Traveller-digest     Thursday, November 5 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1100



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Taking The Hit 
Re: Plasma guns, canon, bureaucracy and High Guard 
Striker 
[off topic]other systems [was Re Phooey on Canon]
WHy Subbies?
Re: SDBs (was Re: Taking The Hit)
[TML] Re: May I suggest change / mail filtering
[TML] Re: May I suggest a small change to the list?
Re: System Defense spending on Gov 7 worlds
Re: SDBs (was Re: Taking The Hit)
Re: System Defense spending on Gov 7 worlds
Re: Plasma guns, canon, bureaucracy and High Guard 
re: SDB's
Re: Four Fours SDB
Re: System defense on Gov 7 worlds
FSY Customs Cutter
Re: CANON PROBLEM 3: The Kinunir Question
Re: Piracy by the numbers
Re: Piracy Adventure seeds 
Re: Phooey on canon! (Was: What canon means to me)
Re: Skills in HG combat

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 20:48:40 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Taking The Hit 

>From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
>Subject: Re: Taking The Hit 
...
>>   In the same way that big lasers or PAWS are powerful, they're simply part
>> of the equation that determines military trends in a particular game
universe.
>
>Whatever happened to game balance?

  In what sense?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 20:33:04 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Plasma guns, canon, bureaucracy and High Guard 

>Subject: Re: Plasma guns, canon, bureaucracy and High Guard 
...
>And this gives the Navy permission to kill the victims in order to save them?  
>I thought I'd heard the last of *THAT* kind of nonsense 25 years ago.

  "Mercy" is culturally determined, yes?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 20:32:55 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Striker 

>From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
>Subject: Re: Not Taking the Hit 
...
>> >Nice try, but you didn't answer the question.  Is this in the ruleset 
>> >someplace or is this a variant?
>> 
>>   Striker is a Classic Trav rules addition, and still available from
>> Mr. Miller, IIRC: <FarFuture@aol.com> - another beautiful product.
>
>I've got a copy of it around here someplace.  Bought it in '83.

  So you do realize that it's an official Classic Trav product (as much
as is anything after Books 1-3), and probably the best source (IMO) for
the subjects covered therein?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 12:44:37 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: [off topic]other systems [was Re Phooey on Canon]

>From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
>  Heck, if Trav books are going to be contradicting themselves often enough
>(and thus requiring too much of my time to read over troubleshooting) then
>I'll just hang around the Alternity *Stardrive* web ring for scenarios -

having run alternity,I'll avoid the system mechanics lest they re-do the
StarFrontiers universe... I dislike the mechanics of the system (altho ship
creation is nice).

>and that only after playing all my Star Frontiers stuff again (the SFKH
>series in particular was of higher quality than the IG stuff I bought).
>

speaking of SFAD and SFKH, did they ever come out with the conversions to
the Zeb's Guide mechanics for SFKH?

>...
>>background... they just kept adding. (JFR, GW-UK basically approches
>>universe canon with the mindset of Canon starts over every edition....)
>
>  I'll bet you miss the WFRP-List flamewars, eh? :>

actually, yes I do. Is WFRP-list still up?

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><Mailto:aramis@gci.net>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 13:00:00 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: WHy Subbies?

several items brought this line of thought to me. COmments:

Since lesser patrolled systems are likely to be lesswelcome targets for
merchants, due to higher effective piracy (ashore or underway), and the 3i
has subbies on routes that are designed for mail continuity, NOT safety nor
profitability. Since they HAVE to go where real merchants fear to tread,
and they are lured into this by a more valuable ship that you get IF you
survive the 40 years. THey don't have the opportunity for convoys.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><Mailto:aramis@gci.net>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 22:27:08 -0600
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: Re: SDBs (was Re: Taking The Hit)

<< I am under the impression (from the _Imperium_ boardgame) that BB sized
> SDBs (i.e., monitors) are not uncommon in the Imperium.
>  >>
> This would, in effect, make them battleriders...which is a whole 'nother
>debate entirely!  :-)



Nahh. You gotta be able to carry them around for them to be battle riders.
:-) IIRC, in _Imperium_ monitors are big bastards that pack more punch than
a heavy cruiser.

Okay, I just dug out the box. Monitors carry a higher weapon and screen
factor than any cruiser in the game. No mention of actual tonnage, although
...

... as an interesting note _Imperium_ breaks ship types down into five
categories:

Support Ships: Transports, Tankers
Small Combatants: Scouts, Destroyers
Cruisers: Light, Strike, Heavy, and Attack (the difference between
   Strike and Attack being the primary armament type -- beam or
   missile).
Capital Ships: Dreadnoughts, Improved Dreadnoughts, Battleships,
   and Monitors
Special Ships: Missile Boats, Fighters, Motherships
   (i.e., fighter carriers)

Note that only Dreadnoughts, Battleships, and Monitors are considered
Capital Ships -- the primary distinction seeming to be that such vessels can
carry troops and are capable of surviving fire from planetary defenses.

I used to love to play this game solo -- although it didn't come with enough
counters in my experience.

Hmm. Here's another thing I noticed in a quick lookover. It says here that
the First Interstellar War "began when a Vilani trade caravan ignored Terran
traffic control signals."

The Terrans considered ignoring traffic control around worlds enough of an
offense to start a war over. And some people thought the 3rd Imperium was
strict ...

Ciao,

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 20:37:10 -0800
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: [TML] Re: May I suggest change / mail filtering

>I use this one account to recieve mail from multiple lists; simple
>filtering rules that filter on  <any header> contains "traveller" are more
>than sufficient to keep the lists seperate. I use eudora (v3) on my mac
>most of the time, but have set up similar filtering in outlook on my home
>pc.  The unix gurus here swear by "procmail" as being the be-all and
>end-all of excelent filtering programs, though I've not used it myself.


Unfortunately, I am on the TML, I run a small mail list called TAS to
support my PE campaign, and the mail I send to and from individual members
of this list and my players.

All in all, I have a lot of mail coming in that has Traveller written all
over it.  The bulk of which, admittably, is TML - but that makes the non-TML
mail that much more important to sort out!  :)

I do automate a lot of it - I was just hoping that I'd be able to apply the
same rules (look for the TML on the subject line) to the TML mail.  I am
not, however, going to hold my breath and jump up and down if I can't get my
way!  :p

douglas

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 20:38:24 -0800
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: [TML] Re: May I suggest a small change to the list?

>>--David
>
>Can't you use the reply-to field to filter them? It's what I use.
>
>For those who ask, I'm using Eudora Light.


That's what I currently do, but for some reason about 15% of the mail falls
through the filter for one reason or another.

douglas

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 23:12:40 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: System Defense spending on Gov 7 worlds

DustyLV769@aol.com wrote:
> 
>         I am curious...
> 
>         Since we assume that the local defenses are built and paid for by the local
> government...who takes care of SysDef in cases of balkanized worlds?  Would
> you want to trust some OTHER country w/ the monopoly on the defense
> forces...or would an arms race start, as each nation begins to feel threatened
> by the expanding naval forces of the other nation??
> 
> Dusty

IMHO:

	Best case scenario:

The major powers have formed some kind of international organization, to
which each contributes national forces (e.g., the UN Space Agency at the
beginning of the Interstellar Wars, or Jerry Pournelle's CoDominium). 
This may eventually lead to a unified world government, at which point
the UWP code changes.

	Second-best-case scenario:

The various nations contribute to a system defense fund, which provides
for Imperial system defense forces (viewing the Imperium as an "honest
broker").

	Most likely scenario:

The arms race described above, possibly leading to an intraplanetary
war.

Does anybody have any other major scenarios?

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 00:47:34 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: SDBs (was Re: Taking The Hit)

In a message dated 11/4/98 6:44:31 PM Pacific Standard Time,
DustyLV769@aol.com writes:

<< This would, in effect, make them battleriders...which is a whole 'nother
 debate entirely!  :-)
  >>

Hey; what's an SDB? A battlerider with no tender!....:-)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 00:58:35 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: System Defense spending on Gov 7 worlds

In a message dated 11/4/98 6:58:26 PM Pacific Standard Time,
DustyLV769@aol.com writes:

<< Since we assume that the local defenses are built and paid for by the local
 government...who takes care of SysDef in cases of balkanized worlds?  Would
 you want to trust some OTHER country w/ the monopoly on the defense
 forces...or would an arms race start, as each nation begins to feel
threatened
 by the expanding naval forces of the other nation??
  >>

My opinion is that the Imperium abitrates this (via the subsector Duke) by
assessing the taxes for the whole planet, and each government has to pay an
agreed upon portion. The percentage could be based on each countries GNP
compared to planetary total GNP. This money would then be spent for the
planetary defenses. If the countries can't (or won't) cooperate on which
shipyards to build the SDB's (or whatever ship designs are chosen); then the
Duke could pick a yard somewhere else (how much do you want to guess where
he/she picks?). Lastly; if the ships want to fight each other instead of
intruders; then the Duke could place HIS/HER crews onboard. The down side to
this, is that it seems too "hands on" for the Imperium (though Dulinor might
like this...).

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 01:19:59 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: Re: Plasma guns, canon, bureaucracy and High Guard 

Keven Pittsinger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
2.  You're assuming that at closing for boarding, velocities will be on the 
order of km/s.  More like, on the order of maybe 100s of meters per sec. 
 Big difference.

And I'm *NOT* going to go into something published in a JTAS once that said 
a standard vacc suit could effect up to about 2 km/sec vectoring.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
_The Traveller Book_, pg 78, GDW 1982:
"A Typical vac suit is capable of a total of 100mm of acceleration."

At the game scale involved, 100mm of acceleration is equivalent to
1G in one turn (1000seconds). The paragraph above does not say how
long it takes the vac suit to provide the 100mm vector change, only that
it can produce a total of 100mm. There may very well be advanced
MMU's out there (maybe like the one in the first Star Trek movie?)
capable of more thrust, but I'd not want to spend much time using one.
Vac suit fabric is a lot less safe than starship hull at any speed.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 01:43:57 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: re: SDB's

Joseph R. Deitrich wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hmm. Here's another thing I noticed in a quick lookover. It says here that
the First Interstellar War "began when a Vilani trade caravan ignored Terran
traffic control signals."

The Terrans considered ignoring traffic control around worlds enough of an
offense to start a war over. And some people thought the 3rd Imperium was
strict ...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Depends what the "traffic control signals" were. "Unidentified vessel,
you are approaching a restricted area. Turn away or we will be forced
to fire." could be considered a traffic control signal, couldn't it? <G>

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 17:09:52
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Four Fours SDB

>From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>
>Subject: Re: Four Fours Spofulam SDB?
>
>	Oh dear... I wonder what the little br..., er, darlings were up to
>while I was gone :).
>
>	Does anyone have the design still hanging around?  I'd like to see
>it :).

Ditzie's PA here.

The concept was a craft with a 400 MJ laser, with 4cm of Superdense armour,
capable of 4 gees for 4 hours.

It was basically about a 50 dton sphere, with a single 600 MJ spinal laser,
10 cm of superdense and a HEPLAR drive that pushed it at 4Gs for 4 hours. I
think it had a minimum-size auxilary set of t-plates and a sandcaster.

It was technically illegal, having Heplar but no conventional fusion plant,
and it used TAKAFP, so I'm going to redesign it.

The basic concept is sound, though. And it'll still come in at under MCr 30.

Ian Whitchurch

PS You'd like the spinal-meson gun variant on the 200 dton Interstellar
Wars-era Free Trader

PPS A word from our competition ... 

"The Colonel Rogers class is another fine product of Gridlore Technologies..
Gridlore, *our* products aren't designed by drugged up children."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 18:40:46
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: System defense on Gov 7 worlds

>From: DustyLV769@aol.com
>Subject: System Defense spending on Gov 7 worlds
>
>	I am curious...
>
>	Since we assume that the local defenses are built and paid for by the local
>government...who takes care of SysDef in cases of balkanized worlds?  Would
>you want to trust some OTHER country w/ the monopoly on the defense
>forces...or would an arms race start, as each nation begins to feel
threatened
>by the expanding naval forces of the other nation??

I'd personally imagine that the major states would each have some sort of
flotilla-to-fleet. I think they'd each claim, and thus need to protect,
bits of the outsystem.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 18:51:02
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: FSY Customs Cutter

>From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>
>Subject: Re: Four Fours Spofulam SDB?
>
>	Oh dear... I wonder what the little br..., er, darlings were up to
>while I was gone :).

This is technically spam, but I'm proud of it, so I'll repost it.

It's an attempt to go low-end, into the cheap, low-capability, mass end of
the market.

It's a police/customs launch ...

It's actually a modified version of the FS standard TL13 anti-shipping
missile ('We have three basic loadouts ... det laser, combustion laser, and
auditor').

OK. Here goes. Missile first, then we demonstrate how to modify it into a
customs launch ('Get one auditor. Dice finely. Jam into warhead space').

*********************************************************************

Famile Spofulam TL13 Standard Anti-Shipping Missile

1.633 m3 Adv Comp Lam (17.963t, KCr 13)

500 kkm TL12 Laser Commo (0.028 m3, 0.056t, KCr 56)

3 MW Fusion Plant (1m3, 3t, KCr 400)

3 MW TL 13 batteries (1.5 m3, 3.55t, KCr 12 - 56 mins output)

1200 kN HEPLAR engine (0.6 m3, 0.6 t, KCr 6)

4 hrs Heplar Fuel (3.6 m3, 0.3t)

400 MJ X-ray Laser (0.472 m3, 0.472t, KCr 48)

TL12 50 kkm Beam Pointer (2.667 m3, 2.667t, KCr 267)

1 shot/min evacuator (0.092 m3, 0.092t, KCr 46)

300 kg one-shot cartridge (0.3 m3, 0.3t, KCr 15) (assumes laser cartriges
cost Cr 25/MJ)

The whole thing costs KCr 688, masses 30 ton, and turns into a nice 11.2
m3 sphere (0.7 dtons, 2.78 m diameter) and pulls 4.0 gees for 2 hours. It
has Armour Factor 87, and is completely reliant on targeting from the
mother ship, having no integral sensors.

**********************************************************

OK. So we need to turn this into a Customs Launch. We have, IMO, up to 30
tons of mass to play with, and plenty of armour.

Inflate the beach ball shape to be 6 dtons (84 m3). The armour falls from
AF 87 to AF 22 (dont get shot at) (*Cue Ditzie Stage Left with massive air
pump*). 72 m3 to play with, to go with the 30t.

Add a TL12 Sens 12.5 PEMS (0.1 m3, 0.1t, KCr 500) (*Sounds of hammering*).

Add 2 TL12 CM 0.8/CP 1.25 Computers (0.04 m3, 0.008t, KCr 2) (*Sounds of
high-pitched whining about not being able to doooooooo anything*)

2 Workstations (14m3, 0.4t, KCr 5)

2 Bunks (28 m3, 1 t, KCr 2) <Mass includes 1 auditor and 1 beefy Marine
type *Can Iiiiiiii take the Marine-weeeeeeeny home wiiiith me ????*>

4 G Compensation (0.5 m3,0.25 t, KCr 25) <*But the mariiiiiine doesnt want
to play graaaav pong*>

Type III LS (0.4 m3, 0.4 t, KCr 30)

Extra 16 hours HFuel (14 m3, 1.0 t)

Standard airlock (3 m3, 0.2 t, KCr 5)

Sanitary Facility (3.5 m3, 0.2, KCr 1)

Extra 1.5 MW power (0.5 m3, 1.5t, KCr 100)

Total mass is therefore 34.3 t, total cost is KCr 1358 - call it a round
KCr 1360 including some nice chairs and fuzzy dice. It is capable of 3.5
gees for 20 hours.

Under normal operations, the Cutter will pull 2 Gees, as the full 3.5 gees
requires use of battery power.

Note that the small size of fusion plants at TL13 allows the use of
cheaper Heplar, rather than expensive T-plates.

Whilst technically capable of up to 2 weeks life support, most trips will
be a lot shorter. The pilot and gunner usually share one bunk, with the
marine and auditor sharing the other.

You could build a cargo version by eliminating the 2 bunks, and having 28
m3 of cargo space.

It's a lot cheaper than ships boats under previous Traveller design rules ...
taking the laser out cuts the cost by KCr 350, if you are really cheap.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 00:23:33 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: CANON PROBLEM 3: The Kinunir Question

david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote

> Peter's solution (Norris retrieves his DAD'S Warrant at Shionthy) is
> better, except that (as about three people have pointed out, and I 
> didn't include originally because I thought it was a known thing ;-) 
> Warrants are not generally made out to specific individuals. Take this 
> out and it looks better.

Do you _really_ think that the Emperor is in the practice of handing out
his Imperial Power to just anyone without some control over who this
anyone is?

It is true that the "canon" Imperial Warrant shown in the Library Data
does not have a name on it.  However this may be so that spys (who will
not necessarily be using their own name) can use them.  I think that
almost all Imperial Warrants come in _envelopes_ with the bearers name
on them.  I think the warrent Norris used was in an envelope (of
Imperial Stationary) saying "The Duke of Regina" on it.  It seems to me
that if anyone, especially a Noble, uses the Emperors power when they do
not have permission to do so that this is a flat out, no questions
asked, case of Treason.  This is the sort of thing that if you do it you
end up dead somewhere, the only question is if they do it legally to
make an example of you for others or if you just vanish.

The notion that you can just use an Imperial Warrent you happen to find
and not expect to be considered to be treasonasly usurping the Emperors
power is dangerously naive.  That is why I suggested that the Warrent
was origionally intended for his Father and said "The Duke of Regina" on
it.  I know that Norris's use of it was for the good of the Imperium but
I just do not see it as a good idea for the Emperor to let people
(especially Nobles who represent a greater threat of Civil War) use
their power uncontrollably.

If Norris had just picked up someone elses Imperial Warrent and used it
I would expect that Strephon would have had him killed in a way that
made it look like an accident.  I would also expect that this is more or
less what Norris would expect as well.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 14:09:40 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Piracy by the numbers

At 14:31 3/11/98 EST, DustyLV769 wrote:

>	 I would think that if you tight-beamed the target vessel and said "don't
>even try to call for help or I'll blow you away", then most merchants would
>just give over the cargo and not risk it...esp since the pirate would have
>enough time to destroy the merchant if they violated the order.  And
remember,
>every turn that the SDB doesn't know whats going on (or spends trying to
>figure it out) is another turn for the pirate to work.  It seems to me
>everybody assumes that SDB crews are on a constant state of General Quarters,
>and are thus instantly ready for immediate decisive action (this comes, no
>doubt, from AD&D, where PC's routinely sleep in full plate armor, even after
>having ridden in it all day! <G>).  Crews get complacent and sloppy, esp.
in a
>system where nothing much ever happens.

And how will the pirate know the Merchie has yelled, seeing as said merchie
has a tightbeam transeiver? Note that the victim will yell for help to the
homeworld, leaving the problem of finding the SDB to them.

The SDB doesn't need to be at GQ for a near instant response to a call.
When the call comes in the Officer of the Watch sets the course as he
informs the Captain. The CO says "go for them" and off they go. GQ can be
called as you go, as it's going to be at least an hour before the SDB is in
sensor or gun range.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 14:16:04 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Piracy Adventure seeds 

At 14:49 3/11/98 -0500, Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:

>> >Because they're relatively cheap as warships go.  And they're both
standard
>> designs which makes them cheaper in quantity.  They're also pretty heavily
>> armed for their size class as well as heavily armoured in comparison to
>> civilian targets.
>> 
>>   Gazelles have J-5 (?) and they're going to be assigned to positional
defense?
>
>They're 400 ton boats designed for interdiction and customs duties.  The J5 
>just lets them get around easier.  Can you say 'Colonial Fleet'?
>
>> Wouldn't they do the patrols and let equivalent performance SDBs do orbits?
>
>At 350ish MCr per, they're under half the cost of the Dragon.  And they're
Jump-capable.  Like I say, an appropriate boat to run across in a backwater.

Can I ask what, if anything, is wrong with the Type T Patrol Cruiser? At
MCr221.04 with two triple lasers and two triple missle turrets it seems
like a nice reasonably cheap patrol vessel. And for something a bit bigger
how about a Mercenary Cruiser? With guns etc they go at about MCr500, and
with eight turrets to play with they should be able to have pirate-critical
capable batteries installed.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 15:09:22 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Phooey on canon! (Was: What canon means to me)

At 00:19 4/11/98 +0000, SD Mooney wrote:

>No - I want the Traveller universe to remain consistent internally. I don't
>want the great big universe shifting messes that things like TNE generated
>with:
>
>'Thruster Plates are unrealistic so everything uses HePLAR and T plates are
>forbidden'
>And jump drives and meson guns are realistic?
>
>'Lets handwave laser weapons with a grav pulse to fix them and at the same
>time drop fusion/plasma weapons because they aren't realistic'....
>And the grav pulse handwave is...?
>
>I want to play Traveller - for realistic Sci-Fi I sometimes play 2300.
>Traveller *fundamentally* isn't a realistic 57th Century game. We *can't
>predict* the future. So I object to people saying this and that isn't
>realistic under todays' knowledge. Yes, let's smooth it over if we can but
>you aren't playing 'Traveller' the setting if you assume that all modern
>Sci-Fi is more appropriate. Fine - use the Traveller rules for your game,
>but that is not the setting we know and love.
>
>Canon is contradictory (by the very nature of multiple authors etc) but
>needs to be homogenised as much as possible to make it work.
>
>This isn't a rant at TNE - it is just the easiest rule set to point the
>finger at for changing fundamentals of the background.

I reckon that HG is at least a pretty close second - Ships can now be up to
200 times bigger than before and have armour. Jump distance is directly
limited by TL (in the LBBs computer size and drive size are limited by TL,
and they limit jump range, but TL12 allows you J6, IIRC). HG introduced
Thrusters, whereas the LLBs could be read either way. HG also introduced
agility as a concept and energy weapons PAWs, etc, all of which
dramatically changed the optimal way to design a ship.

Actually Striker made a fair mess, too. Before Striker it took a real
expert to penetrate Combat Armour with a laser.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 14:48:19 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Skills in HG combat

At 16:19 3/11/98 -0800, Steven Hudson wrote:

>  Sorry, I meant _capitalist_ deviant (although I suspect Mr. Whitchurch
>was the battery power evangelist you talked to). BTW, does FS know about
>you? If so, you might want to specialize in armour and screens...

This reminds me - Were battery power densities increased in FF&S2? I tried
to make a battery supplemented laser with FF&S! and rapidly found that
unless it only had to fire for a very short period a Fusion plant and fuel
was smaller than the battery and would power it for months. Of course the
battery was very cheap.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1100
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Thursday, November 5 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1101



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Medicine in Traveller 4 : Drugs, Poisons and Disease (long)'
Re: Plasma guns, canon, bureaucracy and High Guard
Re: Maize in the old world
Re: May I suggest a small change to the list?
Re: SDBs (was Re: Taking The Hit)
Re: Piracy by the numbers 
re: Canon
Re: Off topic 
Re: Phooey on canon! (Was: What canon means to me)
Re: Medicine in Traveller 3a: Nuclear Radiation (long)
Re: May I suggest a small change to the list?
Re: What's a backwater? 
Re: Batteries
Re: SDBs
Re: System Defense spending on Gov 7 worlds
Re: Skills in HG combat
Re: Subsidized merchants (was Re: Piracy by the numbers)
Re: CANON PROBLEM 3: The Kinunir Question
Re: System Defense spending on Gov 7 worlds
Energy Points & 100d Limit
Re: [off topic]other systems
The Kuwait War

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 16:22:54 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Medicine in Traveller 4 : Drugs, Poisons and Disease (long)'

At 08:46 4/11/98 +1100, Robert O'Connor wrote:

>Biological warfare agents are usually bacterial or viral, optimised
>for infectivity (respiratory droplets), infectivity (very high) and
>severity (high lethality).

IIRC there has been a fair bit of research into diseases that cause very
severe fevers, etc but have a very low death rate for use as incapacitants.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 15:44:46 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Plasma guns, canon, bureaucracy and High Guard

At 14:25 4/11/98, Ian Whitchurch wrote:

>Yep. If you are using FFS2, small PAWs (especially circular PAWs) have
>similar functionality to plasma and fusion guns under HG - short range
>nutcrackers that are sand-resistant.

How similar are these circular PAW rules to Merrick's? Using his I made a
very 'entertaining' BB based on a spherical 500kDT hull with a circular PAW
wrapped around it. IMO anything like that really changes the PAW/Meson Gun
balance (unless MGs can be done like this too, of course).

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 15:47:26 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Maize in the old world

At 22:26 3/11/98 -0600, Eris Reddoch wrote:

>IF the climate in Britain during that period was warm and wet enough
>for maize to grow and produce good yeilds.  Maybe I'm wrong, but
>wasn't the climate somewhat colder in those days?  Again I could be
>wrong, but corn isn't really a cold climate crop is it?

The climate was rather warmer up until the end of the medieval period. The
century with the 100 years war and the plague (15th, I think) started with
three consecutive crop failures, and the climate got colder and wetter from
there. IIRC the coldest point was in the 1700s, when you could skate across
the Thames at London in winter.


- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 17:10:01 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: May I suggest a small change to the list?

At 12:02 4/11/98 -0600, David Lightfinger wrote:
>Douglas Glatz wrote:

>> What I would like to suggest, and since the TML is a majordomo list it is
>> fairly simple (a change of the configuration file would be required, making
>> it automatic), is that a header be added to the subject lines of mail
coming
>> from the list.  [TML] seems appropriate, what do the rest of you think?
>
>I second this motion. I have 4 other mailing lists that get sent to my
>account, two of them do not have headers - TML and a small, but
>extremely important list to me. Thus, I have to wade through TML posts
>to find the important posts. It will also make mail filters easier to
>configure for others.

I simply filter off the Reply-to: line.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 17:40:20 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: SDBs (was Re: Taking The Hit)

At 15:10 4/11/98 -0600, Joseph R. Dietrich wrote:

>>I think canon (Ack!) said somewhere that they can get to 5000 tons disp. I
>>have seen SDB's in JTAS#22 that were 1000 and 2000 tons. Sturdy birds...
>
>
>Let's not forget Defense *CruRon* Regina mentioned in the _Rebellion
>Sourcebook_ and _Fighting Ships of the Shattered Imperium_, as well as
>other references to "monitors" in various sources. IIRC, the former was
>listed as an example of a system squadron (and thus are non-jump capable
>system defense boats).
>
>I am under the impression (from the _Imperium_ boardgame) that BB sized
>SDBs (i.e., monitors) are not uncommon in the Imperium.

I've always assumed that there are some really big SDBs out there. For one
you need them if the invader has Tigeress' or 25000DT 'riders. For another
how else does a system spend its defense budget?

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 15:38:28 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Piracy by the numbers 

At 21:25 3/11/98 -0500, Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:

>I wanna see them justify their defense spending in backwater worlds.  The 
>theory that subbies *won't* visit backwaters is totally against the purpose 
>the subbies were built in the first place.

There's your justification right there - the Type Ms that will be visiting
and their predators.

BTW a world with a UWP of D555555-5 (dead average for a type 'D' starport)
will have a peacetime naval budget in TCS of: 500*0.95*500,000 (assuming a
pop multiplier of 5) = local MCr237.500. If they do their buying at a TL12
(pretty averge TL for a type "A" starport) world not too far away they'll
have TL12 MCr97.794. I belive it's normal to assume the Striker rule for
off-world equipment in these cases, so maintenence will run to 20% of the
ship's value per year, giving us a total fleet value of TL12 MCr488.971.
This should be enough for a couple of Patrol Cruisers, though I suppose in
HG these are TL13, seeing as they have J4. It certainly should buy a
cut-down patrol ship and a squadron of low-grade fighters suitable for
sensor sweeps along a 100d planetary boundary.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 17:50:15 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: re: Canon

At 14:26 4/11/98 -0800, Bruce Alan Macintosh wrote:

>There are stealth technologies - thermal masking, radar stealthing, milblack
>hulls. They help, just not enough to let you hide at medium or short ranges
>This is not necessarily a bad thing. It's worth noting that the *only* era
>I can think of in which naval sensor ranges were shorter than naval weapon 
>ranges is the twentieth century - submarines, carrier-aircraft (considered
>as a weapon for the carrier rather than as distinct entities), and SSMs. 
>For the previous four thousand years of naval warfare, sensor ranges
(=eyeballs)
>exceeded weapon ranges. The idea that starship combat would be
sensor-dominated
>with short sensor ranges seems to have originated with 2300AD (and not been
>very well handled there...); I don't see any reason to expect it to be 
>that way...

I once played a fair bit of Star Cruiser (2300AD's space combat system) and
found that in general with the middle period ships sensor ranges weren't
that short. Earlier on they were 'cause the sensors were crap, and later
because fast det-laser missiles were the main punch. However even then we
never found the sensor ranges to be too short, in actual fact we found the
playing area to be too small to allow attempts to flank a squadron without
getting locked up.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 15:01:35 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Off topic 

At 17:30 3/11/98 -0800, Steven Hudson wrote:
>>From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
>>Subject: Re: Off topic (re: response; long)
>...
>>to be used by the police and the armed forces. Thus the European
anti-firearms
>>laws passed, starting at the beginning of the 20th. century. (I also
found it
>...
>
>  IIRC, both mainland Europe and the UK had more restricted firearms
>possession back somewhat further; I wonder if the British had been
>influenced by the English Civil War and various later uprisings?

Mainland Europe may have, but I'm fairly sure that England didn't until
after WWII. They had a big problem arming the Home Guard during the early
stages of WWII because the plans they had all assumed the populace would
have guns, but they'd all been turned in and destroyed in the '20s.

>  FWIW, military technology has so drastically changed since even the turn
>of the century that all modern militaries in the OECD have an _effective_
>monopoly on violence*, although it is highly dubious to try and contemplate
>a situation in which the US military (for example) would turn en masse
against
>the civil order. OTOH, it happened in Argentina.

I'm not entirely sure this is true. New Zealanders have a lot of guns,
there is a lot of wilderness and our military is small and very under
equipped. No tanks, not many artillery pieces and an Army of under 10,000
for a population of 3.5 million.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 15:55:39 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Phooey on canon! (Was: What canon means to me)

At 00:19 4/11/98 +0000, SD Mooney wrote:

>No - I want the Traveller universe to remain consistent internally. I don't
>want the great big universe shifting messes that things like TNE generated
>with:
>
>'Thruster Plates are unrealistic so everything uses HePLAR and T plates are
>forbidden'
>And jump drives and meson guns are realistic?
>
>'Lets handwave laser weapons with a grav pulse to fix them and at the same
>time drop fusion/plasma weapons because they aren't realistic'....
>And the grav pulse handwave is...?
>
>I want to play Traveller - for realistic Sci-Fi I sometimes play 2300.
>Traveller *fundamentally* isn't a realistic 57th Century game. We *can't
>predict* the future. So I object to people saying this and that isn't
>realistic under todays' knowledge. Yes, let's smooth it over if we can but
>you aren't playing 'Traveller' the setting if you assume that all modern
>Sci-Fi is more appropriate. Fine - use the Traveller rules for your game,
>but that is not the setting we know and love.
>
>Canon is contradictory (by the very nature of multiple authors etc) but
>needs to be homogenised as much as possible to make it work.
>
>This isn't a rant at TNE - it is just the easiest rule set to point the
>finger at for changing fundamentals of the background.

I reckon that HG is at least a pretty close second - Ships can now be up to
200 times bigger than before and have armour. Jump distance is directly
limited by TL (in the LBBs computer size and drive size are limited by TL,
and they limit jump range, but TL12 allows you J6, IIRC). HG introduced
Thrusters, whereas the LLBs could be read either way. HG also introduced
agility as a concept and energy weapons PAWs, etc, all of which
dramatically changed the optimal way to design a ship.

Actually Striker made a fair mess, too. Before Striker it took a real
expert to penetrate Combat Armour with a laser.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 16:16:14 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Medicine in Traveller 3a: Nuclear Radiation (long)

At 08:29 4/11/98 +1100, Robert O'Connor wrote:

[Much interesting stuff snipped]

>Acute dose (rems) Probable effect on population
>5 to 70           Headache, nausea and vomiting
>                  for 6-12 hours in 10%.
>70 to 150         Nausea and vomiting for 2-20 hours in 30%
>150 to 300        Nausea, vomiting and fatigue in 20-70%,
>                  onset 2 hrs to 2 days after exposure.
>                  10-50% will require hospitalisation 3-5 weeks
>                  after exposure. 10% will die.
>300 to 530        Nausea, vomiting and fatigue in 50-90% after
>                  2 hours to 3 days. Unable to perform complex
>                  tasks (prompt onset).
>                  Hospital : 10 to 80% afer 2-5 weeks.
>                  Fatalities : 50% at upper dose range.
>530 to 830        Nausea, vomitting and fatigue in 80-100%
>                  after 2 hours to 2 days. Skin erythema.
>                  100% hospitalisation within 5 weeks
>                  50-99% fatalities.
>830 to 3000       Nausea, vomitting, weakness, diarrhoea in 100%
>                  after 30 minutes to two days.
>                  100% hospitalisation within 6 days.
>                  100% fatality rate in 2 to 3 weeks.(1000 rems)
>                  100% hospitalisation within 4 days
>                  100% fatality rate in 5 to 10 days.(3000 rems)
>3000 to 8000      Nausea, vomitting, diarrhoea, headache
>                  within 30 minutes to two days.
>                  Partial thickness burns.
>                  100% hospitalisation within 2 days.
>                  100% fatality rate within 3 days.
>8000+             Nausea, vomitting, headache within 30 minutes to
>                  one day.
>                  100% mortality rate within 24 hours.

I read somewhere (I'll try an find it later) that most estimates of
fatalities (which are the same as what you have here) in the 150-300 rem
range are probably way too optimistic because they were taken from
populations that had reasonable medical care. The conclusion of this study
was that without medical care doses as low as 150-200 rems could well have
death rates of 50%.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 02:04:45 PST
From: "Andrew Hewson" <loup_wolf@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: May I suggest a small change to the list?

Wonderful idea !

>From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
>To: "Traveller List" <traveller@MPGN.COM>
>Subject: May I suggest a small change to the list?
>Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:27:06 -0800
>Reply-To: traveller@MPGN.COM
>
>Heyo,
>
[snip]
>
>What I would like to suggest, and since the TML is a majordomo list it is
>fairly simple (a change of the configuration file would be required, making
>it automatic), is that a header be added to the subject lines of mail coming
>from the list.  [TML] seems appropriate, what do the rest of you think?
>
>douglas
>


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 23:04:15 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: What's a backwater? 

At 20:36 4/11/98 -0800, Steven Hudson wrote:

>  Using standard exchange ratios (Striker, although that not being 
>real Traveller we'll use the identical [?] chart in TCS) that's less
>than 22 BCr of TL C starships - call it 21 after transaction costs
>incurred in dealing with those tricky off-worlders.

Actually the blasted things are not the same. The Striker one is much
steeper and thus rather more punitive to low tech worlds than the TCS one.
I use the TCS table because it is repeated in TNE, whereas the Striker
doesn't (to the best of my knowledge) appear anywhere else.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 20:39:01
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Batteries

>From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
>Subject: Re: Skills in HG combat
>
>At 16:19 3/11/98 -0800, Steven Hudson wrote:
>
>>  Sorry, I meant _capitalist_ deviant (although I suspect Mr. Whitchurch
>>was the battery power evangelist you talked to). BTW, does FS know about
>>you? If so, you might want to specialize in armour and screens...
>
>This reminds me - Were battery power densities increased in FF&S2? I tried
>to make a battery supplemented laser with FF&S! and rapidly found that
>unless it only had to fire for a very short period a Fusion plant and fuel
>was smaller than the battery and would power it for months. Of course the
>battery was very cheap.

I dont know if battery power density has increased, but it is kind of OK
under FFS2. The problem is the second hour of combat - generally, you only
have juice for short combat durations (although for vehicles, 5 minute
output batteries are great for powering honking big lasers. Accumulators
are the bitch, but you link the batteries to a small chemical or similar
power plant to recharge the batteries for the next 5 minutes of hell).

The big advantage of batteries is their low cost - about one tenth of the
cost of fusion. 

The Abomination Known As Fusion Plus completely out-competes Batteries, of
course. And fusion, for combat use.

Finally, I think you can build a completely battery-powered starship at
TL15, but it's very much 'mad scientist' type stuff ...

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 04:49:35 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: SDBs

>From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
...
>Hey; what's an SDB? A battlerider with no tender!....:-)

  "Which is why, good sir, you need to strongly consider purchasing
the "Leaping Chihuahua" from our fine Mad Dog SDV product line."

  "The Jump 1 "Leaping Chihuahua" - for when your own system just isn't
enough of a target rich environment."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 04:50:11 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: System Defense spending on Gov 7 worlds

>From: DustyLV769@aol.com
...
>	Since we assume that the local defenses are built and paid for by the local
>government...who takes care of SysDef in cases of balkanized worlds?  Would
>you want to trust some OTHER country w/ the monopoly on the defense
>forces...or would an arms race start, as each nation begins to feel threatened
>by the expanding naval forces of the other nation??

  Well, long-term military budgets do go up to 15% from the 3% CT average,
and international tension is listed as a great cause.

  Now, picture the 2300 AD background, a replace "Kafer" with "pirate";
"Back off you SouthWestern Pact swine! We responded to that merchants call
for help _first_, and I don't _care_ if your shattered hulk is on a better
intercept vector!"  :>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 04:50:28 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Skills in HG combat

>From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
...
>This reminds me - Were battery power densities increased in FF&S2? I tried
>to make a battery supplemented laser with FF&S! and rapidly found that
>unless it only had to fire for a very short period a Fusion plant and fuel
>was smaller than the battery and would power it for months. Of course the
>battery was very cheap.

  No idea, but in HG only the 36 EP/Dt Jump drive accumulators worked
worth a damn, and under Striker those were physically impossible. My
recommendation to a CT campaign would be to ignore the 36/t units and
try and handwave a weapon throughput of less than 252mw/sec for beam
lasers (which may mean addressing fusion plant outputs, which would at
least help reduce the "my ship is _melting_" problem).
 
        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 13:01:55 +0000
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Subsidized merchants (was Re: Piracy by the numbers)

At 12:04 04/11/98 -0600, yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich) wrote:
>
>The problem I have with this thinking is that it assumes governments that
>are willing to subsidize big fat merchant ships aren't willing to subsidize
>protection for said big fat merchant ships.

<snip>

I have to agree with this.

IMO, if you have a backwater planet and you want to increase trade,
the number one priority is to stop piracy within 100D of the mainworld
(and possibly in a known volume of space out to the 100D of the Star).

The subsidy cost of some Type Ms would almost certainly be better spent
on fighters or SDBs (depending on how many vessels were deemed necessary).

The dear old Type A can be quite economical on very low trade levels [1],
especially if it can put passengers in the gunner's bunks and isn't
paying off the cost of triple laser turrets or replenishing a dozen
missiles every trip.

[1] That means "very low trade levels for the planet".
You might well need 100% of the cargo hold full but that's only about 80dton.
80dton per fortnight per destination is not a lot of cargo.

Phil Kitching

- --
  Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
 "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 14:58:56 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: CANON PROBLEM 3: The Kinunir Question

David Jaques-Watson writes:

>I'm not that happy with Hans' solution, it is really just a fix of 3.2 ("
>Norris did go off and retrieve his Warrant, but from some other Red Zone.
>It was done in secret because Santanocheev had banned all contact with Red
>Zone worlds in the Marches.") This was the solution that I said was just a
>bad band-aid fix.

That's up to you, of course, but I'd like to point out that it isn't "just"
a band-aid fix made up by me. It relies on a canonical reference that you
just happen not to know of. I dug it up last night and here it is:

REF 3.6: _Spinward Marches Campaign_ p. 11 says: "Norris appealed directly
to the Emperor of the Imperial forces in the Marches [...] Although the
Emperor responded by issuing a warrant which put Norris in command, it was
lost en route; due to the distances and transit times involved, the very
existence of the document remained unknown." And on p. 16 it further says:
"Norris, with some slight evidence that his warrant from the Emperor was on
Algine (aboard a wrecked cruiser down on the planet), led a secret expedition
to that interdicted world to recover the document. The quandary that faced
Norris was that he was prohibited from going to the interdicted world of
Algine without the express permission of the Emperor. The warrant, if it was
there, would be permission to go there; if it wasn't there, he risked his
career." 

So you have two mutually exclusive versions of the story (the warrant can't
both be on the KINUNIR and the wrecked cruiser on Algine, right?) where one
version contains serious problems (as you pointed out) and the other not
only contains no contradictions but is also the original version. IMO I've
seldom seen a clearer choice. YMMV.
 
>Peter's solution (Norris retrieves his DAD'S Warrant at Shionthy) is
>better, except that (as about three people have pointed out, and I didn't
>include originally because I thought it was a known thing ;-) Warrants are
>not generally made out to specific individuals. Take this out and it looks
>better.

Personally I think it extremely unlikely that the Emperor would make out
Imperial Warrants that weren't both personal (not just "The Duke of Regina"
but "Norris Xxxxxx Xxxxxx Aledon, 13th (or whatever number Norris' dad had)
Duke of Regina" and time-limited in some way (though the limit could be
quite large given the transit times of the Imperium).

BTW. just to add a reference: _Travellers' Digest_ #18 says that Emperor
strephon delegated war power to Duke Norris of Regina during the FOURTH
Frontier War, more than a decade before our Norris became duke. This can
be explained by assuming that Norris' father was named Norris too. It fits
with Peter's "Norris retrieved his father's warrant" story, but it also
fits with the other story. It gives a reason why Norris might think that
the Emperor would give war powers to a junior duke (IMO the dukedoms of
Mora, Lunion, and Rhylanor are all senior to Regina); there was a
precedent (So why did Norris' DAD get his war powers? Maybe he was a
Grand Admiral in his own right?) Anyway, it makes for a nice bit of
historical continuity. 


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 08:50:47 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Re: System Defense spending on Gov 7 worlds

Steven Hudson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  Now, picture the 2300 AD background, a replace "Kafer" with "pirate";
"Back off you SouthWestern Pact swine! We responded to that merchants call for help _first_, and I don't _care_ if your shattered hulk is on a better
intercept vector!"  :>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Isn't that every pirate's dream - to have not one navy attempting to turn
you and your crew into glory points, but two (or more) all at once!

Maybe you'd get lucky and they'd get so interested in which of them
got to nail you that they'd wind up shooting at each other instead...<G>

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 08:04:49 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us>
Subject: Energy Points & 100d Limit

According to pg 57, MT Refereee's Manual, under the definition of 
Power, an energy point (EP) is equal to 250MW.

According to pg 13, MT Starship Operator's Manual, under Jumping 
Within A Gravity Well, starships can jump out of a gravity well, 
although it is extremely dangerous to do so within 10d, and difficult 
within 100d.  If a jump vector plots an emergence within 100d, the 
starship _violently_ emerges at the 100d limit.  Under Flight 
Controls, earlier in the book, Jump Vectors are plotted based on 
origin and destination point, relative velocities of the systems, 
velocity of the vessel and exact time of entry.  This implies the 
following, IMO:

1)  Navigators can determine a jump point outside the 100d limit of a 
gravity well.  Therefore starships don't have to emerge at 100d if 
the navigator wants to emerge further out.

2)  As the words "gravity well" imply, the source of the well doesn't 
have to be a planet.  It can be a star, a black hole, or a very large 
starship.  (Brings to mind the concept of an Ancient space-trap that 
protects a system by producing an intense gravity well, pulling 
starships out of jumpspace before they can get to the original 
Ancient base.  Trapped in a derelict space yard, hmmm, "The Bermuda 
Quadrant", hmmm.)

3)  While there is no direct corrollary between normal space and jump 
space, intense gravity wells do have some impact on the emergence 
point of a starship.  Apparently, if the emergence point is located 
within the gravity well, then jump space displaced the vessel into 
the nearest point in normal space at the 100d limit of a gravity 
well.  This relocation phenomenon may be what causes the violence of 
the eruption into normal space.  (This assumption allows referees to 
not worry about vectors of approach and whether there are three stars 
between the jump's origin and destination.  However, it doesn't quite 
deal with the black hole statement on empty hexes.  Further 
extrapolation in this area could imply that the intense gravity well 
is so strong that it not only warps normal space [blue event 
horizon], but that it also impacts jump space levels, too.)

Does this help?

Jason

============================
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer I
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375

Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 08:08:34 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: [off topic]other systems

>From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
...
>having run alternity,I'll avoid the system mechanics lest they re-do the
>StarFrontiers universe... I dislike the mechanics of the system (altho ship
>creation is nice).

  I think the rules are a bit sad, but scenario ideas should be OK? <shrug>.

...
>speaking of SFAD and SFKH, did they ever come out with the conversions to
>the Zeb's Guide mechanics for SFKH?

  I don't think so - you mean the skill system changes? FWIW, probably
all of the SFKH modules were worth converting, plus one or two of the
regular SF series. I suppose that it will never be substantially re-issued
under the "Not Made By Us" complex - it would only be natural for the WotC
designers to feel that way.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 08:09:24 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: The Kuwait War

>From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
>Subject: Re: Taking The Hit 
...
>It was a *VERY* good proving ground for testing new weapon technologies.  How 
>much better can you *get* than a live-fire exercise that some Pentagon hack 
>can't fake the reports on??

  As far as the news agencies go, GIGO. I remember the military history
types around campus having a good laugh back then, as though a 120mm rifle
sniping off a stationary target at 4000m on a giant billiard table was in
some way relevant.

  And of course the quiet desperation of seeing yet another text doing
something moronic like referring to a fitters vehicle as a "tank".

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1101
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Thursday, November 5 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1102



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Jump Range Limits By TL
re: Jump Range Limits By TL
Re: UTUP (long)
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1100
Re: Small Craft Sensors under High Guard
Re: The Kuwait War
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1095
aircraft losses
e: CANON PROBLEM 3: The Kinunir Question
Hard Times Fusion Drive in HG terms
Re: CANON PROBLEM 3: The Kinunir Question
Re: May I suggest a small change to the list?
Re: canon
Re: Not Taking the Hit 
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1095
Re: Hard Times Fusion Drive in HG terms
Re: aircraft losses (off topic)
Re: Plasma guns, canon, bureaucracy and High Guard
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1095
Re: aircraft losses (off topic) 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 09:47:39 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us>
Subject: Jump Range Limits By TL

Robert Boelyn wrote:

> I reckon that HG is at least a pretty close second - Ships can now be up to
> 200 times bigger than before and have armour. Jump distance is directly
> limited by TL (in the LBBs computer size and drive size are limited by TL,
> and they limit jump range, but TL12 allows you J6, IIRC). HG introduced
> Thrusters, whereas the LLBs could be read either way. HG also introduced
> agility as a concept and energy weapons PAWs, etc, all of which
> dramatically changed the optimal way to design a ship.

In all actuality, I believe that Jump Range Limits _are_ based on 
Tech Level, according to the following progression:

TL  9 = Jump 1
TL  11 = Jump 2
TL  12 = Jump 3
TL  13 = Jump 4
TL  14 = Jump 5
TL  15 = Jump 6

This is according to MT Referee's Companion, under Technology Levels: 
Space Transportation.  I don't have the book here at work, or I'd get 
the page reference.  Sorry.

In Service,
Jason

============================
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer I
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375

Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:44:43 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Jump Range Limits By TL

Jason Kemp wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
In all actuality, I believe that Jump Range Limits _are_ based on 
Tech Level, according to the following progression:

TL  9 = Jump 1
TL  11 = Jump 2
TL  12 = Jump 3
TL  13 = Jump 4
TL  14 = Jump 5
TL  15 = Jump 6

This is according to MT Referee's Companion, under Technology Levels: 
Space Transportation.  I don't have the book here at work, or I'd get 
the page reference.  Sorry.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
That progression is taken from the drive TL limits in High Guard.
The original CT drive performance limits were a bit more complex.
Drives were assigned a letter code, A to Z. For each letter code,
the maneuver, jump and power plants had a certain cost and tonnage,
regardless of what ship you put them in. There was a table you used,
cross referencing ship tonnage with drive letter to get performance.
For example, a code-A jump drive would give you jump-2 in a 100dtn
hull, but only jump-1 in a 200dtn hull.

The tech level you could build the drives at was based on the letter code,
not the final performance. Thus a code-A jump drive, available at TL9,
could give you jump-2 performance if the ship was small enough.

Just to make things more interesting, High Guard gave you the option
of using the CT drives in your starships. In a game where ships range
upwards of 100,000dtns, the drives used in 5000tn and under starships
(5ktns was the hull size limit in CT) may not have mattered so much.
Still, this does allow a navy to build some small ships that perform
better than their large ones - especially nice when you want to build
some scouts or couriers.

In Trillion Credit Squadron, they provide squadron parameters - guidelines
for jump, maneuver, refueling needs and number of pilots so two players
can take the same budget and make comparable fleets. One of the
parameters calls for jump-6, maneuver-6 at TL15. Under strict High Guard,
such a ship is impossible - there's just no way to fit the computer and
crew spaces (forget about weapons and defenses) in the 2% of hull
space left after drives, bridge and fuel. With book-2 Code-X drives
(in a 1000dtn hull) and code-Z drives (in a 2000dtn hull) you can pull
it off - I even managed to fit a nuclear dampener and some armor
on an agility-1 1500dtn Battlecruiser that could meet this performace
criterion, and for less than a billion credits.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 09:09:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Cook <markc@peak.org>
Subject: Re: UTUP (long)

Jason Kemp <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us> writes:

> Universal Traveller Universe Profile (UTUP) v1.0:
        ...
> 12  You live and/or play somewhere offplanet.  (Cool!  Can I join 
> your game?)

Sure!!  However, you have to provide your own transportation to
and from my house! :^)

        - Mark C.
          Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy
          EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75
          Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR
          NRA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)
          Front Sight First Family member #1

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 mark f. cook * mark cook consulting *  shoestring graphics & printing
 2055 s.w. whiteside dr. * corvallis, or, 97333-1406 * markc@ssgfx.com
 Phone: 541-753-2732      Fax: 541-753-2738       http://www.ssgfx.com
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    > I believe that "decimation" originated with the Roman legions.

    Of course it originated with the Romans! Who else would _need_
    a word that means "kill every tenth person"?  - Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 09:16:39 -0800
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1100

- ------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 23:12:40 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: System Defense spending on Gov 7 worlds

DustyLV769@aol.com wrote:
>
>         I am curious...
>
>         Since we assume that the local defenses are built and paid for by
the local
> government...who takes care of SysDef in cases of balkanized worlds?
Would
> you want to trust some OTHER country w/ the monopoly on the defense
> forces...or would an arms race start, as each nation begins to feel
threatened
> by the expanding naval forces of the other nation??
>
> Dusty

IMHO:

     Best case scenario:

The major powers have formed some kind of international organization, to
which each contributes national forces (e.g., the UN Space Agency at the
beginning of the Interstellar Wars, or Jerry Pournelle's CoDominium).
This may eventually lead to a unified world government, at which point
the UWP code changes.

     Second-best-case scenario:

The various nations contribute to a system defense fund, which provides
for Imperial system defense forces (viewing the Imperium as an "honest
broker").

     Most likely scenario:

The arms race described above, possibly leading to an intraplanetary
war.

Does anybody have any other major scenarios?

- - --
- - ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- - ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

******************
     Scenario Three

The Major powers of the world combine money and hire a mercenary unit to
patrol the system.  Great set-up for a campaign the party of PC's are
members of the Mercenary unit that has been hired to protect this planet
from pirate raiders.  Another thread could be the PC's are members of one
of the Major powers (Armed forces?) and have discovered that the Mercenary
unit hired by the planet are actually working with the pirate raiders.  How
can they stop the Mercenaries and raiders, while avoiding certain death
from more advanced weapons?  Lots of fun to be had by all.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 12:18:08 -0500
From: Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil>
Subject: Re: Small Craft Sensors under High Guard

Steven Hudson wrote:

>   It looks simply like the CT sensor rules are too old to be of much use
> except to gearhead-phobe campaigns (which I might run) and in roughing
> out debates like this one - where at least it's easier to agree on than
> Striker/MT/TNE/T4/DSR/GURPS ground rules...
> 

I think a better term might be "gearhead-challenged" campaign.  I'm not
a phobe, but I'm not a gearhead either.  I'm probably a gearhead
wannabe...  I'd love to understand it!  I just want to know what it can
and can't do, and then my character wants to be able to squeeze a little
more out of the systems....

Cheers,

Greg

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 08:52:55 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: The Kuwait War

At 08:09 AM 11/5/98 -0800, you wrote:

>  As far as the news agencies go, GIGO. I remember the military history
>types around campus having a good laugh back then, as though a 120mm rifle
>sniping off a stationary target at 4000m on a giant billiard table was in
>some way relevant.

Please recall that the first two days of Desert Sabre were fought in a
howling rain/sandstorm that cut visbibility down to less than 200m in
places.  Part of the reason we caught the Iraqis so off-guard was their
disbelief that anyone could operate in those conditions.  M1A1s were
picking off T-72s in prepared fighting positions before the enemy ever knew
they were there.


- --

+------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
+------------------------------------------+
| "or it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' | 
| "Chuck him out, the brute!"              |
| But it's "Saviour of 'is country"        |
| when the guns begin to shoot;"           |
+------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 12:31:08 -0500
From: Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1095

Merrick Burkhardt wrote:

> A BG doesn't actually do it. This raises an interesting problems
> with BGs, actually. The entire radiated output of a ship with a BG
> must be absorbed by the globe and there fore finds its way back into
> the caps. The energy doesn't go away even with a real BG, you have
> to use it in some way that gets rid of it.
> 
> So even a real, ancient BG doesn't stealth you, it just delays the
> emission until you vent it (or blow up :-)
> 
> -Merrick

Good point, but I'd argue that the shunting of all emissions to
capacitors is stealth.  If you can't see me (and unfortunately I can't
see you) I'm stealthed.  If I'm coming in on a running jump, and have
full BG protection upon exiting you won't see me until I drop my
globe....  Somehow they take all that energy and capture it...

Greg

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 13:06:26 -0800
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: aircraft losses

>Most of the F-117's over Baghdad never went below 10,000ft.
>
>One tactic often thought effective by attack aircraft disproved by the war
>in Iraq was the low and fast ground attack. Most of the time standoff
>missiles and LGB's were launched at medium altitide at mid - subsonic
>speeds. Once the area early warning radars were knocked out, most of the
>short range radars that had the balls to go active were ineffective anyway
>and the target never knew the planes were in the area until the big boom.

Most of the allied aircraft that went down where the runway busters.  Planes
that were forced to fly straight level at a fairly low altitude over a
runway to drop
cluster munitions.  First cratering munitions, then anti-personnel mines to
keep 
people from fixing the craters.

These weren't A-10's, so they couldn't handle the level of ground fire.



- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of a free 
state, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be 
infringed.  -- http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 19:21:45 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: e: CANON PROBLEM 3: The Kinunir Question

Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net> wrote:

>I thought everyone knew that all important charecters in Traveller have
>their own personal Ancient Artifact.  Norris has a footlocker with a
>pocket dimension built into it (Sort of like a Bag of Holding in D&D) so
>when he found the Kinunir in the Shionthy Belt he did indeed put it in
>his footlocker.

HE PUT THE KINUNIR IN HIS FOOTLOCKER? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 18:26:51 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Hard Times Fusion Drive in HG terms

HG Fusion Rocket, TL9
- --------------------

Average mass/displacement ton for ships from MT Imperial Encyclopedia entries -

Civilian - 10T/dT, Military 30T/dT

(Averaged and rounded - initially I looked at FSSI but the figures were all
over the place).

Fusion Rocket TL9
TT(Tons Thrust) 195
Vol 1kL
Fuel 0.005 kL/hr
Power Consumed - 0
Power Generated 3.9MW

Covert to 1dT unit (ie x 13.5)
TT = 2632.5
Vol 1dT
Fuel consumed = 0.0675 kL/h
Power Generated = 52.65 MW

Rounding...

TT = 2600
Power = 50MW = 0.2EP

100dT hull
Civilian mass = 1000T
Military mass = 3000T

Accel = (mass Thrust / mass ship)

Civilian --  1dT drive
2600/1000 = 2.6G

Thus military = 0.9G

Convert to % and expand to get drive dT

Thrust	Civilian%	    Military%
1G	0.4	    1.2
2G	0.8	    2.4
etc

nG	n x (0.4)	    n x (1.2)

- ----

Taking dT
- --------

Fuel for 1 G Turn (20min)

= 0.0675/3 = 0.0225 kL/h

Fuel consumed  in 1 turn = 0.0225 x (drive mass) kL

Hence fuel required = (turns of operation wanted) x 0.0225 x (mass of drive
in dT) /13.5

EP output = 0.2 x (mass of drive in dT)

- -------

Hope that was of interest...

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:40:11 -0600
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: CANON PROBLEM 3: The Kinunir Question

Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> wrote:

> It gives a reason why Norris might think that
> the Emperor would give war powers to a junior duke (IMO the dukedoms of
> Mora, Lunion, and Rhylanor are all senior to Regina); there was a
> precedent (So why did Norris' DAD get his war powers?

There's another SPINWARD MARCHES CAMPAIGN reference in the map section
that claims that administration of Jewell subsector is done from Regina
due to Jewell's proximity to the border.  I agree that Mora and Rhylanor
are senior to Regina, and Lunion and Glisten might be.  But the Duke of
Regina is the highest point of nobility adjacent to the Zhodani border,
and is the reasonable leader on the spot who might need that much power 
and might be trusted to wield it.

The Imperial Warrant does have a few limits -- remember, the emperor is
watching, probably closely.  The consequences of abusing a Warrant are
potentially quite extreme.

  -- Steve Bonneville

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 18:41:29 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: May I suggest a small change to the list?

David Lightfinger <lightfinger@home.com> wrote:

>DOUGLAS> However, it is making the administration of my
>mailbox...um...tedious.  I've
>> automated it somewhat, but there is no way, currently, to sort by subject
>> and there are (at least) 4 addresses associated with the TML.

I've only ever seen the one....

>> What I would like to suggest, and since the TML is a majordomo list it is
>> fairly simple (a change of the configuration file would be required, making
>> it automatic), is that a header be added to the subject lines of mail coming
>> from the list.  [TML] seems appropriate, what do the rest of you think?
>
>I second this motion. I have 4 other mailing lists that get sent to my
>account, two of them do not have headers - TML and a small, but
>extremely important list to me. Thus, I have to wade through TML posts
>to find the important posts. It will also make mail filters easier to
>configure for others.

...which I use to filter the message with Eudora 3.1.1

Hence I don't really care either way as my machine sorts it to the
Traveller Digest mailbox. You could all upgrade to Eudora (which is
free......) ;-)

This is another topic that's doing the rounds again .....

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 18:52:08 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: canon

Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil> wrote:

>Was the RCES a survivor of the Virus or were they
>coming out of the mayhem of a collapsed society?

<GRIN>
"The RCESes? They were starfish loving primatives"
</GRIN>

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 18:54:42 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Not Taking the Hit 

"Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net> wrote:

>> My Striker ruleset is in a Striker box (with GDW on the side) under
>> my black box of LBBs. It has vehicle mounted lasers (and even
>> mentions grounded ships doesn't it?) hosing down hundreds of arty
>> rounds per turn.
>
>Nice try again, but I wasn't asking about where your variant ruleset came
>from.  Now when you want to play Traveller, let me know.

_Striker_ is as much a mainstream Traveller (Classic edition) ruleset as
_High Guard_ or _Mayday_ is.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:27:28 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@shell.rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1095

 
> > A BG doesn't actually do it. This raises an interesting problems
> > with BGs, actually. The entire radiated output of a ship with a BG
> > must be absorbed by the globe and there fore finds its way back into
> > the caps. The energy doesn't go away even with a real BG, you have
> > to use it in some way that gets rid of it.
> > 
> Good point, but I'd argue that the shunting of all emissions to
> capacitors is stealth.  If you can't see me (and unfortunately I can't
> see you) I'm stealthed.  If I'm coming in on a running jump, and have
> full BG protection upon exiting you won't see me until I drop my
> globe....  Somehow they take all that energy and capture it...
 
If you have a BG at no flicker, then you are indeed stealthy. A
flickering BG might have shielding advantages, but as I see it is
probably brighter during the times when the BG is off.

Perhaps BG ships need either a special set of radiators, or we need
to let them get rid of some amount of energy into jump space.  They
are really screwed up the more I think about it.

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:43:24 -0600
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: Re: Hard Times Fusion Drive in HG terms

>HG Fusion Rocket, TL9

<snipperoo>

>Hence fuel required = (turns of operation wanted) x 0.0225 x (mass of drive
>in dT)/13.5
>
>EP output = 0.2 x (mass of drive in dT)

>Hope that was of interest...


Yes, but one question.

When you write "mass of drive in dT", do you mean volume in dT? Or do you
intend to use the figure drive mass based on volume dT x 10T (civilian), dT
x 30T (military)?

This is unclear to my small brain.

Ciao,

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:43:22 -0600
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: Re: aircraft losses (off topic)

>Most of the allied aircraft that went down where the runway busters.  Planes
>that were forced to fly straight level at a fairly low altitude over a
>runway to drop
>cluster munitions.  First cratering munitions, then anti-personnel mines to
>keep
>people from fixing the craters.
>
>These weren't A-10's, so they couldn't handle the level of ground fire.


IIRC, they were (mostly) Tornadoes (IMHO, the best ground attack aircraft
in the world). There may have been a Jaguar in there too, although I don't
remember and my resources are at home.

I don't think even A-10's would have handled the level of ground fire those
planes were asked to go through.

Ciao,

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:45:40 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@shell.rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Plasma guns, canon, bureaucracy and High Guard

 
> >Yep. If you are using FFS2, small PAWs (especially circular PAWs) have
> >similar functionality to plasma and fusion guns under HG - short range
> >nutcrackers that are sand-resistant.
> 
> How similar are these circular PAW rules to Merrick's? Using his I made a
> very 'entertaining' BB based on a spherical 500kDT hull with a circular PAW
> wrapped around it. IMO anything like that really changes the PAW/Meson Gun
> balance (unless MGs can be done like this too, of course).
 
They're more or less the same. They needed some tweaking a I recall.
Like the stock FFS laser design rules, some limit on DE is probably
in order. The purpose was to allow bay and barbette PAWs to mimic
our old CT favorites. I wouldn't expect them to take damage very
well, however (trash part of the accelerator and the beam won't stay
in the cyclotron).

I had thought that since the energy requirements went up as laps^2
(from memory, I don't have it here) big ones would rapidly become
hard to power. Of course the simple benifits of adding to the tunnel
length with a couple laps doesn't seem unreasonable.

The trick is to make sure it has a trade off (easier to damage, in
this case).

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 15:02:59 -0500
From: Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1095

Merrick Burkhardt wrote:
Greg wrote:
> > full BG protection upon exiting you won't see me until I drop my
> > globe....  Somehow they take all that energy and capture it...
> 
> If you have a BG at no flicker, then you are indeed stealthy. A
> flickering BG might have shielding advantages, but as I see it is
> probably brighter during the times when the BG is off.
> 
> Perhaps BG ships need either a special set of radiators, or we need
> to let them get rid of some amount of energy into jump space.  They
> are really screwed up the more I think about it.
> 

Or perhaps that is one of the things that confounds the scientific
community of the late 3I in that they can't figure out what happens to
the energy...  "Damned Ancients... Why didn't they leave the Owner's
Manual in the glove box?"

Greg

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 15:40:04 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: aircraft losses (off topic) 

> >Most of the allied aircraft that went down where the runway busters.  Planes
> >that were forced to fly straight level at a fairly low altitude over a
> >runway to drop
> >cluster munitions.  First cratering munitions, then anti-personnel mines to
> >keep
> >people from fixing the craters.
> >
> >These weren't A-10's, so they couldn't handle the level of ground fire.
> 
> 
> IIRC, they were (mostly) Tornadoes (IMHO, the best ground attack aircraft
> in the world). There may have been a Jaguar in there too, although I don't
> remember and my resources are at home.

Seems everybody hates A10's cause they're not 'sexy' enough to fly.  

> I don't think even A-10's would have handled the level of ground fire those
> planes were asked to go through.

Tell that to the A10 drivers that returned to base unharmed with their planes
looking like Swiss cheese.  Sitting inside an armoured bathtub has its
advantages.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1102
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Thursday, November 5 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1103



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: System Defense spending on Gov 7 worlds
Re: aircraft losses 
Re: System Defense spending on Gov 7 worlds
Black Globes
Re: Circular PAWs
Fw: Uncie Hengie ...Roderick
GT: Seeking thoughts on skills...
Re: GT: Seeking thoughts on skills...
Re: aircraft losses (off topic) 
Re: GT: Seeking thoughts on skills...
Re: CANON PROBLEM 3: The Kinunir Question
[none]
Re: Taking The Hit
Re: Phooey on canon! (Was: What canon means to me)
re: Jump Range Limits By TL
Re: Hard Times Fusion Drive in HG terms
Re: Taking The Hit
Jumping from inside an atmosphere is a *BAD* thing

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 15:45:36 EST
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: System Defense spending on Gov 7 worlds

In a message dated 11/4/98 21:59:21 PM Pacific Standard Time,
Sethkimmel@aol.com writes:

<< My opinion is that the Imperium abitrates this (via the subsector Duke) by
 assessing the taxes for the whole planet, and each government has to pay an
 agreed upon portion. >>

	What if not every nation on the world is a member of the Imperium??  There
are many examples of worlds not accepting Imperial citizenship or
control...why not nations as well?

Dusty

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 15:44:50 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: aircraft losses 

> >Most of the F-117's over Baghdad never went below 10,000ft.
> >
> >One tactic often thought effective by attack aircraft disproved by the war
> >in Iraq was the low and fast ground attack. Most of the time standoff
> >missiles and LGB's were launched at medium altitide at mid - subsonic
> >speeds. Once the area early warning radars were knocked out, most of the
> >short range radars that had the balls to go active were ineffective anyway
> >and the target never knew the planes were in the area until the big boom.

The F117's doing attack runs *outside* of Baghdad were WAY under 10,000 feet.  
What do you think took out those Iraqi radars?  And the Iraqis never seen 'em 
coming.

> Most of the allied aircraft that went down where the runway busters.  Planes
> that were forced to fly straight level at a fairly low altitude over a
> runway to drop
> cluster munitions.  First cratering munitions, then anti-personnel mines to
> keep 
> people from fixing the craters.
> 
> These weren't A-10's, so they couldn't handle the level of ground fire.

Nor were there *ANY* F117's shot down.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 16:12:02 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: System Defense spending on Gov 7 worlds

In a message dated 11/5/98 12:47:22 PM Pacific Standard Time,
DustyLV769@aol.com writes:

<< What if not every nation on the world is a member of the Imperium??  There
 are many examples of worlds not accepting Imperial citizenship or
 control...why not nations as well?
  >>

Hmm....maybe the Imperium has a policy of eventually getting the racalcitrant
(in the Imperium's eyes) countries to join up via carrot and/or stick. This
would seem to follow Cleon's Manifest Destiny. I can't see the Imperium
allowing non aligned nations to get  "freebee" system protection, unless the
world/system was vital enough that they had to protect the system with partial
taxes. This would also mean that the non Imperial world would have to have
enormous political juice, or the Imperium would no doubt try to replace the
current government with a more pliable one. All of these games would have to
be done very carefully; the Imperium has to balance between not being seen as
either weak (letting governments stand them off), or overbearing (getting
caught manipulating non Imperial countries)...

this political intrigue makes good adventure nuggets...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 15:31:40 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us>
Subject: Black Globes

As I understand the Black Globe, it is an ancient device that absorbs 
kinetic and electromagnetic energy, and shunts that energy into a 
capacitor.  If the capacitor(s) reach their maximum, then they 
explode, more than likely taking the ship with them.  During 
non-combat or emergency scenarios, it would be assumed that the 
energy from the capacitors would be "bled off" through heat sinks or 
some alternate form of radiator.

The effect on sensors:  ships with BGs would not register while the 
globe was on, although indirect means might be used to locate one.  
(It would be like looking for a "cold" spot instead of a "hot" spot.) 
 When the glode is off, the increase in energy storage would appear 
as an increase in the energy measured from the vessel (since it 
wasn't in the capacitors before the globe was activated), though the 
amount stored may not be significant in the overall energy matrix of 
the vessel.  (Although if it's going to destroy the vessel, it should 
be pretty noticable toward the end, if the globe is off at some point 
near the critical point.)

