Traveller-digest    Wednesday, October 20 1999    Volume 1999 : Number 1234



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Ditzie's Warrant Followup
Drive DestructionSequencing
Re: PBeM TCS Islands Campaign
Re: Drive DestructionSequencing
Calling Chris Thrash re: gt: starships
Re: Traveller 3D Model Sites
Re: Happy Birthday, Galileo!
Re: Space Opera?
Re: Happy Birthday, Galileo!
Re: Space Opera?
Re: Canon, background, etc
Re: J Andrew Keith CV
Re: Traveller 3D Model Sites
Re: Supporting our game [really long]
Re: GTL9 5 dTon Shuttle
Re: J Andrew Keith CV
Copyright Issues with SJG (was: GT: Starships)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:59:45 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Ditzie's Warrant Followup

Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella wrote:
> 
> > Make sure "show graphics" is on in your browser.
> > Jesse
> 
> Oh, I got that on. And all other sites come through fine, with pictures and
> everything, it's just the warrant and credit 3 that are hiding behind some
> fat byte somewhere. Strange.

That's just to keep you from seeing the fnords.  Don't worry about it.


- -- 
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:57:24 -0600
From: "Eric T.  or  Maryann C. Holmes" <holmberg@thuntek.net>
Subject: Drive DestructionSequencing

Fellow Travellers:

Some assistance please from the gearheads and scientific types out there.
And another question about a certain piece of Excel Software.

First:

This past weekend, the players in the gaming group decided to board a
ship.  The racial make-up of the boarded ship is immaterial at this point,
so here goes.

How long would the destruct sequence need to be set for a starship with
size "X" engineering and an escaping crew's manuver drive "Y" ??

Since the ship in question had a CT Jump 2, Power Plant 2  with 600dT, and 
the escaping crew was in a launch with a 1g Manuver drive, I gave the 
boarders 15 minutes to figure out what to do.  I actually gave them the
15 minutes, this time was used to view schematics out of the
Starship Operators' Guide and some other I had drawn up.

I assume that the deciding factor would be how far the escaping crew would
need to be based upon the Power Plant size.

Second:

Somewhere out there in the past three years, I down loaded an Excel
spreadsheet
that had all of the "canon" sectors listed.  I now am having trouble using
this
because I have been transferring between two computers and one has Excel 95
and the other Excel 97.  Guess which one has the spreadsheet saved    :-(
Needless to say. I'm looking for the owner/developer of said spreadsheet
so I may download it to the Excel 95 machine.

Thanks for you assistance.

Eric

PS:  The "Andrew Keith" should be a Tigress class BB!

- --
eholmes@lanl.gov			holmberg@thuntek.net
7am to 4pm Mountain Time		6pm to Midnight Mountain Time

IMTU:  he+, tc+, tm, tne, t4, tg, tt, to, ru, ge, 3i+, c+, jt, au, st, ls+,
pi+, ta+,
	as+, va+, dr+, _sa_, kk--, hi--, so++, zh, vi, da, sy, _hu_ 
		(sa = other sapients, hu = other humani)

Lacedaemon, we have done our duty.
- --

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:03:58 -0700
From: Ken Hagler <khagler@orange-road.com>
Subject: Re: PBeM TCS Islands Campaign

on 10/20/99 4:33 AM, Cynthia Higginbotham at cyhiggin@pipeline.com wrote:

> Keep posting about this, and I'll finally be motivated to
> put the designs and chronicles from Steve's PBeM TCS Islands campaign
> of a few years back on my web page.  (Yes, I've mentioned this before,

I'd really like to see that!
- -- 
                                 Ken Hagler

   |          ICQ#: 34591293         |   For PGP key send mail with  |
   |   http://www.orange-road.com/   |    subject "Send PGP Key".    |
   |     Don't give it up! Don't give up your dream --Mari Iijima    |

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:12:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Drive DestructionSequencing

Eric T.  or  Maryann C. Holmes writes:
> This past weekend, the players in the gaming group decided to board a
> ship.  The racial make-up of the boarded ship is immaterial at this point,
> so here goes.
> 
> How long would the destruct sequence need to be set for a starship with
> size "X" engineering and an escaping crew's manuver drive "Y" ??

