Subj: Traveller-digest V1999 #1374
Date: 11/21/99 6:36:04 PM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Sunday, November 21 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 1374
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Disabling Weapons
Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery
OT: Dogma
Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1373
Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery
Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery
Re: Dogma
Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery
Vargr (Was: Re: Weapons of mass destruction)
Traveller Planetary Assaults
Invasions (formerly Trav Nav & Gunnery)
Mass Destruction
riot control
Re: Dogma
Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 10:54:21 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley"
Subject: Re: Disabling Weapons
> From: "Alan Bradley"
> 3. Gimmick devices like the anti-electronics one that I seem to have
lost
> the reference to above only work when they are a suprise. A bit of thin
> plastic and some masking tape would adequately seal most electronic
> equipment.
Ah. What I lost was that the anti-electronics device was an EMP grenade.
I was thinking it was something like the gadget that was used against
Yugoslavia, where a seal, like above, would be sufficient to protect your
gear.
Primitive EMP hardening might be possible, if awkward. It would probably
be sufficient to reduce the effect of an EMP grenade, which could, after
all, not have too extreme an area of effect if it was to be used in a city.
So, something more than a few meters away from such a grenade could be
safe, with fairly simple shielding. Would the demonstrators have the
technicians capable of creating such shielding? Obviously it depends, but
it's very likely. They probably couldn't do it on the spot, but if this
device is do be used more than once, countermeasures are possible and
likely.
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 19:58:45 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery
From: Terry Carlino
Well, that's great. Last I noticed, within the Imperium there are no feuding
superpowers. There can be no Cold War style situation in the Third
Imperium... well, there can be, but at that point you begin to get further
and further away from the canon view of the Imperium.
>Obtrav: As long as the other major interstellar powers can use near C rocks
>or mass drivers for orbital bombardment this method of warfare will not be
>used.
Yet, strangely enough "energy" ortillery will be alright, even though the
effects can be exactly the same. There are plenty of strange rules of
warfare in the real world, so I'm not raising my eyebrows too much. So, what
you're actually saying is that these various interstellar civilizations,
each with *vastly* different views on... well, *everything* are going to all
decide to play by the same rules?
I do find that a little bit difficult to believe.
>In side the 3I it won't be used because destroying a high pop world
>would result in a general rebellion.
"Destroying a high pop world"... Geez, would people *please* stop putting
words into my mouth when they reply to my posts? I'm not talking about
destroying high pop worlds. I'm talking about dropping big rocks, not
busting planets in half.
Still, there's no reason to believe that such a scenario would result in a
general rebellion anymore than dropping a contingent of Imperial marines on
to the surface, backed up by ortillery would.
>The local Reserve and System Navy
>forces would never support it, even if the Navy Admiralty did. Quite
>possibly even nobles in other sectors might not support it (because of
>pressure from their vassals), and support of the citizenry in general.
Yet they will support dropping Imperial troops onto the surface of the world
to engage in combat with guerilla forces, where the distinction between
combatants and non-combatants will most likely be blurred, and the
distinction between civilian and war production will most certainly be
blurred?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 17:06:21
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: OT: Dogma
Go see this movie. It's wonderfully funny, and makes you think about
religion and God as seperate subjects. Alanis Morissette plays God and
pulls it off beautifully.
OBTrav: Jay and Silent Bob as NPCs (or, God forbid, PCs)
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 17:07:52
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery
At 08:06 PM 11/21/1999 -0500, you wrote:
>I'm impressed. This shows I have a LOT to learn about mounting realistic
>offensives. :) thanks for the excellant response, I'll be using your post
>as liner notes when I set-up things like that in future games.
Better yet, buy the book when it comes out!
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 12:25:19 +1000
From: dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1373
> From: Leonard Erickson
>
>
> >I think you need to look into the actual "mechanics" involved in rock
> >dropping. *Nobody* "haul[s] big rocks into orbit". It takes an unreal
> >amount of power, even by Traveller standards, to shift the orbit of a
> >"big rock" so that it'll hit a planet *months* later.