Assumably, the Ancients dealt with this through shunting the excess 
energy into either jump space (as suggested by others on the list), 
or into their anti-matter power system, somehow prolonging the life 
of their anti-matter power supply.  (I like this one better, but I 
don't know much about the physics of either jump space or anti-matter 
enough to guess which would be better.)

All of the above is based on memory, and I don't have any referential 
evidence to back it up at this time.  My apologies, if I 
misremembered any of the details.  Still, I hope it helps.

In Service,
Jason

============================
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer I
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375

Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 07:50:35
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Circular PAWs

>From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@shell.rt66.com>
>
>I had thought that since the energy requirements went up as laps^2
>(from memory, I don't have it here) big ones would rapidly become
>hard to power. Of course the simple benifits of adding to the tunnel
>length with a couple laps doesn't seem unreasonable.
>
>The trick is to make sure it has a trade off (easier to damage, in
>this case).

The other major advantage of circular PAWs is the fact that their
accumulator is based on lap energy*10.

This means raising the number of laps just slows down the rate of fire -
you can keep the same power input, and keep the unit at the same size.

Of course, output with a CPAW is the square root of the number of laps
times lap energy, and damage is a square-root funtion of the output, so it
goes exponential pretty fast.

Now, CPAWs do have shorter ranges than PAWs, but big PAWs have a
sufficiently obscene range to trade off and smile (you really dont need a
range of more than 5 light-seconds for most applications).

Some day soon, FS is going to come out with a CPAW module designed to fit
into the cargo bay of the Recollet ...

Ian Whichurch

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 16:57:37 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Fw: Uncie Hengie ...Roderick

Here is a repost of the Four Fours SDB from the (overly) fertile mind(s?) of
young Miss Ditzie! I certainly miss her posts, some of the most .... umm..
unh.. interesting ... toys of mass distruction.

Mike Peters, Letterworks@CITnet.com
webpage:"Jump Point" http://users.citnet.com/Letterworks/
"For my part, I travel not to go anywhere, but to go. I travel for travel's
sake. The great affair is to move."
Robert Louis Stevenson

- -----Original Message-----
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Monday, December 29, 1997 6:14 AM
Subject: Uncie Hengie ...


>To : High Energy Solutions Branch
>
>From : Hengabar Spofulam
>
>CC : Insystem Craft Branch ; Power Systems Branch ; Marketing Department
>
>Re : Four Fours SDB
>
>Employees,
>
>It has come to my attention that Famile Spofulam Yards has a very low
>market share in the lucrative Insystem Defense Craft market.
>
>Therefore, I have made a company-wide determination that our next insystem
>craft will fit the following criteria at minimum.
>
>     (1) Four centimeters of Superdense armour.
>     (2) Four gees acceleration.
>     (3) Armament of four hundred megajoules output at forty thousand
>kilometers.
>     (4) Fourty four megacredits maximum price.
>
>I hope to here from you with preliminary design specs now or sooner.
>
>Marketing, come up with a slogan.
>
>Hengabar Spofulam
>
>***************************************************************************
*
>********
>
>To : Uncie Hengie
>
>From : Diiiitttziieeee
>
>Re : Five fours
>
>Uncie,
>
>We couldnt do the five fours.
>
>We managed a seven point five, a four pont eight, a six, and a three
>hunnerd and a twenty-two.
>
>We're sowwwwwy that we wrecked Maaaaaaarketing's nice slogan.
>
>It's a one hunnerd dton sphere, with ten centimeters of Supa-wupa-dense
>armour. It masses eighteen hunnery tons.
>
>It has a thrustie-wustie plate that mushes it at one point eight meters per
>second square-square-squared acceleration, and and and a Heplar engine with
>fuel for two hunnerd and sixty minutes that goes at a maximum-waximum of
>four point one two gees.
>Booooth engines will mush mush mush everything at four point three gees.
>
>The main gunnie-wunnie is a six hunnerd magajoule laser-waser that fits in
>the nosie-wosie as a spiiiinal mount. The laaaser beam has enough
>weeeet-bix to go two hunnerd twenny five thousand kilometer-wometers, and
>enough juice juice juiiiiiice in the battery-watteries to power the
>laser-waser to go zappity zap zap zap every ten seconds for an hour.
>
>An an an it has a twenny thousand kilometer nukie-wukie damper-wamper, an
>an an three sandcasters that chuck big big big clouds of sand - three point
>three seven fiiiiive cubic meters of sandie-wandie per try. The threeeeee
>projectors have ten big cans each, for a tooootal of thirty cans.
>
>Weeeeeeee reckon that between the armour, the nukie damper and the sand
>sand sand saaaaaaaand it should be pwetty well pwotected aginst most
>anything short of a cruiser-wuser-bwuser.
>
>It has Active an Passive sensors and a Laaaaadar, an two laser comms.
>
>The whole thing is powered by lots of battery-watteries, and and and a five
>hunnerd megawatt fusie-wusie plusssss power plant. Weeeeee dont like that
>Mr Zhunatsu, but they were cheeeeeap an small an we had enough surface
>areas for the radiator-wadiators.
>
>The crew of six  is protected-wotected by a threeeeee gee compensator, so
>they shouldnt be tooooo uncomfortable.
>
>An uncie-wunkie, the whoooooole thing costs twenny five point one
megacwedits.
>
>Your loving cousein,
>
>Ditzie
>
>***************************************************************************
*
>***
>
>Fusion plus is an abomination in the sight of God and Man.
>
>You read that right. Twenty five point one megacredits for a SDB mounting a
>600 megajoule laser, ten centimeters of superdense, that can pull four
>point three gees for four hours, and has a nuke damper and three big
>sandcasters.
>
>Hal, these are my anti-pirate Escort Corvettes.
>
>Here are the FFS2 numbers for the FSY Escort Corvette. Everything is TL12.
>
>100 dton sphere : 1400 m3, 605 m2
>
>Stress for 6gs : 0.07 m3(1399.93) ; 1.05 t (1.05) ; MCr 0.01
>
>10 cm Superdense hull (AV200)
>60.5 m3 (1339.43) ; 907.5 t (908.45) ; MCr 0.86 (0.87)
>
>500 MW TL 12 Fusion+ Power Plant
>100 m3 (1239.43) ; 500 m2 (105) ; 200 t (1108.45) ; MCr 1 (1.87)
>
>11 m3 Fusion+ Fuel
>11 m3 (1228.43) ;                  12t (1120.45) ;
>
>4 000 KN Thruster Plates (requires 10 MW)
>10 m3 (1218.43) ; 2 m2 (103)   ; 20 t (1140.45) ;  MCr 2.5 (4.37)
>
>90 000 KN HePLaR (requires 450 MW)
>45 m3 (1173.43) ; 45 m2 (58)  ; 45 t (1185.45) ; MCr 0.45 (4.72)
>
>4 hr 20 min Heplar reaction mass
>530.8 m3 (642.63) ;            ; 37.92 t(1223.37)
>
>Dynamic Control System
>1.4 m3 (641.32) ;              ; 1.4 t (1224.77) ; MCr 1 (5.72)
>
>900 m3 Type 3 life support (all but Heplar tankage)
>7.2 m3 (634.03) ;              ; 7.2 t (1231.97) ; MCr 0.25 (5.97)
>
>3.0 m diameter 600 MJ spinal laser (DV 122 at 225 000 km ;one shot/10
>seconds; Has batteries for one hours operation, otherwise 300 MW at max
ROF)
>372 m3 (262.03) ; 7.07 m2 (51.93) ; 716t (1947.97) ; MCr 3.6 (9.54)
>
>20 kkm Nuclear Damper (has batteries for one hours operation, otherwise 10
MW)
>56.5 m3 (205.52) ; 5 m2 (46.93) ; 63.5 t (2011.47) ; MCr 1.35 (10.89)
>
>3 Sand Projectors (10 cans, each can 3.375 m3 <AV 265>)
>120 m3 (85.52)  ; 30 m2 (16.93) ; 104.1 t (2155.57) ; MCr 0.84 (11.73)
>
>PEMS-13
>1.1 m3 (84.42) ; 1.1 m2 (15.83) ; 1t      (2156.57) ; MCr 5    (16.37)
>
>AEMS-11.5 (2.5 MW required)
>13.75 m3(70.67) ; 3.13 m2 (12.72) ; 25 t  (2181.57) ; MCr 5    (21.37)
>
>Ladar-14 (0.2 MW required)
>0.67 m3(70.00) ; 0.25 m2 (12.22) ; 0.42 t (2181.99) ; MCr 2.5  (23.87)
>
>Twin CM 0.6 Fib Computers (0.032 MW required)
>0.64 m3(69.36) ;                 ; 0.13 t (2182.12) ; MCr 0.25 (24.12)
>
>Twin 1000 AU Laser Communicators
>0.1 m3 (69.26) ; 0.2 m2  (12.02) ; 0.02 t (2182.14) ; MCr 0.36 (24.48)
>
>Standard Airlock (0.001 MW required)
>3 m3 (66.26) ; 2 m2 (10.02) ;      0.2 t (2182.34) ; MCr 0.01  (24.58)
>
>2 bridgestations (Pilot, Sensor Ops)
>28 m3 (38.26) ,             ;      0.4 t (2182.74) ; Mcr 0.1   (24.68)
>
>4 crewstations (Engineer, Sancaster Ops , Damper Ops, Laser Ops)
>28 m3 (10.26) ;             ;      0.8t   (2183.54) ; MCr 0.1  (24.78)
>
>3G Compensation (Crew and Bridgestations only. 0.1 MW required)
>1.2 m3 (9.06) ;             ;      0.02t  (2183.56) ; MCr 0.3  (25.08)
>
>Twin Adequate Seats
>7 m3 (2.06)   ;             ;      0.04t  (2183.60) ; MCr 0.01 (25.09)
>
>
>Ian Whitchurch
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 17:39:54 -0500
From: Andy Slack <AndySlack@compuserve.com>
Subject: GT: Seeking thoughts on skills...

Hi fellas -

I'm toying with GT and there seem to be some
inconsistencies with the skills, especially around
Mechanic/Engineering/Elec Ops.

I am not a heavy GURPS user (at least not yet,
although the GT line may tip me over the edge)
so I was wondering if anyone can tell me...

1. What specialisations are there for these skills?
   There seems to be a different set every place I
   look, maybe that's me not understanding how it
   hangs together.

2. What's the difference between Engineer (J-Drive)
   and Mechanic (J-Drive), apart from one has a
   default and the other doesn't?

   (The scoutship writeup has the crew needing both
   but the Scout template only gives you mechanic,
   I'm assuming this is because they were written
   by different people?)

3. Why do you need Tactics to fly a Free Trader?

Thanx -
Andy

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 17:50:34 -0500
From: Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil>
Subject: Re: GT: Seeking thoughts on skills...

Andy Slack wrote:
> 
> Hi fellas -
> 
> 
> 3. Why do you need Tactics to fly a Free Trader?
> 
> Thanx -
> Andy

Andy, I have no idea about questions 1 and 2, but as for #3?  It's
because of all the Pirates in the Official GURPS Traveller universe! 
[Ducking and running, but not quite fast enough to avoid being burned!]

Greg

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 15:08:18 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: aircraft losses (off topic) 

The 10,000ft flight limit was imposed in order to prevent casulties.
CENTCOM evidently suddenly realized that ground-attack is dangerous, and
that the Iraqis had numerous AAA assets.
- --

Douglas E. Berry
Pawn of the Droyne Conspiracy.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

UTUP: 0304 B-662D37B-5-5-2

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 15:29:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: GT: Seeking thoughts on skills...

Andy Slack writes:
>> 1. What specialisations are there for these skills?
>    There seems to be a different set every place I
>    look, maybe that's me not understanding how it
>    hangs together.

Nah, it's not exactly consistent.  Use whatever breakdowns you prefer to annoy
your players with.  There's a list in Basic, however.
> 
> 2. What's the difference between Engineer (J-Drive)
>    and Mechanic (J-Drive), apart from one has a
>    default and the other doesn't?
Engineer is the skill to _design_ jump drives, mechanic is the skill to repair
them.  GURPS isn't wildly consistent about this distinction, however.
> 
> 3. Why do you need Tactics to fly a Free Trader?

You don't unless you want to fly it in combat.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 11:18:30 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: CANON PROBLEM 3: The Kinunir Question

Dear Folks -

Peter replied:
>The notion that you can just use an Imperial Warrent you happen to find
>and not expect to be considered to be treasonasly usurping the Emperors
>power is dangerously naive.

Powerful argument for labelling the envelopes and/or Warrants. Not a bad
idea.

Alternatively, this could explain what Norris meant in SM when he said
Strephon was still around back then and could burn him if he screwed up
("abusing the Emperor's powers"). This means that the
"labelled-vs-unlabelled Warrant" could come down to "your choice" unless
Messieurs Dougherty or Miller "give us the goss" on the subject.

Hans said:
>It gives a reason why Norris might think that the Emperor would give
>war powers to a junior duke
[snip]
>(So why did Norris' DAD get his war powers? Maybe he was a
>Grand Admiral in his own right?) Anyway, it makes for a nice bit of
>historical continuity.

Thanks for the SM reference, I should have remembered that one (bang!).

Here's a thought on that subject: maybe Strephon trusts the Duke of Regina
more than the others? It could be that he met Norris' father sometime (or
went through the U of Sylea together)? Or maybe the trust is based on the
old family connections noted in the RSB! The RSB says that Arbellatra left
the Duke of Regina - actually, he may have only been a Count at that stage
- - in charge of the Marches when she left to knock a few heads together in
the Imperial Core. Now I think about it, I seem to remember she elevated
him to Duke after becoming Regent. And he was of the Family Aledon...
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 23:46:59 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: [none]

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 00:25:13 GMT
From: jzeitlin@cyburban.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: [WWW][Zine] Freelance Traveller Updated (CORRECTED)

02 Nov 1998

In our last sending of this notice, we omitted the URL for
Freelance Traveller.  Freelance Traveller can be found by
pointing your browser at
http://www.tightbeam.com/FreelanceTraveller, with mirrors at
http://w3.execnet.com/jeffz & http://www.cyburban.com/~jzeitlin.
We apologize for the omission.

Freelance Traveller, The Electronic Fan Supported Traveller
Resource, has been updated.  This update consists of a couple of
minor changes:



A new link to a new Traveller web site - Marc Miller's/FarFuture
Enterprises'! We've also updated a couple of changed URLs.

We inadvertently omitted a credit from one of the pictures on
Chris Cox's Take Ship II page in the Multimedia Gallery. Fixed.
Our apologies to both Chris and Jesse DeGraff.



We expect our next update to be around US Thanksgiving.

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 23:52:23 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Taking The Hit

Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net> wrote:

>One tactic often thought effective by attack aircraft disproved by the war
>in Iraq was the low and fast ground attack.

Inaccurate -

The RAF Tornados flew very low and very fast when using the JP233 to take
out runways. Shame that the government (at the time) had discounted
building a standoff version as not cost effective.

Just because the USAF/USN/US Marines weren't doing it doesn't mean that it
wasn't being done.

You don't really get to understand low and fast until you see a Tornado go
down a valley below you.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:07:20 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Phooey on canon! (Was: What canon means to me)

Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz> wrote:

>I reckon that HG is at least a pretty close second - Ships can now be up to
>200 times bigger than before and have armour. Jump distance is directly
>limited by TL (in the LBBs computer size and drive size are limited by TL,
>and they limit jump range, but TL12 allows you J6, IIRC). >

IIRC the LBBs don't specify the TL you are building at in anyway means or
shape. I always assumed TL15....

>HG introduced
>Thrusters, whereas the LLBs could be read either way. HG also introduced
>agility as a concept and energy weapons PAWs, etc, all of which
>dramatically changed the optimal way to design a ship.

Fair point on Thrusters but it didn't really change the effect in the same
way that TNE did - you weren't fuel limited in the same way. I think that
the key is that the weapons etc are better because Bk2 is a civilian design
system and Bk5 is military. The existance of fusion drives or fusion guns
or PAs didn't change the universe fundamentally from what had gone before -
it opened it up. TNE did by eliminating weapons.

On the same basis that you are arguing you could say that Bk4 etc flawed
Traveller because it introduced weapons beyond lasers and TL8 style
slugthrowers.

Canon is not necessarily bad (I for example have no problem with HePLAR but
do have a problem with Thrusters being ruled out after more than ten years
in the game. T4's co-existance was better). However, changes to the game
like those made eliminating Thrusters change the feel of the game and
exclude chunks of what has gone before. Canon should be added to (by its
nature) and shouldn't suddenly be restricted arbitarily.

Dom

>Actually Striker made a fair mess, too. Before Striker it took a real
>expert to penetrate Combat Armour with a laser.

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:16:30 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Jump Range Limits By TL

Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU> wrote:

>The tech level you could build the drives at was based on the letter code,
>not the final performance. Thus a code-A jump drive, available at TL9,
>could give you jump-2 performance if the ship was small enough.

Tech level is not mentioned in the tables at all with respect to drives. (*)

Hence if it isn't specified you can't really state 'a code-A jump drive,
available at TL9' because 'a code-A jump drive, unavailable at TL9' is
equally valid. HG did not invalidate this.

Dom

(*) unless it was in first edition Bk2 not Starter Edition or 2nd edition Bk2.

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:21:09 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Hard Times Fusion Drive in HG terms

 yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich) wrote:

>>Hence fuel required = (turns of operation wanted) x 0.0225 x (mass of drive
>>in dT)/13.5
>>EP output = 0.2 x (mass of drive in dT)

>When you write "mass of drive in dT", do you mean volume in dT? Or do you
>intend to use the figure drive mass based on volume dT x 10T (civilian), dT
>x 30T (military)?

Sorry - my brain drifted into engineer mode with respect to 'mass' - I
meant volume ie the dT of the drive.

Hence -

Hence fuel required = (turns of operation wanted) x 0.0225 x (vol of drive
in dT)/13.5

EP output = 0.2 x (vol of drive in dT)

If it's of interest, I can take a look at the other drives (eg ion...)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 18:43:59 -0600
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Taking The Hit

>
>Inaccurate -
>
>The RAF Tornados flew very low and very fast when using the JP233 to take
>out runways. Shame that the government (at the time) had discounted
>building a standoff version as not cost effective.
>You don't really get to understand low and fast until you see a Tornado go
>down a valley below you.


I have to agree with you here. Being a red blooded American I am often booed
when I voice my frustration that we would build the f-15E when we could have
probably purchased Tornadoes.
Yeah, both are good planes, but the Tornado gets the job done very well.

TV

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 17:45:50 -0800
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Jumping from inside an atmosphere is a *BAD* thing

Heyo!

There has been a lot of discussion about the 100d limit, including some
discussion on jumps directly from a planet surface, and from inside an
atmosphere.

[shudder]

This is a BAD THING and should only be done in extreme emergency.  Like,
when the primary is going NOVA.  (not about to...it still might not.  You
should wait until the wave front has actually hit the side of the planet and
shows every sign of coming around to where you are - even then you might
have a better chance of surviving if you ride it out.)

OK, ok - there are no hard rules on the subject, other than saying automatic
misjump or giving a really nasty DM, but this is my interpretation...

Assumptions:
1) Lanthanum grids on the outside of the ship.  Canon has a distinctive glow
produced by these grids just prior to initiating a jump and while exiting a
jump.

2) Lots of power needed for a jump - one version of the rules even defines a
'fast plant' to feed the drive, but I think we all agree that the J-Drive
consumes a massive amount of power to (at least) cause a Jump.

3)  That a large percentage of the power required for the jump is actually
dumped on the grid to create the field.

So, what happens when we push a lot of power through a conductor?  To
simulate, I'm going to take a known conductor (I don't happen to have any
Lanthanum laying around) - in this case a tungsten alloy, and, to simulate
space conditions, it will placed in an evacuated glass globe.  Power will be
supplied via conductors that are prepositioned in the metal cap -  the one I
have obtained has a screw-type connector to ensure a stable, secure
connection to my selected test bed.  Ideally, I would conduct this
experiment in 0-G, but my G-plates are not functioning today...

So, I power up my experiment.  Power flows through the filiment, and because
of the resistance and the wire gage, it generates heat and light (is my desk
lamp now going to jump???).

Anyway, let's simulate powering up the grid in an atmosphere, and put a
small hole at the base of the bulb and turn it on.  ...Well, that was a nice
flash!  Not much left of the gri... I mean filiment tho'.

If this is a scenario that you agree with, it also helps explain the cost of
the annual maintenance - replating and restoring the grid.

For the sceptics (and those who can't agree with me when I say the sun rises
in the west ;) another possibility - Again assuming that the power of the
grid is sufficient to cause the metal to generate *lots* of light and heat
(I'm assuming that the grid is well insulated from the ship, and thus does
not cause internal damage) - metal tends to soften when it's hot.  And while
activating the grid well outside a gravity well, or at least in
microgravity, will tend not to affect it, subjecting it to a full gravity
well and causing it to have to support it's own weight (at least on the
underside of the ship) while also making it ...ummmm... supple?  Well, that
may cause permanent distortion of the grid - and may require a shipyard
visit - assuming that the warpage of the J-field is not sufficient to cause
a misjump or a J-space hull breach.

And the final possibility I'd like to offer - Heating up some metals can
cause them to become, I believe the word is promiscuous?  They bond to any
stray molecules that come their way.  Firing up the J-drive in an atmosphere
will allow your grid to come into contact with lots and lots of stray
molecules - and suddenly instead of a lanthanum grid, you have a lanthanum
*alloy* grid.

Now THAT should give an Astrogator grey hair!  :)

douglas


E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller
IMTU tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls
The early bird gets the worm, BUT
   the second mouse gets the cheese!

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1103
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Thursday, November 5 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1104



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: aircraft losses 
Re: The Kuwait War
Re: aircraft losses
Re: aircraft losses (off topic)
Re: Crime & Punishment (not Dostoevsky)
Re: aircraft losses
Re: Crime & Punishment (not Dostoevsky)
Re: aircraft losses
Re: aircraft losses (off topic)
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1103
Re: aircraft losses (drifting back on-topic)
GT: Seeking thoughts on skills...
Re: Maize in the old world
Re: Off topic 
Re: Phooey on canon!
Re: Off topic (re: response; long)
Re: Phooey on canon!
Re: Phooey on canon! (Was: What canon means to me)
Re: Gunnery Crew (was re: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1080) 
Re: CANON PROBLEM 3: The Kinunir Question

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 20:37:14 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: aircraft losses 

At 03:44 PM 11/5/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> >Most of the F-117's over Baghdad never went below 10,000ft.
>> >
>> >One tactic often thought effective by attack aircraft disproved by the war
>> >in Iraq was the low and fast ground attack. Most of the time standoff
>> >missiles and LGB's were launched at medium altitide at mid - subsonic
>> >speeds. Once the area early warning radars were knocked out, most of the
>> >short range radars that had the balls to go active were ineffective anyway
>> >and the target never knew the planes were in the area until the big boom.
>
>The F117's doing attack runs *outside* of Baghdad were WAY under 10,000
feet.  
>What do you think took out those Iraqi radars?  And the Iraqis never seen
'em 
>coming.

AH-1 Apachies and F-4G Weasles took out the radars. First night of the war,
the frontline radars were flooded with TALD packages then hit with HARM
missiles.

Love those anti-radiation missiles.

BTW, I do not recall any F-117's sent to targets anywhere other than
greater Bahgdad

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 20:23:27 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: The Kuwait War

At 08:52 AM 11/5/98 -0800, you wrote:
>At 08:09 AM 11/5/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>>  As far as the news agencies go, GIGO. I remember the military history
>>types around campus having a good laugh back then, as though a 120mm rifle
>>sniping off a stationary target at 4000m on a giant billiard table was in
>>some way relevant.
>
>Please recall that the first two days of Desert Sabre were fought in a
>howling rain/sandstorm that cut visbibility down to less than 200m in
>places.  Part of the reason we caught the Iraqis so off-guard was their
>disbelief that anyone could operate in those conditions.  M1A1s were
>picking off T-72s in prepared fighting positions before the enemy ever knew
>they were there.

Even without the sandstorm, M1A1's main armaments are around 3 miles VS the
T-72's 1 mile. Of course, no match.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 20:26:57 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: aircraft losses

>Most of the allied aircraft that went down where the runway busters.  Planes
>that were forced to fly straight level at a fairly low altitude over a
>runway to drop
>cluster munitions.  First cratering munitions, then anti-personnel mines to
>keep 
>people from fixing the craters.
>
>These weren't A-10's, so they couldn't handle the level of ground fire.
>

British Tornado's mostly were used for the runway busting. A-10's were to
busy scud busting to do the work.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 20:32:13 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: aircraft losses (off topic)

At 01:43 PM 11/5/98 -0600, you wrote:
>>Most of the allied aircraft that went down where the runway busters.  Planes
>>that were forced to fly straight level at a fairly low altitude over a
>>runway to drop
>>cluster munitions.  First cratering munitions, then anti-personnel mines to
>>keep
>>people from fixing the craters.
>>
>>These weren't A-10's, so they couldn't handle the level of ground fire.
>
>
>IIRC, they were (mostly) Tornadoes (IMHO, the best ground attack aircraft
>in the world). There may have been a Jaguar in there too, although I don't
>remember and my resources are at home.
>
>I don't think even A-10's would have handled the level of ground fire those
>planes were asked to go through.
>
Guess you didn't hear about the A-10 that landed with over 100 rounds in
it, or the one that landed with half a starbord wing blown off (the INSIDE
half).

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 11:04:26 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Crime & Punishment (not Dostoevsky)

Jesse LaBranche wrote:

> >> Out here (Las Vegas) some would say that depends on the ethnic background
> of
> >>the perpetrator <sarcastic grin>
>
> >  What, they shoot Yankees there?
>
> Heh. The Nevada desert is full of holes...

 At last guess they said 20000 unclosed mine shafts.

- --
Ave et vale.
Evyn,
Warleader of the Clan MacDude
Solus Stellamilitia Ludus, 1998 Œ

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 09:59:07 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: aircraft losses

This is a complete fiction...well maybe not complete.   Tactics that were
optimized for a very high threat environment were not as appropriate in a
low threat enviroinment.  The losses suffered in low/fast attacks would
have been loved in if they occured against Warsaw Pact forces in Europe.
The losses suffered were the minimal ones likely to be sufferd from that
kind of attack.  The tactics themselves were unneccessary.

13:06 5/11/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>Most of the F-117's over Baghdad never went below 10,000ft.
>>
>>One tactic often thought effective by attack aircraft disproved by the war
>>in Iraq was the low and fast ground attack. Most of the time standoff
>>missiles and LGB's were launched at medium altitide at mid - subsonic
>>speeds. Once the area early warning radars were knocked out, most of the
>>short range radars that had the balls to go active were ineffective anyway
>>and the target never knew the planes were in the area until the big boom.
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 20:11:39 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Crime & Punishment (not Dostoevsky)

Evyn MacDude wrote:
> 
> Jesse LaBranche wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> >
> > Heh. The Nevada desert is full of holes...
> 
>  At last guess they said 20000 unclosed mine shafts.

"Mister President!  We _must not allow_ a MINESHAFT GAP!" >;-)

ObTrav:  Imagine the competition for mineshaft space (or equivalent
underground, geologically-stable space) on a balkanized world with meson
guns....
> 
> --
<<snip sig>>
- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 18:05:43 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: aircraft losses

In mail you write:

>>Most of the F-117's over Baghdad never went below 10,000ft.
>>
>>One tactic often thought effective by attack aircraft disproved by the war
>>in Iraq was the low and fast ground attack. Most of the time standoff
>>missiles and LGB's were launched at medium altitide at mid - subsonic
>>speeds. Once the area early warning radars were knocked out, most of the
>>short range radars that had the balls to go active were ineffective anyway
>>and the target never knew the planes were in the area until the big boom.
>
> Most of the allied aircraft that went down where the runway busters.
> Planes that were forced to fly straight level at a fairly low
> altitude over a runway to drop cluster munitions.  First cratering
> munitions, then anti-personnel mines to keep people from fixing the
> craters.

> These weren't A-10's, so they couldn't handle the level of ground fire.

Sounds like a great job for a cruise missile or for a remote piloted
drone. You crash the thing into the runway at the end of the run.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 18:08:15 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: aircraft losses (off topic)

In mail you write:

> The 10,000ft flight limit was imposed in order to prevent casulties.
> CENTCOM evidently suddenly realized that ground-attack is dangerous, and
> that the Iraqis had numerous AAA assets.

Weapon idea for mercs attacking lower tech enemies:

A package that is either part of a drone aircraft, or lobbed in via
ballistic missile. A chute or balloon deploys at *high* altitude. This
lets the package float down while your aircraft are making an attack.
It fires some sort of guided munition (steerable shell or rocket) at
any AA site that is observed.

It might even be possible to skip the ballon or chute and just use some
sort of MIRV setup. That is, a missile with a *lot* of AA-seeking
submunitions deployed from the bus at high altitude.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 20:29:19 -0600
From: William Barnett-Lewis <wlewis@mailbag.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1103

Ah, but you've never seen _Ground Support_ until you've seen armor chewed into
splinters by an A-10's 30 mike-mike...
 
God curse every air farce brat who dares think that bird's not the most
beautiful plane flying! 

(Too many years as a 19E (M-60 Patton Tanker) are showing...   ! And who once
watched in awe on a range in Germany while a BN sized line of old M-47's
disappeared via Maverics and Cannon from one pass of one A-10. Seriously scary.)

:'P

William



> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 23:52:23 +0000
> From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
> Subject: Re: Taking The Hit
> 
> Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net> wrote:
> 
> >One tactic often thought effective by attack aircraft disproved by the war
> >in Iraq was the low and fast ground attack.
> 
> Inaccurate -
> 
> The RAF Tornados flew very low and very fast when using the JP233 to take
> out runways. Shame that the government (at the time) had discounted
> building a standoff version as not cost effective.
> 
> Just because the USAF/USN/US Marines weren't doing it doesn't mean that it
> wasn't being done.
> 
> You don't really get to understand low and fast until you see a Tornado go
> down a valley below you.
> 
> Dom
> 
> - ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
> "Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
> that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
> You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
> 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
> MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/
> 
> ------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 20:37:59 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: aircraft losses (drifting back on-topic)

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> > The 10,000ft flight limit was imposed in order to prevent casulties.
> > CENTCOM evidently suddenly realized that ground-attack is dangerous, and
> > that the Iraqis had numerous AAA assets.
> 
> Weapon idea for mercs attacking lower tech enemies:
> 
> A package that is either part of a drone aircraft, or lobbed in via
> ballistic missile. A chute or balloon deploys at *high* altitude. This
> lets the package float down while your aircraft are making an attack.
> It fires some sort of guided munition (steerable shell or rocket) at
> any AA site that is observed.
> 
Sounds similar in principle, if not in execution, to the TACIT RAINBOW
project I read about in *unclassified* sources.  A loitering
anti-radiation missile.  _Deeply_ unpleasant!

Even better (from the attacker's point of view) would be a loitering
missile, carrying a deep-penetration warhead, with a seeker head
designed to pick up stray meson emissions from deep meson sites....

<<snip>>
- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 18:45:46 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: GT: Seeking thoughts on skills...

>Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 17:39:54 -0500
>From: Andy Slack <AndySlack@compuserve.com>

>I'm toying with GT and there seem to be some
>inconsistencies with the skills, especially around
>Mechanic/Engineering/Elec Ops.

>1. What specialisations are there for these skills?
>   There seems to be a different set every place I
>   look, maybe that's me not understanding how it
>   hangs together.

Neither skills or required specializations are a closed list.
The books have the ones that people saw the need for, but a
GM is free to add any they want.

I did think it would have been nice to have a list of all the ones that
a player needs to worry about in the GT setting.  What you can
do is look at all the ones in Basic and then add in any that don't
see the list as covering.

(There maybe a comprehensive list of the ones that have been
decided so far, since Basic was written, someplace.  I'll look.)

>2. What's the difference between Engineer (J-Drive)
>   and Mechanic (J-Drive), apart from one has a
>   default and the other doesn't?

Mechanics fix them.  Engineers design/build them.

>3. Why do you need Tactics to fly a Free Trader?

You don't.  It may appear in some template on the premise that
it would be nice to be able to have some idea what to do if someone
attacks or threatens you.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 22:32:12 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Maize in the old world

"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net> writes:
>Maize, even the varities available a thousand years ago, would have
>improved crop yields a *lot*, but only with a couple of big ifs.  
>
>IF growth of maize by farmers and its consuption became widespread,
>and that's no sure thing.  Farmers are notoriously conservative when
>it comes to crop choices and it's unlikely they would have rushed to
>plant this strange new plant that was so different from what they
>were used to.  Even if the farmers did plant corn, would they..or
>villagers..be interested in eating something that looked, cooked and
>tasted so different.  

Actually, medieval farmers were quite innovative. Look at the husbandry
manuals written during the middle ages - you keep finding phrases that
basically say "try it and you'll see that I'm right". Ploughing
techniques, fertilizers, crops...

Farming was _the_ industry during that period. Your average knight
probably knew as much about farming as he did about fighting (although he
had peasants to do the gruntwork and a steward to supervise, he was still
expected to know what was going on).

I could dig out references this weekend if you like, but not until the
weekend...

>
>IF the climate in Britain during that period was warm and wet enough
>for maize to grow and produce good yeilds.  Maybe I'm wrong, but
>wasn't the climate somewhat colder in those days?  Again I could be
>wrong, but corn isn't really a cold climate crop is it?

They grew grapes in southern Britain. Is that warm enough?

>
>Of course, IF it was accepted and could produce reasonable yeilds
>then the growth of maize might have freed up a lot of labor for
>other purposes.  Just what purposes those would have been and what
>effects it would have had on culture I wont' hazard to guess.

Precisely the change that makes an interesting alternate history. 
Possibly an earlier Rennaissance or Industrial Revolution? They had a lot
of technology waiting to 'explode' - with more manpower something might
have happened. Alternately, that's a lot of men who can be full-time
soldiers. Imagine medieval conscript armies.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 22:40:49 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Off topic 

"Wayne Ewart" <wewart@home.com> writes:
>But the US was settled by sending out the settlers first then the law (as
>show by US old west lore). Canada sent the law out first then sent
>settlers
>(Canadian lore of the NWMP{now known as RCMP})

The difference goes back further than that.

The USA was founded on the principle of "life, liberty and the pursuit of
happiness"(1).

Canada was founded on "peace, order, and good government".

That philosophical difference has shaped both countries.  Also remember
that for years the Loyalists were extremely influential in Canadian
politics. The stories of what happened to some of them after the rebellion
are chilling, and explain why they emphasized different values. 


(1) I've always liked the cartoon that has Ben Franklin writing "pursuit
of women" and being persuaded that "happiness" sounded classier :-)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 20:02:14 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Phooey on canon!

shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson) writes:
>>Hm, Roger is sitting on the DGP stuff, but Marc has been remarkably
>>generous in giving permission for people to xerox out-of-print material
>                                              ^^^
>  Be careful - they might sue!
>
Hm? I was referring to stuff that Marc had the copyright for, such as the
GDW material. He requires that you include his copyright notice and the
phrase "used with permission", just like GDW did when they gave permission
to photocopy out-of-print sourcebooks.

Mind you, I'm not advocating wholesale copying here. Simple courtesy (let
alone the law) requires that anyone wanting to do this ask Marc for
permission first.  I'm just pointing out that he's a reasonable chap.


>
>...
>>Subject: Canon: a way to agree about disagreeing?
>>
>>Possibly we could use a labelling convention to solve this one:
>
>7) Canon has two, not three "n"'s, unless you're referring to a 
>broadside of naval twelve-pounders or similar?

That depends. Some days it seems like we're using cannon to debate canon,
so to speak :-)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 19:55:11 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Off topic (re: response; long)

Sethkimmel@aol.com writes:
>Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca writes:
>
><< ObTrav: I think this can relate to starship armament. Possibly
>Imperials
> regard arms on merchants the same way most Americans regard handguns: as
>a
> right and necessary protection. Sure, the IN could stamp out piracy if
>all
> ships were disarmed, but that would be as unthinkable as disarming all
> Americans. Thoughts?
> 
> 
>  >>
>To start with, I think that the carrying of weapons is cultural.
[very succinct summary of cultural factors snipped]
>
>	These opposing mindsets make for interesting observations by each side.
>As a
>firearm bearing American; I find it repulsive and very dangerous to live
>in a
>country where the government has a monopoly on violence. Of course a
>European,
>Japanese, Canadian, or Australian no doubt thinks that I am a paranoid,
>homocidal maniac. These widely differing viewpoints make compromise or
>even
>civil debate very difficult (see the US debate on firearms control. Most
>people gravitate to one pole or the other and both demonize the other
>side and
>COMBINE to ridicule anyone tries to offer a workable compromise).

Without igniting a gun control debate (something I'd like to avoid, as I
fall firmly in the "compromise" camp and have no desire to be attacked
from two sides), could we agree that the arming of civilian starships is
as much a cultural as a military phenomenon? 

After all, if _all_ starship weapons are illegal then finding pirates
becomes much easier, as they must hide their weapons, turret fittings,
fire control systems...

Considering two Traveller human cultures:

Zhodani: see no need for armed civilians, because the very existence of
armament means a deviant who gets a visit from the Thought Police -
possession of armament is thus tatamount to declaring your intent to pirate

Imperials: don't see why anyone would want to disarm a starship, because
space is dangerous (frontier cultural leftover from the Consolidation Wars)

Viewed this way, the right to arm a starship, while not necessarily
formally declared, is taken as a given by the Imperial culture. Even
owners who wouldn't actually arm a ship would want one with hardpoints, to
demonstrate that they _could_ if they wanted to. The level of pirate
activity (whatever it is) is accepted as "the way things are" and whether
or not eliminating armamnets would help is not seriously considered by
anyone important*.

*For one thing, once you have large quantities of arms out there,
de-arming a population is tricky unless you can provide very good
security, as the arms _will_ be needed for protection by the honest
citizens.


PS. I don't think you're a homicidal maniac, but I don't feel my
government has a monopoly on violence either. I'm far _more_ worried about
Cretien signing the MAI than I am about him sending in the tanks - but
that's a separate debate.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 20:21:00 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Phooey on canon!

"Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net> writes:
>It's an environment in which, according to canon very few types of
>adventures can be created. The universe is tailored to mercenary
>adventures
>and ill-suited to too much else. The Imperium can never change (as its
>history past and future is broadly mapped out), so any sort of political
>intrigue is nigh unto useless. The Traveller setting, like the Third
>Imperium, is bounded by closed borders.

Oddly enough, I've run virtually every adventure type _except_ mercenary
adventures. 

- - tramp trader
- - merchant prince
- - trade pioneer
- - scouting unknown systems
- - recontact
- - first contact
- - espionage
- - crime spree
- - rock band tour
- - subsector-level diplomacy

While never adhering perfectly to canon, I stuck pretty close. Admittedly
the diplomatic campaign drifted away from official events, but that would
happen in any universe that _had_ official events.

If things aren't mapped out, then those of us with little free time have
to spend more time working on details (and less time writing Traveller
software, designing ships, and so forth).

Mind you, I really dislike the "lets create background without adventures"
school of Traveller writing. Remember the types who would roll up whole
sectors by hand, but couldn't/didn't write any descriptions beyond a name?
This is pointless detail. 

So what's good detail?

Check out one of the world articles from MegaTraveller Journal. A really
detailed system/mainworld, with a complete adventure set on the world and
scads of adventure seeds. Now THAT'S the way to usefully expand Traveller
canon.

Check out any of the numerous ship design archives. Piles of ships,
designed using standard rules, ready to drop into anyone's campaign.
Again, useful canon. (Well, canon in the sense that as long as a ship is
designed according to canon rules the ship itself is a canon design.)

No one's stopping you from writing another universe, that incorporates
part of the Traveller background. Hell, I'd like to see Eris' universe
appear someday (possibly as a Pyramid article hint hint hint). There's no
reason we can't have many Traveller universe, as long as we keep clear
whoch one we're discussing.

Hm. The Paratime Theory of Traveller, anyone?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 20:39:41 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Phooey on canon! (Was: What canon means to me)

"Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net> writes:
>
>Given that the list membership collectively has multiple
>>copies of everything ever published, I'd say everything _is_ available.
>
>Where to start on getting the info? Does one write, hoping to not step on
>anyone's  toes, and then seek approval? Or should someone get all
>Traveller
>canon materials first and then write?

Write to Marc (or whoever the copyright holder is) and ask for permission,
then post a request here. I'm certain you'll find someone willig to make
copies for you, either for free or at cost.  (I'll do a few pages for
free, but if you want all of the MegaTraveller Imperial Encycopedia you'll
have to pay my Kinko bill and postage.)

>
>>On the other hand, who wants to have a campaign of 20 years overturned
>>because a writer decided to change everything? Especially as there's so
>>much virgin territory out there...
>
>With all honesty, I've found very little virgin territory. Most places
>already have a history, some more detailed than others.

There are (or were) some areas left basically untouched for referees. Mind
you, this means that there will _never_ be canon material there, so in one
sense it's the same as deciding to ignore canon in a region...

>
>>In your Traveller universe, sure. My personal universe doesn't follow
>>Traveller canon either. But when I write for publication I stick to
>canon,
>>so that other referees can use my material without change.
>
>If many people play with certain variations anyway, then everything still
>has to be tinkered with in order for them to use something, canon or not.

True. It's just that knowing what canon is means that you already know the
tinkering. Think of "canon" as a common language.

>
>>Now, an easy way around this is for the writer to explicitly identify any
>>varient rules/background used.
>
>TNE's "Fire, Fusion and Steel" was a step in that direction. Despite its
>flaws, it was a wonderful attempt. In reality it was a return to the
>Traveller of old, before it was tied to a rigid and structured background.

Yes, one reason I really liked it.

>
>>Remember that you are free to do anything you like in your own game, as
>>are we all. However, every change to a common background means more work
>>for everyone using that background, so you should see why some people are
>>complaining.
>
>It seems like everyone already has one or more "variants" running at any
>given point. It could be argued that's the way already.

You're probably right. I'm just arguing for a common language. 

I kud rite fonetikalee and u kud undirstand mee, but it's a lot less work
for you if I follow the generally accepted rules of English.  It's the
same thing for canon.

Once again, I'll reiterate that I LIKE hearing about variants. I'd just
like to have all variants clearly labelled as such. I'd also like all
"official" material to be self-consistent.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 19:31:51 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Gunnery Crew (was re: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1080) 

>What are some of the ways that your PCs have found to pass the time in
>jumpspace?

I promised not to ask, if they promised to do it where the passengers
couldn't see :-)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 18:15:03 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: CANON PROBLEM 3: The Kinunir Question

SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> wrote

> Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net> wrote:
> 
> >I thought everyone knew that all important charecters in Traveller 
> >have their own personal Ancient Artifact.  Norris has a footlocker 
> >with a pocket dimension built into it (Sort of like a Bag of Holding 
> >in D&D) so when he found the Kinunir in the Shionthy Belt he did 
> >indeed put it in his footlocker.

> HE PUT THE KINUNIR IN HIS FOOTLOCKER? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well I was just responding to a previous post in that spirit.

Yes he did and it is a good thing that the Kinunir did not have its
Black Globe turned on at the time or the energy drain might have cased
problems for the pocket dimension in the footlocker.  In case you are
wondering how the Kinunir fir into the mouth of the footlocker it is
obvious that the Ancient footlocker can shrink things so they fit
inside. :)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1104
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Traveller-digest      Friday, November 6 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 1105



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Medicine in Traveller 4 : Drugs, Poisons and Disease (long)'
Long range fire
Re: Jump Range Limits By TL
Re: Medicine in Traveller 4 : Drugs, Poisons and Disease (long)'
Re: aircraft losses (off topic)
"Gas-Giant Gang?"
re: Jump Range Limits By TL
Re: aircraft losses (off topic)
Re: System Defense spending on Gov 7 worlds
Dr. Strangelove
Re: Off topic 
Re: Phooey on canon!
Re: Phooey on canon!
Re: Phooey on canon! (Was: What canon means to me)
Re: Small Craft Sensors under High Guard
Re: aircraft losses (off topic)
Re: "Gas-Giant Gang?"
What are drop tanks?
New Poster and GURPS: Traveller
Re: What are drop tanks?
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1104

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 18:17:15 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Medicine in Traveller 4 : Drugs, Poisons and Disease (long)'

In mail you write:

> At 08:46 4/11/98 +1100, Robert O'Connor wrote:
>
>>Biological warfare agents are usually bacterial or viral, optimised
>>for infectivity (respiratory droplets), infectivity (very high) and
>>severity (high lethality).
>
> IIRC there has been a fair bit of research into diseases that cause very
> severe fevers, etc but have a very low death rate for use as incapacitants.

There are also several chemical agents developed for riot control that
may be of interest.

An agent that lowers blood pressure. The effect is that you feel
light-headed and, if you don't sit down, you eventually pass out. And
after a while, the folks sitting down have to lie down or pass out. 
From then until it starts to wear off, you have to lie flat on your
back or pass out. And if you get overly excited, you pass out. 

An agent that affects the voluntary muscles. It works its way up the
spinal cord. So first your feet quit working (it's hard to balance when
your toes don't work). Next the ankles go, forcing a sort of squat.
Then you have to sit as the lower legs quit working. Then the trunk,
and arms go. Finally, you are again lying down, and unable to do
anything except lay there and maybe talk. 

Then we get to agents that don't do anything to people, but change the
environment. Smoke is the classic example. It denies visibility. 

"Liquid banana peel" is only of use on hard surfaced areas, but in
those, it makes walking *impossible* unless your footgear has been
treated with the neutralizing agent. It also occurs to me that booby
traps that spray this on a soldier will make life very difficult. He
wouldn't be able to *hold* his weapons. Firing a frictionless rifle
would be a pain, and don't even *think* about grenades!

Then there's the anti-riot "foam". This is essentially a huge mass of
something like soapsuds. Non-toxic, non-staining, but even IR can't see
thru it. And it absorbs sounds. Serious disorientation results, because
visibility drops to about an *inch*. It won't stop projectile weapons,
but it will stop lasers and at least blunt plasma weapon bursts.

I wonder if it'd be possible to lace the foam with some "conductive"
material. That would make it radio and radar opaque. And make it a
*major* obstacle.

It'd be harder to lay than smoke, but a lot more persistent. And you'd
have no idea *what* was inside. Lousy terrain, buttoned up AFVs,
companies of troops in battle dress. 

And the radar opaque type would confuse the hell out of terrain
following missiles. You'd effectively have changed the landscape,
making self-guided cruise missiles useless.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com	<--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com	<--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 17:51:00 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Long range fire

someone asked about long range fire in traveller. The question is not how
accurately can we aim the weapons, buit can we predict where the target
will be when that packet of energy arrives.

Assuming some significant time lag, and dozens of m/sec, firing solutions
can get interesting to figure.

Required shots to assure 1 hit: (Pi * ( (Tls + Tlw) * A)^2) / Acs
assumes continuous beams.
Tls = Time Lag (one way) in seconds, of sensor system
Tlw = time lag (one way) for weapon system.
A = mps accelleration maximum
Acs = Area, cross-sectional, in square meters (How much area, in m2, the
shillouette has, or rougly 1/6 the Surface Area) [Acs also has an upper
limit of longest dimension squared...]

Basically, a target's potential deviation from a known vector can always be
plotted as a ball centered on the end of said vector, given a fixed unit
time-frame. Looking at a ball, you get a circle as it's "2d" image, and all
unguided direct fire can be handled as a matter of time-delayed 2d
accuracy, assuming no significant gavitational interactions. If you can put
one simultaneous shot per unit of shillouette area within the
target-possibiliity circle, in an even grid, you assure at least 1 of those
beams will intersect with the shillouette. Actually, for slop factor, I'd
round up and add 10% to the theoretical formula.

with even a 1/10 LS lag, the circle for 1G (assuming the 10m/s/s Traveller
G) is  2m radius. at 6G, it's a 12m radius circle. Add detection, using
active, and you get a PVD (possible vector deflection) of 50% more.

Taking a 1G Type A, at .1LS, it will be within a 3mradius of the vector
postulated at time of firing, assuming no lags for firing (I'd add 1/10
second myself), thus upping the error to a 4m radius. You can assure a hit
with a single weapon, but you will probably NOT be able to assure a hit on
a particular feature of the hull. Your circle using pi~= 3.14 is roughly
28m^2, over a rough Acs of several dozens of m^2...

Lets take the range to 1/2 LS, using passives only:
10m per G rating of radius! at this range, you'll have roughly 314m^2 of
Acs to cover... fighters and missiles (incoming missile Acs = 1-2 m^2,
fighters probably about 9-20).

Shooting at an incoming 15G heplar missile with an Acs of 2m^2 fired from .1LS
	shots required 	= (3.14 * (2 * .1 * 150)^2) / 2
			= (3.14 * (2 * 15)^2)/2
			= (3.14 * 30^2)/2
			= (3.14 * 900)/2
			= 2826/2
			= 1413
	with a time duration of 0.2 seconds for first saturation.
you can iteratively reduce the curve for each firing cylcle.

to find chance of hitting the target one or more times (assuming 100%
accuracy of putting the shots where you  want them)

	1-(( (Sr-Wf)/ Sr)^Tf)
where
	Sr = Shots required to saturate
	Wf = weapons actually fired during a saturation.
	Tf = total fires = duration of saturation/time from fire to
		refire of weapon.
so let us assume 20 mounts firing to saturate for 5 seconds against that
missile above, and use a 1 per second firing rate.
	POH 	= 1-(((1413-20)/1413)^5)
		= 1-((1393/1413)^5)
		= 1-(0.98584571833^5)
		= 1-0.93120387146
		= .06879612854
	or roughly 6.8 percent Probability of hit... you can figure that
this will actually be a lower limt, and yes, I know that the inbound
missile actually needs an iterative process accounting for decreasing
range, but I can't write that kind of math in a reasonable message. Why
will it be the lower limit of  chance of hit at range?

	unless you KNOW the target MUST accellerate in a particular
direction without choice, it is POSSIBLE that the target could be anywhere
within the accelleration limit. The reality is that most of the time, a
radius of 1/3 the formulaic one above will be sufficient in any long-term
situations.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><Mailto:aramis@gci.net>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 16:10:52 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Jump Range Limits By TL

At 09:47 5/11/98 -0600, Jason Kemp wrote:

>In all actuality, I believe that Jump Range Limits _are_ based on 
>Tech Level, according to the following progression:
>
>TL  9 = Jump 1
>TL  11 = Jump 2
>TL  12 = Jump 3
>TL  13 = Jump 4
>TL  14 = Jump 5
>TL  15 = Jump 6
>
>This is according to MT Referee's Companion, under Technology Levels: 
>Space Transportation.  I don't have the book here at work, or I'd get 
>the page reference.  Sorry.

They are now, but in the LBBs TL limits computer and drive size, not jump
range. Jump range is limited by the mark of your computer and the size of
your drive compared to the size of your ship on a table (which isn't
precisely linear, BTW). The computer jump limit gives us the following TL
limits:

TL  Computer
5   1
6   1 bis
7   2   
8   2 bis
9   3 
10  4 
11  5 
12  6  
13  7 

The chart also tells us that Jump Drives first become avialible at TL9, and
the books also tell us that J6 is the biggest range we can have. This gives
us the following TL to Jump table:

TL  Jump
9   3
10  4
11  5
12+ 6

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 16:39:39 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Medicine in Traveller 4 : Drugs, Poisons and Disease (long)'

At 18:17 5/11/98 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:

>There are also several chemical agents developed for riot control that
>may be of interest.
>
>An agent that lowers blood pressure. The effect is that you feel
>light-headed and, if you don't sit down, you eventually pass out. And
>after a while, the folks sitting down have to lie down or pass out. 
>>From then until it starts to wear off, you have to lie flat on your
>back or pass out. And if you get overly excited, you pass out. 

I think you'd want to be working for someone who didn't into civil rights
much before you used this one. If someone with already low BP or a weak
heart got hit they could die, and not everyone in a riot is always a rioter.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 14:48:24 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: aircraft losses (off topic)

Dear Folks -

Leonard Erickson wrote:
>Weapon idea for mercs attacking lower tech enemies:

This idea has been used in Traveller (well, at least in TNE terms ;-) in
_Smash and Grab_! I think it was the final scenario, where the PCs are sent
into a hot DZ to remove the nukes (!) from some planetary defence missiles.
They also drop missiles that hang on parachutes - if the mission commander
spots bad guys about to fire at the meteoric assault troops, he calls in
the missile to take them out.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 22:25:48 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: "Gas-Giant Gang?"

I was getting ready to respond to a post about subsidized merchants. 
In particular, the poster had asked something about anti-trust
violations.  As I was about to type that "the Imperium doesn't give a
flying **** about anti-trust" (Cleon I's Restoration being _based_ on a
technological monopoly), it occurred to me that there must be an
interstellar equivalent to the "Mile-High Club."  (I trust that the
connection is clear to most posters.)  Since ships spend a week or so in
jumpspace per jump, I didn't think that "Jumpspace Jazzer" would be
appropriate.  I then figured that your average starship spends maybe a
couple of hours per jump skimming fuel from a gas giant, and that the
view might be, shall we say, _inspirational_.  Thus, I offer the slang
term "Gas-Giant Gang" as a Traveller equivalent to the "Mile-High Club."

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 21:27:09 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: re: Jump Range Limits By TL

...
>Tech level is not mentioned in the tables at all with respect to drives. (*)

  I've got it in B:3 (2ed), p. 15; TL 9 is A-D, 10 is E-H, ... 14 is R-U,
and TL 15 is "all drives". Of no use once B:5 comes out, really.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 22:40:40 -0600
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: Re: aircraft losses (off topic)

>>I don't think even A-10's would have handled the level of ground fire
those
>>planes were asked to go through.
>>
>Guess you didn't hear about the A-10 that landed with over 100 rounds in
>it, or the one that landed with half a starbord wing blown off (the INSIDE
>half).


Don't get me wrong folks, I love the A-10. I've seen the photos and vids of
shot up A-10s, and they are definitely tough. They simply didn't have to
make those harrowing airfield runs that Tornado pilots got stuck with. With
a combat speed of only about 700 kph, they weren't suited for it. Even an
A-10 has limits -- they *can* get shot up enough to go down. Otherwise all
ground attack aircraft would be A-10s! :-)

Hmm. This brings to my mind once again the question of ground attack
aircraft in the Traveller setting (i.e., those pesky grav tanks). I am
surprised that none of the grav tanks I have ever seen depicted have pop-up
weapon systems. I would think that a logical addition to a grav tank would
be an extendable tower for sensors and/or weapons systems.

One would think also that you would make an grav attack aircraft narrow
head-on, not unlike a AH-64 Apache or AH-1 HueyCobra without the main rotor.
Wings aren't an issue, except as weapons pylons. You could run a main
armament down the center of the vehicle (a spinal mount, like the GAU-8 on
the Thunderbolt II).

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 21:47:58 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: System Defense spending on Gov 7 worlds

...
>  Now, picture the 2300 AD background, a replace "Kafer" with "pirate";
>"Back off you SouthWestern Pact swine! We responded to that merchants call
for help _first_, and I don't _care_ if your shattered hulk is on a better
>intercept vector!"  :>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Isn't that every pirate's dream - to have not one navy attempting to turn
>you and your crew into glory points, but two (or more) all at once!
>
>Maybe you'd get lucky and they'd get so interested in which of them
>got to nail you that they'd wind up shooting at each other instead...<G>

  Which is almost exactly how the 2300 AD scenario "Lone Wolf" can play
given the various players victory conditions - it's from a Challenge
(around #40?) and is up on a 2300 AD site somewhere. Fantastic work.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 21:48:10 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Dr. Strangelove

...
>"Mister President!  We _must not allow_ a MINESHAFT GAP!" >;-)

  Argh - I just found this is scheduled to play on campus in a couple
weeks, double-billed with the short (2.5h) version of Das Boot. That
should be a cool evening.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 21:48:22 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Off topic 

...
>The USA was founded on the principle of "life, liberty and the pursuit of
>happiness"(1).
>
>Canada was founded on "peace, order, and good government".

  Gee, and I thought it was the Brits' mistaken belief that removing
the French from BNA would make the southern colonies _easier_ to deal
with. Oops?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 21:48:28 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Phooey on canon!

...
>>>generous in giving permission for people to xerox out-of-print material
>>                                              ^^^
>>  Be careful - they might sue!
...
>permission first.  I'm just pointing out that he's a reasonable chap.

  Nice attempt at irony, but The Document Company (?) may not be amused :)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 23:53:46 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Phooey on canon!

Rob Prior writes:

>Oddly enough, I've run virtually every adventure type _except_ mercenary
>adventures.
>
>- tramp trader
>- merchant prince
>- trade pioneer
>- scouting unknown systems
>- recontact
>- first contact
>- espionage
>- crime spree
>- rock band tour
>- subsector-level diplomacy


Some of these seem extremely difficult while staying within canon. Others,
such as "crime spree" and "espionage" I would tend to lump in with mercenary
adventures. Not just trying to be contrary, I was kind of taking a broad
view of the term "mercenary". I digress though.

My earliest experiences with Traveller were the "Traveller Book" (which
included "Shadows") and "Adventure 1: The Kinunir" when I was very young. It
seemed, at that time, the entire universe was open for exploration with
Ancient (and ancient) ruins on every other planet and sweeping frontiers in
need of gruff pioneers...

Reading "The Kinunir" was my first experience with Traveller, and I haven't
quite gotten the same "unlimited universe" feel ever since.

>While never adhering perfectly to canon, I stuck pretty close. Admittedly
>the diplomatic campaign drifted away from official events, but that would
>happen in any universe that _had_ official events.


I'm not sure I made myself clear though. I don't have a problem with canon,
I have a problem with every single thing needing to be mapped out, explained
and codified. A well thought out universe with sector and subsector in the
Imperium detailed basically ends up with the same problem as no game
universe at all: You still have to do a good deal of work to collect things
that other people have written. A science-fiction game with outdated science
requires a good deal of work for those players and GMs who have newer sci-fi
roots.

I'd rather see exciting adventures, even if the inclusion of a spiffy spazzo
ray seems to invalidate a paragraph in an old DGP publication that I've
never seen anyway (and most of the people buying the adventure haven't seen
and most likely will never see).

>If things aren't mapped out, then those of us with little free time have
>to spend more time working on details (and less time writing Traveller
>software, designing ships, and so forth).


There's a level of canon that works, and then there's a level that becomes
stifling.

>Mind you, I really dislike the "lets create background without adventures"
>school of Traveller writing. Remember the types who would roll up whole
>sectors by hand, but couldn't/didn't write any descriptions beyond a name?
>This is pointless detail.


Yes. I agree completely here.

>So what's good detail?
>
>Check out one of the world articles from MegaTraveller Journal. A really
>detailed system/mainworld, with a complete adventure set on the world and
>scads of adventure seeds. Now THAT'S the way to usefully expand Traveller
>canon.


I'd love to. MTJ was the DGP magazine, correct? If so, it's unlikely I'll
ever come across it.

>Check out any of the numerous ship design archives. Piles of ships,
>designed using standard rules, ready to drop into anyone's campaign.
>Again, useful canon. (Well, canon in the sense that as long as a ship is
>designed according to canon rules the ship itself is a canon design.)


This type of deal is fine. I have no problem with this form of "canon".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:02:20 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Phooey on canon! (Was: What canon means to me)

>There are (or were) some areas left basically untouched for referees. Mind
>you, this means that there will _never_ be canon material there, so in one
>sense it's the same as deciding to ignore canon in a region...


But where? I set up my GMing stakes in the Daibei sector, since there was
little more than some odd library entries here and there as far as I could
find. Still, there was future history and some other canon stuff
encroaching.

>True. It's just that knowing what canon is means that you already know the
>tinkering. Think of "canon" as a common language.


My final thought in the message is this:

Even dictionaries get updated from time to time as new concepts come into
the language. :-)

Languages change.

>You're probably right. I'm just arguing for a common language.
>
>I kud rite fonetikalee and u kud undirstand mee, but it's a lot less work
>for you if I follow the generally accepted rules of English.  It's the
>same thing for canon.


I'm not arguing that canon should be destroyed utterly and entirely, I'd
just like to see some modern revisions. Much like those arguing for strict
canon, I don't have tons of free time. If it's a choice between having to
spend long weeks trying to fit modern sci-fi concepts into Traveller, or
have my players think that Traveller is stupid because of the technology
that never crawled out of 1968... I'll just end up not playing.

>Once again, I'll reiterate that I LIKE hearing about variants. I'd just
>like to have all variants clearly labelled as such. I'd also like all
>"official" material to be self-consistent.


If that's the case, then maybe I'll see what I can dig up from my campaign
notes :-)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 22:45:07 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Small Craft Sensors under High Guard

...
>I think a better term might be "gearhead-challenged" campaign.  I'm not
>a phobe, but I'm not a gearhead either.  I'm probably a gearhead
>wannabe...  I'd love to understand it!  I just want to know what it can
>and can't do, and then my character wants to be able to squeeze a little
>more out of the systems....

  Depends on whether your campaigns are full of `geers and physicists,
in which context the ref being gearhead-phobic makes perfect sense :>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 22:45:17 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: aircraft losses (off topic)

>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Subject: Re: aircraft losses (off topic)
...
>It might even be possible to skip the ballon or chute and just use some
>sort of MIRV setup. That is, a missile with a *lot* of AA-seeking
>submunitions deployed from the bus at high altitude.

  One idea is to have part of the first volley over - preferably into
another, already spotted target? - include a good imaging package.

  In any case one of the first things any low-TL (8-) military will do
is procure anti-artillery PD, but eliminating that capability may not
do their morale one bit of good.

...
>------------------------------
...
>From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
>Subject: Re: aircraft losses (drifting back on-topic)
...
>Even better (from the attacker's point of view) would be a loitering
>missile, carrying a deep-penetration warhead, with a seeker head
>designed to pick up stray meson emissions from deep meson sites....

  Striker had design sequences for high (D+?) tech AG drone missiles,
although they genuinely were not very bright.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 22:03:11 -0800
From: "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@home.com>
Subject: Re: "Gas-Giant Gang?"

Black ICE wrote

It occurred to me that there must be an interstellar equivalent to the
"Mile-High Club."  (I trust that the connection is clear to most posters.)
Since ships spend a week or so in jumpspace per jump, I didn't think that
"Jumpspace Jazzer" would be appropriate.  I then figured that your average
starship spends maybe a couple of hours per jump skimming fuel from a gas
giant, and that the view might be, shall we say, _inspirational_.  Thus, I
offer the slang term "Gas-Giant Gang" as a Traveller equivalent to the
"Mile-High Club."

_________________________________________________________

How about the "Jumpspace Jump". Timing "it" to end when the ship enters jump
space.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 01:07:42 -0500
From: "N. Eric Phillips" <stilleon@io.com>
Subject: What are drop tanks?

I've heard of them on the list and they are mentioned in Behind the Claw for
GURPS- but what are they? How do they work? Did I miss something in the
GURPS stuff that explains them?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 01:06:02 -0500
From: Brandon Quina <lore@tmgbbs.com>
Subject: New Poster and GURPS: Traveller

Hello everyone.  I subscribed to the list afew minutes ago, and
I wanted to introduce myself to the list in general and perhaps ask afew
quick questions before lurking and perhaps contributing to afew threads;
hopefully ones that my quick questions will start.


	However, before the barrage of questions, abit of history.  I've
been roleplaying for a rather long time, though i'm sure they'll be
people who've played for longer than my own eight years.  Traveller
wasn't my first game, I was a AD&D junkie for a good long time. 
Eventually, however, I started to buy pretty much every gaming system on
the shelves.  It was one of these 'diversions' that caused me to find
Traveller;  in this case, Traveller: the New Era.

	The book was abit hard to read, and I never worked up the courage to
actually run the game.  I didn't like the rules system,
parts of the book seemed sketchy, and all in all, I just didn't feel
comfortable with the game.  I did love the setting though, though I
didn't understand even half of it.  I never played the game, and it
quickly began to gather dust, but it did remain on my mind.  That's
what attracted my attention to GURPS: Travellers.

	I had played GURPS for awhile, and had gained something of
a liking for the system;  though many of the players are far too
inclined to rules lawyering.  I still liked the game, and many of the
books.  Thus, upon seeing a 'Traveller' title on the book and the
catching title I promptly bought it and read the information.

	Or most of it.  I'm up too chapter 4, equipment, and have
skimmed through the next few chapters.  All in all, very good, and I
find that I have a much better understanding of the game than I did
after reading New Era;  as well as a profound intrest in the setting,
and in running a game there.


	Now, the questions.  Here they are, two of them.  Hopefully
you veteran Traveller folk can provide me with afew answers.

	#1:  I'm fairly sure as to who and what the Emperor is, and I
know that the Archduke's rule over the domains while the dukes rule over
the sectors.  What, however, do the other titles in the Third Imperial
government do;  what are their powers and responcibilitys?

	The ranks im talking about are those under the rank of
duke:  Marquis, Count, Baron, Knight.

	#2:  In the non-alternate version of Traveller, the
AI Virus is released some 10 years from the given campaign date
in the New Era.  Is it perhaps possible that the Imperium has
access to the virus??  Or atleast some testing and research, still
with alot of work left before its ready to be implemented.

	If the 'virus' does exist, its more likely that it will
either never be used or will not be used anytime in the near future.
Afterall, the Imperium seems responcible enough to not unleash a
weapon that they don't fully understand--  the scattered shards of
the Third Imperium after the Rebellion that's never going to happen
now we're desperate and irresponcible enough to do so.

	Perhaps not all that important, but it could make an intresting
adventure thread or three.  Hmmm.



- -- 
Brandon,
congradulating loren, by the way, who did a very good job on the book.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 01:10:57 EST
From: LtSnuggles@aol.com
Subject: Re: What are drop tanks?

In a message dated 11/5/98 10:05:07 PM Pacific Standard Time, stilleon@io.com
writes:

<< 've heard of them on the list and they are mentioned in Behind the Claw for
 GURPS-but what are they?  How do they work? Did I miss something in the
 GURPS stuff that explains them? >>

I believe that 'drop tanks' are a parallel to the W.W.II technique of
attaching extra fuel tanks to the belly of aircraft on long flights to extend
range.  When the fuel from these tanks was expended, they could be jettisoned
for reduced weight and added maneuverability.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 22:11:12 -0800
From: Bob Piper <mandrake@jps.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1104

> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 18:05:43 PST
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> Subject: Re: aircraft losses
> [SNIP]
>> In mail you write:
>> These weren't A-10's, so they couldn't handle the level of ground fire.
>>
> Sounds like a great job for a cruise missile or for a remote piloted
> drone. You crash the thing into the runway at the end of the run.
 Would close even an Iraqi runway for less than an hour tops.  Probably
 not more than 15 minutes.  Runway cratering munitions don't explode
 on the ground at impact.  The best (I'm partial to the Durandal but
 I think US/UK are using something newer then and now) hang on a 
 parachute, stabilize, then fire themselves into the runway at a
 failry high speed.  Once they've penetrated below the runway
 they explode, makeing a crate /below/ the tarmac and buckling
 the runway badly.

 The reason the Tornados had to go low is these munitions require
 a lot of precision, an error by as much as 15ft could mean that
 the runway wouldn't be closed.  Drop them to high, and they are
 fairly easy targets for AAA.  Drop them to low, they don't stabilize
 and will shoot off center, most likely missing all together.

 With every yokel with an AK and way to many AAA gun batteries, this
 was not a fun job.  The Tornadoes on runway denial missions had the
 highest loss rate in the entire air campaign.  A-10's might have had
 a higher survival rate, but would have been exposed to fire much
 longer due to their low top end speed, so its questionable wether
 they would have had a better success rate.

 bob.