Depends on the design, see below.
> 
> Since the ship in question had a CT Jump 2, Power Plant 2  with 600dT, and 
> the escaping crew was in a launch with a 1g Manuver drive, I gave the 
> boarders 15 minutes to figure out what to do.  I actually gave them the
> 15 minutes, this time was used to view schematics out of the
> Starship Operators' Guide and some other I had drawn up.
> 
> I assume that the deciding factor would be how far the escaping crew would
> need to be based upon the Power Plant size.

No, it's probably mostly based on how much warning time the designers wanted to put into the ship, and what sort of scuttling charge the designers used.

Civilian power plants won't _have_ a destruct sequence, making the issue irrelevant.  Military ships may well have scuttling charges, but they will probably be extremely low power -- set them off and the ship will abruptly lose all power and start decompressing (and be completely unstartable, and probably require months of work in a shipyard to repair), but it won't be destroyed, and personell on board will probably be ok if they're in pressure suits.  A few ships might have an actual self-destruct charge, which would be a tactical nuclear device, probably in the kiloton range for the ship above.

In any case, the time required to reach a safe distance at 1 G is 20-30 seconds.  The primary reason for a large builtin delay is to give plenty of room for dealing with problems in the event that someone fucks up.  Note that scuttling charges will be detonated _before_ the crew evacuates.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 23:15:54 +0100
From: John Buston <John.Buston@tesco.net>
Subject: Calling Chris Thrash re: gt: starships

Calling Chris Thrash.

I cannot mail you directly as you are on IO.COM and for some reason IO.COM
bounces me with a REJECT 550 (and has been for at least a week). Do you have
another e-mail address I can mail you on? Or another Starships playtester I can
use as a trusted intermediary?

John.Buston@tesco.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 18:13:42 -0400
From: "Micheal D. Peters" <Travelleri@home.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller 3D Model Sites

Lloyd,

TS 4 is a nice program. I played with a free copy of TS 1 or 2 before going
to Raydream 5 which will be changing to Carrara in the near future (Some
really nice upgrades there!). Anyway, we don't have a 3d model site ... yet,
but I've also been looking at the Star Wars sites with envy! Jesse's talked
about it a number of times too! Maybe it's time to do something about it!.

One of the problems is cross compatability. I can work with several formats
right now, DXF, obj, b3d, as well ae the native rds format. I know TS uses
cob format and can import several others. What's the concensious out
there?What would be the most usable format?

Mike

- ----- Original Message -----
From: LLOYD ROBINSON <LJR@sbscorp.com>
To: <traveller@mpgn.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 12:12 PM
Subject: Traveller 3D Model Sites


> Hi,
>
> I recently upgraded my computer and got a copy of trueSpace 4. I have
> seen model sites that have collections for Star Wars and Babalon 5. I was
> wondering if there were any sites like those that specialized in models
for
> Traveller.
>
> Lloyd
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:20:51 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Galileo!

I seem to recall that one of the recent Mars probes has a hardened
Motorola PowerPC chip...sure hope it wasn't the one they just planted :-(

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


On Wed, 20 Oct 1999, David J. Golden wrote:

> At 06:44 PM 10/19/99 PST, you wrote:
> >In mail you write:
> >I'm not sure what the latest "space rated" CPU is, but at that time
> it
> >was the RCA 1802 (same chip used in the *ancient* "ELF" computer
> >training kits from the 70s).
> 
> 	My copy of SMAD* is at work, but it lists some. The only one I
> recall off the top of my head is the Rad6000--a rad-hardened, space
> rated version of IBM's R/6000 processor; 32-bit running at (IIRC)
> 33MHz. I know there are several other 32-bit CPUs currently being
> offered or in works (even rumors of somebody trying to port the
> Pentium to a more resistant technology).
> 
> *SMAD: Space Mission Analysis and Design. Kind of an overview of
> *everything* you need to know for spacecraft design; helpful for a
> single engineer to do quick'n'dirty Back Of The Envelope sizing and
> feasibility estimates.
> 
> -- "Conscience is the inner voice that warns us somebody may
>    be watching" 
>    -- H. L. Mencken
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:38:47 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Space Opera?

