sites.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Tod
> >
> >
> > --
> > "There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to
> govern.
> > They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."
> > -Daniel Webster
> > --
> > Tod L Glenn
> > webmaster@travellercentral.com
> > http://www.travellercentral.com
> > http://www.spinwardmarches.com
> > http://www.solsec.org
> > http://www.grandsurvey.com
> > http://travellerguns.com
> >
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:13:17 -0800
From: William Lane <wlane@Asera.com>
Subject: RE: OT Question: Monitor sizes
At work a Lap Top
At home a 19 inch
I split my surfing time between home and lunch time at work
hasta
- -----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Berry [mailto:gridlore@mindspring.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 8:51 AM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: OT Question: Monitor sizes
Feel free to send you replies to me at me address if you feel this is too
far off topic.
I'm about to redo all my web pages. My new monitor is a 17" 1280x1024
beauty.
My natural tendancy is to use all the avalible space, but I'm curious as to
what size monitors y'all have, so I can avoid making people scroll just to
finsih reading sentences.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 17:26 +0000 (GMT)
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
Subject: Re: OT Question: Monitor sizes
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20010321085105.006af6c0@mindspring.com>
Greetings dear hearts,
Try not to design 'to size', as it will look dreadful on anything else!
Use % rather than pixel in defining table widths. Let everything flow for
itself.
And your site will continue to be a pleasure to visit.
Hugs and kisses,
Mexal.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:44:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: A Ghost by any other name
Why not have the NPC believe the PBR is eating, drinking, being merry,
but no one else ever sees it do these things ...
- --- Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> --- Jesse Degraff <jedegraf@cisco.com> wrote:
> > Or what happens when the PBR (Pseudo-Bio Robot)
> > starts acting more and more
> > human? Imperfect poise, shifting weight from foot
> > to foot, spontaneous
> > actions / reactions, with the capper of starting to
> > eat, drink, etc....
> >
> > Jesse
> >
> >
> >
> >
> I'd thought about that and wanted to avoid it because
> it would detract from the creepiness of the NPC.
> Although there was the possibility of setting the NPC
> in the 1100s and have that unscheduled stop on
> Cymbeline occur....
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
=====
Gerry Harris
**********************************************************************************************
Æther Traveller — http://www.aethertraveller.com
Soldier's Companion — http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html
**********************************************************************************************
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war" — Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1
**********************************************************************************************
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:00:00 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: OT Question: Monitor sizes
Douglas Berry wrote:
> I'm about to redo all my web pages. My new monitor is a 17"
> 1280x1024 beauty.
>
> My natural tendancy is to use all the avalible space, but I'm
> curious as to what size monitors y'all have, so I can avoid
> making people scroll just to finsih reading sentences.
I have a 21" monitor running at 1024x768 (and almost no desk
space left!!!). However, I rarely run a web browser maximised.
Assuming that many of your audience have 800x600 would be a safe
bet.
(I once came across a web site that was laid out so that there
was no *vertical* scroll but went on for 'miles' horizontally.
Kinda different.)
Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:09:10 -0600
From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" <sdaniels@playnet.com>
Subject: Re: OT Question: Monitor sizes
Read here:
http://www.useit.com/
Buy this: "Designing Web Usability"
http://www.useit.com/jakob/webusability/
Jakob makes it simple, which is the only
way I can understand. ;-)
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 07:40:16 +1200
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: OT Question: Monitor sizes
On 21 Mar 2001, at 8:51, Douglas Berry wrote:
> Feel free to send you replies to me at me address if you feel this is too
> far off topic.
>
> I'm about to redo all my web pages. My new monitor is a 17" 1280x1024 beauty.
>
> My natural tendancy is to use all the avalible space, but I'm curious as to what
> size monitors y'all have, so I can avoid making people scroll just to finsih
> reading sentences.
I have a 15" minitor at 1024x768. However if you use %tile sizes for frames and
pictures, and don't lock the font sizes, so people can tell their browser to
adjust the font size to suit, it shouldn't matter too much unless you get
totally carried away.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:46:10 -0800
From: "Thing" <thingunderthestairs@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: BayCon Music....
So will there be enough spare electricity in California to play this music
@Baycon?
G.D.D.
ThingUnderTheStairs
Minion of SheChemist and GothBunny
Grand Master of the Electron Flow
===========================
Nam et ipsa scientia potestas est.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:50:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
Subject: RE: A Ghost by any other name
On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, Jeff Hopper wrote:
>
> --- Jesse Degraff <jedegraf@cisco.com> wrote:
> > Or what happens when the PBR (Pseudo-Bio Robot)
> > starts acting more and more
> > human? Imperfect poise, shifting weight from foot
> > to foot, spontaneous
> > actions / reactions, with the capper of starting to
> > eat, drink, etc....
> I'd thought about that and wanted to avoid it because
> it would detract from the creepiness of the NPC.
How? That makes it more creepy!!!
Kiri ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..." -- X-JAPAN
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3813
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3814
Date: | 3/22/01 3:06:43 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Thursday, March 22 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3814
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Ghost stories
Re: (OT) Harvesting organs for transplant
Re: Decompressing Ships
[none]
Re: OT Question: Monitor sizes
RE:
Re: Ghost stories
RE: BayCon Music....
Re: BayCon Music....
Monitor Size
RE: Cargo Containers
RE: OT Question: Monitor sizes
RE: OT Question: Monitor sizes
Re: OT Question: Monitor sized
RE: Looking for right time and place
RE: Ghost stories
RE: OT Question: Monitor sized
Sad News
RE: Ghost stories
RE: OT Question: Monitor sizes
RE: Ghost stories
RE: OT Question: Monitor sizes
Re: Sad News
Re : (OT) Harvesting organs for transplant
Re : Decompressing ships
RE: OT Question: Monitor sizes
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:52:17 -0800
From: sneadj@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: Ghost stories
I heard this one from someone who had been in the Navy, it's not a
ghost story, but it's odd enough and could have fun applications for
a Traveller game. It's very likely a shaggy dog story, but it's fun.
It seems there was the guy I talked to had been stationed on an
aircraft carrier with someone (who I'll call X) who didn't like being in
the Navy and wanted to be let out on a section 8. X's first attempt
was the imaginary motorcycle. Wherever he was walking more
than 5 or 6 feet on the ship he pretended he was riding a
motorcycle (complete with sound effects and small details like
turning the ignition). He did this continuously, whenever he had to
go somewhere. X was also extremely consistent in remembering
where he put he motorcycle when he got off to work, eat, or
whatever... Eventually, many folks on the crew also knew where
the motorcycle was, and some of them (including the person I
talked to) eventually said they could actually see the damn thing.
Then, X went further, stopped bathing, and got increasingly nasty
wrt other aspects of hygiene (but still continued to ride the
motorcycle). Eventually, he got out (from the description of his
later actions it sounds like with good cause). He drove the cycle
up to the gang plank, turn it off, mimed throwing the key over the
side, said "I won't need that anymore" and walked off.
A number of folks in the crew could still see the cycle sitting there
and got yelled at by the officers for walking around it. A couple of
days later, some of them went out at night and mimed throwing the
thing over the side, thus ending the imaginary motorcycle.
OB Trav: You sign on to the crew of a ship where someone highly
eccentric crew member rides through the corridors on an imaginary
grav bike. The crew has been together long enough that all of them
can also see the silly thing, and none of them think to tell you
about it...
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:59:04 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: (OT) Harvesting organs for transplant
Ian Ferguson wrote:
> Those of you who were interested in the discussion on organs for transplant
> might want to check out this article in the Irish Times:
>
> http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/features/2001/0315/fea2.htm
>
> Peez
<shudder> Organleggers!
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:59:51 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Decompressing Ships
hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> What happens when you mix gravity with a vacuum?
Falling air pressure.
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 16:00:26 -0500 (EST)
From: rgd@ohio.voyager.net
Subject: [none]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 14:02:10 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: OT Question: Monitor sizes
Douglas Berry wrote:
> Feel free to send you replies to me at me address if you feel this is too
> far off topic.
>
> I'm about to redo all my web pages. My new monitor is a 17" 1280x1024 beauty.
>
> My natural tendancy is to use all the avalible space, but I'm curious as to
> what size monitors y'all have, so I can avoid making people scroll just to
> finsih reading sentences.
Hmm, I have 2048 x 768, though the gap between the monitors is a bit jarring on the content...
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:04:34 -0800
From: William Lane <wlane@Asera.com>
Subject: RE:
- -----Original Message-----
From: rgd@ohio.voyager.net [mailto:rgd@ohio.voyager.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 1:00 PM
To: undisclosed-recipients
Subject:
Now how can you argue with that?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 21:17:30
From: "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Ghost stories
Too close to home! My Grandfather found my Grandmother sitting in the
kitchen one morning with two cups of coffee. She said that she had been
talking to her son, my uncle, who had just returned from WWII where he was a
gunner in a bomber. The telegram arrived that afternoon.
John
>From: Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>
>
>"Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org> wrote:
> > Just as the freighter is about to lift, a forlorn-looking young woman
>comes
> > running up with her luggage.
>
>There's another similar story that can be fitted into the Traveller
>milieu... A soldier approaches the ship just before liftoff, asking
>for passage - he has recently mustered out (in spite of his young
>appearance) and is heading home. Much of the remainder of the story
>is the same: he says little during jump and disappears upon arrival.
>When the ship's crew goes to the address he said was home, they find
>a pair of grieving parents who have only just received the X-Boat
>notification of their son's death on the battlefield.
>
>Ethan
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 14:30:59 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: BayCon Music....
:P
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Thing
> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 12:46 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: BayCon Music....
>
>
> So will there be enough spare electricity in California to play this music
> @Baycon?
>
> G.D.D.
> ThingUnderTheStairs
> Minion of SheChemist and GothBunny
> Grand Master of the Electron Flow
> ===========================
> Nam et ipsa scientia potestas est.
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 14:52:49 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@home.com>
Subject: Re: BayCon Music....
Thing wrote:
> So will there be enough spare electricity in California to play this music
> @Baycon?
We're all gonna save up our tron rations and spend them there.
- --
"Fortes fortuna juvat"
Evyn
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition."
-- William Shakespeare, King Henry the Fifth, IV:iii:60-63
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:52:41 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Monitor Size
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:51:05 -0800
>From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
>Subject: OT Question: Monitor sizes
>
>Feel free to send you replies to me at me address if you feel this is > too
far off topic.
>
>I'm about to redo all my web pages. My new monitor is a 17" 1280x1024
> beauty.
>
>My natural tendancy is to use all the avalible space, but I'm curious as
>to what size monitors y'all have, so I can avoid making people scroll
>just to finsih reading sentences.
*Whimper* Please ... don't become yet another one of those people who
bastardizes what is supposed to be a CONTENT markup language into a LAYOUT
markup language. Why should you care what size my monitor is? Create a TRUE
web document that correctly leaves the rendering of its contents to the
client, in whatever fashion the user chooses. I *despise* sites that make
assumptions about my equipment, or try and force the web to look like just
another print medium ...
- --Contrary to popular belief, Unix is user friendly.
It just happens to be selective about who it makes friends with.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 09:57:38 -0800
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
Subject: RE: Cargo Containers
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of John Lambert
Sent: Wednesday, 21 March 2001 3:26 PM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: Cargo Containers
In GT "Starports", there is a discussion of the standardized shipping
containers being used for low cost housing, etc. Today's Wall Street Journal
has an article on the front page about cargo containers being used to
construct an office complex. The article also describes the problems major
ports are having with the growing number of unused containers.
OBTrav: As described in "Starports", the area around a downport can contain
low cost housing, bars, and shops made from cargo containers. But, per the
WSJ article, there may be some higher end conversions as well. The container
manufacturers might even make standardized doors, windows, etc. to install
in their containers.
John
In West Australia they were going to use modified cargo containers as cells
to help ease overcrowding in prisons. There was a big outcry about it so I
don't know if it was proceeded with, but several containers were certainly
modified to take heat, light, water etc.
Antony
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 09:57:40 -0800
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
Subject: RE: OT Question: Monitor sizes
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Douglas Berry
Sent: Wednesday, 21 March 2001 8:51 AM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: OT Question: Monitor sizes
Feel free to send you replies to me at me address if you feel this is too
far off topic.
I'm about to redo all my web pages. My new monitor is a 17" 1280x1024
beauty.
My natural tendancy is to use all the avalible space, but I'm curious as to
what size monitors y'all have, so I can avoid making people scroll just to
finsih reading sentences.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
I also use a 17" but I normally set it at 1024 x 768. I am currently working
through my web site to reduce the maximum width of any page to something
less then this. Most people hate having to scroll in more than one
dimension.
Antony
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 09:57:41 -0800
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
Subject: RE: OT Question: Monitor sizes
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Megan Robertson
Sent: Wednesday, 21 March 2001 9:26 AM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Cc: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk
Subject: Re: OT Question: Monitor sizes
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20010321085105.006af6c0@mindspring.com>
Greetings dear hearts,
Try not to design 'to size', as it will look dreadful on anything else!
Use % rather than pixel in defining table widths. Let everything flow for
itself.
And your site will continue to be a pleasure to visit.
Hugs and kisses,
Mexal.
Actually I find tables built to % rather than fixed pixel appear awful. The
wrapping text can make them almost impossible to follow, and where they are
used to place items in particular locations on a page % will destroy this if
the design and monitor resolution on the displaying matching do not match.
Antony
Antony
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 22:07:47 -0500
From: Thom Jones-Low <tjoneslo@together.net>
Subject: Re: OT Question: Monitor sized
> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:51:05 -0800
> From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
> Subject: OT Question: Monitor sizes
>
> Feel free to send you replies to me at me address if you feel this is too
> far off topic.
>
> I'm about to redo all my web pages. My new monitor is a 17" 1280x1024 beauty.
>
> My natural tendancy is to use all the avalible space, but I'm curious as to
> what size monitors y'all have, so I can avoid making people scroll just to
> finsih reading sentences.
>
I have my monitor set at 800x600, but don't use the browser at full
screen. So I agree with the many sentiments, don't size the pages for a
particular monitor size. Let HTML work as it should and have the pages
size themselves based on our settings.
- --
Thomas Jones-Low
tjoneslo@together.net
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:13:26 -0800
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com>
Subject: RE: Looking for right time and place
Ahhhh.. sounds like an adventure after my own heart - IMHO I would run it in
the varger extents in the Classic or G:T era
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Free Trader
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 8:44 AM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: Looking for right time and place
I need some input. I am designing a world ("Sarabus")
that will be central to a campaign involving a group
of PCs who are hired to rescue the kidnapped daughter
of a planetary official. The planet will be similar
to Frank Herbert's "Dune" with a little of John
Norman's "Gor" and the "Arabian Nights" tossed in for
flavoring.
A highly simplified version of the scenario goes
something like this: a corsair band attacks the
settlement and kidnaps the girl. Corsairs sell girl
to slave traders. Slave traders take girl to
"Sarabus" (slave-trading capital of the subsector).
PCs have to track down girl and rescue her.
My question: what is the most appropriate region of
space and era for this sort of adventure. My own
thoughts lean toward the New Era (no Imperial Navy to
suppress the slave trade and plenty of lower tech
worlds in need of human labor) since I could pretty
much stick "Sarabus" in a pocket empire anywhere in
the Wilds. However, I'd be very interested in
alternate settings (i.e., maybe Spinward Marches or
The Beyond during the Rebellion or even
Pre-Rebellion?) Thanks in advance.
=====
- - "Free Trader" <freetrader2300@yahoo.com>
Visit Free Trader's Traveller Pages:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dunes/8426/traveller/
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 22:10:27 -0500
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com>
Subject: RE: Ghost stories
> Now for a true "ghost" story. I've never considered working this into
> a Traveller game, though I have thought about using it in Dark
> Conspiracy:
>
> A few years back, right after I got out of the Navy, I worked for a
> short time as a security guard for the graveyard shift at a defense
Years ago I served on the USS Bainbridge. During construction a yard worker
was killed because one of his co-workers opened a steam valve that was
tagged closed. The worker was literally boiled alive. There was a pretty
brass plaque down by the feed pumps where this guy died. This was a normally
manned space and no one ever had any problems down there or saw anything.
The valve, however, was in an auxiliary machinery space, that was not
normally manned. That place was downright creepy. Going down there felt like
somebody was watching you. I had junior watchstanders that absolutely
refused to go down there at all. One guy claimed to see ...something... down
there and one day when he brought his wife aboard she absolutely freaked as
she passed the door that went down there.
Of course the Bainbridge is razor blades and aluminum cans now, so whatever
was there is gone.
Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 20:26:01 -0800
From: "J-Man" <jman31415@home.com>
Subject: RE: OT Question: Monitor sized
I force all my pages into a 640x480 single cell table because I write in
1280x1024.
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Thom Jones-Low
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 19:08
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: Re: OT Question: Monitor sized
> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:51:05 -0800
> From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
> Subject: OT Question: Monitor sizes
>
> Feel free to send you replies to me at me address if you feel this is too
> far off topic.
>
> I'm about to redo all my web pages. My new monitor is a 17" 1280x1024
beauty.
>
> My natural tendancy is to use all the avalible space, but I'm curious as
to
> what size monitors y'all have, so I can avoid making people scroll just to
> finsih reading sentences.
>
I have my monitor set at 800x600, but don't use the browser at full
screen. So I agree with the many sentiments, don't size the pages for a
particular monitor size. Let HTML work as it should and have the pages
size themselves based on our settings.
- --
Thomas Jones-Low
tjoneslo@together.net
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 00:00:51 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Sad News
Some of you may have known Winston Hamilton, who was president of the Game
Manufacturer's Association for a while, and a long time wargamer and
publisher. Winston died last week, evidently of a heart attack (don't have
the details yet).
Winston was a good friend of Frank Chadwick and myself, and a miniatures
wargamer for many years. He took over publication of GDW's Europa series
under the GRD label (Games Research and Design).
Man. I've only been 50 for two weeks, and it's already beginning to suck.
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 05:02:48
From: "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Ghost stories
Not all ghosts are malevolent and not all haunted ships have a Christine
complex.
Take the story of the crew that purchased an old and battered Scout that had
been retired after a heroic but failed rescue mission in which the crew was
lost. In the course of refitting her, they began to sense that something was
different. At first, there were only a series of minor incidents. Like the
the time the engineer was working on the power plant and dropped a bolt
through the floor grating where it were almost impossible to recover. He
went back to the central stores, but was unable to locate a replacement.
When he returned to the power plant resigned to lift the grating, the bolt
was laying next to his tools. On several occasions, the crew went to the
scrap metal bin for a piece to make a brace or a patch and found that the
piece they picked up exactly fit their needs with no trimming or bending.
There was also the time that a warning light went off while the ship was in
port. The cause of the warning light was quickly traced to a faulty
indicator, but in the course of tracking it down, the
crew found a cracked fitting that would have failed the next time they
attempted to jump. Later, more obvious incidents began to occur. Once, the
crew encountered an unusual fitting requiring a special tool. Going to the
tool box to find something that would make do, the exact tool
that was needed and that no one had seen before was laying on top.
The incidents continue to occur to this day. Usually, nothing too far out of
the ordinary, but too frequently to be pure chance. The crew now gladly
accepts the ship’s assistance. There is only one problem with the ship that
they have not been able to correct. The ship’s old Scout Service designation
keeps reappearing in the chameleon paint.
OB Real World (tm): Parts of the story are loosely based on occurrences
friends of mine had with an old house in upstate New York. Many things link
the story back to the previous owner. I lived in the house for several
months and saw a number of unusual things. Nothing that was too far out of
the ordinary, just a lot of them. And then there was that cold spot in one
of the rooms, ... .
John
John
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 20:20:34 +1200
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: OT Question: Monitor sizes
Douglas Berry wrote :
> My natural tendancy is to use all the avalible space, but I'm
> curious as to what size monitors y'all have, so I can avoid
> making people scroll just to finsih reading sentences.
I have a 17 inch, and the US commercial standard is now 19", going on 21",
but for general web usage you should still not layout a web-page for
anything more than a 800x600 15" monitor, because even when you have a 21",
you don't usually use the whole screen for your browser.
If you like I could give you two references to percentage of monitor sizes
on the general web.
Of course a good web page should work at _any_ available resolution, because
you should not code your web page with fixed sizes, only percentages.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:00:21 -0800
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
Subject: RE: Ghost stories
Then there is the Annic Nova, if ever a ship deserves to be haunted it is
this one. A ship whose origin is unknown and whose crew (a family group) all
died of a particularly nasty disease.
Antony
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 20:32:20 +1200
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: OT Question: Monitor sizes
Antony Farrell wrote :
> Actually I find tables built to % rather
> than fixed pixel appear awful.
Mine don't. <grin>
> The wrapping text can make them almost impossible
> to follow, and where they are used to place items
> in particular locations on a page % will destroy
> this if the design and monitor resolution on the
> displaying matching do not match.
Then don't try to position things on a page. HTML is a content mark-up
language, not a layout language. That's what CSS is for.
And yuo shouldn't use tables either, because they stuff up vocal browsers.
<grin>
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 09:14 +0000 (GMT)
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
Subject: Re: Sad News
In-Reply-To: <6b.1186915e.27eae103@aol.com>
Greetings dear hearts.
May the Lord receive Winston's soul into eternal light, and comfort those
who remain behind.
Amen.
Hugs and kisses,
Mexal.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 20:39:48 +1100
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re : (OT) Harvesting organs for transplant
Thanks for the link, Ian.
The article was interesting.
I think that the sooner organ supply problems are decisively resolved one
way or another, the better.
Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 20:41:31 +1100
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re : Decompressing ships
Other problems that haven't been mentioned :-
i. Cooling of electronic equipment (some sort of sealed liquid convective
system might be preferable e.g. perfluorocarbons). This might explain why
computers in Trav are so big <g>
ii. Problems with greases, oils on moving parts - properties may change with
vaccuum exposure (boiling or other state changes)
iii. Vaccuum welding of metal?
Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:51:57 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: OT Question: Monitor sizes
Laptop and 15 inch flat screen at the office, 17 inch and 28 inch TV output
at home. Resolutions vary wildly, but 800x600, 16 bit colour by default.
Dean
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Douglas Berry [mailto:gridlore@mindspring.com]
> Sent: 21 March 2001 16:51
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: OT Question: Monitor sizes
>
>
> Feel free to send you replies to me at me address if you feel
> this is too
> far off topic.
>
> I'm about to redo all my web pages. My new monitor is a 17"
> 1280x1024 beauty.
>
> My natural tendancy is to use all the avalible space, but I'm
> curious as to
> what size monitors y'all have, so I can avoid making people
> scroll just to
> finsih reading sentences.
> --
>
> Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
>
> "Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
> sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger
>
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3814
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3815
Date: | 3/22/01 7:08:55 AM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Thursday, March 22 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3815
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
RE: Decompressing Ships
RE: Re : Decompressing ships
Re: Ghost stories
Placement of slavery-based campaign
Re: Ghost stories
Re: Sad News
Cutter Books and Deckplans
RE: Ghost stories
RE: OT Question: Monitor sizes
RE: Ghost stories
RE: Deep Space Jumps
RE: Civility and Politeness.
RE: Forms of address: a rebuttal
RE: [TML] Hull jump grids
RE: Civility and Politeness.
RE: Civility and Politeness.
RE: Civility and Politeness.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:36:04 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Decompressing Ships
Dalton Spence wrote:
> A lot of the accoutrements of daily life simply don't take well
> to vacuum, and need to be stored in airtight lockers prior to
> depressurization. Even articles of clothing and blankets need to
> be stowed, as outgassing from the fibres would tend to make them
> brittle and worn. While this would be a part of standard ship-
> board discipline for military personnel and experienced civilian
> spacers, novice passengers would have a hard time remembering
> that an unstowed jar of hand cream might explode sending slivers
> of glass everywhere. Even if the ship gets away from the battle
> without a scratch, cleaning up the mess caused by "spacing" the
> ship would be a major chore.
I can see special ranges of vacuum-tolerant fabrics, toiletries,
etc, being the norm for shipboard use. Novice passengers would
be told to put all their normal toiletries, etc, in storage for
the duration of their stay and only use ship approved items.
They would be allowed their own clothing but warned about the
possible consequences. On *luxury* passenger liners the large
number of stewards/valets would allow for a relaxing of these
rules.
> "Batten down the freshers!" Spaceproofing equipment costs money,
> and while military ships that expect to go in harms way consider
> this a necessary expense, civilan vessels that expect to "mind
> their own business" would tend to cut corners in this area. Any
> equipment or cargo that isn't spaceproofed needs to be "battened
> down" (ie. closed up and sealed into vacuum proof compartments).
> Again this is largely a matter of spacer discipline, but unless
> a ship has a robotic hull (and thus sensors in every piece of
> equipment) something may be missed. (See point 1.)
Spaceproofing may be a safety requirement of space-worthiness
certificates. I would certainly expect something like that for
any ship the wants to carry fee-paying passengers. Corners would
only be cut on the tramp traders ... along with not having
liability insurance, flying without a valid pilot's licence, etc.
But these are potential plot devices.
Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:41:50 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Re : Decompressing ships
Robert O'Connor wrote:
> Other problems that haven't been mentioned :-
> i. Cooling of electronic equipment (some sort of sealed liquid
> convective system might be preferable e.g. perfluorocarbons).
> This might explain why computers in Trav are so big <g>
<g>
> ii. Problems with greases, oils on moving parts - properties may
> change with vaccuum exposure (boiling or other state changes)
> iii. Vaccuum welding of metal?
These are problems for TL7- non-space technologies. I would have
thought that spaceproof solutions would be routine by TL15.
(Hmmm ... would two pieces of "superdense" metal vacuum weld?)
Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 03:45:41 -0800
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
Subject: Re: Ghost stories
On Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:28:38 -0500, "Walt Smith" <firelock_ny@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>Something to add, or at least add focus to: a ghost story
>won't work unless it includes elements that the listeners are
>afraid of.
(snip)
>Just some ideas, they may be completely off the mark.
Naah, good ideas. Thanks for adding what my post was missing. :)
>Consider what kind of society would be evidenced by such fears
>as those above, and consider how that would be reflected in the
>choices and prejudices of it's citizens. What would a Zhodani
>prole be afraid of? How about an Aslan male? A Solomani colonist?
>
>Legends and tales can tell a *lot* about a people.
True enough, and I actually did some thinking on Vilani ghost
stories/legends. Obviously, a lot of them probably fall into the "broken
taboo" category. Those who are cast out into the wilderness, or shunned
right there in the community, gradually fade away until they're just a
shade. Probably a /hungry/ shade, too, which leads me to my second
thought: there's sure to be a story about some fellow who really pissed
off the shugili (perhaps killing one of their number trying to get their
secret Iron Chef Vilani lore) and in return they cursed him that, no matter
what or how much he eats, he's still hungry. So he gets thinner and
hungrier, but of course he never dies...
There's also the matter of the walking dead. I believe it's been
established that Vilani corpses /will/ rot - gut flora will make sure of
that - but on average, they'll be more intact than a body on Earth of
similar vintage, and perhaps will inspire slightly more tales of the
deceased deciding to get back up and wander about.
An Aslan male will be afraid of a foe he can't lay claws upon, or becoming
one of the dishonored dead. A Solomani colonist will wonder what
undiscovered horrors lurk in the darkness outside the compound's lights,
here on this planet where Man has no business being. A Zhodani prole...
okay, I'm stuck there. Anyone else?
- --------------
Kelly St.Clair "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org Right here in fair Verona
With a capital T that rhymes with D
That stands for Duel..."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 05:01:53 -0800
From: Roger Sanger <rodge@nwnexus.com>
Subject: Placement of slavery-based campaign
The campaign to rescue the diplomat's daughter could be located in any of the following regions:
A balkanized world could be a good place to run a slavery-based campaign.
In CT/GT, a sector outside "The Big 5", such as Gateway, Reaver's Deep, Spinward Marches, any
Sector in the Vargr Extents (or bordering it), Far Frontiers, etc. could easily accommodate
slavery.
Also, any Amber or Red zoned world within the Imperium could have slavery.
The strife-ridden eras (MT, Hard Times, TNE) would be the easiest for placement of such a
campaign, since the stable background of CT was trashed. With Imperial control shattered, any war
torn region is ripe for slave raids.
Note, to keep prices competitive, the slave world would need to be relatively close to the slave
source world (with one jump between worlds, 26 slave runs could conceivably be made per year; with
two jumps, that drops to 13 round-trip slave runs per year, while 3 jumps each way drops your
slave runs to just 8.66/year and a lot less profit). But, some ship modifications, such as adding
life support without adding additional staterooms, could allow you to pack them in like sardines
for even more profit. Turning an entire cargo bay into a low berth is another option (similar to
the flying saucers from Double Adventure 5, Chamax Plague/Horde). But the longer a jump, the less
cargo space there is to devote to slaves (due to the ship's fuel requirements), again lowering the
profit margin.
Food for thought,
Rodge
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 13:13:49 GMT
From: TML@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)
Subject: Re: Ghost stories
"Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org> writes:
>A Zhodani prole...
>okay, I'm stuck there. Anyone else?
You could argue that they don't tell ghost stories, because
well-adjusted Zhodani proles have no unconscious fears or
psychological traumas to process in this way.
Personally I don't believe that :-)
What about the prole who accidentally sees some paperwork revealing
that his wife was once a psychotic murderer who killed her previous
husband - and then the nice people from the Tavrchedl' took her in,
reprogrammed her, wiped her memories and released her back into
society. She seems perfectly normal now, but he keeps watching her,
waiting for signs that her old personality will surface. He tells
himself that he's imagining things, that there isn't really a mad
killer lurking behind her eyes, that the meals she cooks aren't
intended to poison him, that she isn't planning to suffocate him with
her pillow at night... Eventually he snaps, and kills her himself -
in "self-defence." Of course the Tavrchedl' move in at this point,
take him away to be cured of his paranoia, rehabilitated, and made
back into a functional member of society. After a time he's cured,
and they allow him to return to a normal life. Soon he meets a nice
girl, marries her, and settles down.
Until one day she accidentally sees some paperwork revealing that her
husband was once a psychotic murderer who killed his previous wife...
A few other random thoughts: proles may have an imperfect or confused
knowledge of how psionic powers work, and tell stories based on this.
Nobles who need to drain psychic energy from proles in order to use
their powers. Nobles who possess proles, taking over their minds and
making them commit acts that the noble himself knows he'd never be
able to get away with in person. Nobles who take over a prole's mind
permanently, in order to achieve immortality in successive bodies.
The old "trapped within the walls of a building or spaceship" meme can
be given a new twist using psionic teleportation. Then there's folk
memories of the plague that almost wiped out life on Zhdant - the idea
that discovery, or gifts, or strangers, can bring death and
corruption. The Pandora's box myth.
Stephen
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 07:12:59 -0600
From: "D. Smart" <dsmart@imagin.net>
Subject: Re: Sad News
Loren,
I'm so sorry. I know first hand what's it like to lose a
good friend and
a gaming buddy. Gaming brings a different kind of closeness
to a good
friendship which other friendships just don't seem to have,
making the
loss more hurtful.
But that closeness and the memories of shared adventures is
just one more
reason to remember how special the friendship was.
"To absent friends" is a very real toast for me and one I
use often.
My most sincere condolences to you, Frank Chadwick, and Mr.
Hamilton's family.
David Smart
You posted to the TML:
>
> Some of you may have known Winston Hamilton, who was president of the Game
> Manufacturer's Association for a while, and a long time wargamer and
> publisher. Winston died last week, evidently of a heart attack (don't have
> the details yet).
>
> Winston was a good friend of Frank Chadwick and myself, and a miniatures
> wargamer for many years. He took over publication of GDW's Europa series
> under the GRD label (Games Research and Design).
>
> Man. I've only been 50 for two weeks, and it's already beginning to suck.
>
> LKW
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 13:14:57
From: "Michael McKeown" <mmckeown67@hotmail.com>
Subject: Cutter Books and Deckplans
I got my copies the other day. The artwork and the interior layout if
fantastic. Great job Loren, Andy and Jeese. Great additions to any collect.
The deckplans more so, since they can be used with any verison of Traveller.
The cardboard heros were great too. Now I might order the new bases to go
with them!
Mike
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 08:25:45 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Ghost stories
>Of course the Bainbridge is razor blades and aluminum cans now, so whatever
>was there is gone.
Oh, is it?
"Daddy! Lassie won't eat her food! All she does is stare at the can and
growl!"
"One second, honey. Daddy just cut himself shaving. Really badly...
feeling...faint...."
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 21:22:34 -0800
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
Subject: RE: OT Question: Monitor sizes
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Frank G. Pitt
Sent: Thursday, 22 March 2001 12:32 AM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: RE: OT Question: Monitor sizes
Antony Farrell wrote :
> Actually I find tables built to % rather
> than fixed pixel appear awful.
Mine don't. <grin>
> The wrapping text can make them almost impossible
> to follow, and where they are used to place items
> in particular locations on a page % will destroy
> this if the design and monitor resolution on the
> displaying matching do not match.
Then don't try to position things on a page. HTML is a content mark-up
language, not a layout language. That's what CSS is for.
And yuo shouldn't use tables either, because they stuff up vocal browsers.
<grin>
Frankie
I haven't used CSS yet, what do people think about Style sheets?
Antony
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 09:44:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: RE: Ghost stories
For a twist on ghostly encounters, I present the following scenario (based
on a movie I saw long ago):
The PCs are crew aboard a scoutship that is forced to crash-land on an
uninhabited dessert planet with a breathable atmosphere. The characters
come to their senses and find that none are seriously injured, but the
scoutship is trashed (hull torn open, bits and pieces scattered around).
While appreciating their good fortune in escaping almost unscathed from the
wreck, they are faced with the prospect of surviving here until another ship
rescues them. There is plenty of food and water in the ship, which provides
some shelter. Any PCs that try to leave the vicinity of the ship (more
than about 1 km) seem to loose their sense of direction in the shifting sand
and find themselves arriving back at the crash site (compasses and inertial
locators will not be functioning, perhaps damaged in the crash). After an
indeterminate time, a ship flies by overhead, then turns back and lands
nearby. The crew of that ship step out and examine the wreckage, completely
ignoring the the PCs. Then that crew starts to find the bones of the PC's
bodies...
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:36:08 -0800
From: William Lane <wlane@Asera.com>
Subject: RE: Deep Space Jumps
>Much simpler. Buy a surplus battle rider "tender" (is that the right
>term) and build tanks that fit where the battle riders did.
Very good idea. me personally i like designated Tankers for civilian use.
But for a military use this would be excellent and all that you would ahve
to do is design the pods to use the same docking point as the battle riders.
>In fact, come to think of it, the military ought to *have* such ships.
>A couple of those could establish one *hell* of a fuel depot in a
>hurry. Just the thing for that surprise attack across a rift.
Absolutly.
>And after dropping tanks at the refueling point, they could jump
>insystem after the task force and pick up any riders whose tenders had
>been destroyed or damaged.
Gives your military tanker a double purpose.
Also talking about tankers with military vessles. that brings something else
to my mind.
UNREP
underway replenshment. Would Military shipping in the Imperium find UNREP a
worth while thing?
If a fleet jumps to point B and now they need to jump to point C where the
attack will be. would it be faster for the fleet to practice some sort of
UNREP? or would they just skim unrefined fuel?
I tend to think that some sort of UNREP would be the fastest way to refuel.
anyway just a thought
Bill
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 12:46:15 -0800
From: William Lane <wlane@Asera.com>
Subject: RE: Civility and Politeness.
>I've been reading novel set in the Napoleonic era (Patrick O'Brien's
>Aubrey/Maturin series, and C.S.Forester's Hornblower series) and I
>like the style of speech used therein (which I take to be a fairly
>accurate depiction), where politeness and social graces and functions
>were more important (among the mid-to-upper-class anyway).
>"Killick, send the doctor my compliments and would he be so kind as
>to join me for dinner." In a ship 100-some feet long with 100+ men
>crammed onboard. Orders starting "You are hereby requested and
>required..." and other formalisms. I don't imagine MTU being just like
>that, but I can see where it'll influence it. (Hmm, boarding parties,
>cutting out expeditions, cutlasses and pikes, "Beat to quarters!",
>"Clear for action!"...) But I'm digressing.
I also have read the books from both these Series. Fantastic series of
books. If you like them might i suggest Alexander Kent's Richard Bolitho
Series. very simular to Hornblower in the fact that the main char starts out
as a midshipman. And yes these works have impacted several things i do in my
campains 8P
"beat to Quarters!"
"Bosun Rig your chains and sand the decks!"
"Run out the guns!" (for those ships equiped with retracting turrets 8P)
Bill
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:38:14 -0800
From: William Lane <wlane@Asera.com>
Subject: RE: Forms of address: a rebuttal
You know this sounds like a great topic to write something up for traveller.
I dont know of anything that covers this. of course i could be wrong.
If this were a good subject then i would start out by reviewing actual
customs in known Kingdoms for refrencing nobility. IE the french Monarchy,
UK back then, ect.. ect..
> Sink me, but who did his cravat?
>
> Customs and Etiquette of the Imperial Court
>
> How about some examples.
>I always liked "Ser" from L.E.Modesitt's books for a gender-neutral
non-official "Sir".
>How are female knights of the Imperium addressed? "Lady"? That's
>boring
>and possibly confused with a female non-title holding spouse/consort of
>any
>noble, isn't it? Or would the wife always have the female version of
>her
>spouse's title? Is it "Baron and Lady", or "Baron and Baroness"?
>bloo
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:43:41 -0800
From: William Lane <wlane@Asera.com>
Subject: RE: [TML] Hull jump grids
> "I've seen this mod on the net as well, and I rather like the way it
>breaks things down. I think it's actually a very good idea for
>battleriders to be equipted with the hull nets while the monstrous drive
>coils and the powerplant themselves are located in the battle carrier or
>battle tender."
>Mr. McDermott,
> If your riders are equipped with the hull nets and you lose some or
all
>to battle, is you tender then unable to jump?
Would be my guess that the tender has its on jump grid and that when a
Battleride Docks it "hooks" in its jump grid to the tenders. this way your
battle riders would not need a jump drive at all. and iff all the battle
riders were destroyed The tender could still jump out.
But that is my guess
Bill
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 19:57:43 -0800
From: William Lane <wlane@Asera.com>
Subject: RE: Civility and Politeness.
Please remember one thing about the crew berthing your discussing.
1) these are all military vessles.
2) the crew requirments tu run a ship of nepolionic era are totally
different than modern warships.
3) compairing Military quarters on military warships to civilan quarters on
civilian ships is diffrent im sure.
The crew of a Super tanker or a freighter will probably have much more room
than a Military vessel. Also it will take a lof fewer people to run civilian
ship than a military one.
hasta
Bill
- -----Original Message-----
From: Larsen E. Whipsnade [mailto:grote1731@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 7:47 PM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: Re: Civility and Politeness.
From: James Gilly / Alasdair MacIain <alasdair.maciain@snet.net>
"Under the mattress is the coffin locker, which is the width
and length of said mattress, and maybe four inches deep; this, plus a
small locker about the size of two shoeboxes..."
I've been out for close to 14 years now. After reading the description
of the coffin locker above, I realize it's dimensions are closer to reality
than the 8"-10" depth I wrote about in my previous post. One fact I didn't
mention in my long screed was the the narrowness between racks. I'm no
Charles Atlas, but my shoulders brushed my reading light whenever I turned
over too.
We lucked out when compared to the boats though. Our perpetually
undermanned status meant that we never had to "hot rack". Still, as a "sub
vol" who was "involuntarily surfaced" for the "needs of the Navy", I'd have
given my eyeteeth for a fast attack. I was so disappointed at not recieving
orders to a sub that a withdrew my already approved NROTC request.
As an aside, the Navy decommisioned all 9 nuc cruisers through the
'90s, my ship, California, being the last. They simply worth manning
anymore. The Ticonderoga class provided the same firepower with a smaller
crew. Then VP Gore made some reference about this being done for
"enviromental" reasons. A typical lie from the moral lepers of the last
administration.
Larsen
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:13:02 -0800
From: William Lane <wlane@Asera.com>
Subject: RE: Civility and Politeness.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jones, Dean [mailto:Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com]
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:00 AM
To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'
Subject: RE: Civility and Politeness.
>
> Thank you Mr. Broussard. I've known of "Sharpe" books from my father
> and in the library but hadn't recalled them til now, I'll add them to
> my list. :)
>
> I like that view of the Imperial Marines as well.
>
> Rob D.
>Also check out the TV adaptions of the Sharpe series starring Sean Bean
(008
>from Tomorrow Never Dies)
>Dean
What is the name of the series? also is it available on tape or DVD? I dont
have a tv at home except to watch tapes or DVDs 8)
Kind of nice really dont miss a lot. I do wished i could see this new
Andromeda Series though. If anyone is taping it please let me know i would
be willing to pay for some tapes to get a copy so i can see it.
Hasta
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:33:37 -0800
From: William Lane <wlane@Asera.com>
Subject: RE: Civility and Politeness.
Yes that is a pretty accurate description of current Naval berthing
arrangements.
there are a few differences between Sub surface and surface fleet.
No hot racking 8P
Also i did not hear him mention a chiefs quarters or (as i was told goat
locker). On a surface ship they were fairly nice. at least the one time i
saw them 8P
Also shower arrangements. Showering consisited of a small line with a nozzel
with a single button. You turned on the water just as you do at home however
no water would come out till you hit that button. Your bathing procedure was
simply.
Rinse down.
Soap up
Rinse off
Dry off
get dressed 8P
Also for some damn reason the Navy has this habit of giving the Engineers
berthing directly over the shafts. so your berthing gets noisy on high speed
runs. makes it a pain if your trying to catch a few hours shut eye before
your next watch 8P
hasta
- -----Original Message-----
From: Rob Davenport [mailto:rgd@ohio.voyager.net]
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:01 PM
To: Larsen E. Whipsnade; traveller@lists.ient.com
Cc: rgd@bigfoot.com
Subject: Re: Civility and Politeness.
Wow, Bill. Thanks for the great description. I certainly count
myself lucky at not having to have slept in those tight bunks (being
6'1'" and 270#s it'd not have been pleasant sleeping!). And not boring
at all - very interesting!
Rob
On 16 Feb 2001, at 3:20, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
> The lack of berthing areas in any Trav design systems has always
> puzzled me too. In the very few deckplans I've drawn, I've simply used
the
> tonnage alloted to those staterooms and used it to create berthing and rec
> areas aboard. Junior officers slept 2 to a stateroom (in bunks) and
seniors
> got a single.
> 42 men in my divsion slept in our berthing area. Our head, one deck
> above, had 2 commodes and 2 urinals (flushed with seawater), 2 showers and
4
> sinks. The racks were stacked 3 high, not too bad when considering that
> they were stacked higher in WW2. We also had a smaller area next to the
> head that held 9 men and was called "9 man" (not very original). Senior
> members of our division slept there.
> Engineering was always undermanned, usually somewhere around the
> mid-80% range, so there were berthing areas on the ship not filled to
> capacity. I don't remember more than 1 or 2 empty racks at any given
time.
> If we'd been at 100%, others in our division would have slept elsewhere.
> Undermanning meant that we normally stood "Six and sixes", 6 hours on
> watch and six hours off as long as the reactors were up. Add that to your
> maintenance and training duties and there wasn't much time for anythig
else.
> I finally got to stand "four and eights" during my last 18 months or so
> after qualifying for senior watch posisitons. The watches were shared
with
> the E7+ personnel. They slept in chief's berthing and only stacked two
> high.
> While underway, berthing was lit with red lights to allow the guys to
> sleep, except for the few hours it was being clean. Other than the 8 hour
> work day, half the division was tryinf to sleep at any given time.
> Laundry was stored in two huge lockers and taken to the ship's
laundry
> twice a week. You might try and imagine what the socks, skivvies,
t-shirts,
> pants, shirt, sheets, and towels for 42 men for 4 days smells like. My
> father, who once enjoyed a foxhole in Korea, described his impression of a
> visit to berthing rather succintly. All he said was "Feet and farts". He
> also said he'd prefer the foxhole.
> On the other side of the forward bulkhead was #2 engine room, both
> propeller shafts ran beneath the compartment, and an emergency diesel was
> just aft. The area was a "hazardous noise area" underway, requiring ear
> plugs. It was finally lined with sound proof materials on the bulkheads
> during my 3rd year there. Our commodes got stalls around them at the same
> time.
> With engineroom "next door", men could wake up and list the the
> equipment change overs and drill sets run in #2 ER during their sleep.
> Your rack was also your locker. The mattress, about 2" thick, sat
atop
> the locker's lid. The locker itself was 8-10" deep and divided into a few
> compartments and a drawer. The rack measured about 6' by 2' and a reading
> lamp hung above it. "Privacy" was provided by a set of curtains. You had
> another locker, similar to the ones in your high school gym, for
additional
> storage.
> My division was fortunate to have our office directly below our
> berthing area. It was tucked between the two shafts and let us watch TV,
> play games, write letters, etc. without bothering those asleep. We were
> lucky to have it.
> One side of our berthing area was formed by the ship's hull. During
> our many "visits" 12 miles off Kamchatka, ice would form on that bulkhead.
> Especially rough seas could toss men out of their racks despite our being
> below the waterline. During our visit to the Persian Gulf, the area was
> ventilated, but not air conditioned. Occasional bursts of sand would come
> through the vents. The heat made it more comfortable to sleep on the
> linoleuum deck rather than your rack.
> I hope this all ddin't bore you. But I figured I might as well
provide
> as many details as possible, so you can pick up some for your campaigns.
> Have fun.
>
>
> Larsen
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
- --
Rob
'Better to understand a little than to misunderstand a lot.'
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3815
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3816
Date: | 3/22/01 11:18:42 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Thursday, March 22 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3816
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
RE: What could go wrong?
RE: FS Jet Bike (was: Re: Q-ship design)
RE: Interesting spots to visit
RE: SMEG/OFF 20mm Sniper Cannon (Gearhead Alert)
RE: Democracy Now!
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3722
RE: All your base are belong to us!
RE: world series
Deja Vu All Over Again
Re: OT Question: Monitor sizes
ATTN William Lane
RE: Deja Vu All Over Again
RE: ATTN William Lane
RE: Deja Vu All Over Again
Re: Sad News
RE: Ghost stories
RE: A Ghost by any other name
RE: Ghost stories
RE: Cutter Books and Deckplans
RE: Deja Vu All Over Again
RE: Ghost stories
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 11:47:11 -0800
From: William Lane <wlane@Asera.com>
Subject: RE: What could go wrong?
How about On the forward Landing gear one of the "Down and Locked" switches
have an intermittent short in it. so that the light on the instrument panel
blinks off and on erratically. corrective measure would be to replace the
switch.
How about an Air Lock Door Switch that will only open the door when the
switch is toggled "forcefully".
The Septic system on the ship was built with substandard parts. the Holding
tank Nozzles where the hoses connect does not have any small ridges to help
seal. this has caused a small leak if the "fluids" inside the tank. this has
given a certain section of the ship a Distinctive smell. Corrective action
would be to replace holding tank and hoses with proper parts.
A distinctive rattle/squeak in the Air ventilation system. this could be
caused by the bearings on a fan to be going out or a fan blade to be
slightly bent.
When underway the crew finds that there are several spots in the floor where
the gravity is slightly lighter than the rest of the ship. upon inspection
they find that the gravity equipment had been pulled in these areas to make
room for smuggling illegal cargos.
Me
Hasta
- -----Original Message-----
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk
[mailto:mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 11:27 AM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Cc: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk
Subject: Re: What could go wrong?
In-Reply-To: <3a95bfed.6339290@post.demon.co.uk>
Greetings dear hearts.
A really strange smell... which can ultimately be traced to half of a
groat sandwich left somewhere deep within cable trunking by a dockyard
matey.
At least one computer programme whose interface module is incompletely
translated from a language that none of the characters knows. (I once had
a CAD package of German origin, which was fine except when you wanted to
answer 'Yes' to a prompt you had to enter 'J' for 'Ja' instead of 'Y'!)
Mysterious knocking noises - again probably some loose object left behind
by a workman. Probably only manifest themselves when a particular
manoeuvre is performed.
A reactor that is always convinced it's overheating however hard you run
the coolant through it.
Hugs and kisses,
Mexal.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:28:09 -0800
From: William Lane <wlane@Asera.com>
Subject: RE: FS Jet Bike (was: Re: Q-ship design)
Ummm...
Can i use that jet bike please 8)
With some of the crazy things people do now i could just see a GJBRA form.
Guys whos sole purpose is to tinker with them, trick them out, Drink beer,
and boast about the fastest Jet Bike.
I am sure they would try to find ways to make them as Ummm.. "safe" as they
can get them 8P (please note Dr. Evil quotes around the word safe 8P)
Bill
- -----Original Message-----
From: John Groth [mailto:wombat@premier.net]
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 7:37 AM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: FS Jet Bike (was: Re: Q-ship design)
Ian or Katts wrote:
>
<<snip>>
>
> PS Our competitors would slander us by stating that 'operator safety' did
not appear on the list of FS
> design goals. At FS, your safety comes first, second and third.
>
> PPS There is no truth to a recall notice on the Jet Bike. All instances of
product failure can be
> attributed to operator error (could someone re-post the Jet Bike ? Think
of it as a ME-262 rigged up for
> personal transport).
As per your request:
**begin repost (original posted 18 Mar 2000)**
The Famile Spofulam Jet Bike.
Maximum speed of 1050 km per hour, accelerating to that speed with 87
seconds of thrust. A total thrust-time of 172 seconds is provided.
Fuelled by 100 kg of hypergolic fuel, this baby tests the pilot to the
absolute limit.
Needless to say, this is a high performance, fly-by-2mm-steel-wire
aircraft for the discerning gentleman. Knowledge of computer assisted
flying programs is not a requirement. Prospective owners are advised to
check with local authorities regarding environmental issues and flight
control requirements.
Pilots are strongly advised not to remove the safety interlocks, as
doing so may invalidate the warranty on the vehicle and thus subject the
operator to severe legal risks if the vehicle goes uncontrolled and
damage to life or property occours.
The total unit masses 300 kg, and have a frame designed to support 400
kg. Intending operators of more than 100 kg mass are advised to
contact your local Famile Spofulam representitives about custom models.
*********************************************************************
1.7 kN thrust Hypergolic Liquid Rocket ; 0.013t, KCr 23. Consumes 2.074
m3 fuel per hour
100 kg of hypergolic fuel (hydrazine and nitrogen tetroxide = "Ditzie's
Favorite Gloop") will therefore last 172 seconds, and cost Cr 40.
0.4 t Transonic airframe ; 0.04t, KCr
Basic Mechanical Crewstation ; 0.1 t, KCr 0.3
100 kg pilot ; 0.1t, KCr Free
35 kg Parachute ; 0.035t, KCr 1
Max speed 1100 km per hour. 5 maneuver points. 0.17 maintenence points.
KCr 38.3 (TL6 credits, too). Accelerates at 3.325 m/s, or about 12 km
per hour per second. Glide ratio of 10%.
NB If you leave the pedal on the metal, the airframe breaks up once it
goes over 1100 km per hour in a standard atmosphere. We cannot either
confirm or deny rumours of the release of a racing model at this point
in time.
Referees notes : I guess you should put "Jet Bike" into the Vehicle
cluster. This thing is suicide on a stick, in my opinion.
(c) Ian Whitchurch 2000. Not to be reprinted without permission, but
personal use is OK.
**end repost**
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 11:55:52 -0800
From: William Lane <wlane@Asera.com>
Subject: RE: Interesting spots to visit
>They have a M-60 cut in half, the two halves about >2 meters apart. Set up
>very nicely with mannequins & plexiglass to show >the interior layout.
if you like that then you would like to go to the George S. patton museum at
Fort Knox kentucky. The have a German King Tiger tank cut away don simular
to that. Among all the other stuff they got there 8P
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:26:04 -0800
From: William Lane <wlane@Asera.com>
Subject: RE: SMEG/OFF 20mm Sniper Cannon (Gearhead Alert)
>Your essay assignment: Laser weaponry in Traveller. What do you see as
>the advantages/disadvantages to personal lasers, and in what roles would
>they be found?
Now why couldnt i ahve had that essay assignment i could ahve written
something on that 8P
Hasta
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 11:18:10 -0800
From: William Lane <wlane@Asera.com>
Subject: RE: Democracy Now!
>>>And there may be a significant amount of actual history that
>>>would stand in sharp contrast to your bare assertion. For
>>>example, the United States of America until the invention of
>> the telegraph.
>>
>> In fact the US didn't have the kind of travel times that the Imperium
faces.
>Oh? Check the travel times between California and the east coast back
>before the railroad.
Clipper ship was around 120 days around cape horn. little faster or little
slower depending on winds. infact the merchant companies would use their
fastest time from new york to San francsico as an advertising scheme.
Hope this helps hasta
Me
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 15:42:23 -0800
From: William Lane <wlane@Asera.com>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3722
>The fact that Traveller has all of these 'system defense fleets', that are
>apparently locally controlled, is one of the strongest arguments against
the
>existence of a strong central imperium. Imagine what the US would be if
all
>fifty states had their own armed forces, and you have the Imperium.
This existed one time in the United States Pre 1860. There was the Federal
government and each of the states where responsable for producing units for
the army for the federal/confederate governments. This war was a war that
decided that from that time on there would be a strong federal government.
That is why before and during the civil war you see Units like
12th Illinois Volunteer Infantry
32nd Alabama Volunteer Infantry (my Great grand dads unit. )
15th new york Artillary
and why after the war there was a restructuring of the armys. and then you
had things like
7th US calvary
OBTrav: The Players are scouts pulled back into service to provide scouting
and recon for the imperial navy. they get assigned to 5th Regina Defence
Fleet which is being sent to crush the enemy on a moon in a near by system.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:22:43 -0800
From: William Lane <wlane@Asera.com>
Subject: RE: All your base are belong to us!
What this is from is a message board.
I play online compuetr games. well someone posteda thread about this one
game. it was originally coded in Japan. well when they sent it to the us the
translated the beginning story into english. well they did not do a very
good job of it to put it mildly.
well a couple of people made a few pictures with the phrase "all you base
are belong to us" doctored into them. well next thing you knew there were
several hundered posts with pictures with that phrase worked into the
picture somewhere.
It blows my mind how this is spreading. People at work who know nothing
about the game or how this got started are do this "all you base are belong
to us" thing. sort of funny in a disturbing lemming kind of way 8P
most of the pictures used in that little clip are ones that were pulled from
the thread.
anyway that is what it is and where it comes from
Hasta
Me
- -----Original Message-----
From: Leslie Bates [mailto:lesbates@minn.net]
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:49 AM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: All your base are belong to us!
>X-Sender: danawolfe@uncia.com (Unverified)
>X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32)
>Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:07:23 -0600
>To: lesbates@minn.net
>From: danawolfe@polaris.uncia.com
>Subject: All your base are belong to us!