> - -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1105
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Friday, November 6 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 1106



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: What are drop tanks?
Re: What are drop tanks?
re: Long range fire
Re: New Poster and GURPS: Traveller
Re: New Poster and GURPS: Traveller
Re: System Defense spending on Gov 7 worlds
Re: Nobles
Grav tank configs (was Re: aircraft losses)
Re: Lanthanum grids and stuff
Musings on the breakdown of responsibility in the Imperium
RE: New Poster and GURPS: Traveller
Re: Project: StarRise
Re: "Gas-Giant Gang?"
Diiitzie is back
GT: Seeking thoughts on skills...
re: Jump Range Limits By TL
Re: Phooey on canon! (Was: What canon means to me)
Frustration IS canon (way too long)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 01:19:58 -0500
From: Brandon Quina <lore@tmgbbs.com>
Subject: Re: What are drop tanks?

> I've heard of them on the list and they are mentioned in Behind the
> Claw for GURPS- but what are they? How do they work? Did I miss
> something in the GURPS stuff that explains them?

I'm not sure where that comes from, but it sounds like it would probally
be in GURPS: Vehicles.  I personally don't have the book, do too not
having enough money to throw it away on a non-essential supplement that
goes over how to construct everything from a 57' Chevy to a Spanish
Galleon in scruplous detail.  If you share this thriftyness, then it
wouldn't be that hard to make your own drop-tank rules.

Historically, Drop Tanks are basically disposable fuel tanks that are
gotten rid of once you've used the fuel within.  They would, in my
mind, be useful for temporarily boost your range (ie.  allowing you to
carry more fuel, and thus, jump more before refueling.)  I would
imagine they would cost less than a full fledged fuel-tank, but would
probally require some kinda modification to the ship so that they
could accept the 'tanks'.  The modification would be a one-time deal,
the drop-tanks would--naturally--have to be replaced.

Small merchant traders and the Imperial Scouts are the main groups I
can envision using Drop Tanks.



- -- 
Brandon,

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 02:07:51 EST
From: CPsyop@aol.com
Subject: Re: What are drop tanks?

In a message dated 11/5/98 10:05:07 PM Pacific Standard Time, stilleon@io.com
writes:

> I've heard of them on the list and they are mentioned in Behind the Claw for
>  GURPS- but what are they? How do they work? Did I miss something in the
>  GURPS stuff that explains them?

Drop tanks are normally seen on the Imperial Gazelle-class Close Escort.
While attached the ship had performance characteristics of 4G acceleration and
Jump-4.  The tanks could be drained and dropped to give a single Jump-5 (due
to reduced displacement).  Until new tanks are attached the Gazelle's
acceleration jumps to 5G but there is only sufficient internal fuel tankage
for Jump-2.

The type R subsidized merchant can also mount a 40-ton fuel module in it's
cargo bay to boost it to two Jump-1's (as was used by the March Harrier in The
Traveller Adventure campaign).  Similar mechanics are possible on other ships.

Chris Ruhl
SGT USAR
301st PSYOP Company (Airborne)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 23:29:48 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: Long range fire

>Required shots to assure 1 hit: (Pi * ( (Tls + Tlw) * A)^2) / Acs
>Tls = Time Lag (one way) in seconds, of sensor system
>Tlw = time lag (one way) for weapon system.
>A = mps accelleration maximum
>Acs = Area, cross-sectional, in square meters 

Actually, the formula is 
(Pi*(0.5 * (Tls+Tlw)^2)*A^2) / Acs
since distance travelled away from predicted position
0.5 * A * T^2.

This reduces hit probabilities at long ranges but increases them at short
ranges compared to your calculation.

(One thing no version has gotten right - you should go from near-certain-hit
to very-low-hit-chance quite rapidly.)

bruce

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 02:34:55 EST
From: CPsyop@aol.com
Subject: Re: New Poster and GURPS: Traveller

In a message dated 11/5/98 10:10:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, lore@tmgbbs.com
writes:


<SNIP>

> Now, the questions.  Here they are, two of them.  Hopefully
>  you veteran Traveller folk can provide me with afew answers.
>  
>  	#1:  I'm fairly sure as to who and what the Emperor is, and I
>  know that the Archduke's rule over the domains while the dukes rule over
>  the sectors.  What, however, do the other titles in the Third Imperial
>  government do;  what are their powers and responcibilitys?
>  
>  	The ranks im talking about are those under the rank of
>  duke:  Marquis, Count, Baron, Knight.
>  

A discussion on the structure of the Imperial government and the duties and
obligations of the nobility can by found in Behind The Claw, the second GURPS:
Traveller book which covers the Spinward Marches.  In a nutshell, the Imperium
controls affairs "between the stars" and anything that "threatens teh security
of the Imperium" which is intentionally open to loose interpretation.  

As far as the nobility, some nobles serve as liaisons for the member worlds in
the Imperial Court.  Others are charged with various "fact-finding" missions
for the Emperor and to represent the Imperium abroad.  Others are sent to act
as "troubleshooters" and serve as the Imperium's eyes and hands on member
worlds that have suffered major setbacks/disasters.  While it is quite
possible for nobles to serve as no more then diletantes (and there are those),
others see it as obligation of their position to serve the citizens of the
Imperium however they can or are charged.

>  	#2:  In the non-alternate version of Traveller, the
>  AI Virus is released some 10 years from the given campaign date
>  in the New Era.  Is it perhaps possible that the Imperium has
>  access to the virus??  Or atleast some testing and research, still
>  with alot of work left before its ready to be implemented.
>  

I imagine some Imperial Research Station is working on AI's.  That's really up
to you to decide for your campaign.  The main GURPS: Traveller book discusses
AI's in the sidebar on pg. 18.

>  	If the 'virus' does exist, its more likely that it will
>  either never be used or will not be used anytime in the near future.
>  Afterall, the Imperium seems responcible enough to not unleash a
>  weapon that they don't fully understand--  the scattered shards of
>  the Third Imperium after the Rebellion that's never going to happen
>  now we're desperate and irresponcible enough to do so.
>  
>  	Perhaps not all that important, but it could make an intresting
>  adventure thread or three.  Hmmm.
>  

Then again, the Virus was released by the "legitamate" Imperial government in
the Rebellion setting.  But it went further then they had intended it to.  And
nothing to say one of the many megacorps isn't dabbling with AI tech and it
gets out of hand. Plenty to inhabited worlds outside the Imperial sphere they
can do their research on.

>  
>  -- 
>  Brandon,
>  congradulating loren, by the way, who did a very good job on the book.
>  
>  
>  

Chris Ruhl
SGT USAR
301st PSYOP Company (Airborne)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 02:34:59 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: New Poster and GURPS: Traveller

lore@tmgbbs.com <Brandon Quina> wrote:

>Hello everyone.  I subscribed to the list afew minutes ago, and
>I wanted to introduce myself to the list in general and perhaps ask afew
>quick questions before lurking and perhaps contributing to afew threads;
>hopefully ones that my quick questions will start.


Hi, I'm Chris Seamans (semo@pil.net). I'm a part time poster to the list,
and it could be a good long while before you see anything from me again.
Then again, it could be tomorrow :-)

> Now, the questions.  Here they are, two of them.  Hopefully
>you veteran Traveller folk can provide me with afew answers.


Something of a veteran here...  Not a newbie at any rate :-)

> #1:  I'm fairly sure as to who and what the Emperor is, and I
>know that the Archduke's rule over the domains while the dukes rule over
>the sectors.  What, however, do the other titles in the Third Imperial
>government do;  what are their powers and responcibilitys?

> The ranks im talking about are those under the rank of
>duke:  Marquis, Count, Baron, Knight.


Let's see if I can help you out. I think I might be able to. The following
information is paraphrased from "Classic" Traveller "Supplement 11: Library
Data (N-Z)". The same information is also located in the MegaTraveller
"Imperial Encyclopedia".

***Knight: Lowest of the noble ranks, awarded as an honorific rank in
recognition for achievement or service. There are many different orders of
knighthood, depending on the achievement or service attained or performed.
I'm going to list a couple, but there are many more:

Order of the Emperor's Guard - General and common
Order of Starship and Crown - General and common
Order of Hlyuea - Aslan citizens
Order of Gvadakoung - Vargr citizens
Order of the Arrow - Interstellar explorers

Furthermore, each domain also has an order named after it (Order of Vland,
Order of Sol, Order of Antares, etc.). Titles are given out for these by the
Archduke of the domain. The Order of Sylea is administered by the Emperor
himself, the defacto Archduke of Sylea.

***Baronet: Intermediate between first and second levels of noble rank.
Created usually by archdukes, although the Emperor can create them if he so
desires.

***Baron: Lowest level of nobility accorded membership in the peerage. In
layman's terms, the lowest rank a noble can attain and be viewed as a noble
by other nobles. A person awarded the rank of baron usually gets a small
fief of land, not often greater than 100 square kilometers.

***Marquis: A marquis is associated with a single world (generally a large
or important one with a Class A or B Starport).

***Count: Associated with two or three worlds in a subsector.

***Duke: Normally associated with a subsector, although a duke may
eventually come to lead an entire sector. No special title is given to a
sector duke.

That should pretty much cover most of the bases, I think. Hope that helps.

> #2:  In the non-alternate version of Traveller, the
>AI Virus is released some 10 years from the given campaign date
>in the New Era.  Is it perhaps possible that the Imperium has
>access to the virus??  Or atleast some testing and research, still
>with alot of work left before its ready to be implemented.


If you want to believe it's so, it's so. I'm not sure if GURPS: Traveller is
going to acknowledge any part of the TNE timeline. It's doubtful that Loren
& Co. will though. Don't quote me on that though :-)

>Brandon,


Welcome aboard :-)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 03:00:34 EST
From: CPsyop@aol.com
Subject: Re: System Defense spending on Gov 7 worlds

In a message dated 11/5/98 8:50:33 PM Pacific Standard Time,
shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca writes:

> Which is almost exactly how the 2300 AD scenario "Lone Wolf" can play
>  given the various players victory conditions - it's from a Challenge
>  (around #40?) and is up on a 2300 AD site somewhere. Fantastic work.
>  
>          Steven Hudson

 <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arcade/2303/kevin.htm">
Pentapod's World: A 2300AD RPG Website</A>
(http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arcade/2303/kevin.htm) is where you will
find the scenario.  Go to "2300AD Magazine Articles".

Chris Ruhl
SGT USAR
301st PSYOP Company (Airborne)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 18:04:31
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Nobles

>From: Brandon Quina <lore@tmgbbs.com>
>Subject: New Poster and GURPS: Traveller
>
>	#1:  I'm fairly sure as to who and what the Emperor is, and I
>know that the Archduke's rule over the domains while the dukes rule over
>the sectors.  What, however, do the other titles in the Third Imperial
>government do;  what are their powers and responcibilitys?
>
>	The ranks im talking about are those under the rank of
>duke:  Marquis, Count, Baron, Knight.
>

Well, there isnt a single answer that applies everywhere and through the
whole history of the Imperium.

There are basically two themes - either that people are noble because they
are important, or people are important because they are noble.

Things get sticky becuase the Imperium claims to rule not worlds, but the
space between the worlds. Giving Imperial nobles land grants on member
worlds, or taxation rights on the same, intrudes on this IMO.

One compromise is that Imperial fiefs are on Imperial territory, like
starports (Marquis get A ports, Counts B ports, Barons C ports, and Knights
get a hundred pounds of TDX explosives, a navigation beam and, if they are
well-connected, someone to set the explosives to clear a space for a Class
E starport), or that Nobles are granted uninhabited territory to settle
('By my rights as Emperor, I Strephon grant you, Sir X of Y, and your heirs
of the body, a fief inalienable, being the third body orbiting the star
875-127 in District 268 of the Spinward Marches').

The other option is nobility carries no power in and of itself - the fact
that Admiral Santanocheev is also a Marquis is less important than his job
as Fleet Grand Admiral. Of course, being related to the right people,
having gone to the right schools etc is a major career advantage in
Imperial Service.

Promoting your relatives is also a tradition for most noble families in
Civil Service.

>	#2:  In the non-alternate version of Traveller, the
>AI Virus is released some 10 years from the given campaign date
>in the New Era.  Is it perhaps possible that the Imperium has
>access to the virus??  Or atleast some testing and research, still
>with alot of work left before its ready to be implemented.

Referee's call IMO. 

>
>	If the 'virus' does exist, its more likely that it will
>either never be used or will not be used anytime in the near future.
>Afterall, the Imperium seems responcible enough to not unleash a
>weapon that they don't fully understand--  the scattered shards of
>the Third Imperium after the Rebellion that's never going to happen
>now we're desperate and irresponcible enough to do so.

As far as I remember, Mustard Gas was invented by Sir Humphrey Davey, and
was filed in the British Army's 'Too Horrible to Use' files for 100 years
or so, so I find it quite credible that the military potential of Virus
would be filed under 'Probably wont work, and if it does, it is too
dangerous to use'.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 01:07:52 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Grav tank configs (was Re: aircraft losses)

>From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
>Subject: Re: aircraft losses (off topic)
...
>Hmm. This brings to my mind once again the question of ground attack
>aircraft in the Traveller setting (i.e., those pesky grav tanks). I am
>surprised that none of the grav tanks I have ever seen depicted have pop-up
>weapon systems. I would think that a logical addition to a grav tank would
>be an extendable tower for sensors and/or weapons systems.

  Given TL 9+, remote sensors may just be an issue of getting handed off
info from other platforms - perhaps small, lightly armoured air-rafts
fitted out as RPV's? At TL 12 you can go the Zho-bot route.

>One would think also that you would make an grav attack aircraft narrow
>head-on, not unlike a AH-64 Apache or AH-1 HueyCobra without the main rotor.
>Wings aren't an issue, except as weapons pylons. You could run a main
>armament down the center of the vehicle (a spinal mount, like the GAU-8 on
>the Thunderbolt II).

  Were any of the units in COACC gunships of this type?

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 18:33:24
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Lanthanum grids and stuff

>From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
>Subject: Jumping from inside an atmosphere is a *BAD* thing
>
>For the sceptics (and those who can't agree with me when I say the sun rises
>in the west ;) another possibility - Again assuming that the power of the
>grid is sufficient to cause the metal to generate *lots* of light and heat
>(I'm assuming that the grid is well insulated from the ship, and thus does
>not cause internal damage) - metal tends to soften when it's hot.  And while
>activating the grid well outside a gravity well, or at least in
>microgravity, will tend not to affect it, subjecting it to a full gravity
>well and causing it to have to support it's own weight (at least on the
>underside of the ship) while also making it ...ummmm... supple?  Well, that
>may cause permanent distortion of the grid - and may require a shipyard
>visit - assuming that the warpage of the J-field is not sufficient to cause
>a misjump or a J-space hull breach.
>

Y'know, this could explain jump dimming - minimise power use to cut down on
the heat coming out of the power plant radiators.

>And the final possibility I'd like to offer - Heating up some metals can
>cause them to become, I believe the word is promiscuous?  They bond to any
>stray molecules that come their way.  Firing up the J-drive in an atmosphere
>will allow your grid to come into contact with lots and lots of stray
>molecules - and suddenly instead of a lanthanum grid, you have a lanthanum
>*alloy* grid.
>

What happens if the ship is being shot at by energy weapons while trying to
jump ?

>Now THAT should give an Astrogator grey hair!  :)

Yep.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:33:48 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Musings on the breakdown of responsibility in the Imperium

I've been considering at what level are Imperial responsibilities held. 
 For example, we know that there is an Imperial ministry of Justice, but 
how far down does it extend?  My basic thought is that not all services we 
think of as coming from the Imperium are going to be duplicated to every 
world.  Intraworld commerce - the province of the Baron/Baronet will be, 
but does every world in the Imperium have a staffed office of IMOJ?

I don't think so...

But every Sector would have one.  And, very likely, every Subsector would 
have one - so this office is duplicated to the SubSector Level.

Here is what I have so far - I'd be interested in comments/additions....

douglas




Imperial Level:
	The Moot

Domain Level:
	Imperial Military Force Command

Sector Level:
	Colonial Force Command
	Imperial Bank of Commerce

Subsector Level:
	Imperial Ministry of Justice
	Military Liaison (co-ordinates the training and supply of Imperial forces)
	Technological/Cultural development
	Imperial Academies (Naval, Marine, Merchant, Military)
	IBIS/IRIS
	Ship Registry and Crew Qualification certifications

System Level:
	System Defense
	Imperial Recruiting Command
	Imperial Ministry of State (Imperial Presence on each system)
	Spaceport Authority

Planet Level:
	Commerce (promotes and coordinates interworld commerce)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 01:01:35 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: RE: New Poster and GURPS: Traveller

On Thursday, November 05, 1998 10:06 PM, Brandon Quina 
[SMTP:lore@tmgbbs.com] wrote:
> Hello everyone.  I subscribed to the list afew minutes ago, and
> I wanted to introduce myself to the list in general and perhaps ask afew
> quick questions before lurking and perhaps contributing to afew threads;
> hopefully ones that my quick questions will start.

Hi Brandon.  I'm Douglas Glatz (one of a couple of Douglas's on the list) - 
welcome aboard!  Hope we don't drive you nuts too quickly!  :)

>
>
> 	However, before the barrage of questions, abit of history.  I've
> been roleplaying for a rather long time, though i'm sure they'll be
> people who've played for longer than my own eight years.  Traveller
> wasn't my first game, I was a AD&D junkie for a good long time.
> Eventually, however, I started to buy pretty much every gaming system on
> the shelves.  It was one of these 'diversions' that caused me to find
> Traveller;  in this case, Traveller: the New Era.

You travel in good company so far - that's the basic path I followed 
(except for me it was D&D and then CT or classic traveller)

[snip]

> 	Now, the questions.  Here they are, two of them.  Hopefully
> you veteran Traveller folk can provide me with afew answers.
>
> 	#1:  I'm fairly sure as to who and what the Emperor is, and I
> know that the Archduke's rule over the domains while the dukes rule over
> the sectors.  What, however, do the other titles in the Third Imperial
> government do;  what are their powers and responcibilitys?
>
> 	The ranks im talking about are those under the rank of
> duke:  Marquis, Count, Baron, Knight.

Each of us has different answers, and none of the answers are completely 
written in stone.  Allow me (with modesty) to point you at my web page 
where I have posted a article on the Nobility.  My only disclaimer is that 
what I have written applies to my campaign (or IMTU - in my traveller 
universe), and may not be applicable to yours.  Use as much, or as little, 
as you like.  The URL is http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller

Again, welcome to the TML!

douglas

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------  
- ------------------------
Never anger a dragon, for they have found you are crunchy, and go well with 
Brie!

Douglas Glatz, MCSE
douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------  
- ------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 23:18:59 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Project: StarRise

From:           	"Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us>
Date sent:      	Tue, 3 Nov 1998 14:33:23 -0600 (CST)

Sorry about the dealy in replying to this, I've been out of town for a few days 
due to family comitments.

>Greetings,

[snip]

>I would appreciate any references that anyone might be able to give 
>me regarding the worlds and the milieu of the Solomani Rim during 
>that time period.  (I don't have access to my AM:Solomani, 
>unfortunately, and I won't until the holidays.)  I have seen Mick 
>Bailey's Milieu 0 work on the Solomani Rim, and will be taking a lot 
>from there, as well as Harold Hale's work on the Vegans.  (Are there 
>any other minor races in the sector besides the chips?  I haven't 
>found any references on the web yet.)  If I have used the wrong names 
>in giving credit for hard work done, then I apologize.

I (with a lot of help from others) have done some work on this period for my 
Prometheus Rising project. It's mainly focused on the Nine Wars period, but I'd 
be happy to post it if people wish.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 03:21:11 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: "Gas-Giant Gang?"

At 10:25 PM 11/5/98 -0600, you wrote:
>I was getting ready to respond to a post about subsidized merchants. 
>In particular, the poster had asked something about anti-trust
>violations.  As I was about to type that "the Imperium doesn't give a
>flying **** about anti-trust" (Cleon I's Restoration being _based_ on a
>technological monopoly), it occurred to me that there must be an
>interstellar equivalent to the "Mile-High Club."

According to G. Harry Stine's "Halfway to Anywhere", the club is called The
Three Dolphin Club ( a reference to the fact that dolphins always mate in
threes, one male, one female, one assisstant), and already has at least ten
members.
- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 21:44:15
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Diiitzie is back

To : Hengabar Spofulam

From : Diiitzieeeee

cc : Maaaaarketing

We're redesigning the Four fours Esss-deeeee-beeee, an an an an weeeee have
this great slooooow-gan for it.

>I can live with that.  What I *can't* live with are Rabid Impregable 
>Beachballs From Hell.
>
>Keven

Weeeee dont think the Four-fours (can we call it the Rabid Impregnaaaaable
Beeeeeachball-liie-ballie-ball-ball from Hellllllllll) is impreganble, but
but but weeeee reckon it would take a lot of work to punchie-wunchie-wunch
thru ten centimeter-wentimenters of suuuuppper-dense (maybe twennie
cennimeteres of criiiistaliron, we're not suuuuuure right now) with a
laaaaaaser.


Your loving cousin,

Ditzie

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 08:21:11 -0500
From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
Subject: GT: Seeking thoughts on skills...

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 17:39:54 -0500
From: Andy Slack <AndySlack@compuserve.com>
Subject: GT: Seeking thoughts on skills...
Hi fellas -
I'm toying with GT and there seem to be some
inconsistencies with the skills, especially around
Mechanic/Engineering/Elec Ops.
I am not a heavy GURPS user (at least not yet,
although the GT line may tip me over the edge)
so I was wondering if anyone can tell me...
1. What specialisations are there for these skills?
   There seems to be a different set every place I
   look, maybe that's me not understanding how it
   hangs together.
************
there is a list in Basic, from memory:
Sensors
Commo
Medical
and 3 or 4 others....
GT adds one: Force Shields (For Meson Screens)

2. What's the difference between Engineer (J-Drive)
   and Mechanic (J-Drive), apart from one has a
   default and the other doesn't?
   (The scoutship writeup has the crew needing both
   but the Scout template only gives you mechanic,
   I'm assuming this is because they were written
   by different people?)
******************
The engineer can design the drives as well.

3. Why do you need Tactics to fly a Free Trader?
****************
Incase you want to turn Pirate?

seriously, a tactics in addition to being useful in combat can also help
you spot an ambush, as in:

it looks like that Fast Trader is setting us up for a fireing pass.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 08:40:40 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Jump Range Limits By TL

SD Mooney Wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Tech level is not mentioned in the tables at all with respect to drives. (*)

Hence if it isn't specified you can't really state 'a code-A jump drive,
available at TL9' because 'a code-A jump drive, unavailable at TL9' is
equally valid. HG did not invalidate this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Tech level with respect to letter-coded drives is mentioned in CT Book3, 
when they present us with a tech level table. Weapons, transportation, 
medicine, power generation and _DRIVES_ are all presented with what 
tech  level they become available at. So you _can_ state what tech level
a Jump-A drive is available at (TL9, btw).

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 08:44:50 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Re: Phooey on canon! (Was: What canon means to me)

SD Mooney wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

IIRC the LBBs don't specify the TL you are building at in anyway means or
shape. I always assumed TL15....

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
TL isn't specified, but can be limited. You can't use Jump-6 capability
without a Model/6 computer, not available until TL 12. You can't
install code-Z drives until they become available at TL 15. These
availabilites are from the TL table in CT Book3.

Most of the CT "standard" starships are buildable between TL9 and TL11.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 05:55:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Roberto Camino <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Frustration IS canon (way too long)

Sorry to be verbose, but I couldn't sit out of the
canon discussion any longer.  Below is a copy of my
initial post in the Classic Traveller Resurgence
eGroup ( www.egroups.com/list/classic-traveller ).
With it I'm trying to explain why I hate and love
canon.  I've used the milieu as a crutch, esp. for
running campaigns with one player, and I've used it
to drive players beyond the boarders of known space.
It's long, so grab a cup of coffee.
===============================


When I first began playing the game in 1978, the 
GDW adventures and even JTAS were not yet 
published. The standards and assumptions of 
those books did not begin to become available to players until late in
that year. We had to invent
our own milieu, our own Traveller 
Universe. The young man who refereed my first 
games had one little subsector with twenty 
worlds only a few of which were fleshed out. 
Only one, Gateway, had it's own destinctive
"look and feel". Everything beyond that star 
system was a mystery to me.

Much of what we encountered was invented the
night before by our referee. Some times it 
didn't work, but most times it was a challenging
new world or adventure that we stepped out into.

So, as I bought my own little black box of little
black books (plus Book 4 and Supplement 1) a
short time later, I too created my own universe. 
I invested hundreds of hours into charting and 
NPC generation and storylines, creating an entire 
milieu from scratch over that next year. I honed 
and perfected after every gaming session to make 
it better for the next group to play.

During that year, 1979, Marc Miller began to
reveal his own carefully crafted milieu. At 
first it was just something to hang a scenario 
on, an optional background, in case the reader 
was so unimaginative as to have no universe of 
their own. I ignored it when it appeared in the 
JTAS. I skipped over that paragraph or two in 
The Kinunir. It began to build and become more 
integral to the materials, so I shunned it, 
banned it and scoffed at it.

But it was overpowering. It was too well laid
out. It swept over everything, like a well- 
planned mutiny. I struggled to make my universe 
compatible. I placed my worlds into a sector 
near the Spinward Marches. But there was no 
holding the milieu back. A dozen other 
publishers cranked out adventures and 
supplements. It snowballed larger and larger. 
My universe, one hundred worlds, was pushed 
aside. The last time I ran an adventure there 
was September of 1984. Only a handful of worlds 
exist today. Integrated with the Sword Worlds, 
several of them fell to the Imperium during the 
Fifth Frontier War.

That is why Milieu-1105 must not be abandonned!
It is the milieu that is so big, so well fleshed 
out, that nothing can stand up to it. Not the 
Rebelion, not the Virus, not even Grandfather! 
(sorry, Ravat). T4 draws it in, but doesn't 
build it up (though I believe IG and MM intended 
to.) T5 will probably ignore it. But it cannot 
be put down, it cannot be ignored, because the 
future of the games depends upon it. You see, 
there is going to be a RESURGENCE!, a return of 
the original players, coming back to the game. 
Call it nostalgia, call it recapturing your 
youth. Whatever the psycology behind it, the 
wave is coming. That wave might be able to carry 
the game to new heights, but only if the return- 
ing masses are comfortable with and can recognize 
the game that they once knew and loved.

I vote for republication of the old materials, 
and I loudly declare that new adventures must be 
published for the original milieu. I desire to 
be at the crest of the next wave, to ride high 
once again on the only RPG that has held onto me 
for more than a short season. There is quality 
and an ideal here that will carry Traveller to 
the top one more time. I can see it, I can feel 
it, can any of you?

===========================

One final thought: you need to build something up
so that it is real enough that, when it falls, it
will cause a real sense of loss.  I was excited and
renewed by the "assassination" plot, so much so that
I got back into playing at a time when I was 
drifting away.  I'm still so peaved about the virus
idea that I can now understand why book burning has
been a recurring theme in our history!  I say that
it is the canon, or common history, that gives us
a common topic to talk about.  Love it or hate it,
it's 99% of our common Traveller knowledge.
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1106
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Friday, November 6 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 1107



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

re: Gas Giant Gang
Re: aircraft losses (Back on Topic)
Re: Phooey on canon!
Re: Gunnery Crew (was re: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1080)
Re: Poison Gas (was: nobles)
Re: Phooey on canon
Re: New Poster and GURPS: Traveller
What are drop tanks? Additional Questions
Frustration IS canon (way too long)
Re: Grav tank configs (was Re: aircraft losses)
Droptanks/Hardpoints
Re: Traveller * Rules tweaking
Grav tank configs (Back on Topic)
Re: Long range fire
Creative use of Denitometers
Using cargo holds for passengers

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:01:42 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Gas Giant Gang

Black ICE wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<snip> it occurred to me that there must be an
interstellar equivalent to the "Mile-High Club."  (I trust that the
connection is clear to most posters.)  Since ships spend a week or so in
jumpspace per jump, I didn't think that "Jumpspace Jazzer" would be
appropriate.  I then figured that your average starship spends maybe a
couple of hours per jump skimming fuel from a gas giant, and that the
view might be, shall we say, _inspirational_.  Thus, I offer the slang
term "Gas-Giant Gang" as a Traveller equivalent to the "Mile-High Club."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
No more than we have a "cruise ship club" or "hotel room club".

Star travellers in Traveller have their own cabins, live on the ship
for appreciable periods of time and have a modicum of privacy.
Very different from the titillating aspects of joining the "Mile High
Club".

Unless some people have a sensual reaction to the psychological
stress of being in jump space - some people have such a reaction
to dangerous situations.

Walt Smith

Walt Smith
System Manager
Hartwick College
Oneonta, NY
smithw@hartwick.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:14:49 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: aircraft losses (Back on Topic)

>>>I don't think even A-10's...[snip]
>Hmm. This brings to my mind once again the question of ground attack
>aircraft in the Traveller setting (i.e., those pesky grav tanks). I am
>surprised that none of the grav tanks I have ever seen depicted have pop-up
>weapon systems. I would think that a logical addition to a grav tank would
>be an extendable tower for sensors and/or weapons systems.

Like the sensor "dome" on the AH64D Attack Helo or the newest Kiowa scout
Helo?  It doesn't have to be very big.  Maybe just an emitter/receiver on a
mast.

The thing is, in the Traveller style TL10+ battlefield, *any* emissions and
*any* radar target is vulnerable to attack.  It's almost more logical for
the atttack craft to have *no* active sensors and just act as a weapons
platform for "scouts" with the sensors that are out of reach (orbital),
undetectable, or expendable.

>One would think also that you would make an grav attack aircraft narrow
>head-on, not unlike a AH-64 Apache or AH-1 HueyCobra without the main rotor.
>Wings aren't an issue, except as weapons pylons. You could run a main
>armament down the center of the vehicle (a spinal mount, like the GAU-8 on
>the Thunderbolt II).

The narrow profile would be logical if it weren't for the massive armor
requirements implied in Traveller style military ground combat.  A vehicle
needs to be able to take a few hits before going down in order to be
effective.  This requires several centimeters of superdense.  The tank-like
shape is a more efficient shape for this, although some of the fanciful
designs in, for example, 101 Vehicles are not really that great (Some of
the tanks have serious "shell traps" between hull and turret fronts).  A
fixed main armament means you need to be travelling directly at the target
to fire on it.  That can be a disadvantage.

I think Rob Prior had my favorite grav tank configuration in a few of his
designs; one turret ventral and one dorsal, offset from one another, both
of equal size for a main battery, then two small (remote) turrets on port
and starboard with lighter point defense/multipurpose weapons.  The main
hull was an elongated egg shape I think.  It seemed immensely logical to me
since there is full 360 x 360 main & secondary armament coverage with this
configuration without reorienting the hull or changing direction of travel.
Note that the option exists to keep power plant size down by allowing only
one main weapon at a time to fire.

On the other hand, I once designed a light attack grav sled in precisely
the form you suggest (like an attack helo without the rotor, sans spinal
mount) complete with stubby winglike weapons pylons for carrying guided
missiles.  It worked well in a low-threat environment.

Note that Striker's main form of attack for grav vehicles was the "popup"
attack, quite similar to the way an attack helo works; a tank would pop up
suddenly and fire at its target, returning to NOE altitude quickly to avoid
counterfire.

Pete


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 09:23:10 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Phooey on canon!

"Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net> writes:
>I'm not sure I made myself clear though. I don't have a problem with
>canon,
>I have a problem with every single thing needing to be mapped out,
>explained
>and codified. 

We agree, then. Good.

>A science-fiction game with outdated science
>requires a good deal of work for those players and GMs who have newer
>sci-fi
>roots.

While altering the established background makes work for the players who
have kept the game alive. A paradox?

Possibly we need a new universe. We have the Classic universe, with the
classic assumptions and SF feel. We then create a new, revised universe
that updated the SF while staying as close as possible to the older
universe. People with established campaigns could either stay in the old
universe or move to the new one, as the chose. Both would be "official",
and everyone would be happy. Careful writers would include conversion info
so that referees could run their adventures in either universe.
>
>I'd rather see exciting adventures, even if the inclusion of a spiffy
>spazzo
>ray seems to invalidate a paragraph in an old DGP publication that I've
>never seen anyway (and most of the people buying the adventure haven't
>seen
>and most likely will never see).

Judgement call here. Just because someone declares "spoz" the "worst drug
menace facing Imperial society" doesn't mean that all drug smuggling
adventures have to deal in spoz. After all, a lot that's written as "fact"
is more properly called "convention" or "opinion".
>
>>If things aren't mapped out, then those of us with little free time have
>>to spend more time working on details (and less time writing Traveller
>>software, designing ships, and so forth).
>
>There's a level of canon that works, and then there's a level that becomes
>stifling.

Yup.
>
>>So what's good detail?
>>
>>Check out one of the world articles from MegaTraveller Journal. A really
>>detailed system/mainworld, with a complete adventure set on the world and
>>scads of adventure seeds. Now THAT'S the way to usefully expand Traveller
>>canon.
>
>I'd love to. MTJ was the DGP magazine, correct? If so, it's unlikely I'll
>ever come across it.

I've got it, and DGP gave me permission to copy at no profit. Roger has
never actually revoked that permission, so as far as I know it still
stands. (And seeing as Roger ceased communicating with me as soon as I
inquired about the money DGP owes me, it's unlikely he'll revoke it.) 

Mind you, I also don't know if the authors of the articles got paid. If
they didn't, I would figure that they own the copyright to their articles
(morally if not legally). I'll try to post an authors list this weekend so
you can contact them and get permission.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:29:22 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Gunnery Crew (was re: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1080)

>>What are some of the ways that your PCs have found to pass the time in
>>jumpspace?

Bridge anyone?

Different campaign, different rulesset, I was actually a *player* for once,
our crew took up bridge (the card game) for the weeks-long transits between
planets.  Eventually we did the obvious; developed a short-hand code system
using bidding conventions as our code words.

"4 Clubs" = Prepare to get low to the ground.
"6 No Trump" = We hold all the cards/assets.
"1 Club" = I got something going on, combatwise.
  -Response of "1 No Trump" = I have nothing to help you with.

It was fun.

Pete


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 09:30:06 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Poison Gas (was: nobles)

Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au> writes:
>As far as I remember, Mustard Gas was invented by Sir Humphrey Davey, and
>was filed in the British Army's 'Too Horrible to Use' files for 100 years
>or so, so I find it quite credible that the military potential of Virus
>would be filed under 'Probably wont work, and if it does, it is too
>dangerous to use'.

True. Also of note:

Under the Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1906, axphyxiating gas was
specifically forbidden. The British discounted the warnings of chlorine
gas at Ypres because they believed that Germany wouldn't break the
convention.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 15:42:39 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Phooey on canon

Chris Seamans writes:

>Pardon me if I'm reading incorrectly, but what you're saying then is that
>canon really isn't that important? Or maybe there's a level of canon at
>which discrepencies aren't important?

No.
 
>>It's one thing if the new product is written by someone who knows the old
>>stuff and deliberately change some things in order to make the OTU more
>>consistent, it's quite another if it is inconsistent because the writer
>>didn't know about it (unfortunate, but excusable if it was a small, obscure
>>product, inexcusable if it was one of the major products) or didn't care
>>(totally inexcusable).
>  
>One of the "major products". What then _are_ the major products?

Everything published by GDW and DGP for starters. 

>There are very few Traveller products still in print.

I think Marc and Loren should be able to get around that problem.

>>As I said before, I don't expect miracles. If the author didn't know
>>because he had very little chance of finding out, it is unfortunate,
>>but excusable. If he didn't know because he didn't bother to find out,
>>that's another thing entirely.
> 
>Where to draw the line on bothering to figure it out?

If you could find out about it by asking for feedback on the TML but didn't,
you didn't bother enough IMO.
 
>>Wnen two canonical statements contradict each other or when a canonical bit
>>is self-contradictory or very, very unlikely[*], then my creativity is
>>stifled.
> 
>Many bits of canon are already self-contradicting. To many people, a
>majority of the Traveller universe is very, very unlikely.

Yes, and that's why I advocate keeping some canon and adjusting other canon.

>>OTOH, the possibilities of getting help has increased enourmously. Post a
>>plea on the TML for information about any star system and odds are very
>>good that there are people who can provide you with the most obscure
>>references.
> 
>In order to be properly briefed on canon, it seems one has to have a
>Doctorate in Travellerology :-)

You don't need that unless you have ambitions about adding to the OTU. If
you have, then, yes, I do think you ought to get yourself a "Doctorate in
Travellerology". Though a good editor with one may make that unneccesary.
 
>>IMO the Traveller Universe is not the Real Universe and dose not have to
>>correspond 100% to the Real Universe. I think it is a mistake to try to
>>shoehorn the events of the last 20 years developement in the Real World
>>into the TU. Fix a date (say, 1979) as the time the TU and the Real World
>>started to part company in earnest and don't try to update the TU to fit
>>new RW inventions unless the fit without much effort.
> 
>If Traveller can't adapt to meet modern day science fiction then there will
>be no new fans, no new blood... and Traveller will become as extinct as the
>dinosaurs.

I think you are mistaken. I believe that GURPS:Lensman was a huge succes, and
that universe assumed that the chip was never invented.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 08:03:04 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: New Poster and GURPS: Traveller

CPsyop@aol.com wrote:

> >       If the 'virus' does exist, its more likely that it will
> >  either never be used or will not be used anytime in the near future.
> >  Afterall, the Imperium seems responcible enough to not unleash a
> >  weapon that they don't fully understand--  the scattered shards of
> >  the Third Imperium after the Rebellion that's never going to happen
> >  now we're desperate and irresponcible enough to do so.
> >
> >       Perhaps not all that important, but it could make an intresting
> >  adventure thread or three.  Hmmm.
> >
> 
> Then again, the Virus was released by the "legitamate" Imperial government in
> the Rebellion setting.  But it went further then they had intended it to.  And
> nothing to say one of the many megacorps isn't dabbling with AI tech and it
> gets out of hand. Plenty to inhabited worlds outside the Imperial sphere they
> can do their research on.

Actually, Virus got out accidentally, when Dulinor's forces raided the
research station where it was being worked on. Virus was clearly an
unfinished weapon. Working with it under cotrolled conditions surely
showed its flaws as a weapon. (All it was supposed to do was take over
ships, shut them down and wait for the Imperial forces to arrive. It was
intended to disable ships without destroying them, letting the other
side recover them and use them against the enemy.)

Since Virus is derived from the Cymbeline chip lifeforms, it _is_ canon
to GT as that was set, IIRC, much earlier, some years after the Solomani
Rim War, in fact.

What you do with _that_ however, is up to you. From later references, it
is very clear that the Imperium clamped down hard on knowledge of the
Cymbelne chips, but that some knowledge was out there, including one
starship, if the scenario is played out as in Adv.13. The PC's have a
ship with an AI computer after that.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:21:09 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: What are drop tanks? Additional Questions

Chris Ruhl Said;
>In a message dated 11/5/98 10:05:07 PM Pacific Standard Time, stilleon@io.com
>writes:
>
>> I've heard of them on the list and they are mentioned in Behind the Claw for
>>  GURPS- but what are they? How do they work? Did I miss something in the
>>  GURPS stuff that explains them?
>
>Drop tanks are normally seen on the Imperial Gazelle-class Close Escort.
>While attached the ship had performance characteristics of 4G acceleration and
>Jump-4.  The tanks could be drained and dropped to give a single Jump-5 (due
>to reduced displacement).  Until new tanks are attached the Gazelle's
>acceleration jumps to 5G but there is only sufficient internal fuel tankage
>for Jump-2.

Just to make it explicitly clear; The tanks are drained and dropped
*before* the ship enters jump.  The tanks can then be reclaimed at the
origin system if desired/planned for.

>The type R subsidized merchant can also mount a 40-ton fuel module in it's
>cargo bay to boost it to two Jump-1's (as was used by the March Harrier in The
>Traveller Adventure campaign).  Similar mechanics are possible on other ships.

Or, if designed as such, could have a jump-2 drive installed and use the
added internal tankage to jump-2.

This brings up a questions which was nibbled around the edges in last
night's session.

Assumptions; A Cargo Bay can be used as a bunkroom, with a few easily
stored accoutrements.  Crew and passenger staterooms can be tripled or even
quadrupled for short periods of time, say the amount of time to transit to
jump point (20-40 hours usually).  A collapsable tank fills a cargo bay
until that tank is empty, at which point it can be stored in roughly 1% of
the previously occupied space.

So I can bring quite a few steerage passengers or troops by converting my
cargo bay cum fuel bladders into a bunkroom just after entering jump.  This
capacity is limited only by how many people I can "cram" into the existing
passenger/crew spaces for the period leading up to jump, say about 4 times
the usual capacity (thats about 1 person per ton), and if I have other
'auxiliary' spaces (gymnasium, dinig salon) I can cram 1 more per ton into
those spaces for short periods.

Ok, could someone please poke holes in this logic?  I don't really think
players should be doing this.

Pete





                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:48:15 -0500
From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
Subject: Frustration IS canon (way too long)

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 05:55:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Roberto Camino <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Frustration IS canon (way too long)

That is why Milieu-1105 must not be abandonned!
It is the milieu that is so big, so well fleshed
out, that nothing can stand up to it. Not the
Rebelion, not the Virus, not even Grandfather!
(sorry, Ravat). T4 draws it in, but doesn't
build it up (though I believe IG and MM intended
to.) T5 will probably ignore it................
............................. There is quality
and an ideal here that will carry Traveller to
the top one more time. I can see it, I can feel
it, can any of you?
***************
Two Words:

GURPS Traveller

:)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:17:07 -0600
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: Re: Grav tank configs (was Re: aircraft losses)

>  Given TL 9+, remote sensors may just be an issue of getting handed off
>info from other platforms - perhaps small, lightly armoured air-rafts
>fitted out as RPV's? At TL 12 you can go the Zho-bot route.


Hmm ... maybe. Today they have hand-off systems (I'm thinking of the AH-64
here), but there is still some utility to being able to see the target
yourself without making yourself vulnerable. I believe this is why the
AH-64 Longbow variant has its radar array on top of its main rotor, so that
it can paint a target with radar from behind a hill without exposing the
main body of the vehicle to fire.

IIRC, the American hovertank from 2300AD solved this problem with a
tethered sensor drone. I would imagine grav versions would be even more
versitile. A 1 kl sensor package with it's own propulsion unit, to look
over hills and find targets for smart missiles. You shoot the missile up,
and once its in the clear it aquires a target and heads on its way.

Of course, if even smart, small, and fast missiles can be shot down
routinely (with point defense laser systems), then I suppose high energy
weapons (HEWs) would come to dominate the battlefield. At this point, the
attack vehicle would have to expose itself to fire, since HEWs are big,
direct-fire weapons.


>>One would think also that you would make an grav attack aircraft narrow
>>head-on, not unlike a AH-64 Apache or AH-1 HueyCobra without the main rotor.
>>Wings aren't an issue, except as weapons pylons. You could run a main
>>armament down the center of the vehicle (a spinal mount, like the GAU-8 on
>>the Thunderbolt II).
>
>  Were any of the units in COACC gunships of this type?


Nope. There was a rotary-wing gunship, but a conspicuous lack of grav
vehicles in COACC. To me, it was the biggest disappointment in what was
otherwise my favorite MT supplement. There were few examples of
stellar-tech COACC vehicles. I guess this was due to the assumption that
Trepidas and their ilk would take on the role of attack aircraft by this
time and strike aircraft would be replaced by smart missiles. However,
while floating tanks have a high kewlness factor, but I somewhat doubt they
would be the best configuration for a combat aircraft. The attack speeders
in DGP's 101 Vehicles would be closer to the mark IMO, although I would
have configured and loaded them out differently.

Ciao,

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 11:37:31 -0500
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Droptanks/Hardpoints

At 02:07 AM 11/6/98 -0500, you wrote:
>In a message dated 11/5/98 10:05:07 PM Pacific Standard Time, stilleon@io.com
>writes:
>
>> I've heard of them on the list and they are mentioned in Behind the Claw for
>>  GURPS- but what are they? How do they work? Did I miss something in the
>>  GURPS stuff that explains them?
>
>Drop tanks are normally seen on the Imperial Gazelle-class Close Escort.
>While attached the ship had performance characteristics of 4G acceleration and
>Jump-4.  The tanks could be drained and dropped to give a single Jump-5 (due
>to reduced displacement).  Until new tanks are attached the Gazelle's
>acceleration jumps to 5G but there is only sufficient internal fuel tankage
>for Jump-2.

This brings up an interesting question.  If the Gazelle is basicly a 300
ton ship with 100 ton droptanks, then why does it have 4 hardpoints?
Following the logic, I could _design_ a ship to use droptanks for the extra
displacement, and thus, extra hardpoints.  Then, to keep the performance
where I want it, never use the tanks and benefit from the extra hardpoints.

Kurt Feltenberger

“We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a
habit.”
- --- Aristotle ---

mailto:kurt@blazenet.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 11:37:11 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Re: Traveller * Rules tweaking

Jason Kemp wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
I like the concept of Jump capacity being based on drive type versus 
size of vessel.  That fits the feel of the Jump Field it produces 
being consistent with energy output, but having differing effects 
based on the volume that is being moved.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
One fringe benefit of the original CT (pre-HG) ship construction
rules was that, at least some of the time, larger ships would be
slower. Fewer G's, lower jump capability. You could make a
6G Jump-6 ship at 1000 or 2000 tons, but could only pull
4G/J4 at 4000tns, 2G/J2 at 5000tns (IIRC, my book is at home).

Therefore, in a universe where 5ktns was as big as jump-capable
ships got, you wouldn't see the biggest ships being as nimble as
the smallest fighters. You'd see smaller cruisers and destroyers
jumping twice as far as the lumbering battleships - the line of
battle would take longer to move, both tactically and strategically,
than the screening elements and recon forces.

There's a feel there that I find appealing, and I've seriously considered
a hybrid CT/HG ship construction system - I've even got some handwave
ideas to explain it. 

I'd sure miss the 60ktn Azhanti High Lightning, though... <G>

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 11:18:02 -0600
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: Grav tank configs (Back on Topic)

>The thing is, in the Traveller style TL10+ battlefield, *any* emissions and
>*any* radar target is vulnerable to attack.  It's almost more logical for
>the atttack craft to have *no* active sensors and just act as a weapons
>platform for "scouts" with the sensors that are out of reach (orbital),
>undetectable, or expendable.


Hmm. What's the range on a densitometer? I wonder if these could be used to
provide targetting data. This would be a double-edged sword for pop-up
attackers, I suppose ...

Your right. Assuming orbital spotting were out (due to lack of superiority,
atmospheric obstruction, or whatever) expendable scouts would be the way to
go -- remote sensor drones and the like.


>The narrow profile would be logical if it weren't for the massive armor
>requirements implied in Traveller style military ground combat. [...]
>This requires several centimeters of superdense. The tank-like
>shape is a more efficient shape for this,


I do not understand why a tank-like shape is more efficient for putting on
several centimeters of superdense than a narrow-profile shape. I can see it
adding several centimeters to either side, but that's about it (unless you
were to angle the armor -- but then that would be a questionable idea on an
airborne vehicle.

Do you have some time to explain this to me?


>fixed main armament means you need to be travelling directly at the target
>to fire on it.  That can be a disadvantage.


Well, facing the target, anyway. I understand your point though. Assuming
pop-up attacks, this is not a big deal, but if it were an fast attack run
it could make a difference. However, I wonder how controllable a turreted
vehicle with a Big Honkin' Barrel (tm) would be at speed in atmosphere if
it were pointed anywhere but in an aerodynamically efficient direction. The
Trepida's turret pointed to either side of the axis of travel would cause
an awful lot of drag.

Of course, Traveller being a game and all, it's probably goofy to worry
about this. The Trepida *looks* kewl. :-)

[snip of interesting-sounding designs]

>Note that Striker's main form of attack for grav vehicles was the "popup"
>attack, quite similar to the way an attack helo works; a tank would pop up
>suddenly and fire at its target, returning to NOE altitude quickly to avoid
>counterfire.


I had figured that (I hope to get a hold of a copy of Striker soon). What,
in your opinion, would be the point of a ventral main-armament (such as
that on Rob's design) in such a pop-up attack? You probably wouldn't use it
at all, unless you wanted to expose yourself fully to counterfire. I'd
rather just pop up enough to fire over the obstruction with the turret. I
am assuming grav-tech NOE avionics would be capable of this type of
manuevering quite easily, of course.

Actually, in thinking about it, I wonder how useful a ventral main turret
would be overall. Assuming it's not a ball turret, you would have a limited
firing arc below you, and since you are sticking close to the ground anyway
you could probably just go low to hit such low-lying targets with your
dorsal main gun. Maybe you'd have to tilt the vehicle a bit. I am also
thinking that you might be able to roll a grav vehicle quite easily (thus
making the dorsal turret a ventral turret). I'd probably save the expense
(and mass/volume). I am interested in why you think a ventral turret would
be worth the trouble.

Ciao,

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:14:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Long range fire

William F. Hostman writes:
> someone asked about long range fire in traveller. The question is not how
> accurately can we aim the weapons, buit can we predict where the target
> will be when that packet of energy arrives.
> 
> Assuming some significant time lag, and dozens of m/sec, firing solutions
> can get interesting to figure.
> 
> Required shots to assure 1 hit: (Pi * ( (Tls + Tlw) * A)^2) / Acs
> assumes continuous beams.
> Tls = Time Lag (one way) in seconds, of sensor system
> Tlw = time lag (one way) for weapon system.
> A = mps accelleration maximum
> Acs = Area, cross-sectional, in square meters (How much area, in m2, the
> shillouette has, or rougly 1/6 the Surface Area) [Acs also has an upper
> limit of longest dimension squared...]

Actually, it's more on the lines of (Pi) * ((Tls+Tlw) * (Tvc) * (.5 A))^2 /
Acs, where terms are mostly as above, and Tvc is the length of time between
changes in vector of acceleration, assuming a random-walk evasion pattern, and
to be useful should probably not exceed Tls+Tlw/2 (if it exceeds Tls+Tlw
evasion is ineffective).
Thus, for a KKM with 20G (200 m/s) evasion (not really that difficult, I
managed to design a 50G HePLAR missile earlier for about $60k, though there's
large quantities of horribly vague and poorly edited rules in FF&S2 so I'm not
sure how legal it is) and a cross-section of about 0.2 meters, assuming .1 ls
range, Tls=Tlw=Tvc=0.1, we get an area of 12.5 square meters and about 60 shots
required for a hit, though a hit is probable on a lesser number of shots. 
Unfortunately, once you actually get within the same hex as your target evasion
ceases to be relevant fairly quickly; at that point it's necessary to be able
to survive point defense fire for whatever length of time is required to cross
that distance.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:25:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
Subject: Creative use of Denitometers

On Fri, 6 Nov 1998, Joseph R. Dietrich wrote:

> Hmm. What's the range on a densitometer? I wonder if these could be used to
> provide targetting data. This would be a double-edged sword for pop-up
> attackers, I suppose ...

I recently had my players do something creative. The ship was grounded on
a primitive planet, and for various reasons they couldn't take off right
then, but they wanted to get the tanks refuelled asap. So the engineer
takes his densitometer and starts checking for groundwater, rolls a
spectacular success, and along with the group archaeologist's knowledge of
geology, managed to find the water table. He then rigs up a drill and
proceeds to sink a well and pump assembly to fill the tanks without moving
the ship.

He joked that he had just upgraded the planet's starport from X to D
(unrefined fuel available)!

Ben

- --
Brannon (Ben) Boren
brannonb@blarg.net
http://www.solaria.net/brannonb/index.html
                                             

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 09:52:27 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Using cargo holds for passengers

Peter H. Brenton wrote:
> 
> Assumptions; A Cargo Bay can be used as a bunkroom, with a few easily
> stored accoutrements.  Crew and passenger staterooms can be tripled or even
> quadrupled for short periods of time, say the amount of time to transit to
> jump point (20-40 hours usually).  A collapsable tank fills a cargo bay
> until that tank is empty, at which point it can be stored in roughly 1% of
> the previously occupied space.
> 
> So I can bring quite a few steerage passengers or troops by converting my
> cargo bay cum fuel bladders into a bunkroom just after entering jump.  This
> capacity is limited only by how many people I can "cram" into the existing
> passenger/crew spaces for the period leading up to jump, say about 4 times
> the usual capacity (thats about 1 person per ton), and if I have other
> 'auxiliary' spaces (gymnasium, dinig salon) I can cram 1 more per ton into
> those spaces for short periods.

Well, no. A fuel bladder requires no special fittings, save for a hookup to
either the fuel tanks or the drives.

IMTU, cargo holds are routinely depressurized during jump, to cut costs. A
depressurized cargo hold requires no fresh air vents, no pest control, and no
sterilization procedures. In combat, the contents are not subject to explosive
decompression if the hold is hit.

In order to put live (i.e. non-low-berth) passengers in there, you need to
retrofit plumbing fixtures, air circulation, and other life support essentials.
This means that there are extra costs involved.

If my players wanted to do that, I'd charge them based on the cost of a standard
stateroom. For example, if they wanted to put four middle passengers in the
hold, they'd pay whatever two staterooms cost.

If they didn't pay that, and crammed people into hallways, I'd start rolling for
life support failure.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1107
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Traveller-digest      Friday, November 6 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 1108



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Gunnery Crew (was re: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1080) 
Re: Creative use of Denitometers 
Re: What are drop tanks? Additional Questions
Re: Creative use of Denitometers 
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1103
Re: Phooey on canon
Re: Phooey on canon!
Re: What are drop tanks? Additional Questions
What are drop tanks? Additional Questions
Re: aircraft losses (drifting back on-topic)
Re: aircraft losses
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1103
re: Jump Range Limits By TL
Advance Warning
Re: New Poster and GURPS: Traveller
Re: New Poster and GURPS: Traveller
re: Jump Range Limits By TL
Re: New Poster and GURPS: Traveller
Re: Grav tank configs (Back on Topic)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:27:38 -0800
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Re: Gunnery Crew (was re: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1080) 

>>What are some of the ways that your PCs have found to pass the time in
>>jumpspace?
>
>I promised not to ask, if they promised to do it where the passengers
>couldn't see :-)


ROFL!!  8^D
(wiping the Mt. Dew off the computer screen...again)

douglas

E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller
IMTU tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls 
The early bird gets the worm, BUT
   the second mouse gets the cheese!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 12:43:20 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Creative use of Denitometers 

> I recently had my players do something creative. The ship was grounded on
> a primitive planet, and for various reasons they couldn't take off right
> then, but they wanted to get the tanks refuelled asap. So the engineer
> takes his densitometer and starts checking for groundwater, rolls a
> spectacular success, and along with the group archaeologist's knowledge of
> geology, managed to find the water table. He then rigs up a drill and
> proceeds to sink a well and pump assembly to fill the tanks without moving
> the ship.
> 
> He joked that he had just upgraded the planet's starport from X to D
> (unrefined fuel available)!

X to E.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:01:08 -0800
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Re: What are drop tanks? Additional Questions

>Assumptions; A Cargo Bay can be used as a bunkroom, with a few easily
>stored accoutrements.  Crew and passenger staterooms can be tripled or even
>quadrupled for short periods of time, say the amount of time to transit to
>jump point (20-40 hours usually).  A collapsable tank fills a cargo bay
>until that tank is empty, at which point it can be stored in roughly 1% of
>the previously occupied space.

I love assumptions.  I agree with the collapsable tank.  However, I think
that a High Passenger might be more than a tad put out that he/she is
sharing their quarters - for however short a period - with the riff-raff.
Additionally, who is building the quarters in the cargo bay?  Are you
carrying that many supercargo personnel or do you expect the steerage
passengers to do it?  Remember, even tho' there are no duties specified
during jump, the engineering staff (usually the people with the mechanical
skill that would be required) should be quite busy during the first hours
after you enter Jump.

Do you really want people who are so desparate as to travel in this manner
to be left in your *cargo* bay for a week?  Don't you think the people who
are paying for the cargo to arrive *intact* may have something to say about
this?  How about the custom's inspectors when they start checking the cargo
seals?

>
>So I can bring quite a few steerage passengers or troops by converting my
>cargo bay cum fuel bladders into a bunkroom just after entering jump.  This
>capacity is limited only by how many people I can "cram" into the existing
>passenger/crew spaces for the period leading up to jump, say about 4 times
>the usual capacity (thats about 1 person per ton), and if I have other
>'auxiliary' spaces (gymnasium, dinig salon) I can cram 1 more per ton into
>those spaces for short periods.

IMTU a stateroom must be able to maintain pressure, separate from the rest
of the ship, for a period sufficient for a sophont to have a reasonable
chance at donning a pressure suit, should the ship's hull integrity be
breached.

IMTU, a merchant carrying passengers must be able to supply a method of
emergency egress (vacc suit, seat on a shuttle, life ball) for each sophont
carried as a passenger.

IMTU cargo bays may be supplied with such basics as power, light, heat and
pressure - but there are only limited points where water is available (for
cargo bay washdowns) and drainage (into the bilge) or normal air circulation
(live cargo is carried in cargo pods with life support modules).  By the
very size of the cargo bay, I would prefer to keep it evacuated in transit -
the ship's emergency air reserves (enough pressure to air the ship 1.5
times) does not include the cargo bay.  (hmmm...the pressure to fill the
cargo bay so that work can be preformed during jump *is* the emergency air
reserve??)

IMTU the only use of the cargo bay for sophont travel is by the use of
specially designed low berths - these are basically low berths built into a
cargo pod, require a power hookup but have a battery backup for transit
between storage points and the cargo bays, and allow for *long* trips to be
made.  If you crammed a load of passengers into your cargo bay, under any
conditions save emergencies, and were boarded for a INS 'health and welfare'
inspection - you could expect to finish your cruise in the brig of a INS
destroyer!

>
>Ok, could someone please poke holes in this logic?  I don't really think
>players should be doing this.

poke, poke   :)


Having said all that, put your cargo bay into 0-G, rig a series of nets,
strap the steerage scum to the nets and pump 'em full of fast drug.

douglas

E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller
IMTU tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls
The early bird gets the worm, BUT
   the second mouse gets the cheese!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:04:04 -0800
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Re: Creative use of Denitometers 

>
>X to E.
>


E is just a cleared spot of bedrock.
D has unrefined fuel available.

by that definition, it's a D.

E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller
IMTU tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls 
The early bird gets the worm, BUT
   the second mouse gets the cheese!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 09:56:52 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1103

At 08:29 PM 11/5/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Ah, but you've never seen _Ground Support_ until you've seen armor chewed
>into splinters by an A-10's 30 mike-mike...

"When I entered Kuwait I had 48 T-72s.  After a month of air attacks I had
43.  After an hour against the M1, I had none."  Captured Iraqi Battalion
Commander.


>(Too many years as a 19E (M-60 Patton Tanker) are showing... 

11B, Warsaw Pact Ammo Collection Specialist.
- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+-------------------------------------+
| "Some days, you just can't get rid  |
|  of a bomb!"                        |
|     -Adam West, the REAL Batman     |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:11:32 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Phooey on canon

>I think Marc and Loren should be able to get around that problem.

<problem in this case being the availability of "canon" Traveller materials>

Time will tell on this point I guess.

>If you could find out about it by asking for feedback on the TML but didn't,
>you didn't bother enough IMO.


You'll also have to assume, at one point, that if Traveller wins back some
popularity then not all writers will find their way onto this list.

>>Many bits of canon are already self-contradicting. To many people, a
>>majority of the Traveller universe is very, very unlikely.
>
>Yes, and that's why I advocate keeping some canon and adjusting other
canon.


In a broad sense, what to keep and what to revise?

>I think you are mistaken. I believe that GURPS:Lensman was a huge succes, and
>that universe assumed that the chip was never invented.


It was also a well established universe through novels, cartoons, and
indirectly through comic books based on it (Green Lantern and the Green
Lantern Corps). Here you've got something that has an established fanbase
already that some people are already familiar with.

Basically, you're not going to have that same luxury with Traveller.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:15:40 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Phooey on canon!

Rob Prior said:

>We agree, then. Good.

<concerning the level of "canon">

It looks that way.

>While altering the established background makes work for the players who
>have kept the game alive. A paradox?


Yes, and a particularly nasty one at that.

>Possibly we need a new universe. We have the Classic universe, with the
>classic assumptions and SF feel. We then create a new, revised universe
>that updated the SF while staying as close as possible to the older
>universe. People with established campaigns could either stay in the old
>universe or move to the new one, as the chose. Both would be "official",
>and everyone would be happy. Careful writers would include conversion info
>so that referees could run their adventures in either universe.


This sounds like one of the best ideas that I've heard concerning canon in
quite awhile. I like the sound of it.

>Judgement call here. Just because someone declares "spoz" the "worst drug
>menace facing Imperial society" doesn't mean that all drug smuggling
>adventures have to deal in spoz. After all, a lot that's written as "fact"
>is more properly called "convention" or "opinion".


True enough.

>I've got it, and DGP gave me permission to copy at no profit. Roger has
>never actually revoked that permission, so as far as I know it still
>stands. (And seeing as Roger ceased communicating with me as soon as I
>inquired about the money DGP owes me, it's unlikely he'll revoke it.)
>
>Mind you, I also don't know if the authors of the articles got paid. If
>they didn't, I would figure that they own the copyright to their articles
>(morally if not legally). I'll try to post an authors list this weekend so
>you can contact them and get permission.



That sounds good, I'd appreciate it muchly.

Chris Seamans ( semo@pil.net )

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 11:20:34 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: What are drop tanks? Additional Questions

"Peter H. Brenton" wrote:

> So I can bring quite a few steerage passengers or troops by converting my
> cargo bay cum fuel bladders into a bunkroom just after entering jump.  This
> capacity is limited only by how many people I can "cram" into the existing
> passenger/crew spaces for the period leading up to jump, say about 4 times
> the usual capacity (thats about 1 person per ton), and if I have other
> 'auxiliary' spaces (gymnasium, dinig salon) I can cram 1 more per ton into
> those spaces for short periods.
> 
> Ok, could someone please poke holes in this logic?  I don't really think
> players should be doing this.

Two words: Life Support.

Life support for ships is based on a normal passenger complement, if you
seriously raise that number, you're gonna start running into serious
problems...what do you do when your air runs out ...and you're still in
Jump space...

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:49:14 -0500
From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
Subject: What are drop tanks? Additional Questions

- ------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:21:09 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: What are drop tanks? Additional Questions
Chris Ruhl Said;
>In a message dated 11/5/98 10:05:07 PM Pacific Standard Time,
stilleon@io.com
>writes:
>
>> I've heard of them on the list and they are mentioned in Behind the Claw
for
>>  GURPS- but what are they? How do they work? Did I miss something in the
>>  GURPS stuff that explains them?
>age
>for Jump-2.
Just to make it explicitly clear; The tanks are drained and dropped
*before* the ship enters jump.  The tanks can then be reclaimed at the
origin system if desired/planned for.
**************
AFAIK this was delebetatly left out of GT, as the Fuel needs to be used
during jump.  allowing the drop tanks to be used as presented on the
Gazelle opens up a whole bag of worms.

Also IIRC the Gazelle di\esign itself is broken, it has 4 turrets and is
only 300 Dtons.

This brings up a questions which was nibbled around the edges in last
night's session.
Assumptions; A Cargo Bay can be used as a bunkroom,

So I can bring quite a few steerage passengers or troops by converting my
cargo bay cum fuel bladders into a bunkroom just after entering jump.  This
capacity is limited only by how many people I can "cram" into the existing
passenger/crew spaces for the period leading up to jump, say about 4 times
the usual capacity (thats about 1 person per ton), and if I have other
'auxiliary' spaces (gymnasium, dinig salon) I can cram 1 more per ton into
those spaces for short periods.
************
well if you are playing GT, there is only life support for two per
stateroom....sure you can fit them all aboard, but how long before they
kill each other for the last breath of oxy?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 18:07:49 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: aircraft losses (drifting back on-topic)

Black ICE <wombat@premier.net> wrote:

>Sounds similar in principle, if not in execution, to the TACIT RAINBOW
>project I read about in *unclassified* sources.  A loitering
>anti-radiation missile.  _Deeply_ unpleasant!

ISTR that the RAF used the Gulf to test out a parachute/loitering ARM? I
think it was parachute based, but it's a while since I read about it.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 18:03:29 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: aircraft losses

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:

>Sounds like a great job for a cruise missile or for a remote piloted
>drone. You crash the thing into the runway at the end of the run.

I believe that was the evolution planned for the JP233 - basically putting
it on a missile the Tornado fired , as opposed to the Tornado being a
piloted missile.

I don't know if it is in service yet, or if it ever got completed...

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 18:05:57 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1103

William Barnett-Lewis <wlewis@mailbag.com> wrote:

Dom wrote>> You don't really get to understand low and fast until you see a
Tornado go
>> down a valley below you.

<snip>

>Ah, but you've never seen _Ground Support_ until you've seen armor chewed into
>splinters by an A-10's 30 mike-mike...

I said low and fast, not low, slow and very, very prickly. A-10's are great...

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 18:23:46 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Jump Range Limits By TL

Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU> wrote:
>Tech level with respect to letter-coded drives is mentioned in CT Book3,
>when they present us with a tech level table. Weapons, transportation,
>medicine, power generation and _DRIVES_ are all presented with what
>tech  level they become available at. So you _can_ state what tech level
>a Jump-A drive is available at (TL9, btw).


Also....

shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson) wrote:
>>Tech level is not mentioned in the tables at all with respect to drives. (*)
>
>  I've got it in B:3 (2ed), p. 15; TL 9 is A-D, 10 is E-H, ... 14 is R-U,
>and TL 15 is "all drives". Of no use once B:5 comes out, really.

Okay, I concede the point ;-) - Canon changed with Bk5, then MT reinforced
it....

(mutter mutter, stupid *^%^$ place to put the Starships Drive TLs, mutter,
mutter)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 19:13:31 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Advance Warning

Hi,

You may see my website http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ disappear for a
while over the next week. This is mainly an issue if you want access to Rob
Prior's excellent Software (Infini-V, QSDS, and IGS2) for T4.

Whilst my site is out of commission you may be able to get Rob's software
through http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/RPS.html directly as I will try and
leave this page up throughout.

Additionally, there may be some problems accessing BITS website which IIRC
is http://www.BITS.org.uk/ as this is being moved from Dave Burden's ISP to
my ISP as Dave has handed over the joys of hosting the site to me due to
pressures of real life (tm). However, the site should soon be fully
functional through the above address even though it is at U-net.

Apologies for any inconvenience.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 21:23:35 +0200 (EET)
From: Eppu Tuominen <eptitu@utu.fi>
Subject: Re: New Poster and GURPS: Traveller

On Fri, 6 Nov 1998, Brandon Quina wrote:
 
> 	#2:  In the non-alternate version of Traveller, the
> AI Virus is released some 10 years from the given campaign date
> in the New Era.  Is it perhaps possible that the Imperium has
> access to the virus??  Or atleast some testing and research, still
> with alot of work left before its ready to be implemented. 

Strictly GM's option, as is any TNE material when using GT , but FYI:
Survival Margin (PP. 69-70) mentions the SDG-313F pseudo-AI ship IFF 
system, based on the same Cymbeline silicon entities as the later virus.
The research for this system was completed in 1086imp., and became
mandatory equipment on all starships operating within the Imperial
boundaries, after the passage of the 12th Standard Data Systems Law in
1088imp.
 Since the these events happened well before the GT timeline starts
diverging from the older products, introducing the SDG-313F system should
be basically quite easy. What potential effect they would have on the
development of the imperium in long term is anybody's guess.
 Another thought in the same vein; What other uses, besides doomsday
weapons, might a peaceful society find for the Cymbeline entities?
Mega-scale AI research, anyone?

- ------------
Eppu Tuominen
eptitu@utu.fi
- -------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 14:43:02 -0500
From: Brandon Quina <lore@tmgbbs.com>
Subject: Re: New Poster and GURPS: Traveller

> Actually, Virus got out accidentally, when Dulinor's forces raided the
> research station where it was being worked on. Virus was clearly an
> unfinished weapon. Working with it under cotrolled conditions surely
> showed its flaws as a weapon. (All it was supposed to do was take over
> ships, shut them down and wait for the Imperial forces to arrive. It
> was intended to disable ships without destroying them, letting the
> other side recover them and use them against the enemy.)

	I dont think that Virus would work very well as a weapon,
though.  It's not just a tool, a thing to be used.  It's a lifeform;
it's just as unpredictable as any other enslaved lifeform.

