			    TRAVELLER Digest 212

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) GDW and the RC	by pete.burke@compudata.com (PETE BURKE)
  2) Traveller novel	by Hugh Foster <100326.446@compuserve.com>
  3) Re: TRAVELLER digest 211	by erich@bush.cs.tamu.edu (Erich Schneider)
  4) Re: TRAVELLER digest 210	by aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
  5) Re: TRAVELLER digest 211	by Alvin Plummer <alvin.plummer@sheridanc.on.ca>
  6) Re: Armour value of WHAT ?	by bonn0015@flipper.itlabs.umn.edu (STEVEN M BONNEVILLE)
  7) Re:  TRAVELLER Digest 210	by "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@smtpwpo.dayt.tasc.com>
  8) _Death_of_Wisdom_ Comments	by jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (JEFF ZEITLIN)
  9) Imperial Army	by dberry@np1.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Mar 95 11:00:00 -0400
From: pete.burke@compudata.com (PETE BURKE)
To: TRAVELLER@MPGN.COM
Subject: GDW and the RC
Message-ID: <8A4C294.01F40290AC.uuout@compudata.com>

I have a one other question:

Does GDW plan on developing the worlds in the RC? I think I have most 
of the current books out, and I don't remember seeing any world maps of 
any of the member worlds of the RC. I'd really like to create some 
adventures within the RC and submit them to Challenge. I don't want to 
waste my time if GDW is planning on fleshing out the worlds any more 
than they already have.

Thanks
Pete Burke
 * RM 1.3 01608 * RoboMail -- The ultimate QWK compatible message manager.

------------------------------

Date: 03 Mar 95 14:03:42 EST
From: Hugh Foster <100326.446@compuserve.com>
To: <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Traveller novel
Message-ID: <950303190342_100326.446_BHG23-1@CompuServe.COM>

>>Six," and a courageous Hiver technical advisor, "Scissor." <<

Er, what ? A courageous Hiver ? As far as I remember, there 
ain't no such beastie... 



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Mar 95 13:48:04 CST
From: erich@bush.cs.tamu.edu (Erich Schneider)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Cc: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 211
Message-ID: <9503031948.AA18872@ bush.cs.tamu.edu>

Michael Bailey writes, re the Solomani:

>2/  I like the point made that the idea of a monolithic
>Solomani state was a myth perpetuated by both sides
>(for their own reasons).  The reality was probably
>more like Germany before Bismark:  a rather loose 
>confederation of a large number of small states, 
>with some vague higher ideal of 'Solomani supremacy'
>holding them together, but at each other's throats
>most of the time.  I wonder if the Confederation
>would have ever found it's 'Bismark'?

This calls to mind a phrase I have heard attributed to Goethe, about
the Germans:

"As individuals, how grand; as a people, how wretched."

Perhaps this applies to the Solomani as well ... and can be reversed
to describe the Vilani.

-- 
Erich Schneider  erich@bush.cs.tamu.edu  http://bush.cs.tamu.edu/~erich

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Mar 95 19:50 GMT
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Cc: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 210
Message-ID: <memo.823585@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <199503022202.RAA17267@Ambassador.MPGN.COM>


  > From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@smtpwpo.dayt.tasc.com> To:
  > Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 209 
  >  
  > Logistically speaking, the Solomani had less of a bad time of it thanks
  > to the integration of their navy.  Their Army, however, wasn't
  > particularly well integrated (I'm not even sure they standardized
  > the calibre of their weapons, although I would hope they did).  
  
One feature of Solomani weapons in my universe is that they use the same
ammo as Imperial ones, but the magazines are designed so that Imperial mags
fit into Solomani guns but not vice versa.

  > From: CyHiggin@aol.com 
  > Subject: Solomani Discussion... 
  >  
  > From: Alvin Plummer 
  >  
  > > [Does anyone here know why the Solomani didn't conquer much mopre
  > > than 'border regions'?  Apparently, GDW consider's them to be
  > > military incompetents - after all, due to tech level's and
  > > population alone, they should have never lost the Solomani Rim in
  > > the Rim War.] 
  >  
  > 1. They didn't lose the Solomani Rim War... they lost Terra, which
  > would have been like the Union losing Washington D.C. in the Civil
  > War -- a devastating blow to morale to lose the Capital, but doesn't
  > imply a very deep penetration of the borders...  As it was, the
  > Solomani fleets broke the back of the Imperial Navy; that's why they
  > STOPPED at Terra. 

