From traveller@mpgn.com  Tue Sep  5 22:01:38 1995
Return-Path: traveller@mpgn.com
Received: from Ambassador.MPGN.COM (Ambassador.MPGN.COM [149.109.1.5]) by emin06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA14206; Tue, 5 Sep 1995 22:01:13 -0400
Received: from  (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Ambassador.MPGN.COM (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA13274; Tue, 5 Sep 1995 17:05:51 -0400
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 17:05:51 -0400
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.91.950905152602.18050A-100000@hubble.sheridanc.on.ca>
Errors-To: traveller-request@mpgn.com
Reply-To: traveller@mpgn.com
Originator: traveller@mpgn.com
Sender: traveller@mpgn.com
Precedence: bulk
From: traveller@mpgn.com
To: Multiple recipients of list <traveller@mpgn.com>
Subject: TRAVELLER digest 403
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment: Traveller Mailing List

			    TRAVELLER Digest 403

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Robot Design...
	by merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
  2) Political speculation: the Regency
	by Alvin Plummer <alvin.plummer@sheridanc.on.ca>
  3) Wet navies...
	by Christopher_Griffen@dmcwave.com (Christopher Griffen)
  4) RE: Robot Design... 
	by That Computer Guy <darkstar@chopin.udel.edu>
  5) Anybody interested in a SF PBEM?
	by sma@kiel.netsurf.de (Stefan Matthias Aust)
  6) Re: Space Fighter Recovery
	by stedee@auto-trol.com (Steve Deemer)
  7) Regency/Zhodani: take two
	by Alvin Plummer <alvin.plummer@sheridanc.on.ca>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 12:09:20 -0600 (MDT)
From: merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Robot Design...
Message-ID: <9509051809.AA12088@Rt66.com>

Hi,

> In Reply to Your Message of Tue, 05 Sep 1995 09: 41:02 PDT
> Date: Tue, 05 Sep 1995 13:36:51 -0400
> From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@chopin.udel.edu>
> 
> Chris, hope you don't mind, but I'm also cc'ing this to the list.
> 
> Here's what I've come up with for antropomorphic robots.  Merrick was
> kind enough to reply that a human being (himself specifically) weighs
> about 6kg.


Er, I thought I said 60 kg (actually, I'm 61 ;-)
		      ^
		      ^

> The average human weighs somewhere between 6-8kg.  I chose 7.5 as my
> average.  1000kg=>1tonne=>1kl.  So, I figured that .075 or so would be
> the volume that we're aiming for.  Now, I settled for .1 figuring that
> I could get a human looking 2 meter tall robot for that value, and not
> have it be to out of hand.

Multiply all the stuff you have by 10 and you'll be OK.  
 

Regards,
	Merrick (who would be very tiny, indeed, if he were 6kg :-)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Sep 1995 15:03:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alvin Plummer <alvin.plummer@sheridanc.on.ca>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Political speculation: the Regency
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91.950905150227.16996N-100000@hubble.sheridanc.on.ca>



Time to blow off some pent-up, worthless geopolitical gobblegygoop before 
posting some useful items.

A) The less-than-astounding Grandfather: Just thinking... Remember that 
Grandfather built up a massive and extensive civilization, and blew it up by 
killing off the kiddies in a big-time Final War (the real one)?  And 
afterwords, he just built a pocket universe around Lair (or is it in the 
Spinward Marches?) and hid out for the next 300,000 years?
    Just pointing out that after WE blew it up, we just surged right 
back in again.  I'm not certain that this makes us superiour to Gramps, 
but, since The Regency (and the Zho's, and the Daryen, and even the 
Hivers I suspect) still have TL 16, and assuming the max TL rises by one 
level every two centuries, we should equal Gandfather's TL 25 at about 
1600 years, or 2800 Imperial.  A remarkably short period of time from his 
perspective.  
    I wonder what's he going to do about it... but I bet we'll be harder 
to kill off than his clone children. (esp. if either the Zho's, or the
Imperials, plow ahead in psionics.)