 
> What you do with _that_ however, is up to you. From later references,
> it is very clear that the Imperium clamped down hard on knowledge of
> the Cymbelne chips, but that some knowledge was out there, including
> one starship, if the scenario is played out as in Adv.13. The PC's
> have a ship with an AI computer after that.

	I'm running a game, here at home, on Terra, post Rim-war.  :)  A
political/espionage type game.  So I was thinking that I just might
plug it in around here, as some kind of adventure.  No way I'd let it
actually get out and kill everything;  but it could be a cool little
adventure atleast.  ;)




- -- 
Brandon,

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 14:39:18 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Jump Range Limits By TL

SD Mooney wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Okay, I concede the point ;-) - Canon changed with Bk5, then MT reinforced
it....

(mutter mutter, stupid *^%^$ place to put the Starships Drive TLs, mutter,
mutter)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
It may be that for "off the shelf" drives and computers (at least within
the Imperium) Tech Level didn't matter as much. It takes a year or
three to build a starship, maybe during that time they can ship
in a standard Jump-X core from the next subsector over, even if the
local class-A Starport is only TL10.

_Kinunir_ (Adventure 1) had General Shipyards at Regina building
TL15 Battlecruisers (IIRC), Regina is only TL12 - so there may be
some canon support for this.

If you're an independent world, or working custom stuff, this probably
wouldn't apply.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 14:43:38 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Re: New Poster and GURPS: Traveller

Eppu Tuominen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
 Another thought in the same vein; What other uses, besides doomsday
weapons, might a peaceful society find for the Cymbeline entities?
Mega-scale AI research, anyone?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
According to some schools of thought, any truly successful AI
research will be a doomsday scenario, at least for us - same way
we were a doomsday scenario for Neandertals.

GURPS Reign of Steel, anyone?

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 15:02:47 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Grav tank configs (Back on Topic)

>Hmm. What's the range on a densitometer? I wonder if these could be used to
>provide targetting data. This would be a double-edged sword for pop-up
>attackers, I suppose ...

As a matter of fact, Densiometers have a rating in penetration, not range.
Effectiveness in space combat is reduced by -1 for each 25,000km square, so
range, in terms of planetary scale combat, is not limited.

At TL15 a 1km Hipen densimeter takes up 7kl and costs 1.5Mcr (power and
weight are not excessive).  Not "expendable" in terms of cost, but
certainly very capable from far away (orbit) and it can be mounted in a
relatively small vehicle.  Also, it can 'see' through up to 1km (less a
bit) of intervening matter I would suppose.

>>The narrow profile would be logical if it weren't for the massive armor
>>requirements implied in Traveller style military ground combat. [...]
>>This requires several centimeters of superdense. The tank-like
>>shape is a more efficient shape for this,
>
>I do not understand why a tank-like shape is more efficient for putting on
>several centimeters of superdense than a narrow-profile shape. I can see it
>adding several centimeters to either side, but that's about it (unless you
>were to angle the armor -- but then that would be a questionable idea on an
>airborne vehicle.
>
>Do you have some time to explain this to me?

Ok, this is my opinion and you are, of course, welcome to disagree.  I am
no expert, just a self-educated interested amateur, but here goes;

Armor is more than a layer of material.  Armor is reflected in the entire
shape, size, and structural integrity of the vessel or vehicle and the
whole shape must be considered when designing armor.

A vehicle is designed to be attacked from a particular direction.
Inevitably, someone develops a way to attack vehicles from the most
vulnerable direction (top-down attack missiles like the Milan are prime
examples).  A vehicle is also designed to be most effective against the
most dangerous and likely form of attack.

Aircraft are not usually armored.  They are designed with redundant systems
for survivability, but armor is generally only around the pilot, engines,
etc.  Most aircraft components (wings, tail) need to be thinly covered or
uncovered to be effective.  Form is a matter of aerodynamic function, not
protection, although some compromises (esp. the AH-1's thin shape) are made.

Tanks are designed for protection first and foremost.  The angled hull
armor is effective not only for its thickness, but the ability to deflect
sabot rounds and place a greater profile of armor in its path.  Tanks today
are deigned to present one face to the most likely threat direction, but
with good protection elsewhere.

So, Next assumptions;

1. Energy weapons are reduced in effectiveness when hitting angled armor
plate - the energy is distributed over more square centimeters of armored
surface.

2. Grav Tanks and their kin travel at Nape-of-Earth, and attack from
distances greater than 5km.  So the majority of direct fire attacks will
impact the sides, front and rear of the vehicle, not the top or the bottom.

3. Point Defense weapons render most, but not all, missiles and chemically
propelled rounds ineffective.  Therefore the primary perceived threat to a
grav tank is a laser, plasma or fusion weapon.

4. The best defense against fusion weapons, aside from not being shot by
them, is armor, and lots of it.

Those are my principles.  Now for the theory.

The Helo shape you are talking about is basically a cigar shape with tall
'sides'.   Profile is very small from directly in front and in back, and
long and narrow from above and below.  From the sides, however, this shape
is most vulnerable.  For a fast-mover vs. slow movers this is perfect,
since you expect to be in and out quickly and the side-on shot will have to
be quick and have lots of 'lead', while a head-on or tail-on shot needs to
be very precise.

For a vehicle that moves more slowly (NOE speed at TL15 is only 190kph)
there needs to be more side protection, and less top and bottom protection.
This craft is not making passing attacks (although it can), its going up
against other grav tanks in a game of hide-manuver-popup&shoot-hide again.
it is difficult to predict which face will take the hit - except that it is
unlikely to be attacked from above or below.  Since everyone will be
hugging the terrain it is pretty much a 2D battlespace.

So my preferred shape is a saucer shape.  Compromising to the need for
speed, it is a shape longer than it is wide.  The hull tapers to relatively
sharp angles where the top deck meets the bottom deck such that a side-on
hit will spread itself across many square centimeters of hull.  The turret
fairs into the deck closely for the same reason.  The profile is quite
short, but wide, from every cardinal direction, but from above and below it
is a big target.

It's not a fast attack craft.  Its a take your shot and give one back craft.

>>fixed main armament means you need to be travelling directly at the target
>>to fire on it.  That can be a disadvantage.
>
>[snip]However, I wonder how controllable a turreted
>vehicle with a Big Honkin' Barrel (tm) would be at speed in atmosphere if
>it were pointed anywhere but in an aerodynamically efficient direction. The
>Trepida's turret pointed to either side of the axis of travel would cause
>an awful lot of drag.

If the Trepida were in battle, according to my vision, it would not be
travelling at its Mach 7+ top speed.  It would be creeping along at its
190kph NOE speed.  The high speed is for transit to and from the
battlefield and/or orbit.

A trainable main gun means you can be accellerating towards cover while
firing.  In a battle of manuver, it provides more options.

>Of course, Traveller being a game and all, it's probably goofy to worry
>about this. The Trepida *looks* kewl. :-)

Of course, that's the main reason.  It's nice to have a good argument to
back it up though.

>>Note that Striker's main form of attack for grav vehicles was the "popup"
>>attack[snip]
>
>I had figured that (I hope to get a hold of a copy of Striker soon). What,
>in your opinion, would be the point of a ventral main-armament (such as
>that on Rob's design) in such a pop-up attack? You probably wouldn't use it
>at all, unless you wanted to expose yourself fully to counterfire.[snip]

I'm not sure what I was thinking at the time other than it would look cool.
If you did have a second main weapon you could (if you had a full power
plant) engage multiple targets.  As you point out, though, you would be
fully exposed to counterfire.  Another advantege is that if one turret were
damaged you would not be out of the battle.  The obvious ability to attack
ground targets without "tilting" is not terribly significant.

I also couldn't find the vehicle just now when I went looking.  considering
how many vehicle designs have been made available on the web, in TMl posts,
and in other forms, I'm not suprised, and it may not have been one of Rob's
at all.

>Actually, in thinking about it, I wonder how useful a ventral main turret
>would be overall. Assuming it's not a ball turret, you would have a limited
>firing arc below you, and since you are sticking close to the ground anyway
>you could probably just go low to hit such low-lying targets with your
>dorsal main gun.[snip]

I have always assumed that the turrets on Grav Vehicles can elevate and
depress fairly far; perhaps +45 to -5 - despite their appearance.

Dorsal and ventral turrets would allow you to engage targets which would
"outflank" a single turret craft when it is committed to a manuver.  If I
can tempt your vehicle into facing and tilting toward one direction, a
second vehicle of mine could get in an unreturned shot - perhaps even on
deck or belly armor.  A second weapon would discourage such a manuver,
although at the cost of weapon strength.

Point defense weapons need 360 x 360 coverage.  You never know where a
missile might pop up from, and you don;'t always have the luxury of
"rolling" to bring your PD weapons to bear.

Infantry against tanks?  sure, all you need to do is be in the right place
- - directly below the grav tank, where the armor is thinnest and the angle
for your penetrator the best.  Oh, and its best to be within 50 meters so
the point defense doesnt have time to slew around and blow your anti-tank
missile up.  In other words, you need to shoot it down right on top of your
own position.  Preferably when you're not there.

Pete


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1108
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Traveller-digest      Friday, November 6 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 1109



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: New Poster and GURPS: Traveller
Re: What are drop tanks? Additional Questions
Re: New Poster and GURPS: Traveller
Re: New Poster and GURPS: Traveller
Re: Nobles
Re: What are drop tanks? Additional Questions
Tacit Rainbow
Re: New Poster and GURPS: Traveller
Re: What are drop tanks? Additional Questions
Re: What are drop tanks? Additional Questions
Re: What are drop tanks? Additional Questions
Re: What are drop tanks? Additional Questions
Re: Grav Tank Configs
Re: New Poster and GURPS: Traveller
Re Trademarks

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 15:11:12 -0500
From: Brandon Quina <lore@tmgbbs.com>
Subject: Re: New Poster and GURPS: Traveller

> Let's see if I can help you out. I think I might be able to. The
> following information is paraphrased from "Classic" Traveller
> "Supplement 11: Library Data (N-Z)". The same information is also
> located in the MegaTraveller "Imperial Encyclopedia".

Intresting.  I imagine there's alot more information in those book
than is located in the 62 pages of Library Data in Chapter 2 of GURPS:
Traveller.  Shame I can't get ahold of them;  they'd no doubt be a
very intresting read and probally useful too.  No local book stores that
carry anything that's not in print--  or atleast, not any traveller
stuff thats not in print.  

 
> ***Knight: Lowest of the noble ranks, awarded as an honorific rank in
> recognition for achievement or service. There are many different
> orders of knighthood, depending on the achievement or service attained
> or performed.  I'm going to list a couple, but there are many more:

Thank you.  That's about what I was imaging.  They don't actually
govern land, its basically like the real knighthoods.  They'll get
abit more respect from the common folk, and abit more powers that
they're allowed to use for the Imperium.  In exchange, they're now
the vassals of their lord, and have the normal feudal responcibilitys
that they have to own up too..

 
> Furthermore, each domain also has an order named after it (Order of
> Vland, Order of Sol, Order of Antares, etc.). Titles are given out for
> these by the Archduke of the domain. The Order of Sylea is
> administered by the Emperor himself, the defacto Archduke of Sylea.

Intresting fact about the Emperor being the defacto Archduke of Sylea.
Makes alot of sense too.  The Orders of the Domains are a nice touch
too, definatly going to have to remember that.

 
> ***Baronet: Intermediate between first and second levels of noble
> rank.  Created usually by archdukes, although the Emperor can create
> them if he so desires.

	So they are something of the between level.  Higher in terms
of powers and responcibilitys than Knights, but not as tough as the
higher levels of authority.  Something like a 'Senior Knight'.  I'd
probally include them in the orders too;  they'd just be the high-up
men in the various knightly orders.


> ***Baron: Lowest level of nobility accorded membership in the peerage.
> In layman's terms, the lowest rank a noble can attain and be viewed as
> a noble by other nobles. A person awarded the rank of baron usually
> gets a small fief of land, not often greater than 100 square
> kilometers.

	Would would that fief be, and where?  As I understood it,
most worlds are pretty much left to their own devices.  I'd imagine
only areas of intrest to the Imperium would have a baron.  Starports,
naval bases, depots, science research stations, and other small
installations and locations that are of intrest.
 

> ***Marquis: A marquis is associated with a single world (generally a
> large or important one with a Class A or B Starport).

	So?  They rule the worlds that the Imperium want to govern
directly?  Is it a special thing, or are all worlds given Marquis
who are pretty much free to govern the world as they wish within
certain limits??  I imagine, from the opinions of others on the list,
that a cut and dry answer isn't given anywhere...


> That should pretty much cover most of the bases, I think. Hope that
> helps.

Yes, alot.  Thanks.
 



- -- 
Brandon,

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 15:25:44 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: What are drop tanks? Additional Questions

>[snip]I think
>that a High Passenger might be more than a tad put out that he/she is
>sharing their quarters

Of course.  But this is not the situation.

>who is building the quarters in the cargo bay?[snip]
> ...the engineering staff (usually the people with the mechanical
>skill that would be required) should be quite busy during the first hours
>after you enter Jump.

Perhaps I am unclear.  "Assembling Quarters" in this case means throwing
down a few rugs, putting some "Bunks, Metal, Standard Size" together,
moving the chemical toilet and portable washing sink into the corner
withsome breakdown partitions here and there fore privacy.

>Don't you think the people who
>are paying for the cargo to arrive *intact* may have something to say about
>this?  How about the custom's inspectors when they start checking the cargo
>seals?

The cargo bay in question would be otherwise empty.  It just had a fuel
tank in it afterall.

>IMTU a stateroom must be able...[snip]
IMTU it does not.

>IMTU, a merchant carrying passengers must be able to supply a method of
>emergency egress (vacc suit, seat on a shuttle, life ball) for each sophont
>carried as a passenger.

These aren't passengers, they are employees, and what keeps them from
having vacc suits handy?

>[snip]...but there are only limited points where water is available (for
>cargo bay washdowns) and drainage (into the bilge) or normal air circulation
>(live cargo is carried in cargo pods with life support modules).

This is not relevant.  One only needs a single source of water, the basics
can be rigged from standard field equipment.  IMTU you pay for life support
based on the whole volume of the vessel, therefore the whole volume is
supplied.

> By the
>very size of the cargo bay, I would prefer to keep it evacuated in transit -
>the ship's emergency air reserves (enough pressure to air the ship 1.5
>times) does not include the cargo bay.

IMTU you pay for life support based on the whole volume of the vessel,
therefore the whole volume is supplied.  A "recharge" fee based on the
number of people onboard for that period is assessed to charge up the
system and provide replacement filters, etc, and this fee would apply.

>If you crammed a load of passengers into your cargo bay, under any
>conditions save emergencies, and were boarded for a INS 'health and welfare'
>inspection - you could expect to finish your cruise in the brig of a INS
>destroyer!

IMTU the Navy has better things to do than stop tramp freighters.
Starports authorities may be a different story, but their only recouse is
to turn a ship away.

>Having said all that, put your cargo bay into 0-G, rig a series of nets,
>strap the steerage scum to the nets and pump 'em full of fast drug.

Always an attractive option for the players, but how are they going to take
over the ship in that state?!?  (I know I know, very slowly).

Pete


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 15:27:15 -0500
From: Brandon Quina <lore@tmgbbs.com>
Subject: Re: New Poster and GURPS: Traveller

> 	Another thought in the same vein; What other uses, besides
> doomsday weapons, might a peaceful society find for the Cymbeline
> entities?  Mega-scale AI research, anyone?

I believe what it comes down to is that AI isn't a tool.  It is, for
all purposes, an entirely diffrent and unique lifeform.  Remember,
like someone else said, Virus wasn't supposed to be a doomsday weapon-
it was supposed to be the ultimate bloodless weapon.  Disable someones
equipment, then move in and take over.

However, it didn't turn out like that.  AI is dangerous because it,
quite literally, has a mind of its own.




- -- 
Brandon,

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 13:32:27 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: New Poster and GURPS: Traveller

Brandon Quina wrote:
>
>         I dont think that Virus would work very well as a weapon,
> though.  It's not just a tool, a thing to be used.  It's a lifeform;
> it's just as unpredictable as any other enslaved lifeform.
> 

'Twas exactly my point the last time we have a Virus flamewa^H^H^H^H
discussion around here a few months ago...that the biggest
misunderstanding that the imperials made regarding it was that it _was_
alive.

OTOH, we truly _don't_ know what they did and did not know about Virus.
There is one oblique entry in SM about a scientist escaping from
RSOmega, and getting killed before he could spread his warning. Some
sort of post mortem memory recovery (courtesy PlotHandwave Inc. ;-) got
some vague impression of a deadly virus; thus it was thought that what
they were working on was some super-bioweapon. There are other oblique
references to 'Lucan's mad superweapons' in SM. The actuak release
occured after al the scientist at RSOmega were killed in the defense of
the station. A hasty examination of the data in situ did not indicate
the problem, and Virus was beamed to Dulinor's entire fleet for later
examination at leisure.


- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 15:32:22 -0500
From: Brandon Quina <lore@tmgbbs.com>
Subject: Re: Nobles

> There are basically two themes - either that people are noble because
> they are important, or people are important because they are noble.

	I'd imagine it was a mixture of the two.  People who are
important are more likly to be nobles and those who are nobles are
more likly to be important.

 
> Things get sticky becuase the Imperium claims to rule not worlds, but
> the space between the worlds. Giving Imperial nobles land grants on
> member worlds, or taxation rights on the same, intrudes on this IMO.

	From what i've read, its more like the worlds are allowed to
do what they want--  within certain limits.  They have to pay taxxes
to the Imperium, follow certain 'High Laws', and such forth.  Thus, it
could be said that every world has its own noble--  but those nobles
all rule their worlds diffrently.

 


- -- 
Brandon,

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 15:36:51 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: What are drop tanks? Additional Questions

Aerron Winsor Said;
>well if you are playing GT, there is only life support for two per
>stateroom....sure you can fit them all aboard, but how long before they
>kill each other for the last breath of oxy?

Not playing GT.  Don't want to play GT.  But what keeps a GT player from
adding the LS capability in the form of portable life support
filters/equipment?  I'm sure there is a vacuum shelter in the
Gurpsyclopedia somewhere which can provide atmosphere and heat for a week.

For that matter, does a Gurps Traveller character have to suit up to go to
the cargo bay?  If not, then there is pressure, and if there is pressure,
the task of recycling the existing atmosphere becomes even easier.

Bruce Johnson said;
>Two words: Life Support.
>
>Life support for ships is based on a normal passenger complement, if you
>seriously raise that number, you're gonna start running into serious
>problems...what do you do when your air runs out ...and you're still in
>Jump space...

In Megatraveller (and some other versions IIRC) Life support is paid for
based on the number of passengers onboard for the time period.  I would
think that you just need to pay the additional fees and more of the same
'stuff' os brought on board to keep the life support apparatus operating
for the increased number of consumers.

Remember that in every design sequence (B3, HG, MT, FFS1&2) the volume of
the entire hull is used to calculate the life support requirements, not
just the stateroom/crew space volumes.  This implies that there is life
support service to the cargo bays, engineering spaces, even the fuel tanks,
and if there is service, people can be housed there.

Even if there were no life support, or inadequate life support, such
apparatus can be brought in, set up, and taken down afterwards.

Pete


Peter H. Brenton
MIT's Plasma Science and Fusion Center
(617) 253-3185
pbrenton@mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 20:55:00 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Tacit Rainbow

Now THAT is a weapon!

Pity they cancelled it. Must have worked or something.

MJD

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 16:08:18 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: New Poster and GURPS: Traveller

Brandon Quina said:

>Intresting.  I imagine there's alot more information in those book
>than is located in the 62 pages of Library Data in Chapter 2 of GURPS:
>Traveller.  Shame I can't get ahold of them;  they'd no doubt be a
>very intresting read and probally useful too.  No local book stores that
>carry anything that's not in print--  or atleast, not any traveller
>stuff thats not in print.


Actually, there is a hell of alot more stuff out there. Books and books
worth in fact. Different amounts are useful depending on how much work you
want to do in your campaign.

>Thank you.  That's about what I was imaging.  They don't actually


No problem. Glad I could help.

> So they are something of the between level.  Higher in terms
>of powers and responcibilitys than Knights, but not as tough as the
>higher levels of authority.  Something like a 'Senior Knight'.  I'd
>probally include them in the orders too;  they'd just be the high-up
>men in the various knightly orders.


That's a good way of looking at it. I'm not sure where they would fit in
with the nobility otherwise.

> Would would that fief be, and where?  As I understood it,
>most worlds are pretty much left to their own devices.  I'd imagine
>only areas of intrest to the Imperium would have a baron.  Starports,
>naval bases, depots, science research stations, and other small
>installations and locations that are of intrest.


The Imperium does rule some worlds, and I'm sure they actually run parts of
worlds as well. Who's going to argue with a fleet of massive Imperial
warships anyway? :-)


> So?  They rule the worlds that the Imperium want to govern
>directly?  Is it a special thing, or are all worlds given Marquis
>who are pretty much free to govern the world as they wish within
>certain limits??  I imagine, from the opinions of others on the list,
>that a cut and dry answer isn't given anywhere...


In my own Traveller Universe, certain worlds are run by the Imperium for
whatever reason. I'm not sure if any definitive coverage has been done.

>> That should pretty much cover most of the bases, I think. Hope that
>> helps.
>
>Yes, alot.  Thanks.


Again, no problem, glad I could help out.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:14:40 -0800
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Re: What are drop tanks? Additional Questions

>>[snip]I think
>>that a High Passenger might be more than a tad put out that he/she is
>>sharing their quarters
>
>Of course.  But this is not the situation.


In your original statement, you said "Crew and passenger staterooms can be
tripled or even quadrupled for short periods of time, say the amount of time
to transit to jump point (20-40 hours usually). "

Are they not carrying high passengers?  How about Mid then?

>
>>who is building the quarters in the cargo bay?[snip]
>> ...the engineering staff (usually the people with the mechanical
>>skill that would be required) should be quite busy during the first hours
>>after you enter Jump.
>
>Perhaps I am unclear.  "Assembling Quarters" in this case means throwing
>down a few rugs, putting some "Bunks, Metal, Standard Size" together,
>moving the chemical toilet and portable washing sink into the corner
>withsome breakdown partitions here and there fore privacy.
>
>>Don't you think the people who
>>are paying for the cargo to arrive *intact* may have something to say
about
>>this?  How about the custom's inspectors when they start checking the
cargo
>>seals?
>
>The cargo bay in question would be otherwise empty.  It just had a fuel
>tank in it afterall.

The *entire* cargo bay is an auxilliary fuel tank?  You carry no cargo?

>
>>IMTU a stateroom must be able...[snip]
>IMTU it does not.

That's what makes it IMTU!  :)

>
>>IMTU, a merchant carrying passengers must be able to supply a method of
>>emergency egress (vacc suit, seat on a shuttle, life ball) for each
sophont
>>carried as a passenger.
>
>These aren't passengers, they are employees, and what keeps them from
>having vacc suits handy?

Again, in your original question you phrased it "So I can bring quite a few
steerage passengers or troops...."  Steerage passengers aren't employees,
altho' the troopies may be.  And Vacc suits are expensive - generally if you
can afford to have one, you won't be travelling steerage.  So the ship must
provide.

>
>>[snip]...but there are only limited points where water is available (for
>>cargo bay washdowns) and drainage (into the bilge) or normal air
circulation
>>(live cargo is carried in cargo pods with life support modules).
>
>This is not relevant.  One only needs a single source of water, the basics
>can be rigged from standard field equipment.  IMTU you pay for life support
>based on the whole volume of the vessel, therefore the whole volume is
>supplied.

You are assuming that the water supplied to the cargo bay is potable.  Is
this a one-trip deal, or something they want to do on a regular basis?

>
>> By the
>>very size of the cargo bay, I would prefer to keep it evacuated in
transit -
>>the ship's emergency air reserves (enough pressure to air the ship 1.5
>>times) does not include the cargo bay.
>
>IMTU you pay for life support based on the whole volume of the vessel,
>therefore the whole volume is supplied.  A "recharge" fee based on the
>number of people onboard for that period is assessed to charge up the
>system and provide replacement filters, etc, and this fee would apply.

There is more to life support than providing pressure.  Air supply and
exhaust, filtering, humidification (or de-humidification), gas testing,
heating or chilling spaces, compartmentalization (the ability to isolate
each compartment from the others in case of damage), etc....  Life support
equipment should be expensive, need maintenance, and (probably) not be
installed in areas not designed for habitation.  When you need to work in
areas not designed for life support (i.e. cargo bays, voids, fuel tanks,
etc), then there are procedures to follow in order to make 'em safe (or at
least keep you alive.)

>
>>If you crammed a load of passengers into your cargo bay, under any
>>conditions save emergencies, and were boarded for a INS 'health and
welfare'
>>inspection - you could expect to finish your cruise in the brig of a INS
>>destroyer!
>
>IMTU the Navy has better things to do than stop tramp freighters.
>Starports authorities may be a different story, but their only recouse is
>to turn a ship away.

What do you have your 400dton Patrol Cruisers doing then?

>
>>Having said all that, put your cargo bay into 0-G, rig a series of nets,
>>strap the steerage scum to the nets and pump 'em full of fast drug.
>
>Always an attractive option for the players, but how are they going to take
>over the ship in that state?!?  (I know I know, very slowly).

That's not my problem - it's theirs!  (if it was mine tho', I'd be looking
at smuggling a auto-injector with an antidote hooked to a timer on board ;^)

E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller
IMTU tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls
The early bird gets the worm, BUT
   the second mouse gets the cheese!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:13:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: What are drop tanks? Additional Questions

Peter H. Brenton writes:
> Perhaps I am unclear.  "Assembling Quarters" in this case means throwing
> down a few rugs, putting some "Bunks, Metal, Standard Size" together,
> moving the chemical toilet and portable washing sink into the corner
> withsome breakdown partitions here and there fore privacy.
World tamer's handbook let you do this.  I don't recall the cost.
> 
> >[snip]...but there are only limited points where water is available (for
> >cargo bay washdowns) and drainage (into the bilge) or normal air
> >circulation (live cargo is carried in cargo pods with life support
> >modules). 
> 
> This is not relevant.  One only needs a single source of water, the basics
> can be rigged from standard field equipment.  IMTU you pay for life support
> based on the whole volume of the vessel, therefore the whole volume is
> supplied.

While it's true that you pay for life support based on the volume of the
vehicle, in reality this is totally irrational -- life support requirements are
dependent on the # of people supported as well as the volume.  This can be
handled by assuming that the weight/cost of a stateroom includes some life
support.  However, given the amount of power available to your average
traveller ship, upgrading the life support to handle more people probably isn't
a big deal (might add a hundred kilos and a cubic meter per bunk for
indefinate-duration life support.  Oh no, you'll run out of space quickly!). 
Alternately, the life support can probably be run at higher throughput for at
least a while, though the air will start smelling sort of funny and eventually
you'll have breakdowns...
> 
> IMTU you pay for life support based on the whole volume of the vessel,
> therefore the whole volume is supplied.  A "recharge" fee based on the
> number of people onboard for that period is assessed to charge up the
> system and provide replacement filters, etc, and this fee would apply.

It might be reasonable to assume that once recharge fees exceeded a certain
value life support would start failing, however.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 10:24:03 +1300
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: Re: What are drop tanks? Additional Questions

>> So I can bring quite a few steerage passengers or troops by converting my
>> cargo bay cum fuel bladders into a bunkroom just after entering jump.  This
>> capacity is limited only by how many people I can "cram" into the existing
>> passenger/crew spaces for the period leading up to jump, say about 4 times
>> the usual capacity (thats about 1 person per ton), and if I have other
>> 'auxiliary' spaces (gymnasium, dinig salon) I can cram 1 more per ton into
>> those spaces for short periods.
>>
>> Ok, could someone please poke holes in this logic?  I don't really think
>> players should be doing this.


Not on a regular basis, but with the right preparation
and in special circumstances, it's a good idea.

The drawback for players will be the cost of repairing the
overloaded lfe support systems.

>Two words: Life Support.
>
>Life support for ships is based on a normal passenger complement, if you
>seriously raise that number, you're gonna start running into serious
>problems...what do you do when your air runs out ...and you're still in
>Jump space...


Your air _can't_ run out, it's got nowhere to go ! :-)

What can happen, though, is that your filtering mechanisms
and oxygen regenrators can become overloaded, resulting in
lowered oxygen densities, and high carbon-dioxide levels, etc.

This can happen in poorly-maintained ships even without
overloading, the ISS Scout is notorious for it's poor
scrubber systems, which leave a foul smell in the ship
unless the  filters are replaced reguuilalry

However, like all systems they can be boosted, patched,
and pushed.

I once captained a military ship which was pressed into
service as part of an attempted evacuation of a planet.

Our engineers performed a few customary miracles
and we got out to the nearest naval base with some
twenty times the normal ship's complement on board,
all cold berths full as well.

The ship stank and she needed an overhauil when
we offloaded, and there was the risk that the jury
rigged systems would fail, and we had a couple of
nasty incidents where we need to use maximum
force to maintain order, and for the last few hours
moving in-system the crew were using all the EVA,
drop-ship, lifeboat, and battle-armour life support
systems, with the refugees beginning to pass out
in the corridors and hangar bays but we made it.

I got an official reprimand for putting my ship in danger,
(there was no way we could have defended the ship
 had we been attacked ) but an unofficial "well done",
made some very influential freinds, and provided
a much needed boost in Navy public relations.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:27:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: What are drop tanks? Additional Questions

Peter H. Brenton writes:

> Not playing GT.  Don't want to play GT.  But what keeps a GT player from
> adding the LS capability in the form of portable life support
> filters/equipment?  I'm sure there is a vacuum shelter in the
> Gurpsyclopedia somewhere which can provide atmosphere and heat for a week.

A GT player could fit 4 people per displacement ton, with bunks, life support,
and food, into the cargo hold, no problem (might be a pain to assemble). A
5-ton block of steerage would cost $17,000 and hold 20 people, with a single
20-person life support unit and power requirements which would be insignificant
as long as power didn't fail (about 10 kW per block); it would give each person
a bunk and 20 cf (700 liters) of cargo space, some of which would be occupied
by food, and would weigh around ten tons, which is less dense than typical
cargo.  This would be virtually impossible in any other version of traveller,
though it really isn't all that unrealistic.
> 
> For that matter, does a Gurps Traveller character have to suit up to go to
> the cargo bay?  If not, then there is pressure, and if there is pressure,
> the task of recycling the existing atmosphere becomes even easier.

The air recycling capabilities for a GT ship are fairly limited (so the air
would become stale with time) but the entire ship is pressurized.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 07:43:13
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Grav Tank Configs

>From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
>Subject: Grav tank configs (Back on Topic)
>
>Hmm. What's the range on a densitometer? I wonder if these could be used to
>provide targetting data. This would be a double-edged sword for pop-up
>attackers, I suppose ...

It's worse than that. Gravitic sensors pick up contragrav.

I am seriously thinking of building a hi-tech rotary-winged aircraft,
because it may not be survivable to use contragrav in a high-threat
environment ...

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 00:02:20 +0200 (EET)
From: Eppu Tuominen <eptitu@utu.fi>
Subject: Re: New Poster and GURPS: Traveller

On Fri, 6 Nov 1998, Walter Smith wrote:

> According to some schools of thought, any truly successful AI
> research will be a doomsday scenario, at least for us - same way
> we were a doomsday scenario for Neandertals.
> 
> GURPS Reign of Steel, anyone?
> 
Exactly, that was one of the scenarios I considered, when I first heard
about the GT world background. (Just check out Dan Simmons´ Hyperion
cantos for a well thought out example of What _really_ big AIs running
rampant can do to a human society.) 
Of course SJG probably wouldn´t want to totally slag the big nice
universe they just went to so much trouble saving. Guess the Cymbeline
stuff is mostly out of official GT campaign.  

- -------------
Eppu Tuominen
eptitu@utu.fi
- -------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:01:01 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re Trademarks

>shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson) writes:
>>>Hm, Roger is sitting on the DGP stuff, but Marc has been remarkably
>>>generous in giving permission for people to xerox out-of-print material
>>                                              ^^^
>>  Be careful - they might sue!
>>
>Hm? I was referring to stuff that Marc had the copyright for, such as the
>GDW material. He requires that you include his copyright notice and the
>phrase "used with permission", just like GDW did when they gave permission
>to photocopy out-of-print sourcebooks.
>
>Mind you, I'm not advocating wholesale copying here. Simple courtesy (let
>alone the law) requires that anyone wanting to do this ask Marc for
>permission first.  I'm just pointing out that he's a reasonable chap.

But you didn't mention that "xerox" is a registered (and well defended)
trademark of Xerox Corporation, was sued without permission, and its use
was not intended as challenge to said corporation's rights.

;-)

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><Mailto:aramis@gci.net>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1109
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Traveller-digest      Friday, November 6 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 1110



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re GURPS Skills
Re: What are drop tanks? Additional Questions
Re: Gas Giant Gang
Cargo Holds/Slavery and Immigration
Re: New Poster and GURPS: Traveller
Re: Trademarks
re: Long range fire
Re: aircraft losses (off topic)
Re Long Range Fire
Re COACC
Grav Tanks
Re: Grav Tank Configs
Re: Off topic (re: response; long)
Re: Cargo Holds/Slavery and Immigration
Re: Gunnery Crew (was re: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1080)
Re: "Gas-Giant Gang?"
Re: Gas Giant Gang
Re: Gunnery Crew (was re: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1080)
Re: Grav tank configs (Back on Topic)
Re: New Poster and GURPS: Traveller

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:52:31 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re GURPS Skills

>2. What's the difference between Engineer (J-Drive)
>   and Mechanic (J-Drive), apart from one has a
>   default and the other doesn't?
>
Engineers can repair, maintain, operate and design; Mechanics can only
repair, maintain, and operate.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><Mailto:aramis@gci.net>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:25:21 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: What are drop tanks? Additional Questions

>>>[snip]I think
>>>that a High Passenger might be more than a tad put out that he/she is
>>>sharing their quarters
>>
>>Of course.  But this is not the situation.
>
>In your original statement, you said "Crew and passenger staterooms can be
>tripled or even quadrupled for short periods of time, say the amount of time
>to transit to jump point (20-40 hours usually). "
>
>Are they not carrying high passengers?  How about Mid then?

I have implied it a few times.  Allow me to be explicit now.  They are not
carrying passengers.  I was literally referring to the *staterooms* not the
*passengers*.  A High Passenger gets their own stateroom for the entire
journey, as you said, that is the definition of a high passenger.

>The *entire* cargo bay is an auxilliary fuel tank?  You carry no cargo?

Maybe, Maybe not.  In this specific case there happen to be multiple bays
on different decks.  I fail to see the problem with 'mixing' the two
(assuming the cargo is well secured).  Cargo containers are fairly robust
vs. tampering, and, if necessary, a temporary partition could be erected to
make the space feel less like a cargo bay and hide the cargo containers
from view.

>>>IMTU, a merchant carrying passengers must be able to supply a method of
>>>emergency egress (vacc suit, seat on a shuttle, life ball) for each
>sophont
>>>carried as a passenger.
>>
>>These aren't passengers, they are employees, and what keeps them from
>>having vacc suits handy?
>
>Again, in your original question you phrased it "So I can bring quite a few
>steerage passengers or troops...."[snip] And Vacc suits are expensive -
>>generally if you can afford to have one, you won't be travelling
>steerage.  So >the ship must
>provide.

Right,  sorry.  this specific example I'm dealing with they are troops.
For passengers the question applies.  That still doesn't change my answer.
If you want to carry passengers, you need such things handy, what keeps
them from being handy?  Expense?  That's not really pertinent, a Standard
Vacc Suit runs Cr7000 new, and could probably be picked up used for half
that in the "cheap skate" scenario, but even at full price the expense is
paid for by the passenger tickets over a few trips - its a one time cost.

>>>[snip]...but there are only limited points where water is available[snip]
>>This is not relevant.  One only needs a single source of water...
>You are assuming that the water supplied to the cargo bay is potable.[snip]

I am assuming that if it isn't potable, small, portable facilities can be
brought in at negligable expense to make it potable.

>>> By the
>>>very size of the cargo bay, I would prefer to keep it evacuated in
>transit -
>>>the ship's emergency air reserves (enough pressure to air the ship 1.5
>>>times) does not include the cargo bay.
>>IMTU you pay for life support based on the whole volume of the vessel[snip]>
>There is more to life support than providing pressure. [snip]...Life support
>equipment should be expensive, need maintenance, and (probably) not be
>installed in areas not designed for habitation.[snip]

This is contradicted by the design sequences.  Again, the *full volume* of
the hull is used to figure out the amount of life support to be installed.
Therefore the *Full volume* of the hull is covered under life support.

As for expense, full life support, including heat, lights, atmosphere,
water, food, sealed environment and waste recycling in Megatraveller has
the following costs;

Volume; .013 kl per kl of hull
Cost;  cr510 per kl of hull
weight; .013 tons per kl of hull
power;  .004 MW per kl of hull.

So, assuming for the moment it did need to be installed, my 50 ton
bunkroom/cargo bay would require .65kl of equipment at a cost of Cr.25,500,
weighing .65 tons and consuming .02 Megawatts.  Not insignificant, but not
terribly significant either...oh, and (again, in MT) engineering crew is
based on the power plant and propulsion costs while maintanence crew is
based on total hull cost and volume.  There is not an increased burden on
either crew if environmental equipment is increased

[snip]
>>IMTU the Navy has better things to do than stop tramp freighters.
>
>What do you have your 400dton Patrol Cruisers doing then?

Out looking for pirates (duck!) and outworld coalition members (Zhos,
Vargr, Sword Worlders).

Seriously, the Navy is not (IMO) the State Police, nor the Coast Guard.
They have more important missions than measuring toilets to make sure they
match regulation sizes.  There are certain "Imperial Crimes" which are
worthy of their attention IMTU, but they are fairly significant.  The
Navy's main job is to patrol for real threats and maintain a constant state
of readiness.

Hasta Monday!

Pete


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 16:29:48 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Gas Giant Gang

Walter Smith wrote:
> 
> Black ICE wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> <snip> it occurred to me that there must be an
> interstellar equivalent to the "Mile-High Club."  (I trust that the
> connection is clear to most posters.)  Since ships spend a week or so in
> jumpspace per jump, I didn't think that "Jumpspace Jazzer" would be
> appropriate.  I then figured that your average starship spends maybe a
> couple of hours per jump skimming fuel from a gas giant, and that the
> view might be, shall we say, _inspirational_.  Thus, I offer the slang
> term "Gas-Giant Gang" as a Traveller equivalent to the "Mile-High Club."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> No more than we have a "cruise ship club" or "hotel room club".
> 
> Star travellers in Traveller have their own cabins, live on the ship
> for appreciable periods of time and have a modicum of privacy.
> Very different from the titillating aspects of joining the "Mile High
> Club".
> 
You're probably right.  You must admit, though, at least this thread has
nothing to to with either piracy or canon.  ;-)

<<snip>>

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 16:40:00 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us>
Subject: Cargo Holds/Slavery and Immigration

If you're worried about your players pulling the trick of loading 
collapsible tanks in the cargo hold, and herding people into the hold 
after fueling the jump drive, try turning it into an actual 
adventure.

One of the PCs hears that his/her cousin/sibling/parent/best friend 
is finally getting his life's dream and is moving to a Ri In world 
where he can start a new life.  Sounds good, eh?  Happy for him, eh?  
Just after that, the PC hears a 20/20-style media expose on Colonist 
smuggling rings in that area.  This can be similar in style to the 
classic depiction of thugs smuggling Mexicans and others secretly 
into America.  If the PC doesn't seem worried about it, the media 
does an expose follow up a week later, and the PC sees the NPC's face 
on the video.  His family/friend, the NPC, is in trouble, and is 
going to be convicted and spend several lifetimes in jail unless he 
testifies, and evidence is brought to the courts regarding the fiends 
that run the ring.  Seems the NPC's loved one is still in their grips 
and he's willing to die himself to save her life.

PCs can embark on attempts to infiltrate the situation, learn of the 
Imperial laws that are being infringed, get queasy over your vivid 
descriptions of the work-camp/sweat-shop/stack-em-like-cordwood 
scenes as they work their way through the adventure.  (Infiltration 
of crew, as a passenger, etc.  They all have possibilities.) Finally, 
end with the chase scene where they nearly get caught, or the freedom 
scene where they free the people working as slaves on some plantation 
on the southern continent, or whatever, and the PCs get a real good 
view of the seedy side of colonization.

I.e., show them the bad side, and make it personal.  Then you won't 
have to worry as much about it.  If the PCs start getting too much 
into it, hunt them down with Imperial Law and deal with it with no 
remorse.  Unless, of course, it turns out to be a game that you and 
everyone else enjoy!  :)  (Hope not, but different strokes for 
different folks.)

I tried to leave a lot to the imagination and not suggest too 
specific a course with this.  I can provide more solid suggestions, 
if they are desired.  But I hope this helps...

Also, this brings up another thought-provoking question.  What about 
slavery, indentured labor, immigration scenarios like the one above, 
and similar activities in the Traveller Universe?  Where in Charted 
Space is it practiced?  How is it handled?  How are the people 
protected?  What kind of adventures could be run, or have been run, 
around this kind of scenario?

In Service,
Jason

PS Gone home for the weekend; see everyone on Monday.
============================
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer I
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375

Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 16:56:32 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: New Poster and GURPS: Traveller

Bruce Johnson wrote:
> 
><<snip>> 

> There is one oblique entry in SM about a scientist escaping from
> RSOmega, and getting killed before he could spread his warning. Some
> sort of post mortem memory recovery (courtesy PlotHandwave Inc. ;-) got
> some vague impression of a deadly virus; thus it was thought that what
> they were working on was some super-bioweapon. There are other oblique
> references to 'Lucan's mad superweapons' in SM. The actuak release
> occured after al the scientist at RSOmega were killed in the defense of
> the station. A hasty examination of the data in situ did not indicate
> the problem, and Virus was beamed to Dulinor's entire fleet for later
> examination at leisure.
> 
I think you mean "later _dissemination_ at leisure."  ;-)

And the moral of the story, children, is _never_ allow data of unknown
properties play in your main computer, directly or indirectly.  ("Put
those data down!  You don't know where they've been!")

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 17:59:01 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Trademarks

"William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net> writes:
>But you didn't mention that "xerox" is a registered (and well defended)
>trademark of Xerox Corporation, was sued without permission, and its use
>was not intended as challenge to said corporation's rights.

No no, I was being strictly accurate there. I do indeed "Xerox" my
documents - it says so right on the nameplate of my Xerox-manufactured
photocopier :-)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 11:45:53 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: re: Long range fire

At 23:29 5/11/98 -0800, Bruce Alan Macintosh wrote:

>(One thing no version has gotten right - you should go from near-certain-hit
>to very-low-hit-chance quite rapidly.)

I suspect that this is in part because this doesn't make for a particularly
fun game (IMO anyway).

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 18:23:36 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: aircraft losses (off topic)

In a message dated 11/5/98 6:17:59 PM Pacific Standard Time,
shadow@krypton.rain.com writes:

<< A package that is either part of a drone aircraft, or lobbed in via
 ballistic missile. A chute or balloon deploys at *high* altitude. This
 lets the package float down while your aircraft are making an attack.
 It fires some sort of guided munition (steerable shell or rocket) at
 any AA site that is observed.
 
 It might even be possible to skip the ballon or chute and just use some
 sort of MIRV setup. That is, a missile with a *lot* of AA-seeking
 submunitions deployed from the bus at high altitude. >>

Striker has drones that have both weapons and warhead payloads. They are good
for mid tech, until the rapid pulse fusion guns get too good...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:28:29 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re Long Range Fire

>
>>Required shots to assure 1 hit: (Pi * ( (Tls + Tlw) * A)^2) / Acs
>>Tls = Time Lag (one way) in seconds, of sensor system
>>Tlw = time lag (one way) for weapon system.
>>A = mps accelleration maximum
>>Acs = Area, cross-sectional, in square meters
>
>Actually, the formula is
>(Pi*(0.5 * (Tls+Tlw)^2)*A^2) / Acs
>since distance travelled away from predicted position
>0.5 * A * T^2.
>
>This reduces hit probabilities at long ranges but increases them at short
>ranges compared to your calculation.
>
>(One thing no version has gotten right - you should go from near-certain-hit
>to very-low-hit-chance quite rapidly.)
>
>bruce
Damnation.... I knew I was missing something somewhere!

But you made a math error there two:

(Pi * (0.5 * (Tls + Tlw)^2 * A))/ Acs.

as 0.5AT^2 is 0.5 * A * A * T....order of operations PEMDAS... Gawds I hate
being dyscalculeic.... (a form of mathematic-dyslexia, and the reason I
always show my steps!!!). THanks for catching the missing term.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:aramis@gci.net> Note: All other E-mail addresses for me expire by
the end of november 1998!
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:39:09 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re COACC

>
>Nope. There was a rotary-wing gunship, but a conspicuous lack of grav
>vehicles in COACC. To me, it was the biggest disappointment in what was
>otherwise my favorite MT supplement. There were few examples of
>stellar-tech COACC vehicles. I guess this was due to the assumption that
>Trepidas and their ilk would take on the role of attack aircraft by this
>time and strike aircraft would be replaced by smart missiles. However,
>while floating tanks have a high kewlness factor, but I somewhat doubt they
>would be the best configuration for a combat aircraft. The attack speeders
>in DGP's 101 Vehicles would be closer to the mark IMO, although I would
>have configured and loaded them out differently.

Using striker, in 1986, I designed a (to borrow a term from Space Opera)
TurboGrav gunship. Worked out to be fairly light, using gav lift and some
thrust, with massive jet engines for thrust, aerodynamic lift available
(and the thrust could be added from the gravitics when going fast enough),
twin VRF Gauss GUn with multiple tac-missile rails dogfighter/ground
assault craft. Light on the armor, but it would do in excess of Mach 1, and
only cost a couple of million credits.... and could strafe like mad!

No turrets, tho...

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:aramis@gci.net> Note: All other E-mail addresses for me expire by
the end of november 1998!
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:44:33 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Grav Tanks

>Actually, in thinking about it, I wonder how useful a ventral main turret
>would be overall. Assuming it's not a ball turret, you would have a limited
>firing arc below you, and since you are sticking close to the ground anyway
>you could probably just go low to hit such low-lying targets with your
>dorsal main gun. Maybe you'd have to tilt the vehicle a bit. I am also
>thinking that you might be able to roll a grav vehicle quite easily (thus
>making the dorsal turret a ventral turret). I'd probably save the expense
>(and mass/volume). I am interested in why you think a ventral turret would
>be worth the trouble.

Keep in mind that many of us assume ImpMarDiv's include the "Strike From
Space" mode: Grav tanks descend from orbit under their own power... the
paired dorsal/ventral turrets allow both fire-up and fire down, and allows
you to basically do a slightly higher popup one down to get TWO weapons on
a target, or one weapon on each of two targets during a popup.

IMTU, the ImpMar doesn't use ventral turrets so they can still do a "Belly
Landing" with some emergency vents from the PP...to pull the nose up after
a PP or Susp hit. Also, that way you can set down conviniently, without
landing gear.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:aramis@gci.net> Note: All other E-mail addresses for me expire by
the end of november 1998!
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 15:27:15 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Grav Tank Configs

>It's worse than that. Gravitic sensors pick up contragrav.
>I am seriously thinking of building a hi-tech rotary-winged aircraft,
>because it may not be survivable to use contragrav in a high-threat
>environment ...

Id be willing to consider tweaking rgrav sensor ranges so that they aren't

certain death for grav tanks. IO made up the numbers in the FFS2 addenda
to make them marginally useful for spacecraft (but not very useful.) We
could (for example) massively reduce their range in a grav field, or vs
contragrav (as opposed to thruster plates) on the grounds that t-plates
make bigger gravity waves, os something simiklar.

Also note that in any case grav sensors don't proviude precise enough cuing
to fire a direct fire weapon at someone (although I suppose that's moot
since you can always fire a missile or light target up with LIREAR.)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 18:30:26 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Off topic (re: response; long)

In a message dated 11/5/98 6:57:00 PM Pacific Standard Time,
Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca writes:

<< 
 Without igniting a gun control debate (something I'd like to avoid, as I
 fall firmly in the "compromise" camp and have no desire to be attacked
 from two sides), could we agree that the arming of civilian starships is
 as much a cultural as a military phenomenon?  >>

I concurr... Good post. As I yank; I'm concerned about Canada. I LIKE stable
boarders and stable neighbors...

Ob: Traveller: Take your pick: Vargyr, Solomani, Aslan....etc. :-)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 16:31:26 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Cargo Holds/Slavery and Immigration

Jason Kemp wrote:

> Also, this brings up another thought-provoking question.  What about
> slavery, indentured labor, immigration scenarios like the one above,
> and similar activities in the Traveller Universe?  Where in Charted
> Space is it practiced?  How is it handled?  How are the people
> protected?  What kind of adventures could be run, or have been run,
> around this kind of scenario?

See my 'Slavers of Genarre' post on Freelance Traveller..Jeff posted the
new home earlier today. That's one take. It's set in Mileu Zero, but can
be transferred easily to the frontiers of any Milieu
- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 18:32:48 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Gunnery Crew (was re: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1080)

In a message dated 11/5/98 6:59:26 PM Pacific Standard Time,
Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca writes:

<< I promised not to ask, if they promised to do it where the passengers
 couldn't see :-)
  >>
But do they play with the grav plates while they do it....? :-)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 18:36:50 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: "Gas-Giant Gang?"

In a message dated 11/5/98 8:29:10 PM Pacific Standard Time,
wombat@premier.net writes:

<< it occurred to me that there must be an
 interstellar equivalent to the "Mile-High Club."  (I trust that the
 connection is clear to most posters.)  Since ships spend a week or so in >>


How about the "jump bump" or the "jump hump"?... :-) (I've got to start
annoying the wife...)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 18:43:15 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Gas Giant Gang

In a message dated 11/6/98 6:11:28 AM Pacific Standard Time,
SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU writes:

<< Star travellers in Traveller have their own cabins, live on the ship
 for appreciable periods of time and have a modicum of privacy.
 Very different from the titillating aspects of joining the "Mile High
 Club".
  >>

You could always do it in the fresher behind the bridge... :-)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 19:17:16 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: Gunnery Crew (was re: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1080)

At 06:32 PM 11/6/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 11/5/98 6:59:26 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca writes:
>
><< I promised not to ask, if they promised to do it where the passengers
> couldn't see :-)
>  >>
>But do they play with the grav plates while they do it....? :-)
>
Can grav-plates be set to oscilate positive/negative?

Can we say, well, nevermind.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 16:49:03 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Grav tank configs (Back on Topic)

At 03:02 PM 11/6/98 -0500, you wrote:

>2. Grav Tanks and their kin travel at Nape-of-Earth, and attack from
>distances greater than 5km.  So the majority of direct fire attacks will
>impact the sides, front and rear of the vehicle, not the top or the bottom.

The game Renegade Legion: Prefect had rules for grav formations moving in
"high mode" i.e., up in the clear blue yonder, free of terrain
restrictions.  Very fast, but you're dead if you get caught.

>3. Point Defense weapons render most, but not all, missiles and chemically
>propelled rounds ineffective.  Therefore the primary perceived threat to a
>grav tank is a laser, plasma or fusion weapon.

What about Mass Drivers?  IIRC, the Regency Combat Vehicle Sourcebook (or
whatever it was called) had a Trepeda variant armed with a big MD.  Better
penetration, more ammo, for the same weight and power.  While PD fire would
easily take care of (relatively) slow missiles and the vulnerable HEAP
warheads, a solid slug of bonded superdense moving like a bat out of hell
(figure upwards of 3000 mps) would provide more of a challenge.

I just a quick 3G3 design for a 6cm MD that does 19 Dam and weighs about 13
tons.  It's also 8m long...

>4. The best defense against fusion weapons, aside from not being shot by
>them, is armor, and lots of it.

>Those are my principles.  Now for the theory.
>
>The Helo shape you are talking about is basically a cigar shape with tall
>'sides'.   Profile is very small from directly in front and in back, and
>long and narrow from above and below.  From the sides, however, this shape
>is most vulnerable.  For a fast-mover vs. slow movers this is perfect,
>since you expect to be in and out quickly and the side-on shot will have to
>be quick and have lots of 'lead', while a head-on or tail-on shot needs to
>be very precise.

Never underestimate the power of guided missiles.  I can easily imagine a
brilliant missile that will evaluate it's chances of hitting before
launching; refuses to engage anything it doesn't have a good chance of
successfully engaging.

Also, the primary ADA weapon is going to be a dedicated heavy laser,
designed exclusively to hit small, fast targets.

>For a vehicle that moves more slowly (NOE speed at TL15 is only 190kph)
>there needs to be more side protection, and less top and bottom protection.
>This craft is not making passing attacks (although it can), its going up
>against other grav tanks in a game of hide-manuver-popup&shoot-hide again.
>it is difficult to predict which face will take the hit - except that it is
>unlikely to be attacked from above or below.  Since everyone will be
>hugging the terrain it is pretty much a 2D battlespace.

At last!  Someone else who sees this the way I do..  If there is one lesson
that we've learned from modern warfare is that no matter how advanced the
technology, staying low and hiding is always a good idea.  One of the main
reasons for the US army switching to the 5.56mm standard was the
realization that most infantry encounters happen at less than 200m.  Having
a heavy rifle that was accurate out to 1km was a waste, when that weight
could be better used for additional ammo.

The same holds true for tankers.. except for desert warfare, most tanks
encounter each other at fairly short ranges.  This makes crew training and
morale the most important factor in any technologically-balanced force.  In
late 1944, the Russians had achieve parity with the Germans in tank
technology, but the Russian crews were experienced, whereas most of the
best German crews were dead.  Made a great deal of difference on the
Eastern Front.

>So my preferred shape is a saucer shape.  Compromising to the need for
>speed, it is a shape longer than it is wide.  The hull tapers to relatively
>sharp angles where the top deck meets the bottom deck such that a side-on
>hit will spread itself across many square centimeters of hull.  The turret
>fairs into the deck closely for the same reason.  The profile is quite
>short, but wide, from every cardinal direction, but from above and below it
>is a big target.

I prefer the traditional box, since it does cut down on the visual cross
section from the front.  One thing all tankers know is to keep your front
armor towards the enemy, something that will still apply in the 57th Century.

>It's not a fast attack craft.  Its a take your shot and give one back craft.

Or, to paraphrase Patton: "its job is to fix and destroy the enemy by means
of fire, shock and maneuver."

>>[snip]However, I wonder how controllable a turreted
>>vehicle with a Big Honkin' Barrel (tm) would be at speed in atmosphere if
>>it were pointed anywhere but in an aerodynamically efficient direction. The
>>Trepida's turret pointed to either side of the axis of travel would cause
>>an awful lot of drag.
>
>If the Trepida were in battle, according to my vision, it would not be
>travelling at its Mach 7+ top speed.  It would be creeping along at its
>190kph NOE speed.  The high speed is for transit to and from the
>battlefield and/or orbit.

And would probably require main gun lock-down, careful storage of all
secondary weapons, in short, all the things that privates hate doing with a
passion.

>Point defense weapons need 360 x 360 coverage.  You never know where a
>missile might pop up from, and you don;'t always have the luxury of
>"rolling" to bring your PD weapons to bear.

Mount them at the corners.

>Infantry against tanks?  sure, all you need to do is be in the right place
>- directly below the grav tank, where the armor is thinnest and the angle
>for your penetrator the best.  Oh, and its best to be within 50 meters so
>the point defense doesnt have time to slew around and blow your anti-tank
>missile up.  In other words, you need to shoot it down right on top of your
>own position.  Preferably when you're not there.

One of the most valuable things we can accomplish is distracting the tread
(or grav)heads.  Even if a missile doesn't penetrate, that shock is doing
to scare the shit out of the crew, and all their attention is going to be
suddenly focused on finding that missileman.  Properly timed, and
anti-armor infantry ambush could cover for the start of a friendly armored
thrust.

- --

+--------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry   dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/     |
+--------------------------------------+
| "Fixed fortifications are monuments  |
| to the  stupidity of man."           |
|               -Gen. George S. Patton |
+--------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:24:59 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: New Poster and GURPS: Traveller

Sat, 7 Nov 1998 00:02:20 +0200 (EET), Eppu Tuominen <eptitu@utu.fi>

>Exactly, that was one of the scenarios I considered, when I first heard
>about the GT world background. (Just check out Dan Simmons¥ Hyperion
>cantos for a well thought out example of What _really_ big AIs running
>rampant can do to a human society.)
> Of course SJG probably wouldn¥t want to totally slag the big nice
>universe they just went to so much trouble saving. Guess the Cymbeline
>stuff is mostly out of official GT campaign.

Mostly for different reasons.

GURPS really isn't into "one" way of doing things and I don't think they
 would have a fundamental objection to persenting an alternate where
Virus (or something like it, occured).  However, I'm guessing they would
see a Virus setting source book as something that wouldn't have enough
appeal (esp. since they aren't going to be able to develop it the way they
are developing GT) and wouldn't warrant pushing back some other GT
supplement (in addition to the question about rights, AFAIK Mark Miller
doesn't have rights to Virus).  The feeling I get from SJG is that they think
they need to have  a really well supported setting and they aren't
going to be interested in diluting that into two subsettings, each of which
has mediocre support.

Now that isn't to say that they wouldn't welcome a pyramid article on
(say :-) using GT and Reign of Steel/Robots to run a Virus compaign.
Nor is there anything to stop you from making one up yourself.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1110
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Saturday, November 7 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1111



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Mr Fusion rides again...
Re: Lanthanum grids [jump dimming] and stuff
Re: [off topic]other systems
GT - Extra Starship Weapons Request
Re: aircraft losses (drifting back on-topic)
Dear Cousin Ditzie
Re: "It Isn't Traveller" 
More question
Re: More question
Re: Weapons hits (Re: Taking The Hit)
Re: Gas Giant Gang
Re: Grav Tanks
Re: Poison Gas (was: nobles)
Re: More question
Re: Dr. Strangelove
Re: "Gas-Giant Gang?"
Fusion power and NTRs
Re: Creative use of Denitometers
Re: Medicine in Traveller 4 : Drugs, Poisons and Disease (long)'

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 17:44:47 -0800
From: George Herbert <gherbert@crl.com>
Subject: Mr Fusion rides again...

DASA and the University of Illinois just announced a commercial
product in final development, a neutron source using D-D fusion
collisions in the spherical inertial electrostatic confinement
arraingement that was discussed in Analog not that long ago...

http://www.dasa.com/fusionstar/

Nifty.

- -george

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 19:53:06 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Lanthanum grids [jump dimming] and stuff

Ian or Katts wrote:
> 
> >From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
> >Subject: Jumping from inside an atmosphere is a *BAD* thing
> >
> >For the sceptics (and those who can't agree with me when I say the sun rises
> >in the west ;) another possibility - Again assuming that the power of the
> >grid is sufficient to cause the metal to generate *lots* of light and heat
> >(I'm assuming that the grid is well insulated from the ship, and thus does
> >not cause internal damage) - metal tends to soften when it's hot.  And while
> >activating the grid well outside a gravity well, or at least in
> >microgravity, will tend not to affect it, subjecting it to a full gravity
> >well and causing it to have to support it's own weight (at least on the
> >underside of the ship) while also making it ...ummmm... supple?  Well, that
> >may cause permanent distortion of the grid - and may require a shipyard
> >visit - assuming that the warpage of the J-field is not sufficient to cause
> >a misjump or a J-space hull breach.
> >
> 
> Y'know, this could explain jump dimming - minimise power use to cut down on
> the heat coming out of the power plant radiators.
> 
Except that Solomani ships never picked up on the "need" for jump
dimming.  As a Solomani myself, I prefer to design ships with _lots_ of
spare power.  Obviously, such ships don't _need_ to worry about jump
dimming to send every possible Watt to the jump drive.

I always figured that Solomani designs mirrored American attitudes, and
had power plants large enough to run everything at once (just as late
20th century American automobiles can generally cruise at 75+ mph, with
air conditioning, truly impressive stereo, headlights, off-road lights,
and whatever other options running _all at once_).

OTOH, the Vilani, having lived in a culture of scarcity (starting with
food), tend to design ships with the smallest power plant possible for
the ship's mission.  Jump dimming is one way of cutting energy corners
to save valuable resources.

<<snip>>

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 15:39:05 +1300
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [off topic]other systems

>>speaking of SFAD and SFKH, did they ever come out with the conversions to
>>the Zeb's Guide mechanics for SFKH?
>
>  I don't think so - you mean the skill system changes? FWIW, probably
>all of the SFKH modules were worth converting, plus one or two of the
>regular SF series. I suppose that it will never be substantially re-issued
>under the "Not Made By Us" complex - it would only be natural for the WotC
>designers to feel that way.


One of the best SF modules for a traveller game IMHO is 'Bugs in the
system'. It is situated on a gas giant mining platform and has the players
trying to get the station to work whilst the bugs are playing with it. It
kept my players amused for a couple of sessions :) Then I put them through
the 'Volturnus' series, you know the one where they crash on a planet, It
was kind of tricky with them being Space Marines and all but I just through
in some Kafer (from 2300) and things worked out nicely. Also it was a good
way to give them psionics which they could not otherwise have gained (got
psionics from the squids).

Basically I would say that most of the SF modules can be used and are quite
fun to use with a bit of tweaking here and there.

Cheers,
 Anson

I want to die in my sleep like my grandfather,
not screaming and yelling like the passengers in his car.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 13:48:04 -1000
From: Craig Barnett <craig_barnett@iname.com>
Subject: GT - Extra Starship Weapons Request

Lacking the relevant books (ie Gurps Vehicles), I'm wondering if
somebody else with time on their hand would consider doing a little
design work to help me out with the starship construction rules in GT.

What I'd like to see are further Spinal Mount designs (ie more than 1 of
each type).  It's a little unrealistic for 20kt light cruiser and 500kt
dreadnoughts to use the same weaponry, IMHO, so a larger range of
available weapons would be "nice".

Ideally, I'd like to see matching spinal mounts for each weapon in High
Guard, but that's probably asking a bit much 8-p.

Is anybody with Gurps Vehicles (and HG?) game to give it a go?


- --
Craig Barnett   <craig_barnett@iname.com>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 21:45:35 -0600
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>
Subject: Re: aircraft losses (drifting back on-topic)

Black ICE wrote:

[snip]

>
>Sounds similar in principle, if not in execution, to the TACIT RAINBOW
>project I read about in *unclassified* sources.  A loitering
>anti-radiation missile.  _Deeply_ unpleasant!
>
>Even better (from the attacker's point of view) would be a loitering
>missile, carrying a deep-penetration warhead, with a seeker head
>designed to pick up stray meson emissions from deep meson sites....


	IMHO, deep meson sites are a real bitch to deal with.  A while back
I was pondering how best to deal with them... so I designed a mondo huge
even by FSA standards mass driver round, and with a bit of help with the
physics from Leonard, quickly realized that the best way to deal with a
deep meson site is either blind it completely, or zot it with another MG.

	A leaked and reposted FSA internal memo on Project Low-Lethality
Thud Gun follows:


>************************************************
>
>
>Intercepted FSA Internal Memo
>
>
>From:	Niipita Indifar Spofulam, Head, Starship weapons division
>To:	Hengabar Spofulam
>Re:	Project: Concealable Light Low-Lethality Thud Gun
>Date:	002-016
>
>******************************************************************
>
>Dear Uncle Hengie:
>
>	I'm sorry to report that initial feasibility studies demonstrate
>that Cousin Shidaar's concept for a ship-based anti-Deep Meson Site mass
>driver is somewhat flawed.
>
>	To recap, Cousin Shidaar's concept was that of a HEAP gauss round
>scaled up by several orders of magnitude; a 10m diameter by 50-odd meter
>mass driver projectile, containing 2 displacement tons of liquid hydrogen
>as coolant and fusion mass, was to be accelerated via a spinally mounted
>mass driver to velocities exceeding 25,000 meters/second.  The projectile
>was to mass approximately 58,900 tons.  The LHyd coolant, serving as
>refrigerant to lower the round's IR signature, was to run through piping
>running through the projectile and expand upon heating into a
>hemispherical cavity located towards the rear of the projectile.
>
>	Upon impact, the kinetic energy released would be on the order of a
>1.4 megaton nuclear detonation.  As the slug drove through the surface of
>the planet, disintegrating from the high energies released, compression
>effects would compact the hydrogen into the top of the dome-shaped
>detonation chamber, where the heat created by impact would ignite a fusion
>explosion, focussed by the shape of the detonation chamber and tamped to a
>small extent by the remaining mass and velocity of the projectile.  The
>resulting explosion (of approximately 4 megatons at estimated efficiency
>of <1%), when combined with the  extremely high impact velocity of the
>superdense projectile, was to be sufficient enough to blast through the
>planet's crust and destroy the targeted deep meson site.
>
>	Had the weapon worked as projected, this would have resulted in a
>means of eliminating deep meson sites from beyond their lethal radius,
>while causing minimal (relatively speaking) collateral damage to the
>planet; the destruction caused would have been limited relative to the
>depth of the impact compared to the use of high-yield fusion devices of
>comparable yield; total devastation, and climatological and other
>environmental damage would have been relatively limited.
>
>	However, after running the numbers through some preliminary models,
>it is estimated that due to the extremely high energy levels involved, the
>penetrative HEAP-analogue effect that Cousin Shidaar envisioned would not
>occur; even superdense has its limits.  The slug would simply vapourize
>before digging too deep, causing precisely the sort of widespread massive
>destruction that the weapon concept was to avoid.  When following standard
>crater-producing models on a typical Sylean-norm planet, it is estimated
>that assuming fusion detonation took place as projected (which is far from
>certain), the crater produced would be somewhat over 850 meters in
>diameter and somewhat less deep.  The destructive radius of the blast
>would of course be much larger, on a par with a 4.3 megaton yield
>thermonuclear device.  Thus, the destructive effect of the projectile
>would be insufficient to accomplish its goal of deep meson site
>neutralization.
>
>	Of course, while the ability to cause this sort of damage to a
>target is eminently desirable, there are far less expensive means of
>causing it than Cousin Shidaar's outsize mass driver.  Scaling up the
>projectile size and velocity would increase costs (both of weapon system
>and platform) proportionately, not to mention crater size and collateral
>damage.  Thus, I cannot recommend that we proceed with the development of
>this weapon system until materials technology progresses to the point
>where a projectile as described above would not vapourize upon impact.
>This development is unlikely in the short to medium term.
>
>	To conclude, while his concept is fundamentally flawed, Cousin
>Shidaar has nevertheless demonstrated exceptional talent for a 7-year-old,
>and I would suggest that we shunt him into the extremely enriched
>educational program at the creche.
>
>	Your affectionate niece,
>
>	Niipie.



Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:03:20 -0600
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>
Subject: Dear Cousin Ditzie

To: My dearest little Ditzie

From Unkie Hengie

cc: Marketing, Finance


	Yes Ditzie, you can call the 4-4s the Rabid Impregnable Beach Ball
from Hell.  Given the savings over conventional SBDs, why stop at 10 cm of
Superdense?  Admittedly, you will run into problems as all the exterior
sensors are vapourized, but you can always build backups a few cm into the
armour so that they'll be re-exposed as the superdense ablates.

	Go for a 30-cm thickness prototype.  Tell Finance I say so, tell
Auntie Fiiaraa in Dispensary to give you double the usual dosage of the
little yellow pills, and go to town.  I'm sure Marketing will be able to
find us a few buyers somewhere; tell them to start calling Moonshine
buyers...


