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Date: Sun Mar 28 22:00:03 EST 1993
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #451: Msgs 5324-5342 
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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun Mar 28 22:00:03 EST 1993
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #451: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 451  5324 20-Mar-1993 metlay           Vargr kicks << >Metlay, I think you're 
 451  5325 21-Mar-1993 Mark Urbin       Traveller fiction <<    In a recent inf
 451  5326 22-Mar-1993 Bruce Pihlamae   << Has anybody seen a copy of Traveller
 451  5327 21-Mar-1993 Joe Heck         TNE arrival date << From what I've hear
 451  5328 21-Mar-1993 Mark Urbin       'Understanding Traveller' release from 
 451  5329 19-Mar-1993 Scott S. Kellog  Alien Ship Design << Brad sagt:
 451  5330 22-Mar-1993 Robert S. Dean   TNE Release Date << In your letter date
 451  5331 22-Mar-1993 Mark Urbin       TNE release date <<    Someone asked ab
 451  5332 22-Mar-1993 metlay           Re: Traveller Fiction << >Date: Sun, 21
 451  5333 22-Mar-1993 "Lord Krieg"     Traveller books << Author Jefferson Swy
 451  5334 22-Mar-1993 Stephen Camp     Traveller:TNE  -> Release date << Bruce
 451  5335 23-Mar-1993 Neil Ford        TNE Demo Team Rules << >
 451  5336 23-Mar-1993 Robert S. Dean   Starships and Space Vikings << urbin@in
 451  5337 23-Mar-1993 Robert S. Dean   Re:  Alien Ship Design << skellogg@lone
 451  5338 23-Mar-1993 Robert S. Dean   Mayday variants? << While I'm thinking 
 451  5339 23-Mar-1993 "Pedro A.C. Tav  to brian Sweeny >system cross-sections 
 451  5340 23-Mar-1993 Stephen Camp     what's a Star Wars blaster in Trav? << 
 451  5341 23-Mar-1993 Scott S. Kellog  Re:  Alien Ship Design << Brad sagt:
 451  5342 23-Mar-1993 Sean Maguire     New Era - Character Generation <<  

------------------------------

Bundle: 451
Archive-Message-Number: 5324
From: metlay@netcom.com (metlay)
Subject: Vargr kicks
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 93 22:37:28 PST


>Metlay, I think you're becoming a little too enamored of your favorite
>MT alien race. :^)

Becoming? |->

>Neither of the attributes you describe stand up to close scrutiny,
>especially the second.  While a Vargr may have nice sharp claws
>(when they're barefoot), they can't kick as high as a comparably
>trained human martial artist, since they're a smaller race.  They
>also won't be able to deliver as much force in the blow, since they
>mass less that humans.  Your description would only hold true for
>a martial arts-trained Vargr vs. a non-trained human.  The only
>thing the Vargr *does* have going for him is that his skin is tougher
>than a humans.  Only the Urzaeng Vargr would be exempt from this
>size deficiency.

The mass of the leg muscles and the amount of torque in the blow
would be at least comaprable to a Human's, in my opinion. I'm not 
saying that a Vargr is superior in this regard, merely that they 
are by no means helpless. The same is true for Aslan, by the way.

>As for kicking down doors, mass becomes even *more* important.

I'll grant this. The Vargr bouncing off a locked door has become
too popular as a humorous image in Traveller for me to naysay the
idea now. |->


- -- 
mike metlay * atomic city * box 81175 pgh pa 15217-0675 * metlay@netcom.com
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"And up until now, people only thought my MUSIC was weird."

------------------------------

Bundle: 451
Archive-Message-Number: 5325
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 93 10:44:01 -0500
From: urbin@interlan.interlan.com (Mark Urbin)
Subject: Traveller fiction


   In a recent info release about T:TNE, GDW says, "Although we have allowed
authors to set their worlds in the Traveller universe in the past, we have
never had a GDW-sanctioned Traveller novel."  No other information except that
they are going to do one now.

   My question is just what novels have been written in the Traveller universe
before?  I've seen the reverse.  For example, H. Beam Piper wrote about the
Sword Worlds and Space Vikings years before Traveller Classic came out.
Anybody have a list of post Traveller release fiction written?  Actual, 
published novells, not just fluff.  Hmm...If there is any fluff on line,
besides the PBEM, you could point that out also.

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  \      oo    				Mark Urbin   Racal-Interlan
   \____|\mm   "Vouf, Vouf!"		These opinions are mine, no one 
   // //\ \_\  				will claim them...
  /K-9/  \/_/  				urbin@interlan.com
 /___/_____\   				eclipse@world.std.com
 ----------- 	  Where am I going and what am I doing in this handbasket?
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

Bundle: 451
Archive-Message-Number: 5326
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1993 09:26:18 +1100
From: Bruce Pihlamae <pihlab@cnb07v.hhcs.gov.au>


Has anybody seen a copy of Traveller - New Era in the shops yet?

Our local games store (here in OZ) says he's been told to expect them 
any day now so they must already be on sale in the USA and/or UK where
he normally gets them from.

- -- 

Bruce...        pihlab@hhcs.gov.au

"If you swallow a live frog first thing in the morning ...
 Nothing worse will happen to either of you for the rest of the day."

*******************************************************************
* Bruce Pihlamae  --  Database Administration                     *
* Commonwealth Department of Health, Housing & Community Services *
* Canberra, Australia                             (W) 06-289-7056 *
*******************************************************************
* These are my own thoughts and opinions, few that I have.        *
*******************************************************************

------------------------------

Bundle: 451
Archive-Message-Number: 5327
Date:         Sun, 21 Mar 93 21:14:01 CST
From: Joe Heck <CCJOE@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu>
Subject:      TNE arrival date

From what I've heard (no promises on the accuracy on this) TNE has been
pushed back to May. There is some "transfer" module kinda thing coming out,
but it isn't the actual TNE yet. My cohort in crime that sits next to me
sometimes calls GDW for giggles and he relayed (here's the unreliable part)
that there was "a problem with the rules or some such".

Yeah, I know - didn't stop them with MT, but still...

Dat's all I heard.

 joe                          (314) 882-5000
 ccjoe@mizzou1.missouri.edu

------------------------------

Bundle: 451
Archive-Message-Number: 5328
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 93 22:09:06 -0500
From: urbin@interlan.interlan.com (Mark Urbin)
Subject: 'Understanding Traveller' release from GDW

 
 
  I stopped by the local gaming shop today and found a GDW
handout about Traveller: The New Era.  It's called
`Understanding T:TNE'.  It has the standard cover art on the
front that we've been seeing for months in Challenge magazine. 
The two inside pages is broken up into four sections:
 
        1. The Thousand-year Imperium is Dead!
 
        2. The Dawn of a New Era
 
        3. The Hard Edges of Space
 
        4. A Different game for a different era
 
  More on these in a bit.
 
 
 
  The back page lists products for T:TNE.  Besides the Core rule
book (due in April according to GDW on the phone last week &
listing for $25 according to the new distributor catalog at the
dealers), GDW has two rule books and two background books in the
works.  Add to this 25mm miniatures from RAFM, `detailed
Traveller starships' as well.  There will be a Traveller novel
put out by GDW also.
 
  There is one rule book for expanded starship combat.  `useful
for single-ship encounters as well as squadron actions...'. 
Don't worry, basic starship rules are in the basic rule book.
 
   The other rule book is called `The Technical Architecture'. 
It will provide a layman's explanation of the real science
behind the numbers.  Topics covered will include:  acceleration,
gravity, power generation and laser light dispersion.  The book
will also give design sequences for systems not normally found
in Traveller (can you say `Stutter-Warp'?).  This will allow you
to use GDW House Rules for just about any SF universe.
 
   These two books were not in the catalog I saw.  No release
date or price known at this time.
 
 
 
    The first of the background books is called `Survival
Margin'.  It's the crossover product for MegaTraveller and
T:TNE.  Conversion guidelines are in this one.  It was in the
catalog and listed for $10.  I don't remember a release date for
it.
 
    The other is called `Reavers'.  It's about the Hiver backed
Star Vikings (alternate name: `Reavers').  No date, no price.
 
 
 
     Then they have the boxed set, called `Deluxe Traveller'. 
Core rules, Technical Architecture and `a variety of playing
aids.'  Again, no further details.
 
 
 
        Getting back to the four inside sections...
 
 1. The Thousand-year Imperium is dead!
 
    Nothing new here.  The text blurb is the story from the
character generation rules GDW prereleased on Genie.  The one
with the old guy with the `shiny radiation scars' that `came
flickeringly to life in the dancing firelight.'
 
 
 
 2. The Dawn of a New Era
 
        "When I hit the Hiver technical curriculum, it was as if Id
come home for the time.  this was where I belonged, and it's
where I would have stayed if the first expeditions into The
Wilds had turned out differently.  But all that came later."
 
    Reach out into the Wilds and help your fellow humans back
into space, even if you have prove that you have superior
firepower first. :-)
 
  3.  The Hard Edges of Space.
 
        "When we found out what happened to the crews of those first
ships we send into The Wilds, it was as if everyone went a
little crazy.  Or maybe we all just grew up.  Maybe there isn't
a lot of difference.  Veronique had been on one of those ships -
sweet, brilliant, gentle Veronique."
 
   Remember that superior firepower I mentioned?  It is not
pretty out there.
 
   It goes on to talk about the four regions of T:TNE.
 
        1.  The Regency:  The old Domain of Deneb.  No deyos here.  Old
Imperium tech that has been hidden behind a strict quarantine for the last
seventy years.
 
 
 
        2.  Pocket Empires:  That's us!  `...isolated islands in a sea
of anarchy.'
 
 
 
        3.  The Rim:  Hiver backed traders who got smeared by
barbarians (i.e. old Imperials and Solmani) the first time out.  Now they 
`have begun a more vigorous campaign.'  These are your Reavers or Star 
Vikings.
 
 
        4.  The Wilds:  The rest of the Old Empire.  GDW sums it up
this way..."ruined worlds struggling in ignorance and barbarism.
 On many of these worlds there remains relics of pre-Collapse
technology, and these are used by small ruling elites to force
absolute obedience from the masses of the population, medieval
subsistence agriculture existing side-by-side with grav tanks
and battledress-equipped feudal overlords."
 
 
 
  4. A Different Game for a Different Era
 
        A bit of copy that reads like H. Beam Piper describing a Space
Viking raid on a planet of the old Terran Federation.  Right down to 
mentioning chicken stealing.
 
    It then goes on to tell us that GDW House Rules are much
better than old MT rules and is compatible with TW2K, Dark Con
and the ever popular Cadillacs and Dinosaurs (Hey, I got my
copy!  Never know when I'll need the stats for a T-Rex :-}). 
Another plug for the `Traveller Technical Architecture' book. 
Here they mention by name -- stutterwarp, star gates and matter
tranmitters.
 
 
 
   That's all I have.  Has anyone seen the advance release `Demo
Team' rules yet?
 
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Urbin  Racal-Interlan   Boxborough, MA  These opinions are mine.
"Justice Department studies show that armed citizens are much less likely to 
suffer losses or personal injury from thieves" -- Washington Post 1/7/92
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Bundle: 451
Archive-Message-Number: 5329
From: skellogg@lonestar.utsa.edu (Scott S. Kellogg)
Subject: Alien Ship Design
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 93 12:40:14 CST

Brad sagt:
> Subject: Alien Starship Designs
> Since the group has been fairly slow lately, I thought I'd take a tangent
>   off the military thread (a very sharp tangent :).  How about
>   a discussion of layout concepts for non-human races?

One of my fave topics!  |->

>   For Hiver ships, since they tend towards 'hives', the access panels
>   and passages would obviously be more like tunnels.  Perhaps the
>   ship would even lack an organized bridge, being either a conglomeration
>   of the bridge officer staterooms (controls integrated into the stateroom
>   computers), say organized in a ring around the main computer core.

I dunno.  I'd think that the Hivers are better engineers than that.  They'd
have a ship laid out on what was most efficient for them.  I don't think
tunnels make for very efficient movement.  Also, just because they lived
in 'Hives' way back before they were intelligent does not mean that they
are an integral part of their layouts today.  I don't think HUMANS could
do so well without a bridge (see below) but Hiver's *might* concievably do
so.

>   The name 'spinal weapon' suggests that the ship is basically mounted
>   on the weapon.  What about having a cylinderical power plant organized
>   in the center of the ship, with the spinal weapon (if any) built
>   directly into the power (aka Star Trek (first movie) 'we can't fire
>   the phasers in the worm hole because they channel directly through
>   the warp engines').

:-P  If you have a power plant, why use it to ONLY power the weapons?
It would be different if we were using the engines to generate electrical
power, but in the case of Trav ships, we are using a power plant to
genereate electical power, and that to power the engines.  There is no
direct connection as there is in a car, or aircraft.  Nuclear sub is
closer, but I don't know if they use electric motors.  (Steve?)

>   If the crew members can run their stations from their staterooms,
>   the bridge is entirely psychological.  So who needs a bridge?

Yes, you Could do away with a bridge, but it would increase the reliance
on super efficient intercom systems to make up for the loss of the bridge.
It is a lot easier for HUMANS to communicate quickly face to face than it
is over any other media.  Consider all the information that is conveyed
by facial expression, tone of voice, etc.  Now you'd have to transmit all
that on the com lines from stateroom to stateroom.

It is MUCH more efficient psychologically, and equipment wise to have
all your officers in one spot to help make decisions as quickly as
possible.  Think combat environment.  How are you gonna collaberate on
tactics if you gotta send your message through channels?

>   On the control side, since there are multiple backup computers on board,
>   what if a race decided to have instead each computer control a section
>   of the ship (either logical (engineering), or physical (foreward bulkhead).
>   Imagine the troubles hijackers might have.

No.  There are three computers aboard ships running in parallel.  They
are not working on separate tasks.  The three systems check answers against
each other and then act.  If one system, fed the same data as the other two,
consistantly disagrees with the others it is considered faulty and shut down.
That is how it works in the X-29 computer assisted fly by wire systems.
(I'll bet the F-117 uses a similar system)

All the computers are tightly linked.  Take over one, and you've gotten
all three.

>   Or better yet, having ships that are naturally modular in design
>   (intended to fragment due to battle damage to facilitate escape/combat).

Which would require heavy redundancies, raising cost and reducing effieincy
of systems.  Each module would have to have it's own drives, computers, and
controls.  As a craft design it would be a real mess to handle.  It *IS*
covered by the MegaTrav design system, but I think between Rob Dean and me,
we've only done about 3-4 such designs (Low tech staged rockets & spacecraft)
The reason we've produced so few is that they are a royal pain.

> --Brad
- ----------------------------
Me sez:
> : She's definitely the most beautiful aircraft
> : ever built:  the sexiest thing that ever took to the skies.

Richard sez:
> An informal poll of rec.aviation, sci.military, and sci.aeronautics came
> up with the same answer, BTW.  Basically, for those who know about
> flying, or just love to fly, the XB-70 was the most beautiful thing ever
> to grace our turgid little planet.
>
> Beware of wingtip vortices, though.  :=(

MMM yeah.  Especially, if you are flying a tiny little flyweight like an
F-104 starfighter.
Interesting note:  According to Al White, they didn't feel much
from the mid air collision, and didn't know it was THEM that the chase
planes were yelling about until she snapped over on her back 18 seconds
later.

> And as for the rest of your description, well....

One of these days, I'm gonna get my fiancee out to the Air Force Museum
at Dayton where the B-70 is...  Get the two sexiest women in the universe
under one roof...  and we're gonna...  we're gonna.....

Mmmmmm....Wow......  |->
- --
Scott 2G Kellogg
Test.sig
Test.sig
1...   2...   3...


------------------------------

Bundle: 451
Archive-Message-Number: 5330
Date:     Mon, 22 Mar 93 9:49:50 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@cbda8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  TNE Release Date

In your letter dated Mon, 22 Mar 1993 09:26:18 +1100, you wrote:
> 
> Has anybody seen a copy of Traveller - New Era in the shops yet?
> 
> Our local games store (here in OZ) says he's been told to expect them 
> any day now so they must already be on sale in the USA and/or UK where
> he normally gets them from.
> 
> Bruce...        pihlab@hhcs.gov.au

He must be working from an obsolete catalog, then, because GDW is still
uploading early versions of the playtest files to GEnie, which leads me
to believe that the game is still at least three months from being 
published, and most likely even more.

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Bundle: 451
Archive-Message-Number: 5331
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 93 10:47:02 -0500
From: urbin@interlan.interlan.com (Mark Urbin)
Subject: TNE release date



   Someone asked about the Traveller:The New Era release date.  Here is the
data I have on the subject.
	1.  I called up GDW last week. They said `April'.

	2.  I spoke with the local RPG dealer, who was at a dealers convention
		in Las Vegas last week.  GDW was there and did NOT have a
		copy of the game to show the dealers.  I'll take the up side
		view and figure the `release' version was still at the
		printers.

	3.  It's been posted here and on the the TNE-Pocket list that GDW is
		looking for Demo teams to show off TNE and it's been played
		at least one convention.  GM had photocopied rules.

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  \      oo    				Mark Urbin   Racal-Interlan
   \____|\mm   "Vouf, Vouf!"		These opinions are mine, no one 
   // //\ \_\  				will claim them...
  /K-9/  \/_/  				urbin@interlan.com
 /___/_____\   				eclipse@world.std.com
 ----------- 	  Where am I going and what am I doing in this handbasket?
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Bundle: 451
Archive-Message-Number: 5332
From: metlay@netcom.com (metlay)
Subject: Re: Traveller Fiction
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 93 8:07:51 PST

>Date: Sun, 21 Mar 93 10:44:01 -0500
>From: urbin@interlan.interlan.com (Mark Urbin)
>Subject: Traveller fiction
>
>   In a recent info release about T:TNE, GDW says, "Although we have allowed
>authors to set their worlds in the Traveller universe in the past, we have
>never had a GDW-sanctioned Traveller novel."  No other information except that
>they are going to do one now.

Yeah, and I should have been the author, Metlay mumbles to himself in
a junk-food-induced haze from his adipose slump in the cushions of his
couch. |->  

>   My question is just what novels have been written in the Traveller universe
>before?  I've seen the reverse.  For example, H. Beam Piper wrote about the
>Sword Worlds and Space Vikings years before Traveller Classic came out.
>Anybody have a list of post Traveller release fiction written?  Actual, 
>published novells, not just fluff.  Hmm...If there is any fluff on line,
>besides the PBEM, you could point that out also.

There haven't been any recognizably Traveller-Imperium books that I
know of in publication; I can't imagine GDW would have allowed such a
copyright violation to occur without making SOME noise, and I can't
imagine such a book getting out without the TML echoing with critiques
and so on.

As for "fluff," there's always MY fiction (the Grant stories and Near
Miss).  Parts of the Near Miss book (all but the final section) have
been finished for years, but GDW's people to whom I spoke on that
subject (hi Loren) were at the time very polite but firm in their
intention not to publish books, and I never pursued the matter any
further.  Besides, it's set in the Trav Classic universe, and it
wasn't ready to go before the MegaTraveller mindset-shift, so the
point was moot. I have some bits of it online, but nothing I'm
ready to hand out for free just yet.

I'd like to publish some Traveller fiction one of these days, but it's
low on my priority list right now for reasons that will become very
obvious very soon <dark hint>. When I do get around to writing T:TNE
fiction for possible publication, it will probably be within the 
context of another piece I'm putting together for GDW....

What I'm hoping to do with respect to T:TNE is to follow the course
recommended by Loren several months ago, specifically to allow the
game a chance to get established and then put forward an outline for a
sourcebook on the Traveller-Classic Universe, i.e. a sort of civilized
economic/corporate/cultural/aristocratic "warfare" game set in the
Third Imperium of 1120, where Strephon has foiled an assassination
attempt but has suddenly realized that he is not in as firm control of
the Imperium as he should be. At this stage, I have a tentative "yes"
from a potential co-author, about whom I won't say more until he or
she agrees to dive in headfirst and the project gets a go-ahead from
GDW. We hope to market a more workable economics system, a simplified
ship design system that gets rid of "advances" like thruster plates, and
some well-developed cultural and political background for the various
hotspots of interest around the Imperium: Antares, Vland, the Solomani
Buffer Zone, and so on. I plan to pursue this project vigorously with
GDW, in the hopes of providing a worthwhile sourcebook for those users
who have a huge investment in old Traveller materials and would like a
more modern framework in which to put their old adventure and library
data modules to use. We'll keep you posted.


- -- 
mike metlay * atomic city * box 81175 pgh pa 15217-0675 * metlay@netcom.com
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I'm looking for a woman with a REALLY sexy pancreas."      (m. t. jackson)

------------------------------

Bundle: 451
Archive-Message-Number: 5333
Date: 22 Mar 93 11:35:00 PST
From: "Lord Krieg" <CVADSAAV@CSUPomona.Edu>
Subject: Traveller books

Author Jefferson Swycaffer has written a series of novels based on Traveller.
These novels are _not_ set in the "normal" Traveller universe, but in one
devised by Swycaffer. Aside from the history and political aspects, the 
technology is Traveller. Also, the author includes a mention of Traveller in
his "acknowledgements."

The only title I remember offhand is _Not In Our Stars_, which was Swycaffer's
first book (with this setting). It's pretty good. If there is enough interest,
I'll dig out the others and post the titles.

                            Kenneth G. Hagler

**********************************************************************
*   Internet: cvadsaav@csupomona.edu    *   My insurance company     *
*   Phone: (909) 865-7751               *     is Beretta U.S.A.      *
*   PGP 2.2 key available on request    *                            *
*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
*   ...study of the military arts will make one who is naturally     *
*   clever more so and one who is born somewhat dull rather less     *
*   so.                                                              *
*            --Daidoji Yuzan Shigesuke, _Budo Shoshinshu_            *
**********************************************************************


------------------------------

Bundle: 451
Archive-Message-Number: 5334
From: hobbes@spacemanspiff.den.mmc.com (Stephen Camp)
Subject: Traveller:TNE  -> Release date
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 93 14:18:22 MST

Bruce Pihlamae writes:
> 
> Has anybody seen a copy of Traveller - New Era in the shops yet?
> 
> Our local games store (here in OZ) says he's been told to expect them 
> any day now so they must already be on sale in the USA and/or UK where
> he normally gets them from.

This morning I called GDW ((309)452-3632 - US phone #), and enquired as
to whether Traveller: The New Era was shipping yet.  The woman who answered
the phone said no, it wasn't shipping yet.  Then I asked when it was
expected to ship.  She said mid to late-April.  Take it for what it's
worth.

Personally, I've got mixed emotions about T:TNE.  Forget about all the hoaky
explanations they've presented about a silicon eating virus etc etc.  I'm 
concerned about all the rule changes.  All their adds hype their 'new'
GDW 'house rules' stuff.  So your Twilight:2000 character can join up
with some Dark Conspiracy yo-yos and 'jump' into Traveller for a few go-rounds.

Well, this one's been batted around before, but I'm going to let off some
steam... One of the first things I do when I look at a combat-oriented 
RPG or one that uses combat a lot, is to read the damage rules in the 
combat section and see if they 'feel' reasonable and if they're easy to use
and if they're properly deadly.  I thought the original 1st Ed T:2K did an
ok job, and I looked forward to GDW fixing it up, making it better, and
fixing the obvious gaffes such as GI Joe shooting Ivan with a .45 point
blank in the chest and Ivan smiles back and says, "May I have another?"

Well, I got Traveller: 2300 and though the combat system seemed strange 
at first, the more I thought about it, the more it made sense.  Perhaps
a bit simplistic, it seemed, nevertheless, to be very quick to play, and
_very_ deadly.  Then T:2K (2 Ed) came out, and I quickly flipped to the
damage part of the rules, and was very disappointed!  Now Ivan can take
like 2 or 3 shots of .45 point blank in the chest.  Even the max possible
damage from a .45 won't knock an average man unconscious, let alone kill
him!  (In case you haven't noticed, I use a .45 or similar caliber
automatic pistol as my measuring rod.)  Now T:TNE will be come equally
wimpy so some snot nosed kid used to Cyberpunk won't have his character
blown away.  Sheez!  As I was admonished as I joined the PBEM, combat
in Traveller is DEADLY!  and is to be avoided!  it is a last resort!  Well
not anymore!  Hey, We can shoot 'em up!  A few holes in your body?  Hey,
never you mind!  it's ok!  This is Traveller:  The _NEW_ Era.  Yeah, right.

Anyways, I'll have to see if it's really going to be as bad as it sounds.
Oh, well.

Ok, now that I've blown off steam... I'm working on a drop-in damage
system for personal combat (i.e. smaller than vehicle vs vehicle) for 
Traveller and MegaTraveller.  If it works, I think it should be easily
adapted to replace the GDW House Rules small arms damage etc.

Basically, my rules give hit location and damage to the hit location.  For
example, Joe shoots at Fred with a Gauss rifle.  He hits (he scores!) Fred
with 3 needles in the left leg (Ref says the thigh.)  One needle is only
a flesh wound, the second one shatters his thigh bone, and the third one
just generally rips up his flesh.

There are three basic rolls, more as optional rules are used, and
some very simple arithmetic:  a few additions/subtractions and one multiply
(i think only one - like 2*8 or 4*10, NOT 2.35*7.345). The first 
roll is to hit, the second one is to see where you hit, and 
the third one is to see how much damage you did.  This whole
 system is designed to be fuzzy.  There are no 'hit points'.  Just 
probablilities that a weapon of such and such a damage class will
kill/wound/maim a character of such and such a Life Force.  Also the
Ref is free to abridge/amend what happens as s/he sees fit: i
t's up to the GM to use his/her imagination to determine what 
happened.  My rules would be there to lend some framework/structure 
to the madness.  

If you like the way the combat works in classic Trav or MT, there's no
need to use my rules.  If on the other hand, one wants to see legs
and arms blown off and guts spilled out, my rules may be useful.

They're supposed to 'drop right in,' so if a ref just wanted to use
them to add some additional color commentary to the fight, they should
suffice.  In other words, my rules would still have a pen/dam of 2/3
for a 9mm auto pistol, and 20/3 for a laser rifle-13.  On the other
hand, I'm trying to work out some coherent rules if someone wants
to revamp the Traveller / MT weapons for their own campaign or adapt
them to another system.  If they work, they should also be able to 
be modified to replace the T:2K house rules.  

Anyways, is anyone interested?  I'm hoping to have a rough draft done
this week or next and could post it here for comments... Any bites?

- -steve camp
hobbes@spacemanspiff.den.mmc.com


------------------------------

Bundle: 451
Archive-Message-Number: 5335
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 93 07:15 GMT
From: Neil Ford <nford@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: TNE Demo Team Rules
Reply-To: nford@cix.compulink.co.uk


>
> That's all I have.  Has anyone seen the advance release `Demo
> Team' rules yet?
>

No not yet.  Ours were sent airmail on Friday.  We hope to have them 
sometime this week.  I understand that they were used about a month ago 
at a con in Ireland.  We are scheduled to be running cames at GamesFair 
'93 at Reading University on 2nd - 4th April.  Nothing like cutting 
things fine!

Neil Ford
UK GDW Demo Team


------------------------------

Bundle: 451
Archive-Message-Number: 5336
Date:     Tue, 23 Mar 93 9:27:46 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@cbda8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Starships and Space Vikings

urbin@interlan.interlan.com (Mark Urbin) writes:
>  
>   The back page lists products for T:TNE.
> ...Add to this 25mm miniatures from RAFM, `detailed
> Traveller starships' as well....

The miniatures of both types would be welcome, as long as they don't try
to make the people look like refugees from Warhammer:40K, with "chain swords"
and guns as big as their heads, in all sorts of spiky bits of armor.

Regarding starships:  I have been nursing the germ of a project for a couple
of months.  Has anyone else seen the SpaceMat decorated felt sheets with 
hexagons sold by GeoHex?  How about the "Silent Death" miniatures?  Dis-
regarding the intended scale, several of the Silent Death ships struck me
as having "traveller-esque" lines to them, and if I can find a pictorial
catalog and a mail order supplier (help?), I've been considering putting
together a Mayday miniatures game, for conventions or whatever.  I figure
I'd use 3 castings to represent each ship--one decorated, for current 
position, one painted white for future position, and one painted black for
previous position...

>   4. A Different Game for a Different Era
>  
>         A bit of copy that reads like H. Beam Piper describing a Space
> Viking raid on a planet of the old Terran Federation.  Right down to 
> mentioning chicken stealing.

That's not surprising.  At Origins in '91, the GDW team was happy to
tell everyone who wanted to know that Piper is/was a primary influence
on Traveller.  Remember back that far?  Space Vikings (Or was it Star
Vikings?) was going to be a set of miniatures rules for planetary looting
raids, which was going to come with (plastic?) miniatures in the box.
Oh well...it's hard to keep track of all the projects that have fallen
through the cracks at GDW.

Rob Dean



------------------------------

Bundle: 451
Archive-Message-Number: 5337
Date:     Tue, 23 Mar 93 9:31:36 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@cbda8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  Alien Ship Design

skellogg@lonestar.utsa.edu (2G Scott S. Kellogg) writes:
> >   Or better yet, having ships that are naturally modular in design
> >   (intended to fragment due to battle damage to facilitate escape/combat).
> 
> Which would require heavy redundancies, raising cost and reducing effieincy
> of systems.  Each module would have to have it's own drives, computers, and
> controls.  As a craft design it would be a real mess to handle.  It *IS*
> covered by the MegaTrav design system, but I think between Rob Dean and me,
> we've only done about 3-4 such designs (Low tech staged rockets & spacecraft)
> The reason we've produced so few is that they are a royal pain.

Yes and no, Scott.  Part of the reason is that they are annoying, and 
another part is that there isn't much use for them in adventures, since
I'm nowhere near running a Hard Times campaign.  Apart from a few designs
to try out a system, I like to design things that I expect that I might use
in an adventure. (-:

> One of these days, I'm gonna get my fiancee out to the Air Force Museum
> at Dayton where the B-70 is...  Get the two sexiest women in the universe
> under one roof...  and we're gonna...  we're gonna.....

I think you were one of the people they were talking about when they mentioned
underwear being too tight. (-:

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Bundle: 451
Archive-Message-Number: 5338
Date:     Tue, 23 Mar 93 9:34:44 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@cbda8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Mayday variants?

While I'm thinking about it, has anyone ever developed a Mayday variant
that included armor?

Rob


------------------------------

Bundle: 451
Archive-Message-Number: 5339
Date: 	Tue, 23 Mar 1993 11:28:57 -0500
From: "Pedro A.C. Tavares" <ftavares%ptearn.bitnet@utcc.utoronto.ca>
Subject:      to brian Sweeny >system cross-sections

Hi Brian,
Some time ago you sent a mail to the TML regarding 2300ad systems
cross-sections that you intended to post.
Did you put it in some ftp site from where I can retrieve them?

Thanks in advance,

=======================
Pedro A.C. Tavares

ftavares@ptearn.bitnet
=======================

------------------------------

Bundle: 451
Archive-Message-Number: 5340
From: hobbes@spacemanspiff.den.mmc.com (Stephen Camp)
Subject: what's a Star Wars blaster in Trav?
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 93 10:43:15 MST


What's the Traveller equivalent of a Star Wars Blaster?  Is there one?
(Has this question been booted around before? - I couldn't find it in
TOC.1 or TOC.2 on sunbane.  Is there a TOC.3?)

Is a Blaster just a pulse laser?  Or is it more like a plasma/fusion
gun (pgmp / fgmp)?  If so, I don't think such a thing exists in
Traveller below TL16.  At TL16, there was mention of a Plasma Rifle.
Would this be the same thing as a blaster rifle?

Do people consider the Star Wars universe to be incompatible with
the Traveller universe (the Force not withstanding)?  I know they
have 'hyperspace' and we have 'jumpspace', but are they so different?

If not, what would one consider the TL of the Star Wars Empire / Rebellion
to be?  TL16?  17?  18?  I don't think they can transmit matter yet, so
there is a limit on what they can do.  I don't know if their power 
sources have been discussed all that much in the movies/books on Star
Wars... Anyone got a clue as to whether it is fusion or anti-matter
based?  I'd guess fusion.

- -steve camp
hobbes@spacemanspiff.den.mmc.com


------------------------------

Bundle: 451
Archive-Message-Number: 5341
From: skellogg@lonestar.utsa.edu (Scott S. Kellogg)
Subject: Re:  Alien Ship Design
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 93 11:55:17 CST

Brad sagt:
>>>Or better yet, having ships that are naturally modular in design
>>>(intended to fragment due to battle damage to facilitate escape/combat).
Ich sage:
>>Which would require heavy redundancies, raising cost and reducing effieincy
>>of systems.  Each module would have to have it's own drives, computers, and
>>controls.  As a craft design it would be a real mess to handle.  It *IS*
>>covered by the MegaTrav design system, but I think between Rob Dean and me,
>>we've only done about 3-4 such designs (Low tech staged rockets & spacecraft)
>>The reason we've produced so few is that they are a royal pain.
Rob sagt:
>Yes and no, Scott.  Part of the reason is that they are annoying, and
>another part is that there isn't much use for them in adventures, since
>I'm nowhere near running a Hard Times campaign.

Yes, but the question was about high tech modular designs (TL 15 I assume)
And there, the modular designs might be more usable, but they would be more
costly because of the heavy redundancies involved.  This makes merchant
ships more expensive (plus, they couldn't enter atmosphere anyway).  And
while Ten 10-ton fighters might be joined together to get a 100 ton ship
with 10 turrets, it would be more vulnerable than it would be as individual
components.  Weleded together, one hit would wipe out the 10 fighters at
once, while individually, it would take 10 such hits to take out a squadron.

So, from neither mercantile nor military point of view, does it add up.

He:
>I think you were one of the people they were talking about when they mentioned
>underwear being too tight. (-:

It's not my fault I'm crazy.  :-P

Scott 2G Kellogg


------------------------------

Bundle: 451
Archive-Message-Number: 5342
From: Sean Maguire <smaguire@mihi.une.edu.au>
Subject: New Era - Character Generation
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 93 14:08:27 GMT-10:00

 
 Due to a prolonged absence off the TML, I unfortunantly missed
 the chance to look at the character generation for the new
 era . 
 
 Would anyone have a copy readily handy that they could email to 
 me please ???? I would be very grateful . 
 
 Also, last year, someone snail mailed me rather alot of traveller
 stuff, and I lost their address . I owe them a big favour, and
 If they could send me their name (I am RALLY sorry I forgot it),
 I would also be grateful . 
 
 Edmund
 
 
 


------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Wed Mar 31 22:00:01 EST 1993
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #452: Msgs 5343-5366 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Wed Mar 31 22:00:01 EST 1993
Reply-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed Mar 31 22:00:01 EST 1993
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #452: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 452  5343 23-Mar-1993 Robert S. Dean   Re:  Alien Ship Design << 2G Scott skri
 452  5344 23-Mar-1993 Scott S. Kellog  RE: Alien Ship Design (and missiles) <<
 452  5345 23-Mar-1993 Stephen Camp     Did Marc Miller leave GDW? << I haven't
 452  5346 23-Mar-1993 Les Howard       T:TNE Rules << Since I no longer have G
 452  5347 24-Mar-1993 Pauli            Starships and combat << Rob Dean writes
 452  5348 24-Mar-1993 Adrian Hurt      Re: Star Wars in Trav << hobbes@spacema
 452  5349 24-Mar-1993 Scott S. Kellog  Trav Fiction << Hiya,
 452  5350 24-Mar-1993 Sean Maguire     Mercenaries - expanded generation <<   
 452  5352 24-Mar-1993 FELLOWS STEVEN   GDW rumor << This was posted on interne
 452  5353 25-Mar-1993 "Gimme a light.  DESIGN: Space to space combat rules... 
 452  5354 26-Mar-1993 Steven Owens     Nukes In Spaaaaaace! << Somebody on ano
 452  5355 26-Mar-1993 James T Perkins  Testing TML << No need to reply... I'm 
 452  5356 28-Mar-1993 bryan borich     Rebel's Tales/Flashback <<     Rebel's 
 452  5357 28-Mar-1993 Stephen Camp     Personal Archives << Rich,
 452  5358 28-Mar-1993 Colin Roald      Re: Nukes In Spaaaaaace! << > Somebody 
 452  5359 29-Mar-1993 Richard Johnson  Re: Personal Archives << Stephen Camp s
 452  5360 29-Mar-1993 Robert S. Dean   Re:  Starships and combat << Pauli <gru
 452  5361 29-Mar-1993 Robert S. Dean   Re:  Star Wars in Trav << Adrian Hurt <
 452  5362 30-Mar-1993 Pauli            Re: Starships and combat  << Rob Dean w
 452  5363 29-Mar-1993 Steven Owens     Star Wars In Traveller << >> What's the
 452  5364 30-Mar-1993 l.wiseman1@geni  << Steve Camp:
 452  5365 30-Mar-1993 Adrian Hurt      Re: Star Wars in Trav << Robert S. Dean
 452  5366 30-Mar-1993 u9019138@athmai  Star Wars and Traveller << I have alway

------------------------------

Bundle: 452
Archive-Message-Number: 5343
Date:     Tue, 23 Mar 93 13:11:35 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@cbda8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  Alien Ship Design

2G Scott skribis:
> Rob sagt:
> >Yes and no, Scott.  Part of the reason is that they are annoying, and
> >another part is that there isn't much use for them in adventures, since
> >I'm nowhere near running a Hard Times campaign.
> 
> Yes, but the question was about high tech modular designs (TL 15 I assume)
> And there, the modular designs might be more usable, but they would be more
> costly because of the heavy redundancies involved.  This makes merchant
> ships more expensive (plus, they couldn't enter atmosphere anyway).  And
> while Ten 10-ton fighters might be joined together to get a 100 ton ship
> with 10 turrets, it would be more vulnerable than it would be as individual
> components.  Weleded together, one hit would wipe out the 10 fighters at
> once, while individually, it would take 10 such hits to take out a squadron.
> 
> So, from neither mercantile nor military point of view, does it add up.

I had not considered a TL15 modular design before.  Hmmmm...I would need
to think about it for a while before dismissing it.  For merchant usage,
I think that you are correct--redundancy would be too expensive (by the 
rules, I mean, of course), but for figthers, I don't know.  The current
damage rules for spacecraft are just a slightly revised version of High
Guard, as you know, and are not set up to handle some of the more exotic
things that we can think of.

BTW, why couldn't it enter the atmosphere?  As long as it has more that 1G 
of lift, it ought to be able to fly, albeit slowly.

Turret limits.  Got to think about turret limits one of these days.  The rules
might work without them, _IF_ we knew how missiles worked.  (If missiles need
continual guidance from the launcher, then the number that can be fired is
limited by the number that can be controlled, otherwise the number that can
be fired is limited only by the cost of the missiles.  In the former case,
ship designs could dispense with the turret limits for game balance puposes,
since there would be some sort of balance between increasing power requirements
for energy weapons and increasing control requirements for missiles, but in the
latter case, a High Guard/TCS style campaign would have to consider the cost
of resuplly in order to remain balanced.)  

