Subj: Traveller-digest V1999 #1562
Date: 12/23/99 5:49:59 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)
Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
Reply-to: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
To: traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
Traveller-digest Thursday, December 23 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 1562
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Closedown
Re: England
Re: American Football (was: Re: [OT] War of 1812)
Re: Football( was Re: [OT] War of 1812)
Re: 3I Sports
Re: Drawing Program
Re: Geographical idiocy (was re: perception of distance)
Re Christmas Ultra-Violence
Re: Geographical idiocy (
Microsoft=MONOPOLY (Was Re: Re Subsidies)
Re: England
Re: In Jokes
Re: England
Re: Gunnery
Book review - For the Greater Good [longish]
Design systems
RE: Traveller roadshows
RE: [OT] War of 1812
Re: Terran polities
Re: Drawing Program
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 11:03:40 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Closedown
With immediate effect, this station is shutting down for
annual overindulgence in alcohol, rich food and family fun.
Have a great Christmas and New Year period, no matter what your
beliefs.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 12:24:48 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance"
Subject: Re: England
Date sent: Thu, 23 Dec 1982 21:14:50 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin"
> If that's a typical attitude, it's no wonder someone (i.e., the USA) has
> had to bail your country out of two major wars in this century. You
> know, I'm going to chop off your toe -- it's not an attack to you, just
> to a very small part of you.
I had a response to this all typed up, but I think I'll just sit on my hands
and suggest you may wish to read some history books instead.
Andrew etc
Homepage http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/
Traveller http://www.downport.com/amv/
"What do you expect from a species who's females are
always in heat" Ko of the Ilui clan on Humans and honour
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 03:20:04
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: American Football (was: Re: [OT] War of 1812)
At 09:21 PM 12/21/1999 -0600, you wrote:
>> I've always found it odd that a nation which prides itself on its
>> virility feels it has to strap on forty pounds of body armour just to play
>> Rugby....
I will gladly forward a tape of 49ers' Defensive Lineman Bryant Young
having his lower leg broken in two places when another player landed on it,
or Steve Young being knocked unconscious when his head hit a players knee.
From what I've seen, AmFootball differs from rugby in the level of
violence.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 03:25:31
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Football( was Re: [OT] War of 1812)
At 04:30 PM 12/22/1999 +1100, you wrote:
> Actually, we (Rugby) don't slam into each other any more, or they're not
>supposed to. They've altered the rules drastically in favour of safety and a
>good thing I'd have to say. In Gridiron the player's crunch into each other
>frontally in a way that would get you suspended in Rugby, that and the fact
>that Rugby tackles only occur if your holding the ball so your not liable to
>be flattened from "Out-left-field" because your ready for it.
Interesting pouint on that last sentence.
In the NFL, you cannot hit the quarterback once he's thrown the ball.
That's called "roughing the passer", and is a fifteen yard penalty.
If the defending team intercepts the pass, that quarterback suddenly is a
defender, and can be blocked legally. I've seen quarterbacks just get
levelled by defenders who see the chance to take a free shot.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 06:22:44 -0500
From: "Josh W. Spencer"
Subject: Re: 3I Sports
On 12/22/1999 23:02, Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote about "Rollerball":
>
> The book the script was lifted from was very good, it's called
> "Killerbowl" and it's Gridiron in hi-tech plastic armour and bloody big
> knives. The players live in a society where skill is emphasised and the fans
> only want blood, so the networks arrange it so the fans get what they want.
> I personally think it was the first ever cyberpunk book.
>
Actually, Rollerball is based on a short story by Harry Harrison, ISTR.
- --
Josh
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 11:29:40 +0000
From: Phil Kitching
Subject: Re: Drawing Program
At 16:24 23/12/1999 +1100, you wrote:
>
>
>>If you use a Mac, I have to recommend Claris Works.
>>Amazingly enough, I have used it for floor plans and such and my Fantasy GM
>>uses it
>>to create excellent terrain maps.
>>It isn't too fancy, but it damn well works.
>>
>>TV
>
> Anything for PC though?
>
I use "Artworks" on the RISC PC (formerly by Acorn).
This is available as "Corel Xara" on the PC
(I don't know the current cost/availability though)
Of course, if you had a RISC PC, you could use "Draw" which is free and even
supports hex grids. (The main advantage of Artworks was the print on multiple
pages facility which I used for the Pioneer Ecks, since it has 30 decks.)