B) The Imperial Fringe becomes the Imperial Core... Just thinking about a 
previous comment about how the pre-Collapse Imperium often confused the 
Imperial Fringe (ie. the Domain of Deneb, now the Regency) with the 
Lunatic Fringe.  
   Considering that some of the most powerful worlds in the 
area are off-centre theocracies (Deneb and Lintle), and that the area was 
settled by rather unsavoury Solomani societies that was anti-social 
enough to ship out over six hundred light-years from their homeworlds 
(spending untold trillions of credits in the process), and that, as the 
previous poster said, "until the 500s, the Marches was about in the same 
position as Africa was to the 19th century European mind", I would 
strongly tend to agree.
   However, now the Imperial Fringe has become the Imperial Core. The 
Regency has a higher population than the rest of the Blasted Area 
combined: and I doubt if the other guys will catch up anytime soon.  
It will be interesting to ride with the first of the Regency Scouts into, 
say, Vland (which would have a TL somewhere between 0 and 4 now, if memory 
serves).  Will they revere the ruins, like how we revere the ruins of 
Ancient Greece and Rome?  Will they be disgusted at the evidence of the 
failure of the Imperium, and raze it all as fast as they can?  Will they 
consider the locals barbarians, and resettle it with True Imperials (ie 
guys from Behind the Claw)?  Or will they attempt to teach the locals, 
seen as Imperial brothers, fallen on hard times?
    Oh Yeah, and will the new capital of the (Third? Restored? Fourth? 
Imperium) be at Mora, or will the old capital at Core be rebuilt?  Anyone 
for dual capitals?

C) AntiImperial viewpoints in the Wilds
   As far as can be known, the Regency plans to refound the Imperium.  
This will be no problem technologically or militarily, but will cause 
difficult political problems in the Wilds.  First off, a large 
minority/majority of the survivors in the Wilds will loath the return 
of the Imperials: they certainly don't identify with them (not after a 
massive civil war, a major die-off, and a near-complete fall-off of 
interstellar contact), and will pin the blame of the collapse on them.  
They are xenophobic, and the Regency citizen is *definitely* an alien 
to their eyes.  They are technophobic, and the Regency citizen has far 
too much technology on him to be trusted.  The people of the Wilds  have 
largely forgotten their Imperial heritage, and have only local concerns: 
they don't want to be taxed or ruled by a government 600 light-years away 
which has an unfortunate resemblence with Lucan's Imperium (The Imperial 
Sunbursts, the Noble Titles, even the money and the naval uniforms are 
sure to cause incidents.)  

Moreover, the less xenophobic, pro-tech rulers - the "cutting edge elite" of 
the Wild's -  have been free of interstellar control for 70+ years: many 
of these worlds' rulers want to build their own interstellar states, not 
be reaborbed into someone elses empire.  The more far-seeing ones don't 
want their society swamped by an distant alien culture which is 
definitely superior in wealth, technology, and military power.  

Virus-dominated worlds are going to have a severe reaction to the antiVirus 
Regency.  A *lot* of Infected computers will hate the Regency with a 
passion, and do anything in their capasity to keep them away.  The 
strains that despises their own existance, viewing organic life as 
superior, will tend to favour the Regency over the RC.  ProLucan Virus 
strains may like the Regency a lot (and, I suspect, cause  plenty of 
political problems too!), antiLucan strains will hate the Regency as a 
matter of course.  [It's unlikely that Virus will seperate Lucan from the 
concept of the Third Imperium: they, like most of the human members of 
the Wilds, will tend to view them as indivisible.] 

And, of course, the RC will take an instant dislike to the Regency - a 
loathing that will be returned with interest.  The Sector Governour (or 
the Sector Duke - the Wilds are better ruled by decree than by votes) is 
going to have his hands full, dealing with the locals and interfering RC 
agents.

D) The Regency response
And how will the Regency respond to antiImperial attitudes?  Remembering 
that the Regency has a massive cash, tech, and military superiority to 
just about everyone else between the Zho's and the Hivers, I suspect 
that they will 'buy' most of it off the Wilds.  The attitudes of Virus is 
immaterial to the Regency, as will be seen later.

The folk in the Wilds may or may not "believe" in the Nobility, but are 
familiar with the concept:  a large number of governments are TED's, 
similar in basis (if not in style) to the standard Feudal Technocracy.
In many instances, the Regency will simply either replace the local TED 
with a Regency Noble (one way to keep them from causing trouble back in 
Civilization) or slap the TED with a Regency Advisor (who, like the 
famous British Resident, actually gave the orders, with the TED acting as 
a respected figurehead.)

Those societies that ally themselves with the Regency/Imperium can expect 
plenty of cash flow.  There's a lot of rebuilding to do, from navy bases 
to factories to getting some A ports operational.  Ice-cold cemetery 
worlds need to be sterilized and picked clean and/or reoccupied.  Certain 
prestige worlds (Vland and Capital, among others) are going to have 
massive cash poured in to restore them to their former splendor - and 
provide a useful industrial base for local defense needs.  Those "Lesser 
breeds without the law" are going to have Imperial Law reintroduced to 
them: most of the Regency Marines for the Blasted Area are going to be 
drawn from previously reContacted worlds, trained by Denebi or Marchman 
officers. (It's a lot cheaper than continually shipping over Marines from 
behind the Claw, aka Civilization)   

There wil be those who will never voluntarily permit the Regency or a 
reborn Imperium to control their destiny.  That's where the Regency Navy 
and Marines step in.  Admittedly, they will be very thinly stretched out, 
with very few bases before, say, 1400.  [The Regency Navy may want to 
consider the Jump-capable starport idea, last seen in the Oydessy-class, 
50 million-ton (or thereabouts) scout ship.  It's either that, or start 
building a LOT of tenders.]  The base problem might be eased a bit if the 
Regency can find some intact - if infected - old Navy bases to disinfect 
and occupy.

