Traveller-digest        Monday, June 22 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 600



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Nobles in the Spinward Marches
Sensor Spoofs and Jump Capacitors
Re: Armed merchants
EAST EUROPE
Re: Armed merchants
Re: Weapon Question
Re: Armed merchants
Re: Sensor Spoofs and Lasers
Imperium
Re: Weapon Question
Re: Sensor Spoofs and Lasers
Re: radiators and sensor spoofs
Fwd: Survey time
Re: Traveller Mag/Survey
Re: Weapon Question
Re: Vargr Tech levels (was RE: Armed merchants)
Re: Traveller MacOS Software
Re: Armed merchants

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 16:48:20 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Nobles in the Spinward Marches

>Peter H. Brenton writes:
>
>>Anyone know of a source for detailing the (upper) Nobility of the Spinward
>>Marches in, say, 1107 or so?  Either canon or IYTU?
>
>Your question inspired me to rough out the nobles of Norris' Duchy. I'll
>propably do the other duchies of the Spinward Marches by and by, but don't
>hold your breath waiting, this one took me most of an afternoon to do.

Thank you, this is approximatelay what I wanted.

> IMO
>there is no Duke of Aramis nor of Five Sisters and I haven't made up my
>mind about Lanth yet.

There is a Marquis of Aramis on Aramis (source: The Traveller Adventure).

What is your criteria for deciding whether there is a noble over a
particular area?  Population?

Pete


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 17:40:17 -0400
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: Sensor Spoofs and Jump Capacitors

Continueing my idea about making average ships sneaky at higher
tech levels:

If a chameleon skin can absorb or at least disrupt radar *and*

Said chameleon skin can make itself dark enough so a skywatch
automated telescope won't find it right away *and*

Neutrino sensors are only good at short ranges *then*

**The only thing that makes a starship easy to see at long ranges
when it's trying to be sneaky is it's heat signature.

Someone asked, "Why not make a tube shaped starship, radiate the
heat into the middle and fly away, leaving the heat behind?"

A cartoon physics idea, but it got me wondering...then Hans mentioned
an idea for a subspace heat sink to solve the radiator problem. Then 
I thought of something else on a starship that's often used as an energy
sink in combat: the Jump Drive Capacitors.

Usually, the Jump Drive Capacitors are filled very quickly from the Jump
Drives, burning fuel at phenomenal speed in a particular way. A Black
Globe can dump power into them from battle damage, energy that must
eventually be vented away somehow. Why couldn't other devices on the
ship dump power to the Jump Drive Capacitors as well?

For example: A ship wants to run silent in a star system. The Engineer
is in the drive room just before jump exit, his hand hovering over a
power-down switch. The moment the Navigator tells him they are clear
of the jump field, he cuts the power plant to a minimum output - barely
enough to keep the fusion initiator hot. The Pilot tunes the Chameleon
Hull to a nice black of interstellar space, with radar absorbance and/or
disruption on. All the waste heat from life support, engineering, even that
taken in by the hull trickles slowly into the Jump Drive Capacitors. The
exterior of the ship is dark, radar-invisible, radio-silent and _cold_. 
Slowly, the Jump Drive Capacitors fill up with energy - random energy,
about as useful to the jump drives as random assortments of 1's and 0's
are to a computer. Does it take days, or weeks for the capacitors to fill?
Perhaps even months? The ship, meanwhile, is nearly invisible to long
range sensors. Detection ranges, at least for adventurer-size ships like
Traders and Corsairs, drops astronomically.

Eventually the Capacitors must discharge - too long, and degeneration
of the Zuchai Crystals will begin. A jump with a cracked crystal can be
deadly, of course. Do we discharge by warming up the jump drives and 
making a sub-entry field, one that hasn't the fuel to open the bubble?
The ship would spend no fuel, go nowhere, but would probably radiate
like crazy for a while. And woe to the ship caught with Capacitors full
of "junk" energy - she'll have to clear the array, and the Engineer will
want full system checks before she'll jump safely. Will the jump drive
work properly if it must create a sub-entry field, then do a proper jump
sequence with the Capacitors filling in seconds? Imagine if the 
Capacitors hadn't fully discharged when the jump fuel starts burning - 
the explosion as the array overloads might be interesting to watch
from afar.

To make this work, Zuchai Crystals must be able to hold a charge for
a relatively long period of time. Perhaps a low level of charge (the "junk
energy" converted from hull heat and waste heat) will fill the array at
a certain energy level, and at this energy level the Crystals will be
relatively stable. A jump, on the other hand, requires the Crystals to be
clear of energy so they can be taken to a particular, high, unstable energy
level - if they aren't clear, the energy level will be too high and the state
of the Crystals will be too unstable to be useful, or safe.

This leads to the idea that it's dangerous to hold a low charge in these
things all the time. Jump Capacitors are designed to be used for minutes
every month (Jump Initiation), not days or weeks. Keeping a lower "junk"
charge in them won't strain them much - nowhere near as much, for
example, as trying to hold a full jump initiation's worth of energy in them.
It will still strain them over an extended period of time.

Hmmm...maybe this would also apply to derelict starships. The ship is
sitting there getting differentially radiated, the heat eventually moving this
way and that throughout the hull materials. If the Zuchai Crystals in the
derelict are energy sinks, maybe they'd fill up to a certain low level of
"junk" energy, and have to be cleared before use - or increase the chance
of misjump, as holding that tiny charge for years (centuries?) will
eventually strain the Crystals.


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 17:40:05 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Armed merchants

Hello,
>From: Steve Rennell <wulf@sea.southern.co.nz>
>Subject: Re: Armed merchants
>
>> >From: Steve Rennell <wulf@sea.southern.co.nz>
>> >IMO the most likely pirate vessel is an armed merchant, 
>> >simply because it can "swim with the other fish", has guns, 
>> >and cargo space to drag the prizes away. 
>
>Steven Hudson replied: 
>>   Ooh, a potential convert!
>
>? What exactly do you mean by this ? :-)

  You mean you don't have the "Secret Language: Pirates" skill? :)
Actually, I suggested this as a possible source of ship thefts (and
thus _potential_ pirate encounters for the wandering monster charts)
back in November or so. I'm afraid that I haven't expanded much on it
since, although it's still on my list of things to do.

>> There's no way that CT/Mayday contact / proximity
>> HE/"focussed charge" missiles can work or would exist
>> given what we know now, and using the rules since
>> enshrined in various design sequences. 
>
>I have missed this - why wouldn't a Shaped charge contact 
>missile work in a vacuum? 1 Atmosphere difference shouldn't 
...

  The warhead can be frozen jello given the approach velocities in all but
a stern chase; KE is a more than adequate contact kill mechanism. My point
is that the problem isn't the warhead, but getting to under several thousands
of kilometers range, when even a small AT or squad support laser hooked up to
decent sensors will merrily gut the missile, let alone normal CT starship
turret lasers. 

...
>Definitely keeping Nukes out of the hands of civies is a 
>high priority. (But then, a seriously abused fission 
>reactor can cause a pretty mess in the park-bay too).

  True. Of course even a Seeker with empty bays can simulate a fusion
bomb attack by simply dropping like a (nickel-iron?) rock - thus the
belief in some quarters that traffic control on all but true backwaters
will be quite significant.

        Yours truly,
                Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 04:34:42 -0700
From: "Leonard N. Vulpe" <leo@mail.matco.ro>
Subject: EAST EUROPE

Hello!

If you ever:

Need accomodation in Romania...
Need transportation and/or guide...

Please visit our page at:
http://members.tripod.com/~EnjoyRomania/index.htm

Thank you for your time and have a nice day!

Leonard Fox
Enjoy Romania Ltd.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 18:46:23 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Armed merchants

Hello,
>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
>Subject: Re: Armed merchants
...
>And IMO it's a most unlikely pirate vessel because it leaves a broad paper
>trail whenever it is "swimming with the other fish", cannot earn money as
>a merchant when it is pirating or as a pirate when it is trading, is either
>no stronger than its prey or much more expensive, and can have several
>year's profits wiped out by one lucky shor by an opponent.

  Reviving the hypothetical "pirate of opportunity", you take a merchant
(note: I didn't specify "honest merchant") with a tramp/free trader on the
periphery, who only commits an act of piracy if presented with an excellent
opportunity and otherwise conducts a career as a conventional freighter / 
trader business.

  This creates a sizable pool of potential "pirates" who will never have
committed an act of piracy, and may never attempt to do so. Ideally, the
merchant has some experience with basic criminal activities (smuggling, 
mostly) and contacts derived therefrom, as this helps greatly with the
disposal of the newly acquired assets (see below).

>The bottom line is that I don't think a pirate can earn enough money to
>make piracy profitable if he sticks to taking random cargoes, can't
>catch specific targets, and will have a lot of trouble fencing something
>as readily identifiable as a starship.

  Only the last really matters to a opportunistic pirate who has succeeded
in capturing a victim. If realizing a profit from such a starship (potentially
a year or two after the actual seizure) can't be achieved through organized
crime (not necessarily a pirate "band") then the capital and infrastructure
for most of the other forms of piracy probably don't exist - which is a thesis
with which I would take issue.

>Nobody claimed that the Empire could guarantee all vessels' safety. Just
>that piracy in the CT universe is not a money-making proposition.

  I agree, with the proviso that at least systematic piracy (which is
what many people seem to expect) doesn't seem to be practical under most
circumstances.

        Yours truly,
                Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 16:17:37 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Weapon Question

In mail you write:

> I have a question on Particle Accelerators and Meson Guns for an upcoming
> installment in my PBEM.
>
> If a PA or MG is fired at a target in an atmosphere;
>
> A:  What kind of visual signature will they make both at impact/detonation
> and during projection from the weapon?

Meson Guns shouldn't have any sort of "signature" along the path. And
the detonation should look like any other sort of "high energy"
explosion. Up to and including a mushroom cloud if the blast breaks out
into open air.

Particle beams should be severely attenuated by the atmosphere, though
I suspect that the rules ignore or at least minimize this. In any case,
there will be *severe* ionization along the beam path. Think of it as
looking like a *bar* of lightning extending in a straight line from the
target to the edge of the atmosphere.

Yes, *straight*. Unless the planet has a truly *awesome* magnetic
field, it won't have a noticeable affect on the beam. By "awesome" I
mean something where magnetic field effects *dominate* movement on the
surface. 

> B:  What kind of radiaion is produced on the target and how long does it 
> last?

There may be some x-ray/gamma ray emmissions during the attack. But
neither beam involves the sort of thing that would induce radioactivity
in otherwise stable elements.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 16:32:44 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Armed merchants

In mail you write:

>> There's no way that CT/Mayday contact / proximity
>> HE/"focussed charge" missiles can work or would exist
>> given what we know now, and using the rules since
>> enshrined in various design sequences. 
>
> I have missed this - why wouldn't a Shaped charge contact 
> missile work in a vacuum? 1 Atmosphere difference shouldn't 
> have that much effect on its working, since most if not all 
> of the gas and plasma is provided internally to the shaped 
> charge. Of course, without the atmosphere to pass on the 
> shockwave the wave will be even more directional, but I 
> wouldn't expect it to spread much in the half meter or so 
> for optimal penetration. Proximity explosions are less 
> useful perhaps, but some modern Air-to-Air missiles get 
> their kills from launching shrapnel (in the classical 
> sense) at the target in an explosively propelled cone 
> pattern. (Claymores in space anyone?)

The problem isn't that the warheads don't work. It's that it's
effectively impossible to get them *close* enough. 

There are too reasons for this. First, point defense has a *major*
advantage, being able to nail most missiles *way* outside effective
range. 

Second, it's very, *very* hard to get a missile to impact or nearly
impact on a ship.

We did toss around an idea for a "nuclear clatmore" based on a design
posted on rec.arts.sf.science. Basicly you surround a nuclear warhead
with something that absorbs the X-rays from the bomb *very* well, and
converts to *very* energetic vapor. One good candidate is *styrofoam*! 

When the bomb goes off the styrofoam absorbs the energy and cobnverts
to vaopr, and that providers the mechanical energy to propel a whole
shitload of BBs to near C speeds. :-)

But even this has a low hit probability if detonated at a rang where
point defense won't have fried it yet.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 21:25:37 -0500
From: Michael Croft <croft@neosoft.com>
Subject: Re: Sensor Spoofs and Lasers

Has anyone considered using David Brin's idea from _Sundiver_ for heat
dissipation?

I don't quite get the physics, but it sounds like they're pumping millions
of degrees into a laser and just firing it off to get rid of it.

Here are some questions about using this design.

It might have a minumum temperature to activate, which might make it
difficult to implement on a ship.

It must be fired somewhere.  3 years later they know what you're doing a
parsec away.

It probably needs superconductors to pump all the energy away from the hull.

I don't know how detectable it would be off-beam.

But if it works, then you could effectively mask your heat signature in a
way that would make it difficult to detect you except by occultation.

Any comments?
Michael Croft                 mailto:croft@neosoft.com
http://www.neosoft.com/~croft mailto:jcroft@carman.com
- --

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:14:00 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Imperium

If anyone is interested, MPGN.COM will let you play an online version of
GDW's Imperium for free. Now if I could just find an opponent or three...
email me if interested, I'd love to try this game online.

Walt Smith
smithw@hartwick.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:41:18 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: Weapon Question

Leonard,

Thanks for the answer to my question!  I am running a PBEM and the players
may be encountering one of these weapons and the current turn wraps up
tomorrow evening, you really helped me with what they might be seeing.

Thanks again, 


Kurt Feltenberger
kurt@blazenet.net



http://www.igateway.com/clients/kurt/mp  Morrow Project Site

http://www.igateway.com/clients/kurt/pj PJ the Welsh Terrier Site

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:44:29 -0400
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Sensor Spoofs and Lasers

Michael Croft wrote:

> Has anyone considered using David Brin's idea from _Sundiver_ for heat
> dissipation?
>
> I don't quite get the physics, but it sounds like they're pumping millions
> of degrees into a laser and just firing it off to get rid of it.

I think the problem is getting heat into a higher energy wavelength.  If you can
figure out how to get it into the light range, then you could probably get it
into a higher range.  I think there's also a conservation of energy problem
involved as well.

What you could do is soak up all the heat, then dump it into the liquid hydrogen
just before injecting it into the HEPlaR thrusters. Of course, there'd still  be
a noticable heat trail from the thrusters.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 23:00:37 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: radiators and sensor spoofs

At 01:11 AM 6/21/98 -0500, you wrote:

Radiator talk snipped

>Of course, now radiator surfaces become interesting targets for
>anything that can "scrub" a surface.  Knock out the radiators and the
>ship you're fighting has to cut power or die.  Knock out enough
>radiators and the ship can't fight or flee.  

I do not know wheather this is a doable scenario, but in Brin's _Sundiver_,
he had the excess heat used to power a laser that dispensed the energy.  Is
this tecno fantasy, or is it possible?

Kurt Feltenberger
kurt@blazenet.net



http://www.igateway.com/clients/kurt/mp  Morrow Project Site

http://www.igateway.com/clients/kurt/pj PJ the Welsh Terrier Site

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 23:52:31 EDT
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: Survey time

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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From: Kagekiha@aol.com
Return-path: <Kagekiha@aol.com>
To: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: Survey time
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 23:50:16 EDT
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From: Kagekiha@aol.com
Return-path: <Kagekiha@aol.com>
To: tne-rces@tower.ml.org
Subject: Survey time
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 02:14:56 EDT
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

	There has been some discussion about trying to do an electronically based
magazine again (btw this would probably be a TNE based zine, at least to start
off with).

	The possible formats are:
1.	CD-ROM
2.	Floppy Disk
3.	Web based.

	How much would you be willing to pay for a sub:
1.	$40-$50
2.	$20
3.	$10

	Would you be interested in submitting material:
1.	Yes
2.	No


	What would you like to see?




	Additional comments:



	Please email replies privately so as not to waste bandwidth for others.

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 01:18:00 EDT
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller Mag/Survey

In a message dated 6/21/98 9:21:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Sethkimmel
writes:

	[[ I think it would be a mistake to limit the magazine to just TNE. I think
you should cover all 4 games, so everybody who plays a form of Traveller (I as
an example, am only interested in CT, and MT to a lesser degree) will be
interested, as they will all have something they are interested in. I think
one of the first articles should be a CT-MT-TNE-T4 conversion guide;
especially for spaceships, vehicles, and equipment.]]



	My fault, I meant to expand it to cover all systems. The initial survey was
just to test a more limited forum, but snce the response is somewhat better
than expected, I expanded the survey.

	BTW, a conversion guide would be arranged, somehow.

Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 01:39:02 -0500
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@fastlane.net>
Subject: Re: Weapon Question

At 01:35 AM 6/21/1998 -0400, you wrote:
>I have a question on Particle Accelerators and Meson Guns for an upcoming
>installment in my PBEM.
>
>If a PA or MG is fired at a target in an atmosphere;
>
>A:  What kind of visual signature will they make both at impact/detonation
>and during projection from the weapon?
>
>B:  What kind of radiaion is produced on the target and how long does it
last?
>
>Thanks! 
>
>Kurt Feltenberger
>kurt@blazenet.net
>
>
>
>http://www.igateway.com/clients/kurt/mp  Morrow Project Site
>
>http://www.igateway.com/clients/kurt/pj PJ the Welsh Terrier Site
> 
There were two articles about particle accelerators published in old issues
of JTAS.  Issue 13 had "Charged Particle Accelerator Weapons" by Dave Emigh
(who was consulted about these weapons for High Guard) and "Spinal Mounts
Revisited" by Jim Cumber in issue 20.

The article by Dave Emigh is more about the technical side of how C-PAWS
work, and a little bit about the Meson gun.

The article by Jim Cumber talks about the C-PAWS weapon and how for the
most part it is an atmosphere use weapon only, and the N-PAWS, which is
strictly a space based weapon system.
The way he explained it, the C-PAWS (or Charged-Particle Accelerator Weapon
System) uses charged particles which stay together in an atmosphere,
"because atmospheric pressure acts to keep the beam of mutually repelling
vharged particles together."  "In the vacuum of space...the particles fan
out as soon as they leave the muzzle of the weapon..."
The N-PAWS (or Neutral-Particle Accelerator Weapon System) uses a stream of
high speed chargeless neutrons.  This makes it ideal for space, but "the
neutron beam of the N-PAWS is absorbed and limited by the atmosphere (but
is ideal in space)."
He then goes on to talk about some of the developments of the early 80's
byt both the Soviet and the U.S. developers, and theoretical problems the
N-PAWS would have when targeting nuclear weapons.  Briefly, instead of
exploding and blowing away most of the sub critical mass (his example was a
57 kg. Titan I C-4 missile, that he says only 4.66 GRAMS of which is
converted to energy).  According to the theory the N-PAWS would cause an
implosion of the subcrit mass, thus a normal yield 5 kiloton warhead could
produce an explosion in excess of 165 megatons.
     Another thing he brings up is an explanation of the A-PAWS
(Anti-Matter-Particle Accelerator Weapon System) and its associated High
Guard stats.  The editors note at the front of the article cautioned
restraint on the part of referees who wished to use this weapon, as it
might unbalance game play.

Oh well, I've rambled on enough and its getting quite late.


Jimmy Simpson
	nimrodd@fastlane.net
"Cannot say.
 Saying, I would know.
 Do not know.
 So cannot say."
		-Zathras (Babylon 5)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 23:39:25 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Vargr Tech levels (was RE: Armed merchants)

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote

> > At 02:03 AM 6/20/98 -0800, you wrote:
> >
> > >0439   A000000-G       Lo nIn As       220 Va K8 V M7 D
> >
> > An entire system with TWO Vargr at TL16?!  
> 
> Sure. I think Vargr are *particularly* suited to the "Mad Scientist"
> career. After all, isn't one of the common lines "Now I'll get some
> respect. I'll show them!"
> 
> Sounds to me like a Vargr deciding to raise his charisma the hard way.
> :-)

So can you write up the "Mad Scientist" career for Vargr, maybe by
taking the scientist career and adding lots of bells and whistles [dog
whistles of course].  Naturally I would suggest using Pinky and the
Brain, Dr Frankenstein and Igor as seen in Mel Brook's Young
Frankenstein or _any_ scientist from 1889 as role models for these
charecters.

What are we going to do tonight?  The same thing we do every night -
plot to take over the galaxy.

Those of you interested in an alternate tech Traveller universe could
rule that Vargr "Mad Scientists" are actually like Tinker Gnomes in AD&D
or Magi in the World of Darkness and they can make things happen simply
because they _believe_ that they will happen.

How about a variant Traveller universe background in which jump space
only works because people believe that it will work and in which the
Vilani got their jump drive from Vargr "Ancient Astronauts".

[Ducks rapidly]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 09:52:54 +0100 (BST)
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Traveller MacOS Software

>BTW, has anyone run Infini-V on a G3 Mac?
>
>Dom

I have three sitting next to me if you would like me to try, and I had a
copy ....

	Ewan Quibell
	Data Communications Technician        The Game's afoot:
	Computer Centre                       Follow your spirit, and apon
	University of Brighton                  this charge
                                              Cry 'God for Harry, England,
	E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              and Saint George !'

                                                    Henry V 3:1
	#include<stddisclamer.h>                    W. Shakespeare

	My spelling is entierly due to dyslexia, typoes and poetic license

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:01:36 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Armed merchants

Steve Rennell writes:

>>Steve Rennell writes:
>>>IMO the most likely pirate vessel is an armed merchant, simply because it
>>>can "swim with the other fish", has guns, and cargo space to drag the
>>>prizes away.
> 
>Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>replied> 
>>And IMO it's a most unlikely pirate vessel because it leaves a broad paper
>>trail whenever it is "swimming with the other fish", cannot earn money as
>>a merchant when it is pirating or as a pirate when it is trading, is either
>>no stronger than its prey or much more expensive, and can have several
>>year's profits wiped out by one lucky shor by an opponent.
> 
>Ah, but at least I'm avoiding the problem of where exactly the pirate ship
>was built... (Which I couldn't think of a convincing argument for)

If you could come up with a convincing scheme for making piracy profitable
as a business venture, I'd be inclined to take the where is it built
question on faith. I firmly believe that if it is profitable, someone will
find a way to do it, no matter how illegal. It dosen't even have to be
consistently profitable. All it has to do is show a profit on the average.

>It also seems that most of your other problems are the same for more
>specialised pirate vessels, the only major exception being the "No stronger 
>than it's prey or more expensive". That's why I would tend to have a
>merchant unload a collection of fighters to do the fighting, and show up
>after the mess is dealt with to collect the bits. That assumes there is
>time to deal with it, but that's life.

Fighters cost money. And remember, we're talking CT rules. That means that
a merchant with even a Model 1 computer is at an advantage over a fighter.
Unless the fighter has a superior computer. And if I was a pirate and
could afford a high-factor computer, I'd install it in my ship. That's
what I was primarily referring to when I said that an effective pirate
would cost more money. That and the maneuver drive. A pirate needs a
maneuver drive that's faster than 1G, otherwise he will find it difficult
to chase down any prey. But a faster maneuver drive costs more money and
required a larger power plant, which costs yet more money. It also reduces
cargo space, making the pirate unable to make a living running normal
freight and also unable to pass an onboard inspection without arousing
suspicion. Oh, and a "merchant" carrying fighters will have even less
cargo space and appear even more suspicious. 

>Exactly. It would also make it hard for the pirates to source weaponry
>from anywhere inside the Empire. Since that doesn't happen, I see it as
>giving some information about how the Empire is run.

Sure, but what information? And does that information make sense or not?

>>>If Piracy is so impossible, then why do most of the canon ship designs have
>>>weapons?
>> 
>>Because the canon describes an invented universe that dosen't have a built
>>in guarantee that it all makes sense?
> 
>I would tend to agree, but I'd start in a different place than deciding
>that piracy doesn't make sense.

I didn't start by deciding that. I ended up concluding it. I _like_ pirates.
Back when I ran a naval campaign in Five Sisters and District 268 I had the
players going up against several pirate gangs. I just happen to believe
that in order to use pirates I have to ignore several logical ramifications
of the CT background. If you could show me differently I'd be thrilled.

>I have a great deal of faith in the inventiveness of criminals (or perhaps
>their inability to realistically evaluate risk/benefit) and I believe that
>given most sets of affordable (both in cost and usability of the system)
>security measures by the Empire, someone will figure a way around it.

And I believe that if the purpose is to prevent pirates from stealing ships,
the funds available is enough to pay for effective prevention while if the
purpose is to prevent the pirates from capturing random cargoes then the
pirates can't steal enough to pay their expenses. And finally that pirates
can't target specific ships with extra valuable cargoes.

>I've done enough security of buildings to realise that most systems can be
>got past if you have enough information, and that information is the key.

Sure, if you want to disrupt merchant shipping, you can do it. But can you
make a living at the same time?

>>Nobody claimed that the Empire could guarantee all vessels' safety. Just
>>that piracy in the CT universe is not a money-making proposition.
>
>In General, neither is bank robbery in the real world. It still happens.

Yes, but a handgun dosen't cost tens of millions of dollars and the
ammunition dosen't cost hundreds of thousand dollars. Nor are you
required to use use a personally-owned gold-plated Cadillac for a
get-away car. Basically I think that if you need to invest millions
in order to attempt a crime, most of the amateurs is sort of barred
from the start.

>What I'm suggesting is that one of the reasons the Empire would allow
>civilians to carry ship-to-ship weapons is to fight off pirates, and that 
>would only happen if pirates were common enough to be a realistic threat.

This keeps comming up. Somehow people seems to think that the canonical
existense of armed merchants _prove_ that pirates are common in the CT
universe. So it does. Not that you need to prove that pirates are common
in the CT universe, because there is plenty of other evidence, from the
starship encounter tables to the TAS Newsbriefs, to show that they are.
But what is does NOT prove is that said pirates make economic sense.
Yes, if pirates are common, then it makes sense for merchant ships to be
armed. But does it make sense for pirates to be common if merchant ships
are armed?

>>It's true that the details can vary a lot, but so far I haven't seen any
>>consistent set of details that makes piracy lucrative. 
> 
>I don't expect it to be lucrative. I expect enough people to get away with
>it that the soap-operas still refer to it romantically, and the criminally
>inclined might believe their chances are better than they actually are.

Sure. The ordinary criminal dope. But how many multimillionaire criminal
dopes do you believe there would be?

>And isn't part of your argument that if they get away with it once that
>makes it lucrative enough to spend Mcr hunting the pirates down?
>(Apologies if I've mixed your argument up with someone elses).

Well, that's one of the arguments I've used. But you see, the problem is
that I believe that it's not any single factor that makes piracy
unprofitable, it's a combination of factors. And many of them are undefined. 
So we get discussions about whether a pirate would take the whole ship
with him or just stick to cargoes. But those factors are interrelated.
And they all boil down to economics. IF a pirate can take the ship with him
AND is able to sell it for something not TOO far below its true value, THEN
piracy is a profitable enterprise. BUT, if pirates can take the whole ship,
then preventing the loss of even one ship a year will justify a lot of
security measures that would not otherwise be reasonable. Preventing the
losses that the canonical crop of pirates would inflict would pay for even
more. A lot more. And I believe that those security measures would make it
difficult for a pirate to capture a ship in the first place and to sell a
captured ship for anything close to the true value in the second place.

Perhaps I should reformulate my thesis: Yes, if piracy is really uncommon,
the security measures would eventually sink to a point where an occasional
pirate attack would occur. But the equilibrium would lie a lot lower than
the amount of piracy portrayed in CT sourses.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #600
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Monday, June 22 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 601



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Sensor Spoofs and Lasers
Re: Shaped Charge / HEAT in Vacuum
Re: Nobles of the Spinward Marches
Re: Armed merchants
Re: Sensor Spoofs and Lasers
Re: Nobles of the Spinward Marches
TL-15 Long Liner
Re: Sensor Spoofs and Lasers
Re: radiators and sensor spoofs
Re: Weapon Question
Personal Computers and Super Computers [LONG]
Re: Traveller Mag/Survey 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 23:42:28 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Sensor Spoofs and Lasers

In mail you write:

> Has anyone considered using David Brin's idea from _Sundiver_ for heat
> dissipation?
>
> I don't quite get the physics, but it sounds like they're pumping millions
> of degrees into a laser and just firing it off to get rid of it.

Even Brin admits that it wouldn't really work. He needed a "magic"
device to get rid of heat so he wrote something that sounded good.

The problem is that heat is *high* entropy, and laser beams are *low*
entropy. You can't get there from here.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:39:15 +0200
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Shaped Charge / HEAT in Vacuum

>Here I am again with my question :
>" Could this function in Vacuum ??"
>Could the plasma jet of a shaped charge warhead be built up and focused
>in vacuum???
>IMO yes.
>But which would be the effects of it on armor!
>I mean could it stay focused with the flow pressure required to breach
>armor ( IIRC about
>10E+5 bar,  8230 m/sec ), or will the stream disperse quickly because of
>the lack
>of the exterior atmospheric pressure!
>Bernouli says atmospheric pressure has negligiblen effect! ( if I did
>right :-) )!!!
>
>Nikos

I'd say (from the top of my head) that HEAT would work in vacuum but self
forging warheads would not.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:42:35 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Nobles of the Spinward Marches

Peter H. Brenton writes:

>Thank you, this is approximatelay what I wanted.

You're welcome ;-)!
 
>>IMO there is no Duke of Aramis nor of Five Sisters and I haven't made up
>>my mind about Lanth yet.
> 
>There is a Marquis of Aramis on Aramis (source: The Traveller Adventure).

Leonard Bolden-Tukera, Marquis of Aramis (system) and Baron of Lewis. 
 
>What is your criteria for deciding whether there is a noble over a
>particular area?  Population?

Sort of. I work out the minimum social rank (according to my own variant
system that has the Imperial nobility running from 24 to 33) of the ruler
of the planet (based on population, method of selection, and TL). If that
is 24 or more (not the case with any in the Duchy of Regina, btw.) and
the rulership is hereditary, that ruler gets an Imperial title. If he
is elected, selected, or appointed, the planet gets an Imperial noble
with at least that social rank (propably more). After that I use the same
numbers to decide how desirable each planet is to work out a suitable
feudal structure with a few counts per duke, a few marquesses per count,
and a few barons per marquis. I made Jewell a county not so much because
of the population as because there are only enough planets for four nobles.
The reason I don't think there is a Duke of Aramis (subsector) is partly
that even Junidy is a tad weak for a ducal planet, but mostly because we
are told that the Marquis of Aramis is a vassal of the Count of Celepina
who is in turn a vassal of the Duke of Rhylanor. That suggests to me
that there are no Duke of Aramis for the Marquis to be under. (And that's
also why I put Paya and Dhian under the Count of Rethe). The reason why I
don't think Five Sisters has a duke is that it is under naval administration.
The reason why I haven't made up my mind about Lanth is that I haven't
looked at it yet (in this context).


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:51:28 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Armed merchants

Steven Hudson writes:

>Reviving the hypothetical "pirate of opportunity", you take a merchant
>(note: I didn't specify "honest merchant") with a tramp/free trader on the
>periphery, who only commits an act of piracy if presented with an excellent
>opportunity and otherwise conducts a career as a conventional freighter / 
>trader business.

Said merchant is certainly possible, but he is not generally the one that
shows up in the starship encounter tables, nor is he generally one of those
pirates that buy Corsairs, nor one of those pirates we have seen in various
Traveller adventures.

Also, he has a computer no better than his prey, his maneuver drive is 1G,
his armament is the same as his potential prey's, and he leaves a broad
paper trail wherever he goes. 


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:52:23 +0200
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Sensor Spoofs and Lasers

>It probably needs superconductors to pump all the energy away from the hull.
>
>I don't know how detectable it would be off-beam.
>
>But if it works, then you could effectively mask your heat signature in a
>way that would make it difficult to detect you except by occultation.

Bruces ideas about pointing your heat dump panels away from your target
sounds vaguely similar to this. My main problem with Brins lasers is that
they are known to break with thermodynamics. Why not stick with our rather
hot radiators (2000 K) plates with Gallium as coolants?


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:05:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mathew Harelick <matth@CYBERNEX.NET>
Subject: Re: Nobles of the Spinward Marches

Hi: 

Hans: 

Do you have anything on line about your social ranks or a formalized
system of deciding on noble titles? 

I am looking for a good system that:
	a) Makes it very hard for a PC to be a noble based on his social
	class roll.
	b) Describes what a social of C means if the PC is not a knight. 



Matthew S. Harelick
http://www2.cybernex.net/~matth
matth@cybernex.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:51:22 -0400
From: "Svenson, Gregory (FL51)" <gsvenson@space.honeywell.com>
Subject: TL-15 Long Liner

I designed this ship using Andrew Akin's FF&S2 spreadsheet. This design
is based on the original Gold of Zurrian found in "The Early Adventures"
by DGP.

River of Gold, Gold of Zurrian class Long Liner RT (FF&S v2)

Designed by Greg Svenson, Svenson Small Craft, LIC


Statistics
Tons:	1000std ( SL Long Cylinder Hypersonic )
Crew:	4/16
Cargo:	168std (0/7 /Hdl:7x4ton)
Volume:	14000m3
Passengers High/Med:	24/24
Cost:	308.53 MCr
Mass (L/C):	7834t/4994t
Passengers Low:	0
Maintenance Points:	161
Dimensions:	59.8m x 17m x 17m
Troops/Science:	0/0
Tech Level:	15
Size:	9
Frozen Watch:	0

Electronics
Controls: Holographic, Standard automation. 3xComp (CM:0.25 CP:4.0).
          Terrain following sensors (TF:570, NOE:190). No Bridge.
Communications: 1xRadio (1,000AU, 0.2MW). 1xLaser (1,000AU, 0MW).
Sensors: 1xPEMS (13 [5mkm], 0MW). 1xAEMS (11.5 [.5mkm], 1MW).
         2xLIDAR (14.5 [500kkm], 0.5MW).
Survey/Science:
ECM:
Signatures: Vis:-0.5, IR:0 (0 at 206MW, 0 at 27MW), Act:0.5, Neu:0,
Grav:0

Weaponry
1xBeam Master Fire Directors (0MW 500,000km)
1xMissile Master Fire Directors (0MW 500,000km)
2xLight Laser Turret (230Mj) (+0) 1/1-1-1-1 [1,50/38-38-38-38] (LR)
2xMissile Turret Laun 1/0 ( /Mag:4)
 w/5 Command DetLaser1d6/2 6.0G12 1000AU

Performance
	4	Jump (100std/pc fuel)
	1/1.5	Maneuver (/Thruster:189MW)
	0/0	Contra-grav
1672kph/2524kph	Atmosphere (/Crus:1254kph/1893kph)
	1	Power (/Fis+:266.5MW,2190hr )
	0	Battery
	400	Fuel (/Scoop:1 /Purif:25,7MW)
13/26/25/0/0	Accomodations
	256	Life Sup. (/Ty:Ex,Gd /'St)
	1	G-Comp
	0	ESA
	3	Sandcasters ( /AV:40 /Cans:32)
	0	Damper Turrets
	0	Damper Screen 
	0	Meson Screen 
	0	Force Field
	0	Gravtics
	10 [40]	Armor, 20 Structure

Features
9xAirlock
1xDecontamination Airlock
1xDocking Umbilical
1xSickbay (8std ea.)
1xShip's locker (0.5std ea.)
1xArmory (0.14std ea.)
1xGym (2.5std ea.)
1xLounge(10std ea.)
1xStarlight Lounge(10std ea.)
1xStorage(0.12std ea.)
1xOrdinary Galley (Cap:16)
2xFull Galley (Cap:24)

Small Craft
1xMinHgr (20std, 1 hatches) for ships boat
1xMinHgr (2std, 1 hatches) for air raft
11xJetBay (2.75std) for 6 man life boats

Backups
Drives: 1xContraGrav 1G / 1.5G.
Screens:
Communications: 1xRadio (1,000AU). 1xLaser (1,000AU).
Sensors: 1xPEMS (12.5 [1.6mkm]). 1xAEMS (10).
Survey/Science:
ECM:
Power & Fuel:

Crew Details
2xMnvr. 1xEngr. 4xGunn. 3xScrn. 1xFlgt. 1xCmnd. 3xStew. 1xMed.

Design Notes:
The River of Gold is based on the Gold of Zurrian. It is created using
FF&S2. The original design of the Gold of Zurrian is presented in "The
Early Adventures" copyright by DGP. The River of Gold carries more
middle passengers and cargo than the original Gold of Zurrian. It costs
about 61 MCr more than the original, also.

The ContraGrav Lifters can be used when the laser turrets are not
operating. They allow the River of Gold to land on high gravity worlds.
The fuel scoops allow refueling at gas giants and the fuel purification
plant allows for the use of unrefined fuels.

There is a crew galley and two passenger's lounges. Each lounge comes
with it's own galley. One lounge is for high passengers and the other is
for middle passengers. High passengers have a large stateroom, as does
the Captain. Middle passengers have a small stateroom, as do the pilot
and navigator. The rest of the crew live in bunk rooms each having four
to five bunks.

There are sufficient life boats to evacuate all passengers and crew
members. The life boats each seat six and have provisions to last for 4
weeks. They include a fresher.

Greg Svenson
gsvenson@space.honeywell.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 09:12:18 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Sensor Spoofs and Lasers

> Has anyone considered using David Brin's idea from _Sundiver_ for heat
> dissipation?
>
> I don't quite get the physics, but it sounds like they're pumping millions
> of degrees into a laser and just firing it off to get rid of it.


This is hard to make work with lasers as we understand them; it's hard to 
drive a laser with heat (thermodynamically impossible, I think) rather than
a controlled input source (light of a certain wavelength, selected chemical
reactions etc.) It's also very inefficient, I think. 

Thermal masking in FFS2 does something slightly similar, though, in that
a ship with thermal masking runs its radiators hotter than a normal ship
(or has more radiator area available) and has the radiators baffled so that
each radiator only emits in a narrow cone; in combat, you shut down 
radiators you think are facing towards the enemy. It suffers somewhat in that
nothing (not even a laser) has a perfect cone - there's always some light 
spreading out in sidelobes. basic thermal masking has about 1% of all waste
heat leaking out the sides of cones where it can be seen; advanced has 0.1%;
extreme has 0.01%. So some of these ideas are present in FFS2 - and they
do help, but not infinitely.

>Said chameleon skin can make itself dark enough so a skywatch
>automated telescope won't find it right away *and*
This has to be pretty dark. Normal chameleon skins in FFS2 are 99% black 
from the UV to near-IR. Military black is 99.9% black and military ultrablack
is 99.99% black.

I should note that (I think I mentioned earlier) a MilBlack AdvancedMasking
ship actually can do a good job of hiding from the sort of sensor array a
backwater world or small warship would have, at least out at a few million
km...

>What you could do is soak up all the heat, then dump it into the liquid hydrogen
>just before injecting it into the HEPlaR thrusters.
This is hard to make work thermodynamically, because so little hydrogen
gets used up in HEPlaR that you have to heat it to millions of kelvin; that
means more heat gets used up in refrigeration, you have to shuffle
million-kelvin plasma around the ship and/or have a refrigerator that works 
at these temperatures, and you lose efficiency from your main fusion power
plant since the temperature gap between its hot end and cold sink is small.
(I've never actually done the numbers, though, and would be interested to
see what temperature a ton of hydrogen has to reach to contain a megawatt-
hour of energy.)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 09:20:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: radiators and sensor spoofs

Kurt Feltenberger writes:
> 
> I do not know wheather this is a doable scenario, but in Brin's _Sundiver_,
> he had the excess heat used to power a laser that dispensed the energy.  Is
> this tecno fantasy, or is it possible?

Generally speaking, this violates the second law of thermodynamics.  Up to a
certain point you can pump away power by spending power, though (basically, if
the outside temperature is (Y) and you want an internal temperature of (X), and
(Y) is greater than (X), you need (Y/X)-1 MW of power to dump 1 MW worth of
heat.  Of course, if your power plant generates heat you have a problem..).

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 09:28:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Weapon Question

Kurt Feltenberger writes:
> If a PA or MG is fired at a target in an atmosphere;
> 
> A:  What kind of visual signature will they make both at impact/detonation
> and during projection from the weapon?
Well, MG physics are broken (half-life doesn't work that way) but the signature
would be the same as it is in space, which is to say nonexistent.
A PAW would look like a lightning bolt -- it would start out (mostly) straight,
but if the discharge lasted any significant amount of time it would tend to
kink like a lightning bolt.
> 
> B:  What kind of radiaion is produced on the target and how long does it
> last? 

Relativistic mesons have enough kinetic energy that when they decay secondary
particles may have enough energy to blow apart nuclei.  Figure induced
radiation comparable to a conventional nuclear weapon of comparable yield.
A PAW at an energy level appropriate for use in an atmosphere (relatively high
beam current) probably doesn't have enough per-particle energy to create _any_
secondary radiation, and primary radiation effects are mostly overwhelmed by
direct damage effects.  As such, the radiation effects can be pretty much
ignored.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:05:02 -0600
From: "Eric T. Holmes" <holmberg@thuntek.net>
Subject: Personal Computers and Super Computers [LONG]

All:

Thought you would like to read these articles from LANL's Newsletter and
the Albuquerque Journal.  It could give you some ideas on what to do about
computer technology.

Significance:  Reduced costs, use of PCs and freeware, ability to do
simulations and simultaneous calculations.

Unknown:  size, volume, weight  Checking with Mike Warren as you read this.

- ---

Los Alamos mail-order supercomputer among world's fastest

LOS ALAMOS, N.M., June 18, 1998 - A supercomputer built from ordinary
personal computer components is among the 500 fastest computers in the
world, an international survey reported today.

The Avalon computer cost just $150,000 to build, and can compute more than
20 billion mathematical operations in a second, said Michael Warren of Los
Alamos National Laboratory's Theoretical Astrophysics Group.

Avalon made the 315th spot on the 11th TOP500 list released at the
Supercomputer '98 conference in Mannheim, Germany. The list is the
best-known ranking of supercomputer performance.

"It's now possible for a small group of motivated people to design and
build their own parallel supercomputer using off-the-shelf computer parts
and easily available software," Warren said. "Only a handful of companies
in the world produce a computer this fast, and the least expensive costs
well over a million dollars."

Avalon is built out of 68 high-end personal computers that use the Digital
Equipment Corporation Alpha microprocessor, connected by 3Com network
switches similar to those found in a university department or small
business. Each processor in the Los Alamos supercomputer is an ordinary PC,
using the same type of memory and disk drives found in a computer on an
office desktop.

"Each of these processors theoretically is capable of performing over one
billion operations a second, and we bought them at consumer prices," said
Warren.

But hardware is only half of the equation. Software is the hardest part of
getting many processors to work together on the same problem. The Los
Alamos team used an open source Linux operating system and other software
available on the Internet.

"The key to the success of these machines lies in their software, and the
most important part of that software is the Linux operating system," Warren
explained. "Linux can be obtained at no cost through the Internet, but that
is minor compared to its other advantages. In my experience, the
reliability and performance of Linux has no peer.

"We have stressed Linux well beyond where one would expect it to fail, and
it has performed admirably. Because it was developed as open source
software, we can go to the source code and fix many problems immediately,"
Warren continued. "If we can't fix it ourselves, we can tap the huge pool
of Linux expertise on the Internet."

While some question the reliability, complexity and difficulty of
installing software on a "do-it-yourself" supercomputer, Warren and his
team had no problems.

"We got most of the parts for Avalon on Friday, April 10. Three days later,
the machine was computing at over 10 billion operations per second." he said.

By Wednesday, which was the deadline for TOP500 list entries, Avalon had
achieved 19.2 billion floating point operations per second. The computer
hasn't suffered a single hardware failure or operating system crash on any
of the 68 processors during the last six weeks.

Working with Warren to build Avalon were David Neal, systems administrator
for Los Alamos' Center for Nonlinear Studies, and David Moulton and Aric
Hagberg, both from the Mathematical Modeling and Analysis Group.

In its short life, Avalon already has performed some significant scientific
computations.

One of the first simulations followed the evolution of a shock wave through
60 million atoms. The simulation ran for more than 300 hours on Avalon,
calculating about 10 billion floating point operations per second.

Physicist Peter Lomdahl, who won the Gordon Bell prize for significant
achievement in parallel processing using the Connection Machine 5
supercomputer at Los Alamos said the Avalon system was extremely easy to use.

"We ported our molecular dynamics code over in about a day and have been
able to perform state-of-the-art simulations of shock-waves in metals that
ordinarily would have required the Lab's large-scale shared-memory parallel
systems" Lomdahl said. "Not only does the Avalon system run slightly faster
than a similarly sized commercial system, it does it at a tenth of the
cost, and is much easier to use."  Warren will use the machine in his
computational astrophysics research, performing simulations of galaxies. 

"I am interested in simulating the evolution of the universe from its very
early stages up to the present day," Warren said. "We can test different
ideas about the way the universe is put together by comparing the galaxies
simulated inside the computer with real observations made by the latest
generation of telescopes. Avalon puts the computational power we need to do
those simulations inside our own building, at a price we can afford."

In its "spare time," Avalon helped crack the Certicom Elliptic Curve
Cryptosystem challenge, winning a $4,000 prize that was donated to the Free
Software Foundation. The Foundation led the development of many of the
software tools Avalon uses.

The code-breaking calculations ran at the same time as other large
simulations, but only made progress when the computer didn't have anything
else to do.

Initial funds to buy and build Avalon came from the Center for Nonlinear
Studies. Other funding came from the Laboratory Directed Research and
Development program and the Theoretical Division. Shi-yi Chen, deputy
leader of the Center for Nonlinear Studies, said "Avalon will be used for
fundamental researches in nonlinear sciences for a variety of areas,
including applied mathematics, material sciences, complex systems and
climate modeling."

Warren has used parallel computers throughout his career, including several
which have held records as world's fastest at the time. In 1996, he built
his first off-the shelf computer, Loki, which last year won the Gordon Bell
prize in the "price to performance" category.

"Loki proved itself as the most cost-effective way to perform large-scale
scientific simulations last year, and now Avalon provides ten times that
performance for only three times the price," Warren said.

Computers using off-the-shelf technology like Loki and Avalon are called
"Beowulf" computers, after the project begun by Thomas Sterling at the NASA
Goddard Space Flight Center. 

"Avalon is a dramatic demonstration of the long-term potential of the
Beowulf model for scalable, high-end computing to perform real-world
applications in science and engineering at unprecedented price-to-
performance ratios," Sterling said. "Since 1994 when the earliest Beowulf
systems were developed at

NASA, a rapidly growing community world-wide has emerged to apply the
Beowulf approach to a broad range of important problems.

"Avalon represents a new generation of Beowulf systems -- breaking new
ground in performance and extending their utility to new and important
areas," Sterling said.

Warren thinks that Avalon's success is only the beginning.

"In the future, I imagine hundreds or thousands of machines of this type,
working on important science, engineering and business problems," he said.
"You will probably never hear about those computers, because they are
simply a tool; the problems that they solve and the progress they enable is
the important news."

More information about Avalon is available at the following URL on the
World Wide Web: 

http://cnls.lanl.gov/avalon

- ---

Patched PCs Zip Up Speed Prize
LANL's Homemade Computer in Top 500 
By John Fleck, Journal Staff Writer
                         
Bigger is not necessarily better. 

A group of Los Alamos National scientists who built their ownsupercomputer
by wiring together 70 desktop computers broke into the big time Thursday
when their machine was named one of the 500 fastest in the world.  The
tinkering physicists did it for just $150,000 of lab money -- a fraction of
the cost of the multimillion-dollar commercial machines that dominate the
field. 

Their machine, called Avalon, showed up as the 315th-fastest supercomputer
in the world in the latest Top 500 list released Thursday at a scientific
meeting in Germany.  The scientists weren't trying to win honors, said
Michael Warren, the machine's designer.  He wanted to simulate the
evolution of the universe, then compare the results to telescope
observations. But he didn't have the budget to buy a big computer to do the
work.  "We just needed a tool to get our research done," he said Thursday. 

"Muscling into the Top 500 with the commercial big boys of supercomputing
is a breakthrough for home-built machines," said Thomas Sterling, a
California Institute of Technology scientist who is a pioneer in the field.
 "These are now among the very high end of systems," Sterling said. 
 
The closely watched Top 500 list, produced every six months by computer
scientists in Tennessee and Germany, is to high-performance computing what
the Billboard 200 is to the music industry.
 
For the third time in a row, another New Mexico machine tops the list, a
$46 million supercomputer built by Sandia National Laboratories and Intel.
An IBM computer at the University of New Mexico's Maui High Performance
Computing Center also made the list at No. 50, and a collection of
identical new Cray Research machines at Los Alamos occupied spots 97
through 110.                          

Warren and his colleagues started thinking about the design for their
homemade machine in February, sent out a request for bidders to supply the
hardware in March, and had the machine built and running by April. Once the
hardware arrived, it took them only a weekend to put it together, Warren
said. 

"The resulting machine has been a remarkable performer," said Peter
Lomdahl, a Los Alamos scientist who's used it to simulate the interactions
of millions of individual atoms.  "We're doing simulations here we couldn't
do on anything else," Lomdahl said.  Lomdahl stated that for some types of
work, Avalon is more reliable than its larger, faster Los Alamos cousin,
the $110 million collection of supercomputers built by famed manufacturer
Cray Research for the nuclear weapons laboratory. 

Warren's group eschewed the big-name supercomputer-makers in favor of a
design based on stacks of ordinary desktop computers.  The idea is that if
you can divide a problem up into pieces and let a bunch of small computers
work together, they can perform as well as a larger, faster machine.  It's
an idea that has been used for a long time in supercomputer manufacture,
but Warren and a group of other researchers around the country are pushing
the idea to the limit by doing it with stacks of cheap desktop machines. 

Warren's machine uses 70 computers built around a computer chip made by
Digital Equipment Corp. for high-end desktop computers, wired together with
the same type of network hardware used in a typical small business.
Instead of using expensive software to run it like that made by Microsoft,
the scientists use a system called Linux, which has been developed by a
group of volunteer programmers around the world and is distributed free of
cost. Linux is better than commercial software, Lomdahl explained, because
the scientists can get under its hood and tinker with its operations to
fine-tune it to meet their needs, something you generally can't do with
commercial products.  Linux also performs better, he said.  Avalon is based
on a concept developed by Sterling four yearsago at the National
Aeronautics and Space Administration's Goddard Space Flight Center in
Maryland. 

Sterling said he and his colleagues realized the only way they could afford
the computing horsepower they needed was to build it themselves.  But while
they are doing it on a "back-of-the-garage, hobbyist budget," Sterling
said, the new type of machines are proving themselves among scientists who
need speed for their work.  Sterling runs a similar machine at Caltech,
Goddard continues to
use them, and a team at Sandia National Laboratories is developing a new
system based on the same concept. Sterling cautioned that there are some
scientific problems better suited to the traditional big commercial
machines.  Avalon-style machines are only good for problems that are easy
to divide up into little pieces so each individual computer in the stack
doesn't have to spend too much time sharing data with its neighbors.
"There are times when there is not only no advantage, but it's the wrong
thing to do," he explained.  But for the kind of scientific problems suited
to computer clusters like Avalon, he said, you can't beat the price.
"You're going to get 10 times the amount of science out of it for the same
bucks," he said. 

- ---

See Also:

Avalon
http://cnls.lanl.gov/avalon/

Beowulf Project at CESDIS
http://cesdis.gsfc.nasa.gov/beowulf/

Sandia National Laboratory's CPlant
http://www.cs.sandia.gov/~dsgreen/cplant/main.html

the Top500 List
http://www.top500.org/top500.list.html

The Loki Papers
http://loki-www.lanl.gov/papers/

Enjoy!

Eric



Lead  --  Serve  --  Educate  

Eric T. Holmes, Safety Engineer

For Official Use:
Science Applications Int. Corp
PO Box 50      Mail Stop: G750
Los Alamos, NM 87544-0050  USA
Telephone:  505-665-4894
Facsimile:  505-665-1887
VoicePage:  505-665-0062  x104-1628
Hours:      7am - 4pm Mountain
E-Mail:     holmes_eric_t@lanl.gov


Personal Snail Mail:
2113 Virgin Wood Road Northeast
Rio Rancho, NM 87124-6312   USA
Telephone:  505-896-8061
Facsimile:  505-896-4484
Hours:      6pm - 9pm Mountain 
E-Mail:     holmberg@thuntek.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 02:20:21 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Mag/Survey 

> My fault, I meant to expand it to cover all systems. The initial survey was
> just to test a more limited forum, but snce the response is somewhat better
> than expected, I expanded the survey.
> 
> 	BTW, a conversion guide would be arranged, somehow.

Cool!!!

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #601
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Tuesday, June 23 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 602



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Nobles of the Spinward Marches
Re : Software
Re: Armed merchants
Re: Re : Software
Re: Vargr Tech Levels and world 0439
Tech: Quantum computers, LEPs, etc.
Re: Personal Computers and Super Computers [LONG]
Re: Vargr Tech Levels and world 0439 
Re: Vargr Tech Levels and world 0439
Re: Personal Computers and Super Computers [LONG]
Imperium
Re: Armed merchants
Re: Vargr Tech Levels and world 0439 
Jobs for Traveller Players
Pirates and Merchants
Re: Vargr Tech Levels and world 0439 
RE: Imperium
Re: Jobs for Traveller Players
Re: Jobs for Traveller Players 
Fwd: Survey Responses
Helping out pirates

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:43:11 -0500
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Nobles of the Spinward Marches

Hans Rancke-Madsen writes:

>                               I made Jewell a county not so much because
> of the population as because there are only enough planets for four nobles.

Oddly enough, I've seen a reference somewhere (Spinward Marches Campaign?)
that Jewell subsector *is* administered from Regina.  In any case, this 
makes sense.

>                                                          The reason why I
> don't think Five Sisters has a duke is that it is under naval administration.

Alternatively, "Duke of Five Sisters" or something similar could be a purely
administrative title given to whoever is the commodore of the Five Sisters
flotilla, as part of the job.  _Imperial Encyclopedia_ suggests that there
are a number of naval commands and high civil service positions that have
titles that go with the job.  (Admittedly, it still might not rate a whole
dukedom.)

  -- Steve Bonneville

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 19:44:19 +0100
From: Rob Day <rob@glisten.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re : Software

Hi all,

Kurt Feltenberger wrote (a few digests ago)
>I remember seeing a program someone wrote some years back that would
>generate words based on the charts given in the various supplements.  Is
>this still out there somewhere and if so, could someone please point me in
>the right direction to find it.  I am adding some different races into a
>current campaign and it would be helpful to have an automatic way of
>generating words as needed.

Well, there are always my web based generators. There are two at version
1 for Vargr and Zhodani at:

http://www.glisten.demon.co.uk/zhodanilanggen.htm
http://www.glisten.demon.co.uk/vargrlanggen.htm 

And a Vilani one which is at version 3 and can be found at :

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/2555/vilanigen.htm

<shameless plug>
If you're really interested in the language development idea, then come
over and join us on the TravLang list, if you haven't already. :)
</shameless plug>

I seem to remember a while ago that somebody had created a PC program
written in Delphi which could generate words, I know it's out there
somewhere (or was, anyway), but I can't remember the URL offhand.
I created a VB (VB4 I think) one a while ago, but with the run-time
DLL's it's a bit on the large side, so I never put it up on the web. Let
me know if you get desperate and want it, and I'll look it out.

Regards,

Rob.
- -- 
Rob Day
rob@glisten.demon.co.uk

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:52:52 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Armed merchants

Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:51:28 +0200 (METDST), Hans Rancke-Madsen
<rancke@diku.dk>
> Also, he has a computer no better than his prey, his maneuver drive is 1G,
> his armament is the same as his potential prey's, and he leaves a broad
> paper trail wherever he goes.

Well, unarmed merchants do exist in the background (they
may even be more common).  How broad the paper trail
is in dispute is has been beat to death already.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:38:34 -0500
From: Chris Olson <Chris_Olson@itd.sterling.com>
Subject: Re: Re : Software

Rob Day wrote:

> Hi all,
>

Greetings

> I seem to remember a while ago that somebody had created a PC program
> written in Delphi which could generate words, I know it's out there
> somewhere (or was, anyway), but I can't remember the URL offhand.
> I created a VB (VB4 I think) one a while ago, but with the run-time
> DLL's it's a bit on the large side, so I never put it up on the web. Let
> me know if you get desperate and want it, and I'll look it out.

That would be me :-)

URL is:  'http://www.novia.net/~pern/chris/Language.zip'

>
>
> Regards,
>
> Rob.
> --
> Rob Day
> rob@glisten.demon.co.uk

Thanx for the plug,

Chris Olson
Programmer, nut

------------------------------

Date: 22 Jun 1998 11:05 EDT
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Re: Vargr Tech Levels and world 0439

> > At 02:03 AM 6/20/98 -0800, you wrote:
> >
> > >0439   A000000-G       Lo nIn As       220 Va K8 V M7 D
> >
> > An entire system with TWO Vargr at TL16?!  

This "Mad Scientist" mode... perhaps these types of Vargr
are like the Brown Moties from _The Mote in God's Eye_:
genius technical and mechanical toolsmiths.

Use their intelligence rating as the limit on TL that they
can tinker at.

And be sure to give them social quirks and rotten charisma,
or else they WILL take over the galaxy.

Hey, this could make some corsairs very successful raiders,
if this mad scientist could sell them TL 16 military sensor 
technology...

Rob

------------------------------

Date: 22 Jun 1998 14:01 EDT
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Tech: Quantum computers, LEPs, etc.

Something for higher TLs

Quantum Computers

These babies are able to crack the best TL8 security in
1/100th the time... call them TL10 at least.  They are fast,
and break the silicon atomic-level restriction.

LEPs

Light-emitting polymers are the rage in TL8+? display technology,
clothing, and more.  LEP displays are flat, viewable at any
angle (unlike LCD), run on low voltage (5V), have crisper
resolution (you can stack the RGB pixels), and a great
alternative to OLEDs (Organic LEDs, which are lower power and
lower mass but might be more fragile).

LEP-embedded clothing can now change colors or provide stunning
graphics... with a few air motion sensors and some software,
color waves can flow liquidly across an outfit as relative
airspeed increases... or an image of a windmill on the front
of one's shirt can spin its blades at a variable speed 
depending on the speed of the air hitting its sensor...

Replacement Assault Rifle

For TL8+? the assault rifle of choice, which replaces
the M16, is lighter, computer controlled, and features 20-
or 30-clip magazines of (NATO) ammo, plus a nice 6-shot HEAP
magazine with computer-time-set fuses... the computer is in
the scope, and there are buttons around the trigger for
time adjustments, as well as dials on the scope for other
measurement adjustments.  Moreover, the two guns can separate,
with an optional trigger for the HEAP rounds.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 17:16:27 -0400
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Personal Computers and Super Computers [LONG]

Interesting but certainly not worthy of a Highest Priority status,
surely.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 17:21:56 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Vargr Tech Levels and world 0439 

> > > At 02:03 AM 6/20/98 -0800, you wrote:
> > >
> > > >0439   A000000-G       Lo nIn As       220 Va K8 V M7 D
> > >
> > > An entire system with TWO Vargr at TL16?!  
> 
> This "Mad Scientist" mode... perhaps these types of Vargr
> are like the Brown Moties from _The Mote in God's Eye_:
> genius technical and mechanical toolsmiths.
> 
> Use their intelligence rating as the limit on TL that they
> can tinker at.
> 
> And be sure to give them social quirks and rotten charisma,
> or else they WILL take over the galaxy.
> 
> Hey, this could make some corsairs very successful raiders,
> if this mad scientist could sell them TL 16 military sensor 
> technology...

"Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?"

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:52:26 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Vargr Tech Levels and world 0439

Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:

> > Hey, this could make some corsairs very successful raiders,
> > if this mad scientist could sell them TL 16 military sensor
> > technology...
> 
> "Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?"

"I think so Brain. But how are we going to fit tiny beanie hats on all
the Chirpers?"

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:59:06 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Personal Computers and Super Computers [LONG]

Steve Daniels wrote:
> 
> Interesting but certainly not worthy of a Highest Priority status,
> surely.

At least IRL...you want to know why? Because we restrict the export of
supercomputers to _lots_ of places for a myriad of reasons.

Wanna break encryption schemes, design nukes, ICBM's, etc? Any problem
that just needs lots of cycles tossed at it is available, essentially
OTC...with software that's freely available anywhere in the world.

Remember the brouhaha that ensued when it was revealed that Toshiba had
sold supercomputers to the Soviets, enabling them to make quieter props
for their submarines? (part of it was also the CNC machines to do the
milling, too, but that's secondary)

I wanna see 'em _try_ to do export restrictions on PC's.

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 23:16:47 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Imperium

In mail you wrote:

>If anyone is interested, MPGN.COM will let you play an online version of
>GDW's Imperium for free. Now if I could just find an opponent or three...
>email me if interested, I'd love to try this game online.

Tell me more - I've only just got the game and have not had a chance to try
it yet.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 18:31:53 EDT
From: JLAROSEE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Armed merchants

Hi-
   What's to prevent all these pirates we hear about originating outside the
Imperium from pocket empires? Grabbing starships in state sponsored piracy
(ie:as in many of the spanish main pirates) may be a quick way to upgrade your
tech level as well as supplement a local trading fleet not planning on re-
entering the Imperium.
    Jay

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 18:38:07 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Vargr Tech Levels and world 0439 

> Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:
> 
> > > Hey, this could make some corsairs very successful raiders,
> > > if this mad scientist could sell them TL 16 military sensor
> > > technology...
> > 
> > "Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?"
> 
> "I think so Brain. But how are we going to fit tiny beanie hats on all
> the Chirpers?"

"Pinky, I think I'm going to have to hurt you now..."

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:43:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
Subject: Jobs for Traveller Players

Hi Everyone,

This isn't Traveller related, it's actually (choke) Real Life related.
  
	I've recently come into a position as a recruiter for a technical
consulting firm in Seattle. I know a lot of you are programmers, so I
thought I'd extend an offer to the list - if you're a programmer, project
manager, DBA, network admin, etc. and you're interested in consulting work
or in finding yourself a better job, email me your resume and if you've
got the minimum requirements (basically 1 year work experience) I'll get
you in the door with my firm. I can't promise anything because I don't
make the hiring decisions, but I do screen resumes, so if I pass you into
the pool,  someone will review you.
	I'd rather the position go to a Traveller player  ;)

send it to my work email: bboren@wdcorp.com

Take Care,
Ben

- --
Brannon "Ben" Boren
http://www.mog.net/brannonb/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:57:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Pirates and Merchants

The arguments about the economics of piracy remind me somewhat of the
discussion about constructing a profitable merchant ship; it's within the realm
of possibility that these problems are related.  Key assumptions:

1)  Given the nature of ship design, we can assume that most cargo is
transported by several-thousand displacement ton heavy freighters, with small
crews, no streamlining, and probably J-1 or J-2.  Such ships are simply cheaper
(per ton of cargo space) than smaller ships.  We can assume that where
practical, trade between planets will be handled by such ships.
2)  Use of such ships is practical if (a) the port is capable of handling such
ships (via shuttles) and (b) total volume of transported materials is
sufficient to require such ships.  Heavy ships like that won't visit a planet
more often than they can reasonably fill their holds; if this results in less
than once a month there is a market for the small trader (who may be more
expensive, but gets the material there _now_ rather than later).  Note that it
doesn't take all that much trade for it to be efficient to obtain sufficient
shuttlecraft, so (a) and (b) are much the same issue.  It probably takes around
10,000 dT/year to make small traders obsolete.

So, the worlds which are serviced by free/far/subsidised traders are mostly
worlds with quite low trade -- probably fewer than 10 ships per month, with 3-5
ships in port at one time (say, 1000 dT average).  With a typical ratio of
military ships to merchant ships, this means your system defense needs are
probably handled by a couple of fighters, your system defense budget is
probably insufficient to support a SDB.  In addition, a patrol ship probably
comes through every 1-2 months.

Hm...this _isn't_ too bad of a place to commit piracy.  Of course, it's
probably also either pretty low tech or population code 5-....

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 19:03:36 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Vargr Tech Levels and world 0439 

> From: Keven R. Pittsinger <jamstar@glasscity.net>
> > > > Hey, this could make some corsairs very successful raiders,
> > > > if this mad scientist could sell them TL 16 military sensor
> > > > technology...
> > > "Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?"

Concidering they are Vargr, should that not be Puppy?  As in Puppy & the
Brain?

> > "I think so Brain. But how are we going to fit tiny beanie hats on all
> > the Chirpers?"

LOL.

> "Pinky, I think I'm going to have to hurt you now..."

LOL

> Keven

They're Puppy & the Brain
They're Puppy & the Brain
Their twilight campaign is easy to explain.
To prove their Vargr worth
They'll overthrow the Imps
They're Puppy & the Brain, Brain, Brain
Narf.

Legate, Militant Jewish Terrorist
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"The system does not matter, its ROLE-Playing that matters." - Me to
Acid_Blue, Chuckles, & Rob the Lumberjackman.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 22:24:11 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: RE: Imperium

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD9E2C.7C6E6080
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Do you mean you just got the boardgame? I've had it and loved it - one of
my all-time favorites. www.mpgn.com has a gaming center, go check it
out if you haven't. The only game in their "Space" category is Imperium, 
but they seem to have done it right.

Take a look, download the software, let me know - I can usually make
myself available after 9PM Eastern most evenings, email me.

Walt
smithw@hartwick.edu

- -----Original Message-----
From:	SD Mooney [SMTP:dom@cybergoths.u-net.com]
Sent:	Monday, June 22, 1998 6:17 PM
To:	traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject:	Imperium

In mail you wrote:

>If anyone is interested, MPGN.COM will let you play an online version of
>GDW's Imperium for free. Now if I could just find an opponent or three...
>email me if interested, I'd love to try this game online.

Tell me more - I've only just got the game and have not had a chance to try
it yet.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --


- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD9E2C.7C6E6080
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- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD9E2C.7C6E6080--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 00:21:21 -0400
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Jobs for Traveller Players

Brannon Boren wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
>
> This isn't Traveller related, it's actually (choke) Real Life related.
>
>         I've recently come into a position as a recruiter for a technical
> consulting firm in Seattle. I know a lot of you are programmers, so I
> thought I'd extend an offer to the list - if you're a programmer, project
> manager, DBA, network admin, etc. and you're interested in consulting work
> or in finding yourself a better job, email me your resume and if you've
> got the minimum requirements (basically 1 year work experience) I'll get
> you in the door with my firm.

Need any lawyers?

;-)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 02:00:10 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Jobs for Traveller Players 

> >         I've recently come into a position as a recruiter for a technical
> > consulting firm in Seattle. 
>
> Need any lawyers?

Don't they shoot the l*wy*rs first??

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 02:05:48 EDT
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: Survey Responses

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From: Kagekiha@aol.com
Return-path: <Kagekiha@aol.com>
To: tne-rces@tower.ml.org
Cc: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Survey Responses
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 02:04:30 EDT
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	First off I'd like to thank all the people that took the time to answer the
survey question. If you haven't answered you still can.

	Secondly I can't really state what's going on entirely yet as everything is
still undergoing negotiation. I'm just trying to provide some useful input to
the parties involved. Maybe in another month or two a more formal announcement
might be made.

	Thirdly, the idea of an electronically based magazine was brought up as an
experimental idea, or as an add-on to the paper-based product. Some people
might even remember that Roger Sanger and I had tried to do so before, but
couldn't get permission too.

	However times have changed since than. The advent of the WWW has provided a
somewhat more universal format to present such material (as has Adobe PDF).
More people are online than they have been before. Distribution of RPG
material by other means has become somewhat more acceptable and even desired.
Problems with Distributors makes it harder for RPG companies to stay in
business, since some don't believe in making timely payments (or any
payments).

	I still believe a paper product is still required to be out there on the
market, how to do that might involve doing distribution in new ways. However
it would also be possible to expand upon the paper based product by providing
additional material in other formats (web and disk).

	How much it would cost to do this is still up in the air. Understandably the
more subscriptions, the cheaper it can be done and more can be done. For
instance, there  was at least one request to see more of the Keith Brothers
material. I have talked to them about this some months ago now, and while they
are not up to speed on the latest edition of the rules, there would be the
possibility of having them do some new stuff, though posibly for the old
rules, if the price was right (William was definitely willing to do some
Traveller artwork again, Keith was a little iffier), what that price might be
would understandably be needed to be discussed).

	The general response of the survey leaned towards a web-based subscription,
followed closely by a CD-ROM. A good compromise on costs here for everybody
seems to be the web-based subscription with a yearly CD-ROM release.

	The cost of doing CD-ROMS is still probably still to high to do on a
quarterly basis unless we really have a large number of subscribers. The costs
to do a run of 100 runs between $450-800, and drops to more acceptable levels
at about a run 500 and to about the costs of a paper based sub at about a run
of 1000). On top of those costs you need to add royalties, some payment for
time invested, maybe the authors would like payment and all that other Real
World Stuff <grin>.

	The format would be something like JTAS, but expanded in new ways that can't
be done on paper because of costs. Another advantage is that it would be
easier to support all melieus and rules sets.



Bryan
HIWG CS

- --part0_898581951_boundary--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 00:46:33
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Helping out pirates

This is some suggestions from the 'Realo' faction of the anti-piracy forces
...

The first method is to assume an acute lack of bureaucracy in space - no
cross-checked cargo manifests, no Imperial Passports, no message/response
transponders linked to port of origin ... we could go on and on. Given the
Vilani influence on the Third Imperium, I think you would have to be very
frontier to have a lack of paperwork on multi-million credit starships.
Paperwork is also relativly cheap - hiring three hundred clerks at KCr 20
each per annum costs about, what, MCr 6 a year, or the maintainence cost of
a couple of fighters.

The second method is to cut the price of starships. The best way to do this
is to assume a combination of 20% volume discounts for standard designs,
with a 10% discount per TL built at below current state of the art, plus
10% discount per 10 years. Having a whole heap of obsolete rust buckets out
in the spaceways will cut the 'entry price' of pirates down to mere
megacredits. Dropping the $^%^#@ 10 m3 minimum size of thruster plates can
also make 'speedboats in space' viable, allowing cheap small craft. Oh
yeah, it also allows space missiles at TL11 rather than TL13 (if anyone
builds a decent missile without using t-playtes or Heplar, I have the
civilian det-laser warhead ... guaranteed immune to nuclear damper fields).

The third method is to increase the value of cargos. If cargos cost not the
KCr 10 per displacement ton or so but MCr 1 per displacement ton (not
unreasonable actually - check FFS2 for the prices of fission power plants,
sensor arrays and meson screens for example), then risking a beaten-up MCr
40 starship to capture a Fat Trader gets to be more worthwhile. You can
mesh this with the vanilla trade system by arguing that the 'purchase
price' is just your equity in it (with higher values you need to damp down
the price differential per displacement ton, or trade gets too profitable).

The fourth method is to assume institutional corruption - in New South
Wales in Australia, the mostly-corrupt police Armed Holdup Squad allegedly
issued for several years what were in effect licences to do armed robberies
(the so-called 'green light'). Having such a 'green light' from some of the
local authorities would make life a lot easier for our prospective pirate.
It may be conditional on limiting attacks to certain systems (perhaps those
with Ine Givar-supplied deniability), or certain areas ("The Imperium
controls the space between the stars. The outsystem is a local
responsibility").

The fifth method is cutting sensor ranges. I personally dont like this one
- - even the traditional one lightsecond for civilians, three l/s for
military still puts detection range on or about the 100 diameter limit, and
thats without stationing a patrol ship at the 100 diameter limit.

The sixth method is by making point of entry in a new system random. This
IMO doesnt help pirates that much, especially not when combined with #5
above - you would have to be damn lucky to have a trader drop into your
lap, and if it gets enough time to accelerate it may not be able to slow
down even if it wants to.

The seventh method is by instituting risk premiums for travel to
pirate-affected systems. No trader in their right mind would go into a
system where there is a 2% chance of pirate attack - you are running a 2%
chance of losing a 50 megacredit ship, or losing MCr 1 on average (assuming
you value your life at nothing). Assuming 100 tons of cargo, you would have
to be paid KCr 10 per ton just to cover the risk premium. On the other
hand, you can build a pretty decent armed freighter (or blockade runner,
for that matter) if you assume you are being paid around KCr 5 per
displacement ton for freight (note to self ... do economic profile on the
Famile Spofulam Yards Drug Drug Runner Runner - a jump 2, 9 gee 'fast
extraction ship'. I wonder what drug drug costs to produce, anyway). Such
high-gee armed freighters would provide 'fish' for a pirate to swim in.

The eight method is to assume pirates dont need annual maintainence. I
really, really dont like this, unless it is going to be optional for
everybody. I suppose if you cut the additional misjump chance from +1 per
month missed to +1 per year missed it should even out for everybody.

The ninth method (and this is a real one-off) is to assume some pirate has
access to some sort of psionic power/magic widget/whatever that allows them
to induce misjumps in their ship at random, and thus outrun the Imperial
reaction. This could do real damage to canon if the Imperium duplicated it
(increases the speed of the x-boat net incredibly - who cares where you end
up, if you have a spare jump-3 worth of fuel and are within an empire of
11000 stars).

I'll add more if I think of them.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #602
**********************************

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Traveller-digest       Tuesday, June 23 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 603



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Personal Computers and Super Computers
Survey Responses and more Keith...
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #602
Re: Personal Computers and Super Computers
Re: Re : Software
Vargr Tinkers
Hello, and a question
Pointless laws (was: Personal Computers and Super Computers)
Re: Armed merchants
Re: Armed merchants
Re: Pirates and merchants
Re: Hello, and a question
Re: Survey Responses and more Keith...
Re: Jobs for Traveller Players
Re: Hello, and a question
Re: Hello, and a question
Coreward Spinward Marches (Was: EAST EUROPE)
Re: Hello, and a question

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 98 01:22:08 -0500
From: eris@pen.net
Subject: Re: Personal Computers and Super Computers

On 06/22/98 at 02:59 PM,  Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
said:

>I wanna see 'em _try_ to do export restrictions on PC's.

You mean the government has lifted export restrictions on PC's?  

Several years ago I worked for Radio Shack, and we weren't allowed to
sell Model 16's to a customer in Costa Rica. Now, if you remember the
Model 16 you know it wasn't a super computer much less a
super-computer. ;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 00:35:00 -0700
From: Sanders <timmon@primenet.com>
Subject: Survey Responses and more Keith...

Bryan wrote thusly:
>For instance, there  was at least one request to see more of the 
>Keith Brothers material. I have talked to them about this some months >ago
now, and while they are not up to speed on the latest edition of >the
rules, there would be the possibility of having them do some new >stuff,
though posibly for the old rules, if the price was right >(William was
definitely willing to do some Traveller artwork again, >Keith was a little
iffier), what that price might be would >understandably be needed to be
discussed).

I've just taken "Letter of Marque" to the printer...should have it back and
in the mail in one week. While it's been fun doing the limited TML paper
edition, I think a cd-rom would certainly be one valid way to go for any
future editions of LOM. 

With that in mind, I'd like to announce that I've just concluded a deal
with Andrew Keith to purchase the following previously unpublished
manuscripts - and I am certainly open to the cd route of release if Marc is
agreeable. My only desire is that they be released in their 'original'
Classic Traveller form (i.e. as written). If someone wanted to produce a
companion article for the cd detailing the ways and means of converting
them to other versions of Traveller, that would be fine course.

The manuscripts are:

"Rogues in Space I: Letter of Marque" 
     We all know about this one...

"Rogues in Space II: 'Scams & Cons" (working title only)
       Interstellar Mafia anyone? Another in the boxed module series.

"Starport - Planetfall" 
       The *really* Complete Starport upon which the _Far & Away_ 
       articles borrowed a miniscule portion of material from. 
	Actually - "Startown" was supposed to have been the 
	companion-scenario followup book for this product. 

"Artic Environment" 
       Another in the hostile environment series - and Andrew has
expressed an interest in writing a companion-scenario book for        	this
as well.

And...saving the best for last...(believe me - I was up most of last night
reading it!)

"Faldor - World of Adventure"
	This was to have been another in the boxed module series. Like 	"Tarsus"
it is a fully detailed world - in this case, a formerly     	'lost' Darrian
colony which regressed to a lower tech level, and 	is presently rife with
Darrian, Sword World, Zhodani, and of 	course Imperial agents all striving
to sway the locals towards 	their own particular interests. Needless to
say....the 	'primitives' prove more than a match for them all. ;)

L8r,
Paul Sanders
timmon@primenet.com

P.S. If he's listening, I'd like to urge Roger Sanger to consider this
route for the release of the 'lost' DGP gem - "The Black Duke". 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 17:35:42
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #602

>From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
>Subject: Re: Armed merchants
>
>Well, unarmed merchants do exist in the background (they
>may even be more common).  How broad the paper trail
>is in dispute is has been beat to death already.

In the interest of historical accuracy, it wasnt beaten to death. The
pro-piracy camp essentially said 'Merchant ships wont create a paper trail'
and left it at that (in case anyone is interested, I work in fraud
prevention for a big government department. My job is identifying anomolous
paper trails, and most of my data is months out of date. I dream about
having free access to credit reference, Stock Exchange and bank data).

>From: JLAROSEE@aol.com
>Subject: Re: Armed merchants
>
>Hi-
>   What's to prevent all these pirates we hear about originating outside the
>Imperium from pocket empires? Grabbing starships in state sponsored piracy
>(ie:as in many of the spanish main pirates) may be a quick way to upgrade
your
>tech level as well as supplement a local trading fleet not planning on re-
>entering the Imperium.
>    Jay

Essentially, the Imperial Navy, or elements thereof, drops over and beats
the crap out of the pocket empire supporting piracy.

The US Marines got the seocnd half of 'From the Halls of Montezuma to the
shores of Tripoli' from such an exercise.

If the IN is unwilling to do so, then personally I would hire either
Instellarms, an Aslan Ihatei group or a mob of Vargr to beat the crap out
of the Pocket Empire instead. Or base your own privateers in the next
Empire over, and let the problem empire know that you have deeper pockets
than they do.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 02:23:32 +0000
From: edjs@bitslayer.net
Subject: Re: Personal Computers and Super Computers

> From:          eris@pen.net
> Date:          Tue, 23 Jun 98 01:22:08 -0500
>
> On 06/22/98,  Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> said:
> 
> You mean the government has lifted export restrictions on PC's?  
> 
> Several years ago I worked for Radio Shack, and we weren't allowed to
> sell Model 16's to a customer in Costa Rica. Now, if you remember the
> Model 16 you know it wasn't a super computer much less a
> super-computer. ;->

   With PCs/components being produced in the millions, and by many countries 
other than the USofA, any export restrictions the US may have are irrelevant, 
I suspect.


- --
Edward Swatschek
edjs@bitslayer.net - edjs@mindlink.net - ICQ 2684960
http://home.mindlink.net/edjs/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 12:12:08 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: Re : Software

On Mon, 22 Jun 1998, Rob Day wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Kurt Feltenberger wrote (a few digests ago)
> >I remember seeing a program someone wrote some years back that would
> >generate words based on the charts given in the various supplements.  Is
> >this still out there somewhere and if so, could someone please point me in
> >the right direction to find it.  I am adding some different races into a
> >current campaign and it would be helpful to have an automatic way of
> >generating words as needed.

Along with the further mentioned web based generators I know of a
windows-based one. But I don't remember from whose website I got it ...

I myself programmed a word generator for DOS, which uses external tables
and so can generate most of the languages without problem. (Sometimes a
correction afterwards is needed)

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 03:25:04 PDT
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Vargr Tinkers

Rob wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
Use their intelligence rating as the limit on TL that they
can tinker at.

And be sure to give them social quirks and rotten charisma,
or else they WILL take over the galaxy.

Hey, this could make some corsairs very successful raiders,
if this mad scientist could sell them TL 16 military sensor 
technology...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>

All they would need to do is sell some TL 16 radiators....


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 12:40:39 +0200
From: Christian Gotschi <ChristianG@vircom.co.za>
Subject: Hello, and a question

I had one game of traveller with my group (I was GM) and it died.
The game was ok it was just a question from one of the players:

	"Why hasn't this low tech world been taken over by a higher tech
one,
	 or even some small group of high-tech pirates?"

Hmmm. Good point and we never played traveller again (well It's not only
that, we go thu many game systems)

Well what do you people say to this. I have read in the new traveller
that money rules all (non of that prime directive 'junk') If your planet
has something useful then it will become rich etc...

Well what are your reasons for why the tech levels don't even out?

Sorry if this has already been asked (I'm lazy, I'm not going to go thu
the archive)

Christian Götschi
mailto:christiang@vircom.co.za
Developer at Vircom
http://www.vircom.co.za

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 11:43:30 +0100
From: trisen@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: Pointless laws (was: Personal Computers and Super Computers)

Edward Swatschek wrote:
> Bruce Johnson said:
> > You mean the government has lifted export restrictions on PC's?
> >
> > Several years ago I worked for Radio Shack, and we weren't
> > allowed to sell Model 16's to a customer in Costa Rica. Now, if
> > you remember the Model 16 you know it wasn't a super computer
> > much less a super-computer. ;->
>
> With PCs/components being produced in the millions, and by many
> countries other than the USofA, any export restrictions the US may
> have are irrelevant,
> I suspect.

Doesn't stop them existing.  As a non-US person I can get the internaional
version of PGP encryption (with 4K-bit keys) from a
web site in Norway, yet I can't get the 128-bit key version of IE4
because of US export restrictions!  I've noticed a number of
governments seem reluctant to drop laws and regulations that
become irrelevent ... as if trying to save face by ignoring the
fact they've lost the initiative.

Now if this is a common behavior for governments then it should
be evidenced in Traveller ... both by planetary governments and
by the Imperium itself.

Here's an idea ... IIRC in CT you weren't allowed to tamper with
your ship's transponder, just turn it on or off.  This was because
pirates supposedly did give false transponder readings.  Now the
clever PCs might get round this by switching off their transponder
and mimicking its signals with the ship's main communications
system, the characteristics of which are easily changed without
physical evidence of wrong doing.  This might even be common
practice, yet the law about not tampering with the transponder
is left on the books.  This could be inconvienient when the
transponder gets damaged and the PCs do a DIY repair job ... and
then get hassled by the authorities for 'tampering'.

Regards PLST
<tagless>

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To sign up for a free email account, visit http://www.postmaster.co.uk.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:07:08 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Armed merchants

David P. Summers writes:

>Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:51:28 +0200 (METDST), Hans Rancke-Madsen
><rancke@diku.dk>
>>Also, he has a computer no better than his prey, his maneuver drive is 1G,
>>his armament is the same as his potential prey's, and he leaves a broad
>>paper trail wherever he goes.
> 
>Well, unarmed merchants do exist in the background (they may even be more
>common). How broad the paper trail is in dispute is has been beat to death
>already.

I don't think anyone (except possibly you) will argue that a ship that
visits a starport to deliver a cargo or some passengers won't leave
some kind of a trail that can be followed up on.
 
Indeed, if Imperial tax practices is in any way like the practices of its
successor, the Regency (something I would consider _very_ likely), then
every passenger and every ton of cargo will be taxed and thus generate a
paper trail.

But just delivering a cargo or a passenger will leave behind witnesses
who can tell that you were there on that particular date.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:33:35 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Armed merchants

Jay (JLAROSEE@aol.com) writes:

>   What's to prevent all these pirates we hear about originating outside the
>Imperium from pocket empires?

Try working out the economies of the idea. If they are just grabbing cargoes,
the added number of jumps between their base and their hunting ground will
cut down on their effective hunting time and require much more valuable
cargoes to support them.

>Grabbing starships in state sponsored piracy (ie:as in many of the spanish
>main pirates) may be a quick way to upgrade your tech level as well as
>supplement a local trading fleet not planning on re-entering the Imperium.

Well, if the pirates are grabbing whole ships and have a market for them,
the economic side of the problem may be solvable. Just one ship per year can
keep a Corsair grade ship in the black (may have to grab a few if the
prey is 40-year old Free Traders). But that will depend on several factors
and assumptions: How much time does the pirate spen in transit and how much
time in a system where prey may appear? What are the odds that suitable
prey will appear before an Imperial patrol? What are the odds of capturing
the prey? Again, you really need a proper example to show that it is
possible. In any case there is one absolute proviso: The pocket empire will
have to be sure that the Imperium will not come calling. There's only two
ways that can happen: 1) The Imperium never finds out, or 2) The Imperium
do not feel strong enough to come calling. I suppose the first option is
possible if you believe that insurance investigators and Imperial
intelligence agents are unable to track down these ships. As for the second
option, history shows that those pirate sancturaries that were actually
known remained inviolate only as long as the nations suffering their
depredations were too busy elsewhere to muster the strength to deal with
them (Check the Barbary Pirates and the Uskoks for two examples).
 
There's also the problem that preventing the loss of even one ship per year
will support a patrol ship. After just a few losses the insurance carriers
will propably begin hiring patrol ships, assuming for purposes of argument
that the Imperial Navy wouldn't supply a few escorts of their own (A very
iffy assumption IMO). Remember, a single squadron of half a dozen destroyers
or escorts will make any single destination too hot for Corsair sized pirates.
(Note: I said destination, not system; some systems may have more than one
destination).


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:50:36 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Pirates and merchants

Anthony Jackson writes:

>So, the worlds which are serviced by free/far/subsidised traders are mostly
>worlds with quite low trade -- probably fewer than 10 ships per month, with
>3-5 ships in port at one time (say, 1000 dT average).  With a typical ratio
>of military ships to merchant ships, this means your system defense needs
>are probably handled by a couple of fighters, your system defense budget is
>probably insufficient to support a SDB.  In addition, a patrol ship probably
>comes through every 1-2 months.

We don't know what the typical ratio of military ships to merchant ships is,
because we don't know how many merchant ships so-and-so many people "support",
the way we do with military ships. But if the number of private merchant
protectors (either free-lance or employed by insurance agencies) is similar
to the Al Morai establishment, they equal roughly 3% of the value of the
merchant shipping. If the 10 ships you are talking about (at two jumps per
month, the number of ships per month is the same as the total number of
ships) are 40 year old Free Traders, they would be worth MCr1,500 (A new
Free Trader costs MCr60, IIRC). 3% of that is MCr45. Not enough to provide
a full-time patrol ship for the system, but enough for a decent SDB. But
that is only the private side of protection. It dosen't account for any
local planetary forces or any reserve or regular fleet ships.

Of course, the moment you change some of those Free Traders into Far Traders
or Subsidized Merchants you make them worth more. Same if you make them
newer.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:29:12 +0200
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Hello, and a question

>Well what do you people say to this. I have read in the new traveller
>that money rules all (non of that prime directive 'junk') If your planet
>has something useful then it will become rich etc...
>
>Well what are your reasons for why the tech levels don't even out?

Ask the same question about the real world(tm). Tech levels do vary by a
great deal from country to country and money rules here as well.
If the real world has TL differances then Traveller should as well, right?


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 08:47:06 -0400
From: Matthew Harelick <matth@CYBERNEX.NET>
Subject: Re: Survey Responses and more Keith...

Hi:

I just joined the list,

What is LOM?

What is the "paper edition" and where is it going to be published?


Matthew

Sanders wrote:

> Bryan wrote thusly:
> >For instance, there  was at least one request to see more of the
> >Keith Brothers material. I have talked to them about this some months >ago
> now, and while they are not up to speed on the latest edition of >the
> rules, there would be the possibility of having them do some new >stuff,
> though posibly for the old rules, if the price was right >(William was
> definitely willing to do some Traveller artwork again, >Keith was a little
> iffier), what that price might be would >understandably be needed to be
> discussed).
>
> I've just taken "Letter of Marque" to the printer...should have it back and
> in the mail in one week. While it's been fun doing the limited TML paper
> edition, I think a cd-rom would certainly be one valid way to go for any
> future editions of LOM.
>
> With that in mind, I'd like to announce that I've just concluded a deal
> with Andrew Keith to purchase the following previously unpublished
> manuscripts - and I am certainly open to the cd route of release if Marc is
> agreeable. My only desire is that they be released in their 'original'
> Classic Traveller form (i.e. as written). If someone wanted to produce a
> companion article for the cd detailing the ways and means of converting
> them to other versions of Traveller, that would be fine course.
>
> The manuscripts are:
>
> "Rogues in Space I: Letter of Marque"
>      We all know about this one...
>
> "Rogues in Space II: 'Scams & Cons" (working title only)
>        Interstellar Mafia anyone? Another in the boxed module series.
>
> "Starport - Planetfall"
>        The *really* Complete Starport upon which the _Far & Away_
>        articles borrowed a miniscule portion of material from.
>         Actually - "Startown" was supposed to have been the
>         companion-scenario followup book for this product.
>
> "Artic Environment"
>        Another in the hostile environment series - and Andrew has
> expressed an interest in writing a companion-scenario book for          this
> as well.
>
> And...saving the best for last...(believe me - I was up most of last night
> reading it!)
>
> "Faldor - World of Adventure"
>         This was to have been another in the boxed module series. Like  "Tarsus"
> it is a fully detailed world - in this case, a formerly         'lost' Darrian
> colony which regressed to a lower tech level, and       is presently rife with
> Darrian, Sword World, Zhodani, and of   course Imperial agents all striving
> to sway the locals towards      their own particular interests. Needless to
> say....the      'primitives' prove more than a match for them all. ;)
>
> L8r,
> Paul Sanders
> timmon@primenet.com
>
> P.S. If he's listening, I'd like to urge Roger Sanger to consider this
> route for the release of the 'lost' DGP gem - "The Black Duke".

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 09:10:49 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Jobs for Traveller Players

>> Need any lawyers?
>
>Don't they shoot the l*wy*rs first??

Gotta hire at least one, then.  Cannon fodder.  :-)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 09:43:17 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Hello, and a question

>I had one game of traveller with my group (I was GM) and it died.
>The game was ok it was just a question from one of the players:
>
>	"Why hasn't this low tech world been taken over by a higher tech
>one,
>	 or even some small group of high-tech pirates?"
>
>Hmmm. Good point and we never played traveller again (well It's not only
>that, we go thu many game systems)
>
>Well what do you people say to this. I have read in the new traveller
>that money rules all (non of that prime directive 'junk') If your planet
>has something useful then it will become rich etc...
>
>Well what are your reasons for why the tech levels don't even out?

There are several possible answers of varying degrees of likelihood and
potential veracity, but basically (IMO) it comes down to the fact that the
planets are randomly generated.  I might say "hey, It's just a game", but I
can feel the stirrings in my digits that require me to lift them up and
wave them around in the following fashion;

What follows is a guideline in My Traveller Universe.  You mileage may
vary, but I do blieve in Canon (I do! I do!), and this is how I choose to
interpret it.

Tech Level is a measure of what products can be produced on a given world.
In order to produce a product, much more than, say, a sample of such a
product is needed to produce that product.

For example, You can bring a Sony Discman to The Republic of Congo
(randomly selected "third world" country), their people can take it apart,
figure out how it works, try to reproduce it, but without the
infrastructure of chemical companies, wire manufacturers, plastic makers,
chip manufacturers, the construction techniques and equipment to build the
appropriate plants and tools,  etc they will not be able to reproduce the
item.  There is simply too much technological infrastructure needed to do
so.

So, why doesn't a high tech world move in and take over?  Well, The
Imperium frowns a bit on that sort of relationship, but that would not keep
it from happening sometimes.  The real reasons are more economic, and there
are several possibilities (which, I think, all happen somewhere), and some
general conditions which apply.

First the individual cases

1). The high tech planet wants that low tech planet around and independent
to provide markets, cheap labor, and to sell its raw resources cheaply to
the high tech planet.  The relationship is roughly similar to the Imperial
era on Earth; Industrial countries like England, The Netherlands, France
and Spain colonized less developed areas and turned them into markets for
their finished goods and sources of valuable raw materials or materials not
available locally.  A likely twist is that, if the high tech planet takes
over, the caputuring government will probably have to dump a lot of money
into the new colony to follow it's own laws/standards (i.e. provide
"minimum wage" and welfare/healthcare/basic services).

2). The higher tech world may, in fact, take over the lower tech world.
This is the source of all those planets with the subject government type.

3). The world in question may not be worth taking over because of the lack
of valuable local resources (worth exporting).

4). The world may not be near enough to any high tech aggressive world to
be taken over.

Now some general conditions;

1). Raising the tech level of a planet is *expensive*.  It takes a lot of
people to provide a worthy infrastructure, and it takes a lot of investment
in infrastructure over time to build a high tech world.

2). Taking over a world is *expensive*, transporting troops (even high tech
numerically inferior quantities) and their equipment requires a tremendous
amount of hull tonnage, and their supplies must follow for at least some
time.

3). Many planets are *worthless*.  To have value a planet must have people
(colonizing is also a very expensive prospect) and resources.  The UPP does
not generally reflect resources (except air and water, which are very
important actually) but it does reflect population, and with almost 50% of
the planets having pop 6 or less (and most less) there is a lot of
uninhabited ground in the Imperium.

4). Many planet's governments are not interested in taking over another
planet. Many (most) worlds have their own problems.  Taking over a lower
tech neighbor is low on their list of things to do, especially if they have
their own revolutionaries, droughts, Union Strikes, political elections,
economic woes, etc. etc. to deal with.  It takes a determined populace and
aggressive, charismatic government to wage a war across parsecs against
another planet, and most worlds have other things to think about.

5). In the context of the Imperium, taking over other worlds in not usually
considered kosher.  Outside the Imperium and other organized goverments may
be different, but then the resources are even fewer and further between.
The Imperial Government wants planets to exist as independent members of
the Imperium.  Now, there are some captive government types around that are
generally "owned" by some nearby planet's government.  I would call this
the exception, and expect to find some valuable resource or cultural
animosity at the root of the reason for the takeover.

I guess that's aenough for now.

Pete


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 09:33:57 -0400
From: warmind@juno.com (james a clem)
Subject: Re: Hello, and a question

On Tue, 23 Jun 1998 12:40:39 +0200 Christian Gotschi
<ChristianG@vircom.co.za> writes:
>	"Why hasn't this low tech world been taken over by a higher 
>tech
>one,

IMTU, the players campaign area is just recently pulling out of a Long
Night situation (very long night, at least 8,000 years or so), so there
are lots of old colonies that have slipped in tech during that time.  

>	 or even some small group of high-tech pirates?"

Pirates! Did I hear someone say <gasp> PIRATES!!!!!  Seriously, IMTU,
piracy doesnt work very well, resources to support ships is stretched a
bit thin, hard enough to maintain a legit vessel.  Mercenaries work
though.


Jim A. Clem, B.S.E.
CEO and Founder, Diasporan Industries, Inc.
www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081/
Traveller Geek Code tc+ tm !tn tt t4+ ru+() ge++ !3i jt au (+) st ls(+)
pi- he++ merc++ dt+++
GM:  The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 16:51:26 +0100
From: trisen@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: Coreward Spinward Marches (Was: EAST EUROPE)

Hello!

If you ever:

Need accomodation on Yori...
Need transportation and/or guide...

Please visit our page at:
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen/personal/traveller/yori.html

Thank you for your time and have a nice day!

Foxnard Leo
Enjoy Yori LIC.

___________________________________
To sign up for a free email account, visit http://www.postmaster.co.uk.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 16:50:33 +0100 (BST)
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Hello, and a question

But High tech worlds do take over low tech worlds, isn't this how empires
are built ? Isn't this how the Imperium came about ? Just because the
Imperium is nice enough to let the worlds rule themselves on a planetary
basis, or perhaps a system basis, dosn't mean it dosn't rule them. The
Imperium is an empire, the worlds are members of that empire, members have
rights, and one is obviously not alowed to take over another (this means
that if you already had another planet when you joined you still have it,
cos you joined as a two planet goverment ....)

comments ?

	Ewan Quibell
	Data Communications Technician        The Game's afoot:
	Computer Centre                       Follow your spirit, and apon
	University of Brighton                  this charge
                                              Cry 'God for Harry, England,
	E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              and Saint George !'

                                                    Henry V 3:1
	#include<stddisclamer.h>                    W. Shakespeare

	My spelling is entierly due to dyslexia, typoes and poetic license

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #603
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Tuesday, June 23 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 604



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Coreward Spinward Marches (Was: EAST EUROPE)
Coreward Spinward Marches (Was: EAST EUROPE)
Re: Pirates and merchants
Re: Coreward Spinward Marches
Re: Jobs for Traveller Players
Re: Jobs for Traveller Players
Re: Vargr Tech Levels and world 0439 
Re: Personal Computers and Super Computers [LONG]
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #602
Re: Armed merchants
Re: Vargr Tech Levels and world 0439
Off topic...
Re: Pirates and merchants
Re: Vargr Tech Levels and world 0439
Re: Vargr Tech Levels and world 0439 
Re: Vargr Tech Levels and world 0439 
Re: Off topic... 
Re: Armed merchants
2 Scout Questions
Re: 2 Scout Questions
Government type?
Re: Government type?
[none]
Zucchai Crystals as Heat Sinks
Zuchai Crystals as Heat Sinks
IMTU codes
Re: Hello, and a question

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 16:53:25 +0100
From: trisen@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: Coreward Spinward Marches (Was: EAST EUROPE)

Hello!

If you ever:

Need accomodation on Yori...
Need transportation and/or guide...

Please visit our page at:
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen/personal/traveller/yori.html

Thank you for your time and have a nice day!

Foxnard Leo
Enjoy Yori LIC.

___________________________________
To sign up for a free email account, visit http://www.postmaster.co.uk.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 16:53:33 +0100
From: trisen@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: Coreward Spinward Marches (Was: EAST EUROPE)

Hello!

If you ever:

Need accomodation on Yori...
Need transportation and/or guide...

Please visit our page at:
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen/personal/traveller/yori.html

Thank you for your time and have a nice day!

Foxnard Leo
Enjoy Yori LIC.

___________________________________
To sign up for a free email account, visit http://www.postmaster.co.uk.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 09:03:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Pirates and merchants

Hans Rancke-Madsen writes:
> We don't know what the typical ratio of military ships to merchant ships
> is, because we don't know how many merchant ships so-and-so many people
> "support", the way we do with military ships. But if the number of private
> merchant protectors (either free-lance or employed by insurance agencies) is
> similar to the Al Morai establishment, they equal roughly 3% of the value of
> the merchant shipping. If the 10 ships you are talking about (at two jumps
> per month, the number of ships per month is the same as the total number of
> ships) are 40 year old Free Traders, they would be worth MCr1,500 (A new
> Free Trader costs MCr60, IIRC). 3% of that is MCr45. Not enough to provide
> a full-time patrol ship for the system, but enough for a decent SDB. But
> that is only the private side of protection. It dosen't account for any
> local planetary forces or any reserve or regular fleet ships.

Let's see: if they are _new_ free traders, that's (10*60)=600 MCr, which gives
a defense budged of $18 MCr.  We'll assume that actually is accurate, because
planetary defense ships are subject to depreciation too.

Now, those 10 ships are making transits between two worlds.  Thus, 9 MCr at
each end.

Of course, a typical ratio of military expenses to merchant expenses might be
closer to 5-6%, and might climb as high as 10% on minor worlds (this is _all_
expenses, government and merchant included).  That lets us assume 30 MCr in
system defense.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 17:14:57 +0100
From: trisen@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: Re: Coreward Spinward Marches

Apologies to the list for multiple sending last message ... f***ing dum
email package!

Regards PLST
<tagless>

___________________________________
To sign up for a free email account, visit http://www.postmaster.co.uk.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 12:29:33 -0400
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Jobs for Traveller Players

Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:

> > Need any lawyers?
>
> Don't they shoot the l*wy*rs first??

The anarchists do, because Lawyers are antithetical to chaos.
If you read the whole play, thats clear.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 18:12:05 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Jobs for Traveller Players

Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior) wrote:

>>> Need any lawyers?
>>Don't they shoot the l*wy*rs first??
>Gotta hire at least one, then.  Cannon fodder.  :-)

No, No, No... you feed lawyers to Dinosaurs!


Dom (Apologies to Steve, Roderick....)


- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:49:42 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Vargr Tech Levels and world 0439 

> > From: Keven R. Pittsinger <jamstar@glasscity.net>
> > > > > Hey, this could make some corsairs very successful raiders,
> > > > > if this mad scientist could sell them TL 16 military sensor
> > > > > technology...
> > > > "Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?"
> 
> Concidering they are Vargr, should that not be Puppy?  As in Puppy & the
> Brain?
> 
> > > "I think so Brain. But how are we going to fit tiny beanie hats on all
> > > the Chirpers?"
> > "Pinky, I think I'm going to have to hurt you now..."
> 
> They're Puppy & the Brain
> They're Puppy & the Brain
> Their twilight campaign is easy to explain.
> To prove their Vargr worth
> They'll overthrow the Imps
> They're Puppy & the Brain, Brain, Brain
> Narf.

I think some of us have too much time on our hands Saturday mornings.

Now point me the way to Acme Pound and I'm on my way...

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 20:26:30 +0200
From: "Jonas Karlsson" <Jonas.Karlsson@baldakinen.umea.se>
Subject: Re: Personal Computers and Super Computers [LONG]

> From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

> I wanna see 'em _try_ to do export restrictions on PC's.

Your wish is granted.

http://www.technetcast.com/hz-db-980618.html

Be careful what you wish for. It may come true.

<sigh>

Oh well. A list of mirrors is at:

http://web.linpeople.org/beowulf/

Beowulf: The Source Is Out There...

- --
|     Jonas.Karlsson@baldakinen.umea.se      | I am a number,  |
|        Jonas.Karlsson@capgemini.se         | not a man! - 42 |

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 11:30:07 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #602

Tue, 23 Jun 1998 17:35:42, Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
>Well, unarmed merchants do exist in the background (they
>may even be more common).  How broad the paper trail
>is in dispute is has been beat to death already.

In the interest of historical accuracy, it wasnt beaten to death. The
pro-piracy camp essentially said 'Merchant ships wont create a paper trail'
and left it at that.

Well, no.  I was beaten to death and I, for one, never claimed they
would leave _no_ paper trail.  The debate go into wether transponders
can be fooled, what codes exists, how easy it was to forge documents,
how often they would be checked, etc.  This was all hashed of repeatedly
when this first(?) become an issue a year or two ago.  It all came
down to, as much of this does, with how you see the Imperium workings.

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 11:33:00 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Armed merchants

Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:07:08 +0200 (METDST), Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
>I don't think anyone (except possibly you) will argue that a ship that
>visits a starport to deliver a cargo or some passengers won't leave
>some kind of a trail that can be followed up on.

True, since even I don't argue that.  The question was wether the
paper trail is a "broad" one (and how accurate it is).

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 11:34:39 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Vargr Tech Levels and world 0439

Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:

> I think some of us have too much time on our hands Saturday mornings.
> 
> Now point me the way to Acme Pound and I'm on my way...
> 

A few words: Cable TV, WGN (Chicago superstation), 8:00 AM mon-thurs. Be
there. On fridays it's on at 7:30

Ooooh naaaaarf.

(at least in my neck of the woods it's on then, but if you get WGN it
should be on the scedule)

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 11:37:11 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Off topic...

but still RPG fodder.

go here:

http://onastick.net/sitz/images/

and spew liquids on your computer. at least I did.

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:40:45 -0600
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: Re: Pirates and merchants

>If the 10 ships you are talking about (at two jumps per
>month, the number of ships per month is the same as the total number of
>ships) are 40 year old Free Traders, they would be worth MCr1,500 (A new
>Free Trader costs MCr60, IIRC).

Okay, this lost me. Where does the MCr 1,500 figure come from? If new they
are 60 MCr a piece new, then 10 would only have a value of 600 MCr, no?

Ciao,

- --------------------
Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net
- --------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:45:55 -0400
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Vargr Tech Levels and world 0439

Bruce Johnson wrote:

> Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:
>
> > I think some of us have too much time on our hands Saturday mornings.
> >
> > Now point me the way to Acme Pound and I'm on my way...
> >
>
> A few words: Cable TV, WGN (Chicago superstation), 8:00 AM mon-thurs. Be
> there. On fridays it's on at 7:30
>
> Ooooh naaaaarf.
>
> (at least in my neck of the woods it's on then, but if you get WGN it
> should be on the scedule)

Weekdays 4:00pm on the WB.  Plus Animaniacs at 3:30

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 15:36:04 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Vargr Tech Levels and world 0439 

> Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:
> 
> > I think some of us have too much time on our hands Saturday mornings.
> > 
> > Now point me the way to Acme Pound and I'm on my way...
> > 
> 
> A few words: Cable TV, WGN (Chicago superstation), 8:00 AM mon-thurs. Be
> there. On fridays it's on at 7:30
> 
> Ooooh naaaaarf.
> 
> (at least in my neck of the woods it's on then, but if you get WGN it
> should be on the scedule)

WGN's part of deluxe cable here & all I have is basic.  But ToledoVison 5 has Animaniacs at 3:30 PM M-F, followed by Pinky & The Brain, and Sunday morning they do both again.

ObTrav:

Which do you think owuld make the better Vargr, Pinky & The Brain or the Warners?

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 15:37:09 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Vargr Tech Levels and world 0439 

> > A few words: Cable TV, WGN (Chicago superstation), 8:00 AM mon-thurs. Be
> > there. On fridays it's on at 7:30
> >
> > Ooooh naaaaarf.
> >
> > (at least in my neck of the woods it's on then, but if you get WGN it
> > should be on the scedule)
> 
> Weekdays 4:00pm on the WB.  Plus Animaniacs at 3:30

Sounds like Toledo to me.  <grin>

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 15:49:54 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Off topic... 

> go here:
> 
> http://onastick.net/sitz/images/
> 
> and spew liquids on your computer. at least I did.

At least they're not Care Bears...

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:28:59 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Armed merchants

Hello,
>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
>Subject: Re: Armed merchants
...
>>Reviving the hypothetical "pirate of opportunity", you take a merchant
>>(note: I didn't specify "honest merchant") with a tramp/free trader on the
>>periphery, who only commits an act of piracy if presented with an excellent
>>opportunity and otherwise conducts a career as a conventional freighter / 
>>trader business.
>
>Said merchant is certainly possible, but he is not generally the one that
>shows up in the starship encounter tables, nor is he generally one of those
>pirates that buy Corsairs, nor one of those pirates we have seen in various
>Traveller adventures.

  Well, I'm not going to touch the "who builds/buys Corsairs" thing :) It's not
necessarily clear what the tables mean to throw up, and clarification of said
tables is easy and has almost no impact on canon.

>Also, he has a computer no better than his prey, his maneuver drive is 1G,
>his armament is the same as his potential prey's, and he leaves a broad
>paper trail wherever he goes. 

  All quite true. Hopefully his prey is suffering from some temporary
dysfunction
(it is often 40+ years old), he/she may have a heavier than average weapons load
and/or good gunners or the target may be markedly substandard in these
respects -
a Far Trader would have a better comp, IIRC. The paper trail is irrelevant until
such time as an act of piracy is attempted (which may never occur for a given
subject), and then things get exciting.

  If nobody is around, you can ditch the target for recovery later, decoupling
yourself from the paper trail relating to its' loss. The cargo and or ship can
either be picked up later or "salvaged" _years_ later. Either of these could
involve selling to a non-pirate organized crime group, or it could be directly
utilized for shuttling goods from one outer system/deep space rendezvous to
another to help more conventional smugglers avoid leaving too obvious paper
trails.

  Ultimately my point is that this "potential" pirate can exist in sufficient
quantities to meet the "piracy threat" role without being subject to the same
limitations as renders some of the others problematic.

        Yours truly,
                Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 16:54:04 EDT
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: 2 Scout Questions

1) Can Scout vessals refuel and resupply at Naval stations? 2) Did the Scout
service survey the Far Frontier and Foreven Sectors??

Thanks.

Mike McKeown

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:25:56 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: 2 Scout Questions

Qstor@aol.com wrote:
> 
> 1) Can Scout vessals refuel and resupply at Naval stations? 2) Did the Scout
> service survey the Far Frontier and Foreven Sectors??

1) IN-service, yes; detached service, probably not. (meaning no, the
PC's cannot just drop in and refuel/resupply. They may be able to if the
navy portmaster is asked prettyplease with a cherry on top, likes
scouts, and can charge back the IISS. Since the IISS uses these
occasions to debrief the detaches scouts, I'd say it was unlikely to be
a common occurence.

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 22:01:04 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Government type?

OK, I'm sitting here reading some favorite out-of-print SF, and
trying to figure out how to convert the society into Traveller
terms.  The governmental organization is as follows:

There is a single central government which is responsible for a
very limited set of functions - one specific function that could
best be called medical, plus minor ancillary functions such as
maintaining and managing a common currency. Employees/agents/
officials/functionaries are selected and assigned jobs primarily
on essential ability (and there is a chronic shortage of
properly-trained and skilled individuals).

Subordinate but largely autonomous are territorial governments,
whose primary functions are managing regional and
interterritorial trade.  These territorial governments have
effective diplomatic powers for managing certain aspects of
relationships between territories or between citizens of
different territories.  There are laws governing who may or may
not be a citizen of a territory; for various reasons, someone
born in one territory may not be eligible for citizenship in that
territory, and in fact may be in danger of being killed if they
do not leave the territory at majority.  Territories may assess
taxes for various purposes which seem good to that territory, and
apportion them accordingly.

Subordinate to the territories are counties, which may assess
property taxes for certain purposes. Counties may also raise
militias, and regulate subregional commerce.  They are also
influential in the decision on routes in the transportation
network, although the territorial government generally makes the
final decisions.

Counties are made up of municipalities, which have essentially
the same (or greater) home-rule powers that one sees in
municipalities in much of the United States.

The overall population density is roughly that of the nebulous
area of the United States that's south of the Rust Belt, north of
the Sun Belt, and east of the Corn Belt (or on its eastern
fringe) - very few large cities (almost none with a population as
high as 750,000), many small towns, with plenty of open space
between the towns.  

TL is somewhat variable - from candles and iceboxes in many areas
(but light bulbs and refrigerators in others) to what are
essentially maglevs for intermunicipal transportation, personal
autos are either internal combustion or electric, state-of-the-
art for information technology is printed books (assume hot metal
presses), photography is box cameras and glass plates, and
writing is at the fountain-pen-and-inkwell stage; medicine is
fundamentally what we would call "alternative" (but it really
works!); although "mainstream" technologies such as transfusion
and surgery are known, and pharmaceuticals are also known, they
are used much less frequently than in pre-starflight Terra.

<< I've been deliberately vague about some things; the reason
I've been vague also precludes me from identifying the books in
question, and from being more specific about the reason. I
apologize for this; but I thought this could start up an
interesting thread, and perhaps exposes some shortcomings in the
UWP. >>
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 15:37:55 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Government type?

Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
> 
> OK, I'm sitting here reading some favorite out-of-print SF, and
> trying to figure out how to convert the society into Traveller
> terms.  The governmental organization is as follows:
> 
> There is a single central government which is responsible for a
> very limited set of functions -

Well, it al depends on how that government derives it's power; after
all, that's what governs a government type. As stated, _any_ traveller
government type would qualify.

Is the governemnt eelected, imposed, a dictatorship, a corporate state,
a anarcho-syndicalist commune?

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:32:09 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: [none]

>Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 17:51:02 -0400
>From: Matthew Harelick <matth@CYBERNEX.NET>
>Subject: Roleplaying Question: Aslan Occupied Systems

>If a character is on a planet recently taken over by Aslan invasion, how
>would the Imperium citizens be treated? Would they be eaten, enslaved,
>monitored? What would life be like on that planet and the planets in
>that system?

Depends upon their reaction to the aslan. If they turn over unused lands to
aslan settlers, they will probably be allowed to continue almost unaffected.

If they resist, they may be toast. If they welcome them, slow integration.

all based upon DGP's S&A

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 15:01:11 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Zucchai Crystals as Heat Sinks

<not quoting long passage on using Z-crystals as heat sinks>

Most batteries are exothermic during charging... and many are exothermic
duing discharge. Real batteries always lose energy both ways (in and out).
Capacitors also have heat based entropic losses, as do electric
non-superconductors. FWIW, I read that even lot-temp (as opposed to
cryogenic) superconductors lose energy to radiation and heat.

Also, how are you converting the heat into energy you can store?

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 19:27:05 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Zuchai Crystals as Heat Sinks

William Hostman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Also, how are you converting the heat into energy you can store?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
With the Thermal Conversion Unit. There, see it, it's the little black box
right next to the big black box that holds the Jump Drive. How does it
work? Tsk tsk tsk, you'd think anyone with a working knowledge of
TL-12 Thermodyne technology would know the answer to that question...
how could Fusion+ plants work without it? Solved those pesky heat
emission problems too...<g>

Walt Smith

___________________
"In conclusion, remember that Traveller is a game, and that it goes
differently for everyone who plays. Bon Voyage!" - Adventure #1, "Kinunir",
page 44.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:58:01 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: IMTU codes

Could some kind soul lease point me in the direction of the web site where the 
key to these is stored? Thanks

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 16:06:28 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Hello, and a question

In mail you write:

> I had one game of traveller with my group (I was GM) and it died.
> The game was ok it was just a question from one of the players:
>
>         "Why hasn't this low tech world been taken over by a higher tech
>          one, or even some small group of high-tech pirates?"
>
> Hmmm. Good point and we never played traveller again (well It's not only
> that, we go thu many game systems)
>
> Well what do you people say to this. I have read in the new traveller
> that money rules all (non of that prime directive 'junk') If your planet
> has something useful then it will become rich etc...
>
> Well what are your reasons for why the tech levels don't even out?

Why haven't tech levels evened out on Earth? Because there's no reason
for the folks with the high tech *to* give it away to the low tech
people, and the low tech people can't *afford* to buy much of it. 

As most colonial empires on Earth found out, it's easier to let the
natives run the country (planet) and just buy the resources from them.
Especially when you have something they need (like spare parts for such
high tech as they have). 

You can't really support most high tech from "outside". You need to
have native industry if you want more than a small amount of high tech
stuff. 

Consumer goods are easy because they either aren't *worth* fixing (who
fixes a cheap transistor radio when it breaks?) It's cheaper to buy a
replacement. And if the item is relatively rugged, it'll sell. If it
isn't, only the richer natives will have one, because only they can
afford to replace/repair it frequently. 

"Industrial" and "miltary" type equipment will be limited to the sort
of things that can be repaired by *local* techs using imported parts.
And preferences will be given to items which can be maintained more
easily. That is, with either locally availble tools, or a minimum of
skills or with cheap parts.

The exceptions will be equipment that the natives feel they need badly
enough to pay for imported technians, and expensive spare parts. 

So even low tech worlds are likely to have some "hi tech" gear. Radios
are a likely candidate. A few cheap satellites in orbit and you can
broadcast stuff to the whole planet. Heck, even the Romans would see
the advantages to being able to get info to the people that quickly and
without it getting distorted. And things like weather reports, and
educational broadcasts are worthwhile too. 

Another possibilitie is two-way radios, or more likely something along
the lines of a satellitte based cell phone system. Even if they are
limited to the "upper crust" , they are still damned useful.

And they'll pay for such medical stuff as they can use within their
infrastructure. 

Note that this is almost exactly how the highest tech gets into "third
world" countries now. 

This also has some interesting effects on adventures. Like when the
players find out that the native guide who seems to be uncannily good
at predicting the weather has been checking the weather broadcasts from
the satellite network. 

Or when they discover that after they escaped from some incident in a
remote location, the word got spread all over by using cell phones :-).

And the local "witch doctor" may be using imported drugs and
technology. Heck, given what we've learned over the years, I suspect
that it'd be both more profitable and *less* disruptive for the medical
companies and even "charity" type medical organizations to enlist the
aid of the local "doctors" even if they are some sort of shaman. 

Not only will this avoid turf fights, but by allowing the locals to
"save face", they are going to have a better chance of getting info on
"native remedies" from them. And as we've learned here on earth, some
of those turn out to be important new drugs. 

It'll take a little longer to set up, but in the long run, you'd wind
up with more care going to the natives *and* more info/profits going to
the off-worlders. 

And who's to say that getting your antibiotics combined with the
traditional healing ceremonies *won't* get you well faster. Even if
it's just a placebo effect, it works!

And BTW, don't discount tradition as a reason why a culture *doesn't*
go "hi tech". They may well decide that they don't *want* many of the
"benefits". And it'll be a rare case when there's much profit in
forcing something on them. It's easier to find a planet where the
natives are willing to buy what you are selling. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #604
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Wednesday, June 24 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 605



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Personal Computers and Super Computers
Re: Imperial tax practices
Re: IMTU codes
Re: Armed merchants
Re: Jobs for Traveller Players
Re: Helping out pirates
Re: Off topic...
Re: Hello, and a question
Re: Hello, and a question
Re: Survey Responses and more Keith...
Re: Pirates and merchants
Searching some ideas
Re: Armed merchants
Re: Zuchai Crystals as Heat Sinks
Re: Nobles of the Spinward Marches
Re: Off topic...
Local defense budget (was: Pirates and merchants)
Re: Helping out pirates
Re: Helping out pirates 
Re: Local defense budget (was: Pirates and merchants)
Re: Local defense budget (was: Pirates and merchants)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 16:02:20 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Personal Computers and Super Computers

In mail you write:

>> From:          eris@pen.net
>> Date:          Tue, 23 Jun 98 01:22:08 -0500
>>
>> On 06/22/98,  Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> said:
>> 
>> You mean the government has lifted export restrictions on PC's?  
>> 
>> Several years ago I worked for Radio Shack, and we weren't allowed to
>> sell Model 16's to a customer in Costa Rica. Now, if you remember the
>> Model 16 you know it wasn't a super computer much less a
>> super-computer. ;->
>
>    With PCs/components being produced in the millions, and by many countries 
> other than the USofA, any export restrictions the US may have are 
> irrelevant,  I suspect.

They are quite relevant TO PEOPLE IN THE US. 

The classic example (which is worthy of being incorporated into a
Traveller scenario) is a researcher who bought a PC clone in Bulgaria
(this was *before* the fall of the USSR). He got it back to the US with
no trouble. Then when he tried to take it with him on his next trip to
Eastern Europe, customs wouldn't let him!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 19:54:43 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Imperial tax practices

>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
...
>Indeed, if Imperial tax practices is in any way like the practices of its
>successor, the Regency (something I would consider _very_ likely), then
>every passenger and every ton of cargo will be taxed and thus generate a
>paper trail.

  That brings up the question of how applicable the RSB taxation description
(p. 7) is to the earlier 3I. Admittedly it doesn't say that any of those tax
bases are innovations, and further I'll assume that the author did check with
other GDW staff for ideas. I guess as a CT person I'd have to ask whether TNE
players felt that TNE material (and the RSB in particular) was accurate enough
to be applied to the preceding game settings.

  Did TNE entail changes in freight and passage charges?

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 20:43:44 -0700
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Re: IMTU codes

http://www.metronet.com/~washi/Tas/Lists/IMTU.html

E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller
IMTU tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls 
The early bird gets the worm, BUT
   the second mouse gets the cheese!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:35:01 +1200
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Armed merchants

>I don't think anyone (except possibly you) will argue that a ship that
>visits a starport to deliver a cargo or some passengers won't leave
>some kind of a trail that can be followed up on.
>
>Indeed, if Imperial tax practices is in any way like the practices of its
>successor, the Regency (something I would consider _very_ likely), then
>every passenger and every ton of cargo will be taxed and thus generate a
>paper trail.
>
>But just delivering a cargo or a passenger will leave behind witnesses
>who can tell that you were there on that particular date.


So what you do is don't deliver them to a starport, use what most criminals
use, a fence. Find a merchant who will take the goods and resell them as his
own thus generating a brand new 'legitimate' paper trail. The old goods just
disappear. It's a bit like laundering money really, but you do it with cargo
instead.

Cheers,
 Anson

I want to die in my sleep like my grandfather,
not screaming and yelling like the passengers in his car.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:59:11 +1200
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Jobs for Traveller Players

>>>> Need any lawyers?
>>>Don't they shoot the l*wy*rs first??
>>Gotta hire at least one, then.  Cannon fodder.  :-)
>
>No, No, No... you feed lawyers to Dinosaurs!
>


ROFLPIMP!

Cheers,
 Anson

I want to die in my sleep like my grandfather,
not screaming and yelling like the passengers in his car.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:47:20 +1200
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Helping out pirates

>(if anyone
>builds a decent missile without using t-playtes or Heplar, I have the
>civilian det-laser warhead ... guaranteed immune to nuclear damper fields).


I'm intrigued, how does it work?

Cheers,
 Anson

I want to die in my sleep like my grandfather,
not screaming and yelling like the passengers in his car.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:27:25 +1200
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Off topic...

>but still RPG fodder.
>
>go here:
>
>http://onastick.net/sitz/images/
>
>and spew liquids on your computer. at least I did.
>
husplrrffff!!

How do I get coffee out of my old keyboard?


Cheers,
 Anson

I want to die in my sleep like my grandfather,
not screaming and yelling like the passengers in his car.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:56:00 +1200
From: Steve Rennell <wulf@sea.southern.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Hello, and a question

In reply to the question 
> >Well what are your reasons for why the tech levels don't even out?

anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman) wrote: 
> Ask the same question about the real world(tm). Tech levels do vary by a
> great deal from country to country and money rules here as well.
> If the real world has TL differances then Traveller should as well, right?

Yeah, and you can still get AK-47's cheaper in Somalia
than in the US. In Eritrea during the war with Ethiopia (a
civil war by some descriptions) the locals were able to
_make_ copies of AK-47's using metal recovered from shot
down aircraft, in underground workshops with minimal
tools. 

Some high tech business decides that it's cheaper to 
produce computer parts in Korea than in the Us, and twenty 
years later Korea has a very fine technology thank you.

The Empire works on a scale of centuries rather than 
decades. There hasn't been huge technological advances in 
the wealthier states, (the max-TL has hardly moved in 300 
years) so I can't see why TL doesn't seep.

Consider also that regardless of whether a planet is Tech 6 
or not, if it has trade contacts with the Empire, you can 
bet that they have tech 10 ACR's at the least, and probably 
higher. 

Consider the Maori in New Zealand in the 1840's -- 
they had almost no industry, but they bought muskets off 
the europeans and proceeded to have a series of bloody 
high-tech (by the lights of the day) wars.

I also agree with Peter Brenton about TL being mostly a 
measure of industrial base. If a planet is TL12, it can 
produce TL12 goods. I can easily imagine a TL 4 planet that 
imports TL12 farm machinery to work the land, becuase the 
payoffs in production of agricultural produce are worth the 
interplanetary hard currency. TL is not a very good 
indicator of what equipment the locals will have, just what 
they don't have to import.

Steve

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:56:50 +0200
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Hello, and a question

>The Empire works on a scale of centuries rather than
>decades. There hasn't been huge technological advances in
>the wealthier states, (the max-TL has hardly moved in 300
>years) so I can't see why TL doesn't seep.
>
>Consider also that regardless of whether a planet is Tech 6
>or not, if it has trade contacts with the Empire, you can
>bet that they have tech 10 ACR's at the least, and probably
>higher.

Look in your Traveller book regarding TL of a planet.
The maximum TL that can be LOCALLY PRODUCED.
Your TL 6 planet will have all those neato high TL gadgets that they can
afford but their basic infrastructure will be TL 6.
How is Somalia wired, what is the basic mode of transportation there, how
is food produced, old, packaged etc etc.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 07:41:56 -0400
From: "Alan M. Nuss" <amnuss@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Survey Responses and more Keith...

X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

How much and when can I send a check!!!   :)

If you are going to put these on CD then I suggest that they be in a
format that anyone can read.  ie. Adobe Acrobat.

Those of us with Mac's can read disks and CD's formated for Wintell machines,
we just have to be able to run the files on them.  There are programs that are
on both types, like Excel, Microsoft Word, ect. which a file created by a
Wintell can be accessed by a Mac running the appropriate application.

Alan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:42:09 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Pirates and merchants

Anthony Jackson writes:

>Hans Rancke-Madsen writes:

>>If the 10 ships you are talking about [...] are 40 year old Free Traders,
>>they would be worth MCr1,500 (A new Free Trader costs MCr60, IIRC).
>
>Let's see: if they are _new_ free traders, that's (10*60)=600 MCr, which gives
>a defense budged of $18 MCr.

Ooops. <BLUSH!>

Joseph R. Dietrich writes:

>Okay, this lost me. Where does the MCr 1,500 figure come from? If new they
>are 60 MCr a piece new, then 10 would only have a value of 600 MCr, no?

I made a basic decimal error. The MCr1,500 should be MCr150, based on the
assumption that a 40 year old ship is worth ~25% of its original cost.
 
It's always good to have your figures double-checked by someone else...


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:44:18 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Searching some ideas

There are some ideas I got which maybe yon can help me with:

ad 1:

As the law level only states the weapons that are not allowed to be used,
how do I find out about conviction and punishment methods, if someone acts
against other laws and gets catched? Maybe combination Gov/Law and Pop can
help with this?

Will the criminals be
- - imprisoned (in a prison like Alcatraz, Devils Island, or Manhattan)
- - imprisoned in public (a kind of modern pillory)
- - imprisoned at home (with a surveillance device attached or subcutan)
- - imprisoned virtually (in a cyber-prison)
- - deep-frozen (Cold Berths)
- - banned (If someone else wants you then)
- - re-educated (Brainwash or Zhodani method ...)
- - convicted to death, yes or no?

I'm looking for some 'interesting' ways of punishment and criminal
prosecution, so that my characters have to find out what to do if one of
them fails in upholding the law.

Some ideas that came to me yet are from 'Star Trek: TNG - Justice', and a
view of a community, where each lawbreaker gets a punishment, which puts
him into a situation equal to his victim's. (i.e. kidnappers are locked
up, thieves lose their possessions, killers get ... hm.)

What did you use/see/think of?


ad 2:

For my campaign I am searching for metals used by the ancients for their
artifacts. What is valuable in the Traveller universe? I use Iridium and
Lanthanum by now, and I know of some coyns consising of Gold, Platinum or
Uranium. The idea is to get six 'wands of power', each being a bar of an
other metal. What could be the meaning of each metal? 
(e.g. Lanthanum for Jumpdrives - motion trough space,
      Uranium for nuclear power - energy,
      etc ...)

Perhaps this will get you some ideas, too.

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:50:07 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Armed merchants

David P. Summers writes:

>Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:07:08 +0200 (METDST), Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
>>I don't think anyone (except possibly you) will argue that a ship that
>>visits a starport to deliver a cargo or some passengers won't leave
>>some kind of a trail that can be followed up on.
> 
>True, since even I don't argue that.  The question was wether the
>paper trail is a "broad" one (and how accurate it is).

Oh, was that the question? Let me try answering it then: Broad enough to be
easily followed by anyone willing to spend a few man-years on it. That seems
to be broad enough for the purpose of making it hazardous to alternate
between tranding and pirating. Which was the question as far as I was
concerned.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 08:53:45 -0500
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: Re: Zuchai Crystals as Heat Sinks

Willian Hostman posted:
>
> Also, how are you converting the heat into energy you can store?

How about high-efficiency thermionic diodes? With 11,000 worlds
for materials research and 1000 years to do that research, the
Imperium should have a design much more efficient and effective
than anything we have today (IMHO).

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:30:17 -0500
From: "Pat Connaughton" <pconnaught@fiastl.net>
Subject: Re: Nobles of the Spinward Marches

I've been very interested in this fashion that other GM's
have used to generate nobility for their campaigns.

Does anyone have a system or formula for generating
social rank for the Zho's?

I've got a couple of twists coming up in my current
campaign and it would be helpfull

Thanks

Pat Connaughton
pconnaught@fiastl.net
"It's the only game in town"
ICQ Member # 2535086

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 09:12:56 -0400
From: warmind@juno.com (james a clem)
Subject: Re: Off topic...

SPEEWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now thats funny!!


Jim A. Clem, B.S.E.
CEO and Founder, Diasporan Industries, Inc.
www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081/
Traveller Geek Code tc+ tm !tn tt t4+ ru+() ge++ !3i jt au (+) st ls(+)
pi+ he++ merc++ dt+++
GM:  The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM


On Tue, 23 Jun 1998 11:37:11 -0700 Bruce Johnson
<johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> writes:
>but still RPG fodder.
>
>go here:
>
>http://onastick.net/sitz/images/
>
>and spew liquids on your computer. at least I did.
>
>-- 
>Bruce Johnson
>University of Arizona
>College of Pharmacy
>Information Technology Group
>

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: 24 Jun 1998 11:42 EDT
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Local defense budget (was: Pirates and merchants)

Some points:

1. I think Hans hit the nail on the head when he mentioned tying
   system defense to interstellar commerce.  This idea seems
   reasonable to me, since the Imperium may well protect systems
   inasmuch as they are commercially important... which usually
   includes politically important worlds, by the way, but not
   always I suppose.

2. In order to make sense of Imperial protection you may want to use 
   some Imperial worlds to test your hypotheses... or else the 
   arguments seem kind of hollow.  In any case, using world stats to 
   deduce rules from, or induce rules into, helps harmonize your system 
   with actual Traveller data.

3. The resulting rules of thumb will help you assess the possibility
   of piracy.  That's why I've been working on my trade rules.  I
   want to see what worlds will have pirates, if any.  Just thinking
   it will or won't work isn't enough for me; I need to convince
   myself and my group that a reasonable system exists which can
   allow piracy, and then go by that system.

4. One reason I'm not basing budget on the number of traders is that
   I'm not sure how to calculate the value and number of traders 
   working a route.  Assume the average ship size is X, multiply it
   times MCr Y and number of ships Z... you see, I need passenger and 
   cargo numbers anyhow, just to find out what kinds and how many 
   ships are trafficking.

IMTU INTERSTELAR TRADE

One week's interstellar trade on any world, again IMTU, depends on

	starport class
	population
	TL
	gas giant, naval base, xboat route presences

and also, for each neighbor,

	the same values noted above AND
	the distance from said neighbor 


IMTU SYSTEM DEFENSE

IMTU, the budget for local defense is, for now, equal to one week's
interstellar trade.

For example, IMTU Rhylanor-Porozlo has a weekly traffic of 200,000
people, and perhaps 800,000 tons of cargo.  Assuming Cr6000 per passenger 
and Cr1000 per ton of cargo, the weekly gross revenue is

	Cr 2,000,000,000

2 billion credits per year for local defense at each world.
Taking Jae Tellona into account may raise those numbers a bit more.

For another example, Treece has a weekly traffic of 20 people and
perhaps 80 tons of cargo, yielding

	Cr 200,000

...which is therefore the defense budget for Treece.

Now, do those numbers seem reasonable?

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Jun 98 11:33:04 -0500
From: eris@pen.net
Subject: Re: Helping out pirates

On 06/24/98 at 05:47 PM,  "Anson Betts"
<Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz> said:


>>(if anyone
>>builds a decent missile without using t-playtes or Heplar, I have the
>>civilian det-laser warhead ... guaranteed immune to nuclear damper fields).

>I'm intrigued, how does it work?

I'm guessing that it doesn't use a nuclear device to pump the lasers.
Right?

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:06:19 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Helping out pirates 

> On 06/24/98 at 05:47 PM,  "Anson Betts"
> <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz> said:
> 
> 
> >>(if anyone
> >>builds a decent missile without using t-playtes or Heplar, I have the
> >>civilian det-laser warhead ... guaranteed immune to nuclear damper fields).
> 
> >I'm intrigued, how does it work?
> 
> I'm guessing that it doesn't use a nuclear device to pump the lasers.
> Right?
> 

If you don't use a nuke to pump the laserheads, what *DO* you use???

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 10:23:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Local defense budget (was: Pirates and merchants)

Robert Eaglestone writes:
> 
> 1. I think Hans hit the nail on the head when he mentioned tying
>    system defense to interstellar commerce.  This idea seems
>    reasonable to me, since the Imperium may well protect systems
>    inasmuch as they are commercially important... which usually
>    includes politically important worlds, by the way, but not
>    always I suppose.
Protection will be dependent on political importance, but this is typically
equal to commercial importance.  However, worlds can acquire sudden political
importance for fairly random reasons, at which point they will probably
suddenly acquire surprising levels of protection.
> 
> 4. One reason I'm not basing budget on the number of traders is that
>    I'm not sure how to calculate the value and number of traders 
>    working a route.  Assume the average ship size is X, multiply it
>    times MCr Y and number of ships Z... you see, I need passenger and 
>    cargo numbers anyhow, just to find out what kinds and how many 
>    ships are trafficking.
As a rule, the value of ships along a particular route should be 200-500 times
the cost of transit along that route, since the cost of transit is a function
of the cost of ships.  Of course, the cost of transit really shouldn't be flat
in any case.
> 
> IMTU INTERSTELAR TRADE
> 
> One week's interstellar trade on any world, again IMTU, depends on
> 
>      starport class
A better starport allows using unstreamlined bulk carriers, which reduces the
cost of transit (and thus reduces the cost of interstellar goods)
>      population
Yes, but not in a linear way.  Larger worlds probably produce a larger portion
of their needs internally.
>      TL
Also TL as compared to neighbors.
>      gas giant, naval base, xboat route presences
Change 'gas giant' to 'ease of refueling'.
> 
> and also, for each neighbor,
> 
>      the same values noted above AND
>      the distance from said neighbor 
Add 'materials neighbor has that I want, and vice versa'.  A higher-TL world
_always_ has things a lower-TL neighbor wants; the reverse may or may not be
true.
> 
> 
> IMTU SYSTEM DEFENSE
> 
> IMTU, the budget for local defense is, for now, equal to one week's
> interstellar trade.
Assuming that's yearly budget, this is reasonable, though some worlds will for
one reason or another have considerably larger fleets.
> 
> For example, IMTU Rhylanor-Porozlo has a weekly traffic of 200,000
> people, and perhaps 800,000 tons of cargo.  Assuming Cr6000 per passenger 
> and Cr1000 per ton of cargo, the weekly gross revenue is
> 
>      Cr 2,000,000,000
The number of people is probably high -- transit is expensive and slow, and
typically unnecessary.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:29:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael and MJ Houghton <herveus@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Local defense budget (was: Pirates and merchants)

Howdy!

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Robert Eaglestone writes:
> > 
[discussion of rationales snipped]
> > 
> > IMTU INTERSTELAR TRADE
> > 
> > One week's interstellar trade on any world, again IMTU, depends on
> > 
> >      starport class
> A better starport allows using unstreamlined bulk carriers, which reduces the
> cost of transit (and thus reduces the cost of interstellar goods)
> >      population
> Yes, but not in a linear way.  Larger worlds probably produce a larger portion
> of their needs internally.
> >      TL
> Also TL as compared to neighbors.
> >      gas giant, naval base, xboat route presences
> Change 'gas giant' to 'ease of refueling'.
> > 
> > and also, for each neighbor,
> > 
> >      the same values noted above AND
> >      the distance from said neighbor 
> Add 'materials neighbor has that I want, and vice versa'.  A higher-TL world
> _always_ has things a lower-TL neighbor wants; the reverse may or may not be
> true.
> > 
> > 
> > IMTU SYSTEM DEFENSE
> > 
> > IMTU, the budget for local defense is, for now, equal to one week's
> > interstellar trade.
> Assuming that's yearly budget, this is reasonable, though some worlds will for
> one reason or another have considerably larger fleets.
> > 
> > For example, IMTU Rhylanor-Porozlo has a weekly traffic of 200,000
> > people, and perhaps 800,000 tons of cargo.  Assuming Cr6000 per passenger 
> > and Cr1000 per ton of cargo, the weekly gross revenue is
> > 
> >      Cr 2,000,000,000
> The number of people is probably high -- transit is expensive and slow, and
> typically unnecessary.
> 
I, too, feel that the number is too high. My sense is that one should look
at Earth sea transport for ideas rather than to air transport. I think it was
Hans who worked from the concept that a High Passage cost a year's pay, 
if one considers the average per capita income to be Cr10,000. This would tend
to limit the numbers considerably. Air travel is (relatively) too inexpensive
to use as a model for numbers.

Idly, I wonder how many people take cruises each year? That might be an interesting
statistic.

I see the proposed number of passengers and wonder what would generate that
much traffic. 

In playing around a bit with Rob's formula, I note that it computes traffic
as an exponential function. I think it ought to tail off toward the upper end,
but I am not sure how to express it mathematically. I am reminded of the
curve that describes the population of a microbial colony over time. Initially,
it is slow growing, but eventually skyrockets until it starts running out of
room and then levels off. I want to come up with something I can use to 
generate average traffic levels to provide local color as much as anything
else.

enough rambling for now...

yours,
Michael
- -- 
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@access.digex.net  | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
                          | http://www.access.digex.net/~herveus/

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #605
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Thursday, June 25 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 606



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Searching for Jim Ujcik - TravLang program 
people travelling.
Re: people travelling.
Re: Armed merchants
Re: Imperial tax practices
Re: Hello, and a question
Campaign Cartographer
Re: Survey Responses and more Keith...
Re: Campaign Cartographer
Re: Local defense budget (was: Pirates and merchants)
Re: Local defense budget (was: Pirates and merchants)
Re Computers and RW Exports
Piracy and the late 3I
Re: Survey Responses and more Keith...
Re: people travelling.
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #605
Ubiquitous Scouts (was: Piracy in the 3I)
re: people travelling
Languages
Re: Survey Responses and more Keith...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:23:00 -0400
From: "Scott Spieker" <scspieker@ncweb.com>
Subject: Searching for Jim Ujcik - TravLang program 

Hi,
	I'm looking for Jim Ujcik.  He supposedly lurks on this list, and I am
hoping to get in contact with him regarding his traveller language program.
 If anyone has an up to date e-mail address, please forward it to me.

Many thanks in advance,
Scott Spieker
scspieker@ncweb.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 08:36:09 +1200
From: Steve Rennell <wulf@sea.southern.co.nz>
Subject: people travelling.

Robert Eaglestone writes:
> > For example, IMTU Rhylanor-Porozlo has a weekly traffic of 200,000
> > people, and perhaps 800,000 tons of cargo.  Assuming Cr6000 per passenger 
> > and Cr1000 per ton of cargo, the weekly gross revenue is

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com> replied:
> The number of people is probably high -- transit is expensive and slow, and
> typically unnecessary.

Consider that Rylanor has 8 billion, and Porozlo has 20 
billion. 
Assume that on average most people make one return trip in their 
lifetime, also assume that the average lifespan is 80 
years, and that the travel will be evenly spread over that 
time. Assume that all the passengers will be going between 
those two worlds (Jae-Tellona is a bit of a dead end).
28 billion return trips over 80 years is 350 million per 
year, or 129,000 per week. 258000 if you count both 
directions.

I think I might be being a little out in my assumptions, 
but I don't think by an order of magnitude. If you still 
think that Robert's numbers are way too high, please 
address which of my assumptions you consider to be 
drastically unreasonable, and I'm prepared to discuss it.

Regards

Steve

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:10:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: people travelling.

Steve Renell writes:
> Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com> replied:
> > The number of people is probably high -- transit is expensive and slow,
> > and typically unnecessary.
> 
> Consider that Rylanor has 8 billion, and Porozlo has 20 billion. 
> Assume that on average most people make one return trip in their 
> lifetime <zapp>
Why assume that?  I wouldn't.  Going from Rylanor to Porozlo is equivalent to
travelling from the US to Europe in the 19th century -- it takes more than a
week each way, and it's expensive.  At times people will do it -- even large
numbers of people will do it -- but most likely not over 10% of the population
_ever_ makes the trip, and very few people make it more than once.
> 
> I think I might be being a little out in my assumptions, 
> but I don't think by an order of magnitude.
About an order of magnitude seems right.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:58:08 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Armed merchants

Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:50:07 +0200 (METDST),  Hans Rancke-Madsen
<rancke@diku.dk>
>Subject: Re: Armed merchants
>>True, since even I don't argue that.  The question was wether the
>>paper trail is a "broad" one (and how accurate it is).

>Oh, was that the question? Let me try answering it then: Broad enough to be
>easily followed by anyone willing to spend a few man-years on it. That seems
>to be broad enough for the purpose of making it hazardous to alternate
>between tranding and pirating. Which was the question as far as I was
>concerned.

Well, I don't see it as being a matter of man-years.  If the
ship did a good job of not leaving enough information to follow,
then it won't matter how much time they spend.  If it didn't,
and that ship is selected to be checked, then I would say
it would take a man-week or so (and a month or two of real
time).

If it does take a few man years, it won't be a problem.  If this
is a way of detecting who is a pirate, then you have to go
through every single ship's papers to be sure of catching
the pirates.  At a few man-years on each, that will add
up fast.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:40:50 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Imperial tax practices

At 07:54 PM 23/06/98 -0700, Steven Hudson wrote:
>  That brings up the question of how applicable the RSB taxation description
>(p. 7) is to the earlier 3I. Admittedly it doesn't say that any of those tax
>bases are innovations, and further I'll assume that the author did check with
>other GDW staff for ideas. I guess as a CT person I'd have to ask whether TNE
>players felt that TNE material (and the RSB in particular) was accurate
enough
>to be applied to the preceding game settings.
>
>  Did TNE entail changes in freight and passage charges?

It changed the price of a middle passage in the wilds to Cr5000, with
doubling up of accomodation, but that was about it. In fact the cargo rules
are straight out of MT, blast it (I prefer the CT rules for their colour).

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:43:53 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Hello, and a question

At 06:56 PM 24/06/98 +1200, Steve Rennell wrote:

>Consider the Maori in New Zealand in the 1840's -- 
>they had almost no industry, but they bought muskets off 
>the europeans and proceeded to have a series of bloody 
>high-tech (by the lights of the day) wars.

They also upgraded their agricultural and shipbuilding TL very quickly, to
the great irritation of the English (who planned on the Maori being a
market, not a producer of grain).

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:44:21 EDT
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Campaign Cartographer

	Thanks to Dominic Reynolds, Profantasy has graciously allowed a Demo version
of Campaign Cartographer to be allowed on the Traveller CD-ROM (public
version) on a limited basis.

	There is one set of files already on the disk that uses that program if I
recall correctly. And from what I understand the Demo will allow you to view
and print files.

	I'd be interested in seeing if anybody else has any they'd care to donate to
the disk.


Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:49:27 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Survey Responses and more Keith...

In a message dated 6/23/98 0:32:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
timmon@primenet.com writes:

<< I've just taken "Letter of Marque" to the printer...should have it back and
 in the mail in one week. While it's been fun doing the limited TML paper
 edition, I think a cd-rom would certainly be one valid way to go for any
 future editions of LOM. 
  >>

I am assuming this means it will be on it's way soon, as opposed to already
out there.  I am having a problem w/ a broken lock on my snail-mailbox, and I
am not sure if my mail is being held at the post office or is going back.  If
by chance you do get it back marked "undeliverable"  I would be extremely
greatful if you could re-mail it to the following address:

Edward M. Jenkins
C/O St. Louis Manor Apts.
2000 S Paradise Rd.
Las Vegas, NV 89104

I hope if it hasn't been sent yet, that my box will have been fixed before it
arrives.  Thanks again very much!!

Ed

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:09:59 -0700
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Re: Campaign Cartographer

> I'd be interested in seeing if anybody else has any they'd care to donate
to
>the disk.




If you do not already have sector data, feel free to grab the spreadsheets
and/or database from my site.

E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller
IMTU tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls
The early bird gets the worm, BUT
   the second mouse gets the cheese!

------------------------------

Date: 24 Jun 1998 18:23 EDT
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Re: Local defense budget (was: Pirates and merchants)

Rhylanor-Porozlo Passenger Traffic: 200,000 people per week!

Actually, I thought the numbers were high also.  They aren't
as large as they used to be, too!  However, for these systems 
we see (M1100):

Rhylanor      2716 A434934-F  A Hi Cp              810 Im M2 VI
Porozlo       2715 A867A74-B    Hi                 201 Im M1 V M9 D

The sum population is 8,000,000,000 + 20,000,000,000...
28 billion people.

200,000 per week x 50 weeks per year / 28 billion people =
10,000,000 passengers per year / 28,000,000,000 people   =

On one hand, we have 1 passenger per 2800 people per year.

On the other hand, the entire population of both systems will take 
one trip every 2800 years.

But on the gripping hand, that means only 35 of those 2800 people
will take one trip in those 2800 folks' lifetimes.  And I'm
willing to bet that many businessmen take multiple trips, hacking 
the actual number down further.

It looks like the numbers are really ok after all.

...and if you want to know, the exponent for the formula is 
currently 0.36.

Rob
IMTU tc+ t4+ ge-() 3i(+) jt a ls+ va- so- zh vi da+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 23:03:47 -0400
From: Michael Houghton <herveus@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Local defense budget (was: Pirates and merchants)

Howdy!

Rob wrote:
>Rhylanor-Porozlo Passenger Traffic: 200,000 people per week!
>
>Actually, I thought the numbers were high also.  They aren't
>as large as they used to be, too!  However, for these systems
>we see (M1100):
>
>Rhylanor      2716 A434934-F  A Hi Cp              810 Im M2 VI
>Porozlo       2715 A867A74-B    Hi                 201 Im M1 V M9 D
>
>The sum population is 8,000,000,000 + 20,000,000,000...
>28 billion people.
>
>200,000 per week x 50 weeks per year / 28 billion people =
>10,000,000 passengers per year / 28,000,000,000 people   =
>
>On one hand, we have 1 passenger per 2800 people per year.
>
>On the other hand, the entire population of both systems will take
>one trip every 2800 years.
>
>But on the gripping hand, that means only 35 of those 2800 people
>will take one trip in those 2800 folks' lifetimes.  And I'm
>willing to bet that many businessmen take multiple trips, hacking
>the actual number down further.
>
>It looks like the numbers are really ok after all.
>
>...and if you want to know, the exponent for the formula is
>currently 0.36.

OK...when I played around with the exponent, I found it was quite
sensitive to small variations... I'm willing to accept these
numbers now...

thanks
Michael

- ------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@access.digex.net  | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
                          | http://www.access.digex.net/~herveus/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 15:37:55 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re Computers and RW Exports

>On 06/22/98 at 02:59 PM,  Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
>said:
>
>>I wanna see 'em _try_ to do export restrictions on PC's.
>
>You mean the government has lifted export restrictions on PC's?
>
>Several years ago I worked for Radio Shack, and we weren't allowed to
>sell Model 16's to a customer in Costa Rica. Now, if you remember the
>Model 16 you know it wasn't a super computer much less a
>super-computer. ;->
>
>Eris
>- --

It is now legit to sell 386's to the Former Soviet Union... But I know a
few guys on probation for having sold 486's back when the pentium was still
known as the "Upcoming 10586". Also, I know a smuggler who Smuggles SKS and
AK-47 rifles from russia. He ususally takes a 486 (bought cheap and used)
and 3-4 pairs of Levi's 501's. Usually gets 2-3 cases of rifles. I can't
verify his trade out, but I can verify having seen some product: he had a
case of ak-47's in the back of his car, all still in the cosmoline, with
original manuals (in russian)... not much to look at, either (the manuals).
He was asking a mere $250 US...

He trades in international waters, during the winter, on a snow machine
with towed trailer. (Yes, they DO make trailers for snowmachines). During
the depths of winter, you can cross from Alaska to Eastern Siberia/
Kamchatka via the icepack, if far enoguh north.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 22:58:59 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Piracy and the late 3I

All the below is IMHO:

Piracy, at least in terms of a career of criminal spacer behaviour, and not
limited to JUST siezing ships and cargos, exists. It is possible to have a
career of criminal space employment, including (but not limited to)
Piratry, Barratry, Smuggling, Blockade enforcement, "Protection Rackets"
involving "Hired Customs Agent" and similar scams, interspersed with more
leagal activities including escort-for-hire and bloackade running, as well
as support for mercenaries. Basically, I see the distinction between pirate
and merchant as one of willingness and frequency of use of violence.

I agree with Hans' points about IMPERIAL NAVY protection being based upon
trade volume.

HOWEVER, I think we've all overlooked one segment of the Imperial Prescence
which is nearly omni-present, and would make piracy less likely... the IISS!

Based upon The Traveller Adventure, Bk 6:Scouts, and several other sources,
I believe that nearly every system will have some scout prescence, even if
only a 3 or 4 being office, for interfacing with the local (planetary)
postal &/or e-mail service. Any system on an X-boat route has an X-boat
tender (or more). Systems not on the routes will have at least 1, ususally
two, scout couriers to carry x-mail to/from the system. So, we have a wide
network of scout craft around. Since it can be assumed that scouts will
lovingly maintain their craft (if only out of boredom), expected (and thus
amortized) lifespan will be somewhere around 80-100 years, after which the
ship will often be surplused or "reserved" or assigned to a Detatched Scout.

Since this puts scouts almost everywhere, scouts will encounter and REPORT
piracy more than the Navy. If the pirate is quick, efficient, and takes
cargo &/or valuables (IMTU, theft is not an imperial crime, but murder,
treason, hijack, and mutiny are, as is treason) but avoids taking lives,
and lets the victim go, they scout may "avoid the hassle", and ignore it. A
violent or ruthless pirate WILL get reported. If the scout craft feels
brave, or is sufficiently large/armed, may even pursue.

Also, scouts, based upon every reference I have read about them in cannon,
ARE UBIQUITOUS. EVERY imperial will recognize the scout insignia, much like
most everyone recognizes the local Postal Uniform.

Also, I figure that, based upon the costs of X-Boat ops, the scouts just
barely clear on Commo Branch ops costs... support that with a few percent
of the anti-piracy funds, and the ubiquity of the X-boat/Courier net makes
some sense besides governance.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 01:55:52 -0700
From: Sanders <timmon@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Survey Responses and more Keith...

Um...I get them back from the printer on the 29th, and they will be in the
mail on the 30th. I already have your mailing envelope addressed - do you
want me to change it to the alternate address instead? Let me know before
friday if you could, because I will be extremely busy this weekend.

Thanks,
Paul

At 07:49 PM 6/24/98 EDT, you wrote:
>In a message dated 6/23/98 0:32:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
>timmon@primenet.com writes:
>
><< I've just taken "Letter of Marque" to the printer...should have it back
and
> in the mail in one week. While it's been fun doing the limited TML paper
> edition, I think a cd-rom would certainly be one valid way to go for any
> future editions of LOM. 
>  >>
>
>I am assuming this means it will be on it's way soon, as opposed to already
>out there.  I am having a problem w/ a broken lock on my snail-mailbox, and I
>am not sure if my mail is being held at the post office or is going back.  If
>by chance you do get it back marked "undeliverable"  I would be extremely
>greatful if you could re-mail it to the following address:
>
>Edward M. Jenkins
>C/O St. Louis Manor Apts.
>2000 S Paradise Rd.
>Las Vegas, NV 89104
>
>I hope if it hasn't been sent yet, that my box will have been fixed before it
>arrives.  Thanks again very much!!
>
>Ed
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 21:46:03 +1200
From: Steve Rennell <wulf@sea.southern.co.nz>
Subject: Re: people travelling.

I had written:
> > Assume that on average most people make one return trip in their 
> > lifetime 

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com> replied:
> Why assume that?  I wouldn't.  Going from Rylanor to
> Porozlo is equivalent to travelling from the US to Europe
> in the 19th century -- it takes more than a week each
> way, and it's expensive.  At times people will do it --
> even large numbers of people will do it -- but most
> likely not over 10% of the population _ever_ makes the
> trip, and very few people make it more than once.


I agree that it's expensive, and IMTU I'd probably set the
average yearly salary higher than 10k (perhaps double) or 
make ships a _lot_ cheaper.

I'm not convinced that the 19thC is necessarily the best
comparison. Yes, the paradigm of the long travel times,
but no faster communication is a good one, but I think
that the wealth distribution was a lot more skewed than it
is now, and I'd like to think that the wealth distribution
in the average Traveller system isn't as bad as that. 

In the 19thC England a lot of people lived on subsistance, but 
there were an upper class of people that were comparitively 
extremely wealthy. Yes, maybe only 10% could expect to travel, but I 
would have thought that 5% would have been able to afford 
regular travel if they wanted to.

I guess my image fits more with the "Titanic" paradigm. The 
rich travel in stunning comfort, and the poor just travel 
as best they can, but the poor still travel.

That said, I'd be comfortable downsizing the guess to 
50% of the population can expect to travel in their 
lifetime, and I'm prepared to be convinced lower.

Steve

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 08:00:29
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #605

>Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:06:19 -0400
>From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
>Subject: Re: Helping out pirates 
>
>> >I'm intrigued, how does it work?
>> 
>> I'm guessing that it doesn't use a nuclear device to pump the lasers.
>> Right?
>> 
>
>If you don't use a nuke to pump the laserheads, what *DO* you use???
>
>Keven

It's TL12.

Assume 100 MJ of output is required. It isnt exactly Famile Spofulam
standard (Ditzie is working on the meson gun missile warhead even as we
write), but it's higher-rated than some main lasers on military designs
from some design bureaus.

Assume range required is 5 000km - it's a civilian weapon.

One meter diameter, turns into roughly 0.09 cubic meters of laser. Call it
0.1 m3. Lasers range is 25 000 km. Plenty. Cost is KCr 10.

5 000km beam pointer for 0.948 m3, and KCr 95 or so.

We need 500 megajoules worth of energy, so we pack in 500 kilos of chemical
laser cartridge, at a cost of KCr 2.5

Now we need the combustor/evacuator. We want a RoF of, say, one shot per
ummm. Well, it's a one shot weapon, isnt it ... assume on shot per 20 minutes.

Thats 1 shot per 1200 seconds, so we need a combustor/evacuator of ummm
call it 25 liters. My guess is the missile interior is going to be a mess
of melted plastic after that half-ton chemical cartrige goes. Then again,
who cares ?

OK. It's one shot, so no autoloader will be required.

Add a 50 kkm laser communicator, for 0.02 m3 and KCr 36.

Total volume is therefore about 1.7 cubic meters, with over half of that
being the beam pointer.

Cost is about KCr 154, and dominated by the beam pointer. You could
probably get away with building the laser bits on a TL12 world, and then
installing a TL9 beam pointer. It would be about a half-cubic meter bigger,
but may have a much lower sticker cost, depending on the exchange rate.

If you want terminal self-guidance, I'd put in a TL12 sensitivity 11.5
vehicle passive sensor, costing KCr 100. It shouldnt be neccessary against
civilian targets, but if you are goanna play with high gee targets, you
might need it. On the other hand, a high gee target may well have mil
blacking and so on that would spoof such a cheap and tacky sensor.

OK. One 2m3 civilian det laser. Cost is about KCr 154, potentially less if
built with a TL9 beam pointer, more if you want terminal self-guidance.
Only two rules have been bent - there is no minimum RoF for Chemical
Cartridge Lasers, and I have ignored the requirement for an autoloader on
the grounds it's a one-shot weapon.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 08:54:16 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Ubiquitous Scouts (was: Piracy in the 3I)

Just a note for William Hostman's post:

While type S Scout *Ships* are ubiquitous, that doesn't necessarily mean
that scouts are running them. The Seeker is just one example of a Scout
Ship that's passed from IISS hands to the private sector - this indicates
that there are a lot more type S's out there than those in the IISS and those
on Detached Duty.

Auctioned off Scout/Couriers would probably show up all over the place...
the flagship of a dirtscrabble world's interstellar navy, research ship for
a (very) small corporation, yacht for a wannabee nobleman, travelling
home office for an eccentric entrepeneur - not to mention the common
"Seeker" mining ship variation.

One happy advantage of the type S Scout Ship is it's very ubiquitousness.
No one will notice anything odd about one of these showing up at any port
in the Imperium, and will probably barely remember it showing up at all.

"Traffic today? Hmm, there was the _Ad Astra_ with all those rich folk,
_Children of the Marches_ made a port visit with her escort flotilla, a
bunch of long haul cargo ships passed through, then there were a half
dozen Free Traders or so...Scout ships? Heck, we get a dozen of those
an hour sometimes...you want me to go through all those traffic records
to hunt down one measely scout ship? Hey, maybe after my kafic break..."

Walt Smith
System Manager
Hartwick College
Oneonta, NY
smithw@hartwick.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:03:38 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: people travelling

Steve Rennell wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I guess my image fits more with the "Titanic" paradigm. The 
rich travel in stunning comfort, and the poor just travel 
as best they can, but the poor still travel.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Steerage passengers in the 19th/early 20th century spent almost all
the money they had, often spent a lot of money their friends and relations
had, and never intended to come back. I think they almost fit the 
"desperate refugee" model better than the "average citizen taking his
vacation trip of a lifetime".

What situation would you have to be in to spend CR1000 on a low berth
instead of CR8000 on a middle passage, considering the risks of low
passage travel? Considering how many low passengers you can find on
any planet of the Imperium, the original rules would indicate a lot of
desperate people, with almost no money, willing to gamble their lives
on a fresh start on a new planet - and this new planet has a similar
population of malcontents. No wonder the Imperium has so many problems
with crime and internal peacekeeping.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 08:40:17 -0500
From: "Pearson Publishing" <jdpearson@wr.net>
Subject: Languages

There's been some excellent talk about software for developing words in Vilani, 
Zhodani, and Aslan lately.  IIRC, there are some Traveller websites dedicated to 
these languages as well.  Does anyone recall their URLs?

Also, how can I contact the TravLang mailing list?

Thanks.


 -- James Pearson
"The purpose of a referee is to present obstacles 
for players to overcome as they go about seeking 
their goals, not to constantly make trouble for them.
This is a very subtle distinction ..."

The Traveller Book, p. 12

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/4089

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 12:44:10 -0500
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@fastlane.net>
Subject: Re: Survey Responses and more Keith...

At 12:35 AM 6/23/1998 -0700, you wrote:
>Bryan wrote thusly:
>>For instance, there  was at least one request to see more of the 
>>Keith Brothers material. I have talked to them about this some months >ago
>now, and while they are not up to speed on the latest edition of >the
>rules, there would be the possibility of having them do some new >stuff,
>though posibly for the old rules, if the price was right >(William was
>definitely willing to do some Traveller artwork again, >Keith was a little
>iffier), what that price might be would >understandably be needed to be
>discussed).

Please, I would love to see more of their work especially in either CT, or
MT format.

>With that in mind, I'd like to announce that I've just concluded a deal
>with Andrew Keith to purchase the following previously unpublished
>manuscripts - and I am certainly open to the cd route of release if Marc is
>agreeable. My only desire is that they be released in their 'original'
>Classic Traveller form (i.e. as written). If someone wanted to produce a
>companion article for the cd detailing the ways and means of converting
>them to other versions of Traveller, that would be fine course.
>
>The manuscripts are:
>
>"Rogues in Space I: Letter of Marque" 
>     We all know about this one...

Can't wait to see it.

>"Rogues in Space II: 'Scams & Cons" (working title only)
>       Interstellar Mafia anyone? Another in the boxed module series.

Bring it on.

>"Starport - Planetfall" 
>       The *really* Complete Starport upon which the _Far & Away_ 
>       articles borrowed a miniscule portion of material from. 
>	Actually - "Startown" was supposed to have been the 
>	companion-scenario followup book for this product. 

I was just re-reading the Far & Away article the other day.  I would love
to see an expanded version of that.

>"Artic Environment" 
>       Another in the hostile environment series - and Andrew has
>expressed an interest in writing a companion-scenario book for        	this
>as well.

The hostile environment series were some of the best books.  My favorite
was the "Undersea Environment" and "The Drenslaar Quest"(?).

>And...saving the best for last...(believe me - I was up most of last night
>reading it!)
>
>"Faldor - World of Adventure"
>	This was to have been another in the boxed module series. Like 	"Tarsus"
>it is a fully detailed world - in this case, a formerly     	'lost' Darrian
>colony which regressed to a lower tech level, and 	is presently rife with
>Darrian, Sword World, Zhodani, and of 	course Imperial agents all striving
>to sway the locals towards 	their own particular interests. Needless to
>say....the 	'primitives' prove more than a match for them all. ;)

I want it, and I want it now.

>L8r,
>Paul Sanders
>timmon@primenet.com
>
>P.S. If he's listening, I'd like to urge Roger Sanger to consider this
>route for the release of the 'lost' DGP gem - "The Black Duke". 
> 
Needless to say, I have always found the Kieth brothers Traveller (or even
2300 AD) material to be the best of what was produced for that game system.
 If there is any unreleased material out there, or if, they might actually
do new stuff, this would a great boost for Traveller.

Jimmy Simpson
	nimrodd@fastlane.net
"Cannot say.
 Saying, I would know.
 Do not know.
 So cannot say."
		-Zathras (Babylon 5)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #606
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Friday, June 26 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 607



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

MT Character Generator
Re : Languages
Re: Re : Languages
Re: Helping out pirates
Re: Zuchai Crystals as Heat Sinks
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #605
[T98#604] Government type?
Re: people travelling
Re: Languages
Re: [T98#604] Government type?
Re: [TWG] Re: V&V or M:0
Re: Survey Responses and more Keith...
Re: Piracy
Re: Imperial tax practices
Re: Piracy and the late 3I
[none]
Re: Zuchai Crystals as Heat Sinks
Re:  Imprisonment in the Imperium
Cheap civ chem detlaser missile
M:IW a Vilani escort/patrol ship

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 14:24:17 -0400
From: "Svenson, Gregory (FL51)" <gsvenson@space.honeywell.com>
Subject: MT Character Generator

I have just uploaded version 1.08 of MTCG to my web site:

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/5776/traveller.html

The changes were to add generation of a batch of minor races (Newts from
Trav. Digest #11, Llellewyloly from TML article by James Kundert,
Githiaskio from Phil Masters article on WWW, Luriani from Andrew
Mofatt-Vallance's TML article, Answerin & Cafadi from James
Maliszewski's articles on WWW, Hlanssai, Sword Worlders & Girug'kagh
from Loran Wiseman's articles on WWW).

Greg Svenson
gsvenson@space.honeywell.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 19:27:36 +0100
From: Rob Day <rob@glisten.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re : Languages

Hi,

The Home Page for the Travlang List (which has joining instructions) can
be found at :

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html

This page, as well as joining instructions for the TravLang list, shows
the progress that's been made so far towards creation of the Vilani
language.

Also available is my TravLang Support page at :

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/2555/

This page holds version 3.3 of the web based Vilani Language Generator
(don't go to the one pointed at by the main TLDL page, that's only
version 1). Also on a sub-page are three files which together make up a
download for a VB word/language generator, which also allows creation of
custom languages.
Finally, the page holds this years TravLang digests, and will soon
hopefully hold all the others from last year as well.

There are two web based generators for Vargr and Zhodani at:

http://www.glisten.demon.co.uk/zhodanilanggen.htm
http://www.glisten.demon.co.uk/vargrlanggen.htm 

Chris Olsen has also written a generator (in Delphi), this can be found
at :

http://www.novia.net/~pern/chris/Language.zip

Btw, Chris, do you mind if I put a link to your generator on my page? Or
even have a copy to download from there, as I've loads of space.

Finally, Lars Adler says that he's written a DOS-based generator, but I
don't have a URL available. Fancy making it available Lars? I'll provide
the web space for it if you like.

I think that's all, have I missed anything out?

Regards,

Rob.

>Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 08:40:17 -0500
>From: "Pearson Publishing" <jdpearson@wr.net>
>Subject: Languages
>
>There's been some excellent talk about software for developing words in Vilani, 
>Zhodani, and Aslan lately.  IIRC, there are some Traveller websites dedicated to 
>these languages as well.  Does anyone recall their URLs?
>
>Also, how can I contact the TravLang mailing list?
>
>Thanks.
>
>
> -- James Pearson
- -- 
Rob Day
rob@glisten.demon.co.uk

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 13:51:41 -0500
From: Chris Olson <Chris_Olson@itd.sterling.com>
Subject: Re: Re : Languages

Rob Day wrote:

<MUCH SNIPPAGE ENSUES>

> Chris Olsen has also written a generator (in Delphi), this can be found
> at :
>
> http://www.novia.net/~pern/chris/Language.zip
>
> Btw, Chris, do you mind if I put a link to your generator on my page? Or
> even have a copy to download from there, as I've loads of space.
>

<MORE SNIPPAGE TO THE BIN>

Go ahead and put it up on your site as well, it's my little gift to the traveller
community,
enjoy :-)

Chris Olson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 11:50:01 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Helping out pirates

In mail you write:

>>>(if anyone
>>>builds a decent missile without using t-playtes or Heplar, I have the
>>>civilian det-laser warhead ... guaranteed immune to nuclear damper fields).

On rec.arts.sf.science they've been discussing the old Safeguard
anti-missle defense system and especially the Sprint missile, which was
the "point defense" component.

Sprint boosted at 100g. And could *manuever* at a fair fraction of
that. 

It was derived from a test vehicle that boosted at *1000* g. And thus
reached orbital velocity in one *second*. 

I'm trying to track down more info, as using such missiles for the
final stage of a missile launched at a ship would make point defense
rather difficult. The main *dis*-advantage is that they can't maintain
that acceleration for more than a fraction of a turn. On the other
hand, that's all it may take to attack the target.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 11:23:20 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Zuchai Crystals as Heat Sinks

In mail you write:

> Willian Hostman posted:
>>
>> Also, how are you converting the heat into energy you can store?
>
> How about high-efficiency thermionic diodes? With 11,000 worlds
> for materials research and 1000 years to do that research, the
> Imperium should have a design much more efficient and effective
> than anything we have today (IMHO).

It's not a matter of *efficiency*. A thermionic diode works off of heat
*differences*. Which means that you have to have a "cold end" for the
heat to flow to.

The problem is that in space, you only have two choices for the "cold
end". One is the interior of the ship, which means the ship is
steadfily getting hotter. The other is some sort of radiatyor aimed at
empty space. And you can't dump heat to it any faster than the heat
*radiates* away. Otherwise the temp goes up, and the efficiency drops
like a rock.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 12:02:37 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #605

In mail you write:

> It's TL12.
>
> Assume 100 MJ of output is required. It isnt exactly Famile Spofulam
> standard (Ditzie is working on the meson gun missile warhead even as we
> write), but it's higher-rated than some main lasers on military designs
> from some design bureaus.
>
> Assume range required is 5 000km - it's a civilian weapon.
>
> One meter diameter, turns into roughly 0.09 cubic meters of laser. Call it
> 0.1 m3. Lasers range is 25 000 km. Plenty. Cost is KCr 10.
>
> 5 000km beam pointer for 0.948 m3, and KCr 95 or so.
>
> We need 500 megajoules worth of energy, so we pack in 500 kilos of chemical
> laser cartridge, at a cost of KCr 2.5
>
> Now we need the combustor/evacuator. We want a RoF of, say, one shot per
> ummm. Well, it's a one shot weapon, isnt it ... assume on shot per 20 
> minutes.
>
> Thats 1 shot per 1200 seconds, so we need a combustor/evacuator of ummm
> call it 25 liters. My guess is the missile interior is going to be a mess
> of melted plastic after that half-ton chemical cartrige goes. Then again,
> who cares ?

Actually, if you use the right fuel/oxider combo, you can get a *rocket
engine* to lase. The beam will be at right angles to the gas flow. And
you'll actually get a decent thrust out of the exhaust, as the laser is
taking energy from the *combustion*, while the rocket is taking energy
from the *expansion* of the exhaust. 

So your one shot, if designed appropriately may be able to dodge at
high acceleration while firing. :-)

And frankly, I think that if one is going to do a chemical laser
warhead, one *should* design it this way. It'd cost more, but be a lot
more surviveable.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 20:24:25 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: [T98#604] Government type?

On Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:43:08 -0400, Bruce Johnson
<johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:

>Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
 
>> OK, I'm sitting here reading some favorite out-of-print SF, and
>> trying to figure out how to convert the society into Traveller
>> terms.  The governmental organization is as follows:
 
>> There is a single central government which is responsible for a
>> very limited set of functions -

>Well, it al depends on how that government derives it's power; after
>all, that's what governs a government type. As stated, _any_ traveller
>government type would qualify.

>Is the governemnt eelected, imposed, a dictatorship, a corporate state,
>a anarcho-syndicalist commune?

Not entirely clear from the books in question - the municipal
governments are definitely representative democracies (think
mayor/city manager, city council/board of aldermen, etc.); none
of the others are clear, but the central government has the
overwhelming support of the people, is not elected in any way,
and gets its personnel at all levels through drafting those who
are most qualified to fill the positions - and the person so
drafted willingly goes.


- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 13:50:49 -0700
From: scharlto@ifsna.com
Subject: Re: people travelling

Rather than the 19th Century or even early 20th Century example, I have
usually thought about space travel as being as common as travel between
Europe and America, or better yet America and Australia.

That is to say, the cost is high, but not unreachable even for the middle
classes.  It is costly enough to dissuade many people, however, and many
others are dissuaded based on the inconvenience.  A planet is a big place;
interplanetary tourism would be even harder to encourage than
intercontinental tourism.  But I think it would exist.

I would say 10 percent, maybe 20 percent of the population of a high-tech
(TL10+) world would do an interstellar trip at least one time in their
life.  Since space travel has been around quite a while, there would not be
much novelty factor involved, and as I mentioned before most non-wealthy
people would likely not travel interstellar for tourism, when they have a
whole world of their own available.

People living on an asteroid or in a dome city might want to travel to
another world for a vacation, but then again people raised in that kind of
environment might be a bit uncomfortable going to a world without a clearly
and visibly delimited life support system  (yeek!  where's the ROOF?!?)

Steve Charlton

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 14:19:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Cook <markc@peak.org>
Subject: Re: Languages

James Pearson <jdpearson@wr.net> writes:
> 
> There's been some excellent talk about software for developing words in
> Vilani, Zhodani, and Aslan lately.  IIRC, there are some Traveller
> websites dedicated to these languages as well.  Does anyone recall
> their URLs?

Well, while not exactly *dedicated* to these languages, there are fairly
good lexicons for Trokh (Aslan) Vuakedh (the language variant of the Varg'r
living in the Domain of Antares and the Julian Protectorate), and Oynprith
(Droyne) on the web-site of the "TML PBeM". The direct URL to the language
page is: http://www.ssgfx.com/traveller/language/.

> Also, how can I contact the TravLang mailing list?

I didn't know there was such a list.  I'd like to know that as well.

        - Mark C.
          Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy
          EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75
          Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR
          NRA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 mark f. cook * mark cook consulting *  shoestring graphics & printing
 2055 s.w. whiteside dr. * corvallis, or, 97333-1406 * markc@ssgfx.com
 Phone: 541-753-2732      Fax: 541-753-2738       http://www.ssgfx.com
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
       "Where am I... and what am I doing in this handbasket?"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 14:37:51 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: [T98#604] Government type?

Jeff Zeitlin wrote:

> Not entirely clear from the books in question - the municipal
> governments are definitely representative democracies (think
> mayor/city manager, city council/board of aldermen, etc.); none
> of the others are clear, but the central government has the
> overwhelming support of the people, is not elected in any way,
> and gets its personnel at all levels through drafting those who
> are most qualified to fill the positions - and the person so
> drafted willingly goes.

Hmmm....sounds like a popular dictatorship/oligarchy. 

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:12:37 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: [TWG] Re: V&V or M:0

"Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz> wrote:

>IMHO M:0 campaign is well worth its price tag, the background presented is
>well written and adds a lot to the overall Traveller storyline.

I agree. the extra chapters on Timeline and the Pacification Campaigns
massively improve the book. Shame they didn't correct the various charts
too. M0's use for me writing material has really increased since I obtained
the hardback.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 20:56:26 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Survey Responses and more Keith...

In a message dated 6/25/98 1:55:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
timmon@primenet.com writes:

<<  I already have your mailing envelope addressed - do you
 want me to change it to the alternate address instead? Let me know before
 friday if you could, because I will be extremely busy this weekend. >>

I think the mailbox problem is solved...new lock was put on today.  I
appreciate the offer though!

Ed

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:29:16
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Piracy

>From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
>Subject: Re: Armed merchants
>
>Well, I don't see it as being a matter of man-years.  If the
>ship did a good job of not leaving enough information to follow,
>then it won't matter how much time they spend.  If it didn't,
>and that ship is selected to be checked, then I would say
>it would take a man-week or so (and a month or two of real
>time).
>

Prisons are full of people whose carefully-constructed alibis were good
enough to get a not guilty verdict.

>If it does take a few man years, it won't be a problem.  If this
>is a way of detecting who is a pirate, then you have to go
>through every single ship's papers to be sure of catching
>the pirates.  At a few man-years on each, that will add
>up fast.

Not if clerks cost about KCr 15 per year apiece. Three man-years mean a 1%
hit rate on targetted investigations returns over 1000% once you sieze and
sell the ship.

Naturally enough, when you actually do bust someone, you can work backwards
to find who they dealt with ... a choice between death or 10 years
following co-operation is a good way to break open the rest of the gang.

>From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
>Subject: Piracy and the late 3I
>
>All the below is IMHO:
>
>HOWEVER, I think we've all overlooked one segment of the Imperial Prescence
>which is nearly omni-present, and would make piracy less likely... the IISS!

<good stuff deleted>

>Since this puts scouts almost everywhere, scouts will encounter and REPORT
>piracy more than the Navy. If the pirate is quick, efficient, and takes
>cargo &/or valuables (IMTU, theft is not an imperial crime, but murder,
>treason, hijack, and mutiny are, as is treason) but avoids taking lives,
>and lets the victim go, they scout may "avoid the hassle", and ignore it. A
>violent or ruthless pirate WILL get reported. If the scout craft feels
>brave, or is sufficiently large/armed, may even pursue.

This puts pirates in a nasty position. If they do fire at a target, then
there is a risk of accidentally causing casualities, and turning the crime
into big-P piracy. If a target does in fact return fire, then the pirate
must choose between fleeing and escalating things to big-P piracy - and
retaliation against a gunner or captain who does in fact return fire will
be limited by Imperial interest in murder in Imperial space.

>
>Also, scouts, based upon every reference I have read about them in cannon,
>ARE UBIQUITOUS. EVERY imperial will recognize the scout insignia, much like
>most everyone recognizes the local Postal Uniform.

Taking on an anti-piracy role will also help get the mercantile interests
of the Imperium on side, which will be important when the Navy and IISS are
battling for budget share ('Yeah, the Navy is essential, but what have
*they* done for you lately ?').

>
>Also, I figure that, based upon the costs of X-Boat ops, the scouts just
>barely clear on Commo Branch ops costs... support that with a few percent
>of the anti-piracy funds, and the ubiquity of the X-boat/Courier net makes
>some sense besides governance.

Add to this a few percent of Imperial intelligence funds. A quick look at
little black book 6 'Scouts' showed about 6 different IISS sub-branches
with roles including intelligence.

>
>William F. Hostman

>From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
>Subject: Ubiquitous Scouts (was: Piracy in the 3I)
>
>Just a note for William Hostman's post:
>
>While type S Scout *Ships* are ubiquitous, that doesn't necessarily mean
>that scouts are running them. The Seeker is just one example of a Scout
>Ship that's passed from IISS hands to the private sector - this indicates
>that there are a lot more type S's out there than those in the IISS and those
>on Detached Duty.
>

Starport officials wont neccessarily know who's on detatched duty, who is
on private business and who is part of one of the numerous IISS
intelligence sub-branches.

>Auctioned off Scout/Couriers would probably show up all over the place...
>the flagship of a dirtscrabble world's interstellar navy, research ship for
>a (very) small corporation, yacht for a wannabee nobleman, travelling
>home office for an eccentric entrepeneur - not to mention the common
>"Seeker" mining ship variation.

Completely agreed. A vanilla type S makes a great 'mail packet' or ship for
carrying small, valuable cargoes (4 displacement tons of PEMS units is
worth ummmm lots).

>
>One happy advantage of the type S Scout Ship is it's very ubiquitousness.
>No one will notice anything odd about one of these showing up at any port
>in the Imperium, and will probably barely remember it showing up at all.
>
>"Traffic today? Hmm, there was the _Ad Astra_ with all those rich folk,
>_Children of the Marches_ made a port visit with her escort flotilla, a
>bunch of long haul cargo ships passed through, then there were a half
>dozen Free Traders or so...Scout ships? Heck, we get a dozen of those
>an hour sometimes...you want me to go through all those traffic records
>to hunt down one measely scout ship? Hey, maybe after my kafic break..."
>

'We've heard this rumour that a pirate band is paying off starport records
staff to lose records. We werent intending on pulling a full audit here,
but it might become neccessary. All we want is a dump of the records. We'll
do the analysis'.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 20:07:32 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Imperial tax practices

>From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
>Subject: Re: Imperial tax practices
...
>>  That brings up the question of how applicable the RSB taxation description
>>(p. 7) is to the earlier 3I.
...
>It changed the price of a middle passage in the wilds to Cr5000, with
>doubling up of accomodation, but that was about it. In fact the cargo rules
>are straight out of MT, blast it (I prefer the CT rules for their colour).

  Presumably the fact that the ship still makes Cr 6000 profit on two weeks
use of a stateroom means that no major change occurred. If so, then the lack
of price changes indicates no great changes in tax structure. Also, the fact
that the game isn't meant to be only for underworked accountants could explain
why taxes are stated in RSB to be hidden within

  Thus, while refs can make up (that's what they're for, right?) extra profits
for PC's who smuggle stuff past customs (Imperial or otherwise) the taxes are
otherwise subsumed within the trade rules, except for starport fees.

  So is there any reason not to seriously consider RSB as a valid source for
info on the CT/MT 3I, besides the fact that it's a TNE book?

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 20:07:40 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Piracy and the late 3I

Hello,
>From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
>Subject: Piracy and the late 3I
...
>Piracy, at least in terms of a career of criminal spacer behaviour, and not
>limited to JUST siezing ships and cargos, exists. It is possible to have a
>career of criminal space employment, including (but not limited to)
>Piratry, Barratry, Smuggling, Blockade enforcement, "Protection Rackets"
>involving "Hired Customs Agent" and similar scams, interspersed with more
>leagal activities including escort-for-hire and bloackade running, as well
>as support for mercenaries. Basically, I see the distinction between pirate
>and merchant as one of willingness and frequency of use of violence.

  Sort of organized crime with ships? Sounds workable to me, although the
practicality of both piracy and jumping payments both depends on whether
the campaign background has a competent system of governance (with some
allowance for nearness of hostile or uncooperative jurisdictions). It might
be best (even if illusory) for a planetary organization to maintain any
pirate assets at arms length to avoid direct Imperial involvement.

  In any case such groups (current or wanna-be's) would be potential
customers for stolen ships (esp. as such may not last terribly long)
and could use them to provide services to "legit" merchants working
in black market goods by shuttling goods to said traders w/o them
having to make jumps that might create questionable indicators on their
"paper-trails" (i.e., flags for possible further research by cops).

>I agree with Hans' points about IMPERIAL NAVY protection being based upon
>trade volume.

  Wouldn't economic strength be the best indicator of colonial/dedicated
SD assets rather than IN presence? Presumably both the Imperium and the IN
have sufficient knowledge of their security needs and the art of strategy
to be flexible in achieving their objectives most efficiently (not to say
that security might or might not be number one - but at least the IN doesn't
have fellow services with which to bicker [just the battleship vs battlerider
debates :> ]).

        Yours truly,
                Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 02:00:05 -0400
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: [none]

subscribe traveller-digest ashock@gte.net
unsubscribe traveller ashock@gte.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 20:50:54 +1200
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Zuchai Crystals as Heat Sinks

>> Also, how are you converting the heat into energy you can store?
>
>How about high-efficiency thermionic diodes? With 11,000 worlds
>for materials research and 1000 years to do that research, the
>Imperium should have a design much more efficient and effective
>than anything we have today (IMHO).


Only if they can co-ordinate their research to any degree, and with
communications times being at least a week between systems up to six parsecs
apart, how are you going to tell your colleagues on the other side of the
Imperium of your results before they have already followed a similar path
and got similar results? If you find a major breakthrough then by the time
you've told everyone it's out of date.

Cheers,
 Anson

I want to die in my sleep like my grandfather,
not screaming and yelling like the passengers in his car.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 14:37:42 +0800
From: "Michael Bailey" <mickb@opera.iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re:  Imprisonment in the Imperium

The question reminds me of a paragraph in 'The Many Coloured Lan', where
Aiken Druk is confronted with a simple multiple choice question on his 18th
birthday:

Something like:

As a confirmed recidivist, you have been deemed dangerous to the stability
of the Galactic Millieu.  You may choose either:

A - Permanent incarceration in a Millieu prison facility.

B - Permanent implant of a docilization unit (now that was a cool bit of
tech).

C - Voluntary euthanasia


(of course Aiken answers with "neither, I choose Exile".


Great books....

Anyone ever come up with the specs for a docilator in Trav?


Later,

Mick

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 09:48:46 +0200
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Cheap civ chem detlaser missile

<Lots of tech stuff deleted>

>OK. One 2m3 civilian det laser. Cost is about KCr 154, potentially less if
>built with a TL9 beam pointer, more if you want terminal self-guidance.
>Only two rules have been bent - there is no minimum RoF for Chemical
>Cartridge Lasers, and I have ignored the requirement for an autoloader on
>the grounds it's a one-shot weapon.
>
>Ian Whitchurch

If such a missile could be built, Baron Charles Pancroft of Centry/Glisten
is eager to get the contract for the low tech stuff. When his father, how
shall I put it, passed away and he got the title (now how did that older
sister die?) he has been hard at work on modernizing Centry. There's a
contract prison where all Glisten systems can put their criminals for a
small fee and these prisoners are used as cheap labour in industry.
Currently they work in a plant that build short barrel shotguns with
bootholsters.

/Sir Charles Pancroft, Baron of Centry


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 22:51:42 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: M:IW a Vilani escort/patrol ship

Gadni 583309, Type 56m Escort (FF&S v2)
Designed by Andrew Moffatt-Vallance

Statistics
 Tons: 400 Td (SL Thick Disc Hypersonic)
 Crew: 15/19
 Cargo: 24 Td (0/1 Handling: 1 x 336 ton)
 Volume: 5600m3
 Passengers High/Med: 0/0
 Cost: 1632.077 MCr
 Mass (L/C): 6211t/5796t
 Passengers Low: 0
 Maintenance Points: 266
 Dimensions: 24.2m x 24.2m x 12.1m
 Troops/Science: 0/0
 Tech Level: 11
 Size: 8
 Frozen Watch: 0

Electronics
 Controls: Dynamic, Standard automation. 3 x FibComp (CM: 0.5 CP: 2.0).
           Bridge.
 Communications: 1 x Dir Radio (1,000AU, 0.2MW). 1 x Laser (1,000AU, 
0MW).
 Sensors: 1 x Sci PEMS (13.5 [16mkm] Sci, 0.02MW).
          1 x Sci AEMS (11.5 [0.5mkm] Sci, 5MW).
          1 x Sci LIDAR (15 [2mkm] Sci, 3.3MW).
 Survey/Science:
 ECM: 1 x LIDAR. Decoy Disp. (1 units ea.).
 Signatures: Vis:-0.5, IR:-0.5 (-0.5 at 749MW, -1 at 75MW), Act:0.5, Neu:-1,
             Grav:1

Weaponry
 2 x Missile Turret Laun 2/2 (Mag: 16 MFD: 500,000km)
       w/18 Cmd DL 1d6/2 [50] 6G/11 500,000km

Performance
 2 Jump (40 Td/pc fuel)
 4.1/4.4 Maneuver (Thruster: 644MW)
 1/1.1 Contra-grav (85MW)
 4588kph/4719kph Atmosphere (Cruise: 3441kph/3539kph)
 4 Power (Fusion: 750MW, 0.08yr)
 0 Battery
 80.6 Fuel (Scoop: 5 Purif: 16, 3MW)
 0/17/2/0/0 Accomodations
 84 Person/Weeks Life Support (Type: Standard, Normal Food [stored])
 2 G-Comp
 0 ESA
 1 Sandcasters (AV: 60 Cans: 24)
 0 Damper Turrets
 0 Damper Screen
 0 Meson Screen
 0 Force Field
 0 Gravtics
 10 [29] Armor, 16 Structure

Features
 4 x Decontamination Airlock
 1 x Docking Umbilical
 1 x Ship's locker (0.2 Td ea.)
 2 x Prisoner Capacity (0/0/2)
 1 x Ordinary Galley (Cap: 21)

Small Craft
 1 x Minimal Hanger (20 Td, 1 hatch)

Backups
 Drives:
 Screens:
 Communications: 2 x Dir Radio (1,000AU). 2 x Laser (1,000AU).
 Sensors: 1 x Sci LIDAR (15 [2mkm] Sci).
 Survey/Science:
 ECM:
 Power & Fuel:

Crew Details
 3 x Helm
 9 x Engineering
 1 x Maintainance
 2 x Gunnery
 1 x Screens
 2 x Command
 1 x Steward (Shugilii)

The Gadni Type 56m was one of the standard Vilani escorts that bore the brunt
of patrol duties throughout the Interstellar Wars. The design was already
centuries old when the First War broke out in 2110AD (the m series itself was
a minor improvement of the earlier k series) and the design could trace its
origins back to the Conslidation Wars. The design was intended as a low cost
no frills small patrol ship for simple anti-piracy and customs duties. Until
contact with the Terrans the design had served the Vilani well and could be
found throughout the Ziru Sirka. However when faced with the Terrans deep
penetration raids, the design proved to be unsuited for the new tasks asked
of it. The design's biggest drawback when facing the Terrans was it lack of
endurance. It simply could not stay on station long enough to prevent the
Terrans from using the many unexploited systems as supply points.

The Type 56m shows many of the features typical of classic Vilani ships. The
ships did not bear individual names after the Terran pattern, rather they
were simply assigned the name Gadni (escort) and a penant number. They use 
a
streamlined disk hull form with little attention to asthetic styling giving a
good volume to surface ratio at a reasonable cost. They only carry sufficent
food and fuel for 672 hours operations (21 standard Vilani "days"), which
while adequate for their general patrol and escort duties, proved inadequate
for dealing with the Terrans long range commerce raiders. They feature a
strong missile armarment with generous magazine capacity, with no secondary
armarment and only limited point defence capacity from the single sandcaster.
They also feature a far higher crew compliment than would be encountered on
a corresponding Terran ship. This is partially due to the Vilani caste
system which prevented any individual from filling more than one post; and
partly by the fact that the Vilani never utilised automation to the same
degree as the Terrans. Several captured ships of this type saw service in the
Terran Confederation Navy, but they never proved popular with their crews.

The Type 56m, Gadni 583309 has the distinction of being the first ship to be
destroyed during the Interstellar Wars. It was her destruction by the
Canberra over Barnard that lead to the First Interstellar War. The Gadni
583309 proved to be no match for close range fire from the Canberra's spinal
particle accelerator and was quickly destroyed.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #607
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Friday, June 26 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 608



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re:  Imprisonment in the Imperium
Re: Zuchai Crystals as Heat Sinks
Apology
Re: Campaign Cartographer (and Gal2CC announcement)
Re: people travelling
Re: Campaign Cartographer
re: Piracy and the late 3I
Market Price Calculator Software
Re: M:IW a Vilani escort/patrol ship
Re: Zuchai Crystals as Heat Sinks
Re: M:IW a Vilani escort/patrol ship
Re: Cheap civ chem detlaser missile 
Re: Piracy and the late 3I
[Humor]: Low-tech spacecraft
Zhodani Information
Reality: Another extrasolar planet discovery
Re: Reality: Another extrasolar planet discovery
Traveller CD-ROM contents, long

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 13:28:29 +0200
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re:  Imprisonment in the Imperium

>Great books....
>
>Anyone ever come up with the specs for a docilator in Trav?
>
>
>Later,
>
>Mick

Something along the lines of a nonremovable radiocontrolled nutcracker with
the steering unit at the courthouse.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 13:30:38 +0200
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Zuchai Crystals as Heat Sinks

>>How about high-efficiency thermionic diodes? With 11,000 worlds
>>for materials research and 1000 years to do that research, the
>>Imperium should have a design much more efficient and effective
>>than anything we have today (IMHO).
>
>
>Only if they can co-ordinate their research to any degree, and with
>communications times being at least a week between systems up to six parsecs
>apart, how are you going to tell your colleagues on the other side of the
>Imperium of your results before they have already followed a similar path
>and got similar results? If you find a major breakthrough then by the time
>you've told everyone it's out of date.
>
>Cheers,
> Anson

11000 worlds can pool some of their research money into one type 6 gov,
research planet with a few millon scientists and support staff. No comm
delay problems there.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:30:04 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Apology

My humble apology for sending the same (long) message to the list twice. 
Ohpps.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 12:07:53 +0100
From: John Wood <John@elvw.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Campaign Cartographer (and Gal2CC announcement)

Bryan <Kagehira@aol.com> wrote,
> Thanks to Dominic Reynolds, Profantasy has graciously allowed a Demo
> version of Campaign Cartographer to be allowed on the Traveller CD-ROM
> (public version) on a limited basis.

Excellent!  I can certainly recommend it for people who

    * Use Windows 95/NT;

    * Want to create maps;

    * Have sufficient disposable income.

> There is one set of files already on the disk that uses that program
> if I recall correctly. And from what I understand the Demo will allow
> you to view and print files.

The stuff I contributed included IS Form 21, a MegaTraveller-era world
map grid for Campaign Cartographer 2.

> I'd be interested in seeing if anybody else has any they'd care to
> donate to the disk.

This seems an appropriate time to mention a program I've been working
on:

Gal2CC takes sectors from Jim Vassilakos' Galactic and creates script
files for Campaign Cartographer 2 which should result in sector maps
approaching the standards of maps published in GDW, DGP and IG products.

Features include:

    * Optional printing of world name (including capitalised pop 9+
      names and red text for capitals), port, bases, gas giant,
      amber/red zones, hex location, allegiance, and trade routes.

    * Automatic generation of base key and subsector catalog.

    * A blank CC2 sector map is included.

Limitations:

    * It currently exists only as a console app, so you need to type
      inconvenient commands like
      
        > Gal2CC -y "1105 (Second Survey)" Classic\Spinmar\Spinmar
      
    * Subsector borders cut across hexes with worlds.

    * It makes no attempt to prevent trade routes cutting across other
      details.  This is a tricky one - I may leave this to human
      intervention (moving world names, etc).  This was presumably done
      for the published maps.

    * I don't know how reserves are indicated in the data, so can't add
      them.

    * It uses standard base descriptions rather than the ones in the
      Galactic sector file.  This is actually quite tricky to solve too,
      since a single base code can indicate multiple bases, and I'd need
      fuzzy pattern matching to resolve (say) "Naval & Scout Bases" into
      "Navy Base" and "Scout Base".  I may go for a compromise solution.

    * It would be nice to add political borders, but these don't seem to
      be represented in the Galactic files.

Future Enhancements:

    * Add an option to produce subsector maps.

    * Add a Windows front end for easy selection of sectors & options.

    * Break subsector borders so they don't cut across worlds.

Implementation:

    * It's written in fairly portable C, with OS-specific stuff (such as
      I/O) isolated.  This was just for practice - converting files from
      a DOS program to a Win32 app means it didn't actually need to be
      portable!  I haven't written any C for four years, and it shows.

Getting it:

    * It's not quite ready for public release yet so I haven't put it on
      my website.  If anyone wants to play with it, I'll mail it to you.
      Please specify if you want source code, example scripts, and/or
      example maps included.

Two Warnings:

    * You may need the patch file from the Profantasy site to run the
      scripts properly.  The original release version didn't cope with
      font names with spaces (like "Courier New", which I use for hex
      numbers).  If the demo version suffers from this problem, I'll
      make it an option to stick with other fonts.

    * The generated scripts are long (full Spinward Marches with all
      details: 10640 lines), even though I've optimised it to eliminate
      redundant commands.  This can be slow to process in CC2 (2.5 mins
      on my P166).

Thank you for your time.

John
 
John G. Wood  |  john@elvw.demon.co.uk  |  Oxford, United Kingdom
IMTU tc+ tm+ tn t4(+) ru--(+) ge 3i+ jt au- st ls+ hi++ so- zh+ pi+ jd++
Various Traveller IS Forms: http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jun 1998 14:27 EDT
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Re: people travelling

I'll agree with what Steve says... I can live with the numbers,
but I too don't mind reducing traffic volume, by half easily, 
and perhaps even by an order of magnitude.  

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 07:40:58 -0500
From: "Pearson Publishing" <jdpearson@wr.net>
Subject: Re: Campaign Cartographer

When is the CD ROM goig to be available?  And from whom?

> Thanks to Dominic Reynolds, Profantasy has graciously allowed a Demo
>  version
> of Campaign Cartographer to be allowed on the Traveller CD-ROM (public
> version) on a limited basis.


 -- James Pearson
"The purpose of a referee is to present obstacles 
for players to overcome as they go about seeking 
their goals, not to constantly make trouble for them.
This is a very subtle distinction ..."

The Traveller Book, p. 12

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/4089

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 09:17:45 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Piracy and the late 3I

Steve Hudson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Presumably both the Imperium and the IN
have sufficient knowledge of their security needs and the art of strategy
to be flexible in achieving their objectives most efficiently (not to say
that security might or might not be number one - but at least the IN doesn't
have fellow services with which to bicker [just the battleship vs battlerider
debates :> ]).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Battleship vs Battlerider? Noooooo!!!!!   <g>

While "flexible" and "efficient" might apply to Imperial and IN security
efforts in the core worlds, I'd say the Impie track record five wars running
in the Spinward Marches shows a certain lack once you get away from
the Palace. With all those 11000 worlds to back them up, the IN could
never do better than a stalemate, and during the last frontier war it
could be said that the Impies were caught with their pants down.

There's a canon reference (Library Data A-M, the essay on Megacorps)
that even in the late 3I there are still enough mercenary actions _in the
core sectors of the Imperium_ to attract the notice of a Megacorp.
Perhaps the security of the entire Imperium is more show than substance.

Inter-service rivalry...

IMTU, the Imperial Navy has a well defined roles that they own (defense
of the realm from outside aggression, internal peacekeeping) and some
roles that they bicker with the IISS over (especially Intelligence). Some
IN Admirals think that the IISS should be a full-time branch of the Navy
(which is pretty much what it becomes in wartime), other Admirals want
no part in the boring re-survey, spacelane marker maintenace, x-boat
support and other tediousness that makes up a large part of IISS ops.
Fast destroyers are sexier than those pokey Donesev-class Survey
Ships any day. This also leads to the most common IN solution being
superior firepower instead of superior information...there's even a
canonical example in _The Argon Gambit_, where a couple of IN
intelligence agents scare off some cheap thugs by incinerating them with
FGMP-15's. Subtle, hmmmm?  <g>

The IISS Intelligence Agents, of course, see themselves as the dashing
heroes making fools of those bumbling bullies in INI. This will often
lead IISS intelligence agents to try and finesse things instead of calling
in the cavalry, especially if the cavalry would have to be IN. What were
those survival rolls for Scouts again?


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 08:41:11 -0500
From: "Pearson Publishing" <jdpearson@wr.net>
Subject: Market Price Calculator Software

I just recently wrote a small VB program that calculates the Base Market Price 
(T4 rules) for cargo based on the Trade Codes of two planets.  It works in 
Windows 3.x or better.  .... a small contribution to the Traveller community! :)

You can find it at:  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/4089


 -- James Pearson
"The purpose of a referee is to present obstacles 
for players to overcome as they go about seeking 
their goals, not to constantly make trouble for them.
This is a very subtle distinction ..."

The Traveller Book, p. 12

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/4089

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 10:19:10 -0400
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com>
Subject: Re: M:IW a Vilani escort/patrol ship

Cool! Andrew, very nice. I must download that spreadsheet and try
designing some ships myself one of these days. Just one comment...

> Features
>  4 x Decontamination Airlock
>  1 x Docking Umbilical
>  1 x Ship's locker (0.2 Td ea.)
>  2 x Prisoner Capacity (0/0/2)
>  1 x Ordinary Galley (Cap: 21)

The Vilani don't take prisoners. Unless it's for something else...

Ethan
- --
Ethan Henry                                            egh@klg.com
Java Evangelist, KL Group                       http://www.klg.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:12:33 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: Zuchai Crystals as Heat Sinks

At 01:30 PM 6/26/98 +0200, you wrote:
>>>How about high-efficiency thermionic diodes? With 11,000 worlds
>>>for materials research and 1000 years to do that research, the
>>>Imperium should have a design much more efficient and effective
>>>than anything we have today (IMHO).
>>
>>
>>Only if they can co-ordinate their research to any degree, and with
>>communications times being at least a week between systems up to six parsecs
>>apart, how are you going to tell your colleagues on the other side of the
>>Imperium of your results before they have already followed a similar path
>>and got similar results? If you find a major breakthrough then by the time
>>you've told everyone it's out of date.
>>
>>Cheers,
>> Anson
>
>11000 worlds can pool some of their research money into one type 6 gov,
>research planet with a few millon scientists and support staff. No comm
>delay problems there.

Or, instead of a planet, they could by the Labship From Hell...

Kurt Feltenberger

“We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a
habit.”
- --- Aristotle ---

mailto:kurt@blazenet.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:08:52 -0400
From: "johannes" <johannes@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: M:IW a Vilani escort/patrol ship

- -----Original Message-----
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com>
To: TML <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Friday, June 26, 1998 10:24 AM
Subject: Re: M:IW a Vilani escort/patrol ship


>
>The Vilani don't take prisoners. Unless it's for something else...
>

Everybody takes prisoners, for questioning if nothing else (keeping them
afterwards is another matter!).  Besides, what if they need to brig one of
their own for a few days, or transport a non-capital offense prisoner?

John

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:54:22 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Cheap civ chem detlaser missile 

> <Lots of tech stuff deleted>
> 
> >OK. One 2m3 civilian det laser. Cost is about KCr 154, potentially less if
> >built with a TL9 beam pointer, more if you want terminal self-guidance.
> >Only two rules have been bent - there is no minimum RoF for Chemical
> >Cartridge Lasers, and I have ignored the requirement for an autoloader on
> >the grounds it's a one-shot weapon.
> >
> >Ian Whitchurch

Missed the original post on this one.  Ian can ya forward me a copy of it?

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 09:12:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Piracy and the late 3I

Steven Hudson writes:
>   Wouldn't economic strength be the best indicator of colonial/dedicated
> SD assets rather than IN presence? Presumably both the Imperium and the IN
> have sufficient knowledge of their security needs and the art of strategy
> to be flexible in achieving their objectives most efficiently (not to say
> that security might or might not be number one - but at least the IN
> doesn't have fellow services with which to bicker [just the battleship vs
> battlerider debates :> ]).

Bear in mind, having every planet below TL 9 or below population 8 get eaten by
black holes would not significantly damage imperial security -- in fact, it
might improve it.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:40:18 -0600
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: [Humor]: Low-tech spacecraft

For those of you concerned about the place of low tech worlds in the
Imperium, fear not! Point yer browsers at:

http://www.theonion.com/onion3323/russianstation.html

The whole site's a gem, but this one especially caught the eye.

Ciao,

- --------------------
Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net
- --------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 13:11:22 -0400
From: "Scott Spieker" <scspieker@ncweb.com>
Subject: Zhodani Information

Hi all,
	I am looking into putting a 'complete' Zhodani work together for presence
on the Web.  If anyone would like to donate or add to the growing
collection of Zhodani information, it would be much appreciated.  I have
been working over this concept for a while, and in the true tradition of
Classic Traveller, believe that the most formidable foe that the Imperium
has to worry about is the Zhodani, yet very little (other than the HIWIG
group and few other individuals) Zhodani specific information available. 
Even fewer in number are the images and visuals that make a site
attractive.

	If anyone is interested in contributing files, rules conversions, maps,
house rules, ship designs, commentaries, what-have-you to the site - you
will also be credited for the assistance and material - please drop me a
line via: scspieker@ncweb.com     Again, anything is welcome, yes, even
wish lists.


Thank you,
Scott Spieker

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:56:19 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Reality: Another extrasolar planet discovery

Of course, others may have known aboutthis before, but I saw this the
first time today:

http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9806/26/new.planet.ap/

"Astronomers discover huge planet 15 light years away."

What is significant about this is that this one appears to be a gas
giant, just under twice Jupiter's size, and cold.

Since they determined the planet's presence by it's effect on it's
parent star, not direct visualization, I'm not sure how they come to
these other conclusions.

Hey, and it's only slightly more than jump 2 away.

Which brings me to one point...stars are not evenly distributed on
parsec boundaries (duh) so how do we get to stars that are, forinstance,
15 ly away? 

My wriggling tentacles tell me that the answer may be simultaneously a
solution to both the regularity of spacing, and possibly the flatness of
traveller maps...

Jump 1 will move a ship to the nearest star sized gravity well between 0
and one parsec along the three axes of real space, which gives six
directions in which to move (hence a hex map). If there is no such
gravity well you are precipitated into empty space.

This implies that a 'direction' as given by a hex actually encompasses a
cubic parsec defined as the space 0,0,0 - 1,1,1 (and various
permutations thereof)

Questions, comments, flames?

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 15:34:24 -0400
From: Matthew Harelick <matth@CYBERNEX.NET>
Subject: Re: Reality: Another extrasolar planet discovery

- --------------8C1425F4BEF004FFBE107CBC
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Just play the game, worry about these details only when someone is actually
interested in a REAL life jump drive.


Bruce Johnson wrote:

> Of course, others may have known aboutthis before, but I saw this the
> first time today:
>
> http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9806/26/new.planet.ap/
>
> "Astronomers discover huge planet 15 light years away."
>
> What is significant about this is that this one appears to be a gas
> giant, just under twice Jupiter's size, and cold.
>
> Since they determined the planet's presence by it's effect on it's
> parent star, not direct visualization, I'm not sure how they come to
> these other conclusions.
>
> Hey, and it's only slightly more than jump 2 away.
>
> Which brings me to one point...stars are not evenly distributed on
> parsec boundaries (duh) so how do we get to stars that are, forinstance,
> 15 ly away?
>
> My wriggling tentacles tell me that the answer may be simultaneously a
> solution to both the regularity of spacing, and possibly the flatness of
> traveller maps...
>
> Jump 1 will move a ship to the nearest star sized gravity well between 0
> and one parsec along the three axes of real space, which gives six
> directions in which to move (hence a hex map). If there is no such
> gravity well you are precipitated into empty space.
>
> This implies that a 'direction' as given by a hex actually encompasses a
> cubic parsec defined as the space 0,0,0 - 1,1,1 (and various
> permutations thereof)
>
> Questions, comments, flames?
>
> --
> Bruce Johnson
> University of Arizona
> College of Pharmacy
> Information Technology Group



- --
Matthew S. Harelick             Software Developer      PhD Candidate
matth@cybernex.net              matth@unipress.com      matth@time.njit.edu
http://www2.cybernex.net/~matth



- --------------8C1425F4BEF004FFBE107CBC
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>
Just play the game, worry about these details only when someone is actually
interested in a REAL life jump drive.
<BR>&nbsp;

<P>Bruce Johnson wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>Of course, others may have known aboutthis before,
but I saw this the
<BR>first time today:

<P><A HREF="http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9806/26/new.planet.ap/">http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9806/26/new.planet.ap/</A>

<P>"Astronomers discover huge planet 15 light years away."

<P>What is significant about this is that this one appears to be a gas
<BR>giant, just under twice Jupiter's size, and cold.

<P>Since they determined the planet's presence by it's effect on it's
<BR>parent star, not direct visualization, I'm not sure how they come to
<BR>these other conclusions.

<P>Hey, and it's only slightly more than jump 2 away.

<P>Which brings me to one point...stars are not evenly distributed on
<BR>parsec boundaries (duh) so how do we get to stars that are, forinstance,
<BR>15 ly away?

<P>My wriggling tentacles tell me that the answer may be simultaneously
a
<BR>solution to both the regularity of spacing, and possibly the flatness
of
<BR>traveller maps...

<P>Jump 1 will move a ship to the nearest star sized gravity well between
0
<BR>and one parsec along the three axes of real space, which gives six
<BR>directions in which to move (hence a hex map). If there is no such
<BR>gravity well you are precipitated into empty space.

<P>This implies that a 'direction' as given by a hex actually encompasses
a
<BR>cubic parsec defined as the space 0,0,0 - 1,1,1 (and various
<BR>permutations thereof)

<P>Questions, comments, flames?

<P>--
<BR>Bruce Johnson
<BR>University of Arizona
<BR>College of Pharmacy
<BR>Information Technology Group</BLOCKQUOTE>
&nbsp;
<PRE>--&nbsp;
Matthew S. Harelick&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Software Developer&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; PhD Candidate
matth@cybernex.net&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; matth@unipress.com&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; matth@time.njit.edu
<A HREF="http://www2.cybernex.net/~matth">http://www2.cybernex.net/~matth</A></PRE>
&nbsp;</HTML>

- --------------8C1425F4BEF004FFBE107CBC--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 16:01:35 EDT
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Traveller CD-ROM contents, long

	The following is a list of what's on the CD-ROM for those who asked:




ADVENTUR       <DIR>        02-15-98  3:25p
	GAELCON  TXT
	GBV_3    TXT
	GBV      1
	GBV      2
	GBV      RTE
	GUSHMEGE SUB
	DEPSHADW TXT
ASTROSIT       <DIR>	Astronomy Site List
	ASTRORES HTM     1,113,393  02-02-98  3:59p
	ALNPLANT HTM        22,612  02-02-98  3:37p
	ALNREF   HTM           634  02-02-98  3:40p
ART            <DIR>
	PDF_EPS        <DIR>
		README   TXT
		TUKERA   PDF
		ANTARES  PDF
		ASLAN AO PDF
		BATTLE R PDF
		DAIBEI   PDF
		DULINOR  PDF
		ESCORT   PDF
		FIGHTER  PDF
		FLEET TE PDF
		IMPERIAL PDF
		IMPSUN2  PDF
		IMPSUN3  PDF
		IMPLINE2 PDF
		LSP      PDF
		MARGARET PDF
		NAASIRKA PDF
		NORRIS   PDF
		OBERLIND PDF
		PANDORA  PDF
		PIRATES  PDF
		PONI EXP PDF
		RULE OF  PDF
		SCOTIAN  PDF
		SHATTERE PDF
		SOLOMANI PDF
		SUSAG    PDF
		SWORD WO PDF
		AKERUT   PDF
		VARGR (E PDF
		VARGR (S PDF
		VLAND    PDF
		ZHODANE  PDF
		ZHODANE  PS
		ANTARES  PS
		ASLAN AO PS
		BATTLE R PS
		DAIBEI   PS
		DULINOR  PS
		ESCORT   PS
		FIGHTER  PS
		FLEET TE PS
		IMPERIAL PS
		IMPSUN2  PS
		IMPSUN3  PS
		IMPSUN4  PS
		LSP      PS
		MARGARET PS
		NAASIRKA PS
		NORRIS   PS
		OBERLIND PS
		PANDORA  PS
		PIRATES  PS
		PONI EXP PS
		RULE OF  PS
		SCOTIAN  PS
		SHATTERE PS
		SOLOMANI PS
		SUSAG    PS
		SWORD WO PS
		TUKERA   PS
		VARGR (E PS
		VARGR (S PS
		VLAND    PS
		AKERUT   PS
	SYLEA          <DIR>
		SYLEA    DSC
		SYLEA    WMF
		SYLEAPC  EPS
		PICPRE   JPG
	BANSHEE  GIF
	BANSHEE  PCX
	BERTIL_J GIF
	BLACKFLM PCX
	DARKMOON GIF
	DARKMOON PCX
	HOLYWIND GIF
	HOLYWIND PCX
	HUIZTILO GIF
	HUIZTILO PCX
	LANCELOT GIF
	LANCELOT PCX
	MORNSTAR GIF
	MORNSTAR PCX
	NIGHTRNR GIF
	NIGHTRNR PCX
	PAUL02   PCX
	REGENCY  GIF
	SCRMEAGL GIF
	SCRMEAGL PCX
	STUART01 GIF
	STUART02 GIF
	STUART03 GIF
	STUART04 GIF
	STUART05 GIF
	STUART06 GIF
	STUART07 GIF
	STUART08 GIF
	STUART09 GIF
	STUART10 GIF
	STUART11 GIF
	STUART12 GIF
	STUART13 PCX
	STUART14 PCX
	STUART15 PCX
	STUART16 PCX
	STUART17 PCX
	STUART18 PCX
	STUART19 PCX
	STUART20 PCX
	STUART21 PCX
	STUART22 PCX
	STUART23 PCX
	STUART24 PCX
	STUART25 PCX
	STUART26 PCX
	STUART27 PCX
	STUART28 PCX
	STUART29 PCX
	STUART30 PCX
	STUART31 PCX
	STUART32 PCX
	STUART33 PCX
	STUART34 PCX
	STUART35 PCX
	STUART36 PCX
	STUART37 PCX
	STUART38 PCX
	STUART39 PCX
	STUART40 PCX
	STUART41 PCX
	STUART42 PCX
	STUART43 PCX
	STUART44 PCX
	STUART45 PCX
	STUART46 PCX
	STUART47 PCX
	STUART48 PCX
	STUART49 PCX
	STUART50 PCX
	STUART51 PCX
	STUART52 PCX
	STUART53 PCX
	STUART54 PCX
	STUART55 PCX
	STUART56 PCX
	STUART57 PCX
	STUART58 PCX
	STUART59 PCX
	SUNDANCR GIF
	SUNDANCR PCX
	THUNDSTK GIF
	THUNDSTK PCX
	PAUL01   PCX
	GALAXY   GIF
	MARS     GIF
	IMPBRST1 GIF
	IMPBURST GIF
	IG_LOGO  HTM
ATARI          <DIR>
	BCG            <DIR>
	BESTIA51       <DIR>
	BNF            <DIR>
	FINDER         <DIR>
	GENESIS2       <DIR>
	IMGSHOW        <DIR>
	ITINERY        <DIR>
	SHENC03        <DIR>
	WORDGEN        <DIR>
	CULTURE  STR
	CULTURE  TTP
	CULTURE  TXT
	HAZARD   STR
	HAZARD   TTP
	HAZARD   TXT
	PSYCHE   STR
	PSYCHE   TTP
	PSYCHE   TXT
	RELIGION STR
	RELIGION TTP
	RELIGION TXT
	SOCIETY  STR
	SOCIETY  TTP
	SOCIETY  TXT
BESTIARY       <DIR>
	TREXIT   TXT
BETAS          <DIR>
	WETNAVY
	WETNAVY  TXT
	WETNAVY1
	WETNAVY2
	WETNAVY3 TXT
	ARTBEING
	SILENT
	EARTHHST
	JULIAN
	MASSALIA
	FF&S1
	FF&S2
	SMALLARM TXT
	WRLDBLD  TXT
	VEGANS
	BLAKDUKE
CAMPCART       <DIR>
CARDFILE       <DIR>
	DEVILS   CRD
CC2            <DIR>	Campaign Cartographer
CONTACT        <DIR>
	TIRRILS  TXT
	FORLORN  TXT
	ANSWERIN TXT
	CAFADI   TXT
	HHKAR    TXT
	IRHADRE  TXT
	LLAMIYA  TXT
	LURIANI  TXT
	SUERRAT  TXT
DECKPLAN       <DIR>
	ANNIC_NO       <DIR>
	BROADSWO       <DIR>
	EMPRESS_       <DIR>
	EXPRESS_       <DIR>
	GAZELLE_       <DIR>
	KINUNIR_       <DIR>
	LAB_SHIP       <DIR>
	LEVIATHA       <DIR>
	RAGNAROK       <DIR>
	ROCK           <DIR>
	SAFARI_S       <DIR>
	SCOUT          <DIR>
	XEEKR'KI       <DIR>
	EMPRESSM ARA   <DIR>
	95TONS   GIF
	LAB_SHIP GIF
	SCOUT_CO GIF
	SEEKER   GIF
	SMALL_CR GIF
	VARGR_SC GIF
	X-BOAT   GIF
	XBOAT_TE GIF
	ADVANCED GIF
	ANNIC-A  GIF
	ANNIC-B  GIF
	ANNIC-C  GIF
	ANNIC-D  GIF
	ANNIC-E  GIF
	ARTIFICI GIF
	BELLEROP GIF
	BOW      GIF
	BROAD-A  GIF
	BROAD-B  GIF
	BROAD-C  GIF
	BROAD-D  GIF
	BROAD-E  GIF
	BROAD-F  GIF
	BROAD-G  GIF
	BROAD-H  GIF
	BROAD-I  GIF
	BROAD-J  GIF
	BUGDETEC GIF
	CARGOCON GIF
	CATAPLTB GIF
	CATAPLTS GIF
	COURIER  GIF
	CWC      GIF
	DEPTHGUA GIF
	DINOM    GIF
	DINOMMAP GIF
	DONOSEVA GIF
	DONOSEVB GIF
	DRAGON-A GIF
	ECHISTE  GIF
	EXPRESBT GIF
	FARTRDER GIF
	FARTRDRA GIF
	FARTRDRB GIF
	FGMP     GIF
	FULACIN  GIF
	FULACIND GIF
	FULCOX-1 GIF
	FULCOX-2 GIF
	GARANWAR GIF
	GAZELLEA GIF
	GAZELLEB GIF
	GRASHFAL GIF
	HOFFLIN  GIF
	HOLOVIDE GIF
	IMAGEREC GIF
	IOS-GRID GIF
	KINUNIRA GIF
	KINUNIRB GIF
	KINUNIRC GIF
	KINUNIRD GIF
	LAB      GIF
	LNGLNR-A GIF
	LNGLNR-B GIF
	LNGLNR-C GIF
	LNGLNR-D GIF
	LVTHN-A  GIF
	LVTHN-B  GIF
	LVTHN-C  GIF
	LVTHN-D  GIF
	LVTHN-E  GIF
	LVTHN-F  GIF
	LVTHN-G  GIF
	LVTHN-H  GIF
	MAP-RNBR GIF
	PGMP     GIF
	PILOT    GIF
	PROSP-1  GIF
	PROSP-2  GIF
	PYSADI   GIF
	REGINA   GIF
	RISEK    GIF
	SAFARI-A GIF
	SAFARI-B GIF
	SEEKER   JPG
	SHIP1    JPG
	SOUNDREC GIF
	STORM-A  GIF
	STORM-B  GIF
	STORM-C  GIF
	SUBMERCH GIF
	TAVONNI  GIF
	VARGRAIR GIF
	VICTORIA GIF
	VIDEOREC GIF
	WET-SUIT GIF
	XBOAT-A  GIF
	XBOAT-B  GIF
	XBOAT-C  GIF
	XBOAT-D  GIF
	XBOAT-E  GIF
	AKERUTM  EPS
	COMMOOFF EPS
	EXPLORE  EPS
	IBMAKERU EPS
	IBMLSP   EPS
	IISSLOGO EPS
	IMPERIAL EPS
	IMPERIUM EPS
	LING     EPS
	NAARIRKA EPS
	NAASLOGO EPS
	OBERLIND EPS
	OBERLINE EPS
	OFFICE   EPS
	SCOUT    EPS
	SHIELD   EPS
	SIMPERM  EPS
	SURVEY   EPS
	SHATTERE EPS
	SOLOMANI TIF
	SDB5X    TIF
	SHATIMP  TIF
	PLANETD  GIF
	Q-IV     DOC
	Q-IV1115 BMP
	HIWGLOGO TIF
	IMPERIUM TIF
	MARGARET TIF
	NORRIS   TIF
	ASLAN    TIF
	DULINOR  TIF
	VARGR    TIF
	ZHODANE  TIF
	TYPEEL15 1
	TYPEEL15 2
	TYPEEL15 3
	TYPEEL15 4
	TYPEVA13
	YUGOBOX        <DIR>
	SYMBOLS        <DIR>
	ANTACH         <DIR>
EQUIPMEN       <DIR>
	199-03   TXT
	199-04   TXT
	199-05   TXT
	199-06   TXT
	199-09   TXT
	199-11   TXT
	199-13   TXT
	199-14   TXT
	199-15   TXT
	199-16   TXT
	199-17   TXT
	AIROBOT2 ASC
	BODMARL  TXT
	LASSCALP TXT
	LITESABR TXT
	MARL     TXT
	PAINT    TXT
	ROBOT2   ASC
	BERTIL
ERRATA         <DIR>
	T4ERRATA HTM
	COACCERR WP
	ERRATA   WP
	TNE_ERR  TXT
	TNE-ERR  TXT
	RSB      ERR
	WBHINDEX TXT
FACTS          <DIR>
	ANCTSITE TXT	List of Ancient Sites
	ASLANCLN TXT	List of Aslan clans
	RACELIST TXT	Race List
	RACE     TXT	Race List
	MR_2     TXT	Race List
	MR_LIST  TXT	Race List
	MEGACORP RTF	Megacorporate list
	MEGACORP TXT	Megacorporate list
FORMS          <DIR>	Forms
	REPAT    FRM	Repatriation form
	XMSG     FRM	Xboat Message form
	CHARSHEE GIF	Character sheet
	CHARSHEE JPG
	XMSG     RTF	Xboat message form
	CALENDAR RTF	Imperial Calendar
	EQUIP    RTF	Equipment Form
	XIMAGE   RTF	Xboat Image Form
	REPAT    RTF	Repatriation form
HIWGDOCS       <DIR>	HIWG Documents
	0001     TXT
	1104     TXT
	1301     TXT
	1302     TXT
	1303     TXT
	1401     TXT
	1502     TXT
	1701     TXT
	1702     TXT
	1703_V3  TXT
	1902     TXT
	3103     TXT
	3104     TXT
	3105     TXT
	3106     TXT
	3107     TXT
	3108     TXT
	3109     TXT
	3111     TXT
	3201     TXT
	3303     TXT
	3304     TXT
	3305     TXT
	3309     TXT
	3311     TXT
	3312     TXT
	3401     TXT
	3402     TXT
	3403     TXT
	3404     TXT
	3405     TXT
	3406     TXT
	3407     TXT
	3408     TXT
	3409     TXT
	3410     TXT
	3411     TXT
	3412     TXT
	3413     TXT
	3414     TXT
	3415     TXT
	3417     TXT
	3418     TXT
	3419     TXT
	40_01    TXT
	4101     TXT
	4103     TXT
	4104     TXT
	4105     TXT
	4106     TXT
	4201     TXT
	4202     TXT
	4203     TXT
	4204     TXT
	4205     TXT
	4206     TXT
	4207     TXT
	4208     TXT
	4209     TXT
	4210     TXT
	4211     TXT
	4212     TXT
	4212_1   TXT
	4212_2   TXT
	4213     TXT
	4215     TXT
	4C_1116  UWP
	4C_1128  UWP
	4C_1200  UWP
	5302     TXT
	5303     TXT
	5306     TXT
	5307     TXT
	5B01     SEC
	6F09     TXT
	6F0A     IFF
	6F0A     TXT
	6G01     TXT
	6I01     TXT
	7401     TXT
	7B01     TXT
	7C01     TXT
	7C02     TXT
	7C03     TXT
	8D01     TXT
	_001_01  TXT
	_005_01  TXT
	_032_01  TXT
	_032_02  TXT
	_032_03  TXT
	_040_01  TXT
	_044_01  TXT
	_044_02  TXT
	_052_01  TXT
	_052_02  TXT
	_052_03  TXT
	_052_04  TXT
	_052_05  TXT
	_052_06  TXT
	_052_07  TXT
	_057_01  TXT
	_092_01  TXT
	_103_01  TXT
	_119_01  TXT
	_119_02  TXT
	_119_03  TXT
	_126_01  TXT
	_130_01  TXT
	_130_02  TXT
	_142_01  TXT
	_142_02  TXT
	_142_03  TXT
	_142_04  TXT
	_142_09  TXT
	_142_10  TXT
	_142_11  TXT
	_142_12  TXT
	_166_01  TXT
	_166_02  TXT
	_166_04  TXT
	_166_05  TXT
	_166_06  TXT
	_166_07  TXT
	_166_08  TXT
	_167_01  TXT
	_174_01  TXT
	_177_01A TXT
	_177_01B TXT
	_177_02A TXT
	_177_02B TXT
	_177_03  TXT
	_177_04  TXT
	_177_05  TXT
	_180_01  TXT
	_181_01  TXT
	_181_02  TXT
	_181_03  TXT
	_181_04  TXT
	_181_05  TXT
	_181_06  TXT
	_181_07  TXT
	_181_10  TXT
	_181_11  TXT
	_181_12  TXT
	_181_14  TXT
	_181_15  TXT
	_181_16  TXT
	_181_17  TXT
	_181_18  TXT
	_199_10  TXT
	_199_12  TXT
	_206_02  TXT
	_208_01  TXT
	_224_01  TXT
	_224_02  TXT
	_224_02A TXT
	_224_03  TXT
	_224_04  TXT
	_224_05  TXT
	_224_06  TXT
	_224_07  TXT
	_224_09  TXT
	_224_10  TXT
	_224_11  TXT
	_224_12  TXT
	_224_13  TXT
	_224_14  TXT
	_224_14A TXT
	_224_15  TXT
	_224_16  TXT
	_224_17  TXT
	_224_17A TXT
	_224_18  TXT
	_224_22  TXT
	_224_24  TXT
	_224_25  TXT
	A001     TXT
	AAB01    TXT
	AAB02    TXT
	AAB03    TXT
	AAB04    TXT
	AAB06    TXT
	AAB07    TXT
	AAB10    TXT
	AS01     TXT
	BLANK    MAP
	COACCERR TXT
	COMPHACK TXT
	ERRATA   TXT
	ESIG     TXT
	GRAVBALL TXT
	INDEX    TXT
	L001     TXT
	Q1_MAP   TXT
	QUOTE50  TXT
	R006     TXT
	REGINA   MAP
	RR01     TXT
	RR02     TXT
	RR03     TXT
	RV01     TXT
	RV03     TXT
	RV06     TXT
	RV07     TXT
	SL01     TXT
	SL02     TXT
	SL03     TXT
	SL04     TXT
	SL05     TXT
	SL06     TXT
	SL07     TXT
	SL08     TXT
	SL09     TXT
	SW01     TXT
	SW02     TXT
	SW03     TXT
	SW04     TXT
	TTECH    TXT
	WBHINDEX TXT
	HIWG142  TXT
	0142_19  TXT
	0142_13  TXT
	0142_14  TXT
	0142_15  TXT
	0142_16  TXT
	0142_20  DOC
	0142_17  TXT
	181_19   TXT
	181_20   TXT
	181_21   TXT
	181_22   TXT
	181_23   TXT
	181_24   TXT
	181_25   TXT
	181_28   TXT
	181_29   TXT
	6F01     TXT
	6F02     TXT
	6F03     TXT
	6F04     TXT
	6F05     TXT
	6F06     TXT
	6F07     TXT
	6F08     TXT
	6F0B     TXT
	6F0C     TXT
	6F0D     TXT
	6F0E     TXT
	7C04     TXT
	7C05     TXT
	7C06     TXT
	7C08     TXT
	7C09V6   TXT
	7C09V9B  TXT
	7C10     TXT
	7C12V4   TXT
	7C12V5   TXT
	7C14B    GIF
	7C14C    GIF
	7C15     GIF
	7C17     TXT
	7C19     TXT
	7C20     TXT
	7C21     TXT
	8D01     WP 
	_142_13  RTF
	_181_19  TXT
	_181_20  TXT
	_181_21  TXT
	_181_22  TXT
	_181_23  TXT
	_181_24  TXT
	_181_25  TXT
	_181_26  TXT
	_181_27  TXT
	_181_28  TXT
	_181_29  TXT
	_181_30  TXT
	_181_31  TXT
	_181_32  TXT
	_181_33  TXT
	_181_34  TXT
	_181_35  TXT
	_181_37  TXT
	_181_38  TXT
	_181_39  TXT
	_231_01  ASC
	_231_01  RTF
	_245_01  ASC
	_245_01  RTF
	X224_20  TXT
	X224_26  TXT
	X224_30  TXT
	X224_31  TXT
	VIRUS_01 TXT
	VIRUS_02 TXT
HIST_IMP       <DIR>
	HISTORY  RTF	History of the Universe
IG             <DIR>
	IG_NEWS  001
	IG_NEWS  003
	IG_NEWS  004
	IG_NEWS  005
	IG_NEWS  006
	IG_NEWS  007
	IG_NEWS  008
	IG_NEWS  009
	IG_NEWS  010
	IG_NEWS  011
	IG_NEWS  012
	IG_NEWS  013
	IG_NEWS  014
	IG_NEWS  015
	IG_NEWS  016
INDEX          <DIR>
	JOURNAL  TXT
	FANZINES
	TRAV-BIB TXT
IRCCHAT        <DIR>	Text from the IRC chats
	DIPVDES  TXT
	ECO101   TXT
	MEDICINE TXT
	PBEM     TXT
	PE-WT    TXT
	PLANET~1 TXT
	PRIVACY  TXT
	WHATTRAV TXT
LIBDATA        <DIR>
	LIBDATA  TXT
	A        TXT
	ANTARES  TXT
	B        TXT
	C        TXT
	CORRIDOR TXT
	D        TXT
	DAGUDASH TXT
	DAIBEI   TXT
	DELPHI   TXT
	DENEB    TXT
	DIASPORA TXT
	DNEBULA  TXT
	E        TXT
	EALIY    TXT
	EMPTY    TXT
	F        TXT
	FARFRONT TXT
	FOREVEN  TXT
	G        TXT
	GUSHMEGE TXT
	GVURRDON TXT
	H        TXT
	HINTER   TXT
	HLAKHOI  TXT
	I        TXT
	ILELISH  TXT
	J        TXT
	K        TXT
	L        TXT
	LISHUN   TXT
	M        TXT
	MAGYAR   TXT
	MASSILIA TXT
	MESHAN   TXT
	N        TXT
	O        TXT
	OLDEXP   TXT
	P        TXT
	PROVENCE TXT
	Q        TXT
	R        TXT
	REAVERS  TXT
	REFT     TXT
	RIFTSPAN TXT
	S        TXT
	SOLOMANI TXT
	SPINMAR  TXT
	T        TXT
	TLAUKHU  TXT
	TROJAN   TXT
	TUGLIKKI TXT
	U        TXT
	V        TXT
	VLAND    TXT
	W        TXT
	CORE     TXT
	WINDHORN TXT
	X        TXT
	Y        TXT
	Z        TXT
	ZARUSH   TXT
	WP             <DIR>
MAPCAD         <DIR>
MAPIT          <DIR>
MESHAN         <DIR>	HIWG Meshan files
	MESH_02  TXT
	MESH_03  TXT
	MESH_04  TXT
	MESH_05  TXT
	MESH_06  TXT
	MESH_07  TXT
	MESH_08  TXT
	MESH1100 SEC
	MESH1120 SEC
MESHSAGA       <DIR>	HIWG-NZ fanzine
	TMS1     PDF
	TMS3     PDF
	TMS3A    PDF
	TMS4     PDF
	TMS5     PDF
	TMS6     PDF
	TMS2     PDF
	TMS7     PDF
NEARSTAR       <DIR>	Near Star Catalog
	CNS3     DOC
	GLIESE1  DBF
Q&A            <DIR>
	Q&A      TXT
QSDS           <DIR>
	BIGHULLS TXT
	QSDS     HTM
	QSDS-X2  TXT
	QSDS15A  HTM
QUAD_ONE       <DIR>
	ALIKASCH TXT
	ANTARES  TXT
	CORRIDOR TXT
	CYBER    TXT
	DAGUDASH SEC
	DAGUDASH TXT
	DAIBEI   TXT
	DELPHI   TXT
	DENEB    TXT
	DIASPORA TXT
	DNEBULA  TXT
	EALIY    TXT
	EMPTY    TXT
	FARFRONT TXT
	FOREVEN  TXT
	GUSHMEGE TXT
	GVURRDON TXT
	HINTER   TXT
	HLAKHOI  TXT
	ILELISH  TXT
	LISHUN   TXT
	MACHIN16 TXT
	MAGYAR   TXT
	MASSILIA TXT
	MESHAN   TXT
	OLDEXP   TXT
	POC_MEDU TXT
	PROVENCE TXT
	Q1_MAP   TXT
	README   TXT
	REAVERS  TXT
	REFT     TXT
	RIFTSPAN TXT
	SOLOMANI TXT
	THETA2   NOT
	THETA3   NOT
	THETA4   NOT
	THETA5   NOT
	THETA6   NOT
	THETASHI PS
	TROJAN   TXT
	TUGLIKKI TXT
	VLAND    TXT
	WINDHORN TXT
	ZARUSH   TXT
POCKT_EM       <DIR>	Pocket Empire files, plus some extra by Derek Stanley
	00010250 TXT
	02510350 TXT
	03510425 TXT
	04260675 TXT
	06260825 TXT
	08261050 TXT
	10511325 TXT
	13261550 TXT
	15511850 TXT
	18512250 TXT
	22512851 TXT
	AORRER~1 PS
	AORRER~2 PS
	AORRER~3 PS
	AORRER~4 PS
	CARRIL~1 TXT
	COREDATA TXT
	CORREL~1 TXT
	FIDELITY PS
	PPRINV~1 TXT
	PENDANG  TXT
	OUTLINE  TXT
	README   TXT
	SYSTEMDT TXT
	WHOFILE  TXT
	TNE_0001 TXT
	TNE_0026 TXT
	TNE_0051 TXT
	TNE_0076 TXT
	TNE_0101 TXT
	TNE_0126 TXT
	TNE_0151 TXT
	TNE_0176 TXT
	TNE_0201 TXT
	TNE_0226 TXT
	TNE_0251 TXT
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	TNE_0301 TXT
	TNE_0326 TXT
	TNE_0351 TXT
	TNE_0376 TXT
	TNE_0401 TXT
	TNE_0426 TXT
	TNE_0451 TXT
	TNE_0476 TXT
	TNE_0501 TXT
	TNE_0526 TXT
	TNE_0551 TXT
	TNE_0576 TXT
	TNE_0601 TXT
	TNE_0626 TXT
	TNE_0651 TXT
	TNE_0676 TXT
	TNE_0701 TXT
	TNE_0726 TXT
	TNE_0751 TXT
	TNE_0776 TXT
	TNE_0801 TXT
	TNE_0826 TXT
	TNE_0851 TXT
	TNE_0876 TXT
	TNE_0901 TXT
	TNE_0926 TXT
	TNE_0951 TXT
	TNE_0976 TXT
	TNE_1001 TXT
	TNE_1026 TXT
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	TNE_1101 TXT
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	TNE_1301 TXT
	TNE_1326 TXT
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	TNE_1701 TXT
	TNE_1726 TXT
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	TNE_1851 TXT
	TNE_1876 TXT
	TNE_1901 TXT
	TNE_1926 TXT
	TNE_1951 TXT
	TNE_1976 TXT
	TNE_2001 TXT
	TNE_2026 TXT
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	TNE_2076 TXT
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	TNE_2151 TXT
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	TNE_2801 TXT
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	GHOSTIES WRI
	NEWS     DOC
	ORIG     DOC
	ORIG     DSC
	ORIGINAL DOC
	FIDELITY PS1
	HAVEN    DOC
	HOS-C1   DOC
	INFONET  DOC
	INFONET  DSC
SCIENCE        <DIR>
	BEANSTLK       <DIR>	Discussion papers on Beanstalk Construction
	TRANSHUM TXT	References for Human augmentation, genetic and cyber
	SPDRIVE1 TXT	FTL drives
	SPDRIVE2 TXT	FTL drives
	SPDRIVE3 TXT	FTL drives
	SPDRIVE4 TXT	FTL drives
SECTOR         <DIR>
	1120           <DIR>
	1200           <DIR>
	BEYOND         <DIR>
	DAIBEI         <DIR>
	REGENCY        <DIR>
	RGNC1200       <DIR>
	VLAND          <DIR>
	SEC            <DIR>
	ALPHACRU SEC
	AMDUKAN  SEC
	AMDUKAN1 SEC
	ANTARES  SEC
	BITMAPS  DOC
	CORE     NSC
	CORE     SEC
	CORRIDOR SEC
	DAGUDASH SEC
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	DAIBEI   SEC
	DARKNEB
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	EALIYA   UWP
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	FORNAST  SEC
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	GUSHEMEG NSC
	GUSHEMEG SEC
	GUSHMEGE SEC
	HINTER   SEC
	LEY      SEC
	LIBSTAR
	LISHUN   SEC
	MAP-KIT  ZIP
	MASSILIA NSC
	MASSILIA SEC
	MENDAN   SEC
	MESHAN   SEC
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	RANGEHEX
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	REFT     SEC
	RIFTSPAN NSC
	RIFTSPAN SEC
	S13X6    BMP
	SOLOMANI SEC
	SPICA    NSC
	SPICA    SEC
	SPINWARD SEC
	SUBSEC   NAM
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	TROJAN   SEC
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	ZHDANT   SEC
	SUBS_CRB TXT
	SUBS_CRB WK1
	SUBS_CRB WP 
	SUBS_LG  TXT
	SUBS_SB  TXT
	TRAVSS   GIF
	TTNESSEC GIF
	MASSILIA TXT
	MASSILIA WP 
	SOLORIM  TXT
	SUB__CRB TXT
	PKUNZIP  EXE
	SECTOR   AI 
	SECTOR   EPS
	SECTOR   WMF
	SECTOR   CDR
	SUBSECT  AI 
	SUBSECT  CDR
	SUBSECT  EPS
	SUBSECT  WMF
SHIPS          <DIR>
	MT             <DIR>
	TNE            <DIR>
	T4             <DIR>
SPREADSH       <DIR>
TNESHEET       <DIR>
	FF-S1          <DIR>
	CITY           <DIR>
	TNE-SS         <DIR>
	TRADLT97       <DIR>
	CARGO    XLS
	CRAFT12  WK1
	GAUSGUNX WB1
	GAUSS    XLS
	GUN-V081 XLS
	KOORS    FM3
	KOORS    FMT
	KOORS    WK1
	KOORS    WK3
	KOORS    WKS
	NECS     TXT
	PASSENGR XLS
	PLANET   WK1
	PLANET   XLS
	PLANET_W XLS
	QSDHULL  XLS
	QSDS10   XLS
	SHIP     TXT
	SPINWARD XLS
	SS-WEAP  XLS
	SSWD     XLS
	STARPORT SIT
	STARS-V1 XLS
	STARSHIP TXT
	TL11     WK1
	TL12     WK1
	TL13     WK1
	TL14     WK1
	TL15     FM3
	TL15     WK1
	TL15     WKS
	TL_SS    NTS
	TRAV41   XLS
	TRAV42   XLS
	TTNECS   XLS
	TTNESHIP XLS
	VEHICLES XLS
	WEAPONS  XLS
	WORLDGEN WK1
	CHARGEN  XLS
	CHARSHT  XLS
	SHIPS    WKS
SOFTWARE       <DIR>
	HARDTIME       <DIR>
	IBM            <DIR>
		ACCRETE        <DIR>
		ACCRETE2       <DIR>
		ACCRETE3       <DIR>
		BNF07          <DIR>
		CHARGEN        <DIR>	Character Generator
		CHARGEN2       <DIR>	Character Generator
		CHARGEN3       <DIR>	Character Generator
		CHARGEN4       <DIR>	Character Generator
		CHARGEN5       <DIR>	Character Generator
		CHARGEN6       <DIR>	Character Generator
		CHARSKTH       <DIR>	Character Sketcher
		DATABASE       <DIR>
		EXTEND         <DIR>
		FINDER         <DIR>
		SECVIEW        <DIR>	Sectir Viewer
		REFGEN         <DIR>
		ITINERY        <DIR>	Itinery program
		MAPMAKER       <DIR>
		ISLAND         <DIR>
		GAL23          <DIR>	Galactic 2.3 (waiting on 2.4)
		GALBUILD       <DIR>
		GDWPROG        <DIR>
		GENESIS        <DIR>
		GENESIS2       <DIR>
		GIZMO          <DIR>
		GRAPHIT        <DIR>
		HEXMAP         <DIR>
		HEX31          <DIR>
		LIBRARY        <DIR>	Library Program
		MEGASHIP       <DIR>
		MEGAWRLD       <DIR>
		MT1DEMO        <DIR>	MegaTraveller 1 Demo
		MT2DEMO        <DIR>	MegaTraveller 2 Demo
		MTGMAID        <DIR>	MegaTraveller GM Aid
		NAVIGATO       <DIR>
		OTSYS          <DIR>
		RGS            <DIR>
		STAR10         <DIR>
		STAR           <DIR>
		SYSGEN         <DIR>
		STGVIEW        <DIR>
		TNE_CHAR       <DIR>
		TNE_PROG       <DIR>
		TRAV_NAV       <DIR>	Traveller Navigator
		TRAVPROG       <DIR>
		TRAVVIEW       <DIR>
		TRTV096        <DIR>	Traveller Tools .96
		TRVLCOMP       <DIR>	Travel Computer
		TRVWORD        <DIR>	Traveller Word Generator(s)
		TWORLDS        <DIR>
		WEATHER        <DIR>
		WORDGEN        <DIR>
		WORLDGEN       <DIR>
		WORLDGN        <DIR>
		ANIMLGEN BAS
		ASLAN    C
		ASLAN    EXE
		ASLANMAP EXE	Quick and Dirty Program for Solomani & Aslan book, compile
		ASLANMAP PAS	Quick and Dirty Program for Solomani & Aslan book, Source
		CHARB100 EXE
		CHARB2   EXE
		CHARGENB DOC
		CULTURE  EXE
		CULTURE  STR
		CULTURE  TXT
		HAZARD   EXE
		HAZARD   STR
		HAZARD   TXT
		HDL_9502 TXT
		HIVER    EXE
		IBMBEST  EXE	Bestiary Program
		MARINE   DAT
		NAMESB   DAT
		PIRATE   DAT
		PSYCHE   EXE
		PSYCHE   STR
		PSYCHE   TXT
		RELIGION EXE
		RELIGION STR
		RELIGION TXT
		SCOUT    EXE
		SECGEN1  EXE
		SECTGEN  BAS
		SECTGEN  EXE
		SKILLS   DAT
		SOCIETY  EXE
		SOCIETY  STR
		SOCIETY  TXT
		SPCCMBT  BAS
		STARSHIP BAS
		STARSYS  PAS
		SUBSECTA EXE
		TEMPCALC BAS
		TRAVGEN  BAS
		TRAVGEN  EXE
		TRAVGEN  TXT
		UWP      DOC
		UWP      EXE
		UWPGEN   EXE
		UWPGEN   PAS
		UWPSRC   BAS
	JAVA           <DIR>	Sector viewer
		3RD-SU1  TAR
		3RD-SU2  TAR
		3RD-SU3  TAR
		MAKEFI~1 HTM
		SECTOR~1 HTM
		SECTOR~2 HTM
		SECTOR~3 HTM
		SECTOR~4 HTM
		SERVIN~1 HTM
		STARSY~1 HTM
		SURVAP~1 HTM
		SURVEY~1 HTM
		SURVEY~2 HTM
		SURVEY~3 HTM
		SURVEY~4 HTM
		SURVEY~5 HTM
		COPYRG~1 HTM
	MAC            <DIR>	Mac Software, demos
		INFINI~1 HQX
		MEGACH~1 HQX
		MEGALI~1 HQX
		MEGAME~1 HQX
		METATO~1 HQX
		ROB_2    HTM
		ROB_PR~1 HTM
		IGS_SIT  HQX
STARPORT       <DIR>
	0D00     TXT
	0D02     TXT
	0D03     TXT
	0D04     TXT
	0D05     TXT
	0D06     TXT
	0D07     TXT
	0D08     TXT
	0D09     TXT
	0D10     TXT
	0D11     TXT
	0D12     TXT
	0D13     TXT
	0D14     TXT
	0D15     TXT
	0D16     TXT
	0D80     TXT
	0D80     WP
	0D97     TXT
	0D98     WP
	0D98B    TXT
	0D98D    TXT
	0D99     TXT
	0D99A    TXT
	0DA1     TXT
	0DC1     TXT
	0DD0     TXT
	0DD1     TXT
	0DD2     TXT
	0DD3     TXT
	0DD4     TXT
	0DD5     TXT
	0DD6     TXT
	0DD7     TXT
	0DD8     TXT
	0DD9     TXT
	0DH1     TXT
	0DI0     TXT
	0DI1     TXT
	0DI3     TXT
	0DI4     TXT
	0DI5     TXT
	0DI6     TXT
	0DI7     TXT
	0DK1     TXT
	0DR0     TXT
	0DU0     TXT
	BAGGALEY TXT
	ED003    TXT
	GEMCLI   TXT
	LOADFILE C
	REGISTR  TXT
	STARPORT TXT
	ZUBER    TXT
TML            <DIR>	Traveller Mailing List Archives.
	TML87          <DIR>
	TML88          <DIR>
	TML89          <DIR>
	TML90          <DIR>
	TML91          <DIR>
	TML92          <DIR>
	TML93          <DIR>
	TML94          <DIR>
	TML94A         <DIR>
	TML95          <DIR>
	TML96          <DIR>
	TML97          <DIR>
	TML97A         <DIR>
	TML98          <DIR>
	TML98A         <DIR>
TNE-RCES       <DIR>	Traveller, the New Era mailing list archives
	RCES9412 TXT
	RCES9508 TXT
	RCES9509 TXT
	RCES9511 TXT
	RCES9512 TXT
	RCES9601 TXT
	RCES9703 TXT
	RCES9604 TXT
	RCES9605 TXT
	RCES9606 TXT
	RCES9609 TXT
	RCES9610 TXT
	RCES9611 TXT
	RCES9612 TXT
	RCES9701 TXT
	RCES9702 TXT
	RCES9704 TXT
	RCES9603 TXT
	RCES9705 TXT
	RCES9706 TXT
	RCES9707 TXT
	RCES9708 TXT
	RCES9709 TXT
	RCES9710 TXT
	RCES9711 TXT
	RCES9712 TXT
	RCES9801 TXT
	TNE-RCES 158
	TNE-RCES 159
	TNE-RCES 160
	TNE-RCES 161
	TNE-RCES 162
	TNE-RCES 154
	TNE-RCES 155
	TNE-RCES 156
	TNE-RCES 157
	TNE-RCES 163
	TNE-RCES 164
	TNE-RCES 165
	TNE-RCES 166
	TNE-RCES 167
	TNE-RCES 168
	TNE-RCES 169
	TNE-RCES 170
	TNE-RCES 171
	TNE-RCES 172
	TNE-RCES 173
	TNE-RCES 174
	TNE-RCES 175
	TNE-RCES 176
	TNE-RCES 177
	TNE-RCES 178
	TNE-RCES 179
	TNE-RCES 180
	TNE-RCES 181
	TNE-RCES 182
	TNE-RCES 183
	TNE-RCES 184
	TNE-RCES 185
	TNE-RCES 186
	TNE-RCES 187
	TNE-RCES 188
	TNE-RCES 189
	TNE-RCES 190
	TNE-RCES 191
	TNE-RCES 192
	TNE-RCES 193
TNS            <DIR>	Collection of Traveller News Service articles
	1105_TNS HTM
	1106_TNS HTM
	1107_TNS HTM
	1108_TNS HTM
	1109_TNS HTM
	1110_TNS HTM
	1111_TNS HTM
	1112_TNS HTM
	1113_TNS HTM
	1114_TNS HTM
	1115_TNS HTM
	1116_TNS HTM
	1117_TNS HTM
	1118_TNS HTM
	1119_TNS HTM
	1120_TNS HTM
	1121_TNS HTM
UTIL           <DIR>
	CONVERT        <DIR>
	UNIX2DOS       <DIR>
	QWKNDX   ZIP
	GREP     EXE
	QWIKINDX DOC
	QWIKINDX EXE
	QWIKINDX REG
VEHICLES       <DIR>
	T4             <DIR>
WHITDWAR       <DIR>	Series of White Dwarf Articles
	AVIONICS ART
	CORE     ART
	CREDITS  ART
	CSB      ART
	ERRATA   ART
	FLET-ENC ART
	GATEWAY  ART
	GUN-SALE ART
	KHAZAD   ART
	L-SWORD  ART
	MAHWRS   ART
	MORALITY ART
	MUDSKIPR ART
	NPCS     ART
	ON-CARDS ART
	WORDLY   ART
	SPACELNS ART
	LIFT-ADV ART
	HAPPYLAN PDF
WRITRCON       <DIR>
	WRITCON1 TXT
	WRITCON2 TXT
	WRITCON3 TXT
	WRITCON4 TXT
XBOAT          <DIR>
	XBOAT94        <DIR>
	XBOAT95        <DIR>
	XBOAT96        <DIR>
	XBOAT96A       <DIR>
YIKLER         <DIR>
	SUBMMAP  JPG
	SUBNMAP  JPG
	SUBOMAP  JPG
	SUBPMAP  JPG
	TALPHOME GIF
	YIKLER01 HTM
	YIKLER01 TXT
	YIKLER02 HTM
	YIKLER03 HTM
	YIKLER03 TXT
	YIKLER04 HTM
	YIKLER05 HTM
	YIKLER06 HTM
	YIKLER07 HTM
	YIKLER08 HTM
	YIKLER09 HTM
	YIKLER10 HTM
	YIKLER11 HTM
	YIKLER12 HTM
	YIKLER13 HTM
	YIKLER14 HTM
	YIKLER15 HTM
	YIKLER16 HTM
	YIKLER17 HTM
	YIKLER18 HTM
	YIKLER19 HTM
	YIKSMDOT GIF

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #608
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Saturday, June 27 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 609



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller CD-ROM contents, long
Re: Piracy
Re Gov't Type
[T98#606] Contacting TravLang
Re: M:IW a Vilani escort/patrol ship
Re: Reality: Another extrasolar planet discovery
Re: Re Gov't Type (HUMOR)
Re: Market Price Calculator Software
Re: Reality: Another extrasolar planet discovery
Dean Files ?
Re: Traveller CD-ROM contents, long
Re: Reality: Another extrasolar planet discovery
Re: Dean Files ?
Re: Gadni class
Astrography... (was: Zhodani information)
Re: Cool Miniatures and 15mm Gamers
Re: Traveller CD-ROM contents, long
CD-ROM & Campaign Cartographer
Re: Reality: Another extrasolar planet discovery
Re: Re Gov't Type (HUMOR)
Re: Reality: Another extrasolar planet discovery
Re: Reality: Another extrasolar planet discovery

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 16:24:43 -0400
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller CD-ROM contents, long

> The following is a list of what's on the CD-ROM for those who asked:

Woah! That's huge!
I may have missed it, but what are you going to charge for this thing?

- --
Ethan Henry                                            egh@klg.com
Java Evangelist, KL Group                       http://www.klg.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 13:34:46 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Piracy

Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:29:16, Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>

>>Well, I don't see it as being a matter of man-years.  If the
>>ship did a good job of not leaving enough information to follow,
>>then it won't matter how much time they spend.  If it didn't,
>>and that ship is selected to be checked, then I would say
>>it would take a man-week or so (and a month or two of real
>>time).

>Prisons are full of people whose carefully-constructed alibis were good
>enough to get a not guilty verdict.

Aside from the gramatical error, (If they are in prison, they
were found guilty and their alibi _wasn't_ good enough to get
a not guilty verdict.) I'm not sure how this addresses the
point.  It the fake records _are_ good enough, then the
clues that the merchant has engaged in criminal activity aren't
there and the number of man-years spent on them isn't an
issue.  If they aren't, then it won't take that long to catch
them up.  Sure no scheme to get around records is going to
fool proof.  That only shows that piracy isn't so trivial that
one would have to wonder why everyone isn't doing it.

>>If it does take a few man years, it won't be a problem.  If this
>>is a way of detecting who is a pirate, then you have to go
>>through every single ship's papers to be sure of catching
>>the pirates.  At a few man-years on each, that will add
>>up fast.

>Not if clerks cost about KCr 15 per year apiece. Three man-years mean a 1%
>hit rate on targetted investigations returns over 1000% once you sieze and
>sell the ship.

Well, you are assuming that every pirate discovered  means a siezed
ship (in the time we are talking abou they can be lost in capture,
lost attacking another ship later on, sold when the captain felt
he had pushed his luck too far, have changed identies, have moved
out of the region or the Imperium.)  Nor do I necessarily think that
1% of all ships that arrive at a port have just engaged in piracy.

However, that is all irrelevant because I don't claim that record
checking wouldn't happen.  I just don't think it is going to
be so reliable as to make piracy impossible or impractical.

>Naturally enough, when you actually do bust someone, you can work backwards
>to find who they dealt with ... a choice between death or 10 years
>following co-operation is a good way to break open the rest of the gang.

Well, we weren't talking about gangs.

_______________________________________________________________
DSummers@Mail.ARC.NASA.gov

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 12:58:26 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re Gov't Type

>Not entirely clear from the books in question - the municipal
>governments are definitely representative democracies (think
>mayor/city manager, city council/board of aldermen, etc.); none
>of the others are clear, but the central government has the
>overwhelming support of the people, is not elected in any way,
>and gets its personnel at all levels through drafting those who
>are most qualified to fill the positions - and the person so
>drafted willingly goes.
>
Self Perpetuating Oligarchhy would be my guess, especially if it has
popular support without popular elections.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 20:59:19 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: [T98#606] Contacting TravLang

On Thu, 25 Jun 1998 13:41:45 -0400, "Pearson Publishing"
<jdpearson@wr.net> wrote:

>Also, how can I contact the TravLang mailing list?

In effect, you just did, as I am the listowner for it.

The mail software that runs it is a little fiddly occasionally,
so the instructions might not work, but:

send a message to listserv@mail.execnet.com with a body line of 

subscribe travlang

If that doesn't work, let me know, either here or at either of my
email addresses, and I'll add you manually.

The instructions are also in Freelance Traveller; check out the
Information Center, Traveller On The Internet pages.

- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 09:35:22 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: M:IW a Vilani escort/patrol ship

Date sent:      	Fri, 26 Jun 1998 10:19:10 -0400
Subject:        	Re: M:IW a Vilani escort/patrol ship

> Cool! Andrew, very nice. I must download that spreadsheet and try
> designing some ships myself one of these days. Just one comment...

> > Features
> >  2 x Prisoner Capacity (0/0/2)

> The Vilani don't take prisoners. Unless it's for something else...

The ship is also intended for peacetime patrol/customs duties etc. I'd imagine 
that even in the ZS, the penalty for failing to have your ships papers in order is 
not summary execution :*>

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 17:36:07 -0400
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Reality: Another extrasolar planet discovery

Matthew Harelick wrote:

>  Just play the game, worry about these details only when someone is
> actually interested in a REAL life jump drive.
>

Just eat the meat raw, worry about cooking it when somebody invents
fire.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 15:38:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
Subject: Re: Re Gov't Type (HUMOR)

Here's a great Gov Type for a Traveller game!



MISS TEEN USA SEIZES CROWN; DECLARES
 HERSELF MISS TEEN USA FOR LIFE 

     DAYTONA BEACH, FL--Moments after being crowned 1998 Miss Teen USA
Sunday, Melissa Kenner, a 17-year-old Joplin, MO, high-school senior, used
her newfound power to purge the Teen USA government and install herself as
supreme leader for life. 

      "All hail Miss Teen USA," proclaimed Kenner, the 1997 Miss Teen
Missouri, minutes after her ascension to the throne. "All hail the
glorious new regime." 

      Employing a six-girl coalition to overthrow the panel of celebrity
judges, Kenner firmly established herself as the supreme power in Teen
USA. "I am the prettiest," she said, declaring herself Miss Teen USA For
Life. "I am also the sweetest." 

      Resplendent in a shimmering white evening gown and bedecked with the
coveted Miss Teen USA tiara, Kenner tearfully waved and smiled at
onlookers as she clutched a bouquet of roses, flanked by her elite,
machine-gun-wielding secret police, the Revlon Guard. Mandatory audience
applause was enforced with the threat of immediate execution. 

      Kenner, who hopes to be a veterinarian one day because "I love
horses so much," employed brutal force in establishing her military-style
junta, seizing control of Teen USA through swift, violent deployment of
the Revlon Guard. The teen beauty credited her success to "a bright smile,
a positive attitude and a willingness to eliminate anyone who stands in my
way." 

      Kenner's inner circle includes Miss Congeniality Amanda Rochlin of
Connecticut and Salon Selectives' "Teen With Style" winner Missy Harris of
Delaware. 

      An 11th-hour attempt to reclaim power by pageant hosts Bob Goen and
Shari Belafonte-Harper backfired, resulting in their on-air execution at
Kenner's hands. Celebrity judges critically wounded in the purge include
Home Improvement's Zachery Ty Bryan, Mary Kay Cosmetics vice-president
Andrea Iwerks and Superstar Management CEO Albert Sloan. 

      On Monday, Kenner declared martial law across Teen USA and unveiled
the new constitution of her regime. "The law will be dispensed by me,
okay?" she said. "Everybody has to do what I say, when I say, as I see
fit. Only the popular shall determine the fate of the masses." 

      Among the original Miss Teen USA Pageant rules she has already
repealed is the one barring pageant winners from dating during their term.
"I shall date the boys I wish, when I wish," Kenner said. "But I will not
go to bed with them. I am saving myself for the man I marry, because sex
is more special when you wait." 

      Though no formal diplomatic relations have been established between
the Teen USA government and that of the U.S., White House officials have
expressed a willingness to open a line of dialogue with the newly formed
republic. When asked what she would say if she could talk to President
Clinton about one issue, Kenner said, "I would ask him to put more money
into saving the environment, because, when you think about it, this is the
only planet we've got, and we need to make it a better place for our
children to grow up in." 

      Added Kenner: "All enemies of the state will be crushed." 

      Kenner intends to use her $150,000 in cash and prizes to
"consolidate Teen USA's power into an unstoppable military juggernaut."
Her favorite movie is Titanic. 
 


Source: http://www.theonion.com/onion3322/missteenusa.html

- --
Brannon "Ben" Boren
http://www.mog.net/brannonb/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 15:42:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
Subject: Re: Market Price Calculator Software

GREAT little program!

I recall a while back someone mentioned a program that will take UWP
numbers and spit out paragraph descriptions of planets . Can anyone point
me at that program?

Ben

- --
Brannon "Ben" Boren
http://www.mog.net/brannonb/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 17:45:27 -0500
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@fastlane.net>
Subject: Re: Reality: Another extrasolar planet discovery

At 11:56 AM 6/26/1998 -0700, Bruce Johnson wrote:
>Of course, others may have known about this before, but I saw this the
>first time today:
>
>http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9806/26/new.planet.ap/
>
>"Astronomers discover huge planet 15 light years away."
<snip>
>Hey, and it's only slightly more than jump 2 away.
>
<snip>
I stopped playing Traveller after MT.  
Did they double the size of parsecs for jump calculation or what? : )

Jimmy Simpson
	nimrodd@fastlane.net
"Cannot say.
 Saying, I would know.
 Do not know.
 So cannot say."
		-Zathras (Babylon 5)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 18:03:38 -0500
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@fastlane.net>
Subject: Dean Files ?

I am putting together a new version of my MT starship design spreadsheet
and I am trying to find a site with a lot of vehicles designed for MT.  I
believe they were designed by someone named Dean.  I aould like to
incorporate the designs into my spreadsheet.

Jimmy Simpson
nimrodd@fastlane.net

"Most people don't act stupid; it's the real thing."
                                       --Alfred E. Neuman

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:01:09 +0200
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Traveller CD-ROM contents, long

Kagehira@aol.com wrote:
> 
>         The following is a list of what's on the CD-ROM for those who asked:
> 
> FACTS          <DIR>
>         ANCTSITE TXT    List of Ancient Sites
could anybody who already has the CD mail me this one file for comparison with the data on my
site??
- -- 
					 Volker
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
     /----------------------------------------------------------\
    /  Volker A. Greimann  Am Weidengraben 86, C6  54296 Trier   \
   /  grei5001@uni-trier.de   GERMANY    greimann@geocities.com   \
  /  ICQ:9767142      http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061   \
 /  Please don´t try to stop me-I´m just barely ahead of insanity   \
/--------------------------------------------------------------------\

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 16:22:21 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Reality: Another extrasolar planet discovery

Jimmy Simpson wrote:

> <snip>
> I stopped playing Traveller after MT.
> Did they double the size of parsecs for jump calculation or what? : )
> 

Uhh...yeah, that's the ticket, they're named after Bob Parsec...uh
yeah..Whom I've seen naked!

Doh...make that _fiveish_ parsecs not two and some. For some reason my
brain said 1 parsec = 6.25 ly. when I saw that figure.

Hey maybe _THAT'S_ why the RoM was so technologically advanced..someone
misprogrammed in the distance of one parsec, and suddenly those terran
Jump 2 and Jump 3 drives magically become enormously more efficient! ;-P


- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 16:49:09 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Dean Files ?

Rob Dean, who is still around and about the list occasionially.

I have the VD and TL files from the old Sunbane FTP site floating about,
if those are the ones you're looking for.

I'll have to look, but I believe they're on the Traveller CD, as well.

(If not, Bryan, let me know, and I can mail them to you. I also have an
index to the files in an excel spreadsheet. Why I didn't remember these
when the original call for submissions went out, I don't know...must be
the same part of my brain that calculates BobParsecs ;-)

Jimmy Simpson wrote:
> 
> I am putting together a new version of my MT starship design spreadsheet
> and I am trying to find a site with a lot of vehicles designed for MT.  I
> believe they were designed by someone named Dean.  I aould like to
> incorporate the designs into my spreadsheet.

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:11:09
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Gadni class

>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
>Subject: M:IW a Vilani escort/patrol ship
>
>Gadni 583309, Type 56m Escort (FF&S v2)
>Designed by Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
>
>Statistics
> Tons: 400 Td (SL Thick Disc Hypersonic)
> Crew: 15/19
> Cargo: 24 Td (0/1 Handling: 1 x 336 ton)
> Volume: 5600m3
> Passengers High/Med: 0/0
> Cost: 1632.077 MCr
> Mass (L/C): 6211t/5796t
> Passengers Low: 0
> Maintenance Points: 266
> Dimensions: 24.2m x 24.2m x 12.1m
> Troops/Science: 0/0
> Tech Level: 11
> Size: 8
> Frozen Watch: 0
>
>Electronics
> Controls: Dynamic, Standard automation. 3 x FibComp (CM: 0.5 CP: 2.0).
>           Bridge.
> Communications: 1 x Dir Radio (1,000AU, 0.2MW). 1 x Laser (1,000AU, 
>0MW).
> Sensors: 1 x Sci PEMS (13.5 [16mkm] Sci, 0.02MW).
>          1 x Sci AEMS (11.5 [0.5mkm] Sci, 5MW).
>          1 x Sci LIDAR (15 [2mkm] Sci, 3.3MW).
> Survey/Science:
> ECM: 1 x LIDAR. Decoy Disp. (1 units ea.).
> Signatures: Vis:-0.5, IR:-0.5 (-0.5 at 749MW, -1 at 75MW), Act:0.5, Neu:-1,
>             Grav:1
>
>Weaponry
> 2 x Missile Turret Laun 2/2 (Mag: 16 MFD: 500,000km)
>       w/18 Cmd DL 1d6/2 [50] 6G/11 500,000km
>
>Performance
> 2 Jump (40 Td/pc fuel)
> 4.1/4.4 Maneuver (Thruster: 644MW)
> 1/1.1 Contra-grav (85MW)
> 4588kph/4719kph Atmosphere (Cruise: 3441kph/3539kph)
> 4 Power (Fusion: 750MW, 0.08yr)
> 0 Battery
> 80.6 Fuel (Scoop: 5 Purif: 16, 3MW)
> 0/17/2/0/0 Accomodations
> 84 Person/Weeks Life Support (Type: Standard, Normal Food [stored])
> 2 G-Comp
> 0 ESA
> 1 Sandcasters (AV: 60 Cans: 24)
> 0 Damper Turrets
> 0 Damper Screen
> 0 Meson Screen
> 0 Force Field
> 0 Gravtics
> 10 [29] Armor, 16 Structure
>
>Small Craft
> 1 x Minimal Hanger (20 Td, 1 hatch)

This ship raises mixed emotions in me. On one hand, it's a excellent
interpretation on the Vilani design philosophy, as shown by the Imperium
boardgame. On the other hand, as a combat design, it stinks. This isnt to
say it wouldnt be built in large numbers by the First Imperium - they hadnt
faced real opponents in how many years ?

This ship is a total sucker for kinetic-kill missiles, having no response
to them but use of it's own limited missile battery. From many years old
memory, the Vilani DD design had a beam factor ... please please please put
a laser turret on this. It has the power spare, even when pulling it's full
4.5 gees. Otherwise missiles will be able to close to a range of tens of
kilometers before blossoming, rendering the four gee maneuverability moot.

Offensivly, it's a one-trick pony. If it's target has solutions to nuke det
lasers (big sand battery, point defense lasers, counter-missiles, multiple
small craft), then all it can do is run.

Opponents also dont need high gee themselves, if they have solutions to
massed missile attack (and with only 18, it isnt going to be that massed,
anyway). A militarised Tracey class, itself carrying a battery of missiles
and maybe a laser turret or two, will be able to play against a Gadni with
a fair chance of success, and will cost a lot less than 1600 megacredits.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:57:40 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Astrography... (was: Zhodani information)

Does anyone know how the Zhodani do their astrography?  Or any other species
non Vilani method?  The Solomani and Imperials use the the old Vilani system
(maybe w/ a few mods), but the Zhodani, Hivers and K'kree probably use a
different one.  Due to the similarities (identicle, actually) properties of J-
drives amongst all the races, it's probably always on a hex map w/ each hex
being 1 parsec... the differences is how the parsecs are grouped... any ideas?
Better yet... any canonical info?  And I do know about the Vilani "deshi."

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 16:08:59 +1200 (NZST)
From: Richard Fields <rfields@actrix.gen.nz>
Subject: Re: Cool Miniatures and 15mm Gamers

Just found in the latest (in NZ) release from Matchbox includes #47, M2
Bradley Tank, scale 1:98. Looks great. Price in New Zealand $NZ 2.99 each.
Scope it out in a local toy store or www.matchboxtoys.com .

Also picked up at McDonalds (R) a blue plastic 'Nautilus Submarine'. I'm
putting together a conversion to 15mm dergible for Meshan Saga.

Regards
Richard Fields
New Zealand, a small group of islands southwest of California.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:55:27 -0500
From: "Pat Connaughton" <pconnaught@fiastl.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller CD-ROM contents, long

> The following is a list of what's on the CD-ROM for those who asked:
Snip
Yikes! That's great! How and where do I get one?
Please advise
Awaiting with bated breath

Thanks
Pat Connaughton
pconnaught@fiastl.net
"It's the only game in town"
ICQ Member # 2535086

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 03:18:59 EDT
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: CD-ROM & Campaign Cartographer

	This CD-ROM is available now (see previous list for contents; although I'm
currently waiting for Galactic 2.4 before I do the next shipment. Maybe in the
next week. Jim's been busy plugging away at the new additions to the program).

	Ordering info:
Bryan Borich
3890 50th street
San Diego, CA 92105-3005

Cost: $15 + $2 S&H


James Woods,
	The Campaign Cartographer program has a patch so it might be able to use
James Woods software without that one glitch (and speaking of which your CC
map is on the CD, I had it before, and Profantasy sent me another copy of it.
I'd especially like a copy of your mapping utility, it's something I
definitely could use soon, as could some other people I know).



Bryan

P.S. If somebody sees something they don't want on the list tell me. If
somebody has any of the Judges Guild, Marischel or White Dwarf material
scanned, I have permission to include those on the disk (Other former
licensees are still in the works).

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:08:20 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Reality: Another extrasolar planet discovery

In mail you write:

> Of course, others may have known aboutthis before, but I saw this the
> first time today:
>
> http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9806/26/new.planet.ap/
>
> "Astronomers discover huge planet 15 light years away."
>
> What is significant about this is that this one appears to be a gas
> giant, just under twice Jupiter's size, and cold.

I bet they said twice Jupiter's *mass*. Gas giants can't *get* twice as
big as Jupiter!

> Since they determined the planet's presence by it's effect on it's
> parent star, not direct visualization, I'm not sure how they come to
> these other conclusions.

Simple. The orbital period is *easily* determined as it's also the
"period" of the shifts in the star's position. Since you have at least
*some* ide of the star's mass this gives you the orbital radius as
well. 

The *size* of the shifts gives you the mass of the planet. 

So now you have the planet's mass and orbit. The mass determines the
size (it's not massive enough to be a white dwarf, neutron star or
black hole). That also determines whether or not it is generating any
significant amount of heat on its own. 

It's *possible* that something that mass is a *big* chunk of rock, but
it'd be *really*, REALLY unlikely. How do you get that much rock and
metal to accumulate and *not* accumulate a bunch of hydrogen?

A diagram of size versus mass for the typical gas/ice ball is rather
interesting. There's a peak a bit above the size of Jupiter, as at that
size the core pressure is enough to create "degenerate" matter (basicly
the "pressure" from the electron shells isn't enough to keep the atoms
apart, so you wind up with a sort of "sea" of electrons, with nuclei
wandering around, kept apart by the repulsion due to the positive
charges on their nuclei). So size starts to *decrease* slowly once you
hit this peak. 

Once the pressure gets high enough to sustain a moderate amount of
hydrogen fusion, you've got the lowest mass type M dwarf (or maybe the
new type L they proposed recently). And it gets bigger because the
energy released by the fusion causes the core to expand a little and
the outer layers to expand a *lot*. 

From there, size goes up with mass until you hit the most massive type
O supergiants. These have incredibly short lifespans (Some of the ones
Grandfather may have used as nav beacons are already gone!). 

You can't get bigger than these because they drive the fusion reactions
so fast that they are on the verge of exploding. Make them bigger and
they blow up!

I wonder if one of the astronomers on the list has info on the latest
theoretical figures for these sizes. I'd kinda like to have an
"equation" for the curve.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:31:13 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re Gov't Type (HUMOR)

In mail you write:

>
> Here's a great Gov Type for a Traveller game!
>
>
>
> MISS TEEN USA SEIZES CROWN; DECLARES
>  HERSELF MISS TEEN USA FOR LIFE 

<massive snippage>

This is almost as good as the bit in one of John Brunner's "Galactic
Consumer Reports" where a 5 year old gets access to a "twin tube
wishing machine" (ie a thought controlled superfactory sort of gizmo)
with defective censor functions and creates an army of nuclear powered
warrior robots to take over.

Picture Calvin with war robots that answer only to *him*. 

One notable detail was the mile long soda fountain he had built. 

He's expected to die in a few years from malnutrition, but in the
meantime the planet is off limits (and hell for adults, as well as any
kids he doesn't like!).

I'm not sure what government type that'd be, but it's obviously a red
zone. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 09:20:47 -0400
From: Matthew Harelick <matth@CYBERNEX.NET>
Subject: Re: Reality: Another extrasolar planet discovery

Playing the game means getting involved with role playing and
interstellar politics.

I wonder why there is so much gearhead stuff on this list and hardly any
roleplaying
information.


Joe Pettit wrote:

> Matthew Harelick wrote:
>
> >  Just play the game, worry about these details only when someone is
> > actually interested in a REAL life jump drive.
> >
>
> Just eat the meat raw, worry about cooking it when somebody invents
> fire.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 07:29:09 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Reality: Another extrasolar planet discovery

At 09:20 AM 6/27/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Playing the game means getting involved with role playing and
>interstellar politics.

Write something.  Start a thread.  We've discussed the effects of various
politcal decisions endlessly, and have had long threads on every aspect of
characterization you can imagine.

What do you want?  Long posts about last Saturday night's game?  Those have
been done, and frankly, they leave me flat.  If there is a topic that we
are not covering to your satisfaction, you have to breach the topic.
Despite apperances, the TML is not the exclussive property of Leonard,
Bruce, Hans, myself, and a few others.  It is a mailing list open to all
it's members.

>I wonder why there is so much gearhead stuff on this list and hardly any
>roleplaying information.

Because gearheadism works well in this format.  I'm one of the biggest
gearheads on this list.  I recently re-did the King Richard for my
Traveller game (I'll post it when I'm happy with the design).  Did my
players here about the cubic volume of the swimming pool?  The 1.8m3 of
waste space in a 7000dt ship?  No, they were trying to keep tabs on the NND
agent whom they thought was contacting the Ine Givar on Strouden.
Gearheading the design meant that my ship worked well as a setting for
adventure; if the characters had need to know how much waste space was
avalible, I could have the Engineer scoff that it was less than 2m3, and be
able to back it up.

- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
jt- au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #609
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Sunday, June 28 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 610



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Reality: Another extrasolar planet discovery
Underground...
Roleplay on the list (long) was: Re: Reality:
Re: Underground...
Gearhead Overload (was Another extrasolar planet discovery)
Re: Roleplay on the list (long)
Re: Dean Files and Ancient sites
CD ROM submissions
Why tech advance is so slow
Re: Underground...
Re: Underground...
Re: Roleplay on the list
Roleplaying and the list
Re: Roleplay on the list (long)
Re: Roleplaying and the list
Re: Roleplaying and the list 
Role Playing stuff
Re: Roleplaying and the list
Re: Zuchai Crystals as Heat Sinks
Re: Active Traveller Campaigns
Re: Underground...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 12:42:27 -0400
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Reality: Another extrasolar planet discovery

Matthew Harelick wrote:

> Playing the game means getting involved with role playing and
> interstellar politics.
>

And what do you say to the engineer who doesn't give a damn about
interstellar politics? For him, the intricacies of jump drives (and all the
other pseudotech) IS roleplaying.

> I wonder why there is so much gearhead stuff on this list and hardly any
> roleplaying
> information.
>

Because the gearheads post stuff that they like while the roleplayers are
off worrying about just as improbable interstellar politics.

> Joe Pettit wrote:
>
> > Matthew Harelick wrote:
> >
> > >  Just play the game, worry about these details only when someone is
> > > actually interested in a REAL life jump drive.
> > >
> >
> > Just eat the meat raw, worry about cooking it when somebody invents
> > fire.

  The point is that the original poster was obviously interested enough to
post it. If humans waited for somebody else to solve their problems, we'd
still be living in caves and eating raw meat.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 12:32:18 -0500
From: Talisman <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Underground...

I am currently planning a game on a world that was thrown out of orbit
around its star.  The population of the planet had enough time to prepare,
and proper technology to survive by moving underground.  The setting for
the game is several thousand generations later when the planet is captured
by another star...

I would like to hear any thoughts you all have on this idea...
- --
My god, it's full of stars!


Http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/4467

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:16:23 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Roleplay on the list (long) was: Re: Reality:

Matthew Harelick wrote:
> 
> Playing the game means getting involved with role playing and
> interstellar politics.
> 
> I wonder why there is so much gearhead stuff on this list and hardly any
> roleplaying
> information.

Because players ask hard, inconvenient questions like "What is the connection
between maps in Traveller and reality? The Universe is 3-d, why are the maps
flat? Are there places not on the maps that we can get to and hide?

When the players ask the player playing the astrogator something...he's
supposed to say "Because"?

For many players the gearhead stuff on this list _is_ roleplaying information.
We use it to create a background detailed enough for detailed roleplay.

_Why_ did Doug Berry need to know how much waste space there was on the King
Richard, or the exact layout? Because where the **** do you think that agent
was hiding from the players? 

This isn't a flame, merely a defense of the list, which, in reality, it hardly
needs.  Piracy have pretty much been beaten into a fading greasy spot, Virus,
and Near-C rocks have't shown up on the sensors recently, and it's been ages
since we all pretty much agreed that there was no consensus definition of
exactly _what_ a feudal technology was.

Th list waxes and wanes depending on the input from _all_ the people on it.
Sometimes there's such a flood of new ideas it's nearly impossible to keep up
with them all. Right now, frankly, there's a bit of a lull...Andrew's cranking
out ships (cool), occasionally some other things are going, but this is
nothing compared to, say, 6-9 months ago there was new stuff popping up every
day...alien races, weird planets, demented weapons ideas, ship designs, ship
deckplans, lively flamefest^H^H^H^H discussions about all manner of things.

But the list is a community, and a community has to be active. This isn't a
network TeeVee channel, this is public access. What you see is what the
community puts into it. You can't just sit and consume what comes across the
list, you have to contribute, as well.

If there's something you want to see, make some of it...it'll inspire others
to do more, they'll inspire others, and so on. On good days it's like that
mousetrap scene from 'Our Friend the Atom'. On most days, it's like a single
match flaring and dimming in the night, accomanied by the sound of hundreds of
hard drives sucking the post into the Black Hole of TML Quality. 

All of my good ideas that I've posted were inspired, directly or indirectly by
other's posts. My best stuff (IMNSHO) has come as almost a collaboration with
other people's, certainly directly as a result of their ideas, such as the
megamerchant adventure. It's on some web site out there, Goeran's I think.
(Which sadly, I cannot remember at the moment)  I'll dig it up and post it on
my site, too, probably later this weekend. I'm going to go through the
Traveller CD and recover all that stuff I've lost track of and put it up. The
site is 

http://www.u.arizona.edu/~bjohnson 

Follow the Play links.

Anyway...

Someone (Andy Slack??) posted a very gearheaded design for a huge (really
huge!) ship. In it he included one throwaway line about the Great Megamerchant
Strike. I wrote a 2-3000 word adventure about the PC's beeing sent undercover
on board one of these ships (they were a KILOmeter and a half long!) to
investigate and avert another possible strike. Full of detail, tension, a
bunch of NPC's, lot's of play potential (IMVNSHO ;-). It would _never_ have
happened if that ship hadn't been posted...I would never have thought of such
a ship.

But my longwinded point is...if you want to see roleplaying stuff...put it up!
Look at all that gearhead stuff, not as stuff taking up the list and of
interest to gearheads only, but as a springboard to roleplay. 

If every member of this list posted just ONE article _A YEAR_ with new
roleplay stuff, say an NPC, a world description, an adventure seed, an alien,
a fancy gadget, some weird background stuff, like the table of contents for
the special Orrimot issue of 'Starship Collector Monthly', we would have
_more_ than one good meaty roleplaying post EVERY SINGLE DAY! 

Imagine that! 

Better yet, DO THAT!

Bruce (Yes dear, I'll stop raving now) Johnson

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:32:37 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Underground...

Oh, man, they must think it's the end of the world...they'll start suffering
more earthquakes as gravitational forces start acting on their world, altering
the normal tectonic motions of the crust.

What's left of the original atmosphere and hydrosphere will start melting,
both from the increased warming of the new sun, and the friction caused by
tidal action on the planet. This will cause the crust beneath to rebound, like
the Earths did after the Ice Age, when the glaciers retreated, causing more
disruption. Depending on what their social stucture is and what their general
tech level is it could get real apocalyptic on that world.

The planet could have the orbit from hell...highly elliptical, which means
they'll have to get off the planet before summer comes, or have some _biiiig_
AC units. Unless it stays way out in the star's system, in which case they'll
eventually settle into an orbit like Pluto's, and stay cold and dark. It all
depends on twhat the relative paths of the star and planet are.

I'm sure the Bruce who actually remembers what a parsec is can be of more use
than me ;-)


Talisman wrote:
> 
> I am currently planning a game on a world that was thrown out of orbit
> around its star.  The population of the planet had enough time to prepare,
> and proper technology to survive by moving underground.  The setting for
> the game is several thousand generations later when the planet is captured
> by another star...
> 
> I would like to hear any thoughts you all have on this idea...
> --
> My god, it's full of stars!
> 
> Http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/4467

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:35:40 -0700
From: "Brannon \"Ben\" Boren" <brannonb@blarg.net>
Subject: Gearhead Overload (was Another extrasolar planet discovery)

Matthew Harelick wrote:
> 
> Playing the game means getting involved with role playing and
> interstellar politics.
> 
> I wonder why there is so much gearhead stuff on this list and hardly any
> roleplaying
> information.


Three Cheers!  I heartily agree. I actually have a healthy interest in
astronomy, but the formula used to derive the radius of a star based on its
mass is not a significant part of a role playing game for me.  An RPG is
about creating a story, and a story is about a character, not a formula. 
It is desirable for the science to be consistent with reality (or
possibility) in a good sci-fi game, book, or film, but when that becomes
more important than the characters, nobody cares anymore.

I'd like to see more discussion of plot ideas, characters, and other such
stuff on this list. I have very much appreciated the discussions regarding
the workings of the Imperium, and other things that relate to the world in
which the characters (and stories) are based. But there is a LOT of
'gearhead' material on the list. Sometimes I feel like I'm reading
sci.astronomy instead of the TML.

I hope nobody takes offense - as I said, I happen to love astronomy and
science in general, and I appreciate articles like the 'Extrasolar Planet'
story being posted - I just think that the TML seems to be leaning too far
in one direction. Maybe we could make a conscious effort to level it out.

MHO.

Ben

- --
Brannon "Ben" Boren
brannonb@blarg.net
http://www.mog.net/brannonb/

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:17:32 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Roleplay on the list (long)

> Th list waxes and wanes depending on the input from _all_ the people on it.
> Sometimes there's such a flood of new ideas it's nearly impossible to keep up
> with them all. Right now, frankly, there's a bit of a lull...Andrew's cranking
> out ships (cool), occasionally some other things are going, but this is
> nothing compared to, say, 6-9 months ago there was new stuff popping up every
> day...alien races, weird planets, demented weapons ideas, ship designs, ship
> deckplans, lively flamefest^H^H^H^H discussions about all manner of things.

OK, so will people scream & moan if I started dumping details of my campaign 
in construction onto the list?  It's gonna be in CT/MT format, mostly, with 
mebbe just a *touch* of Striker (original version, mind you!!) for spice...

> (Which sadly, I cannot remember at the moment)  I'll dig it up and post it on
> my site, too, probably later this weekend. I'm going to go through the
> Traveller CD and recover all that stuff I've lost track of and put it up. The
> site is 
> 
> http://www.u.arizona.edu/~bjohnson 

Love the 'Don't Panic' button.

> If every member of this list posted just ONE article _A YEAR_ with new
> roleplay stuff, say an NPC, a world description, an adventure seed, an alien,
> a fancy gadget, some weird background stuff, like the table of contents for
> the special Orrimot issue of 'Starship Collector Monthly', we would have
> _more_ than one good meaty roleplaying post EVERY SINGLE DAY! 

Get used to seeing some CT/MT stuff.  <grin>

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:38:19 EDT
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: Dean Files and Ancient sites

	[[ Ibelieve they were designed by someone named Dean.  I aould like to
incorporate the designs into my spreadsheet.
	(If not, Bryan, let me know, and I can mail them to you. I also have an
index to the files in an excel spreadsheet. Why I didn't remember these
when the original call for submissions went out, I don't know...must be
the same part of my brain that calculates BobParsecs ;-)]]

	Yes they are on the CD along with MT design spreadsheets and Rob Deans
alterations to the vehicle building rules. And yes I'm still (always)
accepting submissions for the CD.



	[[ANCIENT SITES: could anybody who already has the CD mail me this one file
for comparison with the data on mysite??]] They are the same as on my site
(which you already got).



Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:43:16 EDT
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: CD ROM submissions

	Just so everybody knows. I'm always looking for things to include on the CD-
ROM. So if you want what you have done included feel free to send me a copy.
	I have just one request, if you have any specific copyright requirements,
email me those too, as a readme file or as part of the program/artwork or
whathaveyou (makes my life a little easier, and I don't hopefully have to
worry if I got it right).


Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 20:54:47 +0100
From: Phil Kitching <PhilK@btinternet.com>
Subject: Why tech advance is so slow

If anyone asks why tech advances really slow down after TL12, just point
out that a properly configured lab ship costs almost 300 trillion credits,
needs 2 million engineers and still only supports 10,000 scientists.

Phil Kitching
Postmark Design Bureau

ps

something I forgot about the Lab ship...its UWP :-)

C000659C  Ni Va As Na
Pop. Mod 2
Scout Base

These values should replace those of over half the systems that it visits.

- -- 
- - --
  Philk@btinternet.com (don't blame BT for any of this, they only pay me:)
  http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo (sorry no Traveller)
  The true meaning of "Dark Horror" in Call of Cuthulu is not appreciated
  until you face Ewoks riding Gaint Space Hamsters.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:33:38 -0500
From: Talisman <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Underground...

Bruce Johnson wrote:

> Oh, man, they must think it's the end of the world...they'll start suffering
> more earthquakes as gravitational forces start acting on their world, altering
> the normal tectonic motions of the crust.

That part I had figured out...thanks for the confirmation.  :)

>
>
> What's left of the original atmosphere and hydrosphere will start melting,
> both from the increased warming of the new sun, and the friction caused by
> tidal action on the planet. This will cause the crust beneath to rebound, like
> the Earths did after the Ice Age, when the glaciers retreated, causing more
> disruption. Depending on what their social stucture is and what their general
> tech level is it could get real apocalyptic on that world.

Well, they had moved underground at about TL 9, and have been under so long they
have forgotten exactly where that they came from.  The population I have in mind
is small, and live in man made caves.

> The planet could have the orbit from hell...highly elliptical, which means
> they'll have to get off the planet before summer comes, or have some _biiiig_
> AC units. Unless it stays way out in the star's system, in which case they'll
> eventually settle into an orbit like Pluto's, and stay cold and dark. It all
> depends on twhat the relative paths of the star and planet are.

What chances would you give of the planet settling into the biozone?

> I'm sure the Bruce who actually remembers what a parsec is can be of more use
> than me ;-)

Any idea is cool.

- --
My god, it's full of stars!


Http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/4467

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:44:34 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Underground...

Talisman wrote:

> > The planet could have the orbit from hell...highly elliptical, which means
> > they'll have to get off the planet before summer comes, or have some _biiiig_
> > AC units. Unless it stays way out in the star's system, in which case they'll
> > eventually settle into an orbit like Pluto's, and stay cold and dark. It all
> > depends on twhat the relative paths of the star and planet are.
> 
> What chances would you give of the planet settling into the biozone?

In reality? slim to none, and slim just boogied out of town.
For the purposes of your game world? Make it so, Game Master! 

What is the probable best case scenario is that the world will go into an
elliptical orbit giving horribly cold winters, hellishly hot summers, and
raging storms in between...The surface would be barren except for some low
forms of life, bacteria, maybe algae or fungi, and that's about all that could
survive the long cold. Annything escaping out of the manmade caves will find
virgin territory to colonize, and under the evolutionary pressures and wide
open system like this planet would quickly(in geologic terms, of course)
spread out and take over...you would have all sorts of weird things
flying/running/swimming/not moving around.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 98 17:01:21 -0500
From: eris@pen.net
Subject: Re: Roleplay on the list

On 06/27/98 at 03:17 PM,  "Keven R. Pittsinger"
<jamstar@glasscity.net> said:

>OK, so will people scream & moan if I started dumping details of my
>campaign  in construction onto the list?  It's gonna be in CT/MT
>format, mostly, with  mebbe just a *touch* of Striker (original
>version, mind you!!) for spice...

Sure they will, but *please* do it anyway!  Some people are going to
scream & moan no matter what you post. ;->

I'd love to see details of your cic (campaign in consruction).

I'd love to see detailed descriptions of systems, planets, equipment,
NPCs, plot ideas, and anything else anybody's got.  Heck I'd love to
see non-detailed descriptions. ;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 11:54:41 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Roleplaying and the list

Date sent:      	Sat, 27 Jun 1998 09:20:47 -0400
From:           	Matthew Harelick <matth@CYBERNEX.NET>
Organization:   	Real-Time Computing Laboratory
To:             	traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject:        	Re: Reality: Another extrasolar planet discovery
Send reply to:  	traveller@MPGN.COM

> Playing the game means getting involved with role playing and
> interstellar politics.

> I wonder why there is so much gearhead stuff on this list and hardly any
> roleplaying
> information.

Well to non-gearheads all those gearhead designs etc are useful. Back before I 
discovered that I too could be a gearhead (lesser spotted) I relied totally on the 
work of a small group of long suffering gearheads to provide the variety of ships, 
vehicles weapons etc I wanted in my campaigns.

Recently I've been posting a number of ship designs to the list. These are a 
small part of a much larger project which is a sourcebook for the Interstellar 
Wars period (working title Prometheus Rising), for which the main body text 
has just passed the 10,000 words milestone. When I've finished that, I'm 
planning an updated and expanded write up of the Luriani for Freelance 
Traveller, after that I have to do some more work on transcribing the Judges 
Guild sectors into Galatic.

Anyhow, take a look at the descriptive text that goes with the ship designs I 
post. In every one I try to include some roleplaying information. Thus with the 
Darwin class frigates one gets a history of the class, an adventure hook (the 
Vilani "stealing" her during the Wars and comments on Terran ship design 
practises which helps expand the underlaying Terran Confederation culture. The 
same with the Orca class raiders and the Gadni escorts etc. Good gearhead 
work is also good rpg work.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 20:08:45 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Roleplay on the list (long)

In a message dated 6/27/98 12:20:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
jamstar@glasscity.net writes:

<< OK, so will people scream & moan if I started dumping details of my
campaign 
 in construction onto the list?  It's gonna be in CT/MT format, mostly, with 
 mebbe just a *touch* of Striker (original version, mind you!!) for spice...
  >>

I can't speak for the rest of the list...but I certainly wouldn't mind seeing
it!  :-)

Ed Jenkins (DustyLV769@aol.com)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 20:12:02 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Roleplaying and the list

In a message dated 6/27/98 16:55:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz writes:

<< Evil Overlord hint No 45
  Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
  bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
 ************************************************************ >>

A few months back, someone posted a complete list  of the Evil Overlord rules.
I printed it out and one of my thieving roomies apparently got it.  Can anyone
repost it to the list?

Ed (DustyLV769@aol.com)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 20:39:07 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Roleplaying and the list 

> A few months back, someone posted a complete list  of the Evil Overlord rules.
> I printed it out and one of my thieving roomies apparently got it.  Can anyone
> repost it to the list?

http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/overlord/   

That help?

Keven
- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 20:43:21 -0500
From: L J Hughes <withluv@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Role Playing stuff

Hi all,

Here's one:
Years ago, the best campaign/adventure series we ever did was an ongoing
PC series operating a starship repo. "company".  Being a pirate is fun
but you know the whole galaxy is against you.  Being a repo. man is
way cooler - you never know who is you friend or who is lying or telling
the truth.  

Anyway, all this was set against the backdrop of the 5th Frontier War
(and the 6th Frontier War!) where the PC's ended up being used as pawns
in the intelligence/counterintelligence games of the belligerents.  
Salvage and repo. rocks!  Seriously, it was a blast and it provides
endless opportunities for the GM to display his/her nasty side. ;-}

For what it's worth.

Yikes and away!
Andy Rutledge

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 17:52:50 -0700
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Re: Roleplaying and the list

>In a message dated 6/27/98 16:55:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
>a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz writes:
>
><< Evil Overlord hint No 45
>  Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
>  bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
> ************************************************************ >>
>
>A few months back, someone posted a complete list  of the Evil Overlord
rules.
>I printed it out and one of my thieving roomies apparently got it.  Can
anyone
>repost it to the list?
>
>Ed (DustyLV769@aol.com)
>
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/overlord.

douglas

E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller
IMTU tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls
The early bird gets the worm, BUT
   the second mouse gets the cheese!

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 13:31:32 +1200
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Zuchai Crystals as Heat Sinks

>11000 worlds can pool some of their research money into one type 6 gov,
>research planet with a few millon scientists and support staff. No comm
>delay problems there.


Yeah, I never thought of that :P

Cheers,
 Anson.

Blockbuster generates 20% of it's revenues through late fees. 
My lifestyle does make a difference, 
by strategically failing I am proactively participating 
in a concerted effort to expand this nations GNP. 
This is my contract with America.

IMTU: tc+ tm tn++ !t4 !tg tt+ to ru ge+ !3i c- jt+ au ls+ pi+ ta++ he++

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 22:49:07 -0400
From: Michael Houghton <herveus@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Active Traveller Campaigns

At 4:40 PM -0400 4/22/98, Robert Eaglestone wrote:
>Alright boys and girls, now that I've got a webpage it's time
>once again for a census of Active Traveller Campaigns (ATC).
>
>If you're in an active Traveller Campaign, send me an e-mail
>with this format:
>
>Location: Bowie, MD, USA
>Founding date: 16 June 1998
>Group size: 5 now, expect 2 more
>Number of referees: 1 (me)
>Health: Just starting - ref and players rusty
>Predominant rules system: MT
>Campaign location: Spinward Marches (Five Sistes for starters)
>Campaign time: 180-1110 (just clear of Fifth Frontier War)
>E-mail contact: herveus@access.digex.net
>
>Please keep the tag field names above, as it will let me process
>the data automatically.
>
>Rob
>
>P.S. I should add "drop tanks" to the IMTU code, shouldn't I?
>
>--
>
>IMTU tc+ t4+ ge-() 3i(+) jt a ls+ va- so- zh vi da+


- ------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@access.digex.net  | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
                          | http://www.access.digex.net/~herveus/

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 19:13:43 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Underground...

In mail you write:

> I am currently planning a game on a world that was thrown out of orbit
> around its star.  The population of the planet had enough time to prepare,
> and proper technology to survive by moving underground.  The setting for
> the game is several thousand generations later when the planet is captured
> by another star...
>
> I would like to hear any thoughts you all have on this idea...

Well, it'd take something *highly* unusual to "throw a planet out of
orbit". Especially to do so *without* causing quakes bad enough to make
survival impossible. Getting captured by another star is even *more*
unlikely.

What's more likely to happen is for the planet to make a hyperbolic
pass of the star and go on out into space again. 

Capture would require a *second* star or *very* large planet. And you'd
likely wind up with a *very* eccentric orbit. And it'd require
sufficiently odd circumstances that the planet is going to have
wandered over a *lot* of parsecs. At around 10,000 years per parsec,
that's gonna be 100,000 to 1,000,000 years. Rather more than "several
thousand generations". :-)

Anyway, from the above, you can tell that one problem will be
earthquakes. Both from the tidal forces now being exerted on the
planet, and from the results of shifting crustal stresses due to
melting of ice (including the frozen atmosphere! :-)

There are likely to be some *really* nasty storms until the atmosphere
and hydrosphere reach some sort of equilibrium with the heating from
the star. These shouldn't bother the folks in the deep shelters much.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #610
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Sunday, June 28 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 611



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Marc releases "Classic" Trav. Text-Adventures...
Zhodani Astrography
Zhodani Dictionary/Glossary
Campaign in progress/Players needed
When Worlds Collide (was: Underground)
Re: Marc releases "Classic" Trav. Text-Adventures...
Re: Zhodani Astrography
Re: Armed merchants
Re: radiators and sensor spoofs
Re: radiators and sensor spoofs
Re: When Worlds Collide (was: Underground)
Imperial Scientists...Threat of Menace?
Re: Imperial Scientists...Threat of Menace?
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #609
Evil Overlord (LONG!)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:10:13 -0700
From: Sanders <timmon@primenet.com>
Subject: Marc releases "Classic" Trav. Text-Adventures...

Ok, where to start? :)

Whilst emailing with Marc about  _Letter of Marque_ (all set for a Monday
mailing as soon as the post-office opens), I happened to ask him about some
other 'lost' (and oft forgotten) Traveller items - namely, the early-to-mid
80's Traveller text-adventures. Things went from there....

Marc has sent me the following "classic" Traveller text-adventures (now
known as "Interactive Fiction" on the net) and various other early
Traveller computer (Apple) software, and he has agreed to allow me to
release all of them into the public domain. 



They are:

_Star Crystal, Episode I - Mertactor: The Volentine Gambit_
	Backcover blurb: 
	"The planet Mertactor/Distract 268 of the Spinward Marches, located at the
fringe of the Imperium. The assignment is simple and profitable - recover a
flashy artifact recently taken from  a representative of DerBonne
Merchants, L.I.C., and return it to Baron Edkos Volentine, a corporate
diirector. You've got two days before your passage home, the Far Trader
"Arax House", is loaded with cargo and ready to leave. There's not really
enough time, but it couldn't hurt to look around - the Mertactor outback is
supposed to be fairly senic, and you might get lucky. Baron Volentine could
be a useful man to make happy."

_Space I_
	Backcover blurb: 
	"Characters" (In-depth character generator based on Classic Trav.) 
	"First Blood" - Now the game is life-and-death."
	"Defend" - On a small planet in a distant solar system, a character
administrates a colony...Suddenly, it is plundered. Do you evacuate,
mobilize, surrender, or abandon the citizens?"
	"Trader" - Recreate the Horatio Alger myth...exploit the vast emptiness of
the galaxy's shipping lines."
	"Explore - On the edge of an ever receding frontier, a lone character
searches out valuable mineral deposits."
	"High Finance - Galaxy-wide investment opportunities are available for the
character who has amassed great wealth during earlier escapades. Your
computer supplies a portfolio. Manipulate to your heart's content."

_Space II_
	Partial backcover blurb: (characters created in _Space I_ are used)
	"Psychodelia - A character enters a world where mind-expanding substances
are sold in the 'shooting galleries' of Psychodelia. Potency? Tolerance?
Physical/mental dependence? Limitations? Hazards? The player must determine
the drug's exact nature through experimentation, knowledge of the character
and the clues which the computer provides."	
	"Shaman - A professional religious practitioner is set down in the midst
of an untamed planet. Traveling from one town to the next, the Shaman lures
native converts by administrating magic, sacrifices, calendric rituals,
oraclular prophesy, and fire-and-brimestone sermons."

_Trader_ 
	Partial listing:
	"Trader simulates interstellar trade and commerce in the Traveller
universe using existing Traveller game rules; it especially depends on the
"Merchant Prince" rules for trade contained in Book 7."
 	Features:
	"Sector Gen" (sector data), "Preprocessor" (sector mapping), "Set
Tradeworld" (defines trade routes within sector), "Editor" (aloows editing
of "Ships" and Sectors), "Ships" (data on 24 classic ships), and two
sectors - The Spinward Marches and The Solomani Rim (hardcopy). 

_Beastiary_
	No info. - I've only the disk, but I imagine it generates beasts ;)

_Word Gen_
	Ummm...guess :)



Here is what I am going to *try* and accomplish before I leave for Europe
in  ten days (wouldn't be bad, but I leave for _another_ week long trip to
Denver on Monday).

Make '.dsk' snapshots of all the above disks.

Key in (as plain ascii text-files) all the documentation in the software
packages.

Write a short text-file indicating that Marc has indeed released them into
the public domain.

Compose a short intro. to Traveller for the uninitiated, with pointers
towards the currently available editions.

Bundle each game/utility and it's documentation into its own zip file and
upload the file to the "Interactive Fiction" archive at ftp.gmd.de (look in
the if-archive dir.). It's a huge archive, so you'll have to search around
a bit. If you don't find it, then check the in-coming/if-archive dir. - it
sometimes takes Volker, the archive librarian, several days to move new
uploads into the archive proper.  

*** Apple emulators for nearly all computer platforms are stored at the
archive, so downdload one, install it, load up the .dsk snapshots and away
you go. Also note - several FREE software packages for writing your own
(TRAVELLER) text-adventures are available at the archive...and is my main
reason for asking Marc to do this - exposure of Traveller in as many
formats as possible can't hurt and will hopefully fuel interest in our
hobby. So why not help out and  and write your own Trav. IF game? ***

I was able to make a snapshot of "Space I" today - I will try to have it
and all it's documentation uploaded to the IF-archive before I leave for
Denver on Monday, and work on the others as I can during the week. If all
else fails, I will continue working on them once I get to Europe. I'll post
further notices to the list as I finish and upload each game in the future.