>
Moving rocks would be economical, but not militarily viable.
option 1: Move the mine to the miners. In order to reduce shipping delay of raw
materials to refineries, rich asteroids can be put into a low thrust intercept
to the location of said refineries. While they could take months or years, well
timed boosts could arrange an asteroid every other month.
option 2: Cheap transport. In a Jerry Pournelle book (Leonard will know which
one, I cant remember of hand), the miners hollowed out a rich nickel/iron
asteroid, filled it up with small amounts of VERY rich and rare alloys, as wll
as hold and silver, and blasted it to earth with an orion drive.
Darryl
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 20:37:49 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery
From: DaveShayne
>I'm sorry if I misconstrued your argument. I thought you were refering
>to the Centauri treatment of the Narn.
No real problem. It's alright.
>And can't support their own people who begin to think maybe being a part of
>the
>Imperium, "arna sa bad afta all." The peasants revolt and prety soon the
>same
>shmos who wanted the imperium off their backs are begging for a marine
>detachment for protection against their own people.
Really? So a world can't support itself without Imperial help. That's
interesting, 'cause we're not doing that bad here on Terra right now. ;)
Still, there are some worlds which require technological assistance to keep
their population alive. Of course, the Imperium wouldn't need to drop big
rocks on them to win them over.
>I supose it's posible if everybody on the planet is mortally opposed to
>imperial rule this might have to be done but I don't see any planet with a
>pop
>greater than 2 where this could posibly be the case.
Well, the large number of nationalist movements, self-determination
movements, and so on that exist and have existed in the real world seem to
be placed in opposition to your reasoning.
>who's gonna notice." In all other situations enough people will be found
who
>are willing to accept Imperial rule to keep things going on a more or less
>reasonably profitable level.
"In all other situations..." watch those generalizations, sir! ;)
Seriously, though, this is an awfully strange view of the way human beings
have been, and seem to be in the real world. Granted, this is descriptive
and not prescriptive (the problem with "human nature" is that it's
neccesarily descriptive) but even so, what happens when you're confronted
with a charismatic, nationalistic dictator, or ideology, or both?
>>1.) If you want to control a city / country / planet in a traditional
>sense,
>>somebody's got to be there. The Imperium doesn't *want* to control cities
/
>>countries / planets in the traditional sense. They simply want them to pay
>>taxes.
>
>In which case they're going to choose the least damaging way of convincing
>them to accept imperial rule that they can.
Least damaging to whom? The planet or the Imperium?
If it's the former, dropping rocks is effectively the same as dropping
ground troops. You're still going to lose civilians, and it's more than
likely that you're going to decimate industrial centers. If it's the latter,
dropping rocks is a hell of alot cheaper and less time consuming than
dropping marines in battle dress.
>Or try bribing the local leaders. If a planets power structure is left
>intact The
>local leaders may well decide that the Imperium is, "okaybyme."
Bribes only go so far. That's been tried at various points, and that
frequently fails as well. How easy would it be to bribe a Hitler, or a
Castro, exactly, or any other leader who manages to convince people, for
whatever reason, to do things that seem amazingly non-rational in
retrospect?
>>Neither does a determined populace. So, we're back at square one.
>
>I supose. But just how determined is the populace? If the Impies come
>in with a batron and a few regiments of marines, bribes in the right
places,
>and some cosmetic reforms (say renaming the taxes negative income
>enhancements or some such) would the peasants still revolt?
>In most cases I doubt it.
Just out of curiosity, how did we end up on the Marxist "peasant revolt"
line? It doesn't have to be "peasants" or "proles" who are doing the bulk of
the revolting at all. In fact, in cases like the American of French
Revolutions the peasants weren't even the real driving force behind the
rebellion.
>Yes I was being inelequent. Some other reasons countries go to war
>are: "Glorious Leaders" huge ego needs a stroke, religious disputes (These
>wars
>are among the dirtiest wars), to avoid being anexed by another country.
>(Yes it actually does take two countries to fight a war)
Actually, religious disputes, historically, have been among the least
"dirty" wars, depending on how you look at it. This may simply be an
accident of history, since the same force that allowed mankind to make
really impressive weapons also happened to marginalize those religious
institutions that would be able to make war to a great degree.
However, if you were to add up the death toll of only two of the ideological
and nationalist wars of the twentieth century (World War I and World War II)
you're gonna find that the dirtiest wars weren't fought over religion at
all.
>And no doubt many other reasons/justifications. Wars still boil down to a
>violent dispute over who gets to call the shots.