Phil Kitching
- --
http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
"Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 06:31:02 -0500
From: "Josh W. Spencer"
Subject: Re: Geographical idiocy (was re: perception of distance)
On 12/23/1999 02:19, GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:
>
> One look at how the NFL (to bring this and the football
> thread together) assigns its teams to divisions makes it
> clear that "successful" is pretty good at utter ignorance
> as well...
> Fortunately, sports in Traveller are much less likely to
> have such problems, since travel times go WAY up if
> your "local" divisions get out of whack.
Once Houston's expansion franchise begins operating in the 2002 season, the
NFL will realign each conference (National and American) into four divisions
of four teams each. One AFC team will go to the NFC, much like Pittsburgh,
Baltimore (Colts) and Cleveland went to the AFC when the NFL and American
Football League merged in 1970.
- --
Josh
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1982 03:39:45 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin"
Subject: Re Christmas Ultra-Violence
> From: SFC Groth
I had written:
> > Well, what's it going to be then, eh, droogies?
you replied:
> Moloko plus for me....
and I think that would rather better than eggnog at this time of year!
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1982 03:44:54 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin"
Subject: Re: Geographical idiocy (
> From: SFC Groth
> ISTR reading about a college in San Francisco testing its students on
> geography. About half of the students, at a _San Francisco_ college,
> couldn't locate the Pacific Ocean on a map. (Sorry, I don't have a
> cite.)
I don't doubt it. My girlfriend's honor student teen age daughter can't
even name the capitals of adjacent states -- in fact, she's not even
sure which states are adjacent to California.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 06:48:51 -0500
From: "Josh W. Spencer"
Subject: Microsoft=MONOPOLY (Was Re: Re Subsidies)
From: "William F. Hostman"
> >
>> As for his "Monopoly", it would probably have made a tidy profit.
>> Monopolies are not technically illegal in the US... they are only illegal
>> when they prevent the rise of competition by unfair buisiness practice. For
Then Glenn M. Goffin responds:
>
> Moreover, the issue of legality of monopolies did not even arise until
> the early twentieth century, after they decided to start using the
> Sherman Anti-Trust Act against its actual intended targets, trusts in
> restraint of trade. Prior to that, the Act was a union-busting tool.
> I've forgotten when the Act became law; it seems to me 1890-something.
Another great example of a legal monopoly was AT&T. Local phone calls were
cheap, long distance was expensive, but the public didn't seem to mind.
Until 1984, when Reagan decided to sue, and the judge who oversaw that case
broke them up. Fast forward 15 years, the Baby Bells are slowly coming back
together. Only Bell Atlantic was just granted a license to offer long
distance service to New York state. They all sitll stifle AT&T, Sprint and
MCI from the local markets.
We'll all find out soon enough what parts of the Sherman Anti-Trust Act
MICROSOFT violated when Judge Thomas Penfield Jackson issues his "Findings
of Law" in February. He issued his Findings of Fact in November which stated
clearly the Microsoft is a MONOPOLY and used its Monopoly Power to
intimidate potential rivals from competing in the operating system and
browser markets.
- --
Josh
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1982 03:55:43 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin"
Subject: Re: England
> From: "Rupert Boleyn"
> Not many. OTOH how many wars have the Germans killed sh*tloads more
> Brits than the Brits killed Germans? Two this century, for starters.
These statistics probably exist. I'm sure the Germans lost more
soldiers and more civilians in WW 2 than Britain. I'm not sure how many
of those Germans were actually killed by Brits. Lots of Soviets and
Americans participated in killing Germans, as did more than a few
French, although not as effectively as the three Us (UK, USA, USSR).
I believe that most Germans (civilian and military) died as a direct or
indirect result of aerial bombardment. The USA bombed during the day,
and the UK by night. I don't remember any significant difference in
tons of ordnance dropped, but I remember seeing some figures on it when
I was in college.
That war has been extensively analyzed, so there are probably studies of
just this set of questions.
WW 1 has also been subject to considerable analysis, but not as much I
think as WW 2.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 21:34:08 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley"
Subject: Re: In Jokes
> From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
> - - but the 1% inspiration hit me when I decided that a _Vargr_ owned the
> long-haul grav-bus company, "G-Hound"!!!
Yes. Borrowed. Now appearing in my campaign.