Pardon my rambling...

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Bundle: 452
Archive-Message-Number: 5344
From: skellogg@lonestar.utsa.edu (Scott S. Kellogg)
Subject: RE: Alien Ship Design (and missiles)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 93 16:21:13 CST

Rob ecrire:
>I had not considered a TL15 modular design before.  Hmmmm...I would need
>to think about it for a while before dismissing it.  For merchant usage,
>I think that you are correct--redundancy would be too expensive (by the
>rules, I mean, of course)

Consider:  Ten 10-ton hulls (plus the spine to mount them on) will cost
and weigh more than a single 100-ton hull.  Also, for carrying cargo,
there will be more space wasted in 10 small cargo bays than in one large
one.  Economically it's bad news.   (But we already agree on that one)

>The current
>damage rules for spacecraft are just a slightly revised version of High
>Guard, as you know, and are not set up to handle some of the more exotic
>things that we can think of.

Well, I would say that a group of modular hulls acting as a unit would have
to be treated as one unit damage wise.  Consider:  A nuclear warhead hits
a ten 10-ton hulls vs. a single 100-ton hull.  Not a big difference damage
wise.  But you're quite right.  The current damage system wouldn't cover it.

> BTW, why couldn't it enter the atmosphere?  As long as it has more that 1G
> of lift, it ought to be able to fly, albeit slowly.

It would HAVE to fly slowly.  As the rules see it, unstreamlined ships are
not capable of flying in an atmoshere.  To my mind, they could.  So the
compromise is that they could with a LOT of trouble.  Now for modular ships
to do so would require some kind of ultra heavy duty docking locks for the
modules.  Now, if these babies can stand up to the thrust of the engines,
they should be able to stand under their own weight.  But getting them to
do so would require such structural reinforcement that any saving in
construction (if any there be) would be lost by the buttresses required.

>The rules
>might work without them, _IF_ we knew how missiles worked.  (If missiles need
>continual guidance from the launcher, then the number that can be fired is
>limited by the number that can be controlled, otherwise the number that can
>be fired is limited only by the cost of the missiles.  In the former case,
>ship designs could dispense with the turret limits for game balance puposes,
>since there would be some sort of balance between increasing power requirements
>for energy weapons and increasing control requirements for missiles, but in the
>latter case, a High Guard/TCS style campaign would have to consider the cost
>of resuplly in order to remain balanced.)

I don't think that the vast forces of the Imperium, the Zhos, the Aslan,
K'Kree, Hiver, Droyne... etc. etc. will all be using the same system of
missile guidance.

Some will used robotic seeker heads, some will used semi-active seeker heads,
active seeker heads, passive seeker heads...  The US now commonly uses four
types of air to air missiles, three of which use different types of seekers.
From what we are given, we have to assume that the traveller missiles are
an average of all the possible types.

However, what *I* guess is that since the standard (Book 2) description of
a missile rack sez three missiles per rack, I assume that each rack has
three long range maser communicators.  (That 750,000 Cr per has to go
toward SOMETHING).  Thus a battery can launch three salvoes of missiles and
keep all under control.  It would be possible to have more missiles under
control but would cost more.

Now, the missiles themselves cost about 20,000 Cr.  Using the old system of
missile rocket engines & fuel, there's not a lot left over for electronics
but some.  Still, a maser comm (even a short range one) costs close to
20,000 Cr.  Thus only a reciever can be present.

IMO, The missile's trajectory is calculated by the ship's computer, fed into
a simple electronic head and fired.  Mid course corrections are sent to the
missile via maser comm.  Finally, in the missile's terminal phase, it is
coming in on a precalculated trajectory designed to surprise the targets
defencive batteries.  A very small onboard computer takes it through the
targets defences and explodes the warhead.

Missiles get a +1 for long range and a -1 for short range.  (Rules)
This must be because the missiles are harder to detect at longer ranges.
If you don't see them being launched and track them till you can fire at
them, you don't have a lot of chance to avoid them or engage them with
counter battery fire.

Also, the longer the range they are fired from, the more the missiles will
be able to diverge and approach the target from unexpected angles.  Then
the counter batteries only get a few shots at the missiles during the VERY
short interval after they are detected and before they hit.

Make any sence?

Scott 2G Kellogg


------------------------------

Bundle: 452
Archive-Message-Number: 5345
From: hobbes@spacemanspiff.den.mmc.com (Stephen Camp)
Subject: Did Marc Miller leave GDW?
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 93 15:44:20 MST

I haven't seen Marc Miller's name anywhere on the recent MT
stuff.  Is he still at GDW?


- ----------
steve camp
hobbes@spacemanspiff.den.mmc.com


------------------------------

Bundle: 452
Archive-Message-Number: 5346
From: howard@castor.cs.uga.edu (Les Howard)
Subject: T:TNE Rules
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1993 17:58:52 -0500 (EST)

Since I no longer have GENIE access, could someone please u/l the New Era
rules that GDW put there.

Thanks.
	Les

------------------------------

Bundle: 452
Archive-Message-Number: 5347
Subject: Starships and combat
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 14:38:37 +1000
From: Pauli <grue@cs.uq.oz.au>

Rob Dean writes:

>Regarding starships:  I have been nursing the germ of a project for a couple
>of months.  Has anyone else seen the SpaceMat decorated felt sheets with 
>hexagons sold by GeoHex?  How about the "Silent Death" miniatures?

Haven't seen the hex sheets but I do have a few Slient Death figures.  The
figures are pretty good and some would fit into a trav game quite well.
Silent Death also contains some of the nicest printed hex sheets I've seen
so why not use them?  I don't remember seening a photo catalog for these
figures :-( and my local mail order places would be useless to you :-( :-(


He also wrote:
>While I'm thinking about it, has anyone ever developed a Mayday variant
>that included armor?

I have this dim memory of Bertil's Rebel Guard ship combat system using
some kind of mayday movement system.  I could easily be wrong becuase I don't
have the rules anywhere near me but for some reason my mind links the
two systems (then again, maybe I've taken too many hits to the head in
the past couple of years).


Finally about modular ships:

Designing them would be a bit of a pain but they would be cute in a battle.
Well a big ship would be, I have to agree that I'd treat 10x10 Ton ships
as a single thing in combat.  But what about 1000x100 Ton ships?
There'd have to be a gradual degradation of capability as the individual
'cells' was rendered inoperable.  I doubt it would be cost or space
efficient due to the huge redundancy required.  Anybody care to design one
of the Borg's ships in MT ??? :-)






        						Pauli

Paul Dale                       | grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Department of Computer Science  | +61 7 365 2445
University of Queensland        |
Australia, 4072                 | Did you know that there are 41 two letter
                                |     words containing the letter 'a'?


------------------------------

Bundle: 452
Archive-Message-Number: 5348
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cee.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Star Wars in Trav
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 9:39:47 WET

hobbes@spacemanspiff.den.mmc.com (Stephen Camp) writes:
> 
> What's the Traveller equivalent of a Star Wars Blaster?  Is there one?
> ...
> Is a Blaster just a pulse laser?  Or is it more like a plasma/fusion
> gun (pgmp / fgmp)?

It fires a bolt which glows, which explodes when it hits something, and which
you can see moving.  I'd guess that makes it a plasma weapon of some sort.  I
believe a plasma pistol was described in some Traveller publication, but I can
not remember where.

A primitive laser with a back-pack power supply was described in one of Brian
Daley's books about Han Solo, if I remember correctly. ;-)

> Do people consider the Star Wars universe to be incompatible with
> the Traveller universe (the Force not withstanding)?  I know they
> have 'hyperspace' and we have 'jumpspace', but are they so different?

Try building an X-wing using MT rules, complete with hyperspace/jump drives,
and 4 lasers plus a power plant which can drive them and its manouevre drive
at the same time.  Don't forget the deflector shields and the proton torpedoes.
When you've done that, try to figure out to the nearest millisecond how long a
Star Destroyer would last against something with a meson gun, factor T. ;-)

>					I don't know if their power 
> sources have been discussed all that much in the movies/books on Star
> Wars... Anyone got a clue as to whether it is fusion or anti-matter
> based?  I'd guess fusion.

That's my guess as well, judging by the Star Wars RPG.

- -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cee
 UUCP: ..!uknet!cee.hw.ac.uk!adrian  |  ARPA:  adrian@cee.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Bundle: 452
Archive-Message-Number: 5349
From: skellogg@lonestar.utsa.edu (Scott S. Kellogg)
Subject: Trav Fiction
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 13:51:05 CST

Hiya,

With all the talk of Trav Fiction, and a request for 'Fluff'
I oughta mention that the 4.5th Frontier War is still going on.

Yeah, yeah yeah, I'll get back to it one day...

And there was that one shot:  Language Barriers I wrote a while
back.

Scott 2G Kellogg



------------------------------

Bundle: 452
Archive-Message-Number: 5350
From: Sean Maguire <smaguire@mihi.une.edu.au>
Subject: Mercenaries - expanded generation
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 14:40:42 GMT-10:00

   Being bored, as I naturally am, I wrote up my version of the old
Book 4 mercenary expanded mercenary generation . Hmmmm, that sounds confusing.
What I did was create a character generation for actual mercenaries, instead
of soldiers (there is a slight difference) . 
   I am not sure this has been done, or, because of new era traveller, if
this will be of any use . But if anyone wants a copy, email me and I'll
send you one . 

   Edmund 



------------------------------

Bundle: 452
Archive-Message-Number: 5351
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1993 15:08:20 -0700
From: sfellows@slate.Mines.Colorado.EDU (FELLOWS STEVEN B)
Subject: GDW rumor



------------------------------

Bundle: 452
Archive-Message-Number: 5352
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1993 15:09:47 -0700
From: sfellows@slate.Mines.Colorado.EDU (FELLOWS STEVEN B)
Subject: GDW rumor


This was posted on internet news  ..  (AB)USEnews and I thought 
I might as well post it here too, to quell any rumors:

By the way, Malcolm is an electronic friend of mine, and he is not prone
to make up wild stories... pass them on, sure... :)

>>Malcolm Campbell (malcolmc@spider.co.uk) wrote:
>>>
>>>I've just heard a rumor through some fairly reputable sources that GDW have
>>>gone bust. Does anyone have a definate answer as to whether this is true or
>>>not..?
>

I just called GDW and asked them about this and other things.

My questions and the answers are:

1) Has GDW gone bankrupt or bust?

No.  They are still in business.

2) Do you have any idea how this rumour could have gotten started?

No.

3) When will Traveller : The New Era  come out?

Mid to Late April.

NOTE:  My own observations have seen GDW say one month and end up putting
it out 4 months laters.  I'll believe it when I see it.  However, the demo
teams are supposedly getting packs fairly soon.

4) Are you still putting out Dangerous Journeys ?  (Personally, I don't
like the game, but since it might be of interest to a few people, I asked.)

Yes.


5) What happened to your 800 number?  (toll free long distance number for
those people in the US.   I used regular long distance.) 

We no longer have that service. 


Once again, GDW is still in business.
This should dispell a lot of rumors.

I spoke to someone in customer service.  She was very pleasent, but I
didn't get her name.  Their number is:309-452-3632.

Steven B. Fellows
sfellows@slate.mines.colorado.edu




------------------------------

Bundle: 452
Archive-Message-Number: 5353
Date: 25 Mar 1993 21:49:19 -0500 (EST)
From: "Gimme a light. SHIRAK! No, bud light." <STU_RWMORRIS@VAX1.ACS.JMU.EDU>
Subject: DESIGN: Space to space combat rules...

I know this doesn't have much to do with traveller, adnd, or mythus, but...

I'm going to be working on a new space-combat system that integrates role-
playing, reality, and fun into a workable (though admittedly complex) system.
I'd like some help to create this system.  I think I might start with EGG's
Dangerous Journeys system as a base to start from, but knowledge of that 
system is not necessary.  I just need people with imagination...

I'd like to discuss things via IRC, if you have access to it.  If not, just 
drop me a line saying your interested and I'll try to send out a "report"
on the discussion.  I'd like to set up a time in the next couple of days 
to start this...

Any volunteers...?

Lucifer >:}

p.s. please mail me personally.  If you're on IRC, look for the #Oerth channel,
Noctifer (my name there) will be there...

------------------------------

Bundle: 452
Archive-Message-Number: 5354
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1993 09:59:35 -0600
From: Steven Owens <uso01@mailhost.unidata.com>
Subject: Nukes In Spaaaaaace!


Somebody on another mailing list brought up the question of what kind 
of effect a nuclear weapon detonating "near" your ship in space would
have.  I qouted some vaugely remembered discussions from the TML and
other sources, but didn't have much else.  Can anybody here answer the
question?

Steven J. Owens
uso01@unidata.com

------------------------------

Bundle: 452
Archive-Message-Number: 5355
Subject: Testing TML
Reply-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Administrator)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 93 16:51:43 PST
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@sp-eug.sp-eug.com>


No need to reply... I'm just making sure this gets through.

James

__   __/         /   /	    Internet Traveller Mailing List, Administrator
    /     /  /  /   /	   James T. Perkins in Eugene, Oregon, USA
 __/   __/__/__/ _____/   traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca

------------------------------

Bundle: 452
Archive-Message-Number: 5356
Date: 28 Mar 93 12:08:48 EST
From: bryan borich <70541.1410@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Rebel's Tales/Flashback

    Rebel's Tales got canceled, as did Flashback.
    As of current word Flashback still has a chance of becoming a product
to cover Traveller Eras before TNE. But is not currently on any schedule
or even being considered seriously yet.
    Rebel's Tales got canceled because DGP dropped out of producing MT
products. And because of TNE.



------------------------------

Bundle: 452
Archive-Message-Number: 5357
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 93 17:47:57 -0700
From: hobbes@spacemanspiff.den.mmc.com (Stephen Camp)
Subject: Personal Archives


Rich,

did the R-Alpha Design Notes go the way of the bitbucket?

If not, might I get a copy ?

thanks

steve camp


------------------------------

Bundle: 452
Archive-Message-Number: 5358
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 93 23:05:35 EST
From: Colin Roald <colin@callisto.pas.rochester.edu>
Subject: Re: Nukes In Spaaaaaace!

> Somebody on another mailing list brought up the question of what kind 
> of effect a nuclear weapon detonating "near" your ship in space would
> have.  I qouted some vaugely remembered discussions from the TML and
> other sources, but didn't have much else.  Can anybody here answer the
> question?

I believe the primary effect is from the radiation wave.  I think it's best
to look at it as a very small sun lighting up briefly right next to your
target.  Unless the hull provides incredible radiation shielding and heat
dissipation you have a dead ship.



- --
colin roald  |  another day, another mind-boggling adventure... (spaceman spiff)

------------------------------

Bundle: 452
Archive-Message-Number: 5359
From: richard@agora.rain.com (Richard Johnson)
Subject: Re: Personal Archives
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 93 5:45:59 PST


Stephen Camp says:
: 
: Did the R-Alpha Design Notes go the way of the bitbucket?
: If not, might I get a copy ?
 
Well, the whole story is:

  I dug up what I had and sent it to Mike and Mark, to see if they
  wanted to sanitize anything I release, since it's still fairly fresh
  in the minds of some characters.  I haven't heard anything back yet,
  so I'm being a good boy and holding on for a little while rather than
  try to sanitize them myself.

  Therefore, if you are playing in the PBEM, you can't have them
  till next season, unless Mark or Mike specifically tells me is OK.
  However, if you are not now playing in the PBEM (or if You are Alan
  Husscroft, John Kim, or Carl Fago--to whom I am deeply indebted for
  most of the material--you can have them as soon as I find them again


So, if anyone wants them (I still have three requests in my in basket),
just send me a note telling me you are not playing in the PBEM.  I'll
then send them to you.

If I or Mike or Mark spots fraud, we of course have even nastier
surprises waiting for you in the game.... :=)


Oh -- one last thing.  Under the rules we adopted when creating these,
the Archives are free use for TML members, friends, family, etc.  If you
want to use them "seriously", or send parts in to GDW or something, then
you need to talk to the four of us mentioned above.  Alan and John own
the copyright on most of the material.
- -- 
Richard Johnson      richard@agora.rain.com
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

------------------------------

Bundle: 452
Archive-Message-Number: 5360
Date:     Mon, 29 Mar 93 9:38:20 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@cbda8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  Starships and combat

Pauli <grue@cs.uq.oz.au> writes:
> 
> Silent Death also contains some of the nicest printed hex sheets I've seen
> so why not use them? 

Ah, you haven't seen the GeoHex product.  Even nicer.

> He also wrote:
> >While I'm thinking about it, has anyone ever developed a Mayday variant
> >that included armor?
> 
> I have this dim memory of Bertil's Rebel Guard ship combat system using
> some kind of mayday movement system.  I could easily be wrong becuase I don't
> have the rules anywhere near me but for some reason my mind links the
> two systems (then again, maybe I've taken too many hits to the head in
> the past couple of years).

I think you're right about this, but I was actually looking for a simple 
plug in armor rule for Mayday, which is only set up for small unarmored
ships at the moment.  I don't want to add 100kt meson gun ships right now,
but I would like to add something like a 400 ton close escort with an 
armored hull.

Probably some sort of saving throw based on armor level would be the way to
go...

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Bundle: 452
Archive-Message-Number: 5361
Date:     Mon, 29 Mar 93 9:52:19 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@cbda8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  Star Wars in Trav

Adrian Hurt <adrian@cee.heriot-watt.ac.uk> writes:

> hobbes@spacemanspiff.den.mmc.com (Stephen Camp) writes:
> > 
> > What's the Traveller equivalent of a Star Wars Blaster?  Is there one?
> > ...
> > Is a Blaster just a pulse laser?  Or is it more like a plasma/fusion
> > gun (pgmp / fgmp)?
> 
> It fires a bolt which glows, which explodes when it hits something, and which
> you can see moving. I'd guess that makes it a plasma weapon of some sort. 

Recreating Star Wars using Traveller is a matter of making a number of
decisions regarding translation.  My inclination would be to treat the
Star Wars blaster as a laser pistol, and the Force as straight psionics.
It's the light saber that is hard to translate, since I can't come up
with a good explanation for it that doesn't involve force field tech
that Traveller doesn't have.

> > Do people consider the Star Wars universe to be incompatible with
> > the Traveller universe (the Force not withstanding)?  I know they
> > have 'hyperspace' and we have 'jumpspace', but are they so different?
> 
> Try building an X-wing using MT rules, complete with hyperspace/jump drives,
> and 4 lasers plus a power plant which can drive them and its manouevre drive
> at the same time.  Don't forget the deflector shields and the proton 
> torpedoes....

If you really want me to, I will, (-:, but I was under the impression that
fighters didn't have hyperspace drives.  In any case, you could either do it
as a 100 ton fighter, or adopt 2-G Scott's suggestion that you permit the
minimum sized jump drive to be installed in any hull, limited only by
volume.  Call the deflector shield a sandcaster, and the proton torpedo
a nuclear missile, and you're all set. (-:  But seriously, as I said above,
most of the action in Star Wars could be replayed in Traveller with only a 
few minor modifications to the technology as depicted in the movies.  I don't
think that anything really critical to the plot hinges on the mechanics of
Star Wars universe, unlike something like Dune, say, where the use of the
Guild Navigators and personal shields are both important to the plot and
not terribly adaptable to Traveller.

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Bundle: 452
Archive-Message-Number: 5362
Subject: Re: Starships and combat 
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 93 11:19:21 +1000
From: Pauli <grue@cs.uq.oz.au>

Rob Dean writes:

>Ah, you haven't seen the GeoHex product.  Even nicer.

I've seen ads for them?  I have even thought about ordering some.  If they're
better then the silent death sheets, I'll have to get some.


>I think you're right about this, but I was actually looking for a simple 
>plug in armor rule for Mayday, which is only set up for small unarmored
>ships at the moment.  I don't want to add 100kt meson gun ships right now,
>but I would like to add something like a 400 ton close escort with an 
>armored hull.

Spoil sport.  They're easy to add.  Danger space of half the map, don't miss
very often, destroy what they hit. (-: (-:


>Probably some sort of saving throw based on armor level would be the way to
>go...

I know it isn't realistic, but what about something along the lines of battle
tech or SFB where you color in lots of circles as your armour is spent? :-)

I think some kind of saving throw would be a better alternative, or maybe
some form of damage reduction based upon the degree of penetration (kind of
like MT personal combat or silent death damage reduction factors).  This is
a smaller leap of faith for the players than the fill the boxes methods.



								Pauli


------------------------------

Bundle: 452
Archive-Message-Number: 5363
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1993 22:02:37 -0600
From: Steven Owens <uso01@mailhost.unidata.com>
Subject: Star Wars In Traveller


>> What's the Traveller equivalent of a Star Wars Blaster?  Is there one?

	I really prefer not to *try* to mix these sorts of genres.
Traveller, as fantastic as it is, has a much different feel to it than
Star Wars.  Perhaps I've been in the PBEM too long, but for me,
Traveller has greater versimilitude.

> Recreating Star Wars using Traveller is a matter of making a number of
> decisions regarding translation.  My inclination would be to treat the
> Star Wars blaster as a laser pistol, and the Force as straight psionics.
> It's the light saber that is hard to translate, since I can't come up
> with a good explanation for it that doesn't involve force field tech
> that Traveller doesn't have.

	Not that hard.  The light saber is, essentially, ancient technology
in the hands of a small religious sect, powered (if I recall correctly) by
the psionic energy of the user (aka The Force).  Light sabers in Star Wars
weren't something you could pick up down at the corner Sears.  They were
legendary in their ability to penetrate whatever you stuck 'em in, only the
jedi had 'em, and the jedi built their own.

Steven J. Owens
uso01@unidata.com

------------------------------

Bundle: 452
Archive-Message-Number: 5364
From: l.wiseman1@genie.geis.com
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 93 00:00:00 EDT

Steve Camp:
  >Marc Miller...is he still at GDW?
 
 Marc's selling insurance now, but he remains a stockholder and a member
of the board of directors.
 
 SOmebody beat me to the punch mentioning Jeff Swycaffer's novels (he's done
five or six, all set in his version of the Traveller universe called
the Preasidium of Archive. They were published by Daw, I believe, and
were done with the knowledge and permission of GDW (he asked us ahead of
time, and we said yes).
 
 Jeff Groteboer has also had a novel published ( I forget the name) set in his
gaming universe. Both books mention the game as their inspiration, and
acknowledge GDW's trademark.
 
 Who the H*LL are these "reputable sources" that keep saying we've gone
bankrupt? For the last decade, it seems that somebody has an "inside
source" that says we're about to go under...jeez.
 
 For the record, as of 22:40 CST 29 March 1993, GDW is still in business,
and plans on remaining so long enough to finance my retirement annuity.
And I am as inside as sources get...they don't get any more inside than
me.
 
 We have been experiencing some cash flow problems lately...GDW has been
undercapitalized since 1973 (20 years ago this June), but we will
pull through (we've done it before). Being sued hasn't helped at all.
 
 The woman who answers the phone is named Dianne, BTW. Try not to
give her too much flak about TNE not being out yet...it isn't her fault
(I'll take part of the blame). Anybody who wants a copy of the
TNE promo flyer mentioned above send me your address via Email, and I'll
send you one.
 
 Steve Fellows: We disconnected the 800 number because it was costing us
a frigging fortune.
 
 Sorry I haven't posted here in a while...my machine is giving me trouble...
more so than usual lately.
 
      Loren K. Wiseman

------------------------------

Bundle: 452
Archive-Message-Number: 5365
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cee.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Star Wars in Trav
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 93 9:24:59 WET DST

Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@cbda8.apgea.army.mil> writes:
> Adrian Hurt <adrian@cee.heriot-watt.ac.uk> writes:
> > hobbes@spacemanspiff.den.mmc.com (Stephen Camp) writes:
> > > What's the Traveller equivalent of a Star Wars Blaster?
> > > ...
> > 
> > It fires a bolt which glows, which explodes when it hits something, and
> > which you can see moving. I'd guess that makes it a plasma weapon of some
> > sort. 
> 
> Recreating Star Wars using Traveller is a matter of making a number of
> decisions regarding translation.  My inclination would be to treat the
> Star Wars blaster as a laser pistol, and the Force as straight psionics.

I'd agree about the Force/psionics - in fact, didn't one of the old Traveller
supplements have a UPP and description for Darth Vader?  Maybe you could put
the visible, exploding bolts which move as you watch them down to artistic
license or Hollywood ignorance. :-)

> It's the light saber that is hard to translate, since I can't come up
> with a good explanation for it that doesn't involve force field tech
> that Traveller doesn't have.

Once you've got proper deflector shields, my guess is that a light sabre is
just a high power laser plus a deflector shield to restrict the beam.  Of
course, someone is going to have to make some major advances in power
technology in order to have a laser that powerful with a power cell that is
held in the hand, rather than worn on the back.

> > Try building an X-wing using MT rules, complete with hyperspace/jump drives,
> > and 4 lasers plus a power plant which can drive them and its manouevre drive
> > at the same time.  Don't forget the deflector shields and the proton 
> > torpedoes....
> 
> If you really want me to, I will, (-:, but I was under the impression that
> fighters didn't have hyperspace drives.

Guess who hasn't seen "Return of the Jedi"? ;-)  Imperial fighters don't have
hyperspace drives, but Rebel fighters do.

>					  In any case, you could either do it
> as a 100 ton fighter, or adopt 2-G Scott's suggestion that you permit the
> minimum sized jump drive to be installed in any hull, limited only by
> volume.

The former option would make for a very large X-wing.  In Star Wars, "fighters"
means fighters, at most the size of present day fighters.  A 100 ton ship is
about the size of a decent airliner.

>	  Call the deflector shield a sandcaster, and the proton torpedo
> a nuclear missile, and you're all set. (-:

There are two problems with sandcasters.  (A) When an X-wing switches its
deflectors to the rear, you don't tend to see a big cloud of dust behind
it.  (You tend to see a big cloud of dust *instead* of it if the reason for
putting your deflector there is Darth Vader's TIE fighter. :-)  (B) Sand
does not stay with you when you turn, which makes it useless for fighters
which engage in the dogfighting seen in "Star Wars".

>								I don't
> think that anything really critical to the plot hinges on the mechanics of
> Star Wars universe, unlike something like Dune, say, where the use of the
> Guild Navigators and personal shields are both important to the plot and
> not terribly adaptable to Traveller.

Nothing especially critical to the plot, apart from light-sabres, dogfighting
fighters and weapons which can destroy entire planets with one shot. ;-)

- -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cee
 UUCP: ..!uknet!cee.hw.ac.uk!adrian  |  ARPA:  adrian@cee.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Bundle: 452
Archive-Message-Number: 5366
From: u9019138@athmail1.causeway.qub.ac.uk
Subject: Star Wars and Traveller
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 93 11:09:34 BST

I have always used elements of the SW universe in my games.

Blaster..it may be a pulse laser pistol....or what it is in Space
Opera...I think it was a particle accelerator type gun. Star Wars is
NOT hard science....you can see the lasers and everything which
isn't realistic.
However in my games..I did what Rob dean suggested.  The lightsabre
became a monofilament which conducted plasma via an intense magnetic
bottle similar to fusion power plants..remember even in SW the
lightsabre was a bit of arcane technology.

Xwing...no problem...Ywing less so...Awing  easy.  Of course you
have to extrapolate the jump drive table to minimal sizes and ignore
the 'minimum size for a jump drive rule'
4 lasers no worries....the screens are divided into two categories
ray screens and matter screens....the first is essentially an energy
discharge plate and the second is an advanced magnetic/force field.

The technology of SW is ahead of Traveller but the base principles
are the same.

Traveller Ships are limited by some bad rules..one problem I have is
wondering the optimum size of power plant for my ships as the
examples they give are few and far between.

Thankew
        Matt.


------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Wed Mar 31 22:00:01 EST 1993
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #453: Msgs 5367-5367 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Wed Mar 31 22:00:01 EST 1993
Reply-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed Mar 31 22:00:01 EST 1993
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #453: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 453  5367 30-Mar-1993 Scott S. Kellog  A note on Vargr  |-> << Here's another 

------------------------------

Bundle: 453
Archive-Message-Number: 5367
From: skellogg@lonestar.utsa.edu (Scott S. Kellogg)
Subject: A note on Vargr  |->
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 93 15:48:45 CST

Here's another odd Vargr note:  |->
Thinking on vargr vocal ranges:  From the wolf, it's a pretty large range.
Pitch accuity is supposed to be pretty good so I assume that perfect pitch
is more common than it is in humans.

But, will there be a qualitative difference between male and female voices
that would be detectable to a Human ear?  I'm not so sure.

Whaddya'll think?

Scott 2G Kellogg


------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Wed Apr 21 22:00:02 EDT 1993
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #454: Msgs 5385-5398 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Wed Apr 21 22:00:02 EDT 1993
Reply-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed Apr 21 22:00:02 EDT 1993
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #454: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 454  5385 15-Apr-1993 metlay           Re: Pallique & TL 14 Medicine << Kellog
 454  5386 15-Apr-1993 Scott S. Kellog  Re: Pallique & TL 14 Medicine << Me:
 454  5387 14-Apr-1993 Jeff Zeitlin     Traveller stuff << David Armour asks ab
 454  5388 15-Apr-1993 Scott S. Kellog  More Pallique << Hi all,
 454  5389 15-Apr-1993 Mark F. Cook     Re: Pallique & TL 14 Medicine << > >I d
 454  5390 15-Apr-1993 Anthony Neal     Fusion Drives... << Hello yet again:
 454  5391 16-Apr-1993 metlay           Re: More Pallique << >Ok, let's try som
 454  5392 16-Apr-1993 Jeff Zeitlin     Survival Margin/Virus sto <<   O.K., I'
 454  5393 17-Apr-1993 SULAIMAN@ecs.um  Traveller stuff auction. << Hi,
 454  5394 17-Apr-1993 Eric Edward Moo  Re: Pallique & TL 14 Medicine << metlay
 454  5395 18-Apr-1993 "CMD ENS ERIC M  Pallique & TL 14 Medicine (why ask why?
 454  5396 19-Apr-1993 PAVEWAY          A song and a query << Ok here is the so
 454  5397 19-Apr-1993 Scott S. Kellog  RE: Pallique & TL 14 Medicine (Not agai
 454  5398 19-Apr-1993 Brian Makens     You are invited to a wake..... << WARNI

------------------------------

Bundle: 454
Archive-Message-Number: 5385
From: metlay@netcom.com (metlay)
Subject: Re: Pallique & TL 14 Medicine
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 93 14:23:34 PDT

Kellogg make grunt scratch on skins with flint:
>Herr Metlay hat geschrieben:
>>PALLIQUE: One Ref's version of a world in the Marches.
>>>>Pallique, TL E, Population:  3 billion
>
>[Nasty planet deleted to save the digestive systems of the collective TML]

wimp. |->

>Ah, a very nice little write up of a world, with some good creativity.
>But...
>
>Come on Metlay!  Lighten up!

No. Next?

>A few points:
>I don't have my books with me, but if I recall correctly, limb and organ
>regeneration, cloning et all start out at about TL 9 and are quite
>available by TL 12.  Pallique is TL 14.

True. So? Earth is TL8 and there are people eating badly cooked meat
next to fires and dying of smallpox. As has been argued here many
times before, the TL of a world is its MAX TL, not what the hoi polloi
get. You can bet that the rulers of Pallique have it cushy, but the
same may not be true of the workers.

>Now SURELY, a world with such a large population will surely be able to
>handle the radiation you have invoked.  There must be large hospital's
>capable of handling it.  After all, the settlement's been there for more
>than a few hundred years.  SURELY the medical side of things would have
>evolved to handle the problems you've mentioned.

It has. Kill malcontents and put their organs in cooperative people.
Gets rid of the malcontents and stigmatizes the survivors so they
won't try to escape (people escape from prison all the time, but who
ever ran away from a leper colony?). It pays to remember that these
are not taxpaying citizens of a democracy or unruly serfs of an
autocracy that must maintain appearances before the Duke. These are
criminals, whose exile is a polite death sentence and who are not
expected to ever leave.

>Transplants to handle cancerous cells would be about a TL 7-8 type
>solution, not a TL 14 solution.  A TL 14 society with transplants as
>their major source of medical supplies is kinda like having a present
>day society resort to cannibalism when the corner market is out of food.

Yeah. So? The powers that be LIKE it this way. You can make a headache
go away with an incredibly expensive anaesthetic, or you can give a 
guy an Advil. Why spend more on treatments that take a long time when
you can have a guy back to work quicker and cheaper? On Newcomb in the
Solomani Rim, they let cancer victims die. That's REALLY cheap, but the
death rate balances the influx, which wouldn't be the case on Pallique.

>The cost of transplanting organs from one person to another is probably
>higher than it would be to clone a new one.  Think of all the problems
>with tissue rejection that need be overcome.  Not to mention the cost of
>getting it from the donor...  Of course if you're just kidnapping donors
>off the street, that's relatively inexpensive, but it's not gonna be if
>you keep doing it.  The contract to kidnap people is gonna rise in price
>until the  price it is comparable with cloning.  (supply and demand all
>the traffic will bear etc.)

You're not kidnapping donors, you're obtaining parts. Parts is parts.
And I'd argue that it's a lot cheaper to shoot someone full of
antirejective than to grow him a spiffy new liver in a tank for
several weeks or months that he may not have to play with. You can
postulate clean, simple organ cloning a la Star Trek for your Trav
campaigns-- I prefer a drug that stops rejection and the lung they
just pulled out of that healthy young jaywalker down the street.

>I remember (barely) an article on the cost of transplanting organs.
>Basically their estimate was that the 6 Million Dollar Man was dirt
>CHEAP.  I don't remember any of the figueres, but the cost of human
>organs for transplant was HUGE.

*BZZZT* Got yerself here, kiddo. You're applying TL7-8 costs and 
science to the economics of transplants. I would argue that when and
if the human race licks AIDS, it will have invented drugs that will
LAUGH at tissue rejection, or at least be well on the way to that
point. You won't even need sterility in some cases; gangrene and
peritonitis will be as common then as bubonic plague is now.

>As to the cause of this mess:  radiation induced cancer...
>Well, it seems to me that the good old nuclear damper could do an effective
>job of shielding the population.  (Very handy those things...  :-)

If you have them.

>There is also, the nicely effective meson gun.  I seem to remember a few
>years back, some people were talking about using a meson accelerator to
>attack cancer growths.  It's a lot more accurate in targeting cancer cells
>than radiation or chemotherapy or even lasers for that matter.  (ZAP!)

If you have them. 

- --

Scott, your arguments are valid and well-reasoned for a society that 
actually gives a damn about providing the best healthcare for its 
citizens in the long run and therefore improving their morale and
productivity. The picture you paint would be perfectly accurate on
Mora or Trin, or even on Regina. But on Pallique, it's a whole new
ballgame, because no one WANTS the workers to be happy or cheerful.
They're being PUNISHED. If they DIE, they DESERVE it. The Imperium
does not, to my knowledge, have a Constitution or a Bill of Rights,
and these criminals do not have a right to the best treatment money
can buy-- they are PRIVILEGED to receive CHEAP treatment that will
keep them alive long enough to do a decent lifetime's work. It's an
ugly truth that rarely surfaces in polite company on Trin or Mora
or anywhere else in the sector; criminals are swept under the cosmic
rug.

But the Rebellion's likely to change all that. Just imagine what's
gonna happen when the Lakht Aorlakht decides to claim Pallique's
riches for the ihatei and wants a solid base of popular support
in-system! |->


- -- 
mike metlay * atomic city * box 81175 pgh pa 15217-0675 * metlay@netcom.com
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll survive. Indeed I will. But boy will I ever be confused.  (s. kellogg)

------------------------------

Bundle: 454
Archive-Message-Number: 5386
From: skellogg@lonestar.utsa.edu (Scott S. Kellogg)
Subject: Re: Pallique & TL 14 Medicine
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 93 17:02:57 CDT

Me:
> Metlay:
> >Me:

> Kellogg make grunt scratch on skins with flint:

Ugh.  Durb!  Durb!  Hom wompa gul!  Hom wompa gul!  :-)

> >Pallique is TL 14.
>
> True. So? Earth is TL8 and there are people eating badly cooked meat
> next to fires and dying of smallpox. As has been argued here many
> times before, the TL of a world is its MAX TL, not what the hoi polloi
> get. You can bet that the rulers of Pallique have it cushy, but the
> same may not be true of the workers.

Urg.  I believe that the listed TL is referred to as the High Common.
ie.  The TL that Is generally available to the masses.  But I may be
mistaken.  That's how *I* call it any how.  That's supposed to explain
how a TL 4-5-6 planet has a class A or B starport.  Thus IMGO, a TL 14
planet should have very nearly TL 14 medicine.

> >Well, it seems to me that the good old nuclear damper could do an effective
> >job of shielding the population.  (Very handy those things...  :-)
>
> If you have them.

TL 12.  Also, they'd be a lot cheaper than the equivalent amount of
shielding for the population.  O 'course you could explain that away by
sayin' that the screen only partially covers the prison parts of the
colony.   But I'd say it would be cheaper to service a nuc damper than
to serve 3 Billion cancer patients.

> >There is also, the nicely effective meson gun.  I seem to remember a few
> >years back, some people were talking about using a meson accelerator to
> >attack cancer growths.
>
> If you have them.

TL 11.

> But on Pallique, it's a whole new
> ballgame, because no one WANTS the workers to be happy or cheerful.
> They're being PUNISHED. If they DIE, they DESERVE it. The Imperium
> does not, to my knowledge, have a Constitution or a Bill of Rights,

Rm?  No bill of rights?  You sure?  What about the (much abused)
thing that sez all sophonts have the same rights?  The thing that
made all the mess when cyborgs got classified as machines.
(wish I had da books, sigh)

Ok, we got a population of three BILLION criminal deportees.  A little
more than half what Earth's current total population.  GEEZ!  What's
the LAW level on Trin & Mora?  And who are the judges that pack 'em off?
(Probably frustrated Traveller Refs.  :-)

> But the Rebellion's likely to change all that. Just imagine what's
> gonna happen when the Lakht Aorlakht decides to claim Pallique's
> riches for the ihatei and wants a solid base of popular support
> in-system! |->

Hrm.  Hadn't thought of that.  Interesting.
- --
Scott 2G Kellogg
Picture a vargr version of Speed Racer with a guitar...


------------------------------

Bundle: 454
Archive-Message-Number: 5387
Subject: Traveller stuff
From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 93 19:28:00 -0500

David Armour asks about extant traveller products...