Fair enough, but you've already stated that your previous statement was open
to misinterpretation. There's no reason to belabor the point.
;)
>>It doesn't have to be genocide. Let me state again that total destruction
>>does not have to follow from rock dropping.
>
>Depends on how big the rock is.
Still, it doesn't have to follow that the use of a brutal terror weapon
means that you have to turn the surface of a planet into slag and start over
again with a new crew of colonists.
>>This would be different from the situation in what way after a land war in
>>what way precisely?
>
>In general in a land war you only shoot at things that are in your imediate
>way and/or shooting back. As opposed to the rock that's going to get
>everybody it lands on whether their fighting back or not. Killing people
>who aren't otherwise involved usually results in fence sitters joining the
>foe more often than convincing your enemy to give up.
Really? In a land war, it can be amazingly difficult for combatants to tell
who's a civilian and who's not. Of course, the blurring of distinctions
between civilian and military targets that invariably happens in modern
warfare makes this even more problematic.
>>Ah, okay. So now you're saying the mere threat of rock dropping will be
>>enough to bring a world around. The only problem is that from time to time
>a
>>world's going to say, "Hey! You're not *really* gonna whack us with
rocks!"
>>
>>Then what happens exactly... start a land war? Or follow through on the
use
>>of cheap and brutal "terror weapons"?
>
>Um yea I guess that last paragraph of mine does tend to support your thesis
>more than mine. But if you nuke say a convenient uninhabited moon that
>hapens to be nearby.... Well maybe convinced fanatics would doubt your
>willingness but nobody can doubt your capability.
Oh come on, who the hell's going to doubt the Imperium's capacity to drop
big rocks on their population centers at will? Anyone in the Imperium who
has the most rudimentary education is going to understand that it's a
painfully simple process.
Still, your "moon" scenario is just delaying the inevitable. Okay, the
Imperium does that once, and the populace folds. The Imperium does it again,
somewhere else, and the populace folds. What happens if the Imperium whacks
a moon a third time and the population says, "Nuts!"?
>>Where do things such as the firebombing of Dresden, the atomic bombing of
>>Hiroshima and (tongue planted firmly in cheek) the God smiting of Sodom
and
>>Gommorah fit into those conceptions?
>
>Dresden was more or less irellevent to the outcome of the war. In
Was it now? I know, people can tell me how there were no real industrial
centers there, blah blah blah...
Still, do you happen to have access to some information the world isn't
privvy to? Perhaps morale levels among soldiers and civilians in Germany
after the news got out? Can you say with certainty the bombing of a civilian
target - which Jens noted was where civilians were going to avoid being
incinerated - had no effect whatsoever on the war?
>Japan was already beaten in every sense except the actuall occupation by
the
>time
>the bombs were dropped. The japanese knew this and were attempting to
>negotiate surender terms at the time. The bomb merely pointed out that we
>were
>willing to kill all of them in order to get unconditional surrender.
Yes, and this message was sent in a big, atomic fireball... This further
supports my point, actually. After all, what happened to the fence sitters
who would (under your model) rise up and strike back at their foes as a
result of the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
>In both cases large occupying armies were required to control the conquered
>teritories and we wound up spending a large sum of money rebuilding their
>destroyed infrastructure. If both of the previous were not true we would
>probably
>have had another world war sometime in the sixties.
Again, you go on to support my point, since the infrastructure of both
countries was decimated by more traditional forms of warfare. ;)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 17:41:49
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery
At 07:03 PM 11/21/1999 -0600, you wrote:
>"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
>> "Bigger than one made by any pimply-faced, weak-kneed Army Rapid
>> Intercourser, By God! An' smile when you call me 'Impy'"
>>
>> - Armsman/1c Gerg Schulters, Lima Co, 1183rd Marine Regiment (Hell on the
>> Half Shell), interviewed while under a table at the 404 Club.
>
>"Only if the Marine landed head-first. The hollow-point effect, don't
>you know."
>
>- Corporal Shannash Irkirkhaamn-Noland, Alpha Co, 1199th Jump Infantry
>Regiment ("Aces and Nines"), upon hearing of Armsman/1c Schulters'
>remarks.
"Them's fighting words! An' if I could figure out where the floor is, I'd
mop it with yer head!"