I was thinking about ways to get my players away from their ship to bash a
bit of wilderness. They'll catch a bus - it's nice and inconspicuous. And
if the bus gets stopped by the local freedom fighters, or the army,
then....
Cool.
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 20:44:57 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley"
Subject: Re: England
> From: Steven Hudson
> >Er, the challenge was so taken up, in Ireland. That's a part of what all
> >this stuff in Ulster is about (or at least part of the tradition of
> >troubles). As to "then-current-regime" - the King was removed by
> >Parliament and replaced with someone with better protestant credentials.
> >In the modern sense, the best description would be a coup.
>
> Sure, but once the option of military resistance in England proper was
> foregone the issue was settled; Ireland could at best hope to secure its
> own liberty over a period of years, not to overthrow the new regime.
I'm not so sure about that. First, there was resistance in Scotland too
(the battle of Killiekrankie, amongst others), plus, the war in Ireland was
_big_. The armies involved were much larger than those involved in the
Civil Wars in the 1640s.
The Jacobite forces were supported by France, and included some elements of
the regular British army, namely, those originally posted in Ireland.
William III's army was an odd mixture. It was a hybrid of the British
army, the Dutch army, and a great chunk of "allies", many financially
subsidised. This included Danish troops, and sundry Germans, and Swedes,
and all kind of odd bods. Oh, and of course there were local Protestant
Irish recruits, too.
Both armies included French troops - William's were Protestants who had
gone into exile after Louis XIV started persecuting them again.
The armies themselves were actually commanded by the rival Kings in person
at the Battle of the Boyne. This was the last time in English history when
this occurred. William won. James subsequently ran off back to France.
His armies fought on for another couple of years.
Basically, if William had lost at the Boyne, he would have been in serious
trouble.
OBTrav: What if Strephon, rather than Lucan, had ended up leading the
opposition to Dulinor's coup? If Strephon was discredited enough, Dulinor
might have got away with it.
Alternatively, Strephon attempts to reclaim the throne, backed by _the
Solomani_. I'd shoot him myself.
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 12:21:46 +0000
From: Phil Kitching
Subject: Re: Gunnery
SFC Groth wrote:
>Bruce Macintosh wrote:
>>
>> Although I believe this model is the most realistic, it actually
>> doesn't
>> fit all that well with TNE rules, in which gunnery skill is a crucial
>> determining
>> factor in odds of hitting - the above model has little room for skill
>> variations. ("The ship shuddered under the impact of Vargr missiles.
>> Commander Thompson snarled as his hand slipped on the mouse. Only
>> years of training allowed him to focus enough to push his index finger
>> forward. 'Must...push...left...button...' he thought. All around him,
panicked
>> trainee crewmembers were desperately pulling down the 'help' menus.")
>
>It's a good thing that I have had the chance to learn from my fellow
>TMLers. As a result, I use the "sip, set glass down, swallow, _then_
>open new TML post" routine. Without that iron discipline, instilled by
>many long months of TML subscription, I would now need a new keyboard
>(and at 1:20 AM local, that's a bit of a bother).
Soon I'll recover enough to reply to the next bit...
>I prefer that Gunnery skill, at least at the turret level, should more
>closely resemble Han and Luke on the Millennium Falcon in SW:ANH. Less
>realistic, but more dramatic. (With sentiments like that, now you see
>why I haven't yet progressed beyond "Journeyman Gearhead.")
"The spinal mount operator's seat - the wildest rollercoaster ride on the
ship!"
IIRC, The T4 Naval Architect's handbook
Phil Kitching
- --
http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
"Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 12:35:52 +0000
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: Book review - For the Greater Good [longish]
Martin Dougherty wrote:
>Also; everyone who got a copy of FTGG for review purposes; after
monumental
>hiccups, it's due for release April. Anything you may like to say on the
>subject... please do.
Yes, I read this and enjoyed it. I wrote the following review back in
September when I finished the book but understand that an updated version
has been created, and should be released as an Ebook through Warehouse
Publishing:
http://members.xoom.com/warehousepub
I believe this version should have corrected the typos mentioned in the
review below.
Also, if anyone likes the author's work (he had a hand in Behind the Claw,
Missions of State, Star Mercs and a favourite of mine, The Khiidkar
Incident) you might like to know that I understand a real paper book:
_Behind the Throne_, is due out in May.
Finally, I've appended some comments on reading an e-text which some may
find of interest.