>
>To : Hengabar Spofulam
>
>>From : Diiitzieeeee
>
>cc : Maaaaarketing
>
>We're redesigning the Four fours Esss-deeeee-beeee, an an an an weeeee have
>this great slooooow-gan for it.
>
>>I can live with that.  What I *can't* live with are Rabid Impregable
>>Beachballs From Hell.
>>
>>Keven
>
>Weeeee dont think the Four-fours (can we call it the Rabid Impregnaaaaable
>Beeeeeachball-liie-ballie-ball-ball from Hellllllllll) is impreganble, but
>but but weeeee reckon it would take a lot of work to punchie-wunchie-wunch
>thru ten centimeter-wentimenters of suuuuppper-dense (maybe twennie
>cennimeteres of criiiistaliron, we're not suuuuuure right now) with a
>laaaaaaser.
>
>
>Your loving cousin,
>
>Ditzie

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 11:24:38 -0500
From: "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com>
Subject: Re: "It Isn't Traveller" 

- ----------
> From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: "It Isn't Traveller" 
> Date: Friday, October 23, 1998 3:52 PM
> 
> At 23:19 22/10/98 -0800, William F. Hostman wrote:
> 
> >Oh, one other problem with heplars: they eat a large power chunk, in
> >ADDITION to needing plenty of fuel of their own. And MT/FF&S1 pp's
(which
> >are basically identical) do eat a goodly ammount of fuel.
> 
> IIRC MT fusion plants use about 0.05 kl/hr/MW, maybe divided by 3 because
> of efficiency for 0.01667 kl/hr. FF&S1 fusion plants use about 0.1
> kl/year/MW which is about 1500 times more efficient.
> 
> >Heplar may be more realistic, but it meant (IME) PC's taking running
jumps
> >constantly, and spending about 3 times as long to get to/from jump
points,
> >and GG's became accessable only via jump, as did the outter system. One
> >group of PC's nearly died off due to a misjump using TNE Rules, which
put
> >them in the system, at several thousand AU. (T-Plates can get very
tricky
> >on distances like these, because you run smack into relativity issures,
but
>
OK the effects of Heplar on my TRAVELLER players  was they never took
running jumps and thought most ships would do about 1g to jump points and
caculate on the way for transition to J-space. We also assumed that from
the space port to the j-point would be monitored by the starport. So we're
on the run from baron x because he wants his wife back. use laser comm to
tell him you got naked pics of her and dare him to fire on you. if he does
fire Radio out a GK and call him a pirate there had to be other ships
around. If a Running jump was needed they out ran the j-point to caculate a
point for jump and took the time to make the task more exact. out system
was all bad. Wilderness refueling was only done when A the planet orbited
the Gas Gaint B. At a water world. not like in the old days when you saved
those pennies on fuel.

> So what limit, if any, do you put on the distance from a gravity source
> that a T-plate can be and still function? If it's 1000 or 2000 diameters
a
> misjump of more than a few hundred AU will kill a T-plate ship's crew far
> more certainly than a HEPlaR's, especially as the HEPlaR fuel supply may
be
> enough to allow a jump.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:36:26 -0500
From: "N. Eric Phillips" <stilleon@io.com>
Subject: More question

Simple question first:

1. How do you pronounce "Ine Givar?"

Now the Jump drive questions:

2. Can you do an EVA while in jumpspace?

3. What do you see out the window while in a jump?

4. Is the J-Drive actually working while in Jump Space or does it just work
to get you to "break on through to the other side" )as Jim Morrison might
say) then it goes cold and you wait for natural forces to dump you back into
normal space?

5. Can you force an emergency exit from jumpspace?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 23:44:24 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: More question

>
> Now the Jump drive questions:
>
> 2. Can you do an EVA while in jumpspace?
>
> 3. What do you see out the window while in a jump?
>
> 4. Is the J-Drive actually working while in Jump Space or does it just work
> to get you to "break on through to the other side" )as Jim Morrison might
> say) then it goes cold and you wait for natural forces to dump you back into
> normal space?
>
> 5. Can you force an emergency exit from jumpspace?

<sarcasm>
You're not allowed to ask any of these questions as they would require defining
and explaining how jumpspace works.  Since "canon" doesn't explain this, any
definition would go against canon and thus you would start a huge flame war
(again) regarding jumpspace.
</sarcasm>

Seriously though, these are exactly the sort of questions that caused me to
abandon "canonical" jump drives.  Basically, just make up your own mind.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 17:46:55 +1300
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Weapons hits (Re: Taking The Hit)

>Merrick, on starship combat:
>
>>true in CT as well, weapon hits have always been too likely, but I
>>guess you assume that the damage tables only count "good" hits).
>
>
>I always assumed these type of hits not only included the weapon system
>itself, but also the power grid that supplied the weapons. This made it
>marginally more believable for me.
>
>BTW, I found a variant starship damage table for MT I came up with several
>years ago, the biggest difference being that all hits were rated according
>to the Superficial/Minor/Major/Destroyed system in the MT task system. It's
>typewritten, and I though about scanning it in to make a digital copy.
>Would anyone like to see it?
>
Yes please :)

Cheers,
 Anson

I want to die in my sleep like my grandfather,
not screaming and yelling like the passengers in his car.

UTUP 0910 B-115A15E-C-C-A

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 18:30:08 +1300
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: Re: Gas Giant Gang

Actually, guys & gals, the Mile High Club is still 
the thing to join. It's just different than it used to be

These days, to join the club you need to make it 
using grav belts, or while doing a bungy off the
bean-stalk, or while carrying out an orbital 
parachute jump during re-entry....

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 19:07:50 +1300
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: Re: Grav Tanks

>IMTU, the ImpMar doesn't use ventral turrets so they can still do a
"Belly
>Landing" with some emergency vents from the PP...to pull the nose
up after
>a PP or Susp hit. Also, that way you can set down conviniently,
without
>landing gear.


Personally, I think a  grav tank with side ball turrets
sort of  like the old WWI Mark I  would make sense.

Both turrets will be capable of firing up, down, front
and back. with each of them covering a side. The
top would be free for sensor arays or other
weaponry .

I doubt the reasoning behind top turrets in modern
tanks  ( being able to reduce overal height and firing
from hull-down positions ) will mean very much in
a grav-propelled, fusion-weaponed environment

I suspect the turrets would be "popped" for action
like the weapons pod of the F119, to reduce drag
and sensor signature during transit

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 19:34:35 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Poison Gas (was: nobles)

Date sent:      	Fri, 06 Nov 1998 09:30:06 -0500
From:           	Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)

>Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au> writes:
>>As far as I remember, Mustard Gas was invented by Sir Humphrey Davey, and
>>was filed in the British Army's 'Too Horrible to Use' files for 100 years
>>or so, so I find it quite credible that the military potential of Virus
>>would be filed under 'Probably wont work, and if it does, it is too
>>dangerous to use'.
>
>True. Also of note:
>
>Under the Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1906, axphyxiating gas was
>specifically forbidden. The British discounted the warnings of chlorine
>gas at Ypres because they believed that Germany wouldn't break the
>convention.

Technically the Germans did not brake the Hague convention at Ypres. The 
Convention banned the use of toxic or asphyxiating _shells_. The Germans 
deployed the gas as a cloud from cylinders!

ObTrav: This is exactly why the Imperial Rules of War are _not_ written down 
and codified. :*>


Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 04:23:57 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: More question

N. Eric Phillips" <stilleon@io.com> said:

>1. How do you pronounce "Ine Givar?"


How do I pronounce it? It may differ from others, but this is how I
pronounce it:

INnie giveARE

Capitals are where the accents are. That's innie (as in Mini or Minnie
Driver), "give" as in "give me a break" and "are" as in "are we going out
tonight?".


>Now the Jump drive questions:
>
>2. Can you do an EVA while in jumpspace?


I wouldn't advise it (see #3 below).

>3. What do you see out the window while in a jump?


The obvious answer is Cthulhu. That bastard's everywhere.

>4. Is the J-Drive actually working while in Jump Space or does it just work
>to get you to "break on through to the other side" )as Jim Morrison might
>say) then it goes cold and you wait for natural forces to dump you back
into
>normal space?


Cthulhu does most of the work, really. Well, Cthulhu's pretty shiftless, and
has been accused of being a shiftless layabout with no shopping agenda...
Cthulhu can work if need be.

>5. Can you force an emergency exit from jumpspace?


If Cthulhu feels it's important enough Cthulhu might force an emergency
exit. When tea time comes, many ships have found themselves in deep space
while Cthulhu goes off to meet with Minnie Driver and throw back some Earl
Grey.

Seriously though, I've seen no canon sources that say anything really
conclusive on these subjects. IMTU the jump drive forces the ship into
extradimensional "jump space". Jump space doesn't have a "look" per se, but
something stranger. Close your eyes tightly and press on your eyelids, not
long though, it might do damage. That's a rough approximation of what
J-Space is like. Finally, and emergency exit from J-Space _is_ possible.
However, due to the "unique topography" of Jump Space it's something like a
misjump, only much, much worse. Imagine cutting the J-Drive and finding
yourself in deep, deep space really, really far away from home.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 02:29:05 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Dr. Strangelove

In mail you write:

>>"Mister President!  We _must not allow_ a MINESHAFT GAP!" >;-)
>
>   Argh - I just found this is scheduled to play on campus in a couple
> weeks, double-billed with the short (2.5h) version of Das Boot. That
> should be a cool evening.

I once caught an unannounced double feature on Showtime (I have it on
tape). "Failsafe" followed by "Dr. Strangelove".

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 02:30:37 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: "Gas-Giant Gang?"

In mail you write:

> I was getting ready to respond to a post about subsidized merchants. 
> In particular, the poster had asked something about anti-trust
> violations.  As I was about to type that "the Imperium doesn't give a
> flying **** about anti-trust" (Cleon I's Restoration being _based_ on a
> technological monopoly), it occurred to me that there must be an
> interstellar equivalent to the "Mile-High Club."  (I trust that the
> connection is clear to most posters.)  Since ships spend a week or so in
> jumpspace per jump, I didn't think that "Jumpspace Jazzer" would be
> appropriate.  I then figured that your average starship spends maybe a
> couple of hours per jump skimming fuel from a gas giant, and that the
> view might be, shall we say, _inspirational_.  Thus, I offer the slang
> term "Gas-Giant Gang" as a Traveller equivalent to the "Mile-High Club."

The Three Dolphin club was invented by G. Harry Stine as a better name
thhan "Zero G club". The name is based on the factoid that due to the
low friction environment in water, it takes *three* dolphins to get it
on. He suggested that the same might be true in free fall.

Frankly, I don't think that there will be any sort of special club of
the sort you describe. After all, do we have "clubs" for folks who've
gotten it on while on an ocean going vessel? Nope. And we haven't been
sailing as long as humans have been using spacecraft in the Third
Imperium.

Consider, they've got 2000 years of jump drive just for the Solomani.
The Vilani have at least another thousand. Humans on Earth haven't deep
ocean vessels for much more than 1500 years. 

Space travel is *old* technology in Traveller. So old that we just
don't have the "feel" for it. 

Chemical rockets are a technology as old as *iron* tools are. Fusion
isn't a lot newer. Ditto for jump.

Fission power is likely to be regarded the way we regard water and wind
power. "Quaint" (even though there are "hi-tech" versions for
specialized uses).

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 02:41:59 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Fusion power and NTRs

I was just reading the lattest Analog. The Science fact article has an
interesting take on a *very* different way to build a fusion reactor.
Throw in some grav tech, and things might get *very* interesting.

Also, one of the stories "Outsider's Chance" uses NTRs and handles them
pretty well. Including a trick that *I* didn't see coming!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 02:45:22 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Creative use of Denitometers

In mail you write:

> On Fri, 6 Nov 1998, Joseph R. Dietrich wrote:
>
>> Hmm. What's the range on a densitometer? I wonder if these could be used to
>> provide targetting data. This would be a double-edged sword for pop-up
>> attackers, I suppose ...
>
> I recently had my players do something creative. The ship was grounded on
> a primitive planet, and for various reasons they couldn't take off right
> then, but they wanted to get the tanks refuelled asap. So the engineer
> takes his densitometer and starts checking for groundwater, rolls a
> spectacular success, and along with the group archaeologist's knowledge of
> geology, managed to find the water table. He then rigs up a drill and
> proceeds to sink a well and pump assembly to fill the tanks without moving
> the ship.
>
> He joked that he had just upgraded the planet's starport from X to D
> (unrefined fuel available)!

Given that a typical X port is a "bare, flat chunk of bedrock" this
actually works nicely. We just assume that the bedrock is a nice thick
lava flow. Under it you have a layer of sandstone that goes up into the
hills. The result is *pressurized* water. Drill thru the cap rock and
you get an artesian well. 

This would make you poular with the natives (a nearby water source in
an otherwise dry area) *and* gives you a source of unrefined fuel. And
the natives can hardly object to you using water you produced by "magic".

BTW, that *is* an important point. In a lot of landing areas, the
natives will *not* be happy if you use up tons of the local water,
given that water will tend to be scarce in the sort of areas that are
safe to land a ship without constructing a port first.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 02:26:58 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Medicine in Traveller 4 : Drugs, Poisons and Disease (long)'

In mail you write:

> At 18:17 5/11/98 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>>There are also several chemical agents developed for riot control that
>>may be of interest.
>>
>>An agent that lowers blood pressure. The effect is that you feel
>>light-headed and, if you don't sit down, you eventually pass out. And
>>after a while, the folks sitting down have to lie down or pass out. 
>>>From then until it starts to wear off, you have to lie flat on your
>>back or pass out. And if you get overly excited, you pass out. 
>
> I think you'd want to be working for someone who didn't into civil rights
> much before you used this one. If someone with already low BP or a weak
> heart got hit they could die, and not everyone in a riot is always a rioter.

I think that there's a limit on *how* far it can lower the pressure.
But frankly, the hazard is no worse than that of tear gas and a *lot*
better than firehoses or "rubber bullets".

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1111
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Saturday, November 7 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1112



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: More question 
Trav Riot Control (was: Re: Medicine in Traveller 4...)
Re: Fusion power and NTRs
Re: New Poster and GURPS: Traveller
HG and Long Range shootin'
Re: More questions
Re: Trav Riot Control (was: Re: Medicine in Traveller 4...)
Re: More question
Re: What are drop tanks? Additional questions
Subject: More question
Re: May I suggest a small change to the list?
Re: Taking The Hit
Re: New poster and GURPS:Traveller
Re: Trav Riot Control (was: Re: Medicine in Traveller 4...)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 07:31:09 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: More question 

> Simple question first:
> 
> 1. How do you pronounce "Ine Givar?"

I pronounce it EYE-nay GEE-var.

> Now the Jump drive questions:
> 
> 2. Can you do an EVA while in jumpspace?

Canonically, kinda sorta.  IMTU, it's *NOT* recommended
 
> 3. What do you see out the window while in a jump?

A lotta grey.  Kinda like when you looked at an old tv set on between channels.

> 4. Is the J-Drive actually working while in Jump Space or does it just work
> to get you to "break on through to the other side" )as Jim Morrison might
> say) then it goes cold and you wait for natural forces to dump you back into
> normal space?

Not sure about this one canonically, but IMTU, nope.
 
> 5. Can you force an emergency exit from jumpspace?

Nope.  If you spend more than a week in jumpspace, you can pretty much figure 
you've misjumped.  This doesn't mean you can break out.  Personally, I go for 
the 'constant tunnel' theory of how it works.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 09:14:35 -0600
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>
Subject: Trav Riot Control (was: Re: Medicine in Traveller 4...)

Leonard Erickson wrote:

>
>> At 18:17 5/11/98 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>
>>>There are also several chemical agents developed for riot control that
>>>may be of interest.
>>>
>>>An agent that lowers blood pressure. The effect is that you feel
>>>light-headed and, if you don't sit down, you eventually pass out. And
>>>after a while, the folks sitting down have to lie down or pass out.
>>>>From then until it starts to wear off, you have to lie flat on your
>>>back or pass out. And if you get overly excited, you pass out.
>>
>> I think you'd want to be working for someone who didn't into civil rights
>> much before you used this one. If someone with already low BP or a weak
>> heart got hit they could die, and not everyone in a riot is always a rioter.
>
>I think that there's a limit on *how* far it can lower the pressure.
>But frankly, the hazard is no worse than that of tear gas and a *lot*
>better than firehoses or "rubber bullets".


	Reminds me of an FSA solution to riots that I cooked up a while
back.  Hope nobody minds the repost...  Civil rights?  Shmivil rights!

>
>FSA OKA-SQ riot termination system
>
>
>News Item, Imperial Defense Weekly 04-193
>
>Dateline: Sylea, Famille Spofulam Orbital HQ
>
>Title: Famille Spofulam Armaments releases new riot termination weapon
>
>
>	"Yesterday, FSA launched their new OKA-SQ riot termination system,
>a vehicle-mounted rotary 5-barrel 18X62E ETC VRF shotgun.  Leem Ladjen,
>our police and paramilitary equipment editor, attended the launch, on
>board the Famille Spofulam Group's Orbital HQ:
>
>	'As usual, the reception for members of the press was nothing short
>of lavish; greeted at the VIP disembarkment ports by liveried FS liason
>staff, the media were quickly ushered into a large and tastefully
>decorated reception hall.  The wet bar and buffet were up to Famille
>Spofulam's usual megalomaniacal standards, and journalists,
>representatives of various governments, and [censored] were given time to
>mingle and chat it up with several FSA representatives.  Although most
>participants were extremely discreet, a large delegation from Mu were
>noted, including Baron Erghaan's notorious Chief of Secret Police,
>Looeehze Bodewoyn, who was most remarkable in her peaked cap, riding crop,
>and fitted leather uniform.
>
>	Eventually, after the remains of the buffet had been cleared away,
>we were ushered into a nearby theatre/shooting range.  Once all had been
>seated, Hengabar Spofulam, Famille Spofulam's hereditary patriarch, walked
>to the podium and began his presentation:
>
>	"Are your peasants or indentured labourers revolting?  Yes, of
>course they are, but if they're in a state of insurrection against your
>justifiably draconian regime, then they're even more revolting!
><chuckles>.  Bad jokes that have been stale since autocracy was invented
>aside, however, it is clear that on many worlds, the combination of high
>populations, when combined with the ungrateful resentment of justly severe
>law levels or rabble-rousing by outside agitators, can lead to
>reprehensible rioting and other forms of criminal mob violence.
>
>	Up until now, there has been a relative absence of relatively
>inexpensive weapons systems capable of putting a complete stop to riots in
>short periods of time.  This lacuna in the law enforcement arsenal of the
>Imperium has finally been addressed by Famille Spofulam Armaments.  Ladies
>and gentlemen, I give you the OKA-SQ-18X62E(5) Riot Termination System!"
>
>	The curtain behind Mr. Spofulam drew open, revealing a rather large
>ammunition hopper feeding a rather hefty-looking multibarreled VRF weapon,
>mounted for demonstration purposes on a cutaway turret mount.  50 meters
>down-range were arrayed several dozen Imperial Standard Ballistics Testing
>Dummies, colloquially known as Juice Bags to industry members, in
>life-like poses brandishing placards and spray cans or poised to throw
>rocks or primitive incendiary devices.  I quickly scanned the front row
>with my opera glasses; there in the front row was one ISBTD bearing a
>marked resemblance to Sir Arameth Gridlore of Gridlore Technologies, and
>wearing a jacket with the Gridlore Technologies logo.  I turned to my
>counterpart from Really Big Guns! magazine, smiled, and collected my 50
>credit wager.  To his credit, Higubaa paid up cheerfully.
>
>	Mr. Spofulam strode across the stage to the display, as a press
>release kit and weapons data were being uploaded to the audience's
>handcomps.  Seating himself at a control panel set up by the weapon, he
>donned hearing protectors, and activated the weapon.  The gun's five
>barrels quickly spun up to maximum RPM.  Then he depressed the firing stud
>and traversed the weapon back and forth across the simulated riot for an
>extremely noisy 10 seconds; 33.3 shotgun rounds per second makes a
>tremendous din.  Then he ceased fire.
>
>	The devastation wreaked upon the ISBTD's was horrific; not one was
>left standing, and those in the front row had been pretty much shredded;
>ISBTD Circulatory Fluid Analogue had been spread everywhere and was
>dripping down from the range ceiling.  By my calculations, the ISBTD's had
>been hit by something in the neighbourhood of 330 shotgun shells; assuming
>24 pellets per shell, the OKA-SQ had fired approximately 8000 pellets.
>The delegation from Mu, led by CSP Bodewoyn, leapt to their feet in a
>standing ovation"
>
>
>Name: 	FSA OKA-SQ-18X62E(5) RTS (Riot Termination System).
>Damage: 	4 (12).
>TL: 		12.
>Range:	Medium.
>Shots:	4000 (ROF 2000 RPM).
>Mass:		76 Kg empty, 246.5 loaded.
>Reloads:	243 Kg (4000-round cassette)
>Cost:		27860 Cr (includes 1 full cassette; bare gun is 3450).
>Reload cost:	20960 Cr.
>
>Notes: benefits from VRF +4 to-hit DM and my house rules give shotguns +2
>DM at the cost of increased damage attenuation.  Thus, under my house
>rules we're looking at a +6 DM to hit.  My house rules triple the base
>1-round damage rating for VRF weapons, so the 4 damage reflects the damage
>from a single round, which as per my previous post I've assumed to be
>identical to the 4-damage-dice 18mm shotgun round in the T4 manual.  So,
>under my house rules it would do 12 dice against an unarmoured target
>(splat!), or 3 dice against a target with armour rated at 3; hence the
>damage rating of 12.
>
>



Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 09:25:39 -0500
From: "Eric Freitas" <ericfreitas@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Fusion power and NTRs

Well, now that you've hooked us, how do they build this reactor?


- -----Original Message-----
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Cc: trav-tech@qrc.com <trav-tech@qrc.com>
Date: Saturday, November 07, 1998 7:15 AM
Subject: Fusion power and NTRs


>I was just reading the lattest Analog. The Science fact article has an
>interesting take on a *very* different way to build a fusion reactor.
>Throw in some grav tech, and things might get *very* interesting.
>
>Also, one of the stories "Outsider's Chance" uses NTRs and handles them
>pretty well. Including a trick that *I* didn't see coming!
>
>-- 
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 05:30:52 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: New Poster and GURPS: Traveller

Black ICE <wombat@premier.net> wrote

> And the moral of the story, children, is _never_ allow data of unknown
> properties play in your main computer, directly or indirectly.  ("Put
> those data down!  You don't know where they've been!")

Or to paraphrase something the public health people say about STD's : 
When your computer exchanges data with another computer you are
exchanging data with every computer they ever exchanged data with.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 08:40:49 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@shell.rt66.com>
Subject: HG and Long Range shootin'

Even though HG has abstract ranges, there're a couple of things that
give of sense of what goes on with range (can you tell I finally
found my copy of HG :-)

One, lasers don't have target agility as a DM, while sub-c weapons
do (except missiles, presumably because they can also maneuver).
Evasion (agility in HG) in reality works better at longer ranges
(all the math shows this).

Two, regarding non-evading targets, look at the section on use of
Black Globes... all fire automatically hits a BG that is on 100%.
Later it says that because the ship can't maneuver, it's position is
known because the predictions based on past movement will always be
correct. 

So even HG says you can't miss a non-evading target. That comment
could really be broadened to include any disabled target, (or
purposely non-evading (stations would fit this bill as well)).

BTW, I don't know how strictly this is adhered to in other TUs, but
HG says that mixed turrets have to be rated as one weapon, one
battery. So 2 triple mixed turrets (missile, laser, sandcaster)
would be 2 laser batteries, 2 msl, 2 sc--each with a factor for 1
weapon...

I was gonna mess with some pirate attacks using HG and Mayday, but
Mayday's scale is such that weapons fire is possible at extremely
long ranges. Also, there is nothing in any traveller combat system
about hitting the wrong target, so I guess it can't happen ;-) 

Size is a pretty course DM in HG, or you could use the added hull
sizes of both ships, and see if you made a hit on the "big" ship, or
rolled good enough to only hit the actual target (the pirate). This
meathod works great to hit specifc areas in other combat systems (if
you can hit a 1 ton missile, then why not a 1 ton sized area on a
200ton ship (or 0.1ton if its CT)?

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 17:11:34 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: More questions

N. Eric Phillips asks:

>Simple question first:
> 
>1. How do you pronounce "Ine Givar?"

The way it is spelled ;-).
 
>Now the Jump drive questions:
> 
>2. Can you do an EVA while in jumpspace?

Part of the jump drive creates a small bubble of real-space around the ship
that allows it to survive in jumpspace. The field is very close to the hull
(it's guided by the jump grid). Theoretically you could EVA if the field
extended far enough from the hull, but it seldoms does (I include the
weaseling because there is one recorded instance of someone surviving a
jump outside the ship. I forget the details, but it's mentioned in TAS
newsbriefs from 1112. Check the ImperiumGames (http://www.ImperiumGames.com)
website for details (Yes, it's still active; I'm visiting it right now).
 
>3. What do you see out the window while in a jump?

An octarine fog.

>4. Is the J-Drive actually working while in Jump Space or does it just work
>to get you to "break on through to the other side" )as Jim Morrison might
>say) then it goes cold and you wait for natural forces to dump you back into
>normal space?

Details about the jump drive vary with the exact rules set and also with
individual interpretations. Whichever way you interpret it, you get into
problems. The following answer is based on the way I think the various
evidence makes most sense. The jump drive consists of various parts. One
part uses power from the power plant to create a jump bubble, an area of
realspace contained by an energy field, around the ship; another part of
the drive uses an enormous amount of energy to breach the barrier between
realspace and jumpspace. Once across the barrier you're stuck inside
jumpspace until natural forces spits you out into realspace again, usually
about a week later. The jump bubble has to be maintained while in jumpspace
if you want to survive, but turning it off won't get you back into realspace
any sooner -- just much deader. (This should also answer your last question).

 
>5. Can you force an emergency exit from jumpspace?

 
Joe Pettit writes:

><sarcasm>
>You're not allowed to ask any of these questions as they would require
>defining and explaining how jumpspace works.  Since "canon" doesn't explain
>this, any definition would go against canon and thus you would start a huge
>flame war (again) regarding jumpspace.
></sarcasm>

Say rather that no detailed explanation that accounts for every single
feature of the way the canonical jump drive works and do not require
violating either one or more natural laws and/or one or more essential
background assumptions have ever been proposed. The _way_ the drive works
is well documented, however. 



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 08:14:02 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Trav Riot Control (was: Re: Medicine in Traveller 4...)

At 09:14 AM 11/7/98 -0600, you wrote:

>> I think you'd want to be working for someone who didn't into civil rights
>> much before you used this one. If someone with already low BP or a weak
>> heart got hit they could die, and not everyone in a riot is always a
>>rioter.

>I think that there's a limit on *how* far it can lower the pressure.
>But frankly, the hazard is no worse than that of tear gas and a *lot*
>better than firehoses or "rubber bullets".

Umm.. I have a rest BP of 90/60 most days.  (I'm just waiting for the
mothership to come and get me.)  An agent that would lower a normal human's
BP to the point of dizziness would drop me dead in my tracks.  The
condition is called posteral hypertension.  A lot of people have it to some
degree.

- --

+------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+------------------------------------+
|  111     Embrace Fascism.     111  |
|  |||  The uniforms look cool  |||  |
+------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 08:09:43 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: More question

At 10:36 PM 11/6/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Simple question first:
>
>1. How do you pronounce "Ine Givar?"

Nine without the n, Gi like for "gift", short a in var.

>Now the Jump drive questions:
>
>2. Can you do an EVA while in jumpspace?

Once.  The jump field is a bout a meter off the hull, and does very bad
things to those who get to close to it.

>3. What do you see out the window while in a jump?

An undulating gray mass.

Or Elvis.

>4. Is the J-Drive actually working while in Jump Space or does it just work
>to get you to "break on through to the other side" )as Jim Morrison might
>say) then it goes cold and you wait for natural forces to dump you back into
>normal space?

I think we've decided that the jumpdrive is only active when making the
entry into j-space.  That's why it needs all that damn fuel right then.

>5. Can you force an emergency exit from jumpspace?

No.

- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 17:24:53 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: What are drop tanks? Additional questions

Peter H. Brenton writes:

>As for expense, full life support, including heat, lights, atmosphere,
>water, food, sealed environment and waste recycling in Megatraveller has
>the following costs;
>
>Volume; .013 kl per kl of hull
>Cost;  cr510 per kl of hull
>weight; .013 tons per kl of hull
>power;  .004 MW per kl of hull.

You forgot the expendables. In MT, as in all the other Traveller versions,
each passenger and crew means an gross expenditure on the part of the ship
accounts of Cr2000 per jump (14 days at the most). As you know, I don't
think those espenses are plausible, but they are canonical.

However, the real flaw in your proposal is that you can't use fuel from
collapsible tanks directly in the jump drive. Don't ask me why. I've been
unable to come up with a reason why fuel from collapsible tanks are less
usable than fuel from rigid tanks. But the rules says you can't. You can
use demountable tanks, but demountable tanks are rigid and require 14
days to install/remove. You can carry an extra load of fuel in collapsible
tanks and transfer it to rigid tanks before using it for a second jump. But
you can't use fuel directly from collapsible tanks.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 10:42:31 -0600
From: Andrew Akins <igor@truserve.com>
Subject: Subject: More question

On Fri, 6 Nov 1998,  N. Eric Phillips <stilleon@io.com> wrote:
>2. Can you do an EVA while in jumpspace?
>
>3. What do you see out the window while in a jump?
>
>4. Is the J-Drive actually working while in Jump Space or does it just work
>to get you to "break on through to the other side" )as Jim Morrison might
>say) then it goes cold and you wait for natural forces to dump you back into
>normal space?
>
>5. Can you force an emergency exit from jumpspace?

I'm not sure about the "canonness" of the Starship Operators Manual (I know
some people consider DGP canon, others don't) - and I can't say if this is
contradicted anywhere else (I don't think it is, but I'm not sure).

Jump space is seen as a formless, wavy, gray space. Many people consider it
nausious to look at. The Jump field keeps jump space a few feet away from
the hull. This field is necessary, because JS is lethal when sophonts are
exposed directly to it. Thus, you can EVA in jumpspace...just stay under
the field, 'cause if you touch JS, you die.

IMTU, the jump drive is active all the time in jump to keep field integrity
tight. If the drive is cut off, the field slowly begins to collapse
(allowing it to be taken off line for short repairs, etc).

Also IMTU, once the tunnel is formed you're in for a 1 week jump-distance
ride...there's no emergency break out. If your drive fails, you're gonna
die (when JS intrudes into the ship).

Your milage may vary.
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                        |
| Home: igor@truserve.com - www.truserve.com/~igor/ - AIM: Iowa Akins |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/ - AIM: CMS AndyA    |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU: tc++(**) ru+ ge 3i+ jt- au+ ls+ kk+ hi+ as+ va+ dr+ so+ zh+   |
|       vi+ da+                                                       |
| Geek: GCS d- s+:+ a- C++ W++ w+++(-)$ PS+ PE t- 5++ X+ R+++ tv+     |
|       b+++ DI+ D-- G e+ h---- r+++ y++++                            |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 09:03:55 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: May I suggest a small change to the list?

At 01:09 pm 11/4/98 -0500, you wrote:
>This was proposed last year and we changed it for a few days to see
how it was
>liked.  There was a 51% against / 49% for, so we didn't go for it.
If you are
>using mail software that filters, it shouldn't be an issue.  All
mail should
>have a From: line of traveller@mpgn.com

	I've set Eudora to sort on "Sender:" contains "owner-traveller"
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 09:12:42 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Taking The Hit

At 03:48 pm 11/4/98 -0700, you wrote:
>The Patriots _psychological_ advantage, OTOH, helped dramatically,
>primarily by keeping Israel from turning Bahgdad into a large puddle
of
>slag in the desert.

	And this would have been bad because ... ?
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 17:56:56 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: New poster and GURPS:Traveller

Brandon Quina writes:

>Intresting.  I imagine there's alot more information in those book
>than is located in the 62 pages of Library Data in Chapter 2 of GURPS:
>Traveller.  Shame I can't get ahold of them;  they'd no doubt be a
>very intresting read and probally useful too.  No local book stores that
>carry anything that's not in print--  or atleast, not any traveller
>stuff thats not in print.  

Check out Mark Seemann's web pages (http://www2.dk-online.dk/users/
mark_seemann/traveller.htm). He has a lot of library data posted.
  
>>Furthermore, each domain also has an order named after it (Order of
>>Vland, Order of Sol, Order of Antares, etc.). Titles are given out for
>>these by the Archduke of the domain. The Order of Sylea is
>>administered by the Emperor himself, the defacto Archduke of Sylea.
> 
>Intresting fact about the Emperor being the defacto Archduke of Sylea.

"De facto" implies that he only functions as the Archduke of Sylea. He
IS Archduke of Sylea in addition to being Emperor. Just as Norris is
Archduke of Deneb, Duke of Regina (subsector), Count Aledon, and Marquis
of Regina (system)all at the same time. Presumably the Emperor have a
string of minor (relatively minor, that is; as I've pointed out before,
many imperial barons are propably more powerful than any emperor we've
ever had on Earth) noble titles as well. 

>>***Baron: Lowest level of nobility accorded membership in the peerage.
>>In layman's terms, the lowest rank a noble can attain and be viewed as
>>a noble by other nobles. A person awarded the rank of baron usually
>>gets a small fief of land, not often greater than 100 square
>>kilometers.
> 
>	Would would that fief be, and where?  As I understood it,
>most worlds are pretty much left to their own devices.  I'd imagine
>only areas of intrest to the Imperium would have a baron.  Starports,
>naval bases, depots, science research stations, and other small
>installations and locations that are of intrest.

A few weeks ago I posted an essay with a suggestion for how the Imperial
nobility worked in broad, general terms. Ordinarily I'd consider it a bit
too soon to repost it, but since I got no feedback except for two "well
done"s, I'll take the opportunity to solicit criticism of it again. IMO
it fits the available canonical information to a T.

>>***Marquis: A marquis is associated with a single world (generally a
>>large or important one with a Class A or B Starport).
> 
>	So?  They rule the worlds that the Imperium want to govern
>directly? Is it a special thing, or are all worlds given Marquis
>who are pretty much free to govern the world as they wish within
>certain limits??  I imagine, from the opinions of others on the list,
>that a cut and dry answer isn't given anywhere...

Quite right. Here's my take on it:

In theory the structure of the Imperium is very simple: Each star system
constitutes a sovereignty governed in any way its inhabitants see fit. As
members of the Imperium these sovereignties have surrendered certain of
their rights to the Emperor; they agree to let him collect and administer
a certain percentage of their annual production, to obey a number of basic
laws (the Imperial High Laws), to let him tax certain activities, and to
leave foreign relations with non-Imperial states to him. The Emperor turns
over these rights to his vassals in return for fealthy and these vassals in
turn parcel them out to lesser vassals. Each star system thus have two
associated authorities: its own government administering system affairs and
an Imperial noble administering Imperial affairs.
        That's the theory. Human nature (and most alien natures too) being
what it is, it is no surprise that in practice exceptions abound. Indeed, it
could be said that the exceptions are the norm.
        MULTI-SYSTEM SOVEREIGNTIES: The Imperium frown on multi-system
sovereignties, but quite a number of these exist. In the early days of the
Imperium many pocket empires joined it as a unit. Whenever possible the
Imperium tries to break these up eventually, but a number still exists even
today. On occasion the Imperium has even been obliged to form some of its
own to meet exceptional political problems; the largest and most famous
examples are the Antarean and Solomani Autonomous regions. A more frequent
source of multi-system sovereignties are the planting of colonies by member
systems. Imperial policy favors the granting of full membership to colony
worlds that have grown big enough to make it on their own (which is why some
colonies are deliberately kept much smaller than optimum by their mother
worlds), but if a former colony prefers union with their mother world there
is not much the Imperium can do about it. Mega-corporations and the largest
sector-wide companies constitutes another kind of multi-system sovereignty.
        IMPERIAL WORLD LEADERS: The principle of having two different kinds
of leaders, system leaders and Imperial nobles, frequently run afoul of the
pride and ambition of powerful world leaders, especially if they are
hereditary rulers. It often becomes a political necessity to appoint them
Imperial nobles. Thus the Matriarch of Mora is both the head of the Moran
government and the Duchess of Mora Subsector. The reverse can also happen.
An unscrupulous Imperial noble assigned to a young, developing world is in a
very good position to acquire title to vast tracts of land. In some cases he
can end up owning, or at least running, the whole world.
	IMPERIALLY OWNED WORLDS: Over the years the Imperium have acquired
outright ownership of a lot of real estate including a number of whole
worlds. When that is the case, the noble assigned to it controls both its
internal and its Imperial affairs.
        
Imperial nobles have two different kinds of fiefs. One is a personal fief
granted to him in order to provide him with a secure income. Money
derived from personal fiefs go into the noble's private accounts and are
theoretically his to spend as he wants (in practice nobles with really
big personal incomes may be expected to contribute some of that wealth
for various semi-official purposes). This kind of fief is sometimes also
called an estate (An Imperial estate to distinguish it from a personal
estate which the noble own in his own right). The size and value of an
Imperial estate can vary tremendously. Not only may the Emperor give purely
symbolic estates to nobles who are rich in their own right and substantial
estates to others who are less well endowed, but a relatively poor estate
granted centuries earlier may have grown in value over the years.

	The other kind of fief is the kind described in the first paragraph
of this article, the power to collect and administer (or in the case of
lesser nobles, to collect and pass on to higher authorities) Imperial taxes.
This is also sometimes called a charge.

It is usually said that each Imperial world has a marquis associated with it.
This is true if the world is of reasonably high tech level and has a
population level of 7 or 8. The Imperial taxes from such a world comes to
something between MCr1000 and MCr100,000. Any world with taxes less than
MCr1000 will propably only rate a baron. A world with taxes higher than
MCr100,000 rates a count. Some worlds are too small to rate even a baron.
Such worlds are usually part of a neighboring fief.
 
Rank            Charge                  Typical estate         Typical value

Knight          -                       -                       -
Banneret        -                       10 square kilometers    MCr5
Baron           Part of world           100 sq km               MCr50
Marquis         One world               1000 sq km              MCr500
Count           Several worlds          10,000 sq km            MCr5,000
Duke            Subsector/sector        100,000 sq km           MCr50,000
Archduke        Domain                  Entire world            MCr500,000




      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 10:17:40 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Trav Riot Control (was: Re: Medicine in Traveller 4...)

At 08:14 am 11/7/98 -0800, you wrote:
>At 09:14 AM 11/7/98 -0600, you wrote:
>
>>> I think you'd want to be working for someone who didn't into
civil rights
>>> much before you used this one. If someone with already low BP or
a weak
>>> heart got hit they could die, and not everyone in a riot is
always a
>>>rioter.
>
>>I think that there's a limit on *how* far it can lower the
pressure.
>>But frankly, the hazard is no worse than that of tear gas and a
*lot*
>>better than firehoses or "rubber bullets".
>
>Umm.. I have a rest BP of 90/60 most days.  (I'm just waiting for
the

	Ain't it a pain? Had a hard time at a blood drive once--BP of 84/62,
pulse of about 45. The nurse thought I was dead ...
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1112
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Saturday, November 7 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1113



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: What are drop tanks? Additional questions
Re: More question
Re: Trav Riot Control (was: Re: Medicine in Traveller 4...)
Re: Phooey on canon
Re: More question
Re: New poster and GURPS:Traveller
Re: [TTL] Fusion power and NTRs 
Re: Trav Riot Control (was: Re: Medicine in Traveller 4...)
Re: What are drop tanks? Additional questions
Re: More questions
Re: More question
Re: More question
Re: More question
Re: Weapons hits (Re: Taking The Hit)
Noble Ranks Expansion
Re: What are drop tanks? Additional questions
Re: More question
Robots
Re: More question 
Re: Grav Tanks
Re: Medicine in Traveller 4 : Drugs, Poisons and Disease (long)'
Re: Grav tank configs (Back on Topic)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 12:20:24 -0500
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: What are drop tanks? Additional questions

- -----Original Message-----
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Saturday, November 07, 1998 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: What are drop tanks? Additional questions


>
>You forgot the expendables. In MT, as in all the other Traveller versions,
>each passenger and crew means an gross expenditure on the part of the ship
>accounts of Cr2000 per jump (14 days at the most). As you know, I don't
>think those espenses are plausible, but they are canonical.

>
Hans!!!!  Something we completely agree on buddy.......
>
>However, the real flaw in your proposal is that you can't use fuel from
>collapsible tanks directly in the jump drive. Don't ask me why. I've been
>unable to come up with a reason why fuel from collapsible tanks are less
>usable than fuel from rigid tanks. But the rules says you can't. You can
>use demountable tanks, but demountable tanks are rigid and require 14
>days to install/remove. You can carry an extra load of fuel in collapsible
>tanks and transfer it to rigid tanks before using it for a second jump. But
>you can't use fuel directly from collapsible tanks.
>
>      Hans Rancke
>
I wondered many times about this myself.  The only point that I could come
up with (and it's flawed) is they can't pump the fuel out of the collapsable
tanks fast enough to get to the jump drives.  This seems to me the only
reason it wouldn't work and this is based on the rules about jump drive in
the Starship Operator's Handbook.  But as with other things you could always
figure out a work around so that it is possible (talking about slowness of
flow in my suggestion) if you tried hard enough I would think.  That's why I
said it was flawed...... I'll have to think about it some more.

Thom

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 12:31:32 -0500
From: Brandon Quina <lore@tmgbbs.com>
Subject: Re: More question

> 	However, due to the "unique topography" of Jump Space it's
> something like a misjump, only much, much worse.  Imagine cutting the
> J-Drive and finding yourself in deep, deep space really, really far
> away from home.

Or imagine a stowaway severly damaging the ship and pointing you
towards the sun, forcing you to jump without properly using the
computers to find out where you'll end up after the jump is done.
*Then*, imagine finding yourself far far far away from home with
your wife, your three kids, a robot, and the stowaway.  Ohhh, and
a hotshot pilot too, silly of me to forget.




- -- 
Brandon,

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 09:36:26 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Trav Riot Control (was: Re: Medicine in Traveller 4...)

At 10:17 AM 11/7/98 -0700, you wrote:
>At 08:14 am 11/7/98 -0800, I wrote:

>>Umm.. I have a rest BP of 90/60 most days.  (I'm just waiting for
>the
>
>	Ain't it a pain? Had a hard time at a blood drive once--BP of 84/62,
>pulse of about 45. The nurse thought I was dead ...

Try going to your doctor and having a platelet count of ZERO.  None.  Nada.
 Confirmed by observation of the sample.  Dr. Waltuch actually looked at me
and asked what planet I was from.

I told him Vland.


- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 18:45:03 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Phooey on canon

Chris Seamans writes:

>>If you could find out about it by asking for feedback on the TML but
>>didn't, you didn't bother enough IMO.
> 
>You'll also have to assume, at one point, that if Traveller wins back some
>popularity then not all writers will find their way onto this list.

Maybe. But am I really too far out in believing that one of the requirements
for editing official Traveller material ought to be a thourough knowledge of
the official Traveller universe? (This is IMO one of the reasons why Imperium
games products were not of uniformly high quality, to put it politely).

>>>Many bits of canon are already self-contradicting. To many people, a
>>>majority of the Traveller universe is very, very unlikely.
>>
>>Yes, and that's why I advocate keeping some canon and adjusting other
>canon.
> 
> 
>In a broad sense, what to keep and what to revise?

I tried to make my opinion clear in my original post. If something has been
published in an official Traveller product, isn't self-contradictory, and
does not contradict other official sources, then it should stay, regardless
of what I think of it personally. If I don't like it, I can change it in my
own TU, but I have to accept it for the OTU. An example would be the whole
Rebellion thing. I'm not too crazy about it (if I ever get my campaign
going again, my players are going to get a chance to pull most of the
Imperium together again).

If a canonical fact is inconsistent, it should be revised. In principle the
smallest possible revision that will make it consistent with the rest of
the OTU, but if it has to be revised anyway, one may as well pick a new
version with greater role-playing potential if one can come up with one.

If two canonical facts are mutually contradictory and one has vastly more
role-playing potential than the other, the better one should be chosen.

If two canonical facts are mutually contradictory and one is only a little
bit better than the other, the earliest one should be chosen, even if the
new one is the better.

Of course there are gray areas. If something is physically possible, but
very, very implausible, does it qualify as 'self-contradictory'? That, I
think, is where most of the disagreements on the TML lies. For instance,
that signed Imperial Warrant in the safe of the KINUNIR. I have to admit
that the Emperor COULD issue signed Imperial Warrants that didn't specify
who was authorized to use it. But I don't think that any same Emperor would
ever do so. So does that mean that the PCs can't use that warrant (Except
for getting a big reward for bringing it to its rightful owner). IMO yes.
If someone wrote an adventure with a 'blank' Imperial Warrant as a
gimick, do I think the editor should have squashed it? Yes. Would I
consider it a big enough problem to excuse making the adventure uncanonical?
Yes. But I also realize that not everybody will agree with me. That's where
a Supreme Decider is useful.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 11:52:21 -0600
From: Ryan Dooley <ryan@coe.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: More question

Hey Ho,

>>Now the Jump drive questions:
>>
>>2. Can you do an EVA while in jumpspace?

Sure if you hug the hull of your ship and dont' sit up...  The jump
field is about a meter above the hull.
 
>>3. What do you see out the window while in a jump?
> 
> An undulating gray mass.
> 
> Or Elvis.
> 

I described j-space as being an unending bright white infinity ... most
jump capable ships close their viewports (well, in my traveller
universe, most viewports are holographic panels relaying data from
external sensors), and display a more pleasent surrounding.  Kinda like
that opening shot from Aliens where Ripley is sitting in an artifical
garden.

> I think we've decided that the jumpdrive is only active when making the
> entry into j-space.  That's why it needs all that damn fuel right then.
> 
>>5. Can you force an emergency exit from jumpspace?
> 
> No.

OK, what happens if just cut the jump drive? ... I always thought you'd
reappear in normal space in the same place where you started your jump
from (since the 'tunnel' as I always envisioned it wasn't compeleted
(from start point to finish point), ie, the wormhole just collapsed.)

cheers,
	--ryan

  ryan@coe.missouri.edu ... (573) 882-2162 ... [573] 884=5158
  UTUP 0201 B-000A0A-A-B-8

  Key fingerprint = C2 61 A8 2E D4 93 57 1F  68 1D 2D 54 F3 51 70 B0

  Under US Code Title 47, Sec.227(b)(1)(C), Sec.227(a)(2)(B)
  This email address may not be added to any commercial mail list with out
  my permission.  Violation of my privacy with advertising or SPAM will
  result in a suit for a MINIMUM of $500 damages/incident, $1500 for repeats.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 19:04:12 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: New poster and GURPS:Traveller

Chris Seamans writes:

>***Marquis: A marquis is associated with a single world (generally a large
>or important one with a Class A or B Starport).
> 
>***Count: Associated with two or three worlds in a subsector.

One thing you have to look out for: GURPS:Traveller has reversed the
position of the Count and the Marquis so that in G:T a count is
associated with one world and inferior to a marquis who is associated
with several worlds. (Someone told me that this change came already in
T4, but when last I checked I couldn't find it; am I mistaken?)

I for one think that was a really bad choice. I know all about how marquis
is above count/earl in the European system, and I don't know if the original
author made a mistake way back when, but I always considered that a charming
detail that illustrated that the Imperium was not just a cut and paste of any
Old Earth society (for that matter, the system leaves out viscounts entirely
(the fit between barons and earls in the English peerage) and that hasn't
been changed in the G:T system. I don't understand what purpose the change
made. Anyway, enough bellyaching. Just keep in mind that whenever you are
dealing with a G:T source you have to make sure that the author was aware of
the change and reverse it back again if he was.
 

      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 11:12:05 -0800
From: George Herbert <gherbert@crl.com>
Subject: Re: [TTL] Fusion power and NTRs 

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>I was just reading the lattest Analog. The Science fact article has an
>interesting take on a *very* different way to build a fusion reactor.
>Throw in some grav tech, and things might get *very* interesting.

I posted a URL to a DASA/UIUC project using this spherical
grid reactor to trav-tech and tml last night.  Nifty stuff.

>Also, one of the stories "Outsider's Chance" uses NTRs and handles them
>pretty well. Including a trick that *I* didn't see coming!

Another one of Geoffrey Landis' stories.  Afterburning NTRs
(putting oxygen into the stream to get a bit more energy and
lots more thrust) have been discussed, but have problems as
a normal operational mode (less Isp, lots of damage to the
NTR due to oxygen corrosion).

- -george

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 14:51:19 EST
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Trav Riot Control (was: Re: Medicine in Traveller 4...)

In a message dated 11/7/98 9:33:35 AM Pacific Standard Time,
goldendj@pcisys.net writes:

<< >Umm.. I have a rest BP of 90/60 most days.  (I'm just waiting for
 the
 
 	Ain't it a pain? Had a hard time at a blood drive once--BP of 84/62,
 pulse of about 45. The nurse thought I was dead ... >>
	
	Back in 96 when I had my first real life-threatening episode of Pneumocystic
pneumonia (PCP)...my BP was 87/58...I wondered why they suddenly started
asking about living wills and next of kin...:-)

Dusty

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 14:54:31 EST
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: What are drop tanks? Additional questions

In a message dated 11/7/98 9:37:15 AM Pacific Standard Time,
thomharr@mediaone.net writes:

<< I wondered many times about this myself.  The only point that I could come
 up with (and it's flawed) is they can't pump the fuel out of the collapsable
 tanks fast enough to get to the jump drives. >>

	Perhaps it's because you need to have the fuel in the main tank for it to be
properly pumped to the reactor.  After all, in the Real World (tm), you can't
draw fuel from a gas can in the trunk of your car to run it's engine, right?

Dusty

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 15:06:09 -0800
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: More questions

>
> ><sarcasm>
> >You're not allowed to ask any of these questions as they would require
> >defining and explaining how jumpspace works.  Since "canon" doesn't explain
> >this, any definition would go against canon and thus you would start a huge
> >flame war (again) regarding jumpspace.
> ></sarcasm>
>
> Say rather that no detailed explanation that accounts for every single
> feature of the way the canonical jump drive works and do not require
> violating either one or more natural laws and/or one or more essential
> background assumptions have ever been proposed. The _way_ the drive works
> is well documented, however.

No, the RULES for jump drives are well documented, but as best as I can tell,
Jump drives are pretty much black boxes.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 15:25:59 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: More question

At 10:36 PM 11/6/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Simple question first:
>
>1. How do you pronounce "Ine Givar?"

Ine Givar

>Now the Jump drive questions:
>
>2. Can you do an EVA while in jumpspace?

Yes, and no. If you stay within the energy grid maintained by the jump
capacitors, you can EVA normaly. Problem is, this grid is almost skin
tight, so you would only be able to work in open bays, hull breaches, etc.

You cannot, however, cross the grid. The energy would fry you. I believe
the penalty for downing the grid is the immediate distruction of your
vessle due to exposure to the nothingness of jump space. Same would happen
to a crewmember if somehow exposure occured.

>3. What do you see out the window while in a jump?

Big blue haze<babylon 5> and the occasional large black spider-looking ship
</babylon 5>.

>4. Is the J-Drive actually working while in Jump Space or does it just work
>to get you to "break on through to the other side" )as Jim Morrison might
>say) then it goes cold and you wait for natural forces to dump you back into
>normal space?

The jump drive is used to get you into jump space on basically a "jump
trajectory". Your basically on a type of ballistic path, you cannot
maneuver or anything, which is not a problem since no one can interact with
you in jumpspace. Once you are at the end of your path or approaching the
100d range band of the destination world, you exit.

>5. Can you force an emergency exit from jumpspace?

Refer to reply to number 4.

Wonder if you can do something similar to the "Bone Head" maneuver from
Babylon 5, try to initiate a jump while in jumpspace. Is there a second
layer to jumpspace or would this put you into an alternate universe? It
wouldn't work to bring you back into normal space, but what if...?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 15:51:03 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: More question

>>>5. Can you force an emergency exit from jumpspace?
>> 
>> No.
>
>OK, what happens if just cut the jump drive? ... I always thought you'd
>reappear in normal space in the same place where you started your jump
>from (since the 'tunnel' as I always envisioned it wasn't compeleted
>(from start point to finish point), ie, the wormhole just collapsed.)

Cutting the jump engine does nothing except prevent full entry into jump
space. The jump engines charge a set of capacitors (the ones you use with
the globes) which keep the charge constant to the jump field, then gives
you a not so gentile boot out of this universe on an extradimentional
ballistic trajectory to your destination. Once your in jumpspace, the jump
engines are off, and these capacitors simply maintain the field integrity.
Most of the fuel is used in the final boot into jumpspace, which is why if
your jump capacitors are filled from your globe, you still need fuel to
make a jump.

Premature discharge of the above mentioned capacitors will result in a sort
of implosion which will basically atomise your ship as jumpspace comes
crashing in.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 12:52:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Roberto Camino <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: More question

- ---Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net> wrote:
> Wonder if you can do something similar to the "Bone Head" maneuver
from Babylon 5, try to initiate a jump while in jumpspace. Is there a
second layer to jumpspace or would this put you into an alternate
universe? It wouldn't work to bring you back into normal space, but
what if...?
> 

Let's see, you'd need to install a second jump drive and seperate fuel
supply.  Then you'd need different or modified controls (probably a
second computer).  Then you'd want to figure out how to point the
stupid thing and how to build a field inside a field (can you imagine
the shearing strength of two fields adjacent one another!).  Best I
can figure, I wouldn't want to be looking out the window during the
second jump =:-o



==
- ------------------------><>------------------------
IMTU 0601 tc++ tm !tn t4+ ?tg ru++ 3i pi ta+ he+ 

=>UTUP 0309 0-400A04C-5-8-2<=

You might be a Traveller fanatic if...
your resume includes a UPP and skill listing!
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 15:36:38 -0600
From: David Smart <warlock@imagin.net>
Subject: Re: Weapons hits (Re: Taking The Hit)

Anson Betts posted:
>
>>Merrick, on starship combat:
>>
>>>true in CT as well, weapon hits have always been too likely, but I
>>>guess you assume that the damage tables only count "good" hits).
>>
>>
>>I always assumed these type of hits not only included the weapon system
>>itself, but also the power grid that supplied the weapons. This made it
>>marginally more believable for me.
>>
>>BTW, I found a variant starship damage table for MT I came up with several
>>years ago, the biggest difference being that all hits were rated according
>>to the Superficial/Minor/Major/Destroyed system in the MT task system. It's
>>typewritten, and I though about scanning it in to make a digital copy.
>>Would anyone like to see it?
>>
>Yes please :)
>
>Cheers,
> Anson

That makes two of us. I'd *love* to see this damage table for MT!

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 15:43:36 -0600
From: David Smart <warlock@imagin.net>
Subject: Noble Ranks Expansion

Some months ago (okay, last year maybe) someone posted their
expansion of Noble ranks (about 14 levels as I recall). Would
that someone mind reposting it again? Some bit of cosmic
radiation or whatever had the audacity to corrupt the file on
my harddrive.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 10:48:04 +1300
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: Re: What are drop tanks? Additional questions

- -----Original Message-----
From: DustyLV769@aol.com <DustyLV769@aol.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Sunday, 8 November 1998 09:25
Subject: Re: What are drop tanks? Additional questions


>In a message dated 11/7/98 9:37:15 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>thomharr@mediaone.net writes:
>
><< I wondered many times about this myself.  The only point that I could come
> up with (and it's flawed) is they can't pump the fuel out of the collapsable
> tanks fast enough to get to the jump drives. >>
>
> Perhaps it's because you need to have the fuel in the main tank for it to be
>properly pumped to the reactor.  After all, in the Real World (tm), you can't
>draw fuel from a gas can in the trunk of your car to run it's engine, right?


But you _can_ hand-pump gas from 44 gallon drums in the interior
of your aircraft into the aircraft's real fuel tanks while in flight...
Used to be standard practice in the less airport-ridden parts of
the world.

It's also pretty easy to fit an electric pump and a bit of plastic
pipe betwen your gas can and the fuel tank before you start
driving. Not very safe though.

Still, that could be slow, so if you assume that the fuel is used in
one big lump
at  the start of jump, then this isn't possible.  If it's being used
throughout
the trip, however....

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 23:27:48 +0100
From: "Jonas Karlsson" <Jonas.Karlsson@baldakinen.umea.se>
Subject: Re: More question

> From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
> > 3. What do you see out the window while in a jump?
> A lotta grey.  Kinda like when you looked at an old tv set on
> between channels.

So, basically, Jumpspace is Chiba City?

"The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead
channel."

;-)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 17:39:06 -0800
From: "George Royal" <groyal@isoa.net>
Subject: Robots

Greetings Everyone;

I have been lurking on TML for over a year and have gotten many
extremely useful ideas for my Traveller Universe (which has not been
played in since 1992, other than vehicle, world, and starship design
that I have done.  I started playing in 1983 and my universe is mostly
CT/MT, Classic Era, no rebellion.

I was reading through Vilani/Vargr and Aslan/Solomani recently( for
umpteenth time)and was reading craft profile for the four robots used
for examples.  I have Book 8 and Vampire Fleets(TNE) and have used these
design sequences to create robots. I assume that the robots in V\V and
A/S were a bastardization of Book 8 design and MT Craft Design.  I do
not have 101 Robots (in fact, I've never seen a copy), and I'm not sure
if it was CT or MT oriented.  If any one can tell me if these robots
were designed by a design sequence I may not have, I would appreciate
the info.  I also would like to hear any comments on any of these design
sequences.

Thanks,

George Royal

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 17:52:21 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: More question 

> > From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
> > > 3. What do you see out the window while in a jump?
> > A lotta grey.  Kinda like when you looked at an old tv set on
> > between channels.
> 
> So, basically, Jumpspace is Chiba City?
> 
> "The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead
> channel."

No, it just *LOOKS* that way.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 11:36:57 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Grav Tanks

At 19:07 7/11/98 +1300, Frank Pitt wrote:

>Personally, I think a  grav tank with side ball turrets
>sort of  like the old WWI Mark I  would make sense.
>
>Both turrets will be capable of firing up, down, front
>and back. with each of them covering a side. The
>top would be free for sensor arays or other
>weaponry .
>
>I doubt the reasoning behind top turrets in modern
>tanks  ( being able to reduce overal height and firing
>from hull-down positions ) will mean very much in
>a grav-propelled, fusion-weaponed environment
>
>I suspect the turrets would be "popped" for action
>like the weapons pod of the F119, to reduce drag
>and sensor signature during transit

Being of the "Grav-Tanks that GO High Will Die" school of thought I can't
see any reason not to put the turret on top, and several resons to do so.
Basically as your belly is always going to be close to the ground in a
combat situation you don't need to be able to fire down any more than a
tracked tank does.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 11:40:09 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Medicine in Traveller 4 : Drugs, Poisons and Disease (long)'

At 02:26 7/11/98 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:

>I think that there's a limit on *how* far it can lower the pressure.
>But frankly, the hazard is no worse than that of tear gas and a *lot*
>better than firehoses or "rubber bullets".

Ture. However clareless use of teargas can get a copper in a lot of trouble
in many places.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 11:25:08 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Grav tank configs (Back on Topic)

At 16:49 6/11/98 -0800, Douglas E. Berry wrote:

>>For a vehicle that moves more slowly (NOE speed at TL15 is only 190kph)
>>there needs to be more side protection, and less top and bottom protection.
>>This craft is not making passing attacks (although it can), its going up
>>against other grav tanks in a game of hide-manuver-popup&shoot-hide again.
>>it is difficult to predict which face will take the hit - except that it is
>>unlikely to be attacked from above or below.  Since everyone will be
>>hugging the terrain it is pretty much a 2D battlespace.
>
>At last!  Someone else who sees this the way I do..  If there is one lesson
>that we've learned from modern warfare is that no matter how advanced the
>technology, staying low and hiding is always a good idea.  One of the main
>reasons for the US army switching to the 5.56mm standard was the
>realization that most infantry encounters happen at less than 200m.  Having
>a heavy rifle that was accurate out to 1km was a waste, when that weight
>could be better used for additional ammo.
>
>The same holds true for tankers.. except for desert warfare, most tanks
>encounter each other at fairly short ranges.  This makes crew training and
>morale the most important factor in any technologically-balanced force.  In
>late 1944, the Russians had achieve parity with the Germans in tank
>technology, but the Russian crews were experienced, whereas most of the
>best German crews were dead.  Made a great deal of difference on the
>Eastern Front.

I've been saying this sort of thing for a while, too. However nobody seemed
to be listening. I think that Gulf War footage rots people's brains.

Ever since I started thinking about the likely detectability of grav
drives, and probable result of being at 5000m when the AAA decides to go
active and start shooting with a VRF Fusion gun I decicded that multirole
grav tank-planes were a dumb idea. Not agile enough to be missed, not
armoured enough to avoid penetration. Not only that but being above NOE is
going to make it much easier for Ortillery to get a shot at you, and an
orbital laser battery is going to make your hull look like a seive in short
order once they get that lock.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1113
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Sunday, November 8 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 1114



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Taking The Hit
Re: HG and Long Range shootin'
re: More question
Re Questions
Re: Ship Design. Sane and otherwise.
Re: Robots
re: Taking the Hit
Re: Robots
re: More Questions
re: Ship Design
re: More Questions
Re: HG and Long Range shootin'
Re: What are drop tanks? Additional Questions
Robots today
Re: More question
Re: Taking The Hit
Re: More question
Re: More questions
Roth Thokken Vargr Version 1.0

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 11:51:09 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Taking The Hit

At 09:12 7/11/98 -0700, Dave Golden wrote:
>At 03:48 pm 11/4/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>The Patriots _psychological_ advantage, OTOH, helped dramatically,
>>primarily by keeping Israel from turning Bahgdad into a large puddle
>of
>>slag in the desert.
>
>	And this would have been bad because ... ?

All those down wind would have become really pissed (aside from glowing in
the dark).

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 11:48:50 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: HG and Long Range shootin'

At 08:40 7/11/98 -0700, Merrick Burkhardt wrote:

>Size is a pretty course DM in HG, or you could use the added hull
>sizes of both ships, and see if you made a hit on the "big" ship, or
>rolled good enough to only hit the actual target (the pirate). This
>meathod works great to hit specifc areas in other combat systems (if
>you can hit a 1 ton missile, then why not a 1 ton sized area on a
>200ton ship (or 0.1ton if its CT)?

That's basically where I got my +1DM to lock and shooting for hit a
specific location in BL: As at any one time you should be able to see 10 of
the 20 locations each location is 1/10 of the apparent size of the target.
In BL the hull sizes go up by a factor of ten at each step, so one hit
location is the same as a ship one size smaller. The only thing that
bothers me is that I have a feeling that to get this sort of lock you would
need a better sensor resolution than just getting a lock on the ship as a
whole. If this is true maybe the lock task DM should be +2.

Comments anyone?

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 15:08:56 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: More question

>5. Can you force an emergency exit from jumpspace?
No. Jumps always, always, always take 6-8 days; there's no way to exit any
sooner than that, not even in an emergency.

(Otherwise jump-6 ships could make jump-1 in a day...)
\

Brucfe

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 14:57:48 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re Questions

>Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:36:26 -0500
>From: "N. Eric Phillips" <stilleon@io.com>
>Subject: More question
>
>Simple question first:
>
>1. How do you pronounce "Ine Givar?"

Eye-n Give-Arrr is how I pronounce it, but others pronounce it inn-eh Zhi-var

>Now the Jump drive questions:
>
>2. Can you do an EVA while in jumpspace?

according to a few CT and MT sources, yes. Just don't reach out more than
1m from the hull...

>3. What do you see out the window while in a jump?

Don't recall any specific canon descriptions other than the "Undulating
gray wall"... which I use.

>4. Is the J-Drive actually working while in Jump Space or does it just work
>to get you to "break on through to the other side" )as Jim Morrison might
>say) then it goes cold and you wait for natural forces to dump you back into
>normal space?

Personally, and based upon MT sources, It digs the tunnel, and you fall in.
The grid keeps you from becoming one with jump space, but the grid holds
the quantum charge for long enough to allow you to come out into normal
space... most of the time.

>5. Can you force an emergency exit from jumpspace?
>
No. At least no rules for it I've ever seen in canon. Once you start
dumping the pulses to the L-Grids, you're committed for better or worse to
entering J-space... any interruptions or damage at that point are neary
guaranteed misjump.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:aramis@gci.net> Note: All other E-mail addresses for me expire by
the end of november 1998!
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
UTUP 0309 6-7779577-5-5-2
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 10:50:05
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Ship Design. Sane and otherwise.

>From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
>Subject: Re: Lanthanum grids [jump dimming] and stuff
>

>Except that Solomani ships never picked up on the "need" for jump
>dimming.  As a Solomani myself, I prefer to design ships with _lots_ of
>spare power.  Obviously, such ships don't _need_ to worry about jump
>dimming to send every possible Watt to the jump drive.
>

For a commercial ship under standard financing, every 10 megawatts of power
over the minimum you needs puts another Cr 4000 on your monthly mortgage bill.

10 megawatts of power costs a megacredit, and a megacredit turns into Cr
4000 a month, every month for 40 years ...

>I always figured that Solomani designs mirrored American attitudes, and
>had power plants large enough to run everything at once (just as late
>20th century American automobiles can generally cruise at 75+ mph, with
>air conditioning, truly impressive stereo, headlights, off-road lights,
>and whatever other options running _all at once_).
>
>OTOH, the Vilani, having lived in a culture of scarcity (starting with
>food), tend to design ships with the smallest power plant possible for
>the ship's mission.  Jump dimming is one way of cutting energy corners
>to save valuable resources.

And thus cut your operating costs.

>From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>
>Subject: Dear Cousin Ditzie
>
>To: My dearest little Ditzie
>
>>From Unkie Hengie
>
>cc: Marketing, Finance
>
>
>	Yes Ditzie, you can call the 4-4s the Rabid Impregnable Beach Ball
>from Hell.  Given the savings over conventional SBDs, why stop at 10 cm of
>Superdense?  Admittedly, you will run into problems as all the exterior
>sensors are vapourized, but you can always build backups a few cm into the
>armour so that they'll be re-exposed as the superdense ablates.
>
>	Go for a 30-cm thickness prototype.  Tell Finance I say so, tell
>Auntie Fiiaraa in Dispensary to give you double the usual dosage of the
>little yellow pills, and go to town.  I'm sure Marketing will be able to
>find us a few buyers somewhere; tell them to start calling Moonshine
>buyers...
>

Uncie, wunkie.

The problem-woblem we have is is is the thicker the aaaarmour is, the
biiiiger battery-wattery array weee need to run the Heppplar is (assuuuming
that weeee still wont use fusie-wusie plus coz coz coz of that naaaaaasty
Mr Zhunatsu). If weeee use fusie-wusei, then it's goanna cost ... an an an
weeee want the Rabid Impregnable Beach Ball from Hell to be cheeeeeeeap.

Weeeee could save space an mass an stuff by using an exxxx-raaaaayyyy
laaaaser, but but but that would make the boatie-wotie-wotie tech
thiiiirteeeen.

But but but weeeee need to put a small fusie-wusie plant in to boil the
hyyyyyyyyydrogen, coz coz coz coooold Hepppplar is iiiiicky, an an an it'd
help if that could be tech thiiiiiiiirteeeen as well.

Iiiiiii think we're goanna have to make the riiiiiiiib-bafh a bit
bigger-wigger.

Your loving cousin,

Ditzie 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 19:59:43 -0600
From: David Smart <warlock@imagin.net>
Subject: Re: Robots

George Royal wrote:
> 
> Greetings Everyone;
> 
> I have been lurking on TML for over a year and have gotten many
> extremely useful ideas for my Traveller Universe (which has not been
> played in since 1992, other than vehicle, world, and starship design
> that I have done.  I started playing in 1983 and my universe is mostly
> CT/MT, Classic Era, no rebellion.
> 
> I was reading through Vilani/Vargr and Aslan/Solomani recently( for
> umpteenth time)and was reading craft profile for the four robots used
> for examples.  I have Book 8 and Vampire Fleets(TNE) and have used these
> design sequences to create robots. I assume that the robots in V\V and
> A/S were a bastardization of Book 8 design and MT Craft Design.  I do
> not have 101 Robots (in fact, I've never seen a copy), and I'm not sure
> if it was CT or MT oriented.  If any one can tell me if these robots
> were designed by a design sequence I may not have, I would appreciate
> the info.  I also would like to hear any comments on any of these design
> sequences.