At 4:39 AM -0700 10/20/99, owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
(Traveller-diges wrote:
Wed, 20 Oct 1999 02:33:02 -0700 (PDT), "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
>>I've realized that Space Opera doesn't have a very good definition.  To
>>some it is highly cinematic, soft science (banking space fighters "Lensmen
>>type") SF.  To other is simply means that you have things that don't exist
>>in modern society (FTL Travel, psionics, etc.).  Whether Traveller is Space
>>Opera depends on your definition.

>I can't see that Traveller is anything but Space Opera.  Easy FTL travel,
>psionics, antigravity, huge space battles, aliens who look like cat people
>and dog people (and cool as they may be, Aslan are cat/lion people), &
>vast interstellar empires are all traditional marks of Space Opera.

That is one definition.  Traveller has a few techs that stretch current
understanding (FTL, graviticis, psionics) but mostly follows "hard"
science.  It has aliens (and this alone is sometimes enough to take
things as Space Opera) but they are fairly realistically done (the
Aslan are fairly well modelled on something that migh descend from
a generic pouncer/carnivore, the cat/lion thing is as much humans
reading their own experience into it than anything else).  If you
compare to Lensman, it isn't even close.  If you compare to Terradyne,
then it is way out there.  In the end it depends on your definition.

>Space Opera ranges from the wacky end like Star Wars & Lensman to more
>realistic material like Trowbridge & Smith's Exordium quintology, but it
>has a definite feel and definite conventions and Traveller is a typical
>example of the more realistic end of space opera.
>
>With very few exceptions, *all* space-related RPGs are space opera. Hard
>SF games don't sell terribly well (2300 & Blue Planet are the only major
>examples around).  The only non-Space Opera SF games involving space
>travel (as opposed to cyberpunk or other types of SF) are the newer space
>anime genre, represented primarily by DP 9s excellent game "Jovian
>Chronicles".
>
>Comments?

Like I say, that is _one_ definition.  I have come to realize that
different people have different ones.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:42:04 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Galileo!

> From: Robert Conley 
> Maybe this is how you can handwave those big hulking Classic Traveller
> Computers

I thought this too.  Wouldn't it be a hoot if one of Traveller's greatest
clunkinesses turned out to have some sort of resemblance to the truth?

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:46:12 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Space Opera?

> From: Mark Watson 
> My take:
> 
> Hard science fiction isn't the only science fiction. There is science
fiction
> that puts the science before the fiction, and science fiction that places
an
> emphasis on the fiction above the science (eg CJ Cherryh, PK Dick, IM
Banks,
> Fred Pohl, numerous others). All I ask of science fiction is that
whatever
> ideas are developed have an internal consistency, and a believability
within
> that consistent context. I think Traveller has at its best striven for
that
> consistency. On the other hand, it contains numerous space opera tropes
(for
> example, the blood on the palace steps springs to mind). 

Banks' Culture stories are pretty much Space Opera written by a "real"
author.  That is, it's Space Opera taken to its highest level, where it
starts to become something else.

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:41:18
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Canon, background, etc

At 04:44 PM 10/20/1999 -0400, you wrote:

> Now I'm starting to realize that I have absolutely no idea what half of you 
>are talking about.

<snip>

>So like a piker, I'm wondering if there's some readily (i.e. very cheaply) 
>accessible source from which I can garner at least the basics of the CT 
>campaign background-- Imperial political figures, history, etc.