Yes, this is the way I see it. Incidentally, IIRC the Solomani never
acknowledged that the War had ended - the last 115 years were just a long
cease-fire.


---
Andrew Boulton

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Mar 1995 16:31:48 -0500 (EST)
From: Alvin Plummer <alvin.plummer@sheridanc.on.ca>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Cc: xboat@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 211
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91.950303161311.2044B-100000@hubble.sheridanc.on.ca>

On Fri, 3 Mar 1995 traveller@MPGN.COM wrote:

From: pd82495@wapol.gov.au (Michael Bailey)

<snip>
> I'll add a couple thoughts of my own...feel free to turn
> the flamethrower on to them if you disagree:
<snip>

> 3/  The GDW material I've read hints at a growing 
>     r'approachment between the Confederation and the 
>     Imperium from the last half of the 11th Century.

If you mean CT's _Solomani Rim_, you're right on the ball.  For those of 
you who don't have a copy (like me two weeks ago), the two government's 
had rather peaseful and non-provocative relations with each other, 
although they still weren't exactly the best of friends.  The Solomani 
had turned their attention to colonizing the rimward border, and would 
give only verbal support (and maybe weak verbal support, too!) to 
Solomani movement's in ex-Solomani, Imperial space.  Probably the only 
real sore point was Terra itself.

>     It would have been interesting to see what would
>     have happened if Strephon wasn't assassinated 
>     and Dulinor's planned 'democratic reforms' went
>     ahead.  The Solomani tend (?) to be a fairly 
>     egalitarian lot, with a disliking of nobility and 
>     heriditary rank.

Alternate history #5 ! (Along with Emperor Varian, a quick Dulilour coup, 
the assassination of Lucan, and  - most realistic - a fractured, 
burned-out shell of human space, dominated by the Solomani and Lucan II.)

If Dulinor had pulled it off, he still would have had to contend with 
`Solomani racism' and the Solomani loathing of big government.  I doubt 
if relations would have improved much, although he may have managed to 
make a deal over Terra.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alvin Plummer
"Preserve what we created, Norris, and remember what we stood for."
                               - Strephon, 179-1126

Reply to: alvin.plummer@SHERIDANC.ON.CA

------------------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 16:31:58 -0600
From: bonn0015@flipper.itlabs.umn.edu (STEVEN M BONNEVILLE)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Armour value of WHAT ?
Message-ID: <199503032231.QAA08414@diatom.itlabs.umn.edu>


"Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@smtpwpo.dayt.tasc.com> wrote:

>Hugh Foster says:
>
>>>> Sir, there are quite a number of ship's our there with  armour of
>>1700, last time I heard! <<
>>
>>There you are, you see. The system which creates designs  like this is
>>not compatible with previous designs. Fixing  rules is OK. This is a
>>completely different game!
>
>   I'm not convinced that he's taking about a valid design.  I'd like to
>see the stats for one of these "interstellar tanks" posted, in particular
>the hull design calculations.  After all, under the old system it was
>possible to design 15,000 ton jump-6, maneuver-6 starship
>with a spinal mount meson gun if certain rules were ignored.

Legality of the armor rating depends on how big the ship is.  In TNE,
armor factor is based on armor thickness in metric units.  It's harder
to put an 18 cm thick layer of bonded superdense on a 50 cm sphere
than it is to put the layer on a 500 m sphere!  The 500 m sphere needs
more armor in total, but the armor takes a smaller proportion of the
space available in the sphere at the same thickness.  And the same
thickness of armor now gives the same degree of protection, no matter
what hull it is installed in. 

My 'FI' Azhanti conversion has a TNE armor rating of over 500, which
takes about the same percentage of the ship for armor as would be seen
in the typical ship designs for a smaller ship; the smaller ships just
carry proportionally *thinner* armor.  So a rating of 2000 in TNE for
a battleship-sized craft is not unreasonable in TNE, and would be under
three-quarters of a meter of bonded-superdense covering the hull.  It
is unreasonable for a 400 ton SDB.

If I remember right, this was around a percent or two of internal volume,
but the gain over CT/MT is offset by the equipment requirements and the
increased crew sizes in TNE. 