TA::>Alien Modules
  ::>    1    Aslan
  ::>*   2    ??        K'kree
  ::>    3    Vargr
  ::>*   4    ??        Zhodani
  ::>    5    Droyne
  ::>    6    Solomani
  ::>    7    Hivers
  ::>    8    Darrians

TA::>MegaTraveller

TA::>    Referees Manual
  ::>    Players Manual
  ::>    Imperial Encyclopedia
  ::>    COACC
  ::>    101 Vehicles
  ::>    Rebellion Sourcebook
  ::>    Starships Operators Manual (vol 1 !
  ::>)
  ::>    World Builders Handbook
  ::>    Referees Companion
  ::>    Hard Times
  ::>    Nightfall
         Alien Module 1 - Vilani and Vargr
         Alien Module 2 - Aslan and Solomani
         Astrogator's Guide to Diaspora Sector

  Traveller: The New Era

         Arrival Vengeance  (This might be better classed as MegaTraveller)
         Survival Margin 
==========================================================================
Jeff Zeitlin                                      jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com

- -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.1

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 * QMPro 1.01   * No wanna work.  Wanna bang on keyboard.^?

------------------------------

Bundle: 454
Archive-Message-Number: 5388
From: skellogg@lonestar.utsa.edu (Scott S. Kellogg)
Subject: More Pallique
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 93 20:32:37 CDT

Hi all,

Ok, let's try some back of the envelope calculations here.  (Now
that I'm home and have my books :-)  All right.  Now, think about
an operation to transplant healthy tissue into replace cancerous
tissue.  Major surgery?  In my opinion, yes.  Major surgery in
Traveller costs 1000 Cr X 1D.  So an average of 3000 Cr (MT
Player's Manual).

Let's do something weird and say that on Pallique the surgery is so
common that it cost as much as a minor operation, Ok?  So:  500 Cr
X 1D.  About 1500 Cr average.  Wow!  No price gouging the
prisoners!

Now, if 20 operations are about right for an 'old timer' lets guess
these old-timers are about 60  (I doubt they'd live that long under
the conditions stated, but let's go for it.)  So:  1 operation
every 3 years.  3 Billion population:  1 billion operations per
year.  So *PART* of Pallique's medical budget is 1.5 Trillion
credits per year.  Let's say an additional 200 Cr per person goes
to cancer preventative treatment (It'll save money to prevent
rather than operate).

Total:  2.1 Trillion Credits.  Now that's quite a medical budget.

With that much money floating around, I'd bet some shrewd megacorp
business types with hand computers and pocket protectors are gonna
want in on this business.  How do they get in?  Well, import in the
high tech medical stuff and sell it off.  The higher the technology
it is, the more efficient it is, therefore the greater profit for
the twerps with the pocket protectors.

Suppose you got a cancer cure serum that was less than 1500 cr per
dose.  Say 10 cc's per dose.  Well, if you need 1 billion doses per
year, that works out to 741 shipping tons per year.  Easily handled
by a free trader.  And if the trader made 1 cr profit per dose,
he'd be ROLLING in dough by the end of a year.  :-)

Ok.  Now, let's take a look at it from the Imperial Government
point of view.  3 Billion inhabitants.  And I believe you mentioned
none of them paid taxes?  (According to Trillion Credit Squadron)
In terms of Naval budgets that's 4.5 TRILLION credits that is NOT
going into the Naval coffers.  Is the Navy gonna stand for that?
Is Duke Norris gonna stand for that?  He's the one who's supposed
to be the kind hearted soul.  Is he gonna sit around while those
people are:
1)   Being mistreated
2)   Not paying taxes!!!  :-)
- --
Scott 2G Kellogg
"You'rethemostdangerousmanIevermetandyou'rewacky!" -- Speed Racer



------------------------------

Bundle: 454
Archive-Message-Number: 5389
From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Pallique & TL 14 Medicine
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 93 18:56:03 PDT


> >I don't have my books with me, but if I recall correctly, limb and organ
> >regeneration, cloning et all start out at about TL 9 and are quite
> >available by TL 12.  Pallique is TL 14.
> 
> True. So? Earth is TL8 and there are people eating badly cooked meat
> next to fires and dying of smallpox.

Bad example, Mike.  The World Health Organization declared Smallpox
eradicated in 1977.  However, you can substitute Typhus, Cholera,
Diphtheria, or number of other nasty diseases for the same effect.

As for the rest of the argument, I (of course) agreee with you.
Convincing Scott is another matter all together.

(Both of you: be careful not to tread too deeply into matters medical,
or I'll dive into the fray, and I'll probably drag Eric Sergienko in
with me.) :^)

Later,

        Mark F. Cook

USMail: Hewlett-Packard
        Open Systems Software Division - Corvallis (Tech. Marketing)
        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330

INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com
          markc%hpcvss.cv.hp.com@relay.hp.com

------------------------------

Bundle: 454
Archive-Message-Number: 5390
Date: 	Thu, 15 Apr 1993 23:57:10 -0230
From: Anthony Neal <anthonyn@odie.cs.mun.ca>
Subject: Fusion Drives...

Hello yet again:

	'Tis I, bothering the masses with my questions which everybody
	probably already knows the answers to. Typical. Anyway...

	I recently got my copy of Hard Times. I see they have resurrected
	Fusion Drive Technology. Well, My question is, can you operate a
	Fusion Drive in an atmosphere without doing some major damage to
	the surroundings? Can you actually achieve orbit from surface with
	the things, or is it forbidden to do so? Do you need secondary boosters
	to get to close orbit and then ignite your drives? What's the deal?

								Thanks,
								Anthony

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Anthony Neal                 |"Lets bring up the cargo manifest. 2300 laser 
anthonyn@odie.cs.mun.ca      | pistols, 1600 laser rifles, 1 ATV, 67 suits of
Memorial University Of       | combat armor and...    What the hell are 
Newfoundland                 | 'tribbles'?"
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Bundle: 454
Archive-Message-Number: 5391
From: metlay@netcom.com (metlay)
Subject: Re: More Pallique
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 8:15:05 PDT


>Ok, let's try some back of the envelope calculations here.  (Now

Oh, let's not... *sigh* 

>that I'm home and have my books :-)  All right.  Now, think about
>an operation to transplant healthy tissue into replace cancerous
>tissue.  Major surgery?  In my opinion, yes.  Major surgery in
>Traveller costs 1000 Cr X 1D.  So an average of 3000 Cr (MT
>Player's Manual).
>
>Let's do something weird and say that on Pallique the surgery is so
>common that it cost as much as a minor operation, Ok?  So:  500 Cr
>X 1D.  About 1500 Cr average.  Wow!  No price gouging the
>prisoners!

Nope, more like 300 Cr a pop. Pallique as I run it (note that the
scenario was designed for my campaign, and was originally only
intended for Rob Dean, and if I had known what a headache it would be
explaining my reasoning in terms of the idiotic rules for medical
treatment I never would have posted it to the TML) has very cheap
medicine, primarily because the allowable failure rate is so high.
So cut your number by five.

>Now, if 20 operations are about right for an 'old timer' lets guess

Nope, that's a rare maximum. In 60 years, most people don't need
more than three or four. Say four. That's one per 15 years. Cut
your number by five again.

>.  Let's say an additional 200 Cr per person goes
>to cancer preventative treatment (It'll save money to prevent
>rather than operate).

Try 50. The primary aid of the high TL is in keeping things cheap.
So that's not 2.1 TCr a year, but more like 80 GCr a year, prefectly
manageable by a population that sacrifices most of its income to taxes
(what makes you think that these people don't pay taxes?) and generates
huge income directly into the coffers of Mora and Trin (and indirectly
to Regina, Deneb, and Capital). This may be a lowball number, but the
order of magnitude is about right. Again, this is for MY campaign,
and I had described the world for informational purposes only....

>With that much money floating around, I'd bet some shrewd megacorp
>business types with hand computers and pocket protectors are gonna
>want in on this business.  How do they get in?  Well, import in the
>high tech medical stuff and sell it off.  The higher the technology
>it is, the more efficient it is, therefore the greater profit for
>the twerps with the pocket protectors.

Not allowed. The Trinni and Moran governments restrict trade and 
access to Pallique itself, and are not shy about blowing up smugglers.
(Part of the reason Pallique is Amber is because many shrewd business
types with hand computers and pocket protectors who don't study their
system history carefuly enough end up as expanding clouds of photons
without ever seeing their prospective clients.)

This isn't a profitable, workable system to the economic types out
there. Neither was the Soviet Union under Stalin, but it didn't 
collapse in a puff of logic. And unlike Stalinist Russia, Pallique
is condoned and accepted by its neighbors and has no need for a
large defense outlay... at least it didn't before the Aslan came 
along. |->


- -- 
mike metlay * atomic city * box 81175 pgh pa 15217-0675 * metlay@netcom.com
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll survive. Indeed I will. But boy will I ever be confused.  (s. kellogg)

------------------------------

Bundle: 454
Archive-Message-Number: 5392
Subject: 	Survival Margin/Virus sto
From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: 	Fri, 16 Apr 93 01:40:00 -0500

  O.K., I've picked up Survival Margin.  It makes an interesting
  read, even though most of it is Traveller News Service re-feeds.  
  There's an explanation of how the Regency (the new name for the 
  Domain of Deneb) managed to prevent itself from becoming 
  virus-fodder when almost all of the rest of Charted Space got 
  eaten.  There's a problem with said explanation:

  I'll grant that the routes across the Rift (the Aslan J5 route 
  and the Imperial J6 route using a couple of undocumented fueling 
  stations) could be blocked at their choke points, preventing 
  infection from the main portion of the Aslan Hierate.  I'll even 
  accept that the Regency could choke off traffic coming around the 
  Rift through Corridor sector.  BUT...

  There's no natural barrier like the Rift anywhere coreward of the 
  Imperial/Vargr border.  I would think that, given the fractious 
  nature of Vargr society, it would be in practice impossible to 
  establish a "sterility line" (sealed border) anywhere in the 
  extents.  This requires that the Regency border with the Extents 
  be sterilized.  Which would appear to logically require more man- 
  and ship-power than the Regency could reasonably expect to have 
  available.  

  The Zhodani Consulate has a similar problem.  Worse still, 
  there's no barrier to prevent the virus from making an "end-run" 
  around the entire Consulate, and therefore coming into the states 
  in the sectors spinward of the Regency, _from_ spinward.  Which 
  means that the Zhodani Consulate must seal its borders 
  _all_the_way_around_the_Consulate_.  A massive undertaking, and 
  one that even the Imperium in its heyday probably could not have 
  handled.  

  Similar comments can be made about the Sword Worlds, the Border 
  Worlds, the Darrian Confederation, the Federation of Arden, and 
  the non-aligned worlds in Spinward Marches.  Even if all of these 
  states  engage in _full_ cooperation, there is not going to be 
  sufficient tonnage or crews to seal the borders.  

  Certainly, dropping the transponder systems will help, as will 
  the isolated-computer-for- -communications idea.  But I'm not 
  convinced that these measures would be enough.  Not to mention 
  the time that would be needed to actually implement them in 
  either the Regency or the Zhodani Consulate.

  In short, I don't see that the Spinward States could escape the 
  Virus.  I'm barely willing to accept that the Hive Federation 
  could recover from it in the short order postulated, given the 
  importance that they attach to a uniform gene pool, hence the 
  importance of maintaining some sort of interstellar travel 
  network.  And given the assumed higher level of computer 
  expertise hinted at throughout the published Traveller material 
  since day one of Classic Traveller.  But I don't see the Spinward 
  States escaping it.  The best I can see is that it would hit them 
  later than it would the rest of the Imperium, so they wouldn't 
  have fallen as far.  But the same statement could be made about 
  the K'kree (who were trashed by the Virus, by implication), or 
  about the Aslan (who are explicitly noted as not having the 
  uniformity of computer systems that the Imperium, the Vargr 
  Extents, the Hivers, and the K'kree all allegedly had).

  Comments, anyone?  More info, Loren?
==========================================================================
Jeff Zeitlin                                      jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com

 * QMPro 1.01   * My GOD!  You mean Dulinor actually RELEASED Windows?

------------------------------

Bundle: 454
Archive-Message-Number: 5393
Date: 17 Apr 1993 15:22:52 -0500
From: SULAIMAN@ecs.umass.edu
Subject: Traveller stuff auction.

Hi,
There is an auction going on regarding Classic Traveller material.
Please check on rec.games.frp.marketplace for current update or
e-mail to:
 sulaiman@ecs.umass.edu

Now back to the regularly scheduled TML stuff

Ameer

------------------------------

Bundle: 454
Archive-Message-Number: 5394
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1993 22:13:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Edward Moore <deathmaster+@cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Pallique & TL 14 Medicine

metlay@netcom.com (metlay) writes:
> *BZZZT* Got yerself here, kiddo. You're applying TL7-8 costs and 
> science to the economics of transplants. I would argue that when and
> if the human race licks AIDS, it will have invented drugs that will
> LAUGH at tissue rejection, or at least be well on the way to that
> point. You won't even need sterility in some cases; gangrene and
> peritonitis will be as common then as bubonic plague is now.
> 
> >As to the cause of this mess:  radiation induced cancer...

*BZZZT* Got yerself here, kiddo.  If you are that good with playing
games with the immune system, getting the body to reject tumors can't
be that difficult. 

	-Love, Kisses, and a Neutron Bomb
		-Eric the Finn

------------------------------

Bundle: 454
Archive-Message-Number: 5395
Date: 18 Apr 93 13:55:00 EST
From: "CMD ENS ERIC M. SERGIENKO" <S94SERGIENKO@usuhsb.ucc.usuhs.nnmc.navy.mil>
Subject: Pallique & TL 14 Medicine (why ask why?)

Mark Cook says: 
>As for the rest of the argument, I (of course) agreee with you.
>Convincing Scott is another matter all together.

Scott, of course, is the TML equivalent of a pitbull with lockjaw.
 
>(Both of you: be careful not to tread too deeply into matters medical,
>or I'll dive into the fray, and I'll probably drag Eric Sergienko in
>with me.) :^)
 
Too late, both of them have been cc'ing me their discussion :-).  

I think the bottom line of this discussion, is that it's Mike's world 
and he is going to do what he damn well pleases. 

That said, I agree with Michael based on sociological/gaming reasons.  
There would be nothing more terrifying than to know you could end up as 
pieces-parts if you screw up.  So, it could be an interesting place 
to _roleplay_.  I was always enamored of Niven, anyway.

However, medically and economically, I would choose to disagree with you both.
So there, HAH :-)!  Last time you use "appeal to authority" as an argument.

By TL 14 you'll be growing your own replacements.  And prevention is always the 
cheapest option.

Mike argues that by the time the situation in Pallique exists that a drug 
will exist that will "laugh at tissue rejection".  Probably, but it would 
have to be able to do so on a selective basis.  Tissue rejection works 
because of antigen-antibody reactions, the same reactions that protect 
your body from disease.  Current drugs work by suppressing this interaction.  
By laughing at tissue rejection, you could be dying with the common cold.  

Scott says let's grow tissue in vats.  The question arises, how do you 
customize the organ to the body in question?  Presumably, the vat/tissue 
culture knows how to control the growth when given direction.  Again 
possible, and probably more likely than an immunosuppressive drug with 
a high specificity.  

My proposal would be contolled growth of normal tissue by the person 
requiring the organ/appendage.  It requires knowing how cells reproduce 
and differentiate, and controlling this.  However, with our current
understanding of tumor cells, this should be within the next 50 years.
Give the patient a shot, he grows an arm, no chance of rejection, and 
it's his,  same architecture as the original.  Ditto for internal organs.

However, talk of organ replacement is kind of silly for problems like 
hepatitis or cancer.  Medicine at TL14 is working at the cellular level to 
repair problems before they happen.  You would go in for a yearly tune-up
as well as your check up.  For trauma, well, take your pick of homegrown,
vat grown, amputated or prothestic.  It's your game :-).

ttfn,
eric


------------------------------

Bundle: 454
Archive-Message-Number: 5396
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 93 15:02 GMT
From: PAVEWAY <BSP054@BANGOR.AC.UK>
Subject: A song and a query

Ok here is the song.... to the tune of the Queensryche song "Revolution
Calling" off of the Operation mindcrime album

	For a Price I'd Play about anything
	Except 2300
	For that I'd need a pretty good cause
	Then I heard of Loren Wiseman
	The man with the cure
	Just read the Travellers journal
	You'll see there's something going on

	Got no love for the rebellion
	All that crazy scene in MT
	It's just getting me down
	But the time is ripe for changes
	There's a growing feeling
	Taking a chance on a new edition is due

	I used to trust G.D.W. to tell us the truth
	Tell us the truth....
	But now I see the payoffs everywhere I look
	Who do you trust when everyone's a crook?
Chorus*
	Revision fever calling - revision fever calling
	Revision fever calling you
	Revision fever calling - revision fever calling
	Gotta make a change, gotta push
	Gotta push it on through
	*


	Well I'm tired of all this Bull---t
	Challenge is selling me 'bout the Cymbeline Plan
	All the games designers beggin' for my cash
	Swiss bank accounts while giving game players the Slam
	They're all in challenge now
	Or traveller magazines
	Million dollar products to sell
	Guess my party was wrong 
	This game should be 15 minutes long!
	Everybody's using, everybody's making the sale
	I used to think that only G.D.W.'s way, way was right
	But now the holy dollar rules everybody's lives
	Gotta make a million who dies.. 
		-chorus-

The Query
	Not having my ref's manual to hand I was wondering if Anti matter plants
show up on neutrino sensors and if so whether to a greater or lesser degree than
other plant types.
	Also any one know what symbol you'd use to represent an anti matter 
hazard (like the HAZ_CHEM symbols in use now)?
thanks
	Paveway



------------------------------

Bundle: 454
Archive-Message-Number: 5397
From: skellogg@lonestar.utsa.edu (Scott S. Kellogg)
Subject: RE: Pallique & TL 14 Medicine (Not again... :-P)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 93 12:30:11 CDT

Counter battery fire!
Sandcasters:  Weapons Free!

Mark Cook quips:
>As for the rest of the argument, I (of course) agreee with you.
>Convincing Scott is another matter all together.

Of course...  :-P    V!

To which Eric S. adds:
> Scott, of course, is the TML equivalent of a pitbull with lockjaw.

Smilie when you say that, son.  :-)   V!

> I think the bottom line of this discussion, is that it's Mike's world
> and he is going to do what he damn well pleases.

As I already said to Mike, this is true.

> My proposal would be contolled growth of normal tissue by the person
> requiring the organ/appendage.  It requires knowing how cells reproduce
> and differentiate, and controlling this.  However, with our current
> understanding of tumor cells, this should be within the next 50 years.
> Give the patient a shot, he grows an arm, no chance of rejection, and
> it's his, same architecture as the original.  Ditto for internal organs.

That's true.  And would work for non vital organs.  But remember, we're
talking about how to do it as cheaply as possible.  Now, if I read Mike's
planet correctly, replacing NON-vital organs would be quite a luxury.
You don't NEED a leg to survive.  You don't need BOTH kidneys to survive.
If you can do without said organ, you're just gonna lose it on Pallique
and hobble through life known from now on as "Peg".
(Margret is probably a common name there...  :-)

Well, the only time they ARE gonna give you that surgery would then be
when it IS that single vital organ that's got the cancer.  Correct?  But
you don't run around for long with no liver even if one *IS* starting to
grow.  In such cases you are gonna either need to pull an organ out
of someone, or pull it out of a vat, or go on (expensive) life support
equipment until such time as your own liver can handle it's appointed
task.

Thus, I think your solution is not the cheapest given the circumstances
given in Metlay's ground rules for the world.  Homegrown stuff is just
not gonna be an option.  If you need it, you'll need it faster than
you can grow it  And if you don't need it....  As John Lennon said in
_Help!_ while brandishing a saw, "You haven't used that finger in the
last hour!"

> However, talk of organ replacement is kind of silly for problems like
> hepatitis or cancer.  Medicine at TL14 is working at the cellular level to
> repair problems before they happen.

As Mike said early on, Pallique's TL is not 14 in regard to medicine.
That's one of the things you have to swallow to get this world to work.
- --
Scott 2G Kellogg
Too much talk
And not enough action
Do you know anybody gettin' satisfaction?
Everybody's wondrin' `bout the crowd's reaction
And the world gets better by a VERY small fraction...     --  Paul Revere


------------------------------

Bundle: 454
Archive-Message-Number: 5398
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 93 12:15:07 -0700
From: brianm@ivy.isc.com (Brian Makens)
Subject: You are invited to a wake.....

WARNING there are possible spoilers from Survial Margin below in this major
rant about the "New Era"

Today the 16th of April, 1993 (Solomani Reckoning), I realized I lost an old
friend that I had known since walking into a Gamekeeper twelve years ago and
picking up a little black box with red lettering on it.

Now, I had been willing to cut GDW some slack on this virus thing, after all
what is the universe but a little bad science fiction gone factual, but a
major essence of why I bought Traveller products all these years went a
wimpering poof when I bought Survival Margin today. Traveller, meant more
than a new set of rules to build starships and create funny codes to build
worlds and npc's. It meant more than rules for personal combat from banging
the foul bastard on the head with the club to vaporizing the little snitch
with an FGMP-13. The Traveller Universe was a socio-political/ technical
vision of a complex society in an Intersteller era. There was ability to
imagine oneself as the crafty free trader sneaking off with the lucrutive
gems that you bartered off that barbarian leader, before the Tukera Lines
exploration division captain even noticed this new world.  It was the
Passenger liner steward thwarting the hijacking of the Empress Arbatella on
the Vland to Capital run. It was the being the fanatical SOLSEC agent,
evading Imperial Intelligence on Terra, carrying the explosives and cash for
the resistance's next terrorist strike. It was the Aslan of honor, travelling
through the slime of Startown, to fullfill the Clan leaders plans. It was
being the Commander of a Strike Cruiser on a deep raid into Zhodani Space.
Traveller, was the struggle of extraordinary characters trying to survive and
prosper, while competing  steller empires of different species, cultures and
political idealogies vyed for supremecy in the game of princes. Traveller was
the "Sun never sets on the Third Imperium" or "the Solomani Manifest Destiny
is inevitable", it was the Freighter Captain who undocked  his subsidized
merchant secure in the knowledge that the Navy was on patrol and therefore
trade was safe and could be profitable.

Then came MegaTraveller with the Final War, life wasn't so safe in some
areas, but there was High Drama. You had the clash of new and old empires,
there were still safe area's where the old crafty merchant could still
maneuver his Type A free trader to profit and glory.

Now comes this bloody virus and Survival Margin. Gone is the complex
socio-political/technical environment. Gone are the mighty stellar empires,
Gone is the Merchant Captain of a free trader who crossed the breath of the
Third Imperium for the almighty Imperial Credit. Friends, we have gone from
the struggle of Rome and Carthage straight into the Dark Ages where Hanfred
the Drunk hacks off a peasants head to steal 4 cows.  From having an NPC who
broke into the Imperial Research Center to steal a warbot prototype, we now
will have a cold yokel backwater peasant whose big worry is who is molesting
his wildesheep.

We have a choice of being a fraidy-cat Zhodani dominated inhabitant of the
Regency, a merciless snatcher of chickens from this Star Viking Reformation
whatever it is,  an uneducated barbaric feudal lord or his wretched peasant
from  your choice of the former ...Imperium, Aslan Hierate or Solmani
Confederation.

Gone is the reason to run to the Game Store and get the latest copy of
Challenge or TAS to read the latest from Traveller News Service. Who cares
about whether some poor tech level 4 farmer on Dlan is blown away by a space
viking looking for a replacement Pfaucet for his wife's budoir back home. The
drama is gone. This plot made for a darn good H. Beam Piper novel, but it is
not the gist of a long campaign, it is not a reason to read the TNS(or
whatever it becomes).

Just how many campaigns can you run with the Space viking sacking the tech 4
underpopulated world. (OH this is Tuesday, lets go get that bidet on Sirius
4). Just how exciting is it going to be, to play the Brave Denebian Regency
naval Captain blowing away some bandaged 100 year old space hulk carrying
some wretched better life seeking denizens of the "wilds" who just might have
the a copy of "The Virus" onboard. Pfffooof!!!! This is a universe for a
couple of 14 year kids to play a couple of of rounds with, as a break from
AD&D. With all this low tech bang the guy on the head with a claymore sword,
going on maybe we can merge the systems). Yeah, thats the ticket.. the low
tech peaseants on Home mutated in 75 years and became ORC's, the ones on
Gushmege KOBOLDS.. Yeah thats the ticket, who needs Spelljammer, we got
TRAVELLER the New Era.

I recommend that if you have views like me, you'll make a new universe to
play and dream in.

Maybe, just maybe, I'll have Grandfather take a good hard look at the
universe, go grab a spare empty 20000 or so worlds from an unused galaxy,
enclose them in a pocket universe, and clone everybody in the GDW universe.
Then he is going to invite Strephon to a bar on Gushmege. He is going to pour
him a drink of "Old Grandad", tell him to get a grip on himself, become a
true emperor, and go out and save the empire, civilization and a damn good
campaign universe. That merchant captain out of Vland is counting on him.
Maybe, one last Black strike on a small area of Illinois, North America,
Solomani liberated Terra might still hold back the destruction.

As it stands now, the Zhodani won as the last LARGE Human Civilization.

To the late Major Virgisskiai
   3rd Brigade of the 13425 Jump Infantry Division, Imperial Army

   The sacrifice of you and your men who made up the forlorn hope raiding
party that hit that Zhondani Supply grav tank supply depot at Chronor was in
vain. The cause you died for, the way of life, your childrens future, was
sacrificed so that some 14 year old kid can buy a couple of modules of a low
tech AD&D space substitute. Your orphaned children will become peasants. The
Zhodani will dominate human civilization, the non-psionic will be slaves to
the psionic.  You wasted your life, instead of fighting and dying in the 5th
Frontier war, you should have stayed home on Vland and enjoyed the last good
years with the wife and kids.  All of us, mature traveller fans of more than
a decade, raise a glass of thanks to you and your kind..You were
extraordinary....

					With Deepest Regret
					Brian Makens


P.S:
SolSec Agent on Home:

ARGH!!!!! Just when that Solomani Party Bigwig Cental Commitee member had
brought his green-haired mistress, a vorashian flying tuber, six gallons
of vilani love oil and a trombone into the bedroom, the <bleeped>
evesdropping computer video console started spewing

      PPKKUU.....ERRY&&@@,..-==2o23r66YYYY((((00222011Kie

Why do things have to screw up, just when things are getting good!!!








































































------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Sun May  2 22:00:01 EDT 1993
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #455: Msgs 5399-5419 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Sun May  2 22:00:01 EDT 1993
Reply-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun May  2 22:00:01 EDT 1993
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #455: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 455  5399 19-Apr-1993 Stephen Camp     Re:  You are invited to a wake..... << 
 455  5400 20-Apr-1993 u9019138@athmai  Not goodbye but Au Revoir << The Old Wa
 455  5401 20-Apr-1993 Goldman of Chao  The wake. << Brian Makens said the foll
 455  5402 20-Apr-1993 JNCHIGGIN@delph  "Survival Margin" <<  Well, I just got 
 455  5403 21-Apr-1993 u9019138@athmai  TNE/GDW House Rules << To offset the oc
 455  5404 22-Apr-1993 Stewart Eyres    Anti-matter << HI,
 455  5405 22-Apr-1993 rancke@diku.dk   Surviving the Virus << Jeff Zeitlin wri
 455  5406 23-Apr-1993 "Abandon all ho  Ship-to-ship combat... << I've tried...
 455  5407 23-Apr-1993 Robert S. Dean   TNE << I should have mentioned this bef
 455  5408 18-Apr-1993 Sean Maguire     Pallique II - This time he's not happy 
 455  5409 24-Apr-1993 Scott S. Kellog  Saving the Domain from the Virus << How
 455  5410 24-Apr-1993 Derek Wildstar   MegaTraveller Journal #4 is OUT! << Sin
 455  5411 23-Apr-1993 Jeff Zeitlin     Virus problems        2/2 << (Continued
 455  5412 23-Apr-1993 Jeff Zeitlin     Virus problems        1/2 <<   The info
 455  5413 25-Apr-1993 Derek Wildstar   Re:  Sent out .... One (sorry) << There
 455  5414 25-Apr-1993 SULAIMAN@ecs.um  DGP MegaTraveller Journal 4 << Hi folks
 455  5415 26-Apr-1993 Richard Johnson  Viral Thoughts << If *The Virus* (tm) c
 455  5416 26-Apr-1993 Brent Irvine     Virus << Hello all!  I decided to put m
 455  5417 27-Apr-1993 Sean Maguire     Challenge Writer Subscriptions << A cou
 455  5418 26-Apr-1993 Brent Irvine     TNE Virus invades carbon-based lifeform
 455  5419 27-Apr-1993 Stewart Eyres    Megatraveller ship-to-ship combat << Me

------------------------------

Bundle: 455
Archive-Message-Number: 5399
From: hobbes@spacemanspiff.den.mmc.com (Stephen Camp)
Subject: Re:  You are invited to a wake.....
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1993 22:01:57 -0700 (MDT)

Brian Makens mourns:

[big snip]

> Now comes this bloody virus and Survival Margin. Gone is the complex
> socio-political/technical environment. Gone are the mighty stellar empires,
> Gone is the Merchant Captain of a free trader who crossed the breath of the
> Third Imperium for the almighty Imperial Credit. Friends, we have gone from
> the struggle of Rome and Carthage straight into the Dark Ages where Hanfred
> the Drunk hacks off a peasants head to steal 4 cows.  From having an NPC who
> broke into the Imperial Research Center to steal a warbot prototype, we now
> will have a cold yokel backwater peasant whose big worry is who is molesting
> his wildesheep.

[snip]

> Just how many campaigns can you run with the Space viking sacking the tech 4
> underpopulated world. (OH this is Tuesday, lets go get that bidet on Sirius
> 4). Just how exciting is it going to be, to play the Brave Denebian Regency
> naval Captain blowing away some bandaged 100 year old space hulk carrying
> some wretched better life seeking denizens of the "wilds" who just might have
> the a copy of "The Virus" onboard. Pfffooof!!!! This is a universe for a
> couple of 14 year kids to play a couple of of rounds with, as a break from
> AD&D. With all this low tech bang the guy on the head with a claymore sword,
> going on maybe we can merge the systems). Yeah, thats the ticket.. the low
> tech peaseants on Home mutated in 75 years and became ORC's, the ones on
> Gushmege KOBOLDS.. Yeah thats the ticket, who needs Spelljammer, we got
> TRAVELLER the New Era.

PLUS, with GDW's 'house rules' combat system, you get to hack to your 
heart's content!  Hey, this is great!  Combat is great!  Let's fight!
Nah! You can't get hurt!  That guy's gonna have tuh shoot ya AT LEAST
4 times _just_ to knock your guy down!  So who cares about negotiating or
leaving fighting as the last resort!  HACKFEST! shoot, hack to your
heart's content.  ;-)

Well, I suppose GDW could fix those assinine T:2K combat house rules...
Oh! Sorry, just dreaming... ;-)


> I recommend that if you have views like me, you'll make a new universe to
> play and dream in.

Gee, mabye we're gonna have tuh dust off those TDR archives... TDR II: The
Proper Era... 


;-)

steve camp


------------------------------

Bundle: 455
Archive-Message-Number: 5400
From: u9019138@athmail1.causeway.qub.ac.uk
Subject: Not goodbye but Au Revoir
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 93 13:48:41 BST

The Old Ways are not necessarily gone.

There's just been a system change.

You still have all of that old pre-rebellion and rebellion stuff.
Noone says you have to move on to new times and new faces. With the
new system you can redesign aliens to contact who use stutterwarps
or stargates instead of jump drives..you can play on in the
magnificence of the Empire..using the new system ...and may I note,
stealing liberally from Twilight and Dark Conspiracy...can you say
organic brain computers...and aliens from another world.

Smile and Persevere. Your world is what you make it.

Sincerely,

Matt.
u9019138@athmail1.causeway.qub.ac.uk

P.S. If anyone has the TNE stuff that was posted on the list a few
months back (before I was on), could they send me a copy. Also our
games shop hasn't got any new traveller stuff...I had to mailorder
Arrival Vengeance....etc...bah humbug.

------------------------------

Bundle: 455
Archive-Message-Number: 5401
Subject: The wake.
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 93 14:07:48 CDT
From: goldman@orac.cray.com (Goldman of Chaos -- postmaster CRI-US)
Reply-To: goldman@orac.cray.com

Brian Makens said the following:
> Bundle: 454
> Archive-Message-Number: 5398
> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 93 12:15:07 -0700
> From: brianm@ivy.isc.com (Brian Makens)
> Subject: You are invited to a wake.....
> 
> I recommend that if you have views like me, you'll make a new universe to
> play and dream in.

TNE makes a wonderful shadow for my Amber players who are trying to
find Brand's pattern.

> Maybe, just maybe, I'll have Grandfather take a good hard look at the
> universe, go grab a spare empty 20000 or so worlds from an unused galaxy,
> enclose them in a pocket universe, and clone everybody in the GDW universe.
> Then he is going to invite Strephon to a bar on Gushmege. He is going to pour
> him a drink of "Old Grandad", tell him to get a grip on himself, become a
> true emperor, and go out and save the empire, civilization and a damn good
> campaign universe. That merchant captain out of Vland is counting on him.
> Maybe, one last Black strike on a small area of Illinois, North America,
> Solomani liberated Terra might still hold back the destruction.

Keep repeating after me, "Strephon is still the Emperor.  The Imperium
never fell.  The virus never was released.  GDW needs to spend some
time in a sanitarium."

I've been busily buying up every bit of real Traveller.  There is a
lot of neat stuff that was published.  I also have lots and lots of
stuff that I wrote up on my own.  Just because GDW doesn't support
Real Traveller doesn't mean that we can't.

Matt 


------------------------------

Bundle: 455
Archive-Message-Number: 5402
Date: 20 Apr 1993 21:33:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: JNCHIGGIN@delphi.com
Subject: "Survival Margin"


	Well, I just got ahold of Survival Margin.  Fascinating.  Really. 
Also the first piece GDW has done in a long time that I can unreservedly
give a "Two thumbs up" to.  If for no other reason than Strephon's
private journal entries, both before and after the beginning of the
Rebellion.  The questions it raises are intriguing, to say the least.
	Plus, of course, the revalations about Norris's Seneschal...Could he
have been running things all these years?  Or is the Conventional Wisdom
of 1201 correct?  Noone will ever know, I suppose, unless someone does a
"The Empire Never Fell" Sourcebook, and explores the question...
	Plus, it doesn't really deal with the holes in Hard Times, though it
plugs a few of them by implication....
	Loren, you can tell Dave that at least one TMLer approved of SM
wholeheartedly.

						---Steve Higginbotham

------------------------------

Bundle: 455
Archive-Message-Number: 5403
From: u9019138@athmail1.causeway.qub.ac.uk
Subject: TNE/GDW House Rules
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 93 11:59:25 BST

To offset the occurence in one of our Twilight games..where a
character ran a gauntlet of machineguns and survived by the rulkes
but I killed him anyway cos thats what reality told me to do. I made
the following rule changes which therfore apply to TNE and Dark
Conspiracy

Halve all Hit points in locations.

Damage is rated in D10 not d6

That settled the problem with reality.
And I let the player off...well i do have a heart of gold after all.

resurrecting Traveller
 (by ignoring Megatraveller and TNE)

Difficult at best especially whrn noone in the universe has a
complete set of the books...well noone I know at any rate..and I
have been around for oh about 20 years.

Ho Hum

Matt.
a/k/a
Tali Lithan
Survivor of the War
Solomani Security
"Paving the Way for Humaniti"

------------------------------

Bundle: 455
Archive-Message-Number: 5404
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1993 09:18:53 +0100 (BST)
From: Stewart Eyres <spe@jb.man.ac.uk>
Subject: Anti-matter

HI,
	The particle physics experiments at places like CERN and LEP are
all about hitting matter with anti-matter, and the people there are
actively looking for neutrinos of one form or another.  Thus anti-matter
powerplants certainly have a neutrino signature.  In addition, it is
possible that the signature would be higher than for fusion producing the
same power, although I'm not sure enough of the physics to say for sure.

Stewart							spe@jb.man.ac.uk



------------------------------

Bundle: 455
Archive-Message-Number: 5405
From: rancke@diku.dk
Subject: Surviving the Virus
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1993 23:24:22 +0100 (METDST)

Jeff Zeitlin writes:

[A lot of good arguments about how the Regency and the Zhodani and
all the other spinward nations couldn't avoid being infected by the
virus.]

I agree completely. But that's not a permissible answer. The problem
becomes to explain how the spinward nations avoided getting infected.
I combine that with the fact that they haven't repopulated the 
rest of Charted Space in the 70 years since the Crash and conclude
that they _didn't_ avoid getting infected. But they avoided getting
destroyed by it. They managed to contain the infections and minimize
the effects. And when I say minimize that means that they have been
running a Red Queen's Race for the last 70 years and _still_ haven't
defeated the virus. Only contained it. 


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "Domain of Deneb goes off the air immediately.
         We keep the flame. Good luck."


------------------------------

Bundle: 455
Archive-Message-Number: 5406
Date: 23 Apr 1993 09:29:56 -0500 (EST)
From: "Abandon all hope ye who enter here." <STU_RWMORRIS@VAX1.ACS.JMU.EDU>
Subject: Ship-to-ship combat...

I've tried...and failed.

I cannot, for the life of me, figure out the ship-to-ship combat rules for
Traveller.  I own the MegaTraveller boxed set and many of the supplements, but
the ship-to-ship combat rules elude me.  If someone could send me an example
of ship-to-ship combat or even jump on IRC with me and tell me about it, I 
would most appreciate it.

Lucifer >:} who hates looking in 20 different places in four books for his 
s2s combat rules

------------------------------

Bundle: 455
Archive-Message-Number: 5407
Date:     Fri, 23 Apr 93 10:59:50 EDT
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@cbda8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  TNE

I should have mentioned this before, but there was a note from Loren Wiseman 
on GEnie last week, saying that TNE is now on its way to the printer.

Rob


------------------------------

Bundle: 455
Archive-Message-Number: 5408
From: Sean Maguire <smaguire@mihi.une.edu.au>
Subject: Pallique II - This time he's not happy
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 93 15:18:50 GMT-10:00


Hey Guys

	Leave the dudes campaign alone - 'It's his campaign, he can
	cry if he wants too' . 

    	Personally I was going to use it (well eventualy) . 

	Remember boys and girls, in World Builders Handbook, technology
	could be lower in some areas than others . (Gee I hope I didn't
	open myself up for a flame there . . . )

	Well thats my 0.02 $, this is Kent Brockman signing off !

	Edmund (C/O Sean Maguire)



------------------------------

Bundle: 455
Archive-Message-Number: 5409
From: skellogg@lonestar.utsa.edu (Scott S. Kellogg)
Subject: Saving the Domain from the Virus
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 93 9:25:23 CDT

Howdy,

Hans asked how it is we can consider the Domain & the Consulate
from the Virus.   Well, the answer seems quite clear to me.  What is
it that exists almost completely in and around the Spinward Marches?

Well, for one thing, the Consulate contains 99.9% of all the psi
institutes in the entire Traveller Universe.  Remember, they got
psi institutes on EVERY planet.  Not just on die rolls of >11.

What about in the core?  Any psi's there?  No... Not many...
Obviously, Lucan's scientists never really put any psionic
countermeasures into the Virus.