Well, the GURPS: Traveller book would be a good place to start..  Timeline,
nutshell descripsions of most major events, persoanlities, etc.

http://www.prairienet.org/~dmckinne/timeline.html

This is the Traveller Integrated Timeline, an exhaustive listing of every
event ever chronicled in the offcial Traveller universe.  It does list the
death of Strephon, and acts of the Rebellion through 1121.

http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw/libdata/libframe.htm

Hyphen's Library Data.  Most complete.  Very useful.
- -- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:10:22
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: J Andrew Keith CV

At 01:24 PM 10/20/1999 -0500, you wrote:

>Can someone here provide me with a list of titles that Andy wrote?

Here's a short list based on a quick raid of my stuff.. couldn't dig into
the storage boxes since my wife was asleep.

Ordeal by Eshaar, FASA, 1981.  Co-author with William H. Keith

The Sky Raiders Trilogy, FASA, 1981-2 Co-author with William H. Keith

Adventure 11: Murder on Arcturus Station, GDW 1983

Double Adventure 5: The Chamax Plague/Horde, GDW 1981 Co-author with
William H. Keith

Double Adventure 6: Night of Conquest, GDW 1982 Co-author with William H.
Keith

The Undersea Enviroment, Gamelords, Ltd 1984

The Mountain Enviroment, Gamelords, Ltd 1986

Editor: High Passage, A ticket to Traveller adventure (Issues 1-5) FASA,
early 80s

Editor: Far Traveller, FASA 1982  Number of issues unknown.

I was also hard pressed to find an issue of the Journal that didn't have an
article written by him.. notable examples:

"The Closest Encounter" #7 pg 14
"Drannixa Gambit" #15 pg 20
"Jon McRae" #16 pg 46, co-author with Tim Kokkelnberg*
"Special Supplement 2: Exotic Atmopspheres" #17 pg 17
"Travelling Without a Starship" #18 pg 32
"Adventures in Traveller: Trade and Commerce" #20 pg 20
"Religion in the Two Thousand Worlds" #24 pg 6**

*This issue also featured "Giving the Bank a Fighting Chance" by Jolly R
Blackburn.  Hoody-Hoo!

**This issue also had an article by Leroy Guatney on High Guard/TCS campaigns.



- -- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:13:05 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Traveller 3D Model Sites

I mentioned in an earlier post that .DXf is one of the more universal
formats. .DXF doesn't permit the importation of texture
data, it's pretty much just the polygons (and it is POLYS only, no
fancy-schmancy NURBS or other exotic surfacing critters) but just about
every program out there will import a .dxf file.

But, there are programs like CrossRoads (on Windows) and Imagery on the
Mac will translate among formats. I know, for instance that .cob and .lwo
files are openable on Imagery, and saveable to other formats. Crossroads
is more versatile. The aithor of Crossroads, iirc, also has a Mac version,
but it's like version 0.001a, meaning "Does it crash when you double-click
it? No? Great! No quit, it can't do anything else" ;-)

Deciding on common formats will take some doing. When I get home and
figure out what it is that I can open, I'll post the list. If the other
3DFolk want to do the same (that way we can figure out who we all are) We
can start looking at building a modelling repository.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


On Wed, 20 Oct 1999, Micheal D. Peters wrote:

> Lloyd,
> 
> TS 4 is a nice program. I played with a free copy of TS 1 or 2 before going
> to Raydream 5 which will be changing to Carrara in the near future (Some
> really nice upgrades there!). Anyway, we don't have a 3d model site ... yet,
> but I've also been looking at the Star Wars sites with envy! Jesse's talked
> about it a number of times too! Maybe it's time to do something about it!.
> 
> One of the problems is cross compatability. I can work with several formats
> right now, DXF, obj, b3d, as well ae the native rds format. I know TS uses
> cob format and can import several others. What's the concensious out
> there?What would be the most usable format?
> 
> Mike

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:19:25 -0000
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Supporting our game [really long]

From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com>


>I think what is being overlooked here is a very *basic* principle.
>Alas, it tends to be overlooked a lot, not just in gaming.


I can't speak for anyone else here, but I can say that I am not overlooking
this.

>"You can't change just *one* thing."