I considered 500 the minimum for a strike cruiser or fleet intruder meant
for operations independently or with small fleets, because that's the
minimum in Battle Rider that will stop a turret laser.  It had refueling
capability which took a day, because anything faster was too big for the
tight design, but it needed the ability since the cruisers go places 
where they don't want to be worrying about protecting fleet tankers.

In my experience, it is possible to make ships which are reasonably close
to the look and feel of the old designs with the TNE rules.  You aren't
going to get an exact fit, and the ships will perform differently under
different rules systems and may not be quite optimum anymore without
some adjustments.  The Book 2 designed xboat wasn't compatible with Book
5, and this makes things a bit weird even now.  TNE has no repulsors at
Imperial tech-levels, and plasma barbettes need to be laser barbettes,
but it mostly works out, and the ship prices are comparable.  When you
convert, you have to decide which characteristics of the old ship you
most want to keep, and which you're willing to compromise on, depending
on the point of the ship in the first place.  A lot of the old tricks
from MT ship design to save space, like not putting life-support in 
fuel tanks, come in handy to cram everything into a conversion. 
  
  Steve Bonneville
  <bonn0015@gold.tc.umn.edu>


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Mar 1995 18:17:52 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@smtpwpo.dayt.tasc.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re:  TRAVELLER Digest 210
Message-ID: <sf575d01.008@smtpwpo.dayt.tasc.com>

"count" says:

>TNE is a totally new game, built from the ground up using T2000 (not 
>Arnie), and Dark Conspiracy (all TM/c GDW).  Hence it is a distinct 
>possibility that those who enjoyed CT and/or MT will not enjoy TNE. 
> If  however you enjoyed T2000 2nd _AND_ CT/MT then you would
> very possibly  love TNE!!  However I'm one of the former.  I enjoyed CT
> and to a lesser  degree MT, but not Tw2000 etc.  Hence I'm
> disappointed to say that I  think GDW and I have gone our separate
> ways to a significant degree.

   TNE is Traveller, simply a further refinement of the game.  There is
no reason why anyone who enjoyed playing Traveller in 1985, shouldn't
enjoy playing it in 1995, except they might find the way the storyline
advanced a bit disagreeable (which is why the Regency exists).
 I think this is where your problem with TNE lies.  Some people in my little
gaming group were none too happy about the Rebellion storyline, and
even less happy about the way it ended.  Somehow I have to believe
that if the rules changes had been implemented and Strephon were still
on the throne (in year say, 1125), you'd be quite happy with TNE.

Cynthia says:

>1. They didn't lose the Solomani Rim War... they lost Terra, which would
>have been like the Union losing Washington D.C. in the Civil War -- a 
>devastating blow to morale to lose the Capital, but doesn't imply a very
>deep penetration of the borders...  As it was, the Solomani fleets broke
>the back of the Imperial Navy; that's why they STOPPED at Terra.

   The First Solomani Rim War ended in a marginal Imperial victory.  While
they did succeed in reclaiming a portion of the worlds they stood to lose
through Solomani succession, and captured the Confederation's
homeworld (Terra),  they failed to crush the rebellion completely.  This
left the Imperium in a position where they had to fortify a border that
had previously been a quiet region.  One wonders how the Rebellion
would have played out differently had all those Imperial assets fighting
the Solomani were instead fighting one of other factions.

   It was my understanding that what drained the Imperium during
Rim War I was the assault on Terra.  That was accomplished primarily by
Imperial Marine and Army forces--the Navy played a much smaller role.
Also, Terra was at the center of the Solomani Confederation prior to
Rim War I.  If capturing Terra isn't deep penetration, what is?

>2. A closer examination of the Solomani Confederation reveals that it
>has all the unity of the U.S. under the 1781 Articles of Confederation; it
>is almost fatally divisive.  The supposedly monolithic nature of the
>Confederation under the unifying control of the Solomani Party zampolits
>is almost certainly a fiction; an artifact of Imperial propaganda or Party
>propaganda, or both. 