Guess that covers everything.

Happy Gaming,
Paul Sanders
timmon@primenet.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 00:07:38 EDT
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Zhodani Astrography

TravelrTNE@aol.com asks:

>Subject: Astrography... (was: Zhodani information)
>
>Does anyone know how the Zhodani do their astrography?  Or any other species
>non Vilani method?  The Solomani and Imperials use the the old Vilani system
>(maybe w/ a few mods), but the Zhodani, Hivers and K'kree probably use a
>different one.  Due to the similarities (identicle, actually) properties of
J-
>drives amongst all the races, it's probably always on a hex map w/ each hex
>being 1 parsec... the differences is how the parsecs are grouped... any
ideas?
>Better yet... any canonical info?  And I do know about the Vilani "deshi."

 Chances are that the Imperium doesn't do anything like what we see in the
game, either. The flat hexagonal map is a paper artifact...
 Once holograms take over display technology, you will likely see "true"
position starmaps.

 As for governmental organization, the Zhodani do not use the sector, but do
use the subsector.

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 01:34:55 EDT
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Zhodani Dictionary/Glossary

Speaking of the Zhodani, I compiled a list of all Zdetl words in print, with
contexts and meanings where provided, some six years ago. With a few
additions, it is now on my website...

http://members.aol.com/gypsycomet/index.html

 and check out the listing of What's New.

 Other recent changes include redoing the Essays index page so you actually
know something about that link you are following...

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 04:13:11 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Campaign in progress/Players needed

>Location: Anchorage, Alaska, USA
>Founding date:  June 1998
>Group size: 2 now, need more
>Number of referees: 1 (me)
>Health: So far, so good
>Predominant rules system: MT
>Campaign location: Spinward Marches (Mora for starters)
>Campaign time: 52-1105 (2 years before the Imp-zhodani war)
>E-mail contact: Aramis@asylumbbs.com

Meets sunday afternoons in Mountain View, at a private home.

I posted to the TML in hopes that some lurker living in town will see and
Join. The one other Anchorage-ite I KNOW of on the TML can't make it, much
as Mr. Newman would like to.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 08:06:23 -0400
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: When Worlds Collide (was: Underground)

The people in the shelters have lived there forever, as far as they know -
their planet's previous location in the habitable zone lost in myth and
legend. Even the ruins of the cities on the surface are all but gone.

The planet hurtles through space at a significant fraction of C, so high that
relatavistic effects occur - it has only been thousands of generations to 
make the journey - a journey that, unknown to the cave-dwellers beneath
the surface, is soon to come to an end.

The planet starts _decelerating_ - unknown engines at the planet's core
activate, slowing the planet bit by bit...the planet settles into the
habitable zone of  a new star system. The engines shut down, perhaps
for good, thousands of miles below the crust. Frozen atmosphere melts
in a storm of massive proportions. When the pressure is high enough,
an event occurs that panics the cave-dwellers - the ancient gateways
to the surface, their nature and purpose long forgotten, grind themselves
open through the dust and debris of millenia. The bravest of the people
look out at a world with no walls - and soon the spacecraft of the current
inhabitants of this star system start arriving.

Did the engines at the planet's core come from the Ancients? Were they
designed and built by the inhabitants themselves, in a bygone age when
they were able to devise such things? You can easily have a technology
that reaches amazing heights, but never stumbles on the secret of
Jump Drive. If they also never stumbled onto Stellar Engineering, they
might need to move their homeworld if they thought a super nova was
coming. Their culture stagnates and recedes in the tunnels beneath during
the long voyage to a new star system - but perhaps those who started
the journey prepared for this eventuality, perhaps a brave or questing soul
amongst the people who completed the journey may find the other secrets
these engineers left behind. It may be all that can save them from the
warships and scientists of the Imperial Navy, who cluster like flies around
this planet of wonders. And full of wonders it must be, for how else could 
it arrive in an Imperial star system from deep space, decelerating with
tens (or hundreds) of G's without tearing itself apart?

Just some ideas...


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 23:06:38 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Marc releases "Classic" Trav. Text-Adventures...

In mail you write:

> Whilst emailing with Marc about  _Letter of Marque_ (all set for a Monday
> mailing as soon as the post-office opens), I happened to ask him about some
> other 'lost' (and oft forgotten) Traveller items - namely, the early-to-mid
> 80's Traveller text-adventures. Things went from there....
>
> Marc has sent me the following "classic" Traveller text-adventures (now
> known as "Interactive Fiction" on the net) and various other early
> Traveller computer (Apple) software, and he has agreed to allow me to
> release all of them into the public domain. 

<snip>

> Here is what I am going to *try* and accomplish before I leave for Europe
> in  ten days (wouldn't be bad, but I leave for _another_ week long trip to
> Denver on Monday).
>
> Make '.dsk' snapshots of all the above disks.

Any chance of getting copies on actual floppies? You see, I've got this
Apple II clone.... :-)

> *** Apple emulators for nearly all computer platforms are stored at the
> archive, so downdload one, install it, load up the .dsk snapshots and away
> you go.

Why bother when I've got a hardware "emulator". :-)

Heck, if I'd done a bit more leaning on sales critters, I'd have had
the Trackstar Apple emulator *board* in one of my PC clones!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 23:10:35 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Zhodani Astrography

In mail you write:

> TravelrTNE@aol.com asks:
>
>>Subject: Astrography... (was: Zhodani information)
>>
>> Does anyone know how the Zhodani do their astrography?  Or any other
>> species non Vilani method?  The Solomani and Imperials use the the
>> old Vilani system (maybe w/ a few mods), but the Zhodani, Hivers and
>> K'kree probably use a different one.  Due to the similarities
>> (identicle, actually) properties of J-drives amongst all the races,
>> it's probably always on a hex map w/ each hex being 1 parsec... the
>> differences is how the parsecs are grouped... any ideas?

Well, an interesting alternative is to group the hexes into larger
hexes. It works ok, and will give that "alien" feel when you hand the
stack of hex shaped charts to the players. :-)

A subsector is 80 hexes, a sector is 1280. 

So try a hex 11 hexes across (that is, with 5 "rings" of hexes around
the center hex as your "sub-hexor". That gives 91 hexes. 19 of those
gives you a center "sub-hexor" with two "rings" of "sub-hexors"
surrounding it, for a total of 1729 hexes. This "hexor" should fit on a
piece of hex paper with 24 "rings" around the center hex (for a
"diameter" of 49 hexes).

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 14:08:02 +0100
From: "Buston, John" <john.buston@eds.com>
Subject: Re: Armed merchants

Just a thought... Not seen it mentioned so far (this time around) so.

If you use realistic thrust rules (acceleration is proportional to
thrust divided by mass) then:

                *Empty ships run fast, loaded ships run slow*

In fact a 200DT TL12 free trader, with no cargo, can accelerate about
twice as fast as one that is fully loaded (at least under FFS2). And the
difference increases with TL.

For a dedicated passenger vessel, load doesn't make as much difference.
Only around a 25% acceleration increase when empty.

A large dedicated cargo vessel can accelerate more than four times as
fast with no cargo than it can when loaded.

As the main problem of boarding ships is matching vectors, this does
give an edge to an empty ship trying to catch a full one. It also gives
a ship being chased the option of jettisoning cargo to prolong the
chase. [And the chasing ship had better beware of accelerating into a
cargo container.]

Using realistic thrust a 4G Corsair is just a 2G (heavily) armed trader
with an empty hold :)

And though I still don't believe a piracy CAREER makes sense, this does
at least add another argument to try and justify the canon references.

John

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 14:08:41 +0100
From: "Buston, John" <john.buston@eds.com>
Subject: Re: radiators and sensor spoofs

Does the Larry Niven idea of a high temperature superconductor (at least
100 degrees centigrade) have any value here? He gives superconductors
the property of having the same temperature along their entire length.
This should make an excellent radiator. Does this have any basis in
reality?

If so then:

Take a reel of very high temperature superconducting ribbon and attach
it to the hot end of a heat pump (the hotter the better, IIRC heat
radiates with the 4th power of the temperature). Unwind the ribbon into
space to radiate.  Automatically reel it in and feed it out to adjust
radiated heat as required. This would likely give one hell of a ship
signature. 

In order to minimise the heat you have to radiate, it would make sense
to avoid taking on heat from the local star(s). So why not install a
star-shade(tm).  This is just a *large* disc of Reflec on an insulated
stick that you point so as to shade you from the radiation from the
local star [picture a ship holding a large umbrella :) ]. The
majority(?) of the gamma radiation hitting the disc is reflected, the
remainder is absorbed and re-emitted in random directions. Therefore
only a tiny amount of the stars radiation reaches you, by re-emission or
convection down the stick. This would also greatly reduce stellar
interference with your sensors, increasing their range and sensitivity.
Makes EVA much safer too.

Combine the two and radiate your waste heat from the underside of the
star-shade. Then you have a practical, if very unlikely looking,
radiation shield and radiator. And of course a large blind-spot.

Of course you can't use either of these in atmosphere. But heat is easy
to dump when you can lose it by convection.

By the way how do you radiate waste heat in Jump Space when surrounded
by a bubble of Hydrogen? Wouldn't the Hydrogen reach plasma
temperatures, and melt the hull, if used to dump waste heat for seven
days? Also heating it would excite the gas and cause it to disperse, no?

John

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 09:33:34 -0400
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: radiators and sensor spoofs

Buston, John wrote:


> By the way how do you radiate waste heat in Jump Space when surrounded
> by a bubble of Hydrogen? Wouldn't the Hydrogen reach plasma
> temperatures, and melt the hull, if used to dump waste heat for seven
> days? Also heating it would excite the gas and cause it to disperse, no?

<sarcasm>
You don't.  Everyone just sits back and discusses interstellar politics and
don't worry about such minutia.

OR

All the waste heat is expelled at the instant of Jump just like the jump
fuel.
</sarcasm>

Seriously though, starships would seem to spend most of their time in jump
space (a week compared to days).  On the upside, you don't need nearly as
much power.  Maneuver drives and weapons are probably off line.  You'll
still need a computer and life support and maybe sensors if they work in
your traveller jumpspace.  In any case, this cuts the waste heat way down.
Of course we could hypothesize about the nature of the Lanthanum.  Its got a
very high melting point IIRC, which could be utilized in jumpspace for heat
transfer.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 10:32:32 -0500
From: Talisman <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: When Worlds Collide (was: Underground)

hmmmm, never thought of that....

Walter G. Smith wrote:

> The people in the shelters have lived there forever, as far as they know -
> their planet's previous location in the habitable zone lost in myth and
> legend. Even the ruins of the cities on the surface are all but gone.
>
> The planet hurtles through space at a significant fraction of C, so high that
> relatavistic effects occur - it has only been thousands of generations to
> make the journey - a journey that, unknown to the cave-dwellers beneath
> the surface, is soon to come to an end.
>
> The planet starts _decelerating_ - unknown engines at the planet's core
> activate, slowing the planet bit by bit...the planet settles into the
> habitable zone of  a new star system. The engines shut down, perhaps
> for good, thousands of miles below the crust. Frozen atmosphere melts
> in a storm of massive proportions. When the pressure is high enough,
> an event occurs that panics the cave-dwellers - the ancient gateways
> to the surface, their nature and purpose long forgotten, grind themselves
> open through the dust and debris of millenia. The bravest of the people
> look out at a world with no walls - and soon the spacecraft of the current
> inhabitants of this star system start arriving.
>
> Did the engines at the planet's core come from the Ancients? Were they
> designed and built by the inhabitants themselves, in a bygone age when
> they were able to devise such things? You can easily have a technology
> that reaches amazing heights, but never stumbles on the secret of
> Jump Drive. If they also never stumbled onto Stellar Engineering, they
> might need to move their homeworld if they thought a super nova was
> coming. Their culture stagnates and recedes in the tunnels beneath during
> the long voyage to a new star system - but perhaps those who started
> the journey prepared for this eventuality, perhaps a brave or questing soul
> amongst the people who completed the journey may find the other secrets
> these engineers left behind. It may be all that can save them from the
> warships and scientists of the Imperial Navy, who cluster like flies around
> this planet of wonders. And full of wonders it must be, for how else could
> it arrive in an Imperial star system from deep space, decelerating with
> tens (or hundreds) of G's without tearing itself apart?
>
> Just some ideas...
>
> Walt Smith



- --
My god, it's full of stars!


Http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/4467

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 12:21:54 -0400
From: cmdrx <cmdrx@magicnet.net>
Subject: Imperial Scientists...Threat of Menace?

Comming out of lurk mode to say someting about that Lab ship.  (Life's
been busy of late)

This thing has the Commander scared!  I mean Planet X is puny compaired
to it. Only about 50mil tons v. 90mil).  And like Planet X the danged
thing has its own UPP!

Nevermind the Imperial Marines, watch out for Imperial Scientists!


General: Sir the Imperium has sent an invasion force!

Pocket Emperor: What? A few marines, maybe a fleet of Battleriders?  We
can handle that! We will be victorius!

General: No sir, just one ship.

PE: One ship? (laughs and takes a sip of coffee)

General: It's a lab ship sir!

PE:Spppppllluuuuttttt!!!!(Coffee is all over General) Send a
communication immediately! We surrender!

Very EEEEEEEEvil design!  One hell of a q-ship, its SUPPOSED to be a lab
ship......but with a honkin big PA gun!

- --------------------
Commander X

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 12:19:21 EDT
From: RSpake2064@aol.com
Subject: Re: Imperial Scientists...Threat of Menace?

thats a scarry thoguth....

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 11:10:28 +0100
From: John Wood <John@elvw.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #609

Bryan <Kagehira@aol.com> wrote,
> James Woods,

Actually, he's an actor - and he doesn't play me on TV... ;-)

> The Campaign Cartographer program has a patch so it might be able to
> use James Woods software without that one glitch (and speaking of
> which your CC map is on the CD, I had it before, and Profantasy sent
> me another copy of it.

Great!

> I'd especially like a copy of your mapping utility, it's something I
> definitely could use soon, as could some other people I know).

Bryan, I'll send you the current version as soon as I've written some
instructions - consider this a beta-test version.  If you could try it
out, that would be really useful.  [Like I said, I wasn't planning on
releasing it yet, but this seems like too good an opportunity to miss.]

Any other potential beta-testers out there?

John
 
John G. Wood  |  john@elvw.demon.co.uk  |  Oxford, United Kingdom
IMTU tc+ tm+ tn t4(+) ru--(+) ge 3i+ jt au- st ls+ hi++ so- zh+ pi+ jd++
Various Traveller IS Forms: http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 11:12:11 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Evil Overlord (LONG!)

At 08:12 pm 6/27/98 EDT, you wrote:
>In a message dated 6/27/98 16:55:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
>a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz writes:
>
><< Evil Overlord hint No 45
>  Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
>  bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
> ************************************************************ >>
>
>A few months back, someone posted a complete list  of the Evil
Overlord rules.
>I printed it out and one of my thieving roomies apparently got it.
Can anyone
>repost it to the list?

Here's the version I have--I rearranged it a bit and converted it to
Word.

Becoming an Evil Overlord

It seems to be a good career choice. It pays well, there are all
sorts of perks and you can set your own hours. However, every Evil
Overlord I've heard about invariably gets overthrown and destroyed in
the end.  I've noticed that no matter whether they are barbarian
lords, deranged wizards, mad scientists, loathsome engineers or alien
invaders, they always seem to make the same basic mistakes every
single time. With that in mind, allow me to present...

Things I'd Do If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord

 *  My Legions of Terror will have helmets with clear Plexiglas
visors, not face-concealing ones that can hide the enemy.
 *  My ventilation ducts will be too small to crawl through.
 *  My noble half-brother whose throne I usurped will be killed, not
kept imprisoned in a forgotten cell of my dungeon.
 *  Shooting is not too good for my enemies and should be done ASAP.
 *  The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on
the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the
Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same
applies to the object which is my one weakness.
 *  I will not gloat over my enemies' predicament before killing
them.
 *  When I've captured my adversary and he says, "Look, before you
kill me, will you at least tell me what this is all about?" I'll say
"No" and shoot him. No, on second thought I'll shoot him then say
"No."
 *  After I kidnap the beautiful princess, we will be married
immediately in a quiet civil ceremony, not a lavish spectacle in
three weeks' time during which the final phase of my master plan will
be carried out.
 *  I will not include a self-destruct mechanism unless absolutely
necessary. If it is necessary, it will not be a large red button
labeled "Danger: Do Not Push". The big red button marked "Do Not
Push" will instead trigger a spray of bullets on anyone stupid enough
to disregard it. Similarly, the ON/OFF switch will not clearly be
labeled as such.
 *  I will not interrogate my enemies in the inner sanctum-a small
hotel well outside my borders will work just as well.
 *  I will be secure in my superiority. Therefore, I will feel no
need to prove it by leaving clues in the form of riddles or leaving
my weaker enemies alive to show they pose no threat.
 *  One of my advisors will be an average five-year-old child. Any
flaws in my plan that he is able to spot will be corrected before
implementation.
 *  All slain enemies will be cremated, or at least have several
rounds of ammunition emptied into them, not left for dead at the
bottom of the cliff.
 *  The announcement of their deaths, as well as any accompanying
celebration, will be deferred until after the aforementioned
disposal.
 *  The hero is not entitled to a last kiss, a last cigarette, or any
other form of last request.
 *  I will never employ any device with a digital countdown. If I
find that such a device is absolutely unavoidable, I will set it to
activate when the counter reaches 117 and the hero is just putting
his plan into operation.
 *  I will never utter the sentence "But before I kill you, there's
just one thing I want to know."
 *  When I employ people as advisors, I will occasionally listen to
their advice.
 *  I will not have a son. Although his laughably under-planned
attempt to usurp power would easily fail, it would provide a fatal
distraction at a crucial point in time.
 *  I will not have a daughter. She would be as beautiful as she was
evil, but one look at the hero's rugged countenance and she'd betray
her own father.
 *  Despite its proven stress-relieving effect, I will not indulge in
maniacal laughter. When so occupied, it's too easy to miss unexpected
developments that a more attentive individual could adjust to
accordingly.
 *  I will hire a talented fashion designer to create original
uniforms for my Legions of Terror, as opposed to some cheap
knock-offs that make them look like Nazi storm troopers, Roman foot
soldiers, or savage Mongol hordes. All were eventually defeated and I
want my troops to have a more positive mind-set.
 *  No matter how tempted I am with the prospect of unlimited power,
I will not consume any energy field bigger than my head.
 *  I will keep a special cache of low-tech weapons and train my
troops in their use. That way-even if the heroes manage to neutralize
my power generator and/or render the standard-issue energy weapons
useless-my troops will not be overrun by a handful of savages armed
with spears and rocks.
 *  I will maintain a realistic assessment of my strengths and
weaknesses.  Even though this takes some of the fun out of the job,
at least I will never utter the line "No, this cannot be! I AM
INVINCIBLE!!!" (After that, death is usually instantaneous.)
 *  No matter how well it would perform, I will never construct any
sort of machinery which is  completely indestructible except for one
small and virtually inaccessible vulnerable spot.
 *  No matter how attractive certain members of the rebellion are,
there is probably someone just as attractive who is not desperate to
kill me.
 *  Therefore, I will think twice before ordering a prisoner sent to
my bed chamber.
 *  I will never build only one of anything important. All important
systems will have redundant control panels and power supplies. For
the same reason I will always carry at least two fully loaded weapons
at all times.
 *  My pet monster will be kept in a secure cage from which it cannot
escape and into which I could not accidentally stumble.
 *  I will dress in bright and cheery colors, and so throw my enemies
into confusion.
 *  All bumbling conjurers, clumsy squires, no-talent bards, and
cowardly thieves in the land will be pre-emptively put to death. My
foes will surely give up and abandon their quest if they  have no
source of comic relief.
 *  All naive, busty tavern wenches in my realm will be replaced with
surly, world-weary waitresses who will provide no unexpected
reinforcement and/or romantic subplot for the hero or his sidekick.
 *  I will not fly into a rage and kill a messenger who brings me bad
news just to illustrate how evil I really am. Good messengers are
hard to come by.
 *  I won't require high-ranking female members of my organization to
wear a stainless-steel bustier. Morale is better with a more casual
dress-code. Similarly, outfits made entirely from black leather will
be reserved for formal occasions.
 *  I will not turn into a snake. It never helps.
 *  I will not grow a goatee. In the old days they made you look
diabolic. Now they just make you look like a disaffected member of
Generation X.
 *  I will not imprison members of the same party in the same cell
block, let alone the same cell. If they are important prisoners, I
will keep the only key to the cell door on my person instead of
handing out copies to every bottom-rung guard in the prison.
 *  If my trusted lieutenant tells me my Legions of Terror are losing
a battle, I will believe him. After all, he's my trusted lieutenant.
 *  If an enemy I have just killed has a younger sibling or offspring
anywhere, I will find them and have them killed immediately, instead
of waiting for them to grow up harboring feelings of vengeance
towards me in my old age.
 *  If I absolutely must ride into battle, I will certainly not ride
at the forefront of my Legions of Terror, nor will I seek out the
attacking leader among his army.
 *  I will be neither chivalrous nor sporting. If I have an
unstoppable superweapon, I will use it as early and as often as
possible instead of keeping it in reserve.
 *  Once my power is secure, I will destroy all those pesky
time-travel devices.
 *  When I capture the hero, I will make sure I also get his dog,
monkey, ferret, or whatever sickeningly cute little animal capable of
untying ropes and filching keys happens to follow him around.
 *  I will maintain a healthy amount of skepticism when I capture the
beautiful rebel and she claims she is attracted to my power and good
looks and will gladly betray her companions if I just let her in on
my plans.
 *  I will only employ bounty hunters who work for money. Those who
work for the pleasure of the hunt tend to do dumb things like even
the odds to give the other guy a sporting chance.
 *  I will make sure I have a clear understanding of who is
responsible for what in my organization. For example, if my general
screws up I will not draw my weapon, point it at him, say "And here
is the price for failure," then suddenly turn and kill some random
underling.
 *  If an advisor says to me "My liege, he is but one man. What can
one man possibly do?", I will reply "This." and kill the advisor.
 *  If I learn that a callow youth has begun a quest to destroy me, I
will slay him while he is still a callow youth instead of waiting for
him to mature.
 *  I will treat any beast which I control through magic or
technology with respect and kindness. Thus if the control is ever
broken, it will not immediately come after me for revenge.
 *  If I learn the whereabouts of the one artifact which can destroy
me, I will not send all my troops out to seize it.  Instead I will
send them out to seize something else and quietly put a Want-Ad in
the local paper.
 *  My main computers will have their own special operating system
that will be completely incompatible with standard IBM and Macintosh
Powerbooks.
 *  If one of my dungeon guards begins expressing concern over the
conditions in the beautiful princess' cell, I will immediately
transfer him to a less people-oriented position.
 *  I will hire a team of board-certified architects and surveyors to
examine my castle and inform me of any secret passages and abandoned
tunnels that I might not know about.
 *  If the beautiful princess that I capture says "I'll never marry
you!  Never, do you hear me, NEVER!!!", I will say "Oh well," and
kill her.
 *  I will not strike a bargain with a demonic being then attempt to
double-cross it simply because I feel like being contrary.
 *  The deformed mutants and odd-ball psychotics will have their
place in my Legions of Terror. However before I send them out on
important covert missions that require tact and subtlety, I will
first see if there is anyone else equally qualified who would attract
less attention.
 *  My Legions of Terror will be trained in basic marksmanship. Any
who cannot learn to hit a man-sized target at 10 meters will be used
for target practice.
 *  Before employing any captured artifacts or machinery, I will
carefully read the owner's manual.
 *  If it becomes necessary to escape, I will never stop to pose
dramatically and toss off a one-liner.
 *  I will never build a sentient computer smarter than I am.
 *  My five-year-old child advisor will also be asked to decipher any
code I am thinking of using. If he breaks the code in under 30
seconds, it will not  be used. Note: this also applies to passwords.
 *  If my advisors ask "Why are you risking everything on such a mad
scheme?",  I will not proceed until I have a response that satisfies
them.
 *  I will design fortress hallways with no alcoves or protruding
structural supports which intruders could use for cover in a
firefight.
 *  Bulk trash will be disposed of in incinerators, not compactors.
And they will be kept hot, with none of that nonsense about flames
going through accessible tunnels at predictable intervals-the flames
will be constant!
 *  I will see a competent psychiatrist and get cured of all
extremely unusual phobias and bizarre compulsive habits which could
prove to be a disadvantage.
 *  If I must have computer systems with publicly available
terminals, the maps they display of my complex will have a room
clearly marked as the Main  Control Room. That room will be the
Execution Chamber. The actual main  control room will be marked as
Sewage Overflow Containment.
 *  My security keypad will actually be a fingerprint scanner. Anyone
who  watches someone press a  sequence of buttons or dusts the pad
for fingerprints then subsequently tries to enter by repeating that
sequence will trigger the death ray.
 *  No matter how many shorts we have in the system, my guards will
be instructed to treat every surveillance camera malfunction as a
full-scale emergency.
 *  I will spare someone who saved my life sometime in the past. This
is only reasonable as it encourages others to do so. However, the
offer is good one time only. If they want me to spare them again,
they'd better save my life again.
 *  All midwives will be banned from the realm. All babies will be
delivered at state-approved hospitals. Orphans will be placed in
foster-homes, not abandoned in the woods to be raised by creatures of
the wild.
 *  When my guards split up to search for intruders, they will always
travel in groups of at least two. They will be trained so that if one
of them disappears mysteriously while on patrol, the other will
immediately  initiate an alert and call for backup, instead of
quizzically peering around a corner.
 *  If I decide to test a lieutenant's loyalty and see if he/she
should be made a trusted lieutenant, I will have a crack squad of
marksmen standing by in case the answer is no.
 *  If all the heroes are standing together around a strange device
and begin to taunt me, I will pull out a conventional weapon instead
of using my unstoppable super weapon on them.
 *  I will not agree to let the heroes go free if they win a rigged
contest, even though my advisors assure me it is impossible for them
to win.
 *  When I create a multimedia presentation of my plan designed so
that my five-year-old advisor can easily understand the details, I
will not label the disk "Project Overlord" and leave it lying on top
of my desk.
 *  I will instruct my Legions of Terror to attack the hero en masse,
instead of standing around waiting while members break off and attack
one or two at a time.
 *  If the hero runs up to my roof, I will not run up after him and
struggle with him in an attempt to push him over the edge. I will
also not engage him at the edge of a cliff. (In the middle of a
rope-bridge over a river of molten lava is not even worth
considering.)
 *  If I have a fit of temporary insanity and decide to give the hero
the chance to reject a job as my trusted lieutenant, I will retain
enough sanity to wait until my current trusted lieutenant is out of
earshot before making the offer.
 *  I will not tell my Legions of Terror "And he must be taken
alive!" The command will be "And try to take him alive-unless he
resists."
 *  If my doomsday device happens to come with a reverse switch, as
soon as it has been employed it will be melted down and made into
limited-edition commemorative coins.
 *  If my weakest troops fail to eliminate a hero, I will send out my
best troops instead of wasting time with progressively stronger ones
as he gets closer and closer to my fortress.
 *  If I am fighting with the hero atop a moving platform, have
disarmed him, and am about to finish him off and he glances behind me
and drops flat, I too will drop flat instead of quizzically turning
around to find out what he saw.
 *  I will not shoot at any of my enemies if they are standing in
front of the crucial support beam to a heavy, dangerous, unbalanced
structure.
 *  If I'm eating dinner with the hero, put poison in his goblet,
then have to leave the table for any reason, I will order new drinks
for both of us instead of trying to decide whether or not to switch
with him.
 *  I will not have captives of one sex guarded by members of the
opposite sex.
 *  I will not use any plan in which the final step is horribly
complicated, e.g. "Align the 12 Stones of Power on the sacred altar
then activate the medallion at the moment of total eclipse." Instead
it will be more along the lines of "Push the button."
 *  I will make sure that my doomsday device is up to code and
properly grounded.
 *  My vats of hazardous chemicals will be covered when not in use.
Also, I will not construct walkways above them.
 *  If a group of henchmen fail miserably at a task, I will not
berate them for incompetence then send the same group out to try the
task again.
 *  After I capture the hero's super weapon, I will not immediately
disband my  legions and relax my guard because I believe whoever
holds the weapon is  unstoppable. After all, the hero held the weapon
and I took it from him.
 *  I will not design my Main Control Room so that every workstation
is facing away from the door.
 *  I will not ignore the messenger that stumbles in exhausted and
obviously agitated until my personal grooming or current
entertainment is finished. It might actually be important.
 *  If I ever talk to the hero on the phone, I will not taunt him.
Instead I will say this his dogged perseverance has given me new
insight on the futility of my evil ways and that if he leaves me
alone for a few months of quiet contemplation I will likely return to
the path of righteousness. (Heroes are incredibly gullible in this
regard.)
 *  If I decide to hold a double execution of the hero and an
underling who failed or betrayed me, I will see to it that the hero
is scheduled to go first.
 *  When arresting prisoners, my guards will not allow them to stop
and grab a useless trinket of purely sentimental value.
 *  My dungeon will have its own qualified medical staff complete
with bodyguards. That way if a prisoner becomes sick and his cellmate
tells the guard it's an emergency, the guard will fetch a trauma team
instead of opening up the cell for a look.
 *  My door mechanisms will be designed so that blasting the control
panel on the outside seals the door and blasting the control panel on
the inside opens the door, not vice versa.
 *  My dungeon cells will not be furnished with objects that contain
reflective surfaces or anything that can be unraveled.
 *  If an attractive young couple enters my realm, I will carefully
monitor their activities. If I find they are happy and affectionate,
I will ignore them. However if circumstance have forced them together
against their will and they spend all their time bickering and
criticizing each other except during the intermittent occasions when
they are saving each others' lives at which point there are hints of
sexual tension, I will immediately order their execution.
 *  Any data file of crucial importance will be padded to at least
1.45Mb in size so that it won't conveniently fit on a single
diskette.
 *  When I send underlings to capture the heroes I will ensure that
they have weapons and armor sufficient to overcome the armament the
heroes employ. I will be sure to send at least three underlings for
every hero, and instruct them to retreat and not fight to the last
man if suddenly outmatched by a Secret Weapon.
 *  I will instruct underlings to report to me if they see their
commanding officer disobeying orders, letting prisoners go, or
repeating like an echo whatever a hero says.
 *  If the hero is not in his home/office/clubhouse when my minions
break in, they are to wait there for his return and not make obvious
signs of their presence.
 *  I will only kill underlings who lie to me and hide their
failures. Underlings who admit their failures will be reassigned to
less demanding duties.
 *  I will not repeat pet phrases or rhymes from my violent younger
days to any prisoners or visitors, in case this is the only memory
said persons have of their parents' killer.
 *  Any critical mechanism such as self-destruct, life support, or
protective force fields will be controlled through multiple keyed
interlocks and not a simple on/off switch.
 *  I will construct my secret base of fire resistant materials and
store all my drums of explosives in locked isolated storerooms.
 *  I will design my Death Robots in a non-humanoid form so heroes
cannot use their equipment and weaponry.
 *  Guards will be provided with bunk rooms outside the cell blocks
in case they need to take a nap.
 *  I will store any alien artifacts, mystic portals, or doomsday
weapons in secure laboratories and not my control room.
 *  I will not explain my master plan to an army of underlings until
the plan has already been completed successfully.
 *  When double-crossing a dupe or hireling I will not say "I lied"
until after that person is dead.
 *  Finally, to keep my subjects permanently locked in a mindless
trance, I will provide each of them with free unlimited Internet
access and, of course, free e-mail!
 

- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #611
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Monday, June 29 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 612



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Roleplaying and the list
Traveller for sale stuff found.
[HUMOR]: Low-tech spacecraft
Re: Armed merchants
System Generation Tables
Re: When Worlds Collide (was: Underground)
Re: Evil Overlord (LONG!)
Re: radiators and sensor spoofs
Re: Evil Overlord (LONG!)
Weapon Systems of the Interstellar Wars - the Terran 400 MJ Bay Laser
Re: Paper Trails and Pirates
What are skilled crew worth ?
Gosling class Air/Raft
Re: Underground...
New web site
Re: Roleplay on the list
Re: Underground...
Trader, Bestiary & Wordgen
CD-ROM & the UK
Re: Zhodani Astrography
Re: Zhodani Astrography

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 12:20:24 -0500
From: Talisman <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Roleplaying and the list

I have a link to it on my webpage...  follow the link at the bottom of this email.



DustyLV769@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 6/27/98 16:55:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz writes:
>
> << Evil Overlord hint No 45
>   Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
>   bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
>  ************************************************************ >>
>
> A few months back, someone posted a complete list  of the Evil Overlord rules.
> I printed it out and one of my thieving roomies apparently got it.  Can anyone
> repost it to the list?
>
> Ed (DustyLV769@aol.com)



- --
My god, it's full of stars!


Http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/4467

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 13:41:00 -0400
From: Dave Biggs <dbiggs@magicnet.net>
Subject: Traveller for sale stuff found.

Heres a deal I found on REC.GAMES.BOARD.MARKETPLACE.  See attached message
snip:

This is what I've got.  Please e-mail jecalhoun@earthlink.net if
interested.  All Prices negotiable and buyer pays shipping & handling



Traveller (all for $20)

Starter Edition
Books 4 - 7
Cardboard heroes
Supplements # 1, 2, 6, 8, 11, 12, 13
Adventures 2, 13

$20 bucks for the whole lot sounds like a deal to me,  See the top of the
post for the guys e-mail address for anyone interested.

Dave Biggs --------------------------->dbiggs@magicnet.net (IQC #13698909)
"Sauron" on FIBS, NOBS - dee_biggs on Yahoo"
"stupid races don't build starships" -- Robert Hinlein

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 14:55:05 -0500
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: [HUMOR]: Low-tech spacecraft

For those of you concerned about the place of low tech worlds in the
Imperium, fear not! Point yer browsers at:

http://www.theonion.com/onion3323/russianstation.html

The whole site's a gem, but this one especially caught the eye.

Ciao,

- --------------------
Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net
- --------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 00:42:22 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Armed merchants

David P. Summers writes:

>Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:50:07 +0200 (METDST),  Hans Rancke-Madsen
>>>True, since even I don't argue that.  The question was wether the
>>>paper trail is a "broad" one (and how accurate it is).
> 
>>Oh, was that the question? Let me try answering it then: Broad enough to be
>>easily followed by anyone willing to spend a few man-years on it. That seems
>>to be broad enough for the purpose of making it hazardous to alternate
>>between tranding and pirating. Which was the question as far as I was
>>concerned.
> 
>Well, I don't see it as being a matter of man-years.  If the ship did a good
>job of not leaving enough information to follow, then it won't matter how
>much time they spend.  If it didn't, and that ship is selected to be checked,
>then I would say it would take a man-week or so (and a month or two of real
>time).

I fail to understand why you're suddenly talking about the ship trying not
to leave behind enough information to follow. If you think back, you'll
recall that we were talking about a ship "swimming with the fishes", doing
normal merchant operations while waiting for an opportune target. Can you
explain how a ship can perform normal merchant operations without leaving
a trail of people that has done business with them? Even without assuming
that the Imperium taxes passengers and freight (Obviously, if it does, any
ship involved in normal merchant operations will leave a paper (electron)
trail that goes up to Subsector level at the very least. (In which case we're
propably talking man-hours to follow the track). But just taking on a
passenger or delivering a ton of freight will leave behind witnesses).

>If it does take a few man years, it won't be a problem.  If this is a way
>of detecting who is a pirate, then you have to go through every single
>ship's papers to be sure of catching the pirates. At a few man-years on
>each, that will add up fast.

You get a piracy report. The minimum information you have on the pirate
will depend on whether the pirate steals the ship or not and several 
other factors, but at the very least you can jump in a couple of scouts
a suitable number of light-weeks away and get some idea of its size
(If the victim got off a radio broadcast, or if the pirate only takes the
cargo) you have a heck of a lot more than that, though it is canonical
that emission signatures can be faked). At the very least you'll have a
pretty good idea about its size. You run a check on all ships of the
appropiate size range that could physically have been in that system at
that time. Just comparing starport logs of departure and arrival dates
will eliminate most candidates. Whether you need to send some men round to
collect those records or whether they are automatically sent to the
subsector capital is a trifling matter, a few hundreds of thousand credits
at most. Class E starports may not keep such logs, but OTOH they get
fewer visiting starships, so it would be easier for locals to remember
those they did get. Anyway, once you've eliminated most ships, you send out
investigators (or Imperial starships) to check the rest. The only chance the
pirate has is to run far and fast. He certainly won't be able to go back to
running with the fish.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 19:54:48 -0400
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: System Generation Tables

I'm looking for the tables to generate planets, etc. within a star
system.

Can anyone share that please?

TIA

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 15:37:38 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: When Worlds Collide (was: Underground)

In mail you write:

> The people in the shelters have lived there forever, as far as they know -
> their planet's previous location in the habitable zone lost in myth and
> legend. Even the ruins of the cities on the surface are all but gone.

What removed them? They'd be buried under quite a bit of frozen
atmosphere, and in the depths of interstellar space, that ice isn't
going anywhere.

> The planet hurtles through space at a significant fraction of C, so
> high that relatavistic effects occur - it has only been thousands of
> generations to make the journey - a journey that, unknown to the
> cave-dwellers beneath the surface, is soon to come to an end.

If it's moving *that* fast (better than .6 c), it has to have come from
outside the galaxy (or at least from the other side :-). The galaxy is
only a few hundred thousand parsecs across!

The speed, trip time, and trip distance are are inter-related. Pick any
two and the value of the third is determined by them.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 15:52:22 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Evil Overlord (LONG!)

In mail you write:

>  *  My ventilation ducts will be too small to crawl through.

This isn't possible in large installations. However, I'm told that the
military solves this by lining them with nasty knife-like blades. These
don't interfere with the airflow much, but make using the ducts for
access not worth the trouble. They also help keep the flow turbulent,
which reduces the deposition of dust. :-)

>  *  Any data file of crucial importance will be padded to at least
> 1.45Mb in size so that it won't conveniently fit on a single
> diskette.

Make that:
"I will only use operating systems that incorporate *real* file
 security. And all crucial files will be flagged as non-copyable."

After all, disks get bigger. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 15:44:38 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: radiators and sensor spoofs

In mail you write:

> Does the Larry Niven idea of a high temperature superconductor (at least
> 100 degrees centigrade) have any value here? He gives superconductors
> the property of having the same temperature along their entire length.

Alas, electrical superconductors are *not* thermal superconductors
(Niven got that bit wrong).

> By the way how do you radiate waste heat in Jump Space when surrounded
> by a bubble of Hydrogen? Wouldn't the Hydrogen reach plasma
> temperatures, and melt the hull, if used to dump waste heat for seven
> days? Also heating it would excite the gas and cause it to disperse, no?

The hydrogen isn't going to absorb much of the radiated heat. It's
pretty transparent at those frequencies.

But you've brought up an important limit on the "appearance" of jump
space. If it *doesn't* appear to be as "black" as normal space, then
the radiators don't work as well. So that kills all the "strange
shifting colors" descriptions. If the colors are bright enough to see,
they'll be *heating* the ship. 

I go with the "jump space is just featureless black" and if anything
gets too far from the hull, it doesn't come back. That includes
photons. So the "effective temperature" of jump space is absolute zero.
Making your radiators somewhat *more* efficient than in normal space
(where the parts of the sky that don't contain stars are at an
effective temp of 3 Kelvin).

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 20:53:30 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Evil Overlord (LONG!)

In a message dated 6/28/98 10:16:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
goldendj@pcisys.net writes:

<< Here's the version I have--I rearranged it a bit and converted it to
 Word.
 
 Becoming an Evil Overlord
  >>

Thank you ever so much for the list!  :-)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:50:45
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Weapon Systems of the Interstellar Wars - the Terran 400 MJ Bay Laser

400 MJ 7 m diameter TL11 laser

FAV = 314.16 m3 (22.5 dtons), Fixed MCr 31.42, Trainable MCr 62.84 
Accumulator = 120 m3 (8.6 dtons), 240t, MCr 1.2
500 km BP = 17.67 m3 (1.3 dtons), MCr 1.77
500 km MFD = 35.33 m3 (2.6 dtons), MCr 3.53
Sens 14.5 Lidar = 1m2, 4m3, 8t, MCr 5
Crew of 2 ; 14m3, 0.4t, MCr 0.01 (Gunner plus Sensor Operator)
Damage = 72

Power input (1 shot/20s) = 100 MW

[100 m3 TL11 batteries = 100m3, 200t, MCr 0.4 = 180 shots]
[50 m3 Fusion = 50m3, 200t, MCr 10] 

Assume 50m3 of batteries is included in the bay, meaning a demand of 50MW
on the main power plant in the first hour of combat, then rising to 100 MW.

555.16 m3 (40 dtons), 815.56t, MCr 64.75

Fits into 50 dton bay with a little to spare. As a spinal weapon, cost
falls by MCr 31.4 to MCr 33.35 due to the use of a cheaper non-trainable
array.

The weapon is of sufficient range to reach out and touch someone to just
under 2 light seconds range. Outside that range, evasion tends to dominate
in any case.

The weapon is designed as a dual-purpose long range anti-missile platform,
combined with substantial anti-ship capability (forcing missiles to adopt
evasive courses at or around 100 kkm makes them more vulnerable to
counter-missile fire). I'd say it makes an excellent main gun for a frigate
or a system defense boat, and would see good service in destroyers and up
as a secondary system, backing up a spinal mount.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 12:12:07
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Paper Trails and Pirates

>From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
>Subject: Re: Piracy
>
>Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:29:16, Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
>
>>Prisons are full of people whose carefully-constructed alibis were good
>>enough to get a not guilty verdict.
>
>Aside from the gramatical error, (If they are in prison, they
>were found guilty and their alibi _wasn't_ good enough to get
>a not guilty verdict.) 

I was using irony.

The point is how does the pirate know if they have spent enough on covering
their paper trail ?

Spend too little on forgery and/or bribery and you risk capture.

Spend too much and you become unprofitable - and their is little point on
risking your life month in month out to keep your corrupt buddies rich.

>>Not if clerks cost about KCr 15 per year apiece. Three man-years mean a 1%
>>hit rate on targetted investigations returns over 1000% once you sieze and
>>sell the ship.
>
>Well, you are assuming that every pirate discovered  means a siezed
>ship (in the time we are talking abou they can be lost in capture,
>lost attacking another ship later on, sold when the captain felt
>he had pushed his luck too far, have changed identies, have moved
>out of the region or the Imperium.)

One nice thing about such 'soft kills' is you get to quietly arrest the
crew of the ship, and then the cops are in an excellent position to extract
co-operation from those people. Beats duking it out in deep space.

>>Naturally enough, when you actually do bust someone, you can work backwards
>>to find who they dealt with ... a choice between death or 10 years
>>following co-operation is a good way to break open the rest of the gang.
>
>Well, we weren't talking about gangs.
>

We are talking about a pirate, a base and a fence. Catch one and your odds
on getting the other two are decent. If they are all on one ship, then it's
paper trail will be even broader, because capturing cargo in one subsector
and selling ti somewhere else is even harder.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 21:20:31
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: What are skilled crew worth ?

As part of my long-term trade project, I'm looking at what value high-skill
crew can add to various ship systems.

First of all, combat positions. This depends a lot on what combat system
you use, and how often they expect to see combat. Under High Guard, highly
skilled crew (greater than 3) were a big influence - (1/2 * Ship Tactics)
- -1 could proxy for your computer, so Ship Tactics-3 was the equivalent of a
mod 2 computer. Seeing how a mod2 computer cost about MCr 6 more than a
mod-1, this meant a skilled captain was worth MCr 6. Given standard
financing, a ship tac-3 captain was thus worth KCr 24 per month.

Similarly, a skilled gunner was worth +1 factor for weapons they fired. A
triple TL 11+ sandcaster turret was Fac-4 - getting fac 5 required 2
turrets, so if a skilled gunner can get this effect they either saved you
MCr 0.75 or freed up a hardpoint for offensive weapons.

Pilot or Ships Boat skill could add to your agility, thus increasing your
ships' effective combat maneuverability. Given the cost of t-plates, this
is also substantial.

I'm not sure what effect Engineers should have in combat - letting highly
skilled engo's increase power output (a la Orions in Star Fleet Battles) is
too extreme. Perhaps the skill of an engineer should be the main
determinant on whether or not you can jump out of combat damaged.

Going to the civilian positions, this is where highly skilled positions
dominate.

Broker skill is worth 2.5% of speculative cargo value per level. Given that
a fully loaded Far Trader has about 80 dtons of cargo, if this cargo is
worth KCr 6 per dton, then thats ummm KCr 48 per trip. Higher capacity
traders would increase this in proportion to their cargo bays. I'd say an
even split of profits between the Purser and the rest of the crew sounds
about right myself *grin*

Trader skill is harder to quantify, but I'd say it should be worth about
the same as Broker. In a previous post I suggested successful use of Trader
skill should allow goods to ignore source/market TL differentials,
representing non-TL dependant luxury goods (a hand-embroidered rug may not
have a market price related to how well it keeps you warm at night). Having
a cargo to take off a lo-tech world, even if it's a 50/50 proposition to
make money makes a big difference to profitibility.

Legal skill is important to pass 'routine inspections' at starports and in
deep space, but I'm not sure what thats worth. If untying red tape takes a
couple of days, then repeated failures could cut the amount of time a ship
is making money substantially. If you fail a routine inspection really
really badly, then concequences could go from bad to very bad to
unbelievably bad.

The 'minor' economic skills essentially seem to allow a trader to operate
in more marginal markets - liason, admin, steward and streetwise increase
the projecter amount of cargos and passengers available, which helps make
marginal markets profitable, but they are unlikely to make an unprofitable
route profitable as Broker and/or Trader can.  
Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 20:17:58
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Gosling class Air/Raft

Known in some circles as the 'IISS Retirement Pension', the Gosling class
is a low orbit-capable 9.8 m3 air/raft, built with a mixture of TL8 and 9
components. It is designed to fit into one displacement ton of cargo space.
Two basic models exist, one powered by TL9 batteries for 2 hours operation,
and the other with a TL7 alcohol-burning power plant with 17 hours fuel.
The first is more useful in worlds without oxygen atmospheres, while the
alcohol-burning power plant can find fuel in almost any frontier or lo-tech
world. Both models feature full atmospheric sealing, and a life support
system allowing 12 hours operations.

The fast subsonic airframe carries only a pilot, and is capable of a speed
of 680 km per hour, and can achieve that speed if unloaded. It's true value
on the frontier is it's impressive external cargo capacity - it has a sling
arrangement for external cargos, and is capable of carrying 12 ton of
external cargo at 334 kmh, or 44 ton of external cargo at 136 kmh.

It's electronic suite is simple, consisting of a TL8 avionics and
navigation aids, and a TL9 image enhancement scope for operations in bad
visibility conditions, plus a 500 km range radio tranciever and two TL8
flight computers to assist the pilot.

The total unit costs KCr 42 (KCr 40 for the alcohol-fueled version), with
KCr 35 of that cost being with TL8 components and the remainder at TL9 (KCr
25 is the flight aids and avionics which truly dashing Scout types can
omit). A TL8 solar array unit for recharging the battery on a type 1 model
takes up 14m3, masses 28 t and costs KCr 84 in TL8 credits, and can
recharge the unit in 29 hours of standard sunlight. Other options include
an alcohol or hydrocarbon electric generator, or mains electricity on more
developed worlds.

Many IISS retirees invest their mustering-out money in one of these units,
then arrange to be mustered out on a suitable world and set up a
surface-to-surface or even surface-to-orbit shuttle service. It should be
noted that whilst the 4.5mm composite laminate shell stops many small arms,
operation in combat areas is not advised.

****************************************************************************
********

3.4x1.7x1.7 m air raft (9.8 m3) ; 4.5 mm composite lamitate fast subsonic
shell (0.316 m3, 0.986t, KCr 0.986 ; AF 4, max speed 800 kmh)

80 kN TL9 contragravity (0.24 m3, 0.304t, KCr 0.96 - power demand 0.144 MW
at full)

Basic Life Support (0.05 m3, 0.05t, KCr 3)

2m3 TL9 batteries (2m3, 4t, KCr 4 - 0.8 MW hrs), or 0.255 MW alcohol TL7 IC
engine (0.39 m3, 0.39t, KCr 2) plus 16 hours fuel (1.44 m3, 1.152t ; cost
Cr 5 per liter, using 90 liters per hour at full power)

TL8 Nav Aids and Avionics (0.002 m3, 0.002t, KCr 25)

TL9 Image Enhancement Scope (KCr 1)

2x TL9 Flight Computers (KCr 1)

TL8 500 km radio (0.047 m3, KCr 4.86)

1x Crewstation (7m3, 0.2t, KCr 1)

65 liters internal cargo (0.065 m3, 0.065t)

I believe this craft should be able to use the Helicopter external sling
rule on p24 of FFS2. At KCr 45 or so, I believe these things should be all
over the Imperium - they provide better lift capability than a Chinook
cargo helicopter, are capable of making orbit with a brave enough pilot and
can be packed into 1 dton of cargo space. Hell, this thing should replace a
gun on the Scout mustering out table *grin* Oh, and I calculate it at three
maintainence points, so it should be OK for years before needing a look at
with an electronics and a mechanical toolkit. Incidentally, TL8 worlds have
a per capita income of KC8 a year according to Striker, so one of these
things should cost around 7 years annual salary, or about $140 000 in
modern terms.

You could probably build a bigger version, with internal cargo and
passenger capability, at not much increase in cost or reduction in
performance, but I kept the size to something that could be palletised into
1dton of cargo space.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 22:20:02 -0500
From: "Pat Connaughton" <pconnaught@fiastl.net>
Subject: Re: Underground...

Snip
Sent out a copy of your message to our gaming group and a variety of
responses came back.
1. In view of the time spent underground, what sort of bio-adaption would
have been made in terms of the population's capacity to deal with variation
in tempurature and light. I've been in several underground facilitites,
mines, office complex'es, storage facilities, Norad, etc. and I've noticed
that all of the light levels are roughly identical and the tempuratures the
same. This would probably read as the population over a thousand or so
generations (30,000+ human years) would have gotten very adapted to a single
standard of enviroment. Combine this adaption with the various orbits and
planetary instability commented on in some of the posts to the list and I
think that these people would have a real time ahead.

2. Is this scenario for your PC's to be members of the population dealing
with this? or are they going to be encountering this planet?

I'e got a group of individuals who are vigorously gaming out several
scenarios.
More comments shortly
Thanks
Pat Connaughton
pconnaught@fiastl.net
"It's the only game in town"
ICQ Member # 2535086

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 23:31:28 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: New web site

I've 'homesteaded' a site on Geocities (thanks to those who suggested it),
which should serve as a repository for my deckplans. I currently have no
plans to move the software or vehicles there (from the soon-to-vanish DMCI
site).

Unless you play Space 1889, you will probably only be interested in the
Shadows plans (from the old Double Adventure). These are the same plans
that were screwed up on the Traveller CD (something about file names,
unless Brian fixed it).

www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/9135/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 22:26:48 -0500
From: "Pearson Publishing" <jdpearson@wr.net>
Subject: Re: Roleplay on the list

I'd also have to agree that the amount of gearhead stuff here gets a little 
overwhelming sometimes ... so I just skip what I'm not interested in.  However 
.... It is necessary to answer my players' questions.  Recently the list was 
helpful in justifying my players' question "why do we have to spend Cr 2,000 
each time we jump?"  I got enough good, solid data from the TML to give a 
good answer!

I really enjoy hearing about other GM/players' adventures and campaigns.  I 
designed my website (especially the message board) for that purpose (see 
signature for URL).

We play Traveller _every_ week and it gets a little tough to come up with 
something awesome each and every time.  So ... let's post more of the 
scenario type info!  I'd also ask that anyone with a really good idea post it to 
my message board ... as the board grows I'll archive them (maybe we can 
include them on the Traveller CD someday).




 -- James Pearson
"The purpose of a referee is to present obstacles 
for players to overcome as they go about seeking 
their goals, not to constantly make trouble for them.
This is a very subtle distinction ..."

The Traveller Book, p. 12

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/4089

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 22:35:55 -0500
From: Talisman <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Underground...

Pat Connaughton wrote:

> Snip
> Sent out a copy of your message to our gaming group and a variety of
> responses came back.
> 1. In view of the time spent underground, what sort of bio-adaption would
> have been made in terms of the population's capacity to deal with variation
> in tempurature and light. I've been in several underground facilitites,
> mines, office complex'es, storage facilities, Norad, etc. and I've noticed
> that all of the light levels are roughly identical and the tempuratures the
> same. This would probably read as the population over a thousand or so
> generations (30,000+ human years) would have gotten very adapted to a single
> standard of enviroment. Combine this adaption with the various orbits and
> planetary instability commented on in some of the posts to the list and I
> think that these people would have a real time ahead.

Hadn't thought of that either.

> 2. Is this scenario for your PC's to be members of the population dealing
> with this? or are they going to be encountering this planet?

The PC's are from the planet.

> I'e got a group of individuals who are vigorously gaming out several
> scenarios.
> More comments shortly
> Thanks

Gee, you liked the idea enough to use it...I'm flattered.


> Pat Connaughton
> pconnaught@fiastl.net
> "It's the only game in town"
> ICQ Member # 2535086



- --
My god, it's full of stars!


Http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/4467

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 00:14:41 EDT
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Trader, Bestiary & Wordgen

	The Apple II Trader program is already on the CD-ROM as it so happens. The
Trader program will run on an IBM with a couple of fixes, file access needs to
be modified and as I recall there was one simple software bug in the software
program to be fixed.
	Trader allows a party to traveller in the Spinward Marches in a variety of
starships picking up and dropping off cargo, essentially it's a GM's aid.
There are also a couple of non-published traveller starships to pick from.
There might also be a map of the Solomani Rim included.
	If Paul sends me the other two they will be also.
	These are all CT programs, though Wordgen should apply to any version of
Traveller.


Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 00:27:41 EDT
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: CD-ROM & the UK

	In reference to the CD-ROM and UK costs. At this time I'm willing to accept a
trade in products (generally two BITS/CORE products for the CD).
	However, you need to ask which ones I need first and which ones you might
send (this way I can get a complete set first, while I figure out what I might
end up doing with duplicates :) ).
	This also means I might have some BITS/CORE products for resale in the US
shortly.



Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 01:34:48 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zhodani Astrography

> Chances are that the Imperium doesn't do anything like what we see in the
> game, either. The flat hexagonal map is a paper artifact...
> Once holograms take over display technology, you will likely see "true"
> position starmaps.

Well the canon Imperium does.  Holograms aren't strictly necessary.  Jim V (of
Galactic fame) has a 3D starmap viewer...  there's also chview.  I was
questioning about any canon info.  Anything using jumpspace/j-drives will use
a hexmap if it's Traveller.

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 01:34:49 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zhodani Astrography

> Well, an interesting alternative is to group the hexes into larger
> hexes. It works ok, and will give that "alien" feel when you hand the
> stack of hex shaped charts to the players. :-)
> 
> A subsector is 80 hexes, a sector is 1280.
> 
> So try a hex 11 hexes across (that is, with 5 "rings" of hexes around
> the center hex as your "sub-hexor". That gives 91 hexes. 19 of those
> gives you a center "sub-hexor" with two "rings" of "sub-hexors"
> surrounding it, for a total of 1729 hexes. This "hexor" should fit on a
> piece of hex paper with 24 "rings" around the center hex (for a
> "diameter" of 49 hexes).

Now *that* is pretty neat.  Wanna design a race around that? ; )  Of course,
anyone know what the Terran Confederation used before they met the Vilani?

Gary

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #612
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Monday, June 29 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 613



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Roleplay on the list
Re: Zhodani Astrography
Terran mapping (Was: Zhodani Astrography)
Re: Marc releases "Classic" Trav. Text-Adventures...
re: When Worlds Collide
Re: When Worlds Collide
List of MegaCorporations
Re: Underground...
Re: Zhodani Astrography
Re: List of MegaCorporations
Re: radiators and sensor spoofs
Re: When Worlds Collide
Megatraveller I: The Zhodani Conspiracy
Campaign colour - Vilani board game
Re: Megatraveller I: The Zhodani Conspiracy 
Calling all Gearheads!
An NPC, a world, an adventure seed, an alien, and a fancy gadget
Re: What are skilled crew worth ?
Re: Imperial Scientists...Threat of Menace?
Re: Marc releases "Classic" Trav. Text-Adventures...
PBEMAIL Variant Questions

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 01:34:47 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Roleplay on the list

> OK, so will people scream & moan if I started dumping details of my
> campaign  in construction onto the list?  It's gonna be in CT/MT
> format, mostly, with  mebbe just a *touch* of Striker (original
> version, mind you!!) for spice...

Why not?  While most CT/MT rules specific items mean precisely dirt to me
other than for idea mining, that in itself can be most useful.  Especially
with none of the versions of Traveller in current print.  

My 2 Cr on the whole technobabble detail thing is that certain things (J-drive
the one that comes immediately to mind) by necessity must be kept *officially*
vague, though house rules can go wherever they want (as though they could be
stopped anyways).  This especially holds true in the mixed game/rules
mechanics company that is the tml (until an official version returns to print,
at least).  

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 00:47:58 -0500
From: Talisman <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Zhodani Astrography

TravelrTNE@aol.com wrote:

Well the canon Imperium does.  Holograms aren't strictly necessary.  Jim V (of

> Galactic fame) has a 3D starmap viewer...  there's also chview.  I was
> questioning about any canon info.  Anything using jumpspace/j-drives will use
> a hexmap if it's Traveller.
>
> Gary


URL Please.

- --
My god, it's full of stars!


Http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/4467

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 19:44:54 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Terran mapping (Was: Zhodani Astrography)

From:           	TravelrTNE@aol.com
Date sent:      	Mon, 29 Jun 1998 01:34:49 EDT
Subject:        	Re: Zhodani Astrography

> Now *that* is pretty neat.  Wanna design a race around that? ; )  Of course,
> anyone know what the Terran Confederation used before they met the Vilani?

> Gary

In my upcoming work (unofficial) on the Interstellar Wars the Terran 
Confederation uses the Quadrant. Each quadrant covers roughly four Imperial 
aubsectors (its actually 16 x 16 parsecs, as against 16 x 20). The Quadrant 
remained the standard unit until the Terran Confederation was replaced by the 
Rule of Man. The Rule of Man adopted the Vilani Sector for its mapping 
conventions.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 08:31:12 EDT
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Marc releases "Classic" Trav. Text-Adventures...

In a message dated 98-06-28 00:07:49 EDT, you write:

<< Traveller computer (Apple) software, and he has agreed to allow me to
 release all of them into the public domain.  >>

Technically I have allowed them to be published. They have not become public
domain, which is a different concept.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 08:49:38 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: When Worlds Collide

Leonard Erikson wrote, about lack of cities on the surface:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
What removed them? They'd be buried under quite a bit of frozen
atmosphere, and in the depths of interstellar space, that ice isn't
going anywhere.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The outer blast wave of the supernova - the inhabitants had time to get
out of disintigration range, but not damage range. That's also why they
live deep underground, instead of in much simpler domed cities on the
surface - it took them quite a while to get out of danger, and they planned
for that.

Leonard again:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
If it's moving *that* fast (better than .6 c), it has to have come from
outside the galaxy (or at least from the other side :-). The galaxy is
only a few hundred thousand parsecs across!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
And why not?
Though you'd have some explaining to do as to why the inhabitants were
humanoid, if they came from another galaxy.
The velocity really doesn't matter for purposes of the adventure seed. I was
including it to point out that time for the inhabitants didn't have to match
time for the rest of the universe.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 09:10:48 -0500
From: Talisman <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: When Worlds Collide

Walter Smith wrote:

> The outer blast wave of the supernova - the inhabitants had time to get
> out of disintigration range, but not damage range. That's also why they
> live deep underground, instead of in much simpler domed cities on the
> surface - it took them quite a while to get out of danger, and they planned
> for that.
>

That was the general thought I had.  Some sort of massive stellar accident.

> And why not?
> Though you'd have some explaining to do as to why the inhabitants were
> humanoid, if they came from another galaxy.
> The velocity really doesn't matter for purposes of the adventure seed. I was
> including it to point out that time for the inhabitants didn't have to match
> time for the rest of the universe.
>
> Walt Smith

Well, I set the game in another galaxy.  Or use the pat answer of blaming it on
the ancients.



- --
My god, it's full of stars!


Http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/4467

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 17:14:04 +0200
From: "Mark Seemann" <dko3835@vip.cybercity.dk>
Subject: List of MegaCorporations

One of my players asked me if there's a list of all the MegaCorporations in the
Traveller universe. We know there are 13 Imperial corporations and 13
non-Imperial (Referee's Companion p. 41). I know of all the Imperial ones, as
well as these non-Imperial:

Transstar - Solomani
Tlasayerlahei - Aslan
Reastirlao - Aslan
Wyaroaer - Aslan
Otaiokeh - Aslan

But what about the other 8? Anyone knows anything about them? Their names,
alignment, business areas, etc.?

Mark Seemann
mark@dk-online.dk (home)
mse@oticon.dk (work)
http://www2.dk-online.dk/users/mark_seemann

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 08:59:05 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Underground...

Pat Connaughton wrote:
> 
> Snip
> Sent out a copy of your message to our gaming group and a variety of
> responses came back.
> 1. In view of the time spent underground, what sort of bio-adaption would
> have been made in terms of the population's capacity to deal with variation
> in tempurature and light. I've been in several underground facilitites,
> mines, office complex'es, storage facilities, Norad, etc. and I've noticed
> that all of the light levels are roughly identical and the tempuratures the
> same. This would probably read as the population over a thousand or so
> generations (30,000+ human years) would have gotten very adapted to a single
> standard of enviroment. 

It doesn't even take all that much confinement...a friend of mine pulled
Peace Corps duty in Jamaica...average temp something like 76F +/- maybe
5 degrees. They had a 'cold wave' one winter, temperature got down to
the low 60's. Everyone was running around in coats and sweaters, and
even he was cold (and he grew up in Prescott, Arizona..north country,
regular snowy winters).

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 09:01:37 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Zhodani Astrography

In mail you write:

>> Well, an interesting alternative is to group the hexes into larger
>> hexes. It works ok, and will give that "alien" feel when you hand the
>> stack of hex shaped charts to the players. :-)
>> 
>> A subsector is 80 hexes, a sector is 1280.
>> 
>> So try a hex 11 hexes across (that is, with 5 "rings" of hexes around
>> the center hex as your "sub-hexor". That gives 91 hexes. 19 of those
>> gives you a center "sub-hexor" with two "rings" of "sub-hexors"
>> surrounding it, for a total of 1729 hexes. This "hexor" should fit on a
>> piece of hex paper with 24 "rings" around the center hex (for a
>> "diameter" of 49 hexes).
>
> Now *that* is pretty neat.  Wanna design a race around that? ; )  Of course,
> anyone know what the Terran Confederation used before they met the Vilani?

I'll lay you odds that the Hivers figure things this wat. Being
hexapods, 6 directions and hex shapes out to come naturally. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 09:29:22 +0000
From: edjs@bitslayer.net
Subject: Re: List of MegaCorporations

> From:          "Mark Seemann" <dko3835@vip.cybercity.dk>
> Date:          Mon, 29 Jun 1998 17:14:04 +0200
> 
> But what about the other 8 [Megacorps]? Anyone knows anything about them? 
> Their names, alignment, business areas, etc.?

LBB-8 Merchant Prince mentions 6 of the remaing 8, naming 2 of them:

Star Patterns Trading: one of five Hiver megacorps, and is the major Hiver 
trader with the Imperium. It is a multi-function megacorp, vertically oriented 
- - it owns and operates companies which preform all necessary activities, from 
collecting the raw materials to manufacturing the goods to transporting and 
merchandising them.
   Home Port: Erest
   Territory: The Hive Federation

Priantqlovr Drafr ("Military Star Shipping"): Zhodani megacorp that dominates 
transport and shipping within the border province of Iadr Nsobl.  Owned by a 
Zhodani noble, enjoys a permanent military subsidy, and operates as a reseve 
arm of the Navy.
   Home Port: Chronor
   Territory: Trailing sectors of Zhodani Consulate

It is noted that Vargr megacorps do not exist.


- --
Edward Swatschek
edjs@bitslayer.net - edjs@mindlink.net - ICQ 2684960
http://home.mindlink.net/edjs/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 09:28:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: radiators and sensor spoofs

Buston, John writes:
> Does the Larry Niven idea of a high temperature superconductor (at least
> 100 degrees centigrade) have any value here? He gives superconductors
> the property of having the same temperature along their entire length.
> This should make an excellent radiator. Does this have any basis in
> reality?
No.  You can have materials with immense thermal conductivity, but it has
relatively little to do with superconduction.  The major effect on radiators
would be to make them weigh less.
> 
> In order to minimise the heat you have to radiate, it would make sense
> to avoid taking on heat from the local star(s). So why not install a
> star-shade(tm).  This is just a *large* disc of Reflec on an insulated
> stick that you point so as to shade you from the radiation from the
> local star [picture a ship holding a large umbrella :) ]. The
> majority(?) of the gamma radiation hitting the disc is reflected, the
> remainder is absorbed and re-emitted in random directions. Therefore
> only a tiny amount of the stars radiation reaches you, by re-emission or
> convection down the stick. This would also greatly reduce stellar
> interference with your sensors, increasing their range and sensitivity.
> Makes EVA much safer too.
Reflective shields like that have a long history of being used in space flight.
I suspect that the standard hull coatings (which can change color) can probably
reduce absorbed heat by 80-90% just by shifting color to white, though.  Also,
the major heat sources on Traveller ships tend to be things other than absorbed
energy.
Incidentally, reducing heat absorbtion this way increases your visual signature
by +1 (going from 99% black to 80-90% white).
> 
> By the way how do you radiate waste heat in Jump Space when surrounded
> by a bubble of Hydrogen? Wouldn't the Hydrogen reach plasma
> temperatures, and melt the hull, if used to dump waste heat for seven
> days? Also heating it would excite the gas and cause it to disperse, no?

You have to assume that J-space is capable of acting as a heat sink.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 09:08:52 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: When Worlds Collide

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erikson wrote, about lack of cities on the surface:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> What removed them? They'd be buried under quite a bit of frozen
> atmosphere, and in the depths of interstellar space, that ice isn't
> going anywhere.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> The outer blast wave of the supernova - the inhabitants had time to get
> out of disintigration range, but not damage range. That's also why they
> live deep underground, instead of in much simpler domed cities on the
> surface - it took them quite a while to get out of danger, and they planned
> for that.

This has some problems. For one, there won't be any atmosphere left. So
the surface will be a vacuum, even  after it settles into the new
orbit. Second, to survive at all, they have to be more than 10 AU out
when the core collapses. Otherwise, the neutrino flux is lethal. And if
they are *that* far out, the blast damage won't be as bad.

Also, any habitable world will become *uninhabitable* long before the
star goes supernova. That's because the star leaves the main sequence
and becomes a red giant, and in the process expands until it fills the
former habitable zone, but there's not enough to for life to start (or
adapt) on the planets in the *new* habitable zone. 

> Leonard again:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> If it's moving *that* fast (better than .6 c), it has to have come from
> outside the galaxy (or at least from the other side :-). The galaxy is
> only a few hundred thousand parsecs across!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> And why not?
> Though you'd have some explaining to do as to why the inhabitants were
> humanoid, if they came from another galaxy.
> The velocity really doesn't matter for purposes of the adventure seed. I was
> including it to point out that time for the inhabitants didn't have to match
> time for the rest of the universe.

Well, this gives a somewhat more plausible explanation than the
supernova. They can be fleeing a core explosion, or a galactic
collision or some other such messy effect. 

Then the missing cities can be battle damage due to the various worlds
fighting over who gets to put their people on the 'world ship'.

This even explains why they didn't use jump drive. They may have known
about it, but it's pretty much *useless for intergalactic travel. So
they had to develop a realspace drive capable of moving a planet.

BTW, I'm *not* going to ask what they are using for energy, as the
energy requirements for going from near c to a stable orbit are on the
order of what you'd get by converting the *entire* planet to energy.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 09:23:23 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Megatraveller I: The Zhodani Conspiracy

Finally having both the software, enough spare disk space *and* a color
monitor all at the same time, I tried out the game.

I lost one party and most of another before I *began* to figure out
combat. Please tell me that the game is sensitive to the speed of your
computer. Otherwise, I think the ground combat *sucks*. 

I also had fun when I went to buy something. When a game has the
storekeeper ask "will there be anything else" I expect it to want a
yes/no answer *not* the escape key or right mouse button.

The rules *really* could have used some examples. 

Anybody want to warn me about other pitfalls?

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 18:06:22 +0100
From: Rob Day <rob@glisten.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Campaign colour - Vilani board game

Hi,

In an attempt to add some colour to Vilani society I posted the rules
to a traditional (what else would it be? :) Vilani game to the
TravLang list last month.

What with the talk of the desire for some non-gearhead stuff to be
posted to the TML, I thought I'd make it available to everyone.

If you're interested, the rules are available at

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/2555/

Regards,

Rob.
- -- 
Rob Day
rob@glisten.demon.co.uk

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 13:28:03 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Megatraveller I: The Zhodani Conspiracy 

> Finally having both the software, enough spare disk space *and* a color
> monitor all at the same time, I tried out the game.

I've got it here, but haven't played it hardly at all.  It's a bit harder now, 
since I'm 99% Linux here.

> The rules *really* could have used some examples. 

You read the book, right?

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 13:45:12 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Calling all Gearheads!

Hi guys!

I am in a bind for time and thought some of you might like a challenge...

I need to "grow" the Sydkai class cruiser from 2000td to 3000td and make a
few other changes.  I also need to do something similar to the 2000td Zho
Strike Cruiser.  Some of the changes are non-standard to fit the scenario
and flavor of my game, so if you are interested, please drop me a line at
the following address and I'll forward the requirements to you.  

mailto:kurt@blazenet.net

Thanks!

Kurt Feltenberger

“We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a
habit.”
- --- Aristotle ---

mailto:kurt@blazenet.net

------------------------------

Date: 29 Jun 1998 13:55 EDT
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: An NPC, a world, an adventure seed, an alien, and a fancy gadget

NPC

Bilante Disen: Mercht/9 1st_Ofc 79B978 age 60 Cr7100 
astro-2 shotgun-2 vacc-2

Bilante was born in Core, and was raised in Gushemege.  His father
was the author of _Socio-political Entropy in the Post-Frontier sectors_,
University of Ukshu press.

Bilante was a fast thinker, and decided to abandon college and
join the Merchants.  After spending 36 years with the Merchants,
he retired a 1st Officer and went travelling in the Spinward
Marches.  He had first experienced the Marches on his fifth
year with the Merchants, and grew to like the fronteir feel.
He keeps in contact with friends, traders, smugglers, and
brokers on several worlds, but lately has been concentrating
more and more on Treece.  He hopes to dabble in local politics
and pull enough strings to set up a trading post in the asteroid 
belt there.

World

Treece        2311 D232866-8    Na Po              610 Im M1 V
A small and insignificant world in the Rhylanor subsector of the
Spinward Marches, Treece is under the administration of Inthe.
It has 600 million inhabitants, a thin atmosphere, and more land
than water.  The Thricians rely on neigboring worlds to supply 
food and equipment; in return, Treece supplies raw materials for
Industrial worlds to process.  Treece's asteroid belt has indications
of having significant lanthanum and water deposits, as well as
crystal deposits formed by some ancient volcanic activity from some
undetermined world.

Though few regular passengers visit, Treece has quite a bit of
unrecorded trade activity.  The best starport is the Imperial 'D' 
class Dukulal Down, which has some outbuildings and usually has fuel.
However, there is little incentive to monitor ships in orbit, 
since it isn't useful for hardly anything and has only a low-pop
TL8 infrastructure.  People are pretty much left alone here.  The
only exception is that taxes tend to be a bit harsh, most of which
go to Inthe to support its starport upgrade fund.  Thus has an
underground economy maintained a popular source of trade.

Adventure Seed

Our heroes are happened upon by a Mr. Bilante Disen, an ex-merchant
and small businessman, who promises free fuel and double the
normal freight costs for transporting goods to and from his small
trading post in the Treece asteroid belt.  He later asks them to
perform a preemptive strike on a crooked merchant who plans to
ransack his outpost.

If they help him, he will later tell them about the Spinners and
ask them to find a mature spinner.  Mature spinners would fetch
quite a price on the black market, and Mr. Disen is willing to share 
the profit with the players.

Contact!  Spinners (Echinodermus Thricia)

Spinners are creatures resembling the echinoderm family, with a
body encased in a tough shell and surrounded by a couple dozen
spines called 'probes', which are composed of tiny interlocking
units of the same material as the shell.  These spines permit
movement; they are spaced at strategic points to allow the 
young spinner to roll along the ground, or if need be to spin 
along its central axis at speeds up to 10m/s in thin atmospheres.
Mature spinners have not been examined as of yet, so there is
no knowledge of their locomotive abilities, if any.

Spinners are small.  Young spinners' shells are somewhat clamshell
shaped, about the size of the palm of your hand.  Their spines
are perhaps 12cm long; and though they are thin spines, they are
yet extremely strong: the tiny hooks on the ends of the spines
can hold with great force, and will infect if they are broken off
in an animal's skin.  The bacteria that live on the host spinner's
spines are often quite adaptable to human hair and nails, though
extremely uncomfortable to the human host.  Mature spinners are
more or less spherical and are probably around 12cm in radius; 
they have the nickname "purple basketball".  Basketballs have
very tough shells with a host-variable gas permeability, allowing
the creature to survive in very thin atmospheres indeed.  The
spinner's spines seem to be recessed in the adult; however, it is
assumed that they remain functional.  In the least, the Basketball
is able to borrow in sand slowly.  It is said that they burrow
partway into the sand to extract nutrients.

Spinners are rumored to live in small colonies on one of the
worlds in the Treece system.  The rumors are vague as to the
actual world, varying from Treece itself to some of the colder
worlds in the system outback.

A Fancy Gadget: The Turtle Shell

In a storage cabinet in an alien base on Fulacin lies a turtle-shell
shaped artifact.  1-meter long, 70 cm tall, covered with translucent 
knobby things, slits, and indented surfaces, and made with very durable 
looking material, one would be hard-pressed to guess what it is.  However, 
its outer skin may indicate to the trained eye that it is a spaceworthy 
object.  A magneto-resonant image, or some high-tech correspondant, 
will turn up a strange interior, where every device seems adapted to do
three different functions, and redundancy is the buzzword here.
There are coils that resemble gravity-related systems, and a dense
box that, if the players know what they are looking at, might suggest
an antimatter power source.  And there are gas or fluid processors of 
some kind.

This beastie is a remote system scout.  With extremely-long duration
and densely-packed charge storage units, this scout can store enough
charge to power its jump drive.  It can gather raw materials, generate
energy, jump into a system, gather information about a system, and
jump back out to the next system (or return home).

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 10:59:35 -0700
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: What are skilled crew worth ?

At 09:20 PM 6/28/98 +0000, you wrote:
>As part of my long-term trade project, I'm looking at what value high-skill
>crew can add to various ship systems.

A flip side - if the standard idea that the crew are usually the owners of
a free trader, while they tend to be major sub owners of subsidized
merchants, then the crew as a whole needs to make as much as they would if
they just invested the money, more or less.  After all, if they could just
sell it and retire, then many would, leaving only the stupid and the cheap
as ship owners.

Clearly, it will not be exact, but in the main, people make about the
income appropriate for the assets needed to support them.

Scott

Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 10:50:54 -0700
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Imperial Scientists...Threat of Menace?

At 12:21 PM 6/28/98 -0400, you wrote:
>PE: One ship? (laughs and takes a sip of coffee)
>
>General: It's a lab ship sir!
>
>PE:Spppppllluuuuttttt!!!!(Coffee is all over General) Send a
>communication immediately! We surrender!

I am rereading H. Beam Piper's Empire collection.  In "A Slave is a Slave",
it is mentioned that the standard "Welcome back" team from the Empire is a
battle group consisting of one ship of the line, two cruisers, and four
destroyers.  The ship of the line is just under a mile in diameter, the two
cruisers are three thousand foot globes, and the destroyers have no size
given, but I would bet that they are in the thousand to fifteen hundred
foot range.

For the record, this is a total volume of

SOL: r = 2640 ft = 804 m, v = 2.2e9 m^3 = 156Mdt
Cruiser: r = 1500 ft = 457 m, v = 4.0e8 m^3 = 28MdT x2
Destroyer: r=750 ft = 228 m, v = 1.2e7 m^3 = 853KdT x4

For a total of 215 million displacement tons.

They were plated with collapsed matter, and could withstand nuclear
bombardment with little harm, and no nuclear dampers.  Anything less would
hardly scratch the paint.  Their primary armaments were guns and nuclear
command missiles.  I would not want to be on the other end of this battle
fleet - give them a short course in nuke pumped x ray lasers, and there is
little they could not do to the Imperial battle fleets.

All of the former Piper readers in my game snickered when they ran across
the Broadsword.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 15:08:27 -0400
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Marc releases "Classic" Trav. Text-Adventures...

CardSharks@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 98-06-28 00:07:49 EDT, you write:
>
> << Traveller computer (Apple) software, and he has agreed to allow me to
>  release all of them into the public domain.  >>
>
> Technically I have allowed them to be published. They have not become public
> domain, which is a different concept.
>
> Marc

  WTG, Marc.  Never abandon your trademarks.  License them only.
They're the only form of intellectual property that doesn't expire so long
as you use it, assuming you're not immortal for copyright purposes.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 21:23:09 +0000
From: "Jens.Maskus" <Jens.Maskus@stud.uni-hannover.de>
Subject: PBEMAIL Variant Questions

Hi,

i want to start an PBEMAIL here in Germany, possible First of October. I'm thinking of a variant, 
as following: There is ONLY ONE PC, which is played by ALL Players. One Player will give me the 
groups respond. Everybody will get the answer. I think it is clear, that this form can only be 
played by a small group of Players to short cut the player's EMAIL discussions, from which the 
groups answers follows. I think, using this variant, i will avoid possible paranoia and group 
selfdestruction actions between the players, because the direction can be directed by the 
'majority' (only got two players yet ;-). And if one Player is quitting, hopefully the others can 
play further without great disruption. New players can read the story and beginn there discussions 
with the rest of the group providing new ideas. The hardest job will be for the group speaker to 
provide me with a clear answer.

My questions are:

Has anybody did it before?

Does anybody have ideas, links, sources for an possible _ONE_ Character Adventure? I think every 
Traveller source i own has been generated to be used as group Adv. (exceptions: Marooned Alone, 
some 76 Patrons, possible have forgotten some in my Traveller Libary!)

Any other suggestions!

Thanks, Jens

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #613
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Monday, June 29 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 614



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

New web site
BITS/CORE products  was re: CD-ROM & the UK
Re: When Worlds Collide
Re: Armed merchants
Re: New web site
Re: Paper Trails and Pirates
Re: When Worlds Collide
Re: Megatraveller I: The Zhodani Conspiracy
Re: When Worlds Collide
Re CT Text adventures
Addition to the my web site
"Letter of Marque" Update
Re: When Worlds Collide
Re: Piracy and the late 3I
Re: Imperial Tax Practices
Re: "Letter of Marque" Update
Re: Hello and a question
Re: Local defense budget
Re: Local defense budget
Re: When Worlds Collide

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 16:11:11 -0700
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: New web site

>
> Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior) types :
> I've 'homesteaded' a site on Geocities (thanks to those who suggested it), 
> which should serve as a repository for my deckplans. I currently have no 
> plans to move the software or vehicles there (from the soon-to-vanish DMCI 
> site).
> Unless you play Space 1889, you will probably only be interested in the 
> Shadows plans (from the old Double Adventure). These are the same plans 
> that were screwed up on the Traveller CD (something about file names, 
> unless Brian fixed it).
> www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/9135/



No more vehicle archives?  Mind if I host 'em at the Traveller GearHead Ring
site?




- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
Joan of Arc: the patron saint of welders http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 20:25:35 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: BITS/CORE products  was re: CD-ROM & the UK

 Kagehira@aol.com wrote:

"	In reference to the CD-ROM and UK costs. At this time I'm willing to accept a
trade in products (generally two BITS/CORE products for the CD).
	However, you need to ask which ones I need first and which ones you might
send (this way I can get a complete set first, while I figure out what I might
end up doing with duplicates :) ).
	This also means I might have some BITS/CORE products for resale in the US
shortly."

Which helps solve the problem of transfering funds for us UK Travellers...

However, if you can't wait for Bryan to get in BITS/CORE products, try
contacting Leisure Games in London UK who will mail order.

Their web site is

http://www.btinternet.com/~leisuregames/

they take all the big credit cards and their current catalogue lists the
following products:

101 Cargos (probably 2nd edition so different from JTAS25)
101 Lifeforms
101 Plots
101 Rendezvous (locations)
101 Travellers (npcs)

BITS is currently trying to secure a US distributer, but things are going
slowly....

As every, Rob Prior's Infini-V is available from my site (URL in sig file).

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 13:13:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: When Worlds Collide

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:

>In mail you write:
>> Leonard Erikson wrote, about lack of cities on the surface:
>> The outer blast wave of the supernova - the inhabitants had time to get
>> out of disintigration range, but not damage range. That's also why they
>> live deep underground, instead of in much simpler domed cities on the
>> surface - it took them quite a while to get out of danger, and they 
>>planned  for that.

>This has some problems. For one, there won't be any atmosphere left. So
>the surface will be a vacuum, even  after it settles into the new
>orbit. Second, to survive at all, they have to be more than 10 AU out
>when the core collapses. Otherwise, the neutrino flux is lethal. And if
>they are *that* far out, the blast damage won't be as bad.

Lethal; neurtrino flux? I thought those things were so non-interactive
that they were totally harmless?

>> If it's moving *that* fast (better than .6 c), it has to have come from
>> outside the galaxy (or at least from the other side :-). The galaxy is
>> only a few hundred thousand parsecs across!

How about it's fleeing a supernova from an isolated extragalactic star? If
it was in the galaxy it would be silly go go more than 6 or 7 parsecs
because you'd find a perfectly reasonable star to orbit by that time. Even
if being that close to a supernova would be a problem, you could still
find one within 20 parsecs, and going at say 0.6C this would only take 100
years. 

However, what if it's way out in intergalactic space?  If it's 1,000
parsecs out the journey would take 5,000 years, plenty of time... 
 
>Well, this gives a somewhat more plausible explanation than the
>supernova. They can be fleeing a core explosion, or a galactic
>collision or some other such messy effect. 

I like this one.  This would even allow there to be a number of different
species on the world, as folks from different world all hitch a ride. 

>Then the missing cities can be battle damage due to the various 
>worlds fighting over who gets to put their people on the 'world 
>ship'.  This even explains why they didn't use jump drive. They 
>may have known about it, but it's pretty much *useless for 
>intergalactic travel. 

Or, after 5,000 years and a huge freeze & thaw they may simply have been
crushed by all those frozen gasses. 

>BTW, I'm *not* going to ask what they are using for energy, as the
>energy requirements for going from near c to a stable orbit are on the
>order of what you'd get by converting the *entire* planet to energy.

Only one option really, zero point energy.  Everyone in the Imperium and
beyond would *love* to get their hands on that secret. 

Comments?


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 13:35:06 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Armed merchants

Mon, 29 Jun 1998 00:42:22 +0200 (METDST), Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
>>Well, I don't see it as being a matter of man-years.  If the ship did a good
>>job of not leaving enough information to follow, then it won't matter how
>>much time they spend.  If it didn't, and that ship is selected to be checked,
>>then I would say it would take a man-week or so (and a month or two of real
>>time).

>I fail to understand why you're suddenly talking about the ship trying not
>to leave behind enough information to follow.

I've been talking about not leaving behind enough info to be caught.
That includes not only if the information is sufficient to identify
them, but also to catch up with them.

>. If you think back, you'll
>recall that we were talking about a ship "swimming with the fishes", doing
>normal merchant operations while waiting for an opportune target. Can you
>explain how a ship can perform normal merchant operations without leaving
>a trail of people that has done business with them?

Yes, but you are assuming that if you identify illegal activity on
on system, you will then be able to trace that ship on every other
world.  This gets back into "fool proof records" and kind of records
(do you know where they went after they left?  If not, you have
to check different destinations, increasing the complexity cost
of the operation).

>Even without assuming
>that the Imperium taxes passengers and freight (Obviously, if it does, any
>ship involved in normal merchant operations will leave a paper (electron)
>trail that goes up to Subsector level at the very least. (In which case we're
>propably talking man-hours to follow the track). But just taking on a
>passenger or delivering a ton of freight will leave behind witnesses).

Well, I never suggested man-years, you did.  I also don't see what
a trail "that goes up to the subsector level" means.  If you think
they are forwarded to the subsector headquarters, it could go
either way.  It depends on whether they want to bother with
info for each ship.  For antipiracy efforts I think you are
a lot better off processing the info on planet rather then
shipping to HQ and have it looked at weeks later.

Witnesses can be valuable in tracking criminals, but if they were
that foolproof the most wanted list in the US wouldn't exist.

>>If it does take a few man years, it won't be a problem.  If this is a way
>>of detecting who is a pirate, then you have to go through every single
>>ship's papers to be sure of catching the pirates. At a few man-years on
>>each, that will add up fast.

>You get a piracy report. The minimum information you have on the pirate
>will depend on whether the pirate steals the ship or not and several
>other factors, but at the very least you can jump in a couple of scouts
>a suitable number of light-weeks away and get some idea of its size
>(If the victim got off a radio broadcast, or if the pirate only takes the
>cargo) you have a heck of a lot more than that, though it is canonical
>that emission signatures can be faked). At the very least you'll have a
>pretty good idea about its size. You run a check on all ships of the
>appropiate size range that could physically have been in that system at
>that time.

Unless he does wilderness refueling.

>Just comparing starport logs of departure and arrival dates
>will eliminate most candidate.

Ship size is a pretty thin reed to catch a pirate on.  With
standard hulls, there are a lot of ships in the 200-600 tone range.

>The only chance the
>pirate has is to run far and fast. He certainly won't be able to go back to
>running with the fish.

Well, this gets back to being able to change your identity, which
is also in dispute.

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 13:36:12 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: New web site

At 04:11 PM 6/29/98 -0700, you wrote:

>No more vehicle archives?  Mind if I host 'em at the Traveller GearHead Ring
>site?

I'm converting them over for the Gridtech site.
- --

Douglas Berry
dberry@hooked.net
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry
Domo Arigato, Mr Roboto...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 13:41:56 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Paper Trails and Pirates

Sun, 28 Jun 1998 12:12:07, Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
>The point is how does the pirate know if they have spent enough on covering
>their paper trail ?

They don't.  That is why it is risky and isn't done by everyone
and their brother.

>One nice thing about such 'soft kills' is you get to quietly arrest the
>crew of the ship, and then the cops are in an excellent position to extract
>co-operation from those people. Beats duking it out in deep space.

How do you know you have them all and the rest don't run with the ship?

>>Well, we weren't talking about gangs.

>We are talking about a pirate, a base and a fence. Catch one and your odds
>on getting the other two are decent.

Well, "merchant pirates" don't have bases and the fence probably doesn't
even know their real identitites.  (Though, yes there would be
_some_ risk of fencing being able to rat on pirates.  That would
make the crime risking buy not impossible like many crimes today).


____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 13:49:06 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: When Worlds Collide

John R. Snead wrote:
> 
> Lethal; neurtrino flux? I thought those things were so non-interactive
> that they were totally harmless?

I suspect that the usually correct Leonard meant 'neutron' flux, most
decidedly not harmless!
 
> 
> How about it's fleeing a supernova from an isolated extragalactic star? If
> it was in the galaxy it would be silly go go more than 6 or 7 parsecs
> because you'd find a perfectly reasonable star to orbit by that time. Even
> if being that close to a supernova would be a problem, you could still
> find one within 20 parsecs, and going at say 0.6C this would only take 100
> years.
>
> However, what if it's way out in intergalactic space?  If it's 1,000
> parsecs out the journey would take 5,000 years, plenty of time...
>

Oooh, that would set up all sorts of interesting sociological
structures...these people could be TL-16, jump 6. So what? They could
never _get_ anywhere with it. Even Gramps would have a problem with that
1000 parsec first step. That sets up all sorts of interesting
possibilities.
 
> Only one option really, zero point energy.  Everyone in the Imperium and
> beyond would *love* to get their hands on that secret.

And how are they going to get it? _I_ sure wouldn't be the first scout
to jump in-system after such an impressive display of power... (my PC
Ricardo might, but _I_ wouldn't ;->

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 16:53:36 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Megatraveller I: The Zhodani Conspiracy

>Finally having both the software, enough spare disk space *and* a color
>monitor all at the same time, I tried out the game.
>
>I lost one party and most of another before I *began* to figure out
>combat. Please tell me that the game is sensitive to the speed of your
>computer. Otherwise, I think the ground combat *sucks*.

That was a looooong time ago, but I bet you need to slow down your
computer.  Have you heard of "MOSLO.EXE"?  Let me know if not.

>I also had fun when I went to buy something. When a game has the
>storekeeper ask "will there be anything else" I expect it to want a
>yes/no answer *not* the escape key or right mouse button.
>
>The rules *really* could have used some examples.
>
>Anybody want to warn me about other pitfalls?

I thought making money was too easy.  Once I figured that out it was a
breeze to finish.

For a similar good time on a classic game look for Sentinel Worlds.
Similar and traveller like, butt harder to solve as I recall.

Pete


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 14:59:02 -0700
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: When Worlds Collide

At 01:49 PM 6/29/98 -0700, you wrote:
>John R. Snead wrote:
>> 
>> Lethal; neurtrino flux? I thought those things were so non-interactive
>> that they were totally harmless?
>
>I suspect that the usually correct Leonard meant 'neutron' flux, most
>decidedly not harmless!

Actually, the neutrino flux is quite dangerous near a supernova.  Remember,
according to most theories, at least the ones I have seen, something on the
order of a third the energy produced by the reaction goes off in the form
of neutrinos.  Further, they escape the core immediately (in essence) which
causes a dramatic pressure drop, a gravitational collapse, and all sorts of
other effects.

ISTR, though this is a stretch, that the neutrino blast is what shreds the
outer layer of the star.

Neutrinos have a very small chance of reacting, but it is nonzero.  The
mean free path is something comfortably longer than a planet, but enough of
them going through a point will cause some to react in a dangerous manner.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 15:26:50 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re CT Text adventures

Marc releasing the CT Text adventures makes me glad I still have an Apple
IIGS... also, I'll port them to Chipmunk basic, if I can... it is pretty
close to applesoft.

please post the URL for them ASAP.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 17:06:05 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Addition to the my web site

I found those old ship designs on the TML-CD, as well as my old posts.
I've posted them on my web site at 

http://www.u.arizona.edu/~bjohnson/tadven.html

my main trav page is at

http://www.u.arizona.edu/~bjohnson/traveller.html

For those of you who are interested, the cover page for The tender was
done with Strata Vision3D v.4.0, a really nice commercial 3-D design app
for the Mac. Strata is selling it for $10 for a CD with the program, and
manuals in pdf format on the disk.

It's a version back from their current version (They apparently had a
PILE of cd's made for some OEM deal) but it's a sight better than the
other stuff I've found as cheap.

Don't judge it by my work, BTW ;-, Vision3D is what the _other_ Miller's
(Robyn and Rand) used to create Myst.

get it at 

http://www.strata.com/html/vision4.0.html

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 18:34:15 -0700
From: Sanders <timmon@primenet.com>
Subject: "Letter of Marque" Update

Argh! I just knew it was going to happen. LOM is sitting here waiting to
go...but the printer still needs two more days to finish up the Insert. I
will be out of town all week (leaving for the airport in 1/2 hour),
returning on Sunday, and they *will* ship Monday the 6th of July. 

There is a semi-valid reason for this delay - at the last minute I decided
to go with color (well - black and red ink) covers for the inserts on all
the autographed issues of LOM - the printers color copier threw a fit over
the weekend, but all is working fine now - just delayed everything by two
days.

Sorry for the delay people. I hope you'll all understand and cut me some
slack on this. 

BTW - Joseph Lockett - Does your order still stand? I haven't received a
replacement check yet. Just thought I ask.

Thanks,
Paul Sanders
timmon@primenet.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 21:11:40 -0500
From: Talisman <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: When Worlds Collide

Bruce Johnson wrote:

<SNIP>


> And how are they going to get it? _I_ sure wouldn't be the first scout
> to jump in-system after such an impressive display of power... (my PC
> Ricardo might, but _I_ wouldn't ;->
>

lol

> --
> Bruce Johnson
> University of Arizona
> College of Pharmacy
> Information Technology Group



- --
My god, it's full of stars!


Http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/4467

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 04:23:37 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Piracy and the late 3I

William F. Hostman writes:

>I agree with Hans' points about IMPERIAL NAVY protection being based upon
>trade volume.

You must be thinking about someone else. I believe that the Imperial Navy
would want to prevent piracy anywhere in the Imperium _regardless_ of the
economic aspects and that only lack of resources would prevent them. I also
believe that the role of the Imperial Navy in regards to piracy suppression
in the CT publications involves a discrepancy: Canonically they have the
will to suppress pirates. Thus their failure to do so must be due to lack
of resources. Yet an analysis of canonical Imperial Navy forces indicates
(to me) that they _do_ have the means available (at least in peacetime).
Thus their failure to suppress piracy must be due to lack of will.

What I do believe is that private enforcement measures (which would be
based on trade volume) alone should be enough to reduce piracy to a level
far below that portrayed in CT sources.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 04:39:39 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Imperial Tax Practices

Steven Hudson writes:

>>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
>...
>>Indeed, if Imperial tax practices is in any way like the practices of its
>>successor, the Regency (something I would consider _very_ likely), then
>>every passenger and every ton of cargo will be taxed and thus generate a
>>paper trail.
> 
>  That brings up the question of how applicable the RSB taxation description
>(p. 7) is to the earlier 3I. Admittedly it doesn't say that any of those tax
>bases are innovations, and further I'll assume that the author did check with
>other GDW staff for ideas.

IMO you could argue both ways because either way you get a discrepancy. If
Regency taxation of passengers and freight is an innovation, then Regency
transportation costs should not be the same as Imperial. OTOH, if Imperial
tax practices resembles the Regency's, the life support rules in
_Beltstrike_ is wrong.

After thinking it over my preference would be to change the life support
rules and costs (a revised version of my alternate life support rules
based on the assumption that half the official costs are a Crimp1000 tax
will be posted soon) AND remove said Imperial tax retroactively, lowering
M1100 transportation costs. The main reason for this would be to reduce
the Imperial interest in tramp freighters, which would be a good thing
from a RPG perspective.

>I guess as a CT person I'd have to ask whether TNE players felt that TNE
>material (and the RSB in particular) was accurate enough to be applied to
>the preceding game settings.

I'm a CT person, and I was impressed with the Regency Sourcebook[*]. I've
been mining it for ideas for M1100 (extrapolating backwards).

[*] I am a bit worried about the population increases in RS. If those
    increases are representative of the whole Imperial era, the whole
    history of the Traveller Universe is in trouble. 
 

      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 22:39:32 -0400
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: "Letter of Marque" Update

Not a problem - I eagerly await...

- - Bill



At 09:30 PM 6/29/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Argh! I just knew it was going to happen. LOM is sitting here waiting to
>go...but the printer still needs two more days to finish up the Insert. I
>will be out of town all week (leaving for the airport in 1/2 hour),
>returning on Sunday, and they *will* ship Monday the 6th of July. 
>
>There is a semi-valid reason for this delay - at the last minute I decided
>to go with color (well - black and red ink) covers for the inserts on all
>the autographed issues of LOM - the printers color copier threw a fit over
>the weekend, but all is working fine now - just delayed everything by two
>days.
>
>Sorry for the delay people. I hope you'll all understand and cut me some
>slack on this. 
>
>BTW - Joseph Lockett - Does your order still stand? I haven't received a
>replacement check yet. Just thought I ask.
>
>Thanks,
>Paul Sanders
>timmon@primenet.com
> 

Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 04:52:46 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Hello and a question

Anders Backman writes:

>Look in your Traveller book regarding TL of a planet.
>The maximum TL that can be LOCALLY PRODUCED.

Unfortunately that can't be true in all cases, since the TU abounds in
planets with too small a population to sustain its TL. So IMTU the
planetary TL indicates the level that most of the population live at.
In many cases this will come to the same thing, as using locally
produced equipment will be cheaper than using imported stuff, so the
middle and lower classes will all be using locally products. But in
some cases everybody use imports. Mostly this would be low-population
worlds whose economy is tied to a planet with that TL (mining colonies,
scientific outposts, etc.).


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 05:04:35 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Local defense budget

Robert Eaglestone writes:

>1. I think Hans hit the nail on the head when he mentioned tying
>   system defense to interstellar commerce.

That wasn't me. System defenses would IMO depend on population production
(the RUs from _Pocket Empires_), which would determine how much the locals
can afford if they want to spend it, modified by a percentage showing how
much they want to spend. I use the 3% figure from _Striker_ for Imperial
worlds. 

The amount of interstellar commerce would also be a factor, not to
determine system defenses, but to determine commerce protection. Both the
political pressure put on the Imperial Navy, but also the amount of
private protection merchants (or their insurance carriers) would be
willing to spend if they couldn't get the IN to do the job for free.

Come to think of it, interstellar commerce would affect defense budgets
insofar as it increased the effective RU production of the system.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 05:08:56 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Local defense budget

Michael writes:

>In playing around a bit with Rob's formula, I note that it computes traffic
>as an exponential function. I think it ought to tail off toward the upper end,
>but I am not sure how to express it mathematically.

Try a logarithmic function.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 22:13:53 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: When Worlds Collide

On 06/29/98 at 09:11 PM,  Talisman <shimmer@mhtc.net> said:


>Bruce Johnson wrote:

><SNIP>


>> And how are they going to get it? _I_ sure wouldn't be the first scout
>> to jump in-system after such an impressive display of power... (my PC
>> Ricardo might, but _I_ wouldn't ;->

Bruce just *keeps* giving me ideas. ;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #614
**********************************

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Traveller-digest       Tuesday, June 30 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 615



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Swor World names
new web site
TL Questions
Re: Local defense budget: Talking about curves
Re: Armed merchants
Re: When Worlds Collide
Re: Sword World names
Re: Calling all Gearheads!
Re: When Worlds Collide
Population of the Regency (was Re: Imperial Tax Practices)
Re: Sword World names
Re: When Worlds Collide

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 05:25:59 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Swor World names

OK, I've spent a few hours browsing the net for sword names. Here is my
revised file of sword names.

Here is a list of sword names with a short note about each. An '*' denotes a
name used for one of the Traveller universe Sword Worlds. I found a lot of
sword names in _The Dictionary of Phrase and Fable_ by E. Cobham Brewer. A lot
of the owners are unknown to me, so don't ask me who Frithiof or Hieme are.


Al Battar	('The Beater'), one of Mahomet's swords.

*Anduril        Sword of Aragorn, reforged from the shards of Narsil.

Angurva		('Stream of Anguish), Frithiof's sword.

Aroundight	The sword of Launcelot of the Lake.

Balisarda	Rogero's sword, made by a sorceress.

Balmung		One of the swords of Siegfried, made by Wieland, ``the divine
		blacksmith.''

Baptism         One of the swords of Strong-i'-the-Arm, which took Ansias
                three years to make.

*Beater         Orcish name for Glamdring.

*Biter          Orcish name for Orcrist.

Blutgang	('Blood-fetcher'), Hieme's sword.

Brinnig		(Flaming), Hildebrand's sword.

*Caladbolg      Cuchulainn's sword?

Caliburn        Another name for Excalibur.

Chrysaor	(sword of gold, i.e. as good as gold). Artegal's sword.

*Colada         El Cid's sword?

Corrougue	Otuel's sword.

Courtain        (Short sword), one of the swords of Ogier the Dane, which
		took Munifican three years to make. Also spelled Curtana.

Crocea Mors	(Yellow Death), Caesar's sword.

Curtana         (Short sword) Sword of Edward the Confessor, one of the royal
                swords of England, used in the coronation ceremony. Mentioned
                by Saxo. Believed to have belonged to Tristam. Also an alter-
                nate spelling for Courtain.

Curtana         One of Piper's Sword Worlds.

Dainslaf        Sword I found somewhere but threw away the reference to :-(.

Dhu' l Fakâr 	(The Trenchant), Mahomet's scimitar.

Dragvendel      Sword I found somewhere but threw away the reference to :-(.

*Durendal       Also spelled Durandal or Durandan. Roland's sword, which took
		Munifican three years to make. (Presently in the care of The
		Phantom ;-).

Durandan or	(The Inflexible), Orlando's sword.
Durandana

*Dyrnwyn        The sword of Rhydderch the Generous. One of the thirteen
                treasures of the Island of Britain.

*Enos           World in the Sword Worlds subsector. May or may not be a sword
		name.

*Excalibur      Magic sword belonging to Arthur. Brewer claims it is the Sword
                in the Stone (_Ex cal[ce] liber[are]_ = to liberate from the
		stone.) GURPS Camelot claims it is the sword given to Arthur
		by the Lady of the Lake and that The Sword in the Stone is
                named Galatine. Excalibur is presently in the care of The
                Phantom ;-)

Flamberge	(or Floberge (2 syl., the flame-cutter), one of Charlemagne's
		swords, and also the sword of Rinaldo, which took Gallas three
		years to make. Also the generic name for a particular kind of
		two-handed sword. Charlemagne's other sword Joyeuse is
		supposedly a flamberge.

Flamborge	The sword of Maugis or Malagigi, made by Wieland, ``the divine
		blacksmith.''

Flammarion      Imperial planet in Sword Worlds Subsector. Not necessarily a
                sword name.

Florence        One of the swords of Strong-i'-the-Arm, which took Ansias
                three years to make.

Fusberta Joyosa Another name for Joyeuse.

Galatine        The Sword in the Stone. Drawn from the stone by Arthur and
                later given to Gawaine as a badge of office.

Glamdring       The sword of Gandalf.

Glorious	Oliver's sword, which hacked to pieces the nine swords made by
		Ansias, Galas, and Munifican.

Graban          (The Grave-digger), one of the swords of Strong-i'-the-Arm,
                which took Ansias three years to make.

*Gram           Given by Odin to Sigmund, Volsung's son. It broke many years
                later against Odin's spear. It was reforged and wielded by
                Sigmund's son Sigurd Fafnersbane.

Gram		(Grief), one of the swords of Siegfried.

Greysteel	The sword of Koll the Thrall.
                                                      
Grasscutter     Another name for _Kusanagi-no-Tsurugi_.

Gunn            Imperial planet in Sword Worlds Subsector. Not necessarily a
                sword name.

Haulteclere     One of Piper's Sword Worlds.

Haute-claire	(Very Bright), both Closamont's and Oliver's swords
                were so called. Closamont's sword took Gallas three years to
                make.

Halef		(The Deadly), one of Mahomet's swords.
   

*Hofud          According to L. Sprague de Camp and Fletcher Pratt this is
                the name of Freyr's sword that he gives to Skirnir. Freyr's
                sword is mentioned in every book about Norse mythology I've
                seen, but _The Incompleat Enchanter_ is the only place I've
                seen it named. According to GURPS:Vikings it is _Heimdal's_
                sword.

Hothing         Agrar's sword. Mentioned by Saxo.

*Hrunting       Said to be the best of all swords. Lent to Beovulf by Ufred
                and used in the fight with Grendel's mother.

Huiting         One of Ragnald of Norway's swords (the other is Lyusing).
                Mentioned by Saxo.

Isenfang        Sword I found somewhere but threw away the reference to :-(.

*Joyeuse	(Joyous), one of Charlemagne's swords, which took Gallas
		three years to make. It is a flamberge (kind of two-handed
		sword).

Kusanagi-no-    "The Grasscutting Sword", the sword given by the KAMI to the
Tsurugi         rightful emperor of Japan.

Laevateinn      The Wounding Wand. Forged with runes by Loki at the gates of
                Niflheim.

Lauf or Leaf    Bearce's sword. Mentioned by Saxo.

Lyusing         One of Ragnald of Norway's swords (the other is Huiting).
                Mentioned by Saxo.

Logthe          Ole Siwardsson's sword.

Medham		(The Keen), one of Mahomet's swords

Merveilleuse	(The Marvellous), Doolin's sword.

Mimming         Magic sword obtained by the hero Hadding on a journey to the
                underworld.

Mimung		The sword that Wittich lent Siegfried.

Mistelten       In one story about Balder's death he is killed by a magic
                sword called Mistelten (Mistletoe) wielded by Mimming, rather
                than shot by Hoder with an arrow made of Misteltoe.

Morglay         (mor-glaif (big glaive)), the sword of Sir Bevis of
                Southampton.

Nagelring	(Nail-ring). Dietrich's sword.

*Narsil         The sword of Elendil, broken in his fight with Sauron.

Nothung         Siegfried's sword?

*Orcrist        The sword of Thorin Oakenshield.

Philippan	The sword of Marc Antony.

Quern-biter	(Foot-breadth), both Haco I. and Thoralf Skolinson had a
		sword so called.

Sacho		Eck's sword.

*Sacnoth        Leothric's sword from Dunsany's "The Fortress Unvanquishable,
                Save for Sacnoth".

Sansamha	Haroun-al-Raschid's sword.

Sanglamore	(the big bloody glaive), Braggadochio's sword.

Sauvagine	(s syl., the relentless), one of the swords of Ogier the Dane,
		which took Munifican three years to make.

Schrit or Schritt (? the lopper), Biterolf's sword.

Sequence        Alternate name for Galatine.

Skraep or       Belonged to the legendary Danish hero-king Vermund. Wielded
Screp           by Vermund's son Uffe the Meek in a duel with the son of a
                rival king and one of his henchmen for the Danish throne.
                Mentioned by Saxo.

Snyrtir         Bearce's sword. Mentioned by Saxo.

*Sting          Long knife wielded by Bilbo Baggins, Frodo Baggins, and Sam
                Gamgee.

Svavasorm       Sword I found somewhere but threw away the reference to :-(.

Tizon           or Tizona (the poker), One of the favorite swords of El Cid,
                taken by him from King Bucar. His other favorite sword was
                Colada. Tizon was buried with him.

Tranchera	(the trenchant), Agricane's sword.

*Tyrfing        Forged by two dwarfs for Svafrlami. Captured by Arngrim who         
                killed Svarflami with it. Wielded by Arngrim's som Angantyr
                and buried with him. Given by the dead Angantyr to his
                daughter Hervor. Used by Hervor's son Heidrek to kill his
                brother Angantyr. Later wielded by Heidrek's son, yet
                another Angantyr.

Waske		(2 syl.), Iring's sword.

Welsung		Both Dietlieb and Sintram had a sword so called.

Zuflagar        Ali's sword.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 23:37:35 -0700
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: new web site

At 04:11 PM 6/29/98 -0700, D. Berry wrote:
>Mark Urbin typed out with unidentified digits:
>>No more vehicle archives?  Mind if I host 'em at the Traveller GearHead Ring
>>site?
>I'm converting them over for the Gridtech site.

     Beauty!  Take it from the gearheads folks, This is a good collection
of vehicles!
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
Joan of Arc: the patron saint of welders http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 22:39:03 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: TL Questions

On 06/30/98 at 04:52 AM,  Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> said:

>>Look in your Traveller book regarding TL of a planet.
>>The maximum TL that can be LOCALLY PRODUCED.

>Unfortunately that can't be true in all cases, since the TU abounds
>in planets with too small a population to sustain its TL. So IMTU the
>planetary TL indicates the level that most of the population live
>at.

My take is just a little different from either of you.  IMTU the TL
refers to the level of technology that is generally available, and
that Travellers can get access to.  The items might be widespread and
available to everybody, or they might be restricted and available to
only an elite, but are most likely available for sale to offworlders.

IMTU, the tech might be inexpensive or expensive, it might be locally
produced or it might be imported.  The only thing that a system's TL
tells the Traveller is that when he gets there he should be able to
find technological items at that level.  Hopefully, he'll be able to
buy them, but there's no assurance of that.  

In fact, there might be items available at higher TL's.  They just
aren't generally available, and there's no guarantee you'll be able to
find, afford, or acquire them even if they are.

Eris,
    All IMTU
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 23:22:46 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Local defense budget: Talking about curves

On 06/30/98 at 05:08 AM,  Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> said:

>Michael writes:

>>In playing around a bit with Rob's formula, I note that it computes traffic
>>as an exponential function. I think it ought to tail off toward the upper end,
>>but I am not sure how to express it mathematically.

>Try a logarithmic function.

I think an S-curve is what Michael is asking for. 

I think a formula based on something like, x+x^2-x^3, gives a basic S
shape, unfortuately it isn't bounded and will quickly go negative.

The best simulation I've found for a rise, plateau, rise, plateau, etc
cycle is something like, sin(x)+x.  Plot a chart with a base of x = 1
with an increase of 0.1 to see what I mean.


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 06:30:19 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Armed merchants

David P. Summers writes:

>Mon, 29 Jun 1998 00:42:22 +0200 (METDST), Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
>>>Well, I don't see it as being a matter of man-years.  If the ship did a good
>>>job of not leaving enough information to follow, then it won't matter how
>>>much time they spend.  If it didn't, and that ship is selected to be
>>>checked, then I would say it would take a man-week or so (and a month or
>>>two of real time).
>
>>I fail to understand why you're suddenly talking about the ship trying not
>>to leave behind enough information to follow.
> 
>I've been talking about not leaving behind enough info to be caught.
>That includes not only if the information is sufficient to identify
>them, but also to catch up with them.

If I interpret that sentence correctly, you are arguing that a ship which
is engaged in normal merchant operations will somehow be able to avoid
leaving behind enough information for a subsequent investigation to be
able to establish it was visiting this world on that date. How exactly
do you think that is possible? Every passenger it carries and every cargo
it delivers leaves behind witnesses and records that it was there. And
then there is the still irrefutable fact that if there is any sort of
starport authority on the planet (which means all with Class D and better
starports and at least some with Class E starports), it will have to use
its real transponder code.

>>If you think back, you'll
>>recall that we were talking about a ship "swimming with the fishes", doing
>>normal merchant operations while waiting for an opportune target. Can you
>>explain how a ship can perform normal merchant operations without leaving
>>a trail of people that has done business with them?
> 
>Yes, but you are assuming that if you identify illegal activity on one
>system, you will then be able to trace that ship on every other world.

Well, I assume that faking engine and hull numbers is a whole lot more
difficult than using fake transponder codes. In other words, you don't
use a fake transponder code just for the hell of it. Come to that, I
also assume that people don't just consign cargoes to any passing ship
without at least some pretty impressive proof of identity.

>This gets back into "fool proof records" and kind of records (do you know
>where they went after they left?  If not, you have to check different
>destinations, increasing the complexity cost of the operation).

A list of ship departures and arrivals for each system is trivially easily
to procure. They will contain a deal of errors, of course, but you can
easily eliminate most of the ships on those lists based on the fact that
they were demonstrably elsewhere. The remaining number of ships will have
to be checked individually.

>>Even without assuming
>>that the Imperium taxes passengers and freight (Obviously, if it does, any
>>ship involved in normal merchant operations will leave a paper (electron)
>>trail that goes up to Subsector level at the very least. (In which case
>>we're propably talking man-hours to follow the track). But just taking on
>>a passenger or delivering a ton of freight will leave behind witnesses).
> 
>Well, I never suggested man-years, you did.

Yep. I argued that even if it costs a few man-years, it would be worth it.
If the cost turns out to be counted in man-hours instead, it just makes my
argument that much stronger.

>I also don't see what a trail "that goes up to the subsector level" means.

If the Imperium taxes passenger and cargo traffic, tax records will be
gathered at each starport and forwarded to the Subsector Capital (They
may even reach the Sector level). Said records will give a splendid
itinerary for each ship.

>If you think they are forwarded to the subsector headquarters, it could go
>either way.  It depends on whether they want to bother with info for each
>ship.

If they are taxing the ships' activities, they will be happy to bother with
info for each and every one of them.

>For antipiracy efforts I think you are a lot better off processing the info
>on planet rather then shipping to HQ and have it looked at weeks later.

Actually, at the moment I'm looking into the possibilities of tracking
impromptu pirates after the fact, which means that I'm assuming for
purposes of argument that little or no preventive measures are taken.
I agree with you that some cheap preventive measures are very likely to
exist, but since you've argued that in the absence of recent pirate
attacks, piracy prevention will inevitably be reduced to a level where
it is no longer effective, I've tried to show that even with NO preventive
measures at all, a merchant turned pirate will be in deep shit.

>Witnesses can be valuable in tracking criminals, but if they were
>that foolproof the most wanted list in the US wouldn't exist.

That comparison would mean something only if all people in the US had to
visit City Hall and show their identity papers in each new town they
arrived in. And not even then. I'm not talking about keeping track of 200
million people or 100 million cars, but a couple of thousand ships.
 
>>You get a piracy report. The minimum information you have on the pirate
>>will depend on whether the pirate steals the ship or not and several
>>other factors, but at the very least you can jump in a couple of scouts
>>a suitable number of light-weeks away and get some idea of its size
>>(If the victim got off a radio broadcast, or if the pirate only takes the
>>cargo you have a heck of a lot more than that, though it is canonical
>>that emission signatures can be faked). At the very least you'll have a
>>pretty good idea about its size. You run a check on all ships of the
>>appropiate size range that could physically have been in that system at
>>that time.
> 
>Unless he does wilderness refueling.

What are you talking about? This ship is engaged in regular merchant
activities. Even if they did include wilderness refuelling (I don't
want to revive that argument, so I'll assume it for purposes of
argument), he would still have to visit the starport afterwards to
do business.
 
>>Just comparing starport logs of departure and arrival dates
>>will eliminate most candidate.
> 
>Ship size is a pretty thin reed to catch a pirate on.  With
>standard hulls, there are a lot of ships in the 200-600 tone range.

I notice that you grasp at the extreme. Ship size is the absolutely
lowest limit of information you will have. If the pirate don't capture
the ship (as you've argued would be the case), you'll have a lot more.
But just the size will go a long way. Yes, there are many, say, 200 T
ships. But how many of them left a system within range of where the
piracy took place a week earlier? How many of them didn't turn up at
another destination that week? How many of them was carrying cargo
or passengers to that system? (BTW. what does our impulsive pirate do
about the cargo and passengers he is carrying? You say he isn't carrying
any? Then how is he making a living as a merchant?) How many of them
dropped out of sight for weeks after the event?
 
>>The only chance the pirate has is to run far and fast. He certainly
>>won't be able to go back to running with the fish.
>
>Well, this gets back to being able to change your identity, which
>is also in dispute.

Even if you were able to change engine and hull numbers (an assumption
I guess I will have to allow you), you still end up with the rather
obvious clue that you have one ship disappearing and another without
proper antescedents appearing at the same time. You can get away with that
sort of thing as long as no one is looking for you. But how long will
it take before an insurance investigator or a navy intelligence analyst
figures out the ship that suddenly appears out of nowhere at the same time
that the suspect disappears is worth a closer look?


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 21:51:36 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: When Worlds Collide

Mon, 29 Jun 1998 13:49:06 -0700, Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

>> Lethal; neurtrino flux? I thought those things were so non-interactive
>> that they were totally harmless?

>I suspect that the usually correct Leonard meant 'neutron' flux, most
>decidedly not harmless!

Neutrino are "almost" noninteractive and "almost" harmless.  But
it takes "enourmous" amounts to pose a threat.  Amounts that
you only get at a supernova.  I don't know if the levels are
lethal out to a distance where being underground would protect
you from the blast or not.  I have heard that the neutino wave
just proceeds the blast so if you are in a space ship outside
of a supernova you get a lethal dose just before you are blown
to smithereens.

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 23:54:35 -0500
From: Michael Croft <croft@neosoft.com>
Subject: Re: Sword World names

At 5:25 AM +0200 6/30/98, Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>OK, I've spent a few hours browsing the net for sword names. Here is my
>revised file of sword names.
>
A few comments on the ones with question marks...
>
>*Caladbolg      Cuchulainn's sword?

I find Cuchulainn's sword is sometimes called Caladi/n and his spear Gael-bolg.
Perhaps this is Cladcholg, "Hard Dinter" the sword of Fergus? (Ellis's
Dictionary of Celtic Mythology).  In other sources, I find that Caladbolg
(Hard Lightning) is sometimes given as Cuchulainn's sword.

>*Colada         El Cid's sword?
>
Verified.  From El Cantar del mio Cid (The Song of My Captain) (trans
Robert Southey)
>Thus was Count Ramon Berenguer made prisoner, and my
>Cid won from him that day the good sword Colada, which was worth
>more than a thousand marks of silver.

>*Excalibur      Magic sword belonging to Arthur. Brewer claims it is the Sword
>                in the Stone (_Ex cal[ce] liber[are]_ = to liberate from the
>		stone.) GURPS Camelot claims it is the sword given to Arthur
>		by the Lady of the Lake and that The Sword in the Stone is
>                named Galatine.)

A disputed point.  Malory has the swords the same, other sources differ.
John Matthews has the Sword in the Stone (unnamed) destroyed in an early
battle.  Other sources have Excalibur given to Gawaine.

Brewer's latin is pretty unlikely, considering the more likely derivation
from Caladfwlch (Cladcholg) to Caliburn to Excalibur.  (Calafwlch is
mentioned by Geoffrey of Monmouth as Arthur's Sword).

>Galatine        The Sword in the Stone. Drawn from the stone by Arthur and
>                later given to Gawaine as a badge of office.

>Sequence        Alternate name for Galatine.
>
Depends on who you listen to. The vulgate is full of Gawaine using
Excalibur.  I'd go with three swords: Galatine a sword of Arthur's given to
Gawaine.  Excalibur, The Sword of the Lady of the Lake, which is not nearly
as magical as it's scabbard (which protects the wearer from losing blood in
combat).  Sequence, A sword of Arthur's which he uses only in mortal
combat.  Lancelot used Sequence at least once in the Vulgate.

I'd say that Sequence or Galatine could be the Sword in the stone (if it
was not broken in battle), but that they are not all three the same...

>Tizon           or Tizona (the poker), One of the favorite swords of El Cid,
>                taken by him from King Bucar. His other favorite sword was
>                Colada. Tizon was buried with him.
Yep, also in the Song of the Cid.  I have a 162K text document of an
English translation if anyone wants it...
Michael Croft                 mailto:croft@neosoft.com
http://www.neosoft.com/~croft mailto:jcroft@carman.com
- --

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 02:06:26 EDT
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re: Calling all Gearheads!

Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net> asks:

>
>I am in a bind for time and thought some of you might like a challenge...
>
>I need to "grow" the Sydkai class cruiser from 2000td to 3000td and make a
>few other changes.  I also need to do something similar to the 2000td Zho
>Strike Cruiser.  Some of the changes are non-standard to fit the scenario
>and flavor of my game, so if you are interested, please drop me a line at
>the following address and I'll forward the requirements to you.  
>

 Which Traveller system, how much detail (stats, color text, deckplans,
exterior art, in that order), when?

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 23:09:51 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: When Worlds Collide

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote

> > However, what if it's way out in intergalactic space?  If it's 1,000
> > parsecs out the journey would take 5,000 years, plenty of time...
> >
> 
> Oooh, that would set up all sorts of interesting sociological
> structures...these people could be TL-16, jump 6. So what? They could
> never _get_ anywhere with it. Even Gramps would have a problem with 
> that 1000 parsec first step. That sets up all sorts of interesting
> possibilities.

No actually _Grandfather_ would not have any problems with it, although
most everyone else would.  All he would need to do is feed the fuel for
the ship in through it's teleportation portals from the pocket universe
it carries with it & it would have plenty of fuel.  If our ship does
jump 6 every week with an instant turnover each time the journey will
take less than 3.25 years one way. 

However if Jump Space is a manufactured artifact then the ship will be
useless outside the main part of the galaxy.

Adventure Hook - Grandfather was curious about the Magallenic Clouds &
sent a robotic ship there.  It jumped as far as it could & then switched
to sublight & achieved a very high fraction of c.  It explored a bit &
just came back the same way.  It is a bit confused as to where it's boss
went to & starts causing trouble.

Even Sillier Adventure Hook - the ship was not robotic but was crewed &
the PC's are part of its Droyne/Human/Vargr/Sentient Robot crew.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 23:21:54 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Population of the Regency (was Re: Imperial Tax Practices)

Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> wrote

> I'm a CT person, and I was impressed with the Regency Sourcebook[*]. 
> I've been mining it for ideas for M1100 (extrapolating backwards).

> [*] I am a bit worried about the population increases in RS. If those
>     increases are representative of the whole Imperial era, the whole
>     history of the Traveller Universe is in trouble. 

I always thought that the reason why the population of the Regency was
increasing but the population of the Imperium did not because the
Regency was a more dynamic society & this sociological change caused
different population dynamics.

I note that IIRC somewhere in MT it said said that the (circa 1067 &
earlier) Second Survey data was still valid until the Rebellion caused
changes.  If true (& taken literally) this indicates that no planet in
the Imperium experienced any population changes large enough to change
its population modifier between 1067 & 1117.  Maybe there was something
in the water ?

Can you picture the Scout Service standing in the highport & telling the
planets government & inhabitants "I am sorry but we can must insist that
immirgration & birth are balanced by emigration & deaths so our survey
data remains correct." :)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 12:58:07 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: Sword World names

On Tue, 30 Jun 1998, Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:

> OK, I've spent a few hours browsing the net for sword names. Here is my
> revised file of sword names.
> 
[snip]

> Nothung         Siegfried's sword?

Yes it is. This comes from the 'Ring of the Nibelung', an old german
legend (located at the river Rhine, so I should know it). 
(spoken: No-toong)

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 02:27:34 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: When Worlds Collide

In mail you write:

> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>
>>In mail you write:
>>> Leonard Erikson wrote, about lack of cities on the surface:
>>> The outer blast wave of the supernova - the inhabitants had time to get
>>> out of disintigration range, but not damage range. That's also why they
>>> live deep underground, instead of in much simpler domed cities on the
>>> surface - it took them quite a while to get out of danger, and they 
>>>planned  for that.
>
>>This has some problems. For one, there won't be any atmosphere left. So
>>the surface will be a vacuum, even  after it settles into the new
>>orbit. Second, to survive at all, they have to be more than 10 AU out
>>when the core collapses. Otherwise, the neutrino flux is lethal. And if
>>they are *that* far out, the blast damage won't be as bad.
>
> Lethal; neurtrino flux? I thought those things were so non-interactive
> that they were totally harmless?

A supernova generates so *many* of them that the small percentage that
*do* interact will give a lethal radiation dose at 10 AU.

To help you get an idea of just how *many* are generated, when that
Supernova in the Lesser Magellanic Cloud was observed in 1989(?),
neutrino detectors on Earth recieved 4-6 neutrinos from the core
collapse. That's at something like 100,000 parsecs. Back calculate
using the inverse square law and the flux is something *insane*. 

Let's see. A parsec is about 2e5 AU. So that makes our distanace about
2e10 AU. divide by 10 AU. Gives 2e9. square that to get 2e18. times 5
(median) gives 1e19 neutrinos.

Now consider that the total detector cross section was on the order of
100 square meters. So that gives a flux of 1e17 *interacting* neutrinos
per square meter. The number of non-interacting ones doesn't bear
thinking about. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #615
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Traveller-digest       Tuesday, June 30 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 616



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: When Worlds Collide
Re: When Worlds Collide
Re: List of MegaCorporations
Small scale colonisation in Traveller v1.0 (long)
re: When Worlds Collide
Re: List of MegaCorporations

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 02:35:14 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: When Worlds Collide

In mail you write:

> John R. Snead wrote:
>> 
>> Lethal; neurtrino flux? I thought those things were so non-interactive
>> that they were totally harmless?
>
> I suspect that the usually correct Leonard meant 'neutron' flux, most
> decidedly not harmless!

Nope. Neutrino. The number of neutrinos emitted by the core collapse is
something incredible. See my other reply for the calculation, but
basicly, based on the fact that we *detected* (ie interacted with)
something like 4-6 neutrinos from a supernova a *long* ways off in
1989, I get 1e17 "detected" neutrinos per square meter at 10 AU from
the supernova. The number of ones that *don't* get detected is
incredibly larger. 

But those 1e17 will ruin your day.

When someone did the (much more detailed) calculation back in 89, you
could hear jaws dropping all over the place as the concept of a
neutrino flux so high that it'd be lethal penetrated. 

BTW, this means that if there's ever a supernova in or near the
Imperium, folks will have about an hour's warning before the light gets
there. The neutrino flux ought to *destroy* neutrino detectors for a
hundred or so parsecs. :-)

The reason for the hour lag between the neutrinos and the light is that
the neutrinos escape thru the star almost as if it wasn't there. Then
the core collapses as they carried off the energy that was supporting
it. The collapse is followed by an expansion (rebound) just in time for
the outer layers of the star to meet it as they fall in. The temp and
pressures are such that *everything* fuses. And then the light has to
work its way out past all the junk that's still trying to fall in. 

And spread out behind the EM wavefront is the sleet of particles that
used to be the outermost layers of the star, boost to a fair chunk of c.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 02:47:53 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: When Worlds Collide

In mail you write:

>> Only one option really, zero point energy.  Everyone in the Imperium and
>> beyond would *love* to get their hands on that secret.
>
> And how are they going to get it? _I_ sure wouldn't be the first scout
> to jump in-system after such an impressive display of power... (my PC
> Ricardo might, but _I_ wouldn't ;->

What if he's *already* in-system? :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 13:11:09 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: List of MegaCorporations

On Mon, 29 Jun 1998, Mark Seemann wrote:

> One of my players asked me if there's a list of all the MegaCorporations
in the Traveller universe. We know there are 13 Imperial corporations and
13 non-Imperial (Referee's Companion p. 41). I know of all the Imperial
ones, as well as these non-Imperial:

> Transstar - Solomani
> Tlasayerlahei - Aslan
> Reastirlao - Aslan
> Wyaroaer - Aslan
> Otaiokeh - Aslan

Just to complete the list: The 13 Imperial ones are:

Delgado Trading, LIC
General Products
GsbAG
Hortalez et Cie, LIC
Instellarms, LIC
Ling Standard Products (LSP), LIC
SuSAG, LIC
Sternmetal Horizons, LIC
Tukera Lines, LIC

Makhidkarun
Naasirka
Sharurshid
Zirunkariish

The last four are former Vilani ones, according to the MegaTraveller
Journal #3. Along with these I know of three other ones: 

Oberlindes Lines, LIC
Al Mora
Imperial Lines

All of these Megacorps had logos published, which I made vectorgraphics of
that you can get at my website:

http://www.uni-koeln.de/~acp82/Ancients/Software

I coloured some of them, the originals all were black on white.
Tell me if you find other logos of Megacorps like the above, so I can add
them to my collection.

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 22:23:56
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Small scale colonisation in Traveller v1.0 (long)

One step at a time - Small Scale Colonisation in Traveller


Introduction

Pocket Empires is an excellent product, but it is essentially designed on
the scale of interstellar governments. In my opinion, it provides an
excellent framework for a high-level game, or an excellent generator of
scenarios and ideas for a low-level campaign.

This article is aimed at the space in between - essentially, at creating a
set of rules to put flesh out the activities involved in a low-effort
colonisation, so that the colonisation effort and running the colony
afterwards can be the focus of a roleplaying campaign.

I have tried to be generic throughout, specifying the skill used and the
difficulty of the task. This allows individual GMs to tweak things
according to their particular flavour of Traveller.

As well as the formal tasks assigned in the rules, just about everything
can and should be made a roleplaying opportunity. Players should be
encouraged to turn a skill roll into a gaming session, and if they or the
GM see a way that an action or a set of skills could assist in a particular
problem, then wing it. Turn raw numbers into something more meaningful -
describe the slow shift from frontier to settled as a world climbs from
infrastructure two to all the way to five, and how dirt tracks are turning
into highways, and describe how the original dozen air-rafts that ran an
airlift of supplies from the southern continent and kept the infant
settlement of Stornoway from starving during the Famine of '47 have been
installed as statues in parks around the planet.


Survey

The first stage is the identification of a colony world, and of a site for
colonisation within that world. This would be an Average Survey task,
assuming two out of adequate time, supporting skills and equipment. Every
criteria missing increases the task difficulty by one level. The supporting
skills would depend on specific circumstances - a world with an active
biosphere could make Survival or Biology useful, whilst finding a good site
for a mining colony could make Prospecting skill required. The time scale
is a month to survey the system, plus a month per world intensively
surveyed. Success results in accurate UPPs for each world or moon in the
system, and preselection of the colony site.

A special success on this survey roll indicates that the survey party have
found an exploitable export resource for a colony established in that
system. This could be an ore body, a native animal who's hide or meat
resembles an existing delicacy, an atmospheric concentration of some
valuable trace element, an archeological site that could be mined or
something else. In macro terms, all that matters is there is something on
the world in question that could be profitably exported back to
civilisation for difficult currency.

Of course, this assumes the world concerned does not have sentients on it
already, and the surveyors are not opposed in their activities - finding a
secret enemy naval base supporting privateers would not be a Good or a
Healthy thing for the survey team, for example[1].

If the prospective colonists already have, for example, a IISS or Megacorp
survey report, then this stage can be skipped. Personally, I would
recommend a quick trip to the site, to make sure that the survey crew didnt
spend their time experimenting with what halluciogens an IISS medikit can
be induced to produce, rather than exhaustively documenting the trace
elements in the biosphere of the world concerned.

Equipment

The second stage is the orginisation of the colony expidition. This will
need four things - money, money, money and people. The base cost of a
colonisation effort aimed at establishing a colony for 1000 people is 4
megacredits, times one point [PE atmosphere infrastructure modifier] times
transport costs of one point [distance in parsecs from source world, times
two if TL9 or 10 transport is used], times the TL of the source world.
Costs for recruiting the colonists is extra.

Needless to say, orginising all this is a Difficult Admin task. Costs can
be shaved by 10% per level of difficulty increase. Other relevant skill
tests could include Broker, Liaison and Bribery, and perhaps Streetwise,
Engineering, Mechanic, Electronic and Gravitics if pre-owned colony
equipment is purchased to cut costs.

This gets what is in effect a colony starter kit, comprising a 20 MW power
plant (usually fission), a multi-purpose ore refinery, a food production
facility, a hydrogen/oxygen cracker, a plastics manufacturing plant,
prefabricated shelters, a sick bay, a mechanical shop, an electronics shop
and several bulldozers. If the world has a less than benevolent atmosphere,
then the equipment includes air compressors, vacc suits, protective domes
and so on as appropriate.

No military equipment comes out of this standard budget. If the colony
wishes to invest in such, they will have to buy it seperatley (a dozen
self-guiding anti-starship missiles, a cheap passive sensor rig, a LIDAR
for target tracking and a battery-powered particle accelerator could be a
good investment. A nuclear damper also has it's uses, especially if your
nuclear reactor is going supercritical. Small arms are always handy, and
there are few military problems artillery cannot help solve. Kindly contact
your local Famile Spofulam representitive for a fuller list).

Other equipment the colony may consider includes a starship-fuel grade
hydrogen refinery and associated tankage, an orbital shuttle or three, a
spare power plant and anything else the management team wants and can
afford. Remember to apply shipping and environmental hardening costs where
appropriate.
 
While shopping, remember that this will be a colony of two TLs below the
world the equipment was bought on, at least at first. Equipment at higher
TLs than this will not be able to be repaired and may not be able to be
maintained locally. Consideration should be given to 'mothballing' hi-tech
equipment until a crisis that it can solve is at hand, rather than having
it continually operating, and thus building up demand for maintainence.

The basic equipment masses 500 displacement tons, times one point [PE
atmosphere infrastructure modifier] and masses 3500 tons . It is assumed
that the colony charters starships as appropriate to ship it (a transport
budget in the tens of megacredits will lease a big starship for the
neccessary month or three), then that cost can be trimmed.

If the admin roll is failed, then the equipment side of the colonisation
effort will be plagued by disorginisation. The power plant puts out power
at the wrong voltage for the hydrogen cracker, the instruction manuals for
assembing the shelters are in Old High Vilani and the cargo ship leaves
four weeks after the passenger hauler picks up everybody. Cost blowouts may
also occour.

The failure of other skills could have effects ranging from annoying (the
four hundred vacc suits were bought, but the deal didnt include shipping
from Depot) to potentially lethal (the fission plant was bought off a
merchant who forgot to mention that it was on the wrong end of an IN
bombardment a decade ago, and has been in mothballs ever since).

Example : A plan is hatched to colonise Iimidi, a world with a Dense,
Tainted atmosphere. The equipment is bought on Khuir, a TL9 world three
parsecs away. The cost is MCr4 * 1.3 (Atmosphere Infrastructure Factor) *
1.6 (3 parsecs at TL9) * 9 (Khuir's TL), or MCr 71.72.

People

Next, what are euphemistically called the human factors. Whilst most
governments do not particularily mind people buying equipment for export on
their worlds, some react badly, even violently, to people who try and bribe
their technical or other specialists off-world. Others are glad to get rid
of religious or political dissidents, useless mouths or career criminals.

Getting official approval for recruitment is an Easy task for worlds with
law level 3 or less, Average for worlds with law level 4-6, Difficult with
law level 7-8, formidable with law levels 9-11 and Impossible for law level
12 and up. The basic skill is Diplomacy, with Liason, Legal and Admin as
secondary skills. Use of Bribery is possible, allowing a number of rerolls
per level of Bribery skill available for a bribe in megacredits of twice
the local law level (we are probably talking Cabinet level corruption at
least here ...). Needless to say, spectacular failure on any of these rolls
may be bad for the health of the management team.

The Third Imperium as a whole has a law level of one, maybe two, so
Imperial permission does not need to be granted to recruit colonists from
within the extrality fences of starports. However, the majority of Imperial
Citizens do not live in starports, so direct liaison with world governments
will probably be neccessary at some point.

Key skills for finding willing people include Recruiting [2], Admin, Liason
and possibly Acting or Broker, plus of course money. GMs may want players
to draft up or even act out advertising spots or other media campaigns for
recruiting colonists. Needless to say, the greater the time pressure the
colony program is under, the more chances there are for mistakes.

The base difficulty of finding 1000 eager colonists is an easy Recruiting
or a medium task for any of the Streetwise, Admin or Liason cluster,
involving spending 1 megacredit. If the official permission of the local
government does not exist, then these become two levels more difficult,
costs triple and Streetwise becomes a secondary skill. This assumes that
the colony orginisers merely want willing warm bodies - if they want
something more than the tired, the poor, the huddled masses yearning to
breathe free, then things get more difficult, not to mention more
expensive. A colony will have a Culture score equal to the weighted average
of the worlds the colonists are recruited from. If the management team
wants to weight recruitment either to the more flexibly minded of a
hardworking if ossified society, or the less flakey and more hardworking of
a more freewheeling planet, then the a difficulty increase of the projected
cultural difference exists.

Example : The Iimidi Colonisation Company is recruiting for colonists on
Khuir, in the Empire of the Seven Stars. Khuir has a law level of B and a
Culture of 5, so getting government permission is a Formidible task. If
this permission is granted, then recruiting 1000 prospective colonists is
an Easy recruiting task costing 1 megacredit if the ICC is happy with
gaining a Culture of 5 when Iimidi is colonised, increasing by one
difficulty level per point the IIC want Iimidi's culture to differ from
this value. If Khuir's government diapproves of the colony effort
recruiting, then it is a Hard recruiting task, costing three megacredits -
recruiting for a Culture score of 6 will thus become a Formidible task.

Finding people with a specific skill is an Easy Recruiting task, or Average
if using Admin, Liaison or Streetwise. There is a -1 DM per law level of
the target world above 5 in any case, plus the 2 level shift in task
difficulty if the local government has not given permission. The recruiter
requires one or more offsiders with the skill(s) in question to assist in
testing applicants. Every additional skill is an increase of one level in
difficulty. Time needed is one week per attempt. Cost is a base KCr 20 per
attempt, plus KCr 10 per recruitee actually hired (again, triple costs if
host government permission is lacking). Every point by which the recruiting
roll is made adds one potential recruit. The testing process takes place in
this week, and is an easy task for the offsider for each skill tested for.
If the testing roll is failed, the tester is unsure as to whether the
applicant is actually competant - a spectacular failure results in a false
positive result. The person making the attempt and their offsider(s) are
fully occupied for one week advertising, answering enquiries and testing
potential applicants. This time increases to one month is the skill or
skills set being searched for is sufficiently rare or obscure.

Example : The Kallyr's Belt Development Corporation is looking for
Engineers with familiarity on TL8 fission plants, just in case the PC with
that skill is busy when a crisis hits. Their recruiting specialist has
Admin-3, and they have an offsider (actually the key PC) with
Engineering-3. They make the recruiting roll by 4. They have found 4
potentially interested appropriately qualified engineers, who are prepared
to sign up for KCr 10 apiece. The tester makes 3 of the 4 rolls, so they
are certain 3 of the applicants are competant on the equipment. These 3 are
hired, so the total process costs KCr 50.

Wise colony orginisers orginise appropriate training for potential
colonists before shipping them out - hiring trainers and orginising skills
training for all prospective colonists may aid survival rates in the
critical early months, especially if Survival, Vacc Suit or similar is
needed to survive outside the protective domes of the fledgeling colony. A
cost of MCr 2 per 1000 colonists per months training is involved, with a
base difficulty against Admin or Instruction of Difficult, falling by 1
difficulty level per month of additional training. If official approval
does not exist for the colony attempt, these costs are tripled, and in
addition a Difficult Admin or Streetwise roll must be made each month
(Formidible for law level 5-8, and Impossible for law level 9 or up).
Success at such a training excersise raises the general skill level of a
colony from 'unskilled' to 'normal' - a special success will result in the
colony having an Infrastructure score of 3.1 rather than 3. 


Constitutional Issues

The next issue is orginising the legal and government structure of the new
colony. Some element of foreknowledge, or even participation, by the new
colonists in this may help prevent problems down the track. Options include
a corporate structure, with shareholdings split between the new residents
and the parent holding company, a system of sweat equity - the colonists
will own their land after putting down a permanent residence and
cultivating 2 hectares for 5 years or a system of bonded indenture. 

The proposed legal system for the colony should also be known ahead of time
- - one advantage of stable societies such as the Vilani is all this sort of
detail is already negotiated within the overall social contract.

If some known model is not being used, then drafting a workable set of laws
is a Difficult Legal task, taking as many months as the target law level.
Failure results in a law level (2d6-7) levels different from that planned
for. Spectacular failure results in a Law Level determined at random.

Consideration should also be given to the social mores, official or
otherwise, of the new society. This may be a critical issue if colonists
were recruited from several worlds - different socieities may have
different moral codes dealing with issues such as cohabitation issues,
whether personal relationships are legally sanctioned, are local moral
codes enforcable on strangers etc.  The trip to the site may be a bad time
to discover that massive cultural incompatibilities exist between the
colonists at large, and their life-support system technicians.

Establishment

Assuming the trip to the colony world is without incident, then the colony
itself can be established.

Unloading and setting up is a Average Admin task, Hard if the colony site
does not have a atmosphere breathable with filter masks (assuming of course
the survey report was accurate and nothing untoward has happened in the
meantime. This is an especially bad time to find the survey crew was sadly
deficient in some field, such as tectonic plate engineering, native life
migration pattern analysis or solar flare frequency prediction).

This is just the "starter kit" equipment. Military equipment has to be
sited seperately, using Combat Engineering, weapon-specific skills and, as
always, Admin skill.

At this point, the world is now settled, and gets a type E starport, a TL
of 2 below where the colony equipment was bought and a UWP and economic
extention as appropriate. The world has a Resources score calculated during
the Survey phase, and an Infrastructure score of three. Culture is
determined by the weighted average of the Culture scores of the worlds the
colonists came from, as modified by special recruiting efforts.

Example : A colony of 2000 colonists is formed on Iimidii with equipment
bought on Khuir, with 1000 coming from Khuir with culture of 5 and 1000
from Uurigger with culture of 7. The colony is therefore culture 6. The IIC
forms it as a Corporate State, with law level of four. It's full UWP is
therefore E493314-7 203, with an EE of 7226.

Running the place

The base annual per capita income of a colony is equal to Cr 5 *
Infrastructure * Resources * Tech Level * Finished Goods Trade. This
represents domestic production, including the non-cash proportion of the
economy - startup colonies tend to have a large non-traded sector of
subsistence farming and co-operative work, but for the purpose of the
world's account's it's all measured in Imperial credits.

If the colony is sited on or near an exploitable export resource, then the
colony has an additional per annum income of KCr 1d6 per citizen each year
[3].

Administering a colony is per Pocket Empires - a Formidible Admin roll each
year. Failure involves an increase in 10% of basic civilian expenses.
Spectacular failure involves a loss of 1d6% of colonists in some sort of
disaster, if the colonists were not adequately trained before departure.
Spectacular success automatically removes this status if the colonists had
not been adequatly trained before departure.

Basic Civilian Expenses are {[5*Culture]+Infrastructure(1+Infrastructure
Atmosphere Modifier)+Law Level]/100}*Administration Factor*Government Type
Factor. This involves minimum civilian living standards, law enforcement
and maintainence of existing infrastructure.

Example : Iimidi has a GWP of (Cr 5*2*7*8*1) or Cr 560 per capita, or a
total of MCr 1.12 per annum. It's minimum civilian expenses are
{[5*6]+3(1.3)+2}/100*1*1.1, or approximatly 40% of this - KCr 405.

Taxes

Planetary income in excess of minimum civilian expenses is split between
the citizenry and the government according the the ruling tax rate.
Remember that the tax rate can be increased, at a cost of popularity. [5]

Keep track of both a world's income and it's stock of unspent funds or
accumulated deficit.

Example : Iimidi has a government type of one, so it's base rate of tax is
20%. The government's share of the rest is thus KCr 122. Incidentally, this
puts the after-tax income of the average Iimidian at Cr 445 per year -
about two poor meals a day, plus a cheap set of clothes once a year.

Planetary Defenses

The colony management team gets to set the defense budget, design command
structures and purchase equipment. Most colonies will not be able to afford
a formal military, and will make do with militia and perhaps a central
armoury.

Professional soldiers cost one point five times the planet's after tax per
capita income each. Locally produced equipment can be bought normally and
costs 10% of it's purchase price each year in maintainence, while imported
equipment costs 20% of it's purchase price each year in imported spare parts.

Example : Iimidi has a per capita income of Cr 560, so any professional
soldiers will be paid Cr 840 per year each, plus equipment. Iimidi makes do
without a formal military, as 100 soldiers would consume almost the entire
government budget without equipment.

Developing Infrastructure

Small colonies may improve infrastructure in tenths of a point at a time.

Improving Infrastructure by one tenth of a point is a Difficult task
against a world's culture score [4], taking a minimum of (Atmosphere
Infrastructure Modifier+1) / 5 years and costing (Atmosphere Infrastructure
Modifier+1) * (Infrastructure + 1) * Cr 200 per capita. This cost can be
split over a number of years, with the roll being made when the entire sum
is paid.

Example : Improving Iimidi's infrastructure from 2 to 2.1 will take a
minimum of one year and cost 
KCr 1.4 per head, or a total of MCr 2.8. Considering that the Iimadian
government's total budget is KCr 122, this will clearly have to be done
over many years.

Improving Technology

It is assumed that small colonies may use the Technological Uplift rules,
so improving technology is cheaper and easier. The task is a Difficult task
against a world's Culture score, with cost and time as per Pocket Empires,
However, cost is in KCr per person rather than RU per world. Note the
minimum required starport and infrastructure scores for technological advance.

Example : Improving Iimidi's technology level from 7 to 8 would cost KCr 4
per head, and take a minimum of 2 years. Note that a TL of 8 would allow
exploitation of the Iimidi system's 3 gas giants, thus raising Resources
from 7 to 10, with a commensurate 40% rise in per capita income, so it is
probably a priority for the fledgeling colony.

Improving Starports

Improving a starport is a Formidible task against a world's Culture score.
Times are as PE, with costs divided by ten and in KCr per head.

Example : Improving Iimidi's starport from E to D would cost Cr 120 per
head, and take at least 2 years. Given the low economic impact of a Type D
port vis a vis a type E, it probably isnt a priority until the planet is
developed enough to go to a type C port in fairly short succession.

Population Growth and Immigration ; the good news

Population change occours annually as per the rules in Pocket Empires. All
population growth above 3%, and half of all growth below 3%, represents
immigration, and immigrants bring KCr 1d6 apiece with them to the colony.
Whilst technically privately owned, this adds to the total wealth of the
colony and is thus best represented by a cash inflow direct into the
government's coffers, where it will doubtless be spent on socially
beneficial purposes.

If a colony chooses to assist migration by offering subsidies to the travel
costs of prospective migrants, then roll two dice rather than one when
calculating the Population Change Factor, but immigrants do not bring
wealth into the colony.

Immigrants are a good source of plot pushes and pulls - migrants may
bringpolitical struggles with them, or be seeking to escape them. Migrants
may be highly skilled retirees from one of the Imperial services, or
desperatly poor reufgees seeking a better life. Social tensions may exist
between existing colonists and tenderfeet, especially if wealth disparities
exist between them.

Example : Iimidi rolls a 4 on it's PCF roll in it's first year. It's PCF is
therefore (4+resources 7 + infrastructure 3 + technology 7)/ (labour 2 +1)
or (21/3) or 7. This would normally be a 6% population increase, but the
class E port drops this to 3%. Half these persons are native born, and half
(thirty) are immigrants, bringing with them an injection of cash and goods
of KCr 1d6*30 (not insignifigant when the government's annual budget is KCr
167).

Population Growth and Immigration ; the bad news

Infrastructure and starports are designed for a particular level of
population. Too many people, and air recycling equipment gets stressed,
roads get potholed, farmland or equivalent starts to become overworked and
the starport starts becoming overutilised to the point of danger.

When a colony goes up a full UWP population code, it's starport falls by
one class and it's infrastructure decreases by one full point.

Drift in culture and self-determination

Do this every 10 years, with a DM costing KCr 1 per head, rather than the
flat amount per planet.

Random Events

Do these as per Pocket Empires. They are an excellent opportunity for
roleplaying.

Popularity 

Roll popularity each year. If the management team is on the planet,
remember to apply the 'trusted lieutenant' rule.

Offworld Investment

Many colonies will be faced with a crisis of underdevelopment, being unable
to spare the resources to invest in improving the world's infrastructure
and technology in any reasonable sort of time.

A possible solution is importing resources from offworld.

Other worlds can assist with this for various reasons - the Imperial Navy
or IISS may want to put a base on the world at some future point in time,
and the presence of a thriving colony will help with the operation of this
installation, or a transport company may want a better starport on a world
in order to allow easier refueling in a certain system.

Worlds or corporations may also recognise the future benefit of developing
their trading partners, and be willing to invest money in a world with an
eye to establishing a long-term trading partner - an investment by
Makhadurin of mere megacredits now may result in a long-term trading
partnership that may profit the company greatly over the centuries.

Alternativly, investors may just regard a world's bonds as a good
investment, secured as they are on the future and exploitable resources of
an entire planet.

Issuing Bonds

The basic Traveller rate of interest is 3%, and raising money at this rate
is a Staggering task against Broker skill. Every 1% increase in possible
rate of return reduces the task difficulty by one percent. If the success
roll is missed by one point, half the projected money is raised at the
target rate of interest. If the success roll is missed by two points, one
tenth of the projected money is raised.

Raising funds costs a basic two percent of the size of the issue in
brokerage, advertising and similar costs (as always, appropriate
roleplaying and character skills may affect the costs and success chances
of a bond issue - perhaps a player could design an advertisment aimed at
gaining the participation of small individual investors). These costs have
to be paid regardless of the success of the issue.

Declaring bankruptcy or unilaterally reducing the repayment levels on a
bond is possible, and could result in effects ranging from a negative
response to future attempts to raise money, to attempts to sieze offworld
assets, to sponsorship of a coup attempt by the financiers affected.

Buying bonds back is certainly possible. This costs an amount equal to the
original amount raised, plus five percent. [5]

Example : The Iimidian government decides to issue a bond for 10
megacredits, repayable at 4%. The plan is for 8 megacredits of this to be
used to increase Iimidi's tech level from 7 to 8, with the other 2
megacredits to repay the annual interest for the first 5 years. After this,
the population and local economy should have grown sufficiently to allow
repayment of the KCr 500 per year in interest costs. The bond issue would
be a Formidiable task at that interest rate, involving a cost of KCr 200.

Direct Investment

Direct foriegn investment is also a possibility. Each year a world comes to
the attention of the corporate community at large by improving it's
infrastructure, technology or starport, there is a 1 in 6 chance of one of
these corporations sending a corporate team to the world to scout out
investment opportunities.

Such an event is important for a colony, and efforts will presumably be
made to show the planet off to it's best, and to assist the corporate team
in any way possible.

The corporate team will go home without a decision, unless the local
government succeeds in a Staggering roll against Trader or Diplomacy skill,
with Liason, Carousing, Admin and perhaps Bribery as secondary skills.

If successful, then investment will amount to an offworld corporation
providing the funds for an immediate attempt to increase Infrastructure by
one tenth of a factor, plus one tenth of a factor for every two points the
task roll succeeded by. This is paid for immediatly, and subject to the
normal task roll against a world's Culture score. This investment could be
in the form of a single large plant, or of purchases of stock in a large
number of local corporations, or of a mix of direct and indirect investment.

On a special success, a corporation is interested in improving the starport
by one grade, provided it can run it as a private installation. The effect
of this will be half of a world's Finished Goods Trade bonus will go to the
world, and the other half go to the investing corporation as fees and
import and export duties. Needless to say, the host government is not
obliged to accept this offer.

Substantial corporate investment in a world will have a long term impact on
it, and the greater the investment the greater the effect on a world's
economy and society. If a single offworld corporation has a large amount of
equity in a world's industries, then it may be in a position to
substantially influence a world's government, economy and society by a
variety of direct and indirect pressures. 

Example : After many years of hard work, Iimidi succeeds in raising it's
Infrastructure score from 2 to 3. A Foriegn Investment roll succeeds, and a
corporate team from Allfinanz arrives. The world's leadership team pulls
out all the stops, and succeeds in their Formidiable roll by 2 points.
Allfinanz therefore puts up the money for an attempt to increase Imiidi's
infrastructure form 3 to 3.2. This will take 2 years to resolve, and if it
succeeds Iimiidi will have Infrastructure 3.2 and Allfinanz will have
influence over Iimidi commensurate with it's 6% share of Iimdii's stock of
capital.

[1] GMs who believe piracy can exist as a going private concern are welcome
to edit that to "a secret pirate base".

[2] This skill was pretty self-explanatory, and in the old Mercenary and
High Guard products. Personally, I believe it should be a choice rather
than Admin for any of those careers, and Merchants as well (Tramp
freighters are always looking for new crewmembers). RIP CES, 1946-1998.
Born in hope, murdered in treachery.

[3] This set of rules ignores the Resources Export rules in PE, which
frankly I find silly. Note that for most startup colonies an exploitable
resource will dominate the local economy.

[4] I'm not sure how you recreate this probability curve using 2d6, rather
than T4's 2.5d6 - perhaps 2 dice versus Culture, with any roll of doubles
failing, or multiplying the culture score by 0.8 before rolling.

[5] The PE rules are vague as to whether or not you can reduce your tax
rate below the government norm in order to increase your popularity higher
than otherwise. Personally, I think you should be able to set your
discretionary tax rate at negative.

[5] Especially devious finance ministers may realise that spreading rumours
of default, then quietly buying up outstanding bonds at reduced prices from
worried investors is both possible and the sort of behaviour that three out
of four megacorporations send out hit squads over.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 09:35:29 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: When Worlds Collide

Peter Newman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Adventure Hook - Grandfather was curious about the Magallenic Clouds &
sent a robotic ship there.  It jumped as far as it could & then switched
to sublight & achieved a very high fraction of c.  It explored a bit &
just came back the same way.  It is a bit confused as to where it's boss
went to & starts causing trouble.

Even Sillier Adventure Hook - the ship was not robotic but was crewed &
the PC's are part of its Droyne/Human/Vargr/Sentient Robot crew.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
And here, ladies and gentlemen, we have the origin of the planet first
mentioned in this thread - the whole planet is an artificial exploration
ship, the population is the remnants of the crew, and there were
Final War saboteurs on board who made trouble (enough that "civilization"
on board the ship fell, but not enough to destroy it). Now it's come home,
and has stuck itself into a habitable zone of a star while the sentient
computer at it's core tries to figure out where Grandfather went.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 09:58:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael and MJ Houghton <herveus@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: List of MegaCorporations

Howdy!
L.A. write:
[list of megacorporations snipped]
> 
> The last four are former Vilani ones, according to the MegaTraveller
> Journal #3. Along with these I know of three other ones: 
> 
> Oberlindes Lines, LIC
> Al Mora
> Imperial Lines

These are not "megacorporations". Oberlindes Lines and Al Morai are both
local to the Spinward Marches. Imperillines is the cover for the private
J-6 network that gives officials a heads-up on "interesting" developments
propagating via X-Boat. Sort of (vaguely) like Air America, the CIA airline.
(in some respects; don't strain the analogy too far)

yours,
Michael
- -- 
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@access.digex.net  | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
                          | http://www.access.digex.net/~herveus/

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #616
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Traveller-digest       Tuesday, June 30 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 617



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Local defense budget: Talking about curves
Re: When Worlds Collide
Re: When Worlds Collide
Re: Underground...
Re: When Worlds Collide
How many fishes?
Re: Hello and a question
Re: TL questions
Re: Swor World names
Re: Small scale colonisation in Traveller v1.0 (long)
CD Rom
Re: When Worlds Collide
Re: Underground...
Re: When Worlds Collide
Re: When Worlds Collide
Re: When Worlds Collide

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 10:09:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael and MJ Houghton <herveus@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Local defense budget: Talking about curves

Howdy!
Eris wrote:
> On 06/30/98 at 05:08 AM,  Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> said:
> 
> >Michael writes:
> 
> >>In playing around a bit with Rob's formula, I note that it computes traffic
> >>as an exponential function. I think it ought to tail off toward the upper end,
> >>but I am not sure how to express it mathematically.
> 
> >Try a logarithmic function.
> 
> I think an S-curve is what Michael is asking for. 
> 
> I think a formula based on something like, x+x^2-x^3, gives a basic S
> shape, unfortuately it isn't bounded and will quickly go negative.
> 
> The best simulation I've found for a rise, plateau, rise, plateau, etc
> cycle is something like, sin(x)+x.  Plot a chart with a base of x = 1
> with an increase of 0.1 to see what I mean.
> 
I've played around a bit with it and what I want would look
like an exponential curve that becomes logarithmic at a certain point. 
This maintains a monotonicly increasing curve that grows slowly.
Now, given this curve, write a function that plots this way on 
semi-logarithmic paper, where the y-axis is logarithmic and the x-axis
is linear.

I looked at polynomial and trigonometric functions, but they have
(as noted) some properties that I find undesirable (periodicity and/or
non-monotonic growth. I am looking for a function that (at least
conceptually) can be expressed as y=f(x) and x=f(y). x and y are both
positive.

The x-axis is the summed indices that rate the amount of trade that
Rob generates. The y-axis is the passenger volume index. 

On the other hand, Rob's latest values (exponent 0.36) seem defensable
on further analysis (at least for the Rhylanor-Porozlo pair). 

Rob, could you post the latest iteration of your algorithm?

thanks,
Michael


- -- 
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@access.digex.net  | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
                          | http://www.access.digex.net/~herveus/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 10:12:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael and MJ Houghton <herveus@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: When Worlds Collide

Howdy!

Walt Smith wrote:
> Peter Newman wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Adventure Hook - Grandfather was curious about the Magallenic Clouds &
> sent a robotic ship there.  It jumped as far as it could & then switched
> to sublight & achieved a very high fraction of c.  It explored a bit &
> just came back the same way.  It is a bit confused as to where it's boss
> went to & starts causing trouble.
> 
> Even Sillier Adventure Hook - the ship was not robotic but was crewed &
> the PC's are part of its Droyne/Human/Vargr/Sentient Robot crew.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> And here, ladies and gentlemen, we have the origin of the planet first
> mentioned in this thread - the whole planet is an artificial exploration
> ship, the population is the remnants of the crew, and there were
> Final War saboteurs on board who made trouble (enough that "civilization"
> on board the ship fell, but not enough to destroy it). Now it's come home,
> and has stuck itself into a habitable zone of a star while the sentient
> computer at it's core tries to figure out where Grandfather went.
> 
Gee... does the ship^H^H^H^Hplanet have vestiges of a hexagonal grid on
its surface? :)

yours,
Michael
- -- 
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@access.digex.net  | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
                          | http://www.access.digex.net/~herveus/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 08:23:01 PDT
From: "Odin Sveinsson" <helsefyr34@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: When Worlds Collide

Folks let look at this idea as something differently, lets say that
one of grandfathers Children wanted to conduct a study of what would
happen if he created a specific enviornment (underground setting) and
introduced a modified human stock (Dwarves) and some other simular
human hybreds into this set up environment.

We can say that the planet had lots of carved out areas to support
the varrious eco-systems, with many planned plants and animals put
into place first. Then introducing the different cultures and setting
up their societies.

Now this would be that there would be a superstructure of Ancient
machines and facilities throughout the planet to support the
scientific experiment. I'd also say that nost likely there would
be one cloning lab that can and does create humans. The purpose
of the lab could be to create the different life forms and genetically
alter them to meet the need.

Now what I'd propose is that the maintance crew are cloned standard
humans who live in a domes just under the surface like the Logan's Run
city. Theses humans are programmed with skills and develope 
personalities as they live. Lets say at age (30) they are "Renewed"<g>
and that well something happens.

Ok long long ago the controlling Grandson of Grandfather stopped
coming and the ship floated through space on it's pre-set path. The
computer ( a now self-aware kind entity)  followed it's pre-set plan
and just awaited the Grandson's return. He never came and the ship
drifted on.

Well as all good things come to a end, the planet course would
take it into a solar system where the computer knew that it's engines
couldn't allow it to escape. Being  self-aware it then  decided to
put the planet into a safe orbit, and began opperations to maneuver
the planet into a correctly safe approach and etc.

As was part of the grandson's original game plan for this world,
the planet had large atmosphere processing plants in place to help
convert and rebuild the planet a suitable atmosphere.

The computer started to grow many more clone human crew and program
them with needed skills to do the many tasks. So then the planet
was able to settle into orbit about a large gas giant. In doing so
the earthquakes and etc caused alot of damage, they atmosphere
processing plants began to start working. They were set on automatic
settings and etc.

Now part of the damage was that the powersource for the world ship
was damaged and had to be taken off line for good. The computer had
a set amount of battery back-up and set in motion (30 years- one
generation of the clone crew) to work out many of the serface world
issues. 

Also the computer was damaged as well and was loosing many of it's
command ability. Actually it has stopped being Self-aware somehow
and many of the things that use to be controlled by the computer
were now not. Now the human crew continued their jobs but as all 
humans will they started to exert themselves and the beginnings of 
a new human culture did form.

Now I would set this campaign some 4-5 generations after the planet
went into orbit and the humans have broken out and discovered the 
serface world and have started to reclaim it. They now control the 
computer and it's great knowledge in some areas and lack of information 
in others. They begin to establish more conventional
power systems and factories to produce materials and etc.They also
redesover first basic flight and then through the computer and 
experimentation more and more complex aircraft. Soon they descover
space flight and and develope an effective Pre-Jump space ship systems
and etc. Remember this type of data wouldn't have been included in the 
computers data base. 

Now while this is all happening the other cultures that have noticed
some changes and etc, have started to explore some things that were 
taboo in the past. It seems the old God (the computer) has abandoned
them and etc. These different low tech cultures start fighting with each 
other, and somehow they too find their ways to the serfice. As
with all first contacts, fear is always there and fighting breaks out.

So then begins the fight for control of different sectors of the 
surface world by the different races. The Dwarves perfer the Mountains, 
the Orcs perfer the deep forests, and the humans perfer
the great flat open spaces.

The dwarves are very good at coming up with a low tech approach to
solving a problem plus they are real crafty and very smart. The orcs
are fast breaders and are very close to nature and etc. The Humans
have like Tech level 9-10-11 depending on what it is.

Now while all this is going on on this new planet "X", I would also
have another planet native to this system just gain Tech level#9.
They have just started to explore there own solar system and consider
the New planet "X" to just be another Moon of the gas giant. They
have sent some unmanned probes to do fly buy and takes some pictures.
They have noted that there is a Eco-system on the planet, and that
there is most likely plant life and basic animal life possible.

I would also place a third world in system that was rich in minerals
with a basic atmosphere and some plant life and a few life forms.
This world would be between the main home world of this native
life form and the Gas giant who has planet "X" as one of it's moons.

I would set the campaign as the players are part of the new scout 
service, formed from the military force. They would have both Military
basic skills and Scout skills. 

The sky would be the limit as the cultures clashed and etc...<g>!

Penn Eckert
>
>Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote
>
>> > However, what if it's way out in intergalactic space?  If it's 
1,000
>> > parsecs out the journey would take 5,000 years, plenty of time...
>> >
>> 
>> Oooh, that would set up all sorts of interesting sociological
>> structures...these people could be TL-16, jump 6. So what? They could
>> never _get_ anywhere with it. Even Gramps would have a problem with 
>> that 1000 parsec first step. That sets up all sorts of interesting
>> possibilities.
>
>No actually _Grandfather_ would not have any problems with it, although
>most everyone else would.  All he would need to do is feed the fuel for
>the ship in through it's teleportation portals from the pocket universe
>it carries with it & it would have plenty of fuel.  If our ship does
>jump 6 every week with an instant turnover each time the journey will
>take less than 3.25 years one way. 
>
>However if Jump Space is a manufactured artifact then the ship will be
>useless outside the main part of the galaxy.
>
>Adventure Hook - Grandfather was curious about the Magallenic Clouds &
>sent a robotic ship there.  It jumped as far as it could & then 
switched
>to sublight & achieved a very high fraction of c.  It explored a bit &
>just came back the same way.  It is a bit confused as to where it's 
boss
>went to & starts causing trouble.
>
>Even Sillier Adventure Hook - the ship was not robotic but was crewed &
>the PC's are part of its Droyne/Human/Vargr/Sentient Robot crew.
>


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 11:24:44 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Underground...

>I am currently planning a game on a world that was thrown out of orbit
>around its star.  The population of the planet had enough time to prepare,
>and proper technology to survive by moving underground.  The setting for
>the game is several thousand generations later when the planet is captured
>by another star...
>
>I would like to hear any thoughts you all have on this idea...

Three words;

Moon Base Alpha

[tee hee hee heee...Slam!]

Pete


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 08:24:06 PDT
From: "Odin Sveinsson" <helsefyr34@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: When Worlds Collide

Folks let look at this idea as something differently, lets say that
one of grandfathers Children wanted to conduct a study of what would
happen if he created a specific enviornment (underground setting) and
introduced a modified human stock (Dwarves) and some other simular
human hybreds into this set up environment.

We can say that the planet had lots of carved out areas to support
the varrious eco-systems, with many planned plants and animals put
into place first. Then introducing the different cultures and setting
up their societies.

Now this would be that there would be a superstructure of Ancient
machines and facilities throughout the planet to support the
scientific experiment. I'd also say that nost likely there would
be one cloning lab that can and does create humans. The purpose
of the lab could be to create the different life forms and genetically
alter them to meet the need.

Now what I'd propose is that the maintance crew are cloned standard
humans who live in a domes just under the surface like the Logan's Run
city. Theses humans are programmed with skills and develope 
personalities as they live. Lets say at age (30) they are "Renewed"<g>
and that well something happens.

Ok long long ago the controlling Grandson of Grandfather stopped
coming and the ship floated through space on it's pre-set path. The
computer ( a now self-aware kind entity)  followed it's pre-set plan
and just awaited the Grandson's return. He never came and the ship
drifted on.

Well as all good things come to a end, the planet course would
take it into a solar system where the computer knew that it's engines
couldn't allow it to escape. Being  self-aware it then  decided to
put the planet into a safe orbit, and began opperations to maneuver
the planet into a correctly safe approach and etc.

As was part of the grandson's original game plan for this world,
the planet had large atmosphere processing plants in place to help
convert and rebuild the planet a suitable atmosphere.

The computer started to grow many more clone human crew and program
them with needed skills to do the many tasks. So then the planet
was able to settle into orbit about a large gas giant. In doing so
the earthquakes and etc caused alot of damage, they atmosphere
processing plants began to start working. They were set on automatic
settings and etc.

Now part of the damage was that the powersource for the world ship
was damaged and had to be taken off line for good. The computer had
a set amount of battery back-up and set in motion (30 years- one
generation of the clone crew) to work out many of the serface world
issues. 

Also the computer was damaged as well and was loosing many of it's
command ability. Actually it has stopped being Self-aware somehow
and many of the things that use to be controlled by the computer
were now not. Now the human crew continued their jobs but as all 
humans will they started to exert themselves and the beginnings of 
a new human culture did form.

Now I would set this campaign some 4-5 generations after the planet
went into orbit and the humans have broken out and discovered the 
serface world and have started to reclaim it. They now control the 
computer and it's great knowledge in some areas and lack of information 
in others. They begin to establish more conventional
power systems and factories to produce materials and etc.They also
redesover first basic flight and then through the computer and 
experimentation more and more complex aircraft. Soon they descover
space flight and and develope an effective Pre-Jump space ship systems
and etc. Remember this type of data wouldn't have been included in the 
computers data base. 

Now while this is all happening the other cultures that have noticed
some changes and etc, have started to explore some things that were 
taboo in the past. It seems the old God (the computer) has abandoned
them and etc. These different low tech cultures start fighting with each 
other, and somehow they too find their ways to the serfice. As
with all first contacts, fear is always there and fighting breaks out.

So then begins the fight for control of different sectors of the 
surface world by the different races. The Dwarves perfer the Mountains, 
the Orcs perfer the deep forests, and the humans perfer
the great flat open spaces.

The dwarves are very good at coming up with a low tech approach to
solving a problem plus they are real crafty and very smart. The orcs
are fast breaders and are very close to nature and etc. The Humans
have like Tech level 9-10-11 depending on what it is.

Now while all this is going on on this new planet "X", I would also
have another planet native to this system just gain Tech level#9.
They have just started to explore there own solar system and consider
the New planet "X" to just be another Moon of the gas giant. They
have sent some unmanned probes to do fly buy and takes some pictures.
They have noted that there is a Eco-system on the planet, and that
there is most likely plant life and basic animal life possible.

I would also place a third world in system that was rich in minerals
with a basic atmosphere and some plant life and a few life forms.
This world would be between the main home world of this native
life form and the Gas giant who has planet "X" as one of it's moons.

I would set the campaign as the players are part of the new scout 
service, formed from the military force. They would have both Military
basic skills and Scout skills. 

The sky would be the limit as the cultures clashed and etc...<g>!

Penn Eckert
>
>Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote
>
>> > However, what if it's way out in intergalactic space?  If it's 
1,000
>> > parsecs out the journey would take 5,000 years, plenty of time...
>> >
>> 
>> Oooh, that would set up all sorts of interesting sociological
>> structures...these people could be TL-16, jump 6. So what? They could
>> never _get_ anywhere with it. Even Gramps would have a problem with 
>> that 1000 parsec first step. That sets up all sorts of interesting
>> possibilities.
>
>No actually _Grandfather_ would not have any problems with it, although
>most everyone else would.  All he would need to do is feed the fuel for
>the ship in through it's teleportation portals from the pocket universe
>it carries with it & it would have plenty of fuel.  If our ship does
>jump 6 every week with an instant turnover each time the journey will
>take less than 3.25 years one way. 
>
>However if Jump Space is a manufactured artifact then the ship will be
>useless outside the main part of the galaxy.
>
>Adventure Hook - Grandfather was curious about the Magallenic Clouds &
>sent a robotic ship there.  It jumped as far as it could & then 
switched
>to sublight & achieved a very high fraction of c.  It explored a bit &
>just came back the same way.  It is a bit confused as to where it's 
boss
>went to & starts causing trouble.
>
>Even Sillier Adventure Hook - the ship was not robotic but was crewed &
>the PC's are part of its Droyne/Human/Vargr/Sentient Robot crew.
>


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 11:14:58 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: How many fishes?

If a smuggler, pirate, spy, or other malcontent wants to try and "swim
with the fishes", it might be interesting to see how many fishes there
are to swim with.

Leave out Military vessels in active service. Leave out massive megacorp
vessels on very regular runs - some TU's have 10000 (or 100000)ton
trade ships that only go from point A to point B and back again, I think
we know where they are.

Leave in Free Traders and other private or small corporate trading
vessels that travel with no planned route, or only plan their route one
or two systems past the next starport. Leave in whatever private
pleasure vessels (Yachts, chartered Safari Ships, etc) may exist.
Leave in starmerc vessels, university or corporate research vessels,
Seeker mining ships, and most of the Couriers in known space.

Yes, I know the Scout Service runs most of the Couriers, but lots of
corporations, worlds and wealthy individuals will have a reason to 
maintain their own link with a world two or three parsecs away, or 
a trusted aide to send on roving inspection tours of facilities all over
a subsector or more. 

You can even leave in all the IISS, Imperial Navy and other government
ships that may be travelling the spacelanes incognito, as well as all
those "detached duty" Scout/Couriers. 

Total up all these ships for an area, say the Spinward Marches. How
many sub-1000 ton ships are running around this sector? This should
be important for the flavor of a TU, but I'm not sure if there is any good
way to tell. And if I want to go unnoticed in my nice 400-ton "blockade
runner", it's nice to know if I have 100 other 300-600 ton ships to hide
amongst or 10,000.

There are a lot of class E starports around. Some I've seen described 
have nothing for traffic control but a ground based beacon that a crew can
(if they want to) walk up to and key in their ship name and a date - maybe
(due to the low-tech of the computer at the beacon) any old name and
date they want to. Others might have just a beacon satellite that records 
transponder codes, and (if you send it the right code signal) will dump the 
last 1000 or so it recorded to you. If it erases afterwards, a Pirate would
love to get his hands on the transmit & dump code. <g>

Not to mention the temptation to try out your new Darrian Superhack-9000
computer intrusion program on that TL-9 beacon satellite, to try and
get it to change it's code records - or just pretend it had a glitch and
lose all of them.

(Adventure seed: A hijacking attempt on a Donosev-class 400tn Survey
Cruiser. It seems the ship has been on beacon-maintenance duty on
a string of frontier worlds, and has a lot of traffic data in it's memory
banks that might not exist anywhere else - and someone wants that
data to go away...)

If there are tens of thousands of little ships wandering around, and enough
class E starports that don't have any ability to forward traffic records
to a central clearing house, it can be easy for a trail to get fuzzy very
quickly. The Impies might not tolerate such a situation around Core,
but might have more important things on their minds in a frontier sector.
If you want to track a specific ship, you might have to send your agents
to a lot of planets and have them manually check records, do the legwork
of talking to witnesses, etc - all months (or years) after the event of
interest took place. Then they have to get all this information to a central
location for analysis. Then they have to send agents out to act on the
analysis - weeks or months each way.

Eventually your dragnet might make it possible to catch the _Sporting 
Jenny_ (constructed at Gram in 998, many owners, current owner 
suspected of piracy & hijacking, home port Ruie) next time she shows
her face. By that time, she may very well be _Barbara Allen_ (with pretty 
good papers to show that she is a salvage-yard build, of many worn but 
functional parts, first flight 1107 at Trin).

As usual, YTUMV.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 08:44:09 -0700
From: Richard Hough <richardh@walmsley.carcinogenic.com>
Subject: Re: Hello and a question

>>Look in your Traveller book regarding TL of a planet.
>>The maximum TL that can be LOCALLY PRODUCED.
>
>Unfortunately that can't be true in all cases, since the TU abounds in
>planets with too small a population to sustain its TL. So IMTU the
>planetary TL indicates the level that most of the population live at.

Good dodge, but I don't think it works either. Others have claimed M1100
has a Vargr system at TL 16 with a total population of two (2) individuals.
IIRC M0 has a few lo-pop TL 14 systems; one in Core sector with a class A
starport! Where are these systems importing their high-tech commodities
from?
- --
Richard Hough
richardh@walmsley.carcinogenic.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 17:44:06 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: TL questions

Eris Reddoch writes:

>On 06/30/98 at 04:52 AM,  Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> said:
> 
>>>Look in your Traveller book regarding TL of a planet.
>>>The maximum TL that can be LOCALLY PRODUCED.
> 
>>Unfortunately that can't be true in all cases, since the TU abounds
>>in planets with too small a population to sustain its TL. So IMTU the
>>planetary TL indicates the level that most of the population live at.
> 
>My take is just a little different from either of you.  IMTU the TL
>refers to the level of technology that is generally available, and
>that Travellers can get access to. The items might be widespread and
>available to everybody, or they might be restricted and available to
>only an elite, but are most likely available for sale to offworlders.

I don't see much of a difference between your definition and mine except
the bit about technology technology restricted to an elite but available
to travelling visitors. It seems to me that if items are of limited
supply (which would IMO usually be the case with restricted items) then
they would not generally be available; and if they were in general use
then they would most likely be available.
 
>IMTU, the tech might be inexpensive or expensive, it might be locally
>produced or it might be imported.  The only thing that a system's TL
>tells the Traveller is that when he gets there he should be able to
>find technological items at that level.

Pretty much the way I see it.

>Hopefully, he'll be able to buy them, but there's no assurance of that.  

IMTU the TL indicates the technology that is available at normal prices.
Higher tech items may or may not be available for purchase (the elite will
have imported some, but possibly only for their own use), but if it is
available, it will be more expensive.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 12:25:31 -0600
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: Re: Swor World names

>Nagelring       (Nail-ring). Dietrich's sword.

Yup, that's mine all right. ;-)

Ciao,

- --------------------
Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net
- --------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 13:50:20 -0400
From: "johannes" <johannes@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Small scale colonisation in Traveller v1.0 (long)

EXCELLENT!  This one post just made my subscribing to this list worthwhile.
I've been looking for something different from Raiders 'n Traders or
Corporate Brute Squad.  You just defined my next campaign, and I thank you.

John

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 13:50:22 -0500
From: Talisman <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: CD Rom

Is there a good program that will  generate detailed systems on the sector level on
the CD?

- --
My god, it's full of stars!


Http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/4467

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 13:53:02 -0500
From: Talisman <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: When Worlds Collide

David P. Summers wrote:

> ...so if you are in a space ship outside
> of a supernova you get a lethal dose just before you are blown
> to smithereens.

Timing is everything...lol

- --
My god, it's full of stars!


Http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/4467

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 13:55:19 -0500
From: Talisman <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Underground...

Peter H. Brenton wrote:

> Three words;
>
> Moon Base Alpha
>
> [tee hee hee heee...Slam!]
>

hmmm, I hadn't actualy realized just how close to Space 1999 I had come.  Drat
and double drat, I though that for once I had an original idea.

- --
My god, it's full of stars!


Http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/4467

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 14:02:05 -0500
From: Talisman <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: When Worlds Collide

Leonard Erickson wrote:

> Now consider that the total detector cross section was on the order of
> 100 square meters. So that gives a flux of 1e17 *interacting* neutrinos
> per square meter. The number of non-interacting ones doesn't bear
> thinking about.
>

This all just went WAY over my head!  Do you think you could say that again,
but dumb it down so that I can understand it with my less that educated mind.

- --
My god, it's full of stars!


Http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/4467

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 14:06:57 -0500
From: Talisman <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: When Worlds Collide

Leonard Erickson wrote:

> BTW, this means that if there's ever a supernova in or near the
> Imperium, folks will have about an hour's warning before the light gets
> there. The neutrino flux ought to *destroy* neutrino detectors for a
> hundred or so parsecs. :-)

So you are saying that a supernova would almost wipe out more than a sector?


- --
My god, it's full of stars!


Http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/4467

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 14:08:43 -0500
From: Talisman <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: When Worlds Collide

Walter Smith wrote:

> And here, ladies and gentlemen, we have the origin of the planet first
> mentioned in this thread - the whole planet is an artificial exploration
> ship, the population is the remnants of the crew, and there were
> Final War saboteurs on board who made trouble (enough that "civilization"
> on board the ship fell, but not enough to destroy it). Now it's come home,
> and has stuck itself into a habitable zone of a star while the sentient
> computer at it's core tries to figure out where Grandfather went.

Buffered planetoid no doubt.


- --
My god, it's full of stars!


Http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/4467

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #617
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Tuesday, June 30 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 618



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Megatraveller I: The Zhodani Conspiracy
Re: Armed merchants
Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)
Martian Metal Minis for sale
Re: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)
Re: Small scale colonisation in Traveller v1.0 (long)
Re: When Worlds Collide
Re: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)
Re: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)
Re MegaCorps
Re: Local defense budget: Talking about curves
Re: TL questions
Appearance of Jump Space
Current Games
Re: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)
Re: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)
Re MegaCorps

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 15:18:19 -0400
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Megatraveller I: The Zhodani Conspiracy

- -----Original Message-----
From: Peter H. Brenton <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Megatraveller I: The Zhodani Conspiracy


>For a similar good time on a classic game look for Sentinel Worlds.
>Similar and traveller like, but harder to solve as I recall.
>
>Pete
>
Excellent game from 1989! I also enjoyed Space Rogue from that era.  A fun
time for all.
Thom

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 11:47:24 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Armed merchants

Tue, 30 Jun 1998 06:30:19 +0200 (METDST), Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
>>I've been talking about not leaving behind enough info to be caught.
>>That includes not only if the information is sufficient to identify
>>them, but also to catch up with them.

>If I interpret that sentence correctly, you are arguing that a ship which
>is engaged in normal merchant operations will somehow be able to avoid
>leaving behind enough information for a subsequent investigation to be
>able to establish it was visiting this world on that date. How exactly
>do you think that is possible? Every passenger it carries and every cargo
>it delivers leaves behind witnesses and records that it was there. And
>then there is the still irrefutable fact that if there is any sort of
>starport authority on the planet (which means all with Class D and better
>starports and at least some with Class E starports),

All this will show _a_ ship visted.  If you just don't carry passengers
(and even if you do, but it is a lot harder) then you just have records
that can be faked and witnesses of people who they didn't pay much attention
to at the time (try asking someone at an airport counter to remember
one person they served weeks ago out of all the people the served
during that period without a photograph).  And even if you have
a big brother kind of situation with cameras on everyone (and not
everyone sees the Traveller universe this way, as we have established)
then you just have a picture of one person and bunch of fake ship
records, how do you track him down in a huge Empire where
communications may not even move as fast as he does?

And then you get into the question of how they tie this into
a piratacy that occured, esp. since most pirates will just
skip trading on the world they did the piracy on.

>it will have to use
>its real transponder code.

Well, as you know, some don't agree with you on this.  As you remember,
many of us don't see communications in the Traveller universe as being
fast enough to allow unique codes for each ship to be transmited
to every location before the ship can get there.  Nor would this
be an easy task as it is in the modern world where you just send
it out by telephone.  Without that you rely on some sort of
untamperable transponder which is also something people disagre
wtih.

>Well, I assume that faking engine and hull numbers is a whole lot more
>difficult than using fake transponder codes.

Why?  If they are ingraved they are easier to change and if they
are electronic they aren't any different.

>>This gets back into "fool proof records" and kind of records (do you know
>>where they went after they left?  If not, you have to check different
>>destinations, increasing the complexity cost of the operation).

>A list of ship departures and arrivals for each system is trivially easily
>to procure. They will contain a deal of errors, of course, but you can
>easily eliminate most of the ships on those lists based on the fact that
>they were demonstrably elsewhere. The remaining number of ships will have
>to be checked individually.

Well, unless you assume that a pirate attacks a ship and then decides
to try and trade at that world (the height of stupidity), then you
have to try and cover all the worlds he might have visited (in
2 or 3 jumps in case he doesn't try trading at the very next world).
You are going to get a lot of ships like the general type.  You are
going to then comb those records ones that have been faked or where
the pirate has failed to cover a crucial bit of info.  I do, in fact,
think that happens and some pirates get caught that way.  I don't
think it comes close to catching them all.

>Yep. I argued that even if it costs a few man-years, it would be worth it.
>If the cost turns out to be counted in man-hours instead, it just makes my
>argument that much stronger.

Actually, my main response, that has been lost, was that it wasn't a
matter of time.  The records are either going to be faked well enough
for him to get away or they aren't and this will be shown up
fairly quickly.  The amount of time doesn't matter.  However, if
you have to spend man-years on each ship that jumps to pick out
the pirates, it is _not_ going to be cost effective.  If you
have to spend man hours it will, and this is something that
catches some fraction of the pirates.

>>If you think they are forwarded to the subsector headquarters, it could go
>>either way.  It depends on whether they want to bother with info for each
>>ship.

>If they are taxing the ships' activities, they will be happy to bother with
>info for each and every one of them.

Only that each ship paid taxes.  They won't care who they are if
they paid on so there will be no need for the kind of info to
be forwarded.  In fact, it is possible for it be conciously removed
to encourage criminals to pay taxes.  In the USA it is quite possible
for you to pay taxes on illegal income an not get caught.  Some
do just that to avoid Al Capone's fate (the never caught him for
mob activities, just for income tax evasion).  This all is also
irrelevant if the Imperium doesn't tax ships directly.

>>Witnesses can be valuable in tracking criminals, but if they were
>>that foolproof the most wanted list in the US wouldn't exist.

>That comparison would mean something only if all people in the US had to
>visit City Hall and show their identity papers in each new town they
>arrived in.

Well, this get back to the kind of universe we see Traveller as being.
This has been disputed.  However, as I mention above, I'm not convinced
this would be as effective you portray.

>>Unless he does wilderness refueling.
>
>What are you talking about? This ship is engaged in regular merchant
>activities. Even if they did include wilderness refuelling (I don't
>want to revive that argument, so I'll assume it for purposes of
>argument), he would still have to visit the starport afterwards to
>do business.

He is going to go several worlds over before he does business.
No pirate is going to attack another ship and then blithly
land at he same system.

>>Ship size is a pretty thin reed to catch a pirate on.  With
>>standard hulls, there are a lot of ships in the 200-600 tone range.

>I notice that you grasp at the extreme. Ship size is the absolutely
>lowest limit of information you will have.

You presented this a minimum that was adequate to catch pirates.
I was pointing out that it isn't even close to the task.

How much more info will depend on how much more you have (which
have disuputed before) and how much more you need (which we have
disputed).  Thus, the question hangs on assumptions and questions
that people don't agree on (which we knew :-).

[Things already covered snipped....]

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 12:33:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)

Talisman writes:
> 
> 
> Leonard Erickson wrote:
> 
> > BTW, this means that if there's ever a supernova in or near the
> > Imperium, folks will have about an hour's warning before the light gets
> > there. The neutrino flux ought to *destroy* neutrino detectors for a
> > hundred or so parsecs. :-)
> 
> So you are saying that a supernova would almost wipe out more than a
> sector? 

Not sure he's actually saying that, but its true.  However, the warning would
be quite long (could actually be an interesting scenario -- a supernova occurs
at location X, it arrives at these worlds in these times, organize the
evacuation).  Hm..wonder what the lethal distance for a supernova is?  Does
anyone actually know?  I'd guess your typical supernova (say, 100 billion solar
luminosities) would cause drastic climate effects out to a couple of parsecs,
and throw out enough hard radiation to kill surface life out to some ten
parsecs, but that's just a wild ballpark guess, anyone have real numbers?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 15:40:33 -0400
From: Jim Berhalter <jberhalt@magicnet.net>
Subject: Martian Metal Minis for sale

I am posting this on behalf of a friend (please contact him directly at
rthomas@magicnet.net)


          Old Traveller Miniatures for Sale

Hello fellow gamers. I have a number of old Traveller minis that have been
gathering dust  for a long time, that I have finally decided  I can part
with. Almost all of them are the old "Martian Metals" 15mm Traveller line.
Now it’s my understanding that most of these molds were destroyed in a fire
at Martian Metals many years ago. Maybe someone out there can confirm this,
but I do know that I have NEVER,in  almost twenty years of attending cons
,seen  these miniatures offered for sale. I have never seen them ANYWHERE
else, except in my collection.  I mention this not only to make them sound
extremely rare (ohh,ahhh) but to find out once and for all if the fire
story is true. I know that there are still hardcore fans of the best
science fiction role-playing system ever  written that may have the answer.

Well, on with the list:

20 Vargr mercenaries (10 painted)
24 Aslan Warriors (mixed vacc suit and combat armor)
11 Stinkin’ Zo (Zhodani in combat armor, painted)
11 Imperial Strike Team (I think that's what they were called.Painted)
12 Sword Worlder Troops.
  7 Adventures in vacc suit
32 Adventures in various garb (some in military dress, some in civilian.29
are painted).Most are armed with pistols, laser and otherwise, and
including 6 female adventures.
10 Imperial citizens.

Also, I have a few of the old "Laserburn" figures that you can use for
Traveller:

6 Redemptionist Rebels.
4 Adventurers.
3 Marines in Dreadnought armor.
These are pretty cool looking figs.

That makes a total of 137 figures. Now I  have no idea what to ask for the
figs so if you are interested in the them  please make me an offer.  All
offers will be considered, as I need spending money for historicon. Please
e-mail me as soon as you can as I need to make the sale  quickly. Also, I
will be happy to answer any questions that you may have. 

Thanks, 

Rick

rthomas@magicnet.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 16:13:37 -0400
From: Matthew Harelick <matth@CYBERNEX.NET>
Subject: Re: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)

- --------------AF6280E413EF343801518FB4
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Wouldn't Imperial technology have some kind of warning system about when a star
might SuperNova?

Anthony Jackson wrote:

> Talisman writes:
> >
> >
> > Leonard Erickson wrote:
> >
> > > BTW, this means that if there's ever a supernova in or near the
> > > Imperium, folks will have about an hour's warning before the light gets
> > > there. The neutrino flux ought to *destroy* neutrino detectors for a
> > > hundred or so parsecs. :-)
> >
> > So you are saying that a supernova would almost wipe out more than a
> > sector?
>
> Not sure he's actually saying that, but its true.  However, the warning would
> be quite long (could actually be an interesting scenario -- a supernova occurs
> at location X, it arrives at these worlds in these times, organize the
> evacuation).  Hm..wonder what the lethal distance for a supernova is?  Does
> anyone actually know?  I'd guess your typical supernova (say, 100 billion solar
> luminosities) would cause drastic climate effects out to a couple of parsecs,
> and throw out enough hard radiation to kill surface life out to some ten
> parsecs, but that's just a wild ballpark guess, anyone have real numbers?



- --
Matthew S. Harelick             Software Developer      PhD Candidate
matth@cybernex.net              matth@unipress.com      matth@time.njit.edu
http://www2.cybernex.net/~matth



- --------------AF6280E413EF343801518FB4
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>
Wouldn't Imperial technology have some kind of warning system about when
a star might SuperNova?

<P>Anthony Jackson wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>Talisman writes:
<BR>>
<BR>>
<BR>> Leonard Erickson wrote:
<BR>>
<BR>> > BTW, this means that if there's ever a supernova in or near the
<BR>> > Imperium, folks will have about an hour's warning before the light
gets
<BR>> > there. The neutrino flux ought to *destroy* neutrino detectors
for a
<BR>> > hundred or so parsecs. :-)
<BR>>
<BR>> So you are saying that a supernova would almost wipe out more than
a
<BR>> sector?

<P>Not sure he's actually saying that, but its true.&nbsp; However, the
warning would
<BR>be quite long (could actually be an interesting scenario -- a supernova
occurs
<BR>at location X, it arrives at these worlds in these times, organize
the
<BR>evacuation).&nbsp; Hm..wonder what the lethal distance for a supernova
is?&nbsp; Does
<BR>anyone actually know?&nbsp; I'd guess your typical supernova (say,
100 billion solar
<BR>luminosities) would cause drastic climate effects out to a couple of
parsecs,
<BR>and throw out enough hard radiation to kill surface life out to some
ten
<BR>parsecs, but that's just a wild ballpark guess, anyone have real numbers?</BLOCKQUOTE>
&nbsp;
<PRE>--&nbsp;
Matthew S. Harelick&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Software Developer&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; PhD Candidate
matth@cybernex.net&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; matth@unipress.com&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; matth@time.njit.edu
<A HREF="http://www2.cybernex.net/~matth">http://www2.cybernex.net/~matth</A></PRE>
&nbsp;</HTML>

- --------------AF6280E413EF343801518FB4--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 13:00:54 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Small scale colonisation in Traveller v1.0 (long)

I'd like to second that! If this is what happens when I rant and rave,
I'll do it more often!

johannes wrote:
> 
> EXCELLENT!  This one post just made my subscribing to this list worthwhile.
> I've been looking for something different from Raiders 'n Traders or
> Corporate Brute Squad.  You just defined my next campaign, and I thank you.
> 
> John

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 13:03:24 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: When Worlds Collide

You know, with all these genetically altered beings running around with
no idea of how they got that way...makes me wonder where I put those
"Metamorphosis Alpha" rules ;-)

Talisman wrote:
> 
> Walter Smith wrote:
> 
> > And here, ladies and gentlemen, we have the origin of the planet first
> > mentioned in this thread - the whole planet is an artificial exploration
> > ship, the population is the remnants of the crew, and there were
> > Final War saboteurs on board who made trouble (enough that "civilization"
> > on board the ship fell, but not enough to destroy it). Now it's come home,
> > and has stuck itself into a habitable zone of a star while the sentient
> > computer at it's core tries to figure out where Grandfather went.
> 
> Buffered planetoid no doubt.
> 
> --
> My god, it's full of stars!
> 
> Http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/4467

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 13:05:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)

Matthew Harelick writes:
> Wouldn't Imperial technology have some kind of warning system about when a
> star might SuperNova?

Sure.  The problem is actually getting up the resolve to do anything about the
problem, imperial technology can't prevent a supernova, and the Imperium is
pretty clearly slow to react to even immediate threats.  Most likely imperial
technology will know 'this star will go supernova soon' (say, next couple
thousand years) and then will get more warning within a year or so of the
actual nova.  That's plenty of slip to ignore for a long time and then suddenly
have to deal with a problem

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 13:32:48 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)

Warning system yes, effective evacuations procedures?? That's another
question altogether...what do you do, fr'instance, if a star 3 parsecs
away from say...Vland goes supernova? How do you evacuate and resettle a
Pop 9 system?

Matthew Harelick wrote:
> 
> Wouldn't Imperial technology have some kind of warning system about
> when a star might SuperNova?
> 
> Anthony Jackson wrote:
> 
> > Talisman writes:
> > >
> > >
> > > Leonard Erickson wrote:
> > >
> > > > BTW, this means that if there's ever a supernova in or near the
> > > > Imperium, folks will have about an hour's warning before the
> > light gets
> > > > there. The neutrino flux ought to *destroy* neutrino detectors
> > for a
> > > > hundred or so parsecs. :-)
> > >
> > > So you are saying that a supernova would almost wipe out more than
> > a
> > > sector?
> >
> > Not sure he's actually saying that, but its true.  However, the
> > warning would
> > be quite long (could actually be an interesting scenario -- a
> > supernova occurs
> > at location X, it arrives at these worlds in these times, organize
> > the
> > evacuation).  Hm..wonder what the lethal distance for a supernova
> > is?  Does
> > anyone actually know?  I'd guess your typical supernova (say, 100
> > billion solar
> > luminosities) would cause drastic climate effects out to a couple of
> > parsecs,
> > and throw out enough hard radiation to kill surface life out to some
> > ten
> > parsecs, but that's just a wild ballpark guess, anyone have real
> > numbers?
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Matthew S. Harelick             Software Developer      PhD Candidate
> matth@cybernex.net              matth@unipress.com      matth@time.njit.edu
> http://www2.cybernex.net/~matth
> 
> 

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 12:41:25 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re MegaCorps

Oberlindes lines extended at least as far as the far side of the domain of
Vland; Margaret's Spouse was an Oberlindes Nobleman, whoo happened to bring
with some corporate assets (MT RebSB).

So, while it may not be "Imperium Wide", it is multi-domain. And it holds
an LIC. So.... It's a small megacorp.

Al morai has no references outside the marches and deneb sectors. Maybe a
domain Megacorp.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 14:24:28 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Local defense budget: Talking about curves

On 06/30/98 at 10:09 AM,  Michael and MJ Houghton
<herveus@access.digex.net> said:

>> I think an S-curve is what Michael is asking for. 
 
>> I think a formula based on something like, x+x^2-x^3, gives a basic S
>> shape, unfortuately it isn't bounded and will quickly go negative.
 
>> The best simulation I've found for a rise, plateau, rise, plateau, etc
>> cycle is something like, sin(x)+x.  Plot a chart with a base of x = 1
>> with an increase of 0.1 to see what I mean.
 
>I've played around a bit with it and what I want would look like an
>exponential curve that becomes logarithmic at a certain point.  This
>maintains a monotonicly increasing curve that grows slowly. Now,
>given this curve, write a function that plots this way on 
>semi-logarithmic paper, where the y-axis is logarithmic and the
>x-axis is linear.

IOW, a typical S-curve, or learning-curve. ;->

I'd like to see a good algorithm for a curve that simulates a
exponential/logarithmic curve, too.  I think that fits a goodly number
of functions I'd like to model. 

Eris

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 15:09:08 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: TL questions

On 06/30/98 at 05:44 PM,  Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> said:

>>My take is just a little different from either of you.  IMTU the TL
>>refers to the level of technology that is generally available, and
>>that Travellers can get access to. The items might be widespread and
>>available to everybody, or they might be restricted and available to
>>only an elite, but are most likely available for sale to offworlders.

>I don't see much of a difference between your definition and mine
>except the bit about technology technology restricted to an elite but
>available to travelling visitors. It seems to me that if items are of
>limited supply (which would IMO usually be the case with restricted
>items) then they would not generally be available; and if they were
>in general use then they would most likely be available.

What is available for purchase by outsiders at a Starport and what is
available for general purchase by inhabitants of a system don't have
to be the same thing.  First, I can see many situations where a ruling
elite might want to keep technologies away from the general
population, but wants them for itself and wants the "hard currency" it
gets from selling them to tourists/travelers passing though...there
are situations like that RW on Earth.  ;-> Second, items for the
repair and maintenace of starships might be available at, let's say,
TL 12, at the starport, but TL 12 *comsumer* items are generally
unavailable to anybody.

I see the UWP's as a guide to *travelers* and that's about all. 
Actual, TLs for internal use in a system can be very different.  As
I've said, this is IMTU, what you do IYTU is your business, and you
know I don't recognize ACTU.
 
>>IMTU, the tech might be inexpensive or expensive, it might be locally
>>produced or it might be imported.  The only thing that a system's TL
>>tells the Traveller is that when he gets there he should be able to
>>find technological items at that level.

>Pretty much the way I see it.

>>Hopefully, he'll be able to buy them, but there's no assurance of that.  

>IMTU the TL indicates the technology that is available at normal
>prices. Higher tech items may or may not be available for purchase
>(the elite will have imported some, but possibly only for their own
>use), but if it is available, it will be more expensive.

Well, I don't assure players that their PC's will find anything at
"normal prices" ever!  The UWP's TL is a guide as to what is
*probably* available in the system, but there is no guarantee on real
availability, quality, or price.  

Maybe it's a difference between *running* a campaign and designing
things.  As a GM, I don't want the players to feel sure about
anything, and the only rule they can count on is that the GM is the
only one that makes the rules.  As a designer, things are totally
different, as designer I want certainty.


Eris

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 15:25:12 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Appearance of Jump Space

On 06/29/98 at 01:35 AM,  owner-traveller-digest@mpgn.com
(Traveller-digest) said:

>But you've brought up an important limit on the "appearance" of jump
>space. If it *doesn't* appear to be as "black" as normal space, then
>the radiators don't work as well. So that kills all the "strange
>shifting colors" descriptions. If the colors are bright enough to
>see, they'll be *heating* the ship. 

>I go with the "jump space is just featureless black" and if anything
>gets too far from the hull, it doesn't come back. That includes
>photons. So the "effective temperature" of jump space is absolute
>zero. Making your radiators somewhat *more* efficient than in normal
>space (where the parts of the sky that don't contain stars are at an
>effective temp of 3 Kelvin).

I go with jump space being featureless as well..the true definition of
nothingness.  However, I still use the description of shifting,
swirling colors.  

These colors are caused when the residual jump mass slowly passes
through the jump bubble into jspace resulting in a strange radiation
effect.  Different elements and velocities of the atoms as they cross
the barrier produce different wavelengthed emissions, thus producing
different colors.  The swirling is a normal effect related to the
lines of force produced by the jump grid. 

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 15:10:52 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Current Games

I've been meaning to ask this of everybody for some time now.

Are you currently playing in or GMing a Traveller game?  If you are,
how about posting a brief synopsis of it to the list.

I will if you will.  ;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 14:04:46 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)

At 01:32 PM 6/30/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Warning system yes, effective evacuations procedures?? That's another
>question altogether...what do you do, fr'instance, if a star 3 parsecs
>away from say...Vland goes supernova? How do you evacuate and resettle a
>Pop 9 system?

Send two lab ships.  :)
- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
jt- au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 14:07:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)

Bruce Johnson writes:
> Warning system yes, effective evacuations procedures?? That's another
> question altogether...what do you do, fr'instance, if a star 3 parsecs
> away from say...Vland goes supernova? How do you evacuate and resettle a
> Pop 9 system?

Bah, have real fun.  Consider Deneb (Deneb/Deneb 0305 B445A21-C).  Orbits a
class Ia red supergiant (unstable?  Nahhhh.  Great place to settle tens of
billions of people).

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 14:31:02 +0000
From: edjs@bitslayer.net
Subject: Re MegaCorps

> Date:          Tue, 30 Jun 1998 12:41:25 -0800
> From:          "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
>
> Oberlindes lines extended at least as far as the far side of the domain of
> Vland; Margaret's Spouse was an Oberlindes Nobleman, whoo happened to bring
> with some corporate assets (MT RebSB).

Margret's spouse is an upper-management Tukera (Count Blaine Trulla Tukera). 
Oberlindes operates primarily in the Spinward Marches' Regina and Aramis 
subsectors (the Traveller Adventure involved their expansion into Aramis) 
and the Vargr extents.

> Al morai has no references outside the marches and deneb sectors. Maybe a
> domain Megacorp.

Al Morai is a sector-wide company, operating in the Matches and into Deneb and 
Trojan Reaches.


- --
Edward Swatschek
edjs@bitslayer.net - edjs@mindlink.net - ICQ 2684960
http://home.mindlink.net/edjs/

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #618
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Tuesday, June 30 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 619



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Re MegaCorps
Re: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)
Re: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)
re: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)
Re: MegaCorps
Re:Appearance of Jump Space
Re: Re MegaCorps
re: New web site
Re: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)
re: CD Rom
Re MegaCorps
Re: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)
Re: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)
Cool traveller-ish animation on web
Re: Re MegaCorps
Re: Re MegaCorps
Re: Martian Metal Minis for sale
Re: Armed merchants
Re: Hello and a question

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 14:33:08 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Re MegaCorps

William F. Hostman wrote:
> 
> Oberlindes lines extended at least as far as the far side of the domain of
> Vland; Margaret's Spouse was an Oberlindes Nobleman, whoo happened to bring
> with some corporate assets (MT RebSB).

I thought she was married to Blaine Tukera. In fact I'me positive of
this because her faction is listed as having the Vermene as their intel
arm, and the basis of her 'keep the trains running' outlook.

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 16:33:50 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)

On 06/30/98 at 12:33 PM,  Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com> said:

>> So you are saying that a supernova would almost wipe out more than a
>> sector? 

>Not sure he's actually saying that, but its true.  However, the
>warning would be quite long (could actually be an interesting
>scenario -- a supernova occurs at location X, it arrives at these
>worlds in these times, organize the evacuation).  Hm..wonder what the
>lethal distance for a supernova is?  Does anyone actually know?  I'd
>guess your typical supernova (say, 100 billion solar luminosities)
>would cause drastic climate effects out to a couple of parsecs, and
>throw out enough hard radiation to kill surface life out to some ten
>parsecs, but that's just a wild ballpark guess, anyone have real
>numbers?

No real numbers, but a gaming suggestion.  As the effect should reduce
by range how about something like...

     Die-off from 
      Radiation

 Parsecs   % Killed
 ===================
    1        6/6
    2        5/6
    3        4/6
    4        3/6
    5        2/6
    6        1/6
 
 Modifiers:  -1 Inside building (concrete/brick)
             -2 Underground  (+3 meters of dirt/rock)
             -3 Deep underground (+10 meters of dirt/rock)
             
Ecosystems close to a supernova would be destroyed no matter what
anybody does, but digging in deep and waiting it out would allow many
people to survive and begin to recolonize the surface after the
particle wave passes over.


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 14:53:33 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)

Doug, the Template Warrior on a Luge wrote:

> 
> At 01:32 PM 6/30/98 -0700, you wrote:
> >Warning system yes, effective evacuations procedures?? That's another
> >question altogether...what do you do, fr'instance, if a star 3 parsecs
> >away from say...Vland goes supernova? How do you evacuate and resettle a
> >Pop 9 system?
> 
> Send two lab ships.  :)

I said _evacuate_ not _simulate the effects of the supernova_. I know
the two sound and look very similar...;-)


- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 14:55:48 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)

>Hm..wonder what the lethal distance for a supernova is?  Does
>anyone actually know?
It's a poorly known number; between a few parsecs and 10-20 parsecs is a
reasonable range for guesses.

On the other hand, the supernova rate for the whole galaxy is one per 10-50
years, or about one per million years per sector, so there should be 
relatively few in the Imperium.

(Although I'm considering setting a campaing in a Islands-like subsector that
has been completely cut off from the Imperium by a supernova on the only
jump route to Imperial space...) 

For even more excitement, a gamma-ray-burst event (if the numbers for the
Really Big Burst recently observed are right) might have a kill radius of 
fifty to a hundred parsecs.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 17:21:16 -0500
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: MegaCorps

Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE> wrote:

> Imperial Lines
>
> All of these Megacorps had logos published, which I made vectorgraphics of

As someone mentioned, Imperiallines isn't one of the megacorps officially.
The original reference suggested that Imperiallines was a subsector or
sector-wide company operating in the Marches.  The concept seems to have
been that other names and corporations that weren't obviously related were
used outside the Marches to maintain the cover.  (Besides being a good idea,
this means the referee can use, say, "Kashkanun Freight" as a stand-in for
Imperiallines once the players know about that secret.)

Otherwise, in scale it *is* Imperium-wide....

  -- Steve Bonneville

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 15:31:51 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re:Appearance of Jump Space

Tue, 30 Jun 1998 15:25:12 -0500, Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>

>>But you've brought up an important limit on the "appearance" of jump
>>space. If it *doesn't* appear to be as "black" as normal space, then
>>the radiators don't work as well. So that kills all the "strange
>>shifting colors" descriptions. If the colors are bright enough to
>>see, they'll be *heating* the ship.

>>I go with the "jump space is just featureless black" and if anything
>>gets too far from the hull, it doesn't come back. That includes
>>photons. So the "effective temperature" of jump space is absolute
>>zero. Making your radiators somewhat *more* efficient than in normal
>>space (where the parts of the sky that don't contain stars are at an
>>effective temp of 3 Kelvin).

>I go with jump space being featureless as well..the true definition of
>nothingness.  However, I still use the description of shifting,
>swirling colors.

I tell my players; "Close your eyes.  That is what it looks
like except without all the blackness."

_______________________________________________________________
DSummers@Mail.ARC.NASA.gov

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 18:34:49 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re MegaCorps

In a message dated 6/30/98 13:39:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU writes:

<< Oberlindes lines extended at least as far as the far side of the domain of
 Vland; Margaret's Spouse was an Oberlindes Nobleman, >>

I think that should be Lord Blaine Tukera, not Baron Oberlindes

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 23:29:27 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: New web site

Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com> wrote:


>No more vehicle archives?  Mind if I host 'em at the Traveller GearHead Ring
>site?

The vehicles are at Doug Berry's site IIRC.

The software is at mine (see sig).

Rob's other website should have the rest of the material.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 15:52:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
Subject: Re: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)

On Tue, 30 Jun 1998, Eris Reddoch wrote:

> Ecosystems close to a supernova would be destroyed no matter what
> anybody does, but digging in deep and waiting it out would allow many
> people to survive and begin to recolonize the surface after the
> particle wave passes over.

And how long will it take to pass? Makes a difference if you have a SLOW
rotational period, eh? Imagine a world where HALF of it was wiped clean in
this fashin while the other side remained relatively unscathed (minus
obvious global effects).

Ben

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 23:45:10 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: CD Rom

Talisman <shimmer@mhtc.net> wrote:

>Is there a good program that will  generate detailed systems on the sector
>level on
>the CD?

If it's on, Rob Prior's Metator does great system level generation, but not
at the whole sector level.

It's a MacOS program...

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 23:51:58 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re MegaCorps

"William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU> wrote:

>Oberlindes lines extended at least as far as the far side of the domain of
>Vland; Margaret's Spouse was an Oberlindes Nobleman, whoo happened to bring
>with some corporate assets (MT RebSB).

I thought that he was Count Blaine Trulla *Tukera* ....

.. unless Oberlindes won the Traveller Adventure tradewar by a big margin IYTU.

(p49 Rebellion Sourcebook, MT)

Point taken about other 'domain' megacorps though...

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 16:12:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)

Brannon Boren writes:

> And how long will it take to pass? Makes a difference if you have a SLOW
> rotational period, eh? Imagine a world where HALF of it was wiped clean in
> this fashin while the other side remained relatively unscathed (minus
> obvious global effects).

Unless your world is tidelocked (in which case it has a pretty weird ecosystem
to begin with) its rotation period isn't very important, supernovas usually
last for weeks.  Of course, depending on the tilt of its orbit as compared to
the supernova, some portion of the planet near one pole or the other (half the
planet, under ideal circumstances) will not be illuminated).

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 16:33:56 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)

The Crab Nebula was a supernova that was witnessed by Chinese and other
astronomers..according to the Encyclopedia Britannica:

"The supernova was visible in daylight for 23 days and at night for
almost 2 years." 

It is about 5000 ly from earth, or a little over 1500 parsecs away. Hey!
I think we just found Talisman someplace his cave dwellers are running
from! 

Yes this time I double checked how many light yers in a parsec: 3.258.
 

Brannon Boren wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 30 Jun 1998, Eris Reddoch wrote:
> 
> > Ecosystems close to a supernova would be destroyed no matter what
> > anybody does, but digging in deep and waiting it out would allow many
> > people to survive and begin to recolonize the surface after the
> > particle wave passes over.
> 
> And how long will it take to pass? Makes a difference if you have a SLOW
> rotational period, eh? Imagine a world where HALF of it was wiped clean in
> this fashin while the other side remained relatively unscathed (minus
> obvious global effects).
> 
> Ben

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 17:00:18 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Cool traveller-ish animation on web

Go to the Internet raytrace competition site at http://www.irtc.org/

Check out "Air Freight", the January-April 2nd place animation winner.
COOL!

It's a 3 mb download, but definitely worth it, very well done.

(First place is great, too)

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 01:44:55 +0200
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Re MegaCorps

William F. Hostman wrote:
> 
> Oberlindes lines extended at least as far as the far side of the domain of
> Vland; Margaret's Spouse was an Oberlindes Nobleman, whoo happened to bring
> with some corporate assets (MT RebSB).
That was tukera! Margaret was married to a tukera (and accordind to the Traveller Adventure)
Tukera and Oberlindes are not on speaking terms!

> So, while it may not be "Imperium Wide", it is multi-domain. And it holds
> an LIC. So.... It's a small megacorp.
There is no such thing as a small megacorp. 
The term excludes small corps.megacorps either are megacorps or they are no megacorps?
(Do i make any sense here?)
Megacorp=imperiumwide, many different branches of business!
- -- 
					 Volker
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
     /----------------------------------------------------------\
    /  Volker A. Greimann  Am Weidengraben 86, C6  54296 Trier   \
   /  grei5001@uni-trier.de   GERMANY    greimann@geocities.com   \
  /  ICQ:9767142      http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061   \
 /  Please don´t try to stop me-I´m just barely ahead of insanity   \
/--------------------------------------------------------------------\

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 21:06:11 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: Re MegaCorps

At 02:31 PM 6/30/98 +0000, you wrote:

>> Oberlindes lines extended at least as far as the far side of the domain of
>> Vland; Margaret's Spouse was an Oberlindes Nobleman, whoo happened to bring
>> with some corporate assets (MT RebSB).
>
>Margret's spouse is an upper-management Tukera (Count Blaine Trulla Tukera). 
>Oberlindes operates primarily in the Spinward Marches' Regina and Aramis 
>subsectors (the Traveller Adventure involved their expansion into Aramis) 
>and the Vargr extents.
>
>> Al morai has no references outside the marches and deneb sectors. Maybe a
>> domain Megacorp.
>
>Al Morai is a sector-wide company, operating in the Matches and into Deneb
and 
>Trojan Reaches.

Al Morai is also a feeder line and owned by Tukera Lines.

Kurt Feltenberger
kurt@blazenet.net



http://www.igateway.com/clients/kurt/mp  Morrow Project Site

http://www.igateway.com/clients/kurt/pj PJ the Welsh Terrier Site

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 19:58:17 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Martian Metal Minis for sale

At 03:40 pm 6/30/98 -0400, you wrote:
>I am posting this on behalf of a friend (please contact him directly
at
>rthomas@magicnet.net)
>
>
>          Old Traveller Miniatures for Sale
>
>Hello fellow gamers. I have a number of old Traveller minis that
have been
>gathering dust  for a long time, that I have finally decided  I can
part
>with. Almost all of them are the old "Martian Metals" 15mm Traveller
line.
>Now it’s my understanding that most of these molds were destroyed in
a fire


	Hmm ... molds destroyed==can't reproduce.
	Hmm ... certain TML members, at times, have indicated they cast
their own figures.
	Hmm ... people want miniatures.

	HMM ... what are the chances of these miniatures finding their way
to the above-referenced members, along with a request to MM* for
permission to reproduce and sell?

(*MM=Martian Metals in this context, not Marc Miller)
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 04:13:50 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Armed merchants

David P. Summers writes:

>Tue, 30 Jun 1998 06:30:19 +0200 (METDST), Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>

>>If I interpret that sentence correctly, you are arguing that a ship which
>>is engaged in normal merchant operations will somehow be able to avoid
>>leaving behind enough information for a subsequent investigation to be
>>able to establish it was visiting this world on that date. How exactly
>>do you think that is possible? Every passenger it carries and every cargo
>>it delivers leaves behind witnesses and records that it was there. And
>>then there is the still irrefutable fact that if there is any sort of
>>starport authority on the planet (which means all with Class D and better
>>starports and at least some with Class E starports),
> 
>All this will show _a_ ship visted. If you just don't carry passengers
>(and even if you do, but it is a lot harder) then you just have records
>that can be faked and witnesses of people who they didn't pay much
>attention to at the time (try asking someone at an airport counter to
>remember one person they served weeks ago out of all the people the served
>during that period without a photograph).

Ah, but we are not talking about people that pass through an airport by
the hundreds every day, we are talking about starships that are visiting
Class E starports which only gets a few visitors per month.

>And even if you have a big brother kind of situation with cameras on
>everyone (and not everyone sees the Traveller universe this way, as we
>have established)

Well, I'm assuming for purposes of this argument that the authorities are
not even taking a few cheap, basic precautions, because its been years
and years since the last pirate attack, and you claim that in such a
case preventive measures will inevitably deteriorate. I don't agree with
you about that, but I'm trying to meet you halfway, so what the hell,
none of the so-called 'Big Brother' stuff.

>then you just have a picture of one person and bunch of fake ship records,

Well no, you have the exact ship class (I refuse to believe that you can
disguise a ship against close visual inspection), which reduce the number
of possible ships to a few hundred to begin with. That's assuming that this
merchant is running the risk of faking his identity long before he even
knows that he is going to luck into an opportunity to capture someone.
Which is a pretty silly assumption IMO.

>how do you track him down in a huge Empire where communications may not
>even move as fast as he does?

If he has gone back to normal merchant activity he is not outrunning the
Xboat network, let alone the Scout and Navy couriers. Come to that, if he
is flying a more or less normal merchant ship, perhaps a little souped up,
then he is not going to outrun them even if he is just jumping his two
parsecs per week. Still, I agree that if he scoots the moment he has
commited the crime then he stands a good chance of getting out of the
Imperium. In fact, I do believe I stated that just a few exchanges ago.
But that isn't what we're discussing, now is it? We're discussing
someone "running with the fishes", doing legitimate business in between
the occasional opportune capture. 
 
>And then you get into the question of how they tie this into a piratcy
>that occured, esp. since most pirates will just skip trading on the world
>they did the piracy on.

That really goes without saying (though it leaves unexplained why he was
in the system to begin with if he didn't have any business in it), but it
just isn't enough, because he can't change the fact that he left a system
within range the previous week.
 
>>it will have to use its real transponder code.
>
>Well, as you know, some don't agree with you on this.

Yes I know, but I still don't know (because you still haven't told me) how
you imagine that a ship can engage in legitimate merchant operations without
the people it does business with getting a pretty good idea about it. And
that's assuming it never carries freight. Or perhaps you think that there
are plenty of people willing to turn over a cargo to someone of whose
identity they don't have a pretty good idea? 

>As you remember, many of us don't see communications in the Traveller
>universe as being fast enough to allow unique codes for each ship to be
>transmited to every location before the ship can get there.

So? Neither do I. But I do believe that it is fast enough to have codes
for 99% of all ships arriving before they do. Which is an altogether
different state of affairs.

>Nor would this be an easy task as it is in the modern world where you
>just send it out by telephone.  Without that you rely on some sort of
>untamperable transponder which is also something people disagree with.

They do? I thought most of us went with the CT version of transponders
and ignored the TNE travesty. It is (CT) canonical that it is possible to
get a special _extra_ transponder (some with more than one slot) that can
be programmed with fake identities. It is possible, though non-trivial,
to change these identities. What I refuse to believe is that just any
rambling would-be pirate could change the ship registry of all the
starports and navy ships it may encounter. I grant you that it's possible
to change your transponder code from FLAMING EYE to DRIVEN SNOW, but how
is that going to help you when there is no DRIVEN SNOW in the ship
registry?
 
>>Well, I assume that faking engine and hull numbers is a whole lot more
>>difficult than using fake transponder codes.
> 
>Why?  If they are ingraved they are easier to change and if they
>are electronic they aren't any different.

Nowadays they stamp engine numbers so deep into the engine that they only
way to remove them is to remove all the metal (which tend to be easily
spotted and detrimental to the performance of the engine to boot). Still,
I granted you that one too, didn't I?
 
>>A list of ship departures and arrivals for each system is trivially easily
>>to procure. They will contain a deal of errors, of course, but you can
>>easily eliminate most of the ships on those lists based on the fact that
>>they were demonstrably elsewhere. The remaining number of ships will have
>>to be checked individually.
> 
>Well, unless you assume that a pirate attacks a ship and then decides
>to try and trade at that world (the height of stupidity), then you
>have to try and cover all the worlds he might have visited (in
>2 or 3 jumps in case he doesn't try trading at the very next world).

He is supposed to heve been engaged in regular merchant operations until
he got his opportunity, remember? Multiple jumps between transactions is
not the reccomended way to make ends meet for a merchant.

>You are going to get a lot of ships like the general type.

But almost all of them will show up at their proper destination because
they are not trying to fake anything. Only the very few that has something
to hide will not, and those few are the ones you start checking up on.

>You are going to then comb those records ones that have been faked or
>where the pirate has failed to cover a crucial bit of info.

But the problem for the pirate is that he can at most fake one part of the
records, his own identity (and I don't believe it is all that easy even to
do that, but let that lie for the moment). It's kind of like double-entry
book-keeping. Just changing one entry won't do you any good. On the
contrary, it will stick out like a sore thump. You have umpteen ships
jumping from the various systems one week and umpteen minus one ships
arriving the next. Nothing anyone will care about normally, but easily
spotted when someone does begin to check.

>However, if you have to spend man-years on each ship that jumps to pick
>out the pirates, it is _not_ going to be cost effective. 

No, but as I've already pointed out twice now, you don't have to spend
man-years on each ship, because a simple comparison of starport records
will exonerate most of them.

>>If they are taxing the ships' activities, they will be happy to bother with
>>info for each and every one of them.
> 
>Only that each ship paid taxes.  They won't care who they are if they paid
>on so there will be no need for the kind of info to be forwarded. 

If the Imperium is using the same tax scheme the the Regency used later,
the amount each ship owes depends on how many passengers and how many
tons of cargo it carries. To have any chance of checking up one these
ships, records of what ships left with what passengers and cargoes
would be collected at each starport.

>>>Unless he does wilderness refueling.
>>
>>What are you talking about? This ship is engaged in regular merchant
>>activities. Even if they did include wilderness refuelling (I don't
>>want to revive that argument, so I'll assume it for purposes of
>>argument), he would still have to visit the starport afterwards to
>>do business.
> 
>He is going to go several worlds over before he does business.

Thereby sticking out like a sore thumb wherever he winds up because he
arrives without having done any business with the neighboring systems.
And his alter ego sticks out like a sore thumb back where he came from
because he left a starport and didn't show up in any neighboring
system. Gee, I wonder if that could be the pirate?

>No pirate is going to attack another ship and then blithly land at he
>same system.

At least we can agree with that. Bit of a problem for him if he is
carrying anything destined for that system, don't you think? And if
he isn't, what is he doing in that system in the first place?
 
>>I notice that you grasp at the extreme. Ship size is the absolutely
>>lowest limit of information you will have.
> 
>You presented this a minimum that was adequate to catch pirates.
>I was pointing out that it isn't even close to the task.

"Pointing out" isn't the same thing as refuting. Tell me, just how many
ships do you envisage flying around the Spinward Marches?
 
>How much more info will depend on how much more you have (which have
>disuputed before) and how much more you need (which we have disputed).

If you call saying "I don't agree" disputing. I don't think much of
that sort of argument myself.
 
>Thus, the question hangs on assumptions and questions
>that people don't agree on (which we knew :-).

Indeed we did. Whenever your opponents come up with some figures you say
"I don't agree" without providing any suggestions of your own. Not very
constructive IMO.
 
>[Things already covered snipped....]

Things like how much more information than just the ship tonnage you would
have if the pirate only takes the cargo, you mean?




      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"Facts are stubborn things, but not half so stubborn as fallacies."
                - Stella Maynard in "Anne of the Island"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 04:33:53 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Hello and a question

Richard Hough writes:
 
>>>Look in your Traveller book regarding TL of a planet.
>>>The maximum TL that can be LOCALLY PRODUCED.
>>
>>Unfortunately that can't be true in all cases, since the TU abounds in
>>planets with too small a population to sustain its TL. So IMTU the
>>planetary TL indicates the level that most of the population live at.
> 
>Good dodge, but I don't think it works either. Others have claimed M1100
>has a Vargr system at TL 16 with a total population of two (2) individuals.
>IIRC M0 has a few lo-pop TL 14 systems; one in Core sector with a class A
>starport! Where are these systems importing their high-tech commodities
>from?

Well, I am a firm believer in vetting randomly generated stats after the
fact, so I would have no compunction about changing UWPs that are too
weird. My standard way of dealing with such is to spend some time trying
my damndest to figure out a way to account for the stats and then, if I
can't come up with anything, make the smallest change that will make it
work for me. So my first impulse would be to eliminate those two Vargr
as being too implausible.
	However, one thing that has never been established is how many
people it takes at a minimum to run a society of a given TL. For TLs
below our own I expect it is possible to figure something out (Leonard,
do you have any ideas about this? How many people does it take at a
minimum to perform all the functions necessary to a TL 1, 2, 3, etc
society?) But for higher TLs it is trickier. Does one man with a Mobile
Fabrication Unit like the one in _Central Supply Catalogue_ constitute a
stable TL 10 society? How about two Vargr with a TL 16 Mobile Fabrication
Unit?
	As for the high-class starports I believe that there is some fairly
large minimum number of people needed to run one, but I'm not sure how many.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #619
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Wednesday, July 1 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 620



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Reginan nobility
Re: Re MegaCorps
re: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)
Re: Megacorporations
Re: Megacorporations
Imperial Dating System
Re: Re MegaCorps
Re: Appearance of Jump Space 
Re: Supernovae
Re: Armed merchants
CD ROM and sector generators
Question on TL
Re: MegaCorp Stuff
Re: When Worlds Collide
Re: When Worlds Collide
Re: When Worlds Collide

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 04:37:44 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Reginan nobility

I dug through my paper stacks and found the adventure I mentioned before
with the Reginan nobles. It is in _Challenge_ #50. Unfortunately it
contains a number of canon mistakes, so it is of limited usefulness (The
Patron is the nonexisting IRIS, the bad guy is the Count of Feri (Marc
hault-Oberlindes' baronial fief), and the reason for the interdiction of
Grant is some strange electromagnetic phenomenon, not that it is an
Imperial Navy testing system for planetary bombardment).

Anyway, the two nobles named in the adventure is Baron Urnst von Alksburg
from Efate and Count Everet de Saven of Feri.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "A  subsector  official  pompously states that the
        subsector  armed  forces  have  four Kinunir class
        ships in service,  each with enough troop strength
        to put down any military operations that threathen
        the peace of the Imperium."

                        ---Adventure 1, The Kinunir

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 14:35:03 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Re MegaCorps

At 12:41 PM 30/06/98 -0800, William F. Hostman wrote:
>Oberlindes lines extended at least as far as the far side of the domain of
>Vland; Margaret's Spouse was an Oberlindes Nobleman, whoo happened to bring
>with some corporate assets (MT RebSB).

IIRC Margaret's husband was Blaine Tukera of Tukera, not Oberlindes.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 14:38:09 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: re: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)

At 02:55 PM 30/06/98 -0700, Bruce Alan Macintosh wrote:

>For even more excitement, a gamma-ray-burst event (if the numbers for the
>Really Big Burst recently observed are right) might have a kill radius of 
>fifty to a hundred parsecs.

Now that is a neutron bomb worht talking about :)

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 05:08:04 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Megacorporations

Kurt Feltenberger writes:

>>Al Morai is a sector-wide company, operating in the Marches and into Deneb
>>and Trojan Reaches.
> 
>Al Morai is also a feeder line and owned by Tukera Lines.

No, Al Morai is an independent company owned by (some of) its employees.
In 1110 it was a sector-wide company covering much of the Spinward Marches.
In 1202 it had expanded into the rest of the Regency.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 23:48:07 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: Megacorporations

At 05:08 AM 7/1/98 +0200, you wrote:
>Kurt Feltenberger writes:
>
>>>Al Morai is a sector-wide company, operating in the Marches and into Deneb
>>>and Trojan Reaches.
>> 
>>Al Morai is also a feeder line and owned by Tukera Lines.
>
>No, Al Morai is an independent company owned by (some of) its employees.
>In 1110 it was a sector-wide company covering much of the Spinward Marches.
>In 1202 it had expanded into the rest of the Regency.

Duh!  I was thinking of Akerut.

Thanks!

Kurt Feltenberger
kurt@blazenet.net



http://www.igateway.com/clients/kurt/mp  Morrow Project Site

http://www.igateway.com/clients/kurt/pj PJ the Welsh Terrier Site

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 21:53:46 -0600
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Imperial Dating System

Does anyone know off-hand why the Terran equivalent (AD) date for the
founding of the Imperium and the Holiday Year (Year 0) changed from AD 4521
in CT, to AD 4518 in MT and TNE, back to 4521 in T4?  This causes the dates
of several other events (Terran-Vilani first contact, First Interstellar
War) to float by three years.

And if, for some reason, this topic *has* been done to death before, please
just point me privately to a FAQ list or URL that answers the question.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 23:26:12 -0500
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@fastlane.net>
Subject: Re: Re MegaCorps

At 09:06 PM 6/30/1998 -0400, Kurt Feltenberger wrote:

>
>Al Morai is also a feeder line and owned by Tukera Lines.
>
Al Morai is an independent sector wide corporation.  It was established in
120 on Mora (still home base).  A full description of Al Morai is available
on pp 30-31 of the Spinward Marches Campaign.

Akerut, on the other hand, is a wholly owned subsidiary of Tukera in the
Aramis subsector (the Akerut name is just a [can't remember term]
rearrangement of the Tukera name).  Tukera services only the major trade
routes, and establishes subsidiaries, of which Akerut is one, to provide
service along feeder routes.  Akerut has (as of 1105-1107) a fleet of fifty
5000 ton displacement "Hercules" class bulk carriers which are generally
occupied shuttling cargos to and from the Vargr border.  This information
is from p 135 of The Traveller Adventure.

Jimmy Simpson
	nimrodd@fastlane.net
"Cannot say.
 Saying, I would know.
 Do not know.
 So cannot say."
		-Zathras (Babylon 5)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 02:28:22 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Appearance of Jump Space 

> >I go with jump space being featureless as well..the true definition of
> >nothingness.  However, I still use the description of shifting,
> >swirling colors.
> 
> I tell my players; "Close your eyes.  That is what it looks
> like except without all the blackness."

I tell them it's the grey of a TV set on an empty channel.  Guess I was just too influenced by Neuromancer...

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 02:35:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: neo@total.net (Glenn Grant)
Subject: Re: Supernovae

 bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh) sez, 

>On the other hand, the supernova rate for the whole galaxy is one per 10-50
>years, or about one per million years per sector, so there should be 
>relatively few in the Imperium.
>
>(Although I'm considering setting a campaing in a Islands-like subsector that
>has been completely cut off from the Imperium by a supernova on the only
>jump route to Imperial space...) 

Coincidentally, I'm planning to set my non-canon Trav universe in a
M:0-like period, just at the tail-end of a Long Night *caused by a
supernova*.

IMTU, I'm using the 'jumpspace planes' concept, in which jumpspace can be
distorted by gravity in various ways. I've decided that a really big
disturbance, like, say, a supernova, would create vast, chaotic effects in
jumpspace, thus disrupting jump travel for, say, a 50 parsec radius. The
disruptions for *centuries*.

Boom: instant Long Night. Well, not quite instant; the effect spreads out
at the spead of light, just to make it that much scarier. Everything seems
normal until the supernova appears in the sky, a very real harbringer of
doom, and suddenly nobody can jump outsystem any more. Their drives just
don't work, or worse, they *automatically misjump*. And just as suddenly,
arrivals stop appearing in-system. 

Makes the Black Curtain and the Empress Wave look positively comforting. 

100 parsecs across would be a big area in the canonical TU, though not
*too* vast. But my game universe is 3D (though mapped in flat planes,
stacked up). A 100pc sphere is a pretty huge volume of space. Somewhere
inside of which, of course, is most of the Terran Expansion...

>For even more excitement, a gamma-ray-burst event (if the numbers for the
>Really Big Burst recently observed are right) might have a kill radius of 
>fifty to a hundred parsecs.

GRB's are known to have wiped out several ancient high civilizations IMTU.

I'm slowly developing a rather lurid billion-year galactic history. Entire
advanced civilizations come and go constantly, like bubbles in a glass of
beer.

Best,

+ GMG +

    -----------------------Glenn Grant-----------------------  
                         <neo@total.net>
    Web: <http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/ggrant.html>
           "The future is simply amnesia in reverse."
                    -- Christopher Dewdney

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 00:07:25 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Armed merchants

[I am dropping out of this.  I is starting to go in the same circles
as all the others.  I know you feel that you have a convincing
case that piracy wouldn't exist, but I just don't see it.  I
really think it all depends on it fitting, or not, a set of
assumption and a point of view rather than an objective
demonstration of "reasonableness"]

Wed, 1 Jul 1998 04:13:50 +0200 (METDST), Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
>>All this will show _a_ ship visted. If you just don't carry passengers
>>(and even if you do, but it is a lot harder) then you just have records
>>that can be faked and witnesses of people who they didn't pay much
>>attention to at the time (try asking someone at an airport counter to
>>remember one person they served weeks ago out of all the people the served
>>during that period without a photograph).

>Ah, but we are not talking about people that pass through an airport by
>the hundreds every day, we are talking about starships that are visiting
>Class E starports which only gets a few visitors per month.

Only if he is stupid enough to visit the port at a system he has
just committed piracy at.  Otherwise you have to search all the
system within appropriate distance.

>>And even if you have a big brother kind of situation with cameras on
>>everyone (and not everyone sees the Traveller universe this way, as we
>>have established)

>Well, I'm assuming for purposes of this argument that the authorities are
>not even taking a few cheap, basic precautions, because its been years
>and years since the last pirate attack, and you claim that in such a
>case preventive measures will inevitably deteriorate. I don't agree with
>you about that, but I'm trying to meet you halfway, so what the hell,
>none of the so-called 'Big Brother' stuff.

Well, is isn't just that.  The list has had flame wars on what is
reasonable (a also refer back to my post on the question of why,
if relative cost is what matters, every home doesn't have a security
system, or why every subway train doesn't have a security camera)
and we also disagree on how effective they are.

>That's assuming that this
>merchant is running the risk of faking his identity long before he even
>knows that he is going to luck into an opportunity to capture someone.
>Which is a pretty silly assumption IMO.

Well, if he is also engaging in smuggling other activities, the
already has reason to.  (A merchant who engages in both legal and
illegal activities isn't going to be restricted to smuggling).

>>how do you track him down in a huge Empire where communications may not
>>even move as fast as he does?

>If he has gone back to normal merchant activity he is not outrunning the
>Xboat network

Yeah, and the Xboats only go along the back bone.  The news then
has to be transmitted of the backbone and to many worlds it has to
linger, waiting for the next courier.  My PCs have shown that
it is quite possible to, if you try, keep ahead of news.

>In fact, I do believe I stated that just a few exchanges ago.
>But that isn't what we're discussing, now is it? We're discussing
>someone "running with the fishes", doing legitimate business in between
>the occasional opportune capture.

No, I'm just talking of getting out the general region, then the
authorities have a huge number of worlds and ships to search among.

>>And then you get into the question of how they tie this into a piratcy
>>that occured, esp. since most pirates will just skip trading on the world
>>they did the piracy on.

>That really goes without saying (though it leaves unexplained why he was
>in the system to begin with if he didn't have any business in it),

He may be speculating on business being there, or he may abort
business he had, etc.

>>>it will have to use its real transponder code.
>>
>>Well, as you know, some don't agree with you on this.

>Yes I know, but I still don't know (because you still haven't told me) how
>you imagine that a ship can engage in legitimate merchant operations without
>the people it does business with getting a pretty good idea about it. And
>that's assuming it never carries freight. Or perhaps you think that there
>are plenty of people willing to turn over a cargo to someone of whose
>identity they don't have a pretty good idea?

They do have a "pretty good" idea.  A criminal works by beig the rare
exception to an otherwise reliable system.  If they are to numerous
the system will break down.  The system of records is going
to be good enough to keep crime down to a reasonable level so that
merchants only have a low level of loss.  There
is going to be something a chance 1/1,000 or 1/10,000 of a cargo
getting lost to pirates, stolen by dishonest merchants, etc.
(Similarly is the canon crime of skipping out on payments).
All this hangs together and matches how crimes historically
work.

>>As you remember, many of us don't see communications in the Traveller
>>universe as being fast enough to allow unique codes for each ship to be
>>transmited to every location before the ship can get there.

>So? Neither do I. But I do believe that it is fast enough to have codes
>for 99% of all ships arriving before they do. Which is an altogether
>different state of affairs.

Well, I don't agree.

>>Nor would this be an easy task as it is in the modern world where you
>>just send it out by telephone.  Without that you rely on some sort of
>>untamperable transponder which is also something people disagree with.

>They do? I thought most of us went with the CT version of transponders
>and ignored the TNE travesty. It is (CT) canonical that it is possible to
>get a special _extra_ transponder (some with more than one slot) that can
>be programmed with fake identities. It is possible, though non-trivial,
>to change these identities. What I refuse to believe is that just any
>rambling would-be pirate could change the ship registry of all the
>starports and navy ships it may encounter.

To catch a pirate this way the Imperium is going to need records
of every port that every ship ever visits throughout the Imperium
and they are going to have to be current.  (otherwise you are
a ship that just came in from out of the sector).  Then they are
going to have to check that with the transponder of every ship
that arrives in port.  This goes beyond "non trivial".  And
even then, you don't catch a pirate that just does wilderness
refueling, skips over a system, and leaves no record he was
ever in the system in question.

>   I grant you that it's possible
>to change your transponder code from FLAMING EYE to DRIVEN SNOW, but how
>is that going to help you when there is no DRIVEN SNOW in the ship
>registry?

Again, that assume that every planet has a current registry of
every ship in service.  I don't believe this is possible.

>>Why?  If they are ingraved they are easier to change and if they
>>are electronic they aren't any different.
>
>Nowadays they stamp engine numbers so deep into the engine that they only
>way to remove them is to remove all the metal (which tend to be easily
>spotted and detrimental to the performance of the engine to boot).

And, as metal working moves up to Traveller TL 12 or even 15 removing
such thing that are mearly stamped into metal become trivial.

>>Well, unless you assume that a pirate attacks a ship and then decides
>>to try and trade at that world (the height of stupidity), then you
>>have to try and cover all the worlds he might have visited (in
>>2 or 3 jumps in case he doesn't try trading at the very next world).
>
>He is supposed to heve been engaged in regular merchant operations until
>he got his opportunity, remember? Multiple jumps between transactions is
>not the reccomended way to make ends meet for a merchant.

Well, the free cargo helps a lot in changing that.  Especially
if he was taking a rick in finding a cargo at the world.  If
he was smuggling he might not even have to give that up.  This
assumes he takes just the cargo (which I favor).  If you pushed
this you _might_ get me to think that they take the whole ship.
In which case I would drop the levels of piracy the Imperium
would tolerate by an order of magnitude or so.

>>You are going to get a lot of ships like the general type.

>But almost all of them will show up at their proper destination because
>they are not trying to fake anything.

How do you know that a ship hasn't shown up at there destination?
You can't telephone to find out.  You could try an institute
the kind of meticulous system of ship tracking many of us
just don't see as "Traveller" where every time a ship arrives
a message is sent back to the originating system that they
left from.  But you are going to know that the ship didn't
show up at it's destination until weeks later, and then
you have to take at least a week to send an alert to
the neighboring system that will have to wait for transport
to all those system.

>>You are going to then comb those records ones that have been faked or
>>where the pirate has failed to cover a crucial bit of info.

>>>If they are taxing the ships' activities, they will be happy to bother with
>>>info for each and every one of them.
>>
>>Only that each ship paid taxes.  They won't care who they are if they paid
>>on so there will be no need for the kind of info to be forwarded.

>If the Imperium is using the same tax scheme the the Regency used later,
>the amount each ship owes depends on how many passengers and how many
>tons of cargo it carries.

"If"

> To have any chance of checking up one these
>ships, records of what ships left with what passengers and cargoes
>would be collected at each starport.

No,they need records that "a" ship arrived and paid taxes.

>>He is going to go several worlds over before he does business.

>Thereby sticking out like a sore thumb wherever he winds up because he
>arrives without having done any business with the neighboring systems.

And how do they know this.  They can telephone neighboring
systems to see if he has.

>>>I notice that you grasp at the extreme. Ship size is the absolutely
>>>lowest limit of information you will have.

>>You presented this a minimum that was adequate to catch pirates.
>>I was pointing out that it isn't even close to the task.

>"Pointing out" isn't the same thing as refuting.

I agree.  However, you were accusing me of "grasping at extremes"
I was pointing out how my response was, in fact, suitable based
on what you had posted.

>>How much more info will depend on how much more you have (which have
>>disuputed before) and how much more you need (which we have disputed).

>If you call saying "I don't agree" disputing. I don't think much of
>that sort of argument myself.

When they were disputed before, there was more than "I disagree".
Hans, we both know that most of these subpoints have been beaten
to death.  I could give point that were given before and you
could respond with responses that were given before and we
could reargue ever subthread.  But I'm just not intersted.

>>[Things already covered snipped....]
>
>Things like how much more information than just the ship tonnage you would
>have if the pirate only takes the cargo, you mean?

Hans, I scanned down the message and saw that everthing else
I felt had been covered.  If I didn't repond to specific sentence
it was because it was covered or irrelevant in the broader scheme
of things.  After all, you youself don't hit every single point
(like when you started in on how it taking only man-hours to
check records support your case when I had already said that
I felt the time necessary was an unimportant side issue.)
Don't play these games, it make debating with you highly unpleasant.

That is what I really don't like about this list.  Everyone
is alway looking to attack the other person rather than simply
find out where this disagree.  That and the fact that nobody
can seem to accept the legitamacy of views they don't agree
with.  It could be so much more pleasant.  Sometimes I
wonder why I bother and just don't stick with lists that
are more fun.


____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 04:04:53 EDT
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: CD ROM and sector generators

	Yes, there are sector, world and star generators on the CD, mapping software,
sector viewers, character generators and more character generators, sector
printers.
	Some of them even include the source code. And some are shareware (though
whether it's possible to register some of the software might be debatable).
	There are also alien language generators, ship design aids.
	And more things being added weekly (actually daily).


Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 12:39:34 +0200 
From: Christian Gotschi <ChristianG@vircom.co.za>
Subject: Question on TL

Ok so the general impression that I get is that well the TL don't
actually mean the WHOLE planet, just most (or travelers).

But then:
	Why have TL9 weapons (if you could with a bit of difficulty get
TL12 or even TL16)
	(other that reasons that other governments don't want your
government to get some and the fact that your government may want to buy
things locally to keep the economy up)

e.g. if you are a megacorp. I would think that ALL your ships/equipment
would be the highest TL you could get. if you are spending MCr. on a
ship, you can spend a bit more to go to the high TL place and get your
ship.

So the only reason that one would buy a lower techlevel of expensive
stuff would be if you work for the government.

Also then if planets have equipment of different TL why have a penalty
for using different TL items? ( I can't remember at the moment if this
is true or not, I haven't played for a while.)
Since you will have seen/used different TL equipment (esp. higher
techlevel stuff)

Question 2 :
	(This is to those slugging at each other about piracy)
What records are kept at each type of starport (assuming that the TL of
each is the same, since this does not depend on the TL of the world)

How does the Imperium collect the tax, and keep records of taxation?

Also the Imperium needs to keep records about the various nations, what
are these?, are they per system/planet/nation? and how detailed?
What taxes does the Imperium charge the member nations/planets
What about megacorps that try to get away from taxes with hidden bases,
how does the Imperium react if it finds them?
	(no no no I don't care if this is possible or if the paper trail
is too big, I want them so they stay!)


i.e. What I want to know is how does the Imperium does its paperwork,
and make its money

(Ian or Katts [ianw@orac.net.au], in your brilliant post (Small scale
colonization in Traveller v1.0 ) you did not have anything about the
Imperium, e.g. what does the Imperium say about new colonies?,
taxes/paperwork)

Would anybody be interested in the world description that I made in my
old campaign?

Christian Götschi
mailto:christiang@vircom.co.za
Developer at Vircom
http://www.vircom.co.za

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 05:01:21 PDT
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: MegaCorp Stuff

In response to the question about the MegaCorps...


"The thirteen megacorporations within the Imperium are: Name - Major 
Interests 
   Delgado Trading, LIC - Military hardware, mining, publishing 
   General Products, LIC - Heavy industry, starships 
   GSbAG - Starships 
   Hortalez et Cie, LIC - Banking and investment 
   Instellarms, LIC - Military equipment 
   Ling-Standard Products - Starship systems, mining 
   Makhidkarun - Communications, entertainment, food, robots 
   Naasirka - Computers, software, electronics, robots 
   SuSAG, LIC - Chemicals, pharaceuticals, geneering 
   Sharurshid - Trade and speculation in luxury goods 
   Sternmetal Horizons, LIC - Mining, heavy manufacturing, food 
synthesis 
   Tukera Lines, LIC - Passenger and freight shipping, trade 
   Zirunkariish - Banking and investment, insurance 

(SUPP-8, 1107; MT-PLAYERS, 1120; MT-REFCOMP, 1120)"

And I believe that the Al Morai lines are independent.  I believe that 
the writer meant that Akerut Lines was the wholly owned subsidiary of 
Tukera Lines, LIC...


Greg Smith
The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 23:58:44 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: When Worlds Collide

In mail you write:

> Howdy!
>
> Walt Smith wrote:
>> Peter Newman wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> Adventure Hook - Grandfather was curious about the Magallenic Clouds &
>> sent a robotic ship there.  It jumped as far as it could & then switched
>> to sublight & achieved a very high fraction of c.  It explored a bit &
>> just came back the same way.  It is a bit confused as to where it's boss
>> went to & starts causing trouble.
>> 
>> Even Sillier Adventure Hook - the ship was not robotic but was crewed &
>> the PC's are part of its Droyne/Human/Vargr/Sentient Robot crew.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> And here, ladies and gentlemen, we have the origin of the planet first
>> mentioned in this thread - the whole planet is an artificial exploration
>> ship, the population is the remnants of the crew, and there were
>> Final War saboteurs on board who made trouble (enough that "civilization"
>> on board the ship fell, but not enough to destroy it). Now it's come home,
>> and has stuck itself into a habitable zone of a star while the sentient
>> computer at it's core tries to figure out where Grandfather went.
>> 
> Gee... does the ship^H^H^H^Hplanet have vestiges of a hexagonal grid on
> its surface? :)

If it does, my first response would be to set full thrust *away* from
the planet, and jump as soon as it is safe!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 00:04:26 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: When Worlds Collide

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> BTW, this means that if there's ever a supernova in or near the
>> Imperium, folks will have about an hour's warning before the light gets
>> there. The neutrino flux ought to *destroy* neutrino detectors for a
>> hundred or so parsecs. :-)
>
> So you are saying that a supernova would almost wipe out more than a sector?

As I recall, you ought to be safe at about 20-50 parsecs. Inside that,
it'll screw up planetary magnetic fields, cause massive radiation
problems, and other nasties.

But I was saying that neutrino detectors are designed for a much
*lower* neutrino flux. It'd be sort of like taking a night vision scope
to Mercury and pointing it at the sun. Fry!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 00:07:50 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: When Worlds Collide

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> Now consider that the total detector cross section was on the order of
>> 100 square meters. So that gives a flux of 1e17 *interacting* neutrinos
>> per square meter. The number of non-interacting ones doesn't bear
>> thinking about.
>
> This all just went WAY over my head!  Do you think you could say that again,
> but dumb it down so that I can understand it with my less that educated mind.

Ok, the detectors on earth totaled maybe 100 square meters of area for
the neutrinos to have passed through. They got 4-6 neutrinos detected
from the supernova. Call it 5 neutrinos. That's 5/100 or 1/20th of a
neutrino per square meter "detectable flux".

If one neutrino in a zillion <grin> is detectable, that means the total
flux was 1/20th of a zillion per square meter. Ok?

Now, that was at 100,000 parsecs. At 200,000 AU per parsec that's
20,000,000,000 AU.

Flux follows the inverse square law. That is, if the flux a distance A
is B, then the flux at 2A is B/2^2. 

So that tells us that the flux at 10 AU would be 10/20,000,000,000
*squared* time the flux at earth.

Anyway, you go thru all this, and it works out that 1e17
(100,000,000,000,000,000) neutrinos would be detected by a square meter
of detector at 10 AU. And using our "one in a zillion detected" rule,
that means that you'd have 1e17 *times* a zillion neutrinos passing
thru. Only the 1e17 would actually *affect* anything. Such as anybody
in the vicinity.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #620
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Traveller-digest       Wednesday, July 1 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 621



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Martian Metal Minis for sale
Re: When Worlds Collide
Re: When Worlds Collide
Re: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)
Martian Metals Miniatures
Subject: Re: Armed merchants
Re: Martian Metal Minis for sale
Re: questions on TL
Re: Small scale colonisation in Traveller
Re: Small scale colonisation in Traveller
Re: Martian Metals Miniatures
Re: Supernovae (was Re: When Worlds Collide)
Re: Hello and a question
Re: Hello and a question
Non-Imperial Megacorps
re: Questions on TML
Re: Martian Metals Miniatures
Re: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)
Re: Martian Metals Miniatures
Re: CD ROM and sector generators 
Re: Appearance of Jump Space 
Re: Imperial Dating System

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 09:06:46 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Martian Metal Minis for sale

>At 03:40 pm 6/30/98 -0400, you wrote:
>>I am posting this on behalf of a friend (please contact him directly
>at
>>rthomas@magicnet.net)
>>
>>
>>          Old Traveller Miniatures for Sale
>>
>>Hello fellow gamers. I have a number of old Traveller minis that have been
>>gathering dust  for a long time, that I have finally decided  I can part
>>with. Almost all of them are the old "Martian Metals" 15mm Traveller line.
>>Now itís my understanding that most of these molds were destroyed in a fire
>
>
>	Hmm ... molds destroyed==can't reproduce.
>	Hmm ... certain TML members, at times, have indicated they cast
>their own figures.
>	Hmm ... people want miniatures.
>
>	HMM ... what are the chances of these miniatures finding their way
>to the above-referenced members, along with a request to MM* for
>permission to reproduce and sell?
>
>(*MM=Martian Metals in this context, not Marc Miller)


Hmmm...  I was thinking of offering $100 for the lot, and thinking it would
not be enough.  I would be willing to contribute to Dave's idea in exchange
for a set.  Anyone else wanna put their money where their fingers type?

Pete


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 14:24:16 +0100
From: "Buston, John" <john.buston@eds.com>
Subject: Re: When Worlds Collide

> Lethal; neutrino flux? I thought those things were so non-interactive
> that they were totally harmless?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
A supernova generates so *many* of them that the small percentage that
*do* interact will give a lethal radiation dose at 10 AU.

To help you get an idea of just how *many* are generated, when that
Supernova in the Lesser Magellanic Cloud was observed in 1989(?),
neutrino detectors on Earth received 4-6 neutrinos from the core
collapse. That's at something like 100,000 parsecs. Back calculate
using the inverse square law and the flux is something *insane*. 

Let's see. A parsec is about 2e5 AU. So that makes our distance about
2e10 AU. divide by 10 AU. Gives 2e9. square that to get 2e18. times 5
(median) gives 1e19 neutrinos.

Now consider that the total detector cross section was on the order of
100 square meters. So that gives a flux of 1e17 *interacting* neutrinos
per square meter. The number of non-interacting ones doesn't bear
thinking about. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Does cross section matter? I thought it was just volume and perhaps
density.

How many per cubic meter? One person = one twelfth a cubic meter?

My sums for 100 parsecs from a SuperNova give 5 Million per square
meter. That sounds unhealthy.

Any idea of safe distance and intensity/lethal dose?

Add to this the recent astronomical speculations(?) about the eventual
collapse of two closely orbiting neutron stars to form a black hole,
with massive meson emission, maybe really could sterilise a whole
galaxy? 

Unblockable Mesons as well as unblockable Neutrinos, ain't we lucky?

If the asteroid doesn't trash you, and the supernova doesn't ash you,
the collapsing black holes probably will :)

So perhaps the sensible thing for an old high TL culture really is to
head off into intergalactic space?  Either that or live inside a white
globe. And of course thats why SETI hasn't found anyone yet :)
John

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 14:25:38 +0100
From: "Buston, John" <john.buston@eds.com>
Subject: Re: When Worlds Collide

Peter Newman wrote:

>Even Sillier Adventure Hook - the ship was not robotic but was crewed &
>the PC's are part of its Droyne/Human/Vargr/Sentient Robot crew.

What, you mean exactly like the generation ship in the Metamorphis Alpha
(to Omega) RPG?

I was wondering how to fit that ship into Traveller. So rather than the
silly mutation background, it becomes gramps forgotten geneering sealed
colony experiment :)  I think I could make it fit. Methinks I will take
another look at this when I get back home.

It also dwarfs every other ship in the Imperium. 

Its appearance in Imp space would give the Emperor the perfect excuse to
order a lab ship or two :)

John

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 09:57:49 -0400
From: Matthew Harelick <matth@CYBERNEX.NET>
Subject: Re: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)

Ah, but would you settle it at all?

Consider that the Imperium is much more advanced that current Earth technology.
If we extrapolate some current technology to Traveller (as is done with other
things) , isn't possible to say that we can predict a SuperNova sort of how we
predict earthquakes or other weather patterns on Earth?

Now if the Imperium can do this they can give a Star and a system , and the
surrounding areas some kind of rating based on the predicted lifetime of the
star. Considering that the Imperium (at the time of the Rebellion) is at least
a thousand years old, a star can be predicted to
    1) Overdue for a SuperNova or other major event.
    2) Completely Stable
    3) Major Stellar event expected within a thousand years.

With this prediction ability we can make some other extrapolations.

If a Stellar system and it surrounds are overdue, they could be rated Amber or
Red. Further Insurance rates on businesses , homes, etc in this area
can be so high that it is no longer worthwhile to live here.

On the other hand, perhaps this area is on the fringe of a strategic or
profittable area and people residing here get hazard pay for staying within
an area that may be decimated by a Stellar event at any time.


Anthony Jackson wrote:

> Bruce Johnson writes:
> > Warning system yes, effective evacuations procedures?? That's another
> > question altogether...what do you do, fr'instance, if a star 3 parsecs
> > away from say...Vland goes supernova? How do you evacuate and resettle a
> > Pop 9 system?
>
> Bah, have real fun.  Consider Deneb (Deneb/Deneb 0305 B445A21-C).  Orbits a
> class Ia red supergiant (unstable?  Nahhhh.  Great place to settle tens of
> billions of people).

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 09:37:20 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Martian Metals Miniatures

The idea of using the originals as templates for a new run sounds interesting.
What would be a sensible contribution from someone who wants to get himself a
replica set out of this, I wonder.

If these have been in use (I noticed some were painted), they might be
a bit worn for use as the basis for a new set of molds.

Walt Smith
System Manager
Hartwick College
Oneonta, NY
smithw@hartwick.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 10:00:51 -0400
From: "Bob Sanders" <bsanders@amghome.com>
Subject: Subject: Re: Armed merchants

I thought that I may bring up a point about records, shipping, and the
ability to escape detection...

During my stay with the US Navy I spent some time in Norfolk, the largest US
military port, and also the largest warehouse for the military.  While I was
there the base was rocked to discover that several people had been stealing
supplies from the base for _years_!!! Not just little things like boots,
pens, etc... I am talking about big stuff like the TF-30 jet engines for the
F-14 Tomcat.  Some had found their way to Iran to keep their old 14's in the
air!

Now it would seem to me that if stuff can be removed from a high security
place like Norfolk, then it would be easy to move between the channels of
something the size of the Imperium.

Just my 2cr.

Bob

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 10:31:29 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Martian Metal Minis for sale

That is a great idea; even if it means that several people on the list have to
kick in to pay for the minis.

Seth

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 00:20:42
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: questions on TL

>From: Christian Gotschi <ChristianG@vircom.co.za>
>Subject: Question on TL
>
>But then:
>	Why have TL9 weapons (if you could with a bit of difficulty get
>TL12 or even TL16)
>	(other that reasons that other governments don't want your
>government to get some and the fact that your government may want to buy
>things locally to keep the economy up)
>
>e.g. if you are a megacorp. I would think that ALL your ships/equipment
>would be the highest TL you could get. if you are spending MCr. on a
>ship, you can spend a bit more to go to the high TL place and get your
>ship.
>

You are a shipyard on a TL11 planet. You build reasonably efficient TL11
2000t jump-2 freighters - biggish fusion plant, thruster plates, jump-2,
pretty poor sensors. Your TL11 warships, on the other hand, suck.

You know of a nearby TL15 planet. It builds slightly better TL15 freighters
- - their power plants are about half the size, but everything else is pretty
similar. Their TL15 warships are hell on wheels.

You therefore approach the TL15 world with an offer to build all their
slow, clunky freighters, in exchange for a much smaller value of TL15
warships. It's a good deal for you, because you get more firepower at less
cost than building TL11 warships as well would have got you. It's a good
deal for them, because they get more freighters for less cost.

>So the only reason that one would buy a lower techlevel of expensive
>stuff would be if you work for the government.

A very old Traveller product (Striker) suggested that equipment of higher
TL than produced locally needs double the amount of maintainence and costs
20% of sticker cost each year in hard currency for spare parts. This makes
a lot of sense to me.

>
>Also then if planets have equipment of different TL why have a penalty
>for using different TL items? ( I can't remember at the moment if this
>is true or not, I haven't played for a while.)

Because an engineer who is used to using very high tech equipment is
probably going to have problems with engines designed to be thumped with a
spanner to get them working again ... things that have *shudder* no
electronics.

>Since you will have seen/used different TL equipment (esp. higher
>techlevel stuff)

You wont neccessarily have worked with it day in day out though.

>
>Question 2 :
>	(This is to those slugging at each other about piracy)
>What records are kept at each type of starport (assuming that the TL of
>each is the same, since this does not depend on the TL of the world)

Records are going to be kept by the starport authorities, by the ship
itself, by the freight, passenger and cargo brokers and possibly by the
Imperial authorities as well.

They are going to range from grossly inadequate to exceedingly detailed -
if I am going to send a megacredit worth of computer parts somewhere, I am
going to be damn sure I can answer the question 'where is the cargo now'.

The fact that holding such records makes piracy insanely difficult is
merely a nice side benefit. It is going to happen because people need to
know what is happening with their business and when. It also helps stop
merchants just disappearing with the goods ... after all, with no records,
what stops you claiming the freight you are carrying is actually your own
speculative cargo ?

>
>How does the Imperium collect the tax, and keep records of taxation?

The Imperium may tax commerce going thru starports, it may invoice worlds
directly, it may own chunks of all Imperial corporations (including by
definitition all megacorps) or it may do a combination of the above.

>
>Also the Imperium needs to keep records about the various nations, what
>are these?, are they per system/planet/nation? and how detailed?

Yes. This is a major function of the Internal Mapping Branch of the IISS.

>What taxes does the Imperium charge the member nations/planets
>What about megacorps that try to get away from taxes with hidden bases,
>how does the Imperium react if it finds them?
>	(no no no I don't care if this is possible or if the paper trail
>is too big, I want them so they stay!)

"You know that battlecruiser contract we are letting ? Well, you are off
the shortlist"

"Given His Magesty's displeasure at your actions in Deneb, I believe that
as a shareholder he intends to have a no-confidence motion moved against
you in the next AGM"

"The Imperial Marines have occupied the subsector headquarters of your
company throughout Deneb Sector. Co-operation with the Ministry of Justice
audit should obviate the need to indict your entire Sector Management Team".

"This is an Imperial Warrant. Thank you for your kind donation of forty
gigacredits to the Imperial Treasury".

>
>
>i.e. What I want to know is how does the Imperium does its paperwork,
>and make its money

Part of this depends on whether you regard the Imperium as a feudal system,
or a bureaucracy, most of whom are also nobles.

The available evidence can be read either way.

>
>(Ian or Katts [ianw@orac.net.au], in your brilliant post (Small scale
>colonization in Traveller v1.0 ) you did not have anything about the
>Imperium, e.g. what does the Imperium say about new colonies?,
>taxes/paperwork)
>

I was thinking about it, but it was way too late and I just wanted the damn
thing finished. Fan mail to my email box might get me to expound on the
various Imperial bureaucracies and what they do to help and, sometimes,
hinder new colonies (eg Navy wants a working colony somewhere so it can put
a base there later. Cant intervene directly because thats the job of the
Bureau of Colonisation. Therefore send a light cruiser there and arrange
for it's captain to lose a large amount of money playing cards with the
local leader, thus alleviating the colony's initial cash flow crisis. Later
announce that planet is where the next IN Surplus auction is to be held is
another good one ... a local firm is hired to run the actual auction of
course, at brokerage of 0.025% of value transacted).

I also wanted to keep it generic, for people who dont play in the Imperium.

>Would anybody be interested in the world description that I made in my
>old campaign?

Yes

>
>Christian Götschi
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 00:34:23
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Small scale colonisation in Traveller

>From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
>Subject: Re: Small scale colonisation in Traveller v1.0 (long)
>
>I'd like to second that! If this is what happens when I rant and rave,
>I'll do it more often!

*grin* Dont flatter yourself Bruce. It's something I'd been writing for a
while - I just needed a solid couple of hours to finish it off. My other
ongoing projects are the Grand Unified Traveller Trade Theory (currently
working on whether I can make prices as a curve rather than a set of points
work) and High Guard for FFS 2 (something like QSDS but more so ... can
people please send me some FFS2-legal spinal mounts of various sizes,
preferably ones that correspond to the old A-S guns of High Guard).

Ian Whitchurch

PS I love the fan mail on it, but does anyone have any suggestions on
things in it that dont quite work ?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 00:28:34
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Small scale colonisation in Traveller

>From: "johannes" <johannes@ix.netcom.com>
>Subject: Re: Small scale colonisation in Traveller v1.0 (long)
>
>EXCELLENT!  This one post just made my subscribing to this list worthwhile.
>I've been looking for something different from Raiders 'n Traders or
>Corporate Brute Squad.  You just defined my next campaign, and I thank you.
>
>John

Part of why I thought the rules were needed is that it lets you establish a
framework for a Raiders and Traders or a Corporate Brute Squad game.

If the players are playing 'The Man Who Would be King' and do knock over
some low-tech world, make em run it. Make em deal with actually running it,
rather than throwing an Imperial Marine Landing Force at them.

If players are traders, give them a world with specific needs 'We dont have
any money, but we can give you a hold full of x, which you could sell on Y.
We really need a new fission plant we can maintain locally, which you could
get on A'.

Corporate Brute Squad ... 'We were shepherding this Finance team who were
trying to lend forty small ones to this dirtball world'.

It can also be done to show a number of worlds developing over time - the
GM can sit down beforehand and plot out (probably with a spreadsheet) how a
subsector will develop. A colony of 2000 people is going to be
substantially affected by the annual visit of a single Far Trader.

Ian Whitchurch 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 10:46:15 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Martian Metals Miniatures

Even worn; these figures would still make decent originals. Let's all agree
with a donation price (in return for one set of figures), who will hold the
money and mail the check to the seller, who will get the originals, who will
cast them, and who will mail the copies out to the contributors. This is A LOT
of work. Also, most important; is this LEGAL?

Seth

PS; I will contribute for a set of figures

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 09:54:37 -0500
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Supernovae (was Re: When Worlds Collide)

Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@fastlane.net> wrote:

> Akerut, on the other hand, is a wholly owned subsidiary of Tukera in the
> Aramis subsector (the Akerut name is just a [can't remember term]
> rearrangement of the Tukera name).

Anagram.  Also seen in the company name I've been using for THUDDD entries, 
"Ketaru Aerospace".  :)  Speaking of Tukera:

Bruce Johnson wrote:

> Warning system yes, effective evacuations procedures?? That's another
> question altogether...what do you do, fr'instance, if a star 3 parsecs
> away from say...Vland goes supernova? How do you evacuate and resettle a
> Pop 9 system?

Well, let's see.  As an example, I'll take the "Trimkhana-Brilliance" drop
liner design I posted a while back (800/1120 dtons; J4; 200 passengers and
48 tons cargo).  Given a hundred thousand of those (80 million d-tons of
shipping at TCr 32.4) running at normal capacity and a one-week turn over
at both sides of the jump, you can move a billion people and 240 million
tons of freight (240 kg per passenger) in four years.  Fifty thousand can
do it in eight years for TCr 16.2.  Note that this *is* a high-capacity
passenger liner that I'm using to get a handle on the numbers.  Oh, and
add something like another TCr 5+ to cover reimbursement of the shipping
operators for the passengers.  The planet being evacuated should be able
to contribute substantially to this, though.

In practice, I'm not sure there's this much passenger shipping available
even at the domain level, so you'd have to convert freighters and build
more ships.  A handful of population-A worlds with class-A starports
might be able to collectively build this many ships in the time allowed.
Of course, there aren't many worlds like that in any sector.

In Vland's case, the Tukera Lines corporate HQ is one parsec away, at
Tauri....

  -- Steve Bonneville

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 16:41:19 +0200
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Hello and a question

>>Look in your Traveller book regarding TL of a planet.
>>The maximum TL that can be LOCALLY PRODUCED.

>Unfortunately that can't be true in all cases, since the TU abounds in
>planets with too small a population to sustain its TL.
<snip>

It can be true. "The maximum TL that can be LOCALLY PRODUCED" doesn't say
that everything they produce is of the TL, just that anything they produce
is of that TL. A TL 10 planet with a population of say 10 humans might only
produce TL 10 belts and import everything else. The TL digit tells the ref
that IF something is locally produced then it CANNOT be of a TL above that.

I agree however that most ref (me included) tend to take the TL digit as a
description of what the general TL of the planet is be it locally produced
stuff or imported.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 17:23:36 +0200
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Hello and a question

>It can be true. "The maximum TL that can be LOCALLY PRODUCED" doesn't say
>that everything they produce is of the TL, just that anything they produce
>is of that TL. A TL 10 planet with a population of say 10 humans might only
>produce TL 10 belts and import everything else. The TL digit tells the ref
>that IF something is locally produced then it CANNOT be of a TL above that.

Oops that should read: It can be true. "The maximum TL that can be LOCALLY
PRODUCED" doesn't say that everything they USE is of the TL, just that
anything they PRODUCE is of that TL or less.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 16:31:27 +0100
From: colin black <colin.black@virgin.net>
Subject: Non-Imperial Megacorps

Isn't the Mendares Corporation of the Julian Protectorate
counted as one of the 13 non-imperial megacorps?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 11:25:33 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Questions on TML

Ian Whitchurch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"You know that battlecruiser contract we are letting ? Well, you are off
the shortlist"

"Given His Magesty's displeasure at your actions in Deneb, I believe that
as a shareholder he intends to have a no-confidence motion moved against
you in the next AGM"

"The Imperial Marines have occupied the subsector headquarters of your
company throughout Deneb Sector. Co-operation with the Ministry of Justice
audit should obviate the need to indict your entire Sector Management Team".

"This is an Imperial Warrant. Thank you for your kind donation of forty
gigacredits to the Imperial Treasury".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

The above will depend on how you see the political dynamics of the 
Empire. How much power do Imperium-spanning, Dreadnaught-building,
Planet-owning Megacorps have at the Imperial Court? If they have too
little to suit themselves, you might very well see them help install a
very different Imperial Court.

Assuming a Megacorp used some tact and at least maintained the facade
of obeying Imperial Law (such as GSbAG running Psi-Drug factories, but
being nice enough to run them outside the boundries of the Imperium),
the Emperor might be leery of moving against them for "minor
misunderstandings". I don't have a good feel for the economic might
represented by these Megacorps, but it might rival that of many
Sectors - such power is a much better ally than enemy, and demanding
a 40 GigaCredit fine (sorry, "contribution") might make them a lot less
friendly.

Regardless, I would say that if a Megacorp wanted to do something
heinous, they would have layers and layers of deniability well in place
before the first nefarious act occurred. You might find a secret base,
but unless the penalty for tax evasion is death you're not getting him
to tell you where the profits went. It's likely that the front company
he was working for (a layer or two away from anything traceable to the
Megacorp in question) will happily liquidate him if they think he will talk,
and use people that can't be traced back to them to do it.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 12:06:08 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: Martian Metals Miniatures

At 10:46 AM 7/1/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Even worn; these figures would still make decent originals. Let's all agree
>with a donation price (in return for one set of figures), who will hold the
>money and mail the check to the seller, who will get the originals, who will
>cast them, and who will mail the copies out to the contributors. This is A
LOT
>of work. Also, most important; is this LEGAL?
>
>Seth
>
>PS; I will contribute for a set of figures

Count me in!  I have a friend who is going to be casting the old Morrow
Project figures.  Timeline gave him the authorization and he had the
original molds, so perhaps he could do the casting.
 

Kurt Feltenberger

“We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a
habit.”
- --- Aristotle ---

mailto:kurt@blazenet.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 09:01:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)

Matthew Harelick writes:
> Ah, but would you settle it at all?
> 
> Consider that the Imperium is much more advanced that current Earth
> technology. If we extrapolate some current technology to Traveller (as is
> done with other things) , isn't possible to say that we can predict a
> SuperNova sort of how we predict earthquakes or other weather patterns on
> Earth? 
(a) If the imperium can predict supernovae as well as we can predict
earthquakes, or weather more than a week in advance, I'm not worried....
(b) looking at some of the Traveller worlds, settlers in Traveller have done
many moronic things.
> 
> Now if the Imperium can do this they can give a Star and a system , and the
> surrounding areas some kind of rating based on the predicted lifetime of
> the star. Considering that the Imperium (at the time of the Rebellion) is
> at least a thousand years old, a star can be predicted to
>     1) Overdue for a SuperNova or other major event.
>     2) Completely Stable
>     3) Major Stellar event expected within a thousand years.
Probably more like 'expected within 100,000 years'.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 12:05:38 -0400
From: "Ed Leland" <eleland@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Martian Metals Miniatures

Count me in as well!  Now does the guy selling them know that we're
plotting this? :)

Ed Leland
eleland@gte.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 12:16:30 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: CD ROM and sector generators 

> 	Yes, there are sector, world and star generators on the CD, mapping software,
> sector viewers, character generators and more character generators, sector
> printers.
> 	Some of them even include the source code. And some are shareware (though
> whether it's possible to register some of the software might be debatable).
> 	There are also alien language generators, ship design aids.
> 	And more things being added weekly (actually daily).

Any of these happen to run under Linux by any chance?

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 12:38:20 -0700
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: Appearance of Jump Space 

 "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net> types:
>> >I go with jump space being featureless as well..the true definition of
>> >nothingness.  However, I still use the description of shifting,
>> >swirling colors.
>> I tell my players; "Close your eyes.  That is what it looks
>> like except without all the blackness."
>I tell them it's the grey of a TV set on an empty channel.  Guess I was
just too influenced >by Neuromancer...

     Gee...I thought that color was blue.  

Gibson does age well for the most part...


- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for 
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked" 
                 http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 09:46:09 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Imperial Dating System

Christopher Thrash wrote:
> 
> Does anyone know off-hand why the Terran equivalent (AD) date for the
> founding of the Imperium and the Holiday Year (Year 0) changed from AD 4521
> in CT, to AD 4518 in MT and TNE, back to 4521 in T4? 

Well, there _is_ a reason they called it MegaTypo...;-)

Actually there was a discussion about this about the time that T4 came
out, and MM's official word was that any event not in the current milieu
is to be considered aproximate. After all we are typically dealing with
dates several hundreds if not thousands of years in the past.



Take the T4 date (4521) as canon.
- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #621
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Wednesday, July 1 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 622



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Martian Metals
Technology Marches On
Re: Appearance of Jump Space
Re: CD ROM and sector generators
Re: Local defense budget
Re: Small scale colonisation in Traveller
Re: Questions on TML
Re: Appearance of Jump Space 
Re: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)
Re: Hello and a question
re:TL, defense, and installation questions
Ok, I'll bite
Shouldn't we be dead? (was Re: Supernovas)
Traveller Software tools for Linux
Re: Ok, I'll bite
Re: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)
Re: Imperial Dating System
Transponders and starport beacon logs
Re: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)
Re: Traveller Software tools for Linux
Re: Traveller Software tools for Linux
Re: Traveller Software tools for Linux
Re: Appearance of Jump Space 
Re: Questions on TML

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 13:00:00 EDT
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Martian Metals

>Almost all of them are the old "Martian Metals" 15mm Traveller line.
>Now itís my understanding that most of these molds were destroyed in a fire
>at Martian Metals many years ago. Maybe someone out there can confirm this,
>but I do know that I have NEVER,in  almost twenty years of attending cons
>,seen  these miniatures offered for sale. I have never seen them ANYWHERE
>else, except in my collection.  I mention this not only to make them sound
>extremely rare (ohh,ahhh) but to find out once and for all if the fire
>story is true.

 I had it straight from Steve Jackson (of SJG), once a close associate of
Martian Metals, that MM did indeed burn, and that most or all of their molds
and equipment were lost. Among the lamented dead are the only miniatures for
Rivets or Chitin-1 ever produced...

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 12:24:59 -0500 
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: Technology Marches On

Below are excerpts from one of today's articles at abc.com:

- -- quote --

Bionic Man is on the Horizon 

Special to ABCNEWS.com
     June 23 - In The Six Million Dollar Man, Lee Majors played
an astronaut brought back to life after a terrible crash, with
mechanical eyes and limbs that gave him superhuman powers.
The catch phrase on the show was, "We have the technology."
Now this line is more than just a catch phrase, it's a reality. 
     Carol Burns started going deaf five years ago. "I always
felt like I was on the outside looking in," she says. "I wasn't
really fully a part of everything." 
     Last year, Burns received a cochlear implant, a tiny device
embedded inside her ear. It translates sound into the electrical
impulses her brain needs to understand sound. 
     "The telephone? I've gone from barely being able to hear
a dial tone to understanding 96 percent on the phone now,"
she beams. 

This Is Not SciFi 
     And what works for ears will also work for eyes and
someday even limbs, as in the well-known 1970s television
series. We have the capability to build the world's first bionic
man....

A Bionic Brain
...Dr. Jerry Pine and his team of scientists at Cal Tech...
invented the neurochip, a device that combines computer chips
with living brain cells.

- -- endquote --

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 10:33:10 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Appearance of Jump Space

Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:

> I tell them it's the grey of a TV set on an empty channel.  Guess I was just too influenced by Neuromancer...

Naah, then all the players shout, in unison, in high squeaky voices:
"They're heeeeere!"

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 10:35:11 -0700
From: Mike Wittek <mwittek@thelair.cnchost.com>
Subject: Re: CD ROM and sector generators

Who and where can you get this CD ROM? What is the cost?

- --
Mike Wittek | Vacaville, California
mailto:mwittek@thelair.cnchost.com | http://www.thelair.cnchost.com
     "Democracy isn't just the best form of government; It's the only one even remotely
worth a damn. Only democracy guarantees that people get what they deserve."   --Zena
Marley

DISCLAIMER: All that I write is my own opinion, and my opinion may not be the opinion of
my school or electronic courier. For that matter, it may not be your opinion, but deal
with it.

------------------------------

Date: 01 Jul 1998 13:43 EDT
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Re: Local defense budget

Yah, here's the latest tweak to the algorithm... but first:

1. Hans made me think: a rare thing indeed!  The local law
   enforcement budget could be rather strongly tied to the system's
   UWP, yes?

2. If so, then perhaps traffic protection is an Imperial thing,
   while local enforcement and is a different thing.  Oh, what a
   headache.  For now I'll just lump them together and let that
   idea simmer awhile.

Anyway:
The article is posted at

	http://www.metronet.com/~washi/Tas/Calida_Orbital/index.html

A script to do all the hard work is at

	http://www.metronet.com/~washi/Tas/Online/index.html

...except it seems to still use an index of 0.39... naughty, naughty,
my mistake.



First, calculate a 'trade index' like so:

	  Starport (A=3, B=2, C=1, D=0, E=-1, X=-2)

	+ ( Population digit  - 6 )

        + ( ceiling( TL / 2 ) - 4 )	# 'ceiling' means round up!
				  	# don't round at all for granularity...
        + ( Naval Base?  +1 )
          ( XBoat Route? +1 )
          ( Gas Giant?   +1 )
          ( Amber Zone?  -2 )
          ( Red Zone?    -4 )

This produces a value V from -16 to 14, or thereabouts.

To find the traffic between two worlds:

	1. Caculate the systems' trade indices, V1 and V2.

	2. Subtract the distance D (in parsecs) from V1 and V2:

		V1a = V1 - D
		V2a = V2 - D

	3. There is no trade if either value is less than 1.
	   Otherwise, the passenger traffic is:
	
	10 ^ [ ( V1a * V1b ) ^ 0.36 ]

	So, the "population digit" for weekly passenger
  	traffic is

	     [ ( V1a * V1b ) ^ 0.36 ]


The exponent and the UWP value mappings are the numbers I fiddle
with for now... the equation is about as complex as I like it; a
different equation of relative simplicity would also be fine by me.

Examples:
									
Jae Tellona   2814 A560565-8  N Ni De              913 	Index: 5
Porozlo       2715 A867A74-B    Hi                 201  Index: 10
Rhylanor      2716 A434934-F  A Hi Cp              810  Index: 12
Celepina      2913 B434456-9  A Ni                 201  Index: 4


Traffic Pair		D V1a, V2a Passengers/wk	
:---------------------- - -------- -------------
JT - Porozlo		1   4, 9	  4,295			
JT - Rhylanor		2   3, 10	  2,524
JT - Celepina		2   3, 2	     80
Porozlo - Rhylanor	1   9, 11	169,480
Porozlo - Celepina	3   7, 1	    103
Rhylanor - Celepina	4   8, 0   * insignificant *


By the way, the combined populations of the system pairs above are:

System Pair		Combined Populations	Trips per individual per year
:---------------------- --------------------	-----------------------------
JT - Porozlo		 20,000,900,000		    1 per    100,000
JT - Rhylanor		  8,000,900,000		    1 per     64,000
JT - Celepina		        920,000		    1 per        230 !!!
Porozlo - Rhylanor	 28,000,000,000		    1 per      3,304
Porozlo - Celepina	 20,000,020,000		    1 per 16,000,000
Rhylanor - Celepina	  8,000,020,000			n/a


The only shocker to me is the JT-Celepina connection... that's a really
high rate for those populations.  And they're just borderline starfarers
too... yet almost one third of the entire population of Celepina will
make a trip to Jae Tellona over a citizen's lifetime.


Here's the Regina examples:

Regina        1910 A788899-C  A Ri Cp              703  I: 10
Hefry         1909 C200423-7  S Ni Va              320	I: 0
Jenghe        1810 C799663-9  S Ni                 323  I: 3
Yori          2110 C360757-A    Ri De              713	I: 4
Forboldn      1808 E893614-4    Ni                 312	I: -2
Dinomn        1912 B674632-9  S Ag Ni              204	I: 4

Traffic Pair		D V1a, V2a Pass/wk	Trips/indiv/yr	
:---------------------- - -------- -------	--------------
Regina-Hefry		1   9, -1    n/a	
Regina-Jenghe		1   9,  2    677	1 per 20,768
Regina-Yori		2   8,  3  1,379	1 per 11,167
Regina-Forboldn		2   8, -4    n/a	
Regina-Dinomn		2   8,  2    516	1 per 27,209


Suggestions entertained.

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 12:46:03 -0500 (CDT)
From: Alan Peery <peery@io.com>
Subject: Re: Small scale colonisation in Traveller

On Thu, 2 Jul 1998, Ian or Katts wrote:

> PS I love the fan mail on it, 

Consider this one more... :-)

> but does anyone have any suggestions on
> things in it that dont quite work ?

OK, but remember this is from someone who hasn't looked at Pocket
Empires.  

The settlement results seem to imply that every place on the world's
surface is equally hospitable in that there is no "all the good land
it taken" multipliers.  If we are the first people to settle a planet,
we should be able to choose a location with *all* the right
attributes, if they exist anywhere on the world.  In essence, we're
guaranteed a good harbor, plentiful water etc.  It seems that this
factor should be significant, probably changing an annual growth rate
of 3% into an annual growth rate of 6%. (Neglecting external
investment.)

Of course, this has to be a decreasing function as the planet gains
more population.

Alan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 10:51:00 PDT
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Questions on TML

Walt Smith wrote:

>Regardless, I would say that if a Megacorp wanted to do something
>heinous, they would have layers and layers of deniability well in 
>place before the first nefarious act occurred. You might find a 

I must admit, that when I read this, I thought it said "lawyers and 
lawyers of deniability..."  I laughed, then realized what it said.  Then 
I realized that in fact, that was what was meant!  :-)

I've been thinking about the power of the Imperial Nobility, other 
worlds, and the various levels of corporations.  This would be a very 
interesting thread.  

An imperial noble in my mind is very powerful, especially at the higher 
levels.  A Marquis could make things very unpleasant for a company doing 
business on "his" world.  But I think that would depend on both the 
world and the company, as well as his connections to other nobility and 
pull at court.  A Sector-Wide company could ignore him though, don't you 
think, unless the world was a major producer of lanthanum-enriched 
widgets or whatever that the company needed.  How bout a subsector wide 
company?  You think the Evil Empire (tm) of MicroSoft is tough?  How 
bout when a company that spans WORLDS starts getting pissed...

And a MegaCorp?  I don't think there is much comparison, unless you are 
a Duke or ArchDuke.  Maybe a count could make them miserable for a 
while, but what if the corp turned on the noble and started a campaign 
against him?  

Lots of intrigue!

I'm working on this right now IMTU, and having a ball!
Greg Smith
The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 13:58:02 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Appearance of Jump Space 

> Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:
> 
> > I tell them it's the grey of a TV set on an empty channel.  Guess I was just too influenced by Neuromancer...
> 
> Naah, then all the players shout, in unison, in high squeaky voices:
> "They're heeeeere!"

ROFL!!!

Keven
- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 18:42:00 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:

>The Crab Nebula was a supernova that was witnessed by Chinese and other
>astronomers..according to the Encyclopedia Britannica:
>
>"The supernova was visible in daylight for 23 days and at night for
>almost 2 years."
>
>It is about 5000 ly from earth, or a little over 1500 parsecs away. Hey!
>I think we just found Talisman someplace his cave dwellers are running
>from!
>
>Yes this time I double checked how many light yers in a parsec: 3.258.

Please note that the Crab Nebula isn't in Imperial Space as stated in
"Missions of State" - Bruce knows this though ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 18:47:14 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Hello and a question

 Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> wrote:

>Richard Hough writes:
>
>>>>Look in your Traveller book regarding TL of a planet.
>>>>The maximum TL that can be LOCALLY PRODUCED.

'Produced', especially in this day and age, doesn't mean the same as made.
What if the TL of items 'produced relates to high tech equipment assembled
from components manufactured off world, or relates to the TL of the
equipment used to make items.

A modern day example would be a car plant outside the first world making
vehicles for Europe or North America, or a chemical/process plant built
from high tech equipment to meet a local need.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: 01 Jul 1998 13:59 EDT
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: re:TL, defense, and installation questions

Well, I certainly agree with Eris.  I've been fooling around
with equations and rules of thumb, to get a handle on the
Traveller universe.  Having done that, I then exclude every
world of significance from the strict application of those
rules: rather, I use the rules to derive general principles
about the universe.

EVERY world will vary as much as I need it to.

As with Eris, neither do I want the PCs to feel 100% secure about
ANYTHING except who they are... and even then surprises can happen.

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 14:03:43 -0700
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Ok, I'll bite

What are the offical names for:
Raiders'n'Traders
and
Corporate Brute Squad.



- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for 
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked" 
                 http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 11:20:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jim Vassilakos <jimv@e2.empirenet.com>
Subject: Shouldn't we be dead? (was Re: Supernovas)

Bruce writes:
>>Hm..wonder what the lethal distance for a supernova is?  Does
>>anyone actually know?
>
>It's a poorly known number; between a few parsecs and 10-20 parsecs is a
>reasonable range for guesses.
>
>On the other hand, the supernova rate for the whole galaxy is one per 10-50
>years, or about one per million years per sector, so there should be 
>relatively few in the Imperium.
>
>For even more excitement, a gamma-ray-burst event (if the numbers for the
>Really Big Burst recently observed are right) might have a kill radius of 
>fifty to a hundred parsecs.

Seems to me that all this poses a significant improbability for there
being advanced life on Earth. After all, it took us how many hundreds of
millions of years to get to this stage? If at any point along the way
we could have been wiped out by a nearby supernova, gamma-ray burst,
chuck of rock, etc... then what are the odds of all these things _not_
happening? Clearly, we got hit by a few rocks. Life bounces back. But
if a supernova or gamma-ray burst can _sterilize_ the planet at 10-100
parsecs, then it seems to me that the odds against advanced life just
became nearly insurmountable. The fact that we are here to appreciate
this notion shows that perhaps we are among the lucky few, and it
forms quite a nice solution to Fermi's Paradox about why aliens aren't
dropping out of the sky like flies. Anyone want to run some numbers
and theorize about the odds of some random, life-bearing planet
clearing this hurdle? I mean, is it something like 10%? 1%? 0.00001%?
This would have a huge impact on any SF-campaign.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 14:55:18 -0400
From: Matthew Harelick <matth@CYBERNEX.NET>
Subject: Traveller Software tools for Linux

Hi:

Does anyone know of Traveller software tools that run under Linux?

Matthew

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 14:54:47 -0400
From: "johannes" <johannes@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Ok, I'll bite

- -----Original Message-----
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Wednesday, July 01, 1998 2:06 PM
Subject: Ok, I'll bite


>What are the offical names for:
>Raiders'n'Traders
>and
>Corporate Brute Squad.
>


These are semi-facetious names I use for the ruts that many Traveller
campaigns tend to fall into.  'Raiders 'n Traders' is where the characters
are merchants, buying and selling cargos with the occasional pirate
encounter or smuggling venture.  OK for beginners, but they never seem to
really go anywhere.  'Corporate Brute Squad' has the characters as mostly
ex-Army and Marine types, doing odd jobs (usually illegal and/or violent)
for various mystery patrons.  These are the Traveller equivalents of the D&D
'dungeon  crawl' and 'you meet a cloaked stranger in a tavern' schticks.
Sorry for any confusion!

John

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 15:01:08 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)

> Consider that the Imperium is much more advanced that current Earth
technology.
> If we extrapolate some current technology to Traveller (as is done with
other
> things) , isn't possible to say that we can predict a SuperNova sort of how
we
> predict earthquakes or other weather patterns on Earth?

I recall from Survival Margin that Antares was being studied and was expected
to go supernova relatively recently.

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 15:01:07 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Imperial Dating System

>> Does anyone know off-hand why the Terran equivalent (AD) date for the
>> founding of the Imperium and the Holiday Year (Year 0) changed from AD 4521
>> in CT, to AD 4518 in MT and TNE, back to 4521 in T4? 
> 
> Well, there _is_ a reason they called it MegaTypo...;-)

Yeah, but was T4 much better in this area? ; )

> Actually there was a discussion about this about the time that T4 came
> out, and MM's official word was that any event not in the current milieu
> is to be considered aproximate. After all we are typically dealing with
> dates several hundreds if not thousands of years in the past.
> 
> 
> Take the T4 date (4521) as canon.

mmm...  I'd say treat the date as c4518-4521.  Until an IW era book comes out
use one of your preference.  

Gary

------------------------------

Date: 01 Jul 1998 15:09 EDT
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Transponders and starport beacon logs

Diary of Sunbeard the Pirate

200-1017
Dear Diary,

Went to Louie's place on Treece last week and traded my old T5 transponder 
plug-on for one with three slots... one E/P slot just isn't enough for me.
Just yesterday I found a guy ('Lefty') with some stolen registry tapes, and 
bought a couple hundred ship codes off him.  That should keep me going for 
awhile.

Since Treece is off the X-Boat route, and Inthe is clamping down on
expenditures to make its starport upgrade payments, the Courier's
schedule is a bit spotty.  Also, few of these tramp liners bother to
enter their manifest with the starport authority... heck, lots don't
even file flight plans.  Why bother?  A misjump is a 50-50 chance of
death anyhow; why give away your coords to the repo man?  So an
occasional, accidental wipe of the records isn't going to be noticed
much... I'll bet there are several different official transponder
log collectors covering Treece -- say, a dozen organizations, mega-
corps, and banks (and don't forget the Scouts and Navy) for Regina,
Inthe, and Rhylanor, who occasionally whip by and grab whatever logs
are here.  There's way too much human element to keep track of all
visitors.  Oh, and don't forget people like Lefty, who is smart
enough to break into the beacon and force a purge.

Anyway, Treece gets no real traffic per week: just last week I see
there were 4 ships who registered... a 600t liner, a far trader,
and a couple of scouts... I know of a couple others who were here
but didn't register.

Hey, lookie here.  Says here that Treece's starport (really just
a few outbuildings and a 400-ton fuel depot) cost under 50 million
credits.  That's pretty cheap.  A wealthy individual could build
himself one, if he had a reason to.

Well, I'm off to pillage a small trading post in the local asteroid
belt.  Wish me luck!

Sunbeard the Pirate

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 12:12:12 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)

SD Mooney wrote:
 
> Please note that the Crab Nebula isn't in Imperial Space as stated in
> "Missions of State" - Bruce knows this though ;-)
> 

Yes but Talisman's putative 'thousands of generations later' travellers
could certainly be refugees from that disaster. If they were travelling
at sub-c, the timing is even about right...

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 12:19:33 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Traveller Software tools for Linux

Um, on my last post I meant the TML CD, not the Traveller CD which are
two different critters...

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 12:18:55 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Traveller Software tools for Linux

A number of the old programs on the Traveller CD are in ansi 'C'; I have
a subsector mapper 'sub2ps' on my web site (not mine, I simply found and
posted it; it used to be on the sunbane or one of the other defunct ftp
sites); it has successfully compilesd with gcc on a DEC Unix box.

I suspect that most of them would run perfectly fine under linux.

Matthew Harelick wrote:
> 
> Hi:
> 
> Does anyone know of Traveller software tools that run under Linux?
> 
> Matthew

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 15:32:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael and MJ Houghton <herveus@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Software tools for Linux

Howdy!

> Hi:
> 
> Does anyone know of Traveller software tools that run under Linux?
> 
I'm in the process of porting Jim Vassilakos Galactic program to run
on a Mac (using MacPerl) and on Unix (using Perl and Tk). The Unix
version is coming along nicely; the Mac version a bit more slowly.

I don't have an ETA for either.

yours,
Michael


- -- 
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@access.digex.net  | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
                          | http://www.access.digex.net/~herveus/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 20:17:08 +1200
From: Steve Rennell <wulf@sea.southern.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Appearance of Jump Space 

Keven wrote:
> I tell them it's the grey of a TV set on an empty channel.  Guess I was just too
> influenced by Neuromancer...

I was surprised to learn that there are people who took 
that to mean that the sky was clear and blue - seems the youth of 
today are growing up with TV sets that bluescreen when 
there isn't a signal... 

sigh... The technology is changing all the similes.

Steve

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 12:15:48 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Questions on TML

Greg Smith wrote:
>
> I've been thinking about the power of the Imperial Nobility, other
> worlds, and the various levels of corporations.  This would be a very
> interesting thread.
> 
> An imperial noble in my mind is very powerful, especially at the higher
> levels.  A Marquis could make things very unpleasant for a company doing
> business on "his" world.  

Remember...The 3I is a _commerce_ based empire...Ol' Cleon probably made
the heads of the Megacorps nobility to start with. The Nobles are far
more tangled in the affairs of the megacorps, than simply letting tem
run offices on their planets...

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #622
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Traveller-digest       Wednesday, July 1 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 623



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller Software tools for Linux 
Re: Technology Marches On
Re: Technology Marches On
TravSuite released as Shareware
Re: When Worlds Collide
Re: When Worlds Collide
Re: When Worlds Collide
Re: Armed merchants
Re: Traveller Software Tools and Linux
Missing in Mesa
Re: Traveller Software tools for Linux
Re: Martian Metals Miniatures
Re: Technology Marches On
Re: Traveller Software tools for Linux
Re: Appearance of Jump Space
FF&S-T4 Errata
Re: Traveller Software tools for Linux
Re: Martian Metals Miniatures
testing (sorry)
Re: Martian Metals Miniatures
Martian Metals Minis
Re: Subject: Re: Armed merchants
Re: Armed merchants

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 16:01:29 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Software tools for Linux 

> I'm in the process of porting Jim Vassilakos Galactic program to run
> on a Mac (using MacPerl) and on Unix (using Perl and Tk). The Unix
> version is coming along nicely; the Mac version a bit more slowly.

I volunteer to test it on Unix.

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 16:06:52 -0400
From: ringrose@ascent.com
Subject: Re: Technology Marches On

Request (not a flame):

I don't mind people posting news stories -- if there's some traveller
related commentary, like a discussion of what TL bionic limbs would be
and how much they could do, how long, or how rugged they'd be.  I can
get news stories off AP.


  From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
       Last year, Burns received a cochlear implant, a tiny device
  embedded inside her ear. It translates sound into the electrical
  impulses her brain needs to understand sound. 

I know someone who's working on doing cochlear implants.  This has
been reality for a couple years now.  It is useful for a specific kind
of hearing loss in which the nerves are still OK, but the ear
structure is not.  Normal hearing aids won't work.  But the implants
only send - the brain can't alter them directly.

  This Is Not SciFi 
       And what works for ears will also work for eyes and
  someday even limbs, as in the well-known 1970s television
  series. We have the capability to build the world's first bionic
  man....

As someone who's worked with locomotion in the MIT Leg Lab, which is
also doing research into knee orthoses, they have a few obstacles to
overcome before the six million dollar man comes into play.  Two that
leap to the top of my mind are power and control.  Enough power to wag
your leg around for hours will drain batteries pretty fast.  More
importantly, transferring impulses to motions is an extremely
difficult area of research.

  A Bionic Brain
  ...Dr. Jerry Pine and his team of scientists at Cal Tech...
  invented the neurochip, a device that combines computer chips
  with living brain cells.

I recall an article about successfully growing cells onto a computer
chip.  It didn't see if any two-way interaction came about, or how
long the cells could live.  Anybody know?


It seems to me that to control "bionic" limbs to be as good as the
real thing, one would need to automatically connect the right nerves
and decode the impulses.  There are too many nerves to do it any other
way.  So at what TL would such be possible?

	- Robert Ringrose
	  ringrose@ascent.com
	  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 13:44:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
Subject: Re: Technology Marches On

> It seems to me that to control "bionic" limbs to be as good as the
> real thing, one would need to automatically connect the right nerves
> and decode the impulses.  There are too many nerves to do it any other
> way.  So at what TL would such be possible?

Granted that different planets might develop certain aspects of technology
more than others, but it has always been my opinion that the ability to
clone/grow/regenerate replacement body parts would be of a lower tech
level than making truly realistic  electronic ones. Granted that
electronic limbs offer
some advantages, but if that were so great, why not just have your limbs
cut off and replaced premptively. Most people wouldn't see that as a great
idea.

I think that at Imperial tech levels you would see biological replacement
rather than mechanical replacement for injured/severed limbs. Maybe at
Tech Level B or so.

MHO.

Ben

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 21:49:40 +0100
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: TravSuite released as Shareware

In Autumn of '96 Imperium Games approached me and asked me to produce the
official software for Marc Miller's Traveller. On January 1st, 1997 this
was release through CORE. Further updates were planned but due to a lack of
sales these were cancelled. TravSuite continued to sell until December
31st, 1997, when it was withdrawn from the market.
    A period of grace of six months has passed and I am now making it
available again as freeware. The product is available for upload from
"http://members.nova.org/~sol/core/travrel1.zip". This is the same product
as was released before. There have been no updates or bug fixes. The
software is provided as-is with no support.
    In respect for those who previously paid for TravSuite I'm happy to
expand their lisence to now include source code, for personal use only.
Please contact me directly regarding this. I regret that the project could
not have been continued or done to a higher quality, but the market was
just not going to support it.
   Cheers,
          Jo Grant

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 16:09:25 -0500
From: Talisman <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: When Worlds Collide

Leonard Erickson wrote:

> As I recall, you ought to be safe at about 20-50 parsecs. Inside that,
> it'll screw up planetary magnetic fields, cause massive radiation
> problems, and other nasties.
>
> But I was saying that neutrino detectors are designed for a much
> *lower* neutrino flux. It'd be sort of like taking a night vision scope
> to Mercury and pointing it at the sun. Fry!

Ahh, so it would just be expensive to live in that sector radius...unless you were
a neutrino sensor salesman.
- --
My god, it's full of stars!


Http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/4467

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 16:10:32 -0500
From: Talisman <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: When Worlds Collide

Leonard Erickson wrote:

> > Gee... does the ship^H^H^H^Hplanet have vestiges of a hexagonal grid on
> > its surface? :)
>
> If it does, my first response would be to set full thrust *away* from
> the planet, and jump as soon as it is safe!

Have i missed somthing here?


- --
My god, it's full of stars!


Http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/4467

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 16:14:45 -0500
From: Talisman <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: When Worlds Collide

Leonard Erickson wrote:

> Anyway, you go thru all this, and it works out that 1e17
> (100,000,000,000,000,000) neutrinos would be detected by a square meter
> of detector at 10 AU. And using our "one in a zillion detected" rule,
> that means that you'd have 1e17 *times* a zillion neutrinos passing
> thru. Only the 1e17 would actually *affect* anything. Such as anybody
> in the vicinity.

Oh, now I am scared.  All this because I asked about people living in an impromptu
world ship.  I don't even want to think about what you all would come up with from
some of my other 'odd' game ideas.  This is cool.

- --
My god, it's full of stars!


Http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/4467

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 14:34:37 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Armed merchants

Wed, 1 Jul 1998 10:00:51 -0400, "Bob Sanders" <bsanders@amghome.com>

>During my stay with the US Navy I spent some time in Norfolk, the largest US
>military port, and also the largest warehouse for the military.  While I was
>there the base was rocked to discover that several people had been stealing
>supplies from the base for _years_!!! Not just little things like boots,
>pens, etc... I am talking about big stuff like the TF-30 jet engines for the
>F-14 Tomcat.  Some had found their way to Iran to keep their old 14's in the
>air!

Yeah, and a friend who had worked at Lawrence Livermore Labs (an
installation you need secret clearance to get into) had
to have a lock down device for his calculator because of all
the theft.

>Now it would seem to me that if stuff can be removed from a high security
>place like Norfolk, then it would be easy to move between the channels of
>something the size of the Imperium.

Yeah, people put too much faith into systems of documentation.
And that is in the US where it only takes seconds to send a
message by phone, etc. compared to an Imperium where it
takes weeks to months.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 17:49:20 EDT
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller Software Tools and Linux

	At least one of them has the C source code and could be used on Linux
(understandably it might need some fixes).


Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 14:27:40 -0600
From: chet-el@juno.com (Chester L Cox)
Subject: Missing in Mesa

Not too long ago, someone on this list told me that James King (who used
to publish *Voyages* for sf games) was still at 50 Basin Dr in Mesa, WA. 
Have tried contacting him there, and at his old phone number.  The
directory operator tells me there is no King listed in Mesa these days.

Has anyone an e-mail address or updated snail mail address (or phone
number) for James?  

Or, if anyone is willing to pass on this to him, my phone number is
801-222-2832, and the e-mail address is Chet-el@juno.com.

Thanks~!

*jeep!
- --Chet

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 15:36:44 -0700
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Traveller Software tools for Linux

At 03:32 PM 7/1/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Howdy!
>
>> Hi:
>> 
>> Does anyone know of Traveller software tools that run under Linux?
>> 
>I'm in the process of porting Jim Vassilakos Galactic program to run
>on a Mac (using MacPerl)...