Well, you can if you know what you're doing, and more importantly why you're
doing it.

>To put it another way, everything interrelates. And changing *anything*
>has *some* effect on everything else.


Well, not always. We're dealing with a constructed game universe here where
nobody but the most devoted fans have access to even a portion of canonical
information. When you get right down to it, if somebody were inclined to say
that psionic powers are absurd in and eliminate them entirely from their own
Traveller universe, it doesn't matter that it invalidates the Empress Wave
of the TNE universe.

So then, with a modicum of thought, psionics could well be excised from
somebody's Traveller universe with very few side effects, nasty or
otherwise. The Zhodani could then be changed from an interstellar
civilization that uses psionics to an interstellar power that has certain
"deep structures" that are fundamentally at odds with the Imperium. The
Psionic Suppressions could be eliminated as well. If you're really hardcore,
and you happen to know that SuSAG built its fortune on psi-drugs, than you
could easily come up with another reason for their vast wealth: life
extension technologies, extremely forward thinking management, a lucky
break... whatever.

Now, before anyone jumps down my throat, I'm not advocating eliminating
psionics. This portion of the thread started when Craig Berry said "You
can't use the canon background without psionics, as the Zhodani are key to
that background." My response was that it was possible, as large swaths of
the Third Imperium background do not depend in any way on the Zhodani.

In fact, the very concept of the Zhodani could be removed, for all intents
and purposes, if you're playing a Reformation Coalition campaign, or a
campaign in Daibei, or a campaign in the Solomani Rim.

>All too often, these side effects get overlooked. Until some bright
>player points out a logical consequence of the change and the GM has to
>scramble to patch the hole.

This happens *much* more frequently in reverse, at least in canon. When it
became apparent that bio-technology was going to become increasingly
important in the near future it was simply blamed on the Vilani's lack of
understanding of the bio-chemistry of their own world. This concept raises
several important issues, the most pressing of which is the fact that the
Solomani are much more advanced in this area than the Third Imperium. Other
races, such as the Aslan, the K'Kree and the Hivers don't have this problem,
nor do the Zhodani. So it would seem that this very lack of general
knowledge in the Imperium leaves a gaping hole. Why aren't other
interstellar civilizations who are hostile to the Imperium using this?
Personally, I would think that in the rush to catch up with other
interstellar civilizations that the Imperium could very well place more
emphasis on bio-technology because they are so weak in this area.

In other words, it could be argued that the very patch itself could have the
direct opposite effect that it was intended to. In my own experience, this
tends to happen more frequently in canon than the scenario that you
envision.

>And often the patch has side effects of its
>own. Pretty soon you've got this ugly mess of patches upon patches.


Yep. Which is the way that I see the very setting of the Third Imperium as
it stands. before anybody gets all worked up over this statement, keep
reading.

>That's why you have to think things thru. And be aware *in advance* of
>the holes a change can put in the background.


It's much, much more important to understand *why* a canon exists in the
first place, to understand what the purpose of that canon is. For example,
in the U.S., there is a canon of high-school literature. This canon exists
so that there is a degree of common ground between students, and that
institutions of higher learning can know what the majority of their students
will have been exposed to previously. That is the real meat of the agenda of
high-school canon. There are various sub-agendas that various groups will
attempt to impose and some even succeed from time. But the purpose remains
the same.

The question then isn't about what you can change, and what effects it will
have, but about why you are changing it, or why you do not want it changed,
which is how this discussion was started in the first place.

Quite some time ago, in a similar discussion, someone (I think it was Hans)
stated his position bluntly and clearly: He didn't want changes in canon
because he didn't want any part of his Traveller collection to be
invalidated. Fair enough. Besides my already voiced opposition to this
statement, I have no complaints. It's honest, it's straightforward, and it
makes perfect sense. He wanted to be able to use as much new Traveller
material as possible with as little work as possible. It's completely
understandable.