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 20:48:45 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Dogma
From: Douglas E. Berry
>Go see this movie. It's wonderfully funny, and makes you think about
>religion and God as seperate subjects.
I agree. It is a fantastic movie, but I didn't come away with quite the same
moral myself.
> plays and pulls it off beautifully.
C'mon, Doug, for those who know who the first is and can recognize
her, it's such a pleasant surprise!
>OBTrav: Jay and Silent Bob as NPCs (or, God forbid, PCs)
Actually, I've had folks who are suspiciously like Jay and Silent Bob as
players... come to think of it, nearly all of my players are like the
characters from Kevin Smith films.
It's an eastern seaboard thing, I think. ;)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 21:01:22 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery
>Better yet, buy the book when it comes out!> plug>
Book? BOOK?! :)
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 02:58:03 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Vargr (Was: Re: Weapons of mass destruction)
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
> The Vargr developed jump drive, and Lair has a higher TL that the
> Zhondani.
> As I recall from AM3, the Vargr found the Zhos, not the other way
> around.
Oh. I had no idea. Being a relative newbie (2yrs), I have only got T4
and G:T material. Sad...
And no, I don't have the money to buy the reprints...
> Quite the opposite, I feel the Vargr mind set would encourage
> scientific development. Why? Charisma. Vargr are intelligent
> creatures, and the Vargr who developed the Theory of Relativity would
> be the Alpha of Vargr physicists.
Why does this way of thinking remind of the scientists of another race,
one I know far better from real life?
> It's tempting to see the Vargr as a wild howling pack of dogs.
Certainly. That's the way I've run them. :-)
> Indeed, that the impression the give much of the time. But to ignore
> that they inhabit an area of space equal if not larger than the
> Imperium and have inhabited that area since before the First Imperium
> came along does them a disservice.
From the G:T module, I got the impression that Vargr space was much
smaller. I hate not having access to canon material like this piece of
information!
Anyway, thanks a lot for enlightening me. I will start a Traveller
campaign with a new group during spring or so. I will change my view of
the Vargr for that campaign.
Is there perhaps a web source of basic information about the different
races, perhaps with a general timeline thrown in? Is there good (better
than in T4) examples of such material in GURPS: Traveller (the main
book, which I don't have)?
Interesting thoughts. I've played them more like a wolf pack, with a
strong leader having to show off his strength to the others.
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 21:13:01 -0500
From: "Lyle Youngblood"
Subject: Traveller Planetary Assaults
>Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 16:33:24
>From: "Douglas E. Berry"
> At the same time, Marine units begin dropping to seize high value targets
>such as the planet's starport. Other raids are launched to both distract
>and demoralize the defenders. At this point in the operation, the overall
>commander will make the final decision on where the main force will land.
If you're dropping troops to the surface to grab what is, in all
likelihood,
an already well-defended target, such as a starport or other "high value
target", why wouldn't you make that, or one of those, your main beachhead?
If you're talking "hit and get" raids, yeah, but I got the impression that
you
were talking seize and _hold_ the starport. Troops already on the ground
would make suppression of local air-defense (or their analogue) possible
as well as being able to designate/clear landing zones as well as giving
the main force, hopefully, a relatively fire-free zone to muster in.
I could be wrong, but it read to me as if you were saying that the
"initial raids" and "pathfinder landing" were two different and completely
seperate stages. It would seem to me to be better to combine them.
If nothing else, this forces the defender to decide what is a feint, what is
a raid, and what is the legitimate main force landing (re: Hitler, Normandy,
and Pas-de-Calais).
Lyle
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 18:16:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Kyle Schuant
Subject: Invasions (formerly Trav Nav & Gunnery)
> Which brings up a question for me; assuming the
> forces have control of the
> 'high ground', whats the best way of dropping your
> troops in oder to capture
> the planet? Together in armored shuttles (I think
> this is a bad idea
> myself) or like in Starship Troopers, where they
> drop individually
> 'halo-style'?
>
J-Man, each has their advantages and disadvantages.