I like that idea.  That is one of the few programs out there that make me
fire up the PC work sent home...

Scott

Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 17:08:31 +0200
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Martian Metals Miniatures

sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:
th
> 
> PS; I will contribute for a set of figures
me, as well (to avoid a mee too! ;-)

- -- 
					 Volker
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
     /----------------------------------------------------------\
    /  Volker A. Greimann  Am Weidengraben 86, C6  54296 Trier   \
   /  grei5001@uni-trier.de   GERMANY    greimann@geocities.com   \
  /  ICQ:9767142      http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061   \
 /  Please don´t try to stop me-I´m just barely ahead of insanity   \
/--------------------------------------------------------------------\

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 16:03:55 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Technology Marches On

Brannon Boren wrote:
> 
>Granted that
> electronic limbs offer
> some advantages, but if that were so great, why not just have your limbs
> cut off and replaced premptively. Most people wouldn't see that as a great
> idea.

I suspect we should wait until such effective artificial limbs/organs
are available and reliable before we make any pronouncement about how
many people would do it. The lack of cyber gear in Traveller is a very
consious decision on the part of the games designers, at least in this
'Cyberpunk 2020' day and age.

After all, look at how many people wore contact lenses when they were
hard, as opposed to now with soft, cheap, disposable lenses. Hell
they're giving away free trial pairs on TeeVee.

They are a significant number of people who wear non-corrective soft
lenses simply to change their eye color; a cosmetic thing.

Granted, this isn't the same as whacking off your arm and replacing it
with a cyber implant, but it's a clear indication of where people draw
the acceptability line. When I first got contact lenses, back in '69 or
so (I was quite young when I got them) getting accustomed to them was a
long painful process that took over a month; someone wearing them just
to change eye color would have been considered eccentric to dangerously
insane, depending on who you asked.

When cyber limb replacements are around that give the level of sensation
and control that natural limbs do, with good reliability, I'm sure there
are people who will consider getting them quite easily.

Say you're (to suggest a hackneyed stereotype) 'Microelectronics
technician' having an arm with interchangeable, highly controllable
micromanipulators built-in, so to speak might be a natural thing to
have.

Mind you, exterior replacement arms with advanced feedback might come
close, but having something directly wired into your nervous system
would definitely give you an advantage.


- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 19:48:18 -0400
From: Matthew Harelick <matth@CYBERNEX.NET>
Subject: Re: Traveller Software tools for Linux

Why use TCL?

Why not use Java so its compatible everywhere?


Scott Ellsworth wrote:

> At 03:32 PM 7/1/98 -0400, you wrote:
> >Howdy!
> >
> >> Hi:
> >>
> >> Does anyone know of Traveller software tools that run under Linux?
> >>
> >I'm in the process of porting Jim Vassilakos Galactic program to run
> >on a Mac (using MacPerl)...
>
> I like that idea.  That is one of the few programs out there that make me
> fire up the PC work sent home...
>
> Scott
>
> Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
> "When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment
> results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
> "The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 16:44:10 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Appearance of Jump Space

Steve Rennell wrote:

> I was surprised to learn that there are people who took
> that to mean that the sky was clear and blue - seems the youth of
> today are growing up with TV sets that bluescreen when
> there isn't a signal...

Well, um, err..ARRRGGGHHH I can't hold it any longer...

Steve, those are actually people who own those new, experimental
MicrosoftTV's (R). They actually pop up with a blue screen all the
time...

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 20:14:17 EDT
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: FF&S-T4 Errata

I just "stumbled" over a bit of errata for the T4 edition of FF&S, but I'd
really rather see a list of such before I blast the authors/editors for
something they already know about. IS there such a list?????

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 20:27:33 -0400
From: Michael Houghton <herveus@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Software tools for Linux

Howdy!

Matthew Harelick inquired:

>Why use TCL?

I'm not using Tcl, I'm using pTk with Perl.
>
>Why not use Java so its compatible everywhere?
>
I don't know Java, and didn't feel like starting here. I'm having fun with
Tk building the GUI from the ground up. It is working pretty well so far;
it draws the subsector maps nicely.
>
>Scott Ellsworth wrote:
>
>> At 03:32 PM 7/1/98 -0400, you wrote:
>> >Howdy!
>> >
>> >> Hi:
>> >>
>> >> Does anyone know of Traveller software tools that run under Linux?
>> >>
>> >I'm in the process of porting Jim Vassilakos Galactic program to run
>> >on a Mac (using MacPerl)...
>>
>> I like that idea.  That is one of the few programs out there that make me
>> fire up the PC work sent home...
>>


yours,
Michael

- ------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@access.digex.net  | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
                          | http://www.access.digex.net/~herveus/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 17:56:55 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Martian Metals Miniatures

>Even worn; these figures would still make decent originals. Let's all agree
>with a donation price (in return for one set of figures), who will hold the
>money and mail the check to the seller, who will get the originals, who will
>cast them, and who will mail the copies out to the contributors. This is A LOT
>of work. Also, most important; is this LEGAL?

  Without the permission of the original company or the current holders of
said rights it would be theft, AFAIK. Or piracy, if you'll pardon the
expression. 

  FWIW, the Martian Metals figures are hardly worth copying, as they're of
truly marginal quality (see page 21 of "Adventure Gaming #6 12/81" supplied
by Mr. Spieker for photos of better looking than average MM figs) to begin
with, even before the additional detail degradation to be expected with
recreating molds*.

  *I've been told that the higher quality options are impractical for quantity.

  It might be more productive (and at least legal) to track down this company
"Hobby Products GmbH" who seem to be re-releasing under license the 15mm figures
from Citadel, which were (IMNSHO) the best 15mm Trav figures ever done. Is there
anyone on the list well-placed to look into a seemingly German mini's producer?

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 21:10:37 -0400
From: "Eric & Diane Freitas" <ericfreitas@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: testing (sorry)

testing

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 20:24:40 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Martian Metals Miniatures

At 10:46 am 7/1/98 EDT, you wrote:
>Even worn; these figures would still make decent originals. Let's
all agree
>with a donation price (in return for one set of figures), who will
hold the
>money and mail the check to the seller, who will get the originals,
who will
>cast them, and who will mail the copies out to the contributors.
This is A LOT
>of work. Also, most important; is this LEGAL?

I propose

	... the original poster of the offer act as the intermediary to get
the actual figures.
	... the person doing the casting keep the duplicates as partial
payment for the actual effort involved

I very deliberately didn't identify the person in mind for two
reasons. (1) My memory is failing and I'm not 100% certain who I
remember; (2) I don't even know if the person is interested, and
didn't want to expose him/her to the concerted whinings of the entire
list aimed in his/her direction; (3) there may be others beyond the
one I remember!

	In addition to the actual cost of purchasing the "originals,"
whoever wants copies will have to cough up the cost of making them
and mailing them. That's the other part of the partial payment. I'd
consider the originals and the ability to have the molds as the
incentive.

	As for legality--I'm no lawyer, and I don't play one in Traveller,
but I feel fairly confident in this assessment: it's ONLY legal if
Martian Metals gives their consent. And I've no idea if they would.
Does anybody on the list have a special in with them, or should we
approach them shotgun?
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 22:28:50 EDT
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Martian Metals Minis

>From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
>Subject: Re: Martian Metals Miniatures
>
>Even worn; these figures would still make decent originals. Let's all agree
>with a donation price (in return for one set of figures), who will hold the
>money and mail the check to the seller, who will get the originals, who will
>cast them, and who will mail the copies out to the contributors. This is A
LOT
>of work. Also, most important; is this LEGAL?
>
>Seth

It's questionable. Here's something to check out first: Back when Martian
Metals was still in business, they licensed RAFM to produce the figs, with the
proviso that they could not be sold in the US. Since MM is now gone, I'm not
sure this holds, and RAFM may still have _their_ molds -- or at least their
masters.

Ask RAFM if they could consider a limited run if outsiders pay all the
costs...assuming the molds are still there. You'll get better quality figs
than someone's home copies, and stranger things have happened. 

Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 21:29:56 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net>
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Armed merchants

At 10:00 AM 7/1/98 -0400, "Bob Sanders" wrote:
>
>I thought that I may bring up a point about records, shipping, and the
>ability to escape detection...
>
>During my stay with the US Navy I spent some time in Norfolk, the largest US
>military port, and also the largest warehouse for the military.  While I was
>there the base was rocked to discover that several people had been stealing
>supplies from the base for _years_!!! Not just little things like boots,
>pens, etc... I am talking about big stuff like the TF-30 jet engines for the
>F-14 Tomcat.  Some had found their way to Iran to keep their old 14's in the
>air!
>
>Now it would seem to me that if stuff can be removed from a high security
>place like Norfolk, then it would be easy to move between the channels of
>something the size of the Imperium.
>
>Just my 2cr.

I have to agree with Bob on this one, when my ship was in Long Beach Naval
Shipyard they used old landing craft with the front ramp welded shut, as
pusher boats. They had several sitting on platforms made of railroad cross
ties at the end of jetty. The landing craft were about five feet off the
ground, on those railroad ties. 

One day a shipyard worker was sent out to pick out the best two of the five
on that jetty. He went out with a large mobile crane get them, place them
in the water and bring them back. He came back with the best two of the
three landing craft. What happened to the other two missing landing
craft...the shipyard never found out. The storage area was on the end of a
long jetty, with nothing their size around them, the jetty was on shipyard
property with a large fence wire on top. The shipyard used large mobile
cranes with place and remove them. Ingenious minds and time can do wonders.

Sinbad Sam
sinbad@hex.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 04:33:39 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Armed merchants

David P. Summers writes:

>I know you feel that you have a convincing case that piracy wouldn't exist,
>but I just don't see it. I really think it all depends on it fitting, or
>not, a set of assumption and a point of view rather than an objective
>demonstration of "reasonableness".

All very well, but if that is true, it should be easy for you to provide
an example of a set of assumptions (none of which directly contradicted
the canon) where piracy is viable. Then maybe I would not agree with you
about the assumptions, but if the ramifications of those assumptions did
indeed make piracy viable then I would have to admit that it was a question
about a simple difference of opinion concerning basic assumptions. Instead
you keep pecking away at one assumption at a time, but never presenting a
coherent whole.
 
> Wed, 1 Jul 1998 04:13:50 +0200 (METDST), Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
> 
>>Ah, but we are not talking about people that pass through an airport by
>>the hundreds every day, we are talking about starships that are visiting
>>Class E starports which only gets a few visitors per month.
> 
>Only if he is stupid enough to visit the port at a system he has
>just committed piracy at.  Otherwise you have to search all the
>systems within appropriate distance.

1) I've several times said that I was talking about the record he left
behind before he committed the piracy and the trail he will leave behind
if he goes back to normal merchant operations after the piracy. 2) So
what? I already said that the first step is to collect records from all
systems withing range.
 
>>That's assuming that this
>>merchant is running the risk of faking his identity long before he even
>>knows that he is going to luck into an opportunity to capture someone.
>>Which is a pretty silly assumption IMO.
> 
>Well, if he is also engaging in smuggling other activities, he already has
>reason to.  (A merchant who engages in both legal and illegal activities
>isn't going to be restricted to smuggling).

You have a point there. OK, if said merchant includes smuggling as part of
his legitimate merchant activities then he could have reason to use fake
identities on occasion.
  
>Yeah, and the Xboats only go along the back bone.  The news then
>has to be transmitted of the backbone and to many worlds it has to
>linger, waiting for the next courier.  My PCs have shown that
>it is quite possible to, if you try, keep ahead of news.

I see. You believe that it is possible for a normal merchant to keep
ahead of unwelcome news and to prove it you tell us that as a Referee
you have allowed your PCs to do so. Think about that one for a moment.  

>>In fact, I do believe I stated that just a few exchanges ago.
>>But that isn't what we're discussing, now is it? We're discussing
>>someone "running with the fishes", doing legitimate business in between
>>the occasional opportune capture.
> 
>No, I'm just talking of getting out the general region, then the
>authorities have a huge number of worlds and ships to search among.

This is an example of what I mean when I say that you focus on one
assumption at a time but fail to provide a coherent whole. Yes, a
ship can get from one venue to one a long way off by making a number
of jumps using wilderness refuelling to avoid visiting any starports.
But is that an economically sound strategy? Every jump the ship makes
without earning money is a loss. He will have to be able to fence the
captured loot for more than he loses by not carrying legitimate cargo
(or smugglers' goods!) instead.
 
>>That really goes without saying (though it leaves unexplained why he was
>>in the system to begin with if he didn't have any business in it),
> 
>He may be speculating on business being there, or he may abort
>business he had, etc.

And again you fail to address the basic economic principle involved: Every
jump he makes where he does not make any money is another jump that the
captured loot will have to compensate for.
 
>>Yes I know, but I still don't know (because you still haven't told me) how
>>you imagine that a ship can engage in legitimate merchant operations without
>>the people it does business with getting a pretty good idea about it. And
>>that's assuming it never carries freight. Or perhaps you think that there
>>are plenty of people willing to turn over a cargo to someone of whose
>>identity they don't have a pretty good idea?
> 
>They do have a "pretty good" idea.  A criminal works by being the rare
>exception to an otherwise reliable system.  If they are too numerous
>the system will break down.  The system of records is going to be good
>enough to keep crime down to a reasonable level so that merchants only
>have a low level of loss.

But the system you describe does not appear to be good enough to keep crime
down to a reasonable level. If a starship can use a false identity and then
go and capture a ship, take its cargo, and then skip to somewhere else and
be pretty safe from capture, what's to prevent a captain from using a false
identity, get a cargo loaded, and then skip to somewhere else and be pretty
safe from capture? If anything it seems to be a much better scam than piracy.
You cut out the whole business of hunting down and capturing another ship with
all its attendant risks and difficulties, and instead of having to take pot
luck on what cargo your victim is carrying, you can just read the cargo
manifest and wait for a particular juicy cargo to skip with. If the system
don't prevent piracy, how does it prevent this? And contrarywise, if it
prevents this, why does it not prevent piracy?

It's that business of focussing on one detail and missing the big picture
again.

>There is going to be something a chance 1/1,000 or 1/10,000 of a cargo
>getting lost to pirates, stolen by dishonest merchants, etc. (Similarly
>is the canon crime of skipping out on payments). All this hangs together
>and matches how crimes historically work.

But if it is so easy to get away with that sort of thing, why is it only
1 time in 1,000 or 10,000 that it happens?

>>What I refuse to believe is that just any rambling would-be pirate could
>>change the ship registry of all the starports and navy ships it may
>>encounter.
> 
>To catch a pirate this way the Imperium is going to need records of every
>port that every ship ever visits throughout the Imperium and they are going
>to have to be current.  (otherwise you are a ship that just came in from
>out of the sector).

I keep repeating that what I'm talking about here is identifying the
perpetrator of a pirate attack after the fact. That means the investigator
collects the evidence, taking some months to do so. Since we are talking
about a ship that up until the moment of the attack had been doing regular
merchant business, the ship will have been registered as outbound from a
world not too far from the crime (if coming from a world with a lot of
starship activity) or been noticed by someone local (if coming from a
world with very little starship activity). Oh, maybe the pirate got
lucky and came from a world where he wasn't noticed, but he will have
been registered on the previous jump or the one before that.

>Then they are going to have to check that with the transponder of every
>ship that arrives in port. This goes beyond "non trivial".

Since checking a transponder can be done by a computer subroutine, I don't
think that is correct.

>And even then, you don't catch a pirate that just does wilderness
>refueling, skips over a system, and leaves no record he was
>ever in the system in question.

No, but such a pirate is not doing legitimate merchant business (or even
non-legitimate) while he is doing that.

>>   I grant you that it's possible
>>to change your transponder code from FLAMING EYE to DRIVEN SNOW, but how
>>is that going to help you when there is no DRIVEN SNOW in the ship
>>registry?
> 
>Again, that assume that every planet has a current registry of
>every ship in service.  I don't believe this is possible.

Not every planet (just the ones with any system defenses) and not a 100%
current registry. But it dosen't have to be 100% current. You check the
new arrivals. Most won't fit the profile of the pirate. Of those that do
fit the profile, 99% are in the register. The last percent gets singled
out for attention. Why is that so hard to believe?

>>Nowadays they stamp engine numbers so deep into the engine that they only
>>way to remove them is to remove all the metal (which tend to be easily
>>spotted and detrimental to the performance of the engine to boot).
> 
>And, as metal working moves up to Traveller TL 12 or even 15 removing
>such thing that are mearly stamped into metal become trivial.

OK. You assume that in the Traveller universe it is easier to unkink
metal than to kink it. Fair enough. Dosen't contradict any canon I can
think of.
 
>>He is supposed to have been engaged in regular merchant operations until
>>he got his opportunity, remember? Multiple jumps between transactions is
>>not the reccomended way to make ends meet for a merchant.
> 
>Well, the free cargo helps a lot in changing that.

But is it enough? It is a matter of pure luck just how much the cargo is
worth.

>This assumes he takes just the cargo (which I favor).  If you pushed
>this you _might_ get me to think that they take the whole ship.
>In which case I would drop the levels of piracy the Imperium
>would tolerate by an order of magnitude or so.

Ah, but that is one of the things you don't get to drop. The level of
piracy is a matter of canon. Remember, the whole thread originally
arose because I claimed that piracy as portrayed in the CT canon did
not make sense. If you have to change the frequency of pirates from that
portrayed in CT sources in order to make piracy possible, then it does
not make sense as originally portrayed, now does it?
 
>>>You are going to get a lot of ships like the general type.
>
>>But almost all of them will show up at their proper destination because
>>they are not trying to fake anything.
> 
>How do you know that a ship hasn't shown up at their destination?

Simple. I check the records my agents have gathered and see that the
ship does not appear in any of them. And btw. the question should have
been how I check that a ship DID show up at its proper destination since
we are talking about eliminating ships as suspects, but the answer is
the same: Yoy check the records and see that it did show up.

>You can't telephone to find out.

You can do the equivalent, send an inquiry to the starport authorities
of the system or send an agent if there is no starport authority.

>But you are [not] going to know that the ship didn't show up at it's
>destination until weeks later, and then you have to take at least a week
>to send an alert to the neighboring system that will have to wait for
>transport to all those system.

Sure. Why do you think I was talking in terms of man-years to track them
down? Because it can keep several investigators occupied for months.

>>>He is going to go several worlds over before he does business.
> 
>>Thereby sticking out like a sore thumb wherever he winds up because he
>>arrives without having done any business with the neighboring systems.
> 
>And how do they know this.  They can telephone neighboring
>systems to see if he has.

Actually, I was talking about tracking him down months later when the
investigators have narrowed the possibilities down to a few prospects
and start tracking them down. But if you will allow me a tiny bit of
precautionary measures then _arriving_ ships can actually be checked
quite shortly after they arrive. All it takes is a routing dispatch
of starport records to all neighboring systems whenever a ship is
going in that directions.
 
>>>>I notice that you grasp at the extreme. Ship size is the absolutely
>>>>lowest limit of information you will have.
> 
>>>You presented this a minimum that was adequate to catch pirates.
>>>I was pointing out that it isn't even close to the task.
> 
>>"Pointing out" isn't the same thing as refuting.
>
>I agree.  However, you were accusing me of "grasping at extremes"
>I was pointing out how my response was, in fact, suitable based
>on what you had posted.

Except that by one of your own assumptions (that pirates will propably only
take cargoes), a lot more information would be available, so why argue
about a state of affairs that one of your own basic assumptions says
won't occur?

>Hans, we both know that most of these subpoints have been beaten to death.

Yes, but why? Because you argue about each subpoint in isolation without
trying to put it into perspective.

>I could give point that were given before and you could respond with
>responses that were given before and we could reargue ever subthread.
>But I'm just not intersted.

I would much prefer not to argue these subthreads one by one and instead
deal with a complete concept, but I can't until you (or some other pro-
piracy advocate) comes up with one.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"Facts are stubborn things, but not half so stubborn as fallacies."
                - Stella Maynard in "Anne of the Island"

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #623
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Thursday, July 2 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 624



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Ports & ship construction (CT) LONG
Re: Technology Marches On
Re: FF&S-T4 Errata
Re: Question on TL
Re: Ports & ship construction (CT) LONG
Re: Martian Metals Miniatures
Re: Martian Metals Miniatures
Re: Piracy and the late 3I
Re: questions on TL
Re: Martian Metals Miniatures
Re: Paper Trails and Pirates
Re: Martian Metal Minis for sale
FF&S-T4 Errata Found!
Re: Technology Marches On
T4 software
Re: Martian Metals
Re: Martian Metals Minis
Re: Technology Marches On
Re: questions on TL
Re: Megacorps - & - OOps
Re: Imperial Income & Piracy

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 22:38:46 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Ports & ship construction (CT) LONG

Howdy all! 

     I have been wondering; why is it possible for only type A starports to
build starships?  I could see a case being made that a class A port is the
only one with the facilities to build jump drives...but why not buy jump
drives and import them to a world with a class B port?  What other factors
might affect starship construction (besides TL obviously) ?

IMTU, I am using the CT starship construction rules (with modifications and
editions...putting it together in a document to post here soon), with HGv2 to
be used for large than 5000dt vessels.  I am thinking of having class B ports
capable of building ships up to 5000dt, and requiring A ports for anything
larger.  Feedback, perhaps?

On a related note, does anyone have any idea what the average yard capacity
(for shipbuilding purposes) a class A or B port would have?  I am running into
the problem that in my subsector, there are 2 worlds ( TL's D and C) with
populations of 9.  This gives them an enormous advantage over even the higher-
tech worlds, simply because of thier naval budget (using TCS).  It's kinda
like comparing the combat power of the US Navy to the combat power of the
Nigerian Navy :-)  I have considered  lowering the tax rate from Cr500 to
Cr100, but this hurts the smaller worlds even more.  I am thinking now that
yard capacity should be the limiting factor.  Anyone have any Real World (tm)
info to offer?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 20:35:09 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Technology Marches On

At 04:03 pm 7/1/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Brannon Boren wrote:
>> 
>>Granted that
>> electronic limbs offer
>> some advantages, but if that were so great, why not just have your
limbs
>> cut off and replaced premptively. Most people wouldn't see that as
a great
>> idea.
>
>I suspect we should wait until such effective artificial
limbs/organs
>are available and reliable before we make any pronouncement about
how
>many people would do it. The lack of cyber gear in Traveller is a
very
>consious decision on the part of the games designers, at least in
this
>'Cyberpunk 2020' day and age.

	Just as a real-world contribution to this, let me throw in
corrective surgery--after 20 years of near-blindness, I underwent
laser surgery (flap'n'zap). From being literally unable to see the
eyechart (big E is 20/400--I couldn't even see a grey blur), my eyes
went to 20/20 *overnight*. I'm now somewhere around 20/15 to 20/20.

	How many people would have even thought of something like this not
too many years ago? The basic concept has been around since the '40s,
when a surgeon was removing the front of corneas, freezing them,
placing them in a microlathe to correct the curvature, and
reattaching them. Well, I certainly wouldn't have even *considered*
that...
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 20:37:17 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: FF&S-T4 Errata

At 08:14 pm 7/1/98 EDT, you wrote:
>I just "stumbled" over a bit of errata for the T4 edition of FF&S, but I'd
>really rather see a list of such before I blast the authors/editors for
>something they already know about. IS there such a list?????

	There is. It's at http://users.aol.com/ogerdude/ffs-errata.htm, and
if you want to blast the editors, I have a 50Mj fusion toy laying
around here somewhere I can loan you. Or, if you like, you can blast
me as one of the authors ... I'll let you know if it's my fault or
the editor's.

	Whoops, there was no editing done ...
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 04:49:30 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Question on TL

Christian Gotschi writes:

> 	Why have TL9 weapons (if you could with a bit of difficulty get
> TL12 or even TL16)

Because the local gunsmith will accept local money whereas offworld gun
factories demand hard Imperial currency.

>e.g. if you are a megacorp. I would think that ALL your ships/equipment
>would be the highest TL you could get. if you are spending MCr. on a
>ship, you can spend a bit more to go to the high TL place and get your
>ship.

Lower TL credits are often worth less than higher TL credits. Sometimes
a lower TL ship is cheaper than a higher-TL one. It depends on a number
of factors.
 
>Question 2 :
>	(This is to those slugging at each other about piracy)
>What records are kept at each type of starport (assuming that the TL of
>each is the same, since this does not depend on the TL of the world)

It hasen't been defined. Those of us who have difficulty believing in
pirates think it is unreasonable to assume that they would be less
complete than those of present-day wet harbors, but there is no real
evidence one way or the other.
 
>How does the Imperium collect the tax, and keep records of taxation?

It is not established that the Imperium does collect taxes on ship
activities. There is some evindece to suggest that it MIGHT be the
case, but the evidence is not conclusive.
 
>Also the Imperium needs to keep records about the various nations, what
>are these?, are they per system/planet/nation? and how detailed?

Again, this has not been defined. IMTU the Imperium base its assements
on member planets on their economic strength, charging each world a
percentage of GWP.

>What taxes does the Imperium charge the member nations/planets

1% of GWP is the figure I incline to at the moment.

>What about megacorps that try to get away from taxes with hidden bases,
>how does the Imperium react if it finds them?

I don't think Megacorporations are taxed as such. The Emperor owns a
percentage of each corporation and gets dividends.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 23:01:23 -0400
From: "johannes" <johannes@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Ports & ship construction (CT) LONG

I'm thinking that the starport requirement should only apply to commercial
starship building, and that the government of any world with the appropriate
TL should be able to produce starships as a special engineering project (the
US space program comes to mind).  This would be relatively expensive (x1.5
sounds about right) since each component would have to be individually
designed and built, but it does give pocket empires the capability to
produce small military and exploration vessels.

John

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 20:20:14 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Martian Metals Miniatures

>>of work. Also, most important; is this LEGAL?
...
>It's questionable. Here's something to check out first: Back when Martian
>Metals was still in business, they licensed RAFM to produce the figs, with the
>proviso that they could not be sold in the US. Since MM is now gone, I'm not
>sure this holds, and RAFM may still have _their_ molds -- or at least their
>masters.

  I've communicated with RAFM over the last couple of months, and they 
apparently no longer have any 15mm molds and very few (samples only) figures.

>Ask RAFM if they could consider a limited run if outsiders pay all the
>costs...assuming the molds are still there. You'll get better quality figs
>than someone's home copies, and stranger things have happened.

  The worthwhile ones are the Citadel 15mm's, for which both the masters and
their ownership seem to be in the hands of GW. Apparently Hobby Products GmbH
is a licensee of GW USA.

  OC, the RAFM 25mm's are still available from some retailers/distributors.
The only other 25mm's are the old Grenadier product; it's unclear if the new
owner of the Grenadier line (Nemo/Stratelibri) has the Trav-25 molds, or if
the original license (with GDW/FFE/Mr. Miller?) still allows production.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 23:23:35 -0400
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Martian Metals Miniatures

Steven Hudson wrote:

> >Also, most important; is this LEGAL?

No.

>   Without the permission of the original company or the current holders of
> said rights it would be theft, AFAIK. Or piracy, if you'll pardon the
> expression.

Paritially correct.  Its not theft.  Theft is a state crime.It more akin to piracy,
although that term is usually reserved for different contexts.

What it is:

- - Copyright Infringement.  The copyright owner of the sculpted work would
win in a federal cival case against you.

- - Potentially, Criminal Copyright Infringement.  I don't think so, but I'd have to
double check.

- - Trademark Infringement.  The company that sold the product, and its subsequent
forms would win a federal trademark against you.  They may also win a state action,
depending on the states.

- - Counterfeiting.  Can be a federal crime in some cases.

BTW, even if you might win against such charges on various defense theories,
we're talking about US Federal Law here, which means a Federal Law lawyer,
which means a highre price.  Surely not worth it.

Don't do it.

Better:  make some new Cardboard Heroes (tm) - type figures.

Bloo
(T-29 days until Bar Exam)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 20:44:07 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Piracy and the late 3I

>From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
>Subject: Re: Piracy and the late 3I
...
>Bear in mind, having every planet below TL 9 or below population 8 get eaten by
>black holes would not significantly damage imperial security -- in fact, it
>might improve it.

  Yep. If, however, an L-Hyd supply gets left behind then the system is still
a strategic refuelling location, and thus a potential liability. OTOH, the
potentially very long cruising ranges of Trav ships will obviate the need for
bases like coaling stations or seaplane/recon airstrip facilities - Wake and
Midway Islands both come to mind.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 20:44:10 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: questions on TL

>From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
>Subject: Re: questions on TL
...
>A very old Traveller product (Striker) suggested that equipment of higher
>TL than produced locally needs double the amount of maintainence and costs
>20% of sticker cost each year in hard currency for spare parts. This makes
>a lot of sense to me.

  As someone else mentioned, what about the option of using lower TL kit?
Specifically, use high tech but reliable (i.e., well short of bleeding
edge) materials and techniques to construct a lower TL (but tested and
refined) design? This should produce a very nice mix of reliability and
economy at the expense of the uppermost performance levels (hmm, sounds a
bit like small personal aircraft nowadays?).

>They are going to range from grossly inadequate to exceedingly detailed -
>if I am going to send a megacredit worth of computer parts somewhere, I am
>going to be damn sure I can answer the question 'where is the cargo now'.

  Heck - if I ship 5K of stuff I'm going to want it insured, period. 
Insurance companies aren't into repeated significant losses, either.

...
>"The Imperial Marines have occupied the subsector headquarters of your
>company throughout Deneb Sector. Co-operation with the Ministry of Justice
>audit should obviate the need to indict your entire Sector Management Team".

  This reminds me (however vaguely) of a bit of background from one of
Cristopher Rowley's novels (his Vang/Starhammer universe) - an extremely
rich bad guy is threatened with being taken to court by the interstellar
government for _really_ annoying them. It doesn't matter if his legal team
keeps him out of jail - they can't keep him from being stuck in the same
city as the court for years or decades, and his influence on the world he
was on will wane without easy instantaneous commo and personal contact.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 21:41:15 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Martian Metals Miniatures

At 11:23 pm 7/1/98 -0400, you wrote:
>BTW, even if you might win against such charges on various defense
theories,
>we're talking about US Federal Law here, which means a Federal Law
lawyer,
>which means a highre price.  Surely not worth it.
>
>Don't do it.
>
>Better:  make some new Cardboard Heroes (tm) - type figures.

	Best -- get permission and do it legally ...
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 21:25:26 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Paper Trails and Pirates

>From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
>Subject: Re: Paper Trails and Pirates
...
>>One nice thing about such 'soft kills' is you get to quietly arrest the
>>crew of the ship, and then the cops are in an excellent position to extract
>>co-operation from those people. Beats duking it out in deep space.
>
>How do you know you have them all and the rest don't run with the ship?

  Presumably the arrests occur while the ship is nearby. If others choose
to try and escape from the port or orbit then the result likely won't be
worthy of being called a shoot-out.

>Well, "merchant pirates" don't have bases and the fence probably doesn't
>even know their real identitites.  (Though, yes there would be
>_some_ risk of fencing being able to rat on pirates.  That would
>make the crime risking buy not impossible like many crimes today).

  Actually, I don't know that a fence (typically a dishonest broker or
end user in this case?) would be able to tell pirated cargo from smuggled
goods. OC, they might studiously avoid confirming any suspicions.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 01:06:00 -0400
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: Martian Metal Minis for sale

At 10:30 AM 7/1/98 -0500, Seth wrote:
>That is a great idea; even if it means that several people on the list
have to
>kick in to pay for the minis.
>

Fine idea.  I'm not especially enamoured of the Martian Metals' line (I
liked the Citadel types MUCH better), but I AM committed to Traveller 15mm;
I'd contribute just to help maintain a presence in this scale.  

Concern:  Copyright boogyman...  Has anybody looked into this?  For all
that Martian Metals is OOB, does somebody own the rights to the figs?

Question:  Has anybody thought of what figures in 15mm are needed, beyond
those available from Tabletop Games, Irregular Miniatures, Peter Pig (I
think, IIRC), Stan Johansen (Space Opera figures), and Laserburn (or are
those also Tabletop Games, I wonder?), to establish a Traveller 15mm figure
line?  

A basic figure suite would seem, to me, to include (and this matches,
strangely enough, much of what Martian Metals produced...): Aslan; Vargr;
Droyne; Hiver; K'kree; Zhodani (at least in armor), and some miscellaneous
Aliens...  That ignores the typical Imperial types that are produced, more
or less, by the aforementioned manufacturers.

There are lots of 15mm figure makers out there - perhaps an ambitious soul
could approach one to see what it'd cost to get some masters made and
figures produced...  The scale of cost is nowhere near what it is, say, for
a plastic model; one can obtain masters from the likes of Joel Haas
(except, I've heard, he's not sculpting 15s anymore...) for about $75 or
so...  If a manufacturer thought he or she could sell a few of the things,
they might be willing to produce.  I'll be at Historicon 98 in a couple of
weeks - I'll ask around to get an idea of costs, if anybody's interested...







Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 01:30:21 EDT
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: FF&S-T4 Errata Found!

The list is on Chris Cox's Draconis Cluster page

>>http://users.aol.com/yanbeck/trav.htm<<

 The things I found today ARE indeed on the list, with clarifications.

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 01:35:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: neo@total.net (Glenn Grant)
Subject: Re: Technology Marches On

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> sez,
[snip]
>When cyber limb replacements are around that give the level of sensation
>and control that natural limbs do, with good reliability, I'm sure there
>are people who will consider getting them quite easily.
>
>Say you're (to suggest a hackneyed stereotype) 'Microelectronics
>technician' having an arm with interchangeable, highly controllable
>micromanipulators built-in, so to speak might be a natural thing to
>have.

>Mind you, exterior replacement arms with advanced feedback might come
>close, but having something directly wired into your nervous system
>would definitely give you an advantage.

Perhaps. Or maybe not. You'd need a serious motivation to replace a limb,
because it's going to take a long time to re-learn how to use it. One
problem often overlooked in discussions of bionics is that your brain has
developed as your body developed; if you lose a limb and replace it with a
prosthetic, you've got to re-learn all kinds of basic physical tasks from
scratch. Tet a new prosthetic arm, and you have to re-learn how to tie your
shoes, to drink from a cup, to eat with a knife and fork...

Worse, the adult brain isn't as flexible as a young brain, so it can take a
long while to re-learn those tasks, and you've no guarantee that you'll
*ever* regain complete mastery of the limb. You might just have to forget
that promising career as a concert pianist.

Then there's the interesting question as to whether the brain is even
equipped to accomodate a variety of "interchangeable, highly controllable
micromanipulators", or any other prosthetic that doesn't mimic the original
limb. Prosthetics can only be accomodated at all because the brain retains
a phantom limb, the neural image of the original, which 'inhabits' the
prosthetic. Patients who completely lack a phantom limb (as sometimes
happens) find it difficult, or impossible, to operate neural-interface
prosthetic limbs. So far as the brain is concerned, there's no limb there
to operate.

But then, why lop off the original limb? You could just install a neural
interface that suppresses impulses to and from the original limb,
substituting input and output from a remote device - a cargo-handling
robot, say, or the micromanipulators you mentioned. Or a ship's weapons
bay. Or a pair of extra arms strapped to your back (shades of Dr.
Octopus!).

Still, I'm not sure if this would work. Suppose you wire your nervous
system up to, say, a forklift; can you learn to operate it as if it were a
part of your body? I would say it's *possible*, because the brain *is*
incredibly flexible; but it would be a major challenge, involving months of
solid training, perhaps years. Somehow, your brain just might learn to
accomodate a robotic forklift as an integral part of your body-image.

But here's the kicker: what happens when you *unplug* the forklift? If
having a phantom limb is a painful annoyance, imagine having a phantom
forklift!

Fascinating, neh?

+ GMG +

    -----------------------Glenn Grant-----------------------  
                         <neo@total.net>
    Web: <http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/ggrant.html>
           "The future is simply amnesia in reverse."
                    -- Christopher Dewdney

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 22:53:16 -0700
From: Skoal <skoal@mail.gci-net.com>
Subject: T4 software

Hi

Could someone please give me a run down on T4 software on the net please..
Am also looking the web page that has or had the SSDS ( I think it was called)
It was a txt ot doc file that would tell ya how to build ships for T4..

So id anyone has a url or FTP with any or all info. on it
Please shot it over to me :)

Thanks

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 01:52:35 -0400
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: Martian Metals

At 12:58 PM 7/1/98 -0500, GypsyComet wrote:
...
> I had it straight from Steve Jackson (of SJG), once a close associate of
>Martian Metals, that MM did indeed burn, and that most or all of their molds
>and equipment were lost. Among the lamented dead are the only miniatures for
>Rivets or Chitin-1 ever produced...
>

IIRC, they were SERIOUSLY underinsured...



Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 02:15:52 -0400
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: Martian Metals Minis

At 10:28 PM 7/1/98 -0500, Loren wrote:

>It's questionable. Here's something to check out first: Back when Martian
>Metals was still in business, they licensed RAFM to produce the figs, with
the
>proviso that they could not be sold in the US. Since MM is now gone, I'm not
>sure this holds, and RAFM may still have _their_ molds -- or at least their
>masters.
>
>Ask RAFM if they could consider a limited run if outsiders pay all the
>costs...assuming the molds are still there. You'll get better quality figs
>than someone's home copies, and stranger things have happened. 
>

IMHO, unlikely, as they profess to have "lost/discarded" their Citadel 15mm
Traveller molds some years ago...



Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 23:47:57 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Technology Marches On

Wed, 01 Jul 1998 16:03:55 -0700, Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
>>Granted that
>> electronic limbs offer
>> some advantages, but if that were so great, why not just have your limbs
>> cut off and replaced premptively. Most people wouldn't see that as a great
>> idea.

>Granted, this isn't the same as whacking off your arm and replacing it
>with a cyber implant, but it's a clear indication of where people draw
>the acceptability line.

Well, let's not get into this "whacking off your arm".  It is misleading
to think that way (and leads toward things like that stupid cyberpsychosis).

I do think that not everyone will want cyber limbs.  Not because of
any aversion, but because, in a technological society, things like
body strength are that crucial.

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 23:40:11 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: questions on TL

Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au> wrote

> >What taxes does the Imperium charge the member nations/planets
> >What about megacorps that try to get away from taxes with hidden 
> >bases, how does the Imperium react if it finds them?

> "Given His Magesty's displeasure at your actions in Deneb, I believe 
> that as a shareholder he intends to have a no-confidence motion moved 
> against you in the next AGM"

If the corporation in question was headquartered on Capital then The
Emperor could show up at the meeting in person....

If the Emperor shows up in person & makes a no confidence motion it
would be darn close to laissez majeste (sp?) for the other shareholders
to disagree.  As an effective means of making a point it has few
equals.  If the Emperor is accompanied by say a few companies of Battle
Dress euipted "bodyguards" I think _everyone_ will get the message.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 00:31:45 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Megacorps - & - OOps

>Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 14:33:08 -0700
>From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
>Subject: Re: Re MegaCorps
>
>William F. Hostman wrote:
>>
>> Oberlindes lines extended at least as far as the far side of the domain of
>> Vland; Margaret's Spouse was an Oberlindes Nobleman, whoo happened to bring
>> with some corporate assets (MT RebSB).
>
>I thought she was married to Blaine Tukera. In fact I'me positive of
>this because her faction is listed as having the Vermene as their intel
>arm, and the basis of her 'keep the trains running' outlook.


mea culpa. I re-read it yesterday... OOPS! <Blush> Gotta wake up before
reading e-mail.

However, what do you call a vastly diversified, multi-sector commercial entity?

I'd call it a mega-corp. Even if it isn't multi-domain.

IMTU, a mega-corp is ANY imperially liscenced, massively divesified
commercial entity, characterized by massively parallel vertical production.
(Thanks to P Newman for terminology.)

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 00:57:38 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Imperial Income & Piracy

>>
>>Question 2 :
>>	(This is to those slugging at each other about piracy)
>>What records are kept at each type of starport (assuming that the TL of
>>each is the same, since this does not depend on the TL of the world)
>
>Records are going to be kept by the starport authorities, by the ship
>itself, by the freight, passenger and cargo brokers and possibly by the
>Imperial authorities as well.
>
>They are going to range from grossly inadequate to exceedingly detailed -
>if I am going to send a megacredit worth of computer parts somewhere, I am
>going to be damn sure I can answer the question 'where is the cargo now'.
>
>The fact that holding such records makes piracy insanely difficult is
>merely a nice side benefit. It is going to happen because people need to
>know what is happening with their business and when. It also helps stop
>merchants just disappearing with the goods ... after all, with no records,
>what stops you claiming the freight you are carrying is actually your own
>speculative cargo ?

It also just so happens that "Knowing where the coargo is *NOW* is
IMPOSSIBLE prior to [checking books] TL 19+ with the advent of Portal
Technology. in the OTU, there is no non-courier FTL commo. the 7 day lag
factor becomes increasingly difficult past 3 jumps.


>>
>>How does the Imperium collect the tax, and keep records of taxation?
>
>The Imperium may tax commerce going thru starports, it may invoice worlds
>directly, it may own chunks of all Imperial corporations (including by
>definitition all megacorps) or it may do a combination of the above.
>
>>
>>Also the Imperium needs to keep records about the various nations, what
>>are these?, are they per system/planet/nation? and how detailed?
>
>Yes. This is a major function of the Internal Mapping Branch of the IISS.
>
>>What taxes does the Imperium charge the member nations/planets
>>What about megacorps that try to get away from taxes with hidden bases,
>>how does the Imperium react if it finds them?
>>	(no no no I don't care if this is possible or if the paper trail
>>is too big, I want them so they stay!)

IMTU, that's what the nobility is all about, and why they are so prevalent.
I figure a per-capita charged to the GOVERNMENT, overseen by the local
nobleman, who has to budget for the local IISS X-net office, IMOJ office,
etc, plus oversee the extrality zone, and the imperial legation office.
Imperial taxes come from per-capita, services fees, and subordinate nobles,
as well as any extrality zone fees past budget needs. Thsu the tracking of
traffic is dependant upon both the noble and the local system and the hired
help.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #624
**********************************

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Traveller-digest       Thursday, July 2 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 625



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

[none]
Re Galactic Port to Mac
Re: Armed merchants
Re: Ports & ship construction (CT)
Re: Martian Metal Minis for sale
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #624
Re: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)
Re: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)
Re:Appearance of Jump Space
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #622
Re: Imperial Tax Practices
Re: Re MegaCorps
Re: questions on TL
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #624
Re: T4 software
Fifth Frontier War
Left over story lines
25mm Sci-Fi figures
Re: Martian Metals Minis
IN Sting Operations (was re: Traveller Digest)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 01:13:22 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: [none]

>"This is an Imperial Warrant. Thank you for your kind donation of forty
>gigacredits to the Imperial Treasury".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
>
[snip]
>
>Assuming a Megacorp used some tact and at least maintained the facade
>of obeying Imperial Law (such as GSbAG running Psi-Drug factories, but
>being nice enough to run them outside the boundries of the Imperium),
>the Emperor might be leery of moving against them for "minor
>misunderstandings". I don't have a good feel for the economic might
>represented by these Megacorps, but it might rival that of many
>Sectors - such power is a much better ally than enemy, and demanding
>a 40 GigaCredit fine (sorry, "contribution") might make them a lot less
>friendly.
>

It wouldn't be the Mega-corp with 40 TCr, but a local subsidiary  hit with
BCr1-2. Besides, anything which the Big 13 do to make money makes money for
the imperial house, as that's who the shares go to... so the stock holdings
are part of the regalia of office, not the government per se. I figure that
the Government also gets a cut... say a flat 5% profits tax.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 01:22:52 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re Galactic Port to Mac

>> I'm in the process of porting Jim Vassilakos Galactic program to run
>> on a Mac (using MacPerl) and on Unix (using Perl and Tk). The Unix
>> version is coming along nicely; the Mac version a bit more slowly.
>
>I volunteer to test it on Unix.
>
>Keven

I volunteer for Mac 68K and PPC... have one and mom has other...

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 02:53:57 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Armed merchants

Hello,
>Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 04:33:39 +0200 (METDST)
>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
>Subject: Re: Armed merchants
...
>Ah, but that is one of the things you don't get to drop. The level of
>piracy is a matter of canon. Remember, the whole thread originally
>arose because I claimed that piracy as portrayed in the CT canon did
>not make sense. If you have to change the frequency of pirates from that
>portrayed in CT sources in order to make piracy possible, then it does
>not make sense as originally portrayed, now does it?

  Wait a second . I've been supporting the "opportunistic pirate" for
some time, and I'll continue to do so until I'm convinced one way or
another as to its' viability, but at the same time I can't see why I
should conform to the "wandering monster table" approach to actual
pirate attack frequency. Wouldn't it be better to have the basis be to
explain a threat level and nature such that a CT trader would have two
turrets of weapons (because they're sure as hell not going to slow up
a Shiva class or equivalent raider or stop even a few det-lasers from
gutting the freighter)?

>I would much prefer not to argue these subthreads one by one and instead
>deal with a complete concept, but I can't until you (or some other pro-
>piracy advocate) comes up with one.

  That, sir, sounds like a challenge :>

        Yours truly,
                Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 03:25:14 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Ports & ship construction (CT)

>Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 22:38:46 EDT
>From: DustyLV769@aol.com
>Subject: Ports & ship construction (CT)
...

>On a related note, does anyone have any idea what the average yard capacity
>(for shipbuilding purposes) a class A or B port would have?  I am running into
>the problem that in my subsector, there are 2 worlds ( TL's D and C) with
>populations of 9.  This gives them an enormous advantage over even the higher-
>tech worlds, simply because of thier naval budget (using TCS).  It's kinda

  Same hassle as running TCS in the Islands Cluster, except there the highest
TL's and pops and separate, and TL D vs A allows for being outnumbered ten to
one or so. OTOH, TCS Cr 500 budget is screwy (use Striker [I]), and they also
base yard capacity on population anyway.

  My suggestion would be to make the budget formula non-linear past a certain
point (500 million or 1 billion people [1x10^9] or whatever amuses you) and
then use a formula past that point to slow growth - representing a decrease
in per capita machinery, resources, and overall durable goods production.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 03:25:47 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Martian Metal Minis for sale

>Subject: Re: Martian Metal Minis for sale
...
>Question:  Has anybody thought of what figures in 15mm are needed, beyond
>those available from Tabletop Games, Irregular Miniatures, Peter Pig (I
...
  Is it Peter Pig who makes the "Command Decision" 15's? Those are decent
enough, and the 251's can be converted to ACV or grav suspensions easily
enough (as Scotia did for some of their micro-SF lines, apparently). I've
also got a few very nice 15's from "Quality Castings Inc".

...
>a plastic model; one can obtain masters from the likes of Joel Haas
>(except, I've heard, he's not sculpting 15s anymore...) for about $75 or

  $75 US for each master, yes? Citadel had well over a hundred figures in
their product line; it gets a bit rich for an amateur project. As much as
I might detest Pudding Workshop, they do seem to have the advantage here.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 17:04:35
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #624

>From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
>Subject: Re: questions on TL
>
>  As someone else mentioned, what about the option of using lower TL kit?
>Specifically, use high tech but reliable (i.e., well short of bleeding
>edge) materials and techniques to construct a lower TL (but tested and
>refined) design? This should produce a very nice mix of reliability and
>economy at the expense of the uppermost performance levels (hmm, sounds a
>bit like small personal aircraft nowadays?).
>

I agree, but I dont want to do this - I want lower tech worlds to have some
sort of manufacturing role, and not be overwhelmed in every niche by higher
technology worlds.

It mightnt be that realistic, but I think it can be finessed.

>Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 23:40:11 -0800
>From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
>Subject: Re: questions on TL
>
>Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au> wrote
>
>> "Given His Magesty's displeasure at your actions in Deneb, I believe 
>> that as a shareholder he intends to have a no-confidence motion moved 
>> against you in the next AGM"
>
>If the corporation in question was headquartered on Capital then The
>Emperor could show up at the meeting in person....
>
>If the Emperor shows up in person & makes a no confidence motion it
>would be darn close to laissez majeste (sp?) for the other shareholders
>to disagree.  As an effective means of making a point it has few
>equals.  If the Emperor is accompanied by say a few companies of Battle
>Dress euipted "bodyguards" I think _everyone_ will get the message.
>

I phrased the threat fairly carefully ... the flunky is saying 'Fix the
problem, or the boss might find out'. The Emperor probably hasnt personally
dealt with the matter - all the flunky is saying is *she* believes that
this is being planned. And, as a fraud investigator at work recently said
'And if he said it was true, he must have believed it to be true at the time'.

I think it would be a gross violation of protocol to front to an AGM as a
shareholder with armed bodyguards, btw. I'm sure they will get the hint
easily enough.

>Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 00:57:38 -0800
>From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
>Subject: Re: Imperial Income & Piracy
>
>>The fact that holding such records makes piracy insanely difficult is
>>merely a nice side benefit. It is going to happen because people need to
>>know what is happening with their business and when. It also helps stop
>>merchants just disappearing with the goods ... after all, with no records,
>>what stops you claiming the freight you are carrying is actually your own
>>speculative cargo ?
>
>It also just so happens that "Knowing where the coargo is *NOW* is
>IMPOSSIBLE prior to [checking books] TL 19+ with the advent of Portal
>Technology. in the OTU, there is no non-courier FTL commo. the 7 day lag
>factor becomes increasingly difficult past 3 jumps.

I shouldnt have used 'is' I should have used 'should be'.

Your on-planet factor and/or the flunky you sent to babysit the cargo sends
you a postcard from each port on a pre-planned route.

A variant involves setting up the message tree via Xboats while the cargo
itself goes by slower freighters.

You can tell where it should be now, within fairly tight limits. You can
definitly tell where and when it went missing, unless it's an inside job
with faked reports. Which isnt really piracy, although it is cheaper,
easier and more profitable.

>
>>>What about megacorps that try to get away from taxes with hidden bases,
>>>how does the Imperium react if it finds them?
>>>	(no no no I don't care if this is possible or if the paper trail
>>>is too big, I want them so they stay!)
>
>IMTU, that's what the nobility is all about, and why they are so prevalent.
>I figure a per-capita charged to the GOVERNMENT, overseen by the local
>nobleman, who has to budget for the local IISS X-net office, IMOJ office,
>etc, plus oversee the extrality zone, and the imperial legation office.
>Imperial taxes come from per-capita, services fees, and subordinate nobles,
>as well as any extrality zone fees past budget needs. Thsu the tracking of
>traffic is dependant upon both the noble and the local system and the hired
>help.

This works, although I would do it as a percentage of GDP rather than as
per capita, otherwise poor worlds will be unable to afford their taxes.

I think the Imperium has a long-term cycle of 'use Nobles because they are
reliable, honourable and uncorruptable' to 'use bureaucrats because they
know the job better' back to 'use Nobles'. A compromise is to have
bureaucrats who are also noble.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 13:26:13 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)

On Tue, 30 Jun 1998, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > So you are saying that a supernova would almost wipe out more than a
> > sector? 
> 
> Not sure he's actually saying that, but its true.  However, the warning would
> be quite long (could actually be an interesting scenario -- a supernova occurs
> at location X, it arrives at these worlds in these times, organize the
> evacuation).  Hm..wonder what the lethal distance for a supernova is?  Does
> anyone actually know?  I'd guess your typical supernova (say, 100 billion solar
> luminosities) would cause drastic climate effects out to a couple of parsecs,
> and throw out enough hard radiation to kill surface life out to some ten
> parsecs, but that's just a wild ballpark guess, anyone have real numbers?

Reminds me of the Maghiz. The Darrians did not quite blow up Tarnis, but
activeted it a way too much - but the effects spread through the whole
Darrian subsector. It would be interesting how that's been compared to
hard numbers ... anyone?

L.A.

My god, it had been full of stars ...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 13:27:16 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: Supernovas (was Re: When Worlds Collide)

On Tue, 30 Jun 1998, Matthew Harelick wrote:

> Wouldn't Imperial technology have some kind of warning system about
> when a star might SuperNova?

Supposedly not. But the Darrians might have one.

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 13:36:08 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re:Appearance of Jump Space

On Tue, 30 Jun 1998, David P. Summers wrote:

> >>I go with the "jump space is just featureless black" and if anything
> >>gets too far from the hull, it doesn't come back. That includes
> >>photons. So the "effective temperature" of jump space is absolute
> >>zero. Making your radiators somewhat *more* efficient than in normal
> >>space (where the parts of the sky that don't contain stars are at an
> >>effective temp of 3 Kelvin).
> 
> >I go with jump space being featureless as well..the true definition of
> >nothingness.  However, I still use the description of shifting,
> >swirling colors.
> 
> I tell my players; "Close your eyes.  That is what it looks
> like except without all the blackness."

I think we had this discussion earlier on this list. But its up to
everyone to make his own appearences. I adapted the idea of jump spcae
looking like a silverish, liquid bubble around the ship (inspired by
StarGate). Perhaps this looks also different on Aslan/Vargr/etc
Jump Drives ... or depends on the Megacorp that built it ...

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 17:48:45
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #622

>From: Alan Peery <peery@io.com>
>Subject: Re: Small scale colonisation in Traveller
>
>On Thu, 2 Jul 1998, Ian or Katts wrote:
>
>> PS I love the fan mail on it, 
>
>Consider this one more... :-)
>

*grin* thanks

>> but does anyone have any suggestions on
>> things in it that dont quite work ?
>
>OK, but remember this is from someone who hasn't looked at Pocket
>Empires.  
>
>The settlement results seem to imply that every place on the world's
>surface is equally hospitable in that there is no "all the good land
>it taken" multipliers.  If we are the first people to settle a planet,
>we should be able to choose a location with *all* the right
>attributes, if they exist anywhere on the world.  In essence, we're
>guaranteed a good harbor, plentiful water etc.  It seems that this
>factor should be significant, probably changing an annual growth rate
>of 3% into an annual growth rate of 6%. (Neglecting external
>investment.)
>
>Of course, this has to be a decreasing function as the planet gains
>more population.
>

The population growth rules in PE are one of the most wonderfully elegant
game mechanics I have seen.

Essentially, you add up the tech level, infrasturucture and resources of a
world  (essentially how nice a place to live it is), add the roll of a
dice, divide by the current population code minus one and then look up that
number of a table. You then multiply by a starport factor (good starports
exaggerate the effect up or down, poor starports diminishes it), and thats
your population growth factor.

It's one of the rules that make PE the great product it is. I'm proud to
have built on it.

>From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
>Subject: Transponders and starport beacon logs
>
>Diary of Sunbeard the Pirate
>
>200-1017
>Dear Diary,
>
>Went to Louie's place on Treece last week and traded my old T5 transponder 
>plug-on for one with three slots... one E/P slot just isn't enough for me.
>Just yesterday I found a guy ('Lefty') with some stolen registry tapes, and 
>bought a couple hundred ship codes off him.  That should keep me going for 
>awhile.
>
>Since Treece is off the X-Boat route, and Inthe is clamping down on
>expenditures to make its starport upgrade payments, the Courier's
>schedule is a bit spotty.  Also, few of these tramp liners bother to
>enter their manifest with the starport authority... heck, lots don't
>even file flight plans.  Why bother?  A misjump is a 50-50 chance of
>death anyhow; why give away your coords to the repo man?  So an
>occasional, accidental wipe of the records isn't going to be noticed
>much... I'll bet there are several different official transponder
>log collectors covering Treece -- say, a dozen organizations, mega-
>corps, and banks (and don't forget the Scouts and Navy) for Regina,
>Inthe, and Rhylanor, who occasionally whip by and grab whatever logs
>are here.  There's way too much human element to keep track of all
>visitors.  Oh, and don't forget people like Lefty, who is smart
>enough to break into the beacon and force a purge.
>
>Anyway, Treece gets no real traffic per week: just last week I see
>there were 4 ships who registered... a 600t liner, a far trader,
>and a couple of scouts... I know of a couple others who were here
>but didn't register.
>
>Hey, lookie here.  Says here that Treece's starport (really just
>a few outbuildings and a 400-ton fuel depot) cost under 50 million
>credits.  That's pretty cheap.  A wealthy individual could build
>himself one, if he had a reason to.
>
>Well, I'm off to pillage a small trading post in the local asteroid
>belt.  Wish me luck!

Diary of Lieutenant Shovac Mitisky, MCG and Bar

'204-1017 Operation Ratcatcher is going well. I sold the codes to a person
who remained nameless. His particulars as I recollected them are attached
as Attachment A. The list is being forwarded to the relevant authorities -
in about six months we'll run through the records to see if any of them
have been used, and keep doing it at four month increments.

Attachment B is a list of all ships who docked at Treece Down, together
with identifying features.

Please give my regards to Bubbles'

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 12:42:31 +0100 (BST)
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Imperial Tax Practices

Hans says :-

>[*] I am a bit worried about the population increases in RS. If those
>    increases are representative of the whole Imperial era, the whole
>    history of the Traveller Universe is in trouble.

But do we not have to take into account the flow of people into the
Regency after 1130 ? from all sides, Varga, Alsan, Human, running from the
virus.

Ewan

	Ewan Quibell
	Data Communications Technician        The Game's afoot:
	Computer Centre                       Follow your spirit, and apon
	University of Brighton                  this charge
                                              Cry 'God for Harry, England,
	E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              and Saint George !'

                                                    Henry V 3:1
	#include<stddisclamer.h>                    W. Shakespeare

	My spelling is entierly due to dyslexia, typoes and poetic license

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 13:43:41 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: Re MegaCorps

On Tue, 30 Jun 1998, Jimmy Simpson wrote:

> Akerut, on the other hand, is a wholly owned subsidiary of Tukera in the
> Aramis subsector (the Akerut name is just a [can't remember term]
> rearrangement of the Tukera name).  Tukera services only the major trade

[] = Anagram

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 08:31:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael and MJ Houghton <herveus@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: questions on TL

Howdy!

Peter Newman wrote:
> Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au> wrote
> 
> > >What taxes does the Imperium charge the member nations/planets
> > >What about megacorps that try to get away from taxes with hidden 
> > >bases, how does the Imperium react if it finds them?
> 
> > "Given His Magesty's displeasure at your actions in Deneb, I believe 
> > that as a shareholder he intends to have a no-confidence motion moved 
> > against you in the next AGM"
> 
> If the corporation in question was headquartered on Capital then The
> Emperor could show up at the meeting in person....
> 
> If the Emperor shows up in person & makes a no confidence motion it
> would be darn close to laissez majeste (sp?) for the other shareholders
                   lese  ^^^^^^
> to disagree.  As an effective means of making a point it has few
> equals.  If the Emperor is accompanied by say a few companies of Battle
> Dress euipted "bodyguards" I think _everyone_ will get the message.
> 
...worse...the Emperor takes a road trip...

"Howdy! I was in the neighborhood and though I'd drop by..." :)

yours,
Michael

- -- 
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@access.digex.net  | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
                          | http://www.access.digex.net/~herveus/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 08:35:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rob Dean <robdean@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #624

Steve Hudson writes:

>   OC, the RAFM 25mm's are still available from some retailers/distributors.
> The only other 25mm's are the old Grenadier product; it's unclear if the new
> owner of the Grenadier line (Nemo/Stratelibri) has the Trav-25 molds, or if
> the original license (with GDW/FFE/Mr. Miller?) still allows production.
> 
>         Steven Hudson

I'd really like to see the Grenadier Traveller figures produced again--I
don't have the Alien Mercenary set. (Anyone got one? I'll pay collector
prices for it...)

If you want to play with 25mm figures, though, you should check out the
web catalog for Ground Zero Games.  They have a line of combat troops
who look reasonable Traveller-esque, and they are expanding into civilians,
ship crew and bystanders who also look good.  Obviously there are no Traveller
specific aliens, but look at their UN Space Marines--they look an awful lot
like my Grenadier Traveller Imperial Marines.

Bill Rutherford writes:

> Question:  Has anybody thought of what figures in 15mm are needed, beyond
> those available from Tabletop Games, Irregular Miniatures, Peter Pig (I
> think, IIRC), Stan Johansen (Space Opera figures), and Laserburn (or are
> those also Tabletop Games, I wonder?), to establish a Traveller 15mm figure
> line?  

Laserburn are TTG--though I think that the figures were once produced in
the US by Ral Partha.

> There are lots of 15mm figure makers out there - perhaps an ambitious soul
> could approach one to see what it'd cost to get some masters made and
> figures produced...  The scale of cost is nowhere near what it is, say, for
> a plastic model; one can obtain masters from the likes of Joel Haas
> (except, I've heard, he's not sculpting 15s anymore...) for about $75 or
> so...

15mm would be good for skirmish wargaming, but I would prefer 25mm for 
roleplaying when figures are used. 

I haven't been doing much with Traveller lately, although I have been painting
some 25mm miniatures I've had for a while with the intention of doing a bit
of science fiction gaming to vary my usual historical habit. I am intending
to use Ground Zero Games Stargrunt II rules with the 25mm figures. They are
intended to be generic, and I think that adapting them for Traveller is going
to be pretty simple. (They'd work for 2300AD with no mods at all...)

Rob Dean
robdean@access.digex.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 07:58:06 -0500
From: "Pearson Publishing" <jdpearson@wr.net>
Subject: Re: T4 software

> Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 22:53:16 -0700
> From: Skoal <skoal@mail.gci-net.com>
> Subject: T4 software
> 
> Hi
> 
> Could someone please give me a run down on T4 software on the net please..
> Am also looking the web page that has or had the SSDS ( I think it was
> called) It was a txt ot doc file that would tell ya how to build ships for
> T4..

You can find the QSDS, SSDS & the VDS (vehicle design system) at Ethan 
Henry's page http://www.magmacom.com/~ehenry/traveller/

There's a lot of software on the web for all versions of traveller.  The best 
possible way to start might be with the Traveller Webwring.  Check out:  
http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=traveller&index

> So id anyone has a url or FTP with any or all info. on it
> Please shot it over to me :)

http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/traveller/archive/
for a good source of a bunch of traveller stuff.


> Thanks
> 


 -- James Pearson
"The purpose of a referee is to present obstacles 
for players to overcome as they go about seeking 
their goals, not to constantly make trouble for them.
This is a very subtle distinction ..."

The Traveller Book, p. 12

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/4089

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 06:04:05 PDT
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Fifth Frontier War

Hi all.  

Does anyone have an essay or a write up of the Fifth Frontier War?  I'd 
like to find a synopsis, if one is available...

Cheers,

Greg Smith
The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 09:25:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mathew Harelick <matth@CYBERNEX.NET>
Subject: Left over story lines

Hi: 

So what is the Empress Wave? 


Matthew S. Harelick
http://www2.cybernex.net/~matth
matth@cybernex.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 09:41:19 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: 25mm Sci-Fi figures

I found some astounding science fiction miniatures at a convention once
from a (European?) company called Metal Magic. Very nicely sculpted,
reminded me of some of the better artwork from Heavy Metal magazine.
Does anyone know if this company is still in business?

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 10:37:31 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Martian Metals Minis

In a message dated 7/1/98 23:27:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
worj@topgun.cinecom.com writes:

<< Ask RAFM if they could consider a limited run if outsiders pay all the
 >costs...assuming the molds are still there. You'll get better quality figs
 >than someone's home copies, and stranger things have happened. 
 >
 
 IMHO, unlikely, as they profess to have "lost/discarded" their Citadel 15mm
 Traveller molds some years ago...
 
  >>

Maybe the best "legal " way to go is to contract w/ someone to make a whole
complete line of NEW Trav miniatures...can't be all that much more expensive
than trying to secure  old molds that either no longer exist or someone holds
aleady.   Any craftsman (Artisans?) out there?

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 10:37:35 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: IN Sting Operations (was re: Traveller Digest)

Ian Whitchurch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Diary of Lieutenant Shovac Mitisky, MCG and Bar

'204-1017 Operation Ratcatcher is going well. I sold the codes to a person
who remained nameless. His particulars as I recollected them are attached
as Attachment A. The list is being forwarded to the relevant authorities -
in about six months we'll run through the records to see if any of them
have been used, and keep doing it at four month increments.

Attachment B is a list of all ships who docked at Treece Down, together
with identifying features.

Please give my regards to Bubbles'
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There are some days it just plain sucks to be a bad guy. Getting caught
in a sting operation is just one of them.

Whatever enterprising IN agent comes up with this one had better be
patient, and have a streetwise roll good enough to make it more profitable
for him to be a bad guy himself. (Duty and honor are very, very good things
to instill in your intelligence agents...how many CIA agents became
drug smugglers or freelance operatives doing bad things?)

He has to get a rack of transponder codes, for the express purpose of
releasing them into the wilds. Granted, he intends to have all of them
on a hot sheet - but whatever governing body is in charge of transponder
codes (assuming there is one) will want him to do anything else.
The average ship (or even sub-C class starport) will have to take a
transponder at face value. While there may be so many fraudulent
transponders out there that this is unwise, whoever is in charge of
transponders isn't about to admit it and allow a bunch of extra codes
to float around out there.

He has to find "Lefty". Just sitting around in starport bars and whispering
"hey buddy, wanna buy some new transponder codes?" will only get
him in touch with player characters. <g>

Oh, and I will give you that a starport (class E or so) that doesn't
forward traffic records (marked spots of bedrock may have limited
administration facilities) might be suspected as a pirate stop, and
might have an IN agent hanging around recording info for the next
courier that might (or might not) show up next week. He'll probably 
be a low-level agent ready to try *anything* to get promoted out
of this job...which might lead him to try the sting we're talking about,
even though the following is more likely to occur...

Lt. Mitisky sells his rack of bogus codes to "Lefty" in a starport bar.
What happens to them next?

"Lefty" goes and sells 90% of these codes at a discount to an
employee at a shipyard who wants to get a bunch of codes for
a tenth the usual price and pocket the difference, probably without
knowledge of the rest of the company. Instead of having to deal with
several dozen dangerous pirates, Lefty only has to deal with one
greedy clerk. Lefty thinks this is safer, though he will sell a few to
his special "Free Trader" friends. 
The codes go to ships built by legitimate small trade companies
and individual merchants, and as far as these individuals know everything
is legal and up front. They probably even have legitimate paperwork.
Two subsectors (or sectors) away, an Imperial Patrol Cruiser reads
their transponder, sees it on the hot sheet, and impounds them
until this can be figured out - which is long enough to put a small trader
crew out of business. The bank (owners of the ship) lose their property
to Imperial Seizure. The crew either goes to jail, or at least have no ship
and a several MCr debt with no ship to pay it off with. Mr. shady shipyard
employee scampered a long time ago with his several MCr take, leaving
the rest of the company to take the blame, the charges and the lawsuits.
The shipbuilding business on the planet is ruined, and the local noble
(seeing a massive loss in tax revenue) blames it all on our intrepid
Lt. Mitisky dumping those transponder codes onto the black market
in the first place. The sector office of the Imperial Navy hunts around for
a scapegoat, and Lt. Mitisky spends the rest of his career piloting a
one-man scout on the Zhodani border.

Not saying that some enterprising, promotion-hungry intelligence agent
won't try this - say, with a rack of codes that belong to impounded or
IN-destroyed ships - but stings like this can blow up in your face pretty
easily on Earth - not to mention how they could go wrong in a society
plagued by multi-week communication delays.

Of course, the adventure seed here is the players find out the code of thier
brand new starship is on a hot list - they have the fun of dodging Impie
navy vessels until they can get back to where they bought it, and find
the greedy bum who screwed them over. Maybe they even get to take it
a step or two farther, and hang the blame on our daring Lt. Mitisky... <g>

Walt Smith

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #625
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Thursday, July 2 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 626



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: TravSuite released as Shareware
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #625
Re: Technology Marches On/Martian Metals
Martian Metals Miniatures ; Summary and CFV
Traveller bibilography
Re: Martian Metals Minis
Re: Technology Marches On
Re: Technology Marches On/Martian Metals
Sunbeard the Pirate's TU
A Corsair's Tale (long)
Re: Ports and ship construction (CT)
Re: Technology Marches On/Martian Metals
Re: Ports and ship construction (CT) 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 10:51:07 -0400 
From: Daniel Mendyke <Daniel.Mendyke@digital.com>
Subject: Re: TravSuite released as Shareware

>In Autumn of '96 Imperium Games approached me and asked me to produce the
>official software for Marc Miller's Traveller. On January 1st, 1997 this

>    A period of grace of six months has passed and I am now making it
>available again as freeware. The product is available for upload from
>"http://members.nova.org/~sol/core/travrel1.zip". This is the same product


I downloaded this software to try it out.
It looks great.  The map generator looked
the most useful although when I tried
saving the map the software crashed and
brought down my OS (no surprise there I'm
running NT)

Does anyone know of a working map generator
for Traveller?  Not a sector generator but
an application to help create planet maps.

- -Daniel

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 08:08:53 PDT
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #625

Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE> wrote:
>On Tue, 30 Jun 1998, Matthew Harelick wrote:
>
>> Wouldn't Imperial technology have some kind of warning system about
>> when a star might SuperNova?
>
>Supposedly not. But the Darrians might have one.
>
>L.A.
>

I think the Darrians called that the OhNoMeter...
Greg Smith
The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 10:08:02 -0500 
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: Re: Technology Marches On/Martian Metals

Regarding my posting of technology news breaks...

ringrose@ascent.com very nicely requested I include something related
to Traveller rather than just posting the info. Good point, I'll try to do
that
in the future. The two reasons I post such items to the TML is to:

 1) hopefully open the floor for discussion and start a thread
which people can learn actual science from...which is exactly what
happened...and
2) hopefully make/keep someone (anyone) out there aware that although
Traveller may be "just a game" (yeah, right), we all are actually
*living* part of the technology _right now_! Traveller can be an incredible
teaching tool.

Example:  I always wondered how a high-TL world-wide communications
network that starships routinely access at a Class A/B starport could
come into being when the cost would almost always be prohibitive. Well,
you all happen to be reading this post on such a network. A network that
wasn't built by any government, megacorporation, or multi-billionaire.
Pretty cool, huh?

The fact that some TMLers actually are members of the scientific
community just tickles me to death. You all have posted some really
great stuff in the past which has allowed me to compile some wonderful
technical/background briefs for my TU. It's also helped learn alot about
physics an technology. Thank You!!!

As for the Traveller 15mm minis, I believe the manufacturer's address is
as follows:

Hobby Products GmbH
Postfach/P.O.Box 101020 46010 Oberhausen Germany.
Tel.: +49(208)70011

They have a website at:

http://www.luding.com/company/c0361t.html

I couldn't get into their website (connection refused...well!) and someone
familiar with German addressing standards may want to repost the
address the way it should be written.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 11:37:40 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Martian Metals Miniatures ; Summary and CFV

Dave Said;
>I very deliberately didn't identify the person in mind for two
>reasons. (1) My memory is failing and I'm not 100% certain who I
>remember; (2) I don't even know if the person is interested, and
>didn't want to expose him/her to the concerted whinings of the entire
>list aimed in his/her direction; (3) there may be others beyond the
>one I remember!

Well, I'm not quite sure who you mean, the person who offered the figures
or the first to respond to your idea of reproducing them from the
collectively purchased figures.  I think I was first to offer to pay for
such figures.  I can't be *the* organizer, but herein I'll try to get a
ball of sorts in a moving state.


Here's a summary of posts on this subject;

Citadel Produced some excellent 15mm figures, which seem to be owned by
Games Workshop.  Hobby Products GmbH is a licensee and may also (or
instead) have Traveller Molds

RAFM Produced Good figures, but do not have the molds anymore.

Grenadier (Now Nemo/Stratelibri) Produced 25mm figures, and may or may not
have the molds.

This is a call for volunteers.  Someone needs to contact these people.

It would be preferable if the contacting person had a prior relationship
with someone at the company.  One volunteer for each company please;

Games Workshop;
Phone Number: 1-800-492-8820
Fax: (410) 590-1444
Mail: 6721 Baymeadow Drive, Glen Burnie, MD 21060-6401
Email: Custserv@games-workshop.com


Grenadier is, indeed, out of business, but one article I found on the web
mentioned that 95% of their molds went to Italy to Stratelibri.  Now, I
don't speak Italian, and a call there would be relatively expensive
(especially if I had trouble communicating).  If some enterprising soul who
is at least in europe and has some command of Italian wants to contact
them, please do.

Stratelibri SRL
Via Paisiello, 4
20131 - Milano
ITALY
0039 2 29510317 (Phone)
0039 2 29510578 (Fax)


As far as copyrights goes;  We are contacting the company with the molds
first.  If this is unsuccessful we can attempt to reproduce molds from
figures, at which point the company and/or artist may need to be involved
and get a license fee.  In either case Marc will need a fee (and his fees
are reasonable - if he gives the same deal as I've seen for such ventures)
and those costs can be rolled in.

In other words, we'll cross that river when it bars our way.

I think that reproducing molds may not be easy enough for this type of
venture.  Convincing a company to put out a limited run with
already-committed customers seems like a more likely prospect, especially
if they have cash up front to pay for the costs involved.

Hold onto your wallets everyone.

I will not be answering mail for about ten days, if anyone cares.  Anyone
who contacts the companies above should report to the list on the results.

Pete

P.S. If anyone knows what is involved in producing molds and figures I'd be
curious to know how difficult and what quality a "basement" operation can
be/do.

                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 12:22:40 EDT
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: Traveller bibilography

Does anyone the URL for it? (its a list of suggested sci-fi novels to read...)

Thanks.

Mike McKeown

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 11:53:38 -0500
From: "Pat Connaughton" <pconnaught@fiastl.net>
Subject: Re: Martian Metals Minis

Just a thought but if you're really interested in doing this project
properly then I'd make
the following suggestions:
1.    Find a reliable source to cast the figs.
2.    Check with the list for an initial order from all of us to make it
        worthwhile for the person(s) casting the figs.]
3.    Contact Forest Brown at Challenge Games in Chicago, Ill regarding the
ultimate
        provenance of Martian Metals. I beleive that he once was very
involved with that
        company. His office phone number is (815) 729-1332

BTW I'd like couple of sets for my own use as well.
I think that these mini's could market well to niche customers.

Thanks
Pat Connaughton
pconnaught@fiastl.net
"It's the only game in town"
ICQ Member # 2535086

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 13:05:16 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Technology Marches On

>Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> sez,
>[snip]
>>When cyber limb replacements ...[snip]
>Perhaps. Or maybe not. You'd need a serious motivation to replace a limb,
>because it's going to take a long time to re-learn how to use it.

I agree completely...until higher tech levels when "software dirvers" fit
with the brain's impulses and match the action of the artificial limb.

>Then there's the interesting question as to whether the brain is even
>equipped to accomodate a variety of "interchangeable, highly controllable
>micromanipulators", or any other prosthetic that doesn't mimic the original
>limb.

Well, I see this happening in a number of possible ways;

First, rather than operating the Liftbot (Big danger-yellow teleoperated
legged lifting vehicle ala Aliens) by direct limb analogy (i.e. as though
the 'bot's limbs were your limbs) you could operate by mentally "pushing"
the limbs into place or mentally "lifing" the manipulation arms as though
it were a plastic action figure.

Second, a holographic or video set of "controls" could be provided.  Mental
impulses move the controls and those controls move the 'bot.

The point is, its all in the software.  The computer coordinating your
brain to the teleoperated item (whether an actual limb or some external
device) takes the impulses your brain sends and translates them into
movement, then takes the movement and translates it into a change in the
kinesthetic sense, and, if applicable, feedback in the form of resitance,
touch, heat or cold, etc.

On the other hand, some people (probably the younger ones, as you point
out) are going to find that they can directly manipulate the items to be
controlled using, say, their finger circuits.

An interesting topic.

I think the primary base invention is a device that can meaningfully mimic
or generate neural impulses directly to the brain.  Once there is a
connection established to the brain which can generate sensory input and
capture instructional output we have Gison-like cyberspace.

IMTU people "plug in" at Tech 13+ to their computers.  None of this silly
voice interface stuff.  Of course, the plug must be surgically implanted,
and the ISP fees are usually quite high (to keep the riff-raff off of
course).  Also, you never know when you may run into a cyber-paranoid place
where implants are either outlawed or shunned.  Then there's Glisten where
your implant is as much a status symbol in some circles as laptops are now.

Pete

                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 13:15:28 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Technology Marches On/Martian Metals

> Well,
>you all happen to be reading this post on such a network. A network that
>wasn't built by any government, megacorporation, or multi-billionaire.
>Pretty cool, huh?

Your post is mostly correct, and I agree with a lot of it, but this part is
not an accurate representation.

The initial funding for the oroginal Internet "Backbone" was from defense
dollars (DARPA/ARPA) and, later, Other Government agencies (NSF, NIH,
AFOSR, DOE).  Also, Universities invested in a lot of hardware in the early
years (as they do now) providing gateways and routers and, more
importantly, a market for The Internet by getting all those smart young
students hooked on email. (Much of that money came from the Governments of
various countries, the ones that provide research grants, which directly
and indirectly were used to buy equipment).

Corporations, Billionaires, etc all make their own contributions in a
piecemeal fashion.  User fees from ISPs provide a lot of those companies
with the money to upgrade their own connectors, whose fees contribute to
upgrading the backbone hardware.

So you see, it is just those Governments, Megacorporations (or as close as
we have now) and Multi-Billionaires, plus us Billionaires to be and the
University/Research community which built the network I am using right now
to tell you all this.

Pete


Peter H. Brenton
MIT's Plasma Science and Fusion Center
(617) 253-3185
pbrenton@mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: 02 Jul 1998 13:14 EDT
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Sunbeard the Pirate's TU

Deb Tarrlessen caught the bundle as Frito the Scout tossed it
to him.  Frito's real name was something that sounded like a
pudding Deb liked; but Deb never paid attention.  He was a
busy man.  He was in charge of Keanou Yentil Down Starport.

He was traffic control, customs, shuttle service, repair yard,
and sometimes even brokerage.  He was the bartender, the social
director, and the police.  And he didn't mind his job,
because he got paid for what essentially was free time with
a smidgen of what he called "customer service".  

It wasn't that Keanou is a dump; well, the atmosphere is a
bit nasty, and there isn't a lot of water.  But gravity is
a bit light, and it's a real quiet place mostly.  Perfect 
for retirement, Deb thought.  He watched Frito jog back to
the diminutive Scout base, a tiny affair without even a
parkbay.  It did have its own landing pad, though, and the
lone Courier ship was just leaving.  For another month, it
would be just Frito and Deb; after that, maybe Frito would
get that transfer he always wanted: "To Hefry, the Scout
Capital of this Quadrant!"  Deb didn't know that people
talked like that; "Quadrant" sounded like Solomani terrorist
language to him.

There was no regular trade routes running through Keanou:
Inthe was only one parsec away, but the system's miniscule
population removed any hope of contracts.  But they had a
nice starport.  It was tiny, true, but it was still nice.

Deb watched the beacon telltale that had begun flashing.
"A ship", Deb's autonomic nervous system seemed to bark out,
as he bolted upstairs to the observatory.  Just a spark of 
light, but the ship was approaching nonetheless.  The beacon
would even now be scrawling obscure analog glyphs through
the recording surface onto nothing.  Deb had forgotten to 
reset the receiving device after the last purge.  Stupid
Vilani black boxes, thought Deb.  Why have separate control
systems for mutually dependent parts?  He had complained
once to a visiting knight, who assured him that all would be
taken care of in due time.  "There ain't no more true
gunslingers no more", thought Deb.  "Are there?"

He then went to the control tower, sat down to wait (he had
the patience of Job), and opened the packet Frito had brought
over from the Courier.  There were lists of suspected 
criminals, and associated marked transponder codes.  Deb 
transferred a bunch of work from his "In" box to his "Out"
box, then set the new information in the now-emptier "In" box.
He'd worry about them later.

The ship sailed in gracefully and set down on the lone airstrip.
There were no public parkbays, since traffic was so light,
so the ship just worked into a corner of the pad at the strip's
end and powered down.  Deb scooted out in a general-purpose
open-top wheeled internal combustion vehicle. 

The crew looked like free traders, a bit rumpled but alert.
One wearing captain's colors tromped out, a bushy, slightly
graying beard leading the way.  He stuck his hand out in a 
human gesture of friendship.

Deb and he spoke while the man's crew bought beer.  After
awhile Deb leased them the cargolifter to do some exchanges.
They had stuff Keanou could use, and Deb had some, erm, 
materials that he found difficult to rid himself of.  Both he
and the captain were very pleased.  Deb found that man to be
charming and personable, polite and a fair trader.  He never
wondered about the cargo; he figured it was probably stolen.
But the markets in Keanou didn't ask questions; for some goods
they were desperate, and would absorb them as quickly as they
came in without knowing where they came from.

Before they left, Deb suggested to the captain that when he
was fixing some minor problems on their ship he found some
errors in his transponder programs.  The captain understood
at once and thanked him.  And then they left.  Deb figured
he wouldn't see the pirate again.


Meanwhile, Sunbeard the Pirate was switching to his alternate 
strategy.  He had plenty of emergency plans: no pirate could 
survive without them.  In the meantime he could use transponder 
codes to play cat-and-mouse, but he shouldn't use them too much
until he could find another pirate to swap portions of the
list with.  For more marked codes, he thought.  He wondered
how many marked codes he had, in off-line storage.

Well, no matter.  He now had a very illegal shipment of
groat tonsils to give to the nice (though superstitious)
Patrolman at Dinomn.


Rob

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 13:12:43 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: A Corsair's Tale (long)

We're not murderers. Maybe Captain Kinzarid turned into one, but the
rest of us, we were just people doing our jobs...soldiers who ran out of
war, from a planet that wasn't ours anymore.

We were the proud crew of a Wespirran-class Patrol Cruiser, part of the
planetary navy of Colchis. A whole arm of trading partners had no navy
to speak of, little more than marked spots of bedrock to land the cargo
shuttles on - so we ran circuits through these worlds, showing a flag
and playing beat cop in the lawless outer systems of these backwater
worlds.

We met with a sister ship, the Acensa Kaldiz, at the Mankenna 
fuelling station. Her captain told us what had happened on Colchis,
and we didn't believe it. A coup? A bunch of lunatic fringe insurgents
in charge? We'd been on cruise for a month or so, it seemed impossible
that so much could have gone so wrong in so short a time.

Then the courier showed up from Colchis with our new orders, stamped
"By Order of the Supreme Colchis Technarch Council". That's when we
started believing.

We had family on Colchis, though none close to us - the Colchis Patrol
Service tends to become your family, what with the year-plus rotations
to the Sector Navy Auxialiary Escort program. We also knew that we
had nowhere to turn - as long as these "Technarchs" paid their Impie
taxes, those damned Impies wouldn't care how many free citizens of
Colchis had their property "Optimized" or their lives "Efficiently Directed".

Colchis lost some of her interstellar navy that day. We met some of the
other crews, some joined us, some shot at us - but most of us decided
that it was time for the Technarchs to hurt. We couldn't go back to
Colchis system, the couple of Dragon-class SDB's they kept would make
scrap out of us - but we could snipe at any cargo moving through Colchis
Subsector, cut their little technocracy off at the knees. Ever try to fulfill
promises of an Air/Raft in every garage when someone is nailing
your grav module cargos?

We'd worked blockade with the Impie Navy on our force rotation training
cruises. We were used to keeping our Cruiser running on ingenuity and
grob-nabble chewgum. We knew every workshack and fabrication plant
all up and down the backwaters, and most of them had about as much 
use for the new Technarch Highlords of Colchis as we did. For a time,
we were the bane of merchanters in the subsector. Ships that were too
big, or had powerful enough drives to jump straight from Hamovar to
Colchis, we left alone - but the tradesmen that had to go through the
hinterworlds to get to Colchis were often as not ours for the taking.

We even found a pipeline out of the subsector for goods, so we could not
only hurt Colchis but also start gathering the funds to organize a little
coup of our own. And that, as the saying goes, is where things started
getting out of control.

I think the first time Kinzarid saw a pile of credits on the table - when
Sahin, that Free Trader from Jihael bought a cargo of computer parts
from us. He paid us a fraction of what they were worth, but still the
Captain looked at that pile of credits with a startled expression - like
it had never occurred to him before that moment that any part of our
gallant crusade could involve him sitting in front of a pile of credits, more
than he had ever seen in one place before. That was the beginning of
the end, I think. It hurts to see noble aspirations turn to thoughts of
credits, especially when those piles of credits are so few and far between.

You know the rest. How the formal requests from the Right Technarchic
Assembly of Colchis for Imperial assistance in the control of piracy
was answered by a flotilla of Impie fleet Destroyer-Escorts - 
Fuer-de-Lances were they, or Chrysanthemums? Something like that.
We could outrun or outfight any of the piecemeal starmerc ships that
Colchis hired to police the lanes, but when the ships with the starburst
logo started making themselves known we were out of luck and on the
run. 

Our ship and ourselves were marked men and forfiet to Impie law by then.
Sahin came through for us again, his underworld contacts getting us
some transponder gear and spoof rigs that might let us pass, and got
us out of Colchis subsector. We're on the fringe now, a step ahead of
the law and taking what we can, trusting to the Captain's instincts to 
fly us out of harm's way and into fat traders with cargo we can use.
We have to move every couple of months, and our Cruiser is slowly
turning from a clean-lined ship of a respectable navy into a rag-tag,
field-expedited raider. The crew is changing as well, and we are no longer
the men who dreamed of a free Colchis. Except at night, when I awake
from a dream of sailing her seas, with my Noralle beside me, with stars
overhead that twinkle instead of stare coldly into my soul. He's probably
dead by now, as my Colchis is dead to me. I won't see it again, 
except in my dreams...


Author's notes: Just some ideas on wheres and whys of piracy. "Colchis"
is a world in a backwater subsector, at the end of a trade link from a
planet called "Hammovar". Colchis is very important to it's inhabitants,
and almost irrelevant to the Imperium. The string of backwater worlds
that trade with Colchis are even less relevant. Colchis maintained a
small system defense force, and a flotilla of jump-capable patrol craft.
These patrol cruisers would perform peacekeeping and patrol duties
in the other systems, rotating back to Colchis instead of being based
at these lesser worlds - Colchis wanted it very clear where the patrols
were coming from, and had no interest in letting these hinterworlds
forget that they owed their well-being to good trade relations with Colchis.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 19:39:49 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Ports and ship construction (CT)

DustyLV769@aol.com writes:

>     I have been wondering; why is it possible for only type A starports to
>build starships?

That's looking at it the wrong way round. A starport gets a Class A rating
if it is capable of building starships. Therefore only Class A starports
are able to build starships, because if a Class B starport was able to
build starships, it wouldn't be a Class B but a Class A.

That said, the rules on the subject are contradictory. TCS does forbid
worlds without a Class A starport from building starships, but there is
a rule somewhere (Book 2, I think) to the effect that planetary
governments can build starships at their own TL even without an A port
(they can also have them built at any starport in the same subsector at
no extra cost).

IMTU starport classification is a purely civilian phenomenon. If a civilian
can order a starship and have it constructed in the normal time, the
starport is Class A (That is, provided the other requirements of a Class A
starport is likewise met). That means that a starport with shipyards
completely booked up for years ahead gets a temporary drop in classification
(I've used this in several cases to explain high-tech, high-population worlds
with low-class starports).

>I could see a case being made that a class A port is the
>only one with the facilities to build jump drives...but why not buy jump
>drives and import them to a world with a class B port?

IMO that would change the Class B port in question to a Class A.

>IMTU, I am using the CT starship construction rules (with modifications and
>editions...putting it together in a document to post here soon), with HGv2 to
>be used for large than 5000dt vessels.  I am thinking of having class B ports
>capable of building ships up to 5000dt, and requiring A ports for anything
>larger.  Feedback, perhaps?

What I think is needed is an "Extended Starport Profile" showing its various
capacities (so many passengers/week, so much cargo/week, this tonnage repair
capacity, that tonnage boat construction, that tonnage ship construction, etc.)
  
>On a related note, does anyone have any idea what the average yard capacity
>(for shipbuilding purposes) a class A or B port would have?

By TCS rules it is 1 T per 1000 inhabitants of the planet. IMO this figure
is for military capacity only and civilian capacity (as well as both military
and civilian maintenance) is in addition to that, but that's debatable.

>I am running into the problem that in my subsector, there are 2 worlds
>(TL's D and C) with populations of 9.  This gives them an enormous advantage
>over even the higher-tech worlds, simply because of thier naval budget
>(using TCS).  

Well, if you are using _High Guard_ ships and combat then a TL 15 fleet
should be at roughly a 5-to-1 advantage against a TL 13 fleet and at a
20-to-1 against a TL 12 fleet (assuming proper design on both sides). A
TL 14 fleet is at 3-to-2 against TL 13 and 10-t0-2 against TL 12, so if
they have a population level of 8 they might be able to hold their own.
Still, you are perfectly right. High-population planets dominate. That's
just a fact of life in the Traveller universe.

>It's kinda
> like comparing the combat power of the US Navy to the combat power of the
> Nigerian Navy :-)  I have considered  lowering the tax rate from Cr500 to
> Cr100, but this hurts the smaller worlds even more.  I am thinking now that
> yard capacity should be the limiting factor.  Anyone have any Real World (tm)
> info to offer?
> 
> 
And Steven Hudson comments:

>  My suggestion would be to make the budget formula non-linear past a certain
>point (500 million or 1 billion people [1x10^9] or whatever amuses you) and
>then use a formula past that point to slow growth - representing a decrease
>in per capita machinery, resources, and overall durable goods production.

The formula I use is dividing by log (population) - 7 for populations above
100,000,000. That will give you 1/2 the normal budget for a planet with one
billion inhabitants and 1/4 for one with 10 billion. Note that high-population
planets are still more powerful than those with lower populations, just not
proportionally so.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 11:09:03 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Technology Marches On/Martian Metals

Peter H. Brenton wrote:
> 
> > Well,
> >you all happen to be reading this post on such a network. A network that
> >wasn't built by any government, megacorporation, or multi-billionaire.
> >Pretty cool, huh?
> 
> Your post is mostly correct, and I agree with a lot of it, but this part is
> not an accurate representation.

What Peter said, and this:

Most of the wires this all travels on were put up mainly by government
authorized monopolies, often subsidised heavily...telcom networks the
world over represent trillions and trillions of dollars of investments
over a century of building; in the US that was, until the breakup of Ma
Bell, a single monopoly with legislated tariff structures. 

In the beginning, this prevented a standards problem with the telephone
that had plagued another great network of the 19th century, the
construction of the rail network, where there were different standards
on every railway, preventing efficient integration of the whole into an
efficient transportation network.

Some indication of the potential problems have been seen on the Internet
here in the US, where often the largest bottlenecks are between the big
trunk providers, between Sprint, UUNet, MCI and the others, because
their routers often speak different languages, and jammed up talking to
each other. That this is happening during exponential growth in traffic
doesn't help, either.

Now of course, what with the Telcom Act of '96, the baby Bells and ATT
are slowly coming together like the rolling blobs of T2000 in Terminator
2, but that's off topic.

Granted, were the worlds telcom net wiped out and had to be rebuilt from
scratch we could do it cheaper, but there would still be a significant
amount of governmental subsidy to ensure universal access in most
countries.

Cheap, efficient, and reliable communications infrastructure is going to
be even more important in the 3I than it is now, and so governments are
going to have a big stake in what's done, again that ensuring access is
as universal as possible. Granted _interstellar_ commo is relegated to
the speed of travel, but the rest of the system is hardly on the 19th
century model.

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 14:59:03 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Ports and ship construction (CT) 

> DustyLV769@aol.com writes:
> 
> >     I have been wondering; why is it possible for only type A starports to
> >build starships?
> 
> That's looking at it the wrong way round. A starport gets a Class A rating
> if it is capable of building starships. Therefore only Class A starports
> are able to build starships, because if a Class B starport was able to
> build starships, it wouldn't be a Class B but a Class A.
> 
> That said, the rules on the subject are contradictory. TCS does forbid
> worlds without a Class A starport from building starships, but there is
> a rule somewhere (Book 2, I think) to the effect that planetary
> governments can build starships at their own TL even without an A port
> (they can also have them built at any starport in the same subsector at
> no extra cost).

High Guard 2nd Edition.

> >I could see a case being made that a class A port is the
> >only one with the facilities to build jump drives...but why not buy jump
> >drives and import them to a world with a class B port?
> 
> IMO that would change the Class B port in question to a Class A.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm...

Class B's are capable of *repairing* starships.  I'd say, replacing jump 
drives would be a repair function, & therefore legal...

 What I think is needed is an "Extended Starport Profile" showing its various
> capacities (so many passengers/week, so much cargo/week, this tonnage repair
> capacity, that tonnage boat construction, that tonnage ship construction, etc.)
>   

Absolutely.  I think the Judges Guild's 50 Starbases had this kind of 
'chroming', but I can't find my copy right now...

> >On a related note, does anyone have any idea what the average yard capacity
> >(for shipbuilding purposes) a class A or B port would have?
> 
> By TCS rules it is 1 T per 1000 inhabitants of the planet. IMO this figure
> is for military capacity only and civilian capacity (as well as both military
> and civilian maintenance) is in addition to that, but that's debatable.

This is a liveable number, I think.  But what about the TL 16 planets with 2 
or 3 inhabitants boasting an A starport?

Keven
- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #626
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Friday, July 3 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 627



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Martian Metal Minis for sale
comparing the versions
Re Martian metal mins.
Re: Ports and ship construction (CT)
Re: Ports and ship construction (CT)
Re: TravSuite released as Shareware
Re: Ports and ship construction (CT) 
Re: Ports and ship construction (CT)
Re: Technology Marches On
Re: Question on TL
re: traveller bibliography/bboks to read
Sector mapper program
Re: Martian Metals Miniatures
Re: Appearance of Jump Space
Re: Sector mapper program 
Re: Ports and ship construction (CT)
Re: A Corsair's Tale and Sunbeard the Pirate
[none]
Re: Ports and ship construction (CT)
Re: 25mm Sci-Fi figures
Re: IN Sting operations
Re: Sunbeard and the Colchis Liberation Front

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 15:56:09 -0400
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: Martian Metal Minis for sale

At 06:20 AM 7/2/98 -0500, you wrote:
<Snip>...
>  Is it Peter Pig who makes the "Command Decision" 15's? Those are decent
>enough, and the 251's can be converted to ACV or grav suspensions easily
>enough (as Scotia did for some of their micro-SF lines, apparently). I've
>also got a few very nice 15's from "Quality Castings Inc".
>

Actually I only listed makers I knew of, of 15mm SF figures... Old
Glory/Skytrex make the Command Decision 15s (OG the figures, Skytrex, the
vehicles/equipment).  There are ***LOTS*** of 15 modern era figures on the
market - OG/Skytres, Peter Pig, Irregular, Quality Castings, Yukka,
Military Miniatures, Outland Games (Oops! They also have, IIRC, a new range
of 15mm SF figs, too), and likely others I've forgot...

>  $75 US for each master, yes? Citadel had well over a hundred figures in
>their product line; it gets a bit rich for an amateur project. As much as
>I might detest Pudding Workshop, they do seem to have the advantage here.
> 

Fair enough...  Sigh...



Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 15:06:26 CDT
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@itds.com>
Subject: comparing the versions

A discussion I had with with some gamers last night led to a question
I thought I'd pose to the TML.  

Has anyone made comparisons of the versions of the game?  It might
be useful to a newbie and make for a good FAQ...

Comparing LBB to MT to TNE to T4 to GT...

Character Generation
Character Combat
Starship Design
Starship Combat
Economics
Experience

Just a few places to start...


DonM.

- --
==========================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist             dmckinne@itds.com =
= International Telecommunications Data Systems           (217) 239-8365 =
= 2109 Fox Drive, Champaign, IL                           (217) 351-8250 =
= Winter War XXVI Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 5-7, 1999 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org     (217) 469-9917 = 
==========================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 21:16:51 +0100
From: "CHARLES WALKER" <cnw@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re Martian metal mins.

Having spoken to several designers of both 15 & 25mm figures for New Masters
you are looking at 50-75 UK pounds per figure then you need to produce then
(moulds cost about £10 each) a mould will hold about 15-20 masters.....now
find a sculptor who is interested.....

                    If you have the masters I can find someone who can
produce them.


Sums only approximate will get accurate figures if any body wants them.


Nick.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 16:20:03 EDT
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re: Ports and ship construction (CT)

>This is a liveable number, I think.  But what about the TL 16 planets with 2
>or 3 inhabitants boasting an A starport?

 As long as those two are called Wallace and Gromit (or Pinky and The Brain),
it still makes SOME kind of sense.
 Since the Scouts only count living, permanent residents for the Survey, that
means that robots and grad students don't count!

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 13:49:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
Subject: Re: Ports and ship construction (CT)

>  Since the Scouts only count living, permanent residents for the Survey, that
> means that robots and grad students don't count!

Oh come now, let's be reasonable.

The robots might count.

Ben

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 22:05:24 +0100
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: TravSuite released as Shareware

> The map generator looked the most useful

my thoughts as well.


> although when I tried saving the map the software crashed

same for me with Win 3.1, win 3.11 and Win 95



Simon

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 17:12:11 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Ports and ship construction (CT) 

> >This is a liveable number, I think.  But what about the TL 16 planets with 2
> >or 3 inhabitants boasting an A starport?
> 
>  As long as those two are called Wallace and Gromit (or Pinky and The Brain),
> it still makes SOME kind of sense.

I thought I did that thread last week.  Sheesh...

>  Since the Scouts only count living, permanent residents for the Survey, that
> means that robots and grad students don't count!

Aren't they one & the same?  <ducking>

Keven
- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 14:38:57 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Ports and ship construction (CT)

Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:

> >  Since the Scouts only count living, permanent residents for the Survey, that
> > means that robots and grad students don't count!
> 
> Aren't they one & the same?  <ducking>
>

Oh, hell no! Robots are valuable and hard to replace! That's why
Universities prefer Grad Students, even though they do messy,
inefficient things like sleep once a week,eat occasionally, attempt to
have lives, and expect to get a degree when they graduate...;-)

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 22:42:06 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Technology Marches On

neo@total.net (Glenn Grant) wrote:

>Perhaps. Or maybe not. You'd need a serious motivation to replace a limb,
>because it's going to take a long time to re-learn how to use it. One
>problem often overlooked in discussions of bionics is that your brain has
>developed as your body developed; if you lose a limb and replace it with a
>prosthetic, you've got to re-learn all kinds of basic physical tasks from
>scratch. Tet a new prosthetic arm, and you have to re-learn how to tie your
>shoes, to drink from a cup, to eat with a knife and fork...

When I was back at university ( mech enh course back in 95) I did a course
in digital and analogue control. In it, we had a guest lecturer (IIRC from
the Oxford Radcliffe hospital in the UK). He was demonstrating the work
that they were doing on prosthetic limbs for accident victims.

They had done a lot of work quantifying the signals sent out by the brain
to control muscles, and tailoring the response of the limb to such
responses. At the stage that they were, each limb was uniquely built and
tailored for the user.

One of the big areas they were discussing looking into was the fitting of
sensors for feedback to the nervous system. They seemed to think that was
the next big challenge.

The really scary thing was when they demonstrated the control system on me
by wiring up some contacts on the nerve centre of my arm and then
proceeding to totally overide my control of my arm. It was quite frightning
not being able to control my movement myself.

I suspect that the work must have progressed further now...

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 18:46:51 EDT
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Question on TL

In a message dated 98-07-01 06:40:58 EDT, you write:

<< Ok so the general impression that I get is that well the TL don't
 actually mean the WHOLE planet, just most (or travelers).
 
 But then:
 	Why have TL9 weapons (if you could with a bit of difficulty get
 TL12 or even TL16)
 	(other that reasons that other governments don't want your
 government to get some and the fact that your government may want to buy
 things locally to keep the economy up)
  >>

I use a metaphor of the Earth, or of America, for understanding TL. The USA
has a TL of N (meaning some unknown number in this case rather than 21). Does
that mean that every other place on Earth has the same TL N, or is that TL
lower because of difficulties of transferring TL to other locations?

The armaments of the Mexican army are probably not at TL N, rather at TL N-1
or N-2 or ever lower. Why is this? I suppose primarily because of economics...
costs involved in, maintenance, and whatever. Recently, the USA gave Mexico a
fleet of TL N-2 helicopters (which the US doesn't need anymore). Mexico has
none of them flying however, because they don't have the maintenance crews to
keep them up (and perhaps don't want to spend the money to do so).

Similarly, there are places on Earth where local TL is 1 or 0 (primitive
tribes in the Amazon?). You could, I suppose, spend a lot of money and upgrade
them to TL N, but (1) there is little economic purpose/benefit in doing that,
and (2) it would require importing a support structure that would cost a lot
of money.

Right now, there aren't even cell phones in the Amazon... because there isn't
an economic purpose. But, if you discovered oil deep in the Amazon, I'm sure
someone would set up a cell phone network. However, would the natives be able
to make use of those cell phones? The would if they all got hired as oil rig
workers and started getting incomes, but the ones who weren't hired (lack of
education, social skills, and whatever else) would hardly have access to the
high tech stuff that gets imported.

To recap... the restrictions on TL are based on economics. If you want to
carry a full high tech set of equipment to some other world, you certainly
can. But local tech level restrictions (not legal, but economic) mean that the
local economy can't build high tech stuff. If you wanted to, you could come in
and build a factory to make high tech stuff and then sell it to the locals
(whether you make a profit depends on what the locals have to spend). Worlds
with great exploitable resources have a potential for higher TL because they
can get the money to upgrade. Poor worlds probably don't.

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 19:59:30 EDT
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: re: traveller bibliography/bboks to read

http::/members.aol.com/kagekiha/traveller



Bryan
HIWG CS

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 16:59:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Sector mapper program

I wrote, mostly for my own amusement, a program which takes a sector and will
print all or part of it as a plaintext map (turning it into html with a <pre>
specifier is actually handy for viewing); it reads .sec files as they are in
the Missouri archives, and can generate maps of any size up to a full sector,
centered on any location or star in the sector.  I also bashed together a map
of the entire spinward marches with color-coded allegiance codes (is there some
set of colors I _ought_ to use?  I was picking pretty randomly).  Anyway, is
there somewhere I could/should place the source (or does anyone even want it?)
- -- I don't have a web page handy right now.  Source is 115 lines of C code,
output looks like (small chunk of regina subsector here):
Pos   17     18     19     20     21     22     23     24     
     +----+        +----+        +----+        +----+        +
    /      \      /Hefry \      /      \      /Yurst \      /
 9 +        +----+C2004237+----+        +----+E7B46435+----+
    \      /Ruie  \Im   S/      \      /      \Im    /Name(6 letters)\
     +----+C7769777+----+        +----+        +----+UPP(dash removed)+
    /      \Na    /Regina\      /Yori  \      /      \Al Capital Base/ 
10 +        +----+A788899C+----+C360757A+----+        +----+  
    \      /      \Im + A/      \Im    /      \      /      \ 
     +----+        +----+        +----+        +----+        +
Write me if you're interested in making this available on a web page or
similar, I won't respond to individual requests.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 12:04:08 +0200
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Martian Metals Miniatures

Steven Hudson wrote:

>   It might be more productive (and at least legal) to track down this company
> "Hobby Products GmbH" who seem to be re-releasing under license the 15mm figures
> from Citadel, which were (IMNSHO) the best 15mm Trav figures ever done. Is there
> anyone on the list well-placed to look into a seemingly German mini's producer?
I can look, but afaik hobby products print run was over a couple of years ago.
today the old miniatures are hard to find in german stores as well.
so unless they have started again.....
- -- 
					 Volker
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
     /----------------------------------------------------------\
    /  Volker A. Greimann  Am Weidengraben 86, C6  54296 Trier   \
   /  grei5001@uni-trier.de   GERMANY    greimann@geocities.com   \
  /  ICQ:9767142      http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061   \
 /  Please don´t try to stop me-I´m just barely ahead of insanity   \
/--------------------------------------------------------------------\

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 17:36:02 PDT
From: "Paul Zumstein" <pzumstein@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Appearance of Jump Space

>From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
>
>Steve Rennell wrote:
>
>> I was surprised to learn that there are people who took
>> that to mean that the sky was clear and blue - seems the youth of
>> today are growing up with TV sets that bluescreen when
>> there isn't a signal...
>
>Well, um, err..ARRRGGGHHH I can't hold it any longer...
>
>Steve, those are actually people who own those new, experimental
>MicrosoftTV's (R). They actually pop up with a blue screen all the
>time...
>

No wonder people go insane looking into jump space! ;^>

PZ

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 20:37:07 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Sector mapper program 

> I wrote, mostly for my own amusement, a program which takes a sector and will
> print all or part of it as a plaintext map (turning it into html with a <pre>
> specifier is actually handy for viewing); it reads .sec files as they are in
> the Missouri archives, and can generate maps of any size up to a full sector,
> centered on any location or star in the sector.
>
> Write me if you're interested in making this available on a web page or
> similar, I won't respond to individual requests.

Yeah, post it!!!!!!!!!!!

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 21:03:38 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Ports and ship construction (CT)

In a message dated 7/2/98 10:42:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time, rancke@diku.dk
writes:

<< I could see a case being made that a class A port is the
 >only one with the facilities to build jump drives...but why not buy jump
 >drives and import them to a world with a class B port?
 
 IMO that would change the Class B port in question to a Class A.
 
 >>

I have to disagree here, I'm afraid.  It cannot be anymore difficult to
install a pre-fabbed jump drive unit than to install a manuever unit, IMO

Dusty

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 21:02:28 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: A Corsair's Tale and Sunbeard the Pirate

I just wanted to encourage Robert and Walter...and others...to give us
some more of these "slice of life tales."  Articles like these are as
useful to me as any gear or system writeup, and generally more
entertaining.  

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 10:20:10 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: [none]

unsubscribe

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 23:13:05 -0500
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@fastlane.net>
Subject: Re: Ports and ship construction (CT)

At 09:03 PM 7/2/1998 -0400, Dusty wrote:
>In a message dated 7/2/98 10:42:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time, rancke@diku.dk
>writes:
>
><< I could see a case being made that a class A port is the
> >only one with the facilities to build jump drives...but why not buy jump
> >drives and import them to a world with a class B port?
> 
> IMO that would change the Class B port in question to a Class A.
> 
> >>
>
>I have to disagree here, I'm afraid.  It cannot be anymore difficult to
>install a pre-fabbed jump drive unit than to install a manuever unit, IMO
>
>Dusty
> 
Another thing that differentiates an A class from a B class starport is
that an A class can build hulls with the lanthanum grid in them, which is a
primary component of the jump drive.  B class starports can't.

Jimmy Simpson
	nimrodd@fastlane.net
"Cannot say.
 Saying, I would know.
 Do not know.
 So cannot say."
		-Zathras (Babylon 5)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 00:18:43 -0700
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: 25mm Sci-Fi figures

Walter Smith wrote:

> I found some astounding science fiction miniatures at a convention once
> from a (European?) company called Metal Magic. Very nicely sculpted,
> reminded me of some of the better artwork from Heavy Metal magazine.
> Does anyone know if this company is still in business?

Yes, they did produce some very nice figs.
Yes, they still are in business.
But, as I recall they have discontinued that line.
And last, no, I will not sell mine.

- --
Evyn,
Warleader of the Clan MacDude
Solus Stellamilitia Ludus, 1998 Œ

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 18:40:16
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: IN Sting operations

>From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
>Subject: IN Sting Operations (was re: Traveller Digest)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>There are some days it just plain sucks to be a bad guy. Getting caught
>in a sting operation is just one of them.
>
>Whatever enterprising IN agent comes up with this one had better be
>patient, and have a streetwise roll good enough to make it more profitable
>for him to be a bad guy himself. (Duty and honor are very, very good things
>to instill in your intelligence agents...how many CIA agents became
>drug smugglers or freelance operatives doing bad things?)
>

This is one of the great dilemnas of intelligence - you want people shifty
enough to be good at their jobs, but honest enough to always be on your
side ... actually, it smells far more like an IISS plan, rather than like a
IN plan.

>He has to get a rack of transponder codes, for the express purpose of
>releasing them into the wilds. Granted, he intends to have all of them
>on a hot sheet - but whatever governing body is in charge of transponder
>codes (assuming there is one) will want him to do anything else.
>The average ship (or even sub-C class starport) will have to take a
>transponder at face value. While there may be so many fraudulent
>transponders out there that this is unwise, whoever is in charge of
>transponders isn't about to admit it and allow a bunch of extra codes
>to float around out there.
>
>He has to find "Lefty". Just sitting around in starport bars and whispering
>"hey buddy, wanna buy some new transponder codes?" will only get
>him in touch with player characters. <g>

The unstated assumption that I'd hinted at was that he is Lefty. If he is
Lefty, then the below is less likely to happen.

>
>Oh, and I will give you that a starport (class E or so) that doesn't
>forward traffic records (marked spots of bedrock may have limited
>administration facilities) might be suspected as a pirate stop, and
>might have an IN agent hanging around recording info for the next
>courier that might (or might not) show up next week. He'll probably 
>be a low-level agent ready to try *anything* to get promoted out
>of this job...which might lead him to try the sting we're talking about,
>even though the following is more likely to occur...

Sounds like a great job for PCs ... 'Welcome to Treece. Your mission,
should you choose to accept it (*) involves trying to penetrate the pirate
bands that K division have assured us are here'

(*) Not accepting the mission involves facing the tender mercies of the
Imperial Navy Adjutant-General over certain unspecified but serious charges.

>
>Lt. Mitisky sells his rack of bogus codes to "Lefty" in a starport bar.
>What happens to them next?
>
>"Lefty" goes and sells 90% of these codes at a discount to an
>employee at a shipyard who wants to get a bunch of codes for
>a tenth the usual price and pocket the difference, probably without
>knowledge of the rest of the company. Instead of having to deal with
>several dozen dangerous pirates, Lefty only has to deal with one
>greedy clerk. Lefty thinks this is safer, though he will sell a few to
>his special "Free Trader" friends. 

Hmmmm. Not impossible, but I'd say it's more likely that it's the starport
owner or manager who could pull this off - at the least, you'd need a
forged receipt from BuStarships, or whoever it is that issues transponder
codes, and some way of switching funds from the 'Pay BuStarships' account
to the 'Pay Me' account.

>The codes go to ships built by legitimate small trade companies
>and individual merchants, and as far as these individuals know everything
>is legal and up front. They probably even have legitimate paperwork.
>Two subsectors (or sectors) away, an Imperial Patrol Cruiser reads
>their transponder, sees it on the hot sheet, and impounds them
>until this can be figured out - which is long enough to put a small trader
>crew out of business. 

The alternative would be for the Navy to offer the suspects His Magesty's
Hospitality while the Navy finds another crew (who pass positive vetting)
to mind the ship. Heck, it makes sense to draft the ship into the Imperial
Reserve pending judgement - the crew still have title to it, until the
story is sorted out and they are either released or charged.

If the story comes up OK (and this is a case where the ship's books and
starport records are your friend as a suspect - if the records indicate
you're clean, then you should be OK), then you get the ship back.

If it doesnt, well you might end up charged as pirates, or as whatever else
comes up.

>The bank (owners of the ship) lose their property
>to Imperial Seizure. The crew either goes to jail, or at least have no ship
>and a several MCr debt with no ship to pay it off with. Mr. shady shipyard
>employee scampered a long time ago with his several MCr take, leaving
>the rest of the company to take the blame, the charges and the lawsuits.
>The shipbuilding business on the planet is ruined, and the local noble
>(seeing a massive loss in tax revenue) blames it all on our intrepid
>Lt. Mitisky dumping those transponder codes onto the black market
>in the first place. The sector office of the Imperial Navy hunts around for
>a scapegoat, and Lt. Mitisky spends the rest of his career piloting a
>one-man scout on the Zhodani border.

Depends if it is an actual on-orders operation, or something dreamed up by
some rogue lieutenant.

The point also got raised earlier by ?Bloo? that banks would be far more
paranoid about skipping and such than many people seem to think - and
skipping is the easiest form of piracy, seeing how you already have the
ship's crew on side.

>
>Not saying that some enterprising, promotion-hungry intelligence agent
>won't try this - say, with a rack of codes that belong to impounded or
>IN-destroyed ships - but stings like this can blow up in your face pretty
>easily on Earth - not to mention how they could go wrong in a society
>plagued by multi-week communication delays.

Commo delay isnt that much of a problem. It just slows things down, and
there are ways to live with that.

>
>Of course, the adventure seed here is the players find out the code of thier
>brand new starship is on a hot list - they have the fun of dodging Impie
>navy vessels until they can get back to where they bought it, and find
>the greedy bum who screwed them over. Maybe they even get to take it
>a step or two farther, and hang the blame on our daring Lt. Mitisky... <g>

Hey, this is the Great Piracy Debate of 1997-8. You cant go taking argument
and counter argument and extracting a scenario. This is all to butt heads
and show off how macho and unwilling to reply to logical coherent argument
we are :)

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 19:03:50
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Sunbeard and the Colchis Liberation Front

>From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
>Subject: Sunbeard the Pirate's TU

<excellent stuff deleted>

>
>There was no regular trade routes running through Keanou:
>Inthe was only one parsec away, but the system's miniscule
>population removed any hope of contracts.  But they had a
>nice starport.  It was tiny, true, but it was still nice.
>
>Deb watched the beacon telltale that had begun flashing.
>"A ship", Deb's autonomic nervous system seemed to bark out,
>as he bolted upstairs to the observatory.

<more good stuff deleted>

>Deb and he spoke while the man's crew bought beer.  After
>awhile Deb leased them the cargolifter to do some exchanges.
>They had stuff Keanou could use, and Deb had some, erm, 
>materials that he found difficult to rid himself of.  Both he
>and the captain were very pleased.  Deb found that man to be
>charming and personable, polite and a fair trader.  He never
>wondered about the cargo; he figured it was probably stolen.
>But the markets in Keanou didn't ask questions; for some goods
>they were desperate, and would absorb them as quickly as they
>came in without knowing where they came from.

Fair enough.

>
>Before they left, Deb suggested to the captain that when he
>was fixing some minor problems on their ship he found some
>errors in his transponder programs.  The captain understood
>at once and thanked him.  And then they left.  Deb figured
>he wouldn't see the pirate again.

Why didnt Deb pass the list onto Sunbeard in exchange for appropriate
compensation ?

If Deb is not happy with a permanent retirement, he may want to pass a
report up the line about Sunbeard. I'd assume that the bits of the IN or
IISS who deal with suppressing piracy would be inclined to reward or
promote people who helped crack pirate rings. 

>
>
>Meanwhile, Sunbeard the Pirate was switching to his alternate 
>strategy.  He had plenty of emergency plans: no pirate could 
>survive without them.  In the meantime he could use transponder 
>codes to play cat-and-mouse, but he shouldn't use them too much
>until he could find another pirate to swap portions of the
>list with.  For more marked codes, he thought.  He wondered
>how many marked codes he had, in off-line storage.
>

Wouldnt this drop the other pirate in the poo ? While this is fine for
Sunbeard, it reduces the pirate population, which is the point of the plan.

>Rob
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 13:12:43 -0400
>From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
>Subject: A Corsair's Tale (long)
>
>Colchis lost some of her interstellar navy that day. We met some of the
>other crews, some joined us, some shot at us - but most of us decided
>that it was time for the Technarchs to hurt. We couldn't go back to
>Colchis system, the couple of Dragon-class SDB's they kept would make
>scrap out of us - but we could snipe at any cargo moving through Colchis
>Subsector, cut their little technocracy off at the knees. Ever try to fulfill
>promises of an Air/Raft in every garage when someone is nailing
>your grav module cargos?

<great stuff deleted>

>We even found a pipeline out of the subsector for goods, so we could not
>only hurt Colchis but also start gathering the funds to organize a little
>coup of our own. And that, as the saying goes, is where things started
>getting out of control.


I'll bite. Why not sell the ship, and use that to fund the Revolution, or
sign on as a mercenary cruiser, and use the funds so raised to fund the
good fight ?

I'd need to go through the detail on the Rules of War, but I'd imagine the
hands-off Imperial attitude to planetary governments also applies to a
hands-off attitude to off-world rebels.

I imagine it as something like Australia's position to fundraising for
rebels, secessionists and the like. Essentially, if there are two ethnic or
political groups slugging it out somewhere, there are people on both sides
in Australia. Serbs, Croats, Bosnians, Macedonians, Greeks, Turks,
Russians, Uzbeks, Timorese, Indonesians, Tamils, Sri Lankans ... we've got
the lot. From memory, there have been three cases of politically motivated
violence in Australia - but everyone raises money here, and sends it home,
or to Switzerland or wherever for forwarding to the fighters. Similarly, if
you have thirty blokes who want to fight the good fight, thats OK too
(there have apparently been planes to the former Yugoslavia carrying
volunteers for all sides simultaneously). But you dont do the actual
fighting here. You go home to do that.

This, for me, fits with the Imperium's acceptance of diversity, and their
hands-off attitude to local affairs.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #627
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Friday, July 3 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 628



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Ports and ship construction (CT)
Ripples through the Imperium
Re: Shouldn't we be dead? (was Re: Supernovas)
Re: When Worlds Collide
Re: Technology Marches On/Martian Metals
Re: Sunbeard 
Re: Martian Metal Minis for sale
Re: 25mm Sci-Fi figures
Re: Ports and ship construction (CT)
Armagedon
Re: comparing the versions
Re: TravSuite released as Shareware
Color of Jumpspace
Re: Armageddon
Re: comparing the versions 
Traveller Software
Re: Armagedon
Re: Armed merchants
Re: comparing the versions
Re: T4 Software
Re: Martian Metals Minis
Re: Sunbeard
Re: Ports and ship construction (CT)
Re: Martian Metals Minis

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 01:55:35 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Ports and ship construction (CT)

Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@fastlane.net> wrote

> ><< I could see a case being made that a class A port is the
> > >only one with the facilities to build jump drives...but why not buy 
> > >jump drives and import them to a world with a class B port?

> > IMO that would change the Class B port in question to a Class A.

> > I have to disagree here, I'm afraid.  It cannot be anymore difficult 
> > to install a pre-fabbed jump drive unit than to install a manuever 
> > unit, IMO

> Another thing that differentiates an A class from a B class starport 
> is that an A class can build hulls with the lanthanum grid in them, 
> which is a primary component of the jump drive.  B class starports > can't.

But class B starports can build non starships of any size.  Including
those which are carried in extenal mounts by their parent ship.  Now
maybe the 10 ton launch carried in an external grapple by the 390 ton
Fat trader fits within the traders jump field but what about a 20,000
ton battle rider carried by a huge tender.  Shouldn't this ship need a
lanthanum hull grid.  Yet a type B port can build one.  IMNHO a type a
port must be capable of installing the zucchi crystals or some other
techno babble answer, but a type B starport is perfectly capable of
ensuring that the hull grid has the right ammount of lanthanum in it. 
It seems to me that all you really need to lay the lanthanum grid
properly is the ability to melt lanthanum in the first place & maybe
some primitive means of anlyzing the output, I would say you could do
this without much of a problem at, or maybe before, TL 5.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 12:20:10 +0000
From: "Carlos Alos-Ferrer" <Carlos.Alos-Ferrer@univie.ac.at>
Subject: Ripples through the Imperium

	I wnated to answer a very simple question. When did the news of 
Strephon's assasination arrive in Shiwonee (Massilia J, Geonee 
homeworld)? I obtained two canon-based contradictory answers.

	a) Ripples through the Imperium, in The Rebellion Sourcebook, lists 
a Ripple dated 258.1116 going through subsector N, so the date for 
Shiwonee should be around one or two weeks before, lets say around 
240.1116

	b) Xboat routed for Massilia, appered in TD 16 (?) and in Kngihtfall 
(here, some were severed due to the split of the sector between Li 
and Ma) shows that the only way to go from Shiwonee to Core sector is 
a long detour to subsector D, numbering 14 jumps. Then, there are no 
canon (AFAIK) Xboat routes for Core sector, but an optimistic 
estimate looking at the map would give around 10 jumps from that 
point (Massilia D) to Capital. This yields 24 jumps, i.e. 24x7=176 
days. Added to 136.1116, the ETA for Shiwonee would be  312.1116

	This is a difference of more than 70 days (10 jumps), and it could 
have important effects on a campaign.

	A note is that the Xboat routes for Massilia are somewhat strange. 
Even before 1116, in subsector B, there are THREE loose ends, without 
connection between them.

	What do you people think? Help!

	Carlos Alos-Ferrer, a.k.a. the Geonee-maker

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 21:17:10 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Shouldn't we be dead? (was Re: Supernovas)

In mail you write:

>>For even more excitement, a gamma-ray-burst event (if the numbers for the
>>Really Big Burst recently observed are right) might have a kill radius of 
>>fifty to a hundred parsecs.
>
> Seems to me that all this poses a significant improbability for there
> being advanced life on Earth. After all, it took us how many hundreds of
> millions of years to get to this stage? If at any point along the way
> we could have been wiped out by a nearby supernova, gamma-ray burst,
> chuck of rock, etc... then what are the odds of all these things _not_
> happening? Clearly, we got hit by a few rocks. Life bounces back. But
> if a supernova or gamma-ray burst can _sterilize_ the planet at 10-100
> parsecs, then it seems to me that the odds against advanced life just
> became nearly insurmountable. The fact that we are here to appreciate
> this notion shows that perhaps we are among the lucky few, and it
> forms quite a nice solution to Fermi's Paradox about why aliens aren't
> dropping out of the sky like flies. Anyone want to run some numbers
> and theorize about the odds of some random, life-bearing planet
> clearing this hurdle? I mean, is it something like 10%? 1%? 0.00001%?
> This would have a huge impact on any SF-campaign.

But keep in mind that if a world lucks out, the odds *favor* the
surrounding stars lucking out as well.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 23:35:24 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: When Worlds Collide

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> > Gee... does the ship^H^H^H^Hplanet have vestiges of a hexagonal grid on
>> > its surface? :)
>>
>> If it does, my first response would be to set full thrust *away* from
>> the planet, and jump as soon as it is safe!
>
> Have i missed somthing here?

Yes. Do the names Nathan Brazil and Mavra Chang ring any bells?

If not, hit your local bookstore and look for Jack Chalker's "Well
World" series.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 23:48:44 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Technology Marches On/Martian Metals

In mail you write:

> Example:  I always wondered how a high-TL world-wide communications
> network that starships routinely access at a Class A/B starport could
> come into being when the cost would almost always be prohibitive. Well,
> you all happen to be reading this post on such a network. A network that
> wasn't built by any government, megacorporation, or multi-billionaire.
> Pretty cool, huh?

Hate to break the news to you but the Internet exists because of the US
government. The Department of Defense's Advanced Research Projects
Agency (ARPA) set out to create a communications network that could
survive a nuclear strike by routing around damaged nodes. 

That was the ARPAnet, which was the beginnings of the Internet. It was
still a significant portion of the Internet not all that long ago.

The ARPANET connected various universities that had research contracts
with ARPA. And then the universities set it up to connect with other
universites and companies they worked with.

At this point some of the colleges allowed friends to link their
systems to the net. By the early 80s (back when I first got on the net)
personal sites were actually getting to be not all that unusual. 

I could go on, but the basic fact remains that without a *lot* of
government and corporation effort we *wouldn't* have the net as we know
it.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:17:40 +1200
From: Steve Rennell <wulf@sea.southern.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Sunbeard 

Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au> wrote:

> Why didnt Deb pass the list onto Sunbeard in exchange for appropriate
> compensation ?

Because there is a difference from saying "I know you're up 
to something and could you please go away" and "I know 
you're up to something, and I'm prepared to give you 
blackmail leverage against me by offering to sell imperial 
data". I know police that look disgusted at dope smokers, 
and suggest that they "not be seen with it around here" 
without actually busting them. It doesn't mean they 
approve, just that the hassle factor of trying to do 
something about it is greater than is worthwhile to the 
Cop. 
 
> If Deb is not happy with a permanent retirement, he may want to pass a
> report up the line about Sunbeard. I'd assume that the bits of the IN or
> IISS who deal with suppressing piracy would be inclined to reward or
> promote people who helped crack pirate rings. 

But If Debs in in the IISS - they don't have ranks 
(according to the LBB and the T4 book) - how do 
you get promoted? Do you get shifted to a more important 
planet? Or get given a Scout/Courier when you leave so they 
can drag you back into the reserves next time there is a 
shooting war?

Besides, there was two scouts and a bunch of (probable) 
pirates. Debs gives them some excuse to believe that he 
suspects they're dodgy, but not enough to believe that Debs 
will dob them in (in a month or two when the courier gets 
back) so they don't need to torch the "scout base" to cover 
their tracks. 

(When you're a long way from backup, you don't necessarily 
make a big deal about somethings.)

Steve

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 08:31:21 -0400
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Martian Metal Minis for sale

I could contribute or buy a piece of the action based on what's decided.  I
would like to be in on the discussions if this is to be a large investment.
Thom

- -----Original Message-----
From: David J. Golden <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Martian Metal Minis for sale


>At 03:40 pm 6/30/98 -0400, you wrote:
>>I am posting this on behalf of a friend (please contact him directly
>at
>>rthomas@magicnet.net)
>>
>>
>>          Old Traveller Miniatures for Sale
>>
>>Hello fellow gamers. I have a number of old Traveller minis that
>have been
>
> Hmm ... molds destroyed==can't reproduce.
> Hmm ... certain TML members, at times, have indicated they cast
>their own figures.
> Hmm ... people want miniatures.
>
> HMM ... what are the chances of these miniatures finding their way
>to the above-referenced members, along with a request to MM* for
>permission to reproduce and sell?
>
>(*MM=Martian Metals in this context, not Marc Miller)
>-- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 07:41:33 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: 25mm Sci-Fi figures

The figures for Stargrunt II make good military figs.  since there are
several different armies, they can be used for different Traveller groups
(the New Anglican troops double as Imperials in my game.)

For adventures, some of the c-punk figures work well, especially a line
form Ral Partha called "Dark Futures."  I haven't seen it in the stores
recently, so it may have been dicontinued.
- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
jt- au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 11:44:20 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Ports and ship construction (CT)

In a message dated 7/2/98 23:07:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
nimrodd@fastlane.net writes:

<< Another thing that differentiates an A class from a B class starport is
 that an A class can build hulls with the lanthanum grid in them, which is a
 primary component of the jump drive.  B class starports can't.
  >>
I'm not exactly sure I can buy into that arguement either.  I kind of see it
like this:

I am using a computer that I put together myself.  I "built" it from purchased
components.  I assembled it, but I did  not MANUFACTURE it;  I don't have a
clue how computers actually work...but I can put one together with parts that
someone who DOES know how manufactured.  I see jump drives as being the same
way.

Dusty

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 12:14:37 EDT
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Armagedon

Anyone else seen it yet, or torn it apart for its hard (and/or broken, like
the explanation for the early debris) science?

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 13:17:11 -0400
From: Matthew Harelick <matth@CYBERNEX.NET>
Subject: Re: comparing the versions

What is LBB?


Don McKinney wrote:

> A discussion I had with with some gamers last night led to a question
> I thought I'd pose to the TML.
>
> Has anyone made comparisons of the versions of the game?  It might
> be useful to a newbie and make for a good FAQ...
>
> Comparing LBB to MT to TNE to T4 to GT...
>
> Character Generation
> Character Combat
> Starship Design
> Starship Combat
> Economics
> Experience
>
> Just a few places to start...
>
> DonM.
>
> --
> ==========================================================================
> = Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist             dmckinne@itds.com =
> = International Telecommunications Data Systems           (217) 239-8365 =
> = 2109 Fox Drive, Champaign, IL                           (217) 351-8250 =
> = Winter War XXVI Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 5-7, 1999 =
> = dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org     (217) 469-9917 =
> ==========================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 13:18:28 -0400
From: Matthew Harelick <matth@cybernex.net>
Subject: Re: TravSuite released as Shareware

But is there a way to feed a UPP to the map generator?


Simon Early wrote:

> > The map generator looked the most useful
>
> my thoughts as well.
>
> > although when I tried saving the map the software crashed
>
> same for me with Win 3.1, win 3.11 and Win 95
>
> Simon

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 13:24:44 EDT
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Color of Jumpspace

In re "What does Jumpspace look like":

<<<Keven wrote:
> I tell them it's the grey of a TV set on an empty channel.  Guess I was just
too
> influenced by Neuromancer...

I was surprised to learn that there are people who took 
that to mean that the sky was clear and blue - seems the youth of 
today are growing up with TV sets that bluescreen when 
there isn't a signal... 

sigh... The technology is changing all the similes.

Steve>>>

<sarcasm>
Tell them to close their eyes and jam their thumbs into their eyesockets.
That's what it looks like, plus the pain. 
</sarcasm

I always held the colors were a hallucination, and looking at it too long was
painful. Or that it was black and featureless. Or that it was the color of
that really tacky Pink fake fur they sell over at Mother Murphy's.

Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 10:35:11 -0700
From: "Dave Strebe" <strebe@intergate.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Armageddon

Yes, I saw it on July 1'st. I enjoyed it, but I and my family went to see
it to be entertained, not to pick it apart for it's science or lack of it.
So it did it's job in entertaining us, it was a little intense in spots,
sort of hang on to edge of your seat
lets see how much special effects your mind can handle. Science wise, well
it left a little to be desired in that respect.

Dave
- ----------
> From: GypsyComet@aol.com
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Armagedon
> Date: Friday, July 03, 1998 9:14 AM
> 
> Anyone else seen it yet, or torn it apart for its hard (and/or broken,
like
> the explanation for the early debris) science?
> 
> GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 13:40:00 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: comparing the versions 

> What is LBB?

The 'Little Black Book(s)', a.k.a., the original rulebooks for Traveller, sometimes refered to as 'Classic Traveller' or 'CT'.

I take it you started playing with MegaTraveller or TNE?

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 13:48:17 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Traveller Software

Does anybody have anything that would expand a star system a la WBH or GS or 
GC?  DOS or Linux source code would be cool.

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 14:36:11 -0400
From: "johannes" <johannes@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Armagedon

I'm giving it a miss, because the local reviewer tore it to pieces for it's
lousy plot.  I expect it'll be coming to video quicker than usual, and maybe
I'll rent it then.

John

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 11:57:38 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Armed merchants

02 Jul 1998 02:53:57 -0700, shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
>  Wait a second . I've been supporting the "opportunistic pirate" for
>some time, and I'll continue to do so until I'm convinced one way or
>another as to its' viability, but at the same time I can't see why I
>should conform to the "wandering monster table" approach to actual
>pirate attack frequency.

I agree.  The table in CT gives something like a 5% chance per jump.
that means a merchant could expect to get attacked by a pirate once
per year, which I regard as way too high.  However, I see the
table as more of a _PC_ encounter table, not a statement of
the actualy frequency of piracy.  My assumption has always been
that (with the exception of turbulent times, commerce raiding,
Vargr incursions, etc.) a merchant will likely go his entire
career without being attacked.  Assuming a 40 year career and
25 jumps per year, that is at most a 0.1% chance.

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 15:55:27 -0400
From: Matthew Harelick <matth@CYBERNEX.NET>
Subject: Re: comparing the versions

No, I started with the little black books. I have never heard it called that though, only
Classic Traveller or CT.  I still have my little black books.


Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:

> > What is LBB?
>
> The 'Little Black Book(s)', a.k.a., the original rulebooks for Traveller, sometimes refered to as 'Classic Traveller' or 'CT'.
>
> I take it you started playing with MegaTraveller or TNE?
>
> Keven
>
> --
> ==============================================================================
>           http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
> ==============================================================================
>  "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
>   the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
>   Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 22:00:07 +0100
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com>
Subject: Re: T4 Software

> You can find the QSDS, SSDS & the VDS (vehicle design system) at Ethan 
> Henry's page http://www.magmacom.com/~ehenry/traveller/

Actually, the QSDS link is broken and the other two links are just to
Joe Heck's web site. Credit where credit is due. :)

- --
Ethan Henry                                            egh@klg.com
Java Evangelist, KL Group                       http://www.klg.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 17:50:21 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Martian Metals Minis

Here's some bad news:

Subj:	 Re: Martian Metals Traveller 15mm. copyright and availability?
Date:	98-07-02 09:14:46 EDT
From:	rafmco@execulink.com (B. Van Schaik)
To:	Sethkimmel@aol.com

Sethkimmel
 You are right RAFM owns the only masters of these figures, but I've been here
since 1989 and at that time we were no longer producing the line for some
years.
Since you are talking about a sizeable order we could not possibly produce
them
for you in a legal manner as we are not licensed to do so. Plus we would have
to
search through our archives to find those moulds which would add some cost to
the
price of the packages.  I'm sorry we cannot provide you with the miniatures
that
you desire at this time. Possibly in the future these fine miniatures will
once
again be available but for now we can't be of assistance. You may post this to
the
news group.

Regards
B.Van Schaik

Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:

> To whom it may concern:
>
> I am trying to track down who has the molds (and rights to produce) the old
> Martian Metals 15mm. Traveller line. I have heard that you do. Is this true?
> If so; what size committal list would you need to produce a limited run of
> these figures (what I mean by this is a list of buyers who will Pre-commit
so
> you don't get stuck with them). I would also like your permission to copy
your
> answer to The Traveller List on Usenet.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Seth C. Kimmel

Now what?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 15:47:35 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Sunbeard

On 07/04/98 at 12:17 AM,  Steve Rennell <wulf@sea.southern.co.nz>
said:

>> Why didnt Deb pass the list onto Sunbeard in exchange for appropriate
>> compensation ?

>Because there is a difference from saying "I know you're up  to
>something and could you please go away" and "I know  you're up to
>something, and I'm prepared to give you  blackmail leverage against
>me by offering to sell imperial  data". I know police that look
>disgusted at dope smokers,  and suggest that they "not be seen with
>it around here"  without actually busting them. It doesn't mean they 
>approve, just that the hassle factor of trying to do 
>something about it is greater than is worthwhile to the  Cop. 
 
You'll also note that Deb had "forgotten" to reset the receiving
device, so that transponder signals were being received, but not
recorded...a most beneficial "oops" for a system that was off the
beaten path and needed most anything *anybody* cared to deliver.

Oh, and Deb, wasn't described as a Scout, that was Frito.  Deb was
probably just a local who was looking out for local interests.

Anyway, whether things would or wouldn't work like this IYTU is less
important than the wonderful adventure hooks stories like this provide
for everybody.  Can't you see setting your "legit" merchants down on a
world like Keanou Yentil, or having your scouts ordered to transport a
replacement for Frito there, or any of a dozen other things?

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 16:26:02 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Ports and ship construction (CT)

On 07/03/98 at 11:44 AM,  DustyLV769@aol.com said:

><< Another thing that differentiates an A class from a B class starport is
> that an A class can build hulls with the lanthanum grid in them,
>which is a primary component of the jump drive.  B class starports can't.

>I'm not exactly sure I can buy into that arguement either.  I kind of
>see it like this:

>I am using a computer that I put together myself.  I "built" it from
>purchased components.  I assembled it, but I did  not MANUFACTURE it; 
>I don't have a clue how computers actually work...but I can put one
>together with parts that someone who DOES know how manufactured.  I
>see jump drives as being the same way.

That's how I see it. IMTU...

"A" ports are where shipyards that routinely build starships and
non-starships exist, and *usually* facilities exist locally to
manufacture all the components needed.  In some cases, the components
are imported from elsewhere, but even so the locals have experience
designing and building starships.  This is where you would expect to
find new Stock starships (20% discount) for sale, and higher-quality
used starship lots.

"B" ports are where there are yards that routinely build
non-starships, but don't *routinely* build starships.  Components to
repair or upgrade starships are usually available, generally as
imports, but designing or building a starship isn't a normal function
of the local yards.  They can build you one from their stock of
components...usually, but it will take longer and cost more than at an
"A" yard.  You would probably be limited to a few, older, very common
ship designs, and you'd still have to pay custom rates. Here you can
find lower-quality used starship lots.

"C" ports have repair facilities, at least for *most* things on a
starship, but usually there aren't local yards that build spaceships.
That isn't universally true, but local yards at "C" ports are pretty
rare, and limited to building a few small spaceships.  It's possible
that if several non-functional ships were available they could be
cannibalized to refit one working starship, but it would be a
staggering task for a typical "C" type port.  Finding any kind of
starship available for sale around a "C" port would be a true rarity.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 18:23:28 -0400
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: Martian Metals Minis

At 05:48 PM 7/3/98 -0500, Seth wrote:
<Snip>...
> You are right RAFM owns the only masters of these figures, but I've been
here
>since 1989 and at that time we were no longer producing the line for some
>years...
<Snip>...
>> I am trying to track down who has the molds (and rights to produce) the old
>> Martian Metals 15mm. Traveller line. I have heard that you do. Is this
true?...

Weird!  I know for a fact that RAFM once also produced the old Citadel 15mm
Traveller line because I placed a hefty order for the things from RAFM in
1988.  They told me then that I should order all I was likely ever to need
because the figures were not in production & that they were shipping from
warehouse stock.  I'm looking at a bag of 'em right now - Stiker Set #11
_Terrorist/Guerilla Unit_, and the card says _Citadel 15mm_ and also bears
the RAFM sword logo with _RAFM_ below...  

Is it possible, Mr. Shaik refers, unknowingly, to the Citadel range and NOT
the Martian Metals' range (as they were out of production long before he
got there and, after all, both ranges WERE 15mm Traveller types!)?  I hope
not, as I'd REALLY like to see the stuff produced, but that's what I fear...




Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #628
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com

Traveller-digest       Saturday, July 4 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 629



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Armagedon
Re: Shouldn't we be dead? (was Re: Supernovas)
Toys For Little Macho Types
25mm Traveller Figures
re: IN Sting Operation
The Liberation of Colchis
Re: Armagedon
Re: 25mm Traveller Figures 
Re: IN Sting Operation 
Re: The Liberation of Colchis 
re: The Liberation of Colchis
Bestiary Software?
Re: The Liberation of Colchis 
T4 Software, Thanks
Re: Armagedon
HIWG/TML CD contents, long part 1

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 23:37:05 GMT
From: johnl@vnet.net (John Lansford)
Subject: Re: Armagedon

On Fri, 3 Jul 1998 12:14:37 EDT, you wrote:

>Anyone else seen it yet, or torn it apart for its hard (and/or broken, like
>the explanation for the early debris) science?

I saw it and thought it an excellent movie. What few glitches along
the way in no way detracted from the exciting and engaging plot.
 The outcome was of course not an issue, but the movie was nonetheless
very enjoyable.

The reviews I've read appear to have been written by people who hate
action movies, and whenever they pan a movie I've found those are the
ones I enjoy the most.

John Lansford

The unofficial I-26 Construction Webpage:
http://users.vnet.net/lansford/a10/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 20:16:40 EDT
From: JLAROSEE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Shouldn't we be dead? (was Re: Supernovas)

Hi-
   I bounced this supernova thing off a friend of mine (happens to be in
nuclear physics as well as being a fellow Traveller) and attach his reply for
comment and discussion: 

Although I'm not sure what the "lethal range" of a supernova is, it will be
a function of its initial mass and possible the proportion of nuclear
catalyst such as carbon (the last bit tends to be speculative). If lethal
means total planetary sterilization, then are talking about events that
will turn the surface into a magma sea. In this case the distances you have
quoted are likely to be over estimated by a factor of at least 100 if not
more. If your talking about an event that will kill everything down to ten
meters in the earth then we are likely talking about an overestimation of
about 10 fold. If your talking about a dose of 400 rads (the typical LD50
for mammals and interpreted by most people as the lethal dose) to
organisms in the open air at high altitudes, then I might believe those
figures. In any case, the radiative pulse from a supernova is very quick,
i.e., about four hours, and thus only half the planet will be irradiated.
If you take into account atmospheric scatter, sky shine, then about 2/3
will get nailed. The important point is that a significant fraction of the
biosphere would survive. It would require two supernovae to reduce a
planets biosphere back down to bacteria only and that is if you don't count
the oasis of life around deep sea hydro thermal vents.

As to Travelers, I suspect that the imperium has had to deal with the
problem of supernovae at least once. I think it would be a pretty sticky
situation where people would know that a supernova was possible in their
sector but its likelihood was one in a thousand. Then the star begins a
process that people realize will end in a supernova in just a few years or
months. Would wars break out to possess the deepest mines or the best
tunneling equipment? Hmmm... sounds like a scenario could be built from
this.

Let's see what you all think
    Jay LaRosee

  

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 19:34:33 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net>
Subject: Toys For Little Macho Types

Allrighty then we here at Reddkneck Arms and Munitions (RAAM) would like to
present a line of T4 compatible "Shooting Irons" for just about every occasion
that might present itself. 

The first selection will be of small "Shooting Irons" ie pistols or
handguns to
you PC(political correct) types.

All weapons have gone thru an extensive testing on low law levels worlds and
some high law level worlds in and near the Imperium.

All "Shooting Irons" have a double money back guarantee, if you live to tell
about it, just deliver the defective "Shooting Iron" and yourself to our
factory and we will make it right. When you get here go past the mono wire
fence to the Complaint Department and Firing Range, where one of our
*Complaint
Specialist* will deal with you.

All pistols are using binary propellants using RAAM's exclusive technology and
research techniques.

Here they come the TL-12 holdouts in a two barrel and a four barreled versions

This is the two barreled version using binary propellants. Configuration is a
over/under arrangement of the barrels.
                                         Empty     Price  Mag   Signa-
Weapon Name   TL   Ammo         Length   Mass Kg   Wpn    Cap   Ture
Holdout-2     12   10mm Binary  13cm     1.0       359    2     Low
                  Ammo   Price   Max
Ammo Type   Dmg   Mass   Ammo    Range
Slug        3     0.0    0.5     V.Short
HEAT        5     0.0    1       V.Short
Max Loaded Wt   1.1
Computer Rating  1
Dedicated        Y

Here is there four barreled version. Barrels are double over/under
arrangement.

                                         Empty     Price  Mag   Signa-
Weapon Name   TL   Ammo         Length   Mass Kg   Wpn    Cap   Ture
Holdout-4     12   10mm Binary  13cm     1.5       564    4     Low
                  Ammo   Price   Max
Ammo Type   Dmg   Mass   Ammo    Range
Slug        3     0.0    0.5     V.Short
HEAT        5     0.0    1       V.Short
Max Loaded Wt   1.6
Computer Rating  1
Dedicated        Y

The computers are used to control the binary feed of ammunition. Also 13 cm is
5.1 inches, the round comes out at 382 meters per sec, or about 1200 feet per
sec, at 14.41 gram round, talk about a kick! Nick name them the Knuckle
Breakers<G>. Reloading is performed via a break open action like a shotgun. 

                                         Empty     Price  Mag   Signa-
Weapon Name   TL   Ammo         Length   Mass Kg   Wpn    Cap   Ture
AutoPistol    12   10mm Binary  28cm     1.7       1436   15    Low
                  Ammo   Price   Max
Ammo Type   Dmg   Mass   Ammo    Range
Slug        3     .2     3       Short
HEAT        5     .07    13      Short
Max Loaded Wt:  2.0       Magazine Type:  Clip
Computer Rating  1       Velocity m/sec: 398 
Dedicated        Y       Bullet Mass:    14.41
Laser Sight      Y
Gyrostabilzation Y

                                         Empty     Price  Mag   Signa-
Weapon Name   TL   Ammo         Length   Mass Kg   Wpn    Cap   Ture
Magnum AutoP    12    10mm Binary    30.4cm    2.5         1829    20
Medium
                  Ammo   Price   Max
Ammo Type   Dmg   Mass   Ammo    Range
Slug        4     .3     6       Short
HEAT        5     .09    29      Short
Max Loaded Wt:  2.9       Magazine Type:  Clip
Computer Rating  1       Velocity m/sec: 598 
Dedicated        Y       Bullet Mass:    14.41
Laser Sight      Y
Gyrostabilzation Y

                                         Empty     Price  Mag   Signa-
Weapon Name   TL   Ammo         Length   Mass Kg   Wpn    Cap   Ture
Target Magnum   12    10mm Binary    30.4cm    2.5        2799    20
Medium
                  Ammo   Price   Max
Ammo Type   Dmg   Mass   Ammo    Range
Slug        4     .3     6       Medium
HEAT        5     .09    29      Medium
Max Loaded Wt:  2.9       Magazine Type:  Clip
Computer Rating  1       Velocity m/sec: 598 
Dedicated        Y       Bullet Mass:    14.41
Laser Sight      Y       Inherent Accuracy: +1
Gyrostabilzation Y

                                         Empty     Price  Mag   Signa-
Weapon Name   TL   Ammo         Length   Mass Kg   Wpn    Cap   Ture
SuperMag AP     12    10mm Binary    32cm      3.8        5580    20     High
                  Ammo   Price   Max
Ammo Type   Dmg   Mass   Ammo    Range
Slug        5     .3     8       Short
AP          6/3   .3     25      Short
Max Loaded Wt:  4.2       Magazine Type:  Clip
Computer Rating  1       Velocity m/sec: 898 
Dedicated        Y       Bullet Mass:    14.41
Laser Sight      Y       Inherent Accuracy: 0
Gyrostabilzation Y
ElectroThermal   Y

                                         Empty     Price  Mag   Signa-
Weapon Name   TL   Ammo         Length   Mass Kg   Wpn    Cap   Ture
SuperMag Target 12    10mm Binary    32cm      7.5        13,140   20     High
                  Ammo   Price   Max
Ammo Type   Dmg   Mass   Ammo    Range
Slug        5     .4     8       Medium
AP          6/3   .4     25      Medium
Max Loaded Wt:  7.9       Magazine Type:  Clip
Computer Rating  1       Velocity m/sec: 898 
Dedicated        Y       Bullet Mass:    14.41
Laser Sight      Y       Inherent Accuracy: +2
Gyrostabilzation Y
ElectroThermal   Y

That all for now.

Sinbad Sam
Sinbad@hex.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 21:43:25 EDT
From: WmByrne33@aol.com
Subject: 25mm Traveller Figures

I'm a miniatures collector, and the recent traffic on the 15mm and 25mm
subject has renewned my trust in the posibility of decent figures being made
availble once more.  I would like to focus on the 25mm front.  If my history
is correct, just as GDW was implodeing.  Rafm had released a number of
Traveller New Era products.  They released ships and some figure blisters.
Marines, Aslan Mercs. Robots, Grav bike and Techs, These are still availble..
However, they were just releasing some addtion  figures.  

The planed figures were:
5850 Coalition/ship crew
5851 Traders and Merchants
5854 Mercenaries-Traveller
5855 Nobles- Traveller
5856 Scouts/Surveyors- Traveller
5857 Planetary Grenadiers - Traveller
5861 Coalition Landing Party- Traveller

I will get to the point.  I called Rafm's  800 number and they said that these
were produced, but were mail order only because of the demise of GDW.  The bad
news is that figures are out of production and sold out.  However, according
to the woman on the phone they still had the molds and were looking to buy the
license for a production run. 

With the death of Imperium this process must be even more convoluted.  There
is a market for Sci-Fi figures. So, why can't we get any?  Old Greniadier
Traveller boxed set are going for a premium, so let apply some market pressure
and get urge Marc Miller to license some figures from Rafm or PArtha or
Reaper.  

I know that there are substitues, Stone Mountain, Table Top Miniatures, Ral
PArtha, Fading Suns, and some more I can think of.  I want normal figures.  No
spiked hair or huge guns.  I know there is someone reading this and shaking
there head in disblief at my quest for relative normality.  But how many Han
Solo figures can you have on the gaming table at one.  Blue Han run and Red
Han shoots. Its a nightmare. 

 I have had a player and a chat room debator  frothing at mouth declearing
normality of fading suns figs.  If you want to play a 250 pound, S&M gimp with
nipple rings, go for it, just don't be surprised when "BO" calls you sweetie
and has you squeal like a pig.   I'm a Role Player, but I have my limits.

We need 25mm figs that are supported by the Traveller, with GURPS coming out
and the eventual release of a More Sci-Fi games.  It should be easy to produce
normal 25mm figs and have them sell.  

Will 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 19:45:32 -0400
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: re: IN Sting Operation

Ian Whitchurch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
This is one of the great dilemnas of intelligence - you want people shifty
enough to be good at their jobs, but honest enough to always be on your
side ... actually, it smells far more like an IISS plan, rather than like a
IN plan.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Gotcha - the IN's idea of a sting operation would be to put a 100-tn
Meson Bay in a Free Trader. <g>

Ian again:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hmmmm. Not impossible, but I'd say it's more likely that it's the starport
owner or manager who could pull this off - at the least, you'd need a
forged receipt from BuStarships, or whoever it is that issues transponder
codes, and some way of switching funds from the 'Pay BuStarships' 
account to the 'Pay Me' account.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Yes, white-collar crime is a wonderful thing. What I envisioned was a
minor clerk (or perhaps underpaid computer operator) who had enough
access to enter a list of transponder codes into the "cleared for use"
list wherever transponders are activated. I saw this as happening at
the shipyard (considering how integral to the ship a transponder is,
by some descriptions on the TML), but I suppose transponder encoding
and activation could be the last step of a Starship New-Build Certification
procedure that an Imperial inspector performs at the nearest starport.
The greedy clerk adds the codes to the list, and debits the operating
fund of the shipyard the expected amount to cover the new transponder
codes. He redirected the money to himself, shared some with "Lefty",
and skipped planet before an audit could turn up the screwy paper trail.
Move the identity of the bad guy up the ladder until you have someone
with the access/authority to do this, but realize that for every Vice
President there are a dozen assistants who can probably forge his
signature and read his email.

Ian again:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>The sector office of the Imperial Navy hunts around for
>a scapegoat, and Lt. Mitisky spends the rest of his career piloting a
>one-man scout on the Zhodani border.

Depends if it is an actual on-orders operation, or something dreamed up by
some rogue lieutenant.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
While the "rogue lieutenant" idea provides a nice closure point for a
scenario, realize the Sector Admiral will be more than happy to toss
Lt. Mitisky to the wolves if it will placate a noble angered by an
intelligence op gone bad. "One of our agents, operating on his own.
Terribly out of bounds. He's been court marshalled, trust me..."

Meanwhile, the PC rolling up Lt. Mitisky looks up from his re-enlistment
roll of three and says, "Drat. Why did the navy cashier my character?"


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 21:43:53 -0400
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: The Liberation of Colchis

Ian Whitchurch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I'll bite. Why not sell the ship, and use that to fund the Revolution, or
sign on as a mercenary cruiser, and use the funds so raised to fund the
good fight ?

I'd need to go through the detail on the Rules of War, but I'd imagine the
hands-off Imperial attitude to planetary governments also applies to a
hands-off attitude to off-world rebels.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Captain Kinzarid here, I'll answer this dirtfoot.

Why didn't we sell Wespirr Miranta? We could trust no one, and you want
us to trade our only warship in for a pile of credits? With the Miranta we
had a base of operations, and a weapon with which to strike back at
those upstart Technarchs. Not to mention that as far as those Impie
devils were concerned, we were flying stolen property - owned by the
Supreme Colchis Technarch Council, all right and legal, complete with
requests for notification and return of stolen property. Our first show
in a port where we could sell her, or our first attempt to get a Starmerc
license, and we'd probably lose our ship to the repo men...or have to
leave their blood on the soil of some Impie port.

I can see how these Technarchs got this coup to work - they were
cunning, attended to details. The Families had gotten soft in the wake
of their successes in assuring the peaceful future of Colchis. What did
they do with my family's estate, I wonder? Turn it into farmland? 
Divide my father's lands up among the underclass?

I'm a starship captain, of a warship - maybe not a fancy Battleship or
Strike Cruiser, but a warship just the same. They took my estate, my
career, even my world away from me - but by my blood and name, 
they'll not take this away from me as well.


Author's note: the "rebels" aren't always the good guys. Looks
like Colchis was a self-perpetuating oligarchy which got overthrown
by a popular uprising, and some scions of the old upper class
were off-world when it happened - perhaps only the rich and powerful
of Colchis could get their sons and daughters the appointments to the
Interstellar Flotilla. When the revolution came, these few hundred people
and twenty ships or so had, literally, nowhere to go. Their fortunes
(both on-planet and off) were seized, they went from being wealthy
sons of priveledge playing at navy officers to being penniless, bitter
paupers with nothing but a handful of stolen patrol ship and a hatred
of the new rulers of Colchis. And once their arrogance lead them to
run their own private war against Colchis, with interstellar spacelanes
as their battlefield, it was only a matter of time before they attracted the
attention of the Imperium.

Their little flotilla ws scattered, they were no dissidents or legitimate
Colchis Government-in-Exile - they were Pirates. By the time ships with
the IN Starburst ran sweeps through Colchis subsector, the last remnants
of the old Colchis ruling class were marked men who would be hunted
for the rest of their lives. In chunks large and small, these men who once
had a world at their feet lost everything that was ever important to them.
In the process, their bitterness spread from the Technarchs of Colchis
to the Imperium that they feel abandoned them.

Perhaps, by the time the fuel of bitter hatred runs out, they will have
found a way to survive in the frontiers of known space, or even to
prosper. Most of them will be dead by then, their ships lying broken
in salvage yards throughout the Sector...those that weren't smashed
to unrecoverable junk.

One source of pirates, the losers of a war. Another source can be
the unwanted warships that belong to the victor...

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 22:35:39 -0400
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Armagedon

John Lansford wrote:

> On Fri, 3 Jul 1998 12:14:37 EDT, you wrote:
>
> >Anyone else seen it yet, or torn it apart for its hard (and/or broken, like
> >the explanation for the early debris) science?
>
> I saw it and thought it an excellent movie. What few glitches along
> the way in no way detracted from the exciting and engaging plot.
>  The outcome was of course not an issue, but the movie was nonetheless
> very enjoyable.
>
> The reviews I've read appear to have been written by people who hate
> action movies, and whenever they pan a movie I've found those are the
> ones I enjoy the most.

I've got to agree with this whole heartedly.  For God's Sake people!  Lighten
up!  go and watch it to be entertained.  If you want to critique something, pull
out an astrophysics book or something.

Personally, it almost brought tears to my eyes a couple times.  But so did
Mulan... maybe I'm just getting soft in my old age.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 23:18:22 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: 25mm Traveller Figures 

> I will get to the point.  I called Rafm's  800 number and they said that these
> were produced, but were mail order only because of the demise of GDW.  The bad
> news is that figures are out of production and sold out.  However, according
> to the woman on the phone they still had the molds and were looking to buy the
> license for a production run. 

I'd think that the licensing fees for this stuff should be paid to Far Future 
Enterprises or whatever holding company Marc chooses to set up.  Seems to me, 
this would help Marc pay his bills.  Have any miniatures manufacturers 
bothered to *ask* Marc if they can put out a new line?

> With the death of Imperium this process must be even more convoluted.  There
> is a market for Sci-Fi figures. So, why can't we get any?  Old Greniadier
> Traveller boxed set are going for a premium, so let apply some market pressure
> and get urge Marc Miller to license some figures from Rafm or PArtha or
> Reaper.  

There's a market for this stuff, as the recent offering of Letters of Marque 
showed.  And I have *ZERO* problem with Marc making money, too.  Keeping him 
alive means we'll eventually see more Traveller stuff in the future.  <grin>

> I know that there are substitues, Stone Mountain, Table Top Miniatures, Ral
> PArtha, Fading Suns, and some more I can think of.  I want normal figures.  No
> spiked hair or huge guns.  I know there is someone reading this and shaking
> there head in disblief at my quest for relative normality.  But how many Han
> Solo figures can you have on the gaming table at one.  Blue Han run and Red
> Han shoots. Its a nightmare. 



> We need 25mm figs that are supported by the Traveller, with GURPS coming out
> and the eventual release of a More Sci-Fi games.  It should be easy to produce
> normal 25mm figs and have them sell.  

I, for one, would be interested in 25mm figures for Striker (the *OLD* version, dammit!!!), since my current roomie is a wargaming buff just *DYING* to get introduced to the sand table.  <evil grin>  

Personally, I could care less *what* is being released for GURPS.  Played it once, didn't care for it.  A 'Swiss Army ruleset' isn't my thing.  And I consider G:T to be more of a 'missionary tract' than Traveller per se.

Keven
- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 23:25:44 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: IN Sting Operation 

> Gotcha - the IN's idea of a sting operation would be to put a 100-tn
> Meson Bay in a Free Trader. <g>

Even if you could shoehorn it in, what you gonna use to power it?  <Why do I 
get the feeling I'm gonna regret asking that??>

> Ian again:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >The sector office of the Imperial Navy hunts around for
> >a scapegoat, and Lt. Mitisky spends the rest of his career piloting a
> >one-man scout on the Zhodani border.
> 
> Depends if it is an actual on-orders operation, or something dreamed up by
> some rogue lieutenant.

Even on-orders ops get blown.  And you can bet yer last credit that if it is, 
the Secretary will disavow any knowledge, etc, etc, etc.  That's how things 
work out here in the real world.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> While the "rogue lieutenant" idea provides a nice closure point for a
> scenario, realize the Sector Admiral will be more than happy to toss
> Lt. Mitisky to the wolves if it will placate a noble angered by an
> intelligence op gone bad. "One of our agents, operating on his own.
> Terribly out of bounds. He's been court marshalled, trust me..."

Can you say 'coverup'?

> Meanwhile, the PC rolling up Lt. Mitisky looks up from his re-enlistment
> roll of three and says, "Drat. Why did the navy cashier my character?"

They might not have cashiered him.  They *might* have just invited him to work for ONI 'off the books'.  <grin>  It's been done before, I know...

Keven
- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 23:31:05 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: The Liberation of Colchis 

[whole article deleted for space]

How come the crew of the Wespirr Miranta just head out of Impy space when 
things got too hot for them and 'star viking' themselves up a colony to 
prepare for the eventual invasion & overthrowing of the Colchis Techarchy?  
This would have gotten them out without Imperial interference and allowed them 
to set up a government in exile not subject to the Imperium.  All they would 
have to do is make damned sure their paperwork trail was clean.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...  Sounds almost like a nugget for a world writeup...

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:11:40 -0400
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: re: The Liberation of Colchis

Kevin R. Pittsinger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
How come the crew of the Wespirr Miranta just head out of Impy space when 
things got too hot for them and 'star viking' themselves up a colony to 
prepare for the eventual invasion & overthrowing of the Colchis Techarchy?  
This would have gotten them out without Imperial interference and allowed them 
to set up a government in exile not subject to the Imperium.  All they would 
have to do is make damned sure their paperwork trail was clean.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...  Sounds almost like a nugget for a world writeup...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Well, to begin with there were probably less than twenty of them.
Not a lot to start a colony with. And many of them had a mad on
against these upstart usurpers, wanted to hurt them *now* instead
of 100 years from now. 

Some people would call the stereotypical "pirate base" (a hollowed
asteroid nobody knows about) a "government in exile not subject
to the Imperium". At least until an Imperial patrol finds it...


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 23:36:39 -0500
From: "Pearson Publishing" <jdpearson@wr.net>
Subject: Bestiary Software?

We've been talking (and seeing) about some really great software for
Traveller lately (i.e. the Traveller Suite).  I'm looking for a bestiary
designer.  Anyone have/know of any?

 -- James Pearson
"The purpose of a referee is to present obstacles 
for players to overcome as they go about seeking 
their goals, not to constantly make trouble for them.
This is a very subtle distinction ..."

The Traveller Book, p. 12

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/4089

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 01:15:45 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: The Liberation of Colchis 

> Kevin R. Pittsinger wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> How come the crew of the Wespirr Miranta just head out of Impy space when 
> things got too hot for them and 'star viking' themselves up a colony to 
> prepare for the eventual invasion & overthrowing of the Colchis Techarchy?  
> This would have gotten them out without Imperial interference and allowed them 
> to set up a government in exile not subject to the Imperium.  All they would 
> have to do is make damned sure their paperwork trail was clean.
> 
> Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...  Sounds almost like a nugget for a world writeup...
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Well, to begin with there were probably less than twenty of them.
> Not a lot to start a colony with. And many of them had a mad on
> against these upstart usurpers, wanted to hurt them *now* instead
> of 100 years from now. 

How big is the boat, anyways?  And wouldn't the dethroned gov pull a Marcos & 
head out of town quick with the treasury, or as much as they could get their 
hands on?  And what of their interstellar neighbors, who the Old Regime has 
been trading with since way the hell back when *before* there was an Imperium 
raking off all those tax credits that could be put to better use restoring 
palaces^H^H^H^Hhistorical landmarks?  Those people knew who was running things 
before the People's Revolution, and probably want their money back that's 
still out in loans.  Odds are, the Techarchy isn't going to get much support 
from *them* unless the money keeps on coming.

I find the concept that only *one* Loyalist ship would desert to be a bit 
weak. After all, if I was running an oligarchy, I'd make sure the whole damned 
*Fleet* was officered by sons & daughters of loyal Party members, thus having 
a vested interest in keeping the status quo.

And a couple million credits from a couple of Colchis' miniscule fleet of 
subbies taken over by the Loyalist Fleet would go a long ways toward financing 
an Ine Givar-style terrorist organisation against the Techarchs.  Considering 
the Old Regime is stuck making the payments on these puppies, it probably 
could get away with calling the 'piratical' action of liberating the subbies 
from the New Regime as 'repossession'.  As long as the bank still got paid, 
why should they care *whose* flag the subbies now fly under?  Odd are, the 
interstellar neighbors would only be *too* happy to reflag and reregister any 
boats the Old Regime cared to pull into their ports.  Can you say 'legit merc 
cruiser'?  With a success-only ticket from the Colchis gov in exile to support 
the Contras?

> Some people would call the stereotypical "pirate base" (a hollowed
> asteroid nobody knows about) a "government in exile not subject
> to the Imperium". At least until an Imperial patrol finds it...

Naw.  They'd prolly be living on their neighbor's planet, spending the treasury and complaining mightily about how unfair the Techarchy was in throwing them out to where they might concievably have to *WORK* for a living!!

Damn, I'm coming up with some nuggets here...

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 22:21:13 -0700
From: Skoal <skoal@mail.gci-net.com>
Subject: T4 Software, Thanks

Thanks
for all the help with the software.



Skoal
Marana, Az

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 02:30:17 -0700
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Armagedon

John Lansford wrote:

> On Fri, 3 Jul 1998 12:14:37 EDT, you wrote:
>
> >Anyone else seen it yet, or torn it apart for its hard (and/or broken, like
> >the explanation for the early debris) science?
>
> I saw it and thought it an excellent movie. What few glitches along
> the way in no way detracted from the exciting and engaging plot.
>  The outcome was of course not an issue, but the movie was nonetheless
> very enjoyable.

My quickie review:  Standard, dead-head, action movie sprinkled with tid-bits of
touching moments.

I found myself yawning a lot.  Yeah, yeah, yeah, blah, blah, blah...then I'd get
chocked up for a second...but only for one second...then it was back to the
yeah, yeah, blah, blah stuff.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 04:31:29 EDT
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: HIWG/TML CD contents, long part 1

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	IMPERIUM EPS
	LING     EPS
	NAARIRKA EPS
	NAASLOGO EPS
	OBERLIND EPS
	OBERLINE EPS
	OFFICE   EPS
	SCOUT    EPS
	SHIELD   EPS
	SIMPERM  EPS
	SURVEY   EPS
	SHATTERE EPS
	SOLOMANI TIF
	SDB5X    TIF
	SHATIMP  TIF
	PLANETD  GIF
	Q-IV     DOC
	Q-IV1115 BMP
	HIWGLOGO TIF
	IMPERIUM TIF
	MARGARET TIF
	NORRIS   TIF
	ASLAN    TIF
	DULINOR  TIF
	VARGR    TIF
	ZHODANE  TIF
	TYPEEL15 1
	TYPEEL15 2
	TYPEEL15 3
	TYPEEL15 4
	TYPEVA13
	YUGOBOX        <DIR>
	SYMBOLS        <DIR>
	ANTACH         <DIR>
EQUIPMEN       <DIR>
	199-03   TXT
	199-04   TXT
	199-05   TXT
	199-06   TXT
	199-09   TXT
	199-11   TXT
	199-13   TXT
	199-14   TXT
	199-15   TXT
	199-16   TXT
	199-17   TXT
	AIROBOT2 ASC
	BODMARL  TXT
	LASSCALP TXT
	LITESABR TXT
	MARL     TXT
	PAINT    TXT
	ROBOT2   ASC
	BERTIL
ERRATA         <DIR>
	T4ERRATA HTM
	COACCERR WP
	ERRATA   WP
	TNE_ERR  TXT
	TNE-ERR  TXT
	RSB      ERR
	WBHINDEX TXT
FACTS          <DIR>
	ANCTSITE TXT	List of Ancient Sites
	ASLANCLN TXT	List of Aslan clans
	RACELIST TXT	Race List
	RACE     TXT	Race List
	MR_2     TXT	Race List
	MR_LIST  TXT	Race List
	MEGACORP RTF	Megacorporate list
	MEGACORP TXT	Megacorporate list
FANZINE        <DIR>
	AR01_01  WP	Alien Realms #1.1, wordperfect format
	AR01_02  WP	Alien Realms #1.2, wordperfect format
	AR01_03  WP	Alien Realms #1.3, wordperfect format
	AR01_04  WP	Alien Realms #1.4, wordperfect format
	AR02_01  WP	Alien Realms #2.1, wordperfect format
	AR02_02  WP	Alien Realms #2.2, wordperfect format
	AR02_03  WP	Alien Realms #2.3, wordperfect format
	AR02_04  WP	Alien Realms #2.4, wordperfect format
	AR03_01  WP	Alien Realms #3.1, wordperfect format
	AR03_02  WP	Alien Realms #3.2, wordperfect format
	AR03_03  WP	Alien Realms #3.3, wordperfect format
	SS&V1_01 WP	Starships, Starports & Vehicles #1.01, wordperfect format
	SS&V1_02 WP	Starships, Starports & Vehicles #1.02, wordperfect format
	SS&V1_03 WP	Starships, Starports & Vehicles #1.03, wordperfect format
	SS&V1_04 WP	Starships, Starports & Vehicles #1.04, wordperfect format
	SS&V1_05 WP	Starships, Starports & Vehicles #1.05, wordperfect format
	SS&V1_06 WP	Starships, Starports & Vehicles #1.06, wordperfect format
	SS&V1_07 WP	Starships, Starports & Vehicles #1.07, wordperfect format
	SS&V1_08 WP	Starships, Starports & Vehicles #1.08, wordperfect format
	SS&V1_09 WP	Starships, Starports & Vehicles #1.09, wordperfect format
	SS&V1_10 WP	Starships, Starports & Vehicles #1.10, wordperfect format
	SS&V1_11 WP	Starships, Starports & Vehicles #1.11, wordperfect format
	SS&V1_12 WP	Starships, Starports & Vehicles #1.12, wordperfect format
	SS&V2_01 WP	Starships, Starports & Vehicles #2.1, wordperfect format
	SS&V2_02 WP	Starships, Starports & Vehicles #2.2, wordperfect format
	SS&V2_03 WP	Starships, Starports & Vehicles #2.3, wordperfect format
	SS&V2_04 WP	Starships, Starports & Vehicles #2.4, wordperfect format
	SS&V3_01 WP	Starships, Starports & Vehicles #3.1, wordperfect format
	SS&V3_02 WP	Starships, Starports & Vehicles #3.2, wordperfect format
FORMS          <DIR>	Forms
	REPAT    FRM	Repatriation form
	XMSG     FRM	Xboat Message form
	CHARSHEE GIF	Character sheet
	CHARSHEE JPG
	XMSG     RTF	Xboat message form
	CALENDAR RTF	Imperial Calendar
	EQUIP    RTF	Equipment Form
	EQUIP    PDF	Equipment Form Sheet
	EQUIPSHT PDF	Equipment Form Sheet
	XIMAGE   RTF	Xboat Image Form
	REPAT    RTF	Repatriation form
HOUSRULE       <DIR>
	ARMOR    PRN	Combat Armor Construction rules for MT
	COMBAT   PRN	Combat Armor damage rules for MT
	HELICOPT FFS	Helicopter Construction fixes for FF&S
HIWGDOCS       <DIR>	HIWG Documents
	0001     TXT	Guide to HIWGing
	1104     TXT	Rebellion Sourcebook Corrections
	1301     TXT	Concise History of the Third Imperium
	1302     TXT	Concise History of the Terran Period
	1303     TXT	Concise History of the Vilani Period
	1401     TXT	Economic Data
	1502     TXT	Esig Charter
	1701     TXT	Thoughts on Starship Design, MT
	1702     TXT	Thoughts on Starship Design, MT
	1703_V3  TXT	Ship Designs, MT
	1902     TXT	Yes, but what are Psionics exactly
	3103     TXT	Vargr Attacks on Corridor
	3104     TXT	Duke Rehman in the Rebellion
	3105     TXT	Five Personalities of Corridor
	3106     TXT	First Thoughts on Corridor
	3107     TXT	Corridor Chronicles
	3108     TXT	Midrift Refueling Stations
	3109     TXT	Whatever happened to Admiral Marsh
	3111     TXT	Corridor Events
	3201     TXT	Vland Astrography
	3303     TXT	S'mrii Word Generation Tables
	3304     TXT	KARYN DEA VIISARIKAA
	3305     TXT	MTA: The S'mrii
	3309     TXT	Sector Developer's Notes: 1 (Medurma/Dagudashaag)
	3311     TXT	"FOXCUBS", mercenary unit
	3312     TXT	The Hoxlian Religion
	3401     TXT	Gushemege - Random Notes and Questions
	3402     TXT	Who is the "Real" Strephon
	3403     TXT	What is the Lancian Culture?
	3404     TXT	GUSHEMEGE: SECOND THOUGHTS
	3405     TXT	GUSHEMEGE SECTOR MAP
	3406     TXT	Taapvaia Subsector Summary
	3407     TXT	Languages of Gushemege
	3408     TXT	Sector Duke Kirshaam Miikadgaa and His Family
	3409     TXT	GUSHEMEGE BIOGRAPHICAL DICTIONARY
	3410     TXT	FORTUNE 12: MAJOR CORPORATIONS OF GUSHEMEGE
	3411     TXT	The Fleets of Gushemege
	3412     TXT	Tansa Subsector Summary
	3413     TXT	CONTACT: LANCIANS
	3414     TXT	The Gushemege Archipelago
	3415     TXT	Rure subsector
	3417     TXT	Travel Companies of Gushemege
	3418     TXT	Academic Institutions of Gushemege
	3419     TXT	Computer Augmented Behavoiral Alteration (CABAl)
	40_01    TXT	Dirty Deeds of the Rebellion
	4101     TXT	Ilelish Sector
	4103     TXT	Power Delineations in the Ilelish Sector
	4104     TXT	Lavender Industries
	4105     TXT	TNS report (?)
	4106     TXT	Duke Davenparkk - Important Ilelish Personality
	4201     TXT	Zarushagar Sector 1116-1119
	4202     TXT	Vengeance Fleet Report
	4203     TXT	Corporate Zarushagar
	4204     TXT	Future History: 1120 and Beyond
	4205     TXT	Personalities of Zarushagar
	4206     TXT	The IISS Goes to War- Rev 0
	4207     TXT	Library Data
	4208     TXT	Corporate Zarushagar
	4209     TXT	Quick Reference to Nobles and Fleets
	4210     TXT	Chronology of the Rebellion in Zarushagar: 1116-1119
	4211     TXT	Selected Mercenary Units
	4212     TXT	System Survey: Depot/Zarushagar
	4212_1   TXT	System: Depot/Zarushagar
	4212_2   TXT	Depot/Zarushagar
	4213     TXT	News Briefs 2
	4215     TXT	Library Data (unknown format)
	4C_1116  UWP
	4C_1128  UWP
	4C_1200  UWP
	5302     TXT	THE FALL AND RISE OF TEPHANY
	5303     TXT	A Brief History of Lishun
	5306     TXT	The Irhadre Minor Human Race
	5307     TXT	Lishun News - Annual Summary (1122)
	5B01     SEC	SIDIADL Sector Data
	6F09     TXT	Contact: Tirrils
	6F0A     IFF
	6F0A     TXT	Gvurrdon (0112)
	6G01     TXT	Tuglikki Sector
	6I01     TXT	Windhorn Sector
	7401     TXT	Alpha Crucis Sector
	7B01     TXT	The Tsadra Sector & Tsadra Davr Sector Timeline
	7C01     TXT	MegaTraveller Alien Module: The Talpaku (HD 7C01)
	7C02     TXT	HIWG Doc 7C02 - Talpaku Subsector (Yiklerzdanzh subsector I) -
1200
	7C03     TXT	HIWG Doc 7C03 - String of Pearls Subsector (Yiklerzdanzh M) -
1201
	8D01     TXT	Vanguard Reaches Library Data
	_001_01  TXT	GRAND EXPLORATIONS
	_005_01  TXT	ALLEGIANCE CODES
	_032_01  TXT	"Cold" Nuclear Fusion: Striker Implications
	_032_02  TXT	Nuclear Fusion Reactor System
	_032_03  TXT	Yes, But What are Psionics, Exactly?
	_040_01  TXT	Dirty Deeds of the Rebellion
	_044_01  TXT	ECONOMIC SURVEY DATA
	_044_02  TXT	Economic Survey Data
	_052_01  TXT	Non-Imperial MegaCorporations
	_052_02  TXT	Compiled World Names
	_052_03  TXT	Supernovae - Stellar Death
	_052_04  TXT	Vland's Reply to "What the Vargr Center Wants"
	_052_05  TXT	Interstellar Economics 101
	_052_06  TXT	Imperial Navy Commands
	_052_07  TXT	Fleet Strengths
	_057_01  TXT	What the Vargr Center Wants
	_092_01  TXT	Darmine Working Paper
	_103_01  TXT	ALUN DESIGNS
	_119_01  TXT	VARGR HUNTER SHIP
	_119_02  TXT	FLEET SHIPS 3.0
	_119_03  TXT	MERCHANT SHIPS 2.0
	_126_01  TXT	Preliminary discussion paper on computer generation of cities
	_130_01  TXT	Reticulan Parasite, MT version
	_130_02  TXT	In Support of Empress Margaret
	_142_01  TXT	Vilani StrikeRons
	_142_02  TXT	Alternate Starship Combat Rules
	_142_03  TXT	Alternate starship combat rules (second draft)
	_142_04  TXT	SDB fleets, how do they work? (second draft)
	_142_09  TXT	Thoughts for starships in future Traveller. V1.00
	_142_10  TXT	Imperial Navy Handbook Support Document
	_142_11  TXT	Stutterwarp in Traveller
	_142_12  TXT	The Ralton Scenario.
	_142_13  RTF
	_142_13  TXT	Starship Weapons
	_142_14  TXT	BUILDING THE PERFECT DOG
	_142_15  TXT	Hand Weapons for TNE
	_142_16  TXT	HAVE STARSHIP--WILL TRAVEL
	_142_17  TXT	POINT DEFENSE RULES FOR BRILLIANT LANCES
	_142_19  TXT	SENSOR RULES FOR TRAVELLER
	_142_20  DOC
	_166_01  TXT	The Communications Society
	_166_02  TXT	Lucan's effect on the Imperial Navy
	_166_04  TXT	The Brotherhood Of Varian
	_166_05  TXT	Counterinsurgency
	_166_06  TXT	Hospital Ships and the Cool Hand Incident
	_166_07  TXT	The Solomani in Geneering?
	_166_08  TXT	The Brotherhood of Varian, more thoughts
	_167_01  TXT	Imperial Shipping
	_174_01  TXT	German Edition of Traveller
	_177_01A TXT	Subsector N: ARGI
	_177_01B TXT	Worlds of Argi subsector
	_177_02A TXT	The Scania
	_177_02B TXT	Akiva
	_177_03  TXT	Gateway
	_177_04  TXT	Uaam
	_177_05  TXT	"Gone Fishin'.."
	_180_01  TXT	Contact: Ontauru
	_181_01  TXT	The Solomani Confederation Navy
	_181_02  TXT	GRAVITICS V FUSION ROCKETS
	_181_03  TXT	FIRE AND WATER-Gateway
	_181_04  TXT	How Do You Use Grav Tanks?
	_181_05  TXT	RAPID COLD START FOR TL16 FUSION POWER PLANTS
	_181_06  TXT	STEALTH FOR MEGATRAVELLER
	_181_07  TXT	The Solomani Confederation Army
	_181_10  TXT	Mass Driver Design (revamped)
	_181_11  TXT	Tactical Nuclear Weapons
	_181_12  TXT	Tactical Missiles
	_181_14  TXT	A LOOK AT ARMOUR FACINGS
	_181_15  TXT	A Consideration of the Economic and Political Situation in the 
			Post 2nd Imperial Civil War Era
	_181_16  TXT	The Solomani Rim 001-1129 Sector UWP for "Hard Times"
	_181_17  TXT	Alternate High Tech Personal Weapon Systems
	_181_18  TXT	The Solomani Confederation in the wake of the Solomani War of
Reunification
	_181_19  TXT	1115 Data for subsectors around Sparta
	_181_20  TXT	1201 Data FORNAST subsectors M,N and O (outside of Black
Curtain)
	_181_21  TXT	SPARTA SYSTEM DATA
	_181_22  TXT	SPARTA PLANETARY DATA
	_181_23  TXT	SPARTAN HEGEMONY TIME LINE
	_181_24  TXT	GOVERNMENT OF THE SPARTAN HEGEMONY
	_181_25  TXT	THE FUTURE OF THE SPARTAN HEGEMONY
	_181_26  TXT	THE ARMED FORCES OF THE SPARTAN HEGEMONY
	_181_27  TXT	PERSONALTIES OF THE SPARTAN HEGEMONY
	_181_28  TXT	1215 Data, CORE subsector P (outside of Black Curtain)
	_181_29  TXT	1115 Data, CORE subsector P (outside of Black Curtain)
	_181_30  TXT	CHARACTER GENERATION WITHIN THE SPARTAN HEGEMONY
	_181_31  TXT	INFORMATION AND LIBRARY DATA ON SUBSECTORS IN 1201
	_181_32  TXT	INFANTRY WEAPONS AND ARMOUR OF THE SPARTAN HEGEMONY
	_181_33  TXT	STANDARD SHIP MOUNTED WEAPONS USED BY THE SPARTAN HEGEMONY
	_181_34  TXT	GENERAL EXPLANATORY NOTES FOR THE SPARTAN HEGEMONY
	_181_35  TXT	VEHICLES AND HEAVY WEAPONS OF THE SPARTAN HEGEMONY
	_181_37  TXT	1201 Data for Delphi Sector
	_181_38  TXT	A PLAYER'S INTRODUCTION TO THE SPARTAN HEGEMONY
	_181_39  TXT	ORGANISATION OF THE ARMED FORCES OF THE SPARTAN HEGEMONY
	_199_10  TXT	Lee's Guide to Interstellar Adventure, Volume 2
	_199_12  TXT	Amulet
	_206_02  TXT	Location of Droyne and Chirper Worlds
	_208_01  TXT	HD208-01 The Solomani in Aldebaran
	_224_01  TXT	History of the DZHAGSER (Zhodani Plagues)
	_224_02  TXT	The Final War and the DZHAGTLAS (The Great Plague/Death)
	_224_02A TXT	The Final War and the DZHAGTLAS (The Great Plague/Death),
revised
	_224_03  TXT	Overview of the Zhodani Consulate
	_224_04  TXT	Phases of Zhodani Exploration and Expansion
	_224_05  TXT	TIMETABLE           Part I
	_224_06  TXT	Background on the Province of Meqlemianz
	_224_07  TXT	Zhodani Ships Troops (Variant)
	_224_09  TXT	SIDIADL Sector: Background Data
	_224_10  TXT	Standard Turret Weapons
	_224_11  TXT	The Development of Zhetl (the Zhodani Language)
	_224_12  TXT	A Study of the Qiknavrats Language.
	_224_13  TXT	DROYNE GLOSSARY
	_224_14  TXT	A Study of Military Shipbuilding
	_224_14A TXT	A Study of Military Shipbuilding
	_224_15  TXT	The Role of Depots in Naval Strategy
	_224_16  TXT	The Evolution of the CA-14 Cruiser Class
	_224_17  TXT	Commentary on the Imperial Navy
	_224_17A TXT	Commentary on the Imperial Navy
	_224_18  TXT	Spinal Mount Weapon Production
	_224_22  TXT	Dead Fall Ordnance (or How to Throw Rocks).
	_224_24  TXT	System Defense Forces: Colonial Squadrons and SDB
	_224_25  TXT	The Navy of the Darrian Confederation.
	_231_01  ASC	Virus 'Ecology' Discussion Document & The New Sentient Order Of
The Universe?
	_231_01  RTF
	_245_01  ASC	Meshan Scenario Concepts Virus Discussion Document
	_245_01  RTF
	A001     TXT
	AAB01    TXT
	AAB02    TXT
	AAB03    TXT
	AAB04    TXT
	AAB06    TXT
	AAB07    TXT
	AAB10    TXT
	AS01     TXT
	BLANK    MAP
	COACCERR TXT
	COMPHACK TXT
	ERRATA   TXT
	ESIG     TXT
	GRAVBALL TXT
	INDEX    TXT
	L001     TXT	Lucan's Lieutenants
	Q1_MAP   TXT
	QUOTE50  TXT
	R006     TXT	MILITARY POLICIES
	REGINA   MAP
	RR01     TXT	History of the Rift Republic
	RR02     TXT	Grand Strategy: Reft/Gushemege Prepared by the Rift Republic
University of Robotics, 215-1118
	RR03     TXT	The Rift Republic (Revised)
	RV01     TXT	Outbreak of the Rebellion
	RV03     TXT	Vilani Culture: Working Notes
	RV06     TXT	MILITARY POLICIES
	RV07     TXT	Vilani Intelligence Activities
	SL01     TXT	TERRAN PHYSIOLOGY, Solomani working papers
	SL02     TXT	Solomani History
	SL03     TXT	CONFEDERATION GOVERNMENT
	SL04     TXT	SOLOMANI RELIGIONS
	SL05     TXT	SOLOMANI CONFEDERATION MILITARY
	SL06     TXT	SOLOMANI TECHNOLOGY AND CORPORATIONS
	SL07     TXT	LANGUAGE IN THE SOLOMANI SPHERE
	SL08     TXT	THE ASTRAMANI
	SL09     TXT	THE SOLOMANI HIGH COUNCIL - PERSONALITY PROFILES
	SW01     TXT	"Real" Strephon is a Clone
	SW02     TXT	Who is the "Real" Strephon
	SW03     TXT	Strephon's Lieutenants
	SW04     TXT	Gushemege CSB Activities
	TTECH    TXT
	WBHINDEX TXT
	HIWG142  TXT
	6F01     TXT	Gvurrdon Sector codes, and UWP codes. TNE update.
	6F02     TXT	Kforuzeng, the return of the space wolfs.
	6F03     TXT	Commonality of Kedzudh, The warmongering state.
	6F04     TXT	Thirz Empire, The "client state" to Zhodani.
	6F05     TXT	Gvurrdon sector library data.
	6F06     TXT	Rukh, a short overview of this Zhodani friendly state
	6F07     TXT	Society of Equals, or George Orwell 5600AD
	6F08     TXT	Oruelaen, psionic forces of Thirz Empire
	6F0B     TXT	The groups of Gvurrdon as per 1200 Imperial
	6F0C     TXT	Aliens of Gvurrdon Sector
	6F0D     TXT	Travelling in Gvurrdon Sector
	6F0E     TXT	Gvurrdon Sector TNE update
	7C04     TXT	The Vlazhdumecta Izrats Kriezhlas
	7C05     TXT	Stellar Chorus Subsector
	7C06     TXT	The Carillon
	7C08     TXT	Rom's Loch (Yiklerzdanzh Subsector P)
	7C09V6   TXT
	7C09V9B  TXT
	7C10     TXT	Dlarashtsalash ‘ Subsector N of Yiklerzdanzh
	7C12V4   TXT
	7C12V5   TXT
	7C14B    GIF
	7C14C    GIF
	7C15     GIF
	7C17     TXT	Pieflip System (Yiklerzdanzh 0323) - 1200
	7C19     TXT	Yiklerzdanzh Sector Library Data
	7C20     TXT	The S'raak War
	7C21     TXT	Contact: Meichntid Ibl
	8D01     WP 
	X224_20  TXT	ANCIENT SITES
	X224_26  TXT	The Zhodani Consular Guard
	X224_30  TXT	The Chirpers of Brayn
	X224_31  TXT	Plague Ship
	VIRUS_01 TXT
	VIRUS_02 TXT
HIST_IMP       <DIR>
	HISTORY  RTF	History of the Universe
IG             <DIR>
	IG_NEWS  001
	IG_NEWS  003
	IG_NEWS  004
	IG_NEWS  005
	IG_NEWS  006
	IG_NEWS  007
	IG_NEWS  008
	IG_NEWS  009
	IG_NEWS  010
	IG_NEWS  011
	IG_NEWS  012
	IG_NEWS  013
	IG_NEWS  014
	IG_NEWS  015
	IG_NEWS  016
INDEX          <DIR>
	JOURNAL  TXT
	FANZINES
	TRAV-BIB TXT
IRCCHAT        <DIR>	Text from the IRC chats
	DIPVDES  TXT
	ECO101   TXT	Economy 101
	MEDICINE TXT	Medicine
	PBEM     TXT	Play-by-Email
	PE-WT    TXT	Pocket Empire/World Tamers
	PLANET~1 TXT	Planetology 101
	PRIVACY  TXT	
	WHATTRAV TXT	What's Traveller
LANGUAGE       <DIR>
	LANGUAGE VIL
LIBDATA        <DIR>
	LIBDATA  TXT
	A        TXT
	ANTARES  TXT
	B        TXT
	C        TXT
	CORRIDOR TXT
	D        TXT
	DAGUDASH TXT
	DAIBEI   TXT
	DELPHI   TXT
	DENEB    TXT
	DIASPORA TXT
	DNEBULA  TXT
	E        TXT
	EALIY    TXT
	EMPTY    TXT
	F        TXT
	FARFRONT TXT
	FOREVEN  TXT
	G        TXT
	GUSHMEGE TXT
	GVURRDON TXT
	H        TXT
	HINTER   TXT
	HLAKHOI  TXT
	I        TXT
	ILELISH  TXT
	J        TXT
	K        TXT
	L        TXT
	LISHUN   TXT
	M        TXT
	MAGYAR   TXT
	MASSILIA TXT
	MESHAN   TXT
	N        TXT
	O        TXT
	OLDEXP   TXT
	P        TXT
	PROVENCE TXT
	Q        TXT
	R        TXT
	REAVERS  TXT
	REFT     TXT
	RIFTSPAN TXT
	S        TXT
	SOLOMANI TXT
	SPINMAR  TXT
	T        TXT
	TLAUKHU  TXT
	TROJAN   TXT
	TUGLIKKI TXT
	U        TXT
	V        TXT
	VLAND    TXT
	W        TXT
	CORE     TXT
	WINDHORN TXT
	X        TXT
	Y        TXT
	Z        TXT
	ZARUSH   TXT
	WP             <DIR>
MESHAN         <DIR>	HIWG Meshan files
	MESH_02  TXT
	MESH_03  TXT
	MESH_04  TXT
	MESH_05  TXT
	MESH_06  TXT
	MESH_07  TXT
	MESH_08  TXT
	MESH1100 SEC
	MESH1120 SEC
MESHSAGA       <DIR>	HIWG-NZ fanzine
	TMS1     PDF
	TMS3     PDF
	TMS3A    PDF
	TMS4     PDF
	TMS5     PDF
	TMS6     PDF
	TMS2     PDF
	TMS7     PDF
NEARSTAR       <DIR>	Near Star Catalog
	CNS3     DOC
	GLIESE1  DBF
Q&A            <DIR>
	Q&A      TXT
QSDS           <DIR>
	BIGHULLS TXT
	QSDS     HTM
	QSDS-X2  TXT
	QSDS15A  HTM
QUAD_ONE       <DIR>
	ALIKASCH TXT
	ANTARES  TXT
	CORRIDOR TXT
	CYBER    TXT
	DAGUDASH SEC
	DAGUDASH TXT
	DAIBEI   TXT
	DELPHI   TXT
	DENEB    TXT
	DIASPORA TXT
	DNEBULA  TXT
	EALIY    TXT
	EMPTY    TXT
	FARFRONT TXT
	FOREVEN  TXT
	GUSHMEGE TXT
	GVURRDON TXT
	HINTER   TXT
	HLAKHOI  TXT
	ILELISH  TXT
	LISHUN   TXT
	MACHIN16 TXT
	MAGYAR   TXT
	MASSILIA TXT
	MESHAN   TXT
	OLDEXP   TXT
	POC_MEDU TXT
	PROVENCE TXT
	Q1_MAP   TXT
	README   TXT
	REAVERS  TXT
	REFT     TXT
	RIFTSPAN TXT
	SOLOMANI TXT
	THETA2   NOT
	THETA3   NOT
	THETA4   NOT
	THETA5   NOT
	THETA6   NOT
	THETASHI PS
	TROJAN   TXT
	TUGLIKKI TXT
	VLAND    TXT
	WINDHORN TXT
	ZARUSH   TXT
POCKT_EM       <DIR>	Pocket Empire files, plus some extra by Derek Stanley
	00010250 TXT
	02510350 TXT
	03510425 TXT
	04260675 TXT
	06260825 TXT
	08261050 TXT
	10511325 TXT
	13261550 TXT
	15511850 TXT
	18512250 TXT
	22512851 TXT
	AORRER~1 PS
	AORRER~2 PS
	AORRER~3 PS
	AORRER~4 PS
	CARRIL~1 TXT
	COREDATA TXT
	CORREL~1 TXT
	FIDELITY PS
	PPRINV~1 TXT
	PENDANG  TXT
	OUTLINE  TXT
	README   TXT
	SYSTEMDT TXT
	WHOFILE  TXT
	TNE_0001 TXT
	TNE_0026 TXT
	TNE_0051 TXT
	TNE_0076 TXT
	TNE_0101 TXT
	TNE_0126 TXT
	TNE_0151 TXT
	TNE_0176 TXT
	TNE_0201 TXT
	TNE_0226 TXT
	TNE_0251 TXT
	TNE_0276 TXT
	TNE_0301 TXT
	TNE_0326 TXT
	TNE_0351 TXT
	TNE_0376 TXT
	TNE_0401 TXT
	TNE_0426 TXT
	TNE_0451 TXT
	TNE_0476 TXT
	TNE_0501 TXT
	TNE_0526 TXT
	TNE_0551 TXT
	TNE_0576 TXT
	TNE_0601 TXT
	TNE_0626 TXT
	TNE_0651 TXT
	TNE_0676 TXT
	TNE_0701 TXT
	TNE_0726 TXT
	TNE_0751 TXT
	TNE_0776 TXT
	TNE_0801 TXT
	TNE_0826 TXT
	TNE_0851 TXT
	TNE_0876 TXT
	TNE_0901 TXT
	TNE_0926 TXT
	TNE_0951 TXT
	TNE_0976 TXT
	TNE_1001 TXT
	TNE_1026 TXT
	TNE_1051 TXT
	TNE_1076 TXT
	TNE_1101 TXT
	TNE_1126 TXT
	TNE_1151 TXT
	TNE_1176 TXT
	TNE_1201 TXT
	TNE_1226 TXT
	TNE_1251 TXT
	TNE_1276 TXT
	TNE_1301 TXT
	TNE_1326 TXT
	TNE_1351 TXT
	TNE_1376 TXT
	TNE_1401 TXT
	TNE_1426 TXT
	TNE_1451 TXT
	TNE_1476 TXT
	TNE_1501 TXT
	TNE_1526 TXT
	TNE_1551 TXT
	TNE_1576 TXT
	TNE_1601 TXT
	TNE_1626 TXT
	TNE_1651 TXT
	TNE_1676 TXT
	TNE_1701 TXT
	TNE_1726 TXT
	TNE_1751 TXT
	TNE_1776 TXT
	TNE_1801 TXT
	TNE_1826 TXT
	TNE_1851 TXT
	TNE_1876 TXT
	TNE_1901 TXT
	TNE_1926 TXT
	TNE_1951 TXT
	TNE_1976 TXT
	TNE_2001 TXT
	TNE_2026 TXT
	TNE_2051 TXT
	TNE_2076 TXT
	TNE_2101 TXT
	TNE_2126 TXT
	TNE_2151 TXT
	TNE_2176 TXT
	TNE_2201 TXT
	TNE_2226 TXT
	TNE_2251 TXT
	TNE_2276 TXT
	TNE_2301 TXT
	TNE_2326 TXT
	TNE_2351 TXT
	TNE_2376 TXT
	TNE_2401 TXT
	TNE_2426 TXT
	TNE_2451 TXT
	TNE_2476 TXT
	TNE_2501 TXT
	TNE_2526 TXT
	TNE_2551 TXT
	TNE_2576 TXT
	TNE_2601 TXT
	TNE_2626 TXT
	TNE_2651 TXT
	TNE_2676 TXT
	TNE_2701 TXT
	TNE_2726 TXT
	TNE_2751 TXT
	TNE_2776 TXT
	TNE_2801 TXT
	TNE_2826 TXT
	GHOSTIES WRI
	NEWS     DOC
	ORIG     DOC
	ORIG     DSC
	ORIGINAL DOC
	FIDELITY PS1
	HAVEN    DOC
	HOS-C1   DOC
	INFONET  DOC
	INFONET  DSC
SCIENCE        <DIR>
	BEANSTLK       <DIR>	Discussion papers on Beanstalk Construction
	TRANSHUM TXT	References for Human augmentation, genetic and cyber
	SPDRIVE1 TXT	FTL drives
	SPDRIVE2 TXT	FTL drives
	SPDRIVE3 TXT	FTL drives
	SPDRIVE4 TXT	FTL drives
SECTOR         <DIR>
	1120           <DIR>
	1200           <DIR>
	BEYOND         <DIR>
	DAIBEI         <DIR>
	REGENCY        <DIR>
	RGNC1200       <DIR>
	VLAND          <DIR>
	SEC            <DIR>
	ALPHACRU SEC
	AMDUKAN  SEC
	AMDUKAN1 SEC
	ANTARES  SEC
	BITMAPS  DOC
	CORE     NSC
	CORE     SEC
	CORRIDOR SEC
	DAGUDASH SEC
	DAIBEI   NSC
	DAIBEI   SEC
	DARKNEB
	DELPHI   SEC
	DENEB    SEC
	DIASPORA SEC
	EALIYA   UWP
	EMPQRTR  SEC
	FORNAST  NSC
	FORNAST  SEC
	GLIMMER  SEC
	GUSHEMEG NSC
	GUSHEMEG SEC
	GUSHMEGE SEC
	HINTER   SEC
	LEY      SEC
	LIBSTAR
	LISHUN   SEC
	MAP-KIT  ZIP
	MASSILIA NSC
	MASSILIA SEC
	MENDAN   SEC
	MESHAN   SEC
	OLDEXP   SEC
	RANGEHEX
	REAVERS  SEC
	REFT     SEC
	RIFTSPAN NSC
	RIFTSPAN SEC
	S13X6    BMP
	SOLOMANI SEC
	SPICA    NSC
	SPICA    SEC
	SPINWARD SEC
	SUBSEC   NAM
	TIENSPEV SEC
	TROJAN   NSC
	TROJAN   SEC
	VERGE    SEC
	VLAND    SEC
	ZHDANT   SEC
	SUBS_CRB TXT
	SUBS_CRB WK1
	SUBS_CRB WP 
	SUBS_LG  TXT
	SUBS_SB  TXT
	TRAVSS   GIF
	TTNESSEC GIF
	MASSILIA TXT
	MASSILIA WP 
	SOLORIM  TXT
	SUB__CRB TXT
	SECTOR   AI 
	SECTOR   EPS
	SECTOR   WMF
	SECTOR   CDR
	SUBSECT  AI 
	SUBSECT  CDR
	SUBSECT  EPS
	SUBSECT  WMF

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #629
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Saturday, July 4 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 630



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

HIWG/TML CD list, long, part 2
Re: HIWG/TML CD contents, long part 1
re: comparing the versions
Re: TravSuite released as Shareware
Re: 25mm Traveller Figures
Re: Shouldn't we be dead? (was Re: Supernovas)
Re: IN Sting Operation

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 04:33:25 EDT
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: HIWG/TML CD list, long, part 2

SHAREWAR       <DIR>
	IBM            <DIR>
		CC2            <DIR>	Campaign Cartographer Demo
		CHARSKTH       <DIR>	Character Drawing Program
		MAPIT          <DIR>
		MAPCAD         <DIR>
		MAPMAKER       <DIR>
		MEGASHIP       <DIR>	Megatraveller Ship Designer
		MEGAWRLD       <DIR>	Megatraveller World Generator
		REFGEN         <DIR>	MT Character Generator
		RGS            <DIR>	MT Character Generator
		STGVIEW        <DIR>	
		WORLDGEN       <DIR>	World Generator
		WEATHER        <DIR>	Weather Generator
		UNIVERSE       <DIR>
	MAC            <DIR>
		INFINI~1 HQX
		ROB_PR~1 HTM
SHIPS          <DIR>
	MT             <DIR>
	TNE            <DIR>
	T4             <DIR>
SPREADSH       <DIR>
	TNESHEET       <DIR>
	FF-S1          <DIR>
	CITY           <DIR>
	TNE-SS         <DIR>
	TRADLT97       <DIR>
	CARGO    XLS	Cargo Generator
	CRAFT12  WK1
	GAUSGUNX WB1
	GAUSS    XLS
	GUN-V081 XLS
	KOORS    FM3	A set of Imperium Economic Work Sheets
	KOORS    FMT		"
	KOORS    WK1		"
	KOORS    WK3		"
	KOORS    WKS		"
	NECS     TXT
	PASSENGR XLS	Passenger Generator
	PLANET   WK1
	PLANET   XLS
	PLANET_W XLS
	QSDHULL  XLS
	QSDS10   XLS
	SHIP     TXT
	SPINWARD XLS
	SS-WEAP  XLS
	SSWD     XLS
	STARPORT SIT
	STARS-V1 XLS
	STARSHIP TXT
	TL11     WK1	MT TL11	design spreadsheet
	TL12     WK1	MT TL12 design spreadsheet
	TL13     WK1	MT TL13 design spreadsheet
	TL14     WK1	MT TL14 design spreadsheet
	TL15     FM3	MT TL15 design spreadsheet
	TL15     WK1	MT TL15 design spreadsheet
	TL15     WKS	MT TL15 design spreadsheet
	TL_SS    NTS
	TRAV41   XLS
	TRAV42   XLS
	TTNECS   XLS
	TTNESHIP XLS
	VEHICLES XLS
	WEAPONS  XLS
	WORLDGEN WK1
	CHARGEN  XLS
	CHARSHT  XLS
	SHIPS    WKS
SOFTWARE       <DIR>
	ATARI          <DIR>
		BCG            <DIR>
		BESTIA51       <DIR>
		BNF            <DIR>
	The BNF program grew out of my interest in the Backus Naur form for
describing computer languages.  This is a very powerful recursive
description of how the elements of a language can fit together.
	My initial interest was to write a program that would write
syntactically correct programs at random.  This didn't quite work out
but it left we with some routines for defining and replacing text
patterns to give a random output.  I expanded these and produced BNF
as a quick way of prototyping output.
	I will try and illustrate it's use by looking at an example, the
creation of a UPP for a Mega-Traveller character (a fuller version is
given as an example in npc.bnf).
		FINDER         <DIR>
		GENESIS2       <DIR>
		IMGSHOW        <DIR>
		ITINERY        <DIR>
		SHENC03        <DIR>
		WORDGEN        <DIR>
		CULTURE  STR
		CULTURE  TTP
		CULTURE  TXT
		HAZARD   STR
		HAZARD   TTP
		HAZARD   TXT
		PSYCHE   STR
		PSYCHE   TTP
		PSYCHE   TXT
		RELIGION STR
		RELIGION TTP
		RELIGION TXT
		SOCIETY  STR
		SOCIETY  TTP
		SOCIETY  TXT
	HARDTIME       <DIR>
	IBM            <DIR>
		ACCRETE        <DIR>
		ACCRETE2       <DIR>
		ACCRETE3       <DIR>
	ACCRETE2 is a DOS-based update to ACCRETE, a simulation that generates solar
systems after randomly determining a solar mass.  What I have done is given
the user the ability to choose a solar luminosity and mass, providing a
greater flexibility for the program.  The original sourcecode appeared to be
K&R C, which I rewrote and converted to ANSI C++  (compiled with Borland C++
4.52, compatible with BC++ 4.xx).  This change will allow me to make a more
robust program/database at a later time.
		BNF07          <DIR>
		CHARGEN1       <DIR>	Character Generator (MT)
	This program was intended primarily as an aid to player character generation
using the basic character generation system, however it has been modified to
allow random PC generation (for NPC's) and RANDOM generation of a specific
character.

		CHARGEN2       <DIR>	Character Generator
		CHARGEN3       <DIR>	Character Generator
		CHARGEN4       <DIR>	Character Generator
		CHARGEN5       <DIR>	Character Generator
		CHARSKTH       <DIR>	Character Sketcher
		DATABASE       <DIR>
		EXTEND         <DIR> Includes source code
    describe - describe planets in 'English'.
    match - find planets within a sector.
    extend - extend the planet to solar system.
    distance - distance between planets.
    radius - close planets to starting point.
    broker - advice on best markets from planet.
    cargo - show cargos available on planet.
    ephemeris - position of planets in solar system.
    itinery - plot a route between planets in a sector.
		FINDER         <DIR>
		ITINERY        <DIR>	Itinery program
		ISLAND         <DIR>
		GAL23          <DIR>	Galactic 2.3 (waiting on 2.4)
		GALBUILD       <DIR>
		GDWPROG        <DIR>
		GENESIS        <DIR>
     Genesis was designed to relieve the TRAVELLER gamemaster from the tedious
development of a TRAVELLER universe by randomly creating the systems.  The
referee may then view the maps and systems, move systems about, create or
reconstruct areas on the maps, display and edit characteristics of the
systems,
print out the characteristics (for the players' or referee's use), and type
text about the systems into 'scratch-pads' that can be viewed at a later time.
		GENESIS2       <DIR>
	The program used to generate profiles for worlds that have 
World Builder profiles with "Native Life Exists".
		GIZMO          <DIR>
		GRAPHIT        <DIR>
		HEXMAP         <DIR>
		HEX31          <DIR>
	This software is designed to produce subsector maps for Megatraveller. It
uses
input files generated by another of our programs, the Imperial Atlas database,
but the standard sector listings provided by GDW and available from CompuServe
can probably also be used. A couple of sample files are included, illustrating
the format.
		LIBRARY        <DIR>	Library Program
		MT1DEMO        <DIR>	MegaTraveller 1 Demo
		MT2DEMO        <DIR>	MegaTraveller 2 Demo
		MTGMAID        <DIR>	MegaTraveller GM Aid
		NAVIGATO       <DIR>	Traveller Navigator Software
		OTSYS          <DIR>
		SECVIEW        <DIR>	Sector Viewer
This is the first public beta release of the Traveller Sector Viewer. This
program is designed to allow people to view sector and subsector UWP listings
in map form. The graphics of this program were designed to approximate closely
those found on GDW's map of the Spinward Marches. Thus water worlds are blue,
worlds with no water are white. The same is for the rest of the symbols.
		STAR10         <DIR>
		STAR           <DIR>
		SYSGEN         <DIR>	Includes C source code
SYSGEN1 xx yy zz
       This is the level one system generation program. It produces basic
mainworld information.

SYSGEN2 xx yy zz
       This is the level two system generation program. It produces extended
system information.

SYSGEN3 xx yy zz
       This is the level three system generation program. It produces
information comparable with world builder's handbook.

SYSGEN4 xx yy zz PlanetName
       This is the level four system generation program. It produces
surface maps for a planet. It prints a high level map on the screen then
asks which triangle to expand. The triangles are numbered as in (A)

TTIMES xx yy zz
       This program computes the travel times between planets of the
star at the given system. It only computes them for the top layer though.

DETPRINT xx yy zz PlanetName
       This prints out level 3 details on a planet in English. Included are
physical stats, principal cities, local customs, local religion, law levels,
tech levels and hex row seasonal temperatures.

ORIGIN xx yy zz NumberPeople
       This is for finding origins of NPCs. You give it a system and the
number of origin planets to find. It first calculates the total population
from the vacininy then randomly selects planets based on population. It uses
the level 2 figures for the entire system to determine population.

SCANNER xx yy zz
       This is a simple interactive region examining program. It uses the
ANSI clear screen command. While in it the keys X, x, Y, y, Z, z shift along
the given axis. a, A, or + transpose amongst the three axis. The screen
maintains the level 1 info on the center system. 2 and 3 print the level 2
and level 3 information. Q quits the program.
       Really primitive.

TIMTBL xx yy zz time
       This prints a timetable for departing ships for a given system. The
time is measured in days and is an arbitrary number. The data is in the
following format:
The Franhe (Arnelia) out of Sosen (9985 9981 10012)
       Departing 10 for Mouthit (9999 9998 10004)
       26 High berths 2 booked, 3 standby
       7 Low berths 2 booked

The _name_of_ship_ (_owning_corporation_) out of _origin_ (_coords_)
       Departing _day_ for _dest_ (_coords_)
       _total_ High berths _n_ booked [i.e. high passage], _n_ standby [i.e.
middle passage]
       _n_ Low berths _n_ booked
The closer a ships gets to its departure date the fuller it will be. I used
it for a simple PBM game over the net that withered away.

SCAN xx yy zz
       This is really just a shell to search outward for whatever you want.
At the moment it prints where it is when a key is pressed and otherwise
searches for the mythical planet "Polo". Unless you are actually searching
for Polo you want to modify the program. It uses level 1 information but
that is easily changed (with the expense of speed). I have used it to look
for water worlds, high governments, etc... [see also capital].

NAME xx yy zz NumNames
       This uses the languages tables for the given system to produce
names. It produces as many names as given but the default is one.

HEXMAP xx yy zz time
       This is for producing a standard 15,000 mile per hex space map
for the area surrounding a planet. The time is optional to give settings
for the satelites. It doesn't seem to work for all planets correctly.
It first asks for the planet, then prints a list of the satelites and what
page they would appear on. It then asks for the number of pages wide and long.
It writes to the specified file in strips. Each is designed to fit on your
standard 8" paper in condenced mode. The strips can then be seperated and
taped together for your battle map.
       Try tracing the routes of the ships in coloured pencil as the
battle progresses. We did once and it was really worthwhile. Just like the
tatical maps in Star Wars!

PRMAP xx yy zz PlanetName
       This prints a triangle map of a planet surface. It prompts for a
file name to store the result in. It is straight ascii. It will ask for
a triangle, specifier and size. See sysgen4 for an explanation of what
these mean.

EPMAP xx yy zz PlanetName
       If under MS-DOS this prints a map to the PRN port. If under UNIX
you will want to change the line in the file or else a file called PRN will
be created. The graphics are printed with standard Epson FX-80 compatable
outputs. It will ask for a triangle, specifier and size. See sysgen4 for
an explanation of what these mean.

TCMAP xx yy zz PlanetName
       This is completely analagous to PRMAP except it prints the output
on the screen. It is only compilable under TurboC.

SECPRNT xx yy zz
       This prints a 10x10x10 "sector" starting with the coordinates given.
It uses Epson FX-80 compatable escape sequences for italics, and underligning
(to indicate POP of worlds). Waits for a keypress between pages.

CAPITAL xx yy zz
       This is similar to scan except it searches a 10x10x10 "sector" starting
with the coordinates given. It was originally used to determine the best
planet
as a captial for a "sector". The current example searches for the highest tech
level. It uses level-1 information.
		STGVIEW        <DIR>
		TNE_CHAR       <DIR>
	TNE character stat generator.
		TNE_PROG       <DIR>
		TRAV_NAV       <DIR>	Traveller Navigator
		TRAVPROG       <DIR>
	1) sectmass.bas  MS DOS 6.22 Quickbasic (qb.exe) source for the sector 
massager program.  This splits the dgp (genie) sector data into subsector 
data that can be used with the sub2ps subsector mapping program. It 
could be used to split subsectors for other programs, such as 
Galactic, but it will have to be modified.
	2) Biglist.txt is a text file containing the data for neighboring 
sectors, the name of the sector, and the filename of the sector data.
	3) hardtimes.bas is a program that "Post Virus-ify's" a sector using 
the collapse rules in the TNE manual. It produces a sector's worth of 
data, replacing the last three letters of the source file name with 
'_cl'.  the output can then be run through sectmass to produce 
post-collapse subsector data.
		TRAVVIEW       <DIR>
	TRAVVIEW.EXE is a Visual Basic, Windows application which will work with 
standard (i.e., available from sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca or GeNie) MegaTraveller
sector data files.  
	The sector name will appear in the window caption, and there will be a
4 x 4 grid, with each subsector's name appearing on a button in the grid.
Click on the subsector you want to see, and the Subsector display will appear.
	The Subsector display has been designed to mimic as closely as possible the 
appearance of the Star Map; Subsector Capitals are written in Red text,
planets 
with a population over 1,000,000,000 are written in uppercase, Red and Amber
Zone
planets are denoted on-screen, etc.  To see detailed information about a given
planet in the subsector, click on the planet's name.  This will bring up the
Traveller Planetary Information screen.
		TRTV096        <DIR>	Traveller Tools .96
* Map Sector:           by Allegiance
		by Tech Level
		by Starport
		by Population
		by Habitability
		select Trade Code
* Map Subsector
* Map 'theatre'
* Calculate Hard Times (Megatraveller) effects
* Calculate Collapse (TNE) effects
* Regress Second Survey data to T4's M:0 era.
* Convert stellar data
* Generate sector data
* Recalculate trade codes
		TRVLCOMP       <DIR>	Travel Computer
		TRVWORD        <DIR>	Traveller Word Generator(s)
		TWORLDS        <DIR>
		WORDGEN        <DIR>
		WORLDGEN       <DIR>
		WORLDGN        <DIR>
		ANIMLGEN BAS
		ASLAN    C
		ASLAN    EXE
		ASLANMAP EXE	Quick and Dirty Program for Solomani & Aslan book, compile
		ASLANMAP PAS	Quick and Dirty Program for Solomani & Aslan book, Source
		CHARB100 EXE
		CHARB2   EXE
		CHARGENB DOC
		CULTURE  EXE
		CULTURE  STR
		CULTURE  TXT
		HAZARD   EXE
		HAZARD   STR
		HAZARD   TXT
		HDL_9502 TXT
		HIVER    EXE
		IBMBEST  EXE	Bestiary Program
		MARINE   DAT
		NAMESB   DAT
		PIRATE   DAT
		PSYCHE   EXE
		PSYCHE   STR
		PSYCHE   TXT
		RELIGION EXE
		RELIGION STR
		RELIGION TXT
		SCOUT    EXE
		SECGEN1  EXE
		SECTGEN  BAS
		SECTGEN  EXE
		SKILLS   DAT
		SOCIETY  EXE
		SOCIETY  STR
		SOCIETY  TXT
		SPCCMBT  BAS
		STARSHIP BAS
		STARSYS  PAS
		SUBSECTA EXE
		TEMPCALC BAS
		TRAVGEN  BAS
		TRAVGEN  EXE
		TRAVGEN  TXT
		UWP      DOC
		UWP      EXE
		UWPGEN   EXE
		UWPGEN   PAS
		UWPSRC   BAS
	JAVA           <DIR>	Sector viewer
		3RD-SU1  TAR
		3RD-SU2  TAR
		3RD-SU3  TAR
		MAKEFI~1 HTM
		SECTOR~1 HTM
		SECTOR~2 HTM
		SECTOR~3 HTM
		SECTOR~4 HTM
		SERVIN~1 HTM
		STARSY~1 HTM
		SURVAP~1 HTM
		SURVEY~1 HTM
		SURVEY~2 HTM
		SURVEY~3 HTM
		SURVEY~4 HTM
		SURVEY~5 HTM
		COPYRG~1 HTM
	MAC            <DIR>	Mac Software, demos
		INFINI~1 HQX
		MEGACH~1 HQX
		MEGALI~1 HQX
		MEGAME~1 HQX
		METATO~1 HQX
		ROB_2    HTM
		ROB_PR~1 HTM
		IGS_SIT  HQX
STARPORT       <DIR>
	0D00     TXT
	0D02     TXT
	0D03     TXT
	0D04     TXT
	0D05     TXT
	0D06     TXT
	0D07     TXT
	0D08     TXT
	0D09     TXT
	0D10     TXT
	0D11     TXT
	0D12     TXT
	0D13     TXT
	0D14     TXT
	0D15     TXT
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	TML89          <DIR> Traveller Mailing List Archives, 1989
	TML90          <DIR> Traveller Mailing List Archives, 1990
	TML91          <DIR> Traveller Mailing List Archives, 1991
	TML92          <DIR> Traveller Mailing List Archives, 1992
	TML93          <DIR> Traveller Mailing List Archives, 1993
	TML94          <DIR> Traveller Mailing List Archives, 1994
	TML94A         <DIR> Traveller Mailing List Archives, 1994
	TML95          <DIR> Traveller Mailing List Archives, 1995
	TML96          <DIR> Traveller Mailing List Archives, 1996
	TML97          <DIR> Traveller Mailing List Archives, 1997
	TML97A         <DIR> Traveller Mailing List Archives, 1997
	TML98          <DIR> Traveller Mailing List Archives, 1998
	TML98A         <DIR> Traveller Mailing List Archives, 1998
TNE-RCES       <DIR>	Traveller, the New Era mailing list archives
	TNE-94         <DIR> 1994 archives
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 11:30:01 +0200
From: Magnus Persson <Svp96cmp@student2.lu.se>
Subject: Re: HIWG/TML CD contents, long part 1

> How do I get a copy of this CD?

Best regards,

                        Magnus Persson

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 11:41:25 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: comparing the versions

Don McKinney <dmckinne@itds.com>  wrote:

>Has anyone made comparisons of the versions of the game?  It might
>be useful to a newbie and make for a good FAQ...
>
>Comparing LBB to MT to TNE to T4 to GT...

Look at Andy Slack's website:

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/AndySlack/homepage.htm

which discusses skills/character generation.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 11:43:21 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: TravSuite released as Shareware

Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk> wrote:

re the Dulinor suite....

>> although when I tried saving the map the software crashed
>same for me with Win 3.1, win 3.11 and Win 95

Wouldn't work at all under MacOS 8.1... ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 11:55:23 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: 25mm Traveller Figures

"Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net> wrote:

>There's a market for this stuff, as the recent offering of Letters of Marque
>showed.  And I have *ZERO* problem with Marc making money, too.  Keeping him
>alive means we'll eventually see more Traveller stuff in the future.  <grin>

If all goes to plan you'll see 2 (possibly 4) new BITS/CORE 101 Books
released at GenCon UK.

(It's all a balancing act between real life (tm) and finding the time to
write material :-\ ).

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:55:12 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Shouldn't we be dead? (was Re: Supernovas)

In mail you write:

> Hi-
>    I bounced this supernova thing off a friend of mine (happens to be in
> nuclear physics as well as being a fellow Traveller) and attach his reply for
> comment and discussion: 
>
> Although I'm not sure what the "lethal range" of a supernova is, it will be
> a function of its initial mass and possible the proportion of nuclear
> catalyst such as carbon (the last bit tends to be speculative). If lethal
> means total planetary sterilization, then are talking about events that
> will turn the surface into a magma sea. In this case the distances you have
> quoted are likely to be over estimated by a factor of at least 100 if not
> more. If your talking about an event that will kill everything down to ten
> meters in the earth then we are likely talking about an overestimation of
> about 10 fold. If your talking about a dose of 400 rads (the typical LD50
> for mammals and interpreted by most people as the lethal dose) to
> organisms in the open air at high altitudes, then I might believe those
> figures. In any case, the radiative pulse from a supernova is very quick,
> i.e., about four hours, and thus only half the planet will be irradiated.
> If you take into account atmospheric scatter, sky shine, then about 2/3
> will get nailed.

He's considering the Gamma & X-rays from the blast. The real hazard at
a distance is the "shockwave" (expanding "gas" shell). It's expanding
at .8 c or better, and is mostly stripped atoms and free electrons.
And at a density of several hundred to several thousand times that of a
normal vacuum. Thus you'll be getting *huge* amounts of secondary
radiation as all these particles hit the upper atmosphere. And it'll
last for *months* if not years.

It'll also totally screw up the planetary magnetic field. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 01:03:46 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: IN Sting Operation

In mail you write:

>> Gotcha - the IN's idea of a sting operation would be to put a 100-tn
>> Meson Bay in a Free Trader. <g>
>
> Even if you could shoehorn it in, what you gonna use to power it?  <Why do I 
> get the feeling I'm gonna regret asking that??>

It's experimental. And we could tell you how it works, but then we'd
have to kill you. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #630
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Saturday, July 4 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 631



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

fun weapons
Re: IN sting operations
re : IN Sting Operations and the Colchis Liberation Front
Small Scale Colonisation - the traded sector (v1.0)
GenCon UK
Re: Ripples through the Imperium
Re: Ports and ship construction
Galangalic and/or Angalic
Re: A Corsair's Tale
Re: Ports and ship construction (CT)
Re:  Armageddon
Re: comparing the versions
West End Closes
Possibilities...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 01:05:41 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: fun weapons

Has anybody tried duplicating the weapons in Drake's Hammer's Slammer's
series? I'm mostly thinking of the *non*-powergun stuff. For example,
the "squeeze bore" artillery piece from "Forlorn Hope". 

BTW, here's a great way to flush out the SF fans in a group of players.
Just give them an intel briefing on the mercenary groups in the war on
the planet....

"Ok, the Slammer's are in sector Alpha and Falkenberg's Legion is in
sector Beta..."

True fans of military SF will consider suicide about this point... :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 21:29:36
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: IN sting operations

>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Subject: Re: IN Sting Operation
>
>In mail you write:
>
>>> Gotcha - the IN's idea of a sting operation would be to put a 100-tn
>>> Meson Bay in a Free Trader. <g>
>>
>> Even if you could shoehorn it in, what you gonna use to power it?  <Why
do I 
>> get the feeling I'm gonna regret asking that??>
>
>It's experimental. And we could tell you how it works, but then we'd
>have to kill you. :-)

It works just the same as every other meson gun. A month or so back, I
posted a redesign of the Tracy-class TL11 Free Trader incorporating a
spinal meson gun. It isnt a very big one, true, but with 100 dtons to play
with, I think we could get quite an impressive bang.

Essentially, you have 1400 m3 to play with. I'd say about 600 m3 of meson
gun (you dont need much length to bushwhack a pirate ... the plan is
surrender, passively target and then blow the crap out of them when they
close to board), 600 m3 of accumulators and 200 m3 of batteries to power
the baby (you cant risk conventional fusion because of the warmup time, and
The Abomination Known As Fusion Plus is something that doesnt exist IMTUs).
It's simple enough to build with FFS.

With a bit of footwork, you could probably build it into a sphere, allowing
360 degree rotation and any angle, avoiding the problem of pirates saying
'Point that way, and keep your turrets at y angle' ... wont they get a
surprise when they get into range *grin*.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 22:04:41
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: re : IN Sting Operations and the Colchis Liberation Front

>From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
>Subject: re: IN Sting Operation
>
>Ian Whitchurch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>This is one of the great dilemnas of intelligence - you want people shifty
>enough to be good at their jobs, but honest enough to always be on your
>side ... actually, it smells far more like an IISS plan, rather than like a
>IN plan.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Gotcha - the IN's idea of a sting operation would be to put a 100-tn
>Meson Bay in a Free Trader. <g>
>

100 ton ? Free Trader ? Isnt that a bit *small* for the IN *grin* I have
this image of a 200 dton Free Trader spewing out a hundred or so missiles,
each with a 500 kiloton det laser warhead on some schmuck pirate in a
delisted 600 dton frigate from a dirtball navy beyond the frontier.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Yes, white-collar crime is a wonderful thing. What I envisioned was a
>minor clerk (or perhaps underpaid computer operator) who had enough
>access to enter a list of transponder codes into the "cleared for use"
>list wherever transponders are activated. I saw this as happening at
>the shipyard (considering how integral to the ship a transponder is,
>by some descriptions on the TML), but I suppose transponder encoding
>and activation could be the last step of a Starship New-Build Certification
>procedure that an Imperial inspector performs at the nearest starport.
>The greedy clerk adds the codes to the list, and debits the operating
>fund of the shipyard the expected amount to cover the new transponder
>codes. He redirected the money to himself, shared some with "Lefty",
>and skipped planet before an audit could turn up the screwy paper trail.

If their accounting procedures are this bad, it's easier just to redirect
the payment from the Certifying Authority to your own account, and skip
town without all this mucking around with transponder codes and Lefty.

Mind you, I work in DEETYA and know how stuff ups can happen (y'know, I
could be at work on double time right now figuring out exactly why we gave
<deleted on legal advice> half a mill they didnt ask for for <deleted on
legal advice>. Well, we *think* it's half a mill. We arent, at the moment,
100% sure. And after the Australian National Audit Office and the Senate
caught us giving a couple of bankrupts two point eight mill for training
people to work on a cruise ship that didnt exist because their accountants
said they needed the money, we cant afford to go doing things like that).

>Ian again:

>While the "rogue lieutenant" idea provides a nice closure point for a
>scenario, realize the Sector Admiral will be more than happy to toss
>Lt. Mitisky to the wolves if it will placate a noble angered by an
>intelligence op gone bad. "One of our agents, operating on his own.
>Terribly out of bounds. He's been court marshalled, trust me..."
>
>Meanwhile, the PC rolling up Lt. Mitisky looks up from his re-enlistment
>roll of three and says, "Drat. Why did the navy cashier my character?"
>

I *like* working with you, you know that Walt ?

>
>Walt Smith
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 21:43:53 -0400
>From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
>Subject: The Liberation of Colchis
>
>Ian Whitchurch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>I'll bite. Why not sell the ship, and use that to fund the Revolution, or
>sign on as a mercenary cruiser, and use the funds so raised to fund the
>good fight ?
>
>I'd need to go through the detail on the Rules of War, but I'd imagine the
>hands-off Imperial attitude to planetary governments also applies to a
>hands-off attitude to off-world rebels.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Captain Kinzarid here, I'll answer this dirtfoot.
>

Dirtfoot ? I'll have you know I work for Famile Spofulam's High Energy
Solutions Division, as Personal Assistant to Executive Vice-President
Ditzammer Spofulam.

>Why didn't we sell Wespirr Miranta? We could trust no one, and you want
>us to trade our only warship in for a pile of credits? With the Miranta we
>had a base of operations, and a weapon with which to strike back at
>those upstart Technarchs. Not to mention that as far as those Impie
>devils were concerned, we were flying stolen property - owned by the
>Supreme Colchis Technarch Council, all right and legal, complete with
>requests for notification and return of stolen property. Our first show
>in a port where we could sell her, or our first attempt to get a Starmerc
>license, and we'd probably lose our ship to the repo men...or have to
>leave their blood on the soil of some Impie port.
>

OK. There's the answer. Bad or non-existant legal advice on the finer
points of Imperial Law. They think the Imperium gives a damn about some
fight between the old and new governments.

Of course, by going pirate, they completely stuff any attempt to get enough
bits of the Imperial authorities on-side to keep the counter-revolution
going by legal means.

If they had got decent advice, then they'd keep the ship hidden (in case
something goes wrong), set up the government-in-exile, and register the
mercenary unit with a success-only contract from the government-in-exile,
thus providing a fig leaf of legality for their privateering.

>One source of pirates, the losers of a war. Another source can be
>the unwanted warships that belong to the victor...

Nahh. There are more and better legitimate buyers. Ones that pay reliably,
even.

>
>Walt Smith
>
>From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
>Subject: re: The Liberation of Colchis
>

<good stuff deleted>

>
>Some people would call the stereotypical "pirate base" (a hollowed
>asteroid nobody knows about) a "government in exile not subject
>to the Imperium". At least until an Imperial patrol finds it...
>

If you have good enough legal advice, then I'd say you could argue that
hidden base is actually 'New Colchis', the base for the government-in-exile
that can then apply for lawful recognition over that world. That Imperial
world then supports the counter-revolutionaries on Colchis, under the
'legitimate extra-planetary interest' clauses in the unwirtten Laws of War.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 23:13:35
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Small Scale Colonisation - the traded sector (v1.0)

The Traded Sector

If a fledgeling colony can find or develop a source of export income, then
it will be able to buy many goods it cannot produce effectivly locally, or
indeed produce at all.

A surface analysis would indicate that fledgeling colonies would be at an
almost insurmountable economic disadvantage vis a vis already developed
worlds. However, a deeper analysis(1) indicates that things are not as bad
as they might be for both useful and luxury goods (2).

Essentially, a useful commodity's value (around which it's long-run price
fluctuates) is determined by it's cost of production, plus it's cost of
transport to the market. It's cost of production is determined by the price
of the labour embodied in it, plus the rent on the fixed capital used in
it's production plus the price of the raw materials used in it's production.

Now, the price of a raw material is determined by the price of the labour
used in it's extraction, plus the rent on the fixed capital used in it's
extraction, plus the rent paid to the owner of the raw materials.

Fixed capital recieves rents rather than profit, because it has already
been produced, and thus cannot have a value per se to determine profit from
(3).

The minimum price of labour is determined by the cost of living for those
workers. The effective price of labour will depend on their bargaining
power, which usually depends on their alternate employment possibilities
and their ability to negotiate for part of the expected profits of the
enterprise.

Now, a flegeling colony will tend to have rents for raw materials
approaching zero, both because of the sheer amount of raw materials
collection sites versus the number of people in the colony, and because the
low level of law enforcement will quite possibly mean that owners of
resources cannot enforce their legal rights. (4)

Therefore, the price of a colony's exports is fundamentally determined by
the price of labour in that colony, and by the costs of maintaining the
capital so used.

Now, we can calculate the minimum per capita income for a world, and
infrastructure maintainence costs 1% of total production per point, so we
know how much exports will cost to gather.

Assume each export sector worker can gather ten liters per week per point
of infrastructure. One displacement ton is 14 000 liters, so one
displacement ton of export material will need 1400
worker/infrastructure/weeks.

Infrastructure maintainence is calculated for the world as a whole, so that
is therefore covered.

The workers involved in the traded sector will not be directly contributing
to the wider world economy, so reduce world GWP by the number of workers
involved in the traded sector multiplied by the per capita income of the
planet (only reduce production. Do not reduce civilian expenses). This
represents the minimum wages of those workers (5).

We therefore have an amount of goods, so it just has to be got to market
and sold.

For non-luxury goods, the sale price at the market world is determined as
per the vanilla trade system. This money can then be used to buy off-world
goods, including spare parts for high technology equipment. (6)

Example : Iimidi (E493314-7 Lo Ni) has a Infrastructure of two, and Khuir
(B478ABB-9 Hi IN) 3 parsecs away. Exports from Iimidi will have a base
price of Cr 5600 on Khuir, plus Actual Value modifications (probably an end
price of Cr 6150 or so).

Each Iimidian worker can gather 100 liters a week of export goods, so 14
workers will be able to gather 1 dton of export goods per week. These
workers have to be paid Cr 560 per annum (average earnings for Iimidi). The
Iimidi Development Corporation has a friendly Detatched Duty Scout with a
Type S ship, which can fit 4 dtons of cargo.

Therefore, if 50 people were gathering goods for export, they can fill the
Type S with cargo in about the time it takes to go to Khuir and back -
about 5 weeks.

The cost of pulling these 50 people out of the domestic economy (2.5% of
Iimidi's total workforce) is KCr 28 per year. The projected earnings from
selling the goods on Khuir is roughly KCr 240 per annum. Clearly, if the
Iimidians can negotiate a passable agreement with their friendly
neighbourhood scout, then they will be able to raise a reasonable amount of
hard cash with which to improve their world's prospects. If the deal is a
50/50 split, then the export sector is producing goods worth KCr 120 with a
commitment of only 50 people.

(1) Given that Traveller is in many ways the 18th and early 19th century in
space, what choice do I have but use a neo-Ricardan analysis for
interstellar trade ? Interested people are referred to Ricardo, Sraffa and
Joan Robinson, less interested people are invited to use it as econobabble
(the social science equivalent of technobabble) on questioning players to
justify the rules outlined further in.

(2) Luxury commodities are things that are bought for reasons of status, or
where the commodity itself is perceived as having value, regardless of what
it actually does. A warm blanket is a useful good, a hand-embroidered quilt
is a luxury good.

(3) Imagine a gasohol factory that cost MCr 10 million to produce, with a
workforce of 100 that requires a minimum income of Cr 1000 a year. It
consumes 1000 units of corn, and produces 500 units of alcohol. The cost of
operating the factory is thus (price of labour) + (price of corn*1000). The
revenue from the enterprise is clearly (price of alcohol * 500). If alcohol
sells for Cr 1000 a unit, and corn sells for Cr 500 a unit, the total
profit of the enterprise will thus be Cr 400 000 (probably split between
the workforce as wages above the minimum and the owners of the factory).
However, imagine if the price of the factory's inputs or outputs changes.
Clearly, the profit of the eneterprise will change. But this will be true
regardless of the original cost of the factory. As long as the factory can
produce only alcohol, the revenue to the factory owners is not determined
at all by the cost of the factory. Thus, the factory in effect acts as
'land', and thus receives rent rather than profit.

(4) Of course, if landowners do try and reinforce their rights against
tresspassers by use of force, then we may have the quaint traditions of
range wars, and of shootouts between claim owners and claim jumpers.

(5) I am assuming the minimum wages to be socially determined (eg by the
Culture score). If forced labour is doing the work (eg concentration camps
or similar), then costs might be different.

(6) If the resource owners or workers in question are in a position to
export the goods themselves, then importation of offworld luxuries is more
than likely. One of the themes in developing societies has been the
conflict between the free-trading, agrarian, raw-material exporting regions
and the protectionist, industrial, local-production oriented regions. The
societies where the former group has triumphed have usually failed to
develop economically (eg Argentina vs the post-Civil War USA).

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 14:30:34 +0100
From: Rob Day <rob@glisten.demon.co.uk>
Subject: GenCon UK

Hi,

Any hints as to dates/location for this con?

(It doesn't get a mention on the BITS homepage, but as this doesn't look
like it's been updated this year... :(

Dom Mooney wrote :
>If all goes to plan you'll see 2 (possibly 4) new BITS/CORE 101 Books
>released at GenCon UK.

Regards,

Rob.
- -- 
Rob Day
rob@glisten.demon.co.uk

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 16:22:47 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Ripples through the Imperium

Carlos Alos-Ferrer writes:

>	I wanted to answer a very simple question. When did the news of 
>Strephon's assasination arrive in Shiwonee (Massilia J, Geonee 
>homeworld)?

Arrive to who? The public? The local IN admiral? The various Megacorporate
managers? The local Imperial noble? The Shiwonee System government? The
answer may be different for each of these groups. IMO you'd be best off
deciding for yourself what resources each group would have dedicated to
get important news from Capital, work out the average time it would take
those resources to get the news to Shiwonee and then impose a random roll
(say, 2D-2 days) to account for delays caused by the initial confusion.
Is Shiwonee the Sector capital for Massila? That would make a big difference.
IMO the Sector Admiral would get the news as fast as a Jump-6 courier could
get it to him. The various Megacorporate sector managers would propably also
all have arrangements made to get crucial news delivered by jump-6 courier,
but these arrangements propably have less redundancy that IN arrangements.
Actually it is my belief that megacorporations have both the funds and the
need to have a complete jump-6 courier network between their major managers,
but I know that others disagree. But at the very least I think they would
have a few standby couriers for really crucial information. Indeed, any
sufficiently rich organisation MAY have had a standby courier stationed at
capital. That would include sector-wide companies, governments of high-
population planets, and many Imperial dukes. Not all of them would have
seen a need for something like that, but I think some of them would.
If Shiwonee is not the Sector capital, the next question is how long the
Sector Admiral, Sector Duke, and Sector managers will sit on the news
before they pass it on to their subordinate in Shiwonee System. This would
vary so much according to the goals and personality of each individual that
almost anything is possible.

Whether Shiwonee is the sector capital or not, the Shiwonee government may
have invested in a standby courier of their own, possibly giving them a
jump on the local IN admiral...

>	a) Ripples through the Imperium, in The Rebellion Sourcebook, lists 
>a Ripple dated 258.1116 going through subsector N, so the date for 
>Shiwonee should be around one or two weeks before, lets say around 
>240.1116
> 
> 	b) Xboat routed for Massilia, appered in TD 16 (?) and in Knightfall 
>(here, some were severed due to the split of the sector between Li
>and Ma) shows that the only way to go from Shiwonee to Core sector is 
>a long detour to subsector D, numbering 14 jumps. Then, there are no 
>canon (AFAIK) Xboat routes for Core sector, but an optimistic 
>estimate looking at the map would give around 10 jumps from that 
>point (Massilia D) to Capital. This yields 24 jumps, i.e. 24x7=176 
>days. Added to 136.1116, the ETA for Shiwonee would be  312.1116

You may want to take the line that a randomly rolled X-boat network is too
silly to accept and work out a proper X-boat network for your own TU. If
not, calculate the fastest X-boat trip to the offical X-boat nodes closest
to Shiwonee and then see how long it will take for the news to get the
rest of the way by private means. Calculate with weekly jump-4 passenger
liners between major Class A starports down to occasional Jump-1 tramps
between Class E starports.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 16:41:34 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Ports and ship construction

DustyLV769@aol.com writes:

>In a message dated 7/2/98 10:42:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time, rancke@diku.dk
>writes:
> 
><< I could see a case being made that a class A port is the
>>only one with the facilities to build jump drives...but why not buy jump
>>drives and import them to a world with a class B port?
>  
>IMO that would change the Class B port in question to a Class A.
>  
>>>
> 
>I have to disagree here, I'm afraid.  It cannot be anymore difficult to
>install a pre-fabbed jump drive unit than to install a manuever unit, IMO

I don't see the objection. IMO a Class A starport is not so much a starport
where the government could build a starship if they chose to (though I know
that that is exactly the case in TCS). Rather it is a place where a civilian
can go and order a starship built. A Class B starport is one where they
don't build starships. They might be able to, but they don't, propably
because they can't compete economically with the neighboring Class A
starport (After all, if they have to import the jump drive, transportation
costs will increase the total cost of the ship).

There's also the very likely possibility that starship yards simply don't
sell prefab jump drives (or boycott any subcontractor who does), precisely
because they don't want to lose customers to the spaceship yard next
system.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 10:01:50 -0500
From: "Pearson Publishing" <jdpearson@wr.net>
Subject: Galangalic and/or Angalic

I've been working on adding some language details to MTU, to spice things up 
a little.  I've found really great resources & software for Villani, Aslan, Vargr, 
and Zhodani languages and word creation.

However, I'm interested in finding a resource/listing of know Galangalic or 
Angalic words and phrases ... it is after all, supposed to be the "Esperanto" of 
the Imperium.


 -- James Pearson
"The purpose of a referee is to present obstacles 
for players to overcome as they go about seeking 
their goals, not to constantly make trouble for them.
This is a very subtle distinction ..."

The Traveller Book, p. 12

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/4089

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 17:33:05 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: A Corsair's Tale

Walter Smith writes:

>Subject: A Corsair's Tale (long)

As a piece of fiction 'A Corsair's Tale' is fine. As an argument for the
presence of pirates in the Imperium it leaves much to be desired. First
and foremost that it concentrates on some aspects of the situation
without demonstrating that those aspects make sense.
 
>We were the proud crew of a Wespirran-class Patrol Cruiser, part of the
>planetary navy of Colchis.
>A whole arm of trading partners had no navy to speak of, little more than
>marked spots of bedrock to land the cargo shuttles on - they were more or
>less 

First question: How big is Colchis' economy and how significant is the
trade partners on a planetary scale? That is, Colchis' scale?

>so we ran circuits through these worlds, showing a flag and playing beat
>cop in the lawless outer systems of these backwater worlds.

If these world are too primitive to have anything more than Class E
starports, how do they manage to have any significant in-system traffic?
 
>Colchis lost some of her interstellar navy that day. We met some of the
>other crews, some joined us, some shot at us - but most of us decided
>that it was time for the Technarchs to hurt. We couldn't go back to
>Colchis system, the couple of Dragon-class SDB's they kept would make
>scrap out of us - but we could snipe at any cargo moving through Colchis
>Subsector, cut their little technocracy off at the knees.

OK. So the population of Colchis is so small that their entire navy
consists of a couple of (presumably quite large) SDBs and a handful of
patrol cruisers, yet it is the largest system in the subsector? That
sounds somewhat anomalous for an Imperial subsector. 

>Ever try to fulfill promises of an Air/Raft in every garage when someone
>is nailing your grav module cargos?

So these worlds that Colchis trades with has populations too small to
afford a single small SDB, bout they are big enough to specialize in
their production to the point that Colchis finds it cheaper to import
grav modules rather than build them itself?
 
>We'd worked blockade with the Impie Navy on our force rotation training
>cruises. We were used to keeping our Cruiser running on ingenuity and
>grob-nabble chewgum. We knew every workshack and fabrication plant
>all up and down the backwaters, and most of them had about as much 
>use for the new Technarch Highlords of Colchis as we did.

Just how many workshacks and fabrication plants capable of producing
starship replacement parts are there in a gaggle of worlds with Class E
starports and minuscule populations? And how do the rebels pay for the
replacement parts? With cargoes stolen from the same worlds? (Hurting
the Colchis trade without hurting the trade partners dosen't seem
possible).

>For a time,
>we were the bane of merchanters in the subsector. Ships that were too
>big, or had powerful enough drives to jump straight from Hamovar to
>Colchis, we left alone - but the tradesmen that had to go through the
>hinterworlds to get to Colchis were often as not ours for the taking.

How many intermediate stops from Hamovar to Colchis? All Colchis (or
Hamovar) needs to be able protect merchant traffic is one sufficiently
big task force in each intermediate system. BTW. what is Hamovar doing
about the disruption of its trade?

>We even found a pipeline out of the subsector for goods, so we could not
>only hurt Colchis but also start gathering the funds to organize a little
>coup of our own. And that, as the saying goes, is where things started
>getting out of control.

How long is the pipeline? Every extra jump adds to the transportation
costs. Pretty soon the fences will begin losing money on cargoes of
stables even if they get them for free.

>You know the rest. How the formal requests from the Right Technarchic
>Assembly of Colchis for Imperial assistance in the control of piracy
>was answered by a flotilla of Impie fleet Destroyer-Escorts - 
>Fer-de-Lances were they, or Chrysanthemums? Something like that.
>We could outrun or outfight any of the piecemeal starmerc ships that
>Colchis hired to police the lanes, 

Colchis don't need to chase the rebels down to protect their trade. All
they need are ships that can outfight them. And since they no longer
have to support the rebels, they can afford to hire about the same
weight and quality in starmercs as they lost to the rebels. So unless
_all_ the jump-capable ships in the Colchis fleet rebelled, they
outnumber the rebels. BTW. I suppose the old Colchis government was
silly enough not to have any reserve ships laid up in ordinary?
Because if they had, the Technarchs could have recommisioned those ships
(equivalent to anything from 50% to 800% of the active peacetime navy
depending on your assumptions) and used them. I admit that it will take
quite a while before Colchis can build new ships. 

>but when the ships with the starburst logo started making themselves
>known we were out of luck and on the run. 
> 
>Our ship and ourselves were marked men and forfeit to Impie law by then.
>Sahin came through for us again, his underworld contacts getting us
>some transponder gear and spoof rigs that might let us pass, and got
>us out of Colchis subsector.

As long as the ships don't need to actually visit any civilized starports,
they could propably get away without any of that stuff.

>We're on the fringe now, a step ahead of the law and taking what we can,
>trusting to the Captain's instincts to fly us out of harm's way and into
>fat traders with cargo we can use. We have to move every couple of months,
>and our Cruiser is slowly turning from a clean-lined ship of a respectable
>navy into a rag-tag, field-expedited raider.

All very poetic, but it dosen't do anything to prove that such an existence
is possible. It may be or it may not be, but just saying that it is dosen't
help a whole lot. (Mind you, I think the renegade patrol ship is the most
plausible source of pirates anyone has come up with so far, but I don't
think they would be all that numerous.

>Author's notes: Just some ideas on wheres and whys of piracy. "Colchis"
>is a world in a backwater subsector, at the end of a trade link from a
>planet called "Hammovar". Colchis is very important to it's inhabitants,
>and almost irrelevant to the Imperium. The string of backwater worlds
>that trade with Colchis are even less relevant. Colchis maintained a
>small system defense force, and a flotilla of jump-capable patrol craft.

A rather unusual astrographical set-up, isn't it? I mean, how many similar
setups do you think there is in the Imperium?


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 17:45:38 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Ports and ship construction (CT)

I wrote:

>The formula I use is dividing by log (population) - 7 for populations above
>100,000,000. That will give you 1/2 the normal budget for a planet with one
>billion inhabitants and 1/4 for one with 10 billion. Note that high-population
>planets are still more powerful than those with lower populations, just not
>proportionally so.


That formula was wrong. What I do is divide by 2^^(log((population)-8)).
So for a population of 100,000,000 I divide by 1, for one of 1 billion
I divide by 2, and for one of 10 billion I divide by 4.
 
 
      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- -------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 09:26:29 -0600
From: chet-el@juno.com (Chester L Cox)
Subject: Re:  Armageddon

Yeah, despite the Hollywood science (stuff that comic books wouldn't
screw up a decade or two ago) and the inept Biblical references (We
laughed at the point where "the President" misparaphrased the Bible as
Armageddon being the End of Everything.), it was fun.  This is the sort
of movie I point to and say "Yeah, that's how to make a good comic book
on the screen!"

Hoping that the Spider-Man movie is in this vein....

*jeep!
- --Chet

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 12:04:59 EDT
From: Gr1zzly1@aol.com
Subject: Re: comparing the versions

so do i but i need the mercenary book #5 if anyone has it please contact me.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 11:19:17 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: West End Closes

According to Pyramid magazine, West End games fired all it's employees
Wednsday and will file for bankruptcy next week.

The article states that it is unlikely that Lucasfilm will renew the Star
Wars liscence with anyone, since the profits were so low.

*sigh* Another one bites the dust.
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry     dberry@hooked.net |
|     http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/     |
|----------------------------------------|
| "The best tank terrain is that without |
|  anti-tank weapons."                   |
|            -Russian Military Doctrine  |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 18:53:09 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Possibilities...

I found a couple of places easily accessible to me that will do
custom caps.  I immediately had the idea to do a "Third Imperium"
cap, black with a yellow sunburst (sunburst as on the Freelance
Traveller pages - although if there's a "better" one that I can
use, let me know - and no, I don't consider the ones from the IG
pages acceptable).  I have yet to determine price, and both
places wanted to see the "custom graphic" before committing to do
even one for me, but both advertised being able to do orders of
"any size".  I have no reason to believe that there would be any
real problems with doing them in choice-of-color (so that you
Marine types can get the yellow ones with the red sunburst, for
example); there are, however, some questions outstanding which
_must_ be answered before I pursue this idea further:

(1) Arguably, Marc and IG may have legal vetoes over this idea;
morally, Marc absolutely does.  I'm not interested in making
money from this; if it becomes possible, the cost to anyone who
wants one will be the cost of the cap plus shipping.  Do I hear
any objections from anyone entitled to object and make it stick?

(2) Is there any actual interest in this?

(3) What kind of price would people be willing to pay for this?
Give me three estimates: One if you can only get it in one color,
black with yellow sunburst, one if you can pick from a fixed menu
of colors (i.e. Standard-Bk&Y, Marine-Y&R, Navy-... etc.), and
one if you can pick your colors freely. (By the way, what _are_
the standard color combos?)

I also want to point out that this is potentially advertising for
the game system.  I don't go to cons, but people here do, and if
Marc gets a new publisher in the near future, this is a potential
source of ready-made promo stuff - depending, of course, on
whether the places can actually handle very large orders, and at
a reasonable price...

It's probably better if you write to me privately to express your
interest; no sense in cluttering the list.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #631
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Sunday, July 5 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 632



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: 25mm Traveller Figures 
Re: West End Closes
Players Wanted!
Re: Armagedon
Sorry about last message
Re: Possibilities...
Re: CD-ROM & Campaign Cartographer
Re: West End Closes
re: Possibilities...
Re: Color of Jumpspace
Re: comparing the versions
Theme
Re: Current Games
Re: fun weapons
Errata for Small Scale Colonisation - the traded sector (v1.0)
Re: comparing the versions
Re: CD-ROM & Campaign Cartographer
Re: comparing the versions
Re: fun weapons
Re: Ports and ship construction
Re: comparing the versions
Quick thoughts on combat inside gravity wells

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 15:50:18 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: 25mm Traveller Figures 

> (It's all a balancing act between real life (tm) and finding the time to
> write material :-\ ).

I an relate!!

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 16:04:38 -0400
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: Re: West End Closes

> According to Pyramid magazine, West End games fired all it's employees
> Wednsday and will file for bankruptcy next week.
> 
> The article states that it is unlikely that Lucasfilm will renew the Star
> Wars liscence with anyone, since the profits were so low.
> 
> *sigh* Another one bites the dust.


It might be possible that Wizards of the Coast might be able to purchase
the license and port it over to Alternity, at least until the current
license expires. Bill Slavicek (sp.), one of the Alternity design team,
worked on Star Wars over at West End during what many consider it's heydey.
(I don't think the 2nd edition-Revised was such a good idea, myself...)

If anyone could make a go of it. it's probably WoTC/TSR.

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 21:41:42 +0100
From: "CHARLES WALKER" <cnw@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Players Wanted!

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BDA794.88C433C0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am looking for traveller Players for an ongoing campaign, meet once =
per month on Saturday afternoons in Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire, UK. =
If you are interested get in touch with me
         =20

                                                    Cheers=20
                                                                Nick.
Behold,  his feet leave tracks in the sands of time,
and Death walks at his left hand...


- ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BDA794.88C433C0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I am looking for traveller Players =
for an=20
ongoing campaign, meet once per month on Saturday afternoons in Hebden =
Bridge,=20
West Yorkshire, UK. If you are interested get in touch with =
me</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FO=
NT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Cheers </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Nick.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Behold,&nbsp; his feet leave tracks =
in the sands=20
of time,<BR>and Death walks at his left=20
hand...<BR></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BDA794.88C433C0--

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 20:50:35 GMT
From: johnl@vnet.net (John Lansford)
Subject: Re: Armagedon

On Sat, 04 Jul 1998 02:30:17 -0700, you wrote:


>My quickie review:  Standard, dead-head, action movie sprinkled with tid-bits of
>touching moments.

>I found myself yawning a lot.  Yeah, yeah, yeah, blah, blah, blah...then I'd get
>chocked up for a second...but only for one second...then it was back to the
>yeah, yeah, blah, blah stuff.

It must be terrible to be so cynical of a movie you went to
(presumably) be entertained by.

While I had some questionable moments during the movie, there wasn't
anything that messed up my willing suspension of disbelief enough to
ruin the enjoyment of it.

John Lansford


The unofficial I-26 Construction Webpage:
http://users.vnet.net/lansford/a10/

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 22:00:29 +0100
From: "CHARLES WALKER" <cnw@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Sorry about last message

I send my apologies to the list for not hitting the plain text key on the
format  stage when I accidentally sent the message about traveller players
wanted

Sorry
Very Sorry
Please Forgive Me

Nick
Behold,  his feet leave tracks in the sands of time,
and Death walks at his left hand...

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 14:29:00 -0700
From: "Brannon \"Ben\" Boren" <brannonb@blarg.net>
Subject: Re: Possibilities...

Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
> 
> I found a couple of places easily accessible to me that will do
> custom caps.  I immediately had the idea to do a "Third Imperium"
> cap, black with a yellow sunburst

I'd be willing to buy one, up to about $30, assuming it is a good cap as
well as having the sunburst on it (i.e. a quality all-cloth type cap, and
not a plastic-mesh-backed cheap baseball cap). I probably wouldn't buy it
at all if it weren't a good cap on its own, regardless of what is on it,
even if it was cheaper.

> (sunburst as on the Freelance
> Traveller pages 

Can you please give a URL for the graphic you mean?

> It's probably better if you write to me privately to express your
> interest; no sense in cluttering the list.

I put this up here, because I wanted to raise the issue above - the quality
of the actual article, apart from the logo blazoned on it. I hope that all
Traveller licensed products can be pressed to follow this philosophy,
rather than the as-cheap-as-possible model.

MHO,
Ben


- --
Brannon "Ben" Boren
brannonb@blarg.net
http://www.mog.net/brannonb/

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 18:03:41 -0400
From: Matthew Harelick <matth@CYBERNEX.NET>
Subject: Re: CD-ROM & Campaign Cartographer

I know this is a silly question but ...

The CDROM will be ISO-9660 compliant and readable by UNIX / PC / MAC,
ie everyone right?


Kagehira@aol.com wrote:

>         This CD-ROM is available now (see previous list for contents; although I'm
> currently waiting for Galactic 2.4 before I do the next shipment. Maybe in the
> next week. Jim's been busy plugging away at the new additions to the program).
>
>         Ordering info:
> Bryan Borich
> 3890 50th street
> San Diego, CA 92105-3005
>
> Cost: $15 + $2 S&H
>
> James Woods,
>         The Campaign Cartographer program has a patch so it might be able to use
> James Woods software without that one glitch (and speaking of which your CC
> map is on the CD, I had it before, and Profantasy sent me another copy of it.
> I'd especially like a copy of your mapping utility, it's something I
> definitely could use soon, as could some other people I know).
>
> Bryan
>
> P.S. If somebody sees something they don't want on the list tell me. If
> somebody has any of the Judges Guild, Marischel or White Dwarf material
> scanned, I have permission to include those on the disk (Other former
> licensees are still in the works).

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 17:17:51 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: West End Closes

On 07/04/98 at 11:19 AM,  dberry@hooked.net said:

>According to Pyramid magazine, West End games fired all it's
>employees Wednsday and will file for bankruptcy next week.

>The article states that it is unlikely that Lucasfilm will renew the
>Star Wars liscence with anyone, since the profits were so low.

>*sigh* Another one bites the dust.

Yeah, I saw that, and it came as something of a surprise to me. I was
under the impression that Star Wars line was selling pretty well.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 18:36:36 -0500
From: Mark A Nordstrand <markn@wavefront.com>
Subject: re: Possibilities...

> I found a couple of places easily accessible to me that will do
> custom caps.  

I've always liked the one in the 2300AD book:

 CAT
Fusion 
Powered

(sorry it isn't scaled well)

Mark

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 02:48:52 +1200
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Color of Jumpspace

>Tell them to close their eyes and jam their thumbs into their eyesockets.
>That's what it looks like, plus the pain. 


Screw the thumbs around a bit, see if you can find the back of your skull.

Best to be asleep.

Cheers,
 Anson.

Blockbuster generates 20% of it's revenues through late fees. 
My lifestyle does make a difference, 
by strategically failing I am proactively participating 
in a concerted effort to expand this nations GNP. 
This is my contract with America.

IMTU: tc+ tm tn++ !t4 !tg tt+ to ru ge+ !3i c- jt+ au ls+ pi+ ta++ he++

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 02:57:06 +1200
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: comparing the versions

>Character Generation

Well, I liked MT cos it had the advance charcter genration until I found it
came from CT (LBB). Then I figured it was just an import and no better than
the original. But I like the TNE system because the player can make a
character they want to play, which is the major criteria of my game ie. the
players have fun (within my limits :))

>Character Combat

Err, being a Twilight 2000 fanatic I guess TNE win's out. Throw the players
into a bloodbath and at worst only a couple will die, the others get mangled
limbs :)

>Starship Design

Worked out the MT system on paper... Hell I'm a gearhead FFS does most of it
for me but not enough detail...


>Starship Combat

CT (LBB) was the easiest and more fun to implement.

>Economics

It just doesn't work, why trade stuff to other planets when you living on a
planet and that stuff will most likely be around somewhere, hell just import
a survey team...

>Experience


Err, Adventure points are cheap and easy and since the skills are only a
minor part of the game I use them, TNE.

Cheers,
 Anson.

Blockbuster generates 20% of it's revenues through late fees.
My lifestyle does make a difference,
by strategically failing I am proactively participating
in a concerted effort to expand this nations GNP.
This is my contract with America.

IMTU: tc+ tm tn++ !t4 !tg tt+ to ru ge+ !3i c- jt+ au ls+ pi+ ta++ he++

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 02:38:06 +1200
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Theme

Mustafa stirred in his bed, waking, he stared at the ceiling.
 Aurore hadn't been a picnic, with Eleanor along you needed stainless steel
balls and then some. The inception was fine, just another tourist, blend in
with the locals, become part of the scenery. Sounds good in theory but what
do you say when Jim asks you on your theories about worming the local
septapods when the closest you've come to livestock is when they're on your
plate?
 Eleanor grunted across the room. Typical, she can snore and I get hassled
for it in the morning. Even then, septapods, this misshapen thing with two
too many heads, why the hell would you want to farm them? The insults they
learn, it's enough to drive a man crazy.
 Still, the company says 'get this planet' we obey like whelps cringing
under our master, not too far from the truth I suppose. It's not the money
it's... well, I suppose it is the money, three more years.
 Aurore, a planet with enough trouble to kill an entire Imperial platoon,
that's why they sent us, we're cheaper and nobody will miss us. All we have
to do is buy out the planet. Sounds easy I suppose turn up with a few
trillion credits and bingo. Nope. For starters we don't have those kind of
resources and second, the minute one of these dirt farmers heard that some
Corp was willing to buy, the prices would skyrocket. We have to do it the
other way. Get a holding, build on it, run a few scams and have the company
save the day (through the subsidiaries of course). Same old, same old. Three
more years.

Cheers,
 Anson.

Blockbuster generates 20% of it's revenues through late fees.
My lifestyle does make a difference,
by strategically failing I am proactively participating
in a concerted effort to expand this nations GNP.
This is my contract with America.

IMTU: tc+ tm tn++ !t4 !tg tt+ to ru ge+ !3i c- jt+ au ls+ pi+ ta++ he++

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 03:25:59 +1200
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Current Games

>Are you currently playing in or GMing a Traveller game?  If you are,
>how about posting a brief synopsis of it to the list.
>
>I will if you will.  ;->

Of course :)

I am currently running a game set in the year @2100 AD (well before the
imperium) the characters are Marines working for the UEPF (United Earth
Peacekeeping Force). Basically I'm working on having a no anti-grav
Cyberpunkish kind of society. The governments rule with the backing of the
corporations...
  First contact has been made! Unfortunately it was with the Kafer (stolen
from 2300) who tend to kill things. Then the Hatchlings (aka Bughunters)
appeared and now it's a mess of highly dangerous weapons and psychopathic
PC's. Fun for all the family :)
  I am using the TNE system both because I like it and It's hard to kill a
PC. Considering the firepower around in this campaign then this is a good
thing. Hey I like realism but sometimes you gotta let go and have a
megablast!

Cheers,
 Anson.

Blockbuster generates 20% of it's revenues through late fees.
My lifestyle does make a difference,
by strategically failing I am proactively participating
in a concerted effort to expand this nations GNP.
This is my contract with America.

IMTU: tc+ tm tn++ !t4 !tg tt+ to ru ge+ !3i c- jt+ au ls+ pi+ ta++ he++

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 20:05:27 -0700
From: warlock@imagin.net
Subject: Re: fun weapons

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> 
> Has anybody tried duplicating the weapons in Drake's Hammer's Slammer's
> series? I'm mostly thinking of the *non*-powergun stuff. For example,
> the "squeeze bore" artillery piece from "Forlorn Hope".
> 
> BTW, here's a great way to flush out the SF fans in a group of players.
> Just give them an intel briefing on the mercenary groups in the war on
> the planet....
> 
> "Ok, the Slammer's are in sector Alpha and Falkenberg's Legion is in
> sector Beta..."
> 
> True fans of military SF will consider suicide about this point... :-)

And don't forget that four-letter word from Keith Laumer's books:

"Bolo"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 00:38:02
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Errata for Small Scale Colonisation - the traded sector (v1.0)

>From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
>Subject: Small Scale Colonisation - the traded sector (v1.0)
>
>The Traded Sector
<stuff deleted>

>Assume each export sector worker can gather ten liters per week per point
>of infrastructure. One displacement ton is 14 000 liters, so one
>displacement ton of export material will need 1400
>worker/infrastructure/weeks.
>

This is right

<stuff deleted>

>Each Iimidian worker can gather 100 liters a week of export goods, so 14
>workers will be able to gather 1 dton of export goods per week. These
>workers have to be paid Cr 560 per annum (average earnings for Iimidi). The
>Iimidi Development Corporation has a friendly Detatched Duty Scout with a
>Type S ship, which can fit 4 dtons of cargo.

This is wrong. It should be 20 liters per week each, so it should take 70
workers to do a dton in a week.

>
>Therefore, if 50 people were gathering goods for export, they can fill the
>Type S with cargo in about the time it takes to go to Khuir and back -
>about 5 weeks.

This is right - 50 workers do about 4 dtons in 5 weeks.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 19:30:31 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: comparing the versions

In mail you write:

>>Economics
>
> It just doesn't work, why trade stuff to other planets when you living on a
> planet and that stuff will most likely be around somewhere, hell just import
> a survey team...

If that was true, the US wouldn't import much.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 20:16:07 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: CD-ROM & Campaign Cartographer

Matthew Harelick wrote:
> 
> I know this is a silly question but ...
> 
> The CDROM will be ISO-9660 compliant and readable by UNIX / PC / MAC,
> ie everyone right?

Absolutely...the .sit and .hqx versions of the Mac files are ok. Most
everything else is text.

Of course you'll need some version of MS-Dos to run a bunch of the programs,
or a C compiler handy, as many of the programs include source code.

Speaking of MS-Dos...any Mac folk on the list with enough experience to say
whether Real PC or Virtual PC work well enough on a PowerMac 7200/75 to
emulate at least a 386? (All I really need for stuff like Galactic and the
apps on the CD..I don't _want_ to do Windows at home...I've gotta put up with
_that_ all day long at work!)

I've got bunches of memory and diskspace...All the reviews I've read of the
products are by people running Windows or twitch games on it, no one bothers
to test five year old RPG utilities with it ;-)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 21:51:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
Subject: Re: comparing the versions

On Sat, 4 Jul 1998, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> >>Economics
> > It just doesn't work, why trade stuff to other planets when you living on a
> > planet and that stuff will most likely be around somewhere, hell just import
> > a survey team...
> 
> If that was true, the US wouldn't import much.

In 1850 it was routine for dirty laundry to be shipped from San Francisco
to China to be laundered and ironed, then returned to SF.

You never know what local conditions will lead to - every situation is
unique. Imagine a freighter crew being given 100 tons of *dirty laundry*
for transport to a neighboring world for washing and ironing  ;)

Ben

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 20:56:28 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: fun weapons

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> 
>> Has anybody tried duplicating the weapons in Drake's Hammer's Slammer's
>> series? I'm mostly thinking of the *non*-powergun stuff. For example,
>> the "squeeze bore" artillery piece from "Forlorn Hope".
>> 
>> BTW, here's a great way to flush out the SF fans in a group of players.
>> Just give them an intel briefing on the mercenary groups in the war on
>> the planet....
>> 
>> "Ok, the Slammer's are in sector Alpha and Falkenberg's Legion is in
>> sector Beta..."
>> 
>> True fans of military SF will consider suicide about this point... :-)
>
> And don't forget that four-letter word from Keith Laumer's books:
>
> "Bolo"

Bolos are a bit too high tech for the Imperium.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 16:54:08 +1200
From: Steve Rennell <wulf@sea.southern.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Ports and ship construction

Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> wrote in part:
> There's also the very likely possibility that starship yards simply don't
> sell prefab jump drives (or boycott any subcontractor who does), precisely
> because they don't want to lose customers to the spaceship yard next
> system.

You can't get less for a sheep than to sell it live, so New 
Zealand does. You can't get less for timber than to sell it 
unprocessed, so New Zealand does. New Zealand was 
the only place in the world that grew Kiwifruit, so we sold 
some breeding plants to Chile, and now they are taking 
over our markets.

The Real world is full of examples that don't make sense. 
I fail to see why the Empire will be smarter. What makes 
sense at an individual level, is often stupid on a more 
general level. 

Regards

Steve

 
- -----
More, more, I'm still not satisfied...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 17:03:34 +1200
From: Steve Rennell <wulf@sea.southern.co.nz>
Subject: Re: comparing the versions

Anson Betts wrote:
> >Character Combat
> 
> Err, being a Twilight 2000 fanatic I guess TNE win's out. Throw the
> players into a bloodbath and at worst only a couple will die, the others
> get mangled limbs :)

I would like a combat system where it was possible to 
make someone stop shooting at you by hitting them with 
a 9mm round to the chest (assuming for the moment that 
they are unarmoured). I'm not asking for a guaranteed 
one shot stop, but 50% would be nice. T2000, and by 
extension TNE doesn't achieve this (I only own T2000 
ed2).

As it is the TNE combat system is unable to guarantee 
you that hitting anyone will put them down. Thus the 
characters up the level of artillery they carry until they 
_can_ get a reasonable assurance of putting someone 
out of the fight. This screws with the assumptions I base 
my world on when deciding what an average load out is 
for a cop for instance. 

What I want is a system where people go down when you 
hit them, but if you get to them quickly enough, you can 
save them with the wonders of modern medicine. CT 
combined with Striker actually did this for me reasonably 
well, since most weapons would put someone down, but 
it was actually quite difficult to get an instant kill, thus 
satisfying the opposing desires of some degree of 
verisimilitude vs not having to roll a new character every 
two sessions.

Steve


- ---
Software is never having to say you're finished.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 04:47:14
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Quick thoughts on combat inside gravity wells

Traveller combat in and around gravity wells is dominated by two
technologies - the anti-grav module and the meson gun.

I dont think it was the intention of the games designers to make meson guns
as dominant weapons as they are for ground combat, but under FFS you really
cant go past a small meson gun as a vehicle weapon. It is trivially easy to
make a 20 km range meson gun, and the ability to kill armoured targets
makes the typical Traveller 'grav tank' dead meat.

Given the power of meson guns, Ogre-style vehicles will tend to dominate,
as they can commit the volume and power for thick enough meson screens to
defend against the meson weapons carried by vehicles and small starships. I
dont like this. We need to lobby Marc Miller into mandating a minimum size
for meson guns (I'd suggest 100m at TL11, falling by 20m per TL thereafter.
This puts the abomination that is the handheld meson gun at TL16, which is
where it should be).

The second dominant technology is contra-gravity. As well as enabling very
heavily armoured grav tanks, it enables grav-packed Mobile Infantry by
about TL10 and exceedingly fast contragravity powered missiles.

Although Bubba-style kinetic kill missiles are probably not viable in
atmospheres, combustion laser warheads probably are. This will push the
required point defense range out to line-of-sight, which essentially
restricts this role to lasers (plasma and solid warheads cannot reach the
missile in time to stop it detonating).

Particle weapons are, I suspect, best used in an anti-personell role -
dug-in infantry will tend to use a lot of sand in and around their
positions, possibly suspended inside some sort of plastisised dome, and
neutral particle weapons will allow these positions to be suppressed. The
length/diameter requirements of PAWs mean that they need to be quite large
to penetrate the armour a grav tank can easily mount.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #632
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Sunday, July 5 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 633



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Possibilities...
Re: Fun Weapons
TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Re: WEG bankruptcy
Re: comparing the versions
Re: comparing the versions
CT surface action
AUCTION: MegaTraveller/DGP (Sol&As, Var&Vil, WBH, SOM, etc.)
Re: comparing the versions
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Re: fun weapons
re: GenCon UK
Re: comparing the versions

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 22:51:00 -0700
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
Subject: Re: Possibilities...

I agree.  I'd buy an Imperial sunburst cap assuming it was good quality
as well.  Will there be a market for one?

Kristian

Brannon "Ben" Boren wrote:
> 
> Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
> >
> > I found a couple of places easily accessible to me that will do
> > custom caps.  I immediately had the idea to do a "Third Imperium"
> > cap, black with a yellow sunburst
> 
> I'd be willing to buy one, up to about $30, assuming it is a good cap as
> well as having the sunburst on it (i.e. a quality all-cloth type cap,

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 01:50:00 EDT
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fun Weapons

	And the Dorsai are doing a drop on Sector C.......


Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 02:32:55 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

On 07/05/98 at 05:03 PM,  Steve Rennell <wulf@sea.southern.co.nz>
said:

>> Err, being a Twilight 2000 fanatic I guess TNE win's out. Throw the
>> players into a bloodbath and at worst only a couple will die, the others
>> get mangled limbs :)

>I would like a combat system where it was possible to 
>make someone stop shooting at you by hitting them with 
>a 9mm round to the chest (assuming for the moment that 
>they are unarmoured). I'm not asking for a guaranteed 
>one shot stop, but 50% would be nice. 

I have to agree with you here, a 45 or 9mm should have a reasonable
chance of producing a "one shot stop"....and I *like* TNE and by
extension TW2K, so I'd rather discuss *fixing* the problem. 

By a "one shot stop" I don't mean instant death, necessarily, but a
heavy slug in the chest really should put most people out of action
very quickly.  Let's look at this and see what we can come up with.

First let's assume an average TNE character who has 6 for all stats.
That gives a Chest Hit Capacity of (6+6)*3 = 36 points.

To stop this average character with a single chest shot you're going
to need to get a "Serious Wound" plus an "Unconsciousness roll", a
"Quick Kill", or at least a "Knockdown."

Serious Wound -- more than the hit capacity, but less than double, ie.
37 to 72 points.  This reduces the Initiative rating by 3 (severely
limiting their ability to act), and if they fail a continuing 1d100
against their CON they fall into unconsciousness, ie 93% chance of
dropping every 30 seconds.  This looks good, but unfortunately, most
hand weapons can't deliver 36 to 72 points with a single bullet, and
for it to be about a 50-50 average you'll need a 10d6 weapon.  Look
one of those up. ;->

Quick Kill -- "Any shot which hits the chest or head may constitute a
killing shot.  Roll a d20, if the roll is less than or equal to the
damage value of the shot, the target is instantly killed except on a
roll of 20 exactly."  This has been interpreted two different ways,
either the damage value mentioned is the number of *dice* rolled, or
it is the number of *pips* rolled.  If it is the dice, then pistols
have a 5% or 10% chance of a Quick Kill.  If it is the pips then, for
pistols, the chance ranges from 5% to 60%...for most pistols the
average chance is 15% or 20%.  [Personally, I prefer using the pips,
because I want combat more deadly.]

However!  The rules go on to say that the Quick Kill rule shouldn't be
applied to PC's, and no bones are made that this is something of a
cop-out.  Instead the suggestion is to roll for the Quick Kill, and
double the damage done if the roll succeeds.

Unfortunately, even doubling the damage for a single 9mm Auto Pistol's
round (1d6) rolled at *maximum* is only 12 points.  So, it would take
3 slugs to the chest, all at maximum roll and all quick kills to fall
1 short of a serious wound.

Knockdown -- if the total damage take in a turn exceeds current AGL
the character is knocked down and can't act for the rest of the turn. 
So, we need to put 7+ hits on a character to knock him down.  That's a
2d6 weapon, and in TNE that means a you need a 9 mm Magnum or a rifle
bullet to have a chance on a single shot.  Even then the character can
get back up next turn and most likely continue fighting...that helps,
but not a lot.

Ok, what can we do about this problem, for those of us that see it as
a problem?  (Don't say...play XXX...because XXX probably has similar
problems. ;-)

1.  Reduce the number of hit point capacity of each body part,
particularly the chest.  This might be a good idea, but I don't think
you can drop the numbers enough to have an effect without creating
other problems.

2.  Increase the amount of damage that weapons deal out.  Using d10's
has been suggested, forex, but I'm not enthused by that suggestion,
I'd like to stay with d6's for damage for a number of reasons.  I *do*
think increasing the number of dice and adding modifiers is a good
idea, though...that's something about GURPS I like.  Still, I don't
think anyone is going to want to increase the numbers enough to have
the "one stop stop" effect we want.

3.  Modify Quick Kill to become QUICK STOP, and apply it to *all*
characters.  Use the rule as it currently stands, but instead of
causing instant death, it causes an instant *stun* that drops the
character. Regaining consciousness could be a Difficult (or
Formidable) task against CON.  If you wanted NPC's to be dead instead
of stunned, then that's a GM's prerogative.

Personally, I favor a little of 2 and a lot of 3. 

Two more things...

First, a seriously wounded...but conscious...character seems to be
able to perform many tasks as if they were fresh as a daisy.  T4, MT
and CT temporarily reduced Attributes due to hits, and that seems like
a realistic thing to me.  I know I wouldn't be able to recite pi to 15
places *as easily* if I'd taken a slug in the head, even if it didn't
knock me out.  I'd also reduce the mental Stats, particularly if the
hit was to the head, maybe chest too.

Second, cuts and puncture wounds tend to cause bleeding and the
wounded will usually get worse and worse until they fall into
unconsciousness and/or die.  I don't see where that is addressed very
well at all in TNE...or in T4, MT or CT for that matter.  Without
getting too complicated, a way should be found to model the continued
draining of a character's "life force", to steal a phrase from MT,
until the wound is treated.  How about keep reducing Attributes by one
each turn as long as a wound isn't "stabilized?"  It's not quite that
easy, but that's the basic idea.

To summarize, I think...TNE (and T4 too, though less so) needs to make
combat a litle more deadly, particularly, chest shots.  The number of
hit points a weapon does should go up, but that won't solve the
problem. A "Quick Stun" rule would help a lot, but solve everything. 
A way to reduce Attributes through damage and having some kinds of
hits continue inflicting additional damage over several turns are
features that should be included.


Does this make sense to anybody else?  

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 03:43:01 EDT
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: WEG bankruptcy

	On another note, WEG is doing a final sales clearance on all there material
in stock, at 65% off. Though between the 65% off and them staying in business,
I think I prefer the latter by far.

Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 03:45:53 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: comparing the versions

> I would like a combat system where it was possible to 
> make someone stop shooting at you by hitting them with 
> a 9mm round to the chest (assuming for the moment that 

Well that might not be realistic.  9mm are pretty pathetic actually...  There
are notorious instances of those Samoan guys not going down after taking over
20 x 9mm rounds...  Handgun fatalities in general are lower than most people
think, too.

The 9mm autopistol has a DV of 2.  Knockdown says that if you take more damage
*points* than current AGL, there is a knockdown w/ no other actions for the
rest of the current turn.  Average damage points from that 9mm is 7, which is
higher than average AGL (6).  Max damage is 12.  Outstanding Success doubles
damage,  as does the (optional) Quick Kill/Double Damage rule.  There's a
potential damage of 36 using TNE as printed, which is a Serious chest wound to
the average (STR 6 CON 6) detailed character.  

I use D10 for damage and quadruple damage when there's both Outstanding
Success and Quick Kill... meaning there's 80 possible damage.  That'll put a
Critical chest wound in the above average character.  When I want a lethal
situation (which varies by circumstance), I also have an intersting play on
the optional Quick Kill rule (but don't think it applies to small caliber
handguns).

> characters up the level of artillery they carry until they 
> _can_ get a reasonable assurance of putting someone 
> out of the fight. This screws with the assumptions I base 
> my world on when deciding what an average load out is 
> for a cop for instance. 

What assumptions are those?  I'm interested in what others assume for the
police of your average Hi-pop, Average Stellar planet. 

> What I want is a system where people go down when you 
> hit them, but if you get to them quickly enough, you can 
> save them with the wonders of modern medicine. CT 

TNE does this perfectly. They go down in my campaign... especially when we're
talking about combat rifles in trained hands.  TNE is Wound Severity system.
Critical hits (non head) give you 10 minutes to get medical attention
(Formidable Medical (surgery) to reduce a critical wound to serious) or die.
I put a house rule giving head crits 1 minute if there's a success against
Quick Kill.  


Gary

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 03:26:42 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: comparing the versions

On 07/05/98 at 03:45 AM,  TravelrTNE@aol.com said:

>> I would like a combat system where it was possible to 
>> make someone stop shooting at you by hitting them with 
>> a 9mm round to the chest (assuming for the moment that 

>Well that might not be realistic.  9mm are pretty pathetic
>actually...  There are notorious instances of those Samoan guys not
>going down after taking over 20 x 9mm rounds...  Handgun fatalities
>in general are lower than most people think, too.

Gary, the *average* guy isn't going to take multiple 9mm chest shots
and keep coming, or at least they shouldn't in my game.  An
exceptional character might and random variation should allow Joe
average a chance, but not normally.  Maybe it should take multiple
hits from a 5mm to drop the average guy, but 9mm rounds aren't
pinpricks.  ;->

>The 9mm autopistol has a DV of 2.  

Not in the TNE rule books I own.  The 9mm Magnum Revolver is 2, but
the auto pistols are 1.  There might be errata that I missed, but I
specifically looked it up tonight on the table in the in the back of
the TNE basic rules.

As I posted earlier, I think the DV should go up some for handweapons,
and use modifiers.  Something like...

22 pistol (5.6mm)  1d6
32 pistol (8mm)    1d6+1
9mm pistol         2d6
9mm Magnum pistol  2d6+1  (longer short range/less stopping power) 44
pistol (11mm)   2d6+2
45 ACP (11.5mm)    2d6+3  (shorter short range/more stopping power)

...for example.  Can you tell, I'm been around the the 9mm/45ACP
debates over the years?  ;->

>Knockdown says that if you take more damage *points* than current AGL,
>there is a knockdown w/ no other actions for the rest of the current
>turn.

Yep. I'd just like to make it less likely that the bogie will get back
up next turn and keep charging.  Ok!  Ok!  That's why I put another
round or two into him while he's down, right?  ;->

>Average damage points from that 9mm is 7, which is higher than average
>AGL (6).

As I pointed out above, it's only 3.5 if it's not the Magnum revolver,
and won't knock our bogie down even at the maximum roll of 6.  I agree
that it *should* though, which is why I suggested increasing the DV
for handguns.

>Max damage is 12.  Outstanding Success doubles damage,  as does the
>(optional) Quick Kill/Double Damage rule.  There's a potential damage
>of 36 using TNE as printed, which is a Serious chest wound to the
>average (STR 6 CON 6) detailed character.  

It's 37, actually "...more damage than its capacity...", and as a
break point it is significant that even the 2d6 weapon won't *quite*
get there on an average character.  Outstanding Success requires 10
greater than the needed roll, that's not an easy thing to get unless
you're taking an aimed shot at short range.  Even with some training,
Joe Average is going to have an asset of only 9 or 10 isn't he? 

Anyway, look over my other post.  I think we agree in principle,
except I might feel the need to make wounds a lot more serious, and
think medium and heavy pistols should have more oomph, not necessarily
more killing power, but more stopping power.

Eris

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 02:35:05 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: CT surface action

>From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
>Subject: Quick thoughts on combat inside gravity wells
>
>Traveller combat in and around gravity wells is dominated by two
>technologies - the anti-grav module and the meson gun.
>
>I dont think it was the intention of the games designers to make meson guns
>as dominant weapons as they are for ground combat, but under FFS you really
>cant go past a small meson gun as a vehicle weapon. It is trivially easy to
>make a 20 km range meson gun, and the ability to kill armoured targets
>makes the typical Traveller 'grav tank' dead meat.

  But under CT (Striker) meson guns only become vehicle portable at TL 15,
and even then the definition is optimistic.

  Unless, of course, you're attempting to refute Striker, Comrade :)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 02:32:23 -0700
From: Joel Pratt <jpratt@ucla.edu>
Subject: AUCTION: MegaTraveller/DGP (Sol&As, Var&Vil, WBH, SOM, etc.)

AUCTION: MegaTraveller/DGP Items

Rules:
1) Email all bids to jpratt@ucla.edu
2) Purchaser pays ALL shipping charges.
3) American funds only, please, as check or money order.
4) Items will be held until check clears.
5) Bidding will continue until price stops rising. Going/Goingx2/Gone.
6) Email me (jpratt@ucla.edu) if you have any questions.
7) All items are in Excellent to Near Mint condition unless otherwise noted
8) Frequent status updates will be emailed to bidders.
  Mailing list will receive only one update.
9) Thanks for looking.

Items:

GDW STUFF
=========
MT Player's Manual (Minimum Bid: $4)
(Good condition - errata points indicated with highlighter)

MT Referee's Manual (Minimum Bid: $4)
(Good condition - errata points indicated with highlighter)

MT Imperial Encyclopedia (Minimum Bid: $5)

MT Rebellion Sourcebook (Minimum Bid: $5)

MT Referee's Companion (Minimum Bid: $5)

MT COACC (Minimum Bid: $5)

MT Knightfall (Minimum Bid: $5)

MT Fighting Ships of the Shattered Imperium (Minimum Bid: $5)
[Note: I am not responsible for any damage suffered by using or
attempting to reverse-engineer any of the ships detailed within]

MT Hard Times (Minimum Bid: $6)

MT Arrival Vengence (Minimum Bid: $3)

MT Assignment: Vigilante (Minimum Bid: $5)

MT Astrogator's Guide to Diaspora Sector (Minimum Bid: $5)


DGP STUFF
=========
MT Alien Vol. 1: Vilani & Vargr (Minimum Bid: $30)

MT Alien Vol. 2: Solomani & Aslan (Minimum Bid: $30)

MT World Builder's Handbook (Minimum Bid: $40)

MT Starship Operator's Manual (Minimum Bid: $30)

MT 101 Vehicles (Minimum Bid: $20)

MT Flaming Eye (Minimum Bid: $15)

MT Referee's Gaming Kit (Minimum Bid: $10)


Future auctions will include:
 GDW/Traveller boardgames: AHL, I:A, FFW, Imperium, Triplanet, Bloodtree
 Classic Traveller Black Books: Supplements/Adventures/Double Adventures
 Classic Traveller 3rd Party: FASA (incl. Skyraider Trilogy), Paranoia
 Magazines: JTAS, Challenge, Trav Digest, MT Journal
 TNE Books and Battle Rider/Brilliant Lances boardgames

- --Joel Pratt
jpratt@ucla.edu

"Bill Clinton does not have the moral fiber to be a mass murderer."
 -- Nobel Peace Prize recipient Dr. Henry Kissinger, Spring 1997

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 22:22:39 +1200
From: Steve Rennell <wulf@sea.southern.co.nz>
Subject: Re: comparing the versions

I had written:
> > I would like a combat system where it was possible to 
> > make someone stop shooting at you by hitting them with 
> > a 9mm round to the chest (assuming for the moment that 

Gary replied:
> Well that might not be realistic.  9mm are pretty pathetic actually...  There
> are notorious instances of those Samoan guys not going down after taking over
> 20 x 9mm rounds...  Handgun fatalities in general are lower than most people
> think, too.

I wasn't talking about fatalities, I was talking about 
effective stops. From the Cop records study I read in 
some gun magazine (I think it's available on the web, but 
I'm not sure where) the average 9mm was achieving a 1 
shot stop (the bad guy could not return any more fire, nor 
run anywhere) counting only hits to the torso, was about 
50-60% depending on the type of round used. This was 
more or less the same as the Colt .45 ACP. (for every 
story about a 9mm fail-to-stop, there's another one for 
.45's)

On the subject of fatalities though, it's not unknown for 
.22 pistols to achieve instant kills with chest shots. It's 
not common, but it happens. T2K doesn't address this 
very well either.

There is talk that assassins sometimes use .22 pistols 
because they can get in, get a shot in, and leave, and 
they are less likely to be spotted because the signature 
is so low. Characters don't bother with this because they 
need to use a .50 cal slug to get a reasonable chance of 
a kill from a chest hit.
 
> The 9mm autopistol has a DV of 2.  Knockdown says that if you take more damage
> *points* than current AGL, there is a knockdown w/ no other actions for the
> rest of the current turn.  Average damage points from that 9mm is 7, which is
> higher than average AGL (6).  Max damage is 12.  Outstanding Success doubles
> damage,  as does the (optional) Quick Kill/Double Damage rule.  There's a
> potential damage of 36 using TNE as printed, which is a Serious chest wound to
> the average (STR 6 CON 6) detailed character.  

In T2000, a 9mm does DV 1, so that's slightly different, It still means that to put 
out for the fight, I need to achieve a Serious chest hit, 
which you've indicated happens 1 time in 36 on a 
outstanding success, as opposed to about 50% IRL.

> I use D10 for damage and quadruple damage when there's both Outstanding
> Success and Quick Kill... meaning there's 80 possible damage.  

So in other words, the system, as written, doesn't provide 
enough knock down for your tastes?
 
> What assumptions are those?  I'm interested in what others assume for the
> police of your average Hi-pop, Average Stellar planet. 
 
I'd like to have the cops carrying sufficient to put down 
the average person with one hit. In real Life, 9mm is 
adequate for this most of the time. If the same isn't true 
in the game, then the characters (who come loaded with 
sufficient to take someone down in the game system) 
probably can take down the cops without the cops being 
able to command the level of respect necessary to be 
taken seriously. In Traveller, it's more likely to be 
something taser-like. 

> > What I want is a system where people go down when you 
> > hit them, but if you get to them quickly enough, you can 
> > save them with the wonders of modern medicine. CT 
 
> TNE does this perfectly. 

When you change the rules.

> They go down in my campaign... especially when we're
> talking about combat rifles in trained hands.  

No argument with that, but rifles are a different subject to 
pistols (I did once hear a story about someone who 
walked into Emergency with twentysix 5.56mm slugs in 
them. - you want to try modelling that?)

But still I'd like to achieve a certain amount of respect for 
pistols. In the real world no one want's to be shot with 
even a .22, but characters who _know_ a .22 can't take 
them down in one shot are prepared to take more risks.

Steve


- ---
Software is never having to say you're finished.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 23:15:51 +1200
From: Steve Rennell <wulf@sea.southern.co.nz>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>

> On 07/05/98 at 05:03 PM,  Steve Rennell <wulf@sea.southern.co.nz>
> said:
> >I would like a combat system where it was possible to 
> >make someone stop shooting at you by hitting them with 
> >a 9mm round to the chest (assuming for the moment that 
> >they are unarmoured). I'm not asking for a guaranteed 
> >one shot stop, but 50% would be nice. 

Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu> 
> I have to agree with you here, a 45 or 9mm should have a reasonable
> chance of producing a "one shot stop"....and I *like* TNE and by
> extension TW2K, so I'd rather discuss *fixing* the problem. 

(Well, I bought T2000, but after some consideration, I 
think it's a better small unit wargame than a combat 
system for RPG's; So I didn't buy TNE partly because I 
already had (most of) the system, and partly because I 
laughed my ass off over the virus :-)

> By a "one shot stop" I don't mean instant death, necessarily, but a
> heavy slug in the chest really should put most people out of action
> very quickly.  Let's look at this and see what we can come up with.

I think I've been reading the same studies as you. That's 
my definition of a "stop" - something that ends the fight 
for the victim, though not necessarily fatally. 

> First let's assume an average TNE character who has 6 for all stats.
> That gives a Chest Hit Capacity of (6+6)*3 = 36 points.
> To stop this average character with a single chest shot you're going
> to need to get a "Serious Wound" plus an "Unconsciousness roll", a
> "Quick Kill", or at least a "Knockdown."

> Serious Wound -- more than the hit capacity, but less than double, ie.
> 37 to 72 points.  This reduces the Initiative rating by 3 (severely
> limiting their ability to act), and if they fail a continuing 1d100
> against their CON they fall into unconsciousness, ie 93% chance of
> dropping every 30 seconds.  This looks good, but unfortunately, most
> hand weapons can't deliver 36 to 72 points with a single bullet, and
> for it to be about a 50-50 average you'll need a 10d6 weapon.  Look
> one of those up. ;->

My T2k suggests a .50 cal machine gun delivers 8d at 
close range...

> Quick Kill -- "Any shot which hits the chest or head may constitute a
> killing shot.  Roll a d20, if the roll is less than or equal to the
> damage value of the shot, the target is instantly killed except on a
> roll of 20 exactly."  

in T2K it's on a d10 - that makes it a little more deadly... 
followed by "It is recommended that PC's that suffer a 
killing wound instead suffer enough damage to increase 
the wound level of the head or chest to at least serious if 
unwounded, and critical if wounded, in addition to the 
normal damage inflicted by the round."
This suggests that in T2k a pistol hit to the chest on a 
PC would be sufficient to inflict a "serious wound" if the 
kill amount was rolled (a 10% chance).

This has been interpreted two different ways,
> either the damage value mentioned is the number of *dice* rolled, or
> it is the number of *pips* rolled.  

Seems pretty clear that it's number of dice in T2K.

> Ok, what can we do about this problem, for those of us that see it as
> a problem?  (Don't say...play XXX...because XXX probably has similar
> problems. ;-)


(Struggle....)
You could always try CORPS - it is very elegant, and you 
can use (optional) "hero" points to reduce the lethality of 
combat... (Sorry couldn't resist)


> > 1.  Reduce the number of hit point capacity of each body part,
> particularly the chest.  This might be a good idea, but I don't think
> you can drop the numbers enough to have an effect without creating
> other problems.

This was my first reaction. What do you see as the 
problems?
 
> 2.  Increase the amount of damage that weapons deal out.  

This too was my second option, Increasing to d10 ups 
the average dice damage to 5.5, an assault rifle M16 
equiv would be doing ~11 points. Still not enough... 
Combined with halving HP per location (actually, I'd tend 
towards making them less spread out.)

> 3.  Modify Quick Kill to become QUICK STOP, and apply it to *all*
> characters.  

See the T2k rule above.  Still gives a relatively low 
chance of a stop unless you apply it to pips of damage.

> First, a seriously wounded...but conscious...character seems to be
> able to perform many tasks as if they were fresh as a daisy.  T4, MT
> and CT temporarily reduced Attributes due to hits, and that seems like
> a realistic thing to me.  

That was one of the most charming aspects of CT IMO. 

<snip on bleeding>
> How about keep reducing Attributes by one
> each turn as long as a wound isn't "stabilized?"  It's not quite that
> easy, but that's the basic idea.

Sounds not unreasonable. I'd tend to roll against severity 
of damage, modified by amount of activity on the part of 
the victim. "Don't move johnny, you're bleeding bad"
 
> Does this make sense to anybody else?  

To a certain amount, yes.

Steve

- ---
Software is never having to say you're finished.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 07:44:18 -0400
From: "johannes" <johannes@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: fun weapons

- -----Original Message-----
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Sunday, July 05, 1998 1:09 AM
Subject: Re: fun weapons


>In mail you write:
>
>> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>>
>>> Has anybody tried duplicating the weapons in Drake's Hammer's Slammer's
>>> series? I'm mostly thinking of the *non*-powergun stuff. For example,
>>> the "squeeze bore" artillery piece from "Forlorn Hope".
>>>
>>> BTW, here's a great way to flush out the SF fans in a group of players.
>>> Just give them an intel briefing on the mercenary groups in the war on
>>> the planet....
>>>
>>> "Ok, the Slammer's are in sector Alpha and Falkenberg's Legion is in
>>> sector Beta..."
>>>
>>> True fans of military SF will consider suicide about this point... :-)
>>
>> And don't forget that four-letter word from Keith Laumer's books:
>>
>> "Bolo"
>
>Bolos are a bit too high tech for the Imperium.
>


True, although a slightly toned down version (such as the SJG 'Ogre') is
well within even M0's tech level.  A robot tank with nuclear weapons is not
something you'd want coming after you, even if it isn't truely self-aware.

John

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 12:55:17 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: GenCon UK

Rob Day <rob@glisten.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>Any hints as to dates/location for this con?

Loughborough University, 3 to 6 September 1998. WoTC are running it.

>(It doesn't get a mention on the BITS homepage, but as this doesn't look
>like it's been updated this year... :(

BITS will be there for all days except the RPGA members day (ie Wednesday
2nd). We will be running demos and tournaments, and selling Traveller
material.

The home page etc. is lower in priority than the new books ;-)

We will also be at Games Fest 98 in Harlow (18 July 98), demonstrating and
running tournaments.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 12:20:16 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: comparing the versions

Steve Rennell <wulf@sea.southern.co.nz> wrote:

>I would like a combat system where it was possible to
>make someone stop shooting at you by hitting them with
>a 9mm round to the chest (assuming for the moment that
>they are unarmoured). I'm not asking for a guaranteed
>one shot stop, but 50% would be nice. T2000, and by
>extension TNE doesn't achieve this (I only own T2000
>ed2).

In T4 a 9mm hit (if the first hit a player takes) is likely to drop the
player into unconsiousness -

Avg roll for 3D = 10.5

Avg roll for stat 2D = 7 (okay, so this is low because you can raise the
stat in Char gen)

A snub pistol (5D) gives 17.5 avg, but you discard the lowest 2 dice thanks
to the KE limit so it should be the high end of the 3D range, ie >10.5, and
there is also a 1D explosive damage hit simultaneously IIR-EA-C.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #633
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Sunday, July 5 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 634



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: CD-ROM & Campaign Cartographer
Re: fun weapons
Re: fun weapons
Re: Ports and ship construction
Re: comparing the versions
Re: fun weapons
Re: fun weapons
(Off-topic) Web pages
Re: Current Games
Re: comparing the versions
re; A Corsair's Tale
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 11:11:14 EDT
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re: CD-ROM & Campaign Cartographer

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> writes:


>Of course you'll need some version of MS-Dos to run a bunch of the programs,
>or a C compiler handy, as many of the programs include source code.
>
>Speaking of MS-Dos...any Mac folk on the list with enough experience to say
>whether Real PC or Virtual PC work well enough on a PowerMac 7200/75 to
>emulate at least a 386? (All I really need for stuff like Galactic and the
>apps on the CD..I don't _want_ to do Windows at home...I've gotta put up with
>_that_ all day long at work!)
>
>I've got bunches of memory and diskspace...All the reviews I've read of the
>products are by people running Windows or twitch games on it, no one bothers
>to test five year old RPG utilities with it ;-)

  By "bunches" I assume you mean at least 64MB of RAM and a free 200+MB of
hard drive? If so you'll be fine...
 The current versions of both _recommend_ a faster machine, but for exactly
the reasons you mention. Both are Pentium (cue the stupid jingle) emulators
(only Real PCs predecessor SoftWindows, v1 and v2 weren't Pentium emulators).
While I have access to both, and plenty of machines to try them on, I lack the
time to test such things as five-year-old RPG utilities.  More's the shame.
  My general sense is that Virtual PC is more stable. Our local emulator nut
seems to prefer it over the others. By avoiding the Windows versions, however,
BOTH can be had for about $120 total, so trying them both isn't too hideously
expensive.

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 10:26:23 -0700
From: warlock@imagin.net
Subject: Re: fun weapons

johannes wrote:
> >> Leonard Erickson wrote:
> >Bolos are a bit too high tech for the Imperium.
> >
> 
> True, although a slightly toned down version (such as the SJG 'Ogre') is
> well within even M0's tech level.  A robot tank with nuclear weapons is not
> something you'd want coming after you, even if it isn't truely self-aware.

Well, definitely the Mk. 25+ Bolos far outclass anything the
Imperium can throw at them; they can duel (and usually win!)
with warships in orbit. I was thinking of the lesser Marks.
I envision the high-end grav-tanks of the Imperium have some
very smart non-AI computers onboard. Hmmm...now that I think
about it, Slammer's tanks *are* pretty close to want I'm
envisioning though I'd think TL15 armor would be capable of
a little more autonomy (not complete autonomy though).

BTW, Leonard and Pete, thanks for setting me straight on
development of the Web.

Question for the TML:  would grav-tanks be able to engage
in a maneuvering dogfight similar to fighter aircraft or
would they be limited to locking down their turret if they
go above a certain speed in an atmosphere. Technically, these
things can be booted out a cargo bay from low orbit and make
their own way to the planetary surface (can't they?).

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 10:25:10 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: fun weapons

At 10:26 am 7/5/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Question for the TML:  would grav-tanks be able to engage
>in a maneuvering dogfight similar to fighter aircraft or
>would they be limited to locking down their turret if they
>go above a certain speed in an atmosphere. Technically, these
>things can be booted out a cargo bay from low orbit and make
>their own way to the planetary surface (can't they?).

	1. Why dogfight? The reason aircraft dogfight is to bring their
fixed weapons to bear. Since the pilot can't fly and aim a turret at
the same time, the weapon is rigid inside the plane, and to hit he
has to point the plane at the enemy. The enemy, naturally, tries to
avoid being the pointee and hopes to return the favor. On the other
hand, a grav tank, with high-tech stabilized weapons and fire
control, can aim its weapons independently of the direction it's
facing. Of course, there's going to be jinking and maneuvering to try
to screw up the other guy's fire control, but it's not going to be a
classic airplane ball'o'string trying to line your nose up on the
other guy.

	2. Yes, above a certain airspeed, turret weapons, etc. have to be
locked down. However, you can still use fixed weapons ... which leads
you back into the dogfighting realm. However, I'm not sure most grav
vehicle combat will be conducted at those high speeds, unless you're
trying to escape.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 10:20:17 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Ports and ship construction

Steve Rennell wrote:
 
> You can't get less for a sheep than to sell it live, so New
> Zealand does. You can't get less for timber than to sell it
> unprocessed, so New Zealand does. New Zealand was
> the only place in the world that grew Kiwifruit, so we sold
> some breeding plants to Chile, and now they are taking
> over our markets.

Yoou also have to look at it this way: it's also cheapest to sell sheep live,
and timber unprocessed. Post production processing requires capital
investments and an infrastructure to support those investments.

_Most_ raw materials, especially large livestock, are not processed by the
original 'manufacturer', but are raised by one business and sold to another
for further processing. (In the case of some things, like cattle, there might
be five or more middlemen betwixt that cow on the range and that plastic
wrapped steak on your grocers shelf).

The kiwi fruit thing is simply a matter of marketing, cost of production, and
in the case of the US market favorable trade regulations (In return for
destroying a 150 year history of peaceful, democratic, civilian government,
instituting a 20 year reign of terror and death, and ohbytheway not
nationalizing US copper interests, the US gave Chile a berth in NAFTA,
markedly lowering trade barriers to the US market.)

Besides, trying to keep the kiwi fruit exclusive to New Zealand would have
required a level of government opression unlikely to be tolerated by the
populace, as the kiwi trees would have to be declared state property. 

Fruitless, as well, because if nothing else, you're exporting tons of kiwi
seed with the fruit.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 10:24:41 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: comparing the versions

At 03:45 AM 7/5/98 EDT, you wrote:

>Well that might not be realistic.  9mm are pretty pathetic actually...
There are notorious instances of those Samoan guys not going down after
taking over 20 x 9mm rounds...  Handgun fatalities in general are lower
than most people think, too.
 
One of the hardest things to model in games.  I use CORPS because it does a
good job of handling the various odd things that bullets do.

A veteran LAPD officer was  shot in the foot with a .22.  The bullet was
visible under the skin.  The officer died of shock before he could reach a
hospital.