Best wishes for the time of year to all fellow Travellers, may all your
bugs have legs on!
tc
******************************************
For the Greater Good - a review.
"For the Greater Good", an e-novel by Martin Dougherty is an interesting
read. Dougherty, known to Traveller RPG enthusiasts as co-author of such
excellent GURPS: Traveller volumes as "Behind the Claw" and "StarMercs",
tells a curious tale that mixes a Napoleonic setting with fantasy in a
convincing manner. The setting isn't Earth - unless it's the Earth of a
far distant, post-holocaust future - but along with cannon and muskets,
sabres and duelling, sailing ships Lord Nelson would have been at home
with, there is also Thaumaturgy. This is Dougherty's term for the magic
present in the book, but it is well thought out, suitably fearsome and
handled differently to much 'mainstream' fantasy magic which is refreshing.
It is also essential to the story and raises lots of interesting questions.
The story concerns one Jervon Dessartes, a cavalry dragoon who is quick
tempered and yet loyal to what he perceives as his duty. Loyal to an
extreme which causes no end of problems. Accompanied by his faithful
batman Camille - a crusty old sergeant hiding from his past life in the
military - Dessartes goes through various adventures in an effort to
restore the honour of his family. In trouble with his superiors from the
outset over duelling, he's sent on a secret and exceedingly dangerous
mission to try to find long lost artifacts that might be used as weapons in
an upcoming military conflict. Through the people they meet and the
trials they
encounter, both the main characters discover much about themselves and
undergo profound changes. Indeed, characters in the book comment on how
unrecognizable they become. However, as we see all that they go through,
we're drawn into their lives and come to understand why they were what they
were and why they both choose to leave that behind.
All this is set against a background of political strife amongst several
nations as various politicians, generals and thaumaturges (or wizards) vie
for power in a struggle that results in intrigue and war. The politics are
reasonably complex but well thought out and contribute to the reader's
involvement in the book. However, they are not helped by occasionally
bland and undifferentiated names that can make the plot hard to follow. A
little more time spent giving the reader more of a sense of place - before
introducing other factions - would have worked wonders here. (A map would
have been useful and certainly in the tradition of fantasy novels but given
the nature of an e-text distributed in ASCII format, somewhat hard to
implement.) Having said that - and it may be a function of a lack of
familiarity with this type of reading material - it does all work together
and once the various pieces are in place the book moves along at a good
pace. Whether giving glimpses into goings on in high places, dealing with
the grand scale of events, or following the more personal actions of
individuals, the author seems equally at home. He is able to interest the
reader in what is going on with a fine attention to detail that doesn't get
too bogged down and yet conveys a good sense of the 'period'. The fight
scenes are well handled and exciting whether grand scale land warfare, sea
battles or the personal combat of duels. There are a lot of - very
relevant - 'jargon' terms that are used and to this untutored eye at least,
seemed very accurate. A short glossary would have helped however for those
who aren't so accustomed to armour, weapons, and troop dispositions of this
kind of era.
The e-text is not perfect yet. There are typographic errors - particularly
in the last third of the book which suggest a certain lack of attention,
but these are easily fixed. Slightly harder to deal with are occasional
lapses in the dialogue that don't seem to quite ring true. The odd
'modern' expression at first seems out of place but is sparingly used and
once the reader is accustomed to it, acts as a useful and subtle reminder
that this is *not* the past. Dessartes and Camille are the only really
memorable characters. Although others are present through much of the
story, there is a lot of ground to cover and little time to develop them
all in detail. On the other hand, minor characters may only appear briefly
but can be well delineated - one example will have to suffice - a librarian
character with a minor role isn't caricatured stereotypically but made
believable and yet interesting. This seems to be a particular strength of
the author.
In all, "For the Greater Good" was an intriguing and enjoyable book which
kept up the interest till the end. Dougherty has left the way open for
either sequels or stories set in the same world and this reviewer would
certainly welcome them.
Timothy Collinson
******************************************
*Notes on reading an e-novel:*
For the Greater Good was the first e-book I'd ever read and proved an
interesting experience. At first I had assumed that it would be a simple
matter to read the ASCII text file on an ordinary desk PC either during
lunchbreaks at work, at home of an evening or both. For a short time this
worked although I've never found reading large amounts of text on screen
very comfortable and much prefer reading print on paper for ease and speed
of reading experience. Obviously, however, in an increasingly digital age
this is not always practical or convenient. The cost and time of printing
out an entire novel was one such occasion and at this point it becomes
self-evident why there is still a book trade.