E) Regency and Virus
    Virus and robots are apperantly hated with an unlimited depth in the 
Regency, from what I can gather from the last page of the Vampire Fleets 
book. (Umm, GDW, when is the Regency book coming out? I mean, *really* ?)
This implies that the Regency will simply sterilize any bit of Virus it 
can get it's hands on.  (as they said in Aliens, "We need to be SURE.")
What they can't fry electronically, they'll nuke into glass.
    So much for Virus.
    
    There is actually four reasons I can think of for this attitude.  

A: Virus in the Regency is not regarded as a person. In the Imperium of 
old, to be an Imperial Citizen you had to be both sentient and organic.  
The Viral Collapse is very unlikely to have encouraged people to have a 
more chariable view of intelligent machines.

B: Many of the top worlds of the Regency would be killed of or greviously 
wounded if ANY Viral infection came in.  Therefore, you can expect a 
"zero tolerance" attitude from them. (and do you really think that they 
will trust the promises of a Peacemaker strain of Virus?  Wait a few 
centuries, than ask again...)

C: Vengeance.  For the death of the Imperium.  For billions of frozen 
corpses, floating among the ruins.  
 
D: Lack of familiarity with Virus.  The Regency got many, many blessings 
for keeping out Virus, but the lack of contact of Virus insures that 
noone is familiar with it.  Lack of familiaity tends to breed a 
"magicial" view of Virus, as if it was some kind of supernatural evil 
rather than a limited, measureable, and understandable being.  And the 
massive crusade to rebuild the Imperium is certainly going to view Virus 
as evil murderors, to be liquidated without hesitation. (and, 99% of the 
time, they will be right.  It's that 1% that bothers me...)

F) Regency/Imperial responses to Coalition propaganda
As soon as the Coalition realises that the Regency exists, you can 
expect a major antiImperial propaganda drive, to hinder Regency/Imperial 
control of the Wilds. (Well, you can't really blame the Coalition: they 
would like to remain independent, after all).  They will play up 
antiImperial attitudes previously noted, but protray themselves as "One 
of Our People" protecting their region of the Wilds from those 
bloodthirsty, autocratic, alien Regency Imperials.  They will also stress 
their democratic nature, guessing (correctly, I suspect) that the Regency 
sure isn't going to expand the Democratic Reforms to cover low-tech 
barbarians.  Finally, they will have the sympathy of many Virus systems 
since "well-behaved" viral strains will have citizenship rights within 
the Coaition, unlike viral strains within Regency-controlled territory, 
which (I think) will be simply exterminated.
     The RC will have a serious political advantage over the Regency, 
as they KNOW how Wildmen think: for crying out loud, they WERE Wildmen 
until the day before yesterday, when the Hivers contacted them.  It will 
tak ethe Regency decades until they can really understand the perspective 
of the Wilds: they have such a superiority over the Wilds that most 
probably will never even bother to learn, but instead just bribe them or 
shoot them as the situation warrents.

      At a guess, the Regency will relegitimize the Imperium (and, by 
implication, their presence in the Wilds) by the following seven simple 
ideas, repeated over and over:

A: "This part of space is Imperial territory.  While the Imperium ruled, 
there was enough for all, and men enjoyed and used their high-tech 
machines.  When the Imperium was gone, many starved, died, and was 
impoverished.  Moreover, machines ruled over men.  Now, the Imperium is 
back.  Stand with us, and we will restore the way it was."

B: "The Final War/Collapse was started when your ancestors foolishly decided 
to divide the Imperium, and choose to forsake Imperial Values of Honour, 
Reverence and Unity: only we of the Regency maintained the old ways.  
And only we of the Regency kept the gifts of the Imperium, while your 
ancestors brought onto themselves the horrors of the Collapse.  Can't 
you see our wealth, our full bellies, and our power?  We extend our 
hands to you, so you can join us and we can again stand as one."
     
C: To TED's "The Imperial Nobility still lives, and approves of the way 
you have governed your world in these difficult circumstances.  We would 
like to reward you with more wealth, more technology, and more power.  
Come and take your appointed place within our ranks, and both you and your 
people will attain your true, Imperial destiny."

D: To democracies: "The Regency has learned the lessons of the tragic 
Collapse.  We have fully reformed our government, to give a vastly 
greater voice to the people while diminishing the power of the Nobility 
to a more limited sphere.  By increasing the say of the people without 
bloodshed or wanton destruction, we have proven ourselves fit to lead 
Charted Space.  Join us as we rebuild the broken worlds together." 