In New York City, a man was shot in the forehead from a distance of about
two feet by a .45 caliber pistol.  The bullet deflected off the man's
skull, traveled around his head under the skin, and exited the rear of his
head.  The gunman, seeing an entrance and exit wound, assumed his target
was dead.  The target awoke, and walked to a hospital.

These are extreme examples, but show what you face when you talk about
modeling bullet wounds.

- --


+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+-------------------------------------+
| "Some days, you just can't get rid  |
|  of a bomb!"                        |
|     -Adam West, the REAL Batman     |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 10:39:06 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: fun weapons

At 10:26 AM 7/5/98 -0700, you wrote:

>I envision the high-end grav-tanks of the Imperium have some
>very smart non-AI computers onboard. Hmmm...now that I think
>about it, Slammer's tanks *are* pretty close to want I'm
>envisioning though I'd think TL15 armor would be capable of
>a little more autonomy (not complete autonomy though).

And every soldier has heard about the Trepedia that shot out of nowhere to
stop the Zhodani advance with incredible fire, and when they pried the
hatches open, the crew had been dead for hours...

>Question for the TML:  would grav-tanks be able to engage
>in a maneuvering dogfight similar to fighter aircraft or
>would they be limited to locking down their turret if they
>go above a certain speed in an atmosphere. Technically, these
>things can be booted out a cargo bay from low orbit and make
>their own way to the planetary surface (can't they?).

IMTU, there is a definite line between grav-tanks and speeders.  G-tanks
make maximum use of cover to get close enough to engage the enemy.  Speeder
go balls to the wall to deliver smaller payloads.

The game Renegade Legion: Prefect has an interesting section on combat
between grav formations.  Basically, units probe and shift, waiting for
good intel on the enemy main force, with many small meeting engagements.
Once you have a fix on the enemy, you attack with everything hoping to
catch him off-balance.  On this scale, a single division front would run
the length of California (800 miles, more or less, compared to the modern
division front of 5-10 miles.)

Units that "go high", i.e. get out of NOE flight, move much faster, but are
easy targets.  In Traveller, this would from orbital fire, remote MRLS
equipped with anti-armor "chaser" missiles, and every line-of-sight weapon
that can see you.  Going high is reserved for desperate dashes to a
critical area, and even then you go low hundreds of miles from the FEBA
(Forward Edge of the Battlefield Area.)

Tanks can de-orbit themselves, but I tend to use assault shuttles that are
optimized for atmospheric flight that get down to about 40,000ft (on a size
8, atmosphere 6 world) before dumping their eggs.  These vessels can also
drop dead fall ordinance while they're on site, causing difficulties for
any defenders directly below the release point.  Of course, by the time you
are dropping tanks, the Marines should have secured a landing field for you.

- --

+------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
+------------------------------------------+
| "or it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' | 
| "Chuck him out, the brute!"              |
| But it's "Saviour of 'is country"        |
| when the guns begin to shoot;"           |
+------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 13:00:48 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net>
Subject: Re: fun weapons

At 10:26 AM 7/5/98 -0700, warlock@imagin.net wrote:
>johannes wrote:
>> >> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> >Bolos are a bit too high tech for the Imperium.
>> >
>> 
>> True, although a slightly toned down version (such as the SJG 'Ogre') is
>> well within even M0's tech level.  A robot tank with nuclear weapons is not
>> something you'd want coming after you, even if it isn't truely self-aware.
>
>Well, definitely the Mk. 25+ Bolos far outclass anything the
>Imperium can throw at them; they can duel (and usually win!)
>with warships in orbit. I was thinking of the lesser Marks.
>I envision the high-end grav-tanks of the Imperium have some
>very smart non-AI computers onboard. Hmmm...now that I think
>about it, Slammer's tanks *are* pretty close to want I'm
>envisioning though I'd think TL15 armor would be capable of
>a little more autonomy (not complete autonomy though).

Yes the lower model numbered Bolos are design able in MT/CT. I used a
collapsing rounds for the Hellbores, 20cm to 30cm in size Mass Drivers with
max ROF, Multiple Nuclear Dampers batteries, and batteries of small calibre
(<= 1cm)MD guns for infinite repeaters, and due to the amount of armor is
used track ie tread units.

It was no design able until about TL12, but the Mark 1 and 2's can be done
at lower TL's. As for the robotic brains I used the Robots book design
sequence, at lower TL the robot brain's were pretty pathetic but at higher
TL's ie 14-15 the robot brains were adequate.

>snip<
>Question for the TML:  would grav-tanks be able to engage
>in a maneuvering dogfight similar to fighter aircraft or
>would they be limited to locking down their turret if they
>go above a certain speed in an atmosphere. Technically, these
>things can be booted out a cargo bay from low orbit and make
>their own way to the planetary surface (can't they?).

Yes they could dogfight other craft, depending on their speed they might
have to stow their large turrets, but also their type of configuration will
also have an effect on the max speed. It has been done in the past designs
a high speed grav fighter.

Sinbad Sam
sinbad@hex.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 11:03:15 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: (Off-topic) Web pages

Sorry for the off-topic post, but I've just finished revising my home page
and need feedback from people.  Especially from folks using different/odd
browsers.  URL in sig, and please email comments to avoid wasting anymore
bandwidth.
- --

Douglas Berry
dberry@hooked.net
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry
Domo Arigato, Mr Roboto...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 11:39:20 -0700
From: Richard Hough <richardh@walmsley.carcinogenic.com>
Subject: Re: Current Games

>Are you currently playing in or GMing a Traveller game?  If you are,
>how about posting a brief synopsis of it to the list.

My campaign is estivating for the summer, but I can give a synopsis of the
story line.

The Sylean Federation is paralyzed by a conflict in the moot between a
expansionist faction led by the charismatic Cleon Zhunastu and an
isolationist faction led by the Marquess Aurion. The Sylean Federation
Scout Service (SFSS) is wracked by allegations of corruption and
incompetence; they are being sued by a shipping company for false survey
data and the Navy is maneuvering to take over gathering survey data and
reassign the SFSS only to collating.

Meanwhile, the Interstellar Confederacy is self-destructing from
independance movements, the legacy of an extremely divisive civil war.
There are persistent rumors the movements are receiving outside assistance.

I am trying to use troupe-style play. Each player has two characters, and I
allow them to run important NPCs. This has been very useful in that I don't
have to arrange for the same people to always have to show up at all
important events. There is a tendency for players to use NPCs to help out
their own characters, but I haven't decided if this is a problem or not.

So far, the players are a collection of scouts, technicians, and minor
bureaucrats who have survived a purge of non-Syleans in the scout service.
Recently they have all been hired to upgrade the starport on Adgu Uun, a
newly independant Confederacy system. It must be important, because a
member of the moot and a squadron of Navy vessels, including a 100 000 dton
Obsidian class destroyer, are there to oversee the operation.

An important subplot is Rampant Interstellar Piracy! Yes, despite the fact
that Federation planets have hundreds of SDBs, merchants are armed, and
multi-kiloton warships patrol the starlines, hardly a month goes by without
headlines proclaiming another ship lost to this scourge. While none of the
players has ever seen a pirate, knows no one who has ever seen a pirate,
and there has never been a pirate attack on a Federation system in living
memory, everyone KNOWS they are out there. Where else are all the ships
disappearing to? Just recently a free trader was reported lost 2 subsectors
outside the borders. The Federation must expand its borders to protect
itself!

The rules system is T4 plus whatever sounds good at the moment.
IMTU t4+ ru ge+ !3i(3i++) jt-- au+ ls- 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 14:04:00 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: comparing the versions

On 07/05/98 at 10:24 AM,  dberry@hooked.net said:

>One of the hardest things to model in games.  I use CORPS because it
>does a good job of handling the various odd things that bullets do.

Doug, I just can't get into CORPS...and I've tried. I'd rather use
GURPS in all it's advanced rule glory than CORPS for gun combat, and
quite frankly, I'd rather *not* use GURPS for gun combat. ;-> I guess
it's a different strokes kind of thing. The TNE|TW2K and T4 rules,
with modifications naturally ;->, just *feel* better to me. 

>A veteran LAPD officer was  shot in the foot with a .22.  The bullet
>was visible under the skin.  The officer died of shock before he
>could reach a hospital.

Yes, continuing damage from shock and bleeding should be included
somehow.  Very rare for slight wounds, like from a .22, but
*possible*, and more common and faster for more serious wounds from
medium and heavy pistols and rifles.

>In New York City, a man was shot in the forehead from a distance of
>about two feet by a .45 caliber pistol.  The bullet deflected off the
>man's skull, traveled around his head under the skin, and exited the
>rear of his head.  The gunman, seeing an entrance and exit wound,
>assumed his target was dead.  The target awoke, and walked to a
>hospital.

And yes, the converse should be true as well.  A .45 (or 7.62 rifle)
bullet to the head at point blank range should not always kill the
target, almost always, but with a *chance* of survival.

Probably, the easiest what to handle it is GM fiat, but not everybody
*likes* that idea. ;->  So, we keep tinkering.

BTW, what ever became of the detailed combat system you were working
on for T4?  Did you drop it when IG went south, or are you just
holding off on it until T4.1 comes out?

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 15:05:31 -0400
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: re; A Corsair's Tale

Hans Rancke wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
First question: How big is Colchis' economy and how significant is the
trade partners on a planetary scale? That is, Colchis' scale?

>so we ran circuits through these worlds, showing a flag and playing beat
>cop in the lawless outer systems of these backwater worlds.

If these world are too primitive to have anything more than Class E
starports, how do they manage to have any significant in-system traffic?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Colchis is probably pop-7 or so, a planet that has got as big as it is
likely to get - unless the Technarch takeover provides a stimulus to the
society/economy. TL 10 to 12? Whatever combination of population,
tech level, and trade makes the following possible. Note that I didn't
say _sensible_, I said _possible_.

It's quite possible that the trading partners of Colchis have very little
in-system traffic at all. Most of the Interstellar Flotilla's role was
probably making the Self-Perpetuating Oligrachy on Colchis feel
like some kind of Interstellar Power, rather than actually fulfilling any
useful purpose. How many nations on Earth have no electricity in
most of their people's homes, yet try to buy modern attack aircraft?

Hans again...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
OK. So the population of Colchis is so small that their entire navy
consists of a couple of (presumably quite large) SDBs and a handful of
patrol cruisers, yet it is the largest system in the subsector? That
sounds somewhat anomalous for an Imperial subsector. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Colchis may be the largest, except for some big systems (like Hamovar)
on the edges of the subsector that perform the overwhelming percent
of their trade with the better-developed subsectors next door. To the
dispossessed crews kicked out of Colchis, they may think of Colchis
and the planets two or three parsecs around (the ones they visit all the
time) as "their" subsector.

Look at District 268 in the Spinward Marches. A subsector with one
medium-sized planet as the biggest britches around is impossible
with the random subsector generation presented by Traveller, but if
you generate the entire sector and then move the planets around to
make things interesting (or even sensible) you can get frontier
or backwater sectors like this with ease.

Hans again:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Ever try to fulfill promises of an Air/Raft in every garage when someone
>is nailing your grav module cargos?

So these worlds that Colchis trades with has populations too small to
afford a single small SDB, bout they are big enough to specialize in
their production to the point that Colchis finds it cheaper to import
grav modules rather than build them itself?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The first officer may have been waxing poetic at this point. Also, she
may have been talking about hitting cargo ships that couldn't make the
jump-3 from Hamovar at one go, and had to stop and refuel at one
(or more) of the hinterworlds along the way.

Hans again:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
How many intermediate stops from Hamovar to Colchis? All Colchis (or
Hamovar) needs to be able protect merchant traffic is one sufficiently
big task force in each intermediate system. BTW. what is Hamovar doing
about the disruption of its trade?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Colchis lost most of it's interstellar navy during the coup (all ten to twenty
sub-1000, or even sub-600tn ships of it) - all were crewed or at least
officered by members of the old ruling class. They're probably looking
around for a way to replace their navy, and they will eventually - but it
was faster to file a complaint with the Sector Admiral and get a navy 
patrol flotilla to make a sweep.
Hamovar? It may not have even noticed the trade problems with Colchis.
As I was saying, Colchis is of prime importance to her inhabitants,
and almost irrelevant to anyone else. 
I see two to three jump-1 from Hamovar to Colchis, and this route being
underdeveloped worlds with little besides refueling stations. There may
be other routes as well, especially if the Colchis government is trying
alternate routes to reopen interstellar trade.

Hans again:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
BTW. I suppose the old Colchis government was
silly enough not to have any reserve ships laid up in ordinary?
Because if they had, the Technarchs could have recommisioned those ships
(equivalent to anything from 50% to 800% of the active peacetime navy
depending on your assumptions) and used them. I admit that it will take
quite a while before Colchis can build new ships. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Considering how small the Colchis military budget was, they were
probably using ships they purchased from the mothball fleet of some
other planet. They may have some hangar queens lying around, but
everything that could make jump-1 was in the flotilla.
Old Colchis couldn't afford the navy they had. They also couldn't afford
the manor houses, offworld educations and other trappings of their
ruling class. That's one of the reasons they have a new government.

Hans again:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Colchis don't need to chase the rebels down to protect their trade. All
they need are ships that can outfight them. And since they no longer
have to support the rebels, they can afford to hire about the same
weight and quality in starmercs as they lost to the rebels. So unless
_all_ the jump-capable ships in the Colchis fleet rebelled, they
outnumber the rebels.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Let's see - Colchis has just seen a change in government. It's off-world
bond rating (due to the chaos and uncertainty, as well as the loss of
many merchant ships going to or from Colchis) is in the dumpster,
and the new government goes through the books and finds out just
how deep in debt the old ruling class put them before the coup.
Colchis wasn't paying rent on those starships, they *owned* them - 
the loss of the Interstellar Flotilla doesn't indicate any funds being
available to hire an equal weight of starmercs.

Starmercs cost more to operate than a navy of your own costs to
maintain, at every unit size. You pay the premium because you only
pay the starmerc when you need him,. you pay the navy all the time.
I make three to five times as much per hour when I freelance for a few
hours than I make an hour when I'm at my place of usual employ.
If you own a navy, then lose it, the operating fund for that navy isn't going
to replace it for a very, very long time.

The new government of Colchis tried some short-term, piecemeal
solutions (we have enough MCr to hire one Starmerc ship. Oops, he
got blown up. OK, we just got enough MCr together to hire another
one. Hmmm, he hasn't come back either...). Eventually, one of their
representatives made a plea that was heard at a Navy base, and 
something better than starmercs showed up - Imperial Destroyer Escorts.
For the corsairs of Colchis, that was the end - those who weren't caught
fled for far subsectors and some continued the only thing they thought
they could do, piracy.

I was painting an unusual, short-term situation that could not (and did
not) last. One of the after-effects of the coup on Colchis was the
creation of a small starship flotilla, crewed by embittered men and
outlawed by both their homeworld and the Imperium. Modify the details
to make it work, I was trying to develop an idea as to one possible source
of illegal ship-takers.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 14:27:44 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

On 07/05/98 at 11:15 PM,  Steve Rennell <wulf@sea.southern.co.nz>
said:

>> I have to agree with you here, a 45 or 9mm should have a reasonable
>> chance of producing a "one shot stop"....and I *like* TNE and by
>> extension TW2K, so I'd rather discuss *fixing* the problem. 

>(Well, I bought T2000, but after some consideration, I 
>think it's a better small unit wargame than a combat 
>system for RPG's; So I didn't buy TNE partly because I 
>already had (most of) the system, and partly because I 
>laughed my ass off over the virus :-)

Fair enough, but as I said I like TNE|TW2K, so I'm in fix it, not
forget it mode.  ;->

>> By a "one shot stop" I don't mean instant death, necessarily, but a
>> heavy slug in the chest really should put most people out of action
>> very quickly.  Let's look at this and see what we can come up with.

>I think I've been reading the same studies as you. That's  my
>definition of a "stop" - something that ends the fight  for the
>victim, though not necessarily fatally. 

Yes, and to be honest I want PC's to fear hand guns more, too.

>> Quick Kill -- "Any shot which hits the chest or head may constitute a
>> killing shot.  Roll a d20, if the roll is less than or equal to the
>> damage value of the shot, the target is instantly killed except on a
>> roll of 20 exactly."  

>in T2K it's on a d10 - that makes it a little more deadly... 

Where?  I couldn't find it today in TW2K when I tried to find it.

>Seems pretty clear that it's number of dice in T2K.

Change it to pips and watch the danger increase! ;-> 

>> Ok, what can we do about this problem, for those of us that see it as
>> a problem?  (Don't say...play XXX...because XXX probably has similar
>> problems. ;-)

>(Struggle....)

You should have tried harder! ;->

>You could always try CORPS - it is very elegant, and you  can use
>(optional) "hero" points to reduce the lethality of  combat... (Sorry
>couldn't resist)

As I posted to Doug, I just can't get into CORPS.  It doesn't feel
elegant to *me*, most folks like it, but it just doesn't do it for me.

>> > 1.  Reduce the number of hit point capacity of each body part,
>> particularly the chest.  This might be a good idea, but I don't think
>> you can drop the numbers enough to have an effect without creating
>> other problems.

>This was my first reaction. What do you see as the problems?

The big one for me is incidental and non-combat damage takes PC's out
too fast.  For example, in a brawl characters should be able to take a
few punches to various body parts without falling down dead.  ;-> So,
I'd like the damage capacity to be high, but have a secondary factor
that comes into play for certain kinds and amounts damage.  Let's say,
on cutting and penetrating attacks that do more than 5 points of
damage the possibility of continuing damage exists from shock and
bleeding.
 
>> 2.  Increase the amount of damage that weapons deal out.  

>This too was my second option, Increasing to d10 ups 
>the average dice damage to 5.5, an assault rifle M16 
>equiv would be doing ~11 points. Still not enough... 

Nope, and I don't have dozens of d10's, like I do d6's.  ;-> I really
want to stay with an xD6+y model for damage.

>Combined with halving HP per location (actually, I'd tend  towards
>making them less spread out.)

I don't think changing HP is the way to go, as I mentioned above.
Another idea I've tinkered with is having a second damage track for
Systemic damage (knockout, shock, bleeding, etc). 

>> 3.  Modify Quick Kill to become QUICK STOP, and apply it to *all*
>> characters.  

>See the T2k rule above.  Still gives a relatively low 
>chance of a stop unless you apply it to pips of damage.

Take a look at the one I posted using the total pips.  Using the pips
just makes more sense to me anyway than using the number of dice.

>> First, a seriously wounded...but conscious...character seems to be
>> able to perform many tasks as if they were fresh as a daisy.  T4, MT
>> and CT temporarily reduced Attributes due to hits, and that seems like
>> a realistic thing to me.  

>That was one of the most charming aspects of CT IMO. 

Yes, it is..T4 as well. Realistic too, IMO.

><snip on bleeding>
>> How about keep reducing Attributes by one
>> each turn as long as a wound isn't "stabilized?"  It's not quite that
>> easy, but that's the basic idea.

>Sounds not unreasonable. I'd tend to roll against severity  of
>damage, modified by amount of activity on the part of  the victim.
>"Don't move johnny, you're bleeding bad"

Details?  What do you roll?  How do you determine severity of damage
and what activity modifiers do you apply?

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 15:54:21 -0400
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

Eris Reddoch wrote:

> On 07/05/98 at 05:03 PM,  Steve Rennell <wulf@sea.southern.co.nz>
> said:
>
> >I would like a combat system where it was possible to
> >make someone stop shooting at you by hitting them with
> >a 9mm round to the chest (assuming for the moment that
> >they are unarmoured). I'm not asking for a guaranteed
> >one shot stop, but 50% would be nice.
>
> I have to agree with you here, a 45 or 9mm should have a reasonable
> chance of producing a "one shot stop"....and I *like* TNE and by
> extension TW2K, so I'd rather discuss *fixing* the problem.
>
> By a "one shot stop" I don't mean instant death, necessarily, but a
> heavy slug in the chest really should put most people out of action
> very quickly.  Let's look at this and see what we can come up with.

I believe the concept you are looking for is called"Hydrostatic Shock."  Its
been a while since I read anything about
this.  IIRC, is has to do with the fact that the human body is mostly
water, by mass.  A shot to the torso can cause general systemic
shock, i.e., temporary unconcsciousness, usually of very short
duration, although that can vary.

I can't vouch for my sources as I don't recall them.

Having said that, even current body armor does a great deal to minimize
the damage.  I saw last year a new type of body armor that is amazing.
The maker of if, shot himself in the belly with a 357 Magnum Revolver.
The body armor stuffing, 'puffed' out from where the bullet struck.
But the man was only knocked back a step and mildly winded.
Of course, he was braced, but still amazing results.

[snip]

> Does this make sense to anybody else?

Yes, generally.  I don't play TNE but your points are well taken.About the
reduction of attributes, I agree and like that T4, etc.
reduce specific attributes.  But I think that there ought to be
some reduction in effective intelligence or education (for skill tests only),
as a result of Stress, Shock, Fatigue, etc.  I know that I can't recite
pi to the 4th digit after being on the bottom of a rugby scrum.  I know
the answer but getting the old noodle to kick out the correct answer
is a bit difficult.

I wonder if Marc is going to revise combat for T4.1?

Bloo

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #634
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Sunday, July 5 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 635



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: comparing the versions
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Dumb things people do.
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Re: Grenadier Traveller figure sets
Re: Armed Merchants
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Re: fun weapons
Re: CT surface action
Re: Quick thoughts on combat inside gravity wells
Re Old Dos Software on a Mac
[none]
TNE COmbat Fixes
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Re: fun weapons
Re: Ports and ship construction

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 13:09:32 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: comparing the versions

At 02:04 PM 7/5/98 -0500, you wrote:

>BTW, what ever became of the detailed combat system you were working
>on for T4?  Did you drop it when IG went south, or are you just
>holding off on it until T4.1 comes out?

At Close Quarters is nearing completion, and hopefully will be published by
BITS.

I need people who will actually playtest the thing.  Not ask me for the
file and then never reply.
- --

Douglas Berry
dberry@hooked.net
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry
Domo Arigato, Mr Roboto...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 15:33:54 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

On 07/05/98 at 03:54 PM,  Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu> said:

>> By a "one shot stop" I don't mean instant death, necessarily, but a
>> heavy slug in the chest really should put most people out of action
>> very quickly.  Let's look at this and see what we can come up with.

>I believe the concept you are looking for is called"Hydrostatic
>Shock."  Its been a while since I read anything about this.  

That's part, but not all of it. 

>IIRC, is has to do with the fact that the human body is mostly
>water, by mass.  A shot to the torso can cause general systemic
>shock, i.e., temporary unconcsciousness, usually of very short
>duration, although that can vary.

It has something to do with supersonic waves in the circulatory
system, IIRC. 

>I can't vouch for my sources as I don't recall them.

I can talk from personal experience about being knocked out...once
from a kick to the head, once from a blow to the chest, twice from
having the "wind knocked out of me" and three times from heat
exhaustion...yeah, I must have low END, but I'm not that atypical. 
;-> In each case, I was only *out* for a few seconds, but I can tell
you I wasn't worth much for the next hour or two afterwards.  Without
any doubt in my mind, a 9mm to the chest would drop me like a rock,
maybe not instantly, but within seconds just from a shock reaction. 

>Having said that, even current body armor does a great deal to
>minimize the damage.  I saw last year a new type of body armor that
>is amazing. The maker of if, shot himself in the belly with a 357
>Magnum Revolver. The body armor stuffing, 'puffed' out from where the
>bullet struck. But the man was only knocked back a step and mildly
>winded. Of course, he was braced, but still amazing results.

Oh, I agree about body armor (on a theoretical level, not having
experienced the effect ;-), but we're talking about hits without armor
here.

>About the reduction of attributes, I agree and like that T4,
>etc. reduce specific attributes.  But I think that there ought to be
>some reduction in effective intelligence or education (for skill
>tests only), as a result of Stress, Shock, Fatigue, etc.  I know that
>I can't recite pi to the 4th digit after being on the bottom of a
>rugby scrum.  I know the answer but getting the old noodle to kick
>out the correct answer is a bit difficult.

Absolutely!  Most people just don't think all that clearly after
taking a blow, especially to the head.  

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 08:14:12 +1200
From: Steve Rennell <wulf@sea.southern.co.nz>
Subject: Dumb things people do.

> Steve Rennell wrote:
> > You can't get less for a sheep than to sell it live, so New
> > Zealand does. You can't get less for timber than to sell it
> > unprocessed, so New Zealand does. New Zealand was
> > the only place in the world that grew Kiwifruit, so we sold
> > some breeding plants to Chile, and now they are taking
> > over our markets.
 
Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> replied
> Yoou also have to look at it this way: it's also cheapest to sell sheep live,
> and timber unprocessed. Post production processing requires capital
> investments and an infrastructure to support those investments.

But we have meat works shutting down through lack of 
work, and timber mills doing likewise. It's what New 
Zealand has specialised at for 100 years.
 
I'm not sure that it is cheaper to sell meat live - it's quite 
a difficult thing to ship sheep to Saudi Arabia without 
losing 30% of them to travel stress en-route.

> The kiwi fruit thing is simply a matter of marketing, cost of production, and
> in the case of the US market favorable trade regulations 

> Besides, trying to keep the kiwi fruit exclusive to New Zealand would have
> required a level of government opression unlikely to be tolerated by the
> populace, as the kiwi trees would have to be declared state property. 

Not at all, America does such things by delcaring things 
"munitions" and preventing those products from being 
exported. (Can you spell PGP?) 

New Zealand also has (had?) laws about many fruits 
requiring that they can/could only be sold overseas 
through the National marketing board. The theory was 
that our producers would be prevented from competing 
with each other, thus guaranteeing higher prices for 
everyone rather than dropping the price as far as possible.

> Fruitless, as well, because if nothing else, you're exporting tons of kiwi
> seed with the fruit.

Not exactly. Due to  some barely understood process (by 
me anyway) you need to have male and female plants to 
produce fruit, and the seeds from the fruit produce only 
female (This is from long ago memory, and may be 
incorrect.)  - there was something strange about them 
which meant we had to ship out "breeding pairs" to screw 
up our monopoly, so we did.

Steve


- -----
More, more, I'm still not satisfied...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 08:36:26 +1200
From: Steve Rennell <wulf@sea.southern.co.nz>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

From:           	Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>

> >> Quick Kill -- "Any shot which hits the chest or head may constitute a
> >> killing shot.  Roll a d20, if the roll is less than or equal to the
> >> damage value of the shot, the target is instantly killed except on a
> >> roll of 20 exactly."  
> 
> >in T2K it's on a d10 - that makes it a little more deadly... 
> 
> Where?  I couldn't find it today in TW2K when I tried to find it.

In my copy it's page 198 column 3, about half way down 
under a subhead "Quick Kill:" (Note that I have 2nd Ed, 
Rev 1 - I don't know if that's important. It bugs me that 
they changed a number of important things in rev 1, and 
the only way you'll know is if you read the fine print on 
page 4, or have an argument about how many skills your 
special forces guy is allowed to get (since it changes 
between ed 2 and ed2 rev1)
 
> >Seems pretty clear that it's number of dice in T2K.
> Change it to pips and watch the danger increase! ;-> 

But only for aimed shots - consider making it happen for 
any shot?

> As I posted to Doug, I just can't get into CORPS.  It doesn't feel
> elegant to *me*, most folks like it, but it just doesn't do it for me.


[reduce HP per location] 
> >This was my first reaction. What do you see as the problems?
> 
> The big one for me is incidental and non-combat damage takes PC's out
> too fast.  For example, in a brawl characters should be able to take a
> few punches to various body parts without falling down dead.  ;-> So,
> I'd like the damage capacity to be high, but have a secondary factor
> that comes into play for certain kinds and amounts damage.  Let's say,
> on cutting and penetrating attacks that do more than 5 points of
> damage the possibility of continuing damage exists from shock and
> bleeding.

It seems to me that the problem then is the difference 
between damage weapons do and damage that punch 
ups and falls do is not different enough. It doesn't matter 
how many HP you have, one of the problems will still be 
there. Perhaps you need a shock system, where if you 
get damaged you have a chance of fallking down and 
being uninterested in much for 20 minutes or so.

> Nope, and I don't have dozens of d10's, like I do d6's.  ;-> I really
> want to stay with an xD6+y model for damage.


> Take a look at the one I posted using the total pips.  Using the pips
> just makes more sense to me anyway than using the number of dice.

I can see that. A well aimed hand gun is more dangerous 
than a poorly aimed rifle...
 
> Details?  What do you roll?  How do you determine severity of damage
> and what activity modifiers do you apply?

I'll need to remember back to what I did, and I'm running 
late for work. I'll try and do something about it in the next 
couple of days.

Steve


- ---
Software is never having to say you're finished.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 13:59:21 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Grenadier Traveller figure sets

  While we're at least vaguely discussing the old Grenadier licensed
Traveller figure sets I figure I might as well ask if anyone has any
space (presumably on a web-site) for digital photos of the Imperial
Marines (1001) and Adventurers (1002) sets?

  I shot them using an Olympus D-600 L in the top two quality modes
(SHQ/HQ), set to macro focus. After cropping them down they're now
400K TIF files each, but I can easily cut them down to 35K JPG's or
so. Quality is pretty good (except for the inadequately lit background)
 - the camera was able to pick up details that my eyes can hardly
discern anymore. The paint jobs aren't too embarassing (except perhaps
1002/T-16 :> ) for stuff painted 10-15 years ago, and the Marines are
at least fairly close to the box cover illo pattern.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 10:21:46 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Armed Merchants

>02 Jul 1998 02:53:57 -0700, shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
>>  Wait a second . I've been supporting the "opportunistic pirate" for
>>some time, and I'll continue to do so until I'm convinced one way or
>>another as to its' viability, but at the same time I can't see why I
>>should conform to the "wandering monster table" approach to actual
>>pirate attack frequency.
>
>I agree.  The table in CT gives something like a 5% chance per jump.
>that means a merchant could expect to get attacked by a pirate once
>per year, which I regard as way too high.  However, I see the
>table as more of a _PC_ encounter table, not a statement of
>the actualy frequency of piracy.  My assumption has always been
>that (with the exception of turbulent times, commerce raiding,
>Vargr incursions, etc.) a merchant will likely go his entire
>career without being attacked.  Assuming a 40 year career and
>25 jumps per year, that is at most a 0.1% chance.
>

What is means, IMTU, is that roughly 1 in 20 encounters will be with craft
with piratically inclined crews, and interaction is dependant upon local
SysNavy, ImpNavy, and IISS forcelevels, local laws, crew and skipper
attitude de jur morale, and apparent weakness of the craft encountering
them... and only some 3-5% of pirate encounters result in hostility to the
encountering vessel, barring unforseen PC actions (like opening fire for no
reason... had some do that... not even to "Pirate" entires... Gave me an
excuse to execute them for Treason, when they shot down a subsector duke's
yeacht...).

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 17:20:41 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

On 07/06/98 at 08:36 AM,  Steve Rennell <wulf@sea.southern.co.nz>
said:

>> Where?  I couldn't find it today in TW2K when I tried to find it.

>In my copy it's page 198 column 3, about half way down 
>under a subhead "Quick Kill:" (Note that I have 2nd Ed,  Rev 1 - I
>don't know if that's important. 

Must be, because it isn't in my copy of TW2K, 2nd Ed., <sigh> second
time today!  Had the same sort of problem with TNE.  That's what I get
for buying when games first come out, before they revise everything
and republish.  ;-> It sounds like the version you have is even closer
to TNE's first printing.  Tell me does the autofire rule use a handful
of D6's, D10's or D20's?

>> >Seems pretty clear that it's number of dice in T2K.
>> Change it to pips and watch the danger increase! ;-> 

>But only for aimed shots - consider making it happen for  any shot?

Oh, do it for all head and chest shots!  Doesn't matter whether you
aimed there or rolled on the hit location table, a head or chest shot
is all the same. ;->

>[reduce HP per location] 
>> >This was my first reaction. What do you see as the problems?
>> 
>> The big one for me is incidental and non-combat damage takes PC's out
>> too fast.  For example, in a brawl characters should be able to take a
>> few punches to various body parts without falling down dead.  ;-> So,
>> I'd like the damage capacity to be high, but have a secondary factor
>> that comes into play for certain kinds and amounts damage.  Let's say,
>> on cutting and penetrating attacks that do more than 5 points of
>> damage the possibility of continuing damage exists from shock and
>> bleeding.

>It seems to me that the problem then is the difference 
>between damage weapons do and damage that punch 
>ups and falls do is not different enough. It doesn't matter  how many
>HP you have, one of the problems will still be  there. Perhaps you
>need a shock system, where if you  get damaged you have a chance of
>fallking down and 
>being uninterested in much for 20 minutes or so.

Yep, that's probably the case.

>> Take a look at the one I posted using the total pips.  Using the pips
>> just makes more sense to me anyway than using the number of dice.

>I can see that. A well aimed hand gun is more dangerous  than a
>poorly aimed rifle...

A well aimed, or lucky, hand gun shot.  ;->


Eris

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 13:22:52 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: fun weapons

In mail you write:

> Question for the TML:  would grav-tanks be able to engage
> in a maneuvering dogfight similar to fighter aircraft or
> would they be limited to locking down their turret if they
> go above a certain speed in an atmosphere. Technically, these
> things can be booted out a cargo bay from low orbit and make
> their own way to the planetary surface (can't they?).

Actually, it's possible that like the existing ACVs that have "main
guns" they may not even *have* a turret. As with an ACV (Air Cushion
Vehicle) turning the entire vehicle should be quick enough to be worth
eliminating all the hassles that a turret adds to a design. For one
thing, it'd enable a much heavier weapon.

And if they *don't* have turrets, then they don't have the slipstream
problems when turning it (instead they have other problems).

BTW, if grav tanks *do* fly at any sort of altitude, they *can't* have
thin "belly" or "roof" armor. Which raises the cost. It also makes the
likely shapes *far* different from what has been shown. 

Frankly, I expect that the optimal shape will be a spheroid or oviod of
some sort. Small blisters for secondary weapons, and the main weapon is
fixed, but the tank can spin about any axis rapidly *while moving*, and
the shape would prevent airflow problems. 

After all, the reason tanks are so *flat* is so that they can hide
behind things. Grav tanks don't appear to use that tactic much. Or if
they *do, then we are back to thinner top and bottom armor, and they
wouldn't *dare* fly at any sort of altitude.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 13:34:00 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: CT surface action

In mail you write:

>>From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
>>Subject: Quick thoughts on combat inside gravity wells
>>
>>Traveller combat in and around gravity wells is dominated by two
>>technologies - the anti-grav module and the meson gun.
>>
>>I dont think it was the intention of the games designers to make meson guns
>>as dominant weapons as they are for ground combat, but under FFS you really
>>cant go past a small meson gun as a vehicle weapon. It is trivially easy to
>>make a 20 km range meson gun, and the ability to kill armoured targets
>>makes the typical Traveller 'grav tank' dead meat.
>
>   But under CT (Striker) meson guns only become vehicle portable at TL 15,
> and even then the definition is optimistic.
>
>   Unless, of course, you're attempting to refute Striker, Comrade :)

Please note that there are vehicles, and there are *vehicles*. The
Germans had artillery pieces that were mounted on some pretty massive
"vehicles" (like multiple railrod cars). 

And in any case, a *fixed* meson gun site can still pick off grav tanks
like flies. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 13:38:04 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Quick thoughts on combat inside gravity wells

In mail you write:

> Although Bubba-style kinetic kill missiles are probably not viable in
> atmospheres,

Don't count on this. There have been real world prposals for kinetic
kill munitions deployed from orbit as tank killers, and in larger
versions ship and bunker/silo killers.

It's not that hard to design your "flying crowbar" (for tanks) or
"flying telephone pole" (for bigger targets) to survive renentry. The
*hard* part is the guidance/sensor package. 

> This will push the
> required point defense range out to line-of-sight, which essentially
> restricts this role to lasers (plasma and solid warheads cannot reach the
> missile in time to stop it detonating).

Or in the "flying crowbar" case, you need to get it *before* it
impacts. And at 11+ km/sec, you don't have a lot of time. Luckily, they
can't dodge worth beans. On the other claw, they tend to come in
bunches. 

> Particle weapons are, I suspect, best used in an anti-personell role -
> dug-in infantry will tend to use a lot of sand in and around their
> positions, possibly suspended inside some sort of plastisised dome, and
> neutral particle weapons will allow these positions to be suppressed. The
> length/diameter requirements of PAWs mean that they need to be quite large
> to penetrate the armour a grav tank can easily mount.

PAWs in atmosphere are a royal pain. And like high powered lasers, they
make counter battery fire *easy*. In both cases you have this striaght
line of ionized air point back at the weapon. Take two shots from the
same location, but at different targets (or at a single, *moving*
target) and the enemy will have your position *nailed*. And they'll
drop a present on it ASAP. 

With meson guns, that means that lasers and PAWS don't *dare* make more
than one shot without moving. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 14:31:28 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re Old Dos Software on a Mac

>Speaking of MS-Dos...any Mac folk on the list with enough experience to say
>whether Real PC or Virtual PC work well enough on a PowerMac 7200/75 to
>emulate at least a 386? (All I really need for stuff like Galactic and the
>apps on the CD..I don't _want_ to do Windows at home...I've gotta put up with
>_that_ all day long at work!)

assuming you set it up right, it should run OK for stuff for a 25mhz 386...
but don't expect any better than 50% of your system speed. A few (doing
run-time pre-compile type emulation) achieve up to 90%, but I don't know
about the specifics. I know that I ran Herobase useably on a Color Classic
(68030, 25mhz) at useable speeds under SoftPC.

>I've got bunches of memory and diskspace...All the reviews I've read of the
>products are by people running Windows or twitch games on it, no one bothers
>to test five year old RPG utilities with it ;-)

I KNOW soft PC works well. In any case, make certain thet whatever MS-DOs
Emulator has the following: a speed control option; PPC Native code; easy
emulation of hardware options (the one failure, imo, of many emulators).

BTW, slightly off topic, on a 33mhz 68040 mac, the freeware CP/M emulator
runs so fast I can't follow the cursor on the games... and it also lacks a
spedd restrictor setting...

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 14:48:41 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: [none]

>Traveller combat in and around gravity wells is dominated by two
>technologies - the anti-grav module and the meson gun.
>
>I dont think it was the intention of the games designers to make meson guns
>as dominant weapons as they are for ground combat, but under FFS you really
>cant go past a small meson gun as a vehicle weapon. It is trivially easy to
>make a 20 km range meson gun, and the ability to kill armoured targets
>makes the typical Traveller 'grav tank' dead meat.

Actually, the meson as a weapon system, IMO & IMTU, is non-prevalent due to
extensive fire control reasons... like the difficulty of bracketing targets
with  the fire. Unlike all other DF weapons, it is not a 2-D fire solution,
but 3-D... you have to get the fire into the target's volume. The bigger,
the easier. SO small 10-20 Td craft are hard to hit, simply because you're
trying to put a 20m shere to intersect with a 20m^3 target, which is moving
and maneuvering. If trying to do this while in a moveing and maneuvering
vehicle, computation becomes the problem... and computerized or automated
fire control becomes required. So, due to the problems, and the
psyychological factor of Fusion and Plasma Guns, MBT's are MBT's, not Meson
Carriers.... Meson arty fires from a standstil, primarily for radiation
effects over infantry.

OTOH, IMTU, certain elite marine boarders use Meson Battle Dress. MBD has a
1 damage Meson with the smallest FF&S1 TL14 Beam pointer, and a 48hour
duration...I posted it about 3 years ago... then promptly lost the design
specs. In any case, a platoon rides a NADS (Non-atmospheric drop shuttle)
and heads for the surface of capitol ships, doing key weapon destruction on
a pinpoint basis. I figure 4 reinforced regiments of these per sector (1
Battalion per subsector).

>Given the power of meson guns, Ogre-style vehicles will tend to dominate,
>as they can commit the volume and power for thick enough meson screens to
>defend against the meson weapons carried by vehicles and small starships. I
>dont like this. We need to lobby Marc Miller into mandating a minimum size
>for meson guns (I'd suggest 100m at TL11, falling by 20m per TL thereafter.
>This puts the abomination that is the handheld meson gun at TL16, which is
>where it should be).

Rather than do that, why not simply make non-computerized fire EXTREMELY
difficult... I use +4 diffmod for hand aimed, +2 for OMFC w/o computer, and
+2 if no beam ptr... And since most man-pack and small craft sized meson
guns (under FF&S1) did very little damage, they aren't that bad. A Fusion
gun is a better conversion of energy to damage, As I Recall.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 15:24:25 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: TNE COmbat Fixes

One easy way to up the ante is to allow a damage roll of staight sizes to
open end... so no damage roll will be without one non-six (you just keep
adding 1d at  a time until one isn't a 6). this workes faily well, and is
non-intrusive, especially if you limit it to "Soft Targets"-Living critters.

Additionally, to maintain the one shot kill chance, but allow a 1 shot
stop, make one roll: if
	Roll <= DICE of damage			Autokill
	Roll <= PIPS of damage rolled		Autodrop
I've used this; it sort of works.

Another way is to allow aimed shots at close range to add user skill to
damage value (in dice). Or to add skill level to each individual d6 rolled.
I have tried the latter... made it QUITE lethal with heavy MG's.

As for systemic damage, I simply apply an ammount toalling half of the
damage to a limb to the torso/chest.
===========================
For TNE, I finally chose to use the second option above, with D10's for
damage, double damage on a crit. I also halved ALL PC Damage values.
===========================
>> First, a seriously wounded...but conscious...character seems to be
>> able to perform many tasks as if they were fresh as a daisy.  T4, MT
>> and CT temporarily reduced Attributes due to hits, and that seems like
>> a realistic thing to me.
>
>That was one of the most charming aspects of CT IMO.

The nicer thing about MT is that you don't apply fresh damage to attributes
until the adrenaline wears off.... and many "One shot stops" in MT wind up
being flesh wounds that heal in a few days. Many "Combat kills" in MT
survive. While I really do prefer the TNE CGen, I much prefer MT's combat
system... which you CAN cross over faily well... assuming you also cross
over "Damage Rating".

Rememer, MT was CT w/striker+ integrated...

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 18:20:45 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

At 05:20 PM 7/5/98 -0500, Eris Reddoch wrote:
>snip<
>>I can see that. A well aimed hand gun is more dangerous  than a
>>poorly aimed rifle...
>
>A well aimed, or lucky, hand gun shot.  ;->

Eris, 

On issue I have with TNE is that in the version that I have is that no
matter what your skill with firearms you have 15% chance of missing.

Doug,

When you went thru sniper school would they have passed you if you missed
15% of the time?
I have talked to some VN era snipers that I have contact with and they only
had a 15% or worst chance of missing only under extremely difficult
conditions.

Sinbad Sam
Sinbad@hex.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 16:27:06 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: fun weapons

At 01:22 PM 7/5/98 PST, you wrote:

>Actually, it's possible that like the existing ACVs that have "main
>guns" they may not even *have* a turret. As with an ACV (Air Cushion
>Vehicle) turning the entire vehicle should be quick enough to be worth
>eliminating all the hassles that a turret adds to a design. For one
>thing, it'd enable a much heavier weapon.

My view leans towards the fat attack helicopter school.  The main weapon
fixed, with hardpoints for various ordinance, and a secondary weapon for
soft targets.  Add on a point-defence laser.

<snip>

>After all, the reason tanks are so *flat* is so that they can hide
>behind things. Grav tanks don't appear to use that tactic much. Or if
>they *do, then we are back to thinner top and bottom armor, and they
>wouldn't *dare* fly at any sort of altitude.

IMTU, I keep tanks close to the ground simply because it's cheaper to use a
hillside for armor than to armor up a tank to that level.  Tanks use
pop-ups, concentration of force, and extensive EW/ECM to close with and
destroy the enemy.
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry   dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/    |
|--------------------------------------|
| "Oscar Wilde only wishes he was this |
|  gay!"                 -Mike, MST3K  |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 11:27:34 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Ports and ship construction

At 10:20 5/07/98 -0700, Bruce Johnson wrote:
>Steve Rennell wrote:
> 
>> You can't get less for a sheep than to sell it live, so New
>> Zealand does. You can't get less for timber than to sell it
>> unprocessed, so New Zealand does. New Zealand was
>> the only place in the world that grew Kiwifruit, so we sold
>> some breeding plants to Chile, and now they are taking
>> over our markets.
>
>Yoou also have to look at it this way: it's also cheapest to sell sheep live,
>and timber unprocessed. Post production processing requires capital
>investments and an infrastructure to support those investments.

Which we already have. And BTW selling sheep live overseas required new
infrastucture to be put in, becuase the sheep, being live need to be fed,
watered, etc.

>_Most_ raw materials, especially large livestock, are not processed by the
>original 'manufacturer', but are raised by one business and sold to another
>for further processing. (In the case of some things, like cattle, there might
>be five or more middlemen betwixt that cow on the range and that plastic
>wrapped steak on your grocers shelf).
>
>The kiwi fruit thing is simply a matter of marketing, cost of production, and
>in the case of the US market favorable trade regulations (In return for
>destroying a 150 year history of peaceful, democratic, civilian government,
>instituting a 20 year reign of terror and death, and ohbytheway not
>nationalizing US copper interests, the US gave Chile a berth in NAFTA,
>markedly lowering trade barriers to the US market.)

However in one of the few bright move in New Zealand's exporting history we
have now reached a deal with Chile (who is one of our bigger trading
partners) whereby we help their dairy industry in exhange for a chunk of
it. This allows us to launder cheese, etc through Chile and export it to
the US as part of Chile's quota. I belive this has produced a number of
unhappy people in the US.

>Besides, trying to keep the kiwi fruit exclusive to New Zealand would have
>required a level of government opression unlikely to be tolerated by the
>populace, as the kiwi trees would have to be declared state property. 

Just make it illegal to export cuttings, seed, etc. This would make it hard
to export enough to make the venture profitable.

>Fruitless, as well, because if nothing else, you're exporting tons of kiwi
>seed with the fruit.

However the seed need not be fertile.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #635
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Monday, July 6 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 636



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: AUCTION: MegaTraveller/DGP (Sol&As, Var&Vil, WBH, SOM, etc.)
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Re: Quick thoughts on combat inside gravity wells
Re: Armagedon
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Re: CT surface action
Re: "Stranded on Arden"
Re: WEG bankruptcy
Re: 25mm Traveller Figures
Political intervention in the 3I
M:IW yet another ship sidebar
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Big Assets! (was TNE|TW2K Combat)
Re: Big Assets! (was TNE|TW2K Combat)
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Re: Big Assets! (was TNE|TW2K Combat)
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Re: Quick thoughts on combat inside gravity wells

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 18:37:36 -0500
From: Ryan Dooley <ryan@coe.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: AUCTION: MegaTraveller/DGP (Sol&As, Var&Vil, WBH, SOM, etc.)

Hi,

> MT World Builder's Handbook (Minimum Bid: $40)

I bid $40.

cheers,
	--ryan

  ryan@coe.missouri.edu ... (573) 882-2162 ... [573] 884=5158

  Key fingerprint = C2 61 A8 2E D4 93 57 1F  68 1D 2D 54 F3 51 70 B0

  Under US Code Title 47, Sec.227(b)(1)(C), Sec.227(a)(2)(B)
  This email address may not be added to any commercial mail list with
out
  my permission.  Violation of my privacy with advertising or SPAM will
  result in a suit for a MINIMUM of $500 damages/incident, $1500 for
repeats.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 11:47:16 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

At 18:20 5/07/98 -0500, Sam Thomas wrote:
>On issue I have with TNE is that in the version that I have is that no
>matter what your skill with firearms you have 15% chance of missing.
>
>Doug,
>
>When you went thru sniper school would they have passed you if you missed
>15% of the time?
>I have talked to some VN era snipers that I have contact with and they only
>had a 15% or worst chance of missing only under extremely difficult
>conditions.

My way around that is to rule that a shot by an undetected sniper is not
really 'in combat' so the auto-miss is on a 20 only, not 17-20.

- -- 
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.

Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

   

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 20:00:46 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: Quick thoughts on combat inside gravity wells

At 01:38 PM 7/5/98 -0800, you wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>> Although Bubba-style kinetic kill missiles are probably not viable in
>> atmospheres,
>
>Don't count on this. There have been real world prposals for kinetic
>kill munitions deployed from orbit as tank killers, and in larger
>versions ship and bunker/silo killers.
>
>It's not that hard to design your "flying crowbar" (for tanks) or
>"flying telephone pole" (for bigger targets) to survive renentry. The
>*hard* part is the guidance/sensor package. 

There is a missile produced by Shorts Bros., and in consideration by the US
DoD, called Starstreak.  It consists of a bus vehicle and three kinetic
kill darts.  IIRC, it has been available since the late 80's or early 90's.

Kurt Feltenberger
kurt@blazenet.net



http://www.igateway.com/clients/kurt/mp  Morrow Project Site

http://www.igateway.com/clients/kurt/pj PJ the Welsh Terrier Site

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 00:59:07 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Armagedon

On Fri, 3 Jul 1998 12:14:37 EDT, GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:

> Anyone else seen it yet, or torn it apart for its hard (and/or broken, like
> the explanation for the early debris) science?

I actually found it quite entertaining.  The movie is nearly 2 1/2 hours
long and I found myself pretty much engrossed in the movie to the point
that I really didn't notice the time go by.

It's not as scientifically accurate as "Deep Impact" (although, IMHO,
*both* movies take a number of liberties in this regard), but much more
entertaining overall.  The acting and characters were a bit more enjoyable
to watch as well (and, no, I'm not talking strictly about Liv Tyler).




James W. Lindsay     Vancouver, British Columbia
  "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
             ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

 "Be wewy wewy quiet... I'm hunting Womulins!!"
                         --Lt. Commander Fudd

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 20:03:53 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

At 11:47 AM 7/6/98 +1200, Rupert Boleyn wrote:
>snip<
>My way around that is to rule that a shot by an undetected sniper is not
>really 'in combat' so the auto-miss is on a 20 only, not 17-20.

Rupert,

Well it works for that situation but it still does not resolve the issue ie
a skill level 15 handgun expert with a attribute of 15 skill misses on
17-20. I personally know of some individuals who are not at those levels of
skill and attribute tier miss rate is less than 5% under combat handgun
range conditions.

But did not the American sniper?? ie Sergeant York during WWI have miss
rate less than 20% being "fighting the trenches" would be what I call
combat conditions in my book. IIRC he achieved a kill for every shot using
a iron sights, yes the first few shots, his location was undetected but not
the last few shots.

Sinbad Sam
sinbad@dfw.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 18:44:02 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: CT surface action

>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Subject: Re: CT surface action
...
>>   But under CT (Striker) meson guns only become vehicle portable at TL 15,
>> and even then the definition is optimistic.
...
>Please note that there are vehicles, and there are *vehicles*. The
>Germans had artillery pieces that were mounted on some pretty massive
>"vehicles" (like multiple railrod cars). 

  Well, specialized pieces like that are more nearly equivalent to planetary
defense gear in Traveller (which is close enough to siege, coastal defense
or special use interdiction artillery).

>And in any case, a *fixed* meson gun site can still pick off grav tanks
>like flies.

  True, but it requires that the Striker meson gun "indirect" firing rules
be changed - not necessarily a bad idea, either. Anything much larger than
the S:B 3 unit (particularly if using power plants below TL 15) will cost
as much as an entire company or more of tank destroyers if mobile, and still
require both spotters and advantageous (although possibly realistic) new
rules to make it a desirable general deployment item.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 18:44:12 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: "Stranded on Arden"

  The "cover" ship illo for "Stranded on Arden" (Adventure Gaming #6 12/81)
recalls the cargo hold packing discussion - it shows a ship interior with
uniform containers in stacks to the roof, with some aisle space and possibly
an area for sorting/loading (some have already been removed).

  The landing site (with facilities) is on the edge of a large body of water,
presumably so that defective vessels that undershoot won't leave visible scars
to upset future travellers :)

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 22:01:28 -0400
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: WEG bankruptcy

At 03:45 AM 7/5/98 -0500, Bryan wrote:
>	On another note, WEG is doing a final sales clearance on all there material
>in stock, at 65% off. Though between the 65% off and them staying in
business,
>I think I prefer the latter by far.
>

So - Does anybody know whether WEG has/had a website and if so, what its
URL is?

Tx!

Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 19:30:14 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: 25mm Traveller Figures

>From: WmByrne33@aol.com
>Subject: 25mm Traveller Figures
...
>I will get to the point.  I called Rafm's  800 number and they said that these
>were produced, but were mail order only because of the demise of GDW.  The bad
>news is that figures are out of production and sold out.  However, according
>to the woman on the phone they still had the molds and were looking to buy the
>license for a production run. 

  This would be way cool; if the prices weren't too much out of line with
their last products then I'd buy them all simply for completeness.

>I know that there are substitues, Stone Mountain, Table Top Miniatures, Ral
>PArtha, Fading Suns, and some more I can think of.  I want normal figures.  No

  Global Games "Legions of Steel" is a squad level SF skirmish game (with
a Stalingrad playtest version on their web-site) - the metal figure version
of the basic boxed set includes 19 figures with a total (& reasonable) retail
value exceeding the boxes' price - includes 25mm compatible room & deck
geomorphs.

  Remember, if you mail-order LoS stuff from Canada (<www.imphobbies.com>,
<www.sentrybox.com>) you're paying (for lead figs) the same price as US
stores sell the pewter ones for - and the Canadian dollar is worth only
two-thirds of yours :(

  Stone Mountain is great stuff, and they may have their web site up by now (?).

>We need 25mm figs that are supported by the Traveller, with GURPS coming out
>and the eventual release of a More Sci-Fi games.  It should be easy to produce
>normal 25mm figs and have them sell.

  Remember, if retailers (& distributors) are going to stock any new RAFM
Traveller release (and unrelated generics won't be stocked, frankly) then
it would help greatly if we go out and ask for them to get any _old_ RAFM
TNE figs they can for us to buy first; distributors like interest in a new
line, but they've got to be rid of the old stuff first.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 19:30:22 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Political intervention in the 3I

>From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
>Subject: Re: Ports and ship construction
...
>The kiwi fruit thing is simply a matter of marketing, cost of production, and
>in the case of the US market favorable trade regulations (In return for
>destroying a 150 year history of peaceful, democratic, civilian government,
>instituting a 20 year reign of terror and death, and ohbytheway not
>nationalizing US copper interests, the US gave Chile a berth in NAFTA,
>markedly lowering trade barriers to the US market.)

  OK, so Pinochet had an image problem :), but he wasn't a US puppet. Now,
consider the acceptable outcomes of covert ops in the 3-I, which doesn't
even pay lip service to concepts like human rights, equality, democracy
(or any political rights) _at the planetary level_.

  Sure, if you can get offworld and convince an Imperial recruiter that
you're a wonderful human being then you've an in to all sorts of rights
and privileges (not the least being that they'll take great exception to
anyone but they or their designated opponents physically damaging you),
but for the most part they consider labour camps and hit squads as quaint
customs - as long as you keep them local.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 14:20:07 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: M:IW yet another ship sidebar

This is another ship for the Interstellar Wars. The Lord Nelson incident was 
insired by something I saw on one of the Traveller lists, but I can't remember 
who it was from. Could whoever wrote about the appearance of Lord Nelson 
during the interstellar wars please stand up so I can assign credit.

Agamemnon, Iron Duke class Ship of the Line (FF&S v2)
Designed by Andrew Moffatt-Vallance

Statistics
 Tons: 30000 Td (SL Wedge Hypersonic)
 Crew: 550/735
 Cargo: 40 Td (1 x Large Cargo Hatch, Handling: 1 x 280 ton)
 Volume: 420000m3
 Passengers High/Med: 0/0
 Cost: 65412.955 MCr
 Mass (L/C): 523133t/516262t
 Passengers Low: 0
 Maintenance Points: 23173
 Dimensions: 234.1m x 160.7m x 66.9m
 Troops/Science: 30/0
 Tech Level: 11
 Size: 10
 Frozen Watch: 0

Electronics
 Controls: Dynamic, High automation. 3 x FibComp (CM: 0.4 CP: 2.5). Bridge.
 Communications: 1 x Dir Radio (1,000AU, 0.2MW). 2 x Laser (1,000AU, 
0MW).
 Sensors: 1 x Sci PEMS (13.5 [16mkm] Sci, 0.02MW).
          1 x Sci AEMS (12 [1.6mkm] Sci, 50MW).
          2 x Sci LIDAR (15 [2mkm] Sci, 3.3MW).
 Survey/Science:
 ECM: 1 x Radio Jammer (1,000AU, 0.4MW). 1 x Area. Jammer (13, 
25000MW).
      1 x Decp. Jammer (13, 50MW). 1 x Pas. Jammer (15, 2MW).
 Signatures: Vis:0, IR:0.5 (0.5 at 46673MW, 0 at 8215MW), Act:0.5, Neu:1,
             Grav:2

Weaponry
 10 x Heavy Laser Turret (+3) 1/2-0-0-0 [1,600/20-11-5-3] (LR)
 2 x Light Laser Bay (+3) 1/10-10-8-5 [6,200/50-50-39-19] (LR)
 2 x Missile Bay Auto 18/18 (Mag: 180 MFD: 500,000km)
       w/198 Cmd DL 1d6/3 [113] 6G/10 500,000km
 1 x Heavy Spinal PA (+0) 2/14-14-14-14 [1,50/1556-1556-1556-1556] (LR)

Performance
 2 Jump (3000 Td/pc fuel)
 3/3.1 Maneuver (Thruster: 39375MW)
 1/1 Contra-grav (7056MW)
 3973kph/3996kph Atmosphere (Cruise: 2980kph/2997kph)
 5 Power (Fusion: 82150MW, 0.25yr)
 0 Battery
 6220 Fuel (Scoop: 5 Purif: 168, 22MW)
 0/720/15/0/0 Accomodations (735 x Sanitary Fittings)
 9750 Person/Weeks Life Support (Type: Extended, Normal Food [Stored])
 2 G-Comp
 0 ESA
 6 Sandcasters (AV: 113 Cans: 24)
 0 Damper Turrets
 0 Damper Screen
 0 Meson Screen
 0 Force Field
 0 Gravtics
 20 [58] Armor, 59 Structure (Crystaliron Hull)

Features
 270 x Airlock	
 30 x Decontamination Airlock
 2 x Docking Umbilical
 3 x Electronic Shop (6 Td ea.)
 3 x Machine Shop (10 Td ea.)
 8 x Sickbay (8 Td ea.)
 1 x Ship's locker (15 Td ea.)
 15 x Prisoner Capacity (0/10/5)
 1 x Armory (1.07 Td ea.)
 5 x Full Galley (Cap: 150)

Small Craft
 1 x Spaceous Hanger (80 Td, 2 hatches)

Backups
 Drives:
 Screens:
 Communications: 2 x Dir Radio (1,000AU). 4 x Laser (1,000AU).
 Sensors: 1 x Sci PEMS (13.5 [16mkm] Sci). 1 x Sci AEMS (12 [1.6mkm] Sci).
          2 x Sci LIDAR (15 [2mkm] Sci).
 Survey/Science:
 ECM:
 Power & Fuel:

Crew Details
 8 x Helm
 374 x Engineering
 68 x Maintaince
 119 x Gunnery
 6 x Screens
 30 x Troops
 100 x Command
 24 x Stewards
 6 x Medical

The Iron Duke Class were one of the earlest examples of the classic Terran
Ship of the Line and even though it was a rapidly outclassed in terms of both
size and power, the class exhibits most of the common features of the type;
the large spinal particle accelerator, wedge hull form, extreme automation to
reduce the crew requirements, extensive backup electronics and a heavy point
defence laser battery. The Iron Dukes were designed shortly after the end of
the 1st Interstellar War and formed the backbone of the Terran fleet during
the 2nd War and early 3rd War. In total 257 examples of the class were built,
and though the class suffered heavily with the wholesale scrappings that
followed the 3rd War, some examples survived in auxilary roles for many
years. The longest serving was the Hiei which survived as a colonial guard
ship at Hades until 2402AD.

The most famous example of the class was the Agamemnon on which the
mysterious Lord Nelson incident occured. The Agamemnon was a reserve 
squadron
flagship during the critical Battle of Junction in 2152AD. During the battle
the Vilani broke through the Terran line and attacked the reserve; and the
Agamemnon was struck by a spread of Vilani missiles which damaged the 
ships
control systems and killed or injured most of the bridge crew. At this point
the "ghost" of Admiral Lord Horatio Nelson (1758AD - 1805AD) "appeared" on
the ships bridge. He exhorted the crew to attack the Vilani centre. The
senior officer (Leftenant Pi Yu) choose to follow this course of action,
against all naval doctrine of the time. The result was that against all
expectations the reserve smashed the Vilani breakthrough and turned the tide
of the battle in the Terrans favour.

The incident has thus far defied explanation. The ship's internal bridge
sensors were offline due to battle damage at the time, so no accurate
independent record exists, but the incident was confirmed after the battle by
the Agamemnon's surviving bridge crew (some 17 individuals). It is known that
the ship's jump grid had accidentally discharged due to the damage sustained.
The most commonly accepted explanation is a mass hysterical delusion
brought on by combat stress and the jump grid discharge; however the incident
still remains a tantalising mystery and is the subject of much popular
debate.

The Agamemnon herself suffered severe damage during the battle, and though
she was repaired, she was never again employed in frontline service. She
served as a convoy escort until the end of the 3rd War and was then assigned
as a colonial guardship at Midway until 2172AD when she was designated as 
an
escort for the long range colonisation program. The Agamemnon left for the
Rim in 2177AD and her ultimate fate is unknown.
Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 22:02:18 -0500
From: "Pearson Publishing" <jdpearson@wr.net>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat

In addition to Traveller, I play some Champions.  There is just such a feature 
built into their combat rules.  For every point of "body" damage that you sustain 
which exceeds your armor rating, you get "knocked back" that many hexes.  
You also have to roll to see if you're still standing afterwards.

 
> It seems to me that the problem then is the difference 
> between damage weapons do and damage that punch 
> ups and falls do is not different enough. It doesn't matter 
> how many HP you have, one of the problems will still be 
> there. Perhaps you need a shock system, where if you 
> get damaged you have a chance of fallking down and 
> being uninterested in much for 20 minutes or so.
> 


 -- James Pearson
"The purpose of a referee is to present obstacles 
for players to overcome as they go about seeking 
their goals, not to constantly make trouble for them.
This is a very subtle distinction ..."

The Traveller Book, p. 12

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/4089

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 21:45:47 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

On 07/05/98 at 06:20 PM,  Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net> said:

>On issue I have with TNE is that in the version that I have is that
>no matter what your skill with firearms you have 15% chance of
>missing.

I noticed that in my version, too. ;->  Is it different in the Mk1?

IAC, in play, I *forget* that line entirely.  A natural 20 is a
guaranteed miss, and I'm not entirely happy with a guaranteed 5% miss.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 21:52:00 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

On 07/06/98 at 11:47 AM,  Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz> said:

>At 18:20 5/07/98 -0500, Sam Thomas wrote:
>>On issue I have with TNE is that in the version that I have is that no
>>matter what your skill with firearms you have 15% chance of missing.

>My way around that is to rule that a shot by an undetected sniper is
>not really 'in combat' so the auto-miss is on a 20 only, not 17-20.

I don't know what you're talking about! <wink> That rule must have
been left out of the version of TNE I've got. <nudge> Only a 20 is a
guaranteed miss, and I don't what any lip about it!  ;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 22:11:52 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Big Assets! (was TNE|TW2K Combat)

On 07/05/98 at 08:03 PM,  Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net> said:

>Well it works for that situation but it still does not resolve the
>issue ie a skill level 15 handgun expert with a attribute of 15 skill
>misses on 17-20. I personally know of some individuals who are not at
>those levels of skill and attribute tier miss rate is less than 5%
>under combat handgun range conditions.

There's an interesting point in there, beside the main one that a 20%
guaranteed miss rate for all shooters at all ranges strains
credibility.

In TNE attributes aren't supposed to get above 13, IIRC, and I can't
recall ever having seen a skill level 15 at anything on any
character's sheet.  It seems looking back over some old sheets that in
TNE professional level assets were generally in the range of 12 to 14.
Occasionally, they got to 16 to 18, but I don't recall anything higher
than that.  My players and I always spread the skills out too much to
get levels in any one skill much above 6.

Were we an atypical bunch?  Was it a common occurance to get skill
levels into double digits in your games?

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 22:43:43 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net>
Subject: Re: Big Assets! (was TNE|TW2K Combat)

At 10:11 PM 7/5/98 -0500, Eris Reddoch wrote:
>On 07/05/98 at 08:03 PM,  Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net> said:
>
>>Well it works for that situation but it still does not resolve the
>>issue ie a skill level 15 handgun expert with a attribute of 15 skill
>>misses on 17-20. I personally know of some individuals who are not at
>>those levels of skill and attribute tier miss rate is less than 5%
>>under combat handgun range conditions.
>
>There's an interesting point in there, beside the main one that a 20%
>guaranteed miss rate for all shooters at all ranges strains
>credibility.

The Herectic has a strained credibility?<G>. But I also agree with the above.

>In TNE attributes aren't supposed to get above 13, IIRC, and I can't
>recall ever having seen a skill level 15 at anything on any
>character's sheet.  It seems looking back over some old sheets that in
>TNE professional level assets were generally in the range of 12 to 14.
>Occasionally, they got to 16 to 18, but I don't recall anything higher
>than that.  My players and I always spread the skills out too much to
>get levels in any one skill much above 6.

Ooops sorry was thinking of T4 skills and attributes.....
Ok change that to a skill of 6 and attribute of 12.

>Were we an atypical bunch?  Was it a common occurance to get skill
>levels into double digits in your games?

No my players did just great with single digit skills and double digits
attributes except for the Vargr who used a pistol with no skill in handgun
and had a low attribute for it. He even had other PC's load more ammo into
when it ran out. Most of the time they were loath to do so.<G>

But my players for the most part had a large tactics pool isn't that right
Jimmy?

Sinbad Sam
sinbad@hex.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 22:49:04 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

At 09:45 PM 7/5/98 -0500, Eris Reddoch wrote:
>On 07/05/98 at 06:20 PM,  Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net> said:
>
>>On issue I have with TNE is that in the version that I have is that
>>no matter what your skill with firearms you have 15% chance of
>>missing.
>
>I noticed that in my version, too. ;->  Is it different in the Mk1?
>
>IAC, in play, I *forget* that line entirely.  A natural 20 is a
>guaranteed miss, and I'm not entirely happy with a guaranteed 5% miss.

Well you could say that on a 20 you miss unless it a well aimed
braced/rested shot from an undetected position by the target.

Sinbad Sam
sinbad2hex.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 23:05:12 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Big Assets! (was TNE|TW2K Combat)

On 07/05/98 at 10:43 PM,  Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net> said:

>>There's an interesting point in there, beside the main one that a 20%
>>guaranteed miss rate for all shooters at all ranges strains
>>credibility.

>The Herectic has a strained credibility?<G>. 

No, the Heretic has strained credulity, the game's system has strained
credibility. ;->

>But I also agree with the above.

>>In TNE attributes aren't supposed to get above 13, IIRC, and I can't
>>recall ever having seen a skill level 15 at anything on any
>>character's sheet.  

>Ooops sorry was thinking of T4 skills and attributes..... 

Yeah, you could "munch" your way up to there in T4, one dimensional
character, but you could do it.

>Ok change that to a skill of 6 and attribute of 12.

That's more like it.  Still an attribute of 12 is pretty rare in TNE,
1/36 plus a +2G homeworld if I'm not mistaken.  Personally, I let the
players distribute points within the range of 3 to 9, and being a
heretic they distribute 50 among 8 attributes.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 23:11:41 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

On 07/05/98 at 10:49 PM,  Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net> said:

>>IAC, in play, I *forget* that line entirely.  A natural 20 is a
>>guaranteed miss, and I'm not entirely happy with a guaranteed 5% miss.

>Well you could say that on a 20 you miss unless it a well aimed
>braced/rested shot from an undetected position by the target.

Yeah, there may be a case for a 20% guaranteed miss for hand guns and
medium+ range too...nah, not 20% guaranteed.  I guess I can live with
5%.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 19:21:08 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Quick thoughts on combat inside gravity wells

In mail you write:

> At 01:38 PM 7/5/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>> Although Bubba-style kinetic kill missiles are probably not viable in
>>> atmospheres,
>>
>>Don't count on this. There have been real world prposals for kinetic
>>kill munitions deployed from orbit as tank killers, and in larger
>>versions ship and bunker/silo killers.
>>
>>It's not that hard to design your "flying crowbar" (for tanks) or
>>"flying telephone pole" (for bigger targets) to survive renentry. The
>>*hard* part is the guidance/sensor package. 
>
> There is a missile produced by Shorts Bros., and in consideration by the US
> DoD, called Starstreak.  It consists of a bus vehicle and three kinetic
> kill darts.  IIRC, it has been available since the late 80's or early 90's.

I'm wondering how "easy" it'd be to make an "opposed landing" against a
planet liberally equipped with the equivalent of the Sprint ABM system.

This puppy accelerated at around 100g. It was two stage and the second
stage ignited almost as soon as it cleared the launcher. While they
were to be equipped with nuclear warheads so as to make "near misses"
into kills, in testing they wound up having to "detune" the tracking as
otherwise they'd have had the sprints *colliding* with the incoming
warheads (which would have resulted in the remains of both landing where
the Russians could have salvaged them). 

Anyway, the poor attack force would have to shoot down dozens of the
long range ABMs, enough that they'd probably figure that they were
through the defenses. Then when they get down to a mile or two, the
Sprints would get fired. Even TL15 point defenses would have trouble
then.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #636
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Monday, July 6 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 637



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: comparing the versions
Re: Big Assets! (was TNE|TW2K Combat)
Re: comparing the versions
K'kree? Please Help
Re: Armed Merchants
Re: CT surface action
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions) 
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Re: Big Assets! (was TNE|TW2K Combat)
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #636
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Re: Big Assets! (was TNE|TW2K Combat)
Small scale colonisation in Traveller - Hostile Environments
Beyond the Extents PBEM: Players Wanted.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 19:33:44 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: comparing the versions

In mail you write:

> On 07/05/98 at 10:24 AM,  dberry@hooked.net said:
>
>>A veteran LAPD officer was  shot in the foot with a .22.  The bullet
>>was visible under the skin.  The officer died of shock before he
>>could reach a hospital.
>
> Yes, continuing damage from shock and bleeding should be included
> somehow.  Very rare for slight wounds, like from a .22, but
> *possible*, and more common and faster for more serious wounds from
> medium and heavy pistols and rifles.

Actually, shock can set in from really *trivial* things. For example, I
got shocky and almost passed out when I had my ear pierced. No idea
*why*, but it happened. 

BTW, from my experience a lot of people get "shocky" and don't
*realize* that they are in shock. I only know what it feels like
because one time a nurse friend *told* me I was in shock.

>>In New York City, a man was shot in the forehead from a distance of
>>about two feet by a .45 caliber pistol.  The bullet deflected off the
>>man's skull, traveled around his head under the skin, and exited the
>>rear of his head.  The gunman, seeing an entrance and exit wound,
>>assumed his target was dead.  The target awoke, and walked to a
>>hospital.
>
> And yes, the converse should be true as well.  A .45 (or 7.62 rifle)
> bullet to the head at point blank range should not always kill the
> target, almost always, but with a *chance* of survival.

A few years back we had an idiot get drunk with friends in his Bow
Hunting group. They tried the "William Tell" bit with a beercan on his
head. They missed the can and he wound up with a broadhead *hunting*
arrow thru one of his eyes and clear to the back of his skull.

Believe it or not, they got him to the hospital and the arrow was
removed. Aside from losing an eye, he survived with no ill effects!
And no, this *isn't* a urban legend, I can scan the article from the
paper and I recall the TV news coverage. The guy has even done some
anti-drunkeness ads. 

Try getting players to believe *that* one!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 23:31:49 -0500
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@fastlane.net>
Subject: Re: Big Assets! (was TNE|TW2K Combat)

At 10:43 PM 7/5/1998 -0500, Sinbad Sam wrote:
>
>Ooops sorry was thinking of T4 skills and attributes.....
>Ok change that to a skill of 6 and attribute of 12.
>
>>Were we an atypical bunch?  Was it a common occurance to get skill
>>levels into double digits in your games?
>
>No my players did just great with single digit skills and double digits
>attributes except for the Vargr who used a pistol with no skill in handgun
>and had a low attribute for it. He even had other PC's load more ammo into
>when it ran out. Most of the time they were loath to do so.<G>
>
>But my players for the most part had a large tactics pool isn't that right
>Jimmy?
>
>Sinbad Sam
>sinbad@hex.net
> 
Most of the characters in our group were generally oriented towards one
skill area (Engineering had the engineering skill, Mechanical, etc.) and
several other lower level skills.  We generally had one or two individuals
that had fairly high tactics skill.  We generally had no problem taking on
the small fleets and small armies, but we generally had a harder time
against the lone Aslan gunman (gunalsan?).  He nearly wiped us out single
handedly.

The Vargr.  I don't remember where he came up with that revolver, but even
with a 0 skill level he was deadly with it.  Unfortunately, it was
generally us he was hitting.  We got to where we would load it and duck
behind him and find cover, generally a couple blocks behind him with a
couple of buildings for cover.

Jimmy Simpson
	nimrodd@fastlane.net
"Cannot say.
 Saying, I would know.
 Do not know.
 So cannot say."
		-Zathras (Babylon 5)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 16:55:15 +1200
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: comparing the versions

>>Economics
>>
>> It just doesn't work, why trade stuff to other planets when you living on
a
>> planet and that stuff will most likely be around somewhere, hell just
import
>> a survey team...
>
>If that was true, the US wouldn't import much.


The US imports things from other parts of the same planet, not another
planet (except maybe a few moon rocks :P ). The way I see it is with a
populated enough planet (a couple billion or so) then there would be little
need to import raw materials and stuff from other planets, just novelty
items and such.

Cheers,
 Anson.

Blockbuster generates 20% of it's revenues through late fees.
My lifestyle does make a difference,
by strategically failing I am proactively participating
in a concerted effort to expand this nations GNP.
This is my contract with America.

IMTU: tc+ tm tn++ !t4 !tg tt+ to ru ge+ !3i c- jt+ au ls+ pi+ ta++ he++

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 22:28:23 -0700
From: Skoal <skoal@mail.gci-net.com>
Subject: K'kree? Please Help

Hello All
Sometimes back, someone posted a K'kree character generation to the TML
But I lost the guys email address.
If anyone knows who did this please email me his email address and or his
name for Cr.

http://www.gci-net.com/users/s/skoal/kkree.html

Thanks
Marana, Az

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 17:44:22 +1200
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Armed Merchants

>>I agree.  The table in CT gives something like a 5% chance per jump.

However, if you travel in systems with class A, or B class Starports
exclusively then there is NO chance of encountering a pirate. IMTU the
megacorps and other major trading parties run on such routes, it's the free
traders and non-affiliated people who run the high-risk routes mainly
beacause the megacorps run the 'safe' routes and can easily bankrupt any
small-time opposition should they feel so inclined.

>>that means a merchant could expect to get attacked by a pirate once
>>per year, which I regard as way too high.  However, I see the
>>table as more of a _PC_ encounter table, not a statement of
>>the actualy frequency of piracy.  My assumption has always been
>>that (with the exception of turbulent times, commerce raiding,
>>Vargr incursions, etc.) a merchant will likely go his entire
>>career without being attacked

If they work for a major player in the trading business then yes.
Has anyone considered a major anti-pirate campaign spearheaded by a megacorp
in order to 'cleanse' new areas for trade?

Cheers,
 Anson.

Blockbuster generates 20% of it's revenues through late fees.
My lifestyle does make a difference,
by strategically failing I am proactively participating
in a concerted effort to expand this nations GNP.
This is my contract with America.

IMTU: tc+ tm tn++ !t4 !tg tt+ to ru ge+ !3i c- jt+ au ls+ pi+ ta++ he++

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 18:02:16 +1200
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: CT surface action

>Please note that there are vehicles, and there are *vehicles*. The
>Germans had artillery pieces that were mounted on some pretty massive
>"vehicles" (like multiple railrod cars).


Yeah, like the 80cm Gustav. When assembled the equipment was 140 feet
(42.79m) long 23 feet (7.01m) wide and 116 feet (38m) high and weighed 1350
tonnes (1329 tons). It fired a 4.7 ton (4800 kg) High explosive shell out to
29 miles (47 km) or a 7 ton (7100 kg) concrete piercing shell out to 24
miles (38 km).
Although not the largest calibre gun ever built Gustav was certainly the
largest artillery equipment in history.
Gustav was fired during the siege of Sevastopol.

Source: The Illustrated Encyclopaedia of Artillery, Quatro publishing plc
1987, ISBN 1-85348-096-7

Cheers,
 Anson.

Blockbuster generates 20% of it's revenues through late fees.
My lifestyle does make a difference,
by strategically failing I am proactively participating
in a concerted effort to expand this nations GNP.
This is my contract with America.

IMTU: tc+ tm tn++ !t4 !tg tt+ to ru ge+ !3i c- jt+ au ls+ pi+ ta++ he++

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 02:23:19 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions) 

> On 07/05/98 at 10:49 PM,  Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net> said:
> 
> >>IAC, in play, I *forget* that line entirely.  A natural 20 is a
> >>guaranteed miss, and I'm not entirely happy with a guaranteed 5% miss.
> 
> >Well you could say that on a 20 you miss unless it a well aimed
> >braced/rested shot from an undetected position by the target.
> 
> Yeah, there may be a case for a 20% guaranteed miss for hand guns and
> medium+ range too...nah, not 20% guaranteed.  I guess I can live with
> 5%.

There have been documented cases of police in shootouts that burned off 2 full
*clips* at a perp in a gunfight & failed to hit.  These police were pretty
decent shots on the range.

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 00:08:09 -0700
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:
> 
> > On 07/05/98 at 10:49 PM,  Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net> said:
> >
> > >>IAC, in play, I *forget* that line entirely.  A natural 20 is a
> > >>guaranteed miss, and I'm not entirely happy with a guaranteed 5% miss.
...
> 
> There have been documented cases of police in shootouts that burned 
> off 2 full *clips* at a perp in a gunfight & failed to hit.  These
> police were pretty decent shots on the range.
> 
> Keven

Other statistics support the 15% guaranteed miss (or actually a higher
miss rate.)  In WW II it took some 200+ rounds of ammunition to cause
one casualty in infantry combat.  Even considering suppression fire
that's pretty bad.

Kristian

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 00:14:11 -0700
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
Subject: Re: Big Assets! (was TNE|TW2K Combat)

Eris Reddoch wrote:
> 
> On 07/05/98 at 08:03 PM,  Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net> said:
> 
> >Well it works for that situation but it still does not resolve the
> >issue ie a skill level 15 handgun expert with a attribute of 15 skill
> >misses on 17-20. I personally know of some individuals who are not at
> >those levels of skill and attribute tier miss rate is less than 5%
> >under combat handgun range conditions.
> 
> There's an interesting point in there, beside the main one that a 20%
> guaranteed miss rate for all shooters at all ranges strains
> credibility.

The 5% miss rate comes from "range" conditions which don't simulate
panic, adrenaline or real bullets flying back at the shooter.  History
and the news are full of gunfights where a 20% miss rate was several
times better than the real miss rate.

Kristian

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 16:53:01
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #636

>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Subject: Re: Quick thoughts on combat inside gravity wells
>
>In mail you write:
>
>> At 01:38 PM 7/5/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>>In mail you write:
>>>
>>>> Although Bubba-style kinetic kill missiles are probably not viable in
>>>> atmospheres,
>>>
>This puppy accelerated at around 100g. It was two stage and the second
>stage ignited almost as soon as it cleared the launcher. While they
>were to be equipped with nuclear warheads so as to make "near misses"
>into kills, in testing they wound up having to "detune" the tracking as
>otherwise they'd have had the sprints *colliding* with the incoming
>warheads (which would have resulted in the remains of both landing where
>the Russians could have salvaged them). 

Leonard,

Have you or anyone else built any atmospheric KKMs under FFS2 rules ?

If they can be built so that they have high enough speed to make
laser-based point defense systems usable, then I'll have a think about them.

Steve (or should I say Comrade Hudson),

It appears that you have not been keeping up with your ideology sessions.
Whilst the Early Works are valuable and provide useful insights, they are
not definitive - the most recent works to come out of the Central Committee
(in this case FFS2) should be regarded as definitive. We should not fall
into Gloranthaism, where the oldest resources are regarded as the most
definitive (unless Gregged at a later date).

Vice-chair of Ideology Whitchurch 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 04:21:15 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

On 07/06/98 at 02:23 AM,  "Keven R. Pittsinger"
<jamstar@glasscity.net> said:

>> Yeah, there may be a case for a 20% guaranteed miss for hand guns and
>> medium+ range too...nah, not 20% guaranteed.  I guess I can live with
>> 5%.

>There have been documented cases of police in shootouts that burned
>off 2 full *clips* at a perp in a gunfight & failed to hit.  These
>police were pretty decent shots on the range.

"Kristian Miller" added:

>The 5% miss rate comes from "range" conditions which don't simulate
>panic, adrenaline or real bullets flying back at the shooter. 
>History and the news are full of gunfights where a 20% miss rate was
>several times better than the real miss rate.

Oh, I'm not saying that all shots should have a 5% miss rate.  I'm
just objecting to a *guaranteed* 20% miss rate.  ;-> For most PC's it
isn't going to come into play that much, only for aimed shots and for
*very* highly skilled PC's.

For quick shots, the most common kind, and given an Asset of 14, which
is pretty high, and firing at stationary target the chance to hit is
70% chance at Short range, 35% chance at Medium range, and 15% chance
at Long range.

For aimed shots, using the 20% miss the numbers are 80% Short, 70%
Medium, 35% Long and 15% Extreme.  My way would be 95% Short and the
same for the others. 

Too high?  Maybe, but it makes close combat more deadly, and I like
that. 

Eris

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 22:50:29 +1200
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Big Assets! (was TNE|TW2K Combat)

>> >Well it works for that situation but it still does not resolve the
>> >issue ie a skill level 15 handgun expert with a attribute of 15 skill
>> >misses on 17-20. I personally know of some individuals who are not at
>> >those levels of skill and attribute tier miss rate is less than 5%
>> >under combat handgun range conditions.
>>
>> There's an interesting point in there, beside the main one that a 20%
>> guaranteed miss rate for all shooters at all ranges strains
>> credibility.
>
>The 5% miss rate comes from "range" conditions which don't simulate
>panic, adrenaline or real bullets flying back at the shooter.  History
>and the news are full of gunfights where a 20% miss rate was several
>times better than the real miss rate.
>
>Kristian

Exactly, range conditions are the optimum environment. Imagine your
character walks out of their favourite night-spot and round the corner comes
into contact with a bunch of hoods... This ain't a range, this is an alley,
the targets are trying to put a knife in you, aim, or shoot, or club them
with the lump of metal in your fist.

Cheers,
 Anson

I have no place for prejudice.

IMTU: tc+ tm tn++ !t4 !tg tt+ to ru ge+ !3i c- jt+ au ls+ pi+ ta++ he++

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 19:23:39
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Small scale colonisation in Traveller - Hostile Environments

OK, so you dont have a biosphere

People who have carefully read the first two parts may have realised that
the economically optimal place to put a colony will not neccessarily be
optimal from a point of view of habitability. (1)

The rules in part one essentially assume that colonies will be
self-supporting. This is not necessarily the case, which brings us to the
next part ...

Eat in or take away ?

A common assumption among Traveller players is that food will not be a
major export or import for worlds. However, for worlds that would otherwise
have to spend substantial amounts on complex artificial life support
systems, importing food from a world with an active biosphere actually
makes economic sense.

Proof : Assume interest rates are at 3%, transport costs are Cr 1000 per
parsec, and life support capital costs are as per FFS errata. Assume our
colony has a choice between building a VB class life support system -
closed loop with fresh fruit and vegetables, or staying with a class IV
life support, and importing actual food. Assume people need 2 kilos of food
per day.

In the first case, a capital investment of KCr 200 per colonist is
required, over and above the class IV life support system (which needs to
be bought to add a class V system on to anyway). At 3% interest, this
represents an annual cost of about KCr 6 - if you didnt have to do it, you
could save KCr 6 a year in interest on the smaller capital cost of
establishing the colony.

In the second case, the type IV system sees to air and water recycling, and
only food needs to be imported. 2 kilos of food per day is approximatly 700
kg per year, or one half of a displacement ton. Assuming the food itself
costs KCr 2 per displacement ton, then it could be shipped for up to 4
parsecs at a very high KCr 1 per parsec shipping cost until the breakeven
point between growing and importing is met. There are very few worlds more
than four parsecs from a world with any sort of biosphere.

Of course, if interstellar trade gets disrupted and freight costs skyrocket
(due to an outbreak of war, for example), then a colony will have to draw
down on it's accumulated food reserves (a couple of hundred displacement
tons of emergency rations is an excellent investment for a belter colony).

Three Hundred Thousand Ardalopeburgers for Arbuthot IV ... 

The game effect of living with food imports is that a world gets a
Infrastructure rating for export purposes of 50% higher than otherwise, but
has to ensure a high enough level of shipping into the system to import one
half of a displacement ton off food per citizen per year, at a cost of KCr
3 per ton plus shipping cost (2).

This can lead to an excellent relationship between two new colonies - the
one with the biosphere can be the granary for the one with the toxic
atmosphere and hard-currency exports.

(1) Note that every world and worldlet can and probably should be surveyed,
and a special success on any of these rolls reveals an economically
exploitable export resource - i.e. a place you can use the export sector
rules in part two. You wont always get this success roll on the planet you
might otherwise want to colonise.

(2) The FFS rules on how long food lasts in storage are a bit pessimistic.
Carefully chosen TL1 foods can easily last for a year with moderatly
careful storage, and some of them even taste good. Grain, dates, dried
fruits and salted meat come to mind. 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 13:12:32 +0000
From: "Carlos Alos-Ferrer" <Carlos.Alos-Ferrer@univie.ac.at>
Subject: Beyond the Extents PBEM: Players Wanted.

This is the introduction to a PBEM Campaign starting next September. 
I have free player slots, so please contact me if you are interested. 
Specially, if you are willing to help a bit.
This is not a Geonee-campaign, although some Geonee do appear. PCs 
should be either "normal" humans or Vargr.
Note to Jeff Zeitlin: This is the first part of what we discussed.

Contact: Carlos.Alos-Ferrer@Univie.Ac.At
===========================================

BEYOND THE EXTENTS
Campaign Introduction
by Carlos Alos-Ferrer

 The following is a transcription of a recorded report by Eneri
 Thaynei, dated 2,707 Unified Calendar.

 Good morning, fellow sophont. I know you feel disorientated, but do
 not worry. It is just an after-effect of a poorly maintained
 hypersleep. For the moment being, let us concentrate on some simple
 facts. You are in a hospital bed, staring at the screen of a monitor,
 which is displaying my image.

 Who am I? My name is Sir Eneri Thaynei, and I am an Imperial Knight,
 although this rank is now irrelevant, for reasons that will be
 obvious in a few minutes.

 To help you order your thoughts, let us focus on the last things that
 you should remember. For whatever the reason, you were in the
 starport of one of the few loyal worlds of Lishun sector in late
 1,120. Maybe you even remember the name of the world. An airless moon
 of a gas giant. If you do, it is a good signal. If you don't, it will
 come later, and then you will know that your disorientation is
 vanishing.

 I have said a loyal world. Loyal to our glorious Emperor Lucan, of
 course. But things were getting quite hot there, with those
 treacherous Vilani, not to speak of the Vargr hordes. And these were
 the real problem for us. More concretely, the problem came from the
 corsair attack that destroyed the main colony and left the starport
 in chaos. The life support system was heavily damaged, and over one
 thousand of us, stranded at the remains of the starport, faced a
 certain death in a few weeks, at the very best.

 But we managed. Fortunately, one of the ships on-planet at the time
 of the attack was a huge colonial transport. We cannibalized the
 starport and the other damaged ships, and brought it back to life
 just in time. We installed in it every single low berth that we could
 find, and went into hypersleep. One thousand two hundred and
 seventy-two  passengers, plus a presumably capable crew. They should
 have brought us back to safe imperial space in  a few weeks.

 They failed miserably. I do not know what happened, because there is
 no hint of where the crew could be, but we are not in imperial space.
 The bad news are that, apparently, we headed for the Vargr Extents.
 The good news are that we surpassed them. We are... beyond the
 extents.

 I can see that you do not believe me. You have noticed human doctors
 and nurses around by now, so we should be in some civilized place.
 Well, the place is civilized, rest assured, but don't try to talk to
 the doctors. They do not speak galanglic. Neither galanglic, nor high
 Vilani. Nothing that you could understand. Fortunately, one of their
 languages is close to galanglic (although phonetically twisted in a
 strange way), so you will be able to communicate in a month. At
 least, that is what it took to me. With help, it can be quicker for
 you.

 In fact, maybe you have also seen some Vargr doctor. Do not worry,
 this is a multi-racial society. There are four human species around,
 plus two Vargr races (Urzaeng and Suedzuk, in case you care), and
 several other alien races. Some will be familiar, some will not.

 What was I saying? Oh, yes, beyond the extents. From astrographical
 observations, I believe that we are one or two sectors coreward of
 Dfotseth sector, that is, around six or seven sectors away from
 imperial space. And, incidentally, beyond the edge of charted space
 as we know it. Interesting, isn't it?

 I cannot blame you if you do not believe me. I myself wish it was not
 true, but it is. You have my word. And you will be able to check it
 by yourself in the next weeks.

 You are confused. Please remain with me. This will help you to
 understand your new situation.

 How comes there are humans here, if we are outside of known space?
 This is a long story, but I will try to offer you a summary.

 We have to go a bit back on history. Do you remember your history
 lessons? The Vilani human race established the First Imperium, then
 they met the terrrans, who conquered them and created the Second
 Imperium, which collapsed and was followed by a Long Night of almost
 two millennia, which ended with the birth of our glorious Third
 Imperium more than one thousand years ago, the same Imperium which is
 nowadays shattered by the Rebellion against our Emperor Lucan... got
 it? Good. We only need the two first empires.

 The Second Imperium, or the Rule of Man, collapsed in -1,776. At
 least, that's what the history books say. Actually, this date was
 decided by the historians afterwards. The fall was a centuries-long
 process. Thus, it is not surprising that some clever people were able
 to foresee what was coming.

 Two such people were a retired terran admiral called Joseph Tyrrell
 and a Geonee industrial called Brud Ardashee (The Geonee, in case you
 don't know, are a minor human race native to Massilia sector).
 Together, these two clever people organized a huge expedition with
 over one hundred TL-12, Jump-3 starships, thousands of colonists of
 terran, Geonee, and even Vilani origin. This should have been
 something.

 The Tyrrell-Ardashee Expedition should transport all these colonists
 beyond the boundaries of the collapsing Rule of Man. More concretely,
 to the Empire of Gashikan, a human-dominated state in the middle of
 the Vargr Extents, seceded from the rule of Man in -1,666. A
 promising place, indeed. Unfortunately, when the expedition arrived
 in Gashikan in -1,658, Gashikan itself had been sacked by Vargr
 Suedzuk and the whole sector was in the middle of a race war. Not a
 promising place to found a new home.

 Admiral Tyrrell and his Geonee companion decided to continue farther
 away, in search of an appropriate area, beyond the Vargr Extents if
 necessary.

 It was necessary. Three years later, they left the extents and
 arrived in a sector that they named New Hope. Pay attention. This is
 the name of the sector you are in now.

 In New Hope, they found some Vargr, specially of the Urzaeng race
 (stronger than other Vargr, but no so clever), but also alien races
 native to the sector, and a cluster of worlds in the hands of the
 Hhkar mystery race (a reptilian race, scattered along known and,
 apparently, unknown space). But, more important, they found humans.
 There is a minor human race native to this sector, the Retani. Left
 behind by the Ancients in a world called Retan, they had obtained
 jump technology from Vargr traders half a millennium before. By the
 time the Tyrrell-Ardashee Expedition arrived, the Retani already
 controlled a dozen of worlds.

 The colonists settled down. A few years later, several waves of
 Suedzuk Vargr arrived in the sector, probably displaced from the
 massive interstellar conflicts originated after the Sack of Gashikan.
 Wars between the Suedzuk, the Urzaeng, and the humans, fostered
 cooperation between the Retani and the technologically more advanced
 expeditionaries. Around seventy years later, the Three Races Alliance
 was founded, encompassing the Retani worlds, a world colonized by the
 terrans, called Nawarth (by the way, the word "Solomani" is unknown
 here), and a Geonee world, called Ardashee. These alliance
 established a Unified Calendar based on the terran one, a unified
 economic system, and several other important things.

 Let us stop for a minute. There is a unified calendar. Today is the
 year 2,707 UC. But I cannot tell you which Imperial year it is. The
 Tyrrell-Ardashee expedition arrived here in -1,655 Imperial, but a
 lot of things have happened in the meanwhile and there are no clear
 historical records to establish exactly which UC date was this. The
 most accepted theory places it around -74 CU, which would place the
 current Imperial date in 1,126. Probably, the Rebellion is over and
 our emperor Lucan has already brought the Imperium to a new era of
 prosperity. But, according to other theories, it could have been as
 late as -50 CU or as soon as -150 CU. this places the actual imperial
 date between 1,102 and 1,202. We know that we left in 1,122, so it
 cannot be sooner than that, but the other date... well, this is
 irrelevant for us right now, but, hell, I would like to know which
 year is it.

 Anyway, let us go back to our history. Let me have a look at my
 notes, I want to give you a feeling of how different history is here.
 In year 0 UC, the Alliance of the Three Races was founded. A lot of
 things have happened since that. Wars with the Vargr were a constant.
 The Alliance fell eventually, and the three races (Retani, terrans,
 Geonee) followed different paths. The Retani were even absorbed by a
 Vargr state, the Ruganz Empire, based on a world called Dzorg, which
 is important today. When this empire fell, the sector experienced
 something similar to the Long Night, which they call "First
 Interreign". Ironically, the expeditionaries escaped the Long Night,
 but their descendants didn't.

 This Interreign finished with the birth of the Four Races Alliance,
 which included some Vargr worlds, in 1,367 UC. But a minor alien
 race, the Danak, rebelled, the government of the Alliance was taken
 over by a group of Admirals, and in 1,753 the Second Interreign
 started.

 Two hundred years ago, this "second long night" ended with the
 creation of a new political entity, called the Federation of the
 Races. Only two hundred years ago. This Federation is quite young,
 and not really consolidated, I would say. It started with Retan,
 Nawarth, Ardashee, and Dzorg. Today, it encompasses 32 worlds. Not
 eleven thousand, just 32. It has reached TL 13,  and maintains firm
 border policies against Vargr corsairs and the unpredictable Hhkar
 raids.

 It has been already two months since the terrans awakened me, and I
 have already realized that this sector is full of wonders, mysteries,
 and dangers. To mention only a few, there are constant conflicts
 between the Vargr states, the Federation, and the Hhkar, the Danak
 still refuse to join the Federation, there is a strange "infestation"
 of unknown origin which attacks dozens of ships per year, far traders
 are bringing back stories of huge battles between unknown races
 coreward... Also, the Federation itself is not very peaceful. Several
 balkanized worlds are in civil war at the moment. The big
 Corporations have private armies and apparently use them. And you can
 surely imagine the racial tensions, but the social ones are even
 worse.

 In summary, quite a lively place. I think I like it.

 You are probably losing patience by now. I am sorry, I really wanted
 to talk about this. But now, I should go back to the questions that
 you have in mind.

 The first is probably: How the hell have we arrived here?

 Unfortunately, I don't know. Apparently, our starship was found,
 unmanned, in one of the asteroid belts of the Federation. The
 automatic systems still worked, and were keeping us alive, but we
 could have been there one week or one year. No way to know. The
 starship was badly damaged, and, anyway, the authorities will not let
 us examine it. It's high tech for them, you know. It has already been
 dismantled and sent to several dozens of laboratories for study.

 My first hypothesis was that we misjumped, but now I find it quite
 improbable. The maximum previously reported length for a misjump was
 less than 40 parsecs, I think, and we are at almost 300 parsecs from
 our original location. Our ship must have been through a very
 interesting history. Maybe it was seized by Vargr corsairs who
 brought us to the extents for some reason. Maybe something weirder
 than a misjump happened. I do not know. This is another mystery that
 I hope we will be able to solve. By the way, of the original one
 thousand two hundred and seventy-two passengers, only six hundred and
 forty of us arrived here. We have the corpses of two hundred more,
 deceased due to unfortunate malfunctions. The rest just disappeared.
 A part of them even disappeared with their low berths. Puzzling.

 Now to your second question: What are we going to do here?

 Going back is discarded, for the moment being. We have no ship, and
 the Federation is not going to give us one. Besides, I see no real
 reason to risk my life traveling through the Vargr Extents, to go
 back to a Third Imperium which might still be at war, or maybe to
 find out that seventy years have passed by and nobody knows who I am.
 I recommend you to discard any ideas about going back. At least, get
 yourself a ship first, and wait until we have a better estimate for
 the date.

 After our discovery, the Federation authorities awakened two
 subjects, and those turned out to be me and Professor Borthan, an
 academic which you will meet at some moment. We spent a month trying
 to communicate, but, as I told you, one of the terran languages here
 is similar to galanglic. After that, we have been discussing with the
 Federation authorities. Some people, specially Retani, wanted to
 classify the whole matter and get all of us indefinitely quarantined,
 but, in the end, thanks to terran sympathies, we convinced the key
 people not to do so. Our existence has been made public, but people
 is not paying any real attention to us, we are just a society note.
 There are far more important things going on in the Federation.

 We have reached an agreement with the Federation. We all are going to
 be given Federation citizenship. For a month, you will be taught one
 local language and will be given time to get adapted to this new
 environment. Then, you will be thoroughly interviewed. I ask for your
 cooperation. The Federation is interested primarily in whatever
 advanced technical knowledge you may have. If you are a real expert,
 you will probably receive an offer to work for them. Please accept
 it. Advanced knowledge is better in the hands of the Federation than
 in the hands of Vargr corsairs. If you are not an expert, you will
 simply be released into the Federation, and you will probably receive
 some other offer. Being familiar with advanced technology is enough
 of an asset for several corporations to be interested in us.

 Professor Borthan and myself are going to start a new Federation
 Office, which will be known simply as Office KT-47. The purpose of
 this office is to provide you with some assistance, and to coordinate
 our efforts in our obviously common interests. I would like that all
 of you keep in touch with this office in the future. And I would
 probably ask some of you to work for the office, to help us answer
 some of the mysteries which I mentioned.

 To summarize: I recommend you to take your adaptation period easy and
 to make a decision to establish yourself here, in the Federation of
 the Races. This is an island of civilization in a sea of chaos, and
 many new experiences are waiting for you.

 Now, you should rest a bit. As soon as the doctors say that you have
 recovered, your language courses will start. We will see each other
 soon. Greetings, fellow citizen. And welcome to our New Hope.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #637
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Monday, July 6 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 638



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

RE: Dumb things people do.
Fleets of the Imperium
Does YOUR ship have a Lanthanum Grid?
re:comparing the versions
Re: re:comparing the versions
Re: Big Assets! (was TNE|TW2K Combat)
Sneaky WotC (was: GenCon UK)
Re: Fleets of the Imperium
Re: comparing the versions
Re: Fleets of the Imperium
Pistol firing bonuses?
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Re: Pistol firing bonuses?
CONVENTION NOTICE - BITS - UK Games Fest 98 18th July 98 Harlow, Essex, UK
Re: Shouldn't we be dead? (was Re: Supernovas)
Re: Does YOUR ship have a Lanthanum Grid?
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Re: Traveller Software tools for Linux
Re: comparing the versions
Getting off topic a bit...
The Whole Traveller Universe?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 20:54:44 +0800 (WST)
From: skribe <skribe@amber.com.au>
Subject: RE: Dumb things people do.

On 05-Jul-98 Steve Rennell wrote:
> I'm not sure that it is cheaper to sell meat live - it's quite 
> a difficult thing to ship sheep to Saudi Arabia without 
> losing 30% of them to travel stress en-route.

70% of something is better than 100% of nothing.  NZ, like Australia, sells
their produce to Saudi Arabia because the Saudis are willing to pay a good
price.  Unfortunately, they require live meat imports for religious and
social reasons.  Given that the Saudis are unlikely to change their customs
the alternative to the NZ farmers would be to find another market, one that
takes frozen livestock imports.  NZ has high labour costs when compared to
many nations that can offer the same service.  This means that while the
overall price for the meat is higher (and thereby reducing demand) the profit
to the farmer may not be when compared to shipping live exports to Saudi
Arabia (even including the 30% that they lose enroute).  Welcome to the
global market =).
- ---
skribe <skribe@amber.com.au>

Waste not, get your budget cut next year.

------------------------------

Date: 06 Jul 1998 10:38 EDT
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Fleets of the Imperium

Gentlefolk and fellow armchair tacticians,

How many 'fleets' were in the 3rd Imperium?
Or, perhaps a better question is: what is the average density
of fleets per sector in the 3I?

Looks like, during the 5FW, the Spinward Marches had, ummmm,
perhaps 6 or 7 fleets?  Or were there more, but some were
lurking?  And what about "reserve fleets"?

Besides those, I know of the Corridor fleet, a fleet around
Antares, a fleet just interior to Antares, a Core fleet,
probably more than one fleet along the Solomani border, plus
perhaps another couple fleets.

So in the civilized sectors is there perhaps only 1 fleet
per sector, and on the frontier sectors there are several?
Thinking caps on, please!

Also I'd like your opinions on what the average tonnage of
a fleet might be.  I think it's in the range of 1 to 5 mt.
Can anyone hazard a better guess or should I just take a
middle path and say 3 mt?

Who cares?  Well, it may answer a lot of questions in my mind
about military, industry and starship production rates in the 3I.

Rob

------------------------------

Date: 06 Jul 1998 10:18 EDT
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Does YOUR ship have a Lanthanum Grid?

Referee's Opinon:

From a gameplaying angle, it's better to have some limitation to
starships.  The "lanthanum grid" idea is nice, because it forces
shipowners to build a jump ship with a hangar for boats, rather
than just strapping them to the outside of the ship.

That's the only reason I like the grid, I think.  There may be
issues with jump drive replacement and upgrade, but on the whole
I think to me the grid is only good for enforcing hangars.

Rob

------------------------------

Date: 06 Jul 1998 10:11 EDT
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: re:comparing the versions

I think for all of these I have the same opinion:

CT:  Simple, straight-forward
MT:  Complex, comprehensive
TNE: Complex, comprehensive, Different Feel
T4:  Simple, yet complex.  Straight-forward, yet comprehensive.
GT:  Simple, comprehensive, Different Feel

Of course, these are not STUDIED opinions, just feelings I get.

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 08:18:08 -0700
From: "Dave Strebe" <strebe@intergate.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: re:comparing the versions

OK a quick question, what's GT?

Dave

- ----------
> From: Robert Eaglestone <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: re:comparing the versions
> Date: Monday, July 06, 1998 7:00 AM
> 
> I think for all of these I have the same opinion:
> 
> CT:  Simple, straight-forward
> MT:  Complex, comprehensive
> TNE: Complex, comprehensive, Different Feel
> T4:  Simple, yet complex.  Straight-forward, yet comprehensive.
> GT:  Simple, comprehensive, Different Feel
> 
> Of course, these are not STUDIED opinions, just feelings I get.
> 
> Rob

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 08:23:46 +0000
From: edjs@bitslayer.net
Subject: Re: Big Assets! (was TNE|TW2K Combat)

> Date:          Sun, 5 Jul 1998 03:39:39 -0400
> From:          Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
> 
> [...snippity-snip...]
>
> Ok, what can we do about this problem, for those of us that see it as
> a problem?  (Don't say...play XXX...because XXX probably has similar
> problems. ;-)

I'm going to try doing away with the hit-points concept entirely, instead just
rolling on a chart for wound severity.  ie.,

Roll 2D6+DV (+1 if head shot)
   2-3   Scratch
   3-8   Slight
   9-11  Serious
   12+   Critical

These are just off-the-cuff numbers.
I haven't decided yet how to use CON to modify this (perhaps a Formidible test of
CON to reduce the severity by one level?).

The usual wound effects would be in effect.  The initiative penalty for Serious
wounds I interpreted as being cumulative.  Perhaps in addition require a
Willpower task to do anything during a round, especially if it requires using the
wounded body-part.


- --
Edward Swatschek
edjs@bitslayer.net - edjs@mindlink.net - ICQ 2684960
http://home.mindlink.net/edjs/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 16:34:37 +0100
From: trisen@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: Sneaky WotC (was: GenCon UK)

SD Mooney wrote:
> Rob Day <rob@glisten.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > Any hints as to dates/location for this con?
>
> Loughborough University, 3 to 6 September 1998. WoTC are running it.



You forgot to add that GenCon UK will cost the same as last  year
<sound of cheering> ...

... but to achieve this there is a new GBP 5.00 per day door fee.
<sound of Homer Simpson saying "DOH!!!">



Regards PLST
<this tag-space for rent>

___________________________________
To sign up for a free email account, visit http://www.postmaster.co.uk.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 11:39:00 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: Fleets of the Imperium

At 10:38 AM 7/6/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Gentlefolk and fellow armchair tacticians,
>
>How many 'fleets' were in the 3rd Imperium?
>Or, perhaps a better question is: what is the average density
>of fleets per sector in the 3I?
>
>Looks like, during the 5FW, the Spinward Marches had, ummmm,
>perhaps 6 or 7 fleets?  Or were there more, but some were
>lurking?  And what about "reserve fleets"?
>
>Besides those, I know of the Corridor fleet, a fleet around
>Antares, a fleet just interior to Antares, a Core fleet,
>probably more than one fleet along the Solomani border, plus
>perhaps another couple fleets.

IIRC, each sector had a named fleet that encompassed all the numbered
fleets in the sector.  Each subsector then had a numbered fleet, ie. the
212th was at Rhylanor at the eve of the FFW.

Each numbered fleet consisted of several squadrons of similar ships, ie.
BatRons, CruRons, DesRons, etc.  Each squadron was composed of several
similar class ships and the assocoated support elements.  IIRC, the
Tigress, 500kt, was in a BatRon of 6 ships (?) which for just the capital
ships would be 3mt.  Add all the escorts and support ships and you are
probably looking at about 5mt fo one BatRon.

I would think that each numbered fleet would be closer to 15 to 20mt.



Kurt Feltenberger

“We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a
habit.”
- --- Aristotle ---

mailto:kurt@blazenet.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 17:46:11 +0200
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com>
Subject: Re: comparing the versions

> The US imports things from other parts of the same planet, not another
> planet (except maybe a few moon rocks :P ). The way I see it is with a
> populated enough planet (a couple billion or so) then there would be little
> need to import raw materials and stuff from other planets, just novelty
> items and such.

What???

If it's a populated enough planet, then the exact opposite is true - you
have a HUGE need to import raw materials from other planets.

Imagine a whole planets that had the population density of, say, New
Jersey - not completely packed, but packed in spots with some more open
spots around too. 

Where do you plan on putting the uranium refining plant? The lanthanum
strip mine? The few hundred steel mills you're going to need to make the
steel to build everything with? Where are you going to grow the lumber
(does lumber even grow there)? (and you can't put everything in orbit
either)

Raw material processing is ugly, messy, unpleasant and has low
profitability - any planet would be glad to be rid of it. Every forward
thinking planet would be the Imperium's version of Japan if they had
their way - import somewhat processed raw materials cheaply, export
expensive manufactured goods. The Imperium would foster that kind of
development as well - the more interstellar traffic, the greater the
need for the Imperium. In a universe of self-sufficient worlds, who
needs an Imperium?

Ethan
- --
Ethan Henry                                            egh@klg.com
Java Evangelist, KL Group                       http://www.klg.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 08:51:08 +0000
From: edjs@bitslayer.net
Subject: Re: Fleets of the Imperium

> Date:          06 Jul 1998 10:38 EDT
> From:          "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
>
> How many 'fleets' were in the 3rd Imperium?
> Or, perhaps a better question is: what is the average density
> of fleets per sector in the 3I?

There is normally one numbered fleet of 2 - 10 squadrons (50-200 ships) plus 
one numbered reserve fleet per subsector.  The Imperium as a whole had about 
320 numbered fleets. (as of 1116 - Rebellion Sourcebook)


> Besides those, I know of the Corridor fleet, a fleet around
> Antares, a fleet just interior to Antares, a Core fleet,
> probably more than one fleet along the Solomani border, plus
> perhaps another couple fleets.
>
> So in the civilized sectors is there perhaps only 1 fleet
> per sector, and on the frontier sectors there are several?
> Thinking caps on, please!

The term 'fleet' is used for a couple of levels of organization.  There are the 
numbered and reserve fleets, which always have a number as part of their name.  
Next, each sector has a named fleet (no number in name) which consists of all 
the numbered fleets in the sector.  As well, named feets can be created for 
specific purposes, to organize a large number of ships.


- --
Edward Swatschek
edjs@bitslayer.net - edjs@mindlink.net - ICQ 2684960
http://home.mindlink.net/edjs/

------------------------------

Date: 06 Jul 1998 11:49 EDT
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Pistol firing bonuses?

If Roland chooses to shoot with a pistol rather than
a rifle, should he get a DM for ease-of-aiming?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 13:11:51 -0400
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

Kristian Miller wrote:

> Other statistics support the 15% guaranteed miss (or actually a higher
> miss rate.)  In WW II it took some 200+ rounds of ammunition to cause
> one casualty in infantry combat.  Even considering suppression fire
> that's pretty bad.

Does this take into account that at most infantry operations, it was
estimatedthat only 20% were able to keep their cool enough to actually aim their
gun
to hit another human?

Some US Army General did a study and found this figure was true almost
across the board, even for the Marines at Iwo Jima, and resulted in the
more modern combat training, i.e., to shoot as a reflex, etc.

I think it was 1,000 rounds/casualty in VietNam.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 10:31:50 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Pistol firing bonuses?

No, because Pistol and Rifle are different skills in the cascade. Aiming
a pistol and aiming a rifle are different things.

Robert Eaglestone wrote:
> 
> If Roland chooses to shoot with a pistol rather than
> a rifle, should he get a DM for ease-of-aiming?

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 18:52:18 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: CONVENTION NOTICE - BITS - UK Games Fest 98 18th July 98 Harlow, Essex, UK

Forward post from Andy Lilly....

 BITS - UK Games Fest 98 on Saturday 18th July, 1998 at Harlow
         Sportscentre, Harlow, Essex

- -------
Hi all,

Just a quick reminder for any of you who can make it to play Traveller
(either for fun or in the tournament)

Games Fest is expected to be one of the major events prior to Gen Con UK,
so whether you want to play a game of Traveller, try something different,
buy the latest Traveller products (i.e. stuff from BITS now that we're the
only licensed publishers...), discuss Traveller issues, or brush up your
refereeing before Gen Con, MAKE SURE YOU'RE THERE!

UK Games Fest 98
Saturday 18th July, 1998
Harlow Sportscentre, Harlow, Essex, England.

	A giant new gaming convention organised by The Famous Last Words
Society
(FLWS). In summary, it will have Role-Playing Games, Magic & Other
Collectable Card Games, Live-Action Role-Playing, Fantasy and Historical
Wargaming, Trade Stands (Role-Playing, Figures, Tabletop Gaming, and
others), and lots more! Harlow is just off the M11 and well-served by
rail-links from Cambridge and London (the sports centre is only a short
walk from Harlow Town station).
	Tournaments (RPGA-approved):
		** TRAVELLER ** AD&D Open * AD&D Team Event * Star Wars *
Call of Cthulhu *
		Entry fee for each tournament is 50p except for the AD&D
Open which is £1. It's best if you contact the organisers and book in advance.
	Also throughout the day there will be demonstration and participation
games taking place, including:
		* TRAVELLER from B.I.T.S (British Isles Traveller Support)
		- The Huntingdon & District Wargaming Society
		- Games Workshop (Warhammer, Warhammer 40000, Gorkamorka)
		- Magic The Gathering, including DCI events (to be confirmed), 8 person
knockout tournaments (entrance fees available on request) & other CCGs
		- Battletech CCG - mini tournament
		- Hobby Games Demo Team will be running: Star Wars CCG sanctioned game,
			Star Trek CCG sanctioned game and Silent Death Competition.
		- Chivalry & Sorcery
		- Robo Rally
		- Balloon Wars
		- Live action role playing events throughout the day.
		- West Point
		- Netrunner CCG
		- Harlow Wargaming Group
		- Other suprise events !
	Entrance Fees are £2, £1.50 for RPGA Members or £1 for under16s.
	NOTE: This is a non-profit making event and all proceeds from the day are
being donated to the charity Sargent Cancer Care for Children. This is
possible because of the kind sponsorship of Marquee Models (games shop) and
Nortel (telecommunications corporation) of Harlow.
BITS CONTACT: Andy Lilly
	* E-mail: bits@bits.org.uk
	* Post: PO Box 4222, Sawbridgeworth, Hertfordshire, CM21 0DP.
	* Telephone: 01279-833773
ORGANISERS:
	* E-mail: utopian.tiger@virgin.net
	* If booking, send player names & RPGA number (if appropriate), the
events
being entered by each player and include your cheque made payable to Jan
Eldridge to:
	* Post: UK Games Fest, 264 The Dashes, Harlow, Essex, CM20 3RZ.

Andy

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 11:29:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Shouldn't we be dead? (was Re: Supernovas)

Leonard Erickson writes:
> He's considering the Gamma & X-rays from the blast. The real hazard at
> a distance is the "shockwave" (expanding "gas" shell). It's expanding
> at .8 c or better, and is mostly stripped atoms and free electrons.
> And at a density of several hundred to several thousand times that of a
> normal vacuum. Thus you'll be getting *huge* amounts of secondary
> radiation as all these particles hit the upper atmosphere. And it'll
> last for *months* if not years.

Hm...interesting point I was playing with.
Assume you _know_ that a supernova has occurred at some point fairly nearby --
exact timing, etc, is known.  Assume, also, that transporting your full
population in the time before the supernova hits is not practical.  To what
degree would it be possible to actually shield a planet against the effects of
a nearby supernova?  I was playing around with a plot involving a supernova,
and picked Hefry (1 parsec from Regina, class II orange giant, probably has a
visual magnitude of around -6 from Regina) as a relatively plausible candidate
(it has other factors which make it appealing from a gaming perspective).  It
was determined that a supernova was a significant probability around a year in
advance, so Regina would have around 4 years of warning, though the possibility
of serious governmental blindness before the event is confirmed (i.e. the star
actually blows) shouldn't be ignored.

So, how do you shield a planet from a supernova?  The initial gamma pulse isn't
necessarily all that hard -- you start by grabbing a convenient moonlet with
construction devices.  You probably want around 10^14 tons of 'stuff' available
to block with, moving that into place within a reasonable timeframe requires
between 10^9 and 10^10 tons of thrust.  That's probably more than available
construction tonnage, but even 10^12 tons of 'stuff' is enough to be useful,
and that much tonnage of thrusters might well be available.  You probably also
want your materials to be vaporized, but that isn't terribly difficult to do,
you just make sure your materials retain significant velocity as they meet. 
The timing is a little bit tricky, since your 'stuff' will move, and probably
cease to provide a useful shadow relatively quickly, but it doesn't have to be
there all that long.
Now, we need to eliminate the charged particles, which will be spread out a lot
more in time.  The trick here is distance and a magnetic field -- it shouldn't
take an utterly impractical magnetic loop to shadow the planet, if you put it a
ways off -- you probably can't trap the particles, but you can scatter them
with a field a lot weaker than your average planetary magnetic field.  I really
don't know the exact scale of doing this, but it doesn't seem impossible.

So, how possible does any of this seem given Imperial technology?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 15:16:38 -0400
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Does YOUR ship have a Lanthanum Grid?

Robert Eaglestone wrote:

> Referee's Opinon:
>
> >From a gameplaying angle, it's better to have some limitation to
> starships.  The "lanthanum grid" idea is nice, because it forces
> shipowners to build a jump ship with a hangar for boats, rather
> than just strapping them to the outside of the ship.
>
> That's the only reason I like the grid, I think.  There may be
> issues with jump drive replacement and upgrade, but on the whole
> I think to me the grid is only good for enforcing hangars.

How about this:
A jump coil produces an elipsoidal shaped bubble around the ship.  It
deforms a bit due to the length of the coil.  This makes for good
spherical and cylindrical ships, but those needle and boxy ships would
be wasteful if they had to rely strictly on the elipsoidal shape formed
by a coil.  For these ships, the jump field gets squished into place by
the lanthanum grid near the surface of the ship.

Thus, you can have jump coils and jump grids in the same universe.

Additional Note: Jump carriers may favor the jump coil method to be able
to encompass their cargo, however their jump efficiency would probably
be the same with or without the attached ships.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 15:44:16 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

In a message dated 7/6/98 6:17:08 AM PST, jongoff@et.byu.edu writes:

> > IIRC in TW2K a 'Quick Kill' on a PC moved the damage up one step - from
>  > slight to serious, and then you added the rolled damage to it. In your
>  > example the target (assuming they start unwounded) would have all his
>  > slight wound points used, plus the rolled damage - a garanteed serious
>  > wound and knockdown.
>  
>  Just to butt in, but IMO, quick kill should just amount to a serious
>  wound in that area.  Normal damage is used to calculate knockdown, but
damage
>  is automatically raised to a minimum of serious.  That would represent
>  shots that fracture skulls, or puncture arteries.  As it is, average Joe
(not
>  PCs,  just Joe on the street) have only INIT = 1.  Thus even slight wounds
>  should be able to incapacitate your average joe blow.  In fact, most
>  non-military people would be incapacitated by a serious wound.
  
Excellent.  I'm going to start using that T2k Quick Kill immediately.  Jon is
quite correct in his assessment.  Not having T2k I had to resort to my house
rule, but I find that is a better solution, all around.  

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 12:56:15 -0700
From: scharlto@ifsna.com
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

A couple of things to keep in mind, here; first (and most important)
shooting a range target is _much_ different than shooting in a combat
situation.  Second, most police departments train their officers in a
standing isocoles or Weaver stance (both hands on the weapon), but studies
have shown that almost all police shootouts have involved moving targets,
moving shooters, and one-handed shooting

After a number of diagreements about how the combat modifers in TNE should
work, I took two of my gamers out shooting twice on a three-day weekend,
and focused on nice calm Weaver-stance shooting.  Then, on the third day
(last Memorial Day), I had them try shooting at an outdoor range, from
non-stable positions, etc.  I also had them shoot one-handed.  The dropoff
in accuracy was amazing; I had people who were hitting center-mass 95% of
the time in the range barely able to make 25% at  8 yards.

In the month since then, I have gotten a lot less argument over some of the
combat die roll modifiers I insist on.

I will admit that I only consider a 20 to be an auto-miss, though...

Steve Charlton

Keven R. Pittsinger <jamstar@glasscity.net> said:

> On 07/05/98 at 10:49 PM,  Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net> said:
>
> >>IAC, in play, I *forget* that line entirely.  A natural 20 is a
> >>guaranteed miss, and I'm not entirely happy with a guaranteed 5% miss.
>
> >Well you could say that on a 20 you miss unless it a well aimed
> >braced/rested shot from an undetected position by the target.
>
> Yeah, there may be a case for a 20% guaranteed miss for hand guns and
> medium+ range too...nah, not 20% guaranteed.  I guess I can live with
> 5%.

There have been documented cases of police in shootouts that burned off 2
full *clips* at a perp in a gunfight & failed to hit.  These police were
pretty decent shots on the range.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 13:28:44 -0700
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Traveller Software tools for Linux

At 07:48 PM 7/1/98 -0400, Matthew Harelick wrote:
>Why use TCL?
>
>Why not use Java so its compatible everywhere?

I encourage all developers to look into Java, since it is my current
favorite language.  The technology is reasonably up to date, it is fairly
teachable, and it scales up well.  Further, it is about the only cross
platform solution which produces good UI across many platforms.

(I know people who have used Tk to do good UIs, and they have my utmost
respect.  I have found it disturbingly difficult to do such.)

One significant complaint - there is not yet a cheap DOS-only VM out there.
 Some potential authors have complained that a plain old 286 with DOS can
run a number of fine programs doing more than the program they are
considering, so why is there no JVM.

I have mostly (90%) finished a port of my text to postscript converters
into Java.  They do not yet handle borders and such, but they seem to
handle subsector, full page subsector, and half page subsector maps well
enough.  Currently, I am working on a SimEmpire program, which will
hopefully also do a good postscript write.

Scott

Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 13:36:36 -0700
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: comparing the versions

Brannon Boren wrote:

> On Sat, 4 Jul 1998, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
> > >>Economics
> > > It just doesn't work, why trade stuff to other planets when you living on a
> > > planet and that stuff will most likely be around somewhere, hell just import
> > > a survey team...
> >
> > If that was true, the US wouldn't import much.
>
> In 1850 it was routine for dirty laundry to be shipped from San Francisco
> to China to be laundered and ironed, then returned to SF.

Make that Hawaii, still a 4 to 6 week journey.

- --
Evyn,
Warleader of the Clan MacDude
Solus Stellamilitia Ludus, 1998 Œ

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 14:10:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
Subject: Getting off topic a bit...

> > In 1850 it was routine for dirty laundry to be shipped from San Francisco
> > to China to be laundered and ironed, then returned to SF.
> 
> Make that Hawaii, still a 4 to 6 week journey.

No, CHINA. I've been doing research for a script I'm working on and have
this data from multiple sources - it was economical to send laundry to 
China for washing and pressing during this time.

Ben

PS: This has gotten off topic, so I'll desist from further discussion of
this stuff.

- --
VAMPIRE (sees Buffy): "Slayer."
BUFFY (sees Vampire): "Slayee."

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 17:34:26 -0500
From: "Pearson Publishing" <jdpearson@wr.net>
Subject: The Whole Traveller Universe?

I've been using Jim's Galactician program for my CT campaign.  Does anyone 
know/have the layout to ALL the sectors?  Are the in order of appearance in the 
program (i.e. Rimward to coreward)?

I'm also still interested in finding a set of language tables for Galangalic or 
Angalic.  I'm going to be implementing more languages in my campaigns.  I'd 
also like to know if anyone has ever "published" a dictionary or set of 
vocabulary words for these languages.


Thanks for the input.


 -- James Pearson
"The purpose of a referee is to present obstacles 
for players to overcome as they go about seeking 
their goals, not to constantly make trouble for them.
This is a very subtle distinction ..."

The Traveller Book, p. 12

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/4089

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #638
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Monday, July 6 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 639



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: M:IW yet another ship sidebar
Re: Big Assets! (was TNE|TW2K Combat)
Re: Pistol firing bonuses?
Re: Big Assets! (was TNE|TW2K Combat)
Re: The Whole Traveller Universe?
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions) 
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Re: Big Assets! (was TNE|TW2K Combat)
Re: Does YOUR ship have a Lanthanum Grid?
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Re: comparing the versions
Re: comparing the versions
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
[none]
Re: Titan Games Preview for (7/5/98)
Re Tw2k/TNE Combat

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 17:54:45 -0400
From: drlane <drlane@mci2000.com>
Subject: Re: M:IW yet another ship sidebar

That was my brother <deadeye@ebicom.net>.  The story was backdrop for the
decor of a large assembly area and promenade in the Imperial Naval
facilities of the Apranosos Highport of the Imperial Fortress world of
Agiddian.  Ostensibly, the shadowy figure of a man identified as Nelson by
the witnesses appreared on the bridge of a Solomani ship during a climactic
battle of the IW.  It was essentially irrelevant to the story but was but
added tremendous texture to it.  The entire incident is based on a
supposedly real account of an angel appearing over a WW1 battlefield.

- -Dan Lane
- -----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
To: hiwg-twg@qrc.com <hiwg-twg@qrc.com>; isba@oasis.leo.org
<isba@oasis.leo.org>; isba@goldinc.com <isba@goldinc.com>;
traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Sunday, July 05, 1998 10:43 PM
Subject: M:IW yet another ship sidebar


This is another ship for the Interstellar Wars. The Lord Nelson incident was
insired by something I saw on one of the Traveller lists, but I can't remember
who it was from. Could whoever wrote about the appearance of Lord Nelson
during the interstellar wars please stand up so I can assign credit.

Agamemnon, Iron Duke class Ship of the Line (FF&S v2)
Designed by Andrew Moffatt-Vallance

Statistics
Tons: 30000 Td (SL Wedge Hypersonic)
Crew: 550/735
Cargo: 40 Td (1 x Large Cargo Hatch, Handling: 1 x 280 ton)
Volume: 420000m3
Passengers High/Med: 0/0
Cost: 65412.955 MCr
Mass (L/C): 523133t/516262t
Passengers Low: 0
Maintenance Points: 23173
Dimensions: 234.1m x 160.7m x 66.9m
Troops/Science: 30/0
Tech Level: 11
Size: 10
Frozen Watch: 0

Electronics
Controls: Dynamic, High automation. 3 x FibComp (CM: 0.4 CP: 2.5). Bridge.
Communications: 1 x Dir Radio (1,000AU, 0.2MW). 2 x Laser (1,000AU,
0MW).
Sensors: 1 x Sci PEMS (13.5 [16mkm] Sci, 0.02MW).
          1 x Sci AEMS (12 [1.6mkm] Sci, 50MW).
          2 x Sci LIDAR (15 [2mkm] Sci, 3.3MW).
Survey/Science:
ECM: 1 x Radio Jammer (1,000AU, 0.4MW). 1 x Area. Jammer (13,
25000MW).
      1 x Decp. Jammer (13, 50MW). 1 x Pas. Jammer (15, 2MW).
Signatures: Vis:0, IR:0.5 (0.5 at 46673MW, 0 at 8215MW), Act:0.5, Neu:1,
             Grav:2

Weaponry
10 x Heavy Laser Turret (+3) 1/2-0-0-0 [1,600/20-11-5-3] (LR)
2 x Light Laser Bay (+3) 1/10-10-8-5 [6,200/50-50-39-19] (LR)
2 x Missile Bay Auto 18/18 (Mag: 180 MFD: 500,000km)
       w/198 Cmd DL 1d6/3 [113] 6G/10 500,000km
1 x Heavy Spinal PA (+0) 2/14-14-14-14 [1,50/1556-1556-1556-1556] (LR)

Performance
2 Jump (3000 Td/pc fuel)
3/3.1 Maneuver (Thruster: 39375MW)
1/1 Contra-grav (7056MW)
3973kph/3996kph Atmosphere (Cruise: 2980kph/2997kph)
5 Power (Fusion: 82150MW, 0.25yr)
0 Battery
6220 Fuel (Scoop: 5 Purif: 168, 22MW)
0/720/15/0/0 Accomodations (735 x Sanitary Fittings)
9750 Person/Weeks Life Support (Type: Extended, Normal Food [Stored])
2 G-Comp
0 ESA
6 Sandcasters (AV: 113 Cans: 24)
0 Damper Turrets
0 Damper Screen
0 Meson Screen
0 Force Field
0 Gravtics
20 [58] Armor, 59 Structure (Crystaliron Hull)

Features
270 x Airlock
30 x Decontamination Airlock
2 x Docking Umbilical
3 x Electronic Shop (6 Td ea.)
3 x Machine Shop (10 Td ea.)
8 x Sickbay (8 Td ea.)
1 x Ship's locker (15 Td ea.)
15 x Prisoner Capacity (0/10/5)
1 x Armory (1.07 Td ea.)
5 x Full Galley (Cap: 150)

Small Craft
1 x Spaceous Hanger (80 Td, 2 hatches)

Backups
Drives:
Screens:
Communications: 2 x Dir Radio (1,000AU). 4 x Laser (1,000AU).
Sensors: 1 x Sci PEMS (13.5 [16mkm] Sci). 1 x Sci AEMS (12 [1.6mkm] Sci).
          2 x Sci LIDAR (15 [2mkm] Sci).
Survey/Science:
ECM:
Power & Fuel:

Crew Details
8 x Helm
374 x Engineering
68 x Maintaince
119 x Gunnery
6 x Screens
30 x Troops
100 x Command
24 x Stewards
6 x Medical

The Iron Duke Class were one of the earlest examples of the classic Terran
Ship of the Line and even though it was a rapidly outclassed in terms of
both
size and power, the class exhibits most of the common features of the type;
the large spinal particle accelerator, wedge hull form, extreme automation
to
reduce the crew requirements, extensive backup electronics and a heavy point
defence laser battery. The Iron Dukes were designed shortly after the end of
the 1st Interstellar War and formed the backbone of the Terran fleet during
the 2nd War and early 3rd War. In total 257 examples of the class were
built,
and though the class suffered heavily with the wholesale scrappings that
followed the 3rd War, some examples survived in auxilary roles for many
years. The longest serving was the Hiei which survived as a colonial guard
ship at Hades until 2402AD.

The most famous example of the class was the Agamemnon on which the
mysterious Lord Nelson incident occured. The Agamemnon was a reserve
squadron
flagship during the critical Battle of Junction in 2152AD. During the battle
the Vilani broke through the Terran line and attacked the reserve; and the
Agamemnon was struck by a spread of Vilani missiles which damaged the
ships
control systems and killed or injured most of the bridge crew. At this point
the "ghost" of Admiral Lord Horatio Nelson (1758AD - 1805AD) "appeared" on
the ships bridge. He exhorted the crew to attack the Vilani centre. The
senior officer (Leftenant Pi Yu) choose to follow this course of action,
against all naval doctrine of the time. The result was that against all
expectations the reserve smashed the Vilani breakthrough and turned the tide
of the battle in the Terrans favour.

The incident has thus far defied explanation. The ship's internal bridge
sensors were offline due to battle damage at the time, so no accurate
independent record exists, but the incident was confirmed after the battle
by
the Agamemnon's surviving bridge crew (some 17 individuals). It is known
that
the ship's jump grid had accidentally discharged due to the damage
sustained.
The most commonly accepted explanation is a mass hysterical delusion
brought on by combat stress and the jump grid discharge; however the
incident
still remains a tantalising mystery and is the subject of much popular
debate.

The Agamemnon herself suffered severe damage during the battle, and though
she was repaired, she was never again employed in frontline service. She
served as a convoy escort until the end of the 3rd War and was then assigned
as a colonial guardship at Midway until 2172AD when she was designated as
an
escort for the long range colonisation program. The Agamemnon left for the
Rim in 2177AD and her ultimate fate is unknown.
Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 18:17:37 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net>
Subject: Re: Big Assets! (was TNE|TW2K Combat)

At 11:05 PM 7/5/98 , Eris Reddoch wrote:
>snip<
>>Ok change that to a skill of 6 and attribute of 12.
>
>That's more like it.  Still an attribute of 12 is pretty rare in TNE,
>1/36 plus a +2G homeworld if I'm not mistaken.  Personally, I let the
>players distribute points within the range of 3 to 9, and being a
>heretic they distribute 50 among 8 attributes.

Most of my players were not playing generalists PC's most of the time they
were dman good at one thing and had other skills.

Sinbad Sam
sinbad@hex.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 16:20:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Cook <markc@peak.org>
Subject: Re: Pistol firing bonuses?

Robert Eaglestone <eaglesto@nortel.ca> writes:
> 
> If Roland chooses to shoot with a pistol rather than
> a rifle, should he get a DM for ease-of-aiming?

If anything, he should get a *NEGATIVE* DM for a shorter sight radius.
(When the front and rear sight on a weapon are closer together, it
increases the margin of error when aiming.)

        - Mark C.
          Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy
          EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75
          Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR
          NRA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 mark f. cook * mark cook consulting *  shoestring graphics & printing
 2055 s.w. whiteside dr. * corvallis, or, 97333-1406 * markc@ssgfx.com
 Phone: 541-753-2732      Fax: 541-753-2738       http://www.ssgfx.com
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
       "Where am I... and what am I doing in this handbasket?"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 18:23:04 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net>
Subject: Re: Big Assets! (was TNE|TW2K Combat)

At 11:31 PM 7/5/98 , Jimmy Simpson wrote:
>snip<
>Most of the characters in our group were generally oriented towards one
>skill area (Engineering had the engineering skill, Mechanical, etc.) and
>several other lower level skills.  We generally had one or two individuals
>that had fairly high tactics skill.  We generally had no problem taking on
>the small fleets and small armies, but we generally had a harder time
>against the lone Aslan gunman (gunalsan?).  He nearly wiped us out single
>handedly.

After all the deliberate planned attempts by NPC's to kill the group, a
lone random NPC almost did it in, it was a laugh. It taught me to quit
planning so hard and just let it happen.<G>

>The Vargr.  I don't remember where he came up with that revolver, but even
>with a 0 skill level he was deadly with it.  Unfortunately, it was
>generally us he was hitting.  We got to where we would load it and duck
>behind him and find cover, generally a couple blocks behind him with a
>couple of buildings for cover.

Ahh the PC comments "Loook out the the Vargr is drawing the pistol, find a
bunker fast." James had the worst luck with dice when tried to fire that
pistol, not even close to average rolls. Maybe it was cursed.<G> But it was
comic relief at times.

Sinbad Sam
sinbad@hex.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 16:25:56 -0700
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Re: The Whole Traveller Universe?

http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/ftp/secdata2.zip

It is a Excel 97 spreadsheet that graphically displays the sector locations
(and various sector names in each language).  It was originally intended to
link to the other spreadsheet to provide the sector data (such as I have),
but if you are just looking for the location of the sectors, it should work
for you.  I am not familiar with Galactician, so I can't compare them.

Hope that helps!

douglas


E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller
IMTU tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls
The early bird gets the worm, BUT
   the second mouse gets the cheese!
- -----Original Message-----
From: Pearson Publishing <jdpearson@wr.net>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Monday, July 06, 1998 3:42 PM
Subject: The Whole Traveller Universe?


I've been using Jim's Galactician program for my CT campaign.  Does anyone
know/have the layout to ALL the sectors?  Are the in order of appearance in
the
program (i.e. Rimward to coreward)?

I'm also still interested in finding a set of language tables for Galangalic
or
Angalic.  I'm going to be implementing more languages in my campaigns.  I'd
also like to know if anyone has ever "published" a dictionary or set of
vocabulary words for these languages.


Thanks for the input.


- -- James Pearson
"The purpose of a referee is to present obstacles
for players to overcome as they go about seeking
their goals, not to constantly make trouble for them.
This is a very subtle distinction ..."

The Traveller Book, p. 12

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/4089

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 18:30:18 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions) 

At 01:23 AM 7/6/98 , Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:
>> On 07/05/98 at 10:49 PM,  Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net> said:
>> 
>> >>IAC, in play, I *forget* that line entirely.  A natural 20 is a
>> >>guaranteed miss, and I'm not entirely happy with a guaranteed 5% miss.
>> 
>> >Well you could say that on a 20 you miss unless it a well aimed
>> >braced/rested shot from an undetected position by the target.
>> 
>> Yeah, there may be a case for a 20% guaranteed miss for hand guns and
>> medium+ range too...nah, not 20% guaranteed.  I guess I can live with
>> 5%.
>
>There have been documented cases of police in shootouts that burned off 2
full *clips* at a perp in a gunfight & failed to hit.  These police were
pretty decent shots on the range.

Keven,

Unfortunately my anecdotal's were of persons with a little bit better
training like SWAT, or even better SEALS, SAS, or Mil Spec snipers(L.H.
Oswald for one). Under the TNE systems they will missed 20% of the time,
under all conditions and situations.

Contrary to most persons living here in the US most police officer's do not
normally posses the skills, expertise, or mental ability for *real* fire
fights, some veterans excluded of course.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 18:33:57 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

At 02:08 AM 7/6/98 , Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:
>snip<
>Other statistics support the 15% guaranteed miss (or actually a higher
>miss rate.)  In WW II it took some 200+ rounds of ammunition to cause
>one casualty in infantry combat.  Even considering suppression fire
>that's pretty bad.

Kristian,

Ok then Sgt. York of WWI got a even better success rate what was it IIRC 10
rounds=200+ prisoners and ten kills.

Most of the troops were not trying to hit anything just firing at anything.

Sinbad Sam
sinbad@hex.net
 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 18:36:48 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net>
Subject: Re: Big Assets! (was TNE|TW2K Combat)

At 02:14 AM 7/6/98 , you wrote:
>snip<
>The 5% miss rate comes from "range" conditions which don't simulate
>panic, adrenaline or real bullets flying back at the shooter.  History
>and the news are full of gunfights where a 20% miss rate was several
>times better than the real miss rate.

Kristian,

I would consider such individuals a skill of 1 or 2, very few had I would
consider a skill of 3, but then they did not have the other things needed.

Sinbad Sam
sinbad@hex.net
 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 16:27:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Cook <markc@peak.org>
Subject: Re: Does YOUR ship have a Lanthanum Grid?

Robert Eaglestone <eaglesto@nortel.ca> writes:
> 
> Referee's Opinon:
> 
> From a gameplaying angle, it's better to have some limitation to
> starships.  The "lanthanum grid" idea is nice, because it forces
> shipowners to build a jump ship with a hangar for boats, rather
> than just strapping them to the outside of the ship.
> 
> That's the only reason I like the grid, I think.  There may be
> issues with jump drive replacement and upgrade, but on the whole
> I think to me the grid is only good for enforcing hangars.

Remember that a jump tender can carry riders on it's exterior if the
riders have grids of their own.  The tender simply contains one huge
honking jump drive, which powers it's own grid as well as those of
the riders.

In fact, isn't this how modular external cargo containers work?  They
must have a grid imbedded in their hulls or they'd interrupt the grid
of the ship on which they're mounted.

If you want to guarantee a financial limitation, you have to make sure
that the installation of a grid by itself is just as pricey as the
installation of a jump drive.

        - Mark C.
          Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy
          EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75
          Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR
          NRA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 mark f. cook * mark cook consulting *  shoestring graphics & printing
 2055 s.w. whiteside dr. * corvallis, or, 97333-1406 * markc@ssgfx.com
 Phone: 541-753-2732      Fax: 541-753-2738       http://www.ssgfx.com
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
       "Where am I... and what am I doing in this handbasket?"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 18:53:54 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

At 02:56 PM 7/6/98 , Steve Charlton wrote:
>A couple of things to keep in mind, here; first (and most important)
>shooting a range target is _much_ different than shooting in a combat
>situation.  Second, most police departments train their officers in a
>standing isocoles or Weaver stance (both hands on the weapon), but studies
>have shown that almost all police shootouts have involved moving targets,
>moving shooters, and one-handed shooting
>
>After a number of diagreements about how the combat modifers in TNE should
>work, I took two of my gamers out shooting twice on a three-day weekend,
>and focused on nice calm Weaver-stance shooting.  Then, on the third day
>(last Memorial Day), I had them try shooting at an outdoor range, from
>non-stable positions, etc.  I also had them shoot one-handed.  The dropoff
>in accuracy was amazing; I had people who were hitting center-mass 95% of
>the time in the range barely able to make 25% at  8 yards.
>
>In the month since then, I have gotten a lot less argument over some of the
>combat die roll modifiers I insist on.
>
>I will admit that I only consider a 20 to be an auto-miss, though...

Steve,

Ok Marine General "Chesty" Puller in his enlisted days in Central America
is credited with a hip shot with a 45 while running for cover shooting at a
target in canoe going down river at less than 50 yards. Hit the target in
the ear. Yes he was aiming to hit the target too, not just FFE.

Your gamers would be a skill of 0 or 1? Beginners I think would have what
you have described, but *experts* would not.

When I was a "shooter" I practiced one handed and two handed firing and
different stances. I used/owned a modified 45, 357 Ruger, 44 Ruger
Blackhawk, 9mm Mamba and a 22 cal Ruger Target. I have fired others like
the 221 Fireball and the TC 30 cal Herrett(sp), most interesting to say the
least. 

I would place myself at a skill of 3 during those times but I did not have
the mental to go along with it. I could have shot two Naval
Officers(Commander and Lt. Commander) and most likely killed them under the
conditions I was in, but I did not. It would have entirely legal also, and
justified under the conditions.

Sinbad Sam
sinbad@hex.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 18:08:00 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

At 01:11 pm 7/6/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
>
>Kristian Miller wrote:
>
>> Other statistics support the 15% guaranteed miss (or actually a higher
>> miss rate.)  In WW II it took some 200+ rounds of ammunition to cause
>> one casualty in infantry combat.  Even considering suppression fire
>> that's pretty bad.
>
>Does this take into account that at most infantry operations, it was
>estimatedthat only 20% were able to keep their cool enough to actually aim their
>gun
>to hit another human?
>
>Some US Army General did a study and found this figure was true almost
>across the board, even for the Marines at Iwo Jima, and resulted in the
>more modern combat training, i.e., to shoot as a reflex, etc.

	Discovery Channel or TLC did a piece on this recently. The studies
(in Korea) did in fact show what was mentioned above: in the midst of
combat (instead of a low-threat range situation), most armed
combatants failed to fire a single round--and I think the 20% number
above was a bit high. IIRC, no more than 15% of the troops in any
engagement actually fired their weapons. Not aimed or hit
targets--fired.

	The "culprit" was traced to the fact that it's a fairly horrible
decision to actually kill another human being, and that most people
unconsciously froze when faced with it. 

	The solution was to condition the troops to automatically fire their
weapons at any man-sized target without having to actually make a
decision. Hence, firearms training (again, in a low-threat
environment) involves firing at targets as soon as they pop up,
without giving the shooter time to think. Eventually, it becomes
near-automatic. The "modern" rate, IIRC, is somewhere around 75% of
eligibles actually pulling the trigger. Again, that's just pulling
the trigger to fire the weapon ...

	Meanwhile, this doesn't explain the individual 15% miss rate. That's
explained by the fact that the game designers couldn't stomach the
reality that the miss rate in real-life combat situations is often
*80-90%* even at close ranges. It's a very rare individual who can
accurately aim and fire when under fire himself.

	If you really wanted realism, you'd start there, and then give
bonuses for, e.g., nobody shooting at you. Failing that, I always
played the 15% auto-miss as under "full" combat, and reduced it in
situations like surprise, sniping, etc.

- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 20:22:51 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: comparing the versions

In a message dated 7/4/98 21:52:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
brannonb@animal.blarg.net writes:

<< 
 > >>Economics
 > > It just doesn't work, why trade stuff to other planets when you living on a
 > > planet and that stuff will most likely be around somewhere, hell just import
 > > a survey team...
 > 
 > If that was true, the US wouldn't import much.
  >>

This actually reminded me of the line in Armageddon..."American components,
Russian components...they're all made in Taiwan!"

My Cr.02 on the movie, BTW:  entertaining, but a little over the top.  Go see
it to have fun, not get a course in astronomy.

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 20:33:49 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: comparing the versions

In a message dated 7/5/98 3:30:23 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
wulf@sea.southern.co.nz writes:

<< Well that might not be realistic.  9mm are pretty pathetic actually...
There
 > are notorious instances of those Samoan guys not going down after taking
over
 > 20 x 9mm rounds... >>

I hadn't heard of the Samoans...but I know the reason the US Army went from
.38 cal revolvers to the Colt M1911 .45 was because the Moro tribesmen in the
Phillipines (around the turn of the century)  could not be stopped by the
.38's.  It seems they would take a rawhide thong and bind thier testicles so
tightly that they could feel no other pain.  There are documented reports of
Moros being shot 15+ times with .38's and still managing to kill several
people before  dying of blood loss.

I also worked for 2 years at a mortuary in Phoenix in 90-92.  I picked up one
man who shot himself in the toe w/ a .22 cal pistol, and died of shock on the
phone w/ the 911 operator...we also picked up another individual who had been
a victim of a drive by.  He had been shot no less than 19 times, by a 9mm, a
.45, and a 12-ga.  The man apparently walked 1500 yds before he died ( based
on the location of the casings and the guys body when we arrived)  I'd say it
simply depends on the individuals willpower (and luck, of course)

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 20:40:57 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

As far as the lethality of hanguns goes...I seem to remember an article in
Challenge magazine (can't recall the exact issue, of course...but it would
have been in 93-maybe early 94) taken from a San Diego PD study into police-
involved shootings.  I can't remember the exact #'s, but it studied around
13-15 incidents involving shootings, with only 2 fatalities...both execution-
style headshots as I recall.  Maybe someone else will find this article?

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 20:50:51 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

In a message dated 7/6/98 10:14:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time, blueboy@bu.edu
writes:

<< Does this take into account that at most infantry operations, it was
 estimatedthat only 20% were able to keep their cool enough to actually aim
their
 gun
 to hit another human? >>

I can speak to the fact in MY personal experience (Korea, 1988) that I went
thru 5 loaded mags of .223, while ducking behind a rock one nite (talk about a
mad minute!  :-) )  We had been fired on by surprise and I just hit the
ground, stuck my rifle up and burned thru the ammo w/o looking...panic
reaction.  My whole squad did much the same thing...dawn showed one NK dead
with 1 hole in him...we expended better than 1000 rds for that!

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 17:22:37 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: [none]

>>About the reduction of attributes, I agree and like that T4,
>>etc. reduce specific attributes.  But I think that there ought to be
>>some reduction in effective intelligence or education (for skill
>>tests only), as a result of Stress, Shock, Fatigue, etc.  I know that
>>I can't recite pi to the 4th digit after being on the bottom of a
>>rugby scrum.  I know the answer but getting the old noodle to kick
>>out the correct answer is a bit difficult.
>
>Absolutely!  Most people just don't think all that clearly after
>taking a blow, especially to the head.
>
>Eris
>- --

In Either Traveller's DIgest or MTJ, there is an article on hit locations,
which expands the attributes allowed damage to all except soc... and even
soc is viable...

- -wil

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 18:20:33 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Titan Games Preview for (7/5/98)

  These used items might be of use to someone. No miniatures, though :)

        http://www.titan-games.com/

>FASA:
>    (Traveller)
>        Adventure Class Ships Vol. I Booklet (B1) [$6, VF]
>        Aslan Mercenary Ships Booklets [$8.5, VF]
>GDW:
>    (Traveller)
>        Alien Module 2 - K'kree (255) (never stapled)[$40, NM]
>        Alien Module 8 - Darrians (264) [$35, NM]
>        Double Adv. 2 - Mission on Mithril/Across the Bright Face (313)
[$10.5, F]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 17:33:34 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re Tw2k/TNE Combat

>>Doug,
>>
>>When you went thru sniper school would they have passed you if you missed
>>15% of the time?
>>I have talked to some VN era snipers that I have contact with and they only
>>had a 15% or worst chance of missing only under extremely difficult
>>conditions.
>
>My way around that is to rule that a shot by an undetected sniper is not
>really 'in combat' so the auto-miss is on a 20 only, not 17-20.
>

Use the weapon specialization from Tw2K Referee's Scree... It allows
developing a specialization in a given weapon, reducing the auto-miss
chance. It also reduces the recoil number for the user...

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #639
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Tuesday, July 7 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 640



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Trav Fig Substitutes
Fleet Strengths
Re: 
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Re: Small scale colonization in Traveller
Re: Shouldn't we be dead? (was Re: Supernovas)
Re: Does YOUR ship have a Lanthanum Grid?
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
sensor task and campaign update
Small Scale Colonization
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
re: M:IW yet another ship sidebar
Re: Hit Locations
Re: Trav Fig Substitutes
Re: comparing the versions
Re: Big Assets! (was TNE|TW2K Combat)
Re: Big Assets! (was TNE|TW2K Combat)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Jul 98 18:39:54 +0100
From: Niko Wieleba <scarab1@pacbell.net>
Subject: Trav Fig Substitutes

Hello:

In the case no one mentioned it earlier, I think it's Geo Hex that makes 
a line of 25mm figs called "Stargrunt" that can be used in a pinch.

As I recall, they have everything from male and female marines to a 
Japaenese school girl.

Happy hunting!

Niko
scarab1@pacbell.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 17:52:48 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Fleet Strengths

>Gentlefolk and fellow armchair tacticians,
>
>How many 'fleets' were in the 3rd Imperium?
>Or, perhaps a better question is: what is the average density
>of fleets per sector in the 3I?
>
According to MT sources, there is a "Sector Fleet" for every sector, an
Numbered and a Reserve Fleet for every subsector, and some extra numbered
fleets, and a few special fleets. WHat varied seems to have been specific
combinations of ships per fleet, rather than "Fleets per Area". Basically,
a fleet will have at least 1 CruRon, 1Desron, 1 ScoutRon, and 1 AuxRon...
Usually more , with a core of a BatRon. Also, the AuxRon is Usually
seperated from the TankRon. Also, most will have 1 or more assaultRons for
panetary punishment. the FFW countermix seems to be "Deployable Groups" and
"Deployable ___Rons"

Oh, and remember a Ron is at least 10 of something. Some subsectors can't
even afford A fleet... others could afford 20 or more.... but the map shows
no ss with more than 4 numbered fleets, Excluding Core. It is strongly
implied that EACH numbered fleet has a reserve fleet.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 21:20:40 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net>
Subject: Re: 

At 08:22 PM 7/6/98 , William F. Hostman wrote:
>snip<
>In Either Traveller's DIgest or MTJ, there is an article on hit locations,
>which expands the attributes allowed damage to all except soc... and even
>soc is viable...
>
Wil,

IIRC it was a Space Gamer or Different Worlds article I have around here
some where oopss it is "On Target" by Steve Cook, page 18 what issue well
it does not show on my photocopy. It also has the effects of broken bones.
But it may not be the article that you are referring to.

Sinbad Sam
sinbad@hex.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 19:34:23 +0000
From: edjs@bitslayer.net
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

> From:          DustyLV769@aol.com
> Date:          Mon, 6 Jul 1998 20:40:57 EDT
>
> As far as the lethality of hanguns goes...I seem to remember an article in
> Challenge magazine (can't recall the exact issue, of course...but it would
> have been in 93-maybe early 94) taken from a San Diego PD study into police-
> involved shootings.  I can't remember the exact #'s, but it studied around
> 13-15 incidents involving shootings, with only 2 fatalities...both execution-
> style headshots as I recall.  Maybe someone else will find this article?

It's in #73 (Lethality In Roleplaying Small Arms Systems, Frank Chadwick).  I 
recall it being posted to GEnie way back when, and thought I still had it saved 
somewhere, but no such luck.

It's a report of 5 incidents that occured on the US-Mexican border.  The San 
Diego PD set up an undercover task force to look for criminals preying on 
illegal aliens in a rugged, undeveloped area of the border. 

Here's an excerpt from the observations at the end of the article:

- ----------begin----------
In the 5 incidents presented above, task force officers fired about 90 rounds, 
most of them at close range, and scored 29 hits, or 32%.  Of even more interest 
are the 8 shots fired while effectively in physical contact with the target.  
Of these 8 shots, only 4 were hits (50%).  Finally, it is interesting how many 
of the casualties were acheived by one man, Chacon.  Although he apparently did 
not fire or score hits in incident 3 and was not present for incident 1, he hit 
with his only shot in the fifth incident, was the only officer to hit Hernandez 
in the fourth incident , and actually scored at least one, and perhaps more, 
hits on _every_ man (including two friendly officers) wounded in the second 
incident.

As to bullet lethality, a total of 15 officers and suspects were wounded in 
these 5 incidents, and they were hit by a total of 32 bullets.  Most of the 
injured men were struck by a single bullet; 4 were struck by multiple bullets, 
and of these one was struck by 8 bullets.  Of these 15 casualties, 2 were 
killed almost instantly while the other 13 survived and recovered.  All those 
that suffered multiple gunshot wounds recovered.  That is, none of the 
fatalities were caused by a cumulative build-up of trauma, but rather were due 
to a single, almost instantly fatal wound.
- ----------end-----------

The two fatalities:

Fatality 1:
   A knife-wielding suspect jumped one officer.  During the struggle, a second 
   officer jumped on the suspect's back, put his snub-nosed .38 to the back of 
   the suspect's head, and fired once.  The shot killed the suspect instantly, 
   and temporarily blinded the officer that fired.

Fatality 2:
   Officer Chacon fired a shotgun at point-blank range into the center-chest of 
   a suspect.  The suspect stood for a moment looking at him, then turned 
   around and calmly walked away into the darkness.  Chacon followed cautiously 
   (wondering if he had somehow missed or the suspect was wearing body armour), 
   and found the suspect lyng peacefully on the ground, dead of massive chest 
   injuries.

Chart of hit locations:

   Area         #Hits  %ofTotal

   head & neck    2       6       1 fatal hit (50%)
   chest         11      34       1 fatal hit (9%)
   abdomen        4      13
   limbs         15      47

   all           32     100       2 fatal hits (6%)



- --
Edward Swatschek
edjs@bitslayer.net - edjs@mindlink.net - ICQ 2684960
http://home.mindlink.net/edjs/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 04:35:48 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Small scale colonization in Traveller

Ian writes:
>This article is aimed at the space in between - essentially, at creating a
>set of rules to put flesh out the activities involved in a low-effort
>colonisation, so that the colonisation effort and running the colony
>afterwards can be the focus of a roleplaying campaign.

Have you considered tying this more closely to _World Builder's Handbook?_
I think WBH had a lot of good ideas, but lacked a few finishing touches.


>Equipment
>
>The second stage is the organisation of the colony expidition. This will
>need four things - money, money, money and people. The base cost of a
>colonisation effort aimed at establishing a colony for 1000 people is 4
>megacredits, times one point [PE atmosphere infrastructure modifier] times
>transport costs of one point [distance in parsecs from source world, times
>two if TL9 or 10 transport is used], times the TL of the source world.

At this level I would think that one could be more specific about transport
costs. If you know the amount of equipment and the number of people to be
moved, it should be possible to let the PCs chose the particular ship they
want to hire and work out a schedule of transportation. That way you get an
exact number of weeks the ship is hired and a weekly (or monthly) rate of
hire for an exact transportation cost.

>This gets what is in effect a colony starter kit, comprising a 20 MW power
>plant (usually fission), a multi-purpose ore refinery, a food production
>facility, a hydrogen/oxygen cracker, a plastics manufacturing plant,
>prefabricated shelters, a sick bay, a mechanical shop, an electronics shop
>and several bulldozers. If the world has a less than benevolent atmosphere,
>then the equipment includes air compressors, vacc suits, protective domes
>and so on as appropriate.

How much more effort would it be to come up with a shopping list of these
items with appropiate costs? That way the PCs will be able to chose whether
to spend the money on a spare bulldozer or the extra cash needed to make it
a fusion plant, or whatever.

>While shopping, remember that this will be a colony of two TLs below the
>world the equipment was bought on, at least at first. Equipment at higher
>TLs than this will not be able to be repaired and may not be able to be
>maintained locally.

Rather, spare parts cannot be manufactured locally and engineers and
mechanics becomes very important colonists. 

>The basic equipment masses 500 displacement tons, times one point [PE
>atmosphere infrastructure modifier] and masses 3500 tons.

Point of information: The equipment carried by an Aslan ihatei ship is said
to be 1.5 T per colonist.

>The base difficulty of finding 1000 eager colonists is an easy Recruiting
>or a medium task for any of the Streetwise, Admin or Liason cluster,
>involving spending 1 megacredit.

How about working out some recruiting rules similar to the rules in
_Mercenary_?

>Constitutional Issues
>
>The next issue is organising the legal and government structure of the new
>colony.

Actually, that issue can affect the recruiting considerably. There would be
quite a difference between, say, raising the venture capital by selling
places in the colony to people and in having a few fat cats putting up all
the money and recruiting suitable skilled personnel. In the first case you
would have a democratic setup with everybody having an equal say in the
running of the colony (and the skills the colonists had would not always be
exactly what you needed. In the second place you would have some kind of
oligarchy. A company providing the money would be yet a third situation
because the colony would have to pay a dividend on the investment as they
went along.

>If some known model is not being used, then drafting a workable set of laws
>is a Difficult Legal task, taking as many months as the target law level.
>Failure results in a law level (2d6-7) levels different from that planned
>for. Spectacular failure results in a Law Level determined at random.

How about a couple of generic sample constitutions to fit the most usual
setups?

>At this point, the world is now settled, and gets a type E starport, a TL
>of 2 below where the colony equipment was bought and a UWP and economic
>extention as appropriate. The world has a Resources score calculated during
>the Survey phase, and an Infrastructure score of three. Culture is
>determined by the weighted average of the Culture scores of the worlds the
>colonists came from, as modified by special recruiting efforts.

I don't really think the macro-level economic extension of PE is suitable
for a micro-level colony management game. Take Infrastructure, for example.
This is actually a combination of roads, vehicles, production equipment,
and production housing. What is the infrastructure of a colony with one
settlement, no roads, four aging grav trucks, two Mobile Fabrication Units,
and a lanthanum mine right next to the settlement? Actually, the effective
infrastructure of a small colony can easily be quite high. It's only when
the settlers spread out across the countryside and the grav trucks begin to
break down that the infrastructure score begins to go down.

>Population change occurs annually as per the rules in Pocket Empires. All
>population growth above 3%, and half of all growth below 3%, represents
>immigration, and immigrants bring KCr 1d6 apiece with them to the colony.

A newly established colony may have a very high population growth provided
it has restricted recruits to younger people. Take as an example a parent
society with an annual population growth of 3%. Say its population has an
average life expentancy of 80 years and that most people have their
children before they are 40. Now, the 3% is actually a birth rate of 4.25%
offset by a death rate of 1.25%. Then take a colony made up of people
below the age of 40. If the colony has no serious dangers, the death rate
is going to be almost nil for many years to come. At the same time 4.25% of
the total population is actually 8.5% of the population below 40, so the
colony growth rate could easily be 8.5% pa. Before any immigration. If you
have an even more skewed population composition (perhaps 80% adults to only
20% children), you can get even higher growth figures.

>The basic Traveller rate of interest is 3%,

How do you arrive at that figure? The rate of interst on starship loans is
somthing around 5.5%.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 23:07:17 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Shouldn't we be dead? (was Re: Supernovas)

> with a field a lot weaker than your average planetary magnetic field.  I
really
> don't know the exact scale of doing this, but it doesn't seem impossible.

It sounds like you're talking about some kind of planetary level sandcaster.
Screening out gamma rays and w/ a magnetic (or gravitic) field of some kind
instead of xrays and coherent light...  

> So, how possible does any of this seem given Imperial technology?

It just seems like a sandcaster on a macro scale.  I don't see why not if
sandcasters are at all possible.

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 23:07:16 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Does YOUR ship have a Lanthanum Grid?

> From a gameplaying angle, it's better to have some limitation to
> starships.  The "lanthanum grid" idea is nice, because it forces
> shipowners to build a jump ship with a hangar for boats, rather
> than just strapping them to the outside of the ship.

There are obviously gaps in the grid.  Just look at the cover of the SoM.  It
has large gaps for the windows of the Beowulf free trader and probably over
the Thruster Plates (or Heplar heat exchanger depending on your viewpoint), as
well as the turrets.   And think of the large bore of a spinal mount?  We can
assume there's a cover w/ a grid but we can also assume alot of things.
"Strap on" craft (cutters) are also visible in the original Traveller
illustrations of the Broadsword I've seen.  What's a few more, as long as it's
on a similar scale (as most small craft will be to the mothership)?

IMTU, both lathanum grids and coils are possible.  The Vilani favored grids
and the Solomani generally followed suit.  
 
> That's the only reason I like the grid, I think.  There may be
> issues with jump drive replacement and upgrade, but on the whole
> I think to me the grid is only good for enforcing hangars.

The major benefit for hangars is maintenence w/o having to go EVA, to say
nothing of protection of small craft.  

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 23:07:14 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

> Does this take into account that at most infantry operations, it was
> estimatedthat only 20% were able to keep their cool enough to actually aim
their
> gun to hit another human?

Wouldn't it follow that pcs should/would probably be in the same boat?
Besides, I think we're talking about Quick shots rather than Aimed shots.

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 23:16:32 -0400
From: Michael Houghton <herveus@access.digex.net>
Subject: sensor task and campaign update

My players are assembled on Wonstar (Five Sisters). The Noble with the
fancy Yacht has an axe to grind and a wanted poster. He keeps muttering
something about a head in a block of lucite... So another player (up and
coming Law Enforcement; didn't miss a promotion in three terms; got
cashiered) is on the trail of this same person. Add in a Marine General
(ret) for fire support.

They locate their quarry in the second city. Some legwork identifies the
place he is staying (a dumpy saloon/inn). Take the ship's boat there; use
the Air/Raft to motor around (can you say stand out?). Turns out the quarry
checked out a couple of hours ahead of them. Took a taxi. Shake down the
taxi company for info. They dropped him at the rent-a-wreck place. Seems he
hired a Land Rover equivalent and headed out into the back country
(scattered agricultural settlement all over the place).

The players have decided that aerial recon is in order; they have decided
to use the ship's boat for the mission.

Now for the search: using MT, I reckon that the task to locate this vehicle
is Difficult (uncertain). The rental vehicle is painted in a distinctive
livery. The terrain is mostly open and not rough; there are not large areas
of heavy forest to hide in. Unfortunately, the quarry has about a six hour
lead on the players, and a hasty search will be in failing light at best.

The quarry is aware of the pursuit; he is hoping to circle back into town
under cover of darkness and hole up for a couple of days. He (the "bad" guy
(just misunderstood ;))) has a Safari Ship in orbit with the launch in the
outback under cover. The players might locate it on a special success. They
don't know that he has one.

At one point I asked the players who was Clint Eastwood and who was Lee Van
Cleef. They giggled.

What do people think of the search task? It might be easier using the
sensors on the yacht, but it is limited by orbital mechanics, while the
boat is a bit more flexible. The Air/Raft might work a bit better, but they
don't have enough seats for everyone they plan to include in the hunt.

thanks...

Michael

- ------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@access.digex.net  | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
                          | http://www.access.digex.net/~herveus/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 23:36:33 -0400
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: Small Scale Colonization

I used to play Outpost (a game of building a colony on a hostile planet).
Since you play the last survivors of humanity, no new immigrants come
in and no new supplies show up - you make it with the stuff you brought,
the stuff you build and the people you breed.

One thing they mention in Outpost is factors in Mortality Rates (MT).
Your initial MT due to age is very low (you brought young adults with
you for the colony), and it's also low for disease (you used decontam
procedures and didn't bring anyone with the sniffles). During the initial
colonization efforts, however, your fatality rate from accidents is
very high. Think of it: you bring several thousand people from a safe,
long-civilized world to a wilderness, possibly one with a hostile
environment, and have them take part in heavy construction projects
that are very time-critical. Yes, you trained them, but until they get some
personal experience on this brave new world they are going to die a lot
more often than usual.

Once the habitat domes are up, the oxygen plant is built and the
fusion plant is online, your mortality rate from construction accidents
starts to decline - the careless and clumsy people have already wised
up or died off, and the survivors are experts at vacuum-environment
construction (or whatever you've had to put up with). The few babies
born during the intial construction phase are joined by a steadily
increasing baby boom - another nice side effect of bringing young,
healthy people along. As it will be still some decades before age
becomes a factor in mortality rates, your colony will go through 
some pretty impressive growth, even if there is no immigration.

There should be little to no emigration during the colony growth
period - the only major emigration I can think of is if a good chunk
of the population were corporate or Imperial construction crews
that stayed for five years or so to finish initial construction projects.
Locals should be so poor that leaving is not an option - unless, as
has happened on Earth a time or two, the colonists find something
incredibly valuable on their plot of land, sell it and all go on with their
millions back to civilization while fortune-hunters strip-mine their old
colony site.

Immigration has been covered by the other excellent posts on this
subject - I'm not sure what percentages the ideas on mortality causes
would indicate, but I think they make sense and should be taken into
account.


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 20:41:42 -0700
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

I don't recall the Challenge article but I have read the San Diego PD
study in its entirety.  It has been published as a book.  It had some
interesting data.  Some that I recall:

9mm has a much higher penetration than .45.
.45 does have a higher knockout rate than 9mm.
The report settled on .41 Magnum as the best police round (interesting.)

Kristian

DustyLV769@aol.com wrote:
> 
> As far as the lethality of hanguns goes...I seem to remember an article in
> Challenge magazine (can't recall the exact issue, of course...but it would
> have been in 93-maybe early 94) taken from a San Diego PD study into police-
> involved shootings.  I can't remember the exact #'s, but it studied around
> 13-15 incidents involving shootings, with only 2 fatalities...both execution-
> style headshots as I recall.  Maybe someone else will find this article?
> 
> DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 21:53:13 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

At 11:07 pm 7/6/98 EDT, you wrote:
>> Does this take into account that at most infantry operations, it
was
>> estimatedthat only 20% were able to keep their cool enough to
actually aim
>their
>> gun to hit another human?
>
>Wouldn't it follow that pcs should/would probably be in the same
boat?

	I think this is what TNE's Init was most likely intended to
simulate--those who've been under fire and survived are more likely
to respond correctly ...
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 21:55:48 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

At 07:34 pm 7/6/98 +0000, you wrote:
>> From:          DustyLV769@aol.com
>> Date:          Mon, 6 Jul 1998 20:40:57 EDT
>>
>> As far as the lethality of hanguns goes...I seem to remember an
article in
>> Challenge magazine (can't recall the exact issue, of course...but
it would
>> have been in 93-maybe early 94) taken from a San Diego PD study
into police-
>> involved shootings.  I can't remember the exact #'s, but it
studied around
>> 13-15 incidents involving shootings, with only 2 fatalities...both
execution-
>> style headshots as I recall.  Maybe someone else will find this
article?
>
>It's in #73 (Lethality In Roleplaying Small Arms Systems, Frank
Chadwick).  I 
>recall it being posted to GEnie way back when, and thought I still
had it saved 
>somewhere, but no such luck.

	I have it, and I have a new scanner. Does Marc's blanket permission
to photocopy out-of-print material for sharing apply to this kind of
sharing?
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 21:02:22 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: M:IW yet another ship sidebar

re: the Iron Duke class:

> 20 [58] Armor, 59 Structure (Crystaliron Hull)
This seems underarmoured for a capital ship = especially only a 3-G
maneuver one - though standards during the second interstellar war may 
have been lax.

By the way - do you reazlly think Terra was TL-11 during the second war?
Terra was TL-9 during contact with the Vilani, right? When did they go to
TL-10 and TL-11? (Just asking - I have some M:IW designs of my own I've
been tinkering with.)

(I'll rate your ship on my new combat suystem and add it to the examples,
with Andrew's permission...)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 23:10:13 -0500
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@fastlane.net>
Subject: Re: Hit Locations

At 09:20 PM 7/6/1998 -0500, you wrote:
>At 08:22 PM 7/6/98 , William F. Hostman wrote:
>>snip<
>>In Either Traveller's DIgest or MTJ, there is an article on hit locations,
>>which expands the attributes allowed damage to all except soc... and even
>>soc is viable...
>>
>Wil,
>
>IIRC it was a Space Gamer or Different Worlds article I have around here
>some where oopss it is "On Target" by Steve Cook, page 18 what issue well
>it does not show on my photocopy. It also has the effects of broken bones.
>But it may not be the article that you are referring to.
>
>Sinbad Sam
>sinbad@hex.net
> 
I think the one he is probably referring to is TD 13 in the Medical Digest
portion.  It was in the 2nd of 3 issues covering replacement body parts. 

The location rolls were:
2 - Right Foot
3 - Right Hand
4 - Right Leg
5 - Right Arm
6 - Lower Torso (Additional roll of 1d-2 for number of organs hit)
7 - Upper Torso (Additional roll: 1-2 - Heart
                                               3-5 - Lungs
                                               6 - Both heart & lungs)
8 - Head (Additional roll: 1 - Right Eye
                                    2 - Left Eye
                                    3 - Right Ear
                                    4 - Left Ear
                                    5 - Throat
                                    6 - Roll Twice)
9 - Left Arm
10 - Left Leg
11 - Left Hand
12 - Left Foot

This was for MT, so you rolled once for a moderate wound, twice for a
serious wound and three times for a deadly wound.  If a serious or deadly
wound level, the body part rolled must be replaced.

I hope that this is what you were looking for.


Jimmy Simpson
	nimrodd@fastlane.net
"Cannot say.
 Saying, I would know.
 Do not know.
 So cannot say."
		-Zathras (Babylon 5)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 00:07:40 -0400
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: Trav Fig Substitutes

At 09:29 PM 7/6/98 -0500, Niko wrote:
>Hello:
>
>In the case no one mentioned it earlier, I think it's Geo Hex that makes 
>a line of 25mm figs called "Stargrunt" that can be used in a pinch.
>
>As I recall, they have everything from male and female marines to a 
>Japaenese school girl.
>

Well, they import 'em, anyway...  They're for the StarGrunt minis rules
from Ground Zero Games... most of the figs are reasonably serious (i.e.,
they're not 400 lb caricatures!!!) SF figs...  Good stuff...


Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 08:34:29 +0400
From: Andy Long <andyl@icluae.co.ae>
Subject: Re: comparing the versions

I don't have my reference here, but I recall an article in one of the
later(?) issues of *Challenge* that reported on a survey of firearms
wounds, based on incidents involving the US Border patrol on the Mexican
border.

There were many instances of multiple hits NOT putting the target down.
(I'll try to find the article when I get home tonight).

Andy

================================================================
smtp Email:			andyl@icluae.co.ae OR
						andylong@emirates.net.ae
x400 Email:			c=ae;a=emdan;p=icl;ou1=abu0101;
						s=Long;i=AG;
						o=International
Computers Ltd;
A.G. Long, c/o ICL	Phone:	+971 (2) 335200/338066
PO Box 7237			Fax:	+971 (2) 338724
Abu Dhabi
United Arab Emirates
================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 23:49:40 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Big Assets! (was TNE|TW2K Combat)

On 07/06/98 at 10:50 PM,  Anson Betts
<Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz> said:

>Exactly, range conditions are the optimum environment. Imagine your
>character walks out of their favourite night-spot and round the
>corner comes into contact with a bunch of hoods... This ain't a
>range, this is an alley, the targets are trying to put a knife in
>you, aim, or shoot, or club them with the lump of metal in your fist.

Ok, I understand the points that you and Kristin are making, but I
think the right way to handle this kind of thing is with the
difficulty of the task.  A short range non-aimed shot it's already a
Difficult task, so an asset of 14 (which is pretty outstanding, I
think) the chance of success is 70%.  If you raise the difficulty to
Formidable because of the circumstances (such as the one you presented
above) the chance of success drops to 35%.  To *me* that looks like
the right way to handle it.

The automatic miss on 17+ (20%) only really comes into play on aimed
shots at Short range for most people.  It seems to me that if you have
the time and concentration to aim then that's precisely where you
*shouldn't* have a 20% automatic miss.  

The other place it would come into play is with a *highly* skilled
character who has a Gun Combat Asset of 17+, but how common is that?
And if somebody is *that* good then an automatic 20% *still* seems way
too high.  


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 00:20:45 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Big Assets! (was TNE|TW2K Combat)

On 07/06/98 at 08:23 AM,  edjs@bitslayer.net said:

>I'm going to try doing away with the hit-points concept entirely,
>instead just rolling on a chart for wound severity.  ie.,

>Roll 2D6+DV (+1 if head shot)
>   2-3   Scratch
>   3-8   Slight
>   9-11  Serious
>   12+   Critical

>These are just off-the-cuff numbers.

Interesting take!

The 2d6+DV is the way the "big guns" do it already, so you're unifying
small with large weapons.  I like that, quite a lot.  

How about melee weapons?  And how about for unarmed kick and punch
attacks..still UCD (unarmed combat damage)?

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #640
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Tuesday, July 7 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 641



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Megatraveller I: The Zhodani Conspiracy
Re: Does YOUR ship have a Lanthanum Grid?
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Re: Traveller Software tools for Linux
re: M:IW yet another ship sidebar
Which issue?
Re: Re Tw2k/TNE Combat
AUCTION: MegaTraveller/DGP (Sol&As, Var&Vil, WBH, SOM, etc.) Update 1
Re: Tw2k/TNE Combat
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Shooting
TRTOOLS 0.97.1 is here...
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Hit chances
Re: Small scale colonization in Traveller

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 17:27:10 +1200
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Megatraveller I: The Zhodani Conspiracy

>I thought making money was too easy.  Once I figured that out it was a
>breeze to finish.


Yeah, you can make megabucks by importing FGMP's to high law worlds :)

Cheers,
 Anson

I have no place for prejudice.

IMTU: tc+ tm tn++ !t4 !tg tt+ to ru ge+ !3i c- jt+ au ls+ pi+ ta++ he++

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 00:30:35 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Does YOUR ship have a Lanthanum Grid?

On 07/06/98 at 03:16 PM,  Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com> said:

>Thus, you can have jump coils and jump grids in the same universe.

I use both in mine.  ;-> The grid inside the hull armor produces the
protective interface between the bubble of normal space and deadly
jump space.  The coil and jump mass are used to open the rift though
which the ship enters jump space.

The coil and fuel are required at the beginning of jump, but the coil
can be shut down after the ship is actually *in* jump space.  The grid
has to continue running as long as the ship remains in jump space.

Eris

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 00:35:39 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

On 07/06/98 at 12:56 PM,  scharlto@ifsna.com said:

>The dropoff in accuracy was amazing; I had people who were hitting
>center-mass 95% of the time in the range barely able to make 25% at 8
>yards.

I believe you.  The difficulty just got at least one level higher
didn't it? ;->

>In the month since then, I have gotten a lot less argument over some
>of the combat die roll modifiers I insist on.

I don't have a problem with die roll mods, or low chances of success.
Just an automatic 20% miss. ;->

>I will admit that I only consider a 20 to be an auto-miss,
>though...

Ah ha! I thought we probably agreed on this. ;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 00:54:23 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Traveller Software tools for Linux

On 07/06/98 at 01:28 PM,  Scott Ellsworth
<Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu> said:

>>Why not use Java so its compatible everywhere?

>I encourage all developers to look into Java, since it is my current
>favorite language.  The technology is reasonably up to date, it is
>fairly teachable, and it scales up well.  Further, it is about the
>only cross platform solution which produces good UI across many
>platforms.

If you are interested in Java application development you might want
to look at CoffeeShop at
http://www.sfs-software.com/coffeeshop/index.html

It is an inexpensive RAD utility that is similar to how Delphi or
Visual Basic work, ie. you can do pretty impressive stuff without
being a masterful UI programmer.  Because it is written in Java
itself, CoffeeShop is truely cross platform and will run on *nix,
Window, OS/2, and the Mac (I assume the Mac can handle JDK 1.1.5 or
higher).  And best of all, to a cheapskate like me, it is under $100! 
;->

Eris

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 18:16:06 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: re: M:IW yet another ship sidebar

Date sent:      	Mon, 6 Jul 1998 21:02:22 -0700
From:           	bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
 
> re: the Iron Duke class:
 
> > 20 [58] Armor, 59 Structure (Crystaliron Hull)
> This seems underarmoured for a capital ship = especially only a 3-G
> maneuver one - though standards during the second interstellar war may 
> have been lax.

Uhmm, good point

> By the way - do you reazlly think Terra was TL-11 during the second war?
> Terra was TL-9 during contact with the Vilani, right? When did they go to
> TL-10 and TL-11? (Just asking - I have some M:IW designs of my own I've
> been tinkering with.)

Yep, its one of the fundimentals of the period. The Terrans were TL 9 going into 
the first war (2110AD), TL 10 at the end (2118AD) and TL by 2120AD. Basically 
the Terrans met the Vilani an simply reverse engineered everything.

> (I'll rate your ship on my new combat suystem and add it to the examples,
> with Andrew's permission...)

Most certainly, thank you. However in light of yours and some other coments, 
I've slightly reworked the design.

Agamemnon, Iron Duke class Ship of the Line (FF&S v2)
Designed by Andrew Moffatt-Vallance

Statistics
 Tons: 30000 Td (SL Wedge Hypersonic)
 Crew: 492/696
 Cargo: 50 Td (1 Large Caro Hatch, Handling: 1 x 700 ton)
 Volume: 420000m3
 Passengers High/Med: 4/20
 Cost: 42838.922 MCr
 Mass (L/C): 533053t/525084t
 Passengers Low: 0
 Maintenance Points: 20522
 Dimensions: 234.1m x 160.7m x 66.9m
 Troops/Science: 30/0
 Tech Level: 11
 Size: 10
 Frozen Watch: 0

Electronics
 Controls: Dynamic, High automation. 3 x FibComp (CM: 0.4 CP: 2.5). Bridge.
 Communications: 1 x Dir Radio (1,000AU, 0.2MW). 2 x Laser (1,000AU, 
0MW).
 Sensors: 1 x Sci PEMS (13.5 [16mkm] Sci, 0.02MW).
          1 x Sci AEMS (12 [1.6mkm] Sci, 50MW).
          2 x Sci LIDAR (15 [2mkm] Sci, 3.3MW).
 Survey/Science:
 ECM: 1 x Radio Jammer (1,000AU, 0.4MW). 1 x Area. Jammer (12, 2500MW).
      1 x Decp. Jammer (13, 50MW). 1 x Pas. Jammer (15, 2MW).
 Signatures: Vis:0, IR:0.5 (0.5 at 46744MW, 0 at 6615MW), Act:0.5, Neu:1,
             Grav:2

Weaponry
 20 x Heavy Laser Turret (+3) 1/2-0-0-0 [1,600/20-11-5-3] (LR)
 6 x Light Laser Bay (+3) 1/10-10-8-5 [6,200/50-50-39-19] (LR)
 4 x Missile Bay Auto 18/18 (Mag: 180 MFD: 500,000km)
       w/198 Cmd DL 1d6/3 [113] 6G/10 500,000km
 1 x Heavy Spinal PA (+3) 2/14-14-14-14 [1,50/1556-1556-1556-1556] (LR)

Performance
 2 Jump (3000 Td/pc fuel)
 3/3 Maneuver (Thruster: 39375MW)
 1/1 Contra-grav (7115MW)
 3942kph/3967kph Atmosphere (Cruise: 2957kph/2975kph)
 4 Power (Fusion: 66150MW, 1yr)
 0 Battery
 6708.8 Fuel (Scoop: 6 Purif: 72, 55MW)
 0/700/20/0/0 Accomodations (740 x Sanitary Fittings)
 9620 Person/Weeks Life Support (Type: Extended, Normal Food [Stored])
 2 G-Comp
 0 ESA
 10 Sandcasters (AV: 113 Cans: 24)
 0 Damper Turrets
 0 Damper Screen
 0 Meson Screen
 0 Force Field
 0 Gravtics
 50 [229] Armor, 59 Structure

Features
 270 x Airlock
 30 x Decontamination Airlock
 4 x Docking Umbilical
 3 x Electronic Shop (6 Td ea.)
 3 x Machine Shop (10 Td ea.)
 8 x Sickbay (8 Td ea.)
 1 x Ship's locker (15 Td ea.)
 20 x Prisoner Capacity (0/0/20)
 1 x Armory (25.71 Td ea.)
 4 x Gym (2.5 Td ea.)
 4 x Full Galley (Cap: 185)

Small Craft
 1 x Spaceous Hanger (120 Td, 2 hatches)

Backups
 Drives:
 Screens:
 Communications: 2 x Dir Radio (1,000AU). 4 x Laser (1,000AU).
 Sensors: 1 x Sci PEMS (13.5 [16mkm] Sci). 1 x Sci AEMS (12 [1.6mkm] Sci).
          2 x Sci LIDAR (15 [2mkm] Sci).
 Survey/Science:
 ECM:
 Power & Fuel:

Crew Details
 8 x Helm
 331 x Engineering
 58 x Maintainance
 135 x Gunnery
 10 x Screens
 30 x Troops
 95 x Command
 24 x Stewards
 5 x Medical

The Iron Duke Class were one of the earilest examples of the classic Terran
Ship of the Line (the first to be fitted with thrust plates) and even though
it was a rapidly outclassed in terms of both size and power, the class
exhibited most of the common features of the type; the large spinal particle
accelerator, wedge hull form, extreme automation to reduce the crew
requirements, extensive backup electronics and a heavy point defence laser
battery. The Iron Dukes were designed shortly before the start of the 2nd
Interstellar War and formed the backbone of the Terran fleet during the 2nd
War and early 3rd War. In total 185 examples of the class were built, and
though the class suffered heavily with the wholesale scrappings that followed
the 3rd War, some examples survived in auxilary roles for many years. The
longest serving was the Hiei which survived as a guardship at Hades until
2402AD.

The most famous example of the class was the Agamemnon on which the
mysterious Lord Nelson incident occured. The Agamemnon was a reserve 
squadron flagship during the critical Battle of Junction in 2152AD. During the 
battle the Vilani broke through the Terran line and attacked the reserve; and the
Agamemnon was struck by a spread of Vilani missiles which damaged the 
ship's control systems and killed or injured most of the bridge crew. At this 
point the "ghost" of Admiral Lord Horatio Nelson (1758AD - 1805AD) 
"appeared" on the ship's bridge. He exhorted the crew to attack the Vilani 
centre. Against all naval doctrine of the time, the senior surviving officer 
(Leftenant Pi Yu) choose to follow this course of action. The result was that 
against all expectations the reserve smashed the Vilani breakthrough and 
turned the tide of the battle in the Terrans favour.

The incident has thus far defied explaination. The ship's internal bridge
sensors were offline due to battle damage at the time, so no accurate
independent record exists, but the incident was confirmed after the battle by
the Agamemnon's surviving bridge crew (some 17 individuals). It is known that
immediately prior to the incident the ship's jump grid had accidentally
discharged due to the damage sustained. The most commonly accepted
explaination is a mass hystereical delusion brought on by combat stress and
the jump grid discharge; however the incident still remains a tantalising
mystery and is the subject of much popular debate.

The Agamemnon herself suffered severe damage during the battle, and though
she was repaired, she was never again employed in frontline serivce. She
served as a convoy escort until the end of the 3rd War and was then assigned
as a colonial guardship at Midway until 2172AD when she was designated as 
an escort for the long range colonisation program. The Agamemnon left for the
rim in 2177AD and her ultimate fate is unknown.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 01:18:19 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Which issue?

On 07/06/98 at 05:22 PM,  "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
said:

>In Either Traveller's DIgest or MTJ, there is an article on hit
>locations, which expands the attributes allowed damage to all except
>soc... and even soc is viable...

Does anyone happen to know which mag and issue?

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 01:21:03 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Re Tw2k/TNE Combat

On 07/06/98 at 05:33 PM,  "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
said:

>Use the weapon specialization from Tw2K Referee's Scree... It allows
>developing a specialization in a given weapon, reducing the auto-miss
>chance. It also reduces the recoil number for the user...

Sigh! Not in my version again!  Could you give me a synopsis of how
weapon specialization worked?

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 23:20:42 -0700
From: Joel Pratt <jpratt@ucla.edu>
Subject: AUCTION: MegaTraveller/DGP (Sol&As, Var&Vil, WBH, SOM, etc.) Update 1

AUCTION: MegaTraveller/DGP Items Update 1

**Please don't send bids to the list - it annoys other listcritters and
(worse) I may not see them.

NOTE: The next auction update may take a while to get posted - I'm going
out of town for several days, and will be unable to access my account.
Thank you (in advance) for your forebearance.

Rules:
1) Email all bids to jpratt@ucla.edu
2) Purchaser pays ALL shipping charges.
3) American funds only, please, as check or money order.
4) Items will be held until check clears.
5) Bidding will continue until price stops rising. Going/Goingx2/Gone.
6) Email me (jpratt@ucla.edu) if you have any questions.
7) All items are in Excellent to Near Mint condition unless otherwise noted
8) Frequent status updates will be emailed to bidders.
  Mailing list will receive only one update. [This one]
9) Thanks for looking.
**10) No buyout or group bids - unless they're *really* out-of sight
[i.e. $700 carries this whole bundle away]


Items:

GDW STUFF
=========
MT Player's Manual (Minimum Bid: $4)
(Good condition - errata points indicated with highlighter)
$7 Blueboy

MT Referee's Manual (Minimum Bid: $4)
(Good condition - errata points indicated with highlighter)
$7 Blueboy

MT Imperial Encyclopedia (Minimum Bid: $5)
$8 Blueboy

MT Rebellion Sourcebook (Minimum Bid: $5)
$10 William

MT Referee's Companion (Minimum Bid: $5)
$10 William

MT COACC (Minimum Bid: $5)

MT Knightfall (Minimum Bid: $5)
$10 Kurt

MT Fighting Ships of the Shattered Imperium (Minimum Bid: $5)

MT Hard Times (Minimum Bid: $6)
$10 William

MT Arrival Vengence (Minimum Bid: $3)
$10 Kerby

MT Assignment: Vigilante (Minimum Bid: $5)
$10 William

MT Astrogator's Guide to Diaspora Sector (Minimum Bid: $5)
$10 William


DGP STUFF
=========
MT Alien Vol. 1: Vilani & Vargr (Minimum Bid: $30)
$35 Blueboy

MT Alien Vol. 2: Solomani & Aslan (Minimum Bid: $30)
$31 Phil

MT World Builder's Handbook (Minimum Bid: $40)
$40 Jen

MT Starship Operator's Manual (Minimum Bid: $30)
$50 William

MT 101 Vehicles (Minimum Bid: $20)

MT Flaming Eye (Minimum Bid: $15)
$15 Elliott
$15 Greg

MT Referee's Gaming Kit (Minimum Bid: $10)
[Ref screens, equipment sheets, folio adventures]
$10 Jen
$10 Greg

- --Joel Pratt
jpratt@ucla.edu

"Bill Clinton does not have the moral fiber to be a mass murderer."
 -- Nobel Peace Prize recipient Dr. Henry Kissinger, Spring 1997

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 02:30:35 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Tw2k/TNE Combat

> Use the weapon specialization from Tw2K Referee's Scree... It allows
> developing a specialization in a given weapon, reducing the auto-miss
> chance. It also reduces the recoil number for the user...

I've been hearing of alot of  T2K rules that should be in TNE, methinks.  Can
anyone here (Loren maybe?) say why they weren't?  The quick kill rule and
specialization for one both sound like real good ones (as do controlled
bursts)...

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 02:30:34 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

> Unfortunately my anecdotal's were of persons with a little bit better
> training like SWAT, or even better SEALS, SAS, or Mil Spec snipers(L.H.
> Oswald for one). Under the TNE systems they will missed 20% of the time,
> under all conditions and situations.

You're talking awesome and *rare* shooters.  They should get a special
dispensation from the rules, I think.  Either adopt Ruperts 20 or  the T2k
specilization maybe?, I think. 

and seperately:

> Ok then Sgt. York of WWI got a even better success rate what was it IIRC 10
> rounds=200+ prisoners and ten kills.

Sgt York shouldn't be typical.  If he's that stat12 skill 6 super duper weapon
master then he should only miss on maybe 1 in 20.

> Most of the troops were not trying to hit anything just firing at anything.

But PCs *should* behave like most of the normal infantry and such.  The way to
simulate it is a larger chance of pure miss.  I'd say give the notarized <g>
experts a special rule.

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 07:47:55 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Shooting

After WWII, a study by the US army or some such led to a radical change in
training methods. The reason was that many to most (50+) combatants did not
fire in combat, being reluctant (as mentioned elsewhere) to shoot another
human being. Training methods were revised to get people to actually shoot.

To quote a book (written by a friend-of-a-friend; I have every reason to
believe that this autobiographical account is true) about the Falklands War
of 1982:

'How can I tell you that the man I killed was just a paper target to me? A
target appeared, I fired. Just like they taught me. I knew what I was
doing, but it didn't matter. Trained reflex.'

I have this on the authority of another ex-soldier. 'At the time, you just
do it. Later, you might think I DID THAT. But at the time it's just like
being on the range. Aim and fire. I've done it so many times before.'

This reflects the training methods used more than the men involved. 

But as soon as lead starts flying back, then you start to miss.

I used to impose an extra difficulty factor to shooting if there is any
'combat stress' present (firing at an unsuspecting target is not subject to
stress. Trying to shoot the guy who's about to bayonet you is.)

Thus my players found that the place to be was in cover, on a flank or
behind the enemy, firing by surprise. Manoeuvre and stealth became more
important than tactics pools. Standing up and blazing away = highly
dangerous. There's usually someone on the other side in cover, not
stressed, aiming at your wonderfully exposed body.....

Used to? Guess I still do.

MJD

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 15:13:44 +0800
From: "Michael Bailey" <mickb@opera.iinet.net.au>
Subject: TRTOOLS 0.97.1 is here...

Somehow, in between the demands of work and play, I've overhauled TRTOOLS
and finished a new version.  For those new to the list, TRTOOLS is a set of
command-line utilities for Traveller (non version specific).

TRTOOLS 0.97.1 has a few new features, but most of my effort went into
thoroughly cleaning up the code prior to attempting a Linux port (console
only using SVGALIB, I'm looking at an X Windows version later on down the
track).

TRTOOLS features (from the README file):

* Map Sector:    by Allegiance, by Tech Level, by Starport, by Population,
by Habitability, by   Travel Zone, by Bases, select Trade Code

* Map Subsector

* Map 'theatre'

* Calculate Hard Times (Megatraveller) effects

* Calculate Collapse (TNE) effects

* Regress Second Survey data to T4's M:0 era.

* Convert stellar data

* Generate sector data

* Recalculate trade codes

The code has been drastically cleaned up, and should be easier to modify
(I've included a MAKEFILE) to simplify the compilation process.

TRTOOLS was written using Borland's Turbo Pascal v6.0, although it would
probably port to FPC-Pascal (an excellent freeware Pascal compiler) without
much fuss.  The Linux version will be written using FPC-Pascal.

As usual, the source code has been included, and the utilities are
completely free provided:

1/ any bugs, gripes or suggestions get passed on to me.
2/ if anyone does anything to the code, I'd appreciate having a look (I'll
prolly learn something).

I'll modify my Web pages to reflect the new version ASAP.  For now, TRTOOLS
can be found at:

http://www.iinet.net.au/~mickb/trtv0971.zip


Have fun,


Mick Bailey
mickb@opera.iinet.net.au
solomani@hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 18:31:32 +1200
From: Steve Rennell <wulf@sea.southern.co.nz>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

Dave Golden wrote:
> Discovery Channel or TLC did a piece on this recently. The studies
> (in Korea) did in fact show what was mentioned above: in the midst of
> combat (instead of a low-threat range situation), most armed combatants
> failed to fire a single round--and I think the 20% number above was a bit
> high. IIRC, no more than 15% of the troops in any engagement actually
> fired their weapons. Not aimed or hit targets--fired.
> 
>  The "culprit" was traced to the fact that it's a fairly horrible
> decision to actually kill another human being, and that most people
> unconsciously froze when faced with it. 
 
I had heard about that study as well, A friend of mine 
doing a Masters in Strategic studies told me about it. He 
also told me that it had been fairly conclusively 
debunked, but I don't have any more details than that.

Steve

- ---
IMTU tc+ tm? tn-- t4 to(CORPS)+ ru+ ge 3i- c+ au+ 
st? ls+ pi+ ta-- he+ va++ dr+ so zh- vi da--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 17:54:56 +1200
From: Steve Rennell <wulf@sea.southern.co.nz>
Subject: Hit chances

> Kristian Miller wrote:
> > Other statistics support the 15% guaranteed miss (or actually a higher
> > miss rate.)  In WW II it took some 200+ rounds of ammunition to cause
> > one casualty in infantry combat.  Even considering suppression fire
> > that's pretty bad.
 
Bloo replied in part
> I think it was 1,000 rounds/casualty in VietNam.

By looking on the web (the web is your friend) I found the 
following URL
http://www.erols.com/twool/sniper1.htm

From which I'll quote a few lines.
[big snip]

Statistics from past wars suggest that this probability 
figure may be optimistic. In Would War II, the United 
States and its allies expended 25,000 rounds of 
ammunition to kill a single enemy soldier. In the Korean 
War, the ammunition expenditure had increased four-fold 
to 100,000 rounds per soldier; in the Vietnam War, that 
figure had doubled to 200,000 rounds of ammunition for 
the death of a single enemy soldier. The risk to 
noncombatants is apparent.  

In contrast, United States Army and Marine Corps 
snipers in the Vietnam War expended 1.3 rounds of 
ammunition for each claimed and verified kill, at an 
average range of six hundred yards, or almost twice the 
three hundred meters cited above for combat 
engagements by the average soldier. Some verified kills 
were at ranges in excess of 1000  
yards. 

What I want from a system is the tendency of people to 
spray and pray (most of those rounds would probably 
have been fired at nothing) with it's commensurate low hit 
probabilities, and the ability of snipers to hit people at 
600 yards 60-70% of the time.

YGMV

Steve


- ---
IMTU tc+ tm? tn-- t4 to(CORPS)+ ru+ ge 3i- c+ au+ 
st? ls+ pi+ ta-- he+ va++ dr+ so zh- vi da--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 17:51:50
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Small scale colonization in Traveller

>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
>Subject: Re: 	Small scale colonization in Traveller
>
>Ian writes:
>>This article is aimed at the space in between - essentially, at creating a
>>set of rules to put flesh out the activities involved in a low-effort
>>colonisation, so that the colonisation effort and running the colony
>>afterwards can be the focus of a roleplaying campaign.
>
>Have you considered tying this more closely to _World Builder's Handbook?_
>I think WBH had a lot of good ideas, but lacked a few finishing touches.

For a start, I dont own WBH.

>
>
>>Equipment
>>
>>The second stage is the organisation of the colony expidition. This will
>>need four things - money, money, money and people. The base cost of a
>>colonisation effort aimed at establishing a colony for 1000 people is 4
>>megacredits, times one point [PE atmosphere infrastructure modifier] times
>>transport costs of one point [distance in parsecs from source world, times
>>two if TL9 or 10 transport is used], times the TL of the source world.
>
>At this level I would think that one could be more specific about transport
>costs. If you know the amount of equipment and the number of people to be
>moved, it should be possible to let the PCs chose the particular ship they
>want to hire and work out a schedule of transportation. That way you get an
>exact number of weeks the ship is hired and a weekly (or monthly) rate of
>hire for an exact transportation cost.

I wanted to retain simplicity, and compatibility with PE. If someone wants
to do this, fine.

>
>>This gets what is in effect a colony starter kit, comprising a 20 MW power
>>plant (usually fission), a multi-purpose ore refinery, a food production
>>facility, a hydrogen/oxygen cracker, a plastics manufacturing plant,
>>prefabricated shelters, a sick bay, a mechanical shop, an electronics shop
>>and several bulldozers. If the world has a less than benevolent atmosphere,
>>then the equipment includes air compressors, vacc suits, protective domes
>>and so on as appropriate.
>
>How much more effort would it be to come up with a shopping list of these
>items with appropiate costs? That way the PCs will be able to chose whether
>to spend the money on a spare bulldozer or the extra cash needed to make it
>a fusion plant, or whatever.

I came up with the number by working backwards from PE, then plugged in a
list of things you'd have in the colony ship.

Essentially, I didnt want to do a list of equipment at each TL. This could
be done, but I wanted it to keep it simple, and didnt want to do that level
of work.

>
>>While shopping, remember that this will be a colony of two TLs below the
>>world the equipment was bought on, at least at first. Equipment at higher
>>TLs than this will not be able to be repaired and may not be able to be
>>maintained locally.
>
>Rather, spare parts cannot be manufactured locally and engineers and
>mechanics becomes very important colonists. 

Fair enough

>
>>The basic equipment masses 500 displacement tons, times one point [PE
>>atmosphere infrastructure modifier] and masses 3500 tons.
>
>Point of information: The equipment carried by an Aslan ihatei ship is said
>to be 1.5 T per colonist.

OK

>
>>The base difficulty of finding 1000 eager colonists is an easy Recruiting
>>or a medium task for any of the Streetwise, Admin or Liason cluster,
>>involving spending 1 megacredit.
>
>How about working out some recruiting rules similar to the rules in
>_Mercenary_?

The Mercenary rules (which I no longer have) are about finding people in
small bunches. We are talking recruiting 1000 people ... I might actually
have made it too easy and cheap.

>
>>Constitutional Issues
>>
>>The next issue is organising the legal and government structure of the new
>>colony.
>
>Actually, that issue can affect the recruiting considerably. There would be
>quite a difference between, say, raising the venture capital by selling
>places in the colony to people and in having a few fat cats putting up all
>the money and recruiting suitable skilled personnel. In the first case you
>would have a democratic setup with everybody having an equal say in the
>running of the colony (and the skills the colonists had would not always be
>exactly what you needed. In the second place you would have some kind of
>oligarchy. A company providing the money would be yet a third situation
>because the colony would have to pay a dividend on the investment as they
>went along.

One of the things I was thinking of was a South American colony
accidentally picked up by the Fuggers in the 17th century - see, the
promoter went broke and owed them money, so they ended up diversifying by
accident.

>
>>If some known model is not being used, then drafting a workable set of laws
>>is a Difficult Legal task, taking as many months as the target law level.
>>Failure results in a law level (2d6-7) levels different from that planned
>>for. Spectacular failure results in a Law Level determined at random.
>
>How about a couple of generic sample constitutions to fit the most usual
>setups?

Sounds fair. Anyone wanna play Founding Fathers ?

>
>>At this point, the world is now settled, and gets a type E starport, a TL
>>of 2 below where the colony equipment was bought and a UWP and economic
>>extention as appropriate. The world has a Resources score calculated during
>>the Survey phase, and an Infrastructure score of three. Culture is
>>determined by the weighted average of the Culture scores of the worlds the
>>colonists came from, as modified by special recruiting efforts.
>
>I don't really think the macro-level economic extension of PE is suitable
>for a micro-level colony management game. Take Infrastructure, for example.
>This is actually a combination of roads, vehicles, production equipment,
>and production housing. What is the infrastructure of a colony with one
>settlement, no roads, four aging grav trucks, two Mobile Fabrication Units,
>and a lanthanum mine right next to the settlement? Actually, the effective
>infrastructure of a small colony can easily be quite high. It's only when
>the settlers spread out across the countryside and the grav trucks begin to
>break down that the infrastructure score begins to go down.

This is represented by losing a point of infrastructure when you gain a pop
code increase.

The level this is pitched at is a bit higher than 'micro' ... micro is a
'Seattle Farmers Collective' type game, where all the colonists are PCs,
and Fixing John-boy's Grav Truck is a life-or-death issue for the colony.

>
>>Population change occurs annually as per the rules in Pocket Empires. All
>>population growth above 3%, and half of all growth below 3%, represents
>>immigration, and immigrants bring KCr 1d6 apiece with them to the colony.
>
>A newly established colony may have a very high population growth provided
>it has restricted recruits to younger people. Take as an example a parent
>society with an annual population growth of 3%. Say its population has an
>average life expentancy of 80 years and that most people have their
>children before they are 40. Now, the 3% is actually a birth rate of 4.25%
>offset by a death rate of 1.25%. Then take a colony made up of people
>below the age of 40. If the colony has no serious dangers, the death rate
>is going to be almost nil for many years to come. At the same time 4.25% of
>the total population is actually 8.5% of the population below 40, so the
>colony growth rate could easily be 8.5% pa. Before any immigration. If you
>have an even more skewed population composition (perhaps 80% adults to only
>20% children), you can get even higher growth figures.

I thought of this, but then I thought that you should have to damp off
population growth (and increase civilian consumption later to deal with the
'baby boomers' reaching retirement age), so I just assumed that the initial
population is going to be normally distributed agewise.

>
>>The basic Traveller rate of interest is 3%,
>
>How do you arrive at that figure? The rate of interst on starship loans is
>somthing around 5.5%.

The starship loan figure minus a risk premium of 1.5 percent ... plus 3% is
damn close to the long run historical real rate of interest anyway.

>
>
>      Hans Rancke

>From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
>Subject: Small Scale Colonization
>

>Immigration has been covered by the other excellent posts on this
>subject - I'm not sure what percentages the ideas on mortality causes
>would indicate, but I think they make sense and should be taken into
>account.

I thought about this, and decided in the end it wasnt worth the complication.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #641
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Tuesday, July 7 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 642



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

[none]
Re: "Stranded on Arden"
Combat Stress (was Re: TNE|TW2K Combat)
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Re: Tw2k/TNE Combat
Re: comparing the versions
Fleets of the 3I, part 2
Re: fun weapons
Re: Fleets of the Imperium
Geonee News - 1116
Re: Fleets of the Imperium
Letter of Marque
Re: Letter of Marque 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 01:32:17 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: [none]

>>In Either Traveller's DIgest or MTJ, there is an article on hit locations,
>>which expands the attributes allowed damage to all except soc... and even
>>soc is viable...
>>
>Wil,
>
>IIRC it was a Space Gamer or Different Worlds article I have around here
>some where oopss it is "On Target" by Steve Cook, page 18 what issue well
>it does not show on my photocopy. It also has the effects of broken bones.
>But it may not be the article that you are referring to.
>
Nope, tweren't the article I was referring to. THe one I am referring to is
specifically for MT, and was in a T specific publication.

Traveller's Digest had a really good series of medical articles for
traveller, covering (amonst other things) psychological problems, bio/cyber
tech medical applications, including regeneration of limbs, low berths.

IMHO, TD (after release of MT) should be considered semi-canonical... the
rules _errata_ definitely was.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 00:23:49 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: "Stranded on Arden"

In mail you write:

>   The landing site (with facilities) is on the edge of a large body
> of water, presumably so that defective vessels that undershoot won't
> leave visible scars to upset future travellers :)

Heck, there are actually some sound reasons to site next to a large
body of water. Besides a supply of fuel, it also makes it possible to
do ballistic landing of some types of cargo. And given Traveller tech
levels, water landings for ground to orbit shuttles aren't a bad idea. 
Heck, some "frontier" type *ships* may be designed for water landings
and takeoff. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 05:15:07 -0600
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Combat Stress (was Re: TNE|TW2K Combat)

>
>Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 13:11:51 -0400
>From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
>Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
>
>Kristian Miller wrote:
>
>> Other statistics support the 15% guaranteed miss (or actually a higher
>> miss rate.)  In WW II it took some 200+ rounds of ammunition to cause
>> one casualty in infantry combat.  Even considering suppression fire
>> that's pretty bad.
>
>Does this take into account that at most infantry operations, it was
>estimatedthat only 20% were able to keep their cool enough to actually aim
their
>gun
>to hit another human?
>
>Some US Army General did a study and found this figure was true almost
>across the board, even for the Marines at Iwo Jima, and resulted in the
>more modern combat training, i.e., to shoot as a reflex, etc.
>

S.L.A. Marshall, _Men_Against_Fire_ - which most referees would do well to
read, as it's readily available (at least in the US).  Some researchers
have determined that Marshall's methods were not everything he claimed, but
no one has disputed his basic conclusions.  A more recent and comprehensive
treatment is _On_Killing_ (McDonald? I've loaned my copy out - scary book).

The "combat oriented" training had the twin results that (1) firing rates
went from an estimated 15-20% (ever fired their weapon during combat) in
WWII, to 50% in Korea, to as much as 90% in Vietnam, and (2) combat stress
and post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) casualties increased by about the
same amount.

Only about 2% of a normal population has the typical PC's ability to kill
at close range and not suffer for it mentally.  These "aggressive
psychopathic" personalities are not necessarily evil or bad - many police
officers fall into this category (sheepdogs vs. wolves), and that 2% are
virtually the only troops  that can avoid becoming stress casualties after
100 days in continuous combat.

One very possible explanation for the high miss rate in close combat:  the
individuals firing are *trying* to miss, but firing anyway to make it look
good.  _On_Killing_ goes into the statistics, but even in Napoleanic line
of battle units survived volley after volley in dense formations at ranges
where (in tests with period weapons) 60% of aimed shots hit a
formation-sized sheet of plywood.  Answer?  Most of the shots were probably
aimed just above the heads of the opposite line.  Modern skirmish combat,
with the isolation of the individual firer, makes this form of "combat
avoidance" even easier.

>I think it was 1,000 rounds/casualty in VietNam.
>
>Bloo

Don't forget:  the principle infantry weapon of WWII was still a
semi-automatic M1 rifle or carbine, while in Vietnam it was the full-auto
M16.  Moreover, the tactical employment of squad weapons had changed
between the wars, as a result both of S.L.A. Marshall's studies and the
specific circumstances of jungle warfare.  In WWII, marksmanship was the
goal (one shot, one hit), in Vietnam it was firepower (hose them down with
lead).

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 04:26:51 PDT
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
After a number of diagreements about how the combat modifers in TNE 
should work, I took two of my gamers out shooting twice on a three-day 
weekend, and focused on nice calm Weaver-stance shooting.  Then, on the 
third day (last Memorial Day), I had them try shooting at an outdoor 
range, from non-stable positions, etc.  I also had them shoot 
one-handed.  The dropoff in accuracy was amazing; I had people who were 
hitting center-mass 95% of the time in the range barely able to make 25% 
at  8 yards.

In the month since then, I have gotten a lot less argument over some of 
the combat die roll modifiers I insist on.

I will admit that I only consider a 20 to be an auto-miss, though...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Makes you respect the gun fighters of the old west even more when you 
think about facing someone down, drawing and shooting in an instant.  
"The Outlaw Josey Wales" must be a rare individual indeed.  

OBTrav:  Have any of you had your players' characters land on a lawless 
world where shootouts are the rule?  Picture old west, sun standing high 
over head...  No shadows...  Two hombres facing each other...  They draw 
and in a flash of light, one falls with a tiny little laser hole in 
between his eyes....



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 08:55:26 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat

Greg Smith wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Makes you respect the gun fighters of the old west even more when you 
think about facing someone down, drawing and shooting in an instant.  
"The Outlaw Josey Wales" must be a rare individual indeed.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Except that the usual "Wild West Showdown" involved firing quick while
dodging, more like a quick firefight than a duel. Two guys
on Main Street at high noon, cooly facing each other 'till someone
shouted "draw" was pretty much a newspaperman's creation.

Most of the people killed by famous gunfighters were ambushed - and
most of the famous gunfighters were killed the same way.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 01:11:35 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

At 20:41 6/07/98 -0700, Kristian Miller wrote:
>I don't recall the Challenge article but I have read the San Diego PD
>study in its entirety.  It has been published as a book.  It had some
>interesting data.  Some that I recall:
>
>9mm has a much higher penetration than .45.
>.45 does have a higher knockout rate than 9mm.
>The report settled on .41 Magnum as the best police round (interesting.)

Interesting - the FBI's stats clearly show that there is no significant
difference in knockdown between .38 special (with modern ammo), 9mm and
.45ACP assuming they're all firing bullets of similar construction. They
also show that the best knockdown is achieved by the .357 magnum, followed
by the .44 magnum (its rounds are so powerful that a fair bit the their
energy is wasted in over penetration).

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 01:18:40 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Tw2k/TNE Combat

At 02:30 7/07/98 EDT, TravelrTNE wrote:

>I've been hearing of alot of  T2K rules that should be in TNE, methinks.  Can
>anyone here (Loren maybe?) say why they weren't?  The quick kill rule and
>specialization for one both sound like real good ones (as do controlled
>bursts)...

The quick-kill rule is, but in a different form. The TW2K rule was for the
damage value on a D10, and vs a PC gave an automatic serious wound (I
think). It only applied for aimed chest or head shots. The TNE rule applies
to all chest/head hits, but on a D@0 for double damage.

I suspect that the specialisation rules were left out for game balance
considerations.

BTW who would one need to get permission from if one wished to put all
these little TW2K rules up on a web page for the TNEer's who don't have TW2K?

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 09:35:51 -0700
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: comparing the versions

Steve Rennell <wulf@sea.southern.co.nz> types out:
>I wasn't talking about fatalities, I was talking about 
>effective stops. From the Cop records study I read in 
>some gun magazine (I think it's available on the web, but 
>I'm not sure where) the average 9mm was achieving a 1 
>shot stop (the bad guy could not return any more fire, nor 
>run anywhere) counting only hits to the torso, was about 
>50-60% depending on the type of round used. This was 
>more or less the same as the Colt .45 ACP. (for every 
>story about a 9mm fail-to-stop, there's another one for 
>.45's)

    For the 9mm to be an effective 'man-stopper' it has to be a hollowpoint
round.  Otherwise you get too much over penatration, and most of the
round's energy exits out the back of the target.
    The .45 is effective because it's very efficent at transferring all of
it's energy to the target.
    Reason:  9mm, smaller but faster.  .45 larger and slower (subsonic).
    Of course this a large hand waving sweeping generalization, but is
mostly true.

>On the subject of fatalities though, it's not unknown for 
>.22 pistols to achieve instant kills with chest shots. It's 
>not common, but it happens. T2K doesn't address this 
>very well either.
     This is a serious case of gun control.  You know, being able to hit
your target with the first round.  One .22 hollow point round to the heart
is more effective than 2-3 9mm rounds to the torso that miss the heart and
major blood vessels.

>There is talk that assassins sometimes use .22 pistols 
>because they can get in, get a shot in, and leave, and 
>they are less likely to be spotted because the signature 
>is so low. 

     Ya, but they don't just use a single round.  They use .22 short
semi-autopistols with a sound suppressor.  The technique is called
'zippering.'  You fire 5 or 6 shots, starting at the groin and working your
way up to the head.  Each one of those shots may not be fatal, but add all
of them together, and you have a different story.  Because of the low
recoil, a trained shooter and pop off those half dozen rounds quickly and
put all five in a torso sized target at 3 meter ranges.

FYI, I current run TNE rules.  I use d10s for damage and make use of quick
kill & knockdown rules.  I also use the 'npc' stats for cannon fodder, so
they go down pretty damn quick (i.e. less points, what the Hell, they're
Cannon Fodder).



- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
      Smith&Wesson -- The Ultimate "Point & Click" User interface.
                 http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 07 Jul 1998 11:15 EDT
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Fleets of the 3I, part 2

Thanks to William, Kurt, and Edward, I have a general picture
of the Imperial naval forces.  Correct me where I err.

A "Numbered Fleet" has:

                  1 BatRon                      2-5 mt
                  1 CruRon                      ?
                  1 DesRon                      ?
                  1 ScoutRon                    ?
                  2 AuxRon                      ?
                  1 TankRon                     ?
                  2 AssaultRon                  ?
                                               ------
                                               15-20 mt?

A subsector has a "Numbered Fleet" plus 
a "Reserve Fleet".
                                               30-40 mt

A "Named Fleet", then, has all Numbered and 
Reserve fleets for an entire sector.  In 
addition, there are some extra numbered fleets
and special fleets, but I'll absorb them here,
because many sectors are only partially
Imperial (plus sectors like Corridor have 
some Rift in them).
                                              270-360 mt

For my next trick, I'll say the 3I has about
16 sectors, and guesstimate naval tonnage.
                                               5000 mt

5 billion tons.

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 12:11:22 -0700
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: fun weapons

Leonard Erickson  types:
>Frankly, I expect that the optimal shape will be a spheroid or oviod of
>some sort. Small blisters for secondary weapons, and the main weapon is
>fixed, but the tank can spin about any axis rapidly *while moving*, and
>the shape would prevent airflow problems. 

   The oviod shape is what Greg Porter had for TL 15 battle dress in T4.
(Emperor's Arsenal).



- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for 
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked" 
                 http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 19:39:20 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Fleets of the Imperium

Robert Eaglestone asks:

>How many 'fleets' were in the 3rd Imperium?
>Or, perhaps a better question is: what is the average density
>of fleets per sector in the 3I?

Slightly over 16. Most subsectors have one fleet each. A few (in Corridor
and in Core) had more.
 
>Looks like, during the 5FW, the Spinward Marches had, ummmm,
>perhaps 6 or 7 fleets?  Or were there more, but some were lurking?  

Data gathered from the FFW game is incomplete in order to make a playable
game.

>And what about "reserve fleets"?

Each subsector has a reserve fleet. Those subsectors with more than one
regular fleet may or may not have extra reserve fleets too.
 
>Besides those, I know of the Corridor fleet, a fleet around
>Antares, a fleet just interior to Antares, a Core fleet,
>probably more than one fleet along the Solomani border, plus
>perhaps another couple fleets.
> 
>So in the civilized sectors is there perhaps only 1 fleet
>per sector, and on the frontier sectors there are several?

The <Sector Name> Fleet is a so-called named fleet which consists of all
regular fleets in the sector. Occasionally special named fleets are
created for special purposes, but most named fleets are just an
administrative umbrella with few ships of its own.

>Also I'd like your opinions on what the average tonnage of a fleet might
>be.  I think it's in the range of 1 to 5 mt. Can anyone hazard a better
>guess or should I just take a middle path and say 3 mt?

Fleets differ in size. It would depend on the number and composition of
its component squadrons. A TCr squadron would be about 1.2 megatons.

This is a repost of an analysis I posted some months ago. I hope you will
find it useful.


AN ANALYSIS OF THE IMPERIAL NAVY IN THE CLASSIC ERA
===================================================

Main sources: _Fighting Ships_, _Spinward Marches Campaign_ and _Rebellion_.

NUMBER AND TYPE OF SHIPS

_Rebellion_ p. 27 states that each sector of the Imperium theoretically has a
group of fleets numbering about 1000 ships. This number includes combat vessels
such as cruisers, carriers, battleships, and _some_ escorts (emphasis mine).
It does not include auxiliaries, support ships, and scouts.

The first ambiguity lies in just what kinds of escorts are included in the 1000
ship figure and what kinds are not. Are the 5,000 T _Sloan_ class escorts so
big that they are counted, or is there a class of escorts smaller than a
light cruiser (30,000 T ships), but bigger than Sloans?

One could postulate an escort class of around 10-20,000 T, big enough to mount
a spinal weapon, but too light to be classed as even a light cruiser. A bit
inelegant, especially since FS states that escorts are ships of up to 5000 T
and that the presence of a spinal mount is what distinguishes a cruiser, but
OTOH, are there really no ships in the 5,000-20,000 T range? And this way we
can define 'combat vessels' as ships with spinal mounts and auxiliaries as
ships without. 

Perhaps escorts in BatRons and CruRons are not counted while escorts organized
into squadrons of their own (EscRons? ;-) are?

The simplest solution is propably to ignore the ',and some escorts' part and
just consider the presence of a spinal mount the criteria for being part of
the 1000 ship figure.

The second ambiguity is whether battleriders are included in the figure or
not. I would have preferred that they were not, but the one detailed squadron
I know of (the 154th Battle Rider Squadron described in SMC) clearly implies
that they are.
 
In the following for ease of reference I'm going to use the word 'armada'
about the sector fleets and reserve the word 'fleet' for the sub-sector-sized
fleets that the armadas are composed of. Also 'combat vessels' for the ships
included in the 1000 ship figure and 'auxiliaries' for all the ships that
isn't.

If the 1000 ships are for a sector with a full sixteen sub-sectors, then the
average fleet has 1000/16 = 62.5 ships. Since there are 320 regular fleets in
the Imperium, the total of combat ships for the Imperium would be around
20,000.

Further down it is stated that a regular fleet has between 2 and 10 squadrons
amounting to a total of between 50 and 200 ships. This would appear to average
out to 125 ships per fleet with an average of 6 squadrons per fleet and 21
ships per squadron.

Possibly this means that the squadrons are combat vessels _plus_ escorts and 
that the 125 ship figure includes auxiliaries. This would give us a navy of
20,000 combat vessels and a like number of auxiliaries.

However, FS states that CruRons are generally of 4 to 8 ships and the examples
in it implies that 8 ship BatRons are the norm. (Also, I seem to remember
squadrons of non-combat vessels mentioned somewhere, but I can't recall the
references).

Possibly the 2-squadron fleets and 25-ship squadrons are rare and almost all
fleets have 8-10 squadrons with almost all squadrons running to between 8 and
20 ships (half combat vessels and half escorts). With an average of about 9
squadrons per fleet and 14 ships per squadron we'll get about 20,000 combat
vessels and the same number of escorts. This still leave the pure auxiliary
squadrons like tanker squadrons and patrol squadrons (PatRons ;-) unaccounted
for, but it's a start.

SIZE AND COST OF A SQUADRON

The 154th Battle Squadron detailed in SMC consists of:

  1 300,000 T _Lurenti_ Class Carrier @ MCr23,056         =  23,056
  7 20,000 T _Nolikian_ Class Battle Riders @ MCr9,268.25 =  64,878
200 50 T _Sylean_ Class Heavy Fighters @ MCr105.33        =  21,066
  7 5,000 T _Sloan_ Class Escorts @ MCr3,334.5            =  23,342 
  
A total of MCr132,342 of which MCr109,000 goes to the combat vessels and the
remaining 17.6% goes to the escorts.

Obviously this must be one of the cheapest squadrons in the navy. If all the
20,000 combat ships cost around MCr19,000 (including the cost of its pendant
auxiliary) then the total cost of the regular Imperial navy would be TCr380.
This would represent 15% of the Imperium's total military investment, which
would make the whole shebang cost TCr2,533. Annual maintenance would run to
TCr254. Divided by the 15 trillion inhabitants of the Imperium that would be
Cr17 per man.

If we assume that the ships in FS constitutes a representative sample, then
we see that the average cruiser/carrier is of 52,714 T and costs MCr31,193.
If we reduce that to 50,000 T and add the cost of a 5,000 T escort apiece,
the average cruiser works out at roughly MCr33,000. The three battleships
average 300,000 T and costs MCr206,106 apiece, which with the escort and a
little rounding comes to MCr210,000.

Unfortunately, that just isn't enough. Even if we assume that ALL the combat
ships are battleships, it still only amounts to a total cost of TCr4,200,
which works out at a military budget of Cr187 per inhabitant of the Imperium.
If we assume a ratio of battleships to cruisers similar to the one in FS
(3:7), the the cost falls to TCr1723, or Cr77 per inhabitant.

Of course, we might say that we still haven't accounted for most of the
auxiliary ships yet. We've included one 5,000 T escort for each combat ship,
but what about the couriers, destroyers, smaller escorts, transports and
tankers that appear in FS and elsewhere? For example, I happen to believe that
a navy would have a massive number of couriers, say 20 per fleet, but even
6400 couriers only amount to another 1.6 TCr. The same would apply to
destroyers and the like -- you need a huge number of them to affect the budget
noticeably. Some of the other auxiliaries like tankers would cost more
individually -- the milion T _Gorodish_ class fleet tenders mentioned in FS
might run to MCr400,000 apiece, but how many of those are the average fleet
likely to have? One? Two? OK, that's another 256 TCr, which is a help, but it
still leaves a long way to go. Remember that every credit we increase the
budget with represents another 3000 destroyers (just to pick an example), and
we know from the recent pirate debate that the Imperium apparently lack the
small ships to police all its member worlds adequately. So we may push the
budget up to Cr85/man by use of the smaller fry, but not much more than that.

There are two more possibilities that I can see. One is that battleriders are
NOT, after all, included in the 1000 ship figure. If a carrier and half a
dozen dreadnaught-sized battleriders counted as one ship instead of 6, then
we could get some really expensive ships. Unfortunately battleriders tend to
be cruiser-sized. The carrier needed to carry 6 200,000 T battleriders would
have to be about 2-2.5 million tons and the maximum size of a ship in CT is
1 million. A 1 million T carrier would only amount to about twice the cost
of the average battleship (MCr430) and according to FS the 500,000 T
_Tigress_ class dreadnaught is the largest ship in the Spinward Marches. A
500,000 T carrier would cost about the same as an average dreadnaught, which
leaves us back where we started.

The other possibility is that a large number of ships are laid up in
ordinary. That would require that part of the annual budget was used to
maintain these inactive ships, which would make the active part of the navy
a correspondingly smaller share. If we assume that the wartime budget of the
Imperium is 1.5 times the peacetime budget (a guesstimate based on the
various government multipliers in TCS) and that there would be enough ships
in ordinary to operate on the wartime budget, then there would be about one
ship in ordinary for each two active ships and about 6% of the budget would
be spent on maintaning them. If instead we assume that peacetime spending is
the 3% of GNP that _Striker_ gives and wartime spending would be 15% of GNP
then the Imperium could have EIGHT ships in ordinary for each active ship and
spend 45% of its peacetime budget on maintaining them. That would push the
military spending up to about Cr150/citizen. Whether you like the idea of an
Imperial reserve fleet of 160,000 combat vessels is another matter. (There is
some small support for the notion in the fact that acording to _Arrival
Vengeance_ ships are still being reactivated in 1123, six years after the
beginning of the Rebellion, with at least two more years to go before they
are finished. OTOH it requires an implausibly long view to maintain reserves
that will take 8 years to activate...)

And in the end, even with the best will in the world it appears that the 
Imperial navy is only about half the size that it should be (Cr150 would be
1.5% of the GNP and we were calculating with 3%).

To those who would suggest that perhaps the Imperium feels so secure that it
is using even less than the standard 3% peacetime spending I'd like to point
to the Solomani, Zhodani, and K'Kree and suggest that it is rather implausible
that the Imperium would feel so secure.

I'd like to finish off by re-emphasizing that all those ships, the 20,000 
combat vessels, the 20,000 big escorts and the unspecified number of lesser
ships only represent 15% of the Cr150. Another 15% goes to the subsector
fleets and the remaining 70% goes to planetary defenses, though admittedly
6-40% of that (4.2-28% of the total) would go to armies.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 19:48:15 +0000
From: "Carlos Alos-Ferrer" <Carlos.Alos-Ferrer@univie.ac.at>
Subject: Geonee News - 1116

A little piece of background, under development for the Geonee 
Sourcebook... comments welcome.

Carlos Alos-Ferrer
=============================================

Shiwonee/Shiwonee (Massilia 1430), 272-1116

	Emperor Strephon was killed by Archduke Dulinor or Iilelish on
 136-1116. Empress Iolanthe, Grand Princess Iphegenia, and the Aslan
 Yerlyaruiwo Ambassador are also reported dead. Archduke Dulinor has
 claimed the imperial throne by the right of Assasination, but most
 sources consider Prince Varian to be the immediate heir. Archduke
 Dulinor apparently fled Capital after the assasination
	Duke Darnaaga Neowashee, present in Capital at the time of the 
assasination, has sent a message to Shiwonee encouraging the Geonee 
worlds to remain calm and loyal.

 Notes: The arrival of the news of the assasination to Shiwonee at
 272-1116 assumes that the three "loose ends" of the X-boat network at
 Massilia B (Arar, Gasha, and Sargashad) are actually connected
 through two jumps (stopping at some intermediate world), at least for
 very important news like this. Ordinary news which do not use this
 shortcut would be delayed three more weeks. Anyway, there is a J-6
 route which halves the time to 70 days instead of 140.

Shiwonee/Shiwonee (Massilia 1430), 277-1116

	Emperor Strephon, Empress Iolanthe, Grand Princess Iphegenia, and
 Prince Varian were buried on Capital on 136 and 137-1116. Prince
 Varian was found dead on 136-1116. Varian's brother, Prince Lucan,
 has ascended the throne in a private ceremony.
	 Several human nobles have opposed the ascension of Emperor Lucan, 
claiming that it needs to be confirmed by the Moot. Emperor Lucan has 
exercised the Imperial right to dissolve the Moot for one year.

Shiwonee/Shiwonee (Massilia 1430), 290-1116

	Unrest in Capital continued at 210-1116 after the assasination of
Emperor Strephon by Archduke Dulinor and the oposition of human
elements of the Moot to its succession by Emperor Lucan
	 A message from Duke Neowashee arrived today in Shiwonee with one of 
his personal Jump-6 couriers, calling on all citizens of the Duchy, 
regardless of race, to remain calm and prepare themselves to support 
the Imperial authorities against the rebels led by assasin Dulinor 
and any other uncontrolled elements, if necessary. The duke declared 
that even his personal guard got involved in fightings at Capital, 
and announced his arrival in Shiwonee shortly after the message.

Shiwonee/Shiwonee (Massilia 1430), 314-1116

	Representatives of the Geonee worlds have issued a joint communicate
 today in Shiwonee, firmly establishing the unbreakable loyalty of
 their worlds to the Imperium and its authority, clearly represented
 by the Duchy of Shiwonee.
	Naval bases at Hiponee and Shiwonee, as well as the Colonial and 
Reserve squadrons, are now under special alert due to the possibility 
of attacks by subversive elements. The Scout base at Prindee, under 
command of Imperial Baron Mazun Smythe, has refused to place his 
ships under Naval authority.

Shiwonee/Shiwonee (Massilia 1430), 332-1116

	Duke Darnaaga Neowashee arrived today in Shiwonee, and held a press
 conference immediately. The Duke declared the support of the Duchy to
 Emperor Lucan and warned the worlds of the Duchy about the fact that
 several noble states in Massilia sector have alligned themselves with
 the criminal elements that seek the destruction of the Imperium.
	 "We are the sons of the Ancients, and ours is the responsibility to 
guard civilization. We belong to a Duchy, and we belong to the 
Imperium. In the name of the emperor, we will be the guardians of 
Massilia sector, and beyond." - said the Duke.

Prindee/Shiwonee (Massilia 1330), 352-1116

	 Naval elements assaulted today the Scout base at Prindee, after the
 Scout Commander Baron Smythe refused the direct order of Duke
 Neowashee to submit to Naval command. Part of the Scout personnel
 rebelled against their command, facilitating the naval takeover.
	 Several scout starships, mainly under 400 dt, managed to escape and
 jumped out-system. Baron Smythe has been captured.
Until the Scout Service sector authorities designate a new commander,
the scout base has been placed under direct navy supervision.
 Informed sources estimated over one thousand cassualties in the
 operation. At least ten scout ships were damaged, and three of them
 were utterly destroyed. No naval ships were significatively damaged.
	 Witnesses of the surface assault report that large numbers of
 Llyrnian marines were involved.
	 Several hundreds of scout personnel have been arrested, although 
part of them have been authorized to remain a week at the base for 
Chirper Recovery. A marine garrison has been stationed to guard the 
prisoners.

 Note: Of course, Chirper Recovery is a standard after-battle
 courtesy. Chirpers tend to flee away when a place is assaulted, but
 they usually come back after a few days looking for their masters. If
 a married Geonee prisoner were to be taken off-world immediately,
 this will cause the loss of his Chirper, which implies immediate
 divorce.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 11:28:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Fleets of the Imperium

Hans Rancke-Madsen writes:
> And in the end, even with the best will in the world it appears that the 
> Imperial navy is only about half the size that it should be (Cr150 would be
> 1.5% of the GNP and we were calculating with 3%).

Hm...I think your estimate of GNP is off.  Remember, money for imperial
shipbuilding should be Imperial (TL 15 starport A) credits.  A significant
portion of the population of the Imperium is lower TL or starport, and thus
would contribute less per person.  Depending on exactly how you convert local
credits to imperial credits, you probably want an actual figure of 100-200
credits per person.  Also, is that 3% of GNP for the _fleet_, or is it for all
imperial services?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 17:50:10 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Letter of Marque

Has anyone yet received thier copy of this yet?  The last thing I heard on it
was it was going out last week...was their an additional update I didn't see?

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 18:12:55 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Letter of Marque 

> Has anyone yet received thier copy of this yet?  The last thing I heard on it
> was it was going out last week...was their an additional update I didn't see?

Phil had some last minute things to straighten out at the printers, and it 
wasn't going to be back in time for him to mail it out last week.  He was due 
back home yesterday, & was also supposed to mail them out then.

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #642
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Wednesday, July 8 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 643



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Re:  Fleets of the Imperium
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Re: Hit chances
Re: Combat Stress (was Re: TNE|TW2K Combat)
Letter of Marque - FINISHED!
Re: Fleets of the Imperium
Armed Merchants
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Squadron Concepts (was re: Imperial Fleets)
Re: Hit chances
Re: 
Re: Which issue?
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Re: Trav Fig Substitutes
Re: Big Assets! (was TNE|TW2K Combat)
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Re: Big Assets! (was TNE|TW2K Combat)
Marshalls theories

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 18:44:17 -0700
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

TravelrTNE@aol.com writes:
>> Unfortunately my anecdotal's were of persons with a little bit better
>> training like SWAT, or even better SEALS, SAS, or Mil Spec snipers(L.H.
>> Oswald for one). Under the TNE systems they will missed 20% of the time,
>> under all conditions and situations.
>You're talking awesome and *rare* shooters.  They should get a special
>dispensation from the rules, I think.  Either adopt Ruperts 20 or  the T2k
>specilization maybe?, I think. 

    Big time awesome and rare shooters.  Remember that to get it's 'hit the
target with the first shot no matter what the conditions' ability, SEAL
Team Six had a bigger ammo budget than the entire US Marine Corps.

    I'd argue the listing of Lee Harvey Oswald.  According to his Marine
records, he was fair shot at best.  
Either he got real lucky or start looking toward the grassy knoll... :-)


- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of a free 
state, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be 
infringed.  -- http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 10:08:30 -0700
From: Marie Seeman <s367886@student.uq.edu.au>
Subject: Re:  Fleets of the Imperium

Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
 Are the 5,000 T _Sloan_ class escorts so
> big that they are counted, or is there a class of escorts smaller than a
> light cruiser (30,000 T ships), but bigger than Sloans?
> 
> One could postulate an escort class of around 10-20,000 T, big enough to mount
> a spinal weapon, but too light to be classed as even a light cruiser. A bit
> inelegant, especially since FS states that escorts are ships of up to 5000 T
> and that the presence of a spinal mount is what distinguishes a cruiser, but
> OTOH, are there really no ships in the 5,000-20,000 T range? And this way we
> can define 'combat vessels' as ships with spinal mounts and auxiliaries as
> ships without.
> 

I would say that there are cruisers smaller than 30,000 tons, but
they're obselete!  The Rebellion Sourcebook (MT) included examples of
TL-11 Vargr cruisers, and "various others" (I don't have my books on
hand) in the 10,000-30,000 ton range.  The Reserve Fleets might have
things like this still around, but most would be in planetary fleets (at
least if planetary navies that have jump-capable ships - it's implied
somewhere that they don't, but I suspect that's a guideline, or a
doctrine, rather than a rule).

  "Newly" integrated worlds/subsectors are likely to have reserve fleets
composed of their old independent naval ships, rather than Imperial
handmedowns, (particularly in T4 type early settings).  Of course, the
Imperium hasn't been doing much expanding in the last few centuries, so
such non-standard fleets are likely to be fairly rare.

The 5,000-30,000 ton "gap" is a result of the old kinds of ships that
filled this range (cruisers) becoming larger, and the ships below this
(destroyers and other escorts) staying the same size.  There may be "big
escorts", but probably not many.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 17:57:53 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

At 06:31 pm 7/7/98 +1200, you wrote:
>Dave Golden wrote:
>> Discovery Channel or TLC did a piece on this recently. The studies
>> (in Korea) did in fact show what was mentioned above: in the midst
of
>> 
>>  The "culprit" was traced to the fact that it's a fairly horrible
>> decision to actually kill another human being, and that most
people
>> unconsciously froze when faced with it. 
> 
>I had heard about that study as well, A friend of mine 
>doing a Masters in Strategic studies told me about it. He 
>also told me that it had been fairly conclusively 
>debunked, but I don't have any more details than that.

	The show did mention several attempts to play down the study ...
primarily on the grounds that "our glorious jarheads aren't cowards!"
 But that wasn't the issue. And if it was debunked, why did combat
training change afterwards? And why did similar followup studies show
an increase?
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 18:04:12 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Hit chances

At 05:54 pm 7/7/98 +1200, you wrote:
>In contrast, United States Army and Marine Corps 
>snipers in the Vietnam War expended 1.3 rounds of 
>ammunition for each claimed and verified kill, at an 
>average range of six hundred yards, or almost twice the 
>three hundred meters cited above for combat 
>engagements by the average soldier. Some verified kills 
>were at ranges in excess of 1000  
>yards. 

	A perfect example of the difference between your average fighter in
a firefight and someone who's (a) already come to grips with killing,
(b) chosen his position, and (c) probably isn't in the middle of a
firefight.

	An extreme example of this is the "duel" described by on of USMC's
premiere snipers, Gunny (?) Sergeant Carlos Hathcock. He wound up
trying to hunt down a VC sniper who was trying to get him. After
several false attempts, Sgt Hathcock finally saw a glint of light,
took a chance (he couldn't fully see the target), and fired.

	When he and his spotter got there, they discovered his bullet had
gone in the front of the enemy's scope, out the back, and into his
eye. In other words, the enemy sniper was a hair's-breadth away from
shooting at him.

>What I want from a system is the tendency of people to 
>spray and pray (most of those rounds would probably 
>have been fired at nothing) with it's commensurate low hit 
>probabilities, and the ability of snipers to hit people at 
>600 yards 60-70% of the time.

	More generally, I want a system that takes into account the
situation. A firefight, whether in a garage, engineroom, or jungle,
should result in low hit rates. A carefully planned, "low-stress"
shot under conditions similar to a firing range, should result in
higher rates.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 18:06:39 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Combat Stress (was Re: TNE|TW2K Combat)

At 05:15 am 7/7/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Don't forget:  the principle infantry weapon of WWII was still a
>semi-automatic M1 rifle or carbine, while in Vietnam it was the
full-auto
>M16.  Moreover, the tactical employment of squad weapons had changed
>between the wars, as a result both of S.L.A. Marshall's studies and
the
>specific circumstances of jungle warfare.  In WWII, marksmanship was
the
>goal (one shot, one hit), in Vietnam it was firepower (hose them
down with
>lead).

	In fact, Discovery channel had another show on firearms development.
At one time, faced with a competition between a magazine-fed
(==quickly reloaded), and non-magazine fed rifle, both of which could
hold six rounds before needing reloading, the United States Army
*deliberately* chose the one which took longer. The idea back then
was force the soldier to make each shot count.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 17:51:29 -0700
From: Sanders <timmon@primenet.com>
Subject: Letter of Marque - FINISHED!

Ok everyone - "Letter of Marque" mailed this affternoon. They were posted
as either US Domestic Book mail or as foreign Surface Book mail. For those
in the US, you should see your copies in the next week, or two at the most.
For everyone else - please be patient - judging from past experience, it
will take anywhere from two weeks up to eight weeks for them to arrive.

For those who have asked:

98 of the 150 copies produced  were Autographed.
52 were of course not autographed.
I actually sold 119 copies.
20 copies went to Marc...so if you missed out....
10 copies were given away and/or traded for services rendered.
I kept 1 copy for myself.

All told, I broke even on this project (the printing cost more than
estimated, the mailing less).

There was only one snafu (besides the printing delays) - the binder trashed
7 copies, and didn't tell the printer...I found out today while stuffing
the final mailers, was able to "fix" it, and Marc should get the 7 copies
missing from his 20 by next week. 

I want to thank everyone on the TML for their support  - you are the ones
who made this possible.

For all those who asked - Yes, I bought all the remaining unpublished
Traveller material that Andrew Keith had. As for Bill Keith - you'd have to
ask him, as I have no idea if he has any manuscripts squirrled away.

Let me just say that if all goes well, the other four manuscripts should be
'out' in the next 2 years. Bryan Borich should be able to keep you up to
speed as things progress.

Ok, I'm outta here :)

Slan Agat,
Paul Sanders

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 17:44:11 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Fleets of the Imperium

At 07:39 PM 7/7/98 +0200, you wrote:

>However, FS states that CruRons are generally of 4 to 8 ships and the
examples
>in it implies that 8 ship BatRons are the norm. (Also, I seem to remember
>squadrons of non-combat vessels mentioned somewhere, but I can't recall the
>references).

IMTU, BatRons consist of two Battleships and their associated cruisers,
escorts, etc.  A FFS2 200kton BB is a very expensive and deadly item,
grouping them into eight-ship squadrons is a strategic mistake.

- --

Douglas Berry
dberry@hooked.net
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry
Domo Arigato, Mr Roboto...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 20:43:13 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Armed Merchants

Just pondering the reason so many peaceful merchant ships in the
Third Imperium have 6Mcr+, a couple tons of precious hull space,
and a couple of crew positions devoted to weaponry. Some ideas I
came up with:

Peaceful uses: There's a PC game called "Elite" where one of the
weapons you can mount on your ship is a mining laser. Perhaps
that Pulse Laser in the turret is intended for salvage, mining, and
anti-(small) asteroid work? The ship master might just figure that
paying the little bit extra to make it combat-capable was worthwhile.
Missile Racks can hold drones, probes, all kinds of neat things
besides explosive missiles. This would be more for science vessels
and scout ships than merchants, unless the Free Trader captain 
picked one up for a research charter. And once she has it, the
captain may decide that laying in a missile or two for self-defense
just makes sense.
Sandcasters - I don't know enough about them to figure out peaceable
uses for them, but they're cheap and defensive only, so you might
see them even if the only thing they're good for is keeping lasers away.
Meson guns, bay weapons, energy weps and particle beams are for
military ships, so we don't have to worry about them (The Infamous
Science Ship of Doom notwithstanding).

Insurance: It's not reflected in the rules, but it might be that an armed
merchant pays a smaller insurance premium. Just like anti-lock
brakes and seat belts in an automobile affect car insurance, there
would probably be a whole list of ways a shipmaster could reduce his
insurance payment - Anti-Hijack software, defensive weaponry,
up-to-date Crew Certifications, etc. would cost money but might save
money. We'd need insurance rules for this to be useful. As it is, the only
thing we see in this vein is the requirement that your ship be armed
before you can sign up for a mail contract.

Naval Auxiliary: Was the ship recently called up to military service?
All the standard designs allow for weaponry to be installed - did the
Imperial government subsidize the designs, on the condition that they
be capable of conversion to militarized status? 
If the local Navy commander never has enough starport capacity, he
might just leave the weapons in place when he releases the ship back
into civilian service (with appropriate loans for the crew to buy the
military surplus hardware, of course). That way he can save his starport
for patching warships together again next time the balloon goes up,
all the naval auxiliaries will already have their weapons. The naval
commander may not think it a big deal that a lot of 200-600tn civilian
ships have obsolete military weaponry on them - after all, they're no
threat to his 5000tn Destroyers.

Self-Defense: What does a merchant vessel have to protect itself from?
Alien Corsairs. Spacefaring barbarians (if a trader beyond the frontier).
Sudden local conflicts flaring up - if I'm in starport on a balkanized
world in the Imperium, my triple laser turret may be able to get me
and mine off-planet if all I'm facing are TL7-8 aerospace fighters.
What if a "local conflict" between two Imperial worlds starts to involve
starmercs and commerce raiding? If a patrol cruiser knows I have
a triple missile rack, he may go chase that freighter over there instead.
And who knows...somewhere in the murky reaches of space, that
impossibility of impossiblities might lurk...the Star Pirate!!!!  <g>
In all these cases, remember that you don't necessarily have to be
able to out-fight the opposing ship. Many of these foes may decide to
go after prey with fewer guns after you open up at extreme range, just
to show how many guns you have. 

And of course, having guns on your merchant ship gives you the
ability to do a little privateering of your own....


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 20:21:01 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

At 08:44 PM 7/7/98 , Mark Urbin wrote:
>TravelrTNE@aol.com writes:
>>> Unfortunately my anecdotal's were of persons with a little bit better
>>> training like SWAT, or even better SEALS, SAS, or Mil Spec snipers(L.H.
>>> Oswald for one). Under the TNE systems they will missed 20% of the time,
>>> under all conditions and situations.
>>You're talking awesome and *rare* shooters.  They should get a special
>>dispensation from the rules, I think.  Either adopt Ruperts 20 or  the T2k
>>specilization maybe?, I think. 

SWAT are fairly common, lets see (Arlington, Dallas, Fort Worth, Irving,
Grand Prairie, Benbrook, Mansfield, Aledo, and Richardson) police SWAT,
County Sheriff SWAT, Department of Public Safety SWAT, FBI SWAT, US
Marshall SWAT. each with atleaat 4 team members 13 times 4 is 52, which
will be a gross underestimate. As for former SEAL members and former
snipers I can name four former SEAL's in my area(I work with one, another
was in the SEAL precursor group), and at least one former military
sniper(Not you Doug). Also we have several iron silhouette shooting groups
in the area around 100 memebers in the DFW area. So there are more awesome
shooters than you think. I perefer to let the skill determine whether or
not you hit. High skill low chance of missing works for me.

>    Big time awesome and rare shooters.  Remember that to get it's 'hit the
>target with the first shot no matter what the conditions' ability, SEAL
>Team Six had a bigger ammo budget than the entire US Marine Corps.

SEAL 6 had bigger budget than the USMC, that is I would have see those
figures, in other words I don't believe it, someone has exagerated a wee
bit. Just remember that just because it says ammo in the budget does not
mean that they will actually buy ammo it might be other Non PC thingees.

>    I'd argue the listing of Lee Harvey Oswald.  According to his Marine
>records, he was fair shot at best.  
>Either he got real lucky or start looking toward the grassy knoll... :-)

He is listed *officially* as the *lone* sniper of JFK, three shots with a
mediocre rifle and scope in record time, all hitting a target. The
Leatherwood brothers would be proud to make such a shots on a *non* US
political figure.

Sinbad Sam
sinbad@hex.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 21:08:04 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Squadron Concepts (was re: Imperial Fleets)

Douglas Berry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
IMTU, BatRons consist of two Battleships and their associated cruisers,
escorts, etc.  A FFS2 200kton BB is a very expensive and deadly item,
grouping them into eight-ship squadrons is a strategic mistake.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Whether that is a mistake or not depends on how big a squadron your
designated opposing force makes out of their 200ktn battleships.

A battleship is overkill for everything but one mission: turning chunks of
the enemy's biggest warships into E by way of C squared. It may be
that the only good strategic use of a battleship is to group it into
a line-of-battle type squadron and park it somewhere strategically
significant. Otherwise, you risk losing your battleships piecemeal
to his squadron of battleships - which may be able to invade you as
fast as news of their invasion can spread, giving you no time to gather
your scattered battleships into mutually-supporting squadrons.

Imagine the following scenario: We both have eight battleships (and
proper supporting ships), and we're facing each other over the frontier
between our two interstellar powers. Your battleships are showing the
flag in every one of four frontier worlds. My battleships are in port
(at the center of my command/control stucture, with fresh crews and
cheap maintenance). A minor incident blows up into a sudden war,
both of our naval headquarters know of it at the same time. 

My eight battleships are already at headquarters. I send them across
the border to where your most distant pair of battleships has just 
(or has not yet) recieved their orders.

My eight battleships meet your two battleships, we kill them with some
minor damage. We get to do this once again, maybe even twice again
before we get to something you have worth defending. I still have
seven (or even eight) battleships, you'll be lucky to have four - you
might have only two. Chances are I win.

For squadron concepts to work, you either have to have a lot of squadrons,
or you must ignore low-population planets in favor of critical high-pop
planets. If my route to your capitol could go through six low-pop
worlds, you'd better sacrifice them if you don't want to give me local
superiority wherever I go - as most of your defense fleet will be guarding
worthless dirtballs while I'm shelling your Imperial Palace. In my turn,
I'll ignore your low-pop planets once I have my fuel - I don't have the time
to subjugate them, or the ships to hold them if I did. We'll take our
entire fleet to your capitol planet, your low-pop hinterworlds we can
clean up later on.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 18:41:50 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Hit chances

At 06:04 PM 7/7/98 -0600, you wrote:

>	An extreme example of this is the "duel" described by on of USMC's
>premiere snipers, Gunny (?) Sergeant Carlos Hathcock. He wound up
>trying to hunt down a VC sniper who was trying to get him. After
>several false attempts, Sgt Hathcock finally saw a glint of light,
>took a chance (he couldn't fully see the target), and fired.
>
>	When he and his spotter got there, they discovered his bullet had
>gone in the front of the enemy's scope, out the back, and into his
>eye. In other words, the enemy sniper was a hair's-breadth away from
>shooting at him.

Long Tranh (White Feather, aka Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock) is still a
legegend among snipers.  Among his other feats, he made a kill at 2500
meters with a scope-mounted .50cal MG firing single shot, and pinned down
and destroyed and entire NVA company over a three day period.  He had them
in an open field, and everytime sombody moved, he fired.

When I trained as a sniper, his name was mentioned in the same tones that
baseball fans reserve for Babe Rith, or music fans for Hendrix.  An
absolute master of his art.  He's still alive, but extremely ill.  A
shooting competition was held recently to raise money to help him.
>
>>What I want from a system is the tendency of people to 
>>spray and pray (most of those rounds would probably 
>>have been fired at nothing) with it's commensurate low hit 
>>probabilities, and the ability of snipers to hit people at 
>>600 yards 60-70% of the time.
>
>	More generally, I want a system that takes into account the
>situation. A firefight, whether in a garage, engineroom, or jungle,
>should result in low hit rates. A carefully planned, "low-stress"
>shot under conditions similar to a firing range, should result in
>higher rates.

I really need to finish ACQ.  In it, you use APs for actions like shooting
and moving.  You also use APs to gain the first shot.  So the players has
to juggle the odds.. don't spend AP on the Action/Reaction task to have
more AP for aiming, but the other guy will probably shoot first, or go for
a quick shot and hope you get lucky..
- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 22:33:50 -0500
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@fastlane.net>
Subject: Re: 

At 01:32 AM 7/7/1998 -0800, you wrote:
>>>In Either Traveller's DIgest or MTJ, there is an article on hit locations,
>>>which expands the attributes allowed damage to all except soc... and even
>>>soc is viable...
>>>
>>Wil,
>>
>>IIRC it was a Space Gamer or Different Worlds article I have around here
>>some where oopss it is "On Target" by Steve Cook, page 18 what issue well
>>it does not show on my photocopy. It also has the effects of broken bones.
>>But it may not be the article that you are referring to.
>>
>Nope, tweren't the article I was referring to. THe one I am referring to is
>specifically for MT, and was in a T specific publication.
>
>Traveller's Digest had a really good series of medical articles for
>traveller, covering (amonst other things) psychological problems, bio/cyber
>tech medical applications, including regeneration of limbs, low berths.
>
>IMHO, TD (after release of MT) should be considered semi-canonical... the
>rules _errata_ definitely was.
>
>William F. Hostman
><Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
><Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
>IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
>as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
> 
See my post, Subject:  RE: Hit Locations

Jimmy Simpson
	nimrodd@fastlane.net
"Cannot say.
 Saying, I would know.
 Do not know.
 So cannot say."
		-Zathras (Babylon 5)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 22:33:27 -0500
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@fastlane.net>
Subject: Re: Which issue?

At 01:18 AM 7/7/1998 -0500, you wrote:
>On 07/06/98 at 05:22 PM,  "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
>said:
>
>>In Either Traveller's DIgest or MTJ, there is an article on hit
>>locations, which expands the attributes allowed damage to all except
>>soc... and even soc is viable...
>
>Does anyone happen to know which mag and issue?
>
>Eris
>-- 
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
>-----------------------------------------------------------
> 
See my post, Subject:  RE: Hit Locations

Jimmy Simpson
	nimrodd@fastlane.net
"Cannot say.
 Saying, I would know.
 Do not know.
 So cannot say."
		-Zathras (Babylon 5)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 23:44:01 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

At 08:21 PM 7/7/98 -0500, you wrote:

>SEAL 6 had bigger budget than the USMC, that is I would have see those
>figures, in other words I don't believe it, someone has exagerated a wee
>bit. Just remember that just because it says ammo in the budget does not
>mean that they will actually buy ammo it might be other Non PC thingees.

I don't know about the budget part, but I have heard that they expended
more rounds per year than the USMC did.  IIRC, it was something like
2000rnds per person, per week.  That is about a 104,000rnds per person, per
year.

Kurt Feltenberger
kurt@blazenet.net



http://www.igateway.com/clients/kurt/mp  Morrow Project Site

http://www.igateway.com/clients/kurt/pj PJ the Welsh Terrier Site

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 00:46:35 -0400
From: "chauncey smith" <Csmith@icdc.com>
Subject: Re: Trav Fig Substitutes

well I looked at those and the UN troopers look most like the Imperial space
merines.
and they are the right size at a true 25 mm.



>Hello:
>
>In the case no one mentioned it earlier, I think it's Geo Hex that makes
>a line of 25mm figs called "Stargrunt" that can be used in a pinch.
>
>As I recall, they have everything from male and female marines to a
>Japaenese school girl.
>
>Happy hunting!
>
>Niko
>scarab1@pacbell.net
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 22:49:38 -0700
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@home.com>
Subject: Re: Big Assets! (was TNE|TW2K Combat)

>I'm going to try doing away with the hit-points concept entirely,
>instead just rolling on a chart for wound severity.  ie.,

>Roll 2D6+DV (+1 if head shot)
>   2-3   Scratch
>   3-8   Slight
>   9-11  Serious
>   12+   Critical

I was a player in a Dr. Who-inspired RPG a few years back and the damage
system we used was completely free-form. The referee and players just made
up whatever damage effect they wanted based on the drama of the situation.

IIRC the Amber RPG also has a very free-form combat system (and every other
game mechanic).
- --
Richard Hough
rdhough@home.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 01:16:03 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

At 10:44 PM 7/7/98 , Kurt Feltenberger wrote:
>At 08:21 PM 7/7/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>SEAL 6 had bigger budget than the USMC, that is I would have see those
>>figures, in other words I don't believe it, someone has exagerated a wee
>>bit. Just remember that just because it says ammo in the budget does not
>>mean that they will actually buy ammo it might be other Non PC thingees.
>
>I don't know about the budget part, but I have heard that they expended
>more rounds per year than the USMC did.  IIRC, it was something like
>2000rnds per person, per week.  That is about a 104,000rnds per person, per
>year.

Kurt,

Numbers game old boy, that is what it is, the USMC still expended more
rounds total that team 6. Team 6 had few members than the Corps thus a
greater number of rounds expended per man but let us take into accound what
Force Recon expended/fired per man, or say some of the other services
*elite* units. The number of rounds expended can be stacked many ways to
show many things.<G>

Does *Ninja* propaganda ring a bell?

Sinbad Sam
sinbad@hex.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 02:44:05 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Big Assets! (was TNE|TW2K Combat)

On 07/07/98 at 10:49 PM,  Richard Hough <rdhough@home.com> said:

>I was a player in a Dr. Who-inspired RPG a few years back and the
>damage system we used was completely free-form. The referee and
>players just made up whatever damage effect they wanted based on the
>drama of the situation.

>IIRC the Amber RPG also has a very free-form combat system (and every
>other game mechanic).

Shhhhh! Don't give away the secret! ;->  I think *most* GM's use a
free-form combat system, when you get right down to it. 

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 19:33:42 +1200
From: Steve Rennell <wulf@sea.southern.co.nz>
Subject: Marshalls theories

I had written:
> >I had heard about that study as well, A friend of mine 
> >doing a Masters in Strategic studies told me about it. He 
> >also told me that it had been fairly conclusively 
> >debunked, but I don't have any more details than that.

> 	The show did mention several attempts to play down the study ...
> primarily on the grounds that "our glorious jarheads aren't cowards!"
>  But that wasn't the issue. 

I'm prepared to believe that most people weren't actually 
aiming at anyone, but I find it difficult to believe that they 
weren't actually firing.

> And if it was debunked, why did combat training change
> afterwards? 

Because it wasn't debunked for some time. They believed 
the conclusions - that doesn't mean it was right.

> And why did similar followup studies show an increase? 

Perhaps because Marshals orignal data/methods were 
flawed, and they were getting a more accurate (read 
"higher") result?

IMO the reason Vietnam had such a high PTSD rate was 
for two reasons.
1) Vietnam was not a place where units got to be rotated 
out of the front lines, and be safe in the rear, Unlike 
WW2. Troops were always potentially at risk.

2) Measurements are different. I've read a study which 
claimed that some US  units lost 110% of people in the 6 
weeks after D Day, and that approximately 25% were 
"non-wounded casualties" i.e. Shell shock victims.

The same study claimed that there was similar rates in 
the british units, particularly the bomber command (where 
a unit could lose 10% shot down per night - work those 
odds out)  which dealt particularly harshly with "lack of 
Moral Fibre" cases, with no appreciable differences 
compared with other units. 

The US supposedly had quite a lenient and humane 
policy towards people suffering from "battle fatigue" up 
until the battle of the bulge where Patton had some guy 
whacked for "deserting his post" for the encouragement 
of the others.

In partial summary, I think that PTSD has been with us 
for a long time, it just didn't have such a fancy name, nor 
quite as many shrinks to identify it. Thus I don't regard 
it's increase as necessarily validating Marshalls claims.

To address the issue of troops shooting, I've spoken with 
my local historian/strategic studies buff, who mentions 
that there were numbers of troops who were regarded as 
particularly effective, and that this might be because 
while the poorly trained troops like the average american 
grunt who got 6 weeks basic training were indeed 
reluctant to fire their weapons and attract attention to 
themselves, while well trained troops, like the New 
Zealanders and the Germans, were particularly effective. 

In particular German troops who'd been on the eastern 
front, knew the russians didn't take prisoners, and that 
retreating wasn't really an option, were ferocious in battle 
because they weren't going to survive otherwise. 
Germans were also giving their troops about 4 times as 
long basic training as most of the allies, right up until '45.

The New Zealanders were used as shock troops in both 
world wars because they were reknown for closing with 
the enemy (highest per capita losses). This may be to do 
with their training, or perhaps the society. (In vietnam we 
had too many volunteers for service, so our army was 
only letting people with at least 3 years service go to 
vietnam. A different picture to the reluctant US draftee 
portrayed in many sources. I'm sure that this will affect 
the degree of enthusiasm that people will put into their 
combats...) 

I'm not convinced that the marshal conclusions are due to 
the reasons suggested, poor training, lack of confidence, 
or societal expectations. 

Steve


- ---
Software is never having to say you're finished.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #643
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Wednesday, July 8 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 644



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Ammo Budgets
Sunbane
Re: Fleets of the Imperium
Traveller Items for sale
(no subject)
Re: Marshalls theories
Re: Imperial fleets
Re: Fleets of the Imperium
Re: Fleets of the Imperium
Re: Marshall's theories
re: Fleets of the Imperium
re: Marshalls theories

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 18:39:26 +1200
From: Steve Rennell <wulf@sea.southern.co.nz>
Subject: Ammo Budgets

> >    Big time awesome and rare shooters.  Remember that to get it's 'hit
> >    the
> >target with the first shot no matter what the conditions' ability, SEAL
> >Team Six had a bigger ammo budget than the entire US Marine Corps.
 
> SEAL 6 had bigger budget than the USMC, that is I would have see those
> figures, in other words I don't believe it, someone has exagerated a wee
> bit. Just remember that just because it says ammo in the budget does not
> mean that they will actually buy ammo it might be other Non PC thingees.

In "Immediate Action" by Andy McNabb he claims that 
the SAS training cadre has a bigger ammo budget than 
the rest of the british army.  They were regularly going 
through 5000 rounds per person per day, when the rest of 
the army had budgetry restraints.

Imagine spending 6 weeks, getting up at first light, 
dragging a tea urn out to the range, and a land-rover full of 
bullets, and shooting a pistol until it got dark, then going 
back to barracks...

That was their pistol familiarisation training.

Steve

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 12:36:55 +0400
From: Andy Long <andyl@icluae.co.ae>
Subject: Sunbane

Couple of weeks back, someone on the list reckoned they had a line on
the contents of the Sunbane archive. Anything ever happen about that?

Andy

================================================================
smtp Email:			andyl@icluae.co.ae OR
						andylong@emirates.net.ae
x400 Email:			c=ae;a=emdan;p=icl;ou1=abu0101;
						s=Long;i=AG;
						o=International
Computers Ltd;
A.G. Long, c/o ICL	Phone:	+971 (2) 335200/338066
PO Box 7237			Fax:	+971 (2) 338724
Abu Dhabi
United Arab Emirates
================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 01:49:45 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Fleets of the Imperium

Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> wrote

> The other possibility is that a large number of ships are laid up in
> ordinary. That would require that part of the annual budget was used 
> to maintain these inactive ships, which would make the active part of 
> the navy a correspondingly smaller share. If we assume that the 
> wartime budget of the Imperium is 1.5 times the peacetime budget (a 
> guesstimate based on the various government multipliers in TCS)

So what is the government code for the Imperial Government?

If the Imperium is government type 3, "Self-Perpetuating Oligarchy -
Government by a restricted minority , with little or no input from the
masses." [the nobility] (MT Ref's manual pg 22) than its peacetime
spending would be 0.90 times base and its war spending would be 1.20
times base. 1.20/0.90 = 1.3333

If the Imperium is government type 5"Feudal Technocracy - Government by
specific individuals for those who agree to be rules.  Relationships are
based on performance of ttechnical activities which are mutually
beneficial." [this view of the Imperium would note that most high
Impeial nobles are semicanonically filthy rich & own & control the
megacorporations.] its peacetime spending would be .95 times base and
its wartime spending would be 1.40 times base. 1.40/0.95 = 1.4737

If the Imperium is government type 8 "Civil Service Bureaucracy -
Government by agencies employing individuals selected for their
expertise" [To call the Imperium a type 8 you would have to assume that
the nobility do not really control it but that the bureacracy they
appoint does so.] (op cit) than its peacetime spending would be 1.10
times base & its wartime spending would be 1.20 times base.  1.20/1.10 =
1.0909.

If the government of the Imperium is a type C "Charismatic Oligarchy -
Government by a select group, organization, or class enjoying
overwhelming confidence of the citizenry." [the nobility] (op cit) then
its peacetime spending would be 1.20 times base and its wartime spending
would be 1.50 times base. 1.50/1.20 = 1.25

So the Imperium might well spend only a little more in wartime than it
does in peacetime.  I would be inclined to call the Imperium a
government type 3 which would mean its wartime spending was 133.33% of
its peacetime spending

Another option for determining the budget ratio would be to individually
calculate the revenue of each planet in the Imperium in both peacetime &
wartime & compare them, this method might be the most logical but would
be rather numbers heavy an approach.

>  and 
> that there would be enough ships in ordinary to operate on the wartime 
> budget, then there would be about one ship in ordinary for each two 
> active ships and about 6% of the budget would be spent on maintaning 
> them. If instead we assume that peacetime spending is the 3% of GNP 
> that _Striker_ gives and wartime spending would be 15% of GNP then the > Imperium could have EIGHT ships in ordinary for each active ship and
> spend 45% of its peacetime budget on maintaining them. That would push 
> the military spending up to about Cr150/citizen. Whether you like the 
> idea of an Imperial reserve fleet of 160,000 combat vessels is another 
> matter. (There is some small support for the notion in the fact that 
> acording to _Arrival Vengeance_ ships are still being reactivated in 
> 1123, six years after the beginning of the Rebellion, with at least 
> two more years to go before they are finished. OTOH it requires an 
> implausibly long view to maintain reserves that will take 8 years to  > activate...)

My take on this is that the technical personnel who activate old ships
are the same personnel who repair new ones & that therefore they were
too busy to activate ships as rapidly as they might have done in other
circumstances.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 02:23:03 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Traveller Items for sale

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- --------------E2C761C417
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

This is a sale, not an auction.  The good games store I work for,
Bosco's just picked up a bunch of CT & some MT items & I wanted to give
you a chance to pick some up.  To buy these items send email to
mailorder@boscos.com or visit our website at www.boscos.com Prices do
not include shipping, we ship everywhere in the world.  We take Visa,
MC, Discover, & AMEx.  We have a secure server to take your CC #.  We
also take checks (in US dollars, drawn on a US bank), & ship COD in the
US.  We also have many items for TNE & T4 available, including some on
sale.  To get a complete list of all Traveller items available send
Bosco's an email at
mailorder@boscos.com

- --------------E2C761C417
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="travelle2.txt"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="travelle2.txt"

7/8/97
         Traveller Games 

Quantity Item #  Title                         Retail $Comments

         Classic Traveller

some of these products may have a former owners name inside the front cover
or very minor highlighting but all significant problems are noted inquire
for details


Quan Stock # Title			 Price	   Comments

  1  GDW 200 Traveller Boxed Set            11.95  used - very fine
                No box or dice, books 1-3 only
  1  GDW 202 The Traveller Adventure        24.95  used - contents near mint
             a very nice product                   cover very fine
                                          mild water dammage to lower edge of
                                          last 30 pages or so
  1  GDW 300 Traveller Deluxe Edition Boxed 21.95  used- contents are near mint
                                                   box is very fine to fine with
                                                   some fading
  1  GDW 301 Charecters & Combat             2.95  used - contents near mint
             Book 1                                cover very fine
  1  GDW 302 Starships                       2.95  used - contents near mint
             Book 2                                cover very fine
  1  GDW 303 Worlds & Adventures             2.95  used - contents near mint
             Book 3                                cover very fine
  2  GDW ?   1001 Charecters Supplement 1    5.95
         (no stock # on product)
     copy #1                                       used - contents near mint
                                                   cover very fine
     copy #2                                       used - contents near mint
                                                   cover very fine
  2  GDW 304 Mercenaries Book 4
     copy #1                                 7.50  used - contents near mint
                                                   cover very fine
     copy #2                                 6.95  used -  contents near mint
                                                   cover fine w/ some corner
						   wear
  2  GDW 305 Animal Encounters
             Supplement 2                    5.95
     copy #1                                       used - near mint 2nd print
     copy #2                                       used - near mint w/ very 
                                                   fine cover
  2  GDW 306 The Kinunir Adventure 1         8.95
     copy #1                                       used - contents near mint
                                                   cover very fine, some
						   staple rust
     copy #2                                       used - near mint w/ very fine                                                       cover
  2  GDW 308 High Guard 2nd Ed
     copy #1                                 9.00  used - contents near mint
                                                   cover very fine
     copy #2                                 6.95  used - contents very fine
                                       	central interior pages came loose &
                                        repaired w/ tape, minor pen 
					anotations,  cover fair
  2  GDW 309 The Spinward Marches
             Supplement 3
     copy # 1                                9.95  used - mint w /near mint
                                             cover, minor pencil writing on
                                             Sword World Subsector map
					     1st printing
    copy #2                              5.95  used, contents near mint, lots of
                                      of highlighting.  All the amber & red 
                                      been highlighted in Amber & Red, bases,
                                      gas giants, asteroid belt mainworlds,
                                      borders drawn in w/ felt tip, some 
                                      highlighting of data (these annotations
                                      actually make it easier to use)
                                      back cover is poor & partially missing
  2  GDW 311 Research Station Gamma          5.95
             Adventure 2
    copy #1                                       used - some roll to book & 
                                                  corner rolling, very slight
                                                  dammage, contents very fine
    copy #2                                       used - contents near mint
                                                  crease to top RF cover
                                                  cover fine
  1  GDW 314 Twilight's Peak                 9.95  contents near mint
             Adventure 3                           cover very fine to near min
  1  GDW 315 76 Patrons Supplement 6         5.95  used - contents near mint
                                                   cover very fine
  1  GDW 316 Leviathan Adventure 4           7/95  used - contents near mint
                                                   cover very fine
  1  GDW 317 Best of the Journal of the Tra  5.95  used - contents near mint
             Aid Society Vol 1                     cover very fine
  1  GDW 318 Traders & Gunboats                    used - contents near mint
             Supplement 7                          cover very fine
                                                   minor writing on deckplans
                                                   for Type R merchant
  1  GDW 320 Library Data (A- M)             6.95  used - contents near mint
             Supplement 8                          cover very fine
  1  GDW 324 Fighting Ships                  6.95  used - contents near mint
             Supplement 9                          cover very fine
  1  GDW 325 Expidition to Zhodane           6.95  used - contents near mint
              Adventure 6                           cover very fine
  2  GDW 328 Best of the Journal of the Tra  5.95  used 
             Aid Society Vol 2
     copy #1                                 used - near mint
     copy #2                                 crease in front cover, otherwise
                                             nm interior & vf cover
  1  GDW 329 The Solomani Rim        10.95  contents near mint w highlighting
             Supplement 10           amber & red zones & borders are drawn
                                     in w/ felt tip pen, cover very fine
  1  GDW 335 Best of the Journal of the Tra  5.95  used - near mint
             Aid Society Vol 3
  1  GDW 336 Veterans Supplement 13          6.95  used - near mint
                                                   w/ fine cover
  1  GDW 337 Scouts Book 6                   8.95  used - near mint
  1  GDW 0704 Striker Boxed Set           26.95  used - complete & near mint
                                                 even includes original dice

                 Magazines

 
 1          JTAS #12                        4.00  used - no Merchant insert
                                                  otherwise good w/ some 
                                              water dammage & tears to cover
 1          JTAS #15                        5.00  used - near mint
 1          JTAS #16                        5.00  used - near mint
 1          JTAS #17                        4.00  used - no Atmospere insert
                                                  otherwise very fine
 1          JTAS #18                        5.00  used - near mint
 1          JTAS #19                        5.00  used - near mint
 1          JTAS #21                        6.00  near mint w/ vf cover
                                            Special Supplement #3 Missiles
                                            has been removed from the 
                                            magazine but is included with
			                    it		
 1          JTAS #22                        5.00  used - near mint

         Mega Traveller

 2  GDW 0210MegaTraveller Boxed Set
    copy #1 a later printing w/ correction 17.95  used - box is fair w/ wear
                                                  contents very fine
    copy #2 1st printing                   24.00  used - box is very fine w/ 
                                                  wear contents near mint
 1  GDW 0211Players Manual                 11.95  new - near mint
 1  GDW 0213Imperial Encyclopedia         11.95  new - very fine to near mint
                                           w/ 1/4" bend in top RF corner
 2  GDW 0214Rebellion Sourcebook           14.95
    copy #1                                       new - near mint
    copy #2                                       used - very fine to near mi
 2  GDW 0223Assignment Vigilance            4.95  new - mint in shrinkwrap

                 Digest Group Publications Items

 1  DGP 203 MegaTraveller Journal #3       12.95  new - nm slight cover wear
                                                  reccomended
 1  DGP 204 MegaTraveller Journal #4       12.95  new - nm slight cover wear
                                                  reccomended
 
     Other Traveller & Related Items

  2          Traveller Chronicle #8          6.00
  2          Traveller Chronicle #9          6.00
  2          Traveller Chronicle #10         6.50


  1  GDW 0205Imperium Boardgame             23.95  mint in shrinkwrap



- --------------E2C761C417--

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 06:59:16 -0400
From: Matthew Harelick <matth@CYBERNEX.NET>
Subject: (no subject)

subscribe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 13:59:09 +0200
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com>
Subject: Re: Marshalls theories

> (In vietnam we 
> had too many volunteers for service, so our army was 
> only letting people with at least 3 years service go to 
> vietnam. A different picture to the reluctant US draftee 
> portrayed in many sources. I'm sure that this will affect 
> the degree of enthusiasm that people will put into their 
> combats...) 

If you look whre most of Canada's military recruits come from (and I
really don't know much about the military - this is mostly IMO) they're
from the east - New Brunswick & Newfoundland - coincidentally, the two
poorest provinces in Canada. New Zeland, while very plesant, has never
struck me as a rich country - I think that for the most part, people in
poor places tend to be more eager to sign up for the military as it's a
much better career option that unemployment or gutting fish (or shearing
sheep) for a living.

By comparison, during the Vietnam era a lot of Americans pictured
themselves doing something a lot more enjoyable than sitting in a
foxhole with wet feet waiting to get shot.

I hope no vetrans on this list will take offence when I say that I don't
picture military life as being especially comfortable or enjoyable much
of the time and it is a lifestyle that, given a choice, most people
would not choose unless they had few other options.

[Well, that is kind of offensive, but I do think it is the unfortunate
truth - put a nice way, military life is hard and most people are soft.
I have often wondered if I could have made it in the military.]

Ethan
- --
Ethan Henry                                            egh@klg.com
Java Evangelist, KL Group                       http://www.klg.com
               "Software Development Productivity"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 14:21:34 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Imperial fleets

Marie Seeman writes:
>Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>OTOH, are there really no ships in the 5,000-20,000 T range?
> 
>I would say that there are cruisers smaller than 30,000 tons, but
>they're obsolete! [...]
> 
>The 5,000-30,000 ton "gap" is a result of the old kinds of ships that
>filled this range (cruisers) becoming larger, and the ships below this
>(destroyers and other escorts) staying the same size.  There may be "big
>escorts", but probably not many.

Sounds very plausible.
 
Douglas Berry writes:

>>However, FS states that CruRons are generally of 4 to 8 ships and the
>>examples in it implies that 8 ship BatRons are the norm.
> 
>IMTU, BatRons consist of two Battleships and their associated cruisers,
>escorts, etc.  A FFS2 200kton BB is a very expensive and deadly item,
>grouping them into eight-ship squadrons is a strategic mistake.

No one ever said that the Imperium was using its assets optimally. Why,
they can't even do something as easy as prevent piracy! ;-)

And Walter Smith replies:

>Whether that is a mistake or not depends on how big a squadron your
>designated opposing force makes out of their 200ktn battleships.

If FFW is an accurate depiction of major warfare in the Traveller universe
(not necessarily the case), opposing enemy forces are fleets composed of a
number of squadrons. So 4 2 ship squadrons would be much the same as one
8 ship squadron. Especially since the Imperium canonically split up some
of their BatRons in peacetime.
 
>A battleship is overkill for everything but one mission: turning chunks of
>the enemy's biggest warships into E by way of C squared.

Maybe, but the Imperium have used Tigresses for enforcing the interdict at
Andor.

>It may be that the only good strategic use of a battleship is to group it
>into a line-of-battle type squadron and park it somewhere strategically
>significant. Otherwise, you risk losing your battleships piecemeal
>to his squadron of battleships

Not if the battleships take a few elementary precautions. See below.

>- which may be able to invade you as
>fast as news of their invasion can spread, giving you no time to gather
>your scattered battleships into mutually-supporting squadrons.

Don't forget that according to _Striker_ the Imperium allow its member
worlds to retain 70% of their military budget for system defense. We
don't know just how many jump-capable ships planetary navies generally
build  --  I expect that will differ from planet to planet  --  but a
large part of that will be spend on non-jump-capable system defenses.
That means that even if all regular and reserve fleet units are away
from a planet, it is still defended by at least half again as many
vessels as are absent.
 
>Imagine the following scenario: We both have eight battleships (and
>proper supporting ships), and we're facing each other over the frontier
>between our two interstellar powers.

In addition to the eight battleships you'd have the equivalent of 12-18
more in system defenses (depending on how much of your budget you use on
your army).

>Your battleships are showing the flag in every one of four frontier
>worlds. My battleships are in port (at the center of my command/control
>stucture, with fresh crews and cheap maintenance). A minor incident
>blows up into a sudden war, both of our naval headquarters know of it at
>the same time. 
> 
>My eight battleships are already at headquarters. I send them across
>the border to where your most distant pair of battleships has just 
>(or has not yet) recieved their orders.
> 
>My eight battleships meet your two battleships, we kill them with some
>minor damage.

Not if the two battleships are using the SOP I worked out in a long-ago
TCS game: Move about outside the 100 diameter limit in a semi-random
manner and _never be withing weapon range of wherever you were one and
two weeks ago.

That way the enemy can never jump in within firing range of your ships
except by sheer accident, because they can't know where your ships will
be. And as soon as your ships see the odds against them, they jump.

Furthermore, even if your ships are stationed at a predictable point,
the attacking admiral may not be all that thrilled with the idea of
jumping in withing firing range of them. You see, even with the tight
arrival jump option, his ships will arrive spread out across a span
of about an hour (bell curve propabilities). That means his first
ships may very well be outnumbered, allowing the defenders to start
shooting while those attackers that has arrived are still in the
minority.

since a well-prepared ship can jump out 20 minutes after it initiates
jump procedures, the attacker could wind up losing one of his own
ships without even defeating any of the defenders (though admittedly
the odds favor him getting both at the prize of one of his own).

But that's not the worst part of it from the POW of the attacker. If
you randomly move about your battleships he has no way of being
certain that the two ships are the only ones he'll meet. And if by
bad luck he happens to jump in while you have 4 or 6 battleships in
the system, he could lose all of his ships...


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 14:44:52 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Fleets of the Imperium

Anthony Jackson writes:

>Hans Rancke-Madsen writes:
>>And in the end, even with the best will in the world it appears that the 
>>Imperial navy is only about half the size that it should be (Cr150 would be
>>1.5% of the GNP and we were calculating with 3%).
> 
>Hm...I think your estimate of GNP is off.

It certainly isn't very exact ;-).

>Remember, money for imperial shipbuilding should be Imperial (TL 15
>starport A) credits.

Regular ships, possibly (though I could give you an argument for auxiliary
ships like tankers and transports being built at the level suitable to
their jump number), but there are indications that not all regular ships
are TL 15. Colonial ships are built at the highest level in their
subsector and system defenses are built at every level from 8 to 15.
Also consider that the planets with the biggest production is the ones
with the highest TLs, so the low-Tl planets contribut the least to the
budget. But yes, the figure is propably a bit off (unless you use
_Striker_ figures where the per-capita income goes up with the TL  --
IIRC an industrial TL 15 planet can get close to Cr30,000).

>Also, is that 3% of GNP for the _fleet_, or is it for all imperial services?

It is the defense budget for the individual planets. Of this the Imperium
takes 30% (half for its regular fleets and half for its reserve fleets).
The remaining 70% is used for system defense and the army. A planet with
a breathable atmosphere will use 40% (of its 70%, ie. 28% of the total)
on the army, but one without will only use 6% (4.2% of total). The
Imperium's cut will presumably have to be shared between the Navy and
the Army, but IMO the Imperial Army is not very large (perhaps 6%?).



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 09:05:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael and MJ Houghton <herveus@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Fleets of the Imperium

Howdy!

Douglas Berry wrote:
> At 07:39 PM 7/7/98 +0200, you wrote:
> 
> >However, FS states that CruRons are generally of 4 to 8 ships and the
> examples
> >in it implies that 8 ship BatRons are the norm. (Also, I seem to remember
> >squadrons of non-combat vessels mentioned somewhere, but I can't recall the
> >references).
> 
> IMTU, BatRons consist of two Battleships and their associated cruisers,
> escorts, etc.  A FFS2 200kton BB is a very expensive and deadly item,
> grouping them into eight-ship squadrons is a strategic mistake.
> 
I believe that US Navy organized its battleships into units of two ships.
I concur with Doug's opinion here.

yours,
Micheal
- -- 
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@access.digex.net  | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
                          | http://www.access.digex.net/~herveus/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 23:06:24 -0700
From: Marie Seeman <s367886@student.uq.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Marshall's theories

Ethan Henry wrote:
>
> If you look whre most of Canada's military recruits come from (and I
> really don't know much about the military - this is mostly IMO) they're
> from the east - New Brunswick & Newfoundland - coincidentally, the two
> poorest provinces in Canada. New Zeland, while very plesant, has never
> struck me as a rich country - I think that for the most part, people in
> poor places tend to be more eager to sign up for the military as it's a
> much better career option that unemployment or gutting fish (or shearing
> sheep) for a living.

I will leave it to any Kiwis on the list to reply to Ethan about whether
or not New Zealand is a "rich country".  My understanding of it is, it
ain't totally zipperland.  Neither Australia (where I live) nor New
Zealand have ever had large military forces, except in the world wars.  

I'm going to swap over to talking about Australia now, to avoid making
mistakes about NZ.  Australia had next to no military forces at the
beginning of either world war.  In the case of World War II, it had a
regular army of about 2250 personnel, and a militia of 80,000.  The
militia had increased greatly over the two or three years before the
war, when it was obvious that war was likely.  There was no
conscription.

During the First World War, two referenda to introduce conscription were
defeated, largely on the strength of opposition from the Catholic
bishops, the Left, and the (Irish) Catholic sections of the working
class.  Of those who volunteered, about half had been born in Britain,
rather than Australia.

The situation in World War II was vaguely similar, although there was
conscription into the Militia.  The end result was about 640,000
Australians, out of a population of about 7,000,000, wound up in the
armed forces.  Few saw combat.  Of those who did, a high proportion were
from the volunteer forces, who had joined up to fight the Germans before
Pearl Harbour.

At least some of the volunteer forces would have to be regarded as
"elite troops", as several unit suffered extreme (around 90%) casualties
in certain situations, without collapsing!  The Australian commando
(special forces) units, on the other hand, were not regarded as an elite
(but some were!)  While several Australian units were taken prisoner,
none disgraced themselves.

The current Australian Defence Force (regular Army etc) was formed on
the basis of three battalions of volunteers from both militia and
volunteer divisions who formed part of the garrison of Japan after the
war. 

National Service (conscription) existed during the Vietnam War, leading
to a very large number of Masters degrees, as University students were
exempt from the draft.  These students were the basis of the
Anti-Vietnam war protest movements.  (The previous statement is based on
anecdotal evidence from people (leaders) who were there).

The current Australian military is an all-volunteer force.  There is a
term called "AJ".  It stands for "Army Jerk".  The ADF does not possess
a high status within Australian society, although its officers are
eagerly poached by corporations....

The NZ defence force is similar to, but smaller than, the ADF.  

I have gone through this rave mainly because someone else mentioned NZ
troops as a pretty good bunch.  The Australians were pretty much the
same.  A hint - I also play WWII miniatures - I know something about
WWII!  There is no particular "warrior" tradition in Australia and NZ -
neither country is a particular exporter of warriors in the way 15th and
16th century Scotland was (although there have been mercenaries from
both countries - but this is technically illegal).  There is no
particular "economic draft" in either country either - no-one "joins the
army to go to college", or anything of the sort, although there are
scholarships for students who join the defence forces - someone I went
to school with was a doctor on a hospital ship in the Gulf War, because
he had taken the bucks while he was a student.

I said at the beginning of this tirade that I was going to lead Ethan
Henry to the Kiwis.  I was wrong.  Ethan Henry was wrong.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 09:42:42 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Fleets of the Imperium

Hans Rancke wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
So the Imperium might well spend only a little more in wartime than it
does in peacetime.  I would be inclined to call the Imperium a
government type 3 which would mean its wartime spending was 133.33% of
its peacetime spending

Another option for determining the budget ratio would be to individually
calculate the revenue of each planet in the Imperium in both peacetime &
wartime & compare them, this method might be the most logical but would
be rather numbers heavy an approach.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
With an entity as big as the Imperium, I don't think we should worry about
differences between wartime spending and peacetime spending. By the
time you could get every planet in the Imperium geared to a wartime
economy, whatever war you were talking about would most likely
be over. Unless, of course, we're talking about MT's rebellion - but in that
case we were talking about functional units much smaller than the
Imperium.


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 10:00:08 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Marshalls theories

Ethan Henry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I hope no vetrans on this list will take offence when I say that I don't
picture military life as being especially comfortable or enjoyable much
of the time and it is a lifestyle that, given a choice, most people
would not choose unless they had few other options.

[Well, that is kind of offensive, but I do think it is the unfortunate
truth - put a nice way, military life is hard and most people are soft.
I have often wondered if I could have made it in the military.]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Let's see - you just said that military life is tough, and most people
wouldn't enjoy doing it, or couldn't handle it if they tried.

That means that the military people on this list are doing something
that's hard to do, when other lives would have been easier or more
comfortable.

Sounds like a compliment to the military types, rather than an offense.

I have lots of friends and family in the military, always try to take 
the time and thank them for doing it. My life would be several 
degrees of magnitude worse if these people weren't guarding the
gates and walking the walls. They get to do some interesting things,
but they spend a lot of their time doing unfun or even dangerous
things. Thanks guys.

ObTrav: what does the average Imperial citizen think of the Imperial
military? Are they heroes in the Spinward Marches, or agents of 
Imperial Oppression? (Probably matters for this whether there's
just been a war or not). How about in Core? Are they considered
relics of an old and embarrasing past?
Imagine someone who is used to all kinds of courtesy for wearing
his Imperial Marine uniform, when he's transferred to a sector that
has no use for "those jackbooted Impie thugs". 


Walt Smith

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #644
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Wednesday, July 8 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 645



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

re: Squadron Concepts
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #644
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Imperial Fleets
Re: Sunbane
Re: Sunbane
Re: Ammo Budgets
Fleets of the Imperium, revision 2, part 1
Re:Fleets of the Imperium, revision 2, part 1
Re: Fleets of the Imperium, revision 2, part 1
Re: Sunbane 
Re: Sunbane
rank insignia
Re: Current Games
Re: Ammo Budgets
Re: Ammo Budgets
Re: Current Games 
Re: Ammo Budgets 
Re: Current Games 
Re: Current Games
Re: Current Games 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 10:15:20 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Squadron Concepts

Hans Rancke wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>It may be that the only good strategic use of a battleship is to group it
>into a line-of-battle type squadron and park it somewhere strategically
>significant. Otherwise, you risk losing your battleships piecemeal
>to his squadron of battleships

Not if the battleships take a few elementary precautions. See below.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Lots of good basic info on system defense snipped...

...which might be irrelevant if we start talking about battleship-based
fleets instead of just squadrons. Eight fleets will beat four or six
fleets enough times to make a commander willing to fight at those
odds, and when we start talking about that many ships it becomes
irrelevant where in the system they are, or whether the invader
is spread out an hour or not - when you start talking large numbers,
factors like time and location start to abstract out.

Though it does make sense to give your commanders on the frontier
orders to retreat if faced by superior odds. If you only have one
homeworld worth protecting, it might even work to have them retreat
to it. If you have a few, things get nice and dicey - is my thrust
headed towards you Imperial Palace, or your starship construction
yards a couple parsecs away, or your industrial center a couple
parsecs the other direction?

That's why spies love to steal naval strategy plans...<g>

And if the frontier worlds are worthless dirtballs, they'll have 
inconsequential system defense of their own - a rescue cutter and
an aging 400-tn system defense boat won't even be noticed by 
a fleet of 200ktn battleships. If you want to seriously defend these
worlds, you'll have to use system defense assets built at your
homeworld(s) - which means that if I bypass these otherwise-worthless
frontier worlds, you'll not have these assets to defend your homeworld
with. Concentration of force - it's not going to affect either of our
empires if you lose or keep a pop-3 planet, you might lose your
pop-A planet if you strip some of it's defenses to protect that pop-3
world.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 10:08:21 -0500
From: William Barnett-Lewis <wlewis@mailbag.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #644

Hello all,

Quick question; now that I have my beautiful 4518th patches in hand,
I've been thinking thoughts about putting them on a spare BDU top I
have. Has there been anyplace where the rank insignia, enlisted and
officer for the various branches of Traveller military have been spelled
out? Or is it by guess and by golly? 

TIA,

William

- -- 

____________________________________________
William Barnett-Lewis wlewis@mailbag.com 
All standard disclaimers are in effect.
____________________________________________
IMTU: tc+ tm tn- t4+ tg-- ru- ge+ 3i	jt	au									   
ls pi+ ta he+ kk hi+ as+ va dr+ so++ zh+ vi- sy-
Geek 3.1: GCS d- s+:+ a C++ UL++++ UO++++(DG)
P--- L++ E++ W+ N++ w--- O M+++ V-- PS++ PE-- 
Y+ PGP t++ 5-- X-- R+ btv b++++
____________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 11:16:42 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

At 01:16 AM 7/8/98 -0500, you wrote:

>Kurt,
>
>Numbers game old boy, that is what it is, the USMC still expended more
>rounds total that team 6. Team 6 had few members than the Corps thus a
>greater number of rounds expended per man but let us take into accound what
>Force Recon expended/fired per man, or say some of the other services
>*elite* units. The number of rounds expended can be stacked many ways to
>show many things.<G>
>
>Does *Ninja* propaganda ring a bell?


Hmm, seems to me that if the Marines fire X rounds and SEAL 6 fires Y
rounds (both numbers being quantifiable) and X<Y, I don't see where it is a
'numbers game.'  Just simple accounting.

Kurt Feltenberger

“We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a
habit.”
- --- Aristotle ---

mailto:kurt@blazenet.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 16:23:07 +0100
From: trisen@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: Imperial Fleets

With the current interest in Imperial fleets I thought  I'd  post
my take on the 214th Fleet (based at Glisten prior  to  the  5FW)
which is part of an ongoing Traveller  campaign.  Check  out  the
214th Fleet link from:

    http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen/personal/traveller

You'll also find some MT conversions of  old  CT  ships.  (Anyone
remember the Plankwell class Dreadnaught?)

Regards PLST
- ------------------------------
... from Munchkin Manual Annex#4 (Cyberpunk)
Real Men:         wear MetalGear
Real Roleplayers: wear Lawtech skintight
Loonies           wear armored opera cloaks
                  and/or hide in armoured wheelie bins
Munchkins:        wear ACPA Powered Armor
- ------------------------------

___________________________________
To sign up for a free email account, visit http://www.postmaster.co.uk.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 08:40:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Cook <markc@peak.org>
Subject: Re: Sunbane

Andy Long <andyl@icluae.co.ae> writes:

> Couple of weeks back, someone on the list reckoned they had a line on
> the contents of the Sunbane archive. Anything ever happen about that?

That was me.  I'm still working on it, but don't expect any results for
at *least* a couple months.  As soon as I've recovered the material,
you can expect to see an announcement on the TML.

        - Mark C.
          Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy
          EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75
          Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR
          NRA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 mark f. cook * mark cook consulting *  shoestring graphics & printing
 2055 s.w. whiteside dr. * corvallis, or, 97333-1406 * markc@ssgfx.com
 Phone: 541-753-2732      Fax: 541-753-2738       http://www.ssgfx.com
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
       "Where am I... and what am I doing in this handbasket?"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 08:44:06 -0700
From: Andrew Gingery <gingerya@ohsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Sunbane

I'll read me maul when I get back              

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 09:36:47 -0700
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
Subject: Re: Ammo Budgets

Steve Rennell wrote:
...
> Imagine spending 6 weeks, getting up at first light,
> dragging a tea urn out to the range, and a land-rover full of
> bullets, and shooting a pistol until it got dark, then going
> back to barracks...

Mmm.  Oh yea...and having the tea makes it like a relaxing picnic.  ;-)

Kristian

------------------------------

Date: 08 Jul 1998 12:33 EDT
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Fleets of the Imperium, revision 2, part 1

Howdy all,

First, thanks to Walt for useful suggestions and opinions.
Also, thanks to Hans for his observations; as a devil's advocate
he represents reasonable opinions.  Plus, he did all the work
for me already :)

I dug up Supplement 9 (_Fighting Ships_), the _Spinrward Marches
Campaign_, and that book-I-thought-would-be-useless, the _Rebellion
Sourcebook_.  And I started digging.  I have to do this to convince
myself of the numbers.

- -Rob

SOURCE NOTATION

(S9)  Supplement 9
(SMC) Spinward Marches Campaign
(RS)  Rebellion Sourcebook
(H)   Hans' article

TERMINOLOGY

Armada: Sector fleet (a la Hans' article)
'Ron  : Squadron

ASSUMPTIONS

A 'ship' is an escort, cruiser, or battleship 5000 T or greater.

NUMBERS

Sector		16 numbered fleets		1000 ships
Subsector	 1 numbered fleet		  62.5 ships avg
Numbered fleet	 2-10 squadrons			50-200 ships
Squadron  	32-160 per sector		5-100  ships

Total Number of Ships in the Imperium:          20,000

ASSUMPTIONS

A 'ship' is an escort, cruiser, or battleship 5000 T or greater.

Averages for an armada (H) fall out thus:
   6 squadrons per numbered fleet,
   62 squadrons per sector,
   16 ships per squadron,
   KCr250 per battle rider squadron,
   KCr650 per ton otherwise.

Possible squadrons in the Spinward Marches:
  Squadron Type & Count       Total Ships       Total Tonnage  Total Cost
  --------------------------- ----------------- -------------- ----------
   1 x Tigress   BatRon		 6 ships	   3 mT	       BCr 2200
   2 x Plankwell BatRon		12 ships	 2.4 mT        BCr 1440
   4 x Kokirrak  BatRon		24 ships	 4.8 mT	       BCr 3600
  20 x Battle Rider BatRon     300 ships	 9.6 mT	       BCr 2320
  20 x Hypothetical CruRon     600 ships	15.8 mT	       BCr 9520
  -----------------------------------------------------------------------
  47 squadrons                 942 ships        33   mT	       BCr19080


EXAMPLE 1: 154th Battle Squadron (SMC)

   1 x 300,000 T tender		BCr23
   7 x  20,000 T battle riders	BCr70
   7 x   5,000 T fleet escorts	BCr23
  ------------------------------------
  15   475,000 T 		BCr116

  Average size: 32,000 T per ship.
  Average cost: BCr7.7   per ship, or
                KCr244   per T.


EXAMPLE 2: The Tigress BatRon (S9)

   There are one of these per sector.

   6 x 500,000 T battleship     TCr2.2
  ------------------------------------
   6   3 mT                     TCr2.2

  Average size: 500,000 T per ship.
  Average cost: BCr232    per ship, or
                KCr733    per T.


EXAMPLE 3: The Plankwell BatRons (S9)

   There are 1 or 2 of these per sector.

   6 x 200,000 T battleship     BCr720
  ------------------------------------
   6   1.2 mT                   BCr720

   Average size: 200,000 T per ship.
   Average cost: BCr120    per ship, or
                 KCr600    per T.

EXAMPLE 4: The Kokirrak BatRons (S9)

   There are 4 of these per sector.

   6 x 200,000 T battleship     BCr810
  ------------------------------------
   6   1.2 mT                   BCr810

   Average size: 200,000 T per ship.
   Average cost: BCr135    per ship, or
                 KCr675 p  per T.

HYPOTHETICAL EXAMPLE 1: a possible CruRon

   6 x  50,000 T cruiser	BCr168
   6 x  75,000 T fleet carriers BCr282
   8 x   5,000 T fleet escorts  BCr26
  -------------------------------------
  20   790,000 T                BCr476

  Average size: 39,500 T per ship.
  Average cost: BCr24    per ship, or
                KCr600   per T.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 09:38:15 -0700
From: Andrew Gingery <gingerya@ohsu.edu>
Subject: Re:Fleets of the Imperium, revision 2, part 1

I'll read me maul when I get back              

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 12:56:27 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: Fleets of the Imperium, revision 2, part 1

At 12:33 PM 7/8/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Howdy all,
>
>First, thanks to Walt for useful suggestions and opinions.
>Also, thanks to Hans for his observations; as a devil's advocate
>he represents reasonable opinions.  Plus, he did all the work
>for me already :)
>
>I dug up Supplement 9 (_Fighting Ships_), the _Spinrward Marches
>Campaign_, and that book-I-thought-would-be-useless, the _Rebellion
>Sourcebook_.  And I started digging.  I have to do this to convince
>myself of the numbers.
>
>-Rob

<<Good Stuff Snipped>>

One source you missed, or decided to omit, is Fighting Ships of the
Shattered Imperium.  I was looking over it last evening and they had a
rather good essay on the squadron concept.

Kurt Feltenberger

“We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a
habit.”
- --- Aristotle ---

mailto:kurt@blazenet.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 13:17:36 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Sunbane 

> Couple of weeks back, someone on the list reckoned they had a line on
> the contents of the Sunbane archive. Anything ever happen about that?

I think it's on the CD.

If you're talking about the stuff that was at ftp.ocf.berkely.edu, you won't
be able to *see* the directories, but you *can* loot it all by issuing a
'get *' command.

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 11:22:07 -0700
From: Andrew Gingery <gingerya@ohsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Sunbane

please ignore this

>>> Andrew Gingery <gingerya@ohsu.EDU> 07/08 8:44 AM >>>
I'll read me maul when I get back              
                                                                                
                                                                                
                                                                                
                                                                                
                                                                                
                                                                                
                                                                                
                                                                                
                                                                 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 13:03:38 +0000
From: edjs@bitslayer.net
Subject: rank insignia

> Date:          Wed, 08 Jul 1998 10:08:21 -0500
> From:          William Barnett-Lewis <wlewis@mailbag.com>
>
> Has there been anyplace where the rank insignia, enlisted and
> officer for the various branches of Traveller military have been spelled
> out? Or is it by guess and by golly? 

Travellers' Digest #14, "The Uniforms of the Terran Occupation Force" details 
Marine uniforms.

Rank for enlisted Marines is indicated by a pattern of discs on a square patch, 
worn on the upper sleeves and front and rear of headgear. 

   "The 'Cross' system of enlisted rank marking, in effect from 979, denotes E1 
   to E3 with, respectively, no discs, one disc at the left, and one disc each 
   on the left and right edges of the square.  E4 to E6 add a disc to the top, 
   and E7 to E9 add one at the bottom edge."

The wording is uncertain - do all of rank E4 to E6 add a single disc to the 
top, or does each rank E4 to E6 add a disc?

Branch is indicated by a triangle attached below the rank square.

Appointed unit senior NCOs (company, battalion, and regiment sergeant majors, 
usually E7, E8, and E9 respectively) dispense with the Cross insignia, and 
instead wear a device on the sleeve above the cuff:
   company sergeant major:   Imperial sunburst
   battalion sergeant major: Imperial sunburst in a wreath
   regiment sergeant major:  Imperial sunburst in a larger wreath surmounted by 
                             the Imperial crown

Officers (of all Imperial Armed Forces) consists of one to three silver (black 
on field dress) sunburts, called "pips", for ranks O1 to O3, one to three gold 
(grey on field dress) pips for ranks O4-O6, and one to four gold (grey on field 
dress) four-pointed stars for ranks O7-O10.  These are worn atop each shoulder 
and in the center of the chest on the combat environment suit.  (Another system 
is described later in the article for service and dress uniforms.)


- --
Edward Swatschek
edjs@bitslayer.net - edjs@mindlink.net - ICQ 2684960
http://home.mindlink.net/edjs/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 16:26:01 -0400
From: warmind@juno.com (james a clem)
Subject: Re: Current Games

On Tue, 30 Jun 1998 15:10:52 -0500 Eris Reddoch
<reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu> writes:
>I've been meaning to ask this of everybody for some time now.
>
>Are you currently playing in or GMing a Traveller game?  If you are,
>how about posting a brief synopsis of it to the list.
>
>I will if you will.  ;->
>
>Eris
>-- 
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
>-----------------------------------------------------------


OK, you asked for it!!

I'm GMing a PbEM game now, called The Scattered Worlds.  It very non
canon, with the players  (one scout, one merchant engineer, and two navy
guys) being formerly in the service of The New Home Confederation, a
collection of worlds just coming out of a very long night situation. 
Several old human colonies from the ancient Sivoloc Empire have been
found, as well as what may be the remnants of that same empire.  The
Sivoloc were virtually wiped out in a series of huge wars, always with
aliens, as they were apparently quite xenophobic, and the entire region
for the campaign was demolished.  The players have presently found
themselves stranded on a comet orbiting a star on the fringes of the
Confederation, while searching for a particular item for a mysterious
women they met shortly after mustering out.  The ship that the former
scout in the group last served on has been found destroyed, and the ship
that did it has now blown away the groups own ship.  They are currently
exploring a strange alien structure within the comet, while those that
destroyed their ship are beginning to land on the surface, hunting for
them.  Frankly, I don't know how they're going to get out of this one  ;)


Jim A. Clem, B.S.E.
CEO and Founder, Diasporan Industries, Inc.
www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081/
Traveller Geek Code tc+ tm !tn tt t4+ ru+() ge++ !3i jt au (+) st ls(+)
pi+ he++ merc++ dt+++
GM:  The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM

_____________________________________________________________________
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Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 16:44:54 EDT
From: Gr1zzly1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Ammo Budgets

In Rogue Warrior  by Richard Marcinko   
He explains that he wanted his team to train in all situations and shoot as
much as possible. This put his teams at an advantage over the enemy who have
probably only shoot a few hundred rounds in a year. While his guys were
shooting thousands a day.