Then, only four chapters into the book, I was advised by my doctor not to
spend so much time at the computer and in effect had to give up with the
novel. Not for lack of interest but I found I was reading too little too
infrequently to stay involved with the plot. I had also come to the
conclusion that e-texts were unlikely to really take off until reading an
electronic version of something was as comfortable and convenient as
reading a regular book.
Just a few weeks ago, however, I obtained a PDA that could easily handle
the size of file an ASCII novel occupies (a 3com Palm IIIx for those who
are interested but any of the similar brands would no doubt have worked as
well). It then became clear that I could restart the book using a device
that was a lot easier to read than text on a PC screen and was also as
portable
as a book - meaning that I could fill in those odd moments waiting for
transport, travelling, tucked up in bed and so on to read whenever and
wherever I felt like. (I even had the advantage of being able to search
for particular words or phrases, find the place I'd left off reading
immediately and read in the dark with the aid of the backlight so as not to
disturb the spouse!) OK, so it's still not *quite* as easy to read as
black print on white paper - though the IIIx screen should be complimented
on its extreme readability in a variety of lighting conditions - but it was
certainly well within the margin of comfort that made the exercise
worthwhile. Indeed, I now have several other e-texts - both fiction and
non-fiction and fully plan on continuing reading in this fashion. (The PDA
takes up less room in the pocket too!) It will be interesting to see how
long it is before you can buy mainstream books on sale in bookshops in an
alternative format suitable for PDAs - or will dedicated e-book machines
get into the lead first? The only real snag has been the decrease in
battery life for the PDA doing really solid reading involves but the
convenience is worth it and battery life will no doubt improve with time.
tc
******************************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 13:55:24 +0100
From: Florian Merx
Subject: Design systems
Aloha!
I just signed up and already have a question.
Here goes:
While surfing the net to get material for my new campaign (set in 1114,
Spinward Marches) I found a great variety of ship designs. This is good;
not so good is the fact that they are also made in several different
design systems.
Since I want to make use of the MT rules, it seems to me that at least
3/4 of the designs are unusuable for me. Or are they?
What it comes down to is this:
Where can I find a description of the differences between the design
systems along with some notes on how to convert them?
Have fun,
Flow
- --
Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 13:05:07 +0000
From: Phil Kitching
Subject: RE: Traveller roadshows
"i Steve" wrote:
>
>
>
>>From: "Trevor, Peter"
>
>>or is Traveller a Northern game?
>
>
>Oh god, Yorkshiremen in space! "We've bloody misjumped, you daft bugger!"
>
>Or a special combat rule for Yorkshire Travellers, a la Saint Geoff
>Boycott...ignore normal rate of fire, shoot once per hour, roll 8+ to avoid
>hitting another member of your own squad, else hit target for 1 point of
>damage....
75% of enemy fire is directed at you but has no effect.
The rest of the PCs shoot and die according to the normal rules,
almost as if they're playing an entirely different game.
Dad's from Yorkshire and is a fan of GOD. Me, I'm from Essex where we
don't worship cricket - we just used to play it better than everyone else.
Phil Kitching
- --
http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
"Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 13:02:47 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter"
Subject: RE: [OT] War of 1812
Chris Seamans wrote:
> It's the American way to shoot movies where they're nice and
> cheap to shoot. Sheesh. Most of Escape from New York was shot
> on the streets of St. Louis! Yeah, that's right, over in France!
Trivia: There used to be a cop show called (IIRC) Night Heat.
It was set in an unspecified US city but actually filmed in
Toronto. To get the authentic US city look the film crew had to
add extra litter to the outside scenes. At one time they were
doing a night shoot and stopped for lunch at 3am: while away the
city cleaners wandered by, saw all the litter, and dutifully
removed it ... the continuity problems ment they lost the
"mornings" work!
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 14:09:42 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen
Subject: Re: Terran polities
William F. Hostman writes:
>>There is no evidence that they did, though. And evidence that at least one
>>old nation-state (Nepal) survived to 1109 -- as a district, not a nation.
>>See AM6, pp. 45-48.