>
> http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~pyang/base/allyourbase.swf
>
>
Something my landlord forwarded to me.
An adventure in bad translation.
Les
=======================================================
Objects on screen may be more hostile than they appear.
=======================================================
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 16:36:05 -0800
From: William Lane <wlane@Asera.com>
Subject: RE: world series
Tell me when i love live baseball 8) which is weird my favorite times are
the small teams not the major leagues. Houwever if i had to choose a Major
league team it would be the cubbies 8P
Hasta
- -----Original Message-----
From: Glenn Goffin [mailto:gmgoffin@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 4:32 PM
To: traveller mailing aa list
Subject: re: world series
>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
>I don't like baseball. Too slllloooooooooooooooooooooow. I like soccer
That's why it's the most popular sport in Japan. It's a long, meditative,
war. It's the only spectator sport involving balls and teams that I can
stand to watch. I'll bet we could get a Trav-in-SF group out for a day
game this summer.
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices!
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:16:03
From: "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com>
Subject: Deja Vu All Over Again
Did everyone just get a set of month old posts from Bill Lane? The X-Boat
must have just emerged from a bad misjump!
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:20:37 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: OT Question: Monitor sizes
Antony Farrell wrote:
> Then don't try to position things on a page. HTML is a content mark-up
> language, not a layout language. That's what CSS is for.
Agree in full.
> And yuo shouldn't use tables either, because they stuff up vocal browsers.
That's probably taking things a bit far ;-)
> I haven't used CSS yet, what do people think about Style sheets?
Style sheets seriously mess with some browsers (like mine). I get all sorts of
problems with text that is overlapping other text paragrafs etc.
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:24:06 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: ATTN William Lane
Huh?
Am I the only one who just received half a dozen old (one month) posts from
William Lane?
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:35:36 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Deja Vu All Over Again
John Lambert wrote:
> Did everyone just get a set of month old posts from Bill
> Lane? The X-Boat must have just emerged from a bad misjump!
Message begins ...
THIS IS THE TEMPORAL POLICE. THERE HAS BEEN A SMALL GLITCH WITH
YOUR SPACE-TIME CONTINUUM. DO NOT BE ALARMED. NORMALITY WILL BE
RESTORED AS SOON AS WE KNOW WHAT IS NORMAL ANYWAY. THANK YOU FOR
YOUR COOPERATION. HAVE A NICE DAY.
Message ends ...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 23:34:24 -0800
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
Subject: RE: ATTN William Lane
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Jens Rydholm
Sent: Thursday, 22 March 2001 7:24 AM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: ATTN William Lane
Huh?
Am I the only one who just received half a dozen old (one month) posts from
William Lane?
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
Well I got hit by the time warp, so I suppose it must be general, perhaps a
side effect of the Empress Wave?
Antony
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:50:46 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Deja Vu All Over Again
>Message begins ...
>
>THIS IS THE TEMPORAL POLICE. THERE HAS BEEN A SMALL GLITCH WITH
>YOUR SPACE-TIME CONTINUUM. DO NOT BE ALARMED. NORMALITY WILL BE
>RESTORED AS SOON AS WE KNOW WHAT IS NORMAL ANYWAY. THANK YOU FOR
>YOUR COOPERATION. HAVE A NICE DAY.
>
>Message ends ...
Message begins ...
THIS IS THE TIME COUNCIL. IGNORE PREVIOUS MESSAGE FROM SO-CALLED "TEMPORAL
POLICE". THERE IS NO SUCH ORGANIZATION. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A GLITCH
IN THE SPACE-TIME CONTINUUM. CONTINUE ABOUT YOUR BUSINESS AS IF NOTHING
HAPPENED. WHICH IN FACT, IT DID... DIDN'T... ERRRR, DID.... CURSE THIS
PRIMITIVE LANGUAGE. YOU KNOW WHAT WE MEAN. ALL WILL BE WELL AGAIN SHORTLY,
ONCE WE MAKE A QUICK TRIP BACK TO 1862 AND FIX THAT WHOLE
CONFEDERATE-ARMY-ACCIDENTALLY-CONQUERING-SWITZERLAND THING. WON'T TAKE BUT A
MOMENT. LITERALLY. THANK YOU FOR YOUR NON-ATTENTION TO THIS MATTER.
Message ends ...
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 08:12:37 -0800
From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Sad News
At 12:00 AM 03/22/01 EST, you wrote:
>Some of you may have known Winston Hamilton, who was president of the Game
>Manufacturer's Association for a while, and a long time wargamer and
>publisher. Winston died last week, evidently of a heart attack (don't have
>the details yet).
Aw, hell. I met him a few times, and had my rear royally kicked in various
games. A great guy.
>Man. I've only been 50 for two weeks, and it's already beginning to suck.
Well, happy belated birthday, I guess...
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 08:17:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Free Trader <freetrader2300@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Ghost stories
- --- John Lambert <hovtej@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Not all ghosts are malevolent and not all haunted
> ships have a Christine
> complex.
Some ghosts may behave in a hostile manner until they
get to know you. Take the case of the old but still
serviceable type A1 free trader that was bought for a
song. Seems she had a reputation for being "haunted",
but the buyers were rationale types that didn't
believe in the supernatural.
As soon as the new crew started making repairs and
modifications to their ship, strange stuff started
happening. Loud noises, like the sound of manual
hatches violently slamming shut, would ring through
the ship. But when the hatches were checked, they
were just has they had been left before. Alarms would
go off for no reason. Lights would turn off and on by
themselves. Nuissance stuff, but mostly annoying and
attributable to faulty wiring and other "natural
causes".
When the ship was making its first run, a frazzled
passenger complained that the steward had come into
her stateroom and shaken her awake, then left without
saying a word. When the steward was summoned, the
passenger said, "No, that's not him!" She proceeded
to describe an elderly crewman wearing a uniform that
resembled those worn by the crew of the small
spaceline that operated the ship 40 years ago...
By now the crew was starting to take the "haunting"
seriously, so the captain decided that he needed to
get on the ship's good side. Whenever any
modifications were to be made, he'd "explain" to the
ship what he wanted to do and asked if it was okay.
If the ship "reacted" to it, they didn't do it. After
awhile the incidents stopped and the ship seemed to
accept her new owners.
A year later while they were dirtside on a backwater
planet, the ship was boarded by jacks. The jacks
overpowered the watch and locked them in a stateroom,
then started to heist the cargo. They didn't get very
far. From their stateroom the crewmen heard frantic
shouts then the sound of running footsteps and a
banging sound followed by screams. Then dead silence.
Hours later, the rest of the crew returned to the ship
and found their mates still locked in the stateroom.
A quick search of the ship revealed that nothing had
been stolen and no sign of the jacks. They did find a
small, bloody, partial hand print on a manual hatch
along with evidence that someone had tried to force it
open, yet the hatch worked freely when tried by the
crew.
It seems that the ship hadn't taken kindly to the
jacks' intrusion...
=====
- - "Free Trader" <freetrader2300@yahoo.com>
Visit Free Trader's Traveller Pages:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dunes/8426/traveller/
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 09:37:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: A Ghost by any other name
- --- Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, Jeff Hopper wrote:
>
> >
> > --- Jesse Degraff <jedegraf@cisco.com> wrote:
> > > Or what happens when the PBR (Pseudo-Bio Robot)
> > > starts acting more and more
> > > human? Imperfect poise, shifting weight from
> foot
> > > to foot, spontaneous
> > > actions / reactions, with the capper of starting
> to
> > > eat, drink, etc....
>
> > I'd thought about that and wanted to avoid it
> because
> > it would detract from the creepiness of the NPC.
>
> How? That makes it more creepy!!!
>
> Kiri ^_^
>
>
Yes, it does make it more creepy, but in a style
reminiscant of 'Tales From The Crypt'. I wanted the
creepiness to come from the noble's interaction with
what is, obviously to the players, a doll. If the PBR
begins to show more 'natural' behaviors then the
players will start doubting themselves and their
perception of reality (game-wise) and not doubt the
noble's perception of reality.
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 17:44:00
From: "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Ghost stories
>From: Free Trader <freetrader2300@yahoo.com>
>--- John Lambert <hovtej@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Not all ghosts are malevolent and not all haunted
> > ships have a Christine
> > complex.
>
>Some ghosts may behave in a hostile manner until they
>get to know you.
That was exactly what happen to my friends with the old house in upstate NY
when they moved in. For example, all of the doors slammed shut and the
deadbolts were thrown. Later, as they worked on restoring the house, things
became much more friendly. My old house only had an old pipe smoking man who
didn't bother you.
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 09:47:32 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: Cutter Books and Deckplans
Who's Jeese? ;) Thanks. It was fun! Anyone notice the carry-over from
Ground Forces yet? <hint hint>
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Michael McKeown
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 1:15 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Cutter Books and Deckplans
>
>
> I got my copies the other day. The artwork and the interior layout if
> fantastic. Great job Loren, Andy and Jeese. Great additions to
> any collect.
> The deckplans more so, since they can be used with any verison of
> Traveller.
> The cardboard heros were great too. Now I might order the new bases to go
> with them!
>
> Mike
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 18:04:09 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Deja Vu All Over Again
> Message begins ...
>
> THIS IS THE TIME COUNCIL. IGNORE PREVIOUS MESSAGE FROM SO-CALLED
> "TEMPORAL POLICE". THERE IS NO SUCH ORGANIZATION. THERE IS NO SUCH
> THING AS A GLITCH IN THE SPACE-TIME CONTINUUM. CONTINUE ABOUT YOUR
> BUSINESS AS IF NOTHING HAPPENED. WHICH IN FACT, IT DID... DIDN'T...
> ERRRR, DID.... CURSE THIS PRIMITIVE LANGUAGE. YOU KNOW WHAT WE MEAN.
> ALL WILL BE WELL AGAIN SHORTLY, ONCE WE MAKE A QUICK TRIP BACK TO
> 1862 AND FIX THAT WHOLE CONFEDERATE-ARMY-ACCIDENTALLY-CONQUERING-
> SWITZERLAND THING. WON'T TAKE BUT A MOMENT. LITERALLY. THANK YOU
> FOR YOUR NON-ATTENTION TO THIS MATTER.
>
> Message ends ...
Message begins ...
THIS IS THE TEMPORAL POLICE. PLEASE IGNORE ANY MESSAGES FROM THE
"TIME COUNCIL". THEY ARE FROM AN ALTERNATIVE BRANCHED REALITY
THAT WILL SHORTLY NEVER HAVE EXISTED. AFTER THAT YOU WILL NOT
HAVE RECEIVED ANY MESSAGES FROM THEM. YOU MAY REST ASSURED THAT
THE CONFEDERATE ARMY'S GLORIOUS VICTORY OVER SWITZERLAND IN THE
PAST WILL BE PRESERVED. THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION. HAVE A
NICE DAY.
Message ends ...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:11:47 -0700
From: "Shawn Pepper" <shawnpepper@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Ghost stories
>From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com
>To: traveller@ient.com
>Subject: RE: Ghost stories
>Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 09:44:41 -0400 (EDT)
>
>For a twist on ghostly encounters, I present the following scenario (based
>on a movie I saw long ago):
>
>The PCs are crew aboard a scoutship that is forced to crash-land on an
>uninhabited dessert planet with a breathable atmosphere. The characters
>come to their senses and find that none are seriously injured, but the
>scoutship is trashed (hull torn open, bits and pieces scattered around).
>While appreciating their good fortune in escaping almost unscathed from the
>wreck, they are faced with the prospect of surviving here until another
>ship
>rescues them. There is plenty of food and water in the ship, which
>provides
>some shelter. Any PCs that try to leave the vicinity of the ship (more
>than about 1 km) seem to loose their sense of direction in the shifting
>sand
>and find themselves arriving back at the crash site (compasses and inertial
>locators will not be functioning, perhaps damaged in the crash). After an
>indeterminate time, a ship flies by overhead, then turns back and lands
>nearby. The crew of that ship step out and examine the wreckage,
>completely
>ignoring the the PCs. Then that crew starts to find the bones of the PC's
>bodies...
>
>Peez
>
And of course the ending, when they find everyones bones except
for one guy. When they leave with the bones, the one guy
that they didn't find is left all alone...
_________________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3816
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3817
Date: | 3/22/01 11:55:05 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Friday, March 23 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3817
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Ghost stories
Re: Ghost stories
Re: [TML] Ghost stories
Re: A Ghost by any other name
RE: A Ghost by any other name
RE: Forms of address: a rebuttal
RE: Forms of address: a rebuttal
Re: Forms of address: a rebuttal
RE: ATTN William Lane
RE: ATTN William Lane
Re: Forms of address: a rebuttal
Re: Ghost stories
Re: Ghost Stories
Re: OT Question: Monitor sizes
Re: Ghost stories
Re: [TML] Ghost stories
Re: OT Question: Monitor sizes
Central Supply Catalog Listing?
Re: Ghost stories
Re: Forms of address: a rebuttal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 20:24:23 +0100
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Ghost stories
Kelly St.Clair writes:
>>Legends and tales can tell a *lot* about a people.
>
>True enough, and I actually did some thinking on Vilani ghost
>stories/legends. Obviously, a lot of them probably fall into the "broken
>taboo" category. Those who are cast out into the wilderness, or shunned
>right there in the community, gradually fade away until they're just a
>shade. Probably a /hungry/ shade, too, which leads me to my second
>thought: there's sure to be a story about some fellow who really pissed
>off the shugili (perhaps killing one of their number trying to get their
>secret Iron Chef Vilani lore) and in return they cursed him that, no matter
>what or how much he eats, he's still hungry. So he gets thinner and
>hungrier, but of course he never dies...
And to the Vilani explorers wouldn't be heroes. They'd be fools or madmen.
Hence this library data entry that I made up a while ago:
GIIRKHA GIRGI: Hero (or rather, main character) of an old Vilani
folk tale about a foolish wandering explorer who found and entered
an enchanted castle where he slept for ten _kargukula_ (roughly
130 years). On returning to his village he found his young fiancee
on her deathbed surrounded by the children, grandchildren, great-,
great-great-, and great-great-great-grandchildren that could have
been his.
And when I made up a couple of names for legendary Vilani swords, one of them
(_Igliim_ (litterally 'steel')) was borne by 'Dalusinagaar[*] the Defender' who
used it to defend his home village, not traipse around the countryside killing
monsters...
[*] Spelling almost certainly wrong ;-).
Hans
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:51:57 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net>
Subject: Re: Ghost stories
"Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com> wrote
> Years ago I served on the USS Bainbridge. During construction a yard worker
> was killed because one of his co-workers opened a steam valve that was
> tagged closed. The worker was literally boiled alive. There was a pretty
> brass plaque down by the feed pumps where this guy died. This was a normally
> manned space and no one ever had any problems down there or saw anything.
> The valve, however, was in an auxiliary machinery space, that was not
> normally manned. That place was downright creepy. Going down there felt like
> somebody was watching you.
> Of course the Bainbridge is razor blades and aluminum cans now, so whatever
> was there is gone.
Haven't you ever heard of a haunted six pack?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 14:53:48 -0500
From: Jonathan McDermott <caraig@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] Ghost stories
Not only ships and houses can become "haunted."
We all know computers develop "personalities" or, that is, "recurrent
glitches." There was this one computer at a previous employer's place, an
ancient Unisys A-6 minicomputer with a serial number of "32." Yes, "32."
In fact, IIRC, the computer was originally an A-2 or an A-3 before being
upgraded. Saying it had been running for the better part of ten years is
conservative. This machine had seen a lot.
So, it's working fine, without any problems. I've been there for a few
months, and it's okay. My boss, the IT manager, leaves, rather
abruptly. THAT was when the computer decided to freak out on us. Data was
lost, network connections died, the computer digitally barfed. The
(indirect) climax of that insanity was when I spent twenty-four hours with
it, restoring database backup tapes from over two weeks' worth of work.
By then I'd thought the computer was either haunted or... well, something a
little wierder. That after so many years of so many people working almost
directly with it (we had only recently moved to terminal emulation over a
network, up until a couple of years before I got there, all terminals were
connected directly to the minicomputer) it had 'picked up' something from
all those people, some quality of sort-of life. Or, as someone else
mentioned to me, it was haunted. (Yeah, I know, anthropomorphising is a
bad thing to get into in technology!)
Anyway, we were in the process of getting rid of it, and I was admittedly
anxious about the ghost/whatever. I thought that if the power was cut off
to the thing, the whatever would be stuck inside it, maybe fade away,
whatever. (Or I might have just been working too hard. =) Some time
before I left, though, I was working late. I was closing up the office,
when my cell phone rang. I answered it, said 'hello?', there was a
pause... then there was this sound. I can't explain it right, but it
sounded as if it was, at that instant, every cell phone call in the city.
The sound lasted for about three seconds, then the connection closed/hung up.
And the minicomputer was fine from that day on.
I guess I believed that whatever was in the mini had gotten out, found a
new home in the cellular net, and wouldn't disappear when they finally
junked the mini. Though I'll readilly admit that the computer was just
plain wonky to begin with, I had gotten a freak signal on the cell phone,
and the reason why the mini behaved after that was because it was simply
not used as much.
But where's the mystery in that?
ObTrav: Cymbelline chips and Kinunir AI's aside, the Model/2 computer in
the character's ship has been used almost constantly for decades, and the
captain has been with the ship for ten years. A trade mission goes
horribly wrong, and the captain gets killed on the gangplank, just before
the ship flees the planet. The computer starts to greive, and the
characters are stuck on the ship for a week during jump. What if the
computer wonks out with the jump drive initiation? Or... what if the ship
doesn't want to come out of jump? Certainly might be harder to deal with
(and make a better plot device than a plot/character) than the bomb in Dark
Star.
I figured I might as well post this, run the risk of being called 'looney,'
just to point out that it's not only houses and ships that might become
haunted in a far future where computers are so much more commonplace. =)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:08:12 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net>
Subject: Re: A Ghost by any other name
Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>
> > > --- Jesse Degraff <jedegraf@cisco.com> wrote:
> > > > what happens when the PBR (Pseudo-Bio Robot)
> > > > starts acting more and more human?
> > > > Imperfect poise, shifting weight from foot
> > > I'd thought about that and wanted to avoid it
> > > because it would detract from the creepiness of the NPC.
> > How? That makes it more creepy!!!
> > Kiri ^_^
> Yes, it does make it more creepy, but in a style
> reminiscant of 'Tales From The Crypt'. I wanted the
> creepiness to come from the noble's interaction with
> what is, obviously to the players, a doll. If the PBR
> begins to show more 'natural' behaviors then the
> players will start doubting themselves and their
> perception of reality (game-wise) and not doubt the
> noble's perception of reality.
Another creepy option would be if the supposed pseudo
biological robot is really just a lobotomized and brainwashed
human who has had some surgical alterations. Maybe that new
'breakthrough' is pseudobiological robotics is just a cover
for slave trading :)
- --
Did you ever wonder if Lassie had Munchausen by Proxy?
Timmy sure seemed to fall down a lot of wells.
Peter Newman pnewman@gci.net
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 14:07:14 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: A Ghost by any other name
> Did you ever wonder if Lassie had Munchausen by Proxy?
> Timmy sure seemed to fall down a lot of wells.
>
> Peter Newman pnewman@gci.net
WWWAAAAAAHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAA!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seriously ROFLMAO on this one!!!!!!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 14:35:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Forms of address: a rebuttal
>From: William Lane <wlane@Asera.com>
>>How are female knights of the Imperium addressed? "Lady"? That's
>>boring and possibly confused with a female non-title holding
>>spouse/consort of any noble, isn't it? Or would the wife always have
the >>female version of her spouse's title? Is it "Baron and Lady", or
"Baron >>and Baroness"?
>
>>bloo
Holders of Imperial titles, at least in my Traveller universe, use the
following:
Knight; Sir, Dame; "Sir James, please pass the peas."
Baronet; Baronet, Baronet; "Baronet Smith, please ..."
Baron; Baron, Baroness; "Baroness Jones, please ..."
Marquis; Marquis, Marquise; I forget the form of address
Count; Count, Countess; I forget the form of address
Duke; Duke, Duchess; "If Your Grace would be so kind as to ..."
Emperor; Emperor, Empress; "If Your Imperial Majesty would be so kind as
to ..."
Their spouses are usually, but not necessarily, entitled to the opposite
gender version of the title.
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 14:46:03 -0800
From: William Lane <wlane@Asera.com>
Subject: RE: Forms of address: a rebuttal
> Count; Count, Countess; I forget the form of address
My Lord if you would so good as to....
could this be the form of address for the count?
hasta
Bill
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:18:12 -0800
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: Forms of address: a rebuttal
>
> Holders of Imperial titles, at least in my Traveller universe, use the
> following:
>
> Knight; Sir, Dame; "Sir James, please pass the peas."
> Baronet; Baronet, Baronet; "Baronet Smith, please ..."
> Baron; Baron, Baroness; "Baroness Jones, please ..."
> Marquis; Marquis, Marquise; I forget the form of address
> Count; Count, Countess; I forget the form of address
> Duke; Duke, Duchess; "If Your Grace would be so kind as to ..."
> Emperor; Emperor, Empress; "If Your Imperial Majesty would be so kind as
> to ..."
>
> Their spouses are usually, but not necessarily, entitled to the opposite
> gender version of the title.
It depends on the model for (spoken) forms of address. If you use the
English model, knight and baronet are both addressed as Sir/Lady [name].
All other members of the peerage except Duke/Duchess are addressed as
Lord/Lady [name]. Duke/Duchess are addressed as Your Grace.
Tod
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:48:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: ATTN William Lane
Yup, I got them too.
I just thought that it was a continuation of the
Ghost Story thread. Ya'know, the 'Flying Dutchman' of
the TML....
- --- Antony Farrell <Skaran@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of
> Jens Rydholm
> Sent: Thursday, 22 March 2001 7:24 AM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: ATTN William Lane
>
>
> Huh?
>
> Am I the only one who just received half a dozen old
> (one month) posts from
> William Lane?
>
> * Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the
> university *
> | jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden
> |
> | ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer
> science/tech.) |
> * http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male
> *
>
> Well I got hit by the time warp, so I suppose it
> must be general, perhaps a
> side effect of the Empress Wave?
>
> Antony
>
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:08:34 -0800
From: William Lane <wlane@Asera.com>
Subject: RE: ATTN William Lane
It seems that when my email was autoarchived it also decided to send them
out for some gods only known reason.
again i appologise
Sorry
Bill
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 21:00:52 EST
From: JohnTheMadHatter@aol.com
Subject: Re: Forms of address: a rebuttal
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If the title is hereditary then the opposite gender of the title would be
accurate, unless the male is consort.
If the peerage is only a title for life then the spouse has no real title,
therefore the correct address would be Lady/Sir as an honorific.
Lt. Colonel Z. "Dusty" O'Hallaran Retired.
Efate Down.
- --part1_10.a7c3660.27ec0854_boundary
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If the title is hereditary then the opposite gender of the title would be
accurate, unless the male is consort.
If the peerage is only a title for life then the spouse has no real title,
therefore the correct address would be Lady/Sir as an honorific.
Lt. Colonel Z. "Dusty" O'Hallaran Retired.
Efate Down.
- --part1_10.a7c3660.27ec0854_boundary--
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 18:06:27 -0800
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
Subject: Re: Ghost stories
And still more thoughts, this time on that enigmatic miracle that makes
TRAVELLER possible: jump space. Something most players never give a
second thought to. You push the button and a week later, you're somewhere
else.
If only it were that simple.
>We don't know why it works the way it does. Just
>looking at it drives some people over the brink. Going into
>it means you're blind and helpless for a week, who knows what's
>going on just meters beyond your hull. Some people go into
>Jump Space and never come back.
A good start, but let's expand on it...
Entry. When the lights dim as if for a seance (or a power failure) and you
have nothing to do but sit and wait and pray that the navigator and the
engineer did everything right. Because if they didn't, you're about to get
screwed in any number of ways. Then comes that disorienting tumble as the
ship tears a hole into another, hostile universe and your body can FEEL it,
even if you're safe in a fragile bubble of normal physics.
And then, even if everything was perfectly done... you're still stuck in a
space probably not much bigger than a small house for an entire
week. Along with whatever else you may have brought in with you. No exit,
no escape. You may know the crew, if you're crew yourself... but the
passengers? The cargo? What's in that odd crate that got put aboard at
the last moment?
If you die in jumpspace, do you go to heaven (or hell)? Or are you trapped
forever, unable to reach your final rest?
Exposure to jumpspace can cause hallucinations, especially if the grid is
damaged. Did you really see a ghost, or are you just, as the Doc says,
losing your mind? (Is that supposed to be a comfort?) How do you convince
him it's not the latter?
Someone said Walt Smith's tagline reminded them of Dan Ackroyd driving an
ambulance. While lots of TWILIGHT ZONE stories make great fodder for this
thread, that reference brings up one that's particularly appropriate:
A few days into jump, one of the passengers starts claiming there's
something alive out there - perhaps after too many hours after staring into
the formless chaos, he's convinced he's seen or heard a creature floating
out there. He becomes progressively more deranged and panicked, claiming
that It is climbing around on the hull, scratching at the grid, chewing on
the power cables, etc. You've got to stop It, or we're all going to die!
Maybe the passenger locks himself in engineering and tries to shut down the
drive (which in many TU will indeed drop the ship out of jumpspace... as a
parsec-long shower of random particles). Maybe he grabs a suit and a
weapon and makes an unscheduled EVA to confront the gremlin in
person. Maybe he's grabbed and sedated... and then someone ELSE in the
crew starts hearing the scratching and banging on the hull.
And the kicker is, after the madman has been subdued and the ship emerges
safely from jump, it is discovered that /something/ tore the hell out of
the grid (and the superdense hull), almost causing it to fail
completely. But that's impossible... isn't it?
.
.
.
An amusing tangent: in the NBC comedy series THIRD ROCK FROM THE SUN, John
Lithgow plays a humanoid alien observer of Earth culture. William Shatner
has guest-starred as his superior - Orson to his Mork, if you will. Both
of them also appeared in the TWILIGHT ZONE tale which inspired the
preceding, "Nightmare at 20,000 Feet" (Shatner in the original episode,
Lithgow in the movie).
During one visit by Shatner's character, the following exchange took place:
"How was your flight?"
"Terrible! I thought I saw something on the wing!"
"No kidding? The same thing happened to me!"
Now THAT'S a well-done in-joke. :)
- --------------
Kelly St.Clair "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org Right here in fair Verona
With a capital T that rhymes with D
That stands for Duel..."
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 13:14:41 +1100
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Ghost Stories
Dear Folks -
Kelly wrote:
>PSIONICS: It should be remembered that Traveller is a setting where
powers
>of the mind are real. Perhaps in the moment of a particularly traumatic
>death, a latent psychic (or just an ordinary mind under the ultimate
>stress) can "burn" an impression into an object or even the very
>walls. Later, living minds might "play back" this psychic impression as
>anything from a nameless feeling of dread to a full-sensory hallucination.
Does anyone other than me remember "The Stone Tape", a one-shot British TV
story about something similar? (Or maybe I'm just old.) In Oz, it featured
on [Stuart] "Wagstaff's Playhouse" back in the early 70's, but most likely
appeared on UK TV around that time as well.
Freaked me out.
Hey - just had a brainstorm to search for it on the 'net - the entire
screenplay is available!! Take a look here:
http://horrorsuspense.bizland.com/scripts/StoneTape.htm
Here's some reviews (but read the above script first!!):
http://timescreen.virtualave.net/stonet.htm
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/ott/goldstonetapes.htm
The doco says it first aired on BCC TV, Dec 25, 1972 (I must have seen it
in '73, as an impressionable 8-y-o). Apparently the BBC used to commission
"ghost stories" to be aired each Christmas - hardly seasonal fare, but
that's what they did. This one was written by Nigel Kneale, who also wrote
the Quatermass TV serials. He interwove horror and technology into a gem of
a story, one that I've never forgotten. It starred Michael Bryant, Jane
Asher, Iain Cuthbertson, and Michael Bates.
Maybe one of our UK residents got to see it at Nottingham's "Out Of Sight"
film festival in June last year?
Anyway, you may be interested in Kneale's attitude towards science-fiction
(especially since he considers himself to be a _drama_ writer who simply
uses s-f as a vehicle. this is taken from a 1985 interview at
http://timescreen.virtualave.net/darkdo.htm:
[Kneale] "[In the early days of TV] you were more receptive to suggestion,
and of course that was good, It was an advantage in implying things, that
you had an audience that prepared to co-operate, that already was halfway
imagining things that they couldn't quite see perhaps. I think now we've
got a much lazier audience, certainly an audience that demands, and has
been given by every Spielberg epic, high-gloss definition without, very
often, much content."
[Question from Andrew Pixley]"Had Nigel found himself limited at all by the
facilities available for his story telling?
[Kneale] "No, because I knew what the technology was. I knew we had very
little and that is why the Quatermass stories were written as they were,
with very little dependence on special effects. The stories are told
through the characters and the action and they are also earthbound. We
didn't take off into space, except on one occasion at the end of QUATERMASS
II. The stories are very firmly on Earth, and depend completely on detailed
character."
"Now that is one area where an awful lot of science fiction stuff, so far
as I've seen, collapses. It doesn't just weaken, it collapses, because
there are very few coherent characters. Construction of the story is often
rotten and is waiting to be saved by the special effects. If you haven't
got a special effects team, you have to do something else - you've got to
tell your story in a way that works largely without effects, and then the
effects come in as a bonus. All too often nowadays, expensive films do
depend on them and that's why we have this increasingly dry, hugely
expensive stuff coming out of Hollywood. Dry in the real sense because the
things are devoid of character. And that goes for an awful lot of
science-fiction. That's why I don't really count myself as a
science-fiction writer, because I find the characters and the settings far
more interesting than sparks flying."
Perhaps someone should tell Hollywood.
Or at least Loren, for when he writes his definitive Trav screenplay. ;-)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:31:16 +1100
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: OT Question: Monitor sizes
Dear Folks -
Tod replied to Doug:
>>I'm curious as to what size monitors y'all have...
>
>I usually build pages for an 800x600 monitor. That seems to be pretty
>standard.
Agreed.
- - Hyphen
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:45:41 +1100
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Ghost stories
Dear Folks -
Kelly wrote:
>A Zhodani prole... okay, I'm stuck there. Anyone else?
Things From The Core.
Things That Man (well, Zho's, anyway) Was Not Meant To Disturb.
(The worrying part for the Zho's is that this fear may not turn out to be
unfounded! ;-) ;-).
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 22:44:49 -0600
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Ghost stories
At 02:53 PM 3/22/2001 -0500, Jonathan McDermott wrote:
>ObTrav: Cymbelline chips and Kinunir AI's aside, the Model/2 computer in
>the character's ship has been used almost constantly for decades, and the
>captain has been with the ship for ten years. A trade mission goes
>horribly wrong, and the captain gets killed on the gangplank, just before
>the ship flees the planet. The computer starts to greive, and the
>characters are stuck on the ship for a week during jump. What if the
>computer wonks out with the jump drive initiation? Or... what if the ship
>doesn't want to come out of jump? Certainly might be harder to deal with
>(and make a better plot device than a plot/character) than the bomb in
>Dark Star.
Sounds kind of like Anne McCaffrey's Dragons, going "between" (and not
coming back) with grief when their rider dies.
Jimmy Simpson
nimrodd@mail.com
"The avalanche has already started.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
-Kosh Naranek (Babylon 5)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 23:03:00 -0600
From: "Matthew W. Helton" <mwhelton@cox-internet.com>
Subject: Re: OT Question: Monitor sizes
I run Dual 17" monitors at 1164x864 under Win2K...Jaded I may be, but I do
AutoCAD...
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au>
To: <traveller@ient.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: OT Question: Monitor sizes
> Dear Folks -
>
> Tod replied to Doug:
> >>I'm curious as to what size monitors y'all have...
> >
> >I usually build pages for an 800x600 monitor. That seems to be pretty
> >standard.
>
> Agreed.
>
> - Hyphen
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 22:28:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Justin Engler <justinengler@yahoo.com>
Subject: Central Supply Catalog Listing?
(I've been lurking for a while, so I don't know if I
count as a newbie and therefore are required to do an
essay or not :)
It would figure that as soon as I get a Traveller game
going in my new locality (Moscow, ID), my copy of CSC
would go missing. Seeing as how I've read it enough
times to remember most of the descriptions, does
anyone have or know of a listing of the stuff in the
CSC? (Or willing to type one up as a spreadsheet or
something?) I tried my local game store (yes, we do
have a game store in Moscow, ID) and had no luck. I
just don't feel I can offer my players a complete
experience without the Amaze the Natives Kit...can
anyone help me?
- Justin
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 02:42:02 -0500
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Ghost stories
> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 02:27:43 -0800 (PST)
> From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Ghost stories
<snip>
> Now for a true "ghost" story.
I had a similar experience. Many years ago I lived a block away from
a mortuary (Morton's Mortuary in Grand Junction, CO in case anybody
is interested.) It's a rather non-descript 3 story building built with the
same tan bricks that every other building built in the 1960's was made
out of. In front of this building was a street light that only worked
intermitently. Which is to say sometimes it was on, sometimes it was
off, and other times it was kind of halfway on. I tend to keep rather odd
hours and I would frequently pass this light in the dead of night going to
and from wherever it was I was going to and from. Whenever I passed
under the light it would either start working if it wasn't already or stop
working if it was.
Now I'm not a big believer in ghosts (although being a good agnostic
I won't say that they can't exist) and the mortuary in question is one
of the least creepy buildings I've ever seen but eventually I started
going blocks out of my way to avoid this light. (by which I mean going
around the block the other way to get to the 24 hour store that was
one more block down the street from the light.) What did it mean?
I don't think it meant anything other than the bulb was defective but
since it hadn't completely failed the city hadn't gotten around to
replacing it.
Not much of an ending to be sure. As a side note the top floor of
the mortuary has a number of appartments that they rent out.
I understand they throw a heckuva Halloween party (sadly I was
never invited.)
David Shayne
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 09:54:41 +0200
From: Niko Mikkanen <niko.mikkanen@capslock.fi>
Subject: Re: Forms of address: a rebuttal
Glenn Goffin wrote:
> >From: William Lane <wlane@Asera.com>
> >>How are female knights of the Imperium addressed? "Lady"? That's
> Holders of Imperial titles, at least in my Traveller universe, use the
> following...
> Their spouses are usually, but not necessarily, entitled to the opposite
> gender version of the title.
>
> --Glenn
There's a rather good page about titles and forms of address at
http://laura.chinet.com/html/titles01.html
GNiko
- --
I intend to live forever - so far, so good
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3817
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3818
Date: | 3/23/01 9:25:15 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Friday, March 23 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3818
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
How to get out of the military [was: Re: Ghost stories]
Re: Decompressing Ships
RE: OT Question: Monitor sizes
RE: Decompressing Ships
RE: Central Supply Catalog Listing?
RE: OT Question: Monitor sizes
Re: Ghost stories
Re: Ghost stories
RE: Ghost stories
Re: Jump drive and damage (longish)
TNE Gearhead Question
3d deck plans
RE: Cutter Books and Deckplans
RE: Cutter Books and Deckplans
Re: TNE Gearhead Question
Re: Ghost Stories
RE: 3d deck plans
RE: 3d deck plans
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 10:53:49 +0200
From: Niko Mikkanen <niko.mikkanen@capslock.fi>
Subject: How to get out of the military [was: Re: Ghost stories]
sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> It seems there was the guy I talked to had been stationed on an
> aircraft carrier with someone (who I'll call X) who didn't like being in
> the Navy and wanted to be let out on a section 8. X's first attempt
> was the imaginary motorcycle. Wherever he was walking more
> than 5 or 6 feet on the ship he pretended he was riding a
> motorcycle (complete with sound effects and small details like
> turning the ignition). He did this continuously, whenever he had to
> go somewhere. X was also extremely consistent in remembering
> where he put he motorcycle when he got off to work, eat, or
> whatever... Eventually, many folks on the crew also knew where
> the motorcycle was, and some of them (including the person I
> talked to) eventually said they could actually see the damn thing.
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
In Finland, where there still is a mandatory national service, there are
many stories of people trying to get out on a "mental." One of the
stories is about a similar biker. The story ends with a doctor jumping
from behind a corner, with his thumb up, asking for a lift, at which
point the "biker" bursts out in laughter. No medical release for him...
Another story is of a guy who has a toothbrush on a string, and he keeps
"walking" the toothbrush wherever he goes. When someone approaches him
to ask why he is pulling a toothbrush on a string, he hands the string
to the asker answering "You try PUSHING it!"
And then there's the classic about a guy who picks up every single piece
of paper, from discarded candy wrappings to papers on the company
commanders desk, mutters "Nope, this one's not it" and discards the
paper. When he finally gets his medical release, he waves the paper in
the air and shouts "This is it!" :)
And don't even get me started on ways to get sick days. Some of them are
downright dangerous...
GNiko
- --
Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 11:01:55 +0200
From: Niko Mikkanen <niko.mikkanen@capslock.fi>
Subject: Re: Decompressing Ships
"Trevor, Peter" wrote:
> Press Release
> -------------
> Bozo Systems LIC introduces new CIMS (Combat Information
> Management System) for both starships and spacecraft. Since the
Sorry, old news. I came up with this years ago.
It's not actually quite as stupid an idea as it might sound (pun
intended) like at first. After all, we only have 5 senses (well, ok,
women might have 6. The jury is still out on that one, I think), so we
should use them all to the fullest.
Another thing I find annoying in SF movies is that _everything_ goes
*beep*: How long do you think a guy would stay sane on his keyboard if
_every_ _single_ keypress would produce a sound effect? But then I got
into thinking: Obviously, these things weren't designed for us older
people, content with the clacking of the keyboard: They're for the
Nintendo generation, who are used to getting all the sound effects from
_everything_. For them, a keyboard without beeps is only a short step
away from a sensory deprivation tank...
GNiko
- --
Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 10:15:07 -0000
From: Alun Moon <alun.moon@unn.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: OT Question: Monitor sizes
Hi folks...
> >I usually build pages for an 800x600 monitor. That seems to
> be pretty
> >standard.
I've been keeping a passing eye on this thread...
Since I teach HTML to students, can I put my Cr0.02 in.
*******Don't design for a specific monitor size*******
This causes more grief for more people with monitor sizes other
than that you have designed for.
A Psion 5mx has a 640x240 screen, Palm Pilot another size.
Web TV devices have another size (smaller that 800x600) I think.
I browse on a 1152x864 screen, but my browser window is set to
something like 600x800, or 600x400 or, ....
It as simply bas practice to design to a specific size, because
that rill rarely be what is in use, and your page will look very
poor, and people won't return to it.
<rant mode off>
What you can do is use relative sizes (percentages, em, ex)
to give hints to the browser on how to layout and format the
page. Note that these are hints and may be overridden by the
user looking at your page.
For example, someone I know would have trouble reading 12pt Font
on a screen, so would set there browser to have the base size for
normal paragraph text to be 14pt.
If you have designed your layout on a fixed pixel size, assuming
12pt Times font, and then the user views it at 14pt Arial, then
your layout becomes a mess.
CSS is useful for adding these hints, for formatting (colours, font
details etc, and layout). But layout is not yet universally supported.
So my advice to all is.
Get the content right first, then add the extra formatting and
layout hints. But do it in a way that degrades gracefully, which
is the way that the Internet is designed to work.
Cheers all
Alun
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Alun Moon Senior Lecturer in Computing
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 10:21:51 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Decompressing Ships
Niko Mikkanen wrote:
> "Trevor, Peter" wrote:
>
> > Press Release
> > -------------
> > Bozo Systems LIC introduces new CIMS (Combat Information
> > Management System) for both starships and spacecraft. Since the
>
> Sorry, old news. I came up with this years ago.
Rats! ;-)
Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 07:57:58 -0500
From: "C Michael" <swordworlder@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Central Supply Catalog Listing?
The Traveller Trader (www.travellertrader.com) happens to have a copy in
stock, priced at $5. I have a pile of T4 stuff here that I have not had a
chance to list, yet. Almost a full set of the BBBs (Bog Black Books). Just a
thought ;)
Now, about that essay...
_________________________________
The Traveller Trader
http://www.travellertrader.com
"The place to get that wonderful,
out-of-print Traveller stuff!"
mailto:sales@travellertrader.com
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
(I've been lurking for a while, so I don't know if I
count as a newbie and therefore are required to do an
essay or not :)
It would figure that as soon as I get a Traveller game
going in my new locality (Moscow, ID), my copy of CSC
would go missing. Seeing as how I've read it enough
times to remember most of the descriptions, does
anyone have or know of a listing of the stuff in the
CSC? (Or willing to type one up as a spreadsheet or
something?) I tried my local game store (yes, we do
have a game store in Moscow, ID) and had no luck. I
just don't feel I can offer my players a complete
experience without the Amaze the Natives Kit...can
anyone help me?
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 01:12:23 +1200
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: OT Question: Monitor sizes
Jens Rydholm wrote :
> Antony Farrell wrote:
> > Then don't try to position things on a page.
> > HTML is a content mark-up language, not a
> > layout language. That's what CSS is for.
>
> Agree in full.
>
> > And yuo shouldn't use tables either, because
> > they stuff up vocal browsers.
>
> That's probably taking things a bit far ;-)
Yeah, but it's a W3C recommendation, and a requirement if you want to
declare yourself as a fully "accesible" web-site. (I.E: one that caters to
people with special needs properly.)
Won't be too long before US government web sites are required to be
complaiant to this recommendation in order to avoid suits under the
Americans with Disabilities Act, a lot of them already are compliant, or
working toward it.
> > I haven't used CSS yet, what do people think about Style sheets?
>
> Style sheets seriously mess with some browsers (like mine).
> I get all sorts of problems with text that is overlapping
> other text paragrafs etc.
Then get a better browser <grin>
Actually there is only one browser I know of that is reasonably good at CSS
layout, and that's
Opera. It's also good at ECMA script (the javascript standard), and proper
table layout
I.E and Netscape are crap at just about everything !
But most of them handle font type, style, point size and colouring
correctly, so at least all of your text colours and fonts should be set
using CSS. You're pretty much a fool not to, as it makes web site
mainteneance and modification far easier.
For instance I changed the look of my entire web site just by editing a few
colour and font settings in my CSS file, no HTML changes required,
automatically affects every page on the site. Once you start playing with
them, you'll wonder why you ever did things another way.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 08:42:36 -0500
From: "Rob Davenport" <rgd@ohio.voyager.net>
Subject: Re: Ghost stories
[Sorry about that last blank post, misfire I guess.
Here it is in more readable form...]
Weird - after reading this (and the other posts about ghost stories and fears
in the 3I today), I looked at another PC at work that's running the
OpenScreens screensaver (where anyone can post a message that appears on your
screensaver [1]), and the one that was displayed was:
El miedo es la realidad de tu interior
(The fear that you feel is the reality of what is inside you)
- Ruiz -
Don't know if it applies, but it seemed an interesting
coincidence.
Rob
[1] OpenScreens -
http://www.antimensch.de/projects/openscreens/
On 21 Mar 2001, at 8:47, Douglas Berry wrote:
> At 02:27 AM 03/21/01 -0800, you wrote:
>
> >Now for a true "ghost" story.
>
> True ghost stories?
>
> I used to be a tour guide at the Winchester Mystery House. When we said we
> worked for Mrs, Winchester, we weren't joking.
>
> The 3rd floor always freaked me out. Orignally, it was mostly servants
> quarters. On the tour, it is one long corridor leading to the butler's
> sitting room. At this point, you wait for the tour to catch up (some
> people insist on videotaping every nail) then make them jump by
> demostrating the call bells.
>
> More than once I felt that I was being watched (not by tourists) and on one
> memorable occassion I felt something *breathing* down my neck. It got to
> the point that I refused to clean that floor.
>
> Yes, the guides cleaned the mansion.. we were the only ones who knew it
> well enough to duck tour groups.
> --
>
> Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
>
> "Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
> sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger
Rob
- ---
Rob Davenport 0301 C438875-B 713
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:54:42 +0200
From: Niko Mikkanen <niko.mikkanen@capslock.fi>
Subject: Re: Ghost stories
Rob Davenport wrote:
> (The fear that you feel is the reality of what is inside you)
>
> - Ruiz -
>
> Don't know if it applies, but it seemed an interesting
> coincidence.
>
> Rob
Actually, my random .sig generator has a worrying tendency to pickt a
quote that applies to the email I am writing. Well, not now, but it does
that often enough that it feels spooky, and I have commented about it to
people on several occasions...
GNiko
- --
I look just like the girls next door... if you happen to live next door
to an amusement park.
- -- Dolly Parton
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 08:40:06 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Ghost stories
> What about the prole who accidentally sees some paperwork revealing
> that his wife was once a psychotic murderer who killed her previous
> husband - and then the nice people from the Tavrchedl' took her in,
> reprogrammed her, wiped her memories and released her back into
> society. She seems perfectly normal now, but he keeps watching her,
> waiting for signs that her old personality will surface. He tells
> himself that he's imagining things, that there isn't really a mad
> killer lurking behind her eyes, that the meals she cooks aren't
> intended to poison him, that she isn't planning to suffocate him with
> her pillow at night... Eventually he snaps, and kills her himself -
> in "self-defence." Of course the Tavrchedl' move in at this point,
> take him away to be cured of his paranoia, rehabilitated, and made
> back into a functional member of society. After a time he's cured,
> and they allow him to return to a normal life. Soon he meets a nice
> girl, marries her, and settles down.
> Until one day she accidentally sees some paperwork revealing that her
> husband was once a psychotic murderer who killed his previous wife...
>
I kind of like the idea, but whether it works or not depends on YTU. In
canon the Tavrchedl' are more proactive in mental health care, which is why
crime rates are so low in the Consulate and why it's citizens feel safe and
secure (this last is generally not due to brainwashing). However, it would
make a good shaggy dog story for non-Jodies to tell
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 10:07:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: Re: Jump drive and damage (longish)
Ian Whitchurch writes:
>>From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
>
>>At 10:26 AM -0400 3/16/01, Ian Ferguson wrote:
>
>>IMTU, the jump field theoretically needs no power once set up, but
>>you end up needing a small amount of power due to non-ideal losses.
>>That gives a GM something to hit players with.
Just to clarify, that was David's TU.
>This really affects the economics of space travel, as the optimum way to do
a commercial starship is to
>use a small power plant and a honking big battery pack to run the jump
drive until you are in jump.
>This will substantially cut the cost of commercial starships.
>It wont affect military starships much, as they tend to have a 'power
curve' that is higher in normal
>space than jumpspace, which is the reverse of most commercial shipping.
As it happens, in LBB2 it is not necessary to supply a power plant
with a rating at
least equal to the jump drive rating. The power plant must be up to
the standard
of the maneuver drive, and there is even one well-known ship design
with jump 4
and no power plant (the good old X-boat).
and later:
>>(DS) I'm not sure I follow. It is a slight variation on the standard "the
>>jump fuel is all used at the start of the jump" view.
>A standard starship therefore needs to run lights, maybe heat, maybe
cooling, maybe some artificial
>gravity, and some electronics during jump. Probably about 3 megawatts for a
200 dton Far Trader,
>absolute tops. It needs to provide a lot more than that when the jump drive
needs power.
>If you only need to juice the jump drive during the 20 (or so) minutes of
jump entry, then you buy a
>much smaller, much cheaper main power plant, and a battery pack to charge
up the jump drive. Under
>FFS2, batteries are a couple of orders of magnitude cheaper than fusion or
fission plants (The
>Abomination Known As Fusion Plus I will leave to one side, because it also
does bad things to the
>economics).
You still need power for the maneuver drive, in fact according to
LBB2 that is all you need.
Even if you go with HG2 (or other versions that require lots of
power plant for jumping), it
may easily be explained in terms of supplying fusing plasma to the
jump drive rather than
simply power. Remember that even if you have your jump capacitors
charged up, it can be
argued that you still need a functioning power plant at least up to
the rating of the jump to
initiate that jump.
>Therefore, ships that have a honking big fusion plant will be far more
expensive than 'hybrids' that use
>battery packs to charge the jump drive, and a small power plant to run the
normal ship functions (note
>that you could build a little overage into the power plant, recharge the
battery pack en route, and then
>use it to provide the maneuver power).
Only if you are using a maneuver drive that doesn't need a
functioning power plant.
>Thus, the hybrid designs would out-compete 'conventional' vessels, thus
eventually driving them into
>extinction.
>Finally, under FFS2 you can build a jump-capable battery-powered starship.
It's an FS skunkworks
>project ...
If FFS2 is the way you want to go, but in a broader context I don't
see any more problem with
turning off the jump drive during jump than there are for many other
things in Traveller.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 07:27:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com>
Subject: TNE Gearhead Question
Is there any way to increase the power output of muscle-powered
machines? The rules in WTH seem to suggest that power output is based
solely upon the mass of the critter doing the work. Would gearing
(like a bicycle) increase this output, or is this one of those pulley
things (increasing the number of pulleys in a block makes lifting
easier, but the rope must move through a longer pull, so the same
amount of energy is used)?
=====
Gerry Harris
**********************************************************************************************
Æther Traveller — http://www.aethertraveller.com
Soldier's Companion — http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html
**********************************************************************************************
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war" — Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1
**********************************************************************************************
__________________________________________________
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Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 09:39:21 -0600
From: "Donavan L." <dlambertus@dtgnet.com>
Subject: 3d deck plans
Greets to all once again.
Has anyone taken a shot at doing 3d deck plans? Complete with interiors,
fixtures, etc? One of my players wanted to take a shot at a Traveller
campaign, and had a pretty cool character concept in mind that included a
custom ship. I designed the ship (using Tom Bont's GTS program - Thanks
Tom!) and, being a tinkerer with 3d rendering programs, decided to see if I
could work up 3d deckplans to go with it. You can see what I've got so far
at
http://lightning.prohosting.com/~navanod/traveller/raider.htm
There you'll find the ship design and a VERY basic picture of my progress so
far. At this point, it doesn't have anything beside the crew compartment
detailed - everything else is a just a basic shape to outline the rough
volume. Very few doors, etc. Yes, it's rude, crude, and blocky, I know. ;)
Once I get the interior details worked out, I plan on building the actual
hull around it and seeing how it looks.
What do you all think? Has anyone else done anything like this? Is there
interest in this kind of thing? Anything that looks blatantly wrong?
Donavan L.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 08:09:09 -0800
From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Cutter Books and Deckplans
At 09:47 AM 03/22/01 -0800, you wrote:
>Who's Jeese? ;) Thanks. It was fun! Anyone notice the carry-over from
>Ground Forces yet? <hint hint>
Paycheck at noon, Game Scape by two, I'll be here by four with my answer.
:)
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 08:24:57 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: Cutter Books and Deckplans
LOL!!!
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Douglas Berry
> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 8:09 AM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: RE: Cutter Books and Deckplans
>
>
> At 09:47 AM 03/22/01 -0800, you wrote:
> >Who's Jeese? ;) Thanks. It was fun! Anyone notice the carry-over from
> >Ground Forces yet? <hint hint>
>
> Paycheck at noon, Game Scape by two, I'll be here by four with my answer.
> :)
> --
>
> Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
>
> "Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
> sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:18:46 +0100
From: "Tage Borg" <tage@hem.passagen.se>
Subject: Re: TNE Gearhead Question
Gerry wrote:
> Is there any way to increase the power output of muscle-powered
> machines? The rules in WTH seem to suggest that power output is based
> solely upon the mass of the critter doing the work. Would gearing
> (like a bicycle) increase this output, or is this one of those pulley
> things (increasing the number of pulleys in a block makes lifting
> easier, but the rope must move through a longer pull, so the same
> amount of energy is used)?
When you find out how to increase output so that 1 Watt == 2 Watts (or even
just 1.1 Watt) without adding energy, let me know. I'll register the patent
for the device and you can have a couple percent of my... err, your Nobel
Prize. ;-)
Jokes aside, it's a pulley thing. The mass of the critters doing the work is
probably not the most exact way to calculate the critters' energy output
capabilities, but it is generic enough to work for an RPG.
/Tage
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:37:43 +0000
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Ghost Stories
<snip wonderful story from Stephen Tempest>
What about the prole who accidentally sees some paperwork revealing
that his wife was once a psychotic murderer who killed her previous
husband - and then the nice people from the Tavrchedl' took her in,
reprogrammed her, wiped her memories and released her back into
society. She seems perfectly normal now, but he keeps watching her,
waiting for signs that her old personality will surface. He tells
himself that he's imagining things, that there isn't really a mad
killer lurking behind her eyes, that the meals she cooks aren't
intended to poison him, that she isn't planning to suffocate him with
her pillow at night... Eventually he snaps, and kills her himself -
in "self-defence." Of course the Tavrchedl' move in at this point,
take him away to be cured of his paranoia, rehabilitated, and made
back into a functional member of society. After a time he's cured,
and they allow him to return to a normal life. Soon he meets a nice
girl, marries her, and settles down.
Until one day she accidentally sees some paperwork revealing that her
husband was once a psychotic murderer who killed his previous wife...
<end snip>
Surely, this is a Solomani *(black) comedy* rather than a ghost story!?
tc
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 09:22:19 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: 3d deck plans
While I hadn't directly thought (for some reason :)~ of doing deckplans like
this myself, I DID see some for 2300AD that were similar and I thought were
cool. What I've been planning....no, that's not the right phrase. What
I've WANTED to do (but haven't had the time for) for a long time is a full
tilt 3D interior of one of my Acipiter class ships. Completely detailed &
textured. I'm hoping I can finally do this for the Starships book, even if
it's NOT one of my Acip designs. Kinda' like an updated version of the SoM
interior drawings.
Great work! One thing I'd suggest is getting more contrast in your lighting
arrangement. You don't neccessarily have to turn on shadow tracing in your
3D program, but you need to get some depth in the hallway lighting.
**** ~15 minute creative break ****
Okay, I threw together a VERY quick example at:
http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/dp_lighting.htm
Doing something like that example will make your effort that much more
useful and enjoyable to look at. If you don't have control of the shadow
casting of different light sources in your software package, I hope you can
at least add two lights set up like the first picture on that page.
YMMV :)
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Donavan L.
> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 7:39 AM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: 3d deck plans
>
>
> Greets to all once again.
>
> Has anyone taken a shot at doing 3d deck plans? Complete with interiors,
> fixtures, etc? One of my players wanted to take a shot at a Traveller
> campaign, and had a pretty cool character concept in mind that included a
> custom ship. I designed the ship (using Tom Bont's GTS program - Thanks
> Tom!) and, being a tinkerer with 3d rendering programs, decided
> to see if I
> could work up 3d deckplans to go with it. You can see what I've
> got so far
> at
>
> http://lightning.prohosting.com/~navanod/traveller/raider.htm
>
> There you'll find the ship design and a VERY basic picture of my
> progress so
> far. At this point, it doesn't have anything beside the crew compartment
> detailed - everything else is a just a basic shape to outline the rough
> volume. Very few doors, etc. Yes, it's rude, crude, and blocky,
> I know. ;)
>
> Once I get the interior details worked out, I plan on building the actual
> hull around it and seeing how it looks.