Brad Goudey 
Gr1zzly@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 08:07:08 +1200
From: Steve Rennell <wulf@sea.southern.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Ammo Budgets

> Steve Rennell wrote:
> > Imagine spending 6 weeks, getting up at first light,
> > dragging a tea urn out to the range, and a land-rover full of
> > bullets, and shooting a pistol until it got dark, then going
> > back to barracks...
 
Kristian replied
> Mmm.  Oh yea...and having the tea makes it like a relaxing picnic.  ;-)

It does for the British... 

Steve

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 16:55:09 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Current Games 

> OK, you asked for it!!
> 
> I'm GMing a PbEM game now, called The Scattered Worlds.  It very non
> canon, with the players  (one scout, one merchant engineer, and two navy
> guys) being formerly in the service of The New Home Confederation, a
> collection of worlds just coming out of a very long night situation. 
> Several old human colonies from the ancient Sivoloc Empire have been
> found, as well as what may be the remnants of that same empire.  The
> Sivoloc were virtually wiped out in a series of huge wars, always with
> aliens, as they were apparently quite xenophobic, and the entire region
> for the campaign was demolished.  The players have presently found
> themselves stranded on a comet orbiting a star on the fringes of the
> Confederation, while searching for a particular item for a mysterious
> women they met shortly after mustering out.  The ship that the former
> scout in the group last served on has been found destroyed, and the ship
> that did it has now blown away the groups own ship.  They are currently
> exploring a strange alien structure within the comet, while those that
> destroyed their ship are beginning to land on the surface, hunting for
> them.  Frankly, I don't know how they're going to get out of this one  ;)

I'm sure you left us an out or 3 in there someplace.  We just have to *FIND* it.

Keven
- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 17:07:38 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Ammo Budgets 

> In Rogue Warrior  by Richard Marcinko   
> He explains that he wanted his team to train in all situations and shoot as
> much as possible. This put his teams at an advantage over the enemy who have
> probably only shoot a few hundred rounds in a year. While his guys were
> shooting thousands a day.

I was gonna rip into you, but I'm gonna be nice & just say, don't take 
Marcinko seriously.  At best, his stuff is the ultimate "There I was...' 
story.  But, just like a broken grandfather clock, even Marcinko gets 
*SOMETHING* right.  There is *NO* substitute for live-fire training.

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 17:29:22 -0400
From: warmind@juno.com (james a clem)
Subject: Re: Current Games 

On Wed, 08 Jul 1998 16:55:09 -0400 "Keven R. Pittsinger"
<jamstar@glasscity.net> writes:
>> OK, you asked for it!!

>> them.  Frankly, I don't know how they're going to get out of this 
>one  ;)
>
>I'm sure you left us an out or 3 in there someplace.  We just have to 
>*FIND* it.
>
>Keven

[GM grins hugely!!!]


Jim A. Clem, B.S.E.
CEO and Founder, Diasporan Industries, Inc.
www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081/
Traveller Geek Code tc+ tm !tn tt t4+ ru+() ge++ !3i jt au (+) st ls(+)
pi+ he++ merc++ dt+++
GM:  The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 16:57:41 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Current Games

I'm running a PBEM set in MOVOTTU (my own version of the Traveller
universe ;-).  The game is set several thousand years after something
destroyed a mythical empire called the Imperium.  Whatever destroyed
it, completely destroyed it...at least in this area...and brought on
the "dark times" where everyone regressed to what we'd call TL0 and
lost virtually all information on what had gone before.  Exactly what
happened before, during or after that time has been lost, what little
that *is* remembered is in the form of myths, legends, and children's
stories.  

As societies slowly rediscovered science it became obvious that humans
originated elsewhere.  Scientists have advanced number of theories
about how mankind came to be spread across all the known populated
worlds. Currently the two most popular are that once there was a vast
empire that spread mankind then collapsed, and that humanity is the
product of simple parallel evolution and interbreeding that has
occurred as dozens of societies rose visited nearby stars then sank
back into the "dark times."

The campaign is set in area near the end of a long star main called
the Quental Main locally where several societies have recently
reentered space and are competing with each other.  The PC's are
citizens of the Confederated Systems of Argent, a collection of a
dozen worlds, which has been at war with the neighboring Zeristu
Empire intermittently for most of 100 years.  Coreward of both the CSA
and Zeristu are hundreds of systems, almost completely unexplored and
containing unknown aliens and uncontacted humans, new markets, ancient
artifacts, and who knows what all.  Both empires are expanding slowly
along this main, but have run into several independent systems that
have resisted forced incorporation by Zeristu and peaceful union with
the CSA. 

The "hook" that connects the various PC's together is their
great-great grandfather Akus Moby.  Akus has died and left them an
inheritance, a starship.  The PC's only have to travel from Argent to
Mark and prove that they are Moby's heirs to collect it...oh, and they
have to "work it" for the next seven years on the Quental Main to get
a clear title.  

So far, the group (two ex-scouts, two merchants, a cashiered CPO, an
archaeologist, and couple of...shady characters) has discovered and
explored an ancient Imperial site on Gorath, engaged in various sorts
of vandalism, b&e, and assaults, been almost witnesses to (and
suspects in) a murder aboard a liner, and wrangled endlessly about who
should be boss and run things.  ;-> 

Currently they have taken working passage on a far trader heading from
Beck to Mark, and have just survived the explosion of a steam coolant
pipe in Engineering.  Once they get to this system's mainworld expect
more hilarity!  

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 18:29:21 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Current Games 

> 
> On Wed, 08 Jul 1998 16:55:09 -0400 "Keven R. Pittsinger"
> <jamstar@glasscity.net> writes:
> >> OK, you asked for it!!
> 
> >> them.  Frankly, I don't know how they're going to get out of this 
> >one  ;)
> >
> >I'm sure you left us an out or 3 in there someplace.  We just have to 
> >*FIND* it.
> 
> [GM grins hugely!!!]

Tourist.  <ducking>

Keven
- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #645
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Thursday, July 9 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 646



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Pistol firing bonuses?
Background Color - Freighters & Liners (long)
Re: Shouldn't we be dead?
Re: Does YOUR ship have a Lanthanum Grid?
Re: Pistol firing bonuses?
Re: Marshalls theories
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Re: Does YOUR ship have a Lanthanum Grid?
Re: Pistol firing bonuses?
Re: Background Color - Freighters & Liners (long)
Re: Fleets of the Imperium
The Morrow Project (OT)
Mothballed ship reactivation
Re: Fleets of the Imperium
Re: The Morrow Project (OT)
Re: The Morrow Project (OT)
Re: The Morrow Project (OT)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 00:31:00 +0200
From: Deligiannidis Nikolaos <nikolaos.deligiannidis@stud.tu-muenchen.de>
Subject: Re: Pistol firing bonuses?

Mark Cook wrote:

> Robert Eaglestone <eaglesto@nortel.ca> writes:
> >
> > If Roland chooses to shoot with a pistol rather than
> > a rifle, should he get a DM for ease-of-aiming?
>
> If anything, he should get a *NEGATIVE* DM for a shorter sight radius.
>
> (When the front and rear sight on a weapon are closer together, it
> increases the margin of error when aiming.)

I may be silly, but isn't it easier to bring a handgun/pistol to bear (
draw it) than a rifle.Maybe it depense from which posture you try to aim
????

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 23:27:19 +0100
From: "Buston, John" <john.buston@eds.com>
Subject: Background Color - Freighters & Liners (long)

Excerpt from a Stones Throw Shipping Yard sales brochure:

Ships for Emerging Markets
====================
Once a reasonable level of trade between neighbouring worlds becomes
established, and the space lanes are relatively secure, then its time
for the shipping corporations and governments to move in. 

Tramp traders are all well and good on the wild frontier but once
stability is established, and a reasonable infrastructure is in place,
the market is ready for a more professional service.

To satisfy this market Stones Throw Shipyards announces the launch of
its highly profitable, entry level "Contact" series of freighters and
liners.

These ships are the end result of a rigorous design and testing process
with many designs assessed for profitability, ruggedness, flexibility
and practicality. All ships are designed to meet or exceed the very
latest Imperial standards. We don't expect you to take our word for it,
we give you the figures straight and let you judge for yourselves (and
unlike some of our competitors we include everything and use realistic
figures!).

And don't worry about inadequate infrastructure in emerging markets,
these ships can go anywhere. They are designed to operate in sub-optimal
conditions with ease. They can operate from a high gravity down-port,
they can scoop and refine their own fuel, and carry more than adequate
deterrence. With a high level of automation and thoughtful design these
ships are a pleasure to operate.
 
First of all what are we offering:

First Contact Liner
==============
Our "First Contact" liner, as its name suggests, is designed to be the
first dedicated passenger liner to be used in a new market. When
passenger trade between adjacent worlds approach 2000 return passengers
per year, then this is the liner for you.

This liner carries at least 100 first class passengers, 100 business
class passengers, and 100 economy class passengers. I say *at least*
because in line with our policy of painting a realistic, rather than
rosy, picture this is assuming worst case of all rooms single occupancy.

Like all of our liners it is designed to be profitable at the 50%
utilisation level, while still being able to undercut standard rates by
25% or more on price. This gives scope for use in marginal markets,
allows flexible pricing, and enables you to weather downturns in the
market. 

For the more developed market we have variants of this liner for the
different market segments. Our "High Contact" liner is designed for the
more discerning traveller with luxury and personal service in mind. The
"Business Contact" liner is for regular business passengers with
superior accommodation. Finally our "Street Contact" liner is for the
regular traveller, looking for value. Specifications and financial
analyses for these variants are available on request.

All our Contact series of liners cost under 200 MCr. The First Contact
liner is just MCr 195. Such a low price for such a big liner (1500DT) is
possible due to the standard, tried and tested, design. This also keeps
down the cost of spares and maintenance.

How did we arrive at this design? Well we assessed the profit curve for
a variety of different size liners with different levels of
accommodation, propulsion  and automation. The profit curve rises
quickly at first, but levels out just before 1500DT. Sure you could get
an extra 1 or 2% return on investment by buying liners twice the size.
But considering the flexibility, economy and market penetration enabled
by a smaller design, why bother?

Passenger fares to achieve a 5% profit at 50% utilisation are:

High        Cr 6400 (large stateroom - high quality food & service) 
Business Cr 5100 (large stateroom - standard quality food & service)
Economy Cr 3500 (small stateroom - standard quality)


First Contact Freighter
=================
Stones Throw Shipyards are proud to announce the arrival of their 3000
DT entry level bulk freighter. Using an exhaustive design process we
have come up with a truly awesome freight carrier offering unparalleled
performance at an entry level price of just MCr 420. It is capable of
carrying over 2400DT of freight and able to undercut freight market
price by more than 5% when only 80% loaded.  So once trade between
adjacent worlds exceeds 50,000 DT per annum its time to step in and
start signing those contracts.

Notes
=====
All figures are prepared to Imperial Standard guidelines or better
[Akins FFS2]. Costs include Ship's Payment, Depreciation, Insurance,
Maintenance, Fuel, Salaries, Life Support and Berthing.

In line with conservative accounting practice all figures are based on
worst case assumptions and you therefore can expect much higher returns
than indicated. In particular figures are based on only 25 trips per
year and life support costs of KCr2 per person. Increase the number of
trips or reduce the life support costs and profits rise steeply.

A detailed economic analysis is available on request.

I'm sure you will agree these are very practical and profitable market
solutions.

Ship Designs to follow.

John

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 23:27:50 +0100
From: "Buston, John" <john.buston@eds.com>
Subject: Re: Shouldn't we be dead?

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
So, how do you shield a planet from a supernova?  

[snip - bit about gamma rays]

Now, we need to eliminate the charged particles, which will be spread
out a lot more in time. The trick here is distance and a magnetic field
- - it shouldn't
take an utterly impractical magnetic loop to shadow the planet, if you
put it a
ways off -- you probably can't trap the particles, but you can scatter
them
with a field a lot weaker than your average planetary magnetic field.  I
really
don't know the exact scale of doing this, but it doesn't seem
impossible.

So, how possible does any of this seem given Imperial technology?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

How about a few hundred Bussard Ramjets (TL9?) between you and the
supernova. They catch the ionized medium in their magnetic ramscoops and
fuse it for thrust, thrusting laterally so that the ions are directed
away from the planet. The scoops will cause a lot of scatter too. A
series of overlapping layers of these should drastically reduce the
particles reaching the planet. But is it enough? And what will the ions
do to your star? I don't think you will be able to shield that!


John

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 00:42:13 +0200
From: Deligiannidis Nikolaos <nikolaos.deligiannidis@stud.tu-muenchen.de>
Subject: Re: Does YOUR ship have a Lanthanum Grid?

Eris Reddoch wrote:

> On 07/06/98 at 03:16 PM,  Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com> said:
>
> >Thus, you can have jump coils and jump grids in the same universe.
>
> I use both in mine.  ;-> The grid inside the hull armor produces the
> protective interface between the bubble of normal space and deadly
> jump space.  The coil and jump mass are used to open the rift though
> which the ship enters jump space.
>
> The coil and fuel are required at the beginning of jump, but the coil
> can be shut down after the ship is actually *in* jump space.  The grid
>
> has to continue running as long as the ship remains in jump space.

What will hapen if the grid or exterior coils are hit in combat ???
Will the ship be able to enter Jumpspace( redundant systems ???)!!!
                                                                    Nick

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 16:51:52 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Pistol firing bonuses?

Deligiannidis Nikolaos wrote:

> > (When the front and rear sight on a weapon are closer together, it
> > increases the margin of error when aiming.)
> 
> I may be silly, but isn't it easier to bring a handgun/pistol to bear (
> draw it) than a rifle.Maybe it depense from which posture you try to aim

We're talking apples and oranges here. It is faster to bring a handgun
to bear...yes, that's the primary reason handguns exist.

However for long range aiming accuracy, a pistol will lose out to a
rifle every time, and a large part of the reason is that the sight
distance is so much shorter with a pistol.

Finally, quickly aiming the two are completely different; you 'point' a
pistol more than you aim it, the reverse is true for a rifle. (I know
I'm being a bit confusing here...)

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 15:25:52 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Marshalls theories

In mail you write:

> ObTrav: what does the average Imperial citizen think of the Imperial
> military? Are they heroes in the Spinward Marches, or agents of 
> Imperial Oppression? (Probably matters for this whether there's
> just been a war or not). How about in Core? Are they considered
> relics of an old and embarrasing past?

> Imagine someone who is used to all kinds of courtesy for wearing
> his Imperial Marine uniform, when he's transferred to a sector that
> has no use for "those jackbooted Impie thugs". 

Well, if he went via miltary transport, he'll have been warned about
wearing his uniform when off duty. If he went via civilian transport,
then it'll depend on which end wrote the orders. If the destination end
did, they may include a warning as part of a "breifing packet" type of
thing. 

The military has to deal with that sort of thing *now* and they are
pretty good about warning folks in advance. Though often the warnings
may be "unofficial" and passed on throught non-com's "network" that is
what keeps the military running. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 19:18:38 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

At 10:16 AM 7/8/98 , Kurt Feltenberger wrote:
>At 01:16 AM 7/8/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>Kurt,
>>
>>Numbers game old boy, that is what it is, the USMC still expended more
>>rounds total that team 6. Team 6 had few members than the Corps thus a
>>greater number of rounds expended per man but let us take into accound what
>>Force Recon expended/fired per man, or say some of the other services
>>*elite* units. The number of rounds expended can be stacked many ways to
>>show many things.<G>
>>
>>Does *Ninja* propaganda ring a bell?
>
>
>Hmm, seems to me that if the Marines fire X rounds and SEAL 6 fires Y
>rounds (both numbers being quantifiable) and X<Y, I don't see where it is a
>'numbers game.'  Just simple accounting.

Kurt,

There is not such thing as "Simple Accounting" in any military.<G> Many
things can be *hidden* in plain sight by inventive minds in such budget.

As for X and Y well the rounds per marine and Special Ops is what it should
be. I would want the Spec Ops to be better at conventional firearms than
general Marine. 

But I think that all infantry units should have more live fire than they
currently get. 

But the budget of say the Marines has some expensive ammo that the Spec Ops
have no need for like 8 inch howitzer rounds, or depleted uranium anti-tank
rounds, so unless the Spec Ops are playing extremely expensive ammo on
large scale the Marines ammo budget in money will be bigger.

How many of you out there can name the various *elite* units that each
branch of the US military has?

Sinbad Sam
sinbad@hex.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 20:15:41 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Does YOUR ship have a Lanthanum Grid?

On 07/09/98 at 12:42 AM,  Deligiannidis Nikolaos
<nikolaos.deligiannidis@stud.tu-muenchen.de> said:

>> I use both in mine.  ;-> The grid inside the hull armor produces the
>> protective interface between the bubble of normal space and deadly
>> jump space.  The coil and jump mass are used to open the rift though
>> which the ship enters jump space.
>>
>> The coil and fuel are required at the beginning of jump, but the coil
>> can be shut down after the ship is actually *in* jump space.  The grid
>>
>> has to continue running as long as the ship remains in jump space.

>What will hapen if the grid or exterior coils are hit in combat ???

The coil is internal.  There are two, actually. one near the bow
through which the hydrogen is injected and one near the stern (called
the ring) where the wormhole is pinched shut.

The grid is *inside* the hull armor next to the inner skin of the
ship. When it is charged it projects an energy field that extends
through the armor out to about 3 meters.

>Will the ship be able to enter Jumpspace( redundant systems ???)!!!

The grid has redundancy built in, so a *few* gaps can be compensated
for.  The larger the gaps the thinner the boundary and the more chance
of jumpspace intruding into the ship.

The coils aren't expendable.  If the coils are damaged the ship will
either misjump or won't jump at all.  But, because the coils are
inside the armor, except at the open bow during jump injection they
are pretty well protected. 

IMTU, of course.

Eris

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 20:22:50 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Pistol firing bonuses?

On 07/08/98 at 04:51 PM,  Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
said:

>> I may be silly, but isn't it easier to bring a handgun/pistol to bear (
>> draw it) than a rifle.Maybe it depense from which posture you try to aim

>We're talking apples and oranges here. It is faster to bring a
>handgun to bear...yes, that's the primary reason handguns exist.

>However for long range aiming accuracy, a pistol will lose out to a
>rifle every time, and a large part of the reason is that the sight
>distance is so much shorter with a pistol.

The length of the barrel has something to do with the accurracy of the
shot as well.  Not the aim, but the actual path of the slug.  Pistols
are inherently less accurate beyond some short range.

>Finally, quickly aiming the two are completely different; you 'point'
>a pistol more than you aim it, the reverse is true for a rifle. (I
>know I'm being a bit confusing here...)

I don't know if this is true or not, but I'd think "hip firing" either
a rifle or pistol would suffer about the same aiming penalty.

Of course, I'm not a shooter.  My experiences are those of a small
game hunter and I haven't hunted in 25 years. ;->  So, what do I know.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 21:44:01 -0400
From: Joseph Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Background Color - Freighters & Liners (long)

This is only tangentially related to the liner described...

That's an awful lot of passengers.  I don't think that many are possible
using the vanilla rules.  Yes, you can assume (as with freighters) that
these are non-pc ships and don't abide by the listed rules.

However, the question is:  Has anybody designed a ship by starting with a
trade route and then basing the cargo hold and staterooms based on the
expected cargo/passengers? These would obviously be specialized vehicles.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 04:05:47 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Fleets of the Imperium

Peter Newman writes:

>Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> wrote
> 
>>The other possibility is that a large number of ships are laid up in
>>ordinary. That would require that part of the annual budget was used 
>>to maintain these inactive ships, which would make the active part of 
>>the navy a correspondingly smaller share. If we assume that the 
>>wartime budget of the Imperium is 1.5 times the peacetime budget (a 
>>guesstimate based on the various government multipliers in TCS)
> 
>So what is the government code for the Imperial Government?

I'm not sure any of the standard classifications for planetary governments
really works (due to the communiciations problems), but fortunately it is
not relevant. According to _Striker_ the Imperium gets 30% of what each
individual government use for defense. Thus it supposedly gets 30% of 0.9
times base in peacetime and 30% of 1.2 times base in wartime from each
self-perpetuating oligarchy, 30% of 0.95 times base in peacetime and 30%
of 1.4 times base in wartime from all its feudal technocracies, etc.
Please note that this mixes rules from two different rules sets. The 30%
comes from _Striker_, but the government modifiers come from _TCS_. (Or
are they in _Striker_ too? I forget.)

I say supposedly, because I'd like to propose a slightly simpler system
that, IMO, makes a bit more sense, namely that the Imperium gets a fixed
percentage of each planet's GWP, regardless of government type. Otherwise
the Imperium's cut would change every time there was a change of government
(or every time the Scouts reclassified the _same_ government as another
type!)

The system I propose is that the Imperium gets 1% of GWP in peacetime. On
the average individual planets spend 2% of their GWP on defense. This works
out as the official 3% of GWP in peacetime with 33.3% (instead of 30%) of
that going to the Imperium. Not, IMO, canon-breaking.

The thing is, according to _Striker_ wartime spending can go as high a 15%.
(I suspect that it can't stay that high permanently, but there are no rules
about that). This means a five-doubling of military budgets instead of the
10 to 50% increases from _TCS_. My explanation for that is that _TCS_ deals
with small political units living in a state of tension far higher than
the peacetime Imperium. The _TCS_ figure of Cr500/citizen for naval forces
alone (army forces are _not_ not included in this figure) is already 5% of
GWP if we assume a GWP of Cr10,000/citizen. So I assume that the base _TCS_
figure is actually 10% of GWP with half the money going to the navy. This
would make the highest possible wartime government modifier equal to 15%
of GWP, which fits neatly with _Striker_.

But as mentioned before, that means that the wartime budget for the
Imperium is 500% of its peacetime budget instead of the 110-150% we
get with _TCS_ rules.

>So the Imperium might well spend only a little more in wartime than it
>does in peacetime.

Only if you go by _TCS_ rules. And if you do, don't you think that you
should also go by the _TCS_ budget figures? Which happens to be
Cr500/citizen for the naval forces alone instead of roughly 70% of
Cr300/citizen.

>Another option for determining the budget ratio would be to individually
>calculate the revenue of each planet in the Imperium in both peacetime &
>wartime & compare them, this method might be the most logical but would
>be rather numbers heavy an approach.

Well, you could do it for half a dozen representative subsectors and
multiply the average by 300.
 
>>Whether you like the idea of an Imperial reserve fleet of 160,000 combat
>>vessels is another matter. (There is some small support for the notion
>>in the fact that acording to _Arrival Vengeance_ ships are still being
>>reactivated in 1123, six years after the beginning of the Rebellion,
>>with at least two more years to go before they are finished.
> 
>My take on this is that the technical personnel who activate old ships
>are the same personnel who repair new ones

That's my take too.

>& that therefore they were too busy to activate ships as rapidly as they
>might have done in other circumstances.

Reactivating an _AHL_ Class cruiser will take about 15 weeks. Repairing a
shot-up ship will take one to eight weeks depending on the nature of the
damage. So certainly repairs will have priority over reactivating. (By the
same token reactivating will have priority over new construction).

But by the _TCS_ rules Trin alone has a shipyard capacity of 12,000,000 T
in wartime. For Trin to push reactivating the _Arrival Vengeance_ down the
priority list for six years because of battle repairs, the Vargr and the
Aslans would have to have shot up (but not destroyed) roughly 85 _Tigress_
Class battleships (or an correspondingly higher number of smaller ships)
per year for six years to tie up Trin alone. Multiply that with the
shipyard capacity of Glisten, Rhylanor, Mora, Magash (0316 Deneb), Starn
(1417 Deneb), Atadl (3015 Deneb), Tobia (3215 Trojan Reach), and Lintl
(0503 Reft), and you can multiply that number by at least a factor ten.

850 _Tigresses_ per year for 6 years, that would be about 5000. I don't
think that sounds at all plausible, do you?

Walter Smith writes:

>With an entity as big as the Imperium, I don't think we should worry about
>differences between wartime spending and peacetime spending. By the
>time you could get every planet in the Imperium geared to a wartime
>economy, whatever war you were talking about would most likely
>be over. Unless, of course, we're talking about MT's rebellion - but in that
>case we were talking about functional units much smaller than the
>Imperium.

My suggestion would be that the sector and subsector dukes has the
authority to declare a 'state of emergency' during which they are
entitled to demand a tax rate of 5% of GWP rather than 1% and also
entitled to demand that their planets go on a war footing. Such a
declaration would always be subject to later review, and any duke
found to have panicked without ground would propably be in big
trouble. Anyway, I don't suppose all of the Imperium went on a
war footing during the 5FW, but I certainly think the Domain of Deneb
and propably also Corridor (I imagine that whenever the Corridor
Armada (OK, Fleet) is away from Corridor, the systems there gets
a bit antsy) did go on a war footing. Possibly also Vland. 


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 13:00:41 +1000
From: rolfe@skie.its.unimelb.edu.au
Subject: The Morrow Project (OT)

Hi there,

Juist yesterday while crawling through the piles of junk at the local game
stores stocktake sale, i found a shrinkwrapped beige packet containing 2
booklets for The Morrow Project.  They didnt have any other title that I
could see, just a b/w picture of an AFV.

I have heard that this game had some pretty cool rules, and since the sale
price was less than a can of drink and a sandwich I grabbed it.


Does anyone know whether ?I have picked up the actual rulesbook or some
sort of acccessory pack?  What other stuff was available for it, and has it
really been out of print since the early eighties?

Cheers,
rolfe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 20:10:33 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Mothballed ship reactivation

...
> the military spending up to about Cr150/citizen. Whether you like the 
> idea of an Imperial reserve fleet of 160,000 combat vessels is another 
> matter. (There is some small support for the notion in the fact that 
> acording to _Arrival Vengeance_ ships are still being reactivated in 
> 1123, six years after the beginning of the Rebellion, with at least 
> two more years to go before they are finished. OTOH it requires an 
> implausibly long view to maintain reserves that will take 8 years to
> activate...)

  Wouldn't the Domain of Deneb had a simple lack of a pressing need to
re-activate ships at the highest possible rate? They weren't sufffering
significant combat attrition, and there's no need to interfere with their
own infrastructure w/o a war for those ships to fight, is there?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 20:08:54 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Fleets of the Imperium

[discussion about fleets, deployment]

>Move about outside the 100 diameter limit in a semi-random
>manner and _never be withing weapon range of wherever you were one and
>two weeks ago.
This means your capital ships are several hours away from the primary 
world - which makes one wonder what the point of having them there is: they
can't respond to a commerce or facilities raid, and (since they're only two
of them) can't deal with a major fleet attack.

It's interesting to note that it's implicit in mImperial deployment (and in
FFW) that civilian populations are essentially off-limits to attack, since
none of the deployments discucssed are capable of defending worlds from
strategic attack...

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 23:34:23 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: The Morrow Project (OT)

The Morrow Project has been out of print for several years now.  There are
several people in negotiations with Timeline (the publishers) for the
rights to the game, but God only knows when or if it will ever come to
pass.  To my knowledge, there were no products like what you describe
(shrinkwrapped beige packet with 2 booklets) put together for sale in the
US.  I do know that there were some variations in the products that were
sent to the UK, but that is where my info stops.  

You might have an early packet of the Vehicle Blueprints, that the local
distributer added something to.  If you have a beige booklet that says "The
Morrow Project" and has three symbols (3 spears, a microscope, and the Eye
of Ra) on the cover, you have the basic rules.

If you want more information, let me know off-list and I'll surely help!

Obj. Trav:

Current PBEM campaign is a Morrow Project-Traveller cross over...



At 01:00 PM 7/9/98 +1000, you wrote:
>Hi there,
>
>Juist yesterday while crawling through the piles of junk at the local game
>stores stocktake sale, i found a shrinkwrapped beige packet containing 2
>booklets for The Morrow Project.  They didnt have any other title that I
>could see, just a b/w picture of an AFV.
>
>I have heard that this game had some pretty cool rules, and since the sale
>price was less than a can of drink and a sandwich I grabbed it.
>
>
>Does anyone know whether ?I have picked up the actual rulesbook or some
>sort of acccessory pack?  What other stuff was available for it, and has it
>really been out of print since the early eighties?
>
>Cheers,
>rolfe
> 

Kurt Feltenberger
kurt@blazenet.net



http://www.igateway.com/clients/kurt/mp  Morrow Project Site

http://www.igateway.com/clients/kurt/pj PJ the Welsh Terrier Site

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 20:43:49 -0700
From: "Brannon \"Ben\" Boren" <brannonb@blarg.net>
Subject: Re: The Morrow Project (OT)

rolfe@skie.its.unimelb.edu.au wrote:
> 
> I have heard that this game had some pretty cool rules, and since the sale
> price was less than a can of drink and a sandwich I grabbed it.

TMP has terrible rules, but in spite of that it is an AWESOME game. We
played it using a homebrew rules set, and it would probably work great
with the T2K rules too.
(see how that is sorta Traveller related?)
I keep meaning to run a Morrow Project pbem someday...

> Does anyone know whether ?I have picked up the actual rulesbook or some
> sort of acccessory pack?

Don't recognize it from the vague description, but if it had no title,
you have obviously not got the whole product.

> What other stuff was available for it, and has it
> really been out of print since the early eighties?

Most of the stuff is still available through at least one mail order
web-based game store. If you don't find it with an alta vista search,
drop me a line and I'll try to find the name of it.

Ben

- --
Brannon "Ben" Boren
brannonb@blarg.net
http://www.mog.net/brannonb/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 00:39:23 -0400
From: John H Bogan Jr <jbogan@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: The Morrow Project (OT)

At 08:43 PM 7/8/1998 -0700, Brannon \"Ben\" Boren wrote:
>rolfe@skie.its.unimelb.edu.au wrote:
>TMP has terrible rules, but in spite of that it is an AWESOME game. >We
played it using a homebrew rules set, and it would probably 
>work great with the T2K rules too.

In fact, one of the reasons for MP's decline is because
T2K stole its thunder as the favored "postapocalypse
with real-life equipement genre" game.

>(see how that is sorta Traveller related?)

Heck, just after it came out, I described TNE as
"Morrow Project in space." It even has a "vampire."

What, you thought it was a coincidence that there's
an FF&S version of a Commando V-150 in the RCES 
equipment guide?  ;)

JB

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #646
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Thursday, July 9 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 647



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Tw2K
Re: The Morrow Project (OT)
late 3I naval org.
JIS Ranks
Re: Fleets of the Imperium
Re: Pistol firing bonuses?
Re: The Morrow Project (OT)
System Defense Systems (Again--Sorry)
Al Morai Route Protectors
Re: The Morrow Project
Re: Al Morai Route Protectors
Re: Tw2K
Re: Background Color - Freighters & Liners
Re: Marshall's theories
Re: Reactivating mothballed ships
Re: Does YOUR ship have a Lanthanum Grid?
Re: Pistol firing bonuses
Re: Reactivating mothballed ships

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 19:54:29 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Tw2K

>
>BTW who would one need to get permission from if one wished to put all
>these little TW2K rules up on a web page for the TNEer's who don't have TW2K?
>
Frank Chadwick, IIRC. Besides, for weapon values, they are almost
identical... what you really want is small rules excerpts. BTW, Loren or
MWM, How's frank doing?

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 01:06:45 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: The Morrow Project (OT)

At 12:39 AM 7/9/98 -0400, you wrote:
>At 08:43 PM 7/8/1998 -0700, Brannon \"Ben\" Boren wrote:
>>rolfe@skie.its.unimelb.edu.au wrote:
>>TMP has terrible rules, but in spite of that it is an AWESOME game. >We
>played it using a homebrew rules set, and it would probably 
>>work great with the T2K rules too.
>
>In fact, one of the reasons for MP's decline is because
>T2K stole its thunder as the favored "postapocalypse
>with real-life equipement genre" game.

But there is a big difference between the two...

In MP, you are there to help rebuild civilization, an altruistic and needs
of the many type goal.  In T2K, the goal is to stay alive and off the other
guy before he offs you.  It is a very "Me" centered game.


>>(see how that is sorta Traveller related?)
>
>Heck, just after it came out, I described TNE as
>"Morrow Project in space." It even has a "vampire."
>
>What, you thought it was a coincidence that there's
>an FF&S version of a Commando V-150 in the RCES 
>equipment guide?  ;)

That is exactly what TNE was portrayed as.  Morrow Project in Space.
Unfortunately, everything that was published to support it was more along
the lines of T2K in Space.

Just my opinions.

Kurt Feltenberger
kurt@blazenet.net



http://www.igateway.com/clients/kurt/mp  Morrow Project Site

http://www.igateway.com/clients/kurt/pj PJ the Welsh Terrier Site

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 20:57:32 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: late 3I naval org.

All sources are MT unless individually noted
RbSB= Rebellion Sourcebook
RC=Referee's COmpanion
FS=Fighting Ships of the Shattered Imperium
S9= CT SUpplementy 9: Fighting Ships

RbSB, p 27: Each sector has approximately 1000 ships in it's fleets,
counting Crusiers, Carriers, Battleships, and some escorts. Does not count
Scouts, Auxillaries, support ships.


Ibid: Each numbered fleet has between 2 and 10 combat squadrons, totalling
50 to 200 ships.
S9: Smallest light cruisers run 50KTd, largest armored is 100KTd
FS: all cruisers shown are 100KTd
S9 and FS: all carriers are in the cruiser class ranges, and battle tenders
are battleships equivalents, carriing battle riders.

Destroyers run 1KTd-10KTd, and are "Escorts" according to FS. All the
escorts are in this range in both books. So they are not "Capitol Vessels"
or "Combat Squadrons" for the above limits.

So: We have a minimum of 2x25 ship CapitolRons to 10x50ship Capitol Rons.
Since other sources Include a nominal strength of 12 ships to a Ron, assume
2-10 10-20 ship CapitolRons with matching DesRons attached.

The Auxillaries will be shared amongst the combat squadrons (FS, p5).
TankRons may be separate or distributed.

ScoutRons are variable strength, (FS) as they are a Fleet's pool of all
scouts having been sent carrying messages to that fleet. SOP is to reassign
a scout or courier to the destination fleet upon departure. I figure one
per Capitol Ship plus 2 per world is the baseline.

AssaultRons are ground assault... and specialized. Figure one per High pop
(my SWAG, make no mistake), capable of carying "hundreds of battalions"
[FS].

The forces totals are for IMPERIAL ships, couting Regular, Reserve, and
Colonial squadrons. Colonials are from TL9+, Pop 9+ worlds. [FS]

System Squadrons are not assigned to any fleet. THey exist in any system
with TL9+ and Pop 4+, and are locally manned and maintained. Thus they are
outside our considerations.

So a nominal Numbered fleet might be:

1 BatRon		 6  MTd
2 CruRon		 2.4  MTd
1 AssaultRon		 1.2  MTd
4 DesRon		 0.24 MTd
Auillaries and scouts	 1.5  MTd (scattered throughout other Rons)
1 TankRon		 3.0  MTd <-- 12x 500KTd Tankers from FS
			----------
                	14.34 MTd

Minimal Fleet
1 CruRon		1.2
1 AssaultRon		1.2
2 DesRon		0.12
Aux and Sct		0.5
TankRon (small)		0.5	<-- using smaller tankers...
			-----
			3.52 MTd

A huge Fleet:
2 BatRon		15   MTd <-- one of .5MTd's and one of .75MTd's
2 DreadRons		 4.8 MTd <-- 200KTd Dreadnoughts [S9]
4 CruRon		 4.8 MTd
2 AssaultRon		 2.4 MTd
20 DesRons		 1.2 MTd
Auillaries and scouts	15.0 MTd <-- half total tonnage so far...
4 TankRons              12.0 MTd
                        ---------
			55.2 MTd



Figure about 11-30 MTd per Numbered Regular and Numbered Reserve Fleet.
320 Numbered Fleets and 320 Numbered reserve fleets... 640 fleets at (say
20MTd), around 6.4GTd ... 6.4 E9 Td, roughly, a conservative estimate.

Not counting system fleets, which may add another 1E9 or so in tonnage. [SWAG]

All of this is naval and scout, excluding scout-only craft like survey
cruisers and XBoats. For X-Boats, I'd figure on 3 per segment of the
Express Boat lines, plus 1 scout per planet not Navalized, thus not in the
pools, on X-Mail service to non-route worlds. So, add 110KTd in Scouts, and
probably 50KTd in XBoats, plus a 600Td tender in each leg, adding another
300KTd... chump change, really.[gueses based upon craft sizes and
maintenance and misjump rates, probably 50%low for XBoats; scouts counts
only those not subject to navalization and thus not under naval figures].

SO, roughly 7.5 E9 Td in imperial service. Not counted are Depot Fleets,
which are the mothballed reserve of obsolescant craft.


William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 21:09:07 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: JIS Ranks

>
>Quick question; now that I have my beautiful 4518th patches in hand,
>I've been thinking thoughts about putting them on a spare BDU top I
>have. Has there been anyplace where the rank insignia, enlisted and
>officer for the various branches of Traveller military have been spelled
>out? Or is it by guess and by golly?
>
Joint Imperial Services Rank Symbols are:

O1 to O3: 1 to three small "Imperial Starbursts"
04 to O6: 1 to 3 Large "Imperial Starbursts"
O7 and up: 1 star (not starburst) per grade higher than O6.

Enlisted use white discs on a colored square, in patterns... See the TD
issue on Earth. It explains imperial marine useage of JIS ranks. It also
covers Imperial Marine Uniforms, and the Terran Occupation Force
distinctions and exceptions to policy.



William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 22:47:48 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Fleets of the Imperium

Hello,
>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
>Subject: Re: Fleets of the Imperium
...
>Please note that this mixes rules from two different rules sets. The 30%
>comes from _Striker_, but the government modifiers come from _TCS_. (Or
>are they in _Striker_ too? I forget.)

  No, but the two don't seem incompatible on this point.

...
>The system I propose is that the Imperium gets 1% of GWP in peacetime. On
>the average individual planets spend 2% of their GWP on defense. This works
>out as the official 3% of GWP in peacetime with 33.3% (instead of 30%) of
>that going to the Imperium. Not, IMO, canon-breaking.

  And it fixes the oddity that any world that neglects its' own defense
doesn't pay much for the IN (30% of diddly = ?), or pays more for defending
itself. The latter might work if it's meant to reflect Imperial concern at
worlds overspending to acquire local influence (or local dominance in the
event of a civil war). Perhaps the minimum of 1% should be modified to add
30%/one-third of anything over the 3% average?

        Yours truly,
                Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 23:32:43 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Pistol firing bonuses?

Eris Reddoch wrote:

> The length of the barrel has something to do with the accurracy of the
> shot as well.  Not the aim, but the actual path of the slug.  Pistols
> are inherently less accurate beyond some short range.

Yes, that's why I said 'part' of the reason. And with a modern pistol barrel
that's less important than the fact that rifle and pistol slugs tend to have
considerably different aerodynamic properties, as well.  Pistol slugs are
short and squat, rifle slugs are long and pointy, to generalize enormously.
They also tend to have considerably different velocities, as well. All of
these affect accuracy and range.

> >Finally, quickly aiming the two are completely different; you 'point'
> >a pistol more than you aim it, the reverse is true for a rifle. (I
> >know I'm being a bit confusing here...)
> 
> I don't know if this is true or not, but I'd think "hip firing" either
> a rifle or pistol would suffer about the same aiming penalty.

Well, part of the problem here is we're talking about weapons optimized for
pretty much opposite conditions. Hip firing a pistol, IRL, will be easier for
an experienced pistol shot than hip firing a rifle will be for an experienced
rifle shot.

But pistols are designed for close in combat, hence the shorter barrels: it
makes them easier to draw, carry, and aim at short ranges, it takes less
motion to traverse a pistol x degrees than it does a rifle, which is also why
the sight radius is important...variation from the target point with a pistols
sights leads to a greater error of actual aim point than you get with a rifle,
at equal ranges. 

So the effects are all sort of bound up in each other.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 17:39:28 +1000
From: rolfe@skie.its.unimelb.edu.au
Subject: Re: The Morrow Project (OT)

I Wrote:

>Hi there,
>
>Juist yesterday while crawling through the piles of junk at the local game
>stores stocktake sale, i found a shrinkwrapped beige packet containing 2
>booklets for The Morrow Project.  They didnt have any other title that I
>could see, just a b/w picture of an AFV.


From the answers I have received here it seems likely that I have picked up
the basic rules.  I'll open it up when I get home tonight and see.

There was a book called "The Morrow Project" with more or less the same
"after the war" recovery theme, but this book had mental powers as well as
some tech. It was a ~150 page teen fiction book, probably published very
early eighties or late 70's.  Anyone know which came first, the book or the
game?

(one bit of the story was one of the characters being poisoned by a mutant
snail on the beach.  It was over 15 years ago that I read it however!)


Cheers,
Rolfe

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 04:52:10 PDT
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: System Defense Systems (Again--Sorry)

I usually download interesting discussions and save them as concepts.  I 
did that with the discussions on system defense boats/system defenses, 
but I believe I deleted them the last time through my subdirectory... 
:-<  Don't know how I could do that!  I still have the notes on 
passengers, and I think cargo...

Several of you have systems for determining how much defense a system 
can afford.  Would you either repost them to the TML or send them 
privately?  If you use an example, would you please use the Lunion 
System in the Spinward Marches?

Thanks, and sorry to bring this up again...  I promise I won't delete 
anything else!  :-)

Greg Smith
The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 09:30:21 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Al Morai Route Protectors

Looking for sources...

People on this list have mentioned the Al Morai Route Protectors
(I gather it's a private escort fleet/flotilla). What's the source for this?
Is it OTU?

I'm trying to get a feel for the Imperial policy on privately-owned
warships. I know Oberlindes had to buy and operate their
fully-armed AHL-class Cruiser _Emissary_ outside Imperial Space
to get around the Imperium's laws on demilitarizing warships sold to the 
private sector, but this may have only applied to ships with Spinal or
Bay weapons.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 10:52:34 -0400
From: Michael Kent <mkent@atlantic.net>
Subject: Re: The Morrow Project

Wow, talk about a blast from the past.

I used to play TMP quite a bit, and enjoyed it very much.  In fact, I
once took it with me to sea on the Nathaniel Greene, SSBN 636.  It
helped a lot to pass the time on a long patrol.

I have a fair amount of TMP stuff; the rule books, GM screen, several of
the adventures.  It's probably in fair condition.  I'd be willing to
part with it all, as a package deal.  If interested, email me.  I'll
give you a better inventory, and we can negotiate a price.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 16:09:33 +0100 (BST)
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Al Morai Route Protectors

>Looking for sources...
>
>People on this list have mentioned the Al Morai Route Protectors
>(I gather it's a private escort fleet/flotilla). What's the source for
>this?

The Spinward Marches Campaine. The ships are Gazels, I can't recall how
many they had, but they didn't have many ... but then Al Mora only had 52
or so merchant ships in there fleet.

>Is it OTU?

yup ...

>I'm trying to get a feel for the Imperial policy on privately-owned
>warships. I know Oberlindes had to buy and operate their
>fully-armed AHL-class Cruiser _Emissary_ outside Imperial Space
>to get around the Imperium's laws on demilitarizing warships sold to the
>private sector, but this may have only applied to ships with Spinal or
>Bay weapons.

I think it was all the weapons, probably because the navy has usese for
laser turrets and missile bays, but I am not sure on this, as I don't have
AHL with me.

Ewan

	Ewan Quibell
	Data Communications Technician        The Game's afoot:
	Computer Centre                       Follow your spirit, and apon
	University of Brighton                  this charge
                                              Cry 'God for Harry, England,
	E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              and Saint George !'

                                                    Henry V 3:1
	#include<stddisclamer.h>                    W. Shakespeare

	My spelling is entierly due to dyslexia, typoes and poetic license

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 11:27:01 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Tw2K

In a message dated 7/8/98 22:10:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU writes:

<< BTW who would one need to get permission from if one wished to put all
 >these little TW2K rules up on a web page for the TNEer's who don't have
TW2K? >>

There is an MPGN mailing list devoted to TW2K, just like Traveller.  I was
subscribed to it for a while, but it seemed to be just mostly flame wars.
There is a lot of interest in Twilight overseas, however...Scandanavia and
Poland (DUH!!!)

I dont remember the exact address...most likely Twilight2000@mpgn.com, but the
list manager should be able to tell you if your interested.

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 16:16:17 +0100
From: "Buston, John" <john.buston@eds.com>
Subject: Re: Background Color - Freighters & Liners

[Referring to a 300+ passenger liner and 3000 DT freighter]

>That's an awful lot of passengers.  I don't think that many are possible
>using the vanilla rules.  Yes, you can assume (as with freighters) that
>these are non-pc ships and don't abide by the listed rules.

>However, the question is:  Has anybody designed a ship by starting with a
>trade route and then basing the cargo hold and staterooms based on the
>expected cargo/passengers? These would obviously be specialized vehicles.

The problem I have with this is that the vanilla economics section is
incomplete. It doesn't include the major costs of depreciation and
insurance for example. If you adopt sensible figures for these then it
just isn't profitable to carry freight at Cr1000 per DT in anything much
smaller than a 3000 DT dedicated freighter, at least at TL12*. High and
mid passage rates are reasonable, perhaps even generous, low passage and
freight rates are loss making. 

In other words you have to break some of the vanilla rules to make other
vanilla rules make financial sense (at least to me and I hope to any
merchants or accountants on the list).

You could argue that basic insurance is included in the price of the
mortgage, as a risk premium. This has the advantage of simplicity and
has minimal impact on canon, but it does make the banks profit wafer
thin, and IMO it was already very low.  But you can't ignore
depreciation. As a ship is worth 25% of original price after 40 years,
then annual average depreciation is 1.875%.

As we are discussing a supposedly hard science fiction game, then IMO
the economics should be equally as hard. So a small free trader design
that would satisfy me economically would have to break the rules, and
one that would stick to the rules wouldn't satisfy me economically.
Perhaps we should increase the number of trips per year (32?), or
perhaps increase the price per DT of freight (Cr1500?), or some other
cost saving or revenue generating device?

I don't have a problem creating such ships but my take on what canon to
bend, or reality to ignore, wouldn't be the next persons, so there is
little point posting them to the list. 

* Note that by TL15 the freight figure starts to look bearable. Perhaps
the freight rate should vary by planets TL, say increasing by Cr100 for
each TL below 15?

John

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 17:59:30 +0200
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com>
Subject: Re: Marshall's theories

Mark Seeman wrote:
> I said at the beginning of this tirade that I was going to lead Ethan
> Henry to the Kiwis.  I was wrong.  Ethan Henry was wrong.

Well, I think that's kind of strong, but I'll glad admit that I really
don't know much about New Zealand and that my sum knowledge of Australia
is from having lived there for about 7 or 8 month a few years back (on
university exchange). I really didn't mean any offence.

I'll gladly restrict my comments to Canada, if only to reduce the
potential population of people who can flame me.

In my non-scientific survey of the few dozen people I know, the military
service is a more popular career option in the east that in the rest of
Canada. Coincidentally, but perhaps not correlated, is the fact that the
east is economically depressed compared to the rest of Canada. There are
fewer job opportunities in places like Newfoundland and the jobs that
are there are usually labour jobs, like fishing or working on an oil rig
- - while these are fine jobs (well, except that all the fish are gone and
the oil rigs are deadly), I can't imagine that they look a lot better
than joining the army and learning some potentially useful skills to the
average 18 year old.

<off topic rant>
Canada has all sorts of indirect government-sponsored job transfer
programs. The military could be considered one of these. It's also much
easier to get a job in the civil service if you're bilingual. Oddly
enough, the one bilingual province is also the one that raises the most
political shit - but surely the Canadian government isn't buying
political peace with government jobs, are they?
</off topic rant>

ObTrav #1: Would the Imperial military forces be dominated by recruits
from planets with lower tech levels and lower per capita incomes? Would
there be more recruits from worlds like Regina or worlds like Tarsus?
Since most of the Imperial population is concentrated on a small number
of high-pop worlds, would the distribution of members of the military
match the distribution of the general population, or would it be skewed
towards having proportionally more people from smaller worlds?

If anyone want to reply to this message, I ask that you send it to me
privately, as I feel bad enough about having cluttered up the list this
much already.

Ethan, totally off topic.
- --
Ethan Henry                                            egh@klg.com
Java Evangelist, KL Group                       http://www.klg.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 18:02:32 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Reactivating mothballed ships

Steven Hudson writes:
>...
>>the military spending up to about Cr150/citizen. Whether you like the 
>>idea of an Imperial reserve fleet of 160,000 combat vessels is another 
>>matter. (There is some small support for the notion in the fact that 
>>acording to _Arrival Vengeance_ ships are still being reactivated in 
>>1123, six years after the beginning of the Rebellion, with at least 
>>two more years to go before they are finished. OTOH it requires an 
>>implausibly long view to maintain reserves that will take 8 years to
>>activate...)
> 
>  Wouldn't the Domain of Deneb had a simple lack of a pressing need to
>re-activate ships at the highest possible rate? They weren't sufffering
>significant combat attrition, and there's no need to interfere with their
>own infrastructure w/o a war for those ships to fight, is there?

Norris was sufficiently concerned about an attack by the Zhodani that he
apparently stripped his coreward and rimward frontiers. That is a pretty
good motive to start the reactivations immidiately. Once it became clear
that the Zhodani were not going to attack, the Aslans and Vargr were
alrady taking big bites out of his domain[1]. I'd say that was a pretty
good reason to keep it up until those areas were back under his control. [2]

[1] Never mind that IMO the Aslan _ihatei_ and Vargr opportunists as
    described in CT sources would be incapable of mustering the strength
    to take those areas away from Norris; MT claims they did.

[2] Again, I know that according to MT sources Norris did abandon several
    subsectors to the Vargr and Tobia (his third most important system)
    and surroundings to the Aslans, but that just isn't the Norris I
    recognize from CT sources.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8


 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 09:08:18 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Does YOUR ship have a Lanthanum Grid?

Eris Reddoch wrote:

> The coils aren't expendable.  If the coils are damaged the ship will
> either misjump or won't jump at all.  But, because the coils are
> inside the armor, except at the open bow during jump injection they
> are pretty well protected.

Oh that's just GREAT! :-P I can hear it now, in the Lizard's briefing
room before their run at us:

"Why that's not a hard target. I used to shoot whomp rats in Beggars
Canyon back home and they aren't bigger than that!"

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 09:28:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Cook <markc@peak.org>
Subject: Re: Pistol firing bonuses

Hoo, boy.  This is going to be a long one!  I want to preface what I'm
about to say by offering my credentials: I'm a 42 year-old former Marine
Corps EOD Spec. and a current firearms instructor.  I teach defensive
handgun, precision rifle, tactical shotgun, and tactical submachine gun.
I compete monthly in all of those areas (save for precision rifle, which
is only 3-4 times per year.)

Deligiannidis Nikolaos <nikolaos.deligiannidis@stud.tu-muenchen.de> writes:

> I may be silly, but isn't it easier to bring a handgun/pistol to bear (
> draw it) than a rifle.Maybe it depense from which posture you try to aim
> ????

Remember that the task is to hit your opponent, not to out-draw them.
(The Traveller task system doesn't have what I consider adequate rules
for long range smal arms fire.)  However, I can state with a fair
amount of certainty that if I have a rifle/carbine at port arms,
and you have a holstered sidearm, then for any distance beyond 1 meter,
I'm the one that will walk away and you're the one they'll bury. :^)
Rifles (in general) are not slung unless there is almost zero
chance of conflict.

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> writes:

> We're talking apples and oranges here. It is faster to bring a handgun
> to bear...yes, that's the primary reason handguns exist.

Right, Bruce.  Handguns are, by defensive weapons, designed to be used
at close range (i.e. less than 50m.)  Rifles are offensive, first-strike,
long range weapons.  The two can be used interchangeably, but only up
to a point.

> Finally, quickly aiming the two are completely different; you 'point' a
> pistol more than you aim it, the reverse is true for a rifle. (I know
> I'm being a bit confusing here...)

The "point, not aim" statement is only true at contact distances.  If
you get more than 3m away from your opponent, you'd better be using
your sights.  As an old instructor of mine once said, "Speed is no
substitute for accuracy; you can't miss fast enough to win a gunfight."
We tell our handgun students, if they forget everything else they've
learned in our classes, they *MUST* remember the "3 Secrets": Sight
Alignment, Sight Picture, Trigger Control.  If you practice these
elements of shooting, then you can count on one more statement
to also be true: "Distance is your friend."  If you're a better shot
than your opponent, and you're far enough away, it probably won't
matter if he beats you to the draw.  You just have to hit him first.

Another significant factor is damage vs. time.  To instantly shut
down your opponent, you have to overwhelm the biological machine.
This means deliver major trauma to the body before the shock mechanism
engages.  Studies have shown that highest likelihood of success 
requires a double tap to the center of mass in under 2.5 seconds.
Properly trained, a person can recognise a threat, draw a handgun
from concealment, aim, and fire two shots in that time.  I know
because I do it on a regular basis, and I'm nothing special.

Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu> writes:

> The length of the barrel has something to do with the accurracy of the
> shot as well.  Not the aim, but the actual path of the slug.  Pistols
> are inherently less accurate beyond some short range.

True but probably not a factor.  For ranges inside typical combat distance
(less than 200m), a handgun can be as accurate as a rifle.  Very few
people (myself included) can actaully shoot to the complete accuracy
of a good handgun.

OTOH, the real difference is damage.  At 100m, a 9mm slug is more likely
to wound than kill.  The opposite is true for a 5.56x45mm NATO or a
7.62x51mm NATO slug.

        - Mark C.
          Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy
          EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75
          Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR
          NRA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 mark f. cook * mark cook consulting *  shoestring graphics & printing
 2055 s.w. whiteside dr. * corvallis, or, 97333-1406 * markc@ssgfx.com
 Phone: 541-753-2732      Fax: 541-753-2738       http://www.ssgfx.com
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
       "Where am I... and what am I doing in this handbasket?"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 12:35:55 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: Reactivating mothballed ships

At 06:02 PM 7/9/98 +0200, you wrote:
>Steven Hudson writes:
>>...
>>>the military spending up to about Cr150/citizen. Whether you like the 
>>>idea of an Imperial reserve fleet of 160,000 combat vessels is another 
>>>matter. (There is some small support for the notion in the fact that 
>>>acording to _Arrival Vengeance_ ships are still being reactivated in 
>>>1123, six years after the beginning of the Rebellion, with at least 
>>>two more years to go before they are finished. OTOH it requires an 
>>>implausibly long view to maintain reserves that will take 8 years to
>>>activate...)
>> 
>>  Wouldn't the Domain of Deneb had a simple lack of a pressing need to
>>re-activate ships at the highest possible rate? They weren't sufffering
>>significant combat attrition, and there's no need to interfere with their
>>own infrastructure w/o a war for those ships to fight, is there?
>
>Norris was sufficiently concerned about an attack by the Zhodani that he
>apparently stripped his coreward and rimward frontiers. That is a pretty
>good motive to start the reactivations immidiately. Once it became clear
>that the Zhodani were not going to attack, the Aslans and Vargr were
>alrady taking big bites out of his domain[1]. I'd say that was a pretty
>good reason to keep it up until those areas were back under his control. [2]
>
>[1] Never mind that IMO the Aslan _ihatei_ and Vargr opportunists as
>    described in CT sources would be incapable of mustering the strength
>    to take those areas away from Norris; MT claims they did.
>
>[2] Again, I know that according to MT sources Norris did abandon several
>    subsectors to the Vargr and Tobia (his third most important system)
>    and surroundings to the Aslans, but that just isn't the Norris I
>    recognize from CT sources.

If the Domain could not only fend off the Outworld Coalition in the FFW,
but then carry the fight to them, I would think that the Aslan and Vargr
would be closer to a Gulf War engagement than a WW2 style engagement for
the Domain.  Also, the Domain was just ramping down from a war footing, and
the Cats and Dogs were coming in as oppurtunists.  IMTU, the Cats never got
past the rimward subsectors opposite the Spinward Marches, but the Vargr
raiders played havoc with shipping and raids along the Vargr borders.  This
is even moreso once it is established that the Zhodani are not a threat.  

I agree, this is not the Norris I knew from the FFW.

Kurt Feltenberger

“We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a
habit.”
- --- Aristotle ---

mailto:kurt@blazenet.net

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #647
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Thursday, July 9 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 648



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: The Morrow Project
Re: Al Morai Route Protectors
Re: Background Color - Freighters & Liners
Re: Reactivating mothballed ships
Re: The Morrow Project 
FW: Pistol firing bonuses
Re: Marshalls theories / recruiting (long)
Re: Fleets of the Imperium
Re: Al Morai Route Protectors
re: Marshall's Theories
Re: FW: Pistol firing bonuses
re: Marshall's Theories
Re: FW: Pistol firing bonuses
Vegans
Distance Formula
Another M:IW Design - Different Philosophy
Re: The Morrow Project (OT)
GURPS Traveller?
Re: GURPS Traveller?
Re: GURPS Traveller?
[LONG] BITS/CORE Products first impressions

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 10:26:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
Subject: Re: The Morrow Project

On Thu, 9 Jul 1998, Michael Kent wrote:

> Wow, talk about a blast from the past.

Okay, just one more note and I'll let this go:

The original MP background was written so long ago (1980?) that it placed
the WAR somewhere in the far future: 1995!  On November 18, 1995 (the date
of the nuclear war in MP), we had a MASSIVE End of the World party to
celebrate the destruction of the-world-as-we-know it.

"Yeah... sitting on the porch with some good friends and a good beer,
watching the mushroom clouds rise on the horizon...It just doesn't get any
better than this."  :)

Ben

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 13:40:20 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Al Morai Route Protectors

Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU> writes:
>People on this list have mentioned the Al Morai Route Protectors
>(I gather it's a private escort fleet/flotilla). What's the source for
>this?
>Is it OTU?

Source is Spinward Marches Campaign.  The ships were Gazelle close escorts.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 10:49:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Background Color - Freighters & Liners

Buston, John writes:

> * Note that by TL15 the freight figure starts to look bearable. Perhaps
> the freight rate should vary by planets TL, say increasing by Cr100 for
> each TL below 15?

Alternately, figure that all freight figures are in _imperial_ credits, while
starships are bought with _local_ credits -- which means that in effect, ships
below TL 15 are cheaper.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 11:03:42 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Reactivating mothballed ships

Hello,
>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
>Subject: Re: Reactivating mothballed ships
...
>>  Wouldn't the Domain of Deneb had a simple lack of a pressing need to
>>re-activate ships at the highest possible rate? They weren't sufffering
>>significant combat attrition, and there's no need to interfere with their
>>own infrastructure w/o a war for those ships to fight, is there?
>
>Norris was sufficiently concerned about an attack by the Zhodani that he
>apparently stripped his coreward and rimward frontiers. That is a pretty
>good motive to start the reactivations immidiately. Once it became clear
>that the Zhodani were not going to attack, the Aslans and Vargr were
...
>[1] Never mind that IMO the Aslan _ihatei_ and Vargr opportunists as
>    described in CT sources would be incapable of mustering the strength
>    to take those areas away from Norris; MT claims they did.

  I concur, so that's not a real cause for reactivating ships at highest
speed (after paying to do so, maintenance once online will be 10% again,
yes?). As for the Zhodani, my (perhaps somewhat abnormal) approach would
be to accept that they have enough strength (given a year or two to get
organized) to conquer the unsupported Domain regardless of what I do (due
to disparity of capabilities); beyond redeployments to deter them in the
short-term the best service one can do for your own cause is to not make
choices with serious negative long-term economic effects (assuming that
the real short-term deterrent to the mind-raping bastards is that the
Imperium will obviously will be stabilized back at full strength in a
few years...).

  Given that the overbuilt establishments in the Marches/Corridor already
have a maintenance/support cost probably approaching the allocated IN budget
(3 to 5% of production?), then reactivating all those ships (say, a further
2.5% of GDP times six to eight, or more) will eliminate the possibility of
further investment in the Domain for the foreseeable future. It is not the
TU we've seen to assume that a garrison state will arise, and if it did it
would still face stagnation if not regression as real depreciation occurs.

  I'm assuming that the shipyard capacity and _personnel_ are available, 
the latter of which certainly isn't a trivial consideration.

  FWIW, even ignoring the costs of absorbing refugees and patrolling 
insecure frontiers it seems quite bizarre that the advancement to TL 
16/17 is being made in the RSB.

        Yours truly,
                Steven Hudson        
  
        

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 14:01:54 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: The Morrow Project 

> 
> On Thu, 9 Jul 1998, Michael Kent wrote:
> 
> > Wow, talk about a blast from the past.
> 
> Okay, just one more note and I'll let this go:
> 
> The original MP background was written so long ago (1980?) that it placed
> the WAR somewhere in the far future: 1995!  On November 18, 1995 (the date
> of the nuclear war in MP), we had a MASSIVE End of the World party to
> celebrate the destruction of the-world-as-we-know it.
> 
> "Yeah... sitting on the porch with some good friends and a good beer,
> watching the mushroom clouds rise on the horizon...It just doesn't get any
> better than this."  :)

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!

I had a copy of TMP, & actually got to *PLAY* it once.  Prob was, the ref was
seriously into Munchkinism.  Our party 'leader' took on an armoured column of
M1 tanks with a HAAM suit in hand to hand combat and *WON*.  *sigh*

Main prob I saw with TMP was the emphasis on combat & hardware.  It was
hardware-heavy.

OTOT, TMP makes a decent sourcebook for a 'back from the Stone Age' type TNE
campaign, & I'd certainly use it as such.

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 14:35:04 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: FW: Pistol firing bonuses

Mark Cook wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Properly trained, a person can recognise a threat, draw a handgun
from concealment, aim, and fire two shots in that time.  I know
because I do it on a regular basis, and I'm nothing special.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

"Nothing special"?

Mark started off by writing:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I want to preface what I'm
about to say by offering my credentials: I'm a 42 year-old former Marine
Corps EOD Spec. and a current firearms instructor.  I teach defensive
handgun, precision rifle, tactical shotgun, and tactical submachine gun.
I compete monthly in all of those areas (save for precision rifle, which
is only 3-4 times per year.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I'd hate to invade a planet where the average person was this kind
of "nothing special". <G>

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 11:59:37 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Marshalls theories / recruiting (long)

Hello,
>From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com>
>Subject: Re: Marshalls theories
...
>If you look whre most of Canada's military recruits come from (and I
>really don't know much about the military - this is mostly IMO) they're
>from the east - New Brunswick & Newfoundland - coincidentally, the two
>poorest provinces in Canada.

  I haven't found current figures (let's not kid ourselves, there's
not much call for military history in Canada...), but the figures for
the World Wars probably support your thesis somewhat. However, that
probably fails to take into account the higher proportion of recent
immigrants from the UK (a significant factor in participation rates
in the period); comparing those two jurisdictions with Ontario would
probably be more useful (Newfoundland wasn't part of Canada at the
time of either war, IIRC).

  Nowadays your figures are going to be skewed several ways - job
opportunities (sorry, the army wanted to commission one guy I played
micro-armour with, but with a Civ.Eng degree he had real money to make)
as you mentioned being the obvious one. Culture and access are another:
Halifax probably has a higher participation rate than any population
center west of Ontario (I'd guess the highest in the country). Small
centers don't have recruiters, are remote from same, and don't have
militia units (AFAIK, most of the West is badly underestablished for
Reserve intake).

...
>the oil rigs are deadly), I can't imagine that they look a lot better
>than joining the army and learning some potentially useful skills to the
>average 18 year old.

  I'm not sure about the standards for the Reserves, but IIRC the full-
time Forces require high school graduation, and then they reject the
majority of applicants; it's the skilled slots that are a bitch to keep
filled (that probably sounds familiar to a lot of people on the list...).
The guys I know tend to join up for the money to finish university, or
for the job prospects (learn commo/computer skills, for ex.). I've only
met a few combat arms people, and while they probably weren't economic
cases (one described his goal as to learn how to blow things up, IIRC)
that may have been because they had the economic freedom to choose to
enlist for the fun/adventure.

  That latter of course brings us back to the entire philosophy of having
nobles to perform certain functions, as their economic security relieves
them of pressures that might prevent them from functioning optimally. I
wonder if there are any good 18th century tracts that could be ported
to Traveller as justification of the feudal hierarchy - at least the
material would be public domain...

>ObTrav #1: Would the Imperial military forces be dominated by recruits
>from planets with lower tech levels and lower per capita incomes? Would
>there be more recruits from worlds like Regina or worlds like Tarsus?
>Since most of the Imperial population is concentrated on a small number
>of high-pop worlds, would the distribution of members of the military
>match the distribution of the general population, or would it be skewed
>towards having proportionally more people from smaller worlds?

  Canonically, yes, though one has to start wondering about this. After
all, the Imperial Marines are a small establishment of TL 15 (c.1100)
troops, so why would they bother recruiting below high stellar TL's?
How much time would be needed to upgrade a TL 7 recruit to this standard
(and could he/she/it even get technical skills at that TL)? (the Navy,
however, is a separate issue)

  Another issue becomes which environment (Tarsus or a high-pop world)
has more economic opportunities - if the former then your frontier
worlds will provide a few recruits only, in it for adventure or to see
the galaxy (aka Munich, Hawaii, Cyprus...) at His Majesty's pleasure.
Contrary to what GW might "think" (a charitable term, that), there's
no evidence that street scum are the best recruits, at least in the
opinions of pre-20th century generals that I've read.

  OC, the real answer probably has something to do with the fact that
a technologically determinist char-gen system would be contrary to the
Trav background and campaign style (IMO, anyway).

        Yours truly,
                Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 14:21:34 -0500
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Fleets of the Imperium

Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:

> The first ambiguity lies in just what kinds of escorts are included in the 
> 1000 ship figure and what kinds are not. Are the 5,000 T _Sloan_ class 
> escorts so big that they are counted, or is there a class of escorts smaller
> than a light cruiser (30,000 T ships), but bigger than Sloans?
>
> One could postulate an escort class of around 10-20,000 T, big enough to mount
> a spinal weapon, but too light to be classed as even a light cruiser. A bit
> inelegant, especially since FS states that escorts are ships of up to 5000 T
> and that the presence of a spinal mount is what distinguishes a cruiser, but
> OTOH, are there really no ships in the 5,000-20,000 T range? And this way we
> can define 'combat vessels' as ships with spinal mounts and auxiliaries as
> ships without. 

There's the 10,000 ton escort destroyer ("ED-15" from MT Fighting Ships, or
_Rapier_ from TNE Battle Rider).  It looks like it might be intended as a 
very light cruiser, probably with the same mission as the even lighter 
_P.F. Sloan_ fleet escorts; clear the enemy escort screen out of the way
of your BatRons, and keep them from doing the same to you.

  -- Steve Bonneville

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 15:41:30 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Al Morai Route Protectors

The Spinward Marches Campaign mentioned that Al-Morai had at least several
Gazelle class escorts. They even suggested that the referee can have Al-Morai
give one to the PC's if they successfully thwart Al-Morai's plans.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 15:40:42 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Marshall's Theories

Steven Hudson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  Another issue becomes which environment (Tarsus or a high-pop world)
has more economic opportunities - if the former then your frontier
worlds will provide a few recruits only, in it for adventure or to see
the galaxy (aka Munich, Hawaii, Cyprus...) at His Majesty's pleasure.
Contrary to what GW might "think" (a charitable term, that), there's
no evidence that street scum are the best recruits, at least in the
opinions of pre-20th century generals that I've read.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The authors of the Space:1889 role-playing game referenced a report
from mid-to-late 19th-century British Generals lamenting the poor health
and low strength of the average Army recruit. It seems they were used to
getting towering farm-boy types, but as the industrial revolution
continued the average person willing to sign stopped being a farmer's
second son and started being anyone trying to get of out the urban hell
London, Southhampton and other cities were becoming if you were poor.
Don't have my copy to hand to check the reference, though...but it was
from GDW. <G>

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 13:39:40 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: FW: Pistol firing bonuses

At 02:35 PM 7/9/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Mark Cook wrote:

>I'd hate to invade a planet where the average person was this kind
>of "nothing special". <G>

welcome to Earth.  The standard for basic US Army Infantry is the ability
to engage a target at 50 meters, and hit it, with a M-16A2 rifle is three
seconds.  That's from either the prone unsupported of bench rest.

- --

Douglas Berry
dberry@hooked.net
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry
Domo Arigato, Mr Roboto...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 21:21:51 +0100
From: Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: re: Marshall's Theories

At 15:40 09/07/98 -0400, Walt Smith wrote:
>The authors of the Space:1889 role-playing game referenced a report
>from mid-to-late 19th-century British Generals lamenting the poor health
>and low strength of the average Army recruit. It seems they were used to
>getting towering farm-boy types, but as the industrial revolution
>continued the average person willing to sign stopped being a farmer's
>second son and started being anyone trying to get of out the urban hell
>London, Southhampton and other cities were becoming if you were poor.
>Don't have my copy to hand to check the reference, though...but it was
>from GDW. <G>
>
>Walt Smith
>

  Was it also the lack of physical fitness of conscripts in the 1st 
World war (or was it earlier) that gave us the heritage of  Physical 
Education, and free milk in schools (well in the UK)



Dom
- ---

mailto:dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com  or  mailto:dominicr@bigfoot.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 13:50:58 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: FW: Pistol firing bonuses

Walter Smith wrote:
> 
> Mark Cook wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Properly trained, a person can recognise a threat, draw a handgun
> from concealment, aim, and fire two shots in that time.  I know
> because I do it on a regular basis, and I'm nothing special.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> 
> "Nothing special"?
> 
> Mark started off by writing:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> I want to preface what I'm
> about to say by offering my credentials: I'm a 42 year-old former Marine
> Corps EOD Spec. and a current firearms instructor.  I teach defensive
> handgun, precision rifle, tactical shotgun, and tactical submachine gun.
> I compete monthly in all of those areas (save for precision rifle, which
> is only 3-4 times per year.)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> 
> I'd hate to invade a planet where the average person was this kind
> of "nothing special". <G>

Welcome to the Dorsai. ;-) The men are all away, you're facing the
women, children and old men.

do you 	a) Surrender?
	b) Shoot yourself in the head and get it over with?
	c) Give them your planet in return for your impudence?
	d) All of the above.

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 16:33:35 -0400
From: Steven McKenzie <goldgrif@glasscity.net>
Subject: Vegans

I am looking foir the Stats to the Vegan race. 
I have been playing since the early 80's, but no one seems to have them!
Anyone??????
Steven McKenzie
Lord Leo Aquila
Luceo Non Uro

------------------------------

Date: 09 Jul 1998 17:19 EDT
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Distance Formula

Hello...

I remember wayyy back when, there were discussions on how to
calculate the number of parsecs between systems.  Does anyone
have a good formula for this?  It is more subtle than I thought...

Thanks.

Rob
                          

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 22:37:31 +0100
From: Rob Day <rob@glisten.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Another M:IW Design - Different Philosophy

Vanguard, Vanguard class Battleship (FF&S v2 Akins)                
Designed by Rob Day
                                        
Statistics                                      
Tons: 30000std ( SL Wedge Hypersonic )          
Crew: 880/1035  
Cargo: 50std (0/1 /Hdl:1x35ton0 /Ar:80 [500])   
Volume: 420000m3                
Passengers High/Med: 4/40       
Cost: 55531.732 MCr     
Mass (L/C): 666043t/656757t             
Passengers Low: 0       
Maintenance Points: 30649       
Dimensions: 234.1m x 160.7m x 66.9m             
Troops/Science: 0/0     
Tech Level: 11  
Size: 10                
Frozen Watch: 0         
                                        
Electronics                                     
Controls (/Ar: 150 [2850]): Dynamic, High automation. 6xFibComp (CM:0.4
CP:2.5). Bridge (/Ar:160[3000]).                                
Communications (/Ar: 130 [2000]): 3xRadio (1,000AU, 0.2MW). 3xLaser
(1,000AU, 0MW).                                 
Sensors (/Ar: 140 [2500]): 1xSci PEMS (13.5 [16mkm] Sci, 0.02MW). 1xSci
AEMS (12.5 [5mkm] Sci, 500MW).                          
Survey/Science (/Ar :140 [2500]):                               
ECM (/Ar: 130  [1800]): 2xRadio Jammer (1,000AU, 0.4MW). 1xArea. Jammer
(12, 2500MW). 1xDecp. Jammer (13, 50MW). 1xPas. Jammer (16, 20MW).     
Signatures: Vis:-0.5, IR:1.5 (1.5 at 104039MW, 1 at 12888MW), Act:0.5,
Neu:2, Grav:2                           
                                        
Weaponry
44xHeavy Laser Turret (+3) 1/2-0-0-0 [1,200/21-11-5-3] (LR /Ar:80 [500])
6xPD Laser Turret (+3) 1/4-4-4-2 [1,200/59-59-59-39] (LR /Ar:50 [275]) 
10xMissile Auto 40/40 ( /Mag:400 /MFD:500,000km /Ar:80 [500])       
        w/440 Cmd DL 1d6/2 6.0G12 1000AU
1xHeavy Spinal PA (+3) 2/1-1-1-0 [1,50/31-31-30-15] (LR /Ar:100 [1000])
0       ESA     
30      Sandcasters ( /AV:330 /Cans:15 /Ar:100 [800])   
0       Damper Turrets  
0       Damper Screen   
0       Meson Screen    
0       Force Field     
0       Gravitics       

Performance     2       Jump (3000std/pc fuel /Ar:130 [1900])   
                5.7/5.8 Maneuver (/Thruster:94500MW /Ar:130 [1900]) 
                0.9/1   Contra-grav (8820MW /Ar:130 [1900])     
                        5000kph/5000kph Atmosphere Crus:3750kph/3750kph) 
                9       Power (/Fus:128880MW,1yr  /Ar:140 [2500]) 
                0       Battery 
                7380.9  Fuel (/Purif:90,48MW /Ar:80 [500])      
                0/535/10/0/0    Accomodations (/Ar: 100 [1000]) 
                25776   Life Sup. (/Ty:Ex,Nm /'St /Ar:140 [2500]) 
                2       G-Comp ( /Ar:140 [2500])        
                20 [80] Armor, 58 Structure     
                                        
Features                                        
280xAirlock             20xDecontamination Airlock              
3xElectronic Shop (6std ea. /Ar:100 [800])              
3xMachine Shop (10std ea. /Ar:100 [800])                
5xSickbay (8std ea. /Ar:100 [800])              
1xShip's locker (15std ea. /Ar:100 [800])       
22xPrisoner Capacity (20/0/2 /Ar:100 [800])     
1xArmory (1.79std ea. /Ar:100 [800])            
5xGym (2.5std ea. /Ar:100 [800])                
                                        
10xFull Galley (Cap:108 /Ar: 100 [1000])                
                                        
Small Craft                                     
5xMinHgr (20std, 2 hatches /Ar:100 [800])                         
                                        
Backups                                 
Drives:                                 
Screens:                                
Communications:                                 
Sensors: 2xSci PEMS (13 [5mkm] Sci). 2xSci AEMS (12 [1.6mkm] Sci).     
Survey/Science:                                 
ECM: 1xArea. Jammer (11). 1xDecp. Jammer (11). 1xPas. Jammer (14).     
Power & Fuel:                           
                                        
Crew Details                                    
8xMnvr. 646xEngr. 85xMain. 62xGunn. 50xTrps. 141xCmnd. 35xStew. 8xMed.     

Historical Notes

The Vanguard class battleships were designed as follow-ons to the
famous Iron Duke class ships-of-the-line. They were designed to
specifically address the problems of the previous class, notably the
poor armour protection and low maneuvering capability.
In common with the Iron Duke class, the class displayed typical Terran
design features; a large spinal mount, high levels of automation to
lower crew requirements,  multiple redundant electronic systems and
heavy point defences.
The Vanguard class' design specification required it to able able to
accelerate at up to 6g, together with an armour rating 2 to 3 times
better than that of an Iron Duke.
The Vanguard's designers were able to able to meet these specifications
by employing a novel method of armouring the ships. Instead of a thickly
armoured hill completely encasing the ship, the designers used a much
lower armour-rated hull, and instead highly armoured the ship's vital
internal areas. By sacrificing the weight of the armour over
non-critical systems such as the cargo bay and the hangar, much more
armour could be assigned to critical areas such as the bridge (where the
surrounding armour is >2.5m thick!), life support and the controls.
This design concept became known as the 'Citadel' system.
In addition, the Vanguards were designed with two complete computer
systems, one at each end of the ship, in case damage caused one to
become inoperative. There is an instance in the the archives of a ship
(the Joan d'Arc) taking massive damage amidships which knocked out fore-
aft communications and data lines, but continuing to fight on as 
the fore and aft computers controlled their respective parts of the
ship.
Despite this innovative design system the Vanguards were only produced
in limited numbers ( a total of 12 being built around the start of the
3rd Interstellar War). This was a result of the rapid growth in capital
ship displacement at this time. However, the high speed of the class
enabled a limited use in the cruiser role towards the end of the 3rd
war. 
Compared to a vessel of the Iron Duke class, the Vanguard's
disadvantages were it's higher cost and much larger crew requirement.
The Vanguard's advantages are it's higher speed and greatly increased
armour.

Designed using Andy Akin's excellent FFS2 spreadsheet.

The inspiration for this design came (obviously) from Andrew
Moffatt-Vallance's Iron Duke design.

I've worked on a few other designs using the same Citadel concept. I'm
trying to get a web page organised to put the designs up on. If you'd
like the 'light' versions of the spreadsheet files sent to you to look
at, then let me know.

Btw, if you try to recreate the design in version 2.5 of Andy's
spreadsheet, there is an error in that Life Support Armour volume, mass,
power, and cost are included in the totals shown (I've mailed him about
this).

Regards,

Rob.
- -- 
Rob Day
rob@glisten.demon.co.uk

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 23:02:06 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: The Morrow Project (OT)

 Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net> wrote:
>>In fact, one of the reasons for MP's decline is because
>>T2K stole its thunder as the favored "postapocalypse
>>with real-life equipement genre" game.

Nah. T2K was more of a spin around the tube blowing the hell out of the
aliens coming up it game, using the superzapper when in a panic.

Dom (Happy in the knowledge that Telegames are still releasing stuff for
the Atari Jaguar)
PS T2K = Tempest 2000.
PPS okay, apologies for going really off topic.

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 22:46:45 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: GURPS Traveller?

Hey, Loren!

Is there any new info?  Like an expected release date?  Pointers
to articles in Pyramid that those of us who don't normally buy
should know about?  Updates to the TNS?  Nosy SOB's... excuse me,
inquiring minds... want to know!
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 19:16:35 EDT
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller?

The Steve Jackson games Webpage has it set for Sept.....With a Spinward
Marches sourcebook to follow...

Mike

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 19:08:46 -0400
From: "Ed Leland" <eleland@gte.net>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller?

First the bad news - Gurps Traveller has been bumped to a September release
date.  The second draft of the manuscript should be available for playtest
soon - only Loren can say how soon :-).  The background material is solid,
its just getting Traveller properly translated into the metalanguage that is
Gurps that's the hold up.  SJ games is trying to do this one right, so the
errata level should be down from the previous incarnations of Traveller.

The good news is that the manuscript for the Spinward Marches supplement is
up for playtest and looks pretty good.  More detail on the systems - a
little bit less per planet than J. Andrew Keith did in his Pilot's Guide to
the Drexilthar Subsector or GDW did in Path of Tears, but each system does
have at least a blurb about it.  Significant additional background
material - more sector and local corporations , additional minor races, a
year by year history of the of the sector from 1098-1120 including all of
the TNS stories, and some interesting long term plots.  One campaign and
several shorter adventures and encounters are included.  About 90% of this
should be usable regardless of milieu or system, except for M:0 of course.

It does look promising....

Ed Leland
eleland@gte.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 19:38:19 -0400
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: [LONG] BITS/CORE Products first impressions

At 04:11 PM 6/29/98 -0500, Dom wrote:
<Snip>...
>However, if you can't wait for Bryan to get in BITS/CORE products, try
>contacting Leisure Games in London UK who will mail order.
...
>101 Cargos (probably 2nd edition so different from JTAS25)
>101 Lifeforms
>101 Plots
>101 Rendezvous (locations)
>101 Travellers (npcs)
>

I did this.  ++Good experience!  Leisure Games emailed me the day they
received my order and sent all five items out to me same day.  I just
received the things today, July 9.  I ordered on July 1; they emailed me
confirmation on July 4...  I rarely get this sort of service in-country!

Most/many of you have already seen the 101 series - this was my first
exposure, though, and I was quite impressed!  They're
professionally-produced digest-sized booklets running between 40 and 44
pages long.  101 Plots says it all - "A useful handbook for when the
referee runs out of ideas"...  They remind me of the old Paranoia Press
pubs, except that the BITS products are 1998 TL and are more tightly edited
(that was a compliment to the latter, not an insult to the former).

General comments:  Little wasted interior space; good quality paper; glossy
color covers; indexed and/or contented (not like cows).  Descriptive
materials beyond what I mention below.

101 Rendezvous contains 101 locations for meetings - flavor, descriptions,
etc.  Not pages-long descriptions, but enough for a good referee to run
with on short notice.

101 Plots is inaccurately titled, as it contains 108... - short narrative
descriptions of situations the referee can throw at the players.  I don't
know that I'd be able to run an evening's adventure on the fly from reading
on on-site, but seeing these the evening before would certainly point me in
the right direction.  The plots range from detailed patron encounters down
to short paragraph hooks.

101 Lifeforms contains 102 of 'em.  They're generally (I've read about 20
or so, so far) well thought out, with enough detail in the descriptions to
run on the fly (OK - you may need to make stuff up...)  

101 Travellers is right on - 101 of them!  Much like 76 Patrons;
descriptions are good and they're grouped by the sort of passage they
booked.  Some of the encounters, though, are painfully normal (I think now
of Thom Yood, the voc-tech carpentry instructor and his kids)... Still,
these sorts of encounters can mess with players' heads (He's got WHAT? - an
odd-looking knife - in his bag?  I'm drawing my laser...).

101 Cargos has 104....  This, though, is only a part of the booklet.  A
section on adventure links - cargo-related hooks - I liked a lot.  There're
also sections on cargo codes and the inevitable cargo generation tables.
Quite worthwhile - and a source of the sort of excruciating detail I need
to do battle with my ship-owner player...

As is obvious, I liked the 5 suppliments.  They provide shortcuts for
people like me who don't have unlimited time.  I especially liked the fact
that, including postage, they cost me about $8.50 or so apiece.  It kinda
makes one remember the days when EVERYthing Traveller-related came in a
little black (or other colored) book for about $5.  Oh well - inflation...





Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #648
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Friday, July 10 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 649



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: [LONG] BITS/CORE Products first impressions
Re: Pistol firing bonuses?
Guns part II
T'anks for the memories
Re: The Morrow Project (OT)
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Re: [LONG] BITS/CORE Products first impressions
dropping off :OT
Morow Project et al.
re: Marshall's Theories
re: Marshall's Theories
Re: [LONG] BITS/CORE Products first impressions
Re: Current Games 
Re: the Morrow Project and the pain, the pain..!
Re: Current Games
Re: Tw2K
[Announcement] Website update
Re: Guns part II
Re: T'anks for the memories
Re: Letter of Marque
Possible THUDD fodder
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Re: Background Color - Freighters & Liners

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 18:13:11 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: [LONG] BITS/CORE Products first impressions

At 07:38 pm 7/9/98 -0400, you wrote:
>At 04:11 PM 6/29/98 -0500, Dom wrote:
><Snip>...
>>However, if you can't wait for Bryan to get in BITS/CORE products,
try
>>contacting Leisure Games in London UK who will mail order.

	<snipped rave review>

>As is obvious, I liked the 5 suppliments.  They provide shortcuts
for
>people like me who don't have unlimited time.  I especially liked
the fact
>that, including postage, they cost me about $8.50 or so apiece.  It
kinda
>makes one remember the days when EVERYthing Traveller-related came
in a
>little black (or other colored) book for about $5.  Oh well -
inflation...

	Got the URL handy for Leisure games ...?
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 02:23:44 +0200
From: Deligiannidis Nikolaos <nikolaos.deligiannidis@stud.tu-muenchen.de>
Subject: Re: Pistol firing bonuses?

Bruce Johnson wrote:

> We're talking apples and oranges here. It is faster to bring a handgun
>
> to bear...yes, that's the primary reason handguns exist.
>
> However for long range aiming accuracy, a pistol will lose out to a
> rifle every time, and a large part of the reason is that the sight
> distance is so much shorter with a pistol.
>
> Finally, quickly aiming the two are completely different; you 'point'
> a
> pistol more than you aim it, the reverse is true for a rifle. (I know
> I'm being a bit confusing here...)

>Robert Eaglestone <eaglesto@nortel.ca> writes:
> >
> > If Roland chooses to shoot with a pistol rather than
> > a rifle, should he get a DM for ease-of-aiming?

The question is : what does "ease of aiming" mean?
- -the ease to bring the weapon to aim/point/bear
- -the ease to aim the weapon at a target

If the target is inside the pistol's aiming short range ( example 6m),
wouldn't be it easier to
hit it than using inside the same range a rifle??? What if i have two
target in front of me at
the same range as above!! Which would be better to have the pistol or
rifle?
And would it be reasonable to give DM ( not range or aiming DM 'cause of
sight radius)???

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 20:29:44 EDT
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Guns part II

Dave Golden opined:

>Meanwhile, this doesn't explain the individual 15% miss rate. That's
>explained by the fact that the game designers couldn't stomach the
>reality that the miss rate in real-life combat situations is often
>*80-90%* even at close ranges. 

_WE_ couldn't stomach the fact that every buyer of a game incorporating
realistic combat rules would have demanded their money back and complained for
the next decade that the game was hopelessly broken. 

S.L.A. Marshall's _Men Against Fire_ is the most controversial source for the
"X% never fired their weapons" quotes. SLAM's figures are disputed by some
WWII veterans and modern historians -- others support them. Go figure...

Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 20:29:43 EDT
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: T'anks for the memories

Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) says:

> Frankly, I expect that the optimal shape will be a spheroid or oviod of
> some sort. 

We thought about that. They make some of the most boring, dull looking
illustrations/miniatures you've ever seen. Yecccchhhh! 

Loren Wiseman

Another reason we didn't do it: Bode's _Tongball_ comic strips. We could never
have published _ANY_ illos even remotely resembling spherical tanks in the
'70s without being laughed out of the game shop...or the head shop.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 17:44:29 -0700
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: The Morrow Project (OT)

>Does anyone know whether ?I have picked up the actual rulesbook or some
>sort of acccessory pack?  What other stuff was available for it, and has it
>really been out of print since the early eighties?

While it's been out of print since the mid to late 80's, I know for a fact
that as of a couple of years ago, it was still possible for some games
shops to get everything from their distributers.  I picked up the entire
run in '96 from "Campaign Headquarters" in Norfolk, Virginia (I miss that
store now that I'm back on the west coast).  When I left Virgina a year and
a half ago they were still keeping a complete set, plus, in stock.

				Zane

| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 03:11:35 +0200
From: Deligiannidis Nikolaos <nikolaos.deligiannidis@stud.tu-muenchen.de>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

Sam Thomas wrote:

> How many of you out there can name the various *elite* units that each
>
> branch of the US military has?

Elite units???There are more than enough for everyone :-)

Army :
    Rangers ( if you count them as a unit, and not as recon/pathfinder
experts)
    Elements of Light Infantry Divisions ( I consider them being above
                                    Army Standard in "traditional"
infantry combat )
   Elements of the Airborne and theAirmobile Division ( light infantry
whit special features)
Air Force :
    SpecOps Squadrons ( Nightstalkers ???) ( not realy a elite ground
unit, mainly AirOps )
    Air Security Personel ( Base defense ) or whatever they are called (
I heard they are
                                                         as good
marksmen as the Marines )
 Marines : ( to be already considered above Army Standard,
                        >"all Marines (regardless of MOS) qualify at
more than 50% accurancy
                                                at 200, 300 and 500
yards with the M16
                         Army recruits need only 100 yards
                     and above that Marines ephasize economy of
ammunition,
                     that's a key factor because firing in burst mode,
cause the barrel to climb up, due to recoil
                     so only the first and the second round ?? will be
on target"<
                             according to Tom Clancy's "MARINE")
    ForceRecon
    Marine Snippers
    Marine Epeditionary Units ( SpecOps Capable)
 Navy :
    SEALS
SpecOps Cmd ???
    Delta Force
    Special Forces Groups ( mostly specialist from more than one branch)

    Special purpose mission tailored units could be formed within the
branches or as joint units!

In the end the ammo economy or number of shot fired in each unit ,
depense on the
training priorities. For mecahnized units or units with a short mission
timaspan
ammo economy is not as important as for light infantry units carrying
all their ammo with them
and having to use them over a longer time.

                                            NickD

Many without punishment, none without sin.

The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 02:21:03 +0100
From: "Harvester" <Harvester@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [LONG] BITS/CORE Products first impressions

> Got the URL handy for Leisure games ...?
>-- Dave Golden

www.btinternet.com/~leisuregames/

D.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 21:18:12 -0700
From: "John Toth" <jtoth@erols.com>
Subject: dropping off :OT

I am attempting to stop my Trav access because of National Guard and Moving
Time. Unfortunately my old e-mails went the way of the format when I
upgraded to Win 98 (one too many upgrades to the initial 95 system I guess).

The information is greatly needed because I leave Sat and I really would
hate if my ISP decided to start bouncing mail after I fill up my box :(.

Thanks,
John

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 21:52:11 EDT
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Morow Project et al.

John H Bogan Jr says,

>At 08:43 PM 7/8/1998 -0700, Brannon \"Ben\" Boren wrote:
>>rolfe@skie.its.unimelb.edu.au wrote:
>>TMP has terrible rules, but in spite of that it is an AWESOME game. 

Morrow Project was a great _idea_ for a game. The rules were -- um -- less
than satisfactory. I found the consistent spelling of "turret" as "turrent"
really annoying. GDW and the game club at the U of I played several campaigns
and had a lot of fun. I did a variation which merged Well's "War of the
Worlds" with the MP background -- the look on the players faces when the first
tripod showed up was fantastic. (I only regret they never met the Atomic
Knights : )

>We
>played it using a homebrew rules set, and it would probably 
>>work great with the T2K rules too.

Judging from the mail we received, (and the comments from the local gaming
club) playing Morrow Project using Twilight rules was a popular schtick.

>In fact, one of the reasons for MP's decline is because
>T2K stole its thunder as the favored "postapocalypse
>with real-life equipement genre" game.

I think I would characterize Twilight more as a game set _during_ the
apocalypse, but maybe that's getting a little picky. 

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 19:54:29 -0800
>From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
>>
>>BTW who would one need to get permission from if one wished to put all
>>these little TW2K rules up on a web page for the TNEer's who don't have
TW2K?

Tantalus owns Twilight: 2000 now. They have a FAQ site set up to answer such
questions, but I don't know where it is. Perhaps Rob Miracle can help here?

>Frank Chadwick, IIRC. Besides, for weapon values, they are almost
>identical... what you really want is small rules excerpts. BTW, Loren or
>MWM, How's frank doing?

He just had Command Decision III published. He's working on a set of Ancients
rules. Doing fine last time we exchanged e-mail (which was yesterday).

Kurt F responded:
>But there is a big difference between the two...
>
>In MP, you are there to help rebuild civilization, an altruistic and needs
>of the many type goal.  In T2K, the goal is to stay alive and off the other
>guy before he offs you.  It is a very "Me" centered game.

"Farmer: Hello. Who are you guys?

Recon Team Leader: We are the Morrow Project. We were frozen generations ago
in underground bunkers to survive the atomic holocaust and restore
civilization after we rose, Phoenix-like from our dreamless sleep. Right now
we are searching for one of our pre-positioned supply caches in this region.
Can you help us?

Farmer: Maybe. What ya got in the truck?

Recon Team Leader: Explosives.

Farmer: I see. What's in the bunker yer lookin for?

Recon Team Leader: More explosives."

Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 19:19:36 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: re: Marshall's Theories

>From: Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com>
>Subject: re: Marshall's Theories
>
>  Was it also the lack of physical fitness of conscripts in the 1st 
>World war (or was it earlier) that gave us the heritage of  Physical 
>Education, and free milk in schools (well in the UK)

  There were always physical fitness concerns with recruits (apparently
about 25-30% of US WW I conscripts were rejected on these grounds, but
some were trying to get out), although I believe the UK problem persisted
to the 40's; ISTR an account (Shirer?) of a war correspondent in France
commenting on how British prisoners who grew up during the depression
appeared clearly small and scrawny compared to the German conscripts of
the same age group, who'd had the advantage of better diet from the more
comprehensive National Socialist welfare programs. Of course, the health
benefits were short-lived...

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 20:30:36 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: re: Marshall's Theories

>From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
>Subject: re: Marshall's Theories
...
>The authors of the Space:1889 role-playing game referenced a report
>from mid-to-late 19th-century British Generals lamenting the poor health
>and low strength of the average Army recruit. It seems they were used to
>getting towering farm-boy types, but as the industrial revolution
>continued the average person willing to sign stopped being a farmer's
>second son and started being anyone trying to get of out the urban hell
>London, Southhampton and other cities were becoming if you were poor.
>Don't have my copy to hand to check the reference, though...but it was
>from GDW. <G>

  I was initially referring more to the opinions I've read about their
motivation levels (including a Prussian example). But the decline in 
recruit quality in the UK probably went back to Marlboroughs' time, and
would've gotten worse as underemployment (and presumed poverty and under
nourishment) spread in rural areas with the population boom that supplied
the factories' labour force. Freeholder and gentry participation rates
probably plummeted after the Civil War, although I'd want to check that.

  IAC it doesn't quite apply to Traveller, as any TL 5-6+ culture can
subject its' citizens to all sorts of useful indoctrination without too
much effort. Whether the 3I (as opposed to its' constituent planetary
members) would bother to do so is dubious, as it's not a democracy.
Boot camp, OTOH, could include truly amazing standards of ideological
indoctrination disguised as various programs for ameliorating cultural
differences, promoting harmony, and training on Imperial standard tech
and procedures.

  As it happens Space: 1889 has lots of good resource material, including
combat rules and design sequences for armourclads, sky galleons, and plain
old colonial skirmishes. The only hassle I had was with the (IMO) ahistorical
militarist and expansionist bent attributed to Bismarckian diplomacy, but
this was presumably installed to provide a regular and understandable foe
for the PC's to operate against.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 23:18:00 -0400
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: [LONG] BITS/CORE Products first impressions

At 08:15 PM 7/9/98 -0500, Dave Golden wrote:


<Snip>...

>
>	Got the URL handy for Leisure games ...?



http://www.btinternet.com/~leisuregames/

Thanks to Dom Mooney for posting this originally!




Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 22:34:33 -0500
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: Re: Current Games 

I'm running the MT Rebellion using the West End Games' Star Wars RPG. Space
opera, with rules designed for it. It comes complete with Imperial
Stormtroo -- er, Marines; an evil, black cloaked Lucan (no breath mask,
though), and a big 'ol dreadnaughts chasing after the PC's Far Trader.

Woo hoo! This is actually fun. (AT-ATs have nothing on Trepida grav tanks!
:-)

Ciao,

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 21:49:10 -0600
From: chet-el@juno.com (Chester L Cox)
Subject: Re: the Morrow Project and the pain, the pain..!

Ben sed:  "The original MP background was written so long ago (1980?)
that it placed
the WAR somewhere in the far future: 1995!  On November 18, 1995 (the
date
of the nuclear war in MP), we had a MASSIVE End of the World party to
celebrate the destruction of the-world-as-we-know it."

Am assuming you also celebrated the Jupiter II's mission to Alpha
Centauri last year, right?  Shame about that fellow Smith ending up
missing after the craft launched...

Ben continues:  "Yeah... sitting on the porch with some good friends and
a good beer,
watching the mushroom clouds rise on the horizon...It just doesn't get
any
better than this."  :)

The Surgeon General has issued a warning that alcohol consumed near a
nuclear explosion could lead to a really big boo-boo.

*jeep!
- --Chet

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 00:23:53 EDT
From: RSpake2064@aol.com
Subject: Re: Current Games

currently,

i am in the middle of a traveller campaign with the MT rules set along the
Terran-Thrid Imperium Boarder (in our setting their is not such thing as the
title Solomani for the Humans form Terra... and the Terran Confederation is
the Entire Terran Sphere since the First Terran-Imperium War ended in a
bloodly draw, the Solomani Rim War where Terra was taken by the Imps, and the
Second Terran-Imperium War ended with a Terran Fleet defeating the Core Fleet
and placeing a planet buster in orbit around Captial forcing the Imps to
recognize the Terran Confederation as equals...) where the PCs are Free
Traders out for a buck in smuggling Terran Goods into Imp Space and vice
versa..  

their ship is a Beowulf-Free Trader the SS- Easy Money, and they are made up
of a very interesting group of diverse races and professions...  

an Aslan Male who has a talent for theoretical sciences (and is a great
poet/philospher) who hides his talents behind his puesdo-warrior image (he
earned many battlefield honours in his attempts to over compensate for his
'female' attitudes)

a Vargr Female who has become a control freak as the ships chief engineer...
(she likes powerful governments and lots and lots of order)

a Viliani Male form one of the oldest aristocrat families who is trying to get
away form what his famly is wanting him to become (he threw away a promising
political career, after his many heroic efforts in the Imp Navy)

a Zhodani Female Psi who is gathering information on the Imp-Terran Boarder
situation (keep the Imps occupied with the Terrans, so they wont bother us) 

a Terran Male Smuggler (my character), this 28 year old has the ablility to
make Han Solo look like an amature...  "Hey, Trust Me..."  is his favourite
saying, this makes the rest of the crew start to cry, prey to god and say "the
words you dont want to hear form a kender is OPPS, DID I DO THAT, and TRUST
ME..  then there is the words you dont want to hear form hadrian's lips is
'Hey, Trust Me' or 'I can do this, its simple'...."  "OH Yeah...  Don't let
him any where near the damn Engineering Spaces...  He's a mechanical jinx..."

a Viliani Female, a member of a fallen Shuglli family (read into this.. the
family is bankrupt and on the run form Creditors...) and is trying to make
enough money to pay off her part of the family debts....


hope this helps....

richard

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 00:41:26 EDT
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Tw2K

In a message dated 98-07-09 01:10:15 EDT, you write:

<< Frank Chadwick, IIRC. Besides, for weapon values, they are almost
 identical... what you really want is small rules excerpts. BTW, Loren or
 MWM, How's frank doing?  >>

T2K permissions come from Tantalus, rather than Frank or Loren.
TNE permissions come from me (MWM).

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 17:38:11 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: [Announcement] Website update

I would like to annonce the addition of a section on Ships of the Interstellar 
Wars to my Traveller site (follow the link below)

  <http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/intwars/iwships.htm>

At the moment all thats there is the Iron Duke class and a brief note on Terran 
Confederation nomclamture, but I will be adding more ships over the next few 
days.

I intend to continue designing these ships (I'm hoping that after I get all my 
existing designs up to add one ship per week). However I will only be posting 
my ship designs to the ISBA list in future (hoping to increase its use). Plus I 
would like to discuss just what design features distinguish Terran and Vilani 
ships of this era. I have my own very personal ideas but would like input from 
others. A post on this will follow on the ISBA list shortly.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 22:44:58 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Guns part II

> >Meanwhile, this doesn't explain the individual 15% miss rate. That's
> >explained by the fact that the game designers couldn't stomach the
> >reality that the miss rate in real-life combat situations is often
> >*80-90%* even at close ranges. 
> 
> _WE_ couldn't stomach the fact that every buyer of a game incorporating
> realistic combat rules would have demanded their money back and
complained for
> the next decade that the game was hopelessly broken. 

Not really Loren.  Look at Leading Edge Games.  The most Realistic Set of
Combat Rules around & most people I talk to like it more that any other
system.

> Loren Wiseman

Legate, Militant Jewish Terrorist
Cult 'O Gabe's Holy Avenger in charge of Military Afairs
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"The system does not matter, its ROLE-Playing that matters." - Me to
Acid_Blue, Chuckles, & Rob the Lumberjackman.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 22:45:36 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: T'anks for the memories

> > Frankly, I expect that the optimal shape will be a spheroid or oviod of
> > some sort. 
> We thought about that. They make some of the most boring, dull looking
> illustrations/miniatures you've ever seen. Yecccchhhh! 

What about the Bolo, then?

> Loren Wiseman

Legate, Militant Jewish Terrorist
Cult 'O Gabe's Holy Avenger in charge of Military Afairs
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"The system does not matter, its ROLE-Playing that matters." - Me to
Acid_Blue, Chuckles, & Rob the Lumberjackman.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 03:03:01 EDT
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: Letter of Marque

	Just thought I'd let anyone who wanted to know. That 'Letter of Marque'
arrived at my doorstep a couple of hours ago, and I'm reasonably impressed
with the quick look I took.
  
  	Along with that, I recieved some of the other manuscripts and negotiations
are currently going on with Andy over publication.
  
  
Bryan
HIWG CS

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 04:01:15 -0400
From: Chris Gregory <clgregry@gte.net>
Subject: Possible THUDD fodder

Please excuse me if this topic has been beaten to death on the list,
but... Has anyone
considered the design of Cleon's gunships, used to suppress piracy? M0
says it's 4 gunships
attached to a Patrol Cruiser, but the PCruiser listed in Starships!
doesn't fit the description..
If no one's done it, why not try to design the Cruiser/Gunship combo?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 02:02:38 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

At 03:11 AM 7/10/98 +0200, you wrote:
>Sam Thomas wrote:
>
>> How many of you out there can name the various *elite* units that each
>>branch of the US military has?

>Elite units???There are more than enough for everyone :-)

>Army :

>Elements of Light Infantry Divisions

LIDs are WWI Infantry Divisions with M-16s.  Nothing special about them.
Even the 10th Mountain division is just another bunch of legs.

>   Elements of the Airborne and theAirmobile Division 

The 82nd and 101st don't really have "elite" capabilities, beyond their
tempo of training and the requirement to be Airborne for the 82nd.

You missed Special Forces, Special Operations Detachment Delta (aka Delta
Force), and TF-160, the special ops helicopter unit.

> Marines 

>    Marine Snipers

Snipers are assigned to regular Marine units, so don't really count as
spcial units, but highly trained assets.

>    Marine Epeditionary Units ( SpecOps Capable)

MEUs are regular Marine units that go through a pre-deployment excercise.
Calling them SpecOps capable is a bit of a misnaming.

>SpecOps Cmd ???

I think you are referring to JSOC.

>    Delta Force
>    Special Forces Groups ( mostly specialist from more than one branch)

These are both Army.

- --

+------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
+------------------------------------------+
| "or it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' | 
| "Chuck him out, the brute!"              |
| But it's "Saviour of 'is country"        |
| when the guns begin to shoot;"           |
+------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:13:26 -0400
From: "Buston, John" <john.buston@eds.com>
Subject: Re: Background Color - Freighters & Liners

>> * Note that by TL15 the freight figure starts to look bearable.
Perhaps
>> the freight rate should vary by planets TL, say increasing by Cr100
for
>> each TL below 15?

>Alternately, figure that all freight figures are in _imperial_ credits,
while
>starships are bought with _local_ credits -- which means that in
effect, ships
>below TL 15 are cheaper.

I was assuming T4 Milieu 0 with TL12 local and TL12 Imperial Credits.  I
guess by implication that I was also assuming that most of the people on
the list would be using Milieu 0. Doh!

Those hidden assumptions get you every time ;-)

John

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #649
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Friday, July 10 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 650



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

"Average" Pistol Firing Bonuses
Re: the Morrow Project and the pain, the pain..!
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #647
Re: SpecOps
Leisure Games , UK
Re: Reactivating mothballed ships
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #649
Re: Al Morai route protectors
Re: Reactivating mothballed ships
Re: Reactivating mothballed ships
re: Al Morai Route Protectors
Re: T'anks for the memories
Re: Morow Project et al.
Re: the Morrow Project and the pain, the pain..!
Trepida grav tank (was SpecOps)
Coffee (was : Ports and ship construction)
Re: Fleets of the Imperium

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 04:57:11 PDT
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: "Average" Pistol Firing Bonuses

Walter Smith wrote:
     Mark Cook wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Properly trained, a person can recognise a threat, draw a handgun
from concealment, aim, and fire two shots in that time.  I know
because I do it on a regular basis, and I'm nothing special.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

"Nothing special"?

Mark started off by writing:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I want to preface what I'm about to say by offering my credentials: 
I'm a 42 year-old former Marine Corps EOD Spec. and a current firearms 
instructor.  I teach defensive handgun, precision rifle, tactical 
shotgun, and tactical submachine gun. I compete monthly in all of 
those areas (save for precision rifle, which is only 3-4 times per 
year.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I'd hate to invade a planet where the average person was this kind
of "nothing special". <G>

Walt Smith
- ------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

LOL!!!

Isn't that what it would be like invading the Sword Worlds?
Greg Smith
The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:48:46 -0400
From: "Buston, John" <john.buston@eds.com>
Subject: Re: the Morrow Project and the pain, the pain..!

>>On November 18, 1995 (the date of the nuclear war in MP), we had a
>>MASSIVE End of the World party to celebrate the destruction of
the-world->>as-we-know it."

>Am assuming you also celebrated the Jupiter II's mission to Alpha
>Centauri last year, right?  Shame about that fellow Smith ending up
>missing after the craft launched...

Anyone know the Space 1999 date when the Moon is due to depart taking
Moonbase Alpha with it? And does it happen before the 1999 total
eclipse? No point in booking a trip to Cornwall if the moon isn't going
to make an appearance :-)
John

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 13:31:00 +0100
From: Phil Kitching <Philk@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #647

>Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 16:16:17 +0100
>From: "Buston, John" <john.buston@eds.com>
>Subject: Re: Background Color - Freighters & Liners
>
>[Referring to a 300+ passenger liner and 3000 DT freighter]
>
>>That's an awful lot of passengers.  I don't think that many are possible
>>using the vanilla rules.  Yes, you can assume (as with freighters) that
>>these are non-pc ships and don't abide by the listed rules.

IMHO
You have to assume that regular freight and passenger liners break the rules.
For a start, their routes and timetables should be known well in advance
so that the local representatives will probably have all the spaces on
each flight booked before the ship leaves the previous planet.

Also being a regular trader with history means that people will trust them
to actually deliver the cargo and not skip with it (or kidnap the passengers).

The rules as given are for merchant players arriving unexpectedly, trying
to put together a cargo and passenger list in one week with no long term
contacts on the planet.

I believe that the intention was to ensure that PCs could not just fly
round the galaxy piling up cash without taking risks and that the ships
and trade rules were designed to ensure this.

>>However, the question is:  Has anybody designed a ship by starting with a
>>trade route and then basing the cargo hold and staterooms based on the
>>expected cargo/passengers? These would obviously be specialized vehicles.

The trade rules would not be a good starting point because they
would almost certainly suggest too small a ship. Especially because
this ship is on a regular route with prearranged cargoes and passengers
and would be trusted to arrive at each destination.

However, this was the intention of THUDDD 8.

The answer is that something like a cheaper subsidised merchant wins
everytime because it has the same passenger/cargo mix as a free trader,
is cheaper per cargo ton, but is not so big that the passenger/cargo
rules leave it empty.

>The problem I have with this is that the vanilla economics section is
>incomplete. It doesn't include the major costs of depreciation and
>insurance for example. If you adopt sensible figures for these then it
>just isn't profitable to carry freight at Cr1000 per DT in anything much
>smaller than a 3000 DT dedicated freighter, at least at TL12*. High and
>mid passage rates are reasonable, perhaps even generous, low passage and
>freight rates are loss making. 

A properly designed ship makes cash at 50% loading. If designed with a
route in mind (ie if your 10,000 ton ship is half full, then a 5,000 ton
ship is full) can return the initial investment in about 5 years
(since 5 year morgages cost less than 40 year ones).

I agree that depreciation is ignored (at least by PCs who don't expect
the campaign to last for 40 years), as is loss insurance (since the PCs
tend to be part of the loss)
but there is enough profit margin for the corps here already.

>In other words you have to break some of the vanilla rules to make other
>vanilla rules make financial sense (at least to me and I hope to any
>merchants or accountants on the list).

No, the small ships are designed for merchant adventurers who move
cargos from one planet to another for large profit margins per ton.

They travel with these cargos to ensure they arrive safely and own
their own ships so that they can travel when they want and directly
to the world that is going to make the most money, especially since
time is often a factor.

Typically their cargos are high value and low volume, so they use
small ships for flexibility. Sometimes their cargoes are people.

If they can't find a suitable cargo, they speculate on local produce
markets. The profits are lower, but at least they pay the bills
so that the merchant can try on another planet.

If there is left over space on the ship they might book passengers
or freight. They rapidly learn not to because the passengers die
or stabotage the ship or steal the cargo or hijack the ship or are
disguised pirates. The freight is no better, because it is usually
a fake box containing a bomb, a homicidal robot, hijackers, pirates,
slavers, murderers, terrorists, or just something illeagal on the
destination world.

IMO, trying to scale up Imperial trade from the PC trade rules is
about as accurate as assuming that 1 in 6 of all Imperial citizens
is a Scout because of the draft die roll :-)

<snip>

Phil Kitching

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 05:47:30 PDT
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: SpecOps

Joseph wrote:
>
>Woo hoo! This is actually fun. (AT-ATs have nothing on Trepida grav 
tanks!
>:-)

What is a Trepida grav tank?  Are there stats?
+++++

On the issue of special forces/units...

Another person wrote:
> Marines : ( to be already considered above Army Standard,
>    ForceRecon
>    Marine Snippers
>    Marine Epeditionary Units ( SpecOps Capable)

Need to add the Marine Corps' Air & Naval Gunfire Liaison Company 
(ANGLICO)...  Similar to Force Recon, but prob more highly trained.  The 
mission is different... 

Doug Berry replied:
>>    Marine Snipers
>
>Snipers are assigned to regular Marine units, so don't really count 
>as spcial units, but highly trained assets.

But Doug, he didn't say the Snipers, he said the "Snippers".  Now these 
guys really are special...  They get ahold of every one of the Marine 
Recruits and begin the indoctrination process (after the DI is your face 
of course)...  They remove every strand of hair, and there you have 
it...a jar head (I can say that, as I am one).  Seriously, well, as 
seriously as a typo can be, I have a friend (carpooled together) who is 
a retired Gunny.  Was a sniper.  He was the subject of a write-up in the 
base paper.  His picture was on the cover.  He was proud of it...  Then 
he noticed that the caption talked about Gunnery Sergeant Ismael Cruz, 
Marine Snipper, and the article talked about him doing stuff at Snipper 
School.  Man did we ever ride him about that!

>>    Marine Epeditionary Units ( SpecOps Capable)
>
>MEUs are regular Marine units that go through a pre-deployment 
>excercise. Calling them SpecOps capable is a bit of a misnaming.

It a bit of a misnomer, but they have other capabilities than the 
standard MEU, and therefore are SOC.  They have some other equipment and 
receive some additional training.

>I think you are referring to JSOC.

I remember when these guys came on board our ship when we were floating 
of the coast of Beruit in 85 following the hijacking of the TWA 
airliner...  Plans were being made for a permissive NEO (the red forces 
covered the map so nonpermissive was right out.  Seems everyone had 
their own ZSU!)


Greg Smith
The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 08:51:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mathew Harelick <matth@CYBERNEX.NET>
Subject: Leisure Games , UK

Hi: 

Does Leisure Games have a URL? 


Matthew S. Harelick
http://www2.cybernex.net/~matth
matth@cybernex.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 14:58:00 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Reactivating mothballed ships

Steven Hudson writes:

>>>Wouldn't the Domain of Deneb had a simple lack of a pressing need to
>>>re-activate ships at the highest possible rate?

>>Norris was sufficiently concerned about an attack by the Zhodani that he
>>apparently stripped his coreward and rimward frontiers. That is a pretty
>>good motive to start the reactivations immidiately. Once it became clear
>>that the Zhodani were not going to attack, the Aslans and Vargr were
>...
>>[1] Never mind that IMO the Aslan _ihatei_ and Vargr opportunists as
>>    described in CT sources would be incapable of mustering the strength
>>    to take those areas away from Norris; MT claims they did.
> 
>I concur, so that's not a real cause for reactivating ships at highest
>speed (after paying to do so, maintenance once online will be 10% again,
>yes?).

Yes, but if things return to less-than-full crisis conditions in a year or
two (and to assume that we have to rewrite canon; I for one can't
reconcile the abandonment of several subesectors of the Domain with an
attitude of business as usual. Norris might abandon some of his people
if he was forced by lack of resources to concentrate on protecting the
rest, but I can't see him doing it if he wasn't stretched to the limit),
why reactivate anything at all six years later?

>As for the Zhodani, my (perhaps somewhat abnormal) approach would be to
>accept that they have enough strength (given a year or two to get organized)
>to conquer the unsupported Domain regardless of what I do (due to disparity
>of capabilities); beyond redeployments to deter them in the short-term the
>best service one can do for your own cause is to not make choices with
>serious negative long-term economic effects (assuming that the real
>short-term deterrent to the mind-raping bastards is that the Imperium will
>obviously will be stabilized back at full strength in a few years...).

I agree that as the months go by and the Zhodani remain quiscent, Norris
might begin to reconsider the full-scale mobilisation. But not to the
point of ignoring the Aslans and the Vargr.

Oh, and another thought just struck me: Norris' loyalties. Norris is a loyal
man. The canonical explanation why he didn't send fleets to the Imperial
core is that they were needed at home; in other words, his loyalty to his
subjects overrode his loyalty to Strephon. But if his fleets are not all
needed at home, then what? Somehow I can't see Norris go back to a
peacetime level of expenditures while the Imperium is kilkennying itself.

>Given that the overbuilt establishments in the Marches/Corridor already
>have a maintenance/support cost probably approaching the allocated IN budget
>(3 to 5% of production?),

If my analysis is reasonably correct, the active fleet in the Domain is only
consuming about 1.5% of production. That was the reason I proposed that there
was a huge lot of mothballed ships absorbing about half the total defense
budget. (Having the Domain assume the cost of supporting some of the Corridor
fleets won't help a whole lot, since 3 or 4 regular fleets is only about 1%
of the total Domain budget).

>then reactivating all those ships (say, a further 2.5% of GDP times six to
>eight, or more)

The figure of a mothballed fleet 8 times bigger than the active fleet was
base on the fact that that would allow the total reactivated fleet to be
supported by 15% of total production, the maximum allowed by _Striker_.
I would assume that this figure cannot be kept up indefinitely. I also
assume (since there are no rules on the subject) that a society can (just)
keep up an expenditure of 12%. This is again based on ther assumption that
the base figure from _TCS_ represents 10%; two of the governments would
then have peacetime expenditures equal to 12%.   

>  I'm assuming that the shipyard capacity and _personnel_ are available, 
>the latter of which certainly isn't a trivial consideration.

Certainly not, but it is most critical in the short run. With six years
of prepartation time the domain should be able to man everything they
reactivate. Yet we are told that the reactivations are scheduled for
another two years...
 
One possibility that just struck me is that if Imperial naval spending is
only 1/3rd of that of the _TCS_ pocket empires, then their naval shipyard
capacity may also be only 1/3rd of the _TCS_ figures. THat would make the
Trin shipyard capacity 4 million tons instead of 12 million, which will
help quite a lot.

Except... It seems to me that the Imperials would be able to expand their
shipyard capacity once the war started...



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 14:59:08
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #649

>From: Chris Gregory <clgregry@gte.net>
>Subject: Possible THUDD fodder
>
>Please excuse me if this topic has been beaten to death on the list,
>but... Has anyone
>considered the design of Cleon's gunships, used to suppress piracy? M0
>says it's 4 gunships
>attached to a Patrol Cruiser, but the PCruiser listed in Starships!
>doesn't fit the description..
>If no one's done it, why not try to design the Cruiser/Gunship combo?
>

Personally, I would use the excellent fighters from Svennson Small Craft -
about 4 gees, armed with a laser in the 250 MJ range and capable of
mounting a couple of missiles.

Designs available on request.

One of these days I have to pull my finger out and build the 600t, jump-3
disk-shaped Escort Carrier for them.

>From: "Buston, John" <john.buston@eds.com>
>Subject: Re: Background Color - Freighters & Liners
>
>>Alternately, figure that all freight figures are in _imperial_ credits,
>while
>>starships are bought with _local_ credits -- which means that in
>effect, ships
>>below TL 15 are cheaper.
>
>I was assuming T4 Milieu 0 with TL12 local and TL12 Imperial Credits.  I
>guess by implication that I was also assuming that most of the people on
>the list would be using Milieu 0. Doh!
>
>Those hidden assumptions get you every time ;-)

Sort of. TL11 is just dandy for building jump-2 freighters, and there are a
couple of 'magic' technologies at TL12 (nuke dampers and meson screens)
that TL11 and below just cant build.

If you assume the ICr is a starport A, TL12 currency, then the exchange
rate from the ICr to 11 will be more extreme than from, say, TL15 to TL14.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 15:09:04 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Al Morai route protectors

Walter Smith writes:

>People on this list have mentioned the Al Morai Route Protectors
>(I gather it's a private escort fleet/flotilla). What's the source for this?
> 
>I'm trying to get a feel for the Imperial policy on privately-owned
>warships. I know Oberlindes had to buy and operate their fully-armed
>AHL-class Cruiser _Emissary_ outside Imperial Space to get around the
>Imperium's laws on demilitarizing warships sold to the private sector,
>but this may have only applied to ships with Spinal or Bay weapons.

I'd say that was quite likely.

Ewan Quibell replied:

>The Spinward Marches Campaign. The ships are Gazelles, I can't recall how
>many they had, but they didn't have many ... but then Al Mora only had 52
>or so merchant ships in there fleet.

They had four Gazelles. If I didn't get my sums wrong, their cost works out
to 3% of the cost of their merchant fleet. The article didn't explain how
four ships actually went about protecting 52 merchants ships jumping back
and forth between 50 different systems.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 15:17:10 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Reactivating mothballed ships

Kurt Feltenberger writes:

>IMTU, the Cats never got past the rimward subsectors opposite the Spinward
>Marches,

"The Buffer Zone" as it is called IMTU. For centuries the Imperium had had
a policy of discouraging Aslan _ihatei_ from encroaching upon the Buffer
Zone. With the Rebellion the _ihatei_ got the chance to move into it, but
they never had a chance of crossing into Imperial space (except as oath-
sworn, taxpaying settlers). And why would they when they had four subsectors
worth of much weaker neutral systems to play with?

>...but the Vargr
>raiders played havoc with shipping and raids along the Vargr borders. 

Raiding is one thing (and difficult enough), but pushing Norris out of
several subsectors is unbelivable.

>This
>is even more so once it is established that the Zhodani are not a threat.  
> 
>I agree, this is not the Norris I knew from the FFW.

I'm glad to see that i'm not alone in my opinions. :-)
 

      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "A  subsector  official  pompously states that the
        subsector  armed  forces  have  four Kinunir class
        ships in service,  each with enough troop strength
        to put down any military operations that threathen
        the peace of the Imperium."

                        ---Adventure 1, The Kinunir

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:15:01 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Re: Reactivating mothballed ships

Regarding why it took so long to reactivate the Azhanti High Lightnings
in the last MT Adventure _Arrival Vengeance_:

IIRC, these ships weren't being reactivated for use in the Regency
fleet - weren't they being reactivated for transfer to friendly Aslan?

Lack of trained Human-Aslan liaison people (how many humans can
show an Aslan male how to work the spinal mount without getting
into a duel?) may have limited how many ships per year they wanted
to release. There may have been a spare parts problem - these were
old ships. Most important, Norris may have had a dozen more pressing
things to do with his personell and resources than get these ships
transferred immediately.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:25:06 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Al Morai Route Protectors

Hans Rancke wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
They had four Gazelles. If I didn't get my sums wrong, their cost works out
to 3% of the cost of their merchant fleet. The article didn't explain how
four ships actually went about protecting 52 merchants ships jumping back
and forth between 50 different systems.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I'd hazard a guess that they only escorted merchant ships that were:
A) Carrying unusually valuable cargoes compared to the rest of the
Al Morai fleet. This would include high-publicity cargoes, the loss of
which would harm Al Morai's reputation.
B) Performing exploratory trade in unknown areas.
C) Trading at Amber Zones where the presence of an armed vessel
would make a difference.
D) Trading in star systems that had suffered recent losses of ships
to Corsairs, Commerce Raiders or "Unexplained Disappearances".

In case D, I could see Al Morai restricting or suspending trade
operations for the area in question - unless the prospect of profits
from trading in the middle of a shooting war pushes their greed over
their caution.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 23:21:23 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: T'anks for the memories

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) says:
>
>> Frankly, I expect that the optimal shape will be a spheroid or oviod of
>> some sort. 
>
> We thought about that. They make some of the most boring, dull looking
> illustrations/miniatures you've ever seen. Yecccchhhh! 

Sorry about that. But consider how "boring" modern subs are. :-)

> Another reason we didn't do it: Bode's _Tongball_ comic strips. We
> could never have published _ANY_ illos even remotely resembling
> spherical tanks in the '70s without being laughed out of the game
> shop...or the head shop.

I've got some of those somewhere. Might be fun as an encounter. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 23:23:17 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Morow Project et al.

In mail you write:

> Morrow Project was a great _idea_ for a game. The rules were -- um --
> less than satisfactory. I found the consistent spelling of "turret"
> as "turrent" really annoying. GDW and the game club at the U of I
> played several campaigns and had a lot of fun. I did a variation
> which merged Well's "War of the Worlds" with the MP background -- the
> look on the players faces when the first tripod showed up was
> fantastic. (I only regret they never met the Atomic Knights : )

Oh lord, another Atomic Knights fan! 

I've got some of those in my comic collection somewhere. 

Another good "after disaster" comic is Gold Key's "Mighty Samson". 

And their "Space Family Robinson"/"Lost in Space" comics would make a
decent encounter. Hmmm. I may have to try designing the shuttles and
the station...

> "Farmer: Hello. Who are you guys?
>
> Recon Team Leader: We are the Morrow Project. We were frozen generations ago
> in underground bunkers to survive the atomic holocaust and restore
> civilization after we rose, Phoenix-like from our dreamless sleep. Right now
> we are searching for one of our pre-positioned supply caches in this region.
> Can you help us?
>
> Farmer: Maybe. What ya got in the truck?
>
> Recon Team Leader: Explosives.
>
> Farmer: I see. What's in the bunker yer lookin for?
>
> Recon Team Leader: More explosives."

I actually helped a friend set up some more reasonable supply caches.
And he wanted some sort of "leftover" weapons system to give the
players trouble. So I told him about the Thor kinetic kill weapon
project. And showed him the pictures of warheads re-entering from an
issue of Scientific American (I swear, they look like the biggest,
nastiest *energy weapons* you've ever seen :-)

I never did hear how the players reacted.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 23:32:28 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: the Morrow Project and the pain, the pain..!

In mail you write:

> Ben sed:

>> "The original MP background was written so long ago (1980?) that it
>> placed the WAR somewhere in the far future: 1995!  On November 18,
>> 1995 (the date of the nuclear war in MP), we had a MASSIVE End of
>> the World party to celebrate the destruction of the-world-as-we-know
>> it."

> Am assuming you also celebrated the Jupiter II's mission to Alpha
> Centauri last year, right?  Shame about that fellow Smith ending up
> missing after the craft launched...

Would you happen to have a *date* for the launch of the Jupiter II? I'm
collecting such "history that wasn't" dates.

And does anyone recall what date next year Moonbase Alpha will have
that big accident?

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:19:32 -0600
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: Trepida grav tank (was SpecOps)

>What is a Trepida grav tank?  Are there stats?

The standard TL 14 grav tank of the Imperium (as of MT, at least),
companion to the TL 14 Astrin APC. Both detailed in _Rebellion Sourcebook_
and DGP's _101 Vehicles_. The tank on the cover of FF&S1 and _101
Vehicles_. A quick look at a T4 book (the title of which I do not recall)
had an illo of a grav tank looking suspiciously like a Trepida running down
some troops.

I think it was detailed, in several configurations, in a TNE sourcebook as
well. The tank illustrated in the main TNE book is *not* a Trepida, at
least according to _101 Vehicles_, in which this was a TL 12 grav tank
popular with mercs (the name of which I cannot remember).

Ciao,

Joseph R. Dietrich
- -- he who is forever grateful to the gentleman that posted illos and MT
stats for the Plankwell class and other such venerable but OOP designs on
the web.
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 10:55:07 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Coffee (was : Ports and ship construction)

>>Besides, trying to keep the kiwi fruit exclusive to New Zealand would
>have
>>required a level of government opression unlikely to be tolerated by the
>>populace, as the kiwi trees would have to be declared state property. 
>
>Just make it illegal to export cuttings, seed, etc. This would make it
>hard
>to export enough to make the venture profitable.
>
>>Fruitless, as well, because if nothing else, you're exporting tons of
>kiwi
>>seed with the fruit.
>
>However the seed need not be fertile.

Which is, incidentally, why coffee is roasted before being drunk. The
Arabs parched or roasted the beans so that no one coould break their
coffee monopoly. Didn't work (someone smuggled out the green beans), but
the taste is still with us.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 10:26:16 -0500
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Fleets of the Imperium

I've looked over the CT and MT "Fighting Ships" supplements, and I've got
another comment about the question of escort ships and sector fleet size:

Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:

> The first ambiguity lies in just what kinds of escorts are included in the 
> 1000 ship figure and what kinds are not. Are the 5,000 T _Sloan_ class 
> escorts so big that they are counted, or is there a class of escorts smaller
> than a light cruiser (30,000 T ships), but bigger than Sloans?

The confusion here is partly generated because CT's _Supplement 9: Fighting 
Ships_ and MT's _Fighting Ships of the Shattered Imperium_ disagree on what
an "Escort" is.  In CT, an escort is a ship of up to 5000 tons, covering 
everything from a 300/400 ton _Gazelle_ close escort to something like the
5000 ton _PF Sloan_ fleet escort, and including all the destroyer-escorts
and destroyers and everything else in between.

In MT, on the other hand, escorts *start* with a ship essentially identical
to the _PF Sloan_ (the "EM-15" missile escort) and work their way up to a
20,000 ton monster that's the size of a small cruiser, basically filling in
the 5-20 kton gap.  I didn't think to see if any of the "escorts" had a
spinal mount; the 10,000 ton "ED-15" _Rapier_ doesn't.

I think that the intention was that the MT escorts (from 5000 to 20,000 
tons) should be counted in the "1000 ships per sector fleet" figure, but
not the smaller ones.  Then we count:

  * Battleships (includes dreadnoughts, battleriders, battletenders)
  * Cruisers (anything else with a spinal mount, plus fighter carriers)
  * Fleet Escorts (any non-spinal mount fighting ship 5000 tons or over)

and ignore auxiliaries, including scouts, light escorts, assault transports,
tankers, most non-starships, fleet couriers, and so on.  

The new pea-shooter grade spinal mounts that started showing up on small
ships in TNE mess up this picture a little.  By "spinal mount", I mean
something more like the large weapons from CT/MT.

  -- Steve Bonneville

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #650
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Friday, July 10 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 651



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Morow Project et al.
Re: Reactivating mothballed ships
Special Effects (was re: Morrow Project)
Space 1999 Dates..?
Starship Designs
Re: SpecOps
Re: SpecOps
Norris postion (was Reactivating mothballed ships)
Nuclear Damper Questions
Re: SpecOps
Re: Nuclear Damper Questions
Re: Marshall's theories
Ease of Aiming
Damaged Jump Grids
RW Elite Units
Grav Belt Skill (was: Re: RW Elite Units)
Re: Reactivating mothballed ships
Re: Al Morai route protectors
Re: Reactivating mothballed ships

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 08:35:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
Subject: Re: Morow Project et al.

> > "Farmer: Hello. Who are you guys?
> >
> > Recon Team Leader: We are the Morrow Project. We were frozen generations ago
> > in underground bunkers to survive the atomic holocaust and restore
> > civilization after we rose, Phoenix-like from our dreamless sleep. Right now
> > we are searching for one of our pre-positioned supply caches in this region.
> > Can you help us?
> >
> > Farmer: Maybe. What ya got in the truck?
> >
> > Recon Team Leader: Explosives.
> >
> > Farmer: I see. What's in the bunker yer lookin for?
> >
> > Recon Team Leader: More explosives."

In our MP game our supply caches contained (GASP!) rebuilding supplies.
The lists were very funny to read:

20 cases nails (5,000/case)
50 cases diapers (250/case - assorted sizes)
10 cases ball point pens (500/case)
5 bullhorns
40 bundles of wool blankets (10/bundle)
10 cases American Flags (20/case)
20 cases Morrow Project Flags (20/case)

etc...  This would go on for *pages*.

And of course, some explosives  ;)

Ben

PS: Okay, I lied about the last post being my last post about this... so
sue me...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 11:41:36 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Reactivating mothballed ships

In a message dated 7/9/98 10:58:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca writes:

<< >>  Wouldn't the Domain of Deneb had a simple lack of a pressing need to
 >>re-activate ships at the highest possible rate?  >>

I think it is possible that Norris might have seen the writing on the
wall...is it possible that he decided realitively early that whoever won the
Rebellion, it was not going to be a return to a pre-war Imperium?  Maybe he
figured that Lucan stood a fair chance of winning over Dulinor, and was going
to come after the Domain next.   Maybe he figured that he was going to have to
be the white knight after the others beat themselves to death.  And is it
possible, Norris having been ex-Naval Int, that he some knowledge of the
Imperiums secret weapons programs?  I'm not saying that he specifically knew
about Virus, for example, but other programs???  (Actually, upon further
reading of Survival Margin, it does seem to me that Norris acted incredibly
fast and decisivly in sealing the border off...)

Has anyone else ever looked at this possibility?  We know that at least one
scientist fled (to Dulinor).  Maybe more than one (in a different direction?)

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 12:01:13 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Special Effects (was re: Morrow Project)

Leonard Erikson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I actually helped a friend set up some more reasonable supply caches.
And he wanted some sort of "leftover" weapons system to give the
players trouble. So I told him about the Thor kinetic kill weapon
project. And showed him the pictures of warheads re-entering from an
issue of Scientific American (I swear, they look like the biggest,
nastiest *energy weapons* you've ever seen :-)

I never did hear how the players reacted.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I know there are people on the list quite conversant with ideas for
advanced weaponry in the Traveller universe. Most of these weapons
will never be in the hands of player characters, and if they are ever
used directly on the PC's you'll be rolling up new PC's.

This doesn't mean the PC's won't see these weapons used. They can
add quite a bit of color to an adventure that happens in or near a war
zone, or can be the superweapon of a terrorist attack. But to make them
work as a GM, we need to know what they'll look like on the big screen.

Orbital-dropped Kinetic Kill weapons (Thor's Hammer and such):
Do these tire-irons (or telephone poles) fall too fast to be seen with the
naked eye? Will they look like energy bolts (due to re-entry heat)?
What kind of explosion do you get when one hits a tank? How about
when a scattering of them hit a field or plain old dirt?
How close can the GM drop these without killing the PC's?

Fusion Guns: White-hot, yellow, red? Straight-line bolts, or streams
of blobs (for the rapid-pulse model)? How bright are they at night when
fired - does a single grav tank firing a fusion gun light up the night?
What kind of sound do fusion guns make - sharp cracking sounds?
Thunder-like rumbles? 

Particle Beams: I've heard these described as straight-line lightning
bolts - blue-white? How bright? What kind of explosion when they
smack a building? How close can the GM shoot these things to the
PC's before we start getting suspension of disbelief problems?
What kind of sound - a hiss? A crack?

Anti-Laser Aerosols: Do these look like regular smokescreens, perhaps
with a funny iridescence to them? What happens if a fog of this passes
over you? Coughing, irritated eyes just like smoke, or something worse?
What color are they? What happens when a laser hits the cloud, is it
backlit like a cloud in a thunderstorm? Can you get cooked by laser
scatter from the big beamer that's trying to zap your APC through a
cloud, if you're nearby when it happens?

Good descriptions are so essential to role-playing games - giving the
players a good feel for what the weapon's effects look like is probably
as (or even more) important than getting the stats down to the last
cubic centimeter.

That's also why I love deckplans & sketches - the stats are needed to
make the ships consistent with each other, but they're not really a
_starship_ until we've got deckplans to run around on!!  <g>


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 17:08:22 +0100
From: "CHARLES WALKER" <cnw@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Space 1999 Dates..?

Hi, someone wanted the Date Moonbase Alpha had its little accident, well it
is / was / will be September 9th 1999


Nick.
Behold,  his feet leave tracks in the sands of time,
and Death walks at his left hand...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 12:10:27 -0400
From: "Svenson, Gregory (FL51)" <gsvenson@space.honeywell.com>
Subject: Starship Designs

I have added a number of starship designs to my Svenson Small Craft Products
page for anyone who is interested:

URL: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/5776/sscproducts.html

Greg Svenson
gsvenson@space.honeywell.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 10:59:49 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: SpecOps

In mail you write:

>>I think you are referring to JSOC.
>
> I remember when these guys came on board our ship when we were floating 
> of the coast of Beruit in 85 following the hijacking of the TWA 
> airliner...  Plans were being made for a permissive NEO (the red forces 
> covered the map so nonpermissive was right out.  Seems everyone had 
> their own ZSU!)

NEO? ZSU?

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 14:45:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael and MJ Houghton <herveus@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: SpecOps

Howdy!
> In mail you write:
> 
> >>I think you are referring to JSOC.
> >
> > I remember when these guys came on board our ship when we were floating 
> > of the coast of Beruit in 85 following the hijacking of the TWA 
> > airliner...  Plans were being made for a permissive NEO (the red forces 
> > covered the map so nonpermissive was right out.  Seems everyone had 
> > their own ZSU!)
> 
> NEO? ZSU?
Noncombatant Evacuation Operation
ZSU = Soviet designator for Anti-Aircraft Artillery (eg, ZSU-37 = quad-37mm 
tracked mount (very nasty) (I think I got the number right))
> 
> -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
> 
yours,
Michael

- -- 
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@access.digex.net  | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
                          | http://www.access.digex.net/~herveus/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 11:47:01 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Norris postion (was Reactivating mothballed ships)

Regarding Norris' non-intervention in the civil war, my take was
that Norris was loyal to the _Imperium_ and not any faction
vying for power (all of which were tainted one way or another,
even the Strephon faction had questions about whether it was
really Strephon).  My guess is that, even given the lack or resources,
he would (unless the Strephon can prove himself legit) have
the attitude that he will wait until someone can unify the
Imperium and, in the meantime, avoid contributing to the loss
of life involved.

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 11:49:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Nuclear Damper Questions

Hm...I was playing around with some ideas with nuclear dampers, and had some
questions which the list might be able to answer:

1)  Can a nuclear damper shut down a fusion reactor (on someone else's ship,
presumably)?  Given that TL 12+ fusion reactors include their own nuclear
dampers to accelerate the fusion process, I can see how it might be protected,
but presumably TL 11- could be shut off easily, and presumably even a TL 12+
reactor could be overloaded.
2)  Assuming reactors _can_ be shielded, what about using a damper box to
shield nuclear weapons from dampers?
3)  How much area does a damper cover?
4)  If you use a damper to accelerate nuclear decay, does radioactive decay
still occur at normal decay energies (in which case using an accelerator on
radioactive materials could be highly dangerous)?  If not, it has somewhat
unfortunate consequences in terms of conservation of energy.
5)  How much does a damper accelerate/decelerate decay?  

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 12:03:40 +0000
From: edjs@bitslayer.net
Subject: Re: SpecOps

> From:          "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
> Date:          Fri, 10 Jul 1998 05:47:30 PDT
> 
> What is a Trepida grav tank?  Are there stats?

   The Trepida is the standard Imperial grav tank starting in 1109.  Stats 
are available for MT and FF&S1 (including post-Collapse modifications) that 
I've seen.  TL14, 10 displacement tons, mounting a big fusion gun, and the 
equivalent of 2.6 m of steel armour on the front (half that on the other 
faces).  Capable of fast-subsonic speeds in an atmosphere.  Did you want any 
particular set of stats?


- --
Edward Swatschek
edjs@bitslayer.net - edjs@mindlink.net - ICQ 2684960
http://home.mindlink.net/edjs/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 15:24:07 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: Nuclear Damper Questions

And on a similar avenue of thought...

I was wondering what the area of effect a Particle Accelerator or Meson Gun
had.  In the Striker days you could calculate the Meson Gun's area of
effect by using a formula and the USP factor.  How do you do it with the
FF&S1 or 2 rules?

Kurt Feltenberger

“We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a
habit.”
- --- Aristotle ---

mailto:kurt@blazenet.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 20:38:44 +1200
From: frankie@mundens.gen.nz (Frank G. Pitt)
Subject: Re: Marshall's theories

In article <35A45DE0.17AD@student.uq.edu.au>,
Marie Seeman <s367886@student.uq.edu.au> wrote:
>Ethan Henry wrote:
>>
>> If you look whre most of Canada's military recruits come from (and I
>> really don't know much about the military - this is mostly IMO) they're
>> from the east - New Brunswick & Newfoundland - coincidentally, the two
>> poorest provinces in Canada. New Zeland, while very plesant, has never
>> struck me as a rich country - I think that for the most part, people in
>> poor places tend to be more eager to sign up for the military as it's a
>> much better career option that unemployment or gutting fish (or shearing
>> sheep) for a living.
>
>I will leave it to any Kiwis on the list to reply to Ethan about whether
>or not New Zealand is a "rich country".

It's pretty rich in comparison to any non "Western" country and we
used to rank pretty high on the "Standard of Living" chart, but
now we're dropping of the end of it.

It's largely a result of protectionism, we don't have any the rest
of the world does.

<snip>
>At least some of the volunteer forces would have to be regarded as
>"elite troops", as several unit suffered extreme (around 90%) casualties
>in certain situations, without collapsing!  The Australian commando
>(special forces) units, on the other hand, were not regarded as an elite
>(but some were!)

Just a piece of (uncommon) support for the Diggers from a Kiwi.

The story of the guys who paddled all the way to Singapore and
back again should supress any rumours of the lack of "Eliteness"
of the Aussie commandos.

>While several Australian units were taken prisoner,
>none disgraced themselves.

Except in being drunk under the table and losing their chickens to
the Kiwis !

:-)

<snip>
>The NZ defence force is similar to, but smaller than, the ADF.

Hey, we're not similar, we're ten times better.

How many Fincastle Trophies has Australia won recently, huh  ?
:-)


>I have gone through this rave mainly because someone else mentioned NZ
>troops as a pretty good bunch.  The Australians were pretty much the
>same.  A hint - I also play WWII miniatures - I know something about
>WWII!  There is no particular "warrior" tradition in Australia and NZ -

Not entirely true. There _is_ a  warrior tradition amongst
the New Zealand Maori, sopmething they captialized on to great
effect at places like Monte Casino and Bir Hacheim

>neither country is a particular exporter of warriors in the way 15th and
>16th century Scotland was (although there have been mercenaries from
>both countries - but this is technically illegal).

True, but one does have to take into account the fact that
New Zealand has the highest number of firearms per capita in the
world, even with restrictive legislation on ownership.

>There is no
>particular "economic draft" in either country either - no-one "joins the
>army to go to college", or anything of the sort,

In New Zealand there _was_ in the 1950's and even up to the early 1980's.
_I_ joined the RNZAF in 1980 to learn a trade and get out of a
depressed rural area.

>although there are
>scholarships for students who join the defence forces - someone I went
>to school with was a doctor on a hospital ship in the Gulf War, because
>he had taken the bucks while he was a student.

There are still officer cadet scholarships, which, with free
tertiary education no longer being availale in New Zealand
are more sort after than they used to be.

Frankie

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 13:07:57 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Ease of Aiming

>> Robert Eaglestone <eaglesto@nortel.ca> writes:
>> >
>> > If Roland chooses to shoot with a pistol rather than
>> > a rifle, should he get a DM for ease-of-aiming?
>>
>> If anything, he should get a *NEGATIVE* DM for a shorter sight radius.
>>
>> (When the front and rear sight on a weapon are closer together, it
>> increases the margin of error when aiming.)
>
>I may be silly, but isn't it easier to bring a handgun/pistol to bear (
>draw it) than a rifle.Maybe it depense from which posture you try to aim
>????

No bonuses to thit should be present for pistols (they actually are no
harder nor easier to *AIM*, but they tend to be faster to aim. In my
experience, persons trained to "Point Shoot" with pistols can bring to bear
faster than those with rifles, but accuracy is all still a matter of skill
and appropriateness of range FOR THE WEAPON USED (ie, not too close, and
not beyond the effective range of the weapon).

Rather than a bonus to hit, at ranges less than double the length of the
weapon, I'd impose a +1 diff mod to to ability of an aware and resisting
target to push the weapon and dodge to prevent the firer from actually
getting the weapon to bear.

While Traveller generally doesn't account for speed in bringing a weapon to
bear, under the TNE Initiative system, I'd allow the shorter weapon to fire
before the longer one IF BOTH WILL FIRE in the same initiative point.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 13:29:01 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Damaged Jump Grids

>
>What will hapen if the grid or exterior coils are hit in combat ???
>Will the ship be able to enter Jumpspace( redundant systems ???)!!!
>                                                                    Nick

Pure Grid designs:
According to MT Starhip Operator's Manual (DGP), a damaged jump grid maight
prevent jumping. Since the jump grid holds jumpspace 1m away from the hull,
breaches in the grid less than 2m will not radically affect jump, other
than 1.5 to 2m holes damaging the exterior surface. larger holes allow
jumpspace to intrude. It is implied that Jumpspace will form hemispherical
or hemis-oval-spheroid intrusions with a diameter of the narrowest breach
in the grid. Also, it states that major ammounts of damage to the grid can
cause an automatic "Destroyed Mishap", as jump-space cuts the ship into
pieces. Note also that, while not explicitly stated, it is stated in a
roundabout manner that normal matter cannot survive direct exposure to
jumpspace; jumpspace is the ultimate nuclear bond breaker.... Hmmm gives me
an idea how disintigraters work at high TL's....

Pure Coil designs:
since it can be assumed that the coil is either one coil assembly for the
whole ship, or a series of coils; and we can assume coils will generate
ovaloid bubbles, a ship cannot jump safely if any coils are non-working. I
find only one canonical reference to jump coils: TNE's Regency Sourcebook.
It gives no information on damage to coils.

Mixed Designs:
From Eris description of how HIS TU works,  THe coils seem to generate the
jump, and the grid and injection mass hold the bubble open... so damage
would be a combination of the above.

IMTU, I use both pure grid designs and pure coil designs (with Irridium and
Lanthanum as material options... Irridium became the backing for currency
due to its strategic use for jump grids and coils, before lanthanum was
discovered to be better), but I do not use Mixed coil&grid designs. Coil
designs are good for military ships, since they can take many surface hits
without loss of jump capability, and many civillians use the grids, due to
easier access for maintenance, but with the problem that even surface hits
can cause loss of jump capability. Also, still IMTU,  Coil designs can be
easily retrofit, while grid designs cannot. Another restriction on coils
IMTU is that they are more difficult to control; higher chance of error,
but lesser chance of severe misjumps (Since my primary system is MT, all
tasks for jump coils are one level higher, but one die less on mishap
chances when a mishap occurs), so coil ships will seldom be destroyed by a
misjump. This also explains the prevalence of Grid ship IMTU: most civilian
ships use grids tue to safety and ease of use; Most naval jump navigators
IMTU are E7-E9 ratings, with YEARS behind the boards.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 14:05:08 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: RW Elite Units

>How many of you out there can name the various *elite* units that each
>branch of the US military has?
>
>Sinbad Sam
>sinbad@hex.net

Dunno, but I'll name the ones I know. Depends on definition of Elite.
Listing of Elite/Special, as I understand the term (units with high morale,
training, and washout rates in training):

By international standards, the whole bloody USMC USED TO BE considered an
elite unit...

US Navy: Seal Teams, UDT Teams (phased out, AFAIK), Air/Sea Rescue (Altho
not combat elites), SeaBee's (Construction Battailons, specifically those
trained for war zone base construction; the ones I knew spend more time
shooting than practicing construction)

USMC: Force Recon, Seal Teams, Snipers

US Army: Airborne, Rangers (many of whom are also airborne), Green Berets
(Cadre specialty), Air Assault (just barely, IMHO), CID Special
Investigations (I knew a CW3 in this specialty... doing undercover ops both
on and off various bases... he'd recently stopped doing undercover work
when I met him), EOD, Arctic Warfare, Moutain Warfare, SNipers

US Air Force: Delta Force (technically multi-service), Para-Rescue, Combat
Controllers, EOD.

Police (in general): SWAT, IAD, CRIT (Crisis Response Intervention Teams;
similar to SWAT, but trained for less confrontational situations as well),
EOD.

Also, the entire Submarine Service of the USN is borderline on Elite.
All Drill Instructors could be considered Elite... But I don't consider
them so.

All the above have fairly high morale by comparison, special distinctions
(except CID SI), extra training, and most have very high wash-out rates in
training.

IMTU, there are a variety of "Elite Forces" some of which are not combat
forces:
Navy: SeaBees, Special Boarding Squads, Deep Space Combatant Rescue.
Marines: Beachhead teams, Special Boarding Squads, "Bounce Infantry" (who
are Grav-belt trained drop troops trained in high speed maneuver warfare,
and various specialty units.
Army, Flyers, sailors: varies by world.
Police: Much the same as above, plus Orbital Teams (based upon being able
to get ship skills in the MT Law Enforcer career.)

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 15:58:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
Subject: Grav Belt Skill (was: Re: RW Elite Units)

> IMTU, there are a variety of "Elite Forces" some of which are not combat
> forces:
> Marines: Beachhead teams, Special Boarding Squads, "Bounce Infantry" (who
> are Grav-belt trained drop troops trained in high speed maneuver warfare,

Exactly what skill do you use for Grav Belt under T4?

Ben

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 01:50:25 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Reactivating mothballed ships

Walter Smith writes:

>Regarding why it took so long to reactivate the Azhanti High Lightnings
>in the last MT Adventure _Arrival Vengeance_:

Lest we lose sight of the origin of this particular sub-thread, it started
when I suggested that _maybe_ the reason why the numbers I had workded out
for the tonnage of the active Imperial fleet didn't fit with the presumed
peacetime military budget (3%) was that the Imperial fleet had lots and lots
of mothballed ships which sucked up a lot of the budget. One possible setup
was that they had so many ships that if they went on a war footing, their
wartime budget (15%) would just suffice to support them all. Against that
spoke the fact that this worked out at 8 times the active fleet, which is a
hell of a lot of ships. Nevertheless, there was some _small_ supporting
evidence in the fact that Trin was still reactivating old Imperial ships
after six years on a war footing and planned to do so for at least two more
years. (Mind you, even 8 times the active fleet is not going to tie up the
shipyards for six years unless the yards are much smaller than TCS indicates.
But it's a better explanation than combat repairs).
 
So I'm not claiming that this is the only logical setup. Just that it is
logical and that there is a tiny bit of evidence in favor of it.
 
>IIRC, these ships weren't being reactivated for use in the Regency
>fleet - weren't they being reactivated for transfer to friendly Aslan?

This begs the question. If the Domain was under such tremendous pressure
and didn't have a humongous mothballed fleet, why wasn't these ships
reactivated years earlier and put to use? That is, why are these ships
available for reactivating and turning over to friendly Aslans in the
first place?
 
>Lack of trained Human-Aslan liaison people (how many humans can show an
>Aslan male how to work the spinal mount without getting into a duel?)
>may have limited how many ships per year they wanted to release.

So why not reactivate the ship, put it to use, and start building a
suitable ship for when they want to release one to the Aslans? With six
years' lead time there should be no particular problems sheduling that.

>There may have been a spare parts problem - these were old ships.

Of which a number were still active in the Imperial fleet.

>Most important, Norris may have had a dozen more pressing things to do with
>his personel and resources than get these ships transferred immediately.

Likely. But does he have more pressing things to do than getting every ship
he can lay his hands on reactivated and sent off to control the Vargr and
the Aslans?


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 02:00:16 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Al Morai route protectors

Walter Smith writes:

>Hans Rancke wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>They had four Gazelles. If I didn't get my sums wrong, their cost works out
>to 3% of the cost of their merchant fleet. The article didn't explain how
>four ships actually went about protecting 52 merchants ships jumping back
>and forth between 50 different systems.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>I'd hazard a guess that they only escorted merchant ships that were:
>A) Carrying unusually valuable cargoes compared to the rest of the
>Al Morai fleet. This would include high-publicity cargoes, the loss of
>which would harm Al Morai's reputation.

Sorry,   I think we've given you the wrong idea about Al Morai. Their 52
ships are more in the way of passenger liners.

>B) Performing exploratory trade in unknown areas.

Al Morai don't do that.

>C) Trading at Amber Zones where the presence of an armed vessel
>would make a difference.

Al Morai don't do that.

>D) Trading in star systems that had suffered recent losses of ships
>to Corsairs, Commerce Raiders or "Unexplained Disappearances".

Maybe. I myself would expect the Navy to stir itself enough to send out
a patrol once a system began suffering from Corsairs, Commerce Raiders,
and unexplained disappearances.
 

      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 18:21:21 -0700
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Re: Reactivating mothballed ships

Recruiting and training crews for all those ships may explain the 'paced'
re-activation of the mothball fleet.

douglas

E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller
IMTU tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls
The early bird gets the worm, BUT
   the second mouse gets the cheese!
- -----Original Message-----
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Friday, July 10, 1998 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: Reactivating mothballed ships


>Walter Smith writes:
>
>>Regarding why it took so long to reactivate the Azhanti High Lightnings
>>in the last MT Adventure _Arrival Vengeance_:
>
>Lest we lose sight of the origin of this particular sub-thread, it started
>when I suggested that _maybe_ the reason why the numbers I had workded out
>for the tonnage of the active Imperial fleet didn't fit with the presumed
>peacetime military budget (3%) was that the Imperial fleet had lots and
lots
>of mothballed ships which sucked up a lot of the budget. One possible setup
>was that they had so many ships that if they went on a war footing, their
>wartime budget (15%) would just suffice to support them all. Against that
>spoke the fact that this worked out at 8 times the active fleet, which is a
>hell of a lot of ships. Nevertheless, there was some _small_ supporting
>evidence in the fact that Trin was still reactivating old Imperial ships
>after six years on a war footing and planned to do so for at least two more
>years. (Mind you, even 8 times the active fleet is not going to tie up the
>shipyards for six years unless the yards are much smaller than TCS
indicates.
>But it's a better explanation than combat repairs).
>
>So I'm not claiming that this is the only logical setup. Just that it is
>logical and that there is a tiny bit of evidence in favor of it.
>
>>IIRC, these ships weren't being reactivated for use in the Regency
>>fleet - weren't they being reactivated for transfer to friendly Aslan?
>
>This begs the question. If the Domain was under such tremendous pressure
>and didn't have a humongous mothballed fleet, why wasn't these ships
>reactivated years earlier and put to use? That is, why are these ships
>available for reactivating and turning over to friendly Aslans in the
>first place?
>
>>Lack of trained Human-Aslan liaison people (how many humans can show an
>>Aslan male how to work the spinal mount without getting into a duel?)
>>may have limited how many ships per year they wanted to release.
>
>So why not reactivate the ship, put it to use, and start building a
>suitable ship for when they want to release one to the Aslans? With six
>years' lead time there should be no particular problems sheduling that.
>
>>There may have been a spare parts problem - these were old ships.
>
>Of which a number were still active in the Imperial fleet.
>
>>Most important, Norris may have had a dozen more pressing things to do
with
>>his personel and resources than get these ships transferred immediately.
>
>Likely. But does he have more pressing things to do than getting every ship
>he can lay his hands on reactivated and sent off to control the Vargr and
>the Aslans?
>
>
>      Hans Rancke
>University of Copenhagen
>     rancke@diku.dk
>------------
>        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
>         events based on the individual situation."
>                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8
>

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #651
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Saturday, July 11 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 652



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Space 1999 Dates..?
Re: Nuclear Damper Questions
Re: Reactivating mothballed ships
Re: Special Effects (was re: Morrow Project)
re: My reply to Ethan Henry
Re: T2K and the end of the world
re: Al Morai Route Protectors
Azhanti High Lightning (was re: reactivating mothballed ships)
re: Marshall's theories, and other stuff
Vegans!!
re: T'anks for the memories
Weapon Special Effects
Re: Marshall's theories
Vegans
Re: Marshall's theories

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 22:06:23 -0500
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@fastlane.net>
Subject: Re: Space 1999 Dates..?

At 05:08 PM 7/10/1998 +0100, you wrote:
>Hi, someone wanted the Date Moonbase Alpha had its little accident, well it
>is / was / will be September 9th 1999
>
>
>Nick.
>Behold,  his feet leave tracks in the sands of time,
>and Death walks at his left hand...
> 
It was September 13, 1999.

Jimmy Simpson
	nimrodd@fastlane.net
"Cannot say.
 Saying, I would know.
 Do not know.
 So cannot say."
		-Zathras (Babylon 5)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 19:56:18 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Nuclear Damper Questions

In mail you write:

> Hm...I was playing around with some ideas with nuclear dampers, and had some
> questions which the list might be able to answer:
>
> 1)  Can a nuclear damper shut down a fusion reactor (on someone
> else's ship, presumably)?  Given that TL 12+ fusion reactors include
> their own nuclear dampers to accelerate the fusion process, I can see
> how it might be protected, but presumably TL 11- could be shut off
> easily, and presumably even a TL 12+ reactor could be overloaded.

We've batted this around before on the list. I think we decided it was
up to the ref. That is, it ought to be possible, but it may unbalance
things. 

> 2)  Assuming reactors _can_ be shielded, what about using a damper
> box to shield nuclear weapons from dampers?

I'd say one follows from the other. And I wouldn't want to be around a
fission warhead if you hit oit with a damper set to "accelerate".

> 4)  If you use a damper to accelerate nuclear decay, does radioactive
> decay still occur at normal decay energies (in which case using an
> accelerator on radioactive materials could be highly dangerous)?  If
> not, it has somewhat unfortunate consequences in terms of
> conservation of energy.

I'd say yes. So it's great for cleaning up fallout, but only if you can
get folks out of the area first. :-)

> 5)  How much does a damper accelerate/decelerate decay?  

Well, since it's supposed to be able to render the site of a nuke blast
usable, I'd say several billion to several trillion times. (Hundreds of
years in a turn at least).

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 21:09:34 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Reactivating mothballed ships

 
>This begs the question. If the Domain was under such tremendous pressure
>and didn't have a humongous mothballed fleet, why wasn't these ships
>reactivated years earlier and put to use? That is, why are these ships
>available for reactivating and turning over to friendly Aslans in the
>first place?

Because "Lightning" Class cruisers are real clunkers with no place in a 
modern fleet engagtement, and didn't get reactivated until all the 
good ships had been brought out first?> And even then, they got given to
the Aslan...

(Don't get me wrong, the Lightning is a beautiful ship, and we all lo9ve it
because it has decklplants, but at 2G it has no chance of surviving an
engagtement with a 6G light cruiser.)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 20:01:49 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Special Effects (was re: Morrow Project)

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erikson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> I actually helped a friend set up some more reasonable supply caches.
> And he wanted some sort of "leftover" weapons system to give the
> players trouble. So I told him about the Thor kinetic kill weapon
> project. And showed him the pictures of warheads re-entering from an
> issue of Scientific American (I swear, they look like the biggest,
> nastiest *energy weapons* you've ever seen :-)
>
> I never did hear how the players reacted.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> I know there are people on the list quite conversant with ideas for
> advanced weaponry in the Traveller universe. Most of these weapons
> will never be in the hands of player characters, and if they are ever
> used directly on the PC's you'll be rolling up new PC's.
>
> This doesn't mean the PC's won't see these weapons used. They can
> add quite a bit of color to an adventure that happens in or near a war
> zone, or can be the superweapon of a terrorist attack. But to make them
> work as a GM, we need to know what they'll look like on the big screen.
>
> Orbital-dropped Kinetic Kill weapons (Thor's Hammer and such):
> Do these tire-irons (or telephone poles) fall too fast to be seen with the
> naked eye? Will they look like energy bolts (due to re-entry heat)?

Give what missile warheads re-entering looked like in the *daylight*
photo in Scientific american, you'll likely see a blinding white bar of
light. That's a combo of the plasma sheath during re-entry, and
persistence of vision. They'll be moving around 11 km/sec, so you won't
see them move except from a long ways off.

> What kind of explosion do you get when one hits a tank?

Depends on the mass and velocity of the projectile. The rule of thumb
is that at 3 km/sec an object has kinetic energy equal to its mass in
TNT. And it increases as the square of the velocity (twice as fast =
four times the energy).

So figure 25 kilos at 11 km/sec is equivalent to a third of a ton of
TNT. All concentrated on the point of impact. Ouch!

For the silo busters, let's figure 500 kilos (half a ton). Which gives
us 6.7 kilotons. (20 times the mass, 20 times the energy)

> How about when a scattering of them hit a field or plain old dirt?

Same kind of blast, as long as they hit something "solid". And at those
speeds *water* is pretty solid. But the blast from a silo killer would
be fatal to a sub that hadn't managed to dive *real* deep. 

Do note that these things are intended to be able to steer themselves
toward anything that looks like whatever type of "target" they were set
for at launch. So if they are set for tanks, they'll go for tanks. And
you may even get multiples going after the same tank. 

So the odds are that they won't be hitting "dirt" very often. Of course
if they are homing on *foxholes*... <evil grin>

> How close can the GM drop these without killing the PC's?

How close would you want to be to 1/3 ton of TNT? :-)

Think of these as being *very* heavy artillery, or Naval guns.

> Fusion Guns: White-hot, yellow, red?

Blue white. Anything *close* to fusion temps is white shading into blue
or even violet. 

> Straight-line bolts, or streams of blobs (for the rapid-pulse model)?

Good question. At a guess, I'd say they are an ellipsoidal (cigar shape
or *stretched* egg shape) long axis in the direction of travel. Moving
fast, and expanding as they go.

> How bright are they at night when fired - does a single grav tank
> firing a fusion gun light up the night?

They should make a magnesium flare look *dim*.

> What kind of sound do fusion guns make - sharp cracking sounds?
> Thunder-like rumbles? 

Problably not that different from thunder. *Close* thunder.

> Particle Beams: I've heard these described as straight-line lightning
> bolts - blue-white? How bright?

Think of them as directed lightning. They don't glow, but the
atmosphere they pass thru *does*.

> What kind of explosion when they smack a building?

Much like the explosion from anything else dumping that much energy
into the target. :-)


> How close can the GM shoot these things to the PC's before we start
> getting suspension of disbelief problems?

Personal if it was less that a meter away, I'd consider myself to be in
*deep* shit. At even 10 meters I wouldn't be real happy. Since a P-beam
has side effects much like the grandaddy of all lightning bolts, a near
miss can be pretty traumatic.

> What kind of sound - a hiss? A crack?

Think lightning bolt. *BIG* Lightning bolt. 

> Anti-Laser Aerosols: Do these look like regular smokescreens, perhaps
> with a funny iridescence to them? What happens if a fog of this passes
> over you? Coughing, irritated eyes just like smoke, or something worse?
> What color are they? What happens when a laser hits the cloud, is it
> backlit like a cloud in a thunderstorm? Can you get cooked by laser
> scatter from the big beamer that's trying to zap your APC through a
> cloud, if you're nearby when it happens?

They'll probably be your typical gray-white cloud. Color is a measure
of what wavelengths something reflects. Since you don't know what
wavelengths the enemy will throw at you, you have to be ready for all
of them, thus the "grey-white". 

It probably wouldn't do your lungs a lot of good to inhale the stuff,
but they won't make it toxic if they can avoid it. It's just that
inhaling fine particulates is not a good thing. I assume respirators of
some sort will be standard issue (heck, gasmasks ought to be and they
can filter the stuff out).

Given that the cloud has to do more than just *scatter* the beam (the
beam will be doing its best to vaporize the cloud particles in its
path), the area near the path of a beam is *not* a good place. Expect
interesting effects such as the vaporized areosol particles reacting
with the air (burning) or vapor depositing on nearby cool surfaces.

For example, if the areosol is silicate based, the leaves near the
path of an absorbed beam might have a thin coating of glass (soap
bubble thickness) on them. There'd be odd crackling or tinkling noises
when you brushed against those leaves and the coating shattered as the
leaf flexed.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 15:14:32 -0700
From: Marie Seeman <s367886@student.uq.edu.au>
Subject: re: My reply to Ethan Henry

My last contribution on the topic of 'Marshall's theories' was a bit
strongly worded and not particularly relevent.  Sorry about that.  I
managed to get a bit worked up while I wrote it, and should have edited
it before I sent it.

It had been a long day!

My point was: neither New Zealand nor Australia have maintained
significant military forces outside the World Wars.

Ethan is actually kind of right in one respect - I think military
recruitment in Australia may be higher in rural, rather than urban
areas.

On another topic, my pocket empire campaign(s) have tended to feature
"good guy" empires with very small standing military forces and big
militias - partly on the Australian model, and partly because my
campaigns don't tend to feature the "Smash and Grab" type of military
scenario.  It also differentiates my PEs from the "US marines in space"
style of, for example, the Reformation Coalition.

It tends to work like this - on a united, relatively stable world with a
popularly supported government, there isn't much need for infantry and
other ground troops.  The main military threat comes from off-world
raiders, who rarely have much in the way of ground troops.  So, you
establish a rapid reaction force and allocate most of the rest of your
resources to your fleet and planetary defence batteries.  This works
well enough in the TNE setting, and coincidentally allows you to
concentrate almost all of your scarce relic equipment in the units that
are most likely to see combat.

Once again, sorry I flamed you, Ethan.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 15:44:13 -0700
From: Marie Seeman <s367886@student.uq.edu.au>
Subject: Re: T2K and the end of the world

First, a confession:  I didn't play T2K in the 80's, because I wasn't
keen on the "survivable Nuclear War" thing.  Basically, it was a bit too
real, and pushed some of my political buttons too hard.

Second, I celebrated the Jupiter II's launch!  I was very impressed by
the new US army laser rifles, too!  Shame about that nice Dr Smith...

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 02:12:32 -0400
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: re: Al Morai Route Protectors

Hans Rancke wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>I'd hazard a guess that they only escorted merchant ships that were:
>A) Carrying unusually valuable cargoes compared to the rest of the
>Al Morai fleet. This would include high-publicity cargoes, the loss of
>which would harm Al Morai's reputation.

Sorry,   I think we've given you the wrong idea about Al Morai. Their 52
ships are more in the way of passenger liners.

>B) Performing exploratory trade in unknown areas.

Al Morai don't do that.

>C) Trading at Amber Zones where the presence of an armed vessel
>would make a difference.

Al Morai don't do that.

>D) Trading in star systems that had suffered recent losses of ships
>to Corsairs, Commerce Raiders or "Unexplained Disappearances".

Maybe. I myself would expect the Navy to stir itself enough to send out
a patrol once a system began suffering from Corsairs, Commerce Raiders,
and unexplained disappearances
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Picky, picky, picky... <G>

Call the above general ideas for what a 50-ship line would do with
four Gazelle-class gunboats, then...but (as this is TML), I must
refute each of your objections above...as I've never had the pleasure of
reading the Spinward Marches Campaign, I'll have to reference
Hyphen's web page at http://pcug.org.au/~davidjw/libdata/library.htm
as it claims the Al Morai entry to be data from the SMC.

A> On carrying cargo:
"Established in 120 as a local transport company serving systems
within ten parsecs of its base, the company soon expanded to handle
freight and passengers travelling from the Darrian and Sword Worlds 
subsectors to the Imperium." (SMC from web page above)

Freight and passengers. This indicated they've carried cargo almost since
the company was founded. Do they still do so?

Besides, many passenger vessels carry cargo. The 600-tn Subsidized
Liner had more internal volume dedicated to cargo than it did to
passengers.
And of course, if your "valuable cargo" is a celebrity holo-vid megastar,
you might want to give him an escort. 

B> On exploratory trade:
"During the widespread explorations of the Marches in the third
century (201 to 300), Al Morai established an Exploration Division to 
supplement its cargo carriers." (SMC from web page above)

Sounds like the company had an Exploration Division. Perhaps not in
the same league as BT/BY's Leviathans, and it may not still exist - 
but they had one.

C> On Amber Zone trading:
They're trading with the Sword Worlds and the Darrian Confederation - 
outside the Imperial border. To some frames of mind (perhaps especially
the Imperial corporate mindset), anything outside the Imperium is the
equivalent of and Amber Zone.

D> On depending on the Navy:
When will the Navy decide to take an interest? Before or after your
vital cargo of zuchai crystals is ready for pickup? 
A dedicated escort might be a good idea anyway. If a pirate knows
that many of the Al Morai ships passing through this system have an
escort, she might be wary of jumping one - she'll keep wondering where
the escort is, whether it's in a sensor shadow, coming out of jumpspace
any minute, whatever. 

Of course, the average pirate captain will be parsecs away from even
the _rumor_ of a Navy task force arrival.

Al Morai may also have these "Route Protectors" for some less
public reasons. I don't suppose anyone has checked them for
variable transponders lately? It seems an unidentified gunboat
has been harassing independent traders on a certain trade route
in Lunion, a trade route Al Morai has been eyeing for some months
now...private police forces can be as handy as Trader or Broker
skill, if you aren't too picky about how you use them.  <g>


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 02:34:46 -0400
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: Azhanti High Lightning (was re: reactivating mothballed ships)

Bruce Allan Macintosh wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Because "Lightning" Class cruisers are real clunkers with no place in a 
modern fleet engagtement, and didn't get reactivated until all the 
good ships had been brought out first?> And even then, they got given to
the Aslan...

(Don't get me wrong, the Lightning is a beautiful ship, and we all lo9ve it
because it has decklplants, but at 2G it has no chance of surviving an
engagtement with a 6G light cruiser.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Ahh, another lover of the venerable AHL. <G>

I think they kept the AHL's around for two reasons: 

1) AHL is Jump-5. Jump-5 can be a nice asset to have, if it keeps
the enemy worried for another parsec away from the frontier. 
It appears that the IN uses Jump-4 as a standard, only one warship
besides the AHL in Fighting Ships (CT supp 9) is more than Jump-4.
And even with it's agility-5, I think the _Gionetti_ would have problems
with an AHL - AHL has bigger guns, more armor, more defenses, and
a couple of fighter wings over the Gionetti.
Why is Jump-5 so much nicer than Jump-4? Take a look at a sector
map, see how many stars that extra parsec of range adds to your 
hit list. Every star you can visit from your base or frontier is a star
your enemy has to fortify. Every extra star he fortifies dilutes his
defense budget - probably quite a bit more than it cost you to pull
some older ships out of ordinary.

2) Cost Effectiveness - there are a lot of tasks that need doing, but
don't need a first-line warship to do. If a ship will last a century or two,
why ditch it when it's fulfilling a role on the cheap? It takes a long, long
time for an AHL's operating costs to equal the cost of a new build,
even the new build of a smaller but more capable ship.

Not every submarine in the US Navy is Seawolf class. Not every ship
in the Imperial Navy is going to be the cutting edge of TL15.

Walt Smith
(Loved the Arrival Vengeance's new bridge layout, and that gooseneck
bubble was just _made_ to be a lounge....)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 17:17:16 -0700
From: Marie Seeman <s367886@student.uq.edu.au>
Subject: re: Marshall's theories, and other stuff

Frank G. Pitt wrote:
> >While several Australian units were taken prisoner,
> >none disgraced themselves.
> 
> Except in being drunk under the table and losing their chickens to
> the Kiwis !
> 
> :-)
> 

No doubt!

> <snip>
> >The NZ defence force is similar to, but smaller than, the ADF.
> 
> Hey, we're not similar, we're ten times better.
> 
> How many Fincastle Trophies has Australia won recently, huh  ?
> :-)
What's a Fincastle Trophy?
> 
> >I have gone through this rave mainly because someone else mentioned NZ
> >troops as a pretty good bunch.  The Australians were pretty much the
> >same.  A hint - I also play WWII miniatures - I know something about
> >WWII!  There is no particular "warrior" tradition in Australia and NZ -
> 
> Not entirely true. There _is_ a  warrior tradition amongst
> the New Zealand Maori, sopmething they captialized on to great
> effect at places like Monte Casino and Bir Hacheim
> 
And Australian troops shouted "The Australians are coming!" at El
Alamein, although I couldn't find the precise reference!

Actually, this is an example of the nonsense I included in this
posting.  The fact was, the Australian army in WWII was cadred by
veterans of WWI.
What I (think I) meant was, that there was little organisational
continuity between the two, and subsequently - the Australian (& New
Zealand) forces in the world wars were essenctially ad hoc formations,
and the current regular armies are more or less "post-War" creations -
which may NOT be true in the NZ case - I could be talking complete
hogwash here!

Actually, the "present" Australian defence force was formed from WWII
veterans, and was more or less continuously involved in one conflict or
another from 1945 to 1972, including some campaigns (eg West Papua) that
aren't really talked about. There's a "warrior tradition" if you want
one.

> >neither country is a particular exporter of warriors in the way 15th and
> >16th century Scotland was (although there have been mercenaries from
> >both countries - but this is technically illegal).
> 
> True, but one does have to take into account the fact that
> New Zealand has the highest number of firearms per capita in the
> world, even with restrictive legislation on ownership.
> 
A couple of Australian VC winners have poured a great deal of highly
plausible scorn on the Australian "gun lobby" along the lines that
civilian Ramboes have no idea what it is like to actually fight in a
war.

I've met a former NZ army colonel who had been a "contract officer" in a
Middle Eastern state after leaving the NZDF.  He was looking to pad out
his retirement funds.  When I met him, he was a civilian, working for a
Third World government, doing exactly the same.  I don't doubt he would
have been a good soldier if "the Middle Eastern state" had been involved
in a war while he was serving there, but it still suggests a certain
pragmatism.

> >There is no
> >particular "economic draft" in either country either - no-one "joins the
> >army to go to college", or anything of the sort,
> 
> In New Zealand there _was_ in the 1950's and even up to the early 1980's.
> _I_ joined the RNZAF in 1980 to learn a trade and get out of a
> depressed rural area.
> 
I got a real job.  I've been back in "my old home town" since, but only
to visit....

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 17:43:52 -0700
From: Marie Seeman <s367886@student.uq.edu.au>
Subject: Vegans!!

Right!  A grognard question!

As far as I know, there are no official stats for the Vegans.  Maybe the
Digest Group wrote something about them which I don't have.  

I'm assuming here that you have access to either the CT or MT library
data on them.

Vegans seem to be about human-sized.  TNE has stat adjustments for
different planetary conditions.  I would recommend applying the relevant
modifiers for Muan Gwi (stats available in Solomani Rim and one of the
basic MegaTraveller books) to Vegans, perhaps in addition to those for
their actual homeworld.  This would have the effect of making them tall
and skinny beanpoles, which is my reading of their physique.

There is no evidence to suggest that they are any dumber or smarter than
humans.  In the 3I, they would seem to have had similar educational
opportunities to humans, having their own (TL 15) imperial autonomous
district.  Subsequently ("New Era") is subject to your interpretation. 
Social Standing is a worry.  As long term Imperial subjects, I presume
that they would have Social Standing similar to human characters. 
However, this would be modified by their status within their own
society.

The big problem with playing Vegans, is of course, the fact that this is
a non-human society!  Vegans, despite millenia of co-existing with
humans, have their own culture. Without having my books here, I can't
spell "tuhuir" correctly.

Vegan character generation, in most respects, should be double-streamed.
First, they will be operating within "normal" (human) Imperial society. 
Secondly, they will be operating within their own society. 

You could generate Vegan characters as normal human characters.  This is
as close to the "official" way to do it as I am aware of.  However, it
will neglect the unique elements of Vegan society.  This is not a
problem in a CT (or Gurps T) campaign, where the Imperial rules, er,
rule.  It could be a problem in a campaign where Vegan society is more
important.

The most important difference between humans and Vegans is the
lifespan.  Remember the aging rolls?  Vegans don't have to do them.... 
Remember the 70 years between the collapse of the Third Imperium and the
New Era?  The Vegans do, in precise and "I was there" detail.  They WERE
there!  In the TNE setting, there are BILLIONS of Vegans who where
former citizens of the Third Imperium! They haven't forgotten anything. 
They know about TL15....

I don't know what the Vegans were doing during Milieu 0.  All I know is
they were the Vegan Polity, they had the Easter Concord to coreward, and
the Old Earth Union and the Dingir League to rimward.  Dull, huh?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 06:37:03 -0700
From: "A. O'Mary" <omary@my-dejanews.com>
Subject: re: T'anks for the memories

Greetings from a newbie to the mailing list.

>Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 22:45:36 -0700
>>Subject: Re: T'anks for the memories
> > Frankly, I expect that the optimal shape will be a spheroid or oviod of
> > some sort. 
> We thought about that. They make some of the most boring, dull looking
> illustrations/miniatures you've ever seen. Yecccchhhh! 

>What about the Bolo, then?

> Loren Wiseman

Regarding this and the other recent postings on Bolos, it seems to me the main obstacle to creating early to middle Mark-series Bolos is not so much the weapons tech as it is the level of AI available in Traveller rules. Besides, do you really want a Virus-driven Bolo to deal with?
I recently read a Bolo story in which a planet had some Bolos parked in orbit, using them as weather sattelites or something. Wouldn't THAT be a nasty shock to an invading force. (Nope, no system defenses, just a few obsolete satellites. Let's go raiding!  BOOM)
ALO


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 20:25:12 +1000
From: "Robert O'Connor" <Robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Weapon Special Effects

Walter Smith asked for a few suggestions as to what various bits of
Traveller artillery would look like.
Here goes :-
i. Kinetic Kill weapons eg. Thor system.
From a distance, they'd look like shooting stars as the bars (?telegraph
poles) re-entered.
I guess close up they'd look like orange-white hot lumps with a 'smoke'
plume behind (with high-speed photography??).
There would be a sonic boom as well, probably in a small area around the
site of impact, although you can hear aircraft from several kilometers
away...
Damage is a function of their kinetic energy at impact (which would
precede the sound - if you heard them come in, you're not at ground
zero!).
For an object in low Earth orbit :- potential energy = mass X accel due
to gravity X height -
say one million joules for a one kilo lump 100 km up (g=10ms^-2).
Ow. Big explosions. You can imagine the ground just erupting as a flock
of these things hit - like a much more upmarket cluster bomb
explosion...
Danger space rules for energy weapons and artillery in the core rules
can help you resolve the proximity issue, by comparing 'energy content',
if you like.

ii. Fusion guns : colour is a function of the plasma temperature - the
star system generation rules in pre-T4 Traveller might be useful.
I think it's the Stefan-Boltzmann law (?) which states that the
wavelength of radiation emitted by a black body is proportional to the
4th power of its temperature..
Trajectory is a function of muzzle velocity. I suppose the plasma beams
are going to be pretty much straight line. There may be a blobbing
effect with the rapid pulse weapons, depending on the frequency of fire
and the velocity of the plasma 'packet'.
Signature for energy weapons is listed as high - lots of light flashes,
lots of LOUD cracking sounds as more air gets ionised by the plasma.
Maybe rapid pulse guns sound like someone peeling apart an enormous
strip of Velcro..

iii. Particle beams : The same colour considerations apply. We can
similarly generalise about danger space (vide (i.), above).
I reckon these look and sound like lightning - but arrow straight until
it hits something.
Explosions - tricky. What's the building made of? You might just punch a
hole straight through a (soft, thin) wall and then ignite the contents -
boom. Or someone might build with bonded superdense and you'll just have
a big patch of wall boiling off and falling on the street below in hot
droplets...

iii. Anti-laser aerosols
Multi-wavelength (?broad-spectrum) aerosols would probably look like
thick black smoke with whatever wavelength of light or infrared, etc. it
blocked (total internal reflection).
For less efficient aerosols, scattering will produce some colour
proportional to particle density (compare the colour of the sky with
changing atmospheric conditions and time of day).
Particle size and density could be problematic - unless you're using
breathing apparatus.
Anything much smaller than 20 micrometers is going to be deposited in
the deepest parts of the respiratory tree. An acute asthma attack is the
last thing you would want to have on a battlefield with laser cannon
present!
I cannot recall the various parts per million (ppm) concentrations of
any aerosol required to have respiratory effects - the only RPG I've
seen these in was Fantasy Games Unlimited's 'Space Opera' (!). A
textbook of occupational medicine or ventilation engineering (or
friendly expert therein) is suggested.
It would be a damn shame to be cooked by laser scatter behind your cloud
of 'protective' mist. Unfortunately it wouldn't happen. The idea of
these aerosols is to disperse the light beam so little or no power gets
delivered to a large area (large energy in a short time to a small area
equals big damage).
Now an interesting possibility exists. Anti-laser aerosols and
sandcaster 'sand' are probably of a similar chemical composition
(?plastic or inorganic crystals - literally sand?). If one could heat
them up enough in their mist form and they supported combustion, you'd
have a fairly good fuel-air bomb.......

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 06:49:46 -0700
From: "A. O'Mary" <omary@my-dejanews.com>
Subject: Re: Marshall's theories

FWIW, in the book ' War in the Pacific' a WWII Japanese soldier was quoted as saying he considered the Australians to be the hardest fighters.
ALO
<snip>

The story of the guys who paddled all the way to Singapore and
back again should supress any rumours of the lack of "Eliteness"
of the Aussie commandos.

>While several Australian units were taken prisoner,
>none disgraced themselves.
<snip>

>I have gone through this rave mainly because someone else mentioned NZ
>troops as a pretty good bunch.  The Australians were pretty much the
>same.  A hint - I also play WWII miniatures - I know something about
>WWII!  There is no particular "warrior" tradition in Australia and NZ -




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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 23:50:36 -0700
From: Marie Seeman <s367886@student.uq.edu.au>
Subject: Vegans

Oh dear.

My last contribution on Vegans was obvious garbage.  Their physical
stats  will be influenced by their homeworld, of course, but not twice. 
The way I suggested it, the homeworld modifiers would be applied twice. 
Basically, physical stats start at the human level, but are modified by
homeworld as normal.  Given that the usual homeworlds for Vegans are
worlds resembling Muan Gwi, they will have the kind of weenie physical
stats that I was thinking of.

In other words, Vegan stats will start at 777 (or TNE 666) and then have
the homeworld modifiers applied to them.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 08:15:39 -0700
From: Skoal <skoal@mail.gci-net.com>
Subject: Re: Marshall's theories

At 06:49 AM 7/11/98 -0700, you wrote:
>FWIW, in the book ' War in the Pacific' a WWII Japanese soldier was quoted
as saying he considered the Australians to be the hardest fighters.
>ALO
><snip>
I read in Red Sun, that the Japanese were more likely to kill a Australian
POW then a Americana or Dutch POW..

>
>The story of the guys who paddled all the way to Singapore and
>back again should supress any rumours of the lack of "Eliteness"
>of the Aussie commandos.
Dam!

Sorry for jumping in, I just can't resists a WW2 topic..

Marana, Az
(for now)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #652
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Saturday, July 11 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 653



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: K'kree? Please Help
Re: Vegans!!
Thanks for your assistance. - Off topic
Re: Vegans!!
Re: Vegans
Re: space 1999 Dates
Re: RW Elite Units
More on Imperial caps
Re: Background Color - Freighters & Liners
Re: Al Morai route protectors
Re: Reactivating mothballed ships
Re: Norris' position
Special Effects
[none]
Traveller, Current Status
Re: Space 1999 Dates
Re: Reactivating mothballed ships
Re: T'anks for the memories

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 08:20:48 -0700
From: Skoal <skoal@mail.gci-net.com>
Subject: Re: K'kree? Please Help

Hello
Sometimes back, someone posted a K'kree character generation to the TML
But I lost the guys email address.
If anyone knows who did this please email me his email address and or his
name for Cr.

The Kkree character generation can be found at.
http://www.gci-net.com/users/s/skoal/kkree.html

Thanks
Marana, Az

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 10:36:29 -0500
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: Re: Vegans!!

In Rats & Cats there are two illos of aliens that contained what may or may
not be Vegans (although I have always assumed that they were). In both they
are among crowds of Solomani -- one walking down a crowded city street, and
the other in the midst of a riot.

Ciao,

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 11:29:27 +0100
From: "Derrick Jones" <dojones@whitestar.u-net.com>
Subject: Thanks for your assistance. - Off topic

Hello 



Thankyou to all the members of the list who helped me in my claim against
the
Royal Mail for damages to my Traveller's Digests whilst in transit. I
received a 
cheque on thursday to cover the damages caused, and a letter of apology. 

It would have been impossible to get anywhere without the testimonies to
the
value of the items.


*ob Trav. what measures would be in place in the Imperium to cover damage
to 
and/or loss of goods or messages in transit. I mean the Imperium grants
licences
for traders to carry mail, right, so what compensation backing and or
guarantees 
would exist to allow it to be viable? Nobody is going to send precious
items if the 
goods aren't covered by insurance, just to see them nicked by some nasty
pirate,
(who may, or may not, be an economical reality!). The Royal Mail has its
procedures
in place, I take it the Imperium, or the Trading Corps would.

Thanks again.

Derrick


Derrick Jones
St Helens
Lancashire UK
<dojones@whitestar.u-net.com>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 12:36:19 -0400
From: John H Bogan Jr <jbogan@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: Vegans!!

At 10:36 AM 7/11/1998 -0500, Joseph R. Dietrich wrote:
>In Rats & Cats there are two illos of aliens that contained what may or may
>not be Vegans (although I have always assumed that they were). In both they
>are among crowds of Solomani -- one walking down a crowded city street, and
>the other in the midst of a riot.

Yes, those are Vegans.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 12:54:02 -0400
From: Steven McKenzie <goldgrif@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Vegans

First off there is  nothing wrong with your information. In the old stuff,
that I have, there are some really good illos of the Vegan. It states due to
their unique limb structure, the strength is less, the dex slightly higher.
THey are desert creatures, so is their con higher somehat?
How about the hood/eye structure.
Too Bad GDW never put anything out like they did for the major races!!!!!!!


I guess I am trying to see if anyone out there had any rules structure for
them, or any other minor race.
Is there a Library structure for the minors????
Might be interesting
Steven McKenzie
Lord Leo Aquila
Luceo Non Uro

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 18:17:42 +0100
From: "CHARLES WALKER" <cnw@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: space 1999 Dates

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 22:06:23 -0500
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@fastlane.net>
Subject: Re: Space 1999 Dates..?
At 05:08 PM 7/10/1998 +0100, you wrote:
>Hi, someone wanted the Date Moonbase Alpha had its little accident, well it
>is / was / will be September 9th 1999
>
>
>Nick.
>Behold,  his feet leave tracks in the sands of time,
>and Death walks at his left hand...
>
It was September 13, 1999.
Jimmy Simpson
nimrodd@fastlane.net
"Cannot say.
Saying, I would know.
Do not know.
So cannot say."
  -Zathras (Babylon 5)

Well E. C. Tubb's Space 1999 Novel Breakaway says September 9th,
but then again the Commissioner Simmonds gives 13 minutes notice of his
arrival from Earth to the Moon.

    Nick.
Behold,  his feet leave tracks in the sands of time,
and Death walks at his left hand...

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 10:05:02 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: RW Elite Units

At 02:05 PM 7/10/98 -0800, you wrote:

>US Army: Airborne, Rangers (many of whom are also airborne)

While some people who go to the ranger School are not Ariborne, all three
Ranger Battalions are Airborne units.  You have to be Airborne to be in a
Batt.

In addition, just about anybody can go through Airborne School.. the 82nd
is hardly an elite unit with 14,000 soldiers.

>US Air Force: Delta Force (technically multi-service)

Special Operations Detachment Delta is an Army unit.  From it's commander
down to the newest memeber, they are drawn from the Army's special Forces
and Ranger units.  They *work* with other teams (SEAL 6 most often), but
are not a multi-service operation.

The only real multi-service SpecWar orgaization is the 1st Joint Special
Operations Command at McDill ARB.  This Command was created after Desert
One and Grenada showed a desperate need for coordination of SpecWar assets.
 The command rotates among the services.  IIRC, the current commander is a
USMC Major General.

>IMTU, there are a variety of "Elite Forces" some of which are not combat
>forces:
>Navy: SeaBees, Special Boarding Squads, Deep Space Combatant Rescue.
>Marines: Beachhead teams, Special Boarding Squads, "Bounce Infantry" (who
>are Grav-belt trained drop troops trained in high speed maneuver warfare,
>and various specialty units.

IMTU, the "Hell team" of Marines and Navy engineers who do hot boardings of
enemy warships to capture them.
- --


+---------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net |
|        http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
+---------------------------------------------+
| "Strategy is the art of making use of time  |
|  and space.  I am less concerned about the  |
|  latter than the former.  Space we can      |
|  recover, lost time never."                 |
|         -Napoleon Bonaparte, French soldier |
+---------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 18:09:44 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: More on Imperial caps

The company I am currently in discussion with will be getting
back to me (or I will be calling them) by Wednesday, 7/15,
letting me know how possible it is, and giving me an opportunity
to see what it will come out looking like.

The discussion centered on a two-inch version of the sunburst as
pictured on Freelance Traveller http://w3.execnet.com/jeffz or
(http://www.tightbeam.com/FreelanceTraveller).  Colors discussed
were yellow sun on black cap, without ruling out other color
combinations.

Construction: None of the caps I checked (at their "on the spot"
stand/shop in the Manhattan Mall across the street from _the_
Macy*s) were cheap construction.  They had waxed canvas,
all-cloth (85/15 acrylic/wool), and leather-brim.  The waxed
canvas and all-cloth were one-size, with plastic adjustable
strap; the leather brim was one-size with a leather strap with
aluminum friction buckle.

Pricing: Estimated cost for one cap will be in the $20 to $25
range.  Quantity orders will be discounted at the rate of one
percent per cap for each cap ordered, with a minimum order of ten
caps, and a maximum discount of 60%.  More clearly:

1-9 caps: no discount
10 caps : 10% off each cap
11 caps : 11% off each cap
12 caps : 12% off each cap
...
20 caps : 20% off each cap
...
60 or more caps: 60% off each cap.

I neglected to inquire for sure, but I would pessimistically
assume that different color combinations will price as different
orders.

I did not ask about exclusivity on the logo; I would assume that
it would raise the price, with a possible exception for a
guaranteed volume level.  If exclusivity is to be pursued, I
think that I would have to have (at the very least) some sort of
formal statement (writing, on letterhead, not email) from Marc or
a licensee authorizing this item.  I still take the position
that, even on the semi-informal level that this discussion is
currently at, Marc has a moral (and possibly legal) veto over the
entire idea; I'd appreciate a comment on this.

Color combinations I'm aware of:

Yellow on Black
This is the Cleon I original design, probably still used for sale
as souvenirs to tourists to the Palace, for the Palace
groundskeepers, and for off-duty use by the unit acting as
Emperor's Guard, regardless of service.  This is also the
probable Imperial Navy design.

Maroon on Yellow
This is the probable Imperial Marine design.

Red on ???
This is the probable Imperial Scout design.

Black on ???
This is the probable Imperial Army design.

Based on the machine I saw at the Mall, the Marine design may not
be possible; I saw red but no maroon thread.  I'd need to know
the cap colors for the Army and Scouts; the sunburst color was
listed in the Imperial Encyclopedia (MT).

(Personally, I'd opt for the original/palace/navy design.  It
looks the coolest, and accessorizes the best.  Even the New York
Mets went to a black cap for (some of) their uniforms; the old
blue cap, while still available, didn't sell well because there
was too much that it didn't go with.  Black can be worn with
anything.)
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 20:19:34 +0100
From: "Buston, John" <john.buston@eds.com>
Subject: Re: Background Color - Freighters & Liners

Phil Kitching wrote:

[snip: lots of good stuff on trade]

>The answer is that something like a cheaper subsidised merchant wins
>everytime because it has the same passenger/cargo mix as a free trader,
>is cheaper per cargo ton, but is not so big that the passenger/cargo
>rules leave it empty.

IMO subsidised merchants don't feel very realistic.  They actually pay
you to run an inefficient ship, and would also be a very large
temptation to "cook the books".

>A properly designed ship makes cash at 50% loading. 

Can you point me at one of these designs. I have been trying to make a
large freighter profitable at the 50% level and have failed miserably. I
can't get better than about 65%. It is easy with passenger vessels but
try as I might I cannot do it with freighters.

Note: I use canon depreciation (1.875% pa) - insurance of only 1% (IIRC
I read an article recently that put the average US corps liability -
insured or not - at around 2.5% of expenses) and a berthing fee equal to
volume (though this makes little difference compared to the above
figures).

>If designed with a route in mind (ie if your 10,000 ton ship is half full,
> then a 5,000 ton ship is full) can return the initial investment in 
> 5 years (since 5 year morgages cost less than 40 year ones).

Corps still have to look out for the short term. Paying off a relatively
low interest mortgage quickly costs you liquidity and loses you all
sorts of high return opportunities.

>I agree that depreciation is ignored (at least by PCs who don't expect
>the campaign to last for 40 years), as is loss insurance (since the PCs
>tend to be part of the loss)
>but there is enough profit margin for the corps here already.

Free traders are part of the background as well as for PCs. If they
can't make a profit shifting freight or carrying low passengers then
what are the tables for? I don't think they were intended as marginal
business lines to be used as a last resort when all other options are
exhausted. After all high and mid-passenger rates are very generous when
they should be just as tight. IMO they were meant to be staples with a
small but reasonable profit, and they just didn't get an accountant to
check their assumptions. I can understand that ;-)

IMO they wouldn't be able to get by without some form of insurance.
Otherwise a single weapons hit or minor collision would bankrupt them. A
PC friendly GM is not something that you should factor into your
business plan ;-)

>>In other words you have to break some of the vanilla rules to make other
>>vanilla rules make financial sense (at least to me and I hope to any
>>merchants or accountants on the list).

>No, the small ships are designed for merchant adventurers who move
>cargos from one planet to another for large profit margins per ton.

Such a high risk, high gain approach to business certainly has the
frontier feel.  The problem with such high risk businesses is the
failure rate.  IMO you would not be able to get the mortgage in the
first place with a business plan like that, at least not at the canon
rates. It would also make insurance premiums rocket.

John

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 21:36:52 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Al Morai route protectors

Walter G. Smith writes:

>Hans Rancke wrote:
> 
>>Sorry,   I think we've given you the wrong idea about Al Morai. Their 52
>>ships are more in the way of passenger liners.
>
>Call the above general ideas for what a 50-ship line would do with
>four Gazelle-class gunboats, then...but (as this is TML), I must
>refute each of your objections above...as I've never had the pleasure of
>reading the Spinward Marches Campaign, I'll have to reference
>Hyphen's web page at http://pcug.org.au/~davidjw/libdata/library.htm
>as it claims the Al Morai entry to be data from the SMC.

Well, I didn't have SMC with me yesterday, but I do today, so let me check.
Could I possibly have misremembered? Unthinkable!

Hmmm...

<<BLUSH!>>

It's thinkable...
 
>A> On carrying cargo:
> 
>Freight and passengers. This indicated they've carried cargo almost since
>the company was founded. Do they still do so?

Sorry, I must have been thinking about the Tukera Longliners. Al Morai's
present-day fleet consists of 53 3000 T ships with 1,200 T of cargo space
and 30 passenger cabins. The do carry cargo. AND passengers.
 
>And of course, if your "valuable cargo" is a celebrity holo-vid megastar,
>you might want to give him an escort. 

You have four escorts spread out across 51 worlds spread from Raweh to
Boughene. Whenever one of your ships realize that they are going to need
an escort for a special cargo, odds are that the nearest ship is 8-10
parsecs away. Which means 2-3 jumps to notify it and 2-3 jumps for it to
reach you. Although I suppose clever scheduling might cut those figures
down somehow, odds are that your escorts will hardly ever be there when
you need them.

When are your escorts going to be in the right place at the right time?
Whenever you have a couple of months warning that a special cargo is due.
Otherwise in about 6% of the cases...

About the only way I can see it working is if every other major company
has escorts too and they have a mutual cooperation agreement. Which is
not at all an unreasonable set-up.

>B> On exploratory trade:
> 
>Sounds like the company had an Exploration Division. Perhaps not in
>the same league as BT/BY's Leviathans, and it may not still exist - 
>but they had one.

"THE EXPLORATION DIVISION originally surveyed star systems, but as new star
systems became unavailable, its purpose shifted to surface exploration of
Shirene. The Exploration Division currently operates a large geological
survey team, with prospecting detachments throughout Shirene." [SMC, p. 30]
 
>C> On Amber Zone trading:
>They're trading with the Sword Worlds and the Darrian Confederation - 

Not in 1110. That service was discontinued in 589 and wasn't resumed until
after the Rebellion. [SMC, p. 31] ButI admit that they do trade with some
Imperial planets with Amber Zone classification (Roup was the one I found
when I looked; there are propably more).

>D> On depending on the Navy:
>When will the Navy decide to take an interest?

As soon as they are notified, of course. What Navy commander is going to
pass up a chance to score a few brownie points by catching a pirate?

>Before or after your vital cargo of zuchai crystals is ready for pickup? 

What are the odds that one of your escorts are closer to the trouble spot
than an Imperial squadron? 

>A dedicated escort might be a good idea anyway...

I'm going to ignore the rest of the post on the grounds that it raises
issues that are being discussed elsewhere.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 21:52:42 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Reactivating mothballed ships

Bruce Alan Macintosh writes:

>>This begs the question. If the Domain was under such tremendous pressure
>>and didn't have a humongous mothballed fleet, why wasn't these ships
>>reactivated years earlier and put to use? That is, why are these ships
>>available for reactivating and turning over to friendly Aslans in the
>>first place?
> 
>Because "Lightning" Class cruisers are real clunkers with no place in a 
>modern fleet engagtement, and didn't get reactivated until all the 
>good ships had been brought out first?>

You mnust have missed the first part of the discussion. I was defending
the notion that maybe the Imperial Navy had a huge number of mothballed
ships in peacetime, so many that even after six years they hadn't
managed to reactivate all of them, as witness the fact that even after
six years they hadn't reactivated all the Azhantis.

>(Don't get me wrong, the Lightning is a beautiful ship, and we all lo9ve it
>because it has decklplants, but at 2G it has no chance of surviving an
>engagtement with a 6G light cruiser.)

Eh? What does the acceleration have to do with its combat performance? OK,
it affects the agility, but what 6G cruiser has power enough to let it
utilize its full 6G for agility? Even then the computer is much more
important to combat performance. Besides, there is plenty for them to do
apart from indulging in singleship duels with 6G light cruisers. An Azhanti
can make mincemeat of a whole Aslan _ihatei_ squadron all by its own. Or its
own weight in Vargr cruisers. Believe me, if the official history of the
Rebellion is true (which I admit I don't believe it can possibly be), Norris
would have plenty of uses for all the Azhantis he could scrape up. No, the
only plausible reason why those ships weren't activated earlier is IMO that
Norris had better things to do with his shipyard capacity.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8
 
 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:12:26 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Norris' position

David P. Summers writes:

>Regarding Norris' non-intervention in the civil war, my take was that
>Norris was loyal to the _Imperium_ and not any faction vying for power
>(all of which were tainted one way or another, even the Strephon faction
>had questions about whether it was really Strephon).

I agree, although I think that IF he had wanted to, Strephon should have
been able to work out a message to Norris that would convince him of
Strephon's legitimacy. So I would think that Strephon never did send off
such a message. Initially he propably didn't want to take forces away
from the Zhodani border. His diary makes it clear that he expected the
way back to be a cakewalk. By the time he realized different and found
out about the strange quiscence of the Zhodani, he had decided to play
the part of the false Strephon.

>My guess is that, even given the lack or resources, he would (unless the
>Strephon can prove himself legit) have the attitude that he will wait
>until someone can unify the Imperium and, in the meantime, avoid
>contributing to the loss of life involved.

I agree. And in addition, he may well have been reluctant to tempt the
Zhodani overmuch by sending off a couple of dozen fleets.

A third factor may have been the Siru Zirkaa. Someone once suggested that
the reason why Strephon didn't help out the beleaguered systems in
Corridor was a belligerent attitude on the part of the Restored Vilani.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 12:41:32 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Special Effects

Walt Sith talked about the descriptions of weapons in action... as a backdrop.
He's dead on as far as it adding to the feel of the Traveller universe, but
not correct about PC's being on the recieving end.

Many of the powerful weapons (Meson and other Particle accellerators are
powerful weapons systems, yes. But, if one is running a large scale
military campaign (several articles were published for doing this,
especially for MT), PC's may be in charge of craft large enough tobe
survivable under such fire. Large Scale Mercenary games (under CT+Bk4 or
MT) will see much weaponry of great power unleashed.

As a backdrop, however, nothing seems to impress players more than an
"Imperial Intervention"--ortillery wiping out entire ground bases, brigades
of marines droping on cities, wave after wave of marine and army landing
craft unloading to secure the civillian sectors. It is even more powerful
when the PC's were involved in either causing or calling for the
intervention.

Even small elite heavy weapons troops can be impressive... and under both
CT and MT, I've seen PC's survive a direct hit... months later, the PC is
out of the hospital, but still not home free.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 12:46:41 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: [none]

>> IMTU, there are a variety of "Elite Forces" some of which are not combat
>> forces:
>> Marines: Beachhead teams, Special Boarding Squads, "Bounce Infantry" (who
>> are Grav-belt trained drop troops trained in high speed maneuver warfare,
>
>Exactly what skill do you use for Grav Belt under T4?
>
>Ben

The Real answer: I don't use T4. I tried it, it was so broken my players
objected, and I moved to an MT based task system and MT combat system. Now
I just run a heavily modified (Mostly in CGen) MT.

The Short answer: Grav Belt or level 1 if Grav Vehicle 1+

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 16:47:01 -0400
From: Peter Miller <thegolem@mindless.com>
Subject: Traveller, Current Status

Hi,

I used to be a member of the TML a long while ago, but have since
stopped receiving the list.  just recently, I've gotten back into
Traveller and noticed, to my chagrin that IG has stopped publication of
T4 :-(

I have a few questions I hope someone can answer for me:

1)  Any progress on a new licensee for Traveller?
2)  Will the contiunation of GATEWAY to the STARs by Pierce Askegren be
published?  I just the read it and want to see what happens.
3)  Where was the 'BONUS!  An all-new Traveller module by Marc Miller!'
in the book?  I couldn't find it anywhere.

Please reply to my address, thegolem@mindless.com as I don't want to tie
up the list with replies that most hear probably already know the
answers to.

Thanks,
- -- 

______________________Peter J. Miller
thegolem@mindless.com     ICQ 5294589
- -------------------------------------
"The unknown is shown only by a bend
in the known." - Norman Nicholson

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 16:44:08 -0400
From: "Shade" <jwatts@catt.com>
Subject: Re: Space 1999 Dates

Trust me.... it was Sept 13, 1999

I plan on having a really good party that night.....trouble is... its a
Monday.

Mondays are always bad... even on the moon.

Shade




Just remember:  The reason Santa is so jolly is
because he knows where all the bad girls live.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 17:23:51 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: Reactivating mothballed ships

Just some info I dug out of Digest Group's _The Travellers' Digest_, no.7.

Dynam had about 1200 mothballed _ships_

It takes about 6 days per 1000 tons of ship with the full complement of the
Engineering section

It takes about 4 days per 1000 tons of ship to properly mothball it for
future use.

Every two years or so the reactor is refueled and the ship is checked for
damage.

As I see it, perhaps the delay in reactivating the ships in the Marches is
due to a lack of engineering crew, or, engineering crew rated on the AHL
class.

Or...it could have been what was needed to make the scenario work.

Just a thought...

Kurt Feltenberger
kurt@blazenet.net



http://www.igateway.com/clients/kurt/mp  Morrow Project Site

http://www.igateway.com/clients/kurt/pj PJ the Welsh Terrier Site

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 14:54:52 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: T'anks for the memories

In mail you write:

> Greetings from a newbie to the mailing list.
>
>>Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 22:45:36 -0700
>>>Subject: Re: T'anks for the memories
>> > Frankly, I expect that the optimal shape will be a spheroid or oviod of
>> > some sort. 
>> We thought about that. They make some of the most boring, dull looking
>> illustrations/miniatures you've ever seen. Yecccchhhh! 
>
>>What about the Bolo, then?
>
>> Loren Wiseman
>
> Regarding this and the other recent postings on Bolos, it seems to me
> the main obstacle to creating early to middle Mark-series Bolos is
> not so much the weapons tech as it is the level of AI available in
> Traveller rules. Besides, do you really want a Viru s-driven Bolo to
> deal with?

Actually, Bolos being intelligent already (and likely *more*
intelligent than the average virus strain) would *resist* the
"infection". There's at least one Bolo story where someone tries
subverting their programming. Getting caught at it would be rather
fatal for the virus. :-)

> I recently read a Bolo story in which a planet had some Bolos parked
> in orbit, using them as weather sattelites or something. Wouldn't
> THAT be a nasty shock to an invading force. (Nope, no system
> defenses, just a few obsolete satellites. Let's go raiding! BOOM)

Pick up a copy of L.E. Modesitt, Jr's "Adiamante". It has a "harmless"
planet. It'd require a lot of reweorking to fit Traveller, but it'd be
an *excellent* way to deal with players of the "shoot first, ask
questions later" type.

For that matter, just about *all* Modesitt's SF has things you can
steal. Especially the two series:

The Ecolitan Matter
- -------------------
The Ecologic Envoy
The Ecolitan Operation
The Ecologic Secession
The Ecolitan Enigma  (new, I haven't read it yet)

The Forever Hero
- ----------------
Dawn for a Distant Earth
Silent Warrior
In Endless Twilight

"Adiamante" and the Ecolitan stories are great at showing how to have
*subtle* threats. The Forever Hero series is less subtle, but a few
"Devilkid" NPCs would go a long ways to liveing up a game. So would
their homeworld (earth in the stories, but that can be changed).

Basicly the planet is one big toxic waste site due to a combination of
poor planning and wars. There are occasional clean pockets where some
normal humans manage to survive. The "devilkids" are a mutation caused
by the conditions. *They* can survive in the contaminated areas. And
they are "superhuman" in a number of ways. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #653
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Sunday, July 12 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 654



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Background Color - Freighters & Liners 
Re: comparing the versions
Re: "Stranded on Arden"
Re: Big Assets! (was TNE|TW2K Combat)
Re: Background Color - Freighters & Liners
Re: Trepida grav tank (was SpecOps)
Re: Fleets of the Imperium
Re: Reactivating mothballed ships
Re: SpecOps
re: Azhanti High Lightning (was re: reactivating mothballed ships)
Azhanti High Lightning
Re: Special Effects (was re: Morrow Project)
Re: RW Elite Units
Re Minor Aliens
Re: comparing the versions
Traveller items for sale on ebay
Space 1999
Imperial Fleets
Imperial Navy budget
Imperial Tanker Squadron

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 18:30:51 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Background Color - Freighters & Liners 

> Phil Kitching wrote:
> 
> [snip: lots of good stuff on trade]
> 
> >The answer is that something like a cheaper subsidised merchant wins
> >everytime because it has the same passenger/cargo mix as a free trader,
> >is cheaper per cargo ton, but is not so big that the passenger/cargo
> >rules leave it empty.
> 
> IMO subsidised merchants don't feel very realistic.  They actually pay
> you to run an inefficient ship, and would also be a very large
> temptation to "cook the books".

Subsidised merchants & liners weren't *designed* to make a killing, they were
designed to make sure that there was at least *SOME* regular trade done in an
area.  The thought behind them is, it's in the local government's interest to
get offworld stuff even if they lose money in the process.  The 'hook' for PCs
running a subbie is that they get to keep half the money the boat generates
without getting stuck with the payments.  All they have to do is cover the
usual operating expenses.

FWIW, I did some dinking around with the CT rules & found out that with a
character with Broker-2 and a half million credit stake can *EASILY* run up
the 20MCr down payment for an M-class liner (100MCr cash price) in about a
year of speculative trading, including the 1000/ton freight fees to take him
where he wants to go (with his cargo) and no less than a Middle Passage. 
Further dinking around, with a 1MCr 'holdback' from the 21MCr+ generated
in that year allowed him to make the first *5* years payments and still have a
hefty amount of cash left over, all generated during the 14 months' wait for
the boat to be delivered.

Standard subbie contracts require the boat to service their assigned line 70%
of the time, leaving about 20 weeks a year to do some *SERIOUS* adventuring. 
And there's no reason why a subbie can't pay off its loan within 5 to 10 years
doing spec trading.  It's a good way to do a Merchant Prince style campaign: 
travel to far off, strange planets, meet exotic and different cultures, and
take them for every dime they have!  <grin>

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 15:46:56 +0000
From: edjs@bitslayer.net
Subject: Re: comparing the versions

> From:          "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
> Date:          Mon, 6 Jul 1998 16:55:15 +1200
> 
> The US imports things from other parts of the same planet, not another
> planet (except maybe a few moon rocks :P ). The way I see it is with a
> populated enough planet (a couple billion or so) then there would be little
> need to import raw materials and stuff from other planets, just novelty
> items and such.

The planet may not have formed the desired raw materials (low density, never 
had a molten core, lack of suitable life-based resources).  Plus, much of the 
Imperium has been populated by industrial societies for 5-10 thousand years, 
and many worlds will have exhausted their non-renewable resources.


- --
Edward Swatschek
edjs@bitslayer.net - edjs@mindlink.net - ICQ 2684960
http://home.mindlink.net/edjs/

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 15:46:56 +0000
From: edjs@bitslayer.net
Subject: Re: "Stranded on Arden"

> From:          shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> Date:          Tue, 7 Jul 1998 00:23:49 PST
> 
> Heck, there are actually some sound reasons to site next to a large
> body of water. Besides a supply of fuel, it also makes it possible to
> do ballistic landing of some types of cargo. And given Traveller tech
> levels, water landings for ground to orbit shuttles aren't a bad idea. 
> Heck, some "frontier" type *ships* may be designed for water landings
> and takeoff. 

In one of DGP's early adventures, they had a liner (a Tukera 1000t long-liner) 
that was not designed with the internal bracing/landing legs required for 
landing (to allow more space for cargo/passangers).  If it needed to land, It 
could only do so on to a special grav cradle or in a body of water.


- --
Edward Swatschek
edjs@bitslayer.net - edjs@mindlink.net - ICQ 2684960
http://home.mindlink.net/edjs/

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 15:46:56 +0000
From: edjs@bitslayer.net
Subject: Re: Big Assets! (was TNE|TW2K Combat)

> Date:          Tue, 07 Jul 1998 00:20:45 -0500
> From:          Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
> 
> How about melee weapons?  And how about for unarmed kick and punch
> attacks..still UCD (unarmed combat damage)?

I haven't decided about unarmed combat, but I figure on something like the 
table above, but less chance of lethal damage, skill having more of an effect 
on wound levels, and the use of CON/Endurance somewhat like in CT.


- --
Edward Swatschek
edjs@bitslayer.net - edjs@mindlink.net - ICQ 2684960
http://home.mindlink.net/edjs/

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 15:46:55 +0000
From: edjs@bitslayer.net
Subject: Re: Background Color - Freighters & Liners

> From:          "Buston, John" <john.buston@eds.com>
> Date:          Sat, 11 Jul 1998 20:19:34 +0100
> 
> IMO subsidised merchants don't feel very realistic.  They actually pay
> you to run an inefficient ship, and would also be a very large
> temptation to "cook the books".

I have no trouble seeing them exist, since they are inteanded to run on routes 
that are unable to attract regular commercial service.  And, governments have 
shown an amazing ability to back enefficient and downright losing businesses, 
with or without books flambe. (At least, contemporay governments like the 
Canadian one have.)


- --
Edward Swatschek
edjs@bitslayer.net - edjs@mindlink.net - ICQ 2684960
http://home.mindlink.net/edjs/

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 19:51:16 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Trepida grav tank (was SpecOps)

> >What is a Trepida grav tank?  Are there stats?

> I think it was detailed, in several configurations, in a TNE sourcebook as

The Regency Combat Vehicle Guide.  An awesome supplement of some 40 Regency
Combat Vehicles in FF&S detail.  Only one (the "Norris" TL-15 Trepida Mk III)
was not availble in Imperial Forces.  There were several developments of the
Trepida line...

> well. The tank illustrated in the main TNE book is *not* a Trepida, at

No, that's a Solomani "Grav Tank"  (they put that designation to give comfort
in the crews who were going to die in that piece of junk).  The Reformation
Coalition redesignated it as a Support Sled (or something like that).

> least according to _101 Vehicles_, in which this was a TL 12 grav tank
> popular with mercs (the name of which I cannot remember).

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 19:51:14 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fleets of the Imperium

> Move about outside the 100 diameter limit in a semi-random
> manner and _never be withing weapon range of wherever you were one and
> two weeks ago.

Due to C-lag, one of the first places at least scouts go to, if not entire
attacking fleets, is at the same spot (well outside of 100 dia).  Even if you
don't come out near the defense that's out there (which is unlikely IMO due to
the vast volume of space out there), you're going to see the Native (qv) ship,
or where it was a few hours ago.  The Native ship has no chance to detect the
intruder however do to the fact that the Intruder wasn't there a few hours
ago.  The concepts of C-lag, native, and intruder are all in the Regency
Sourcebook.  

Plus, as Bruce pointed out, your BBs way out on the fringes can't get back to
defend the world they're there for.  With that set up u're going to see
either:

A) Walt Smith's (?) 6BBs (and escorts) going into to pound (or occupy) the
main world before the native BBs (2 in the hypotethical) can get back to
defend them.  

or...

B)  A large number of bogeys inbound to overwhelm the inferior native forces..
Either you flee or are destroyed and your mainworld is still at the mercy of
the objectives of the enemy.

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 19:51:17 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Reactivating mothballed ships

Its best to say that TCS and Striker don't accurately simulate the Third
Imperium.  Or Pocket Empires, for that matter.  The dynamic is too complex to
accurately portray for anything that will remain fun.  It's good for setting
up a "minor" polity of a few dozen star systems but breaks down when u get
into the hundreds (much less thousands).

Say Trin does put out a few thousand Tigresses in a few years.  Where do they
get the crews for them?  I'm sure the US could crank out a couple hundred
nuclear carriers in 5 years, but is it feasable?  Logistics and such
necessitate too many noncombatants (admin, supply, etc types) for that to be
realistic.

The Azhanti High Lightnings were reactivated for the Aslan anyways.  Arrival
Vengeance was diverted for other uses (namely a recon of the Shattered
Imperium).  There's only 6 left in the entire Domain of Deneb (all
decommissioned) that are recommissioned for the Aslan (though we all know the
mission Arrival Vengeance was diverted to).

I don't think you do starship combat much, Hans, if you don't know how much 2G
sucks versus 6G.  That 6G ship is going to have a major advantage.

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 19:58:47 -0400
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: SpecOps

- -----Original Message-----
From: Michael and MJ Houghton <herveus@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: SpecOps


>> NEO? ZSU?
>Noncombatant Evacuation Operation
>ZSU = Soviet designator for Anti-Aircraft Artillery (eg, ZSU-37 = quad-37mm
>tracked mount (very nasty) (I think I got the number right))
>>
>> --
>> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>>
>yours,
>Michael
>
Actually it is ZSU 57-2 standing for ZSU Armored, tracked vehicle; with 57mm
guns; mounting two of them.  You're probably thinking of the ZSU 23-4 which
is a quad mount of 23mm guns on the same ZSU chassis.  These also sported a
radar system that was considered the only true nemesis of our helicopter
forces after 1972.

Thom Harris

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 17:03:22 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: Azhanti High Lightning (was re: reactivating mothballed ships)

 
>I think they kept the AHL's around for two reasons: 
>1) AHL is Jump-5.
Basically true - it makes them more effective as raiders, though, 
not as part of a battle fleet
 
>And even with it's agility-5, I think the _Gionetti_ would have problems
>with an AHL
The first ship to get a hit with its meson spinal wins. 3G acceleration
difference means that the Gionetti will get that hit about twice as often.
In High Guard, fighters - especially light fighters - are decorative.

>2) Cost Effectiveness - there are a lot of tasks that need doing
Also true.

My main point was theat the original thread was about reactivating ships,
and why the hard-pressed Domain hadn't reactivated the AHLs sooner; I was
suggesting that - if they have a whole bunch of ships in reserve - the AHLs
would be fairly low on the list to reactivate, not that they should have
been scrapped or anything. I love the observation lounge too...

(Sigh. I miss the days when Traveller shoud;/could undertake projects that
big...) Those were *great* deckplans. 

With their mixed armaments and fighter complement thae AHLs make great ships
for defending against non-capital Vargr raiders, though.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 00:15:34 -0400
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: Azhanti High Lightning

Bruce Allan Macintosh wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>And even with it's agility-5, I think the _Gionetti_ would have problems
>with an AHL
The first ship to get a hit with its meson spinal wins. 3G acceleration
difference means that the Gionetti will get that hit about twice as often.
In High Guard, fighters - especially light fighters - are decorative.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The AHL's meson screen helps here (Gionetti has none).

And fighters aren't decorative, if you realize that you can build a
pile of 2000-ton escorts that will get an appreciable number of hits
with their bay weapon of choice on even a 6G, Agility-6 capital ship.
They won't hurt it lots, but they can chip away at weapon battery factors
and fuel tankage. Your Spinal Mount is a Weapon Battery. With the
tight design specs usually in use, it takes very, very few Fuel-1
hits to cut an entire parsec off a starship's jump range. 97% of the
fuel to make Jump-4 means you don't get to join your fleet four parsecs
from here after you get your butt kicked.

The only problem with this pile of Torpedo-Boat style escorts is that
it's hard to make them resistant to a swarm of ship-killer fightercraft.
You can either carry a slingshot that might hurt goliath, or you can
carry enough armor and anti-fighter turrets to ignore the little beggars,
but you can't do both. Not without making a bigger ship, and making
a lot fewer of them. And it takes a _lot_ of these "Slingshot Davids"
to make a difference.

If you're dreadnaught is busy in a slugging match with my battleship,
and my torpedo frigates are unmolested, they can nibble you to death.
Fighters are a cheap way to molest them. Anti-fighter fighters are a
cheap way to let the frigates work unmolested.

Not to mention the classic method of "working your way up the
food chain"...
Your fighters win the fighter-vs-fighter battle.
Your fighters help your escorts win the escorts-vs-escorts battle.
Your escorts help your cruisers win the cruisers-vs-cruisers battle.
Your cruisers help your battleships win the battleship-vs-battleship
battle.

The smaller ships have a role beyond adding color to your fleet.
An all-battleship navy, as someone once said, is a very bad naval
assets investment - but I wouldn't want to be the first country they
got mad at. <g>

Not to mention:
In the particular case of this hypothetical single-ship duel, the
Rampart missile-armed fighters were designed to fire with datalinks,
allowing them to act like reasonably high-factor missile batteries.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:08:11 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Special Effects (was re: Morrow Project)

At 08:01 pm 7/10/98 PST, you wrote:
>> What kind of explosion do you get when one hits a tank?
>
>Depends on the mass and velocity of the projectile. The rule of
thumb
>is that at 3 km/sec an object has kinetic energy equal to its mass
in
>TNT. And it increases as the square of the velocity (twice as fast =
>four times the energy).
>
>So figure 25 kilos at 11 km/sec is equivalent to a third of a ton of
>TNT. All concentrated on the point of impact. Ouch!
>
>For the silo busters, let's figure 500 kilos (half a ton). Which
gives
>us 6.7 kilotons. (20 times the mass, 20 times the energy)

	And as a completely minor side-effect, depleted uranium is
pyrophoric--when it vaporizes, the vapor becomes explosive. But
you'll never notice that part ...

- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:15:59 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: RW Elite Units

At 10:05 am 7/11/98 -0700, you wrote:
>At 02:05 PM 7/10/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>>US Army: Airborne, Rangers (many of whom are also airborne)
>
>While some people who go to the ranger School are not Ariborne, all
three
>Ranger Battalions are Airborne units.  You have to be Airborne to be
in a
>Batt.
>
>In addition, just about anybody can go through Airborne School.. the
82nd
>is hardly an elite unit with 14,000 soldiers.

	*I* could have gone to Airborne School, and would have had my unit
had an extra training slot. Which, if you know me, would strike you
rather humorous. College ROTC students regularly go to Airborne
School, and not just Army ROTC, either. It's basically initial
parachute training with the usual Army attitude and calisthenics
thrown in. I figured I'd skip the attitude and just pay to learn how
to jump out of perfectly good airplane. My jumpmaster and instructor
was an Air Force captain who'd been sent home from the Army's HALO
(High-Altitude Low Opening) jump school because he wasn't taking it
seriously (a veteran skydiver, certified instructor and jumpmaster,
he had more jumps under his belt than most of the instructors)

- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 20:34:19 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re Minor Aliens

>I guess I am trying to see if anyone out there had any rules structure for
>them, or any other minor race.
>Is there a Library structure for the minors????
>Might be interesting
>Steven McKenzie
>Lord Leo Aquila
>Luceo Non Uro

Traveller Chronicle has Vegan generation for TNE.

Peter Newman (on this list) has a minor human race he created for one of my
games, who are esentially only slightly different from normal.

A few minor races were presented in JTAS, including Dolphins (T. Galactis),
and a minor race subject to the K'Kree both come to mind, both for CT.

A few more (The H'lassani, for one) appeared for MT in Challenge Magazine.

A note on using dolphins as PC's/NPC's in MT: to find MT Hits value, use
total of CT damage to unconsciousness + damage to death totals as life
force. Note that dolphins, as presented in JTAS/Best of JTAS, were
presented as a Bestiary entry, even tho' they were sophonts, and thus do
not have Str, Dex, or End values. (I assumed 1d of hits represented Dex,
others split evenly between Str and End; YMMV.)

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 21:40:46 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: comparing the versions

In mail you write:

>> From:          "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
>> Date:          Mon, 6 Jul 1998 16:55:15 +1200
>> 
>> The US imports things from other parts of the same planet, not another
>> planet (except maybe a few moon rocks :P ). The way I see it is with a
>> populated enough planet (a couple billion or so) then there would be little
>> need to import raw materials and stuff from other planets, just novelty
>> items and such.
>
> The planet may not have formed the desired raw materials (low
> density, never had a molten core, lack of suitable life-based
> resources). Plus, much of the Imperium has been populated by
> industrial societies for 5-10 thousand years, and many worlds will
> have exhausted their non-renewable resources.

Rececyling will be *very* common on such planets. Hell, it's a good bet
that in less than 50 years people will be "mining" old dump sites for
the metals (and maybe even plastics).

Also, unless I grossly mis-remember shipping costs, shipping things
between continents here on Earth costs about the same as shipping
things between planets in Traveller.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 00:56:18 -0500
From: Paul Kerby <ybrekp@mtco.com>
Subject: Traveller items for sale on ebay

Sorry for the bandwidth interruption.  I have some Traveller auctions on
ebay that people
may be interested in.

Judges guild sector maps:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=20952758

Alien modules:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=20953940

Thanks for your attention.  We now return you to your regular
discussions

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 15:09:34
From: Paolo Marino <marino@inrete.it>
Subject: Space 1999

A couple digests ago someone asked for the precise date of moon's departure
according the Space 1999 TV series. I've just perused an old Italian SF
fanzine (editor wants to do a www version...) and it says that the date was
given as September 12, 1999.



__  Paolo Marino  __          |Inrete Games Page: www.inrete.it/games/gms.html
 mc4799@mclink.it (Preferred) | marino@inrete.it (Best for MIME/BinHex)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 15:32:22 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Imperial Fleets

Here is my take on the hypothetical average Imperial fleet:

9 combat squadrons @ 14 ships (half 10,000 T escorts).

Ratio of battleships:cruisers:escorts = 3:7:10

3 BatRons @ 7 battleships + 7 escorts
6 CruRons @ 7 cruisers + 7 escorts
1 TankRon (see separate message for composition)

Average size of battleship = 300,000 T
Average size of cruiser = 50,000 T
Average size of escort = 10,000 T

Average size of BatRon =   2,170,000
Average size of CruRon =     420,000
Average size of TankRon =  3,000,000

Total tonnage:

3 BatRons @ 2,800,000 T =       6,510,000 T
6 CruRons @ 420,000 T =         2,520,000 T
1 TankRon                       3,000,000 T
100 Fleet Couriers                 40,000 T
100 Scouts                         10,000 T
40 assorted small fry             120,000 T
                               ------------
                               12,200,000 T 


Average cost of battleship =      206,000 MCr
Average cost of cruiser =	   29,500 MCr
Average cost of escort =	    6,500 MCr

Average cost of a BatRon =      1,487,500 MCr
Average cost of a CruRon =        252,000 MCr
Average cost of a TankRon =     1,124,000 MCr
Cost of Fleet Courier =              ~250 MCr
Cost of Scout =                       ~30 MCr
Average cost of small fry =         2,500 MCr

Total cost:

3 BatRons @ MCr1,487,500 =      4,462,500 MCr
6 CruRons @ MCr252,000 =        1,512,000 MCr
1 TankRon @                     1,124,000 MCr
100 Fleet Couriers @ MCr250 =      25,000 MCr
100 Scouts @ MCr30 =                3,000 MCr
40 small fry @ MCr2,500 =         100,000 MCr
                                -------------
                                7,226,500 MCr



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 15:35:30 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Imperial Navy budget

I've made a stab at arriving at a slightly more exact figure for the Imperial
taxes available for the Classic Era fleet. I've gone through Deneb Sector as
representative of a frontier sector and Massilia Sector as representative of
a core sector and noted down all the high-population planets and worked out
their contribution, turning everything into Crimp. The result was roughly
TCr350/subsector for Deneb (I didn't count the three almost empty subsectors)
and roughly TCr550/subsector for Massilia. Taking the average, TCr450, and
multiplying by the number of subsectors in the Imperium (about 300) I get a
yearly GWP of TCr135,000. (Including the medium-population worlds would up
that by slightli less than 3%.(

1% of that would be the Imperial cut of the military budget: TCr 1,350. Of
this half would go to the colonial fleets. The remainder, TCr675, corresponds
to a regular fleet worth TCr6,750.

320 fleets of the size I propose in another message will cost @ 7.3 TCr =
TCr2,336, or about 34% of that.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8
 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 15:37:42 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Imperial Tanker Squadron

IMPERIAL TANKER SQUADRONS
=========================

The Imperial tanker squadrons in _Fifth Frontier War_ has a jump factor of
three and is capable of refuelling themselves once. So they at least carry
60% fuel.


FLEET TANKER (High Guard design)

                                 Volume     Power      Cost
HULL   1,000,000 T Dispersed  1,000,000         0    50,000
  0 points armor (0%)                 0         0         0
ENGINEERING                                             
  Jump 6 drive (4%) [1]         -40,000         0   160,000             
  Maneuver drive 2 (5%)         -50,000         0    25,000             
  Power Plant 3 (3%)            -30,000    30,000    90,000
  Fuel tankage                 -300,000         0         0
  Power plant fuel (3%)         -30,000         0         0
BRIDGE (2%)                     -20,000         0     5,000
  Computer model 9fib               -26       -12       200              
WEAPONS
  1 factor T Meson gun           -7,000    -1,200     1,000
  70 100 T bays                  -7,000         0         0
    60 factor 9 PAs                   0    -3,600     2,100
    10 factor 9 repulsors             0      -100       100
  100 50 T bays                  -5,000         0         0
    100 factor 9 missile              0         0     1,200
  500 1 T turrets                  -500         0         0
    50 factor 9 beam laser batteries  0    -1,500     1,500  
  Factor 9 nuclear damper           -20       -90        50
  Factor 8 Meson screen             -40      -900        60
ACCOMODATIONS
  2588 staterooms               -10,352         0     1,294
SMALL CRAFT HANGAR                  -52         0         1
  40 T pinnace                        0         0        20
CARGO SPACE                         -10         0         0
                             --------------------------
                                      0    22,598   337,525 = 270,020

Crew:

Command:       500
Engineering: 1,200
Gunnery:       468
Crew:        3,000
               ---
             5,168

[1] The design is capable of jump-6 if it is not carrying more than one
    module (rider/shuttle/fuel tank). Performance deteriorates thus:

    Carrying 1 module           Jump 6
       -"-   2 modules          Jump 5
       -"-   3   -"-            Jump 5
       -"-   4   -"-            Jump 4
       -"-   5   -"-            Jump 4
       -"-   6   -"-            Jump 4
       -"-   7 or more modules  Jump 3



ARMED FUEL SHUTTLE (High Guard design) TL 15

                                 Volume   Power    Cost               
HULL      50,000 T Close st.     50,000       0   3,000
  3 points armor (4%)             2,000       0   1,200
ENGINEERING
  Jump 0 drive                        0       0       0              
  Maneuver drive 3 (8%)          -4,000       0   2,000             
  Power Plant 3 (3%)             -1,500   1,500   4,500
  Fuel purifier plant               -60       0       1
  Fuel tankage                  -40,000       0       0
  Power plant fuel (1 day)          -50       0       0
BRIDGE (2%)                      -1,000       0     250
  Computer model 9fib               -26     -12     200              
WEAPONS
  5 100 T bays                     -500       0       0
    1 factor 9 Meson gun              0    -200      70
    4 factor 9 PAs                    0    -240     140
  4 50 T bays                      -200       0       0
    5 factor 9 missile                0       0      48
  5 factor 9 beam laser batteries   -50    -150     150
  Factor 9 nuclear damper           -20     -90      50
  Factor 8 Meson screen             -30    -800      50
ACCOMODATIONS
  136 staterooms                   -544       0      68
CARGO SPACE                         -20       0       0
                             --------------------------
                                      0       8  11,727 = 9382

Crew:

Command:        25
Engineering:    55
Gunnery:        33
Crew:          150
               ---
               263


A Fleet Tanker carrying 5 Fuel Shuttles and 5 Fuel tanks can carry 750,000 T
of fuel and can refuel in 4 runs. After performing a jump-3 it will have
450,000 T of fuel left. This means it can refuel itself and 500,000 T of
escorting ships. It will need cruisers and escorts to protect itself and
escorts to escort the fuel shuttles and kick the snot out of any SDBs unlucky
enough to lurk just where they chose to refuel. I suggest 5 cruisers and 25
escorts would be reasonable.

The average BatRon masses 2,170,000 T. If it is a jump-4 squadron, it
requires 868,000 T of fuel to refuel. The Average CruRon is 420,000 T and
would require 168,000 T to refuel it. Two fleet tankers carries 900,000 T of
excess fuel and would thus be able to refuel 1 BatRon or 5 CruRons. I suggest
that a TankRon consists of 2 Fleet Tankers (plus their escorts). Thus a
TankRon would consist of:

                          Tonnage          Cost
2 Fleet Tankers         2,000,000       504,000
10 cruisers               500,000       295,000
50 escorts                500,000       325,000
- -----------------------------------------------
Total                   3,000,000     1,124,000

(Actually, if I was doing it for a TCS campaign, I'd rework the Fleet Tanker
into a 400,000 T design and put five of them in a TankRon. That way a single
Fleet Tender could be detached and service one average CruRon if the need
arose. But the tonnage would be the same and the cost almost the same, so I
can't be bothered. Anyway, we know that at least one 1,000,000 T Fleet Tender
design exists (The _Gorodish_).


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #654
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Sunday, July 12 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 655



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Fleets of the Imperium
Re: Imperial Navy budget
Re: RW Elite Units
Re: Reactivating mothballed ships
re: Azhanti High Lightning
Re: RW Elite Units
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Re: RW Elite Units
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Atlas of the Imperium
Re: Azhanti High Lightning (was re: reactivating mothballed ships)
Imperial Tankers (in canon)
Re: Trepida grav tank (was SpecOps)
re: Marshall's Theories
Re: Guns part II
Re Minor Aliens
Re: [LONG] BITS/CORE Products first impressions >
Re: Guns part II
Re: Trepida grav tank (was SpecOps)
Re: Trepida grav tank (was SpecOps)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 16:16:52 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Fleets of the Imperium

Gary (TravelrTNE@aol.com) writes:

>>Move about outside the 100 diameter limit in a semi-random
>>manner and _never be withing weapon range of wherever you were one and
>>two weeks ago.
> 
>Due to C-lag, one of the first places at least scouts go to, if not entire
>attacking fleets, is at the same spot (well outside of 100 dia).

I said outside, not well outside. That would be, what, 3 light seconds? Or
am I making a mistake in calculations?

>The concepts of C-lag, native, and intruder are all in the Regency
>Sourcebook.  

This is the kind of supercillious, condescending remark that has been known
to start flame wars. You should have seen the first reply I drafted (Or
rather, you shouldn't ;-).
 
>Plus, as Bruce pointed out, your BBs way out on the fringes can't get back
>to defend the world they're there for.

They can get to it as fast as the attacker can. If they chose.

>With that set up u're going to see either:
> 
>B)  A large number of bogeys inbound to overwhelm the inferior native
>forces... 

I can't resist the temptation to return you one supercillious, condescending
remark. Here goes: As you would know if you had actually read what I wrote,
jumping in withing firing range of the defending fleet is dangerous because
your information is at least one week out of date (usually two) and there is
no way you can know if the defender has recieved reinforcements. And if he
has, your attacking forces are toast, toast, toast.

If all you have is 8 battleships, then spreading them out like that is
propably not a good idea. But if you have a number of other BatRons it
may not be that bad an idea. 

>Either you flee or are destroyed and your mainworld is still
>at the mercy of the objectives of the enemy.

Walt didn't have the defenders two BB squadrons defending their mainworld,
but some of their lesser worlds.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 07:16:04 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Imperial Navy budget

At 03:35 PM 7/12/98 +0200, you wrote:

>1% of that would be the Imperial cut of the military budget: TCr 1,350. Of
>this half would go to the colonial fleets. The remainder, TCr675,
>corresponds to a regular fleet worth TCr6,750.
>
>320 fleets of the size I propose in another message will cost @ 7.3 TCr =
>TCr2,336, or about 34% of that.

Include the cost of personel, ammo, parts and repairs, bases, The Marine
Force, etc., this seems about right.
- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
jt- au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 07:21:04 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: RW Elite Units

At 10:15 PM 7/11/98 -0600, you wrote:

>	*I* could have gone to Airborne School, and would have had my unit
>had an extra training slot. Which, if you know me, would strike you
>rather humorous. College ROTC students regularly go to Airborne
>School, and not just Army ROTC, either. It's basically initial
>parachute training with the usual Army attitude and calisthenics
>thrown in.

No offense Dave, but there is a world of difference between learning to
parachute and leaving a C-130 from 300 feet in total darkness with 85lbs of
equipment. 
- --

+--------------------------------------+
|Douglas E. Berry    dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/     |
+--------------------------------------+
| "In the long run luck is given       |
|  only to the efficient."             |
|     -Helmuth von Moltke, German Army |
+--------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 17:11:05 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Reactivating mothballed ships

Gary (TravelrTNE@aol.com) writes:

>Its best to say that TCS and Striker don't accurately simulate the Third
>Imperium.

_Striker_ specifically mentions the Imperium. As for _TCS_, it reflects
the same basic realities (supposedly) as exists in the Imperium. Thus any
difference between conditions in the Imperium and _TCS_ rules ought IMO to
be thoroughly examined and justified. 

>Or Pocket Empires, for that matter. The dynamic is too complex to accurately
>portray for anything that will remain fun.

I don't expect accuracy from a RPG. I do want ('expect' is not the right
word ;-) consistency.
 
>It's good for setting up a "minor" polity of a few dozen star systems but
>breaks down when u get into the hundreds (much less thousands).

Actually, I think it's quite possible to work out something that fits both
TCS and Striker.

>Say Trin does put out a few thousand Tigresses in a few years.  Where do they
>get the crews for them?

2,000 Tigresses? That would require 8 million crew. Trin alone could easily
supply that, given time to train them; its less than 1/1000th of its
population. As for cadre, at a very rough estimate, the Domain has at least
16.5 million people serving in the active forces (regular, colonial, and
planetary).

>I'm sure the US could crank out a couple hundred nuclear carriers in 5
>years, but is it feasable?  Logistics and such necessitate too many
>noncombatants (admin, supply, etc types) for that to be realistic.

Less than 1/1000th of the population of Trin alone? Try working out the
total population of the Domain.

>The Azhanti High Lightnings were reactivated for the Aslan anyways.

Well, I hope the third time is the charm. For the third time: That's the
central problem! Let me see if I can make it clearer:

1) The Domain of Deneb went on a war footing because Norris feared that
   the Zhodani would take advantage of the situation to invade. Eventually
   he realized differently, but in the meantime the Aslans and the Vargr
   had invaded.

2) Presumably Norris didn't go back to a peacetime mobilization while
   roughly half his domain was either threatened or in the hands of the
   Aslans and the Vargr. (Note: I don't believe that the Aslans and the
   Vargr had the strength to do anything like that, but that's what the
   canon says they did).

3) Since quite a few subsectors formerly part of the Domain is not under
   Norris' control in 1124, his navy apparently got the snot beat out of
   them (Again, I don't really believe that that is plausible, but that's
   what the canon says).

4) If the navy is getting the snot kicked out of them, presumably they
   can find a use even for such poor ships as Azhantis. And it only takes
   1/10th the time to reactivate them that it takes to build new ones.

5) So if the Azhantis wasn't reactivated, then it wasn't because the navy
   couldn't use them, but because the shipyards had more important things
   to do.

The question is: What? Just saying that the yards had better things to do
begs the question. That's like answering the question "How isa Louie the
Dip supposed to have plundered Fort Knox?" with "Easy. The doors were open
and all the guards gone!".

>There's only 6 left in the entire Domain of Deneb (all decommissioned)

I can't quote you chapter and verse because I don't have the books with me,
but I'm almost sure you're wrong about that.

>I don't think you do starship combat much, Hans, if you don't know how much
>2G sucks versus 6G.  That 6G ship is going to have a major advantage.

Well, that's true enough. I don't do starship combat much. It's also the
most unresponsive answer I can recall ever recieving, since you don't
explain anything. But don't bother yourself, I dug out my _High Guard_
and found out for myself. And I was right in the general sense:
acceleration does not in itself convey any advantage in combat. What is
does is enable the ship to use any agility it may have. And agility does
have a large influence. I also checked my _Fighting Ships_ and found that
you were right in the specific: A Gionetti (which is a 5G ship, BTW) can
indeed deal harshly with an Azhanti. Not only does it have a +5 defensive
bonus due to its agility where the Azhanti has none, it also has a +3 to
attack and +3 to defense due to the difference in the computers (If I were
reactivating Azhantis, I would take the opportunity to rip out the computer
and install a factor 9 (Or factor 10; are Vincennes making factor 10
computers yet, do you think?).

But how you jump from the fact that a Gionetti is a better ship than an
Azhanti to the conclusion that the Imperial navy would have no use for
Azhantis escapes me completely.




      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 08:18:56 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: Azhanti High Lightning

>The only problem with this pile of Torpedo-Boat style escorts is that
>it's hard to make them resistant to a swarm of ship-killer fightercraft.
In classic High Guard, any fast ship carrying a Mod/9 was essentially
immune to light fighters.

(Though in a more realistic system this isn't necessarily true, of 
course.)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 10:21:03 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: RW Elite Units

At 07:21 am 7/12/98 -0700, you wrote:
>At 10:15 PM 7/11/98 -0600, you wrote:
>
>>	*I* could have gone to Airborne School, and would have had my unit
>>had an extra training slot. Which, if you know me, would strike you
>>rather humorous. College ROTC students regularly go to Airborne
>>School, and not just Army ROTC, either. It's basically initial
>>parachute training with the usual Army attitude and calisthenics
>>thrown in.
>
>No offense Dave, but there is a world of difference between learning
to
>parachute and leaving a C-130 from 300 feet in total darkness with
85lbs of
>equipment. 

	No argument there--the guy I learned from did just that, under fire,
during the invasion of Panama. No point in carrying a reserve chute
on that kind of mission. My unit was a Tactical Air Support
Squadron--over half our pilots were jump qualified, because their
primary job was not to fly, but to hump around on the ground with the
Army as forward air controllers and air liaison officers. Crazy guys,
as I found out one year, during the annual parachute water survival
qualification. Normally, all you do is hook a parachute harness to a
speedboat and prove you can get out of the harness while being
dragged through the water, to simulate an over-water bailout. THESE
guys, however ... Have you ever seen a Marine Corps OV-10D Bronco?
The back hatch is removed and left in the hangar, and there's four or
five guys sitting on the floor, with their backs to the open door.
The guy in the very back has a single strap behind his hips holding
him in. The pilot comes in literally at treetop level, pulls back
hard on the stick, and goes into a 45-degree climb. The guy in back
releases his strap and all four fall out of the plane at about two or
three hundred feet, and then the pilot does a hammerhead stall and
dives back down to tree level. The Marines use this to insert recon
teams behind the lines ... our guys did it for fun to liven up the
boring water survival qual.

	But from my understanding, Airborne school itself is just the jump
training. It's only when you actually get assigned to an Airborne
unit that you start having to deal with the hairier aspect of it.
Those guys I respect. The pimply-faced ROTC cadets strutting around
because they went to Airborne school over the summer ...
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 15:51:01 -0700
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

Sinbad Sam writes:
At 08:44 PM 7/7/98 , Mark Urbin wrote:
>SWAT are fairly common, lets see (Arlington, Dallas, Fort Worth, Irving,
>Grand Prairie, Benbrook, Mansfield, Aledo, and Richardson) police SWAT,
>County Sheriff SWAT, Department of Public Safety SWAT, FBI SWAT, US
>Marshall SWAT. each with atleaat 4 team members 13 times 4 is 52, which
>will be a gross underestimate. 

    Do each of these SWAT teams maintain the level of training of the FBI HRT?
These guys get a higher level of training, but are they at that constant
training level that takes major time and money to maintain.

>As for former SEAL members and former
>snipers I can name four former SEAL's in my area(I work with one, another
>was in the SEAL precursor group), 

Would that be UDT?  There are still UDT teams.  I used to work with a
former UDT.  As for why he didn't go for SEALs, "I'm crazy, but I'm not
*that* crazy." was his answer.

>and at least one former military sniper(Not you Doug). 
>Also we have several iron silhouette shooting groups
>in the area around 100 memebers in the DFW area. 

The iron silhouette guys are in a different class than the snipers.  I'm a
fairly decent shot when I'm in practice, but I only shoot paper.

>So there are more awesome shooters than you think. 
    Good.

>I perefer to let the skill determine whether or
>not you hit. High skill low chance of missing works for me.

     I don't use the 17-20 miss rule for sniping myself.

>>    Big time awesome and rare shooters.  Remember that to get it's 'hit the
>>target with the first shot no matter what the conditions' ability, SEAL
>>Team Six had a bigger ammo budget than the entire US Marine Corps.
>SEAL 6 had bigger budget than the USMC, that is I would have see those
>figures, in other words I don't believe it, someone has exagerated a wee
>bit. Just remember that just because it says ammo in the budget does not
>mean that they will actually buy ammo it might be other Non PC thingees.

   This was according to the autobiography of the founder, who is an
admittedly a loon.
(Do you really want a sane person for that job?)  He also claims that Six
doesn't 
maintain that level of training anymore either.

>>    I'd argue the listing of Lee Harvey Oswald.  According to his Marine
>>records, he was fair shot at best.  
>>Either he got real lucky or start looking toward the grassy knoll... :-)
>He is listed *officially* as the *lone* sniper of JFK, three shots with a
>mediocre rifle and scope in record time, all hitting a target. The
>Leatherwood brothers would be proud to make such a shots on a *non* US
>political figure.

    So would anyother world class sniper.  LHO must have put in a lot of
range time since his Marine days.


- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for 
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked" 
                 http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 10:10:33 -0700
From: Skoal <skoal@mail.gci-net.com>
Subject: Re: RW Elite Units

At 10:21 AM 7/12/98 -0600, you wrote:

>
>	But from my understanding, Airborne school itself is just the jump
>training. It's only when you actually get assigned to an Airborne
>unit that you start having to deal with the hairier aspect of it.
>Those guys I respect. The pimply-faced ROTC cadets strutting around
>because they went to Airborne school over the summer ...

Three weeks of living hell at Ft. Benning Ga..
I can recall a load of ROTC cadets getting washing out every June-July
and the one who made it, thought they were god..

But give me the ground anyday.


The Official Firebase Games Web Site
http://freespace.virgin.net/em.bis/panzer88/index.html


                 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 12:41:51 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

At 05:51 PM 7/9/98 , Mark Urbin wrote:
>Sinbad Sam writes:
>At 08:44 PM 7/7/98 , Mark Urbin wrote:
>>SWAT are fairly common, lets see (Arlington, Dallas, Fort Worth, Irving,
>>Grand Prairie, Benbrook, Mansfield, Aledo, and Richardson) police SWAT,
>>County Sheriff SWAT, Department of Public Safety SWAT, FBI SWAT, US
>>Marshall SWAT. each with atleaat 4 team members 13 times 4 is 52, which
>>will be a gross underestimate. 
>
>    Do each of these SWAT teams maintain the level of training of the FBI
HRT?
>These guys get a higher level of training, but are they at that constant
>training level that takes major time and money to maintain.

Well each SWAT team has varying levels of training but all have more than
3x than *normal* police officers. The major city SWAT and Federal SWAT will
have the higher levels of training for SWAT. By the way if you want to get
some *interesting* looks talk to a police officer about the his
department's SWAT team training info and tyr to get specifics.<G>

>>As for former SEAL members and former
>>snipers I can name four former SEAL's in my area(I work with one, another
>>was in the SEAL precursor group), 
>
>Would that be UDT?  There are still UDT teams.  I used to work with a
>former UDT.  As for why he didn't go for SEALs, "I'm crazy, but I'm not
>*that* crazy." was his answer.

No there was a precusor team a *step* up from UDT but before SEAL team was
finalized, you might call it beta test for the concept. Once the bugs were
worked out it became the SEALS. Todays SEALS are *different* from the
founding SEALS types.

Sinbad Sam
sinbad@hex.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 13:21:31 -0700
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Atlas of the Imperium

Does anyone have a copy, or a line on a copy, for sale?

douglas

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 16:28:28 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Azhanti High Lightning (was re: reactivating mothballed ships)

Isn't that why they were called fleet intruders (which I interpret as raiders
and/or scouts), and then frontier cruisers (which I intrepret as 2nd. line
utility ships)?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 12:46:12 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Imperial Tankers (in canon)

In MT Fighting Ships, the tankers come in two sizes: 500KTd and 200KTd.

The 500KTd carries 300KTd of fuel, with 1G and J3.

The 200 KTd carries 120 (Book has typo) FOR DISTRIBUTION; roughly 3x own fuel.

Both use 1000Td fuel shuttles.

The flexibility of smaller tankers, especially if you assume normal
distributions is in TG's of 2 or 3 cruisers plus escorts, is much better in
operational deployment for the frontiers.

I agree with Hans' basic premises that fighters are quite valuable (even if
HG didn't make them particularly valuable) based upon using vector based
systems (BL, Mayday, Bk3, my modifications to use MT Vehicular Combat
rules).

One point to consider: like WW2 in the pacific, a fleet battle can only be
forced when one side or another cannot leave. Most battles will be fought
around fuel sources or populations; items of strategic value which cannot
escape. And don't discount battles around worlds... Few captains will risk
court martial for "Allowing a planet to Fall" (Treason, or at least Failure
to follow instructions). At least a token resistance; if at all possible,
they will try to lure the enemy around the planet so as to allow plandef to
fire. Also, keep in mind that grav-tanks can and will go orbital in order
to assist in defense.

Taking a planet requires an inbound phase anyway, and meeting engagements
can become single pass engagements quickly if the outbound force is
outnumbered.

Tanker ops do play a part in the offensive campaign: Jump in to the
outsystem, refuel on the inbound, and be able to retreat if enemy forces
are too high. The distance out is set to allow for inbound refuel before
engagement, with the tankers retreating before combat.

Those 2G AHL's may not be able to go far nor fast sublight, but they CAN
AND WILL use staged engagement: Fighters go in and soften up targets'
defensive batteries (this works even under HG, if you use enough of them);
then the slower cruisers come in with heavy missile barrages and spinals
and bays. While the faster ships may be able to shorten the exposure times,
under newtonian (or gamer's vector semi-newtonian ala mayday/bl),
engagements are either single pass or by consent, even where consent is
forced by orders to defend.


William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 16:49:06 -0500
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: Re: Trepida grav tank (was SpecOps)

>The Regency Combat Vehicle Guide.  An awesome supplement of some 40 Regency
>Combat Vehicles in FF&S detail.  Only one (the "Norris" TL-15 Trepida Mk
III)
>was not availble in Imperial Forces.  There were several developments of
the
>Trepida line...


You know, I took a look at the RCVG yesterday to see the stats for this
tank, and I noticed it had an AV of 258, but in the description it was said
to have the equivalent of 2.5 meters steel protection. Now, correct me if
I'm wrong, but according to FF&S1, 1 cm of hard steel is equal to an AV 2.
This would make the armor protection of the Trepida 1.29 meters, not 2.5,
wouldn't it (since it would be figured 258/2 = 129 cm)?

Ciao,

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 23:03:25 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Marshall's Theories

Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com> wrote:

>  Was it also the lack of physical fitness of conscripts in the 1st
>World war (or was it earlier) that gave us the heritage of  Physical
>Education, and free milk in schools (well in the UK)

I think that is the case - it grew out of the reforms that Lever (Port
Sunlight) and Cadbury (Bournville) instituted to improve the lot of the
workers (and thus get higher production...)

(The other) Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 23:14:22 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Guns part II

 "Legate" <legate@futureone.com> wrote:

>Not really Loren.  Look at Leading Edge Games.  The most Realistic Set of
>Combat Rules around & most people I talk to like it more that any other
>system.

Ermm.. I've been gaming  for the last fifteen years and haven't heard of
them, and neither had any of my players...

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 23:40:11 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re Minor Aliens

 "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU> wrote:

>Traveller Chronicle has Vegan generation for TNE.
>
>Peter Newman (on this list) has a minor human race he created for one of my
>games, who are esentially only slightly different from normal.
>
>A few minor races were presented in JTAS, including Dolphins (T. Galactis),
>and a minor race subject to the K'Kree both come to mind, both for CT.
>
>A few more (The H'lassani, for one) appeared for MT in Challenge Magazine.

And IG's Alien's Archive is surprisingly good...

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 23:08:58 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: [LONG] BITS/CORE Products first impressions >

"David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net> wrote:

>At 07:38 pm 7/9/98 -0400, you wrote:

>>>contacting Leisure Games in London UK who will mail order.
>
>	<snipped rave review>

>	Got the URL handy for Leisure games ...?

Http://www.btinternet.com/~leisuregames

IIRC of course,

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 18:32:49 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net>
Subject: Re: Guns part II

At 05:14 PM 7/12/98 , Dom Mooney wrote:
> "Legate" <legate@futureone.com> wrote:
>
>>Not really Loren.  Look at Leading Edge Games.  The most Realistic Set of
>>Combat Rules around & most people I talk to like it more that any other
>>system.
>
>Ermm.. I've been gaming  for the last fifteen years and haven't heard of
>them, and neither had any of my players...

Dom,

I have all of the LEG rules from the second edition to the last one before
the went out of business. You might check out rec.frp.marketplace you might
find a few copies. But it is the best realistic gun combat rules.

Sinbad Sam
sinbad@hex.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 18:20:34 +0000
From: edjs@bitslayer.net
Subject: Re: Trepida grav tank (was SpecOps)

> From:          "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
> Date:          Sun, 12 Jul 1998 16:49:06 -0500
> 
> You know, I took a look at the RCVG yesterday to see the stats for this
> tank, and I noticed it had an AV of 258, but in the description it was said
> to have the equivalent of 2.5 meters steel protection. Now, correct me if
> I'm wrong, but according to FF&S1, 1 cm of hard steel is equal to an AV 2.
> This would make the armor protection of the Trepida 1.29 meters, not 2.5,
> wouldn't it (since it would be figured 258/2 = 129 cm)?

Well, yes, if you want to get picky about it. :)  (The dangers of relying on my 
memory instead of reaching out for the book.)
 

- --
Edward Swatschek
edjs@bitslayer.net - edjs@mindlink.net - ICQ 2684960
http://home.mindlink.net/edjs/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 22:44:27 -0500
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: Re: Trepida grav tank (was SpecOps)

I said:
> You know, I took a look at the RCVG yesterday to see the stats for this
> tank, and I noticed it had an AV of 258, but in the description it was
said
> to have the equivalent of 2.5 meters steel protection. Now, correct me if
> I'm wrong, but according to FF&S1, 1 cm of hard steel is equal to an AV 2.
> This would make the armor protection of the Trepida 1.29 meters, not 2.5,
> wouldn't it (since it would be figured 258/2 = 129 cm)?


And Edward Swatschek said:


>>Well, yes, if you want to get picky about it. :)  (The dangers of
>>relying on my memory instead of reaching out for the book.)

Actually, your memory wasn't faulty. You remembered right. It says right
there in the text, "2.5 meters of steel." I was just wondering if this the
typo, or if the stats were wrong.

<gas!> A typo!?! In a GDW product?!? I just 'canna believe it!!! :-)

Ciao,

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #655
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Monday, July 13 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 656



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re Leading Edge
Website update
Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)
Re: Guns part II
Re: Guns part II
Trade and stuff
Re: Trade and stuff 
Re: Imperial Tankers (in canon)
Re: Imperial Navy budget
Re: Reactivating mothballed ships
Re: Azhanti High Lighting
Web Site Updated
Re: Fleets of the Imperium
Re: space 1999 Dates
Re: Possible THUDD fodder
Re: Nuclear Damper Questions
Subject: Re: T'anks for the memories
Making profits half full
Re: Fleets of the Imperium
Letters of Marque
Re: Re Leading Edge

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 20:46:37 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re Leading Edge

Dom did put forward:
> "Legate" <legate@futureone.com> wrote:
>
>>Not really Loren.  Look at Leading Edge Games.  The most Realistic Set of
>>Combat Rules around & most people I talk to like it more that any other
>>system.
>
>Ermm.. I've been gaming  for the last fifteen years and haven't heard of
>them, and neither had any of my players...

Several of their games come immediately to mind for me:
	Aliens RPG
	Phoenix Command
	Rhand: Morningstar Missions
	Living Steel

All of these use the same task and combat systems, with differing ammounts
of depth to the tables. The system is realistic, playable, a little table
heavy (not quite Rolemaster/Spacemaster Level, but on par with MERP).
Combat can be quite deadly. Shock kills, rather than simple impact energy.
Have only run Rhand and Aliens... Both Rhand and Aliens are lite on
background and heavy on system mechanics, altho' what BG there is is VERY
well written, concise, and appropriate.


William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 17:28:55 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Website update

I've now added combat record cards in pdf v3 format for Bruce Macintosh's 
MCS for all the ships on my website, I hope people find these useful. I now 
return you to your regularly scheduled piracy debate.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 01:48:34 -0700
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: TNE|TW2K Combat (was Comparing the Versions)

Sinbad Sam types:
>Well each SWAT team has varying levels of training but all have more than
>3x than *normal* police officers. The major city SWAT and Federal SWAT will
>have the higher levels of training for SWAT. By the way if you want to get
>some *interesting* looks talk to a police officer about the his
>department's SWAT team training info and tyr to get specifics.<G>

   At least 3x I hope.  Most officers only draw their weapons during yearly
quals.
They get their Academy training, and then only draw their weapons once a year.
SWATs get a lot more than range training.


- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for 
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked" 
                 http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 03:16:29 EDT
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re: Guns part II

At 05:14 PM 7/12/98 , Dom Mooney wrote:
> "Legate" <legate@futureone.com> wrote:
>
>>Not really Loren.  Look at Leading Edge Games.  The most Realistic Set of
>>Combat Rules around & most people I talk to like it more that any other
>>system.
>
>Ermm.. I've been gaming  for the last fifteen years and haven't heard of
>them, and neither had any of my players...

 A collection of old gamer vets who've never heard of Living Steel? Or Phoenix
Command/Rhand? The Aliens "RPG"? Oh. My.

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 23:06:07 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Guns part II

> From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
> >Not really Loren.  Look at Leading Edge Games.  The most Realistic Set
of
> >Combat Rules around & most people I talk to like it more that any other
> >system.
> Ermm.. I've been gaming  for the last fifteen years and haven't heard of
> them, and neither had any of my players...
> 
> Dom

Just go here & check it out. 
http://enws425.eas.asu.edu/~biswell/LEG/legmenu.html

Legate, Militant Jewish Terrorist
Cult 'O Gabe's Holy Avenger in charge of Military Afairs
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"The system does not matter, its ROLE-Playing that matters." - Me to
Acid_Blue, Chuckles, & Rob the Lumberjackman.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 18:24:07
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Trade and stuff

>From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
>Subject: Re: Background Color - Freighters & Liners 
>
>Subsidised merchants & liners weren't *designed* to make a killing, they
were designed to make sure that there was at least *SOME* regular trade
done in an area.  The thought behind them is, it's in the local
government's interest to get offworld stuff even if they lose money in the
process.  The 'hook' for PCs running a subbie is that they get to keep half
the money the boat generates without getting stuck with the payments.  All
they have to do is cover the usual operating expenses.
>
>FWIW, I did some dinking around with the CT rules & found out that with a
character with Broker-2 and a half million credit stake can *EASILY* run up
the 20MCr down payment for an M-class liner (100MCr cash price) in about a
year of speculative trading, including the 1000/ton freight fees to take
him where he wants to go (with his cargo) and no less than a Middle
Passage.  Further dinking around, with a 1MCr 'holdback' from the 21MCr+
generated in that year allowed him to make the first *5* years payments and
still have a hefty amount of cash left over, all generated during the 14
months' wait for the boat to be delivered.
>

The Traveller trade rules break easily when faced with operaters with
adequate amounts of working capital (eg enough money to buy a full load of
speculative cargo), and with sensible trading strategies (own the cargo,
rent the ship). They are designed solely for cash-poor ship owners, and
break when faced with anything else.

>Standard subbie contracts require the boat to service their assigned line
70% of the time, leaving about 20 weeks a year to do some *SERIOUS*
adventuring.  And there's no reason why a subbie can't pay off its loan
within 5 to 10 years doing spec trading.  It's a good way to do a Merchant
Prince style campaign:  travel to far off, strange planets, meet exotic and
different cultures, and take them for every dime they have!  <grin>

Part of what I really dislike about the 'vanilla' Traveller trade rules is
they dont encourage this. What they encourage is short-haul routes between
a small set of planets.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 05:01:32 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Trade and stuff 

> >FWIW, I did some dinking around with the CT rules & found out that with a
> character with Broker-2 and a half million credit stake can *EASILY* run up
> the 20MCr down payment for an M-class liner (100MCr cash price) in about a
> year of speculative trading, including the 1000/ton freight fees to take
> him where he wants to go (with his cargo) and no less than a Middle
> Passage.  Further dinking around, with a 1MCr 'holdback' from the 21MCr+
> generated in that year allowed him to make the first *5* years payments and
> still have a hefty amount of cash left over, all generated during the 14
> months' wait for the boat to be delivered.
> >
> 
> The Traveller trade rules break easily when faced with operaters with
> adequate amounts of working capital (eg enough money to buy a full load of
> speculative cargo), and with sensible trading strategies (own the cargo,
> rent the ship). They are designed solely for cash-poor ship owners, and
> break when faced with anything else.

If you've got the multi megacredits for the down on a ship, you're not gonna 
be cash-poor.  And Broker skill didn't happen until Book 7 anyways.  High 
admin would have given you the same effect, but we were talking of characters 
putting in 5 terms & coming out with *6* skill levels total.  The original 
Book 1 rules didn't come apart as badly under those conditions.

> >Standard subbie contracts require the boat to service their assigned line
> 70% of the time, leaving about 20 weeks a year to do some *SERIOUS*
> adventuring.  And there's no reason why a subbie can't pay off its loan
> within 5 to 10 years doing spec trading.  It's a good way to do a Merchant
> Prince style campaign:  travel to far off, strange planets, meet exotic and
> different cultures, and take them for every dime they have!  <grin>
> 
> Part of what I really dislike about the 'vanilla' Traveller trade rules is
> they dont encourage this. What they encourage is short-haul routes between
> a small set of planets.

Nobody's disputing they don't need some overhauling, even under CT after Book 7 came out.  And besides, it's easy enough for a ref to throw 'em a 'gimme' spec cargo that they *KNOW* will sell good at that Sword World 3 parsecs away as a 'pull' to get them where he really wants 'em.  Check the old Traveller Adventure for examples of this.

Keven
- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 14:16:01 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Imperial Tankers (in canon)

William F. Hostman writes:

>In MT Fighting Ships, the tankers come in two sizes: 500KTd and 200KTd.

Thanks for the information; due to the extremely bad reviews it got, I never
bought _FSOTSI_.
 
>The 500KTd carries 300KTd of fuel, with 1G and J3.

My 1MTd design is actually a jump-6 500KTd design capable of carrying 300KTd
internally and an extra 500KTd externally (with a corresponding decrease in
jump capacity).
 
>The 200 KTd carries 120 (Book has typo) FOR DISTRIBUTION; roughly 3x own
>fuel.

The 400KTd design I spoke of would actually be 200 KTd designs corresponding
to the big design.
 
>Both use 1000Td fuel shuttles.

How many? How long does it take a tanker to refuel?
 
>The flexibility of smaller tankers, especially if you assume normal
>distributions is in TG's of 2 or 3 cruisers plus escorts, is much better in
>operational deployment for the frontiers.

Well, I said I thought 5 400 KTd tankers would be better than two 1MTds, but
the final size and cost would be very close anyway.

What's a TG?
 
>I agree with Hans' basic premises that fighters are quite valuable (even if
>HG didn't make them particularly valuable) based upon using vector based
>systems (BL, Mayday, Bk3, my modifications to use MT Vehicular Combat rules).

That wasn't me. I don't have much of an opinion. I remember that the fighter
designs I made for the TCS game I was in were 60-70 T designs with factor 9
computers, but I never had them tested against more conventional designs.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 14:32:45 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Imperial Navy budget

Douglas E. Berry writes:

>>1% of that would be the Imperial cut of the military budget: TCr 1,350. Of
>>this half would go to the colonial fleets. The remainder, TCr675,
>>corresponds to a regular fleet worth TCr6,750.
>>
>>320 fleets of the size I propose in another message will cost @ 7.3 TCr =
>>TCr2,336, or about 34% of that.
> 
>Include the cost of personel, ammo, parts and repairs, bases, The Marine
>Force, etc., this seems about right.

Unfortunately everything you mention except the Marines is already included
in the 34%. Remember, the actual maintenance of the ships only account for
10% of the figure, leaving 90% for other expenses. Also included is
replacement of worn-out ships (but not battle repair and replacements). 
Research, espionage, and the Imperial Army is not covered either. Neither
are the Scouts, but it is unclear whether or not they need to be paid for
or whether they pay for themselves through the Xboat system.

Anyway, I can't see any of these accounting for 66% of TCr6,750. And let's
not forget that the Imperium have other sources of revenue than the purely
military tax.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 14:40:17 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Reactivating mothballed ships

Gary (TravelrTNE@aol.com) wrote:

>>There's only 6 left in the entire Domain of Deneb (all decommissioned)

I replied: 
>I can't quote you chapter and verse because I don't have the books with me,
>but I'm almost sure you're wrong about that.

I was wrong. The ships I remembered as active in the Spinward Marches was
active in 1107, but they all got decommisioned in 1114 and are the very
ones being reactivated at Trin (5 of them, not 6). There are two more in
Darrian hands which may or may not be in commision and some in the Scout
service that may or may not be stationed in the Domain. Also, the
reactivations are only scheduled for one more year, not two as I claimed.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 14:46:39 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Azhanti High Lighting

Bruce Alan Macintosh writes:

>>The only problem with this pile of Torpedo-Boat style escorts is that
>>it's hard to make them resistant to a swarm of ship-killer fightercraft.

>In classic High Guard, any fast ship carrying a Mod/9 was essentially
>immune to light fighters.

Not the light fighters of the Serendip Belt (parralel universe #34478).
All their fighters carried Mod/9 computers. Mind you, you couldn't
really call them _light_ fighters; they massed about 70 T. But they
were the lightesr ones I had.
 

      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:23:59 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Web Site Updated

I've fixed a few links on my website. Hopefully everything now works.

www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/9135/

I've split the site between Traveller and Space: 1889. Most of the
material is S1889 at the moment (mainly deckplans).

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:39:57 -0500
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Fleets of the Imperium

Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:

> 4) If the navy is getting the snot kicked out of them, presumably they
>    can find a use even for such poor ships as Azhantis. And it only takes
>    1/10th the time to reactivate them that it takes to build new ones.
>
> 5) So if the Azhantis wasn't reactivated, then it wasn't because the navy
>    couldn't use them, but because the shipyards had more important things
>    to do.

Perhaps the cruisers were in poor shape.  They are 120 years old or so, and
were originally tech-14 ships.  On the other hand, the conversion to CF and
tech-15 was done more recently (about 40 years back).  

We also know that they'd been in service during the Fifth Frontier War.  It
could be that some of them had suffered damage left unrepaired at the close
of hostilities.  Perhaps they were prepped for storage rather than to go 
back into service immediately.  That could knock them down the queue.  That
was why some of the Azhantis weren't converted from fleet intruder to 
frontier cruiser, after all.

Then again, other sources suggest that Deneb was looking at reactivating 
300 year old tech-13 battleships (the _Voroshilev_) in 1120.  Of course,
that adventure also claimed that no-one knew those ships were installed
recently with experimental tech-17 disintegrator spinal mounts, either.

  -- Steve Bonneville

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 17:19:30 +0100
From: trisen@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: Re: space 1999 Dates

I just checked the video of the pilot  episode  "Breakaway".  The
story _starts_ on 9th September with a member  of  the  radiation
monitoring team going mad over at Nuclear Waste Disposal  Area  2
(smaller than Area  1),  and  Walter  Koenig  being  informed  by
Simmons while enroute to the moon that he is now base  commander.
_But_ the detonation of Area 1 (which  blasts  the  moon  out  of
orbit) happens days later.  The openning  credits  always  report
this as occuring on 13th September.  Thus the pilot episode spans
4 days events.

Someone worked out once that the force needed to blast  the  moon
out of orbit and into interstellar space would actually pulverise
it into rubble!

However isn't this a little OT?

Regards PLST
<the tagless one>

___________________________________
To sign up for a free email account, visit http://www.postmaster.co.uk.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 17:30:20 +0000
From: "Martin F C Pickett" <ceemfcp@cee.hw.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Possible THUDD fodder

From: Chris Gregory <clgregry@gte.net>
> >Please excuse me if this topic has been beaten to death on the list,
> >but... Has anyone
> >considered the design of Cleon's gunships, used to suppress piracy? M0
> >says it's 4 gunships
> >attached to a Patrol Cruiser, but the PCruiser listed in Starships!
> >doesn't fit the description..
> >If no one's done it, why not try to design the Cruiser/Gunship combo?

From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
> Personally, I would use the excellent fighters from Svennson Small Craft -
> about 4 gees, armed with a laser in the 250 MJ range and capable of
> mounting a couple of missiles.
> 
> Designs available on request.
> 
> One of these days I have to pull my finger out and build the 600t, jump-3
> disk-shaped Escort Carrier for them.
 
I remember the Svenson fighter from a while ago - I thought it was a great piece 
of design, and packed a lot of punch.

I have a patrol cruiser/light fighter combo that I designed with some offshoots of 
the THUDDD fighter contest (FF&S2 spreadsheet):

The Waft & Fanfare classes are based around a stealth/standoff concept - if 
you can't be seen, you can't be hit, and if you can hit them from long range 
you're harder to see.  Admittedly this is quite a tricky ideal to live up to when 
using Bruce's DSR, but the lower your signature is the better.  As a result, both 
the fighter and the carrier have lots of drive masking and stealth-designed hulls, 
along with the longest range laser that I could fit into them.

One interesting side-effect is that they can't use fusion+, because with drive 
masking the radiator area required goes through the roof.  This should please 
those members of the list who like to refer to "The Abomination Known As 
Fusion Plus" - you know who you are!

Waft Class. A single seat light fighter, armed with a single medium range laser 
weapon. Excellent stealth capabilities and acceleration make this an ideal anti-
piracy or light commerce escort craft. 

Displacement: 15 std
Price: 80 MCr

Designed as a small commercial escort carrier for the Waft class fighter (see 
above), the Fanfare class Commerce Escort is a cheap and versatile way of 
protecting shipping from piracy or small-scale commerce raiding. 

The Fanfare carries four 15 std light fighters (designed for the Waft class above, 
but can be built to accomodate any similar fighter - contact your dealer for 
details and prices) and a range of supporting weaponry designed to give any 
pirate a large scale headache. 

Displacement: 446 std
Price: 770 MCr

If anyone would like the stats, I can send them to you off the list - it's probably 
a bit much to post them both here.


Martin Pickett 
ceemfcp@cee.hw.ac.uk
Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are alive, well and living on Sylea 
IMTU 1.0 tc+ tm+ tn- t4+ ru@ ge++(-) 3i+ jt- au+ ls+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:46:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Nuclear Damper Questions

Leonard Erickson writes:
> 
> > 2)  Assuming reactors _can_ be shielded, what about using a damper
> > box to shield nuclear weapons from dampers?
> 
> I'd say one follows from the other. And I wouldn't want to be around a
> fission warhead if you hit oit with a damper set to "accelerate".

Shrug.  100 years of radioactive decay on a plutonium warhead would generate
the equivalent of a micronuke (around a ton of high explosive equivalent), and
make it completely useless; given that a nuclear damper probably reduces the
neutron capture cross-section for a micronuke, induced fission isn't a big
problem.  100 years of radioactive decay on a U-235 warhead is some five orders
of magnitude less energy, which is enough energy to heat the uranium up by
quite a bit (possibly making the warhead nonfunctional) but isn't terribly
dangerous to people nearby (well, lethal radiation doses out to 10 meters or
so).

Incidentally, one question still not answered: what is the radius of effect for
a nuclear damper?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:14:28 -0700
From: "A. O'Mary" <omary@my-dejanews.com>
Subject: Subject: Re: T'anks for the memories

In mail you write:


>
>>What about the Bolo, then?
>

>
> Regarding this and the other recent postings on Bolos, it seems to me
> the main obstacle to creating early to middle Mark-series Bolos is
> not so much the weapons tech as it is the level of AI available in
> Traveller rules. Besides, do you really want a Viru s-driven Bolo to
> deal with?

Actually, Bolos being intelligent already (and likely *more*
intelligent than the average virus strain) would *resist* the
"infection". There's at least one Bolo story where someone tries
subverting their programming. Getting caught at it would be rather
fatal for the virus. :-)

True, but maybe I wasn't clear in the original post. According, at least to the Robots LBB, Imperial robotic/computer brains aren't able to achieve the level of self-awareness present in even the lower Mark-levels of Laumer's Bolos. In fact, I'll have to look to see if any level of self-awarenes is possible at all before, say ~TL20. This being the case, if you have a Bolo then it will be subject to Virus. If you say that that level of AI is possible, the Virus is no longer quite as big a threat, since it would seem likely that computers for starport and large starcraft would be at least as capible.
ALO


- -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/  Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 19:37:54 +0100
From: Phil Kitching <Philk@btinternet.com>
Subject: Making profits half full

When I said that a ship could be designed that made a profit at 50% loading,
it was suggested that this might be impossible.

It is true that it was an approximate remark
(ie I didn't have a design to hand that did)
but I felt sure that it could be done.

It can, but it is harder than I thought, so here is the design.

Notes
At TL15 making a ship that breaks even according to the econ chart on
Andy's excellent spreadsheet is reasonably straight forward, at TL12
it is harder.

If you want to have a liner, then it is easy at TL12 if you are carrying
high passengers or even if you are 50% full but with each passenger on
a mid passage.

Low passages are a complete non starter due to the costs of medical
facilities.

Pure freighters are harder. The problem being that cargo is figured as
seven times as dense as staterooms, so a freighter needs more thrust for
take off and thus more power. For many cargoes this would be too much
so I have allowed a 2G structure so that the extra performance can be used.

This design works only because it uses 1G contra Grav to escape the planet
and then switches to 0.5G thruster plates to move to the 100dia limit
(it can't run both at once).

There are no weapons and the streamlining was only added because it turned
out to be very cheap.

The cost is based on a one off prototype, mass production discounts
make life a lot easier - as I just realised :-(

Economic Design Study #3.6
Statistics				
	Tons:   1000std ( SL Sphere Fast Subsonic )
	Crew:   3/3
	Cargo:  814std (0/20 /Hdl:1x40ton0)
	Volume: 14000m3
	Cost:	 159.01 MCr
	Mass (L/C): 13740t/2245t
	Maintenance Points: 362
	Dimensions: 29.9m diameter
	Tech Level: 12
	Size: 9

Electronics
	Controls: Dynamic, High automation. No bridge.
		1xFltComp (CM:0.35 CP:2.86). 1xComp (CM:0.35 CP:2.86).
	Communications: 1xRadio (1,000AU, 0.2MW). 1xLaser (1,000AU, 0MW).
	Sensors: 1xPEMS (12.5 [1.6mkm], 0MW). 1xAEMS (11 [.16mkm], 0.25MW).
	Signatures: Vis:-0.5,IR:0(-0.5 at 26MW),Act:0.5, Neu:0,Grav:0
Performance	
	1		Jump (100std/pc fuel)
	0.5/2.8	Maneuver (/Thruster:158MW)
	1/5.9		Contra-grav (226MW)
	454kph/800kph	Atmosphere (/Crus:341kph/600kph)
	1		Power (/Fus:255MW,0.5yr )
	101.4		Fuel
	0/3/0/0/0	Accomodations 
	48		Life Sup. (/Ty:St,Ex /'St)
	1		G-Comp 
	0 [20]		Armor, 16 Structure

Features
	3xAirlock
	1xOrdinary Galley (Cap:3)	

Backups
	Communications: 1xRadio (500,000km).

Crew Details
	2xMnvr. 1xEngr.

Economics
Purchase Price	MCr 159.009,723
Down Payment		MCr  31.801,945
Charter Potential	MCr   0.732,600

Economic Potential (MCr)
Expenses			 Full Load	 80% Load	 50% Load
	Ship's Payment	 8.281,756 	 8,281,756 	 8,281,756 
	Maintenance 		 0.159,010 	 0.159,010 	 0.159,010 
	Fuel			 1.267,076 	 1.267,076 	 1,267,076 
	Salaries		 0.211,200 	 0.211,200 	 0.211,200 
	Life Support		 0.150,000 	 0.150,000 	 0.150,000 
	Berthing		 0.005,000 	 0.005,000 	 0.005,000 
	Subtotal		10.074,042 	10,074,042 	10,074,042 

Income				 Full Load	 80% Load	 50% Load
	Freight		20,350,000 	16,275,000 	10,175,000 
	Subtotal		20,350,000 	16,275,000 	10,175,000 

Net Profit/Loss		10,275,958 	 6,200,958 	 0.100,958 


Economic Design Study #3.6 was produced to explore minimal cost design.
As it does not fit within the profile of the Postmark Design Bureau,
there is no intention of offering ships based upon this design for sale.
However the design should be considered to be formally registered, and
licencing arrangements may be possible.

We are still able to take orders for lab ships.

Phil Kitching

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 11:52:34 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Fleets of the Imperium

>>>Move about outside the 100 diameter limit in a semi-random
>>>manner and _never be withing weapon range of wherever you were one and
>>>two weeks ago.
>>Plus, as Bruce pointed out, your BBs way out on the fringes can't get back
>>to defend the world they're there for.
>They can get to it as fast as the attacker can. If they chose.

Not really - the 100-diameter limit is basically comparable to weapons 
range; if the defenders are hovering right at the limit they have at
least a 50% chance of being in weapons range of an emerging attacker.
To have true security they need to be 200-300 diameters out, which leaves
the attackers (particularly if they arrive with their delta-V pointing at
the target world) able to get to the target much more quickly.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 16:04:02 EDT
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: Letters of Marque

Anyone else get their copy? 

Mike McKeown

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:25:57 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Re Leading Edge

> From: William F. Hostman <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
> >>Not really Loren.  Look at Leading Edge Games.  The most Realistic Set
of
> >>Combat Rules around & most people I talk to like it more that any other
> >>system.
> >Ermm.. I've been gaming  for the last fifteen years and haven't heard of
> >them, and neither had any of my players...
> Several of their games come immediately to mind for me:
> 	Aliens RPG
> 	Phoenix Command
> 	Rhand: Morningstar Missions
> 	Living Steel
> 
> All of these use the same task and combat systems, with differing
ammounts
> of depth to the tables. The system is realistic, playable, a little table
> heavy (not quite Rolemaster/Spacemaster Level, but on par with MERP).
> Combat can be quite deadly. Shock kills, rather than simple impact
energy.
> Have only run Rhand and Aliens... Both Rhand and Aliens are lite on
> background and heavy on system mechanics, altho' what BG there is is VERY
> well written, concise, and appropriate.

This is true.  Right now I am working up a champaign using the rules from
LGG, the setting from the Aliens RPG, & some background to Traveller. 
Basicly, the whole idea is that the Terran Confederation finds the Aliens &
there branch of the Marine Corps, called the Colonial Marines fights them. 
As time goes on the players will meet up with the 1I.  I would like some
input on this idea.

Thank you.

> William F. Hostman

Legate, Militant Jewish Terrorist
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"The system does not matter, its ROLE-Playing that matters." - Me to
Acid_Blue, Chuckles, & Rob the Lumberjackman.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #656
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Tuesday, July 14 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 657



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Guns part II
Re: Letters of Marque
Re: Azhanti High Lighting
Re: Making profits half full
Re: Letters of Marque 
Vland in M:0
Re: Re Minor Aliens
Re: Re Minor Aliens
Re: Re Minor Aliens 
FFW inventory
Re Tankers
Leading Edge
Ok so now we know about the imperial fleet, what about other flee ts?
[OT] Re Leading Edge / B5
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #656
[design] TL-11 Bulk Carrier
70 T fighters
Re: Fleets of the Imperium

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:22:16 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Guns part II

> From: GypsyComet@aol.com
> >>Not really Loren.  Look at Leading Edge Games.  The most Realistic Set
of
> >>Combat Rules around & most people I talk to like it more that any other
> >>system.
> >Ermm.. I've been gaming  for the last fifteen years and haven't heard of
> >them, and neither had any of my players...
>  A collection of old gamer vets who've never heard of Living Steel? Or
Phoenix
> Command/Rhand? The Aliens "RPG"? Oh. My.
> 
> GypsyComet

Quite scary is it not.  Help, help.  Runaway, runaway.  There be newbies
here who say they are old gamers.

Next thing you will tell us, is that you have never heard of Judge's
Guild...

Legate, Militant Jewish Terrorist
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"The system does not matter, its ROLE-Playing that matters." - Me to
Acid_Blue, Chuckles, & Rob the Lumberjackman.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 16:49:48 -0400
From: "Ed Leland" <eleland@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Letters of Marque

Got mine on Saturday.  Looks quite good so far.

Ed Leland
eleland@gte.net

- -

>Anyone else get their copy? 
>
>Mike McKeown
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:55:27 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Azhanti High Lighting

>>In classic High Guard, any fast ship carrying a Mod/9 was essentially
>>immune to light fighters.
>Not the light fighters of the Serendip Belt (parralel universe #34478).
>All their fighters carried Mod/9 computers. Mind you, you couldn't
>really call them _light_ fighters; they massed about 70 T. But they
>were the lightesr ones I had.

Well, we were (orignally; see the thread name) talking about the AHL, which
carries the 15-ton 
"Rampart" light fighter, who's only real role in serious High Guard 
combat is getting you a +1 on your initiative roll for having more ships
than your opponent. 

The problem with heavy fighters like yours or the classic Imperial Heavy
Fighter is that those Mod/9 computers are dammned expensive; fighters with
big computers are much less cost-effective than ~1000 ton light battle
riders, who end up with one computer for ten turrets of firepower rather
than ten computers for the same firepower, and are only one point easier to
hit if you make them 999 tons.) 

Fighters have their uses (please don't resurrect that debate!) but to drag
things back to the AHL, my main point was that its dinky little Rampart
fighters are useful only for patrol/system control/raiding, not combat 
against another capital ship.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 18:15:51 -0400
From: Joseph Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Making profits half full

Phil Kitching wrote:

> When I said that a ship could be designed that made a profit at 50% loading,
> it was suggested that this might be impossible.
> [CLIPPAGE]
>         Cargo:  814std (0/20 /Hdl:1x40ton0)

How are you going to get 407 std (50%) of freight per trip?
Obviously, you ignore the vanilla availability rules and assume this is a corp
vessel.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 19:12:21 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Letters of Marque 

> >Anyone else get their copy? 
> >
> Got mine on Saturday.  Looks quite good so far.

Mine got here this morning.  *LOVE* the insert.

Best parts of the book I've seen so far (course, I'm biased as HELL here) are 
the detailing of some more of Reavers' Deep (one of my all time *FAVE* places 
to hang out) and the cut-down star system quick-detail hints.  I could have 
done without the hand drawn stuff, given that the insert came with it.

All in all, I *LIKE* it, typoes notwithstanding.

Keven
- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 09:34:44 +1000
From: rolfe@skie.its.unimelb.edu.au
Subject: Vland in M:0

Hi there,


I was looking through the First Survey data last night and noticed that
Vland has a pop digit of 3.  How is it possible that a world that brought
about the largest interstellar empire known should have less than 10000
people??

This isnt even enough to purchace a single colony ship!
Also, Dlan/Iliesh has a TL of D.  Is this at all realistic?

{ I Just hope i'm reading the uwp wrong!}



A While back, someone published a URL to some corrected M:0 data, anyone
remember the address?

Cheers,
Rolfe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 18:51:58 -0400
From: Steven McKenzie <goldgrif@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Re Minor Aliens

I have some of the old
JTAS!!!!!!


I was wondering if there has been anyone that has taken the time to pull it
all together!!!!


Steven McKenzie
Lord Leo Aquila
Luceo Non Uro

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 18:53:36 -0400
From: Steven McKenzie <goldgrif@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Re Minor Aliens

do tell!!!!!!]

Where is this Archive??


>And IG's Alien's Archive is surprisingly good...
>
>Dom
>
>------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
>"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
>that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
>You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
>'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
>MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 
>
>
>
Steven McKenzie
Lord Leo Aquila
Luceo Non Uro

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 20:25:21 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Re Minor Aliens 

> >And IG's Alien's Archive is surprisingly good...
>
> do tell!!!!!!]
> 
> Where is this Archive??

Unfortunately, it's a book published by IG, & not an online archive.  I'd love 
to see an online archive of this stuff, but I doubt it'll happen due to 
copyright restrictions.

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 23:11:25 -0400
From: "Scott Spieker" <scspieker@ncweb.com>
Subject: FFW inventory

Hi,
	I was wondering for some of you who own Fifth Frontier War (Traveller Game
4), exactly what comes with the boxed game?  I have recently come into
possession of one, and I'm not certain that it is missing anything.

Thanks for the assistance in advance,
Scott Spieker

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 22:47:19 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re Tankers

>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
>
>William F. Hostman writes:
>
>>In MT Fighting Ships, the tankers come in two sizes: 500KTd and 200KTd.
>
>Thanks for the information; due to the extremely bad reviews it got, I never
>bought _FSOTSI_.
>

It was specific to large scale military campaigning, and has many typos...
I simply am a collector.

[snip]
>
>>Both use 1000Td fuel shuttles.
>
>How many? How long does it take a tanker to refuel?
>

5 each.

>>The flexibility of smaller tankers, especially if you assume normal
>>distributions is in TG's of 2 or 3 cruisers plus escorts, is much better in
>>operational deployment for the frontiers.
>
>Well, I said I thought 5 400 KTd tankers would be better than two 1MTds, but
>the final size and cost would be very close anyway.
>
>What's a TG?

Task Group. A naval organization formed from Parts of a fleet for some
sub-mission of said fleet; usually of a temporary nature. Also sometimes
known as a Flotilla, which is a misnomer. (A flotilla is actually a synonym
for a squadron, IIRC.) In traveller terms, since Ron's (a contraction of
squadRON) are ships of a single mission type, a TG is a multi-role or
special assemblage. TaskForces (TF's) can be construed to be either larger
or smaller versions of TG's, dependant upon useage. IMTU, they are
interchangeable, and set by the forming commander (who is almost never the
TG/TF commander).

An example From MY TU: TG Aramis (created out of the 214th Fleet) consists
of 1 Battleship,  2 Cruisers (from a CruRon) with their destroyers (a total
of 5 from the DesRon attached to the CruRon and the BatRon), 4-8 Type S
Scout/Couriers (attached from the 214th Fleet Scout Pool) plus any extra
needed from the scoutbase, one tanker of the 500 KTd kind, one of the
200KTd (from different tankRons), one carrier (from a CruRon) with it's 2
escorts and fighter wings, One assault craft carrying an attached MarDet
(Marine Assault Detachment) of combined arms forces, including at least one
regiment each of Drop Troops, Bounce Troops, Armor, Arty, and WetMarine
(Amphibious troops) plus it's escorts. Purpose of the TG: THe standing
fleet garrison of the Navy base. A matching reserve fleet draw provides TG
Aramis Reserve, with similar (but older) composition. One or the other is
on near-world parol, while the other is either in port (ie, orbiting with
skeleton crewing) or deployed for training maneuvers. When enough ships are
in port, TG-Aramis and TGR-Aramis turn over near planet defense to other
ships in system and go to another world in system and simulate combat
conditions.

Also in the system will be the System fleet, which is (IMTU) primarily a
few destroyers and a few PatRons (Patrol Squadrons). PatRons are the basic
naval unit with which my PC's deal... usually in one to three ship
"Flights" out of the much larger PatRons.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 07:51:47 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Leading Edge

I remember Living Steel... We had some great games, but I tired of players
sitting with a calculator saying 'no point in shooting... only a 3% hit
chance' while I was carrying half-dead buddies out of the firing line while
yelling 'suppressive fire, for God's sake!' into my comm unit. This was
partly a product of the refereee we had (I don't own the game so I can't
comment on the actual mechanics except as a player) but I'm sure that this
was not the intended result of the system. However, it happened. 

The characters we were given were so good that it was an event to be under
100% hit chance. I think maybe they got a bit spoiled by that. Whatever,
that's my memory of the 'most realistic' system - which goes to show that
with the right players you can make a hash of anything. I hope you lot had
better experiences!

I got a more realistic result with my very simple homegrown rules - people
started using cover and maneuver, firing to suppress or at guessed
locations on the (small) chance of a lucky hit; people wo just stood up and
fired, generally died. 

Players... hah. thay can spoil anything! I never let 'em near the game,
myself!
MJD

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 08:57:24 +0200
From: Christian Gotschi <ChristianG@vircom.co.za>
Subject: Ok so now we know about the imperial fleet, what about other flee ts?

I would like to know what the total number of ships flying about in
space are.

If anyone you like to take this up here are a few questions:
What is the total number of ships and the breakdown in terms of size (or
tons)?
A breakdown of these ships in terms of affiliations 
	(Navy/Scout/megacorp/minorcorp/private/noble/planetary
militia/...)

As an example just take a subsector from the rim and one from the core.


Christian Götschi
mailto:christiang@vircom.co.za
Developer at Vircom
http://www.vircom.co.za

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 23:57:46 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: [OT] Re Leading Edge / B5

"William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU> wrote:

>Dom did put forward:
>> "Legate" <legate@futureone.com> wrote:
>>>Not really Loren.  Look at Leading Edge Games.  The most Realistic Set of
>>>Combat Rules around & most people I talk to like it more that any other
>>>system.
>>
>>Ermm.. I've been gaming  for the last fifteen years and haven't heard of
>>them, and neither had any of my players...
>
>Several of their games come immediately to mind for me:
>	Aliens RPG
>	Phoenix Command
>	Rhand: Morningstar Missions
>	Living Steel

Now I recognise them. Played Aliens a long time ago, and wasn't too
impressed. But take that thought with the knowledge that there is probably
10 years of mist between the last time I looked at it. Then again, I'm more
in the rules-lite school myself.

Dom

PS Legate mentioned running in the Aliens background - check out the
Colonial Marines Technical manual - quite a good source book.

PPS If you plan to play B5, you could do a lot worse than using T4.1 for
the rules (dropping PPG availabilty/substituting lasers) and getting hold
of TBP and the Earthforce sourcebook, combined with  the B5 security manual
for background.

PPPS (OT) Anyone out there tried the B5 CGS board game?

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 20:29:58
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #656

>Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 05:01:32 -0400
>From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
>Subject: Re: Trade and stuff 
>
>If you've got the multi megacredits for the down on a ship, you're not gonna 
>be cash-poor.  And Broker skill didn't happen until Book 7 anyways.  High 
>admin would have given you the same effect, but we were talking of
characters 
>putting in 5 terms & coming out with *6* skill levels total.  The original 
>Book 1 rules didn't come apart as badly under those conditions.

This isnt neccessarily true, if you cant borrow against your equity in the
ship. The 'classic' Traveller Free Trader is always scraping for the next
mortgage payment, which means you dont have a cold megacredit or three to
invest in a full cargo hold of accumulators or 7.62mm bullets or whatever.

>
>Nobody's disputing they don't need some overhauling, even under CT after
Book 7 came out.  And besides, it's easy enough for a ref to throw 'em a
'gimme' spec cargo that they *KNOW* will sell good at that Sword World 3
parsecs away as a 'pull' to get them where he really wants 'em.  Check the
old Traveller Adventure for examples of this.
>

3 parsecs aint long haul trade in my book. For me, long haul is from the
Sword Worlds to Deneb.

>From: "Martin F C Pickett" <ceemfcp@cee.hw.ac.uk>
>Subject: Re: Possible THUDD fodder
>
> 
>I remember the Svenson fighter from a while ago - I thought it was a great
piece 
>of design, and packed a lot of punch.

It is a very nice, tight design. Greg Svensson built it to my specs - if I
remember right, it had to have 2 crew, pull 4 gees and mount a 250 MJ
laser. Later versions added missiles, and a small 'police' version was buily.

>
>I have a patrol cruiser/light fighter combo that I designed with some
offshoots of 
>the THUDDD fighter contest (FF&S2 spreadsheet):
>
>The Waft & Fanfare classes are based around a stealth/standoff concept - if 
>you can't be seen, you can't be hit, and if you can hit them from long range 
>you're harder to see.  Admittedly this is quite a tricky ideal to live up
to when 
>using Bruce's DSR, but the lower your signature is the better.  As a
result, both 
>the fighter and the carrier have lots of drive masking and
stealth-designed hulls, 
>along with the longest range laser that I could fit into them.

Part of the problem with this philosophy is all that masking blows the cost
out of all proportion to firepower.

>
>One interesting side-effect is that they can't use fusion+, because with
drive 
>masking the radiator area required goes through the roof.  This should
please 
>those members of the list who like to refer to "The Abomination Known As 
>Fusion Plus" - you know who you are!

The minimum size of fusion plants restricted fighters to TL12 anyway ...
assuming they are militarily useful, which they arent (they are great
auxiliaries, and for beating up on ethically challenged civilians, but
militarily they are useless. A fighter just cant mount big enough weapons
to hurt ships of the line).

>
>Waft Class. A single seat light fighter, armed with a single medium range
laser 
>weapon. Excellent stealth capabilities and acceleration make this an ideal
anti-
>piracy or light commerce escort craft. 
>
>Displacement: 15 std
>Price: 80 MCr
>
>Designed as a small commercial escort carrier for the Waft class fighter
(see 
>above), the Fanfare class Commerce Escort is a cheap and versatile way of 
>protecting shipping from piracy or small-scale commerce raiding. 

*bitch mode on* if it carries Waft class, it aint a cheap solution *bitch
mode off*

>
>The Fanfare carries four 15 std light fighters (designed for the Waft
class above, 
>but can be built to accomodate any similar fighter - contact your dealer for 
>details and prices) and a range of supporting weaponry designed to give any 
>pirate a large scale headache. 
>
>Displacement: 446 std
>Price: 770 MCr
>
>If anyone would like the stats, I can send them to you off the list - it's
probably 
>a bit much to post them both here.

*curious* whats it got in it to justify 770 MCr ... 4 15dton fighters could
be put on external grapples, with one internal bay for one to be worked on.

>From: Phil Kitching <Philk@btinternet.com>
>Subject: Making profits half full
>
>Notes
>At TL15 making a ship that breaks even according to the econ chart on
>Andy's excellent spreadsheet is reasonably straight forward, at TL12
>it is harder.

Power plant cost efficiency at TL15 is wayyyyy higher than at TL12 - they
are about 20% of the size, and cheaper to boot. Personally, I'd add a
*little* more power - another 20 MW should ensure you can keep both the
jump bubble and the life support running.

The major difference at TL12 is the power plant, and it will take up a fair
bit more space and cost a fair bit more.

>
>If you want to have a liner, then it is easy at TL12 if you are carrying
>high passengers or even if you are 50% full but with each passenger on
>a mid passage.
>
>Low passages are a complete non starter due to the costs of medical
>facilities.

Yeah. The low berths takes up all this expensive hull space that could be
used to fit more bunks for the two-to-a-bed fourth-class passengers.

>
>Pure freighters are harder. The problem being that cargo is figured as
>seven times as dense as staterooms, so a freighter needs more thrust for
>take off and thus more power. For many cargoes this would be too much
>so I have allowed a 2G structure so that the extra performance can be used.
>
>This design works only because it uses 1G contra Grav to escape the planet
>and then switches to 0.5G thruster plates to move to the 100dia limit
>(it can't run both at once).
>
>There are no weapons and the streamlining was only added because it turned
>out to be very cheap.

Why the AEMS ?

Finally, the thing that kills TL15 freighters is TL12 freighters are
reasonably competitive with them, while TL15 military ships absolutely crap
on TL12 military ships. Therefore TL12 worlds will build freighters, and
export them to TL15 worlds, in exchange for much smaller numbers of TL15
warships.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 19:37:16 +0800
From: "Michael Bailey" <mickb@opera.iinet.net.au>
Subject: [design] TL-11 Bulk Carrier

James Clement class Bulk Carrier, Mod 4 (FF&S v2)
Designed by Terran Trans/Stellar Shipbuilding CLLC

Statistics
  Tons: 3000std ( USL Med Cylinder )  Crew: 15/15 Cargo: 1502std
(0/10/Hdl:1x20ton0)
  Volume: 42000m3  Passengers High/Med: 0/0 Cost: 333.15 MCr
  Mass (L/C): 34113t/12289t  Passengers Low: 0 Maintenance Points: 516
  Dimensions: 60m x 29.8m x 29.8m  Troops/Science: 0/0 Tech Level: 11
  Size: 9  Frozen Watch: 0

Electronics
  Controls: Dynamic, High automation. 3xComp (CM:0.6 CP:1.67). Bridge.
  Communications: 1xRadio (500,000km, 0.17MW). 1xLaser (500,000km, 0MW).
  Sensors: 1xFld PEMS (12.5 [1.6mkm] Fld, 0MW). 1xAEMS (5, 0.01MW).
  Survey/Science:
  ECM:
  Signatures: Vis:0.5, IR:0 (0 at 548MW, -0.5 at 55MW), Act:0.5, Neu:0,
Grav:-2

Weaponry


  Nil

Performance
  2 Jump (300std/pc fuel)
  0.6/1.7 Maneuver (/HEPlaR:1050MW,6.6 G-hours)
  0/0 Contra-grav
  n/a Atmosphere
  0 Power (/Fus:550MW,1yr )
  0 Battery
  805.9 Fuel (/Purif:72,7MW)
  0/12/1/0/0 Accomodations
  80 Life Sup. (/Ty:St,Nm /'St)
  0 G-Comp
  0 ESA
  0 Sandcasters
  0 Damper Turrets
  0 Damper Screen
  5xEmpty Turret (3std ea.)  0 Meson Screen
                             0 Force Field
                             0 Gravtics
                             0 [12] Armor, 18 Structure

Features

  10xAirlock

  1xShip's locker (1.5std ea.)

  1xOrdinary Galley (Cap:15)


Small Craft

  2xMinHgr (100std, 0 hatches)




Backups
  Drives:
  Screens:
  Communications: 1xRadio (50,000km). 1xLaser (50,000km).
  Sensors:
  Survey/Science:
  ECM:
  Power & Fuel: Purification Plant (144hr).

Crew Details
  2xMnvr. 9xEngr. 2xMain. 2xCmnd.


Note: this ship uses the unofficial fuel in waste space rule.

The James Clement Class bulk carrier is a very old design, dating back to
the early years of the Terran Confederation.  It's predecessor, the 'Ben
Allen' Class, actually predates the Terran Confederation (it was built in
small numbers by the Commonwealth of Australasia from 2132 AD).

As the economy of the Terran Confederation became increasingly reliant on
interstellar trade, the 'James Clement' was designed as a low-cost workhorse
transport that could be quickly built in large numbers.  Using
'off-the-shelf' components and a compartmented, modular design, the
'..Clement' could be assembled in separate sections, prior to final orbital
assembly.

The primitive nature of the '..Clement' is highlighted by it's lack of
gravitic technology.  At the time of the classes' conception, gravitic
technology had been newly acquired from captured Vilani vessels, and was
only availablwe in the newest military vessels.  Artificial gravity is
instead supplied in the bridge, engineering and accomodation spaces by using
an interior 'spin hull'.

Despite it's age, the class is still found within the Solomani Rim sector
and adjoining space in the early years of the Third Imperium.  It still
produced on a number of worlds (primarily within the Easter Concord and
Dingir League), as a low cost private bulk cargo carrier.

The Vegan Polity produces a variant of this freighter, known as the
'Sastyuir Hsaar'.  The primary modification is the removal of the spin hull
mecahnism, and it's replacement with gravitic compensators.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 13:56:20 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: 70 T fighters

I wrote:
>I remember that the fighter designs I made for the TCS game I was in were
>60-70 T designs with factor 9 computers, 

And also:
>>In classic High Guard, any fast ship carrying a Mod/9 was essentially
>>immune to light fighters.
> 
>Not the light fighters of the Serendip Belt (parralel universe #34478).
>All their fighters carried Mod/9 computers.