The Zho's discovered how to deal with it and didn't want any virus
ravaged states right on their borders, so they helped out the Domain,
and the surrounding Vargr states.  My guess would be that the Consulate
would rather see the Darrains fold up shop, but that the Domain gave the
Darrians the assistance they needed.

Seems sensible to me, given the outcome that we want:  The Spinward
Marches Gvurrdon, and the Consulate all intact.

Any bets on how it will really work out?
- --
Scott 2G Kellogg
Picture a vargr version of Speed Racer with a guitar...


------------------------------

Bundle: 455
Archive-Message-Number: 5410
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 93 22:08:17 EDT
From: wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu (Derek Wildstar)
Subject: MegaTraveller Journal #4 is OUT!


Since I don't remember having seen anybody mention it yet, I thought I
would give all of you a heads up!  MegaTraveller Journal #4 (with the
Lords of Thunder in it) is now available!  I picked up a copy at Dream
Wizards here in Rockville today (4/24).  It's pretty bnig ... over 100
pages!

wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                 Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                         in the Far Future


------------------------------

Bundle: 455
Archive-Message-Number: 5411
Subject: Virus problems        2/2
From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 93 18:43:00 -0500

(Continued from previous message)

  Regency-Vargr border must be protected.  Even if some or most of 
  the Vargr states in the area adjacent to the Regency act in 
  concert with the Regency, this actually increases the number of 
  systems that must be blockaded.  And such cooperation can not be 
  counted on, due to the fractious nature of Vargr society.  This 
  means that the Zhodani Consulate must also blockade _its_ borders 
  with the Vargr Extents.  That alone will be a major undertaking, 
  and it is unlikely that the Zhodani (or any interstellar state) 
  would have the manpower and ship power to create a blockade on 
  this great a scale.  The matter is further complicated by the 
  fact that we cannot logically assume that population and travel 
  stop at the coreward extremes of either the Vargr Extents or the 
  Zhodani Consulate.  This means that there is a high likelihood of 
  the Virus being able to make an "end run" around the Zhodani 
  Blockade.  Which means that the Zhodani must blockade their 
  _entire_ border, all the way around, to prevent the Virus from 
  entering from Coreward, then Spinward, then Rimward (the Vargr 
  blockade was already discussed; that is the prevention from 
  Trailing).  It also means that the Regency and the small states 
  in the area must also be prepared to blockade the spinward area, 
  as well.  The area from the spinwardmost point of the Zhodani 
  Consulate all the way down to the Great Rift shows various human 
  and Aslan states, and possibly some alien states as well.  This 
  covers an area that appears to be _at_least_ as large as the 
  Third Imperium at its greatest extent.  Could even the Third 
  Imperium have blockaded its own borders in their entirety?

  I would like to see an alternative history which did not involve 
  the Virus; I feel that the Virus did _too_ much damage to the 
  former Imperial area.  I very much like the idea of the 
  shattering of the Imperium; it allows for much more variety in  
  play.  The idea of allowing a retrogression is also appealing; it  
  gives a frontier feeling to the environment, and the creation of 
  the smaller polities (and to a lesser degree the faction "safes") 
  gives a feeling, even in the "core" worlds, that the frontier 
  isn't all that far away, and that a certain kind of toughness is 
  needed - an attitude which will "infect" almost everyone.  Trade 
  is reduced, but still present, and with _more_ opportunity for 
  the independent entrepreneur (and more risk to go with it, but... 
  that's why the major companies pulled back, remember?), for both 
  goods (obtained either legally or illegally) and services (to 
  protect ships and systems from the latter).  Certainly, some 
  "Wilds" can be accommodated, for the GM who likes the bootstrap 
  campaign, as well.

  With such an alternate history in mind, I would be willing to 
  work with others on this, either here or on another list (with 
  summaries posted here).  If we elect to go to another list, I 
  cannot manage it; I am on a DOS-based BBS with none of the fancy 
  stuff for news handling that most other Internet sites have.

  If there isn't interest in such a project, I'll try to work out 
  one on my own, and post the pertinent information in the form of 
  "TNS news stories", "magazine articles", "personal diary 
  entries", and straight out "referee's information".
==========================================================================
Jeff Zeitlin                                      jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com

 * QMPro 1.01   * People who live in glass houses shouldn't.

------------------------------

Bundle: 455
Archive-Message-Number: 5412
Subject: Virus problems        1/2
From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 93 18:43:00 -0500

  The information in this post may be considered spoiler information
  for Survival Margin, and therefore for the Traveller: The New Era 
  background.  However, I feel that the virus story as given in 
  Survival Margin has some deficiencies, and I would like to point 
  them out.

  First, there is the problem of the spread of the Virus.  As 
  written, the Virus is capable of infecting any computer, without 
  exception; some computers will take longer than others, due to 
  the Virus being unfamiliar with the operating system of the 
  target.  There is a fundamental problem with this scenario:  The 
  design of any computer program implies some distinction between 
  program code and data.  Even current object-oriented theory still 
  has this distinction - the concept of the "method" is simply the 
  "code" portion associated with the data in a special way.  But 
  for efficiency reasons, even in an object-oriented paradigm, 
  implementations only keep one copy of the code associated with 
  all instances of a given object type.  This implementation 
  decision will logically extend to the exchange of information 
  between computers - if the target computer knows about a specific 
  kind of object, there will be no need to transmit the code, only 
  the data.  Properly designed programs (and bear in mind, the 
  Third Imperium has 2500 more years of experience than we do to 
  draw on, even if the only experience drawn on is the Solomani 
  experience) will still have a definite separation between code 
  and data; thus, while the viral code could be transmitted (or  
  downloaded, as the Coronation Fleet did at Omicron) from one  
  system to another, it would be unlikely that the code would be 
  executed without question on the target system.  Further, common 
  sense says that unknown code, if it is executed at all, should be  
  executed on a "sterile" and "silent" system - by which I mean  
  that the system should (a) be known to be clean, with a fixed  
  environment of exactly known characteristics (meaning not  
  containing an independently intelligent chip), and (b) not be in  
  communication or sharing resources with any system that, if shut 
  down or damaged, would be a major problem due to external effects  
  (starship control computers do not qualify as "silent" under this 
  definition).

  Second, there is the method of self-preservation in an infected 
  system.  The Survival Margin data indicates that the virus 
  modifies the target system hardware to "hard wire" itself into 
  the system, and avoid destruction if the host is powered down.  
  This requires that every computer be in essence a PROM burner, 
  and that every microcircuit and/or chip be in essence a PROM.  I 
  consider this highly unlikely, as most computers, once designed 
  for a purpose, are not likely to be modified at the hardware 
  level.  In most cases, it will be possible to implement changes 
  as software changes, especially in multifunction computers.  Even 
  given that the Cymbeline chips can themselves function as PROM 
  burners, this is still going to be a hardware-based function, 
  rather than purely software.  Hence, logically, no computer can 
  be infected permanently - especially if "system floppies" or the 
  equivalent are available.  Which they should be, at all times, in 
  case of need.  Not to mention the prudent practice of regular 
  backups...

  Third, there is the matter of the Regency and Spinward States 
  protecting themselves.  Given the limits to the speed of travel, 
  there is no reasonable way that the Regency could have avoided 
  infection, even if we assume that the virus story told by 
  "refugees" was assumed to be true in every particular, and that 
  everyone in the Regency immediately and unquestioningly obeyed 
  the orders concerning the changes in communications equipment and 
  procedures.  There is also the further assumption that Spinward 
  States that were in suspicious or hostile relationships with the 
  Regency (Zhodani, Sword Worlds, ihatei fleets) nevertheless 
  immediately accepted at face value the statements made to them 
  concerning the Virus and the actions to take.  Since the Virus 
  spread at the maximum speed possible (geometric curve of number 
  of ships infected, plus speed of travel and communication 
  limited), it is almost inevitable that the Virus would arrive 
  either with the refugees reporting it, or so soon thereafter that 
  the Regency and the Spinward States would not have had time to 
  take action.  This last problem can be bypassed if we assume that 
  either the conspirator who was assigned to relay the information 
  to the Regency was not killed (though he was thought to be) and 
  hence made it through and delivered his message, or that he had a 
  reliable and credible assistant, who delivered the message in his 
  stead, without being noticed by Lucan's secret police.  In either 
  case, the warning would reach the Regency at just about the time 
  that the Virus was first released by Dulinor's raid.

  Fourth, there is the impossibility of blockading the Regency and 
  the Spinward States.  Grant, for the purposes of discussion, that 
  the infection of "foreign" systems will be slower than the 
  infection of known systems.  Grant further that the Regency and 
  the Spinward States act in concert to block travel across the 
  limited routes across the Great Rift.  The problem now becomes 
  preventing the spread of the Virus into the Regency and Spinward 
  States by going around the Rift, through Vland and Corridor 
  sectors, _and_the_sectors_to_coreward_.  Certainly, it would take 
  a sizeable fleet to blockade the Regency in the Corridor 
  approaches.  But that ignores the fact that the Virus is also 
  spreading through the Vargr Extents.  This means that the entire 

(Continued to next message)

------------------------------

Bundle: 455
Archive-Message-Number: 5413
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 93 11:08:05 EDT
From: wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu (Derek Wildstar)
Subject: Re:  Sent out .... One (sorry)

Theresa Verity writes: 
>    Anyway (sorting through all the mail I've been missing), I saw that
> MegaTraveller's Journal #4 is out (is it still $12.95?).  Who is print-
> ing it, DPG?  If so, I thought that DGP was fairly upset with GDW for
> changing Traveller again and refused to support TNE...  Maybe they
> changed their minds...  I hope so, MJ was a good mag and I loved their
> aliens modules (I wonder if they might consider printing vols 3 and 4).

MTJ#4 is a DGP publication.  According to the editoral (by Joe Fugate)
it is the last Traveller publication that DGP will produce.  I got the
impression that they (DGP) didn't like the New Era, and intended to
concentrate on AI (which is in the playtest stage).

Joe specifically mentioned the MegaTraveller Alien series, and said that
the remaining volumes will NOT be produced.

DGP will be spending it's full time and money on AI; there is a three
page article on AI in MTJ#4, as well as a special offer for Traveller
players to purchase it at a very good price.  Joe also mentioned that AI
is in the playtest stage, and that DGP will be devoting their full time
and energy to getting that game ready for publication.

There are a number of other articles of interest ... a very long
Traveller Q&A (which includes an explanation of the Primordials), and a
bunch of internal letters and memos from DGP archives.

And yes, it's still $12.95.

All in all, if you have to make a choice between MTJ#4 and Survival
Margin, I'd pick MTJ#4.  Your best bet is to get both, however.


wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                 Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                         in the Far Future


------------------------------

Bundle: 455
Archive-Message-Number: 5414
Date: 25 Apr 1993 17:59:13 -0500
From: SULAIMAN@ecs.umass.edu
Subject: DGP MegaTraveller Journal 4

Hi folks,
I just got a hold of the DGP Mefatraveller Journal 4. Their last, largest
and possibly the best issue. Contains a minicampaign "Lords of Thunder".
Reveals secrets about the Primordials and the Kkree (unrelated).
Plus lots of other stuff. Also a 3 page background on their new game 
AI. Sounds pretty good. 

Their reasoning for quitting sounds very familiar. Other folx on TML
have sited similar feelings. Oh also there is a sector map and info 
on Gateway sector. $12.95 I think.

I just got it so I'm still slobbering all over it.


Ameer

------------------------------

Bundle: 455
Archive-Message-Number: 5415
From: richard@agora.rain.com (Richard Johnson)
Subject: Viral Thoughts
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 93 5:28:51 PDT

If *The Virus* (tm) can infect any com puter ever made then it can
infect a player's (or NPC's) brain, right?  What is so special about the
biocomputer that the virus can't spread itself there?

If it CAN however, consider the idea of whole areas of the empire dying
off...

If it CAN't, consider a TNE universe that is forced to look sort of like
Herbert's DUNE universe, where some people become mentats - super
thinkers.
- -- 
Richard Johnson      richard@agora.rain.com
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

------------------------------

Bundle: 455
Archive-Message-Number: 5416
From: Brent Irvine <irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Virus
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1993 20:14:02 -0500 (CDT)

Hello all!  I decided to put my $0.02 into this discussion.

I purchased _Survival_Margin_ a couplea weeks ago and LOVED it, and I
have a few comments and questions to add to the group.

First, I feel the spread of the virus was not stopped dead in its
tracks:  Norris and the Deneb domain contacted its neighbors in a
state of panic.  The Zhos no doubt would scan the messangers and maybe
even Norris and verify that he was not lying.  The Aslans, despite
appearances, were only recent additions to the area and were in the
process of absorbing their 'new' conquests.  The Vargr were probably beyon
d hope.  But like Greece in the ancient times you could get a few allies
and use intimidation and threats of a combined Zho-Deneb attack to get
at least cooperation.

Sealing borders is a formidable task for the governments, but when the
first virus ships arrived and a few infections took place (and the
advance warning the Domain got) the whole Regency would understand the need,
and the political will would then exist.  The economy for the next few
years would be totally geared to stopping the virus and setting up a
"sealed border."  Downgrading starports to E in certain low population
frontiers, occupying certain systems, guarding gas giants in frontier systems,
and putting huge defense boat contingents in strategic trading center.
Also a joint RDF-type force would be placed in certain systems to respond
to threats.  The diversion of resources would stunt technological progress
for awhile as nearly every credit surplus would be used to combat the
virus threat.  The years from 1131 to about 1155 would be the worst of it,
beyond that, most of the bigger ships would break down for lack of repair.

I also formulated that perhaps the virus would be attacking computers
from TL10 or more, as the computer coordination of ships would be 
absolutely neccesary to perform more than J-1.  The use of Synaptics,
or self-reprogramming computers would allow the virus to spread, first
making the computer schitzophrenic, then taking over as the dominant
personality.  As I understand it, synaptics mimic neurons, which do
not distinguish between DATA and PROGRAMS as clearly as our clunky
TL8 machines do... :)  I would think that the most the virus could do
would be to lay and egg into the non-self programming computers.

As far as hardwiring - I think GDW is a bit silly.  Maybe with 
synaptics, and EEproms, but most TL9- machines would not be
vulnerable.

I would think that in the Regency, ship design would change, having
independant computers for every system (since I would think that
the Domain was not always as virus free as it is now -- it was just able
to stamp it out and not lose its technology in the process) with
data-links between non-synaptic systems (They would have gone back to
TL10 and re-developed to about TL15 along non-synaptic technologies)
allowing more than wimpy J-1.

Outside the Regency, I would think that only now would Jump technology
be coming back (thanks to some Hivers and a few planets that were less
than TL9 before the Virus -- they wouldn't have the Frankenstein syndrome
as bad as theformer high-tech worlds), and only Jump-1 at that.  The
computers required to do more than that would require development of
parallel, but different technologies that were virus-resistant.

I feel that the reason the Imperium fell so badly is the confusion of
the war and the destruction of communication links did not allow the
virus (which is not a virulent as GDW wants to make it -- just would
infect computers and such above TL9-10 that used synaptics) to be
stamped out the way it was in the Regency.  

[Also GDW wanted a 'preserve' for hard-core Classic Traveller Fans! :)]

Now for a few questions:

What the heck do you all think the "Black Curtain" was?  A special mutant
virus that thought it was Lucan infected everything and enslaved the core
area, working them to death, making things a living Hell for them?  Or did
Lucan somehow control Viral forces who had a love/hate/awe for their
'creator?'  What do you all think?

Would Terra be thrown back to TL5-7?  

Thanks for listening/reading!  
Have Fun!
Brent Irvine

------------------------------

Bundle: 455
Archive-Message-Number: 5417
From: Sean Maguire <smaguire@mihi.une.edu.au>
Subject: Challenge Writer Subscriptions
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 93 16:23:21 GMT-10:00

A couple of weeks ago, someone posted a letter to the newsgroup
about Challenge magazine wanting writer subscriptions . Due to a mail
failure, I lost the information pertaining to it (basic writer guide-
lines, the address etc) . So I was wondering if that said person
(I am really sorry I can't remember who it was) could either post it
again, or email me a copy . 

Much Obliged (Dunno if that is spelled properly)

[In Advance]

Edmund (C/0 Sean Maguire)



------------------------------

Bundle: 455
Archive-Message-Number: 5418
From: Brent Irvine <irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu>
Subject: TNE Virus invades carbon-based lifeforms
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1993 21:29:34 -0500 (CDT)

[I doctored the subject line and resent this misdirected mail to
traveller@engrg.uwo.ca -- James, TML Admin]

> From: richard@agora.rain.com (Richard Johnson)
> 
> If *The Virus* (tm) can infect any com puter ever made then it can
> infect a player's (or NPC's) brain, right?  What is so special about the
> biocomputer that the virus can't spread itself there?

The life form the virus was derived from was semiconductor based, I 
think carbon is just a conductor (though a poor one).

> If it CAN however, consider the idea of whole areas of the empire dying
> off...

Yikes!  Think about the ramifications!  Whole societies becoming in
a group mind bent on the destruction of everything. Shiver.

> If it CAN't, consider a TNE universe that is forced to look sort of like
> Herbert's DUNE universe, where some people become mentats - super
> thinkers.

Maybe that is how to counter the unusability of computers in the TNE
universe due to the virus (in my eyes, any computer with synaptics -
and synaptic types would be required for anything more than J1)!

Find a bunch of borderline PSIs, and train them to be mentat types
to allow higher jump levels and other important operations!

Kind of a cool thought...


------------------------------

Bundle: 455
Archive-Message-Number: 5419
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1993 10:33:49 +0100 (BST)
From: Stewart Eyres <spe@jb.man.ac.uk>
Reply-To: Stewart Eyres <spe@jb.man.ac.uk>
Subject: Megatraveller ship-to-ship combat

Megatraveller Journal 2 included a 'beginner's luck' article regarding
ship-to-ship combat, and made it seem quite straight forward and reasonable. 
They also included an errata sheet, which might help.  The biggest problem
is containing the number of tasks required, so as to allow the action to
flow.  I incorporated the tables on pp 97-101 in the Ref's Manual into
about six tasks.  These didn't include things like meson attacks, as this
really does not apply to the small scale combat I usually engage in.  The
damage results are a mess; for small vessels, the high number of critical
hits makes 'running repairs' a joke, while some of the rulings on the
damage tables make no sense; for example powerplant -1 reduces the
powerplant hit points by 10%, ie if you have 40 hitpoints, damage reduces
them in 4 point steps, but if you have 80, they are reduced in 8 point
steps.  Thus, different sized powerplants are destroyed at the same rate
by a given hit!  Also, the starship weapon stats given in the Players'
Manual prevent many weapons from being effective a space combat ranges,
while inflicting tremendous damage if they do penetrate amour.


Stewart							    spe@jb.man.ac.uk



------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Wed May 12 22:00:02 EDT 1993
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #456: Msgs 5420-5437 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Wed May 12 22:00:02 EDT 1993
Reply-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed May 12 22:00:02 EDT 1993
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #456: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 456  5420 29-Apr-1993 Martyn Wheeler   Re: You are invited to a wake..... << I
 456  5421 30-Apr-1993 Anthony Neal     Missiles... << Hello All:
 456  5422 30-Apr-1993 Klaus Moeller    Nuclear Power Plants << Hi,
 456  5423 30-Apr-1993                  Re: Nuclear Power Plants << In regard t
 456  5424 03-May-1992 "cbr::pihlab"@c  Back again - new address << If anyone h
 456  5425 04-May-1993 "Theresa Verity  Convention reminder... (grin) << ))) RE
 456  5426 05-May-1993 Derek Wildstar   REXX prograns on sunbane << I have just
 456  5427 05-May-1993 Justin Kim       Availability of the Techncal Architectu
 456  5428 05-May-1993 Justin Kim       Megatraveller design templates <<      
 456  5429 05-May-1993 James Kundert    Plasma Pistols/Blasters << Hello All,
 456  5430 06-May-1993 Steven Gott      optional drop in dammage system << This
 456  5431 06-May-1993 Derek Wildstar   Re:  Nuclear Power Plants << Klaus Moel
 456  5432 06-May-1993                  Re: Nuclear Power Plants << Wrote this 
 456  5433 07-May-1993 u9019138@athmai  damage system << What you are basically
 456  5434 06-May-1993 l.wiseman1@geni  TNE << Traveller: The New Era is due ba
 456  5435 07-May-1993 plb@violin.hr.a  Re: Plasma Pistols/Blasters << On May 5
 456  5436 07-May-1993 Colin Roald      re: Damage task system << > Now when a 
 456  5437 09-May-1993 Seth 'the Lesse  Re: Nuclear Power Plants << Wildstar <w

------------------------------

Bundle: 456
Archive-Message-Number: 5420
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 02:41:45 -0400
From: sasmjw@unx.sas.com (Martyn Wheeler)
Reply-To: sasmjw@unx.sas.com
Subject: Re: You are invited to a wake.....

I stack up a week's worth of TML because I don't have time to read it
(my players just unexpectedly(*) misjumped 22 parsecs from outside the
Imperium to near Attica/Querion, so I have to rush up some extra
background details for the Zhodani border), and somebody takes an axe
to my favourite soapbox... :-)

>[...] You wasted your life, instead of fighting and dying in the 5th
>Frontier war [...]

Um.  5th Frontier war?  What's that, pray tell, science fiction?
There has been no Fifth Frontier War, there has been no Rebellion --
we have always been as we are.

I think a lot of people are confusing a rules system with a campaign.
I have never used the Rebellion background, but almost everything I
have spent on MT material has paid off (or will pay off) in my
campaign, set as it is on the borders of a strong and thriving
Imperium exploring a new era of peace with the Zhodani.  I've even
used 2300AD material in the game.
    What makes a campaign successful is not the rules system, although
the rules must not be allowed to intrude, but the *feel*.  With a
consistent well thought out background, a good group of players, and
enough flexibility to take the universe where it wants to go, it
doesn't really matter what rules system is being used.  GDW's decision
to bring out a new rules system should not affect existing campaigns
- -- you can use the old rules, the new rules, and any mixture of
background you choose that blends into *your* game.  We freed
ourselves from strict adherence to the Party Line when we learnt to
say "Gygax is an insufferable moron" and reject the "If you don't use
these exact rules, I won't let you play" attitude (in the days when it
was IMHO true, not sure how Mr. Gygax's work is doing these days).
That was when, 10, 15 years ago?  I remember it well.
    I have not consciously decided whether to buy TNE.  I probably
will, and if a non-Rebellion sourcebook is added I certainly will.
GDW has usually produced stuff I find useful, and I don't expect them
to go downhill now.  How much of it I actually use verbatim depends on
how much fits in with my game.
    Whatever, GDW is *not* screwing our current campaigns.  There is
absolutely no reason why they cannot continue as they are now.  Any
campaign sufficiently well established that the GM feels irritated by
the new rules and/or background should be able to carry on by its own
momentum and the creative forces it generates within itself.
    What GDW is doing is what TSR did with AD&D -- attempting to make
a new "done right" rules set which still retains the character of the
original game.  To carry the analogy further: last time I ran a D&D
variant, I used some AD&D rules with a heavily modified magic system,
but still referred frequently to _Greyhawk_, _Blackmoor_, and
_Eldritch Wizardry_ (anyone remember those?).  When _Unearthed Arcana_
came out, and 2ed to follow that, I adapted the parts that fit and
ignored the rest.  I currently run a fairly straight MT campaign, with
increasingly modified space combat rules (personal combat I run mostly
by feel, on the rare occasions it's necessary(**)), and I expect to
take the best parts of TNE and bring them in.  If the _We Have Always
Been As We Are_ sourcebook is good enough, I may even retcon my
universe to match it more closely.  Whatever, the mere fact that GDW
is publishing new rules does *not* threaten my game, and I refuse to
get upset about it.
    Not singling anyone out, but I think several people are taking
this too personally.  Nothing wrong with criticism, of course, but I
detect a sense that some people feel screwed by TNE, and I think
they're over-reacting.  Methinks the lady doth protest too much, as it
were.


(*) somewhat unexpected.  The annual maintenance on the TL17 jump
drive was due almost a year ago, and they're having trouble finding
suitable shipyard facilities. :-)

(**) the last thing shot was the communicator in Sick Bay (the
equipment, not a person).  I didn't feel the need to refer to the
rules for that. :-)

Martyn
- --------------sasmjw@unx.sas.com----(Martyn Wheeler)----DoD #293--------------
SAS Institute, Inc: (919) 677-8000 ext.7954    H: (919) 839-0092 (Raleigh, NC)
    "Anyone who gets to Admiral in the Imperial Navy is pretty
obnoxious."
    "I resemble that remark." -- Grand Admiral Sir Bridgehead MD (Retd.)

------------------------------

Bundle: 456
Archive-Message-Number: 5421
Date: 	Fri, 30 Apr 1993 01:47:16 -0230
From: Anthony Neal <anthonyn@odie.cs.mun.ca>
Subject: Missiles...

Hello All:

	As I have never been able to piece together the starship combat section
	of my rather error-filled MegaTrav Referee's Guide, I have decided to
	adopt my own way of applying damage, based on some of the commentaries in
	past volumes of the TML. Most of these medium-rare rules are based on the
	"damage based on Mw values" of weapons. Minor modifications and multipliers
	are used in certain areas relating to the UCP values, etc... Whatever.

	But then we enter the void of Missiles. Now, How the He** do we figure
	out the damage points value of missiles. No mention in any rule books.
	I referred to COACC for inspiration, came to a half baked 60 damage points
	per missile based on some stats there, but then the TL of the missile 
	comes into account. Oh oh. And what about Nuclear and Antimatter...

	Does anyone out there have a system for such things? If so, a fairly 
	inexperienced GM who's been trying desperately to get this thing working
	would appretiate some guidance.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Anthony Neal                 |"Lets bring up the cargo manifest. 2300 laser 
anthonyn@odie.cs.mun.ca      | pistols, 1600 laser rifles, 1 ATV, 67 suits of
Memorial University Of       | combat armor and...    What the hell are 
Newfoundland                 | 'tribbles'?"
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Bundle: 456
Archive-Message-Number: 5422
From: Klaus Moeller <Klaus.Moeller@arbi.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de>
Subject: Nuclear Power Plants
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1993 19:57:00 +0200 (MET DST)

Hi,

This is my first posting to the list but I've been following the
discussions for some time now.

The discussion about the fuel usage of nuclear power plants has been
here on the list several times now, but I was missing a revised table 
of the power plants.

I'm not an engineer or physicst (only a CS student) so my calculations
may be wrong. Please correct me when you discover errors or miscalculations.

Basic Assumptions:
The fuel tanks of traveller spacecraft carry liquid hydrogen (for fusion power
plants) and its ordinary hydrogen.
I've covered deuterium using plants as a new type of fuision power plant.

FISSION: I use the figures from Rob Dean's article from Dec 1990 
         (article number 1914) 
         Fissionanbles are enriched to 5%, burn down to 1% and fission
	 power plants have a 30% efficiency.
	 Figure: 1.3 l per year per MW of power plant output.

FUSION:  Oridinary hydrogen reaction for "standard" fusion power plants is:

	   1                4
         4  H + 2 e    --->  He + 27.05 MeV
	   1                2

         Deuterium reaction:


                     3     1
		 /->  He +  n  + 3.72 MeV
           2    /    2     0
         2  H  /  
           1   \	    (or with about even probabilty)
		\    3     1
		 \->  H  +  H  + 4.03 MeV
                     1     1

	 Average of 3.875 MeV

         1 Kg of hydrogen has (1 * 6.022 * 10^26)/1 atoms
	 1 l of hydrogen weighs 0.07 Kg, so it has 0.07 * 6.022 * 10^26
	 = 4.22 * 10^25 atoms. Fusing yields (4.22 * 10^25) / 4 * 27.05
	 = 2.85 * 10^26 MeV = 4.56 * 10^13 Ws = 12700 MWh

	 1 Kg of deuterium has (1 * 6.022 * 10^26)/2 atoms   
	 1 l of deuterium weighs 0.14 Kg, so it has 0.14 * 6.022 * 10^26 / 2
	 = 4.22 * 10^25 atoms. Fusing yields (4.22 * 10^25) / 2 * 3.875
	 = 8.17 * 10^25 MeV = 1.31 * 10^13 Ws = 3630 MWh

	 (6.022 * 10^26 : Avogadro's number
	  1 MeV = 1.6 * 10^-13 watt seconds
	  MeV : Mega Electron Volt
          Ws  : Watt Seconds
	  MWh : MegaWatt Hours)

          Depending on what system we use (High Guard, MegaTraveller or 
	  Striker) we arrive at different efficencies.
          With the ordinary hydrogen reaction, HG plants have a 0.1% eff.,
          MTrav plants a 0.016% eff. and Striker plants an efficiency of
          0.032%.
          With the deuterium reaction, the efficiencies are 0.3%, 0.05% and
          0.1% respectively.

	  I've made fusion power plants that are between 3% and 36%
          effcient. That should satisfy engineers and be still 
          competitable with fission power.

ANTIMATTER: Antimatter reaction is just total conversion of matter to
            energy, so we can use the E = m * c^2 formula here.
	    1 Kg of matter yields 1 * c^2 = 25,000,000 MWh if totally
            converted to energy.
	    The efficiency for all antimatter plants is the same for
            all TLs. The Tl 17 plant yields 4,320,000 MWh per year and
            uses 250 TONS of matter for this. And this time the rest
            cannot simply be vented outside (THAT would leave a trail in
            an atmosphere). The antimatter plants thus have all an 
            efficiency of 0.00007%. 
	    I assume that the antimatter <-> matter reaction is
            100 % efficient and the conversion to electrical energy is about
            30 % efficient.

Enough theory, the table:

Type        |TL| Wt|Price| Min Vol |  Pow  |  Fuel|  Fuel Type   | Efficiency
=============================================================================
Fission     | 6| 8 | 0.1 |  5.00   |  1.0  |  1.3 | Radioactives |    ----
Fission     | 8| 6 | 0.1 |  2.00   |  1.5  |  1.5 | Radioactives |    ----
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Early Fusion| 9| 6 | 0.2 | 20.00   |  2.0  | 60.0 |  Deuterium   | 24%
Early Fusion|10| 5 | 0.2 |  4.00   |  2.0  | 50.0 |  Deuterium   | 29% - 10%
Early Fusion|11| 4 | 0.2 |  1.00   |  2.0  | 40.0 |  Deuterium   | 36% - 12%
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fusion      |12| 4 | 0.2 | 10.00   |  3.0  | 40.0 |  Hydrogen    | 15% - 10%
Fusion      |13| 3 | 0.2 |  2.00   |  4.0  | 40.0 |  Hydrogen    | 20% -  7%
Fusion      |14| 3 | 0.2 |  0.40   |  5.0  | 40.0 |  Hydrogen    | 26% -  4%
Fusion      |15| 2 | 0.2 |  0.10   |  6.0  | 40.0 |  Hydrogen    | 31% -  3%
Fusion      |16| 1 | 0.2 |  0.08   |  7.0  | 40.0 |  Hydrogen    | 36% -  3%
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Antimatter  |17| 6 | 0.5 |  8.00   |   500 |  0.5 |  Antimatter  | 35%
Antimatter  |18| 5 | 0.5 |  1.00   |  1000 |  1.0 |  Antimatter  | 35%
Antimatter  |19| 4 | 0.5 |  0.50   |  2500 |  2.5 |  Antimatter  | 35%
Antimatter  |20| 3 | 0.5 |  0.10   | 15000 | 15.0 |  Antimatter  | 35%
Antimatter  |21| 2 | 0.5 |  0.02   | 50000 | 50.0 |  Antimatter  | 35%
============================================================================
Wt is in tons per Kl of plant. Price is in MCr per Kl of plant.
Minimum Volume is in Kl. Pow is power output per Kl of plant.
Fuel is fuel usage in liter per year per Kl of plant.
Efficiency is the efficiency of the plants of the given level. The right
number is the efficiency for the largest plant (14+ Kl) and the left
number is the efficiency for the smallest possible plant for the given TL.

The only problem I've now is that the endurance of almost anything
nuclear powered is way too large and the jump drive fusion plants become
even more inefficient. A 250 MW laser could be powered for a whole year
with 0.56 Kl at TL 15.
Perhaps I should make the plants an order of magnitude less efficient
for the sake of game balance. Decrease efficiency by a factor of 40 ?
(The laser above would than need 1.85 Kl per month)

						Klaus

- --  
 /     Klaus Moeller, Leiteweg 2, 2940 Wilhelmshaven, West - Germany       \
<    Klaus.Moeller@Informatik.Uni-Oldenburg.DE   078326@DOLUNI1.BITNET      >
 \             security is an exercise in applied paranoia                 /

------------------------------

Bundle: 456
Archive-Message-Number: 5423
Date: 	Fri, 30 Apr 1993 23:08:00 -0400
From: <CDF1@PSUVM.PSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Nuclear Power Plants

In regard to the table that went up yesterday for power plants....

First, 5% enrichment is good for commercial electric generating stations
and the efficiency of 36% is good.

However, for any sort of space reactor propulsion, enrichment better go
up to near 60% or even higher depending on the fuel.  For the most part
the extra U-238 is just wasted weight (ok, maybe a little conversion to
plutonium but not much (relatively speaking.))

Also, efficiency for the space reactors is a lot higher than 36%
if you figure just for propulsion.  If you want to make some sort of
black box energy conversion for electrical energy production, I can
see something anywhere from 45 to 60 percent efficient within the next
few hundred years.  We're already looking at 40 percent and
up in some high tech applications today.

Also, this black box conversion from thermal energy to electrical energy
would be the same regardless of the power source, fission or fusion or
antimatter (for a given tech level.)

The "efficiency" better be defined before putting it in table form.  I think
most people are used to efficiency meaning "energy out/energy available"
(to be simplistic.)

The table is a good start (heck, all _I've_ done is criticize...Klaus did the
work!) but there are spots for improvement.

 *-=Carl=-*  INTERNET - cdf1@psuvm.psu.edu | In battle, you can do   |
             GEnie - C.FAGO1               | everything right...     |
 Carl Fago   State College, PA             | and _still_ lose!       |


------------------------------

Bundle: 456
Archive-Message-Number: 5424
Date: Sun, 03 May 1992 16:21:43 EDT
From: "cbr::pihlab"@cnb09w.hhcs.gov.au
Subject: Back again - new address


If anyone has been trying to EM me and had their messages bounce then its\
because our network machine died a gruesome death.

My previous address of    pihlab@hhcs.gov.au   will continue to work for a
while yet but please change future EMs to use my new address shown below.


Bruce...       pihlab@cbr.hhcs.gov.au
               
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  new address.

------------------------------

Bundle: 456
Archive-Message-Number: 5425
Date: 	Tue, 4 May 1993 19:00:00 -0400
From: "Theresa Verity / Allied Gaming Interests, Inc." <UWFGAMER@UWF.uwo.ca>
Subject:      Convention reminder... (grin)

))) REMINDER & UPDATE INFORMATION (((
C O N V E N T I O N  Announcement:

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                          presents

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     D   D     C      U    U  B   B  E       D   D   9    9      3
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     D   D     C      U    U  B   B  E       D   D       9       3
     DDDD       CCCC   UUUU   BBBB   EEEEE   DDDD       9    3333
                          (D-Cubed 1993)

           A SOUTHEASTERN GAMING AND JAPANIMATION CONVENTION

      When: June 5 - 6, 1993

      Where: Pensacola Civic Center
              Pensacola, Florida

      HOW MUCH: $10 PER DAY   (POSTMARKED BY 5/5/93)
            $15 FOR BOTH DAYS ($12 AND $20 RESPECTIVELY AFTERWARDS)

      Hotels: Seville Inn (1-800-277-7375, ask for group rate #2910)
               Days Inn (1-800-325-2525, ask for D-Cubed special)
                  Both $39 a night!!!

      Guests: Greg Porter (BTRC)
               Bill Olmesdahl and Ed Stark (West End Games)
              EX DRAGO

      Games Supported:
            AD&D, Ancients, Ars Magica, BattleTech, Champions, Dream
      Park, GURPS, MegaTraveller, Napoleonics, Paranoia, Rifts, Rune
      Quest, ShadowRun, Space Hulk, Star Fleet Battles, Star Wars,
      Twilight 2000, WarHammer 40K, WarHammer Fantasy Role-Play.
            (* Others to be added if a GM is found)

      Attractions:
            Miniatures contest, auctions, 2 24-hour gaming zombie
      zones (one at each hotel), seminars, movies, company
      sanctioned tournament games, an entire wing for dealers,
      alternative videos, white sands of Pensacola Beach, seasoned
      GM'S, AND MORE...  AT LEAST THREE NEW GAMES WILL BE EXCLUSIVELY
      UNVEILED THIS YEAR, COME SEE WHAT THEY ARE!!! 48-Hour Japanimation
      Festival (thanks to USMC, US Renditions, AD Vision, StreamLine
      Pictures and AnimEigo)...
            Although there is no formal costume contest, we do want
      to encourage those who wish to dress up.  ALL weapons are to
      be Peace-Bonded or boffo.

      For More Information:
            A.G.I., Inc.                  UWFGAMER@UWF.CC.UWF.EDU.internet
            P.O. Box 37186                UWFGAMER@UWF.bitnet
            PENSACOLA, FL
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            (904) 944-9627

  ALSO: 48-HOUR JAPANIMATION FESTIVAL...   ALL THE BEST ANIMATION WILL
BE SHOWN - FREE FOR GUESTS OF D-CUBED 1993...

------------------------------

Bundle: 456
Archive-Message-Number: 5426
Date: Wed, 5 May 93 09:37:48 EDT
From: wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu (Derek Wildstar)
Subject: REXX prograns on sunbane


I have just uploaded three files (hardtimes.rexx, addcodes.rexx, and
stripcodes.rexx).  These are REXX programs for manipulating Traveller
UWP data.  They were written and tested with ARexx (Amiga Rexx; included
with AmigaDOS v2.0 and higher), but should work with any system that
provides a complete REXX implementation (OS/2, and possibly others).

hardtimes.rexx ---- applies the Hard Times rules to subsector data
addcodes.rexx ----- interactively adds codes to data for Hard Times
stripcodes.rexx --- strips codes out of the data after you are done

wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                 Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                         in the Far Future


------------------------------

Bundle: 456
Archive-Message-Number: 5427
Date: Wed, 5 May 1993 17:52:15 -0800
From: jlkim@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Justin Kim)
Subject: Availability of the Techncal Architecture


        Does anyone know when the Techncal Architecture supplement or the
Deluxe Traveller set will be available?  The folks at the local games store
can't tell me anything more than early to mid June.

Thanks,
Justin


------------------------------

Bundle: 456
Archive-Message-Number: 5428
Date: Wed, 5 May 1993 19:49:03 -0800
From: jlkim@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Justin Kim)
Subject: Megatraveller design templates


        Can anyone tell me where I might be able to ftp Megatraveller
vehicle design templates for Excel?  Thanks.