101 Robots designs were built using the sequences in Book 8 - Robots.
I've found the Book 8 sequences much easier to use than Vampire Fleets
but then I'm not a serious gearhead.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 21:07:46 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: re: Taking the Hit

Dave Golden wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
At 03:48 pm 11/4/98 -0700, you wrote:
>The Patriots _psychological_ advantage, OTOH, helped dramatically,
>primarily by keeping Israel from turning Bahgdad into a large puddle
of
>slag in the desert.

	And this would have been bad because ... ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Because of the political situation. Various arab countries were able to
stay out of the war, or actively ally with the "Great Satan" (USA)
because they were able to ignore their problem with the very existance
of Israel for a little while. Israel nuking cities in an arab nation, even Iraq,
would have unravelled things in the area pronto.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 18:16:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Roberto Camino <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Robots

- ---George Royal <groyal@isoa.net> wrote:
I do not have 101 Robots (in fact, I've never seen a copy), and I'm
not sure if it was CT or MT oriented.  If any one can tell me if these
robots were designed by a design sequence I may not have, I would
appreciate the info.


DGP wrote Book 8 and used it exclusively for the "101 Robots" designs.
 They added some new design features, broken down into New Skills and
New Sensors, Devices, and Weapons.  I could relate the list of new
items to you if you wish (contact me).  The book was published in
1986, so it is CT.  The back page has the stats for AB-101, "Aybee"
from the early Travellers' Digest.


[Note to the Historians: my copy of book 8 is first printing.  Gary
Thomas' name was left off, I guess, because it is hand written next to
Joe Fugate's on the credits list!  I picked this copy up the day it
hit my local store in Va. Beach, 1986.  What about your copy?]
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 21:16:26 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: re: More Questions

Imaginactra wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Wonder if you can do something similar to the "Bone Head" maneuver from
Babylon 5, try to initiate a jump while in jumpspace. Is there a second
layer to jumpspace or would this put you into an alternate universe? It
wouldn't work to bring you back into normal space, but what if...?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
IIRC, it's been tried in the official TU - they built a few prototype ships
with two jump drives, the idea was to jump, then activate the other
drive while in jump. They never got any of these ships back.

They also tried putting a jump-capable ship on another ship's external
sling, releasing the smaller ship while in jump space so it could jump
seperately. The smaller ship was never seen again.

It's hard to proceed further with this experiment. The test vehicles
gave no data, except the data "vehicle lost".

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 21:24:42 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: re: Ship Design

Ian Whitchurch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>

For a commercial ship under standard financing, every 10 megawatts of power
over the minimum you needs puts another Cr 4000 on your monthly mortgage bill.

10 megawatts of power costs a megacredit, and a megacredit turns into Cr
4000 a month, every month for 40 years ...

>I always figured that Solomani designs mirrored American attitudes, and
>had power plants large enough to run everything at once (just as late
>20th century American automobiles can generally cruise at 75+ mph, with
>air conditioning, truly impressive stereo, headlights, off-road lights,
>and whatever other options running _all at once_).
>
>OTOH, the Vilani, having lived in a culture of scarcity (starting with
>food), tend to design ships with the smallest power plant possible for
>the ship's mission.  Jump dimming is one way of cutting energy corners
>to save valuable resources.

And thus cut your operating costs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Part of this will depend on how safe your operating territory is. Saving
Cr4000 a month is pointless if your ship comes up short in a crisis
situation and is lost.

Vilani had been travelling and trading in a relatively stable empire
for millenia by the time they met Terra. Terra's first experience with
interstellar travel went straight to interstellar war. Could this have
something to do with the differing design philosophies?

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 18:27:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Roberto Camino <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: re: More Questions

- ---"Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu> wrote:
> IIRC, it's been tried in the official TU - they built a few
prototype ships with two jump drives, the idea was to jump, then
activate the other drive while in jump. They never got any of these
ships back.


Of course they never got the ships back.  Even if there were something
above jumpspace, when the ship dropped back into jumpspace it would be
destroyed, or too far away to get back, or eaten by the spiders. 
Choose one, none sound like a pleasure cruise.  We never would have
figured out regular jumpspace if someone hadn't left clues!
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 19:46:12 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@shell.rt66.com>
Subject: Re: HG and Long Range shootin'

 
> >method works great to hit specifc areas in other combat systems (if
> >you can hit a 1 ton missile, then why not a 1 ton sized area on a
> >200ton ship (or 0.1ton if its CT)?
> 
> That's basically where I got my +1DM to lock and shooting for hit a
> specific location in BL: As at any one time you should be able to see 10 of
> the 20 locations each location is 1/10 of the apparent size of the target.
> In BL the hull sizes go up by a factor of ten at each step, so one hit
> location is the same as a ship one size smaller. The only thing that
> bothers me is that I have a feeling that to get this sort of lock you would
> need a better sensor resolution than just getting a lock on the ship as a
> whole. If this is true maybe the lock task DM should be +2.
> 
> Comments anyone?

Yeah. the problem is that you have to assume (an BL explicitly
states) that your are firing multiple shots to get a single hit (or
a couple hits). Your suggestion works fine, since it points to a
fairly large area (10%), and of course there's still a chance it'll
hit some other area.

A combat system I was working on used a related idea. I had a "Close
Attack" phase where fighters (or any other ship dumb enough :-) that
plotted Intercept movement could attack specific areas of a target,
and got a bonus on to-hit and damage. the rationale was that they
get close enough that they can't miss with a laser (at a few
thousand km, you can't miss, period (barring equipment failure)).
They'd have to survive similar "can't miss" fire, just like a
contact-kill missile would have to.

Given the 100+ ROF of TNE lasers (800 if you bother to put a decent
military one on board), even if only 5% of the turn is in this final
range, you'd score many hits on the target (5% of the total ROF
would be a minimum since shots aren't really spread out evenly
during the turn). It was a good way to give teeth to PCs who wanted
to pull a Luke Skywalker :-) Gotta love them golden bearing balls
:-)

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 21:49:29 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Re: What are drop tanks? Additional Questions

Frank Pitt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I once captained a military ship which was pressed into
service as part of an attempted evacuation of a planet.

Our engineers performed a few customary miracles
and we got out to the nearest naval base with some
twenty times the normal ship's complement on board,
all cold berths full as well.

<snip>

I got an official reprimand for putting my ship in danger,
(there was no way we could have defended the ship
 had we been attacked ) but an unofficial "well done",
made some very influential freinds, and provided
a much needed boost in Navy public relations.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
Imagining your engineers working like mad to fit just one
more aboard without killing everyone.

Imagining the terrified crowd on the other side of the airlock
as your ship dogged hatches and left, last one out - were there
ten left behind for every one you gave your all to save?

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 21:17:01 -0600 (CST)
From: Joseph Heck <ccjoe@showme.missouri.edu>
Subject: Robots today

Kind of interesting:
  http://www.honda.co.jp/home/hpr/e_news/robot/index.html

Saw it in Nov98 Wired Magazine...

 joe                          (573) 884-6766
 heckj@missouri.edu           http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/
 PGP Fingerprint: E3 3F DF 08 BE 3E 44 A0  EE A9 80 7E 22 99 CD DF

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 16:29:09 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: More question

Date sent:      	Sat, 07 Nov 1998 15:25:59 -0500
From:           	Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>

>At 10:36 PM 11/6/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Wonder if you can do something similar to the "Bone Head" maneuver from
>Babylon 5, try to initiate a jump while in jumpspace. Is there a second
>layer to jumpspace or would this put you into an alternate universe? It
>wouldn't work to bring you back into normal space, but what if...?

IIRC there are vague mentions in canon to the concept of activating two jump 
drives similtaniously. According to the theories if you can perfectly align the 
jump fields you should either:

a - Increase the jump by mutliplying effect (eg two J-3 units produce 3 x 3 =J-9)
b - Increase the jump exponentially (eg two J-3 units produce 3^3 = J-27)
c - Disappear in a puff of flashy pryotechnic smoke never to be seen again

According to canon, thus far only effect c has been achieved when ever this is 
attempted.

I believe there are also comments in the Imperial Encylopedia to the effect that 
a second jump unit can not be activated while in jump due to the impossibility 
of correctly aligning the jump fields.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 22:25:43 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: Taking The Hit

At 11:51 AM 11/8/98 +1300, you wrote:
>At 09:12 7/11/98 -0700, Dave Golden wrote:
>>At 03:48 pm 11/4/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>>The Patriots _psychological_ advantage, OTOH, helped dramatically,
>>>primarily by keeping Israel from turning Bahgdad into a large puddle
>>of
>>>slag in the desert.
>>
>>	And this would have been bad because ... ?
>
>All those down wind would have become really pissed (aside from glowing in
>the dark).

Like he said, this would have been bad because...???

At the time, Iran would have liked to see us as dead as Iraq. I recall
several instances of being buzzed at midnight by Iranian P-3 patrol planes.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 19:59:07 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: More question

>Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:36:26 -0500
>From: "N. Eric Phillips" <stilleon@io.com>

>2. Can you do an EVA while in jumpspace?

I wouldn't want to unless I had not choice.  Otherwise, my approach would
be "no", but some would say that would be a small space between the hull
and the edge of the jump field you could squeeze into.
>
>3. What do you see out the window while in a jump?

The description I use is "Close you eyes.  It looks like that except without
all the blackness..."
>
>4. Is the J-Drive actually working while in Jump Space or does it just work
>to get you to "break on through to the other side" )as Jim Morrison might
>say) then it goes cold and you wait for natural forces to dump you back into
>normal space?

My ruling is that you use 99%+ of the energy to form the jump field then
there is a small trickle of charge to compensate for non-ideal losses.
>
>5. Can you force an emergency exit from jumpspace?

If you want to force a misjump (if you are lucky).

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 21:59:35 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: More questions

Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> wrote

> Theoretically you could EVA if the field
> extended far enough from the hull, but it seldoms does (I include the
> weaseling because there is one recorded instance of someone surviving 
> a jump outside the ship. I forget the details, but it's mentioned in 
> TAS newsbriefs from 1112.

Actually what the TAS article says (see below) is that one victim
survived actual exposure _to_ jump space.  If the jump bubble is really
a meter from the hull you should be able to climba round on the hull of
a ship in jump space just fine, although you may need to make
Determination checks to not freak out and Dex tasks not to put part of
your body into jump space accidently.


"Regina/Regina (0310-A788899-A) Date: 102-1112
     A dispatch from Terra/Sol (0207-A867A69-F) dated 121-1111 reads:
     "The first known victim known to survive direct exposure to
     hyperspace arrived at Terra today, suffering from what medical
     experts are calling "Hyperspace sickness'. Naval Commander Ansel
     Churner, an engineering officer on his way to retirement on
     Prometheus, is being held in strict quarantine until specialists
     can determine the specific effects the exposure will have. Doctors
     working on the case are quoted as saying that preliminary tests
     indicate that Commander Churner is in good condition, but is not
     mobile."

The above article is copyright FFE & its use is not intended to mess
with their copyright

Does the ships artifical gravity aply to the outside of the ships hull?
IE can you walk on the hull in space (or crawl on it in jumpspace) or
are you in zero G?

If you examine the 1112 TAS data you will notice that two different
messages from Terra/Sol, one dated 121-1111 and one dated 130-1111 were
both released on Regina.  The message dates 121-1111 was released on
102-1111 (a transit time of 334 days) and the message dated 130-1111
(nine days later) was released on Regina on 140-1111 (a transit time of
375 days).

This data tends to suggest that the X boat routes are not perfect and
that data does not flow at a uniform rate (or that some data is
artifically slowed).

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 01:08:02 -0600
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net>
Subject: Roth Thokken Vargr Version 1.0

- --=====================_9439274==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


OK here is version 1.0 of the Roth Thokken Vargr Subrace For GURPS Traveller.

I have them as blind with no eyes at all a not so successful attempt on an
Ancient's part to genetically enhance the ESP ability of a Vargr Subrace

             Att
ST  -1  -10   9
DX  +1  +10  11
IQ  +2  +20  12
HT  0    0   10
                           +20

Advantages
Acute Taste/Smell      +2   +2
Acute Hearing          +4   +4
Alertness              +1   +5
Enhanced Move               +7
Claws                      +15
Fur                         +4
Bite                        +5
Clairvoyance Power     10  +12
  Costs Fatigue         -.05%
  Uses Only IR Spectrum -.35%
Racial Skill(ESP)Bonus +3   +4
Racially Learned Skill
(Clairvoyance) at IQ        +4
                           +62

Disadvantages
Reduced Hit Points          -5
Chummy                      -5
Curious                     -5
Easy To Read               -10
Proud                       -1
Reduced Fatigue             -3
Reputation             -3  -15
Blindness                  -15
Social Stigma              -15
Cannot Kick                 -5
                           -69

20+62-69= +8 Race

So let me know about my attempt at a racial design using GURPS.



   

    

Sinbad Sam
"Black Curtain" Rod Holder...
AI Virus inferior races(Aslan, Humaniti, Kkree, Droyne) Interfacer
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
sinbad@ignore.hex.net

- --=====================_9439274==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html><div>OK here is version 1.0 of the Roth Thokken Vargr Subrace For
GURPS Traveller.</div>
<br>
<div>I have them as blind with no eyes at all a not so successful attempt
on an Ancient's part to genetically enhance the ESP ability of a Vargr
Subrace</div>
<br>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Att</div>
<div>ST&nbsp; -1&nbsp; -10&nbsp;&nbsp; 9</div>
<div>DX&nbsp; +1&nbsp; +10&nbsp; 11</div>
<div>IQ&nbsp; +2&nbsp; +20&nbsp; 12</div>
<div>HT&nbsp; 0&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 0&nbsp;&nbsp; 10</div>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+20</div>
<br>
<div>Advantages</div>
<div>Acute Taste/Smell&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +2&nbsp;&nbsp;
+2</div>
<div>Acute Hearing&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+4&nbsp;&nbsp; +4</div>
<div>Alertness&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+1&nbsp;&nbsp; +5</div>
<div>Enhanced
Move&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+7</div>
<div>Claws&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+15</div>
<div>Fur&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+4</div>
<div>Bite&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+5</div>
<div>Clairvoyance Power&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 10&nbsp; +12</div>
<div>&nbsp; Costs Fatigue&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
- -.05%</div>
<div>&nbsp; Uses Only IR Spectrum -.35%</div>
<div>Racial Skill(ESP)Bonus +3&nbsp;&nbsp; +4</div>
<div>Racially Learned Skill</div>
<div>(Clairvoyance) at IQ&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+4</div>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+62</div>
<br>
<div>Disadvantages</div>
<div>Reduced Hit
Points&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -5</div>
<div>Chummy&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
- -5</div>
<div>Curious&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
- -5</div>
<div>Easy To
Read&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
- -10</div>
<div>Proud&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
- -1</div>
<div>Reduced
Fatigue&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
- -3</div>
<div>Reputation&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
- -3&nbsp; -15</div>
<div>Blindness&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
- -15</div>
<div>Social
Stigma&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
- -15</div>
<div>Cannot
Kick&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
- -5</div>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
- -69</div>
<br>
<div>20+62-69= +8 Race</div>
<br>
<div>So let me know about my attempt at a racial design using
GURPS.</div>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp; </div>
<br>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </div>
<br>

<font size=2>Sinbad Sam<br>
&quot;Black Curtain&quot; Rod Holder...<br>
AI Virus inferior races(Aslan, Humaniti, Kkree, Droyne) Interfacer<br>
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions<br>
sinbad@ignore.hex.net<br>
</font></html>

- --=====================_9439274==_.ALT--

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1114
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Sunday, November 8 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 1115



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Nobles
Re: ship design
Re: HG and Long Range shootin'
Re: More question
Re: Taking The Hit
re: More question
Revisiting Hull Streamlining
Re: More question 
[none]
Re: More question 
Re: Taking the Hit
re: More question
re: HG and Long Range shootin'
Re: What are drop tanks? Additional Questions
Re: More question
Re: More question
Re: Taking The Hit
Re: Virus characters
Re: Taking The Hit
Re: [TTL] Revisting ship streamlining
Re: Trav Riot Control (was: Re: Medicine in Traveller 4...)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 01:40:49 -0600
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Nobles

Brandon Quina wrote:

> > There are basically two themes - either that people are noble
> because
> > they are important, or people are important because they are noble.
>
>         I'd imagine it was a mixture of the two.  People who are
> important are more likly to be nobles and those who are nobles are
> more likly to be important.
>
>
> > Things get sticky becuase the Imperium claims to rule not worlds,
> but
> > the space between the worlds. Giving Imperial nobles land grants on
> > member worlds, or taxation rights on the same, intrudes on this IMO.
>
>         From what i've read, its more like the worlds are allowed to
> do what they want--  within certain limits.  They have to pay taxxes
> to the Imperium, follow certain 'High Laws', and such forth.  Thus, it
>
> could be said that every world has its own noble--  but those nobles
> all rule their worlds diffrently.

There is a good discussion of this in G:T Behind the Claw.  It discusses
how
each member world has an Imperium Noble to represent it at the Imperium
Court.  That representative will have some tangible connection to that
system
(though not necessarily before the appointment).  That connection may be

an actual fiefdom of land, or a merely a token connection, such as a
portfolio
of shares in a major corporation of that system.

Some worlds will have natives who actually control the world government.

Other worlds may be represented by a non-native with only a token
connection
to the world, and in fact may rarely if ever even visit the world.  The
emphasis
is on representation to the Imperium Court.  Actual power on the member
world and its local affairs may be extremely minimal, especially in
areas out
of the purview of the Imperium.

An example is the Archduke Norris, who is Duke of Regina, but operates out
of Mora and, although he has the authority to directly administer Regina,
does not.  And though he is most often on Mora, he is a guest of the Duchess
of Mora, she represents/administers Mora, _not_ the Archduke.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 19:50:07
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: ship design

>From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
>Subject: re: Ship Design
>
>Part of this will depend on how safe your operating territory is. Saving
>Cr4000 a month is pointless if your ship comes up short in a crisis
>situation and is lost.
>
>Vilani had been travelling and trading in a relatively stable empire
>for millenia by the time they met Terra. Terra's first experience with
>interstellar travel went straight to interstellar war. Could this have
>something to do with the differing design philosophies?

True, but I think excess fusion power is a bad trade.

Cr 4000 a month is roughly equivalent to 2 dtons of cargo revenue. One dton
of cargo space dedicated to batteries turns into about 21 megawatts of
power for one hour at TL12, or a dedicated sandcaster turret.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 02:06:38 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: HG and Long Range shootin'

>That's basically where I got my +1DM to lock and shooting for hit a
>specific location in BL

>The only thing that
>bothers me is that I have a feeling that to get this sort of lock you would
>need a better sensor resolution than just getting a lock on the ship as a
>whole. If this is true maybe the lock task DM should be +2.

Maybe only +1; BL/FFS sensors have very high resolution (they're big 
for their collecting area) and probably have a few pixels
across any ship they have a detection on.

(And the HEPlaR plume tells you what direction the target is pointing in,
and you can measure it's centroid position to a tenth of a hull size...)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 05:39:15 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: More question

>>5. Can you force an emergency exit from jumpspace?
>No. Jumps always, always, always take 6-8 days; there's no way to exit any
>sooner than that, not even in an emergency.
>
>(Otherwise jump-6 ships could make jump-1 in a day...)


That's assuming that Jump Space goes in a "straight line". By some
arguments, it might be said you can make jump-38 in a day. :-)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 07:32:48 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Taking The Hit

"David J. Golden" wrote:
> 
> At 03:48 pm 11/4/98 -0700, you wrote:
> >The Patriots _psychological_ advantage, OTOH, helped dramatically,
> >primarily by keeping Israel from turning Bahgdad into a large puddle
> of
> >slag in the desert.
> 
>         And this would have been bad because ... ?

Because that would have precipitated a regional war against Israel. All
the Arab allies in the Coalition would have immediately dropped out and
attacked Israel, most likely.

Because nuking a city full of civilians is a damn serious step to take,
and the Israelis would have had to use more of them, a _lot_ closer to
home to stave off destruction. Remember, once is happenstance, twice is
coincidence, thrice is a trend, and nuclear war is a rewally bad trend
to get caught up in.

Because the biggest troop buildup for the US since Vietnam was right
there in the middle of it all, and for damn sure any other carefully
hidden nukes in the region would have been used (the Soviets have a
rather large number of warheads they cannot account for. To be sure, the
majority of them are simply lost in their bureaucracy and warehouses,
but it only takes a few...), and all of our troops, and Britains troops,
and France's troops and Germany's troops would have been right there in
the middle of it.

Because that would have brought out all the non-nuke weapons of mass
destruction in the area, and all of our troops, and Britains troops, and
France's troops and Germany's troops would have been right there in the
middle of it. Were _that_ to happen, do you think for a heartbeat that
the political leaders of those countries would have been able to hold
off the political pressure to go to war over it?

At that point, Russia wakes up and sees all of this sh*t happening right
on their borders, and being good paranoid russian generals, they start
prepariong for the worst...

Hmmm....more and more it starts to sound like Twilight2K, doesn't it. A
fun game to play, but a wretched one to live...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 16:34:20 +0200 (EET)
From: Eppu Tuominen <eptitu@utu.fi>
Subject: re: More question

On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, Bruce Alan Macintosh wrote:

 
> No. Jumps always, always, always take 6-8 days; there's no way to exit any
> sooner than that, not even in an emergency.
> 
> (Otherwise jump-6 ships could make jump-1 in a day...)

Yes, I know this is an unalterable law in all published traveller
backgrounds, but has anybody ever beenable to figure out a sensible  
(pseudoscientific) reason why this would be so? (Because it´s canon  
will_not do here!) 

- -------------
Eppu Tuominen
eptitu@utu.fi
- -------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 08:59:11 -0600
From: Andrew Akins <igor@truserve.com>
Subject: Revisiting Hull Streamlining

OK, this is old hat, and I know it. But the list is sort of quiet now, and
this one still bugs me, so I thought I'd throw it out again and see what
you guys have to say.

My question: Just what exactly is the "waste space" of streamlined ships -
and why can't it be used for storage of fuel or other items?

Here's my problem. Take a box config:

+------------+
+------------+

Now, lets make it streamlined:

/------------+
\------------+

Obviously, the second has less space...because the front is angled.
However, why not do:

/--------------+
\--------------+

Giving you the streamlining, but keeping the displacement the same.

Jump drive is based on displacement. If the displacement isn't there, why
do I need to provide a drive for it?

Another problem I have is how the waste space is calculated. For ships of
startship size, the maximum waste space has been reached - 150m3 of
hypersonic streamlining or 300m3 of hypersonic airframe. So your 100ton
streamlined ship needs over 10tons of streamlining space - and the
10,000ton strike cruiser also needs over 10tons of streamlining space.
Personally, I don't see what affect this 10tons would have on the 10,000ton
ship. And if it has no affect, why do we need it at all.

Personally, I am in favor of streamlining costing more - providing more
area (thus heavier, bigger drives), and some space being available only for
fuel. I'm seriously thinking about doing this IMTU. However, I know there
are those of you that stand by the waste space system...sould someone
explain this to me once again. 'cause it really makes no sense to me.

Thanks...


+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                        |
| Home: igor@truserve.com - www.truserve.com/~igor/ - AIM: Iowa Akins |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/ - AIM: CMS AndyA    |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU: tc++(**) ru+ ge 3i+ jt- au+ ls+ kk+ hi+ as+ va+ dr+ so+ zh+   |
|       vi+ da+                                                       |
| Geek: GCS d- s+:+ a- C++ W++ w+++(-)$ PS+ PE t- 5++ X+ R+++ tv+     |
|       b+++ DI+ D-- G e+ h---- r+++ y++++                            |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 10:11:51 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: More question 

> On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, Bruce Alan Macintosh wrote:
> 
>  
> > No. Jumps always, always, always take 6-8 days; there's no way to exit any
> > sooner than that, not even in an emergency.
> > 
> > (Otherwise jump-6 ships could make jump-1 in a day...)
> 
> Yes, I know this is an unalterable law in all published traveller
> backgrounds, but has anybody ever beenable to figure out a sensible  
> (pseudoscientific) reason why this would be so? (Because it´s canon  
> will_not do here!) 

Here's my take.

Somebody postulated a subterranean tunnel system here on Earth to tie together 
different cities.  Thing is, any two points on the planet would only be about 
20 minutes by tube due to gravity accelleration.  (It's been awhile since I 
saw the article in a magazine, and of course, they forgot to factor in 
continental drift, but that's neither here nor there...)

I postulate Jump space to be somewhat simular.  Every possible destination is 
on the surface of a hypothetical hypersphere.  Openning a 'Jump tunnel" lets 
you tunnel through the hypersphere.  For some unknown reason, the 'size' of 
the hypersphere is such that the transit time of the 'tunnel' is about 168 
hours, give or take 10%.  Thus, attempting to 'emergency exit' jumpspace would 
put you somewhere inside the 'tunnel' and would either not work at all *or* 
kill you in the attempt, ref's choice.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 12:16:47 -0500 (EST)
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu>
Subject: [none]

Just stopping in briefly to say hello again -- don't think I can keep up
with the list -- even though, if I gather correctly, Famille Spofulam has
reemerged from the tatters of the Milieu Zero/IG fiasco? Tres bon.

Unfortunately, my struggles to detect and eliminate all traces of vile,
foul Sayat perversions & ideologies from the _Teach Yourself Vilani_
drafts are occupying far too much of my time.  And I'm under the
impression I'm supposed to be doing something here at school, too,
although that's rather unclear at this point.

And by the way, I thought some of you might be interested to hear about
this old book I found down in the basement of the library last night; it
was about the astronomical theories of the Templa

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 19:59:35 +0200 (EET)
From: Eppu Tuominen <eptitu@utu.fi>
Subject: Re: More question 

On Sun, 8 Nov 1998, Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:

 
> Somebody postulated a subterranean tunnel system here on Earth to tie together 
> different cities.  Thing is, any two points on the planet would only be about 
> 20 minutes by tube due to gravity accelleration.  (It's been awhile since I 
> saw the article in a magazine, and of course, they forgot to factor in 
> continental drift, but that's neither here nor there...)
> 
> I postulate Jump space to be somewhat simular.  Every possible destination is 
> on the surface of a hypothetical hypersphere.  Openning a 'Jump tunnel" lets 
> you tunnel through the hypersphere.  For some unknown reason, the 'size' of 
> the hypersphere is such that the transit time of the 'tunnel' is about 168 
> hours, give or take 10%.  Thus, attempting to 'emergency exit' jumpspace would 
> put you somewhere inside the 'tunnel' and would either not work at all *or* 
> kill you in the attempt, ref's choice.

 That actually starts making some sense, if you want a drive, that uses
most of its energy to puch through to 5-dimensional space, and relies on
spatial geometry to pull it through. In your hypersphere analog one would
have to remember, that the distances traversed by jump drive would be the
equivalent of digging a tunnel through earth to connect two points only a
few meters apart. So, to get any help fron what passes for gravity in the
5-dimensional medium, one would have to "slingshot" towards the "center"
of the hypersphere. (Talking about gravity here can be justified,since
even in normal 3-d space gravity is not a real force, but only a trick of
spatial geometry.) Such "slingshots" would then be almost equal in
duration, because of the gravitational principles (or analog thereof),
which you described. The length of the jump might depend, for example, on
how "steeply" the j-drive can make the ship "dive" into the hypersphere.
 
- -------------
Eppu Tuominen
eptitu@utu.fi
- -------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 13:00:49 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Taking the Hit

>>The Patriots _psychological_ advantage, OTOH, helped dramatically,
>>primarily by keeping Israel from turning Bahgdad into a large puddle
>of
>>slag in the desert.
>
>	And this would have been bad because ... ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Because of the political situation. 

And, of course, the ethics of killing innocent civilians who happen to
live in a country you're at war with, even if they oppose the current
government.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 09:59:32 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: re: More question

At 04:34 PM 11/8/98 +0200, you wrote:
>On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, Bruce Alan Macintosh wrote:
>
> 
>> No. Jumps always, always, always take 6-8 days; there's no way to exit any
>> sooner than that, not even in an emergency.
>> 
>> (Otherwise jump-6 ships could make jump-1 in a day...)
>
>Yes, I know this is an unalterable law in all published traveller
>backgrounds, but has anybody ever beenable to figure out a sensible  
>(pseudoscientific) reason why this would be so? (Because it´s canon  
>will_not do here!) 

Because you are basically leaping off a cliff.  Or perhaps a catapult is a
better analogy.

When you enter jump, you spent a great deal of energy to begin the trip,
"aiming" for a designated spot.  You are in essence throwing yourself at
the target.  Once in jump, it would take ungodly amounts of energy to stop
the "arc" towards the target point.
- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 10:09:10 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: HG and Long Range shootin'

Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@shell.rt66.com> wrote:

>One, lasers don't have target agility as a DM, while sub-c weapons
>do (except missiles, presumably because they can also maneuver).
>Evasion (agility in HG) in reality works better at longer ranges
>(all the math shows this).

Merrick, _TCS_ says in p12 (HG rules clarifications and errata), _Agility
is a maesure of the amount of energy available to the ships' maneuver
drives, even when other operations are in progress. As such, agility is an
extremely important aspect of any combat ship. Agility serves as a
defensive DM on the throw to hit for all weapons types._

It effects combat in three ways -

1) A target's agility is taken from the roll to hit as a negative DM. ie DM
- -1 for agility 1.
2) Pursuit - ships breaking off break off at the speed (G rating) of their
least agile ship.
3)  Emergency Agility - it is possible for a ship not to use energy
consuming weapons in a combat round and divert energy to the M-Drives. In
this case, an emergency agility rating equal to the MDrive or power plant
number (which ever is lower) may be used.

Dom


- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 18:00:16 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: What are drop tanks? Additional Questions

Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU> wrote:

>Imagining your engineers working like mad to fit just one
>more aboard without killing everyone.
>
>Imagining the terrified crowd on the other side of the airlock
>as your ship dogged hatches and left, last one out - were there
>ten left behind for every one you gave your all to save?

cf CJ Cherryh's _Downbelow Station_ for an example of what happens when you
get to evacuate a big station with freighters etc when an enemy takes it
over. Overcrowded merchants with the crews locking themselves in the bridge
and engineering spaces, holds full of refugees, and it all goes bad....

It was just a side plot in _Downbelow_ but it has great potential as a
story hook. Biggest difference from Traveller is that the crews and
passengers in Cherryh's Union/Alliance universe take 'jump drugs' to get
through jump. And in the example I mentioned, I suspect that the refugees
didn't have jump drugs...

I recommend Cherryh wholeheartedly. _Cyteen_ for bioengineering, _Downbelow
Station_ as a classic SCi-Fi story, _Merchanter's Luck_, _Tripoint_ and
_Finity's End_ as examples of Merchant life, and _Hellburner_ and
_Rimrunners_ for military/ex military situations. _Heavy time_ covers
belters really well.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 10:28:28 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: More question

 "Jonas Karlsson" <Jonas.Karlsson@baldakinen.umea.se> wrote:

>So, basically, Jumpspace is Chiba City?
>"The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead
>channel."
>
>;-)

Except (as someone mentioned recently) modern TVs display a deep blue
screen when they're on a dead channel...

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 10:23:59 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: More question

Brandon Quina <lore@tmgbbs.com> wrote:

>Or imagine a stowaway severly damaging the ship and pointing you
>towards the sun, forcing you to jump without properly using the
>computers to find out where you'll end up after the jump is done.
>*Then*, imagine finding yourself far far far away from home with
>your wife, your three kids, a robot, and the stowaway.  Ohhh, and
>a hotshot pilot too, silly of me to forget.

..it could be even worse... the pilot could fancy your elder daughter. It
would be really hard to be lost in space in that kind of situation.

Only thing that could get worse is if you met yourself in some kind of jump
induced temporal disturbance.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 10:19:21 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Taking The Hit

 "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net> wrote:

>At 03:48 pm 11/4/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>The Patriots _psychological_ advantage, OTOH, helped dramatically,
>>primarily by keeping Israel from turning Bahgdad into a large puddle
>of slag in the desert.
>	And this would have been bad because ... ?

...of the Flamebait?

Lets pretend to have a veneer of civilisation, and assume that there are
some (say a lot) people who have oppose the Hussein totalitarian regime in
Iraq, and that they're to scared to oppose it openly, shall we? There
again, after several years of starving and lacking basic medical facilities
they may attach a little of the blame to the US/UK etc who imposed the
sanctions.

Israel nukes Baghdad, and then the rest of the middle east goes up in
flames. And all that fallout is quite close to Europe and on the edge of
the Med. At the same time the US looses oil from the Gulf when the various
nations around there are swept up in it.... follow the logic?

Ob-Trav - what would happen if a state in the Imperium launched an attack
against another and destroyed it against the Imperial Rules of War?
Something like the attack with Antimatter at the start of _Reality
Dysfunction_ by Hamilton? Would the Imperium red zone the perpetrator or
would it get red zoned then nuked and mesoned back to the stone age?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 10:37:10 -0800
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@home.com>
Subject: Re: Virus characters

>	I dont think that Virus would work very well as a weapon,
>though.  It's not just a tool, a thing to be used.  It's a lifeform;
>it's just as unpredictable as any other enslaved lifeform.

Agreed. 10987, the intelligent Cymbeline chip from Signal GK, was a
fully-realized NPC with its own personality, skills, and motivations. It
could communicate with computers at ultra-high speed, but could not "take
over" a ship or act as an infallible transponder any more than a human with
a CB radio could.

Cymbeline chips could have been the basis for an interesting new direction
for Traveller characters and adventures, and provided challenges and
dramatic potential for the Imperium's existing laws on robots and
artificial intelligence. The chips are not robots, or even strictly
"artificial". They are, as you suggest, a new form of life.

I believe TNE was trying to move in this direction with the Sandman
Virus from Vampire Fleets, though it was burdened by existing Virus rules.
- --
Richard Hough
rdhough@home.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 11:49:57 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Taking The Hit

At 11:51 am 11/8/98 +1300, you wrote:
>At 09:12 7/11/98 -0700, Dave Golden wrote:
>>At 03:48 pm 11/4/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>>The Patriots _psychological_ advantage, OTOH, helped dramatically,
>>>primarily by keeping Israel from turning Bahgdad into a large
puddle
>>of
>>>slag in the desert.
>>
>>	And this would have been bad because ... ?
>
>All those down wind would have become really pissed (aside from
glowing in
>the dark).

	Just makes it easier to find, and you can drill through the slag to
get the oil ...

(PS to everybody who gave a serious answer to a tongue in cheek
question: I was joking! I'm quite aware of all the sociopolitical
implications of an Israeli strike on an Arab country, quite aside
from the morality of nuking civilians ... although many consider that
an appropriate response to first use of any weapon of mass
destruction, such as Saddam's chem/biowarfare arsenal)
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 11:50:54 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: [TTL] Revisting ship streamlining

At 09:00 am 11/8/98 -0600, you wrote:
>OK, this is old hat, and I know it. But the list is sort of quiet
now, and
>this one still bugs me, so I thought I'd throw it out again and see
what
>you guys have to say.
>
>
>My question: Just what exactly is the "waste space" of streamlined
ships -
>and why can't it be used for storage of fuel or other items?

	The waste space isn't volume taken away from the hull, as you show
in your diagrams; rather, it's volume that's just not useable because
of the additional structural requirements of streamlining, control
surfaces, blind corners created, etc.

>
>Here's my problem. Take a box config:
>
>
>+------------+
>+------------+
>
>
>Now, lets make it streamlined:
>
>
>/------------+
>\------------+
>
>
>Obviously, the second has less space...because the front is angled.

	Not quite--streamlining does NOT reduce the overall volume of the
hull.

>However, why not do:
>
>
>/--------------+
>\--------------+

	This is basically what happens--the overall displacement of the hull
remains the same, you just can't efficiently use all of the volume. 

	Think of it as increased structural volume, and maybe it'll make
more sense.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 11:43:03 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Trav Riot Control (was: Re: Medicine in Traveller 4...)

At 09:36 am 11/7/98 -0800, you wrote:
>At 10:17 AM 11/7/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>At 08:14 am 11/7/98 -0800, I wrote:
>
>>>Umm.. I have a rest BP of 90/60 most days.  (I'm just waiting for
>>the
>>
>>	Ain't it a pain? Had a hard time at a blood drive once--BP of 84/62,
>>pulse of about 45. The nurse thought I was dead ...
>
>Try going to your doctor and having a platelet count of ZERO.  None.
 Nada.

	Ouch! That can't be good ... I had a low count recently when I went
to the blood bank (I donate platelets via pheresis instead of just
whole blood), but it wasn't zero ...

> Confirmed by observation of the sample.  Dr. Waltuch actually looked at me
>and asked what planet I was from.
>
>I told him Vland.

	ROFL!
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1115
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Sunday, November 8 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 1116



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: More question 
Re: ship design
Re: Grav Tank Configs
Re: Grav tank configs (Back on Topic)
Fusion+
Re: 
Jump Drives
One-week jump theory (was: more question)
Re: Ship design, sane or otherwise
re: Long range fire
Re: What are drop tanks? Additional questions
Re: More question 
Re: More question
Re: Noble rank expansion
Re: Ship Design. Sane and otherwise.
Lone Wolf (was: Re: System Defense spending on Gov 7 worlds)
Re: Noble rank expansion 
REpost: Nobility Variant
Steerage Class (Was "What are drop tanks? Additional Questions")

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 13:37:45 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: More question 

- -----Original Message-----
From: Eppu Tuominen <eptitu@utu.fi>
To: traveller@tansoft.com <traveller@tansoft.com>
Date: Sunday, November 08, 1998 1:42 PM
Subject: Re: More question


>On Sun, 8 Nov 1998, Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:
>
>
>> Somebody postulated a subterranean tunnel system here on Earth to tie together
>> different cities.  Thing is, any two points on the planet would only be about
>> 20 minutes by tube due to gravity accelleration.  (It's been awhile since I
>> saw the article in a magazine, and of course, they forgot to factor in
>> continental drift, but that's neither here nor there...)
>>
>> I postulate Jump space to be somewhat simular.  Every possible destination is
>> on the surface of a hypothetical hypersphere.  Openning a 'Jump tunnel" lets
>> you tunnel through the hypersphere.  For some unknown reason, the 'size' of
>> the hypersphere is such that the transit time of the 'tunnel' is about 168
>> hours, give or take 10%.  Thus, attempting to 'emergency exit' jumpspace would
>> put you somewhere inside the 'tunnel' and would either not work at all *or*
>> kill you in the attempt, ref's choice.
>
> That actually starts making some sense, if you want a drive, that uses
>most of its energy to puch through to 5-dimensional space, and relies on
>spatial geometry to pull it through. In your hypersphere analog one would
>have to remember, that the distances traversed by jump drive would be the
>equivalent of digging a tunnel through earth to connect two points only a
>few meters apart. So, to get any help fron what passes for gravity in the
>5-dimensional medium, one would have to "slingshot" towards the "center"
>of the hypersphere. (Talking about gravity here can be justified,since
>even in normal 3-d space gravity is not a real force, but only a trick of
>spatial geometry.) Such "slingshots" would then be almost equal in
>duration, because of the gravitational principles (or analog thereof),
>which you described. The length of the jump might depend, for example, on
>how "steeply" the j-drive can make the ship "dive" into the hypersphere.
>
Not being a well versed in theoretical physics I can see one thing from
this. This might allow an expert engineer to "tune" the J-drive to greater
or lesser efficiency. In game terms I'd say that a good skill roll while
doing routine maintenance on the J-drive might tend to allow the jump to
tend toward the minus side of the +/- 20%, while a failed roll might tend
toward the + side.

I like this since it gives the skills and duties of the ship's engineer a
greater scope. Sort of the Scotty syndrome. A VERY good engineer can shave
time off of jump (while remainng within the scope of the rules), while a
poor engineer (of lower skill level) can have adverse effects on the
duration of jump.

It also allows scope to astrogation. THe astrogator is calculating the locus
of the "tunnel" exit. Better astrogation can result in a closer exit to the
100 d point, and to the targeted main world. Poor astrogation can result in
an exit point further from the 100 d point.

Mike Peters, Letterworks@CITnet.com
webpage:"Jump Point" http://users.citnet.com/Letterworks/
"For my part, I travel not to go anywhere, but to go. I travel for travel's
sake. The great affair is to move."
Robert Louis Stevenson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 13:14:45 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: ship design

>From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
>Subject: Re: ship design
...
>Cr 4000 a month is roughly equivalent to 2 dtons of cargo revenue. One dton
>of cargo space dedicated to batteries turns into about 21 megawatts of
>power for one hour at TL12, or a dedicated sandcaster turret.

  Under Striker 14m^3 of TL C batteries is MCr 11.9, and contains ~15.6
MW-hours of energy; the battery augmented spacecraft is largely a post-
CT rules creation, as MCr 12 would purchase 4 Dt of fuser, producing 1.3
EP (or 325+ MW) continuously.

  In surface combat there would be applications due to shorter engagements
and smaller size scales.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 13:14:33 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Grav Tank Configs

>From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
...
>It's worse than that. Gravitic sensors pick up contragrav.
>
>I am seriously thinking of building a hi-tech rotary-winged aircraft,
>because it may not be survivable to use contragrav in a high-threat
>environment ...

  Well, if they're going to play hide and seek, then landing between
movement orders will both reduce (eliminate?) their CG signature and
give them a chance to weed out enemies who are too impatient.

  FWIW, while it is highly desirable to assume (as does Striker) that
a 3-D target fix cannot be achieved through terrain using either CG
detectors, densitometers, neutrino sensors, or PEMS fixing on the EM
put out by the target AFV's power plant, it can be awfully useful to 
any would-be Trav wargamers to assume that rough location is given for
active units - at least so they can be placed on the playing surface :>

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 13:29:38 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Grav tank configs (Back on Topic)

...
>Never underestimate the power of guided missiles.  I can easily imagine a
>brilliant missile that will evaluate it's chances of hitting before
>launching; refuses to engage anything it doesn't have a good chance of
>successfully engaging.

  But would it be clever enough to launch itself anyway when the vehicle
crew inadvertently exposes their flank to a previously undetected MBT? :>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 15:48:46 EST
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Fusion+

	Why do I have this feeling this will ignite a serious firestorm...:-)

	It seems that there is an almost universal dislike in the TML of Fusion+.  I
am curious just why everyone hates it so much?  As I see it, it is the type of
reactor that MT used...the higher power output aside (which can be modified to
the regular level if necessary) it means fueling the power plant for a month
instead of a year (thus returning endurance as a factor to starships again).
It also allows me to swallow the Thrusters a little easier...they are not
"exactly" reactionless, as a lot of fuel is used as reaction mass.  I realize
one arguement was that fuel consumption in Trav Fusion plants were
rediculously high...this would solve/explain it, IMHO.

	Dusty

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 13:29:55 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: 

At 12:16 PM 11/8/98 -0500, you wrote:

>And by the way, I thought some of you might be interested to hear about
>this old book I found down in the basement of the library last night; it
>was about the astronomical theories of the Templa

That was too close....
- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 98 15:34:22 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Jump Drives

On 11/08/98 at 04:34 PM,  Eppu Tuominen <eptitu@utu.fi> said:

>Yes, I know this is an unalterable law in all published traveller
>backgrounds, but has anybody ever beenable to figure out a sensible  
>(pseudoscientific) reason why this would be so? (Because it´s canon  
>will_not do here!) 

Whether the reasoning is sensible, or not, is in the eye of the
beholder, but several theories have been proposed.  In my Traveller
Universe it is...

The jump drive creates an artificial wormhole in space that connects
two widely separated locations in real space, point A and B. The
wormhole is a volumematic interface...also called a "hyperspace
pucker" or "jump bubble"...that extends into a hyperspace.  A ship
translates from point A to point B in an *indeterminate* time and
the interface at point A disappears at the instant of transfer.  The
hyperspace pucker naturally smooths out, but not immediately.

The measure of time separating entrance into and exit from the
bubble is *usually* consistent for observers inside and outside the
bubble, however during "temporal misjumps" this may not be true.
The time absent from real space is a function of the amount of time
it takes for the hyperspace pucker to naturally collapse and expel
its contents at point B, normally this takes about a
week...regardless of the distance between A and B. The actual time
is dependent on the quality of injection matter ("jump fuel") used
to open the wormhole, the condition of the jump drive, and the skill
of the engineer in tuning the drive to the content of the injection
mass.  Misjumpping ships have been known to arrive after greatly
extended periods of time as measured on either or both observer
clocks, and although no direct evidence exists some theories suggest
ships may travel back in time as measured by an outside observer
given rare and unpredictable conditions.

The interface, and hyperspace, completely encloses the area
around the drive (the ship), and matter *in* hyperspace decomposes
into a sea of quarks that will be expelled into real space as the
pucker smooths.  Therefore a protective shield must be erected
between hyperspace and the ship. The lanthanum grid and a significant
portion of the jump fuel is used for this.

The grid, located between the inner and outer hull to protect it
from incidental damage, is charged prior to jump and creates an
expanding field.  As the field extends through the hull it produces
colored patterns due to interaction with the atoms of the hull.  The
patterns and colors vary based on both the grid geometry and the
material composing the hull.

Within the "jump field", produced by the grid, a tenuous atmosphere,
generally hydrogen, forms a "bubble" of real matter.  The bubble
extends two to three meters from the grid.  Usually there is a meter
or two of bubble outside the ship's hull for safety and to allow
emergency repairs on the ship's surface.  The hydrogen, and
everything else that crosses the bubble wall, slowly decomposes
producing the mind-bending flashes of color and patterns within the
"gray" nothingness we associate with jump space.  The atmosphere
also acts to transfer heat from the ship across the interface into
hyperspace, and so the atmospheric pressure is monitored and
adjusted throughout jump to cool the ship.

It is important to maintain the jump grid throughout a ship's time
in jumpspace.  If the protective grid collapses the bubble and
everything within begins to decompose.  If the atmospheric pressure
falls below a critical level the bubble between hyperspace and the
real space begins to deflate and infringe on the material of the
hull decomposing it.  Either situation would be deadly for a ship's
crew.

While any material could be used to maintain the bubble, most have
deleterious effects on the ship as it decomposes.  Absolutely pure
H2 is far and away the best choice, as even the hydrogen isotopes
can produce dangerous radiation as it decomposes slowly irradiating
the ship's hull.

After some period of time, the hyperspace pucker smooths and its
contents are expelled back into real space.  Assuming that the
quantity and quality of injection mass used to create the wormhole
was adequate, the condition and tuning of the drive were within
specs, the jump sensors worked correctly, the Astrogator locked onto
a valid target within range of his sensors, the grid did its job and
the quantity and quality of injection mass used to maintain the
bubble was sufficient the ship will emerge in 154 to 174 hours in the
vicinity of point B.

The range of a jump drive, IMTU, depends on the quality of the jump
sensors and the skill of the Astrogator.  He must be able to "lock"
both ends of the wormhole or he gets unpredictable results, ie
spacial misjumps.  Ships have to travel far enough from any mass so
these sensors can look through the "jump lens" formed as the
wormhole forms and "see" the target locations without them being
"washed out" by local masses.  Target locations are GG or larger
masses because only masses that large can be discerned with the
sensors.  An especially skillful Astrogator can "push" a jump beyond
its rating, ie a J1 can make a J2, by completing a Staggering task.
IMTU, Jdrives are often built to slightly less expensive "half
spec", ie J1.5, so J2's can be attempted as a Formidable task and
J1's can be attempted as a Moderate task.

IAC, enough injection mass to make a jump needs to be used.  This
quantity is based on both the volume of the ship and the distance it
intends to jump.  Approximately 90% is used to form the jump lens
and a hyperspace pucker (or wormhole) large enough to hold the
ship's volume.  The rest is used throughout the jump to keep the
bubble inflated.

This is, of course, ALL MTU!

Ok, all you guys that think MTU is *so* different from "c"...see, it
isn't so different!  ;->

Eris

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 13:51:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: One-week jump theory (was: more question)

> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 16:34:20 +0200 (EET)
> From: Eppu Tuominen <eptitu@utu.fi>
> 
> On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, Bruce Alan Macintosh wrote:
>  
> > No. Jumps always, always, always take 6-8 days; there's no way to exit any
> > sooner than that, not even in an emergency.
> > 
> > (Otherwise jump-6 ships could make jump-1 in a day...)
> 
> Yes, I know this is an unalterable law in all published traveller
> backgrounds, but has anybody ever beenable to figure out a sensible  
> (pseudoscientific) reason why this would be so? (Because it´s canon  
> will_not do here!) 

My model is that entering jump is in some ways analogous to firing a shell
along a fixed trajectory.  Once you apply the initial impetus (enter jump,
expending a bunch of energy at once), you're on a fixed 'trajectory' which
will intersect real space again in a week.  Nothing you can do while in
j-space will change your trajectory.

It happens (canonically) that the only known way to make a jump work is to
enter on the one-week trajectory.  In a TU I used to run, I added that
researchers had discovered other trajectories that took around 50 days,
around a year, around 7 years, and so forth.  Other than the time spent in
j-space, these were identical to normal jumps.  Obviously, they're not
very useful!  Hitting one of them was a rare form of misjump, however.
Also, some researchers thought the 'higher' trajectories might make
controlled jumps greater than 6 possible, though nobody had managed it at
the time my game was set.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      "Ripple in still water, when there is no pebble tossed,
       nor wind to blow..."

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 22:57:45 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Ship design, sane or otherwise

Ian or Katts writes:

>10 megawatts of power costs a megacredit, and a megacredit turns into Cr
>4000 a month, every month for 40 years ...

How much of a megawatt do you save by dimming your lights?
 

      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 15:00:12 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: re: Long range fire

...
>>(One thing no version has gotten right - you should go from near-certain-hit
>>to very-low-hit-chance quite rapidly.)
>
>I suspect that this is in part because this doesn't make for a particularly
>fun game (IMO anyway).

  Depending on the rules system (SFB, Star Cruiser, FT, etc.) you might
very well see a spate of battlecruiser over-runs, where a large, well-
armed ship quickly steam-rollers a smaller; while it might be realistic
probably only a phased (and thus, typically slow) movement system would
keep the phenomenon from being artificially effective and popular.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 23:06:03 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: What are drop tanks? Additional questions

DustyLV769@aol.com writes:

>thomharr@mediaone.net writes:
> 
><< I wondered many times about this myself.  The only point that I could come
> up with (and it's flawed) is they can't pump the fuel out of the collapsable
> tanks fast enough to get to the jump drives. >>
> 
>Perhaps it's because you need to have the fuel in the main tank for it to be
>properly pumped to the reactor.  After all, in the Real World (tm), you can't
>draw fuel from a gas can in the trunk of your car to run it's engine, right?

But you can use fuel from drop tanks and from demountable tanks directly.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 16:46:02 -0500
From: "N. Eric Phillips" <stilleon@io.com>
Subject: Re: More question 

>Not being a well versed in theoretical physics I can see one thing from
>this. This might allow an expert engineer to "tune" the J-drive to greater
>or lesser efficiency. In game terms I'd say that a good skill roll while
>doing routine maintenance on the J-drive might tend to allow the jump to
>tend toward the minus side of the +/- 20%, while a failed roll might tend
>toward the + side.


Who cares about theoretical physics- what you came up with is a cool game
thing that makes it just a little more fun to be an engineer. I like it and
I'm gonna use it.

>I like this since it gives the skills and duties of the ship's engineer a
>greater scope. Sort of the Scotty syndrome. A VERY good engineer can shave
>time off of jump (while remainng within the scope of the rules), while a
>poor engineer (of lower skill level) can have adverse effects on the
>duration of jump.


Total agreement! Has anyone else done a similar thing?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 17:10:36 -0500
From: "N. Eric Phillips" <stilleon@io.com>
Subject: Re: More question

Well- Ive read a lot of great responses and I've decided how I am going to
handle this in my FUDGE GURPS Traveller game. It is very important because
one character is an former experimental Jump Drive designer who tried to
create a "controlled misjump" drive. (It should be noted that it didn't
work).

I'll give you my way of handling this question by question.

2. Can you do an EVA while in jumpspace?

Yes- but only in the most extreme emergency. To do it can kill a person
because the field holding jumpspace at bay averages 1 meter above the
surface of the vessel. There may be nooks and crannies of the surface with
more or less headroom.

Exposure to jumpspace is fatal 99.999999% of the time- except maybe for a
one time player character thing where they survive but have to deal with
horrible physical consequences (or mental- I like Chris Seamens idea of
Cthulu being out the window<G>!!)


3. What do you see out the window while in a jump?

An undulating grey mass. I like that- its easy to say.


4. Is the J-Drive actually working while in Jump Space or does it just work
to get you to "break on through to the other side" )as Jim Morrison might
say) then it goes cold and you wait for natural forces to dump you back
into normal space?

The jump drive charges the capactors to hold the integrity of the jump field
but the drives are cold after entering jumpspace.


5. Can you force an emergency exit from jumpspace?


No. The entry into jumpspace is by ballistic motion- you are moving towards
the exit and can't control it otherwise. You can be forced out of jumpspace
by the hyper-tunnel passing within 100 diameters of a star or planet.
However- it still takes the week no matter if you get to where you are
going- halfway or even end up where you started.

That's the way I'm handling it. Anyways- thanks everyone.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 23:20:20 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Noble rank expansion

David Smart writes:

>Some months ago (okay, last year maybe) someone posted their expansion of
>Noble ranks (about 14 levels as I recall).

That would be me. I've posted it several times, the last time not so very
many months ago.

>Would that someone mind reposting it again?

I think it is a bit too soon for that, but I'll e-mail it to you. Anybody
else who wants can also e-mail me for it.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 15:19:10 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Ship Design. Sane and otherwise.

>From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
>Subject: Re: Ship Design. Sane and otherwise.
...
>>	Yes Ditzie, you can call the 4-4s the Rabid Impregnable Beach Ball
>>from Hell.  Given the savings over conventional SBDs, why stop at 10 cm of
...

Dear Capitalist Tool,
  Please be advised that you seem to be encroaching on our trademarked
products, specifically the "Rabid Poodle" MR-SDB and our only recently
released IBbFH class vessel (Colonial Cruiser, suppression of revolting
primitives, use thereof; issued one per trade world).

  Back off, you sicko deviants, or we'll spray the headlines with stories
of your perverted practices and abusive exploitation of children in your
design sweatshops (even if the precocious little tykes are psychotic drug-
heads).

        Yours in commerce, etc.
                X, VP Branding, Mad Animal Shipwrighting 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 09:31:01 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Lone Wolf (was: Re: System Defense spending on Gov 7 worlds)

Dear Folks -

Steven Hudson wrote:
>  Which is almost exactly how the 2300 AD scenario "Lone Wolf" can play
>given the various players victory conditions - it's from a Challenge
>(around #40?) and is up on a 2300 AD site somewhere. Fantastic work.

I was re-reading this the other day, and realised that "Lone Wolf" was
written by none other than Dave Nilsen...!

I also like the follow-on scenario, "Three Blind Mice" (was this also by
Dave? I'll have to check). I designed a TL 15 MT stealth starship (ie.
covert surveillance ship) for the Ine Givar, based primarily on the
silhouette in this article. The PC's ended up swiping it, of course (that
being the intention of the scenario ;-). Imagine their surprise when they
realised the missile storage area had been designed to carry nukes...
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 17:59:41 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Noble rank expansion 

> David Smart writes:
> 
> >Some months ago (okay, last year maybe) someone posted their expansion of
> >Noble ranks (about 14 levels as I recall).
> 
> That would be me. I've posted it several times, the last time not so very
> many months ago.

I put one out myself awhile back, based on some stuff I did for one of my old 
games.

> >Would that someone mind reposting it again?

As you wish....

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 18:03:53 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: REpost: Nobility Variant

> dberry@hooked.net wrote
> 
> > >> Rebellion Sourcebook specifically mentioned that Strephon supported 
> > >> his nephews Varian, and Lucan, and even gave them apartments in the 
> > >> palace, but then again, it implied that they (especially Lucan) 
> > >> were were of a pain in the A--, than the British Royals. :-)
> 
> > >But did they have jug ears & tend to fall off of riding beasts while 
> > >showing off the Imperial bloodline?
> 
> > Well, we know that Strephon seemed more fond of sailing than ruling. >(TD #9)
> 
> Strephon may have prefered sailing to ruling but he, arguably unlike the
> other royals we are discussing, was more capable of ruling than sailing.

I'm working on Yet Another CT Noble Rework, something I used to use a LOT when 
I was an active GM with my CT group.  It was roughly based on on an article I 
read in Adventure Gamer Magazine ca. 1981 called 'Scepter & Starship'.  It was 
a pretty nifty variant for *Imperial* nobles, but needed some work as soon as 
MT came out.  Since I'm in the process of doing a PBEM, I was gonna dust it 
off and redo it anyways, so...  <grin>

In any event, here's the *temporary* social standings from 10 to 21, both 
Imperial and planetary:

  SS              Imp Title          Planetary Title
   A                UMC                 UMC
   B             Knight/Dame        Knight/Dame
   C           Baron/Baroness      Baron/Baroness
   D          Marquis/Marquessa   Marquis/Marquessa
   E           Count/Countess       Count/Countess
   F            Duke/Duchess         Duke/Duchess
   G          Viscout/<??>         Viscount/<??>
   H          Viceroy/<??>         Viceroy/<??>
   I       Archduke/Archduchess    Prince/Princess
   J         Prince/Princess        King/Queen
   K       Crown Prince/Princess      --/--
   L         Emperor/Empress          --/--

Some notes here.  'Planetary' royalty *IS* Imperial royalty up to SS F. Their 
oath of fealty is to the Emperor *through* their King/Queen.

Planetary Viscounts and Viceroys outrank Imperial Dukes *ONLY* when on their 
home planet, otherwise, they are considered to be Imperial Dukes/Duchesses.

An Imperial Archduke would outrank everybody *but* the Planetary Crown 
Prince/Princess or Planetary King/Queen when on a planet with a hereditary 
monarchy in theory, but in practice would be the King's leigelord's immediate 
henchman.  (I.E., the king would owe fealty *to* the Emperor *THROUGH* the 
Archduke).

Imperial Viceroy is a title given to one who is in effect Imperial governor of 
several systems in a subsector.  They'd be directly answerable to the Archduke.

Benefits, such as ways of generating holdings, etc, will follow in a further 
post.

> Emperor Strephon [at the time of his "assasination" in 1116]
> 
> 667ABH	[they list his Soc as only F, which is obviously an error, unless
> you wish to argue that these are the "real" stats for the assasinated
> clone]	Age 66

As you can see by what I've posted, his actual Social Standing would be L.
 
> The CT stats for Strephon (TD #9 pg 17)
> 
> Admin _6_	Leader _5_
> 
> These are pretty good evidence that Strephon was a good leader.  They
> just happened to be overshadowed by his disadvantage - Enemy: Dulinor

I'm surprised there were no weapons skills whatsoever.  Yes, he *is* 'the 
man', but concieveably there would come a time when he might *NEED* to be able 
to defend himself (Can you say 'Dulinor'?).  I'm sure he rectified this 
omission later...

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 10:05:47 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Steerage Class (Was "What are drop tanks? Additional Questions")

Dear Folks -

Peter Brenton wrote:
>So I can bring quite a few steerage passengers or troops by converting my
>cargo bay cum fuel bladders into a bunkroom just after entering jump.
[snip]
>Ok, could someone please poke holes in this logic?  I don't really think
>players should be doing this.

Works OK for short periods (IMTU, we got a number of people out of Ruie
like this, before it became a Red Zone - OK, so the players were
responsible for THAT too...  ;-).

However, I rule that it takes its toll on the life-support system (and is
responsible for the Chief Engineer's frazelled look!). Your ship will end
up smelling like a scoutship with that old General Products air filter
system, and you better make sure you have enough food for the "passengers".
I think the old LBB's and maybe MT contained some replenishment rules -
anyone got a copy handy?

You can make it unpleasant enough to justify a -DM (or raised Diff level,
depending on your ruleset ;-), so the PC's will do it in an emergency but
not as a regular thing.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1116
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Monday, November 9 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 1117



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Lone Wolf (was: Re: System Defense spending on Gov 7 worlds)
Re: More Questions
Playtesting some piarte encounters
Library Data (etc) on the Web
Cthulhu and Jumpspace
Re: More question
Re: More question
[none]
re Jump Drives
Re Fusion+ and Firestorms
limit on grav plates?
Re: More question
Imperial Spies
floorplans of TI & TJ class frontier transport ships
Re: floorplans of TI & TJ class frontier transport ships
Re: floorplans of TI & TJ class frontier transport ships
Re: floorplans of TI & TJ class frontier transport ships
Re: HG and Long Range shootin'
Re : Fusion Plus : Evil or Not?
Medicine In Traveller : Psychiatry and Mental Illness (long)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 17:00:00 -0600
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Lone Wolf (was: Re: System Defense spending on Gov 7 worlds)

These articles can actually be found online at
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arcade/2303/ke03000.htm

tv
(2300 AD lurker on Traveller list) 


>Steven Hudson wrote:
>>  Which is almost exactly how the 2300 AD scenario "Lone Wolf" can play
>>given the various players victory conditions - it's from a Challenge
>>(around #40?) and is up on a 2300 AD site somewhere. Fantastic work.
>
>I was re-reading this the other day, and realised that "Lone Wolf" was
>written by none other than Dave Nilsen...!
>
>I also like the follow-on scenario, "Three Blind Mice" (was this also by
>Dave? I'll have to check). I designed a TL 15 MT stealth starship (ie.
>covert surveillance ship) for the Ine Givar, based primarily on the
>silhouette in this article. The PC's ended up swiping it, of course (that
>being the intention of the scenario ;-). Imagine their surprise when they
>realised the missile storage area had been designed to carry nukes...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 18:29:41 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re: More Questions

"N. Eric Phillips" <stilleon@io.com> asks:

> More question
>
>Simple question first:

 All Answers IMTU ("In My Traveller Universe")

>
>1. How do you pronounce "Ine Givar?"
>

 EYE-nuh Giv-AHR

>
>Now the Jump drive questions:
>
>2. Can you do an EVA while in jumpspace?
>

And come back? No.

>
>3. What do you see out the window while in a jump?
>

Swirling silver fog seen through a sort of soap-bubble effect. Those stupid
enough to try measuring these things discover that the "soap bubble" averages
about a meter off the hull.

>
>4. Is the J-Drive actually working while in Jump Space or does it just work
>to get you to "break on through to the other side" )as Jim Morrison might
>say) then it goes cold and you wait for natural forces to dump you back into
>normal space?
>

 My J-Drives suck the tanks dry at Jump initiation but remain "on" for the
duration of the jump. The drive resets and shuts down completely as the ship
exits jumpspace.

>
>5. Can you force an emergency exit from jumpspace?
>

No.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 16:45:33 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@shell.rt66.com>
Subject: Playtesting some piarte encounters

Howdy,

I played out a few pirate encounters this weekend. I used High
Guard, but I tagged on movement--the Mayday system, but I used
the Brilliant Lances scale (I used 30,000km/hex and 30 minute turns 
instead of Mayday's 300,000km/hex and hundred minute turns). I just
blew off the fact that HG claims 20 minute turns compare to BL's 30
minutes.

I called 2 hexes or under "Short range" by HG standards (close to
what MT calls short range). Maximum HG range is over 150 hexes using
MT ranges.

I used the corsair from MT (400 tons, 4 triple beam turrets, and it
has the same computer as the ever present 400ton SDB I used (out of
traders and gunboats). The pirate had to disable and board a type R.
I gave the type R a triple sandcaster, and a triple beam laser
turret. I assumed that the SDB had to scramble from the planet, and
that the 100d limit was at 900kkm (30 hexes). The SDB is in orbit
the turn after the pirate attacks the type R.

I assumed that the pirate would attack after the type R gets about
halfway to the jump point. There were a couple reasons (I figured
this out by playing out the movement):

1. You need to let the merchant get his velocity up so that he can't
turn around quickly.

2. You need to keep as far away from the planet as possible so
you're not so close to planetary defenses.

I also assumed that the pirate pretends to be on a course to orbit
the planet, but changes towards a matching course as soon as the
attack starts.

Battles:

The pirate can disable the target fairly quickly. I used two
batteries of 2 triple lasers, and got a critical each time a battery
hits. Sand doesn't help the target much (and I didn't let him use it
on the first shot (surprise)). The type R can't hit the pirate often
due to computer differences/low factor. The SDB can attack as soon
as it is in orbit, but has a hard time hitting the pirate, and can't
critical it with its lasers. Missiles take about 2 turns to hit on
average.

Conclusions (in no particular order):

1. the 400ton SDB sucks for antipiracy work, IMO--using HG. It should 
have all one kind of weapon to maximize the damage it deals out (in
BL and beyond the mixed weapons are OK, actually). Use a 4 triple
laser SDB in one battery and the pirate is toast. Better yet, build
a 500ton one with 5 turrets if you are using HG.

2. The pirate is under fire from turn 2 on regardless of 1 (above).
I don't think it would be a healthy job. If the SDB were designed
better for anti-piracy work (something you'd expect if that is a
primary role for it) then the pirate wouldn't have a chance to
capture the merchant (though he might survive).

3. I tried having the pirate cripple the type R then waste the SDB.
This can work, and give the SDB in question is the best idea
(assuming the planet only scrambles one SDB--dumb given that they'd
no doubt run the same simulation). Once the missiles start hitting
the pirate is not so happy (nukes, unless he is already matched with
the merchant). 

4. The best bet for the pirate is to appear inbound, at low velocity,
and near the 100d limit. Attack the merchant when it is very near to
the limit, and hope you trash the drives in the first shots (a
reasonable gamble with 2 critical, and 2 regular hits for each
attack). If you do this, it can't jump, even at the limit. Try to
board and scoot. Otherwise, jump yourself.

5. I think that systems that faced piracy and weren't strategically
important enough to have naval SDBs around would have ships in low
orbit that can take a pirate. A 500 ton, laser armed SDB would be
the way to go.

6. With the exception of some idealized case, matching vectors with
the merchant should take at least 2, maybe 3-4 turns (1-2 hours)
given the 3g pirate in MT. 

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 10:46:42 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Library Data (etc) on the Web

Dear Folks -

Brandon Quina wrote:

>>The following information is paraphrased from "Classic" Traveller
>> "Supplement 11: Library Data (N-Z)".
>Intresting.  I imagine there's alot more information in those book
>than is located in the 62 pages of Library Data in Chapter 2 of GURPS:
>Traveller.  Shame I can't get ahold of them;  they'd no doubt be a
>very intresting read and probally useful too.

I posted a direct letter to Brandon, but maybe it's time to let the other
G:T players know as well: there are at least three sites I know of that
contain this (canonical!) Library Data. One of them is mine, and the others
(eg Mark Seeman's) can be accessed through my "Traveller Jump Points" page
(along with as many other Trav sites as I have been able to find!). Just
search the page for "library data".

BTW, if you have a Trav site that is not in my list, please let me know. At
home I have a list of sites that I am working through, but I may not have
your address as yet.

[The other thing slowing me down is that I have just converted from Win3.11
on a DX2-66 to Win95 on a P133. I have only just worked out how to
reconnect to my ISP, let alone how to FTP any changes to my site!]
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 18:12:10 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Cthulhu and Jumpspace

Now I understand why it's referred to as the "Wyrmhole Theory" of Jump
Drive Operation....  <refusing to duck>

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 23:56:14 +0000 (GMT)
From: Traveller <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: More question

>  "Jonas Karlsson" <Jonas.Karlsson@baldakinen.umea.se> wrote:

> >So, basically, Jumpspace is Chiba City?
> >"The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead
> >channel."
> >
> >;-)

On 08 Nov, SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> wrote:

> Except (as someone mentioned recently) modern TVs display a deep blue
> screen when they're on a dead channel...

Another example of canon changing between CT and T4?

:-)

Phil Kitching

- -- 
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technology Division
"Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the galaxy."
Phil Kitching on postmark.design@btinternet.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 23:56:09 +0000 (GMT)
From: Traveller <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: More question

> >Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:36:26 -0500
> >From: "N. Eric Phillips" <stilleon@io.com>

> >5. Can you force an emergency exit from jumpspace?

On 08 Nov, David P. Summers <summers@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> If you want to force a misjump (if you are lucky).

The problem with this is that according to CT, the time in jumpspace
for a misjump goes up from about 1 week to 1d6 weeks (later Traveller
versions may vary).