Slight error there. I was running the Serendip Belt in a TCS campaign and
the Belt had a TL of 12, so my fighters couldn't have a bigger computer
than Mod/6. Nevertheless, I still think the basic idea of stuffing the
best possible computer into a fighter, even if they become far more
expensive that way. Better 1 fighter that can hit than 10 that can't.
But as I said, that's pure theory; I never had them tested in battle.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 14:05:15 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Fleets of the Imperium

Bruce Alan Macintosh writes:

>...the 100-diameter limit is basically comparable to weapons range;

Really? I thought weapon ranges were shorter. I stand corrected.

>if the defenders are hovering right at the limit they have at least a 50%
>chance of being in weapons range of an emerging attacker.

So it is still a valid strategy for pickets, since 50% is better odds than
100%. Also, the basic problem of the attacker remains: He risks having
some of his ships arrive ahead of the others and 1) be outgunned, 2)
warn the defenders and give them time to jump away; and he risks jumping
into the teeth of a visiting defense fleet. Whether those risks are worth
running depends on circumstances.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #657
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Tuesday, July 14 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 658



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Reactivating mothballed ships
A TL 9 fighter?
Re: Zhodani Information
Re: 70 T fighters
Re: Re Leading Edge
Old Gaming Systems
Fighters & Carriers
Re: Fighters & Carriers
Re: Vland in M:0
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Letter of Marque
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Re: [OT] Re Leading Edge / B5
Re: 5th FW inventory
Making profits half full
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Any Letter of Marque left?
Re: Fighters & Carriers
Re: [design] TL-11 Bulk Carrier
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Re: Letter of Marque
Re: Guns part II

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 14:16:09 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Reactivating mothballed ships

Steven Bonneville writes:

>Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
> 
>>4) If the navy is getting the snot kicked out of them, presumably they
>>   can find a use even for such poor ships as Azhantis. And it only takes
>>   1/10th the time to reactivate them that it takes to build new ones.
>>
>>5) So if the Azhantis wasn't reactivated, then it wasn't because the navy
>>   couldn't use them, but because the shipyards had more important things
>>   to do.
> 
>Perhaps the cruisers were in poor shape.  They are 120 years old or so, and
>were originally tech-14 ships.  On the other hand, the conversion to CF and
>tech-15 was done more recently (about 40 years back).  

They can't be in all that bad a shape or they would have been scrapped
rather than mothballed. After all, mothballed ships require maintenance
too, so they would have to have some potential value to the Imperium.
 
>We also know that they'd been in service during the Fifth Frontier War.  It
>could be that some of them had suffered damage left unrepaired at the close
>of hostilities. Perhaps they were prepped for storage rather than to go 
>back into service immediately. That could knock them down the queue.

I have no problem postulating that the Azhantis were put at the very end
of the reactivation queue. What I doubt is that they would be so poor
ships that they would even be put behind new construction (new construction
taking ten times as long as reactivation).

>Then again, other sources suggest that Deneb was looking at reactivating 
>300 year old tech-13 battleships (the _Voroshilev_) in 1120.

An 200,000 T battleship may be worth more than a 60,000 T cruiser, even one
a TL higher (especially since the cruiser has a computer TWO TLs lower) and
it would only take a couple of weeks more to reactivate.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 00:36:57 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: A TL 9 fighter?

Date sent:      	Tue, 14 Jul 1998 20:29:58
From:           	Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>

> The minimum size of fusion plants restricted fighters to TL12 anyway ...
> assuming they are militarily useful, which they arent (they are great
> auxiliaries, and for beating up on ethically challenged civilians, but
> militarily they are useless. A fighter just cant mount big enough weapons
> to hurt ships of the line).

That sounds like a challenge to me :*> And since I was working on this for my 
Ships of the Interstellar Wars site anyway. Mitsumi Heavy Engineering takes 
great pleasure in unveiling the Reppu Fighter (I make no claims as to its actual 
combat effectiveness :*>).

Reppu, Reppu class Fighter (FF&S v2)
Designed by Andrew Moffatt-Vallance

Statistics
 Tons: 75 Td (AF Wedge Hypersonic)
 Crew: 1/2
 Cargo: 0 Td
 Volume: 1050m3
 Passengers High/Med: 0/0
 Cost: 223.213 MCr
 Mass (L/C): 780t/775t
 Passengers Low: 0
 Maintenance Points: 30
 Dimensions: 31.8m x 21.8m x 9.1m
 Troops/Science: 0/0
 Tech Level: 9 (9/10)
 Size: 7
 Frozen Watch: 0

Electronics
 Controls: Computer, High automation. 3 x Comp (CM: 0.6 CP: 1.67).
           Terrain following sensors (TF: 390, NOE: 130). No bridge.
 Communications: 1 x Dir Radio (1,000AU, 0.2MW). 2 x Laser (1,000AU, 
0MW).
 Sensors: 1 x Sci Pas. Scanner (13 [5mkm] Sci, 0.02MW).
          1 x Sci Pas. Tracker (13 [5mkm] Sci, 0.01MW).
          1 x Sci AEMS (11 [0.16mkm] Sci, 1MW).
          2 x Sci LIDAR (14.5 [500kkm] Sci, 2MW).
 Survey/Science:
 ECM:
 Signatures: Vis:-1, IR:-1 (-1.5 at 1MW), Act:-0.5, Neu:-1, Grav:-2

Weaponry
 1 x Missile Turret Can 3/3 (Mag: 0 MFD: 500,000km)
       w/3 Cmd DL 1d6/3 [113] 6G/10 500,000km

Performance
 0 Jump
 3/3 Maneuver (Fusion: 0MW, 4.7 G-hours)
 0/0 Contra-grav
 3285kph/3304kph Atmosphere (Cruise: 2464kph/2478kph)
 0 Power (Fission: 10MW, 0.25yr)
 0 Battery
 0 Fuel (Scoop: 0)
 0/2/0/0/0 Accomodations (2 x Sanitary Fittings)
 26 Person/Weeks Life Support (Type: Extended, Normal Food [Stored])
 0 G-Comp (GTanks: 0 Passenger, 2 Crew)
 0 ESA
 0 Sandcasters
 0 Damper Turrets
 0 Damper Screen
 0 Meson Screen
 0 Force Field
 0 Gravtics
 10 [29] Armor, 17 Structure

Features
 1 x Decontamination Airlock
 1 x Ship's locker (0.04 Td ea.)
 1 x Armory (0.07 Td ea.)
 1 x Gym (2.5 Td ea.)
 1 x Ordinary Galley (Cap: 2)

Small Craft

Backups
 Drives:
 Screens:
 Communications:
 Sensors:
 Survey/Science:
 ECM:
 Power & Fuel:

Crew Details
 1 x Pilot
 1 x Gunner

Perhaps one of the most unusual Terran designs to come out of the
Interstellar Wars period, the Reppu class fighter was designed in 2098 AD by
the JSSDF for service aboard their four Hiryu class Carriers. The Reppus
were intended to capitalise on the newly developed Advanced Nuclear Drives
(reverse engineered from Vilani examples) which enabled much smaller missiles
than had previously been possible. Consequently the designers were able to
produce viable combat vessel using a hull of only 75 Td. The Reppu was the
direct antecedant of the Terran missile boats which became such a vital
part of the Terran navy during the early Interstellar Wars. Despite its
insperation of the very successful missile boats, the Reppu itself was not a
successful combat design. It was rapidly rendered obsolete by the larger
missile boats which followed it. Although the Reppus were deployed aboard
the Hiryus as commerce raiders they proved to be only moderately successful
and with the end of the war they were quickly reduced to the reserve. It was
long believed that all the Hiryus and their Reppus had been broken up shortly
after the 1st War, however in 2547 AD the Hiryu class carrier Taiho was
discovered in the planetiod belt of Dismal with her full compliment of five
Reppus. Apparently she had been laid up as a contingency reserve for the
colonial milita and remained forgotten there. When she was rediscovered, she
languished for another 46 years before she was moved to the Colonial Forces
museum at Prometheus in 2593 AD.


Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 21:21:46 -0500
From: "Pat Connaughton" <pconnaught@fiastl.net>
Subject: Re: Zhodani Information

Just a quick note.
I've been running campaigns in the Spinward Marches, the
Beyond and the sectors around that area for some years now.
I've used the Zho's as an occasionall nemesis on a regular basis.

I've always used the basic materials on a regular basis and I'd 
really appreciate a look at any materials that you may accumulate.

Especially in re to Zho social hierarchy, government agencies, and fleet
disposition.

Thanks in advance
Pat Connaughton
pconnaught@fiastl.net
"It's the only game in town"
ICQ Member # 2535086

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 00:51:01 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: 70 T fighters

From:           	Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Date sent:      	Tue, 14 Jul 1998 13:56:20 +0200 (METDST)

> Slight error there. I was running the Serendip Belt in a TCS campaign and
> the Belt had a TL of 12, so my fighters couldn't have a bigger computer
> than Mod/6. Nevertheless, I still think the basic idea of stuffing the
> best possible computer into a fighter, even if they become far more
> expensive that way. Better 1 fighter that can hit than 10 that can't.
> But as I said, that's pure theory; I never had them tested in battle.

Ahh TCS, what memories that brings back. I think I've lost track of the number 
of times I've seen Esperanza (TL 11) build a class of dreadnoughts mounting a 
factor K PA just to catch the 50 ton fighters built by New Home (TL 13). Not 
that the 50 ton fighters can really hurt anything, it seemed to just be the 
principal of the thing. :*>

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 07:56:37 -0500
From: "Pat Connaughton" <pconnaught@fiastl.net>
Subject: Re: Re Leading Edge

Leading Edge RPG's are very effective and have a lethal
combat system(s). I've played them several times and each
time have enjoyed the combat but that seem to generate
a lot of new PC's on a regular basis.

Please advise of any similar experiences.
Thanks
Pat Connaughton
pconnaught@fiastl.net
"It's the only game in town"
ICQ Member # 2535086

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 09:54:34 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Old Gaming Systems

>Quite scary is it not.  Help, help.  Runaway, runaway.  There be newbies
>here who say they are old gamers.
>
>Next thing you will tell us, is that you have never heard of Judge's
>Guild...

Well, I've been gaming since before Traveller came out, and _I'd_ never
heard of Living Steel.  

As a matter of interest, how many other people (besides me) played
Traveller when it was first released?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 15:20:51 +0000
From: "Martin F C Pickett" <ceemfcp@cee.hw.ac.uk>
Subject: Fighters & Carriers

Ian Whitchurch <ianw@orac.net.au> wrote:
>>From: "Martin F C Pickett" <ceemfcp@cee.hw.ac.uk>                            
>>The Waft & Fanfare classes are based around a stealth/standoff concept - if 
[snip my stuff]                                                                             
>Part of the problem with this philosophy is all that masking blows the cost
>out of all proportion to firepower.                                       

I think that the real factor that pushes the bang per buck ratio down for the Waft 
is the 500kkm MFD that I fitted.  It takes up buckets of space and weighs a 
ton, so lots of extra space has to be used for thrusters and the PP to run them. 
 But IMHO it is an essential piece of gear for the craft - it enables it to use the 
extra range of the laser to good effect.

I have designed an "ordinary" light fighter - 10 tons, 200 MJ laser, 5G, 15 MCr 
to you guv'nor.  I'm not so fond of it though, because while the laser has a 
higher discharge energy, the range is less.  if you have to close to short range 
to fire your weapon, you can bet that any "ethically challenged civilian" (nice 
euphemism BTW) will be firing back with everything they've got.

>The minimum size of fusion plants restricted fighters to TL12 anyway ...     
>assuming they are militarily useful, which they arent (they are great      
>auxiliaries, and for beating up on ethically challenged civilians, but        
>militarily they are useless. A fighter just cant mount big enough weapons    
>to hurt ships of the line).                                                   

I agree with you to a point - certainly light fighters will only be of real use 
against the aforementioned ECC's, or of course any traders that the enemy has 
knocking around.

I have also designed a medium (33 tons, 100 MCr) and a heavy (50 tons, 145 
MCr) fighter in the same style as the Waft, and using Bruce's MCS (first draft) 
the gun on the medium is capable of doing surface hits to military ships upto 
~5000 tons (destroyer/escort sized), and inflicting real damage on PC sized 
ships.  I haven't rated the gun on the large, but it is more powerful again.  This 
means that heavy fighters can assist in taking out escorts, which free up your 
escorts to assist in taking out cruisers, etc.
                                                                          
>>The Fanfare carries four 15 std light fighters (designed for the Waft         
>>                                                                         
>>Displacement: 446 std                                                        
>>Price: 770 MCr                                                               
[much snippage]
>*curious* whats it got in it to justify 770 MCr ... 4 15dton fighters could
>be put on external grapples, with one internal bay for one to be worked on.  

Umm
4 x 300 MJ laser, grouped as 2 batteries of 2 w. MFD's
4 x twin missile launcher barbettes w. MFD's
A big fusion plant.
More of that drive masking & stealth stuff (suprise!)

Oh yeah, and 4 external grapples :)


Martin Pickett 
ceemfcp@cee.hw.ac.uk
Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are alive, well and living on Sylea 
IMTU 1.0 tc+ tm+ tn- t4+ ru@ ge++(-) 3i+ jt- au+ ls+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 10:32:37 -0400
From: Joseph Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Fighters & Carriers

Related to fighter/carrier type vessels, has anyone tried to make a merchant class
vessel using this technique.  Eliminate the maneuver thrusters and gravitics and just
use landing craft to pick up cargo/passengers and fuel.  With the much smaller
shuttles, thrusters aren't as big ticket an item for super freighters.  Since the
standard procedure is week in jump and a week in system, that gives plenty of time to
shuttle back and forth from the ship.  In case of emergency, the shuttle can provide
minimal thrust to tow the freighter. Perhaps the best part is the small shuttle teams
that conduct planet relations, which fit right into the "PC party" concept without
saddling them with a huge ship payment burden.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 16:57:57 +0000
From: "Carlos Alos-Ferrer" <Carlos.Alos-Ferrer@univie.ac.at>
Subject: Re: Vland in M:0

From: rolfe@skie.its.unimelb.edu.au
>I was looking through the First Survey data last night and noticed
>that Vland has a pop digit of 3.  How is it possible that a world 
>that brought about the largest interstellar empire known should have 
>less than 10000 people??
>{ I Just hope i'm reading the uwp wrong!}

	Unfortunately, you are reading it right. M:0 was computer-generated 
with a lot of mistakes. (Did you already notice that almost all 
planets have Law=Gob?). IMM0U (In My Milieu:0 Universe), Vland has 
Pop 9.

>This isnt even enough to purchace a single colony ship!
>Also, Dlan/Iliesh has a TL of D.  Is this at all realistic?

	This is not so important, because it does not mean a uniform TL:D in 
all fields. I assume TL:D is an average, meaning e.g. advanced 
biological sciences but TL:C in starships and military. My Geonee 
Second Confederation in M:0 has access to TL:D in some fields (even 
better, sometimes!), but this does not mean they can "outtech" the 3I 
in the most relevant fields for expansion...

>A While back, someone published a URL to some corrected M:0 data,
>anyone remember the address?

	I corrected Massilia sector. Find it at
htttp://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/8772

	Carlos Alos-Ferrer

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 08:06:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, Rob Prior wrote:
> As a matter of interest, how many other people (besides me) played
> Traveller when it was first released?

Well, pretty close - I started playing Traveller in 1981. Ahhh, the good
old crew of the Scout Courier "Mudscow" - those were the days!

Ben 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 10:10:52 -0500
From: "Andy Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: Letter of Marque

My copy of LOM arrived today..I am extremely pleased with it. If Mr. Sanders
decides to release any other material, I will be one of the first in line to
order...

...relating to a previous TML thread, LOM concedes that true all-in-out
"piracy" can be difficult if not impossible...but offers up that
Privateering and Tradewar actions can affectively be the same thing. It also
offers up the opinion that as long as the rules of warfare aren't broken and
that interstellar shipping isn't _completely_ shattered, the Imperials tend
to not get involved...I think this is a good explanation for something that
is so integral to the Traveller universe, and yet can at times be hard to
reconcile with facts.

Cool book...and GREAT insert. What software was used to make the deck plans?

+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                       |
| Home: igor@ames.net - http://www.ames.net/igor/                    |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/                    |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU: tc++(**) ru+ ge 3i+ jt- au+ ls+ kk+ hi+ as+ va+ dr+ so+ zh+  |
|       vi+ da+                                                      |
| Geek: GCS d- s+:+ a- C++ W++ w+++(-)$ PS+ PE t- 5++ X+ R+++ tv+    |
|       b+++ DI+ D-- G e+ h---- r+++ y++++                           |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 17:20:51 +0200
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

>As a matter of interest, how many other people (besides me) played
>Traveller when it was first released?

Well I started 1978 with the three black books.
Bought a lot of crap from Judges Guild as well BTW.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 17:22:18 +0200
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: [OT] Re Leading Edge / B5

>PPS If you plan to play B5, you could do a lot worse than using T4.1 for
>the rules (dropping PPG availabilty/substituting lasers) and getting hold
>of TBP and the Earthforce sourcebook, combined with  the B5 security manual
>for background.

Or you could stick with the B5 task system which IMHO is far better than T4
(2D6 for starters)


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 08:17:45 -0600
From: chet-el@juno.com (Chester L Cox)
Subject: Re: 5th FW inventory

Scott Spieker " was wondering for some of you who own Fifth Frontier War
(Traveller Game 4), exactly what comes with the boxed game?  I have
recently come into
possession of one, and I'm not certain that it is missing anything."

Chet sez:  Ah, yes.  Remember this game well, and still have it hanging
in an honored place out in the garage somewhere.  Played it all of three
times, but used the background for years.  

It included about a zillion counters, most of which were lost after two
plays.  Rules booklet, which included news service bulletins, etc.  
Dice.   An 8x10 color glossy of Marc Miller with circles and arrows and a
paragraph on the back.  And a very long geneology chart for Duke Norris,
showing he was/will be a direct descendent of Walker, Texas Ranger.  We
hope none of this was missing from your copy.

*jeep!
- --Chet

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 10:34:20 -0500
From: "Buston, John" <john.buston@eds.com>
Subject: Making profits half full

>When I said that a ship could be designed that made a profit at 
>50% loading, it was suggested that this might be impossible.

I said that I couldn't do it for a freighter using canon depreciation
(1.875%) and a reasonable value for insurance (say 1%) in the expenses.
If you apply these expenses to your design then, even after bulk
discount, and installing a fuel purifier, it is not profitable at the
50% level. Though it is closer than my designs :-(

IMTU taking basic security measures reduces the corps insurance premiums
(e.g. minimal armor, turret(s), anti-hijack programs, minimum
acceleration). Hence justifying armed merchant vessels ;-). "Minimal" is
defined in terms of the value of the ship and its cargo, so bigger ships
need more / bigger / better measures. Measures above the basic level
reduce premiums still further though in ever smaller increments. So
while it may be cost effective for a big ship to have lots of measures,
small ships get by with much less, 

[snip: design for a basic 1000DT freighter]

Why no fuel purifier? A minimal purifier would make your design more
profitable.

It is normal to have triple redundancy in computers, as your life does
depend on them. It may then be cheaper to use a slightly lower spec
computer and have an extra engineer, though this is largely a matter of
personal taste.

I am a little concerned that it can only manage about 1.08G when full.
Obviously it can't take off with a full load on any planet with a
gravity higher than this figure. Though I guess if you are getting 100%
utilization you could either take less or take lighter freight. You
probably want to charge a premium for over-standard-weight freight in
any case.

Heh Heh. Up its power rating a bit, stick on a couple of decent turrets,
give it minimal armor & strength and install huge cargo doors. When
empty it can do 3G. You can fit a fully laden free trader in your
hold... Instant corsair ;-)

John

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 16:57:33 +0100 (BST)
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

>As a matter of interest, how many other people (besides me) played
>Traveller when it was first released?

My first Traveller purchase was "The Traveller Book" hardbound, after
playing it twice.

Ewan

	Ewan Quibell
	Data Communications Technician        The Game's afoot:
	Computer Centre                       Follow your spirit, and apon
	University of Brighton                  this charge
                                              Cry 'God for Harry, England,
	E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              and Saint George !'

                                                    Henry V 3:1
	#include<stddisclamer.h>                    W. Shakespeare

	My spelling is entierly due to dyslexia, typoes and poetic license

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 12:15:48 -0400
From: Daniel Poulin <pould@netcom.ca>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

Me... Me... (hands in the air jumping up and down)

I also know about Living Steel (It still sits nicely in my bookshelf to
remind me of old time sake) and I also heard of Judge's Guild.  Ugliest
supplement to any game I ever saw (some good ideas though).  Remember
Gamelords Ltd supplements?

As for Living Steel, the same company did a roleplaying game based on Aliens
(and Dracula also) with the same system.  Interesting piece of work.

Daniel Poulin
pould@netcom.ca


At 09:54 14/07/98 -0400, Rob Prior wrote:
>>Quite scary is it not.  Help, help.  Runaway, runaway.  There be newbies
>>here who say they are old gamers.
>>
>>Next thing you will tell us, is that you have never heard of Judge's
>>Guild...
>
>Well, I've been gaming since before Traveller came out, and _I'd_ never
>heard of Living Steel.  
>
>As a matter of interest, how many other people (besides me) played
>Traveller when it was first released?
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 12:17:38 -0400
From: Daniel Poulin <pould@netcom.ca>
Subject: Any Letter of Marque left?

OK, I'll bite.

How can I get it?

Daniel Poulin
pould@netcom.ca

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 17:06:12 +0100 (BST)
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Fighters & Carriers

>Related to fighter/carrier type vessels, has anyone tried to make a
>merchant class vessel using this technique.  Eliminate the maneuver
>thrusters and gravitics and just use landing craft to pick up
>cargo/passengers and fuel.  With the much smaller shuttles, thrusters
>aren't as big ticket an item for super freighters. Since the standard
>procedure is week in jump and a week in system, that gives plenty of time
>to shuttle back and forth from the ship.  In case of emergency, the
>shuttle can provide minimal thrust to tow the freighter. Perhaps the best
>part is the small shuttle teams that conduct planet relations, which fit
>right into the "PC party" concept without saddling them with a huge ship
>payment burden.

Annic Nova rings a bell ...

Ewan

	Ewan Quibell
	Data Communications Technician        The Game's afoot:
	Computer Centre                       Follow your spirit, and apon
	University of Brighton                  this charge
                                              Cry 'God for Harry, England,
	E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              and Saint George !'

                                                    Henry V 3:1
	#include<stddisclamer.h>                    W. Shakespeare

	My spelling is entierly due to dyslexia, typoes and poetic license

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 12:55:21 -0400
From: "Buston, John" <john.buston@eds.com>
Subject: Re: [design] TL-11 Bulk Carrier

>James Clement class Bulk Carrier, Mod 4 (FF&S v2)

>3000std ...2 Jump...0 Power (/Fus:550MW, 1yr)

Had me going for a minute there. That should be 1550MW I presume.

Does it really need to carry a years fusion fuel? That's a lot of space
at TL11.

>/Purif: 72 ... Purification Plant (144hr)

The available volume suggests 144 hours, though a 6 day purifier isn't
all that useful.

John

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 13:34:55 -0400
From: "Ed Leland" <eleland@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

>As a matter of interest, how many other people (besides me) played
>Traveller when it was first released?


Started in 79... I think Kinuniir was out as I started but I remember
Research Station Gamma when it first hit the local game store.  Then again,
I also played 1st Ed Runequest (the one with the brown cover and Fanzine
look to it...) so I date myself.

Ed Leland
eleland@gte.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 10:49:41 -0700
From: "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Letter of Marque

> My copy of LOM arrived today..I am extremely pleased with it. If Mr. Sanders
> decides to release any other material, I will be one of the first in line to
> order...

I think I hate the postal service in the US... I live about 15-20 
miles from Mr. Sanders and I don't have mine yet... But the one I 
ordered as a present for someone in Illinois has gotten his (so I 
know Paul got my order), and so has yours and many others ;>

I'm watching my mailbox eagerly!

Suz

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 00:47:44 -0700
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Guns part II

SD Mooney wrote:

>  "Legate" <legate@futureone.com> wrote:
>
> >Not really Loren.  Look at Leading Edge Games.  The most Realistic Set of
> >Combat Rules around & most people I talk to like it more that any other
> >system.
>
> Ermm.. I've been gaming  for the last fifteen years and haven't heard of
> them, and neither had any of my players...
>

 Think Living Steel, most of the people I know
who like this think ICE is useable...

- --
Evyn,
Warleader of the Clan MacDude
Solus Stellamilitia Ludus, 1998 Œ

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #658
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Tuesday, July 14 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 659



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Old Gaming Systems
RE: Old Gaming Systems
Re: [design] TL-11 Bulk Carrier
Re: Old Gaming Systems
My Modified Task System
Next project...
FF&S Speadsheet version 2.6 now available
Ack...FF&S spreadsheet location
Re: Guns part II
Re: Re Minor Aliens
Re: Fleets of the Imperium
Trying to find a certain web site
Re: Letter of Marque
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Re: Old Gaming Systems 
Re: Re Minor Aliens
RE: Old Gaming Systems
Re: Letter of Marque
Re: Letter of Marque
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Re: Old Gaming Systems

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 14:01:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rob Dean <robdean@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

I got the first printing of the original Traveller in 1977, as soon as it
hit my local hobby shop.  Now playing it--that was another story entirely,
since we were wrapped up in a long-term D&D game, and I was just about the
only general purpose SF fan in the crowd...

Rob Dean
robdean@access.digex.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 13:30:51 -0500
From: "Andy Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: RE: Old Gaming Systems

On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, Rob Prior wrote:
> As a matter of interest, how many other people (besides me) played
> Traveller when it was first released?

Almost. I started in 1980.

+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                       |
| Home: igor@ames.net - http://www.ames.net/igor/                    |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/                    |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU: tc++(**) ru+ ge 3i+ jt- au+ ls+ kk+ hi+ as+ va+ dr+ so+ zh+  |
|       vi+ da+                                                      |
| Geek: GCS d- s+:+ a- C++ W++ w+++(-)$ PS+ PE t- 5++ X+ R+++ tv+    |
|       b+++ DI+ D-- G e+ h---- r+++ y++++                           |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 11:48:29 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: [design] TL-11 Bulk Carrier

At 07:37 PM 7/14/98 +0800, you wrote:
>James Clement class Bulk Carrier, Mod 4 (FF&S v2)
>Designed by Terran Trans/Stellar Shipbuilding CLLC

<snip>

Good design, but a question.  Why put a purification plant (and backup) in
an unstreamlined design?  The saving in space and cost would probably cover
the cost of refined fuel.
- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
jt- au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 11:53:43 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

At 09:54 AM 7/14/98 -0400, you wrote:

>Well, I've been gaming since before Traveller came out, and _I'd_ never
>heard of Living Steel.  

I'd heard of Living Steel, even can recall a reivew of "KViSeR Rocks!"
More familar with Phoenix Command, the only game ever to make me miss the
simplicity of Aftermath.

>As a matter of interest, how many other people (besides me) played
>Traveller when it was first released?

Craig and I started immediately after PacifiCon '77.. he may have bought
one of the first copies in California.  My first RPG purchase was
Supplement 1.
- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
jt- au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: 14 Jul 1998 15:12 EDT
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: My Modified Task System

Anders mentioned the B5 task system.  How does it compare &
contrast with T4?

Our group usually ignores the half-dice: IMTU, task difficulties
increase by d6:

Easy		1d6
Average		2d6
Difficult	3d6
Formidable	4d6
Staggering	5d6
Impossible	6d6

...or something like that.  Sure it makes tasks 'hard', but these
characters are usually pretty bulked-out stats-wise anyhow.  And
besides, as ref I can make up task rolls and even allow multiple
shots at a task roll if I want to.

Rob
IMTU tc+ t4+ ge-() 3i(+) jt a ls+ va- so- zh vi da+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 15:12:15 -0500
From: "Andy Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: Next project...

My FF&S2 ship spreadsheet is slowing down...most of the bugs have been
fixed, and most of the features have been added. Which begs the
question...what to do next?

I'm currently working on a set of Java tools for Traveller, but in the
meantime, are there any other spreadsheets that people would like to see?

Let me know..

+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                       |
| Home: igor@ames.net - http://www.ames.net/igor/                    |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/                    |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU: tc++(**) ru+ ge 3i+ jt- au+ ls+ kk+ hi+ as+ va+ dr+ so+ zh+  |
|       vi+ da+                                                      |
| Geek: GCS d- s+:+ a- C++ W++ w+++(-)$ PS+ PE t- 5++ X+ R+++ tv+    |
|       b+++ DI+ D-- G e+ h---- r+++ y++++                           |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 15:12:14 -0500
From: "Andy Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: FF&S Speadsheet version 2.6 now available

Version 2.6 of my FF&S2 starship spreadsheet is now available.

This version contains only one bug-fix:
* The LS armor was no being added to the totals.

That's it. Not a big upgrade, but the only bug that has been reported to me
in the last month.

In the excel version, I've also added macros to save/load "lightweight" text
versions of each of the individual weapon pages, thus you can save weapon
designs and bring them up in a variety of ship designs. I have not assigned
hot-keys to these macros...I couldn't think of a good combination. They can
all be found under the Macro area.

Some people have reported problems with the macros in Excel - something like
"library not found" errors or such. I have no idea what this means...the
macros work fine on my machine (and a few others I've tested on). I'm a
Quattro Pro 8 user myself, so I'm afraid I don't know much about excel. If
anyone out there knows what's causing this error, please let me know.

+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                       |
| Home: igor@ames.net - http://www.ames.net/igor/                    |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/                    |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU: tc++(**) ru+ ge 3i+ jt- au+ ls+ kk+ hi+ as+ va+ dr+ so+ zh+  |
|       vi+ da+                                                      |
| Geek: GCS d- s+:+ a- C++ W++ w+++(-)$ PS+ PE t- 5++ X+ R+++ tv+    |
|       b+++ DI+ D-- G e+ h---- r+++ y++++                           |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 15:12:16 -0500
From: "Andy Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: Ack...FF&S spreadsheet location

I realize that I did not say where you can get my FF&S spreadsheet (if
you're new)...

It can be found on my traveller web site:

http://www.ames.net/igor/traveller/

If you simply want to download the file, go into the Filelist area. If you
would rather look around, the files can be found in the Operations area of
both the frames and non-frames version.


+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                       |
| Home: igor@ames.net - http://www.ames.net/igor/                    |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/                    |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU: tc++(**) ru+ ge 3i+ jt- au+ ls+ kk+ hi+ as+ va+ dr+ so+ zh+  |
|       vi+ da+                                                      |
| Geek: GCS d- s+:+ a- C++ W++ w+++(-)$ PS+ PE t- 5++ X+ R+++ tv+    |
|       b+++ DI+ D-- G e+ h---- r+++ y++++                           |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 17:51:23 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Guns part II

"Legate" <legate@futureone.com> wrote:

>Quite scary is it not.  Help, help.  Runaway, runaway.  There be newbies
>here who say they are old gamers.

Hmm. If I was sensitive I could take offense at that.....

>Next thing you will tell us, is that you have never heard of Judge's
>Guild...

Is that like the 'Bar Association'?

;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 21:07:20 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Re Minor Aliens

Steven McKenzie <goldgrif@glasscity.net> wrote:


>>And IG's Alien's Archive is surprisingly good...
>>Dom

>do tell!!!!!!]
>Where is this Archive??

Well, back in 96 there was this company called Imperium Games (IG) and they
published a game called 'Marc Miller's Traveller',  sometimes refered to on
this list as T4. The fourth book they published was called 'Alien's
Archive', and should still be available....

IGI-1300S ISBN 1-57828-313-2 $22.95 108 pages

12 Minor races

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 15:22:18 -0500
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Fleets of the Imperium

Hans Rancke-Madsen replied:

> >Perhaps the cruisers were in poor shape.  They are 120 years old or so, and
> >were originally tech-14 ships.  On the other hand, the conversion to CF and
> >tech-15 was done more recently (about 40 years back).  
>
> They can't be in all that bad a shape or they would have been scrapped
> rather than mothballed. After all, mothballed ships require maintenance
> too, so they would have to have some potential value to the Imperium.

True enough.   

> I have no problem postulating that the Azhantis were put at the very end
> of the reactivation queue. What I doubt is that they would be so poor
> ships that they would even be put behind new construction (new construction
> taking ten times as long as reactivation).

I'm mostly in agreement with you there.  I suspect they're near the end of
the queue, but that there's been new construction going on at the same time
as all the reactivations.  After all, it takes a long time to build a ship,
so they'll want to be working on them early as well.

Here's another question.  What's the current condition of Spinward Marches
Fleet?  How long is it going to take them to replace losses taken during 
the 5FW (ended 1110)?  How bad were those losses?

  -- Steve Bonneville

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 21:41:13 +0100
From: "Paul James" <paul@turing.tcp.co.uk>
Subject: Trying to find a certain web site

I was browsing the web from work today and came across a web site with
subsector maps for the entire traveller universe (well it seemed like it
anyway. A couple of places it certainly had were the riftspan area &
nicosia/aubaine area. As I am just starting a TNE campaign in the RC (and
before pre-empt people suggesting another area or version of trav I've
chosen this because its what I happen to own and seeing as its my first game
I do like having some source material to start from). I would like to be
able to print out old maps to give to the players (of course how much useful
information they will get out of them other than star locations is
debatable.

Cheers

Paul

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 13:50:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Cook <markc@peak.org>
Subject: Re: Letter of Marque

Andy Akins <igor@ames.net> writes:

> Cool book...and GREAT insert. What software was used to make the deck plans?

Andy, I did the subsector map and all of the deckplans using
CorelDRAW! 8.0.  It's my first choice whenever vector graphics
are required.

        - Mark C.
          Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy
          EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75
          Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR
          NRA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 mark f. cook * mark cook consulting *  shoestring graphics & printing
 2055 s.w. whiteside dr. * corvallis, or, 97333-1406 * markc@ssgfx.com
 Phone: 541-753-2732      Fax: 541-753-2738       http://www.ssgfx.com
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
       "Where am I... and what am I doing in this handbasket?"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 15:52:45 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

On 07/14/98 at 09:54 AM,  Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior) said:

>Well, I've been gaming since before Traveller came out, and _I'd_
>never heard of Living Steel.  

It looks like some of our members are making assumptions they shouldn't
be making.  ;-> I'm certainly an oldtimer, and there are a lot of games
out there I've never heard of, and plenty of others I *have* heard of,
but whose publisher is a total mystery to me.  For example, I've *heard*
of Living Steel and Phoenix Command, but have never seen them in a game
store and never played them.  Frankly, I didn't know that Leading Edge
Games was their publisher, although I've seen/heard LEG mentioned from
time to time.

>As a matter of interest, how many other people (besides me) played
>Traveller when it was first released?

Here. 

I'm a *real* oldtimer.  I got started with the original AH wargames in
the mid-60's, created my own squad level wargame that including
roleplaying like features so several players could interact during play.
Was delighted when I found the original white box D&D, because it broke
the strict wargaming mold I was playing in and allowed me to see the
possibilities of pure roleplaying.  Went through Tunnels & Trolls (in
many ways better than D&D) and first edition of Runequest (I liked it to
read but never really made it work in play) and some sort of
semi-roleplaying Star Trek game (I've got it stored away and can't
remember who published it or if it came before or after Traveller...I
*do* remember it didn't play very well).  

Having always been a SF fan, I was on Traveller when it first came out
like a duck on a junebug!  I can't remember an exactly when in 1977 I
first saw Traveller in the game store, but I *think* I bought it about
this time of year and I *know* I bought it the first day I saw it.  That
old game store had one opened box of everything so you could browse
through the material to see if you wanted to buy it.  I remember it was
behind the counter where a sign reading "Shoplifters will be beaten to
death!" was prominently displayed.  ;-> It was, IIRC, a birthday present
from myself to myself, or maybe it was a Christmas present...us
old-timer's memory isn't as sharp as it once was...;->...but it *was*
sometime in the second half of '77.

Personally, I never directly connected Traveller with the Star Wars
movie (I remember seeing in June '77...three times ;-), but I think
Loren has said SW was an inspiration for the GDW folks, and a number of
players in my first games obviously were heavily influenced by the space
opera aspects of SW too.  In my case, the inspirations behind my first
Traveller games were Poul Anderson, A. Bertrum Chandler, and Gordon
Dickson stories.

The next few years were very interesting, with lots of good (and not so
good) stuff from GDW, Judge's Guild, Seeker, FASA (Freedonian Aeronautics
and Space Administration...I loved the whimsy), and DGP...I absolutely
*loved* the stuff by the Keith Brothers.  It seemed like everybody was
writing stuff for Traveller, and I bought a lot of it. ;->

Over time I drifted away from new material, because I was doing just
fine with what I already had, and my home-grown universe was already far
away from what was becoming...spit, spit...frozen in canon.  But I
fondly remember the exciting years of the late 70's when Traveller was
new, and there was something new and interesting to buy and *play* every
month.


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 16:31:42 -0500
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, Rob Prior wrote:
> As a matter of interest, how many other people (besides me) played
> Traveller when it was first released?

I was first exposed to the LBBs in 1980. Been hooked ever since.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 16:47:34 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

On 07/14/98 at 02:01 PM,  Rob Dean <robdean@access.digex.net> said:

>I got the first printing of the original Traveller in 1977, as soon
>as it hit my local hobby shop.  Now playing it--that was another
>story entirely, since we were wrapped up in a long-term D&D game, and
>I was just about the only general purpose SF fan in the crowd...

Sometimes it pays to be the only one willing to be the GM.  ;-> 

I was GMing an every Friday night group in '77 when I got Black Box. We
had recently finshed a fantasy campaign and had played one-of adventures
the last two or three weeks.

I got Traveller on a Saturday afternoon, read it that night, and had an
adventure ready for the next Friday night.  I handed out pre-generated
character sheets and ran a game that first week...it helped that 3 out
of the 4 players were SF fans and everyone was still hotly into SW so
they were *ready* for SF roleplaying.

I remember we had trouble with some of the rules, either I didn't
remember them or they weren't in the 3BB, so I did what I always did...I
confidently rolled a handful of dice and made something up.  The PC's
went off in a totally different direction from what I was expecting in
my notes, so again I did what I usually ended up doing...I confidently
refered to my hidden notes that had nothing to do with what was
happening and made it up as we went along.  Everybody had a lot of fun,
and after that I don't think we ever looked back.

The next week we spend the entire session creating characters (yes, I
remember a couple dying and I we quickly dumped that rule), played them
buying an old ship, then stopped and they upgraded the ship they just
bought, adding weapons and software, etc.  I've still got that first
ship in the box with my BB's.  ;->

By the third week, I had a subsector generated and the players started
exploring it.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 17:37:17 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems 

> >As a matter of interest, how many other people (besides me) played
> >Traveller when it was first released?
> 
> Here. 

I started on Snapshot in '79, I think.  I was a hardcore AD&D player at the 
time, which freaked the hell outta the wife.  Before that, in college back in 
74, 75ish, I'd done Tactics II & a few other hardcore wargames, but no 'real' 
RPG'ing.  I was playing with the CWRU gamers back in '80, even though I wasn't 
a student at the time.

>   Went through Tunnels & Trolls (in
> many ways better than D&D) and first edition of Runequest (I liked it to
> read but never really made it work in play) and some sort of
> semi-roleplaying Star Trek game (I've got it stored away and can't
> remember who published it or if it came before or after Traveller...I
> *do* remember it didn't play very well).  

Was that the FASA one?  It makes good source material for *writing* about ST, 
but as far as playing goes, it just didn't work out too good for me.

> Over time I drifted away from new material, because I was doing just
> fine with what I already had, and my home-grown universe was already far
> away from what was becoming...spit, spit...frozen in canon.  But I
> fondly remember the exciting years of the late 70's when Traveller was
> new, and there was something new and interesting to buy and *play* every
> month.

I don't collect any more, even though I *did* get LOM.  (grin)  Love it.  
Mostly, I use what I have for ideas for PBEMs I work on.  I haven't
face-to-face gamed in about 10 years now.  Kinda miss it, but I really don't
have the time...

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 17:41:06 -0400
From: Steven McKenzie <goldgrif@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Re Minor Aliens

I have it, it is ok, not like the old GDW stuff on the Majorraces though,
now thosewere the days!!!!!!:)

Ithought some other person had a lead on the older stuff, and pulling
together nall the neat stuff out there.

I remember hearing of an intelligent snake race, or two, plus of course the
dolphins,
etc

Steven McKenzie
Lord Leo Aquila
Luceo Non Uro

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 17:43:13 -0400
From: Steven McKenzie <goldgrif@glasscity.net>
Subject: RE: Old Gaming Systems

At 01:30 PM 7/14/98 -0500, you wrote:
>On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, Rob Prior wrote:
>> As a matter of interest, how many other people (besides me) played
>> Traveller when it was first released?
>
>Almost. I started in 1980.

Ne too about late 79 early 80, first sci fi rpger, still have the little
books, the atlas, major races materials, lotsa stuff!!!!
Gods, those were the Goode Old days!!!
>
>+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
>| Andrew Akins                                                       |
>| Home: igor@ames.net - http://www.ames.net/igor/                    |
>| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/                    |
>+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
>| IMTU: tc++(**) ru+ ge 3i+ jt- au+ ls+ kk+ hi+ as+ va+ dr+ so+ zh+  |
>|       vi+ da+                                                      |
>| Geek: GCS d- s+:+ a- C++ W++ w+++(-)$ PS+ PE t- 5++ X+ R+++ tv+    |
>|       b+++ DI+ D-- G e+ h---- r+++ y++++                           |
>+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
>
>
Steven McKenzie
Lord Leo Aquila
Luceo Non Uro

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 17:01:28 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Letter of Marque

On 07/14/98 at 10:49 AM,  "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com> said:

>> My copy of LOM arrived today..I am extremely pleased with it. If Mr. Sanders
>> decides to release any other material, I will be one of the first in line to
>> order...

>I think I hate the postal service in the US... I live about 15-20 
>miles from Mr. Sanders and I don't have mine yet... But the one I 
>ordered as a present for someone in Illinois has gotten his (so I 
>know Paul got my order), and so has yours and many others ;>

>I'm watching my mailbox eagerly!

That's what I've been doing. ;->

When I got home this evening, there was a thick package in my mailbox!
Yippee!  LOM arrived!  When I got to my front door there was a box next
to it.  Oh joy!  The copy of Brilliant Lances I'd mail ordered arrived
today, too!  

I just opened LoM and quickly skimmed though it.  It looks good.  I'll
get to BL after I finish with my email.

WARNING to my PBEMer's:  If I'm slow replying to your game posts this
evening, forgive me, I'm reading LoM *and* BL! ;->  

Happy Bastille day everyone!

Eris,
    having a *good* day. ;->

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 17:51:22 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: Letter of Marque

- -----Original Message-----
From: Mark Cook <markc@peak.org>
To: Traveller Mail List <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Tuesday, July 14, 1998 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: Letter of Marque


>Andy Akins <igor@ames.net> writes:
>
>> Cool book...and GREAT insert. What software was used to make the deck
plans?
>
>Andy, I did the subsector map and all of the deckplans using
>CorelDRAW! 8.0.  It's my first choice whenever vector graphics
>are required.
>
Mark,

I've been using Corel 6 for deck plans and floor plans. I haven't seen LoM
yet :( but I can't wait! If you'd like contact me by private mail and maybe
we can swap some files. I've been doing "component" designs for star ships,
then using them to "fill in" the deck outlines.

Mike Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com
"Help Wanted: Telepath, You know where to apply!"  unknown, bumper sticker.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 16:08:41 -0600 (MDT)
From: "P. ENGEBOS" <pengebos@NMSU.Edu>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, Rob Prior wrote:

> >Quite scary is it not.  Help, help.  Runaway, runaway.  There be newbies
> >here who say they are old gamers.
> >
> >Next thing you will tell us, is that you have never heard of Judge's
> >Guild...
> 
> Well, I've been gaming since before Traveller came out, and _I'd_ never
> heard of Living Steel.  
> 
> As a matter of interest, how many other people (besides me) played
> Traveller when it was first released?

Trying to raise hand, but old bones won't move.  
I did.  I remember being pissed about having to play AD&D until a Sci fi
game came out.

Peter Engebos				<pengebos@nmsu.edu>
T'Sarith, Lord deGaalth			<tsarith@io.com>
		http://web.nmsu.edu/~pengebos/

  "Here at Ortillery Command we have at our diposal hundred megawatt laser
beams, mach 20 titanium rods and guided thermonuclear bombs. Some people say
 we think that we're God. We're not God. We just borrowed his SMITE button
                        for our fire control system"

> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 17:57:34 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

- -----Original Message-----
From: Rob Prior <Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Tuesday, July 14, 1998 10:21 AM
Subject: Old Gaming Systems


>
>As a matter of interest, how many other people (besides me) played
>Traveller when it was first released?
>

Traveller Class of 1977. First set of LBBS sold by my (now long gone FNGS).
Reffed the first game for my game group (prior to Traveller mostly WWII,
Civil War, with a bit of D&D for variety) 2 weeks later.

Mike Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com
"Help Wanted: Telepath, You know where to apply!"  unknown, bumper sticker.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #659
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Tuesday, July 14 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 660



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Old Gaming Systems
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #658
Fighters (mostly CT)
Re: Letter of Marque
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #658
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Re: Guns part II
Re: Fighters & Carriers
[OFF TOPIC] Wings of Desire
Subject: Re: the Morrow Project and the pain, the pain..!
Re: 5th FW inventory
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #659
Starting Traveller
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Re: Next project...
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Re: Starting Traveller
PC Software: testers needed
Re: PC Software: testers needed
Re: Letter of Marque
Re: Trying to find a certain web site
Re: Letter of Marque
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Re: Old Gaming Systems
RE: Old Gaming Systems

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 17:20:25 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

On 07/14/98 at 05:37 PM,  "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net> said:

>>   Went through Tunnels & Trolls (in
>> many ways better than D&D) and first edition of Runequest (I liked it to
>> read but never really made it work in play) and some sort of
>> semi-roleplaying Star Trek game (I've got it stored away and can't
>> remember who published it or if it came before or after Traveller...I
>> *do* remember it didn't play very well).  

>Was that the FASA one?  It makes good source material for *writing*
>about ST,  but as far as playing goes, it just didn't work out too
>good for me.

No, this was *way* before FASA's ST game.  It was...Starships and
Spacemen, or something like that.  Maybe it was by FGU?  One of the
first things they did?  It might not have been as bad as I remember, but
my memory says that it was BAD.

Does anyone remember Starfarers Guide series that Phoenix Games put out?
I remember writing a program for my TI calculator based on the system
generation in it and building a complete sector of systems.  That's in a
box somewhere around here too. ;->


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 15:14:25 -0600
From: chet-el@juno.com (Chester L Cox)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #658

Rob Prior asked:  "As a matter of interest, how many other people
(besides me) played Traveller when it was first released?"

Not me, Rob!  I waited a few months after it was released!  (Feb or Mar
'78)  Hm.  What month *was* Traveller released in 1977?  I'm sure I
remember an interview with Marc Miller stating some Star Wars
inspiration, so it couldn't have been earlier than June 1977.  (Unless he
was influenced by those bland Thomas/Chaykin comic books.)

*jeep!
- --Chet

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 18:25:35 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Fighters (mostly CT)

I have seen the ongoing discussion about the uses of fighters, and couldn't
resist sticking my oar in the water...

     IMTU, I use the fighters in a squadron role.  As I see it (under HGv2
rules), any single hit on a fighter, while may not necessarily destroy it,
most likely will cause a mission kill (take out the weapon battery, kill the
pilot, etc.)  I assume that a squadron of fighters (10 fighters in my case)
either has some sort of datalink system w/ it's squadmates or is being
controlled by a Fighter Direction Center on the mother ship.  This enables me
to use the fighters as a single ship, w/ a battery size of 9 usually (7 w/
missiles). I keep track of the # of hits on the squadron, and reduce the
weapons code accordingly.  The ships must all be alike...same weapons systems,
same agility, same computer, etc;  anything that changes a fighter to where it
no longer matches the squadron makes it a mission-kill.

     One additional rule I use, which is neither specifically stated or denied
by HG is that ships operating at the same range to each other may combine
thier defensive fire;  that is a cruiser and a destroyer may use thier lasers
or casters against incoming fire aimed at a battleship, as long as all three
ships are at the same range.  This makes smaller ships like destroyers and
escorts much more useful in the screening role, just as DDG's and CG's today
are used to screen the CV's.  This role is also one that fighter squadrons are
a natural for...the more space and energy you can put into a mobile turret (as
it were) is more you can add to your capital ship (within reason), and it
provides the enemy w/ a target-saturated environment.  A single TL15 Tigress
can out the equivalant of 30 factor-9 lasers...thats more than any other ship
in Fighting Ships except the Kokirakk-class DN!  Granted it's mostly defensive
firepower only, but still...and how many PC's ships do you know and handle a
hit from a factor-7 nuke shot? (One crit hit for each code the weapon factor
exceeds the hull code...I don't know if it was in HG but it was in MT, and I
think its a realistic rule.)

Anyhow, any feedback or holes you might find in my reasoning would be
appreciated.  (Also, the rule regarding the defensive fire is just that:
DEFENSIVE.  No 5 DNs combining thier spinal mounts against one ship in one
shot...players tried that the first time.  You know they are:-)

Ed Jenkins (DustyLV769@aol.com, AKA aol.cop)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 15:32:43 -0700
From: "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Letter of Marque

> WARNING to my PBEMer's:  If I'm slow replying to your game posts this
> evening, forgive me, I'm reading LoM *and* BL! ;->  

Sigh.  And here I was hoping that Mira could wake up sometime soon...

;>

Suz

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 15:30:24 -0700
From: "A. O'Mary" <omary@my-dejanews.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #658

- ---




>Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 10:32:37 -0400
>From: Joseph Pettit 
>Subject: Re: Fighters & Carriers
>
>Related to fighter/carrier type vessels, has anyone tried to make a merchant class
>vessel using this technique.  Eliminate the maneuver thrusters and gravitics and just
>use landing craft to pick up cargo/passengers and fuel.  With the much smaller
>shuttles, thrusters aren't as big ticket an item for super freighters.  Since the
>standard procedure is week in jump and a week in system, that gives plenty of time to
>shuttle back and forth from the ship.  In case of emergency, the shuttle can provide
>minimal thrust to tow the freighter. Perhaps the best part is the small shuttle teams
>that conduct planet relations, which fit right into the "PC party" concept without
>saddling them with a huge ship payment burden.

This might be a good technique for a ship running bulk cargo on a known route, maybe a megacorp hauler that has shuttles waiting for it or a 'tug' to pull it to a 'high' starport'. I think I would want a minimal maneuver drive if I had any thoughts about running a free trade route.
Another idea I've been playing around with as a megacorp ship - a refinery ship (Nostromo class, anyone?) to take advantage of localized high purity deposits in asteroid belts and on planets without having to incur the unprofitable hauling of raw ore, and avoiding the cost of abandoning or moving a permanent installation when the local ore vein plays out. What size would you think appropriate?  I see it as streamlined, jump-1, man-1, use bulk haulers for the purified metals. Not an especially good ship for PC's but a possible encounter/nemesis if a corp was pirating ore reserves in restricted or interdicted areas. The PC's could be hired by the equivalent of Greenpeace or a rival corp to investigate. Comments?
>>As a matter of interest, how many other people (besides me) played
>>Traveller when it was first released?
Would 1979 be close? (I still have my original LBB's, and Paranoia Press's Scouts and Assassins - thought it was pretty cool until I tried to generate a character with it.)


- -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/  Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 18:30:43 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

In a message dated 7/14/98 15:23:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu writes:

<< No, this was *way* before FASA's ST game.  It was...Starships and
 Spacemen, or something like that.  Maybe it was by FGU?  One of the
 first things they did?  It might not have been as bad as I remember, but
 my memory says that it was BAD. >>

It could have been Space Opera by FGU.  It was HORRIBLY bad, IMHO (but I still
have it in my game room.  Go figure)  You have to be nice to it though...Phil
Macgregor was one of the designers, and he lurketh quietly hereabouts...we
don't want to offend him!  :-)

(Seriously Mr. Macgregor, it wasn't that bad...but this was 1980 also.  I
wasn't as sophisticated then as I am now, and neither was gaming)

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 18:21:31 -0400
From: Steven McKenzie <goldgrif@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Guns part II

At 12:47 AM 7/14/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>
>SD Mooney wrote:
>
>>  "Legate" <legate@futureone.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Not really Loren.  Look at Leading Edge Games.  The most Realistic Set of
>> >Combat Rules around & most people I talk to like it more that any other
>> >system.
>>
>> Ermm.. I've been gaming  for the last fifteen years and haven't heard of
>> them, and neither had any of my players...
>>
>
> Think Living Steel, most of the people I know
>who like this think ICE is useable...

I agree!!!!!

At least TRI TAC had some neat stuff and could still be played, but I did
run a Space Master/ICE game for about three years, then we went TRI TAC.
But Space MMaster has some neat stuff Dark Space, a Dunesque Universe
And if you edit the rules, it can be played!!!!!!!!! Really It can People
>
>--
>Evyn,
>Warleader of the Clan MacDude
>Solus Stellamilitia Ludus, 1998 Œ
>
>
>
>
Steven McKenzie
Lord Leo Aquila
Luceo Non Uro

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 18:23:33 -0400
From: Steven McKenzie <goldgrif@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Fighters & Carriers

Yes, in the old sysytem, it works ok, using the man off the small boats it
works, haven't translated to the new yet!!!

At 05:06 PM 7/14/98 +0100, you wrote:
>>Related to fighter/carrier type vessels, has anyone tried to make a
>>merchant class vessel using this technique.  Eliminate the maneuver
>>thrusters and gravitics and just use landing craft to pick up
>>cargo/passengers and fuel.  With the much smaller shuttles, thrusters
>>aren't as big ticket an item for super freighters. Since the standard
>>procedure is week in jump and a week in system, that gives plenty of time
>>to shuttle back and forth from the ship.  In case of emergency, the
>>shuttle can provide minimal thrust to tow the freighter. Perhaps the best
>>part is the small shuttle teams that conduct planet relations, which fit
>>right into the "PC party" concept without saddling them with a huge ship
>>payment burden.
>
>Annic Nova rings a bell ...
>
>Ewan
>
>	Ewan Quibell
>	Data Communications Technician        The Game's afoot:
>	Computer Centre                       Follow your spirit, and apon
>	University of Brighton                  this charge
>                                              Cry 'God for Harry, England,
>	E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              and Saint George !'
>
>                                                    Henry V 3:1
>	#include<stddisclamer.h>                    W. Shakespeare
>
>	My spelling is entierly due to dyslexia, typoes and poetic license
>
>
>
Steven McKenzie
Lord Leo Aquila
Luceo Non Uro

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 23:56:22 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: [OFF TOPIC] Wings of Desire

Sorry to waste the bandwidth, but I have just finished watching Wim Wenders
'Wings of Desire' and was wondering if anyone knows if there is a sequel
(as the end credits start "to be continued"). My local retailer hasn't a
clue if there is and if so, what it is called.

Thanks

Dom

(Probably best to respond to this off list - I could make it an In Nomine
thread but I reckon Traveller is a little harder, unless we bring in a
Templar plot).

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 15:58:06 -0700
From: James Brewer <jwbrewer@ucsd.edu>
Subject: Subject: Re: the Morrow Project and the pain, the pain..!

This is a little late but I've fallen behind in reading the Mailing List.
I agree that the combat system for the Morrow Project was clumsy, but the
idea of trying to save the world after the Holocaust was great.  I ran my
group in a cross over into Cadillacs and Dinosaurs.  While the Team slept
the Twilight War of Twilight 2000 was fought, the nations started to
recover then the ecosystem collapsed.  Eventually they reach the city in
the sea and make contact and try to accelerate their rebirth.  However, Mil
Gov shows up having used Morrow Project technology to freeze several
thousand personnel and their dependants.  The look on the players faces
when a Mil Gov officer asks their names turns to a terminal and gets a full
readout of their Morrow Project personnel files was fantastic.  They went
berserk when they found out how Mil Gov got the files.  It seems that one
year into the war somebody noticed that Morrow Industries was using an
excessive amount of resources for the equipment being produced.  This
resulted in the trial and execution of Bruce Morrow for treason and the
capture of the majority of the Morrow Project.  As you can imagine the
players after their escape went whole hog in hunting down and killing Mil
Gov troops.     

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 16:58:20 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: 5th FW inventory

At 08:17 am 7/14/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Dice.   An 8x10 color glossy of Marc Miller with circles and arrows
and a
>paragraph on the back.  And a very long geneology chart for Duke
Norris,

	Sounds like a typical case of American blind justice ...
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 19:03:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rob Dean <robdean@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #659

Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu> writes:
> Rob Dean wrote:
> >I got the first printing of the original Traveller in 1977...
> >Now playing it--that was another story entirely, since we were wrapped 
> >up in a long-term D&D game, and I was just about the only general 
> >purpose SF fan in the crowd...
> 
> Sometimes it pays to be the only one willing to be the GM.  ;-> 

Well, in point of fact, I was pretty much the only one willing to GM anything,
but even at that tender age I realized that I wouldn't get very far running
a game no one else was interested in playing. )-: So I kept on with D&D.

Rob Dean
robdean@access.digex.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 18:52:59 -0500
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: Starting Traveller

>Rob Prior asked:  "As a matter of interest, how many other people
>(besides me) played Traveller when it was first released?"

I bought the Hardbound Edition of the Traveller rules about '80-'81 or so,
but never got to buy anything else or play much. :-( I lived way out in the
country, and was a poor freshman in HS at the time. I wasn't able to really
join the fun until MegaTraveller came out.

Man. And I thought *I* was old for a gamer.

Ciao,

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 17:07:54 -0700
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

>As a matter of interest, how many other people (besides me) played
>Traveller when it was first released?


Well, as much as I hate to think about it, I played my first game of
Traveller in a 'after-hours' game at a bookstore in Renton, Wa back in late
'78 or early '79.  Didn't get seriously into it until '83 though...

E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller
IMTU tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls
The early bird gets the worm, BUT
   the second mouse gets the cheese!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 16:00:21 -0700
From: "Brian A. Howard" <bruadh@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Next project...

At 03:12 PM 7/14/98 -0500, you wrote:
>My FF&S2 ship spreadsheet is slowing down...most of the bugs have been
>fixed, and most of the features have been added. Which begs the
>question...what to do next?
>
>I'm currently working on a set of Java tools for Traveller, but in the
>meantime, are there any other spreadsheets that people would like to see?
>
>Let me know..

I have need of a FFS2 vehicle spreadsheet. I managed a grav vehicle well
enough with a little tweaking, but wheels, tracks, and the like just aren't
supported.

VDS and Rob Prior's Infinity-V are nice but being a PC user I kind of feel
cheated. :-)


Sincerely,

Brian A. Howard

Beware the sound of a Babel fish,
For a Vogon constructor fleet cannot be far behind.

http://home.earthlink.net/~bruadh/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 20:31:21 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

On 07/14/98 at 06:30 PM,  DustyLV769@aol.com said:

><< No, this was *way* before FASA's ST game.  It was...Starships and
> Spacemen, or something like that.  Maybe it was by FGU?  One of the
> first things they did?  It might not have been as bad as I remember,
>but my memory says that it was BAD. >>

>It could have been Space Opera by FGU.  It was HORRIBLY bad, IMHO

No, this was before Space Opera.

Ah ha!  I didn't find my copy, but I did find an old FGU catalog in my
Space Opera box.  It was _Starships and Spacemen_, by Leonard Kanterman.
The game was very Star-Treky without being exactly "Star Trek", so I'm
sure they didn't have a licence from GR or Paramount.  I'm not sure it
was so bad, but I've blocked a *lot* of it out of my memory, so I
suspect it was. ;->

 
Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 20:44:52 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller

On 07/14/98 at 06:52 PM,  "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net> said:

>I bought the Hardbound Edition of the Traveller rules about '80-'81
>or so, but never got to buy anything else or play much. :-( I lived
>way out in the country, and was a poor freshman in HS at the time. I
>wasn't able to really join the fun until MegaTraveller came out.

>Man. And I thought *I* was old for a gamer.

Oh, man!  Heck no!  You're just a youngster compared to us *real*
oldtimers.  I was *teaching* junior high when Traveller came out in '77.
Of course, age isn't a factor with Traveller, it's all in how you play
the game.  I hope we're all still going strong when we're retired and
have the time to get together and play like we did when we were kids.


Eris,
    probably one of the oldest geezers here! 

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 21:48:51 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: PC Software: testers needed

If everything goes according to plan (ha!), I'll have a DEC laptop with
CodeWarrior over the summer. I have to learn CodeWarrior enough to teach
it this fall. The best way to do this is to write a program, and seeing as
I've had a lot of requests to convert Infini-V to the PC...

What I need from the list is three things.

1) Would a console-style DOS program be acceptable?  I could do this
fairly easily, and it would save me having to learn Windows programming
without manuals.

2) Whatever I do, I'll need testers...

3) I may also need advice, so if anyone has experience with CodeWarrior
(Mac or PC)...  (My baggage alowance won't stretch to the manuals, so I'll
have to rely on as much of the online documentation as fits on the PC's
drive.)


This account (rob_prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca) will by unavailable to me as of
Wednesday night (the 15th).  In order to remain in some form of contact,
I'm going to ask Dom Mooney (dom@cybergoths.u-net.com) to act as a
gobetween. Dom will be handling distribution in any case. (My father only
has 5 hours online a month, so I won't have time to keep up with the TML
until I return.)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 21:20:46 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: PC Software: testers needed

On 07/14/98 at 09:48 PM,  Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior) said:

>If everything goes according to plan (ha!), I'll have a DEC laptop
>with CodeWarrior over the summer. I have to learn CodeWarrior enough
>to teach it this fall. The best way to do this is to write a program,
>and seeing as I've had a lot of requests to convert Infini-V to the
>PC...

>What I need from the list is three things.

>1) Would a console-style DOS program be acceptable?  I could do this
>fairly easily, and it would save me having to learn Windows
>programming without manuals.

Rob, it would for me.  I run OS/2 on my home system, this means I can
run OS/2 programs, DOS programs, Java programs and Win3.1 programs, but
can't run Win9x.  It's too bad you can't do it with a Java tool to make
it more portable, but I understand the need to use what's available.

>2) Whatever I do, I'll need testers...

I'll help out if I can run the software.  Of course, I'd *rather* have
you port Mecator or do an FFS version of Infini-V. ;->

>3) I may also need advice, so if anyone has experience with
>CodeWarrior (Mac or PC)...  (My baggage alowance won't stretch to the
>manuals, so I'll have to rely on as much of the online documentation
>as fits on the PC's drive.)

I can't help you much there, but I got a mailer from CodeWarrior at work
a couple of months ago.  It said they would *give* copies to instructors
that are using CodeWarrior to teach courses.  If you're going to be
teaching with CW this fall you might want to check with them and see if
you can get a free copy and/or manuals.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:26:40 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Letter of Marque

>>I think I hate the postal service in the US... I live about 15-20 
>>miles from Mr. Sanders and I don't have mine yet... But the one I 
>>ordered as a present for someone in Illinois has gotten his (so I 
>>know Paul got my order), and so has yours and many others ;>
>
>>I'm watching my mailbox eagerly!
>
>That's what I've been doing. ;->
>
>When I got home this evening, there was a thick package in my mailbox!
>Yippee!  LOM arrived!  When I got to my front door there was a box next
>to it.  Oh joy!  The copy of Brilliant Lances I'd mail ordered arrived
>today, too!  

I live closer to Paul than Eris, and I'm leaving on a 5-week vacation
Thursday morning (before mail delivery).  If LoM doesn't arrive tomorrow
I'm throwing a tantrum.   Hm.   :-(

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:34:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Macpherson <john35@wharton.upenn.edu>
Subject: Re: Trying to find a certain web site

> From: "Paul James" <paul@turing.tcp.co.uk>
> Subject: Trying to find a certain web site
> 
> I was browsing the web from work today and came across a web site with
> subsector maps for the entire traveller universe (well it seemed like it
> anyway. A couple of places it certainly had were the riftspan area &
> nicosia/aubaine area. As I am just starting a TNE campaign in the RC (and
> before pre-empt people suggesting another area or version of trav I've
> chosen this because its what I happen to own and seeing as its my first game
> I do like having some source material to start from). I would like to be
> able to print out old maps to give to the players (of course how much useful
> information they will get out of them other than star locations is
> debatable.

	I think that would be Chris Griffen's page at:
		http://www.best.com/~cgriffen/traveller/deneb.shtml

	As a confirmed TNE devotee, I wouldn't dream of trying to 
persuade you to switch to another version of Traveller.  In fact, I'd 
like to invite you to join the TNE-RCES mailing list, which is devoted to 
discussing and producing background for TNE.

	Send a message with the word "subscribe" in the body to 
listproc@tower.ml.org

	IMHO, it has a much higher Signal/Noise ratio than the TML.  Also,
follow the links on Chris' page to the BARD pages, which are a collection
of many of the best things posted on TNE-RCES.  You can get the complete 
archives from the listproc or a searchable but less complete version at 
www.reference.com.

- -JM

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:35:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Macpherson <john35@wharton.upenn.edu>
Subject: Re: Letter of Marque

Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu> said:
> When I got home this evening, there was a thick package in my mailbox!
> Yippee!  LOM arrived!

        Forgive me, I've been hiding in TNE-RCES, what's Letter of Marque?

- -JM

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 19:53:21 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

> From: Daniel Poulin <pould@netcom.ca>
> Me... Me... (hands in the air jumping up and down)

Sit down Horeshack. ;<)

> I also know about Living Steel (It still sits nicely in my bookshelf to
> remind me of old time sake) and I also heard of Judge's Guild.  Ugliest
> supplement to any game I ever saw (some good ideas though).  Remember
> Gamelords Ltd supplements?

Yes, but at the time JG had some great art.  Not compared to today's art,
but back then it was pretty good.

> As for Living Steel, the same company did a roleplaying game based on
Aliens
> (and Dracula also) with the same system.  Interesting piece of work.

Yes, they were.

> Daniel Poulin
> pould@netcom.ca

Legate, Militant Jewish Terrorist
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"The system does not matter, its ROLE-Playing that matters." - Me to
Acid_Blue, Chuckles, & Rob the Lumberjackman.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 19:44:14 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

> >Quite scary is it not.  Help, help.  Runaway, runaway.  There be newbies
> >here who say they are old gamers.
> >
> >Next thing you will tell us, is that you have never heard of Judge's
> >Guild...
> 
> Well, I've been gaming since before Traveller came out, and _I'd_ never
> heard of Living Steel.  

OK, so you need to hear of it.

> As a matter of interest, how many other people (besides me) played
> Traveller when it was first released?

Do you mean the LBBs?  If so me.

Legate, Militant Jewish Terrorist
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"The system does not matter, its ROLE-Playing that matters." - Me to
Acid_Blue, Chuckles, & Rob the Lumberjackman.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 20:11:18 -0700
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@home.com>
Subject: RE: Old Gaming Systems

> As a matter of interest, how many other people (besides me) played
> Traveller when it was first released?

I got Mayday whenever that came out, and then bought Traveller because I
wanted to build ships and planets. I did this for a year before I realised
you were supposed to play the game WITH OTHER PEOPLE!

My high school gaming club actually played space combat using the vector
movement system from book 1. Our ships were represented by bits of polar
coordinate graph paper glued on cardboard with fishing line coming out the
centre; we wrote down our current velocity (eg. 10cm at 225 degrees) and
figured weapon ranges and course changes with the fishing line. Ghod, it
was great.

- --
IMTU t4+ ru ge+ !3i(3i++) jt-- au+ ls- 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #660
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Wednesday, July 15 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 661



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Old Gaming Systems
Old Gaming SYStems
Re: Old Gaming Systems
FF&S Spreadsheet
Re: Letter of Marque
Re: My Modified Task System
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Re: space 1999 Dates
Re:  Letter of Marque:  TML  #643
Re: Traveller and Star Wars (was Re: Old Gaming Systems)
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Re: Old Gaming Systems 
Re: Old Gaming SYStems
Old Gaming Systems
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Re: Fleets of the Imperium
Re: Letter of Marque
Re: Old Gaming Systems 
Re: Old Gaming Systems 
Re: Letter of Marque 
Re: space 1999 Dates 
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Re: Old Gaming SYStems

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 20:58:16 -0600
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

>As a matter of interest, how many other people (besides me) played
>Traveller when it was first released?

December, 1977.  I traded in my Star Wars pastiche, based on D&D rules (the
Little Brown Books), and never looked back...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 20:13:02 -0700
From: "A. O'Mary" <omary@my-dejanews.com>
Subject: Old Gaming SYStems

>Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 11:53:43 -0700
>From: dberry@hooked.net

>Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

.At 09:54 AM 7/14/98 -0400, you wrote:

>Well, I've been gaming since before Traveller came out, and _I'd_ never
>heard of Living Steel.  

>I'd heard of Living Steel, even can recall a reivew of >"KViSeR Rocks!"
>More familar with Phoenix Command, the only game >ever to make me miss the
>simplicity of Aftermath.
Gee, and I really LIKE Aftermath...
ALO


- -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/  Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 23:07:33 -0400
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

At 10:12 AM 7/14/98 -0500, you wrote:
<Snip>...
>As a matter of interest, how many other people (besides me) played
>Traveller when it was first released?
> 

I played it a bit in 1977 but moved back to FRPGs when Runequest came out
in Summer 1978...  The people to whom I had ready gaming access were just
that - wargamers - and our SFRPG sessions quickly turned into SF skirmish
games, nothing more, through no fault of the game system...



Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 20:17:27 -0700
From: "A. O'Mary" <omary@my-dejanews.com>
Subject: FF&S Spreadsheet

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 15:12:14 -0500
From: "Andy Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: FF&S Speadsheet version 2.6 now available

Version 2.6 of my FF&S2 starship spreadsheet is now available.



Some people have reported problems with the macros in Excel - something like
"library not found" errors or such. I have no idea what this means...the
macros work fine on my machine (and a few others I've tested on). I'm a
Quattro Pro 8 user myself, so I'm afraid I don't know much about excel. If
anyone out there knows what's causing this error, please let me know.

I've had some problems with Excel recognizing macros from other spreadsheets, especially Lotus. It seems that Excel uses Visual Basic as a macro language, and will translate only very basic macros from other spreadsheets. Hope this helps.
ALO


- -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/  Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 23:10:19 -0400
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: Letter of Marque

My copy showed today - quite a bit bigger than I expected!  No complaints,
though - what I've read so far (in LoM!) looks good...  I'm glad it had a
plastic/card cover, as the USPS tried to eat the package; it looks as if
something with claws took a swipe at the back cover (and the mailing
envelope on that side!)  No critical harm done, though...

Tx!



Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:21:53 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: My Modified Task System

On 07/14/98 at 03:12 PM,  Robert Eaglestone <eaglesto@nortel.ca> said:

>Anders mentioned the B5 task system.  How does it compare & contrast
>with T4?

>Our group usually ignores the half-dice: IMTU, task difficulties
>increase by d6:

>Easy       1d6
>Average    2d6
>Difficult  3d6
>Formidable 4d6
>Staggering 5d6
>Impossible 6d6

>...or something like that.  Sure it makes tasks 'hard', but these
>characters are usually pretty bulked-out stats-wise anyhow.  And
>besides, as ref I can make up task rolls and even allow multiple
>shots at a task roll if I want to.

That's the task system I strongly recommend for T4 and the eventual
T4.1, unless we reverted to TNE's 1d20.  I actually have found a couple
of uses for 1d3's (the half die), but *really* don't want it in the Task
system. Except I call Average, Routine, and Impossible I call Hopeless.

I also recommend keeping the Attributes to a narrower range, say ranging
from 4 to 10 for normal humans.  Characteristics above 10 should be the
provence of the truly exceptional human, and anything below 4 is pretty
much disabled.  If the player wants to play very low or very high, then
that's fine, but it should be a player call and the GM should vet those
decisions not a random die, IMO.  Limiting humans to this range also
allows aliens to extend higher or lower in selected attributes...for
flavor.

With the probabilities from the dice sequences printed above, assets
around 12 are right for "professional" level characters, 74% at
difficult tasks and virtually guaranteed at average ones.  This means
you generally need skill levels of 4 to 8 for PC's with stats around
average.

This means Skill Levels need to be a *little* higher.  And that means
you need to give out a few more skills for each term.  Personally, I
like the player to have a lot of say in what skills they get, but I also
want an element of random luck and requirements based on background and
careers. 

As for as numbers, I use 4 per term from the career's required list,
plus 2 free pick "hobby" skills, plus the possibility of 1 more from
commission or promotion.  That give 6 or 7 skills per term.  Characters
also get 6 to 8 background skills, depending on homeworlds, tech levels
and so on, and another 3 or 4 levels of career skills during the basic
training for their careers.  A 6 term adventurer (42 years old) gets
from 45 to 58 levels to spread across his skills.

With a skill list like T4/T4.1 (MT or TNE too for that matter) a well
developed character will have somewhere around 15 skills...in my
experience.  And with this scale what you need is something like, one or
two at 7-8, two or three at 5-6, three or four at 3-4, and five or six
and 1-2.

This works.

Of course, if the player has a good concept go with that.  Don't be a
slave to any particular system.

This works even better. ;->


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:18:29 -0500
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@fastlane.net>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

At 09:54 AM 7/14/1998 -0400, Rob Prior wrote:
>As a matter of interest, how many other people (besides me) played
>Traveller when it was first released?
> 
I believe I first started playing Traveller in about '82.  I didn't
seriously get into playing it until about '86, when I joined a group
playing in Dallas.  The group has been playing it off and on since then,
right Sam.

Jimmy Simpson
	nimrodd@fastlane.net
"Cannot say.
 Saying, I would know.
 Do not know.
 So cannot say."
		-Zathras (Babylon 5)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:23:03 -0500
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@fastlane.net>
Subject: Re: space 1999 Dates

At 05:19 PM 7/13/1998 +0100, you wrote:
>I just checked the video of the pilot  episode  "Breakaway".  The
>story _starts_ on 9th September with a member  of  the  radiation
>monitoring team going mad over at Nuclear Waste Disposal  Area  2
>(smaller than Area  1),  and  Walter  Koenig  

John Koenig, Walter Koenig plays Alfred Bester on B5, and I believe he
played a small part on an older SF show.  : )

>being  informed  by
>Simmons while enroute to the moon that he is now base  commander.
>_But_ the detonation of Area 1 (which  blasts  the  moon  out  of
>orbit) happens days later.  The openning  credits  always  report
>this as occuring on 13th September.  Thus the pilot episode spans
>4 days events.
>
>Someone worked out once that the force needed to blast  the  moon
>out of orbit and into interstellar space would actually pulverise
>it into rubble!
>
>However isn't this a little OT?
>
>Regards PLST
><the tagless one>
>
>___________________________________
>To sign up for a free email account, visit http://www.postmaster.co.uk.
> 

Jimmy Simpson
	nimrodd@fastlane.net
"Cannot say.
 Saying, I would know.
 Do not know.
 So cannot say."
		-Zathras (Babylon 5)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 21:37:52 -0600
From: "Eric T.  or Maryann C. Holmes" <holmberg@thuntek.net>
Subject: Re:  Letter of Marque:  TML  #643

Paul and the Rest:

I got my copy of "LOM" on Saturday and have spent the entire weekend reading.

Thanks for a great product, even if it is a "draft" in nature.  It's a toss
up as to what will be the most useful item in the whole shebang.  I never
will see trade war in the same light.

Planetary development is definitely speeded up, but if  an individual is
still a little anal concerning details, they can find other resources.

I can see Cabot Enterprises and OBERG (Obergische Biologisk Engenjorisk
Raumforschung Gruppe) have their work cut out for themselves.  Cabot being
a quasi-military company of ex-Imperial Marine and Scout investors and
OBERG being a group of Naval Architects, Computer Programmers, and
Bio-Engineers.  Outright piracy would not be in either company's style, but
corporate espionage, payoffs, a few accidents might be up their sleeves.

By the way, who has the ISBA company description/registration form?

I might be interested in the further NPC and company development of OBERG.

Again, thanks Paul for your efforts.

The Eclipsed Sun of Rhylanor, OBERG and Cabot Enterprises are the product
of Eric and Maryann Holmes' fertile imaginations.  Any resemblance to
persons or companies with these names is purely coincidental.






Eric T. Holmes
holmberg@thuntek.net
6pm to Midnight Mountain Time
505-896-8061

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 21:19:07 -0600
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller and Star Wars (was Re: Old Gaming Systems)

>Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 15:14:25 -0600
>From: chet-el@juno.com (Chester L Cox)
>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #658
>
>Rob Prior asked:  "As a matter of interest, how many other people
>(besides me) played Traveller when it was first released?"
>
>Not me, Rob!  I waited a few months after it was released!  (Feb or Mar
>'78)  Hm.  What month *was* Traveller released in 1977?  I'm sure I
>remember an interview with Marc Miller stating some Star Wars
>inspiration, so it couldn't have been earlier than June 1977.  (Unless he
>was influenced by those bland Thomas/Chaykin comic books.)
>

The book _Star_Wars_, by George Lucas, came out in October 1976 - complete
with "Soon to be a major motion picture!" on the back (surely one of the
all-time great understatements). The movie came out in May 1977, and
Traveller in June 1977.

It sounds facetious, but I have always liked the book just a little bit
better...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 21:26:39 -0600
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

>Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 18:30:43 EDT
>From: DustyLV769@aol.com
>Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems
>
>In a message dated 7/14/98 15:23:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
>reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu writes:
>
><< No, this was *way* before FASA's ST game.  It was...Starships and
> Spacemen, or something like that.  Maybe it was by FGU?  One of the
> first things they did?  It might not have been as bad as I remember, but
> my memory says that it was BAD. >>
>
>It could have been Space Opera by FGU.  It was HORRIBLY bad, IMHO (but I
still
>have it in my game room.  Go figure)  You have to be nice to it though...Phil
>Macgregor was one of the designers, and he lurketh quietly hereabouts...we
>don't want to offend him!  :-)
>

I liked Space Opera - it was a great Traveller sourcebook...

No, there really was a game called Starships and Spacemen, by Capt. Leonard
H. Kanterman, MD, US Army Medical Corps - "Carry Out Missions in the Final
Frontier", "Science Fiction Role Play".  (c) 1978, FGU, intro says it was
compatible with the Galactic Conquest quasi-roleplaying game.

Love those fuzzy little blue trisexual Andromedans.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 19:25:08 -0500
From: "Pat Connaughton" <pconnaught@fiastl.net>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems 

>> >As a matter of interest, how many other people (besides me) played
>> >Traveller when it was first released?
>>
>> Here.
>
I started in the late 70's. I'm uncertain as to the exact year. But I recall
Snapshot,
and that we played a pre-release version of the LBB's at an old game store
in St. Louis called the Dragon's Lair.

I loved the game from then on. I've been playing pretty steadily since.
Thanks

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:38:22 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming SYStems

On 07/14/98 at 08:13 PM,  "A. O'Mary" <omary@my-dejanews.com> said:


>>I'd heard of Living Steel, even can recall a reivew of >"KViSeR Rocks!"
>>More familar with Phoenix Command, the only game >ever to make me miss the
>>simplicity of Aftermath.

>Gee, and I really LIKE Aftermath...

And so you should!  ;->

Aftermath was (and still is) a neat system.  The combat system wasn't
nearly as hard as it *looked*, but it is more complicated than I'd want
to use today.  From what I hear, Phoenix Command would have swamped me
even in my rules heavy days.  ;-> It could use a more modern task
system...hum...maybe a graft from TNE would fit.

Even if you don't use Aftermath's systems to play, the environment is
good.  I plopped more than a few TW2K survivors into an Aftermath of one
disaster or other.


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 23:18:28 -0500
From: Alex Ingram <ingram@airmail.net>
Subject: Old Gaming Systems

SpaceFarers Guide Series by Phoenix Games? Not only do I remember it I
still have it in by collection. It was a two book series Sector I and
II. Phoenix also put out two other books "Alien Races" and "Alien
Monsters". I occassionally use these books for ideals and reference.

And you really want some poorly designed games try SPI's Universe or
FGU's Other Suns. I still gleen occassional info from them, by as a game
they were useless.

Alex Ingram
ingram@airmail.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:32:49 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

At 10:18 pm 7/14/98 -0500, you wrote:
>At 09:54 AM 7/14/1998 -0400, Rob Prior wrote:
>>As a matter of interest, how many other people (besides me) played
>>Traveller when it was first released?

	Closest I can claim is '81 ...
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 23:44:48 -0500
From: Alex Ingram <ingram@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

> I'm a *real* oldtimer.  I got started with the original AH wargames in
> the mid-60's, created my own squad level wargame that including
> roleplaying like features so several players could interact during play.
> Was delighted when I found the original white box D&D, because it broke
> the strict wargaming mold I was playing in and allowed me to see the
> possibilities of pure roleplaying.  Went through Tunnels & Trolls (in
> many ways better than D&D) and first edition of Runequest (I liked it to
> read but never really made it work in play) and some sort of
> semi-roleplaying Star Trek game (I've got it stored away and can't
> remember who published it or if it came before or after Traveller...I
> *do* remember it didn't play very well).
>
> Having always been a SF fan, I was on Traveller when it first came out
> like a duck on a junebug!  I can't remember an exactly when in 1977 I
> first saw Traveller in the game store, but I *think* I bought it about
> this time of year and I *know* I bought it the first day I saw it.  That
> old game store had one opened box of everything so you could browse
> through the material to see if you wanted to buy it.  I remember it was
> behind the counter where a sign reading "Shoplifters will be beaten to
> death!" was prominently displayed.  ;-> It was, IIRC, a birthday present
> from myself to myself, or maybe it was a Christmas present...us
> old-timer's memory isn't as sharp as it once was...;->...but it *was*
> sometime in the second half of '77.
>
> Personally, I never directly connected Traveller with the Star Wars
> movie (I remember seeing in June '77...three times ;-), but I think
> Loren has said SW was an inspiration for the GDW folks, and a number of
> players in my first games obviously were heavily influenced by the space
> opera aspects of SW too.  In my case, the inspirations behind my first
> Traveller games were Poul Anderson, A. Bertrum Chandler, and Gordon
> Dickson stories.
>
> The next few years were very interesting, with lots of good (and not so
> good) stuff from GDW, Judge's Guild, Seeker, FASA (Freedonian Aeronautics
> and Space Administration...I loved the whimsy), and DGP...I absolutely
> *loved* the stuff by the Keith Brothers.  It seemed like everybody was
> writing stuff for Traveller, and I bought a lot of it. ;->
>
> Over time I drifted away from new material, because I was doing just
> fine with what I already had, and my home-grown universe was already far
> away from what was becoming...spit, spit...frozen in canon.  But I
> fondly remember the exciting years of the late 70's when Traveller was
> new, and there was something new and interesting to buy and *play* every
> month.
>
> Eris
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> "Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
> -----------------------------------------------------------

I too have had parallel gaming experiences. I started with Tactics II in the
'60s and progressed to AD&D in the seventies. I remember picking up the black
box set at a gaming convention in West Germany while in the U.S. Army in
1978. I remember trying to make sense of the books and immediately
transformed my AD&D group into a Traveller group. I guess I was a child of
the original StarTrek series and found the game innovative but lacking and
started to design my own universe, which has progressed to approximately ten
boxes of material - including almost everything ever published on Traveller
and its' versions. I found myself running games not only in Germany but later
as a civilian in San Antonio, Houston, Austin, and currently, Dallas. If
anyone in Dallas is interested in joining a serious highly modified campaign
Traveller group in Dallas I'm starting such a group and would enjoy hearing
from you via e-mail or phone at (972) 783-4575)!

Alex Ingram
ingram @airmail.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 21:53:15 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Fleets of the Imperium

>From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
>Subject: Re: Fleets of the Imperium
...
>Here's another question.  What's the current condition of Spinward Marches
>Fleet?  How long is it going to take them to replace losses taken during 
>the 5FW (ended 1110)?  How bad were those losses?

  Given its' exposed position on the Frontier, and the purpose of the 
interior fleets as reserves, aren't the local losses simply going to
be made good from ships arriving as reinforcements? (also, once the
war gets going there should be a heck of a string of them coming up
well after the war is over)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 21:53:50 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Letter of Marque

>>>I think I hate the postal service in the US... I live about 15-20 
>>>miles from Mr. Sanders and I don't have mine yet... But the one I 
...
>I live closer to Paul than Eris, and I'm leaving on a 5-week vacation
>Thursday morning (before mail delivery).  If LoM doesn't arrive tomorrow
>I'm throwing a tantrum.   Hm.   :-(

  OTOH, the care package for those of us in south-western British Columbia
arrived today, without benefit of customs charges. I'll be contacting you
guys tomorrow night - shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca

  And of course a further thanks to Mr. Sanders from all of us.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 00:44:26 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems 

> In a message dated 7/14/98 15:23:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu writes:
> 
> << No, this was *way* before FASA's ST game.  It was...Starships and
>  Spacemen, or something like that.  Maybe it was by FGU?  One of the
>  first things they did?  It might not have been as bad as I remember, but
>  my memory says that it was BAD. >>
> 
> It could have been Space Opera by FGU.  It was HORRIBLY bad, IMHO (but I still
> have it in my game room.  Go figure)  You have to be nice to it though...Phil
> Macgregor was one of the designers, and he lurketh quietly hereabouts...we
> don't want to offend him!  :-)

I've got a copy of Space Opera laying around someplace, though I just have the 
two books & not the insert.  Never played it, but it looked *somewhat* 
interesting.  The thought of a fission-powered FTL ship kinda boggles the 
mind, methinks...

Keven
- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 00:49:13 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems 

> Ah ha!  I didn't find my copy, but I did find an old FGU catalog in my
> Space Opera box.  It was _Starships and Spacemen_, by Leonard Kanterman.
> The game was very Star-Treky without being exactly "Star Trek", so I'm
> sure they didn't have a licence from GR or Paramount.  I'm not sure it
> was so bad, but I've blocked a *lot* of it out of my memory, so I
> suspect it was. ;->

Memory modification thru recreational chemistry perchance?  Rather
inefficient...

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 00:53:37 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Letter of Marque 

> Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu> said:
> > When I got home this evening, there was a thick package in my mailbox!
> > Yippee!  LOM arrived!
> 
>         Forgive me, I've been hiding in TNE-RCES, what's Letter of Marque?

A *NEW* Traveller supplement writtien by Andrew Keith.  It deals with piracy, 
privateering, & the like in and around the Carrillian Assembly in Reavers' 
Deep.  It was just printed up a couple weeks ago, with a limited run.

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 00:58:13 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: space 1999 Dates 

> At 05:19 PM 7/13/1998 +0100, you wrote:
> >I just checked the video of the pilot  episode  "Breakaway".  The
> >story _starts_ on 9th September with a member  of  the  radiation
> >monitoring team going mad over at Nuclear Waste Disposal  Area  2
> >(smaller than Area  1),  and  Walter  Koenig  
> 
> John Koenig, Walter Koenig plays Alfred Bester on B5, and I believe he
> played a small part on an older SF show.  : )

He played an ensign on the *ONE TRUE TREK* series, back when even Gene 
Roddenberry (may he rest in peace) was known to say 'Ye canna change the laws 
of physics!!'

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:17:58 -0700
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

Rob Prior wrote:
...
> Well, I've been gaming since before Traveller came out, and _I'd_ never
> heard of Living Steel.
> 
> As a matter of interest, how many other people (besides me) played
> Traveller when it was first released?

Yes, I remember the original shiny black box.  $12 for the complete game
wasn't it?

I think I've seen Living Steel but I didn't pay it much attention.  I
don't have any idea how good it is.

Kristian

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:13:15 -0700
From: "Brannon \"Ben\" Boren" <brannonb@blarg.net>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming SYStems

Eris Reddoch wrote:
> 
> On 07/14/98 at 08:13 PM,  "A. O'Mary" <omary@my-dejanews.com> said:
> 
> >>I'd heard of Living Steel, even can recall a reivew of >"KViSeR Rocks!"
> >>More familar with Phoenix Command, the only game >ever to make me miss the
> >>simplicity of Aftermath.
> 
> >Gee, and I really LIKE Aftermath...
> 
> And so you should!  ;->
> 
> Aftermath was (and still is) a neat system.  The combat system wasn't
> nearly as hard as it *looked*, but it is more complicated than I'd want
> to use today.  From what I hear, Phoenix Command would have swamped me
> even in my rules heavy days.  ;-> 

Hard to believe it was designed by the same guy who did Shadowrun, hmm? 
If you read the one paragraph blurbs in the back of the Aftermath book,
one of the things Paul Hume muses about is how cool a setting it would
be if Magic started working again after the war...

Ben

- --
Brannon "Ben" Boren
brannonb@blarg.net
http://www.mog.net/brannonb/

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #661
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Wednesday, July 15 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 662



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Old Gaming Systems
RPG Art - Was: Old Gaming Systems
[design] TL-11 Bulk Carrier - revised
Pictures of Strephon
Re: Letter of Marque
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Re: Next project...
Re: Making profits half full
Re: Pictures of Strephon 
Re: Letter of Marque 
Re: Fighters and Stuff
Traveller In Pyramid
Re: Pictures of Strephon 
Re: Traveller In Pyramid
Re: Pictures of Strephon
Re: FF&S Speadsheet version 2.6 now available
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Re: Starting Traveller
Re: Trying to find a certain web site
Re: Norris' position
Re: Traveller, Current Status
LOM
Re: Fighters and Stuff

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:25:51 -0700
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

Eris Reddoch wrote:
...
> >>   Went through Tunnels & Trolls (in
> >> many ways better than D&D) 

Or it's spin-off, "Monsters, Monsters!"  I cut my role playing teeth on
that game at 14.  Traveller followed soon after that.

Kristian

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:29:43 -0700
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
Subject: RPG Art - Was: Old Gaming Systems

Legate wrote:
...
> > remind me of old time sake) and I also heard of Judge's Guild.  
...
> Yes, but at the time JG had some great art.  Not compared to today's art,
> but back then it was pretty good.

Still, I liked the old black and white sketches better than the gloss
today.  It left more to the imagination I think--more inspirational for
getting into character. 

Kristian

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 13:28:20 +0800
From: "Michael Bailey" <mickb@opera.iinet.net.au>
Subject: [design] TL-11 Bulk Carrier - revised

That'll teach me to fire off a design that late at night.  Here t'is again,
with mods:

The power plant is now the correct size, with just over 5 weeks fuel
carried.

The fuel purification plant has been removed (you're right Doug - it does
seem pointless on an unstreamlined vehicle with this role).

- ---

James Clement class Bulk Carrier (FF&S v2)
Designed by TransStellar Shipbuilding UC

Statistics
 Tons: 3000std ( USL Med Cylinder )  Crew: 18/18 Cargo: 1519std (0/10
/Hdl:1x20ton0)
 Volume: 42000m3  Passengers High/Med: 0/0 Cost: 374.359 MCr
 Mass (L/C): 34181t/12129t  Passengers Low: 0 Maintenance Points: 508
 Dimensions: 60m x 29.8m x 29.8m  Troops/Science: 0/0 Tech Level: 11
 Size: 9  Frozen Watch: 0

Electronics
 Controls: Dynamic, High automation. 3xComp (CM:0.6 CP:1.67). Bridge.
 Communications: 1xRadio (500,000km, 0.17MW). 1xLaser (500,000km, 0MW).
 Sensors: 1xFld PEMS (12.5 [1.6mkm] Fld, 0MW). 1xAEMS (5, 0.01MW).
 Survey/Science:
 ECM:
 Signatures: Vis:0.5, IR:0.5 (0.5 at 1098MW, 0 at 110MW), Act:0.5, Neu:1,
Grav:-2

Weaponry   Performance
   2 Jump (300std/pc fuel)
   0.6/1.7 Maneuver (/HEPlaR:1050MW,6.6 G-hours)
    0/0 Contra-grav
    n/a Atmosphere
    1 Power (/Fus:1100MW,0.1yr )
    0 Battery
    801.2 Fuel
    0/14/2/0/0 Accomodations
    80 Life Sup. (/Ty:St,Nm /'St)
    0 G-Comp
    0 ESA
    0 Sandcasters
    0 Damper Turrets
    0 Damper Screen
 5xEmpty Turret (3std ea.)  0 Meson Screen
    0 Force Field
    0 Gravtics
    0 [12] Armor, 18 Structure

Features
 10xAirlock

    1xShip's locker (1.5std ea.)


 1xOrdinary Galley (Cap:15)


Small Craft
 2xMinHgr (100std, 0 hatches)




Backups
 Drives:
 Screens:
 Communications: 1xRadio (50,000km). 1xLaser (50,000km).
 Sensors:
 Survey/Science:
 ECM:
 Power & Fuel:

Crew Details
 2xMnvr. 12xEngr. 2xMain. 2xCmnd.


The James Clement Class bulk carrier is a very old design, dating back to
the early years of the Terran Confederation.  It's predecessor, the 'Ben
Allen' Class, actually predates the Terran Confederation (it was built in
small numbers by the Commonwealth of Australasia from 2132 AD).

As the economy of the Terran Confederation became increasingly reliant on
interstellar trade, the 'James Clement' was designed as a low-cost workhorse
transport that could be quickly built in large numbers.  Using
'off-the-shelf' components and a compartmented, modular design, the
'..Clement' could be assembled in separate sections, prior to final orbital
assembly.

The primitive nature of the '..Clement' is highlighted by it's lack of
gravitic technology.  At the time of the classes' conception, gravitic
technology had been newly acquired from captured Vilani vessels, and was
only availablwe in the newest military vessels.  Artificial gravity is
instead supplied in the bridge, engineering and accomodation spaces by using
an interior 'spin hull'.

Despite it's age, the class is still found within the Solomani Rim sector
and adjoining space in the early years of the Third Imperium.  It still
produced on a number of worlds (primarily within the Easter Concord and
Dingir League), as a low cost private bulk cargo carrier.

The Vegan Polity produces a variant of this freighter, known as the
'Sastyuir Hsaar'.  The primary modification is the removal of the spin hull
mechanism, and it's replacement with gravitic compensators.

>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 23:02:32 -0700
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
Subject: Pictures of Strephon

Hi,

Does anyone know of any pictures of Strephon and where I can get them?
I have one that's on an "Imperial 10 Credit note" that was a promo item
from GDW, but it's not really usable for a web page.

Thanks,
Kristian

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 03:28:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Macpherson <john35@wharton.upenn.edu>
Subject: Re: Letter of Marque

"Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net> wrote:
> >         Forgive me, I've been hiding in TNE-RCES, what's Letter of Marque?
> 
> A *NEW* Traveller supplement writtien by Andrew Keith.  It deals with piracy, 
> privateering, & the like in and around the Carrillian Assembly in Reavers' 
> Deep.  It was just printed up a couple weeks ago, with a limited run.

	Where can I find out more?  Is it still available in some form?  
What setting does it cover and is it intended for a particular rules system?

- -JM

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 20:15:49 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

Date sent:      	Tue, 14 Jul 1998 09:54:34 -0400
Subject:        	Old Gaming Systems
To:             	traveller@MPGN.COM
From:           	Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Send reply to:  	traveller@MPGN.COM

> >Quite scary is it not.  Help, help.  Runaway, runaway.  There be newbies
> >here who say they are old gamers.

> >Next thing you will tell us, is that you have never heard of Judge's
> >Guild...

> Well, I've been gaming since before Traveller came out, and _I'd_ never
> heard of Living Steel.  

> As a matter of interest, how many other people (besides me) played
> Traveller when it was first released?

I bought my first copy of the LBB (the original version before they discovered 
metrics) in 1978 (I was still at high school just). back then photocopiers were a 
relative rarity were I was and I had to copy the subsector grid by hand on to 
tracing paper. My Greater Magellanic Cloud setting has its origins back then. 
That lasted awhile and then in 1979 we discovered Runequest and instantly fell 
in love and Traveller languished for awhile. Strangely enough I didn't start 
playing D&D until 1981 and it just never really satisfied me after Traveller and 
RQ.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 20:15:49 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Next project...

From:           	"Andy Akins" <igor@ames.net>
To:             	"TML" <Traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject:        	Next project...
Date sent:      	Tue, 14 Jul 1998 15:12:15 -0500
Send reply to:  	traveller@MPGN.COM

> My FF&S2 ship spreadsheet is slowing down...most of the bugs have been
> fixed, and most of the features have been added. Which begs the
> question...what to do next?

> I'm currently working on a set of Java tools for Traveller, but in the
> meantime, are there any other spreadsheets that people would like to see?

A few spring to mind
1 - The small arms designs from FFSv2
2 - Vehicles design from FFSv2 (though I get by fine with Infini-V)
3 - A T4 (or even better T4.1) chargen, though I'm not sure you could do that in
    a spreadsheet.

My favourite would be 1, though I'd expect 2 would be received better by the 
general Traveller audiance.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 10:15:14 +0100
From: "Buston, John" <john.buston@eds.com>
Subject: Re: Making profits half full

>Finally, the thing that kills TL15 freighters is TL12 freighters are
>reasonably competitive with them, while TL15 military ships absolutely
>crap on TL12 military ships. Therefore TL12 worlds will build freighters,
>and export them to TL15 worlds, in exchange for much smaller numbers
>of TL15 warships.

Not quite. 

A TL15 freighter gives about a 20% better return on investment than a
TL12 one with the same design specs. Corps would kill for a trading
advantage of that size. Would you move to a bank offering 10% interest
when your current bank was offering 12% ?

The general point is that the TL12 freighter is just as suitable for the
role as the TL15 one, providing the price was right.

In the exchange you mention the TL15 Gov. has the TL12 Gov. over a
barrel. Not only will they demand, and get, at least a 15% discount on
the freighters, they can charge what they like for maintenance of the
TL15 ships as the TL12 Gov. wont be able to do it themselves. Also they
are quite likely to provide TL15 warships with TL14 capabilities, just
in case their neighbors started getting any funny ideas about borders.

The TL12 Gov. would effectively have passed control of its navy to the
TL15 Gov. This is not a strong position militarily or contractually for
them. The position is better if there are other nearby TL15 worlds to
trade with (not very likely).

This is effectively the basis of the 3I.

John

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 05:40:36 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Pictures of Strephon 

> Does anyone know of any pictures of Strephon and where I can get them?
> I have one that's on an "Imperial 10 Credit note" that was a promo item
> from GDW, but it's not really usable for a web page.

There's one inside of Hard Times, I think.  Or was it Survival Margin?

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 05:43:56 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Letter of Marque 

> 
> "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net> wrote:
> > >         Forgive me, I've been hiding in TNE-RCES, what's Letter of Marque?
> > 
> > A *NEW* Traveller supplement writtien by Andrew Keith.  It deals with piracy, 
> > privateering, & the like in and around the Carrillian Assembly in Reavers' 
> > Deep.  It was just printed up a couple weeks ago, with a limited run.
> 
> 	Where can I find out more?  Is it still available in some form?  
> What setting does it cover and is it intended for a particular rules system?

It's geared for CT, but useable (with suitable adaptations of course) for MT &
mebbe T4.  You might wanna ask Phil Sanders if he has any copies left; it was a
limited press run of 120, I think.

Keven
- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 18:55:43
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Fighters and Stuff

>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
>Subject: A TL 9 fighter?
>
>Reppu, Reppu class Fighter (FF&S v2)
>Designed by Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
>
>Statistics
> Tons: 75 Td (AF Wedge Hypersonic)

> Cost: 223.213 MCr

>
>Weaponry
> 1 x Missile Turret Can 3/3 (Mag: 0 MFD: 500,000km)
>       w/3 Cmd DL 1d6/3 [113] 6G/10 500,000km

> 3/3 Maneuver (Fusion: 0MW, 4.7 G-hours)

> 0 Power (Fission: 10MW, 0.25yr)
>
>Features
> 1 x Decontamination Airlock
> 1 x Ship's locker (0.04 Td ea.)
> 1 x Armory (0.07 Td ea.)
> 1 x Gym (2.5 Td ea.)
> 1 x Ordinary Galley (Cap: 2)
>
>Perhaps one of the most unusual Terran designs to come out of the
>Interstellar Wars period

I'll agree to that *grin*

>, the Reppu class fighter was designed in 2098 AD by
>the JSSDF for service aboard their four Hiryu class Carriers. The Reppus
>were intended to capitalise on the newly developed Advanced Nuclear Drives
>(reverse engineered from Vilani examples) which enabled much smaller missiles
>than had previously been possible. Consequently the designers were able to
>produce viable combat vessel using a hull of only 75 Td. 

I think an adjective (viz, 'marginally') is needed in there :)

OK. Rip the armoury, the gym and the galley (what ? no Zen Room ?), and put
in an energy weapon of some sort or a missile magazine. MCr 223 is an
awfully big price for a defenseless delivery system for three missiles. On
the other hand, military systems are bloody expensive at TL9, so the Reppu
might be as good as it gets.

>
>Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 15:20:51 +0000
>From: "Martin F C Pickett" <ceemfcp@cee.hw.ac.uk>
>Subject: Fighters & Carriers
>
>I have designed an "ordinary" light fighter - 10 tons, 200 MJ laser, 5G,
15 MCr 
>to you guv'nor.  I'm not so fond of it though, because while the laser has a 
>higher discharge energy, the range is less.  if you have to close to short
range 
>to fire your weapon, you can bet that any "ethically challenged civilian"
(nice 
>euphemism BTW) will be firing back with everything they've got.

This actually isnt a problem. If the ETC shoots at you, then you get to
call for support from the real warships. Just remember to issue red shirts
to the pilots ... and give them a medal afterwards for confirming the
bogey's identity as a pirate.

>                                                                          
>>>The Fanfare carries four 15 std light fighters (designed for the Waft
     
>>>                                                                         
>>>Displacement: 446 std
    
>>>Price: 770 MCr
    
>[much snippage]
>>*curious* whats it got in it to justify 770 MCr ... 4 15dton fighters could
>>be put on external grapples, with one internal bay for one to be worked
on.  
>
>Umm
>4 x 300 MJ laser, grouped as 2 batteries of 2 w. MFD's
>4 x twin missile launcher barbettes w. MFD's
>A big fusion plant.
>More of that drive masking & stealth stuff (suprise!)

If it's designed to escort merchants, then the stealth stuff isnt going to
be much use - the bad guys will just detect the merchants, and begin
evasive maneuvering anyway.

Apart from that, I'd say there just isnt MCr 950 worth of firepower in the
total package ... but then, I believe in firepower rather than stealth.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 12:15:26 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Traveller In Pyramid

Pyamid is currently running a 3-part Mileu 0 scenario (3 linked scenarios
actually), the first of which is in the current issue.

Other Traveller material should follow, since according to the ratings,
'Cold Night on Dashgad' got a fairly good reception.

MJD

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 07:29:38 -0400
From: John H Bogan Jr <jbogan@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: Pictures of Strephon 

At 05:40 AM 7/15/1998 -0400, you wrote:
>> Does anyone know of any pictures of Strephon and where I can get them?

>There's one inside of Hard Times, I think.  Or was it Survival Margin?

No, it's Arrival Vengeance.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 13:37:58 +0200
From: "V.A.G" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Traveller In Pyramid

MJ Dougherty wrote:
> 
> Pyamid is currently running a 3-part Mileu 0 scenario (3 linked scenarios
> actually), the first of which is in the current issue.
> 
> Other Traveller material should follow, since according to the ratings,
> 'Cold Night on Dashgad' got a fairly good reception.
> 
Problem is, this is the last issue of pyramid magazine in print. 
n the future, only the web-based pyramid, to which you have to subscribe
will exist!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 13:36:19 +0200
From: "V.A.G" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Pictures of Strephon

Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:
> 
> > Does anyone know of any pictures of Strephon and where I can get them?
> > I have one that's on an "Imperial 10 Credit note" that was a promo item
> > from GDW, but it's not really usable for a web page.
> 
> There's one inside of Hard Times, I think.  Or was it Survival Margin?
and another in traveller´ s Digest 9

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 23:41:24 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: FF&S Speadsheet version 2.6 now available

From:           	"Andy Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Date sent:      	Tue, 14 Jul 1998 15:12:14 -0500

> Some people have reported problems with the macros in Excel - something like
> "library not found" errors or such. I have no idea what this means...the
> macros work fine on my machine (and a few others I've tested on). I'm a
> Quattro Pro 8 user myself, so I'm afraid I don't know much about excel. If
> anyone out there knows what's causing this error, please let me know.

I've found what the problem is. The save design sub routine referrences an office 
97 library. It won't run under office 95. Hope that helps

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 04:54:36 PDT
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

I started playing the old S&T wargames, then the AH wargames, then 
played AD&D in college (so many all-nighters---but never a minute of 
study!).  That would be in the early 80s.  Started with the LBB in the 
early 80s, and have enjoyed it ever since...  Never got the later 
versions though.

My local FNUBS (FN Used Books Store) Guy told me that he had a whole box 
of old Traveller stuff.  He had the AD&D and other stuff on the shelf...  
They just recently moved, so he has it in a box somewhere, and doesn't 
know where!  I left him my business card and told him to call me when he 
finds it.  I have lots of AD&D stuff to trade him...
Greg Smith
The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 04:57:39 PDT
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller

Eris said:
>I hope we're all still going strong when we're retired and
>have the time to get together and play like we did when we were kids.
>

Ain't that the truth!  And with a life of hard knocks behind us to draw 
on!

Greg

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 07:14:52 -0500
From: "James Pearson" <jdpearson@wr.net>
Subject: Re: Trying to find a certain web site

Paul,

Try the following sites ... great maps & such:
http://www.magmacom.com/~ehenry/traveller/
http://www.etter.ch/~killer/killer/traveller/spinward/

I also highly recommend Galactician Software & Hexmap .. both are great
and include maps and world/sector write ups ....
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Hugh_Foster/trav.htm


> From: "Paul James" <paul@turing.tcp.co.uk>
> Subject: Trying to find a certain web site
> 
> I was browsing the web from work today and came across a web site with
> subsector maps for the entire traveller universe (well it seemed like it
> anyway. A couple of places it certainly had were the riftspan area &
> nicosia/aubaine area. As I am just starting a TNE campaign in the RC (and
> before pre-empt people suggesting another area or version of trav I've
> chosen this because its what I happen to own and seeing as its my first
> game I do like having some source material to start from). I would like to
> be able to print out old maps to give to the players (of course how much
> useful information they will get out of them other than star locations is
> debatable.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Paul


 -- James Pearson
"The purpose of a referee is to present obstacles 
for players to overcome as they go about seeking 
their goals, not to constantly make trouble for them.
This is a very subtle distinction ..."

The Traveller Book, p. 12

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/4089

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 08:31:48 EDT
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Norris' position

In a message dated 98-07-11 16:13:30 EDT, you write:

<< >Regarding Norris' non-intervention in the civil war, my take was that
 >Norris was loyal to the _Imperium_ and not any faction vying for power
 >(all of which were tainted one way or another, even the Strephon faction
 >had questions about whether it was really Strephon).
>>

Norris SAID he was loyal to the Imperium as a convenient feel-good public
statement. It allowed him to justify any action he took (as loyal to the
Imperium) without committing to a faction on a permanent basis. It was clear
the Imperium was gone (to anyone analyzing the situation) but his stand gave
him time to build defenses and resources.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 08:31:21 EDT
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller, Current Status

In a message dated 98-07-11 16:43:37 EDT, you write:

<< 
 1)  Any progress on a new licensee for Traveller?

Marc Miller is talking to several publishers about a new edition. No final
word yet.

 2)  Will the contiunation of GATEWAY to the STARs by Pierce Askegren be
 published?  I just the read it and want to see what happens.

I have no word yet that they will or won't do a second novel.

 3)  Where was the 'BONUS!  An all-new Traveller module by Marc Miller!'
 in the book?  I couldn't find it anywhere.

Last pages of the novel have a Traveller Lite character generation piece.

Marc Miller


 
  >>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 08:38:41 +0000
From: "Alan M. Nuss" <amnuss@earthlink.net>
Subject: LOM

Got mine yesterday.  So far it's looking good.

If mentions pirate havens.  There's a good one in the novel Galatic
Bounty by
William C. Dietz.

Alan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 01:07:05 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Fighters and Stuff

Date sent:      	Wed, 15 Jul 1998 18:55:43
From:           	Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>

> >From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
> >Subject: A TL 9 fighter?

> >Reppu, Reppu class Fighter (FF&S v2)
> >Designed by Andrew Moffatt-Vallance

> >Perhaps one of the most unusual Terran designs to come out of the
> >Interstellar Wars period

> I'll agree to that *grin*

I figured that as soon as the Terrans got viable space combat missiles 
somebody somewhere would have to have tried to build a space fighter :*>

> >than had previously been possible. Consequently the designers were able to
> >produce viable combat vessel using a hull of only 75 Td. 

> I think an adjective (viz, 'marginally') is needed in there :)

Well I did put in a disclaimer as to its actual effectiveness :*>

> OK. Rip the armoury, the gym and the galley (what ? no Zen Room ?), and put
> in an energy weapon of some sort or a missile magazine. MCr 223 is an
> awfully big price for a defenseless delivery system for three missiles. On
> the other hand, military systems are bloody expensive at TL9, so the Reppu
> might be as good as it gets.

Its got an endurance of 3 months and no artifical grav, so I think the gym and 
the galley need to stay; and well the armoury takes up virtually no space. At 
TL9 warships are basically large flying partical accelerators. No other weapon 
system will work (missiles will be too huge and lasers just don't have enough 
power to be useful for anything other than PD against the non-existant 
missiles). Even on the Reppu I had to cheat and use TL10 missiles.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #662
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Wednesday, July 15 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 663



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: FF&S Spreadsheet
Re: Traveller In Pyramid
Re: A TL 9 fighter?
Infini-V on PC (was: Next project...)
UWP Dissector script unleashed
Crime and punishment
Re: Fighters
MT Character Generator
Re: PC Software: testers needed
Re: Fighters
Re: Starting Traveller
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Re: Traveller In Pyramid
Re: Old Gaming SYStems
Re: Crime and punishment
Re: T'anks for the memories
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Re: Starting Traveller
Re: Crime and punishment
Re: My Modified Task System
re: Pictures of Strephon
Re: Next project...
[T98#662] Traveller, Current Status
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Re: Starting Traveller
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Re: My Modified Task System

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:01:32 -0500
From: "Andy Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: Re: FF&S Spreadsheet

"A. O'Mary" <omary@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>I've had some problems with Excel recognizing macros from other
>spreadsheets, especially Lotus. It seems that Excel uses Visual
>Basic as a macro language, and will translate only very basic
>macros from other spreadsheets. Hope this helps.
>ALO

Actually, I didn't translate the PerfectScript macros to VBA...Simon Early
wrote the VBA stuff for Excel only...and I stole some of it for the later
macros. So it shouldn't be a translation problem, unless there is a macro
problem between Excel 97 and Excel 5.0 (it's written in Excel '97, but I
save it as Excel 5.0 for compatability sake).

The Excel version actually has more bells and whistles compared to the
Quattro version, due to Simon's code. The QP version only has a simple TL
set macro (although it has a _way_ cool button...whoo hooo! :) )

+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                       |
| Home: igor@ames.net - http://www.ames.net/igor/                    |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/                    |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU: tc++(**) ru+ ge 3i+ jt- au+ ls+ kk+ hi+ as+ va+ dr+ so+ zh+  |
|       vi+ da+                                                      |
| Geek: GCS d- s+:+ a- C++ W++ w+++(-)$ PS+ PE t- 5++ X+ R+++ tv+    |
|       b+++ DI+ D-- G e+ h---- r+++ y++++                           |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 16:08:34 +0200
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Traveller In Pyramid

>Problem is, this is the last issue of pyramid magazine in print.
>n the future, only the web-based pyramid, to which you have to subscribe
>will exist!

Why is this a problem? Most ;-) TMLers have access to the Internet right,
and the old Pyramid wasn't free either.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:18:03 -0400
From: "chauncey smith" <Csmith@icdc.com>
Subject: Re: A TL 9 fighter?

At any Tech Level the role of the figther is to extend the range of weapons
systems on the main platform, and previde extended sensor ranges. At the
lower tech levels some time diverant tech is used like fusion rockets which
doesn't take power from weapon systems and creates enough not only for trust
but for alot of ships systems... then you can add a generator or batteries
for laser... or why not just mount some missles to it. The smaller size will
make them harder to hit and mini missles fitted to the fighters... that
where x-ray pump laser.




> The minimum size of fusion plants restricted fighters to TL12 anyway ...
> assuming they are militarily useful, which they arent (they are great
> auxiliaries, and for beating up on ethically challenged civilians, but
> militarily they are useless. A fighter just cant mount big enough weapons
> to hurt ships of the line).

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 11:13:04 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Infini-V on PC (was: Next project...)

>VDS and Rob Prior's Infinity-V are nice but being a PC user I kind of feel
>cheated. :-)

Well, if you can regress to being a DOS user you might be in luck...

I've finally got the department's laptop repaired and CodeWarrior
installed.  As my first project I figure I'll convert Infini-V, as I
already have the difficult code done and would just need to learn the PC
interface. The easiest solution seems to be doing it as a SIOUX
application, which is essentially a DOS terminal interface inside a
minimal Windows window, which only has the Save (as text), Print, and Exit
commands.

The other option involves learning C, which I should do anyway but is a
lot slower, especially as I'm trying to learn Java too.

I'm going to be out of touch for a few weeks, so if you desperately need
to reach me email Dom Mooney, who has kindly offered to field questions
and act as my interface with the TML until I return.


So long, and I'll say hello to the dolphins for you.

------------------------------

Date: 15 Jul 1998 11:02 EDT
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: UWP Dissector script unleashed

Howdy all,

I've unleashed a simple UWP dissector to the world.  It's a 
JavaScript program that takes a UWP and describes it.

The link to it is:

metronet.com/~washi/Tas/Online/UWP.html

Other fine Traveller-related JavaScript programs can be found
there, too:

metronet.com/~washi/Tas/Online

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 17:31:57 +0200
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Crime and punishment

I've written a short system for handling law, crime and punishment on
different planets in Traveller. The system handles such questions as "Is
this legal on this planet and if not - whats the punishment", it also
handles court procedure in an abstract way. I've recently translated it
into (bad) english but anybody that still want it can drop me a line and
I'll send it as a RTF file.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 10:49:06 -0500
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Fighters

Ed Jenkins <DustyLV769@aol.com> wrote:

>      One additional rule I use, which is neither specifically stated or denied
> by HG is that ships operating at the same range to each other may combine
> thier defensive fire;  that is a cruiser and a destroyer may use thier lasers
> or casters against incoming fire aimed at a battleship, as long as all three
> ships are at the same range.  This makes smaller ships like destroyers and
> escorts much more useful in the screening role, just as DDG's and CG's today
> are used to screen the CV's.

This actually can be done in _Battle Rider_.  Missile flights can be attacked
by anyone on the board that has a lock.  The target of the missiles also gets
a last chance at defensive fire before detonation.

This makes some sense of the "close escort" concept.  Those _Gazelles_ could
be assigned to a particular major unit as a screen for that ship.  It'd be
interesting to game that out; the official storyline says the "close escort"
concept was a failure and that the escorts tended to be chewed up in combat.

  -- Steve Bonneville

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 12:03:18 -0400
From: "Svenson, Gregory (FL51)" <gsvenson@space.honeywell.com>
Subject: MT Character Generator

FYI, I have updated my Mega Traveller Character generator  with version 1.09
at my web site:

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/5776/traveller.html

I fixed a major bug in advanced belter character generation and added
generation of Hhkar, Vegan, Suerrat, Irhadre, Llamiya and Floriani
characters. 

Greg Svenson
gsvenson@space.honeywell.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 07:55:42 -0700
From: "Dave Strebe" <strebe@intergate.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: PC Software: testers needed

1)-DOS is OK I run win95.
2)-I would be more than happy to help
3)-sorry won't be much help here.

- ----------
> From: Rob Prior <Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: PC Software: testers needed
> Date: Tuesday, July 14, 1998 6:48 PM
> 
> If everything goes according to plan (ha!), I'll have a DEC laptop with
> CodeWarrior over the summer. I have to learn CodeWarrior enough to teach
> it this fall. The best way to do this is to write a program, and seeing
as
> I've had a lot of requests to convert Infini-V to the PC...
> 
> What I need from the list is three things.
> 
> 1) Would a console-style DOS program be acceptable?  I could do this
> fairly easily, and it would save me having to learn Windows programming
> without manuals.
> 
> 2) Whatever I do, I'll need testers...
> 
> 3) I may also need advice, so if anyone has experience with CodeWarrior
> (Mac or PC)...  (My baggage alowance won't stretch to the manuals, so
I'll
> have to rely on as much of the online documentation as fits on the PC's
> drive.)
> 
> 
> This account (rob_prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca) will by unavailable to me as of
> Wednesday night (the 15th).  In order to remain in some form of contact,
> I'm going to ask Dom Mooney (dom@cybergoths.u-net.com) to act as a
> gobetween. Dom will be handling distribution in any case. (My father only
> has 5 hours online a month, so I won't have time to keep up with the TML
> until I return.)
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 13:42:25 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fighters

In a message dated 7/15/98 9:24:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
bonnevil@ima.umn.edu writes:

<< It'd be
 interesting to game that out; the official storyline says the "close escort"
 concept was a failure and that the escorts tended to be chewed up in combat.
  >>

I have gamed that out a few times...the escorts tend to get locked up w/ the
attacking fighters and destroyers...they kinda fight a mini-battle of thier
own while the BBs slug it out.  A single broadside from a ship much bigger
than a 5000dt escort will for the most part cripple a close escort, but while
it's doing the escort it can't bother the BB, which can in turn do the same
thing to it that it was doing to the close escort!

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 14:07:39 -0400
From: warmind@juno.com (james a clem)
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller

On Tue, 14 Jul 1998 18:52:59 -0500 "Joseph R. Dietrich"
<yikes@evansville.net> writes:
>>Rob Prior asked:  "As a matter of interest, how many other people
>>(besides me) played Traveller when it was first released?"
>
>I bought the Hardbound Edition of the Traveller rules about '80-'81 or 
>so,
>but never got to buy anything else or play much. :-( I lived way out 
>in the
>country, and was a poor freshman in HS at the time. I wasn't able to 
>really
>join the fun until MegaTraveller came out.
>
>Man. And I thought *I* was old for a gamer.
>


Hey, I've gotcha on this one!!!   I bought the first boxed edition of the
LBBs back in about '77 (or so, my memory is getting poor lately.....) 
Sophomore in HS at the time.  Been playing off and on since.


Jim A. Clem, B.S.E.
CEO and Founder, Diasporan Industries, Inc.
www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081/
Traveller Geek Code tc+ tm !tn tt t4+ ru+() ge++ !3i jt au (+) st ls(+)
pi+ he++ merc++ dt+++
GM:  The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 11:27:49 -0700
From: James Brewer <jwbrewer@ucsd.edu>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

I started playing Traveller in the fall of 1979.  I didn't start running
games until the early eighties.  Living Steel was put out by Leading Edge
Games, the same company that produced Phoenix command.  You couldn't beat
Phoenix command for realism if you didn't mind taking an afternoon to do a
half hour fire fight.  They had supplements for everything from the wild
west era to ultramodern equipment.  My gaming group found the mechanized
and light armor supplements very useful for Twilight 2000.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 13:28:21 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Traveller In Pyramid

On 07/15/98 at 12:15 PM,  MJ Dougherty <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk> said:

>Pyamid is currently running a 3-part Mileu 0 scenario (3 linked
>scenarios actually), the first of which is in the current issue.

That's great! 

>Other Traveller material should follow, since according to the
>ratings, 'Cold Night on Dashgad' got a fairly good reception.

I certainly gave it a high rating.  Good job!

From what I've seen, both the GURPS Traveller book and Behind the Claw are
coming along really well, too.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 19:32:36 +0100
From: Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming SYStems

Eris wrote :

>>Gee, and I really LIKE Aftermath...
>
>And so you should!  ;->
>
>Aftermath was (and still is) a neat system.  The combat system wasn't
>nearly as hard as it *looked*, but it is more complicated than I'd want
>to use today.  From what I hear, Phoenix Command would have swamped me
>even in my rules heavy days.  ;-> It could use a more modern task
>system...hum...maybe a graft from TNE would fit.
>

Well I got my LBBs in 1998, well the set in the Little Black Box.  But
my first set of Starter Traveller (The Big Black Books But Only Two) I
got in 1983.  I was so disappointed that I could not find the LBB in 
1983.  The Alien modules got rid of that disappointment as they were the
same size as the BBBBOT.  The main thing I lacked was the Spinward Marches
Map in colour, I found a copy of that floating around the local game store
about 1995 or so.  

Traveller is my favourite game, especially because in both a previous
game of Runequest a character got trampled by a tusker - on a limb no but
on a chest yes.  The previous game of ADD ended with the Orcs throwing 
a barbeque in honour of their slaughtered enemies :-).

My first Traveller character was 67 year of age IIRC and was a Merchants
and Merchandise smuggler...  Prison Planet was a lot of fun.

So favourite 7 or so games today

Traveller
ADD
Chivalry and Sorcery 2nd Edition
Twilight 2000 (RDF Sourcebook and no Poland) Halted playing this during
Desert Storm :-(
Role/Spacemaster
Bushido/Aftermath
Star Trek

Dom
- ---

mailto:dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com  or  mailto:dominicr@bigfoot.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 12:37:02 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Crime and punishment

I'd be interested in this document, if you please.

Anders Backman wrote:

> I've written a short system for handling law, crime and punishment on
> different planets in Traveller. The system handles such questions as "Is
> this legal on this planet and if not - whats the punishment", it also
> handles court procedure in an abstract way. I've recently translated it
> into (bad) english but anybody that still want it can drop me a line and
> I'll send it as a RTF file.
>

Thanks!
Erwin Fritz

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 11:16:05 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: T'anks for the memories

GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:

> Another reason we didn't do it: Bode's _Tongball_ comic strips. We could never
> have published _ANY_ illos even remotely resembling spherical tanks in the
> '70s without being laughed out of the game shop...or the head shop.

Oh...man I think I gotta dig some of my old Juggernaut comix out of
storage and start cracking with FFS2...

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 16:20:09 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

You are correct. It was printed by FGU. It was designed by a M.D. of all
people.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 17:30:16 EDT
From: Gr1zzly1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller

i started playing traveller in 84 then stopped sometime around 88 we played
with classic traveller only. 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 17:30:22 EDT
From: Gr1zzly1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Crime and punishment

In a message dated 98-07-15 12:25:54 EDT, you write:

> anders.backman@aniware.se
i would love a copy figureing out punishments is a pain in my a$$.

Vlad
v1ad1m1r@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 23:15:19 +0100
From: Andy Gibson <Andy@yarm.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: My Modified Task System

Robert Eaglestone <eaglesto@nortel.ca> writes:
>Our group usually ignores the half-dice: IMTU, task difficulties
>increase by d6:
>
<snip>

FWIW I use a modified MT task system like this:

  Task difficulty  Target no.

   Simple/Easy          5+
   Average/Routine      8+
   Difficult           11+
   Formidable          14+
   Staggering          17+
   Impossible          20+

Stats give +1 per THREE full points of stat.  JoT allows extra rerolls
with no difficulty increase.  Time factor is (3 + 2d6 - DMs)*10% of
average time for the task.  Uncertain tasks are done T4 style - i.e.
player rolls one die, I roll the other.  Seems to work OK so far...

Cheers,

Andy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 21:23:36 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Pictures of Strephon

Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com> wrote:

>Does anyone know of any pictures of Strephon and where I can get them?
>I have one that's on an "Imperial 10 Credit note" that was a promo item
>from GDW, but it's not really usable for a web page.

Try the MT supplement Arrival Vengeance or TNE's Survival Margin.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 21:12:44 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Next project...

 "Brian A. Howard" <bruadh@earthlink.net> wrote:


>VDS and Rob Prior's Infinity-V are nice but being a PC user I kind of feel
>cheated. :-)

Rob is planning to port the software over the summer break.

Dom

(In the background the voices whisper 'convert', 'convert', 'resist the
dark side'...)

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 22:20:47 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: [T98#662] Traveller, Current Status

On Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:07:50 -0400, CardSharks@aol.com (Marc
Miller - yes, _that_ Marc Miller) wrote:

>In a message dated 98-07-11 16:43:37 EDT, you write:

><<
> 1)  Any progress on a new licensee for Traveller?

>Marc Miller is talking to several publishers about a new edition. No final
>word yet.

>Marc Miller

Marc, does Mr Miller always write about himself in the third
person like this? :)

- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:03:59 -0600
From: chet-el@juno.com (Chester L Cox)
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

In a message dated 7/14/98 15:23:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu writes:

<< No, this was *way* before FASA's ST game.  It was...Starships and
 Spacemen, or something like that.  Maybe it was by FGU?  One of the
 first things they did?  It might not have been as bad as I remember, but
 my memory says that it was BAD. >>

Heritage did a Star Trek "fake role playing" (really a miniatures game)
for their miniatures, and that was the first Trek game I remember seeing.
 Gamescience (Lou Zocchi) had a game called Star Patrol (?) which, years
later, was expanded into something decent and rename Space Patrol (I may
have the names mixed up).  It was very, very heavily Trek-oriented.

Starships & Spacement was an early FGU game, predating Space Opera (which
was like Traveller with every single supplement ever imagined and C&S's
character generation, all put into microscopic print....wonderful
supplement for Traveller, but difficult to read).  

Do any of these ring any bells for yuh?

*jeep!
- --Chet

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 18:55:04 -0400
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller

- -----Original Message-----
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Tuesday, July 14, 1998 9:49 PM
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller


>On 07/14/98 at 06:52 PM,  "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net> said:
>
>>I bought the Hardbound Edition of the Traveller rules about '80-'81
>>or so, but never got to buy anything else or play much. :-( I lived
>>way out in the country, and was a poor freshman in HS at the time. I
>>wasn't able to really join the fun until MegaTraveller came out.
>
>>Man. And I thought *I* was old for a gamer.
>
>Oh, man!  Heck no!  You're just a youngster compared to us *real*
>oldtimers.  I was *teaching* junior high when Traveller came out in '77.
>Of course, age isn't a factor with Traveller, it's all in how you play
>the game.  I hope we're all still going strong when we're retired and
>have the time to get together and play like we did when we were kids.
>
>
>Eris,
>    probably one of the oldest geezers here!
>

Uh, I was born in Oct 51' and had been in the Army 8 years when Traveller
came out in 77'.  Of those 8 years I was on my third Overseas assignment
(5.5 of 8 years).  I think I had physically travelled around the world three
times by then.

Thom (mind of a 12 year old) Harris

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 14:56:10 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

In mail you write:

> As a matter of interest, how many other people (besides me) played
> Traveller when it was first released?

Me. 

But how many of us played D&D when *it* first came out?

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 15:05:47 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

In mail you write:

> Does anyone remember Starfarers Guide series that Phoenix Games put out?
> I remember writing a program for my TI calculator based on the system
> generation in it and building a complete sector of systems.  That's in a
> box somewhere around here too. ;->

Remember them? Hell I still *have* them!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 14:58:12 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

In mail you write:

> I'm a *real* oldtimer.  I got started with the original AH wargames in
> the mid-60's, created my own squad level wargame that including
> roleplaying like features so several players could interact during play.
> Was delighted when I found the original white box D&D, because it broke

"White box" is *not* "original". The *original* was a sort of "wood
grain" print. The white box came later. (Which shows you how long *I*
was involved with this. :-)

BTW, speaking of *old* wargames, remember the instructions for the
"nuclear war" scenario in Tactics II? :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 21:18:55 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: My Modified Task System

Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu> wrote:

>That's the task system I strongly recommend for T4 and the eventual
>T4.1, unless we reverted to TNE's 1d20.  I actually have found a couple
>of uses for 1d3's (the half die), but *really* don't want it in the Task
>system. Except I call Average, Routine, and Impossible I call Hopeless.

Hey Eris,

As the fighter thread is restarting, perhaps we could email Ken Bearden and
restart the task thread?

Then we could put up a screen of fighters to stop the pirates breaking
through thanks to task rolls that make near-c rocks too easy to create...

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #663
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Thursday, July 16 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 664



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: PC Software: testers needed
Re: Letter of Marque
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Re: Traveller, current status
Revenge of the Son of Traveller Chat
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Re: Starting Traveller
Re: My Modified Task System
Re: Old Gaming Systems
RE: Old Gaming Systems
Re: Azhanti High Lightning
Re: Tankers
Re: Norris' position
Non-IN fleets
Re: Revenge of the Son of Traveller Chat
Re: Revenge of the Son of Traveller Chat
Re: Crime and punishment
Re: Revenge of the Son of Traveller Chat 
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Traveller In Pyramid
Been Playin' Since

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 15:30:37 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: PC Software: testers needed

In mail you write:

> If everything goes according to plan (ha!), I'll have a DEC laptop with
> CodeWarrior over the summer. I have to learn CodeWarrior enough to teach
> it this fall. The best way to do this is to write a program, and seeing as
> I've had a lot of requests to convert Infini-V to the PC...
>
> What I need from the list is three things.
>
> 1) Would a console-style DOS program be acceptable?  I could do this
> fairly easily, and it would save me having to learn Windows programming
> without manuals.

I'd prefer DOS only until I get OS/2 going on all my systems. :-)

> 2) Whatever I do, I'll need testers...

I may be able to do this.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 15:12:46 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Letter of Marque

In mail you write:

> Andy Akins <igor@ames.net> writes:
>
>> Cool book...and GREAT insert. What software was used to make the deck 
> plans?
>
> Andy, I did the subsector map and all of the deckplans using
> CorelDRAW! 8.0.  It's my first choice whenever vector graphics
> are required.

Hmmm. Corel can export to CGM, right?

The reason I'm interested is that there's a tool to convert CGM to RIP,
and RIP is usable on BBSes and on the web (there's a RIP add-on for
Netscape, and maybe for IE). 

RIP uses 7-bit "text" strings to send vector type graphics (including
Bezier curves) as well as having sound capability. So it's *really*
fast compared with bit-mapped images.

Check out the web site: www.telegrafix.com.

This could be a nice thing to use both on the CDs and on Traveller web
pages. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 19:25:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rob Dean <robdean@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) writes:

> But how many of us played D&D when *it* first came out?

You've got me beat on that one.  I got D&D in March 1976 (for my birthday),
and it was a fourth printing in a white box.  I was around in time to get 
Eldritch Wizardy when it hit the stands, about the same time as The Dragon
#1, which I also got...

ObTrav: In this discussion someone else mentioned Starter Traveller, in
the two big booklets.  I snagged a copy of that from a dusty game store
in 1990, and it has been my favorite Classic Traveller edition for
carting around.  It's almost always tucked discreetly in a folder in
my briefcase, along with a spare copy of Citizens of the Imperium and
a few black dice with red spots, just in case I need a diversion at the
office at lunch, or on the road.  The folder gets moved to my backpack
for "fun" expeditions.

Rob Dean
robdean@access.digex.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 16:41:01 -0700
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

>But how many of us played D&D when *it* first came out?


You mean that add-on to Chainmail?  ;)

douglas

E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller
IMTU tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls 
The early bird gets the worm, BUT
   the second mouse gets the cheese!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 03:08:30 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Traveller, current status

Jeff Zeitlin writes:

>On Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:07:50 -0400, CardSharks@aol.com (Marc
>Miller - yes, _that_ Marc Miller) wrote:
> 
>>Marc Miller is talking to several publishers about a new edition. No final
>>word yet.
> 
>>Marc Miller
> 
>Marc, does Mr Miller always write about himself in the third
>person like this? :)

Hey, if it was good enough for Caesar...



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "Kettelman bristled. Nothing got him angrier than when
         people implied that he was paranoid. It made him feel
         persecuted."
                                --Robert Sheckley

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 18:26:44 -7
From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
Subject: Revenge of the Son of Traveller Chat

Hmm...

It seems Zhodani Terrorists have kidnapped Suzette Dollar and are 
currently holding her captive on the planet Zort.  Ransom has been 
set at $4.37 and a First Edition, First Printing LBB Box Set.

The $4.37 was found under couch cushions quite readily, but her 
husband is apparently balking at parting with the Boxed Set.  :-)

Therefore, we announce the reappearance of a newer, wilder, 
Traveller Chat, with an actual topic, and everything...

OK, maybe so, anyways.

This Week's Topic:

Renegade Anarcho-Syndicalist Nuns in Thong Vacc Suits

OK, don't like that one?  :-)

Let's try a real one then:

Stupid GM/Player Tricks.

A 2-3 hour purgative exercise on the silliest, dumbest, or nastiest 
things ever perpetrated on a GM or player by their opposite number.

6 PM PDT, 9 PM EDT, #traveller on Undernet.

Be there, aloha.

Stu

Stuart L. Dollar                sdollar@goodnet.com
- ---------------------------------------------------
Published Game Designer, Frustrated Novelist
"Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God."
- -Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 17:29:48 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

In mail you write:

> In a message dated 7/14/98 15:23:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu writes:
>
> << No, this was *way* before FASA's ST game.  It was...Starships and
>  Spacemen, or something like that.  Maybe it was by FGU?  One of the
>  first things they did?  It might not have been as bad as I remember, but
>  my memory says that it was BAD. >>
>
> Heritage did a Star Trek "fake role playing" (really a miniatures game)
> for their miniatures, and that was the first Trek game I remember seeing.
>  Gamescience (Lou Zocchi) had a game called Star Patrol (?) which, years
> later, was expanded into something decent and rename Space Patrol (I may
> have the names mixed up).  It was very, very heavily Trek-oriented.

Actually, he had a Star Trek game (you played it with "ship counters"
that were 4" squares on a *large* area of floor!). It wasn't authorized
and he had to change the name of the game, races, and many weapons
rather quickly. I have a Xerox of the old rules around here somewhere.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 20:29:40 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

On 07/15/98 at 02:58 PM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:

>> I'm a *real* oldtimer.  I got started with the original AH wargames in
>> the mid-60's, created my own squad level wargame that including
>> roleplaying like features so several players could interact during play.
>> Was delighted when I found the original white box D&D, because it broke

>"White box" is *not* "original". The *original* was a sort of "wood
>grain" print. The white box came later. (Which shows you how long *I*
>was involved with this. :-)

Really?  My copy is from early '74, and was the first copy in the game
store I'd been frequenting for years to buy AH and SPI wargames.  So, it
might not have been the first print run, but it was the print run that
made it to Pensacola.  ;->

>BTW, speaking of *old* wargames, remember the instructions for the
>"nuclear war" scenario in Tactics II? :-)

Sure, do.  ;-> I've still got most of those old AH wargames stored away,
too.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 19:32:17 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller

On 07/15/98 at 06:55 PM,  Thom Harris <thomharr@mediaone.net> said:

>>Eris,
>>    probably one of the oldest geezers here!


>Uh, I was born in Oct 51' and had been in the Army 8 years when
>Traveller came out in 77'.  

I've got you beat by 3 months. ;->

>Thom (mind of a 12 year old) Harris

Same here!

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 20:34:54 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: My Modified Task System

On 07/15/98 at 09:18 PM,  SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> said:

>Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu> wrote:

>>That's the task system I strongly recommend for T4 and the eventual
>>T4.1, unless we reverted to TNE's 1d20.  I actually have found a couple
>>of uses for 1d3's (the half die), but *really* don't want it in the Task
>>system. Except I call Average, Routine, and Impossible I call Hopeless.

>Hey Eris,

>As the fighter thread is restarting, perhaps we could email Ken
>Bearden and restart the task thread?

I'll let you and Ken do that. ;->  

>Then we could put up a screen of fighters to stop the pirates
>breaking through thanks to task rolls that make near-c rocks too easy
>to create...

Those are *Virus* infected near-c rocks, if you please! ;->


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 21:02:10 -0500
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@fastlane.net>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

At 02:56 PM 7/15/1998 -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>But how many of us played D&D when *it* first came out?
>
It was the first RPG I played, and I played for years.  I eventually sold
all of my D&D stuff except for my copy of Dieties & Demigods with the
Melnibonean and Cthulu mythos in it.

Jimmy Simpson
	nimrodd@fastlane.net
"Cannot say.
 Saying, I would know.
 Do not know.
 So cannot say."
		-Zathras (Babylon 5)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 22:38:50 -0500
From: Charlie Moore <brrecluse@ibm.net>
Subject: RE: Old Gaming Systems

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDB042.633FD620
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Well boys I remember  playing the original D&D (Dinosaurs & Droppings) =
carved on those three stone tablets. Yep me and Org had to chisel our =
own dice out of basalt.......... NO REALLY.    =20

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 05:15:48 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Azhanti High Lightning

Bruce Alan Macintosh writes:

>The problem with heavy fighters like yours or the classic Imperial Heavy
>Fighter is that those Mod/9 computers are dammned expensive; fighters with
>big computers are much less cost-effective than ~1000 ton light battle
>riders, who end up with one computer for ten turrets of firepower rather
>than ten computers for the same firepower, 

That's true enough. Ten 55 T fighters (TL 15) with Mod/9 computers costs
three times as much as an equivalent 1000 T SDB. But a single such fighter
can defeat any number of light fighters (+8 to hit, -8 to be hit), so
between us it seems that we've just eliminated fighters altogether.

>and are only one point easier to hit if you make them 999 tons.)

If you are playing rules lawyer like that, then you'd also have to knock off
one hardpoint for a 999 T design. 


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 05:22:15 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Tankers

William F. Hostman writes:

>>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
>>
>>William F. Hostman writes:

>>>Both use 1000Td fuel shuttles.
>>
>>How many? How long does it take a tanker to refuel?
>>
> 
>5 each.

It must take a hell of a long time for the 400,000 T tanker to refuel.
 
>In traveller terms, since Ron's (a contraction of squadRON) are ships of a
>single mission type,

I thought a squadron was a number of similar ships PLUS their escorts
grouped together for administrative purposes.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 23:17:01 -0400
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: Norris' position

At 08:30 AM 7/15/98 -0500, Marc wrote:
<Snip>
>Norris SAID he was loyal to the Imperium as a convenient feel-good public
>statement. It allowed him to justify any action he took (as loyal to the
>Imperium) without committing to a faction on a permanent basis. It was clear
>the Imperium was gone (to anyone analyzing the situation) but his stand gave
>him time to build defenses and resources.
>

Ahhh - pfui!  Now I'm disillusioned.  Are you sure this isn't just Lucanite
(or other) propaganda?




Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 05:42:55 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Non-IN fleets

Christian Gotschi writes:

>I would like to know what the total number of ships flying about in
>space are.

You're not alone! ;-)
 
>If anyone you like to take this up here are a few questions:
>What is the total number of ships and the breakdown in terms of size (or
>tons)?

If you're talking about the OTU the answer is: We don't know. The information
provided is too meager to figure it out without making some assumptions. I
once tried to figure out something based on a merchant fleet worth twice the
amount of the military fleet. I also tried working something out based on
the information _The Traveller Adventure_ gives about the merchant fleet in
Aramis Subsector. The two figures differed almost exactly by a factor 1000. 

>A breakdown of these ships in terms of affiliations 
>	(Navy/Scout/megacorp/minorcorp/private/noble/planetary militia/...)

Well, the Navy we've discussed pretty thoroughly in the last couple of
weeks. The Scouts I haven't done any work on, but I guess something could
be worked out based on the number of bases. Merchant traffic depends, as
I said, on your assumptions Private/noble: Work out how many people per
million (or 10 millions) you think can afford a yacht (hint: average per
capita income is Cr10,000-30,000 depending on what rules you use) and
then divide the total population by that. Planetary militia would be
part of the planetary defenses forces which some calculations indicate
would be equal to 2% of GWP. 
 
>As an example just take a subsector from the rim and one from the core.
 
I'll see if I can dig up my analysis of the trade fleet in Aramis.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 23:45:40 -0400
From: "chauncey smith" <Csmith@icdc.com>
Subject: Re: Revenge of the Son of Traveller Chat

kewl.. just what I've been looking for..  a traveller chat room.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Stuart L. Dollar <sdollar@goodnet.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Wednesday, July 15, 1998 9:40 PM
Subject: Revenge of the Son of Traveller Chat


Hmm...

It seems Zhodani Terrorists have kidnapped Suzette Dollar and are 
currently holding her captive on the planet Zort.  Ransom has been 
set at $4.37 and a First Edition, First Printing LBB Box Set.

The $4.37 was found under couch cushions quite readily, but her 
husband is apparently balking at parting with the Boxed Set.  :-)

Therefore, we announce the reappearance of a newer, wilder, 
Traveller Chat, with an actual topic, and everything...

OK, maybe so, anyways.

This Week's Topic:

Renegade Anarcho-Syndicalist Nuns in Thong Vacc Suits

OK, don't like that one?  :-)

Let's try a real one then:

Stupid GM/Player Tricks.

A 2-3 hour purgative exercise on the silliest, dumbest, or nastiest 
things ever perpetrated on a GM or player by their opposite number.

6 PM PDT, 9 PM EDT, #traveller on Undernet.

Be there, aloha.

Stu

Stuart L. Dollar                sdollar@goodnet.com
- ---------------------------------------------------
Published Game Designer, Frustrated Novelist
"Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God."
- -Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 16:35:59 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Revenge of the Son of Traveller Chat

From:           	"Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
Date sent:      	Wed, 15 Jul 1998 18:26:44 -7

> Hmm...

[snip]

> Therefore, we announce the reappearance of a newer, wilder, 
> Traveller Chat, with an actual topic, and everything...

> OK, maybe so, anyways.

> This Week's Topic:

> Renegade Anarcho-Syndicalist Nuns in Thong Vacc Suits

> OK, don't like that one?  :-)

Well I like it, can we please have that one next week?

> 6 PM PDT, 9 PM EDT, #traveller on Undernet.

Can someone please translate this into GMT (or evenbetter NZST) for the 
timezone impaired (ie me).

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 23:46:22 -0500
From: Alex Ingram <ingram@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Crime and punishment

> > I've written a short system for handling law, crime and punishment on
> > different planets in Traveller. The system handles such questions as "Is
> > this legal on this planet and if not - whats the punishment", it also
> > handles court procedure in an abstract way. I've recently translated it
> > into (bad) english but anybody that still want it can drop me a line and
> > I'll send it as a RTF file.
> >
>

Please send me a copy as I have developed a legal system too! Thanks.

Alex Ingram

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 00:47:37 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Revenge of the Son of Traveller Chat 

> kewl.. just what I've been looking for..  a traveller chat room.

Woulda been nice to have a day or so advanced warning on it...

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 01:02:15 EDT
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)

>Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems
>
snip
>
>
>BTW, speaking of *old* wargames, remember the instructions for the
>"nuclear war" scenario in Tactics II? :-)

 This wouldn't be the one popularized in Murphy's Rules would it? The one that
involves lighter fluid?

 I started RPGs the same month that Steve Jackson's TFT:Wizard appeared from
Metagaming. Traveller took another year or so. Back then most of my buying was
determined by the reviews in Space Gamer...

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: 15 Jul 1998 00:00:00 +0000
From: lars@orplid.shnet.org (Lars Becker)
Subject: Traveller In Pyramid

Hi V.A.G,

In TRAVELLER-L <35AC9496.167EB0E7@uni-trier.de>, you wrote:

 > Problem is, this is the last issue of pyramid magazine in
 > print. n the future, only the web-based pyramid, to which you
 > have to subscribe will exist!

und ich dachte, pyramid sei bereits seit einigen monanten nur noch online
beziehbar. $15 im jahr, http://www.sjgames.com/pyramid/

- - Lars.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 02:06:01 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Been Playin' Since

On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, Rob Prior wrote:
> As a matter of interest, how many other people (besides me) played
> Traveller when it was first released?

I started playing Trav in Sept 1983. I was the first player in our group to
own a set of rules, when I got the following for Christmas: Deluxe
Traveller, The Traveller Book, and Spacemaster. Our GM got a set in January
of 1984, when I proudly rolled my next character out of the book, rather
than off his hand-copied tables. Reminds me, does any one know a Traveller
GM/Player by the name of Rick Singleton? Haven't seen that GM since he left
for U of Texas in 1990....

AS to gaming prior to Traveller: I started with AH's "Survival" and "1776",
in 1977, when my SHRINK (a PhD Psychologist) used it to both disarm my
restraint and to chaneel my agression into a useful mode. He also kept my
parents from forbidding me to play AD&D, when I started that in 1980...
about the time I started Jr High. I played a few (<7) half-hour sessions of
Star Frontiers (TSR) in sept 1983, then found the traveller group I stuck
with til may 1985.

Who knew I'd become a gaming junkie... I haven't gone more than 6 weeks
without some form of gaming since Basic Training (1987, Ft Dix, NJ, C-3-39
Inf)... and, discouting that, since 1983. Were it not for the dice being
locked away, I'd have had a group going DURING basic. Instead, I simply
wrote most of my own system during Basic... at least until they sent me
home... for being psychologically unfit: "Too Violent for the US Army".

Also, I haven't gone more than 9 weeks without GM'ing since may 1985... and
50% of all that was Traveller in one form or another, but less and less
since GDW went away.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #664
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Thursday, July 16 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 665



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Old Games
Re ST RPG's
Re Pyramid going On-Line
B5 Task SYstemn
Re: Revenge of the Son of Traveller Chat
Re: [design] TL-11 Bulk Carrier - revised
De Bello Termino (was Re: Traveller, current status)
Re: Revenge of the Son of Traveller Chat
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Re: Starting Traveller
Old Gamers and Peripatetic Moons
I'm a nice guy...
RE; been playing since
Re: RE; been playing since
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Re: Them Ol' Gaming Systems
Re: Them Ol' Gaming Systems
Re: Old Gaming SYStems
Re: Revenge of the Son of Traveller Chat
Re: Been Playin' Since
Re: I'm a nice guy...
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Re: Old Gamers and Peripatetic Moons

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 02:11:12 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Old Games

>I've got a copy of Space Opera laying around someplace, though I just have
>the
>two books & not the insert.  Never played it, but it looked *somewhat*
>interesting.  The thought of a fission-powered FTL ship kinda boggles the
>mind, methinks...

Not a bad system, but kind of stylized. Onnce you get used to it, it is a
wonderful (if ever so slightly rules heavy) system. Which, BTW, seems to be
back in print... I've seen softcover single volume editions of SO at Boscos
(WWW.Boscos.com)... havn't had the time nor money to get it and check it
out.

SO is a WONDUREFUL reference for traveller; I've even run traveller using
SO... Also, SO ties into FGU's Space Marines minis rules. I still prefer
Mega over all other rules I've tried for Trav... altho I do use the T4 base
book Psionics rules with MT now....

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 01:43:55 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re ST RPG's

>>   Went through Tunnels & Trolls (in
>> many ways better than D&D) and first edition of Runequest (I liked it to
>> read but never really made it work in play) and some sort of
>> semi-roleplaying Star Trek game (I've got it stored away and can't
>> remember who published it or if it came before or after Traveller...I
>> *do* remember it didn't play very well).
>
>Was that the FASA one?  It makes good source material for *writing* about ST,
>but as far as playing goes, it just didn't work out too good for me.

The "Star Trek RPG's" I know of:

Starships & Spacemen, FGU, 1978. attribute based, obvious ST Ripoff, kinda
fun for beer and pretzels gaming, ties into FGU's other ST Ripoff: Star
Explorer (boardgame). Best noted for the Videni Carrier and the Zangid BC.
Zangids, the klingon rip-off, were not detailed as people, but their ships
WERE BAD. The Videni, a romulan rip-off, lacked plasma torps but did have
fighters.

Space Patrol, Gamescience/Lou Zocchi, 1977. Even worse mechanics than S&S.
Purely confusing. Some attempt at skills. Written by Kurtic and Russo. I
got it in 1990 for $1.50, and felt ripped off at that price.

Star Trek, the RPG. FASA, Two editions, both in the 1980's. Percentile
system, skill based. Not bad, but few tips on actually PLAYING the game.
Many decent supplements, lots of horrible art. Fasa can write, but they
sure can find the WORST B&W art in the industry...

Star Trek RPG (exact title not yet released): due out christmas this year,
New design/mechanics, new publsiher. Will incorporate TNG and DS9 material.

GURPS Trek: unofficial "On the net" coversions to GURPS. Interesting, and
enough for a full book. Too bad SJG can't get the liscence to run with it.

Prime Directive, Task Force, 1991 (?). Playable, but not aimed at ship crew
games. Focuses on "Prime teams", a cross between seals, Deltas, SWAT, and
Special Warfare (read as psionics and psychological). A two supplements,
both good. Two adventures, both good. Game mechanics are roll lots of dice
versus target numbers; read each die separately, use best single die, dice
open end on rolls  of 6 (couting as 5+ another die).

Twerps Twek: Reindeer games. Date unkown, still in print, AFAIK. Typical
Twerps. Red Shirts have penalties to survive. Cute.

I suspect that the culprit spoken of is S&S... which has strong wargame
overtones.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 02:25:38 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re Pyramid going On-Line

>>Problem is, this is the last issue of pyramid magazine in print.
>>n the future, only the web-based pyramid, to which you have to subscribe
>>will exist!
>
>Why is this a problem? Most ;-) TMLers have access to the Internet right,
>and the old Pyramid wasn't free either.
>
I see three problems:

One: I can no longer do single issue purchases of issues of Pyramid which
may interest me for ONE article.

two: Arrainging payment is a hassle without a credit card or checkbook. No
more dropping down to bosco's, flipping through, and handing over a 5-spot
if I like what I saw. (Mind you, I have NEVER purchased an issue of
Pyramid... IMO, it wasn't worth the money for paper verisons, and the OL
version is not enough less after I print it out to use the materials.)

three: Offest printing produces much higher quality than any of my printers
(Best currently working is an Imagewriter II [72dpi color]).

Then again, the only magazines I did buy religiously were Traveller's
digest, Autoduel Quarterly, and the April Editions of Dragon.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 01:22:56 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: B5 Task SYstemn

B5/TBP has a simple, 2d6 task system

basics: Attribute + Skill +Specialization bonus +1d6 -1d6 vs target numbers
from 3-30. Attributes range from 1-10 in practice, with 4-8 being the
normal ranges. Skill range from 0 to 5 (system limit) and starting PC's
have maximum of level 4. All skills have one or more specilizations, and
having an appropriate specialization adds 2 to the total. Note that the
dice are +1d and -1d; double 6's and double 1's are special. On of the
special doubles is a boon, one a bane. THe ban is a complication, not an
autofail. the boon is also a plot factor. They reccomend a gree die and a
red die, with the green being positive and the red being negative.

So, in general, TBP's task system is att + skill. For T4, the range of
attributes is about 1.5 times TBP's, and skill levels run a little higher
(TBP: 29 "Points" total, with a point being a level or additional
specialty; for all skills the first level also grats a specialty),so I'd
say T4 skill levels are about 1.25 times as many for characters I've seen
in T4 play...  Using TBP's task system with T4 "as is" works, by simply
ignoring specializations...

One thing of note about TBP: all characters start with the same "29 points"
to work with, including 1 skill at level 4, and 3 at level three, each with
two specialties, then 12 points to spend on other skills. TBP assumes the
characters start an epic cycle about average, and climb in skill to meet
the story arc.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 22:53:20 +1200
From: Steve Rennell <wulf@sea.southern.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Revenge of the Son of Traveller Chat

 
> > 6 PM PDT, 9 PM EDT, #traveller on Undernet.

Andrew asked 
> Can someone please translate this into GMT (or evenbetter NZST) for the
> timezone impaired (ie me).

About Mid-day NZST the next day.
I think PST is -7 Zulu, and we're currently +12, so we're 19 
hours ahead or sumething like that. If they want to do it on 
a Friday night, you're looking at being up by lunchtime on 
Saturday :-) as if you have a choice...

Steve

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 05:55:54 -0500
From: "Buston, John" <john.buston@eds.com>
Subject: Re: [design] TL-11 Bulk Carrier - revised

>That'll teach me to fire off a design that late at night.  Here t'is
again, with mods:

>The power plant is now the correct size, with just over 5 weeks fuel
carried.

Sorry, I didn't mean it to sound sarcastic when I suggested your 550MW
power-plant was a typo for 1550MW. I seriously thought it was. By my
calculations you need a 1520MW plant to power a J2 drive and maintain
the J bubble and life support.

J power req = 0.018 * jump number * ships volume

= 0.018 * 2 * 42000m3 = 1512 MW

>The fuel purification plant has been removed (you're right Doug - it
does seem pointless on an unstreamlined vehicle with this role).

? A fuel purification plant still allows you to save 400Cr per DT on
your fuel purchases. It is worthwhile to have as it reduces your running
costs considerably, and increases profitability.

>3xComp (CM:0.6 CP:1.67)

Upping your computer model by one level would more than make up for the
cost with the reduction in crew required, and reduced running costs,
again increasing profitability.

Sorry to be a pain but I have this thing about economical designs.

John

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 05:33:14 -0600
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: De Bello Termino (was Re: Traveller, current status)

>
>Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 03:08:30 +0200 (METDST)
>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
>Subject: Re: Traveller, current status
>
>Jeff Zeitlin writes:
>
>>On Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:07:50 -0400, CardSharks@aol.com (Marc
>>Miller - yes, _that_ Marc Miller) wrote:
>> 
>>>Marc Miller is talking to several publishers about a new edition. No final
>>>word yet.
>> 
>>>Marc Miller
>> 
>>Marc, does Mr Miller always write about himself in the third
>>person like this? :)
>
>Hey, if it was good enough for Caesar...
>
>
>
>      Hans Rancke
>University of Copenhagen
>     rancke@diku.dk

Et tu, Hans?

Sorry - couldn't resist.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 00:30:12 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Revenge of the Son of Traveller Chat

In mail you write:

>> 6 PM PDT, 9 PM EDT, #traveller on Undernet.
>
> Can someone please translate this into GMT (or evenbetter NZST) for the 
> timezone impaired (ie me).

PDT is GMT-7 thus:
1800 PDT = 1800 + 0700 GMT = 2500 GMT = 0100 GMT the next day.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 00:25:49 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

In mail you write:

> On 07/15/98 at 02:58 PM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:
>
>>> I'm a *real* oldtimer.  I got started with the original AH wargames in
>>> the mid-60's, created my own squad level wargame that including
>>> roleplaying like features so several players could interact during play.
>>> Was delighted when I found the original white box D&D, because it broke
>
>>"White box" is *not* "original". The *original* was a sort of "wood
>>grain" print. The white box came later. (Which shows you how long *I*
>>was involved with this. :-)
>
> Really?  My copy is from early '74, and was the first copy in the game
> store I'd been frequenting for years to buy AH and SPI wargames.  So, it
> might not have been the first print run, but it was the print run that
> made it to Pensacola.  ;->

A friend was an *old* time wargamer. And he ordered a copy direct from
TSR as soon as it was announced. He got it in Early 74 and was informed
that he was their first sale in the NW US. He didn't get the
multi-sided dice for a while as they either hadn't been delivered or
were backordered.

>>BTW, speaking of *old* wargames, remember the instructions for the
>>"nuclear war" scenario in Tactics II? :-)
>
> Sure, do.  ;-> I've still got most of those old AH wargames stored away,
> too.

I don't have a copy, but I'd almost consider picking up one if it was
available *cheap*, just to show people. "Pour lighter fluid on map",
indeed! 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:12:25 -0400
From: warmind@juno.com (james a clem)
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller

Umm, okie, we give up, you take the cake as oldest Traveller around!!!


Jim A. Clem, B.S.E.
CEO and Founder, Diasporan Industries, Inc.
www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081/
Traveller Geek Code tc+ tm !tn tt t4+ ru+() ge++ !3i jt au (+) st ls(+)
pi+ he++ merc++ dt+++
GM:  The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM


On Wed, 15 Jul 1998 18:55:04 -0400 "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net>
writes:
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
>To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
>Date: Tuesday, July 14, 1998 9:49 PM
>Subject: Re: Starting Traveller
>
>
>>On 07/14/98 at 06:52 PM,  "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net> 
>said:
>>
>>>I bought the Hardbound Edition of the Traveller rules about '80-'81
>>>or so, but never got to buy anything else or play much. :-( I lived
>>>way out in the country, and was a poor freshman in HS at the time. I
>>>wasn't able to really join the fun until MegaTraveller came out.
>>
>>>Man. And I thought *I* was old for a gamer.
>>
>>Oh, man!  Heck no!  You're just a youngster compared to us *real*
>>oldtimers.  I was *teaching* junior high when Traveller came out in 
>'77.
>>Of course, age isn't a factor with Traveller, it's all in how you 
>play
>>the game.  I hope we're all still going strong when we're retired and
>>have the time to get together and play like we did when we were kids.
>>
>>
>>Eris,
>>    probably one of the oldest geezers here!
>>
>
>Uh, I was born in Oct 51' and had been in the Army 8 years when 
>Traveller
>came out in 77'.  Of those 8 years I was on my third Overseas 
>assignment
>(5.5 of 8 years).  I think I had physically travelled around the world 
>three
>times by then.
>
>Thom (mind of a 12 year old) Harris
>
>

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:23:03 EDT
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Old Gamers and Peripatetic Moons

Old? You want Old? I got Old!

I played Traveller _before_ it came out...and there aren't many people who can
say that.

Leaoard asks:

>But how many of us played D&D when *it* first came out?

[Loren holds up his hand, then gets dizzy and has to put it back in his lap]

Ahem...

>Someone worked out once that the force needed to blast  the  moon
>out of orbit and into interstellar space would actually pulverise
>it into rubble!

Really? How about the force it would take to acellerate the moon to a speed
such that it can travel from one star system to another in a week's time, slow
down to spend days or more passing through the system, and then accelerate it
through interstellar space for the next episode?

Bruce Johnson sayeth:

>GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
>
>> Another reason we didn't do it: Bode's _Tongball_ comic strips. We could
never
>> have published _ANY_ illos even remotely resembling spherical tanks in the
>> '70s without being laughed out of the game shop...or the head shop.
>
>Oh...man I think I gotta dig some of my old Juggernaut comix out of
>storage and start cracking with FFS2...

Don't forget the Punkerpan bipods!

"Armed with cheap and largely ineffective weapons."

Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:02:11 -0500
From: "Andy Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: I'm a nice guy...

Many people have been asking about the Excel 97 version of my FF&S
spreadsheet. The spreadsheet is written in Excel 97 (Quattro 8.0, actually,
but gets moved to Excel 97) then saved in Excel 5.0 format for people
without Excel 97.

Well, at the moment I'm not hurting for web space, so I've posted all three
versions (Quattro Pro 8.0, Excel 5.0 _and_ Excel 97) to my web site. I've
also updated my Robots spreadsheet and SSDS spreadsheet to have all three
versions.

The can all be found on my website, www.ames.net/igor/traveller/

Now don't say that I never give you anything :)

+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                       |
| Home: igor@ames.net - http://www.ames.net/igor/                    |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/                    |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU: tc++(**) ru+ ge 3i+ jt- au+ ls+ kk+ hi+ as+ va+ dr+ so+ zh+  |
|       vi+ da+                                                      |
| Geek: GCS d- s+:+ a- C++ W++ w+++(-)$ PS+ PE t- 5++ X+ R+++ tv+    |
|       b+++ DI+ D-- G e+ h---- r+++ y++++                           |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 11:32:47 -0400
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: RE; been playing since

Lets see..my first exposure to Traveller was around 1980, when a friend of
mine showed me the game and helped me roll up a character for it. My first
game of Traveller occurred that fall, when I played in a game put on by
some members of our local gaming club at the time. Didn't play regularly
until 1981, when I played in a short-lived campaign that my friend Greg
ran; one of those "merchants-who-become-pirates" things. Played
sporadically after that, including running Traveller a few times myself. I
never did try to play MegaTraveller (which I am now regretting), although I
owned it. In 1993, I got into Traveller: The New Era and ran a enjoyable
campaign with that, switching to T4 when that came out. right now, I'm not
running Traveller as such, but will be planning to revive both my TNE and
T4 games under the GURPS rules this fall.
	My first gaming experience was, of course, D&D...actually, a hybrid; the
Monster Manual and Player's Handbook for AD&D were out, but not the DMG, so
we just used original D&D and the Greyhawk supplement for that.
The next game I got heavily into was Champions :)

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 10:08:31 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: RE; been playing since

Mine was, I think at a place in Bloomington, IL.  Some guy by the name of
Loren Wiseman sold then to me.  Although, I do not know what ever happened
to him, I do know where my first books are & what they were.  They were the
LBB's 1, 2, 3, 4, & 5.  The next day I created my first character & within
a week I had started to run my first game.

Legate Legion, Militant Jewish Terrorist
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"The system does not matter, its ROLE-Playing that matters." - Me to
Acid_Blue, Chuckles, & Rob the Lumberjackman.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 13:17:21 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

In a message dated 7/15/98 15:59:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
shadow@krypton.rain.com writes:

<< BTW, speaking of *old* wargames, remember the instructions for the
 "nuclear war" scenario in Tactics II? :-)
  >>
Was that the one who said to pour lighter fluid on the map and set a match to
it?  One wargame I used to own had that rule...

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:12:46 -0600
From: chet-el@juno.com (Chester L Cox)
Subject: Re: Them Ol' Gaming Systems

"Actually, he had a Star Trek game (you played it with "ship counters"
that were 4" squares on a *large* area of floor!). It wasn't authorized
and he had to change the name of the game, races, and many weapons
rather quickly. I have a Xerox of the old rules around here somewhere.

- - -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)"

Ah, here you're talking about Zocchi's (non-role-playing) wargame
Starfleet Battles.  Or I may be remembering the boardgame Task Force
published, which was basic'ly a reworking of the Zocchi game.  Zocchi's
Starfleet game was preceded by (and loosely interpreted from) a fighter
jet game which I can't remember the name of.  Just like the Starfleet
game, it used lots of space and string.  He demo'd it several times at
the local Air Force base which, though I spent months there, I've
forgotten the name of IT too.  (It's sad when a once-adequate mind
deteriorates!)

*jeep!
- --Chet

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 14:10:36 -0400
From: John Macek <macek@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Them Ol' Gaming Systems

Chester L Cox wrote:
> 
> Ah, here you're talking about Zocchi's (non-role-playing) wargame
> Starfleet Battles.  Or I may be remembering the boardgame Task Force
> published, which was basic'ly a reworking of the Zocchi game.  Zocchi's
> Starfleet game was preceded by (and loosely interpreted from) a fighter
> jet game which I can't remember the name of.  Just like the Starfleet
> game, it used lots of space and string.  He demo'd it several times at
> the local Air Force base which, though I spent months there, I've
> forgotten the name of IT too.  (It's sad when a once-adequate mind
> deteriorates!)
> 
> *jeep!
> --Chet

Actually, the Zocchi game was Star Fleet Battle Manual.  Great cover art
of the Federation dreadnaught USS Alliance, NCC-2113.

Got my start with D&D in '76.  Empire of the Petal Throne &
Metamorphosis Alpha somewhere in there, & Trav in '77.  

John

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 14:15:35 -0700
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming SYStems

Ben Boren typed out:
>Hard to believe it was designed by the same guy who did Shadowrun, hmm? 
>If you read the one paragraph blurbs in the back of the Aftermath book,
>one of the things Paul Hume muses about is how cool a setting it would
>be if Magic started working again after the war...

Well...Paul Hume is a practicing mage of the Golden Dawn Tradition, and an
Aikidoist to boot.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
Vikings? There ain't no vikings here. Just us honest farmers. The town was 
burning, the villagers were dead. They didn't need those sheep anyway. 
That's our story and we're sticking to it.  
                 http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 11:12:30 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Revenge of the Son of Traveller Chat

At 06:26 PM 7/15/98 -7, you wrote:
>Hmm...
>
>It seems Zhodani Terrorists have kidnapped Suzette Dollar and are 
>currently holding her captive on the planet Zort.  Ransom has been 
>set at $4.37 and a First Edition, First Printing LBB Box Set.

You don't fool us Stu!  She's either hiding from you and the Small Change
at some resort, getting the treatment she deserves, or she melted.

- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Nothing concentrates the military mind  |
|  so much as the discovery that you have  |
|  walked into an ambush."                 |
|                      -Thomas Packenham   |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 11:22:26 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Been Playin' Since

At 02:06 AM 7/16/98 -0800, you wrote:

>Who knew I'd become a gaming junkie... I haven't gone more than 6 weeks
>without some form of gaming since Basic Training (1987, Ft Dix, NJ, C-3-39
>Inf)... and, discouting that, since 1983. Were it not for the dice being
>locked away, I'd have had a group going DURING basic.

Feh.  We had a D&D game going during OSUT at Ft. Benning in Oct 84.  DM had
the rules memorized, and sketched down stats in his Infantry Bluebook
during intsruction.. Drills thought he was taking notes.  We had a single
20-sider which was used for all rolls.

For some odd reason the majority of people in that game ended up as
Rangers...
- --

+---------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net |
|        http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
+---------------------------------------------+
|    "But think of Korea, of Guadalcanal, of  |
| Belleau Wood, of Viet Nam.  The H-bomb did  |
| not abolish the infantryman; it made him    |
| essential... and he has the toughest job of |
| all and should be honored."                 |
|                       - Robert Heinlein     |
+---------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 11:23:40 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: I'm a nice guy...

At 09:02 AM 7/16/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Many people have been asking about the Excel 97 version of my FF&S
>spreadsheet. The spreadsheet is written in Excel 97 (Quattro 8.0, actually,
>but gets moved to Excel 97) then saved in Excel 5.0 format for people
>without Excel 97.
>
>Well, at the moment I'm not hurting for web space, so I've posted all three
>versions (Quattro Pro 8.0, Excel 5.0 _and_ Excel 97) to my web site. I've
>also updated my Robots spreadsheet and SSDS spreadsheet to have all three
>versions.
>
>The can all be found on my website, www.ames.net/igor/traveller/
>
>Now don't say that I never give you anything :)

I nominate Andy for Gearhead Sainthood!

- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 11:31:32 -0700
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

>Well boys I remember  playing the original D&D (Dinosaurs & Droppings)
carved on those three stone >tablets. Yep me and Org had to chisel our own
dice out of basalt.......... NO REALLY.

You didn't start playing until there were chisels?  NEWBIE!!  ;-)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 20:04:17 +0100
From: trisen@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: Re: Old Gamers and Peripatetic Moons

Loren Wiseman wrote:
>>Someone worked out once that the force needed to blast the moon
>>out of orbit and into interstellar space would actually pulverise
>>it into rubble!
>
>Really? How about the force it would take to acellerate the moon to a
>speed such that it can travel from one star system to another in a
>week's time, slow down to spend days or more passing through the
>system, and then accelerate it through interstellar space for the next
>episode?

You mean that's not possible?  :-^   I thought it was 'cos of all
those wormholes the  moon  kept  dropping  through  (interstellar
space must be like swiss cheese)!

Of course, you might prefer a modern accurate SF  TV-series  like
Star Trek.  Very few wormholes there ... though it does sometimes
seem like 'Star Trek: Voyager' should be renamed ...

        'Star Trek: Subspace Anomaly of the Week'

Regards PLST
<tagless>

___________________________________
To sign up for a free email account, visit http://www.postmaster.co.uk.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #665
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(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Been Playin' Since 
winmail attachments
Re: Traveller In Pyramid
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Re: ST RPGs
Re: Revenge of the Son of Traveller Chat
Re: Been Playin' Since
A traditional Vilani Merchant
Re Economic Design Study #3.6 (was Making profits half full)
Re:  Andynus Aikinus, Gearheadus Maximus
Don't make me a saint yet...new FF&S spreadsheet available
Re: Andynus Aikinus, Gearheadus Maximus
Deck Plans updated
Re: Old Gaming SYStems
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Re: Andynus Aikinus, Gearheadus Maximus
Re: winmail attachments

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 23:28:24 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Been Playin' Since 

> At 03:29 PM 7/16/98 -0400, you wrote:
> >> Feh.  We had a D&D game going during OSUT at Ft. Benning in Oct 84.  DM had
> >> the rules memorized, and sketched down stats in his Infantry Bluebook
> >> during intsruction.. Drills thought he was taking notes.  We had a single
> >> 20-sider which was used for all rolls.
> >> 
> >> For some odd reason the majority of people in that game ended up as
> >> Rangers...
> >
> >But did they learn to jump off the back of a perfectly good dragon?
> 
> But Green Dragons are Lawful Evil, not Good....

Heh.  Set myself up for that one, didn't I?

Keven
- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 00:41:35 EDT
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: winmail attachments

Oh Goody!

Two of these in one day.

Please turn that "feature" off.

GypsyComet
(who believes that Microsoft Mail IS the new Internet Worm)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 20:42:56 -0700
From: "Brannon \"Ben\" Boren" <brannonb@blarg.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller In Pyramid

MJ Dougherty wrote:
> 
> Pyamid is currently running a 3-part Mileu 0 scenario (3 linked scenarios
> actually), the first of which is in the current issue.

Are these T4 or GURPS?

Ben

- --
Brannon "Ben" Boren
brannonb@blarg.net
http://www.mog.net/brannonb/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 23:28:41 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

In mail you write:

>>Starfleet Battles
>   Heh heh.  The only time we ever managed to play a whole scenario of 
> Zocchi's SFB was when my best friends parents were building a new house; 
>  after the roof was on, but before the interior walls were in, we had 40' 
> by 60' of play area.  Just enough for a 3 vs 3 cruiser engagement.

I've heard of some kids who got permission to play it in the gym at
their school on days when it wasn't being used for practice. Apparently
a basketball court is just about enough room. :-)

I'f I'd ever finished the bases I was making out of scrap masonite, it
would have been possible to play it on a lawn. Or at a park. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 23:25:47 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

In mail you write:

> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>
>>Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems
>>
> snip
>>
>>
>>BTW, speaking of *old* wargames, remember the instructions for the
>>"nuclear war" scenario in Tactics II? :-)
>
>  This wouldn't be the one popularized in Murphy's Rules would it? The
> one that involves lighter fluid?

Yep. Though I don't think Murphy's Rules gave all of it. You see,
Tactics II had counters and scenarios for everything from bronze age to
modern... 

So the instructions for a WWIII scenario did refer to lighter fluid on
the map. After that they then went on to say that you should start over
with the Ancients scenarios. :-)

>  I started RPGs the same month that Steve Jackson's TFT:Wizard
> appeared from Metagaming. Traveller took another year or so. Back
> then most of my buying was determined by the reviews in Space Gamer...

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 23:50:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: ST RPGs

Actually, Last Unicorn's ST:TNG game is coming out in August, at GenCon 
(Aug 8).  It's at the printers now.  I wrote part of it, so I'm biases, 
but it's a very clean D6-based system which is easy and fast and much 
less clunky than the old FASA game.  In case anyone cares I did the tech 
for the main rulebook and for most of the supplements (they'll be 
releasing 2 supplements/month for a while).

Also, since I'm tooting my own horn, there will be a new T4 scenario
coming out in the September issue of Shadis Magazine.  it's titled Far
From Home and involves a ship misjumping into unknown space, so I thought
I should let folks know that I originally wrote it back in Summer 1996 (it
was supposed to appear in some issue of JTAS, but we know how that went),
so it is in no way a duplicate of the multi-part scenario titled Long Way
Home. 


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 23:44:07 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Revenge of the Son of Traveller Chat

dberry@hooked.net wrote

> At 06:26 PM 7/15/98 -7, you wrote:

> >It seems Zhodani Terrorists have kidnapped Suzette Dollar and are 
> >currently holding her captive on the planet Zort.  Ransom has been 
> >set at $4.37 and a First Edition, First Printing LBB Box Set.

> You don't fool us Stu!  She's either hiding from you and the Small 
> Change at some resort, getting the treatment she deserves, or she 
> melted.

I am willing to accept on faith that Suzette _might_ want to hide from
Stu.  I am, however, somewhat puzzled as to why she might wish to hide
from the $4.37 in small change.  Can anyone enlighten me?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 23:54:56 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Been Playin' Since

I have been playing Traveller since the summer of 1978 (two thirds of my
life...) but did not really get into Traveller until 1979 when this cool
new supplement called Supplement 3, The Spinward Marches came out, prior
to that point you had to make up your own sectors (or use the Regina
Subsector from The Kinnunir).  I remember making up my own subsector &
having to draw my own hex paper to put it on.

I sometimes wonder if the Traveller universe lost something when they
took away the space for referee created sectors.  I am glad that GDW
kept Foreven Sector as a referee preserve & I hope that SJG does the
same.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 00:52:14 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: A traditional Vilani Merchant

Sharik Giidada, Dashami Lashas class Merchant (FF&S v2)
Designed by Andrew Moffatt-Vallance

Statistics
 Tons: 1000 Td (SL Thick Disc Supersonic)
 Crew: 10/14
 Cargo: 600 Td (3 Large Cargo Hatches, Handling: 1 x 350 ton)
 Volume: 14000m3
 Passengers High/Med: 5/10
 Cost: 169.689 MCr (25% bulk discount)
 Mass (L/C): 12796t/4298t
 Passengers Low: 0
 Maintenance Points: 184
 Dimensions: 32.9m x 32.9m x 16.4m
 Troops/Science: 0/0
 Tech Level: 11
 Size: 9
 Frozen Watch: 0

Electronics
 Controls: Dynamic, Standard automation. 3 x Comp (CM: 0.5 CP: 2.0).
           No bridge.
 Communications: 1 x Radio (50,000km, 0.02MW). 1 x Laser (1,000AU, 0MW).
 Sensors: 1 x PEMS (12.5 [1.6mkm], 0MW). 1 x AEMS (9, 0.13MW).
 Survey/Science:
 ECM:
 Signatures: Vis:0.5, IR:0 (0 at 498MW, -0.5 at 50MW), Act:0.5, Neu:0,
             Grav:1

Weaponry
 4 x Empty Turret (3 Td ea.)

Performance
 1 Jump (100 Td/pc fuel)
 1/2.9 Maneuver (Thruster: 315MW)
 1/2.9 Contra-grav (176MW)
 754kph/1899kph Atmosphere (Cruise: 566kph/1424kph)
 1 Power (Fusion: 500MW, 0.08yr)
 0 Battery
 100.4 Fuel
 0/12/17/0/0 Accomodations
 116 Person/Weeks Life Support (Type: Standard, Good food [Stored])
 1 G-Comp
 0 ESA
 0 Sandcasters
 0 Damper Turrets
 0 Damper Screen
 0 Meson Screen
 0 Force Field
 0 Gravtics
 0 [20] Armor, 18 Structure

Features
 10 x Decontamination Airlock
 1 x Ship's locker (0.5 Td ea.)
 1 x Ordinary Galley (Cap: 29)

Small Craft
 1 x Minimal Hanger (40 Td, 1 hatch)

Backups
 Drives:
 Screens:
 Communications:
 Sensors:
 Survey/Science:
 ECM:
 Power & Fuel:

Crew Details
 2 x Helm
 6 x Engineering
 1 x Mainteniance
 2 x Flight
 1 x Command
 1 x Steward (Shuligii)
 1 x Medical

The Dashami Lashas class was the most common Vilani merchant ship plying 
the space lanes in the Solomani Rim during the Interstellar Wars. It displayed
most of the charateristics of the "classic" Ziru Sirka merchant vessel:
restricted endurance, reliance on external fuel supplies, the capacity to be
armed in emergancies, a flattened disk hull, decontamination equipment on all
access points, limited automation, low passenger capacity, and the inclusion
of a Shuligii in the chain of command.

The ship's only carried sufficent fuel and supplies for 21 Vilani days (4
Terran weeks) and was incapable of wilderness refueling. This was a result
of the Ziru Sikra's deliberate policy to restrict starships endurance, thus
limiting their abiltiy to ignore established trade routes or to travel
beyond the confines of the Ziru Sirka. As with all Vilani merchant vessels
the Dashami Lashas class was normally unarmed but was also a naval auxilary
and subject to mobilisation in times of emergancy. Thus the class was fitted
with four empty 3 Td turrets and its fusion plant produced 4.09 Mw of surplus
power. This allowed for the ship to be armed in times of emergancy. Indeed,
throughout the Interstellar Wars many Vilani escorts and patrolships were
simply armed merchants.

Unlike Vilani warships, Vilani mechant ships were traditionally given names
in the Terran fashion. The Dashimi Lashas class were most commonly named
after notable persons from Vilani history. Even after the final collapse of
the Ziru Sirka the class remained very popular. Not only did it continue to
be very popular with the Vilani, but many Terran shipping companies found it
to be a highly profitable design for well established trade routes. Captured
examples had been highly sought after items during the Interstellar Wars and
after the end of the Wars several Terran shipbuilders started production of
the class. The Sharik Giidada was the first example to be built in a Terran
yard. Named after a humanitarian Vilani Ligumii (Nurse) who had at great 
personal risk had saved 45 Terran prisoners of war during the 3rd Interstellar 
War.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 14:04:43 +0100
From: Phil Kitching <Philk@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re Economic Design Study #3.6 (was Making profits half full)

I have received several comments about this design study for an
ultra cheap merchant ship.
This was why I put up a design study, rather than a documented design.

I'd like to make an "in my opinion" reply to some of the points made.
I'm not going to quote each one because that is too many digests to go
through, so appologies if I misquote anyone.

Firstly my own comments:
	It would probably be easier to load if it was box shaped instead
	of speherical, especially with standard cargo containers.
	I think the hull is too thin, probably should be 10[29] not 0[20].
Then
	"It needs 3 computers"

This depends on what you think the computer is in Traveller.
I assume that it is a spread out set of linked control systems with
little bits of dedicated processing power for each, so losing one bit
of the system doesn't affect the rest. Of course if the bridge is out
of action you need to put people at each individual console which could
be difficult with a crew of 3.
Perhaps a second computer, although you should be able to have lots of
redundancy and ability to fuction with partial availability even with
just the main computer.
If anyone points a "gun" at this ship it might as well surrender, so why
bother with 3 comps to survive battle damage.
Besides, it has an addition flight comp.

	"No purification plant"

The economics are out here.
With a 0.5G drive it takes 6 hours to get to 100 dia for a running jump
(actually longer, because it cannot accelerate for the last hour whilst
the jump drive warms up. (1G is 4 hours, assuming planet size A)
This is why I felt it was a reasonable cost saving.
To get to a gas giant takes over 1 week so it does not cost in.
Besides, with only subsonic streamlining, you canot refuel there.
You could ocean refuel, but there are questions as to would high tech
governments allow it, so that leaves wilderness refuelling.
This ship is not designed for wilderness trading.

	"Only 1.08G"

Solution, boost the CG and reduce the thrusters until it can take off.
In reality, with the sort of regular freight operation this ship works,
it would be more cost effective to drop the CG and use shuttles based on
the planet (size the ship so that all the destinations add up to several
ships per day and this works). The streamlining was only an afterthought.

	"Why an AEMS"

Because it is quite cheap and it was there (ie it was on the spreadsheet
and I did not delete it).

	"Needs another 20MW to run jump and life support"

Sniff. And I spent so much time trying to get this right :-(
I thought it had enough power since all the sensors can be turned off in
jumpspace. Of course, I probably turned off the computer as well.

	"Where do you get 417 tons of cargo"

As was observed, not from the standard trade tables.
The point of my original message was that the trade tables do not apply
to real Traveller merchants using proper trade fleets.
The point of this design is to refute the arguement that Cr1,000/dt and
Cr10,000/high passage don't pay and must be increased - they do,
especially if the infrastructure is available to ensure that
the ships are full (>80%).
Low passage is a different problem, because the rules say it exists but
economically it does not seem to work and it tends to kill its passengers.

IMHO, PCs do not play "proper merchants", they play "merchant adventurers".
That is why they get their own set of trade tables.

Besides, if all the crew take a percentage profit instead of their usual
salary, then the free trader has a perfectly good business plan, even
with normal freight rates.
("5% of nothing is nothing, we want 10% :-)

(There is some evidence for PCs being extra risk - if the players
start with a 30 year old ship, it is not at 40% cost with 40 years
payments, its at 25% cost but with 10 years payments.
Not exactly conclusive, I grant you.)

Phil Kitching

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 08:19:02 -0500
From: "Andy Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: Re:  Andynus Aikinus, Gearheadus Maximus

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BDB15B.8E65D2E0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Brian Songy wrote:
> I want an "Andy Aikins is my hero" T-shirt!

Who is Andy Aikins? :)

Just kidding...don't feel bad, but my name is mispelled just about
_everywhere_.

Now, about the t-shirt...just send $19.95 plus shipping and handling to.....
:)


> (so, when will  the GURPS: Traveller spreadsheet be ready? :)  )>

Ummmm...it is done :) I just can't release it until the game itself is
released. Plus, the actual design rules aren't frozen yet, according to Dave
Pulver, so I may have to change the system.

It's a nice system, modular in fashion but completely compatable with
Vehicles 2nd Edition. Not too shabby.

As soon as the NDA is lifted due to game release, and I get permission from
SJG (they require written permission, which is fine with me, since they
don't charge licencing fees if I make it free, which I will), I'll release
it as well.

Also, in the next day or two...for us old timers I'll be releasing a High
Guard spreadsheet...I was feeling nostolgic (sic), and plus I needed to
chekc on something...

> Andynus Akinus, Gearheadus Maximus

I find this amusing...becuase I don't place myself in the gearhead category,
actually :) To me, gearheads are those that want the most detailed design
rules so they can assemble their items...actually, that's not me. I like
things simple. High Guard, even with its flaws, is probably my favorite
design system. The reason I make these spreadsheets, other than to gather
worshippers for my quest for world domination, is because the new design
sequences are _HARD_ in my opinion, and I want them simple for myself. And
if I'm going to make them for myself, I might as well share them with the
rest of you guys, since a lot of you have helped me over the years
(especially those of you who helped me rebuild my Traveller collection lost
in the flood of '93). Since I happen to be a programmer by trade (goin on 10
years now), I write tools to make this complicated stuff simple - in my
mind, the gearheads are (and I mean this in a good way, I admire you guys)
people like Dave Golden who _designs_ these rules and such...something I
could never do...

But, if you want to canonize me, go ahead. It'll look good on the resume...

+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                       |
| Home: igor@ames.net - http://www.ames.net/igor/                    |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/                    |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU: tc++(**) ru+ ge 3i+ jt- au+ ls+ kk+ hi+ as+ va+ dr+ so+ zh+  |
|       vi+ da+                                                      |
| Geek: GCS d- s+:+ a- C++ W++ w+++(-)$ PS+ PE t- 5++ X+ R+++ tv+    |
|       b+++ DI+ D-- G e+ h---- r+++ y++++                           |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 09:11:30 -0500
From: "Andy Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: Don't make me a saint yet...new FF&S spreadsheet available

Well shucks...there are two bugs in version 2.6 of the FF&S spreadsheet...so
version 2.7 is now available :)

The two bugs were:
* The weapon battery time on the power page was using defenses power, not
weapon power.
* The CUSP had an error for ships who had bridges but didn't need one.

The new version is, as always, available on my website:

http://www.ames.net/igor/traveller/

Go into the filelist section, or the Operations section of either the frames
or no-frames sites.

Excel 97, Excel 5.0, and Quattro Pro 8.0 versions are available.

Let me know if there are any other problems...and I would like to thank all
the people who have been emailing me, with praise and criticism. I
appreciate both.

+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                       |
| Home: igor@ames.net - http://www.ames.net/igor/                    |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/                    |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU: tc++(**) ru+ ge 3i+ jt- au+ ls+ kk+ hi+ as+ va+ dr+ so+ zh+  |
|       vi+ da+                                                      |
| Geek: GCS d- s+:+ a- C++ W++ w+++(-)$ PS+ PE t- 5++ X+ R+++ tv+    |
|       b+++ DI+ D-- G e+ h---- r+++ y++++                           |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 10:12:59 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: Andynus Aikinus, Gearheadus Maximus

- -----Original Message-----
From: Andy Akins <igor@ames.net>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Friday, July 17, 1998 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: Andynus Aikinus, Gearheadus Maximus


Quote the Good Guy,

>"The reason I make these spreadsheets, other than to gather
>worshippers for my quest for world domination, "

Andy, why stop at only ONE world?

Mike Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com
"Help Wanted: Telepath, You know where to apply!"  unknown, bumper sticker.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 09:36:11 -0500
From: "Andy Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: Deck Plans updated

To those of you interested in such things, I've updated the deckplans for my
THUDDD science ship submission. I'd appreciate any comments on them...

They can be found on my website:

http://www.ames.net/igor/traveller

In the Filelist section. The ship is the Duuagka class science vessel. The
plans are in PDF format.

+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                       |
| Home: igor@ames.net - http://www.ames.net/igor/                    |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/                    |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU: tc++(**) ru+ ge 3i+ jt- au+ ls+ kk+ hi+ as+ va+ dr+ so+ zh+  |
|       vi+ da+                                                      |
| Geek: GCS d- s+:+ a- C++ W++ w+++(-)$ PS+ PE t- 5++ X+ R+++ tv+    |
|       b+++ DI+ D-- G e+ h---- r+++ y++++                           |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 09:32:02 -0700
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@home.com>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming SYStems

>>More familar with Phoenix Command, the only game
>>ever to make me miss the
>>simplicity of Aftermath.
>
>Gee, and I really LIKE Aftermath...

Ah yes, Aftermath. Or as our old game group used to call it; Role-Playing
for Accountants. I can't think of it without a wry smile of amusement. The
combat system of this doctoral thesis disguised as a game included a 2-page
flowchart to describe the rather convoluted phases of a combat turn.
Swords, bows, firearms, explosives, lasers, slingshots, and probably
toothpicks for all I know, had completely different combat rules. You had
fo figure things like the encumberance of each bullet differently if it was
loose or in a clip.

We had some real memorable firefights with that one. My favorite was the
time a guy took a 50 cal HEAP round from an APC right between the eyes,
said "ouch", then shot everyone inside the APC. Through the armor. With an
SMG. Then there was the time a guy fired his crossbow at an enemy but
accidently shot himself in the throat. The biggest encounter we tried to
run using the full rules was between 8 combatants. Unfortunately, it
included a slingshot and a laser rifle, so it took about 2 days of constant
play to complete.

The critical miss rules brought new meaning to the words "friendly fire".
There was a time we organized a bunch of villagers to attack a Master Rat
colony, and when we gave the order to open fire practically everyone shot
each other.

The only game I found to rival Aftermath is Paranoia.

- --
IMTU t4+ ru ge+ !3i(3i++) jt-- au+ ls- 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 12:29:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael and MJ Houghton <herveus@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

Howdy!

Leonard wrote:
> In mail you write:
> 
> > shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> >
> >>Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems
> >>
> > snip
> >>
> >>
> >>BTW, speaking of *old* wargames, remember the instructions for the
> >>"nuclear war" scenario in Tactics II? :-)
> >
> >  This wouldn't be the one popularized in Murphy's Rules would it? The
> > one that involves lighter fluid?
> 
> Yep. Though I don't think Murphy's Rules gave all of it. You see,
> Tactics II had counters and scenarios for everything from bronze age to
> modern... 

I think you are thinking of Strategy I (SPI). Tactics II was set in the
modern era only.

yours,
Michael
- -- 
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@access.digex.net  | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
                          | http://www.access.digex.net/~herveus/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 12:39:58 -0400
From: warmind@juno.com (james a clem)
Subject: Re: Andynus Aikinus, Gearheadus Maximus

On Fri, 17 Jul 1998 10:12:59 -0400 "Michael D. Peters"
<Letterworks@CITNET.com> writes:
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Andy Akins <igor@ames.net>
>To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
>Date: Friday, July 17, 1998 9:27 AM
>Subject: Re: Andynus Aikinus, Gearheadus Maximus
>
>
>Quote the Good Guy,
>
>>"The reason I make these spreadsheets, other than to gather
>>worshippers for my quest for world domination, "
>
>Andy, why stop at only ONE world?


I've seen a banner on someone's web site (I can't find the URL, yet) who
plays TFG's Starfire (tm).  It reads....

STARFIRE:  WHEN ONE PLANET JUST ISN'T ENOUGH!!

My kinda guy!


Jim A. Clem, B.S.E.
CEO and Founder, Diasporan Industries, Inc.
www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081/
Traveller Geek Code tc+ tm !tn tt t4+ ru+() ge++ !3i jt au (+) st ls(+)
pi+ he++ merc++ dt+++
GM:  The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 10:17:05 -0700
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Re: winmail attachments

>Oh Goody!
>
>Two of these in one day.
>
>Please turn that "feature" off.
>
>GypsyComet
>(who believes that Microsoft Mail IS the new Internet Worm)
>

I have made this offer before, and it still stands.

If someone on the list starts generating winmail.dat files, notify the user
and direct them to me.  I will make every effort to assist them in
correcting the condition (if I can), and prevent a repitition of the
unpleasant attitude I had to put up with while I was originally
troubleshooting _my_ winmail.dat problem.

Generally the user is not aware that they are generating the files, so
public pronouncements without _specific_ notification_ are pretty much
useless for anything but creating bad feelings.

douglas

E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller
IMTU tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls
The early bird gets the worm, BUT
   the second mouse gets the cheese!

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #667
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Friday, July 17 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 668



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Ack!
Re: Atlas of the Imperium
Re: late 3I naval org. Don't discount the Scouts!
Traveller and Imperium Games II
Traveller and Imperium Games
Re: Atlas of the Imperium
Re: Old Gaming SYStems
Re: Old Gaming SYStems
Re: Revenge of the Son of Traveller Chat
Imperial Squadrons
Referee Created Sectors ?
Re: Referee Created Sectors ?
Re: Referee Created Sectors ?
Traveller In Pyramid
Re: Referee Created Sectors ? 
Area of effect
Re: Distance Formula
[none]
Re Tankers
Re: Referee Created Sectors ?
Re: Revenge of the Son of Traveller Chat
Re: late 3I naval org. Don't discount the Scouts!
Re: Traveller and Imperium Games II
Does anyone know Joel Pratt? (sorry about getting off topic)
Re: StarTrek Games and Task systems and game feel.
RE: GM Preserves

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 12:37:58 -0500
From: "Andy Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: Ack!

I apologize for the Winmail.dat on one of my messages...I have no idea how
it got there. Most of my messages don't have one, so I don't know what
happened. If anyone knows why this happened, please let me know, so I can
fix it. I'm using Outlook 98 here at work (Grrrrr...my office uses all
microsoft products....I prefer my Corel and Netscape at home...).

*sigh* I suppose this means I can't be canonized, right? Darn...I was
starting to think up the silly rules that my followers will have to obey.
Oh, well....

+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                       |
| Home: igor@ames.net - http://www.ames.net/igor/                    |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/                    |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU: tc++(**) ru+ ge 3i+ jt- au+ ls+ kk+ hi+ as+ va+ dr+ so+ zh+  |
|       vi+ da+                                                      |
| Geek: GCS d- s+:+ a- C++ W++ w+++(-)$ PS+ PE t- 5++ X+ R+++ tv+    |
|       b+++ DI+ D-- G e+ h---- r+++ y++++                           |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 08:52:04 -0700
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Atlas of the Imperium

Douglas Glatz wrote:
> 
> Does anyone have a copy, or a line on a copy, for sale?
> 
> douglas

Yep, I have a copy, I also now have an el-cheepo scanner, and no it's
not for sale. How else may I help?

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 14:35:53 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: late 3I naval org. Don't discount the Scouts!

[snip Impy Fleet analysis...Conclusion; Impy Fleet is BIG]

>Not counting system fleets, which may add another 1E9 or so in tonnage. [SWAG]

What's [SWAG] mean?

>All of this is naval and scout, excluding scout-only craft like survey
>cruisers and XBoats. For X-Boats, I'd figure on 3 per segment of the
>Express Boat lines, plus 1 scout per planet not Navalized, thus not in the
>pools, on X-Mail service to non-route worlds.

Some (me included) might argue for this number being a factor of 3-10
larger.  Perhaps 12-15 xboats per leg.

> So, add 110KTd in Scouts, and
>probably 50KTd in XBoats, plus a 600Td tender in each leg, adding another
>300KTd... chump change, really.[gueses based upon craft sizes and
>maintenance and misjump rates, probably 50%low for XBoats; scouts counts
>only those not subject to navalization and thus not under naval figures].

Perhaps you are including this in that last sentance, but doesn't the IISS
have scout *cruisers*?  The AHL Class served for awhile in that role.  I
would assume that the AHL's replacement class (I don't know of a Canon
replacement) may have served in the Scout Cruiser role in its obselescence
as well.

Anyway, its bound to be, as you say, chump change in comarison to the
regular Navy numbers you have, even if there are 60k cruisers in large
numbers.

>SO, roughly 7.5 E9 Td in imperial service. Not counted are Depot Fleets,
>which are the mothballed reserve of obsolescant craft.

Ooohh, Count the mothballers too!  Good old TL14 and TL13 designs just ripe
for a few Zho lasers to chew on.

Pete


Peter H. Brenton
MIT's Plasma Science and Fusion Center
(617) 253-3185
pbrenton@mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 14:39:03 EDT
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Traveller and Imperium Games II

I have just learned that Imperium is offering goods (T4 Traveller materials)
in payment of its outstanding debts to various writers. I gave them the
following notice today.


"On April 30, 1998 I gave you notice that you must, under the terms of our
contract, discontinue all sale or disposition of the Traveller material you
have produced. It has come to my attention that you are offering this material
in payment of outstanding debts. 

Barter or disposition to creditors of Imperium Games in payment of debt is
also a prohibited activity. You cannot even offer these goods in payment of
outstanding debt."



Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 14:39:00 EDT
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Traveller and Imperium Games

For general distribution.

	The license held by Imperium Games to publish the Traveller role-playing game
expired on December 31, 1997 and has not been renewed. That license included a
provision which would have allowed Imperium to continue to sell the Traveller
titles in its inventory provided certain conditions were met.
	Imperium has not met those conditions and on April 30, 1998 Far Future
notified Imperium to immediately discontinue sale of all materials produced
under the Imperium Games license agreement.
	The range of materials published for Traveller by Imperium Games is
unlicensed and cannot be sold without a new license from Far Future. There is
no immediate prospect of a license which would allow that to take place.
	The materials covered by this expired contract include the following titles
by Imperium Games.

 		Marc Miller’s Traveller,
		Traveller Referee Screen,
		Fire Fusion & Steel,
		Emperor’s Arsenal,
		Emperor’s Vehicles,
		Central Supply Catalog,
		Starships,
		Imperial Squadrons,
		Milieu Zero,
		First Survey,
		Milieu Zero Campaign,
 		Pocket Empires,
		Psionics Institutes,
		Naval Architect’s Manual,
		Alien Archive,
		Anomalies,
		The Annililik Run,
		Missions of State,
		A Long Way Home,
		Gateway,
		JTAS 25
		JTAS 26

	This notice does not affect goods received in the distribution channel prior
to April 30, 1998. If you have any questions, for further information, or for
clarification, please contact Marc Miller, 309-827-5534.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 11:45:22 -0700
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Re: Atlas of the Imperium

Thank you for the offer, but  I've already made arrangements to buy a copy
from another TML list member.

douglas

E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller
IMTU tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls
The early bird gets the worm, BUT
   the second mouse gets the cheese!
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Friday, July 17, 1998 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: Atlas of the Imperium


>Douglas Glatz wrote:
>>
>> Does anyone have a copy, or a line on a copy, for sale?
>>
>> douglas
>
>Yep, I have a copy, I also now have an el-cheepo scanner, and no it's
>not for sale. How else may I help?
>
>Jim
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 12:22:19 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Old Gaming SYStems

>From: Richard Hough
...
>Ah yes, Aftermath. Or as our old game group used to call it; Role-Playing
>for Accountants. I can't think of it without a wry smile of amusement. The
...
>run using the full rules was between 8 combatants. Unfortunately, it
>included a slingshot and a laser rifle, so it took about 2 days of constant
>play to complete.
...

  You seem to have unresolved issues with this system (hmm, was Bushido
much better?). I suppose this means that I haven't got much hope of 
trading you my copy for something useful, er, more current?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 15:47:29 -0400
From: "Ed Leland" <eleland@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming SYStems

I don't remember having those sorts of problems with either Aftermath or
Bushido.  Then again, my GM was part of the original playtest group for both
games, and Bob Charette would come down and guest GM once in a while.  The
rules can be completely opaque if the author is there to tell you what he
meant to say.  :)

Ed Leland
eleland@gte.net


>>From: Richard Hough
>...
>>Ah yes, Aftermath. Or as our old game group used to call it; Role-Playing
>>for Accountants. I can't think of it without a wry smile of amusement. The
>...
>>run using the full rules was between 8 combatants. Unfortunately, it
>>included a slingshot and a laser rifle, so it took about 2 days of
constant
>>play to complete.
>...
>From Steven Hudson:
>  You seem to have unresolved issues with this system (hmm, was Bushido
>much better?). I suppose this means that I haven't got much hope of
>trading you my copy for something useful, er, more current?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 13:00:27 +0000
From: suzd@pop.goodnet.com
Subject: Re: Revenge of the Son of Traveller Chat

> I am willing to accept on faith that Suzette _might_ want to hide from
> Stu.  I am, however, somewhat puzzled as to why she might wish to hide
> from the $4.37 in small change.  Can anyone enlighten me?

Bad pun on the last name.  We're Dollars, you see and we have two 
young children... our 'small change' as it were :)

Suz

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 16:12:04 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Imperial Squadrons

What exactly does Imperial Squadrons offer in the way of usable material,
and what is it exactly?

Thanks!

Kurt Feltenberger

“We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a
habit.”
- --- Aristotle ---

mailto:kurt@blazenet.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 16:35:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mathew Harelick <matth@CYBERNEX.NET>
Subject: Referee Created Sectors ?

It scares me that someone needs referee created sectors to create
his / her own game.


Matthew S. Harelick
http://www2.cybernex.net/~matth
matth@cybernex.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 16:53:00 -0400
From: warmind@juno.com (james a clem)
Subject: Re: Referee Created Sectors ?

On Fri, 17 Jul 1998 16:35:56 -0400 (EDT) Mathew Harelick
<matth@CYBERNEX.NET> writes:
>
>It scares me that someone needs referee created sectors to create
>his / her own game.
>
>


Hmmmmm?  Is that regarding non canon campaigns, or what?  Please expand
on that comment.


Jim A. Clem, B.S.E.
CEO and Founder, Diasporan Industries, Inc.
www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081/
Traveller Geek Code tc+ tm !tn tt t4+ ru+() ge++ !3i jt au (+) st ls(+)
pi+ he++ merc++ dt+++
GM:  The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 15:56:43 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Referee Created Sectors ?

On 07/17/98 at 04:35 PM,  Mathew Harelick <matth@CYBERNEX.NET> said:

>It scares me that someone needs referee created sectors to create his
>/ her own game.

Why does that scare you Mathew?

Eris,
    who creates his own sectors to run his own games
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 20:56:04 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Traveller In Pyramid

The Dashgad series is T4, but pretty much useable with any system.

That help any?

MJD

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 17:17:13 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Referee Created Sectors ? 

> It scares me that someone needs referee created sectors to create
> his / her own game.

Mind if I ask how you came to this conclusion?  Back in 'The Days', way the 
hell back before Supplement 3, a *LOT* of us refs generated our own sectors 
because we *HAD* to.  The only things in JTAS were individual world writeups.  
Some of us hacked the source materials, some of us just threw them into the 
subsector as the next stop for the party.

Keven
- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 17:34:09 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Area of effect

In the old High Guard and MT combat rules there were conversions to use
starship weapons as artillery or ortillery.  My question is simple:  In the
new T4 FF&S2 rules, how do you determine the area of effect for these
weapons?  Specificaly, the meson gun blast area and the particle
accelerator blast area.

Thanks!

Kurt Feltenberger

“We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a
habit.”
- --- Aristotle ---

mailto:kurt@blazenet.net

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 10:04:38 +1200
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Distance Formula

>I remember wayyy back when, there were discussions on how to
>calculate the number of parsecs between systems.  Does anyone
>have a good formula for this?  It is more subtle than I thought...


If you're talking about on a 3D map then the formula is
Square root (x^2+y^2+z^2)
That is, the square root of the sum of the x, y, and z co-ordinates squared.

On the classic traveller 2D map, count the hexes ;)

Cheers,
 Anson.

Don't believe a word your Grandfather says, he's been classified
grade A psychotic. You can see it from the hole in his head, a saner
man would have used a bigger gun.

IMTU: tc+ tm tn++ !t4 !tg tt+ to ru ge+ !3i c- jt+ au ls+ pi+ ta++ he++

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 12:20:47 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: [none]

Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) Writes
>Actually, he had a Star Trek game (you played it with "ship counters"
>that were 4" squares on a *large* area of floor!). It wasn't authorized
>and he had to change the name of the game, races, and many weapons
>rather quickly. I have a Xerox of the old rules around here somewhere.
>
Actually, that was Star Fleet Battle Manual by Zocchi and Kurtic; Still in
print as of 2 years ago. THe "Rework" was Alien Space Battle Manual;
compatable, and definitely not ST, it was a playable game system.
Gamescience was liscenced by Franz Joseph Designs, not Paramount. After
their disaster trying to force Task Force to stop Star Fleet Battles (the
court ORDERED paramount to liscence TFG/ADB, as subliscencing was assumed
to be allowed unless expliucitely forbidden when FJD got liscened by Desilu
and GR). So, Paramount basically ignored the otyher FJD liscened game.
Latest printing I've seen of SFBM includes the same disclaimer as SFB:
"Some elements are (C)1990 by Paramount Pictures Corporation, and are used
with permission."

Combining Alien Space Battle Manual with SFBM, one gets the ability to take
the "Standard Trek Ships" (Fed DD, SC, DN, CA, TT) versus  a wide variety
of opponents, in a simple and playable system. But by no means was this
system anywhere even close to roleplaying.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 12:51:32 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re Tankers

>>>>Both use 1000Td fuel shuttles.
>>>
>>>How many? How long does it take a tanker to refuel?
>>>
>>
>>5 each.
>
>It must take a hell of a long time for the 400,000 T tanker to refuel.

12 hours to purify.Only 5 hours to fill up. [FS]

>>In traveller terms, since Ron's (a contraction of squadRON) are ships of a
>>single mission type,
>
>I thought a squadron was a number of similar ships PLUS their escorts
>grouped together for administrative purposes.
>
Depends on which sources you read... MT Sources are so stated, but some CT
sources are based upon Similar Ships of the line. (Supplement 9 makes NO
reference to auxillaries and escorts being in CruRons or BatRons, but does
mention that A BatRon can be composed of Battle Riders and their tenders.)

I will now look up Squadron in Library Data: I find no References to
Squadron, DesRon, CruRon, BatRon, or similar squadron designations. [supps
8 & 11]

Canon is a tricky thing; Supp 9 says 4-8 ships of a class in a CruRon;
FSotSI says many more ships, PLUS ESCORTS. perhaps the problem becomes one
of an obvious change of environment during/after the 5FW.

Spinward Marches Campaign gives us a look at a Battle Squadron: the 154th
Battle Rider Squadron. 1x 300KTd Carrier, carrying 200x 50Td fighters AND
7x 20KTd Battle Riders; the "Escort Division" consists of 7x 5KTd escorts.

OTU Canon is lacking in detail. Sources are not compatable as to numbers
(see my previous post for the MT numbers.


William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 10:13:47 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Referee Created Sectors ?

Date sent:      	Fri, 17 Jul 1998 16:35:56 -0400 (EDT)
From:           	Mathew Harelick <matth@CYBERNEX.NET>

> It scares me that someone needs referee created sectors to create
> his / her own game.

Be afraid, be very afraid

I assume that the work involved in creating your own sector is what is worrying 
you. The trick is to start small, generate a single subsector and detail one or 
two worlds; as the game progresses you detail a few more. After awhile the 
subsector will seem to take on a life of its own and it actually starts helping 
you in the work. Then after another while, you create an ajoining subsector. 
Detailing this will be easier as you already have a sketch of the region from the 
other subsector. And so on and so on and before you know it you've got your 
very own referee generated sector. It is a lot of work, but it is also very 
"rewarding".

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 15:18:31 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Revenge of the Son of Traveller Chat

PPPBBBBBBbbbbbbbbttttt! oh damn, _another_ keyboard drowns!

arrrggghhh! Suz, you should by law have to send e-mail in advance
warning of bad puns like that so we can move computers to high ground,
get small children out of the room, and steel ourselves///

Worse, I _should_ have seen it coming! ;-)


- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 16:34:23 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: late 3I naval org. Don't discount the Scouts!

At 02:35 pm 7/17/98 -0400, you wrote:
>[snip Impy Fleet analysis...Conclusion; Impy Fleet is BIG]
>
>>Not counting system fleets, which may add another 1E9 or so in
tonnage. [SWAG]
>
>What's [SWAG] mean?

	Scientific Wild Assed Guess--much more accurate than the Wild Assed
Guesses made by non-scientists/engineers ...
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 16:36:26 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller and Imperium Games II

At 02:39 pm 7/17/98 EDT, you wrote:
>I have just learned that Imperium is offering goods (T4 Traveller
materials)
>in payment of its outstanding debts to various writers. I gave them
the

	Interesting. I didn't even get the courtesy of that offer. Guess I
just wasn't fussing loud enough.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 19:19:53 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Does anyone know Joel Pratt? (sorry about getting off topic)

To anyone on the TML:

Does anyone know a Mr. Joel Pratt at jpratt@ucla.edu? I need to get in contact
with him, but I'm not getting any returns on my E mail. If you know him, can
you ask him to E mail me at sethkimmel@aol.com. Thanks for the help, and sorry
about getting off topic.

Seth

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 15:03:37 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re: StarTrek Games and Task systems and game feel.

>
>> Star Trek, the RPG. FASA, Two editions, both in the 1980's. Percentile
>> system, skill based. Not bad, but few tips on actually PLAYING the game.
>> Many decent supplements, lots of horrible art. Fasa can write, but they
>> sure can find the WORST B&W art in the industry...
>
>Ya, the chargen in this game is excellent, very much like Traveller in
>which you  can decide much of your character's prior history before
>playing.  Downside:  I found making characters much more fun than the
>actual game.
>
>Also, their was a TNG Season One supplement but it was horrible.  Many
>of the ship details contradicted what was in the show itself.

That was intended to be used with Fasa's Next Generation Officer's Manual.
The TNGOM was much better. But those two products may have cost FASA their
liscence... according to Several distributors (as quoted by First Epire
games, and in two cases, told to me directly by the distributors while I
was at FEG, as they asked to speak to the customer...) FASA was buying back
ALL STRPG products from the distributor's shelves due to having lost their
liscence over the TNG materials. Having hear this personally from two
distributors, and through FEG from 4 more, and having seen indicia pointing
that way in several correspondences with FASA, and having heard of the
ramifications through TFG's sources, I tend to giv it some creedence.

As for Prime Directive (TFG), it is a fun system, if you play it in a
ST:TOS mode of thought, crossed liberally with the mentality of the
"A-Team" [from the show of the same name].

Which brings me around to a traveller issue: The feel of a game system
directly relates to the task system and it's effects on realism. STRPG
suffered from a poorly deifned task system... and so the feel varied widely
from group to group. PD has a well defined task system, lending towards
fast, furious, action-packed, but unrealistically cinematic resolutions.
T4, likewise, tended towards cinematic situations. MT tended towards a more
subtle "Cinema Verite" feel... not violating easy  suspension of disbelief,
but with some problems. TNE, IMHO, lended towards gung-ho action-adventure.
Since, according to MWM himself, T4/M0 is essentially "TNE without Virus",
the relationship in feel of the profferred task systems seems to fit.
GURPS, IME & IMHO, tends towards a more gritty, slightly cienatic feel, but
definitely in the believable range, it will affect the feel of games run
under G:T.


Now, the real question for the list: How much of the "feel" of a game is
task system, how much is CGen, how much is Flavor Text/Background, and how
much is GM's perogative (with the acknowledgement that a Good GM with house
rules can totally change a system's feel and/or scope...)???

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 15:11:20 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: RE: GM Preserves

>Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 23:54:56 -0800
>From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
>Subject: Re: Been Playin' Since
>
>I have been playing Traveller since the summer of 1978 (two thirds of my
>life...) but did not really get into Traveller until 1979 when this cool
>new supplement called Supplement 3, The Spinward Marches came out, prior
>to that point you had to make up your own sectors (or use the Regina
>Subsector from The Kinnunir).  I remember making up my own subsector &
>having to draw my own hex paper to put it on.
>
I was lucky... my parents have owned a photocopier since I was about 7...
and I've always been able to use ones at one of their jobs when theirs was
not working. OTOH, God Bless Kinko's for making cheap self-serve
photocopies a standard.

>I sometimes wonder if the Traveller universe lost something when they
>took away the space for referee created sectors.  I am glad that GDW
>kept Foreven Sector as a referee preserve & I hope that SJG does the
>same.

I, despite many years of Friendship with Peter (Incidentally, Peter & I
became acuainted due to traveller), and having many similar attitudes on
traveller, WHOLE HEARTEDLY DISAGREE on the "preserves". I'd like to see
official sectors for the whole OTU. I think any "Preserves should be
limited to subsector sizes... if even that large.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #668
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Saturday, July 18 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 669



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re Ship Design/Computers
swag
Re: Area of effect
Re: [OT] Re Leading Edge / B5
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Re: Old Gaming Systems
Traveller In Pyramid
Merchant Ships
Re: TML Digest #666
Re: TML Digest #666 
Re: Merchant Ships
Re: Traveller and Imperium Games
Re: late 3I naval org. Don't discount the Scouts!
Re: Re Ship Design/Computers
[none]
Re: swag
M:IW something a little different

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 15:32:36 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re Ship Design/Computers

>
>Firstly my own comments:
>	It would probably be easier to load if it was box shaped instead
>	of speherical, especially with standard cargo containers.
>	I think the hull is too thin, probably should be 10[29] not 0[20].
>Then
>	"It needs 3 computers"

The rules say it does in all prior editions... I've not digested FF&S2 yet.

>This depends on what you think the computer is in Traveller.
>I assume that it is a spread out set of linked control systems with
>little bits of dedicated processing power for each, so losing one bit
>of the system doesn't affect the rest. Of course if the bridge is out
>of action you need to put people at each individual console which could
>be difficult with a crew of 3.
>Perhaps a second computer, although you should be able to have lots of
>redundancy and ability to fuction with partial availability even with
>just the main computer.
>If anyone points a "gun" at this ship it might as well surrender, so why
>bother with 3 comps to survive battle damage.
>Besides, it has an addition flight comp.

OK, by FF&S1, a ship (assumed jump drive) needs 3 computers. One is a
operations machine, one is a maintenance machine, one is the jump machine.
The Ops and Jump machines could be Flight computer models.... but, unless
FF&S2 has changed this, the Maintenance computer cannot be, so lacking this
third computer, maintenance times are not reduced by the computer multiple.
The FF&S1 rules also imply that the Jump computer is also the back-up for
the ops computer.

And, IMTU, the FLT model for ops could't handle jump software, and the jump
computer being a FLT model couldn't handle the ops programming. Same
physical stats, different needs. The Ops FLT computer is distributed
somewhat, whereas a STD computer would be a core plus distribution. a Jump
FLT computer would be a core and distribution to the jump drive only. A
Maintenance computer requires distribution AND a core, thus eliminating a
FLT model (IMO, the FLT model is EITHER a distributed net OR a core unit.)

One thing I feel FF&S3 will need is more specialized computer types: FLT,
Maint, JMP, DATA.
IMTU, I allow these already. The Std is a COre with distribution and
multi-role configuration, resulting in massive redundancy.
FLT: as per FF&S, allows N-space operations only, and only in the primary
environments of the vehicle.
JMP: a dedicated Jump Course Processor. Same cost/Space/mass/power as a FLT
computer.
Data/Library: A dedicated data processing unit. Primarily a core-based
system, with smart terminals. Sorta like most current UNIX Miniframe
systems. Multi-station Multi-user capable. Not wired into ship systems....
Cost/Power same as FLT models, space and wieght DOUBLE that of FLT models.
Maint: Half cost/mass/space, same power as a STD model.
Smart Station: Same space/mass/power as a FLT model. Asset = 3x Model
Number in primary skill, asset 2x Model Number in 3 related skills. Extra
skills can be bought at asset 1x model number for 10% of unit cost, 2x
asset at 50% of unit cost. Cost as per STD model. Mass/Space: as per FLT
model. Power 2x FLT model.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 10:57:09 +1200
From: Steve Rennell <wulf@sea.southern.co.nz>
Subject: swag

> >Not counting system fleets, which may add another 1E9 or so in tonnage.
> >[SWAG]

Peter Brenton asked: 
> What's [SWAG] mean?

I think it's "Silly Wild Assed Guess" or similar.

Steve

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 19:59:05 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Area of effect

If FF and S doesn't resolve that; there is another way.... The original
Striker rules also give conversions and are very specific. I would asume that
once you get the Striker equivilent; it would be easier to convert to FF and
S.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 17:17:25 -0700
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
Subject: Re: [OT] Re Leading Edge / B5

SD Mooney wrote:
...
> PPPS (OT) Anyone out there tried the B5 CGS board game?

Avoid it!  It really stinks and I haven't met anyone with a different
opinion (that's not saying that someone can't enjoy it.)

Kristian

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 19:08:32 -0500
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@fastlane.net>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

At 01:02 AM 7/16/1998 -0400, GypsyComet wrote:
> I started RPGs the same month that Steve Jackson's TFT:Wizard appeared from
>Metagaming. Traveller took another year or so. Back then most of my buying
was
>determined by the reviews in Space Gamer...
>
I remember The Fantasy Trip and SJ's Melee & Wizards.  Fun and very simple
games.  Just starting to get into the bigger campaigns when Metagaming went
under.

Jimmy Simpson
	nimrodd@fastlane.net
"Cannot say.
 Saying, I would know.
 Do not know.
 So cannot say."
		-Zathras (Babylon 5)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 22:19:58 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@fastlane.net>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Friday, July 17, 1998 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: Old Gaming Systems


>>
>I remember The Fantasy Trip and SJ's Melee & Wizards.  Fun and very simple
>games.  Just starting to get into the bigger campaigns when Metagaming went
>under.
>
I ran a very interesting and satisfying campaign using the Fantasy Trip
rules. I acually bought GURPS later, hoping it would be an expanded game
along those lines. In a way it is, but much too rules heavy it the GM lets
it be.

WARNING Funny Role-Playing story,

A friend of one of the members of our play group decided to sit in on one of
the FT games. His primary previous experience was with D&D. Now the Fantasy
Trip games I ran had a more rapier and dagger flare than the armour heavey
D&D he was used too, but he insisted that he wanted a full suit of plate
armour.

Later in the game the party found them selves in a running battle with a
small group od ork guards. Needles to say as all of the unarmored PC's were
in fast pursuit of the orks this poor guy was turning purple trying to catch
up! After a couple of turns he alternated dropping off pieces of armour and
running to catch up! By the time he finally caught up to the party he was
down to his skivvies, out of breath, and all of the mosters were dispatched,
the rest of the party was sitting around cleaning their weapons and counting
"retrieved" loot!

His next question was whither there was someplace he could sell or trade his
armour and bastard sword for a rapier, brace of daggers and some leather.

Mike Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com
"Help Wanted: Telepath, You know where to apply!"  unknown, bumper sticker.

------------------------------

Date: 17 Jul 1998 00:00:00 +0000
From: lars@orplid.shnet.org (Lars Becker)
Subject: Traveller In Pyramid

Lars Becker <lars@orplid.shnet.org> wrote:

 > und ich dachte, [...]

Sorry, my fault. This message shouldn't have appeared on the list.

- - Lars.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 02:40:49
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Merchant Ships

>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
>Subject: A traditional Vilani Merchant
>
>Sharik Giidada, Dashami Lashas class Merchant (FF&S v2)
>Designed by Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
>
>Statistics
> Tons: 1000 Td (SL Thick Disc Supersonic)
> Crew: 10/14
> Cargo: 600 Td (3 Large Cargo Hatches, Handling: 1 x 350 ton)

> Cost: 169.689 MCr (25% bulk discount)
> 
>Performance
> 1 Jump (100 Td/pc fuel)
> 
> 1 Power (Fusion: 500MW, 0.08yr)
> 0 Battery
> 

Assuming this thing has the spare surface area, you could take the power
plant up to 600 MW (extra MCr 10, 50m3, 200t), increase the jump drive to
jump 2 (140m3,MCr42, 420t) and put in an extra jump worth of fuel
(1400m3,100t).

Cargo falls to 485 dtons, cost increases by MCr 39 to MCr 209 or so and
maneuver performance stays about the same (mass has actually fallen by 680t).

The doubling in jump capability takes it up to Ziru Sirkaa Fleet Standard,
and roughly halves the time it takes to get to worlds more than one parsec
apart.

If you use the local currency rules in Striker, TLB Starport A credits
trade at 0.5 to the Imperial Credit, taking the sticker cost of the jump-2
version down to MCr 104.5 in TL15 Imperial Credits. The jump-1 version
would cost IMCr 85. Incidentally, either design could easily be built at
Porozolo (Spinward Marches 2715) or Gram (SM 1223).

I'd say these things should be all over the Marches, in the process driving
down freight rates to well under ICr 1000 per displacement ton.

>Andrew etc.
>  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
>  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
>IMTU Code
>  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
>  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge
>

>From: Phil Kitching <Philk@btinternet.com>
>Subject: Re Economic Design Study #3.6 (was Making profits half full)
>
>I have received several comments about this design study for an
>ultra cheap merchant ship.
>This was why I put up a design study, rather than a documented design.
>
>I'd like to make an "in my opinion" reply to some of the points made.
>I'm not going to quote each one because that is too many digests to go
>through, so appologies if I misquote anyone.
>
>Firstly my own comments:
>	It would probably be easier to load if it was box shaped instead
>	of speherical, especially with standard cargo containers.
>	I think the hull is too thin, probably should be 10[29] not 0[20].

Why ? It isnt as if it's designed to be shot at *grin*

>Then
>	"It needs 3 computers"
>
>This depends on what you think the computer is in Traveller.
>I assume that it is a spread out set of linked control systems with
>little bits of dedicated processing power for each, so losing one bit
>of the system doesn't affect the rest. Of course if the bridge is out
>of action you need to put people at each individual console which could
>be difficult with a crew of 3.
>Perhaps a second computer, although you should be able to have lots of
>redundancy and ability to fuction with partial availability even with
>just the main computer.
>If anyone points a "gun" at this ship it might as well surrender, so why
>bother with 3 comps to survive battle damage.
>Besides, it has an addition flight comp.

Computers are a bit funny in Traveller. Careful looking at Bruce's sensor
rules indicate that quite a bit of 'sensor' volume and mass is actually
back-end computer processing, which could be one explaination for the crash
in computer costs vis a vis High Guard etc. A TL11 CM 0.5/CP 2 computer
only costs about KCr 70, so it really doesnt add much to total system cost
to put in two redundant computers, just in case one goes out of warranty at
an inopportune time.

>
>	"No purification plant"
>
>The economics are out here.
>With a 0.5G drive it takes 6 hours to get to 100 dia for a running jump
>(actually longer, because it cannot accelerate for the last hour whilst
>the jump drive warms up. (1G is 4 hours, assuming planet size A)
>This is why I felt it was a reasonable cost saving.
>To get to a gas giant takes over 1 week so it does not cost in.
>Besides, with only subsonic streamlining, you canot refuel there.
>You could ocean refuel, but there are questions as to would high tech
>governments allow it, so that leaves wilderness refuelling.
>This ship is not designed for wilderness trading.

I completely agree.

>
>	"Only 1.08G"
>
>Solution, boost the CG and reduce the thrusters until it can take off.
>In reality, with the sort of regular freight operation this ship works,
>it would be more cost effective to drop the CG and use shuttles based on
>the planet (size the ship so that all the destinations add up to several
>ships per day and this works). The streamlining was only an afterthought.

Ditto.

>
>	"Why an AEMS"
>
>Because it is quite cheap and it was there (ie it was on the spreadsheet
>and I did not delete it).

IMO AEMS arent cheap - the smallest possible TL14 AEMS still costs KCr 250,
which is signifigant. The smallest TL12 AEMS costs MCr 1.25, which means an
extra KCr 5 per monthly payment - enough for quite a retirement fund when
added up over a 40 year operating life.

>
>	"Needs another 20MW to run jump and life support"
>
>Sniff. And I spent so much time trying to get this right :-(
>I thought it had enough power since all the sensors can be turned off in
>jumpspace. Of course, I probably turned off the computer as well.

20 MW of power isnt a huge deal economically. Power tends to cost MCr 0.1
per megawatt at TL8, and gets rapidly cheaper after TL12.

>
>	"Where do you get 417 tons of cargo"
>
>As was observed, not from the standard trade tables.
>The point of my original message was that the trade tables do not apply
>to real Traveller merchants using proper trade fleets.
>The point of this design is to refute the arguement that Cr1,000/dt and
>Cr10,000/high passage don't pay and must be increased - they do,
>especially if the infrastructure is available to ensure that
>the ships are full (>80%).
>Low passage is a different problem, because the rules say it exists but
>economically it does not seem to work and it tends to kill its passengers.

Yeah, and all that bulky freezing equipment takes up space that could be
used for two-to-a-bunk fourth class passengers.

As far as I can see, there are no limits to the amount of speculative cargo
you can buy, and that is where the real money is anyway.

>
>IMHO, PCs do not play "proper merchants", they play "merchant adventurers".
>That is why they get their own set of trade tables.
>

Does anyone want to help me write a 'Merchant Venturer' campaign set, based
in the post- Fifth Frontier War Spinward Marches ?

I am thinking having the players in charge of a Recollet or similar
high-jump freighter, and have a series of linked adventures. I like the
idea of a trade expidition to the Islands Clusters myself (think of the
profit margin in exporting TL15 military gear there ...).

>Besides, if all the crew take a percentage profit instead of their usual
>salary, then the free trader has a perfectly good business plan, even
>with normal freight rates.
>("5% of nothing is nothing, we want 10% :-)

Salaries arent the dominant cost for a Traveller merchant ship - 5 crew at
KCr 5 a month each is KCr 300 a year, while 4% interest on a MCr 50 ship
loan is KCr 2000 a year.

I'd say crews working on a percentage of audited profits is actually more
normal than the 'vanilla' Traveller financing package. A 90/10 split
between the financiers and the crew sounds about right for me. 


>Phil Kitching


Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 10:28:42 +0400
From: Andy Long <andyl@icluae.co.ae>
Subject: Re: TML Digest #666

I suppose it was inevitable. TML Digest number 666 caused the office's
MS Exchange server to choke, and when I tried to strip the posts into
HTML, THAT went wrong as well.

I now return to your scheduled service

Andy

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Computers Ltd;
A.G. Long, c/o ICL	Phone:	+971 (2) 335200/338066
PO Box 7237			Fax:	+971 (2) 338724
Abu Dhabi
United Arab Emirates
================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 02:51:40 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: TML Digest #666 

> I suppose it was inevitable. TML Digest number 666 caused the office's
> MS Exchange server to choke, and when I tried to strip the posts into
> HTML, THAT went wrong as well.

Heheh.  Ain't that the way it goes?

> I now return to your scheduled service

Keven
- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 20:25:44 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Merchant Ships

Date sent:      	Sat, 18 Jul 1998 02:40:49
From:           	Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>

> >Sharik Giidada, Dashami Lashas class Merchant (FF&S v2)
> >Designed by Andrew Moffatt-Vallance

> Assuming this thing has the spare surface area, you could take the power
> plant up to 600 MW (extra MCr 10, 50m3, 200t), increase the jump drive to
> jump 2 (140m3,MCr42, 420t) and put in an extra jump worth of fuel
> (1400m3,100t)

> Cargo falls to 485 dtons, cost increases by MCr 39 to MCr 209 or so and
> maneuver performance stays about the same (mass has actually fallen by 680t).

> The doubling in jump capability takes it up to Ziru Sirkaa Fleet Standard,
> and roughly halves the time it takes to get to worlds more than one parsec
> apart..

Its quite doable, you only have to bump the power plant to 504 Mw, and it pays 
to push the computer up one level (otherwise you need two extra engineers) 
and the cargo only drops to 489 Td, cost goes to MCr 206 (assuming a 25% 
discount). But the ship ceases to make a profit even at 100% capacity. 
However it would make a good subsidised merchant.

> If you use the local currency rules in Striker, TLB Starport A credits
> trade at 0.5 to the Imperial Credit, taking the sticker cost of the jump-2
> version down to MCr 104.5 in TL15 Imperial Credits. The jump-1 version
> would cost IMCr 85. Incidentally, either design could easily be built at
> Porozolo (Spinward Marches 2715) or Gram (SM 1223).

If you use the local currency rules and assume that all freight is paid for in ICr, 
then the jump 2 version can run at a profit at 80% (even without the 25% class 
discount I pumped into the design).

> I'd say these things should be all over the Marches, in the process driving
> down freight rates to well under ICr 1000 per displacement ton.

The design was intended as a Vilani design from the Interstellar Wars era, but I 
think it will make economic sense in any milieu. I think this is one of my more 
useful ships :*>.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 23:30:27 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller and Imperium Games

In mail you write:

> For general distribution.
>
>         The license held by Imperium Games to publish the Traveller
> role-playing game expired on December 31, 1997 and has not been
> renewed. That license included a provision which would have allowed
> Imperium to continue to sell the Traveller titles in its inventory
> provided certain conditions were met.
>         Imperium has not met those conditions and on April 30, 1998 Far
> Future notified Imperium to immediately discontinue sale of all
> materials produced under the Imperium Games license agreement.
>         The range of materials published for Traveller by Imperium
> Games is unlicensed and cannot be sold without a new license from Far
> Future. There is no immediate prospect of a license which would allow
> that to take place.

So what's the eventual disposition of the materials if they can't get a
license? I hope they won't just be destroyed. But I can see where just
giving them to you might not go over very well either.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 23:32:29 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: late 3I naval org. Don't discount the Scouts!

In mail you write:

> [snip Impy Fleet analysis...Conclusion; Impy Fleet is BIG]
>
>>Not counting system fleets, which may add another 1E9 or so in tonnage. 
> [SWAG]
>
> What's [SWAG] mean?

Scientific Wild Ass Guess. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 23:34:08 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re Ship Design/Computers

In mail you write:

> Data/Library: A dedicated data processing unit. Primarily a core-based
> system, with smart terminals. Sorta like most current UNIX Miniframe
> systems. Multi-station Multi-user capable. Not wired into ship systems....
> Cost/Power same as FLT models, space and wieght DOUBLE that of FLT models.
> Maint: Half cost/mass/space, same power as a STD model.

This reminds me of an interesting point brought up in a book I was
reading today. 

The hereo is going thru pilot training and the class is told that they
are going to have to use hard copy manuals for working on ship's
systems. One of the trainees asks why. 

	"Think about it, Lieutenant. How can you figure out how to
repair the power system if the information you need can only be
accessed thru a system powered by the ship and you don't have power,
which was the problem to begin with?"

	"Oh..."

:-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 13:17:35 +0100
From: "Alex Ferrie" <daishan@malkier.demon.co.uk>
Subject: [none]

unsubscribe traveller

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 05:27:14 -0700
From: "Suz Dollar" <suzd@goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: swag

> Peter Brenton asked: 
> > What's [SWAG] mean?
> 
> I think it's "Silly Wild Assed Guess" or similar.
> 
> Steve

Awww, gee, I'm disappointed. Knowing this list, I'd assumed it was 
'Sealed with a Gauss'....

;>

Suz

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 01:40:25 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: M:IW something a little different

This is a representation of one of my favourites from "Imperium". It also provides 
some hints to the enigmatic character of Sharik Yangila, the highly unorthodox 
Vilani governor who won the 4th Interstellar War. As usually cudos must go to 
Andy Akin for his wonderful spreadsheet.

Dingir, Galamlur Type 1 class Attack Cruiser (FF&S v2)
Designed by Andrew Moffatt-Vallance

Statistics
 Tons: 50000 Td (SL Med Disc Hypersonic)
 Crew: 2176/2412
 Cargo: 36 Td (1 Small Cargo Hatch, Handling: 4 x 134 ton)
 Volume: 700000m3
 Passengers High/Med: 10/30
 Cost: 294008.346 MCr
 Mass (L/C): 1217043t/1205764t
 Passengers Low: 0
 Maintenance Points: 43305
 Dimensions: 164.1m x 164.1m x 33m
 Troops/Science: 0/0
 Tech Level: 11
 Size: 10
 Frozen Watch: 0

Electronics
 Controls: Dynamic, Standard automation. 15 x FibComp (CM: 0.4 CP: 2.5).
           Bridge.
 Communications: 1 x Dir Radio (1,000AU, 0.2MW). 1 x Laser (1,000AU, 
0MW).
 Sensors: 1 x Sci PEMS (13.5 [16mkm] Sci, 0.02MW).
          1 x Sci AEMS (12 [1.6mkm] Sci, 50MW).
          2 x Sci LIDAR (14.5 [500kkm] Sci, 1MW).
 Survey/Science:
 ECM: 1 x Area. Jammer (11, 312.5MW). 1 x Decp. Jammer (12, 6.25MW).
      1 x Pas. Jammer (15, 2.5MW). 1 x Decoy Disp. (2 units ea.).
      1 x Act. Decoy Disp. (2 units ea.).
      1 x LIDAR. Decoy Disp. (3 units ea.).
 Signatures: Vis:-0.5, IR:1.5 (1.5 at 168028MW, 1 at 18584MW), Act:0, Neu:2,
             Grav:2

Weaponry
 20 x Heavy Laser Turret (+3) 1/6-4-2-0 [4,800/20-11-5-3] (LR)
 4 x Light Laser Bay (+3) 1/7-7-6-4 [4,200/47-47-36-18] (LR)
 6 x Missile Bays Auto 21/42 (Mag: 168 MFD: 500,000km)
       w/189 Cmd DL 1d6/2 [61] 8.3G/11 500,000km
 3 x Missile Auto 6/30 (Mag: 84 MFD: 500,000km)
       w/90 Ind DL 1d6/3 [113] 6G/8
 1 x Heavy Spinal PA (+3) 2/11-11-11-11 [1,100/654-654-654-654] (LR)

Performance
 2 Jump (5000 Td/pc fuel)
 5/5 Maneuver (Thruster: 151200MW)
 1/1 Contra-grav (16464MW)
 4858kph/4871kph Atmosphere (Cruise: 3644kph/3653kph)
 7 Power (Fusion: 185840MW, 0.25yr)
 0 Battery
 10497.8 Fuel (Scoop: 5 Purif: 72, 86MW)
 0/2428/24/0/0 Accomodations (2502 x Sanitary Fittings)
 32526 Person/Weeks Life Support (Type: Extended, Normal Food [Stored])
 2 G-Comp (GTanks: 417 Passenger, 2035 Crew)
 0 ESA
 8 Sandcasters (AV: 113 Cans: 16)
 0 Damper Turrets
 0 Damper Screen
 0 Meson Screen
 0 Force Field
 0 Gravtics
 90 [572] Armour, 53 Structure

Features
 500 x Decontamination Airlock
 4 x Docking Umbilical
 4 x Electronic Shop (6 Td ea.)
 4 x Machine Shop (10 Td ea.)
 6 x Sickbay (8 Td ea.)
 1 x Ship's locker (25 Td ea.)
 50 x Prisoner Capacity (0/0/50)
 1 x Armoury (2 Td ea.)
 6 x Gym (2.5 Td ea.)
 1 x Ordinary Galley (Cap: 50)
 10 x Full Galley (Cap: 250)

Small Craft
 1 x Spacious Hanger (100 Td, 2 hatches)

Backups
 Drives:
 Screens:
 Communications: 3 x Dir Radio (1,000AU). 3 x Laser (1,000AU).
 Sensors: 2 x Sci PEMS (13.5 [16mkm] Sci). 2 x Sci AEMS (12 [1.6mkm] Sci).
          12 x Sci LIDAR (14.5 [500kkm] Sci).
 Survey/Science:
 ECM: 1 x Area. Jammer (11). 1 x Decp. Jammer (12). 1 x Pas. Jammer (15).
 Power & Fuel:

Crew Details
 9 x Helm
 1 x Electronics
 1637 x Engineering
 199 x Maintenaince
 48 x Gunnery
 8 x Screens
 22 x Flight
 56 x Troops
 330 x Command
 82 x Steward
 20 x Medical

The Type 1 Galamlur (offensive patrolship, usually translated as attack
cruiser) stands apart from virtually all other Vilani designs of the
Interstellar Wars era. Also known as the Dingir class, it was designed as an
emulation of the Terran Ships of the Line at the behest of the remarkable
Diikagkarunii (Provincial Governor) Sharik Yangila. The design itself was an
interesting combination of Terran and Vilani design philosophies. The most
striking features were the spinal particle accelerator (a weapon found on no
other Vilani design), and the extended endurance (13 Terran weeks as against
the Vilani standard of 4 weeks) and use of a fully closed loop life support
system (copied from ancient pre-jump Vilani sublight designs). All of these
features were inspired by the Terran Ships of the Line, while the class still
retained the classic blocky rounded hull form, the lower level of automation
(forced by the nature of the Vilani caste system), the substanial missile
battery (though much lighter than traditional Vilani designs), and the
extensive ECM suite. Unusally for Vilani warships, the members of the class
were assigned individual names following the Terran pattern, taking their
names from Vilani worlds in the Kushuggi (Solomani Rim) sector.

Though the class represented a very interesting experiment, it was not a
fully "mature" design, having several weaknesses (the poor sandcaster
battery, relatively low powered spinal mount, the use of muliple low powered
lasers linked into "batteries" etc). Many later naval architects have
speculated on the likely evolution of the type had the Vilani perserved with
its development. However the type fell out of favour with the downfall of
Sharik Yangila during the 4th Interstellar War and further development was
abandoned (though two Type 1a prototypes were built). However the Type 1
continued to be produced in limited numbers and examples served with the
Kushuggi provincial fleet until its final defeat during the 9th War.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #669
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Saturday, July 18 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 670



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Punnery (was Re: Revenge of the Son of Traveller Chat)
Re: Revenge of the Son of Traveller Chat
Military Battlefield Sensors
Re:  Traveller-digest V1998 #667
Re: Imperial Squadrons
Re: Traveller and Imperium Games
Re: Referee Created Sectors ?
Re: Traveller and Imperium Games
Sectors reserved for referees in Supp 3. Re: Referee created sectors
Re: Referee Created Sectors ?
Re: Punnery (was Re: Revenge of the Son of Traveller Chat)
Re: Punnery (was Re: Revenge of the Son of Traveller Chat)
Re: AUCTION: MegaTraveller/DGP (Sol&As, Var&Vil, WBH, SOM, etc.)
Seeker Games
Re: Updated release schedule from SJG & GURPS Traveller HC
Re: Referee Created Sectors ?
Re: Traveller and Imperium Games
LOM & More Keith...
Uakye Transport Partners
Re: Referee Created Sectors ?
Re: LOM & More Keith... 
Re: Referee Created Sectors ? 
Off topic.  World of darkness.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 07:04:23 -0700
From: "Suz Dollar" <suzd@goodnet.com>
Subject: Punnery (was Re: Revenge of the Son of Traveller Chat)

> PPPBBBBBBbbbbbbbbttttt! oh damn, _another_ keyboard drowns!
> 
> arrrggghhh! Suz, you should by law have to send e-mail in advance
> warning of bad puns like that so we can move computers to high ground, get
> small children out of the room, and steel ourselves///
> 
> Worse, I _should_ have seen it coming! ;-)

Suz molds her face into her best exaggerated innocent expression and 
asks...

Does this mean you want me to keep the rest of the puns on the family 
name to myself? ;>

Nah... 

I may from time to time, be a day late, but I'm never a Dollar short... I am, 
however, a short Dollar.

Suz

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 07:15:19 -0700
From: "Suz Dollar" <suzd@goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Revenge of the Son of Traveller Chat

> As you know I'm not much of a "chat person", but I've got a question.

Thats a bit of an understatement, I think, Eris. ;>  
 
> What's to stop *anyone* from hosting a chat area at *anytime* on
> undernet, yahoo chat, or any other of the several chat networks out
> there?  Even *I've* set up the occasional chat area on undernet.
> 
> These rooms, of course, wouldn't always be moderated by your "unrivaled
> excellency of moderation self," ;-> but it would be a Traveller chat room.
>  Or am I missing something here?

Absolutely nothing. In fact, on Undernet, #Traveller is always there 
because it is a registered channel. Of course, unless one of the 
designated ops is around, no one will have ops, but that shouldn't be too 
much of a problem.

I'd love to see the channel used more. Just be forewarned... if you don't 
'advertise', you will have to have a great deal of patience before people 
start dropping by regularly. Once upon a time when the Small Change 
was less demanding, I practically lived there and people dropped in a lot.

Suz

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 10:47:53 -0400
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: Military Battlefield Sensors

Something I ran across in my reading that may interest the
sci-fi military tech afficionados on the list:


From "Visions: How Science Will Revolutionize the 21st Century" by
Michio Kaku  (1997, Anchor Books):

From the discussion on Microelectric Machines, kind of a middle ground 
between microelectronics and nanomachines...

"The military is also interested. They are studying MEMS called 
"surveillance dust", which can be sprayed over a battlefield. This dust,
which will hover in the air for hours, can be equipped with infra-red
detectors, radios, even poison-gas detectors, and can be used to
locate enemy positions." p270

Make the fog of war vanish with a little cloud of your own, hmm?

MEMS are already a US$2.2billion industry. The "surveillance
dust" above is technically possible today, though too expensive for
use.


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 11:04:12 EDT
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re:  Traveller-digest V1998 #667

"Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM> says:

>
>
>>Subject: Re: winmail attachments
>>
>>>Oh Goody!
>>>
>>>Two of these in one day.
>>>
>>>Please turn that "feature" off.
>>>
>>>GypsyComet
>>>(who believes that Microsoft Mail IS the new Internet Worm)


>
>I have made this offer before, and it still stands.
>
>If someone on the list starts generating winmail.dat files, notify the user
>and direct them to me.  I will make every effort to assist them in
>correcting the condition (if I can), and prevent a repitition of the
>unpleasant attitude I had to put up with while I was originally
>troubleshooting _my_ winmail.dat problem.
>
>Generally the user is not aware that they are generating the files, so
>public pronouncements without _specific_ notification_ are pretty much
>useless for anything but creating bad feelings.
>
>douglas
>
>E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
>

 My apologies for the lack of detail and short delivery. Late night, in a
hurry, wonderful mood leftover from work, etc.

In accordance with the above offer:


>>Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 14:46:36 -0500
>>From: Brian Songy <bxs3829@usl.edu>
>>Subject: Old Gaming Systems

 and

>>Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 14:54:10 -0500
>>From: Brian Songy <bxs3829@usl.edu>
>>Subject: Andynus Aikinus, Gearheadus Maximus

 which were back-to-back in the Digest, both did the winmail attachment thing,
causing the mail handler in AOL (Yes, I know it sucks) to mishandle the entire
Digest.  Andy Aikin's followup to the latter message (in the next Digest) did
not have this effect on the Mailer even though it did have MIME stuff all
through it...

 Thank you for your attention, and sorry for the repeats.

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 07:50:21 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Imperial Squadrons

At 04:12 PM 7/17/98 -0400, you wrote:
>What exactly does Imperial Squadrons offer in the way of usable material,
>and what is it exactly?

Four incredibly well written starships, that were mangled by IG.

Now that my plug is in..

The bulk of the book is a re-wrtiting of the Fifth Frontier War combat
rules to work with Pocket Empires.  Essays about naval organization,
playing naval characters, etc.

I give it a 7 out of 10.
- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
jt- au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 12:22:22 EDT
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller and Imperium Games

In a message dated 98-07-18 07:10:29 EDT, you write:

<< 
 So what's the eventual disposition of the materials if they can't get a
 license? I hope they won't just be destroyed. But I can see where just
 giving them to you might not go over very well either.
 
>>

For one thing, Imperium won't even talk to me, despite my continued calls and
faxes and emails. My notice to them came only after a long period of trying to
negotiate some sort of resolution.

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 12:22:30 EDT
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Referee Created Sectors ?

In a message dated 98-07-17 18:16:39 EDT, you write:

<< 
 I assume that the work involved in creating your own sector is what is
worrying 
 you. The trick is to start small, generate a single subsector and detail one
or 
 two worlds; as the game progresses you detail a few more. After awhile the 
 subsector will seem to take on a life of its own and it actually starts
helping 
 you in the work. Then after another while, you create an ajoining subsector. 
 Detailing this will be easier as you already have a sketch of the region from
the 
 other subsector. And so on and so on and before you know it you've got your 
 very own referee generated sector. It is a lot of work, but it is also very 
 "rewarding".
  >>

One product I want to see in T5 is a package called Faraway Sector. Provisions
for locating a sector at some point close enough to interact with Traveller's
known space, but far away enough that it isn't driven by its events.
Components would include blank sector and subsector maps, etc etc. Rules/books
would guide the refere through creating the sector, including why there are
humans there, what other minor races there are (human and non human), the
interatctions one can expect, etc.

For example, a sector may have humans who fled the Interstellar Wars, took
1,000 years to get there, and then have spent 1,000 years in development,
colonization, conflict within the sector. The current date is just about
Milieu 0, and the Imperium is 10 sectors away. 

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 10:37:47 -0700
From: Dave Strebe <strebe@intergate.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Traveller and Imperium Games

Well I don't feel so bad as they won't talk to me about product I paid for and
didn't receive,
as well as a lot of other people on the TML. Hopefully whomever publishes your
future products works out better. I am looking forward to your new rule set.

Dave

CardSharks@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 98-07-18 07:10:29 EDT, you write:
>
> <<
>  So what's the eventual disposition of the materials if they can't get a
>  license? I hope they won't just be destroyed. But I can see where just
>  giving them to you might not go over very well either.
>
> >>
>
> For one thing, Imperium won't even talk to me, despite my continued calls and
> faxes and emails. My notice to them came only after a long period of trying to
> negotiate some sort of resolution.
>
> Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 14:02:24 -0400
From: Matthew Harelick <matth@cybernex.net>
Subject: Sectors reserved for referees in Supp 3. Re: Referee created sectors

Hi:

Sorry, mistype.

I mean that it was scary that someone needed GDW to preserve sectors (the
foreven) sector for referee created subsectors.

Most of my campaign takes place in the Andromeda Galaxy and there is
no such thing as the Imperium.

I only use the Imperium when I feel lazy.

I think its scary because I find it bad to depend on the RPG industry for
supplements to be able to play game.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 10:46:39 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Referee Created Sectors ?

At 12:22 PM 7/18/98 EDT, Marc wrote:

>One product I want to see in T5 is a package called Faraway Sector.
>Provisions for locating a sector at some point close enough to interact with 
>Traveller's known space, but far away enough that it isn't driven by its 
>events.

Well, we have the official numbering at any rate.  T4.1 is dead, Long live
T5!!!

>Components would include blank sector and subsector maps, etc etc.
>Rules/books would guide the refere through creating the sector, including 
>why there are humans there, what other minor races there are (human and non 
>human), the interatctions one can expect, etc.

This would be a good product.  I could see it as a boxed set that includes
a "FFS" world builders handbook, and software to handle most of the numbers
crunching.

I've long been an advocate of the smaller campaign, a subsector or two at
most.  I like the greater detail of worlds and populations, rather than
having the planet as a stepping stone effect you get with Imperium spanning
campaigns.


- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
jt- au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 10:32:12 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Punnery (was Re: Revenge of the Son of Traveller Chat)

In mail you write:

>> PPPBBBBBBbbbbbbbbttttt! oh damn, _another_ keyboard drowns!
>> 
>> arrrggghhh! Suz, you should by law have to send e-mail in advance
>> warning of bad puns like that so we can move computers to high ground, get
>> small children out of the room, and steel ourselves///
>> 
>> Worse, I _should_ have seen it coming! ;-)
>
> Suz molds her face into her best exaggerated innocent expression and 
> asks...
>
> Does this mean you want me to keep the rest of the puns on the family 
> name to myself? ;>
>
> Nah... 
>
> I may from time to time, be a day late, but I'm never a Dollar short... I 
> am, however, a short Dollar.

Suz, Suz...

If your husband is on a trip, your family *is* "a Dollar short". :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 12:21:13 -0700
From: "Suz Dollar" <suzd@goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Punnery (was Re: Revenge of the Son of Traveller Chat)

> If your husband is on a trip, your family *is* "a Dollar short". :-)

Groan. Its usually me thats away on business, tho :) The rule still holds, 
tho :)

Upon giving birth:  Another day, another Dollar...

Suz

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 16:08:44 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: AUCTION: MegaTraveller/DGP (Sol&As, Var&Vil, WBH, SOM, etc.)

YEAH!!! Thanks for doing business with me. I eagerly await the product. I have
been doing this since Christmas and nobody has ripped me off yet. I was
spoiled because my best friend back east had everything, so I didn't buy
anything. Of course I had to go and move to Las Vegas (we still PBEM), and I'm
panicking that if I don't buy them now; they'll disappear for good.

Sincerely,

Seth C. Kimmel

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 17:23:55 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Seeker Games

Does anyone have any contact information for Seeker Gaming Systems?  Are
they still in business?

Thanks!

Kurt Feltenberger
kurt@blazenet.net



http://www.igateway.com/clients/kurt/mp  Morrow Project Site

http://www.igateway.com/clients/kurt/pj PJ the Welsh Terrier Site

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 13:30:18 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Updated release schedule from SJG & GURPS Traveller HC

I just received this updated release schedule from SJG, note that it
includes a GURPS Traveller HC.

        UPCOMING RELEASES                      Price        Shipping

6600     GURPS Traveller                       $22.95       Aug/Sept
6602     GURPS Traveller Hardback (Limited Ed)   N/A        Aug/Sept
6601     Spinward Marches (for G-Traveller)    $23.95     September

[non GURPS TRaveller items snipped]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 17:12:45 -0700
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Referee Created Sectors ?

CardSharks@aol.com wrote:

> One product I want to see in T5 is a package called Faraway Sector.
>
> Marc

Marc,

Can you give us an update on T5?

You don't have to give away any Imperial secrets or anything.  I'm just curious
what your thoughts are about the direction on the new game.  I'd like to know
things about ideas for products, milieu it will be set in, if you've found a
suitable publisher, when you expect it to be coming out...basically, any news that
you would like to share with us.

Thanks,

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 10:53:49 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Traveller and Imperium Games

From:           	CardSharks@aol.com
Date sent:      	Sat, 18 Jul 1998 12:22:22 EDT

> In a message dated 98-07-18 07:10:29 EDT, you write:

>  So what's the eventual disposition of the materials if they can't get a
>  license? I hope they won't just be destroyed. But I can see where just
>  giving them to you might not go over very well either.

> For one thing, Imperium won't even talk to me, despite my continued calls and
> faxes and emails. My notice to them came only after a long period of trying to
> negotiate some sort of resolution.

Ah, I guess it reassuring to know that IG stuff people about without prejudice. 
IG have single handedly done more damage to the game than CCG, the demise 
of GDW and the march of time put together. Mayhap a crack assault team of 
lesbian Aslan pirates should be arranged :*>

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 18:00:32 -0500
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@fastlane.net>
Subject: LOM & More Keith...

>Bryan wrote thusly:
>For instance, there  was at least one request to see more of the 
>Keith Brothers material. I have talked to them about this some months >ago
>now, and while they are not up to speed on the latest edition of >the
>rules, there would be the possibility of having them do some new >stuff,
>though posibly for the old rules, if the price was right >(William was
>definitely willing to do some Traveller artwork again, >Keith was a little
>iffier), what that price might be would >understandably be needed to be
>discussed).

Which Keith was a little iffier?

>The manuscripts are:
>
>"Rogues in Space I: Letter of Marque" 

>"Rogues in Space II: 'Scams & Cons" (working title only)

>"Starport - Planetfall" 

>"Artic Environment" 

>"Faldor - World of Adventure"

>L8r,
>Paul Sanders
>timmon@primenet.com

I just received LOM yesterday, and decided to pull out everything I had on
the Reavers Deep.  It turns out there was quite a bit published.  

In the adventure "Escape" by JAK, published by Seeker, at the end it says
to "Look for the next adventure folio in this campaign: Rendezvous With
Danger."  In looking at the list above I did not see it listed.  

Since it already had a title, the proposal had probably already been
written, so I am wondering, was this adventure lost, or does JAK still have
some more stuff sitting around that he didn't sell to Paul.

Just wondering (i.e. hoping) if there might be more Keith stuff around.

Jimmy Simpson
	nimrodd@fastlane.net
"Cannot say.
Saying, I would know.
Do not know.
So cannot say."
		-Zathras (Babylon 5)

p.s.  I loved LOM.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 23:37:40
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Uakye Transport Partners

UAP is a small Fledgeling line mentioned in Merchant Prince. Formed as a
partnership between five free traders, it concentrates on routes between
Efate and Regina.

The line is somewhat unusual, as it's fleet consists solely of jump-1 and
jump-3 ships - two TL11 Sharik Gidaada class and three TL12 Recollets. This
being so close to the Vargr frontier, all ships are armed, usually with a
mixture of missiles and lasers.

Two of the Recollets, the Ditzammer and Winifreda, were built in the
General Products yards on Regina in the last twenty years, while the Sharik
Gidaadas were both built three decades ago at Adabicci in Lunion subsector.
The third Recollet, the Hengabar, is somewhat old in the tooth and hails
from somewhere in Core - it's records are somewhat blurred on this point.

The line currently serves seven worlds in the Regina subsector - Efate,
Uakye, Alell, Roup, Ruie, Regina and Jenghe. Somewhat surprisingly the line
concentrates on two of the less developed worlds in the subsector - Ruie
and Roup.

The line has entered into a favourable trade agreement the the government
of Roup, and this is proving beneficial for both parties - UTP is gaining a
secure base of operations, while Roup is gaining access to regularily
scheduled freight services, leading to valuable hard-currency earnings.
 
The corporation has access to a sizable ex-military facility on Roup,
mostly empty at this time, and UTP personell carry special passports that
identify them to the authorities on Roup and exempt them from many local laws.

Negotiations are ongoing with several of the smaller governments on Ruie
for a similar arrangement.

The Sharik Gidaada 'Princess of Ruie' conducts a regular scheduled circuit
of Ruie-Regina-Ruie-Jenghe-Ruie, while the Michat Forbolden travels
Alell-Efate-Uakye-Efate-Alell.

The Ditzammer is active between Roup and Ruie, while the Winifreda travels
between Alell and Regina via Roup. These ships trade places when
maintainence is due, allowing only a minor disruption in schedules.

The Hengabar is being refitted as an express passenger ship, travelling
between Regina and Efate, with a brief stop for refuelling at one of the
four gas giants in the Knorbes system. It is hoped that this service will
provide a level of competition on this route with more established carriers
- - indeed, the vagaries of jumpspace may at some point allow UTP to access a
brief window of being the sole owner of important news from the subsector
capital to the subsector's main world, or vice versa.

UTP is carving itself a niche market in low-technology industrial goods -
it has placed a number of orders for small fission power plants with
industrial concerns on Roup, and it is aggressivly recruiting a sales staff
to sell these 2 dton/12 MW plants to belters throughout the subsector as
cheap, rugged, reliable, emergency power backups.

The companies plans include solidifying it's political position on Ruie,
and expanding out towards Enope, Louzy and perhaps Extolay.

Currently, it employs a small staff of between three and twelve people on
each world it services, and has contracts with General Shipyards on Regina
and Uakye F'therizili for maintainence of it's fleet.

Financially, the company is attempting to absorb the consolidation of the
debt on four of it's five ships. It's routes are surprisingly profitable,
and within three years the company should have the choice between buying
several used ships, investing directly in it's suppliers on Roup and Ruie
or diversifying into asteroid prospecting in the mostly-untapped belts of
Roup.

****************************************************************************
*********

Thats the overview. Next instalment is going to go into more detail on the
personell of UTP, their facilities and even a copy of their balance sheet.

Incidentally, I didnt plan on the company focussing on Ruie and Roup, but
they turned out to be remarkably profitable - you can even make a small
amount shipping goods away from them to higher tech worlds, although the
real profits are with imports. This is a problem in the long term, unless
goods are exported to balance this, which is the case in this case.

Incidentally, Roup appears to be Amber Zoned ... I'm not sure why. Could be
something to do with the fact it's a water world with government A and law
level 9. Ruie is an Amber Zone, balkanised and also TL7 ... something tells
me UTP is shipping sonars and TL7 naval goods in general to Ruie from Roup.
I'm not sure whats coming the other way.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 20:08:59 EDT
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Referee Created Sectors ?

In a message dated 98-07-18 13:51:36 EDT, you write:

<< 
 I've long been an advocate of the smaller campaign, a subsector or two at
 most.  I like the greater detail of worlds and populations, rather than
 having the planet as a stepping stone effect you get with Imperium spanning
 campaigns.
 
  >>
I agree. I would like to see every referee have his own (developing over time)
sector, as well as playing adventures int he official Imperium milieux.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 20:22:07 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: LOM & More Keith... 

> I just received LOM yesterday, and decided to pull out everything I had on
> the Reavers Deep.  It turns out there was quite a bit published.  

Any of this stuff (star maps & such) on the web yet?  I'm particulary 
interested in *published* data for the area.  LOM plugged a couple holes in my 
data gap, but there's still a LOT that needs to be found.

> Just wondering (i.e. hoping) if there might be more Keith stuff around.

Me, too.  Especially if it's for CT.  <grin>

Keven
- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 21:04:35 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Referee Created Sectors ? 

> In a message dated 98-07-18 13:51:36 EDT, you write:
> 
> << 
>  I've long been an advocate of the smaller campaign, a subsector or two at
>  most.  I like the greater detail of worlds and populations, rather than
>  having the planet as a stepping stone effect you get with Imperium spanning
>  campaigns.
>  
>   >>
> I agree. I would like to see every referee have his own (developing over time)
> sector, as well as playing adventures int he official Imperium milieux.

Any plans on a M:1300ish sourcebook for T5?

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 20:12:38 -0500
From: Talisman <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Off topic.  World of darkness.

Hey, I am trying to advertise this to all remotely interested individuals.  Maybe
some of you will be such.

http://www.vazdru.com/elysium/new.html

it the home page for an online game.
- --
My god, it's full of stars!


Http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/4467

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #670
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Sunday, July 19 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 671



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Referee Created Sectors ?
Re: LOM & More Keith...
Re: Traveller and Imperium Games
SSDS help
Trav Chat
Re: Uakye Transport Partners
More Keith...Round II
Re: Referee Created Sectors
Re:  Old Gaming Systems
Re: LOM & More Keith... 
Re: More Keith...Round II
Re: SSDS help
Re: Referee Created Sectors ?
Re: Referee Created Sectors ? 
Re: LOM & More Keith... 
Re: More Keith...Round II 
Re: Referee Created Sectors ?
Re: Late 3I Fleet Strengths
Re: Referree Generated Sectors?
Re: "Letter of Marque"
Re: More Keith...Round II

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 20:31:35 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Referee Created Sectors ?

On 07/18/98 at 05:12 PM,  Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com> said:

>CardSharks@aol.com wrote:

>> One product I want to see in T5 is a package called Faraway Sector.

Sounds like a very good idea to me.

>Can you give us an update on T5?

Marc, I think we all would appreciate anything word you might have on the progress of the next version.

Eris

ps. Ken, long time gone!  It's good to hear from you.

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 20:35:57 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: LOM & More Keith...

On 07/18/98 at 06:00 PM,  Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@fastlane.net> said:

>Which Keith was a little iffier?

Well, if it wasn't William, it must have been Andrew, eh? ;->

I just finished LoM, and I'm going to have to read it again.  I'm not
running a pirate/privateer/corsair campaign at the moment...never know
what my gang might do with the good ship Mae Lee, though...but even
though I'm not, there's still a lot of *very* useful material in there.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 20:31:47 -0700
From: Skoal <skoal@mail.gci-net.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller and Imperium Games

At 10:37 AM 7/18/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Well I don't feel so bad as they won't talk to me about product I paid for and
>didn't receive,
>as well as a lot of other people on the TML. Hopefully whomever publishes your
>future products works out better. I am looking forward to your new rule set.

New rule set???
Could someone fill me in on the Info please..

Thanks

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 20:41:17 -0700
From: Skoal <skoal@mail.gci-net.com>
Subject: SSDS help

Hello All..

I been reading the SSDS and kind of have it down... Ok almost :)

What I need help with is

1) what is the Min/Max. for Armor
2) what is the Max. for G's 

On page 7 it says, decide how many Gs of acceleration the ship requires.

Thanks

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 20:48:14 -0700
From: Brad Urwiller <ravyn@ptw.com>
Subject: Trav Chat

Just how does one get onto the undernet?  I'd love to log onto a chat session but I haven't a clue how to do it.

Brad
ravyn@ptw.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 23:54:33 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Uakye Transport Partners

Dear Mr. Whitchurch;

I noticed you mentioned that the line uses Knorbes as a refueling point. I
vaguely remember that it is red zoned because it is where the black globes
came from. This makes for some interesting adventure nuggets....

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 21:38:49 -0700
From: Sanders <timmon@primenet.com>
Subject: More Keith...Round II

I'M BACK

Ok, after a whirlwind visit to Rome, Paris (I missed the party), and
London, I'm back home for the next six-months or so.

****

NEW RELEASES

I hesitate to make this announcement so soon - seeing that at least 1/2 the
people who bought LOM are still waiting for their copies to arrive in their
mailboxes...but what the heck - I'm bored and ready to get started. (With
temps hitting 117f I am 'housebound', and can only stand so much swimming
in the pool.)

Marc has given me permission to release limited-TML printings of the other
four Andrew Keith supplements. I'd like to get them all 'out' by Christmas
if possible. I'm inclined to release "Starport Planetfall" next, but
thought I'd ask for a show of hands...

So - which shall it be?

"Starport Planetfall" 

"Faldor - World of Adventure"

"Scam" (Rouges in Space II)

"Artic Environment" (I'm working to include the 'missing' material from
"Ordeal by Eshaar" as an insert - 1/3 of the original manuscript was cut
from the final product - so keep your fingers crossed.)

I'll wait one week for feedback (please send your vote to me at
timmon@primenet.com), and then post an announcement as too the results.

****

COST

Below is a breakdown of costs per supplement, and shows why I'll need to
charge $20 for each supplement from now on. To make up for the increase in
cost, Andrew has agreed to autograph copies for those who want it, which
for LOM was well over 1/2 the copies sold.

$ 400 (Marc - $100 cash, and $300 in goods - i.e. the cost to produce his
20 	copies)
$ 600 (Andrew - per manuscript)
$1100 (Printer - 150 copies - only 120 of which are available to sell, 20
     	are reserved for Marc, and 10 reserved for people who contribute to 
	the production)
$ 250 (Postage and envelopes)
$  50 (Misc.)
- ------
$2400 Total 

120 copies x $20 = $2400 (Cost will be the same for all orders - Domestic
and Foreign)

****

CONTEST

Since things are pretty dead on the list at the moment, I thought I'd try
and liven things up by launching a mini contest...

For those wishing to enter, please send me one or both of the following:
 
* A *detailed* NPC to be found at or around a starport (with fully-fleshed
out text descriptions rather than just stats).  

* A small starship with a *specific purpose* (again, stats are ok, but I'm 
more interested in detailed text descriptions, and those with deckplans are
even better). 

Entries similar to the old White Dwarf articles "Three of a Kind" and
"Bounty Hunter" are what I am looking for.

I'll pick the five best entries and include them in the insert for
"Starport Planetfall". 

The five winners will receive a free copy of "Starport Planetfall" AND one
of the other supplements to be chosen by the winners.

Either email me your entries at: timmon@primenet.com -or- send 'em
snail-mail to: Paul Sanders, 1316 W. 2nd Ave., Apache Junction, AZ 85220 USA.

As for a contest deadline...how about mid-Sept.

****

LOM

Rather than answering the numerous inquires individually...

I don't have any copies of LOM left/for sale - please contact either Marc
Miller, or see if anyone on the TML has an extra copy for sale - I know one
individual bought five copies to specifically have 'spares' on hand for
those who missed out.

Many thanks for all the positive feedback sent privately - Mark, they
really liked your work in the insert (yes - it's a plug - and he deserves
every bit of it).


Ok, I've rambled on quite enough :)

Paul Sanders
timmon@primenet.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 00:36:18 EDT
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re: Referee Created Sectors

dberry@hooked.net sez:


>Subject: Re: Referee Created Sectors ?

>


>At 12:22 PM 7/18/98 EDT, Marc wrote:

>

>>One product I want to see in T5 is a package called Faraway Sector.

>>Provisions for locating a sector at some point close enough to interact with

>>Traveller's known space, but far away enough that it isn't driven by its 

>>events.

> 

 Several places exist to do this on the M:1100 maps of Known Space. While I
would be partial to a pocket state contacted by the Zhodani about 1000 LY
towards the galactic Core (hey, where the Ancients went so went Humaniti in
some form...) there is also lots of room in the wilds beyond the Vargr
extents, the far spinward rift-edge zone beyond The Beyond (and sweeping
coreward into Zhodani-explored space, where my current game is), and out
rimward of the Solomani and Hivers. LOTS of room.



>I've long been an advocate of the smaller campaign, a subsector or two at

>most.  I like the greater detail of worlds and populations, rather than

>having the planet as a stepping stone effect you get with Imperium spanning

>campaigns.


 With the simple act of placing a moon-carrying gas giant in the habitable
zone of a star, you can build single systems that could keep a group busy for
weeks or months. Just think: a campaign where the characters would be ecstatic
over the acquisition of a Modular Cutter, instead of needing 800 dtons of
electric death just to jump around in...

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 12:36:19 +0800
From: "Michael Bailey" <mickb@opera.iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re:  Old Gaming Systems

Ahhh, The Fantasy Trip.  I cut my teeth on that game *g*

Actually, I've been trying to get hold of this again.  If anyone knows where
I can get the old TFT books, please drop me a line.



Thanx,

Mick

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 21:51:31 -0700
From: Sanders <timmon@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: LOM & More Keith... 

At 08:22 PM 7/18/98 -0400, you wrote:
>> I just received LOM yesterday, and decided to pull out everything I had on
>> the Reavers Deep.  It turns out there was quite a bit published.  
>
>Any of this stuff (star maps & such) on the web yet?  I'm particulary 
>interested in *published* data for the area.  LOM plugged a couple holes
in my 
>data gap, but there's still a LOT that needs to be found.

"Scams" is also set in Reavers Deep, so it should fill in a few more of the
gaps.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 00:39:07 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net>
Subject: Re: More Keith...Round II

At 11:38 PM 7/18/98 , Paul Sanders wrote:
>I'M BACK
>
>Ok, after a whirlwind visit to Rome, Paris (I missed the party), and
>London, I'm back home for the next six-months or so.
>
>****
>
>NEW RELEASES
>
>I hesitate to make this announcement so soon - seeing that at least 1/2 the
>people who bought LOM are still waiting for their copies to arrive in their
>mailboxes...but what the heck - I'm bored and ready to get started. (With
>temps hitting 117f I am 'housebound', and can only stand so much swimming
>in the pool.)
>
>Marc has given me permission to release limited-TML printings of the other
>four Andrew Keith supplements. I'd like to get them all 'out' by Christmas
>if possible. I'm inclined to release "Starport Planetfall" next, but
>thought I'd ask for a show of hands...
>
>So - which shall it be?
>
>"Starport Planetfall" 

Next ie 1

>"Faldor - World of Adventure"

number 4

>"Scam" (Rouges in Space II)
 Number two

>"Artic Environment" (I'm working to include the 'missing' material from
>"Ordeal by Eshaar" as an insert - 1/3 of the original manuscript was cut
>from the final product - so keep your fingers crossed.)

Number 3

One of each please signed of coarse.
Add my name for the above.

Sinbad Sam
sinbad@hex.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 01:50:07 -0400
From: "johannes" <johannes@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: SSDS help

- -----Original Message-----
From: Skoal <skoal@mail.gci-net.com>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Saturday, July 18, 1998 11:43 PM
Subject: SSDS help


>
>Hello All..
>
>I been reading the SSDS and kind of have it down... Ok almost :)
>
>What I need help with is
>
>1) what is the Min/Max. for Armor
>2) what is the Max. for G's
>
>On page 7 it says, decide how many Gs of acceleration the ship requires.
>
>Thanks
>


I've been using a minimum armor factor of 10 times max acceleration.  This
produces results similar to the standard hulls found in the QSDS.  Maximum
possible armor is whatever volume's left after you allow for everything
else, if you want a flying block of alloy there's nothing to stop you.
Acceleration is limited by the effectiveness of the Inertial Compensators at
a given TL, the chart for this is found on page 103 of the Starships book.
I dunno what they do at TL 9, there's G-tanks but no info on how effective
they are.

John

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 01:06:10 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Referee Created Sectors ?

On 07/18/98 at 08:08 PM,  CardSharks@aol.com said:

>In a message dated 98-07-18 13:51:36 EDT, you write:

><< 
> I've long been an advocate of the smaller campaign, a subsector or
>two at most.

>I agree. I would like to see every referee have his own (developing
>over time) sector, as well as playing adventures int he official
>Imperium milieux.

That's a reasonable approach...even for a heretic like me. ;->

Let me put a plug in for supplements that are written in a general
enough way so that those of us that are playing in other TU's can use
them. 

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 02:23:32 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Referee Created Sectors ? 

> >I agree. I would like to see every referee have his own (developing
> >over time) sector, as well as playing adventures int he official
> >Imperium milieux.
> 
> That's a reasonable approach...even for a heretic like me. ;->
> 
> Let me put a plug in for supplements that are written in a general
> enough way so that those of us that are playing in other TU's can use
> them. 

Here, here.

But even so, with a bit of work, you can hammer *anything* to fit any TU.  Just depends on how much hassle you're willing to go thru to get the job done.

Keven
- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 02:25:17 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: LOM & More Keith... 

> At 08:22 PM 7/18/98 -0400, you wrote:
> >> I just received LOM yesterday, and decided to pull out everything I had on
> >> the Reavers Deep.  It turns out there was quite a bit published.  
> >
> >Any of this stuff (star maps & such) on the web yet?  I'm particulary 
> >interested in *published* data for the area.  LOM plugged a couple holes
> in my 
> >data gap, but there's still a LOT that needs to be found.
> 
> "Scams" is also set in Reavers Deep, so it should fill in a few more of the
> gaps.

Coolness.  Howbout the Starport Planetfall?

(makes a note to reserve about a C-note for 'new stuff')

Keven
- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 02:34:45 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: More Keith...Round II 

> Marc has given me permission to release limited-TML printings of the other
> four Andrew Keith supplements. I'd like to get them all 'out' by Christmas
> if possible. I'm inclined to release "Starport Planetfall" next, but
> thought I'd ask for a show of hands...

Anything's fine.

> COST
> 
> Below is a breakdown of costs per supplement, and shows why I'll need to
> charge $20 for each supplement from now on. To make up for the increase in
> cost, Andrew has agreed to autograph copies for those who want it, which
> for LOM was well over 1/2 the copies sold.
> 
> $ 400 (Marc - $100 cash, and $300 in goods - i.e. the cost to produce his
> 20 	copies)
> $ 600 (Andrew - per manuscript)
> $1100 (Printer - 150 copies - only 120 of which are available to sell, 20
>      	are reserved for Marc, and 10 reserved for people who contribute to 
> 	the production)
> $ 250 (Postage and envelopes)
> $  50 (Misc.)
> ------
> $2400 Total 
> 
> 120 copies x $20 = $2400 (Cost will be the same for all orders - Domestic
> and Foreign)

Why not increase the press run to 200 copies or so?  It would bring the price 
per copy down a bit and give you a bit of a cash surplus to buy the work 
needed for the next module.  Your time's gotta be worth *SOMETHING*, for 
Ghenghis' sake!

> I don't have any copies of LOM left/for sale - please contact either Marc
> Miller, or see if anyone on the TML has an extra copy for sale - I know one
> individual bought five copies to specifically have 'spares' on hand for
> those who missed out.

Is there a possibility of a second press run of LOM?  I'm sure they would
probably sell out just as quick as the first run did.  AAMOF, somebody on the
TNE-RCES list asked me if I wanted to sell mine already.  Course, you *KNOW*
what the answer to that was!  <grin>

Keven
- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 19:46:27 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Referee Created Sectors ?

From:           	dberry@hooked.net
Date sent:      	Sat, 18 Jul 1998 10:46:39 -0700

> Well, we have the official numbering at any rate.  T4.1 is dead, Long live
> T5!!!

Its not dead, its just pining

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 00:17:04 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Late 3I Fleet Strengths

Peter Brenton Replied to me thusly:
>[snip Impy Fleet analysis...Conclusion; Impy Fleet is BIG]
>
>>Not counting system fleets, which may add another 1E9 or so in tonnage.
>>[SWAG]
>
>What's [SWAG] mean?

the Brackets indicate a source reference, and SWAG is "Semi-Wild-Ass-Guess"
>
>>All of this is naval and scout, excluding scout-only craft like survey
>>cruisers and XBoats. For X-Boats, I'd figure on 3 per segment of the
>>Express Boat lines, plus 1 scout per planet not Navalized, thus not in the
>>pools, on X-Mail service to non-route worlds.
>
>Some (me included) might argue for this number being a factor of 3-10
>larger.  Perhaps 12-15 xboats per leg.

I'd argue I estimated about a factor of 3-5 low, but was setting assumtions
for a minimum level.

>> So, add 110KTd in Scouts, and
>>probably 50KTd in XBoats, plus a 600Td tender in each leg, adding another
>>300KTd... chump change, really.[gueses based upon craft sizes and
>>maintenance and misjump rates, probably 50%low for XBoats; scouts counts
>>only those not subject to navalization and thus not under naval figures].
>
>Perhaps you are including this in that last sentance, but doesn't the IISS
>have scout *cruisers*?  The AHL Class served for awhile in that role.  I
>would assume that the AHL's replacement class (I don't know of a Canon
>replacement) may have served in the Scout Cruiser role in its obselescence
>as well.

I'm aware of the scout cruisers, as well as the mission specific donosevs,
et al. I assumed that the scout service has many ships not subject to
"Navalization" except in extreme situations, and thus not in the naval
figures. In fact, I was assuming pretty much only type S and variants, and
fast couriers, and fleet couriers in the scout pool.

>Anyway, its bound to be, as you say, chump change in comarison to the
>regular Navy numbers you have, even if there are 60k cruisers in large
>numbers.
>
>>SO, roughly 7.5 E9 Td in imperial service. Not counted are Depot Fleets,
>>which are the mothballed reserve of obsolescant craft.
>
>Ooohh, Count the mothballers too!  Good old TL14 and TL13 designs just ripe
>for a few Zho lasers to chew on.

One reference in cannon (can't remember which) gave some figure for
mothbals ion relation to the main fleet. I figure probably another 5E9 -
9E9 Td in mothballs. However; Since the main fleet is TL 14-15, the reserve
fleets are the TL13-14 ships, and the mothballs would then logically be
primarily TL 11-13....

And to think, IMTU, there is a privately owned ship of 1E6Td... <G>

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 00:33:43 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Referree Generated Sectors?

Marc Miller wrote:
>One product I want to see in T5 is a package called Faraway Sector. Provisions
>for locating a sector at some point close enough to interact with Traveller's
>known space, but far away enough that it isn't driven by its events.
>Components would include blank sector and subsector maps, etc etc. Rules/books
>would guide the refere through creating the sector, including why there are
>humans there, what other minor races there are (human and non human), the
>interatctions one can expect, etc.

Sounds ideal to me, if it is at least 1 sector of buffer between it and the
play areas. I'd buy it. I'd also buy a book like what I hear SJG has going
for the Marches for each sector of the Imperium.

(I have heard SJG has at least a paragraph for EVERY WORLD in the Marches.)

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 01:52:01 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: "Letter of Marque"

  Maybe it's just me, but doesn't the "Proposal" section effectively
comprise "Special Supplement Four: How to Prepare Traveller Material
for Publishing"? It surprised me at first to find the business aspects
of the original document still included.

  Which, come to think of it, might not be the least useful thing there.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 22:19:35 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: More Keith...Round II

Date sent:      	Sat, 18 Jul 1998 21:38:49 -0700
From:           	Sanders <timmon@primenet.com>

> So - which shall it be?

> "Starport Planetfall" 

First

> "Faldor - World of Adventure"

Fourth

> "Scam" (Rouges in Space II)

Third

> "Artic Environment" (I'm working to include the 'missing' material from
> "Ordeal by Eshaar" as an insert - 1/3 of the original manuscript was cut
> from the final product - so keep your fingers crossed.)

Second

Please reserve an signed copy of each for me.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #671
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Sunday, July 19 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 672



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller and Imperium Games
Re: Referee Created Sectors ?
Re: Traveller and Imperium Games
Re: SSDS help
Re: Starting Traveller
Every world in the marches
Re: Referee created sectors
T5 Rule set
Re: Traveller and Imperium Games
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #667
Re: SSDS help
Re: SSDS help
Re: New Computerized Rifle
Re: Punnery (was Re: Revenge of the Son of Traveller Chat)
Re: Starting Traveller
Re: Letters of Marque
Re: Referree Generated Sectors?
Re: Starting Traveller
Re: Starting Traveller
Re: Referree Generated Sectors?
Re: Referree Generated Sectors?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 22:36:35 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller and Imperium Games

In mail you write:

> Well I don't feel so bad as they won't talk to me about product I
> paid for and didn't receive, as well as a lot of other people on the
> TML.

Well, if you sent the check thru the mail, you can sic the postal
inspectors on them. If you paid via credit card, sic the credit card
company on them. And if all else fails, file in your *local* small
claims court. They have to show up *there*, and they can't use a lot of
legal talent. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 22:13:07 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Referee Created Sectors ?

In mail you write:

> One product I want to see in T5 is a package called Faraway Sector. 

Well, you could also call it Erewhon Sector (nowhere spelled
backwards). I think the rights to the name expired (along with the
author of "Utopia") a few centuries back. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 22:31:59 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller and Imperium Games

In mail you write:

> In a message dated 98-07-18 07:10:29 EDT, you write:
>
> << 
>  So what's the eventual disposition of the materials if they can't get a
>  license? I hope they won't just be destroyed. But I can see where just
>  giving them to you might not go over very well either.
>  
>>>
>
> For one thing, Imperium won't even talk to me, despite my continued
> calls and faxes and emails. My notice to them came only after a long
> period of trying to negotiate some sort of resolution.

This reminds me entirely too much of the mess that resulted when there
was a dispute over the ownership of the QuickBBS BBS software. It tied
things up for years and a lot of folks switched to something else. 

While it may not be time to sic a lawyer on them, it's definitely time
to be talking to one.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 22:43:32 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: SSDS help

In mail you write:

> Hello All..
>
> I been reading the SSDS and kind of have it down... Ok almost :)
>
> What I need help with is
>
> 1) what is the Min/Max. for Armor
> 2) what is the Max. for G's 
>
> On page 7 it says, decide how many Gs of acceleration the ship requires.

And that's exactly what you do. *YOU* decide how many gees you want the
ship to have. Then you stick in enough engine and powerplant to give
the required thrust. You may discover that you can't cram enough in. :-)

The maximum acceleration depends on what else goes in the ship.
Acceleration is simple thrust divided by the mass of the ship. 

With armor, it's much the same. You are only limited by what you can
afford and what affect other items you want have.

It's like the real world. You are going to discover that the "limits"
are *interactive*. That is, setting a ship up with A means you can't do
B. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 07:34:20 -0400
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller

- -----Original Message-----
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller


>On 07/15/98 at 06:55 PM,  Thom Harris <thomharr@mediaone.net> said:
>
>>>Eris,
>>>    probably one of the oldest geezers here!
>
>
>>Uh, I was born in Oct 51' and had been in the Army 8 years when
>>Traveller came out in 77'.
>
>I've got you beat by 3 months. ;->
>
>>Thom (mind of a 12 year old) Harris
>
>Same here!
>
>Eris
>
Damn Eris, it seems we are the old farts (in body only of course)
here......I came back from a four year tour in Berlin in Dec 77' and picked
up the Trav boxed set in Sep 78'.  I was greatly influenced by Star Wars to
play an SF RPG.

Thom (The loneliest Scout/Pilot [Ret] in the Imperium) Harris

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 12:17:24 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Every world in the marches

> (I have heard SJG has at least a paragraph for EVERY WORLD in the
Marches.)

More than a paragraph, if I remember correctly. 
A paragraph of data, then one or more about the world itself. 

Even the boring ones.....

MJD

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 09:10:54 -0400
From: Matthew Harelick <matth@CYBERNEX.NET>
Subject: Re: Referee created sectors

- --------------16D44786F99183957FBCF2D1
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>
>
> Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 01:06:10 -0500
> From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
> Subject: Re: Referee Created Sectors ?
>
> On 07/18/98 at 08:08 PM,  CardSharks@aol.com said:
>
> >In a message dated 98-07-18 13:51:36 EDT, you write:
>
> ><<
> > I've long been an advocate of the smaller campaign, a subsector or
> >two at most.
>
> >I agree. I would like to see every referee have his own (developing
> >over time) sector, as well as playing adventures int he official
> >Imperium milieux.
>
> That's a reasonable approach...even for a heretic like me. ;->
>
> Let me put a plug in for supplements that are written in a general
> enough way so that those of us that are playing in other TU's can use
> them.
>

As well as rule sets. T4 was written at TL 12 and you had to wait for them to write all theirMileux before you got to the higher tech level equipment and rules.

- --
Matthew S. Harelick             Software Developer      PhD Candidate
matth@cybernex.net              matth@unipress.com      matth@time.njit.edu
http://www2.cybernex.net/~matth



- --------------16D44786F99183957FBCF2D1
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>

<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>&nbsp;

<P>Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 01:06:10 -0500
<BR>From: Eris Reddoch &lt;reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
<BR>Subject: Re: Referee Created Sectors ?

<P>On 07/18/98 at 08:08 PM,&nbsp; CardSharks@aol.com said:

<P>>In a message dated 98-07-18 13:51:36 EDT, you write:

<P>>&lt;&lt;
<BR>> I've long been an advocate of the smaller campaign, a subsector or
<BR>>two at most.

<P>>I agree. I would like to see every referee have his own (developing
<BR>>over time) sector, as well as playing adventures int he official
<BR>>Imperium milieux.

<P>That's a reasonable approach...even for a heretic like me. ;->

<P>Let me put a plug in for supplements that are written in a general
<BR>enough way so that those of us that are playing in other TU's can use
<BR>them.
<BR>&nbsp;</BLOCKQUOTE>
As well as rule sets. T4 was written at TL 12 and you had to wait for them
to write all theirMileux before you got to the higher tech level equipment
and rules.
<PRE>--&nbsp;
Matthew S. Harelick&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Software Developer&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; PhD Candidate
matth@cybernex.net&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; matth@unipress.com&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; matth@time.njit.edu
<A HREF="http://www2.cybernex.net/~matth">http://www2.cybernex.net/~matth</A></PRE>
&nbsp;</HTML>

- --------------16D44786F99183957FBCF2D1--

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 09:16:36 -0400
From: Matthew Harelick <matth@CYBERNEX.NET>
Subject: T5 Rule set

- --------------2AFCCA53D98B2E6D461FABD4
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi:

With all this excitement because Marc uttered the word "T5", I would like to
make a request.

I would buy a CD-ROM with all of classic traveller bundled together with some
of the supplements and some of the stuff from Digest Group.

I've always liked CT rules the best. The only reason I ever bought
Megatraveller is because at first glance it appeared it had all of the CT
rules in one place rather than a bunch of
little black books that I was afraid would disintegrate from overuse.

Thank You

- --
Matthew S. Harelick
matth@cybernex.net
http://www2.cybernex.net/~matth



- --------------2AFCCA53D98B2E6D461FABD4
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<HTML>

<PRE>Hi:</PRE>

<PRE></PRE>

<PRE>With all this excitement because Marc uttered the word "T5", I would like
to make a request.</PRE>

<PRE>I would buy a CD-ROM with all of classic traveller bundled together with
some of the supplements</PRE>

<PRE>and some of the stuff from Digest Group.</PRE>

<PRE></PRE>

<PRE>I've always liked CT rules the best. The only reason I ever bought
Megatraveller is because</PRE>

<PRE>at first glance it appeared it had all of the CT&nbsp;rules in one
place rather than a bunch of</PRE>

<PRE>little black books that I was afraid would disintegrate from
overuse.</PRE>

<PRE></PRE>

<PRE>Thank You</PRE>

<PRE></PRE>

<PRE>--&nbsp;
Matthew S. Harelick&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
matth@cybernex.net&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<A HREF="http://www2.cybernex.net/~matth">http://www2.cybernex.net/~matth</A></PRE>
&nbsp;</HTML>

- --------------2AFCCA53D98B2E6D461FABD4--

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 10:15:39 EDT
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller and Imperium Games

In a message dated 98-07-19 07:10:52 EDT, you write:

<< 
 This reminds me entirely too much of the mess that resulted when there
 was a dispute over the ownership of the QuickBBS BBS software. It tied
 things up for years and a lot of folks switched to something else. 
  >>

Not quite a true parallel. Imperium retains no rights; they have all reverted
to Far Future. Imperium has a warehouse full of goods that they can't sell
unless I say so, and I won't say so unless they come up with some really good
motivation for me. In fact, because they can't sell thm, the goods aren't an
overhang on the market when T5 comes out.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 15:31:26 +0100
From: Paul Radford <paulradford@innotts.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #667

<de-lurk>
Hello all,

For those of you who are interested, I've got a small Traveller section on my
web pages at

http://www.innotts.co.uk/~paulradford/

It contains a campaign consisting of of about 10 linked adventures. Now if only
other people could take more trouble to perhaps put some of their adventures on
the net?

Some vehicle designs with images may be going on in the near future as well.

<lurk>

Cheers,

Paul
 __________________________________________________________________________
   We travel light, we probe deep, and we strike hard. We're Delta
   Green, and we may be outlaws and cowboys and fools, but we've
   kept this green ball of sh*t safe and sound for longer than most
   people have been alive.
       - Maj. Gen. Reginald Fairfield, U.S. Army (Ret.)
 __________________________________________________________________________
   My web pages can be viewed at:
     http://www.innotts.co.uk/~paulradford/index.html
 __________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 09:11:46 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: SSDS help

At 08:41 pm 7/18/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Hello All..
>
>I been reading the SSDS and kind of have it down... Ok almost :)
>
>What I need help with is
>
>1) what is the Min/Max. for Armor
>2) what is the Max. for G's 
>
>On page 7 it says, decide how many Gs of acceleration the ship
requires.

	In reality, the max for Gs depends on (a) how much acceleration your
crew can withstand, and (b) how strong a drive you can mount.
*Normally* what you do is determine how much acceleration
compensation you can provide at your TL. That's the limit for
merchant/passenger vessels. If the decks are laid out so the thrust
axis points "up" (NOT like the scout/courier), then you can add 1G.
Military vessels can add about 2Gs, but the crews can't do much at 2G
excess acceleration--they have to be all strapped in.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 09:14:01 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: SSDS help

At 01:50 am 7/19/98 -0400, you wrote:
>I dunno what they do at TL 9, there's G-tanks but no info on how
effective
>they are.

	IIRC they provide 1G of compensation, but you have to be in them to
use them ...
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 13:11:42 -0400
From: "Eric & Diane Freitas" <ericfreitas@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: New Computerized Rifle

Use a small nuclear battery.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Thursday, June 04, 1998 8:01 AM
Subject: RE: New Computerized Rifle


>At 09:21 AM 04/06/98 +0100, you wrote:
>>The ACR is born!
>>
>>Best regards,
>>
>>Hugh Foster
>>System Support Analyst
>>
>>Servisair (UK) Ltd.
>>hughfoster@servisair.co.uk
>>www.servisair.co.uk
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Smart, David J (David) [SMTP:David.Smart@ons.octel.com]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 1998 5:03 PM
>>> To: 'traveller@mpgn.com'
>>> Subject: New Computerized Rifle
>>>
>>> Alliant Techsystems team to develop new US individual weapon
>>>
>>> A US/European team led by Defence Systems Group has been selected to
>>> develop the Objective Individual Combat Weapon (OICW), the US
>>> military's
>>> next-generation individual weapon. The OICW will replace the M16 rifle
>>> and M203 grenade launcher used by US Forces.
>
>I can imagine this thing being the soldiers ultimate nightmare when it gets
>crap in it because it's sure to happen when you haven't been near an
>armourer for weeks and it's raining and the bad guys have decided to pay
>you a visit. And just think - more stuff to carry and run out of -
>wonderful batteries (don't batteries die really quickly in sub-zero
>temperatures).
>
>--
>IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--
>
>"If in doubt - wipe it out."
>
>Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
>Palmerston North, New Zealand
>Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 10:01:13 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Punnery (was Re: Revenge of the Son of Traveller Chat)

At 12:21 PM 7/18/98 -0700, you wrote:
>> If your husband is on a trip, your family *is* "a Dollar short". :-)
>
>Groan. Its usually me thats away on business, tho :) The rule still holds, 
>tho :)
>
>Upon giving birth:  Another day, another Dollar...

I'll have to tell that to my father, he's the elder Berry.
- --

Douglas Berry
dberry@hooked.net
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry
"Come to Life, Iron Chef!"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 14:53:36 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller

- -----Original Message-----
From: Thom Harris <thomharr@mediaone.net>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Sunday, July 19, 1998 7:38 AM
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller



>>>Uh, I was born in Oct 51' and had been in the Army 8 years when
>>>Traveller came out in 77'.
>>
>>I've got you beat by 3 months. ;->
>>
>>>Thom (mind of a 12 year old) Harris
>>
>>Same here!
>>
>>Eris
>>
>Damn Eris, it seems we are the old farts (in body only of course)
>here......I came back from a four year tour in Berlin in Dec 77' and picked
>up the Trav boxed set in Sep 78'.  I was greatly influenced by Star Wars to
>play an SF RPG.


Well as I said I picked Trav up sometime (memory failure at work!) in late
1977 and I was born in Oct. 1954. At the time I started playing I was
working as a machineist and had a 3 year old and a 1 year old son. Later, as
they grew and I moved into a management job and re-started school for
engineering I dropped out of game. Now, in my waining years, having shipped
both boys to the U.S.M.C. for wargaming training, I find that a teenage
daughter leaves just enough time to play/ref again.

So even with the "vacation" from Trav, am I eligable for the club?

Mike Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com
"Help Wanted: Telepath, You know where to apply!"  unknown, bumper sticker.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 15:50:45 EDT
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: Re: Letters of Marque

I finally got mine last Monday...Thanks Paul...great job!!

Mike McKeown

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 16:19:12 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Referree Generated Sectors?

On 07/19/98 at 12:33 AM,  "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU> said:

>Marc Miller wrote:
>>One product I want to see in T5 is a package called Faraway Sector. Provisions
>>for locating a sector at some point close enough to interact with Traveller's
>>known space, but far away enough that it isn't driven by its events.
>>Components would include blank sector and subsector maps, etc etc. Rules/books
>>would guide the refere through creating the sector, including why there are
>>humans there, what other minor races there are (human and non human), the
>>interatctions one can expect, etc.

>Sounds ideal to me, if it is at least 1 sector of buffer between it
>and the play areas. 

That would be best, probably *more* than 1 sector buffer, 3 or 4 sectors
would be better.

>I'd buy it. I'd also buy a book like what I hear
>SJG has going for the Marches for each sector of the Imperium.

Yes, I agree with you about this too. ;->

>(I have heard SJG has at least a paragraph for EVERY WORLD in the
>Marches.)

There *is* a small "however" associated with SJG's GT and _Behind The
Claw_, though.  It doesn't look like they will be using UWP's to
describe the main worlds.  Ok, UWP's aren't a GURPS thing, but I
certainly wish they would include them even if they didn't explain them
in the text at all.  UWP's don't provide nearly enough information to
really detail a system, but they are a quick and convenient shorthand
that I'll hate to lose.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 16:25:31 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller

On 07/19/98 at 07:34 AM,  Thom Harris <thomharr@mediaone.net> said:

>>>Uh, I was born in Oct 51' and had been in the Army 8 years when
>>>Traveller came out in 77'.
>>
>>I've got you beat by 3 months. ;->
>>
>>>Thom (mind of a 12 year old) Harris
>>
>>Same here!
>>
>>Eris
>>
>Damn Eris, it seems we are the old farts (in body only of course)
>here......

I prefer "old coot" to "old fart"...but YMMV. ;->

>I came back from a four year tour in Berlin in Dec 77' and
>picked up the Trav boxed set in Sep 78'.  I was greatly influenced by
>Star Wars to play an SF RPG.

Strangly enough, I wasn't influenced much by Star Wars movies in my Traveller campaigns. I think some of the players were, but for me it was really Poul Anderson's books.

>Thom (The loneliest Scout/Pilot [Ret] in the Imperium) Harris

Eris (who liked to plan the craftiest Merchant in known space)

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 16:34:52 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller

On 07/19/98 at 02:53 PM,  "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com> said:

>Well as I said I picked Trav up sometime (memory failure at work!) in
>late 1977 and I was born in Oct. 1954. At the time I started playing
>I was working as a machineist and had a 3 year old and a 1 year old
>son. Later, as they grew and I moved into a management job and
>re-started school for engineering I dropped out of game. Now, in my
>waining years, having shipped both boys to the U.S.M.C. for wargaming
>training, I find that a teenage daughter leaves just enough time to
>play/ref again.

>So even with the "vacation" from Trav, am I eligable for the
>club?

Sure!  We can start and "Old Traveller's" club.  To join you have to be
old enough to...what?  Watched the first Mercury launch on black and
white TV?  Voted inour first election before CT came out?  Been around
for the launch of all 4 versions of Traveller?

Eris,
    only as old as you feel, 
    and this week I feel OLD!
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 00:34:46 +0200
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Referree Generated Sectors?

Eris Reddoch wrote:

> There *is* a small "however" associated with SJG's GT and _Behind The
> Claw_, though.  It doesn't look like they will be using UWP's to
> describe the main worlds.  Ok, UWP's aren't a GURPS thing, but I
> certainly wish they would include them even if they didn't explain them
> in the text at all.  UWP's don't provide nearly enough information to
> really detail a system, but they are a quick and convenient shorthand
> that I'll hate to lose.
Well, the UWP´s can be found in other sources, however. I consider that to be a boon as i don´t
get the information included in the CT-SM supplement again.
ok, it´s not all in a book and you got to have both books handy, but it leaves more space for
new info and helps keep the price down!
- -- 
					 Volker
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
     /----------------------------------------------------------\
    /  Volker A. Greimann  Am Weidengraben 86, C6  54296 Trier   \
   /  grei5001@uni-trier.de   GERMANY    greimann@geocities.com   \
  /  ICQ:9767142      http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061   \
 /  Please don´t try to stop me-I´m just barely ahead of insanity   \
/--------------------------------------------------------------------\

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 17:49:36 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Referree Generated Sectors?

At 12:34 am 7/20/98 +0200, you wrote:
>Eris Reddoch wrote:
>
>> There *is* a small "however" associated with SJG's GT and _Behind
The
>> Claw_, though.  It doesn't look like they will be using UWP's to
>> describe the main worlds.  Ok, UWP's aren't a GURPS thing, but I
>> certainly wish they would include them even if they didn't explain
them
>> in the text at all.  UWP's don't provide nearly enough information
to
>> really detail a system, but they are a quick and convenient
shorthand
>> that I'll hate to lose.
>Well, the UWP´s can be found in other sources, however. I consider
that to be a boon as i don´t
>get the information included in the CT-SM supplement again.
>ok, it´s not all in a book and you got to have both books handy, but
it leaves more space for
>new info and helps keep the price down!

	That's great for all of us CT/MT/TNE/T4/T5/T98 ... owners, but
doesn't provide *any* help at all to the prospective new buyer of
Traveller material.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #672
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Monday, July 20 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 673



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Starting Traveller
Re: Referree Generated Sectors?
Re: Pictures of Strephon
Re: space 1999 Dates
Sensor Rules and CUSP combat system
ADMIN: List Behavior
Re: Re Economic Design Study #3.6 (was Making profits half full)
Game Feel and Baseline Traveller
Re: Pictures of Strephon
Re: Revenge of the Son of Traveller Chat)
Re: Starting Traveller
Adventures/Suppliments covering District 268 and borders?
Re: Game Feel and Baseline Traveller
Re: Starting Traveller
Re: Starting Traveller
Re: Starting Traveller
Re: Starting Traveller
Stealth 'Paint'
Re: Starting Traveller
Re: Stealth 'Paint'
Re: Stealth 'Paint'
Re: Traveller and Imperium Games
Re: Starting Traveller
Re: Stealth 'Paint' (long)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 23:23:27 -0700
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller

Eris Reddoch wrote:
...
> Sure!  We can start and "Old Traveller's" club.  To join you have to be
> old enough to...what?  Watched the first Mercury launch on black and
> white TV?  Voted inour first election before CT came out?  Been around
> for the launch of all 4 versions of Traveller?

...remember Strephon's coronation?

Kristian

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 01:03:43 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Referree Generated Sectors?

>There *is* a small "however" associated with SJG's GT and _Behind The
>Claw_, though.  It doesn't look like they will be using UWP's to
>describe the main worlds.  Ok, UWP's aren't a GURPS thing, but I
>certainly wish they would include them even if they didn't explain them
>in the text at all.  UWP's don't provide nearly enough information to
>really detail a system, but they are a quick and convenient shorthand
>that I'll hate to lose.

  Perhaps they (SJG) could at least make the 1120 SM UWP's available
on the web-site just like the TNS updates, etc?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 12:32:48 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: Pictures of Strephon

On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, Kristian Miller wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Does anyone know of any pictures of Strephon and where I can get them?
> I have one that's on an "Imperial 10 Credit note" that was a promo item
> from GDW, but it's not really usable for a web page.

The MegaTraveller Adventure 'Arrival: Vengeance' featured the best drawn
portraits of each of Norris, Strephon, Horvath, Margaret and Kuligaan.
I scanned them for own purposes, but I could put them on my website - if
someone else want them ...

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 12:37:41 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: space 1999 Dates

On Mon, 13 Jul 1998 trisen@postmaster.co.uk wrote:

> I just checked the video of the pilot  episode  "Breakaway".  The
> story _starts_ on 9th September with a member  of  the  radiation
> monitoring team going mad over at Nuclear Waste Disposal  Area  2
> (smaller than Area  1),  and  Walter  Koenig  being  informed  by
                                ^^^^^^
> Simmons while enroute to the moon that he is now base  commander.

That was John Koenig, played by Martin Landau. Not Chekhov or Bester,
played by above! ;-)
I Wonder how one choses a starting date of 9-9-99 for the series?
(I never know if to put the day or the month first ...)

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 21:10:26 -1000
From: Craig Barnett <craig_barnett@iname.com>
Subject: Sensor Rules and CUSP combat system

I've seen these two rules sets discussed on the list (both by Bruce
Macintosh I believe) and was wondering where I could get access to them,
if possible...