Justin

P.S.  noticed the spelling errors just now in the last thing I sent to the
list.  Sorry.  It always annoys me when people don't proof their
submissions.  Arrgh!  I hate it even more when I don't!  :-)


------------------------------

Bundle: 456
Archive-Message-Number: 5429
Date: Wed, 5 May 93 22:36:03 PDT
From: James Kundert <james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>
Subject: Plasma Pistols/Blasters


Hello All,
   Through the kindness of a friend, I have been listening to the
TML since my membership died three years ago (due to a dying address).
I have, once or twice, posted via Rob or Carl (since they also have
GEnie accounts).  Now I have a real net address again, so here I am...
   Several weeks ago the question of blasters and plasma pistols
came up (again).  The last time this topic came up, I composed some
thoughts on the matter, but never got around to imposing on my
connections to get them posted...


Blasters and Plasma Pistols
   Weaponry from SF that is "obviously" beyond Traveller's TL15 has
always been fascinating.
 
The Plasma Pistol:
   For a good Traveller-style plasma pistol, check out the "Captain's
Sidearm" from Brian Daley's "Requiem for a Ruler of Worlds" (and its two
sequels).  While some implied features indicate that it is a second or
third generation design, in practice it makes a good "prototype" Plasma
Pistol (lots of flash and noise, a miniature 'gunshield' around the
grips, general disintegration of the target area).
   Another notable appearance of the Plasma Pistol is L. Neil Smith's
Confederacy series, specifically "Brightsuit MacBear".  This model
uses an (apparently) lower energy plasma than the Captain's Sidearm,
but gives the plasma a bigger push and better packet coherency.  Fired
into dense vegetation, the 'round' keeps going in a straight line for
quite a distance, eating a long, straight tunnel throught the leaves.
Firing at a human target, however, produces the same effect as the
(much louder) Captain's Sidearm:  boom, flash, dead.
 
 
Blasters:
   The Blaster (pistol and carbine) from Star Wars is an unusual weapon.
Gamers have been trying to adapt it to Traveller since the beginning.
 
   From White Dwarf #11 (Feb/March 1979), in an article called
"Fire-Arms: 3000 A.D." by Brian Asbury, comes this approach:
      "The Hand Blaster:  This is a handgun-sized atomic energy weapon,
firing a tiny 3mm x 15mm projectile at 700 to 800 meters per second.  Once
it is set into motion, anything that stops the projectile trips a tiny
atomic trigger which converts a submicroscopic fraction of its mass into
energy.  A magazine carrying six charges is inserted into the gun's handle,
one charge being fired for each pull of the trigger.  Reloading takes one
combat round, but two if the firer is treated as evading.
      "Disadvantages of this weapon are its obvious expense, plus the fact
that any target blasted by it becomes radioactive for twenty four hours.
The effective radius of this radiation is only about half a meter, however.
If desired, the blaster can be used to cut through solid steel of up to 15cm
thickness, blasting a circular opening of approximately 1 meter diameter.
      "Weight 1200/200; Rds/Clip 6; Length 200; Price 4000/200;
      "Armor DMs: Nothing(+4), Jack(+4), Mesh(+1), Cloth(-1), Reflec(+4),
Ablat(+1), Battle(-4).
      "Range DMs: Close(-6), Short(0), Medium(+1), Long(-5), VeryLong(no),
Wound Inflicted 5D."
 
   To me, This sounds like a large caliber pistol firing collapsing rounds
(from Striker).  The reason for only 6 rounds would be the necessity of
incorporating a damper box in the magazine.  The article also had a larger
version called a Blast Rifle, which fired 4mm rounds at 1000 meters per
second, and produced a bit more damage (and a slightly larger hole).  No
Tech Levels are given for either weapon (or anything else in the article).
 
   There is also the "Magic-that-looks-like-technology" version in TSRs
Gamma World.  The second edition of this game applied a rather amusing
typo to the blaster, enabling the Mark V and Mark VII Blasters to
atomize anything protected by a Force Field, but be harmless otherwise.
Nothing in the description helps us understand the "how" of this weapon.
 
   Obviously, neither of these is quite right when compared to Han Solo's
Trusty Blaster(tm).  One has ammo restrictions, and both are too
destructive.
   A close look at the Star Wars movies will tell you that a conventional
Traveller Plasma Gun, even scaled down, doesn't quite fit either.  When a
Stormtrooper falls over after being shot, ALL OF HIM falls over, not just
boots and smoking ashes.  On the other hand, the Star Wars Blaster has
enough punch to shoot out locks and slag control panels.  The Blaster
has no danger space (unlike Traveller Plasma and Fusion weapons), since
we see it used constantly on targets (usually controls or locks) a foot
or two from the barrel, and Darth Vader wouldn't have been able to stop
those shots (in "The Empire Strikes Back") without smoking most of the
rest of the room.
   A possible solution comes (again) from the WD #11 article.  This weapon,
instead of being scaled down, could be made more deadly with advancing
TL, eventually becoming a "blaster" which acts like those in Star Wars.
 
      "The L.P.L. Stungun (Full title: Low-Power-Laser-directed-
electrical-shock-Stun Weapon):  A pistol-sized weapon which uses a low
power laser beam to ionize the air in a path along its line, and then
sends a burst of electrical energy along the path.  This has the effect
of stunning any human-sized opponent it hits, without causing any actual
damage.  The saving throw against such a stun is 11+ for a human (DM: +1
for endurance 10+), but becomes proportionately lower for larger species,
e.g. an elephant's save would be 3+.  The power pack for this weapon
forms the pistol's handle, carries 8 charges and takes 4 hours to
recharge.  Power packs may be changed during combat, taking one round to
do so, in which the firer is treated as evading.  This weapon does not
function in vacuum or trace atmosphere and is subject to a DM of -4 in
high crosswinds.
      "Weight 500/300; Rds/Clip 8; Length 175; Price 1500/200;
      "Armor DMs: Nothing(+2), Jack(+2), Mesh(+1), Cloth(+1), Reflec(-8),
Ablat(-7), Battle(-6).
      "Range DMs: Close(+2), Short(+2), Medium(-1), Long(no), VeryLong(no),
Wound Inflicted (special)."
 
   Note that the "clip" is actually the entire handle, and makes up 60% of
the weapon's weight.  As with the Blaster, there was no TL listed for this
weapon, but I had placed it at TL10.  With advancing TL, the laser and/or
the electrical jolt could be strengthened enough so that the combination
will kill.  Given the advances of the normal Laser Pistol, this weapon's
laser would be a flashlight by comparison, but the jolt does most of the
damage anyway (at low TL).
   As a side note, electricity was a type of plasma last time I looked,
so this is a 'poor man's Plasma Pistol' as well.
 
   (The article in White Dwarf #11 gives apologies to Harry Harrison for
lifting a few ideas from his books, but I don't know it this applies
to either of the weapons quoted here.)
 
 James "Farstar" Kundert
  james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us
  j.kundert@genie.geis.com

------------------------------

Bundle: 456
Archive-Message-Number: 5430
Date: Thu, 6 May 1993 12:40:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steven Gott <sgott@u.washington.edu>
Subject: optional drop in dammage system


This is my first posting to the list so please be kind.

I have been toying with a varient of dammage in the Traveller games.  Most
of this comes from my experiances with 2300 AD which for all of its faults
had some really novel features.  The key one IMO is the Task System.

These dammage rules rely upon viewing combat as a part of the task system.
 Hitting the target already is covered by the task system and now in my
opitional system taking dammage is a task.  

Old Sequence:
		Player A attackes Target B 
		If Target is hit Player A rolls dice for location, dammage
		blah blah blah blah
		Player B attacks Target A 

This is pretty standard for most RPGs.  The problems arise when one of the
players is a firearms/martial arts guru and points out ad nausium how this
does not reflect 'reality'  

These people have a point.  If your group likes to fight fight fight they
want the combat rules to be good.  So I ponderd over this for a long time
and finally it occurred to me that the whole hit point/random dammage
concept could be replaced by a NO HIT POINT/constant dammage system.

At this point I made 5 types of wounds: scratches, light wounds,
substantive wounds, greivious wounds and mortal wounds.

Now when a person takes dammage in a fight 2 things happen: 1 the person
ignores the wound and keeps on fighting or the person must respond to the
wound.  This really sound like a task:

TASK: Ignoring a scratch [easy] --modified by determination
TASK: Ignoring a light wound [determination] routine
TASK: Ignoring a substantive wound [Det] difficult
TASK: Ignoring a greivious wound [Det]   formidable
TASK: Ignoring a mortal wound [Det]      impossible

Weapons are rated in terms of the typical type of wound they inflict.  For
example most pistols inflict substantive wounds.  IMO a substantive wound
is one that will cause the individual to drop his weapon, cease attacking
or stop running in 4 or 5 steps.

This is a good first step because now as the referee I have a lot more
control over how a combat turns out and we no longer have people routinely
taking 4 or 5 .45 bullets in the chest before dying.  Now when this
happens it is the exception and not the rule.

This system doesn't have hit locations per say.  I dived the Human body
into 3 areas: vital, non-vital, and 'normal'

A hit in a non-vital area does one level lower wound.  A hit in a vital
area does a one level higher wound.  Thus if I shot a person with a pistol
that did substantive wounds, it would do greivious wounds in vital areas
and light wounds in non-vital areas.

You can aim for 1 of the 3 areas at 1 level of increased difficulty to the
to hit Task.
- ------------------
Why do this?

1)	I think it is faster than the traditional method.

2)	I think it is more exciting when 'urgh! you take a greivious wound
	roll to ignore' than 'a body pistol does x dice of dammage, roll
	for location, and dammage'

3)	It makes combat unpredictable -- risky -- something to avoid
- -------------------

Anyway, there it is in a nutshell.  This isn't for everyone or every game.

Feel Free to rip it apart err comment.

Steven Gott


------------------------------

Bundle: 456
Archive-Message-Number: 5431
Date: Thu, 6 May 93 19:29:47 EDT
From: wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu (Derek Wildstar)
Subject: Re:  Nuclear Power Plants

Klaus Moeller <Klaus.Moeller@arbi.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de> writes:
> Subject: Nuclear Power Plants

In general, your suggestions seem reasonable; however, I'd suggest that
one of the physics experts here on TML take a look at your fusion and
antimatter numbers.  I don't know enough about the subject to be sure,
but isn't a significant fraction of the energy carried away in particles
that aren't useful (like neutrinos)?


wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                 Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                         in the Far Future


------------------------------

Bundle: 456
Archive-Message-Number: 5432
Date: 	Thu, 6 May 1993 22:19:00 -0400
From: <CDF1@PSUVM.PSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Nuclear Power Plants

Wrote this last Friday but looks like it got lost over the weekend when
Sunbane went down...
- -------------------------

In regard to the table that went up yesterday for power plants....

First, 5% enrichment is good for commercial electric generating stations
and the efficiency of 36% is good.

However, for any sort of space reactor propulsion, enrichment better go
up to near 60% or even higher depending on the fuel.  For the most part
the extra U-238 is just wasted weight (ok, maybe a little conversion to
plutonium but not much (relatively speaking.))

Also, efficiency for the space reactors is a lot higher than 36%
if you figure just for propulsion.  If you want to make some sort of
black box energy conversion for electrical energy production, I can
see something anywhere from 45 to 60 percent efficient within the next
few hundred years.  We're already looking at 40 percent and
up in some high tech applications today.

Also, this black box conversion from thermal energy to electrical energy
would be the same regardless of the power source, fission or fusion or
antimatter (for a given tech level.)

The "efficiency" better be defined before putting it in table form.  I think
most people are used to efficiency meaning "energy out/energy available"
(to be simplistic.)

The table is a good start (heck, all _I've_ done is criticize...Klaus did the
work!) but there are spots for improvement.

 *-=Carl=-*  INTERNET - cdf1@psuvm.psu.edu | In battle, you can do   |
             GEnie - C.FAGO1               | everything right...     |
 Carl Fago   State College, PA             | and _still_ lose!       |

------------------------------

Bundle: 456
Archive-Message-Number: 5433
From: u9019138@athmail1.causeway.qub.ac.uk
Subject: damage system
Date: Fri, 07 May 93 16:33:00 BST

What you are basically looking for here is Cyberpunk 1st edition
Friday Night Firefight.
Damage was described rather than taken and 20 points was enough to
kill the average bod. There were escalating severities of
wounds...light, medium, serious, really sore and mortal.
The system was fast and easy to remember though it used tables ...

I gotta go so i'll reply more on this next time

Watch this space

The genegeneer

[Ethics? Thats something to do with racial minorities, isn't it?]

------------------------------

Bundle: 456
Archive-Message-Number: 5434
From: l.wiseman1@genie.geis.com
Date: Thu,  6 May 93 23:56:00 EDT
Subject: TNE

Traveller: The New Era is due back from the printer's tommorow. I thought
some of you might want to know from a "reliable source."
    Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Bundle: 456
Archive-Message-Number: 5435
From: plb@violin.hr.att.com
Date: Fri, 7 May 1993 16:54:49 -0400
Reply-To: plb@violin.hr.att.com
Subject: Re: Plasma Pistols/Blasters

On May 5, 22:36, James Kundert wrote:
> Subject: Plasma Pistols/Blasters

[*]>    Obviously, neither of these is quite right when compared to Han Solo's
[*]> Trusty Blaster(tm).  One has ammo restrictions, and both are too
[*]> destructive.
[*]>    A close look at the Star Wars movies will tell you that a conventional
[*]> Traveller Plasma Gun, even scaled down, doesn't quite fit either.  When a
[*]> Stormtrooper falls over after being shot, ALL OF HIM falls over, not just
[*]> boots and smoking ashes.  On the other hand, the Star Wars Blaster has
[*]> enough punch to shoot out locks and slag control panels.  The Blaster
[*]> has no danger space (unlike Traveller Plasma and Fusion weapons), since
[*]> we see it used constantly on targets (usually controls or locks) a foot
[*]> or two from the barrel, and Darth Vader wouldn't have been able to stop
[*]> those shots (in "The Empire Strikes Back") without smoking most of the
[*]> rest of the room.
[*]>    A possible solution comes (again) from the WD #11 article.  This weapon,
[*]> instead of being scaled down, could be made more deadly with advancing
[*]> TL, eventually becoming a "blaster" which acts like those in Star Wars.
[*]>  

>-- End of excerpt from James Kundert


In an old campaign of mine, somebody wanted a blaster like Han Solo's. 
My solution was to "design" a weapon that was a miniature pulse laser.
It worked off of an "overload" condition in its power pack and hence had 
a very short life span.  It was good for about 24-32 shots and the "lasing" 
element and the had to be replaced after that point.

Also, it was considered a very hazardous weapon to use.  One chance in 50
the power pack (hi-tech battery) could explode due to the combination of 
high heat and the generation of hydrogen gas.  Injuries that resulted usually 
were somewhat minor (2nd degree burns, etc).  

I realize that there are probably gaping holes in the technology here... but 
it was a quick and dirty answer to a player's wishes while attempting to 
maintain some semblence (sp?) of game balance...


- -- 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Playing: Lt Col Thul Jonson, Imperial Marines, retired.

------------------------------

Bundle: 456
Archive-Message-Number: 5436
Date: Fri, 7 May 93 19:27:38 EDT
From: Colin Roald <colin@callisto.pas.rochester.edu>
Subject: re: Damage task system

> Now when a person takes dammage in a fight 2 things happen: 1 the person
> ignores the wound and keeps on fighting or the person must respond to the
> wound.  This really sound like a task:

On first reading, I really like this.  It's simple, it's elegant, it
has good feel.  Damn cool idea!



- --
colin roald | they are putty in my hands, these business-boys. (the headcrusher)


------------------------------

Bundle: 456
Archive-Message-Number: 5437
Date: Sun, 9 May 93 20:51:49 EDT
From: Seth 'the Lesser' <slb22@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu>
Subject: Re: Nuclear Power Plants

Wildstar <wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu> said:
>                I don't know enough about the subject to be sure,
>but isn't a significant fraction of the energy carried away in particles
>that aren't useful (like neutrinos)?

I always thought the reason for the massive jump in fusion plant
power-to-mass ratio at TL 15 was that superdense matter technology enabled
the plant to capture some of the high-energy neutrinos produced by the
reaction and convert their energy to electrical power....

	Seth "the Lesser"

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Wed May 12 22:00:02 EDT 1993
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #457: Msgs 5438-5450 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Wed May 12 22:00:02 EDT 1993
Reply-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed May 12 22:00:02 EDT 1993
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #457: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 457  5438 10-May-1993 u9019138@athmai  Combat in the Future Era << In response
 457  5439 10-May-1993 "THOMS, KEITH"   re:  damage system <<   I like Steven G
 457  5440 10-May-1993 metlay           First thoughts after reading _Survival 
 457  5441 10-May-1993 Klaus Moeller    Re: Nuclear Power Plants << > First, 5%
 457  5442 10-May-1993 gwh@lurnix.COM   Re: First thoughts after reading _Survi
 457  5443 10-May-1993 "Pedro A.C. Tav  2300AD list << Hi everybody,
 457  5444 10-May-1993 "Pedro A.C. Tav  2300AD list << Hi everybody,
 457  5445 10-May-1993 JNCHIGGIN@delph  Nuclear reactors... << Klaus Moeller:
 457  5446 11-May-1993 u9019138@athmai  Survival Margin and 2300ad << POSSIBLE 
 457  5447 11-May-1993 Robert S. Dean   Re:  First thoughts after reading _Surv
 457  5448 11-May-1993 Stewart Eyres    Re: TML biweekly: Msgs 5428-5437 V35#1 
 457  5449 11-May-1993 u9019138@athmai  Re: Damage system?  << >I take it you u
 457  5450 12-May-1993 Goldman of Chao  TNE as the cyberpunk FICTION of the Tra

------------------------------

Bundle: 457
Archive-Message-Number: 5438
From: u9019138@athmail1.causeway.qub.ac.uk
Subject: Combat in the Future Era
Date: Mon, 10 May 93 17:06:58 BST

In response to the task related wound system, here's an alternative
(which would work better if you added the task rules suggested by Mr
Gott to these also)

Assuming Damage Inflicted =Damage of weapon - Armour
   (using GDW house system a bit)
eg 6 dice laser, against 2 dice assault armour = 4 dice inflicted
  That is 4d6

Damage  Con Rating
        (1,2,3)  (4,5,6)  (7,8,9)  (10,11,12)  (13,14,15)

1-2        S        F        F         F           F            
3-4        S        S        F         F           F                  
5-6        C        S        S         F           F
7-8        C        C        S         S           F                  
9-10       M        C        C         S           S              
11-12      M        M        C         C           S            
13-14      D        M        M         C           C                  
15-16      D        D        M         M           C            
17-18      D        D        D         M           M                 
19-20      D        D        D         D           M                  
21-22      D        D        D         D           D              
23-24      D        D        D         D           D             
25+        D        D        D         D           D                 

F = FLESH WOUND
    Include contusions, cuts and tissue damage. Tissue trauma is
    moderate, and the wounds are messy but not incapacitating.
S = SERIOUS WOUND
    Massive tissue trauma, bloodloss, internal organ damage and 
    possible bone fractures. Roll 1d6 on following table.
     Limb and Torso: on a 1 or 2 you have a broken bone. A broken
    arm or leg renders the limb useless. A broken rib reduces dex
    and movement by half and all activities are at -2
     Head: Skull fracture causes massive blinding headaches,
    reducing int, dex and initiative by half. On a roll of 3 the
    victim takes no skull damage but has lost an eye. 
    If a serious wound is left untreated for more than 20 mins it
    automatically worsens to a Critical Wound
C = CRITICAL WOUND
    Dangerous tissue trauma, severing of major artery or vein, and
    possibly severe damage to internal organs. Limbs are unusable
    and will require immediate attention as they have been all but
    severed. Roll 1d6 for additional effects
    Limb: on 1 or 2 the limb must be amputated.
    Torso: on 1 or 2 the lungs have been punctured and the victim is
    immobile. On 3 or 4 there has been major damage to the abdominal
    organs. Victim can still move but int, dex and initiative are
    reduced to 1 automatically. On 5 or 6 there is major damage
    to the lower abdomen and groin area. The victim cannot move,
    attack, or defend - he's too busy writhing on the ground in 
    pain.
    Head: On a 1, skull has been shattered or crushed, suffering 
    1d6/2 points from each of int and dex (brain damage). On a 2 , 
    the victim suffers amnesia and must forever make a Difficult
    task attempt (int) to remember people, places, incidents or
    things from his past. On a 3, the victim is blinded.
    If a critical wound is not tended to within 2 minutes, it worsens
    to a mortal wound.
M = MORTAL WOUND
    Essentially a killing wound. The victim is now dying. he may not
    move, attack or defend. Each turn he must make a Death Save. On
    a roll equal or less than the Death save number, he survives to 
    the next turn. 
D = DEAD
    The victim has instantly expired from the severity of his wounds.
    

DEATH SAVES
The death save number is equal to the Constitution statistic of the
victim. 

CONSCIOUSNESS SAVE
After any wound, it is necessary to make a save to determine does
the victim lose consciousness
This number must be rolled under and is modified by the severity of
wounds.
This modification is equal to the damage point inflicted in the
attack.

CUMULATIVE WOUNDS
                  New Wound Level
Previous Wound 
                   Flesh  Serious  Critical  Mortal

Unhurt             Flesh  Serious  Critical  Mortal
Flesh              Flesh  Serious  Critical  Mortal
Serious            Flesh  Critical Mortal    Dead
Critical           Flesh  Mortal   Dead      Dead
Mortal             Flesh  Dead     Dead      Dead

WOUND RECOVERY
 The wound will recover one level if a roll equal to or less than
the victims constitution stat is made. This can be modified at the
Gm's discretion to suit Medical care or lack of same or especially
nasty weaponry....such as from plasma weapons or other which I can
think of ie Polsci Stinger from Spacetime, graser cannons etc


The above is from 1st Ed Cyberpunk (slightly changed)and the wound 
numbers on the table can be modified at will to suit the severity
 of the wounds.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Also specifically to Sean Maguire

I think I was one who asked for Challenge submission guidelines..but
there was no sign. If you did receive a copy could you or some other
kind soul forward one to me?



From Matt

u9019138@athmail1.causeway.qub.ac.uk

[Yes I'm a Solomani....want to make something of it GIS (genetically
inferior species)]

------------------------------

Bundle: 457
Archive-Message-Number: 5439
Date: 10 May 93 13:05:00 EST
From: "THOMS, KEITH" <KTHOMS@nccs-evax.navy.mil>
Subject: re:  damage system


  I like Steven Gott's damage system!  I'd assume that the damage
table would be a matrix of weapon vs. armor.  Do you have anything
that you could post?

  What happens when you fail a determination roll?  Are you unable
to perform any activity until you pass the det' roll?   Would first
aid to yourself then count as an activity?

  I see this as a positive improvement for role-playing.  If anyone
else playtests this concept, could you post your opinions?  I think
this is an interesting thread to continue.


Keith Thoms


------------------------------

Bundle: 457
Archive-Message-Number: 5440
From: metlay@netcom.com (metlay)
Subject: First thoughts after reading _Survival Margin_
Date: Mon, 10 May 93 10:44:28 PDT


"A voice is heard in Ramah, lamentation and bitter weeping...she is 
weeping for her children, refusing to be comforted, for they are no more."

Hi, gang. Let me start off by thanking Loren Wiseman for his prompt note
about the print run of TNE; such news is always appreciated.

I read _Survival Margin_ from cover to cover on Saturday, and spent a 
surprising (to me, anyway) portion of the next two days brooding.
SM (and _Arrival Vengeance_, which I got at the same time) affected
me very deeply, in a way no Traveller book has done since the Rebellion
began. While I applaud Dave Nilsen for at least being able to do THAT,
I am saddened by the fact that the emotions he evoked were those of
revulsion, disgust, and yes, even hatred.

I hate this game setting. I just hate it.

I want to make very clear what I am saying here, and make even MORE
clear what I am NOT saying here. I am not saying that GDW produced yet
another substandard piece of Traveller material. Far from it; I think
that SM was excellently put together, clearly organized, and
accomplished its task, namely as a bridge from MegaTraveller to TNE,
eloquently and effectively.  Its reprinting of previously published
material meshed very well with the newly written pieces and produced a
coherent and useful whole that was a very worthwhile read. The
behind-the-scenes journals and extra data filled in a lot of holes
that I had wondered about, and finally removed IRIS as a de jure (if
not de facto) force in the Imperium, a move which alone is worth the
price of the book. I will ignore for the moment my personal disgust at
the utterly pointless annihilation of the Antares Regency (my own
favorite spot in the MegaTraveller milieu), and simply say that if
future releases hold to this level of quality, I will gladly give GDW
my business and encourage others to do so as well. I am also not
saying, although some mean-spirited part of me would LIKE to, that
this is the final nail in Traveller's coffin as a rules system. I
think that in the light of the current market trends in RPGs, GDW is
making a very wise move here in updating Traveller from its admittedly
long-in-the-tooth beginnings and attempting to compete on a
fundamental level with the heavy hitters like GURPS and Shadowrun. If
the prior problems of poor proofreading and unprofessional artwork are
licked, and it looks as good as SM reads, then I think that GDW will
have a solid competitor on its hands, and I wish them well.

What I AM saying is that I hate the game setting. HATE IT!

On the Pocket Empire mailing list, we have held our breaths for
months, pausing in midstride as we waited for GDW to officialize the
tantalizing hints we received about how things are to work. We do not
agree 100% with the decisions made there, but we are abiding by them,
and the list is now swinging into high gear, awaiting only the rules
themselves to begin applying hard numbers to the ideas and frameworks
we have devised. Why, then, am I suddenly completely uninterested in
doing any more work there? I don't want to let these people down; my
contribution is admittedly small but I would like to think that it is
important enough not to simply drop without notice. What has happened?

What has happened is that I have seen the future and it STINKS.

I am not stating facts here. Only my opinions. And I loved the classic
Traveller universe. It was civilized; it was intelligent; it had solid
background and a sense of depth to it that other games lacked. This
was a huge, exciting, beautiful universe, from the Core to the Rim,
from spinward to trailing! There was so much to see and do, so many
different kinds of life to reflect, so many possible campaigns to run.
It was balanced; it gave characters a chance for excitement and fun at
whatever power level they wanted, up to and sometimes even including
the governance of whole worlds. And, pivotal to any long-standing
campaign with realistic characters, it allowed people to rest once in
a while.  There were places one could go to relax and enjoy the beauty
and wonder of this universe, and if adventure sneaked up on you while
you were working on your tan, so much the better.

Now, what do we have? A map of the Imperium smeared with grey paint,
with a big black SPLOTCH in the middle and a little chunk in one
corner or another that the paintbrush didn't reach. The grandeur of
Capital, the intrigue and espionage of the Solomani Rim, the exciting
new possibilities of the Hinterworlds and Gateway, the battle and
diplomacy of Reaver's Deep, the worldshattering implications of the
Aslan revelations, the horrible reality of the K'Kree and their plans
for humaniti-- all gone. Nothing left but piles of dead bodies and
rusted metal, scrabbled over by bands of savages and man-eating
computers. Big fat hairy goddamn deal. 

It just makes no sense to me on an artistic level. I know why they did
it. I've read their reports and I've tried, believe me, to support
them as wholeheartedly as I did in 1987 before I read about the
assassination of Strephon and watched the universe to which I'd
devoted years of my gaming career start to unravel. But it just makes
no sense. If all they wanted was a ruined-empire universe where
everything was forgotten, why not hire some writers and build one from
scratch?  FASA did that with the BattleTech universe, and did very
well for themselves: no one yearned for the Star League when the game
was predicated on its aftermath. Why did they feel the need to hack up
the best gaming campaign setting in the history of roleplaying and
throw the carcass to the vultures? It wasn't necessary. It really
accomplished nothing, except to absolve GDW of responsibility for
maintaining consistency in a game universe that had grown too large
for them to control. It substituted grand, far-reaching excitement for
petty, animalistic excitement, thought-provoking political and
economic problems for simple military exercises and head-smashing, a
broad view for a narrow one. And I hate it with a passion. The Imperium
is dead-- long live the Dawn League and the Star Vikings? No thank you.
I quit. I'm leaving. I can not deal with this now, call me a coward, a
stick-in-the-mud, an elitist, an old fogey, whatever you want. 

That having been said, what am I going to do now?

To be honest, I just don't know. I will continue to read the
TNE-Pocket material, and will see if the little spot of color we are
preparing to add to The Big Grey Map inspires me enough to start
working again on my part.  I will remain on the TML, and I will almost
certainly continue to playtest the TNE rules I have until I can obtain
the published versions. When those rules are in hand, I will begin to
type up the text of a sourcebook for TNE on the unbroken Third
Imperium, an idea that may or may not ever see approval by GDW and
which I will not discuss here until its future is known for certain,
one way or the other. I will finish running my MegaTraveller campaign
to its end, and see if the last set of people I care about in the
Traveller Universe, Grant and Company, make it to safety in Deneb
before the end (it's ironic that in Hector, the CymBiotic who ran
Grant's computer for him, I anticipated the Virus by over three
years). The PBEM I run with Mark Cook will continue-- the characters
have left the known Universe anyway, and we have time to consider what
sort of homecoming they will eventually endure.

And after that, when TNE is finally here? Who knows?

Perhaps I will take refuge in the old Imperium and dust off my ratty
old Classic Traveller books, and try to pretend none of this ever
happened. But I doubt it; that smacks of cowardice. Perhaps I, like
many others of my stripe, will take comfort from the highly unlikely
but metasatisfying pre-rebellion status of the Regency of Deneb, and
actually grow intrigued with the new mix of races and ideas there--
and perhaps I will learn to ignore the iron wall surrounding my new
little universe, beyond which there is nothing but grey paint. Right.

Perhaps my idea for a universe/campaign module allowing the unbroken
Third Imperium to be played using the newer (and hopefully better) TNE
rules set will fly, and I will be able to produce a work that both
serves those saddened by this turn of events AND provides GDW with a
worthwhile product that will generate good revenue. I hope so; in a
Universe once full of my grand designs, I now find that that little
as-yet-nonexistent book is my only real dream.

But one thing is certain: in my current ambivalent state, I am of no
use to anyone here as a resource, and must now officialize what has
been a de facto state of affairs since my mistakes in answering
questions have become more frequent and handled with more consistency
and accuracy by many others, all of whom have my thanks. I am hereby
resigning my post as Historian of the Traveller Mailing List, and am
remanding my duties to those who feel they can continue what I once
took joy in doing. I salute you all, and I'll see you, in some state
of mind or another, in the New Era.


Mike Metlay goes off the air immediately. I keep the flame. Good luck.
Communication ends.








------------------------------

Bundle: 457
Archive-Message-Number: 5441
From: Klaus Moeller <Klaus.Moeller@arbi.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de>
Subject: Re: Nuclear Power Plants
Date: Mon, 10 May 1993 13:21:21 +0200 (MET DST)

> First, 5% enrichment is good for commercial electric generating stations
> and the efficiency of 36% is good.
> 
> However, for any sort of space reactor propulsion, enrichment better go
> up to near 60% or even higher depending on the fuel.  For the most part
> the extra U-238 is just wasted weight (ok, maybe a little conversion to
> plutonium but not much (relatively speaking.))

I haven't figured out this figures by myself. (I'm only a CS student.)
The table gets a lot more complicated when we're including enrichment 
rate and burndown rate.
But you're right in that radioactives can be enriched to a much higher
degree. But I don't know about the risks in enriching radioactives to a
much higher degree. How safe is your reactor then ?
Handling becomes more dangerous with a higher enrichment rate as you
get to the critical mass more quickly. "Burning Through" your reactor
is also easier.
Besides, the power plants should be used for civilian and military
vessels alike. This might not be very realistic.
And then there's the question of cost efficiency. How expensive
would be fuel enriched to 10%, 25%, 50%, or even 75% or 90% ?
Lastly, highly enriched radioactives (90% or more enrichment) make bomb
grade material. As Imperial law make clear that nuclear bombs are for
nobody but the imperial military, I don't think that imperial authorities
allow highly enriched nuclear material to be carried aroound like
gasoline.

Perhaps I can include a variety of new fuel types. Like 
Radioactives with 5%, 10%, 25%, 50% and 75% enrichment.
Enriching radioactives is a very complicated task I've heard  and gets
more complicated the higher the enrichment, so the
price would increase proportional to the square of the enrichment rate while
efficiency would only increase linearly as less fuel is needed with 
higher enrichment rate.
 
> Also, efficiency for the space reactors is a lot higher than 36%
> if you figure just for propulsion.  If you want to make some sort of
> black box energy conversion for electrical energy production, I can
> see something anywhere from 45 to 60 percent efficient within the next
> few hundred years.  We're already looking at 40 percent and
> up in some high tech applications today.

Well, my first attempt of the table at home had a conversion efficiency
of 60% for fusion plants but assumed a much lower rate of fusing atoms.
The efficiency was around 16% then. (In fact, I was simply increasing
the efficiency of MT fusion plants by 1000.)

> Also, this black box conversion from thermal energy to electrical energy
> would be the same regardless of the power source, fission or fusion or
> antimatter (for a given tech level.)
> The "efficiency" better be defined before putting it in table form.  I think
> most people are used to efficiency meaning "energy out/energy available"
> (to be simplistic.)

The efficiency is in the table, because I figured in the scale efficiency
from the rules. (I don't know if they're reasonable). Some of the low tech
fusion plants have minimum size that are above the size for large scale plants.
(The TL 9 early fusion plant has a minimum size of 20 Kl which is above
the 11 Kl figure that triples fusion plant output.) On the other hand, not
all plants can be build under the lowest scale efficiency (which cuts down
output by 75%).

My major concern is about the balance in the design system when this table
is used. Nuclear powered starships can use their maneuver drive, weapons, etc.
now for years and still have much less space devoted to fuel storage than
before. I haven't done designs with it yet, but it would influence 
design in many ways. Commercial ships can have much more cargo space,
military ships can have much more weapons with a higher energy usage and
get much more expensive this way...

One way out of this would be to drop the reactionless drives and keep
only antigrav drives and have fusion rockets for deep space maneuvering. 
The thrust of anti grav would not drop by 50% after
10 planetary diameters but I would use something like 
100 % for up to 10 diameters
 50 % beyond 10 diameters
 25 % beyond 20 diameters
 11 % beyond 30 diameters
 6  % beyond 40 diameters 
 4  % beyonf 50 diameters
 and so on down to 1 % or no thrust beyond 100 diameters 

This way, spaceships are forced to use fusion rockets when they are going to
another planet but anti grav would be enough to reach geostationary orbit.
The fuel for the fusion rockets must be then included on top of the
fuel for the power plant(s). This could perhaps even thing out a bit.
There was a table about fusion rockets on the list a year ago or so.
The consumpition rate was around 1 KL per hour per 200 thrust if I 
remember correctly. The table was not complete but perhaps the one who 
posted it has worked on it since then ? 
The nice side effect would be the elemination of the reactionless thrusters
and their physical impossiblities.

(High Tech)Deep Space going craft would then have three drive systems. 
Antigrav for use inside a planets atmosphere. (I don't like the
idea of using fusion rockets inside an atmosphere.)
Fusion rockets outside the 10 diameter limit.
And jump drive for interstellar distances.

					Klaus

- -- 
 /     Klaus Moeller, Leiteweg 2, 2940 Wilhelmshaven, West - Germany       \
<    Klaus.Moeller@Informatik.Uni-Oldenburg.DE   078326@DOLUNI1.BITNET      >
 \             security is an exercise in applied paranoia                 /

------------------------------

Bundle: 457
Archive-Message-Number: 5442
Subject: Re: First thoughts after reading _Survival Margin_ 
Date: Mon, 10 May 93 14:09:32 -0700
From: gwh@lurnix.COM


Mike writes a long and deeply felt article, which I 
to a large degree sympathize with.

I would, however, like to share with the Traveller
Mailing List a quote from something that Hans wrote
up, which is (I hope) going to be on the first real
page of the Aoreriyya Dawn sourcebook we're pounding
pieces of together:


>     "Domain of Deneb goes off the air immediately.
>     We keep the flame. Good luck."
>         -- Deneb, 1130
>
>     "Anybody got a light?"
>         -- Aoreriyya, 1200


I agree with Mike that what was done to the Third Imperium
was pretty depressing, from a "where'd my Imperium go???"
point of view.  I enjoyed over 12 years of gaming in the
third imperium myself, and have had a few small contributions
to it here and there.  It felt sort of comfortable, and sort
of homey after all these years, and I miss it.

Well, that's gone.  I support Mike's effort to do a "It never
happened" sourcebook, and if asked (and if I have the time)
would help with it.  But following what happened in the official
Rebellion I agree with GDW that the Imperium couldn't have
been saved.

Traveller has to a large degree become a blank slate.
If we can put our feelings about the demise of the previous
regime behind us, we can make that which succeeds the
Third Imperium as interesting a place as the Imperium was.
I see this as the challenge of the hour, and I am honored
that GDW has let the tne-pocket crew have a crack at
doing so, at least in our corner of Reavers Deep 8-)

I will be holding a wake for the Third Imperium at some
point (anyone who can make it to Berkeley is welcome).
But I also hope to help launch something new.

- -george william herbert



------------------------------

Bundle: 457
Archive-Message-Number: 5443
Date: 	Mon, 10 May 1993 13:17:02 -0400
From: "Pedro A.C. Tavares" <ftavares%ptearn.bitnet@utcc.utoronto.ca>
Subject:      2300AD list

Hi everybody,
Some time ago I posted to the TML a proposal to create a forum for discussing
2300AD.  I finally had some time for taking a look at the replies and here are
the names of the people interested in it.
There seems to be some confusion about the nature of the list.  This is not a
discussion list or a newsgroup.  At least not at the moment.  It is simply a
way for the people interested in the game to know how to contact each other.
I hope this will make discussion on the game easier.

Follows the names and email addresses:

           John Banagan <jvbanagan@ucdavis.edu>
           Steve Camp <hobbes@spacemanspiff.den.mmc.com>
           John Gonzalez <gonzalez@athena.mit.edu>
           Steven Gott <sgott@u.washington.edu>
           Lord Krieg <cvadsaav@csupomona.edu>
           Joao Martins <fjmom@ptearn.bitnet>
           Sven Munther <sven.munther@copenhagen.ncr.com>
           Bruce Pihlamae <pihlab@hmcs.gov.au>
           Dudi Rippel <s2961427@techst02.technion.ac.il>
           Pedro Tavares <ftavares@ptearn.bitnet>

I have one last question to James Perkins:  I will post regulary to the TML    t
Tell me what you think is better.


Pedro Tavares

------------------------------

Bundle: 457
Archive-Message-Number: 5444
Date: 	Mon, 10 May 1993 13:17:02 -0400
From: "Pedro A.C. Tavares" <ftavares%ptearn.bitnet@utcc.utoronto.ca>
Subject:      2300AD list

Hi everybody,
Some time ago I posted to the TML a proposal to create a forum for discussing
2300AD.  I finally had some time for taking a look at the replies and here are
the names of the people interested in it.
There seems to be some confusion about the nature of the list.  This is not a
discussion list or a newsgroup.  At least not at the moment.  It is simply a
way for the people interested in the game to know how to contact each other.
I hope this will make discussion on the game easier.