E: To nationalists, technophobes, xenophobes: "The Imperium has a proven 
record of leaving individual systems to decide their own fate, and 
control their own rate of development. You may think that you would have 
more freedom apart from the Regency/Imperium, but there are those (looks 
significantly at the RC representative) who would force you to follow 
*their* political agenda, to use robots again, to trust your lives to 
machines again.  Join us, and our fleets will insure that no one will 
force you down any path you don't want to follow!" 

F: To everyone within hearing "The RC believes that Virus are people, who 
have rights.  The RC wants you to trust the machines again. The 
RC are barbarians, who hurdle from the sky to steal what they want. 
Th RC obviously has learned nothing from either the Final War or the 
Collapse.  Side with us, and we will protect you from such madmen!"

G: To the hardcases: "This is not some petty pocket empire you're talking 
to, but the Regency, the sole heir of the Imperium.  A nation with  
*real* fleets, and *real* marines.  Are you sure you want to mess with us?  
Cause if these ruins haven't taught you what Imperial Force can do, I 
have some friends who would be glad to give ignorant, ground-dwelling 
barbarians like you a repeat lesson!"  

[Note: the epthiet "groung-dwelling" refers to the lack of anti-grav tech 
and space travel in most Wild cultures.]

G) To The Future: The revived Third Imperium,  c. 1500.
If an Imperial went into a low berth on Mora in 1110 Imperial, and came 
out 390 years later, he would have a few surprises waiting for him.  
Technology behind the Claw would have increased substantually: the 
'standard' TL is 17, with a few TL 18 systems.  He would be astounded by 
the psions walking freely around him, and just as astounded by the lack 
of robots or automations of any kind, they having been replaced by 
genetically tailored animals or specially-bred people.

He would be even more astounded to learn that he's standing on the 
capital of the Third Imperium. That this Imperium is currently fighting 
it's third major war against a human/AI empire, far to rimward, calling 
itself the Aubaine Republic.  That the area where they're fighting, 
Massilia sector, is considered profoundly primitive compared to the 
Marches (which was a psion-infested backwater when our Imperial want for 
his long nap). That the Republic is based in the Old Expanses, which was 
another backwater back in 1110.  That the Republic's major allies are 
Hivers, a people who our Imperial *knows* are cowards, and would never 
side against the Imperium on any issue.

He would learn that the current Third Imperium is basicaly divided into 
A: The Domain of Deneb and B: The Imperial Protectorates, ruled from the 
Domain.  That Deneb has democratic priveleges, but the Protectorates are 
ruled directly by the nobility.  That there are massive wealth and 
technology differences between the Domain and the Protectorates, to the 
extent that they can only be barely considered part of the same empire.
That while the culture of the Protectorates do resemble the classic Third 
Imperium culture (just at a lower average tech level, and with a harder 
edge), Domain culture resembles some ghastly, mindreading nightmare mix 
of Zhodani and Imperial cultures, which deeply fightens our timelost 
Imperial.  That even the xboat network has been replaced with a chain of 
telepathic psions (gasp!). 

Some things about the Domain will be quite fascinating.  That half of the 
population has been alive for over three centuries, since the 'death gene' 
has finally been fixed (no more need for anagathics).  That there are 
worlds with over 7 TRILLION people on them: the famous, fictional world 
of Trantor, totally covered over with cities and buildings, is a 
reality.  Fundamentally, the psionics and high-grade survellance 
technology will finally drive our Imperial out of Mora, and into the 
Protectorates.

I strongly suspect that the people of the Protectorates will resent being 
ruled by psionic-loving, high-tech people who now, with their bioshaped 
bodies and organic machines, seem more alien than human.  But I don't 
believe that they will feel that the human/AI Aubaine Republic is any better.
It will be interesting if they can find a viable alternative to either 
turning your tools into living beings or turning living beings into tools.

Appendix I: Why the Reformation Coalition will survive contact with the 
Regency.

A few month's ago, I ridiculed the idea that the RC will outlast contact 
contact with the Regency, since even a ho-humm, TL E frontier BatRon 
could stomp out not only the RC, but possibly anything in the Old Expanses.

Well, no.  First, I overlooked the fact that Vras (now Aubaine) was TL F 
preCollapse.  That - with the fact that the RC has been successfuly 
maintaining quite an amount of TL F equipment - means that the RC has 
a good grasp of TL F technology, and that their current TL of 12 is 
strictly temporary.  By 1230, they should have made their first TL F 
warships, new from the ground up.

But how will they get the high-tech vampire warships they need to fend off 
the Regency in the meantime?  

Simple. Infect them with a friendly Virus.