- --
Craig Barnett   <craig_barnett@iname.com>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 08:57:04 -0400
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@tansoft.com>
Subject: ADMIN: List Behavior

Just a reminder:

o	Please, no vulgarity
o	Keep the discussions on topic
o	Please be courteous
o	No flames.  If someone ticks you off, just ignore them.

Rob Miracle
List Administrator

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 13:51:24 +0100 (BST)
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Re Economic Design Study #3.6 (was Making profits half full)

>        "No purification plant"
(reasons snipped)

but how about buying unrefined fuel ay downport and purifing it on
station ?

Ewan

	Ewan Quibell
	Data Communications Technician        The Game's afoot:
	Computer Centre                       Follow your spirit, and apon
	University of Brighton                  this charge
                                              Cry 'God for Harry, England,
	E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              and Saint George !'

                                                    Henry V 3:1
	#include<stddisclamer.h>                    W. Shakespeare

	My spelling is entierly due to dyslexia, typoes and poetic license

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jul 1998 10:26 EDT
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Game Feel and Baseline Traveller

For me, the 'feel' of a game is probably based on:

Background          : 33%
Task System         : 33%
Character Generation: 33%

When the referee draws from his experience with particular D&D rules
to play the game, I feel like I'm playing "Dungeons in Space".

On the other hand, when I see those sublime 8x10 parsec subsector maps,
and am told that TAS has paid for my High Passage on board a 200t Free 
Trader, I know I'm Travelling, and I'm happy.

But when my stats have such oddments as "charisma", "agility", or
"constitution", the universe turns dark.

Some enlightened gentleman posted a concise summary last year on what
the Traveller "Baseline" is.  I don't remember exactly what that
baseline was, but I suppose it includes

	the one-week, parsec based jump drive
	the subsector map and UWP code
	primarily military-experienced characters (tho' not exclusively)

...it doesn't even include the 3I, because the rules explicitly state
that anything the referee wants to use the rules for is fine.

Rob
IMTU tc+ t4+ ge-() 3i(+) jt a ls+ va- so- zh vi da+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 08:03:39 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Pictures of Strephon

Lars Adler wrote:

> The MegaTraveller Adventure 'Arrival: Vengeance' featured the best drawn
> portraits of each of Norris, Strephon, Horvath, Margaret and Kuligaan.
> I scanned them for own purposes, but I could put them on my website - if
> someone else want them ...
>

Those would make nice additions to my library manual, if you'd be so kind ...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:34:24 -0400
From: warmind@juno.com (james a clem)
Subject: Re: Revenge of the Son of Traveller Chat)

URRKKK, HACK HACK HACK, WHEEEEEZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZE.

Please no more, no more!!  I can't take it!!  My system can't take it!! 
I'm melting, melting..........................

ROFLMAO, my wife would appreciate that one!


Jim A. Clem, B.S.E.
CEO and Founder, Diasporan Industries, Inc.
www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081/
Traveller Geek Code tc+ tm !tn tt t4+ ru+() ge++ !3i jt au (+) st ls(+)
pi+ he++ merc++ dt+++
GM:  The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM


On Sat, 18 Jul 1998 12:21:13 -0700 "Suz Dollar" <suzd@goodnet.com>
writes:
>> If your husband is on a trip, your family *is* "a Dollar short". :-)
>
>Groan. Its usually me thats away on business, tho :) The rule still 
>holds, 
>tho :)
>
>Upon giving birth:  Another day, another Dollar...
>
>Suz
>
>
>

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:42:38 -0400
From: warmind@juno.com (james a clem)
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller

On Sun, 19 Jul 1998 16:34:52 -0500 Eris Reddoch
<reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu> writes:

>>So even with the "vacation" from Trav, am I eligable for the
>>club?
>
>Sure!  We can start and "Old Traveller's" club.  To join you have to 
>be
>old enough to...what?  Watched the first Mercury launch on black and
>white TV?  Voted inour first election before CT came out?  Been around
>for the launch of all 4 versions of Traveller?
>
>Eris,
>    only as old as you feel, 
>    and this week I feel OLD!

I'd say, anyone who started playing before 1980.  I didn't see the first
Mercury launch, but I do remember the Geminis.


Jim A. Clem, B.S.E.
CEO and Founder, Diasporan Industries, Inc.
www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081/
Traveller Geek Code tc+ tm !tn tt t4+ ru+() ge++ !3i jt au (+) st ls(+)
pi+ he++ merc++ dt+++
GM:  The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 11:05:37 -0400
From: Michael Kent <mkent@atlantic.net>
Subject: Adventures/Suppliments covering District 268 and borders?

I'm looking for published adventures and suppliments that cover all or
parts of the Spinward Marches centered on District 268, including
Glisten, 268 itself, and Five Sisters (anyone care to guess where my
campaign will be situated? :o)

I've seen one mention that the Tarsus module covers 268.  Is that
correct?

Thanks.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 11:01:21 -0400
From: "chauncey smith" <Csmith@icdc.com>
Subject: Re: Game Feel and Baseline Traveller

- -----Original Message-----
From: Robert Eaglestone <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Monday, July 20, 1998 10:32 AM
Subject: Game Feel and Baseline Traveller


>For me, the 'feel' of a game is probably based on:
>
>Background          : 33%
>Task System         : 33%
>Character Generation: 33%
>
>When the referee draws from his experience with particular D&D rules
>to play the game, I feel like I'm playing "Dungeons in Space".
>
>On the other hand, when I see those sublime 8x10 parsec subsector maps,
>and am told that TAS has paid for my High Passage on board a 200t Free
>Trader, I know I'm Travelling, and I'm happy.
>
>But when my stats have such oddments as "charisma", "agility", or
>"constitution", the universe turns dark.
>
>Some enlightened gentleman posted a concise summary last year on what
>the Traveller "Baseline" is.  I don't remember exactly what that
>baseline was, but I suppose it includes
>
> the one-week, parsec based jump drive
> the subsector map and UWP code
> primarily military-experienced characters (tho' not exclusively)
>
>...it doesn't even include the 3I, because the rules explicitly state
>that anything the referee wants to use the rules for is fine.


Well what I've learned from collecting the LBB set of rules is that early on
buying the TRAVELLER was like buying AD&D what you got in the basic and even
the Deluxe set was basicly " here are the rules go play somewhere" and you
could build simple star ships and the like and make up your own melieu. The
3I came later like one year after the game was first printed.

Now in this age of gaming games are sold by the strength of the world that
they are set in and not on the strength of the system (this does not apply
to D&D. It's sold by name reconition alone). 3I is a complex world to play
and explain to some ppl. My first traveller games in 87 during MT was a flop
because I wanted all the bells and whistles that I found this world to have
and they where use too easier black and white worlds. So I built a
BattleStar ( yea like the one on TV) and we started that way. Then later I
introduced them to the 3I ( well you know.. if you're looking for earth...
that's where you find it.)

On the Traveller Rules I like the ones from TNE as the most advance set to
date. All the others are just the same. I like the MT task system for the D6
versions of the game also quick and easy. But I think that you should be
able to play in the melieu without having to use the rules too...
exspecially if you want something else that Traveller rules to date don't
offer. one example of this is using Corp or TIMELORDS to make the game lest
inducive to volence or Fudge for simpler craft design...

In Fact why not Release T5 as a world book with all the races and the like
and add a system later? The Game Cops aren't going to knock on your door.
but you may get flamed in a mailing list or 2 for using D&D rules with it
:).

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:32:45 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller

james a clem wrote:
> 
>
> I'd say, anyone who started playing before 1980.  I didn't see the first
> Mercury launch, but I do remember the Geminis.
> 

Whoa, that takes me back...one of my fragmentary early memories is
watching the entire Mercury 1 mission, sitting on my mother's lap in our
kitchen, watching the old Zenith B&W (which, come to think of it, was
considerably _newer_ then).

I distinctly remember thinking 'Wow, that's all?' when it was over so
soon, though that may have been later unconsious embellishment, since I
was all of 3 1/2 then.

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 12:49:51 -0400
From: warmind@juno.com (james a clem)
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller

On Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:32:45 -0700 Bruce Johnson
<johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> writes:
>james a clem wrote:
>> 
>>
>> I'd say, anyone who started playing before 1980.  I didn't see the 
>first
>> Mercury launch, but I do remember the Geminis.
>> 
>
>Whoa, that takes me back...one of my fragmentary early memories is
>watching the entire Mercury 1 mission, sitting on my mother's lap in 
>our
>kitchen, watching the old Zenith B&W (which, come to think of it, was
>considerably _newer_ then).
>
>I distinctly remember thinking 'Wow, that's all?' when it was over so
>soon, though that may have been later unconsious embellishment, since 
>I
>was all of 3 1/2 then.


Aye, I remember wondering, why are these two guys sitting in a funny box
in the water??  It started a life long fascination with space flight. 
Now I'm an engineer, trying desperately to figure out how to start a
small private space launch firm.  My favorite hobby is trying to figure
out how to really get to the stars.  Makes my head hurt sometimes.


Jim A. Clem, B.S.E.
CEO and Founder, Diasporan Industries, Inc.
www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081/
Traveller Geek Code tc+ tm !tn tt t4+ ru+() ge++ !3i jt au (+) st ls(+)
pi+ he++ merc++ dt+++
GM:  The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:08:01 -0700
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller

Gentle Men,

I believe I am older than anyone who has responded giving dates, and I
am still counting. I have watched all of the events as described, albeit
probably after the fact, on the late news or re-run specials, and I own
a significant number of Traveller items. I have had the opportunity to
*play* in an adventure or campaign except in my own minds eye. Would
that still qualify me for or as an 'Old Traveller' ????

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:02:24 PDT
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller

How bout if you watched the first lunar landing?  Maybe that doesn't 
qualify as "old" but its amazing what people weren't BORN to remember 
these days!

>I'd say, anyone who started playing before 1980.  I didn't see the 
first
>Mercury launch, but I do remember the Geminis.
>
>
>Jim A. Clem, B.S.E.
>CEO and Founder, Diasporan Industries, Inc.
>www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081/

Greg Smith
Retired Merchant Captain MacLintock
Diasporan Industries, Inc.
New Home Offices

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:07:57 -0700
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Stealth 'Paint'

Hello all,

	I just read a response on the SW-RPG talk line. It was in response to 
'....stats for refractive paint. Sensor deflective stuff, like on the
stealth bomber?'
to which the reply was
'Actually there's nothing special painted on the fuselage of the stealth 
bomber that makes it invisible to radar.  It's simply the shape of the
craft that makes it undetectable.
Traditional aircraft design led engineers to create aircraft with
smooth, curved shapes to better contour it for aerodynamic flight. 
Later on, modern testing showed that FLAT surfaces reflected radar waves
away in such a manner that they were not able to be received by the
radar station on the ground....thus making it invisible.'
Is this correct? If so then could we reduce the cost of our ships by the
that same amount. Not much, but every little bit helps.

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 13:25:38 -0400
From: warmind@juno.com (james a clem)
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller

On Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:02:24 PDT "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
writes:
>How bout if you watched the first lunar landing?  Maybe that doesn't 
>qualify as "old" but its amazing what people weren't BORN to remember 
>these days!
>

Now theres a reasonable criteria.  I was eight years old, got to sit up
late that night.  I was mightily impressed.


Jim A. Clem, B.S.E.
CEO and Founder, Diasporan Industries, Inc.
www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081/
Traveller Geek Code tc+ tm !tn tt t4+ ru+() ge++ !3i jt au (+) st ls(+)
pi+ he++ merc++ dt+++
GM:  The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM

_____________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 13:35:18 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: Stealth 'Paint'

IIRC, several years ago a company here in the US developed a paint that was
able to lower the relected radar waves by a substantial amount.  It seems
there was some granular compound in the paint that helped it to achieve
this 'stealth'.  This was in the early 90's.

Kurt

At 10:07 AM 7/20/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Hello all,
>
>	I just read a response on the SW-RPG talk line. It was in response to 
>'....stats for refractive paint. Sensor deflective stuff, like on the
>stealth bomber?'
>to which the reply was
>'Actually there's nothing special painted on the fuselage of the stealth 
>bomber that makes it invisible to radar.  It's simply the shape of the
>craft that makes it undetectable.
>Traditional aircraft design led engineers to create aircraft with
>smooth, curved shapes to better contour it for aerodynamic flight. 
>Later on, modern testing showed that FLAT surfaces reflected radar waves
>away in such a manner that they were not able to be received by the
>radar station on the ground....thus making it invisible.'
>Is this correct? If so then could we reduce the cost of our ships by the
>that same amount. Not much, but every little bit helps.
>
>Jim
> 

Kurt Feltenberger

“We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a
habit.”
- --- Aristotle ---

mailto:kurt@blazenet.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 13:28:10 -0400
From: warmind@juno.com (james a clem)
Subject: Re: Stealth 'Paint'

Well, not entirely true.  The shape does have a lot to do with it, but
even if there is no special paint, the materials do have a lot to do with
it.  Graphite composites make good stealthy materials, while metals
don't.  So the costs do still tend to go up, due to the use of exotic
materials.


Jim A. Clem, B.S.E.
CEO and Founder, Diasporan Industries, Inc.
www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081/
Traveller Geek Code tc+ tm !tn tt t4+ ru+() ge++ !3i jt au (+) st ls(+)
pi+ he++ merc++ dt+++
GM:  The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM

On Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:07:57 -0700 Jim Cooper
<Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca> writes:
>Hello all,
>
>	I just read a response on the SW-RPG talk line. It was in 
>response to 
>'....stats for refractive paint. Sensor deflective stuff, like on the
>stealth bomber?'
>to which the reply was
>'Actually there's nothing special painted on the fuselage of the 
>stealth 
>bomber that makes it invisible to radar.  It's simply the shape of the
>craft that makes it undetectable.
>Traditional aircraft design led engineers to create aircraft with
>smooth, curved shapes to better contour it for aerodynamic flight. 
>Later on, modern testing showed that FLAT surfaces reflected radar 
>waves
>away in such a manner that they were not able to be received by the
>radar station on the ground....thus making it invisible.'
>Is this correct? If so then could we reduce the cost of our ships by 
>the
>that same amount. Not much, but every little bit helps.
>
>Jim
>
>

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:50:10 PDT
From: "Odin Sveinsson" <helsefyr34@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller and Imperium Games

Marc,

	I just one question, when will T5 be coming out? Now I've
been playing and buying Traveller stuff now for 22 years and well
I guess I will always buy it. I just hope you don't do what TSR
did, and just make a few cosmetic changes and try to sell it as
a all "New" version. That has begun to turn me off to buying the
games stuff that changes every couple of years. It is one of the reasons 
I stopped being in HIWG and the reason I created many
of my own house rules.

Penn Eckert

PS: I liked your idea of the Faraway referee created sector idea!


>From: CardSharks@aol.com
>
>Not quite a true parallel. Imperium retains no rights; they have all 
reverted
>to Far Future. Imperium has a warehouse full of goods that they can't 
sell
>unless I say so, and I won't say so unless they come up with some 
really good
>motivation for me. In fact, because they can't sell thm, the goods 
aren't an
>overhang on the market when T5 comes out.
>
>Marc
>


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:58:50 PDT
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller

The Lunar Landing was 19 years ago today, by the way...

obtrav:  Maybe its written up somewhere, but what would the crew think 
when they first made contact with the 1st Empire?  Did they know that 
there were other starfaring races out there and were just confirming it 
or was it totally unexpected?  What would have been the response to 
Terra had Neil Armstrong stepped out, made his comments, then had a 
Vilani step up and say, "Congratulations, Cdr Armstrong.  What took you 
so long?"

Greg Smith



>>How bout if you watched the first lunar landing?  Maybe that doesn't 
>>qualify as "old" but its amazing what people weren't BORN to remember 
>>these days!
>>
>
>Now theres a reasonable criteria.  I was eight years old, got to sit up
>late that night.  I was mightily impressed.
>
>
>Jim A. Clem, B.S.E.
>CEO and Founder, Diasporan Industries, Inc.
>www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081/
>Traveller Geek Code tc+ tm !tn tt t4+ ru+() ge++ !3i jt au (+) st ls(+)
>pi+ he++ merc++ dt+++
>GM:  The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM
>
>_____________________________________________________________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
>Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 12:38:25 -0600
From: "Gordon Horne" <ghorne@shaw.wave.ca>
Subject: Re: Stealth 'Paint' (long)

>Hello all,
>
>	I just read a response on the SW-RPG talk line. It was in response to
>'....stats for refractive paint. Sensor deflective stuff, like on the
>stealth bomber?'
>to which the reply was
>'Actually there's nothing special painted on the fuselage of the stealth
>bomber that makes it invisible to radar.  It's simply the shape of the
>craft that makes it undetectable.
>Traditional aircraft design led engineers to create aircraft with
>smooth, curved shapes to better contour it for aerodynamic flight.
>Later on, modern testing showed that FLAT surfaces reflected radar waves
>away in such a manner that they were not able to be received by the
>radar station on the ground....thus making it invisible.'
>Is this correct? If so then could we reduce the cost of our ships by the
>that same amount. Not much, but every little bit helps.
>
>Jim

It's not correct in that it's not "simply" the shape of the aircraft that
makes it invisible to radar. Assuming that the "stealth bomber" is the B-2,
it also makes extensive use of radar absorbant materials (RAM) to reduce
its radar cross-section (RCS).

When considering stealth a designer must consider both the reflective
properties of the design (dependent on shape and material) and generated
signals (electronic and thermal from on-board systems).

Reflections
  Shape
    Avoid dihedrals, corners and cavities.
  Materials
    Use absorbant materials on all exterior surfaces or low-reflection
materials for _all_ systems and subsystems throughout the craft (i.e.
wooden engines!).

Note that both the F-117 and B-2 have engine intakes and exhausts on the
upper wing surface so that the wing body sheilds the cavities from
ground_based radar.
Most present generation warplanes have canted tailplanes to avoid dihedrals
and RAM at wing roots.

Generated Signals
  Engine exhaust
    Mask it (A-10) or disperse it (AH-64).
  Engine and system heat
    Trap it or direct it to specific port where it can be treated like exhaust.
  System electronic signiture
    Sheild it.
  Airframe/hull heat
    Minimize generation by restricting manuvers or by using materials which
do not radiate IR except at _extremely_ high temperatures.
  Lights
    Turn off the lights or close the shutters :->


The F-117 relies heavily upon faceting to reduce its RCS. By the time the
B-2 was designed, however, 'stealth' materials had advanced to the point
that the bomber could use more aerodynamically appropriate shapes. It is
often stated that images of the newer B-2 were released before images of
the older F-117 because a photo would reveal _all_ of the F-117's tricks
while the B-2's secrets are not visible to the naked eye.

In short (too late ;-> ), stealth is a complex field. See if your local
library has _Stealth:_deception,_evasion,_and_concealment_in_the_air_ by
Doug Richardson, Orion Books; New York, 1989. It is an excellent lay
introduction to the topic.


Gordon Horne
ghorne@shaw.wave.ca
=======================
Saru mo ki kara ochiru.
=======================

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #673
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Monday, July 20 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 674



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Starting Traveller
re: Adventures/Suppliments covering District 268 and borders?
Re: Starting Traveller
re: Adventures/Suppliments covering District 268 and borders?
Re: Referree Generated Sectors? 
Re: Starting Traveller
Re: ADMIN: List Behavior 
Less combat oriented rules
Re: Starting Traveller 
M:IW Design : Tokyo Class (longish)
Re: Starting Traveller 
Re: Starting Traveller 
Re: Less combat oriented rules
Re: Less combat oriented rules
Re: Starting Traveller 
Re: Starting Traveller
Planetoid ships in TNE
Re: Adventures/Suppliments covering District 268 and borders?
Re: Starting Traveller
Re: Planetoid ships in TNE
Re: Stealth 'Paint'
Re: Adventures/Suppliments covering District 268 and borders?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 13:45:47 -0500
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller

>The Lunar Landing was 19 years ago today, by the way...
                       ^^
WHAT??? Terra put men on the moon on July 20th, 1979? Are you sure? I've
got to call HQ! :-)

Ciao,

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 14:51:59 -0400
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: re: Adventures/Suppliments covering District 268 and borders?

Michael Kent wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I'm looking for published adventures and suppliments that cover all or
parts of the Spinward Marches centered on District 268, including
Glisten, 268 itself, and Five Sisters (anyone care to guess where my
campaign will be situated? :o)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Adventure 4, Leviathan, is centered on adventures in Egyrn subsector.
Egyrn is lies in the Trojan Reach sector, just across the sector border
to rimward of District 268. The adventure also includes a map
of the Pax Rulin subsector, just to rimward of Glisten. Close enough?

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 11:54:13 PDT
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller

Yeah, and I'm not worried about Y2K either, cause I've got 11 years to 
go, and at least someone will fix it by then!

:->

Can you say...  Ooooops?

Cheers,

Greg


>From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
>Subject: Re: Starting Traveller
>Reply-To: traveller@MPGN.COM
>
>>The Lunar Landing was 19 years ago today, by the way...
>                       ^^
>WHAT??? Terra put men on the moon on July 20th, 1979? Are you sure? 
I've
>got to call HQ! :-)
>
>Ciao,
>
>Joseph R. Dietrich
>yikes@evansville.net
>
>
>


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 13:07:30 -0600
From: "Gordon Horne" <ghorne@shaw.wave.ca>
Subject: re: Adventures/Suppliments covering District 268 and borders?

>Michael Kent wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>I'm looking for published adventures and suppliments that cover all or
>parts of the Spinward Marches centered on District 268, including
>Glisten, 268 itself, and Five Sisters (anyone care to guess where my
>campaign will be situated? :o)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

_Tarsus:world_beyond_the_frontier_ includes a map of District 268, UWP for
all worlds of 268, extensive information and maps of Tarsus (District 268
0308, Spinward Marches 1138), and very brief library data entries on
Collace (District 268 0407), Forine (District 268 0703), Fornice (Mora
0605) and Pavabid (District 268 0408).



Gordon Horne
ghorne@shaw.wave.ca
=======================
Saru mo ki kara ochiru.
=======================

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 16:01:00 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Referree Generated Sectors? 

> >There *is* a small "however" associated with SJG's GT and _Behind The
> >Claw_, though.  It doesn't look like they will be using UWP's to
> >describe the main worlds.  Ok, UWP's aren't a GURPS thing, but I
> >certainly wish they would include them even if they didn't explain them
> >in the text at all.  UWP's don't provide nearly enough information to
> >really detail a system, but they are a quick and convenient shorthand
> >that I'll hate to lose.
> 
>   Perhaps they (SJG) could at least make the 1120 SM UWP's available
> on the web-site just like the TNS updates, etc?

I wouldn't hold my breath.  SJG likes doing things *their* way.

Keven
- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 16:14:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Joseph M. Saul" <jmsaul@us.itd.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller

Jim Clem wrote:

>I'd say, anyone who started playing before 1980.  I didn't see the first
>Mercury launch, but I do remember the Geminis.

I don't think you want to set the line that way.  I first played Traveller in
1978-79, but I'm only 32.

Joe Saul
jmsaul@umich.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 16:13:17 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: List Behavior 

> Just a reminder:
> 
> o	Please, no vulgarity
> o	Keep the discussions on topic
> o	Please be courteous
> o	No flames.  If someone ticks you off, just ignore them.

Can't we shoot them, Rob?  Just to *wound* mind you...

Keven
- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 16:25:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Macpherson <john35@wharton.upenn.edu>
Subject: Less combat oriented rules

 
"chauncey smith" <Csmith@icdc.com> wrote:
> On the Traveller Rules I like the ones from TNE as the most advance set to
> date.

	I couldn't agree more.  The TNE rules were the first thing that 
brought me back to Trav.

> one example of this is using Corp or TIMELORDS to make the game lest
> inducive to volence or Fudge for simpler craft design...

	What is it about Corp & TIMELORDS that you think makes them less 
inducive to violence?  I'm always looking for ways to make non-combat 
adventures more fun and more the focus of the game.
 
- -JM

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 16:25:19 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller 

> Gentle Men,
> 
> I believe I am older than anyone who has responded giving dates, and I
> am still counting. I have watched all of the events as described, albeit
> probably after the fact, on the late news or re-run specials, and I own
> a significant number of Traveller items. I have had the opportunity to
> *play* in an adventure or campaign except in my own minds eye. Would
> that still qualify me for or as an 'Old Traveller' ????

Yup.

Course, most of *my* Travelling over the years has been solo stuff or PBEMs.

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 21:27:45 +0100
From: Rob Day <rob@glisten.demon.co.uk>
Subject: M:IW Design : Tokyo Class (longish)

Hi,

A design from the end of the Interstellar Wars period (the 9th and Nth),
using component armour (the 'Citadel' concept), rather than a highly
armoured hull.

For other designs from the same period, and an expanded description of
this one, check out the web page at
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/2555/ships.htm

Paris, Tokyo Class Ship of the Line (FFS2 Akins)
Statistics
  Tons: 75000std ( SL Wedge Hypersonic )
  Crew: 1969/2343
  Cargo: 181std (0/1 /Hdl:2x20ton0 /Ar:70 [369])        
  Volume: 1050000m3
  Passengers High/Med: 4/30
  Cost: 125552.869 MCr  
  Mass (L/C): 1663975t/1638566t
  Passengers Low: 0
  Maintenance Points: 76548     
  Dimensions: 317.8m x 218.2m x 90.8m
  Troops/Science: 0/0
  Tech Level: 12        
  Size: 10
  Frozen Watch: 0               
Electronics
  Controls (/Ar: 290 [19970]): Dynamic, High automation. 20xFibComp
(CM:0.35 CP:2.86). 
      Bridge (/Ar:290[19970]).
  Communications (/Ar: 130 [1939]):
    3xRadio (500,000km, 0.17MW).
    3xLaser (1,000AU, 0MW).                             
  Sensors (/Ar: 200 [6268]):
    1xPEMS (14.5 [160mkm], 1MW).
    1xAEMS (12.5 [5mkm], 250MW).
    4xSci LIDAR (15.5 [5mkm] Sci, 6MW).                          
  Survey/Science (/Ar :200 [6268]):                             
  ECM (/Ar: 200  [6268]):
    2xRadio Jammer (1,000AU, 0.4MW).
    1xArea. Jammer (12, 1250MW).
    1xDecp. Jammer (13, 25MW).
    1xPas. Jammer (16, 10MW).                           
  Signatures: Vis:-0.5, IR:1 (1 at 275126MW, 0.5 at 31453MW), Act:0.5,
Neu:2, Grav:2

Weaponry
  100xLaser Turret (+4) 1/3-3-3-2 [1,100/61-61-46-23] (LR /Ar:160
[2876])
  10xPD Laser Turret (+4) 1/0-0-0-0 [1,800/13-7-3-2] (LR /Ar:160 [2876])
  2xMissile Turret Auto 10/10 ( /Mag:66 /MFD:500,000km /Ar:160 [2876])
    w/76 Cmd DL 1d6/2 6.0G12 1000AU
  12xBay PAW (+4) 2/8-8-8-4 [1,50/318-318-304-152] (LR /Ar:160 [2876])
  1xHeavy Spinal Meson (+4) 2/10-8-5-3 [1,50/669-335-167-84] (LR /Ar:200
[6268])
  8xBay Meson (+4) 2/5-3-2-1 [1,50/167-84-42-21] (LR /Ar:160 [2876])

Performance
  3     Jump (7500std/pc fuel /Ar:290 [19970])  
  6/6   Maneuver (/Thruster:247538MW /Ar:290 [19970])   
  1/1   Contra-grav (26954MW /Ar:290 [19970])   
  5000kph/5000kph       Atmosphere (/Crus:3750kph/3750kph)      
  8     Power (/Fus:314525MW,0.3yr  /Ar:290 [19970])    
  0     Battery 
  23342.5       Fuel (/Scoop:1 /Purif:220,53MW /Ar:70 [369])    
  0/1182/15/0/0 Accomodations (/Ar: 100 [867])  
  30901 Life Sup. (/Ty:Ex,Nm /'St /Ar:290 [19970])      
  3     G-Comp ( /Ar:290 [19970])       
  0     ESA     
  10    Sandcasters ( /AV:369 /Cans:10 /Ar:130 [1939])  
  6     Damper Turrets (50MW /Rng:100000km0 /Ar:130 [1939])     
  0     Damper Screen   
  0     Meson Screen    
  0     Force Field     
  0     Gravtics        
  20 [63]       Armor, 59 Structure     

Features
  730xAirlock
  20xDecontamination Airlock
  2xDocking Umbilical   
  3xElectronic Shop (6std ea. /Ar:70 [369])
  3xMachine Shop (10std ea. /Ar:70 [369])               
  6xSickbay (8std ea. /Ar:70 [369])
  1xShip's locker (37.5std ea. /Ar:70 [369])
  23xPrisoner Capacity (20/2/1 /Ar:70 [369])    
  1xArmory (2.14std ea. /Ar:70 [369])
  10xGym (2.5std ea. /Ar:70 [369])              
  24xFull Galley (Cap:100 /Ar: 100 [867])               

Small Craft
  2xMinHgr (50std, 2 hatches /Ar:70 [369])
  8xMinHgr (10std, 4 hatches /Ar:70 [369])              
  4xDockRing (10std /Ar:70 [369])               

Backups
  Drives:                               
  Screens:                              
  Communications:                               
  Sensors:
    2xPEMS (14 [50mkm]).
    2xAEMS (12 [1.6mkm]).
    20xSci LIDAR (15 [2mkm] Sci).                               
  Survey/Science:                               
  ECM:
    2xArea. Jammer (11).
    1xDecp. Jammer (12).
    2xPas. Jammer (15).                                 
  Power & Fuel:                                 

Crew Details
  9xMnvr.
  1xElec.
  1458xEngr.
  181xMain.
  188xGunn.
  8xScrn.
  80xTrps.
  320xCmnd.
  79xStew.
  19xMed.

Historical Notes 

Once the Terrans realised how much of an advantage the Meson Gun would
give them in combat with Vilani vessels, tactics were devised which
would allow the maximum use of the weapon. The result was the Tokyo
class Ship of the Line. 
The Terran reasoning was that, as the Meson Gun was able to bypass the
armour of the target, then extremely powerful weapons were not required.
What was required instead was a larger number of weapons, to enable more
hits to be inflicted. 
The main armament of the Tokyo's is a comparatively low powered Meson
spinal mount. By accepting the smaller (though still deadly to any
vessel it hits) main weapon, the secondary armament could be greatly
increased. This was important because part of the secondary armament
were 8 bay-mounted Meson Guns (in addition to 12 powerful bay-mounted
PAWs), each of which could inflict critical damage to any opponent. 
The tactics the Terrans used with these vessels was to use their high
acceleration to close to short range with an opponent, relying on the
extremely heavy armour and reinforced structure (capable of handling
20g, the same as most other Terran warships) of the vessels to absorb
the fire of the opposing vessel. At short range the Meson Guns would be
at their most effective, although in theory remaining at long range
would still allow the destruction on any enemy ship, although the lower
damage inflicted at long range would mean that the destruction would
take longer. 
As with other Terran ships of the line of the time, an apparent weakness
is the limited size of the fuel purification system (purification of a
full load taking more than nine standard days). However, the vessel was
intended to operate as part of a fleet with attendant support vessels,
so the purification system provided is intended purely as an emergency
backup. 
The class as a whole were higher effective, and very popular with their
crews. Before construction ceased a total of 140 were built, and they
saw extensive combat throughout the Ninth and Nth wars. The first of the
class, the Tokyo, joined the fleet in 2277AD, and the last, the Lima,
joined in 2295AD. 

Btw, if anybody ever did produce those Andy Akins t-shirts that were
mentioned, then I'd be up for one (and probably so would plenty of
others :)

Regards,

Rob.
- -- 
Rob Day
rob@glisten.demon.co.uk

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 16:29:52 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller 

> How bout if you watched the first lunar landing?  Maybe that doesn't 
> qualify as "old" but its amazing what people weren't BORN to remember 
> these days!
> 
> >I'd say, anyone who started playing before 1980.  I didn't see the 
> first
> >Mercury launch, but I do remember the Geminis.

Some of us remember the heady days of Sputnik and Yuri Gagarin.  <ducking>

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 16:34:16 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller 

> >The Lunar Landing was 19 years ago today, by the way...
>                        ^^
> WHAT??? Terra put men on the moon on July 20th, 1979? Are you sure? I've
> got to call HQ! :-)

29 years ago, actually.  I was out of touch with the world at the time, didn't hear about it til I got back, in '72.

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 08:41:58 +1200
From: Steve Rennell <wulf@sea.southern.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Less combat oriented rules

John Macpherson  wrote:
>  What is it about Corp & TIMELORDS that you think makes them less 
> inducive to violence?  

After a half a dozen characters get cut down in the first 
firefight, then characters either start playing smart, 
(shooting from cover, never giving a sucker a stand up 
firefight, etc) or they try and avoid getting shot at wherever 
possible by not getting into shoot-outs.

Steve

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 14:45:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
Subject: Re: Less combat oriented rules

On Mon, 20 Jul 1998, John Macpherson wrote:

> 	What is it about Corp & TIMELORDS that you think makes them less 
> inducive to violence?  I'm always looking for ways to make non-combat 
> adventures more fun and more the focus of the game.

As I recall, Timelords is an extremely unforgiving game. You should worry
about getting shot in character as much as you would worry in real life
(it's a fairly deadly combat system).  Non-violent methods are always
better in such systems.  (Duh!)

Ben

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 14:48:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller 

> > >The Lunar Landing was 19 years ago today, by the way...
> >                        ^^
> 29 years ago, actually.  I was out of touch with the world 
at the time, didn't hear about it til I got back, in '72.

Okay, I'll bite. Where could you go to avoid hearing about the moon
landing for three years?

Ben

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 17:56:21 -0400
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller

Sure Jim, you didn't say how old you are or when you were born though.  I
think to fully qualify as a official "Traveller Gnarly Old Fart" you would
have to have been born before 1955.  Actually the abbreviation of Trav - GOF
seems appropriate.

Eris has 3 months on me and I was born Oct.. 7, 1951.  (Is July right Eris?)

Thom (still remembering getting out of junior high when JFK was shot) Harris

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller


>Gentle Men,
>
>I believe I am older than anyone who has responded giving dates, and I
>am still counting. I have watched all of the events as described, albeit
>probably after the fact, on the late news or re-run specials, and I own
>a significant number of Traveller items. I have had the opportunity to
>*play* in an adventure or campaign except in my own minds eye. Would
>that still qualify me for or as an 'Old Traveller' ????
>
>Jim
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 22:44:11 +0100
From: "Paul James" <paul@turing.tcp.co.uk>
Subject: Planetoid ships in TNE

I want to use a sub-light colony vessel (i.e. a launch now, arrive 400 year
later thing) in my campaign but would like to design it. I have noticed
after borrowing a friends copy of high guard & mt mention of ships created
from hollowed out planetoids which would be ideal for this purpose but I
couldn't see any rules in FFS for doing this. Are there any or do people
have suggestions (or even better anyone have a design of the colony ships
used to reach the new & old islands?).

Cheers

Paul
(still running round like a headless chicken trying to get prepared for his
first traveller game)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 15:07:06 -0700
From: Sanders <timmon@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Adventures/Suppliments covering District 268 and borders?

At 11:05 AM 7/20/98 -0400, you wrote:
>I'm looking for published adventures and suppliments that cover all or
>parts of the Spinward Marches centered on District 268, including
>Glisten, 268 itself, and Five Sisters (anyone care to guess where my
>campaign will be situated? :o)
>
>I've seen one mention that the Tarsus module covers 268.  Is that
>correct?

Yes - Tarsus and Beltstrike are both set in District 268. In addition,
Faldor and Volentine Gambit (set on Mertactor) are also set in District
268. I'm still keying in the info. from the booklet in Gambit, but it and
Faldor will both be out by this Christmas.

Paul Sanders

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 12:57:24 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Monday, July 20, 1998 12:54 PM
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller


>Gentle Men,
>
>I believe I am older than anyone who has responded giving dates, and I
>am still counting. I have watched all of the events as described, albeit
>probably after the fact, on the late news or re-run specials, and I own
>a significant number of Traveller items. I have had the opportunity to
>*play* in an adventure or campaign except in my own minds eye. Would
>that still qualify me for or as an 'Old Traveller' ????
>
>Jim
>
>

Jim,

Since Eris has gant admission to me (thank you Eris... I think), please
allow me to extend the same to you. Welocome GEEZER! uh, sorry I have to go
now... it's time for my medicine and nap. (rolling off in his wheel chair).

Mike Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com
"Help Wanted: Telepath, You know where to apply!"  unknown, bumper sticker.
Member of the Old Traveller GEEZER Club, and proud of it!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 15:20:02 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Planetoid ships in TNE

Paul James wrote:
> 
> I want to use a sub-light colony vessel (i.e. a launch now, arrive 400 year
> later thing) in my campaign but would like to design it. I have noticed
> after borrowing a friends copy of high guard & mt mention of ships created
> from hollowed out planetoids which would be ideal for this purpose but I
> couldn't see any rules in FFS for doing this. Are there any or do people
> have suggestions (or even better anyone have a design of the colony ships
> used to reach the new & old islands?).

Actually both FFS and FFS2 have planetoid hull design sequences,
somewhere in the hull design sections. (NB: One excellent reason to
telecommute...you have all your Traveller books at hand ;-)

The tricky part is coming up with a power, drive and fuel supply for
that 400 year journey. You'll have to look into the 'Alternate
technology' for drive technology.

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 16:43:54 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Stealth 'Paint'

At 10:07 am 7/20/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Hello all,
>
>	I just read a response on the SW-RPG talk line. It was in response
to 
>'....stats for refractive paint. Sensor deflective stuff, like on
the
>stealth bomber?'
>to which the reply was
>'Actually there's nothing special painted on the fuselage of the
stealth 
>bomber that makes it invisible to radar.  It's simply the shape of
the
>craft that makes it undetectable.

	There *is* a special coating on many stealth aircraft. In fact,
there are many different types of coatings. Stealth (vs active
sensors) is based on reducing the amount of energy reflected back to
the sensor. Therefore, you can either reduce all reflection by
coating the plane with something that absorbs the frequencies used by
sensors, or you can shape the surfaces such that reflections don't go
back the way the came.

	One classic coating is microspheres of carbon suspended in the
paint, which are "just" the right size to absorb and/or scatter the
frequency of the sensor you want to protect against. At one time, you
could even by a "bra" for your Porsche or Corvette that supposedly
absorbed police radar.

	Beyond just coatings, there's the basic material of the aircraft
itself. Wood and fabric don't show up on radar worth beans.

	Side note: supposedly, the cockpit windows for the F-117 had to be
specially designed, when somebody realized the pilot's helmet would
cause a greater return than the rest of the airplane.

>Traditional aircraft design led engineers to create aircraft with
>smooth, curved shapes to better contour it for aerodynamic flight. 
>Later on, modern testing showed that FLAT surfaces reflected radar
waves
>away in such a manner that they were not able to be received by the
>radar station on the ground....thus making it invisible.'
>Is this correct? If so then could we reduce the cost of our ships by
the

	Unfortunately, there's something called bistatic sensors: the
transmitter is at one place, and the receiver is at another. So if
the contour is designed not to reflect back, it may actually be
reflecting straight at the receiver ...

	It's also not just the surfaces, but the edges and joints.

	Much more to go into here, but I won't. To summarize, whoever
claimed there were no stealth coatings is incorrect.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 18:22:25 -0500
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@fastlane.net>
Subject: Re: Adventures/Suppliments covering District 268 and borders?

At 03:07 PM 7/20/1998 -0700, Paul Sanders wrote:

>Yes - Tarsus and Beltstrike are both set in District 268. In addition,
>Faldor and Volentine Gambit (set on Mertactor) are also set in District
>268. I'm still keying in the info. from the booklet in Gambit, but it and
>Faldor will both be out by this Christmas.
>
Uh...  What is Volentine Gambit?  I don't remember seeing it on your list
of upcoming Keith products.

Jimmy Simpson
	nimrodd@fastlane.net
"Cannot say.
 Saying, I would know.
 Do not know.
 So cannot say."
		-Zathras (Babylon 5)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #674
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Tuesday, July 21 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 675



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re Keith Brothers Products
Re Stealth
Re Old Traveller
**BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**
Re: Referee Created Sectors ?
Re: Referee Created Sectors ?
re: Adventures/Suppliments covering District 268 and borders?
Re: Less combat oriented rules
Re: Traveller GEEZER Club...
Re: Re Old Traveller
Re: Re Stealth
Planetoid ships in TNE
Re: Traveller and Imperium Games
Re: Crime and punishment
Re: Planetoid ships in TNE
M:IW sector data
Re: Adventure in Dist. 268
re: Adventures/Suppliments covering District 268 and borders?
Re: Less combat oriented rules
RE Other Systems
Re: Starting Traveller
Re: Starting Traveller

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 15:05:22 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re Keith Brothers Products

I'm willing to buy copies of any of them. Wish I still had mountain and
undersea environments. WOnder if you could see about a consolidated
"Envioronments" volume, rather than just the one.

Of the list posted, I'm most interested in Arctic Environment.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 15:30:51 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re Stealth

>Hello all,
>
>	I just read a response on the SW-RPG talk line. It was in response to
>'....stats for refractive paint. Sensor deflective stuff, like on the
>stealth bomber?'
>to which the reply was
>'Actually there's nothing special painted on the fuselage of the stealth
>bomber that makes it invisible to radar.  It's simply the shape of the
>craft that makes it undetectable.
>Traditional aircraft design led engineers to create aircraft with
>smooth, curved shapes to better contour it for aerodynamic flight.
>Later on, modern testing showed that FLAT surfaces reflected radar waves
>away in such a manner that they were not able to be received by the
>radar station on the ground....thus making it invisible.'
>Is this correct? If so then could we reduce the cost of our ships by the
>that same amount. Not much, but every little bit helps.
>
>Jim

What I've read and seen on TV indicates that the shape is the primary
factor, and certain materials are used to further reduce signal. RAM tape
is used to cover the joints and door edges; the surface is some kind of
semi-RAM material at optimal agles for radar deflection, and the grills are
special material and construction. [RAM = Radar Absorbent Material]

The important factor IIUC is a dimond/lozenge shape, slanted back.

One design I've seen is similar to the following

- ------------------------------------------

 RAM

\    /\    /\    /\    /\    /\    /\    /
 \  /  \  /  \  /  \  /  \  /  \  /  \  /
  \/    \/    \/    \/    \/    \/    \/
RRM (Radar Reflective Material)
- ------------------------------------------

Basically, the stuff reduces even direct signature by use of andlged
diamond reflection under a RAM layer, and when combined with stealth
shaping modes, is supposed to really reduce signatures. Above illo based
upon one I saw in Scientific American YEARS ago (the late '80's)


William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 15:20:41 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re Old Traveller

>
>How bout if you watched the first lunar landing?  Maybe that doesn't
>qualify as "old" but its amazing what people weren't BORN to remember
>these days!
>
I remember watching the LAST televised one... Alaska didn't have much live
TV back then... Evening news was even flown in...

IMO, Old Travellers means having Played or Run traveller (even if only the
solo activities) prior to the release of MT in 1987, and being willing to
admit to being that old.

I remember the Challenger Disaster, Reagan getting shot, An apollr landing,
the fall of the wall, the collapse of the curtain, and neighbors never
coming home from the 'nam, and even Walter Cronkite saying "The war is
over; we are out of Vietnam. Good Night, America, and God Bless." at the
end of a news broadcast. My first real memory of a news event. I was
playing with legos on the living room floor...

True, a number of you are older, and true, mayny have been playing longer,
but to Me, You've been playing a long time if you remember a time before a
change of system mechanics.

Then again, Traveller seems to be what you make of it....

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 23:40:05 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**

BITS announces the latest book from CORE, "101 Governments", written by
David Thomas (whose previous BITS credits include 101 Lifeforms).

This is the latest in the 'little white book' 101 Series, and the first
since IG's stopped producing new Traveller material. The book is the
longest in the 101 Series at 56 pages, and is packed with details of
governments from code 0 through to D. Each government has a description,
combined with referee's notes and a plot hook. There are exactly 101 in the
book, including several from the old flame war favourite, Feudal
Technocracies.

These take 52 pages - the rest include a single page glossary and three
pages of introduction/titles. The cover is a digitally enhanced photo, as
the artist who produced the previous covers has left the country.

101 Governments - by David Thomas - Edited by Andy Lilly- Published by BITS
- - ISBN1 901228 09 6
Cost UK Sterling 4.50

Availability:
- -----------

22 advance copies were produced for Games Fest 98 in Harlow, Uk, this
weekend past. 10 of these went to Leisure Games

http://www.btinternet.com/~leisuregames

The remainder were sold at the BITS stand. Further supplies should become
available over the next fortnight of so...

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 00:00:02 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Referee Created Sectors ?

Doug Berry wrote:

>Well, we have the official numbering at any rate.  T4.1 is dead, Long live
>T5!!!

I'd prefer to see T4.1, as it means that people won't feel as ripped off by
Imperium's mess ups...

And the draft rules set seemed somewhat incremental?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 00:14:56 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Referee Created Sectors ?

"Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz> wrote:

>From:           	dberry@hooked.net
>> Well, we have the official numbering at any rate.  T4.1 is dead, Long live
>> T5!!!
>Its not dead, its just pining

NO! Stop that right now. Or a bunny with big pointy teeth will get you...

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 00:22:25 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Adventures/Suppliments covering District 268 and borders?

Michael Kent <mkent@atlantic.net> wrote:

>I'm looking for published adventures and suppliments that cover all or
>parts of the Spinward Marches centered on District 268, including
>Glisten, 268 itself, and Five Sisters (anyone care to guess where my
>campaign will be situated? :o)
>
>I've seen one mention that the Tarsus module covers 268.  Is that
>correct?

Tarsus is a world in 268 (and in the Solomani Rim, but the boxed set is in
the SM)

Night of Conquest covers something in 268 IIRC
As does Safari Ship and Leviathan IIRC

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 19:19:51 -0400
From: "chauncey smith" <Csmith@icdc.com>
Subject: Re: Less combat oriented rules

- -----Original Message-----
From: John Macpherson <john35@wharton.upenn.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Monday, July 20, 1998 4:30 PM
Subject: Less combat oriented rules


>
>"chauncey smith" <Csmith@icdc.com> wrote:
>> one example of this is using Corp or TIMELORDS to make the game lest
>> inducive to volence or Fudge for simpler craft design...
>
> What is it about Corp & TIMELORDS that you think makes them less
>inducive to violence?  I'm always looking for ways to make non-combat
>adventures more fun and more the focus of the game.
>
>-JM
>
well Corp & Timelords don't use a hit point system to deal damage. Damage is
a system of impairments and negative modifiers to the Charater. This and the
stun rules stops players from rushing into combat because as soon as they
get hit , they start missing and it's hard to regain advantage agein. Or an
unlucky stun rule and your Charater is knocked unconsous with a lucky hit...

CORP is quick and clean.. TIMELORDS has lots of dice rolling but they both
have that inovative combat system.

Chauncey Smith AKA drkmage

With out heresay there may never be any change,
With out change there there death....... Dulinor

ITMU: tc tm+ tn++ ?tg tt !to ru ge+ 3i c++ jt- au+ st++ ls pi- ta++ he++
     kk hi+ as va ?dr ith+ ?vr ?ne so zh++ vi+ dr++ sy-

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 17:03:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Cook <markc@peak.org>
Subject: Re: Traveller GEEZER Club...

Thom Harris <thomharr@mediaone.net> writes:

> Eris has 3 months on me and I was born Oct. 7, 1951.  (Is July right Eris?)

and Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca> writes:

> Since Eris has gant admission to me (thank you Eris... I think), please
> allow me to extend the same to you. Welocome GEEZER! uh, sorry I have to go
> now... it's time for my medicine and nap. (rolling off in his wheel chair).
        ...
> Member of the Old Traveller GEEZER Club, and proud of it!

Well, I guess I probably qualify as well.  I'll be 43, this coming Dec.

Maybe we need to form some sort of "Geriatrics Club", like that one that
Lucas Garner is a member of in Larry Niven's "World of Ptavvs". :^)

        - Mark C.
          Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy
          EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75
          Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR
          NRA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)
          Front Sight First Family member #1

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 mark f. cook * mark cook consulting *  shoestring graphics & printing
 2055 s.w. whiteside dr. * corvallis, or, 97333-1406 * markc@ssgfx.com
 Phone: 541-753-2732      Fax: 541-753-2738       http://www.ssgfx.com
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
       "Where am I... and what am I doing in this handbasket?"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 18:07:00 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Re Old Traveller

At 03:20 pm 7/20/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>
>>How bout if you watched the first lunar landing?  Maybe that
doesn't
>>qualify as "old" but its amazing what people weren't BORN to
remember
>>these days!
>>
>I remember watching the LAST televised one... Alaska didn't have
much live
>TV back then... Evening news was even flown in...
>
>IMO, Old Travellers means having Played or Run traveller (even if
only the
>solo activities) prior to the release of MT in 1987, and being
willing to
>admit to being that old.

	D**n, you caught me. Wait, I have to admit, don't I?

>I remember the Challenger Disaster, Reagan getting shot, An apollr landing,
>the fall of the wall, the collapse of the curtain, and neighbors never
>coming home from the 'nam, and even Walter Cronkite saying "The war is
>over; we are out of Vietnam. Good Night, America, and God Bless." at the
>end of a news broadcast. My first real memory of a news event. I was 
>playing with legos on the living room floor...
>
>True, a number of you are older, and true, mayny have been playing longer,
>but to Me, You've been playing a long time if you remember a time before a
>change of system mechanics.

	Let's see, change from LBB 1-3 to LBB 4 (Mercenary), LBB 5 (High
Guard), LBB 6 (Scouts), MT, TNE, T4 ... six transitions so far and
counting.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 18:09:57 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Re Stealth

At 03:30 pm 7/20/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>One design I've seen is similar to the following
>
>------------------------------------------
>
> RAM
>
>\    /\    /\    /\    /\    /\    /\    /
> \  /  \  /  \  /  \  /  \  /  \  /  \  /
>  \/    \/    \/    \/    \/    \/    \/
>RRM (Radar Reflective Material)
>------------------------------------------

	The purpose of this particular layout is to increase the effective
path through the absorbent material taken by an incoming signal, and
hence increase the amount of absorbtion. Trace a path--the signal
comes in, gets partially absorbed by the RAM, then gets reflected at
an angle by the RRM. It crosses to the other side of the wedge, being
absorbed more by the RAM, and gets reflected again, crossing to the
other side ... until it finally gets reflected back out, and the
final amount gets absorbed on the last leg. Compare that to a simple
flat layer of RAM over RRM ...
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 21:11:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Macpherson <john35@wharton.upenn.edu>
Subject: Planetoid ships in TNE

 
"Paul James" <paul@turing.tcp.co.uk> wrote: 
> I want to use a sub-light colony vessel (i.e. a launch now, arrive 400 year
> later thing) in my campaign but would like to design it. I have noticed
> after borrowing a friends copy of high guard & mt mention of ships created
> from hollowed out planetoids which would be ideal for this purpose but I
> couldn't see any rules in FFS for doing this. Are there any or do people
> have suggestions (or even better anyone have a design of the colony ships
> used to reach the new & old islands?).

	A)  Rules for planetoid hulls aren't in FF&S but are in FF&S2.

	B)  Don't worry if you don't have FF&S2 because you wouldn't want 
to use a planetoid hull for a sub-light colony ship anyway.  The reason 
is that planetoid hulls have to be very massive to give you the same 
structural support as a metal hull.  What you really want is a 
feather-light hull of crystal-iron or, even better, super-dense.  Mass is 
at an absolute premium with a sub-light colony ship, and the less you 
waste on your hull the faster you reach your destination.  The only 
reason to use a planetoid hull for an stl ship is if you don't have the 
capability to build a metal hull large enough for your purposes.

	C)  FF&S2 _does_ have useful rules for stl ships' life support.  
It has options for extended life support that runs from different flavors 
of algae (yum!), all the way up to small domestic animals.

- -JM

P.S.  Email me and I'll forward you Steve Bonneville's <sp?> excellent 
post on stl ships and drives.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 22:35:34 EDT
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller and Imperium Games

In a message dated 98-07-20 13:51:51 EDT, you write:

<< 	I just one question, when will T5 be coming out? Now I've
 been playing and buying Traveller stuff now for 22 years and well
 I guess I will always buy it. I just hope you don't do what TSR
 did, and just make a few cosmetic changes and try to sell it as
 a all "New" version. >>

It will not be cosmetic changes.
I hope to see it out early 1999

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 10:21:37 -0500
From: "Pat Connaughton" <pconnaught@fiastl.net>
Subject: Re: Crime and punishment

Yes, Please send a copy along.
Thanks

Pat Connaughton
pconnaught@fiastl.net
"It's the only game in town"
ICQ Member # 2535086

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 21:50:57 -0600
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: Planetoid ships in TNE

>
>Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 22:44:11 +0100
>From: "Paul James" <paul@turing.tcp.co.uk>
>Subject: Planetoid ships in TNE
>
>I want to use a sub-light colony vessel (i.e. a launch now, arrive 400 year
>later thing) in my campaign but would like to design it. I have noticed
>after borrowing a friends copy of high guard & mt mention of ships created
>from hollowed out planetoids which would be ideal for this purpose but I
>couldn't see any rules in FFS for doing this. Are there any or do people
>have suggestions (or even better anyone have a design of the colony ships
>used to reach the new & old islands?).
>
>Cheers
>
>Paul
>(still running round like a headless chicken trying to get prepared for his
>first traveller game)
>

I'm working on the design of the ESA Long Range Colony Mission ships right
now.   They are up to 25,000,000 dtons and still climbing, and I haven't
even added the drives yet.  That's becuase the description specifies
asteroid ships, 110,000 crew and passengers, and 2400+ years duration.  For
what it's worth, I calculate the cruising velocity of those ships at 0.25c,
based on both the colonization times in the original background, and the
straight-line distance from Earth to the Islands Clusters divided by the
trip time (actually 0.23c).  

In versions of Traveller that use reactionless thrusters, these appear to
have been invented by the first interstellar wars (c. AD 2113); _Imperium_
has ships cruising at ~0.86c.  This is essentially impossible with reaction
drives, but will work with reactionless.  Note also that 0.86c corresponds
to a 50% time dilation (2 years planet time = 1 year ship time), which may
be one reason it was chosen.

My recommendation:  since TNE uses reaction drives (however flaky HEPlaR
may be, it's still a reaction drive), delta-V is important - keep your
designs as small and light on payload as possible.  The main advantage of
asteroid hulls is they are money-cheap.  They are also mass-pigs, which
becomes exponentially more important when you have to apply the rocket
equation to your design.

If you still want to fiddle with asteroids, use High Guard for the hull,
then apply FF&S normally to the fittings (at a cursory glance, I couldn't
find the asteroid hull treatment in FF&S referred to in another post).
Otherwise, write me offline and I can send you the notes I've collected
from various parts of the web.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 16:48:15 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: M:IW sector data

Okay, I've now finished the rough data for the Solomani Rim as at First Contact 
and as at the start of the Interstellar Wars. Its in standard Galatic 2.3 format. 
I'm going to put a link to it on my "ships of the Interstellar Wars" page. I would 
appreciate any comments.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 00:57:20 EDT
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re: Adventure in Dist. 268

Michael Kent <mkent@atlantic.net> asks:


>Subject: Adventures/Suppliments covering District 268 and borders?

>

>I'm looking for published adventures and suppliments that cover all or
>parts of the Spinward Marches centered on District 268, including
>Glisten, 268 itself, and Five Sisters (anyone care to guess where my
>campaign will be situated? :o)
>

>I've seen one mention that the Tarsus module covers 268.  Is that

>correct?


 Yes. Tarsus is one of the worlds in District 268. Adventure 10(?)
Safari Ship is also set in 268, and an Amber Zone from WAAAAY back
("Tarkine Down!") is set on Tarkine. Glisten (the world) got a big
write-up by DGP. These are what I remember off hand, but I don't
think Five Sisters has ever had any real attention paid to it...

 In the unpublished department, Rob Dean (the TMLs original gearhead)
designed a number of ships for Collace's Navy.

 GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 21:59:23 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: re: Adventures/Suppliments covering District 268 and borders?

At 12:22 AM 7/21/98 +0100, you wrote:

>Tarsus is a world in 268 (and in the Solomani Rim, but the boxed set is in
>the SM)
>
>Night of Conquest covers something in 268 IIRC

Actualy, it was "Divine Intervention", the other half of DA 6.  Set on
Pavabid, it included enough information to get a good idea of the world's
culture.  NoC was part of the "Scottian Huntress" series, IIRC.

"Tarkine Down" in JTAS... hmmm.. have to look it up later.

Where was "Beltstrike!" set?
- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
jt- au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 22:04:04 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Less combat oriented rules

At 04:25 PM 7/20/98 -0400, you wrote:

>	What is it about Corp & TIMELORDS that you think makes them less 
>inducive to violence?  I'm always looking for ways to make non-combat 
>adventures more fun and more the focus of the game.

CORPS combat is lethal.  Play with guns and you'll find your character
bleeding to death in a Leedor back-tunnel.  Tends to encourage more
creative solutions.
- --

Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net
 http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/index.html
*******************************************
"It is better to have more lightning in the
 brain and less thunder in the mouth."
                              -Sioux saying

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 21:25:49 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: RE Other Systems

>> one example of this is using Corp or TIMELORDS to make the game lest
>> inducive to volence or Fudge for simpler craft design...
>
>	What is it about Corp & TIMELORDS that you think makes them less
>inducive to violence?  I'm always looking for ways to make non-combat
>adventures more fun and more the focus of the game.
>

They repay injuries with massive penalties, high chances of death, and no
bonus for being a PC versus a "Dtaeiled NPC" versus a Spear Chucker NPC.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 23:20:42 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller

On 07/20/98 at 01:25 PM,  warmind@juno.com (james a clem) said:

>>How bout if you watched the first lunar landing?  Maybe that doesn't 
>>qualify as "old" but its amazing what people weren't BORN to remember 
>>these days!
>>

>Now theres a reasonable criteria.  I was eight years old, got to sit
>up late that night.  I was mightily impressed.

Hee! Hee! I was going to suggest Sputnik, instead of Mercury, but I figured none of the tykes around here would know what I meant. ;->

Eris,
    no, I wasn't at Kitty Hawk with Orvile and Wilber. ;->
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 00:07:39 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller

On 07/20/98 at 01:45 PM,  yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich) said:

>>The Lunar Landing was 19 years ago today, by the way...
>                       ^^
>WHAT??? Terra put men on the moon on July 20th, 1979? Are you sure?
>I've got to call HQ! :-)

That's just fine!  No one was to know about that for another 20 years!

Oh well, now that he's gone and let the cat out of the bag I might as
well go ahead and tell all.

Evidence of alien visitations to our system was found by astronauts
during the Apollo 12 mission in the form of several empty beersii cans
and other assorted trash piled up in a crater, but the Nixon
administration decided that it should be kept secret...what else would
*they* do?  The collision of an alien probe with Apollo 13 confirmed the
matter, and almost let the "cat out of the bag", but luckily the crew of
the 13, kept their heads, kept quiet, and got themselves and the wreaked
probe back to earth, more or less, in one piece.  

After that the United States quickly wound down their public
explorations and over the next few years brought other nations into the
secret.  Many discussions, at the highest levels, took place before
plans were agreed to.  Eventually, in 1974, the UN was given control of
the project, and through a secret Security Council resolution a space
program was authorized to secure the Solar System for humanity, and
prepare us all for eventual contact with the aliens now called Vilani.

The second round of lunar landings actually did begin on 79/07/20 with
the landing of the UN ship Beowolf on the farside of Luna near the south
pole.  Regular luna launches have continued for the last 19 years.
Launches are made from the supposedly mothballed Vandenberg launch
facilities, and from a USSR base in a *supposedly* irradiated area.
These launches have been occurring at an average rate of 26 per year now
for almost 20 years.  

Today a thriving base has been established on the far side of the moon.
From there we have begun to study the radio and television traffic
emanating from nearby systems...strangely similar to our own...;
tracking systems have been put in place to record and provide warning of
alien visits, though none have occurred during the 19 years of
observation; and research facilities in space sciences have been
established.

On earth, joint research programs at research institutes are developing
the technologies needed to assure Terran survival in the New World
Order.  Deep in the Ural Mountains, at a secret lab, scientists are
reverse engineering a fusion engine from a model acquired from some
un-disclosed source.  In the desert vastness of the United States
anti-gravity technologies are being developed from clues gathered from
other un-disclosed sources.

As *we* all know, experiments with Jump Technology won't really begin
until both the fusion and AG projects bear fruit.  We can only hope
success comes soon.


Deep Space

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #675
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Tuesday, July 21 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 676



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Planetoids in FF&S
[none]
Re: Beltstrike!
Re: Starting Traveller
Re AntiGravity
Re: Re AntiGravity
Re: Planetoid ships in TNE
M:IW sector yet another update
Re: Starting Traveller
Re: Starting Traveller
Re: Starting Traveller
Re: Re Old Traveller
re: Adventures/Suppliments covering District 268 and borders?
Re: Starting Traveller 
Re: Re AntiGravity
Re: Starting Traveller 
XBoat Route
Legacy Target Audience only?
Re: Starting Traveller 
Re: Re AntiGravity 
Re: XBoat Route 
Re: Re AntiGravity 
Re: Planetoid hulls
Re: Traveller GEEZER Club...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 21:38:31 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Planetoids in FF&S

>I want to use a sub-light colony vessel (i.e. a launch now, arrive 400 year
>later thing) in my campaign but would like to design it. I have noticed
>after borrowing a friends copy of high guard & mt mention of ships created
>from hollowed out planetoids which would be ideal for this purpose but I
>couldn't see any rules in FFS for doing this. Are there any or do people
>have suggestions (or even better anyone have a design of the colony ships
>used to reach the new & old islands?).
>
>Cheers
>
>Paul
>(still running round like a headless chicken trying to get prepared for his
>first traveller game)

I'd reverse engineer the hull using the MT percentages and reverse
engineering the MT AV 50 or 56, looking up the hull multiplier table (which
is the equivalent thicknes, in CM of Steel) from MT, then converting that
into CM of Steel Equivalent for whichever FF&S you're using. IIRC, double
it, then drop fractions.

Planetoids from MT:
Std: MTAV 50, useable volume 80%, Armor Mod: 80, so TNE AV 160. COst is
tunnelling cost per Td made available, totalling Cr75 per Td of the
interior, plus transport costs of Cr10 per Td of Asteroid.

Buffered: MT AV56, Useable Volume 65%, Tunnelling and Transport costs same
rates. MT AM is 135, so TNE AV 270.

I'd figure mass at Specific Gravity of around 8, so 8 tons per cubic meter,
or roughly 112 tons per Td of 14 m^3 of planetoid remaining. Assumes a
nickel-iron asteroid (Iron has a SG of around 7-8).


William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 21:39:59 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: [none]

>Actually both FFS and FFS2 have planetoid hull design sequences,
>somewhere in the hull design sections. (NB: One excellent reason to
>telecommute...you have all your Traveller books at hand ;-)

Where is it in FF&S 1???  I've never found it in there.... FF&S2, maybe.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 21:50:58 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beltstrike!

>Where was "Beltstrike!" set?
>- --
in the Bowman Belt, in District 268. Quite an interesting set, as it gives
maps of one of the major cities of the belt, which is Koenig's Rock, a
Hollowed out planetoid on the order of 2km Diameter IIRC. Big. Massive.
Mined out. Dangerous to visit.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 00:42:29 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller

On 07/20/98 at 05:56 PM,  Thom Harris <thomharr@mediaone.net> said:

>think to fully qualify as a official "Traveller Gnarly Old Fart" you
>would have to have been born before 1955.  Actually the abbreviation
>of Trav - GOF seems appropriate.

>Eris has 3 months on me and I was born Oct.. 7, 1951.  (Is July right
>Eris?)

July 15, 1951 to be exact.

>Thom (still remembering getting out of junior high when JFK was shot)
>Harris

JFK was shot on Friday.  My junior high, part of the high school, let
out at noon because that night was the homecoming game and the
homecoming parade was scheduled for one.  It was during the parade that
word of the "incident in Dallas" began to spread through the crowd.  I
went back to my homeroom and listened to a radio with the teacher and a
half dozen other students.  The radio described it as an incident in the
motorcade, then a disturbance, then it was confirmed that shots had been
fired, then Walter Cronkite came on...at least I think it was
Cronkite...and said that the President was dead. 

I walked 4 miles that afternoon to where my father worked, rather than
take the bus home, nobody would have been home, and I didn't want to die
alone.  I remember being filled with dread, walking as fast as I could,
and continuously looking up.  I fully expected the missiles to start
falling at any moment.  See, I was sure killing the President was the
beginning of the Soviet attack, with the President dead we wouldn't have
anyone who could officially send the orders to respond...I was twelve,
so what did I know.

The football game when on that night, although there was some discussion
of canceling it.  We went.  It was cold and it rained.  We lost by a
field goal on the last play of the game. I didn't really care.

There's no Ob Traveller for this one, I guess.  Consider it a bit of
history.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 21:56:02 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re AntiGravity

Any word on NASA's superconductor Mass Reduction system?

(I saw a program on the effect on the Discovery Channel a few months ago.
Basically, a spinning superconducting magnet inside a magnetic field
apparently reduces mass of objects above said asembly. Supposedly, NASA is
looking into it as a means of decreased needed thrust for initial boost by
decreasing mass of the launch vehicle. I suppose it would also change the
ISP of the fuel reaction, too... but I wonder...)

- -wil
[too poor to aintain a subscription to Nature and Scientific American]

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 01:01:42 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Re AntiGravity

On 07/20/98 at 09:56 PM,  "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU> said:

>Any word on NASA's superconductor Mass Reduction system?

I haven't been able to find much.  The one short blurb I found said that
no positive results from tests so far.

Has anyone gotten any follow up on the room temperature superconductor
reported by the scientist in New York?

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 02:56:36 EDT
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re: Planetoid ships in TNE

John Macpherson <john35@wharton.upenn.edu>
responds:

>Subject: Planetoid ships in TNE
>
> 
>"Paul James" <paul@turing.tcp.co.uk> wrote: 

>> I have noticed
>> after borrowing a friends copy of high guard & mt mention of ships created
>> from hollowed out planetoids which would be ideal for this purpose but I
>> couldn't see any rules in FFS for doing this. Are there any or do people
>> have suggestions (or even better anyone have a design of the colony ships
>> used to reach the new & old islands?).
>
>	A)  Rules for planetoid hulls aren't in FF&S but are in FF&S2.
>

 Not as such, but the rules for creating deep meson sites work nicely as a
start... A fixed formula for price and time for such things is probably being
optimistic about the regularity of the universe, though. This summer's two
asteroid movies should be enough to prove that (assuming you want to see Deep
Impact at all, feel free to sleep through all the stuff that happens in an
atmosphere. Or better yet, go see Armageddon twice. I did.).

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:25:10 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: M:IW sector yet another update

I've now pushed my maps up to the end of the 1st Interstellar War and added 
bases. So now available on my website is a zip file containing maps for the 
Solomani Rim as at:

   First Contact between the Terrans and the Vilani
   The start of the 1st Interstellar War
   The end of the 1st Interstellar War

All the files are in Galatic 2.3 format, and form a single "universe".

As usual any and all comments are most welcome. I'm intending to keep 
updating the maps regularly as I push towards getting a full set of maps for the 
entire Nine wars period.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 05:02:07 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller

In mail you write:

> james a clem wrote:
>> I'd say, anyone who started playing before 1980.  I didn't see the first
>> Mercury launch, but I do remember the Geminis.
>
> Whoa, that takes me back...one of my fragmentary early memories is
> watching the entire Mercury 1 mission, sitting on my mother's lap in our
> kitchen, watching the old Zenith B&W (which, come to think of it, was
> considerably _newer_ then).
>
> I distinctly remember thinking 'Wow, that's all?' when it was over so
> soon, though that may have been later unconsious embellishment, since I
> was all of 3 1/2 then.

I recall my mother taking me out in the backyard one night to try to
point out Sputnik to me. Alas, there was also an airplane in the sky,
so guess which "moving light" I focused on. <sigh>

Oh well, I was only 3 or 4 so it I can almost forgive myself.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 05:10:00 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller

In mail you write:

> Sure Jim, you didn't say how old you are or when you were born though.  I
> think to fully qualify as a official "Traveller Gnarly Old Fart" you would
> have to have been born before 1955.  Actually the abbreviation of Trav - GOF
> seems appropriate.

No fair! I was born in Feb of 1955!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 05:05:29 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller

In mail you write:

> The Lunar Landing was 19 years ago today, by the way...

Try *29* years ago. And it's been more than 25 years since the last
time men were on the moon (last Apollo moon flight launched at 1233
EST, Dec 7, 1972)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 05:18:23 PDT
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re Old Traveller

William wrote:
>
>IMO, Old Travellers means having Played or Run traveller (even if 
>only the solo activities) prior to the release of MT in 1987, and 
>being willing to admit to being that old.
>

[snip of things I mostly remember.  I don't remember Vietnam being over.  
I was out of the country at the time]

>
>True, a number of you are older, and true, mayny have been playing 
>longer, but to Me, You've been playing a long time if you remember a 
>time before a change of system mechanics.

My "problem" is that I don't remember anything but the LBBs...  Then 4, 
5 & 6.  I never got MT, TNE, T4...  So I guess I'm stuck in my 
childhood.  And what a great place to be stuck!

Then Eris wrote about JFK being shot.  I was too young for that.  But 
your reaction would probably be what many felt when the rumors of 
Strephon's assassination came out, and from the descriptions of the 
fighting, some missiles did begin to fall!



Greg Smith
The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 08:33:12 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Adventures/Suppliments covering District 268 and borders?

Douglas Berry wrote:
>At 12:22 AM 7/21/98 +0100, you wrote:
>>Night of Conquest covers something in 268 IIRC
>
>Actualy, it was "Divine Intervention", the other half of DA 6.  Set on
>Pavabid, it included enough information to get a good idea of the world's
>culture.  NoC was part of the "Scottian Huntress" series, IIRC.

Oops! At least it was the right book ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:08:43 -0400
From: warmind@juno.com (james a clem)
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller 

On Mon, 20 Jul 1998 14:48:34 -0700 (PDT) Brannon Boren
<brannonb@animal.blarg.net> writes:
>
>> > >The Lunar Landing was 19 years ago today, by the way...
>> >                        ^^
>> 29 years ago, actually.  I was out of touch with the world 
>at the time, didn't hear about it til I got back, in '72.
>
>Okay, I'll bite. Where could you go to avoid hearing about the moon
>landing for three years?
>

Maybe the question should be, what were you doing??

:)

Jim A. Clem, B.S.E.
CEO and Founder, Diasporan Industries, Inc.
www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081/
Traveller Geek Code tc+ tm !tn tt t4+ ru+() ge++ !3i jt au (+) st ls(+)
pi+ he++ merc++ dt+++
GM:  The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:24:37 -0400
From: warmind@juno.com (james a clem)
Subject: Re: Re AntiGravity

[weeping , nay, sobbing at the rearing of its wicked head, PSEUDO
SCIENCE]

sorry my friend, this breaks several laws, especially conservation of
momentum.  (I realize you are merely reporting this, not coming up with
it yourself)  We may not know everything about the universe, but in
general, what we know about physics remains true even in the light of
later developments, except for particular exceptions and circumstances. 
Besides, how much additional mass will the magnet and its support
structure add to the vehicle.  Also, how will you keep it in line, and
spinning.  And, how will you power said system, and keep THAT weight
down.  The anti grav and contra grav we use in Trav is fun, nice to have,
etc. but frankly they break way too many laws.  Personally, I have my
doubts that such things, in the way Trav describes and/or uses them, are
possible.


Jim A. Clem, B.S.E.
CEO and Founder, Diasporan Industries, Inc.
www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081/
Traveller Geek Code tc+ tm !tn tt t4+ ru+() ge++ !3i jt au (+) st ls(+)
pi+ he++ merc++ dt+++
GM:  The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM


On Mon, 20 Jul 1998 21:56:02 -0800 "William F. Hostman"
<aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU> writes:
>Any word on NASA's superconductor Mass Reduction system?
>
>(I saw a program on the effect on the Discovery Channel a few months 
>ago.
>Basically, a spinning superconducting magnet inside a magnetic field
>apparently reduces mass of objects above said asembly. Supposedly, 
>NASA is
>looking into it as a means of decreased needed thrust for initial 
>boost by
>decreasing mass of the launch vehicle. I suppose it would also change 
>the
>ISP of the fuel reaction, too... but I wonder...)
>
>-wil
>[too poor to aintain a subscription to Nature and Scientific American]
>
>William F. Hostman
><Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
><Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
>IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- 
>kk+
>as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
>
>
>

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:40:00 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller 

> In mail you write:
> 
> > Sure Jim, you didn't say how old you are or when you were born though.  I
> > think to fully qualify as a official "Traveller Gnarly Old Fart" you would
> > have to have been born before 1955.  Actually the abbreviation of Trav - GOF
> > seems appropriate.
> 
> No fair! I was born in Feb of 1955!

Munchkin.

<ducking>

Keven
- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: 21 Jul 1998 09:46 EDT
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: XBoat Route

IMTU, an X-Boat route would have to have at least one Xboat tender 
per terminal leg of a route.  This may imply 3 or 4 XBoats minimum
per terminal leg, hence 8 XBoats per leg.

Add to that a fuel shuttle and another tender with 2 scouts 
accompanying it, and you've got a tasty target for corsairs.  So
just for good measure, add an SDB squadron for protection.

Now, with all those people there, and ships rotating on and off
duty, there is bound to be boredom.  So grab an asteroid hulk,
hollow it out and outfit it with minimal thrusters and decent
weapons, and make a planetoid monitor/shore leave base.  Let
merchants or megacorps put their shops, taverns, hotels, and
Zero-G paintball arenas in there, and you have a small starport.

Hmmmm, I'd better think about this.

Rob

------------------------------

Date: 21 Jul 1998 09:54 EDT
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Legacy Target Audience only?

Gentle Travellers,

I remember (vaguely) the discussion about how to reach people
with the Gospel of Traveller.  I don't remember if you-all
decided if it were possible to tear kids away from GURPS,
D&D, etc.  I don't remember if you-all decided how Traveller
should best be marketed.

So, is Traveller going to just be a niche market?  Is it due
to something about the game itself?

Oh yes: I remember someone mentioning that role playing is out
of vogue -- it's thought of as a 70's thing (since that was when 
it was bigger?).  I don't suppose this image can be blasted?
I don't suppose this image is already melting?

Also:

I don't suppose T5 can come out at the same time as the new
Star Wars movie?

Rob
IMTU tc+ t4+ ge-() 3i(+) jt a ls+ va- so- zh vi da+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 10:03:29 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller 

> 
> On Mon, 20 Jul 1998 14:48:34 -0700 (PDT) Brannon Boren
> <brannonb@animal.blarg.net> writes:
> >
> >> > >The Lunar Landing was 19 years ago today, by the way...
> >> >                        ^^
> >> 29 years ago, actually.  I was out of touch with the world 
> >at the time, didn't hear about it til I got back, in '72.
> >
> >Okay, I'll bite. Where could you go to avoid hearing about the moon
> >landing for three years?
> >
> 
> Maybe the question should be, what were you doing??

The answer to that question will get me a 20 year vacation with a better basic cable plan than you have.

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 10:06:53 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Re AntiGravity 

> [weeping , nay, sobbing at the rearing of its wicked head, PSEUDO
> SCIENCE]
> 
> sorry my friend, this breaks several laws, especially conservation of
> momentum.  (I realize you are merely reporting this, not coming up with
> it yourself)  We may not know everything about the universe, but in
> general, what we know about physics remains true even in the light of
> later developments, except for particular exceptions and circumstances. 
> Besides, how much additional mass will the magnet and its support
> structure add to the vehicle.  Also, how will you keep it in line, and
> spinning.  And, how will you power said system, and keep THAT weight
> down.  The anti grav and contra grav we use in Trav is fun, nice to have,
> etc. but frankly they break way too many laws.  Personally, I have my
> doubts that such things, in the way Trav describes and/or uses them, are
> possible.

Prob is, Jim, we *really* don't know how gravity *works* yet.  All we know for sure is, it's there, it's measurable, and because of it you can have a real bad day if you fall out a window on the 29th floor.

Keven
- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 10:19:01 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: XBoat Route 

> IMTU, an X-Boat route would have to have at least one Xboat tender 
> per terminal leg of a route.  This may imply 3 or 4 XBoats minimum
> per terminal leg, hence 8 XBoats per leg.
> 
> Add to that a fuel shuttle and another tender with 2 scouts 
> accompanying it, and you've got a tasty target for corsairs.  So
> just for good measure, add an SDB squadron for protection.
> 
> Now, with all those people there, and ships rotating on and off
> duty, there is bound to be boredom.  So grab an asteroid hulk,
> hollow it out and outfit it with minimal thrusters and decent
> weapons, and make a planetoid monitor/shore leave base.  Let
> merchants or megacorps put their shops, taverns, hotels, and
> Zero-G paintball arenas in there, and you have a small starport.
> 
> Hmmmm, I'd better think about this.

Not a bad idea there.  Only, figure on 'dead' runs, there'd only be 1 tender, 
stock, just like in T&G, 1kt.  2 to 3 Xboats on station at any given time.  A 
couple snub fighters in real backwaters, your 2 or 3 SDB's closer to the 
frontier.  Resupply by 400 dt subbie merchants run by Imperiallines or other 
front outfit a la Air America.  Refuel by fuel shuttles.

FWIW, IMTU, I used to have the main starports of most high tech systems to be 
in the Oort Cloud or the Kuiper Belt of the system.  Over top of the planets 
themselves were secondary ports.

Keven
- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 10:36:21 -0400
From: warmind@juno.com (james a clem)
Subject: Re: Re AntiGravity 

On Tue, 21 Jul 1998 10:06:53 -0400 "Keven R. Pittsinger"
<jamstar@glasscity.net> writes:

>
>Prob is, Jim, we *really* don't know how gravity *works* yet.  All we 
>know for sure is, it's there, it's measurable, and because of it you 
>can have a real bad day if you fall out a window on the 29th floor.
>

Thats a fair point.


Jim A. Clem, B.S.E.
CEO and Founder, Diasporan Industries, Inc.
www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081/
Traveller Geek Code tc+ tm !tn tt t4+ ru+() ge++ !3i jt au (+) st ls(+)
pi+ he++ merc++ dt+++
GM:  The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 07:57:00 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Planetoid hulls

William F. Hostman wrote:
> 
> >Actually both FFS and FFS2 have planetoid hull design sequences,
> >somewhere in the hull design sections. (NB: One excellent reason to
> >telecommute...you have all your Traveller books at hand ;-)
> 
> Where is it in FF&S 1???  I've never found it in there.... FF&S2, maybe.

_Another_ excellent reason to telecommute...you don't make bonehead statements
like I did...it _is_ in FFS2, but not in FFS1. 

Sorry!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 05:21:12 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller GEEZER Club...

In mail you write:

> Maybe we need to form some sort of "Geriatrics Club", like that one that
> Lucas Garner is a member of in Larry Niven's "World of Ptavvs". :^)

The Struldbrugs? No thanks. 

You see, I know where Niven "borrowed" the name from. One of the less
well known portions of "Gulliver's Travels". BTW, we also get "yahoo"
from that work. And once you've read it, you'll realize just how much
of an insult it is to be called a yahoo.


- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #676
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Tuesday, July 21 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 677



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Beltstrike!
A related question...
Re:  AntiGravity
Re AntiGravity 
Re: Traveller GEEZER Club...
Re: Legacy Target Audience only?
Why Milspec ships have so many crew members...
Re: Starting Traveller
Re: Starting Traveller
Re: Gravity, Superconducters, and NASA (a bit long)
Traveller: starting and otherwise
Re: Gravity, Superconducters, and NASA (a bit long)
Re: Why Milspec ships have so many crew members...
Re: Gravity, Superconducters, and NASA (a bit long)
Re: Re AntiGravity
Re: Traveller: starting and otherwise
Re: Starting Traveller
Re: Legacy Target Audience only?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 10:23:38 -0500
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: Re: Beltstrike!

"William F. Hostman" posted:
>
>>Where was "Beltstrike!" set?
>>- --
>in the Bowman Belt, in District 268. Quite an interesting set, as it gives
>maps of one of the major cities of the belt, which is Koenig's Rock, a
>Hollowed out planetoid on the order of 2km Diameter IIRC. Big. Massive.
>Mined out. Dangerous to visit.

Yeah, but one heck of a party town! Perfect for "morally-challenged"
characters.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 08:41:04 PDT
From: "Odin Sveinsson" <helsefyr34@hotmail.com>
Subject: A related question...

Hello folks,

	I just got and read the latest issue of Paper Mayhem, the
informative Play-By-Mail Magazine" issue#89 (march/april 98) and
I say a article about the PBM game called "Continuum" by MBT Games.
	Now I use to play in the Traveller PBM by Eclipse, that
I enjoyed greatly. After reading this player review of this game
"Continuun", they both sound very much alike. Can anyone Please 
advise me if you know what happed to the Traveller PBM by Eclipse,
and also give me some type of review of this PBM game "Continuun".
Are they the same or what? has anyone played it or is anyone still
playing in it? Also what is it's turns cost?

Thanks,

Penn Eckert

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:06:20 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re:  AntiGravity

>Any word on NASA's superconductor Mass Reduction system?
So far as I know, NASA has been unable to reproduce the original European
result, which is now generally being ascribed to experimental error on the
part of the original experimenter (*big* surprise).

>Has anyone gotten any follow up on the room temperature superconductor
>reported by the scientist in New York?
My gut feeling on this one is that it's either experimental error again or
that someone has just discovered an exotic thermocouple, since they were
actually claiming "negative" resistance, whatever that means...

Bruce Macintosh, conservative scientific curmudgeon

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:10:53 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re AntiGravity 

On Tue, 21 Jul 1998 10:06:53 -0400 "Keven R. Pittsinger"
<jamstar@glasscity.net> writes:

>
>Prob is, Jim, we *really* don't know how gravity *works* yet.  All we 
>know for sure is, it's there, it's measurable, and because of it you 
>can have a real bad day if you fall out a window on the 29th floor.
>

Actually, we have a pretty good theory of gravity - General Relativity does a 
perfectly good job of explaining how it works in terms of the geometry of 
spacetime, and how mass causes spacetime to curve. It's possibly the most 
elegant theory of the twentieth century...Of course, it fails utterly on 
quantum scales, but that's currently a minor point and irrelevant to 
evaluation of macroscopic devices like this "gravity shield".

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 12:44:28 -0400
From: "chauncey smith" <Csmith@icdc.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller GEEZER Club...

- -----Original Message-----
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Tuesday, July 21, 1998 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: Traveller GEEZER Club...


Now I think that we all know how old the Traveller audience is... we should
maybe make a turn to see how we can get new ppl to start playing this great
game that I love soo  Much.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 12:41:54 -0400
From: "chauncey smith" <Csmith@icdc.com>
Subject: Re: Legacy Target Audience only?

- -----Original Message-----
From: Robert Eaglestone <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Tuesday, July 21, 1998 10:11 AM
Subject: Legacy Target Audience only?


>Gentle Travellers,
>
>I remember (vaguely) the discussion about how to reach people
>with the Gospel of Traveller.  I don't remember if you-all
>decided if it were possible to tear kids away from GURPS,
>D&D, etc.  I don't remember if you-all decided how Traveller
>should best be marketed.
>
First of all a Gurps Traveller is a great marketing Idea. In todays Rpg
market games are sole based on there Melieu and not the game engine itself.
Traveller which is a Genric engine itself may want to ad a Traveller System
book which is just system and how to create Offical Occupations for the
traveller system that are balanced for play in any enviorment. After all I
can create vichecles for any Tech level so why not Charaters for any Genra?

Secondly despite what we fans may think about being the second origanal RPG
ever made (all others being copies of D&D) traveller doesn't have the name
reconigition that D&D has. New players will be picking it up due to some
other reason... like the Star Wars RPG was not gritty enough or what ever.
Then they read about all the great races in the book and they want to play
them and the race books are out of print... Never was a edition Of AD&D
released without a Monster Manual so the old Classic trav races need to be
added..even if they are not detailed.
Handle detailing in suppliments.

>So, is Traveller going to just be a niche market?  Is it due
>to something about the game itself?
>
Set the new edition during a war to add to the volence level and gives a
black and white enemy
Not like the rebelion in MT but like interstellar war with the Zhos. the
zhos are the bad gays... it's niche now because the system is very grey and
appeals only to ppl who think in the grey areas.

>Oh yes: I remember someone mentioning that role playing is out
>of vogue -- it's thought of as a 70's thing (since that was when
>it was bigger?).  I don't suppose this image can be blasted?
>I don't suppose this image is already melting?
>

Role playing is coming back just look at some of the newer ones ie Legands
of the Five Rings.

Chauncey Smith AKA drkmage

With out heresay there may never be any change,
With out change there there death....... Dulinor

ITMU: tc tm+ tn++ ?tg tt !to ru ge+ 3i c++ jt- au+ st++ ls pi- ta++ he++
     kk hi+ as va ?dr ith+ ?vr ?ne so zh++ vi+ dr++ sy-

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 11:02:36 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Why Milspec ships have so many crew members...

http://www.gcn.com/gcn/1998/July13/cov2.htm

A story about the USS Yorktown Aegis missile cruiser...in part...:

"The Navy’s Smart Ship technology may not be as smart as the service
contends.

Although PCs have reduced workloads for sailors aboard the Aegis missile
cruiser USS Yorktown, software glitches resulted in
system failures and crippled ship operations, according to Navy
officials.

Navy brass have called the Yorktown Smart Ship pilot a success in
reducing manpower, maintenance and costs. The Navy
began running shipboard applications under Microsoft Windows NT so that
fewer sailors would be needed to control key ship
functions.

But the Navy last fall learned a difficult lesson about automation: The
very information technology on which the ships depend also
makes them vulnerable. The Yorktown last September suffered a systems
failure when bad data was fed into its computers
during maneuvers off the coast of Cape Charles, Va.

The ship had to be towed into the Naval base at Norfolk, Va., because a
database overflow caused its propulsion system to fail,
according to Anthony DiGiorgio, a civilian engineer with the Atlantic
Fleet Technical Support Center in Norfolk.

“We are putting equipment in the engine room that we cannot maintain
and, when it fails, results in a critical failure,” DiGiorgio
said. It took two days of pierside maintenance to fix the problem.

The Yorktown has been towed into port after other systems failures, he
said."

I'm going to be charitable, and not even say a thing remotely related to
a giant software kludge from Redmond...;-)

BUT, ObTrav...what happens when your high automation ship suffers a
disruption?

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 10:23:54 -0700
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller

Michael D. Peters wrote:
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
> Date: Monday, July 20, 1998 12:54 PM
> Subject: Re: Starting Traveller
> 
> >Gentle Men,
> >
> >I believe I am older than anyone who has responded giving dates, and I
> >am still counting. I have watched all of the events as described, albeit
> >probably after the fact, on the late news or re-run specials, and I own
> >a significant number of Traveller items. I have had the opportunity to
> >*play* in an adventure or campaign except in my own minds eye. Would
> >that still qualify me for or as an 'Old Traveller' ????
> >
> >Jim
> >
> >
> 
> Jim,
> 
> Since Eris has gant admission to me (thank you Eris... I think), please
> allow me to extend the same to you. Welocome GEEZER! uh, sorry I have to go
> now... it's time for my medicine and nap. (rolling off in his wheel chair).

Well thank you Mike. Mighty proud to be amongst the select group. Why, I
can remember when............(he says as everyone else doses off into a
much deserved rest)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 11:25:23 -0700
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller

Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:
> 
> > In mail you write:
> >
> > > Sure Jim, you didn't say how old you are or when you were born though.  I
> > > think to fully qualify as a official "Traveller Gnarly Old Fart" you would
> > > have to have been born before 1955.  Actually the abbreviation of Trav - GOF
> > > seems appropriate.

He was born Dec 12, 1936.  I think that qualifies, no?

Cheers,
Darren

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 14:29:52 EDT
From: JLAROSEE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Gravity, Superconducters, and NASA (a bit long)

Hi- 
   Found this article (and many more) using AOL Netfind; gravity +
superconducters. Lots of pro and con articles to argue, but I agree with the
comment that while we can measure and observe the effects of gravity, we don't
yet understand it. Much like a TL-3 trying to explain a flashlight; knows how
to turn it on and off but has no comprehension of how a power source is stored
in the batteries and then conducted to heat a filiment in the bulb to create
light.
   Didn't notice much discussion regarding what canon basics are "required" to
be considered  Traveller. Does anyone have more thoughts on this?
    Jay

Nasa's Antigravity Machine
From Popular Mechanics - 03-JAN-98 - By Jim Wilson 
* What goes up must come down. Well, maybe not. 

Later this month, NASA researchers hope to conduct an experiment that could
determine if the force of gravity might someday be adjusted, like the volume
of a radio. The space agency says that turning down the gravity in the
immediate vicinity of a rocket would enable future spacecraft to roam the
galaxy by using the tug of distant planets and stars. 

Scientists have historically dismissed talk of anti-gravity machines as utter
nonsense. But at a rare, closed-door conference at NASA's Lewis Research
Center in Cleveland, Ohio, scientists representing major universities,
national weapons laboratories, defense contractors and the corporate research
and development community gathered to hear a detailed account of the space
agency's progress in attempting to build a machine that once seemed beyond the
bounds of possibility. 

In a surprising departure from its, long-standing policy of openness, NASA did
not invite the press to the conference. However, after, interviews with
attendees, Popular Mechanics has learned that a group of researchers at NASA's
Marshall Manned Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama, has nearly
completed building a device that could make it possible to reduce
gravitational attractions in its immediate vicinity. 

Part of the reason for the secrecy is that the very thought of such a machine
defies conventional scientific wisdom. 

To understand why, it's helpful to know there are two complementary but not
entirely compatible explanations for gravity. Isaac Newton, the first
physicist, described gravity as an attraction between two masses. Albert
Einstein's general theory of relativity suggests mass actually causes space-
time to warp around it. 

Imagine, for instance, the indentation created by placing a bowling ball on a
soft bed. 

Both theories explain why apples fall from trees. Scientists consider
Einstein's theory superior because it explains also why light -- which has no
mass -- appears to bend in strong gravitational fields. 

Light, as the theory goes, follows the mass-induced curve in space-time.
Viewing gravity this way makes it more of a feature of the universe. It is for
this reason that scientists consider the idea antigravity device preposterous.

Well, most scientists, anyway. Ron Koczor, a researcher at NASA's Marshall
Space Flight Center, who co-authored a paper on the Huntsville laboratory's
gravity modification device that was presented at the conference, picks up the
story. 

"In 1992, Dr. Eugene Podkletnov of Tampere University, Finland, published the
results of his experiment with high-temperature ceramic superconductors,"
Koczor says. 

"He devised an experiment in which a disc of superconducting material was
magnetically levitated and rotated at high speed, up to several thousand rpm,
in the presence of an external magnetic field. In the course of the tests,
Podkletnov noted that objects above the rotating disk showed a variable but
measurable loss of weight, from less than .5% to about 2%. He had no
explanation," explains Koczor. 

Podkletnov collected data from his experiments for nearly four years and
compiled it in a paper that was accepted for publication in the prestigious
Journal of Physics. 

But the paper never appeared. Several days before its scheduled publication in
the fall of 1996, Podkletnov told his story to the London Sunday Telegraph.
Other reporters attempting to confirm the story learned that one of
Podkletnov's co-authors claimed to have never worked on the project. 

Podkletnov withdrew his paper and returned to the faculty of the Moscow
Chemistry Science Research Centre. For many journalists, the situation was
beginning to look like the cold fusion debacle. They quickly backed off from
the story. 

Not everyone was dissuaded by Podkletnov's refusal to publish his work. Seven
years earlier, Ning Li, a theorist who worked with NASA's Marshall center, had
developed a theory suggesting that a superconductor rotated in a strong
magnetic field could disrupt the gravitational force in its immediate
vicinity. Three of her papers were subsequently published by major scientific
journals. 

Currently a senior scientist on the research faculty of the University of
Alabama in Huntsville, Ning Li has been helping to build the superconducting
disc for the Marshall antigravity device for the past year. 

Whitt Brantley, the NASA-designated spokesman for the experiment who also is a
member of the antigravity project, says the space agency's scientists decided
last year to try to duplicate Podkletnov's machine by looking over his earlier
research and exchanging information with him by telephone and e-mail. 

"Each time we contact him there seems to be more detail. It's sort of like
chasing something," says Brantley. 

NASA isn't sure its antigravity machine, which is 90% complete, will work. At
the moment, the biggest problem is building the fragile superconducting disc,
which is, in fact, made of two discs, explains Brantley. One is made of metal
that can be levitated in a magnetic field. On top of it is a composite made of
superconducting materials. 

This assembly is housed in a 20-in.-dia. column that stands about 4 ft. tall.
At the start of the experiment, it will be filled with liquid helium or
nitrogen, which cools the apparatus to minus-400 [degrees] F. 

Only then is the disc set into motion. 

If the machine performs as Podkletnov claims, delicate instruments will show a
diminution of gravity's tug. 

Brantley says researchers originally saw a slight gravity shielding effect
when they placed instrumentation above a smaller, stationary disc. 

It turned out to be the result of the magnetic field. Adding ordinary 1/2-in.
iron plates removed this anomaly. Some critics contend that if Podkletnov had
taken a similar precaution, the effects that he observed would have likewise
disappeared. 

Most physicists believe that when NASA flips the switch on its gravity
modification experiment, absolutely nothing will happen. Then again, it could
start the countdown to a bold new era in space exploration.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 18:20:09 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Traveller: starting and otherwise

Interesting, how times have changed. 

Gone are the days of a bag of crisps and a can of coke on the gaming table.

Last week we had several bags of crisps, but the drink was single-malt
whisky. 

Guess some things have changed for the better!

Seriously, I'm constantly amazed to overhear the kids I teach talking about
collecting Games Workshop figures. They also play computer RPGs.

Yet most of them don't seem to make the transition to the 'real' gaming
world.

Maybe because the occupants of that real gaming world sit around the table
frinking Scotch and being interrupted by their children.... (Ducks quickly)

There is no point or moral to this post, so don't bother looking.

MJD

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 14:57:27 -0400
From: warmind@juno.com (james a clem)
Subject: Re: Gravity, Superconducters, and NASA (a bit long)

AHHHHH, PUHHHLEEEEEZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jim wanders off among his books, muttering something about cold
fusion...................................

Talk about wrapping bald speculation in the cloak of science!!!!!!


Jim A. Clem, B.S.E.
CEO and Founder, Diasporan Industries, Inc.
www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081/
Traveller Geek Code tc+ tm !tn tt t4+ ru+() ge++ !3i jt au (+) st ls(+)
pi+ he++ merc++ dt+++
GM:  The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM


On Tue, 21 Jul 1998 14:29:52 EDT JLAROSEE@aol.com writes:
>Hi- 
>   Found this article (and many more) using AOL Netfind; gravity +
>superconducters. Lots of pro and con articles to argue, but I agree 
>with the
>comment that while we can measure and observe the effects of gravity, 
>we don't
>yet understand it. Much like a TL-3 trying to explain a flashlight; 
>knows how>
>Most physicists believe that when NASA flips the switch on its gravity
>modification experiment, absolutely nothing will happen. Then again, 
>it could
>start the countdown to a bold new era in space exploration.
>



_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 14:56:51 -0400
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Why Milspec ships have so many crew members...

> BUT, ObTrav...what happens when your high automation ship suffers a
> disruption?

You switch to your next back up computer.  THIS is why there are three
computers in starships.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 15:16:30 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: Gravity, Superconducters, and NASA (a bit long)

At 02:57 PM 7/21/98 -0400, you wrote:
>AHHHHH, PUHHHLEEEEEZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>Jim wanders off among his books, muttering something about cold
>fusion...................................
>
>Talk about wrapping bald speculation in the cloak of science!!!!!!
>

Isn't this what they said about man flying, and eventually walking on the
moon?  ;-)

Later

Kurt Feltenberger

“We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a
habit.”
- --- Aristotle ---

mailto:kurt@blazenet.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 12:05:57 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re AntiGravity

In mail you write:

> [weeping , nay, sobbing at the rearing of its wicked head, PSEUDO
> SCIENCE]
>
> sorry my friend, this breaks several laws, especially conservation of
> momentum.  (I realize you are merely reporting this, not coming up with
> it yourself)  We may not know everything about the universe, but in
> general, what we know about physics remains true even in the light of
> later developments, except for particular exceptions and circumstances. 

On the other hand "new" theories come about when we check out
conditions that we've not checked out before and discover that the
rules have exceptions for those conditions. 

"Remember" the uproar the Michaelson-Morely experiment caused? It broke
a lot of laws too.

> Besides, how much additional mass will the magnet and its support
> structure add to the vehicle.  Also, how will you keep it in line, and
> spinning.  And, how will you power said system, and keep THAT weight
> down. 

The way I read it, they'd be building it into the launch pad. 

> The anti grav and contra grav we use in Trav is fun, nice to have,
> etc. but frankly they break way too many laws.  Personally, I have my
> doubts that such things, in the way Trav describes and/or uses them, are
> possible.

Well, anti-gravity in *general* doesnn't break any laws. Heck, I canm
draw you up plans for a unit that even eminent physicists would agree
will work. It's just that you'll have to dig up a supply of "neutronium
dust" or some other similarly dense dust or fluid to make it work. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 13:19:43 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller: starting and otherwise

MJ Dougherty wrote:

> Interesting, how times have changed.
>
> Gone are the days of a bag of crisps and a can of coke on the gaming table.
>
> Last week we had several bags of crisps, but the drink was single-malt
> whisky.
>

Hmmm. We used to have a tradition during Traveller games. One of the players (I
couldn't, as the referee) was designated the bartender, and would brew Long
Island Iced Tea for the rest of us. Needless to say, as the gaming went on into
the evening, the actual quality of play tended to deteriorate. (Of course, my
refereeing wasn't affected :-)  ).

Nowadays, though, it's just Coke after Coke. The sugar high we all feel tends to
make us all very hyper towards the end of the session though.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 13:01:54 -0700
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Starting Traveller

Thom Harris wrote:
> 
> Sure Jim, you didn't say how old you are or when you were born though. 
Well, let me see. I remember asking my mother what it meant and if dad
would have to go when the radio broadcast announced the invasion of
Poland starting the 2WW. I was just coming 3 at the time. Does that make
me the Gnaliest Old Fart, a truly just reward for many years of
cantankerous obstinacy.

I
> think to fully qualify as a official "Traveller Gnarly Old Fart" you would
> have to have been born before 1955.  Actually the abbreviation of Trav - GOF
> seems appropriate.
> 
> Eris has 3 months on me and I was born Oct.. 7, 1951.  (Is July right Eris?)
> 
> Thom (still remembering getting out of junior high when JFK was shot) Harris

Jim Cooper (Don't want to remember too much for fear I might incriminate
myself).

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 17:28:38 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Legacy Target Audience only?

Rob Eaglestone;
>>Gentle Travellers,
>>
>>I remember (vaguely) the discussion about how to reach people
>>with the Gospel of Traveller.  I don't remember if you-all
>>decided if it were possible to tear kids away from GURPS,
>>D&D, etc.  I don't remember if you-all decided how Traveller
>>should best be marketed.

I think the problem is not one of tearing away from GURPS, D&D, or any
other Role Playing Game.  The time competition is (in order) TV, Computer
Games/Internet, Sports, and CCGs.

Gamers play games.  Whether they are on a computer or in their minds.
There are plenty of (sorry) more entertaining things going on in either TV
land or on the Home Computer that investing the time and effort of
organizing, planning, and executing a session of either Traveller or D&D is
simply not worth the time lost playing Command and Conquer IV,
Streetfighter XX, or Master of Orion 4.

It takes a bit more sophistication to hook into the "god view" thing and
prefer to create your own scenarios and campaigns rather than use someone
else's.

One idea I had was to volunteer to lead after school activities at the
local Jr. high or High school.  Parents may think you are a potential
pedophile, however.

Chauncey Smith replied;
>First of all a Gurps Traveller is a great marketing Idea. In todays Rpg
>market games are sole based on there Melieu and not the game engine itself.
>Traveller which is a Genric engine itself may want to ad a Traveller System
>book which is just system and how to create Offical Occupations for the
>traveller system that are balanced for play in any enviorment. After all I
>can create vichecles for any Tech level so why not Charaters for any Genra?

[whew, get a spellchecker]  Traveller is both a system and a background
(several actually), but it is, in fact, much more than that; its 50+ web
sites, hundreds of emails per week, dozens of fans willing to ask and
answer questions - and play, its the creator and several original writers
in direct contact with the players...Traveller is a community.

Rob Again;
>>So, is Traveller going to just be a niche market?  Is it due
>>to something about the game itself?
>>
Chauncey again;
>Set the new edition during a war to add to the volence level and gives a
>black and white enemy
>Not like the rebelion in MT but like interstellar war with the Zhos. the
>zhos are the bad gays... it's niche now because the system is very grey and
>appeals only to ppl who think in the grey areas.

That's just fine...but count me out.  Traveller is a bit more like real
life...shades of grey.  I see the system (MT, which is what I'm using) as a
good mechanical system, easy to play, balanced between realism and
playability.

Oh, and I don't think all Zhodani are bad gays either.  Just like all the
other gays, some are bad, some are good, just like all of us.  Is this a
parallel to the Aslan Lesbian thing?

Rob;
>>Oh yes: I remember someone mentioning that role playing is out
>>of vogue -- it's thought of as a 70's thing (since that was when
>>it was bigger?).  I don't suppose this image can be blasted?
>>I don't suppose this image is already melting?
>>
Chauncey;
>
>Role playing is coming back just look at some of the newer ones ie Legands
>of the Five Rings.

I haven't heard of that at all and at least I go into a game store sometimes.

Sorry guys, the whole RPG market is a niche market, including CCGs.  It is
definitely out of vogue in terms of paper.  On the other hand, the Computer
RPG market is still growing strong.  Daggerfall was at least mildly
successful (for those who say "what?" Daggerfall is a first person
perspective D&D-like Adventure Game) for a computer game, and that's wildly
sucessful compared to a conventional RPG.

Unless something truly interesting and different happens, Traveller will
continue to be a legacy market, withthe people on this list, and the
non-computer oriented equivalents being pretty much the market for any new
Traveller products coming down the line.  I hope I'm wrong, but that's my
opinion.

That said, there are a tremendous number of "new" products in circulation.
Letter of Marque and the new BITS books are one example, but the
proliferation of web-published stuff is simply amazing.  Need an adventure?
Search!  There's a lot of new material out there waiting to be used, and
its all free!  Consider, though, dropping the author a note of thanks when
you do use it, and a bit of commentary.

Traveller is alive and well, right here.  An attitude of serving the Legacy
Market might not be the ideal, but is is certainly better than no Traveller
at all.  Unless Marc can pull the proverbial rabbit out of his hat (and I
sincerely hope he can), were it!  and what we can support is all we can
rely on being supported.

Whew!  Enough ranting.

Pete


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #677
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Wednesday, July 22 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 678



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Hats
Re: Why Milspec ships have so many crew members...
Re: Referree Generated Sectors?
Re: Referree Generated Sectors?
Re: Referree Generated Sectors?
Re: Hats
Re: Referree Generated Sectors?
Detailed system generators
Online Galaxy
Re: Traveller GEEZER Club...
Ship repair/alteration times
Re: Traveller GEEZER Club...
Re: Ship repair/alteration times
Re: Traveller: starting and otherwise
re Antigravity
Re Antigravity
Re: Traveller-Websites
Re: Traveller-Websites
Traveller Chat...The Movie!!!!!
Re: Traveller GEEZER Club...
Re: Why Milspec ships have so many crew members...
Re: AntiGravity
Re: Ship repair/alteration times

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 21:48:51 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Re: Hats

OK, I've seen a test "print", and some trivial changes needed to
be made.  That was the cause of the delay on the response; the
changes have been made, and tentatively have my approval.  The
original "errors" were mostly due to a misinterpretation of my
explanation, coupled with an odd rendering of the picture.

The sun did not come out quite like on the logo - the rays do not
have the small curve at the tip, and are extended a little
farther along the circle.  It doesn't look bad, though.

Their color selection doesn't entirely please me; at the moment,
the only color combo I can wholeheartedly recommend is the yellow
sun on black cap.  Others may become possible; stay tuned.

However, I am not yet ready to take orders.  There are some
issues which are outstanding in regards to ensuring that I have
approval from all necessary quarters; I am awaiting a response to
a request in that connection - and I cannot in good conscience
assume that "silence give assent".  As soon as those issues are
cleared up, I will update the list.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 16:49:11 -0500
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: Re: Why Milspec ships have so many crew members...

Bruce Johnson posted:
<snippage of the Navy being introduced to a little IT Reality>
>BUT, ObTrav...what happens when your high automation ship suffers a
>disruption?

If you're a merchant on a milk run, send out the distress signal of the day.

If you're a ship in combat...to quote TNE, "Say goodnight, hoss!"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 14:59:39 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Referree Generated Sectors?

Sun, 19 Jul 1998 16:19:12 -0500, Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>

>>Marc Miller wrote:
>>>One product I want to see in T5 is a package called Faraway Sector.
>>>Provisions
>>>for locating a sector at some point close enough to interact with
>>>Traveller's
>>>known space, but far away enough that it isn't driven by its events.
>>>Components would include blank sector and subsector maps, etc etc.
>>>Rules/books
>>>would guide the refere through creating the sector, including why there are
>>>humans there, what other minor races there are (human and non human), the
>>>interatctions one can expect, etc.

After the debate on this for T4 was over, I decided the best
thing is not "blank space" because, in my experience, you still
have to deal with it (players ask what is "over there", etc.)
and it represents work before you can even play.

I decided the thing to do is that some worlds, or a region,
are developed along with everything else, but flagged as
"non-canonical" in that the info can be modified or replaced
by GM's without having to worry about contricting things
in future supplements.  That way there aren't big
blank areas for unexplained reasons but a GM has
the flexibility he needs.

>>(I have heard SJG has at least a paragraph for EVERY WORLD in the
>>Marches.)

>There *is* a small "however" associated with SJG's GT and _Behind The
>Claw_, though.  It doesn't look like they will be using UWP's to
>describe the main worlds.  Ok, UWP's aren't a GURPS thing, but I
>certainly wish they would include them even if they didn't explain them
>in the text at all.

Well, you could always use the ones out of CT or MT....

_______________________________________________________________
DSummers@Mail.ARC.NASA.gov

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 15:05:58 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Referree Generated Sectors?

Sun, 19 Jul 1998 16:19:12 -0500, Eris Reddoch
<reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>

>>Marc Miller wrote:
>>>One product I want to see in T5 is a package called Faraway Sector. Provisions
>>>for locating a sector at some point close enough to interact with Traveller's
>>>known space, but far away enough that it isn't driven by its events.
>>>Components would include blank sector and subsector maps, etc etc. Rules/books
>>>would guide the refere through creating the sector, including why there are
>>>humans there, what other minor races there are (human and non human), the
>>>interatctions one can expect, etc.

After the debate on this for T4 was over, I decided the best
thing is not "blank space" because, in my experience, you still
have to deal with it (players ask what is "over there", etc.)
and it represents work before you can even play.

I decided the thing to do is that some worlds, or a region,
are developed along with everything else, but flagged as
"non-canonical" in that the info can be modified or replaced
by GM's without having to worry about contricting things
in future supplements.  That way there aren't big
blank areas for unexplained reasons but a GM has
the flexibility he needs.

>>(I have heard SJG has at least a paragraph for EVERY WORLD in the
>>Marches.)

>There *is* a small "however" associated with SJG's GT and _Behind The
>Claw_, though.  It doesn't look like they will be using UWP's to
>describe the main worlds.  Ok, UWP's aren't a GURPS thing, but I
>certainly wish they would include them even if they didn't explain them
>in the text at all.

Well, you could always use the ones out of CT or MT....
 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 15:08:13 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Referree Generated Sectors?

Sun, 19 Jul 1998 17:49:36 -0600, "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
> >Well, the UWP¥s can be found in other sources, however. I consider
> that to be a boon as i don¥t
> >get the information included in the CT-SM supplement again.
> >ok, it¥s not all in a book and you got to have both books handy, but
> it leaves more space for
> >new info and helps keep the price down!
 
> 	That's great for all of us CT/MT/TNE/T4/T5/T98 ... owners, but
> doesn't provide *any* help at all to the prospective new buyer of
> Traveller material.

Its mostly the Traveller veterans that like them, IMO.  New players,
in my experience, find having to memorize what the digits
stand for and always flip to a table to be daunting....

At least I do, and I've been playing for years!
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 15:27:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
Subject: Re: Hats

I'd really appreciate it if you might take a photo of the product and post
it to a web page. Do you have that capability?

Ben

- --
Brannon "Ben" Boren
http://www.mog.net/brannonb/index.html

On Tue, 21 Jul 1998, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:

> OK, I've seen a test "print", and some trivial changes needed to
> be made.  That was the cause of the delay on the response; the
> changes have been made, and tentatively have my approval.  The
> original "errors" were mostly due to a misinterpretation of my
> explanation, coupled with an odd rendering of the picture.
> 
> The sun did not come out quite like on the logo - the rays do not
> have the small curve at the tip, and are extended a little
> farther along the circle.  It doesn't look bad, though.
> 
> Their color selection doesn't entirely please me; at the moment,
> the only color combo I can wholeheartedly recommend is the yellow
> sun on black cap.  Others may become possible; stay tuned.
> 
> However, I am not yet ready to take orders.  There are some
> issues which are outstanding in regards to ensuring that I have
> approval from all necessary quarters; I am awaiting a response to
> a request in that connection - and I cannot in good conscience
> assume that "silence give assent".  As soon as those issues are
> cleared up, I will update the list.
> --
> Jeff Zeitlin
> jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 15:34:30 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Referree Generated Sectors?

Mon, 20 Jul 1998 01:03:43 -0700, shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
>  Perhaps they (SJG) could at least make the 1120 SM UWP's available
>on the web-site just like the TNS updates, etc?

You could always suggest it....


_______________________________________________________________
DSummers@Mail.ARC.NASA.gov

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 18:24:43 -0500
From: Talisman <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Detailed system generators

I am looking for a program that generates detailed systems and allows them to
be printed out.
- --
My god, it's full of stars!


Http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/4467

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 18:38:10 -0500
From: Talisman <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Online Galaxy

Some time ago I found a website that had an entire galaxy online done in
Travaller stats.  Does anyone know the URL of this page?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 16:38:03 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller GEEZER Club...

> Now I think that we all know how old the Traveller audience is... we should
> maybe make a turn to see how we can get new ppl to start playing this great
> game that I love soo  Much.

I'm 27 yo & have been playing Traveller for 19 years.  So does that make me
an old Traveller Geezer?

Legate Legion
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"The system does not matter, its ROLE-Playing that matters." - Me to
Acid_Blue, Chuckles, & Rob the Lumberjackman.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 17:11:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Ship repair/alteration times

Hm...in a plot I'm considering running, players would have reason/need to
perform substantial repairs on a fairly large ship (they have some help), but
I'd be curious about people's estimates on time/practicality of various
alterations.

The situation is that they are stuck on a minor planet (Hefry, in the spinward
marches) with blown J-drives, no ships in-system, and an unstable star which is
expected to flare and sterilize the system in the relatively near future.  Only
one ship has arrived in the past three months, and it had its drives blow out
when it arrived; scout ships which had been in system left some time ago with
messages and there has been no evident response.  The PCs have been recruited
to assist with evacuation....

For this task, they have access to a class C port, the scout base (as noted,
currently no interstellar ships), anything they can convince Hefry to give them
(TL 7 world, not really industrial or fully self-sufficient, but it's a vacuum
world so they know something about life support), with the limitation that the
scouts haven't _told_ the citizens exactly what's going on, on the theory that
adding riots to the mix probably wouldn't help.

They also have two large colony ships -- actually, converted TL 11 merchants --
each one is J-1, with enough fuel capacity for two jumps, some 12,000 low
berths (I am letting them run 4/ton; perhaps its a colonizer special), and
about 5000 tons of cargo capacity.  That's the good news.

Unfortunately, these ships have been lost for several centuries, and aren't
exactly in 'new' condition.  Tasks which players might want/need to deal with:

The power plants have been inactive for several centuries.  It will take some
work to bring them back on line.  Even if brought on line, they won't run at
100%, which will cause uncomfortable brownouts during jump.  This may not be
fixable while here, but they _must_ be brought on line.

The jump drives are almost certainly out of tune, and may not be operational;
they definately need a checkup, and would do better with a full tuning which
can't be performed here.

Not all the cold berths work.  About 20% are definately dead.  About 40% look
like they work (based on diagnostics), but might not.  Another 40% have
questionable (or broken) diagnostics, and might or might not actually work. 
Putting people in cold sleep chambers with questionable diagnostics will
probably give a much higher than average chance of dying, so it may be
desirable to go over the cold berths.

The cargo holds are still basically sealed, but the ship was not designed with
sufficient life support capability to transport people in the holds, it just
can't recycle that much.  With proper life support and construction of bunks,
the holds could carry as many as ten thousand people (per colonizer bunks in
the world tamer's handbook).  About a thousand tons of space on each ship
actually is configured in this way, the rest is not.  The life support requires
a full recharge in any case, it wasn't designed to be left this way, and
there's some corrosion damage.  This _needs_ to be repaired.

The fuel tanks _leak_ -- roughly 2% of total capacity per day.  While not
crippling, it means that the ship cannot perform two consecutive jumps.  It
would be desireable to fix these leaks, though that's probably not currently
solvable.

The manuever drives are only working at around 60% of capacity.  Again, this
probably can't be solved at a class C port.

Ok, questions are:
a)  How long do various tasks take?
b)  What tasks am I missing?
c)  How doable is this in the first place?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:35:55 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller GEEZER Club...

- -----Original Message-----
From: Legate Legion <legate@futureone.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Tuesday, July 21, 1998 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: Traveller GEEZER Club...


>
>I'm 27 yo & have been playing Traveller for 19 years.  So does that make me
>an old Traveller Geezer?
>
A mere child! Why my son is only three years younger and has played almost
as long! Quick someone chase him back to his crib! (swinging a zero-gee jump
cane while everyone in the room ducks!)
Drat this upstart youngsters... always interrupting my nap! Nurse could you
fluff my pillow again, please!

Mike Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com
"Help Wanted: Telepath, You know where to apply!"  unknown, bumper sticker.
Geezer-at-large, watchout for his cane!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 18:13:12 -0700
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Re: Ship repair/alteration times

>
>Ok, questions are:
>a)  How long do various tasks take?
>b)  What tasks am I missing?
>c)  How doable is this in the first place?


To be honest, the only solution I see with this scenario, is getting the
colonists into the low berths, then high-tailing it to an outer planet and
staying in the umbra (? shadow the planet casts...) until after the flare
was over.  It would be a better chance than trying to Jump archaic ships.
They have nothing going for them - no industrial base, no source of spare
parts, no repair equipment.

Now, if there were a relic of the FFW, say a tender ship that was fleeing a
battle, misjumped into the system but suffered a catastrophic life support
failure (better yet, the jump grid has been so severely damaged that the
crew died of Jump sickness) that could be utilized, then they might have a
chance...  Assuming, of course, that the old prospector who found the ship
(still worth several hundred megacredits) and has been using it to reduce
his own ship's mainenance costs can be pursuaded into revealing the location
of his find.  Damage to the tender is such that only limited life support
can be established, the computers are extremely unreliable - but the
machinery and repair equipment are still online and available to experienced
engineers and mechanics - provided they can work in hard-vacuum
conditions...  ;)

douglas

E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller
IMTU tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls
The early bird gets the worm, BUT
   the second mouse gets the cheese!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 17:24:44 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller: starting and otherwise

At 06:20 pm 7/21/98 +0100, you wrote:
>frinking Scotch and being interrupted by their children.... (Ducks
quickly)
 ^^^^^^^^

	Is this legal in your country? More to the point, are you doing it
to *good* scotch? Because, if so, I'm afraid I'll have to let loose
the usual near-c asteroid.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 17:44:05 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: re Antigravity

>sorry my friend, this breaks several laws, especially conservation of
>momentum.  (I realize you are merely reporting this, not coming up with
>it yourself)  We may not know everything about the universe, but in
>general, what we know about physics remains true even in the light of
>later developments, except for particular exceptions and circumstances.
>Besides, how much additional mass will the magnet and its support
>structure add to the vehicle.  Also, how will you keep it in line, and
>spinning.  And, how will you power said system, and keep THAT weight
>down.  The anti grav and contra grav we use in Trav is fun, nice to have,
>etc. but frankly they break way too many laws.  Personally, I have my
>doubts that such things, in the way Trav describes and/or uses them, are
>possible.

Actually, the propoesed NASA system is not a mounted unit, but a ground
based unit. And not "Pseudo Science, either, Jim. There have been small
scale tests (replicated in three labs worldwide) that show the assembly to
reduce weight on the order of about 2% of object above them, using spring
scales, and also seems to reduce mass, as the demostration when it was
kicked up showed that the balanced mass scale displaced to the side that
was not over the device. NASA was looking to check whether this was a micro
or macro scale event.

To quote a physicist of my acquaintaince "What we know we call physics;
what we don't we call bunk; bunk becomes physics often." [Harry Wasink,
1997, during a conversation at the polling place.]



William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 17:50:57 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re Antigravity

JLAROSEE@aol.com posted an article from Popular Mechanics. THanks. Gives
some more creedence to Discovery Channel...


William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 21:56:25 -0500
From: "James Pearson" <jdpearson@wr.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-Websites

Check out my message board link at:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/4089//index.html

> Hello all,
> 
> For those of you who are interested, I've got a small Traveller section on
> my web pages at
> 
> http://www.innotts.co.uk/~paulradford/
> 
> It contains a campaign consisting of of about 10 linked adventures. Now if
> only other people could take more trouble to perhaps put some of their
> adventures on the net?
> 
> Some vehicle designs with images may be going on in the near future as
> well.
> 
> <lurk>
> 
> Cheers,
> 




Visit the Computer Profits Website
A wealth of information
http://www.computerprofits.virtual-spaces.com
James Pearson / Pearson Publishing
pearsonpub@computerprofits.virtual-spaces.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:16:24 -0700
From: Skoal <skoal@mail.gci-net.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-Websites

Hi all
My new site is up at
http://www.gci-net.com/users/s/skoal/tnet4.html

Let me know what ya think?!?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:49:24 -7
From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
Subject: Traveller Chat...The Movie!!!!!

Howdy folks!

Once again, we boldly go where no regular IRC channel would dare 
to tread.

#traveller
Undernet
6 PM PDT, 9 EDT
Thursday, July 23, 1998

The topic this week:

In an effort to perhaps get some creative juices flowing for all the 
graybeards in this group, I thought it would be great to see different 
people's idea of the best campaign or adventure they've ever played 
or run, and why it was the best. 

The Best Adventure/Campaign You've Ever Played In/Run And 
WHY!

It should be an opportunity for some good conversation, and maybe 
create a new perspective on everybody's favorite game, heck 
maybe you can even steal/plagiarize/draw inspiration from some of 
your cohorts.

Abraham Lincoln missed one of our chat sessions, and you know 
what happened to him, so consider yourself warned.  :-)

Stu

P.S. For a transcript of this or previous Traveller Chat logs, e-mail 
me at sdollar@goodnet.com
Stuart L. Dollar                sdollar@goodnet.com
- ---------------------------------------------------
Published Game Designer, Frustrated Novelist
"Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God."
- -Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 21:06:35 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller GEEZER Club...

> From: Michael D. Peters <Letterworks@citnet.com>
> >I'm 27 yo & have been playing Traveller for 19 years.  So does that make me
> >an old Traveller Geezer?
> A mere child! Why my son is only three years younger and has played almost
> as long! Quick someone chase him back to his crib! (swinging a zero-gee jump
> cane while everyone in the room ducks!)

Whipping out my Plasma Rifle-20 I blast your cane.  See pops, gamers are
young, not old. *rweg*

> Drat this upstart youngsters... always interrupting my nap! Nurse could you
> fluff my pillow again, please!

Maybe you should take something for it? *rweg*

> Mike Peters

Legate Legion, Militant Jewish Terrorist
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"The system does not matter, its ROLE-Playing that matters." - Me to
Acid_Blue, Chuckles, & Rob the Lumberjackman.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 21:18:35 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Why Milspec ships have so many crew members...

In mail you write:

>> BUT, ObTrav...what happens when your high automation ship suffers a
>> disruption?
>
> You switch to your next back up computer.  THIS is why there are three
> computers in starships.

Sorry, you just died.

Three computers will *only* help if the problem is a *hardware*
failure. If there's a bug in the *software* (ie, the programmer forget
to tell it how to handle situation X), then all three will fail
identically.

That's why one of the *5* computers on the Space Shuttle is of a
different architecture, and was supposed to have independently written
software. Alas, they managed to crash all 5 at least once, because
while the software was written independently, the programmers had been
using the same (incorrect!) algorithm. 

If you dig thru the comp.risks archives, you'll read all sorts of
instances where "failure proof" computer systems failed.

In at least *some* countries, certain levels of safety-critical systems
(like controls for nuclear reactors) use CPUs that are rather
primitive, but which have a "provably correct" hardware design. This
means that they first sat down and designed the instruction set etc as
a set of mathematical equations. Then they went through them and
analayzed the hell out of them until they could *prove* that there
weren't any loopholes or unexpected "gotcha"s.

The next step is writing programs that are also provably correct, to
run on such hardware. This is a *major* undertaking, but in the long
run it doesn't seem to take that much longer than getting *all* the
bugs out of systems designed in a more traditional manner. 

Once you've got the software and hardware, you have to do things like
prove that the compiler is generating the proper instructions, and that
the CPU and the gear it's supposed to control are installed correctly. 

Heck, it could be that the reason it takes so long to change tech
levels in Traveller is that they actually take the time to design out
the bugs in advance rather than "hoping" they got them all.

That'd mean that for centuries before the "official" change of TL, you
could get higher TL items, or at least "subassemblies". But would *you*
want to trust your lifeto something that crashes as easily as Windows? :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 21:14:14 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: AntiGravity

In mail you write:

>>Has anyone gotten any follow up on the room temperature superconductor
>>reported by the scientist in New York?

> My gut feeling on this one is that it's either experimental error again or
> that someone has just discovered an exotic thermocouple, since they were
> actually claiming "negative" resistance, whatever that means...

Amplifiers (tube) exhibit negative resistance. You put in X volts and
you get out X time 2 volts (or whatever). Semiconductor based
amplifiers do the same with current.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 21:41:59 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Ship repair/alteration times

In mail you write:

> Hm...in a plot I'm considering running, players would have reason/need to
> perform substantial repairs on a fairly large ship (they have some help), but
> I'd be curious about people's estimates on time/practicality of various
> alterations.

<snip>

> b)  What tasks am I missing?

Many things on board will have "vacuum welded", even if there wasn't a
vacuum. A pair of clean metal surfaces, pressed against each other with
a bit of pressure *will* "weld" together in the course of "a few
centuries". This applies to things like switch contacts, parts
"sockets", etc. Picture trying to work on a PC where the "fingers" on
the card edge of the adapter boards have "become one with" the fingers
in the card socket. :-)

Also, Cosmic ray exposure (or exposure to high energy particles from
stellar flares, etc) over the centuries will add up to the equivalent
of a near miss with a nuke as far as *radiation* damage to electronics
is concerned. So all the electronics (but not the actual *wiring*) on
board is at least gonna be flaky, if not dead.

And semiconductor-based electronics will be in sad shape simply because
the P and N type dopants have migrated across the P/N junctions over
the centuries. 

In fact, if the party is smart, what they'll do to the electronics
stuff is just unbolt it, stuff it in a cargo net outside the ship, and
try to find stuff that can be used as "drop in" replacements. It's a
lot easier to make a mounting adapter out of sheert metal so you can
replace the old radar with a newer but smaller one than it is to *fix*
the old one.

Once they've got the stuff they can quickly "upgrade" done, then they
need to try fixing the rest. And that'll likely involve cannibalizing
the items they replaced. 

> c)  How doable is this in the first place?

I'd hate to be the folks in charge. But it should be doable. Just very,
very difficult.

A variant scenario that'll have many of the same problems to be solved,
but not be quite as stressful would be trying to salvage the old ships
for a collector or museum. 

In this case, they have to try to fix the old gear, and and "upgrades"
they do for the purpose of getting it running, will have to be
reversible and not "damage" the ship. 

The time factor would be the possibility that someone else has found a
sinilar ship in better shape. They only get paid if they are the first
group to turn over the "antique".

This also means that they've got to bribe the port officials, because
the odds are that to keep it properly "antique" they'll have to break
or at least stretch some of the spaceworthiness regulations. :-)

That's a problem the guys in the emergency scenario *don't* have.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #678
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Wednesday, July 22 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 679



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Irate Pirates (pronounced so they rhyme)
Re: AntiGravity
Impressively Durable Aliens
Re: Why Milspec ships have so many crew members...
Re: Why Milspec ships have so many crew members...
Re: Re AntiGravity
Referee-generated sectors
TNE (or economics) question
Re: Why Milspec ships have so many crew members...
Re: Why Milspec ships have so many crew members...
Re: re Antigravity
Mobile Starports
Re: Impressively Durable Aliens
Re: Traveller: starting and otherwise
Re: Why Milspec ships have so many crew members...
Re AntiGravity
TRAVELLER ON CD ROM
11 hours and counting
Re: Re: Re AntiGravity
Re: Why Milspec ships have so many crew members...
Trading rules for TNE
Re: 11 hours and counting
Vilani / Solomani
re: Detailed system generators
Re: Hats

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 01:57:55 EDT
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Irate Pirates (pronounced so they rhyme)

To those who collect such things, the deckplans to the Bird of Paradise, a
"Pirate" ship of some repute, are now available at my website:

http://members.aol.com/gypsycomet/index.html

 ...and look at the "NEW" section.  This ship is my take on the classic Type P
Corsair, based on a couple pictures and the silhouette in DGPs Starship
Operators Manual.  Hope you find it useful...

GypsyComet

"What's the FIRST letter in the pirate alphabet?!?!"  
"AARRRRR!"
"What's the LAST letter in the pirate alphabet?!?!"
"AARRRRR!"
"What're all the REST of the letters in the pirate alphabet?!?!"
"AARRRRR!"

"See? Who says pirates are illiterate?"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 00:59:01 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: AntiGravity

On 07/21/98 at 09:14 PM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:

>>>Has anyone gotten any follow up on the room temperature superconductor
>>>reported by the scientist in New York?

>> My gut feeling on this one is that it's either experimental error again or
>> that someone has just discovered an exotic thermocouple, since they were
>> actually claiming "negative" resistance, whatever that means...

>Amplifiers (tube) exhibit negative resistance. You put in X volts and
>you get out X time 2 volts (or whatever). Semiconductor based
>amplifiers do the same with current.

As I understand it all the previously known cases required high voltage.

It would be interesting if it turns out that cold fusion, anti-gravity,
and room temp superconductivity all are doable.  Doubtful, but certainly
interesting.  ;->

The on-line article I read blathered on about pulling energy out of
nothing and perpetual motion, so I didn't give it a lot of credence.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 00:14:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Impressively Durable Aliens

I just saw a nature special on deep sea volcanic vents (the ones which
chemosynthetic life forming the basis of the local ecology because
sunlight has never penetrated there). 

There were these white palm-sized crabs. Other than being dead white and
likely blind they looked like perfectly normal crabs. Not only could the
endure the *250* atmospheres of pressure down there, one of them made
several trips up to the surface and back down w/o harm.  No special
decompression was used, it was just carried in the claw of the pressure
armored sub.  It was also perfectly happy in a tank of water on the
surface, and could even live in the air for a while. 

These same crabs could feed on things a couple of centimeters from the 150
degrees C caustic, sulfur rich, water coming from the vents and also live
comfortably in the 2 degrees C water in the rest of the region. 

Here we have a life-form which could live on in a household aquarium on
Earth and could almost walk safely on the surface of *Venus*.  With a
mildly refrigerated suit and some high pressure oxygenated water it could
likely visit the surface of Venus a *whole* lot easier than we could (the
pressure wouldn't even phase it).  I'm pretty impressed. 

Make such a thing sentient and you have one damn impressive PC.


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:00:00 +0100 (BST)
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Why Milspec ships have so many crew members...

>BUT, ObTrav...what happens when your high automation ship suffers a
>disruption?

In space, no one can hear you scream ...


	Ewan Quibell
	Data Communications Technician        The Game's afoot:
	Computer Centre                       Follow your spirit, and apon
	University of Brighton                  this charge
                                              Cry 'God for Harry, England,
	E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              and Saint George !'

                                                    Henry V 3:1
	#include<stddisclamer.h>                    W. Shakespeare

	My spelling is entierly due to dyslexia, typoes and poetic license

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 00:00:50 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Why Milspec ships have so many crew members...

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote

> BUT, ObTrav...what happens when your high automation ship suffers a
> disruption?

This depends on how bad on a disruption it is.  If it is a mild
disruption just announce that it now counts as normal automation or low
automation.  If you use a combat system that given dammage results like
computer minus 1 (a la High Guard) than you can refigure the Control
Modifier (MT & FFS1 term) to correspond with that of the new "smaller"
computer.  Refigure the number of crew needed to adjust.  If your old
high automation ahip had 12 guns & 4 gunners but with low automation it
needs eight gunners than obviously you can only fire half your guns
unless you pull people from somewhere else.  The only problem is you
probably do not have anyone to spare because you have the same problem
everywhere else.  If the dammage has already cost you some crew & you
were already understaffed than you are really up a creek without a
paddle.  So if you are a military (or paranoid) ships architect you may
want to include enough crew to handle the ship when you loose some of
your automation.  On the other hand crew need quarters & life support
which means you have less left over for bigger guns, more armor &
screens, bigger power plants, higher acceleration, bigger computers &
the like which might have helped avoid the dammage in the first place.

Of course if you are a true cynic you will assume that military ships
have lower degrees of automation than is adviseable because lower
automation means your navy needs more crew in it.  More crew need more
officers to supervise them.  This means more promotion slots are
available.  This means _you_ have a better chance of promotion.  If you
were a Naval officer on the Naval Construction advisery board what would
you pick? [Note that I am not saying this simply to pick on the
military, the fact that people tend to behave in this manner is one of
the premises of public chioice theory in political science & is called
rent seeking behavior by economists.]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 01:55:06 -0700
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
Subject: Re: Re AntiGravity

Leonard Erickson wrote:
...
> Well, anti-gravity in *general* doesnn't break any laws. Heck, I canm
> draw you up plans for a unit that even eminent physicists would agree
> will work. It's just that you'll have to dig up a supply of "neutronium
> dust" or some other similarly dense dust or fluid to make it work. :-)

Please do, or at least describe it.  I think that would be very
interesting.

Kristian

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 12:20:30 +0000
From: "Carlos Alos-Ferrer" <Carlos.Alos-Ferrer@univie.ac.at>
Subject: Referee-generated sectors

>>Marc Miller wrote:
>>>One product I want to see in T5 is a package called Faraway Sector.
>>>Provisions for locating a sector at some point close enough to
>>>interact with Traveller's known space, but far away enough that it
>>>isn't driven by its events. Components would include blank sector

How funny... this describes approximately my house sector, 
New Hope, on which I am starting a campaign next September... it is 
located just outside the 1120-border of charted space.

OK, maybe mine is slightly too far away to interact with Traveller 
universe on a regular basis, but it's close enough to be full of 
Traveller races...

See it at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/8772

(it's called Beyond the Extents Campaign)

Carlos a.k.a. the Geonee-maker

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 12:22:34 +0100
From: trisen@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: TNE (or economics) question

I am trying to build an economic model for a  TL12/13  balkanised
world based on the "Colonial Economics" chapter of  World Tamer's
Handbook (TNE) and have run into a stumbling block.

Both the road network table and the vehicle table on p33 only  go
as far as TL8.  I know roads aren't replaced by gravetics at  TL8
(fused roads are available at TL12+).

Does anyone have an eratta for WTH or know what data these tables
should have above TL8 (especially TL12 and TL13)?

Thanks in advance.

Regards PLST
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen

___________________________________
To sign up for a free email account, visit http://www.postmaster.co.uk.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 05:33:07 PDT
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Why Milspec ships have so many crew members...

>>> BUT, ObTrav...what happens when your high automation ship suffers 
>>> disruption?
>
>
>That'd mean that for centuries before the "official" change of TL, 
>you could get higher TL items, or at least "subassemblies". But would 
>*you* want to trust your lifeto something that crashes as easily as 
>Windows? :-)
>

What he said!  I was thinking the same thing as I was reading this.  The 
Vilani would wait until it was a certain thing before changing...

Greg Smith
The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 07:46:00 -0500
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: Re: Why Milspec ships have so many crew members...

It's kinda unnerving how TML threads often sync with current news stories.

Just yesterday, abc.com which began in the following manner:

"Morse code, a 160-year-old technology that's been pronounced dead once
again, is proving a lively corpse. The world's first digital mode is still
in daily use by ham operators and others who prize its simplicity, economy
and ability to get the message through under tough conditions."

The journalist brought up a good point that Morse code can be sent
and understood under conditions that would absolutely trash voice
transmissions. Has anyone deliberately built low-TL systems into
ship designs as a backup for hi-TL system failures. If so, what
are the advantages?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 08:45:24 -0400
From: warmind@juno.com (james a clem)
Subject: Re: re Antigravity

On Tue, 21 Jul 1998 17:44:05 -0800 "William F. Hostman"
<aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU> writes:

>
>Actually, the propoesed NASA system is not a mounted unit, but a 
>ground
>based unit. And not "Pseudo Science, either, Jim. There have been 
>small
>scale tests (replicated in three labs worldwide) that show the 
>assembly to
>reduce weight on the order of about 2% of object above them, using 
>spring
>scales, and also seems to reduce mass, as the demostration when it was
>kicked up showed that the balanced mass scale displaced to the side 
>that
>was not over the device. NASA was looking to check whether this was a 
>micro
>or macro scale event.
>


Well I also consider using the shuttle to launch comsats to be akin to
using a Rolls Royce to move your couch, but thats another soap box.  If
its ground based, is no one considering inverse square??  Still doesnt
work for me.

Also, if its small scale, watch out.  I'm not a physicist, but an
engineer, so I'm automatically skeptical of scalings.  Theory and reality
just don't match up more often than not.

Jim A. Clem, B.S.E.
CEO and Founder, Diasporan Industries, Inc.
www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081/
Traveller Geek Code tc+ tm !tn tt t4+ ru+() ge++ !3i jt au (+) st ls(+)
pi+ he++ merc++ dt+++
GM:  The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 08:31:15 -0500
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: Mobile Starports

This morning, abc.com posted another interesting story with Traveller
ramifications.

Earlier this month, a Russion nuclear sub was used to launch the 
German satellite TUBSAT from beneath the Barents Sea. This
gave me the idea of having the starport(s) on some water worlds
(or any world with a large fluid surface area) actually be *mobile*
platforms. By mobile, I mean they actually move about the fluid
surface over time, shifting locations in response to weather 
patterns, etc.

Obviously, standard landing transponders are critical and water
landings are much easier with thrust plates than with HePlar and
gas-based attitude thrusters but what other issues need to be 
addressed to make an "open sea" star/spaceport workable?
Wouldn't such a platform need to remain out at sea rather than
close to shore to minimize the wave effects from earthquakes,
tsunamis, undersea volcanic eruptions, etc?

A wild adventure hook would be to have a Class C/D mobile
starport on a low TL world attacked by pirates...in a 3-master
flying the Jolly Roger! Of course, any such galleon would become
toasted (literally!) by even a Scoutship mounting a laser but
how about taking on something like a Missouri-class
battleship?

Or having to hunt down and stop the Red October from sinking the
starport?

I *know* the Wet Navy rules from GDW's Challenge magazine were
posted to a website. Anybody know the URL?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 07:04:17 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Impressively Durable Aliens

John R. Snead wrote:

> Here we have a life-form which could live on in a household aquarium on
> Earth and could almost walk safely on the surface of *Venus*.  With a
> mildly refrigerated suit and some high pressure oxygenated water it could
> likely visit the surface of Venus a *whole* lot easier than we could (the
> pressure wouldn't even phase it).  I'm pretty impressed.
> 
> Make such a thing sentient and you have one damn impressive PC.

Well, think about it a minute...the thing is already walking around in body
armor, no lungs, three-and-a-half neurons for a nervous system...not much _to_
break there ;-)

Seriously, most smaller critters manage the pressure differential well, it's
all a matter of surface:volume ratio; as that number goes down, you have more
trouble dealing with pressure changes, because the dissolved gases can't
diffuse out of your body quickly enough. In fact, the thing that usually kills
them is not the pressure differential, but the temperature one...most
very-deep sea creatures are built for very cold water. These crabs are able to
handle wide temperature diffs.

Also...they looked very much like 'normal' crabs because that's pretty much
exactly what they are...pigmentation is one of the first things lost on
adaptation to a dark environment, witness white or colorless cave crickets,
salamanders and others...this happens very quickly in evolutionary terms, long
before other significant morphological changes occur.

But isn't it astonishing where life flourishes? (Witness, the crabs only get
_close_ to the vent, but they're feeding on stuff that _lives_ in the vent!)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:06:17 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Traveller: starting and otherwise

>MJ Dougherty wrote:
>
>> Interesting, how times have changed.
>>
>> Gone are the days of a bag of crisps and a can of coke on the gaming table.
>>
>> Last week we had several bags of crisps, but the drink was single-malt
>> whisky.
>>
>
>Hmmm. We used to have a tradition during Traveller games. One of the
>players (I
>couldn't, as the referee) was designated the bartender, and would brew Long
>Island Iced Tea for the rest of us. Needless to say, as the gaming went on
>into
>the evening, the actual quality of play tended to deteriorate. (Of course, my
>refereeing wasn't affected :-)  ).
>
>Nowadays, though, it's just Coke after Coke. The sugar high we all feel
>tends to
>make us all very hyper towards the end of the session though.

My problem: Our drink of chooice (after the microbrews go down) is black
coffee, which causes problems right before bedtime.  Also, I don't know how
much longer I can play until 11pm oon a weeknight.

Ahhh. Age.  Now I can afford all these neato supplements I haven't the time
to play or prepare.  Damn.

Pete


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 07:19:36 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Why Milspec ships have so many crew members...

Smart, David J (David) wrote:

> The journalist brought up a good point that Morse code can be sent
> and understood under conditions that would absolutely trash voice
> transmissions.

Also, Morse code can be sent _silently_. I saw a show on various special
forces (SF, Seals, SAS, etc) and they showed a scout up there 20 meters away
from the bad guys sending his report on a morse key strapped to his leg.

as far as building in lowtech backups, well, for something as complex as a
starship, it'll be kinda difficult, because there's a limit to _how_ low tech
you would be able to go. Ships controls are pretty much limited, about the
_only_ thing amenable to low tech improvisation would be commo. For that you
need a current source and antenna (spark gap radio), or a light source and
reflector (heliostat) and hope like hell that you can aim it at someone
looking for a signal that low powered.

And _both_ would likely use Morse or the Vilani equivalent encoding...

In fact I see the Vilani hanging on to a Morse type system for _far_ longer.
Not only is it desirably old and traditional, it requires a specially trained
person (caste) to send, recieve and decode it.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:22:01 -0700
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Re AntiGravity

"William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU> writes:
>Any word on NASA's superconductor Mass Reduction system?
>(I saw a program on the effect on the Discovery Channel a few months ago.
>Basically, a spinning superconducting magnet inside a magnetic field
>apparently reduces mass of objects above said asembly. Supposedly, NASA is
>looking into it as a means of decreased needed thrust for initial boost by
>decreasing mass of the launch vehicle. I suppose it would also change the
>ISP of the fuel reaction, too... but I wonder...)

Wired magazine carried an article on this a few months ago.
A lot of people are looking into it, but nobody is making any loud claims.



- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for 
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked" 
                 http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:26:38 -0400
From: "chauncey smith" <Csmith@icdc.com>
Subject: TRAVELLER ON CD ROM

Some time ago some one wrote about a traveller CD rom Archieve.. I'm now
intersted in this please email me with information about this Archieve thank
ya.


csmith@ICDC.COM
Chauncey Smith AKA drkmage

With out heresay there may never be any change,
With out change there there death....... Dulinor

ITMU: tc tm+ tn++ ?tg tt !to ru ge+ 3i c++ jt- au+ st++ ls pi- ta++ he++
     kk hi+ as va ?dr ith+ ?vr ?ne so zh++ vi+ dr++ sy-

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:43:17 -0600
From: Loren Wiseman <lkw@io.com>
Subject: 11 hours and counting

GURPS Traveller goes to press in about 11 hours. It is going to be a long
day, just like yesterday.

Softback: 176 pages, stock number 6600, US$26.95. ISBN 1-55634-349-3
If all goes well, we should ship in late August.

Hardback: Available a few weeks after the softback.  176 pages, stock
number 6602, US$TBA. ISBN 1-55634-356-6

More news when my brain stops throbbing.


Loren Wiseman
 Marketing Director
 Steve Jackson Games
LKW@io.com
 http://www.sjgames.com/
 Phone:512/447-7866
 Fax:  512/447-1144

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:56:41 -0400
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Re AntiGravity

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
> "Remember" the uproar the Michaelson-Morely experiment caused? It broke
> a lot of laws too.

You may be old, Leonard, but are you really old enough to remember 
when the Michaelson-Morely experiment happened? Really. 

Ethan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 16:02:36 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: Why Milspec ships have so many crew members...

At 12:00 AM 7/22/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote
>
>> BUT, ObTrav...what happens when your high automation ship suffers a
>> disruption?
>
>This depends on how bad on a disruption it is.  If it is a mild
>disruption just announce that it now counts as normal automation or low
>automation.  If you use a combat system that given dammage results like
>computer minus 1 (a la High Guard) than you can refigure the Control
>Modifier (MT & FFS1 term) to correspond with that of the new "smaller"
>computer.  Refigure the number of crew needed to adjust.  If your old
>high automation ahip had 12 guns & 4 gunners but with low automation it
>needs eight gunners than obviously you can only fire half your guns
>unless you pull people from somewhere else.  The only problem is you
>probably do not have anyone to spare because you have the same problem
>everywhere else.  If the dammage has already cost you some crew & you
>were already understaffed than you are really up a creek without a
>paddle.  So if you are a military (or paranoid) ships architect you may
>want to include enough crew to handle the ship when you loose some of
>your automation.  On the other hand crew need quarters & life support
>which means you have less left over for bigger guns, more armor &
>screens, bigger power plants, higher acceleration, bigger computers &
>the like which might have helped avoid the dammage in the first place.


One thing that always bugged me...

Is the number of crew listed, other than screens and gunnery, the amount
for three shifts, or just one?  If it covers three shifts, then you could
loose quite a bit of crew and still be cobat worthy.  You may need to move
some DC teams from DC to some other task vital to fighting the ship, but it
can still fight.

Also, using the three shift consideration, you can fairly easily determine
the "on-duty" crew level and possibly even a minimum number needed for
operations.

Finally, would crew requirements be different for a military ship compared
to an equivalent civilian ship?  ie.:  10,000 dtons, J-3, 3G, and staffing
for power based on output or volume of the plant.  IMO, I would think that
they would be different, with the civilian requiring quite a bit fewer crew
members.

YMMV


Kurt Feltenberger

“We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a
habit.”
- --- Aristotle ---

mailto:kurt@blazenet.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 22:53:38 +0100
From: "Paul James" <paul@turing.tcp.co.uk>
Subject: Trading rules for TNE

Now I must admit I haven't been using the trading rules long (read for about
4 trips) but it does seem very hard to find any sort of decent trade route
in the RC area. Is there a better set of trading rules (or a howto for the
existing rules).

Cheers

Paul
(who having taken the day off work to finalise things for his first session
then got clouted on the head with a large piece of metal and spent far too
much time having to get it sorted)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 15:29:08 -0700
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: 11 hours and counting

Loren Wiseman wrote:

> GURPS Traveller goes to press in about 11 hours. It is going to be a long
> day, just like yesterday.
>
> Softback: 176 pages, stock number 6600, US$26.95. ISBN 1-55634-349-3
> If all goes well, we should ship in late August.
>
> Hardback: Available a few weeks after the softback.  176 pages, stock
> number 6602, US$TBA. ISBN 1-55634-356-6

Cool.

> More news when my brain stops throbbing.
>

Take a Handful of Motrin, wash 'em down with Tequila,and giggle madly. TRust
me you will feel much better.

> Loren Wiseman
>  Marketing Director
>  Steve Jackson Games
> LKW@io.com
>  http://www.sjgames.com/
>  Phone:512/447-7866
>  Fax:  512/447-1144



- --
Evyn,
Warleader of the Clan MacDude
Solus Stellamilitia Ludus, 1998 Œ

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 15:44:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
Subject: Vilani / Solomani

I can't seem to find anything on my T4 book about this.

What are the detectable differences between Vilani and Solomani? What book
would have fuller writeups?

Ben

- --
Brannon "Ben" Boren
http://www.mog.net/brannonb/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 00:00:32 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Detailed system generators

Talisman <shimmer@mhtc.net> wrote:

>I am looking for a program that generates detailed systems and allows them to
>be printed out.

Perhaps a hint at which OS you want it for would be useful....

Rob Prior is working on something for the Mac at the moment.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 22:28:50 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Re: Hats

On Wed, 22 Jul 1998 01:04:01 -0400, Brannon Boren
<brannonb@animal.blarg.net> wrote:

>I'd really appreciate it if you might take a photo of the product and post
>it to a web page. Do you have that capability?

Not yet.  The "test print" was actually done on a "scrap" hat,
which had other test prints on it; I haven't yet purchased my own
yet.  As I said, there are some issues that need to be cleared up
before I will be comfortable actually telling the supplier to go
into production, even for a singleton.  When/if I get the issues
cleared up, I _will_ get one done and postable.

- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #679
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Thursday, July 23 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 680



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

sad notice
Interplanetary internet proposed
Re: Detailed system generators
MT Ship Design Errata
Re: Vilani / Solomani
Re: Vilani / Solomani
Re: Mobile Starports
Re: Why Milspec ships have so many crew members...
Re: Mobile Starports
Re TNE Trading Rules
Re Mobile Spaceports
Re Humaniti Differences
Re Mixed Tech Ships
Re: Detailed system generators 
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #671
re : Trade
TNE Combat
Re: Traveller GEEZER Club...
Re: 11 hours and counting

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 16:57:14 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: sad notice

Strange coincidence, as I was just talking about the first mercury
flight...

Alan Shepard, first American astronaut in space, died today at the age
of 74.

Slim details and a long obit are up at CNN's web site.

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 17:07:50 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Interplanetary internet proposed

from the 7/22/98 NY Times:

An Interplanetary Internet Is In the Works

By BRUNO GIUSSANI 

    GENEVA -- "It's now time to start thinking beyond the Earth and get
working on the design of an interplanetary Internet." 

Vinton Cerf, widely considered the "father of the Internet," surprised
participants at the Internet Society's annual conference on Wednesday by
revealing that work has been under way for the last few months to extend
the reach of the Internet to outer space. 

NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory and major telecommunication companies
are involved in the project. 

"The next mission to Mars is now in the planning phase, and it is
important to make sure that the Internet protocols are used in its
communication architecture", said Cerf, a senior vice president with MCI
Communications Corp. 

The project would involve the creation of orbiting Internet gateways to
allow Internet-based communications to flow between the Earth and Mars
- -- or other planets. 

Cerf is a highly regarded figure in Internet circles, largely because of
his role in developing the TCP/IP protocol -- the set of basic rules
that govern communication between computers on the Internet. So the
crowd took his words seriously -- except perhaps when he half-jokingly
said that "one day we may need to create a localized '.mars' domain name
to be used in Internet addresses." 

It's likely that within the next 20 to 30 years, manned missions to
outer space will become almost commonplace, Cerf said. 

"We have, therefore, to make sure that as spatial exploration goes, the
Internet will be there to allow communication between the Earth and the
scientists and astronauts -- and maybe one day even tourists -- that are
up there," he said. 

The same Internet architecture may also facilitate the control of
robot-based machines used to explore distant planets. Delays and errors
in communication flows disrupted the Mars Pathfinder mission last year. 

"Given the time it took to develop the Internet -- the basic research
started in 1969 -- and considering the fact that we are talking about
putting hardware and software in outer space, we have to start working
on this now," Cerf said. 

In this way, he added, "when we get to a point when we need all the
services we have on Earth, but on, like, Mars, we have an infrastructure
in place." 

Cerf suggested that a likely initial scheme would be to progressively
launch Internet Interplanetary Gateways (IIG) around the Earth and other
planets that will act as routers for Internet traffic. 

Packets of data being sent to a Mars station would, for example, be sent
to the IIG satellite orbiting around the Earth using the Internet
Protocol (IP). After being automatically repackaged, they would be
transmitted to the Mars IIG using special long-delay protocols already
developed by NASA, converted back into the initial IP form and then sent
down to Mars. 

"Think of the Internet as it works today: it is a set of networks
connected one to another by routers," Cerf said. Routers are special
computers that manage and direct traffic flows on a network. 

The new project, he said, "would connect the Earth's Internet with Mars'
using the Interplanetary Gateways as routers." 

But why use a system based on Internet standards? 

One reason is standardization. Until now, NASA and other national space
administrations have created specialized software for every mission. 

Yet IP is rapidly establishing itself as the universal protocol for
digital communications. So why not use it in space? "IP works on top of
any transmission system, and every communication can be made -- and is
increasingly made -- over IP," Cerf said. 

Secondly, Cerf added, there is a cost issue involved. NASA has often
abandoned the special software and hardware designed for a mission after
it has served its purpose. "But if you have a standard Internet
Interplanetary Gateway orbiting around Mars, once the mission is over,
it remains there and can be used again," he added. 

In response to a question, Cerf said that research done to ensure smooth
and reliable communication at low speed over long distances in space
"could help solve the problems of high-speed, high-density Internet
traffic down here on Earth." 

This, in turn, may give the United States the control over an Internet
technology that is several generations ahead of today's. 

The Internet Society conference will last until Friday in Geneva. It
will be followed by an international summit of policy makers and
corporate representatives convened to discuss the future of the domain
name system, the Internet's addressing standard. 

Ira C. Magaziner, President Clinton's Internet adviser, and Robert
Verrue, the head of the European authority responsible for the
development of information infrastructure, are scheduled to attend. 

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 19:44:51 -0500
From: Talisman <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Detailed system generators

SD Mooney wrote:

> Perhaps a hint at which OS you want it for would be useful....
>

Well, of course it would help.  --Slaps self around violently--  I use win95/dos.

> Rob Prior is working on something for the Mac at the moment.
>
> Dom
>
> ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
> "Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
> that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
> You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
> 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
> MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/



- --
My god, it's full of stars!


Http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/4467

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 20:44:01 -0500
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@fastlane.net>
Subject: MT Ship Design Errata

Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the MT ship design errata.  I am
just about finished with my new MT starship design spreadsheet, and I would
like to make sure that it is correct.

Also, I asked before, but never did get an answer beyond on the Trav CD.
Where can I get a copy of the Dean Files?

I do not have the Traveller CD, and beyond mention that it exists, everyone
seems to be in a conspiracy of silence on how to order said disk.  I have
seen several posts inquiring about the disk, but never an answer.

Jimmy Simpson
	nimrodd@fastlane.net
"Cannot say.
 Saying, I would know.
 Do not know.
 So cannot say."
		-Zathras (Babylon 5)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 20:49:13 -0500
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@fastlane.net>
Subject: Re: Vilani / Solomani

At 03:44 PM 7/22/1998 -0700, Brannon "Ben" Boren wrote:
>
>I can't seem to find anything on my T4 book about this.
>
>What are the detectable differences between Vilani and Solomani? What book
>would have fuller writeups?
>
>Ben
>
>--
>Brannon "Ben" Boren
>http://www.mog.net/brannonb/index.html
> 

In T4, none.  In MT, Vilani & Vargr, and Solomani & Aslan by Digest Group,
and Alien Module 6: Solomani by GDW.  I have seen all of these available in
auctions, but the DGP items are usually starting at $25 to $30 , while AM6
is usually in the $10 to $15 range for starters.

Jimmy Simpson
	nimrodd@fastlane.net
"Cannot say.
 Saying, I would know.
 Do not know.
 So cannot say."
		-Zathras (Babylon 5)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 18:58:00 +0000
From: edjs@bitslayer.net
Subject: Re: Vilani / Solomani

> Date:          Wed, 22 Jul 1998 15:44:07 -0700 (PDT)
> From:          Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
> 
> What are the detectable differences between Vilani and Solomani?

For biological Vilani, very little.  They tend to be dark skinned (light 
brown; sometimes dark brown to black) and haired (dark brown to black).  Eye 
colour is gray to gold.  And they live a long time.  I picture them as looking 
something like Indians, and are not different enough to be distinguishable from 
the many races of Solomani.  Plus the extensive interbreeding over the last 
3000 years has blurred what distinctions there are.  Only with genetic testing 
can you be sure.

Remember, though, that Vilani is also a cultural designation, and not all 
cultural Vilani are biological Vilani, and vice versa. 

> What book would have fuller writeups?

DGP's Vilani & Vargr ("Cogs & Dogs") has the fullest writeup.


- --
Edward Swatschek
edjs@bitslayer.net - edjs@mindlink.net - ICQ 2684960
http://home.mindlink.net/edjs/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 19:52:16 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Mobile Starports

>From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
>Subject: Mobile Starports
...
>A wild adventure hook would be to have a Class C/D mobile
>starport on a low TL world attacked by pirates...in a 3-master
>flying the Jolly Roger! Of course, any such galleon would become
>toasted (literally!) by even a Scoutship mounting a laser but
>how about taking on something like a Missouri-class
>battleship?
>
>Or having to hunt down and stop the Red October from sinking the
>starport?

  It might not be that uneven a struggle in either case, as such a
facility should have the compartmentalization (if not the armour)
of a Floating Fortress (tm) just to prevent some idiot water landing
a Courier top to bottom _through_ the docks. And if workshops etc.
require onboard power, then they might as well have laser turrets
installed to use it.

  A good model for such a port can be found in Michael Scott Rohans'
"Run to the Stars".

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 20:42:56 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Why Milspec ships have so many crew members...

At 12:00 am 7/22/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Of course if you are a true cynic you will assume that military
ships
>have lower degrees of automation than is adviseable because lower
>automation means your navy needs more crew in it.  More crew need
more

	Actually, if you're a true realist, you'll assume that military
ships have lower degrees of automation than merchants on purpose. Not
necessarily to provide more slots for officers, though. Extra crew
provide damage control. They're more flexible--you can grab a gunner
and make him fight fires; you can't grab an automated targetting
system and do the same. And frankly, there's more busy work in a
low-automation system, which means people ARE kept busy. Old cliches
about idle fingers and the devil's tool aside, you have to keep
people busy or they'll get bored, go stale, find things to do ...
Bored, idle troops have *always* been known to be discipline problems.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 20:44:46 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Mobile Starports

At 08:31 am 7/22/98 -0500, you wrote:
>This morning, abc.com posted another interesting story with
Traveller
>ramifications.
>
>Earlier this month, a Russion nuclear sub was used to launch the 
>German satellite TUBSAT from beneath the Barents Sea. This
>gave me the idea of having the starport(s) on some water worlds
>(or any world with a large fluid surface area) actually be *mobile*
>platforms. By mobile, I mean they actually move about the fluid
>surface over time, shifting locations in response to weather 
>patterns, etc.
>
	Been there, done that. Do a search on (I believe) SeaSat. It's a
Boeing-Russian consortium that's refitted an oil rig as a launch
platform, and a ship as a combination launch control/storage/
build-up ship.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 19:50:37 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re TNE Trading Rules

>Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 22:53:38 +0100
>From: "Paul James" <paul@turing.tcp.co.uk>
>Subject: Trading rules for TNE
>
>Now I must admit I haven't been using the trading rules long (read for about
>4 trips) but it does seem very hard to find any sort of decent trade route
>in the RC area. Is there a better set of trading rules (or a howto for the
>existing rules).
>
>Cheers
>
>Paul

Yes, paul, there is: CT's _Book 7: Merchant Prince_.

(Sorry, couldn't resist). Actually, it is the same system as Bk 7 and Mega
Traveller (it is in the MT Ref's Manual). THe wordings are slightly
different in each, and Bk 7 seems easiest to understand.

Howto:
Basically, the idea is that you buy a "Generic Cargo" at a base price per
ton, then sell it elsewhere at a different base, modified by differences in
world types, alligience, and TL.

Freight is different: you roll for number of lots of given categories, then
roll for size of each lot (what is rolled is determined by category: Major,
Minor, incedental). Then, you may roll what the containers contain based
upon the world type they are from, if you feel like it. If the PC's take
it, they get Cr1000 per ton.

There is a better system. Bk 2 had a totally different system for
generating cargo. Somebody on the list has done a system for generating
table much like Bk2 tables FOR EACH WORLD. Find a computerized version. It
saves a LOT of rolls.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 19:35:17 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re Mobile Spaceports

>Obviously, standard landing transponders are critical and water
>landings are much easier with thrust plates than with HePlar and
>gas-based attitude thrusters but what other issues need to be
>addressed to make an "open sea" star/spaceport workable?

aquatic ports have one BIG advantage for newtonian drive craft: the water
to soak up the heat is essentially FREE. (Most of the low level "Plume"
from Saturn and Shuttle launches is the water in the pit under the engines,
placed there to vaporize rather than allow the heat from the engines to
melt the launchpad/crawler.) Landing Pads which sit a meter or two below
water line would allow HEPlaR ships to do thrust landings... on
instruments. Just increase the flotation once the thing touches and shuts
off drives (hopefully slowly enough to prevent water crashing into the hull
and causing metal fatigue/failure on the hull).

>Wouldn't such a platform need to remain out at sea rather than
>close to shore to minimize the wave effects from earthquakes,
>tsunamis, undersea volcanic eruptions, etc?
>
Maybe. Or maybe on stilts, like the "Semi-mobile" platform some
scandivavian country has for drilling... towable (stilts and all), but not
self-mobile. I'd suggest several separate sections rather than one big one;
a crash is less catastrophic that way.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 19:57:03 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re Humaniti Differences

The old Alien Modules and the MT Alien Modules referenced blood type
distribution differences amonst Solomani, Vilani, and Zhodani. And one can
assume amongst the Human Minors Racces as well. Also, differences in number
of teeth (abscence or presence of wisdom teeth).

On a side note: Number of teeth is apparently a fairly common mutation &/or
teratogenesis. I know at least a dozen people with 1 or more extras, most
having had them surgically removed, myself included (1 extra upper Right
Canine, above/outside the one in line with the rest of my teeth). The one
person I know who didn't have wisdom teeth is the only one I know of who
had FEWER than normal; he was in his thirties, and had never even developed
buds for them. We had the same orthodontist or dentist, I don't recall
which.)

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 19:28:08 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re Mixed Tech Ships

>The journalist brought up a good point that Morse code can be sent
>and understood under conditions that would absolutely trash voice
>transmissions. Has anyone deliberately built low-TL systems into
>ship designs as a backup for hi-TL system failures. If so, what
>are the advantages?
>
Under the MT rules, control requirement is figured on price (table entry)
and TL, and depending upon the referee's tolerances for min/maxing, could
be figured item by item. Higher tech requires more control points.

In any case, the benefit is most noteable in case of failures: parts for a
TL 8 radiocomm will be available at almost any TL8-10 world, and generally
can be "Field Equivalent" replaced at higher TL's. (They take their off the
shelf stuff, and wire it up to provide the needed function. Usually, this
can be done with space to spare... I know an ET/Ham Operator/Comm Tech who
used TL 7 hand-assembled assemblies to replace the tubes on his VDist
RadioComm-6 {Mass, volume, and ranges matched up pretty well...}; he simply
replaced tubes with tube bases with semiconductors of equivalent voltage
capability connected to the correct pinouts.)

One key case is TL6 vs TL7-8: Vacuum Tubes vs Semiconductors.
_From_what_I've_ _read_, vaccum tubes are no more resistant to shutting
down from EMP than semiconductors of same function, but are able to be
reset and function after an EMP shutdown. Thus a TL 6 craft will recover
from in (FWIR) around 15 to 30 minutes, whereas a TL 7 or 8 craft will take
much longer.

Another case is that simple damage resistance. Under FF&S1 and MT, damage
resistance (in terms of hits which can be taken) is a function of size. The
larger Low TL version is able to absorb more damage. So, take for example
ENIAC and your 286: Your 286 is 1/1000th the size, and 10 times the ability
(or more). However, a .22 LR is likely to cause fatal damage to your 286.
ENIAC, however, is likely to simply lose 1 or 2 tubes, which can be
replaced soon. Yes, this is an extreme example, but illustrates the point.

Mechanical Computing is another sideline for low-mid tech. The BB New
Jersey used a large mechanical computer to do fireing solutions. While any
286 or M68K could do it just as fast, they could not do it if the power
went out. A friend who served aboard the Jersey said there WERE emergency
hand cranks for the Firing Computer...

In one campaign, a player asked to have a mechanical Jump/Navigation
computer. I allowed him to build a TL12, dedicated system, massing double
that of a non-dedicated Model 1... with a hand crank, just in case. He did
use it, successfully, after a bad combat. He'd no PP, but did have a
working JDrive, and needed out quickly... so he cranked the machine
(several increasing difficulty endurance rolls) while the navigator ploted
the course. He jumped, all right... and even on target. The PC also was too
tired to make the PP Repairs until the next evening... so everyone had to
sleep with Oxygen masks and thermal bags.

Dedicated Mechanical computing first appeared around TL1... with such
things as astrolabes. A mechanical clock or watch is a (Very limited,
analog) dedicated computing device, calulating with addition (counting) and
Division (by gearing), and in some cases checking against a stored value
(alarms and hour chimes). Orerrys (sp???) were astronomical computers,
built origionally around TL4, IIRC.

One side effect (with both advantage and limitation) is that different TL
controls might make certain machines less subject to theft... For example,
how many persons could even get a model T ford down the road??? Many moder
persons would even think to look for the starter crank, and would be
baffled by the spark and gas levers oon the collumn. Under MT, if the PC
was from a lower Tech Band than the device, he took one difficulty level
per BAND (most bands are 2-4 TL's wide); if from a higher Band, he took a 1
difficulty level penalty. Both penalties could be "Worked off" but no
mechanic for doing this was presented. I figured 28 uses per level of
skill....

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 23:52:56 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Detailed system generators 

> I am looking for a program that generates detailed systems and allows them to
> be printed out.

I wouldn't mind one that detailed a system & dumped it into a file, and was fed from either a TravTools or a Galactic format.

DOS or Linux, please.  <grin>

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:00:45
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #671

>Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 20:48:14 -0700
>From: Brad Urwiller <ravyn@ptw.com>
>Subject: Trav Chat
>
>Just how does one get onto the undernet?  I'd love to log onto a chat
session but I haven't a clue how to do it.
>
>Brad
>ravyn@ptw.com
>

First of all, you need an IRC chat program ... if you are a windows user, I
reccomend Mirc. If use Macs, then I'm not sure, and if you use a Unix shell
then use irc-II.

Then go to your server list, and select an undernet server.

>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 23:54:33 EDT
>From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
>Subject: Re: Uakye Transport Partners
>
>Dear Mr. Whitchurch;
>
>I noticed you mentioned that the line uses Knorbes as a refueling point. I
>vaguely remember that it is red zoned because it is where the black globes
>came from. This makes for some interesting adventure nuggets....

I dont think it's red zoned ... if it is, then UTP is goanna have to
negotiate with the Imperial Authorities to get permission to refuel in the
system. I'd say this should be doable - Knorbes is slap bang in the middle
of the jump-3 route between Regina (the subsector capital) and Efate (the
most economically important world in the subsector).

If it isnt, then I'm goanna have to rejig the route ... I dont think a
Recollet can pull a jump-3 and carry any sort of passenger contingent - a
richer route can get away with a dedicated courier to 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:08:16
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: re : Trade

>From: trisen@postmaster.co.uk
>Subject: TNE (or economics) question
>
>I am trying to build an economic model for a  TL12/13  balkanised
>world based on the "Colonial Economics" chapter of  World Tamer's
>Handbook (TNE) and have run into a stumbling block.
>
>Both the road network table and the vehicle table on p33 only  go
>as far as TL8.  I know roads aren't replaced by gravetics at  TL8
>(fused roads are available at TL12+).
>

For what it's worth, my TL6/9 'Gosling' class air/raft (more like
air/truck) has about the same capability as a articulated petrol tanker.
The Gosling is pretty cheap and lo-tech, so I'd guess it would out-compete
ground transport fairly effectivly, even if it needed occasional imported
spare parts.

There is a lot of fixed capital tied up in road networks, so I'd say as
soon as contra-gravity is around, road networks would start to decline
rapidly.

>From: "Paul James" <paul@turing.tcp.co.uk>
>Subject: Trading rules for TNE
>
>Now I must admit I haven't been using the trading rules long (read for about
>4 trips) but it does seem very hard to find any sort of decent trade route
>in the RC area. Is there a better set of trading rules (or a howto for the
>existing rules).

My quick and dirty fixes are ...

1) Allow a skill roll against Trader to find cargos that get a TL of *
(i.e. no TL source/market mods). This means you can find exports for a TL-5
world to go to a TL-11 world, to match the high-tech goods going the other
way.

2) Allow a skill roll against Broker to find 'High Value cargos' - one with
a much higher base price. This makes by-volume transport costs a much lower
percentage of value, thus allowing more trade to be profitable.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 21:38:42 +0100
From: Zeb Fisher <zeb@pacbell.net>
Subject: TNE Combat

Hello,

After many years of not playing, a small group formed here where I live
and started with T4 rules...however an unfixable dispute happened
between our new ref and us the players so he left. I've decided to take
up the spot since I ran MT about 11 or 12 years ago, gods has it been
that long, and took a look at the T4 rules and then at the T4 errata and
wondered why they just don't publish a book for $30 called Traveller T4
Errata!

Anyway, I've decided to use the TNE rules....and running through the
combat system I began trying to figure out why a modern day 9mm pistol
with a Pen rating of Nil can't punch through TL2 Plate Mail. Not only
that, but a Laser does no better. Unless I've completely interpreted the
rules wrong.....

So, I'm wondering has anyone played around with the Pen ratings with any
success or failures? I was considering giving Lasers a Pen rating of .5
and then putting in Reflec with an armor value of 4 to 8 vs lasers
only....or something along those lines, that would mean there would
atleast be one other kind of weapon that could penetrate through Battle
Dress if it had no Reflec...or Alabative hehehehe!

Zeb

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 21:03:51 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Traveller GEEZER Club...

From:           	"Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
To:             	<traveller@MPGN.COM>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Legate Legion <legate@futureone.com>

> >I'm 27 yo & have been playing Traveller for 19 years.  So does that make me
> >an old Traveller Geezer?

> A mere child! Why my son is only three years younger and has played almost
> as long! Quick someone chase him back to his crib! (swinging a zero-gee jump
> cane while everyone in the room ducks!)
> Drat this upstart youngsters... always interrupting my nap! Nurse could you
> fluff my pillow again, please!

Well I've been playing for 20 years and I've just got out of hospital for a hernia 
repair. Does that qualify?

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 21:15:20 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: 11 hours and counting

Date sent:      	Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:43:17 -0600
From:           	Loren Wiseman <lkw@io.com>

> GURPS Traveller goes to press in about 11 hours. It is going to be a long
> day, just like yesterday.

> Softback: 176 pages, stock number 6600, US$26.95. ISBN 1-55634-349-3
> If all goes well, we should ship in late August.

> Hardback: Available a few weeks after the softback.  176 pages, stock
> number 6602, US$TBA. ISBN 1-55634-356-6

> More news when my brain stops throbbing.

So can us TNS addicts expect a new fix anytime soon?

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #680
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Thursday, July 23 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 681



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Impressively Durable Aliens
Re: Re AntiGravity
Re: Re: Re AntiGravity
Re: Mobile Starports
Re: Re Mixed Tech Ships
Re: Re Mobile Spaceports
Re: Traveller GEEZER Club...
Fw: MorrowProject: space station
Re: Pictures of Strephon
Re: Vilani / Solomani
RE: Re AntiGravity
Re: Re AntiGravity
Re: Mobile Starports
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #680

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 01:25:21 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Impressively Durable Aliens

In mail you write:

> Well, think about it a minute...the thing is already walking around
> in body armor, no lungs, three-and-a-half neurons for a nervous
> system... not much _to_ break there ;-)

> Seriously, most smaller critters manage the pressure differential
> well, it's all a matter of surface:volume ratio; as that number goes
> down, you have more trouble dealing with pressure changes, because
> the dissolved gases can't diffuse out of your body quickly enough. In
> fact, the thing that usually kills them is not the pressure
> differential, but the temperature one...most very-deep sea creatures
> are built for very cold water. These crabs are able to handle wide
> temperature diffs.

<snip>

> But isn't it astonishing where life flourishes? (Witness, the crabs
> only get _close_ to the vent, but they're feeding on stuff that
> _lives_ in the vent!)

And this makes a great model for throwing surprise lifeforms at
players. Simple, not very bright critters can be a *major* hazard
because they are too dumb to know better, and tough enough to get into
*very* inconvenient places before dieing.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 01:29:46 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re AntiGravity

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
> ...
>> Well, anti-gravity in *general* doesnn't break any laws. Heck, I canm
>> draw you up plans for a unit that even eminent physicists would agree
>> will work. It's just that you'll have to dig up a supply of "neutronium
>> dust" or some other similarly dense dust or fluid to make it work. :-)
>
> Please do, or at least describe it.  I think that would be very
> interesting.

Well, for a *good* description, pick up a copy of "Indistinguishable
from Magic" by Dr. Robert Forward. 

Here's a crude description. 

You start with a toroidal coil (ie the sort of coil you'd get by
wrapping wire around a donut by going *into* hole while winding) of
piping. You "pump" the dense fluid through the piping. As it
accelerates, it generates gravity-like forces in the direction of its
motion. So if the pipes come *up* throught the center and back *down*
on the outside, an object sitting in the center will be thrown upwards
with great force, but anyone inside wouldn't feel a thing. 

That's just one of several designs. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 01:35:34 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re: Re AntiGravity

In mail you write:

> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>> "Remember" the uproar the Michaelson-Morely experiment caused? It broke
>> a lot of laws too.
>
> You may be old, Leonard, but are you really old enough to remember 
> when the Michaelson-Morely experiment happened? Really. 

Hey, I *did* put "remember" in quotes!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 01:36:42 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Mobile Starports

In mail you write:

> This morning, abc.com posted another interesting story with Traveller
> ramifications.
>
> Earlier this month, a Russion nuclear sub was used to launch the 
> German satellite TUBSAT from beneath the Barents Sea. This
> gave me the idea of having the starport(s) on some water worlds
> (or any world with a large fluid surface area) actually be *mobile*
> platforms. By mobile, I mean they actually move about the fluid
> surface over time, shifting locations in response to weather 
> patterns, etc.
>
> Obviously, standard landing transponders are critical and water
> landings are much easier with thrust plates than with HePlar and
> gas-based attitude thrusters but what other issues need to be 
> addressed to make an "open sea" star/spaceport workable?

Well, actually the reaction drives won't have *that* much of a problem,
but you would want to maintain a flat, stable, *solid* surface for
ships that weren't designed with water landings in mind.

> Wouldn't such a platform need to remain out at sea rather than
> close to shore to minimize the wave effects from earthquakes,
> tsunamis, undersea volcanic eruptions, etc?

The dangers from storms out at sea are as bad as near shore. Sure, near
shore you run the risk of being driven up into the shore. But at the
same time you can use islands or peninsulas to shield you from the
storm. 

A port anchored to the bottom on a continental shelf the way oil rigs
are would be better than a free floating port. The "legs" brace you
against storms and other things. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 01:48:33 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re Mixed Tech Ships

In mail you write:

> One key case is TL6 vs TL7-8: Vacuum Tubes vs Semiconductors.
> _From_what_I've_ _read_, vaccum tubes are no more resistant to shutting
> down from EMP than semiconductors of same function, but are able to be
> reset and function after an EMP shutdown. Thus a TL 6 craft will recover
> from in (FWIR) around 15 to 30 minutes, whereas a TL 7 or 8 craft will take
> much longer.

It work's like this. The induced voltages from the EMP simply arc over
inside the tubes, and the tube is operating again in *seconds*.
Semiconductor junctions are essentially tiny capacitors and the arcover
destroys them. 

That's why the US military developed what is likely the height of
"tube" design. TIMMs (Thermally Integrated Micro Modules). 

These have tubes the size of a *dime* consisting of a central anode (a
dot of metal), one or more grids (essentially some vertical wires
spaced in a circle around the anode), and the cathode (a metal ring
surrounding all the above). They are capped on the top & bottom with
ceramic, with wires running thru to make the connections. No filaments,
the cathode has a coating that helps it emit electrons at lower
temperatures and the entire tube (actually the entire *module) is
heated!

Capacitors are made of ceramics and metal. Ditto for inductors and
resistors. All the metals used are high melting point alloys. And the
modules are designed in three dimensions. So they are essentially a
solid block of ceramic and metal, with the only spaces being in the
capacitors and tubes. 

The modules are placed in what amounts to an *oven*. And it's well
insulated so it doesn't take a lot of power to keep it hot enough for
the TIMMs to be happy.

They got part densities as good as the most densely packed pre-IC
semiconductor units *plus* being effectively immune to EMP. 

They were in use in the 60s. I don't know when they went out of
service. 

Actually, this is a technology that *should* be presrrved. It'd be
*perfect* for things like Venus Landers. The surface temp on Venus is
"just right" for this sort of thing. Kepping out the atmosphere is a
problem, but it'd be a problem for *anything* we send.

And in Traveller, this sort of thing (if it's still known) would likely
be used for a number of purposes. It's well suited to high temp and
high radiation environments, so it may be found in reactor and drive
control systems. And it'd be used on those planets too close to the
star to be in the habitable zone, but worth exploiting for one reason
or another.

Heck, put a couple of system defense installations on a Mercury type
world. Solar power is *really* powerful there, and the installation
could shrug off a lot of normally fatal attacks. After all, if your
laser beam dumps in a few megajoules and the sun is dumping in a
gigajoule or two, they may barely notice. :-)

> larger Low TL version is able to absorb more damage. So, take for example
> ENIAC and your 286: Your 286 is 1/1000th the size, and 10 times the ability
> (or more). However, a .22 LR is likely to cause fatal damage to your 286.
> ENIAC, however, is likely to simply lose 1 or 2 tubes, which can be
> replaced soon. Yes, this is an extreme example, but illustrates the point.

Actually, Eniac was about as bright as an *old* programmable
calculator. I've got an old 8-bit notebook. 8085 CPU, 32k of RAM. The
*mainframe* I used at PCC was mid 60s vintage and only had 32k of RAM
as the *max* it could have. I don't think it had the max. My *modem*
has a bigger CPU than that old notebook (heck, I've got one modem that
uses a 68000!)

> Mechanical Computing is another sideline for low-mid tech. The BB New
> Jersey used a large mechanical computer to do fireing solutions. While any
> 286 or M68K could do it just as fast, they could not do it if the power
> went out. A friend who served aboard the Jersey said there WERE emergency
> hand cranks for the Firing Computer...

It was also an *analog* computer. Analog computers can be superior to
digital computers in a lot of situations.

> In one campaign, a player asked to have a mechanical Jump/Navigation
> computer. I allowed him to build a TL12, dedicated system, massing double
> that of a non-dedicated Model 1... with a hand crank, just in case. He did
> use it, successfully, after a bad combat. He'd no PP, but did have a
> working JDrive, and needed out quickly... so he cranked the machine
> (several increasing difficulty endurance rolls) while the navigator ploted
> the course. He jumped, all right... and even on target. The PC also was too
> tired to make the PP Repairs until the next evening... so everyone had to
> sleep with Oxygen masks and thermal bags.

Bravo!


> Dedicated Mechanical computing first appeared around TL1... with such
> things as astrolabes. A mechanical clock or watch is a (Very limited,
> analog) dedicated computing device, calulating with addition (counting) and
> Division (by gearing), and in some cases checking against a stored value
> (alarms and hour chimes). Orerrys (sp???) were astronomical computers,
> built origionally around TL4, IIRC.

Slide rules are mechanical *analog* calculators. Another such is a
gizmo called a "nomogram". It's essentially a chart with different
scales across the bottom and sides. You lay a straightedge between
numbers on the side and the bottom and where they cross a line on the
chart (possibly even a curve!) is the answer. They got used a lot for
time/speed/distance type calculations before calculators. 

Hmmm. It just occured to me that a lot of tables in the various design
sequences might be a lot easier to use as nomograms!

Anyway, you should be able to do a fair amount of real space navigation
using a "sextant"/telescope combo, a circular slide rule with some
special scales, a few reference works, and some nomograms set up for
the purpose.

As an example, a nomogram would have a side scale labeled "angular
diameter" and a bottom scale reading "planetary diameter". You'd
measure the planet's angular diameter with the scope, look up the
actual diameter, lay your straightedge across the appropriate points on
the two scales, and read your distance from the planet from the chart. 

Simple, quick and easy. Especially since the chart would likely be a
"disposable" item like the old "plotting board" templates I've got. So
you could mark the planets diameter with a red pen or something on the
one scale and that'd be one less thing to look up when you make the
next sighting.

BTW, you may have noted from the above the main feature of analog
computers. They give quick, *approximate* answers. But often
"approximate" is good enough. For example, those mechanical fire
control computers on the New Jersey got the first round close enough
that it required only a minor adjustment to get the other eight rounds
on target. 

> One side effect (with both advantage and limitation) is that different TL
> controls might make certain machines less subject to theft... For example,
> how many persons could even get a model T ford down the road??? Many moder
> persons would even think to look for the starter crank, and would be
> baffled by the spark and gas levers oon the collumn.

And even if you know about the spark and gas settings, the odds are
rather strong that you'll *not* drive the car away. Instead you'll be
sitting there with a broken thumb! You see, the engine tended to kick
the crank *backwards* rather forcefully when it finally started. If you
were holding the crank in the "normal" manner this would likely break
your thumb. The *correct* way to do it has you placing your thum
alongside your fingers. That way the worst that would happen is that
the crank would jump out of your grasp and bash your knuckles a little.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 02:28:18 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re Mobile Spaceports

In mail you write:

>>Obviously, standard landing transponders are critical and water
>>landings are much easier with thrust plates than with HePlar and
>>gas-based attitude thrusters but what other issues need to be
>>addressed to make an "open sea" star/spaceport workable?
>
> aquatic ports have one BIG advantage for newtonian drive craft: the water
> to soak up the heat is essentially FREE. (Most of the low level "Plume"
> from Saturn and Shuttle launches is the water in the pit under the engines,
> placed there to vaporize rather than allow the heat from the engines to
> melt the launchpad/crawler.) Landing Pads which sit a meter or two below
> water line would allow HEPlaR ships to do thrust landings... on
> instruments. Just increase the flotation once the thing touches and shuts
> off drives (hopefully slowly enough to prevent water crashing into the hull
> and causing metal fatigue/failure on the hull).
>
>>Wouldn't such a platform need to remain out at sea rather than
>>close to shore to minimize the wave effects from earthquakes,
>>tsunamis, undersea volcanic eruptions, etc?
>>
> Maybe. Or maybe on stilts, like the "Semi-mobile" platform some
> scandivavian country has for drilling... towable (stilts and all), but not
> self-mobile. I'd suggest several separate sections rather than one big one;
> a crash is less catastrophic that way.

Best bet is a series of "platforms" supporting landing pads in the area
between them. Simplest case would be three platforms supporting a
runway and some landing "pits":


                         +--+
                         |  |
                         +--+
                        /  *  \
                      /  *   *  \
                    /  *   *   *  \
                  /=================\
                /   *  *  *  *  *  *  \
            +--+-----------------------+--+
            |  |                       |  |
            +--+                       +--+
 
= <- runway
* <- blast pit

Have the "field" supported by floats with something to buffer the wave
action (which can be used to generate power). And if there's a storm
coming, ships are all launched, and enough floats flooded to allow
"sinking" the platform to below the wave zone (say 30-60 meters down).

There'd be cargo transfer docks along the outside.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 04:17:15 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller GEEZER Club...

> From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
> > >I'm 27 yo & have been playing Traveller for 19 years.  So does that
make me
> > >an old Traveller Geezer?
> > A mere child! Why my son is only three years younger and has played
almost
> > as long! Quick someone chase him back to his crib! (swinging a zero-gee
jump
> > cane while everyone in the room ducks!)
> > Drat this upstart youngsters... always interrupting my nap! Nurse could
you
> > fluff my pillow again, please!
> 
> Well I've been playing for 20 years and I've just got out of hospital for
a hernia 
> repair. Does that qualify?

If my 19 years & cancer does not, your 20 year & a hernia surely will not.

> Andrew etc.

I have a question here, but what TL would Mecha be?  What TL would
BattleMechs be?  I have a player who whats to create the VF-1 from Macross
& use it as a fighter.  Just wondering what the Old Geezers would say...

Legate Legion, Militant Jewish Terrorist
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"The system does not matter, its ROLE-Playing that matters." - Me to
Acid_Blue, Chuckles, & Rob the Lumberjackman.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 04:23:49 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Fw: MorrowProject: space station

> For all you people planing a MP space program check this out.
>
http://www.discovery.com/ex/ad/newsletter/indep/newsfeatures/transhab/transh
ab.html
> 
> The technology might have uses far beyond space travel.
> Underwater bases and hospitals in areas hit by Chemical or
> biological weapons
> Alan

Got this off another ML & thought you might like to see this.  It is really
cool.  An inflatable spacecraft.

Legate Legion, Militant Jewish Terrorist
Cult 'O Gabe's Holy Avenger in charge of Military Afairs
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"The system does not matter, its ROLE-Playing that matters." - Me to
Acid_Blue, Chuckles, & Rob the Lumberjackman.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:36:27 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: Pictures of Strephon

On Mon, 20 Jul 1998, Erwin Fritz wrote:

> > The MegaTraveller Adventure 'Arrival: Vengeance' featured the best drawn
> > portraits of each of Norris, Strephon, Horvath, Margaret and Kuligaan.
> > I scanned them for own purposes, but I could put them on my website - if
> > someone else want them ...
> 
> Those would make nice additions to my library manual, if you'd be so kind ...

Done so. You can visit a new VIP page at my website at
http://www.uni-koeln.de/Ancients (now member of the webring.)
There will be some other changes to it the next time.

I also got 300 dpi print scans of the portraits, but did not link to them.
You can load them by adressing them directly with 'name.gif' at the page,
but be careful, they're somewhat bigger (zoom factor x5)

Another addition can be found on the Software Page: I added (finally!)
.eps versions of the logos. There's only one .gif left, which also can be
looked at on the page.

Hope this will help and be taken fancy for.

I will also try to complete my TNS archive by the weekend, it then has got
all the articles from 1105 to 1130. And I'll work out an alternate
GURPS-Timeline file. (Finally it is out, yeah! But I'll have to wait a
month or so until my FLGS finds another distibutor in America - yeargh!)

I hope that my other projects come along too in the near future.

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:14:23 +0100 (BST)
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Vilani / Solomani

>DGP's Vilani & Vargr ("Cogs & Dogs") has the fullest writeup.

and I thought it was "Traders and Raiders", here I go wrong again ...

	Ewan Quibell
	Data Communications Technician        The Game's afoot:
	Computer Centre                       Follow your spirit, and apon
	University of Brighton                  this charge
                                              Cry 'God for Harry, England,
	E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              and Saint George !'

                                                    Henry V 3:1
	#include<stddisclamer.h>                    W. Shakespeare

	My spelling is entierly due to dyslexia, typoes and poetic license

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 14:20:30 +0200
From: Christian Gotschi <ChristianG@vircom.co.za>
Subject: RE: Re AntiGravity

This does not sound like anti-gravity to me.
(well ok, you could call it that, but then you had start calling 'legs'
a anti-gravity device)


> -----Original Message-----
> From:	shadow@krypton.rain.com [SMTP:shadow@krypton.rain.com]
> Sent:	Thursday, July 23, 1998 11:30 AM
> To:	traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject:	Re: Re AntiGravity
> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> > Leonard Erickson wrote:
> > ...
> >> Well, anti-gravity in *general* doesnn't break any laws. Heck, I
> canm
> >> draw you up plans for a unit that even eminent physicists would
> agree
> >> will work. It's just that you'll have to dig up a supply of
> "neutronium
> >> dust" or some other similarly dense dust or fluid to make it work.
> :-)
> >
> > Please do, or at least describe it.  I think that would be very
> > interesting.
> 
> Well, for a *good* description, pick up a copy of "Indistinguishable
> from Magic" by Dr. Robert Forward. 
> 
> Here's a crude description. 
> 
> You start with a toroidal coil (ie the sort of coil you'd get by
> wrapping wire around a donut by going *into* hole while winding) of
> piping. You "pump" the dense fluid through the piping. As it
> accelerates, it generates gravity-like forces in the direction of its
> motion. So if the pipes come *up* throught the center and back *down*
> on the outside, an object sitting in the center will be thrown upwards
> with great force, but anyone inside wouldn't feel a thing. 
> 
> That's just one of several designs. 
> 
> -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 08:41:41 -0400
From: Joseph Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Re AntiGravity

>



> > You start with a toroidal coil (ie the sort of coil you'd get by
> > wrapping wire around a donut by going *into* hole while winding) of
> > piping. You "pump" the dense fluid through the piping. As it
> > accelerates, it generates gravity-like forces in the direction of its
> > motion. So if the pipes come *up* throught the center and back *down*
> > on the outside, an object sitting in the center will be thrown upwards
> > with great force, but anyone inside wouldn't feel a thing.
> >

Pumping high gravity fluid through the torroid won't do that since the
torroid would presumably be filled with this fluid.

A slight variant would be a series of dumbells that pivot at the center.
The ends of the dumbells would be gravity dense and would offset their own
weight.  Arrange these in a circle around your launch platform.  Now you
rotate all of these.  Since gravity drops off with the square of distance,
the pull from the near weights is greater than the far weights thus
producing a net acceleration.  Of course this only produces pulses of
reduced gravity and it would be much more efficient to throw the object
using physical contact.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 09:18:14 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Mobile Starports

>In mail you write:
[snip]
>>This
>> gave me the idea of having the starport(s) on some water worlds
>> (or any world with a large fluid surface area) actually be *mobile*
>> platforms. By mobile, I mean they actually move about the fluid
>> surface over time, shifting locations in response to weather
>> patterns, etc.
[snip]
>Well, actually the reaction drives won't have *that* much of a problem,
>but you would want to maintain a flat, stable, *solid* surface for
>ships that weren't designed with water landings in mind.
>
>> Wouldn't such a platform need to remain out at sea rather than
>> close to shore to minimize the wave effects from earthquakes,
>> tsunamis, undersea volcanic eruptions, etc?
>
>The dangers from storms out at sea are as bad as near shore. Sure, near
>shore you run the risk of being driven up into the shore. But at the
>same time you can use islands or peninsulas to shield you from the
>storm.
>
>A port anchored to the bottom on a continental shelf the way oil rigs
>are would be better than a free floating port. The "legs" brace you
>against storms and other things.
>

The first thing I though of was the submersible platform in (I think) "From
Russia With Love" that the Bad Guy used.  It would surface, a big dome
opened to accept the helocopter landing, then submerged (presumably to hide
it's location?).

A Subersible Starport would have the advantages of mobility - place it
where the weather cooperates, or the glacial ice doesn't reach in winter.
Or perhaps it is above a submerged habitat (as would be typical on a TL10+
water world).  This allows "dry" landings for vessels and brings them to
the city/region served by the 'port without the problems associated with
submerging starships (which should be few anyway, but perhaps we are
optimistic).

In any case it should provide some interesting scenery.  "Your ship
approaches what the radar tells you is a bare patch of ocean.  'Are you
sure this is where the transponder signal is coming from, Harry?' Asks
Selden, officially the Captain.  'For the third time, Yes I'm sure' Says
Harry.  As you begin the final approach procedures water starts to bubble
and froth around the patch of otherwise unremarkable ocean.  A massive set
of four bent legs emerges from the depths, followed by a domed platform.
As the legs extend, raising the platform clear fo the water, the dome's
clamshell doors begin to open, revealing a standard landing grid
'crosshair'.  The guidance beacon signal is suddenly much stronger..."

There may IYTU need to be a reason for raising the landing platform (or
whole starport) above the water.  If Weather doesn't tickle you, recall
that the Earth's own oceans are mildly caustic, and submersion will lead to
even the most durable materials to pit and oxidize due to the salinity.
Imagine, if you will, an ocean with a high sulfur content (leading to a
dilute solution of Sulfuric Acid).  Harmless in short exposures, but
potentially disasterous in a weeks time.

They would also have a high demand for hydrocarbons to make plexiglass and
plastics, or silica for glassmaking.

Pete


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 23:17:47
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #680

>From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
>Subject: Re: Why Milspec ships have so many crew members...
>
>	Actually, if you're a true realist, you'll assume that military
>ships have lower degrees of automation than merchants on purpose. Not
>necessarily to provide more slots for officers, though. Extra crew
>provide damage control. They're more flexible--you can grab a gunner
>and make him fight fires; you can't grab an automated targetting
>system and do the same. 

Dave,

I agree with you on this, but it means we need a combat system that
encourages combat ships to have spare crew.

Crew are pretty volume-intensive, unless you are double-bunking them. On
the other hand, they arent particularily massy, and mass is usually more of
an issue than volume in warships.

>From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
>Subject: Re Mixed Tech Ships
>
>One side effect (with both advantage and limitation) is that different TL
>controls might make certain machines less subject to theft... For example,
>how many persons could even get a model T ford down the road??? Many moder
>persons would even think to look for the starter crank, and would be
>baffled by the spark and gas levers oon the collumn. Under MT, if the PC
>was from a lower Tech Band than the device, he took one difficulty level
>per BAND (most bands are 2-4 TL's wide); if from a higher Band, he took a 1
>difficulty level penalty. Both penalties could be "Worked off" but no
>mechanic for doing this was presented. I figured 28 uses per level of
>skill....

The other major issue is economics. Almost all sea shipping is currently
built at about one, maybe 2, TLs below current 'state of the art'. The
technology that goes into, say, a Kortnaeur frigate just doesnt go into
your average Korean-built cargo ship. If lower tech does the job at a
cheapest price (including maintainence), then it is probably going to be used.

I really need to pull my finger out and post the TL8/11 Far Trader -
everything except the jump drive and t-plates is TL8, which means you can
pay for about half the cost with TL8 credits.

>From: Zeb Fisher <zeb@pacbell.net>
>Subject: TNE Combat
>
>Hello,
>
>Anyway, I've decided to use the TNE rules....and running through the
>combat system I began trying to figure out why a modern day 9mm pistol
>with a Pen rating of Nil can't punch through TL2 Plate Mail. Not only
>that, but a Laser does no better. Unless I've completely interpreted the
>rules wrong.....
>

Well, historically plate armour tended to be 16-18 gauge steel, so I'd be
quite happy with it between me and a 9mm bullet at anything further than,
say, 30 yards.

Very late plate got 'proofed' against musket balls ... fire a musket at 10
yards. If the bullet goes thru, put it in the 'seconds' bin. If not, sell
it at full price.

Of course, less honest armourers heated up a bit of the breastplate and
thumped it with a hammer and claimed it was really proof.

To cut a long story short, IMO 9mm pistol bullets should be stopped by plate. 

Lasers are a different issue - plate was traditionally shiny, which could
well reflect the laser (leave the surcoats at home, lads ... white armour
cap a pie).

>So, I'm wondering has anyone played around with the Pen ratings with any
>success or failures? I was considering giving Lasers a Pen rating of .5
>and then putting in Reflec with an armor value of 4 to 8 vs lasers
>only....or something along those lines, that would mean there would
>atleast be one other kind of weapon that could penetrate through Battle
>Dress if it had no Reflec...or Alabative hehehehe!

One issue I have with Traveller is the way that TL6-7 anti-tank weapons
blow the crap out of battledress. A Boys anti-tank rifle should not be able
to give an Imperial Marine more than a very bad headache.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #681
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Thursday, July 23 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 682



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

MT Ship Design Errata
FF&S Spreadsheet...new version
Re: Pictures of Strephon 
Re: Planetoid ships in TNE
Meson Communications - Used as a weapon?
re: X-Boat Route
Re: AntiGravity
Re: Pictures of Strephon  
Re: MT Ship Design Errata
Mecha and Travller.
Re: X-Boat Route
Timeline update/Race relations
Re: Re AntiGravity
re:Impressively Durable Aliens
Re: Re Humaniti Differences
Re: Timeline update/Race relations
Mail problems
Re: Timeline update/Race relations
re: [TWG] 101 Religions? 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 09:34:54 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: MT Ship Design Errata

>Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the MT ship design errata.  I am
>just about finished with my new MT starship design spreadsheet, and I would
>like to make sure that it is correct.

Sending an RTF file called mterrata.rtf under seperate cover (so as not to
send attachments to the list ya know).

>Also, I asked before, but never did get an answer beyond on the Trav CD.
>Where can I get a copy of the Dean Files?

I'm not sure.  I *have* the files (I believe a complete set).  They used to
be in one of the archive sites, but aren't at either MPGN or Joe Heck's
site.  The files I have are at home (and I at work) so it may take a few
days for me to get them here (Memory problems I fear) but keep bugging me
about it and I'll send them.

I will also send them to the first 50 people who volunteer to put them up
on their Web Site (I think its safe to assume Rob Dean would allow this).

>I do not have the Traveller CD, and beyond mention that it exists, everyone
>seems to be in a conspiracy of silence on how to order said disk.  I have
>seen several posts inquiring about the disk, but never an answer.

The CD is (I believe) not yet available.  Watch this space for more updates.

Pete


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 08:44:36 -0500
From: "Andy Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: FF&S Spreadsheet...new version

A serious bug has been found in my FF&S spreadsheet (thanks to the TravTech
list guys...). Basically, component armor was completely wrong...I misplaced
part of the formula that caused component armor to be MUCH more efficient
than it should have been. Note that previous designs using component armor
are, thus, wrong. Sorry 'bout that.

The new version, 2.8, is now available in the usual place:

http://www.ames.net/igor/traveller

In the FileList section, or the Operations section of either the Frames or
NoFrames site.

As usual, Excel 5.0, Excel 97, and Quattro Pro 8.0 versions are available.

*sigh* Here I was hoping all the bugs had been fixed. Oh well. I apologize
to everyone who has been using the earlier versions...I hope fixing your
designs won't be too difficult. But it's a _very_ complicated spreadsheet,
and mistakes were bound to happen. Hopefully we won't see too many more...


+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                       |
| Home: igor@ames.net - http://www.ames.net/igor/                    |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/                    |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU: tc++(**) ru+ ge 3i+ jt- au+ ls+ kk+ hi+ as+ va+ dr+ so+ zh+  |
|       vi+ da+                                                      |
| Geek: GCS d- s+:+ a- C++ W++ w+++(-)$ PS+ PE t- 5++ X+ R+++ tv+    |
|       b+++ DI+ D-- G e+ h---- r+++ y++++                           |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 10:01:40 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Pictures of Strephon 

> Done so. You can visit a new VIP page at my website at
> http://www.uni-koeln.de/Ancients (now member of the webring.)

I'm getting Error 404's on this page.  What's the URL?

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 09:18:01 -0500
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Planetoid ships in TNE

John Macpherson wrote:

> P.S.  Email me and I'll forward you Steve Bonneville's <sp?> excellent 
> post on stl ships and drives.

Thanks for the praise.  Feel free to pass it around; I wouldn't mind 
hearing any suggestions.  The unformatted, original text is at

 http://www.ima.umn.edu/~bonnevil/traveller/sublight.txt 

The guidelines come straight from using stock QSDS propulsion (the
fusion rocket, HEPlaR, and thrusters) with the relativistic rocket
equation.  A carefully built ship can make it up to ten or twenty
percent of lightspeed at coast without too much trouble; however,
there'll be more fuel by volume than even a jump-6 starship has.

I'd love to see a tech-11 ship that could make the 80% of lightspeed
seen in _Imperium_.  With thrusters, it'd need a mass ratio of 9.
(That is, for every 9 metric tonnes of starship, 8 are fuel and only
1 can be anything else.)  As a comparison, a tech-9 ship using fusion 
rockets (under FF&S1 fuel consumption rates) would need to have a 
mass ratio of 1000 to get the same performance.  Fusion rockets do
fine in the ten to thirty percent of lightspeed range, though.

  -- Steve Bonneville

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 11:19:52 -0400
From: "Scott Spieker" <scspieker@ncweb.com>
Subject: Meson Communications - Used as a weapon?

	I have a funny question.  Now, I'm not a gear head, so this may be a no
brainer to some, but it has been nagging me for the past few minutes. 
Since a meson gun are supposed to be used to move mesons through any
intervening material and set to detonate within it's target - I also assume
that the same is true for meson communications.
	would it then be possible to use your meson communicator to target a
smaller object and have the same detonation effect?  Most meson guns are
spinal or bay mounted, but could the communicator be used with the same
effect but at a much smaller scale?
	A smaller scale you say?  Yeah, something like a human target.  Someone on
a Zero-G space walk who get's a little to close to the sensor and/or
communications array.  Could the mesons - if intentionally set - be
directed at the small target (say maybe the heart or maybe the lungs,
stomach, diaphragm, or even the brain) of a human or other life form.
	I'm not talking using this as a weapon in traveller on a regular basis,
but in a pinch, could a communicator be used in such a fashion???


Thanks,
Scott Spieker

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 10:51:37 -0400
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: re: X-Boat Route

Robert Eaglestone wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
IMTU, an X-Boat route would have to have at least one Xboat tender 
per terminal leg of a route.  This may imply 3 or 4 XBoats minimum
per terminal leg, hence 8 XBoats per leg.

Add to that a fuel shuttle and another tender with 2 scouts 
accompanying it, and you've got a tasty target for corsairs.  So
just for good measure, add an SDB squadron for protection.

Now, with all those people there, and ships rotating on and off
duty, there is bound to be boredom.  So grab an asteroid hulk,
hollow it out and outfit it with minimal thrusters and decent
weapons, and make a planetoid monitor/shore leave base.  Let
merchants or megacorps put their shops, taverns, hotels, and
Zero-G paintball arenas in there, and you have a small starport.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Taverns? Zero-G paintball? What is this, the Scout Service
or a cruise line? <g>

Maybe the Navy coddles their people on-station like that, but
I don't see the Scouts adding on so many frills to every system
where they have a presence.

The multiple tenders, shore leave facilities, shops, taverns, etc.
sound more like a Scout _Base_ to me, or perhaps an X-Boat
Way Station. A Scout Base might rate it's own SDB squadron,
but an X-Boat Tender and a couple of fuel shuttles? They get
their own squadron?

Between Way Stations on an X-Boat Route, the only Scout
presence might be the X-Boat Tender and a couple of type-S
Scout Ships and some Fuel Shuttles. Granted, they'll have 
5 gun turrets to protect themselves with, which may be more
than some corsairs want to tangle with.


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 08:48:59 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: AntiGravity

> > You start with a toroidal coil (ie the sort of coil you'd get by
> > wrapping wire around a donut by going *into* hole while winding) of
> > piping. You "pump" the dense fluid through the piping. As it
> > accelerates, it generates gravity-like forces in the direction of its
> > motion. So if the pipes come *up* throught the center and back *down*
> > on the outside, an object sitting in the center will be thrown upwards
> > with great force, but anyone inside wouldn't feel a thing.
> >
>Pumping high gravity fluid through the torroid won't do that since the
>torroid would presumably be filled with this fluid.

No, it does actually work in a "steady state". In general relativity, 
extremely massive rotating objects have tend to drag objects near them along
with their rotation - "frame dragging". The moving fluid on the inside coils
of the torus will tend to produce a gravitational field near those coils that
will accelerate nearby objects in the same direction the fluid is moving. 
To get a noticeable effect, as Leonard says, you need something as dense as
neutronium, but that's an engineering detail. 

I wouldn't call it antigravity - just clever manipulation of existing
gravity. (Kind of like the fact that you could cancel our Earth's surface
gravity by parking a big neutronium disk right overhead that pulls you up
with an equal force.)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 11:55:31 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Pictures of Strephon  

> Done so. You can visit a new VIP page at my website at
> http://www.uni-koeln.de/Ancients (now member of the webring.)

I'm getting Error 404's on this page.  What's the official URL?

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 08:58:23 -0400
From: "chauncey smith" <Csmith@icdc.com>
Subject: Re: MT Ship Design Errata

Ok Reply to my email address and give me your address and I'll send to you
photo copies of what I have... Kewl?

csmith@ICDC.com

Chauncey Smith AKA drkmage

With out heresay there may never be any change,
With out change there there death....... Dulinor

ITMU: tc tm+ tn++ ?tg tt !to ru ge+ 3i c++ jt- au+ st++ ls pi- ta++ he++
     kk hi+ as va ?dr ith+ ?vr ?ne so zh++ vi+ dr++ sy-
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@fastlane.net>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Wednesday, July 22, 1998 9:43 PM
Subject: MT Ship Design Errata


>Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the MT ship design errata.  I am
>just about finished with my new MT starship design spreadsheet, and I would
>like to make sure that it is correct.
>
>Also, I asked before, but never did get an answer beyond on the Trav CD.
>Where can I get a copy of the Dean Files?
>
>I do not have the Traveller CD, and beyond mention that it exists, everyone
>seems to be in a conspiracy of silence on how to order said disk.  I have
>seen several posts inquiring about the disk, but never an answer.
>
>Jimmy Simpson
> nimrodd@fastlane.net
>"Cannot say.
> Saying, I would know.
> Do not know.
> So cannot say."
> -Zathras (Babylon 5)
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 12:54:08 -0400
From: "chauncey smith" <Csmith@icdc.com>
Subject: Mecha and Travller.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Legate Legion <legate@futureone.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Thursday, July 23, 1998 7:32 AM
Subject: Re: Traveller GEEZER Club...



>
>I have a question here, but what TL would Mecha be?  What TL would
>BattleMechs be?  I have a player who whats to create the VF-1 from Macross
>& use it as a fighter.  Just wondering what the Old Geezers would say...
>
I did that once ... the way I did it was I designed it under the MT rules in
all of its configurations.
then I used a special figure and forget rule of mine.. it takes one action
to change from configuration A to B and from B to C and you have to go
through B to get to C from A and vise versa.

The Rules for walkers are in the books so they are legal. so battle tech
mechs work in system.
the veratech thing is my own creation and yours too.. so it can be any tech
level after that or share the tech level it did in Macross.
also add a couple of credits to the design for the varibleness..

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 10:46:37 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: X-Boat Route

Walter G. Smith wrote:
>
> Taverns? Zero-G paintball? What is this, the Scout Service
> or a cruise line? <g>
> 
> Maybe the Navy coddles their people on-station like that, but
> I don't see the Scouts adding on so many frills to every system
> where they have a presence.
> 

Ok, ok...you have the Scout service, which goes out and actively
_recruits_ your average MacGuyver type.

 Now you're going to stick them off in some backwater with a starship
tender, parts, and _nothing_ to do???

There's _NOTHING_ more dangerous than bored scouts....;-)

They'll have their Zero Gee paintball arena, all right....and it won't
be a pretty sight!





- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 11:03:23 -0700
From: Chad Osborne <strategos@nctimes.net>
Subject: Timeline update/Race relations

Having just returned to the Traveller scene after a 10 year break, I am
trying to put together a campaign.  I need to ask a couple of very basic
questions, and will try to keep it brief.  I would appreciate any help I
can get on either of these issues;

    I.  Is there an updated timeline (post-rebellion) anywhere (online
preferred)?  I can't even seem to determine what the "current" date is,
and this "virus" thing has me baffled.  (I have mostly MT and T4
materials.)

    II.  What are the "current" relations between the major races.  (I'm
only looking for the briefest of answers, e.g. Vargr accepted within the
Imperium, and Humanati accepted within Vargr territories.)  Again, an
online resource would be preferred, but any pointers would be
appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Chad

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 10:31:44 -0400
From: warmind@juno.com (james a clem)
Subject: Re: Re AntiGravity

On Thu, 23 Jul 1998 01:29:46 PST shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard
Erickson) writes:
>
>Well, for a *good* description, pick up a copy of "Indistinguishable
>from Magic" by Dr. Robert Forward. 
>
>Here's a crude description. 
>
>You start with a toroidal coil (ie the sort of coil you'd get by
>wrapping wire around a donut by going *into* hole while winding) of
>piping. You "pump" the dense fluid through the piping. As it
>accelerates, it generates gravity-like forces in the direction of its
>motion. So if the pipes come *up* throught the center and back *down*
>on the outside, an object sitting in the center will be thrown upwards
>with great force, but anyone inside wouldn't feel a thing. 
>
>That's just one of several designs. 

Now don't get me wrong, I like Robert Forward, he's smart guy, but he's a
physicist, not an engineer.  The trouble with such schemes is that they
are assumed to be a system, a control volume for you control system
types, that is assumed to be unrelated to the rest of the universe.  If
such a system is indeed cut off from everything else (ie, in its own
universe, totally alone) then energy is conserved, and it works.  The
problem is, conservation of energy requires 2 things.  

1)  There are no outside forces acting on the control volume.

2)  No work is done within the control volume.

The problem is, there ARE forces acting on the control volume, and it IS
doing work, by accelerating some mass.   Personally, my opinion is that
we might be able to find some way to accelerate masses without tossing
mass out the back of an engine, we still will have to spend some energy
somewhere, and we still won't be able to just circumvent gravity, and we
still can't ignore momentum, so no ships doing 10,000 g accelerations
while we have
tea and cakes.

Anyway, such is my professional opinion.


Jim A. Clem, B.S.E.
CEO and Founder, Diasporan Industries, Inc.
www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081/
Traveller Geek Code tc+ tm !tn tt t4+ ru+() ge++ !3i jt au (+) st ls(+)
pi+ he++ merc++ dt+++
GM:  The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: 23 Jul 1998 14:23 EDT
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: re:Impressively Durable Aliens

John spoke about The Incredible Crabs, and said:

>Make such a thing sentient and you have one damn impressive PC.


Make such a thing sentient and hungry and hostile and you have one 
dangerous foe.  In fact, you might have something like the Chamax Plague.


Rob

IMTU tc+ t4+ ge-() 3i(+) jt a ls+ va- so- zh vi da+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 14:52:42 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re Humaniti Differences

I only had upper wisdom teeth (no buds in my lower jaw). I hope that doesn't
make me a half wit! :-)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 12:18:02 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Timeline update/Race relations

At 11:03 AM 7/23/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Having just returned to the Traveller scene after a 10 year break, I am
>trying to put together a campaign.  I need to ask a couple of very basic
>questions, and will try to keep it brief.  I would appreciate any help I
>can get on either of these issues;
>
>    I.  Is there an updated timeline (post-rebellion) anywhere (online
>preferred)?  I can't even seem to determine what the "current" date is,
>and this "virus" thing has me baffled.  (I have mostly MT and T4
>materials.)

Grin.  There are three different "current timelines.

0-200.  Milieu:0, the offcial setting for Marc Miller's Traveller.
1200.   RC/Regency.  The post-Imperial setting for Traveller TNE.
1120.   An alternate setting for GURPS Traveller where strephon wasn't
assassinated.

Virus was the uber weapon that was supposed towin the Rebellion.  It was
supposdedly an artificially intellegent computer virus with two orders:
infect everything you can reach, then kill humans.  The story had Virus
being released during a major battle, infecting both fleets, and destroying
the Imperium.

This is possibly the single most debated topic here.  Some people take the
"It's a good story, and we can't predict what computers are capable of at
TL16"; while others hold to the "it's bloody stupid, and self-contradictory
in many places" school.

>    II.  What are the "current" relations between the major races.  (I'm
>only looking for the briefest of answers, e.g. Vargr accepted within the
>Imperium, and Humanati accepted within Vargr territories.)  Again, an
>online resource would be preferred, but any pointers would be
>appreciated.

Since the offcial universe has sort of petered out while we waot for Marc
to finish T5, it's really up to you.
- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
jt- au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 15:33:44 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Mail problems

I've been getting this message *EVERY TEN MINUTES*.  Somebody want to tell him 
about this, cause he DAMNED sure ain't listening to *ME*.
- --------
Return-Path: postmaster@albert.nuc.umr.edu 
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>From postmaster Thu Jul 23 13:55 CDT 1998 remote from albert
Report-Version: 2
>To: jamstar@glasscity.net
To: jamstar@glasscity.net
Date: Thu Jul 23 18:55:00 GMT 1998
Original-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 11:55:31 -0400
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>From Unknown Thu Jul 23 13:54 CDT 1998
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Subject: Re: Pictures of Strephon  
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
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> Done so. You can visit a new VIP page at my website at
> http://www.uni-koeln.de/Ancients (now member of the webring.)

I'm getting Error 404's on this page.  What's the official URL?

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

- ----------
Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 12:56:39 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Timeline update/Race relations

Chad Osborne wrote:
> 
> Having just returned to the Traveller scene after a 10 year break, I am
> trying to put together a campaign.  I need to ask a couple of very basic
> questions, and will try to keep it brief.  I would appreciate any help I
> can get on either of these issues;
> 
>     I.  Is there an updated timeline (post-rebellion) anywhere (online
> preferred)?  I can't even seem to determine what the "current" date is,
> and this "virus" thing has me baffled.  (I have mostly MT and T4
> materials.)

No wonder you're confused...T4 is set 1100 years _before_ the events in
MT, and the 'virus' thing was all in the supplements in between,
Traveller:The New era, which _was_ the advancement of the MT timeline.

so we have the following timeline:

	Foundation of the Third Imperium (T4) Year 0
		|
		|	
	Classic Traveller	(vague, but was up to ~1110 or so)
		|
		|
		|  <---------------|
		|		   |
		|		(Gurps Traveller "It was a bad dream 		|		Strephon had" parallel
universe)
		|
	MegaTraveller	Rebellion 1116-1120-ish
		|	<-Virus happens here, in 1120
		|
	Traveller, the New Era Rebuilding 1200-

Without starting a flame war, Virus was a doomsday weapon developed by
Lucan's side in the war, a sentient, suicidal, self-reproducing AI that
could inhabit and take over any sufficiently advanced computer or
network, using any available entry point to that computer or network. It
was released by accident, before it was controllable, and that pretty
much ended the war along with civilization as starships crashed
themselves into cities, powerplants blew themselves up, and generally
all electronic devices went beserk.

The New Era is set after all of this has settled down, the Third
Imperium is a shattered, dead hulk, and pockets of humanity are starting
to spread to the stars again.

T4 is set in a similar, but less destroyed time. This time humanity is
moving outward again after the thousand year Long Night between the
Vilani Empire/Rule of Man (1st and 2nd Imperiums) to found the Third
Imperium.

	
>     II.  What are the "current" relations between the major races.  (I'm
> only looking for the briefest of answers, e.g. Vargr accepted within the
> Imperium, and Humanati accepted within Vargr territories.)  Again, an
> online resource would be preferred, but any pointers would be
> appreciated.

Vargr have _always_ been accepted as Imperial citizens within the
Imperium. In the Rebellion, one of the Archdukes, Brzk, was Vargr, the
last of a long, distinguished line of Imperial Nobility. Their
distribution through the Imperium was decidedly skewed coreward, toward
the Vargr Extents.

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 20:35:39 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: [TWG] 101 Religions? 

Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu> wrote:

>Just curious about the status of 101 Religions.

tc passed the draft to Andy Lilly, who is editing it at the moment. This
one is getting a fine tooth comb (much like Governments) as it has a lot of
potential to undermine the goodwill the earlier work generated.... tact....
that's what we're working on...

I would anticipate it late August / early September..... around GenCon UK.

If only I could win the lottery and put a million or so (UK) aside to fund
a small gaming company for the rest of my life ;-) <sigh> Then I could do
this full time and get supplements out faster..

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #682
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Thursday, July 23 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 683



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Detailed system generators
Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**
Re: Re AntiGravity
Re: Detailed system generators 
Re: Mail problems
Canonical world names (longish)
Re: Mail problems
Re: Detailed system generators 
Re: Detailed system generators 
[none]
M:IW sectors update
Re: Detailed system generators 
Re: Mail problems 
Re: Timeline update/Race relations
Re: Timeline update/Race relations
Re Meson Comms as AP weapons
Re: Current Timelines
Re: Current Timelines
Re: Timeline update/Race relations
re: TRAVELLER ON CD-ROM
Re: detailed system generators
Re: Timeline update/Race relations

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 20:41:47 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Detailed system generators

 Talisman <shimmer@mhtc.net> wrote:

>SD Mooney wrote:
>> Perhaps a hint at which OS you want it for would be useful....
>Well, of course it would help.  --Slaps self around violently--  I use
>win95/dos.

Hmm. I think there is one called Galactic, and the Dulinor Suite had a
generator (but it was a little unstable)....

Someone else here can probably tell you where to find them...

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 20:49:21 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**

 "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net> wrote:

Dom>>Try Leisure Games
>>
>>http://www.btinternet.com/~leisuregames
>>mailto://leisuregames@btinternet.com
>
>	Unfortunately, they apparently don't allow for online submission of
>payment info--before you can order, you have to *telephone* or *fax*
>your credit card number and expiration ...

Once you've done this once you should be able to order the next time
straight from email.

I recommended Leisure Games because they are the mail order firm I use
quite a lot, and are reliable (in my experience).

Apologies if this (telephone/faxing) is a problem for people -

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:32:41 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Re AntiGravity

>>[Forward's neutronium torus accelerator thingy snipped]
>Now don't get me wrong, I like Robert Forward, he's smart guy, but he's a
>physicist, not an engineer.  The trouble with such schemes is that they
>are assumed to be a system, a control volume for you control system
>types, that is assumed to be unrelated to the rest of the universe.  If
>such a system is indeed cut off from everything else (ie, in its own
>universe, totally alone) then energy is conserved, and it works.  The
>problem is, conservation of energy requires 2 things.  
>1)  There are no outside forces acting on the control volume.
>2)  No work is done within the control volume.
>The problem is, there ARE forces acting on the control volume, and it IS
>doing work, by accelerating some mass.

In forward's system, as it accelerates whatever goes into the center of
the torus it does indeed use energy - presumably this manifests as the
neutronium dust circulating in the torus slowing down, and if you want to
use it steady-state you have to keep pumping the dust to accelerate it more.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:39:59 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Detailed system generators 

>  Talisman <shimmer@mhtc.net> wrote:
> 
> >SD Mooney wrote:
> >> Perhaps a hint at which OS you want it for would be useful....
> >Well, of course it would help.  --Slaps self around violently--  I use
> >win95/dos.
> 
> Hmm. I think there is one called Galactic, and the Dulinor Suite had a
> generator (but it was a little unstable)....
> 
> Someone else here can probably tell you where to find them...

Galactic only generates the star system per se, just main world, stellar, gas
giants, etc.  It doesn't generate every planet in it, which is what SB is
looking for.

Keven, bracing against the next flood of email bouncing from UMR.
- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:42:05 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Mail problems

I told him and got an aknowledgement.  My mailbox is going to be pretty
full by morning at this rate.

>I've been getting this message *EVERY TEN MINUTES*.  Somebody want to tell
>him
>about this, cause he DAMNED sure ain't listening to *ME*.

Hey, don't dis' brother Rob (Miracle), he does a fine job most of the time,
and his services come free of charge to us.  I haven't even seen an MPGN
plug lately.

Pete


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 22:38:59 +0200
From: "Mark Seemann" <dko3835@vip.cybercity.dk>
Subject: Canonical world names (longish)

While adding worlds mentioned in Survival Margin to my list of canonical*
worlds (new version with 1201 worlds just uploaded to
http://www2.dk-online.dk/users/mark_seemann/worlds.htm ), I discovered a couple
of interesting things.

While comparing the worlds from Survival Margin with the dgp-updated sector
files, I found a couple of new world names, as well as a couple of typos. This
will probably not come as a surprise to the list members, as the dgp-updated
sector files were incomplete and rather 'raw'.

Now, I could just adjust my own files (already did that) and let it be at
that. I'm not going to, though.

Looking through the HIWG sector files then, I see that a lot of names has been
added there.

Let's take Dagudashaag (dagu1120.nsc) as an example. The old dgp-updated file
(dagudash.sec) had maybe 95% unnamed worlds, yet the HIWG file has all worlds
named. Where do all these names come from?

I suspect that they were created by HIWG especially for these files, although
there may be an other explanation. Not that I'm going to complain about this -
I think it's a good project that saves us other people a lot of time.

I have one little issue, though: The canonical worlds mentioned in Survival
Margin has other names in the HIWG files, probably because those names weren't
known at that time.

Again, using Dagudashaag as an example, 3227 is called Manshuruk in Survival
Margin (p. 39), yet the name in the HIWG file is Namkigem. I think Manshuruk
should be accepted as the canonical name.

I suggest this: The HIWG files are updated with the few new names I've found in
Survival Margin. I would happily do this myself, but, naturally, I don't have
access to upload to the HIWG web site. What does the HIWG members say about
this?

For your reference, this is what I've found (the page reference in paranthesis is the place in Survival Margin documenting this):

1109 Diaspora should be Libert, not Liberty (p. 18)
0140 Daibei should be Aston, not Gaalorn (p. 25)
3227 Dagudashaag should be Manshuruk, not Namkigem (p. 39)
2038 Dagudashaag should be Gracilis, not Ya'uiya-ko (p. 46)
1430 Gushemege should be Neola, not Xerxes (p. 46)
1711 Ilelish should be Pharsalus (this one was unnamed) (p. 58)

Comments? Actions?

Mark Seemann
mark@dk-online.dk (home)
mse@oticon.dk (work)
http://www2.dk-online.dk/users/mark_seemann


*The word canon here refers to what has been published in one form or another by officially recognized sources. It bears no other connotation.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:51:05 -0400
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@tansoft.com>
Subject: Re: Mail problems

Its not him so much as his site.  They are returning mail to
traveller@mpgn.com.  I have recently unsubscribe the address, so they
should stop soon.

Rob


At 03:33 PM 7/23/98 -0400, you wrote:
>I've been getting this message *EVERY TEN MINUTES*.  Somebody want to tell
him 
>about this, cause he DAMNED sure ain't listening to *ME*.
>--------
>Return-Path: postmaster@albert.nuc.umr.edu 
>Return-Path: <postmaster@albert.nuc.umr.edu>
>Received: from mail.glasscity.net (localhost [127.0.0.1])
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>From: postmaster@albert.nuc.umr.edu
>Received: from albert.nuc.umr.edu (albert.nuc.umr.edu [131.151.10.18]) by 
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><jamstar@glasscity.net>; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 15:22:07 -0400
>To: jamstar@glasscity.net
>Message-ID: <9807231423.AA06774@albert.nuc.umr.edu>
>Report-Version: 2
>>To: jamstar@glasscity.net
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>
>>From postmaster Thu Jul 23 13:55 CDT 1998 remote from albert
>Report-Version: 2
>>To: jamstar@glasscity.net
>To: jamstar@glasscity.net
>Date: Thu Jul 23 18:55:00 GMT 1998
>Original-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 11:55:31 -0400
>Original-Subject: Re: Pictures of Strephon  
>End-of-Header: 
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>     ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED
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>
>>From Unknown Thu Jul 23 13:54 CDT 1998
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>Subject: Re: Pictures of Strephon  
>From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
>Mime-Version: 1.0

>Content-Length: 641
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>
>> Done so. You can visit a new VIP page at my website at
>> http://www.uni-koeln.de/Ancients (now member of the webring.)
>
>I'm getting Error 404's on this page.  What's the official URL?
>
>Keven
>
>-- 
>===========================================================================
===
>          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
>===========================================================================
===
> "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
>  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
>  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance
>
>----------
>Keven
>
>-- 
>===========================================================================
===
>          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
>===========================================================================
===
> "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
>  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
>  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 14:15:57 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Detailed system generators 

At 04:39 PM 7/23/98 -0400, you wrote:

>Galactic only generates the star system per se, just main world, stellar,
gas giants, etc.  It doesn't generate every planet in it, which is what SB
is looking for.

Accrete does the entire system.  The version labeled as "3" on my Traveller
page (URL in .sig) takes the UWP stats and places the planet in a habital
orbit.  It also complains about all the laws of physics you've just broken.
- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
jt- au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 09:32:37 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Detailed system generators 

From:           	dberry@hooked.net
Date sent:      	Thu, 23 Jul 1998 14:15:57 -0700

> At 04:39 PM 7/23/98 -0400, you wrote:

> >Galactic only generates the star system per se, just main world, stellar,
> gas giants, etc.  It doesn't generate every planet in it, which is what SB
> is looking for.

> Accrete does the entire system.  The version labeled as "3" on my Traveller
> page (URL in .sig) takes the UWP stats and places the planet in a habital
> orbit.  It also complains about all the laws of physics you've just broken.

.....And it gives you neat reports when two planets collide!

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 18:34:05 -0400
From: "Clayton Carey" <clayton@gr.cns.net>
Subject: [none]

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BDB668.78E6FD60
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

plz remove me from the mailing list
clayton@gr.cns.net
Clayton Carey
thank you

- ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BDB668.78E6FD60
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>plz remove me from the mailing =
list</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"mailto:clayton@gr.cns.net">clayton@gr.cns.net</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Clayton Carey</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>thank you</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BDB668.78E6FD60--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 10:59:02 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: M:IW sectors update

My sector map for the Interstellar Wars now has reached the end of the 2nd 
War. It is in standard Galatic 2.3 format and the zip file (now 85.6Kb) can be 
found at my ships of the Interstellar War page

<http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/intwars/IWships.htm>

Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 19:03:18 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Detailed system generators 

> At 04:39 PM 7/23/98 -0400, you wrote:
> 
> >Galactic only generates the star system per se, just main world, stellar,
> >gas giants, etc.  It doesn't generate every planet in it, which is what SB
> >is looking for.
> 
> Accrete does the entire system.  The version labeled as "3" on my Traveller
> page (URL in .sig) takes the UWP stats and places the planet in a habital
> orbit.  It also complains about all the laws of physics you've just broken.

I'm waiting for the looting to finish.  Hopefully, it'll take the input from a
Galactic or TravTools file and dump to seperate text files...

Keven
- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 19:16:29 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Mail problems 

> Its not him so much as his site.  They are returning mail to
> traveller@mpgn.com.  I have recently unsubscribe the address, so they
> should stop soon.

I'm not pissed at him, I'm pissed at UMR.  I fired up their web page to get
their fone number and called them up to bitch about it.  They said the problem
seemed to be that one of their machines dropped off their intranet and the
mailer was bouncing everything back to source.  I told them to go buy a copy of
the Sendmail book, read it, fix the damned mailer, and be *DAMNED* glad I don't
sue them for a denial of service attack.

Idiotcy cranks my blood pressure up to somewhat hazardous levels sometimes.

ObTrav:

You land at an out of the way place, a bit off the beaten path.  Your computer equipment isn't *quite* compatible with what the locals have.  When your chief moneyman logs into the planetary datanet, a harmless 'fetch the stock market quotes' instruction gets translated to 'crash the stock market'.  This locks up the planetary datanet tighter than the Imperial treasury.  The locals come out branishing torches & pitchforks.  To make things worse, your engineer has pulled the head of your powerplant to fix a minor problem with the secondary enrichment bypass valve and it'll take him 20 minutes to reassemble it.  Of course, he won't get the chance to recalibrate or realign it in that time...

Keven
- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:28:00 -0700
From: Chad Osborne <strategos@nctimes.net>
Subject: Re: Timeline update/Race relations

Thank you.  You brought up one more question.
Is T5 expected to continue in Milieu:0, or is that known yet?

Chad

dberry@hooked.net wrote:

> Since the offcial universe has sort of petered out while we wait for Marc
> to finish T5, it's really up to you.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:33:23 -0700
From: Chad Osborne <strategos@nctimes.net>
Subject: Re: Timeline update/Race relations

Thank you.  It looks like I missed a LOT in 10 years!
On my second question, perhaps I should reword.  In earlier systems, large scale conflicts provided good backdrops for
adventures (e.g. vs the Zhodani.)  I was wondering if there were any such conflicts in the "current" timeline (which is
Milieu:0 or 1200, I guess.)

Chad

Bruce Johnson wrote:

> >     II.  What are the "current" relations between the major races.  (I'm
> > only looking for the briefest of answers, e.g. Vargr accepted within the
> > Imperium, and Humanati accepted within Vargr territories.)  Again, an
> > online resource would be preferred, but any pointers would be
> > appreciated.
>
> Vargr have _always_ been accepted as Imperial citizens within the
> Imperium. In the Rebellion, one of the Archdukes, Brzk, was Vargr, the
> last of a long, distinguished line of Imperial Nobility. Their
> distribution through the Imperium was decidedly skewed coreward, toward
> the Vargr Extents.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 15:21:49 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re Meson Comms as AP weapons

>	would it then be possible to use your meson communicator to target a
>smaller object and have the same detonation effect?  Most meson guns are
>spinal or bay mounted, but could the communicator be used with the same
>effect but at a much smaller scale?
>	A smaller scale you say?  Yeah, something like a human target.
>Someone on

I don't allow it IMTU. Simply put, a MesonComm puts a few hundred eV/cm^3
(if even that much) on target, while a MesonGun puts a few Million eV on
target. This is done, in both cases by relatavistic accellerations to
control decay locus. The energy comes not from particle impacts, but
particle decay around the locus of decay. A commo unit also aimes for a
large, even distribution (several dozen meters) versus the minimum decay
zone for a MesonGun. a Commo unit recieves by monitoring other

OTOH, I have had players use it to scare troops by virtue of radiation
warnings.



William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 15:35:02 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Current Timelines

>    I.  Is there an updated timeline (post-rebellion) anywhere (online
>preferred)?  I can't even seem to determine what the "current" date is,
>and this "virus" thing has me baffled.  (I have mostly MT and T4
>materials.)

Current Time Reference is dependant upon ruleset and subset in use.

Baselines for materials, by edition of rules
Classic Traveller (Little black books): 1050-1115, in support materials. No
official time in rules themselves.

MT: 1117 from basic set.
MT + Hard Times: 1120-1130
MT + HT + Survival Margin: 1130-1200

TNE (Traveller, the New Era): 1200-1220 in various materials. Regency
Sourcebook would allow some use all the way back to 1100

T4: 0-20 in various materials, baseline for campaigning is around 20.

GURPS Traveller: post 1116, without the rebellion.
all dates in Year of the Imperium (IY)

the Virus is a (IMNSHO) half baked idea for a Domesday weapon, which
dulinor accidentally releases in later 1120's early 1130's by raiding one
of Lucan's research station. It is an AI program, adapted especially to the
semi-sapient chips used in imperial transponders since 1110 or so. Said
chips can pass the virus along to the connected computer systems. they get
the virus from radio contact, physical contact, or direct link-up with
another infected system. Said virus is supposed to be homicidal and
suicidal, but due to replication errors, it mutated into many strains. It
also depopulated the imperium's remnants in the period of 1130's-1140's,
from which it took 60-70 years to recover.

>    II.  What are the "current" relations between the major races.  (I'm
>only looking for the briefest of answers, e.g. Vargr accepted within the
>Imperium, and Humanati accepted within Vargr territories.)  Again, an
>online resource would be preferred, but any pointers would be
>appreciated.

Depends upon WHICH timeline you're using. GT will have a different setup
than MT, MT+HT, MT+HT+SM, TNE+RSB, T4.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:50:09 -0700
From: Chad Osborne <strategos@nctimes.net>
Subject: Re: Current Timelines

Thanks.  Given the choices, it looks like MT or T4 are the most common choices
at present.  I'm more comfortable with MT (since it's familiar,) but T4 has
definite possibilities.  I'll have to learn a bit more about Milieu:0 before I
can even decide which timeline to go with.  Is there a good outline of Milieu:0
(or even better, a comparison between Milieu:0 and MT) out there anywhere?

Chad

William F. Hostman wrote:

> Depends upon WHICH timeline you're using. GT will have a different setup
> than MT, MT+HT, MT+HT+SM, TNE+RSB, T4.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:12:42 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Timeline update/Race relations

At 04:28 PM 7/23/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Thank you.  You brought up one more question.
>Is T5 expected to continue in Milieu:0, or is that known yet?

Not sure, but I'm hoping for the variety of era books that supposed to come
out for T4.

The one I really want to see is Arbellatra's Regency, covering the period
from the tail end of the Civil War (620) to just after Arbellatra's
coronation (630.)

This decade is just ripe with possibilities in the Imperial Core.  Nobles
scurring to fill power vacuums, hunting down and trying war criminals,
getting caught up in the search for a legitimate heir, IMHO, this could be
one of the better products for Traveller.

Tech Level would be solidly 13, with some experimental TL 14 showing it's
head.  An interesting campaign might start with the PCs being part of
Arbellatra's Restoration Fleet, fighting the last few battles of the war.
- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 20:30:19 EDT
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: re: TRAVELLER ON CD-ROM

	[[Some time ago some one wrote about a traveller CD rom Archieve.. I'm now
intersted in this please email me with information about this Archieve thank
ya.]]

	Cost $17 till the end of the month. Money order preferred.
	Bryan Borich
	3890 50th street
	San Diego, CA 92105-3005


P.S. For those that have sent payment in. I'm still awaiting Galactic 2.4
which is close to completion, but unluckily Jim got pretty much snagged by
Real life and the hardest 10% of the work to complete so it looks like maybe
another week before I get to mailing them out.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 20:34:08 EDT
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: detailed system generators

	[[I wouldn't mind one that detailed a system & dumped it into a file, and was
fed from either a TravTools or a Galactic format.
	DOS or Linux, please.  <grin>]]

	There is a version in C on the CD-ROM. It doesn't do those formats, but if
you know how to do C code you could make the changes.

Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 20:51:15 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Timeline update/Race relations

On 07/23/98 at 04:28 PM,  Chad Osborne <strategos@nctimes.net> said:

>Thank you.  You brought up one more question.
>Is T5 expected to continue in Milieu:0, or is that known yet?

No. <g>

Mark hasn't said whether we'll be in Milieu:0 or some other time period.

Personally, I'd like to see M:0 done *right* before we move on.
However, I can understand the desire of some people to put as much time
and distance as possible between the next version of Traveller and M:0.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #683
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Friday, July 24 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 684



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Re Mixed Tech Ships
Re: Re AntiGravity
Mecha (was Re: Traveller GEEZER Club...)
Re: AntiGravity
Re: Re AntiGravity
Re: Meson Comms as AP weapons
Re: Meson Communications - Used as a weapon?
Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**
Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**
Re: Meson Communications - Used as a weapon?
Re: Mobile Starports
Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)
Re: Re AntiGravity
RE: AntiGravity
Re: 25mm Traveller Figures
Re:  Detailed system generators
RE: Traveller-digest V1998 #683
Re: Pictures of Strephon 
Re: FF&S Spreadsheet...new version
Re: Detailed system generators 
Re: Pictures of Strephon 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 21:00:47 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net>
Subject: Re: Re Mixed Tech Ships

At 10:28 PM 7/22/98 , William F. Hostman wrote:
>>snip<<
>Mechanical Computing is another sideline for low-mid tech. The BB New
>Jersey used a large mechanical computer to do fireing solutions. While any
>286 or M68K could do it just as fast, they could not do it if the power
>went out. A friend who served aboard the Jersey said there WERE emergency
>hand cranks for the Firing Computer...

BB Iowa's used a Mark 1 Able(Mk 1A) dedicated analog FCS, before radar
systems were put in use. Mk 1A used synchro's, resolvers, and control
transformers. I was trained to use and service analog systems like the MK
1A, you had to zero the synchro's et all periodically, shudder shudder, the
time used to do so...... Basically the system took the range data from the
range finder(later radars), bearing of the target, target speed and course,
firing ship's speed and course, data from the ship's gyro's etc, then the
operators turn dials using crank-like handles. They are selecting data to
input like range to fire, etc. The faster the operator inputs the variables
the faster the ship could *accurately* engage the target(s). But when it
boils down the analog FCS are just specialized calculators not anywhere
near a computer. By the way I was in LBNS when the BB New Jersey was being
refitted there, got to go her several times. Big does not truly give the
idea of her size.

>In one campaign, a player asked to have a mechanical Jump/Navigation
>computer. I allowed him to build a TL12, dedicated system, massing double
>that of a non-dedicated Model 1... with a hand crank, just in case. He did
>use it, successfully, after a bad combat. He'd no PP, but did have a
>working JDrive, and needed out quickly... so he cranked the machine
>(several increasing difficulty endurance rolls) while the navigator ploted
>the course. He jumped, all right... and even on target. The PC also was too
>tired to make the PP Repairs until the next evening... so everyone had to
>sleep with Oxygen masks and thermal bags.

The MK 1A used two different crank settings one course, the other fine, ie
you pulled the crank up or pushed down depending on which you wanted. I
would put the mass of a analog jump computer at about 4 times the mass of
digital computer, but the number of variables needing to be entered ie
number of cranks, shudder shudder...

>snipo<

Sinbad Sam
sinbad@hex.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 19:35:54 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re AntiGravity

In mail you write:

>
> On Thu, 23 Jul 1998 01:29:46 PST shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard
> Erickson) writes:
>>
>>Well, for a *good* description, pick up a copy of "Indistinguishable
>>from Magic" by Dr. Robert Forward. 
>>
>>Here's a crude description. 
>>
>>You start with a toroidal coil (ie the sort of coil you'd get by
>>wrapping wire around a donut by going *into* hole while winding) of
>>piping. You "pump" the dense fluid through the piping. As it
>>accelerates, it generates gravity-like forces in the direction of its
>>motion. So if the pipes come *up* throught the center and back *down*
>>on the outside, an object sitting in the center will be thrown upwards
>>with great force, but anyone inside wouldn't feel a thing. 
>>
>>That's just one of several designs. 
>
> Now don't get me wrong, I like Robert Forward, he's smart guy, but he's a
> physicist, not an engineer.  The trouble with such schemes is that they
> are assumed to be a system, a control volume for you control system
> types, that is assumed to be unrelated to the rest of the universe.  If
> such a system is indeed cut off from everything else (ie, in its own
> universe, totally alone) then energy is conserved, and it works.  The
> problem is, conservation of energy requires 2 things.  
>
> 1)  There are no outside forces acting on the control volume.
>
> 2)  No work is done within the control volume.
>
> The problem is, there ARE forces acting on the control volume, and it IS
> doing work, by accelerating some mass.   Personally, my opinion is that
> we might be able to find some way to accelerate masses without tossing
> mass out the back of an engine, we still will have to spend some energy
> somewhere, and we still won't be able to just circumvent gravity, and we
> still can't ignore momentum, so no ships doing 10,000 g accelerations
> while we have tea and cakes.

In this design you *are* expending energy. You have to accelerate the
the fluid. And *keep* accelerating it. And you'll need more energy if
there's a mass being launched than if you are just doing a "static
test" with no mass in the center.

I don't know *where* you get the idea that this requires isolation from
the rest of the universe. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 19:39:24 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Mecha (was Re: Traveller GEEZER Club...)

In mail you write:

> I have a question here, but what TL would Mecha be?  What TL would
> BattleMechs be?  I have a player who whats to create the VF-1 from Macross
> & use it as a fighter.  Just wondering what the Old Geezers would say...

Mecha aren't workable at *any* TL. They violate the square-cube law
(which is based on *geometry*, rather than physics, so forget the
arguments about "maybe the law is wrong").

In essence, if an object's linear size is multiplied by X, its areas
all increase by X^2, and its volumes increase by X^3.

Which means that while cross-sectional areas of supports go up by X^2,
the *streses* (based on the *mass* of components, which is a function
of volume) go up by X^3. So if it's X times bigger, everything has X
times the stress. Which means either that it's X times more fragile, or
needs materials that are X times stronger.

So, a mech that stands 20 meters tall is either 10 times weaker than a
human sized one, or requires materials that are 10 times stronger.

If you make the support members thicker, you wind up with something
that's not at all humanoid long before they get thick enough to handle
the stresses. 

Also, the extra moving parts required for "shape changing" massively
increase the number of failure points and possible failure modes.
Consider how much less reliable the original F-111 swing-wing was
compared with contemporary aircraft. They finally got the problems
mostly solved, but it's still extra complexity and more ways to fail.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 19:48:44 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: AntiGravity

In mail you write:

>
>> > You start with a toroidal coil (ie the sort of coil you'd get by
>> > wrapping wire around a donut by going *into* hole while winding) of
>> > piping. You "pump" the dense fluid through the piping. As it
>> > accelerates, it generates gravity-like forces in the direction of its
>> > motion. So if the pipes come *up* throught the center and back *down*
>> > on the outside, an object sitting in the center will be thrown upwards
>> > with great force, but anyone inside wouldn't feel a thing.
>> >
>>Pumping high gravity fluid through the torroid won't do that since the
>>torroid would presumably be filled with this fluid.
>
> No, it does actually work in a "steady state". In general relativity, 
> extremely massive rotating objects have tend to drag objects near them along
> with their rotation - "frame dragging". The moving fluid on the inside coils
> of the torus will tend to produce a gravitational field near those coils that
> will accelerate nearby objects in the same direction the fluid is moving. 
> To get a noticeable effect, as Leonard says, you need something as dense as
> neutronium, but that's an engineering detail. 

That's a different device. This one works because of forces generated
by *accelerating* the fluid. Those forces don't exist in the "steady
state". 

The forces are related to gravity waves, not to "dragging the metric". 

Sort of like the difference between an electrostatic motor (which uses
static electrical charges) and the electromagnetic motors we are more
familiar with (which work due to the magnetic fields generated by
moving charges).

> I wouldn't call it antigravity - just clever manipulation of existing
> gravity. (Kind of like the fact that you could cancel our Earth's surface
> gravity by parking a big neutronium disk right overhead that pulls you up
> with an equal force.)

That's another design. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 19:29:27 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re AntiGravity

In mail you write:

>> > You start with a toroidal coil (ie the sort of coil you'd get by
>> > wrapping wire around a donut by going *into* hole while winding) of
>> > piping. You "pump" the dense fluid through the piping. As it
>> > accelerates, it generates gravity-like forces in the direction of its
>> > motion. So if the pipes come *up* throught the center and back *down*
>> > on the outside, an object sitting in the center will be thrown upwards
>> > with great force, but anyone inside wouldn't feel a thing.
>
> Pumping high gravity fluid through the torroid won't do that since the
> torroid would presumably be filled with this fluid.

Re-read the above. The fluid is being pumped thru pipes *wrapped
around* the toroid. And the effects are due to the *acceleration* of
the fluid, not merely the motion. So you have to operate in a "pulse
mode, as the fluid rapidly approaches c!

> A slight variant would be a series of dumbells that pivot at the center.
> The ends of the dumbells would be gravity dense and would offset their own
> weight.  Arrange these in a circle around your launch platform.  Now you
> rotate all of these.  Since gravity drops off with the square of distance,
> the pull from the near weights is greater than the far weights thus
> producing a net acceleration.  Of course this only produces pulses of
> reduced gravity and it would be much more efficient to throw the object
> using physical contact.

Except for the fact that using gravity rather than physical contact
means that all particles in the object are accelerated *equally*, thus
resulting in no acceleration stresses.

The scheme you describe is the "smoke ring" system. You get the same
results by using solid *rings* rotating rapidly (the limiting case is
to somehow have a dense toroid rotating "inside out"). But not for the
reasons you state. The rapidly rotating mass "drags the metric" along
with it, thus causing gravity like forces.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 20:18:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Cook <markc@peak.org>
Subject: Re: Meson Comms as AP weapons

William F. Hostman <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU> writes:
> 
> >	would it then be possible to use your meson communicator to target a
> >smaller object and have the same detonation effect?  Most meson guns are
> >spinal or bay mounted, but could the communicator be used with the same
> >effect but at a much smaller scale?
> 
> I don't allow it IMTU. Simply put, a MesonComm puts a few hundred eV/cm^3
> (if even that much) on target, while a MesonGun puts a few Million eV on
> target. This is done, in both cases by relatavistic accellerations to
> control decay locus. The energy comes not from particle impacts, but
> particle decay around the locus of decay. A commo unit also aimes for a
> large, even distribution (several dozen meters) versus the minimum decay
> zone for a MesonGun.

However, meson comms can be used in other, interesting, offensive ways.

You should read part of the TML PBeM archive (at the URL:
http://www.ssgfx.com/traveler/archive).  Read Turn 2 from 1993, Parts
3 and 4.  One of the resident genuises aboard the good ship Elissa uses
a modulated meson beam to "kill" an attacking pirate ship.  By aiming
the beam at the cores of the attacking ships twin fusion plants, he
causes a severe enough fluctuation in the power flow that the plants
both scram, and cripple the attacker.

Pretty damn clever, if you ask me. :^)

        - Mark C.
          Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy
          EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75
          Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR
          NRA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)
          Front Sight First Family member #1

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 mark f. cook * mark cook consulting *  shoestring graphics & printing
 2055 s.w. whiteside dr. * corvallis, or, 97333-1406 * markc@ssgfx.com
 Phone: 541-753-2732      Fax: 541-753-2738       http://www.ssgfx.com
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
       "Where am I... and what am I doing in this handbasket?"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 20:03:29 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Meson Communications - Used as a weapon?

In mail you write:

>         I have a funny question.  Now, I'm not a gear head, so this
> may be a no brainer to some, but it has been nagging me for the past
> few minutes.  Since a meson gun are supposed to be used to move
> mesons through any intervening material and set to detonate within
> it's target - I also assume that the same is true for meson
> communications.
>         would it then be possible to use your meson communicator to
> target a smaller object and have the same detonation effect?  Most
> meson guns are spinal or bay mounted, but could the communicator be
> used with the same effect but at a much smaller scale?

Nope. Consider the difference between a laser comm unit and a weapons
grade laser.

For communications *microwatts* is an acceptable signal strength at the
target. For weapons, you need Megawatts. That's a difference of 12
orders of magnitude (ie 10^12 or one quadrillion).

The communicator just doesn't have the power.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 21:31:19 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**

At 08:49 pm 7/23/98 +0100, you wrote:
>>	Unfortunately, they apparently don't allow for online submission
of
>>payment info--before you can order, you have to *telephone* or
*fax*
>>your credit card number and expiration ...
>
>Once you've done this once you should be able to order the next time
>straight from email.
>
>I recommended Leisure Games because they are the mail order firm I use
>quite a lot, and are reliable (in my experience).
>
>Apologies if this (telephone/faxing) is a problem for people -

	I'm just [a] lazy (email/web ordering rocks!), and [b] several hours
off of normal office hours for UK, and [c] too cheap to pick up the
phone ... Frankly, sending them my CC info via email is just as
insecure as giving it over the phone, or handing my card to a clerk
in a store
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 21:35:49 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**

At 08:49 pm 7/23/98 +0100, you wrote:
>>	Unfortunately, they apparently don't allow for online submission of
>>payment info--before you can order, you have to *telephone* or *fax*
>>your credit card number and expiration ...
>
>Once you've done this once you should be able to order the next time
>straight from email.
>
>I recommended Leisure Games because they are the mail order firm I use
>quite a lot, and are reliable (in my experience).
>
>Apologies if this (telephone/faxing) is a problem for people -

	I'm just [a] lazy (email/web ordering rocks!), and [b] several hours
off of normal office hours for UK, and [c] too cheap to pick up the
phone ... Frankly, sending them my CC info via email is just as
insecure as giving it over the phone, or handing my card to a clerk
in a store
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 00:03:59 -0400
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: Re: Meson Communications - Used as a weapon?

Leonard Erikson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nope. Consider the difference between a laser comm unit and a weapons
grade laser.

For communications *microwatts* is an acceptable signal strength at the
target. For weapons, you need Megawatts. That's a difference of 12
orders of magnitude (ie 10^12 or one quadrillion).

The communicator just doesn't have the power.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There are many sensor and communication devices that are dangerous,
though. Notice the "Laser Source" warning on your CD-ROM drive
innards? Not to mention the way a radar dish can cook an unprotected
person pretty quickly.

They mention this in the "Smoke Test" chapter of _Arrival Vengeance_,
btw...a static discharge fries the commo unit and maneuver pack of
a crewman doing a hull inspection, Arrival Vengeance can't turn on her
sensor suite to find the drifting Starman because the sensors will surely
fry the guy as soon as they find him.

Hmmm - what effect does a several-AUrange radar dish have when swept
across a boarding party in battle dress at a range of a few meters, at full
power? Sometimes it can _suck_ to be a Marine...

Anyway, He's not talking about using a Meson communicator to blow someone's head off, just cause a heart palpitation or seizure - effects
that, properly placed, could be done with millivolts of energy. The only
problem is targeting - how do you blip the fifty-third neuron on the
left with a meson commo pulse inside a moving soldier?


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 21:49:10 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Mobile Starports

Just a thought here, but you people have been talking about mobile
starports via water, but what about mobile starports that are large ships. 
What I was thinking about putting in my game is somthing along the lines of
a 10 Mt to 100 Mt Starship that is also a Class A or B starport.  A truely
mobile starport.

Legate Legion, Militant Jewish Terrorist
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"The system does not matter, its ROLE-Playing that matters." - Me to
Acid_Blue, Chuckles, & Rob the Lumberjackman.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 01:56:58 EDT
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)

 "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com> asks:

>Subject: Re: Traveller GEEZER Club...


>I have a question here, but what TL would Mecha be?  What TL would
>BattleMechs be?  I have a player who whats to create the VF-1 from Macross
>& use it as a fighter.  Just wondering what the Old Geezers would say...
>

 Depends on material science and the reaction times of whatever makes the
joints work. Just for grins I would put Battletech at 1 or 2 TL above the
introduction of Legs as a vehicle option, with Gundam one level above that
and the Macross Valkyrie and the Mortarheads of FSS one level beyond THAT.

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 23:54:27 -0700
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
Subject: Re: Re AntiGravity

Leonard Erickson wrote:
...
> >> > on the outside, an object sitting in the center will be thrown upwards
> >> > with great force, but anyone inside wouldn't feel a thing.
> >
> > Pumping high gravity fluid through the torroid won't do that since the
> > torroid would presumably be filled with this fluid.
> 
> Re-read the above. The fluid is being pumped thru pipes *wrapped
> around* the toroid. And the effects are due to the *acceleration* of
> the fluid, not merely the motion. So you have to operate in a "pulse
> mode, as the fluid rapidly approaches c!

It looks like the thing that would keep this from working from a physics
standpoint is the mass of the apparatus generating the repulsive field. 
Even if the liquid could be rapidly pushed to c, it's own apparent mass
would create more attraction than repulsion.  

My $0.02 worth of my physics education.

Kristian

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 08:59:19 +0200
From: Christian Gotschi <ChristianG@vircom.co.za>
Subject: RE: AntiGravity

	>-----Original Message-----
	>From:	shadow@krypton.rain.com [SMTP:shadow@krypton.rain.com]
	>Sent:	Wednesday, July 22, 1998 7:14 AM
	>
	>Amplifiers (tube) exhibit negative resistance. You put in X
volts and
	>you get out X time 2 volts (or whatever). Semiconductor based
	>amplifiers do the same with current.
	>
	>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)

	[Christian Götschi]
	In an amplifier you need to pump in the current you want
amplified and another current to supply the power. (you can't get
something for nothing.)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 01:45:15 -0700
From: Skoal <skoal@mail.gci-net.com>
Subject: Re: 25mm Traveller Figures

Ground Zero Games makes some real nice 25mm fig's.
I just miss the old laserburn 15mm's..


"Preserve what we created, Norris, and remember what we stood for."
                               - Strephon, 179-1126

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 18:01:45 +0800
From: "Michael Bailey" <mickb@opera.iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re:  Detailed system generators

This will be written into the next release of TRTOOLS.  I'm working on it
now, hopefully v0.98.1 will be out in a couple of weeks, tops.


Later,


Mick

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 20:26:00 +1000
From: Craig Brain <cjbrain@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1998 #683

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I just wanted to let everyone know that I've enjoyed my time reading the =
Traveller-Digest and that I will miss being able to read it in a couple =
of weeks. I will be ending my account with Ozemail and moving to =
Thursday Island, where sadly it cost $12/hr for email privileges, when =
available. I am looking forward to seeing T5 on the shelves  and seeing =
what happens with GURPS - Traveller. I hope that Marc includes some of =
the great stuff that you guys have been posting.

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 12:30:52 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: Pictures of Strephon 

On Thu, 23 Jul 1998, Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:

> > Done so. You can visit a new VIP page at my website at
> > http://www.uni-koeln.de/Ancients (now member of the webring.)
> 
> I'm getting Error 404's on this page.  What's the URL?

Sorry, I missed a directory ...

http://www.uni-koeln.de/~acp82/Ancients

This should work

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 22:59:35 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: FF&S Spreadsheet...new version

From:           	"Andy Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Date sent:      	Thu, 23 Jul 1998 08:44:36 -0500

> A serious bug has been found in my FF&S spreadsheet (thanks to the TravTech
> list guys...). Basically, component armor was completely wrong...I misplaced
> part of the formula that caused component armor to be MUCH more efficient
> than it should have been. Note that previous designs using component armor
> are, thus, wrong. Sorry 'bout that.

I hate to tell you this but I think I've found another bug. In the cells relating to 
the area of ECM gear (M124 - M129) the formula looks for the folding array flag 
in the H column when the flag is set in the G column.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 07:17:57 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Detailed system generators 

> This will be written into the next release of TRTOOLS.  I'm working on it
> now, hopefully v0.98.1 will be out in a couple of weeks, tops.

COOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

BTW, where did you find the Linux units for Free Pascal, Mick?

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 07:19:31 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Pictures of Strephon 

> On Thu, 23 Jul 1998, Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:
> 
> > > Done so. You can visit a new VIP page at my website at
> > > http://www.uni-koeln.de/Ancients (now member of the webring.)
> > 
> > I'm getting Error 404's on this page.  What's the URL?
> 
> Sorry, I missed a directory ...
> 
> http://www.uni-koeln.de/~acp82/Ancients
> 
> This should work

Thanxx.

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #684
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Friday, July 24 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 685



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Crime and punishment
GURPS: Traveller is off!
FF&S Spreadsheet
Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)
Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**
Re: Mobile Starports
Re: Mobile Starports
Re: Mobile Starports
Re: Mecha (was Re: Traveller GEEZER Club...)
Sort of off-topic but not quite....
Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**
Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)
Re: Mobile Starports
Re: Mobile Starports
Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)
Tech Levels of Alien Races\M0 regression algorhythms

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 04:42:33 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Crime and punishment

> Yes, Please send a copy along.
> Thanks

Same here...

> Pat Connaughton

Legate Legion, Militant Jewish Terrorist
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"The system does not matter, its ROLE-Playing that matters." - Me to
Acid_Blue, Chuckles, & Rob the Lumberjackman.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 08:35:30 -0500
From: John Kovalic <muskrat@msn.fullfeed.com>
Subject: GURPS: Traveller is off!

From the Daily Illuminator list:


SJ Games News: GURPS Traveller To Press

   By the skin of our teeth, GURPS Traveller made it out of here today,
   one day behind schedule. It was almost two days . . . I got in the FedEx
   door at 9:29:57 or so, just as they were closing it. Every time that
   happens, I say "Gotta QUIT this!"

   So it will PROBABLY still make it to the stores by mid-September; we
   now need for the printer not to have any problems, because we have used
   up our slack. Watch this space for updates.

   Big thanks to everybody who made this come out: print buyers Monica Stephens
   and Melissa Brunson pressed into service as proofreaders, copiers and
   indexers, Alain Dawson slamming the art in there, author Loren Wiseman
   tweaking (or adding) sidebars until the very last moment, and most of
   all Jack Elmy and Gene Seabolt, doing Quark layout with one side of the
   brain and editing with the other. We couldn't have done it without you.
   Shoot, we wouldn't be US without you . . .
   -- Steve Jackson



**************************************************
       "This must be Thursday. I never COULD get the hang of Thursdays"
                                              - Arthur Dent
**************************************************
              "Dork Tower," "Wild Life," "Beached," "Murphy's Rules":
           at 'TOON CENTRAL: http://www.msn.fullfeed.com/~muskrat/
**************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 08:37:56 -0500
From: "Andy Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: FF&S Spreadsheet

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:

> I hate to tell you this but I think I've found another bug. In the cells relating to
> the area of ECM gear (M124 - M129) the formula looks for the folding array flag
> in the H column when the flag is set in the G column.

Well...hey, that's not a bug! It's a feature! Yah, that's it! People across
the world have demanded such a feature, and I have given it to them! Yes!


*SMACK*

Ahem. Sorry about that. Version 2.9 with the ECM folding array problem fixed
is available on the web site:

http://www.ames.net/igor/traveller

In the FileList section, or the Operations section of either the Frames or
NoFrames site.

As usual, Excel 5.0, Excel 97, and Quattro Pro 8.0 versions are available.

I've had several requests for a "User's Manual" for the spreadsheet...you
know you're getting big when you need a manual. Needless to say, I've gotten
enough requests that I will write one, but I don't know when it'll be
finished. I'll keep you posted. In the meantime, please note that the Intro
page of the spreadsheet has some simple instructions, if you scroll down.


+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                       |
| Home: igor@ames.net - http://www.ames.net/igor/                    |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/                    |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU: tc++(**) ru+ ge 3i+ jt- au+ ls+ kk+ hi+ as+ va+ dr+ so+ zh+  |
|       vi+ da+                                                      |
| Geek: GCS d- s+:+ a- C++ W++ w+++(-)$ PS+ PE t- 5++ X+ R+++ tv+    |
|       b+++ DI+ D-- G e+ h---- r+++ y++++                           |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 09:55:32 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)

> "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com> asks:
>
>>Subject: Re: Traveller GEEZER Club...
>
>>I have a question here, but what TL would Mecha be?  What TL would
>>BattleMechs be?  I have a player who whats to create the VF-1 from Macross
>>& use it as a fighter.  Just wondering what the Old Geezers would say...
>>
> Depends on material science and the reaction times of whatever makes the
>joints work. Just for grins I would put Battletech at 1 or 2 TL above the
>introduction of Legs as a vehicle option, with Gundam one level above that
>and the Macross Valkyrie and the Mortarheads of FSS one level beyond THAT.

The real question is; 'why make them at all'.  Battlemechs/Mecha/etc are
fun in a game sense, but from a military and tactical standpoint they are
too fragile to outweigh their value as weapons platforms.  Traveller, being
a 'hard science' game, doesn't really have room for battlemechs in any
'real' battles.

Forex, Take that 50mm autocanon you were about to put in the arm of your 75
ton walking armored hulk and put it into a good sized grav tank instead.
Your grav tank has, at the same TL, better manuverability, lower
detectability, is more easily transported, more heavily armored, easier to
manufacture, isn't going to sink into the mud (unless you land it) and is
most likely cheaper (last is hard to judge without mech building rules).
There is such a huge advantage of the tank-like weapon system over the
mech-like weapon system that there is simply no  reason anyone would build
a mech like weapon system.

The one venue I can think of is if there is a competition industry, like
car racing or pro wrestling, where such machines are built (relatively
cheaply) with "play" weapons (underpowered lasers, non-penetrating
autocannons) for mass consumption in the media.  It could also be set in a
"high honor" culture where such machines are the tools of the code duello.

The other aspect of this I will encourage is "small" mechs.  A single
soldier in powered armor is a concept that can be somewhat enlarged in the
squad support role.  I envision marine drop squads having 5 standard
powered armor suits and one "heavy"; a powered armor 25% bigger, carrying a
six-pack of guided missiles and some sort fo heavy, direct fire weapon in
its arms [FGMP+?] (which a standard suit would not be able to handle).

Of course, how many times in *your* campaign do the players encounter a
full marine assault drop?

IYTU you may, of course, use mechs at the length of your desire, but I
think the standard/canon/typical traveller universe leaves them out for a
reason.

Pete

                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 07:34:15 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**

David J. Golden wrote:

>         I'm just [a] lazy (email/web ordering rocks!), and [b] several hours
> off of normal office hours for UK, and [c] too cheap to pick up the
> phone ... Frankly, sending them my CC info via email is just as
> insecure as giving it over the phone, or handing my card to a clerk
> in a store

Actually it can be _more_ secure, as my wife found out one time. She was
booking a flight with an airline one time, and got to chatting with the person
on the other end of the line, who was quite happy to waste time doing so,
since he was doing it. Time that is...the phone operations had been contracted
out to the Colorado State Board of Prisons. In one fell swoop, a convicted
felon got her name, address, card number, when we were leaving town, and how
long we would be gone!

Nothing happened, of course, but I've _never_ worried about sending my CC
number across e-mail ever again.

Bruce Johnson

/*insert witty saying here */

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 07:59:21 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Mobile Starports

Legate Legion wrote:
> 
> Just a thought here, but you people have been talking about mobile
> starports via water, but what about mobile starports that are large ships.
> What I was thinking about putting in my game is somthing along the lines of
> a 10 Mt to 100 Mt Starship that is also a Class A or B starport.  A truely
> mobile starport.

I did one of those up some time back. It was limited to working on ships (or
any combination of size up to that) in several huge bays. It was staggeringly
expensive. I don't remember if I actually posted it or not, so here goes.

(note this isn't the Mt size class you're looking for...but it's certainly a
flying starport)

Something I realized just now...the discussion we had recently of importing
vs. manufacturing jump drives is somewhat invalidated by concepts like a QSDS
ship...built of stadardized plug 'n play parts.

Hephaestus Class Mobile Shipyard Cost: 57,674 MCr

General:
TL 12		100,000 displacement tons	1G/Jump 2
Configuration: Cylinder USL 	Dimensions: 79 x 79 x 278 m

Mass: loaded/empty 1.60e6/1.05e6 tons

Engineering:
Power plant: 89,000 MW (780 MW 'spare' capacity)
Jump Performance: 2
Maneuver Performance: 1 (35,000 MW/G)

Fuel Tankage:	2.8e5 m^3 Jump (1.4e5 m^3/parsec)
		13,350 m^3 Power (1 year duration)

No fuel purification

Maintenence Points: 50,776

Electronics:
Computers 	3 x TL12 Std
Commo 		1 x 1000 AU Laser TL12
		1 x 300,000 km radio TL12
Sensors		16,000,000 km range PEMS
Sensor Sig.	0.5 refl/ 1.5 emm
Controls	DynLinked High Automation
Workstations	Bridge:  126
		Regular: 561

Armament:
None

Accomodations:
Crew: 1417 (121 Command, 10 maneuver, 2 Electronics, 561 Engineering, 163
Maintenence, 55 stewards, 12 medical, 500 shipyard crew)

Small Staterooms: 1304
Large Staterooms: 123

Officer's Galley: Full Galley, to serve entire command complement
Crew Galley	: Ordinary Galley, to serve entire crew complement

Carried Craft:
4 x 100Td shuttles in minimial hangars

Other:
Cargo:	18,000 Td for parts storage
	268 Td for misc ship's use.

Shops:	25 Electronics
	25 Machine
	6 Sickbays

Construction bays: 1 x 5000 Td, 2 x 2000 Td

Description:

The Hephaestus is a large, jump-capable QSDS shipyard, capable of
constructing, simultaneously, 9000 Td of ships at a time in its specially
modified spacious hangars. Unlike most space-based ship construction and
repair facilities, the Hephaestus maintains a shirtsleeve environment for the
entire construction process, greatly improving both construction crew
efficiency and safety. Large cargo areas adjacent to the construction bays can
store the parts required to build 1 of the maximum size ship the bay can hold.
It is anticipated that the Hephaestus will be re-supplied on a reqular basis.

Anticipated missions for the Hephaestus include advanced mobile shipyards to
support Naval, Scout and civilian needs for repair and reconstruction at the
far reaches of the Imperium, and for rapid upgrades of starports to class B
and C. A multi-year lease on a Hephaestus is considerably cheaper than
building a starport, and can generate revenues to support expanding trade in
remote areas while ground-based starports are financed and built to take it's place.

The specialized nature of the Hephaestus allows it to assemble QSDS
componentized ships at a rapid rate. The record for assembly of a standard
200Td Far Trader was in 097 by a crew aboard the Vulcan, which produced the
ship in 5 days.

This far trader is on display at the headquarters of Thorim Shipyards, the
original manufacturer and designer of the Hephaestus class, which is probably
a good thing...it is doubtful that a ship built in such haste would have fared
very well in regular service.

Still, there are a number of these huge ships operating in and out of Imperial
space, generally on lease to planetary or multiplanetary governments
attempting to provide a local shipbuilding presence.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 11:53:10 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: Mobile Starports

At 09:49 PM 7/23/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Just a thought here, but you people have been talking about mobile
>starports via water, but what about mobile starports that are large ships. 
>What I was thinking about putting in my game is somthing along the lines of
>a 10 Mt to 100 Mt Starship that is also a Class A or B starport.  A truely
>mobile starport.

I would suggest that for this, you might want to try one of those lab ships...

Kurt Feltenberger

“We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a
habit.”
- --- Aristotle ---

mailto:kurt@blazenet.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 11:07:30 -0500
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Mobile Starports

"Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com> asked:

> Just a thought here, but you people have been talking about mobile
> starports via water, but what about mobile starports that are large ships. 
> What I was thinking about putting in my game is somthing along the lines of
> a 10 Mt to 100 Mt Starship that is also a Class A or B starport.  A truely
> mobile starport.

What's it's purpose?  The vehicle will be at least as expensive as an entire
numbered fleet, so you'll need a good rationale for it to be built.  To make
it, you'll need to tie up the entire yard of a large pop-A world for several
years as well.

In TNE, at least, you'll need to be aware of surface area limitations.  The
jump drive requires surface area.  As ship volume increases, it turns out 
that surface area needed by the jump drive rises faster than the increase 
in surface area; there's a limit on how big a jump-capable starship can be
built because of this.  For a sphere, the worst case, a jump-6 drive uses
up all the surface area on a hull 256 meters long (636,000 tons).  A jump-1
drive uses up all the surface area on a hull 900 meters long (27 million
tons).  You can avoid this for a while by selecting a non-spherical
configuration, but eventually you'll run up against it again.  I haven't
looked at FFS2, but this probably also is true in T4.

Considering how expensive the jump drive is, you'll probably want to put
in the smallest one you can that still works for the port's mission.

Anyone else have practical suggestions?

  -- Steve Bonneville

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 09:07:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Mecha (was Re: Traveller GEEZER Club...)

Leonard Erickson writes:
> 
> Mecha aren't workable at *any* TL. They violate the square-cube law
> (which is based on *geometry*, rather than physics, so forget the
> arguments about "maybe the law is wrong").

Um...wrong.  If you double the strength of materials (without doubling the
weight) you can construct an object of twice the linear size.  You can build
mecha, you just need materials with higher strength to weight ratios than human
flesh and bone.  This is not actually all that hard, you could build medium
sized armored mecha (battletech-sized) with TL 7 materials, though they'd be
breakdown prone and you'd need better control technology than is available at
TL 7.  Now, the really super-sized mecha are a problem with the square-cube
law, but a battletech sized mech (which is less than ten meters tall, and tends
to be rather squat) isn't really that bad.

Which is not to say that mecha are a _good_ idea at any TL -- compared to a
comparable tank, a mecha will be (a) less armored, particularly on the front (a
human-sized object has far more area which needs to be armored), and (b) have a
much higher profile, making it significantly easier to spot and shoot at.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 10:01:28 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Sort of off-topic but not quite....

Saw this today in the Info-Mac digest:
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: 
       [*] DropUNIX1.3
   Date: 
       Thu, 23 Jul 1998 10:10:17 -0700
   From: 
       zss@ZenSpider.com



DropUNIX is a drop-in library and one-line header file for Macintosh
programmers to give UNIX and DOS command line application ports a full
Macintosh GUI interface including drag and drop capabilities. It
requires
one line of code to be added to one file, no other source modifications
are
necessary. Works for all MacOS versions that support AppleEvents (7+).

The latest version is always available at http://www.ZenSpider.com/
           Ryan Davis         -=-    Zen Spider Software
 -=- mailto:zss@ZenSpider.com -=- http://www.ZenSpider.com/ -=-
I know that you believe you understand what you think I said but,
I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

[Archived as /info-mac/dev/lib/drop-unix-13.hqx; 64K]
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

This might be a help for anyone porting that plethora of 'C' source code
on the TML CD....

Apple's now offering MPW for free download, which means...at
last...there is a freely available C and C++ compiler for the mac. While
the MPW is a primitive programming environment compared to Metrowerks
(so I'm told), it would work to get Q&D ports to the Mac.

for that see:

ftp://ftp.apple.com/devworld/Tool_Chest/

MPW, MacApp and other development tools are there.

Now if I could just win the lottery so I could play with my computer
full time instead of having to _work_ on one I'd go do it...;-)

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 09:52:06 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**

At 09:35 PM 7/23/98 -0600, you wrote:

>	I'm just [a] lazy (email/web ordering rocks!), and [b] several hours
>off of normal office hours for UK, and [c] too cheap to pick up the
>phone ... Frankly, sending them my CC info via email is just as
>insecure as giving it over the phone, or handing my card to a clerk
>in a store

*grin*  The other day, I had a guest going on about how unsafe web-commerce
was.  Her mantra was "they have your credit card number!"  At a stoplight,
I pulled out her credit slip and pointed out that *I* had her credit card
number, and knew she was going out of the country!  The silence was
deafening.
- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+-------------------------------------+
| "I'm just like anybody else, I want |
|  to be a non-conformist too."       |
|                      -Lenny Bruce   |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 11:19:01 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)

> From: Peter H. Brenton <pbrenton@mit.edu>
> >>I have a question here, but what TL would Mecha be?  What TL would
> >>BattleMechs be?  I have a player who whats to create the VF-1 from
Macross
> >>& use it as a fighter.  Just wondering what the Old Geezers would say...
> > Depends on material science and the reaction times of whatever makes the
> >joints work. Just for grins I would put Battletech at 1 or 2 TL above the
> >introduction of Legs as a vehicle option, with Gundam one level above that
> >and the Macross Valkyrie and the Mortarheads of FSS one level beyond THAT.
> The real question is; 'why make them at all'.  Battlemechs/Mecha/etc are
> fun in a game sense, but from a military and tactical standpoint they are
> too fragile to outweigh their value as weapons platforms.  Traveller,
being
> a 'hard science' game, doesn't really have room for battlemechs in any
> 'real' battles.

Well, one of the reasons a Mecha are better than Grav-Tanks at least in my
mind is the fact that they can have more weapons pointing in the same
direction.  That gives me a sort of a pause, plus think about it this way,
you are a common, average, everyday soldier & one day as you go out to
fight, you see a 40' tall mechanical giant.  What would you do?

> Forex, Take that 50mm autocanon you were about to put in the arm of your
75
> ton walking armored hulk and put it into a good sized grav tank instead.
> Your grav tank has, at the same TL, better manuverability, lower
> detectability, is more easily transported, more heavily armored, easier
to
> manufacture, isn't going to sink into the mud (unless you land it) and is
> most likely cheaper (last is hard to judge without mech building rules).
> There is such a huge advantage of the tank-like weapon system over the
> mech-like weapon system that there is simply no  reason anyone would
build
> a mech like weapon system.

Maybe, in some situations, but there are some that Mecha would be better. 
City combat, forest combat, etc.  As for putting a 50mm AC in a mecha, are
you nuts.  Plasma Weapons.  High Damage, no ammo to carry.

> The one venue I can think of is if there is a competition industry, like
> car racing or pro wrestling, where such machines are built (relatively
> cheaply) with "play" weapons (underpowered lasers, non-penetrating
> autocannons) for mass consumption in the media.  It could also be set in
a
> "high honor" culture where such machines are the tools of the code
duello.

Sounds good.

> The other aspect of this I will encourage is "small" mechs.  A single
> soldier in powered armor is a concept that can be somewhat enlarged in
the
> squad support role.  I envision marine drop squads having 5 standard
> powered armor suits and one "heavy"; a powered armor 25% bigger, carrying
a
> six-pack of guided missiles and some sort fo heavy, direct fire weapon in
> its arms [FGMP+?] (which a standard suit would not be able to handle).

Sorta like the Mecha from Exo-Squad?

> Of course, how many times in *your* campaign do the players encounter a
> full marine assault drop?

Um, right now, they are in a war between the Eldar Confederation (my own
creation) & the Imps.  The Imps are losing because the EC have Mecha. 
Right now, I have based the ECs mecha on Macross II, Macross +, & Macross
7.

> IYTU you may, of course, use mechs at the length of your desire, but I
> think the standard/canon/typical traveller universe leaves them out for a
> reason.

Maybe, maybe not.  Remember Loren said they left out Spherical Grav-Tanks
because at the time, he did not want them to be laughed at.  Plus, the fact
that Mecha were not well known in the US in 1977.

> Pete

Legate Legion, Militant Jewish Terrorist
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"The system does not matter, its ROLE-Playing that matters." - Me to
Acid_Blue, Chuckles, & Rob the Lumberjackman.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 11:28:54 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Mobile Starports

> From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
> > Just a thought here, but you people have been talking about mobile
> > starports via water, but what about mobile starports that are large ships. 
> > What I was thinking about putting in my game is somthing along the lines of
> > a 10 Mt to 100 Mt Starship that is also a Class A or B starport.  A truely
> > mobile starport.
> What's it's purpose?  The vehicle will be at least as expensive as an entire
> numbered fleet, so you'll need a good rationale for it to be built.  To make
> it, you'll need to tie up the entire yard of a large pop-A world for several
> years as well.

Mostly, I was thinking about how ships in warfare might not be able to be
repaired at a shipyard you have just taken because of battle damage, plus,
it would make a great adventure idea.  One of the 3Is mobile starports have
been stolen & the players have got to find it & take it back.

> In TNE, at least, you'll need to be aware of surface area limitations. The
> jump drive requires surface area.  As ship volume increases, it turns out
> that surface area needed by the jump drive rises faster than the increase
> in surface area; there's a limit on how big a jump-capable starship can be
> built because of this.  For a sphere, the worst case, a jump-6 drive uses
> up all the surface area on a hull 256 meters long (636,000 tons).  A jump-1
> drive uses up all the surface area on a hull 900 meters long (27 million
> tons).  You can avoid this for a while by selecting a non-spherical
> configuration, but eventually you'll run up against it again.  I haven't
> looked at FFS2, but this probably also is true in T4.

Don't know much about TNE, I use MT.

> Considering how expensive the jump drive is, you'll probably want to put
> in the smallest one you can that still works for the port's mission.

I was thinking about a Jump-1.

>   -- Steve Bonneville

Legate Legion, Militant Jewish Terrorist
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"The system does not matter, its ROLE-Playing that matters." - Me to
Acid_Blue, Chuckles, & Rob the Lumberjackman.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 11:25:44 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Mobile Starports

> From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
> >Just a thought here, but you people have been talking about mobile
> >starports via water, but what about mobile starports that are large
ships. 
> >What I was thinking about putting in my game is somthing along the lines
of
> >a 10 Mt to 100 Mt Starship that is also a Class A or B starport.  A
truely
> >mobile starport.
> I would suggest that for this, you might want to try one of those lab
ships...

Thought about it, but I want something Large & well defended, able to build
& repair ships, while at the same time about to move about freely.

> Kurt Feltenberger

Legate Legion, Militant Jewish Terrorist
Cult 'O Gabe's Holy Avenger in charge of Military Afairs
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"The system does not matter, its ROLE-Playing that matters." - Me to
Acid_Blue, Chuckles, & Rob the Lumberjackman.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 12:43:24 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)

Legate Legion wrote:

> Well, one of the reasons a Mecha are better than Grav-Tanks at least in my
> mind is the fact that they can have more weapons pointing in the same
> direction.  That gives me a sort of a pause, plus think about it this way,
> you are a common, average, everyday soldier & one day as you go out to
> fight, you see a 40' tall mechanical giant.  What would you do?

Hunker down behind the hill, sneak around to the back, and blow the hell
out o one of the mecha's knees with a LAW. Once it's down, stick a
satchel charge in it's ear and kill it.

Get it running toward me and that antitank mine I've conveniently put in
it's path.

Get it running toward me and that trip cable I've got strung up.

Call in an artillery strike.

Call in an air strike.

On the other hand, grav tanks, which are _much_ better described as
"Apache Helicopters From Hell" would give me nightmares...

'Don't run...you'll only die tired'
> Maybe, in some situations, but there are some that Mecha would be better.
> City combat, forest combat, etc.  As for putting a 50mm AC in a mecha, are
> you nuts.  Plasma Weapons.  High Damage, no ammo to carry.

Actually, yes, ammo to carry.(look up plasma weapons in FFS or
FFS2...they have cartridges that are used as 'ammo') 

A small grav tank will fit perfectly well into city warfare, and the
forest that will allow your 40' giant room to run around in is not much
of a forest, actually. Lots of space for grav vehicles to get in there.

In a city, you can have literally thousands of ground troops scattered
throughout the buildings with anti-tank weapons. Mecha will get
slaughtered in that environment...they'll be in a crossfire from
somewhere _all_ the time.

Ground troops will run for hidey holes too small for the mech to look
into, and rig snifty items like triplines. Remember Luke taking out the
Imperial Walker? that is a rather good tactic to use. A mech, with it's
forward facing and bipedal stance, can't turn that quickly; a decent
grav vehicle will run rings around it, and that is the name of the game
for close in air support, boyo. Your mechas are dead, dead, dead.

Don't EVEN get me started on what meson artillery will do to them.

The reason they win in cartoons and mecha games is that the rules have
been changed to make it so they do win.

_human_ sized mecha...AKA battledress is another thing entirely.

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 20:14:29 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Tech Levels of Alien Races\M0 regression algorhythms

Is there any information on TL for Alien Races across the Milieux?

Rob Prior is working on some software for system generation (Imperial Grand
Survey 2) which is planned to support system generation for Traveller
campaigns.

To help with this...

a) can anyone give TL attainment dates for alien races? (so we can cap
development in certain Milieux)..

b) does anyone know what the algorhythm used to regress from CT to M0 was?

Thanks

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #685
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Saturday, July 25 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 686



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Mecha in Traveller
Re: Meson Communications - Used as a weapon?
Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)
Re: Re AntiGravity
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #683
Re: Hi tech combat
Re: Mobile Starports
M:IW still more sector updates
Re: Hi tech combat
Re: Mobile Starports
Re:GURPS: Traveller is off!
Re: Sort of off-topic but not quite....
Re: Mecha (was Re: Traveller GEEZER Club...)
Re: Hi tech combat
Re: M:IW still more sector updates
Re Mecha
[T98#685] GURPS: Traveller is off!
Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 17:19:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Macpherson <john35@wharton.upenn.edu>
Subject: Re: Mecha in Traveller

 
"Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com> wrote:
> > The real question is; 'why make them at all'.  Battlemechs/Mecha/etc are
> > fun in a game sense, but from a military and tactical standpoint they are
> > too fragile to outweigh their value as weapons platforms.  Traveller,
> being
> > a 'hard science' game, doesn't really have room for battlemechs in any
> > 'real' battles. 
>
> Maybe, in some situations, but there are some that Mecha would be better. 
> City combat, forest combat, etc.  As for putting a 50mm AC in a mecha, are
> you nuts.  Plasma Weapons.  High Damage, no ammo to carry.

	Have you figured the ground pressure a mech would put on its 
feet?  They'd be confined to starport tarmacs and bedrock because they'd 
sink in anything else.  The M1A2, the heaviest modern tank, has a ground 
pressure (mass/SA of tracks) of something like 6.5 tons/m^2.  Anything 
more than that and it would wallow like a pig in muddy or loose ground.
	Even if you came up with a material that was so light and so 
strong that it made mechs feasible, that material would still be better 
employed on a tank.

- -JM

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 15:48:29 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Meson Communications - Used as a weapon?

At 12:03 am 7/24/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Leonard Erikson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Nope. Consider the difference between a laser comm unit and a weapons
>grade laser.
>
>For communications *microwatts* is an acceptable signal strength at
the
>target. For weapons, you need Megawatts. That's a difference of 12
>orders of magnitude (ie 10^12 or one quadrillion).
>
>The communicator just doesn't have the power.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>There are many sensor and communication devices that are dangerous,
>though. Notice the "Laser Source" warning on your CD-ROM drive
>innards? Not to mention the way a radar dish can cook an unprotected
>person pretty quickly.
>
>They mention this in the "Smoke Test" chapter of _Arrival
Vengeance_,
>btw...a static discharge fries the commo unit and maneuver pack of
>a crewman doing a hull inspection, Arrival Vengeance can't turn on
her
>sensor suite to find the drifting Starman because the sensors will
surely
>fry the guy as soon as they find him.
>
>Hmmm - what effect does a several-AUrange radar dish have when swept
>across a boarding party in battle dress at a range of a few meters,
at full
>power? Sometimes it can _suck_ to be a Marine...
>
>Anyway, He's not talking about using a Meson communicator to blow
someone's head off, just cause a heart palpitation or seizure -
effects
>that, properly placed, could be done with millivolts of energy. The
only
>problem is targeting - how do you blip the fifty-third neuron on the
>left with a meson commo pulse inside a moving soldier?

	IIRC (I don't have my books open), the meson comm doesn't have the
exact targeting that a weapon has. Rather than trying to cause the
mesons to decay at the receiver, you send a beam *through* the
receiver, where a spin-off of the meson screen causes them to decay.
You don't have to have nearly the range accuracy that you do for a
weapon.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 15:56:21 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)

At 11:19 am 7/24/98 -0700, you wrote:
>> From: Peter H. Brenton <pbrenton@mit.edu>
>Well, one of the reasons a Mecha are better than Grav-Tanks at least in my
>mind is the fact that they can have more weapons pointing in the same
>direction.  

	How do you figure that?

>you are a common, average, everyday soldier & one day as you go out to
>fight, you see a 40' tall mechanical giant.  What would you do?

	Drop on the ground laughing, then blow out any of the leg joints.
That's a major vulnerability right there that grav tanks don't have.
And that's assuming the silly thing hasn't already sunk into the
ground from its large ground pressure.

>Maybe, in some situations, but there are some that Mecha would be better. 
>City combat, forest combat, etc.  As for putting a 50mm AC in a mecha, are
>you nuts.  Plasma Weapons.  High Damage, no ammo to carry.

	Pleas explain how a large, clumsy, 40' humanoid in a city or forest
and having it try to operate in the restricted environment is more
efficient than a grav tank, which for the same weaponry is going to
be much smaller and maneuverable ...

- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 13:02:23 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re AntiGravity

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
> ...
>> >> > on the outside, an object sitting in the center will be thrown upwards
>> >> > with great force, but anyone inside wouldn't feel a thing.
>> >
>> > Pumping high gravity fluid through the torroid won't do that since the
>> > torroid would presumably be filled with this fluid.
>> 
>> Re-read the above. The fluid is being pumped thru pipes *wrapped
>> around* the toroid. And the effects are due to the *acceleration* of
>> the fluid, not merely the motion. So you have to operate in a "pulse
>> mode, as the fluid rapidly approaches c!
>
> It looks like the thing that would keep this from working from a physics
> standpoint is the mass of the apparatus generating the repulsive field. 
> Even if the liquid could be rapidly pushed to c, it's own apparent mass
> would create more attraction than repulsion.  

It's the *attraction* that's generating the "push", or rather the
*change* in attraction.

The problems with this design are purely engineering. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 13:05:48 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #683

In mail you write:

> I just wanted to let everyone know that I've enjoyed my time reading
> the Traveller-Digest and that I will miss being able to read it in a
> couple of weeks. I will be ending my account with Ozemail and moving
> to Thursday Island, where sadly it cost $12/hr for email privileges,
> when available.

What are the phone numbers there like (in international format)?

+61 ??? ?????

The reason I ask is that there may be some fidonet systems there, and
that might make it possible to route the list to you (if they are
willing to handle the extra traffic). It could easily be cheaper,
because fidonet links zip up even *mail* when bundling it for transfers
between systems. That cuts down transfer time drasticly.

Even if there *aren't* any fido systems, you might want to consider
becoming one, because then you can just use *regular* phone calls to
exchange data. You'd just have your system calling one on the mainland
once a day. At a guess, it'd take less than 5 minutes to send out all
your outgoing mail and receive all the incoming. Then you read and
reply *offline*. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 00:31:20
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Hi tech combat

>From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
>Subject: Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)
>
>On the other hand, grav tanks, which are _much_ better described as
>"Apache Helicopters From Hell" would give me nightmares...
>

Personally, I am a big fan of jeep-sized grav vehicles with a battery- or
cartridge-powered laser. The small size means they can hang out in packs,
and one of them will get a hit in on the big nasty grav tank.

Speaking of Apache helos, has anyone built any TL7 aircraft and helos ?
Famile Spofulam may have to go down-market, and re-equip some A-10s with
grav technology, and replace the nose mounted autocannon with a laser ...

>In a city, you can have literally thousands of ground troops scattered
>throughout the buildings with anti-tank weapons. Mecha will get
>slaughtered in that environment...they'll be in a crossfire from
>somewhere _all_ the time.
>

Actually, even when you fix the rules in favour of Mecha, traditional
troops can still win. Battletech doesnt allow aimed shots to be anywhere as
easy as they should be, but a combination of AC-2 armed aircraft and/or
helos, numerous infantry with command-detonated bombs as mines and adequate
artillery support deals with mecha but good. No expensive fusion engines, too.

>_human_ sized mecha...AKA battledress is another thing entirely.

I'm not even certain about that. The basic problem is man-portable
anti-tank weapons, whether Boys ATRs/crunch guns, Sagger or similar ATGWs
or the good old trusty bazooka or RPG. High tech armour is pretty wussy in
Traveller - TL12 superdense is a mere five times more weight efficient than
TL5 hard steel, which means battledress has to be pretty damn thick to
protect against anti-tank weapons impact.

If you are prepared to lose tactical mobility, some sort of mountain gun or
short-barrelled 30mm autocannon in concealment could have a role as well
(with cheap grav trucks, operational mobility isnt a problem).

To work, battledress needs some sort of integral anti-missile defense, or
conventional troops will pepper them with rocket-propelled grenades and
such. Sensor signatures could also be an issue - you could spoof the mark 1
eyeball with chameleon coatings and such, but powered armour needs a power
source, and that means IR and probably other emissions.

My suspicion is that the very long operational range of grav vehicles would
lead to ground warfare being much more like naval warfare - essentially,
mobile self contained task forces with no 'front' per se. Current armour
has an operational range of 100km or so, neccessitating a front to defend
rear-echelon supply and repair facilities. Grav tanks, especially fusion
powered grav tanks, dont have
these restrictions.

I suspect that ground troops will be in unpowered chameleon-coated sharpnel
proof armour, armed with rocket-propelled grenades and communicators to
call in support from the grav tanks and artillery (although given that
cluster bomblets make a nice mess of just about anyone under Striker, it is
actually possible that ground troops will just get a communicator, some
rockets and ballistic cloth armour. And an entrenching tool and a chameleon
blanket, of course).

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 16:21:35 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Mobile Starports

In mail you write:

> "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com> asked:
>
>> Just a thought here, but you people have been talking about mobile
>> starports via water, but what about mobile starports that are large ships. 
>> What I was thinking about putting in my game is somthing along the lines of
>> a 10 Mt to 100 Mt Starship that is also a Class A or B starport.  A truely
>> mobile starport.
>
> What's it's purpose?  The vehicle will be at least as expensive as an entire
> numbered fleet, so you'll need a good rationale for it to be built.  To make
> it, you'll need to tie up the entire yard of a large pop-A world for several
> years as well.

You need it as a repair yard close to the front during wars. And in
peacetime, it's useful for "bootstrapping" facilities on worlds in a
newly added territory. It might also be of use in disaster relief.
Consider the fun if your starport gets hit by a *major* natural
disaster. It could take months or even *years* to rebuild. So you
appeal to the Imperium, and they send one of these out to "fill in". 

> In TNE, at least, you'll need to be aware of surface area limitations.  The
> jump drive requires surface area.  As ship volume increases, it turns out 
> that surface area needed by the jump drive rises faster than the increase 
> in surface area; there's a limit on how big a jump-capable starship can be
> built because of this.  For a sphere, the worst case, a jump-6 drive uses
> up all the surface area on a hull 256 meters long (636,000 tons).  A jump-1
> drive uses up all the surface area on a hull 900 meters long (27 million
> tons).  You can avoid this for a while by selecting a non-spherical
> configuration, but eventually you'll run up against it again.  I haven't
> looked at FFS2, but this probably also is true in T4.

This is where "folding radiators" and weird things like "liquid drop
radiators" come in handy. The ship gets to the jump point, shuts down
all non-essential systems, deploys the radiators, and proceeds to start
up the jump drive. 

I seem to recall that the j-drive does most of the power-using stuff
getting *ready* to jump. If you work it that way, you would want to
design the radiators to retract "fast" (ie in less than the 15-30
minutes you can keep the ship on the edge of jump safely). That way,
your displacement is back to normal before you enter jump.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 12:17:38 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: M:IW still more sector updates

Well I've now moved my sector maps for the Interstellar Wars on to the end of 
the 3rd War, so that's the entire "early period" covered. I've uploaded the new 
zip file (now 114Kb) to my site (URL below). I might slow down now for a bit.

<http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/intwars/IWships.htm>

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 17:22:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Hi tech combat

Ian or Katts writes:
> >_human_ sized mecha...AKA battledress is another thing entirely.
> 
> I'm not even certain about that. The basic problem is man-portable
> anti-tank weapons, whether Boys ATRs/crunch guns, Sagger or similar ATGWs
> or the good old trusty bazooka or RPG. High tech armour is pretty wussy in
> Traveller - TL12 superdense is a mere five times more weight efficient than
> TL5 hard steel, which means battledress has to be pretty damn thick to
> protect against anti-tank weapons impact.
Yah, but as long as it protects from smallarms you're gaining something.  The
basic mission for powered body armor isn't being a tank, it's allowing infantry
to carry NBC protection, thermal masking, protection against fragmentation and
smallarms, and a standard mission load, without falling over gasping from
exhaustion.  Make that cheap enough (well-trained infantry costs something like
100k, so if 100k PBA can double their effectiveness you're doing OK), and it's
easily an advantage in infantry missions, which are usually in very complex
terrain (such as cities), where at least 90% of shots aren't going to hit
anything anyway (with suppression fire, make than 99.8% or so).  Anti-armor
munitions are usually too heavy to use for suppression fire, and are a weight
problem even as a standard semi-auto weapon.
> 
> To work, battledress needs some sort of integral anti-missile defense, or
> conventional troops will pepper them with rocket-propelled grenades and
> such. Sensor signatures could also be an issue - you could spoof the mark 1
> eyeball with chameleon coatings and such, but powered armour needs a power
> source, and that means IR and probably other emissions.
Remember, a human is a 100-200w IR source.  Powered armor could easily have a
lower signature than a human.
> 
> I suspect that ground troops will be in unpowered chameleon-coated sharpnel
> proof armour, armed with rocket-propelled grenades and communicators to
> call in support from the grav tanks and artillery (although given that
> cluster bomblets make a nice mess of just about anyone under Striker, it is
> actually possible that ground troops will just get a communicator, some
> rockets and ballistic cloth armour. And an entrenching tool and a chameleon
> blanket, of course).

Powered battle dress with gauss rifles could probably slaughter huge numbers of
such troops.  It depends a lot on the price/reliability of powered battle
dress, though --it probably isn't worth more than about a 5:1 force advantage.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 20:35:56 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: Mobile Starports

At 04:21 PM 7/24/98 -0800, you wrote:
>In mail you write:
>This is where "folding radiators" and weird things like "liquid drop
>radiators" come in handy. The ship gets to the jump point, shuts down
>all non-essential systems, deploys the radiators, and proceeds to start
>up the jump drive. 
>
>I seem to recall that the j-drive does most of the power-using stuff
>getting *ready* to jump. If you work it that way, you would want to
>design the radiators to retract "fast" (ie in less than the 15-30
>minutes you can keep the ship on the edge of jump safely). That way,
>your displacement is back to normal before you enter jump.

What is the displacement volume difference if they were folded or deployed?

Kurt Feltenberger

“We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a
habit.”
- --- Aristotle ---

mailto:kurt@blazenet.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 20:00:43 -0600
From: "Jeremy Reaban" <frankpul@stlnet.com>
Subject: Re:GURPS: Traveller is off!

Yikes! In the future, you might want to choose a better phrase (or fill it
in better). When I first read the topics (I get the digest version), my
heart skipped the beat. 'Gurps Traveller is Off!', makes it sound like it
was cancelled or something.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 17:11:37 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Sort of off-topic but not quite....

In mail you write:

> Apple's now offering MPW for free download, which means...at
> last...there is a freely available C and C++ compiler for the mac. While
> the MPW is a primitive programming environment compared to Metrowerks
> (so I'm told), it would work to get Q&D ports to the Mac.

I don't "do" C. I'd be interested in a Pascal (prefereably Turbo Pascal
compatible) or a BASIC. And an assembler would be nice too, though I'm
sure I can find a free 68000 assembler on the net. It'd be the
interface libraries that'd be the problem. That and the fact that I
prefer to program in a high level language and reserve assembler for
places where it improves performance (or where it lets me work around
language/OS limitations).

So, anybody know of a *free* Pascal or BASIC that'll run on a Mac Plus?
How about a *really* cheap one?

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 16:35:27 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Mecha (was Re: Traveller GEEZER Club...)

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson writes:
>> 
>> Mecha aren't workable at *any* TL. They violate the square-cube law
>> (which is based on *geometry*, rather than physics, so forget the
>> arguments about "maybe the law is wrong").
>
> Um...wrong.  If you double the strength of materials (without
> doubling the weight) you can construct an object of twice the linear
> size.  You can build mecha, you just need materials with higher
> strength to weight ratios than human flesh and bone.  This is not
> actually all that hard, you could build medium sized armored mecha
> (battletech-sized) with TL 7 materials, though they'd be breakdown
> prone and you'd need better control technology than is available at
> TL 7.

It's actually a lot harder than you think. Human bone (when fresh, as
opposed to dried out) is stronger than steel by quite a bit. That's one
of the big problems with building joint replacements. 

And there are limits to material strength. Buckytubes look to be about
as strong as you can get. And they aren't *that* much stronger than
graphite (carbon) fiber.

> Now, the really super-sized mecha are a problem with the square-cube
> law, but a battletech sized mech (which is less than ten meters tall,
> and tends to be rather squat) isn't really that bad.

At 10 meters tall it's 5 times the size of a man. And a 2 meter tall
"mech" (read protype robot) that's as strong as a human is pretty squat
to begin with. So unless you can come up with something 5 times as
strong for the same weight, it's gonna be ugly.

> Which is not to say that mecha are a _good_ idea at any TL --
> compared to a comparable tank, a mecha will be (a) less armored,
> particularly on the front (a human-sized object has far more area
> which needs to be armored), and (b) have a much higher profile,
> making it significantly easier to spot and shoot at.

The only "mecha-like" device that the military has ever shown any
interest in was the "walking truck". Which has four legs, and a low
profile. 

It'll be interesting to see if when such a thing is finally put in
service it uses 4 legs and is "directly" controlled by the driver's
arms and legs, or if it has 6 (or more legs) and is controlled by a
joystick input to a neural net adopted from insects.

I rather suspect the latter. And in fact, it might be possible to have
semi-autonomous "trucks" that follow the course track they are given.
For example, picture something the size of a large dog or a pony (but
lower to the ground) that can cross a battlefield to resupply troops
who are pinned down. 

If such a unit gets hit, no problem, just send another. You can salvage
it when the lines advance enough. If you have to retreat, destroy it in
passing. 

But having "rover" delivering fresh ammo and other supplies (MRE's,
medical gear, etc) could be a common sight. Each squad might have a few
attached to it. They could lug extra gear on patrol, and be sent back
for resupply without reducing the combat strength of the unit.
Obviously, they need some sort of "homing" method. Given that they'd be
based on insect models, scent markers might be good. But spread
spectrum radio would work too. Probably a combo of inertial guidance
(to record the path they've followed so they can retrace it), scent
markers, and radio for cases where you *don't* want it retracing it's
path, or taking a "direct" route would be used.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 21:17:18 -0400
From: Joseph Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Hi tech combat

>
>
> Actually, even when you fix the rules in favour of Mecha, traditional
> troops can still win. Battletech doesnt allow aimed shots to be anywhere as
> easy as they should be, but a combination of AC-2 armed aircraft and/or
> helos, numerous infantry with command-detonated bombs as mines and adequate
> artillery support deals with mecha but good. No expensive fusion engines, too.

Although I've never tested it, I thought it would be neat to fully load a heavy
mech with machine guns.  Something on the order of a hundred guns going off at
once.  You gotta expect at least ONE will be a golden BB. The trick is getting
into range.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 19:11:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Mixon <tlmixon@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: M:IW still more sector updates

- ---Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz> wrote:

> Well I've now moved my sector maps for the Interstellar Wars on to
>the end of 
> the 3rd War, so that's the entire "early period" covered. I've
>uploaded the new 
> zip file (now 114Kb) to my site (URL below). I might slow down now
>for a bit.
> 
> <http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/intwars/IWships.htm>

  Tried to check it out. Got the following message.

403 Forbidden
File for URL /amv/trav/intwars/IWships.htm> exists but cannot be
opened. May be open for writing or otherwise locked.

  Looks like the end bracket got included in the address space. Works
fine without it.
 
Terry
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 18:43:30 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re Mecha

>
>I have a question here, but what TL would Mecha be?  What TL would
>BattleMechs be?  I have a player who whats to create the VF-1 from Macross
>& use it as a fighter.  Just wondering what the Old Geezers would say...
>

Non-transformable mecha are <looks in MT Ref's Manual- design sequences>
TL8+, for leg transmissions. So that Raidar X and Mac II  are around TL10,
due to the small fusion plants. Under FF&S1, works much the same. FF&S2,
you need Fusion+.

I'd put transformable mecha around TL 15... simply due to materials tech.
But this is just a SWAG.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 03:23:34 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: [T98#685] GURPS: Traveller is off!