>>
>>When the United Nations became a world government, nations became renamed
>>disticts (AM6, p. 46). The District of Nepal remained a constitutional
>>monarchy until a referendum in -2030, so clearly the UN, the Terran
>>Confederation, and the Rule of Man allowed these former nations wide
>>lattitude in internal governing structure.
>
>I doubt there is a continuity there. For example, Egypt, which was nation
>3-5000 years ago, is a nation now; for well over 100 years it was NOT a
>nation. Only China has survived 5000 years with a clear national identity.
There is some continuity at least. The government of 1109 is bound to some
extent by a legal decision made by the "World Court" a few years after
- -2030. It appears that the 3 millenia between -2000 and 1100 are a little
different from the 3 millenia between -1000 BC and 2000 AD. Perhaps analogies
drawn between the two periods are not altogether sound.
>The only reason a region such as nepal would remain a single entity would
>be that such an area is culturally, geographically, and politcally isolated.
Well, I said the evidence wasn't conclusive. If you are bound and determined
that there shall be a break in continuity for most former nations, then you
could certainly use this argument to explain away the survival of Nepal as an
abberation. But as far as the available evidence goes, a certain amount of
continuity is indicated. At the very least the rules for all Earth governments
from the United Nations to the government of 1109 has allowed one nation (or
rather, district) to survive. I don't see why other districts cannot have
survived too.
Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
- - "You don't like the Goths?"
- - "No! Not with the persecution we have to put up with!"
- - "Persecution?"
- - "Religious persecution. We wont stand for it forever."
- - "I thought the Goths let everybody worship as they pleased."
- - "That's just it! We Orthodox are forced to stand around and
watch Arians and Monophysites and Nestorians and Jews going
about their business unmolested, as if they owned the
country. If that isn't persecution, I'd like to know what is!"
-Martin Padway and stranger in bar in
"Lest Darkness Fall"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 08:55:11 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: Drawing Program
If you have a cable modem I'll unload my copy of Viso on you. I NEVER used
it and now no longer even bother installing it. Not because its bad, but
because I'm into too many other things and don't have the time for it. I
have Viso 3.0 business and Viso 3.0 Scientific.
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 1:17 AM
Subject: Re: Drawing Program
>
> >> Anything for PC though?
>
> Yes.
>
> 1. Try to find an old copy of Viso, you don't need the latest, so an old
> version 3 that someone is unloading would do. I bought mine new for
> 79.95. I did my deckplans for the /Mae Lee/ and the /Random Walk/ with
> Viso, but I included some parts I had made in...
>
> 2. FloorPlan Plus (3d, if you want 3d effects). It ranges in price from
> under $10 for the DOS version to about $40 for the Win9x Plus version. I
> was going to do my deckplans in 3d, but it was taking too long and I
> thought I needed the plans quick.
>
> 3. I'll echo Campaign Cartographer as a good choice, but any inexpensive
> CAD program also works, though they aren't going to have the templates and
> such already built.
>
> 4. Corel Draw can be had cheaply.
>
> 5. Star Office can be had free (or for next to nothing) and it includes a
> Drawing component.
>
> Before that I always did deckplans by hand, and I still think that is a
> viable way to go. Draw your plans then scan them with an inexpensive
> scanner, and you can use the scanner for other stuff too. Cheap scanners
> are well under $100 now.
>
> Eris
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1562
***********************************
To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:
unsubscribe traveller-digest
in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.imagiconline.com".
If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is
coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that
address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe
"local-traveller":
subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net
A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".
Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
Return-Path:
Received: from rly-yd05.mx.aol.com (rly-yd05.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.5]) by air-yd04.mail.aol.com (v67.7) with ESMTP; Thu, 23 Dec 1999 08:49:59 -0500
Received: from lists.imagiconline.com (lists.imagiconline.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yd05.mx.aol.com (v67.7) with ESMTP; Thu, 23 Dec 1999 08:49:51 -0500
Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)
by lists.imagiconline.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id IAA31804;
Thu, 23 Dec 1999 08:49:32 -0500 (EST)
(envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com)
Received: by lists.imagiconline.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Thu, 23 Dec 1999 08:46:51 -0500
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
by lists.imagiconline.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id IAA31652
for traveller-digest-outgoing; Thu, 23 Dec 1999 08:46:51 -0500 (EST)
(envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com)
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 08:46:51 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <199912231346.IAA31652@lists.imagiconline.com>
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)
To: traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #1562
Reply-To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com