>
> What do you all think? Has anyone else done anything like this? Is there
> interest in this kind of thing? Anything that looks blatantly wrong?
>
> Donavan L.
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 09:21:53 -0800
From: William Lane <wlane@Asera.com>
Subject: RE: 3d deck plans
Well i think it looks nice. and im sure when you finish it i would love to
see it.
hasta
Bill
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Donavan L. [mailto:dlambertus@dtgnet.com]
> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 7:39 AM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: 3d deck plans
>
>
> Greets to all once again.
>
> Has anyone taken a shot at doing 3d deck plans? Complete
> with interiors,
> fixtures, etc? One of my players wanted to take a shot at
> a Traveller
> campaign, and had a pretty cool character concept in mind
> that included a
> custom ship. I designed the ship (using Tom Bont's GTS
> program - Thanks
> Tom!) and, being a tinkerer with 3d rendering programs,
> decided to see if I
> could work up 3d deckplans to go with it. You can see what
> I've got so far
> at
>
> http://lightning.prohosting.com/~navanod/traveller/raider.htm
>
> There you'll find the ship design and a VERY basic picture of
> my progress so
> far. At this point, it doesn't have anything beside the crew
> compartment
> detailed - everything else is a just a basic shape to outline
> the rough
> volume. Very few doors, etc. Yes, it's rude, crude, and
> blocky, I know. ;)
>
> Once I get the interior details worked out, I plan on
> building the actual
> hull around it and seeing how it looks.
>
> What do you all think? Has anyone else done anything like
> this? Is there
> interest in this kind of thing? Anything that looks blatantly wrong?
>
> Donavan L.
>
>
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3818
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3819
Date: | 3/23/01 6:17:01 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Friday, March 23 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3819
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: TNE Gearhead Question
Real world travelling: Madison, Wisconsin
RE: 3d deck plans
RE: 3d deck plans
RE: 3d deck plans
Re: Decompressing Ships
Looking for European Cons....
Re: 3d deck plans
RE: Central Supply Catalog Listing?
Re: Ghost stories
RE: 3d deck plans
Re: Forms of address: a rebuttal
re: Central Supply Catalog Listing?
RE: 3d deck plans
(Fwd) Re: Decompressing Ships
Re: Traveller Screenplay
Re: Traveller Screenplay
Ghost Stories and the TML
Re: Ghost stories
Re: Ghost stories
Re: Ghost stories
RE: Ghost Stories and the TML
Re: Deja Vu All Over Again
Re: TNE Gearhead Question
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 09:23:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: TNE Gearhead Question
Gerry Harris writes:
> Is there any way to increase the power output of muscle-powered
> machines? The rules in WTH seem to suggest that power output is based
> solely upon the mass of the critter doing the work. Would gearing
> (like a bicycle) increase this output, or is this one of those pulley
> things (increasing the number of pulleys in a block makes lifting
> easier, but the rope must move through a longer pull, so the same
> amount of energy is used)?
Well, to a certain degree energy output can be altered because the body is
better at some things than others, but in general its like the pully thing .
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 10:10:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com>
Subject: Real world travelling: Madison, Wisconsin
OK, this time I really am going to Madison. It looks like I'll be there
all or nearly all of next week. If anyone is there or in Milwaukee or
somewhere close and would like to get dinner or have a drink, email me.
If anyone has any recommendations for interesting things to do, again,
please email me. If I find anything of interest to the list, I'll post a
report. I will have my laptop and an internet connection.
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 13:25:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: RE: 3d deck plans
Donavan L. writes:
>Greets to all once again.
>Has anyone taken a shot at doing 3d deck plans? Complete with interiors,
>fixtures, etc?
I have made 3D cardboard models that a blind gamer found useful
in getting to know the layouts. Computer graphics is not a field
in which I excel.
<snipped>
>You can see what I've got so far at
>http://lightning.prohosting.com/~navanod/traveller/raider.htm
<snipped>
>Once I get the interior details worked out, I plan on building the actual
>hull around it and seeing how it looks.
>What do you all think? Has anyone else done anything like this? Is there
>interest in this kind of thing? Anything that looks blatantly wrong?
Pretty cool. The staterooms look like they have walls higher than
the stateroom is wide. Perhaps this is intentional, but I always
picture staterooms with something like a 3x3 m floor with a 2.25 m
ceiling. Let us know as you develop it.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 10:27:47 -0800
From: "Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>
Subject: RE: 3d deck plans
Jesse Degraff <jedegraf@cisco.com> writes:
>**** ~15 minute creative break ****
>Okay, I threw together a VERY quick example at:
>http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/dp_lighting.htm
Show-off. :^)
- Mark C.
mark f. cook * shoestring graphics & printing * markc@ssgfx.com
7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330 * http://www.ssgfx.com
Phone: 541-745-5709 Fax: 541-745-5818
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 10:41:53 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: 3d deck plans
LOL! That's what PRACTICE gets ya' ;)
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Mark F. Cook
> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 10:28 AM
> To: Traveller Mail List
> Subject: RE: 3d deck plans
>
>
> Jesse Degraff <jedegraf@cisco.com> writes:
>
> >**** ~15 minute creative break ****
> >Okay, I threw together a VERY quick example at:
> >http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/dp_lighting.htm
>
> Show-off. :^)
>
> - Mark C.
>
> mark f. cook * shoestring graphics & printing * markc@ssgfx.com
> 7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330 * http://www.ssgfx.com
> Phone: 541-745-5709 Fax: 541-745-5818
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 11:12:02 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Decompressing Ships
In mail you write:
> In lower tech ships, such as those in MT Hard times or TNE pocket empires
> spacesuits also tend to be bulkier and as far as I can remember task levels
> are harder, meaning errors are more likely. Whoops just depressed buttons 1
> through 4 instead of number 2...
>
> And besides the atmosphere (no pun intended) is heightened if sound can
> transmit. Sounds of tortured metal from stress, bangs of explosions etc.
> Look at the battle scenes inside ships in Babylon 5.
The *hull* can conduct those noises quite well, thank you.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 12:05:09 -0800 (PST)
From: AuricTech Shipyards <aurictech@esweeet.com>
Subject: Looking for European Cons....
Having settled in (temporarily) at Eagle Base, Bosnia, I have learned that I will be allowed to take up to two weeks leave over here. Since I really enjoyed meeting various TMLers during my BayCon trip last year, I therefore ask our list members on the European side of the Atlantic where and when are some cons I might attend? UK Gencon is high on my list, as I expect several TMLers to attend, but I'd be interested in other cons as well.
Note that the only Western European language (other than my American dialect form of English) I speak is a _very_ little bit of Spanish, so please take that into account in your advice.
==
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/colverber/travler.html
_____________________________________________________________
Free eSweeet Mail - http://www.esweeet.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 20:17:35
From: "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: 3d deck plans
>From: "Donavan L." <dlambertus@dtgnet.com>
>...
>Is there
>interest in this kind of thing>
>Donavan L.
>
>...
Very nice! After the 3D models, the next step would virtual walk throughs!
I'll have to give this a try. I've got a program that lets you draw a
"blueprint" and then it generates the walls and doors with characteristics
you specify.
I liked Jesse's notes on lighting. You could even add individual lights in
certain areas. Maybe we could start a library of standard parts (bunks,
seats, control panels, etc.)
John
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 12:57:56 -0800
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com>
Subject: RE: Central Supply Catalog Listing?
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Hi justin - I am just a hop, skip and jump away in the great berg of
Spokalu - and I have one that I might be willing to part with :)
Lemme know
- - -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Justin Engler
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 10:28 PM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: Central Supply Catalog Listing?
(I've been lurking for a while, so I don't know if I
count as a newbie and therefore are required to do an
essay or not :)
It would figure that as soon as I get a Traveller game
going in my new locality (Moscow, ID), my copy of CSC
would go missing. Seeing as how I've read it enough
times to remember most of the descriptions, does
anyone have or know of a listing of the stuff in the
CSC? (Or willing to type one up as a spreadsheet or
something?) I tried my local game store (yes, we do
have a game store in Moscow, ID) and had no luck. I
just don't feel I can offer my players a complete
experience without the Amaze the Natives Kit...can
anyone help me?
- Justin
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 21:00:12 GMT
From: TML@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)
Subject: Re: Ghost stories
"Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com> writes:
>I kind of like the idea, but whether it works or not depends on YTU. In
>canon the Tavrchedl' are more proactive in mental health care, which is why
>crime rates are so low in the Consulate and why it's citizens feel safe and
>secure (this last is generally not due to brainwashing).
I agree up to a point: normally the Tavrchedl' _would_ detect the
husband's growing paranoia before it developed to the point that he
killed his wife. However, screw-ups happen, even among the Zhodani -
and it's that kind of screw-up that becomes the stuff of urban legend.
Maybe the local branch of the Thought Police was understaffed, or the
noble in charge was lax and inefficient; or maybe the husband has an
unusual mutation that makes his mind harder to read, without it being
obvious that the telepathy is being blocked. Or perhaps the
Tavrchedl' did random spot-checks in the area, and by sheer
statistical fluke they missed out on this family every time.
Stephen
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 13:03:32 -0800
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com>
Subject: RE: 3d deck plans
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Mebby someone should resurrect the half-life mod for AHL...
Why just walk when you can shoot also? ;)
- - -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of John Lambert
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 8:18 PM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: Re: 3d deck plans
>From: "Donavan L." <dlambertus@dtgnet.com>
>...
>Is there
>interest in this kind of thing>
>Donavan L.
>
>...
Very nice! After the 3D models, the next step would virtual walk
throughs!
I'll have to give this a try. I've got a program that lets you draw a
"blueprint" and then it generates the walls and doors with
characteristics
you specify.
I liked Jesse's notes on lighting. You could even add individual
lights in
certain areas. Maybe we could start a library of standard parts
(bunks,
seats, control panels, etc.)
John
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com>
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f2YA8ASaDG51CGgHLqgbzQJU
=dpXE
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 13:04:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Forms of address: a rebuttal
>From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
>It depends on the model for (spoken) forms of address. If you use the
>English model, knight and baronet are both addressed as Sir/Lady [name].
>All other members of the peerage except Duke/Duchess are addressed as
>Lord/Lady [name]. Duke/Duchess are addressed as Your Grace.
I'm not following the English model. I only use Lord/Lady [Name] in the
case of members of a noble family who are not actual title holders. How
far from the title holder is a good question. First cousins probably get
the honorific, but what about great grandchildren? I haven't decided.
E.g., the Duke of Regina's truedaughter would be Lady Aledon. There may
be several people properly addressed as Lady Aledon.
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 13:07:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com>
Subject: re: Central Supply Catalog Listing?
>From: Justin Engler <justinengler@yahoo.com>
>It would figure that as soon as I get a Traveller game
>going in my new locality (Moscow, ID), my copy of CSC
Wow: Moscow, Idaho. I've drunk quite a bit of Scout Brew and related
beverages in Moscow. Memories of Moscow: The Plaid Palouse. Whitebird
Mountain. The Peppermint Club (no, wait, that's in Ontario, Oregon).
(Only one of the foregoing is a bar, and it's not anywhere near Moscow.)
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
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Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 13:09:57 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: 3d deck plans
Wish I had the time :)
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Tsykoduk
> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 1:04 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: RE: 3d deck plans
>
>
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Mebby someone should resurrect the half-life mod for AHL...
>
> Why just walk when you can shoot also? ;)
>
> - -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of John Lambert
> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 8:18 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: 3d deck plans
>
>
> >From: "Donavan L." <dlambertus@dtgnet.com>
> >...
> >Is there
> >interest in this kind of thing>
> >Donavan L.
> >
> >...
>
> Very nice! After the 3D models, the next step would virtual walk
> throughs!
>
> I'll have to give this a try. I've got a program that lets you draw a
> "blueprint" and then it generates the walls and doors with
> characteristics
> you specify.
>
> I liked Jesse's notes on lighting. You could even add individual
> lights in
> certain areas. Maybe we could start a library of standard parts
> (bunks,
> seats, control panels, etc.)
>
> John
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com>
>
> iQA/AwUBOru6JKMvJrXJnSV0EQLOPACg3suetQkbM+wC13L7pG0PI29KVh0AmwZ0
> f2YA8ASaDG51CGgHLqgbzQJU
> =dpXE
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:39:50 -0500
From: "Rob Davenport" <rgd@ohio.voyager.net>
Subject: (Fwd) Re: Decompressing Ships
On 23 Mar 2001, at 11:01, Niko Mikkanen wrote:
> "Trevor, Peter" wrote:
>
> > Press Release
> > -------------
> > Bozo Systems LIC introduces new CIMS (Combat Information
> > Management System) for both starships and spacecraft. Since the
>
> Sorry, old news. I came up with this years ago.
Me too. And a buddy of mine claimed to have thought of it when I told
him *my* idea.
Don't you just hate that? :)
(Maybe that's a factor in the technology stagnation effect - too many
people reinventing everything, duplicating efforts, and then the legal
wrangling over it. 1/2 <g>)
> It's not actually quite as stupid an idea as it might sound (pun
> intended) like at first. After all, we only have 5 senses (well, ok,
> women might have 6. The jury is still out on that one, I think), so we
> should use them all to the fullest.
>
> Another thing I find annoying in SF movies is that _everything_ goes
> *beep*: How long do you think a guy would stay sane on his keyboard if
> _every_ _single_ keypress would produce a sound effect? But then I got
> into thinking: Obviously, these things weren't designed for us older
> people, content with the clacking of the keyboard: They're for the
> Nintendo generation, who are used to getting all the sound effects from
> _everything_. For them, a keyboard without beeps is only a short step
> away from a sensory deprivation tank...
Interesting point.
I still think it's a useful idea to use the other senses to allow
users to gather more information in a given time, and playing to
evolutionarily enhanced senses makes sense too. (If that made sense...)
So what kind of multiple-sense input would the various races use?
Scent-sors for Vargr and/or Aslan? "VR" sonar landscapes for dolphins?
Hivers?
- --
Rob
More Slightly Less Common Latin Phrases:
Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est.
Yes, that is a very large amount of corn.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:04:53 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller Screenplay
In a message dated 23-Mar-01 1:55:05 AM Central Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:
> Perhaps someone should tell Hollywood.
>
> Or at least Loren, for when he writes his definitive Trav screenplay. ;-)
Well, I haven't started it, but I know how I'd approach it.
Aside: I am informed, by people who are supposed to know, that no agent will
consider a screenplay by anyone over 40 unless you already have a track
record (preferably other screen credits).
This could really depress me if I allowed it to.
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:26:11 -0600
From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" <sdaniels@playnet.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Screenplay
GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> Aside: I am informed, by people who are supposed to know, that no agent will
> consider a screenplay by anyone over 40 unless you already have a track
> record (preferably other screen credits).
>
> This could really depress me if I allowed it to.
Unless you know people in the biz, like good script readers
who tell agents what scripts are good and bad. ;-)
- -bloo
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 10:43:18 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Ghost Stories and the TML
Facinating discussion. Interesting thought occured to me
TML subscribers are probably not prone to wild flights of superstition, most
of us would consider themselves rational thinkers, many of us have formal
training in scientific method. But then again look at the stories being told
here. How many of us can honestly admit to never having had an
experience that triggered that primal part of our psyche that warns us of
the monsters lurking just beyond the firelight. Interesting how strong that
part of us is.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 20:24:08 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
Subject: Re: Ghost stories
On Fri, 23 Mar 2001 02:53:09 -0500 (EST), Jonathan McDermott
<caraig@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Or... what if the ship
>doesn't want to come out of jump?
OT: Hmmm... And Pernese dragons go _between_ when their riders die...
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
(ILink: news without the abuse. Ask via email.)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 20:35:26 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
Subject: Re: Ghost stories
On Fri, 23 Mar 2001 12:22:40 -0500 (EST), Niko Mikkanen
<niko.mikkanen@capslock.fi> wrote:
>Actually, my random .sig generator has a worrying tendency to pickt a
>quote that applies to the email I am writing. Well, not now, but it does
>that often enough that it feels spooky, and I have commented about it to
>people on several occasions...
Oh, yes, I know a _lot_ of people with sigmonsters. Never was adopted by
one, myself, though.
Someone came up with a plausible prosaic explanation for sigmonsters,
though - you tend to post on a certain set of topics that are of interest
to you - and you also tend to focus your reading on them. Sigs that you
collect will tend to be from the places that you read, and therefore will
match your reading/posting habits. So, when you randomly pick a sig, you
will have a "high" (as compared with purely random selection from the set
of all sigs everywhere in the world, which is apparently the "memetic set")
probability of the sig being apropos to the content of the post.
I prefer the sigmonster explanation. Keep yours well-fed.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
(ILink: news without the abuse. Ask via email.)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:44:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Ghost stories
Jeff Zeitlin writes:
> Someone came up with a plausible prosaic explanation for sigmonsters,
> though - you tend to post on a certain set of topics that are of interest
> to you - and you also tend to focus your reading on them. Sigs that you
> collect will tend to be from the places that you read, and therefore will
> match your reading/posting habits. So, when you randomly pick a sig, you
> will have a "high" (as compared with purely random selection from the set
> of all sigs everywhere in the world, which is apparently the "memetic set")
> probability of the sig being apropos to the content of the post.
There's also the normal selection effect of being more likely to notice when
a sig is apropos than when one is not, making the fraction which are
apropos seem higher than it really is.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 14:22:33 +1200
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: Ghost Stories and the TML
Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote :
> Facinating discussion. Interesting thought occured to me
>
> TML subscribers are probably not prone to wild flights of
> superstition, most of us would consider themselves
> rational thinkers, many of us have formal training
> in scientific method. But then again look at the stories
> being told here. How many of us can honestly admit to
> never having had an experience that triggered that
> primal part of our psyche that warns us of
> the monsters lurking just beyond the firelight.
> Interesting how strong that part of us is.
I'm someone who doesn't believe in gods, ghosts, spirits, or any other stuff
like that (though I find them great for roleplaying games and stories) and
can honestly say that unless I was _wanting_ to have such an experience, I
have never had one.
I have "had" a couple of expereinces like this, but in both cases I was keen
for such an experience to happen, because it would get the girl I was with
at the time more desirous of close physical contact.
However my experience has been that nothing technical works unless you give
it a "blood sacrifice" first.
That code bug you can't find becomes really obvious several seconds after
you acidentally get a papercut on the compiler documentation
That piece of hardware just won't install properly until you hand slips
during the eghiteenth attempt at getting the cable in right and you prick
yourself on something sharp on the case
The car won't start until the sapnner slips off the nut and you graze your
knuckles on the engine block, etc.
I haven't got as far as attemptiong to _intentionally_ make a blood
sacrifice when trying to fix something yet....
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:19:19 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Deja Vu All Over Again
In mail you write:
>> Message begins ...
>>
>> THIS IS THE TIME COUNCIL. IGNORE PREVIOUS MESSAGE FROM SO-CALLED
>> "TEMPORAL POLICE". THERE IS NO SUCH ORGANIZATION. THERE IS NO SUCH
>> THING AS A GLITCH IN THE SPACE-TIME CONTINUUM. CONTINUE ABOUT YOUR
>> BUSINESS AS IF NOTHING HAPPENED. WHICH IN FACT, IT DID... DIDN'T...
>> ERRRR, DID.... CURSE THIS PRIMITIVE LANGUAGE. YOU KNOW WHAT WE MEAN.
>> ALL WILL BE WELL AGAIN SHORTLY, ONCE WE MAKE A QUICK TRIP BACK TO
>> 1862 AND FIX THAT WHOLE CONFEDERATE-ARMY-ACCIDENTALLY-CONQUERING-
>> SWITZERLAND THING. WON'T TAKE BUT A MOMENT. LITERALLY. THANK YOU
>> FOR YOUR NON-ATTENTION TO THIS MATTER.
>>
>> Message ends ...
>
> Message begins ...
>
> THIS IS THE TEMPORAL POLICE. PLEASE IGNORE ANY MESSAGES FROM THE
> "TIME COUNCIL". THEY ARE FROM AN ALTERNATIVE BRANCHED REALITY
> THAT WILL SHORTLY NEVER HAVE EXISTED. AFTER THAT YOU WILL NOT
> HAVE RECEIVED ANY MESSAGES FROM THEM. YOU MAY REST ASSURED THAT
> THE CONFEDERATE ARMY'S GLORIOUS VICTORY OVER SWITZERLAND IN THE
> PAST WILL BE PRESERVED. THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION. HAVE A
> NICE DAY.
>
> Message ends ...
Pardon me? "Switzerland"? In 1862? Those rebellious peasants were
suppressed and became the Duchy of Helvetia in 1507. Please try to keep
your history straight.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:23:44 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: TNE Gearhead Question
In mail you write:
> Is there any way to increase the power output of muscle-powered
> machines? The rules in WTH seem to suggest that power output is based
> solely upon the mass of the critter doing the work. Would gearing
> (like a bicycle) increase this output, or is this one of those pulley
> things (increasing the number of pulleys in a block makes lifting
> easier, but the rope must move through a longer pull, so the same
> amount of energy is used)?
You can't increase the energy. That's fixed by the output of the animal.
You can increase *force* (ie how hard it pulls/pushes) at the expense
of speed.
Energy = force * distance moved
Consider the way the gears on your bike work. You don't have to pedal
as *hard* (less force) but you have to pedal a lot faster.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3819
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3820
Date: | 3/24/01 10:55:46 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Saturday, March 24 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3820
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Ghost stories
RE: OT Question: Monitor sizes
RE: OT Question: Monitor sizes
Re: Ghost stories
Re: Traveller Screenplay
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3819
Re: Central Supply Catalog Listing?
RE: 3d deck plans
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3819
Re: Forms of address: a rebuttal
Re: Looking for European Cons....
Re: Traveller Screenplay
RE: 3d deck plans
Trav 3D Group
RE: Trav 3D Group
RE: Ghost Stories and the TML
RE: 3d deck plans
Joining the Trav 3D Group
Re: Ghost Stories and the TML
RE: 3d deck plans
RE: Forms of address: a question
Re: A Ghost by any other name
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 21:25:30 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
Subject: Re: Ghost stories
On Fri, 23 Mar 2001 21:15:45 -0500 (EST), Anthony Jackson
<ajackson@molly.iii.com> wrote:
>There's also the normal selection effect of being more likely to notice when
>a sig is apropos than when one is not, making the fraction which are
>apropos seem higher than it really is.
True; I'd forgotten about that effect.
I still prefer sigmonsters. :)
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
(ILink: news without the abuse. Ask via email.)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 20:22:21 -0600
From: Charles R Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net>
Subject: RE: OT Question: Monitor sizes
Frankie wrote:
>Actually there is only one browser I know of that is reasonably good at
CSS
>layout, and that's Opera. It's also good at ECMA script (the
javascript standard), and >proper table layout
Opera is only available as a "Technology Preview" for the Macintosh.
which will only work til the end of this month.
Andd DON'T tell me to get a different computer.
Charles R Hensley
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 21:40:12 -0500
From: Justin Kim <justinki@bellatlantic.net>
Subject: RE: OT Question: Monitor sizes
I'm running right now at 1152x768 (Apple Titanium Powerbook).
My desktops usually run at 1027x768.
Generally speaking, I design web pages to display well at
800x600. One ought to design pages that will scale well to almost
any resolution. Practically speaking, this isn't always possible or
desirable. 800x600 seems like a good target nowadays.
Justin
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 13:55:20 +1100
From: "Jeffrey Malone" <nparker1971@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: Ghost stories
A ghost story with a military spin of sorts...
In some armies (by recollection, French and Russian, may be others) there is
a tradition of keeping an additional made-up bunk in the barracks, in memory
of those those who served and paid the ultimate price. The ghost story goes
along these lines...the unit returns to its barracks after a particularly
hard-fought campaign, missing a few memorable members. Along with
tradition, an additional bunk bed is made up for the fallen. Every morning,
the bed is messed up. No body in the company will own up, no body in the
rest of the battalion will own up. A watch is kept and nothing happens.
But as soon as the watch is no longer maintained, the bed is messed up
again.
A new guy comes into the company, and is given the bunk where X used to be.
He has terrible nightmares, and can never sleep there. Gear in his locker
(which used to be X's locker) is moved about, and nobody will own up.
As a Traveller example:
A member of an embarked Marine unit is killed in an accident aboard ship
whilst it is in jumpspace. In keeping with tradition, a bunk is kept made
up for him. Every time the ship goes into jumpspace, on the third day in
(the day X was killed in the accident) the bunk gets messed up. Never
happens in N-space. Sometimes Marines (and only Marines) onboard see him in
their dreams or in reflections off polished surfaces, when the ship is in
jump space. He is dressed in damage control rig, and has a long, sad
face. "Help me come home" he whispers sadly, then vanishes...
J.M. Malone
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 18:46:46 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Screenplay
GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote
> > Perhaps someone should tell Hollywood.
> > Or at least Loren, for when he writes his definitive Trav screenplay. ;-)
> Well, I haven't started it, but I know how I'd approach it.
> Aside: I am informed, by people who are supposed to know, that no agent will
> consider a screenplay by anyone over 40
Thirty. Supposedly Hollywood wants to hire teenagers (since they
can supposedly identify with the primary target audience, is
willing to hire people in their twenties, and is quite hostile
to hiring people in their thirties.
- --
Did you ever wonder if Lassie had Munchausen by Proxy?
Timmy sure seemed to fall down a lot of wells.
Peter Newman pnewman@gci.net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 22:05:29 -0600
From: "Donavan L." <dlambertus@dtgnet.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3819
>Very nice! After the 3D models, the next step would virtual walk throughs!
>Pretty cool. The staterooms look like they have walls higher than
>the stateroom is wide. Perhaps this is intentional, but I always
>picture staterooms with something like a 3x3 m floor with a 2.25 m
>ceiling. Let us know as you develop it.
Well, that was one of the things I wasn't too sure about. I'm working from
(mostly) GT with a smattering of CT references. In GT (pg 153) it assumes 6
1-yard squares, with headroom of 8-9 feet and some space under the decks is
one dton. The staterooms I used are 3 yd x 3 yd x 3 yd, which I thought may
be a bit tall. Can anyone give me some hard references on this? I did some
test renders from a camera actually inside the ship, and it seems awfully
claustrophobic (although no worse than submarines, from what I've seen).
Oh, before I forget - fun with doors. Hatches are no problem, the one that
threw me were the dimensions of iris valves. How tall are they? Are they
circular, oblong, or something else?
>I'll have to give this a try. I've got a program that lets you draw a
>"blueprint" and then it generates the walls and doors with characteristics
>you specify.
Hmmm...what's it called? Sounds pretty nifty.
>I liked Jesse's notes on lighting. You could even add individual lights in
>certain areas.
Already under way. For interior renders, I plan to use as much lighting as
I can get away with. Note to Jesse - thanks a ton for the tutorial.
Sometime tomorrow I'll re-render it and post it on the web so everybody can
see what a difference it makes.
>Maybe we could start a library of standard parts (bunks,
>seats, control panels, etc.)
That brings me to an interesting question - do "canon" pictures of cockpits,
seats, and other fixtures exist someplace out there? I would think as
technology progresses, a "less is more" philosophy would develop - controls
would become less cluttered, easier to use, etc. (I'm loathe to use Star
Trek as an example, but the LCARS system is a pretty good concept). If you
have ideas, concepts, sketches, whatever, I'd be more than happy to take a
crack at modeling them.
As for a library of parts, that idea sounds like a winner. Hell, unless
somebody else wants the job, I'd be happy to collect 'em and put up a web
page for them.
Thanks to all
Donavan L.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 22:17:33 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@home.com>
Subject: Re: Central Supply Catalog Listing?
Justin Engler wrote:
> (I've been lurking for a while, so I don't know if I
> count as a newbie and therefore are required to do an
> essay or not :)
>
> It would figure that as soon as I get a Traveller game
> going in my new locality (Moscow, ID), my copy of CSC
> would go missing. Seeing as how I've read it enough
> times to remember most of the descriptions, does
> anyone have or know of a listing of the stuff in the
> CSC? (Or willing to type one up as a spreadsheet or
> something?) I tried my local game store (yes, we do
> have a game store in Moscow, ID)
Moscow has a game store?!? Damn, life moves on.......
When last I was in that neck of the woods Merlins in
Spokane was the one place.
- --
"Fortes fortuna juvat"
Evyn
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition."
-- William Shakespeare, King Henry the Fifth, IV:iii:60-63
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 06:39:10
From: "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: 3d deck plans
>>I'll have to give this a try. I've got a program that lets you draw a
>>"blueprint" and then it generates the walls and doors with characteristics
>>you specify.
>Hmmm...what's it called? Sounds pretty nifty.
The program is "Stanley Home Design Software" and is intended for building
or remodeling projects to help you visualize what you are doing. I paid
$39.99 at Best Buy a little over a year ago when we were planning our cabin.
You draw a blueprint type layout and the program adds the third dimension.
In addition to roofs, walls, doors, etc., there are cabinets, furniture, etc
that can be resized. You can also import DXF objects. The view of the scene
can be changed and saved as an image file. The resulting designs can also be
exported as a DXF file and imported into programs that do a better job of
rendering. Wall hatches might be a problem in the program itself, but could
be added in another program.
If I get my taxes done, I'll try to do a quick layout this weekend.
John
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 23:22:18 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3819
Note to Jesse - thanks a ton for the tutorial.
> Sometime tomorrow I'll re-render it and post it on the web so
> everybody can
> see what a difference it makes.
You're welcome :)
> As for a library of parts, that idea sounds like a winner. Hell, unless
> somebody else wants the job, I'd be happy to collect 'em and put up a web
> page for them.
>
> Thanks to all
>
> Donavan L.
This is what the Trav 3D group was formed for. As I got busy with SJG stuff
again, it never took off much beyond the mailing list. A page mockup is
here:
http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/trav3d/trav3d1.htm
Let me know if you're interested. Maybe some new blood is what we need to
get the program kickstarted :)
Looking forward to more!
Jesse
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 01:14:35 -0800
From: sneadj@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: Forms of address: a rebuttal
Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
>
> >It depends on the model for (spoken) forms of address. If you use
> >the English model, knight and baronet are both addressed as Sir/Lady
> >[name]. All other members of the peerage except Duke/Duchess are
> >addressed as Lord/Lady [name]. Duke/Duchess are addressed as Your
> >Grace.
>
> I'm not following the English model. I only use Lord/Lady [Name] in
> the case of members of a noble family who are not actual title
> holders. How far from the title holder is a good question. First
> cousins probably get the honorific, but what about great
> grandchildren? I haven't decided.
>
> E.g., the Duke of Regina's truedaughter would be Lady Aledon. There
> may be several people properly addressed as Lady Aledon.
Of course, such terms could easily not be gendered. There might
be either a single label for each rank, or perhaps different terms of
address based upon birth order (something of great significance to
the Vilani) or some other criteria. We use gendered terms of
address, their existence is not universal.
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 10:45 +0000 (GMT)
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
Subject: Re: Looking for European Cons....
In-Reply-To: <20010323200509.A516836F9@sitemail.everyone.net>
Greetings dear hearts.
If AuriTech Shipyards want to be represented at UK, etc., conventions, try
looking at http://rpga.ukonline.co.uk/events.htm for a reguarly update
list. The Gen Con UK site is at http://genconuk.com/
I'll be there, and perhaps we can meet up.
Hugs and kisses,
Mexal.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 00:59:57 -0000
From: "Ben Aaronovitch" <bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Traveller Screenplay
Loren
I'd be willing to 'front' it for you.
Ben
'Let's be honest here - you paid for the women.'
Bill Murrey - Scrooged
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 10:04 PM
Subject: Re: Traveller Screenplay
> In a message dated 23-Mar-01 1:55:05 AM Central Standard Time,
> owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:
>
> > Perhaps someone should tell Hollywood.
> >
> > Or at least Loren, for when he writes his definitive Trav screenplay. ;-)
>
> Well, I haven't started it, but I know how I'd approach it.
>
>
> Aside: I am informed, by people who are supposed to know, that no agent will
> consider a screenplay by anyone over 40 unless you already have a track
> record (preferably other screen credits).
>
> This could really depress me if I allowed it to.
>
> LKW
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 14:06:17
From: "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: 3d deck plans
Doing 3D Traveller models is more fun than doing my taxes. Here are some
screen captures of a very (very) quick and dirty model created using the
Stanley Home Design Software. It is not a ship, but you should get the idea.
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/J_Lambert/brubeks.htm
The model can be exported as a DXF file to other programs for better
materials, lighting, etc.
John
>From: "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com>
>>>I'll have to give this a try. I've got a program that lets you draw a
>>>"blueprint" and then it generates the walls and doors with
>>>characteristics
>>>you specify.
>
>>Hmmm...what's it called? Sounds pretty nifty.
>
>The program is "Stanley Home Design Software" and is intended for building
>or remodeling projects to help you visualize what you are doing. I paid
>$39.99 at Best Buy a little over a year ago when we were planning our
>cabin.
>You draw a blueprint type layout and the program adds the third dimension.
>In addition to roofs, walls, doors, etc., there are cabinets, furniture,
>etc
>that can be resized. You can also import DXF objects. The view of the scene
>can be changed and saved as an image file. The resulting designs can also
>be
>exported as a DXF file and imported into programs that do a better job of
>rendering. Wall hatches might be a problem in the program itself, but could
>be added in another program.
>
>If I get my taxes done, I'll try to do a quick layout this weekend.
>
>John
>
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 14:51:31
From: "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com>
Subject: Trav 3D Group
I would be very interested in the Trav 3D Group. I have several 3D projects
started, but never get around to finishing them. A group to share ideas,
exchange components, etc. would provide more modivation to get things done.
John
>From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net>
>...
> > As for a library of parts, that idea sounds like a winner. Hell, unless
> > somebody else wants the job, I'd be happy to collect 'em and put up a
>web
> > page for them.
> >
> > Thanks to all
> >
> > Donavan L.
>
>This is what the Trav 3D group was formed for. As I got busy with SJG
>stuff
>again, it never took off much beyond the mailing list. A page mockup is
>here:
>http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/trav3d/trav3d1.htm
>
>Let me know if you're interested. Maybe some new blood is what we need to
>get the program kickstarted :)
>
>Looking forward to more!
>Jesse
>
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 10:32:18 -0500
From: "Swordy" <swordworlder@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Trav 3D Group
All this talk about the old Trav3D idea made me wonder....
yep! it's still there: http://www.downport.com/trav3d/
Kind of empty, though :(
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 07:36:37 -0800
From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Ghost Stories and the TML
At 02:22 PM 03/24/01 +1200, you wrote:
>I'm someone who doesn't believe in gods, ghosts, spirits, or any other stuff
>like that (though I find them great for roleplaying games and stories) and
>can honestly say that unless I was _wanting_ to have such an experience, I
>have never had one.
In my family, I know that my father, sister and I have all had paranormal
encounters. I'm not sure about Craig.
I consider myself a skeptic in the very best sense of the word, but I've
down enough ghost hunting to be convicned there is something causing these
effects we keep finding.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
Death is an experience best avoided, as it makes
reliable internet access difficult to obtain.
- Xaonon, in alt.atheism
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 08:43:47 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: 3d deck plans
ACE Desktop? You're using an Acer? <runs away screaming>
Okay, I'm back. Sorry, flashback from my last job working at Acer ;)
Anyways, very cool, and it looks like this would be a very quick and dirty
way to bring 3D plans into a game. I like it!!!
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of John Lambert
> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 6:06 AM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: RE: 3d deck plans
>
>
> Doing 3D Traveller models is more fun than doing my taxes. Here are some
> screen captures of a very (very) quick and dirty model created using the
> Stanley Home Design Software. It is not a ship, but you should
> get the idea.
> http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/J_Lambert/brubeks.htm
> The model can be exported as a DXF file to other programs for better
> materials, lighting, etc.
>
> John
>
> >From: "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com>
> >>>I'll have to give this a try. I've got a program that lets you draw a
> >>>"blueprint" and then it generates the walls and doors with
> >>>characteristics
> >>>you specify.
> >
> >>Hmmm...what's it called? Sounds pretty nifty.
> >
> >The program is "Stanley Home Design Software" and is intended
> for building
> >or remodeling projects to help you visualize what you are doing. I paid
> >$39.99 at Best Buy a little over a year ago when we were planning our
> >cabin.
> >You draw a blueprint type layout and the program adds the third
> dimension.
> >In addition to roofs, walls, doors, etc., there are cabinets, furniture,
> >etc
> >that can be resized. You can also import DXF objects. The view
> of the scene
> >can be changed and saved as an image file. The resulting designs
> can also
> >be
> >exported as a DXF file and imported into programs that do a better job of
> >rendering. Wall hatches might be a problem in the program
> itself, but could
> >be added in another program.
> >
> >If I get my taxes done, I'll try to do a quick layout this weekend.
> >
> >John
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 08:48:03 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net>
Subject: Joining the Trav 3D Group
Like I said, we never really got it kicking beyond VERY occaisional posts to
the mailing list. For info on how to join the list (since I seem to have
deleted my list join mail >>:( ) send an information request to:
<paste>
Any questions or concerns can be sent to "listmaster@atlantic-online.ns.ca".
</paste>
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Swordy
> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 7:32 AM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: RE: Trav 3D Group
>
>
> All this talk about the old Trav3D idea made me wonder....
>
> yep! it's still there: http://www.downport.com/trav3d/
>
> Kind of empty, though :(
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 10:35:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Ghost Stories and the TML
Sometimes it doesn't matter how educated the group
is, superstition is a part of human nature. Here's
something I ran into on the Nimitz as an example.
While being stationed on the USS Nimitz as part of
the Reactor Department between late 1991 and 1994, I
kept on hearing about a kind of poltergeist that lived
in the engineering spaces named "Zog". Whenever there
was an unexplained occurrance (like lube oil
capacities being different without any change to the
system or a random machinery failure), the common
response was that, "Zog did it". Occassionally when
someone was working on a particularly obstinant piece
of equipment, you'd hear them say under their breath
things like, "C'mon Zog, give me a break on this and
let me fix it". It got a little creepy when we out on
long deployments.
After a few months of this, I tried to track down the
source of "Zog". Come to find out that on the previous
WestPac deployment (the one that brought the USS
Nimitz to the Persian Gulf during Desert Storm), the
Number 3 Turbine Generator caught on fire and was
severely damaged. When the fire was out and the
wreckage was sifted through, a burnt Navy ID card was
found with the only recognizable writing on it being
the letters z-o-g. A few months earlier, an
Electrician's Mate by the name of Herzog had left the
ship for civilian life. Nobody can really say why his
ID card was there.
Now the Nukes I worked with, while a mischeivious
bunch, weren't the types who would make up a
"shipboard legend" like this. Superstition lives even
with a group of educated and intelligent people.
Besides, we liked it because it gave our Engineering
Space "character".
- --- Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
<a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz> wrote:
> Facinating discussion. Interesting thought occured
> to me
>
> TML subscribers are probably not prone to wild
> flights of superstition, most
> of us would consider themselves rational thinkers,
> many of us have formal
> training in scientific method. But then again look
> at the stories being told
> here. How many of us can honestly admit to never
> having had an
> experience that triggered that primal part of our
> psyche that warns us of
> the monsters lurking just beyond the firelight.
> Interesting how strong that
> part of us is.
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 18:46:14
From: "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: 3d deck plans
>From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net>
>
>ACE Desktop? You're using an Acer? <runs away screaming>
>
It is an old 75-MHz Acer that has been modified several times with new
(faster)CPUs, hard drives, a video card. It still gets the job done. (See
threads on things living in old machines; mine is host to a very friendly
one.)
>
>Okay, I'm back. Sorry, flashback from my last job working at Acer ;)
>Anyways, very cool, and it looks like this would be a very quick and dirty
>way to bring 3D plans into a game. I like it!!!
>
>Jesse
>
One thing I did not show in the example is that the walls can attach to one
another at any angle, not just 90 degrees. Curved walls may be a challenge.
I'll get an example of a 3D ship deck plan up in the near future and take it
through one of my real rendering packages. The Stanley package is quick and
somewhat dirty; it does have additional surface materials and other options
I did not use. For the price ($40) it is a nice package.
John
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 10:51:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Forms of address: a question
If you are a visiting dignitary from a world in the
Imperium that doesn't have hereditary nobility, how
are you addressed at government functions? Are you
given an honorary noble title that would reflect your
status amoung the other nobles? How would this work?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 10:54:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: A Ghost by any other name
- --- Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net> wrote:
> Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>
>
> > > > --- Jesse Degraff <jedegraf@cisco.com> wrote:
> > > > > what happens when the PBR (Pseudo-Bio Robot)
> > > > > starts acting more and more human?
> > > > > Imperfect poise, shifting weight from foot
>
> > > > I'd thought about that and wanted to avoid it
> > > > because it would detract from the creepiness
> of the NPC.
>
> > > How? That makes it more creepy!!!
> > > Kiri ^_^
>
> > Yes, it does make it more creepy, but in a style
> > reminiscant of 'Tales From The Crypt'. I wanted
> the
> > creepiness to come from the noble's interaction
> with
> > what is, obviously to the players, a doll. If the
> PBR
> > begins to show more 'natural' behaviors then the
> > players will start doubting themselves and their
> > perception of reality (game-wise) and not doubt
> the
> > noble's perception of reality.
>
> Another creepy option would be if the supposed
> pseudo
> biological robot is really just a lobotomized and
> brainwashed
> human who has had some surgical alterations. Maybe
> that new
> 'breakthrough' is pseudobiological robotics is just
> a cover
> for slave trading :)
Yes, I like that.
Or maybe the PBR could be a clone that was RAISED to
be his wife. Too cool. I could do a lot with that.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3820
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3821
Date: | 3/25/01 6:13:08 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Sunday, March 25 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3821
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3820
Re: A Ghost by any other name
Traveller Find
Re: Traveller Screenplay
RE: Ghost Stories and the TML
RE: Central Supply Catalog Listing?
Re: A Ghost by any other name
GT: WANTED - Starport Construction Equipment
Fnord (was WANTED - Starport Construction Equipment)
RE: Forms of address: a question
Re: Forms of address: a question
Re: Highport size & cradles
Re: Calculating satellite orbits
Intro, etc.
Re: Decompressing Ships
Re: Calculating satellite orbits
TRaveller and Star Trek: Please dont Flame me too qiuckly
N.E. for Rachel was RE: Intro, etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 17:54:48 -0600
From: "Donavan L." <dlambertus@dtgnet.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3820
>This is what the Trav 3D group was formed for. As I got busy with SJG
stuff
>again, it never took off much beyond the mailing list. A page mockup is
>here:
>http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/trav3d/trav3d1.htm
>
>Let me know if you're interested. Maybe some new blood is what we need to
>get the program kickstarted :)
Yes, I'm very interested! Where do I sign up (given that most of the last 2
days has been spent working on this project, going through a major layout
revision)? Seriously, what do we need to kickstart Trav3d? Web page
development, management, ?. Let me know what we need, and I'll take a swing
at it.
Donavan L.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 16:18:21 -0800
From: "Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>
Subject: Re: A Ghost by any other name
Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com> writes:
> > Another creepy option would be if the supposed pseudo biological robot
> > is really just a lobotomized and brainwashed human who has had some
> > surgical alterations. Maybe that new 'breakthrough' is pseudobiological
> > robotics is just a cover for slave trading :)
>
>Yes, I like that.
>Or maybe the PBR could be a clone that was RAISED to
>be his wife. Too cool. I could do a lot with that.
I guess my "Viet Nam" era age is showing. When I read "PBR", I immediately
think of the riverine patrol boats (PBR=Patrol Boat, River) that operated
in the
delta during the late 60s and early 70s.
Sigh.
- Mark C.
mark f. cook * shoestring graphics & printing * markc@ssgfx.com
7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330 * http://www.ssgfx.com
Phone: 541-745-5709 Fax: 541-745-5818
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 20:45:09 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
Subject: Traveller Find
Apologies for the commercial announcement, but I think I'll be forgiven for
this one.
I got a very interesting box from Ken Miller, of Sandusky OH. In the box
were two pieces of paper, with the following text:
#1:
SOVEREIGN GIFTS
Sovereign Gifts announces the discovery of a TRAVELLER treasure trove.
Locked away in a warehouse for over a decade, this find includes some of
the best adventures and accessories ever printed for the Traveller
Role-Playing Game.
Published by the FASA corporation in the early 80's, this treasure trove is
now available for the RPG collectors, the science fiction roleplaying
gamers, the gaming retail stores, and wholesalers at fantastic prices.
Sovereign Gifts
419-624-8594
635 Clinton St,
Sandusky, OH 44870
sovereign@sanduskyohio.com
The second piece of paper contains a price list. I'll go over that, later.
What was _really_ interesting was the stuff accompanying the two pieces of
paper. I am sitting here looking at:
Two black boxes, 11x17, with white drawings on them - the originals
were probably pencil or charcoal. They're marked "Adventure Class
Ships, Vol. I" and "...II" respectively. Inside each I found
several sheets of paper, 17x22, with deckplans gridded out at
1"=3m, each square being 1.5m on a side. Also included in each
box are two booklets in the convenient size made so familiar by
GDW, filled with High Guard profiles of each of the ships for
which deckplans were included. And, a sheet of unpunched
cardboard tokens displaying figures representing various
personalities that could be used in adventures using these
deckplans.
Thirteen books, also in the classic GDW size, with the most intriguing
titles - "The Harrensa Project/The Stazhlekh Report", "Action
Aboard the King Richard", "Rescue on Galatea", "Ordeal by Eshaar",
"Uragyad'n of the Seven Pillars", "The Legend of the Sky Raiders",
"The Trail of the Sky Raiders", "Fate of the Sky Raiders", "Far
Traveller" (Nos. 1 and 2), "High Passage" (Nos. 3, 4, and 5).
I don't know the definitions of the standard terms for condition, but none
of the booklets appeared damaged in any way, and the only damage to the
deckplans was that the boxes appeared to have been squashed. But Ken told
me that he chose to open those for inspection specifically for that reason,
and that the rest appear to be intact and sealed.
Getting back to the pieces of paper, the second one says
Sovereign Gifts
FASA Traveller
Direct Mail Price List
(add $4 Priority Mail per order)
(checks, money orders, PayPal please)
Adventures....................$6.00 each
The Harrensa Project/The Stazhlekh Report double
Action Aboard the King Richard
Rescue on Galatea
Ordeal by Eshaar
Uragyad'n of the Seven Pillars
The Legend of the Sky Raiders
The Trail of the Sky Raiders
Fate of the Sky Raiders
Far Traveller Magazines.......$3.95 each
Issue No. 1 Issue No. 2
High Passage Magazines........$4.50 each
Issue No. 3 Issue No. 4
Issue No. 5
Starship 15mm DeckPlans.......$20.00 each
Adventure Class Vol. I Vol. II
Set Specials
Sky Raider trilogy............$15.00
Far Traveller issues 1 & 2....$ 5.00
High Passage issues 3, 4, & 5.$10.00
One of each adventure (all 8).$35.00
Like I said, I think you'll forgive me for the blatantly commercial post...
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
(ILink: news without the abuse. Ask via email.)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 22:17:57 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller Screenplay
In a message dated 3/23/01 10:06:51 PM !!!First Boot!!!, GDWGAMES@aol.com
writes:
<< Aside: I am informed, by people who are supposed to know, that no agent
will
consider a screenplay by anyone over 40 unless you already have a track
record (preferably other screen credits).
This could really depress me if I allowed it to. >>
get some kid to co-write with you...:-)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 20:13:46 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: RE: Ghost Stories and the TML
>At 02:22 PM 03/24/01 +1200, you wrote:
> >I'm someone who doesn't believe in gods, ghosts, spirits, or any other stuff
> >like that (though I find them great for roleplaying games and stories) and
> >can honestly say that unless I was _wanting_ to have such an experience, I
> >have never had one.
>
>In my family, I know that my father, sister and I have all had paranormal
>encounters. I'm not sure about Craig.
>
>I consider myself a skeptic in the very best sense of the word, but I've
>down enough ghost hunting to be convicned there is something causing these
>effects we keep finding.
As Doug probably knows, I don't believe in ghosts (thought that
doesn't prevent them from being a good plot element in the right
campaign :-). I do believe there is something in the stories that we
keep hearing, but I think it is psychological and cognative.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net. My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 20:20:15 -0800
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com>
Subject: RE: Central Supply Catalog Listing?
Merlyns is still going strong in Spokalu.. :)
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Evyn MacDude
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 10:18 PM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: Re: Central Supply Catalog Listing?
Justin Engler wrote:
> (I've been lurking for a while, so I don't know if I
> count as a newbie and therefore are required to do an
> essay or not :)
>
> It would figure that as soon as I get a Traveller game
> going in my new locality (Moscow, ID), my copy of CSC
> would go missing. Seeing as how I've read it enough
> times to remember most of the descriptions, does
> anyone have or know of a listing of the stuff in the
> CSC? (Or willing to type one up as a spreadsheet or
> something?) I tried my local game store (yes, we do
> have a game store in Moscow, ID)
Moscow has a game store?!? Damn, life moves on.......
When last I was in that neck of the woods Merlins in
Spokane was the one place.
- --
"Fortes fortuna juvat"
Evyn
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition."
-- William Shakespeare, King Henry the Fifth, IV:iii:60-63
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 00:39:02 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@home.com>
Subject: Re: A Ghost by any other name
"Mark F. Cook" wrote:
> I guess my "Viet Nam" era age is showing. When I read "PBR", I immediately
> think of the riverine patrol boats (PBR=Patrol Boat, River) that operated
> in the
> delta during the late 60s and early 70s.
2s, 3s, and on the rare instance a 4.... Or I had the same thought.
- --
"Fortes fortuna juvat"
Evyn
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition."
-- William Shakespeare, King Henry the Fifth, IV:iii:60-63
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 04:40:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Dalton Spence <dalton.spence@hwcn.org>
Subject: GT: WANTED - Starport Construction Equipment
On GT: Starports p.8 we are told "The Imperium usually creates a
Class I starport by landing two modular cutters. One carries earth-
moving and surfacing equipment, and a work crew." This sounds like
an excellent gaming oportunity, but to use it properly we need to
know *exactly* what kind of "earth-moving and surfacing equipment"
would be on board that cutter module and how much earth it could
move (in dtons) or surface (in sf) per hour. Has anyone designed
some GTL 10+ CG construction sleds that would fit this bill?
- --
@==================================================@
| Dalton S. Spence, B.Sc. <dalton.spence@hwcn.org> |
| Home Page: http://www.hwcn.org/~ag775/home.html |
| Family Motto: Virtute Acquiritur Honos |
| "Trade is the lifeblood of the Imperium." |
| Cleon I, First Emperor of the Third Imperium |
| Charlie Brown fondles the avenging scraper and |
| the putrid sex toy. FNORD! |
@==================================================@
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 08:35:26 -0500
From: "Swordy" <swordworlder@earthlink.net>
Subject: Fnord (was WANTED - Starport Construction Equipment)
I never realized playing Mad Libs as a kid that I was sending coded messages
for the illu... ~ I wonder if I've been an agent all of my life...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Dalton Spence
> | Charlie Brown fondles the avenging scraper and |
> | the putrid sex toy. FNORD! |
> @==================================================@
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 07:59:28 -0800
From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Forms of address: a question
At 10:51 AM 03/24/01 -0800, you wrote:
>
> If you are a visiting dignitary from a world in the
>Imperium that doesn't have hereditary nobility, how
>are you addressed at government functions? Are you
>given an honorary noble title that would reflect your
>status amoung the other nobles? How would this work?
You are adressed by your correct title, and the consular staff sends out a
memo letting everyone know what your "level" is.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 16:59:15 GMT
From: TML@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)
Subject: Re: Forms of address: a question
Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com> writes:
> If you are a visiting dignitary from a world in the
>Imperium that doesn't have hereditary nobility, how
>are you addressed at government functions? Are you
>given an honorary noble title that would reflect your
>status amoung the other nobles? How would this work?
You've just put your finger on the exact reason why Imperial UPP codes
have an alphanumeric "social status" code. It lets people see at a
glance that your title of "Planetary Despot and Living God" ranks you
as equivalent to, say, an Imperial Baron....
As for forms of address, I'd think that protocol experts would take
great pride in finding out the correct form of address that the
dignitary would be known by, and briefing the Imperial nobles on this.
The only people to use the honorary "Imperial equivalent" titles would
be ignorant bureaucrats, passport officials, and people with a
political agenda of their own.
Stephen
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 18:12:24 +0100
From: "John G. Wood" <elvwood@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: Highport size & cradles
Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se> wrote,
> John G. Wood wrote:
> > What do you think is a sensible lower limit? 15,000 dtons? 20,000?
>
> I don't know off the top of my head, but have you checked GT: First
> In? There are guidlines for port size there if I am not mistaken.
> > Thanks again - next post should be the GT Starships design (unless
> > I run into other problems).
>
> Looking forward to it...
Of course, I should have said GT Star*ports*...
John
http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 18:12:33 +0100
From: "John G. Wood" <elvwood@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: Calculating satellite orbits
John Lambert <hovtej@hotmail.com> wrote:
[lots of stuff about Molniya-style eccentric orbits]
Thanks - as you say, it all sounds pretty hairy. I'll probably just
stick to a near-circular orbit for simplicity.
> There is one remaining question. Would a tidally locked planet have
> an equatorial bulge since it rotates so slowly? You could postulate
> that the bulge formed while the planet was forming prior to becoming
> tidally locked.
In an earlier discussion it was suggested that any pear-shape bulging
would end up pointing towards or away from the star. I've almost gone
with this; it is slightly off to make for a more interesting map, but
is moving slowly back towards the equilibrium position. In-game, the
probable cause for the discrepancy is the last great planetoid impact.
How does this movement affect any equatorial bulge? Does the bulge
*stay* equatorial? I'm happy to just avoid questions like this,
interesting though they are.
John
http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 03:49:21 +0800
From: Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>
Subject: Intro, etc.
<de-lurk>
Hi all!
My name is Rachel Kronick. I've been lurking on this list for a couple
weeks, and I guess I just decided it was finally time to say "hi."
Where to start? Well, some of you might recognize me from the 2300AD
list. I've been into Traveller and some of its spin-offs since The
Traveller Book or before. I prefer 'hard' SF or cyberpunk stuff, and as
many of you do, I have my own future universe. It's called /Spheres/,
and you can check it out at
<http://www.geocities.com/jiawen6/spheres.html>. Traveller's
universe(s) are quite fun, too, though. Of course, I have done VERY
little actual gaming within the past few years, but I'm still interested
in it. It's not that I don't want to, it's just that I can't find
anyone to do it with.