On Fri, 24 Jul 1998 16:16:57 -0400, John Kovalic
<muskrat@msn.fullfeed.com> wrote:

>>From the Daily Illuminator list:

>SJ Games News: GURPS Traveller To Press

>   By the skin of our teeth, GURPS Traveller made it out of here today,
>   one day behind schedule. It was almost two days . . . I got in the FedEx
>   door at 9:29:57 or so, just as they were closing it. Every time that
>   happens, I say "Gotta QUIT this!"

>   So it will PROBABLY still make it to the stores by mid-September; we
>   now need for the printer not to have any problems, because we have used
>   up our slack. Watch this space for updates.

Damn, John!  What in tarnation are you doing posting _this_ under
_that_ subject - I saw it in the list and nearly had a heart
attack - was SJG _killing_ my beloved Traveller?

Pull something like this again, and I will have no choice but to
pronounce a major malediction on you!

- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 00:37:17 -0400
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)

Bruce Johnson wrote:

>Hunker down behind the hill, sneak around to the back, and blow the hell
>out o one of the mecha's knees with a LAW. Once it's down, stick a
>satchel charge in it's ear and kill it.

   Wouldn't build a mecha without a damn good IR sensor suite and lots of
anti-personnel weaponry.  Get within 50 meters and you're swiss cheese.

>Get it running toward me and that antitank mine I've conveniently put in
>it's path.

   This is a problem for all ground based vehicles.  On the other hand,
grav vehicles must be careful not to fly above terrain features for too
long or they meet a similar fate.

>Get it running toward me and that trip cable I've got strung up.

   Then again there are those wonderful mines that fire straight up through
the belly of a grav vehicle as it flies overhead...

>Call in an artillery strike.
>
>Call in an air strike.

   Dangers to everything on the battlefield.

>On the other hand, grav tanks, which are _much_ better described as
>"Apache Helicopters From Hell" would give me nightmares...

   Grav vehicles are indeed superior to mecha, but only because they give
you superior operational mobility (they can go anywhere you can fly, and
they can almost always get there faster) and armor protection (mecha
generally have thinner armor because thick armor makes them too slow).

>'Don't run...you'll only die tired'
>> Maybe, in some situations, but there are some that Mecha would be better.
>> City combat, forest combat, etc.  As for putting a 50mm AC in a mecha, are
>> you nuts.  Plasma Weapons.  High Damage, no ammo to carry.
>
>Actually, yes, ammo to carry.(look up plasma weapons in FFS or
>FFS2...they have cartridges that are used as 'ammo') 

   OK then lasers.  I'd still like to have some .5 or so Mj plasma or
fusion weapons of the quad barrel, rapid fire variety to take care of those
pesty roaches (guys in battledress).

>A small grav tank will fit perfectly well into city warfare, and the
>forest that will allow your 40' giant room to run around in is not much
>of a forest, actually. Lots of space for grav vehicles to get in there.

   My mecha look more like spiders--low to the ground and about the size of
a grav tank or smaller.  Two legged artifical giant samurai just aren't
practical.

>In a city, you can have literally thousands of ground troops scattered
>throughout the buildings with anti-tank weapons. Mecha will get
>slaughtered in that environment...they'll be in a crossfire from
>somewhere _all_ the time.

   This would also be true of any vehicle.

>Ground troops will run for hidey holes too small for the mech to look
>into, and rig snifty items like triplines. Remember Luke taking out the
>Imperial Walker? that is a rather good tactic to use. 

   Make a town too much trouble and the mecha will flatten it.  Hiding
amongst the ruins they would be rather formidable though admittedly they
would have to lie in ambush for any passing grav vehicles and then clear
out or face the same problem the infantry did.

   Also, tripping a spider-like mecha would be darn near impossible.  All
your infantry are going to accomplish is pissing off the drivers.

>A mech, with it's
>forward facing and bipedal stance, can't turn that quickly; a decent
>grav vehicle will run rings around it, and that is the name of the game
>for close in air support, boyo. Your mechas are dead, dead, dead.

   A spider-like configuration would be extremely difficult to get around on.

>Don't EVEN get me started on what meson artillery will do to them.

   Or to a grav vehicle...

>The reason they win in cartoons and mecha games is that the rules have
>been changed to make it so they do win.

   That's because 11-20 year olds like to see giant artifical samurai going
at it at close range.  There are actually hand-to-hand weapons for mecha in
Battletech--something even I find totally silly.  

>_human_ sized mecha...AKA battledress is another thing entirely.

   Battledress equipped troops are excellent for shock value and can wipe
out non-armored infantry equipped with gauss rifles (or lesser weapons).
The problem is that when they run into enemy troops that have rapid fire
energy weapons at their disposal, battledress equipped troops die just as
fast as the non-battledress equipped formations.  A proper high tech army
would have mix of armored and non-armored troops, grav vehicles, and
support vehicles.  Mecha?  Not in anything resembling the Battletech or
Star Wars style.  Mecha are probably going to be support vehicles,
spider-like and (if you are using FF&S I) capable of short duration flight
through Heplar thrusters (this would increase their operational
effectiveness dramatically), and armed to the teeth with a variety of
ordinance and sensors--they aren't intended to stand toe to toe with a main
battle tank (grav or otherwise) but can kill one if they get a chance.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #686
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Saturday, July 25 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 687



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Hi tech combat
Re: Mobile Starports
Re: Mobile Starports
M:IW sector update
Re: Mobile Starports
Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)
[OT] Re:  Pascal compilers for the Mac
Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)
Battlefield remote munitions delivery
Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**
Re: Mecha
Basic for the Mac
Hi tech combat
Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)
Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 21:17:49 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Hi tech combat

In mail you write:

> Ian or Katts writes:
>> To work, battledress needs some sort of integral anti-missile defense, or
>> conventional troops will pepper them with rocket-propelled grenades and
>> such. Sensor signatures could also be an issue - you could spoof the mark 1
>> eyeball with chameleon coatings and such, but powered armour needs a power
>> source, and that means IR and probably other emissions.

> Remember, a human is a 100-200w IR source.  Powered armor could easily have a
> lower signature than a human.

Nope. Because it *still* has to radiate that 100-200W or else the
trooper inside fries in his own juices. *Plus* it needs to get rid of
the energy generated by the power plant. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 21:09:57 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Mobile Starports

In mail you write:

> At 04:21 PM 7/24/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>>This is where "folding radiators" and weird things like "liquid drop
>>radiators" come in handy. The ship gets to the jump point, shuts down
>>all non-essential systems, deploys the radiators, and proceeds to start
>>up the jump drive.=20
>>
>>I seem to recall that the j-drive does most of the power-using stuff
>>getting *ready* to jump. If you work it that way, you would want to
>>design the radiators to retract "fast" (ie in less than the 15-30
>>minutes you can keep the ship on the edge of jump safely). That way,
>>your displacement is back to normal before you enter jump.
>
> What is the displacement volume difference if they were folded or
> deployed?

Quite a bit if they fold out from recesses in the hull. Also, by proper
design, the channels for the working fluid can be collapsible so as to
save space when folded.

Say that when deployed they are *only* 10 cm thick. That means that
very 100 square meters of radiator is .74 displacement tons. Then
figure how many 100s of square meters you nedd for that huge ship.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 01:23:17 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: Mobile Starports

At 09:09 PM 7/24/98 -0800, you wrote:
>In mail you write:
>> What is the displacement volume difference if they were folded or
>> deployed?
>
>Quite a bit if they fold out from recesses in the hull. Also, by proper
>design, the channels for the working fluid can be collapsible so as to
>save space when folded.
>
>Say that when deployed they are *only* 10 cm thick. That means that
>very 100 square meters of radiator is .74 displacement tons. Then
>figure how many 100s of square meters you nedd for that huge ship.

Maybe I'm missing something in the change from MT to the current flavor of
design, folded or not, they have the same volume.  

Was there a change from MT to FFSv.X?

Not nitpicking, just curious.

thanks

Kurt Feltenberger
kurt@blazenet.net



http://www.igateway.com/clients/kurt/mp  Morrow Project Site

http://www.igateway.com/clients/kurt/pj PJ the Welsh Terrier Site

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 18:28:28 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: M:IW sector update

I've taken some of the draft notes from my Prometheus Rising work and added 
them into the sector maps so that they actually start to make some sense.

Please note that these are:
   a) Completely unofficial
   b) Only a small part of the work
   c) Still very much in draft form, needing serious editing work and liable to
      change before the thing is finished.

However I hope people find them useful and would very much appreciate any 
feedback good, bad or otherwise (hint hint hint).

The file (now 133Kb) can be found at

< http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/intwars/iwships.htm >

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 22:51:45 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Mobile Starports

In mail you write:

> At 09:09 PM 7/24/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>>> What is the displacement volume difference if they were folded or
>>> deployed?
>>
>>Quite a bit if they fold out from recesses in the hull. Also, by proper
>>design, the channels for the working fluid can be collapsible so as to
>>save space when folded.
>>
>>Say that when deployed they are *only* 10 cm thick. That means that
>>very 100 square meters of radiator is .74 displacement tons. Then
>>figure how many 100s of square meters you nedd for that huge ship.
>
> Maybe I'm missing something in the change from MT to the current flavor of
> design, folded or not, they have the same volume.  

No they don't. Remember, volume includes *enclosed* space. So for
example, if the fluid channels fold flat when not in use, they they
take up less space than when they are deployed and said channels are
opened into pipes.


Flat: =======

        /\
Open: /    \
      \    /
        \/


And if they just fold into slots in the hull, the volume of the slots
counts even when the "fins" are extended. 

> Was there a change from MT to FFSv.X?

No idea. This is a simple matter of *geometry*. A cargo bay counts as
volume whether it is full or empty. So a similar "bay" that the
radiators fold into still counts even when the radiators are unfolded
and outside the ship. But at that point the volume of the *extended*
radiators *also* counts.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 23:36:44 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)

> > Well, one of the reasons a Mecha are better than Grav-Tanks at least in
my
> > mind is the fact that they can have more weapons pointing in the same
> > direction.  That gives me a sort of a pause, plus think about it this
way,
> > you are a common, average, everyday soldier & one day as you go out to
> > fight, you see a 40' tall mechanical giant.  What would you do?
> Hunker down behind the hill, sneak around to the back, and blow the hell
> out o one of the mecha's knees with a LAW. Once it's down, stick a
> satchel charge in it's ear and kill it.

Anti-Personnel Cluster Charge with Motion Detectors.  Say bye-bye to one
guy with a LAW, but then you can kill a tank with this same tactic, so what
is your point.

> Get it running toward me and that antitank mine I've conveniently put in
> it's path.

Same here, another Anti-Tank Tactic.

> Get it running toward me and that trip cable I've got strung up.

Same here.

> Call in an artillery strike.

Same here.

> Call in an air strike.

Same here.

> On the other hand, grav tanks, which are _much_ better described as
> "Apache Helicopters From Hell" would give me nightmares...

You might like to see what I am thinking about for the Mecha.

> 'Don't run...you'll only die tired'

Good way to die, in bed.

> Bruce Johnson

Legate Legion, Militant Jewish Terrorist
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"The system does not matter, its ROLE-Playing that matters." - Me to
Acid_Blue, Chuckles, & Rob the Lumberjackman.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 15:28:32 +0800
From: "Michael Bailey" <mickb@opera.iinet.net.au>
Subject: [OT] Re:  Pascal compilers for the Mac

Try http://tfdec1.fys.kuleuven.ac.be/~michael/fpc/

I don't know if it supports the Mac yet, but they say that the compiler
supports 680x0 processors.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 00:49:23 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)

..
>you are a common, average, everyday soldier & one day as you go out to
>fight, you see a 40' tall mechanical giant.  What would you do?

  Laugh (from behind hard cover, admittedly).

  Almost anything can be rationalized (I certainly have with `mechs, just
not on this list), but you can't change their target/armour profile; they
simply can't be anywhere near as survivable for warfare as we (and the OTU)
understand it, using Trav materials.

  Which doesn't change their availability for essentially non-combat uses.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 00:50:09 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Battlefield remote munitions delivery

>I rather suspect the latter. And in fact, it might be possible to have
>semi-autonomous "trucks" that follow the course track they are given.
>For example, picture something the size of a large dog or a pony (but
>lower to the ground) that can cross a battlefield to resupply troops
>who are pinned down. 
>
>If such a unit gets hit, no problem, just send another. You can salvage
>it when the lines advance enough. If you have to retreat, destroy it in
>passing. 

  IIRC the Germans had something like this in WW II; find a suppressed
element and send up a supply of munitions via remote controlled crawler.
I believe it was called Goliath.

  OC, they only tried to do it to the enemy...  :>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 00:36:15 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**

 "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net> wrote:

>	I'm just [a] lazy (email/web ordering rocks!), and [b] several hours
>off of normal office hours for UK, and [c] too cheap to pick up the
>phone ... Frankly, sending them my CC info via email is just as
>insecure as giving it over the phone, or handing my card to a clerk
>in a store

But I think that the requirement is from their CC company. Why not fax them
if you've got the modem at home?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 04:02:51 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mecha

Ian Whitechurch writes:
>>_human_ sized mecha...AKA battledress is another thing entirely.
>
>I'm not even certain about that. The basic problem is man-portable
>anti-tank weapons, whether Boys ATRs/crunch guns, Sagger or similar ATGWs
>or the good old trusty bazooka or RPG. High tech armour is pretty wussy in
>Traveller - TL12 superdense is a mere five times more weight efficient than
>TL5 hard steel, which means battledress has to be pretty damn thick to
>protect against anti-tank weapons impact.

Actually, Battledress, IMTU, is NOT intended for survival against anti-tank
weapons. Rather, the useage tends to be in the anti-infantry role, and in
the equivalent of light armor-cav: fast attacks against non-heavy targets.

I use BD and Combat armors as the equivalent of APC's/AFV's (as the terms
are used in modern US military parlance): a means to get infantry to
survive long enough to fight AFTER the heavy armor, AIr Support, and Arty
wipe out the obvious hard targets, but before "REAL INFANTRY" can move in
to mop up and control the area. I also have them used in arreas where the
hard shell protects against expected possible blast/fragmentation and
hostile environments, especially starport tarmac.

I also use the bounce infantry concept: Grav-mobile battlesuits with some
anti-tank weapons carried, for fast, high speed, high dispersion rapid
response. Since the BD-14 and BD-15 units can use the FGMP-14, and integral
grav belts, and give the user a useful operational day of nearly 18-20
hours,  bounce infantry scout units are fast, efficient (they can make more
out of terrain than any other hardened unit), and carry sensors equivalent
to most light AFV's, they can flesh out the light recon BEAUTIFULLY.

IME, IMTU, Battle Dress and Combat armors at TL13+ are fairly resistant to
most small arms fire (enough that it extends the combat lifespan from under
a minute to around 5 minutes in large engagements). This is based upon
experience with both TNE and MT, and under MT both the large scale and
personal scale combat systems. They are just as subject to annihilation by
armor when directly targeted as unarmored infantry. Danger-space secondary
effects are MUCH reduced; non-direct targeting is unlikely to actually take
out BD armored troops, whilst being able to anihilate unarmored infantry.

[still IMTU:] This "Secondary Effect Damage Reduction" makes a small cadre
of BD troops very useful in most ground ops where there is some cover. The
Regiments of Armored Infantry in the imperial marines are specifically
beach-head-establishment units, and as scout units for theater operations,
but not the mainstay of the battle lines. Grav Armor, and grav-mobile leg
infantry (Grav APC mobile) are the bulk of the line troops in MTU's
Imperial Military.

In short, use the equipment for what it does best, not what it was designed
for! No amount of armor will make a Battlesuit the equivalent of a Tank.

Anthony Jackson Writes:
>> I suspect that ground troops will be in unpowered chameleon-coated sharpnel
>> proof armour, armed with rocket-propelled grenades and communicators to
>> call in support from the grav tanks and artillery (although given that
>> cluster bomblets make a nice mess of just about anyone under Striker, it is
>> actually possible that ground troops will just get a communicator, some
>> rockets and ballistic cloth armour. And an entrenching tool and a chameleon
>> blanket, of course).
>
>Powered battle dress with gauss rifles could probably slaughter huge
>numbers of
>such troops.  It depends a lot on the price/reliability of powered battle
>dress, though --it probably isn't worth more than about a 5:1 force advantage.
>
under MT, I have found BD-14 with Gauss Rifle superior to TL-10 CES with
Gauss Rifles by over 10:1...when 100 troopers in BD take on 1500 in CES
using the SAME weapons system, With the BD being elites and the CES troops
being borderline veterans, already entrenched in the city ruins. Troop
levels assumed using the skill levels based upon AHL/Striker standards.

In TNE: A PC was knocked unconscious while wearing BD-12. THe PC was KO'd
by a M60 from T2K weapons book- by the 1 pip per die effect. It took three
turns of full auto fire, using the rules as written (d6's for damage, no
sudden death), with most of the KO being faceplate hits. The PC was able to
get close enough to hand grenade the 60-gunner. The PC was hit with 1/2 of
all rounds fired by the m60; all shots were at Close range for the M60, as
the combat was aboard a ship.



William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 04:10:14 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Basic for the Mac

>
>So, anybody know of a *free* Pascal or BASIC that'll run on a Mac Plus?
>How about a *really* cheap one?
>
>- --
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

Chipmunk Basic (freeware, IIRC) is a mumblesoft basic port (line numbers,
separate graphics window) for Mac and PowerMac. It also hase some
concessions to Applesoft compatability. Also supports some sprite
graphics... as well as morse code output.


SCBasic is freeware, Toolbox using, structured basic environment. NOT USER
FRIENDLY for coding toolbox calls, but powerful. Runs fine on 68040 and
68030; donkt know about 68000. Also FatBinary, IIRC. Has some problems with
the built-in (default) I/O windows... supports up to 20 separate code
files. Requires use of ResEdit or equivalent to create GUI components.
SCBasic is written in SCBasic. The SC stands for Self Compiled. I can't
find the Author's site, but I'll zip it up and send it direct if you want
it (and I can still find it on my PB).

Again, since my worst machine is an '030, I don't know how they will run on
your Mac+.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 00:35:18
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Hi tech combat

>From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
>Subject: Re: Hi tech combat
>
>Ian or Katts writes:
>> >_human_ sized mecha...AKA battledress is another thing entirely.
>> 
>Yah, but as long as it protects from smallarms you're gaining something.  The
>basic mission for powered body armor isn't being a tank, it's allowing
infantry
>to carry NBC protection, thermal masking, protection against fragmentation
and
>smallarms, and a standard mission load, without falling over gasping from
>exhaustion.  Make that cheap enough (well-trained infantry costs something
like
>100k, so if 100k PBA can double their effectiveness you're doing OK), and
it's
>easily an advantage in infantry missions, which are usually in very complex
>terrain (such as cities), where at least 90% of shots aren't going to hit
>anything anyway (with suppression fire, make than 99.8% or so).  Anti-armor
>munitions are usually too heavy to use for suppression fire, and are a weight
>problem even as a standard semi-auto weapon.

This comes down to doctrine, I think - essentially you have to move away
from 'spray it with lead' and towards more of a sniper mentality.

I would have to play with FFS2 to get a definitive answer, but I suspect
that you could build a fairly effective man-portable fusion bazooka. The
next question becomes what range to build it for ... a kilometer sounds
about right.

> 
>> To work, battledress needs some sort of integral anti-missile defense, or
>> conventional troops will pepper them with rocket-propelled grenades and
>> such. Sensor signatures could also be an issue - you could spoof the mark 1
>> eyeball with chameleon coatings and such, but powered armour needs a power
>> source, and that means IR and probably other emissions.
>Remember, a human is a 100-200w IR source.  Powered armor could easily have a
>lower signature than a human.

True, but a human would be easier to mask than a human plus power source.

We really need some hard numbers on the actual thickness, cost and so on of
Battle Dress at various TLs, so we can crunch out cost-effectivness of
countermeasures.

My long-forgotten Striker memories are also telling me about the
maintainence demand for battledress with all the toys - all those sensors
and electronics are creating a longer 'tail'.

>> 
>> I suspect that ground troops will be in unpowered chameleon-coated sharpnel
>> proof armour, armed with rocket-propelled grenades and communicators to
>> call in support from the grav tanks and artillery (although given that
>> cluster bomblets make a nice mess of just about anyone under Striker, it is
>> actually possible that ground troops will just get a communicator, some
>> rockets and ballistic cloth armour. And an entrenching tool and a chameleon
>> blanket, of course).
>
>Powered battle dress with gauss rifles could probably slaughter huge
numbers of
>such troops.  It depends a lot on the price/reliability of powered battle
>dress, though --it probably isn't worth more than about a 5:1 force
advantage.

The doctrine would be dig in, conceal and squeal for help when the
clamshells turn up. It's a defensive doctrine, but thats all anything
without 3cm of composite laminates should be doing anyway IMO.

>
>
>From: Joseph Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
>Subject: Re: Hi tech combat
>
>Although I've never tested it, I thought it would be neat to fully load a
heavy
>mech with machine guns.  Something on the order of a hundred guns going
off at
>once.  You gotta expect at least ONE will be a golden BB. The trick is
getting
>into range.

This has the problem that big meson-gun equipped low-gee waships have in
Traveller - if they get into range, they kill anything. But they cant get
into range, so they dont.

>
>From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@mindspring.com>
>Subject: Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)
>
>Bruce Johnson wrote:
>
>>Hunker down behind the hill, sneak around to the back, and blow the hell
>>out o one of the mecha's knees with a LAW. Once it's down, stick a
>>satchel charge in it's ear and kill it.
>
>   Wouldn't build a mecha without a damn good IR sensor suite and lots of
>anti-personnel weaponry.  Get within 50 meters and you're swiss cheese.
>

Modern LAWs go to a couple of hundred meters.

>
>>Get it running toward me and that trip cable I've got strung up.
>
>   Then again there are those wonderful mines that fire straight up through
>the belly of a grav vehicle as it flies overhead...
>

That works even better on mecha of all types.

>>Call in an artillery strike.
>>
>>Call in an air strike.
>
>   Dangers to everything on the battlefield.

If you are a grav tank, you can try and hide under trees. You also have
less surface area and are therefore harder to spot.

>
>>On the other hand, grav tanks, which are _much_ better described as
>>"Apache Helicopters From Hell" would give me nightmares...
>
>   Grav vehicles are indeed superior to mecha, but only because they give
>you superior operational mobility (they can go anywhere you can fly, and
>they can almost always get there faster) and armor protection (mecha
>generally have thinner armor because thick armor makes them too slow).
>

I think that sums up the grav/mecha correlation of forces quite well ...

>>'Don't run...you'll only die tired'
>>> Maybe, in some situations, but there are some that Mecha would be better.
>>> City combat, forest combat, etc.  As for putting a 50mm AC in a mecha, are
>>> you nuts.  Plasma Weapons.  High Damage, no ammo to carry.
>>
>>Actually, yes, ammo to carry.(look up plasma weapons in FFS or
>>FFS2...they have cartridges that are used as 'ammo') 
>
>   OK then lasers.  I'd still like to have some .5 or so Mj plasma or
>fusion weapons of the quad barrel, rapid fire variety to take care of those
>pesty roaches (guys in battledress).
>

Ummm, plasma guns dont have to use explosive power generators (and lasers
can use chemical cartridges), but it saves you from using massive volumes
of accumulators. Accumulators are the real bitch with energy weapons, the
actual weapon and power source arent the problem.

>>In a city, you can have literally thousands of ground troops scattered
>>throughout the buildings with anti-tank weapons. Mecha will get
>>slaughtered in that environment...they'll be in a crossfire from
>>somewhere _all_ the time.
>
>   This would also be true of any vehicle.
>

This is why tanks stay away from towns. Warsaw cost the German units
involved 25% of operation armour ... and that was against an enemy with
next to no anti-tank capability.

>>Ground troops will run for hidey holes too small for the mech to look
>>into, and rig snifty items like triplines. Remember Luke taking out the
>>Imperial Walker? that is a rather good tactic to use. 
>
>   Make a town too much trouble and the mecha will flatten it.  Hiding
>amongst the ruins they would be rather formidable though admittedly they
>would have to lie in ambush for any passing grav vehicles and then clear
>out or face the same problem the infantry did.

First catch your pigeon. How do you propose to flatten the town without
dealing with the infantry and their friends first ?

>>Don't EVEN get me started on what meson artillery will do to them.
>
>   Or to a grav vehicle...
>

Outlaw The Solution ! We *need* a 50m minimum length for meson guns at
TL11, dropping by 10m per TL thereafter. Just say No to TL11 man-portable
Meson Guns !

>   Battledress equipped troops are excellent for shock value and can wipe
>out non-armored infantry equipped with gauss rifles (or lesser weapons).

My preliminary designs couldnt build a rapid-fire man portable gauss gun in
FFS2. If anyone has a design I'd be glad to see it.

>The problem is that when they run into enemy troops that have rapid fire
>energy weapons at their disposal, battledress equipped troops die just as
>fast as the non-battledress equipped formations.  A proper high tech army
>would have mix of armored and non-armored troops, grav vehicles, and
>support vehicles.  Mecha?  Not in anything resembling the Battletech or
>Star Wars style.  Mecha are probably going to be support vehicles,
>spider-like and (if you are using FF&S I) capable of short duration flight
>through Heplar thrusters (this would increase their operational
>effectiveness dramatically), and armed to the teeth with a variety of
>ordinance and sensors--they aren't intended to stand toe to toe with a main
>battle tank (grav or otherwise) but can kill one if they get a chance.

First of all, use contragrav rather than heplar. It's cheaper, lighter,
smaller and puts out less of an IR signature.

Secondly, if the ordinance and sensors cost the real money, why not use1

>
>Regards,
>
>Harold
>
>------------------------------
>
>End of Traveller-digest V1998 #686
>**********************************
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 08:41:27 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)

Legate Legion wrote:

> > On the other hand, grav tanks, which are _much_ better described as
> > "Apache Helicopters From Hell" would give me nightmares...
> 
> You might like to see what I am thinking about for the Mecha.
> 

Ok, post some examples...we can have a shootout between the the Mecha and
gravtank folks...one way to get lots of cool designs for everyone ;-)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 08:59:57 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)

Harold D. Hale wrote:

>    My mecha look more like spiders--low to the ground and about the size of
> a grav tank or smaller.  Two legged artifical giant samurai just aren't
> practical.

That makes your mecha far more similar to conventional tanks, with modern
armor tactics. The TL equivalent of A10's and AH-64's are going to give you
headaches. Granted, unsupported ground troops are going to be creamed by your
mechas...which I'm picturing as moving something like the Bugs in Starsh*t
Troupers (the movie)...fast and agile, only with guns.

nasty, yes, but like conventional armor, your 'legs', be they legs or tracks,
are your weak point. If your mecha are going to be fast, they have to be
light, which means less armor.

> 
> >In a city, you can have literally thousands of ground troops scattered
> >throughout the buildings with anti-tank weapons. Mecha will get
> >slaughtered in that environment...they'll be in a crossfire from
> >somewhere _all_ the time.
> 
>    This would also be true of any vehicle.

Except grav vehicles could stay _above_ the city, which gives them the
advantage of firing from the high ground. Granted, trying to take a city in
the face of determined resistance is _extremely_ difficult, no matter what
your equipment level. There's a reason that some of the nastiest battles of
WWII were essentially extended street fights, going house to house rooting one
side or the other out.

>    Make a town too much trouble and the mecha will flatten it. 

Just nuke it from orbit then. Don't risk _any_ assets. Flattening a city
removes the reason you're there fighting house to house in the first
place...if you're doing that you want the city reasonably intact.

> 
>    Also, tripping a spider-like mecha would be darn near impossible.  All
> your infantry are going to accomplish is pissing off the drivers.

Not with a strong net it won't be. My tactics were also specifically aimed at
the statement 'you see a 40' tall walking samurai', which is what Legate is
talking about if he's referencing Macross and Battletech.

>    A spider-like configuration would be extremely difficult to get around on.

So is anything with a turret, which I'm guessing is how your spider mechs
would be designed. Your mechs far more closely resemble tanks with legs
instead of tracks, not the traditional bipedal mech.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #687
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Sunday, July 26 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 688



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers) 
Mother In Law of Traveller Chat
Some thoughts about Milieu 0 (Long)
Re: Hi Tech combat
Re: Hi Tech combat
Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)
Re: Basic for the Mac
Re: [OT] Re:  Pascal compilers for the Mac
Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)
Minor update to the IW sectors
New PC Careers
Hi, Newbie Here

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 12:48:12 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers) 

> Harold D. Hale wrote:
> 
> >    My mecha look more like spiders--low to the ground and about the size of
> > a grav tank or smaller.  Two legged artifical giant samurai just aren't
> > practical.
> 
> That makes your mecha far more similar to conventional tanks, with modern
> armor tactics. The TL equivalent of A10's and AH-64's are going to give you
> headaches. Granted, unsupported ground troops are going to be creamed by your
> mechas...which I'm picturing as moving something like the Bugs in Starsh*t
> Troupers (the movie)...fast and agile, only with guns.
> 
> nasty, yes, but like conventional armor, your 'legs', be they legs or tracks,
> are your weak point. If your mecha are going to be fast, they have to be
> light, which means less armor.

The problem with more armour is higher ground pressure unless you expand the 
surface area of the tracks/feet.  This is because the extra armour weighs 
more, and thus needs a heavier power supply to get around the added weight.  
Unless you add some antigrav modules, you'll rapidly run up against the wall 
of diminishing returns.  And if you add *any* antigrav modules, you might as 
well go all the way and make the mech a grav tank like you should have in the 
beginning.
 
> > 
> > >In a city, you can have literally thousands of ground troops scattered
> > >throughout the buildings with anti-tank weapons. Mecha will get
> > >slaughtered in that environment...they'll be in a crossfire from
> > >somewhere _all_ the time.
> > 
> >    This would also be true of any vehicle.
> 
> Except grav vehicles could stay _above_ the city, which gives them the
> advantage of firing from the high ground. Granted, trying to take a city in
> the face of determined resistance is _extremely_ difficult, no matter what
> your equipment level. There's a reason that some of the nastiest battles of
> WWII were essentially extended street fights, going house to house rooting one
> side or the other out.

The main reason the Allies did house to house fighting was because they wanted 
to preserve as much of the cities they had to go through.  If this wasn't a 
concern, they could have firebombed them just like they did to Dresden.

> >    Make a town too much trouble and the mecha will flatten it. 
> 
> Just nuke it from orbit then. Don't risk _any_ assets. Flattening a city
> removes the reason you're there fighting house to house in the first
> place...if you're doing that you want the city reasonably intact.

Exactly.  The burg has *something* you want when the fighting is over, and 
you'll pull your punches.  This means, when you get down to it, you're gonna 
be taking it with grunts.  The main theory behind mechas is that they're a 
more articulate tank and can get in & out of areas a conventional tank has 
problems with.  The downside is, they're just too vulnerable to survive.

If you only deploy mechas in areas where they're almost sure to survive, it 
means you're limiting them to like TL2 targets or less.  What are these people 
gonna have that'll justify you taking them on in the first place?  Why bother, 
since advanced biological warfare is good up to like TL8 or 9?

Somebody said something about the Germans losing 25% of their armour units in 
areas where there was practically no anti-armour capability.  This is 
ridiculous.  If there was practically no anti-armour capability, they would 
have lost most of these units to stupid things like friendly fire.  I don't 
see this happening much.  Now, if the poster meant practically no 
*conventional* anti-tank capability, I could agree.  The fact is, the tanks 
*were* taken out other than with friendly fire.  This means *SOME* anti-tank 
capability, like, say, Molotov cocktails...

> >   Also, tripping a spider-like mecha would be darn near impossible.  All
> > your infantry are going to accomplish is pissing off the drivers.
> 
> Not with a strong net it won't be. My tactics were also specifically aimed at
> the statement 'you see a 40' tall walking samurai', which is what Legate is
> talking about if he's referencing Macross and Battletech.

'You see a 15 meter tall walking samurai' means you have a BIG EASY TO HIT 
target.  Damned little survivability given the technical restraints needed to 
provide said survivability.  Standard 3I battledressed grunts were *not* meant 
as a replacement for grav tanks, they were intended as heavily armoured highly 
survivable *infantry*.  They can hide in places that are reasonably man-sized. 
 Can't do that with a mecha.  And even the high tech aspects of Desert Storm 
showed you *STILL* need grunts with guns.

> >   A spider-like configuration would be extremely difficult to get around on.
> 
> So is anything with a turret, which I'm guessing is how your spider mechs
> would be designed. Your mechs far more closely resemble tanks with legs
> instead of tracks, not the traditional bipedal mech.

If it's gonna resemble a tank, take it the rest of the way.  Anything else is 
just expensive targets for the bad guys to take out.  If you want infantry, 
*design* infantry.

Keven
- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 10:00:44 -7
From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
Subject: Mother In Law of Traveller Chat

Hello!

If you missed our two previous chat sessions, you will want to be 
sure to miss our next session...

Milieu 0 Revisited!

Undernet
#traveller
Thursday, July 30, 1998, 6 PM PDT/9 PM EDT

The flounders of Traveller Chat are quite proud to announce:
(Flounders?  Sounds fishy to me...)

Traveller Chat provides a full day's supply of Vitamin C! **

Warning: The Surgeon General Has Determined That Too Many 
Sessions of Traveller Chat May Cause Loss of Intelligence, Loss of 
Integrity, and May Cause One to Consider Running for Congress.  
:-)

Of course, the positive side is that nobody has ever died from 
taking Traveller Chat, although at least one person IS in critical 
condition (we wish him a quick recovery..., or rather, our attorney 
wishes him a full recovery).  :-)

Anyways, we invite you to kick over the corpse of T4's main 
setting, and enjoy what amounted to a missed opportunity.  :-)

Stu

** Traveller Chat has been discovered to provide 100% RDA of 
Vitamin C when taken with two tall 16 oz glasses of orange juice.

Stuart L. Dollar                sdollar@goodnet.com
- ---------------------------------------------------
Published Game Designer, Frustrated Novelist
"Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God."
- -Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 18:13:30 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Some thoughts about Milieu 0 (Long)

Hi,

I spent all afternoon thinking about Milieu 0...what I liked, didn't
like, and would like to see done with it...and writing this as a reply
to someone.  When I finished it occurred to me that I should post it and
see what you think.

    -------------------------------------------------------
    
I thought Milieu 0, and the M0 Campaign book showed promise, but it just
didn't *do* it for me, somehow.  For one thing, it was aimed more at
politics than I liked, but that wasn't really the problem...politics
*had* to be involved and politics gets dirty.  Well, I was hoping for
more exploration and recontact, and by recontact I don't mean subverting
local economies and governments, either, ;-> but that wasn't all of it
either.

The problem was, I think, you put both too much and too little in the
book.  _Milieu 0 Campaign_ tried to cover a subject that just didn't fit
in one book.  In the space you had, you were only able to focus on one
the kind of campaign and even then not as completely as you could have.
I realize you mentioned that other sorts of campaigns were possible, but
it was clear where the focus was when you wrote in _Milieu 0 Campaign_
that "all roleplaying is political, to one degree of another."

Seems to me, Milieu 0 should have been setup a little differently.  I
wouldn't drop the politics.  I wouldn't even de-emphasize it, but I'd
approach it a little differently.

What I would do is contract the size of the Sylean Federation, constrict
the time period Milieu is going to cover, and expand the space to tell
the story.  

I suggest Milieu 0 cover the 60 years from -30 to +30, and
at the beginning of Milieu 0 make the Federation a compact, sub-sector
sized, state...bigger than its neighbors, but not much bigger.

This means we begin with the final maneuvers leading up to Cleon
establishing himself as Emperor and the critical early years where he
defends his position and the Third Imperium expands beyond its central
"core."  That Cleon *will* succeed in founding the Imperium or that he
(and his offspring) will succeed in surviving as Emperor can be in doubt
as players campaign in this period.

It also means that the *survival* of the Federation/Imperium would be in
doubt if several of the neighboring states combine against it.
Diplomacy becomes more than a way of expanding, it becomes a tool of
survival...as it should be.

Then I would make sure that several different *kinds* of campaigns are
described and detailed.  Some political and underhanded, some noble and
pure. Maybe, something like the following...

Campaign Type One -- Securing the Imperium

During the Milieu 0 period, the Sylean Federation/Third Imperium is only
a subsector sized "empire" in the middle of the Core Sector.  The rest
of the Core Sector contains pocket empires and independent systems,
several of which are *real* challenges to the Federation/Imperium's
survival.  This campaign type would focus on politics, intrigue, and
military actions...both internal and external...as the Syleans and Cleon
secure their position as *the* Imperium and as the Emperor.

  --- Sub-Campaign:  Securing Our Rightful place in the Imperium
  
Internally, the Syleans of Cleon's generation are working out if there
is going to *be* a new Imperium, then working out the structure and
"pecking order" of Imperial leadership once there is one.  This
involves political maneuvering and, very likely, other less polite
techniques.

Players would work for (be members of) a faction (family) vying for
power and influence inside the power structure, first of the Grand
Senate then of Cleon's court.  Depending on just how dirty you want
politics to get (and I don't have a problem with it getting very dirty)
you'd see everything from assassinations (real and character) to
seduction...with blackmail, extortion and financial manipulation in
between.

They could also play citizens of a neighboring empire working against
Sylean (or Cleon's) interests, either before or after the founding of
the Imperium.

  --- Sub-Campaign:  Securing the Imperium's Rightful place in the
                     Galaxy
  
Externally, the strength of the surrounding Empires would have to be
"reduced" to protect the Imperium, and the independent systems would
have to be given a reason to join the Imperium.  This would involve
political, economic and military actions.  

Players could work for the Imperial government as diplomats/spies or
military personnel, they could be citizens of one of the competing
Empires resisting the Imperium, or they could be merchants from either
side caught in the middle and just trying to make a buck.

  --- Sub-Campaign:  A Pirate's Life
  
This would be a period where empires (including the Imperium) might well
secretly commission privateers to carry out economic raiding in "enemy"
and contested territory.  The empire could always say publicly, "We know
nothing about these pirates you're complaining about, besides it isn't
in *our territory.  If there was, or if you were in the *Imperium* you
wouldn't have these kinds of problems.", but still allow them to use
local ports, "Why not, they haven't committed any crimes in *our*
territory have they?"  The very same technique could be used by the
Imperium's opponents...it probably was given Cleon's "anti-piracy"
spiel.  It puts a cute twist on things if the Imperium was behind much
of the "piracy" they "wiped out" once a system or area joined, though,
doesn't it?


Campaign Style Two -- Expanding the Envelope

Space beyond the Core Sector is unknown territory to the Syleans of
Milieu 0, but the Syleans are gripped with a spirit of exploration and
are striving continuously to push back the darkness.  This is the
campaign for the people that want to play Scouts, Scientists and
Exploratory Merchants, a campaign filled with exploration and discovery.
The characters in these games aren't especially concerned with the
intrigues and power struggles of the "core", instead they are constantly
pushing outward to contact new worlds for the sake of knowledge,
adventure and profit.

  --- Sub-Campaign:  Survey and Contact
  
First the Sylean Federation Scout Service then later the renamed
Imperial Interstellar Scout Service was formed to explore and survey
systems and contact the inhabitants if neighboring regions.  By Milieu 0
they have explored to the edges of the Core Sector and are moving beyond
it into the unknown.  Behind them the Federation/Imperium is
consolidating it's position within the Core Sector, but *most* of the
Scouts are looking outward not inward.

The players play Scouts who are assigned the mission of exploring in a
sector bordering on Core and preparing the way for the diplomats,
merchants and military of the Imperium who follow a few years later.  Or
they play Scouts assigned to found, defend and develop outposts and
colonies on a world.  They might be aware of the politics and covert
activities of other branches, but that's not *their* mission.

  --- Sub-Campaign:  Pursuit of Knowledge
  
Archaeologists, academicians and scientists are very interested in
exploring as well.  Lost cities, bases, and artifacts are the life's
blood of archaeology. just as new species of animal and plant are for
the biologist and system data is for the planetary or astronomical
scientist.  Some of these scientists stay at home and analyze data sent
back by scouts, but many of want, even *need*, to go out themselves.

The players can play the scientists in search of the new, novel, or
lost, they can play the spacers that transport the scientists, or they
can play bodyguards for the scientists.  This sort of game could run
inside Core and interface with the political and military intrigues, or
outside Core and deal with the dangers of the totally unknown.

  --- Sub-Campaign:  The Early Bird Catches the Worm
  
The more adventurous often travel beyond "known space" (Core) in the
hope that they will be the first to find and exploit resources they find
there.  Merchants hope to find new products and markets from which they
can make fortunes.  Mercenaries and Adventurers hope to find territories
in which they can acquire fortunes and power.

The players can play Merchants exploring beyond Core, finding, opening
and developing new products and markets.  Out beyond the intrigues of
Core they have a chance to form their own trade companies and develop
them before the Mega-Corporations of the Core enter the area.  

Or they play "retired" technical or military personnel that hire own
with lower tech systems to train the locals and run the higher tech
systems they (or merchants) bring in.  These retired characters can just
as easily be mercenaries hired by merchants, adventurers, would be
conquerors, or local governments either on straight combat tickets, as
the professional cadre of local forces, or in trainer/advisor/commander
roles.  They could also be hopeful conquestidors seeking to build their
own empires.


Now, how would I organize it for publication... 

Instead of doing one big book, do three.  There is enough material and
it allows each book to maintain a strong focus.

Book One: _Cleon's Vision: Rise to Power!_ 

  Time period -30 to 30.  This is the book for all the political,
  economic and military maneuvers.  It would cover when Cleon is setting
  things up to found the Imperium, and then the rise to (and falls from)
  power by various factions within the Imperium.  In addition to
  background events, this would be the place for all the rules for the
  dirty tricks and the skulduggery of political infighting.  Maybe
  careers for Politician, Diplomat, and Spy would go here.  The
  political and economic structure of Sylea, the Federation, the
  Imperium, and an *overview* of all it's neighbors would be in this
  book, too.
  
Book Two: _Growth of the Imperium_

  Time period -30 to +30.  This is the military, diplomatic and economic
  maneuvers that the just founded Imperium took (and had taken against
  it) as it expanded out to control the Core Sector.  This is were you
  put the rules for military actions, and the rules for covert and
  diplomatic "initiatives."  Here is where the military forces of the
  Core are laid out.  It would also contain details of the Imperium's
  strongest early competitors.  I'd also include the piracy/buccaneer
  angle in this book with complete rules and a career for Pirates...or
  Privateers, if you prefer.

Book Three: _Pushing back the Night_

  Time period -30 to +30.  This is the system creation, development and
  exploration book we didn't get in T4.  < grump ;-> I see it as a
  combination of _Scouts_, _Merchant Prince_, _Mercenary_ and _World
  Builder's Handbook_.  Yes, that sounds like a lot, but the basic
  creation systems for all these kinds of characters and the basic world
  creation system would already be in the Main Book, so I think
  everything else would fit into one book.  The book could present
  advanced trade rules, exploratory trade rules and system creation
  procedures.  It could detail what Scouts do and how they do it.  It
  could give the details of forming and campaigning on colonies.  It
  could explain the different types of Mercenary tickets and how to run
  those kinds of campaigns.  It might even be a lead in to a book on
  building economic and political empires (ala Pocket Empires II).
  

I think a 3 book set could adequately cover the types of campaigns we
would want to play in M:0.  The rules within the books could be written
generally enough to be useful in any milieu or alternate campaign
without skimping on the background that most people find useful.

Comments would be appreciated.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 02:29:53
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Hi Tech combat

>From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
>Subject: Re: Mecha
>
>Ian Whitechurch writes:

>Actually, Battledress, IMTU, is NOT intended for survival against anti-tank
>weapons. Rather, the useage tends to be in the anti-infantry role, and in
>the equivalent of light armor-cav: fast attacks against non-heavy targets.
>

The problem is that infantry started to be issued with anti-tank weaponary
down to squad level back at TL6. You have to be able to deal with them, one
way or another, if you are going to deal with infantry.

Personally, I am very doubtful about cavalry attacks on infantry. I think
cav is going to take horrific losses against dug-in infantry.

>I use BD and Combat armors as the equivalent of APC's/AFV's (as the terms
>are used in modern US military parlance): a means to get infantry to
>survive long enough to fight AFTER the heavy armor, AIr Support, and Arty
>wipe out the obvious hard targets, but before "REAL INFANTRY" can move in
>to mop up and control the area. I also have them used in arreas where the
>hard shell protects against expected possible blast/fragmentation and
>hostile environments, especially starport tarmac.
>
>I also use the bounce infantry concept: Grav-mobile battlesuits with some
>anti-tank weapons carried, for fast, high speed, high dispersion rapid
>response. Since the BD-14 and BD-15 units can use the FGMP-14, and integral
>grav belts, and give the user a useful operational day of nearly 18-20
>hours,  bounce infantry scout units are fast, efficient (they can make more
>out of terrain than any other hardened unit), and carry sensors equivalent
>to most light AFV's, they can flesh out the light recon BEAUTIFULLY.

Grav packs look to be viable for non-powered infantry. A problem is
signature - grav packs of whatever sort needs a power source, and that
means signature. Signature draws artillery ...

The tactics I am thinking of involve dug-in concealed infantry with
artillery support. I assume that smart munitions designed to look for
things in battledress would be available - possibly individual heat-seeker
submunitions.

>
>IME, IMTU, Battle Dress and Combat armors at TL13+ are fairly resistant to
>most small arms fire (enough that it extends the combat lifespan from under
>a minute to around 5 minutes in large engagements). This is based upon
>experience with both TNE and MT, and under MT both the large scale and
>personal scale combat systems. They are just as subject to annihilation by
>armor when directly targeted as unarmored infantry. Danger-space secondary
>effects are MUCH reduced; non-direct targeting is unlikely to actually take
>out BD armored troops, whilst being able to anihilate unarmored infantry.

Unless that infantry is dug in, which makes it pretty much shrapnel proof,
especially if you issue the dug-in infantry with slabs of, say, 2cm thick
armour plate for top cover for foxholes.

>
>[still IMTU:] This "Secondary Effect Damage Reduction" makes a small cadre
>of BD troops very useful in most ground ops where there is some cover. The
>Regiments of Armored Infantry in the imperial marines are specifically
>beach-head-establishment units, and as scout units for theater operations,
>but not the mainstay of the battle lines. Grav Armor, and grav-mobile leg
>infantry (Grav APC mobile) are the bulk of the line troops in MTU's
>Imperial Military.

One advantage of having a small proportion of your troops equipped in a
particular way is that it makes it not cost effective to re-equip an entire
enemy force, and re-engineer their doctrine, to deal with it.

>Anthony Jackson Writes:

>>Powered battle dress with gauss rifles could probably slaughter huge
>>numbers of
>>such troops.  It depends a lot on the price/reliability of powered battle
>>dress, though --it probably isn't worth more than about a 5:1 force
advantage.
>>
>under MT, I have found BD-14 with Gauss Rifle superior to TL-10 CES with
>Gauss Rifles by over 10:1...when 100 troopers in BD take on 1500 in CES
>using the SAME weapons system, With the BD being elites and the CES troops
>being borderline veterans, already entrenched in the city ruins. Troop
>levels assumed using the skill levels based upon AHL/Striker standards.

Given a 4 TL advantage, one would hope that they have an advantage of 10:1
.. imagine for a second a modern unit against a TL 5 formation. Elites vs
vets should be worth 3:2 by itself IMO.

Gauss rifles-12 in Striker werent that impressive. They had penetration of
7, which was one point better than a HMG-5, and range was similar.
Essentially, every man got a .50 cal, which is nice, but not as nice as the
increase from protection 5 for cloth-7 to protection-10 for combat armour-12.

The real advantages for hi-tech troops are in things like individual
communicators, map boxes and (especially) laser-guided cluster bomblet
artillery (including lurk-and-attack-when-asked missiles). Every Man A
Forward Observer :).

>
>In TNE: A PC was knocked unconscious while wearing BD-12. THe PC was KO'd
>by a M60 from T2K weapons book- by the 1 pip per die effect. It took three
>turns of full auto fire, using the rules as written (d6's for damage, no
>sudden death), with most of the KO being faceplate hits. The PC was able to
>get close enough to hand grenade the 60-gunner. The PC was hit with 1/2 of
>all rounds fired by the m60; all shots were at Close range for the M60, as
>the combat was aboard a ship.
>

A .50 cal isnt designed to be used on hard targets - it is designed for
multiple soft targets at range.

Try it again using, say, a 60mm recoiless bunker-buster.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 13:03:05 +1200
From: Steve Rennell <wulf@sea.southern.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Hi Tech combat

Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au> wrote in part:
> A problem is signature - grav packs of whatever sort
> needs a power source, and that means signature. Signature
> draws artillery ... 

I have often wondered how small you can get a MAD 
device (Magnetic Anomoly detector, used by recon 
aircraft to find submarines)

Think about all those gauss rifles going off - those have 
got to produce significant magnetic spikes - now think 
about guided munitions keying off a MAD; An artilery shell 
specially delivered to each individual infantry foxhole...

Steve


- ---
Software is never having to say you're finished.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 19:16:09 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)

In mail you write:

>>    Make a town too much trouble and the mecha will flatten it. 
>
> Just nuke it from orbit then. Don't risk _any_ assets. Flattening a city
> removes the reason you're there fighting house to house in the first
> place...if you're doing that you want the city reasonably intact.

Pardon me, but I don't recall *any* city that was subjected to any
great amount of "house to house fighting" that came thru "reasonably
intact". 

>>    A spider-like configuration would be extremely difficult to get around 
> on.
>
> So is anything with a turret, which I'm guessing is how your spider mechs
> would be designed. Your mechs far more closely resemble tanks with legs
> instead of tracks, not the traditional bipedal mech.

Also, they'll have *severe* problems with ground pressure. All that
mass on those little feet. Standard tarmac will flow like mud. And
don't even *think* about dirt or sand.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 19:27:53 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Basic for the Mac

In mail you write:

> SCBasic is freeware, Toolbox using, structured basic environment. NOT USER
> FRIENDLY for coding toolbox calls, but powerful. Runs fine on 68040 and
> 68030; donkt know about 68000. Also FatBinary, IIRC. Has some problems with
> the built-in (default) I/O windows... supports up to 20 separate code
> files. Requires use of ResEdit or equivalent to create GUI components.
> SCBasic is written in SCBasic. The SC stands for Self Compiled. I can't
> find the Author's site, but I'll zip it up and send it direct if you want
> it (and I can still find it on my PB).
>
> Again, since my worst machine is an '030, I don't know how they will run on
> your Mac+.

Someone else checked and it requires a 68020 minimum.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 19:31:13 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: [OT] Re:  Pascal compilers for the Mac

In mail you write:

> Try http://tfdec1.fys.kuleuven.ac.be/~michael/fpc/
>
> I don't know if it supports the Mac yet, but they say that the compiler
> supports 680x0 processors.

I'll definitely check that one out, as FPC is also the leading
contender for an OS/2 Pascal for Turbo Pascal fans!

Be nice to use different versions of the same compiler on all my systems.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 01:05:40 -0400
From: "chauncey smith" <Csmith@icdc.com>
Subject: Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)

- -----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Saturday, July 25, 1998 12:04 PM
Subject: Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)


>Harold D. Hale wrote:
>
>>    My mecha look more like spiders--low to the ground and about the size
of
>> a grav tank or smaller.  Two legged artifical giant samurai just aren't
>> practical.
>
>That makes your mecha far more similar to conventional tanks, with modern
>armor tactics. The TL equivalent of A10's and AH-64's are going to give you
>headaches. Granted, unsupported ground troops are going to be creamed by
your
>mechas...which I'm picturing as moving something like the Bugs in Starsh*t
>Troupers (the movie)...fast and agile, only with guns.
>
>nasty, yes, but like conventional armor, your 'legs', be they legs or
tracks,
>are your weak point. If your mecha are going to be fast, they have to be
>light, which means less armor.
>
>>
>> >In a city, you can have literally thousands of ground troops scattered
>> >throughout the buildings with anti-tank weapons. Mecha will get
>> >slaughtered in that environment...they'll be in a crossfire from
>> >somewhere _all_ the time.
>>
>>    This would also be true of any vehicle.
>
>Except grav vehicles could stay _above_ the city, which gives them the
>advantage of firing from the high ground. Granted, trying to take a city in
>the face of determined resistance is _extremely_ difficult, no matter what
>your equipment level. There's a reason that some of the nastiest battles of
>WWII were essentially extended street fights, going house to house rooting
one
>side or the other out.
>
>>    Make a town too much trouble and the mecha will flatten it.
>
>Just nuke it from orbit then. Don't risk _any_ assets. Flattening a city
>removes the reason you're there fighting house to house in the first
>place...if you're doing that you want the city reasonably intact.
>
nuking a city or anything else from orbit is destorying the asset that you
want..
and then you have to rebuild the socity which is more expensive then the
mecha or BD or grav tank.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 18:20:57 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Minor update to the IW sectors

I've just looked at Mike Baileys excellent Unbroken Pride work (check it out, its 
good) and updated my IW work to fit. I've also taken the opportunity to fix a 
major continuity error which had crept into the work.

The updated file can be found at:

< http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/intwars/iwships.htm >

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 00:20:41 -0700
From: Skoal <skoal@mail.gci-net.com>
Subject: New PC Careers

Hello All,
Anyone know were I could find some new T4 PC/NPC careers?

Thanks


http://www.gci-net.com/users/s/skoal/tnet4.html
(updated)

The Official Firebase Games Web Site
http://freespace.virgin.net/em.bis/panzer88/index.html


                 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 05:19:54 -0500
From: "Jessica Walton" <jessica@dynasty.net>
Subject: Hi, Newbie Here

Hi All:

I'm  new to the list and am seeking some information on Minnesota,
especially the Twin Cities area.  If anyone can help, please contact me.
Thanks in advance for your assistance.

I'm Jessica.  Married  to  Mike,  32 years old,  work in Banking Research as
a Supervisor for a large regional bank in Evansville, IN.  Seeking to move
to MN for a change...no kids, one cat named Kelly.   Love traveling,
photography, cross stitch, reading, movies and singing.

Looking forward to lively discussions here.

Take care,
Jessi

- -----Original Message-----
From: Skoal <skoal@mail.gci-net.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Sunday, July 26, 1998 2:27 AM
Subject: New PC Careers


>
>Hello All,
>Anyone know were I could find some new T4 PC/NPC careers?
>
>Thanks
>
>
>http://www.gci-net.com/users/s/skoal/tnet4.html
>(updated)
>
>The Official Firebase Games Web Site
>http://freespace.virgin.net/em.bis/panzer88/index.html
>
>
>

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #688
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Sunday, July 26 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 689



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #680
Info Needed *BIGTIME BAD*!!!
Re: Hi, Newbie Here
Re: Hi, Newbie Here
Alien Races - Ksiffchi in White Dwarf no 35
Re: Hi, Newbie Here 
Re: Hi, Newbie Here 
Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**
Re: Hi, Newbie Here 
Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)
Website redone ... again
Re: TNE Combat
Re: TNE Combat
Re: Hi Tech combat
Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**
Re: Hi, Newbie Here
Re: TNE Combat
(Fwd) Re: Hi, Newbie Here
Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**
Re: Hi, Newbie Here 
Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**
Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**
New world name in Spica
Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 08:46:02 -0400
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #680

- -----Original Message-----
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Thursday, July 23, 1998 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #680

>
>One issue I have with Traveller is the way that TL6-7 anti-tank weapons
>blow the crap out of battledress. A Boys anti-tank rifle should not be able
>to give an Imperial Marine more than a very bad headache.
>
>Ian Whitchurch

Ian, throw in modifiers to hit for size and dexterity/maneuverability and
the chances to hit are tremendously reduced.  The book doesn't allow for
this properly but I know from experience that aiming a shoulder fired or
even a wire guided rocket/missile is damned difficult.  A quick zig/zag by
something that is about 5% of the size that you are used to aiming at will
add tremendously to the difficulty factor.  Your weapons firer will NOT be
able to compensate that quickly.  I do believe damage is right IF they can
hit him, after all the round was designed to stop a tank.

Thom

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 09:12:50 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Info Needed *BIGTIME BAD*!!!

I need *canonical* data if possible on the following subsectors of Reaver's 
Deep:

Drinsaar
Urlaggush
Fahlnar

All I need is the UWP listings, I can generate my own maps, thank you!  And I 
*DON'T* want the stuff in Galactic.  Anybody got any listings from *canonical* 
sources they could send me?

And yeah, I've got LOM.  (grin)  It's got *some* of the data I need for the 
subsectors in question, but I need the *rest* of the data.

Thanxx in advance.

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 09:03:46 -0500
From: Talisman <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Hi, Newbie Here

Mrs Walton;
    I think you have missunderstood the meaning of the name of this list.
Travaller is a science fiction role playing game, and that is what this list is
a discusion of.

Jessica Walton wrote:

> Hi All:
>
> I'm  new to the list and am seeking some information on Minnesota,
> especially the Twin Cities area.  If anyone can help, please contact me.
> Thanks in advance for your assistance.
>
> I'm Jessica.  Married  to  Mike,  32 years old,  work in Banking Research as
> a Supervisor for a large regional bank in Evansville, IN.  Seeking to move
> to MN for a change...no kids, one cat named Kelly.   Love traveling,
> photography, cross stitch, reading, movies and singing.
>
> Looking forward to lively discussions here.
>
> Take care,
> Jessi



- --
My god, it's full of stars!


Http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/4467

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 16:04:41 +0200
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Hi, Newbie Here

Jessica Walton wrote:

> Hi All:

> (lots snipped cause spirit is known)

> Looking forward to lively discussions here.
>
> Take care,
> Jessi

Sometimes i wonder wheather the Mailing lists for real life travellers get
people asking about TL 15 Battledresses od the Viability of Piracy in exchange
;-)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:01:25 +0100
From: Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Alien Races - Ksiffchi in White Dwarf no 35

Hi

  Has anyone made up some character generation tables / rules
for creating Ksiffchi characters.

 Cheers



Dom
- ---

mailto:dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com  or  mailto:dominicr@bigfoot.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 10:39:53 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Hi, Newbie Here 

> Jessica Walton wrote:
> 
> > Hi All:
> 
> > (lots snipped cause spirit is known)
> 
> > Looking forward to lively discussions here.
> 
> Sometimes i wonder wheather the Mailing lists for real life travellers get
> people asking about TL 15 Battledresses od the Viability of Piracy in exchange
> ;-)

No doubt they counter with the merits of near-C teleported rocks.

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 10:41:43 -0400
From: "johannes" <johannes@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Hi, Newbie Here 

- -----Original Message-----
From: Keven R. Pittsinger <jamstar@glasscity.net>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Sunday, July 26, 1998 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: Hi, Newbie Here


>> Jessica Walton wrote:
>>
>> > Hi All:
>>
>> > (lots snipped cause spirit is known)
>>
>> > Looking forward to lively discussions here.
>>
>> Sometimes i wonder wheather the Mailing lists for real life travellers
get
>> people asking about TL 15 Battledresses od the Viability of Piracy in
exchange
>> ;-)
>
>No doubt they counter with the merits of near-C teleported rocks.
>
>Keven
>
>--


Well, Ms. Walton said she wanted lively discussions.  Somehow I don't think
this is what she had in mind.  Do you think we'll hear from her again?

John

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 09:44:14 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**

At 12:36 am 7/25/98 +0100, you wrote:
> "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net> wrote:
>
>>	I'm just [a] lazy (email/web ordering rocks!), and [b] several
hours
>>off of normal office hours for UK, and [c] too cheap to pick up the
>>phone ... Frankly, sending them my CC info via email is just as
>>insecure as giving it over the phone, or handing my card to a clerk
>>in a store
>
>But I think that the requirement is from their CC company. Why not
fax them
>if you've got the modem at home?

	I don't have the )*&(%#&*)#$&*$% POS Mickeysquish fax crap
installed, so I can't fax ... and it would still break (c) above ...
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 08:58:39 -0700
From: "Suz Dollar" <suzd@goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Hi, Newbie Here 

> Well, Ms. Walton said she wanted lively discussions.  Somehow I don't
> think this is what she had in mind.  Do you think we'll hear from her
> again?

I emailed her privately, explaining her mistake, and gave her the 
unsubscribe info so somehow I doubt it.

Suz

Suzette C. Dollar
#Traveller Channel Manager
suzd@goodnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 09:29:53 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> >>    Make a town too much trouble and the mecha will flatten it.
> >
> > Just nuke it from orbit then. Don't risk _any_ assets. Flattening a city
> > removes the reason you're there fighting house to house in the first
> > place...if you're doing that you want the city reasonably intact.
> 
> Pardon me, but I don't recall *any* city that was subjected to any
> great amount of "house to house fighting" that came thru "reasonably
> intact".

'Rasonably' is a slippery word...compared to nuking it from orbit, yes any
city that was subjected to house to house is reasonably intact... after all
most of the buildings are still standing, the roads could actually be cleared
pretty quickly. Then, too we don't have any examples I can think of that
weren't either bombed or shelled pretty heavily first. The point remains that
if you simply want the place destroyed, it's insane to do it by going in and
doing it house by house. If you're doing that, you have an objective to
capture _something_.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 10:30:09 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Website redone ... again

For those of you who are keeping track, I think this is the sixth or
seventh time I've restructured my website. I finally got sick and
tired of the limitations of the automatically generated navigation
bars in FrontPage, and ditched them entirely. I've replaced them with
a Java applet that creates a little tree structure along one side. I
also tried to include a non-Java substitute. Unfortunately, all I've
checked it out with is Netscrape 4.0--if you're using something else,
please take a gander at it & let me know if it works. Thanks!


- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 10:00:41 +0100
From: Zeb Fisher <zeb@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: TNE Combat

Hmmm,

So no one here has played with the Pen scores of weapons in TNE?

Zeb

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 12:30:24 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: TNE Combat

At 10:00 am 7/26/98 +0100, you wrote:
>Hmmm,
>
>So no one here has played with the Pen scores of weapons in TNE?

	I believe there was a proposal to modify the Pen of man-portable
lasers--rather than declaring any laser with a calculated Pen of 1 or
greater to be Nil, use the calculated Pen.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 10:36:24 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Hi Tech combat

At 02:29 AM 7/26/98, Ian wrote:

>The problem is that infantry started to be issued with anti-tank weaponary
>down to squad level back at TL6. You have to be able to deal with them, one
>way or another, if you are going to deal with infantry.
>
>Personally, I am very doubtful about cavalry attacks on infantry. I think
>cav is going to take horrific losses against dug-in infantry.

The BD equipped troops are going to have to depend on Patton's three
favorite tools: Speed, Shock, and Maneuver.  An Imperial Marine platoon
will be all over the place, working like mad to shatter the enemy before
they can organize themselves.  As you say further on, having every BD
trooper capable of calling for fire support is in itself an incredible
advantage.

Battle Dress provides on huge advantage:  you can ignore shrapnel.  The
vast majority of infantry deaths come from artillery.  If you can ignore
those hot bits of wire flying around, you've just limited the enemy's
ability to hurt you by about 75%.  They have to use support weapons on you.
 Morale drops quickly when faced with soldiers who just keep coming.

>Grav packs look to be viable for non-powered infantry. A problem is
>signature - grav packs of whatever sort needs a power source, and that
>means signature. Signature draws artillery ...
>
>The tactics I am thinking of involve dug-in concealed infantry with
>artillery support. I assume that smart munitions designed to look for
>things in battledress would be available - possibly individual heat-seeker
>submunitions.

Digging in assumes you know where I'm coming from.  Battle Dress is only
really practical in first wave assaults, where you need maximum striking
power.  If I know where you are dug in, my Marine Regiment is preceded by a
massive amount of deadfall ordinance.

>One advantage of having a small proportion of your troops equipped in a
>particular way is that it makes it not cost effective to re-equip an entire
>enemy force, and re-engineer their doctrine, to deal with it.

Exactly.  Which is why the vast majority of Imperial troops are still
wearing CES and carrying gauss rifles.  It's much cheaper.  Dedicated
strike units wear BD.

- --

+---------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net |
|        http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
+---------------------------------------------+
|    "But think of Korea, of Guadalcanal, of  |
| Belleau Wood, of Viet Nam.  The H-bomb did  |
| not abolish the infantryman; it made him    |
| essential... and he has the toughest job of |
| all and should be honored."                 |
|                       - Robert Heinlein     |
+---------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 13:33:16 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**

On 07/26/98 at 09:44 AM,  "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net> said:

<snip of suggestion to fax cc number to a game company in another country>

>	I don't have the )*&(%#&*)#$&*$% POS Mickeysquish fax crap
>installed, so I can't fax ... and it would still break (c) above
>...

It would be easier on us, in the US and Canada, if BITS could find a
distributor over here.  Seeing as these books are in something of a
niche, I can see were the big distrubutors (that are left) might not be
interested, but it doesn't *have* to be a major distributor, BITS might
be able to directly distribute to an on-line games vendor, even some
enterprising netizen could buy a few copies of each book and sell via
the net.

Has BITS checked with Crazy Egor's, Discount Games, Dragon's Trove, or
Titan Games to see if they would be interested in stocking a few copies?
 
Has BITS dropped a note to Hyperbooks?  Terry would handle the on-line
purchase and after BITS received a confirmation they would ship out the
product.  Because we're talking about shipping from England costs would
be higher, but probably not much more.

Has BITS approached, or been approached by, anybody in TML about this?
I bet there is someone here who would be willing to act as USA
distributor for BITS products.  

Heck, even if there's nobody here you'd trust to be your distributor why
wouldn't you sell a few copies of each book at wholesale to someone over
here and let them sell them?  Paul Sanders was able to sell out his 120
copies of Letter of Marque (and could probably seel out another print
run if he wanted to) at ~$18 each. I rather suspect BITS products would
sell, at least, as well...don't you?

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 13:35:51 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Hi, Newbie Here

On 07/26/98 at 08:58 AM,  Suz Dollar <suzd@goodnet.com> said:

>> Well, Ms. Walton said she wanted lively discussions.  Somehow I don't
>> think this is what she had in mind.  Do you think we'll hear from her
>> again?

>I emailed her privately, explaining her mistake, and gave her the 
>unsubscribe info so somehow I doubt it.

That was nice of you Suz.

Personally, I was hoping she'd get interested in all these strange (to
the uninitiated) posts and ask some more questions.  We might have made
a convert. ;->

Eris

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 14:03:32 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: TNE Combat

On 07/26/98 at 12:30 PM,  "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net> said:

>At 10:00 am 7/26/98 +0100, you wrote:
>>Hmmm,

>>So no one here has played with the Pen scores of weapons in TNE?

Don't assume that. ;->

I suspect several of us were drawing our breath and waiting for someone else to jump in.

>	I believe there was a proposal to modify the Pen of man-portable
>lasers--rather than declaring any laser with a calculated Pen of 1 or
>greater to be Nil, use the calculated Pen.

I like the concept of a seperate pen rating, but I've never been
particularly happy with how it was implemented in TNE.  Maybe it was
just me, but the explanations in the book always leave me scratching my
head.  It *looks* like there are two ways of handling pen, one for
personal weapons and one for vehicle/ship weapons, I don't think that's
true, but it sure looked that way to me. 

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 12:15:10 -0700
From: "Suz Dollar" <suzd@goodnet.com>
Subject: (Fwd) Re: Hi, Newbie Here

Looks like Jessica won't be the last...  sigh.

I'll send word to Rob Miracle...

Suz


- ------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
Send reply to:  	"Jessica Walton" <Jessica@dynasty.net>
From:           	"Jessica Walton" <jessica@dynasty.net>
To:             	<suzd@goodnet.com>
Subject:        	Re: Hi, Newbie Here
Date sent:      	Sun, 26 Jul 1998 14:05:52 -0500

Suz:

Thanks for your note.  sorry for the mixup...you may want to forward this
note to list owner.  At the Liszt site,  where they list the list of lists
available...you guys are located in the Travel section with no explanation
of what the list is about...easy error to make...but not my error.  List
owner should fix so people won't  waste their time...

Again, thanks for your note...please send this to the list owner.

I've unsubbed.

Jessica

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 13:21:15 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**

At 01:33 pm 7/26/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Has BITS checked with Crazy Egor's, Discount Games, Dragon's Trove,
or
>Titan Games to see if they would be interested in stocking a few
copies?

	Suggest it to them!
 
>Has BITS dropped a note to Hyperbooks?  Terry would handle the
on-line
>purchase and after BITS received a confirmation they would ship out
the
>product.  Because we're talking about shipping from England costs
would
>be higher, but probably not much more.

	I have suggested on-line (downloadable PDF) copies, but they're a
bit leary about that. As for on-line ordering, hardcopy shipping, I
did suggest it (although I didn't have specifics in mind). Might want
to drop them a line about this.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 13:23:24 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Hi, Newbie Here 

At 08:58 am 7/26/98 -0700, you wrote:
>> Well, Ms. Walton said she wanted lively discussions.  Somehow I
don't
>> think this is what she had in mind.  Do you think we'll hear from
her
>> again?
>
>I emailed her privately, explaining her mistake, and gave her the 
>unsubscribe info so somehow I doubt it.

	I'm glad somebody was polite about it. I tend to have a short temper
with people who join lists and don't bother to read/save the welcome
message, with such useful things as the *purpose* of the list and
*how to leave* the list ... And the occasional spammer who does it
sets me off like nobody's business.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:37:00 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**

On 07/26/98 at 01:21 PM,  "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net> said:

>At 01:33 pm 7/26/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>Has BITS checked with Crazy Egor's, Discount Games, Dragon's Trove,
>>or Titan Games to see if they would be interested in stocking a few
>>copies?

>	Suggest it to them!

I thought I was.  Aren't there any BITS folks on the TML?  If there
aren't, why the heck not!  ;->

As a suggestion, I wonder what effect it would have if Crazy Egor's or
Discount Games got a few dozen order requests from people willing to put
their Credit Card number where their mouth is? 

Actually, that's not a bad idea.  If there is as much interest in here
as I think there is to get BITS books over here in North America, then
we should pick one good online vender and send email requests for a
specific book to that vendor.  It's probably not worth it to them to
place an order for one copy, but if there are a a few dozen it might get
their attention. It would certainly get mine! ;->

There are several vendors we could pick.  I haven't ordered from Crazy
Egor's or Titan Games, but have heard good things about them from
others.  I have ordered from both Discount Games and Dragon's Trove with
good results. Any of those four would work for me.
 
>>Has BITS dropped a note to Hyperbooks?  Terry would handle the

>	I have suggested on-line (downloadable PDF) copies, but they're a
>bit leary about that. As for on-line ordering, hardcopy shipping, I
>did suggest it (although I didn't have specifics in mind). Might want
>to drop them a line about this.

I can understand their reluctance to do PDF, although BTRC has gone that
route so there must be money in it.  I've ordered several BTRC products
from Hyperbooks (both hardcopy shipping and online files) and have been
pleased.  If anybody here hasn't dropped by hyperbooks.com and taken a
look they should.

Eris

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:14:53 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**

At 03:37 pm 7/26/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I can understand their reluctance to do PDF, although BTRC has gone
that
>route so there must be money in it.  I've ordered several BTRC
products

	Ditto. I think it's a great idea, although I also understand their
reluctance. OTOH, Greg doesn't even protect his documents from
cut'n'paste, so you can copy things and customize them to your
heart's content. I wish every game document were available like that!
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 23:46:50 +0200
From: "Mark Seemann" <dko3835@vip.cybercity.dk>
Subject: New world name in Spica

Another nitpicking article:

Here I go again, although it didn't seem my recent posting regarding the subject of canonical world names was of interest to anyone else...

While thumbing through my issues of Challenge, I noticed a Contact article in JTAS 26 about a minor race called the Prt'.

The Prt' are said to origin from the world Prt'aow, which in the article is referenced "Spica/Prt' (C9667C9)". This made me wonder if one could maybe backtrack the location of that world by finding a world with a matching UWP in the DGP-updated or HIWG sector files.

Alas, there was no world matching the UWP C9667C9, but there is one (and one only) world with matching physical characteristics (size 9, atmosphere 6 and hydrosphere 6) - it's the world 2340 C966302-A. The starport is also the same, but the social characteristics differ (the tech level was never given).

One could think of two reasons for this:

1. The Contact article refers to the CT era stats, and they somehow changed to the new 1120 stats in the intervening years.

2. Noone ever considered the Contact article when generating the UWPs for Spica :-)

Anyway, I suggest one of two things:

1. The world Spica 2340 C966302-A is called Prt'aow, and the UWP is left as is. The referee then need to think up an explanation for why the social stats changed.

2. The world Spica 2340 has it's UWP changed to C9667C9-A, and is still called
Prt'aow.

In any case, subsector O of Spica should be called Prt'.

I still think updating the HIWG sector files to reflect this would be a good
idea (again, I would be happy to do so myself), but maybe I'm the only one who
think this?

Actions? Comments?

Mark Seemann
mark@dk-online.dk (home)
mse@oticon.dk (work)
http://www2.dk-online.dk/users/mark_seemann

ps. I've added this world to my list of canonical worlds (http://www2.dk-online.dk/users/mark_semmann/worlds.htm) if anyone's interested.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 17:43:12 -0400
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments

At 04:12 PM 7/23/98 -0500, Dom and others wrote:
...
>>>http://www.btinternet.com/~leisuregames
>>>mailto://leisuregames@btinternet.com
>>
>>	Unfortunately, they apparently don't allow for online submission of
>>payment info--before you can order, you have to *telephone* or *fax*
>>your credit card number and expiration ...
>
>Once you've done this once you should be able to order the next time
>straight from email.
>

Exactly my experience - if you want to change the credit card used, you
should do it off-line, but once they have a valid card on record, you can
order away by email - I do!

>I recommended Leisure Games because they are the mail order firm I use
>quite a lot, and are reliable (in my experience).
>

++Reliable!


Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #689
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Sunday, July 26 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 690



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Distributor for BITS: Was =  **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**
Re Battledress
Re HIWG Corrections
Dean Files
Re: Hi, Newbie Here
Re: Hi, Newbie Here
Re: Hi tech combat
Re: Hi, Newbie Here
Re: Hi tech combat
Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)
Re: Leisure Games , UK
Re: Hi, Newbie Here
Re: Hi, Newbie Here
Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)
Unbroken Pride:  The Solomani Rim in M:0
Re: Hi tech combat
re: High Tech Combat
re: High Tech Combat

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 17:56:47 -0400
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Distributor for BITS: Was =  **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**

1) I suppose I could by 20 copies of each if there were a reasonable
discount and offer them on the list.  It doesn't bother me but my wife might
not like it. Hahaha....This would have to be NON-PROFIT though because I
don't need the added tax paper work at the end of the year.  Is there enough
people that want them to justify this?  I believe that I could arrange a
credit card purchase if that is what people are looking for.  Let me check
into a couple of things and I'll get back to you guys.

2) I'm the guy that bought the extra copies of "Letter Of Marque".  There
are 3 left for those that are interested.  The price is $21.00.  It breaks
down to $18.00 for original purchase + $3.00 for 2 day shipping in the U.S.
First come, first served.

Contact me at thomharr@mediaone.net and NOT here please.

Thom

- -----Original Message-----
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Sunday, July 26, 1998 2:35 PM
Subject: Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**

>
>distributor for BITS products.
>
>Heck, even if there's nobody here you'd trust to be your distributor why
>wouldn't you sell a few copies of each book at wholesale to someone over
>here and let them sell them?  Paul Sanders was able to sell out his 120
>copies of Letter of Marque (and could probably sell out another print
>run if he wanted to) at ~$18 each. I rather suspect BITS products would
>sell, at least, as well...don't you?
>
>Eris
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 14:17:56 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re Battledress

Ian Writes
>>From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
>>Subject: Re: Mecha
>>
>>Ian Whitechurch writes:
>
>>Actually, Battledress, IMTU, is NOT intended for survival against anti-tank
>>weapons. Rather, the useage tends to be in the anti-infantry role, and in
>>the equivalent of light armor-cav: fast attacks against non-heavy targets.
>>
>
>The problem is that infantry started to be issued with anti-tank weaponary
>down to squad level back at TL6. You have to be able to deal with them, one
>way or another, if you are going to deal with infantry.
>
>Personally, I am very doubtful about cavalry attacks on infantry. I think
>cav is going to take horrific losses against dug-in infantry.
>
Ian, you missed the entire point of the last four words of the paragraph
you quoth... AGAINST NON-HEAVY TARGETS. Dug in infantry are just as heavy a
target as an armor collumn; less damage potential, but also much harder to
target individually. Light Cav, BTW, is NOT ARMORED VEHICLES as much as
infantry with transport.

Even so, any heavy infantry unit is going to make life hell on anything
they can prepare for.

and as for TL differences, the 10:1 was with nearly identical commo, and
identical spotting useing the mk 1 eyeball, in a city's rubble.

Battledress is not a panacea for combat; I've NEVER claimed so. It is,
however, a multiplier of infantry effectiveness in the low threat
environments, and even in medium threat environments (ie: actual trained
troops with decent weapons). And, since inidvidual weapons for the average
trooper (by canonical sources) show Gauss rifles or ACR's for all infantry
of TL's 10-15, the TL of the gauss wepaon is immaterial under MT... Under
FF&S, if you take the time, yes it does improve.

A HIgh threat environment is going to eat infantry, armored infantry, light
and medium cav, and some heavy cav. And, IMTU, is simply going to be
softened up with Meson Ortillery... THEN send in marine Cav and Infantry
units under Close Air Support from Marine Armor (The trepida is an
incredible attack aircraft, especially with a co-axial VRF Gauss Gun
added). The Astrin, partner to the trepida is likewise wonderful- fast, and
survivable from direct hits from almost any man-pack weapon. Trepidas,
however, can drop them quick.

As for signatures: Current technology allows for IR suppression via
chemical "Chill Cylinders". Use a chemical reaction that results in
cooling. Currently frightfully expensive. Neutrino: no chance. EMR- can br
reduced if using passive systems and built-in faraday caging, grouned
through the boots. MAD- perenial problem with Traveller is the tech
system's reliance upon ferro-magnetic armors. So, rahter than steel, base
your composites on non-ferro-magnetic materials.

One other thing about sensing: usisng sensing equipment requires training,
computer assistance/automation, or both. Much easier to have semi-automated
sensors putting upa display in the hud of BD than a non-framed kit.

BD, which STARTS at around KCr50, is expensive, and more than likely will
INCREASE training costs (Which, I'll agree with KCr 50 as the base training
costs of an infantry soldier in traveller, as that's about what it worked
out to when using MT and CT Bk4, including housing, ammo, instructor
salaries, amortized cost of training center). And don't forget that the
cost of a soldier also includes his pay over time... BD , which I figure
adds 50% to training cossts, plus the cost of a suit every 10 years per
trooper minimum, makes the cost per trooper in very BASIC BD (no high TL
goodies, just basic commo gear, and a standard issue arm and kit,adds
around KCr25) on the order of KCr150 - to get him combat ready. Around 3
times that of the "sfot" gropo. So it is worth bumping up the costs with
chill canisters, cammo, etc. Standard imperial BD runs on the order of MCr
1.25 per suit, no training or weapon included! With the squad heavy weapons
being in the KCr50-400 range... well, that TL14 Imperial BD with all the
goodies costs as much as a light cav vehicle. And will be protected as
such. The only way I can see Imperial BD in use is for the PSYCHOLOGICAL
effect against civilians. The expense is so great in comparison to soft
infantry, and by comparative firepower (Canon sources show BD troops having
only marginal firepower improvements over soft infantry) that the troops
will not exceed the 20:1 cost differential in performance...

As for "Dug In" soft infantry, such infantry is a static target, much more
suited to artillery fire. And anti-BD arty will be taken out with
counter-battery fire, wither from ortillery, armor, or plandef... unless
the target is a strategic necessity intact (like the power plant for a base
which has otherwise been secured, or power plant and/or life support center
for a domed colony) AND cannot be easily replaced/supplanted. Situation
which, in my view, are a lot less common than some persons on this list
seem to feel (no finger pointing here, just noting it). Why do the hard
thing, when the easy approach will do?

One other note: MT Battledress is more effective than TNE/FF&S1 BD. This is
due to the differences in the armor penetration rules; MT is  a multiplier
to damage, while FF&S is a linear damage reduction system. That 1/10th
damage in MT akes even high damage, low pen weapons fairly useless against
BD and Armor... which is why I apply the success level LAST, (Also a
multiplier, but has a minimum damage function). It reduces BD to the 5:1
effectiveness I feel is right. Otherwise, since thedamage rounds down or
normally) Damage 4 becomes damage 0.4 x success modifier (0.5 to 8, for a
final range of 0.2-3.2 vs BD of AV 14 or more, and the minimum success
needing to be by 4 points (to break the 1 point mark) in oder to do damage
when rounding down). Striker was even more effect from armor, as it was
2d+Pen-AV, with that 7 point difference meaning the worst result from a
Gauss rifle was a heavy wound. Under TNE, the low damage gauss rifles
generally had their eintire damage converted to 1 pip per die. Adds up MUCH
faster.



William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 14:34:11 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re HIWG Corrections

while not a member of MIWG, I think Mark Seeman's cannon checking is
wonderful. I support the changes proposed so far...


William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 18:59:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rob Dean <robdean@access.digex.net>
Subject: Dean Files

I've been a little out of the loop lately, but the Dean Files should be
available on Jo Grant's web site, pretty much in their current entirety.

On errata:  I should really get around to finding a copy of the various
loose bits of errata that were never issued by GDW (some dedeuced by
comparison with Striker I and some from Traveller's Digest...)

Rob Dean
robdean@access.digex.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 16:04:37 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Hi, Newbie Here

[re-mailed to you from mail]
[the original seemed to come from Jessica@dynasty.net]

> It was  on the list of lists site called Liszt.  And it was listed
> under the Travel section with no explanation of what the list was
> about.  Honest mistake...I'm sorry.

The above is the response I got when I asked our misguided new member
where she'd heard about the list. I'm going to be busy for nmost of the
rest of the day. Anyone else want to try and straighten out the folks
at this "Liszt" site?

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 16:07:53 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Hi, Newbie Here

In mail you write:

> At 08:58 am 7/26/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>> Well, Ms. Walton said she wanted lively discussions.  Somehow I
> don't
>>> think this is what she had in mind.  Do you think we'll hear from
> her
>>> again?
>>
>>I emailed her privately, explaining her mistake, and gave her the 
>>unsubscribe info so somehow I doubt it.
>
>         I'm glad somebody was polite about it. I tend to have a short temper
> with people who join lists and don't bother to read/save the welcome
> message, with such useful things as the *purpose* of the list and
> *how to leave* the list ... And the occasional spammer who does it
> sets me off like nobody's business.

Well, since this is far from the first time this has happened, I
explained what the list was about and asked where she'd heard about it.
Her response is in another message.

But basicly, it's as I suspect. There's a site with a list of mailing
lists that has *this* list filed under "Travel". I'll be trying to
contact them later on, but I can't do it until late tonight. 

So we *need* to be nice to people, as they are making an innocent
mistake. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 09:14:19
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Hi tech combat

>From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net>
>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #680
>
>Ian, throw in modifiers to hit for size and dexterity/maneuverability and
>the chances to hit are tremendously reduced.  The book doesn't allow for
>this properly but I know from experience that aiming a shoulder fired or
>even a wire guided rocket/missile is damned difficult.  A quick zig/zag by
>something that is about 5% of the size that you are used to aiming at will
>add tremendously to the difficulty factor.  Your weapons firer will NOT be
>able to compensate that quickly.  I do believe damage is right IF they can
>hit him, after all the round was designed to stop a tank.
>

The Boys ATR was a kinetic-kill weapon, not a rocket. Basically, it was a
dirty great big heavy rifle, designed to deal with early-WW2 tanks.

As tanks got thicker armour, the ATR rifle concept was basically discarded
in favour of shaped-charge rockets.

Now, shaped charge rockets are slooooow, which allows troops to doge them,
if you are using them in an anti-personell role.

The TL9+ equivalent of the Boys ATR looks to be the baby particle
accelerator - about 250 kJ, range about 5km, with an integral grav sled for
mobility.

Of course, once you fire it, everybody within 20km or so will know your
*precise* position.

>From: dberry@hooked.net
>Subject: Re: Hi Tech combat
>
>At 02:29 AM 7/26/98, Ian wrote:
>
>The BD equipped troops are going to have to depend on Patton's three
>favorite tools: Speed, Shock, and Maneuver.  An Imperial Marine platoon
>will be all over the place, working like mad to shatter the enemy before
>they can organize themselves.  As you say further on, having every BD
>trooper capable of calling for fire support is in itself an incredible
>advantage.
>

I actually argued that every trooper would be capable of calling in
artillery fire. This should be an advantage to the defenders - the
shrapnel-proof dugouts should equal to the shrapnel-proof battledress. 

The tactical defense also have an electronic advantage - they can pre-place
sensor decoys. I suspect warfare would become a lot more about concealment
and electronics once it becomes one-shot one-kill.

>Battle Dress provides on huge advantage:  you can ignore shrapnel.  The
>vast majority of infantry deaths come from artillery.  If you can ignore
>those hot bits of wire flying around, you've just limited the enemy's
>ability to hurt you by about 75%.  They have to use support weapons on you.
> Morale drops quickly when faced with soldiers who just keep coming.

Modern artillery (since the Boer War or so) has been designed to shoot
shrapnel-making shells . Once troops start becoming shrapnel proof (when CE
suits and combat armour becomes standard issue), artillery will move to
cluster bomblets and their cousins, small heat (or whatever-) seeking
missiles.

If these bomblets will penetrate Battle Dress (and under Striker they
will), then infantry is back where it was, battledress or no battledress.

The alternative is to build point defense systems for individual suits of
battledress, which looks possible, but difficult.

Platoon-level dedicated point defense systems look more doable - the
equivalent of a ZSU-23 rigged up for anti-artillery work.

>Digging in assumes you know where I'm coming from.  Battle Dress is only
>really practical in first wave assaults, where you need maximum striking
>power.  If I know where you are dug in, my Marine Regiment is preceded by a
>massive amount of deadfall ordinance.

Given a choice between digging in and not digging in, infantry should
*always* dig in.

>
>>One advantage of having a small proportion of your troops equipped in a
>>particular way is that it makes it not cost effective to re-equip an entire
>>enemy force, and re-engineer their doctrine, to deal with it.
>
>Exactly.  Which is why the vast majority of Imperial troops are still
>wearing CES and carrying gauss rifles.  It's much cheaper.  Dedicated
>strike units wear BD.
>

I wont deny that they would, I just suspect that they arent cost effective.

But the biggest issue is the probable lack of 'fronts' in hi-tech
grav-mobile warfare. That is going to change ground combat to almost beyond
recognition ...

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 19:19:49 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: Hi, Newbie Here

- -----Original Message-----
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Sunday, July 26, 1998 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: Hi, Newbie Here


>But basicly, it's as I suspect. There's a site with a list of mailing
>lists that has *this* list filed under "Travel". I'll be trying to
>contact them later on, but I can't do it until late tonight.
>
>So we *need* to be nice to people, as they are making an innocent
>mistake.
>
Personnally I believe it's a Templar plot to convert (pervert?) poor,
innocent, unsuspecting "normals"! Secretly list the List on such sites,
intice the unsuspecting, then use the secret laser powered conversion rays
that they broadcast by way of the computer monitor to gain control! It's all
a plot I tell you! They've been doing it for decades!

unh, excuse me I have to wipe the drool up now.

Mike Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com
"Help Wanted: Telepath, You know where to apply!"  unknown, bumper sticker.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 01:47:21 +0200
From: Deligiannidis Nikolaos <nikolaos.deligiannidis@stud.tu-muenchen.de>
Subject: Re: Hi tech combat

Joseph Pettit wrote:

> >
> >
> > Actually, even when you fix the rules in favour of Mecha,
> traditional
> > troops can still win. Battletech doesnt allow aimed shots to be
> anywhere as
> > easy as they should be, but a combination of AC-2 armed aircraft
> and/or
> > helos, numerous infantry with command-detonated bombs as mines and
> adequate
> > artillery support deals with mecha but good. No expensive fusion
> engines, too.
>
> Although I've never tested it, I thought it would be neat to fully
> load a heavy
> mech with machine guns.  Something on the order of a hundred guns
> going off at
> once.  You gotta expect at least ONE will be a golden BB. The trick is
> getting
> into range.

This remember me of my favorite Mech-Configuration in
Mercenaries/MechwarriorPC-Games. I loaded my Mech with as many MG's as I
could (as much as 10), tried to stay short range and fired all of the at
once, one, two times. Killed most of the light and medium oponents a lot
faster than they tried to kill me, and even worked with the
heavier one's !!! :-)
MG's were more waste heat-efficient than Lasers and PPC's, running cool
and , you are more often on target with the high volumes of fire!


Nikos

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 16:12:24 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> 
>> In mail you write:
>> 
>> >>    Make a town too much trouble and the mecha will flatten it.
>> >
>> > Just nuke it from orbit then. Don't risk _any_ assets. Flattening a city
>> > removes the reason you're there fighting house to house in the first
>> > place...if you're doing that you want the city reasonably intact.
>> 
>> Pardon me, but I don't recall *any* city that was subjected to any
>> great amount of "house to house fighting" that came thru "reasonably
>> intact".
>
> 'Rasonably' is a slippery word...compared to nuking it from orbit, yes any
> city that was subjected to house to house is reasonably intact... after all
> most of the buildings are still standing, the roads could actually be cleared
> pretty quickly. Then, too we don't have any examples I can think of that
> weren't either bombed or shelled pretty heavily first. The point remains that
> if you simply want the place destroyed, it's insane to do it by going in and
> doing it house by house. If you're doing that, you have an objective to
> capture _something_.

Not necessarily. In many cases (Stalingrad?), the objective was to wipe
out the defenders because the attackers didn't dare advance *past* the
town until it was "neutralized". And since the attackers didn't have
the air superiority required to bomb it to death, the poor bloody
infantry got the job.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 01:03:08 +0100
From: Tim Crowfoot <tcrowfoot@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Re: Leisure Games , UK

Matthew, sorry this is a little late but it takes a while for me to plough thru
the huge pile of incoming messages...

U can find Leisure Games at

 http://www.btinternet.com/~leisuregames/index.htm

The website doesn't score too highly on appearances but as far as content goes
I find it most excellent.

I'm struggling to recall the name of the bloke I  normally deal with there but
I've always found them to be most helpful.

Definetly gets my vote for London's best FLGS.

Tim

Mathew Harelick wrote:

> Hi:
>
> Does Leisure Games have a URL?
>
> Matthew S. Harelick
> http://www2.cybernex.net/~matth
> matth@cybernex.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 02:37:32 +0200
From: Deligiannidis Nikolaos <nikolaos.deligiannidis@stud.tu-muenchen.de>
Subject: Re: Hi, Newbie Here

Leonard Erickson wrote:

> In mail you write:
>
> > At 08:58 am 7/26/98 -0700, you wrote:
> >>> Well, Ms. Walton said she wanted lively discussions.  Somehow I
> > don't
> >>> think this is what she had in mind.  Do you think we'll hear from
> > her
> >>> again?
> >>
> >>I emailed her privately, explaining her mistake, and gave her the
> >>unsubscribe info so somehow I doubt it.
> >
> >         I'm glad somebody was polite about it. I tend to have a
> short temper
> > with people who join lists and don't bother to read/save the welcome
>
> > message, with such useful things as the *purpose* of the list and
> > *how to leave* the list ... And the occasional spammer who does it
> > sets me off like nobody's business.
>
> Well, since this is far from the first time this has happened, I
> explained what the list was about and asked where she'd heard about
> it.
> Her response is in another message.
>
> But basicly, it's as I suspect. There's a site with a list of mailing
> lists that has *this* list filed under "Travel". I'll be trying to
> contact them later on, but I can't do it until late tonight.
>
> So we *need* to be nice to people, as they are making an innocent
> mistake.

I went to   www.listz.com    and gave them the searchstring traveller
but there
wasn't anythink to be mistaken. Except from a brief description of the
List
, you could read the answer to the mail request  "  info traveller " to
Majordomo@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM !

cit. :      "
 ************************************************************************

                        The Traveller(tm) Mailing Lists
 ************************************************************************

     Welcome to the Traveller mailing lists!  These lists exist as a
means
     for you, the Traveller player/GM to exchange ideas and discuss
various
     aspects of the Traveller system and it's universe.

     There are four separate lists provided, covering two major aspects
of
     traveller (That is, each aspect has two lists:  A normal version
and a    "

     Even my poor disfunctioning brain could make sense of it!!
    But anyway thanks for new adress !!! :-)
    And by the way, S......ingularities happen!!!

Nikos

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 18:01:06 +0000
From: edjs@bitslayer.net
Subject: Re: Hi, Newbie Here

> To:            traveller@MPGN.COM
> From:          shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> 
> > It was  on the list of lists site called Liszt.  And it was listed
> > under the Travel section with no explanation of what the list was
> > about.  Honest mistake...I'm sorry.
> 
> The above is the response I got when I asked our misguided new member
> where she'd heard about the list. I'm going to be busy for nmost of the
> rest of the day. Anyone else want to try and straighten out the folks
> at this "Liszt" site?

Perhaps someone has already - I took a look at the site and the traveller 
mailing list is not in the Travel category, and when I found it with a general 
search it is fairly clear what it is (the info file for the list is 
included with the listing).
 

- --
Edward Swatschek
edjs@bitslayer.net - edjs@mindlink.net - ICQ 2684960
http://home.mindlink.net/edjs/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 18:01:06 +0000
From: edjs@bitslayer.net
Subject: Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)

> From:          shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> Date:          Sun, 26 Jul 1998 16:12:24 PST
> 
> Not necessarily. In many cases (Stalingrad?), the objective was to wipe
> out the defenders because the attackers didn't dare advance *past* the
> town until it was "neutralized". And since the attackers didn't have
> the air superiority required to bomb it to death, the poor bloody
> infantry got the job.

   Knocking down a city does not kill as many well-prepared defenders as the 
attacker hopes, and gives the surviving defenders plenty of places and material 
to create defenses.  Plus it's even harder to move in heavy weapons through the 
rubble.


- --
Edward Swatschek
edjs@bitslayer.net - edjs@mindlink.net - ICQ 2684960
http://home.mindlink.net/edjs/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 10:18:14 +0800
From: "Michael Bailey" <mickb@opera.iinet.net.au>
Subject: Unbroken Pride:  The Solomani Rim in M:0

A draft HTML version of Unbroken Pride is now available for viewing at

http://www.iinet.net.au/~mickb/UP/frameset.htm


Note, that this is a very early draft, and as such will be subject to
extensive changes in both content and presentation.


Thanks,


Mick

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 22:19:46 -0400
From: Joseph Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Hi tech combat

Deligiannidis Nikolaos wrote:

> Joseph Pettit wrote:
>
> > >
> > >
> > > Actually, even when you fix the rules in favour of Mecha,
> > traditional
> > > troops can still win. Battletech doesnt allow aimed shots to be
> > anywhere as
> > > easy as they should be, but a combination of AC-2 armed aircraft
> > and/or
> > > helos, numerous infantry with command-detonated bombs as mines and
> > adequate
> > > artillery support deals with mecha but good. No expensive fusion
> > engines, too.
> >
> > Although I've never tested it, I thought it would be neat to fully
> > load a heavy
> > mech with machine guns.  Something on the order of a hundred guns
> > going off at
> > once.  You gotta expect at least ONE will be a golden BB. The trick is
> > getting
> > into range.
>
> This remember me of my favorite Mech-Configuration in
> Mercenaries/MechwarriorPC-Games. I loaded my Mech with as many MG's as I
> could (as much as 10), tried to stay short range and fired all of the at
> once, one, two times. Killed most of the light and medium oponents a lot
> faster than they tried to kill me, and even worked with the
> heavier one's !!! :-)
> MG's were more waste heat-efficient than Lasers and PPC's, running cool
> and , you are more often on target with the high volumes of fire!

My favorite trick was configuring my joystick buttons to control the jump
jets.  Great way to side step incoming missiles.  I used that and completely
loaded out with medium lasers, then you rush up and POW!  one shot and the
whole screen lights up.  Of course, I turned off heat when I did that :-)
But there was this one time that I got lucky with a light mech.  Jumped high
and got a lucky MG shot through the cockpit of a Dire Wolf.  Never could
duplicate the shot though.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 23:29:30 -0400
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: re: High Tech Combat

Leonard Erikson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Remember, a human is a 100-200w IR source.  Powered armor could easily have a
> lower signature than a human.

Nope. Because it *still* has to radiate that 100-200W or else the
trooper inside fries in his own juices. *Plus* it needs to get rid of
the energy generated by the power plant. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The "Chill Can" idea is nice - a refrigeration unit designed to let you
"turn off" (or at least dampen) your heat signature for short periods of
time, such as the time between your unit breaking cover and your unit
storming the enemy HQ complex. You glow like a toaster after you
overload the heat storage, or dump the can and lose the heat masking
capabilities.

This assumes, of course, that by TL12 or so we haven't come up
with some impossible bit of technology that lets us jam an IR
sensor. 

I've liked the idea of ultra-short sensor ranges in a sci-fi RPG - they
make so many cinematic things possible. Starfighters flying at
speeds and ranges akin to those of a WW2 dogfight, because
sensor jamming makes their eyeballs the only useful collision
avoidance and targeting tool (a la Star Wars), for example. I think
a high-tech battelfield will be much more interesting if jamming tech
is so well developed that you can't trust a targeting solution (or even
target detection) not provided by the naked eye.


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 23:38:43 -0400
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: re: High Tech Combat

Ian Whitchurch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The Boys ATR was a kinetic-kill weapon, not a rocket. Basically, it was a
dirty great big heavy rifle, designed to deal with early-WW2 tanks.

As tanks got thicker armour, the ATR rifle concept was basically discarded
in favour of shaped-charge rockets.

Now, shaped charge rockets are slooooow, which allows troops to doge them,
if you are using them in an anti-personell role.

The TL9+ equivalent of the Boys ATR looks to be the baby particle
accelerator - about 250 kJ, range about 5km, with an integral grav sled for
mobility.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You've just replaced a Section-level (or Squad-level), man-portable support
weapon with a Company-level support vehicle. You need a cheaper
analog - but remember that the weapon you're seeking an analog for
was never very effective, even against early WW2 tanks - on anything
over a Panzer II it would be lucky to break a tread.

The Boys ATR might have been a nice weapon to drop to the resistance
units, though - it could easily disable a steam locomotive, for example,
or knock out any cargo vehicle. And it's effects on things like avgas
storage tanks would be beautiful to behold. Put those in something you
can carry on the back of a bicycle and use at 100+ meters and you
have a very nice toy indeed, provided the guerillas don't get cocky.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #690
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Monday, July 27 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 691



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

re: High Tech Combat
Re: Dean Files
Re: New world name in Spica
I'm back (although I never really left)
Re: hi tech combat
Re: Dean Files
TNS and Library Data Update
Re: TRAVELLER ON CD-ROM
Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)
Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)
Re: New world name in Spica
Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)
Re: Hi tech combat
mecha
Re: Re Keith Brothers Products
Private Ryan/ Low-tech combat
LOM
RE: Mecha in Traveller
Re: mecha
Re: Dean Files
Re: New world name in Spica
Re: Vilani / Solomani
Re: Vilani / Solomani 
Re: Hi tech combat

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 22:08:47 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: re: High Tech Combat

At 11:29 pm 7/26/98 -0400, you wrote:
>I've liked the idea of ultra-short sensor ranges in a sci-fi RPG -
they
>make so many cinematic things possible. Starfighters flying at
>speeds and ranges akin to those of a WW2 dogfight, because
>sensor jamming makes their eyeballs the only useful collision
>avoidance and targeting tool (a la Star Wars), for example. I think
>a high-tech battelfield will be much more interesting if jamming
tech
>is so well developed that you can't trust a targeting solution (or
even
>target detection) not provided by the naked eye.

	And why do you think you'll be able to trust the naked eye...?
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 01:25:01 -0500
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@fastlane.net>
Subject: Re: Dean Files

At 06:59 PM 7/26/1998 -0400, you wrote:
>I've been a little out of the loop lately, but the Dean Files should be
>available on Jo Grant's web site, pretty much in their current entirety.
>
>On errata:  I should really get around to finding a copy of the various
>loose bits of errata that were never issued by GDW (some dedeuced by
>comparison with Striker I and some from Traveller's Digest...)
>
>Rob Dean
>robdean@access.digex.net
> 
I tried the link that I had for Jo Grant's site

http://www.maths.tcd.ie/pub/travaid
but got the Error 404 message.  Does someone else have a correct link.

I have been looking for these files for a while.

Jimmy Simpson
	nimrodd@fastlane.net
"Cannot say.
 Saying, I would know.
 Do not know.
 So cannot say."
		-Zathras (Babylon 5)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 01:43:12 -0500
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@fastlane.net>
Subject: Re: New world name in Spica

At 11:46 PM 7/26/1998 +0200, Mark Seemann wrote:

>The Prt' are said to origin from the world Prt'aow, which in the article
is referenced "Spica/Prt' (C9667C9)". This made me wonder if one could
maybe backtrack the location of that world by finding a world with a
matching UWP in the DGP-updated or HIWG sector files.
>

>2. Noone ever considered the Contact article when generating the UWPs for
Spica :-)
>
I believe that when sector data was done up in general, unless it was
established sectors, such as the Virushi in Reavers' Deep, absolutely no
attention was paid to the contact articles.  One of the best minor human
races described was the Dynchia existing in the Leonidaes (AFAIR) sector (1
sector trailing the Old Expanses), became the Hinterworlds sector when MT
was published (a name change... no big deal right?)

Then Challenge published the Hinterworlds sector data and lo and behold,
the Dynchia were no more.

Jimmy Simpson
	nimrodd@fastlane.net
"Cannot say.
 Saying, I would know.
 Do not know.
 So cannot say."
		-Zathras (Babylon 5)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 08:12:57 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: I'm back (although I never really left)

Whew!  This weekend I spent six hours straight reviewing nearly 1,600 TML
postings (some dating back to mid April)!  I'm all caught up now!

So what were we all talking about again?  Feudal Technocracies?  Pirates?
0.1c rocks?  Feuding pirates with 0.1c rocks?



James W. Lindsay     Vancouver, British Columbia
  "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
             ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

 "Be wewy wewy quiet... I'm hunting Womulins!!"
                         --Lt. Commander Fudd

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 18:48:06
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: hi tech combat

>From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
>Subject: Re Battledress
>
>Ian, you missed the entire point of the last four words of the paragraph
>you quoth... AGAINST NON-HEAVY TARGETS. Dug in infantry are just as heavy a
>target as an armor collumn; less damage potential, but also much harder to
>target individually. Light Cav, BTW, is NOT ARMORED VEHICLES as much as
>infantry with transport.
>

OK, we have terminology differences. Heavy, for me, means armour. Cavalry,
for me, means either horses or lightly armoured armour. Infantry with
integral transport I either call mech infantry, motor infantry or infantry.
Infantry without integral transport I call infantry or leg infantry (before
motorised infantry is standard, motor inf gets called motor inf, and normal
is just inf. Afterwards, motor inf is inf, and non-motor inf gets called
leg inf).

>Battledress is not a panacea for combat; I've NEVER claimed so. It is,
>however, a multiplier of infantry effectiveness in the low threat
>environments, and even in medium threat environments (ie: actual trained
>troops with decent weapons). And, since inidvidual weapons for the average
>trooper (by canonical sources) show Gauss rifles or ACR's for all infantry
>of TL's 10-15, the TL of the gauss wepaon is immaterial under MT... Under
>FF&S, if you take the time, yes it does improve.

I always built Striker units with lots of rifle grenades ... the other
thing to remember is the Imperium fights a real war, what, every 80 years
or so tops ... lots of time to forget.

>As for signatures: Current technology allows for IR suppression via
>chemical "Chill Cylinders". Use a chemical reaction that results in
>cooling. Currently frightfully expensive. Neutrino: no chance. EMR- can br
>reduced if using passive systems and built-in faraday caging, grouned
>through the boots. MAD- perenial problem with Traveller is the tech
>system's reliance upon ferro-magnetic armors. So, rahter than steel, base
>your composites on non-ferro-magnetic materials.
>

Composite laminates or non-magnetic steels come to mind. I've always
thought of BD being 'Light Ceramic Composites' myself.

>One other thing about sensing: usisng sensing equipment requires training,
>computer assistance/automation, or both. Much easier to have semi-automated
>sensors putting upa display in the hud of BD than a non-framed kit.
>

Good point.

<good stuff deleted>

>The expense is so great in comparison to soft
>infantry, and by comparative firepower (Canon sources show BD troops having
>only marginal firepower improvements over soft infantry) that the troops
>will not exceed the 20:1 cost differential in performance...

The other issue is even 'soft' infantry is in combat armour, and thus
reasonably crunchy itself.

Hmmm, if you intend to spend KCr 50 shipping your trooper 10 parsecs, and
then contract them for a year for KCr 50, then putting the MCr 1.5
investment into a BD-equipped trooper is a better deal, as the increased
training and equipment costs are not reflected in the increased shipping
costs.

Thinking of BD+grav belts as equivalents of Scout Cars, it might be cheaper
to spend the MCr 1.5 than build and then ship the scout car 10 parsecs.

Battledress may then be a 'mercenary's weapon' ... not considered cost
effective by the real military, but used by mercenary striker units when
they have a 2-3 TL advantage over the locals, and are trying to avoid
direct combat in any case.

>
>As for "Dug In" soft infantry, such infantry is a static target, much more
>suited to artillery fire. And anti-BD arty will be taken out with
>counter-battery fire, wither from ortillery, armor, or plandef... unless
>the target is a strategic necessity intact (like the power plant for a base
>which has otherwise been secured, or power plant and/or life support center
>for a domed colony) AND cannot be easily replaced/supplanted. Situation
>which, in my view, are a lot less common than some persons on this list
>seem to feel (no finger pointing here, just noting it). Why do the hard
>thing, when the easy approach will do?
>

My idea of hi-tech artillery involves pre-dropped MRL packs - basically, a
6-pack of rockets with individually homing submunitions. Counterbattery
fire, whilst not impossible, is more difficult (hmmm. I hafta build some
grav rockets, and see just how well they work).

>Striker was even more effect from armor, as it was
>2d+Pen-AV, with that 7 point difference meaning the worst result from a
>Gauss rifle was a heavy wound. Under TNE, the low damage gauss rifles
>generally had their eintire damage converted to 1 pip per die. Adds up MUCH
>faster.
>

Striker still had BD troops as dead meat to cluster bomblets and 20mm cannon.

>From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
>Subject: re: High Tech Combat
>
>Ian Whitchurch wrote:

>You've just replaced a Section-level (or Squad-level), man-portable support
>weapon with a Company-level support vehicle. You need a cheaper
>analog - but remember that the weapon you're seeking an analog for
>was never very effective, even against early WW2 tanks - on anything
>over a Panzer II it would be lucky to break a tread.

200 kJ particle weapons are pretty small. The weapon needs a length of less
than a meter, about a tenth of a cubic meter of accumulators, about a fifth
of a cubic meter for the beam pointer and a power source of about 50
kilowatts for a RoF of a shot per 20 seconds (me, I'd use a very fast
discharge battery for one shot, then a slower release battery for
recharging the first battery).

All up I think the weapon should end up at about a cubic meter, including
grav sled.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 11:47:28 +0100
From: trisen@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: Re: Dean Files

Jimmy Simpson wrote:
> I tried the link that I had for Jo Grant's site
>
> http://www.maths.tcd.ie/pub/travaid
> but got the Error 404 message. Does someone else have a correct
> link.

Try ftp://ftp.maths.tcd.ie/pub/jaymin/trav

Regards PLST
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen

___________________________________
To sign up for a free email account, visit http://www.postmaster.co.uk.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 14:06:15 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: TNS and Library Data Update

To whoever it may concern ...

I finally finished my TNS project and compiled a .hlp-file containing any
TNS articles from 1105 to 1130 I could find with help of the TML (Thank
you!).

I also compiled a version with the alternative 1116 one from GURPS. As it
is out now, I think I'll renew this one from time to time.

I also made a new version of the Library Data. It now contains the
Graphics from the Supplements.

If you find (... when you find ...) bugs or mistypings, tell me so I can
correct them.

L.A.

http://www.uni-koeln.de/~acp82/Ancients

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 08:55:03 -0400
From: "chauncey smith" <Csmith@icdc.com>
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER ON CD-ROM

Please remind me what's on the CD exectly?

- -----Original Message-----
From: Kagehira@aol.com <Kagehira@aol.com>
To: TRAVELLER@MPGN.COM <TRAVELLER@MPGN.COM>
Cc: csmith@ICDC.com <csmith@ICDC.com>
Date: Thursday, July 23, 1998 8:33 PM
Subject: re: TRAVELLER ON CD-ROM


> [[Some time ago some one wrote about a traveller CD rom Archieve.. I'm now
>intersted in this please email me with information about this Archieve
thank
>ya.]]
>
> Cost $17 till the end of the month. Money order preferred.
> Bryan Borich
> 3890 50th street
> San Diego, CA 92105-3005
>
>
>P.S. For those that have sent payment in. I'm still awaiting Galactic 2.4
>which is close to completion, but unluckily Jim got pretty much snagged by
>Real life and the hardest 10% of the work to complete so it looks like
maybe
>another week before I get to mailing them out.
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 09:16:37 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)

>At 11:19 am 7/24/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>> From: Peter H. Brenton <pbrenton@mit.edu>
>>Well, one of the reasons a Mecha are better than Grav-Tanks at least
>in my
>>mind is the fact that they can have more weapons pointing in the
>same
>>direction.
>
>	How do you figure that?

*I* Don't figure it at all, Dave, that quote was from "Legate Legion".

He was responding to me, putting down Mecha.

Pete

P.S. No aggravation on my part intended here, just correcting the attribution.

                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 06:23:27 PDT
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)

Keven wrote (but I'm not sure if he was quoting at the time):

>Standard 3I battledressed grunts were *not* meant as a replacement >for 
grav tanks, they were intended as heavily armoured highly >survivable 
*infantry*.  They can hide in places that are reasonably >man-sized.  
Can't do that with a mecha.  And even the high tech >aspects of Desert 
Storm showed you *STILL* need grunts with guns.
>

I thought that Battledress was found primarily in the Imperial Marines 
rather than the Army.  Maybe I'm wrong on that, but my take was that BD 
allowed fighting on shipboard, vacc, no grav, small arms type stuff, and 
shock value to initial landings, not running around a battlefield as 
part of the regular infantry... 


The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 10:14:32 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: New world name in Spica

Mark Seeman Wrote;
>Anyway, I suggest one of two things:
>
>1. The world Spica 2340 C966302-A is called Prt'aow, and the UWP is left
>as is. The referee then need to think up an explanation for why the social
>stats changed.
>
>2. The world Spica 2340 has it's UWP changed to C9667C9-A, and is still
>called Prt'aow.
>
>In any case, subsector O of Spica should be called Prt'.
>
>I still think updating the HIWG sector files to reflect this would be a
>good idea (again, I would be happy to do so myself), but maybe I'm the
>only one who think this?
>
>Actions? Comments?

I'm not in HIWG, but I think it is important for the articles and other
published (By "Canon" sources) material to have a correspondence with some
copy of the sector files floating around.  I support changing the HIWG maps
to reflect this anomoly.

Pete


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 07:54:30 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Mecha in Traveller (was Re: geezers)

Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
> Not necessarily. In many cases (Stalingrad?), the objective was to wipe
> out the defenders because the attackers didn't dare advance *past* the
> town until it was "neutralized". And since the attackers didn't have
> the air superiority required to bomb it to death, the poor bloody
> infantry got the job.
> 

Stalingrad is a special case...if you can afford mecha, you can afford air
superiority. If you don't have air superiority, your mecha are crispy critters.

Stalingrad is also why Hitler lost the war. That tied down one of Guderian's
pincers of armor and infantry long enough to keep him from taking Moscow,
which kept him from controlling Eastern Russia, which kept him there 'till
winter started, and the only rational response to invading during a Russian
winter is to not do it.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 09:41:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Hi tech combat

Ian or Katts writes:
> >so).  Anti-armor munitions are usually too heavy to use for suppression
> >fire, and are a weight problem even as a standard semi-auto weapon.
> 
> This comes down to doctrine, I think - essentially you have to move away
> from 'spray it with lead' and towards more of a sniper mentality.

Removing the _ability_ to do effective suppression fire is a serious
disadvantage for any force, it means that it will be essentially impossible to
take defended positions.
> 
> I would have to play with FFS2 to get a definitive answer, but I suspect
> that you could build a fairly effective man-portable fusion bazooka. The
> next question becomes what range to build it for ... a kilometer sounds
> about right.

Nah, infantry vs infantry fights usually occur in close terrain (cities, etc). 
200 meters will probably do fine.  Unfortunately, it won't fire very many
times, so it has about the same problem as the anti-armor missiles.

> >Remember, a human is a 100-200w IR source.  Powered armor could easily
> >have a lower signature than a human.
> 
> True, but a human would be easier to mask than a human plus power source.

Yes, you need more weight to mask human+power source than to mask human, but
this gets back to powered armor _carrying_ more weight.  Also, the human body
really isn't all that efficient at turning power into work and doesn't idle all
that well, a 400 kilo suit of powered armor which isn't moving much might well
use under 50w of power, and even running flat-out maybe a kilowatt, of which as
little as 25% might be waste heat (depending somewhat on your tech assumptions
about how suits are constructed).

> >Powered battle dress with gauss rifles could probably slaughter huge
> numbers of
> >such troops.  It depends a lot on the price/reliability of powered battle
> >dress, though --it probably isn't worth more than about a 5:1 force
> advantage.
> 
> The doctrine would be dig in, conceal and squeal for help when the
> clamshells turn up. It's a defensive doctrine, but thats all anything
> without 3cm of composite laminates should be doing anyway IMO.

Well, if you can pin down an infantry unit with your light battledress unit you
can either (depending on your goals) head off and cause trouble elsewhere, or
just pin them long enough for your fire support to turn their reinforced
position into slag.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 10:59:13 -0700
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: mecha

>Well, one of the reasons a Mecha are better than Grav-Tanks at least in my
>mind is the fact that they can have more weapons pointing in the same
>direction.  That gives me a sort of a pause, plus think about it this way,
>you are a common, average, everyday soldier & one day as you go out to
>fight, you see a 40' tall mechanical giant.  What would you do?

      Call in an artillery strike.  Fire missles at it's knees.  Call in
the 15 meter
tall mechanical Lizardiod.


- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
Joan of Arc: the patron saint of welders http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 11:05:28 -0700
From: Sanders <timmon@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Re Keith Brothers Products

At 03:05 PM 7/20/98 -0800, you wrote:
>I'm willing to buy copies of any of them. Wish I still had mountain and
>undersea environments. WOnder if you could see about a consolidated
>"Envioronments" volume, rather than just the one.

You're not the only one to express an interest in a new release of a
'combined' Exotic Environments product. I know several attempt have been
made (not by me) to track-down the Gamelords copyright holders, but no luck
so far.

>Of the list posted, I'm most interested in Arctic Environment.
>
>William F. Hostman
><Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
><Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
>IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
>as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 14:46:56 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Private Ryan/ Low-tech combat

     I managed to get to see "Saving Private Ryan" this weekend, thought it
would be nice to take my grandfather with me, since he was awarded the Silver
Star for his part in the D-Day invasion.  I actually regret having made him
relive that horrific experience again.  He did say that he thought the movie
was extremely good story-wise, but he also said that while the violence as
depicted in the movie was the most realistic he had seen, it STILL wasn't up
to the level of the actual landing day.

     The very small brush I had in the Army with "combat", while I always
looked back on it with some amusement as to the sillyness of the whole
incident, I can now see as so totally insignifigant.  I would like to take
this opportunity now to give a very heartfelt and warm THANK YOU to all
veterans, especially the ones who had to endure scenes and situations such as
this day after day.

     ObTrav:  Merc operations on TL 5-6 worlds.  Can your hi-tech PC's deal
with all of this blood?  I imagine there is as much violence in a hi-tech war
but at this TL it's in your face, sometimes literally.

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 14:48:44 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: LOM

Has everybody else gotten thier copy already?  I still haven't recieved mine
in the mail...it would be just my luck to have Uncle Sam lose it.  If anyone
else hasn't yet gotten thiers I'll feel better...I'm starting to worry.

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 14:46:39 -0400
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: RE: Mecha in Traveller

One of the joys of GURPS Traveller...I'll be able to use GURPS Mecha to
create that "characters crash-land on a world where the warring factions go
after each other with giant robotic killing machines" scenario I've always
wanted to run :) 

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 11:51:04 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: mecha

Mark Urbin wrote:
> 
> >Well, one of the reasons a Mecha are better than Grav-Tanks at least in my
> >mind is the fact that they can have more weapons pointing in the same
> >direction.  That gives me a sort of a pause, plus think about it this way,
> >you are a common, average, everyday soldier & one day as you go out to
> >fight, you see a 40' tall mechanical giant.  What would you do?
> 
>       Call in an artillery strike.  Fire missles at it's knees.  Call in
> the 15 meter
> tall mechanical Lizardiod.
>

damn, even I forgot about this one..."recruit several hundred local TL-0
short furry humanoids..."  ;-)

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 18:42:52 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net>
Subject: Re: Dean Files

At 05:47 AM 7/27/98 , trisen@postmaster.co.uk wrote:
>Jimmy Simpson wrote:
>> I tried the link that I had for Jo Grant's site
>>
>> http://www.maths.tcd.ie/pub/travaid
>> but got the Error 404 message. Does someone else have a correct
>> link.
>
>Try ftp://ftp.maths.tcd.ie/pub/jaymin/trav
>
>Regards PLST
>http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen

Nope no Dean files at that location unless they are in a zip file like
Islands.zip. Which does not give a clue to what is inside.

Sinbad Sam
sinbad@hex.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 17:23:21 +0000
From: edjs@bitslayer.net
Subject: Re: New world name in Spica

> Date:          Mon, 27 Jul 1998 01:43:12 -0500
> From:          Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@fastlane.net>
> Reply-to:      traveller@MPGN.COM

> I believe that when sector data was done up in general, unless it was
> established sectors, such as the Virushi in Reavers' Deep, absolutely no
> attention was paid to the contact articles.  One of the best minor human
> races described was the Dynchia existing in the Leonidaes (AFAIR) sector (1
> sector trailing the Old Expanses), became the Hinterworlds sector when MT
> was published (a name change... no big deal right?)
> 
> Then Challenge published the Hinterworlds sector data and lo and behold,
> the Dynchia were no more.

Hinterworlds Sector was not renamed - Leonidae Sector is the sector immediately 
to trailing of Hinterwords.

It looks like the author of the article was going by the known space maps 
included in the Library Data books (supplements 8 and 11), where most of the 
sectors are not named.  Old Expanses is named, but not Hinterworlds nor 
Leonidae - the author named these sectors Margin and Melande.  The Editor notes 
that the article was written without reference to the Atlas of the Imperium, 
and conflicts with it.

However, the Council of Leh Perash in subsector-P of the HinterWorlds is 
exactly where the article placed the Comitia of Dynchia (plus I,J,M,N of 
Leonidae); I'd suggest replacing the Council with the Comitia in your universe.


- --
Edward Swatschek
edjs@bitslayer.net - edjs@mindlink.net - ICQ 2684960
http://home.mindlink.net/edjs/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 17:23:21 +0000
From: edjs@bitslayer.net
Subject: Re: Vilani / Solomani

> Date:          Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:14:23 +0100 (BST)
> From:          Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk>
>
> >DGP's Vilani & Vargr ("Cogs & Dogs") has the fullest writeup.
> 
> and I thought it was "Traders and Raiders", here I go wrong again ...

Well, that's another way of naming them, but you're not going to start any good 
bar-fights with names like that. :)


- --
Edward Swatschek
edjs@bitslayer.net - edjs@mindlink.net - ICQ 2684960
http://home.mindlink.net/edjs/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 20:40:28 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Vilani / Solomani 

> > >DGP's Vilani & Vargr ("Cogs & Dogs") has the fullest writeup.
> > 
> > and I thought it was "Traders and Raiders", here I go wrong again ...
> 
> Well, that's another way of naming them, but you're not going to start any
> good bar-fights with names like that. :)

I've always been more partial to 'Wogs & Dogs'.

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 17:40:26 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Hi tech combat

In mail you write:

>> >Remember, a human is a 100-200w IR source.  Powered armor could easily
>> >have a lower signature than a human.
>> 
>> True, but a human would be easier to mask than a human plus power source.
>
> Yes, you need more weight to mask human+power source than to mask
> human, but this gets back to powered armor _carrying_ more weight.
> Also, the human body really isn't all that efficient at turning power
> into work and doesn't idle all that well, a 400 kilo suit of powered
> armor which isn't moving much might well use under 50w of power, and
> even running flat-out maybe a kilowatt, of which as little as 25%
> might be waste heat (depending somewhat on your tech assumptions
> about how suits are constructed).

You're suffering from a common misconception. Namely the idea that the
energy used for "work" *doesn't* wind up as heat.

Admittedly, a powered suit will do better than most, because a lot of
energy goes into gross physical movement. Still, a lot of the energy
used will wind up as heat or other EM radiation.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #691
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Tuesday, July 28 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 692



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Dean Files again ... _bradley@nbnbooks.com,        cherylstafford@juno.ïÿéïÿéïÿé(ïÿé
Pocket Empire Clarifications requested
Re: Stalingrad?
Re: TNE Combat
eclipse entertainment inc
Re: Mecha in Traveller
Re: mecha
Re: mecha
FW: Battledress (was re: High Tech Combat)
Interesting images
Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**
Re: Dean Files
SOpM Spreadsheet... Anyone Interested?
Re: SOpM Spreadsheet... Anyone Interested?
BD use
GURPS Traveller (long)
Re: Some thoughts about Milieu 0 (Less Long)
Marine baised Starports
Re: SOpM Spreadsheet... Anyone Interested?
Revised First Survey data, especially Core
TNS entry
Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**
Martial Arts Combat Systems

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 21:28:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rob Dean <robdean@access.digex.net>
Subject: Dean Files again ... _bradley@nbnbooks.com,        cherylstafford@juno.ïÿéïÿéïÿé(ïÿé

Hmmm...has anyone seen Jo Grant posting lately? Perhaps a direct message
would be in order.

Barring that, I do have archive disks of the stuff. Somewhere.

Rob Dean
robdean@access.digex.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 13:43:31 +1200
From: Brody Dunn <bdunn@ihug.co.nz>
Subject: Pocket Empire Clarifications requested

In an attempt to waste even more time at work I am trying to code up an
Access database to assist in running Pocket Empire campaigns.

While starting I have found a few ambiguities I need help with.

My first query is related to the social standing of the ruling family.  How
is this determined to start with?

As each persons social standing is related to the Archon (or head of the
family) minus the number of steps from the Archon, is the brother of the
Archon of the same Social standing as the Archons Children?

If my Archon has a SOC of B, his siblings should all be A.
The Archons children will be A and the children of the Archons Siblings
will all be 9.  Is this correct?

Later, when the Archon resigns and his heir (assumed to be the eldest
child) steps up the ex-Archon has now got a SOC of A, the ex-Archons
siblings go to a SOC of 9 and their children go to 8.  The new Archons
siblings stay the same and all descendents of the new Archon increase by
one.  Is this example correct?

Putting it all down like this has made it easier to see.

Any comment would be appreciated.

Thanks

Brody

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 19:05:29 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Stalingrad?

>Stalingrad is also why Hitler lost the war. That tied down one of Guderian's
>pincers of armor and infantry long enough to keep him from taking Moscow,
>which kept him from controlling Eastern Russia, which kept him there 'till
>winter started, and the only rational response to invading during a Russian
>winter is to not do it.

  Stalingrad started in fall `42; I suspect that this really refers to
the encirclement battles in the Ukraine in late summer `41, as Guderian
was dismissed from command before 01/42.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 22:04:20 -0700
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
Subject: Re: TNE Combat

Eris Reddoch wrote:
...
> head.  It *looks* like there are two ways of handling pen, one for
> personal weapons and one for vehicle/ship weapons, I don't think that's
> true, but it sure looked that way to me.

Actually, that is true.  It's been a while since I looked at TNE but I
remember that Dave Nilsen explained it too me.  IIRC, the personnel
combat uses PEN as a multiplier of the armor and subtracts that from 
the damage; while the vehicle combat PEN is compared against the 
vehicle's armor to see if the shot got through.  I wasn't too happy with
the way it was handled; but, I didn't have much vehicle combat in my
campaign so I didn't worry about it too much.

Kristian

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 02:58:43 -0700
From: Skoal <skoal@mail.gci-net.com>
Subject: eclipse entertainment inc

Anyone have Info. on what happen to eclipse entertainment inc?
They run the TNE- PBM game.


Thanks

"Preserve what we created, Norris, and remember what we stood for."
                               - Strephon, 179-1126

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 03:13:48 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Mecha in Traveller

> One of the joys of GURPS Traveller...I'll be able to use GURPS Mecha to
> create that "characters crash-land on a world where the warring factions
go
> after each other with giant robotic killing machines" scenario I've
always
> wanted to run :) 

What would happen if the players brought one to the 3I?

Gee, I like to use the 1I in my Macross II campaign as the Marduk Empire.

> Allen

Legate Legion, Militant Jewish Terrorist
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"The system does not matter, its ROLE-Playing that matters." - Me to
Acid_Blue, Chuckles, & Rob the Lumberjackman.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 03:14:35 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: mecha

> damn, even I forgot about this one..."recruit several hundred local TL-0
> short furry humanoids..."  ;-)

Sorry, you need the force & a beautiful princess for that job....

> Bruce Johnson

Legate Legion, Militant Jewish Terrorist
Cult 'O Gabe's Holy Avenger in charge of Military Afairs
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"The system does not matter, its ROLE-Playing that matters." - Me to
Acid_Blue, Chuckles, & Rob the Lumberjackman.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 03:15:19 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: mecha

- ----------
> From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: mecha
> Date: Monday, July 27, 1998 10:59 AM
> 
> >Well, one of the reasons a Mecha are better than Grav-Tanks at least in
my
> >mind is the fact that they can have more weapons pointing in the same
> >direction.  That gives me a sort of a pause, plus think about it this
way,
> >you are a common, average, everyday soldier & one day as you go out to
> >fight, you see a 40' tall mechanical giant.  What would you do?
> 
>       Call in an artillery strike.  Fire missles at it's knees.  Call in
> the 15 meter
> tall mechanical Lizardiod.

In other words call out Mecha to fight Mecha?

Legate Legion, Militant Jewish Terrorist
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"The system does not matter, its ROLE-Playing that matters." - Me to
Acid_Blue, Chuckles, & Rob the Lumberjackman.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 08:44:04 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: FW: Battledress (was re: High Tech Combat)

Ian Whitchurch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hmmm, if you intend to spend KCr 50 shipping your trooper 10 parsecs, and
then contract them for a year for KCr 50, then putting the MCr 1.5
investment into a BD-equipped trooper is a better deal, as the increased
training and equipment costs are not reflected in the increased shipping
costs.

Thinking of BD+grav belts as equivalents of Scout Cars, it might be cheaper
to spend the MCr 1.5 than build and then ship the scout car 10 parsecs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Just read a book by David Weber, _Path of the Fury_. Main character
was a member of the Imperial Cadre - best of the best of the best
drop commandoes. In his book, each drop commando (when you
factor in recruitment, training, cyber implants that would make a
Cyberpunk Solo envious, and a nice suit of battle dress) ends up
costing the Empire about as much as a Frigate.

What do you use such an expensive asset for? Very, very surgical
missions. High-profile hostage rescue. Capturing the bridge crew of
an enemy dreadnaught. A rebellion can be stopped without nuking
the planet from orbit - if a squad of these walking nightmares can get
into the rebel headquarters.

They're described as supermen, as the scariest troops the resources
and technology of a thousand worlds can produce. The Emperor has
budgeted for 10,000 of these elite troops, but tough recruiting standards
keep the drop commandoes from ever being at this strength level.
They aren't immortal, though: a traitor in the book gives them bad 
intelligence on a hostage rescue, they go in with a company and come
out with barely a squad. In the right situation, they're the best possible
asset to have. In the wrong situation, they're casualties.

(btw, for those of you looking for reasons to have pirates show up
in a campaign, Weber's _Path of the Fury_ puts together a good
one - I'd tell, but it would be a bit of a spoiler for the book.)

One of the LBB's , _Broadsword_, describes Zhodani Commandoes.
Find the <1% or so of your troops who can master the psionic discipline
of teleportation. Now you can put them almost anywhere, an amazing
advantage. You want to capitalize on this, so give them battledress,
MP energy weapons, the best training and support you can afford.
You don't want to blow this advantage, so what do you use these troops
on? Do you teleport them into the path of a grav tank assault? Or do you
drop them into the middle of his headquarters bunker where his CO is
sitting in shirtsleeves? In _Broadsword_, they don't send these
Commandoes after the combat-armored, well-armed Mercenary
contingent - they send them after the crew of the Broadsword while the
mercs are away... 

You generally can't bring as many troops with you interstellar as the
defender can raise, when doing interstellar warfare. The ones you bring
have to be the best, with the best equipment and training, because
they are going to be outnumbered. Battledress won't make them
invulnerable, but it couldn't hurt.



Walt Smith


Walt Smith
System Manager
Hartwick College
Oneonta, NY
smithw@hartwick.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 08:44:31 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Interesting images

Stumbled on an archive of copyrighted free images - modular components
for starships, cut and paste them with your favorite graphics program.

http://www.dreamsstudio.com/starforce.html

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 13:38:49 +0100
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**

>>>Has BITS checked with Crazy Egor's, Discount Games, Dragon's Trove,
>>>or Titan Games to see if they would be interested in stocking a few
>>>copies?

>>   Suggest it to them!

>I thought I was.  Aren't there any BITS folks on the TML?  If there
>aren't, why the heck not!  ;->


Yes, there's lots (at least a few occasionally post something) of BITS folk
on TML but we're just members of BITS.  It would be up to Andy Lilly to
arrange something like this....


...and to the best of my knowledge he has been endeavouring to do something
along these lines for some time now.  (I don't know exactly what as I'm not
privvy to such details, but I'd guess he's thought of all the obvious
routes.)  I understand there may have been problems or a hold up with
whatever was in the works.

I have a suspicion he is away on holiday at present, but no doubt he will
respond (en masse if the past is anything to go by) to these suggestions
when he can.



>Actually, that's not a bad idea.  If there is as much interest in here
>as I think there is to get BITS books over here in North America, then



Believe me, I'm certain that Andy has a good idea that there is 'much
interest' in the US over buying the BITS products.  I'm sure he's as keen
as anyone to get you guys to buy these books.  If he does forget, I'll keep
reminding him!  I'd have loved for you all to have a chance to buy my
bibliography!  (And not for the money - what money? - but because I think
it's genuinely useful.)


While I'm here, I ought to say that I've nothing but praise for Leisure
Games' service too.  (via the post and in person).


tc

(And to save time later as someone invariably asks every time I mention it:
The Traveller Bibliography is 108 pages of details about, contents of, and
comments on *every* Traveller book and game ever published.)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 08:56:52 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Dean Files

>At 05:47 AM 7/27/98 , trisen@postmaster.co.uk wrote:
>>Jimmy Simpson wrote:
>>> I tried the link that I had for Jo Grant's site
>>>
>>> http://www.maths.tcd.ie/pub/travaid
>>> but got the Error 404 message. Does someone else have a correct
>>> link.
>>
>>Try ftp://ftp.maths.tcd.ie/pub/jaymin/trav
>>
>>Regards PLST
>>http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen
>
>Nope no Dean files at that location unless they are in a zip file like
>Islands.zip. Which does not give a clue to what is inside.

Jo told me that he has those files zipped up on his hard disk, but that the
aforementioned web site did not have them any longer (something about the
hosts cleaning house nad finding they hadn't been accessed in over a year).

The Dean Files shall appear.  Give me another day or two.

Pete


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 09:50:28 -0400
From: Michael Kent <mkent@atlantic.net>
Subject: SOpM Spreadsheet... Anyone Interested?

I'm working on the finishing touches to my spreadsheet that implements
the normal space and jumpspace procedure flowcharts from the back of
DGP's Starship Operators Manual.  How many of you would be interested in
getting a copy?  As I have no web page of my own, if there's enough
interest, would someone like to volunteer to host it on their web page?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 09:21:29 -0500
From: Talisman <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: SOpM Spreadsheet... Anyone Interested?

What spread sheet program are you using?

Michael Kent wrote:

> I'm working on the finishing touches to my spreadsheet that implements
> the normal space and jumpspace procedure flowcharts from the back of
> DGP's Starship Operators Manual.  How many of you would be interested in
> getting a copy?  As I have no web page of my own, if there's enough
> interest, would someone like to volunteer to host it on their web page?



- --
My god, it's full of stars!


Http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/4467

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 10:50:47 -0700
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: BD use

Greg Smith typed:
>Keven wrote (but I'm not sure if he was quoting at the time):
>>Standard 3I battledressed grunts were *not* meant as a replacement >for 
>grav tanks, they were intended as heavily armoured highly >survivable 
>*infantry*.  They can hide in places that are reasonably >man-sized.  
>Can't do that with a mecha.  And even the high tech >aspects of Desert 
>Storm showed you *STILL* need grunts with guns.
>I thought that Battledress was found primarily in the Imperial Marines 
>rather than the Army.  Maybe I'm wrong on that, but my take was that BD 
>allowed fighting on shipboard, vacc, no grav, small arms type stuff, and 
>shock value to initial landings, not running around a battlefield as 
>part of the regular infantry... 

   I agree with this.  Imperial Fleet Marines get BattleDress to maximize
their effectiveness.  There is a limit to how many you can carry onboard,
so you make each one as nasty as possible.

Somebody else types:
>My idea of hi-tech artillery involves pre-dropped MRL packs - basically, a
>6-pack of rockets with individually homing submunitions. Counterbattery
>fire, whilst not impossible, is more difficult (hmmm. I hafta build some
>grav rockets, and see just how well they work).
    Good idea.  Even 2 missle racks that each BD Trooper carries and leaves
someplace .  You paint the target (or send the location back to the
missle), have it launch, and let the counter battery response pound
someplace you're not.


- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for 
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked" 
                 http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 10:36:34 -0600
From: Loren Wiseman <lkw@io.com>
Subject: GURPS Traveller (long)

OK, GURPS Traveller made it to the printer 1 day late with (literally)
second to spare (we got the manuscript to the Fed Ex office just as they
were closing the doors). Tentatively, we hope to get it back in time to
have it on the shelves by early September, but see below.

Does this mean it'll only be one day late getting back to us? Maybe -- let
me explain how printers work: Because presses cost in megadollars (at least
the ones you use to get quality products) they cannot afford to let them
sit idle, so printers try to schedule every minute as far in advance as
possible. If you miss your place in the queue, sometimes you have to get in
the back of the line, sometimes they can fit you in (depends on a lot of
things, like how big a job it is, and how much your business means to the
printer, and how nicely you ask the person who does the scheduling). What
this means for GURPS Traveller is that the printer cannot promise us that
our one day delay will translate into one day delay at the other end. It
might be one day, it might be a few days, it might be a week. Gahd forbid,
it could be two or more weeks. We won't know until the printer tells us,
and that might not be until mid-August.

The Hardback is another story: it is going to take a few weeks longer than
the paperback edition, because it takes longer to do a HB than a regular
paperback. Since we can't afford to delay the release of the paperback
until the HB is done, we're going to release the HB version later,
hopefully towards the end of September. You'll need the GURPS basic rules
book in order to play, but you could squeak by with GURPS Lite, a 32-page
pdf booklet of the condensed GURPS rules which is available free off the SJ
Games website (www.sjgames.com/).

In any case, now is the time to start pestering your FLGS (in a nice way,
of course). Distributors order based on retailer requests, and retailers
request on the basis of consumer queries, so if you want to see GURPS
Traveller products on the shelves, now is the time to start asking. Make
sure the FLGS owner knows that this is GURPS Traveller you are asking
about, or there may be confusion. So far, the buzz among retailers and
distributors has been good, and we've been sending out a promotional poster
(maybe some of you have seen it). We'll also be doing a T-shirt (more on
this later).

Upcoming releases include Behind the Claw, a sourcebook for the Spinward
Marches, and a Mercenary sourcebook. I want to have a merchant/trade &
commerce book follow closely after that, but that brings me to my next
point:

I need someone to write a 128 page book dealing with trade and commerce in
GURPS Traveller. Hopefully, this should be pretty detailed, using the world
characteristics to determine what kinds of cargos will be available,  and
using the GURPS game mechanics. Fortunately for the author, there aren't
that many GURPS mechanics dealing with interstellar trade (I haven't been
able to find more than a few sentences), and will need to mesh in with the
bare-bones rules I included in the GT basic rules.

Any Takers? Contact me outside the list, and we can discuss details.

***************************

Our over-worked web wrangler will be posting samples of text and illos from
GURPS Traveller on the GT web page as soon as possible, but I can't
guarantee that will happen this week. We got some art from Rob Caswell
(some re-cycled, some previously unpublished) and quite a biut of new stuff
from Tom Peters. I daresay some of you will remember these two illustrators?

Someone asked if Behind the Claw will include Traveller-style UPPS: the
answer is no, UPPS are not part of the way GURPS does things. It is
possible for us to translate the stats into UPP form and put that on the
web, and I'll see if this can't be done by the time the book comes out (I
don't think much has changed between 1110 and 1120).



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     SJ Games
     LKW@IO.COM
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 08:43:06 PDT
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Some thoughts about Milieu 0 (Less Long)

Eris wrote a great piece on Milieu 0 and possible campaigns based on it 
[lots snipped below].  I thought it was really well thought out, and 
gave lots of adventure hooks.  

I've only played CT, and have not even seen the other versions (other 
than sitting on the shelf).  That said, I have no idea, apart from what 
people have said on the TML, of what the T4 system background was.  I'd 
hope that the type of things that Eris wrote were in there.  Thanks Eris 
for putting it down here...

Comments on Politics:  Politics is fun.  There needs to be more than 
just politics, though, I agree.  IMCTU, I'm putting together the upper 
levels of sector government and I anticipate having some high-level 
intrigue.  Eris' ideas will help me...even if it is only on a "local 
power base" level.

>I suggest Milieu 0 cover the 60 years from -30 to +30, and
>at the beginning of Milieu 0 make the Federation a compact, 
>sub-sector sized, state...bigger than its neighbors, but not much 
>bigger.
>

How long is the Milieu 0 time period and how big is the "empire"?

>Campaign Type One -- Securing the Imperium
>  --- Sub-Campaign:  Securing Our Rightful place in the Imperium
>  --- Sub-Campaign:  Securing the Imperium's Rightful place in the
>                     Galaxy
>  --- Sub-Campaign:  A Pirate's Life
>Campaign Style Two -- Expanding the Envelope
>  --- Sub-Campaign:  Survey and Contact
>  --- Sub-Campaign:  Pursuit of Knowledge
>  --- Sub-Campaign:  The Early Bird Catches the Worm

I like these ideas.  It allows for the full range of the Traveller 
system to be used.  Power, Diplomacy, Bribery, danger, victory, windfall 
profit, massive losses, tradewar, *Piracy*... and many of them together.  
And thanks for the player ideas, too.

>Book One: _Cleon's Vision: Rise to Power!_ 
>Book Two: _Growth of the Imperium_
>Book Three: _Pushing back the Night_
>
>  Time period -30 to +30.  This is the system creation, development and
>  exploration book we didn't get in T4.  < grump ;-> I see it as a
>  combination of _Scouts_, _Merchant Prince_, _Mercenary_ and _World
>  Builder's Handbook_.  Yes, that sounds like a lot, but the basic
>  creation systems for all these kinds of characters and the basic 
world
>  creation system would already be in the Main Book, so I think
>  everything else would fit into one book.  The book could present
>  advanced trade rules, exploratory trade rules and system creation
>  procedures.  It could detail what Scouts do and how they do it.  It
>  could give the details of forming and campaigning on colonies.  It
>  could explain the different types of Mercenary tickets and how to run
>  those kinds of campaigns.  It might even be a lead in to a book on
>  building economic and political empires (ala Pocket Empires II).
>  

I particularly like your ideas for book three.  I'd include a bit more 
on establishing companies and the expansion of market share with the 
attendent tradewars, etc.  Merchants need to catch hot plasma 
sometimes...  ;->  

So have we been told what setting T5 is going to be?

The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 12:25:28 -0500
From: "Joul, Christopher" <JOUC1@Aerial1.com>
Subject: Marine baised Starports

A while ago someone was proposing, a sea based starport,  I just bumped into
this while brousing the web...

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/space/sealaunch/

In their own words...

'Proven, reliable components from the world's premier companies are being
combined to create a revolutionary satellite launch service that maximizes
payload capability, extends spacecraft life, and provides unprecedented
customer support.
Our marine-based operations and highly automated systems, coupled with a
customized launch location, deliver up  to 5,000 kilograms of spacecraft
mass to geostationary transfer orbit. Launch to any orbit from the same
mobile platform.
Using innovative operations and unmatched integration expertise, the Sea
Launch Limited Partnership of Boeing Commercial Space Company, Kvaerner
Maritime a.s, RSC Energia, and KB Yuzhnoye/PO Yuzhmash is sweeping launch
services into the next century.'

Looks like someone else had the same idea, and then got the backing to make
it a reality.

Chris.
(No Sig)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 18:47:27 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: SOpM Spreadsheet... Anyone Interested?

On Tue, 28 Jul 1998 09:50:28 -0400, Michael Kent wrote:

> I'm working on the finishing touches to my spreadsheet that implements
> the normal space and jumpspace procedure flowcharts from the back of
> DGP's Starship Operators Manual.  How many of you would be interested in
> getting a copy?  As I have no web page of my own, if there's enough
> interest, would someone like to volunteer to host it on their web page?

I've got plenty of space, but I'd recommend using someone elses instead if
their's is a *dedicated* Traveller page.



James W. Lindsay     Vancouver, British Columbia
  "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
             ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

 "Be wewy wewy quiet... I'm hunting Womulins!!"
                         --Lt. Commander Fudd

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 98 19:54:33 +0100
From: Fred Hood <Fred@cetaganda.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Revised First Survey data, especially Core

Please help, someone out there has a Traveller site with the 
'historically consistent' revision of First Survey (where is Shudusham in 
your universe?). I think NN managed to crash before I could add a 
bookmark, so I'd be grateful for the URL of this site.

Fred.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 21:59:57 +0200
From: "Mark Seemann" <dko3835@vip.cybercity.dk>
Subject: TNS entry

Maybe someone will find this result of our latest MegaTraveller session
useful/interesting/funny:

Lunion (2124 Spinward Marches A995984-D) Date: 001-1119

Unrest has erupted on Lunion after a second, successful assassination attempt
yesterday killed the Count of Binled, Draco Sylas.

A few days before, terrorists killed what turned out to be a clone of Sylas, in
a hangar in Binled castle using TDX explosives. The criminals are still not
apprehended.

On 365-1118, during the traditional inspection of the Count's guard, criminals
struck again, once more using TDX. The Count was instantly killed together with
several members of the guard. Spectators were relatively unharmed due to the
special nature of TDX, but panick ensued with considerable damage to people
and property.

Elements of the Count's guard opened fire against civilians as looting and rioting spread through Binled City.

Later during the night to Holiday, Lamarr Nilpoat, seneschal to Duke Giblinick of Lunion, declared the City of Binled in a state of Martial Law.

Colonial fleet elements apparently loyal to the deceased Count Sylas then moved to bombard the arcology with meson fire. With the Imperial fleet stationed at Lunion's naval base away battling the Aslan to rimward, the colonial fleet looked like it would make short process of the city.

In a surprise turn of events, elements of the 43rd fleet, stationed at Capon (2324 Spinward Marches) jumped insystem, ordering all forces loyal to Count Sylas to surrender immediately under orders from Archduke Norris himself.

"To the inhabitants of Lunion and all Imperial citizens: This is vice admiral Arthur Khi Salinlikhigu from the 43rd fleet on a mission from Archduke Norris. Subversive elements in Lunion's nobility has attempted high treason against Norris, Domain of Deneb and the Imperium. The leader of this group is Count Draco Sylas, and we demand that he and his forces immediately surrender."

The situation is still unresolved at this time. 

Mark Seemann
mark@dk-online.dk (home)
mse@oticon.dk (work)
http://www2.dk-online.dk/users/mark_seemann

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 13:07:23 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**

>>>http://www.btinternet.com/~leisuregames
>>>mailto://leisuregames@btinternet.com
>>
>>	Unfortunately, they apparently don't allow for online submission of
>>payment info--before you can order, you have to *telephone* or *fax*
>>your credit card number and expiration ...

Could somebody convert Leisure Games' business hours to Pacific Daylight
time?  I get out of bed at 0250 for work anyway, so calling them in the
middle of the night is no problem...
- --

Douglas Berry
dberry@hooked.net
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry
"Come to Life, Iron Chef!"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 16:39:17 -0500
From: Alex Ingram <ingram@airmail.net>
Subject: Martial Arts Combat Systems

I'm starting up a Traveller group here in Dallas after be away from the game for six
years and I have most of the material I need to make it a success, except I have not
found a solid martial arts combat system that's comprehensive enough and yet elegant in
mechanics. I've looked at a number of systems from a variety of other sci-fi and fantasy
games. Thanks!

Alex Ingram

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #692
**********************************

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Traveller-digest      Wednesday, July 29 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 693



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Martial Arts Combat Systems
Re: SOpM Spreadsheet... Anyone Interested?
Re: Revised First Survey data, especially Core
Re: SOpM Spreadsheet... Anyone Interested?
mecha
Nature of the Imperium
Re: mecha
Re: GURPS Traveller (long)
Re: Nature of the Imperium
Re: Nature of the Imperium 
active sensor ranges
Re: Some thoughts about Milieu 0 (Less Long)
Re: active sensor ranges
Re: Some thoughts about Milieu 0 (Less Long)
Newbie Questions
Re: TNE Combat
Re: SOpM Spreadsheet... Anyone Interested?
Re: Some thoughts about Milieu 0 (Less Long)
Re: Some thoughts about Milieu 0 (Less Long)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:06:30 -0500
From: Talisman <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Martial Arts Combat Systems

ve you seen the Irklan rules?

Alex Ingram wrote:

> I'm starting up a Traveller group here in Dallas after be away from the game for six
> years and I have most of the material I need to make it a success, except I have not
> found a solid martial arts combat system that's comprehensive enough and yet elegant in
> mechanics. I've looked at a number of systems from a variety of other sci-fi and fantasy
> games. Thanks!
>
> Alex Ingram



- --
My god, it's full of stars!


Http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/4467

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 15:18:57 -0700
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Re: SOpM Spreadsheet... Anyone Interested?

I'll be happy to host it on my page.

douglas

E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller
IMTU tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls 
The early bird gets the worm, BUT
   the second mouse gets the cheese!
- -----Original Message-----
From: James Lindsay <jlindsay@direct.ca>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Tuesday, July 28, 1998 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: SOpM Spreadsheet... Anyone Interested?


>On Tue, 28 Jul 1998 09:50:28 -0400, Michael Kent wrote:
>
>> I'm working on the finishing touches to my spreadsheet that implements
>> the normal space and jumpspace procedure flowcharts from the back of
>> DGP's Starship Operators Manual.  How many of you would be interested in
>> getting a copy?  As I have no web page of my own, if there's enough
>> interest, would someone like to volunteer to host it on their web page?
>
>I've got plenty of space, but I'd recommend using someone elses instead if
>their's is a *dedicated* Traveller page.
>
>
>
>James W. Lindsay     Vancouver, British Columbia
>  "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
>             ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)
>
> "Be wewy wewy quiet... I'm hunting Womulins!!"
>                         --Lt. Commander Fudd
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 15:20:34 -0700
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Re: Revised First Survey data, especially Core

I believe there is a copy at the Missouri Archive
 http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/traveller/archive/T4/ )

douglas

E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller
IMTU tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls
The early bird gets the worm, BUT
   the second mouse gets the cheese!
- -----Original Message-----
From: Fred Hood <Fred@cetaganda.demon.co.uk>
To: TML <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Tuesday, July 28, 1998 11:59 AM
Subject: Revised First Survey data, especially Core


>Please help, someone out there has a Traveller site with the
>'historically consistent' revision of First Survey (where is Shudusham in
>your universe?). I think NN managed to crash before I could add a
>bookmark, so I'd be grateful for the URL of this site.
>
>Fred.
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 18:19:25 -0700
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: SOpM Spreadsheet... Anyone Interested?

I've got room at the Traveller Gearhead page.


- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for 
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked" 
                 http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 18:21:10 -0700
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: mecha

>Call in
>> the 15 meter
>> tall mechanical Lizardiod.
>In other words call out Mecha to fight Mecha?

     But my mecha's a Lizardiod.  It goes to 11.



- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
Vikings? There ain't no vikings here. Just us honest farmers. The town was 
burning, the villagers were dead. They didn't need those sheep anyway. 
That's our story and we're sticking to it.  
                 http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 19:01:11 -0400
From: Matthew Harelick <matth@CYBERNEX.NET>
Subject: Nature of the Imperium

Hi:

While I have played traveller for awhile, I have never used the Imperium setting,
and I have some questions about it.

Please note that in terms of Imperium settings the latest I have is Megatraveller.

I have heard many terms such as Imperial Citizen, worlds aligned with the Imperium, etc.

I have heard other contradicting things like:

The Imperium is simply a powerful trade organization.

According to Dulinor "The Imperium only rules the space between the worlds"

World governments are sovereign, they rule themselves. Although they can
be influenced by outside forces.

So, when the Imperial Navy / Marines go into action, what do they defend?

What is the Imperium, what is the value of Imperial Citizenry, what does
the Imperium consider itself sovereign over?

Matthew Harelick

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 16:07:30 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: mecha

> >Call in
> >> the 15 meter
> >> tall mechanical Lizardiod.
> >In other words call out Mecha to fight Mecha?
>      But my mecha's a Lizardiod.  It goes to 11.

My Mecha is a VF-2SS SAP Special.  It goes to 12.

Legate Legion, Militant Jewish Terrorist
Cult 'O Gabe's Holy Avenger in charge of Military Afairs
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"The system does not matter, its ROLE-Playing that matters." - Me to
Acid_Blue, Chuckles, & Rob the Lumberjackman.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 21:00:42 +0200
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller (long)

Loren Wiseman wrote:
> 
> OK, GURPS Traveller made it to the printer 1 day late with (literally)
Hooray!

> In any case, now is the time to start pestering your FLGS (in a nice way,
> of course). Distributors order based on retailer requests, and retailers
does asking once every day for the next 2 months count?
> 
> Upcoming releases include Behind the Claw, a sourcebook for the Spinward
That sounds excellent and almost certainly a must-buy for me.
> Marches, and a Mercenary sourcebook. I want to have a merchant/trade &
> commerce book follow closely after that,
the other two, i don´t know...
might be interesting but probably not my idea of a good topic for a
gurps sourcebook.
You might want to try and have more background books instead. Those will
probably find a larger audience, and will be more fun to read (Me, for
example, i haven´t played traveller in years, but bought loads of
sourcebooks and adventures, old and new, just to read them...)

> 
> Our over-worked web wrangler will be posting samples of text and illos from
> GURPS Traveller on the GT web page as soon as possible, but I can't
> guarantee that will happen this week. We got some art from Rob Caswell
> (some re-cycled, some previously unpublished) and quite a biut of new stuff
> from Tom Peters. I daresay some of you will remember these two illustrators?

Hiphiphip hoooooray! Three cheers for Loren! This is excellent news!

> 
> Someone asked if Behind the Claw will include Traveller-style UPPS: the
> answer is no, UPPS are not part of the way GURPS does things. It is
> possible for us to translate the stats into UPP form and put that on the
> web, and I'll see if this can't be done by the time the book comes out (I
> don't think much has changed between 1110 and 1120).

my feelings exactly: if you don´t have great surprises planned for the
Domain, the data from the SM-supplement will probably still be good,
maybe adjusted according to the changes in DGP´s MTJ 1,2, in so far as
the changes are not related to the rebellion (eligible:TL, maybe Pop,
and even Gov)

Well anyway, i´m looking forward to the next two books!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 16:57:55 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Nature of the Imperium

Matthew Harelick wrote:
> 
> Hi:
> 
> While I have played traveller for awhile, I have never used the Imperium setting,
> and I have some questions about it.
> 
> Please note that in terms of Imperium settings the latest I have is Megatraveller.
> 
> I have heard many terms such as Imperial Citizen, worlds aligned with the Imperium, etc.
> 
> I have heard other contradicting things like:
> 
> The Imperium is simply a powerful trade organization.
> 
> According to Dulinor "The Imperium only rules the space between the worlds"
> 
> World governments are sovereign, they rule themselves. Although they can
> be influenced by outside forces.

A reasonable analogy, so long as it isn't pushed far at all, is that the
Imperium is to it's member worlds what the US Federal government is to
the states (please...no long rants about the evil federal gummint from
anyone, ok!); the states conduct their own affairs according to their
own laws and whims, the fed regulates trade between the states, provides
for the general defense, and settles disputes between the states.

The actual sticking points of the matter is a bit murkier than that.
Acceptance into the Imperium as a member means that the world's
government(s) acknowledges that their sovergnity ends at the edge of
their atmosphere (or their 100 dia limit depending on how you play it).
Imperial starports are extraterritorial, much like embassies or trade
compounds in asia during the first years of contact with European
traders.

In return for this reduction of their power and submission to a larger
state, they're protected by the Imperial Navy.

Imperial Citizens is actually another poorly defined term, variously it
has meant a sapient being born or naturalized in Imperial space
signifying nothing much, other than 'I'm not Zhodani', to a specific
class of citizen, with differing rights, mostly rights of appeal to
Imperial jurisdiction.

Canon is rife with contradictions over exactly what and how minutely the
Imperium rules..but effectively, they are the big guns and can cut a
planet off from outside commerce if they want to, but generally the
Imperium doesn't try to micromanage world governments.

One thing Dulinor was fighting for was having the Imperium take a
greater role in running the worlds within the Imperium, making it a much
more comprehensive '1-Imperium' government; that's what he was talking
about when he was going on over "The Imperiums responsibility to it's
citizens".

Again, the actualities are muddier. Typically, as the Imperium grew
during the years of expansion, the rulers of the various worlds joining
the new Imperium were co-opted into it by making them Nobles, with
representation in the Moot, so the various woirlds were not without
representaion at the highest levels, and nobles running a world would
tend to run it in conformance with what benefitted the Imperium as a
whole.

Dulinor wanted to go farther than that; he wanted to extend the Imperal
rule to ground on all the planets of the Imperium, reducing the member
states nominal independence in favor of a single huge state.

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 20:13:27 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Nature of the Imperium 

> While I have played traveller for awhile, I have never used the Imperium
> setting, and I have some questions about it.
> 
> The Imperium is simply a powerful trade organization.

Interstellar trade is considered a Good Thing in the Imperium, as it kept 
fresh ideas brewing up all the time.
 
> According to Dulinor "The Imperium only rules the space between the worlds"

Correct.  Planetary matters were the responsibility of the planetary 
government.  This responsibility ends at the edge of the planetary atmosphere 
or the 100 diameter limit in the case of airless planets, IIRC.
 
> World governments are sovereign, they rule themselves. Although they can
> be influenced by outside forces.

By blockades, interstellar invasions, megacorporation-sponsored domestic 
violence, a boatload of PC's taking shore leave...
 
> So, when the Imperial Navy / Marines go into action, what do they defend?

The planetary government's right to go to hell in its own way without outside 
interference.
 
Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:55:55 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: active sensor ranges

 
I've never claimed that the (long, but not as long as passive) sensor ranges
in FFS2/DSR were terribly definitive, but here's an interesting data point 
for those of us who believe in long ranges:
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
(from a JPL press releast)
     Ground-based radio telescopes have been able to detect the 
Solar and Heliospheric Observatory (SOHO) spacecraft and have 
found it rotating slowly near its original position in space, a 
potentially important step toward possible recovery of direct 
communications with the spacecraft. 
 
     Radio contact with SOHO, a joint mission of the European 
Space Agency (ESA) and NASA, was interrupted on June 24, an event 
under review by a joint ESA/NASA investigation board. 
 
     With the encouragement of Dr. Alan Kiplinger of the National 
Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's Space Environment Center 
in Boulder, CO, researchers at the U.S. National Astronomy and 
Ionosphere Center (NAIC) in Arecibo, Puerto Rico, used the 
facility's 305-meter (990-foot) diameter radio telescope to 
transmit a signal toward SOHO on July 23. The 70-meter dish of 
NASA's Deep Space Network in Goldstone, CA, acted as a receiver, 
locating the spacecraft's echo and tracking it using radar 
techniques for more than an hour. 
 
     Preliminary analysis of the radar data, which is ongoing, 
indicates that SOHO is still in its nominal halo orbit near the 
so-called "L-1" Lagrangian point in space, (a gravitationally 
stable vantage point 1.5 million kilometers ahead of the Earth) 
and is turning slowly at a rate of roughly one revolution per 
minute.  
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
For comparison to Traveller: Arecibo is somewhat bigger than most spacecraft
active arrays :-) but it's also less powerful; since Traveller ships have
hundreds of megawatts of power to spare, the FFS2 sensor arrays trade
area for power. SOHO is small - smaller than a Trav space combat missile. 
It's not very stealthy, though. The operators knew roughly where to look - 
a "single-hex scan" in DSR terms . It's probably not a fire-control
quality detection, but it does indicate that low-TL radars can detect 
small targets at million-km ranges.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 18:31:45 -7
From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Some thoughts about Milieu 0 (Less Long)

My apologies to Greg Smith.  I had meant to reply to the list.  :-)

Stu

On 28 Jul 98, at 8:43, Greg Smith wrote:

> Comments on Politics:  Politics is fun.  There needs to be more than 
> just politics, though, I agree.  IMCTU, I'm putting together the upper 
> levels of sector government and I anticipate having some high-level 
> intrigue.  Eris' ideas will help me...even if it is only on a "local 
> power base" level.

Hmm.  There should be more than politics.  One of the things I've 
toyed with in the various adventures I wrote for M0 was the 
characters having to deal with misconceptions in their "First 
Recontacts" with worlds.  After 18 centuries of isolation, much of 
what limited knowledge about the worlds they are travelling too 
may not only be sketchy, it may be totally inaccurate. Patient Zero 
(in Milieu 0 Campaign) was a good example of this.  A disease 
crops up that is old hat for Imperial citizens, but when 'carried' to a 
new world it becomes quite deadly, because the new world isn't 
equipped to deal with it.

Other examples can be had, but just about anything that can work 
in a first contact scenario with a world (i.e. just about anything), 
can be made to work in M0.  It is one of the better things about it 
as opposed to CT or even MT.  There's a lot of there out there, and 
not only do the PC's not know much about it, but what they know 
is quite possibly dead wrong.

> How long is the Milieu 0 time period and how big is the "empire"?

As originally conceived, Milieu 0 was written from the perspective of 
somebody who might have been alive in year 20, looking back at 
the first 20 years of the Imperium.  When Joe Walsh and I wrote 
the additional material for the hardcover, we felt this was too 
restrictive.  We felt it should cover the first 200 years of the 
Imperium (or thereabouts), giving the GM the opportunity to set up 
scenarios during any point of that time period.  The additional 
material was geared towards that possibility.

Of course, your mileage may vary.  :-)

Stu
Stuart L. Dollar                sdollar@goodnet.com
- ---------------------------------------------------
Published Game Designer, Frustrated Novelist
"Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God."
- -Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 20:28:00 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: active sensor ranges

At 05:55 pm 7/28/98 -0700, you wrote:
> 
>I've never claimed that the (long, but not as long as passive)
sensor ranges
>in FFS2/DSR were terribly definitive, but here's an interesting data
point 
>for those of us who believe in long ranges:
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>(from a JPL press releast)
>     Ground-based radio telescopes have been able to detect the 

	/* space-saving snippage */

>---------------------------------------------------------------------
- --
>For comparison to Traveller: Arecibo is somewhat bigger than most
spacecraft
>active arrays :-) but it's also less powerful; since Traveller ships
have
>hundreds of megawatts of power to spare, the FFS2 sensor arrays
trade

	This is also a bistatic array, something not currently modeled in
Traveller. Note that the signal was sent from one antenna, a *305*
meter one, and received by another, Arecibo's 70m dish. You can get
more gain out of 305 meters. They also don't say how much power they
used. Any ideas?
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 19:50:38 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Some thoughts about Milieu 0 (Less Long)

In mail you write:

> toyed with in the various adventures I wrote for M0 was the 
> characters having to deal with misconceptions in their "First 
> Recontacts" with worlds.  After 18 centuries of isolation, much of 
> what limited knowledge about the worlds they are travelling too 
> may not only be sketchy, it may be totally inaccurate. Patient Zero 
> (in Milieu 0 Campaign) was a good example of this.  A disease 
> crops up that is old hat for Imperial citizens, but when 'carried' to a 
> new world it becomes quite deadly, because the new world isn't 
> equipped to deal with it.
>
> Other examples can be had, but just about anything that can work 
> in a first contact scenario with a world (i.e. just about anything), 
> can be made to work in M0.  It is one of the better things about it 
> as opposed to CT or even MT.  There's a lot of there out there, and 
> not only do the PC's not know much about it, but what they know 
> is quite possibly dead wrong.

"It ain't what you don't know that kills you. It's what you know that
 ain't so..."

One nasty that occurs to me is a planet that was a religious
dictatorship (or oligarchy, either will work). And it still is. It's
even the same religion. Only thing is, there's been a "reformation" or
a "revelation". So the actual *practices* are almost 180 degrees from
what they used to be. This could be a *fatal* mistake...

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:52:53 EDT
From: WriteFool@aol.com
Subject: Newbie Questions

Hello,

Having just joined the list I have the obvious questions that you'll probably
want to email me directly with answers to instead of wasting bandwith.  

1.  What is the status of Traveller (not counting GURPS) or more specifically,
T4 and Imperium Games.  Products seem rare and the web page is not as active
as others I have seen.

2.  What plans exist for the non-GURPS Traveller future?


And a more relevant question:

What exact year does the T4 campaign start or if there wasn't a set date what
have most people started it at?  

Thanks,
Michael Breen
writefool@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 22:27:41 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: TNE Combat

On 07/27/98 at 10:04 PM,  Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com> said:

>Eris Reddoch wrote:
>...
>> head.  It *looks* like there are two ways of handling pen, one for
>> personal weapons and one for vehicle/ship weapons, I don't think that's
>> true, but it sure looked that way to me.

>Actually, that is true.  

Well, by golly, it shouldn't be!  ;-> It would explain why it bugged me,
though.

>I remember that Dave Nilsen explained it too me.  IIRC, the personnel
>combat uses PEN as a multiplier of the armor and subtracts that from 
>the damage; while the vehicle combat PEN is compared against the 
>vehicle's armor to see if the shot got through.  I wasn't too happy
>with the way it was handled; but, I didn't have much vehicle combat
>in my campaign so I didn't worry about it too much.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 22:30:21 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: SOpM Spreadsheet... Anyone Interested?

On 07/28/98 at 09:50 AM,  Michael Kent <mkent@atlantic.net> said:

>I'm working on the finishing touches to my spreadsheet that
>implements the normal space and jumpspace procedure flowcharts from
>the back of DGP's Starship Operators Manual.  How many of you would
>be interested in getting a copy? 

Sure thing! I'm sure a lot of us are interested.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:22:46 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Some thoughts about Milieu 0 (Less Long)

On 07/28/98 at 06:31 PM,  "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com> said:

>> Comments on Politics:  Politics is fun.  There needs to be more than 
>> just politics, though, I agree.  IMCTU, I'm putting together the upper 
>> levels of sector government and I anticipate having some high-level 
>> intrigue.  Eris' ideas will help me...even if it is only on a "local 
>> power base" level.

>Hmm.  There should be more than politics.  

Don't get me wrong, Stu. I'm not knocking what you all did with _Milieu
0_.  I just don't think you could get it all into one book.

Go back and look at Chp. 5, Refferring Milieu 0, the first 6 pages were
*all* politics.  I know non-political things eventually are included,
but can you blame me for seeing a focus on the political?

>> How long is the Milieu 0 time period and how big is the "empire"?

>As originally conceived, Milieu 0 was written from the perspective of
> somebody who might have been alive in year 20, looking back at  the
>first 20 years of the Imperium.  When Joe Walsh and I wrote  the
>additional material for the hardcover, we felt this was too 
>restrictive.  We felt it should cover the first 200 years of the 
>Imperium (or thereabouts), giving the GM the opportunity to set up 
>scenarios during any point of that time period.  The additional 
>material was geared towards that possibility.

>Of course, your mileage may vary.  :-)

Of course.  ;-> BTW, you know we all don't have the hardcover, and hence
this additonal material. 

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:10:19 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Some thoughts about Milieu 0 (Less Long)

On 07/28/98 at 08:43 AM,  Greg Smith <montecristo@hotmail.com> said:

>Eris wrote a great piece on Milieu 0 and possible campaigns based on
>it [lots snipped below].  I thought it was really well thought out,
>and  gave lots of adventure hooks.  

Thank you.  I was wondering if it would disappear into the mists
unremarked by anyone.  ;->

>I've only played CT, and have not even seen the other versions (other
> than sitting on the shelf).  That said, I have no idea, apart from
>what  people have said on the TML, of what the T4 system background
>was.  I'd  hope that the type of things that Eris wrote were in
>there.  Thanks Eris  for putting it down here...

They were, and they weren't.  I don't think the exploration angle was
addressed very well.  We oldtimers all knew it was there, but it really
wasn't laid out in the published material as strongly as it should have
been, IMO.  The opponents of the late Federation and early Imperium were
mentioned, but there weren't many details.  

Heck, there is only so much that can go into 88 pages and that's what
_Milieu 0_ was after you take out the Core data.  As I mentioned in my
post I think the Milieu, any milieu, needs more than one book to cover
all its angles.

>Comments on Politics:  Politics is fun.  There needs to be more than 
>just politics, though, I agree.  IMCTU, I'm putting together the
>upper  levels of sector government and I anticipate having some
>high-level  intrigue.  Eris' ideas will help me...even if it is only
>on a "local  power base" level.

>>I suggest Milieu 0 cover the 60 years from -30 to +30, and
>>at the beginning of Milieu 0 make the Federation a compact, 
>>sub-sector sized, state...bigger than its neighbors, but not much 
>>bigger.

>How long is the Milieu 0 time period and how big is the "empire"?

Good question.  I think the original _Milieu 0_ book was looking back
from 20 and either Joe Walsh or Stu Dollar (or both) have said they
considered M0 to go out around 200.  

As for how big...well, I don't think a number of systems is mentioned,
but by 0 almost all of Core Sector is under control and there aren't
really any enemies around that *really* threaten the existence of either
the Federation or the new Imperium...the lack of a viable external
threat is a problem, but maybe I'm just misreading the material.  "By 20
the Imperium seems destined to encompass about half of Dagudahaag,
Ilelish, Massalia, Fornast and Antares as well as a wide corridor to
Vland through Lishun.", seems to indicate a pretty big area around Core
had been incorporated.  Resistance from individual systems is mentioned,
but the feel is of an almost uncontested expansion through a vacuum..pun
intended.  ;->

>>Campaign Type One -- Securing the Imperium
>>  --- Sub-Campaign:  Securing Our Rightful place in the Imperium
>>  --- Sub-Campaign:  Securing the Imperium's Rightful place in the
>>                     Galaxy
>>  --- Sub-Campaign:  A Pirate's Life
>>Campaign Style Two -- Expanding the Envelope
>>  --- Sub-Campaign:  Survey and Contact
>>  --- Sub-Campaign:  Pursuit of Knowledge
>>  --- Sub-Campaign:  The Early Bird Catches the Worm

>I like these ideas.  It allows for the full range of the Traveller 
>system to be used.  Power, Diplomacy, Bribery, danger, victory,
>windfall  profit, massive losses, tradewar, *Piracy*... and many of
>them together.   And thanks for the player ideas, too.

You're welcome, and I liked them too.  ;-> Several ideas that have been
percolating in my brain came together Saturday afternoon while I wrote
them down.

>>Book One: _Cleon's Vision: Rise to Power!_ 
>>Book Two: _Growth of the Imperium_
>>Book Three: _Pushing back the Night_

>>  Time period -30 to +30.  This is the system creation, development and
>>  exploration book we didn't get in T4.  < grump ;-> I see it as a
>>  combination of _Scouts_, _Merchant Prince_, _Mercenary_ and _World
>>  Builder's Handbook_.  Yes, that sounds like a lot, but the basic
>>  creation systems for all these kinds of characters and the basic 
>world
>>  creation system would already be in the Main Book, so I think
>>  everything else would fit into one book.  The book could present
>>  advanced trade rules, exploratory trade rules and system creation
>>  procedures.  It could detail what Scouts do and how they do it.  It
>>  could give the details of forming and campaigning on colonies.  It
>>  could explain the different types of Mercenary tickets and how to run
>>  those kinds of campaigns.  It might even be a lead in to a book on
>>  building economic and political empires (ala Pocket Empires II).
>>  

>I particularly like your ideas for book three.  I'd include a bit
>more  on establishing companies and the expansion of market share
>with the  attendent tradewars, etc.  Merchants need to catch hot
>plasma  sometimes...  ;->  

Oh, sure!  Just ask my players.  ;-> And I agree if we get into
establishing companies, then we have to get into all the aspects
(including the strange cultural tradewar rules of the Imperium ;-).

>So have we been told what setting T5 is going to be?

No, I don't think so. 

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #693
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Wednesday, July 29 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 694



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: active sensor ranges
Re: GURPS Traveller (long)
Irony (was old geezers et al)
Re: Some thoughts about Milieu 0 (Less Long)
LBB's +1
Re: Nature of the Imperium
Re: Some thoughts about Milieu 0 (Less Long)
No Subject
Re: active sensor ranges
Re: SOpM Spreadsheet... Anyone Interested?
FF&S question
Relation between Imperium and planetary governments
Re: Relation between Imperium and planetary governments
Re: mecha
Re: Nature of the Imperium
Re: mecha
[101st] Update
Re: TNE Combat
Re: Nature of the Imperium
Imperial Justice vs Local Justice (longish)
Follow-up on SopM Spreadsheet
Travallar Spreadsheet

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:42:23 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: active sensor ranges

On 07/28/98 at 08:28 PM,  "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net> said:

>	This is also a bistatic array, something not currently modeled in
>Traveller. Note that the signal was sent from one antenna, a *305*
>meter one, and received by another, Arecibo's 70m dish. You can get
>more gain out of 305 meters. They also don't say how much power they
>used. Any ideas?

Also, how many "turns" of scanning were involved?  Was this a matter of
"zap!  There it is.", or was it a ",,,and the the fourth day we resolved
it well enough to say it is spinning." kind of thing?

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:39:26 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller (long)

On 07/28/98 at 10:36 AM,  Loren Wiseman <lkw@io.com> said:

>Someone asked if Behind the Claw will include Traveller-style UPPS:

That would be me.

>the answer is no, UPPS are not part of the way GURPS does things. 

I'm not the fan of the UWP's that some old timers are (I always have to
look up the order ;-), but they are a very compact way of expressing
some of the important details about a world.  The only GURPS way I'm
familiar with is the Planetary Record, _GURPS Space_, p 116, but I doubt
that's what you have in mind. ;->

>It is possible for us to translate the stats into UPP form and put that
>on the web, and I'll see if this can't be done by the time the book
>comes out (I don't think much has changed between 1110 and
>1120).

I hope you do.  Sure, we Traveller geezers can use our old material, but
newcomers won't have that.  We do we want newcomers coming to Traveller
through GT to be able to carry on conversations with the already
initiated and to be able to share user written stuff between us, don't
we?  I'm afraid, for better or worse, UWP's are part of the Traveller
language.


Eris,
    you could almost take me for a c***nist couldn't you? ;->
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:54:30 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Irony (was old geezers et al)

All this talk of old geezers and the early days of RPG's lead me to dig out 
some of my old gaming mag. I found this in Different Worlds 15 (October 1981, 
pag 28) in an article about the future of RPG's by Ken St Andre:

   "I got to thinking what could stop the growth of role-playing and came up with 
only one serius possibility - the end of civilisation as we know it."

So that explains collectable card games :*>

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 21:57:55 -0700
From: "Suz Dollar" <suzd@goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Some thoughts about Milieu 0 (Less Long)

> >I particularly like your ideas for book three.  I'd include a bit
> >more  on establishing companies and the expansion of market share
> >with the  attendent tradewars, etc.  Merchants need to catch hot
> >plasma  sometimes...  ;->  
> 
> Oh, sure!  Just ask my players.  ;-> And I agree if we get into
> establishing companies, then we have to get into all the aspects
> (including the strange cultural tradewar rules of the Imperium ;-).

Mira looks up from tending Ricardo's burned hand, "Somehow, I think he 
was talking metaphorically, Eris."

;>

Sorry, couldn't resist... Not everyday a character gets a chance to talk to 
ghod... ;>

Suz

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 22:03:55 -0700
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: LBB's +1

Hello,

     Just got word that the 3 LBB's and Alien Module 1 (Aslan) have
become available for anyone who does not have them and would like same.
I haven't seen the books but you can get a description and price at the
following e-mail:

gnu@gnu.bc.ca    -   attention: Shannon (owner of GNU World Games)

The items are available in Victoria, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 22:49:33 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Nature of the Imperium

Tue, 28 Jul 1998 19:01:11 -0400, Matthew Harelick <matth@CYBERNEX.NET>
>I have heard many terms such as Imperial Citizen, worlds aligned with the
>Imperium, etc.

>I have heard other contradicting things like:
>
>The Imperium is simply a powerful trade organization.

Well, trade was a motivation, accoring the Melieu 0, for its
formation, but it is definately more than a trade organition.

>According to Dulinor "The Imperium only rules the space between the worlds"

Not just Dulinor.  But that is more of a slogan.  It refers to the
fact that the Imperium allows most worlds to have autonomy over
local affairs.

>World governments are sovereign, they rule themselves. Although they can
>be influenced by outside forces.

Subject to Imperial rules

>So, when the Imperial Navy / Marines go into action, what do they defend?

They defend the Imperium against outside forces, suppress rebellion
against the Imperium (worlds that don't pay taxes and follow Imperial
rules).

>What is the Imperium, what is the value of Imperial Citizenry, what does
>the Imperium consider itself sovereign over?

It really is sovereign over everything.  However, doesn't involve
itself with local maters.  (Much like the Roman Empire and subject
kingdoms).

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 00:59:56 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Some thoughts about Milieu 0 (Less Long)

On 07/28/98 at 09:57 PM,  Suz Dollar <suzd@goodnet.com> said:

>> >with the  attendent tradewars, etc.  Merchants need to catch hot
>> >plasma  sometimes...  ;->  
 
>> Oh, sure!  Just ask my players.  ;-> And I agree if we get into
>> establishing companies, then we have to get into all the aspects
>> (including the strange cultural tradewar rules of the Imperium ;-).

>Mira looks up from tending Ricardo's burned hand, "Somehow, I think
>he  was talking metaphorically, Eris."

Ah, but *that* was only steam! Just wait until the plasma hits the fan. ;->

>Sorry, couldn't resist... Not everyday a character gets a chance to
>talk to  ghod... ;>

To make this more intelligible to everyone:  

Suz plays Dr Mira Hasta-Rur, an ex-Scout MD, in my AKUS MOBY game.
Ricardo O'Brien, played by the heroic Bruce Johnson, has just saved the
ship from disaster by manually shutting down Reactor One after a pipe in
the secondary cooling system blew.  In the process he got several burns
including a *badly* burned hand.  Now, after 18 hours in "regen" Ricardo
is running around trying to use his still healing hand and Dr Mira is
threatening to "tight him to a pole" to keep him from using it.  She's
already told him he can't have any beersi while on the pain meds, and
he's not taking it very well.  ;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 02:07:35 EDT
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: No Subject

Douglas Berry <dberry@hooked.net>  sigs:

>"Come to Life, Iron Chef!"

 Ah. Someone else who watches the "Saturday Night Food Fights."

 Have you tried to translate the Iron Chefs into Traveller yet?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:28:29 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: active sensor ranges

There are rules for bistatic sensors in my head. (Readers' digest: average
the two FFS2 sensitivies of the sensors involved.) 

I believe Arecebo transmits tens of kilowatts - maybe hundreds - in radar
mode; small potatoes for Traveller sensors.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 22:40:09 -0700
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: SOpM Spreadsheet... Anyone Interested?

Eris Reddoch wrote:
> 
> On 07/28/98 at 09:50 AM,  Michael Kent <mkent@atlantic.net> said:
> 
> >I'm working on the finishing touches to my spreadsheet that
> >implements the normal space and jumpspace procedure flowcharts from
> >the back of DGP's Starship Operators Manual.  How many of you would
> >be interested in getting a copy?
> 
> Sure thing! I'm sure a lot of us are interested.

As Eris says, if you put it up, I know others like me will definetly be
interested.

Jim C

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:31:18 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: FF&S question

I have a question regarding collapsable fuel bladders in the FF&S 2 rules.

In the rules it states that they take up 10% of their volume when collapsed. In 
every previous Traveller design system I'm aware of it was only 1%. Was this 
change deliberate (presumably to give a higher penalty to the tanks) or is it just 
an error?

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 08:16:03 -0400
From: Matthew Harelick <matth@cybernex.net>
Subject: Relation between Imperium and planetary governments

Hi:

Thanx for the explanation of the nature of the Imperium. This of
course leads to more questions:

1) What would prompt the Imperium to forceably induct a  world into
      the Imperium?

2)  If a worlds is balkanized, would the Imperium forceably end the
       political situation?

Mattthew

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:56:56 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Relation between Imperium and planetary governments

Date sent:      	Wed, 29 Jul 1998 08:16:03 -0400
From:           	Matthew Harelick <matth@cybernex.net>

> Hi:

> Thanx for the explanation of the nature of the Imperium. This of
> course leads to more questions:

> 1) What would prompt the Imperium to forceably induct a  world into
>       the Imperium?

There are a three basic situations.
  1 - being in the wrong place. Either a strategic location or just all the worlds
      around have joined. After around 50 the Imperium had a policy of "forced"
      incorporation of worlds within its borders who weren't already members.
      Usually this was not a military invasion, more strong arm economic
      pressure and political manipulation; but the Imperium was not averse to
      sending in the marines when it felt the need.
  2 - Support of piracy (not wanting to relight the fires). Give succour to pirates
      and if the Imperium finds out you're in like it or not! (with a new government)
  3 - You've got something they want badly enough. Very similar to situation 1.

> 2)  If a worlds is balkanized, would the Imperium forceably end the
>        political situation?

No not normally. Don't tamper with the local situation. You are more likely to 
get worlds to join if you have a hands off policy with regards to local autonomy.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:00:11 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: mecha

>> >Call in
>> >> the 15 meter
>> >> tall mechanical Lizardiod.
>> >In other words call out Mecha to fight Mecha?
>>      But my mecha's a Lizardiod.  It goes to 11.
>
>My Mecha is a VF-2SS SAP Special.  It goes to 12.
                      ^^^

Aaaargh, I didn't know this company was into Military Hardwareas well as
nasty enterprise financial software.  No Wonder MIT doesn't drop them like
a hot potato, they have a "MAD" clause.

Pete

P.S. I hope this joke wasn't too obscure.


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:15:11 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Nature of the Imperium

David Summers Said;
>Tue, 28 Jul 1998 19:01:11 -0400, Matthew Harelick <matth@CYBERNEX.NET>
[snippage]
>>World governments are sovereign, they rule themselves. Although they can
>>be influenced by outside forces.
>
>Subject to Imperial rules
>
[snippage]
>It really is sovereign over everything.  However, doesn't involve
>itself with local maters.  (Much like the Roman Empire and subject
>kingdoms).

Balkanized worlds are treated as seperate nations, but there may be
diplomats and negotiators (Scout Service?) who mediate between such nations
and attempt to bring the parties to a certain course of action.  They would
not use force to bring about the desried changes, but they may withhold
certain types of aid or offer certain bonuses.

IMTU and in my opinion in the "Canon" Traveller Universe the Imperium
cannot be so "hands off" that local governments can act how they please
with impunity.  Certainly, the unwritten Imperial "Rules of War" Are an
example of the extreme limits of local behavior.  If a local government on
a balkanized world used Nukes, for example, on a neighbor, that government
would probably be declared "unlawful" in the eyes of the Imperium, and I
would think that large troopships would begin to appear overhead, which
would go away once the situation was stabilized.

A sticky point I always have, though, is the limits of individual behavior.
If I kill a person (not that any of our heroic PCs would ever do such a
thing - except in self defense) and the local gov't thinks I should be
prosecuted (or has already held the trial and sentanced me to death) can
they appeal to the Imperial government to have me extradited back to the
planet in question?  If not, then killers can roam from place to place,
leaving a trail of bodies.  If so, the not-so-fair governments can
extradite people they don't like on trumped up charges.  There must be a
middle ground somewhere there...any ideas?

Pete


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 06:14:24 PDT
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: mecha

>From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
>>> >Call in
>>> >> the 15 meter
>>> >> tall mechanical Lizardiod.
>>> >In other words call out Mecha to fight Mecha?
>>>      But my mecha's a Lizardiod.  It goes to 11.
>>
>>My Mecha is a VF-2SS SAP Special.  It goes to 12.
>                      ^^^
>
>Aaaargh, I didn't know this company was into Military Hardwareas well 
>as nasty enterprise financial software.  No Wonder MIT doesn't drop 
>them like a hot potato, they have a "MAD" clause.
>
>Pete
>
>P.S. I hope this joke wasn't too obscure.
>

And they just split, 4:1, so does that mean is really only goes to 3?

The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:23:01 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: [101st] Update

Dear all,

We really need to finish the draft of 101st in the next three weeks to
ensure it is published at GenCon.

I'm off the next day or so so will try to put some more info together.

We need vehicle and weapon designs for the TL14 unit.

With regards to Doug's comments on Rob's work. Why doesn't Rob put his
essay together, then Doug can comment / add extras as he feels fit. This
way we get a unit which is neither one or the other.

Doug,

do you see ACQ being ready in the next three weeks?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:21:40 -0400
From: "chauncey smith" <Csmith@icdc.com>
Subject: Re: TNE Combat

- -----Original Message-----
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Wednesday, July 29, 1998 12:51 AM
Subject: Re: TNE Combat


>On 07/27/98 at 10:04 PM,  Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
said:
>
>>Eris Reddoch wrote:
>>...
>>> head.  It *looks* like there are two ways of handling pen, one for
>>> personal weapons and one for vehicle/ship weapons, I don't think that's
>>> true, but it sure looked that way to me.
>
>>Actually, that is true.
>
>Well, by golly, it shouldn't be!  ;-> It would explain why it bugged me,
>though.
>
>>I remember that Dave Nilsen explained it too me.  IIRC, the personnel
>>combat uses PEN as a multiplier of the armor and subtracts that from
>>the damage; while the vehicle combat PEN is compared against the
>>vehicle's armor to see if the shot got through.  I wasn't too happy
>>with the way it was handled; but, I didn't have much vehicle combat
>>in my campaign so I didn't worry about it too much.
>
>Eris
OK there is 2 kinds of PEN.... in TNE... REALLY ....
One is the rateing this is for small arms  and is the number of dice
subtracted from the DMG of the weapon. As most hand held man portable
weapons don't penatrate that much this is the only one you have to worry
about until you get to vechicle combat.

The INVERSE of this 1/PEN is used then to determine penatration... multiply
this number by the aromr of the vechile and subtract that much DMG number
that is a part of it... as it is writen in TNE product as 1/pen:DMG - 1/PEN:
DMG - 1/PEN : DMG
per the range bands...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 06:57:33 PDT
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Nature of the Imperium

>From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
>Subject: Re: Nature of the Imperium
>David Summers Said;
>>Tue, 28 Jul 1998 19:01:11 -0400, Matthew Harelick <matth@CYBERNEX.NET>
>Balkanized worlds are treated as seperate nations, but there may be
>diplomats and negotiators (Scout Service?) who mediate between such 
nations
>and attempt to bring the parties to a certain course of action.  They 
would
>not use force to bring about the desried changes, but they may withhold
>certain types of aid or offer certain bonuses.
>

It would seem to me that if one nation would begin to make trade 
agreements with the Imperium, the others would follow suit.  All the 
nations (superpowers anyway) would then be "in" the imperium, and I 
would think that the next step would be for the establishment of 
something like our current UN, if it doesn't already exist.  And the 
Imperium WOULD NOT have a seat on the security council.  This would 
provide a world voice, but allow the balkanization to continue until 
such time as the world society as a whole developed a world government 
(and this may never happen, IMO).

For instance, the US in the Balkans.  When moving troops, supplies, and 
stuff in there, one of the concerns was that each faction needed to 
receive some benefit from the agreement with the US/UN.  So, money 
flowed into all the coffers in the form or payment for goods and 
services received to include shipping of stuff, trains, road repairs, 
etc.  All to keep the sides happy and to make them come together.  
OBTrav, other factions would be afraid to be left behind by the 
developments of favorable trade agreements (weapons?) between the 
Imperium and their enemies...  Would tend to bring the sides together in 
a big way, I would think.

I have no thoughts yet on the extradition points....

The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 10:08:10 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Imperial Justice vs Local Justice (longish)

What happens when a person is murdered, and the murderer flees
off-planet? Can the planetary gov't appeal to the Imperium for extradition?
But can a repressive gov't create trumped-up charges and extradite
innocent people into their gov't's evil clutches?

IMTU the "middle ground" to this is Imperial Law vs Local Law.

The Imperium has created a list of offences, some of which are
considered Les Majeste (against the crown) and some of which
are considered common-law crimes. 

Les Majeste crimes are prosecutable by agents of the Imperium,
on any world of the Imperium, whether the local government
is investigating or not. These would include crimes such as Sedition,
Treason, Espionage, Murder of an Agent of the Imperium, etc.,
crimes that are specifically directed against the Imperium or
that deliberately fly in the face of Imperial Authority. If there are
specific moralities or agendas the Imperium feels are central to it's
mission, crimes in these areas may be included as Les Majeste
crimes as well - Slavery, Hijacking and Piracy come to mind.

Nobles may also have rights to Imperial Justice - they may insist
that charges against them be applied in an Imperial court, as inflicting
local laws and punishments on them may be construed as an
affront to the Crown, which "owns" these nobles. Nobles might also,
in some grey area cases, push a government to suspend local
laws from being applied to them (such as blasphemy laws from
a religious dictatorship), but this will depend on how influential the
noble is and other matters of circumstance. Certain Imperial Agents
may also claim this kind of protection, but as most of them are
nobles anyway(ambassadors, inspectors, etc.) it would be rare for
this to be a problem.

Common-Law Crimes that fall under the jurisdiction of the Empire are
a much greyer area. These are crimes that are usually illegal on every
planet of the Imperium, but may not be, or the perpetrator of the crime
may be beyond the jurisdiction of a planet where the offense was
committed. If the crime extends to other planets (which may have
conflicting legal systems), the Empire may also become involved.
The idea of the Common-Law Crimes is, in some ways, like the
Imperial Rules of War - designed to be ambiguous enough so the
MoJ can get involved whenever them deem it necessary.

Example One: Gile Theron runs a passenger line from his offices
on a Law Level Zero planet. He prints off several thousand fake
middle passage vouchers for his competitor's passenger line and
distributes them sector-wide in an attempt to give his competitor
a PR black eye. Gile never leaves his law level zero enclave, but
some of his distributors have turned crown's evidence. As the crime
extended across multiple planets, Imperial MoJ agents can arrest
Mr. Theron.

Example Two: Maria DeSandri is accused of Blasphemy on a planet
with a strict religous dictatorship. She has managed to escape the
planet, and is hiding at a nearby mining colony. Her crime was entirely
local, and not covered under Imperial Common-Law Justice, so
the Imperial MoJ will not act on any request from the religious
dictatorship to punish her. If Maria is smart, she will hide in a system
that holds kidnapping as illegal and has no strong political links with
the religious dictatorship, otherwise some fanatics may show up at
her door some night and make her disappear (which may happpen
anyway).

Example Three: Jor Thanagar is accused of murder by the same
religious dictatorship. He flees off-world, claiming the charges are
completely fabricated so the R.D. can get him for a Blasphemy
charge. Murder _is_ a crime covered by the Imperial Common Law,
but since Jor managed to flee into Imperial Space his crime must
be tried in an Imperial court. Again, Jor may wish to flee to a safe
system - the R.D. might decide they can't win in an Imperial court,
and try to spirit him away instead. Also note that the R.D. can
try and convict him in absentia, leading to adventurers being able to
brag about "having the death sentence in seventeen systems". <g>

Example Four: A Crimelord has esconced himself on a law level zero
planet. He murders a member of a visiting starship crew. What he
did is not illegal on the world the act was performed on, but does
fall under Imperial Common-Law Crimes. If the other members of
the starship crew can get the nearest MoJ office to take notice,
they may be able to get the Crimelord arrested. They may also
decide this is too iffy and would take too long, and decide to
beam laser the guy's villa into slag instead. (This is the rarest
situation for Imperial involvement. It is based on a legal opinion
that in situations where no local law is present, the Imperium can
treat the situation the same as it treats interstellar space. There
would have to be no local government in a position to object,
and an interest from the local MoJ for such an intervention
to take place.)

Imperial Common-Law also covers day-to-day activities between
planets - crimes committed while travelling on starships, or committed
against starships, crimes committed on Imperial territory (such as
Starport Extra-Territoriality Zones).

Note that planets with high Law Levels and esoteric crimes will
closely secure their starports - if you've just been sentenced to
death for accidentally tearing a photograph of Our Beloved Leader,
getting to the starport places your out of the local police jurisdiction.

Note that this system may encourage Bounty Hunting. Many planets
may wish to "extradite" (i.e., kidnap) criminals who have escaped
jurisdiction of local law. On some planets it may be legal to take
someone if you are a Bounty Hunter, but once you are in Imperial
Space (travelling from one planet to another, for example)
the Bounty Hunter could be charged with kidnapping as a
Common-Law Crime. Thus Bounty Hunters will be secretive and
illegal, even though the local MoJ may turn a blind eye to their
activities as long as they toe the line on some unwritten code.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 10:13:38 -0400
From: Michael Kent <mkent@atlantic.net>
Subject: Follow-up on SopM Spreadsheet

I have had an excellent response to my query, so I will be offering my
Starship Operators Manual shreadsheet. :o)  I'll need about another week
to finish up the final tweeks, then I'll let you guys and gals bash on
it.  When it's ready, I'll take up some of the offers to host it on
various web sites, then I'll announce to the list where it can be found.

BTW, this is a Quatro Pro 8 spreadsheet - for those Ecellites out there,
I'll see what I can do about making an Excel version available RSN.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:38:40 -0500
From: Talisman <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Travallar Spreadsheet

Any Lotus 123 spread sheets out there?


My god, it's full of stars!


Http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/4467

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #694
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Wednesday, July 29 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 695



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Relation between Imperium and planetary governments
Re: Nature of the Imperium
Re: Nature of the Imperium
Re: active sensor ranges
Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**
Re: Leisure Games , UK
re: LOM
Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**
Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**
Re: Some thoughts about Milieu 0 (Less Long)
re: Newbie Questions
Re: Imperial Justice vs Local Justice (longish)
Re: Relation between Imperium and planetary governments
Re: Some thoughts about Milieu 0 (Less Long)
Re: No Subject
Re: Relation between Imperium and planetary governments
Re: Relation between Imperium and planetary governments
re: LOM
Re: Relation between Imperium and planetary governments 
Re: Relation between Imperium and planetary governments
Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**
re: Newbie Questions

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:00:56 EDT
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Relation between Imperium and planetary governments

In a message dated 98-07-29 08:16:39 EDT, you write:

<< 
 1) What would prompt the Imperium to forceably induct a  world into
       the Imperium?

Current policy. Special circumstances. Personality clashes. During Milieu 0,
the expansionist policy of the 3rd Imperium dictated that new worlds be
inducted. Forcible induction was a last resort, since it cost more, but
arguements about how it (induction) would benefit the locals were usually what
they tried first. 

 2)  If a worlds is balkanized, would the Imperium forceably end the political
situation?

No. 
 
Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:37:27 -0400
From: "chauncey smith" <Csmith@icdc.com>
Subject: Re: Nature of the Imperium

- -----Original Message-----
From: Peter H. Brenton <pbrenton@mit.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Wednesday, July 29, 1998 9:30 AM
Subject: Re: Nature of the Imperium



>IMTU and in my opinion in the "Canon" Traveller Universe the Imperium
>cannot be so "hands off" that local governments can act how they please
>with impunity.  Certainly, the unwritten Imperial "Rules of War" Are an
>example of the extreme limits of local behavior.  If a local government on
>a balkanized world used Nukes, for example, on a neighbor, that government
>would probably be declared "unlawful" in the eyes of the Imperium, and I
>would think that large troopships would begin to appear overhead, which
>would go away once the situation was stabilized.
>
>A sticky point I always have, though, is the limits of individual behavior.
>If I kill a person (not that any of our heroic PCs would ever do such a
>thing - except in self defense) and the local gov't thinks I should be
>prosecuted (or has already held the trial and sentanced me to death) can
>they appeal to the Imperial government to have me extradited back to the
>planet in question?  If not, then killers can roam from place to place,
>leaving a trail of bodies.  If so, the not-so-fair governments can
>extradite people they don't like on trumped up charges.  There must be a
>middle ground somewhere there...any ideas

IMTU: Mudrer is a Imperial crime and I treat it like fedual crimes are in
the USA. MOJ officers come after u. with hi-tech equipement to solve the
crime. I treat the MOJ like a conbination between the FBI and US marshals
they have seperate branchs under them. and they deal with Imperial crimes
like treason or too many weapons and the like.




Chauncey Smith AKA drkmage

With out heresay there may never be any change,
With out change there there death....... Dulinor

ITMU: tc tm+ tn++ ?tg tt !to ru ge+ 3i c++ jt- au+ st++ ls pi- ta++ he++
     kk hi+ as va ?dr ith+ ?vr ?ne so zh++ vi+ dr++ sy-

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 07:45:00 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Nature of the Imperium

> From: Peter H. Brenton <pbrenton@mit.edu>
> Balkanized worlds are treated as seperate nations, but there may be
> diplomats and negotiators (Scout Service?) who mediate between such
nations
> and attempt to bring the parties to a certain course of action.  They
would
> not use force to bring about the desried changes, but they may withhold
> certain types of aid or offer certain bonuses.

IMTU, which is nothing like anyone elses I hope...

Balkanized worlds are not even in the 3I as full members.  They may be
assoicate members, but until there is one government, they are not full
member worlds.

> IMTU and in my opinion in the "Canon" Traveller Universe the Imperium
> cannot be so "hands off" that local governments can act how they please
> with impunity.  Certainly, the unwritten Imperial "Rules of War" Are an
> example of the extreme limits of local behavior.  If a local government
on
> a balkanized world used Nukes, for example, on a neighbor, that
government
> would probably be declared "unlawful" in the eyes of the Imperium, and I
> would think that large troopships would begin to appear overhead, which
> would go away once the situation was stabilized.

IMTU, if a nation within a BW used nukes on a neighbor, forget about a few
troopships.  The 3I would invade the planet, kick out all the governments &
set it up as a fully Imperial World.  Meaning that it is under the direct
control of the 3I.

> A sticky point I always have, though, is the limits of individual
behavior.
> If I kill a person (not that any of our heroic PCs would ever do such a
> thing - except in self defense) and the local gov't thinks I should be
> prosecuted (or has already held the trial and sentanced me to death) can
> they appeal to the Imperial government to have me extradited back to the
> planet in question?  If not, then killers can roam from place to place,
> leaving a trail of bodies.  If so, the not-so-fair governments can
> extradite people they don't like on trumped up charges.  There must be a
> middle ground somewhere there...any ideas?

Yes, treat the 3I as the US.  Murder is a local law, not a fed law, but a
state can extradite a person only after a hearing before a fed judge. 
Works for me.

> Pete

Legate Legion, Militant Jewish Terrorist
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"The system does not matter, its ROLE-Playing that matters." - Me to
Acid_Blue, Chuckles, & Rob the Lumberjackman.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:24:28 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: active sensor ranges

Do you know if anyone has tried the same technique to attempt to locate the
missing Mars mission (the name of which escapes me) that disappeared a few
years back?

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:56:44 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**

Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu> wrote:

>It would be easier on us, in the US and Canada, if BITS could find a
>distributor over here.  Seeing as these books are in something of a
>niche, I can see were the big distrubutors (that are left) might not be
>interested, but it doesn't *have* to be a major distributor, BITS might
>be able to directly distribute to an on-line games vendor, even some
>enterprising netizen could buy a few copies of each book and sell via
>the net.

BITS is *trying* to sort out distribution in the US and Canada, but we have
two problems - (1) we get no replies back from distributers and (2) we are
all working full time so it gets awkward mounting a sustained attempt to
get a reply.

>Has BITS checked with Crazy Egor's, Discount Games, Dragon's Trove, or
>Titan Games to see if they would be interested in stocking a few copies?

Do you want to send me URLs/email/snail mail details...? I can pass them to
Andy.

>Has BITS dropped a note to Hyperbooks?  Terry would handle the on-line
>purchase and after BITS received a confirmation they would ship out the
>product.  Because we're talking about shipping from England costs would
>be higher, but probably not much more.

That may be an idea - we initially rejected Hyperbooks as we don't want to
distribute the material as on-line docs (yet).

>Has BITS approached, or been approached by, anybody in TML about this?
>I bet there is someone here who would be willing to act as USA
>distributor for BITS products.

To my knowledge *no-one* has approached us.

>Heck, even if there's nobody here you'd trust to be your distributor why
>wouldn't you sell a few copies of each book at wholesale to someone over
>here and let them sell them?  Paul Sanders was able to sell out his 120
>copies of Letter of Marque (and could probably seel out another print
>run if he wanted to) at ~$18 each. I rather suspect BITS products would
>sell, at least, as well...don't you?

We know we have a big market in the US, and if anyone wants to email me
with contacts etc were we can get distribution sorted out, I will make sure
Andy gets them.

Dom (Still waiting for the 4 copies of LoM he ordered).

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:05:50 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Leisure Games , UK

Tim Crowfoot <tcrowfoot@dial.pipex.com> wrote:

>I'm struggling to recall the name of the bloke I  normally deal with there
>but I've always found them to be most
>helpful.

Angus or Mike are the one's I usually deal with.

>Definetly gets my vote for London's best FLGS.

One of the best mail order companies I've dealt with.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:14:13 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: LOM

DustyLV769@aol.com wrote:

>Has everybody else gotten thier copy already?  I still haven't recieved mine
>in the mail...it would be just my luck to have Uncle Sam lose it.  If anyone
>else hasn't yet gotten thiers I'll feel better...I'm starting to worry.

Anyone in the UK got their copies yet?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:28:08 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**

 Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk wrote:

>>I thought I was.  Aren't there any BITS folks on the TML?  If there
>>aren't, why the heck not!  ;->
>
>
>Yes, there's lots (at least a few occasionally post something) of BITS folk
>on TML but we're just members of BITS.  It would be up to Andy Lilly to
>arrange something like this....

The TML has several BITS members. A few of us have been involved in
writing, running or otherwise working for BITS. Andy and Sarah Lilly run
BITS, and have final responsibility.

>I have a suspicion he is away on holiday at present, but no doubt he will
>respond (en masse if the past is anything to go by) to these suggestions
>when he can.

Andy has had an increase in real life (tm) workload, a bereavement in the
family and also a short holiday. If you need to contact him urgently and he
doesn't respond, please let me know. Several of us are working as lurkers
and editing out relevant TML sections for him to respond to or keep in the
know...

As it stands we have a heavy work load the next two months - GenCon Uk
approaches and we need to build up stock of the new books already released
(101 Governments), prepare others (hopefully 101st Spaceborne and 101
Religions, possibly 101 Gadgets or Cultures), write some tournament
scenarios (1 out of three written, two in progress), continue working on
software material (supporting Rob Prior's work), .... as a result, you may
not see many responses in depth.

>Believe me, I'm certain that Andy has a good idea that there is 'much
>interest' in the US over buying the BITS products.  I'm sure he's as keen
>as anyone to get you guys to buy these books.  If he does forget, I'll keep
>reminding him!  I'd have loved for you all to have a chance to buy my
>bibliography!  (And not for the money - what money? - but because I think
>it's genuinely useful.)

He is interested. We had a discussion about the US market at GamesFest 98
and have had a few more leads.


Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:33:54 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**

Douglas Berry wrote:

>Could somebody convert Leisure Games' business hours to Pacific Daylight
>time?  I get out of bed at 0250 for work anyway, so calling them in the
>middle of the night is no problem...

According to your header you are at -7hrs off GMT. The UK is currecntly at
+1hrs. Hence we are 8 hours ahead of you. So 0250 hrs is 1050 hrs UK.....

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:36:40 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Some thoughts about Milieu 0 (Less Long)

 "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com> wrote:

>My apologies to Greg Smith.  I had meant to reply to the list.  :-)
>
>Stu
>
>On 28 Jul 98, at 8:43, Greg Smith wrote:
>
>> Comments on Politics:  Politics is fun.  There needs to be more than
>> just politics, though, I agree.  IMCTU, I'm putting together the upper
>> levels of sector government and I anticipate having some high-level
>> intrigue.  Eris' ideas will help me...even if it is only on a "local
>> power base" level.
>
>Hmm.  There should be more than politics.  One of the things I've
>toyed with in the various adventures I wrote for M0 was the
>characters having to deal with misconceptions in their "First
>Recontacts" with worlds.  After 18 centuries of isolation, much of
>what limited knowledge about the worlds they are travelling too
>may not only be sketchy, it may be totally inaccurate. Patient Zero
>(in Milieu 0 Campaign) was a good example of this.  A disease
>crops up that is old hat for Imperial citizens, but when 'carried' to a
>new world it becomes quite deadly, because the new world isn't
>equipped to deal with it.
>
>Other examples can be had, but just about anything that can work
>in a first contact scenario with a world (i.e. just about anything),
>can be made to work in M0.  It is one of the better things about it
>as opposed to CT or even MT.  There's a lot of there out there, and
>not only do the PC's not know much about it, but what they know
>is quite possibly dead wrong.
>
>> How long is the Milieu 0 time period and how big is the "empire"?
>
>As originally conceived, Milieu 0 was written from the perspective of
>somebody who might have been alive in year 20, looking back at
>the first 20 years of the Imperium.  When Joe Walsh and I wrote
>the additional material for the hardcover, we felt this was too
>restrictive.  We felt it should cover the first 200 years of the
>Imperium (or thereabouts), giving the GM the opportunity to set up
>scenarios during any point of that time period.  The additional
>material was geared towards that possibility.
>
>Of course, your mileage may vary.  :-)
>
>Stu
>Stuart L. Dollar                sdollar@goodnet.com
>- ---------------------------------------------------
>Published Game Designer, Frustrated Novelist
>"Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God."
>- -Thomas Jefferson

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:42:35 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Newbie Questions

Michael Breen wrote:

>1.  What is the status of Traveller (not counting GURPS) or more specifically,
>T4 and Imperium Games.  Products seem rare and the web page is not as active
>as others I have seen.

Imperium Games no longer have a licence for Traveller, and have been
prevented from shipsing any existing stock due to a dispute with FarFuture
Enterprises.

BITS/CORE has a licence to produce material and is continuing with the more
generic 101 series (designed for T4, but usable with CT and MT)

>2.  What plans exist for the non-GURPS Traveller future?

Marc Miller is negotiating with a new publisher...

>And a more relevant question:
>
>What exact year does the T4 campaign start or if there wasn't a set date what
>have most people started it at?

The T4.1 (ie revised and expanded T4) playtest draft set the date as 97
Imperial. This was seen in later books by IG eg Missions of State. The date
would currently be 98....

Milieu 0 runs from 0 to 200. Buy the hardback campaign version if you get a
copy as the extra material includes a timeline...

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 08:50:27 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Imperial Justice vs Local Justice (longish)

At 10:08 AM 7/29/98 -0400, you wrote:
>What happens when a person is murdered, and the murderer flees
>off-planet? Can the planetary gov't appeal to the Imperium for extradition?
>But can a repressive gov't create trumped-up charges and extradite
>innocent people into their gov't's evil clutches?

IMTU, if the person is identified while in still in the base system, but
off the planet (aboard a starship heading out or whatever) the Imperium is
empowered to return that person to the planet to stand trial.

If the fugative makes it to another planet, the accusing world has to ask
for extradition.  This is pretty easy in cases covering "universal" crimes
like murder, but can get sticky when the offence is not considered a
criminal act by Planet B.
- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
jt- au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 08:58:30 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Relation between Imperium and planetary governments

At 08:16 AM 7/29/98 -0400, you wrote:

>2)  If a worlds is balkanized, would the Imperium forceably end the
>       political situation?

It would be much easier to simply accept a few of the governments as
members.  Then watch as the other nation's populations grow envious of the
economic boom the Imperial states experience.

Picture what would happen if the aliens made a treaty with Ecuador, and
traded only with them...
- --

Douglas Berry
dberry@hooked.net
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry
"Come to Life, Iron Chef!"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:02:18 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Some thoughts about Milieu 0 (Less Long)

At 12:59 AM 7/29/98 -0500, Eris wrote:

>Ricardo O'Brien, played by the heroic Bruce Johnson,

I see.. any chance of this ship falling into a Time Warp?
- --

Douglas Berry
dberry@hooked.net
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry
"Come to Life, Iron Chef!"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 08:55:33 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: No Subject

At 02:07 AM 7/29/98 EDT, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry <dberry@hooked.net>  sigs:
>
>>"Come to Life, Iron Chef!"
>
> Ah. Someone else who watches the "Saturday Night Food Fights."
>
> Have you tried to translate the Iron Chefs into Traveller yet?

No, but I've wriiten them up for my less-than-serious Champions game...

- --

Douglas Berry
dberry@hooked.net
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry
"Come to Life, Iron Chef!"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:17:48 PDT
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Relation between Imperium and planetary governments

Douglas Berry wrote:
>
>Picture what would happen if the aliens made a treaty with Ecuador, 
>and traded only with them...
>--

Great.  A new drug connection!

The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:26:26 PDT
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Relation between Imperium and planetary governments

Does anyone know the name of the short story where the earth was finally 
invited to join the interstellar community because a businessman was 
intrigued by the apparent fact that mail going very long distances 
always seemed to get there quicker than mail just going across town?  I 
read it long ago...

The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 17:33:30 +0100 (BST)
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: re: LOM

>Anyone in the UK got their copies yet?
>
>Dom

Not yet ...

	Ewan Quibell
	Data Communications Technician        The Game's afoot:
	Computer Centre                       Follow your spirit, and apon
	University of Brighton                  this charge
                                              Cry 'God for Harry, England,
	E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              and Saint George !'

                                                    Henry V 3:1
	#include<stddisclamer.h>                    W. Shakespeare

	My spelling is entierly due to dyslexia, typoes and poetic license

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:48:11 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Relation between Imperium and planetary governments 

> Does anyone know the name of the short story where the earth was finally 
> invited to join the interstellar community because a businessman was 
> intrigued by the apparent fact that mail going very long distances 
> always seemed to get there quicker than mail just going across town?  I 
> read it long ago...

I *remember* it, but I can't remember what it was *called*.

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 10:11:08 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Relation between Imperium and planetary governments

> From: Greg Smith <montecristo@hotmail.com>
> >Picture what would happen if the aliens made a treaty with Ecuador, 
> >and traded only with them...
> Great.  A new drug connection!

Maybe that is where all the drugs are comming from?

Viliani Drug Dealers?  Wonder if they got a copy of Traveller & found out
that we would kick their asses?

> The Count,
> MonteCristo@hotmail.com

Legate Legion, Militant Jewish Terrorist
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"The system does not matter, its ROLE-Playing that matters." - Me to
Acid_Blue, Chuckles, & Rob the Lumberjackman.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:50:40 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**

Dom Mooney Wrote;
>Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu> wrote:
>
>>It would be easier on us, in the US and Canada, if BITS could find a
>>distributor over here.
[big snip]
>To my knowledge *no-one* has approached us.

I volunteered to Andy several months ago to distribute the 101 products
personally, out of my home, for no charge, provided all expenses came out
of (gross) sales.  This included taking a proof to a local printer and
printing on 8.5 x 11 inch paper, dealing with color laminated covers, etc.

I know for a fact that Jo Grant offered to (using my color printer) produce
and distribute 101 Cargos and 101 Plots from his (then) temporary U.S.
location.

Both offers were not taken up.

I charitably assume that they want a more professional vector for
distribution.  My offer, however, is still good, and what's more, I assumed
(and assume) that if a 'legitamate' publisher/vendor comes along I will
immediately cease operations/rights/whatever.

But then, I suspect this offer too will go for naught.  Besides, there are
other people in the U.S. closer to BITS than I who are more likely
candidates for informal distribution.

Pete


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:55:22 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: re: Newbie Questions

>Michael Breen wrote:
[snip]
>>What exact year does the T4 campaign start or if there wasn't a set date what
>>have most people started it at?
>

Dom Mooney Responded;
>The T4.1 (ie revised and expanded T4) playtest draft set the date as 97
>Imperial. This was seen in later books by IG eg Missions of State. The date
>would currently be 98....

So that would make T4.1 actually called....

Traveller 98!

Pete


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #695
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Wednesday, July 29 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 696



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

re: [101st] Update
SSOM SS
Re: Newbie Questions
Re: TNE Combat
Mecha
Nature of the 3rd Imperium
Revisionist running pig-dog lackeys
Re: Mecha
Re: Relation between Imperium and planetary governments
M0 Timeline
Re: LOM
Newbee2
Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**
Re: Some thoughts about Milieu 0 (Less Long)
Re: M0 Timeline
Re: Newbee2
Re: M0 Timeline
Re: Newbee2
Re: Newbie Questions
Re: active sensor ranges
Re: Newbie Questions
Re: M0 Timeline
Re: Some thoughts about Milieu 0 (Less Long)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:18:36 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: [101st] Update

SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> wrote:

>We really need to finish the draft of 101st in the next three weeks to
>ensure it is published at GenCon.

Please disregard this post. I stupidly posted to the wrong address (this is
related to a planned BITS product).

Dom (apologies for the waste of bandwidth)

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 10:46:33 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: SSOM SS

>I'm working on the finishing touches to my spreadsheet that implements
>the normal space and jumpspace procedure flowcharts from the back of
>DGP's Starship Operators Manual.  How many of you would be interested in
>getting a copy?  As I have no web page of my own, if there's enough
>interest, would someone like to volunteer to host it on their web page?

Aye! Send one here.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:52:53 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Newbie Questions

Peter H. Brenton wrote:

> >Imperial. This was seen in later books by IG eg Missions of State. The date
> >would currently be 98....
> 
> So that would make T4.1 actually called....
> 
> Traveller 98!
> 

Only if it makes all your previously installed Traveller versions and
add-ons stop working...

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:56:37 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: TNE Combat

On 07/29/98 at 09:21 AM,  chauncey smith <Csmith@icdc.com> said:

>>>> head.  It *looks* like there are two ways of handling pen, one for
>>>> personal weapons and one for vehicle/ship weapons, I don't think that's
>>>> true, but it sure looked that way to me.

>>>Actually, that is true.

>>Well, by golly, it shouldn't be!  ;-> It would explain why it bugged me,
>>though.

>OK there is 2 kinds of PEN.... in TNE... REALLY ....

I didn't say there *weren't*, just that there *shouldn't* be.  ;-> 

For game purposes PEN should be PEN, whether it is penetrating body
armor, hull armor, or unarmored skin.  Why not have one simple (even if
not quite as realistic) way to handle it?  

And the same goes for rating the DV of the weapons!  There's no need to
have one type for vehicles and another for personal combat.


Eris
AKU GM
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:48:27 -0700
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Mecha

>> >Call in
>> >> the 15 meter
>> >> tall mechanical Lizardiod.
>> >In other words call out Mecha to fight Mecha?
>>      But my mecha's a Lizardiod.  It goes to 11.
>My Mecha is a VF-2SS SAP Special.  It goes to 12.

   But it's not a Lizardiod, is it?  :-)


- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
It was a typical net.exercise -- a screaming mob pounding on a greasy spot 
on the pavement, where used to lie the carcass of a dead horse.
                 http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:22:47 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Nature of the 3rd Imperium

>Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 19:01:11 -0400
>From: Matthew Harelick <matth@CYBERNEX.NET>
>Subject: Nature of the Imperium
>
>Hi:
>While I have played traveller for awhile, I have never used the Imperium
> setting, and I have some questions about it.

Well, Matt, It is a subject of contention even amongst my GROUP, let alone
the list, but I'll give you the run-down from my TU.

1) The imperium is a feudally organized alliance of worlds, with certain
trade and legal restrictions. Basically, the Imperium has the following
powers: To raise and maintain a military; to declare interstellar war; to
tax WORLDS and NOBLES (but not other individuals); to establish such public
services as may be needed on an interstellar scale (the IISS, ISIS, IMOJ,
Etc); to Regulate, issue, mint, distribute and control interstellar
currency; to define the basic rioghts of a sophont; to define what is a
sophont and therefore a protected being.

The imperium sets certain requirements of member worlds: No perpetual
slavery; That Murder, Treason, and Piracy shall be crimes throughout; that
imperiam officials shall not be prevented in their duties by any local
laws, that a per capita and percentage of GPP Tax be paid annually; that a
certain value of land be lain aside for the issuing to imperial noblemen;
that the government select of allow to be selected for them an Imperial
Liaison, who shall then be henceforth the Nobleman of said world,
responsible for the maintenance of and administration of the Starport
Extrality Zone.

The Imperium reserves only a few rights unto itself: Determining tthe
nature of being a Sophont; Use of Chem, Nuke, Bio, or other weapons of mass
destruction; the right to allow psionics (although not to prevent local
prohibitions); the right to appoint imperial noblemen; the establishment of
minimum safety and commercial regulation of spacecraft and starships;
regulation of interstellar Commerce.

2) WHat the military defends is the Imperium's Interests: The member
worlds, especailly those holding imperial installations; the trade which
makes the economy grow; the freedom from outside oppressive forces; the
common peace.

What they do in cases of local member worlds warring with each other is
monitor for CBR/NBC warfare... and if found, stop it by pre-emptive strike
and re-alignment of the using government. If a member world breaks the few
imperial laws, the imperium may simply increase the tax assessment, or
totally wipe out the structure of government... in any case, the imperium
does not require that a planet (or even nation) join, but once it does,
there is NO LEGAL SECCESSION, save by Imperial Decree.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:32:34 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Revisionist running pig-dog lackeys

Ian (or is that Mister Revisionist?),
  It is sad to see backsliders denying the truth of earlier works. It
seems odd that the theories of the early pioneers (i.e., Striker by GDW)
should be denied in favour of a body of revisionist apologism cobbled
together by the lowest of party hacks (i.e., IG). I assume that some
unforeseen trouble is responsible for your intransigient attitude, but
I feel that your reputation can yet be rehabilitated by a full retraction
before a Peoples' Tribunal. What date would be convenient for you?

  BTW, any word on infiltrating the TML RoM TL Flamewar/Debate of 1997
Historical Re-enactment Society? This might be a useful platform for
expounding the message of Traveller Socialist Conspiracy.

  Best wishes.

  Assistant Secretary, Scheduling, Internal Security Bureau.

>From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #636
...
>Steve (or should I say Comrade Hudson),
>
>It appears that you have not been keeping up with your ideology sessions.
>Whilst the Early Works are valuable and provide useful insights, they are
>not definitive - the most recent works to come out of the Central Committee
>(in this case FFS2) should be regarded as definitive. We should not fall
>into Gloranthaism, where the oldest resources are regarded as the most
>definitive (unless Gregged at a later date).
>
>Vice-chair of Ideology Whitchurch 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:23:40 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Mecha

> >> >Call in
> >> >> the 15 meter
> >> >> tall mechanical Lizardiod.
> >> >In other words call out Mecha to fight Mecha?
> >>      But my mecha's a Lizardiod.  It goes to 11.
> >My Mecha is a VF-2SS SAP Special.  It goes to 12.
>    But it's not a Lizardiod, is it?  :-)

Nope, but it ate one for breakfast this morning, why?

Legate Legion, Militant Jewish Terrorist
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"The system does not matter, its ROLE-Playing that matters." - Me to
Acid_Blue, Chuckles, & Rob the Lumberjackman.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:03:23 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Relation between Imperium and planetary governments

On 07/29/98 at 12:48 PM,  "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net> said:

>> Does anyone know the name of the short story where the earth was finally 
>> invited to join the interstellar community because a businessman was 
>> intrigued by the apparent fact that mail going very long distances 
>> always seemed to get there quicker than mail just going across town?  I 
>> read it long ago...

>I *remember* it, but I can't remember what it was *called*.

Was it in Analog?  Didn't it have the name Fong in the title or maybe someone named Fong was the main character?

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:34:14 EDT
From: WriteFool@aol.com
Subject: M0 Timeline

Dom Mooney wrote:
"Milieu 0 runs from 0 to 200. Buy the hardback campaign version if you get a
copy as the extra material includes a timeline..."


If the hardback is not an option is there any way to get the errata/different
material, especially the timeline?

Michael Breen

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:39:20 EDT
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re: LOM

DustyLV769@aol.com wrote:

>Has everybody else gotten thier copy already?  I still haven't recieved mine
>in the mail...it would be just my luck to have Uncle Sam lose it.  If anyone
>else hasn't yet gotten thiers I'll feel better...I'm starting to worry.


 Mine arrived here in California a while ago. Good Stuff.

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:44:31 -0400
From: "Alan R. Chambers" <alanross@mindspring.com>
Subject: Newbee2

Hello,
I'm new to the list and looking at geting back into Traveller.
What is the current edition of the Game? The last Traveller Books
I bought were for Mega Traveller. I still have all the small
books for the original game.
Alan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:00:08 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: [TWG] **BITS PRODUCT RELEASE - 101 Governments**

On 07/29/98 at 02:56 PM,  SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> said:

>>Has BITS checked with Crazy Egor's, Discount Games, Dragon's Trove, or
>>Titan Games to see if they would be interested in stocking a few copies?

>Do you want to send me URLs/email/snail mail details...? I can pass
>them to Andy.

Here are the addresses/URLs. I'm posting to the list because some of our
members might like to check these vendors out for older copies of
Traveller material.

Crazy Egor's:  http://www.crazyegors.com/homeFR.html
               can't connect right now and a thunderstorm is brewing, 

Discount Games: http://www.discountgames.com/
                dgc1@flash.net
                Discount Games Company
                3516 Rochester Rd.
                Troy, MI 48083
                Phone: (248) 524-3235
                Fax: (248) 740-2728 

Dragon's Trove:   http://www.dragontrove.com/
                  info@dragontrove.com 
                  The Dragon's Trove
                  PO Box 5203
                  Kendall Park, NJ 08824-5203

Titan Games:  http://titan-games.com/titansite/
              orders@titan-games.com
              Titan Games, Inc. 
              509 W. Park Avenue 
              Champaign, Illinois 61820 

>>Has BITS dropped a note to Hyperbooks?  Terry would handle the on-line
>>purchase and after BITS received a confirmation they would ship out the
>>product.  Because we're talking about shipping from England costs would
>>be higher, but probably not much more.

>That may be an idea - we initially rejected Hyperbooks as we don't
>want to distribute the material as on-line docs (yet).

Hyperbooks:  http://www.hyperbooks.com/
             taustin@hyperbooks.com

Have Andy let us know which vendor he wants us to contact and we can
encourage a vendor with quite a few requests.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:11:25 -7
From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Some thoughts about Milieu 0 (Less Long)

On 28 Jul 98, at 19:50, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> > Other examples can be had, but just about anything that can work 
> > in a first contact scenario with a world (i.e. just about anything), 
> > can be made to work in M0.  It is one of the better things about it 
> > as opposed to CT or even MT.  There's a lot of there out there, and 
> > not only do the PC's not know much about it, but what they know 
> > is quite possibly dead wrong.
> 
> "It ain't what you don't know that kills you. It's what you know that
>  ain't so..."
> 
> One nasty that occurs to me is a planet that was a religious
> dictatorship (or oligarchy, either will work). And it still is. It's
> even the same religion. Only thing is, there's been a "reformation" or
> a "revelation". So the actual *practices* are almost 180 degrees from
> what they used to be. This could be a *fatal* mistake...

Exactly.  :-)

Stu
Stuart L. Dollar                sdollar@goodnet.com
- ---------------------------------------------------
Published Game Designer, Frustrated Novelist
"Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God."
- -Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:16:00 -7
From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: M0 Timeline

On 29 Jul 98, at 16:34, WriteFool@aol.com wrote:

> If the hardback is not an option is there any way to get the errata/different
> material, especially the timeline?

Good question that.  It is my understanding that one of the 
members of this list has been given permission to post this 
information in some form by Marc Miller.  I have asked this person 
to hold off publishing it for a bit longer, as I am still engaged in a 
seemingly fruitless effort to extract a bit more payment out of IG 
before sicking the law firm of Dewey, Cheatham, and Howe on 
them.  One of the works for which I am unpaid is the 
aforementioned extra material.

It is my hope not only to see it published, but I might just write a 
little bit more to supplement it... :-)

BTW, there is still a lot of IG material in channels, and most of the 
FLGS's I frequent still have some of the stuff, so it might not be too 
late to find it before it goes.

Stu
Stuart L. Dollar                sdollar@goodnet.com
- ---------------------------------------------------
Published Game Designer, Frustrated Novelist
"Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God."
- -Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:28:26 -0700
From: Thanasis Kinias <optimal@cns-egypt.com>
Subject: Re: Newbee2

Alan R. Chambers wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> I'm new to the list and looking at geting back into Traveller.
> What is the current edition of the Game? The last Traveller Books
> I bought were for Mega Traveller. I still have all the small
> books for the original game.
> Alan

I've been off of the TML for a couple of years due to bandwidth problems and
just rejoined.  I'm also a bit perplexed by the "state of the game".

Sorry if this has been done to death, but I can't find any online info as to
where Traveller is at the moment.

Thanasis Kinias

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:53:51 -0700
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Re: M0 Timeline

>the law firm of Dewey, Cheatham, and Howe

Oh d*mn, I've joined the splurt club!!  Mt. Dew on the keyboard is not a
good thing!  8^D

E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller
IMTU tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls
The early bird gets the worm, BUT
   the second mouse gets the cheese!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:11:27 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Newbee2

Whew...we seem to be getting a slew of these 'newbie' posts... a good
sign perhaps?

The official State Of Traveller

There Hath Been or Will Be 6 versions of Traveller:

Books 11-3, the original little black books 1977, aka CT

MegaTraveller	198?, aka MT

Traveller, The New Era, 1985-ish (iirc), AKA TNE

T4, the IG barracks publisher, 1987-88 aka T4

T4.1 Marc's current version-in-preparation, TBA? A publisher is being
negotiated with from the last thing Marc said about this, he's looking,
IIRC at a late '98 -99 timeframe.

Gurps:Traveller, being printed feverishly as I write this, eta,
September. AKA G:T

The story line goes from the old Imperium, that of the 5th frontier war
(CT)to the rebellion (MT), to the aftermasth, collapse and rebuilding of
civilization(TNE). In story line terms, this covers the timespan of
roughly years 1100 to 1220-30 of the Third Imperium dating.

T4 covers years -20 to 200 of the Third Imperium, or the founding years,
again a time of rebuilding civilization.

G:T shares time with CT up to the precipitating event of the Rebellion,
and veers off into a parallel timeline where Strephon is in fact, not
assasinated, Dulinor is killed in a mysterious explosion en route to the
meeting where he was going to kill Strephon. Sort of CT with the
heightened tensions of the Rebellion, but none of the outright warfare.
Helmed by none other than Loren Wiseman, which, imo, bodes quite well
for the quality of the work.

T4.1, I'm not sure what time frame is covered, although I do know that
the Third Imperium is definitely the setting.

Thanasis Kinias wrote:
> 
> Alan R. Chambers wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> > I'm new to the list and looking at geting back into Traveller.
> > What is the current edition of the Game? The last Traveller Books
> > I bought were for Mega Traveller. I still have all the small
> > books for the original game.
> > Alan
> 
> I've been off of the TML for a couple of years due to bandwidth problems and
> just rejoined.  I'm also a bit perplexed by the "state of the game".
> 
> Sorry if this has been done to death, but I can't find any online info as to
> where Traveller is at the moment.
> 
> Thanasis Kinias

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 17:50:53 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Newbie Questions

At 11:52 pm 7/28/98 EDT, you wrote:
>Hello,
>
>Having just joined the list I have the obvious questions that you'll probably
>want to email me directly with answers to instead of wasting bandwith.  
>
>1.  What is the status of Traveller (not counting GURPS) or more specifically,
>T4 and Imperium Games.  Products seem rare and the web page is not as active
>as others I have seen.

	Pining for the fjords ...

	Seriously, IG is not only out of the Traveller business, but
prohibited by Marc Miller from attempting to dispose of any of their
remaining materials. Note this doesn't affect game stores or
distributors who already have materials available for sale.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 17:51:48 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: active sensor ranges

At 11:42 pm 7/28/98 -0500, you wrote:
>On 07/28/98 at 08:28 PM,  "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
said:
>
>>	This is also a bistatic array, something not currently modeled in
>>Traveller. Note that the signal was sent from one antenna, a *305*
>>meter one, and received by another, Arecibo's 70m dish. You can get
>>more gain out of 305 meters. They also don't say how much power
they
>>used. Any ideas?
>
>Also, how many "turns" of scanning were involved?  Was this a matter
of
>"zap!  There it is.", or was it a ",,,and the the fourth day we
resolved
>it well enough to say it is spinning." kind of thing?

	Also, they knew pretty well where it was. Things don't normally
drift that far off the L-1 point that quickly (although IIRC L1 is
*not* a stable point).
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 17:59:29 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Newbie Questions

At 11:52 am 7/29/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Peter H. Brenton wrote:
>> 
>> So that would make T4.1 actually called....
>> 
>> Traveller 98!
>> 
>
>Only if it makes all your previously installed Traveller versions
and
>add-ons stop working...

	And crashes your hard drive ... just got a panicked call today from
a friend who works for a local architecture firm. When your business
is on that HD, you aren't happy.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:01:59 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: M0 Timeline

At 03:16 pm 7/29/98 -7, you wrote:
>On 29 Jul 98, at 16:34, WriteFool@aol.com wrote:
>
>> If the hardback is not an option is there any way to get the
errata/different
>> material, especially the timeline?
>
>Good question that.  It is my understanding that one of the 
>members of this list has been given permission to post this 
>information in some form by Marc Miller.  I have asked this person 
>to hold off publishing it for a bit longer, as I am still engaged in
a 
>seemingly fruitless effort to extract a bit more payment out of IG 
>before sicking the law firm of Dewey, Cheatham, and Howe on 

	If you actually do go the law route, let me know ... I've decided
it's not worth my efforts to deal with IG any more.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 17:11:56 -7
From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Some thoughts about Milieu 0 (Less Long)

On 28 Jul 98, at 23:22, Eris Reddoch wrote:

> >Hmm.  There should be more than politics.  
> 
> Don't get me wrong, Stu. I'm not knocking what you all did with _Milieu
> 0_.  I just don't think you could get it all into one book.

No offense taken.  I agree with you, actually.  What I would have 
liked to take the opportunity to do would have been to build on what 
was done with M0 with additional material.  One of the things we 
proposed, but which never got done in light of IG's year long death 
dance was to develop specific sectors that we thought would be 
useful, within the context of the M0 campaign, and basically 
develop the sector within the context of the 150-200 years covered 
by M0.

For example, we proposed a sector book on Antares.  This would 
get into the politics of the region, the cultures that had grown up, 
detailing key worlds, the races minor and major that populated it, 
and source material for the key events in that sector the 200 (The 
chief ones being the Julian War and the Antares Pacification 
Campaigns, of course).

I come from the school that says that Traveller's universe is TOO 
big, and too generic to do sweeping sourcebooks that cover the 
entire Imperium with anything more than a broad political brush.  
Get too detailed into anything else, and you quickly run out of 
space.  The suggestions we had were to take specific backdrops 
and paint them in more detail, both as a play aid for lazy referees 
(count me in this category at times), and as an example for others 
to draw inspiration from/plagiarize for their own campaigns.  If M0 
became the campaign setting for T5, I'd like to see this approach 
used.
> 
> Go back and look at Chp. 5, Refferring Milieu 0, the first 6 pages were
> *all* politics.  I know non-political things eventually are included,
> but can you blame me for seeing a focus on the political?

Like it or not, the period covered by the original M0 time period (0-
20) is primarily one of politics and economics.  Exploration played 
a big part, and I agree should have been a bigger part.  On the 
other hand, exploration with an eye to economic development 
would be the hammer to knock the nail in from Cleon's perspective. 
 Jo Grant's work on that topic is good.

Realize the constraints the authors worked under.  The other 
authors were given 3 weeks, and an outline to work from that had a 
heavy political emphasis (Each did about 15000 words).  I 
personally did the same amount of work as the others in about 48 
hours after one of the original contracted parties backed out for 
personal reasons.

The 1997 draft proposal which we (Joe and I) submitted for 1998 
product release would have answered a lot of these concerns.  
Sadly, due to IG's well-documented money woes, that didn't come 
to pass.

Believe me, I'd love to give the setting a second go, because I think 
it had a lot more potential than anything that came before it.

Stu
Stuart L. Dollar                sdollar@goodnet.com
- ---------------------------------------------------
Published Game Designer, Frustrated Novelist
"Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God."
- -Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #696
**********************************

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Traveller-digest       Thursday, July 30 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 697



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: M0 Timeline 
Re:  Re: active sensor ranges
Re: No Subject
Re: TNE Combat
Re:  Re: active sensor ranges
Re: No Subject
Re: No Subject 
Exam Question:  Non-Traveller Item
Re: Some thoughts about Milieu 0 (Less Long)
Re: Behind the Claw
New to the list
Terra TL consistency
Re: Behind the Claw
Grenade Fishing on the TML...
Re: Some thoughts about Milieu 0 (Less Long)
Re: Some thoughts about Milieu 0 (Less Long)
re: Newbie Questions 
Re: active sensor ranges
Re: Some thoughts about Milieu 0 (Less Long)
Re: GURPS Traveller
Re: Behind the Claw
re: M0 Timeline
Galactic File Format
Re: Galactic File Format

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 20:15:59 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: M0 Timeline 

> >the law firm of Dewey, Cheatham, and Howe
> 
> Oh d*mn, I've joined the splurt club!!  Mt. Dew on the keyboard is not a
> good thing!  8^D

Just when you thought it was safe to read TML...

Keven

- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:16:30 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re:  Re: active sensor ranges

>[detection of the SOHO spacecraft at 1.5 million km by arecebo radar]
>Also, how many "turns" of scanning were involved?  Was this a matter of
>"zap!  There it is.", or was it a ",,,and the the fourth day we resolved
>it well enough to say it is spinning." kind of thing?

The article implied they were transmitting for about an hour (so it's 
basically one Traveller space combat turn.) 

To be honest, I doubt this will help with salvaging SOHO, but it's probably
the record for radar detection of a man-made object...

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:20:42 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: No Subject

 
>>Douglas Berry <dberry@hooked.net>  sigs:
>>>"Come to Life, Iron Chef!"
>> Have you tried to translate the Iron Chefs into Traveller yet?

"Tonight's ingredient is...Hiver Corn Dogs!"

(My mental vision would have a Human, Aslan, and Hiver Iron Chef...)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:25:26 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: TNE Combat

 
>For game purposes PEN should be PEN, whether it is penetrating body
>armor, hull armor, or unarmored skin.  Why not have one simple (even if
>not quite as realistic) way to handle it?  

Mathematically they were equivalent, if I recall correctly. A personnel
weapon might be rated with DV 6 and pen 1-2-3 (meaning it would do 6 dice
against an unarmoured target and go through 6, 3 and 2cm of armour at the 
three ranges.) A vehicle weaponw tih the same performance would have a 
PEN of 6-3-2, which just directly gives how many cm of armour it goes
through. THis is pretty reasonable; vehicle weapons are mostly shooting at
armoured targets, personnel weapons mostly care about damage to un/light
armoured targets. 

(Lasers are kind of an anomaly in this, but are more for space combat than
vehicles anyway.)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:29:36 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re:  Re: active sensor ranges

At 06:16 pm 7/29/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>>[detection of the SOHO spacecraft at 1.5 million km by arecebo
radar]
>>Also, how many "turns" of scanning were involved?  Was this a
matter of
>>"zap!  There it is.", or was it a ",,,and the the fourth day we
resolved
>>it well enough to say it is spinning." kind of thing?
>
>The article implied they were transmitting for about an hour (so
it's 
>basically one Traveller space combat turn.) 
>
>To be honest, I doubt this will help with salvaging SOHO, but it's
probably
>the record for radar detection of a man-made object...

	I'm keeping my mind open about salvage. If anybody's interested,
BTW, I can post a layman's explanation of what went wrong, and how
NASA hopes to salvage it, seeing as I have strong professional
interest in this area (I do Air Force satellite ops engineering for a
living ...). I'm already preparing a "lessons learned" briefing for
both our operations crews and satellite engineers on the subject
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:37:48 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: No Subject

At 06:20 PM 7/29/98 -0700, you wrote:
> 
>>>Douglas Berry <dberry@hooked.net>  sigs:
>>>>"Come to Life, Iron Chef!"
>>> Have you tried to translate the Iron Chefs into Traveller yet?
>
>"Tonight's ingredient is...Hiver Corn Dogs!"
>
>(My mental vision would have a Human, Aslan, and Hiver Iron Chef...)

Picture the Vilani Iron Chef grabbing Kishi (the bitchy food critic) for
use in a battle...

Is it just me, or is Kaga (the host) a Vilani noble slumming on Earth?
- --

Douglas Berry
dberry@hooked.net
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry
"Come to Life, Iron Chef!"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 22:32:25 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: No Subject 

>  
> >>Douglas Berry <dberry@hooked.net>  sigs:
> >>>"Come to Life, Iron Chef!"
> >> Have you tried to translate the Iron Chefs into Traveller yet?
> 
> "Tonight's ingredient is...Hiver Corn Dogs!"

Funny, they don't *TASTE* like corn dogs...

> (My mental vision would have a Human, Aslan, and Hiver Iron Chef...)

<shudder>

Keven
- -- 
==============================================================================
          http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/index.html
==============================================================================
 "When the going gets weird, | jamstar@glasscity.net  |  Keven R. Pittsinger
  the weird turn pro." --    |    aa253@po.cwru.edu   |   Certified Public
  Dr. Hunter S. Thompson     |        SUE ME!!        |       Nuisance

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 20:54:49 -0600
From: "Eric T.  or Maryann C. Holmes" <holmberg@thuntek.net>
Subject: Exam Question:  Non-Traveller Item

All:

Thought you would enjoy this.

From The University of Oklahoma, School of Chemical Engineering, a Dr.
Schlambaugh's class.(The good doctor is famous for asking final exam
questions like, "Why do airplanes fly?")

In May, 1997, the Momentum, Heat and Mass Transfer II final exam question
was, "Is hell exothermic or endothermic?  Support your answer with proof!

Most students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Laws or some
variant. One student, however, wrote the following:

"First we must postulate that if souls exist, they must have some mass.  If
they do, then a mole of souls also must have a mass.  So at what rate are
souls moving into hell and at what rate are they leaving hell?  I think we
can safely assume that once a soul gets to hell it does not leave, and thus
no souls are leaving.  As for souls entering hell, we must look at the
different religions that exist in the world today.

Some of the religions state that if you are not a member of their religion,
you are going to hell.  Since there are more than one of these religions,
and people can not truly belong to more than one religion, we can project
that all people, and therefore all souls, go to hell.  With the birth and
death rates what they are, we can expect the number of souls in hell to
increase exponentially.  Now, we must look at the rate of change in the
volume of hell.  Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and
pressure in hell to remain the same, the ratio of the mass of souls and
volume of hell need to stay constant.

So:

A) If hell is expanding at a rate faster than the rate at which Souls enter
hell, then the temperature and the pressure will drop until hell freezes over,

 or 

B) If hell is expanding at a rate slower than the rate at which souls are
entering hell, then the temperature and pressure in hell will increase
until all hell breaks loose.

So which is it?

If we accept the postulate given to me by Theresa Banyan during Freshman
year, that "...it will be a cold day in hell before I sleep with you..."and
take into account the fact that I still have NOT succeeded in having sexual
relations with her, then "A" cannot be true.

Thus and therefore hell is exothermic. QED "

The student, Tim Graham, got the only "A".






Eric T. Holmes
holmberg@thuntek.net
6pm to Midnight Mountain Time
505-896-8061

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 22:16:51 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Some thoughts about Milieu 0 (Less Long)

On 07/29/98 at 05:11 PM,  "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com> said:

>> Don't get me wrong, Stu. I'm not knocking what you all did with _Milieu
>> 0_.  I just don't think you could get it all into one book.

>No offense taken.  I agree with you, actually.  

I thought you might, but I didn't what anyone to misinterpret what I was
writing as a knock.

>What I would have liked to take the opportunity to do would have been
>to build on what was done with M0 with additional material.

>For example, we proposed a sector book on Antares.  This would  get
>into the politics of the region, the cultures that had grown up, 
>detailing key worlds, the races minor and major that populated it, 
>and source material for the key events in that sector the 200 (The 
>chief ones being the Julian War and the Antares Pacification 
>Campaigns, of course).

That *is* an interesting area that hasn't been covered very well up to
this point.  In fact, has the whole Julian Wars/Protectorate area been
officially covered at all?

>I come from the school that says that Traveller's universe is TOO 
>big, and too generic to do sweeping sourcebooks that cover the 
>entire Imperium with anything more than a broad political brush.  
>Get too detailed into anything else, and you quickly run out of 
>space.  

That's why I suggested restricting the area and time covered.  I don't
remember if there is official timeline already established before T4
that detailed just exactly what happened during the -50 to +50 period,
but if there wasn't, I'd have slowed the Sylean's down and made the
Interstellar Confederation and the Star Kingdom (I think that's them) much
more serious threats.  As it stands in the M0 timeline all the serious
threats to the 3I's immediate survival were wiped out early, and it
wasn't until they had spread over the whole Core sector that they
started running into stiff resistance...maybe I'm wrong, but that's what
it seemed like to me. 

>The suggestions we had were to take specific backdrops  and
>paint them in more detail, both as a play aid for lazy referees 
>(count me in this category at times), and as an example for others 
>to draw inspiration from/plagiarize for their own campaigns.  If M0 
>became the campaign setting for T5, I'd like to see this approach 
>used.

We'll just have to wait to see what Marc has in mind, I guess.
 
>> Go back and look at Chp. 5, Refferring Milieu 0, the first 6 pages were
>> *all* politics.  I know non-political things eventually are included,
>> but can you blame me for seeing a focus on the political?

>Like it or not, the period covered by the original M0 time period (0-
>20) is primarily one of politics and economics.  Exploration played 
>a big part, and I agree should have been a bigger part.  On the 
>other hand, exploration with an eye to economic development  would be
>the hammer to knock the nail in from Cleon's perspective. 
> Jo Grant's work on that topic is good.

I realize that, but not everyone wants to play a political campaign and
the exploration presented was really exploitation, it seemed to lots of
folks.  M0 presented a "darker" view of the Imperium's imperialism,
probably quite realistic, but not the "pure and noble" view that some
wanted. Oh, I'm likely overstating the case here, so don't mind me.

>Believe me, I'd love to give the setting a second go, because I think
> it had a lot more potential than anything that came before it.

Yeah, I had high hopes too.  Of course, I doubt I'd ever be happy
playing in somebody else's universe anyway.  Maybe the real reason I
advocate a short time/compact area approach is so I can use that as a
seed and grow my own universe around it.

Eris

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:36:05 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Behind the Claw

Loren ( & SJ):

Why not include the UPP's in the back, ala MegaTraveller Imperial
Encyclopaedia's listing of the marches, with a UPP Guideline Sheet ala the
one from Spinwarrd Marches Campiagn. Should only take about 5 pages total
for just the marches, if laid out correctly. (2 col at about 9pt text,
preferably something clean to read, like Helvetica or Arial). The listing
of all the Marches UWP's from the MTJ "Domain of Deneb Special Supplement,
with full UPP+Ext+StellarData takes 3.4 pages in two collumn.

The benefits to those making crossovers between GT and the rest of the
Traveller Systems/sourcebooks/etc would be wonderful.

All the Text needed to explain it would be something like the following:

"The UPP (Universal Planetary Profile, sometimes called UWP or Universal
World Profile) is a Traveller shorthand for describing a world. It is
included here both for allowing easy use of this supplement with Traveller,
and so GURPS: Traveller players can decode UPP's found in products for
other editions of Traveller. The chart on pg. XX gives the values for the
various entries. The order of data is: Starport type; Size;
Atmosphere;Hydrographics (coverage of the surface with fluid or ices);
Population Exponent; Government Type; Law Level; Tech Level. The "PPG" data
is Population Multiplier, Planetoid Belts in system, and Gas Giants in
system. Stellar type information is presented in the normal scientific
method, as presented in GURPS: Space. Trade classifications indicate
certain economic, physical, or social factors of the world."

Loren, SJ, you have my permission to use this text if you want. Just,
PLEASE, include the UPP's.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><http://local.uaa.alaska.edu/~aswfh>
<Mailto:ASWFH@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>   ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:05:29 -0500
From: Matt Bowerman <silverwind@earthpath.com>
Subject: New to the list

Greetings...

I have just joined the list a couple of weeks ago and have been enjoying
the discusion here very much.  I started playing Traveller with it's
initial release way back in the 70's, but due to the pressures of real life
had to give it and my books up just as TNE was coming out.  I have since
been in the process of rediscovering the game and I am thrilled to see that
it has returned to its roots.

I would be interested in finding a group playing Traveller in the Dallas /
Fort Worth area.  Just drop me a note if you know of anyone looking for a
new player.

*** now returning to deep-lurking mode ***

********************************************************
Matt Bowerman
silverwind@earthpath.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:40:41 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Terra TL consistency

  Originally brought to us by Mr. Harold Hale, heroically taking on
the web presence of the Solomani Bureau of Agit-Prop (pretty brave
considering that they're around TL 20!).

>[snippish biggish]
>>   It is entirely consistent for Terra to be early TL 15 in 1000, TL 11
>>during the Long Night, TL 12 during the RoM, and TL 10-12 during the
>>Interstellar Wars.

  Can anyone find any grounds (preferably referenced) to disagree with
the above statement, with the proviso that the "early TL 15" need not
require evidence (see I:E) of TL 15 naval/military production?


*  Brought to you by the 1997 ROM TL Flamewar Historical Re-enactment
Society, with the assistance of the Traveller Socialist Conspiracy. *

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 19:38:11 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Behind the Claw

Date sent:      	Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:36:05 -0800
From:           	"William F. Hostman" <aswfh@UAA.ALASKA.EDU>

> Loren ( & SJ):

> Why not include the UPP's in the back, ala MegaTraveller Imperial
> Encyclopaedia's listing of the marches, with a UPP Guideline Sheet ala the
> one from Spinwarrd Marches Campiagn. Should only take about 5 pages total
> for just the marches, if laid out correctly. (2 col at about 9pt text,
> preferably something clean to read, like Helvetica or Arial).

Uhm, the UPP is a tabular data format, you have to use a monotype, courier 
(shudder), or one of the grotesque monotypes (monaco is one of my favorites).

>The listing
> of all the Marches UWP's from the MTJ "Domain of Deneb Special Supplement,
> with full UPP+Ext+StellarData takes 3.4 pages in two collumn.

But that is roughly 3,000 words (quite substantial in a roughly 100,000 word 
suppliment).

> The benefits to those making crossovers between GT and the rest of the
> Traveller Systems/sourcebooks/etc would be wonderful.

I think theres a better chance of it being put it on the web or maybe available 
with a SAE. Don't get me wrong, I'd *love* to see the UPP's included, but it 
would be a fairly subtantial "investment" in the suppliment, and I have this weird 
suspision that SJG might not want to include 2-3 pages which are basically 
redundant vis-a-vis GURPS.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 01:33:44 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Grenade Fishing on the TML...

  If there any people on the mailing list who are in the Lower
Mainland or Southern Vancouver Island areas and who didn't get
their copy of LoM through me, then you might wish to contact me
about the TML gathering in downtown Vancouver being (tentatively
scheduled for August 8th or 9th.

  Current plans are for a coffee or luncheon type meeting and chat.
Suggested topics include ROM TL, near-C rocks, Virus, and whether
or not Rob Prior really exists or is just a hoax perpetrated by
some Ontario school-kids.

And yes, we're hoping for a meeting place that's air-conditioned.

        shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 01:58:00 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Some thoughts about Milieu 0 (Less Long)

dberry@hooked.net wrote

> At 12:59 AM 7/29/98 -0500, Eris wrote:
> 
> >Ricardo O'Brien, played by the heroic Bruce Johnson,
> 
> I see.. any chance of this ship falling into a Time Warp?

I thought anyone could do a Time Warp.  Its just a jump to the left....

Lets go do the Time Warp again!

Peter - who is suddenly considering UPPS & skills for the individuals
from Rocky Horror

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:15:46 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Some thoughts about Milieu 0 (Less Long)

dberry@hooked.net wrote:

>At 12:59 AM 7/29/98 -0500, Eris wrote:
>>Ricardo O'Brien, played by the heroic Bruce Johnson,
>
>I see.. any chance of this ship falling into a Time Warp?

Just a step to the left...... and a *jump* to the right?

How many time warps is it for you now?


Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:16:02 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Newbie Questions 

"Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu> wrote:

>So that would make T4.1 actually called....
>
>Traveller 98!

Hmm. I was hoping for Traveller 8.5 or Traveller X....

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 01:46:05 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: active sensor ranges

In mail you write:

> Do you know if anyone has tried the same technique to attempt to locate the
> missing Mars mission (the name of which escapes me) that disappeared a few
> years back?

I doubt it. This was at the Earth/Moon system's L1 point. That's maybe
2 light seconds out (closer to 1). Mars, at close approch is something
like 16 light *minutes* away. That's around 500 times as far away. And
that means the signal would be 1/500^4 as strong. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 02:33:23 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Some thoughts about Milieu 0 (Less Long)

"Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com> wrote:

>On 28 Jul 98, at 23:22, Eris Reddoch wrote:
>
>> >Hmm.  There should be more than politics.
>>
>> Don't get me wrong, Stu. I'm not knocking what you all did with _Milieu
>> 0_.  I just don't think you could get it all into one book.
>
>No offense taken.  I agree with you, actually.  What I would have
>liked to take the opportunity to do would have been to build on what
>was done with M0 with additional material.  One of the things we
>proposed, but which never got done in light of IG's year long death
>dance was to develop specific sectors that we thought would be
>useful, within the context of the M0 campaign, and basically
>develop the sector within the context of the 150-200 years covered
>by M0.

It actually went a bit further than you think. We had got about 8
subsectors into Dagudashaag when IG went under.

Shame really, it would have been a nice playground with background for the
whole of M0, competing PEs and some really nice plot hooks (a few
ex-Interstellar Confederacy forces out for revenge - Doug Berry did a
gorgeous ship design).

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:08:40 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

As GURPS also is published in German Language, will this also happen to
the Traveller module? Not that I wanted only the German version, but this
would be the first German Traveller after, say, 10 years.

Perhaps this would bring it back to some minds in this country as I
always hear things like: 'Traveller' What's that? or 'Traveller'? Oh
that's a little game, isn't it?

And this from my own party!.

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:15:32 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: Behind the Claw

On Wed, 29 Jul 1998, William F. Hostman wrote:

> Loren, SJ, you have my permission to use this text if you want. Just,
> PLEASE, include the UPP's.

I vote for this, too. And if it's only a supplemental pages - anyone alse
to sign the list?

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 02:23:51 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: M0 Timeline

WriteFool@aol.com wrote:

>Dom Mooney wrote:
>"Milieu 0 runs from 0 to 200. Buy the hardback campaign version if you get a
>copy as the extra material includes a timeline..."

>If the hardback is not an option is there any way to get the errata/different
>material, especially the timeline?

Last I heard, Bryan Borich was trying to get permission to post it on his
website; I may be wrong, but I believe that the authors had to agree
permission as they haven't been paid yet. But this is a while back.

Anyone know the address/status of this?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:45:21 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Galactic File Format

Is the format for Galactic Files anywhere on line? I am trying to locate it
for Rob Prior so he can incorporate it to allow import of PC galactic files
into the forthcoming Imperial Grand Survey software for the Mac.

Thanks in advance,

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 07:59:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael and MJ Houghton <herveus@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Galactic File Format

Howdy!

Dom asked on Rob's behalf:
> Is the format for Galactic Files anywhere on line? I am trying to locate it
> for Rob Prior so he can incorporate it to allow import of PC galactic files
> into the forthcoming Imperial Grand Survey software for the Mac.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
The help files with Galactic include discussion of the file formats. In the
course of writing a Perl/Tk interface to those files, I have become a bit
familiar with the details.

I'd recommend unzipping Galactic and looking in galhelp/qna/data.

yours,
Michael
- -- 
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@access.digex.net  | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
                          | http://www.access.digex.net/~herveus/

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #697
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Thursday, July 30 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 698



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Some thoughts about Milieu 0 (Less Long)
Re: Some thoughts about Milieu 0 (Less Long)
Re: Some thoughts about Milieu 0 (Less Long)
Re: Iron Chefs (was Re: No Subject)
Re: Newbee2
re: Terra TL consistency
THUDDD results?
Re: Exothermic Hell
Re: UPP's in GURPS Traveller
TNE/economics question (again)
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #694
Re: Behind the Claw
Re: GURPS Traveller
Traveller Spreadsheet (MT)
Re: Traveller Spreadsheet (MT)
Keith "Lost Supplements" Collection
Re: Exam Question:  Non-Traveller Item
Re: Newbee2
Re: Galactic File Format
re: Terra TL consistency

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:05:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael and MJ Houghton <herveus@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Some thoughts about Milieu 0 (Less Long)

Howdy!

Dom wrote:
> dberry@hooked.net wrote:
> 
> >At 12:59 AM 7/29/98 -0500, Eris wrote:
> >>Ricardo O'Brien, played by the heroic Bruce Johnson,
> >
> >I see.. any chance of this ship falling into a Time Warp?
> 
> Just a step to the left...... and a *jump* to the right?
> 
> How many time warps is it for you now?
> 
no...

It's a jump to the left.... and a step to the ri-i-i-i-ight...

yours,
Michael

- -- 
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@access.digex.net  | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
                          | http://www.access.digex.net/~herveus/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 05:31:52 PDT
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Some thoughts about Milieu 0 (Less Long)

Stu wrote:
>Believe me, I'd love to give the setting a second go, because I think 
>it had a lot more potential than anything that came before it.
>

Oh, I don't know about that....  There were *thousands* of years that 
came before.... :->
The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 00:50:20 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Some thoughts about Milieu 0 (Less Long)

From:           	"Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Date sent:      	Thu, 30 Jul 1998 05:31:52 PDT

> Stu wrote:
> >Believe me, I'd love to give the setting a second go, because I think 
> >it had a lot more potential than anything that came before it.

> Oh, I don't know about that....  There were *thousands* of years that 
> came before.... :->

Hey give me a break, I'm working on the Interstellar Wars as fast as I can. After 
all I'm just a bear OVLB.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 06:15:24 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Iron Chefs (was Re: No Subject)

>Picture the Vilani Iron Chef grabbing Kishi (the bitchy food critic) for
>use in a battle...

>Is it just me, or is Kaga (the host) a Vilani noble slumming on Earth?

The MC is possibly the single most decadent-appearing human being I've
seen on television - which doesn't quite fit my picture of a Vilani
noble - but he is suitably obsessed with ritual and tradition.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:19:46 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Newbee2

>Whew...we seem to be getting a slew of these 'newbie' posts... a good
>sign perhaps?

I think so.

>The official State Of Traveller

[snip]

>MegaTraveller	198?, aka MT
>
>Traveller, The New Era, 1985-ish (iirc), AKA TNE
>
>T4, the IG barracks publisher, 1987-88 aka T4

Methinks you timeeline is a bit off, Megatraveller was published in 1987
(at least, thats the year in the cover of my MT Ref's Manual)

Traveller: The New Era was at earliest 1990, and I think 1991 or 2

It was IIRC 1995, in the fall, when GDW officially closed its doors after a
number of "running battles" with vars. dark forces.  That was a depressing
time on this list (or rather, it's predecessor).

"Marc Miller's Traveller", Published by Imperium Games (May it rest in
peace) was first released at GenCon 1996 amid great optimism and hope.

If any new folks want info on why IG went down, email me privately.  That's
one topic you just don't want to see on the list (especially if it takes
time to download your email).

Pete


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 06:21:21 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: Terra TL consistency

>>>   It is entirely consistent for Terra to be early TL 15 in 1000, TL 11
>>during the Long Night, TL 12 during the RoM, and TL 10-12 during the
>>Interstellar Wars.

>  Can anyone find any grounds (preferably referenced) to disagree with
>the above statement, with the proviso that the "early TL 15" need not
>require evidence (see I:E) of TL 15 naval/military production?

No Solomani world in the Solomani Rim is TL 15 in 1110 (ref: the original
Solomani Rim supplement) (I think there was one in Grand Survey that was.)
This implies that either (a) the Solomani forgot to make notes when 
evacuating Terra and hence couldn't bring any of their other worlds to 
TL15 even in a hundred years, or (b) Terra - and the whole confederation - 
was only TL14 in 1000. (Do the Solomani even *have* any TL14 units in I:E,
or are they almost all TL13?) 

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:33:17 -0500
From: "Andy Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: THUDDD results?

Does anyone know when the latest THUDDD results are going to be posted?

I know that Craig has had some problems in the past, and perhaps he is
suffering them once again (if so, my sympathies)...I was just wondering if
there is a new timetable.

Thanks...

+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                       |
| Home: igor@ames.net - http://www.ames.net/igor/                    |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/                    |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU: tc++(**) ru+ ge 3i+ jt- au+ ls+ kk+ hi+ as+ va+ dr+ so+ zh+  |
|       vi+ da+                                                      |
| Geek: GCS d- s+:+ a- C++ W++ w+++(-)$ PS+ PE t- 5++ X+ R+++ tv+    |
|       b+++ DI+ D-- G e+ h---- r+++ y++++                           |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:50:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Joseph M. Saul" <jmsaul@us.itd.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Exothermic Hell

>If we accept the postulate given to me by Theresa Banyan during Freshman
>year, that "...it will be a cold day in hell before I sleep with you..."and
>take into account the fact that I still have NOT succeeded in having sexual
>relations with her, then "A" cannot be true.
>
>Thus and therefore hell is exothermic. QED "
>
>The student, Tim Graham, got the only "A".

He also made a serious logical error.  Her statement actually equates to "if
I sleep with you, you'll know it's a cold day in hell" not "as soon as
there's a cold day in hell, I'm jumping your bones."

Joe Saul
jmsaul@umich.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:56:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Joseph M. Saul" <jmsaul@us.itd.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: UPP's in GURPS Traveller

William Hostman wrote:

>"The UPP (Universal Planetary Profile, sometimes called UWP or Universal
>World Profile) is a Traveller shorthand for describing a world. It is
>included here both for allowing easy use of this supplement with Traveller,
>and so GURPS: Traveller players can decode UPP's found in products for
>other editions of Traveller.

Good reasons, but I can think of another.  The UPP isn't just for the
players, it's also available to the *characters*.  AFAIK, people in the
Imperium know and use UPPs for planets, and can legitimately say to each
other things like "Hey, Eneri, our next port call is Law Level 6.  You got a
body pistol I can borrow?"

To me, this (presumably Vilani-derived) habit of quantifying things is an
intriguing aspect of Imperial culture, as well as a useful shorthand for the
players.  As a cultural fact alone, they deserve to be included.

If I'm wrong about this, hopefully Marc or Loren will be so kind as to set me
straight -- but I've always had the impression this was the case, from the
inclusion of UPPs in Traveller News Agency articles and so on.

(I wonder if the characters "know their own stats," too...)

Joe Saul
jmsaul@umich.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:19:50 +0100
From: trisen@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: TNE/economics question (again)

I got no replies to this question so I'm posting it again.

I am trying to build an economic model for a TL12/13 balkanised
world based on the "Colonial Economics" chapter of World Tamer's
Handbook (TNE) and have run into a stumbling block.

Both the road network table and the vehicle table on p33 only go
as far as TL8. I know roads aren't replaced by gravetics at TL8
(fused roads are available at TL12+).

Does anyone have an eratta for WTH or know what data these tables
should have above TL8 (especially TL12 and TL13)?

Thanks in advance.

Regards PLST
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen

___________________________________
To sign up for a free email account, visit http://www.postmaster.co.uk.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 07:24:19 -0700
From: "A. O'Mary" <omary@my-dejanews.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #694

>
>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:38:40 -0500
>From: Talisman 
>Subject: Travallar Spreadsheet
>
>Any Lotus 123 spread sheets out there?
Quattro Pro, Excel, and Lotus spreadsheets should interchange for the most part, although there may be occasional glitches. For example Excel calculates some formulas a little differently than Lotus, and Excel doesn't like Lotus macros. I like Lotus over Excel, myself, haven't tried QP. BTW, I have a Megatraveller starship spreadsheet in Lotus that should be finished in a couple of days, anyone still use MT starships? It's nowhere near Andy Akin's masterpiece level, but maybe it will help make life a _little_ easier for a rough draft. I'll be more than happy (wait, donning battle dress) to submit it for dissection, er, destruction, er, review, yes, that's it.
ALO


- -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/  Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 16:59:20 +0200
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Behind the Claw

> > Loren, SJ, you have my permission to use this text if you want. Just,
> > PLEASE, include the UPP's.
> 
> I vote for this, too. And if it's only a supplemental pages - anyone alse
> to sign the list?
yes, me. It would be a shame if this little ommission would reduce
compability and the chance of player-spillovers into the other system, thus
increasing sales.
I think a print size as it is in the Imperial Encycopedia, maybe one
type-size smaller, wouldn´t take too much space in the book!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 16:55:45 +0200
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

- ----------
> As GURPS also is published in German Language, will this also happen to
> the Traveller module? Not that I wanted only the German version, but this
> would be the first German Traveller after, say, 10 years.
don´t know it it will, but it probably is worth asking Pegasus Press, the
german publishers about it....
> 
> Perhaps this would bring it back to some minds in this country as I
> always hear things like: 'Traveller' What's that? or 'Traveller'? Oh
> that's a little game, isn't it?
Oh how i am hoping for traveller to make a comeback in Germany. Once it was
everywhere, now, I know about 10 people who play in the entire republic!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:17:02 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Traveller Spreadsheet (MT)

>>
>>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:38:40 -0500
>>From: Talisman
>>Subject: Travallar Spreadsheet
>>
>>Any Lotus 123 spread sheets out there?
>Quattro Pro, Excel, and Lotus spreadsheets should interchange for the most
>part, although there may be occasional glitches. For example Excel
>calculates some formulas a little differently than Lotus, and Excel
>doesn't like Lotus macros. I like Lotus over
>Excel, myself, haven't tried QP. BTW, I have a Megatraveller starship
>spreadsheet in Lotus that should be finished in a couple of days, anyone
>still use MT starships? It's nowhere near Andy Akin's masterpiece level,
>but maybe it will help make life a _lit
>tle_ easier for a rough draft. I'll be more than happy (wait, donning
>battle dress) to submit it for dissection, er, destruction, er, review,
>yes, that's it.
>ALO
>

There are may MT-heads out here.  My own Excel Spreadsheet got quite a good
thrashing.  New release RSN.  I'll certainly take and look at your...then
steal what I like from it for my own use if allowed to.  I'll also provide
commentary and critique (having rec'd plenty, I think I know what ot look
for).

BTW Jo Grant's MT Ship Design spreadsheet works under Lotus 1-2-3 (he does
work there after all) and *not* under Excel (Macro incompatibilities, and
some backsolving problems).  I don't know about Quattro Pro.

Jimmy Simpson is working on *his* own, too (and had a pretty good one out
there to begin with).  It sometimes seems as though there are more
spreadsheets than users for MT ship design.

Pete


Peter H. Brenton
MIT's Plasma Science and Fusion Center
(617) 253-3185
pbrenton@mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:22:48 -0500
From: Talisman <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Spreadsheet (MT)

I cannot even get the others to load.


> >Quattro Pro, Excel, and Lotus spreadsheets should interchange for the most
> >part, although there may be occasional glitches. For example Excel
> >calculates some formulas a little differently than Lotus, and Excel
> >doesn't like Lotus macros. I like Lotus over
> >Excel, myself, haven't tried QP. BTW, I have a Megatraveller starship
> >spreadsheet in Lotus that should be finished in a couple of days, anyone
> >still use MT starships? It's nowhere near Andy Akin's masterpiece level,
> >but maybe it will help make life a _lit
> >tle_ easier for a rough draft. I'll be more than happy (wait, donning
> >battle dress) to submit it for dissection, er, destruction, er, review,
> >yes, that's it.
> >ALO
> >--

My god, it's full of stars!


Http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/4467

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:49:00 -0700
From: Sanders <timmon@primenet.com>
Subject: Keith "Lost Supplements" Collection

LOST SUPPLEMENTS

After alot of feedback from various TML members and approval from Marc,
I've decided to release (re-release in the case of LOM) all five of the J.
Andrew Keith manuscripts by Christmas in what I hope most will consider a
professional format. 

The three larger supplements - "Letter of Marque," "Scams," and "Faldor"
(all originally intended as boxed modules) will be released as large
adventure type supplements, roughly the size/shape/format as say DGP's
"Flaming Eye". 

The two smaller supplements, "Planetfall Starport" and "Artic Environment"
will be released in their originally intended LLB (Little Balck Book)
format, like "Duneraiders" for example.

All five J. Andrew Keith supplements will be autographed by Andrew as well
as being fully 'gone over' (typeset, proofread, etc.), and (drumroll
please) fully *illustrated* with both 'old' and 'new' (i.e. previously
unpublished) artwork by William H. Keith. All five supplements (staying
true to the chosen format) will also be folded and stapled with cardstock
covers featuring Bill Keith artwork as well.

OVERVIEW

Below is a simple description of each supplement:

"Letter of Marque" -  First in the "Rogues in Space" series. Set in
Reaver's Deep sector on the fringes of the Imperium, it details many/most
aspects of playing/running pirates in the Traveller universe.

"Scams" - Second in the "Rogues in Space" series (or, as Andrew wrote on
the manila folder this handwritten manuscript arrived in - "Pigs in
Space"). Also set in Reaver's Deep sector, it fully details playing/running
gangsters in the Traveller universe. 

"Faldor - World of Adventure" - Companion module to both "Tarsus" and
"Beltstrike." Set in the District 268 sub-sector of the Spinward Marches,
this supplement fully details a 'lost colony' world originally settled by
the Darrians. Features several adventures, and throws additional light on
the Darrian, Sword Worlders, Zhodani, and Imperial intelligence services.

"Starport Planetfall" - Companion supplement to "Startown." Described by
Andrew as "An encounter booklet for Traveller," it details many aspects of
starports and the individuals to be encountered there, as well as
priviously untouched aspects of making planetfall.

"Artic Environment" - Last in the Keith's "Extreme Environment" series.
What's to say - this supplement explores in-depth the aspects of surviving
on Iceworlds ("Tran-ky-ky" anyone?).

EXTRAS

I am working on several 'extras' to include with the supplements. They are:

"Imperial Calendar" - Will feature the 'best' of Bill Keith's Traveller
artwork, and will be autographed by Bill. (Only available when purchasing
the entire set.)

"Reaver's Deep" - Sector supplement featuring: Sector and sub-sector maps
with matching UWP's. I am also thinking of including the library data for
this sector, but am not sure yet.

2 Cluebooks - LLB versions of the original loose-leaf and stapled clue
books for both MegaTraveller I & II computer games.

And lastly, the results/winners of the NPC/Starship contest (HINT - I could
use more than two submissions :). Not sure what size/format this extra will
take at the moment - judging by the present results, it just might end up
being a folio.

RELEASE DATE

I've set Christmas as my deadline - orders will be shipped on or before
December 31, 1998.

PRE-ORDERS

Again, I'm financing this project 'as I go' - Marc, Andrew, Bill, and the
printer are all paid with the money gathered by your pre-orders. If you
want to pre-order now, then you can, but please understand that I won't be
shipping until the dates mentioned above.

The cut-off date for orders will be December 15, 1998.

COST

Set: $100 (US) - All five supplements plus all 'extras.' 
(This price includes both domestic and foreign Surface/Book-class postage.
For those outside the US who want their orders sent First-class mail,
please include an additional $5 dollars.)

Individually:  $20 (US) per supplement plus one 'extra' for each supplement
ordered. (This price includes both domestic and foreign Surface/Book-class
postage. For those outside the US who want their orders sent First-class
mail, please include an additional $2 dollars per book.)

PAYMENT METHOD

Domestic Orders: Payment can be either check or Money Order.

Foreign: Payment can be by either Bank Draft (in US funds), Postal Money
Order, or cash (your risk, not mine).

Make checks/money orders payable to:  PAUL SANDERS

Note: I ***can't*** accept credit card orders, so please don't ask.

ADDRESS

Send your payment to:

Paul Sanders
1316 W 2nd Avenue
Apache Junction, AZ 85220
USA

Please include the following in your orders:

***CLEARLY PRINTED*** address listing where you want your order mailed too.

If ordering individually, please clearly state which supplement(s) you are
ordering.

MISC.

If you have/run DOS/Windows, please say so in your order and I will include
a free diskette with the (by then) converted Traveller Text Adventures 
(Space I & II, and Volentine Gambit), along with AppleDOS/AppleWIN (the
freeware Apple emulator needed to run them).

If someone reading this who is also on the TNE mailing list and the
Trav-Language mailing list could please cross-post this announcement I
would appreciate it.

Ok...I think that covers it. If you've any questions and or feedback,
please contact me off the list at: timmon@primenet.com (It might take me
awhile to answer, I'm a bit swamped).

Cordially,
Paul Sanders
timmon@primenet.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:03:54 -0400
From: warmind@juno.com (james a clem)
Subject: Re: Exam Question:  Non-Traveller Item

AAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your giving me nightmares about engineering school!!

This is definitely a Splurt item!


Jim A. Clem, B.S.E.
CEO and Founder, Diasporan Industries, Inc.
www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081/
Traveller Geek Code tc+ tm !tn tt t4+ ru+() ge++ !3i jt au (+) st ls(+)
pi+ he++ merc++ dt+++
GM:  The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM


On Wed, 29 Jul 1998 20:54:49 -0600 "Eric T.  or Maryann C. Holmes"
<holmberg@thuntek.net> writes:
>All:
>
>Thought you would enjoy this.
>
>>From The University of Oklahoma, School of Chemical Engineering, a 
>Dr.
>Schlambaugh's class.(The good doctor is famous for asking final exam
>questions like, "Why do airplanes fly?")
>
>In May, 1997, the Momentum, Heat and Mass Transfer II final exam 
>question
>was, "Is hell exothermic or endothermic?  Support your answer with 
>proof!
>
>Most students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Laws or some
>variant. One student, however, wrote the following:
>
>"First we must postulate that if souls exist, they must have some 
>mass.  If
>they do, then a mole of souls also must have a mass.  So at what rate 
>are
>souls moving into hell and at what rate are they leaving hell?  I 
>think we
>can safely assume that once a soul gets to hell it does not leave, and 
>thus
>no souls are leaving.  As for souls entering hell, we must look at the
>different religions that exist in the world today.
>
>Some of the religions state that if you are not a member of their 
>religion,
>you are going to hell.  Since there are more than one of these 
>religions,
>and people can not truly belong to more than one religion, we can 
>project
>that all people, and therefore all souls, go to hell.  With the birth 
>and
>death rates what they are, we can expect the number of souls in hell 
>to
>increase exponentially.  Now, we must look at the rate of change in 
>the
>volume of hell.  Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature 
>and
>pressure in hell to remain the same, the ratio of the mass of souls 
>and
>volume of hell need to stay constant.
>
>So:
>
>A) If hell is expanding at a rate faster than the rate at which Souls 
>enter
>hell, then the temperature and the pressure will drop until hell 
>freezes over,
>
> or 
>
>B) If hell is expanding at a rate slower than the rate at which souls 
>are
>entering hell, then the temperature and pressure in hell will increase
>until all hell breaks loose.
>
>So which is it?
>
>If we accept the postulate given to me by Theresa Banyan during 
>Freshman
>year, that "...it will be a cold day in hell before I sleep with 
>you..."and
>take into account the fact that I still have NOT succeeded in having 
>sexual
>relations with her, then "A" cannot be true.
>
>Thus and therefore hell is exothermic. QED "
>
>The student, Tim Graham, got the only "A".
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Eric T. Holmes
>holmberg@thuntek.net
>6pm to Midnight Mountain Time
>505-896-8061
>

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:58:58 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Newbee2

In a message dated 7/29/98 16:16:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu writes:

<< 
 MegaTraveller	198?, aka MT
 
 Traveller, The New Era, 1985-ish (iirc), AKA TNE
 
 T4, the IG barracks publisher, 1987-88 aka T4
  >>

Have I slipped into a time-space paradox?  I thought (at least on my planet)
that MT came out in 87, TNE in 93, and T4 in 96.  Have I lost my mind?

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 16:41:47 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Galactic File Format

Michael and MJ Houghton <herveus@access.digex.net> wrote:

>The help files with Galactic include discussion of the file formats. In the
>course of writing a Perl/Tk interface to those files, I have become a bit
>familiar with the details.
>
>I'd recommend unzipping Galactic and looking in galhelp/qna/data.

Hi,

Thanks for the tip. Have you a URL for Galactic?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 16:37:26 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Terra TL consistency

shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson) wrote:

>>>   It is entirely consistent for Terra to be early TL 15 in 1000, TL 11
>>>during the Long Night, TL 12 during the RoM, and TL 10-12 during the
>>>Interstellar Wars.
>
>  Can anyone find any grounds (preferably referenced) to disagree with
>the above statement, with the proviso that the "early TL 15" need not
>require evidence (see I:E) of TL 15 naval/military production?

Gentle Sophonts and K'Kree, we are proud to announce that the 'Terra was
TL15+ during the Rule of Man' campaign will be represented by 'the king',
as he was known in the ancient Terran Language of France. Complementary
flame throwers and phosphorous grenades are available at the entrance to
the theatre....

>*  Brought to you by the 1997 ROM TL Flamewar Historical Re-enactment
>Society, with the assistance of the Traveller Socialist Conspiracy. *

You leave a society for a few months and look what it does...

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #698
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Thursday, July 30 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 699



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Nature of the Imperium
Re: active sensor ranges
Re: Imperial Justice vs Local Justice (longish)
Who Is Inferium Games?
Sector Generators.
Re: Terra TL consistency
Traveller Suite
Re: Who Is Inferium Games?
Re: Behind the Claw
Re: Imperial Justice vs Local Justice (longish)
Re: Sector Generators.
Re: Sector Generators.
IG's Demise; What I know. (long)
re: Terra TL consistency
re: Terra TL consistency
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #698
Digest frequency
Re: Keith "Lost Supplements" Collection
Assistance on Geosync Orbit Calc, Please?
Re: Digest frequency
Re: Assistance on Geosync Orbit Calc, Please?
Re: Assistance on Geosync Orbit Calc, Please?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:34:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Mixon <tlmixon@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Nature of the Imperium

- ---"Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu> wrote:

> A sticky point I always have, though, is the limits of individual 
> behavior.
> If I kill a person (not that any of our heroic PCs would ever do
such > a
> thing - except in self defense) and the local gov't thinks I should be
> prosecuted (or has already held the trial and sentanced me to death)
> can
> they appeal to the Imperial government to have me extradited back to
> the
> planet in question?  If not, then killers can roam from place to 
> place,
> leaving a trail of bodies.  If so, the not-so-fair governments can
> extradite people they don't like on trumped up charges.  There must 
> be a
> middle ground somewhere there...any ideas?

  Hmmm. How about this, Yes to extradition but the persons are tried
in an Imperial Extradition court, by an Imperial Judge. That person
can then either find the defendant innocent, and the charges will no
longer be valid in the eyes of the Imperium but the defendant might
want to avoid ever going back there, or found guilty and turned over
to the prosecuting world for punishment.

  An alternative would be that the Imperium holds an extradition
hearing in which compelling evidence must be presented to show a need
for trial. 

Terry Mixon  

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:33:59 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: active sensor ranges

David J. Golden wrote:
>
>         I'm keeping my mind open about salvage. If anybody's interested,
> BTW, I can post a layman's explanation of what went wrong, and how
> NASA hopes to salvage it, seeing as I have strong professional
> interest in this area

Sure, we can always use more rocket scientists posting!

After the rabbit that Hughes pulled out of their hat with their recent
satellite, I'll be more open minded, too. 

Gawd...I'd have loved to be at the meeting where the lunar slingshot was
first brought up. "You want to send it _WHERE_????!!!" ;-)


- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:37:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Mixon <tlmixon@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Imperial Justice vs Local Justice (longish)

- ---Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU> wrote:

> What happens when a person is murdered, and the murderer flees
> off-planet? Can the planetary gov't appeal to the Imperium for 
> extradition?
> But can a repressive gov't create trumped-up charges and extradite
> innocent people into their gov't's evil clutches?
> 
> IMTU the "middle ground" to this is Imperial Law vs Local Law.

  I like the answer you have to that question better than the one I
did. 

Terry Mixon
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:33:30 -0600
From: chet-el@juno.com (Chester L Cox)
Subject: Who Is Inferium Games?

Much as I like the two IG books I bought, I've become more and more
disturbed by reports of their business practices on this list.  As of
yet, I have no clear idea just who IG is/are/yam.  A back issue of
*Pyramid* (after years away, I picked up a couple of back issues that
mentioned the "new" Traveller) indicated IG was Marc Miller and a couple
of partners.  (I do not mention the partners because I haven't a clue as
to whether this is true or not.)  Yet Marc has mentioned here that IG has
shafted him and is a separate entity from himself.  

What's the scoop?  Are we, for legal purposes, constrained from
mentioning names?  (Do they hold anyone's children hostage?)

No, I'm not asking just out of morbid curiosity.  After years dealing
with mail-order, etc., I just want to make sure I don't end up, at some
point in time, dealing with these people.

Or are the actions and results of IG not Their fault?  Was it
Circumstances Beyond Their Control?

One thing for sure:  I'm tired of calling them Them.  Because if it
really WAS Them, then it means that Marc Miller's Traveller was published
by giant radioactive ants.

*jeep!
- --Chet

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:59:38 -0500
From: Talisman <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Sector Generators.

Ok, I have given up on my quest and have set out to write one.  Don't know
how long it will take me to do, but it will be a Qbasic program written to
allow you 'paint' the densities for the sector as well as the government
for the sector.  I intend for it to do deatailed dydtem generation and was
wondering if there was an interest in such on this list.

- --
My god, it's full of stars!


Http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/4467

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:03:43 -0500
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Terra TL consistency

Bruce Alan Macintosh <bmac@astro.ucla.edu> wrote:

> No Solomani world in the Solomani Rim is TL 15 in 1110 (ref: the original
> Solomani Rim supplement) (I think there was one in Grand Survey that was.)
> This implies that either (a) the Solomani forgot to make notes when 
> evacuating Terra and hence couldn't bring any of their other worlds to 
> TL15 even in a hundred years, or (b) Terra - and the whole confederation - 
> was only TL14 in 1000. (Do the Solomani even *have* any TL14 units in I:E,
> or are they almost all TL13?) 

Yes.  In fact, as I recall an argument can be made that the Solomani have
a minor technological advantage over the invaders.  I think that most of
the continental army formations were tech-14 for certain.  However, other
sources (like _Azhanti High Lightning_) suggest that the Imperium in
general *did* have a technological advantage over the Confederation.

The other possible implication is that the Imperium ripped the industrial
heart out of the Solomani Confederation.  The Rim is the most densely 
populated sector we've seen in known space, and it was the core of the
Confederation, but the Imperium occupies most of it now.  As an aside,
I'll note that the Vegan Autonomous District is an incredibly dense knot
of high-tech worlds; the average tech level per capita nears 15!  (In
the Imperium, 12 or so is closer to normal.)

It may be that there's more tech-15 worlds in Aldebaran sector, closer 
to the relocated Solomani capital, and back a bit from the cease-fire
line.  Another possibility is that they're doing something like the
TNE Regency of Deneb -- putting resources into building rimward worlds
to tech-14 rather than bringing key worlds to tech-15 (if you think 
this is a tradeoff that they can decide to make).

  -- Steve Bonneville

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:09:49 PDT
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Traveller Suite

Greetings,

I've drawn up some world maps using the subject trav suite.  I seem to 
be having a problem printing them out.  I this a feature or did I miss 
something that I need to be able to print?  Any suggestions would be 
appreciated.

Cheers

The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:30:08 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Who Is Inferium Games?

At 09:33 AM 7/30/98 -0600, you wrote:

>What's the scoop?  Are we, for legal purposes, constrained from
>mentioning names?  (Do they hold anyone's children hostage?)
>
>No, I'm not asking just out of morbid curiosity.  After years dealing
>with mail-order, etc., I just want to make sure I don't end up, at some
>point in time, dealing with these people.

Imperium Games was a division of Sweet-Pea Entertaiment.  Marc was never an
employee of either entity, IIRC.  He licensed them to produce Traveller.

>Or are the actions and results of IG not Their fault?  Was it
>Circumstances Beyond Their Control?

IG's actions can be laid directly in their laps.  They butchered peoples'
work, never paid anyone that I know of, and generally gave expensive
lessons in how *not* to run a game company.

>One thing for sure:  I'm tired of calling them Them.  Because if it
>really WAS Them, then it means that Marc Miller's Traveller was published
>by giant radioactive ants.

The ants would do a better job.
- --

Douglas Berry
dberry@hooked.net
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry
"Come to Life, Iron Chef!"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:51:26 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <reddoch_j@popmail.firn.edu>
Subject: Re: Behind the Claw

On 07/30/98 at 01:15 PM,  Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE> said:
>> Loren, SJ, you have my permission to use this text if you want. Just,
>> PLEASE, include the UPP's.

>I vote for this, too. And if it's only a supplemental pages - anyone
>alse to sign the list?

I've said I would like them included already, but they don't have to
be an actual part of the printed book to satisfy me.  The UWP's could be
a printed, photocopied, even a memoed, inclusion stuffed into the
shrinkwrap along with GT:BTC.  I'd even go for an SASE or online
location offer *if* a paragraph in the book made the offer.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:03:29 -0700
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Re: Imperial Justice vs Local Justice (longish)

IMTU, things are a bit rougher than in most, it would appear.

The Imperium does not, as a rule, involve itself in local affairs.  It
governs the planets.  There are a certain class of crimes that will bring in
Imperial investigators (piracy in high space, sedition against the Imperium,
possession of nuclear arms, high treason, crimes against the nobility,
etc...), but these are the exceptions, not the rule.  For the most part, if
it happens on dirt, it is a planetary affair.

As long as what you do does not interest the Imperial nobility resident on
any given world, and that the planet government itself does not appeal to
the Imperium for assistance, you are pretty much scott free if you can get
off-world.  It should be noted that (IMTU) while the primary starport of a
planet has extra-territorial status, the auxilliary starports do not.  And
if the primary port happens to be the highport, and you are ported at the
downport , you could have a great deal of trouble getting off-world!

Once you are off-world, your primary worry is that the planetary government
will think highly enough of you to post a bounty.  While most bounties are
not significant enough to warrent immediate attention, if enough bounties
get placed against you it may become cost effective enough for someone to
try and take you.  Most bounties are actually paid to starport officials
("welcome to dirt, may I see your ID please?"), but there is enough credit
out there for a bounty hunter to make a comfortable living.

Generally, a bounty hunter needs only get the fugitive to the starport to
make his claim.  Most planets have local agreements that will allow the
transshipment of fugitives (low passage, of course), once their identities
have been verified.  Payment, of course, does not occur until after
verification.  Bounty hunters are licensed through the Imperium, and abuse
of their position will attract Imperial notice very quickly.

Since every dealing with the Imperium requires some exchange, either of
favors or something more tangible, most planetary governments choose not to
involve the Imperial beauracracy in the location and retrieval of minor
criminals.  However, on occaision there will be a truely notable act that
demands assistance (the use of a plasma gun in a shopping mall leaps to
mind - in the player's defense, there were extenuating circumstances that
never came fully to light...;-) from Imperial resources.

First, a bit a background.  IMTU - the Imperium is not necessarily liked by
each planet, but it must be tolerated.  Each planet has a 'Imperial House',
a building where Imperial affairs are located.  While the Imperial Nobility
cannot directly interfere with a planetary government (unless invited to do
so...), there is a certain amount of activity with is Imperial related that
planetary officials have little control over.

Execution of an Imperial warrant (small 'w') is one of these activities.  If
someone becomes a person of interest in an Imperial investigation, a warrant
shall be issued by the ranking noble in the area, and filed with the local
government with 72 hours of it's execution (note - I did not say 72 hours
_before_ it's execution.)  The local government may, upon review, protest
the warrant up to the level of the System Count (who has the final authority
in this area).

Fundementally, there are three branches of the Imperial government that may
be involved: Justice (IMOJ), Security (IBIS/IRIS), or the Military.  What
happens to you largely depends on which branch catches you.

The IMOJ is the way the system is *supposed* to work.  They will make every
attempt to verify the charges, deliver you intact to face justice and ensure
that you have at least an opportunity to defend yourself in accordance with
planetary law.  On the other hand, if you are guilty of Imperial crimes,
they will try you and send you to a *really* unpleasant Imperial Prison
Planet.  Unfortunately, the IMOJ is not usually involved before you are
captured, but is involved assuming you survive the capture process.

Security is the way that no one really wants to look at closely.  If you are
picked up by Imperial Security, chances are you will either be released (no
Imperial interests), recruited, or disappear.  Close friends and associates
may join you.

The military is normally the Imperial arm associated with the capture.  For
fugitives identified by starport officials, the Imperial Army or Marines
will be called in for the capture (usually security forces).  Otherwise, it
is generally the Navy that locates the wanderers.  In any case, assuming
that the fugitive survives the capture process, they will generally be
turned over to IMOJ.  Rarely, Security (or worse, Intelligence) becomes
involved before the transfer is complete.


E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller
IMTU tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls
The early bird gets the worm, BUT
   the second mouse gets the cheese!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:53:01 -0700
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Sector Generators.

Talisman wrote:
> 
> Ok, I have given up on my quest and have set out to write one.  Don't know
> how long it will take me to do, but it will be a Qbasic program written to
> allow you 'paint' the densities for the sector as well as the government
> for the sector.  I intend for it to do deatailed dydtem generation and was
> wondering if there was an interest in such on this list.
> 
> --
> My god, it's full of stars!
> 
> Http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/4467

I'm not sure about others, but I have done some work in Qbasic on the
above. Perhaps we (you and I) could swap files or if you haven't started
yet, you could use my files as a starting point and flesh them out. Let
me know what you think.

Jim Cooper

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:12:37 -0500
From: Talisman <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Sector Generators.

send  away.

Jim Cooper wrote:

> Talisman wrote:
> >
> > Ok, I have given up on my quest and have set out to write one.  Don't know
> > how long it will take me to do, but it will be a Qbasic program written to
> > allow you 'paint' the densities for the sector as well as the government
> > for the sector.  I intend for it to do deatailed dydtem generation and was
> > wondering if there was an interest in such on this list.
> >
> > --
> > My god, it's full of stars!
> >
> > Http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/4467
>
> I'm not sure about others, but I have done some work in Qbasic on the
> above. Perhaps we (you and I) could swap files or if you haven't started
> yet, you could use my files as a starting point and flesh them out. Let
> me know what you think.
>
> Jim Cooper



- --
My god, it's full of stars!


Http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/4467

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:47:54 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: IG's Demise; What I know. (long)

Enough people have emailed me (in the two hours since I sent out the offer)
that I am replying on list rather than off, as I had said I would.

The following contains some factual information and some which is opinion.
The factual info is true to the best of my knowledge, but is based on what
I was told, and I may have been deceived at times.  Please bear this in
mind.

I am/was a stockholder in Imperium Games and, I think, had a certain
perspective plus access to some knowledge that others did not (at times
though I was left "out of the loop" and others knew more than I).

Most of this is history that has appeared here.  Apologies for reiterating
this data, but there are many who haven't heard it.

IG was originally founded by Ken Whitman (& co., but with Ken in charge), a
man with a good deal of gaming experience, and a lousy business sense.  Ken
also had a bad sense of what was "acceptable" to sacrifice in favor of
getting products out the door.  Several early products suffered greatly
from this (esp. Starships).  I can attest to his good intentions for
Traveller, and his early enthusiasm.  He sold me on IG (I was, of course,
already sold on Traveller), but he occasionally misinterpreted our
communications, a tendancy which, in other contexts, was probably not
exactly good for business.

Ken was forced out of IG by Sweetpea Entertainment, the primary stockholder
who had that right, I believe, as the majority stockholder.  The 'plan' at
the time was that Ken's new company would provide (much of) the material
for Traveller, and that IG (now working from Sweetpea's office) would
publish it and handle the business end of things.

Note that, although Sweetpea and IG's history was inextricably linked from
that time on, the two are completely seperate companies, and Sweetpea was
never "the publisher of Traveller".

Sweetpea Entertainment (under Courtney Soloman), which holds the movie
rights to both Traveller (I think still) and D&D (which will have a movie
out soon) had good business sense, but lousy gaming sense and no talent for
editing whatsoever.  They are a movie making company, not a publisher or
even a game design shop, so, while they actually collected money from the
distributors (something Ken had neglected) they failed to pay much
attention to the product line.  I think they were passing products from the
contracted writers (some of whom were never paid) straight to the printer
with little or no editing, and, sometimes, improper cutting.  There was
also an implication of some improper bookkeeping on Ken Whitman's part at
the time of the takeover, which I honestly believe was either probably
simple carelessness on his part, or something I was told so I was "against"
Ken.  He simply was not an administrator.

In either case, my own original view was that the company would not be
making money for a year or more, until the product had a chance to catch on
with new audiences.  None of the company's management seemed to take this
view, and expected to have sales revenues coming in the door much more
quickly.

At some point they hired an editor (I'm blocking on the guy's name) and
products started to improve (Gateway, Nobles, et al I think).  But it was
too late.  Sweetpea is in the business of making money, not making games.
Although it is possible to do both (GDW did for a long time), Sweetpea was
ready to stop throwing good money after bad at this point, and shut down
the operation.  That IG's license to publish would need to be renewed was
probably a hard deadline for closing shop.  In the shutting down, IG
probably decided that they might as well treat their creditors as their
debtors were treating them, and they didn't pay a lot of people; writers,
Marc Miller, et al.

My understanding is that at that point, not only was IG in the red, but the
company had a big loan out from Sweetpea already, and that company was not
willing to loan any more to pay writers.  It may have been at this point
that an offer was made to writers to pay something like 50 cents per dollar
owed them.  Later, inventory was offered as s substitute for payment.

In general, the Staff of IG (The central office, that is) before Solomon
and Sweetpea's takeover was sloppy and slapdash, but had good ideas and
knowledge.  Afterwards the staff was more efficient, but clueless (in terms
of Traveller) and distracted (they were in themiddle of a major project -
The D&D Movie - and only administered IG as there was staff available to do
so).  Anne Flagella of Sweetpea/IG deserves credit for dealing with irate
gamers in a polite manner.

To soften this criticism, without new buyers the game can't make enough
money to really support a full time staff (even of one) and pay writers,
publishing and printing costs, shipping, and deal with all the deadbeat
distributors (who, I have been told, deserve much of the blame for the
decline of RPGs in general for their cutthroat practices).  The market that
was buying was not much bigger than the "legacy market".  Traveller needed
more time and publicity to be found by new gamers.

When I invested in Traveller I estimated the chances of huge success to be
about 1 in 10.  About what most start-up companies have for investment
purposes.  I still think that was a correct measure, only now its with
benefit of hindsight, and it turns out IG was on the wrong side of those
odds.

Remember that despite their problems, IG put out as many products (more?)
in two years as GDW did in the entire Megatraveller line in twice that
time.  The quality of the products was very low at times, not in terms of
content, usually, but in editing and formatting.  Other products, however,
were excellent, like Psionic Institutes or Pocket Empires.  Of course, most
of those supplements were written by people who are reading this, and they
should be proud of their work.

There, that will either set the record straight or muddy the waters for all
time.

Pete


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:58:32 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: re: Terra TL consistency

>From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
...
>was only TL14 in 1000. (Do the Solomani even *have* any TL14 units in I:E,
>or are they almost all TL13?) 

  The regulars go up to TL 14, while the Solomani (Terran indig)
_guerrillas_ are TL 13; Solomani colonial troops go lower, IIRC.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:58:38 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: re: Terra TL consistency

>From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
...
>Gentle Sophonts and K'Kree, 

  That sounds like a slur, no matter how much they might appreciate it.

>>*  Brought to you by the 1997 ROM TL Flamewar Historical Re-enactment
>>Society, with the assistance of the Traveller Socialist Conspiracy. *
>
>You leave a society for a few months and look what it does...

  We took a vote on this issue! Luckily, quorum is one...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:02:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Macpherson <john35@wharton.upenn.edu>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #698

trisen@postmaster.co.uk wrote:
> I am trying to build an economic model for a TL12/13 balkanised
> world based on the "Colonial Economics" chapter of World Tamer's
> Handbook (TNE) and have run into a stumbling block.

	Having some experience with WTH from when I was trying to detail
the RC with it, I can tell you that it's not very good for that sort of
thing.  What I found was that with only moderate population and TL (like 6
for both) the production totally exploded.  Everyone had many times the
expected wealth for their TL, many times the max food on the table, and
there was still a surplus.  I think the *idea* of WTH is great, but it is
too detailed for an entire world and the values on the tables leave
low-tech societies starving and hi-tech ones drowning in surplus
production.  Pocket Empires for T4 doesn't have this problem, but there
are enough other things about it that are nonsensical I refused to buy it. 
	I realize this doesn't answer your question, but I'm suggesting 
that you have only _begun_ to find the problems with WTH.

- -JM

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 19:57:33 +0100
From: "Paul James" <paul@turing.tcp.co.uk>
Subject: Digest frequency

A quick question about the digest versions of the list -how often is it sent
out? sometimes it seems to be quite quickly, other times of the day it's
only rarely.

Paul

(hope this made sense to someone)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 21:06:33 +0200
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Keith "Lost Supplements" Collection

> LOST SUPPLEMENTS

> The three larger supplements - "Letter of Marque," "Scams," and "Faldor"
> (all originally intended as boxed modules) will be released as large
> adventure type supplements, roughly the size/shape/format as say DGP's
> "Flaming Eye". 
> 
> The two smaller supplements, "Planetfall Starport" and "Artic
Environment"
> will be released in their originally intended LLB (Little Balck Book)
> format, like "Duneraiders" for example.
> 
> Individually:  $20 (US) per supplement plus one 'extra' for each
supplement
> ordered. (This price includes both domestic and foreign
Surface/Book-class
> postage. For those outside the US who want their orders sent First-class
> mail, please include an additional $2 dollars per book.)
How come the lBB size books cost the same as the Flaming Eye sized ones??
Isn´t the printing cost reduced due to the smaller size?
> MISC.
> 
> If you have/run DOS/Windows, please say so in your order and I will
include
> a free diskette with the (by then) converted Traveller Text Adventures 
> (Space I & II, and Volentine Gambit), along with AppleDOS/AppleWIN (the
> freeware Apple emulator needed to run them).

Any chance of these being posted on a web-page?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:25:18 -0400
From: Michael Kent <mkent@atlantic.net>
Subject: Assistance on Geosync Orbit Calc, Please?

I'm working on the final details of my SOpM spreadsheet.  One of the
points I left 'till last was a way of calculating the distance from a
world's surface to its geosync orbit.  SOpM give the following formula:
	O = 5078 x (m x p^2)^.33 - (D/2)
where:
	O = geosync orbit distance in km
	p = rotational period of the world in hours
	m = mass of world in earths
	D = diameter of world in km

Can anyone help me to generate a more useful formula for my speadsheet,
even a rough or approximate one, that uses only the data found in the
world's UWP?  I will admit that I haven't researched this much yet. 
Time to crack open World Builder's Handbook!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:29:31 -0400
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@tansoft.com>
Subject: Re: Digest frequency

At 07:57 PM 7/30/98 +0100, you wrote:
>A quick question about the digest versions of the list -how often is it sent
>out? sometimes it seems to be quite quickly, other times of the day it's
>only rarely.

It busts once per day or 30K which ever comes first.  However, I don't
think it works as advertised.  I think its bursts once per day and breaks
into 30K digests.

However, on a more accurate answer:  The digest frequency is based on
posting frequency.  If the list is busy, they will post more frequently
than if its slow.

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:36:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Assistance on Geosync Orbit Calc, Please?

Michael Kent writes:
> I'm working on the final details of my SOpM spreadsheet.  One of the
> points I left 'till last was a way of calculating the distance from a
> world's surface to its geosync orbit.  SOpM give the following formula:
>      O = 5078 x (m x p^2)^.33 - (D/2)
> where:
>      O = geosync orbit distance in km
>      p = rotational period of the world in hours
>      m = mass of world in earths
>      D = diameter of world in km
> 
> Can anyone help me to generate a more useful formula for my speadsheet,
> even a rough or approximate one, that uses only the data found in the
> world's UWP?  I will admit that I haven't researched this much yet. 
> Time to crack open World Builder's Handbook!

Can't be done, geosynch is dependent on the length of your day, which is not in
the UWP.  However, for a world of density similar to earth, this distance will
be roughly 634*size*(day length)^2/3 - size*800.  If you assume days fairly
close to 24 hours you can call it size*5000 km.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 98 19:42:28 +0000
From: goldendj@pcisys.net
Subject: Re: Assistance on Geosync Orbit Calc, Please?

> I'm working on the final details of my SOpM spreadsheet.  One of the
> points I left 'till last was a way of calculating the distance from a
> world's surface to its geosync orbit.  SOpM give the following formula:


> Can anyone help me to generate a more useful formula for my speadsheet,
> even a rough or approximate one, that uses only the data found in the
> world's UWP?  I will admit that I haven't researched this much yet. 

   Unfortunately, that's not possible--by its very definition, geosynchronous
orbit 
REQUIRES the planetary rotation period. Everything else you need can come 
from the UWP, with the right assumption. All you really need is the planetary
mass, which you can fudge assuming the planet's density is equal to Earth's.
But you still have to come up with a rotational
period.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #699
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