Follows the names and email addresses:

           John Banagan <jvbanagan@ucdavis.edu>
           Steve Camp <hobbes@spacemanspiff.den.mmc.com>
           John Gonzalez <gonzalez@athena.mit.edu>
           Steven Gott <sgott@u.washington.edu>
           Lord Krieg <cvadsaav@csupomona.edu>
           Joao Martins <fjmom@ptearn.bitnet>
           Sven Munther <sven.munther@copenhagen.ncr.com>
           Bruce Pihlamae <pihlab@hmcs.gov.au>
           Dudi Rippel <s2961427@techst02.technion.ac.il>
           Pedro Tavares <ftavares@ptearn.bitnet>

I have one last question to James Perkins:  I will post regulary to the TML    t
Tell me what you think is better.


Pedro Tavares

------------------------------

Bundle: 457
Archive-Message-Number: 5445
Date: 10 May 1993 21:29:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: JNCHIGGIN@delphi.com
Subject: Nuclear reactors...

Klaus Moeller:

>> First, 5% enrichment is good for commercial electric generating stations
>> and the efficiency of 36% is good.

>> However, for any sort of space reactor propulsion, enrichment better go
>> up to near 60% or even higher depending on the fuel.  For the most part
>> the extra U-238 is just wasted weight (ok, maybe a little conversion to
>> plutonium but not much (relatively speaking.))

>But you're right in that radioactives can be enriched to a much higher
>degree. But I don't know about the risks in enriching radioactives to a
>much higher degree. How safe is your reactor then ?

Extremely so.  US Naval nuclear reactors are enriched rather higher than 60%,
with no problems, and we have a better safety record than civilian reactors
do...


>Handling becomes more dangerous with a higher enrichment rate as you
>get to the critical mass more quickly. "Burning Through" your reactor
>is also easier.

No, actually it isn't.  In either case...

>Besides, the power plants should be used for civilian and military
>vessels alike. This might not be very realistic.
>And then there's the question of cost efficiency. How expensive
>would be fuel enriched to 10%, 25%, 50%, or even 75% or 90% ?

Enriched fuel costs more than non-enriched fuel, but then we don't
use breeder reactors to MAKE enriched fuel (in large amounts).  And we
don't have fusion reactors to convert U-238 to something fissionable
just by parking the 238 next to the reaction chamber...

>Lastly, highly enriched radioactives (90% or more enrichment) make bomb
>grade material. As Imperial law make clear that nuclear bombs are for
>nobody but the imperial military, I don't think that imperial authorities
>allow highly enriched nuclear material to be carried aroound like
>gasoline.

Of course, they allow people to have fusion reactors, and starships that
can slam a planet a Hell of a lot harder than any nuclear weapon you could
build.  Note also that 80% enriched fuel is pretty much useless as a weapon,
but allows you to build a nuclear reactor that is MUCH, MUCH smaller than
what you can build at 5%.


>Perhaps I can include a variety of new fuel types. Like
>Radioactives with 5%, 10%, 25%, 50% and 75% enrichment.
>Enriching radioactives is a very complicated task I've heard  and gets
>more complicated the higher the enrichment, so the
>price would increase proportional to the square of the enrichment rate while
>efficiency would only increase linearly as less fuel is needed with
>higher enrichment rate.

No.  This is false.  Enriching radioactives is only difficult when you are
talking about U-238 and U-235.  Breeder reactors do it easily.  Fusion
reactors make it so simple that any high-school student could do it.

And frankly, it hasn't been terribly difficult since about the sixties, even
with modern technology...


>This way, spaceships are forced to use fusion rockets when they are going to
>another planet but anti grav would be enough to reach geostationary orbit.

Actually, I expect that in that case, they would use jump-drive to go
between planets.  Remember that it is faster to micro-jump to Pluto than
to go in real-space, even with 6G maneuver drives...


>The nice side effect would be the elemination of the reactionless thrusters
>and their physical impossiblities.

Impossibilities?  Hmmm...  Perhaps you should PROVE their "impossibility"
sometime.  Just to prove you can...

                                Steve Higginbotham


------------------------------

Bundle: 457
Archive-Message-Number: 5446
From: u9019138@athmail1.causeway.qub.ac.uk
Subject: Survival Margin and 2300ad
Date: Tue, 11 May 93 11:56:54 BST




POSSIBLE SPOILER FOR TRAVELLER;THE REBELLION






I was so glad that Arrival Vengeance cleared up the Strephon thing.
I was also glad that Norris was basically the winner
I was also glad that dulinor got his just deserts
I WAS NOT GLAD THAT LUCAN DISAPPEARED WITH IN A BLACK CURTAIN

I wanted the soab to get mercillessly killed by nasty aliens




LONG LIVE THE EMPIRE, THE EMPIRE WILL NEVER BE THE SAME WITHOUT
 STREPHON..........AW POO


Still....I like the TNE stuff.


Matt

------------------------------

Bundle: 457
Archive-Message-Number: 5447
Date:     Tue, 11 May 93 10:03:07 EDT
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@cbda8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  First thoughts after reading _Survival Margin_

I have trimmed the esteemed Former Historian's lamentation down to what
I consider to be the most salient points:

Mike Metlay writes:

> What I AM saying is that I hate the game setting. HATE IT!
> What has happened is that I have seen the future and it STINKS.
> 
> I am not stating facts here. Only my opinions. And I loved the classic
> Traveller universe. It was civilized; it was intelligent; it had solid
> background and a sense of depth to it that other games lacked. This
> was a huge, exciting, beautiful universe, from the Core to the Rim,
> from spinward to trailing! There was so much to see and do, so many
> different kinds of life to reflect, so many possible campaigns to run.

I'm with Mike here.  I can certainly understand the desire of the folks at
GDW to update the game system.  I'm not really hung up on game systems, per
se, despite all the fooling around that I've done with the MT design rules.
I don't agree with the perceived need for the update, but that is a long
digression that has no place here today.

The trouble that I have is that the new setting is DULL.  Ho hum...another
planet full of barbarians.  How clever can I be today?  "Yo, Starblade, bring
me my laser rifle...those guys have blowguns and they look a little more
dangerous than the last batch." :-( :-P  Was it here that someone mentioned
H. Beam Piper's "Gunpowder God" recently?  If not, they should have.  For
those of you unfamiliar with the works of Piper (shame on you! a seminal
influence on Traveller), "GG" is effectively an early draft of what became
_Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen_, a story of a 17th century tech level kingdom
menaced by its neighbors when their supply of gunpowder is cut off by the
priesthood of Styphon, a rather political religious organization which
zealously guards the secret of the manufacture of gunpowder in order to
maintain its authority over the secular authorities.  However, the similarity
ends there: In _Lord Kalvan_, the kingdom is located on an alternative time-
line, and is saved by the arrival of a Pennsylvania state policeman who is
accidentally dropped there after being caught up in a parallel-time machine
malfunction.  Calvin Morrison (Kalvan) fortunately knows the military history
of our own 17th century thoroughly, and is able to apply the lessons learned
to the situation in which he finds himself.  In "GG", the kingdom is located
on a distant planet and is saved by the intervention of a trading company
scout team with contra-gravity vehicles and machine guns, who massacre the
opposition in the course of a couple of days.

One of these is an exciting adventure story; the other was only reprinted
to round out an author's Complete Works collection.  What is the difference?
In Kalvan, the hero is challenged by the situation and has to struggle for
success.  In "GG", the heroes smash everything in sight without working
up a sweat.  

Our games should resemble the former more than the latter.  The advantage of 
the Old Imperium was that there were many planets providing _different_
levels of challenge, allowing the referee to provide interesting situations
without straining our sense of disbelief.  How is a ref supposed to keep 
a game challenging when nearly every obstacle in the path of the characters
can be removed by blowing everything to bits?  It's not even like the Imperials
will hunt you down and send you to the Prison Planet (Adventure 8 (-:) if you
do something too antisocial.  Sure, you _could_ play the game without falling
into the "I've got the biggest gun" rut, but the internal checks and balances
of the setting have been removed.

Ah well--I've always maintained a continuously progressing timeline in my
own infrequent games, and for _me_, the year is still 1108.  It'll take
me a while to get to the point where I have to decide about the Rebellion.

Is civilization collapsing up there, ahead of me?  We'll see when we get 
there.  But if it is, I think the universe is going to be a dull sort of 
place, without the ability to inspire the near-fanatical devotion that we
oldtimers seem to have for the game.

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Bundle: 457
Archive-Message-Number: 5448
Date: Tue, 11 May 1993 12:30:11 +0100 (BST)
From: Stewart Eyres <spe@jb.man.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: TML biweekly: Msgs 5428-5437 V35#1

Hi

If I remember my fusion physics correctly,  most of the energy released in
a fusion reactor is carried away in the form of atomic and subatomic
particles.  The JET experiment in plasma confinement indicated that  the
proposed follow up reactor experiments would require a Lithium blanket to
absorb the most dangerous products, and the generated heat would be fed
off to produce electricity.  In addition, it may be possible to tap the
energy of particles not absorbed by Lithium (and the other sheild
materials) by using a sort of reverse particle accelerator.  As to
neutrinos, as they have virtually no mass, and only posess the property of
'spin', and an electron and a proton (or heavier particles) are produced
with every neutrino, I do not think that significant energy loss will be
due to neutrinos.

In Traveller terms, the TL 9 reactors are production models of the current
experimental plans, while the increased efficiency comes from a
combination of perfection of particle accelerator technology, and the
introduction of gravitic (to supplement magnetic) plasma confinement. 
Given the existence of neutrino sensors, it may be ossible to 'capture'
the energy lost by neutrino emission.  However, as powerplants are
detected by neutrino sensors according to their output, regardless of TL,
this is either not widespread or not efficient.

Stewart							spe@jb.man.ac.uk
 



------------------------------

Bundle: 457
Archive-Message-Number: 5449
From: u9019138@athmail1.causeway.qub.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Damage system? 
Date: Tue, 11 May 93 17:41:30 BST


>I take it you use the normal chart for hit location?  And then apply the damage
>to that location only?  I.e. a hit in the arm resulting in a serious would
>be a serious wound for the arm?

No and yes

Damage locations

 1  Head
 2  Upper R Torso
 3  Upper L Torso
 4  Lower torso
 5  R Arm
 6  L Arm
 7  Upper R leg
 8  Lower R leg
 9  Upper L leg
10  Lower L leg

Roll for hit location.
Then apply damage to table

In our Cyberpunk campaigns we divide weapon damage to arms and legs
by two but double that done to the head region.

ALL WOUNDS ARE CUMULATIVE

In some less-deadly campaigns it would be advisable to increase the
damage increments on the Wound Table

Instead of 1-2
           3-4
           5-6

use   1-3
      4-6
      7-9

OK

Live long and prosper in the New Era

Matt

------------------------------

Bundle: 457
Archive-Message-Number: 5450
Subject: TNE as the cyberpunk FICTION of the Traveller universe?
Date: Wed, 12 May 93 15:52:31 CDT
From: goldman@orac.cray.com (Goldman of Chaos -- postmaster CRI-US)
Reply-To: goldman@orac.cray.com

I had an interesting thought to share with you.  What if MegaTraveller
and TNE are just the 'dark future' *fiction* of the Classic Traveller
universe?  Strephan was never assassinated, except in underground
comics.  That could also explain the huge number of typos.
MegaTraveller and TNE are put out from someone's basement.  Perhaps
they are funded by SORAG?  Some rich brat with too much money?  And
perhaps there are even some very low tech, backwater planets that
actually believe it.

Matt

Here are some useful news articles.  They are in need of polishing up
due to my being at work without any sourcebooks.

132-1231 Capitol/Core:  The Imperial government today announced that 
the rumors of Emperor Strephan's death are greatly exaggerated.  All 
citizens are urged to report sources of such rumors to the nearest 
Bureau of State Security office.

132-1231 Trin/Trin's Veil: The "Arrivial Vengance" which had been 
missing from orbital dock returned today.  The Vengance reported 
that the Imperium has NOT fallen, and that the Emperor Strephan is 
in good health.

170/1231 Esalin/Jewell: The Zhodani Government exchanged long lost
Imperial citizen Mark Miller for an undesclosed number of Imperial 
captured Zhodani spies.  The captured spies had been attempting to
incite rebellion within the Imperium.  The spies were captured days
earlier in a raid by the IISS.

- -- 
Matthew Goldman  E-mail: goldman@orac.cray.com Work: (612) 683-3061

	Buddy: "Why do I always have to go first?"
	Sally: "Because you're expendable."

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Sun May 16 22:00:02 EDT 1993
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #458: Msgs 5451-5462 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Sun May 16 22:00:02 EDT 1993
Reply-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun May 16 22:00:02 EDT 1993
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #458: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 458  5451 12-May-1993 Steven Gott      Re: Damage system. << On Wed, 12 May 19
 458  5452 12-May-1993 helm@geology.uc  << Hello again I am posting this throug
 458  5453 12-May-1993 helm@geology.uc  Kellerer posts << I managed to send out
 458  5454 13-May-1993 Jo Jaquinta      An Eulogy for Metlay << "A voice is hea
 458  5455 13-May-1993 Steven Gott      wound effects in the task related damma
 458  5456 13-May-1993 helm@geology.uc  Jim Kellerer various/part 2 of 2 << Thi
 458  5457 13-May-1993 Colin Roald      Re: Gaming styles << >  Alas, Metlay, t
 458  5458 13-May-1993 l.wiseman1@geni  TNE << Traveller: The New Era is shippi
 458  5459 12-May-1993 "Pedro A.C. Tav  RE: damage system << To Steven Gott
 458  5460 14-May-1993 Greg Givler      Re: An Eulogy for Metlay << Jo Jaquinta
 458  5461 14-May-1993 Greg Givler      Re: Wound effects in the Task Damage Sy
 458  5462 14-May-1993 Greg Givler      Murder in Traveller, a Reply to Jim Kel

------------------------------

Bundle: 458
Archive-Message-Number: 5451
Date: Wed, 12 May 1993 14:08:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steven Gott <sgott@u.washington.edu>
Reply-To: Steven Gott <sgott@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Damage system.



On Wed, 12 May 1993, Bill Wilson wrote:

> I like your ideas!  However, I have some questions.  How do you handle the
> different calibers and their knock-down power?  Getting hit by a .380
> would be "easier" to withstand than say a .45 or .357.  Any ideas?
> 
> -- 
> Let sleeping dragons lie........                    | The RoleMancer 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------

I talked to a friend of mine who is very interseted in these kinds of
things and he thought there was a book called HANDGUN STOPPING POWER by
someone named Evan Marshall.  It would probably tell you more than you
ever needed to know.

I did find this in my notes.

handgun round		1 shot stop percentage
 .380ACP			50% - 75%
 .45ACP			62% - 88%
9mm Para		62% - 91%
 .357 Mag		75% - 96%

A one shot stop was defined as the target stopped attacking (dropped
weapon etc) or if the target is running that he falls to the ground after
at most 4 steps...

The results supposedly were compiled from actual shootings.

So how does this compare to my dammage system?  

I broke habdguns down into 3 categories Light, Substansive and Greivious.

I would say that your typical .380 hardball FMJ is a light
 .45ACP and 9mm para is a medium (substansive) 
and the the Magnums are heavy (greivious)

I hope that this helps a little

Steve Gott 



------------------------------

Bundle: 458
Archive-Message-Number: 5452
Date: Wed, 12 May 1993 15:50:25 PDT
From: helm@geology.ucdavis.edu

Hello again I am posting this through Catie Helm because I (still)
don't have net access. thanks Catie. Now on to our irregularly
scheduled post ( rant?! :-) ). Part 1... >> What's the Traveller
equivalent of a Star Wars Blaster?  Is there one?

> Recreating Star Wars using Traveller is a matter of making a number
of decisions regarding translation.  My inclination would be to treat
the  Star Wars blaster as a laser pistol, 

the only thing I can think of is a weak plasma pistol, best fits the
bill although you could make a good pulse laser argument, actually the
more I think about it I would probably use the laser for the damage in
Traveller. If I were using the Trav/T:TNE system for star wars I would
probably use both the laser and plasma depending on how heavy a weapon
it is, and to whom it belongs (heavier stuff is illegal ;-)).

>and the Force as straight psionics.

Well yes and no, the Jedi were able to do some absolutely astounding
things, and I don't see an exact equivalency here, the Traveller
Psionics are quite a bit weaker, so I feel that when you tap into the
"Force" you are no longer using psi points to gain your effects. The
only way to learn how to do this is find a teacher ( good luck ;-), it
is possible, a couple of members of my group have met such a person but
don't know him/her yet).

> It's the light saber that is hard to translate, since I can't come up
with a good explanation for it that doesn't involve force field tech
that Traveller doesn't have.

	Not that hard.  The light saber is, essentially, ancient
technology in the hands of a small religious sect, powered (if I recall
correctly) by the psionic energy of the user (aka The Force).  Light
sabers in Star Wars weren't something you could pick up down at the
corner Sears.  They were legendary in their ability to penetrate
whatever you stuck 'em in, only the jedi had 'em, and the jedi built
their own. Steven J. Owens

I agree with this, and I am using an idea from DGP Digest # 14, 15, 16,
and 17. " The Order of the White Star" an order of Psionic knights
formed in 640 by the direct order of Empress Arbellatra, and was open
to any knight with psionic powers, "They had gained some amount of fame
due to the valor of their members." in 824 they were betrayed and
destroyed,(sounds like the jedi to me :-)), and there is no mention of
it in present library data. It went underground and still exists and is
dedicated to upholding the Empire. Unfortunately there is a group that
fled to the sword worlds and are called the Order of the Red star ,
they are dedicated to overthrowing the Empire that threw them out. Some
of the Nobility know of the White Star and some times will Knight a
person into it ( all under cover ;-)). As you can see this adds even
more complexity to an already complex political situation.

Pallique: M. Metlay produced an interesting planet I may use it, but
with the changes caused by the changing fortunes of the Imperium I
think that there might be some changes going on. ( could make the place
even more dangerous! ;-) ). I think that he did a good design on it and
it fits the purpose of the owners very well and  that can do for an
explanation for it's conditions. Scott 2-G Kellog(g) :-) et, all this
was posted as an example and for use, if you see fit I think we have
used more than enough band width over it. Bored are we? Just waiting
for  T:TNE Eh? :-) On to another subject: some of my players thought I
should post this... ( Sigh... I can see the flames rising around me...
:-) ).

 We have been thinking a lot about the Zhodani lately and getting into
their heads ( different, but fun :-) ) Scott might not agree with some
of our conclusions but here are a couple. They are a conservative
people with a very strong sense of propriety, Due to the pervasive use
of telepathy they are a culture heading towards stagnation ( Most
individuals would not notice or realize this trend ). They depend on
the tavrchedl to take care of all of their problems. Because of this
they are also very law abiding. They also tend to think of us, (
sneaky, under-handed, lying, evil ), Denebians as shockingly informal.
Patience is not something that they are long on either, as they are so
direct and forthright. While I am on the subject here is something
Catie and I came up with over some coffee ( it is ALWAYS over coffee
:-) ). What do Zhodani Guards or Commandos do during those long
jumps...? Here it is. We bring you: Ta Da! Telepuck...

It's a simple game. You divide the teleports into two teams ( your
offensive line ). Anyone else who wants to play is on either team ( the
defensive line ). There are three goals... one for each team and one
for the puck... Oh yea! the puck. The puck is a nonteleport who can use
any of the resources of the ship ( no lethal weapons or force allowed
). If the puck can make it to his/her goal, the puck wins. Game over.
If one of the teams carries the puck from three meters outside of their
goal, into it, they win. If a player injures the puck, the puck wins by
forfeit. ( Psionic control is necessary for the games... ). If the puck
should injure a player, oh well. Telepathy may be used for locating or
communications, but not control. As you can see it can be a lot like
rugby. It is, after all, a full contact sport. Usually, one team or the
other will win, but if the puck is resourceful, he/she can win. An
interesting idea, no? They probably have teams throughout the
Consulate, and resourceful pucks are much honored. ( As you can tell,
we spend a lot of game time on what our characters are doing during
jump :-). In fact  I  feel that a lot of gammers miss out on this, "So
ok we're in jump when we get out..."                                   
            Really guys, if you have been jumping and skimming and
jumping, your crew is going to get weird on you, practical jokes etc.
and after a few weeks they WILL WANT OFF... ask any submariner you know
how 6 weeks under water affects them.

Jim Kellerer


------------------------------

Bundle: 458
Archive-Message-Number: 5453
Date: Wed, 12 May 1993 16:00:28 PDT
From: helm@geology.ucdavis.edu
Subject: Kellerer posts

I managed to send out Jim Kellerer's post (one of two - I'll
post the second tomorrow, so as not to  swamp the TML all at 
once with one monster post) without an intro note...

So this can't be an intro note - so make it a postscript...

Please be aware that any replies to Jim's posts can't happen
in real time, because he's not on internet, and also, I only
drop off TMLs to him once a week (if that).  If you want to
reply to Jim and want it to get to him faster than I can drive
the TML to him, email me directly and I can possibly get 
replies to him faster.

_Catie Helm_


------------------------------

Bundle: 458
Archive-Message-Number: 5454
From: Jo Jaquinta <jaymin@maths.tcd.ie>
Subject: An Eulogy for Metlay
Date: Thu, 13 May 93 16:41:17 BST

"A voice is heard in Ramah, lamentation and bitter weeping...she is 
weeping for her children, refusing to be comforted, for they are no more."

	A bell tolls, ringing in a New Era, a Next Generation, but ask,
be sure to ask, for whom the bell tolls. Does it toll for you? Metlay,
having the benefit of the first supplement of TNE (it will get to
Ireland some year) has heard the tolling for some time and with many
mixed feelings lifted the lid of the coffin to view his own face.
	I can say that at the very start, when GDW first announced
that they were scrapping the wonderful MegaTraveller rules, I felt
the distant echoes of that bell tolling through my heart. My brooding
has not been the sudden post-natal depression but rather the growing
forboding of a good friend slowly growing away from you.
	Alas, Metlay, the future is not ours. The wheel has turned
and gaming isn't what it once was. I have seen the targeted
audience of Role Playing Games move slowly downward, seen the
cycle of a generation change. The clientel for the gaming industry
is different now. Is it surprising that we no longer find it
attractive?
	When we reach the point where after making some off-handed
comment at a convention about rolling on some table to be turned to 
and have sneered at me "Dice? We don't need no stinking dice!"
(and *they* were playing Paranoia). This is the age of Angst and
Cathartic role-playing.
	Most new players of RPGs today were still in diapers when
Star Wars was first released. They are barely aware of a Star Trek
before the Next Generation. They watch Forbidden Planet and laugh
at the special effects.
	It's not for us they write anymore.

	But what to do?
	The temptation is to close the coffin, join the funeral
dirge and pass on. Just like all our friends who used to role-play.
Maybe our kids will understand.
	But it is people like you and me, Rob Dean and company that
have resisted the pull of Old Age and kept gaming. Who were sneered
at by their elders and betters for playing make-believe and told
"you'll grow out of it". We who swore a vow that well keep gaming
till he have grandchildren. Can we give up now?
	I never liked the Rebellion. Not three months ago did I find 
all the Classic Traveller books on sale and buy them all. Hell, I still 
prefer 1st Edition AD&D. When 2nd Edition AD&D came out I was very
dissapointed. A great opportunity had been missed. Of the new released
products I found fewer and fewer usable (and fewer and fewer affordable).
	But then, with 10 years of inertia behind my campaign I
was writing most of my own material anyway. Given the derath of support
for Traveller over the years by GDW/Digest can you honestly say that
you have been relying on their supplements for the continuation of
your own campaign? Do you not have enough experience to move from 90%
of your own work to 100%? Where is the courage of your own convictions?
	I really began to understand the generation gap two weeks ago.
A new fellow in the campaign expressed suprise that I had something that
would play "vinals" attached to my stereo system. He brought some of his
parent's collection over to hear. He didn't know how to work it. He didn't
know about wiping the record when you put it on. He didn't know what to
do when it skipped. He didn't even know that you could tell where each
track started by the gap on the record.
	Our age, and the age we started playing these games at makes
us Dinosaurs. There will always be more people who don't understand us
at games conventions than who do. But with the experience of the hobby
we have there is no reason we can't just keep going. My own campaign
spans the age groups from 14 to 28. The younger ones know my style is
not like any of their friends but they see that there is equal merit
there.
	Keep going.

	Being only distantly informed of The New Era setting, I too, agree
in that it seems rather boring. Or rather, interesting if you are into
that, and only that, sort of thing. However, I would offer a partial
solution. One that allows you to keep your 3rd imperium and all its
interest but still gives you an excuse to buy the new material and get
something out of it.
	In playing with the AD&D rules I devised a wonderful variant
that got rid of classes and levels. I thought it was great but I knew
it would be totally impratical to change all the inertia already built
up in my campaign. My solution was to have the rules apply to a certain
point earlier in the history of my campaign universe.
	The Long Night happened once. The Rebellion was supposed to be
a prelude to a second Long Night. Are the specifics that different so
that you couldn't run The New Era material set in the original Long Night?
How dependant is the new setting on the events leading to the arrivial
of the setting or how depenant is it on the existance of widespread
barbarism itself?
	If a particularly interesting supplement for TNE comes out
why not run it as a break for your players. If your 3rd Imperium characters
are dealing with adventures relating to The Long Night, possibily in an
archeological sense, it might make for interesting tie-ins. More blantant
plot-devices are Long Night characters getting trapped in an Ancient's
statis field and being brought to adventure in the 3rd Imperium once
The Long Night got boring. Rather more blantant is some 3rd Imperium characters
finding a time-gate back to The Long Night (I find backwards time travel
distasteful, though).
	It could be a really interesting once-off convention adventure
having one table playing a TNE/Long Night adventure involving the recovery
of an ancient artifact that suddenly energises, and another table playing
a 3rd Imperium adventure on an archeological dig around the same
artifact. Suddenly the two adventures are joined ending up in either
time-line. THAT would be an adventure worthy of Classic Traveller.

	Keep positive.
	Keep thinking.
	Keep gaming.
					Jo

------------------------------

Bundle: 458
Archive-Message-Number: 5455
Date: Thu, 13 May 1993 12:42:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steven Gott <sgott@u.washington.edu>
Subject: wound effects in the task related dammage system


Thank you for your comments.  Most of my local players don't like the task
dammage system so I'm glad SOMEONE does!

I think that there are something like 7 versions of the TASK system
floating around so bear with me if I don't follow the exact format.

Wound Effects:

Scratch/Bruise		I dunno maybe a -1 to the roll for all tasks that
			use the area wounded.  
			(for the d20 system only, no effect otherwise)

Light Wound		-1 to Inititive (cumulative)

Substantive Wound	Increase the level of difficulty of all tasks by one

Greivious Wound		Fall unconscious Bleed a Lot

Mortal Wound		Fall Dead (as expected)

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
When you take a wound you roll vs. your Willpower, Determination, whatever
the game system has that fits this idea.

Success means that you ignore the wound.

Failure means that you must take all of the stacked up wound effects,
realize that you are hurt and deal with the wounds as best as you can.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
At the end of a combat you take all of the wound effects that were
successfully ignored during the fight. "Gosh! I'm Bleeding"

First Aid:	Handle it according to your game rules

Notes:		It is possible to fight beyond death in this system.  This
may not be *real* but we are playing a game and the *point* is to have fun
and I think it may be more heroic.

		Combat is very uncertain.  Most games make it everything
but uncertain.  AD&D:  an arrow does say 1D6 I have 52 Hit points therefore
it the bad guy has an arrow pointed at me I rush him take the hit which
has no detrimental effect and hopefully wipe him out.  I hate this! 
Wounds hurt!  They slow you down!  They make everything harder!

		I haven't really included dammage ratings for weapons
because this IMO is very campaign specific and at least in the modern
world out of date almost before I can find out about it.  So figure them
out as you like for your own campaigns.

Suggestions:

Have the weapon dammage rating be the typical dammage delivered from a typical
strike.  This lets the less vital / vital / very vital hit locations to
work for good, bad, and typical hits.

IMO 10% of the Human Bod is less vital
    80% is vital and 
    10% is very vital
 	
    Provided for random hit location


Armor:

If the Armor could stop the attack from contacting the flesh, drop the
wound level by 2 steps to a minimum of Scratch/Bruise

If not, then drop the level of the wound by 1 step if you think the armor
should reduce the dammage.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
The purpose of this article was to show that there might be a better way. 
We could look at combat from a differant perspective and make it more
*real* instead of more detailed.

I hope you like it and it wasn't a wasted of 'bandwidth'
|=}
Steven Gott


------------------------------

Bundle: 458
Archive-Message-Number: 5456
Date: Thu, 13 May 1993 14:46:59 PDT
From: helm@geology.ucdavis.edu
Subject: Jim Kellerer various/part 2 of 2

This is part 2 of 2 of Jim Kellerer's post
Again, Jim gets his TMLs via me, whenever I can get down to his place
and pass him a disk...he cannot reply in realtime to any comments
you may want to pass his way.
_Catie Helm_
__________________________________________________________________

Hi again; Catie is doing my post part 2:
topsy... no that was Little Stevie Wonder...

Next: I have had Survival Margin for almost a month along with MegaTrav
Journal #4. Found them the same day in the same shop. GameScape, 333
Divisidero, San Francisco. Survival Margin: I have to also give it two
thumbs up. If this is an example of the quality of GDW's new stuff I am
looking forward to T:TNE. I have read most of the objections to the
scenario of the Regency, I somewhat agree with them, but I am willing
to work around it in view of the plot device. The Virus: As a computer
jock, I have a problem, but granting the existance of the Cymbeline
life form, and I can not find myself denying the possibility,
especially when one of my players has more problems with the Vargr as
a possible life form; had to do with the bone structure and build; as
she designed sculptures that had believable internal structure, and
studied that, so they would.  She also had problems with them wearing
bucket topped boots, and pants on a furred race doesn't make a whole
lotta sense. ( ducking and running for cover screaming "No Flames, No
Flames...ARRRRRRRGH!" :-)) I can believe the virus ... just maybe... (
getting back to the point.) I loved the quotes from the "papers" of the
movers and shakers, How many of you read those carefully? ( lets see a
show of hands :-), Ok).

- -- SPOILER -- SPOILER -- SPOILER -- SPOILER -- SPOILER -- SPOILER --

Ok I guess I gave enough warning...

IRIS ???! I guess they put one over on all of us pretty good, hunhg!

Project Longbow... I wonder what that's all about. I notice that was
where Strephon was going when "he" was assassinated, and he couldn't
tell anybody about it! If I read Pentecost's report right; whatever it
is, should arrive at Meridian 78, Prime Redial, ( where ever that is -
any of you have a clue? :-)), in 1205 ! and are the Zhodani victims
just as we are ?? what is Jumpstart it looks like interesting times in
70 years. never mind that my group is not through 1118 yet I'd still
like to know what is in store for us. I will probably play through the
approching "interesting times" especially the getting closer of the
Domain and the Consulate. Then there is the next Core Expedition due to
leave in 1150 or 1160. How about a combined Zhodani - Domain crewed
expedition?

I converted one of my player characters from MT to T:TNE. It wasn't to
hard except for her psionics I'll have to wait for the rules for that,
Oh well.

Journal #4: Was one of the best DGP has done yet. Sadly the last
Traveller thing they will do. In the editorial they mention the titles
that they now will never put out. Hummm, I wonder if some one could get
the information that they had on "Zhodani and Droyne", "K'Kree and
Hivers", "Humans and Non - humans" , and "Robots and Cyborgs" for
publication if promised that the quality would be equal or better than
the previous stuff, It'd have to be converted ( Yet again ! ;-), Oh! I
think I see...) Lords of Thunder: a very well thought out campaign from
William H Keith Jr. I recommend it VERY highly it has some wonderful
detail and some unknown material about the K'Kree. Good stuff!  as well
as Gateway sector,Pirates, Pirate hunters,races of the sector. a K'Kree
vocabulary. All this is Campaign material! an article on "Imperial"
Law, Custom Ship Add-ons ( I like this one! ;-)), and I think my group
is going to be looking at it closely one likes the swimming pool, but I
think the illegal stuff will be their picks, an extended Q&A includes a
discussion of the Primordials, A three page discussion of their new
game AI, as well as a special offer for Traveller players, and a
potpourri of stuff called Through the years. Which has unpublished
memos from their archives giving their ideas for the future of
traveller, some are good ideas some are not useable
in my campaign but others may find them useable. "The Badies from the
Core" Yup you guessed it ;-) the evil brain sucking Zho's, ( Again
reaching for the asbestos pants knowing Scott 2G is out there
somewhere... ;-)), went and ran into something they can't handle. Ya
know, I guess great minds do think alike, I have been building toward
that very same direction for some time now. :-) Honest... really.
Overall I think that it is well worth the $12.95 for 105 pages chock
full of information. Ok, ok, so some of the artwork is reprinted it is
all nice stuff and the quality is what I've come to expect of DGP.
Their new game looks good too, but it's not Traveller, so here is not
the place to discuss it. Good bye guys it's been fun and I've enjoyed
every product you've put out since Digest #8 ( my first one :-) ).

I think I'll bite the bullet, (as it were ), and go off, ( yes I know
I'm off ;-) ), and take off on a tangent. OK Guys I'm gonna make you
work for this one, and, I hope, a lot of band width. Just what do you
think high tech level Forensic science will be like  ( high tech level
= 13 - 15  ;-) ). How will criminal investigation work? I have only
seen this addresed in traveller as " you are on a ship in jump and you
have no equipment except your wits ( if any :-)) to find who did it." I
am thinking of a murder on ground that some of my players can get
involved in and I don't want the Lab to solve it for  them. I can
assume that if there are common devices that there will be illegal
methods around them but I find that I'm outa ideas. thanks for any
ideas at all.  ( Metlay, Scott 2g, Rob Dean you guys all seem to have
opinions on everything. :-) :-) ). waiting with baited breath and
muffled oar.

Jim Kellerer

------------------------------

Bundle: 458
Archive-Message-Number: 5457
Date: Thu, 13 May 93 22:09:30 EDT
From: Colin Roald <colin@callisto.pas.rochester.edu>
Subject: Re: Gaming styles

> 	Alas, Metlay, the future is not ours. The wheel has turned
> and gaming isn't what it once was. I have seen the targeted
> audience of Role Playing Games move slowly downward, seen the
> cycle of a generation change. The clientel for the gaming industry
> is different now. Is it surprising that we no longer find it
> attractive?

I guess I'm one of the younger generation (I was four, five? when
Star Wars came out, so I first knew of it from tacky plastic lunchboxes), 
so I'm not quite sure which aspect of role-playing you're lamenting, but 
I'd like to point out that serious, intelligent gaming aids are not 
entirely dead.  Steve Jackson Games still uses small print and 
proofreaders for their GURPS supplements.

On the other hand (aside from the rudeness, but then gamers are and
have always been a universally well-adjusted lot, yes?) I sympathise
entirely with the "who needs dice?" point of view, and I thought AD&D2
was an improvement (aside from the type size), so maybe I really
don't have a clue what you're talking about.



- --
colin | he rose from the dead, danced around, and went up into heaven. that's
roald | so cool.  jesus was way cool.  no wonder there are so many christians.
      |                                  (king missile, "jesus was way cool")

------------------------------

Bundle: 458
Archive-Message-Number: 5458
From: l.wiseman1@genie.geis.com
Date: Thu, 13 May 93 23:09:00 EDT
Subject: TNE

Traveller: The New Era is shipping to the distributors. CHeck your favorite
store in 10-14 days. If you don't live near to a store, you can order a copy
via Email (Visa or Mastercard).
 
 Its out folks!
 
   Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Bundle: 458
Archive-Message-Number: 5459
Date: 	Wed, 12 May 1993 12:23:53 -0400
From: "Pedro A.C. Tavares" <ftavares%ptearn.bitnet@utcc.utoronto.ca>
Subject:      RE: damage system

To Steven Gott

I kind of like your damage system but I'm a bit confused about it.  Maybe I've
been using the (hit/check location/check damage) system for too long.

How do you  modify wound type for armour?   and what happens when a character
has received n light wounds (for example).  How many does it take for him to
fall?

Just one last comment.  I didn't testplay your system yet but at 1st hand it
seems incredibly realistic form the victims point of view. Really nice

Pedro


PS: I just thought of solutions for the above.  about armour one can use it
as an asset for the task.  But this doesn't solve the cumulative effect of
several wounds.  maybe a solution is to use a 1 to 10 damage instead of the
5 types related to task difficulty.  Then the level of the wound would be an
asset for a (routine?) task.  Past wound woulds also act as assets adding to
the new one.

------------------------------

Bundle: 458
Archive-Message-Number: 5460
Subject: Re: An Eulogy for Metlay
Date: Fri, 14 May 93 9:04:52 EDT
From: Greg Givler <givler@bermuda.commodore.com>


Jo Jaquinta writes:

> "A voice is heard in Ramah, lamentation and bitter weeping...she is 
> weeping for her children, refusing to be comforted, for they are no more."
> 
> 	But what to do?
> 	The temptation is to close the coffin, join the funeral
> dirge and pass on. Just like all our friends who used to role-play.
> Maybe our kids will understand.
> [stuff delete ...]
> 	I never liked the Rebellion. Not three months ago did I find 
> all the Classic Traveller books on sale and buy them all. Hell, I still 
> prefer 1st Edition AD&D. When 2nd Edition AD&D came out I was very
> dissapointed. A great opportunity had been missed. Of the new released
> products I found fewer and fewer usable (and fewer and fewer affordable).

I too have never liked the Rebellion, which is why at present I am
working my group into position to game 'The Traveller Adventure'
personally I like the way the Adventure works. Also I equipped them
with the ship from Annic Nova. :-) One thing I did do is give them a
cantankerous(sp?) AI Computer sort of loosely based on Slave from
Blake 7. BTW, the Fifth Frontier War should start in my campaign in
about two years of game time. And when it does hopefully my party will
get to be in the thick of it. 

> 	But then, with 10 years of inertia behind my campaign I
> was writing most of my own material anyway. Given the derath of support
> for Traveller over the years by GDW/Digest can you honestly say that
> you have been relying on their supplements for the continuation of
> your own campaign? Do you not have enough experience to move from 90%
> of your own work to 100%? Where is the courage of your own convictions?

Unfortunately, I don't have the time. I know that I could not do what
Metlay does, of course it is obvious to me that he is a type A
personality. I am definitely not. I like to use many of the old
adventure, because most are pretty well written and complete and I
don't use the MT rules for much more than rolling up characters.
Everything else is sort of "OK, roll." I think of a number that they
need to succeed and say if they do or not. Sort of seat of the pants
stuff. I just try to be consistant. I have always felt that rules in
role playing games should be a frame work, not engraved in Granite.