Shuttles make targets, big and obvious, but
individuals are smaller targets, and hopefully one
blast doesn't take out a whole company. However the
old problem with paradrops is that the unit gets
broken up. If you've trained with Sgt Slaughter,
Corporal Jim-Bob and your best friend Cyril every day
for the past two years in the "Glorious Gonzo
Company", and suddenly down on the ground you're with
a bunch of bozos you don't know, in the "Confused
Klutz Company", well, you're just not going to fight
as well. In military strategy when the enmey mixes you
all up in a mass of confusion, nobody knowing who's in
charge, they call that "disruption," and it's a chief
aim of the enemy, who will happily drive armour into
your flanks to finish you off. When you do it to
yourself, it's not called "disruption", it's called "a
successful paradrop."
I'd go for the armoured cars, myself. Unless unit
cohesion ain't important to you, which I suppose it
isn't if you have trained beserker fanatics who don't
need back-up or organisation.... "I only need to know
one thing... where the bugs are... blood blood blood!"
=====
KA Schuant
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club
Melbourne
Australia
ph 0411 893 561
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 18:20:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Kyle Schuant
Subject: Mass Destruction
> Obtrav: As long as the other major interstellar
> powers can use near C rocks
> or mass drivers for orbital bombardment this method
> of warfare will not be
> used. In side the 3I it won't be used because
> destroying a high pop world
> would result in a general rebellion. The local
> Reserve and System Navy
> forces would never support it, even if the Navy
> Admiralty did. Quite
> possibly even nobles in other sectors might not
> support it (because of
> pressure from their vassals), and support of the
> citizenry in general.
Who remembers Moff Tarken in Star Wars? He was never
ordered to go and waste Alderaan.... who here thinks
that if the Death Star had survived the Emperor would
have cashiered and executed Tarken? I think he just
got carried away with his big new toy. Alderaan's
annual taxes might've paid for a whole new Death Star.
What are the possibilities for a Death Star type
weapon in Traveller? Maybe a humungous Meson Gun?
=====
KA Schuant
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club
Melbourne
Australia
ph 0411 893 561
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 18:23:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Kyle Schuant
Subject: riot control
>>IMHO, the best riot control weapon is something with
no medical side
effects,
able to be targeted effectively, and has minimal
secondary effects.
Watar canons
seem to fit the bill. Water casues no alergic
reactions, the delivery
will at
most cause abrasions and blunt trauma (on hitting the
ground or
obsticals) and
can be aimed to avoid children and elderly (who have a
higher chance of
sustainig more serious injury with the secondary
effects.>>
And, you can put something smelly in the water, plus
some fluro pink paint. That way, the rioters are
embarassed by their smell, and you can spot them
later! (If you like the post-riot arrest thing)
=====
KA Schuant
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club
Melbourne
Australia
ph 0411 893 561
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 19:30:30 -0700
From: "Legate Legion"
Subject: Re: Dogma
From: Douglas E. Berry
Subject: OT: Dogma
>Go see this movie. It's wonderfully funny, and makes you think about
>religion and God as seperate subjects. Alanis Morissette plays God and
>pulls it off beautifully.
>
>OBTrav: Jay and Silent Bob as NPCs (or, God forbid, PCs)
Silent Bob would make a good PC. You have to think that he carries Jay,
& if it was not for Silent Bob, Jay would have been dead a long time ago.
*weg*
Legate Legion
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by
killing all those who opposed them
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 18:34:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Kyle Schuant
Subject: Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery
Huummmm,
> > >if you could cool him down, I wonder just how big
> a crater he would make?
> >
> > "Bigger than one made by any pimply-faced,
> weak-kneed Army Rapid
> > Intercourser, By God! An' smile when you call me
> 'Impy'"
> >
> > - Armsman/1c Gerg Schulters, Lima Co, 1183rd
> Marine Regiment (Hell on the
> > Half Shell), interviewed while under a table at
> the 404 Club.
>
> "Only if the Marine landed head-first. The
> hollow-point effect, don't
> you know."
>
> - Corporal Shannash Irkirkhaamn-Noland, Alpha Co,
> 1199th Jump Infantry
> Regiment ("Aces and Nines"), upon hearing of
> Armsman/1c Schulters'
> remarks.
"Well, it's good to know that the Navy always will
land us at the right place."
- - Private Naive Bastard, Charlie Company, 5th
Battalion , AIF, Gallipoli, April 1915
=====
KA Schuant
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club
Melbourne
Australia
ph 0411 893 561
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1374
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From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)
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Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #1374
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