Besides SF & RPG's, I'm into lots of things: Mandarin Chinese, ESL, CGI
and lots of other acronyms. I've been particularly interested in the
recent threads about 3D Traveller art, as I just got my copy of Inspire
and have been doing a lot of playing with it. You can see my latest
experiment at <http://www.geocities.com/jiawen6/bridgestars3.html>.
Check my website if you're interested in knowing my other interests.
Now, to make this all slightly more worth your while to have read, I'd
also like to note that I'm considering reviving my Spheres PBEM. If
you're interested, please check the game's page at
<http://www.geocities.com/jiawen6/spherespbem.html>. Also, if anyone
here is starting a Traveller PBEM, or has a vacancy in an extant one,
please let me know. I'd really like to do some gaming again at some
point! :)
Thanks for reading all this stuff.
- -- Rachel Kronick
<http://www.geocities.com/jiawen6/index.html>, if you hadn't guessed.
:)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 14:51:44 -0500
From: "Walt Smith" <firelock_ny@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Decompressing Ships
Rob Davenport <rgd@ohio.voyager.net> wrote:
>On 23 Mar 2001, at 11:01, Niko Mikkanen wrote:
> > "Trevor, Peter" wrote:
> >
> > > Press Release
> > > -------------
> > > Bozo Systems LIC introduces new CIMS (Combat Information
> > > Management System) for both starships and spacecraft. Since the
> >
> > Sorry, old news. I came up with this years ago.
>
>Me too. And a buddy of mine claimed to have thought of it when I told
>him *my* idea.
>
>Don't you just hate that? :)
First place I ever recall seeing it was in White Dwarf Magazine,
early/mid 1980's, in the _Travellers_ comic strip. One of the
characters (Flynn?) had the development of such a device for the
Imperial Navy on his resume. :-)
Walt Smith
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 16:04:54 -0600
From: JR Holmes <jrholmes@wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Calculating satellite orbits
On Sun, 25 Mar 2001 18:12:33 +0100, "John G. Wood"
<elvwood@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>John Lambert <hovtej@hotmail.com> wrote:
>[lots of stuff about Molniya-style eccentric orbits]
>
>Thanks - as you say, it all sounds pretty hairy. I'll probably just
>stick to a near-circular orbit for simplicity.
Depending upon the bend of your players, it may be enough to simply
say that the highport is in a Molniya orbit which spends 75% of its
time over the downport (and pick your orbital period as some
convenient value). They are probably not going to look at the math
necessary for checking the validity of the orbit.
This has the additional benefit of having the highport "unavailable"
for set times during the adventure. This could prove to be an
interesting complication for the players.
- --
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 17:09:21 EST
From: Spm073@aol.com
Subject: TRaveller and Star Trek: Please dont Flame me too qiuckly
- --part1_e.ab42b3f.27efc691_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I have a new player who is an avid ST fan and ive been trying to work him
into the Traveller universe. I snuck a little in by having a ship we have
been playing in a LUG Trek RPG take a horribly wrong turn. Here is my
question:
Has anyone had any success wooing ST fans to Traveller and is so, how?
Also, Beyond the physics differences, what problems would i have in
converting some of my GURPs traveller stuff to LUG trek (if anyone still
remembers it.)?
PAtrick
- --part1_e.ab42b3f.27efc691_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I have a new player who is an avid ST fan and ive been trying to work him
into the Traveller universe. &nbsp;I snuck a little in by having a ship we have
been playing in a LUG Trek RPG take a horribly wrong turn. &nbsp;Here is my
question:
Has anyone had any success wooing ST fans to Traveller and is so, how?
Also, &nbsp;Beyond the physics differences, what problems would i have in
converting some of my GURPs traveller stuff to LUG trek (if anyone still
remembers it.)?
PAtrick
- --part1_e.ab42b3f.27efc691_boundary--
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 17:52:57 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net>
Subject: N.E. for Rachel was RE: Intro, etc.
Hiya' Rachel!
Got Inspire, eh? You lucky girl you! Most of the stuff I do with Lightwave
for SJG's G:T can be done with Inspire, so I'm thinking you get a different
type of Newbie Essay <evil grin>:
One canon ship of your choice, weathered (new is too easy ;), in space with
a nebula background and full starfield. Preferably over a planetary
surface. You have two weeks :)
For a little help, check out:
http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/sulieman_tutorial.htm
http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/mini_tex_tut.htm
and
http://members.home.com/lightwavetutorials/ which not only covers LW
tutorials but Inspire tutorials as well.
This assigning newbie essays bit is fun ;)
BTW, you're off to a good start from the example I saw!
All in good fun,
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Rachel Kronick
> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2001 11:49 AM
> To: Traveller Mailing List
> Subject: Intro, etc.
>
>
> <de-lurk>
>
> Hi all!
>
> My name is Rachel Kronick. I've been lurking on this list for a couple
> weeks, and I guess I just decided it was finally time to say "hi."
>
> Where to start? Well, some of you might recognize me from the 2300AD
> list. I've been into Traveller and some of its spin-offs since The
> Traveller Book or before. I prefer 'hard' SF or cyberpunk stuff, and as
> many of you do, I have my own future universe. It's called /Spheres/,
> and you can check it out at
> <http://www.geocities.com/jiawen6/spheres.html>. Traveller's
> universe(s) are quite fun, too, though. Of course, I have done VERY
> little actual gaming within the past few years, but I'm still interested
> in it. It's not that I don't want to, it's just that I can't find
> anyone to do it with.
>
> Besides SF & RPG's, I'm into lots of things: Mandarin Chinese, ESL, CGI
> and lots of other acronyms. I've been particularly interested in the
> recent threads about 3D Traveller art, as I just got my copy of Inspire
> and have been doing a lot of playing with it. You can see my latest
> experiment at <http://www.geocities.com/jiawen6/bridgestars3.html>.
> Check my website if you're interested in knowing my other interests.
>
> Now, to make this all slightly more worth your while to have read, I'd
> also like to note that I'm considering reviving my Spheres PBEM. If
> you're interested, please check the game's page at
> <http://www.geocities.com/jiawen6/spherespbem.html>. Also, if anyone
> here is starting a Traveller PBEM, or has a vacancy in an extant one,
> please let me know. I'd really like to do some gaming again at some
> point! :)
>
> Thanks for reading all this stuff.
>
> -- Rachel Kronick
> <http://www.geocities.com/jiawen6/index.html>, if you hadn't guessed.
> :)
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3821
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3822
Date: | 3/26/01 12:42:48 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Monday, March 26 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3822
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
WANTED: Orbital Mechanic
Re: GT: WANTED - Starport Construction Equipment
RE: GT: WANTED - Starport Construction Equipment
[QUERY] GT:MC - New Equipment Questions
Re: Allen Steele/Brian Daley
Re: GT: WANTED - Starport Construction Equipment
Reminder: Conjuration 6 Games Convention
Re: [QUERY] GT:MC - New Equipment Questions
Re: Ghost stories
Re: Forms of address: a rebuttal
Another OT Question
Re: Traveller Screenplay
Re: Traveller Screenplay
Re: WANTED: Orbital Mechanic
Re: (Fwd) Re: Decompressing Ships
RE: Traveller Screenplay
Re: Looking for European Cons....
Re: Traveller Find
Re: Intro, etc.
Re: Traveller Find
RE: Traveller Find
RE: Looking for European Cons....
Re: Forms of address: a rebuttal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 21:54:01 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: WANTED: Orbital Mechanic
I'm in need of a way of getting a planet from interstellar space slowed down
and inserted into an orbit around a star. The orbit can be elliptical if
necessary, but not radically so -- say at worst the equivalent of swinging
from Venus-like distances at perihelion and Mars-like at aphelion.
I know enough orbital mechanics to understand that a planet randomly
wandering in near a star is just going to randomly wander back out unless
something unusual happens, but I *don't* know enough to figure out what
unusual things might qualify.
Some thoughts I had, just to prime the pump if nothing else:
1. It hits a planetoid somewhere on the trip in, and gets its speed and path
altered enough to get captured by the star. I'm not sure this would be
enough, and I'm pretty sure that if it were enough, it would melt the
surface quite nicely. I'd like the interstellar planet to be reasonably
pristine and frozen over after capture.
2. Could a close encounter with, say, a large gas giant also in the system
drop the rogue into a stable orbit? I have a sneaking suspicion that this
would give an aphelion near the orbit of the giant, which is not amenable to
long-term stability. I need the rogue to stay in place for a few thousand
years at least.
3. The rogue could have been captured during the star's T-Tauri phase, as
I'm guessing a cloud of dust and gas could inflict enough friction on the
interloper to do the trick. But again, I'm worried about melting it, plus
I'd like it if the star were a proper main sequence one.
Is there anyone better than I at Newtonian physics who wants to give a
thumbs up or down to any of these, or suggest another possibility?
"No Ancient-meddling need apply (unless I get really, really stuck)."
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 22:15:16 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: GT: WANTED - Starport Construction Equipment
In a message dated 3/25/01 9:41:49 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
dalton.spence@hwcn.org writes:
<< On GT: Starports p.8 we are told "The Imperium usually creates a
Class I starport by landing two modular cutters. One carries earth-
moving and surfacing equipment, and a work crew." This sounds like
an excellent gaming oportunity, but to use it properly we need to
know *exactly* what kind of "earth-moving and surfacing equipment"
would be on board that cutter module and how much earth it could
move (in dtons) or surface (in sf) per hour. Has anyone designed
some GTL 10+ CG construction sleds that would fit this bill? >>
How about a Grav vehicle that combines the function of bulldozer, road
grader, excavator, payloader and backhoe? (the nice thing about living in
'Vegas is you get to see a LOT of construction equipment...)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 13:24:38 +1000
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au>
Subject: RE: GT: WANTED - Starport Construction Equipment
Just an interested question.... whats a Class I starport?
(I don't have gurps)
- -----Original Message-----
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com [mailto:Sethkimmel@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 1:15 PM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: Re: GT: WANTED - Starport Construction Equipment
In a message dated 3/25/01 9:41:49 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
dalton.spence@hwcn.org writes:
<< On GT: Starports p.8 we are told "The Imperium usually creates a
Class I starport by landing two modular cutters. One carries earth-
moving and surfacing equipment, and a work crew." This sounds like
an excellent gaming oportunity, but to use it properly we need to
know *exactly* what kind of "earth-moving and surfacing equipment"
would be on board that cutter module and how much earth it could
move (in dtons) or surface (in sf) per hour. Has anyone designed
some GTL 10+ CG construction sleds that would fit this bill? >>
How about a Grav vehicle that combines the function of bulldozer, road
grader, excavator, payloader and backhoe? (the nice thing about living
in
'Vegas is you get to see a LOT of construction equipment...)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 22:36:41 -0500 (EST)
From: Dalton Spence <dalton.spence@hwcn.org>
Subject: [QUERY] GT:MC - New Equipment Questions
I have some questions about the New Equipments described on p.17-18
of the Modular Cutter book.
1.) What are the DR and HP stats of the equipment listed on p.18?
2.) Do Hard and Flexible Locks connect the entire end of the modules
or just the doors on them? What are their physical dimensions
(LxWxH) when deployed?
3.) Can two or more modules linked by ring couplings be inserted in
a vehicle's instrinsic coupling space as a single module? Could
the same thing be done with Hiver modules equipped with spacers?
Or with module struts? What would be the structural limitations?
How would this effect attachment/detachment operation times?
4.) Could Module Lifters (p.18) be used to reduce or eliminate the
*weight* (not mass) of an overloaded module so that a cutter
could take off?
- --
@==================================================@
| Dalton S. Spence, B.Sc. <dalton.spence@hwcn.org> |
| Home Page: http://www.hwcn.org/~ag775/home.html |
| Family Motto: Virtute Acquiritur Honos |
| "Trade is the lifeblood of the Imperium." |
| Cleon I, First Emperor of the Third Imperium |
| You must meet Uncle Duke at Hell and get the |
| nuclear floppy disk. FNORD! |
@==================================================@
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 22:37:10 -0500
From: Eric Freitas <efreitos@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Allen Steele/Brian Daley
On Saturday 24 February 2001 01:16, you wrote:
> Hmm, not yet. :-) Are most of his titles still in print?
> On the subject of authors, I've enjoyed the Hobart Floyt/Alacrity Fitzhugh
> books by Brian Daley as a source of 'cinematic' situations and background
> material for campaigns. Has anyone else read these?
>
> ALO
Yes! I was very intrigued with the characters and their situations. I used
them in various places years ago. I only ever found one of the novels
though. I'll have to see about finding some more.
- --
Eric Freitas
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 22:01:34 +0000
From: "Doug C." <dougcr@mb.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: GT: WANTED - Starport Construction Equipment
Paul,
In CT/MT these would be class "E" ports I believe
Doug C.
(LBB since... way back..)
Paul Harris wrote:
>
> Just an interested question.... whats a Class I starport?
> (I don't have gurps)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sethkimmel@aol.com [mailto:Sethkimmel@aol.com]
> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 1:15 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: GT: WANTED - Starport Construction Equipment
>
> In a message dated 3/25/01 9:41:49 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
> dalton.spence@hwcn.org writes:
>
> << On GT: Starports p.8 we are told "The Imperium usually creates a
> Class I starport by landing two modular cutters. One carries earth-
> moving and surfacing equipment, and a work crew." This sounds like
> an excellent gaming oportunity, but to use it properly we need to
> know *exactly* what kind of "earth-moving and surfacing equipment"
> would be on board that cutter module and how much earth it could
> move (in dtons) or surface (in sf) per hour. Has anyone designed
> some GTL 10+ CG construction sleds that would fit this bill? >>
>
> How about a Grav vehicle that combines the function of bulldozer, road
> grader, excavator, payloader and backhoe? (the nice thing about living
> in
> 'Vegas is you get to see a LOT of construction equipment...)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 23:06:46 -0500
From: dhorizon <dhorizon@total.net>
Subject: Reminder: Conjuration 6 Games Convention
- --------------1D961F68CF2231B137B5DC2B
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This is a quick reminder to everyone about the upcoming 6th Annual
Gamers/Games Convention being held at McGill University in Montreal;
entitled ConJuration 6.
It will be held March 30th and 31st, 2001. In the Shatner Ballroom of
the William Shatner Building of McGill University. Presented by the
McGill Gamers' Guild in conjunction with the Students Society of McGill
University.
Come and participate in all the events and meet the sponsors.
Role-playing Games/Card Games/LARPS/Multimedia and more.
For more information please contact:
email: mcgillgamers@hotmail.com
Tel: (514) 932-4910
web site: http://ssmu.mcgill.ca/gamers/
Place of Convention:
McGill University (Downtown Campus)
3480 McTavish, Montreal, Quebec, Canada.
Shatner Ballroom.
Cost:
$7 Canadian for Guild Members
$10 Canadian for Non-Members
All are welcome to attend. :)
- --------------1D961F68CF2231B137B5DC2B
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
&nbsp;
&nbsp;This is a quick reminder to everyone about the
upcoming
6th Annual Gamers/Games Convention being held at
McGill University in Montreal; entitled ConJuration 6.

&nbsp;It will be held March 30th and 31st, 2001. In the
Shatner Ballroom of the William Shatner Building of McGill University.
Presented by the McGill Gamers' Guild in conjunction with the Students
Society of McGill University.

&nbsp;Come and participate in all the events and meet
the sponsors. Role-playing Games/Card Games/LARPS/Multimedia and more.

For more information please contact:
&nbsp;email: mcgillgamers@hotmail.com
&nbsp;Tel: (514) 932-4910
&nbsp;web site: http://ssmu.mcgill.ca/gamers/

Place of Convention:
&nbsp;McGill University (Downtown Campus)
&nbsp;3480 McTavish, Montreal, Quebec, Canada.
&nbsp;Shatner Ballroom.

Cost:
&nbsp;$7 Canadian for Guild Members
&nbsp;$10 Canadian for Non-Members

All are welcome to attend. :)
- --------------1D961F68CF2231B137B5DC2B--
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 22:28:26 -0600
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [QUERY] GT:MC - New Equipment Questions
At 10:36 PM 3/25/2001 -0500, Dalton S. Spence wrote:
>4.) Could Module Lifters (p.18) be used to reduce or eliminate the
> *weight* (not mass) of an overloaded module so that a cutter
> could take off?
I picture these being attached to the ends of the modules (the sides would
have no attachment points being smooth for streamlining), so no they could
not be used.
Jimmy Simpson
nimrodd@mail.com
"The avalanche has already started.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
-Kosh Naranek (Babylon 5)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 15:04:22 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Ghost stories
Dear Folks -
DaveShayne wrote:
>Many years ago I lived a block away from a mortuary (Morton's Mortuary
>in Grand Junction, CO in case anybody is interested.)
[snip]
>I tend to keep rather odd
>hours and I would frequently pass this light in the dead of night going to
>and from wherever it was I was going to and from.
Don't tell me - you were on the graveyard shift, right??
;-)
(Sorry, I just couldn't pass that one up!)
- - Hyphen
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 15:14:22 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Forms of address: a rebuttal
Dear Folks -
Niko wrote:
>There's a rather good page about titles and forms of address at
>http://laura.chinet.com/html/titles01.html
OK, so when you all went to that page and read this line:
>My purpose in creating these pages was to provide an authoritative
reference work about the peerage on the Web (with an >emphasis on
Regency-era--and earlier--nobility).
..how many of you thought "But there ARE no nobles in the Regency!"??
;-)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 00:40:59 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Another OT Question
Would one of the TML folks with experience in running/maintaining a website
please get in touch with me off list -- I have a technical question that I
don't want to bore the rest of the list with.
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 00:49:24 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller Screenplay
Bloo)Saith:
> GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Aside: I am informed, by people who are supposed to know, that no agent
> will
> > consider a screenplay by anyone over 40 unless you already have a track
> > record (preferably other screen credits).
> >
> > This could really depress me if I allowed it to.
>
> Unless you know people in the biz, like good script readers
> who tell agents what scripts are good and bad. ;-)
I don't. Do you?
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 00:54:27 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller Screenplay
> << Aside: I am informed, by people who are supposed to know, that no agent
> will
> consider a screenplay by anyone over 40 unless you already have a track
> record (preferably other screen credits).
>
> This could really depress me if I allowed it to. >>
>
> get some kid to co-write with you...:-)
Or to do the pitch . . .
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 21:37:37 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: WANTED: Orbital Mechanic
In mail you write:
> I'm in need of a way of getting a planet from interstellar space slowed down
> and inserted into an orbit around a star. The orbit can be elliptical if
> necessary, but not radically so -- say at worst the equivalent of swinging
> from Venus-like distances at perihelion and Mars-like at aphelion.
>
> I know enough orbital mechanics to understand that a planet randomly
> wandering in near a star is just going to randomly wander back out unless
> something unusual happens, but I *don't* know enough to figure out what
> unusual things might qualify.
>
> Some thoughts I had, just to prime the pump if nothing else:
>
> 1. It hits a planetoid somewhere on the trip in, and gets its speed and path
> altered enough to get captured by the star. I'm not sure this would be
> enough, and I'm pretty sure that if it were enough, it would melt the
> surface quite nicely. I'd like the interstellar planet to be reasonably
> pristine and frozen over after capture.
>
> 2. Could a close encounter with, say, a large gas giant also in the system
> drop the rogue into a stable orbit? I have a sneaking suspicion that this
> would give an aphelion near the orbit of the giant, which is not amenable to
> long-term stability. I need the rogue to stay in place for a few thousand
> years at least.
How about an encounter with another planet in the system with the end
result being the *other* planet being ejected, while the wanderer
assumed a somewhat stable orbit in the system.
This *should* solve those messy problems with conservation of momentum
and angular momentum.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 09:42:51 +0300
From: Niko Mikkanen <niko.mikkanen@capslock.fi>
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: Decompressing Ships
Rob Davenport wrote:
> So what kind of multiple-sense input would the various races use?
> Scent-sors for Vargr and/or Aslan? "VR" sonar landscapes for dolphins?
> Hivers?
> --
> Rob
*snif* *snif*... Captain! I think **it just hit the fan!
:)
GNiko
- --
After all is said and done, a hell of a lot more is said than done.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 07:46:09 +0100
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Traveller Screenplay
Loren wrote:
> > > Aside: I am informed, by people who are supposed to know,
> > > that no agent will consider a screenplay by anyone over 40
> > > unless you already have a track record (preferably other
> > > screen credits).
> > >
> > > This could really depress me if I allowed it to.
> >
> > get some kid to co-write with you...:-)
>
> Or to do the pitch . . .
It occurs to me that Courtney Solomon and Sweetpea may recognise
your name and they have just done the D&D movie. Okay, so that
wasn't the best movie ever, but they may be your way in to the
Hollywood scene once you do have a script.
Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 10:01:06 +0300
From: Niko Mikkanen <niko.mikkanen@capslock.fi>
Subject: Re: Looking for European Cons....
AuricTech Shipyards wrote:
>
> Having settled in (temporarily) at Eagle Base, Bosnia, I have learned that I will be allowed to take up to two weeks leave over here. Since I really enjoyed meeting various TMLers during my BayCon trip last year, I therefore ask our list members on the European side of the Atlantic where and when are some cons I might attend? UK Gencon is high on my list, as I expect several TMLers to attend, but I'd be interested in other cons as well.
> AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
<ShamelessPlug>
Well, there's ROPECON, one of the largest roleplaying conventions in
Europe (with about 2000 participants). It's mostly in Finnish, but the
GoHs are from US and England, and it's fairly easy to find people who
speak English to play and chat with (since most gaming material is in
English, it gets to be a second language to virtually all gamers).
http://ropecon.roolipeli.net is not yet up for this year, but check out
the past Con pages to get the idea what it's all about (under
"historia", as in "history..." :) At least the 2000 Con has English
pages, too). 10.-12. of August seems to be this year's date.
</ShamelessPlug>
GNiko
- --
After all is said and done, a hell of a lot more is said than done.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 17:21:38 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Traveller Find
Dear Jeff -
Congrats on finding some very rare stuff!!
>...the only damage to the
>deckplans was that the boxes appeared to have been squashed.
A very common problem with those two sets - I've NEVER seen them
"unsquashed". The amount of paper inside the boxes is too thin to justify
the box - maybe that's why the later "Aslan Class Ships" just had the front
and back in cardboard, with no real "sides" (ie. more like an envelope than
a box).
These sets are great, even if just to remind ourselves that FASA
("Freedonian Aeronautics and Space Administration"!!) started life as a
Traveller licensee.
BTW, I believe that both the Freedonian SDB and the pirate in the first box
have 50-ton missile bays, but are sub-1000t craft. From memory, this is an
artefact of version 1 of _High Guard_.
>"Action Aboard the King Richard"
Ah yes, a classic Keith Bros production - but do you have the deckplans??
(I bought a rather battered copy of this supplement from "Alice's Bookshop"
in Belconnen, but no plans were to be had!).
Nearest I've ever got is an old JTAS (#12??) article about using miniatures
in Trav - there was a pic of (part) of the ship included in the article.
And as for the Zho 3000-ton (?) cruiser, nary a trace - although it was
nice to see it in the TNE book, as a tribute.
>Uragyad'n of the Seven Pillars
Do you have the errata from JTAS?
>The Legend of the Sky Raiders
>The Trail of the Sky Raiders
>Fate of the Sky Raiders
All with maps?
(I'm missing the map from either the second or third one - can't remember -
but a mate of mine has them all).
I can foresee a few people parting with quite a bit of money in the next
few weeks... ;-)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 17:42:21 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Intro, etc.
Dear Folks -
Rachel intro'd:
>Hi all!
>
>My name is Rachel Kronick. I've been lurking on this list for a couple
>weeks, and I guess I just decided it was finally time to say "hi."
[snip]
>I've been particularly interested in the
>recent threads about 3D Traveller art, as I just got my copy of Inspire
>and have been doing a lot of playing with it. You can see my latest
>experiment at <http://www.geocities.com/jiawen6/bridgestars3.html>.
Looks good! In fact there's a lot of good-looking ship pics on your site.
If you're still interested in _Blue Planet_, someone last year put a
cut-out version of the standard BP skimmer onto the 'net. It's a PDS
document which you can print onto cardboard and build - can someone else
post the address, I probably have it at home, not here!
(And BTW, despite the on-page disclaimer, you _don't_ look fat. ;-)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 17:50:25 +1000
From: Rob <rhoughto@one.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller Find
Bloody hell...Canberra is just too damn small...
> Ah yes, a classic Keith Bros production - but do you have the deckplans??
> (I bought a rather battered copy of this supplement from "Alice's Bookshop"
> in Belconnen, but no plans were to be had!).
>
ObTrav...ummm...you walk into a Brubecks in Regina and bump into someone you
havn't seen since Marine basic training and the ol'sarge from your first ship
deployment and ....
Rob...who also knows "Alice's Bookshop" ... a very FLSFGS...
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 20:21:35 +1200
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: Traveller Find
david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote :
> >...the only damage to the deckplans was that
> > the boxes appeared to have been squashed.
>
> A very common problem with those two sets - I've
> NEVER seen them "unsquashed". The amount of paper
> inside the boxes is too thin to justify the box -
> maybe that's why the later "Aslan Class Ships"
> just had the front and back in cardboard, with
> no real "sides" (ie. more like an envelope than
> a box).
My copy was in a box.
I suspect what you've got is somone's attempt to repair a badly squashed
box.
>"Action Aboard the King Richard"
> Ah yes, a classic Keith Bros production
Nope, it was written by Bill Paley and designed by Jordan Weismann
> - but do you have the deckplans??
> (I bought a rather battered
> copy of this supplement from "Alice's Bookshop"
> in Belconnen, but no plans were to be had!).
There is a single A3 sheet of plans that comes with the book, but the full
set of plans was sold as a seperate product. (I have both).
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 09:08:00 +0100
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Looking for European Cons....
There's Hebden Bridge in a couple of weeks.
Dean
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AuricTech Shipyards [mailto:aurictech@esweeet.com]
> Sent: 23 March 2001 20:05
> To: Traveller Mailing List (TML)
> Subject: Looking for European Cons....
>
>
> Having settled in (temporarily) at Eagle Base, Bosnia, I have
> learned that I will be allowed to take up to two weeks leave
> over here. Since I really enjoyed meeting various TMLers
> during my BayCon trip last year, I therefore ask our list
> members on the European side of the Atlantic where and when
> are some cons I might attend? UK Gencon is high on my list,
> as I expect several TMLers to attend, but I'd be interested
> in other cons as well.
>
> Note that the only Western European language (other than my
> American dialect form of English) I speak is a _very_ little
> bit of Spanish, so please take that into account in your advice.
>
> ==
> AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
> "Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
> Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
>
> http://www.geocities.com/colverber/travler.html
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Free eSweeet Mail - http://www.esweeet.com
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 11:40:17 +0300 (EET DST)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: Re: Forms of address: a rebuttal
On Mon, 26 Mar 2001 david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:
> Niko wrote:
> >There's a rather good page about titles and forms of address at
> >http://laura.chinet.com/html/titles01.html
> OK, so when you all went to that page and read this line:
> >My purpose in creating these pages was to provide an authoritative
> reference work about the peerage on the Web (with an >emphasis on
> Regency-era--and earlier--nobility).
> ..how many of you thought "But there ARE no nobles in the Regency!"??
But there are; it's just that their powers are reduced and some are no
more.
- --
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3822
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Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3822
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3823
Date: | 3/26/01 9:12:36 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Monday, March 26 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3823
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
RE: Trav 3D Group
Re: Calculating satellite orbits
RE: A Ghost by any other name
Another Customer of Alices!
RE: WANTED - Starport Construction Equipment
RE: WANTED - Starport Construction Equipment
RE: Forms of address: a rebuttal
RE: TRaveller and Star Trek: Please dont Flame me too qiuckly
RE: Forms of address: a rebuttal
RE: Traveller Find
RE: Deja Vu All Over Again
Re: Traveller Find
RE: Traveller Find
Re: GT: WANTED - Starport Construction Equipment
RE: Deja Vu All Over Again
Re: N.E. for Rachel was RE: Intro, etc.
RE: Ghost stories
Re: Ghost stories
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3819
RE: N.E. for Rachel was RE: Intro, etc.
Joining Trav3D...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 09:49:00 +0100
From: Alun Moon <alun.moon@unn.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: Trav 3D Group
> I would be very interested in the Trav 3D Group. I have
> several 3D projects
> started, but never get around to finishing them. A group to
> share ideas,
> exchange components, etc. would provide more modivation to
> get things done.
Can I recommend VRML as a 3D environment...
A number of 3D modelling tools support exports in VRML.
Or you can do it by hand in a text-editor.
Best of all you can put the models out via a website.
(you'll need a plugin to view them.)
You can produce some very sophisticated models.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Alun Moon Senior Lecturer in Computing
School of Computing and Mathematics
alun.moon@unn.ac.uk University of Northumbria at Newcastle
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 10:55:43 +0100
From: "John G. Wood" <elvwood@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: Calculating satellite orbits
JR Holmes <jrholmes@wi.rr.com> wrote:
> Depending upon the bend of your players, it may be enough to simply
> say that the highport is in a Molniya orbit which spends 75% of its
> time over the downport (and pick your orbital period as some
> convenient value). They are probably not going to look at the math
> necessary for checking the validity of the orbit.
Sadly, I have no Traveller players -- this is all for my landgrab entry
http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/Prilissa.html
(although some of the results will be used in an article I will be
submitting to JTAS).
Anyway, this is all just a bit of colour, as you say -- I can make use
of the fact that it's a long time away from the downport to help
justify the infrequent shuttle flights that are already part of the
write-up.
John
http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 12:05:52 +0100
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: A Ghost by any other name
Jeff Hopper wrote:
> Peter Newman wrote:
> > Another creepy option would be if the supposed pseudo
> > biological robot is really just a lobotomized and brainwashed
> > human who has had some surgical alterations. Maybe that new
> > 'breakthrough' is pseudobiological robotics is just a cover
> > for slave trading :)
>
> Yes, I like that.
> Or maybe the PBR could be a clone that was RAISED to
> be his wife. Too cool. I could do a lot with that.
Not a ghost story anymore, but related to clone issues: Have you
checked out the anime "Neon Genesis Evangelion"? (If you haven't
the rest of this is a spoiler!) The 14 year-old character of Rei
turns out to be a clone of the Commander's dead(?) wife. And
while she looks at him as a father figure, I've always wondered
if he looked at her as a younger version of his lost wife ... and
had this sneaking suspicion that something unsavoury might be
going on off-camera. (No direct proof, but when watched for the
2nd and 3rd time you pick up on subtle hints missed in the
initial viewing.) Meanwhile, the Evas (mecha) are themselves
partially human.
Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 20:13:42 -0800
From: "Craig Brain" <cjbrain@bigpond.com>
Subject: Another Customer of Alices!
My brother drops into Alice's yesterday, and I do business with her by
email - haven't been able to go there in person in nearly 9 years!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 12:11:43 +0100
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: WANTED - Starport Construction Equipment
Dalton Spence wrote:
> On GT: Starports p.8 we are told "The Imperium usually creates a
> Class I starport by landing two modular cutters. One carries earth-
> moving and surfacing equipment, and a work crew." This sounds like
> an excellent gaming oportunity, but to use it properly we need to
> know *exactly* what kind of "earth-moving and surfacing equipment"
> would be on board that cutter module and how much earth it could
> move (in dtons) or surface (in sf) per hour. Has anyone designed
> some GTL 10+ CG construction sleds that would fit this bill?
Not exactly what you were after, but a few nukes could move an
awful lot of earth. And I'm not sure but would a nuke exploded
over a desert melt the sand to form a giant glass dish on the
surface?
Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 12:30:15 +0100
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: WANTED - Starport Construction Equipment
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Trevor, Peter [mailto:Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com]
> Sent: 26 March 2001 12:12
> To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'
> Subject: RE: WANTED - Starport Construction Equipment
>
>
> Dalton Spence wrote:
> > On GT: Starports p.8 we are told "The Imperium usually creates a
> > Class I starport by landing two modular cutters. One carries earth-
> > moving and surfacing equipment, and a work crew." This sounds like
> > an excellent gaming oportunity, but to use it properly we need to
> > know *exactly* what kind of "earth-moving and surfacing equipment"
> > would be on board that cutter module and how much earth it could
> > move (in dtons) or surface (in sf) per hour. Has anyone designed
> > some GTL 10+ CG construction sleds that would fit this bill?
>
> Not exactly what you were after, but a few nukes could move an
> awful lot of earth. And I'm not sure but would a nuke exploded
> over a desert melt the sand to form a giant glass dish on the
> surface?
>
Depends on the altitude of the airburst. A ground-level explosion would be
more effective, but would throw up fallout. Hmm, could this be the cause of
'contaminated' atmospheres?
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 12:40:28 +0100
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Forms of address: a rebuttal
> >
> > I'm not following the English model. I only use Lord/Lady [Name] in
> > the case of members of a noble family who are not actual title
> > holders. How far from the title holder is a good question. First
> > cousins probably get the honorific, but what about great
> > grandchildren? I haven't decided.
> >
> > E.g., the Duke of Regina's truedaughter would be Lady Aledon. There
> > may be several people properly addressed as Lady Aledon.
I would suggest that only familial heads are addressed by honourific and
surname...others are addressed by honourific and first name eg Lady Enslow
is wife to the Earl of Enslow, Lady Carlotta is dauughter to the Earl and
Lady Enslow
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 12:43:29 +0100
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: TRaveller and Star Trek: Please dont Flame me too qiuckly
Patrick wrote:
> I have a new player who is an avid ST fan and ive been trying
> to work him into the Traveller universe. I snuck a little in
> by having a ship we have been playing in a LUG Trek RPG take a
> horribly wrong turn.
You could make him feel more 'at home' by drawing some parallels
... make sure he understands these parallels can only be taken so
far. The IISS is the nearest organisation like Starfleet, the
Aslan are like how the Klingons see themselves, the Vargr are
like how everyone else sees the Klingons, the Zhodani are a bit
like the Romulans, and the Sword Worlders are humans with
Cardassian attitudes. Jump drive is a bit like a Borg transwarp
conduit.
If I were creating a new campaign for such a player I'd keep all
the PCs still in service (not mustered out) in the IISS, assigned
either to an IISS Leviathan (from Adventure 4) or an IISS AHL
cruiser ... boldly exploring the Outrim Void.
Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 12:49:11 +0100
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Forms of address: a rebuttal
Hyphen wrote:
> Niko wrote:
> >There's a rather good page about titles and forms of address at
> >http://laura.chinet.com/html/titles01.html
>
> OK, so when you all went to that page and read this line:
>
> > My purpose in creating these pages was to provide an authoritative
> > reference work about the peerage on the Web (with an >emphasis on
> > Regency-era--and earlier--nobility).
>
> ..how many of you thought "But there ARE no nobles in the Regency!"??
>
> ;-)
LOL! That was exactly my reaction. ;-)
Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 12:58:22 +0100
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Traveller Find
Frank G. Pitt wrote:
> david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote :
> > A very common problem with those two sets - I've
> > NEVER seen them "unsquashed". The amount of paper
> > inside the boxes is too thin to justify the box -
> > maybe that's why the later "Aslan Class Ships"
> > just had the front and back in cardboard, with
> > no real "sides" (ie. more like an envelope than
> > a box).
>
> My copy was in a box.
> I suspect what you've got is somone's attempt to repair a
> badly squashed box.
I don't know about the Aslan ships (mine also came in a box), but
I do know that Adventure Ships (vol 1) was first released in
'flat envelope' packaging, then re-released in a box. The box
release had a second booklet and some cardboard counters included
which wasn't in the envelope release (just had the one booklet as
an extra). Maybe there were two releases of the Aslan ships?
Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 13:04:46 +0100
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Deja Vu All Over Again
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G}) wrote:
> In mail you write:
> >> Message begins ...
> >>
> >> THIS IS THE TIME COUNCIL. IGNORE PREVIOUS MESSAGE FROM SO-CALLED
> >> "TEMPORAL POLICE". THERE IS NO SUCH ORGANIZATION. THERE IS NO SUCH
> >> THING AS A GLITCH IN THE SPACE-TIME CONTINUUM. CONTINUE ABOUT YOUR
> >> BUSINESS AS IF NOTHING HAPPENED. WHICH IN FACT, IT DID... DIDN'T...
> >> ERRRR, DID.... CURSE THIS PRIMITIVE LANGUAGE. YOU KNOW WHAT WE MEAN.
> >> ALL WILL BE WELL AGAIN SHORTLY, ONCE WE MAKE A QUICK TRIP BACK TO
> >> 1862 AND FIX THAT WHOLE CONFEDERATE-ARMY-ACCIDENTALLY-CONQUERING-
> >> SWITZERLAND THING. WON'T TAKE BUT A MOMENT. LITERALLY. THANK YOU
> >> FOR YOUR NON-ATTENTION TO THIS MATTER.
> >>
> >> Message ends ...
> >
> > Message begins ...
> >
> > THIS IS THE TEMPORAL POLICE. PLEASE IGNORE ANY MESSAGES FROM THE
> > "TIME COUNCIL". THEY ARE FROM AN ALTERNATIVE BRANCHED REALITY
> > THAT WILL SHORTLY NEVER HAVE EXISTED. AFTER THAT YOU WILL NOT
> > HAVE RECEIVED ANY MESSAGES FROM THEM. YOU MAY REST ASSURED THAT
> > THE CONFEDERATE ARMY'S GLORIOUS VICTORY OVER SWITZERLAND IN THE
> > PAST WILL BE PRESERVED. THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION. HAVE A
> > NICE DAY.
> >
> > Message ends ...
>
> Pardon me? "Switzerland"? In 1862? Those rebellious peasants were
> suppressed and became the Duchy of Helvetia in 1507. Please
> try to keep your history straight.
Message begins ...
THIS IS THE TEMPORAL POLICE. WE <pooof!>
(<pooof!> = sound of evaporating non-reality)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 22:18:41 +1000
From: Rob <rhoughto@one.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller Find
> I don't know about the Aslan ships (mine also came in a box),
hrm...ship in a box...i'm sure there is probably a market for that
somewhere
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 13:17:39 +0100
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Traveller Find
Rob wrote:
> > I don't know about the Aslan ships (mine also came in a box),
>
> hrm...ship in a box...i'm sure there is probably a market for that
> somewhere
Oh great! Now I have an image stuck in my head of a 3000 dton
cardboard box!
Reagards PLST
(aka Stalin)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 08:06:40 -0600
From: "Thomas Vickers" <tvickers@conroe.isd.tenet.edu>
Subject: Re: GT: WANTED - Starport Construction Equipment
If you visit
http://members.tripod.com/AD2300/Equip.htm
Visit the construction equipment links.
The construction equipment was designed by an engineer on the 2300 list for
2300 AD.
It should give you some ideas.
TV
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 15:05:04 +0100
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Deja Vu All Over Again
> > > Message begins ...
> > >
> > > THIS IS THE TEMPORAL POLICE. PLEASE IGNORE ANY MESSAGES FROM THE
> > > "TIME COUNCIL". THEY ARE FROM AN ALTERNATIVE BRANCHED REALITY
> > > THAT WILL SHORTLY NEVER HAVE EXISTED. AFTER THAT YOU WILL NOT
> > > HAVE RECEIVED ANY MESSAGES FROM THEM. YOU MAY REST ASSURED THAT
> > > THE CONFEDERATE ARMY'S GLORIOUS VICTORY OVER SWITZERLAND IN THE
> > > PAST WILL BE PRESERVED. THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION. HAVE A
> > > NICE DAY.
> > >
> > > Message ends ...
> >
> > Pardon me? "Switzerland"? In 1862? Those rebellious peasants were
> > suppressed and became the Duchy of Helvetia in 1507. Please
> > try to keep your history straight.
>
> Message begins ...
>
> THIS IS THE TEMPORAL POLICE. WE <pooof!>
>
>
>
> (<pooof!> = sound of evaporating non-reality)
>
Please move along. Nothing to see here. Honest. FNORD.
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 22:21:01 +0800
From: Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>
Subject: Re: N.E. for Rachel was RE: Intro, etc.
Hi all!
Jesse DeGraff wrote:
>
> Hiya' Rachel!
> One canon ship of your choice, weathered (new is too easy ;), in space with
> a nebula background and full starfield. Preferably over a planetary
> surface. You have two weeks :)
>
Gah!
You're just asking me to do this to make sure SJG realize how good you
are, aren't you? "Look, this is an amateur version of the same ship --
see how good mine is?" :) Seriously, is it okay if I do a ship you
have already done? You've done most of the ones I'd have enough
interest or skill to do, and Mike Linsenmeyer has done all the other
ones. Hmm, maybe the close escort...
> For a little help, check out:
> http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/sulieman_tutorial.htm
> http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/mini_tex_tut.htm
>
Thanks. Actually, I discovered them long ago. Short though they be,
they're actually very helpful, Jesse.
> and
> http://members.home.com/lightwavetutorials/ which not only covers LW
> tutorials but Inspire tutorials as well.
>
Yep, I know about them too. Thanks.
> This assigning newbie essays bit is fun ;)
>
> BTW, you're off to a good start from the example I saw!
>
Yes, but -- a whole ship? I only just got Inspire a couple weeks ago!
Gah! :)
> All in good fun,
Exactly, and a good challenge. Thank you.
- -- Rachel
P.S. Hey Jesse, why don't you have any animations up at your site? I'd
love to see some avi's like Mike L.'s. One of your scout ships lifting
off from a planet, perhaps?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 15:41:40 +0100
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Ghost stories
TML@stempest.demon.co.uk wrote:
> > I kind of like the idea, but whether it works or not depends
> > on YTU. In canon the Tavrchedl' are more proactive in mental
> > health care, which is why crime rates are so low in the
> > Consulate and why it's citizens feel safe and secure (this
> > last is generally not due to brainwashing).
>
> I agree up to a point: normally the Tavrchedl' _would_ detect
> the husband's growing paranoia before it developed to the point
> that he killed his wife. However, screw-ups happen, even among
> the Zhodani - and it's that kind of screw-up that becomes the
> stuff of urban legend.
Then there's the Zhodani version of "Jeckel and Hyde": A Zhodani
trooper (a latent psi who went undetected) becomes a POW during
the last Frontier War. He was so traumatised that he developed
multiple personalities. One personality was similar to the
original well-adjusted prole, but the other personality is a dark
powerful psionic serial-killer who has a deep resentment of being
abandoned during the war. Every Tavrchedl' who scans the veteran
detects an ordinary and loyal prole, but a day later is found
dead from a psionic assault in the middle of the night, their
faces contorted in terror. And so a dangerous murderer is loose
on a Zhodani world and even the mighty Tavrchedl' can't find him
... while their agents keep dieing one by one.
Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 09:57:12 -0500
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Ghost stories
> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 15:04:22 +1000
> From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
> Subject: Re: Ghost stories
>
> Dear Folks -
>
> DaveShayne wrote:
> >Many years ago I lived a block away from a mortuary (Morton's Mortuary
> >in Grand Junction, CO in case anybody is interested.)
> [snip]
> >I tend to keep rather odd
> >hours and I would frequently pass this light in the dead of night going
to
> >and from wherever it was I was going to and from.
>
> Don't tell me - you were on the graveyard shift, right??
>
> ;-)
>
> (Sorry, I just couldn't pass that one up!)
Your forgiven. Actually I'm just a night person. I rarely see the dawn
unless
I haven't been to bed yet (like today for instance.) It's just the way I am.
David Shayne
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 16:27:12 +0100
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3819
Donavan L. wrote:
> > Pretty cool. The staterooms look like they have walls higher than
> > the stateroom is wide. Perhaps this is intentional, but I always
> > picture staterooms with something like a 3x3 m floor with a 2.25 m
> > ceiling. Let us know as you develop it.
>
> Well, that was one of the things I wasn't too sure about. I'm
> working from (mostly) GT with a smattering of CT references. In
> GT (pg 153) it assumes 6 1-yard squares, with headroom of 8-9
> feet and some space under the decks is one dton. The staterooms
> I used are 3 yd x 3 yd x 3 yd, which I thought may be a bit tall.
> Can anyone give me some hard references on this? I did some test
> renders from a camera actually inside the ship, and it seems
> awfully claustrophobic (although no worse than submarines, from
> what I've seen).
Original CT and MT deck plans usually had staterooms 3m x 4.5m
... and a height of about 2m (3m less between floor pipework,
grav plates, etc). This size was used for single and double
occupancy. Staterooms were technically 4dtons each in the design
but this size only accounts for 3 dtons ... therefore there is
1 dton of common area / corridor per stateroom. Corridors were
1.5m wide. I don't know what that is in Olde English measures
but all-in-all quite spacious.
> Oh, before I forget - fun with doors. Hatches are no problem,
> the one that threw me were the dimensions of iris valves. How
> tall are they? Are they circular, oblong, or something else?
I've seen oval, and rectangular with rounded corners. Check out
"Traders and Gunboats" from the CT Reprints.
> That brings me to an interesting question - do "canon" pictures
> of cockpits, seats, and other fixtures exist someplace out there?
There are a number of canon pictures of bridges (mainly OOP
products by DGP for MT). The "Starship Operator's Manual" has a
shot of a Free Trader's bridge (complete with coffee mug and IIRC
a tree-shaped air freshener). I think "World Builder's Handbook"
had a shot of the Donosev Survey Scout's bridge. And "Vilani and
Vargr" had a shot of a Vargr ship's bridge (the seats had gaps
for their tails).
> I would think as technology progresses, a "less is more"
> philosophy would develop - controls would become less cluttered,
> easier to use, etc. (I'm loathe to use Star Trek as an example,
> but the LCARS system is a pretty good concept).
Now if someone could come up with an LCARS look that's not Star
Trek's ...
Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 08:40:15 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: N.E. for Rachel was RE: Intro, etc.
> Gah!
:)
> You're just asking me to do this to make sure SJG realize how good you
> are, aren't you? "Look, this is an amateur version of the same ship --
> see how good mine is?" :)
Farthest thing from my mind. I love helping folks that are new to 3D get
their feet wet. Just ask Andy Akins how much I've helped him! (and how much
he's helped ME in return!!!! <re:airlocks for one thing>). In fact, that
mini texture tutorial started out as a personal e-mail to Andy :)
>Seriously, is it okay if I do a ship you
> have already done? You've done most of the ones I'd have enough
> interest or skill to do, and Mike Linsenmeyer has done all the other
> ones. Hmm, maybe the close escort...
Like I said, "of your choice" :) The Scout ship would likely be the
easiest, and allow you to really get your feet wet while not drowning in the
details :D One of the biggest advantages (besides me having the tutorial
there of course) is that it's VERY easy to texture. Two main texture maps
for the upper and lower hull which are very nearly interchangeable, and two
for the rear of the ship with a couple of incidental ones as well (airlocks,
turret, and a/r door). Compare this to the ~53 textured surfaces on the
Marava (UGH!!!) and you'll see what I mean ;) To do something like the
close escort (Gazelle or Fiery?) you have to do some serious adajacent
texture aligning, which can be a real pain.
> > For a little help, check out:
> >
> http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/sulieman_tutorial.htm
> > http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/mini_tex_tut.htm
> >
>
> Thanks. Actually, I discovered them long ago. Short though they be,
> they're actually very helpful, Jesse.
Thanks. I DO aim to improve them one of these days, and to finish the real
texture tutorial of course!
> > and
> > http://members.home.com/lightwavetutorials/ which not only covers LW
> > tutorials but Inspire tutorials as well.
> >
>
> Yep, I know about them too. Thanks.
I LOVE that site :)
> > BTW, you're off to a good start from the example I saw!
> >
>
> Yes, but -- a whole ship? I only just got Inspire a couple weeks ago!
> Gah! :)
You learn best under pressure :D Just ask me how much I've learned since I
started doing this stuff for SJG with Far Trader!!! A fast production
environment can teach you volumes!
> > All in good fun,
>
> Exactly, and a good challenge. Thank you.
My pleasure :)
> -- Rachel
>
> P.S. Hey Jesse, why don't you have any animations up at your site? I'd
> love to see some avi's like Mike L.'s. One of your scout ships lifting
> off from a planet, perhaps?
Haven't had any time! The normal course of events is I get an deadline for
a project from SJG that usually way too short (winks at Loren & Phil
good-naturedly), I work like mad until it's done, then I'm burnt out for
awhile, usually until the next project comes along ;) Couple that with the
other stuff that I want to do (like Traveller props), and it adds up to very
little spare time. And animation takes a LOT of time! One of these days
though. I've wanted to produce an animated opening intro for my website for
quite some time, as well as filming the "Traveller: The Wire" movie teaser
trailer, and a couple of other things to boot.
Best,
Jesse
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 09:08:35 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: Joining Trav3D...
I don't have the mailing list address here at work (and I was gone all
weekend) so I'll have to get it to you from there unless the list Mom sees
it ;) (You out there dude?)
As for what else is needed...
1.Contributors! Folks who want to build stuff or illustrate stuff to share
with the Traveller 3D community, and the general Traveller community at
large. And it's not just limited to 3D. 2D stuff is cool too! This could
include deckplan symbols (competition for the best set maybe? ;), deckplans
of ships, floorplans of buildings, alternate textures for public domain
Traveller models (I may be releasing all of mine, or at least some of them,
in the near future), world maps for texturing planets, or whatever else you
can think of resource-wise.
2.Webmaster. Downport.com has graciously offered to host the site (and had
a link to the mock-up for awhile, but dropped it when we stalled ;) While
my own site, Vision Forge Graphics, has unlimited space and (reasonably)
unlimited traffic restrictions, I don't really have the time to act as
webmaster for Trav3D. Also, I'm not the best coder in the world ;) In
fact, I CAN'T code to save my life. I still use M$ Front Page to do my
website <GASP!!! The horror!!!>.
3.INTEREST! Rhyms with Contributors to start with. Folks that join and are
interested need to follow through. We let ourselves stall when it was first
founded. I don't wanna' let that happen again. Continuing interest from
the community at large would keep the site alive, and maybe help foster the
continuing growth in the 3D and technical illustration of the Traveller
universe. Maybe we can get some more people hooked on these fun mediums ;)
I've already got a couple of spare-time kills (i.e. someone started doing 3D
stuff) to my credit >:)
That's all for now, more when I get home...
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Donavan L.
> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 3:55 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3820
>
>
>
> >This is what the Trav 3D group was formed for. As I got busy with SJG
> stuff
> >again, it never took off much beyond the mailing list. A page mockup is
> >here:
> >http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/trav3d/trav3d1.htm
> >
> >Let me know if you're interested. Maybe some new blood is what
> we need to
> >get the program kickstarted :)
>
>
> Yes, I'm very interested! Where do I sign up (given that most of
> the last 2
> days has been spent working on this project, going through a major layout
> revision)? Seriously, what do we need to kickstart Trav3d? Web page
> development, management, ?. Let me know what we need, and I'll
> take a swing
> at it.
>
> Donavan L.
>
>
>
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3823
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3824
Date: | 3/26/01 1:51:44 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Monday, March 26 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3824
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Traveller Find
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3819
RE: TRaveller and Star Trek: Please dont Flame me too qiuckly
Starship bridge artwork....
Re: Traveller Find
Re: WANTED: Orbital Mechanic
RE: Traveller Find
Re: WANTED: Orbital Mechanic
Re: Traveller Find
Semi-OT: 3D probs
RE: Semi-OT: 3D probs
Re: Cardboard Starships
Re: GT: WANTED - Starport Construction Equipment
Re: Semi-OT: 3D probs
Re: Starship bridge artwork....
Re: Traveller Find
Re: TRaveller and Star Trek: Please dont Flame me too qiuckly
Re: Starship bridge artwork....
RE: Semi-OT: 3D probs
RE: Starship bridge artwork....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 20:24:19 +0300 (EET DST)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: Re: Traveller Find
On Mon, 26 Mar 2001, Rob wrote:
> > I don't know about the Aslan ships (mine also came in a box),
> hrm...ship in a box...i'm sure there is probably a market for that
> somewhere
Aslan ship in a box?
Isn't there some uncertainty if the ship is blown-up or not? Or maybe both
at the same time, if no one else has a sensor lock on it?
- --
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 12:27:39 -0500
From: "Rob Davenport" <rgd@ohio.voyager.net>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3819
On 26 Mar 2001, at 16:27, Trevor, Peter wrote:
> Original CT and MT deck plans usually had staterooms 3m x 4.5m
> ... and a height of about 2m (3m less between floor pipework,
> grav plates, etc). This size was used for single and double
> occupancy. Staterooms were technically 4dtons each in the design
> but this size only accounts for 3 dtons ... therefore there is
> 1 dton of common area / corridor per stateroom. Corridors were
> 1.5m wide. I don't know what that is in Olde English measures
> but all-in-all quite spacious.
Hmm - has anyone extrapolated the numbers needed if you built
a ship with a decidedly non-spacious feel? I.e. more submarinerish.
I would think the costs would go down somewhat with smaller spaces
for required components, and it might be more apropos for historical,
and lower-tech (7-9?) ships, or ships from 'economically challenged worlds'.
Imagine finding an Interstellar War era ship still being used in some
backwater system as their only SDB.
> > I would think as technology progresses, a "less is more"
> > philosophy would develop - controls would become less cluttered,
> > easier to use, etc. (I'm loathe to use Star Trek as an example,
> > but the LCARS system is a pretty good concept).
>
> Now if someone could come up with an LCARS look that's not Star
> Trek's ...
I remember reading a bit about 'holo-controls'[1], something about
each operator being able (and required) to configure their station
to present the displays and controls needed. The ship's captain
could tell something of the skill of the navigator/sensor ops/etc.
person by how and how fast they configured their station.
I think this may have been in Pierce Askegren(sp?)'s T4 novel,
"Gateway to the Stars" IIRC.
Rob
[1] the 'holo' word seems way overused if you ask me.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 09:27:15 -0800
From: William Lane <wlane@Asera.com>
Subject: RE: TRaveller and Star Trek: Please dont Flame me too qiuckly
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0B61A.00720050
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Has anyone had any success wooing ST fans to Traveller and is so, how?
[William Lane]
Well in the past i never ahd a problem wooing Star Trek fans into traveller
campains. for the most part they are usually avid Sci Fi fans over all. Lord
knows i like trek. But I like trek because i like Sci Fi and Trek did have
some really good writers making stories for them.
Also, Beyond the physics differences, what problems would i have in
converting some of my GURPs traveller stuff to LUG trek (if anyone still
remembers it.)?
[William Lane]
What is LUG trek? Well of the big differences i see right off are the
following. Slug Throwers are prominate in traveller. only slug throwers you
ever see in trek are the muskets used by Low tech people or some weird plot
twist to have capt kirk refight the OK corral. so you might have to refigure
your weapons tables and such.
PAtrick
- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0B61A.00720050
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid">
<DIV>Has anyone had any success wooing ST fans
to Traveller and is so, how?