> 	I really began to understand the generation gap two weeks ago.
> A new fellow in the campaign expressed suprise that I had something that
> would play "vinals" attached to my stereo system. He brought some of his
> parent's collection over to hear. He didn't know how to work it. He didn't
> know about wiping the record when you put it on. He didn't know what to
> do when it skipped. He didn't even know that you could tell where each
> track started by the gap on the record.

I have a player that was born when I was in High School, and he always
says to me, "Records, how quaint" but when you have the record
collection I have you need a turntable. I am in the process of
upgrading my Stereo system, and it is very difficult to find a
reasonably priced system that includes a turntable. 

> 	Our age, and the age we started playing these games at makes
> us Dinosaurs. There will always be more people who don't understand us
> at games conventions than who do. But with the experience of the hobby
> we have there is no reason we can't just keep going. My own campaign
> spans the age groups from 14 to 28. The younger ones know my style is
> not like any of their friends but they see that there is equal merit
> there.
> 	Keep going.

Gee, you guys are young, my last group went from 18-35. A Pendragon
campaign that I ran, I'm 35, had a member that was 50. Although I must
admit that since I started gaming back in the early 80's, 1981 to be
exact, I do start to feel like a Dinosaur. Most folks my age have
given up gaming. I admit that I don't do it very regularly anymore,
even though I am the GM. It is difficult to find a night that everyone
is free at the same time. 

>
> 	Keep positive.
> 	Keep thinking.
> 	Keep gaming.
> 					Jo
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Bundle: 458
> Archive-Message-Number: 5455
> Date: Thu, 13 May 1993 12:42:39 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Steven Gott <sgott@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: wound effects in the task related dammage system
> 
> 
> Thank you for your comments.  Most of my local players don't like the task
> dammage system so I'm glad SOMEONE does!
> 
> I think that there are something like 7 versions of the TASK system
> floating around so bear with me if I don't follow the exact format.
> 
> Wound Effects:
> 
> Scratch/Bruise		I dunno maybe a -1 to the roll for all tasks that
> 			use the area wounded.  
> 			(for the d20 system only, no effect otherwise)
> 
> Light Wound		-1 to Inititive (cumulative)
> 
> Substantive Wound	Increase the level of difficulty of all tasks by one
> 
> Greivious Wound		Fall unconscious Bleed a Lot
> 
> Mortal Wound		Fall Dead (as expected)
> 
> - ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> When you take a wound you roll vs. your Willpower, Determination, whatever
> the game system has that fits this idea.
> 
> Success means that you ignore the wound.
> 
> Failure means that you must take all of the stacked up wound effects,
> realize that you are hurt and deal with the wounds as best as you can.
> 
> - --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> At the end of a combat you take all of the wound effects that were
> successfully ignored during the fight. "Gosh! I'm Bleeding"
> 
> First Aid:	Handle it according to your game rules
> 
> Notes:		It is possible to fight beyond death in this system.  This
> may not be *real* but we are playing a game and the *point* is to have fun
> and I think it may be more heroic.
> 
> 		Combat is very uncertain.  Most games make it everything
> but uncertain.  AD&D:  an arrow does say 1D6 I have 52 Hit points therefore
> it the bad guy has an arrow pointed at me I rush him take the hit which
> has no detrimental effect and hopefully wipe him out.  I hate this! 
> Wounds hurt!  They slow you down!  They make everything harder!
> 
> 		I haven't really included dammage ratings for weapons
> because this IMO is very campaign specific and at least in the modern
> world out of date almost before I can find out about it.  So figure them
> out as you like for your own campaigns.
> 
> Suggestions:
> 
> Have the weapon dammage rating be the typical dammage delivered from a typical
> strike.  This lets the less vital / vital / very vital hit locations to
> work for good, bad, and typical hits.
> 
> IMO 10% of the Human Bod is less vital
>     80% is vital and 
>     10% is very vital
>  	
>     Provided for random hit location
> 
> 
> Armor:
> 
> If the Armor could stop the attack from contacting the flesh, drop the
> wound level by 2 steps to a minimum of Scratch/Bruise
> 
> If not, then drop the level of the wound by 1 step if you think the armor
> should reduce the dammage.
> 
> - --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The purpose of this article was to show that there might be a better way. 
> We could look at combat from a differant perspective and make it more
> *real* instead of more detailed.
> 
> I hope you like it and it wasn't a wasted of 'bandwidth'
> |=}
> Steven Gott
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Bundle: 458
> Archive-Message-Number: 5456
> Date: Thu, 13 May 1993 14:46:59 PDT
> From: helm@geology.ucdavis.edu

Greg Givler


------------------------------

Bundle: 458
Archive-Message-Number: 5461
Subject: Re: Wound effects in the Task Damage System
Date: Fri, 14 May 93 9:23:17 EDT
From: Greg Givler <givler@bermuda.commodore.com>


Steve Gott write:

> 
> Thank you for your comments.  Most of my local players don't like the task
> dammage system so I'm glad SOMEONE does!
> 
> I think that there are something like 7 versions of the TASK system
> floating around so bear with me if I don't follow the exact format.
> 

[ stuff deleted ...]

> When you take a wound you roll vs. your Willpower, Determination, whatever
> the game system has that fits this idea.
> 
> Success means that you ignore the wound.
> 
> Failure means that you must take all of the stacked up wound effects,
> realize that you are hurt and deal with the wounds as best as you can.
> 


I don't know if you have played the game Pendragon, but one of the
reasons that I like it so much is its combat system. You have a set
number of hit points as in most games and weapons do a certain range
of hit points damage but the system if very elegant and simple to use.
Basically each player in combat makes a roll. You succeed by rolling
your skill or less on a D20. If you roll you skill exactly you have a
critical success and double the amount of dice to roll for damage. If
your opponent succeeds, then the one with the higher roll is the
attacker and the other is the defender who has been able to get his
shield in the way of the blow. You then roll for damage subtracting
the amount of armor from your damage if the result is greater than
zero then that damage is applied as a wound. Very simple system with
very little rolling to resolve combat. 

The reason that I bring this up is the the way that they handle
unconsciencness. There is a point, 1 quarter of your hit points, which
you have a chance to fall unconscience. If you go below this level
then for every action that you attempt, you must roll a successful
Valor roll. I feel this system works well. One thing that I have
always hated was too many rolls. One of the reasons that I have
avoided playing RuneQuest and Chivalry and Sorcery. 

> Steven Gott

Greg Givler

------------------------------

Bundle: 458
Archive-Message-Number: 5462
Subject: Murder in Traveller, a Reply to Jim Kellerer
Date: Fri, 14 May 93 9:35:58 EDT
From: Greg Givler <givler@bermuda.commodore.com>

Jim Kellerer writes:

> I think I'll bite the bullet, (as it were ), and go off, ( yes I know
> I'm off ;-) ), and take off on a tangent. OK Guys I'm gonna make you
> work for this one, and, I hope, a lot of band width. Just what do you
> think high tech level Forensic science will be like  ( high tech level
> = 13 - 15  ;-) ). How will criminal investigation work? I have only
> seen this addresed in traveller as " you are on a ship in jump and you
> have no equipment except your wits ( if any :-)) to find who did it." I
> am thinking of a murder on ground that some of my players can get
> involved in and I don't want the Lab to solve it for  them. I can
> assume that if there are common devices that there will be illegal
> methods around them but I find that I'm outa ideas. thanks for any
> ideas at all.  ( Metlay, Scott 2g, Rob Dean you guys all seem to have
> opinions on everything. :-) :-) ). waiting with baited breath and
> muffled oar.

Well, I don't know if you have ever seen the Classic Traveller
Adventure "Murder on Arturus Station" But I feel it is a classic.
You're party is asked by the station manager to help solve the murder
of someone aboard the station. It is a very well done module. And the
best thing is that you can change the killer each time that you play
the adventure, so even someone who has played the Adventure could do
it again the next time because the solution can be different each
time. Unfortunately it does not rely on forsenic science so there are
no helps there. It relies on character interaction, which I think is
the best part of role playing anyway. The GM has to play many parts
male and female each with their own motives and alibis. If you can
find it pick it up I think it may help. It has the feel of the Maltese
Falcon or an Agatha Christy murder mystery. Except in this case all
the clues are there for the hunting. What it basically boils down to
is good ole police work. Searching for clues and talking to suspects.
Of course everyone is a suspect and almost all have means, motive and
opportunity. 


> 
> Jim Kellerer

Greg Givler

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Wed May 26 22:00:02 EDT 1993
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #459: Msgs 5463-5483 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Wed May 26 22:00:02 EDT 1993
Reply-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed May 26 22:00:02 EDT 1993
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #459: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 459  5463 14-May-1993 Scott S. Kellog  Trav: NE << Greetings Crew,
 459  5464 14-May-1993 netoprbl@unity.  alternate universes << so why not just 
 459  5465 15-May-1993 R.W. Moore       TNE in the UK? << Great so TNE is final
 459  5466 16-May-1993 PIERRE-LOUIS CO  Cities in flight << Hello!
 459  5467 16-May-1993 Leonard Erickso  missing Digest <<  
 459  5468 17-May-1993 Mark Watson      Traveller in the UK << > Great so TNE i
 459  5469 17-May-1993 Derek Wildstar   Traveller Wake << I'm in the planning s
 459  5470 18-May-1993 Anthony Neal     Forensics at TL 13 - 15... << Greetings
 459  5471 18-May-1993 Alan Huscroft    Re: Traveller in the UK << > > Great so
 459  5472 18-May-1993 u9019138@athmai  Re: Traveller in the UK << SM is in Vir
 459  5473 18-May-1993 Bertil Jonell    Re: Traveller in the UK << > From: Mark
 459  5474 19-May-1993 "cbr::pihlab"@c  RE:  Alternate TimeLine bypassing the R
 459  5475 19-May-1993 "cbr::pihlab"@c  RE: Traveller in the UK << Our local ga
 459  5476 18-May-1993 Mr David R Armo  TNE in UK << Hello all,
 459  5477 17-May-1993 l.wiseman1@geni  Replies <<  
 459  5478 20-May-1993 Jo Jaquinta      Re: Gaming Styles << Colin Roald writes
 459  5479 22-May-1993 Colin Roald      Re:  Gaming Styles << > From: Jo Jaquin
 459  5480 23-May-1993 Pauli            Re: Gaming Styles << Nice comments by J
 459  5481 24-May-1993 grue@cs.uq.oz.a  Games people play << hi,
 459  5482 24-May-1993 kirsch@rhea.inf  A Question on Physics << Hello fellow T
 459  5483 24-May-1993 metlay           This message has no Traveller content a

------------------------------

Bundle: 459
Archive-Message-Number: 5463
From: skellogg@lonestar.utsa.edu (Scott S. Kellogg)
Subject: Trav: NE
Date: Fri, 14 May 93 17:45:52 CDT

Greetings Crew,

Well, I got Survival Margin yesterday, and I have to say it is an
excellent quality product.  I must admit, after hearing Metlay and
Rob Dean's comment on it, plus the fact that the first half of the
book is dedicated to describing the masochistic death throws of the
game universe we have come to know and enjoy, I was not thrilled by
most of the content of it.  I now christen the book by it's
unofficial nickname:  S & M.

But basically, what do we have left?

The Spinward Marches is more or less intact.  Now remember that the
Marches is *THE* most detailed part of the entire Imperium.  There
are PLENTY of worlds in there for the type of adventure that we
have come to enjoy of the entire Imperium.  Rhylanor is still
there.  Regina, Mora and all the other high tech high population
planets that cause our imaginations to palpitate.

Confession time:
I have always felt uncomfortable trying to deal with the whole
bloody 3rd Imperium.  11,000 planets?  I have enough trouble trying
to understand how 240 million people on one CONTINENT can behave
(USA) I can't deal with trying to try and figure out what the whole
Imperium must be like.

I know I know I know.  I've seen Wildstar's projections of the
Imperial budget.  We all have...  Comprehend them?  Me?  FORGET IT!
S&M says that the Regency is basically the same old Imperium on a
smaller scale.  It's... What?  1/8th of the size of the Imperium?
Ok class, now what's Infinity divided by 8?

Infinity.  Dig?

The Regency is still too large for me to fully estimate.  To say
that the reduction in scale will affect campaigns is kinda silly to
me.

What *IS* lost are the areas of the Imperium that were interesting
because they were DIFFERENT from the Spinward Marches.  Gone are
the Vargr-Human integrated cultures of Antares.  Gone are the
Vilani cultures of Vland.  Gone are the Solomani and their
machinations.  Gone are the K'Kree and their...  frozen vegetables.

It is a great shame that in order to save the Regency, they had to
close the borders off.  If the refugees from these areas had come
in, it could have kept all of what I consider to be the good parts
of the 3rd Imperium.

Still, what *IS* left is my personal favorite part of the Imperium.
The Gveug Vargr are still there.  The Aslan Ihati are still there.
And the Zhodani are now the strongest force in the galaxy.

And who's to say that those other cultures WON'T show up in the
Regency?  There *are* Vilani worlds in the Marches.  There would
have been K'Kree and Hivers cut off from their homelands, cut off
by the border closings.  The Solsec agents, cut off from the
confederation could have finally set up the Spinward Marches branch
of the Solomani Party.  Now that the Vargr are at least partially
to thank for the saving of the Regency, maybe new integrated
cultures will spring forth.

So maybe we Didn't lose so much after all.  We can only hope so.

What has changed?  Psionics.  BOO!!!  I liked psi the way it was.
Hard to get and you better keep it HIDDEN.  Despite my strong
interest in the Zho's, I don't like psi.  Especially easily
obtainable psi.  I'd rather have people use their wits and
technology to get out of trouble.  I don't like magic.  And face it
psi is just magic spelled differently.  The legalization of psi
will decrease the enmity between the Zho's & the (Regents?).  Well,
that whole psi and anti-psi bit was too much fun for me.  I'm
sorrowed by it's passing.

Ok, so what do we GET for our losses?  Well, actually, I have to
admit, the remains of the Imperium start to look a lot more like my
own visions of my own version of the Traveller universe.  You may
recall from the 4.5th Frontier War, that my campaigns are almost
exclusively set in Iakr sector (Foreven to you Imps) which is just
spinward of the Marches.

Iakr was a sector I put together from worlds I made up, found in
amber zone articles, bits and pieces I found about Traveller and
even other game systems where I thought the idea was neat.  All of
it was outside the Imperium, and 80 % was outside the Consulate.
Sure, things got transplanted around.  The Dynchia got pulled in
from clear across the Imperium.  I pulled subsectors out of
Reaver's Deep.  I pulled 'em out of Trojan Reach & Far Frontiers.
Jungleblut Subsector from FASA was a personal fave.

Well, in Iakr, there are a lot of technologically poor worlds.  Or
worlds with weird technologies.  I recently made notes on putting
a version of Metlay's Pallique in there.  (I think it's a neat
idea, I just don't think it would really work inside the Imperium.)
Some of you may recall the chapters of the 4.5th Frontier War:
Down on Welles.  The world I came up with would never fit inside
the Imperium, but outside it worked.  It WOULD work in the TNE
Imperium.  A world conquered by a Technologically Elevated
Dictator, (equipped with grav powered Ironclads ala Space: 1889)
being invaded by rival bands of space vikings.

I wanted an opportunity to explore the planets I'd come up with.
With every world in the Imperium detailed (or some kind of detail
available to the players) there was no real opportunity for that.
Well, now they're gonna be publishing exploration and contact
adventures for planets which will FIT inside Iakr for me!  Lots of
unknown worlds surrounded by technologically advanced power hungry
neighbors.  (But don't count on me to be running a boot strap or
virus campaign any time soon.)

And furthermore, (if S&M's quality is any clue) these worlds will
be well thought out and free of typos!

About Longbow, I have my suspicions.  Longbow was supposed to
started long back five hundred years back.  TL 10-11-12?  Well, it
either sounds like a long range faster than light communications
system, or what I'd consider more likely:  Stutterwarp.  By making
it TL 10-11-12, that way it makes Stutterwarp a lot easier to
obtain.  Alternately it could be the Star Gates again.

All in all, I guess I'm looking forward to TNE.  Ya'll hear that?
I'll buy.  It has to be better than the MegaTrav setting.  I always
hated the rebellion.  I just hope there's a good craft & robot
design system.

Scott 2G Kellogg



------------------------------

Bundle: 459
Archive-Message-Number: 5464
From: netoprbl@unity.ncsu.edu
Subject: alternate universes
Date: Fri, 14 May 1993 16:46:17 -0400 (EDT)

so why not just great a group that works on an alternate universe where
the assassignation of strephon and the second Long Night never occur. Or
heck, start a campaign setting at another time period in the empire's
past, like during the Rule of Man!  I mean I guess the only thing to wait
for is the new rules so you can use them in relation to that....

The only problem i've had with this idea is that I don't want to create a
universe all by myself, but if a group of folks were to contribute...

Just a thought...

Brian Lane
Raleigh, NC

------------------------------

Bundle: 459
Archive-Message-Number: 5465
From: rwm12@cus.cam.ac.uk (R.W. Moore)
Subject: TNE in the UK?
Date: Sat, 15 May 1993 19:45:30 +0100 (BST)

Great so TNE is finally out in the states.....anyone have any idea how long
it will take to cross the atlantic to the UK?

Roger

------------------------------

Bundle: 459
Archive-Message-Number: 5466
From: PIERRE-LOUIS CONSTANTIN <consp00@dmi.usherb.ca>
Subject: Cities in flight
Date: Sun, 16 May 1993 10:26:55 -0400 (EDT)

Hello!

	Has anyone ever designed something similar to the "Cities in Flight"
vehicles?  I've been searching for a little while and I'm a bit surprised
to see that no-one has done it, considering the many references in Traveller
to Blish' books.

	So... Anyone?  Scott Kellog? :)  If someone has done them already,
any pointers?

- --
Pierre-Louis Constantin, consp00@dmi.usherb.ca 


------------------------------

Bundle: 459
Archive-Message-Number: 5467
Date: Sun, 16 May 93 08:43:18 PDT
From: Leonard.Erickson@f51.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: missing Digest

 
Could someone out there please send me a copy of TML_Night v54#16?
It apparently consists of *one* message (#5423).  I never got it and
I've gotten no response to my request for a replacement (sent to the
traveller-request address)

I *hate* having gaps in my archives!
- --  
uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!51!Leonard.Erickson
Internet: Leonard.Erickson@f51.n105.z1.fidonet.org

------------------------------

Bundle: 459
Archive-Message-Number: 5468
Date: 17 May 93 04:53:53 EDT
From: Mark Watson <100022.3361@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Traveller in the UK

> Great so TNE is finally out in the states.....anyone have any idea how long
> it will take to cross the atlantic to the UK?

Bloody ages. Still no sign of Survival Margin at my local stores. Challenge
comes in spits and starts and generally in the wrong order. GDW ought
to talk to DGP - Journal 4 came out here at about the same time as in the
US.
Mark


------------------------------

Bundle: 459
Archive-Message-Number: 5469
Date: Mon, 17 May 93 22:54:20 EDT
From: wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu (Derek Wildstar)
Subject: Traveller Wake


I'm in the planning stages for a Traveller "Wake", to be held in late June
or July (a little late, but what's a few weeks to an eleven hundred year
old empire?).  If you're interested in coming, you can help me plan!

I'm in the Rockville, Maryland area; near Washington DC (the Seat of Our
Government Inaction).  I'm considering the following dates:

June 25th or 26th
July 16th, 17th, 23rd, 24th, 30th, or 31st.

If you think you might be able to attend, send me E-Mail with your first
(and second, and nth) choice of dates, and I'll pick one that has the
best chance for most of us to attend.  Send you picks to:


wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                 Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                         in the Far Future



------------------------------

Bundle: 459
Archive-Message-Number: 5470
Date: 	Tue, 18 May 1993 01:34:24 -0230
From: Anthony Neal <anthonyn@odie.cs.mun.ca>
Subject: Forensics at TL 13 - 15...

Greetings Humanoids:

	I see someone looking for advice that I myself had a pondering about and
recently made a ruling. This might be helpful... Or not. Catie, could you see
that Jim Kellerer receives this post... Thanx!!

	Well Jim, I have taken to stealing from other games and supplements and 
trying to make a conversion to MegaTrav that I feel is resonable. Here's one
example...


FORENSICS KIT

This is a portable forensics lab, with a dedicated computer system capable of 
detection and chemical analysis of evidence. As well as ballistics analysis and 
finger and voice printing, the lab is capable of identifying and classifying 
hair,flesh scrapings and blood samples, and using them to determine the owner's 
genetic pattern. It is usually linked to a database containing detailed records 
on suspects to aid identification. Also contained is a still camera with 
reader. It comes in it's own carrying case.

	TL   Volume       Weight            Price
	--------------------------------------------
	12   30.0 litres  30.0 Kilograms    Cr 9,000



Aside:
	Well, I dunno. I put together this little thing to make my life a little
	more relaxing. Actually, it's pretty well stolen from the Criminology Kit
	in GURPS Cyberpunk, page 54. (Lawsuit???) but very bare bones translated.
	I figure the "Dedicated Computer" is some kinda expert system. Could be
	linked to a central database by comlink or cellular modem (whatever).
	For my purposes, the computer is a model/1bis. That's what the Hand
	Computer is supposed to be. Sure, there's a lotta room in the case for more
	hardware, but that's all they really need. The sensors are stolen from 
	the Electronic Locks section. Sure, they're a little more accurate, but
	it's a decent start for a homegrown piece of work. I have brought the 
	Cyberpunk and Ultratech Battery types into Traveller to make my life
	easier, seeing Trav won't make my life easy! Never could find definitive
	information about power pack size for laser weapons and other things.
	The above contraption runs off a C cell for three months. Powerful little
	cells. You could up the ante and put in more gizmos, but this should do.

	For the still camera above, I use a Digital Camera, which will get 3000
	still photos or 1 hour of video (Huh? ah well. probably a weak comarison.
	but it's my rule. Don't like it? Change it!) per 1.5 Gigabyte disk.

Anyhow, that's the stuff. Hope it helps. 

And to Loren Wiseman, where ever He may be... A question.

	My local hobby store, Timemasters, cannot bring in Traveller stuff 'cause
their supplier doesn't seem to have any in supply. Strange. They say that they
have been trying to get through to GDW to place orders and get left on hold.
To be frank, I don't care. What I've been wondering is something you mentioned
about ordering through EMail for stuff and sending payment. I am trying to
get my hands on copies of things like the Starship Operator's guide and Book
8: Robots. I know. Robots is out of print. But if there is a chance that I 
could eliminate the middleman and order straight from GDW, I'd be thrilled.

	Is this a reasonable idea? If not, sorry for bringing it up. If it is...

		DETAILS PLEASE!

	Thanks for the time...

	Now back to your regularly scheduled diversion...

	Anthony Neal

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Anthony Neal                 |"Lets bring up the cargo manifest. 2300 laser 
anthonyn@odie.cs.mun.ca      | pistols, 1600 laser rifles, 1 ATV, 67 suits of
Memorial University Of       | combat armor and...    What the hell are 
Newfoundland                 | 'tribbles'?"
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

Bundle: 459
Archive-Message-Number: 5471
Date: Tue, 18 May 93 09:18:59 BST
Subject: Re: Traveller in the UK
From: Alan Huscroft <asshuscr@reading.ac.uk>

> > Great so TNE is finally out in the states.....anyone have any idea how long
> > it will take to cross the atlantic to the UK?
>  
> Bloody ages. Still no sign of Survival Margin at my local stores. Challenge
> comes in spits and starts and generally in the wrong order. GDW ought
> to talk to DGP - Journal 4 came out here at about the same time as in the
> US.
> Mark

I don't know what part of the UK you're in, Mark, but I was in Virgin
Games Centre (Oxford Street, London) on Saturday.  Survival Margin was
on the shelves, and there was no sign of MTJ 4.

Alan
asshuscr@reading.ac.uk 

------------------------------

Bundle: 459
Archive-Message-Number: 5472
From: u9019138@athmail1.causeway.qub.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Traveller in the UK
Date: Tue, 18 May 93 10:44:52 BST


SM is in Virgin and in my local games shop and its very good and i
don't even live on mainland UK i live in northern ireland.

It arrived two weeks ago when it was being discussed on the list.

On a sidenote....has anybody theorised what is behind the black
curtain of lucans doom.

I decided to dig out my dark conspiracy books heh heh


Matt

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A spaceman came travelling on a ship from afar
twas light years of time since his mission did start
and over the earth he halted his craft
and it shone in the sky like a star

because he was using black war tactics
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

Bundle: 459
Archive-Message-Number: 5473
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Re: Traveller in the UK
Date: Tue, 18 May 1993 12:06:26 +0200 (MET DST)

> From: Mark Watson <100022.3361@CompuServe.COM>
> Subject: Traveller in the UK
> 
> > Great so TNE is finally out in the states.....anyone have any idea how long
> > it will take to cross the atlantic to the UK?
> 
> Bloody ages. Still no sign of Survival Margin at my local stores. Challenge
> comes in spits and starts and generally in the wrong order. GDW ought
> to talk to DGP - Journal 4 came out here at about the same time as in the
> US.

  I don't think the error is on GDW's side. Here in Gothenburg (Sweden) we 
usually get whatever comes out from any company within a month of it's US
release. I'd be surprised if the packages haven't gone over Heathrow or
Shiphol (its airfreight) on their way here, so the delay can't be in the
transfer times, nor at GDW.

  [Well, there's been trouble with Challenge here, but that seems to lie with
the distributor in the US, the resaler who buy them from GDW and resell them
overseas]

  A probable explanation is that the UK stores (and Austrialia?) don't order
as often as the stores here in Sweden, and when they order it might be surface
mail too? 
  The place where I usually buy rpg stuff generally gets one shipment every two
weeks and they get it directly from a distributor in the US.
  The reason why they have do it that way here is that people are used to get 
it quickly, and the store that got new stuff once every four months or so would
quickly go out of business. If there isn't any time competition, they can get
away with being slow and sporadic.

  So I suspect that the problem lies that the stores order too seldom, that 
they buy from a distributor in the UK that order too seldom or that they have
made a bad choise of US distributor to buy from.

> Mark

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Bundle: 459
Archive-Message-Number: 5474
Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 14:00:12 EDT
From: "cbr::pihlab"@cnb09w.hhcs.gov.au
Subject: RE:  Alternate TimeLine bypassing the Rebellion



Someone mentioned that they were considering building a source book for
continuing TRAVELLER on without having the Rebellion or the Virus.  I would
be interested in running in that Universe.

Suggested starting point would be the Assasination.  The Emperor is dead, long
live the Emperor.  Straight transition of power.  The big problem with the
Rebellion is that the nobles all took sides and this involved combat right
down to the planetary population level.  To trully work there has to be a
separation of the noble hierarchy and the planetary governments and populations.
I see no problem in the nobles fighting it out with their own private fleets
and such but the inperial fleets should have stood off and simply safeguarded
imperial installations and citizans.  Possibly, siding with the new Emperor
but only once officially recognized.  Until recognized, the fleets could have
stayed completely neutral.

As for the Virus ... never happened.  It's so far fetched that it wouldn't
work.


Alternate solution.  GrandFather heard the rucus and came to investigate.  Got
pissed off that a Virus had taken over his Tech 30 Computers and wiped the 
Virus out.  End of story.


Bruce...            pihlab@cbr.hhcs.gov.au

------------------------------

Bundle: 459
Archive-Message-Number: 5475
Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 13:49:03 EDT
From: "cbr::pihlab"@cnb09w.hhcs.gov.au
Subject: RE: Traveller in the UK


Our local games shop MUST order through the Australian supplier for ALL his
games because of the monopoly here.  Don't say this too loud too often but
the previous owner of the shop ordered direct and the OZ supplier found out
and a lot of orders started getting accidentally lost, really slow delivery,
and other unexplained random accidents.

I think the problem in the UK is that you're getting surface delivery rather
than AIR.  We get surface and it takes about 2 months.


Bruce...              pihlab@cbr.hhcs.gov.au

------------------------------

Bundle: 459
Archive-Message-Number: 5476
From: Mr David R Armour <ee89dra@surrey.ac.uk>
Subject: TNE in UK
Date: Tue, 18 May 93 9:25:58 BST

Hello all,

According to my local gamestore (Virgin Games ) TNE arrived in th UK
last Thursday/Friday.

It should hit the shelves sometime around this coming weekend !!!

Dave.
:------------------------------------------------------------------------------:
: David Armour  : 	ee89dra@ee.surr.ac.uk                                  :
:               :  Dept of Elec Eng, University of Surrey, Guildford. England  :
:---------------:--------------------------------------------------------------:

'Students made it long ago,' said Rincewind. 'Handy way in and out ofter lights
out.'
'Ah,' said Twoflower, 'I *understand*. ver the wall and out yo brightly lit
taverns to drink and sing and recite poetry, yes'
'Nearly right except for the singing and poetry, yes,' said Rincewind.
	(Terry Pratchett, The Light Fantastic)

------------------------------

Bundle: 459
Archive-Message-Number: 5477
From: l.wiseman1@genie.geis.com
Date: Mon, 17 May 93 22:16:00 EDT
Subject: Replies

 
     Responding to a number of queries:
 
      Challenge Contributors' guidelines are available free upon
  request, Email us your address and we'll snail-mail you a copy.
  We also have a catalog, a TNE promotional flyer, and a board
  wargames promotional flyer, available upon request.
 
     TNE price and shipping charges, for those who have asked how to
  order it direct (presumably you are not near a shop that carries
  our stuff regularly):
 
     US & Canada: $27.50 ($25.00+$2.50 p&h)
     UK (Airmail): $39.09 ($25.00+$14.09 airmail p&h)
     UK (Surface): $31.73 ($25.00+$6.73 p&h)
     Australia (Surface): $31.73 ($25.00+$6.73 p&h)
     Australia (Airmail): $44.41 ($25.00+$19.41 airmail p&h)
 
     Airmail can take from 7-10 days, surface can take several weeks
  (and neither of these takes into account any time the parcel may
  spend in customs, something which is totally unpredictable). If
  you want a special service like UPS Next Day Air or an air
  courier, let me know and I'll send you a specific price quote.
 
     I don't mean to leave out other nationalities, but US, UK, and
  Oz are the only ones to have enquired so far. I'll happily post
  price and shipping charges for anybody else who wants to order
  direct.
 
     Payment can be in the form of an international money order, a
  check in US dollars drawn on a US bank, or by Visa or Mastercard.
  If you choose to pay by credit card, we need the card number, the
  expiration date, and your name as it appears on the card. Credit
  card orders can be sent via Email.
 
 Loren K. Wiseman
         for GDW

------------------------------

Bundle: 459
Archive-Message-Number: 5478
From: Jo Jaquinta <jaymin@maths.tcd.ie>
Subject: Re: Gaming Styles
Date: Thu, 20 May 93 11:19:05 BST

Colin Roald writes:
>I guess I'm one of the younger generation ...
>so I'm not quite sure which aspect of role-playing you're lamenting, ...
>On the other hand ...  I sympathise
>entirely with the "who needs dice?" point of view, and I thought AD&D2
>was an improvement (aside from the type size), so maybe I really
>don't have a clue what you're talking about.
	Well, pull up a chair, sonny, and let me try to explain.
	The "new wave" role-playing style I termed "Angst and Cathartic"
role-playing. We have characters with deep personal dilemas living their
sad lives in horrible worlds. The occasional ray of hope shines but is,
by an large, overwhelmed by the gloom of being. The age of Gothic Punk,
Cyber Punk and other Dark Futures. The players vent their Angst at the
world through their characters and walk away feeling somewhat releived
through the cathartic process.
	The older style I have an easier time coming to terms with
is what I would term "Action Orientated". Things are on the move,
be they villans or heros, glorious loot lies out there for the brave,
dark secrets to ponder and life to live. The age of Fafhard and the
Grey Mouser, Indiana Jones, and Star Wars.
	[If one wants to be positively neolithic there is the really
old style typified by early Judges Guild stuff. Back when the whole
concept of Role Playing was not well defined. I don't think there is
anyone here old enough to prefer that style, but then ... :-]
	I am a firm beleiver in the Referee, not a Games Master.
More modern styles, and particularly "diceless" games, encourge
the Games Master to plan, develop and direct the plot so as to build
player excitement, consternation, emotion -- Angst to a peak and then
tie it off having shared a bit of themselves with everyone and perhaps
found out something about themselves. Sort of like a prayer meeting.
	In the older style I espouse, the universe is there to explore.
The Referee stands ready, as an impartial observer, to help the players,
through their characters, explore the universe, live out the lives of
their characters. The characters all have their dreams, desires, and
passions. Who knows what can happen?
	In this, dice are a great absolver. Characters cannot always
fulfill their hopes and dreams. In A&C role-playing it is the Games
Master that bears the full responsibility of what happens. I'd feel
guilty when the characters dreams are smashed. In A.O. games the
referee is one step removed: she doesn't determine what happens, just
the relative chances of what might happen. The Dice take the place
of Fate and determine the course of events.
	In A&C the players succeede or fail, partially based on their
course of action, but still largely interpreted by the Games Master.
In A.O. the referee mimics the hand of fate. Good plans by the characters
don't tempt fate and don't necessarily court disaster (I've done complete
sessions without rolling any dice). The player's successes are wholly
their successes. Their failures are wholly their failures.
	Bringing the discussion back to Traveller, Classic Traveller
(and I include Non-Rebellion MegaTraveller) it typified by vast buzzing
spaceports, big bucks for those willing to take risks, mysterious
patrons either noble or ignoble. However seldom was there a place without
sanctuary. You could always find the Traveller's Aid Society, snuggle
into the bar, puruse the notice board and feel safe.
	Judging by the post-rebellion adventures leading to the New Era
the world is a nasty, horrible place. Hard Times is appropriately worded
for those who have had to plow through the Dicken's Novel of the same
name. You back is always to the wall. Life is a struggle to survive. Never
a moment's peace. Humour is always gallows humour. People take risks
because life is short anyway.
	Classic Traveller is Star Wars. The New Era is Batman.
	Granted, you can play mean and nasy adventures in Classic
Traveller and I am sure you can play clean and shiny adventures in
The New Era. However the medium does not lend itself to this. This is
what I've missed.
	I've tried to explain. I've rambled a lot. If you still can't
grasp what I'm trying to say then all I can do is run a game for you.
Anytime you're in Dublin... :-)

				Jo Grant

_______________________________________________________________________________
Jo Grant		| Benson, Arizona, the warm wind through your hair
jaymin@maths.tcd.ie	| My body flies the galaxy, my heart longs to be there 
44 Bancroft Ave., 	| Benson, Arizona, the same stars in the sky
Tallaght, Dublin 24,	| But they seemed so much kinder when we watched them, 
IRELAND			|	you and I.		-- Dark Star

------------------------------

Bundle: 459
Archive-Message-Number: 5479
Date: Sat, 22 May 93 10:04:39 EDT
From: Colin Roald <colin@callisto.pas.rochester.edu>
Subject: Re:  Gaming Styles

> From: Jo Jaquinta <jaymin@maths.tcd.ie>
> Subject: Re: Gaming Styles
> Date: Thu, 20 May 93 11:19:05 BST

> 	The "new wave" role-playing style I termed "Angst and Cathartic"
> role-playing. We have characters with deep personal dilemas living their
> sad lives in horrible worlds. The occasional ray of hope shines but is,
> by an large, overwhelmed by the gloom of being.

> 	The older style I have an easier time coming to terms with
> is what I would term "Action Orientated". Things are on the move,
> be they villans or heros, glorious loot lies out there for the brave,
> dark secrets to ponder and life to live. The age of Fafhard and the
> Grey Mouser, Indiana Jones, and Star Wars.

I see what you're saying.  On the other hand, I'd always associated
too many dice with bland, cardboard role-playing, 40-foot dragons entombed
in 50' rooms, death-traps on the only door into the temple chamber, and
dungeons full of monsters and people who never moved unless a pc was within
20'.

Both of us are, of course, exaggerating and stereotyping. I do share with
you a great distaste for Shadowrun, Battletech and Cyberpunk, though 
Vampire is very cool.



- --
colin roald | if you don't care where you are, then you're not lost. (anon)

------------------------------

Bundle: 459
Archive-Message-Number: 5480
Subject: Re: Gaming Styles
Date: Sun, 23 May 93 18:39:00 +1000
From: Pauli <grue@cs.uq.oz.au>

Nice comments by Jo Grant (Doctor Who wasn't it :-) deleted.


Colin wrote:

>I see what you're saying.  On the other hand, I'd always associated
>too many dice with bland, cardboard role-playing, 40-foot dragons entombed
>in 50' rooms, death-traps on the only door into the temple chamber, and
>dungeons full of monsters and people who never moved unless a pc was within
>20'.

Gee, take away all the ref's fun.  Oh, the dragon should be more like 60
foot to keep the player's on their toes ;-)  I do agree that this sort of
happening isn't all that much fun to have to play through.


>Both of us are, of course, exaggerating and stereotyping. I do share with
>you a great distaste for Shadowrun, Battletech and Cyberpunk, though 
>Vampire is very cool.

You must mean MechWarrior not BattleTech.  BattleTech doesn't have much
roleplaying in it -- just lots of shooting and heat.  One of the best
beer and pizza games I know (after 'Macho Women With Guns' of course :-)




							Pauli
And on the seventh day, God created Traveller.


------------------------------

Bundle: 459
Archive-Message-Number: 5481
Date: Mon, 24 May 93 11:13:42 +1000
From: grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Subject: Games people play

hi,

I had a thought a couple of weeks ago about what kinds of sports and
games will be played in the Traveller universe.  I discussed this over lunch
with a friend and we came up with a few decent ideas for sports.

While most planets are going to have local games played mostly by themselves
and nobody else, I would be surprised if some form of Imperium wide sporting
event wasn't held.  The recent Zhondani teleport hunt is one such possible
game even if it lacks the violence essential in a real sport ;-) and it would
not be popular in the Imperium for some small reason.

The biggest change I can see is the invention of grav plates which
allows zero gee fun on any sufficiently high tech planet.  A few obvious
candidates come to mind:  zero gee squash is definable (although some
of the rules have to be warped quite a bit) as is a real life version
of the classic arcade game pong.  Some other games will not convert over
very well, zero gee golf would be almost as interesting as the real thing
(-; and wresting (the real thing not that stupid acting version) would
not work.  High jump is another one that wouldn't be all that much fun
(for similar reasons javelin, discus and the other throwing athletic
events would require gravity).  Combat sports (boxing, martial arts)
also tend to rely heavily upon gravity and thus couldn't go to zero gee.

Of course, not all games would convert over to the gravity less alternative,
even when the conversion is possible and simple.




ZG-Squash
=========

	Played in a pleasent sealed room.  Three walls (in a U shape) are
the live walls and the ball can impact with these any number of times.
The three remaining walls are the equivalent of the front wall and floor.
The ball must hit them once before the other player can play at it and
it must not hit any of them more than twice before the other players
hits the ball.  Zero gravity will again make life interesting (think
of the reaction when you swing at the ball :-) and moving around will
require considerable bouncing skills.