I must admit, Leonard, that your position on the matter has always baffled
me a bit, simply because it always comes down to the "player / GM" scenario.
It goes without saying that sometimes GMs are going to make mistakes in
doing things in their own universe that could have amazingly detrimental
effects on the rest of his campaign.

My question is: So what, exactly? This is not something that is in any way
specific to Traveller, and is a problem that crops up in all roleplaying
games. There will always be that point in a DM's early dungeon crawl where a
player will say "Hey, what did that carrion crawler that was locked into
that room back there eat, anyway?"

That's exactly how lots of the things that are accepted, or partially
accepted as canonical actually became canonical in the first place. "The
Vilani are conservative, that's why the Third Imperium seems so
technologically backwards" is simply, "The kobolds forced that carrion
crawler in that room and locked the door because it was eating them" on a
larger scale.

The real problem is that your criterion for canonical information is that
it's a criterion that rules out chunks of canonical information that are
already accepted. In this case, your defense could be just as damaging to
what you're defending as the opposing argument.

Canon was never static, and it's not static right now. If you start at
Classic Traveller and work your way forward, you'll see very distinct
periods of growth where certain ideas, concepts and bits of history change,
and sometimes drastically.

Early on, the influence of the Vilani as a cultural group was downplayed. In
the MegaTraveller era the Vilani became a much more distinct and powerful
influence on the Imperium. There was a time that Annic Nova could be
published, and few would even bat an eyelash. As time passed, and more hard
"facts" about Jump Travel appeared, some decided that the Annic Nova could
not be rehabilitated with the newer understanding of jump space. It would be
difficult, for example, to publish something like Shadows nowadays, because,
as you stated Leonard, you can't change just one thing (in this case, the
introduction of a new, technologically advanced ancient species). The list
goes on and on.

The change in the *feel* of the Imperium is a very important one, which is
why I tried to take the focus off of the technological aspect a bit in my
original post. I wasn't advocating the inclusion of bio-tech, or
cybernetics, or nanotech, I was simply saying that the canon of the larger
beast of sci-fi has changed (it's actually undergone a revolution), and the
even larger canon of the real world has changed.

The post-cold war Soviet / U.S. Solomani is starting to look extremely dated
to folks who don't even remember what a true communist super power was like.
The reflection of the then current politics of the U.S. and the Soviet Union
in the form of the Imperium and the Zhodani is no longer current (although I
have to hand it to the TNE folks, "updating" the Zhodani to the status of
their real world counterparts via the Empress Wave was a rather interesting
twist).

I'm not advocating anything at all. A fact is a fact. I remember back when
Loren was playtesting GURPS Traveller, he posted his nanotechnology sidebar.
There was at least one person who said that they'd rather see that space go
to something more important, but Loren is a canny fellow. He kept it in.
It's an issue that comes up on this list with a fair amount of frequency. It
gets a lot of discussion. He handled it well. There was no furious
handwaving, none of this "...the Vilani are so conservative..." garbage. He
didn't say that it might turn out to be a dead end technology, and so that
in the interest of keeping Traveller as "hard science" it couldn't be
allowed. What he did say was that elements of nanotech are at odds with the
Traveller universe, that's why it's not in there. Clear, plain, concise
prose.

That rhetorical decision was absolutely brilliant on Loren's part. On one
hand, he explains it plainly, no handwaves needed. He said what everybody
really means when they call on Vilani conservatism, or alludes that it might
be a dead end technology. It causes problems.

The best part about the way that Loren handled it? It doesn't squash
imagination. He even gave folks a gentle nudge toward the Imperial Research
station idea (use it sparingly, folks), but more importantly it doesn't
close the door entirely. If a GM feels that it might work, he puts it in. If
it doesn't, no harm done. Most GMs have made mistakes in the past. No
biggie. With the current understanding of nanotech in the Traveller
universe, it's still possible that someone might write a piece for Pyramid
on how GMs might rectify it in the Third Imperium. People may read this
piece, use it, hammer it out... and *voila* canon would be formed the way
that canon had been formed in the days of CT. Slow accretion of ideas
cribbed from modern scientific trends and modern sci-fi canon that people
generally agreed upon and could refer to in the future.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 00:20:13 +0100
From: John Buston <John.Buston@tesco.net>
Subject: Re: GTL9 5 dTon Shuttle

Bont wrote:
>Also, what are we to do with the Ship's Boat?  It carries 96 (more if 
>outfitted as such) passengers for up to 24 hours!  Where are they 
>gonna do their business?