Using the same method, the vampire fleefs can be convered into RC fleets, 
giving them quite a bit of muscle to face the Regency with.  Add in the 
factr that Infected warships (with a peasemaker strain) operate at TL 16, 
and the RC (later, Aubaine Republic) Navy have some real toys to play with.

Now (actually, from say 1220) , if that TL E BarRon squadron from the 
Regency arrives over Aubaine, it'll be lucky to get out alive.

Appendix II: Territory

At a very iffy guess, I'd say that Charted Space should be divided as 
follows, by c.1350

Domain of Deneb (Imperial): Spinward Marches
                            Deneb
                            Corridor
                            Provence
                            Trojan Reach
                            Reft
[Note: there's lot's of room for growth: if the Regency decides to 
incorporate a good chunk of the Vargr extents or the Aslan Hierate, 
there's precious little to stop them, excluding the cost of doing so AND 
rebuilding the Imperium at the same time.]

The Colonial Frontier
                            The Windhorn
                            Meshan
                            Mendan
                            Amdukan
                            The Empty Quarter
[Note: if I was the Strategic Advisor to the Emperor/Regent, I'd 
recommend (as soon as we discover that the RC is the major government in 
the Wilds) that we don't waste trillions fighting a war with the RC, but 
send over the diplomats, make a firm border, and focus expansion 
coreward.  And I bet that the political mirage of rebuilding the 
Regina-to-Terra Imperium will make my idea moot.  Personal loathing of 
the antiImperial RC may have something to do with it, too.]

The Settled Zone        
                            Vland
                            Lishun
                            Antares
                            Gushemege
                            Dagudashaag 
                            Core
[These sectors will have a mix of xenophobic, low-tech worlds; 
Regency-settled, high-tech worlds; and "working-class" mid-tech worlds 
(TL B to D, say). This area would be most prone to desire seperation from 
the Denebi, who now more resemble the Zhos than the old Imperials.]

Contested with the Aubaine Republic
                            Zarushager
                            Massilia
                            Delphi
[A fun, fun area to work in.  More adventure than you bargained for.  
Occasional border war: local flare-ups between the Imperial and Aubaine 
Navy is so common that they don't even rate a message to Mora.]

Aubaine Republic            Daibei
                            Daispora
                            Old Expanses
                            Solomani Rim
                            Alpha Crucis
[And expanding rimward all the time...]

Wilds + Pocket Empires      Fornast
                            Verge
                            Illeish
                            Ley
[Most of this area will still be in the process of being reincorporated 
into the Third Imperium.]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alvin Plummer
"Preserve what we created, Norris, and remember what we stood for."
                               - Strephon, 179-1126

Reply to: alvin.plummer@SHERIDANC.ON.CA
------------------------------------------------------------------------------




------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 12:44:13 -0700
From: Christopher_Griffen@dmcwave.com (Christopher Griffen)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Wet navies...
Message-ID: <04ca8950@MailXFER.DMCWAVE.COM>

     Someone mentioned that wet navy ship design was covered in an issue of 
     Challenge.  Can someone tell me which issue of Challenge that was?
     
     Thanks!
     
     --Chris

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 15:40:02 -0400
From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@chopin.udel.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: RE: Robot Design... 
Message-ID: <199509051940.PAA21946@chopin.udel.edu>

In Reply to Your Message of Tue, 05 Sep 1995 15: 21:37 EDT
Date: Tue, 05 Sep 1995 15:40:02 -0400
From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@chopin.udel.edu>

: Hi,
: 
: > In Reply to Your Message of Tue, 05 Sep 1995 09: 41:02 PDT
: > Date: Tue, 05 Sep 1995 13:36:51 -0400
: > From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@chopin.udel.edu>
: > 
: > Chris, hope you don't mind, but I'm also cc'ing this to the list.
: > 
: > Here's what I've come up with for antropomorphic robots.  Merrick was
: > kind enough to reply that a human being (himself specifically) weighs
: > about 6kg.
: 
: 
: Er, I thought I said 60 kg (actually, I'm 61 ;-)

You're right.  I made a mistake with the people's weights.

: > The average human weighs somewhere between 6-8kg.  I chose 7.5 as my
: > average.  1000kg=>1tonne=>1kl.  So, I figured that .075 or so would be
: > the volume that we're aiming for.  Now, I settled for .1 figuring that
: > I could get a human looking 2 meter tall robot for that value, and not
: > have it be to out of hand.
: 
: Multiply all the stuff you have by 10 and you'll be OK.  
:  
: 
: Regards,
: 	Merrick (who would be very tiny, indeed, if he were 6kg :-)

However, the .1 is correct.  Sorry, I was just dropping zeros because I
was working off of the chicken scratch that I call notes.