ZG-Pong
=======
	Two players or teams in a room (or a long thin starship corridor)
with some form ball that bounces nastily and of course no gravity is
present.  Each player/team is allocated a home wall and they are not
allowed to touch the ball if they are too far away from that wall (paint
a line around the room to mark the safe zone).  If the ball touches your
home wall you lose.  Naturally, no form of locomotion except the players
themselves is permitted (which makes for interesting timing problems in
zero gee).

	An alternative would be to mark goals in the middle of the players'
home walls and the ball must be kept away from there.  Also, catching and
throwing ball may or may not be permitted.  Finally, allowing only kicking
instead of throwing would result in a football (soccer for those plebs amongst
us :-) like game.




Any other suggestions?  Comments on the above?  Any possible non-zero gee
sports that might be interesting, what other technical developments could
lead to new sports??? (grav belts have a lot of potential in this reguard).

Zero gee aerobics? --- you too can watch overweight people damaging themselves
when they lose control ;-)   Some form of dancing would have to be possible
though.





        						Pauli

Paul Dale                       | grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Department of Computer Science  | +61 7 365 2445
University of Queensland        |
Australia, 4072                 | Did you know that there are 41 two letter
                                |     words containing the letter 'a'?

------------------------------

Bundle: 459
Archive-Message-Number: 5482
Date: Mon, 24 May 1993 12:03:27 EDT
From: kirsch@rhea.informatik.uni-bonn.de
Subject: A Question on Physics

Hello fellow Travellers,

after some time of passive consuming this list, here is a brand hot question
to all interested in physics:

Does the EMP (Electro Magnetic Pulse) of an nuclear explosion need an
planetary magnetic field to develop ?

That is, if you think of a planet, who has no magnetic field like earth
(would be a rather strange planet I must admit), would the explosion
of a nuclear device result in an EMP?

with hopes for some answers,

Juergen

- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Juergen Kirsch
Institut fuer Informatik, Universitaet Bonn
Germany
kirsch@rhea.informatik.uni-bonn.de

------------------------------

Bundle: 459
Archive-Message-Number: 5483
From: metlay@netcom.com (metlay)
Subject: This message has no Traveller content and is a shameless plug!
Date: Mon, 24 May 93 10:29:51 PDT


Hi, gang. I am pleased to announce that Team Metlay's BANDWIDTH is now
out on CD and ready to ship immediately! 

This album is both a remarkable historical document and a fairly
eclectic group of electronic music compositions; for those of you who
are not aware of this project, Team Metlay was a group of musicians
from EMUSIC-L and the now-defunct rec.music.synth USEnet newsgroup who
gathered in Pittsburgh at my request for a two-week period in December
of 1990 and recorded an album of emusic in that time period. The
release of the album was delayed for over two years by personal,
financial, and technical glitches, but is now pressed on CD and ready
to ship. I'm rather pleased with the results, and hope that people who
have waited for it all this time will feel it was worth the wait.

In 1990, Team Metlay consisted of Dan Barrett, Carl Brenner, Kurt
Geisel, myself, John Rossi III, Nick Rothwell, Adam Schabtach
(virtually), and Dean Swan.  Since then, we have added other people
and recorded other music, little or none of which is in releasable
form as of now. But at the moment we're just very happy to finally
have this, our first album, ready to ship, and to be able to discuss
it with anyone who has questions or comments. Ads for the CD will
start to appear in magazines over the next few months, but in the
meantime, I'm selling directly to folx on the Net who'd like copies.
If you're at all curious about what I do when I'm not doing Traveller
or physics, here's your chance to find out. The music ranges from New
Age ambient through dance-thrash, and there isn't a single
non-synthesized sound on the whole beautiful mess!  |->

As an introductory offer, we are selling the CD for $10 per copy,
shipping included, for domestic orders; foreign orders please add $2
for shipping and pay by check in US funds. Quantities of more than
two CDs, email me for prices. Please allow six weeks for shipping.

Make checks payable to Michael Metlay and send orders to:

Michael Metlay
Atomic City
P.O.Box 81175
Pittsburgh, PA 15217-0675 USA

I hope you enjoy this project as much as I do. Thanks to everyone out
there for their patience and support over the years!

For Team Metlay and everyone at Atomic City,

- -- 
mike metlay * atomic city * box 81175 pgh pa 15217-0675 * metlay@netcom.com
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
If this is a Global Village, then I must be the Global Village Idiot.......

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Sun May 30 22:00:01 EDT 1993
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #460: Msgs 5484-5499 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Sun May 30 22:00:01 EDT 1993
Reply-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun May 30 22:00:01 EDT 1993
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #460: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 460  5484 24-May-1993 Robert S. Dean   TNE? << So, has anyone seen a copy of T
 460  5485 25-May-1993 Adrian Hurt      Re: Games people play << grue@cs.uq.oz.
 460  5486 25-May-1993 Bertil Jonell    The Gauss Rifle is dead... <<     ..Lon
 460  5487 25-May-1993 Mark Watson      Games people play/TNE << Games people p
 460  5488 26-May-1993 helm@topaz.ucda  games << In games ref'd by Jim Kellerer
 460  5489 26-May-1993 metlay           Games and gauss rifles << On games in t
 460  5490 26-May-1993 Martin Snow      Sports in Traveller << Wasn't there an 
 460  5491 26-May-1993 Scott S. Kellog  Craft Design System? << Howdy all,
 460  5492 26-May-1993 Bertil Jonell    Re: Craft Design System? << > In Bertil
 460  5493 26-May-1993 Rob Dean         Re: Craft Design System? << 2G Scott wr
 460  5494 27-May-1993 Bertil Jonell    Flyer? What Flyer? << > From: Rob Dean 
 460  5495 27-May-1993 Alan Huscroft    Sport in Traveller << On the subject of
 460  5496 27-May-1993 Scott S. Kellog  Lords of Thunder (MTJ-4) SPOILER! << Gr
 460  5497 27-May-1993 Greg Givler      Re: Sports in Traveller << >Martin Snow
 460  5498 27-May-1993 Joe Heck         TNE rule question << I bought TNE yeste
 460  5499 27-May-1993 l.wiseman1@geni  <<                Bertil:

------------------------------

Bundle: 460
Archive-Message-Number: 5484
Date:     Mon, 24 May 93 14:26:31 EDT
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@cbda8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  TNE?

So, has anyone seen a copy of TNE yet?

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Bundle: 460
Archive-Message-Number: 5485
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cee.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Games people play
Date: Tue, 25 May 93 12:27:43 WET DST

grue@cs.uq.oz.au writes:
> 
> While most planets are going to have local games played mostly by themselves
> and nobody else, I would be surprised if some form of Imperium wide sporting
> event wasn't held.  The recent Zhondani teleport hunt is one such possible
> game even if it lacks the violence essential in a real sport ;-) and it would
> not be popular in the Imperium for some small reason.

The Zhodani do better than that - they have a sort of psionic Olympics with a
variety of events.  At least, they did in the days of Traveller (not Mega,
not New Era, just Traveller :-) and Alien Modules.  I have a funny feeling
that there would be very few Imperial participants in these games either.

>				Combat sports (boxing, martial arts)
> also tend to rely heavily upon gravity and thus couldn't go to zero gee.

Maybe not the present-day martial arts, but you can bet that there would be
some sort of zero-G combat.  In fact, there must be, because there's a skill
in it. :-)  So a zero-G martial arts arena would be a cell with no clearly
defined floor or ceiling, just walls with a variety of handles and other things
to grab hold of.  Either the objective is to knock out the opponent or force
a submission, or maybe there is a spot painted somewhere and you have to bounce
the opponent off it.  The absence of gravity would also add a whole new
dimension to fencing, literally.

There would have to be some zero-G version of football, whether it allowed
physical contact between players (zero-G American Football) or forbade it
(zero-G Soccer).

How about zero-G racing?  You need something like a small ring-type space
station, and the objective is to complete a set number of laps of the ring,
preferably before everyone else.  This means bouncing yourself off the outer
wall, possibly the inner wall, and maybe off other racers depending on the
rules.

- -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cee
 UUCP: ..!uknet!cee.hw.ac.uk!adrian  |  ARPA:  adrian@cee.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Bundle: 460
Archive-Message-Number: 5486
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: The Gauss Rifle is dead...
Date: Tue, 25 May 1993 19:36:45 +0200 (MET DST)

    ..Long live the.... Assault Rocket Launcher?!

     * A quick review of Traveller: TNE written *
     * for an audience familiar with Traveller  *
     * and MegaTraveller.			*

  [I won't comment about the parts wrgt which I might be deficient in
impartialness, although I must say that I was a little surprised to see the 
HubWorlds here:) I thought it was supposed to be published in Challenge/
Imperiallines.]

  [I also suspect that the fact that I know the T2k2 system will make
me miss things, simply because I unconciously fill them in]

  [And, if I make some hideous errors, please bear with me. I only bought it
yesterday:) ]

 The Basics:

  TTNE is a softcover book, 280x220x20mm, soft covers, 384 pages, $25, ISBN
1-55878-116-1, GDW number 0300 (hey, that's my area code:). "Printed in the
U.S.A, Terra/Solomani Rim (1827 G867975-8)."
  
  The page count is large compared to T2k2 (280), and DarkCon (336). The
price/page relationship is almost exactly the same as for Dark Conspiracy and
actually *lower* than for T2k2. Compared to Traveller and MegaT it gives 
somewhat of the same heavy feel of The Traveller Book and not the more 'flimsy'
of MegaT.

  The cover painting by John Zeleznik is a little too 'cluttered' for my taste
and IMHO, the title doesn't stand out as much as it should. Surprisingly, 
the spine is probably more eye-caching than that of the 'average RPG book'
while the front, as I said, is slightly less eye-caching than average. The 
back cover is an old Challenge cover by Tony Szcsudlo depicting a low berth
which is has obvious connections to PC's in TNE:)


 Layout:
  The interior layout is better than DarkConspiracy. The maps are much better
quality (much much better than the typical Challenge maps for example) and
most illustrations have a connection to the text. The one thing that I don't 
like is that the page numbers are in the middle of the bottom of the page,
since that makes it harder to flip quickly through the book to find a certain
page.

 Misc:
  The first thing I noticed was that this book does *not* match with what 
Dave Nilsen spoke about on GenCon/Origins: According to him then it was
supposed to be a 'rules' book in general terms and a 'TNE' book about the 
setting. But this book contains elements of both and an extremely brief note 
on various models of TL advancement.

 Brief Table of Contents:

  Introduction: 8 pages
  Character Generation: 45 pages
  NPC's: 16 pages
  Virus: 10 pages
  [Campaign:] Star Viking: 11 pages
  [Campaign:] The Wilds: 15 pages
  Tasks and Skills: 25 pages
  Refereeing Traveller: 6 pages
  Adventure: The Once & Future Emperor: 18 pages
  Adventure: Idol Dreams: 15 pages
  [Alternate Area:] Spinward States: 7 pages
  [Alternate Area:] Pocket Empires: HubWorlds: 6 pages
  Worldbuilding: 18 pages
  Wilderness Travel and Encounters: 12 pages
  Animals: 11 pages
  Space Travel: 12 pages
  Trade and Commerce: 11 pages
  Maintainance and Repairs: 5 pages
  Psionics: 14 pages
  Robots: 4 pages
  Combat: Planetary: 48 pages
    (several subdivisions)
  Combat: Space: 16 pages
  Miniatures: 2 pages
  Equipment: 52 pages
    (several subdivisions)
  Appendicies: 4 pages
  Index: 1 page.

 
 Character Generation:

  I don't have much to say about this. It is the basic T2k2 model of
generation changed to fit TTNE. There is a larger amount of skills, and there
are a plethora of tables about things such as homeworld generation, 
homeworld requirements for background skills and career entry requirements
(I like the last. I did a homecooked version of it for DarkCon to keep
the confusionlevel of my players down).
  The effects of various worlds and TL's (as opposed to the Basic TL8 Terra
in T2k2 and DarkCon) are well detailed.
  Characters *can* start with a ship (for the entire group). Every term,
some careers give a ship DM, and the whole party can add together their
DM's and roll on a series of tables. If they are lucky, they can get a ship,
if they are unlucky, all they get is a number of passages. There are strong
negative DM's in force anywhere else than in the Regency (Spinward).
  It is also quite likely that their ship will be small, decrepit, mortaged or 
modified (or all of the above).


 NPCs:

  First a intro about NPC's. What they are, what they do and how to make
them. Then 15 human NPC's, 4 Hiver, 2 Vargr, 3 Aslan, 3 Zhodani, 1 Droyne.
My main beef here is that the description of the Vargr IMHO reinforces the
'the vargrs pursuing you stop and start to bicker' stereotype.

 
 The Virus:
  
  Essentially the same as the data on the Virus in 'Survival Margin'.
  

 Star Vikings:

  History, Beliefs, Behaviour, Timeline, a Subsector. I haven't had the time 
to read this thoroughly yet.
  
  
 The Wilds:
   
  Guidelines on setting up a campaing in the Wilds. History. Xenophobia/
Technophobia. Psionics. Special Careers available in Wilds. Common features
of society. The Virus in the Wilds. A long description of first contact to
a typical world. A subsector. Like with the chapter on Star Viking, I haven't
read it through in detail yet.

 
 Tasks and Skills:

  A refined version of Lester Smiths d20 Mk2 system is described. Things like
combining skills, enabling skills, averaged skills, opposition and undertain
tasks has been added. Long section describing all skills.

  
 Refereeing Traveller:
  
  The obligatory chapter on how to do it. Since I isn't a newbie I don't think
I'm qualified to comment on it:)


 Adventure: The Once & Future Emperor
 Adventure: Idol Dreams

  I'll be brief about the Adventures because of the dangers of spoilers. 
The first takes place in the 'Star Viking' or RCES area in Old Expanses and
the second is an alternate campaign beginning that takes place in Diaspora.


 The Spinward States:
  
  This chapter describes the state in the Regency, formerly the Domain of
Deneb, which has escaped the Virus, for those who'd prefer everything to
be as it was. I haven't found any explicit mention of it, but it seems that
ol' Norris still rules things, even though he should be in his 140's (and his
daughter in her 60's at least). History, Democracy, Economy, Zho-Regency 
relations, Psionics, Robotics, Psion career, Regina subsector (It's interesting
to compare this Regina SS with the one in the Traveller Book, and of the
MegaT era and see the changes)

 
 Pocket Empires:

  Example of pocket empire: The HubWorlds in Massilia.

 
 Worldbuilding:

  Straight from good ol' 'Scouts' (except that the 'strange DM' to determine
moon orbits is gone) and that 'Collapse Effects' has been added.


 Wilderness Travel and Encounters:

  This chapter begins as in t2k2 and transforms into Traveller when it comes
to specific event encounters (wirebrushes, hallucinogenic pollen and 'jungle
drums'. Remember them from Traveller?:)
  It ends with some short notes about exploration and surveys.

 
 Animals: 
  
  Again the good ol' Traveller animal encounter table system, but changed to
new combat mechanic. I have fond memories of this system. I remember when I
(to the horror of the staff of Bergslagsskolan highschool in Karslkoga) wrote
a program that generated them automatically and printed out encounter tables
for *all* terrains on *all* worlds in the Regina Subsector:)
  
 
 Space Travel:

  Starship operating procedures and economics. Players might be be relived to 
know that if your referee goes by the charts, it is impossible to encounter
a vampire in the Regency:)


 Trade and Commerce:

  I'm divided over this chapter. On one hand, I very much like the inclusion
of the local credits from 'Striker'. But on the other hand, the trade system
is the thoroughly unexiting one from Merchant Prince.
  Quick! Somebody expand on the Traveller Book trade system and tailor it for
TNE! 10 tons of TL10 Computers or TL9 Agricultural Machines are much more
exciting than 10 tons of "A-C Ri Cr7000".

  
 Maintainance and Repairs:

  The t2k2 maintainance value and wear value systems are used, which IHMO
impresses the need for the PC engineers to actually do some maintainance
once in a while (for example, don't buy a subsidized line with wear value 10
unless the party happens to include around 40 engineers:)


 Psioncis:

  I haven't read this yet. A quick skim reveals a 'power level/stage of success
table' and the new paths of telephysics and arcana that encompasses some
skills presently found in the 'other' group.
  

 Robots:

  This is a brief chapter on robots (mostly DarkCon style) with a very brief
note about Robots in TNE. I miss some things wrgt Robots and Virus that 
Dave Nilsen spoke about during the writers conference in Bloomington last 
year.


 Planetary Combat:

  This is a long chapter, mostly identical to T2k2 but with a few minor
additions. The autofire system used is fortunately basic T2k2 and not
the one in the T2k2 Ref's Screen. The additions handle things that change
between TL8 combat and TL0 to 15 combat. 
  There is also a section on the various effects of the planetary environment
on combat. 


 Space Combat:

  I've only tested this once, but IMHO it is the bright gem of TTNE. 
I personally think it is the best small scale space combat system done 
for Traveller that I've seen (and that includes the Traveller Book system,
Mayday, the MegaT system, High Guard (and Rebel Guard:)).

  I don't feel up to describing it in detail, but in short it uses the
old range band system (but it should be usable with hexes. In fact I've found
one or two mentions of 'hexes' vice 'rangebands' in the text that suggests
that it was originally written for hexes and later cut down to range bands).
Hits are resolved on a general hit location table with 20 areas (segments
of a globe imagined to surround the target) which is special to each class
of ship. Antennas, Locks and Hatches are damaged first, then the hull has
to be penetrated, and finally interior components are damaged. Some components
have different damage capacity in some ships and there are common tables to
determine that an interior 'Quarters' hit in fact was a hit on the Life Support
or Passenger Staterooms.


 Miniatures:

  A two page short course in 'how to paint'.

 
 Equipment and Technology:

  The equipment chapter starts with a very short three-page treatment of
various models of TL advancement and a referral to the 'Travller Technical
Architecture' sourcebook.
  It then jumps straight into the equipment lists. The first thing I noticed
was that medical slow, combat slow and fast drugs are gone (even though 
fast are mentioned in 'Survival Margin'). Power storage batteries are given
a thorough (and realistic I suspect) treatment. 
  The equipment illustrations are much better than in T2k2 and DarkCon but 
the picture that is entitled 'sniffer bioscaner' shows a NAS backpack and
handset.

  Starship Weapons:

  Starship weapons have changed again (but to the better IMHO). Laser turrets
now contain one laser of varying TL and MegaJoulage. They are fed with a
low number of continous MegaWatts and are obviously pulse lasers driven with
energy storage in the form of a homopolar generator. Maximum ranges vary from 
8 to 80 bands (one band is 1/10 lightseconds, aka 30000km) and they are *not*
Xray lasers as they were in MegaT.
  Missiles now consist of a small nuke (on the 50 to 500 ton TNT range) that
pumps a number of Xray laser rods. They weight 7 metric tons each (ouch!) and
are hideously expensive (like 750kCr to 1.25MCr) so I hope somebody designs
conventional ones carrying a 1000kg shaped charge for example.

  I haven't had the time to combine the figures of the energy in each pulse,
the number of pulses per space combat turn (30 min) and the continous effect
needed to drive the turret against 3G3 but I'll try to do it sometime soon:)
  
  Personal Weapons:

  Lasers have changed here too. The Powerpack now contains a battery, coolant
system and a homopolar generator on TL8-9 weapons. TL13 lasers use chemical
laser cartridges to store the energy, and hand held fusion and plasma weapons
use similar (much larger) cartridges.
  The PG and FG series could perhaps be reintroduced as TL15+ weapons?

  There are some bugs in the small arms stat table. One that inspired the title
of this article is that the Gauss Pistol has a damage of 1 and Pen of 1-Nil
(impossible in this system) and the Gaussrifle a damage of 2 and a pen of 
1-Nil. IMHO the damage for the Gaussrifle should be upped to 3 or 4 to be on
the same order as that of TL7 assault rifles and the gausspistol upped to 2
(to make the damage and pen figures match for it).
  Another suspected bug is that all hand held lasers except LR-13 have a 
penetration of Nil while the starship weapons have penetrations less than 1 
(aka *very* good at penetrating...)

  My brief reading of the weapon stats table suggests that a Assault Rocket
Launcher firing HEAP has the best combination of high ROF, low recoil, high
damage and good penetration, which is why I suspect it has replaced the Gauss
Rifle as the most effective weapon (unless the lasers should have a pen of 1
or so).

  Vehicles:

  The standard complement of vehicles are available.

  Starships:

  Scout/Courier
  Far Trader
  Free Trader
  Yatch
  Gazelle-class Close Escort
  Lab ship
  Patrol Cruiser
  SDB
  Subsidized Merchant
  Donosev-class Survey Ship
  Subsidized Liner
  Broadsword-class Mercenary Cruiser

    All have their own damage data and hit locations data. Armour varies from
  10 (traders) to 101 (SDB). This should make it possible to any yahoo with
  a muzzle loaded cannon to threaten the adventurers in their trader:)

    The ships generally behave more like in Traveller than in MegaTraveller.
  For example, they appearently use fuel guzzling fusion rockets for drive and
  a antigrav (now called Contra-Grav, but called antigrav in the skill section)
  system for start adn landings (Three loud cheers for the fusion rockets!).
  Powerplant fuel is listed as '1 year duration' in all cases while the
  engine fuel (reaction mass probably) is listed as a number of G-hours
  varying between 11 and 52. 
    (You know what this means? This means that the normal scout (40 Ghours)
  only can accelerate for 20 hours and deaccelerate for 20 hours before it
  runs out of fuel. Insystem transfers will take a *lot* of time 
  hencetoforth. And there will be no scouts at 0.5c threatening the worlds:)

    It was nice to see that the illustrations used for shipsboat, modular
  cutter and shuttle are the same as they were in the Traveller Book:)


 Closing Comments: 

  Generally positive. The way things work seems to be moving towards 
good ol' Traveller.
     
- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Bundle: 460
Archive-Message-Number: 5487
Date: 25 May 93 17:54:07 EDT
From: Mark Watson <100022.3361@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Games people play/TNE

Games people play:
If you go back through the material you can find a few games. Boloball is
one that comes to mind. You can abstract from the present somewhat: taking
the usual analogy of a traveller planet being equivalent to a contemporary
country ....
- - one game will be played throughout the imperium except for one planet. For
the important imperium wide contest, the planet that doesn't play it will be
picked to host it
- - the planet in question will play a number of completely different games
which it is convinced are of importance to the entire imperium. It will hold
lavish contests with titles like The Imperial Series and Superbolo. No off
planet teams will compete.
- - the population of the planet has absolutely no interest in the genuine
imperial wide game, except when a game is broken up by drug crazed Vargr.
Their interest diminishes even further when they realise that they have
absolutely no chance of winning the big contest.
- - the imperial contest (let's call it the Imperial Cup) will be won by a
representative team from Terra, made up of a single token Brazilian and 10
players from Leeds United, holders of the Imperial Premier League
Championship for the past unbroken 5000 years. I wish.

Outside the Imperium:
- - in the Vargr extents, the top game is Akhakh (in Anglic: "Fetch").
Basically, one player throws a stick. The other player fetches it. Player
with the highest charisma throws the first stick.
- - In the Aslan hierate, an ancient form of wrestling prevails. The youthful
ihatei are required to take on an avatar representing the primal foe of the
aslan. The avatar takes the form of a ball of wool. The contest continues
until the aslan loses interest.
- - The K'kree play a form of football. The main differences from conventional
football are that the pitch is 800 km square and there are over 1000 to each
team. The teams never break up, and in fact only come into contact either by
accident or to smash up the hot dog stand. No score draws are common.
- - The Hivers don't play games, they fix them.

TNE:
Well no sign in Virgin in Guildford, but I finally caught up with Survival
Margin. An excellent sourcebook with minimal gaming application. But I'd
recommend it anyway. Will we ever find out what happened to the other
adversaries - Craig, Margaret, etc - before the collapse? And was that thing
that ran over Dulinor the famous Verge Combine?


Cheers
Mark


------------------------------

Bundle: 460
Archive-Message-Number: 5488
From: helm@topaz.ucdavis.edu
Date: Wed, 26 May 93 00:24:48 PDT
Subject: games

In games ref'd by Jim Kellerer, we play both telepuck and zero-G ball 
while in jump. Zero-G ball is handball played in a zero-G tank.

If I have some time (which might be possible after this friday)
I'll post a telepuck scenario which I've written up, to try and
give people some flavor for how Jim Kellerer and I play the game.

ttfn
Catie
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Catie Helm
Stable Isotope Lab, University of California, Davis
helm@geology.ucdavis.edu

------------------------------

Bundle: 460
Archive-Message-Number: 5489
From: metlay@netcom.com (metlay)
Subject: Games and gauss rifles
Date: Wed, 26 May 93 9:46:59 PDT


On games in the Imperium:

There's a game I invented for my Traveller campaign called Slingshot,
which is the subject of a short story or two that I wrote a LONG time
ago and should probably resurrect again. It's primarily popular in the
Spinward States, as the Imperial Core considers it too barbaric. It's
a combination of Ultimate Frisbee, Rollerball, and Jai-Alai, played
by armored teams in a playing area that changes not only gravitational
amount but also direction. The floor becomes the wall becomes the 
ceiling becomes the floor, randomly, with audio/visual warning signals
that are on shorter and shorter notice as the players get better. The
object one throws is a metallic discus, that can be handled by hand
(in some variants) or with a gizmo like a jai-alai or lacrosse stick
(in others). 

The game is played by teams of two, three, or four, and has various
rules levels and degrees of violence and danger to the participants.
This can range from contact-free (which makes the game a lot like
Ultimate) to full-contact (which is a cross between Rollerball and
lacrosse). Professional-grade Slingshot, or ProShot, is a hot sport
on video, but is not played on all worlds because of the violence
built into it.  Because the equipment used and the environment of the
playing field erases a lot of the physical differences between
species, it is one of the few games where Aslan and Droyne can compete
on equal terms, to say nothing of other races as well. Teams are
rarely racially integrated, and my story was about the first
all-species team to make the ProShot Circuit: one Human, one Vargr,
one Aslan, and one Droyne.

It was a neat story, if a bit juve; I should probably dig it up again.

On the gauss rifle bowing to the ARL in TTNE:

It's about damned time. The ARL is the most underrated weapon in 
Traveller, and the handheld gauss rifle the most overrated.
Thanks for the review, Bertil; things are looking hopeful. I'm
going to post a review of my own, assuming my local store ever
bothers to order me a copy. |-P


- -- 
mike metlay * atomic city * box 81175 pgh pa 15217-0675 * metlay@netcom.com
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Team Metlay's BANDWIDTH is now out on Compact Disc! Email me for details...

------------------------------

Bundle: 460
Archive-Message-Number: 5490
Date: Wed, 26 May 1993 17:01:06 -0600
From: snow@lyrae.colorado.edu (Martin Snow)
Subject: Sports in Traveller

Wasn't there an article in one of the 'zines about making characters who
were professional atheletes rather than military enlistees?  All the skills
they might learn were physically oriented, although there were probably
a few admin/streetwise type skills thrown in too.  It probably listed
all the future-sports that the authors could think of.  

I know the article was for regular Traveller (circa 1984) but I don't
recall where I saw it exactly.  I really wish I hadn't lost it, since
a few of my players have a hard time identifying with military characters.
(I know now that all we had to do was switch to MEGATraveller!) :-)

Martin Snow
snow@lyrae.colorado.edu

------------------------------

Bundle: 460
Archive-Message-Number: 5491
From: skellogg@lonestar.utsa.edu (Scott S. Kellogg)
Subject: Craft Design System?
Date: Wed, 26 May 93 12:38:43 CDT

Howdy all,

Got a question for Loren, if he's got his ears on...

In Bertil Jonnell's extensive listing of TNE's contents, I noticed the
conspicuous absence of a craft design system.  Admittedly, I don't
have TNE yet, but I feel sure that Bertil would have mentioned it if
it were included.

I very much enjoy playing around with craft design and have used it as
a kind of solo playing method when not running a campaign.

Question:
Is there or will there be a craft design system for TNE which will be
released at some point?  If not how about a system for converting
MegaTrav or High Guard craft to TNE standard?

I'm not the only one who enjoys craft design, I'd bet it would sell
rather well.

Thanks,

Scott 2G Kellogg


------------------------------

Bundle: 460
Archive-Message-Number: 5492
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Re: Craft Design System?
Date: Wed, 26 May 1993 21:40:56 +0200 (MET DST)

> In Bertil Jonnell's extensive listing of TNE's contents, I noticed the
> conspicuous absence of a craft design system.  Admittedly, I don't
> have TNE yet, but I feel sure that Bertil would have mentioned it if
> it were included.

  Correct, there isn't any.

  I'm trying to perform reverse engineering on the examples given but so far,
I haven't reached any conclusions yet (apart from the fact that the volume of
1 displacement ton has changed from 13.5m3 to 14m3, but this is stated
somewhere in the text too).

  Some comments on the vehicles that I missed in the review:

  The armour levels seems generally low, the highest armour level of the grav
tank is 60, and that is significantly lower than late generation contemporary
terran tanks. Also the penetration of some tac missiles is very low: The
TL13 130kg laser designated tac missile has a pen of 60C which is even lower
than the venerable TL7 Dragon.

  Space combat is entirely task driven: It is the characters skills that 
determine the difficulties of various things (while ranges, penetrations etc
are still hardware determined). This is IMHO good for an RPG, and while I
don't think the system will work as well for ships over 10,000 or 20,000 tons,
I wouldn't cry if I never saw a ship other than big ugly cargo barges larger
than that.

> Scott 2G Kellogg

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Bundle: 460
Archive-Message-Number: 5493
From: Rob Dean <robdean@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Craft Design System?
Date: Wed, 26 May 1993 15:10:26 -0400 (EDT)

2G Scott writes:

> Got a question for Loren, if he's got his ears on...
> 
> Question:
> Is there or will there be a craft design system for TNE which will be
> released at some point? 

Scott, old buddy, you should have taken Loren up on his offer to send
you a TNE flyer a few weeks ago.  The design book "Technical Architecture"
(or some such title) is the next item expected, and should be the other
half of the boxed TNE set, which is due in July (according to GDW on
GEnie.)

I'm waiting for that box, personally.

Rob Dean



------------------------------

Bundle: 460
Archive-Message-Number: 5494
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Flyer? What Flyer?
Date: Thu, 27 May 1993 10:55:41 +0200 (MET DST)

> From: Rob Dean <robdean@access.digex.net>
> Subject: Re: Craft Design System?
 
> Scott, old buddy, you should have taken Loren up on his offer to send
> you a TNE flyer a few weeks ago.

  Ouch! I have seen neither the offer nor the flyer. It must have happened 
while I wasn't reading all my mail due to Real Life committments.

  Well, I'll go down to the store and have a look. If it is promo material
I'd expect them to have at least one.

> Rob Dean

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Bundle: 460
Archive-Message-Number: 5495
Date: Thu, 27 May 93 11:52:38 BST
Subject: Sport in Traveller
From: Alan Huscroft <asshuscr@reading.ac.uk>

On the subject of sport in Traveller:

The HIWG has a designated sports analyst, Nick "Battle Damage" Law, 
who wrote a detailed set of rules for grav-ball in such a way that it 
can be played out as a sort of board game.  He also described league 
structures for it in the Imperium.  

I have a copy of this on paper, although I have never actually tried
to play through a game of it.  Unfortunately I don't have a copy in
computer-readable form, but if there was enough interest I could get
in touch with Nick and ask him if he has a computer-readable version
that I could post to the list.

Alan Huscroft
asshuscr@reading.ac.uk

------------------------------

Bundle: 460
Archive-Message-Number: 5496
From: skellogg@lonestar.utsa.edu (Scott S. Kellogg)
Subject: Lords of Thunder (MTJ-4) SPOILER!
Date: Thu, 27 May 93 12:52:51 CDT

Greetings all,

I just read through parts of the Lords of Thunder, haven't had
time to read it all, but I did have a couple observations.

************************Spoiler alert!*****************************

Did the Keith brothers get stuck somehow?  They pulled the same
rabbit outta the hat that they did in the FASA Sky Raiders trilogy.
I mean there it is!  ANOTHER burned out multi-generation TL9 asteroid
ship, destroyed by the internal factionalism of it's warlike
inhabitants.

If you want a craft design for it, I suggest you all take a look at
the Rift-Crossing ship and attendant fleet I posted a couple months
back.  (Except that has a jump drive...)  But I can tell you from
several hours work with a spread sheet.  The ship would *never* be
able to power artificial grav plates for 5000 years.  Nope.  Not
with MegaTraveller rules.  Also grav plates are TL 10.  Not TL 9!
Why couldn't they just say the damn thing was spun for gravity!

Also, the notion of an K'kree community of exiles sounds pretty
strange to me.  I always figured that the K'kree notion of exile would
fall under cruel and unusual punishment:  execution being FAR more
preferable.  Kinda like an Aslan being disgraced completely in front
of his family:  he'd prefer death.

Gripe!  Gripe!  Gripe!  Complain!  Complain!  Complain!

Still it IS the first time the K'kree ever got used in a decent way.
I always wondered if someone could ever write something for their use.
As bad guys, they have a good appeal to me, even if I never figured out
how to use them well enough to try.

I know I've asked this before, but has anyone out there ever managed to
get a campaign going that involved the vegitarians from hell?

Scott 2G Kellogg


------------------------------

Bundle: 460
Archive-Message-Number: 5497
Subject: Re: Sports in Traveller
Date: Thu, 27 May 93 14:04:45 EDT
From: Greg Givler <givler@bermuda.commodore.com>

>Martin Snow writes:
>
> Subject: Sports in Traveller
> 
> Wasn't there an article in one of the 'zines about making characters who
> were professional atheletes rather than military enlistees?  All the skills
> they might learn were physically oriented, although there were probably
> a few admin/streetwise type skills thrown in too.  It probably listed
> all the future-sports that the authors could think of.  
> 
> I know the article was for regular Traveller (circa 1984) but I don't
> recall where I saw it exactly.  I really wish I hadn't lost it, since
> a few of my players have a hard time identifying with military characters.
> (I know now that all we had to do was switch to MEGATraveller!) :-)

It was in the Ares Section of Dragon magazine. If anyone wants more
info I have the issue at home somewhere, I could look it up. It was a
Basic Traveller Character generation system. Not advanced like High
Guard or Merc. Let me know if anyone wants more information.

Greg

- -- 
Greg Givler                 | "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics"
Commodore Product Assurance | - Mark Twain
givler@cbmvax.commodore.com |
===============================================================================

------------------------------

Bundle: 460
Archive-Message-Number: 5498
Date:         Thu, 27 May 93 22:50:29 CDT
From: Joe Heck <CCJOE@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu>
Subject:      TNE rule question

I bought TNE yesterday (actually it was a gift for my birthday) and I was
reading through the combat system and had a question on a confusing area:
combat damage.

pg 285, 1st column, bottom
"Multiply the target's armor protection by the weapon's penetration value
and subtract the result from the weapon's damage value."

Using an example of a 12mm hunting rifle at short range (Pen = 2, Dam = 4)
and a visored helmet TL 10 (Armor value = 2), the resulting damage would
work out:

   AV x Pen       Damage Val - (AV x Pen)
    2 x 2   = 4       4      -     4      = 0    which means this doesn't
                                                 penetrate.

while the same armor versus a 9mm Rifle (TL7) (Pen = 1, Dam = 5) would give
a result of:

  AV x Pen        Damage Val - (AV x Pen)
   2 x 1    = 2       5      -     2      = 3    which means this does
                                                 penetrate.

So: A 9mm TL7 rifle will more easily penetrate a helm than a 12mm TL10
Rifle?

    This doesn't make sense. Help!!!?

 joe                          (314) 882-5000
 ccjoe@mizzou1.missouri.edu

------------------------------

Bundle: 460
Archive-Message-Number: 5499
From: l.wiseman1@genie.geis.com
Date: Thu, 27 May 93 23:53:00 EDT
Subject: 

               Bertil:
     > Generally positive. The way things work seems to be moving
towards good ol' Traveller.
     Thanks. That was certainly what we were trying for.
     You seem to have acquired a copy before many people in the USA.
Our Swedish distributor is very efficient.
     The low laser penetration is not a typo. We made them to
reflect reality as we currently understand it (as it was
explained to us by a few experts). This is a design decision that
will undoubtedly be debated here within a few hours of everyone
getting their copies of the game.
     I think Gauss Rifles are pretty deadly, and I must admit a soft
spot for the ARL, but my weapon of choice is the good old plasma
rifle (PGMP renamed). That sucker'll go through battledress like
a knife through butter (range is a _little_ short, however).
 
- ------------------------------
Scott (Kay-EE-double-Ell, Owe-Double-Good) Kellogg & Rob Dean:
 > Craft Design System?
 Rob beat me to the answer, but the Craft Design book will be in
 the starship combat game, tentatively titled
  (drumroll please)
 _Brilliant Lances_
 Which leads me to a few words from our sponsor:
     If things work out with the manufacturer (RAFM in Canada) we
 _may_ be able to include a sample ship miniature in the game, but
the game will be designed for use with counters. Thirty counters
(two-sided, so you get 60 ships, you just can't use all 60 at
once unless you part with a couple of bucks for a second counter
sheet), with little line drawings of the ships on them.
     Three 22"x31" maps with a 2" hex grid (black with a starfield
background, white hexgrid). I don't know what size the Geo-Hex
stellar battle cloth is, but it should be reasonably compatible.
We are doing them 2" hexes so that two miniature ships and their
stands can fit on one hex.
     Two booklets, one starship design, one combat rules. All in a
box with a neat cover painting by aviation artist Doug Chaffee,
for $30.00 American.
     Available July. We hope to have it in time to release it at
Origins, July 4th weekend.
 
- ------------------------------
     RAFM Starships will include a Gazelle, a Patrol Cruiser, a
Scout/Courier, Free Trader, Far Trader, Subs. Merchant (I think)
and several others (working from memory here). They look very
nice, nice enough to tempt me to paint a few. Drop by Origins or
Gen-Con, and we'll be running demos with the samples.
 
- ------------------------------
 BTW, for those who care, Survival Margin has sold out its first
printing already, and we are working on the second. We have a
complaint from a store owner in San Diego, who says the only
thing wrong with the book is that she can't keep any on her
shelves : )
 Advance orders for TNE are sizable, but its the re-stock orders
that tell the tale (re-stocks are a measure of how fast it moves
off the store shelves).
 
- ------------------------------
FUTURE PRODUCTS
 The next product out will be Technical Architecture, which will
 enable Scott double-G to design his sentient elevator, as well as
 a sentient fusion toaster, if he wants to. 120pp book, $14,
 available in early August.
 Deluxe Traveller will include theTechnical Architecture book,
 the main book, and some other goodies (as yet unspecified) in a
 box. $35, Early August, same as Technical Architecture.
 
 The first Adventure book will release in September, the Ref's
 Screen and a Player's Packet in October.
I think that's enough for now.
  Loren K. Wiseman
        for GDW

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