What do you think that 8.5 DT cargo bay is for?

I think there is nearly 8 cubic foot of spare space in a passenger module. The 8
modules added together would have enough spare space for a cramped airplane
style toilet. The module also costs slightly more than I calculate it should, so
you could handwave that it is already included.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 18:54:11 -0500
From: "shadowcat" <meow@advancenet.net>
Subject: Re: J Andrew Keith CV

>Can someone here provide me with a list of titles that Andy wrote?

Merchant Class Ships, FASA

Fifth Foreign Legion Novels:
March or Die
Honor and Fidelity
Cohort of the Damned

Journal Articles:
The Care and Feeding of NPC's, #9
Planet Building, A Referees Guide, Co-Authored with William H 
Keith, #11




Shadowcat AKA Kevin Walsh
Captain of the Free Trader Beowulf
ADD/ADHD Advocate
http://www.advancenet.net/~meow

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:05:28 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Copyright Issues with SJG (was: GT: Starships)

Dear Folks -

I'm always interested in copyright (mainly to ensure I don't break it on my
website), so I paid close attention to Chris' comments:
>I agree: I would much rather fix the sourcebook before it comes out. The
>only way I can accept those comments is through the official playtest
>process.
>
>> Another point is that once your design is out in the public domain SJG
>> probably won't use it in their product, which means that the best
designs
>> may be rendered unusable. As more readers probably read the official
books
>> than the TML, your audience is larger if you get in print.
>
>I can't use *anything* that isn't submitted directly to me, for copyright
>reasons. Anyone who is interested in submitting needs to read the
>disclaimers on my website:

This is interesting. For reference, the Imperium Games position regarding
the TML was quite different:

============================
> [me] However, does sending stuff to these mailing list count as
"publishing"?

[Matt Machtan, IG] "To respond to your question, no sending 'stuff' to the
mailing lists does not count as publishing.  You may post your future JTAS
article on say the X-boat or Traveller Digest and get feedback from all of
the awesome TRAVELLER fans there-in, especially since until you actually
submit the work WITH A DISCLAIMER FORM, it is not Imperium Games property.
Note that the whole idea behind the Disclaimer form is that you are selling
your work to Imperium Games.  Imperium Games is purchasing your work, much
the same as from a freelancer.  In essence, you ARE a freelance
author/artist if you submit your work to JTAS."

> [me again] My hope is that the lists can be used to knock the rough edges
off an article (or plug the gaping holes) so that the final submitted work
is as good as you can make it.

[Matt again] "Absolutely,for the purposes of feedback we highly encourage
you to post your future article on the mailing lists.  It gives you a
better idea of how your article looks through someone elses eyes.  They may
find a mistake, or perhaps make a suggestion that would have otherwise gone
unnoticed."
============================
(taken from my website => Tavonni Repair Bays => "The Official Word from
Imperium Games: Publishing vs Mailing Lists")

[BTW, there are currently four articles on copyright in the Repair Bays:
the one above, the Deck Plan Question (Marc), the Photocopying for Personal
Use question (Marc), and Marc's Net policy regarding Traveller.]

I can understand SJG being different in this regard - since they already
have a playtest site, they probably believe that this is enough of a forum
to "thrash out" (sorry, Chris ;-) the design concepts and rules.

[I know that if you sign the SJG disclaimer and submit something to them
for publication, you cannot put the same thing up on your website. That's
why Jesse's images are different to the ones in the published G:T books,
for example].

Is this the official SJG position: "We already have a forum, so we don't
need to reference the TML, thank you"?

Keith, Chris, Loren, your comments?
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1234
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