       --Jerry

8) Jerry Alexandratos                %  "Nothing inhabits my    (8 
8) darkstar@strauss.udel.edu         %   thoughts, and oblivion (8
8) darkstar@canary.pearson.udel.edu  %   drives my desires."    (8

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Sep 1995 21:44:04 +0100
From: sma@kiel.netsurf.de (Stefan Matthias Aust)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Anybody interested in a SF PBEM?
Message-ID: <m0sq39j-0001ItC@kiel.netsurf.de>

Hello.

I'm playing with the idea to start a SF PBEM roleplaying game. It would
have a background similar to classic traveller so I hope you don't mind
that I post this announcement here. There might be drawback for most of you
because I would refee the game in (my native) German language. However,
it's perfectly okay if you use English to send your turns/descriptions and
use this language to communicate. I would love to have an international
flair in this game :-) You only have to be able to understand (basic)
German.

The game, so is my basic idea, will be about the establishment of a
colony on the world "Jovoo" which is an abandoned world in the so called
border sector. This sector is a neutral zone since the last great war
with the Estadh of Bezidhar (another spacefaring power) 100 years ago.
The peace treaty between Imperium and Bezidhar declared this part of
the galaxy as neutral no-man's-land. Now the border sector is reopened
and it will be the players job to establish a new colony at jovoo.

Technology will be roughly like Traveller. Common personal weapons are
modern projectile weapons, lasers are bulky and costly. Body armor 
is available but not very effective and the best protection is still
not to get hit. Grav technology is common at high tech levels and
modern ground combat is done with grav tanks supported by heavy armored
troops. Medicine is advanced but neither cyberware nor braintapes are
possible. Cloning is possible but prohibit@Čn the Imperium. At ship
level lasers and force shield become usual. Starship travel is shorter
than in Traveller and I'll use a 3D universe. Though it's unrealistic,
in-system travel works with reactionless drives. There's no hyperspace
communication. A handful mostly human-like races (Imperials, Bezidhar, 
Djodani, Ayleans, Wargr, ...) will populate the known universe. Political
structures are of great variety (one of the secrets of success of the
Imperium), the Imperiums tries to keep the peace and let the worlds 
do what they want. 

I would like to put the emphasize not on large scale colonisation but
on the small (and sometimes larger) problems that will arise. Possible
character occupations might be in command/administration, exploration,
security, transport/engineering, science or "important" colonist.

If there's enough interest, I'll start about October. By then I'll
have written more about my rules, the background, its history and
technology. I have still to make some decission about the exact
setting.

If you are interested (no binding, no costs, completly free :-)
please send me a short reply. Thanks.

bye
--
Stefan Matthias Aust // ...and the sun gets bloody, and the sun goes down


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Sep 95 10:18:02 MDT
From: stedee@auto-trol.com (Steve Deemer)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Space Fighter Recovery
Message-ID: <9509051618.AA10238@stedee.YP.attc>

aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton writes:
>Watching _Top Gun_ on TV last night, I got to wondering how space (as
>opposed to wet) carriers worked.

I could see Adama ordering "Launch all Vipers!" while reading this. Anyway,
the _Battlestar Galatica_ had those big box things on the sides. Fighters
were recovered in the same manner as wet navy carriers: Fly up from behind,
snag something on the recovery deck and come to a stop. If you automate
a lot of this, you don't need all those deck crew in vacc suits running
around. I seem to recall another version in _Buck Rogers_ where fighter
recovered in a central located recovery bay in the aft section. I don't
see that recovery would be all that difficult, it's seems to be essentially
a docking manuever. Match attitude and vectors and you're recovered. Landing
on a floating carrier moving at a fraction of your speed, fighting gravity,
wind, weather, the sea, this seems to be an almost impossible task in
comparision.

Steve Deemer
stedee@auto-trol.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Sep 1995 16:55:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alvin Plummer <alvin.plummer@sheridanc.on.ca>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Regency/Zhodani: take two
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91.950905152602.18050A-100000@hubble.sheridanc.on.ca>

O.K.: I got some good responses from this article: Django especially 
taught me to have a bit more respect for our Zho friends.

Outtakes, responses and commentary below.


> From: "Upton, Django" <DUpton@vtrnntov.telecom.com.au>

>> From me...
>>  --------------------------
>> I think it would be interesting if the Regency have asked for advise from
>> the Zho thought police on how to best tame the Wilds, and the best use of
>> psions in that task. After all, many of the problems of the Wilds stem
>> from having the wrong mental attitude...

Well, I still think that it would be interesting, but it really depends on 
how the local's will react to psionic personnel.  Can the Regency Mental 
Health Corps work covertly, without provoking a harsh anti-psion 
reaction?  I doubt it: but even Regency psions should still remember how 
to mount covert operations like this?