</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=299442317-26032001>
<DIV><SPAN class=299442317-26032001> size=2>[William Lane]</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=299442317-26032001> color=#0000ff>Well in the past i never ahd a problem wooing Star Trek fans
into traveller campains. for the most part they are usually avid Sci Fi fans
over all. Lord knows i like trek. But I like trek because i like Sci Fi and
Trek did have some really good writers&nbsp;making stories for
them.&nbsp;&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV><SPAN
class=299442317-26032001></SPAN>
<DIV>
&nbsp;</SPAN>
size=2>Also, &nbsp;Beyond the physics differences, what problems would i have
in
converting some of my GURPs traveller stuff to LUG trek (if anyone
still
remembers it.)?
<SPAN class=299442317-26032001> color=#0000ff>[William Lane]&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=299442317-26032001> color=#0000ff>What is LUG trek? Well of the big differences i see right off
are the following. Slug Throwers are prominate in traveller. only slug
throwers you ever see in trek are the muskets used by Low tech people or some
weird plot twist to have capt kirk refight the OK corral. so you might have to
refigure your weapons tables and
such.&nbsp;</SPAN>
PAtrick
</DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0B61A.00720050--
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 09:29:33 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: Starship bridge artwork....
One of the things that's kept me from doing anything like a full bridge
(aside from TIME!!!) is how to represent it? I'd pretty much planned on
using the DGP products mentioned as my main reference, and refine the idea
along the way. I just couldn't really come up with a good idea to represent
a TL15 holographic & dynamically configurable control panel....
That has changed I'm happy to say! Check out the trailer for the upcoming
Final Fantasy movie for an example of what I'm talking about. There's some
holographic gear being used by the female lead that just screams "MINE AND
ADAPT ME FOR TRAVELLER" to me. Check out http://www.finalfantasy.com to see
what I'm talking about. Unfortunately for you old-timers <tongue severely
in cheek> ;) you'll need a fast pipe and a modern, Flash-enabled browser.
So, the problem isn't "How to come up with a non-Star Trek looking Traveller
LCARS interface", but rather "Adapting and implementing a 3D, non-Star Trek
looking Traveller LCARS interface" ;D
Maybe for G:T Starships?....
Best,
Jesse
> There are a number of canon pictures of bridges (mainly OOP
> products by DGP for MT). The "Starship Operator's Manual" has a
> shot of a Free Trader's bridge (complete with coffee mug and IIRC
> a tree-shaped air freshener). I think "World Builder's Handbook"
> had a shot of the Donosev Survey Scout's bridge. And "Vilani and
> Vargr" had a shot of a Vargr ship's bridge (the seats had gaps
> for their tails).
>
>
>
> > I would think as technology progresses, a "less is more"
> > philosophy would develop - controls would become less cluttered,
> > easier to use, etc. (I'm loathe to use Star Trek as an example,
> > but the LCARS system is a pretty good concept).
>
> Now if someone could come up with an LCARS look that's not Star
> Trek's ...
>
>
>
> Regards PLST
> (aka Stalin)
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 11:28:24 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@home.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Find
"Trevor, Peter" wrote:
> Rob wrote:
> > > I don't know about the Aslan ships (mine also came in a box),
> >
> > hrm...ship in a box...i'm sure there is probably a market for that
> > somewhere
>
> Oh great! Now I have an image stuck in my head of a 3000 dton
> cardboard box!
Can you imagine how thick the caredbroard is?
- --
"Fortes fortuna juvat"
Evyn
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition."
-- William Shakespeare, King Henry the Fifth, IV:iii:60-63
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 11:33:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: WANTED: Orbital Mechanic
Paul Drye writes:
> I'm in need of a way of getting a planet from interstellar space slowed
> down and inserted into an orbit around a star. The orbit can be
> elliptical if necessary, but not radically so -- say at worst the
> equivalent of swinging from Venus-like distances at perihelion and
> Mars-like at aphelion.
You're going to need a close encounter with a planet (or a star, if you're
dealing with a binary system), in which case the correct path will result
in transferring some kinetic energy from the rogue planet to the orbiting
body. As noted, this probably won't be very stable, but an interaction with
more than one planet might eventually round out the orbit.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 11:46:32 -0800
From: William Lane <wlane@Asera.com>
Subject: RE: Traveller Find
> "Trevor, Peter" wrote:
>
> > Rob wrote:
> > > > I don't know about the Aslan ships (mine also came in a box),
> > >
> > > hrm...ship in a box...i'm sure there is probably a market for that
> > > somewhere
> >
> > Oh great! Now I have an image stuck in my head of a 3000 dton
> > cardboard box!
>
> Can you imagine how thick the caredbroard is?
>
Better yet can you imagine the look on the poor Fed-Ex guys face when he
arrives to pick it up.
Fed-Ex guy arrives at building walks down wall to person standing there
"Where is the package im here to pick up"
"Your standing next to it"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 20:01:55
From: "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: WANTED: Orbital Mechanic
One example of a single body capture (or nearly so) on a smaller scale was
Comet Shoemaker-Levy 9. The comet and Jupiter were both orbiting the sun (as
your planet and star orbit the center of the galaxy). SL-9 was captured a
little too well and hit Jupiter on the next rev. A slightly weaker encounter
like this between the star and the planet could capture your planet in the
star's system where it could be perturbed into its final orbit by
interactions with larger planets. Partial fragmentation the planet would be
an interesting alternative to melting.
I remember seeing some detailed analyses of the SL-9 capture process around
the time of the event, but haven't been able to locate them. Here is a note
from:
http://www.solarviews.com/eng/comet/motion.htm
"In the case of Shoemaker-Levy 9 we have the perfect example both of large
perturbations and their possible consequences. The comet was fragmented and
perturbed into an orbit where the pieces will hit Jupiter one period later.
In general, one must note that Jupiter's gravity (or that of other planets)
is perfectly capable of changing the energy of a comet's orbit sufficiently
to throw it clear out of the solar system (to give it escape velocity from
the solar system) and has done so on numerous occasions. This is exactly the
same physical effect that permits using planets to change the orbital energy
of a spacecraft in so-called gravity-assist maneuvers, such as were used by
the Voyager spacecraft to visit all the outer planets except Pluto. "
John
>From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
>Paul Drye writes:
> > I'm in need of a way of getting a planet from interstellar space slowed
> > down and inserted into an orbit around a star. The orbit can be
> > elliptical if necessary, but not radically so -- say at worst the
> > equivalent of swinging from Venus-like distances at perihelion and
> > Mars-like at aphelion.
>
>You're going to need a close encounter with a planet (or a star, if you're
>dealing with a binary system), in which case the correct path will result
>in transferring some kinetic energy from the rogue planet to the orbiting
>body. As noted, this probably won't be very stable, but an interaction
>with
>more than one planet might eventually round out the orbit.
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 11:22:51 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Find
Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com> wrote
> Rob wrote:
> > > I don't know about the Aslan ships (mine also came in a box),
> > hrm...ship in a box...i'm sure there is probably a market for that
> > somewhere
> Oh great! Now I have an image stuck in my head of a 3000 dton
> cardboard box!
Why not?
There have been fictional starships made out of wood, why not
cardboard? If you're feeling ambitious you could set up a design
contest for best 3000 dt starship with a cardboard hull. :)
- --
Did you ever wonder if Lassie had Munchausen by Proxy?
Timmy sure seemed to fall down a lot of wells.
Peter Newman pnewman@gci.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 04:32:07 +0800
From: Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>
Subject: Semi-OT: 3D probs
By the way, Jesse...
How do you avoid bad geometry when you do all those booleans in the
Suleiman? Doesn't the surface end up warped as can be? Do you work
around this somehow, or just texture dark enough that it doesn't get
noticed?
Sorry if this is horribly off-topic...
- -- Rachel
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 12:56:56 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: Semi-OT: 3D probs
The trick is........
wait for it....................
DON'T boolean (if you can help it that is ;) Lightwave, and I'm assuming
Inspire since it uses LW as it's core programming AFAIK, doesn't REQUIRE you
to boolean objects in modeler together to make them seem a single object in
Layout or your final render. For example, in LW I can create a sphere in
one layer, and a square in a second layer. Make both layers active (shift +
click on them) and then do file/save as and it's now ONE object. Granted,
it has all the geometry of BOTH objects (and thus their surface area for
texturing purposes, something you need to remember), but it is one object
when you load it into Layout.
The only time I boolean things is when I have no choice. Like airlocks,
landing strut doors (if I want to have the landing gear be able to extend or
retract), cockpit windows, etc. There are tricks to booleans that can help
you eliminate or reduce the distortion you've seen, but the simplest is
don't do it if you can help it :) If you have no choice, then here's some
guidelines:
1.The flatter the surface, the cleaner the boolean is going to be. A
boolean in a square is going to be a lot cleaner than the same boolen done
in a sphere.
2.Get the nearest polygon edges as close as possible to the section you're
doing a boolean operation on. An exaple would be an airlock in the side of
a cutter.
Please excuese my crappy ASCII art ;)
|-----------------\
| - \
| | | |
| - /
|-----------------/
If you do this, you're going to get some pretty hefty artifacts.
|----------|---|--\
| | - | \
| || || |
| | - | /
|----------|---|--/
If, however, you slice the hull on either side of the airlock, and have the
top and bottom really close to the nearest top & bottom polygon lines,
you'll minimize or possibly eliminate all noticeable artifacts.
If you have trouble deciphering my ASCII art or writing, let me know and
I'll post some screen captures. I just didn't really have the time to do
some right this minute ;)
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Rachel Kronick
> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 12:32 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Semi-OT: 3D probs
>
>
> By the way, Jesse...
>
> How do you avoid bad geometry when you do all those booleans in the
> Suleiman? Doesn't the surface end up warped as can be? Do you work
> around this somehow, or just texture dark enough that it doesn't get
> noticed?
>
> Sorry if this is horribly off-topic...
>
> -- Rachel
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 05:13:20 +0800
From: Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>
Subject: Re: Cardboard Starships
Hi all!
Peter Newman wrote:
> Why not?
>
> There have been fictional starships made out of wood, why not
> cardboard? If you're feeling ambitious you could set up a design
> contest for best 3000 dt starship with a cardboard hull. :)
>
I respectfully refer everyone to the Shockwave site:
<http://www.romm.org/audio/>. It's a nifty little fan SF radio show
produced in Minneapolis. Minneapolis is also famous for its annual Milk
Carton Boat Race, and so naturally Shockwave did a a show about the
Minneapolis Lunatennial Milk Carton Satellite Race. Cardboard
starships, yep, that's it. Check it out if you haven't -- all the shows
are great.
- -- Rachel (who's from Minneapolis)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 23:11:53 +0200
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: GT: WANTED - Starport Construction Equipment
Paul Harris wrote:
> Just an interested question.... whats a Class I starport?
> (I don't have gurps)
A flat patch of ground with a building next to it.
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 05:16:31 +0800
From: Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>
Subject: Re: Semi-OT: 3D probs
Hi!
Okay, I think I got all of that, but the thing is, how do you do all
those smooth shifts, stencils, etc. without creating screwy geometry? I
tried to inset the back end of the Suleiman and got really bizarre
geometry. (Of course, in good quantum form, back when I didn't know
about geometry problems and was just trying out your tutorial, I didn't
have that problem. Bleah.)
Awaiting expectantly...
- -- Rachel
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 23:23:48 +0200
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Starship bridge artwork....
Jesse Degraff wrote:
> That has changed I'm happy to say! Check out the trailer for the upcoming
> Final Fantasy movie for an example of what I'm talking about. There's some
> holographic gear being used by the female lead that just screams "MINE AND
> ADAPT ME FOR TRAVELLER" to me. Check out http://www.finalfantasy.com to see
> what I'm talking about. Unfortunately for you old-timers <tongue severely
> in cheek> ;) you'll need a fast pipe and a modern, Flash-enabled browser.
That one one of the WORST DAMN WEBSITES I've ever seen...
I do have a Flash plugin now, but the site is impossible to navigate. The
thumbnails in the gallery are all blurry, so it's impossible to find the
thumbnail you are referring to.
Could you please post a direct link?
I really HATE Flash! As a matter of fact, I hate using unneccessary solutions
for websites. All it does is shutting people out and increasing access time.
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 13:21:39 -0800
From: "Pronto" <pronto_r031@telus.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Find
> > "Trevor, Peter" wrote:
> >
> > > Rob wrote:
> > > > > I don't know about the Aslan ships (mine also came in a box),
> > > >
> > > > hrm...ship in a box...i'm sure there is probably a market for that
> > > > somewhere
> > >
> > > Oh great! Now I have an image stuck in my head of a 3000 dton
> > > cardboard box!
> >
> > Can you imagine how thick the caredbroard is?
> >
> Better yet can you imagine the look on the poor Fed-Ex guys face when he
> arrives to pick it up.
>
> Fed-Ex guy arrives at building walks down wall to person standing there
>
> "Where is the package im here to pick up"
>
> "Your standing next to it"
>
I knew Fed-Ex was good, but I didn't know they could walk down walls...
Pronto
AKA Brian Taylor
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 23:28:39 +0200
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: TRaveller and Star Trek: Please dont Flame me too qiuckly
Spm073@aol.com wrote:
> Also, Beyond the physics differences, what problems would i have in
> converting some of my GURPs traveller stuff to LUG trek (if anyone still
> remembers it.)?
I have no idea of LUG rules, but I imagine that a problem would be the
relatively high lethality in Traveller compared to Star Trek (except if you wear
clothes of the wrong color ;-)
Another problem would be the significantly lower number of aliens.
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 13:35:50 -0800
From: "Thing" <thingunderthestairs@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Starship bridge artwork....
On Monday, March 26, 2001 1:23 PM
Jens Rydholm said,
> I really HATE Flash! As a matter of fact, I hate using unneccessary
solutions
> for websites. All it does is shutting people out and increasing access
time.
What are you talking about. The web isn't about providing access to
information, or any easy, streamlined interface, It's all about providing
the user "A rich multi-media experience" (whether they want it or not.) You
obviously don't understand what the users want.
Actually I have been told this directly on more than one occasion when I
have complained about it the company folks. I work for a company that
provides on-line ordering, and the home page for ordering has a flash object
on it that forces you to download something 20 times the size of the rest of
the page just for some eye candy. The animation isn't even really in theme
with the site.
G.D.D.
ThingUnderTheStairs
Minion of SheChemist and GothBunny
Grand Master of the Electron Flow
===========================
"The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human
ambition." -Carl Sagan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 13:48:28 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: Semi-OT: 3D probs
Same thing that applies to booleans (i.e. closeness of adjacent polygons)
applys to operations like smooth shift, stencil, etc.
Here, I threw together a quick example before I have to go off to a
production meeting. It's at:
http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/resources/tutorials/ind
ex.htm
Later!
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Rachel Kronick
> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 1:17 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: Semi-OT: 3D probs
>
>
> Hi!
>
> Okay, I think I got all of that, but the thing is, how do you do all
> those smooth shifts, stencils, etc. without creating screwy geometry? I
> tried to inset the back end of the Suleiman and got really bizarre
> geometry. (Of course, in good quantum form, back when I didn't know
> about geometry problems and was just trying out your tutorial, I didn't
> have that problem. Bleah.)
>
> Awaiting expectantly...
>
> -- Rachel
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 13:50:36 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: Starship bridge artwork....
Sorry, I was referring to the her using the hardware in the TRAILER. Go to
the Clips section and watch the trailer.
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Jens Rydholm
> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 1:24 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: Starship bridge artwork....
>
>
> Jesse Degraff wrote:
> > That has changed I'm happy to say! Check out the trailer for
> the upcoming
> > Final Fantasy movie for an example of what I'm talking about.
> There's some
> > holographic gear being used by the female lead that just
> screams "MINE AND
> > ADAPT ME FOR TRAVELLER" to me. Check out
http://www.finalfantasy.com to see
> what I'm talking about. Unfortunately for you old-timers <tongue severely
> in cheek> ;) you'll need a fast pipe and a modern, Flash-enabled browser.
That one one of the WORST DAMN WEBSITES I've ever seen...
I do have a Flash plugin now, but the site is impossible to navigate. The
thumbnails in the gallery are all blurry, so it's impossible to find the
thumbnail you are referring to.
Could you please post a direct link?
I really HATE Flash! As a matter of fact, I hate using unneccessary
solutions
for websites. All it does is shutting people out and increasing access time.
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3824
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From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
Date: | 3/27/01 12:24:45 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Tuesday, March 27 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3825
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
RE: Starship bridge artwork....
Re: A Ghost by any other name
Re: Starship bridge artwork....
RE: size of staterooms
Re: Starship bridge artwork....
Re: Starship bridge artwork....
RE: Starship bridge artwork....
Re: Traveller Trek
RE: GT: WANTED - Starport Construction Equipment
Re: N.E. for Rachel was RE: Intro, etc.
Re: Another Customer of Alices!
Re: Semi-OT: 3D probs
quick ACQ question
Re: quick ACQ question
Re: Calculating satellite orbits
RE: N.E. for Rachel was RE: Intro, etc.
RE: Semi-OT: 3D probs
Re: GT: WANTED - Starport Construction Equipment
RE: Traveller Find
Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
Re: Traveller Find
RE: Traveller Find
RE: Starship bridge artwork....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 14:00:04 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: Starship bridge artwork....
I completely agree with you Thing. It's one thing if it's SUPPOSED to be
a "multi-media" experience, but high-zoot gadgets that don't do s#!t for
*functionality* really get my goat. Your online ordering is a perfect
example. A customer is there to ORDER PRODUCT, not get wowed by some
SuperWidget (tm).
As for Jens description of the website....I'm 50/50. It IS supposed to be
one of the afore-mentioned multi-media sites, but it certainly DOES seem to
use SuperWidgets (tm) just for the sake of using SuperWidgets (tm), and not
for telling a story or imparting serious information about the movie.
FWIW, YMMV, DSLIMHABTF,
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Thing
> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 1:36 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: Starship bridge artwork....
>
>
> On Monday, March 26, 2001 1:23 PM
> Jens Rydholm said,
>
> > I really HATE Flash! As a matter of fact, I hate using unneccessary
> solutions
> > for websites. All it does is shutting people out and increasing access
> time.
>
> What are you talking about. The web isn't about providing access to
> information, or any easy, streamlined interface, It's all about providing
> the user "A rich multi-media experience" (whether they want it or
> not.) You
> obviously don't understand what the users want.
>
> Actually I have been told this directly on more than one occasion when I
> have complained about it the company folks. I work for a company that
> provides on-line ordering, and the home page for ordering has a
> flash object
> on it that forces you to download something 20 times the size of
> the rest of
> the page just for some eye candy. The animation isn't even
> really in theme
> with the site.
>
> G.D.D.
> ThingUnderTheStairs
> Minion of SheChemist and GothBunny
> Grand Master of the Electron Flow
> ===========================
> "The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human
> ambition." -Carl Sagan
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 14:16:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: A Ghost by any other name
- --- Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@home.com> wrote:
>
>
> "Mark F. Cook" wrote:
>
> > I guess my "Viet Nam" era age is showing. When I
> read "PBR", I immediately
> > think of the riverine patrol boats (PBR=Patrol
> Boat, River) that operated
> > in the
> > delta during the late 60s and early 70s.
>
> 2s, 3s, and on the rare instance a 4.... Or I had
> the same thought.
>
That's OK, a co-worker who was reading an earlier
post over my shoulder asked me why a noble would want
his dead wife to be Pabst Blue Ribbon....
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 14:23:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
Subject: Re: Starship bridge artwork....
On Mon, 26 Mar 2001, Thing wrote:
> On Monday, March 26, 2001 1:23 PM
> Jens Rydholm said,
>
> > I really HATE Flash! As a matter of fact, I hate using unneccessary
> solutions
> > for websites. All it does is shutting people out and increasing access
> time.
>
> What are you talking about. The web isn't about providing access to
> information, or any easy, streamlined interface, It's all about providing
> the user "A rich multi-media experience" (whether they want it or not.) You
> obviously don't understand what the users want.
>
Oh god I thought I was the only one. I so so so SO loathe flash.
Kiri ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..." -- X-JAPAN
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 17:32:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: RE: size of staterooms
Peter Trevor writes:
>Original CT and MT deck plans usually had staterooms 3m x 4.5m
>... and a height of about 2m (3m less between floor pipework,
>grav plates, etc). This size was used for single and double
>occupancy. Staterooms were technically 4dtons each in the design
>but this size only accounts for 3 dtons ... therefore there is
>1 dton of common area / corridor per stateroom. Corridors were
>1.5m wide. I don't know what that is in Olde English measures
>but all-in-all quite spacious.
In English measure that is 9' 10" wide x 14' 9" long x 6' 7" high.
I give the height as 2.25 m (half of 1.5 m square used for
gravetics et al), for a 7' 4" ceiling. Reasonably roomy, but not
what I would call spacious for a 10-day trip on a passenger
carrier. Many modern accomidations might be smaller, but
very large common areas are typically provided. I am even
stingier, with staterooms only 3x3 m. I have found that just
the access halls to the staterooms eats up a lot of what is left.
Common freshers, lounges, and air locks are made up with
anything left after that.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 14:35:30 -0800
From: "Thing" <thingunderthestairs@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Starship bridge artwork....
On Monday, March 26, 2001 2:23 PM
Kiri Aradia Morgan said,
> Oh god I thought I was the only one. I so so so SO loathe flash.
Ah Kiri, you should know you are not alone.
<Queen>
Flash ah ah, king of the impossible.
Flash ah ah, he saved every one of us.
</Queen>
G.D.D.
ThingUnderTheStairs
Minion of SheChemist and GothBunny
Grand Master of the Electron Flow
===========================
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with
sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." -Galileo
Galilei
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 01:24:46 +0200
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Starship bridge artwork....
Jesse Degraff wrote:
> Sorry, I was referring to the her using the hardware in the TRAILER. Go to
> the Clips section and watch the trailer.
Which in turn requires QuickTime. Going to the download page for the QuickTime
plugin, I see versions for Windows and Mac, but not Unix.
*sound of fumes coming out of my nose and ears*
Ah well, I'll have to check it the next time I run Windows.
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 15:34:26 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: Starship bridge artwork....
<Mel Gibson>
Whoops...
</Mel Gibson>
Sorry about that Jens :( I'll see if I can grab some stills or find some
stills of it for the "browser impaired" folks <duck, run, cover>
Best,
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Jens Rydholm
> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 3:25 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: Starship bridge artwork....
>
>
> Jesse Degraff wrote:
> > Sorry, I was referring to the her using the hardware in the
> TRAILER. Go to
> > the Clips section and watch the trailer.
>
> Which in turn requires QuickTime. Going to the download page for
> the QuickTime
> plugin, I see versions for Windows and Mac, but not Unix.
>
> *sound of fumes coming out of my nose and ears*
>
> Ah well, I'll have to check it the next time I run Windows.
>
> * Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
> | jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
> | ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
> * http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 19:34:06 -0500
From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: Traveller Trek
>Has anyone had any success wooing ST fans to Traveller and is so, how?
Wooing Trek fans to Traveller should be no problem. The biggest issue is to make plain up-front this isn't the Trek Universe -- no transporters, no sub-space radio, no holodeck, no Prime Directive. Make sure they understand the importance of money/trade and the decentralized, feudal nature of the Imperial government.
Hpwever, once all that's clear, it shouldn't be hard at all to come up with Trek-feeling adventures. Emphasize diplomacy, exploration, and encounters with the Strange above mercenary combat and nitty-gritty trade and commerce. I suggest making the PCs part of the crew of a naval vessel on a diplomatic mission beyond the Imperium. I actually ran a campaign like this years ago; it was lots of fun while it lasted (not long enough).
Trent
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 17:23:08 -0800
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com>
Subject: RE: GT: WANTED - Starport Construction Equipment
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Also - Pinkerdoo has some construction equpiment for G:T laying
around their site - members.home.com/pinkerdoo
- - -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Thomas Vickers
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 6:07 AM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: Re: GT: WANTED - Starport Construction Equipment
If you visit
http://members.tripod.com/AD2300/Equip.htm
Visit the construction equipment links.
The construction equipment was designed by an engineer on the 2300
list for
2300 AD.
It should give you some ideas.
TV
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com>
iQA/AwUBOr/rfKMvJrXJnSV0EQLkQQCeL3EXpyshbnEZ3dz4X2JrtTPJYy0AoNyQ
u04rtV7PGlP3a15kuVRYXcBb
=N++b
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 19:43:24 -0600
From: Charles R Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net>
Subject: Re: N.E. for Rachel was RE: Intro, etc.
Jesse wrote:
>One canon ship of your choice, weathered (new is too easy ;), in space
with
>a nebula background and full starfield. Preferably over a planetary
>surface. You have two weeks :)
How about some more help for us wanabes.
I'm still having trouble with textures, bump maps, decals, etc.
Charles H
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 12:57:26 +1000
From: Rob <rhoughto@one.net.au>
Subject: Re: Another Customer of Alices!
<Rob goes and hides under the bed muttering about conspiricies>
Craig Brain wrote:
> My brother drops into Alice's yesterday, and I do business with her by
> email - haven't been able to go there in person in nearly 9 years!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:09:28 +0800
From: Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>
Subject: Re: Semi-OT: 3D probs
Hi all!
Jesse Degraff wrote:
Very good! Thank you. However, there's one little thing -- Inspire
doesn't have a knife tool. I've tried just subdividing and tripling and
whatnot, but I still get boolean errors. Hmm, I guess I just have to
plan my polygons better before I boolean them, eh? Oh well, this seems
to be a consistent problem with Inspire/Lightwave and other programs.
:/ But thanks anyway, Jesse!
- -- Rachel
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 21:23:56 -0600 (CST)
From: Gregory Carl Kettler <gckettle@midway.uchicago.edu>
Subject: quick ACQ question
This product and the new deckplans were made for each other. On to
business...
"If the total number of damage dice exceeds the target's STR, the target
is knocked to the ground" (p. 29).
For this purpose, has STR already been reduced by the current
attack? That is, if a thug with STR 6 is hit by a 4-damage-dice attack
which reduces his STR to 3, does he fall down?
Greg Kettler
"Of course, if you're writing the code to control a cruise missile, you
may not actually need an explicit loop exit. The loop will be terminated
automatically at the appropriate moment."
-Programming Perl, 3rd Ed.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 19:45:50 -0800
From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: quick ACQ question
At 09:23 PM 03/26/01 -0600, you wrote:
>This product and the new deckplans were made for each other. On to
>business...
>"If the total number of damage dice exceeds the target's STR, the target
>is knocked to the ground" (p. 29).
>For this purpose, has STR already been reduced by the current
>attack? That is, if a thug with STR 6 is hit by a 4-damage-dice attack
>which reduces his STR to 3, does he fall down?
STR at the moment he is hit. In your example, he would not be knocked over
my the attack.
- --
Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is that I am now a
perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague here is rapidly running out of
limbs!" - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 22:32:16 -0600
From: JR Holmes <jrholmes@wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Calculating satellite orbits
On Mon, 26 Mar 2001 10:55:43 +0100, "John G. Wood"
<elvwood@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>JR Holmes <jrholmes@wi.rr.com> wrote:
>> Depending upon the bend of your players, it may be enough to simply
>> say that the highport is in a Molniya orbit which spends 75% of its
>> time over the downport (and pick your orbital period as some
>> convenient value). They are probably not going to look at the math
>> necessary for checking the validity of the orbit.
>
>Sadly, I have no Traveller players -- this is all for my landgrab entry
> http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/Prilissa.html
>(although some of the results will be used in an article I will be
>submitting to JTAS).
>
>Anyway, this is all just a bit of colour, as you say -- I can make use
>of the fact that it's a long time away from the downport to help
>justify the infrequent shuttle flights that are already part of the
>write-up.
Well, if we are talking about something that needs to stand up to the
inspection of the TML rockheads, you may have little choice to do the
math work. Obviously, it isn't suitable call it a Molniya orbit
unless the planet is set in the Solomani sphere.
- --
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 20:32:02 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: N.E. for Rachel was RE: Intro, etc.
For a little help, check out:
http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/sulieman_tutorial.htm
http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/mini_tex_tut.htm
First one handles modeling, second one handles texturing. If it needs to be
more clearly explained, let me know and I'll try and re-write the
tutorial....
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Charles R Hensley
> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 5:43 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: N.E. for Rachel was RE: Intro, etc.
>
>
> Jesse wrote:
>
> >One canon ship of your choice, weathered (new is too easy ;), in space
> with
> >a nebula background and full starfield. Preferably over a planetary
> >surface. You have two weeks :)
>
> How about some more help for us wanabes.
>
> I'm still having trouble with textures, bump maps, decals, etc.
>
> Charles H
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 20:37:00 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: Semi-OT: 3D probs
You could get around this limitation IF Inspire lets you select groups of
points and then move them. If that's the case, just build the cylinder with
more subdivisions on the long axis, then lasso sets of points and move them
closer to our airlock opening.
<editorial comment>
No knife tool?!?! What a pain in the A$$!!!!!! I hope someone out there in
Inspire land has written, or will write, a knife plugin! It's a VERY
valuable tool!
</editorial comment>
So yeah, you'll have to plan your meshes VERY carefully. If all else fails
(i.e. no plug-in out there) just add a couple more subdivisions to what you
estimate you'll need. You'll more than likely end up needing them at some
point. I can almost guarentee it!
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Rachel Kronick
> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 7:09 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: Semi-OT: 3D probs
>
>
> Hi all!
>
> Jesse Degraff wrote:
>
>
>
> Very good! Thank you. However, there's one little thing -- Inspire
> doesn't have a knife tool. I've tried just subdividing and tripling and
> whatnot, but I still get boolean errors. Hmm, I guess I just have to
> plan my polygons better before I boolean them, eh? Oh well, this seems
> to be a consistent problem with Inspire/Lightwave and other programs.
> :/ But thanks anyway, Jesse!
>
> -- Rachel
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 14:24:57 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: GT: WANTED - Starport Construction Equipment
Dear Folks -
Sethkimmel suggested:
>How about a Grav vehicle that combines the function of bulldozer, road
>grader, excavator, payloader and backhoe? (the nice thing about living in
>'Vegas is you get to see a LOT of construction equipment...)
All together now:
"Scoop, Muck and Dizzy
And Roley too
Lofty and Wendy
Join the crew!
Bob and the gang
Have so much fun
Working together
They get the job done!
Bob the Builder
Can we fix it?
Bob the Builder
YES WE CAN!!
(Er, yeah, I think so!)"
;-)
Sorry, hours and hours of Bob takes its toll...
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 14:39:05 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: RE: Traveller Find
Dear Folks -
Peter penned:
>Rob wrote:
>> > I don't know about the Aslan ships (mine also came in a box),
>>
>> hrm...ship in a box...i'm sure there is probably a market for that
>> somewhere
>
>Oh great! Now I have an image stuck in my head of a 3000 dton
>cardboard box!
So, what are the High Guard stats for that?
- - Hyphen
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 21:24:05 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net>
Subject: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
Here's screen grabs of the relevant sections from the trailer that I
mentioned:
http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/holo_controls.htm
In the sickbay shot the device she's manipulating moves to her
ministrations, and the other two have active displays.
Best,
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Jesse Degraff
> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 3:34 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: RE: Starship bridge artwork....
>
>
> <Mel Gibson>
> Whoops...
> </Mel Gibson>
>
> Sorry about that Jens :( I'll see if I can grab some stills or find some
> stills of it for the "browser impaired" folks <duck, run, cover>
>
> Best,
> Jesse
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> > [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Jens Rydholm
> > Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 3:25 PM
> > To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> > Subject: Re: Starship bridge artwork....
> >
> >
> > Jesse Degraff wrote:
> > > Sorry, I was referring to the her using the hardware in the
> > TRAILER. Go to
> > > the Clips section and watch the trailer.
> >
> > Which in turn requires QuickTime. Going to the download page for
> > the QuickTime
> > plugin, I see versions for Windows and Mac, but not Unix.
> >
> > *sound of fumes coming out of my nose and ears*
> >
> > Ah well, I'll have to check it the next time I run Windows.
> >
> > * Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
> > | jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
> > | ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
> > * http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 15:03:19 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Traveller Find
Dear Folks -
Mikko wrote:
>> > I don't know about the Aslan ships (mine also came in a box),
>> hrm...ship in a box...i'm sure there is probably a market for that
>> somewhere
>
>Aslan ship in a box?
>
>Isn't there some uncertainty if the ship is blown-up or not? Or maybe both
>at the same time, if no one else has a sensor lock on it?
Yes, you are remembering the old Aslan Border War problem,
"Schroodiingeer's Aslan"...
(ducks and runs for cover...)
- - Hyphen
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 20:27:09 +1200
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: Traveller Find
William Lane wrote :
> > > Oh great! Now I have an image stuck in my head of a 3000 dton
> > > cardboard box!
> >
> > Can you imagine how thick the caredbroard is?
> >
> Better yet can you imagine the look on the poor Fed-Ex guys face when he
> arrives to pick it up.
>
> Fed-Ex guy arrives at building walks down wall to person standing there
>
> "Where is the package im here to pick up"
>
> "Your standing next to it"
Schoolmaster looks up at boy with welding equipment hanging sevral meter ups
the side of a large steel ship.
"So, Brown, you're building a working, full scale model of an Icelandic
trawler?"
"Yes, sir"
"Brown, if it's full scale and working, it's not really a model is it ?"
"Er, no, sir"
"Then get rid of it."
(or words to that effect, from the "Ripping Yarns" episode "Tom Brown's
Schooldays")
Frankie
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 09:22 +0100 (BST)
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
Subject: RE: Starship bridge artwork....
In-Reply-To: <PIEFIHNLNBEMHOILBEBPGEGOCJAA.jedegraf@cisco.com>
Greetings dear hearts.
I reckon Flash is well-named - all flash and no substance!
Not sure I have yet seen an instance of its use where removing it made no
difference. Hate it. And I'm in the web trade :-)
Hugs and kisses,
Mexal.
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
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From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)
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Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3826
Date: | 3/27/01 10:45:08 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Tuesday, March 27 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3826
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
Re: Traveller Find
RE: Traveller Find
Re: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
Re: Traveller Find
Re: Starship bridge artwork....
Re: Starship bridge artwork....
RE: Starship bridge artwork....
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3823
Re: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
Re: Traveller Find
TNE Mailing List Down?
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3823
Re: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
This may seem like a strange question, but....
RE: Traveller Find
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
RE: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
RE: Traveller, Chemistry
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
Re: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
Re: Traveller Find
RE: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 09:22 +0100 (BST)
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
Subject: Re: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
In-Reply-To: <NEBBLEAMMLIFAFCNNAFOEEGHDFAA.jdegraff@pacbell.net>
Greetings dear hearts.
Interesting shots - unlike Star Trek LCARS, these seem to be
three-dimensional. Nice :-)
Hugs and kisses,
Mexal.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 03:29:03 -0500
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Find
> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 20:24:19 +0300 (EET DST)
> From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
> Subject: Re: Traveller Find
<snip>
> Aslan ship in a box?
>
> Isn't there some uncertainty if the ship is blown-up or not? Or maybe both
> at the same time, if no one else has a sensor lock on it?
I'd like keyboard kills for a hundred Alex.
David Shayne
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 09:36 +0100 (BST)
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
Subject: RE: Traveller Find
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEMPFOAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Greetings dear hearts.
Nice story about the 'model' trawler... reminds me of the time in
chemistry lab class.
Teacher: "What's in that glassware bubbling away in the corner?"
Mexal: "Erm, just, er, nitrating some di-nitro-toluene*."
Teacher: [Pause for thought] "Get rid of it NOW. But carefully."
And that one's a true story. The teacher kept telling us how to make the
stuff, so one day I did :-)
Hugs and kisses,
Mexal.
*Which, for the non-chemically inclined, makes tri-nitro-toluene, known as
TNT. Or if you prefer modern terminology, 2-4-6-tri-nitro-methyl-benzene.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 10:58:23 +0200
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
Jesse DeGraff wrote:
> Here's screen grabs of the relevant sections from the trailer that I
> mentioned:
> http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/holo_controls.htm
>
> In the sickbay shot the device she's manipulating moves to her
> ministrations, and the other two have active displays.
Thanks a lot!
Lovely pictures as well. And lovely technology. *drool*
Can I have one of those?
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:16:42 +0200
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Traveller Find
david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:
> >Oh great! Now I have an image stuck in my head of a 3000 dton
> >cardboard box!
>
> So, what are the High Guard stats for that?
I don't have High Guard, but I do have FF&S2:
3000 dt medium box, unstreamlined, rated for 1G
Dimensions: 55,1 x 27,6 x 27,6 m
Remaining volume: 38151 m^3
Surface area: 7596 m^2
Mass: 384.9 tons
Price: 0,15396 MCr
(assuming that cardboard has a toughness of 0.01, a density of 0.1, and a price
of 0.0001)
A lot of space (3830 m^3) is taken up by internal structure. Seems about right
if the box needs to be able to stand there empty, but not if it is filled with a
ship. I have included the internal structure, since it can be handwaved that the
box should probably be thicker than 0.25 cm anyway.
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 15:29:26 +0300 (EET DST)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: Re: Starship bridge artwork....
On Mon, 26 Mar 2001, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> > On Monday, March 26, 2001 1:23 PM
> > Jens Rydholm said,
> > > I really HATE Flash! As a matter of fact, I hate using unneccessary
> > solutions
> Oh god I thought I was the only one. I so so so SO loathe flash.
My solution right now is to use this HP-UX.
No Flash player, so no Flash... B-)
(I have never found something useful on a Flash site...)
- --
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 15:30:46 +0300 (EET DST)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: Re: Starship bridge artwork....
On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, Jens Rydholm wrote:
> Jesse Degraff wrote:
> > Sorry, I was referring to the her using the hardware in the TRAILER. Go to
> > the Clips section and watch the trailer.
> Which in turn requires QuickTime. Going to the download page for the QuickTime
> plugin, I see versions for Windows and Mac, but not Unix.
Well, usually there are versions for some unixen, but not all.
- --
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 15:12:11 +0100
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Starship bridge artwork....
> On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, Jens Rydholm wrote:
> > Jesse Degraff wrote:
> > > Sorry, I was referring to the her using the hardware in
> the TRAILER. Go to
> > > the Clips section and watch the trailer.
> > Which in turn requires QuickTime. Going to the download
> page for the QuickTime
> > plugin, I see versions for Windows and Mac, but not Unix.
>
> Well, usually there are versions for some unixen, but not all.
Is that the plural of Unix? I thought it was either Unices or when refering
to the hardware Unix Boxen :)
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 08:17:54 -0600
From: "Donavan L." <dlambertus@dtgnet.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3823
>Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 09:08:35 -0800
>From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
>Subject: Joining Trav3D...
>
>I don't have the mailing list address here at work (and I was gone all
>weekend) so I'll have to get it to you from there unless the list Mom sees
>it ;) (You out there dude?)
No problem, whenever you get a chance.
>1.Contributors! Folks who want to build stuff or illustrate stuff to share
>with the Traveller 3D community, and the general Traveller community at
>large. And it's not just limited to 3D. 2D stuff is cool too! This could
>include deckplan symbols (competition for the best set maybe? ;), deckplans
>of ships, floorplans of buildings, alternate textures for public domain
>Traveller models (I may be releasing all of mine, or at least some of them,
>in the near future), world maps for texturing planets, or whatever else you
>can think of resource-wise.
I'd be more than happy to contribute whatever I come up with to the cause.
In addition to the commerce raider, I've also been tinkering with one of the
boarding craft (mostly to understand textures and the way my software
handles them). Interested parties can see a shot of my latest work at
http://lightning.prohosting.com/~navanod/traveller/ship1.jpg
The model still needs a fair amount of work itself, but the textures (nods
to Jesse's tutorial) are coming along nicely in my opinion. This is about
10 times better than anything I've done previously.
>2.Webmaster. Downport.com has graciously offered to host the site (and had
>a link to the mock-up for awhile, but dropped it when we stalled ;) While
>my own site, Vision Forge Graphics, has unlimited space and (reasonably)
>unlimited traffic restrictions, I don't really have the time to act as
>webmaster for Trav3D. Also, I'm not the best coder in the world ;) In
>fact, I CAN'T code to save my life. I still use M$ Front Page to do my
>website <GASP!!! The horror!!!>.
Hehe...so, I'm not the only one doing it that way still, eh? Thats good to
know. But, if nobody else can or wants to, I'll volunteer. It won't be a
"dazzling multimedia experience", but should be functional.
>3.INTEREST! Rhyms with Contributors to start with. Folks that join and
are
>interested need to follow through. We let ourselves stall when it was
first
>founded. I don't wanna' let that happen again. Continuing interest from
>the community at large would keep the site alive, and maybe help foster the
>continuing growth in the 3D and technical illustration of the Traveller
>universe. Maybe we can get some more people hooked on these fun mediums ;)
>I've already got a couple of spare-time kills (i.e. someone started doing
3D
>stuff) to my credit >:)
Well, I'm interested, here and ready to go, and that will probably only
increase in the future (i.e. projected upgrade of rendering software). And
you can add me to your list of "spare-time" kills - I was just dinking
around to begin with, but it's developing into obsessive/compulsive
behavior.
>Jesse
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 06:23:15 -0800
From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
At 09:24 PM 03/26/01 -0800, you wrote:
>Here's screen grabs of the relevant sections from the trailer that I
>mentioned:
>http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/holo_controls.htm
Nice! This is how I've always pictured holographic interfaces looking.
- --
Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is that I am now a
perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague here is rapidly running out of
limbs!" - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 06:25:27 -0800
From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Find
At 11:16 AM 03/27/01 +0200, you wrote:
>> >Oh great! Now I have an image stuck in my head of a 3000 dton
>> >cardboard box!
>>
>> So, what are the High Guard stats for that?
>
>I don't have High Guard, but I do have FF&S2:
>
>3000 dt medium box, unstreamlined, rated for 1G
>Dimensions: 55,1 x 27,6 x 27,6 m
>Remaining volume: 38151 m^3
>Surface area: 7596 m^2
Packing tape. I need lots of packing tape.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 18:28:52 +0100
From: "Peter Scarrott" <peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: TNE Mailing List Down?
Does anyone know the status of the Traveller TNE mailing list? I have not
received any mail from it since 2 March and none of my test mails have
appeared either. I have tried resubscribing and still no answer (not even
an 'unable to deliver' message).
Anyone with any ideas?
Peter
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk (Trav & AD&D)
peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
IMTU: tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
And life is harsh and rarely fair.
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the
shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser
gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to
die."
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 09:17:06 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3823
> I'd be more than happy to contribute whatever I come up with to the cause.
> In addition to the commerce raider, I've also been tinkering with
> one of the
> boarding craft (mostly to understand textures and the way my software
> handles them). Interested parties can see a shot of my latest work at
>
> http://lightning.prohosting.com/~navanod/traveller/ship1.jpg
>
> The model still needs a fair amount of work itself, but the textures (nods
> to Jesse's tutorial) are coming along nicely in my opinion. This is about
> 10 times better than anything I've done previously.
Looking good! Extra bonus points for a visible (if un-populated) cockpit!!
(Are you listening Rachel? ;)
> Hehe...so, I'm not the only one doing it that way still, eh?
> Thats good to
> know.
Nope, not the only one! It's how I originally started playing with the
'net, and I haven't had the time or, quite frankly, the INTEREST to learn
how to code at the level I want my pages to show.
>But, if nobody else can or wants to, I'll volunteer. It won't be a
> "dazzling multimedia experience", but should be functional.
As envisioned, it doesn't require a "dazzling multimedia experience", just
an attractive interface. I think I've got that bit covered...
> Well, I'm interested, here and ready to go, and that will probably only
> increase in the future (i.e. projected upgrade of rendering
> software). And
> you can add me to your list of "spare-time" kills - I was just dinking
> around to begin with, but it's developing into obsessive/compulsive
> behavior.
>
> >Jesse
Cool, glad to hear you're interested. More info as I can find it ;)
Jesse
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 09:39:56 -0800
From: "Thing" <thingunderthestairs@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
On Tuesday, March 27, 2001 6:23 AM
Douglas Berry said,
> Nice! This is how I've always pictured holographic interfaces looking.
I always thought a good example was the shuttle controls in "Earth Final
Conflict". Of course I sometimes think that I am the only person that stuck
it out and liked the show.
G.D.D.
ThingUnderTheStairs
Minion of SheChemist and GothBunny
Grand Master of the Electron Flow
===========================
"Writing is not necessarily something to be ashamed of, but do it in private
and wash your hands afterwards." -Robert Heinlein
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 12:40:30 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: This may seem like a strange question, but....
Are there any GURPS rules for using fire extiguishers as makeshift weapons?
I'm finishing off an article for submission for JTAS, and circumstances
dictate that I need to address this. (Don't ask. <g>)
Failing anything already in existence, if someone with expertise in GURPS
weaponry feels like discussing this challenge off-list, please e-mail me.
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 09:17:05 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: Traveller Find
BAD Mexal! No cookie. ;) My chemistry teacher in high school was in
Berzerkley...er, Berkley, in the 60's and all KINDS of wonderful stories....
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Megan Robertson
> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 12:36 AM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Cc: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk
> Subject: RE: Traveller Find
>
>
> In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEMPFOAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
> Greetings dear hearts.
>
> Nice story about the 'model' trawler... reminds me of the time in
> chemistry lab class.
>
> Teacher: "What's in that glassware bubbling away in the corner?"
>
> Mexal: "Erm, just, er, nitrating some di-nitro-toluene*."
>
> Teacher: [Pause for thought] "Get rid of it NOW. But carefully."
>
> And that one's a true story. The teacher kept telling us how to make the
> stuff, so one day I did :-)
>
> Hugs and kisses,
>
> Mexal.
>
> *Which, for the non-chemically inclined, makes tri-nitro-toluene,
> known as
> TNT. Or if you prefer modern terminology, 2-4-6-tri-nitro-methyl-benzene.
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 08:36:59 -0600
From: "Donavan L." <dlambertus@dtgnet.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
>Jesse DeGraff
>Subject: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
>Here's screen grabs of the relevant sections from the trailer that I
>mentioned:
>http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/holo_controls.htm
Pretty cool. I was actually thinking about something along those lines, but
for a bridge station, the controls would float around the user. Hmmm...I'll
have to try to work up a pic when I get a chance. Which leads me to another
question - would bridges be totally reliant on holo controls, or would they
have "manual" backups?
>In the sickbay shot the device she's manipulating moves to her
>ministrations, and the other two have active displays.
>Best,
>Jesse
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 09:57:06 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
I haven't ever really seen that show...
Hey Thing, do you have any web references that shows the controls, or do I
have to go web-swimmin'?
Thx,
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Thing
> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 9:40 AM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
>
>
> On Tuesday, March 27, 2001 6:23 AM
> Douglas Berry said,
>
> > Nice! This is how I've always pictured holographic interfaces looking.
>
> I always thought a good example was the shuttle controls in "Earth Final
> Conflict". Of course I sometimes think that I am the only person
> that stuck
> it out and liked the show.
>
> G.D.D.
> ThingUnderTheStairs
> Minion of SheChemist and GothBunny
> Grand Master of the Electron Flow
> ===========================
> "Writing is not necessarily something to be ashamed of, but do it
> in private
> and wash your hands afterwards." -Robert Heinlein
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 09:56:43 -0800 (PST)
From: John Fox <jfox@verity.com>
Subject: RE: Traveller, Chemistry
Hello Everyone:
Boy does that bring back memories.
Made tri sodium iodide in lab and tested it. (contact explosive)
Made nitrated glycerin (nitro glycerin) and tested it.
Made TNT and tested.
Flooded a lab with bromine gas.
Launched more than one thermometer across the lab.
Accidently made phosgen and released in the lab (talk about clearing a lab out
fast).
Had a chance to modify an opium derivative to get morphine or herion (passed
on that one).
Had access to compound that was two steps away from cocaine (passed on that
one also).
Used con sulferic acid to clean up plogged sink drain (cleaned it up real
good, drain pipe got real hot!)
I want even talk about the radioactive chem experiments I did.
John W. Fox
>
> BAD Mexal! No cookie. ;) My chemistry teacher in high school was in
> Berzerkley...er, Berkley, in the 60's and all KINDS of wonderful stories....
>
> Jesse
>
> > Greetings dear hearts.
> >
> > Nice story about the 'model' trawler... reminds me of the time in
> > chemistry lab class.
> >
> > Teacher: "What's in that glassware bubbling away in the corner?"
> >
> > Mexal: "Erm, just, er, nitrating some di-nitro-toluene*."
> >
> > Teacher: [Pause for thought] "Get rid of it NOW. But carefully."
> >
> > And that one's a true story. The teacher kept telling us how to make the
> > stuff, so one day I did :-)
> >
> > Hugs and kisses,
> >
> > Mexal.
> >
> > *Which, for the non-chemically inclined, makes tri-nitro-toluene,
> > known as
> > TNT. Or if you prefer modern terminology, 2-4-6-tri-nitro-methyl-benzene.
> >
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 10:03:44 -0800
From: William Lane <wlane@Asera.com>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
<snip>
>Which leads me to another
>question - would bridges be totally reliant on holo controls, or would they
>have "manual" backups?
Well if i adopted Holographic controls in my universe you can bet your tushy
that the ships would have manual back ups. what happens if the holographic
system where to be taken out in a fight. at least with manual back ups you
can do it the hard way but stillg et it done 8P
Of course this is personal opinion. Nasa would like me i dont think you cant
ahve enough back ups 8P
Hasta
Bill
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 10:16:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
William Lane writes:
> Well if i adopted Holographic controls in my universe you can bet your
> tushy that the ships would have manual back ups. what happens if the
> holographic system where to be taken out in a fight. at least with manual
> back ups you can do it the hard way but stillg et it done 8P
Actually, almost certainly you can't; an awful lot of problems for ships simply
aren't suited to non-automated solutions. Assuming holographics are as
reliable as chips and screens, there's really no good reason to have a
different type of backup, most likely a backup system is just another
holosystem.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 10:21:58 -0800
From: "Thing" <thingunderthestairs@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
On Tuesday, March 27, 2001 9:57 AM
Jesse Degraff said,
> Hey Thing, do you have any web references that shows the controls, or do I
> have to go web-swimmin'?
I'm pretty sure I have a quicktime at home of Lili starting the interface
and controls, but nothing here at work. I'll poke around on some of my
links tho.
If you would like I will check for the quicktime file when I get home and
mail it to you off list.
G.D.D.
ThingUnderTheStairs
Minion of SheChemist and GothBunny
Grand Master of the Electron Flow
===========================
"We are here to drink beer ... and [to] live our lives so well that Death
will tremble to take us." -Charles Bukowski
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 23:44:23 +0800
From: Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Find
Hi all!
Douglas Berry wrote:
>
> Packing tape. I need lots of packing tape.
And styrofoam peanuts! They must give a bit of radiation shielding,
anyway.
Wow, is my life devoid of meaning?
- -- Rachel
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 10:42:05 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
Yeah, I'd appreciate that. You can send it to my home e-mail (and work, if
you've got the bandwidth ;) of jdegraff@pacbell.net
Thanks again!
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Thing
> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 10:22 AM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
>
>
> On Tuesday, March 27, 2001 9:57 AM
> Jesse Degraff said,
>
> > Hey Thing, do you have any web references that shows the
> controls, or do I
> > have to go web-swimmin'?
>
> I'm pretty sure I have a quicktime at home of Lili starting the interface
> and controls, but nothing here at work. I'll poke around on some of my
> links tho.
>
> If you would like I will check for the quicktime file when I get home and
> mail it to you off list.
>
> G.D.D.
> ThingUnderTheStairs
> Minion of SheChemist and GothBunny
> Grand Master of the Electron Flow
> ===========================
> "We are here to drink beer ... and [to] live our lives so well that Death
> will tremble to take us." -Charles Bukowski
>
>
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3826
***********************************
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From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)
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Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3826
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3827
Date: | 3/27/01 4:12:19 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Tuesday, March 27 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3827
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
RE: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
Re: This may seem like a strange question, but....
Re: Traveller Find
RE: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
RE: Traveller, Chemistry
RE: Traveller Find
RE: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
RE: Traveller, Chemistry
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
Re: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
RE: (Fwd) Re: Decompressing Ships
Re: Starship bridge artwork....
Re: Traveller Find
RE: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
RE: N.E. for Rachel was RE: Intro, etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 10:48:21 -0800
From: "Thing" <thingunderthestairs@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
On Tuesday, March 27, 2001 10:42 AM
Jesse Degraff said,
> Yeah, I'd appreciate that. You can send it to my home e-mail (and work,
if
> you've got the bandwidth ;) of jdegraff@pacbell.net
Not a problem. It might take me a while to find it, it's on one of my
backup multimedia CD's. just gotta search through a ton of porn and such.
G.D.D.
ThingUnderTheStairs
Minion of SheChemist and GothBunny
Grand Master of the Electron Flow
===========================
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the
subject." -Winston Churchill
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 10:54:58 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
LOL!!! Okay, I'll be waiting with baited breath!
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Thing
> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 10:48 AM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
>
>
> On Tuesday, March 27, 2001 10:42 AM
> Jesse Degraff said,
>
> > Yeah, I'd appreciate that. You can send it to my home e-mail (and work,
> if
> > you've got the bandwidth ;) of jdegraff@pacbell.net
>
> Not a problem. It might take me a while to find it, it's on one of my
> backup multimedia CD's. just gotta search through a ton of porn and such.
>
> G.D.D.
> ThingUnderTheStairs
> Minion of SheChemist and GothBunny
> Grand Master of the Electron Flow
> ===========================
> "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the
> subject." -Winston Churchill
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:02:29 -0800
From: William Lane <wlane@Asera.com>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
> Actually, almost certainly you can't; an awful lot of
> problems for ships simply
> aren't suited to non-automated solutions. Assuming
> holographics are as
hmmmm By your logic. there is no reason for a 757's to have the basic flight
insterments. they should all be just a computer screen back up of the
current computer screen. yet this is not the case. if they lose the
computers they can still put the plane on the ground.
Also why would a non automated process not be able to be done. are the
piloting skills of the futures pilots so deteriated due to use of automated
system that they cant pilot their ships anymore? is it impossable for the
pilot to take a star sighting and calculate their position? impossable for
the bridge to coordinate with engineering via comm system? impossible for
damage control to do their job with out automation?
These ships do have some measure of automation but they are not totally
automated. if they were there would be no need for crew. outside of say a
pilot or captain to give the ship orders.
> reliable as chips and screens, there's really no good reason
> to have a
You assume. currently they have fully digital cockpits on the comercial
airliners. However for some odd reason they still maintains airspeed, turn
and bank, altitude and attidtude indicators. the exact same type of
instermantation that has been in use for 70 years or more.
> different type of backup, most likely a backup system is just another
> holosystem.
Umm why? there is no reason that you cant have a back up system that
provides the same abilities as your holographic system that is manually
operated. if the ship where forced to go to 2rd back up computer, (all ships
in my campains have 3 computers. a primary and 2 back ups) it could be
assumed that the ship is in dire trouble and they could force the crew to do
things manually.