There is nothing in the rules that I am aware of that lets you emerge
from jumpspace in less than 1 week give or take a few hours.

Phil Kitching

- -- 
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technology Division
"Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the galaxy."
Phil Kitching on postmark.design@btinternet.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 15:57:33 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: [none]

>>Size is a pretty course DM in HG, or you could use the added hull
>>sizes of both ships, and see if you made a hit on the "big" ship, or
>>rolled good enough to only hit the actual target (the pirate). This
>>meathod works great to hit specifc areas in other combat systems (if
>>you can hit a 1 ton missile, then why not a 1 ton sized area on a
>>200ton ship (or 0.1ton if its CT)?
>
>That's basically where I got my +1DM to lock and shooting for hit a
>specific location in BL: As at any one time you should be able to see 10 of
>the 20 locations each location is 1/10 of the apparent size of the target.
>In BL the hull sizes go up by a factor of ten at each step, so one hit
>location is the same as a ship one size smaller. The only thing that
>bothers me is that I have a feeling that to get this sort of lock you would
>need a better sensor resolution than just getting a lock on the ship as a
>whole. If this is true maybe the lock task DM should be +2.

Keep in mind that a ship can be resolved sufficient to hit it with 2m
resolution just fine. A 1m diameter turret will need better than 1m
resolution to be resolved as separate from the ship... at 25cm you can make
out the rounding, and at 10cm it becomes obious. Think of the starship
mini's as being what kind of details you get at about 5cm resolution... at
least based upon the yacht and patrol cutter mini's.

Also, will you be able to target a specific location W/R/T the ship's own
movements and Time-To-Target-Lag?

I never allow called shots in space combat if you cannot target at that
range effectively with the Mk 1 Eyeball.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:aramis@gci.net> Note: All other E-mail addresses for me expire by
the end of november 1998!
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
UTUP 0309 6-7779577-5-5-2
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 16:11:11 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: re Jump Drives

>On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, Bruce Alan Macintosh wrote:
>
>
>> No. Jumps always, always, always take 6-8 days; there's no way to exit any
>> sooner than that, not even in an emergency.
>>
>> (Otherwise jump-6 ships could make jump-1 in a day...)
>
>Yes, I know this is an unalterable law in all published traveller
>backgrounds, but has anybody ever beenable to figure out a sensible
>(pseudoscientific) reason why this would be so? (Because it¥s canon
>will_not do here!)
>
>- -------------
>Eppu Tuominen
>eptitu@utu.fi
>- -------------

Well, IMTU, it is because jumpspace treates realspace like the surface of a
ball, and jumping causes you to generate a gravity-powered "fall" through a
parabolic tunnel from point to point along the surface. Any gravity powered
fall with enough initial 'kicker' energy to make up for entropic losses
will always take the same time for any two points on the sphere. Jump
drives provide enoguh kicker to gaurantee coming out the other end...
assuming you tunneled to the surface with the intital tumbleset.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:aramis@gci.net> Note: All other E-mail addresses for me expire by
the end of november 1998!
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
UTUP 0309 6-7779577-5-5-2
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 16:29:17 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re Fusion+ and Firestorms

>	Why do I have this feeling this will ignite a serious firestorm...:-)

it just might

>	It seems that there is an almost universal dislike in the TML of
>Fusion+.  I
>am curious just why everyone hates it so much?  As I see it, it is the type of
>reactor that MT used...the higher power output aside (which can be modified to
>the regular level if necessary) it means fueling the power plant for a month
>instead of a year (thus returning endurance as a factor to starships again).
>It also allows me to swallow the Thrusters a little easier...they are not
>"exactly" reactionless, as a lot of fuel is used as reaction mass.  I realize
>one arguement was that fuel consumption in Trav Fusion plants were
>rediculously high...this would solve/explain it, IMHO.

I never felt that the MT fuel useage was too high... I also assumed much
lower energy conversion than many of the gearheads do. I disliek Fusion+
because it was a rules-mechanic addition SOLELY TO JUSTIFY A POORLY THOUGHT
OUT BIT OF CANNON ADDITION. (i.e., how could Cleon have coopted so many
worlds into the early 3i) If you're going to change the technological
assumptions for realism, fine. If you're going to change them to match the
existing canon, fine. If you're going to make new technological assumptions
entirely, count me out. T4 did this. T4 did this in an unsubtle way. As for
thrusters, I never though of CT thrusters as anything other than T-plates.
So HG and MT's t-plates were not only no surpriser, but what I expected.

Personally, I disliked the level of detail in TNE/FF&S. MT was at times too
much, but CT (Bk2/Bk5) was never enough. MT works for me. Given my
druthers, I'd see MT republished in a two or three volume set, with some
minor upgrades and all the erratta applied... MWM has already said not just
not, but something close to a "Hell no!", although quite politely. So, I
will continue to run MT with tweaks (Why not, since MT or anything like it
(mechanically, not BG wise) has been ixnayed by MWM for future publication)
until my books can no longer be used even from within page protectors in
notebooks. But I'm unlikely to ever run TNE again, nor T4, and I doubt I'll
think T5 much an improvement (altho' I hope MWM surprises me with something
I'll like). I don't think I'll play GT; I've tried in the past, and the
GURPS rules, IMNSHO, just cannot support the "Look and Feel" of the OTU,
let alone my slight deviations from it.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:aramis@gci.net> Note: All other E-mail addresses for me expire by
the end of november 1998!
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
UTUP 0309 6-7779577-5-5-2
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 19:29:40 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: limit on grav plates?

In last night's session, the PCs' yacht was boarded by some armed
intruders just before departure. After a protracted gun battle, the PCs
realized, correctly, that they were going to lose this fight.

The pilot of the yacht came up with the idea of turning up the gravity
in the areas occupied by the enemy to 10Gs. 

Now, I _thought_ I read somewhere that there was an upper limit of
something like 2Gs for standard starship grav plates, but I couldn't
find the reference anywhere. So I let the PC do it, but at a rate of 1G
increase per combat round.

Is my memory failing? Is there a limit on the G forces grav plates can
be set to? If so, where is the reference for that limit?
- -- 
Erwin Fritz
UNIX/NT/LAN/DBA Guy
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 18:54:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
Subject: Re: More question

> > >5. Can you force an emergency exit from jumpspace?
> 
> The problem with this is that according to CT, the time in jumpspace
> for a misjump goes up from about 1 week to 1d6 weeks (later Traveller
> versions may vary).

Hmm...   If this is the case, then there MUST be a way to make your life
support stretch for up to six weeks without recharge, or else a misjump
would be a death sentence for the crew.

On that logic, there must be a way to make your life support work for up
to six times the normal number of people for one week if necessary.

Comments?

- --
Brannon (Ben) Boren
brannonb@blarg.net
http://www.solaria.net/brannonb/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 22:25:01 -0500
From: "N. Eric Phillips" <stilleon@io.com>
Subject: Imperial Spies

Youse guys have been the best filling me in with needed info.

Tell me about spy organizations that the Imperial runs. I see in G:T p. 99 a
reference to spies. I'd like to add some cloak & dagger to the game.

Thanx in advance.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 22:32:48 -0600
From: "Leif O. Pihl" <pihlx001@tc.umn.edu>
Subject: floorplans of TI & TJ class frontier transport ships

Page 80 of GURPS Traveller mentions the TI and TJ class frontier transports.

Does anyone out there know of floorplans (and/or stats) that exist for one
of both of these classes of ships?

Tanks,      LP


- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Leif O. Pihl
pager/voicemail: (612) 534-5235
           home: (612) 729-8277
        ICQ no.: 16954097
www.isa.org/~twinc/                                      ISA Twin Cities' page
www.memorial4x4.org                       MN-Go4 Wheelers' Memorial Event page
umn.edu/~pihlx001/                                 personal page [out of date]
www.tc.umn.edu/nlhome/g018/pihlx001/LPsJeepTJ/             Leif's Jeep TJ site
www.tc.umn.edu/nlhome/g018/pihlx001/geneology/Blomfeldt.html       family tree
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------¸

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 23:55:01 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: floorplans of TI & TJ class frontier transport ships

Jeff,

Gypsycomet created some nice work on the type TJ. I'm in the process of
createing a rather different take on the type TI, to be followed by the type
TJ. They aren't nearly complete yet. When they are I'll be posting them to
my webpage in .PDF format. Otherwise I don't know of any deck plans for
these two ships.

Mike Peters, Letterworks@CITnet.com
webpage:"Jump Point" http://users.citnet.com/Letterworks/
"For my part, I travel not to go anywhere, but to go. I travel for travel's
sake. The great affair is to move."
Robert Louis Stevenson


- -----Original Message-----
From: Leif O. Pihl <pihlx001@tc.umn.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>; trav-tech@qrc.com
<trav-tech@qrc.com>
Date: Sunday, November 08, 1998 11:45 PM
Subject: floorplans of TI & TJ class frontier transport ships


>
>Page 80 of GURPS Traveller mentions the TI and TJ class frontier
transports.
>
>Does anyone out there know of floorplans (and/or stats) that exist for one
>of both of these classes of ships?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 00:00:40 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: floorplans of TI & TJ class frontier transport ships

Whoops, brain lock! I appologise Leif for calling you Jeff in my last post!
Trying to do two things at once! My mom warned me not to try and walk and
chew gum at the same time, since it was too much of a strain.

Mike Peters, Letterworks@CITnet.com
webpage:"Jump Point" http://users.citnet.com/Letterworks/
"For my part, I travel not to go anywhere, but to go. I travel for travel's
sake. The great affair is to move."
Robert Louis Stevenson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 18:17:59 +1300
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: floorplans of TI & TJ class frontier transport ships

>Page 80 of GURPS Traveller mentions the TI and TJ class frontier
transports.
>
>Does anyone out there know of floorplans (and/or stats) that exist for one
>of both of these classes of ships?

The stats for both are in CT in the Traveller Adventure, also in TNE in the
World Tamers Handbook there are stats for the TI class. I haven't seen any
floorplans anywhere though.

Cheers,
 Anson

I want to die in my sleep like my grandfather,
not screaming and yelling like the passengers in his car.

UTUP 0910 B-115A15E-C-C-A

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 23:20:28 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@shell.rt66.com>
Subject: Re: HG and Long Range shootin'

 
> >One, lasers don't have target agility as a DM, while sub-c weapons
> >do (except missiles, presumably because they can also maneuver).
> >Evasion (agility in HG) in reality works better at longer ranges
> >(all the math shows this).
> 
> Merrick, _TCS_ says in p12 (HG rules clarifications and errata), _Agility
> is a maesure of the amount of energy available to the ships' maneuver
> drives, even when other operations are in progress. As such, agility is an
> extremely important aspect of any combat ship. Agility serves as a
> defensive DM on the throw to hit for all weapons types._
 
Doh! You're right. I never bothered to read that since it was under
"clarifications." I just glossed over that part. Yeesh.

> It effects combat in three ways -
 
This I knew (we'll 'cept the "all attacks" use as a DM (when only
one table in HG shows it as a DM)).

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 18:05:20 +1100
From: "Robert O'Connor" <Robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re : Fusion Plus : Evil or Not?

Dusty wrote :-

>         It seems that there is an almost universal dislike in the TML of Fusion+.  I
> am curious just why everyone hates it so much?  As I see it, it is the type of
> reactor that MT used...the higher power output aside (which can be modified to
> the regular level if necessary) it means fueling the power plant for a month
> instead of a year (thus returning endurance as a factor to starships again).
> It also allows me to swallow the Thrusters a little easier...they are not
> "exactly" reactionless, as a lot of fuel is used as reaction mass.  I realize
> one arguement was that fuel consumption in Trav Fusion plants were
> rediculously high...this would solve/explain it, IMHO.
>
Cold fusion got lot of bad press because it started out as bad science.
The traditional fusion plants in Traveller are hot reactors.
They use star-hot deuterium (and later, plain hydrogen) to generate
usable energy.

Probable reactions :-
deuterium - catalysed D-D fusion : deuterium -> helium-4 plus protons
and neutrons ; mass to energy conversion 3.84 X 10^(-3)
i.e. 1kg of fuel gets 3.84g converted to energy
hydrogen - CNO cycle or catalysed proton chain :
4H -> He-4 + energy :- mass to energy conversion 6.1 X 10^(-3)

Canonical fuel levels i.e. 21kg deuterium per MW-year or 7kg LH2
don't make sense : there's not enough fuel to provide adequate cooling
(open Brayton cycle?)

There is one explanation, and some may find it unpalatable.
The fuel requirement is correct, but only a very small fraction is
burned (about 1%).

So, like GURPS and 2300, fusion reactors are boxes you fuel every
century or so. Maintenance should be performed every 18 months to two
years because of neutron-induced degradation of the structure...

A plausible model for Fusion+ is muon catalysed fusion.
Replacing electrons with muons creates smaller atoms (muon is about
240 times heavier than the electron) and it is easier to get nuclei
close to each other.

The dreadful (fuel -> work) efficiency of Fusion+ (0.06%) could be
explained by the energy required to generate a reasonable number of
muons, or a low fractional burnup and open cycling - 1.5L of heavy water
per (3 to 10!!) MW-hours wouldn't provide too much cooling though, would
it?
The superheated steam plumes given off are very unstealthy (and
wasteful, since it's D2O you are throwing into the air...)

My thruster handwave :-
Thrusters are like jump drives - they permit access to the underlying
structure of space. Instead of punching a hole through it, thrusters
grab on to and permit movement along the substrate (like the FTL drives
in Ian Bank's books).

Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gearhead, Gaming Enthusiast

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 18:05:48 +1100
From: "Robert O'Connor" <Robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Medicine In Traveller : Psychiatry and Mental Illness (long)

Psychiatry and Mental Illness
Afflictions of the mind have always been with us.
As medical knowledge advances, it becomes apparent that
about 20% of the population will experience some form
of illness requiring psychiatric treatment during their
lifetime. This value seems to be constant across a wide
range of cultures and technology levels.

Precipitants
The majority of mental illnesses are reactions to adverse
situations experienced in life, from the horrific to the
merely strange.
Most first become manifest in early adulthood.
Some underlying predispositions exist. The question of
'nature vs nurture' would appear to be irrelevant.
Inherited factors, mainly dealing with neurochemistry and
perception are as important as personality styles developed
during childhood and adolescence.

Classification
1. Anxiety and the neuroses
 - phobias
 - obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD)
 - post-traumatic stress syndrome
2. Disorders of mood
 - depression
 - bipolar disorder
3. Disorders of reality perception
 - schizophrenia
 - delirium

*Anxiety and the neuroses
Anxiety is a normal physiological response in anticipation
of a potential stressor.
The body and mind become primed for 'fight or flight' ;
breathing and pulse quicken, senses are on full alert.
It is very useful - up to a point.
Beyond this limit, it becomes counter-productive, even
destructive.
Headaches, abdominal pain, palpitations, nausea, vomitting,
diarrhoea, 'pins and needles' in the extremities,
and a general feeling of impending doom are symptoms of a
severe anxiety attack.

We can regard anxiety disorders as arising from either :-
Inappropriate stressors ;
Inappropriate threshold for initiating anxiety response ; or
Inappropriate response to stressors.

Phobias
We usually remember bad events rather than good ones. This
would appear to be an ineradicable part of human nature.
A particularly stressful event may lead to a fear
of objects, concepts or situations which remind one of that
occurrence.
Most people have little quirks of this sort eg. fear of the
number 13, insects, needles, etc.
Most people can control the anxiety these stressors generate.
However, some cannot.

Post-traumatic stress syndrome
This is very similar to a phobia.
The provocative event is usually awful (eg. losing a
spouse or a close friend in horrific circumstances).
Situations can arise much later in life which trigger an
uncontrollable, vivid episode of recall : colloquially,
a 'flashback'. These are often disabling in their intensity.

Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD)
The normal routines of daily life, and the requirement for
some baseline level of vigilance in one's affairs is by and
large taken for granted. These are things which happen almost
automatically.
An undue focus on certain of these tasks, and an abnormal fear
of the consequences if these tasks are not successfully
completed, characterises OCD.

Key elements :-
Rituals - certain activities must be done in the same way,
every time, otherwise disaster will ensue.
Eg. handwashing with a fresh bar of soap (no-one else's
germs could be on a fresh bar of soap).
Rituals may be interlinked eg. counting or tapping out a
beat to ensure hands are washed for just the right amount
of time.

Repetition - rituals must be completed many times a day to
prevent disaster striking.
Eg. handwashing after touching each utensil used to prepare
food.

Rumination - thinking centres around what needs to be done
to prevent a disastrous outcome. These thoughts often bubble
along under the surface, and are a considerable distraction.
Eg. Have I washed the dishes? Are they clean? I'll have to
check... No, safer to wash them again, just to be sure...

Fear of uncleanliness or infection is a common symptom complex.
Rituals can range from minor (must wash hands for EXACTLY sixty
seconds) to socially difficult (bringing own eating utensils
to a restaurant).

Jack Nicholson's performance in "As Good As It Gets" is a
good portrayal of OCD symptoms, apart from the occasional
display of disinhibited behaviour.

*Disorders of Mood
It is normal to experience a wide range of emotions, from joy
to sadness to anger and a myriad of shades in between during one's
life. Blunting of this response is not.

Depression
The most common severe psychiatric disorder, depression is a
sustained state of sadness far beyond that considered usual
for a given precipitant, with disabling symptoms.
Fatigue, wide variations in sleep requirement, eating patterns,
and general feelings of inadequacy or worthlessness are some
common symptoms of depression.

In severe cases, withdrawal from social contact can be almost
total. Thoughts of worthlessness, guilt, and even physical
decay remain uppermost in the mind, or become increasingly
difficult to banish.

Psychotic depression arises when one's experiences and sensations
are inappropriately filtered through this haze of negative
thoughts.
("I cannot open my bowels ; if I go to the toilet, the stuff
will explode and destroy the city" - a quote from one of the
more memorable mentally ill people I have interviewed).

Bipolar Disorder (aka manic-depressive disorder)
Mood alternates between severely depressed and excessively
elevated.
This latter state is known as mania.

Your thoughts move very rapidly ; it's often difficult to
express them to other people, they're flying so thick and fast.
It is difficult to concentrate on a given topic. Even
seemingly unrelated ideas will be interconnected, somehow.
(It's just that everyone else can't think at your level).
Eating and sleeping aren't terribly important. You've
never felt so alive. You can do anything, anything at all.

Behaviour is disinhibited and can be quite impulsive,
inappropriate and uncharacteristic eg. excessive spending,
drug abuse, sexual activity.
Bank accounts and reputations have often been devastated during
manic upswings.

Cycling between depression and mania is unpredictable initially.
Those that survive long enough (suicide in 20-30% of those
affected after five years, untreated) tend to settle down into
a more regular pattern.

*Disorders of Reality Perception
One's concept of self, and the way the world would appear to
work, evolves over time. By adulthood, most people have a
stable, broadly similar 'model of the outside world' and
'self concept'.
Some however, do not. Stressors ranging from the demands of
work or study, or some drugs of abuse (eg. amphetamines, LSD)
can wreak havoc on these vulnerable persons.
The consequences can be profound and tragic.

Schizophrenia
A global disturbance of perception and thought.
Emotional expression is blunted or inappropriate for a given
situation.
The thought processes become ponderous, but disconnected almost
to the point of randomness.
Hallucinations - abnormal interpretations of ordinary sense data -
are commonplace.

It is quite easy for life's ordinary events to acquire undue
significance and/or bizarre explanations as a result.
Eg. the mailman comes by every day because he is watching me...

Paranoia - the delusion that everyone else wishes (to do) you
harm - is a relatively common feature of schizophrenia. It
can also be seen in psychotic depression and delirium (see below).

Such thinking is regarded as delusional when it is impossible
to convince someone that these ideas are inaccurate to some
extent (if not wildly incorrect), regardless of the
assembled evidence.

Like depression, eating and sleeping requirements can vary
wildly.
Like OCD, rituals and rumination are commonplace.
Unlike either of these two illnesses, insight - the recognition
that there are abnormal thoughts and behaviour - is usually
absent.

Delirium
A common occurrence during other illnesses eg. after major
surgery.
Orientation to time, place and person is usually lost.
The actions of people nearby are often interpreted in the most
negative way (eg. "The nurse is here to kill me" or "You've
broken into my bedroom! Get out before I call the police!").

Risk factors : severity of illness, extremes of age, sensory
impairment (blindness, deafness), sedative medications,
drug withdrawal, unfamiliar environment,
sleep deprivation (especially common with busy ICUs), etc.

Delirium is usually self-limiting unless dementia is present,
in which case it may be the initial event leading to the
eventual diagnosis of dementia.

*Falling Ill : Game rules
As mentioned earlier, early adulthood is the most common time for
psychiatric illnesses to become manifest.
For gaming purposes, it may be easiest to have a flat 20% chance
of developing some problem during chargen in the first three terms.

Proposed task :-
To avoid developing a mental illness during chargen :-

Average, (Int+End)/2 each term

+1 difficulty level if survival roll almost fails, dishonorable
discharge or heroic behaviour (post-traumatic stress?).
+1 difficulty level if fails college or other advanced education
(cause or effect?).
+1 difficulty level if abusing psychoactive drugs (moderate to
severe central nervous system stimulants or depressants).
Easy if greater than third term.

Disorders (2D) :-
2 Schizophrenia
3-4 Bipolar Disorder
5-8 Depression
9-11 Anxiety Disorder (phobia, post-traumatic stress)
12 OCD

Severity
For depression, OCD and anxiety disorders :-
1-3 Mild
4-5 Moderate
6   Severe

All other disorders (including post-traumatic stress) are severe.

Game Effects
(Don't forget to roleplay!)
Anxiety disorders : triggering factors need to be specified.

To avoid having an anxiety attack :-
(difficulty), (Int+End)/2

Base difficulty is Easy
Mild     Average
Moderate Difficult
Severe   Formidable

Effects of failure, required precipitant :-
Mild : -1 DM to all tasks, require fairly strong trigger eg.
skydiving for first time
Moderate : all tasks one difficulty level harder, average trigger
eg. typical blind date
Severe : all tasks two difficulty levels harder, inappropriate
trigger eg. opening the front door and stepping outside.

OCD :- as above, task is to avoid falling into ritualistic
behaviour.

Post-traumatic stress :- generally moderate to severe.
Task is similar to that above.

Depression :- as above, but deeper depressions require more
powerful triggering factors.
Additionally, 1 point per day is taken from Str, End or Dex to
simulate fatigue. Spectacular Failure on avoidance checks :-
lose 2D promptly to represent decompensation.

Bipolar Disorder :- as per depression, for depressive phases.
Mania :- +1 to Str, End, Dex and Int. All tasks are one level
easier, unless concentration and/or computation are required,
in which case they are one level worse.

A Difficult, End check is made at the end of each week of a manic
upswing to see if it has run its course.

Success or spectacular success : normalisation of mood.
Failure : continues
Spectacular Failure : severe depression ensues.

Until treatment is obtained, roll 1D each month to determine mood.
1-2 depressed, 3-4 normal (interlude), 5-6 manic.

Schizophrenia :- Int and Edu suffer a -2 penalty.
All tasks are one difficulty level harder. These penalties
are an attempt to reflect thought disorder and hallucinations.
Task failure may lead to extreme agitation or catatonic stupor
on Spectacular Failure (dice randomly).
(+2 to physical attributes if agitated ; cannot initiate any
actions if catatonic).

*The Treatment and the Cure
Psychiatry has its beginnings in the 'scientific revolution'
which is regarded as one of the features of Tech Levels 3 to 4
on standard indices.

Prior to this, the mentally ill were regarded as blessed or
cursed by the gods and warehoused, ignored, revered, or reviled
accordingly.

Competing theories of the genesis and progression of mental
illnesses arise.

Initially, psychotic disorders are treated most vigorously, with
methods ranging from intensive talk therapy through to electroshock,
drug-induced comas and lobotomy (TL 4-5).

By Tech Level 6, effective treatments have arisen for
depression and schizophrenia. Medications control most of the
worst symptoms but have other unintended side effects on the
cardiovascular and nervous system which are often severe.
Minor tranquillisers are widely used to treat anxiety.

By Tech Level 8, it is apparent that anxiety disorders and
OCD are best treated by a combination of cognitive-behavioural
therapy (problem behaviours are identified and strategies
devised to usefully modify or eliminate them) and mild
psychoactive medication.
The biochemical and neurophysiological bases of schizophrenia
and depression are beginning to be seriously explored during
this period.

Increasing knowledge in the fields of molecular biology and
neurophysiology yield highly effective treatments for depression
and schizophrenia by TL 12. These medications are very selective
and thus have no 'spill-over' side effects.
(TL 12 ; tens of milligram potencies ; moderate nervous system
stimulants or depressants ; rare allergy or intolerance (Major
or Destroyed damage on Spectacular Failure of catastrophe check)
; safety margin 50 ; abuse potential low).
However, treatment is required for life with schizophrenia and
severe depression.

Brain-computer interfaces and memory reading are developed at
TL 14. One of the first uses of the technology is in clinical
psychiatry in an attempt to treat refractory mental illnesses.
The destructive nature of the reading process, combined with the
lack of control over rewriting, soon leads to the abandonment
of the technique in legitimate medical circles.
It is entirely possible that certain technically advanced but
socially repressive societies use such methods to stifle political
dissent or punish other 'criminals'.

Given the reputed success of psionically oriented societies such
as the Zhodani in treating psychiatric illnesses, a lot of
medical research is devoted to perfecting technological
'mind reading and reconstruction' in the Imperium, despite the
prevailing cultural climate.

*Rules
Psychiatrists are doctors with high skill (at least 3) in Psychology
and Interview.
Psychiatric nurses need at least skill 2 in Psychology and Interview.

To diagnose mental illness :
Average, Medical, Edu, uncertain

DMs to uncertainty roll :-
+2 if TL 7+
+3 if TL 9+
+4 if TL 12+

Spectacular Failure : -2 DM to treatment task
Spectacular Success : +1 DM to treatment task

To treat mental illness :
(illness severity), Medical, Edu, uncertain

Severity  Difficulty
Mild      Average
Moderate  Difficult
Severe    Formidable

DMs to uncertainty and success rolls :-
electroshock therapy for severe depression +2 (1)
TL 6+ psychoactive medications +2
Cognitive behavioural therapy (TL 7-8) +2
TL 12+ psychoactive medications +5
Talk therapy for psychotic illnesses -3
Drug comas for any illness -2 (1)

(1) - equivalent to general anaesthetic, requires appropriate
precautions.

Failure : catastrophe check - self-harm attempt made on failure
Spectacular Failure : suicide attempt made (ref specify circumstances)
Spectacular Success : Recovery rate improved by one level.

Illness Severity   Equivalent Damage Level
Mild               Minor (2D)
Moderate           Major (4D)
Severe             Destroyed (6D)

Recovery : as per trauma rules, dice for a random amount of damage
or use points penalties described earlier eg. for depression.

Costs : psychiatric care is equivalent to hospital ward or home
care in this regard. The home care figure is for a psychiatric nurse's
visit.
Additionally, twice a week, a psychiatrist must be consulted.
This costs 50Cr for a half hour session.

*Notes and Miscellany
Psychiatry is an important branch of medicine.
It unfortunately provides oppressive cultures with another means
of controlling the populace.
Dissidents can be labelled 'mentally ill' and be 'hospitalised'.
Psychoactive medications can be used as adjuncts to interrogation.
Psychosurgical methods can be used to ensure obedience, or at least
suppression of 'problem behaviours'.

Next time : Equipment, and wrapping up.

Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gearhead, Gaming Enthusiast

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1117
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Traveller-digest      Monday, November 9 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 1118



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Medicine In Traveller : Gear and Miscellany (longish)
Re : Medicine in Traveller : Gear, etc. - OOPS!
Re: limit on grav plates?
Re: Imperial Spies
Re: Imperial Spies
Re: re Jump Drives
Re: floorplans of TI & TJ class frontier transport ships
Re: floorplans of TI & TJ class frontier transport ships
Re: New Poster and GURPS: Traveller
Re GURPS Skills
GT and Virus
Re: More question
Re: Fusion+
Re: Taking The Hit

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 18:06:19 +1100
From: "Robert O'Connor" <Robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Medicine In Traveller : Gear and Miscellany (longish)

Gear Descriptions (proposed, notes) and other miscellany :-

*Automeds : are initially a stretcher which can serve as
an ICU bed with all equipment (monitors, ventilator, IV
pumps) built in.
The following features are added at higher TLs :-

TL  Comments
8   as per basic description.
9   medical expert system added, plus portable labs
10  optional chill berth module
12  medical robot inbuilt (Minimum skill medical-3)
13  optional low berth module (portable gravisonic
    modulator capacity)

TL  Volume   Weight   Cost
8   0.5      250      0.25
9   0.5      500      0.5
10  +0.25    +300     +0.25 (chill berth module)
12  +0.1     +100     +0.5  (medical robot)
13  +0.25    +400     +0.5  (low berth module)

Volume in cubic metres, weight in kg, cost in MCr
TL 9+ systems have inbuilt grav modules to offset mass.

*Doctor's bags and first aid kits.
The doctor's bag contains the equipment and drugs necessary to :-
conduct a resuscitation (no chest drains or defibrillator) ;
perform minor surgery (eg. suture a laceration) ;
treat common ailments (allergy/asthma/heart attack or failure/pain
some common infections).
First aid kits contain bandages, antiseptics and occasionally
slings and foil blankets (the latter for treating hypothermia).

Medkit / doctor's bag
5+  20L     10kg      1000
First aid (traveller's)
7   0.5L    0.2kg     100

*Drugs :-
It is assumed the main determinant of price is TL.
Base price (TL X 16) if TL 9 or less ; (TL X 40) if TL 10+
X 10 per tech level below TL of introduction (TL 9-, else X 4).

TL  Example Agent Novelty price  Unit    Base Price
4   Early vaccine 480            1 dose  48
4   Blood         64             1 dose  64
4   GA/LA         640            1 dose  64
5   antibiotics   800            1 week  80
6   psychoactives 960            1 week  96
7   immunosupp.   1120           1 week  112
8   antivirals    1280           1 month 128
9   fast drug     1440           1 dose  144
10  broad spect.  1600           1 dose  400
12  psychoactives 1920           1 week  480
13  broad spect.  2080           1 dose  520
15  anagathics    24000          1 dose  unchanged (1 month supply)

Prices are typically by the unit or part thereof (see table).
Novelty price : at TL before introduction, or early in TL of
introduction.
Discounting : Flat -20% per tech level above introduction.
Minimum cost 20% of base price.

Other Notes :-
Banked blood needs to be grouped below TL 9 (incompatible blood
transfusion is equivalent to a Destroyed level drug overdose).
At TL 9+, all banked blood and blood products are stripped of blood
group antigens and this no longer applies.
Ensure group compatibility with impromptu infusions!
Blood requires refrigeration at 4 degrees C. It has a usable life of
eight weeks.

Other IV fluids come in 0.1, 0.5 and 1L bags. Cost is 5Cr per litre.

Local anaesthetics are liquids for injection or topical creams or
patches at TL 7+.

General anaesthetics are available in injectable form from TL 5+.
Continuous IV infusion often supplants inhalational anaesthesia from
TL 9+.

Slow drug (=combat drug) as per fast drug.
Medical slow drug is restricted availability (must prove ability
to provide ICU or hospital ward level care).

Most drugs do not require refrigeration, merely storage in a cool
dry place.

*Investigational Equipment
Laboratories : for simplicity, assume that the shipboard lab module
described in FF&S is equivalent to a ground-based lab.
In a very large hospital or pathology service, each discipline may
require a separate lab eg. anatomical pathology, microbiology,
haematology, biochemistry, etc.

The portable lab :-
The TL 8 portable blood lab is 1.5kg and 1.5L in volume.
A drop of blood is placed in a small well on a cartridge about half
the size of a playing card. The cartridge is inserted into the lab box,
which interrogates the sensors on the cartridge. Analysis is complete
within two minutes. Results are displayed on an LCD screen on the front
of the box.
Cartridges are disposable, and cost 2-4Cr each.
The lab box costs 3000Cr, and runs on a rechargeable battery.

The TL 9 lab can also perform microbiological analyses on body fluids.
It costs 4000Cr. Size and weight are identical. Micro cartridges
are 5Cr each. Results are obtained in five minutes.

Scanners, etc.
X-ray machines are fixed installations at TL 4.
By TL 6, mobile units (300kg, 1m3) are available.
Small (radar gun) sized fluoroscopes are available as early as
TL 5, but their penetrance and resolution is relatively low.

Ultrasound machines begin as large mobile units (300kg, 1-2m3).
Small Doppler (flow/no flow sensing) devices are available by
TL 8, which are the size of a transistor radio).
Small imaging devices do not become available until TL 12 (pocket med
scanner).

CT scanners are fixed installations.
Price begins at 2MCr at TL7 falling to 0.25MCr by TL 9.

MR scanners are fixed installations. Considerable magnetic shielding
is required.
Price begins at 2MCr at TL8 falling to 0.25MCr by TL 10.

Antiproton CT and meson scanners are fixed installations.
Design as C-PAWs or meson guns with a discharge energy of 1kJ and
a range of 2m.

The gravisonic modulator begins as an installation (rate as 1G
inertial compensation for 2m3) and gets smaller as TL improves
(treat as ultrasound : 300kg/1m3 at TL 12, 100kg/0.3m3 at TL 13).

The Medscanner
As described in previous publications.
TL 12, weight 0.2kg, volume 0.1L, cost 10500Cr

Medscanner-computer : TL 12, 2kg, 1L, 25000Cr

*Life Support Devices
TL 7 : dialysis, cardiopulmonary bypass :- 300kg, 1m3

The life support suit :-
TL  Vol/L  Wt/kg   Price/KCr
10  60     30      100
11  40     20      50
12  20     10      30
13+ 20     5       40

Can provide heart/lung/liver/kidney replacement.
Requires surgical procedure to connect to patient.
(Difficult, Medical, Dex).
Has no armour rating.

*Outpatient visits (going to the doctor)
The standard consultation fee is 20Cr for
fifteen minutes.
More eminent physicians may charge much more than this.

The cost of attendances is built in to the cost of
hospital care (see trauma rules), for simplicity.

*Surgical Instruments
Usually considered part of a theatre setup.
The set specified below will suffice for procedures up to Major
level damage ; it has sufficient equipment for a single procedure
in a single region (long or complex surgery may require 6 or more sets
of instruments).

TL  Vol     Weight    Price
4+  4L      4kg       2000

*A few words of explanation



*Wrapping Up
I apologise for the variable quality of these articles.
(Shift work can really wreck the concentration) ;-)

Thanks to everyone who provided suggestions or inspiration for
various topics which appeared in this series.

Please feel free to offer constructive criticism or topics for
further discussion. I will reply to any emails sent me as soon as
possible.

Finally, thank you for your attention, and happy gaming!

Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gearhead and Gaming Enthusiast

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 18:17:47 +1100
From: "Robert O'Connor" <Robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re : Medicine in Traveller : Gear, etc. - OOPS!

Ye gods, I sent the wrong version of my screed!
Amendments follow :-

*Doctor's bags :-
Drugs carried are to treat common ailments, or resuscitate.
Higher tech level bags contain better drugs and instruments.
Portable labs are usually carried at TL 9+.
Medscanners are usually carried at TL 12+.

*Defibrillators :-
Deliver DC current to the heart in an attempt to 'reset' the muscle.
Defibrillation is the
treatment of choice in VF, given a normal body temperature.
The energy delivered can be adjusted from 50 to 360J ; typical current
is about 10-40A.
Weight is 10kg, volume 4L at TL 7. The usual power source is a
rechargeable battery.
A defibrillator adds +4 to the chance of treating VF in someone with
pure cardiac standstill.
Otherwise, it adds +1.

Advanced bandages described in the Trauma Notes :-

>For Superficial and Minor injuries :-
>Enhanced wound healing doubles the rate of recovery at TL 9+
>Triples it at TL 12+
>(gentle growth quickening and tissue culture tech)

These are impregnated with growth promoting factors (and repair machines
if your TU permits). Or, they could be a course of pills
to go along with 'dumb dressings'.
Cost 144Cr per week (TL 9), or (TL X 40) for higher TLs.
Weight is 250g. Volume is 0.25L.

*A few words of explanation
Q : What is 'pathophysiology'?
Physiology is the science which deals with the normal function of
organs, and entire organisms
(on an individual basis).
Pathophysiology is medspeak for the physical basis of a pathological
(abnormal) process being
discussed, e.g. gunshot
injury.

Q : What are you talking about with airway manoeuvres?
Airway anatomy :-The nose and mouth join in a common pathway at the top
of the throat - the
pharynx.
Just above the 'Adam's apple' in the neck (laryngeal prominence) is the
entry to the windpipe
or trachea, the larynx.
The vocal cords are situated in the top of the larynx. A muscular flap,
the epiglottis, sits
above the laryngeal opening.
It normally protects the lungs from soiling with food on swallowing or
vomitting.(Requires an
intact reflex arc).
The trachea continues into the chest, where it bifurcates to supply each
lung.
Nasopharyngeal airway - nostril to pharynx
Oropharyngeal airway - mouth to pharynx
Laryngeal mask - inserted into mouth, end covers the laryngeal opening.
Endotracheal tube - can be inserted through nose or mouth, end sits in
the trachea above the
bifurcation point.

Surgical airways :-
Just below the laryngeal prominence is a small 'gap' in the midline.
This is the cricothyroid
membrane.
Making an incision or puncture and passing an airway tube into the
trachea here is relatively
easy.
Tracheostomies - holes in the trachea - can be made below this level.
The utility of surgical airways becomes evident with major facial
injury.

Q : What's an analgesic ?
Analgesic : 'painkiller'.
Mild - aspirin, acetaminophen (paracetamol in U.K. and Aust.), codeine.
Strong - morphine, meperidine (Demerol ; pethidine in U.K. and Aust.)

Q : What's a cannula ?
Cannula : an IV line. More precisely, a tube inserted into a blood
vessel to permit vascular
access. Can be peripherally inserted (into limb veins), or centrally
(into jugular or
subclavian veins, etc).
Arterial cannulae are commonly placed in very ill people to facilitate
blood sampling as well
as direct blood pressure measurement.

Q : Define 'hypotension'.
Hypotension : a level of blood pressure that jeopardises organ
perfusion. Shock becomes evident
when organ dysfunction occurs - usually the brain, lungs and heart
first, hence the symptoms.

*To get you into an Emergency Room mood :-
"When attending a cardiac arrest, the most important thing to do is to
check your own pulse." ;
"Remember, it isn't over until you've certified them (until the body bag
is zipped??)." ; and
"There are no dangerous drugs, just unskilled users."

Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gearhead, Gaming Enthusiast

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 11:00:59 +0000
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: limit on grav plates?

At 19:29 08/11/98 -0700, Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com> wrote:
>In last night's session, the PCs' yacht was boarded by some armed
>intruders just before departure. After a protracted gun battle, the PCs
>realized, correctly, that they were going to lose this fight.
>
>The pilot of the yacht came up with the idea of turning up the gravity
>in the areas occupied by the enemy to 10Gs. 
>
>Now, I _thought_ I read somewhere that there was an upper limit of
>something like 2Gs for standard starship grav plates, but I couldn't
>find the reference anywhere. So I let the PC do it, but at a rate of 1G
>increase per combat round.
>
>Is my memory failing? Is there a limit on the G forces grav plates can
>be set to? If so, where is the reference for that limit?
>-- 

yes - it depends on tech level and the ship design.

Max G compensation is 1G at TL10, rising to 6G at TL15.
Most people seem to assume that this G-Comp is the setting that the internal
gravity field can be set to.
Because it is expensive, max G comp will rarely be greater than the G rating
of the ship.
If the ship is built to a budget (or tech limits), with decks perpendicular
to the axis of thrust, the the G-comp can be 1G less than max thrust.
Large military ships would tend to have all the G-Comp possible because
when they spin round to thrust in a different direction, the accelerations
at the extremities can be very high.

Note that you could (in theory) use the G-Comp to reinforce the ship's
acceleration so that 5G acceleration - (-5G G Comp) = 10G but I would be
surprised if a Yatch could do more than 2+2 = 4G.

However, I don't recall this as being explicitly stated anywhere.
It is possible to interpret G-Comp as specifically something that
cancels out acceleration effects inside the ship (and then you have the
1G artificial gravity so the crew does not float around). In this case
you cannot turn the plates up to 10G as part of the anti hijack routines.

Note
The Vehicle Design System for T4 in the Central Supply Catalog allows G-Comp
to be stacked as much as you want, but that seems to make a mess of the
rest of Traveller by allowing 100G fighters.
- --
  Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
 "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 03:20:09 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Imperial Spies

At 10:25 PM 11/8/98 -0500, you wrote:

>Tell me about spy organizations that the Imperial runs. I see in G:T p. 99 a
>reference to spies. I'd like to add some cloak & dagger to the game.

Well.... 

Imperial Naval Intelligence.  does most of the military intel work
Imperial Interstellar Scout Service.  does almost everything else

and of course every noble and megacorp keep their own stable of agents.

all of this is IMTU of course.

- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 12:23:19 +0000
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Imperial Spies

At 03:20 09/11/98 -0800, Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net wrote:
>At 10:25 PM 11/8/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>Tell me about spy organizations that the Imperial runs. I see in G:T p. 99 a
>>reference to spies. I'd like to add some cloak & dagger to the game.
>
>Well.... 
>
>Imperial Naval Intelligence.  does most of the military intel work
>Imperial Interstellar Scout Service.  does almost everything else
>
>and of course every noble and megacorp keep their own stable of agents.
>
>all of this is IMTU of course.
>
T4 mentions the "Office of Calendar Compliance".

IMTU this enforces Imperial mandated standards (eg the calendar).

One prospective PC recruit thought that checking the local media mentions
the Emperor's birthday on the right date sounded a bit boring.

However I plan to have it investigate all compliance with Imperial policy.
This would include state supported piracy, slavery or the use of
nuclear weapons.

By 1100, it might be part of IISS, or be the Emperor's own service,
or perhaps it didn't survive the civil wars.

Phil Kitching

You don't have to believe the following.
I don't.

<conspiracy theory mode = on>

In M0 you're rarely more than a few parsecs from the border so piracy
as a form of low level trade war is possible.
As the 3I expands, the activities of the OCC and INI plus a few
"bombed back to the stone age" demonstrations by the IN means that
there should be little piracy in core
sector by 1100.
So all those OCC people are back to checking the Emperor's birthday.
Unless there is piracy.
Unless they built corsairs and gave them to detached duty agents.
Unless the agents run round Core sector for a few months - knowing
where all the IN ships will be and only attacking free traders...

Then they could leave the crew and tip off the IN.

This would explain:
	a) why the corsair is designed to capture free traders and
	   scouts but useless in combat with anything else.
	b) Why the anti-piracy ships are few in number and could not
	   combat a properly equipped corsair.
	c) Why the free traders are forever encountering pirates
	   but the IN does not seem to care.
	d) Why the bank rate on those Type A's is so low: some may skip
	   payments, but most get captured by pirates within a couple
	   of years and then the bank gets the ship back to "sell" to
	   someone else for 20% down.

<conspiracy theory mode = off>

;-)
- --
  Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
 "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 08:32:40 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: re Jump Drives

In a message dated 11/8/98 7:41:28 PM Central Standard Time, aramis@gci.net
writes:

<< >Yes, I know this is an unalterable law in all published traveller
 >backgrounds, but has anybody ever beenable to figure out a sensible
 >(pseudoscientific) reason why this would be so? (Because it¥s canon
 >will_not do here!) >>

The explanation is that the conditions within the jump universe are such that
distance travelled is independent of time (it is dependent on energy instead).
I suppose that can be dismissed as a handwave, but no one can really "explain"
why the equations of our universe produce some of the results they do...
instead, the equations reflect what we observe.

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 08:44:12 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: floorplans of TI & TJ class frontier transport ships

"Leif O. Pihl" <pihlx001@tc.umn.edu> writes:
>Page 80 of GURPS Traveller mentions the TI and TJ class frontier
>transports.
>
>Does anyone out there know of floorplans (and/or stats) that exist for one
>of both of these classes of ships?

Stats exist, just can't remember where right now. Would be one of the
MegaTraveller books, I think, although TNE might have redesigned the ships
for Regency Sourcebook as well.

IIRC, there were also _partial_ deckplans published in one of the older CT
works, as part of an adventure. My memory says an 8.5x11 book, and
something to do with aliens (hm Vargr or Alien Realms?)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 08:44:12 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: floorplans of TI & TJ class frontier transport ships

"Leif O. Pihl" <pihlx001@tc.umn.edu> writes:
>Page 80 of GURPS Traveller mentions the TI and TJ class frontier
>transports.
>
>Does anyone out there know of floorplans (and/or stats) that exist for one
>of both of these classes of ships?

Stats exist, just can't remember where right now. Would be one of the
MegaTraveller books, I think, although TNE might have redesigned the ships
for Regency Sourcebook as well.

IIRC, there were also _partial_ deckplans published in one of the older CT
works, as part of an adventure. My memory says an 8.5x11 book, and
something to do with aliens (hm Vargr or Alien Realms?)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 08:05:42 -0600
From: "James Pearson" <jdpearson@wr.net>
Subject: Re: New Poster and GURPS: Traveller

> Actually, there is a hell of alot more stuff out there. Books and books
> worth in fact. Different amounts are useful depending on how much work you
> want to do in your campaign.

There are lots of really great websites out there with tons of information.  I 
started playing Traveller again after almost 10 years and a lot had changed.  
The Traveller Webring and sites created by the people on this list really helped 
fill in the gaps ... especially because it's so hard to get some of that old 
material.  Check out Joe Heck's Library Data page at
http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/traveller/library/library_data.html

 -- James Pearson
"The purpose of a referee is to present obstacles 
for players to overcome as they go about seeking 
their goals, not to constantly make trouble for them.
This is a very subtle distinction ..."

The Traveller Book, p. 12

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/4089

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 08:05:42 -0600
From: "James Pearson" <jdpearson@wr.net>
Subject: Re GURPS Skills

I've found that Compedium I has been an invaluable resource for my GURPS campaigns.  
It contains a listing of all the skills created since Basic was published.  It also 
describes many of the changes to skills.  The Appendix alone is worth the 
price of the book.  It lists Advantages, Disadvantages, & Skills, along with their 
point costs.

As far as skills themselves are concerned, GURPS tends to have you 
specialize in everything.  Instead of just having a "Mechanics" skill and an 
Electronics skill, you'll have stuff like Engineering(Mechanics) or 
Engineering(Jump Drive), and Electronics(Lockpicking), Electronics(Robotics), 
etc.  Ulike other versions of Traveller which just had Mechanics;  Engineering; 
Robotics; etc.




 -- James Pearson
"The purpose of a referee is to present obstacles 
for players to overcome as they go about seeking 
their goals, not to constantly make trouble for them.
This is a very subtle distinction ..."

The Traveller Book, p. 12

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/4089

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 09:16:48 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: GT and Virus

David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: New Poster and GURPS: Traveller

>Sat, 7 Nov 1998 00:02:20 +0200 (EET), Eppu Tuominen <eptitu@utu.fi>
>
>>Exactly, that was one of the scenarios I considered, when I first heard
>>about the GT world background. (Just check out Dan Simmons¥ Hyperion
>>cantos for a well thought out example of What _really_ big AIs running
>>rampant can do to a human society.)
>> Of course SJG probably wouldn¥t want to totally slag the big nice
>>universe they just went to so much trouble saving. Guess the Cymbeline
>>stuff is mostly out of official GT campaign.
>
>Mostly for different reasons.
>
>GURPS really isn't into "one" way of doing things and I don't think they
> would have a fundamental objection to persenting an alternate where
>Virus (or something like it, occured).  However, I'm guessing they would
>see a Virus setting source book as something that wouldn't have enough
>appeal (esp. since they aren't going to be able to develop it the way they
>are developing GT) and wouldn't warrant pushing back some other GT
>supplement (in addition to the question about rights, AFAIK Mark Miller
>doesn't have rights to Virus).  The feeling I get from SJG is that they think
>they need to have  a really well supported setting and they aren't
>going to be interested in diluting that into two subsettings, each of which
>has mediocre support.
>
>Now that isn't to say that they wouldn't welcome a pyramid article on
>(say :-) using GT and Reign of Steel/Robots to run a Virus compaign.
>Nor is there anything to stop you from making one up yourself.

There is, however, something to prevent me from writing about it. The license
between SJ Games and Far Future specifically forbids virus as a plot element.
Also, we can't have an Imperium-wide rebellion, and Strephon stays alive.

Of course, none of you guys are bound by that agreement, and you are free to
do what you want (provided it breaks no laws). 

Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:17:52 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: More question

Brannon Boren writes:

>>The problem with this is that according to CT, the time in jumpspace
>>for a misjump goes up from about 1 week to 1d6 weeks (later Traveller
>>versions may vary).
> 
>Hmm...   If this is the case, then there MUST be a way to make your life
>support stretch for up to six weeks without recharge, or else a misjump
>would be a death sentence for the crew.
> 
>On that logic, there must be a way to make your life support work for up
>to six times the normal number of people for one week if necessary.

Fast drug. IMTU a plentiful supply of Fast Drug is standard, mandatory
equipment for all ships.
 
Sufficient emergency low berths for all passengers and crew are also required
for all ships licenced in the Imperium (still IMTU), which is one reason why
double bunking and steerage passengers are not legal (Which dosen't mean that
it dosen't occur a lot).


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 07:23:05 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Fusion+

DustyLV769@aol.com wrote:
> 
>         Why do I have this feeling this will ignite a serious firestorm...:-)
> 
>         It seems that there is an almost universal dislike in the TML of Fusion+.  I
> am curious just why everyone hates it so much?  As I see it, it is the type of
> reactor that MT used...the higher power output aside (which can be modified to
> the regular level if necessary) it means fueling the power plant for a month
> instead of a year (thus returning endurance as a factor to starships again).
> It also allows me to swallow the Thrusters a little easier...they are not
> "exactly" reactionless, as a lot of fuel is used as reaction mass.  I realize
> one arguement was that fuel consumption in Trav Fusion plants were
> rediculously high...this would solve/explain it, IMHO.
> 
>         Dusty

Actually, IIRC, there are only a few members of the list who really seem
to object to it. And since we now need carbon dating of the ashes to
determine when _that_ little discussion occured, I don't remember their reasoning.

From the viewpoint of someone trying to design small craft for the 57th
century, I found that Fusion+ fit very well, I like it, and use it
enthusiastically, and often. And look: no hair on my palms!

Seriously, without Fusion+ we're left with, essentially, incremental
advances on TL-7 powerplants for small vehicles, which is dumb, IMO.

It fits for a high-tech power source. Go ahead, call it a Advanced Fuel
Cell if you want, call it whatever, but it fits a very large hole in the
conceptual landscape for Traveller, between full scale fusion reactors
and, essentially, the V-8; a small, high output energy source for high
tech equipment.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 09:17:06 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: Taking The Hit

At 10:19 AM 11/8/98 +0000, you wrote:
> "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net> wrote:
>
>>At 03:48 pm 11/4/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>>The Patriots _psychological_ advantage, OTOH, helped dramatically,
>>>primarily by keeping Israel from turning Bahgdad into a large puddle
>>of slag in the desert.
>>	And this would have been bad because ... ?
>
>...of the Flamebait?
>
>Lets pretend to have a veneer of civilisation, and assume that there are
>some (say a lot) people who have oppose the Hussein totalitarian regime in
>Iraq, and that they're to scared to oppose it openly, shall we? There
>again, after several years of starving and lacking basic medical facilities
>they may attach a little of the blame to the US/UK etc who imposed the
>sanctions.
>
>Israel nukes Baghdad, and then the rest of the middle east goes up in
>flames. And all that fallout is quite close to Europe and on the edge of
>the Med. At the same time the US looses oil from the Gulf when the various
>nations around there are swept up in it.... follow the logic?

A small nuclear exchange (half dozzen missiles) would not affect Europe
much, since the fallout would mostly drift east.

A large exchange would be unlikely, since the nuking would be one sided.
The most any mideastern country would have are a few smuggled out of
Russia. Probably take out most of Israel, but not much more.

As far as oil, we import most of our oil from South America, Venesuela
mostly. If it were to become nescesarry, we could bring our own oil down
from Alaska, but it's less expensive to import from Venesuela.

>Ob-Trav - what would happen if a state in the Imperium launched an attack
>against another and destroyed it against the Imperial Rules of War?
>Something like the attack with Antimatter at the start of _Reality
>Dysfunction_ by Hamilton? Would the Imperium red zone the perpetrator or
>would it get red zoned then nuked and mesoned back to the stone age?
>
Most likely blockaded first in an attempt to extract reparations, then
invaded when the nation refused. Refer to the Ilelesh revolt section in
whatever canonical text you choose for a reference to the kind of force it
would likely bring to bear.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1118
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Traveller-digest      Monday, November 9 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 1119



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Antimatter and jump drives.
Re: "Gas-Giant Gang?"
Re: Creative use of Denitometers
Re: What are drop tanks? Additional questions
Re: Variant nobility
Re: limit on grav plates?
Re: More question
Re: GT and Virus
Re: GT and Virus
Re: Grav Tanks
Reminder Traveller Dinner in Boston 11/15
Re: Imperial Spies
Re: GT and Virus
Re: Fusion+
Re: More question 
Re: Antimatter and jump drives. 
Frontier Transports
Re: GT and Virus 
Re: GT and Virus 
Re: Antimatter and jump drives. 
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1116
Re: More question 
Re: FLGS in NJ/NY?
Re: HG and Long Range shootin'

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 09:26:30 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Antimatter and jump drives.

I am planing out a MT campaign based away from the Imperium. The main
campaign area will be between 2 large states, one of which uses antimater
drives primarily.

Question concerning the drives.

Antimatter power plants have fuel that lasts one year. If, by definition, a
jump drive is basically a type of power plant, does it's jump fuel last for
the equivalent of one year of use or would it need refueled after a number
of hexes equal to it's jump number just like a fusion based plant.

If it lasts for a year, this would basically mean that antimatter jump fuel
allows for 52 jumps at maximum range before the need to refuel, so a jump 2
antimatter drive could move 104 hexes in one year without refueling.

Comments, even from the peanut gallery, will be appreciated.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 09:24:42 -0500
From: Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil>
Subject: Re: "Gas-Giant Gang?"

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> > I was getting ready to respond to a post about subsidized merchants.
> > In particular, the poster had asked something about anti-trust 
> > 
[etc]
> >
> The Three Dolphin club was invented by G. Harry Stine as a better name
> thhan "Zero G club". The name is based on the factoid that due to the
> low friction environment in water, it takes *three* dolphins to get it
> on. He suggested that the same might be true in free fall.
> 
> Frankly, I don't think that there will be any sort of special club of
> the sort you describe. After all, do we have "clubs" for folks who've
> gotten it on while on an ocean going vessel? Nope. And we haven't been
> sailing as long as humans have been using spacecraft in the Third
> Imperium.
> 
> Consider, they've got 2000 years of jump drive just for the Solomani.

Agree.  You might have this kind of club for NON-travellers, you know,
those who are amateurs.  But as you point out, those who travel the star
lanes will not have anything like that.  You might have the 100-Star
Club, or something like that...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 09:38:15 -0500
From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
Subject: Re: Creative use of Denitometers

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 02:45:22 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Creative use of Denitometers
In mail you write:
> On Fri, 6 Nov 1998, Joseph R. Dietrich wrote:
>
BTW, that *is* an important point. In a lot of landing areas, the
natives will *not* be happy if you use up tons of the local water,
given that water will tend to be scarce in the sort of areas that are
safe to land a ship without constructing a port first.
888*****************
well you could always land the ship in an ocean or lake...most trader type
ships should float.

does an ocean qualify as class D?

:)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 09:58:34 -0500
From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
Subject: Re: What are drop tanks? Additional questions

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 17:24:53 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: What are drop tanks? Additional questions
Peter H. Brenton writes:
>As for expense, full life support, including heat, lights, atmosphere,
>water, food, sealed environment and waste recycling in Megatraveller has
>the following costs;
>
>Volume; .013 kl per kl of hull
>Cost;  cr510 per kl of hull
>weight; .013 tons per kl of hull
>power;  .004 MW per kl of hull.
You forgot the expendables. In MT, as in all the other Traveller versions,
each passenger and crew means an gross expenditure on the part of the ship
accounts of Cr2000 per jump (14 days at the most). As you know, I don't
think those espenses are plausible, but they are canonical.
*********************
the exeption of course is GT.  GT does not have expendables, but rather the
life support system provides everything needed for a certain number of
people.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:58:19 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Variant nobility

Keven R. Pittsinger writes:

>>David Smart writes:
>> 
>>>Some months ago (okay, last year maybe) someone posted their expansion of
>>>Noble ranks (about 14 levels as I recall).
>> 
>>That would be me. I've posted it several times, the last time not so very
>>many months ago.
> 
>I put one out myself awhile back, based on some stuff I did for one of my old 
>games.

Sorry, I must have missed that the first time around.
 
>In any event, here's the *temporary* social standings from 10 to 21, both 
>Imperial and planetary:
> 
>  SS              Imp Title          Planetary Title
>   A                UMC                 UMC
>   B             Knight/Dame        Knight/Dame
>   C           Baron/Baroness      Baron/Baroness
>   D          Marquis/Marquessa   Marquis/Marquessa

FYI: 'Marquessa is spanish IIRC. The correct English word for the wife if
a marquis or a woman who holds in her own right the position of a marquis
is 'marchioness'. ('Marquess' is a variant spelling of 'marquis').

>   E           Count/Countess       Count/Countess
>   F            Duke/Duchess         Duke/Duchess
>   G          Viscount/<??>         Viscount/<??>

Female version is 'Viscountess'. The rank of viscount in the English
peerage comed between baron and count (Just FYI; its entirely possible
that usage would change in 3000 years). 

>   H          Viceroy/<??>         Viceroy/<??>

FYI: A viceroy is usually a high noble temporarily appointed by a king to
govern in his name some place where he can't govern effectively himself.
It's just a fancier version of a governor. (Again, things could change in
3000 years.) I'm unsure what the female version would be. I think the wife
of a viceroy would be addressed by her husband's noble title (ie. if the
Duke of Simsalabim was the Viceroy of Faraway, he would be addressed as
viceroy, she as duchess). But I could be wrong.

>   I       Archduke/Archduchess    Prince/Princess
>   J         Prince/Princess        King/Queen
>   K       Crown Prince/Princess      --/--
>   L         Emperor/Empress          --/--

The two main objections I have to this system is 1) that an Imperial marquis,
some of whom are the rulers of worlds, would be much higher on the social
scale than a planetary marquis (who would be the ruler of, what, 1/100th
of a world; and 2) that planetary rulers would have all sorts of titles
that depended on their individual history. The ruler of Alell is the Captain.
If Alell has a nobility, the titles are propably all taken from starship
ranks. The nobles of a feudal technocracy might be called chairmen, CEOs, and 
Managers. Also, not all dukes are equal. In an (uncanonical) example I came
up with, one society had had a law stating that only nobles were allowed to
serve as officers. Then they had a crisis and had to expand their army a lot,
so they started enobling people left and right, with the result that today
they had barons who owed their titles to an ancestor who was a captain and
dukes that descended from brigade generals (Tableau: At a brilliant gala
ball. A man in a splendid, spiffed-up boiler suit is looking haughtily at a
man in a military uniform with small ducal crowns for rank insignia. Behind
the first man stands a small page carrying a silken pillow on which rests a
jewel-encrusted ceremonial monkey wrench. The first man speaks: "Miserable
worm! How dare you, a mere army duke, address me, The Chief Mechanic, without
being spoken to first?!")

Not all planetary nobilities would be feudal. The king of a constitutional
monarchy propably wouldn't be allowed to take oaths of fealthy from the
lower nobles.

>Imperial Viceroy is a title given to one who is in effect Imperial governor
>of several systems in a subsector.

That's what I would call an Imperial count. 

>They'd be directly answerable to the Archduke.

OK, that puts them one level higher in the hierachy and would make them
superior to Imperial counts, but still inferior to Imperial dukes (who
also answers to the Archduke, but control whole subsectors).


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 07:51:40 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: limit on grav plates?

Phil Kitching wrote:
> 
> >Now, I _thought_ I read somewhere that there was an upper limit of
> >something like 2Gs for standard starship grav plates, but I couldn't
> >find the reference anywhere. So I let the PC do it, but at a rate of 1G
> >increase per combat round.
> 
> Max G compensation is 1G at TL10, rising to 6G at TL15.
> Most people seem to assume that this G-Comp is the setting that the internal
> gravity field can be set to.
> Because it is expensive, max G comp will rarely be greater than the G rating
> of the ship.
> If the ship is built to a budget (or tech limits), with decks perpendicular
> to the axis of thrust, the the G-comp can be 1G less than max thrust.
> Large military ships would tend to have all the G-Comp possible because
> when they spin round to thrust in a different direction, the accelerations
> at the extremities can be very high.

If I understand you correctly, you're talking about the inertial compensation.
I'm talking about the artificial gravity, which is a different beast. Inertial
compensation should be at least equal to the G rating of the maneuver drive,
lest the passengers and crew find themselves pasted to walls during high
acceleration periods.

However, the artificial gravity settings are used primary to facilitate
loading/unloading of heavy cargo and to accommodate passengers requiring special
environments.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 08:13:49 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@shell.rt66.com>
Subject: Re: More question

 
> >>The problem with this is that according to CT, the time in jumpspace
> >>for a misjump goes up from about 1 week to 1d6 weeks (later Traveller
> >>versions may vary).
> > 
> >Hmm...   If this is the case, then there MUST be a way to make your life
> >support stretch for up to six weeks without recharge, or else a misjump
> >would be a death sentence for the crew.
 
Why? It says that the ship pops out of jumpspace after 6 weeks, I don't
see any requirement for the crew to be alive :-) 
 
Half the problem to solve if this happened would be trying to stay
alive. And I presume the only time you'd know something was wrong
would be after a week.

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 10:01:32 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: GT and Virus

Loren,
Does this imply that Pyramid WOULD NOT be interested in publishing articles
set in the Virus universe? (Personally I liked some elements of TNE, others
I was luke warm or cold too, I'm only asking to clarify the subject).

Thanks
Mike Peters, Letterworks@CITnet.com
webpage:"Jump Point" http://users.citnet.com/Letterworks/
"For my part, I travel not to go anywhere, but to go. I travel for travel's
sake. The great affair is to move."
Robert Louis Stevenson

- -----Original Message-----
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
To: TRAVELLER@MPGN.COM <TRAVELLER@MPGN.COM>
Date: Monday, November 09, 1998 9:29 AM
Subject: GT and Virus


>(Snipped)
>>Now that isn't to say that they wouldn't welcome a pyramid article on
>>(say :-) using GT and Reign of Steel/Robots to run a Virus compaign.
>>Nor is there anything to stop you from making one up yourself.
>
>There is, however, something to prevent me from writing about it. The
license
>between SJ Games and Far Future specifically forbids virus as a plot
element.
>Also, we can't have an Imperium-wide rebellion, and Strephon stays alive.
>
>Of course, none of you guys are bound by that agreement, and you are free
to
>do what you want (provided it breaks no laws).
>
>Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 17:36:00 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: GT and Virus

>Of course, none of you guys are bound by that agreement, and you are free to
>do what you want (provided it breaks no laws).
>
>Loren Wiseman

What!?

Please let us at least break the laws of conservation of momentum and
conservation of energy - it wouldn't be Traveller unless we did ;-)


/Anders Backman
Game developer and Lead Kibitzer at Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 12:13:15 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Grav Tanks

>At 19:07 7/11/98 +1300, Frank Pitt wrote:
>
>>Personally, I think a  grav tank with side ball turrets
>>sort of  like the old WWI Mark I  would make sense.
[snip]
>>
>>I doubt the reasoning behind top turrets in modern
>>tanks  ( being able to reduce overal height and firing
>>from hull-down positions ) will mean very much in
>>a grav-propelled, fusion-weaponed environment
[snip]
>
>Being of the "Grav-Tanks that GO High Will Die" school of thought I can't
>see any reason not to put the turret on top, and several resons to do so.
[snip]

Wow, Grav tank configuration debate.  Much more welcome than Piracy threads.

My own opinion is that over the course of history of gravitic combat,
advantages and drawdbacks of each of the proposed designs would emerge and
the actual fielded tank will evolve back and forth over time, as different
design philosophies become more and less fashionable.

In other words, you're all right.  Different areas, eras, or political
entities will develop their tanks according to different philosophies.  So
you will see a TL14 port-and-starboard ball turret main armament
rectangular tank alongside a TL13 turret-on-top ovoid tank along with a
TL15 fast-attack forward fixed main weapon tank even within a single
organization.

That said, the turret-on-top tank will benefit from heavy cover, the
fast-attack tank will dominate the far-view battlefield, and the
side-ball-turret tank will do medium well in both arenas.

Pete


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 12:18:53 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Reminder Traveller Dinner in Boston 11/15

Just a reminder.  I am hosting a Boston Traveller Dinner at Redbones in
Somerville Mass at 5pm on Sunday, November 15.  I have a few responses in
the box, but I would love to see more.

Respond directly to me withthe number of people.

Thanks,

Pete


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 11:28:49 -0600
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Imperial Spies

Phil Kitching wrote:

> At 03:20 09/11/98 -0800, Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net wrote:
> >At 10:25 PM 11/8/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >
> >>Tell me about spy organizations that the Imperial runs. I see in G:T
> p. 99 a
> >>reference to spies. I'd like to add some cloak & dagger to the game.
>
> >
> >Well....
> >
> >Imperial Naval Intelligence.  does most of the military intel work
> >Imperial Interstellar Scout Service.  does almost everything else
> >
> >and of course every noble and megacorp keep their own stable of
> agents.
> >
> >all of this is IMTU of course.
> >
> T4 mentions the "Office of Calendar Compliance".

Milieu 0 has a a nice list of them.  I don't have it in front of me
but in addition to the intelligence agencies already mentioned
here, one major intelligence service is the organization run by
the Thrid Undersecretary in the Ministry of (drat! I forgot).

IIRC, the Vilani Bureaux also maintained intelligence services.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 11:06:20 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: GT and Virus

>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
>Subject: GT and Virus
...
>There is, however, something to prevent me from writing about it. The license
>between SJ Games and Far Future specifically forbids virus as a plot element.
>Also, we can't have an Imperium-wide rebellion, and Strephon stays alive.
>
>Of course, none of you guys are bound by that agreement, and you are free to
>do what you want (provided it breaks no laws). 

  Which means that whatever we do with the Cymbeline chips in our campaigns is
OK, because we'll never be directly contradicted by G:T material, at least as
long as we don't have Virus affecting other aspects of the TU that SJG will be
addressing in detail in later books. Hmm, every cloud does have a silver lining?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 11:06:15 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Fusion+

>From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
>Subject: Re: Fusion+
...
>It fits for a high-tech power source. Go ahead, call it a Advanced Fuel
>Cell if you want, call it whatever, but it fits a very large hole in the
>conceptual landscape for Traveller, between full scale fusion reactors
>and, essentially, the V-8; a small, high output energy source for high
>tech equipment.

  I've got stats for a fuel cell scrawled in on my Striker charts, copied
from B:8, presumably:

 TL  Description        Output  Weight/m^3      Price   Fuel
  8  MHD turbine         0.60     1000 kg       KCr 10   300
  9  Fuel Cell           0.80     1600 kg       KCr 20    30
  9  Fusion              2.00     4000 kg       KCr 200    1.5

  It's certainly drastically superior to MHD's except for the shortest
performance profiles, and vastly cheaper compared to fusion. IIRC, B:8
also has it scale down more gracefully, inasmuch as fusion gets useless
at a much higher minimum than a fuel cell.

  I suspect that the fuel consumption may be gimped, though (?).

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 13:31:13 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: More question 

> 
> > > >5. Can you force an emergency exit from jumpspace?
> > 
> > The problem with this is that according to CT, the time in jumpspace
> > for a misjump goes up from about 1 week to 1d6 weeks (later Traveller
> > versions may vary).
> 
> Hmm...   If this is the case, then there MUST be a way to make your life
> support stretch for up to six weeks without recharge, or else a misjump
> would be a death sentence for the crew.