   The Solomani Confederation had the potential to be one of the most
repressive government in the history of mankind, and there were
certainly individuals within SolSec, the Party, and the military who
wanted to bring about authoritarian rule.  The central governmental
structure, however, was sufficiently weak that bastions of "liberalism"
could exist on various worlds.  This enabled dissidents to speak
against the central government freely without fear of waking up dead
or imprisoned.  The "liberal haven" worlds paid lip service to the
Solomani Cause, while at the same time granting local citizenship to
non-Solomani humans, genetically manipulated sentients of Terran
origins (dolphins, Vargrs, etc.), even sentients of non-Terran origin
(Aslan, etc.).

>Using the example of WWII, all the Solomani need to throw a monkey
>wrench into the works is a Montgomery, someone who is  allowed to
>run operations beyond his ability for reasons of national  prestige and
>amity among allies.  Anyone remember Market Garden?  (aka "A Bridge
>Too Far").

   Market-Garden failed because the time tables for its execution were
too tight, and the scheme of operation and maneuver wasn't flexible
enough.  It was a giant crap shoot, that, had it worked, would have
shortened the war by several months.  Patton's alternative was to have
his forces drive into the Saar industrial region.  Patton's plan was less
risky, but also would have done less to bring the war to a faster
conclusion.  We can see in hindsight that Monty's plan was not the one
to go with, but when Eisenhower approved it, he did not have the
benefit of hindsight.

   Remember as well that the Germans were launching rocket assaults
on England by this time (from sites in Holland and coastal Germany as
I recall)--and Churchill among others feared that the V-1s and V-2s might
succeed where the Luftwaffe didn't.  This caused the Brits  to pressure
Ike to approve Market-Garden (which could have knocked out the
launch sites had it worked) instead of Patton's offensive.

  [Interesting historical "what if"...what if Patton had been put in charge
of Market-Garden?]

   The Solomani plan could have very well resembled Market-Garden,
in that it was full of rigid  timetables and very specific schemes of
maneuver.  All it would have taken was a few foul-ups here and there
to blow the whole operation out of the water.  We know that the Battle
of Dingir in 1117 was one such foul-up (the Solomani failed to secure
the system)--there were probably others, as I indicated in my last post.

Pete Burke says:

>I have some questions about TNE:
>
>1) Challenge 76 had an errata list to beef up the energy weapons. Is 
>there a central repository of errata sheets for TNE products? I think I 
>have three different ones for TNE and I want to get them right.

   The ultimate repository is located in Bloomington, IL (OK, like no
s**t Harold, what's your point).  There are a number of Internet sites that
have bits of errata, but I know of no site that claims to have it all.
Sounds like a project for someone....

>2) I know this has probably been asked before (and might be on an
>errata  sheet somewhere) but what is the correct calculation for
>figuring out  the size of a satellite of a planet? I don't have the book in
>front of  me, but I think it says (World Size - d6). This is a hold over
from
>World Builder's Handbook. I don't think a Size 9 planet can have a size 
>8 moon and be stable. In the past I have used the formula
>(World Size/2) - (d6) + 1  (round down any fractions).  This allows for
>worlds to have satellites no bigger than half of their  size.

   This sounds like a reasonable fix, though I'm wondering if we happen
to have a pseudo-expert in Physics out there in Cyberland who could
enlighten us further on this subject.  I do know that Charon, Pluto's
moon, has a diameter about 57 percent of its parent body, though it is
less dense.  It could be that we should be talking in terms of mass
instead of diameter.

3) Has Aslan society collapsed as well as the Imperium? What about the 
K'kree?  Have the K'kree disappeared from the official universe?

   It can be assumed that the Virus adapted itself to Aslan computer
circuitry pretty quickly, and that there was enough commonality
between clan computers and software so that the Virus was able
to jump from one to another until finally it had spread through out the
Hierate trailing of the Great Rift.

   This fact would not preclude the existence of Aslan pocket empires
where the old Hierate once stood.  It also opens up the possibility of
new Virus types--ones that have a more Aslan-like outlook on the
Universe (Vampire clans, anyone?).  There is also a strong likelihood
that the Aslan colonies would begin expanding back across the
Great Rift to find out what, if anything, might be left of their brethren.
This effort would be accomplished in much the same way that the
Regency is reaching back into the old Imperium.

   The K'kree?  Anybody's guess as to what happened to them, but
if the Hivers were laid low for the most part by the Virus, you can
darn well be sure that the K'kree bought it just as hard, probably
worse. 