Why would switching SCE to Aux have to be a computer controled automated
function alone. it would seem that if needed in an emergancy said crewman
should be able to walk over to a a panel and flip SCE to Aux if absolutly
needed.
the only difference between the holographic system and the manual system is
that it will allow the user faster reaction times.
But there is no reason that the ship cant have an emergancy back up that is
not Holographic. infact it would seem to me that it would be prudent.
i could easly see a ship where they have consoles that are dark while they
use the Holographic system. then something bad happens. and now they are
forced to use a LCARs type system.
Maybe im the only one who sees it.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:09:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
William Lane writes:
> hmmmm By your logic. there is no reason for a 757's to have the basic
> flight insterments. they should all be just a computer screen back up of
> the current computer screen. yet this is not the case. if they lose the
> computers they can still put the plane on the ground.
They can? A lot of modern military aircraft can't.
>
> Also why would a non automated process not be able to be done. are the
> piloting skills of the futures pilots so deteriated due to use of automated
> system that they cant pilot their ships anymore? is it impossable for the
> pilot to take a star sighting and calculate their position? impossable for
> the bridge to coordinate with engineering via comm system? impossible for
> damage control to do their job with out automation?
Roughly speaking, no, yes, irrelevant (the comm system is computerized, and
you can't use radio), and maybe (depends what you're fixing).
> Umm why? there is no reason that you cant have a back up system that
> provides the same abilities as your holographic system that is manually
> operated. if the ship where forced to go to 2rd back up computer, (all
> ships in my campains have 3 computers. a primary and 2 back ups) it could
> be assumed that the ship is in dire trouble and they could force the crew to
> do things manually.
Actually, depending on what the controls have to do, its quite possible that
you can't have a 'manually operated' control system, whatever that means.
> But there is no reason that the ship cant have an emergancy back up that is
> not Holographic. infact it would seem to me that it would be prudent.
Only if you assume that holographic systems are unreliable. For many systems,
there's just no point to a bulky alternate backup system.
>
> i could easly see a ship where they have consoles that are dark while they
> use the Holographic system. then something bad happens. and now they are
> forced to use a LCARs type system.
Big waste of space there.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:16:51 -0800
From: sneadj@mindspring.com
Subject: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
"Donavan L." <dlambertus@dtgnet.com> wrote:
> >Jesse DeGraff wrote
>
> >Here's screen grabs of the relevant sections from the trailer that I
> >mentioned:
> >http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/holo_controls.ht
> >m
>
> Pretty cool. I was actually thinking about something along those
> lines, but for a bridge station, the controls would float around the
> user. Hmmm...I'll have to try to work up a pic when I get a chance.
> Which leads me to another question - would bridges be totally reliant
> on holo controls, or would they have "manual" backups?
While those controls look *way* cool, I'm not certain how practical
they would be. If the controls are just lights in air, w/o any tactile
component, they seem like they would be either safe or easy to
use. If you controls have both a visual and a tactile presence, then
the user has two senses to rely upon. If he controls are merely
images in the air, then I'd worry that users would on an
unconscious level not treat them as real, which could prove deadly
in a crisis.
I had previously assumed that holodynamic controls were some
form of smart material that could reconfigure in 3-D (levers and
buttons pop up, and are overlaid with holographic labels).
OTOH, I love the sort of controls depicted in the images (and in
shows like "Earth Final Conflict") better. Perhaps, holodynamic
controls *do* include a tactile component - maybe the controls
include tiny grav projectors to create resistance and make all those
cool controls floating in mid air feel more real.
Comments?
Btw, what movie are those screenshots from?
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:20:50 -0800
From: William Lane <wlane@Asera.com>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
> They can? A lot of modern military aircraft can't.
> >
Yes they can. and yes they do. big difference between civilian and military
aircraft.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:25:04 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: This may seem like a strange question, but....
At 12:40 PM -0500 3/27/01, Paul Drye wrote:
>Are there any GURPS rules for using fire extiguishers as makeshift
>weapons? I'm finishing off an article for submission for JTAS, and
>circumstances dictate that I need to address this. (Don't ask. <g>)
Nothing direct. I suspect that the skill would fall under Guns,
flamethrower (the GURPS skill for hosing a liquid at a foe whether
you want to burn them, freeze them, or distract them). Most PC will
be using it as a default.
I don't know if you can get weapon stats for such weapons from
Vehicles II. If not, you would take a flamethrower and drop the acc
& range and raise the SS to account for poorer aiming. I'm guessing
they would do no damage.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net. My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 10:25:16 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Find
Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote
> >> >Oh great! Now I have an image stuck in my head of a 3000 dton
> >> >cardboard box!
> >> So, what are the High Guard stats for that?
> >I don't have High Guard, but I do have FF&S2:
> >3000 dt medium box, unstreamlined, rated for 1G
> >Dimensions: 55,1 x 27,6 x 27,6 m
> >Remaining volume: 38151 m^3
> >Surface area: 7596 m^2
> Packing tape. I need lots of packing tape.
Does anyone have stats for packing tape for any version of Traveller,
canonical or otherwise?
If this were Champions I could build a roll of packing tape by
creating an Entangle with 0 END persistent one use charges, and a
limitation about applying them, from a battery but I'm not sure about
GURPS rules for packing tape.
- --
Did you ever wonder if Lassie had Munchausen by Proxy?
Timmy sure seemed to fall down a lot of wells.
Peter Newman pnewman@gci.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:29:07 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
They're from the upcoming Final Fantasy movie.
I'd always assumed (you know what they say about assuming ;) that there was
some kind of tactile feedback. Otherwise, you're just wiggling fingers in
air, and it would be VERY hard to know what you were pushing, pressing,
turning, or activating (or IN-activating....Ooops, I just turned of the jump
drive while in jump....BOOM)
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of
> sneadj@mindspring.com
> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 11:17 AM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
>
>
> "Donavan L." <dlambertus@dtgnet.com> wrote:
>
> > >Jesse DeGraff wrote
> >
> > >Here's screen grabs of the relevant sections from the trailer that I
> > >mentioned:
> > >http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/holo_controls.ht
> > >m
> >
> > Pretty cool. I was actually thinking about something along those
> > lines, but for a bridge station, the controls would float around the
> > user. Hmmm...I'll have to try to work up a pic when I get a chance.
> > Which leads me to another question - would bridges be totally reliant
> > on holo controls, or would they have "manual" backups?
>
> While those controls look *way* cool, I'm not certain how practical
> they would be. If the controls are just lights in air, w/o any tactile
> component, they seem like they would be either safe or easy to
> use. If you controls have both a visual and a tactile presence, then
> the user has two senses to rely upon. If he controls are merely
> images in the air, then I'd worry that users would on an
> unconscious level not treat them as real, which could prove deadly
> in a crisis.
>
> I had previously assumed that holodynamic controls were some
> form of smart material that could reconfigure in 3-D (levers and
> buttons pop up, and are overlaid with holographic labels).
>
> OTOH, I love the sort of controls depicted in the images (and in
> shows like "Earth Final Conflict") better. Perhaps, holodynamic
> controls *do* include a tactile component - maybe the controls
> include tiny grav projectors to create resistance and make all those
> cool controls floating in mid air feel more real.
>
> Comments?
>
> Btw, what movie are those screenshots from?
>
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:34:26 -0800 (PST)
From: John Fox <jfox@verity.com>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
Hello everyone:
There are several military aicraft that if they loose the computer(s) they can
not fly properly. The estimates for the F-16 is that if it looses the flight
computer (and backups) the mean life of the plane is roughly 1 to 3 seconds
before the pilot looses complete control and the plane tears itself apart due to
rather violent manuevers.
Most of the present military planes have some flight controls that are manual
back up, not all of them.
John W. Fox
>
> > They can? A lot of modern military aircraft can't.
> > >
>
> Yes they can. and yes they do. big difference between civilian and military
> aircraft.
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 21:37 +0100 (BST)
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
Subject: RE: Traveller, Chemistry
In-Reply-To: <200103271756.JAA08781@mainsheet.verity.com>
Greetings dear hearts.
Ho, yes.
Did the nitrogen tri-iodide trick (that's another contact explosive) -
that chemistry teacher used to walk up and down when lecturing on a fairly
predictable track... :-)
Now there were 7 in that class. Six sat in a row at the front in the
teaching area by the chalk board, and I sat on the row behind by myself.
We came to the next class, and my 6 colleagues sat down and stood up
sharpish. Guess where the teacher had put some nitrogen tri-iodide.
But she forgot my chair :-)
Hugs and kisses,
Mexal.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 21:37 +0100 (BST)
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
Subject: RE: Traveller Find
In-Reply-To: <PIEFIHNLNBEMHOILBEBPMEHJCJAA.jedegraf@cisco.com>
Greetings dear hearts.
Jesse wrote: "BAD Mexal! No cookie. ;)"
Aaaawwww, Jesse. Don't be cross with me...
Hugs and kisses,
Mexal.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 21:37 +0100 (BST)
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
Subject: RE: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
In-Reply-To: <PIEFIHNLNBEMHOILBEBPCEHPCJAA.jedegraf@cisco.com>
Greetings dear hearts.
Jesse wrote "I'd always assumed (you know what they say about assuming ;)
that there was some kind of tactile feedback. Otherwise, you're just
wiggling fingers in air, and it would be VERY hard to know what you were
pushing, pressing, turning, or activating (or IN-activating....Ooops, I
just turned of the jump drive while in jump....BOOM)"
And what about those folk without stereoscopic vision or other reliable
close-in depth perception? They'd have fun...
Hugs and kisses,
Mexal.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 13:00:23 -0800 (PST)
From: John Fox <jfox@verity.com>
Subject: RE: Traveller, Chemistry
Mexal:
Was working with the contact explosive, thinking of putting into key locks
with needle then watching as key blew out. Then read where some one did this and
used his palm to force the key in and ended up with the key embeded through the
palm. Decided against it.
We did take some p-diclorobenzene (mouthballs) crush them up, use a dust pan
and shoved them under a door. You could smell it for several doors down the
hall next day.
Mistakely put to much contact explosive on door jam once. (apply when wet).
Person went to shut door the next day and ended up with a door in his face (not
hurt except for ego).
Got ahold of some crystal violet (really neat PURPLE colored dye) and put it
on the black seats of the bathroom. Everyone had purple toilet seat shaped
stains on their butts for about a week.
Some more thoughts for fun.
John W. Fox
>
> In-Reply-To: <200103271756.JAA08781@mainsheet.verity.com>
> Greetings dear hearts.
>
> Ho, yes.
>
> Did the nitrogen tri-iodide trick (that's another contact explosive) -
> that chemistry teacher used to walk up and down when lecturing on a fairly
> predictable track... :-)
>
> Now there were 7 in that class. Six sat in a row at the front in the
> teaching area by the chalk board, and I sat on the row behind by myself.
>
> We came to the next class, and my 6 colleagues sat down and stood up
> sharpish. Guess where the teacher had put some nitrogen tri-iodide.
>
> But she forgot my chair :-)
>
> Hugs and kisses,
>
> Mexal.
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 08:20:15 +1000
From: "Jeffrey Malone" <nparker1971@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
Believe that the correct term for this is a 'dynamically unstable airframe'
(anybody in the aerospace game know the right answer?). Prime example of
this is the F-117. In essence, in order to achieve its low observable
signature airframe, it has to sacrifice airframe stability. It is literally
not humanly possible to fly the aircraft in the absence of computer
assistance.
J.M.M.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: John Fox <jfox@verity.com>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 5:34 AM
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
> Hello everyone:
> There are several military aicraft that if they loose the computer(s)
they can
> not fly properly. The estimates for the F-16 is that if it looses the
flight
> computer (and backups) the mean life of the plane is roughly 1 to 3
seconds
> before the pilot looses complete control and the plane tears itself apart
due to
> rather violent manuevers.
> Most of the present military planes have some flight controls that are
manual
> back up, not all of them.
>
> John W. Fox
>
> >
> > > They can? A lot of modern military aircraft can't.
> > > >
> >
> > Yes they can. and yes they do. big difference between civilian and
military
> > aircraft.
> >
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 17:44:37 -0500
From: Eric Freitas <efreitos@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
Jesse,
What are these screengrabs from? What movie is depicted in the
pictures?
Thanks,
Eric
On Tuesday 27 March 2001 00:24, you wrote:
> Here's screen grabs of the relevant sections from the trailer that I
> mentioned:
> http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/holo_controls.htm
>
> In the sickbay shot the device she's manipulating moves to her
> ministrations, and the other two have active displays.
>
> Best,
> Jesse
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 17:33:55 +0100
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: (Fwd) Re: Decompressing Ships
Rob Davenport wrote:
> On 23 Mar 2001, at 11:01, Niko Mikkanen wrote:
> > "Trevor, Peter" wrote:
> > > Press Release
> >
> > Sorry, old news. I came up with this years ago.
>
> Me too. And a buddy of mine claimed to have thought of it when I told
> him *my* idea.
>
> Don't you just hate that? :)
What gets me is how often it happens:
- - I remember my first Traveller campaign. I invented a new noble
rank between Sector Duke and Emperor called a "Grand Duke". I
had Grand Duke Zander von Wilemhorst of the Spinward Peninsula.
Then GDW comes out with Archdukes and Domains.
- - I remember spending hours at the university library, pouring
over astronomy texts with pen, paper, and pocket calculator (I
didn't have a computer in those days) trying to create a
realistic 3d star list for a non-canon campaign I was working
on. Then GDW brings out Traveller:2300 (later called 2300AD).
- - My first campaign soon featured a PC who was an experimental
life-like android ... and DGP gave up AB-101. (Okay, that
one's an SF cliche so I should have expected that.)
etc, etc, etc ...
Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:50:00 -0500
From: Gordon Hundley <drgoon@netaxs.com>
Subject: Re: Starship bridge artwork....
On Monday, March 26, 2001, at 06:24 PM, Jens Rydholm wrote:
> Jesse Degraff wrote:
>> Sorry, I was referring to the her using the hardware in the TRAILER.
>> Go to
>> the Clips section and watch the trailer.
>
> Which in turn requires QuickTime. Going to the download page for the
> QuickTime
> plugin, I see versions for Windows and Mac, but not Unix.
<Pedant>
Well, I'm running the Unix native version here. What you don't see is a
version for a Unix not built by Apple that uses X11 for its display
management. Which _is_ annoying.
</Pedant>
Gordon.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 18:51:39 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Find
On Mon, 26 Mar 2001 16:49:41 -0500 (EST), "Mikko V. I. Parviainen"
<mvparvia@cc.hut.fi> wrote:
>On Mon, 26 Mar 2001, Rob wrote:
>> > I don't know about the Aslan ships (mine also came in a box),
>> hrm...ship in a box...i'm sure there is probably a market for that
>> somewhere
>Aslan ship in a box?
>Isn't there some uncertainty if the ship is blown-up or not? Or maybe both
>at the same time, if no one else has a sensor lock on it?
Ummm... I don't think so - but only because I can't mangle "Schrödinger"
into Trokh.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
(ILink: news without the abuse. Ask via email.)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 16:08:59 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
Already answered that, but I'll do it again for those that came in late ;)
It's from the upcoming Final Fantasy movie. Hits U.S. Theaters July 13th.
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Eric Freitas
> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 2:45 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
>
>
> Jesse,
> What are these screengrabs from? What movie is depicted in the
> pictures?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Eric
>
> On Tuesday 27 March 2001 00:24, you wrote:
> > Here's screen grabs of the relevant sections from the trailer that I
> > mentioned:
> > http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/holo_controls.htm
> >
> > In the sickbay shot the device she's manipulating moves to her
> > ministrations, and the other two have active displays.
> >
> > Best,
> > Jesse
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 18:01:18 -0600
From: Charles R Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net>
Subject: RE: N.E. for Rachel was RE: Intro, etc.
Jesse wrote:
>For a little help, check out:
>http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/sulieman_tutorial.htm
>http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/mini_tex_tut.htm
>
>First one handles modeling, second one handles texturing. If it needs
to be
>more clearly explained, let me know and I'll try and re-write the
>tutorial....
Modeling is not a problem, I do that all day, everyday.
Texturing and rendering are the problem, your tutorial was nice (copy
now on my harddrive for easy reference) but I don't use the same
software that you do. So I have to translate what you did to what my
software can do and then try to figure it out. I guess what I am asking
for is more of a discription of what these terms mean to give me a
easier time translating it.
Cinema4D Go-> materials
Colour -> texture
Luminance -> texture
Transparency -> texture
Reflections -> texture
Environment -> texture
Fog
Bump -> texture
Genlocking -> texture
Highlight
Highlight Colour -> texture
Glow
Displacement -> texture
Do I need to create textures for each of these? Which are most useful?
Am I starting with the wrong program? I think I confused myself.
Charles H
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3827
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3828
Date: | 3/27/01 8:23:06 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Tuesday, March 27 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3828
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
RE: Semi-OT: 3D probs
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
RE: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
Did I slip up on canon?? (was RE: Traveller Find)
Lifespan of Starships
Webservers....
RE: Lifespan of Starships
Controls
RE: Traveller Find
Aslan (and other) Class Ships [LONG]
Re: Traveller Find
Re: Webservers....
Manual Backups for Holo Controls
Re: Traveller Find
RE: Lifespan of Starships
RE: Webservers....
RE: N.E. for Rachel was RE: Intro, etc.
RE: Semi-OT: 3D probs
How to join the Trav3D list - Directions
Re: controls
Ping?
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
Re: controls
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 18:04:44 -0600
From: Charles R Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net>
Subject: RE: Semi-OT: 3D probs
Jesse wrote:
>So yeah, you'll have to plan your meshes VERY carefully. If all else
fails
>(i.e. no plug-in out there) just add a couple more subdivisions to what
you
>estimate you'll need. You'll more than likely end up needing them at
some
>point. I can almost guarentee it!
Also I need to learn about meshes. I normally work with parametric
solids.
Charles H
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 15:21:07 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
In mail you write:
> Also why would a non automated process not be able to be done. are the
> piloting skills of the futures pilots so deteriated due to use of automated
> system that they cant pilot their ships anymore? is it impossable for the
> pilot to take a star sighting and calculate their position? impossable for
> the bridge to coordinate with engineering via comm system? impossible for
> damage control to do their job with out automation?
Calculating your positon, much less an orbit change burn *without* a
computer isgoing to take more time than you are likely to have. The
position fix might only take an hour. The orbit burn calcs will take
*days*.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 00:11:22
From: "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
The tactile feedback could be supplied through a pair of gloves. The fiber
of the gloves could be controlled to supply resistance and even an opposing
force. The gloves could extend up the arm as a sleeve if a larger range of
force was needed like working a ship's control levers. It could even form a
complete suit for foot controls, etc. Materials with those properties are
not too far beyond current capabilities.
John
>From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
>I'd always assumed (you know what they say about assuming ;) that there was
>some kind of tactile feedback. Otherwise, you're just wiggling fingers in
>air, and it would be VERY hard to know what you were pushing, pressing,
>turning, or activating (or IN-activating....Ooops, I just turned of the
>jump
>drive while in jump....BOOM)
>
>Jesse
>
> >
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 09:51:37 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Did I slip up on canon?? (was RE: Traveller Find)
Dear Folks -
Frank Pitt corrected me:
>>>"Action Aboard the King Richard"
>>
>> Ah yes, a classic Keith Bros production
>
>Nope, it was written by Bill Paley and designed by Jordan Weismann
Ack! You're right! (hangs head shamefacedly). My plea is that I was thrown
by the Bill Keith illo on the cover, plus the few inside.
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. ;-)
Anyway, Frank, any chance of getting a copy of the A3-sized plans? They're
missing from my booklet (and I've NEVER seen the full-sized things - those
are RARE!!).
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 19:34:58 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Lifespan of Starships
I know, this one got beat up last year sometime, and yes, I know, I'm not
supposed to be here because I already said goodbye, but I thought I'd throw a
few useless facts out from a class I'm taking about the expected active-duty
lifespan of CURRENT military systems (i.e. how long the US military expects
examples of these systems to be in its active use and requiring support):
Los Angeles (688) class SSN: 56 years
2.5T truck: 67 years
B-52 bomber: 94 years
That's right, folks. The Air Force has *already* had third-generation pilots
flying the BUFF. It is quite possible for a teen today to join the Air Force
and wind up flying the *same* serial number aircraft as his
great-grandfather.
Now try to tell me you won't find two or three hundred year old tramp
freighters still plying the Marches ...
(source: Intermediate Systems Acquisition Course, Defense Systems Management
College, Ft. Belvoir, VA)
- --Contrary to popular belief, Unix is user friendly.
It just happens to be selective about who it makes friends with.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 16:35:51 -0800
From: William Lane <wlane@Asera.com>
Subject: Webservers....
I am wondering if anyone on the list has a webserver i could steal a small
amount of space from for a small website for our gaming group.
I have looked at some of the free sites geocities and such and truth is i
hate ads. if we have to live with them then so be it.
But before adding our site to one of these servers i thought i would ask and
see if anyone could help.
thanks in advance.
Bill
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 16:59:43 -0800
From: William Lane <wlane@Asera.com>
Subject: RE: Lifespan of Starships
Well when I helped pull the Missouri out of mothballs in I was told that her
life expectancy was based on steaming years not actual years. I was also
told that she had only 6 years steaming time (I think it was 6 was
definitely some really low number) and she had a life expectancy of 45 years
steaming.
now we pulled her out in 1984. she went into mothballs sometime in the 50s.
I got the exact date at home (but my mind is thinking around 1957). so from
the time she was built 1944ish to 1955+ she only put like 6 years steam time
on her.
On a side note about about serving in the same place as previous family. My
Uncle (god rest his soul) was radio man on the Missouri in 1945. he stepped
on board the day she got back from tokyo bay. 40 years later i am assigned
to the engineering department of the exact same ship. It is something that
means a lot to me because he and i have that common bond. is hard to
explain. as long as that ship exists it is like we are linked. i dont feel
such a loss now that he is gone. sort of stupid i guess.
Hasta
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David J. Golden [mailto:goldendj@pcisys.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 6:35 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Lifespan of Starships
>
>
> I know, this one got beat up last year sometime, and yes, I
> know, I'm not
> supposed to be here because I already said goodbye, but I
> thought I'd throw a
> few useless facts out from a class I'm taking about the
> expected active-duty
> lifespan of CURRENT military systems (i.e. how long the US
> military expects
> examples of these systems to be in its active use and
> requiring support):
>
> Los Angeles (688) class SSN: 56 years
> 2.5T truck: 67 years
> B-52 bomber: 94 years
>
> That's right, folks. The Air Force has *already* had
> third-generation pilots
> flying the BUFF. It is quite possible for a teen today to
> join the Air Force
> and wind up flying the *same* serial number aircraft as his
> great-grandfather.
>
> Now try to tell me you won't find two or three hundred year old tramp
> freighters still plying the Marches ...
>
> (source: Intermediate Systems Acquisition Course, Defense
> Systems Management
> College, Ft. Belvoir, VA)
> --Contrary to popular belief, Unix is user friendly.
> It just happens to be selective about who it makes friends with.
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 17:00:29 -0800
From: sneadj@mindspring.com
Subject: Controls
William Lane <wlane@Asera.com> wrote:
>
> > Actually, almost certainly you can't; an awful lot of
> > problems for ships simply
> > aren't suited to non-automated solutions. Assuming
> > holographics are as
>
> hmmmm By your logic. there is no reason for a 757's to have the basic
> flight insterments. they should all be just a computer screen back up
> of the current computer screen. yet this is not the case. if they lose
> the computers they can still put the plane on the ground.
I'm assuming there are no manual backups on a starship:
1) The Imperium has been using fully computerized controls for
thousands of years, they've had electronics (if you include the
Vilani) for well longer than we've had bronze. These things are
going to be exceedingly reliable. Automobiles do not have manual
back-ups for power steering, and power steering has only existed
for a few decades.
2) Manual controls imply cables and hydraulics, I'm fairly certain
that those will be useless for attempting to control thrusters, a
jump drive or advanced sensors. if nothing else, if you computer is
down you have no sensors. Also, it seems only reasonable that
jump calculations are not something humans can do in any sort of
reasonable time frame.
Basically, if your computer is out, and all your backup computers
are out, then you are dead in space. However, given the reliability
of these computers, you're also probably also just plain dead. If
your computer is not out then various forms of electronic and
holographic controls will work fine.
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 20:24:50 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
Subject: RE: Traveller Find
On Tue, 27 Mar 2001 13:41:17 -0500 (EST), mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk
(Megan Robertson) wrote:
>In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEMPFOAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
>Greetings dear hearts.
>Nice story about the 'model' trawler... reminds me of the time in
>chemistry lab class.
>Teacher: "What's in that glassware bubbling away in the corner?"
>Mexal: "Erm, just, er, nitrating some di-nitro-toluene*."
>Teacher: [Pause for thought] "Get rid of it NOW. But carefully."
>And that one's a true story. The teacher kept telling us how to make the
>stuff, so one day I did :-)
Mexal, that story's just dynamite!
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
(ILink: news without the abuse. Ask via email.)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 10:57:25 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Aslan (and other) Class Ships [LONG]
Dear Folks -
Peter Trevor penned:
>I don't know about the Aslan ships (mine also came in a box), but
>I do know that Adventure Ships (vol 1) was first released in
>'flat envelope' packaging, then re-released in a box. The box
>release had a second booklet and some cardboard counters included
>which wasn't in the envelope release (just had the one booklet as
>an extra). Maybe there were two releases of the Aslan ships?
Sounds likely. Frank Pitt (who said my flat copy was probably a
repackaging) seems to be correct. I've gone back and taken a *much* closer
look at my copy of "Aslan Class Ships", and sure enough, it appears as
though the front and back cardboard sheets were trimmed from a box! I
remember they came shrink-wrapped, so Frank's assertion is undoubtedly
correct.
For info, the copyright date is 1982 by FASA, written by J. Andrew Keith
and illustrated by Bill. The development of the Aslan is credited to Bill
Keith, Frank Chadwick, John "Hershman" (I think that's meant to be Harshman
;-), and Loren K. Wiseman. Jordan Weisman (don't confuse him with Loren,
now!) came up with the Intruder Transport design, while the Battle Leader
was developed by Ross Babcock. My copy includes both booklets plus the
counters (unpunched as yet!).
I couldn't find them until I remembered that I stuck them into my copy of
"Merchant Class Ships", yet another (flattened!) box in this series. This
one contains deckplans for six 1000-ton merchant ships, two booklets, and
counters. It's quite fascinating to see how they differentiated between the
ships, since they are the same size and essentially do the same job.
Copyright on this set is also 1982 (one of Traveller's premier years), with
credits here going to J. Andrew Keith (writing), Ross Babcock & Jordan
Weisman (ship designs), Mitch O'Connor (cover art), and William H. Keith
(interior art).
My copy of "Adventure Class Ships Vol 1" is copyright 1982 yet again (but
is the second printing). Again, deckplans, two books, plus a counter sheet.
Book 1 is credited to Jordan Weisman (product concept), Craig Johnson,
Scott Walschlager, Ross Babcock, and Jordan (all for writing), J. Andrew
Keith (editing), and Bill Keith (all artwork). Book 2 was written by J.
Andrew Keith and illustrated by Bill Keith. For those 3D-ers asking about
iris valves, there is an excellent pic on p 11 showing a wall-mounted
valve. It is basically a rectangle with the points rounded off, and it
tapers slightly from the bottom to the top.
"Adventure Class Ships Vol 2" is a little odd, in that Book 1 doesn't have
a copyright date. Still follows the "plans + 2 books + counters" format.
Credits go to Rob Caswell (Alexandra-class Free Trader concept and design -
this must be Rob's first Trav appearance!), GDW staff (concept and basic
designs of most of the ships), Bill & J. Andrew (further development of the
basic designs), Andrew again (writing), Jordan Weisman (deckplans), John
Harshman (development assistance), and Bill again (illos). Book 2 is a bit
more forthcoming, copyright 1982, with J. Andrew (writing), Bill (illos),
Jordan (layout) and Helena Szepe (editing).
One point about the plans: when you put your 15mm Trav figurines down on
them, the plans look too small. Thats because they ARE too small; they are
based on a half-inch grid, whereas they should be based on a 15mm grid.
That's the point at which you grab some 5 mm graph paper and start
re-drawing. Ho hum.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 11:10:11 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Traveller Find
Dear Folks -
OK, chalk up a virtual keyboard-kill (virtual because I "don't drink and
TML" ;-) for this one from Jens:
>david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:
>> >Oh great! Now I have an image stuck in my head of a 3000 dton
>> >cardboard box!
>>
>> So, what are the High Guard stats for that?
>
>I don't have High Guard, but I do have FF&S2:
>
>3000 dt medium box, unstreamlined, rated for 1G
[etc]
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 18:39:29 -0700
From: "Johnny" <gamersvault@yucca.net>
Subject: Re: Webservers....
William, try www.crosswinds.net
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 11:17:11 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Manual Backups for Holo Controls
Dear Folks -
Donavan asked:
>Which leads me to another
>question - would bridges be totally reliant on holo controls, or would
they
>have "manual" backups?
Well, Riker demonstrated that the Enterprise does...
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 11:20:17 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Traveller Find
Dear Folks -
Rachel wrote:
>Douglas Berry wrote:
>
>> Packing tape. I need lots of packing tape.
>
>And styrofoam peanuts! They must give a bit of radiation shielding,
>anyway.
>
>Wow, is my life devoid of meaning?
Well, you can always count keyboard kills.
(Chalk one up for Rachel!)
- - Hyphen
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 17:28:53 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: Lifespan of Starships
A bomber is supposed to have a longer life-span than a truck.......
There is something INHERENTLY wrong with that......
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of David J. Golden
> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 6:35 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Lifespan of Starships
>
>
> I know, this one got beat up last year sometime, and yes, I know, I'm not
> supposed to be here because I already said goodbye, but I thought
> I'd throw a
> few useless facts out from a class I'm taking about the expected
> active-duty
> lifespan of CURRENT military systems (i.e. how long the US
> military expects
> examples of these systems to be in its active use and requiring support):
>
> Los Angeles (688) class SSN: 56 years
> 2.5T truck: 67 years
> B-52 bomber: 94 years
>
> That's right, folks. The Air Force has *already* had
> third-generation pilots
> flying the BUFF. It is quite possible for a teen today to join
> the Air Force
> and wind up flying the *same* serial number aircraft as his
> great-grandfather.
>
> Now try to tell me you won't find two or three hundred year old tramp
> freighters still plying the Marches ...
>
> (source: Intermediate Systems Acquisition Course, Defense Systems
> Management
> College, Ft. Belvoir, VA)
> --Contrary to popular belief, Unix is user friendly.
> It just happens to be selective about who it makes friends with.
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 20:55:43 -0500
From: "Swordy" <swordworlder@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Webservers....
Downport.com has free 5mb sites available. Cool URL for a website, too ;)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of William Lane
> I am wondering if anyone on the list has a webserver i could steal a small
> amount of space from for a small website for our gaming group.
>
> I have looked at some of the free sites geocities and such and truth is i
> hate ads. if we have to live with them then so be it.
>
> But before adding our site to one of these servers i thought i
> would ask and
> see if anyone could help.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 17:46:04 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: N.E. for Rachel was RE: Intro, etc.
For a normal ship, I'll have textures on the following channels:
Color
Diffuse
Specular
Bump
In Cinema4D:
Color = Color - duh! That one's easy
Diffuse = ? - I'm not sure what your equiv. is. Might be environment?
Specular = Might be highlight...
Bump = Duh.
I'm not sure what your Environment & Highlight channels are, and I've
absolutely NO clue what your Genlocking channel is (Genlock to me is video
sync related).
***Note, found it while looking as per below. Weird ;)***
Based on what I saw at their website, it certainly looks like you have
enough texture control to do anything you need to. It's just a matter of
figuring out what you need to use and how. Going through the tutorials on
their site, if you haven't already, should give you some idea of what you
need to do....
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Charles R Hensley
> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 4:01 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: RE: N.E. for Rachel was RE: Intro, etc.
>
>
> Jesse wrote:
>
> >For a little help, check out:
> >http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/sulieman_tut
> orial.htm
>
> >http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/mini_tex_tut.htm
> >
> >First one handles modeling, second one handles texturing. If it needs
> to be
> >more clearly explained, let me know and I'll try and re-write the
> >tutorial....
>
> Modeling is not a problem, I do that all day, everyday.
>
> Texturing and rendering are the problem, your tutorial was nice (copy
> now on my harddrive for easy reference) but I don't use the same
> software that you do. So I have to translate what you did to what my
> software can do and then try to figure it out. I guess what I am asking
> for is more of a discription of what these terms mean to give me a
> easier time translating it.
>
> Cinema4D Go-> materials
> Colour -> texture
> Luminance -> texture
> Transparency -> texture
> Reflections -> texture
> Environment -> texture
> Fog
> Bump -> texture
> Genlocking -> texture
> Highlight
> Highlight Colour -> texture
> Glow
> Displacement -> texture
>
> Do I need to create textures for each of these? Which are most useful?
> Am I starting with the wrong program? I think I confused myself.
>
> Charles H
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 17:46:50 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: Semi-OT: 3D probs
Umm, parametric solid? Is that a solid that's defined by series of
equations? What program are you using?
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Charles R Hensley
> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 4:05 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: RE: Semi-OT: 3D probs
>
>
> Jesse wrote:
>
> >So yeah, you'll have to plan your meshes VERY carefully. If all else
> fails
> >(i.e. no plug-in out there) just add a couple more subdivisions to what
> you
> >estimate you'll need. You'll more than likely end up needing them at
> some
> >point. I can almost guarentee it!
>
> Also I need to learn about meshes. I normally work with parametric
> solids.
>
> Charles H
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 17:49:14 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net>
Subject: How to join the Trav3D list - Directions
Send an email to "trav3d-request@atlantic-online.ns.ca" with just the word
"subscribe" in the message body.
Maybe we can get this puppy rollin' again ;)
Jesse
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 21:48:07 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: controls
In a message dated 27-Mar-01 6:12:19 PM Central Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:
> And what about those folk without stereoscopic vision or other reliable
> close-in depth perception? They'd have fun...
Such as my humble self . . . I have no depth perception because I am
extremely nearsighted in one eye and extremely farsighted in the other. Even
with glasses, I usually look through one eye and "ignore" the image from the
other eye. Those "3D" puzzles never work for me, and I can't focus both eyes
at once without conscious effort (that soon becomes painful).
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 18:16:10 +0100
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: Ping?
No emails from the TML in 24 hours. Either everyone finished
saying what they wanted to say all at the same time or ...
Something ain't working!
Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 18:41:55 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> wrote
> William Lane writes:
> > hmmmm By your logic. there is no reason for a 757's to have the basic
> > flight insterments. they should all be just a computer screen back up of
> > the current computer screen. yet this is not the case. if they lose the
> > computers they can still put the plane on the ground.
>
> They can? A lot of modern military aircraft can't.
You can pretty much always put a plane on the ground, it is merely
a matter of how many dozen pieces it will be in at the time. ;)
- --
Did you ever wonder if Lassie had Munchausen by Proxy?
Timmy sure seemed to fall down a lot of wells.
Peter Newman pnewman@gci.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 23:23:55 -0500
From: "Mike Peters" <Travelleri@home.com>
Subject: Re: controls
Even discounting the fact that a starship producing society should be
advanced enough to correct vision problems such as Loren's, I wouldn't
expect a person suffering this type of 'handicap' to be a pilot, or gunner
on a star ship, even a navigator might be a stretch, if jump navigation
required 3D mapping. In engineering or a steward's position, I'd expect them
to reconfigure they're displays and controls to a "flat screen" style.
My personal mind picture of a holo control system is closer to VR, with the
controller in a contoured seat, a 360 degree display surrounding them and
"pop-up" VR control panels, configured by the operator's preference.
Information would appear as "heads up" displays, placed conveniently. The
display would rotate in any direction by simple commands, as well as zoom or
expand, while data would remain in the same location relative to the
operator. Stars and other "bright" objects would be covered by
semi-transparent screens (see through discs, sometimes with a bull's-eye
pattern). The operator would feel as if she or he were floating in their
seats, in actual space. This is also why windows or ports would be "back up
sensors" only, installed more from custom or habit than anything else.
They'd almost always be left shuttered, even passengers would look at
filtered holos rather than "real" windows.
This same system would work for pilots, gunners and navigators (depending on
their tastes). Steward, engineering and medical displays and controls would
be more like "flat" controls that "follow" their users, staying at easy and
comfortable access range, and blinking in and out of view on command.
Feedback could be done in several ways, but if controls are of the point and
move type, such as on the sci-fi channel commercials, or the shuttle
controls on Earth the Final Conflict, I think people could, after decades or
generations, get used to living with out it.
Mike
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: controls
> In a message dated 27-Mar-01 6:12:19 PM Central Standard Time,
> owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:
>
> > And what about those folk without stereoscopic vision or other reliable
> > close-in depth perception? They'd have fun...
>
> Such as my humble self . . . I have no depth perception because I am
> extremely nearsighted in one eye and extremely farsighted in the other.
Even
> with glasses, I usually look through one eye and "ignore" the image from
the
> other eye. Those "3D" puzzles never work for me, and I can't focus both
eyes
> at once without conscious effort (that soon becomes painful).
>
> LKW
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3828
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From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)
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Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3828
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Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3829
Date: | 3/28/01 12:35:12 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Wednesday, March 28 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3829
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
Re: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
Re: GT: WANTED - Starport Construction Equipment
RE: Semi-OT: 3D probs
RE: N.E. for Rachel was RE: Intro, etc.
RE: N.E. for Rachel was RE: Intro, etc.
RE: Semi-OT: 3D probs
RE: Starship bridge artwork
RE: Starship bridge artwork
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3828
Holocontrols (was Re: Screen grabs (was RE: Starship bridge artwork))
Archives?
RE: Semi-OT: 3D probs
RE: Starship bridge artwork
RE: N.E. for Rachel was RE: Intro, etc.
RE: Holocontrols (was Re: Screen grabs (was RE: Starship bridge artwork))
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
RE: Traveller Find
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
RE: This may seem like a strange question, but....
RE: Semi-OT: 3D probs
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
RE: Controls
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 22:44:32 -0600
From: JR Holmes <jrholmes@wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
On Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:20:50 -0800, William Lane <wlane@Asera.com>
wrote:
>> They can? A lot of modern military aircraft can't.
>> >
>
>Yes they can. and yes they do. big difference between civilian and military
>aircraft.
He may have been referring to some of the next-gen military aircraft
which are deliberately built dynamically unstable and require
continuous computer-controlled corrections on a moment-by-moment basis
just to stay in the air.
The advantage to this sort of design is supposed to be a considerably
greater ability to change direction at any given time, since there is
no "natural" tendency for the aircraft to continue flying in a
straight line.
- --
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 07:52:13 +0300 (EET DST)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: Re: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, Thing wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 27, 2001 6:23 AM
> Douglas Berry said,
> > Nice! This is how I've always pictured holographic interfaces looking.
> I always thought a good example was the shuttle controls in "Earth Final
> Conflict".
I liked them too, and the organic-looking technology.
> Of course I sometimes think that I am the only person that stuck
> it out and liked the show.
I liked it, although here in Finland they showed only the first season.
I read the plots for following seasons and it seems that the show went
pretty much downhill...
(They stopped showing E:FC because of few people did watch it. On Thursday
nights at 23:30 or something like that. No, videoing it and watching the
next day does not count. Wonder which program _can_ get enough people
watching it at thaqt time... )
- --
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 23:44:24 -0500
From: "Rob Davenport" <rgd@ohio.voyager.net>
Subject: Re: GT: WANTED - Starport Construction Equipment
On 27 Mar 01, at 14:24, david.d.jaques-watson@centrel wrote:
> All together now:
>
> "Scoop, Muck and Dizzy
> And Roley too
> Lofty and Wendy
> Join the crew!
>
> Bob and the gang
> Have so much fun
> Working together
> They get the job done!
>
> Bob the Builder
> Can we fix it?
> Bob the Builder
> YES WE CAN!!
>
> (Er, yeah, I think so!)"
>
> ;-)
>
> Sorry, hours and hours of Bob takes its toll...
Ah! I'm not the only one! :)
Rob
(Actually my older son [age 6] has graduated from Barney,
to Thomas the Tank Engine, Nickelodeon, and now to <cough>
Pokemon. My younger son loves Bob the Builder, Thomas,
'real trains', and <cough> Pokemon (because he brother likes
it). So at least the interests change every few months/years,
but in the meantime, the repetition can be - well, hard to
deal with. Nothing like a Traveller obsession, no, nothing
at all like that. :)
- --
Rob Davenport -- rgd at ohio dot voyager dot net
'There's too much blood in my caffeine system.'
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 22:52:02 -0600
From: Charles R Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net>
Subject: RE: Semi-OT: 3D probs
Jesse wrote:
>Umm, parametric solid? Is that a solid that's defined by series of
>equations? What program are you using?
Yes. ProE and SolidWorks (Engineering solid modeling CAD systems)
Charles H
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 22:59:45 -0600
From: Charles R Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net>
Subject: RE: N.E. for Rachel was RE: Intro, etc.
Colour and Bump I knew, as with Fog, Glow, Transparency, Luminance, and
Reflections. But do not know what type of texture to put in the last
three.
Genlocking: Cinema4D is for animation, so it could be for video snc, but
why would it need a texture?
Thanks for the help with the textures. I forgot about the Cinema4D
site. could not get there when I got the software. (site was down, just
did not go back)
Charles
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 22:10:52 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: RE: N.E. for Rachel was RE: Intro, etc.
On Tue, 27 Mar 2001 17:46:04 -0800 jdegraff@pacbell.net (Jesse DeGraff) wrote:
>For a normal ship, I'll have textures on the following channels:
>Color
>Diffuse
>Specular
>Bump
>
>In Cinema4D:
>Color = Color - duh! That one's easy
>Diffuse = ? - I'm not sure what your equiv. is. Might be environment?
>Specular = Might be highlight...
>Bump = Duh.
>
>I'm not sure what your Environment & Highlight channels are, and I've
>absolutely NO clue what your Genlocking channel is (Genlock to me is video
>sync related).
>***Note, found it while looking as per below. Weird ;)***
>
>Based on what I saw at their website, it certainly looks like you have
>enough texture control to do anything you need to. It's just a matter of
>figuring out what you need to use and how. Going through the tutorials on
>their site, if you haven't already, should give you some idea of what you
>need to do....
>
Yeah, Cinema has more than enough texturing ability to do what he wants. I
have Go myself, and have used it some.
Genlocking is indeed video related, it's a way of putting a movie file into an
animation as a texture.
By now we are boring the regulars and should remove this to the trav3D list.
I'll post some more coherent translations of texture tuypes tomorrow, if Jesse
doesn't beat me to it.
Bruce Johnson
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 22:12:58 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: RE: Semi-OT: 3D probs
On Tue, 27 Mar 2001 17:46:50 -0800 jdegraff@pacbell.net (Jesse DeGraff) wrote:
>Umm, parametric solid? Is that a solid that's defined by series of
>equations? What program are you using?
>
Parametric solid == Primitives or bezier shapes, mebbe NURBS, depending on
what his program supports.
Dunno if LW makes the distinction.
Bruce Johnson
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 23:28:06 -0600
From: "Donavan L." <dlambertus@dtgnet.com>
Subject: RE: Starship bridge artwork
Ok, as I may have mentioned earlier, I took a very fast crack at
holodisplays and controls. It is up for display at
http://lightning.prohosting.com/~navanod/traveller/holocontrol.jpg
I tend to agree with the assumption that this type of controls would have to
include some type of tactile feedback. Not only would this allow you to
push buttons, move sliders, etc, but for instance, grab a projection of
whatever and rotate it, etc. What do you all think?
Donavan L.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 00:42:23 -0500
From: "Richard L. Riessen" <tlists@badkarma.org>
Subject: RE: Starship bridge artwork
> I tend to agree with the assumption that this type of controls
> would have to
> include some type of tactile feedback. Not only would this allow you to
> push buttons, move sliders, etc, but for instance, grab a projection of
> whatever and rotate it, etc. What do you all think?
>
> Donavan L.
I would think that perhaps there would be some sort of IR or equivilent
motion detection array that would track hand movements within the
holographic control set, eliminating any sort of tactile feedback system.
There are similar mechanisms in arcade games today, that track the movement
of the body, I imagine they could be in use to track a person's hand through
a simulated control panel.
Rick
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 23:41:48 -0600
From: "Donavan L." <dlambertus@dtgnet.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3828
>Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 17:49:14 -0800
>From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net>
>Subject: How to join the Trav3D list - Directions
>Send an email to "trav3d-request@atlantic-online.ns.ca" with just the word
>"subscribe" in the message body.
>Maybe we can get this puppy rollin' again ;)
>Jesse
Great! Thanks a ton, just now subscribed.
Roll, puppy, roll!
Donavan L.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 00:53:52 -0500
From: "Walt Smith" <firelock_ny@hotmail.com>
Subject: Holocontrols (was Re: Screen grabs (was RE: Starship bridge artwork))
Megan Robertson (mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk) wrote:
>And what about those folk without stereoscopic vision or other reliable
>close-in depth perception? They'd have fun...
While someone pointed out that humans with such visual
limitations might simply not be good candidates to be
starship pilots, I'd like to note that not all starship crews
will be human. A sophont could have a basic set of optics in her
head that was completely normal for her species, but just
different enough from human norms to make human holocontrols
irritating if not useless.
Walt Smith
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 20:48:14 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Archives?
Where would I find the archives for the last few years of the list
again? And are they searchable or do I have to download them and search
them on my system?
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 22:49:03 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: Semi-OT: 3D probs
Ah-hah! Light dawns on Marble Head :)
Nice CAD programs! I've no experience with them myself, but I've heard
about 'em. I know zero about trying to texture them though....
A mesh in the 3D artwork sense is, as far as we're concerned, identical to
the solids & objects you're creating with your CAD programs. The real world
difference is that the CAD programs describe things in infinately precise
measurement, while 3D GRAPHICS & ANIMATION programs describe them by faking
it :) An example is in that quick stencil example I did for Rachel. At
medium or greater viewing ranges, you wouldn't be able to tell that the
cylinder was infinately round. As we get closer though, you can see from
the edges that it's made up of a finite number of polygons.
Hope this helps!
Jesse
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Charles R Hensley
> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 8:52 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: RE: Semi-OT: 3D probs
>
>
> Jesse wrote:
>
> >Umm, parametric solid? Is that a solid that's defined by series of
> >equations? What program are you using?
>
> Yes. ProE and SolidWorks (Engineering solid modeling CAD systems)
>
> Charles H
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 22:51:23 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: Starship bridge artwork
You've got the gist of it!
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Donavan L.
> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 9:28 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: RE: Starship bridge artwork
>
>
> Ok, as I may have mentioned earlier, I took a very fast crack at
> holodisplays and controls. It is up for display at
>
> http://lightning.prohosting.com/~navanod/traveller/holocontrol.jpg
>
> I tend to agree with the assumption that this type of controls
> would have to
> include some type of tactile feedback. Not only would this allow you to
> push buttons, move sliders, etc, but for instance, grab a projection of
> whatever and rotate it, etc. What do you all think?
>
> Donavan L.
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 22:49:47 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: N.E. for Rachel was RE: Intro, etc.
Knock yerself out Bruce :)
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Bruce Johnson
> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 9:11 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: RE: N.E. for Rachel was RE: Intro, etc.
>
>
> On Tue, 27 Mar 2001 17:46:04 -0800 jdegraff@pacbell.net (Jesse
> DeGraff) wrote:
>
> >For a normal ship, I'll have textures on the following channels:
> >Color
> >Diffuse
> >Specular
> >Bump
> >
> >In Cinema4D:
> >Color = Color - duh! That one's easy
> >Diffuse = ? - I'm not sure what your equiv. is. Might be environment?
> >Specular = Might be highlight...
> >Bump = Duh.
> >
> >I'm not sure what your Environment & Highlight channels are, and I've
> >absolutely NO clue what your Genlocking channel is (Genlock to
> me is video
> >sync related).
> >***Note, found it while looking as per below. Weird ;)***
> >
> >Based on what I saw at their website, it certainly looks like you have
> >enough texture control to do anything you need to. It's just a matter of
> >figuring out what you need to use and how. Going through the
> tutorials on
> >their site, if you haven't already, should give you some idea of what you
> >need to do....
> >
>
> Yeah, Cinema has more than enough texturing ability to do what he wants. I
> have Go myself, and have used it some.
>
> Genlocking is indeed video related, it's a way of putting a movie
> file into an
> animation as a texture.
>
> By now we are boring the regulars and should remove this to the
> trav3D list.
> I'll post some more coherent translations of texture tuypes
> tomorrow, if Jesse
> doesn't beat me to it.
>
> Bruce Johnson
> College of Pharmacy
> Information Technology Group
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 22:53:32 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: Holocontrols (was Re: Screen grabs (was RE: Starship bridge artwork))
Doesn't that fall under the dynamically adjustable portion of the controls?
AFAIC, there would be basic hardwired controls to set the species
parameters, like being able to see further into the infra-red than humans.
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Walt Smith
> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 9:54 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Holocontrols (was Re: Screen grabs (was RE: Starship bridge
> artwork))
>
>
> Megan Robertson (mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk) wrote:
>
> >And what about those folk without stereoscopic vision or other reliable
> >close-in depth perception? They'd have fun...
>
> While someone pointed out that humans with such visual
> limitations might simply not be good candidates to be
> starship pilots, I'd like to note that not all starship crews
> will be human. A sophont could have a basic set of optics in her
> head that was completely normal for her species, but just
> different enough from human norms to make human holocontrols
> irritating if not useless.
>
> Walt Smith
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 10:30:46 +0300
From: Niko Mikkanen <niko.mikkanen@capslock.fi>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
Peter Newman wrote:
> You can pretty much always put a plane on the ground, it is merely
> a matter of how many dozen pieces it will be in at the time. ;)
> Peter Newman pnewman@gci.net
It'll usually be in one piece. For a while...
GNiko
- --
"Behind every successful man is a woman, behind her is his wife."
- --Groucho Marx
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 19:43:28 +1200
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: Traveller Find
Megan Robertson wrote :
> Nice story about the 'model' trawler... reminds me of the time in
> chemistry lab class.
Thanks, but I think Michael Palin should be the one to take the credit.
> Teacher: "What's in that glassware bubbling away in the corner?"
>
> Mexal: "Erm, just, er, nitrating some di-nitro-toluene*."
>
> Teacher: [Pause for thought] "Get rid of it NOW. But carefully."
>
> And that one's a true story. The teacher kept telling us how to make the
> stuff, so one day I did :-)
Well back when I was in high school (almost thirty years ago) our chemistry
teacher told us how to synthesize lysergic diethyl-amide (if I've remmebered
it correctly), but he got fired before we got a chance to make it.
He was fired because the police, whose station he was living opposite,
noticed, after several months, that were hemp plants growing in his window
box.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 19:56:18 +1200
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
Anthony Jackson wrote:
> They can? A lot of modern military aircraft can't.
I'll just point out that the _only_ aircraft that can't be landed without
electrical power, let alone computers, are a few high tech _fighters_ all of
which are fitted with ejection seats which can be used in such an emergency.
Most aircraft, including helicopters and passenger jets, can be landed
dead-stick, with neither electrical or engine power.
Of course, it's not always easy to do so !
Which is why New Zealand military pilots used to practice it all the time.
Now of course, New Zealand hasn't got any military pilots. <grin>
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 09:15:34 +0100
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: This may seem like a strange question, but....
Doesn't Brawling cover improvistional weaponry? Although I suspect that
default brawling would have the charcter hit the opponant with the F.E. I
also allow hosing attacks...there is such a thing as sticking to rules to
the point of absurdity...and extinguishers aren't THAT hard to use in
combat. Ahem.
Dean
>
> At 12:40 PM -0500 3/27/01, Paul Drye wrote:
> >Are there any GURPS rules for using fire extiguishers as makeshift
> >weapons? I'm finishing off an article for submission for JTAS, and
> >circumstances dictate that I need to address this. (Don't ask. <g>)
>
> Nothing direct. I suspect that the skill would fall under Guns,
> flamethrower (the GURPS skill for hosing a liquid at a foe whether
> you want to burn them, freeze them, or distract them). Most PC will
> be using it as a default.
>
> I don't know if you can get weapon stats for such weapons from
> Vehicles II. If not, you would take a flamethrower and drop the acc
> & range and raise the SS to account for poorer aiming. I'm guessing
> they would do no damage.
>
> ______________________________
> summers@alum.mit.edu
> (This is the net. My e-mail address may be in Boston, but
> I'm in California.)
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 09:17:37 +0100
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Semi-OT: 3D probs
>
>
> Jesse wrote:
>
> >Umm, parametric solid? Is that a solid that's defined by series of
> >equations?
Direct conversion of mathematics to matter! Have you considered publishing
this discovery? :)
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 18:28:25 +1000
From: Rob <rhoughto@one.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
"Frank G. Pitt" wrote:
> Anthony Jackson wrote:
> > They can? A lot of modern military aircraft can't.
>
> I'll just point out that the _only_ aircraft that can't be landed without
> electrical power, let alone computers, are a few high tech _fighters_ all of
> which are fitted with ejection seats which can be used in such an emergency.
>
> Most aircraft, including helicopters and passenger jets, can be landed
> dead-stick, with neither electrical or engine power.
>
> Of course, it's not always easy to do so !
>
> Which is why New Zealand military pilots used to practice it all the time.
> Now of course, New Zealand hasn't got any military pilots. <grin>
>
yeah...for some reason they seem to operate of Australia more thean Enzedd...
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 20:47:27 +1200
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: Controls
sneadj@mindspring.com wrote :
> I'm assuming there are no manual backups on a starship:
>
> 1) The Imperium has been using fully computerized controls for
> thousands of years, they've had electronics (if you include the
> Vilani) for well longer than we've had bronze. These things are
> going to be exceedingly reliable. Automobiles do not have manual
> back-ups for power steering, and power steering has only existed
> for a few decades.
Automobiles _do_ have backups for power steering.
"Power steering" is really only "power-assisted" steering, you can still
steer the vehicle manually if the power steering fails.
At least, I haven't run into a car with power steering that couldn't be
steered manually yet. I suppose it's possible someone has built one, but it
wouldn't be allowed on the road in most countries.
> 2) Manual controls imply cables and hydraulics, I'm fairly certain
> that those will be useless for attempting to control thrusters,
They are used today to control thrusters on several VTOL aircraft, and have
been use on NASA spaceships.
> jump drive or advanced sensors. if nothing else, if you computer is
> down you have no sensors. Also, it seems only reasonable that
> jump calculations are not something humans can do in any sort of
> reasonable time frame.
Except that canonically it is possible to make jump calculations with a
sliderule and a book of tables. It takes much longer, but it is possible.
> Basically, if your computer is out, and all your backup computers
> are out, then you are dead in space.
Not if you have even rudimentary engineering training.