>> 
>> Third, Zho reaction to new Regency technology.  The Regency, like the
>> Imperium before it, has always maintained a definite technological edge
>> over the Zho's.  Now that they can freely apply technology to psionics,
>> they should have by now created/are creating a new host of psi drougs and
>> boosters, which can certainly produce a threat to the Zhodani nobility.
>> They may maintain their trade restrictions vis-a vis the Regency long
>> after the threat of Virus receed, persicely for this reason.

> 
> And prehaps the Regency maintained trade restrictions to retain their 
> technological edge.
Ohh, touche!   (Well, I deserved it.... still Imperialcentric, as always.)

> I think that after the Virus threat was explained the ever pragmatic Zhodani 
> would trade high tech for psi skills and gain an interest in any psi 
> projects the regency undertook.

Maybe... tech-for-psi trades are certainly worth pursuing.

Currently, it seems that Regency/Zho borders are tightly controlled, 
though without the Cold War attitudes of yesteryear.  I expect them to 
start loosening, however: the Zho's ARE the dominant human culture in 
existance right now, and the Regency is the inferior partner until they 
can properly shape up old Imperial space again, which will take quite a 
bit of time and money....

The Zho's would be DEFINITELY interested in any major psi research the 
Regency takes on.  How would all this Regency/Zho psionic interaction 
would fall out is worth a sourcebook in itself.

>> 
>>  ---------------------------
>> The Zho's are also watchful of Regency psions: depending on how they
>> develop, they can provide a welcome mat for eventual incorporation of the
>> Regency into the Consulate, or become a seroius security threat to the
>> Zhodani.  Knowing how those crazy, anti-authoritartian Solomani's are,
>> the answer is probably the latter.  Will the psions discover methods that
>> the Zho's overlooked?  Will they develop the Zho's greatest nightmare:
>> Psions who can lie undetectably?  Will Regency technology create psionic
>> machines?  Will psionics become available to anyone, or be selectable in
>> vitro?
>>  -------------------------

> I thought Zhodani R&D in psionics was pretty good actually.

Hell, I don't know!  I'm just operating on the assumption that the Zho's 
are a smart, but static culture.  They created a workable system of 
psionic government that works for them, are quite stable and secure, and 
still have some drive left in them (those Core Expeditions, you know).

An Ancient, psionic China/Egypt is the 'lens' I tend to view them with.

> Undetectable Psions? Time to re-read Dune books and Phil K. Dick ;-)
> Psionic machines like the ALREADY PRODUCED psionic shield helmets?

Well, no.  I was thinking more along the 'fear robots' in the Uplift War.
(Blast, forgot the arthur's name!  David Birn, I guess...)

You know, in the book, they radiate a 'sphere of fear' that inhibit's 
trespassers.

On the subject, apparently the Imperium actualy created a psionic 
computer, shown in Smash and Grab. What did it do?

Moreover, what stuff would you want a psionic computer to do?  Well, Lie 
detection sound's great, but I think that the Imperium actually made a TL 
F robot that was a perfect lie dectector, using only physical, 
non-psionic information. (There was some controversy as to whether this 
robot should be allowed to be used in trials and suchlike.)
  
Hmmm, what else?  If the energy used in psionic telekensis, matter 
manipulation, and teleportation is less costly than using ho-hum,  
non-psionic methods, things can get very interesting ("Indistinguisable 
from magic" indeed!)  Seeing that Traveller is only vaguely hard-SF right 
now, perhaps we shouldn't push it over the edge into fantasy land.

But we may have to, if instead of developing psionic robots (HIGHLY 
unlikely in the current enviroment), the Regency develop psionic animals 
instead for use in industry...

(Last time I heard, psionics != intelligence)

> I thought the Zho's tested at or after birth, not in vitro.

I learn something new every day.


>> And just how adaptable are the Zhos to any unexpected challange, anyway?
>> 
>> Points against: as a culture, they're older than Ancient Egypt.  This
>>                 implies SEROIUS cultural rigidity.

This, I suspect, is the worst strike against them.  The same patterns of 
thought, and the same responses to problems would be ingrained inth their 
way of thinking. (Ie: the Chinese quite deliberately retarded their 
technological development during the Manchu (?) Dynasty.  And Egyptian 
society stayed WAYYYYY too long in the stone age, with an intellectual 
world that took one rigid form and stayed there for millennia) 

>> 
>>                 they have been dependent on Psionic Rule since -7000
>>                 Imperial.
>> 
>>                 they have no knowledge of artifically-produced psionics
>>                 (though they know it can be done, thanks to certain 
>>                 Ancient artifacts.

> Not that anybody else (grandfather aside) does either...

Gramps is the thermonuclear detonator in the Traveller universe, quietly 
ticking away in the closet...

(Anyone wants to hazzard a guess on what cute little surprise he left for 
the Zhodani at the Galactic Core?)