Mark Hughes says:

>  K'kree seem to have been all but phased out of TNE.  I'm not terribly
>pleased by this; I like the K'kree (as a referee, anyway).

   The K'kree did make good vegetarian Nazis, didn't they?  : )
They will probably return at some point--not that I can speak for GDW,
but I'm sure they at least give a fair hearing to a K'kree write up,
perhaps as a series of Challenge articles.

>...I only have the main rules so far (any purchase recommend- ations,
>anyone?  I know I want FF&S, BR, and Striker II, but I've no clue which
>sourcebooks are any good...)

   As sourcebooks go, they're all pretty good.  The one I would
recommend the most would be the Coalition Equipment Guide, because 
of the nice selection of hardware it contains.

>MegaErrata

   A bit of dark humor there, huh Mark?


Harold



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Mar 95 18:41:00 -0500
From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (JEFF ZEITLIN)
To: TRAVELLER@MPGN.COM
Subject: _Death_of_Wisdom_ Comments
Message-ID: <8A4C461.0100043D2A.uuout@execnet.com>


  Let me note that I am _not_ doing a book review, nor am I
  discussing the plot.  My comments are purely on production 
  issues, and are strictly my opinions, nobody else's.

  The first thing I noticed is that the book is printed and bound 
  using heavier stock than most books of the same size and price.  
  This is good in that it makes the book more durable (I like 
  durable, I tend to read books until they fall apart, sometimes 
  beyond [good books, like Brunner's _Shockwave_Rider_, fall into 
  the latter category]).  The only disadvantage to the heavier 
  stock is that it _looks_ like you're getting more than you 
  actually are.  This is a good 350-page book; it looks like some 
  400-page novels I have.

  When I started reading the book, I noticed that it was a harder 
  book to look at.  Not to read; it is well-written - but the 
  typography and the paper color combine poorly.  The paper is just 
  a bit off _bright_ white, and the font is a humanist sans-serif 
  font - my best guess is Stone, or a close variation.  The problem 
  with most sans-serif fonts is that the non- (or minimal) 
  variation in line thickness tends to "hide" certain letters.  A 
  serif font, like Times, Garamond, et alia would have been better, 
  or perhaps a variable-thickness sans-serif font, like Optima.  
  Alternatively, brightening the page to increase the contrast 
  might have helped.  I'd opt for going the Optima or Times route; 
  bright paper can be tiring to look at.

  I also encountered some serious editing boo-boos.  There were a 
  few (really - only two or three) places where duplication of 
  sentences or nearly an entire paragraph occurred.  Disconcerting, 
  to say the least.

  Without giving anything away, I _will_ say that the story was 
  well-done.  I strongly recommend converting it to an adventure 
  format and tossing it into Challenge or a sourcebook.  I hope GDW 
  picks up that ball and runs with it.  I also hope that the two 
  sequels are due out soon.
==========================================================================
Jeff Zeitlin                                      jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com
---
 þ QMPro 1.53 þ Old age comes at a bad time in life

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Mar 95 23:08:00 EST
From: dberry@np1.com
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Imperial Army
Message-ID: <9503032308.D6747Oy@np1.com>


A recent Digest included the question:  "What is the structure of the
Imperial Army?"  Since I have spent the majority of my Traveller
"career" playing, running, and designing for the Army, I feel qualified
to give my opinion on the subject.

The Imperial Army is the Imperium's basic defense.  Each world is
responsible for raising and equipping a self-defense force.  Each
Subsector then organizes the best personnel from the individual SDFs
into the local Imperial Army.  Since the needs of, say, Jewell Subsector
are quite different than that of a Subsector in the Imperial Core, this
system allows for flexibility in training and equipment (for example,
forces in Jewell must be equipped with psionic shields due to the
Zhodani threat).

An advantage of this is a boon to local industry, as the highest tech
industrial world in the region will receive multiple contracts to equip
the Subsector Army.

At a more basic level, the Army probably uses a regimental system,
similar to that of Victorian England.  The Regiment is your home away
>from home, and you serve in the same Regiment as your father did before
you, and his father before him.

Comments?  Complaints?  Cash awards?  Enlistments?

Douglas E. Berry - dberry@np1.com
"All skill is for naught when an Angel pees in your Musket"

------------------------------

End of TRAVELLER Digest 212
***************************