It doesn't take much to release air or fire a thruster (or handgunw for that
matter) with manual aiming It may not be pretty or extremely accrate, but
it's better than nothing.
> However, given the reliability of these computers, you're
> also probably also just plain dead. If
> your computer is not out then various forms of electronic and
> holographic controls will work fine.
This is the sort of backroom-boy assumption that lead to that experimental
USN battleship being towed back to port after it's computer crashed.
While scientists can assure us that the computer will never fail, computer
proganmmers and old spacehands will always refuse to fly in spaceships that
have no manual backups when they have a choice, and morale will be poor on
military ships that don't have them.
Excepting fighters and mechs of course, they are designed to be bailed out
of, rather than brought back home.
Frankie
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3829
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3830
Date: | 3/28/01 6:02:12 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Wednesday, March 28 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3830
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: controls
Re: Ping?
RE: Starship bridge artwork
RE: Lifespan of Starships
Re: Controls
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3828
RE: Ping?
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
RE: Aslan (and other) Class Ships [LONG]
Count your blessings...
Re: Lifespan of Starships
RE: Count your blessings...
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
RE: Traveller Find
Re: Count your blessings...
RE: Count your blessings...
RE: Semi-OT: 3D probs
RE: Controls
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
Re: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
HoloControls (was RE: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork...)
RE: Lifespan of Starships
Re: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
RE: This may seem like a strange question, but....
RE: Lifespan of Starships
RE: Holocontrols
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 09:33 +0100 (BST)
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
Subject: Re: controls
In-Reply-To: <002b01c0b73e$e7c6e180$03000004@glou1.nj.home.com>
Greetings dear hearts.
Interesting thoughts... particularly as I too lack stereoscopic vision but
have normal vision in both eyes, I just only see through one at a time!
It's a brain anomaly, 'wiring defect' as my dearly beloved puts it, not an
optical one. Opticians won't meddle with the system, and I am cleared for
all activities without need for correction :-)
I use different cues for depth perception, chiefly logic and parallax.
Very few tasks defeat me, but occasionally close things confuse, sometimes
I have to 'grope' to pick something up and I tend to pour liquids by
resting the neck of the bottle on the rim of the glass. I hate anything
near my face because I have no idea if its close enough to poke me in the
eye. Which means my daughter quite often does poke me because I quite
naturally don't want to shy away from her!
Hmm. Back to holo-control systems. A genuinely 3-D hologram panel would be
as efficient as a 'real' one because I could use the same cues of logic
and parallax to determine where any control surface was on the 'board'. On
the other hand, you may all breathe a sigh of relief when you hear that my
interests mean I'd end up the starship engineer not the pilot. I have this
fascination with Jump mechanics, you see... :-)
Hugs and kisses,
Mexal.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 09:33 +0100 (BST)
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
Subject: Re: Ping?
In-Reply-To: <D92025C710FAD111B8030000F808606801B25509@MSX1>
Greetings dear hearts, especially "Stalin"
PONG!
List is working fine... must be you.
Hugs and kisses,
Mexal.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 09:33 +0100 (BST)
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
Subject: RE: Starship bridge artwork
In-Reply-To: <004001c0b747$dfa70580$0200000a@dante>
Greetings dear hearts, especially Donovan.
That's nice. One of the things I like about it is the very diagrammatic
feel. I think a lot of controls would have the sort of diagrammatic or
wire-frame look, rather than the more textured stuff that things like the
film screenshots Jesse put up use. (Although for medical applications, the
full textured look is probably more useful in at least some cases!)
Hugs and kisses,
Mexal.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 20:55:12 +1200
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: Lifespan of Starships
Jesse DeGraff wrote :
> A bomber is supposed to have a longer life-span than a truck.......
>
> There is something INHERENTLY wrong with that......
Thing is, the bomber that is still around after fifty years will have had
almost all it's parts replaced, including the main wing spars. It's life
span is based more on how long they think bombers like that will actually be
useful to keep around, regardless of the cost, not so much on wear & tear.
The truck would be scrapped before they replaced it's chassis, because
trucks are worth less.
It has to do with the old military purchasing rules. You can spend five
million to "repair" an old house for the base commander, but if you spend
two million building him a new house, _that_ requires government approval,
so while it's cheaper to build a new one, the military will choose to repair
the old one at much higher cost, because they don't need approval for that.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 11:40:23 +0300 (EET DST)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: Re: Controls
On Tue, 27 Mar 2001 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> down you have no sensors. Also, it seems only reasonable that
> jump calculations are not something humans can do in any sort of
> reasonable time frame.
Hey, this contradicts canon!
The computers on most ships are some TL 7-8. (Depends on the version, of
course. B-) These compare to modern calculators, so probably the
calculations are possible, with pen and paper...
- --
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 01:47:55 -0800
From: "Pronto" <pronto_r031@telus.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3828
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Donavan L." <dlambertus@dtgnet.com>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 9:41 PM
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3828
> >Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 17:49:14 -0800
> >From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net>
> >Subject: How to join the Trav3D list - Directions
>
> >Send an email to "trav3d-request@atlantic-online.ns.ca" with just the
word
> >"subscribe" in the message body.
>
> >Maybe we can get this puppy rollin' again ;)
> >Jesse
>
>
> Great! Thanks a ton, just now subscribed.
>
> Roll, puppy, roll!
>
> Donavan L.
>
>
My thanks, too, Jesse. This could get fun.
Pronto
AKA Brian Taylor
Next year, at Burning Man!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 10:52:32 +0100
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Ping?
Hah, I'm back. Don't know what happened or how much I missed.
Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 10:52:38 +0100
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G}) wrote:
> Calculating your positon, much less an orbit change burn *without* a
> computer isgoing to take more time than you are likely to have. The
> position fix might only take an hour. The orbit burn calcs will take
> *days*.
Not sure how true to life it was but in the film "Apollo 13"
(allegedly based on true events) there was a scene where a burn
calculation was done using pen, paper and slide rule.
Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 10:58:43 +0100
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
>
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G}) wrote:
> > Calculating your positon, much less an orbit change burn *without* a
> > computer isgoing to take more time than you are likely to have. The
> > position fix might only take an hour. The orbit burn calcs will take
> > *days*.
>
> Not sure how true to life it was but in the film "Apollo 13"
> (allegedly based on true events) there was a scene where a burn
> calculation was done using pen, paper and slide rule.
Slide rules made maths a hell of a lot easier than pen and paper alone.
Nevertheless, a computer is still preferable when performing operations like
orbital vector burn calcs.
OB-1889: The analytical engine throws a cam and the interpid aethernauts are
trapped in a decaying orbit above the jungles of Venus! :)
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 11:05:17 +0100
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Aslan (and other) Class Ships [LONG]
Hyphen wrote:
> One point about the plans: when you put your 15mm Trav figurines
> down on them, the plans look too small. Thats because they ARE
> too small; they are based on a half-inch grid, whereas they should
> be based on a 15mm grid. That's the point at which you grab some
> 5 mm graph paper and start re-drawing. Ho hum.
Yup, this has come up before. All so-called "15mm scale" plans
made by US companies are actually a 1/2-inch grid, and all
so-called "25mm scale" plans made by US companies are actually a
1-inch grid. (Or, in other words, 15 x 2 = 25.)
Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 10:35:30 -0000
From: "Jeff Rowse" <jeffrowse@hotmail.com>
Subject: Count your blessings...
Rob sent...
<<SNIP>>
>Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 23:44:24 -0500
>From: "Rob Davenport" <rgd@ohio.voyager.net>
>Subject: Re: GT: WANTED - Starport Construction Equipment
<<...>>
>Ah! I'm not the only one! :)
>
>Rob
>
>(Actually my older son [age 6] has graduated from Barney,
>to Thomas the Tank Engine, Nickelodeon, and now to <cough>
>Pokemon. My younger son loves Bob the Builder, Thomas,
>'real trains', and <cough> Pokemon (because he brother likes
>it). So at least the interests change every few months/years,
>but in the meantime, the repetition can be - well, hard to
>deal with. Nothing like a Traveller obsession, no, nothing
>at all like that. :)
<</SNIP>>
My 3-year-old nephew watches (in no particular order of preference):
Pokemon, Bob the Builder, lots of Nick.Jr stuff, Disney Kids stuff, Thomas
the Tank Engine, and a lot of advertisments (yes, he will run around and be
a pain during the programs, but then stops dead when the ads come on - and
heaven help anyone who tries to switch channels!)
Still, it's better than my wife - *she* watches QVC :-(
Jeff.
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 12:39:06 +0200
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Lifespan of Starships
Jesse DeGraff wrote:
> A bomber is supposed to have a longer life-span than a truck.......
>
> There is something INHERENTLY wrong with that......
The truck is probably used more or less every day. Hopefully, the bomber
isn't...
;-)
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 11:39:00 +0100
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Count your blessings...
> My 3-year-old nephew watches (in no particular order of preference):
> Pokemon, Bob the Builder, lots of Nick.Jr stuff, Disney Kids
> stuff, Thomas
> the Tank Engine, and a lot of advertisments (yes, he will run
> around and be
> a pain during the programs, but then stops dead when the ads
> come on - and
> heaven help anyone who tries to switch channels!)
> Still, it's better than my wife - *she* watches QVC :-(
I came home yesterday and found my girlfried had beaten me back from work
and was watching QVC...oh dear.
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 13:46:38 +0300 (EET DST)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Jones, Dean wrote:
> > Not sure how true to life it was but in the film "Apollo 13"
> > (allegedly based on true events) there was a scene where a burn
> > calculation was done using pen, paper and slide rule.
> Slide rules made maths a hell of a lot easier than pen and paper alone.
Well, they do not make adding any easier. (In the film "Apollo 13" slide
rules are used for adding, which is quite hard..)
- --
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 23:07:51 +1200
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: Traveller Find
Talking of FASA deckplans, I canme across this while browsing :
TRAVELLER FASA ISPMV TETHYS 15MM DECKPLANS
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=573497856
Currently $3.00
To misquote a French k...niget, I've already got one, y'see.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 02:52:54 -0800
From: "Pronto" <pronto_r031@telus.net>
Subject: Re: Count your blessings...
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 2:39 AM
Subject: RE: Count your blessings...
> I came home yesterday and found my girlfried had beaten me back >from work
> and was watching QVC...oh dear.
>
> Dean
>
So, whats "QVC"?
I'd feel stupid for not knowing, except I haven't seen a TV show in over two
years. :)
But I thought I knew most of the names. (I have friends. Really, I do.)
Pronto
AKA Brian Taylor
Next year, at Burning Man!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 11:54:08 +0100
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Count your blessings...
>
> > I came home yesterday and found my girlfried had beaten me
> back >from work
> > and was watching QVC...oh dear.
> >
> > Dean
> >
>
> So, whats "QVC"?
>
> I'd feel stupid for not knowing, except I haven't seen a TV
> show in over two
> years. :)
> But I thought I knew most of the names. (I have friends.
> Really, I do.)
>
The home shopping channel, supplying cubic zirconium and star trek
commemerative plates since 1981*
Dean
*Not a reliable date, please don't flame
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 12:10:08 +0100
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Semi-OT: 3D probs
Dean Jones wrote:
> > Jesse wrote:
> > > Umm, parametric solid? Is that a solid that's defined by
> > > series of equations?
>
> Direct conversion of mathematics to matter! Have you considered
> publishing this discovery? :)
Sounds like a Dr Who story ... the last Peter Davidson one,
"Logopolis" I think.
Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 12:24:23 +0100
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Controls
Frank G. Pitt wrote:
> Automobiles _do_ have backups for power steering.
>
> "Power steering" is really only "power-assisted" steering, you
> can still steer the vehicle manually if the power steering fails.
>
> At least, I haven't run into a car with power steering that
> couldn't be steered manually yet. I suppose it's possible someone
> has built one, but it wouldn't be allowed on the road in most
> countries.
Many years ago I saw a concept car that was IIRC road legal ...
it was "drive-by-wire". There was *no* steering wheel, just a
joystick mounted in the driver's door (with a larger than normal
arm rest). In addition to left and right, if you pushed the
stick forward the car accelerated, pull back and the car braked.
Didn't catch on, though.
Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 13:32 +0100 (BST)
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
In-Reply-To: <D92025C710FAD111B8030000F808606801B2550B@MSX1>
Greetings dear hearts.
You can calculate an OMS burn relatively simply. Back of an envelope
jobbie, or 'between the ears' if you do it a lot. An interplanetary
course-correcting one takes a bit longer as you need to take more
variables into account - other bodies mostly (if you're in orbit the
forces from whatever you are orbiting usually are so much greater than
everything else that you can discount them).
Docking manoeuvres, well you either have specialised interactive computer
routines that talk to the other vessel or station you want to dock with,
or it's time for the trusty joystick and take her in manually. (In this
household, it is obligatory to sing the Blue Danube while doing so!)
Part of it depends on the accuracy you want. If you are en route to a
planet, you may just wish to ensure that you arrive at an angle and speed
suitable to move into an orbit around it, and you'll be able to do further
corrective burns as you get closer anyway. If you wanted to come straight
in and land on 'x marks the spot' you have to be very precise, but most
people don't do things like that (although the military might, sitting in
orbit is usually a bit of a giveaway that you are there!).
Hugs and kisses,
Mexal.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 07:33:09 -0500
From: Eric Freitas <efreitos@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
Thanks for the effort, I seem to be missing the previous message.
Anybody else going to see the Atlantis movie as well?? It looks
awesome. I might find new and wicked ways to torture my players...
Eric
On Tuesday 27 March 2001 19:08, you wrote:
> Already answered that, but I'll do it again for those that came in late ;)
>
> It's from the upcoming Final Fantasy movie. Hits U.S. Theaters July 13th.
>
> Jesse
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 06:48:10 -0600
From: "D. Smart" <dsmart@imagin.net>
Subject: HoloControls (was RE: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork...)
John Lambert posted:
>
> The tactile feedback could be supplied through a pair of gloves. The fiber
> of the gloves could be controlled to supply resistance and even an opposing
> force. The gloves could extend up the arm as a sleeve if a larger range of
> force was needed like working a ship's control levers. It could even form a
> complete suit for foot controls, etc. Materials with those properties are
> not too far beyond current capabilities.
>
> John
>
> >From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
> >I'd always assumed (you know what they say about assuming ;) that there was
> >some kind of tactile feedback.
Heck, I just assumed this was part of the function of the
ship jumpsuit most
crew wear. In addition to the jumpsuit doubling as a
light-duty pressure suit.
I used the multiplexor comm units from MT to allow the
circuitry of the suit
to link/communicate with any holopanel the wearer needs to
work with. Higher
TL suits will auto-configure any panel to the wearer's
preference upon vocal
or manual command (something like "I relieve you/I have the
con".
The *really* snazzy starships will auto-query the suits upon
the crewbeing
beginning his duty watch and have the panel configured by
the time the crewbeing sits/squats/lies down at the duty
station.
GM's Note: This can be a living hell during combat if a
player needs to take
over for another character and the ship's taken computer
damage. The player
could be faced with a completely unfamiliar control panel at
his normal
duty station.
David
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 06:58:48 -0600
From: "D. Smart" <dsmart@imagin.net>
Subject: RE: Lifespan of Starships
Jesse DeGraff posted:
>
> A bomber is supposed to have a longer life-span than a truck.......
>
> There is something INHERENTLY wrong with that......
>
> Jesse
Well, not really. Think about it.
When was the last time you saw a truck drop a bomb on a
bomber?
Personally, I think it's the Pentagon's subtle way of
getting
people out of the motor pool and into a weapon delivery
system.
<fnord>
David
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 08:04:49 -0500
From: Eric Freitas <efreitos@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
On Tuesday 27 March 2001 19:11, you wrote:
> The tactile feedback could be supplied through a pair of gloves. The fiber
> of the gloves could be controlled to supply resistance and even an opposing
> force. The gloves could extend up the arm as a sleeve if a larger range of
> force was needed like working a ship's control levers. It could even form a
> complete suit for foot controls, etc. Materials with those properties are
> not too far beyond current capabilities.
As a step further, professionals could get surgery to have a tactile implant
placed in each hand. Power for the tactile implant would come from the
control that is being used broadcast on RF. The implant would have several
capabilities:
1. intercept the tactile nerves and retransmit modified signals to the brain.
2. intercept the motor control nerves to the fingers and synthesize new
control signals that would cause the fingers to stop or slow down depending
upon the hardness of the material being simulated. This would simulate
touching a hard or soft surface.
3. The chip has two different power sources:
a. RF (just like ID chips)
b. Production of ATP to power nano-generators, utilizing hosts blood
supply.
RF power must be provided by all holo-dynamic controlls. This higher power
is needed to run the digital signal processors that synthesize the new nerve
signals. When RF power is not present, the power generated by ATP synthesis
is sufficient to pass the normal nerve signals and keep the chip in standby
mode.
This may sound very advanced, so place any tech level you feel necessary on
it. This sort of thing will probably be possible in the not too distant
future though. We already have ATP powered motors. Slapping a generator of
some sort on there would be a minimal step. The RF systems are already here.
I would suggest waiting until nano-circuit systems come up to speed in the
next ten years though, in order to shrink the system to a very small size.
> John
- --
Eric Freitas
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 08:05:42 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: This may seem like a strange question, but....
>...and extinguishers aren't THAT hard to use in combat. Ahem.
Oh, *do* tell. Thanks for the help, guys.
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 08:50:25 -0500
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com>
Subject: RE: Lifespan of Starships
> Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 17:28:53 -0800
> From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net>
> Subject: RE: Lifespan of Starships
>
> A bomber is supposed to have a longer life-span than a truck.......
>
> There is something INHERENTLY wrong with that......
>
> Jesse
Not really if you consider that they are talking about service
life. Look at it this way; how much money would it cost to replace
a 2.5 ton truck? $50,000? $100,000?(I'm guessing I haven't actually
priced one) Now how much to replace a B-52? Over a billion bucks
(B-2 I don't think you could build new B-52's for much less though
unless you started building them in droves again)
So all other things being even I would expect the AF to get much
more use out of the old workhorse bomber than a dime a dozen
(comparatively) truck. It costs more to replace.
David Shayne
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 08:49:26 -0500
From: "Walt Smith" <firelock_ny@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Holocontrols
Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net> wrote:
>Doesn't that [aliens that can't use human holocontrols] fall under
>the dynamically adjustable portion of the controls?
>AFAIC, there would be basic hardwired controls to set the species
>parameters, like being able to see further into the infra-red than humans.
For most species this should be true. But aliens with poor
short-range depth perception may have to configure those
holocontrols to pretty much emulate flat display panels, and
aliens with poor close-range detail vision - assuming that a
tool using culture is possible with such a physical limitation -
probably build starship controls that won't stress the visual
much at all.
Walt Smith
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 14:58:02 +0100
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3825
it's time for the trusty joystick and take her in
> manually. (In this
> household, it is obligatory to sing the Blue Danube while doing so!)
>
As a nod to 2001 or to Elite, Mexal? OTOH, Elite used the music as an homage
to 2001, so it's swings and roundabouts
Dean
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3830
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3831
Date: | 4/4/01 9:36:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Wednesday, April 4 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3831
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: controls
RE: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
Ping #2
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 14:29:03
From: "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: controls
A 3D hologram panel might even be more efficient than a "real" one because
you could add additional depth clues using color or brightness shading as a
function of "depth". This is done in some of the 3D graphics programs quick
rendering modes during the "construction" phase.
John
>
>Hmm. Back to holo-control systems. A genuinely 3-D hologram panel would be
>as efficient as a 'real' one because I could use the same cues of logic
>and parallax to determine where any control surface was on the 'board'. On
>the other hand, you may all breathe a sigh of relief when you hear that my
>interests mean I'd end up the starship engineer not the pilot. I have this
>fascination with Jump mechanics, you see... :-)
>
>Hugs and kisses,
>
>Mexal.
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 15:41:24 +0100
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
Eric Freitas wrote:
> As a step further, professionals could get surgery to have a
> tactile implant placed in each hand. Power for the tactile
> implant would come from the control that is being used broadcast
> on RF. The implant would have several capabilities:
I don't have my books at work with me like some of you have, but
IIRC there was an article on implants in Traveller ... in one of
the LBB JTASs (somewhere around issue 20, I'd guess).
Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 15:57:24 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Ping #2
No traffic in several days? Am I dead?
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End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3831
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3832
Date: | 4/4/01 11:04:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Wednesday, April 4 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3832
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Test
Re: Controls
Listsever Down?
Question
Ping?
Pingggg ...
List and activity
Re: Ping #2
Is the list still up?
Re: Traveller-digest
Test
Re: Listsever Down?
TML
Sword Worlds FW
List Test
WHAT HAPPENED?
Travelling: Houston, Texas
Re: Ghost Stories
Re: Ping?
test, ignore
Ping
Re: Test, Ping, etc.
Re: Travelling: Houston, Texas
Re: List Test
Is the list still up?
RE: Traveling: Houston, Texas
Re: Travelling: Houston, Texas
RE: Ping #2
RE: Build your own fusion reactor
RE: Ping #2
ADMIN: PLEASE READ **** VERY IMPORTANT ****
RE: [TML] Old listserver back up
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 09:34:38 -0400
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net>
Subject: Test
Just a test to I I have fallen off the list.
Dan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 09:08:59 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Controls
In mail you write:
> On Tue, 27 Mar 2001 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>> down you have no sensors. Also, it seems only reasonable that
>> jump calculations are not something humans can do in any sort of
>> reasonable time frame.
>
> Hey, this contradicts canon!
>
> The computers on most ships are some TL 7-8. (Depends on the version, of
> course. B-) These compare to modern calculators, so probably the
> calculations are possible, with pen and paper...
Excuse me, but I've *worked* with 1960s & 70s era mainframes. They can
do a lot more than a cacluator...
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 15:00:45 -0800
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Listsever Down?
Is the listserver down, or just quiet?
Tod
- --
"There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern.
They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."
-Daniel Webster
- --
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org
http://www.grandsurvey.com
http://travellerguns.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 21:48:14 +1000
From: "Jeffrey Malone" <nparker1971@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Question
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Could someone confirm that the list is working at the moment..haven't =
received any posts for the last four days.
J.M.M.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C0BA2C.49E2C6A0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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<HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<DIV>Could someone confirm that the list is =
working at=20
the moment..haven't received any posts for the last four =
days.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>J.M.M.</DIV>
- ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C0BA2C.49E2C6A0--
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 19:05:59 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Ping?
I haven't seen *anything* from the TML. Is anybody out there?
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 22:39:28 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Pingggg ...
Haven't gotten a digest in three days ... is this thing on?
- ----- WARNING! -----
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For further information see http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/18002.html
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http://www.passport.com/Consumer/TermsOfUse.asp
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 16:38:18
From: "Michael McKeown" <mmckeown67@hotmail.com>
Subject: List and activity
It appears the list is back and up. I know I just subscribed to the new list
at www.travellercentral.com but it appears the mail servers are set up at
IENT.
Mike "still lammenting over not being given a newbie essay" <sigh>
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 12:40:01 EDT
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re: Ping #2
Good thing we haven't zipped up the bodybag just yet...
GC
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 23:04:38 EDT
From: Damage169@cs.com
Subject: Is the list still up?
- --part1_3b.12bb42e2.27fbe946_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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I don't know what's happened, but I've not gotten any digests from this list
for several days, since the 28th of March. Is anyone else having a similar
problem?
Doug Grimes
- --part1_3b.12bb42e2.27fbe946_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I don't know what's happened, but I've not gotten any digests from this list
for several days, since the 28th of March. Is anyone else having a similar
problem?
Doug Grimes
- --part1_3b.12bb42e2.27fbe946_boundary--
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 21:08:14 -0000
From: "Jeff Rowse" <jeffrowse@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest
Um, I hope I'm not wasting too much bandwidth, but is there anyone there? I
haven't received any new Digest TMLs for five days... Is it just me, or is
someone playing silly bu******s?
Jeff.
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 16:52:40 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Test
Its been three days, has everyone been kidnapped by aliens?
Regards
Andrew etc.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 12:44:14 -0400
From: "Gordon Hundley" <drgoon@netaxs.com>
Subject: Re: Listsever Down?
> Is the listserver down, or just quiet?
>
> Tod
It's having name service problems. I haven't had a list email before yours
since the 28th of March. So I sent some tests to the list server, in short,
it says:
>>> MAIL From:<drgoon@netaxs.com> SIZE=800
<<< 451 <drgoon@netaxs.com>... Sender domain must resolve
Which means it cannot find an MX record for netaxs.com. I checked their
nameservice, and it works fine, and the records are healthy. All major
nameservers I did a indirect lookup through resolved it fine. The nameserver
listed for ient.com could not resolve a whole bunch of addresses....
However, it seemed to clear up at 12:38 Eastern today.
Gordon.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 12:47:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: TML
Does this mean that the TML has risen from the ashes?
Peez
At 12:30 PM 4/4/01 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Traveller-digest Wednesday, April 4 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3831
>
>
>
>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
>All rights reserved.
>
>The following topics are covered in this digest:
>
>Re: controls
>RE: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
>Ping #2
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 01:17:03 -0500
From: Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
Subject: Sword Worlds FW
Heres the dumb TML question for the day:
Which Frontier War[s] did the Sword Worlds not participate?
I think they sat out the Fourth, but I'm not entirely certain--Library Data is a little unclear
here.
While I'm asking, does anyone speak Zhodani? I need a translation for ZHILQATIJ.
Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/Spinward Marches
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 01:21:38 -0500
From: Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
Subject: List Test
Ping?
Must be spring break--or the colony ships have left with out me.
Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/Spinward Marches
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 20:17:54 -0700
From: Shawn Cherry <shawncherry@wave.net>
Subject: WHAT HAPPENED?
Haven't received anything from the list for a couple of days.
Shawn
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 00:57:28 -0500
From: Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
Subject: Travelling: Houston, Texas
Will be travelling to Houston at the end of the month. Does anybody know any good gaming stores
in the immediate area?
Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/Spinward Marches
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 13:35:05 +1000
From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au
Subject: Re: Ghost Stories
On: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 13:14:41 +1100
david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au said:
>Does anyone other than me remember "The Stone Tape"
I sure do!
The Stone Tape was one of the spookiest horror stories I've ever seen on TV.
I've even mentioned it on the TML some time back in connection with another
thread.
>Hey - just had a brainstorm to search for it on the 'net - the entire
>screenplay is available!! Take a look here:
> http://horrorsuspense.bizland.com/scripts/StoneTape.htm
Thanks for that address. I've tried to find it on the net before, as
I'd love to buy a tape of it, but with no success. I wonder who holds
the rights?
Graeme
______________________________________________________________
If at first you don't succeed, try, try not to repeat yourself.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 09:52:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Fox <jfox@verity.com>
Subject: Re: Ping?
Hello Everyone:
The TML list went down (as you probably knoe).
A couple of people stepped up to the plate and established another list for
traveller and here is the forwarded part of the e-mail
One *last* message to make sure we've got everyone (with all the
latest additions and deletions to the CC list) ... please pass
this on to any who might be interested:
With the temporary(?) loss of the old TML servers at iEnt, Tod
Glenn has set up a new TML server at tml@travellercentral.com.
Many existing TMLers were automatically added to this new server
but the available membership lists are quite old. Therefore some
people may have been missed, while others were added erroneously.
To alter your status either use the web form at
http://www.travellercentral.com, or send an email to
majordomo@travellercentral.com with
subscribe tml
or
unsubscribe tml
in the BODY of the message as appropriate.
Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)
John W. Fox
>
> I haven't seen *anything* from the TML. Is anybody out there?
>
> Eris
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
> http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 09:59:47 -0700
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: test, ignore
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
- ----
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
- ----
Tod Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.travellerguns.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org
- ------=_NextPart_000_0196_01C0BCED.FB3C54C0
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>----
When the pin is pulled, Mr. =
Grenade is not=20
our friend.
----
Tod Glenn
<A=20
href=3D"mailto:webmaster@travellercentral.com">webmaster@travellercentral=
.com
<A=20
href=3D"http://www.travellercentral.com">http://www.travellercentral.com<=
/A>
<A=20
href=3D"http://www.travellerguns.com">http://www.travellerguns.com<BR=
><A=20
href=3D"http://www.spinwardmarches.com">http://www.spinwardmarches.com</A=
>
<A=20
href=3D"http://www.solsec.org">http://www.solsec.org</DIV></BO=
DY>
- ------=_NextPart_000_0196_01C0BCED.FB3C54C0--
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 07:56:38 +0300 (EET DST)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: Ping
Hm, haven't gotten any list mail for a couple of days now.
Just pinging the list...
- --
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 18:04 +0100 (BST)
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
Subject: Re: Test, Ping, etc.
In-Reply-To: <3AC8AE58.13153.8F9D38@localhost>
Greetings dear hearts.
It appears that there is life in the old dog yet!
Tod has set up an new list at tml@travellercentral.com
you can subscribe by sending email to
majordomo@travellercentral.com with
the words 'subscribe tml' in the body of the message.
Or you can use the webform at
http://www.travellercentral.com. Select the
TML button on the left hand navigation bar.
Hugs and kisses,
Mexal.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 12:06:15 -0600
From: "Thomas Vickers" <tvickers@conroe.isd.tenet.edu>
Subject: Re: Travelling: Houston, Texas
There are a couple, or a least used to be.
Haven't been to one in nearly12 years :)
Others probably have better info than I.
TV
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 10:06:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
Subject: Re: List Test
On Mon, 2 Apr 2001, Roseberry wrote:
> Ping?
>
> Must be spring break--or the colony ships have left with out me.
>
> Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/Spinward Marches
>
We're receiving your signal at Terrapin Station in Lagrange orbit over
Shiratori, Shintaiyou system...
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..." -- X-JAPAN
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 22:20:10 -0500
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net>
Subject: Is the list still up?
Haven't received anything lately.
Les
=======================================================
Objects on screen may be more hostile than they appear.
=======================================================
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 12:21:34 -0500
From: "David C. Broussard" <broussa@connecti.com>
Subject: RE: Traveling: Houston, Texas
The best to hit would be Nan's. It is located at Shepard and US-59 just
South of downtown. They have a warehouse in back with tons of odd and old
stuff that they put out for sale occasionally. You can often find out of
print items and the like in their store. The other store worth visiting is
Phoenix Games...it is about 1 mile from Nan's so you can hit them both.
DCB
David C. Broussard (broussa@connecti.com)
ICQ PIN 1259783
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
The opinions represented herein are the sole responsibility of
the proclaimer, and should not be interpreted as dogma, doctrine
philosophy, or anything else other than blabber. However, if you
REALLY like it, then gimme a dollar!
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 12:20:22 -0600
From: "Thomas Vickers" <tvickers@conroe.isd.tenet.edu>
Subject: Re: Travelling: Houston, Texas
http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~mjcasav/Gaming/gamestores_houston.htm
Here is a page that covers the stores in Houston.
TV
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 12:24:31 -0500
From: Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
Subject: RE: Ping #2
>No traffic in several days? Am I dead?
No, but I think the colony ships have left without us.
Hopefully I'll see the emails I've sent pop up here shortly
Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/Spinward Marches
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 15:37:52 +1000
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au>
Subject: RE: Build your own fusion reactor
Last Couple of days I haven't recieved any posts from the TML. Has the
list been quiet, or has something happenned?
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Harris
Dytech Solutions
Ph: (03) 6224 4116
Fax: (03) 6224 4117
Mob: 0419 880 248
Email: paul.harris@dytech.com.au
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 04 Apr 2001 18:39:38 +0100
From: Paul Campbell <kemitix@users.sourceforge.net>
Subject: RE: Ping #2
On 04 Apr 2001 12:24:31 -0500, Roseberry wrote:
> >No traffic in several days? Am I dead?
>
> No, but I think the colony ships have left without us.
>
> Hopefully I'll see the emails I've sent pop up here shortly
And there was me thinking it was something I had done. I had some major
configuration probs. with my email around the 28th. I lost a couple
days worth of email to the bit bucket. Figured I must have been
bouncing mails so got unsubed by majordomo.
Hey, is there anyone else still here? Or am I talking to myself?
Anyway, just subbing to Tod's list....
- --
Paul Campbell (Sourceforge) <kemitix@users.sourceforge.net>
GPG Key fingerprint = 9C4F 31A3 8814 9F94 A533 A979 E63F 0C69 A771 0F24
http://www.kemitix.uklinux.net
jupiter: 6:35pm up 3 days, 19:42, 3 users, load average: 0.63, 0.33, 0.24
'It becomes natural, like a third sense',-Homer Simpson
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 13:50:33 -0400
From: Rob Miracle <rmiracle@bellsouth.net>
Subject: ADMIN: PLEASE READ **** VERY IMPORTANT ****
The list has been down for several days because iEN moved facilities. I
knew the move was coming, I however didn't know when.
This brings up a couple of issues. First, since I no longer work for iEN,
I'm not privileged to all the goings on there and things like the list
slipped through the cracks (perhaps they expected me to know since my wife
still works there or what).
Secondly, I'm so busy in my new life that I don't have time to list mom any
longer. I thought I could manage it but my lack of notifying the list of
the outage is a clear indication to me that I'm not doing my job.
Tod Glenn has taken the reigns and created a new Traveller list called
"tml@travellercentral.com". To subscribe there, you can send a message to:
majordomo@travellercentral.com
and in the body say:
subscribe tml
or go to www.travellercentral.com and subscribe via web form
there. Posts will go to the address: tml@travellercentral.com.
Its my intentions to let that become the new TML and Tod becomes the new
List Mom. I've had a great time doing this but changes happen that keep me
from going on.
Good Luck to Tod going forward.
I will let iEN know they can shut down their TML in about two weeks. That
should be sufficient time for everyone to migrate and for someone to pull
the files off of ftp.mpgn.com.
Thanks
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 11:03:46 -0700
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: [TML] Old listserver back up
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01C0BCF6.EB8320F0
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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My apologies to Rob Miracle. I did not mean this as a slight to him in any
way what-so-ever!!!!!!!!!! I'd forgotten that he knew the move was coming,
but didn't know when. I blame this entirely on iEnt, NOT on Rob.
My sincerest apologies if it sounded in any way like I was attacking you
personally Rob!!!!
Best,
Jesse
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Jesse Degraff
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 10:47 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Old listserver back up
<sarcasm>
Seeing as how they gave us such advance warning....
</sarcasm>
I say we stick with the TML 2.0.
Just my Cr.02, YMMV, FWIW, DSLIMHADTF
Jesse
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Tod Glenn
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 10:29 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Old listserver back up
Well,
It seems that the old list server at ient is back up. Do we want to go
back?
Tod
----
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
----
Tod Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.travellerguns.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org
- ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01C0BCF6.EB8320F0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D302015917-04042001>size=3D2>My=20
apologies to Rob Miracle.&nbsp; I did not mean this as a slight to him =
in any=20
way what-so-ever!!!!!!!!!!&nbsp; I'd forgotten that he knew the move was =
coming,=20
but didn't know when.&nbsp; I blame this entirely on iEnt, NOT on=20
Rob.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D302015917-04042001>
size=3D2></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D302015917-04042001>size=3D2>My=20
sincerest apologies if it sounded in any way like I was attacking you =
personally=20
Rob!!!!</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D302015917-04042001>
size=3D2></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D302015917-04042001>
size=3D2>Best,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D302015917-04042001>
size=3D2>Jesse</SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----
From:=20
owner-tml@travellercentral.com =
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On=20
Behalf Of Jesse Degraff
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 =
10:47=20
AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] =
Old=20
listserver back up
</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D005224517-04042001>color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>&lt;sarcasm&gt;</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D005224517-04042001>color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Seeing as how they gave us such advance =
warning....</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D005224517-04042001>color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>&lt;/sarcasm&gt;</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D005224517-04042001>color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I=20
say we stick with the TML 2.0.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D005224517-04042001>color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D005224517-04042001>color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Just=20
my Cr.02, YMMV, FWIW, DSLIMHADTF</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D005224517-04042001>color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Jesse</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D005224517-04042001>color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----
From:=20
owner-tml@travellercentral.com =
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On=20
Behalf Of Tod Glenn
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 =
10:29=20
AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] =
Old=20
listserver back up
</DIV>
<DIV>Well,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>It seems that the old list server =
at ient is=20
back up.&nbsp; Do we want to go back?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Tod</DIV>
<DIV>----
When the pin is pulled, Mr. =
Grenade is=20
not our friend.
----
Tod Glenn
<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:webmaster@travellercentral.com">webmaster@travellercentral=
.com
<A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.travellercentral.com">http://www.travellercentral.com<=
/A>
<A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.travellerguns.com">http://www.travellerguns.com<BR=
><A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.spinwardmarches.com">http://www.spinwardmarches.com</A=
>
<A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.solsec.org">http://www.solsec.org</DIV></BL=
OCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
- ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01C0BCF6.EB8320F0--
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3832
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3833
Date: | 4/4/01 10:45:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Thursday, April 5 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3833
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
RE: [TML] Old listserver back up
Hello?
Rob Miracle
Is this list still active?
RE: List Test
Re: Travelling: Houston, Texas
Re: TML
testing
Space Weather Advisory
Phoenix from the ashes
Addendum to 'Phoenix'
Re: TML 2.0
Re: [TML] Phoenix from the ashes
Re: Addendum to 'Phoenix'
Re: Phoenix from the ashes
Re: Addendum to 'Phoenix'
Re: List and activity
Re : Screen grabs (was re : Starship Bridge Artwork)
unsubscribe
Re: Controls
MPGN backup
Ping
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 14:41:38 -0400
From: Rob Miracle <rmiracle@bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: [TML] Old listserver back up
- --=====================_12561770==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 11:03 AM 4/4/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>My apologies to Rob Miracle. I did not mean this as a slight to him in
>any way what-so-ever!!!!!!!!!! I'd forgotten that he knew the move was
>coming, but didn't know when. I blame this entirely on iEnt, NOT on Rob.
>
>My sincerest apologies if it sounded in any way like I was attacking you
>personally Rob!!!!
No need to apologize. Its as much my fault because I knew the move was
coming and I wasn't pro-active enough. This is why I think its time to
hand the reigns over. I can't have a screwup like this leave you guys
hanging in the cold for a week.
I want you to go to the new list.....
Rob
- --=====================_12561770==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:03 AM 4/4/2001 -0700, you wrote:
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>My
apologies to Rob Miracle.&nbsp; I did not mean this as a slight to him in
any way what-so-ever!!!!!!!!!!&nbsp; I'd forgotten that he knew the move
was coming, but didn't know when.&nbsp; I blame this entirely on iEnt,
NOT on Rob.
&nbsp;
My sincerest apologies if it
sounded in any way like I was attacking you personally
Rob!!!!</blockquote>
No need to apologize.&nbsp; Its as much my fault because I knew the move
was coming and I wasn't pro-active enough.&nbsp;&nbsp; This is why I
think its time to hand the reigns over.&nbsp; I can't have a screwup like
this leave you guys hanging in the cold for a week.
I want you to go to the new list.....
Rob
- --=====================_12561770==_.ALT--
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 14:05:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>
Subject: Hello?
This is Jeff Hopper. I don't know what is going on,
but I haven't been able to get any postings from the
TML in over a week now. I'd really like to find out
what has happened because I didn't unsubscribe or anything.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 11:51:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com>
Subject: Rob Miracle
>From: Rob Miracle <rmiracle@bellsouth.net>
>Subject: ADMIN: PLEASE READ **** VERY IMPORTANT ****
>
>Secondly, I'm so busy in my new life that I don't have time to list mom
>any longer. I thought I could manage it but my lack of notifying the
>list of the outage is a clear indication to me that I'm not doing my job
Rob, you've been a great list mom and we will miss you. Tod, thanks for
taking over the list.
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 20:11:09 +0100
From: "Steve Ferguson" <steve.ferguson@zoom.co.uk>
Subject: Is this list still active?
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0BD43.63B8FC60
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
No posts - where has everyone gone?
- ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0BD43.63B8FC60
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<DIV>No posts - where has everyone =
gone?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
- ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0BD43.63B8FC60--
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 14:15:28 -0500
From: Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
Subject: RE: List Test
> Ping?
>
> Must be spring break--or the colony ships have left with out me.
>
> Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/Spinward Marches
>
>>We're receiving your signal at Terrapin Station in Lagrange orbit over
>>Shiratori, Shintaiyou system...
Whew! Here I was worried about misjumping to Zeta 2 Reticuli.....
Thanks.
Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/Spinward Marches
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 14:24:19 -0500
From: Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
Subject: Re: Travelling: Houston, Texas
<sniped>
Thanks for the info folks.
I guess I'll be bugging out to the new list now. See everyone there.
Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/Spinward Marches
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 12:45:26 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: TML
well, hopefully not ashes, since we're already discussing penguin
recipes, and Jesse's talking about how good a cook he is ;-)
But yes..The TML has survived it's fourth Great Move.
go to http://www.travellercentral.com to sign up. There's not even a
re-enlistment survival roll!
Ian Ferguson wrote:
>
> Does this mean that the TML has risen from the ashes?
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 17:09:28 -0600
From: Robert Gilson <rgilson@qwest.net>
Subject: testing
I haven't seen a message in a couple of days is the list dead?
Robert Gilson
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:57:04 -0800
From: hal@buffnet.net
Subject: Space Weather Advisory
Hello Folks,
I originally sent this March 15th, but got a "can not send" message. I
am resending this for those who might be interested...
Welcome to Sorel System Space. The sun has been moderate in its activity.
Debris has been spotted in sector 4 moving at 3.2 klicks per second.
Channel 431.5 contains continuous loop data on this navigational hazard.
Approach vector pos89 has been closed off due to a megafreighter's transit.
Pos89 will be cleared for traffic in 4 hours. Meanwhile, sector 5 is due
to be closed for convoy activity in 8 hours. Duration of closure will be
4.3 hours estimated.
Welcome to Sorel System Space. The sun has been moderate in its activity.
Debris has been spotted in sector 4 moving at 3.2 klicks per second.
Channel 431.5 contains continuous loop data on this navigational hazard.
Approach vector pos89 has been closed off due to a megafreighter's transit.
Pos89 will be cleared for traffic in 4 hours. Meanwhile, sector 5 is due
to be closed for convoy activity in 8 hours. Duration of closure will be
4.3 hours estimated.
NEW ALERT: monitoring stations indicate magnetic flux activity over the
north polar orbit of Sorel's Sun. Estimated time to solar flare is 27
minutes from 13:40. Duration estimated at 4 hours. Radiation output
estimated at .1 Gray per minute. Sorel Starport Authority recommends all
individuals seek radiation shelters within the next 15 minutes. Solar
flare predictions are accurate to +/- 33%. Welcome to Sorel System Space.
Solar Advisory in effect. Debris has been spotted in sector 4 moving at 32
klicks per second. Channel 431.5 contains continuous loop data on this
navigational hazard. Approach vector pos89 has been closed off due to a
megafreighter's transit. Pos89 will be cleared for traffic in 4 hours.
Meanwhile, sector 5 is due to be closed for convoy activity in 8 hours.
Duration of closure will be 4.3 hours estimated.
NEW ALERT: monitoring stations indicate magnetic flux activity over the
north polar orbit of Sorel's Sun. Estimated time to solar flare is 27
minutes from 13:40. Duration estimated at 4 hours. Radiation output
estimated at .1 Gray per minute. Sorel Starport Authority recommends all
individuals seek radiation shelters within the next 15 minutes. Solar
flare predictions are accurate to +/- 33%. Welcome to Sorel System Space.
Solar Advisory in effect. Debris has been spotted in sector 4 moving at 32
klicks per second. Channel 431.5 contains continuous loop data on this
navigational hazard. Approach vector pos89 has been closed off due to a
megafreighter's transit. Pos89 will be cleared for traffic in 4 hours.
Meanwhile, sector 5 is due to be closed for convoy activity in 8 hours.
Duration of closure will be 4.3 hours estimated.
Hello Folks,
If you've gotten this far, then you may have gotten the impression that I
was trying to simulate the kind of activity a pilot may have to deal with
as he enters a system. I have a friend who works at the Buffalo
International Airport, and got a glimpse of his activities as he responded
to pilot's request for weather updates. I got to thinking "too bad we
can't apply that to solar system travel". After I thought of that, I
wondered about solar flares and the need to enter some form of fallout
shelter. As it stands now, GURPS gives a radiation protection value for
those ships with any kind of armor value. But the fun thing (if you can
call it that) is the fact that spacers will be routinely exposed to such
radiation. For those captains who like to get free fuel refils for their
ship at Gas giants, will find themselves being subjected to 30 rads (.3
Gray's) per minute while inside the radiation belts. For a ship with a DR
of 100, its radiation protection value is such that it reduces felt
radiation by 1/10th. Thus, in a radiation belt of a Jupiter like gas
giant, a spacer will absorb 3 Rads of radiation per minute while inside the
ship. If the spacer has a yard of water between him and the planet's
belts, his protection factor increases such that only 1/80th of the
radiation will penetrate. This means that the spacer will absorb some .375
rads per minute while shielded behind the water tank. Wearing a vac suit
that is armored to DR 100 will also protect said spacer such that if he hid
inside the ship wearing the suit, he'd take 1/100th of expected radiation.
For those who wonder - I fully intend to give my players the fun of
experiencing such "local weather" as time progresses. (side note: from
what I read from other sources, a massive solar flare is a one in a year
event for our sun)
Note: according to GURPS COMPENDIUM II, the radiation level from a solar
flare at earth's radius from the sun is listed as being 15 rads per minute.
Using the rule that radiation diminishes with the square of the distance,
the following holds true:
.1 AU experiences 1500 Rads per minute
.2 AU experiences 375 Rads per minute
.3 AU experiences 167 Rads per minute
.4 AU experiences 94 Rads per minute
.5 AU experiences 60 Rads per minute
.6 AU experiences 42 Rads per minute
.7 AU experiences 31 Rads per minute
.8 AU experiences 23 Rads per minute
.9 AU experiences 19 Rads per minute
1.0 AU experiences 15 Rads per minute
1.5 AU experiences 7 Rads per minute
2.0 AU experiences 4 Rads per minute
2.5 AU experiences 2 Rads per minute
3.0 AU experiences 1.7 Rads per minute
3.5 AU experiences 1.2 Rads per minute
4.0 AU experiences 0.9 Rads per minute
This table is based on Rads per minute = 1/(dist in AU)^2 where Rads per
minute = 15 at 1 AU. I do not know how to determine radiation distances
from Jupiter. I suspect that instead of using the AU as the distance unit,
it would be some smaller, more "local" unit.
Hal
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 19:07:35 -0400
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
Subject: Phoenix from the ashes
Immediately after I get out the word that Tod Glenn has created a list at
travellercentral.com, I find I'm once again receiving messages from the
IENT list. I'm very happy about this - IENT has served us well, and I
believe in loyalty.
BUT: I also believe in keeping a community together. In the case of an
e-community, that means that communication needs to be re-established when
it breaks down. This did not happen during the just-ended week-long outage
of the TML.
I've gotten mail from other sources that indicate that this was due to
either a move or an upgrade at IENT. There even seems to have been talk of
there having been an announcement that it _would_ be going down having been
sent out beforehand.
The sources discussing the issue seem to have been forwarded to lists I
subscribe to in response to my post announcing Tod's list.
The last messages I got from the TML before it went down was Digest
#1999.3830, on March 28, which said nothing about any impending downtime.
Nor had anything been said prior to that. The first digest I got today
(4/4) was #1999.3831 - and there appears to have been some activity in
between those two digests which was lost to me - and to how many other
subscribers?
It seems that Rob Miracle, who was the maintainer of the List, no longer
works for IENT. I don't seem to recall hearing this until shadowcat told
me last night [Tues] in IRC when I went to get the word out there about
Tod's list.
Nobody that I am aware of wanted to abandon or bail from the IENT list -
yet I find that that is the assumption that has been made in response to my
posting announcing Tod's list - simply because I referred to 'the apparent
demise of the list at IENT'. Note that word, 'apparent'.
FERCHRISSAKES, WHAT THE HELL WAS I - OR ANYBODY - SUPPOSED TO ASSUME WHEN
THERE WAS DEAD SILENCE, BOUNCES, AND NO FRIGGING INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT WAS
_REALLY_ GOING ON?
I'm not happy about this. It makes me, Tod, and anyone who helped us try
to preserve the community look disloyal or otherwise bad.
I do this for fun - I have no 'vested interest' in seeing things happen one
way versus another; if it stops being fun, I'm outta here. But I get
treated like a mushroom enough by my employer. It's not a good feeling to
find that I've been treated like a mushroom - even if unintentionally - by
my _friends_.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
(ILink: news without the abuse. Ask via email.)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 19:17:38 -0400
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
Subject: Addendum to 'Phoenix'
Let me make it explicit: After reading more of the returned TML, I DO NOT
BLAME ROB FOR THE OUTAGE. At _most_, I might have a grumble that he didn't
grab a copy of the listaddresses before it went down and send us all email
letting us know - but even that is forgiveable under what appears to be the
circumstances.
I am more distressed at having not heard anything than I am about the
outage - and still more distressed at the reaction to the efforts of Tod
and myself to keep the _community_ together, wherever it might find it
necessary/desirable to be.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
(ILink: news without the abuse. Ask via email.)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 19:22:18 -0400
From: Rob Miracle <rmiracle@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: TML 2.0
> >So, no matter what the new home is, it's clear to me that it needs one.
>
>I suggest we keep Tod strongly in mind as a backup and see what happens.
I have officially handed the reigns to Tod. The new list will be the
official one and I will turn off the iEN one in two weeks.
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 19:57:04 -0400
From: Rob Miracle <rmiracle@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Phoenix from the ashes
At 07:07 PM 4/4/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>FERCHRISSAKES, WHAT THE HELL WAS I - OR ANYBODY - SUPPOSED TO ASSUME WHEN
>THERE WAS DEAD SILENCE, BOUNCES, AND NO FRIGGING INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT WAS
>_REALLY_ GOING ON?
>
>I'm not happy about this. It makes me, Tod, and anyone who helped us try
>to preserve the community look disloyal or otherwise bad.
Jeff, I was laid off from iEN on 12/15. I've taken my part time photo
business and turned it into a full time job. I'm working easily 14 hours a
day, 7 days a week. Business is going well.
I have no hostilities towards iEN as my wife still works there. But I'm
out of the system loop now and I have ZERO say about what goes on.
iEN had to move their offices and data center (separate location) at the
same time (leases expiring, etc.) iEN had a priority to get their cash
earning machines up first before non-essential hardware.
I knew the move was going on as it was effecting my wife. I've been in and
out of the offices numerous times so I knew the move was coming, I just
didn't have a specific date.
The important thing is I'm too busy to have thought about notifying the TML
until it was too late. I figured they would only be down a day or so but
it took longer.
I let the list down. I take 100% of the responsiblity.
Should you be loyal to the iEN list? I appreciate it, but I've handed the
reigns to Tod and his list will become the official list as soon as
everyone subscribes. In two weeks, I'm going to have iEN turn off their
list. tml@travellercenteral.com is now the official list.
I encourage everyone to give Tod the same support you've given me. Keep
things civil and on topic the best you can. I'm going to stay on the list
for a while, at least until I find the time to inventory my books and offer
them up for sale. I don't have time to play any more and really haven't
had for years.
Tod's the man now, so lets make the new TML as strong as the iEN one was
and the previous hosts of it as well.
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 17:04:57 -0700
From: XipCodes <xip@xipcodes.com>
Subject: Re: Addendum to 'Phoenix'
> Let me make it explicit: After reading more of the returned TML, I DO NOT
> BLAME ROB FOR THE OUTAGE. At _most_, I might have a grumble that he didn't
> grab a copy of the listaddresses before it went down and send us all email
> letting us know - but even that is forgiveable under what appears to be the
> circumstances.
>
> I am more distressed at having not heard anything than I am about the
> outage - and still more distressed at the reaction to the efforts of Tod
> and myself to keep the _community_ together, wherever it might find it
> necessary/desirable to be.
> --
> Jeff Zeitlin
> jzeitlin@cyburban.com
> (ILink: news without the abuse. Ask via email.)
Not having received any posting from the former list I also assumed
something disastrous happened. I was also willing to wait and see.
Unfortunately I did not receive news about the new list until today.
I commend Tod et. al. for stepping up to fill the gap. I just wish I had
heard about it sooner. I think it's more favorable to keep the community
going and alive rather than make some rather nasty assumptions, from what
I've been reading, about who is or is not responsible for this or that.
I have seen to many e-communities fall abort and disappear through some
sense of "We can't go anywhere else, we've always been here" mentality.
To the previous list hosts, I say, thanks for all your hard work.
To the new list hosts, I say, I'm ready when you are
The list is where the people are.
Bill
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 17:06:05 -0700
From: XipCodes <xip@xipcodes.com>
Subject: Re: Phoenix from the ashes
Not having received any posting from the former list I also assumed
something disastrous happened. I was also willing to wait and see.
Unfortunately I did not receive news about the new list until today.
I commend Tod et. al. for stepping up to fill the gap. I just wish I had
heard about it sooner. I think it's more favorable to keep the community
going and alive rather than make some rather nasty assumptions, from what
I've been reading, about who is or is not responsible for this or that.
I have seen to many e-communities fall apart and disappear through some
sense of "We can't go anywhere else, we've always been here" mentality.
To the previous list hosts, I say, thanks for all your hard work.
To the new list hosts, I say, I'm ready when you are
The list is where the people are.
Bill
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 17:18:00 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Addendum to 'Phoenix'
Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
> I am more distressed at having not heard anything than I am about the
> outage - and still more distressed at the reaction to the efforts of Tod
> and myself to keep the _community_ together, wherever it might find it
> necessary/desirable to be.
As a systems admin who has worked places that had a sysadmin turnover
it's entirely possible for these things (and larger things, like the
CEO's vast cache of email and address books <shudder...thank Ghod for
backups!>) to get lost in the shuffle, especially when, as seems to be
the case, the entire company is undergoing a reorganization, move, etc.
Basically, someone oopsed it at ient.com, and forgot there _was_ a TML.
Not surprising since it was, after all, a charity, more or less, having
little to do with their main line of business, that Rob had wangled back
when he was working for them.
There has been a great deal of confusion caused by the sudden silence,
the creation of the new list followed by the near-simultaneous
reappearance of the old one.
Coupled with the asynchronous nature of mailing list communications, and
5-day caching of sent mail by most servers, means there will be a lot of
weird messages bouncing around here for the next few days. Confusion
will reign, but remain calm, the crew actually is in control ;-)
As has been worked out by the _admins_ involved, Traveller Central is to
be the new home for the TML. This is good for the TML; it's found a new
home at a Traveller-oriented site, and as an active member as listmom.
(Why are they, regardless of gender, always called 'listmoms'?)
Loren has _every_ right to be gun shy about these sudden 'rumored
demise' kinda things, as that will dredge up Bad Times for him, but
while there was considerable communications floating about as alternates
to the list were explored, it certainly didn't reach everyone, or if it
did, reached us in incomplete and disogranized manner...such is the
nature of these kinds of ad hoc efforts.