>>  -----------------------
>> Point for:      they have managed to avoid total dependence on psionics
>

Actually, I should stress this more than I did.  It seems extremely 
important to me that the Zho's didn't close off technological development 
as a possible threat to their authority, but instead learned to use it 
and make it a complement to their psionic civilization.  This implies an 
intelligency and broadmindedness that the Imperials (and ex-Imperials) 
would do well to imitate.

Them Zhos ain't stupid, even if they haven't thought of anything new in 
c.2000 years.... (which isn't true: some development had to occur in 
order for them to create a successful response to Third Imperium 
expansionism)

>  -----------------------
> Personal guess: remember what happened when the Europeans contacted the
> Indians?  Or when the Solomani hit the Vilani?  I think that we are going
> to see a repeat of this in a century or two...
>  -----------------------
> 
> The Regency on the Zhodani or the Zhodani on the rest of Humanity?

And that is the 64,000 Cr question...

> From: Ethan Henry <ehenry@magmacom.com>

> Alvin Plummer writes:
> > 
> > Third, Zho reaction to new Regency technology.  [blahblahblah]

> Don't forget, the Imperium had a systematic supression of ANYTHING to
> do with psionics since the 700's. Chances are that Zho psi drug technology
> is several TLs above anything in Imperial space at its peak, much less
> in the New Era(tm). Also, the remnants of Imperial pharmacaetical (sp?)
> corps would have been avoiding psi-drug research for centuries, or at 
> least have been doing it under the table, so would have very little base
> to start working from once attitudes towards psionics change.

One megacorp (whatitsname again? It was in Citizens of the Imperium) was 
developing psi-boosters in the Marches, pre-Fifth Frontier War (c. 1100 ?) 

You're quite correct: the Zho's top TL ts 15, the Regency's 16.  But the 
Zho's have been doing psi-boosters for thousands of years, longer than 
the Imperium even existed!  I'd put Zho psibooster tech at 15, but 
Regency booster-tech at, maybe 12?

> > The Zho's are also watchful of Regency psions: depending on how they 
> > [blahblahblah]

> I doubt that the Regency is very close to doing anything on the psi-technology
> frontier, unless they bring in the basics from the Zhos first.

For the reason noted in the previous paragraph, you're right on.  And I'd 
like to see the bill the Zho's will charge for this psionic technology...

> Also, the overall amount of psi-related activity in the Regency is nothing 
> compared to its everyday use in the Consulate, so even from the same
> starting point, I think the Zhos would outpace any Imperial remnant state
> in terms of psi-related development.

Check.

>  
> > And just how adaptable are the Zhos to any unexpected challange, anyway?  
> > 
> > Points against: as a culture, they're older than Ancient Egypt.  This 
> >                 implies SEROIUS cultural rigidity.
> 
> But it's a culture that has lasted that long in the face of many changes.
> That imples a fair amount of cultural flexibility. 

Sorry, on this one point I've got to disagree with you.  Yes, they are 
flexible enough to at least respond to the Imperials correctly, basically 
intimidating them and holding them off until they rip themselves apart.  

My real obsession is with the psion/non-psion class differences 
within the Consulate, and the consequenses of the Regency developing a 
method of creating / making availabel psionic talents in previously 
non-talented folk. What's the possibility of this?  Fairly high: the 
Regency crew have a serious desire to 'spread the wealth' around, while 
the Zho's had the opposite goal.

It's this point that I'm trying to get at.  If there is no method of 
artifically creating and manipulating psionics, the Regency has lost it's 
independenct and culture, and should learn to become a good, reliable 
Zhodani ally.  If there is a method, the Regency will tend to be the 
first to discover and popularize it: this could bring down the Consulate 
very nicely.  Their cultural rigidity, their dependence on a single, 
small group of (largely) psionic nobles, is both their greatest strength 
(making internal rebellion impossible) and their greatest weakness.

* * * * * * * * * 

> From: Christopher_Griffen@dmcwave.com (Christopher Griffen)
> Subject: Regency Sourcebook primers...

>      I picked up a few tidbits about the long-awaited Regency Sourcebook 
>      that we're all clamoring about.

Give me more! More! MOOORREEE!!!!

>      Mora has been elevated to tech level 16.  I think this is the only 
>      world to be elevated as such.  

You mean that the Regency-1200 files at ghost are nothing but a cruel 
hoax?!? AAAHhhhhhgh!

I need this book NOW!

>      The book details all the subsectors of the Regency and not just the 
>      Spinward Marches as I had been led to believe some time back.

I need this book NOW!

 
> Now I'm anticipating this darn book even more!  I hope it makes its mid-
> September ship date.

(Grumble, mumble, grumble...)


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alvin Plummer
"Preserve what we created, Norris, and remember what we stood for."
                               - Strephon, 179-1126

Reply to: alvin.plummer@SHERIDANC.ON.CA
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

End of TRAVELLER Digest 403
***************************