There actually was a very concerted effort by a number of list members
to regain and reorganize contact.
(This is in contrast to most lists I know of which would flounder for a
couple of weeks until we all realized that there _was_ something
wrong...)
ObTrav: The XBoats and any other starships have not arrived in system
for two weeks...what do you do?
For everyone else, well, we'll just put it down to jump emergence
disorientation...
"Whoa! Where am I and what are these potted petunias doing here?" ;-)
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 18:24:12 -0800
From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: List and activity
At 04:38 PM 04/04/01, you wrote:
>It appears the list is back and up. I know I just subscribed to the new list
>at www.travellercentral.com but it appears the mail servers are set up at
>IENT.
Yes, but the old TML will be going down in two weeks. The new TML is the
official one.
>Mike "still lammenting over not being given a newbie essay" <sigh>
Discuss: The logistics of operating a small business that does business on
several planets. As we've just seen, even a minor communications failure
can cause extreme disruption, so how do you handle it when the minimum
response time is two weeks?
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
TML Great Old One, The Keeper of Penguins
Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse
Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 12:41:14 +1000
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re : Screen grabs (was re : Starship Bridge Artwork)
Force feedback for holographic controls?
A problem for the science of haptics the day after tomorrow.
I'd go with the glove/gauntlet jobbie.
Eric Freitas wrote :-
> As a step further, professionals could get surgery to have a tactile
> implant placed in each hand.
<snip>
As written, it's vulnerable to EMP and subversion attempts. Someone could
hack into my hand implants and apply bilateral carotid pressure for the
required number of minutes, say.
> This higher power is needed to run the digital signal processors
> that synthesize the new nerve signals.
Why? Power consumption should be negligible (microwatts, basal, a few
milliwatts at peak).
We're only shooting a train of action potentials down a nerve trunk or two.
I agree with you about the probable tech level required, even if it's a bit
of a dodgy 'ware.
But the OTU diverges from the real world in many ways...
Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 00:13:58 EDT
From: Spm073@aol.com
Subject: unsubscribe
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 07:50:10 +0300 (EET DST)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: Re: Controls
On Mon, 2 Apr 2001, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> In mail you write:
> > On Tue, 27 Mar 2001 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> >> down you have no sensors. Also, it seems only reasonable that
> >> jump calculations are not something humans can do in any sort of
> >> reasonable time frame.
> > Hey, this contradicts canon!
> > The computers on most ships are some TL 7-8. (Depends on the version, of
> > course. B-) These compare to modern calculators, so probably the
> > calculations are possible, with pen and paper...
> Excuse me, but I've *worked* with 1960s & 70s era mainframes. They can
> do a lot more than a cacluator...
Sorry. B-)
Of course, this depends on the calculator...
Hm, seems I remembered the dates incorrectly, I had huge relay-machines in
mind. Which were outdated since long before the sixties...
- --
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 00:14:09 -0500
From: "David Murray" <murray13@home.com>
Subject: MPGN backup
I initiated a FULL backup of 'Traveller' at MPGN. It is quite large.
If anyone has a permanent repository for it, or if anyone needs any part
of it, please don't hesitate to contact me directly.
I have been a reader of the list since back when x-boat was still
active, just don't actively send very often. That's why most (all)
won't recognize me.
Hello to all.
I'm sure someone else probably has a copy of this stuff somewhere, but
I'm not willing to take the chance that something will get lost.
Traveller WILL live forever!
Dave Murray
murray13@home.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 13:49:22 -0500
From: Glenn Grant <neo@total.net>
Subject: Ping
Can someone e-mail me off-list if you get this? I haven't received a
TML in days.
Best,
+ GMG +
- --
------------------------Glenn Grant------------------------
<neo@total.net>
"The surest sign that there is intelligent life elsewhere in
the universe is that they have never attempted to contact us."
--Bill Watterson, _Calvin & Hobbes_
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3833
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3834
Date: | 4/5/01 9:58:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Friday, April 6 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3834
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
How to build a Jump Drive - part 5
RE: How to build a Jump Drive - part 5
RE: How to build a Jump Drive - part 5
Re: Ping
Empress Marava galley
Re: How to build a Jump Drive - part 5
FW: What happened to the TML (global message)
Re: How to build a Jump Drive - part 5
word about the list going down
word about the list going down
Re: Traveller-digest & Attn: Tod Glenn
Re: Traveller-digest & Attn: Tod Glenn
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3833
[www] 01 Apr 2001 - Freelance Traveller Updated
Re: Empress Marava galley
Re: Space Weather Advisory
Re: Controls
Re: MPGN backup
Re: MPGN backup
(no subject)
RE: (no subject)
unsubscribe
RE: unsubscribe
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 17:00:34 +1000
From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au
Subject: How to build a Jump Drive - part 5
Well, that last post pretty much completes the story about how to build your
very own functional jump
drive.
What did everyone think?
Graeme
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 16:19:21 +1000
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au>
Subject: RE: How to build a Jump Drive - part 5
Brilliant, absolutley brilliant... but I am having a little trouble with
what you said in part one... could you go over it again?
- -----Original Message-----
From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au [mailto:Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au]
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 5:01 PM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: How to build a Jump Drive - part 5
Well, that last post pretty much completes the story about how to build
your
very own functional jump
drive.
What did everyone think?
Graeme
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 07:41:03 +0100
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: How to build a Jump Drive - part 5
LOL Bravo!
Dean
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au [mailto:Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au]
> Sent: 05 April 2001 08:01
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: How to build a Jump Drive - part 5
>
>
>
>
> Well, that last post pretty much completes the story about
> how to build your
> very own functional jump
> drive.
>
> What did everyone think?
>
> Graeme
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 02:58:13 -0400
From: Glenn Grant <neo@total.net>
Subject: Re: Ping
Re: my previous post in which I said:
>Can someone e-mail me off-list if you get this? I haven't received a
>TML in days.
That was about six days ago. Safe to assume you can ignore it.
Now, let the cry go up: "THE TML IS DEAD! LONG LIVE THE NEW TML!"
Many thanks for Rob Miracle for all his labors for the list over the
years. So, ya slipped up and didn't warn us in advance; no biggie.
I wish you every success with the photo biz.
Thanks also to Jeff Z., Todd, and others for reacting effectively to
the hiatus, setting up the new list and getting the word out. Bravo!
See ya'll on the New TML,
+ GMG +
- --
Glenn Grant <neo@total.net>
"How come if we can send a man to the Moon,
we can't send a man to the Moon anymore?"
--Cmdr Rick, _Prisoners of Gravity_
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 09:09:29 +0100
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: Empress Marava galley
Just a quickie...
Has anyone determined where the galley on the Empress Marava class Free
Trader is?
Supplement 7: Traders and Gunboats say it's in the Upper lounge (space #26)
but that's quite a big area. Has any gaming group or deck plan fiend
established an actual position for it?
How much 'space' would a galley take:?
tc
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 02:07:12 -0700
From: "Pronto" <pronto_r031@telus.net>
Subject: Re: How to build a Jump Drive - part 5
>
>
> Well, that last post pretty much completes the story about how to build
your
> very own functional jump
> drive.
>
> What did everyone think?
>
> Graeme
>
>
I missed part 4, could you resend?
:)
Pronto
AKA Brian Taylor
Next year, at Burning Man!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 10:19:52 +0100
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: FW: What happened to the TML (global message)
Steve Ferguson wrote:
> No posts - where has everyone gone?
Oops, missed one. :-(
Here's the story ...
Message 1 from Rob Miracle (list mom):
> iEN is moving their servers to a new location. The list box is
> probably one of the last ones they will bring up. Since I no
> longer work there I knew the move was coming but they didn't
> notify me of a date, so I sit and wait with baited anticipation.
Message 2 from Rob Miracle (list mom):
> I talked to iENT, they are estimating next week to get those
> boxes moved. I'm going to do a couple of things to see if I
> can get message out to the list.
With the temporary(?) loss of the old TML servers at iEnt, Tod
Glenn has set up a new TML server at tml@travellercentral.com.
Many existing TMLers were automatically added to this new server
but the available membership lists are quite old. Therefore some
people may have been missed, while others were added erroneously.
To alter your status either use the web form at
http://www.travellercentral.com, or send an email to
majordomo@travellercentral.com with
subscribe tml
or
unsubscribe tml
in the BODY of the message as appropriate.
Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 08:00:32 -0400
From: knightsky@juno.com
Subject: Re: How to build a Jump Drive - part 5
Oh, you're cruel ;-)
On Thu, 5 Apr 2001 17:00:34 +1000 Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au writes:
>
>
> Well, that last post pretty much completes the story about how to
> build your
> very own functional jump
> drive.
>
> What did everyone think?
>
> Graeme
>
>
Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 07:07:20 -0500
From: "Shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net>
Subject: word about the list going down
uhmmm... Jeff, I didnt say anything about Rob no longer working at
IENT, not sure who did actually... I did pass the word to Loren and
heard back the next morning on that.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 07:07:42 -0500
From: "Shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net>
Subject: word about the list going down
uhmmm... Jeff, I didnt say anything about Rob no longer working at
IENT, not sure who did actually... I did pass the word to Loren and
heard back the next morning on that.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 09:08:28 EDT
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest & Attn: Tod Glenn
In a message dated 05-Apr-01 12:45:32 AM Central Daylight Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:
> No need to apologize. Its as much my fault because I knew the move was
> coming and I wasn't pro-active enough. This is why I think its time to
> hand the reigns over. I can't have a screwup like this leave you guys
> hanging in the cold for a week.
>
> I want you to go to the new list.....
>
> Rob
That would seem to settle things, doesn't it.
I've signed up under GDWgames@aol.com.
ATTN TOD: Can you arrange for me to be able to post using lkw@io.com in
addition to gdwgames@aol.com? I don't need to get digests at both addresses,
but I'd like to be able to post from both.
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 06:23:38 -0700
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest & Attn: Tod Glenn
on 4/5/01 6:08 AM, GDWGAMES@aol.com at GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> That would seem to settle things, doesn't it.
>
> I've signed up under GDWgames@aol.com.
>
> ATTN TOD: Can you arrange for me to be able to post using lkw@io.com in
> addition to gdwgames@aol.com? I don't need to get digests at both addresses,
> but I'd like to be able to post from both.
>
> LKW
>
certainly.
Give me a day to figure out how to keep you from getting 2 digests.
Tod
- --
"There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern.
They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."
-Daniel Webster
- --
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org
http://www.grandsurvey.com
http://travellerguns.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 10:38:38 -0400
From: Jonathan McDermott <caraig@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3833
>Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 17:18:00 -0700
>From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
>Subject: Re: Addendum to 'Phoenix'
>ObTrav: The XBoats and any other starships have not arrived in system
>for two weeks...what do you do?
<music="Kryptonite" by Three Doors Down>
If I go missing then will you still send out those x-boats?
If I'm alive and well then will you be there, giving us hope?
They'll keep the list alive with their merely human might.
No Long Night....
</music>
A public thanks to Rob Miracle for all his work in the past as ListMom, and
to Tod and TravCentral for being the new 'keepers of the flame.'
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:49:58 -0400
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
Subject: [www] 01 Apr 2001 - Freelance Traveller Updated
Reposted to both TMLs, since the IENT one went down before the last posting
appeared...
Freelance Traveller, the Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller® Resource has
posted its most recent update to http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller and
http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/.
No, it's not a joke - we really are posting a serious update on this date.
In this update:
- Some minor corrections and additions to Ken Pick's article on naming
ships.
- One more website has been reviewed in LinkLooks.
- Chapter fourteen of _The_Hostile_Stars_, Fred Ramen's ongoing serial
story, has been posted to Raconteur's Rest.
- Updates to the FAQ and published product lists in the Information Center
to reflect recent SJGames production.
- Additional web links for Traveller on the Internet
* Please note that "Default.htm" is no longer required when accessing
* Freelance Traveller's home page, and will no longer work - please update
* your bookmarks, shortcuts, and references appropriately.
Your questions, comments, and ideas are always welcome at Freelance
Traveller. Please write to freelancetraveller@yahoo.com with any and all
of them, as we are in the process of reconfiguring the forms, and they may
be temporarily disabled. Freelance Traveller depends on the good will of
Traveller fans both to visit our site and justify our existence, and to
write for us, making our existence possible.
Freelance Traveller is mirrored at http://w3.execnet.com/jeffz.
Freelance Traveller wishes to extend its thanks and appreciation to The
Traveller Downport (http://www.downport.com) and to Executive Network
Information Systems (http://www.execnet.com) for hosting services. Without
organizations willing to cooperate with Freelance Traveller's ever-growing
needs, we would be unable to bring you the articles and other resources
that have made Freelance Traveller one of the premier Traveller sites on
the 'net.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
(ILink: news without the abuse. Ask via email.)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:56:48 -0500
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Empress Marava galley
At 09:09 AM 4/5/2001 +0100, you wrote:
>Just a quickie...
>
>Has anyone determined where the galley on the Empress Marava class Free
>Trader is?
>
>Supplement 7: Traders and Gunboats say it's in the Upper lounge (space #26)
>but that's quite a big area. Has any gaming group or deck plan fiend
>established an actual position for it?
>
>How much 'space' would a galley take:?
>
>
>tc
According to the Seeker deckplans, it looks like it is probably on
the wall directly across from the air/raft.
Jimmy Simpson
nimrodd@mail.com
"The avalanche has already started.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
-Kosh Naranek (Babylon 5)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 11:49:40 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Space Weather Advisory
In mail you write:
> Welcome to Sorel System Space. The sun has been moderate in its activity.
> Debris has been spotted in sector 4 moving at 3.2 klicks per second.
> Channel 431.5 contains continuous loop data on this navigational hazard.
> Approach vector pos89 has been closed off due to a megafreighter's transit.
> Pos89 will be cleared for traffic in 4 hours. Meanwhile, sector 5 is due
> to be closed for convoy activity in 8 hours. Duration of closure will be
> 4.3 hours estimated.
Given that space is 3 dimensional, and that even with the sort of
manuever drives found in Traveller, courses will be affected by
gravity, the specs for locations are apt to be more complex.
At a *minimum* it requires two angles and a distance to specify a
point. Basicly, angle in the reference plane, angle *from* the
reference plane, and distance from the central reference point.
Or you can use X, Ym and Z co-ordinates.
Specifying unpowered orbits requires *7* parameters:
Semi-major axis of orbit (size)
Eccentricity of orbit (shape)
Inclination of orbit plane to reference plane
Longitude of the ascending node (which way the orbit is inclined)
Those 4 give the orbit, the next three give *where* in the orbit the
body is:
Period (how long it takes to complete the orbit)
Argument of peripoint (ie when it makes closest approach)
There's another one, but I can't recall what it is at the moment.
Or, you can give the X, Y, and Z co-ordinates, the velocity vector in
each of the X, Y, and Z axes, and the time at which the data was true.
A computer can "easily" convert one into the other.
> NEW ALERT: monitoring stations indicate magnetic flux activity over the
> north polar orbit of Sorel's Sun.
"North pole" or "north polar region". "North polar orbit" is nonsense,
since any "polar" *orbit* goes over *both* poles.
> Estimated time to solar flare is 27
> minutes from 13:40. Duration estimated at 4 hours. Radiation output
> estimated at .1 Gray per minute. Sorel Starport Authority recommends all
> individuals seek radiation shelters within the next 15 minutes. Solar
> flare predictions are accurate to +/- 33%.
Don't forget to allow for not merely speed of light lag (it's 8 minutes
from the earth to the sun), but also for the fact that the high energy
protons that are the hazard travel *slower* than light. It can be an
hour or more before the radaition level in Earth orbit climbs.
And the flare radiation is somewhat *directional* only some parts of
the system will be affected.
> For those who wonder - I fully intend to give my players the fun of
> experiencing such "local weather" as time progresses. (side note: from
> what I read from other sources, a massive solar flare is a one in a year
> event for our sun)
But lesser flares are more frequent. And flare activity tends to follow
the 11 year sunspot cycle.
Keep in mind that different types of stars will have different levels
of flare activity, as well as different "cycles".
> Note: according to GURPS COMPENDIUM II, the radiation level from a solar
> flare at earth's radius from the sun is listed as being 15 rads per minute.
I think if you dig into things, you'll find that the levels vary
*greatly*. As in by *several* orders of magnitude.
> This table is based on Rads per minute = 1/(dist in AU)^2 where Rads per
> minute = 15 at 1 AU. I do not know how to determine radiation distances
> from Jupiter. I suspect that instead of using the AU as the distance unit,
> it would be some smaller, more "local" unit.
No, because the hazard there is *trapped* particles in the planetary
magnetic field, rather like Earth's Van Allen belts, only more so.
So the levels will depend on what part of the belts you are in. And
drop off the farther you get from the "center" of the belt. Which is a
toroidal region encircling Jupiter.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 13:44:32 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Controls
In mail you write:
> On Mon, 2 Apr 2001, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> In mail you write:
>> > On Tue, 27 Mar 2001 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>> >> down you have no sensors. Also, it seems only reasonable that
>> >> jump calculations are not something humans can do in any sort of
>> >> reasonable time frame.
>> > Hey, this contradicts canon!
>> > The computers on most ships are some TL 7-8. (Depends on the version, of
>> > course. B-) These compare to modern calculators, so probably the
>> > calculations are possible, with pen and paper...
>> Excuse me, but I've *worked* with 1960s & 70s era mainframes. They can
>> do a lot more than a cacluator...
>
> Sorry. B-)
>
> Of course, this depends on the calculator...
>
> Hm, seems I remembered the dates incorrectly, I had huge relay-machines in
> mind. Which were outdated since long before the sixties...
Relay logic was used for *control* systems. It's too slow for any real
calculations.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 14:11:18 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: MPGN backup
In mail you write:
> I initiated a FULL backup of 'Traveller' at MPGN. It is quite large.
> If anyone has a permanent repository for it, or if anyone needs any part
> of it, please don't hesitate to contact me directly.
How big is it? If nothing else, I can grab it at work and store it on a
Jaz cartridge.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 18:23:04 -0400
From: Rob Miracle <rmiracle@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: MPGN backup
Someone should also grab all the old AD&D files and such from there. Its
the old Greyhawk archive that was booted off of a college site years ago.
Rob
At 02:11 PM 4/5/2001 -0800, you wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
> > I initiated a FULL backup of 'Traveller' at MPGN. It is quite large.
> > If anyone has a permanent repository for it, or if anyone needs any part
> > of it, please don't hesitate to contact me directly.
>
>How big is it? If nothing else, I can grab it at work and store it on a
>Jaz cartridge.
>
>--
>Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
> shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 19:00:28 EDT
From: ComputerFoolish@aol.com
Subject: (no subject)
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 17:50:13 -0700
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3835
Date: | 4/7/01 11:22:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Sunday, April 8 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3835
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Farewell & Goodbye to TML
Re: Empress Marava galley
Verge sector canon references/history
UK Traveller Convention !!
RE: Verge sector canon references/history
Fleet size and composition
Re: Fleet size and composition
[www] 06 Apr 2001 - Traveller Mailing List Special Alert
subscribe
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 17:42:07 +1000
From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au
Subject: Farewell & Goodbye to TML
I'd like to echo the sentiments of everyone on the list in thanking
both Rob Miracle for his work maintaining the list at ient, as well
as Tod Glenn from Travcentral for taking over the reins.
The TML and its members have been a constant joy to me. I thank you
that you have made this daily contact of our group of Traveller fans
possible.
I've subscribed to the new list, but somehow, I just can't bring myself
to unsub from the old. I'm just sentimental, I guess.
Farewell & Goodbye to the old TML.
Hello and Welcome to the new.
Graeme
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 23:42:28 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net>
Subject: Re: Empress Marava galley
Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk wrote
> Has anyone determined where the galley on the Empress Marava class Free
> Trader is?
> Supplement 7: Traders and Gunboats say it's in the Upper lounge (space #26)
> but that's quite a big area. Has any gaming group or deck plan fiend
> established an actual position for it?
> How much 'space' would a galley take:?
That depends on how big you want it to be. See T4's FFS2 for
details on galley sizes.
One displacement ton is about 500 cubic feet. A one ton galley
could be 5' x 10' x 10' or about 8' x 8' x 8'. I usually figure
that the galley takes up about 5-10% of the total stateroom space
and comes out of that space. The galley space does not include
any dedicated dining space but about 1 or 2 people per DT could
eat there if someone else wasn't preparing food at the same time.
I usually try to run a galley up against a wall so that it does
not block passage space although this does result in a less
efficient workspace.
For example a typical type S Scout has 16 tons of living space.
So it's galley (including food storage for 2 weeks food for a four
people) is somewhere between 0.8 ton and 1.6 ton. IMTU Type S Scout
ships have 1 dt galley's in the lower starboard corner of the
common area.
The Empress Marava has ten staterooms (40 tons) so I figure that
it has 2-4 tons of galley space. I figure that it probably has
about 3 Dt's of galley space, 2 dt (4 squares) on the aft of the
forward upper deck (area 26 on the blueprints) directly left of
the elevator shaft and 1 DT on the lower deck in area 5. The two
galleys are more or less directly above one another to save work
on the plumbing. This does mean that a 'lucky' hit in combat can
take out the entire food supply. :)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 07:26:49 -0400
From: "Michael Daumen" <daumen@mindspring.com>
Subject: Verge sector canon references/history
Does anyone recall/know of any canon references (other than system names)
for events/places in the Verge Sector? Also, would anyone care to speculate
the extent of Aslan predation during the border wars or now?
Thanks!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 13:02:24 +0100
From: "Charles Nicholas Walker" <cnw@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: UK Traveller Convention !!
Travellercon 2001
Place
Salem Community Centre.
Central Street.
(Beside the Co-op),
Hebden Bridge.
West Yorkshire.
UK
HX7-6HB.
Date April 28th and 29th 2001.
Times April 28th from 10am until 11pm
April 29th from 10am until 6pm
Admission...............................Free, and all welcome,
(but I reserve the right to eject anybody from the convention for
misbehaviour)
There is a map and hotel details on the list home page under files and or
databases thanks to Derrick
if you need to contact me my home phone number is 01484 845476 evenings and
my mobile number is 0779 6920635 however since I work in a call Centre the
mobile is normally turned off
See you all there
Nick
There is a mailing list for the convention at
Addresses:
Post message: Travelleruk@egroups.com
Subscribe: Travelleruk-subscribe@egroups.com
Unsubscribe: Travelleruk-unsubscribe@egroups.com
List owner: Travelleruk-owner@egroups.com
URL to this page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Travelleruk
Hope to see you There........all new blood welcome
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 13:37:26 +0100
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Verge sector canon references/history
Aslan Predation...on what...sentients? Is that some kind of Sollie slander?
Dean
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Daumen [mailto:daumen@mindspring.com]
> Sent: 06 April 2001 12:27
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Verge sector canon references/history
>
>
> Does anyone recall/know of any canon references (other than
> system names)
> for events/places in the Verge Sector? Also, would anyone
> care to speculate
> the extent of Aslan predation during the border wars or now?
>
> Thanks!
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 14:50:42 -0400
From: ringrose@ascent.com
Subject: Fleet size and composition
I'm running a TNE game, departing from canon in ways which aren't important
to this question.
A reasonably populated TL9 planet is about to be attacked by a few Virus
ships, and I need to determine the size and composition of its fleet.
They've managed to keep a few pre-Virus ships functional, as well as the
highport, and built some of their own at TL9 with the occasional recovered
bit of technology.
I'm trying to get a decent sense of scale here. How many military ships
would one expect a planetary economy to be able to support? What would be
a reasonable mix of ships? And what other planetary defenses would you
expect? Anyone out there enough of a gearhead that they want to give me a
hand here? I'm not picky about individual details, since much of the
combat will be handwaved as the players frantically try to get out of the
area. But I'd like to be able to come up with at least general ship
capabilities for future reference.
Then I get to try to make an attacking fleet which will lose, but certainly
give the defenders a run for the money. The attackers have to be Jump 2
capable, but can use higher tech. I'd prefer as few jump 2 capable vessels
as possible in the attacking force - ships designed to carry several others
through jump (this limit is for in-game reasons; as far as practicality
goes, it is what Virus has).
General comments to the list are fine, but if you actually come up with
anything detailed please contact me directly (ringrose@ascent.com) so as to
avoid cluttering the list.
- Robert Ringrose
ringrose@ascent.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 11:31:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fleet size and composition
From Path of Tears Pgs. 95-97:
Total Number of Personnel in the Space Force:
Balkanized World:
Starport Balkanized World Non-Balkanized World
A 0.1% 0.025% of population
B 0.08% 0.020%
C 0.06% 0.015%
D 0.04% 0.010%
E 0.02% 0.005%
X -- --
"The space force has one combatant for every 500 personnel. Combatants
included purpose-designed warships. In large services (with more than
30,000 personnel), roughly half of the personnel will serve on major
combatnats, and there will be one in service for every 1500 personnel
serving with them. Major combatnats are ships of 1000 dons
displacement or more. The balance of the force will provide crews for
regular combatants. in small services, with fewer than 5000 personnel,
part or all of the personnel may man armed merchant craft. One armed
merchant craft will be in service for every 250 personnel manning
them."
"Space force is usually Experienced unless from a world with a tech
level of 8 or less, in which case it is almost always Novice."
- --- ringrose@ascent.com wrote:
>
> I'm running a TNE game, departing from canon in ways which aren't
> important
> to this question.
>
> A reasonably populated TL9 planet is about to be attacked by a few
> Virus
> ships, and I need to determine the size and composition of its fleet.
> They've managed to keep a few pre-Virus ships functional, as well as
> the
> highport, and built some of their own at TL9 with the occasional
> recovered
> bit of technology.
>
> I'm trying to get a decent sense of scale here. How many military
> ships
> would one expect a planetary economy to be able to support? What
> would be
> a reasonable mix of ships? And what other planetary defenses would
> you
> expect? Anyone out there enough of a gearhead that they want to give
> me a
> hand here? I'm not picky about individual details, since much of the
> combat will be handwaved as the players frantically try to get out of
> the
> area. But I'd like to be able to come up with at least general ship
> capabilities for future reference.
>
>
> Then I get to try to make an attacking fleet which will lose, but
> certainly
> give the defenders a run for the money. The attackers have to be
> Jump 2
> capable, but can use higher tech. I'd prefer as few jump 2 capable
> vessels
> as possible in the attacking force - ships designed to carry several
> others
> through jump (this limit is for in-game reasons; as far as
> practicality
> goes, it is what Virus has).
>
>
> General comments to the list are fine, but if you actually come up
> with
> anything detailed please contact me directly (ringrose@ascent.com) so
> as to
> avoid cluttering the list.
>
> - Robert Ringrose
> ringrose@ascent.com
>
>
=====
Gerry Harris
**********************************************************************************************
Æther Traveller — http://www.aethertraveller.com
Soldier's Companion — http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html
**********************************************************************************************
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war" — Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1
**********************************************************************************************
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 17:55:38 -0400
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
Subject: [www] 06 Apr 2001 - Traveller Mailing List Special Alert
The Traveller Mailing List is moving. Over the next week, the list will
move from its current home at iEn (lists.ient.com) to its new home at
travellercentral.com. This announcement is intended to highlight this rapid
move, and to note that this change is already reflected in "Traveller on
the Internet" at Freelance Traveller's Information Center.
Our thanks are extended to iEn and Rob Miracle for hosting the list for so
many years, and to Tod Glenn and travellercentral.com for what we hope will
be many more years of the premiere Traveller on-line community.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
Freelance Traveller - The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller® Resource
http://come.to/freelancetraveller
http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 22:16:50 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net>
Subject: subscribe
subscribe digest
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3835
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3836
Date: | 4/10/01 10:25:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Tuesday, April 10 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3836
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
RE: subscribe
new TML
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3835
Fwd: Starting The Game Days Again
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 10:23:02 +0100
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: subscribe
Hi Peter
The TML has moved to traveller central. The new Listmom is Tod Glenn (
webmaster@travellercentral.com )
Dean
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Newman [mailto:pnewman@gci.net]
> Sent: 08 April 2001 07:17
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: subscribe
>
>
> subscribe digest
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 15:13:34 +0400
From: Andrew Long <andylong@emirates.net.ae>
Subject: new TML
This is what I get for going away for seven days. The universe changes out from underfoot. Damn. Blast. More profanity.
And we're already up to digest #99 for *&^ sake!
I didn't make it into the automatic re-subscription. How old is the list that was used, 'cos I've been subscribed for several years now, at a variety of addresses (most of them still being monitored, one way or another) - a thought; is there a difference between the 'list' and the 'digest'? I've always been a digester.
Is there a FTP site for archived digests yet?
regards, Andy Long
==================================================
Andy Long AndyLong@Emirates.Net.ae OR
AndrewLong@HotMail.com
==================================================
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 07:38:36 -0500
From: "Shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3835
Defenses:
Since your not high enough TL to have planetary meson gun sites,
your primary defense weapons are going to be missile sites,
sattelites and the like. however something else to consider is going
to be if theres enough water on planet to support submersible
activity, it would seem to make sense to outfit subs like the
Trident/Polaris/Ohio, with planetary defense missiles, something
akin to what was talked about in the Wet Navy series in Challenge
sometime around issue #55.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 10:21:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com>
Subject: Fwd: Starting The Game Days Again
Kristian Miller asked me to forward his gracious invitation to everyone to
play Traveller board, miniatures, and sometimes role-playing games at his
home in San Jose. With a few brief hiatuses, we (the San Jose Traveller
Group) have been meeting monthly since November 1999.
Please contact Kristian for address, directions, and other information.
- --Glenn
- --- Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com> wrote:
> From: "Kristian Miller" <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
> Subject: Starting The Game Days Again
> Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 23:43:44 -0700
>
> Hi All,
>
> I think its about time to start the game day again. April 28 will be the
> date. Same time (11:00), same format (games then dinner). I don't have
> Luther's email so if someone could send it to me I'd appreciate it.
>
> Primary Game: Mega-Invasion Earth
> Secondary: ???
>
> RSVP. Glenn, could you let the TML and SF-TML know? Thanks.
> Kristian
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3837
Date: | 4/11/01 4:37:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Wednesday, April 11 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3837
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Fwd: Starting The Game Days Again
Make them stop
Re: Fwd: Starting The Game Days Again
Way OT: ARPC Spring Full-Auto Shoot
Citizens of the TML, etc.
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3836
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 10:53:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Fox <jfox@verity.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Starting The Game Days Again
Glenn:
When is the group going to start playing Traveller again?
A better wustion would be "Is there going to be a traveller RPG there that
day?"
John W. Fox
>
> Kristian Miller asked me to forward his gracious invitation to everyone to
> play Traveller board, miniatures, and sometimes role-playing games at his
> home in San Jose. With a few brief hiatuses, we (the San Jose Traveller
> Group) have been meeting monthly since November 1999.
>
> Please contact Kristian for address, directions, and other information.
>
> --Glenn
>
>
> --- Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com> wrote:
> > From: "Kristian Miller" <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
> > Subject: Starting The Game Days Again
> > Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 23:43:44 -0700
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I think its about time to start the game day again. April 28 will be the
> > date. Same time (11:00), same format (games then dinner). I don't have
> > Luther's email so if someone could send it to me I'd appreciate it.
> >
> > Primary Game: Mega-Invasion Earth
> > Secondary: ???
> >
> > RSVP. Glenn, could you let the TML and SF-TML know? Thanks.
> > Kristian
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 15:13:33 -0400
From: "Swordy" <swordworlder@earthlink.net>
Subject: Make them stop
The typical gaming session
http://www.ifilm.com/ifilm/skeletons/film_detail/0,1263,220487,00.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 15:13:33 -0700
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Starting The Game Days Again
From: John Fox <jfox@verity.com>
>Glenn:
> When is the group going to start playing Traveller again?
> A better question would be "Is there going to be a traveller RPG there
that day?"
>
Amen, verily and hallelujah.
If I wanted to play wargames, I would.
Kiri ^_^
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 16:15:49 -0700
From: "Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>
Subject: Way OT: ARPC Spring Full-Auto Shoot
I need a definite headcount of the folks who planto hang out with
me (or stay at my house, or both) for the ARPC Spring Full-Auto
Shoot. The 2 definites that I have are Jesse DeGraff and Tod Glenn.
The most recent tenatives I know of are Doug Berry (and possibly
spouse), Glenn Goffin, and Bruce Johnson (and spouse.)
If you're on this list, please give me a definite "yes" or "no" as soon
as possible. If you're NOT on this list, but plan to come, please also
contact me soonest. I need to plan for the number of "house guests"
to expect.
Muchas gracias!
- Mark C.
mark f. cook * shoestring graphics & printing * markc@ssgfx.com
7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330 * http://www.ssgfx.com
Phone: 541-745-5709 Fax: 541-745-5818
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 11:23:41 -0400
From: "Swordy" <swordworlder@earthlink.net>
Subject: Citizens of the TML, etc.
For anyone who has submitted a recent update to "Citizens of the TML"
(http://www.downport.com/understanding/TML.html), which some of you should
if you have not, I _am_ updating the file, but not the one at the address
above. Traveller Downport is nearing completion of a major overhaul/code
clean-up that will be launched soon. There will be a slightly different
directory structure and separation of some of the old site into several new
sites. I'll post an announcement to the list, probably by this weekend. The
links from the Traveller Web Portal page will be updated at launch, also.
Almost there!
Swordy
_____________________________________
http://www.downport.com
The Traveller Web Portal
webmaster@downport.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:42:50 -0400
From: "Willbo" <willrichards@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3836
Heck No! I wont GO!!!!!!
I'ts finnaly quiet here for a change!
The Imperium has shattered once again!
;)
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3837
***********************************
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3838
Date: | 4/12/01 8:51:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Thursday, April 12 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3838
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3836
re: Fwd: Starting The Game Days Again
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3836
Not really OT: Yuri Gagarin anniversary
RE: Not really OT: Yuri Gagarin anniversary
Re: Fwd: Starting The Game Days Again
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3836
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 20:34:10 -0400
From: "Delos" <delos@superior.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3836
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Willbo" <willrichards@hotmail.com>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3836
: Heck No! I wont GO!!!!!!
:
: I'ts finnaly quiet here for a change!
:
: The Imperium has shattered once again!
:
:
: ;)
:
I've subscribed to the new list, but I dare not let go here until the last
minute. When did they say that this list will be gone?
delos
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 21:14:50 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: re: Fwd: Starting The Game Days Again
>Subject: Fwd: Starting The Game Days Again
>
>Kristian Miller asked me to forward his gracious invitation to everyone to
>play Traveller board, miniatures, and sometimes role-playing games at his
>home in San Jose. With a few brief hiatuses, we (the San Jose Traveller
>Group) have been meeting monthly since November 1999.
Hey, you guys want any more cheap micro-armour? I've still got
plenty of Scotia: Modern Russian, French, & Chinese - the latter
two have the advantage of not being clearly recognizable as Real
World to most observers, either.
USPS MO's or trades, as usual :)
Steven Hudson - shudson@lightspeed.ca
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 01:47:35 -0400
From: Gordon Hundley <drgoon@netaxs.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3836
On Wednesday, April 11, 2001, at 07:42 PM, Willbo wrote:
> Heck No! I wont GO!!!!!!
We're ALL still lurking and watching you, y'know...
Gordon.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 21:56:47 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <abradley1@bigpond.com>
Subject: Not really OT: Yuri Gagarin anniversary
"Circling the Earth in the orbital spaceship I marvelled at the beauty of
our planet. People of the world! Let us safeguard and enhance this beauty -
not destroy it!"
- - Yuri Gagarin
(Oh yes - I'm back on the list too...)
Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 09:44:02 -0400
From: "Swordy" <swordworlder@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Not really OT: Yuri Gagarin anniversary
You'll be very lonely here. The TML has moved. Visit
tml.travellercentral.com to sign up for the new list. This list will be
taken down next week.
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Alan Bradley
(Oh yes - I'm back on the list too...)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 10:03:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Starting The Game Days Again
>From: John Fox <jfox@verity.com>
> When is the group going to start playing Traveller again?
> A better wustion would be "Is there going to be a traveller RPG there
>that day?"
We anticipate re-starting my Regina Subsector Special Police campaign, set
on Regina just after the Fifth Frontier War, using Megatraveller rules
(mostly).
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 22:49:10 -0500
From: JR Holmes <jrholmes@wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3836
On Thu, 12 Apr 2001 01:47:35 -0400, Gordon Hundley <drgoon@netaxs.com>
wrote:
>
>On Wednesday, April 11, 2001, at 07:42 PM, Willbo wrote:
>
>> Heck No! I wont GO!!!!!!
>
>We're ALL still lurking and watching you, y'know...
This is just the ML version of a dead dog party.
I must say that its always been an enjoyable and personable place to
converse with others who enjoy a long-time favorite game.
- --
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3838
***********************************
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3839
Date: | 4/14/01 8:54:07 AM Pacific Daylight Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Saturday, April 14 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3839
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3838
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3835
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3835
Announcement: Traveller Downport overhaul
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 13:33:11 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <abradley1@bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3838
> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 09:44:02 -0400
> From: "Swordy" <swordworlder@earthlink.net>
> Subject: RE: Not really OT: Yuri Gagarin anniversary
>
> You'll be very lonely here. The TML has moved. Visit
> tml.travellercentral.com to sign up for the new list. This list will be
> taken down next week.
I wondered why it was so quiet. Thanks.
AB.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 15:49:52 +0100
From: Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3835
Goodbye and goodluck all....
The TML at IENT has been good great for the last few years I've been
here - Rob has been an excellent moderator and deserves much praise.
All the best,
Dom
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 22:20:47 +0100
From: "John G. Wood" <elvwood@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3835
Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> wrote:
> Goodbye and goodluck all....
>
> The TML at IENT has been good great for the last few years I've been
> here - Rob has been an excellent moderator and deserves much praise.
>
> All the best,
Hear hear!
John
http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 11:54:01 -0400
From: "Swordy" <swordworlder@earthlink.net>
Subject: Announcement: Traveller Downport overhaul
I am happy to announce a heavily revised interface for Traveller Downport, a
new look with fresh graphics and no JavaScript. Please take a moment to
visit the new version at http://www.downport.com/traveller and compare it to
the old version at http://www.dowmport.com/traveller.html
I'd be interested in any feedback, but particularly let me know of any
problems with the new version. I have been able to test it with IE5,
Netscape 4.73, 800x600, 1024x768 and 1280x1024, all on Win2k. I did some
preliminary testing with NS4.7 on FreeBSD. I'd be interested to hear from
Linux, Apple and AOL users, and perhaps someone using NS6. Some versions of
NS have problems with CSS, but that should be a minimal number of visitors.
You'll notice two major omissions in the new version: The "Support" area and
the "Eaglestone Collection" are moving to a new website that will be
launched soon, perhaps next weekend. I'll announce that with a big splash
when it happens.
Thanks folks!
_____________________________________
http://www.downport.com
The Traveller Web Portal
webmaster@downport.com
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3839
***********************************
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unsubscribe traveller-digest
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A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3840
Date: | 4/15/01 11:27:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Sunday, April 15 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3840
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
RE: Announcement: Traveller Downport overhaul
Re: Announcement: Traveller Downport overhaul
Digests
RE: Digests
RE: Announcement: Traveller Downport overhaul
Re: Announcement: Traveller Downport overhaul
RE: Announcement: Traveller Downport overhaul
Re: Announcement: Traveller Downport overhaul
And so we say goodbye...
RE: Announcement: Traveller Downport overhaul
Re: Announcement: Traveller Downport overhaul
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 12:42:08 -0400
From: "Swordy" <swordworlder@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Announcement: Traveller Downport overhaul
okay, other than the fact that I can't type straight...
the link to the old version is http://www.downport.com/traveller.html
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Swordy
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 11:54 AM
To: TML
Subject: Announcement: Traveller Downport overhaul
I am happy to announce a heavily revised interface for Traveller Downport, a
new look with fresh graphics and no JavaScript. Please take a moment to
visit the new version at http://www.downport.com/traveller and compare it to
the old version at http://www.dowmport.com/traveller.html
I'd be interested in any feedback, but particularly let me know of any
problems with the new version. I have been able to test it with IE5,
Netscape 4.73, 800x600, 1024x768 and 1280x1024, all on Win2k. I did some
preliminary testing with NS4.7 on FreeBSD. I'd be interested to hear from
Linux, Apple and AOL users, and perhaps someone using NS6. Some versions of
NS have problems with CSS, but that should be a minimal number of visitors.
You'll notice two major omissions in the new version: The "Support" area and
the "Eaglestone Collection" are moving to a new website that will be
launched soon, perhaps next weekend. I'll announce that with a big splash
when it happens.
Thanks folks!
_____________________________________
http://www.downport.com
The Traveller Web Portal
webmaster@downport.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 12:40:28 -0500
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Announcement: Traveller Downport overhaul
On 04/14/01 at 11:54 AM, "Swordy" <swordworlder@earthlink.net> said:
>I am happy to announce a heavily revised interface for Traveller
>Downport, a new look with fresh graphics and no JavaScript. Please
>take a moment to visit the new version at
>http://www.downport.com/traveller and compare it to the old version
>at http://www.dowmport.com/traveller.html
um...that's dowNport.com/traveller.html...you don't *really* want us to go to your old site do you? <g>
>I'd be interested in any feedback, but particularly let me know of
>any problems with the new version. I have been able to test it with
>IE5, Netscape 4.73, 800x600, 1024x768 and 1280x1024, all on Win2k.
>I did some preliminary testing with NS4.7 on FreeBSD. I'd be
>interested to hear from Linux, Apple and AOL users, and perhaps
>someone using NS6. Some versions of NS have problems with CSS, but
>that should be a minimal number of visitors.
I accessed the new version with NS 4.6 and NS 4.04 under OS/2. Everything worked okay. The new site appears a little slower to load than the old one, and the redraws on scrolling are slow enough to be quite noticeable. That's probably because you're using some sort of the fancy "wipe" display or something. <g>
Personally, I never had a problem with the old site and I'm probably using one of the older browsers and outre OS's on the list.
>You'll notice two major omissions in the new version: The "Support"
>area and the "Eaglestone Collection" are moving to a new website
>that will be launched soon, perhaps next weekend. I'll announce
>that with a big splash when it happens.
>Thanks folks!
You're welcome...and thank *you* for Downport.com
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 21:07:47 +0100
From: Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Digests
> > Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 09:44:02 -0400
> > From: "Swordy" <swordworlder@earthlink.net>
> > Subject: RE: Not really OT: Yuri Gagarin anniversary
> >
> > You'll be very lonely here. The TML has moved. Visit
> > tml.travellercentral.com to sign up for the new list. This list will be
> > taken down next week.
>
>I wondered why it was so quiet. Thanks.
Swordy,
Has someone snagged the Digest Archive for the new list server?
Dom
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 19:22:59 -0400
From: "Swordy" <swordworlder@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Digests
yea, verily. Tod Glenn is the new list Mom.
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Dominic Mooney
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 4:08 PM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: Digests
> > Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 09:44:02 -0400
> > From: "Swordy" <swordworlder@earthlink.net>
> > Subject: RE: Not really OT: Yuri Gagarin anniversary
> >
> > You'll be very lonely here. The TML has moved. Visit
> > tml.travellercentral.com to sign up for the new list. This list will be
> > taken down next week.
>
>I wondered why it was so quiet. Thanks.
Swordy,
Has someone snagged the Digest Archive for the new list server?
Dom
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 19:30:33 -0400
From: "Swordy" <swordworlder@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Announcement: Traveller Downport overhaul
Must be the background image... I'll see if I can lighten it some more. It
is amazing to me how far out of the game Netscape has fallen. Opera is a
better and more compliant browser than 4.7x :/
As for the old version of the site... _I_ had a lot of complaints about the
heavy use of JavaScript. The new version has only one page with JavaScript
in it, and it is a totally frivolous "comet" effect, which is only there for
the "hey! what the..?" reaction. :>
- -----Original Message-----On Behalf Of eris@pcola.gulf.net
I accessed the new version with NS 4.6 and NS 4.04 under OS/2. Everything
worked okay. The new site appears a little slower to load than the old one,
and the redraws on scrolling are slow enough to be quite noticeable. That's
probably because you're using some sort of the fancy "wipe" display or
something. <g>
Personally, I never had a problem with the old site and I'm probably using
one of the older browsers and outre OS's on the list.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 22:42:28 -0400
From: Gordon Hundley <drgoon@netaxs.com>
Subject: Re: Announcement: Traveller Downport overhaul
On my birthday, at 11:54 AM, Swordy wrote:
> I am happy to announce a heavily revised interface for Traveller
> Downport, a
> new look with fresh graphics and no JavaScript. Please take a moment to
> visit the new version at http://www.downport.com/traveller and compare
> it to
> the old version at http://www.dowmport.com/traveller.html
I like it. I think it's cleaner looking. It works fine in my browser
order of preference on Mac OS X 10.0.1 (Build 4L13) OmniWeb 4.0 code
freeze 3, iCab Pre 2.4, MS IE 5.1b1 (5502), Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U;
PPC; en-US; 0.8.1), Lynx Version 2.8.4dev.7, and on Mac OS 9.1 MS IE
5.0, iCab Pre 2.4, Netscape 4.75, HotJava 3.0 and MacLynx b1 PPC (2.7.1).
In fact, I can even browse with all of the above using Classic -
simultaneously. I used to have more browsers on my system, but I think
ten simultaneous displays of your page is screen clutter enough. I don't
think any Mac users will have a problem with your site. :)
Some of the clutter is here to see:
http://www.netaxs.com/~drgoon/images/ScreenGH03.jpg
It also works fine on Netscape 4.75 on RedHat 7.0 Intel, but it's not my
machine, so I'm not going to install other browsers on it. :)
Gordon.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 23:08:22 -0400
From: "Swordy" <swordworlder@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Announcement: Traveller Downport overhaul
That's incredible. You're a peach :) I really need to get my hands on a
machine with OS X, if just to play. What's the deal with the anti-alias
text? It's everywhere! 'scuse me while I check the budget to see if there is
room for a cube...
BTW, happy b-day!
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Gordon Hundley
Some of the clutter is here to see:
http://www.netaxs.com/~drgoon/images/ScreenGH03.jpg
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 23:33:17 -0400
From: Gordon Hundley <drgoon@netaxs.com>
Subject: Re: Announcement: Traveller Downport overhaul
On Saturday, April 14, 2001, at 11:08 PM, Swordy wrote:
> That's incredible. You're a peach :) I really need to get my hands on a
> machine with OS X, if just to play. What's the deal with the anti-alias
> text? It's everywhere! 'scuse me while I check the budget to see if
> there is
> room for a cube...
OS X's Quartz display engine does rapid anti-alias on text and graphics.
So in most applications you just leave it on. I like it. :) The speed it
throws bitmaps around is amazing - if you haven't played with a demo
machine with dock magnification on, you should. And doing real-time 3d
updates from PDFs in the compositor... drool. Definitely worth an
extended play at your local Mac dealer. Just keep your credit cards at
home unless you want to do something rash. :)
> BTW, happy b-day!
Thanks!
> Some of the clutter is here to see:
> http://www.netaxs.com/~drgoon/images/ScreenGH03.jpg
Go to http://www.netaxs.com/~drgoon/ for some more OS X scenes. ;)
Gordon.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 11:57:21 +0400
From: "Andrew Long" <andrewlong@hotmail.com>
Subject: And so we say goodbye...
I'd just like to add my .02 <your currency> to those of all the others posting their goodbyes. I've been with the list since I discovered the Internet back in (about) '93/'94. It was the first mailing list I looked for and subscribed to, and it hasn't failed to entertain, instruct and (occasionally) annoy me in all that time. I hope and trust that I will feel the same about the new list. I'm sure that I will, as the members will still be (mostly) the same.
Rob, if you're still reading these mails, thank you for your superbly unobtrusive management of the list. I hope that you're still Travelling along with the rest of us, and that we'll all continue to share our TU's.
And so it's goodnight from me...
And it's goodnight from him.
Goodnight
Andy
============================================================
Andy Long AndrewLong@HotMail.com OR
AndyLong@Emirates.Net.ae
============================================================
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 08:48:22 -0400
From: "Swordy" <swordworlder@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Announcement: Traveller Downport overhaul
Speaking or which... I was recently laid off from Rational Software. My
departing joke was that I would be starting my own software company that
would soon eclipse my former employer:
"Rash Software: Buy Our Software Now, Find a Use For It Later"
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Gordon Hundley
OS X's Quartz display engine does rapid anti-alias on text and graphics.
So in most applications you just leave it on. I like it. :) The speed it
throws bitmaps around is amazing - if you haven't played with a demo
machine with dock magnification on, you should. And doing real-time 3d
updates from PDFs in the compositor... drool. Definitely worth an
extended play at your local Mac dealer. Just keep your credit cards at
home unless you want to do something rash. :)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 11:24:08 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Announcement: Traveller Downport overhaul
On Sat, 14 Apr 2001 22:42:28 -0400 drgoon@netaxs.com (Gordon Hundley) wrote:
>
>Some of the clutter is here to see:
>http://www.netaxs.com/~drgoon/images/ScreenGH03.jpg
Showoff!
Utterly OT:
I'm awaiting my G4 upgrade next week. If Mac user wants to take a risk on
almost-orphaned hardware, OWC (http://www.macsales.com ) has some Metabox
JoeCard G4 upgrades for insanely low prices...I got a G4/450 (overclockable on
the card to 550 mHz ) for $319 on Friday, for my venerable 7600. This is some
$150 or so cheaper than the nearest competitor.
The 'almost orphaned' part is that Metabox seems to be getting out of the
upgrade biz, and focusing on their set-top boxes and firewire drives. Their
web site says they'll honor all warrantee etc, and they're not going out of
business, just out of the upgrades business.
However, from what I've read on the various web forums, PowerLogix software
works on the Metabox cards, too, and Ryan Rempel's 'OSX on Old World
motherboards' hack works too.
Move fast, though it was a 'remaining stock' deal.
Bruce Johnson
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3840
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3841
Date: | 4/18/01 1:42:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Wednesday, April 18 2001 Volume 1999 : Number 3841
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
RE: Announcement: Traveller Downport overhaul
RE: Announcement: Traveller Downport overhaul
Boeing Hypersonic Passenger Jet
Re: Boeing Hypersonic Passenger Jet
Re: Boeing Hypersonic Passenger Jet
Re: Boeing Hypersonic Passenger Jet
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 09:37:18 +0100
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 22:07:52 +1200
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: Announcement: Traveller Downport overhaul
Swordy wrote :
> I am happy to announce a heavily revised interface for Traveller
> Downport, a
> new look with fresh graphics and no JavaScript. Please take a moment to
> visit the new version at http://www.downport.com/traveller and
> compare it to
> the old version at http://www.dowmport.com/traveller.html
>
> I'd be interested in any feedback, but particularly let me know of any
> problems with the new version. I have been able to test it with IE5,
> Netscape 4.73, 800x600, 1024x768 and 1280x1024, all on Win2k. I did some
> preliminary testing with NS4.7 on FreeBSD. I'd be interested to hear from
> Linux, Apple and AOL users, and perhaps someone using NS6. Some
> versions of
> NS have problems with CSS, but that should be a minimal number of
> visitors.
Works good in Opera 5.02.
Pretty fast. No "illegal javascript" errors anymore, but you;re wrong when
you;re saying you aren't using javascript at all. There are still
"onmouseover" scripts in there <grin>.
The HTML is pretty clean too, apart from the stuff in the
<!Webring><!/webring> tag
For a start, it's a mixed case tag, and there are tags with capital letters
inside it.
As this and the <!TOOLBAR> are non-standard tags they are being ignored by
the browser, so it's probably not a big deal, but it will prevent your HTML
from being properly validated against it's specified DTD.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 08:41:33 -0400
From: "Swordy" <swordworlder@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Announcement: Traveller Downport overhaul
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Frank G. Pitt
Pretty fast. No "illegal javascript" errors anymore, but you;re wrong when
you;re saying you aren't using javascript at all. There are still
"onmouseover" scripts in there <grin>.
Oh, I know very well that _I_ am not using any JavaScript (except for the
silly comet effect on the Art page), but I don't normally change inserted
code I receive from others. I shall make an exception in this case, however,
just because of how messy it is.
The HTML is pretty clean too, apart from the stuff in the
<!Webring><!/webring> tag
For a start, it's a mixed case tag, and there are tags with capital letters
inside it.
As this and the <!TOOLBAR> are non-standard tags they are being ignored by
the browser, so it's probably not a big deal, but it will prevent your HTML
from being properly validated against it's specified DTD.
Very messy tags, indeed. In fact, there were eight errors in that little
block. Very naughty. Now there are no errors and no warnings in the HTML or
the CSS. And no JavaScript (or ECMAScript, for that matter).
Enjoy!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 13:58:29
From: "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com>
Subject: Boeing Hypersonic Passenger Jet
Boeing just announced that it is developing a 5,000 to 7,000 mph hypersonic
passenger scramjet that could circle the globe in under four hours.
http://boeingnews.web.boeing.com/010416_superjet.html
The plane would have no windows; it would use wall screens to show passing
clouds.
My question is: The article states that the plane would use a highly
pressurized cabin to reduce the effects of acceleration. Short of liquefying
the air, how does that work?
John
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 07:20:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bernie McGeehan <einreb62@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Boeing Hypersonic Passenger Jet
I tried your link...doesn't work...are you perhaps
confusing the "Sonic Cruiser" that was announced a few
weeks ago with a hypersonic scramjet?
- --- John Lambert <hovtej@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Boeing just announced that it is developing a 5,000
> to 7,000 mph hypersonic
> passenger scramjet that could circle the globe in
> under four hours.
>
http://boeingnews.web.boeing.com/010416_superjet.html
=====
I don't jog. It makes the ice jump right out of my vodka tonic.http://prattfall.tripod.com/gurps/traveller.html
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 14:38:39
From: "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Boeing Hypersonic Passenger Jet
>From: Bernie McGeehan <einreb62@yahoo.com>
>
>I tried your link...doesn't work...are you perhaps
>confusing the "Sonic Cruiser" that was announced a few
>weeks ago with a hypersonic scramjet?
The link may be on the internal company web. I'll try to find a good link.
The article is from the Times of London. The scramjet will be Boeing's step
after the "sonic cruiser".
John
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 14:50:51
From: "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Boeing Hypersonic Passenger Jet
The Boeing scramjet article was from the Sunday Times (of London). The URL I
gave appears to be on the Boeing internal web; here is a better one:
http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/Sunday-Times/frontpage.html?999
Go to "Contents" and look under "News"
The scramjet is Boeing's development effort beyond the "Sonic Cruiser"
previously announced.
John
PS: I posted the first message here by habit. I have subscribed to the new
TML.
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 09:37:18 +0100
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 09:37:18 +0100
Farewell, iEnt, and thanks for everything.
Ho! For Trav Central!
Dean
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3841
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