Sure there are.  Two ways in fact.  Low berths & medical fast drug.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 13:38:32 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Antimatter and jump drives. 

> I am planing out a MT campaign based away from the Imperium. The main
> campaign area will be between 2 large states, one of which uses antimater
> drives primarily.
> 
> Question concerning the drives.
> 
> Antimatter power plants have fuel that lasts one year. If, by definition, a
> jump drive is basically a type of power plant, does it's jump fuel last for
> the equivalent of one year of use or would it need refueled after a number
> of hexes equal to it's jump number just like a fusion based plant.

Lemme check on that.  *Methinks* it's 1 year at *idle*, not at full output.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 13:48:01 -0500
From: keith frye <kmfrye@carroll.com>
Subject: Frontier Transports

Lief O. Phil asked for

Stats for the Imperallines TI/TJ Frontier Transport can be found on pp
84,85 of "Rebellion Sourcebook." If you'd like me to email these to you,
just let me know.

KMFrye

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 13:54:15 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: GT and Virus 

>   Which means that whatever we do with the Cymbeline chips in our campaigns is
> OK, because we'll never be directly contradicted by G:T material, at least as
> long as we don't have Virus affecting other aspects of the TU that SJG will be
> addressing in detail in later books. Hmm, every cloud does have a silver lining?

Sentient starships?

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 21:42:09 +0200 (EET)
From: Eppu Tuominen <eptitu@utu.fi>
Subject: Re: GT and Virus 

On Mon, 9 Nov 1998, Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:

> >   Which means that whatever we do with the Cymbeline chips in our campaigns is
> > OK, because we'll never be directly contradicted by G:T material, at least as
> > long as we don't have Virus affecting other aspects of the TU that SJG will be
> > addressing in detail in later books. Hmm, every cloud does have a silver lining?
> 
> Sentient starships?
> 
> Keven

 Or how about sentient/semisentient starport traffic controls? Even the
original Dayo circuits kept a comlplete tamper-proof record of all IFF
signals it had recieved. By having Cymbeline-based Traffic control
networks, the Imperium could basically know what every single ship in at
least a domain-sized area has been up to. Presents some interesting new
dilemmas to PC:s playing fast-and-loose with import/export laws, no?

 BTW, a GURPS TL-12 (traveller TL 15-16) starship mainframe, built
according to CompendiumII rules is only a small step away from sentience
in any case.




- -------------
Eppu Tuominen
eptitu@utu.fi
- -------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 14:54:32 -0500
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: Antimatter and jump drives. 

At 01:38 PM 11/9/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> I am planing out a MT campaign based away from the Imperium. The main
>> campaign area will be between 2 large states, one of which uses antimater
>> drives primarily.
>> 
>> Question concerning the drives.
>> 
>> Antimatter power plants have fuel that lasts one year. If, by definition, a
>> jump drive is basically a type of power plant, does it's jump fuel last for
>> the equivalent of one year of use or would it need refueled after a number
>> of hexes equal to it's jump number just like a fusion based plant.
>
>Lemme check on that.  *Methinks* it's 1 year at *idle*, not at full output.
>
>Keven

Nope.  The consumption is for full output.

Kurt Feltenberger

“We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a
habit.”
- --- Aristotle ---

mailto:kurt@blazenet.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 07:40:41 +0000
From: John Wood <John@elvw.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1116

Well, it's time - Dulinor's assassination of (by?) Strephon, in this
digest...
 
John G. Wood  |  john@elvw.demon.co.uk  |  Oxford, United Kingdom
IMTU tc+ tm+ tn t4(+) ru--(+) ge 3i+ jt au- st ls+ hi++ so- zh+ pi+ jd++
Traveller IS Forms, Gal2CC, etc: http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 22:16:25 +0200 (EET)
From: Eppu Tuominen <eptitu@utu.fi>
Subject: Re: More question 

On Sun, 8 Nov 1998, Michael D. Peters wrote:

> Not being a well versed in theoretical physics I can see one thing from
> this. This might allow an expert engineer to "tune" the J-drive to greater
> or lesser efficiency. In game terms I'd say that a good skill roll while
> doing routine maintenance on the J-drive might tend to allow the jump to
> tend toward the minus side of the +/- 20%, while a failed roll might tend
> toward the + side.

 I agree 100%, have been using the very same concept in my Traveller game.
I also give the same bonus for very good astrogation rolls. The latter (in
my game) is actually easier if you are planning to double jump without
slowing down (your N-space vector) in the middle. Thus, if you have fuel
for two jumps, it is not too hard to cover twice your normal jump distance
in 12 days. Of course if you actually _fail_ the astogation roll... not
pleasant.

> It also allows scope to astrogation. THe astrogator is calculating the locus
> of the "tunnel" exit. Better astrogation can result in a closer exit to the
> 100 d point, and to the targeted main world. Poor astrogation can result in
> an exit point further from the 100 d point.

 Again, I agree. Which reminds me, I seem to recollect, that TNE rulesbook
allows jumps from only 10d away in an emergency (but not to 10d away). Is
this mentioned _anywhere_ else? And how come you can do it one way, but
not the other way? One haphazard explanation I could come up with is, that
since the majority of energy, that goes into the jump is used at entry,
this could be done in a greater interfering gravity, than the emergence 
which relies only on pseudoinertia.

- -------------
Eppu Tuominen
eptitu@utu.fi
- -------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:55:33 EST
From: JLAROSEE@aol.com
Subject: Re: FLGS in NJ/NY?

Hi-
  Can anyone recommend a FLGS near either end of the George Washington Bridge.
I'm going to be in New Jersey (Teaneck/Saddlebrook) for Thanksgiving weekend.
Please reply direct so we don't clutter the list. Thanks- J. LaRosee

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 16:51:28 EST
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: HG and Long Range shootin'

In a message dated 11/8/98 22:34:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,
merrick@shell.rt66.com writes:

<< > >One, lasers don't have target agility as a DM, while sub-c weapons
 > >do (except missiles, presumably because they can also maneuver).
 > >Evasion (agility in HG) in reality works better at longer ranges
 > >(all the math shows this).
 >  >>
Doh! You're right. I never bothered to read that since it was under
"clarifications." I just glossed over that part. Yeesh.

	I think maye there should not be a modifier...lasers are after all a light-
speed weapon, and ranges (in MT at least) make it fairly clear that combat is
extremely difficult beyond 1 LS (-1 per square/hex of range, max -DM of 8,
each square/hex 25000km)

Dusty

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1119
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Monday, November 9 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 1120



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

[OT] Re: Taking The Hit
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1119
Kurishdam/Arts and Entertainment: Beam Dancing
Re: [OT] Re: Taking The Hit
Grav tanks
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1103
Re: Antimatter and jump drives. 
Re: Antimatter and jump drives. 
[Off-Topic] Re: Taking The Hit
QSDS - Annililik Class-class Subsidized Liner
QSDS - Sirka Class-class Provincial Escort
QSDS - Walsh Class-class Gunned Trader

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 21:13:38 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: [OT] Re: Taking The Hit

Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net> wrote:

>A small nuclear exchange (half dozzen missiles) would not affect Europe
>much, since the fallout would mostly drift east.

So you would feel fine with a nuclear exchange in, say, central America or
the Caribbean?

Realistically, this is a flawed argument. *Chernobyl* went west and
contaminated the UK for example. If you feel fine about a local nuclear
exchange, well, that's your problem, but I'm sure the Egyptians, the
Italians, Greeks and Turks will be somewhat irritated. And don't forget
those large nuclear fireballs do nasty things to weather patterns. *And*
that Europes oil supplies would be devastated as a result.

However I forgot that the US hasn't exactly had any major land wars
internally in the last hundred years, nor has it suffered the kind of
terrorism that Europe has had this century. It's really easy to advocate a
limited nuclear war in someone else's backyard.

>A large exchange would be unlikely, since the nuking would be one sided.
>The most any mideastern country would have are a few smuggled out of
>Russia. Probably take out most of Israel, but not much more.

And the US gets hit with a bio/chem weapon or terrorists (lets call them
outraged patriots from the Arab states) borrow a nuke off one of the former
Soviet republics and blow it in a ship in New York or San Francisco harbour
in a suicide attack against those who armed Israel?


>>Ob-Trav - what would happen if a state in the Imperium launched an attack
>>against another and destroyed it against the Imperial Rules of War?
>>Something like the attack with Antimatter at the start of _Reality
>>Dysfunction_ by Hamilton? Would the Imperium red zone the perpetrator or
>>would it get red zoned then nuked and mesoned back to the stone age?
>>
>Most likely blockaded first in an attempt to extract reparations, then
>invaded when the nation refused. Refer to the Ilelesh revolt section in
>whatever canonical text you choose for a reference to the kind of force it
>would likely bring to bear.

Quite possibly - it depends on whether they still have any weapons of MD.

Dom

*Apologies for wasting the bandwidth*

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 14:23:35 -0800
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1119

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 09:26:30 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Antimatter and jump drives.

I am planing out a MT campaign based away from the Imperium. The main
campaign area will be between 2 large states, one of which uses antimater
drives primarily.

Question concerning the drives.

Antimatter power plants have fuel that lasts one year. If, by definition, a
jump drive is basically a type of power plant, does it's jump fuel last for
the equivalent of one year of use or would it need refueled after a number
of hexes equal to it's jump number just like a fusion based plant.

If it lasts for a year, this would basically mean that antimatter jump fuel
allows for 52 jumps at maximum range before the need to refuel, so a jump 2
antimatter drive could move 104 hexes in one year without refueling.

Comments, even from the peanut gallery, will be appreciated.

- ------------------------------
     It was always my opinion that the jump drive consumed the hydrogen and
turned it into energy to power the jump field, that the emitters on the out
side of the ship produced.  Because the energy requirements were so huge it
was not possible to produce a fusion power plant that could produce that
amount of power that did not displace more space than the jump drive
system.  On the other hand you can produce significantly more power with an
anti-matter power plant.  This lead to replacing the drive portion that
converted fuel to power with a large anti-matter power plant, and
conversely an improvement in cargo capacity due to the available space that
was once fuel.  If you determine the amount of energy a fusion power plant
would create with the required fuel for a single jump (remember that was
all the fuel in one great burst of energy, not over a years time frame),
and then multiply it by the total number of jumps possible by the ship you
will have the power requirements for your anti-matter power plant.  If you
hate large amounts of math, just hand wave it.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 23:29:20 GMT
From: jzeitlin@cyburban.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Kurishdam/Arts and Entertainment: Beam Dancing

Beam dancing started out as a techno-fad in colleges on Terra.
It rapidly spread throughout the Solomani Rim and the Domain of
Sol, and from there into the rest of the Imperium.  Today, it is
considered a mainstream art form throughout the Imperium, and it
is not unknown outside it.

In beam dancing, the performer stands upon a mirrored stage
floor, with a set of low-power lasers and sensors in an overhead
unit.  The lasers, which may use frequencies in the near
infrared, visible, or near ultraviolet, form a network of beams
that the performer will interrupt in the course of the
performance.  Breaking a beam causes the sensor to send a signal
to a connected audiosynthesizer's computer, which acts on its
program to generate an audible response.

Beam dance stages are available in a wide range of sizes and
configurations.  For the occasional home-use dilettante, a basic
stage is square, 1.5m on a side, with a combined overhead beam
projector/sensor array, and programming console.  Any number of
this type of unit can be linked together to form larger units
(for multiple simultaneous dancers), for use at (for example)
parties or where the unit cannot be left set up permanently.  A
multiple-unit array can be programmed from a single console, or
each unit can be programmed individually from its own console.
Nightclubs and dance-halls, or other locations where the stage
can be left standing permanently, can generally obtain custom-
designed units, usually with a bank of vertically mounted sensors
around half the unit and a custom console.  These custom units
are generally programmable to allow variation of the projector
frequencies and to permit differing responses from sensors when
different frequencies (or none at all) are detected.

Some beam dancers will wear mirrored or partially-mirrored
clothing, ranging from just mirrored gloves all the way to
full-body coverage.  Often, the projectors will be configured to
use visible light, allowing the performer to couple a light show
with sound.

Most professional beam dancers program the stage themselves or
hire beam console programming specialists to do it to their
specifications, often with highly customized programs.  There is,
however, a wide range of preprogrammed console packages for
dancers without the skill to do their own stage programming, or
the money to hire a professional.

By far, the majority of professional beam dancers are solo
performers.  Most multiple-dancer performances are "complementary
solos", where each performer is effectively dancing on a separate
stage, with complementary programs for each performer.  Such
complementary solos have been known to have as many as six
performers.  Much more difficult, technically, but yielding a
richer performance, are the interactive multiples, where both
dancers are dancing on the same stage, with the same program, and
interacting with each other.  Few dancers, even at the
professional level, have the skill to consistently turn out good
performances in this mode, and those that do are guaranteed to
have sellout crowds.

- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 18:25:18 -0500
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Taking The Hit

- -----Original Message-----
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Monday, November 09, 1998 5:21 PM
Subject: [OT] Re: Taking The Hit


>
>So you would feel fine with a nuclear exchange in, say, central America or
>the Caribbean?
>
>However I forgot that the US hasn't exactly had any major land wars
>internally in the last hundred years, nor has it suffered the kind of
>terrorism that Europe has had this century. It's really easy to advocate a
>limited nuclear war in someone else's backyard.
>
>And the US gets hit with a bio/chem weapon or terrorists (lets call them
>outraged patriots from the Arab states) borrow a nuke off one of the former
>Soviet republics and blow it in a ship in New York or San Francisco harbour
>in a suicide attack against those who armed Israel?
>
>Dom
>
>*Apologies for wasting the bandwidth*
>
YO, DOM! Have you been watching some more of those FBI training films?  Gee,
I guess the way your looking at it we Americans were responsible for the
Indians and the Pakistani's getting nukes too.  Hey lighten up man, it was
meant as a joke the way I read it.  Dangerous Dave Golden even came back in
with a comment that it was tongue in cheek to start with.  Nobody I know of
advocates nukes.  The whole world would be a much better place without from
my perspective.  We love ya buddy and you don't have to get your hackles up,
I promise.
Thom

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:30:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com>
Subject: Grav tanks

From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Grav Tanks

[much interesting design discussion deleted]
So you will see a TL14 port-and-starboard ball turret main armament
rectangular tank alongside a TL13 turret-on-top ovoid tank along with
a TL15 fast-attack forward fixed main weapon tank even within a single
organization.

That said, the turret-on-top tank will benefit from heavy cover, the
fast-attack tank will dominate the far-view battlefield, and the
side-ball-turret tank will do medium well in both arenas.

************************
"Single organization" has to be battalion level or above.

I expect the side-ball-turret tank would be especially good in urban
situations.  In the urban context, a bottom turret might also be
helpful, because even if you're not very high in a city, there may
still be targets below.  

Striker allows multiple turrets in vehicle design.  I don't recall
whether The Adjutant's tank designs included any with
side-ball-turrets, but if anyone has these readily available, it would
be worth checking.  

- --Glenn
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 18:45:40 -0500
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1103

- -----Original Message-----
From: dberry@hooked.net <dberry@hooked.net>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Friday, November 06, 1998 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1103


>>(Too many years as a 19E (M-60 Patton Tanker) are showing...
>
>11B, Warsaw Pact Ammo Collection Specialist.
>
> Douglas E. Berry


Doug, in my day the 11B (Bush or Bang-Bang, your choice) was described as "A
non-electric pop-up target."

Thom

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 18:51:38 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: Antimatter and jump drives. 

At 02:54 PM 11/9/98 -0500, you wrote:
>At 01:38 PM 11/9/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>> I am planing out a MT campaign based away from the Imperium. The main
>>> campaign area will be between 2 large states, one of which uses antimater
>>> drives primarily.
>>> 
>>> Question concerning the drives.
>>> 
>>> Antimatter power plants have fuel that lasts one year. If, by
definition, a
>>> jump drive is basically a type of power plant, does it's jump fuel last
for
>>> the equivalent of one year of use or would it need refueled after a number
>>> of hexes equal to it's jump number just like a fusion based plant.
>>
>>Lemme check on that.  *Methinks* it's 1 year at *idle*, not at full output.
>>
>>Keven
>
>Nope.  The consumption is for full output.
>
This part I knew, in fact, it states *for power plants* that the fuel will
last longer at lower outputs.

Now, what about the jumps? :)

I note from the table of jump fuels that the ratio of fuel to jumps gets
significantly lower above TL16, just when antimatter fuel becomes standard.
This, to me, infers that the fuel is antimatter and not hydrogen.
Therefore, if it is antimatter, what's the duration?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 18:48:15 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: Antimatter and jump drives. 

At 01:38 PM 11/9/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> I am planing out a MT campaign based away from the Imperium. The main
>> campaign area will be between 2 large states, one of which uses antimater
>> drives primarily.
>> 
>> Question concerning the drives.
>> 
>> Antimatter power plants have fuel that lasts one year. If, by definition, a
>> jump drive is basically a type of power plant, does it's jump fuel last for
>> the equivalent of one year of use or would it need refueled after a number
>> of hexes equal to it's jump number just like a fusion based plant.
>
>Lemme check on that.  *Methinks* it's 1 year at *idle*, not at full output.
>
Sorry if that makes no sense, could you define "idle" as far as jump drives
go. My understanding of jump drive operations is that it is either idle, or
initiating a jump, there is no other setting. A jump drive's fuel at idle,
be it antimatter, hydrogen, or duck feathers will last for infinity.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 12:45:23 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Off-Topic] Re: Taking The Hit

At 09:17 9/11/98 -0500, Imaginactra wrote:

>>Israel nukes Baghdad, and then the rest of the middle east goes up in
>>flames. And all that fallout is quite close to Europe and on the edge of
>>the Med. At the same time the US looses oil from the Gulf when the various
>>nations around there are swept up in it.... follow the logic?
>
>A small nuclear exchange (half dozzen missiles) would not affect Europe
>much, since the fallout would mostly drift east.
>
>A large exchange would be unlikely, since the nuking would be one sided.
>The most any mideastern country would have are a few smuggled out of
>Russia. Probably take out most of Israel, but not much more.

The fall-out would go towards Pakistan, India and China, all of whom
possess nukes. This means that the 'small' muclear echange becomes a rather
bigger one. BTW volcanic dust from eruptions circles the entire globe in a
matter of days, so the fall-out will, too. The Middle East is on about the
same latitude as the southern US, so expect some increase in background
contamination in your country, too. Remember the effect Chenobyl (sp?) had
od Western Europe?

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:55:34 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: QSDS - Annililik Class-class Subsidized Liner

Annililik Class-class Subsidized Liner
Designed by

This starship was designed using the rules in the Quick Starship Design
System v1.5

UNIVERSAL SHIP DESCRIPTION

Tons 600            Volume 8400                   Cost in MCr 176.467
Crew: 12            High/Middle Passengers: 20/0
                    Low Passengers: 20
Cargo: 116 Std      Controls: Std                 TL: 12
8 Size
1x min. hanger (Pinnance)
3 Jump Drive
1 Maneuver Drive (Thruster, 154 MW)
1 Power Plant
182.7 Fuel Rating/Scoops
A1 P3 J0 Sensors
10 Armour, 12 Structure
Crew Detail:
Captain, 2 Engineers, 1 Electronic Technician, 2 Maneuver Crewmembers, 5
Stewards, 1 Medic

DESIGN SPREADSHEET

Item                              Volume     Power      Area      Cost
Crew
HULL
Cylinder S 600                               164.0      25.7

DRIVES
Jump drive (3 parsecs)              24.0               100.8     112.0
0.8
Jump fuel for 3 parsecs            180.0

Thruster drive (1G)                 11.0     154.0      38.5      31.0
0.4
Power plants: 500MW x 1             17.9                50.0     500.0
0.6
Power plant fuel (1 year)            2.7

ELECTRONICS
Standard Civilian Controls           1.7       1.3       9.2       0.3

Basic Sensors                        0.3      11.1       6.8      12.4
0.4
Basic Communications                           1.3       0.2      11.0
0.4
AUXILIARY CRAFT
CREW
Captain

2 Maneuver Crewmembers

2 Engineers

1 Electronic Technician

5 Stewards

1 Medic

WORKSPACE
6x Workstations                      3.0

Cargo Hold                         116.2

ACCOMODATIONS
11x Small Staterooms                22.0       0.0       0.4

21x Large Staterooms                84.0       0.0       2.1

1x Suites                            8.0       0.0       0.3

20x Low Berths                      20.0       0.0       1.0

TOTALS
                                   570.8     331.7     235.3     775.7
12.0


The Annililik is a subsidised liner of the type supported by the Imperium
for operations between Vland and Sylea, and within the Core Imperial
worlds.  This design is compliant with QSDS 1.5 and replaces the design on
page 36 of Starships by IG.


(Designed with QSDS: Traveller's Quick Starship Design Software. Copyright
Robert Prior, 1998)

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:57:35 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: QSDS - Sirka Class-class Provincial Escort

Sirka Class-class Provincial Escort
Designed by Dominic Mooney

This starship was designed using the rules in the Quick Starship Design
System v1.5

UNIVERSAL SHIP DESCRIPTION

Tons 500            Volume 7000                   Cost in MCr 367.595
Crew: 30            High/Middle Passengers: 0/0
                    Low Passengers: 0
Cargo: 11 Std       Controls: Fib (Bridge)        TL: 12
8 Size
2x Missile Barbette
2x Laser Battery: (+4) 1/3-3-2-0
1x min. hanger (Ships Boat)
1x min. hanger (GCarrier)
3 Jump Drive
4 Maneuver Drive (Thruster, 504 MW)
4 Power Plant
155.7 Fuel Rating/Scoops/Refining(24.0)
8 Sandcasters (240 cans)
A10 P4 J10 Sensors
20 Armour, 16 Structure
Crew Detail:
Captain, 2 Officers, 3 Engineers, 2 Electronic Technicians, 2 Maneuver
Crewmembers, 10 Gunners, Detachment of Marines (8), 2 Stewards

DESIGN SPREADSHEET

Item                              Volume     Power      Area      Cost
Crew
HULL
Slab S 500                                   136.2      21.9

DRIVES
Jump drive (3 parsecs)              20.0                84.0      93.3
0.7
Jump fuel for 3 parsecs            150.0

Thruster drive (4G)                 36.0     504.0     126.0     101.0
1.2
Power plants: 1000MW x 1, 50MW      37.5               105.0    1050.0
1.3
Power plant fuel (1 year)            5.7

Fuel purification (24.0 hours)      24.0       5.0       0.1

ELECTRONICS
Standard Military Controls           3.4       2.5      18.2       0.3

Small Military Sensors               1.2      85.2      62.5      44.6
0.8
Advanced Communications                       21.5       2.0     203.0
0.8
WEAPONS
2x Missile Barbette                 12.0       0.4       0.2      40.0

2x Laser Battery: (+4) 1/3-3-2      28.6     272.8      63.2      84.2
2.0
8x Sandcaster Turret (30 cans)      24.0       8.0       6.4      80.0
8.0
AUXILIARY CRAFT
1x GCarrier

1x spacious hanger                  40.0                 0.2      49.0

1x GCarrier

1x spacious hanger                  40.0                 0.2      49.0

1x GCarrier

1x spacious hanger                  40.0                 0.2      49.0

1x GCarrier

1x spacious hanger                  40.0                 0.2      49.0

1x GCarrier

1x spacious hanger                  40.0                 0.2      49.0

1x GCarrier

1x spacious hanger                  40.0                 0.2      49.0

1x GCarrier

1x spacious hanger                  40.0                 0.2      49.0

1x GCarrier

1x spacious hanger                  40.0                 0.2      49.0

1x GCarrier

1x spacious hanger                  40.0                 0.2      49.0

1x GCarrier

1x spacious hanger                  40.0                 0.2      49.0

AUXILIARY VEHICLES
CREW
Captain, 2 Officers

2 Maneuver Crewmembers

3 Engineers

2 Electronic Technicians

10 Gunners

Detachment of Marines (8)

2 Stewards

WORKSPACE
20x Workstations                    10.0                 0.0

Bridge (17 workstations)             8.5

Cargo Hold                          11.4

ACCOMODATIONS
9x Bunks                             9.0                 0.0

2x Small Staterooms                  4.0       0.0       0.1

1x Large Stateroom                   4.0       0.0       0.1

TOTALS
                                   469.3    1035.6     490.1    1830.4
30.0

Larger than the design on IG's Starshipsbook 2, on page 40, the 500dT Slab
was the smallest hull that this weapons fit could be slipped into easily.
Designed to QSDS1.5


(Designed with QSDS: Traveller's Quick Starship Design Software. Copyright
Robert Prior, 1998)

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:57:42 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: QSDS - Walsh Class-class Gunned Trader

Walsh Class-class Gunned Trader
Designed by Dominic Mooney

This starship was designed using the rules in the Quick Starship Design
System v1.5

UNIVERSAL SHIP DESCRIPTION

Tons 200            Volume 2800                   Cost in MCr 140.550
Crew: 11            High/Middle Passengers: 7/0
                    Low Passengers: 0
Cargo: 45 Std       Controls: Std                 TL: 12
8 Size
2x Laser Battery: (+4) 1/3-2-0-0
2 Jump Drive
2 Maneuver Drive (Thruster, 112 MW)
5 Power Plant
42.7 Fuel Rating/Scoops
1 Sandcasters (30 cans)
A2 P3 J0 Sensors
20 Armour, 11 Structure
Crew Detail:
Captain, 1 Engineer, 1 Electronic Technician, 2 Maneuver Crewmembers, 3
Gunners, 2 Stewards, 1 Medic

DESIGN SPREADSHEET

Item                              Volume     Power      Area      Cost
Crew
HULL
Cylinder S 200                                54.5       8.8

DRIVES
Jump drive (2 parsecs)               6.0                25.2      28.0
0.2
Jump fuel for 2 parsecs             40.0

Thruster drive (2G)                  8.0     112.0      28.0      23.0
0.3
Power plants: 500MW x 1             17.9                50.0     500.0
0.6
Power plant fuel (1 year)            2.7

ELECTRONICS
Standard Civilian Controls           1.7       1.3       9.2       0.3

Improved Sensors                     0.3      12.6       7.4      13.0
0.4
Basic Communications                           1.3       0.2      11.0
0.4
WEAPONS
2x Laser Battery: (+4) 1/3-2-0      16.6     112.8      56.8      44.2
2.0
1x Sandcaster Turret (30 cans)       3.0       1.0       0.8      10.0
1.0
CREW
Captain

2 Maneuver Crewmembers

1 Engineer

1 Electronic Technician

3 Gunners

2 Stewards

1 Medic

WORKSPACE
8x Workstations                      4.0

Cargo Hold                          45.6

ACCOMODATIONS
5x Small Staterooms                 10.0       0.0       0.2

8x Large Staterooms                 32.0       0.0       0.8

TOTALS
                                   187.8     295.5     187.4     629.5
11.0

The Walsh Class secure trader travels to those areas where normal merchants
are reluctant to go, and is equiped with superior firepower and defenses.
It is designed to QSDS1.5, and the only change is the replacement of HePLAR
with T-Plates, plus the addition of a sandcaster. The armour is
consequentially lower.


(Designed with QSDS: Traveller's Quick Starship Design Software. Copyright
Robert Prior, 1998)

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1120
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, November 10 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1121



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Beam Dancing
Re: limit on grav plates?
Re: limit on grav plates?
Re: [OT] Re: Taking The Hit
Re: GT and Virus
Incendental effects of damage
Re: limit on grav plates?
Re : Smallish vehicle power plants (was Fusion+), longish
Re: Kurishdam/Arts and Entertainment: Beam Dancing
Re: Kurishdam/Arts and Entertainment: Beam Dancing
Re: Fusion power and NTRs
Re: Trav Riot Control (was: Re: Medicine in Traveller 4...)
Re: Trav Riot Control (was: Re: Medicine in Traveller 4...)
Re: GT and Virus (Strephon can't be killed? )
Pyramid and Virus
Re: GT and Virus
Re: Trav Riot Control (was: Re: Medicine in Traveller 4...)
Re: Ship design, sane or otherwise
Re: The Abomination Known As Fusion Plus
Re: Ship design, sane or otherwise
Re: The excellent Medicine In Traveller articles
Re: floorplans of TI & TJ class frontier transport ships
Re: The excellent Medicine In Traveller articles
Re HT Jump Fuels

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 16:17:15 -0800
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Beam Dancing

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 23:29:20 GMT
From: jzeitlin@cyburban.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Kurishdam/Arts and Entertainment: Beam Dancing

*HUGE SNIP*

I would like to say "Bravo" that was a great post, I liked it very much.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 16:20:10 -0800
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@home.com>
Subject: Re: limit on grav plates?

>> Max G compensation is 1G at TL10, rising to 6G at TL15.
>> Most people seem to assume that this G-Comp is the setting that the internal
>> gravity field can be set to.
>> Because it is expensive, max G comp will rarely be greater than the G rating
>> of the ship.
>> If the ship is built to a budget (or tech limits), with decks perpendicular
>> to the axis of thrust, the the G-comp can be 1G less than max thrust.
>> Large military ships would tend to have all the G-Comp possible because
>> when they spin round to thrust in a different direction, the accelerations
>> at the extremities can be very high.
>
>If I understand you correctly, you're talking about the inertial compensation.
>I'm talking about the artificial gravity, which is a different beast.

Not in FF&S2 it isn't. Pg. 80 explicitly states that the same inertial
compensators that counteract the ship's acceleration also provide
artificial gravity. The force that pushed you down on the floor is the same
one that counteracts the ship's acceleration, just in a different direction.

IMTU ships need an extra G of compensation to handle external gravity
forces and ship rotation, so ships with decks perpendicular to the axis of
thrust need compensation up to their maximum thrust, and ships with
parallel decks need 1 more than their max. acceleration. In emergencies you
can fasten down everything that's movable and handle 1 more G. This same
tactic can be used in fighters.

>However, the artificial gravity settings are used primary to facilitate
>loading/unloading of heavy cargo and to accommodate passengers requiring
>special
>environments.

And it is also used to counteract ship acceleration. Yes, I know that some
referees state that inertial compensators only dampen ship acceleration and
cannot provide artificial gravity, but there is no separate step or
components in ship design for providing artificial gravity, so this is not
supported by the rules. Moreover if, as has been done in some campaigns,
you can vary artificial gravity arbitrarily then why don't naval architects
just encase rooms in these magic zero-cost zero-power gravity generators
and let ships accelerate at 10 Gs?

- --
IMTU t4+ ru ge+ !3i(3i++) jt-- au+ ls- 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 20:20:22 -0800
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: limit on grav plates?

>
> IMTU ships need an extra G of compensation to handle external gravity
> forces and ship rotation, so ships with decks perpendicular to the axis of
> thrust need compensation up to their maximum thrust, and ships with
> parallel decks need 1 more than their max. acceleration. In emergencies you
> can fasten down everything that's movable and handle 1 more G. This same
> tactic can be used in fighters.

Maybe this doesn't apply in space, but don't current fighter craft routinely pull 4
to 7 G's more than is compensated (i.e. no compensation).  Without air  to push
against, I don't see how you could pull more G's than your maximum thrust.  You may
also be referring to added G's without hampering piloting skills, or perhaps
extended use of extra G's.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 20:38:21 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Taking The Hit

At 09:13 PM 11/9/98 +0000, you wrote:
>Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net> wrote:
>
>>A small nuclear exchange (half dozzen missiles) would not affect Europe
>>much, since the fallout would mostly drift east.
>
>So you would feel fine with a nuclear exchange in, say, central America or
>the Caribbean?

It was a reference to the Gulf War.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 20:47:07 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: GT and Virus

> There is, however, something to prevent me from writing about it. The license
> between SJ Games and Far Future specifically forbids virus as a plot element.
> Also, we can't have an Imperium-wide rebellion, and Strephon stays alive.

Strephon can't be killed?  I just thought there no Imperium wide rebellions
caused by any assassinations.  Strephon just gained "canonical" (or rather
contractual) invulnerability. Wonder if he knows...  ; )  


Gary

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 20:46:59 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Incendental effects of damage

Does anyone have any ideas on some sort of blow-through rule? Especially for
TNE/T2k rules...  

Isn't there a much larger chance of infection, etc if the bullet is stuck in
the body?  It would certainly necessitate surgery for removal... also in this
same vein, aren't exit wounds much more severe or should this be considered as
part of hte total damage?  Maybe less damage if theres no exit wound?

I am not proposing increasing damage beyond that of what a weapon does, but am
thinking of a player's question "what happened to the bullet?" and not having
a (non ad-hoc) answer... 

This is more of a question of incidental effects of damage... broken bones,
etc for melee (i'm just converting over the house system i use for ad&d, so
far), but what about other weapons?  Gauss weapons?  I'm envisioning a doctor
picking these things out like cactus needles <g>or a guy that looks like an
overgrown thimble...  Also what about plasma/fusion weapons?  Some pretty
severe burns, assuming the victim isn't completely destroyed (like wounds from
such while wearing combat armor or battle dress).


Gary

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 18:53:59 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@shell.rt66.com>
Subject: Re: limit on grav plates?

 
>>IMTU ships need an extra G of compensation to handle external gravity
>>forces and ship rotation, so ships with decks perpendicular to the axis of
>>thrust need compensation up to their maximum thrust, and ships with
>>parallel decks need 1 more than their max. acceleration. In emergencies you
>>can fasten down everything that's movable and handle 1 more G. This same
>>tactic can be used in fighters.
> 
> Maybe this doesn't apply in space, but don't current fighter 
> craft routinely pull 4 to 7 G's more than is compensated 

What is the duration of this g-loading? 5 seconds? I would assume
that a traveller ship could do the same, with similar results, but
again, only for a few seconds (more with less loading, obviously).
traveller space combat turns have gone from 20 to 100 minutes a
turn, a rather long time to be at 6gs :-)

> (i.e. no compensation).  Without air  to push against, I don't 
> see how you could pull more G's than your maximum thrust.  You may
> also be referring to added G's without hampering piloting skills, or 
> perhaps extended use of extra G's.

He mentions rotation, above. It's really easy to get accelerations 
that are quite high due to rotation of the hull. That's where a ton
of other loading could apply.

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 12:52:53 +1100
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re : Smallish vehicle power plants (was Fusion+), longish

Steve Hudson wrote :-

>   I've got stats for a fuel cell scrawled in on my Striker charts, copied
> from B:8, presumably:
>
>  TL  Description        Output  Weight/m^3      Price   Fuel
>   8  MHD turbine         0.60     1000 kg       KCr 10   300
>   9  Fuel Cell           0.80     1600 kg       KCr 20    30
>   9  Fusion              2.00     4000 kg       KCr 200    1.5
>
>  I suspect that the fuel consumption may be gimped, though (?).
>
Quite possible.
What are the units of that fuel consumption figure? kL per hour per m3
plant? (don't have Striker, assume it's like MT design system)
What fuel does it burn? Hydrogen, petroleum distillates or alcohol?
Is LOX included in the fuel figure?

30kL fuel gets 0.8MW-hour usable power.
Candidate fuels :-
Diesel or gasoline : 36MJ/L
Ethanol : 21.3 MJ/L
LH2 : 0.84 MJ/L
LHCryo (LOX/LH2) : as per LH2. Multiply volume by 1.5 (more, to
represent separate tanks?).

0.8MW-hour equals (8 X 10^5 X 3600) or 2.88 X 10^9 J

Required fuel volume at 100% efficiency, L :-
Diesel/gasoline : 80L
Ethanol : 135.2
LH2 : 3428.8
LHCryo : 5143.2

The H2 / O2 fuel cells used in the US space program had an overall
efficiency of 58%.
By TL 9, 70-75% efficiency should be attainable for this cell. I assume
the necessary catalysts to burn hydrocarbons are a TL 9
development.

If we assume 75% efficiency, we need to increase fuel volumes
by a factor of 100/75, which leaves us in the worst case scenario
(LOX/LH2) with a required volume of 6857.6L - less than a quarter
of the listed figure.

For gasoline it gets ridiculous - 106.67 L - a factor of 281!

Bruce, try these :-
TL Power Density Price Min Size  Fuel Rate (m3/MW/h) ; eta
6  0.1   1       0.02  0.01      7.4 LH2, 3.6 LOX ;  0.58
7  0.4   1       0.02  0.003     6.1 LH2, 3.05 LOX ; 0.7
8  0.75  1       0.02  0.003     5.7, 2.85 ; 0.75
9  1.0   1       0.02  0.003     5, 2.5 ; 0.85
                                 0.2  for HGHCD ; 0.5
14 1.5   1       0.02  0.003     0.13 for HGHCD ; 0.66
16 1.75  1       0.02  0.003     0.11 for HGHCD ; 0.9

Power MW/m3, density t/m3, Price MCr/m3, minimum size m3,
eta fuel -> power efficiency.
Assume TL 14+ cells are 90% efficient at oxidising hydrogen.
4.762 m3/MW/hour, or 7.143 m3 LOX/LH2/MW-hour.

****Plea for assistance follows****
Has anyone got copies of the vehicle design stuff published by
'The Adjutant' - I'm curious to see whether or not they did some
reality checking.

Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gearhead, Gaming Enthusiast

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 21:29:18 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Kurishdam/Arts and Entertainment: Beam Dancing

>Beam dancing started out as a techno-fad in colleges on Terra.
>It rapidly spread throughout the Solomani Rim and the Domain of
>Sol, and from there into the rest of the Imperium.  Today, it is
>considered a mainstream art form throughout the Imperium, and it
>is not unknown outside it.


Woohoo...  Killer post Jeff!

Now how about some "beam dancing" artists, and where can I find a recording
:-)

Chris Seamans ( semo@pil.net )

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 22:11:23 -0800
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Kurishdam/Arts and Entertainment: Beam Dancing

Chris Seamans wrote:

> >Beam dancing started out as a techno-fad in colleges on Terra.
> >It rapidly spread throughout the Solomani Rim and the Domain of
> >Sol, and from there into the rest of the Imperium.  Today, it is
> >considered a mainstream art form throughout the Imperium, and it
> >is not unknown outside it.
>
> Woohoo...  Killer post Jeff!
>
> Now how about some "beam dancing" artists, and where can I find a recording
> :-)

I think I saw something like this on a PBS Scientific American Frontiers this
past season.  They had a whole bunch of interactive instruments.  One was a
field that sensed where you put your hand and made a corresponding noise.
There was another that used a baton in a similar fashion.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 18:25:10 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Fusion power and NTRs

In mail you write:

> Well, now that you've hooked us, how do they build this reactor?

Read the article. Then if you are so inclined, you should be able to
build a "demonstrator" model for a few hundred bucks.

The principle is "electrostatic inertial confinement". You have a set
of "spherical" grids, inside a vacuum tube type setup. The ions
(Hydrogen, Deuterium, or even exotics like Boron-11) get accelerated
towards the center. There they either hit head on and fuse, or miss and
get slowed down as they climb against the potential gradient. They then
come to a stop and accelerate back in towards the center for another
pass. 

Even more interesting, it should be possible to extract the power
generated *directly* as electricity! 90-95% efficiencies may be
possible. 

And these *won't* go "boom". 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 18:35:32 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Trav Riot Control (was: Re: Medicine in Traveller 4...)

In mail you write:

>         Reminds me of an FSA solution to riots that I cooked up a while
> back.  Hope nobody minds the repost...  Civil rights?  Shmivil rights!
>
>>
>>FSA OKA-SQ riot termination system
>>
>>
>>News Item, Imperial Defense Weekly 04-193
>>
>>Dateline: Sylea, Famille Spofulam Orbital HQ
>>
>>Title: Famille Spofulam Armaments releases new riot termination weapon
>>
>>
>>       "Yesterday, FSA launched their new OKA-SQ riot termination system,
>>a vehicle-mounted rotary 5-barrel 18X62E ETC VRF shotgun.  Leem Ladjen,
>>our police and paramilitary equipment editor, attended the launch, on
>>board the Famille Spofulam Group's Orbital HQ:

Gee, great minds think alike. Saturday I was gun shopping with a friend
(I need a hunting rifle). We got to joking about nasty weapons systems
and came up with a quite similar weapon. 

Ours was a low speed mini-gun/gatling firing 4-gauge (yes *four*)
shotgun shells thru barrels optimized for maximum dispersal. We picked
4-guage because there were riot guns produced in that gauge in the
early part of the century. So this was an "obvious" upgrade. 

I say "low speed" because when you are firing shotgun shells anyway,
there's no *point* in firing hundreds a minute. 

BTW, we called ours the "street sweeper". And then we decided to offer
a model based on an upgraded street sweeper chassis, so it'll clear a
path thru the gore as it goes. (BTW, you *were* aware that those
brushes on street sweepers have *steel* bristles, weren't you? :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 18:43:24 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Trav Riot Control (was: Re: Medicine in Traveller 4...)

In mail you write:

> At 09:14 AM 11/7/98 -0600, you wrote:
>
>>> I think you'd want to be working for someone who didn't into civil rights
>>> much before you used this one. If someone with already low BP or a weak
>>> heart got hit they could die, and not everyone in a riot is always a
>>>rioter.
>
>>I think that there's a limit on *how* far it can lower the pressure.
>>But frankly, the hazard is no worse than that of tear gas and a *lot*
>>better than firehoses or "rubber bullets".
>
> Umm.. I have a rest BP of 90/60 most days.  (I'm just waiting for the
> mothership to come and get me.)  An agent that would lower a normal human's
> BP to the point of dizziness would drop me dead in my tracks.  The
> condition is called posteral hypertension.  A lot of people have it to some
> degree.

Don't you mean *hypo*tension?

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 19:51:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Roberto Camino <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: GT and Virus (Strephon can't be killed? )

- ---TravelrTNE@aol.com wrote:
> Strephon can't be killed?  I just thought there no Imperium wide
rebellions caused by any ssassinations.  Strephon just gained
"canonical" (or rather contractual) invulnerability. Wonder if he
knows...  
>

He's GURPS-proof!  Other than that he's as vulnerable as any other
Emperor.
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 22:55:16 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Pyramid and Virus

Michael D. Peters asked:

>Loren,
>Does this imply that Pyramid WOULD NOT be interested in publishing articles
>set in the Virus universe? (Personally I liked some elements of TNE, others
>I was luke warm or cold too, I'm only asking to clarify the subject).

I think Marc would have to decide if that violated the license agreement. In
the past, he has indicated that he has no problem with articles appearing in
Pyramid which cover all versions of Traveller, but I don't think he has
addressed this question specifically. As far as I know, no one has submitted
an article like that, so the matter hasn't come up yet. 

We'll deal with it when it does...

Anders Backman said:
>Please let us at least break the laws of conservation of momentum and
>conservation of energy - it wouldn't be Traveller unless we did ;-)

OK. You can break the law of gravity too, if you like. Do the laws of cartoon
physics apply IYTU? (every other reaction has an equal and opposite reaction,
etc.)

Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:03:47 +1100 (EST)
From: DAVID CALLUM Moodie <dcm06@uow.edu.au>
Subject: Re: GT and Virus

> Strephon can't be killed?  I just thought there no Imperium wide rebellions
> caused by any assassinations.  Strephon just gained "canonical" (or rather
> contractual) invulnerability. Wonder if he knows...  ; )  

Does that contract include ceromonial doubles?  ^_- 

DaveChan
  http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/kingston/196
  http://rabble.uow.edu.au/~davechan

Traveller IMTU Code:
  tc tm tn+ !t4 tg++ ?tt ?to ru+ ge+ 3i c+ jt- au st+
  ls+ pi+ ta+ he kk- hi+ as va+ dr+ ith+ ?vr ?ne so-
  zh vi ?da ?sy  

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 23:08:12 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: Trav Riot Control (was: Re: Medicine in Traveller 4...)

At 06:35 PM 11/9/98 PST, you wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>         Reminds me of an FSA solution to riots that I cooked up a while
>> back.  Hope nobody minds the repost...  Civil rights?  Shmivil rights!
>>
>>>
>>>FSA OKA-SQ riot termination system
>>>
>>>
>>>News Item, Imperial Defense Weekly 04-193
>>>
>>>Dateline: Sylea, Famille Spofulam Orbital HQ
>>>
>>>Title: Famille Spofulam Armaments releases new riot termination weapon
>>>
>>>
>>>       "Yesterday, FSA launched their new OKA-SQ riot termination system,
>>>a vehicle-mounted rotary 5-barrel 18X62E ETC VRF shotgun.  Leem Ladjen,
>>>our police and paramilitary equipment editor, attended the launch, on
>>>board the Famille Spofulam Group's Orbital HQ:
>
>Gee, great minds think alike. Saturday I was gun shopping with a friend
>(I need a hunting rifle). We got to joking about nasty weapons systems
>and came up with a quite similar weapon. 
>
>Ours was a low speed mini-gun/gatling firing 4-gauge (yes *four*)
>shotgun shells thru barrels optimized for maximum dispersal. We picked
>4-guage because there were riot guns produced in that gauge in the
>early part of the century. So this was an "obvious" upgrade. 
>
>I say "low speed" because when you are firing shotgun shells anyway,
>there's no *point* in firing hundreds a minute. 
>
>BTW, we called ours the "street sweeper". And then we decided to offer
>a model based on an upgraded street sweeper chassis, so it'll clear a
>path thru the gore as it goes. (BTW, you *were* aware that those
>brushes on street sweepers have *steel* bristles, weren't you? :-)

Ok, I'll one up you :)

Small, semi-automatic launcher similar to a tear gas shooter, but longer
range and loaded with cluster bombs. Iraqi's hated our cluster bombs, and
I'd imagine your local rioters would think twice about reassembling after a
small dose of these.

I know, evil, but then again, a good GM has to think about both sides of
the coin.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 20:50:04 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Ship design, sane or otherwise

In mail you write:

> Ian or Katts writes:
>
>>10 megawatts of power costs a megacredit, and a megacredit turns into Cr
>>4000 a month, every month for 40 years ...

Excuse me? Watts (and megawatts) are a *rate of flow*, not an amount.
Energy is measured either in Joules, or in units of power*time such as
kilowatt-hours or megawatt-hours.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:13:28
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: The Abomination Known As Fusion Plus

>From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
>Subject: Re: Fusion+
>
>Actually, IIRC, there are only a few members of the list who really seem
>to object to it. And since we now need carbon dating of the ashes to
>determine when _that_ little discussion occured, I don't remember their
reasoning.
>
>>From the viewpoint of someone trying to design small craft for the 57th
>century, I found that Fusion+ fit very well, I like it, and use it
>enthusiastically, and often. And look: no hair on my palms!
>
>Seriously, without Fusion+ we're left with, essentially, incremental
>advances on TL-7 powerplants for small vehicles, which is dumb, IMO.
>
>It fits for a high-tech power source. Go ahead, call it a Advanced Fuel
>Cell if you want, call it whatever, but it fits a very large hole in the
>conceptual landscape for Traveller, between full scale fusion reactors
>and, essentially, the V-8; a small, high output energy source for high
>tech equipment.

The problem I have with Fusion Plus is that it out-competes fusion for many
to most applications, because it is cheaper for the same power output.

As an example, assume a 200 dton Far Trader with a 150 MW power plant.
Using Fusion, it's 75 m3 of power plant at TL12, costing MCr 15 (scale
efficiencies at TL13 and up will cut these numbers a little). On the plus
side, it needs about 2 m3 of fuel per month.

Now, using The Abomination Known As Fusion Plus, it's 35 m3 of power plant
at TL12, costing MCr 0.35. On the minus side, it uses 0.0525 m3 of fuel per
hour, or 1.1 m3 per day. The fuel costs Cr 350 per m3.

Now, under standard financing, taking the fusion plant (MCr 15) at standard
financing turns into KCr 60 per month, or call it KCr 55 more than going
with TAKAFP.

KCr 55 buys about 150 m3 of deuterium fuel, which is much more than the 35
m3 or so that the TAKAFP plant will need per month.

Therefore, by going with TAKAFP you save about KCr 40 a month on the
payments on a Far Trader.

The problem isnt the use of TAKAFP in small vehicles - yes, we do need
something better than turbocharged straight-eights for grav bikes - but
it's use in big ones.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 22:20:04 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Ship design, sane or otherwise

At 08:50 pm 11/9/98 PST, you wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>> Ian or Katts writes:
>>
>>>10 megawatts of power costs a megacredit, and a megacredit turns
into Cr
>>>4000 a month, every month for 40 years ...
>
>Excuse me? Watts (and megawatts) are a *rate of flow*, not an
amount.
>Energy is measured either in Joules, or in units of power*time such
as
>kilowatt-hours or megawatt-hours.

	I think the point he was trying to make is "10 megawatts of power
<<PLANT CAPACITY>> costs a megacredit ..." -- so merchant ships
wouldn't buy one erg more capacity than necessary. *Certainly* not
enough to run every single system on the ship at full output
simultaneously ...
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:47:28 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: The excellent Medicine In Traveller articles

Dear Folks -

As one who has looked on in awe of the breadth and depth of Robert
O'Connor's medical articles (and cut them all for off-line perusal and
use!), may I say a hearty "Well Done"!
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 01:55:43 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re: floorplans of TI & TJ class frontier transport ships

"Leif O. Pihl" <pihlx001@tc.umn.edu> asks:

>Page 80 of GURPS Traveller mentions the TI and TJ class frontier transports.
>
>Does anyone out there know of floorplans (and/or stats) that exist for one
>of both of these classes of ships?
>
>Tanks,      LP
>

Classic Trav stats are in the Traveller Adventure
MegaTrav stats are in the Rebellion Sourcebook
TNE stats are in the World Tamer's Handbook.

Deckplans based on the MT version are on my harddrive...

 Despite the kind words of Mr. Letterworks, I don't consider them quite ready
for primetime. If I did (and when I do) they would be on my website.  They ARE
high on my list, but at the moment plans for a variant Type C and a Corvette
I found at someone else's site are higher.  The Hammerhead Patrol Cruiser went
up last week...

Cheers,

GypsyComet
http://members.aol.com/gypsycomet/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 20:56:17 +1300
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: Re: The excellent Medicine In Traveller articles

>As one who has looked on in awe of the breadth and depth of Robert
>O'Connor's medical articles (and cut them all for off-line perusal
and
>use!), may I say a hearty "Well Done"!


Yeah,  let me add my thanks as well, they will be most useful.

Frankie

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:27:21 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re HT Jump Fuels

MT makes it abundantly clear that all jump fuel is Hydrogen, and is per
jump. The ratio of fuel size to drive size decreases each TL above 16, to a
low at (IIRC) TL22

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:aramis@gci.net> Note: All other E-mail addresses for me expire by
the end of november 1998!
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
UTUP 0309 6-7779577-5-5-2
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1121
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, November 10 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1122



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: aircraft losses (Back on Topic)
Re: Low, fast and LOUD (off-topic)
Re: Fusion power and NTRs
RE:  The Excellent Medicine In Traveller articles
Re: The Abomination Known As Fusion Plus
Re: [OT] Re: Taking The Hit
Re: Imperial Spies
The Lost Files
Re: The Lost Files
Re: GT and Virus (Strephon can't be killed?)
Re: GT and Virus (Strephon can't be killed?)
Semper Fidelis
VH was Re: The Lost Files
Re: Pyramid and Virus
Riot Control Systems
Power/propulsion multidrive; was Fusion power and NTRs
Re: aircraft losses (Back on Topic)
Grav AFVs (was Re: aircraft losses (Back on Topic))
re: Jump Range Limits By TL
Traveller Webring
Re: Low, fast and LOUD (off-topic)
Re : Smallish vehicle power plants
Re: The Abomination Known As Fusion Plus

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 21:05:57 +1200
From: rfields@actrix.gen.nz (Richard Fields)
Subject: Re: aircraft losses (Back on Topic)

In TML  1107 "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu> wrote:

>>>>I don't think even A-10's...[snip]
>>Hmm. This brings to my mind once again the question of ground attack
>>aircraft in the Traveller setting (i.e., those pesky grav tanks). I am
>>surprised that none of the grav tanks I have ever seen depicted have pop-up
>>weapon systems. I would think that a logical addition to a grav tank would
>>be an extendable tower for sensors and/or weapons systems.
>
>Like the sensor "dome" on the AH64D Attack Helo or the newest Kiowa scout
>Helo?  It doesn't >have to be very big.  Maybe just an emitter/receiver on
>a mast.

Just a wild idea to augment the sensor "dome", Why not have a few grav
powered detachable sensor domes, give them a target designator and tight
beam maser link to the gun ships weapons crewperson. They can then
illuminate targets, launch missiles and call down fire missions. The pilot
in this time keeps the gun ships suvivability up by terrain following and
active evasion. The only (intentially) exposed element are the targeting
drones.

The existance of secondary or anti personnel weapon for 'soft targets'
(like ditched vehicle crew) isn't an issue. This is for those targets of
conveniance that arn't worth using main (guided munutions) armerment for.

The principle of suvivability is for a vehicle like this not armour or
speed/evasion but not being located.

Any counter ideas are welcome.

Richard Fields
New Zealand, a small group of islands southwest of California
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow7510.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:14:34 +0800
From: Michael Bailey <mickb@iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: Low, fast and LOUD (off-topic)

>The RAF Tornados flew very low and very fast when using the JP233 to take
>out runways. Shame that the government (at the time) had discounted
>building a standoff version as not cost effective.

>Just because the USAF/USN/US Marines weren't doing it doesn't mean that it
>wasn't being done.

>You don't really get to understand low and fast until you see a Tornado go
>down a valley below you.


I was privileged to see something similar last year when I was still in air
traffic control.  Got to go up to Amberley and watch the F-111's strut
their stuff.  There's talk now of re-engining them with F110's and keeping
them 'till 2020.

I can't believe that the US got rid of theirs (more spares for us tho').




Mick Bailey
mickb@iinet.net.au
solomani.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 07:12:19 -0500
From: "Eric Freitas" <ericfreitas@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Fusion power and NTRs

Check out this web site:  http://www.dasa.com/fusionstar/

    This company in cooperation with the University of Illinois
are using this same method as a point source neutron generator
and are researching Fusion power as well.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 08:29:20 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us>
Subject: RE:  The Excellent Medicine In Traveller articles

>As one who has looked on in awe of the breadth and depth of Robert
>O'Connor's medical articles (and cut them all for off-line perusal
>and use!), may I say a hearty "Well Done"!

I'd like to extend my thanks and admiration as well.  Great job!  I 
am dying to know:  is Robert going to post them (or allow them to be 
posted) at a website when he is done with the series and has 
integrated feedback to his liking?  If so, where will they be?

In Admiration,
Jason

============================
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer I
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375

Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 07:34:27 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: The Abomination Known As Fusion Plus

Ian or Katts wrote:
> 
> The problem isnt the use of TAKAFP in small vehicles - yes, we do need
> something better than turbocharged straight-eights for grav bikes - but
> it's use in big ones.

So basically, the only problem you have with it can be solved by a
simple rules change: that F+ powerplants decrease dramatically in
efficiency above a certain size, say a cubic meter or two, keeping the
maximum power generated by them to some limit, making them ideal for
small vehicles, but not workable for starships. (There's already been
significant discussion of having one large pp vs. littering your
engineering deck with 300 little Honda generators...) At a 2m^3 limit,
at TL-12, a F+ plant will generate 9.6 mw, while a Fusion reactor that
size isn't possible, leving a gap, but that's what drives the research
into reducing fusion plants.

I'd have to look at the stats for them, but the smallest the upper size
limit should be is to power one of those small fighters mentioned in T4
and M0 as Syleas great tactical advantage, explicitly stated as due to
F+ power plants...

This is a rules hack I can live with...

(see, wasn't that easy? ;-)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 12:25:01 -0000
From: "Peter L.S. Trevor" <ptrevor.trisen@zetnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Taking The Hit

Dom wrote:
> If you feel fine about a local nuclear exchange, well, that's
> your problem, but I'm sure the Egyptians, the Italians, Greeks
> and Turks will be somewhat irritated.

Er, shouldn't that be "irradiated"?

(Sorry, couldn't resist!)



Regards PLST
"Rome wasn't burned in a day."

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 13:35:00 -0000
From: "Peter L.S. Trevor" <ptrevor.trisen@zetnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Imperial Spies

N. Eric Phillips wrote:
> Tell me about spy organizations that the Imperial runs. I see in
> G:T p. 99 a reference to spies. I'd like to add some cloak & dagger
> to the game.


First of all there is Imperial Naval Intelligence (INI).  This is
the Imperial Navy's military intelligence department.  Of course,
not everything the INI  does  is  'cloak & dagger'  ...  it  also
collects and coallates low level  intelligence  (publication  and
vid broadcast monitoring), and issues press releases on behalf of
the Imperial Navy.

There have also been one or two  references  the  Imperial  Naval
Counter-Intelligence.  This may be separate to INI or  an  office
within the INI.

Prior to the Fifth Frontier War,  Lord Santanocheev  created  the
INI's rival (and incompetant) Office of Naval Information.

Also be  aware  that  the  'Imperial Navy'  is  composed  of  the
Imperial Navy itself,  and  the  Colonial  Navies  (at  subsector
level).  These colonial navies probably have their  own  military
intelligence departments, as would the military of  every  planet
(planetary navy, COACC, wet navy, and army).

The Imperial Interstellar Scout Service (IISS) as a whole  is  an
information gathering organisation.  But  'cloak & dagger'  stuff
tends to be  carried  out  by  the  Intelligence  Branch  of  the
Detached Duty Office, and the Security Branch of  the  Operations
Office.

The Imperial Ministry of Justice (MoJ)  is  a  sort  of  Imperial
equivelent to the US'  FBI.  In  850  some  of  the  non-military
responsibilities of the INI were transferred to the  MoJ  as  the
'Ministry of Justice  Special  Branch'  (JSB)  ...  although  the
existance of the JSB was not publically achnoleged until 1080.

Every megacorporation has its own intelligence functions  ...  in
some cases left over from the days of the First Imperium when the
Vilani megacorporations (or Bureaus) were part of the government.
(Trivia: the 'Vemene' is the covert  security  agency  of  Tukera
Lines.)

The Bureau of Interstellar Affairs  (BIA),  in  addition  to  its
public functions,  maintains  a  series  of  covert  intelligence
gathering operations.

There  are  also  numerous  planetary   'civilian'   intelligence
organisations   (usually  some  sort  of  local  law  enforcement
department).   They  may  unofficially  operate   outside   their
jurisdiction areas.

Many nobles have spies ... from a few individuals  to  full-blown
organisations.

Finally, there are security firms which may dabble  in  'cloak  &
dagger' on behalf of their client (and for a fee).

Hope that answers your question.



Regards PLST
"Rome wasn't burned in a day."

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:50:34 -0000
From: "Peter L.S. Trevor" <ptrevor.trisen@zetnet.co.uk>
Subject: The Lost Files

Over the years there have been a number of aborted projects:

- - Nobles (Imperium Games for T4)
- - The Regency Ship Guide (GDW for TNE)
- - Armor 21 (GDW for T2K)
- - Manhunt: The Omnesium Quest Vol 1 (DGP for MT)
- - Black Duke (DGP for MT)
- - Marc Miller's Battles of the Rebellion (old DGP staff for MM for MT?)
and others.

Some of these were nearer to  publication  than  others,  and  it
occured to me that some of these products  might  exist  in  some
sort of crude draft form.  Obviously not up to the usual standard
expected for published material ... but still of interest to  the
gaming community.  I know this is a vain hope (I see  a  snowball
in a location populated by beings with pitchforks), but if anyone
is sitting on this material please, please, please could  me  see
it (either here or on a web site)?



Regards PLST
"Rome wasn't burned in a day."

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 07:37:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Roberto Camino <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: The Lost Files

Excellent notion.  I'm especially torqued about the Nobles book.  It's
annoying to sit here and see the missing number (F) in my otherwise
complete set of BBBs (Big Black Books).  Who was working on that?  It
must have been close to publication.  Missions of State was scheduled
after it and made publication. 

BTW, you left off The Vilani Hypothesis.  I did not get one (was on
auto order with IG) so I assume it wasn't published either.


- ---"Peter L.S. Trevor" <ptrevor.trisen@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Over the years there have been a number of aborted projects:
> 
> - Nobles (Imperium Games for T4)
> - The Regency Ship Guide (GDW for TNE)
> - Armor 21 (GDW for T2K)
> - Manhunt: The Omnesium Quest Vol 1 (DGP for MT)
> - Black Duke (DGP for MT)
> - Marc Miller's Battles of the Rebellion (old DGP staff for MM for
MT?)
> and others.
> 
> Some of these were nearer to  publication  than  others,  and  it
> occured to me that some of these products  might  exist  in  some
> sort of crude draft form.  Obviously not up to the usual standard
> expected for published material ... but still of interest to  the
> gaming community.  I know this is a vain hope (I see  a  snowball
> in a location populated by beings with pitchforks), but if anyone
> is sitting on this material please, please, please could  me  see
> it (either here or on a web site)?
> 

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 08:39:05 -0700
From: chet-el@juno.com (Chester L Cox)
Subject: Re: GT and Virus (Strephon can't be killed?)

Cool!  From this point on, IMTU, bullets bounce off his chest and
Strephon is played by George Reeves!

Hey, he may not even need a spaceship now!  (The first NPC in Traveller
with the CHARACTERISTIC of Jump-6.)

*jeep!
  ---Chet
(The best movie of 1998 was made in 1939)

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:06:04 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: GT and Virus (Strephon can't be killed?)

Chester L Cox wrote:

> Cool!  From this point on, IMTU, bullets bounce off his chest and
> Strephon is played by George Reeves!
>
> Hey, he may not even need a spaceship now!  (The first NPC in Traveller
> with the CHARACTERISTIC of Jump-6.)

No, his wheelchair is Jump-6 capable.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:05:33 -0500
From: Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil>
Subject: Semper Fidelis

To all the other Marines out there, Active, Retired, and Former:  

Happy 223rd Birthday!  

And to all the other veterans out there, and around the world, Happy
Veteran's Day/Armistice Day!

Semper Fidelis,

G. G. Smith
Capt   USMC


obTrav:  Heck, there wouldn't have even been a Rule of Man if not for
the Corps!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 09:13:57 -0700
From: "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
Subject: VH was Re: The Lost Files

> BTW, you left off The Vilani Hypothesis.  I did not get one (was on
> auto order with IG) so I assume it wasn't published either.

That is correct. There has been some rumor of this work 
being web-published but I haven't heard it mumbled about in 
a while. Since the author is on the list, we'll see if he 
responds. 

Suz

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:22:01 -0500
From: "N. Eric Phillips" <stilleon@io.com>
Subject: Re: Pyramid and Virus

>Michael D. Peters asked:
>
>>Does this imply that Pyramid WOULD NOT be interested in publishing
articles
>>set in the Virus universe?

>I think Marc would have to decide if that violated the license agreement.
In
>the past, he has indicated that he has no problem with articles appearing
in
>Pyramid which cover all versions of Traveller, but I don't think he has
>addressed this question specifically. As far as I know, no one has
submitted
>an article like that, so the matter hasn't come up yet.
>
>Loren Wiseman


Just to point out- Pyramid has always said it is an independent magazine. In
the past it has had articles for many other gaming systems (Vampire, Mage,
Paranoia) as well as covering Steve Jackson Stuff. The neat thing is that
somtimes an article has stats for different systems, like the adventure
written for Cyberpunk 2020, GURPS Cyberpunk and Cyberspace.

There is one adventure on line in the archives of Pyramid for non-GURPS
Traveller (though I think I will run it in my FUDGE GURPS Traveller game).

If the editorial policy is that Pyramid is a generic magazine that publishes
for any game then there should have no problems with articles or adventures
set in the TNE era, as long as it doesn't give GURPS stats or ways to use
the adventure in the GURPS Traveller universe.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 08:21:06 -0800
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Riot Control Systems

     The Boojom cartel was proud to announce today the unveiling of their
answer to mob violence.  The Q5000 Riot Control System will revolutionise
crowd control procedures.  "A large amount of thought and money went into
this project" said Jax LaFayette, president of the cartel.  "We understand
the need to keep violence under control, but at the same time realise that
the people involved in the violence are a valuable resource."  He smiles at
the camera "Because of that we have produced a crowd control unit that will
stop riots of any size without permanently killing any of the rioters."  He
went on to describe the Q5000 as "A humane, yet punishing way to deter mob
violence."  The system is quite simple in design.  A high speed rotary mini
gun with 6 barrels sends plastic slugs filled with 'Spazm,TM' towards the
target.  Any contact with exposed flesh will cause all the voluntary
muscles in the victim to contract, effectively stopping them in their
tracks.  Anyone hit by this drug will remain cramped for 6 months, give or
take a few days.  While it reduces your work force in the short term,
anyone who has once experienced 'Spazm, TM'  will attempt to avoid a repeat
experience at all costs.  The Boojom cartel has allowed the New Bermuda
planetary police several units to be used in live trials.  The cartel hopes
to have units ready for sale by Christmas.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 12:01:55 -0500
From: Glenn Myers <glenn.myers@mailhub.ansys.com>
Subject: Power/propulsion multidrive; was Fusion power and NTRs

Hi all,

I would like to put together a set of rules to fit my particular
preferences in SFRPG space technology. They are:

Helpar is the primary space M-Drive. It can't be used directly in an
atmosphere (possibly a modified set of pipes could turn it into a heat
engine).

Inefficient power generation could occur while under thrust. Efficient
power generation requires no Heplar running.

I see planetary takeoffs and landing being performed with Contra-Grav
until the vessel hits the upper, very thin atmosphere. Power would be
generated for the Contra-Grav because the Heplar would be off. The
Heplar could be lit at the outer reaches of the atmosphere. 

I should note that I see a tractor/repulser technology as being
equivalent to Contra-Grav (as long as there is an energy balanced
action/reaction force occurring). I just don't want to use reactionless
thrust plates.

I think this could be an interesting setting in which to game. You'd
have to balance energy between systems. Make a decision, fire beam
weapons or run away? I would expect a small efficient reactor to be
cooking along to cover basic power needs and set of accumulators to
store power. 

I refer to this as a MultiDrive in my game and would like to better
flesh it out. Is it remotely possible?

Thanks,

Glenn  
- -- 
______________________________________________________

Glenn E. Myers
ANSYS Inc.                Email: glenn.myers@ansys.com
275 Technology Drive      Phone: (724) 514-2913
Canonsburg, PA 15317      Fax:   (724) 514-3118
______________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:37:17 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: aircraft losses (Back on Topic)

In a message dated 11/10/98 1:16:37 AM Pacific Standard Time,
rfields@actrix.gen.nz writes:

<< 
 Just a wild idea to augment the sensor "dome", Why not have a few grav
 powered detachable sensor domes, give them a target designator and tight
 beam maser link to the gun ships weapons crewperson. They can then
 illuminate targets, launch missiles and call down fire missions. The pilot
 in this time keeps the gun ships suvivability up by terrain following and
 active evasion. The only (intentially) exposed element are the targeting
 drones. >>

How about adding this to a self-propelled grav meson gun...Yech! The vehicle
would NEVER have to pop up. The only thing that can get at it is another meson
gun, or someone above it....

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 12:38:51 EST
From: CPsyop@aol.com
Subject: Grav AFVs (was Re: aircraft losses (Back on Topic))

In a message dated 11/10/98 1:16:37 AM Pacific Standard Time,
rfields@actrix.gen.nz writes:

> Just a wild idea to augment the sensor "dome", Why not have a few grav
>  powered detachable sensor domes, give them a target designator and tight
>  beam maser link to the gun ships weapons crewperson. They can then
>  illuminate targets, launch missiles and call down fire missions. The pilot
>  in this time keeps the gun ships suvivability up by terrain following and
>  active evasion. The only (intentially) exposed element are the targeting
>  drones.
>  
>  The existance of secondary or anti personnel weapon for 'soft targets'
>  (like ditched vehicle crew) isn't an issue. This is for those targets of
>  conveniance that arn't worth using main (guided munutions) armerment for.
>  
>  The principle of suvivability is for a vehicle like this not armour or
>  speed/evasion but not being located.
>  
>  Any counter ideas are welcome.
> 

A good concept but I would still say you need to consider defenses (speed,
armor, active/passive ECM in various combinations) and secondary defensive
weapons up to being able to deal with light vehicles and infantry.  Sure, no
one wants to be detected but PBI (Poor Bloody Infantry) have the damnedest
habit of showing up in the most inconvenient places (I know, I've done it more
then a few times myself on "secure" units and compounds).  Also, with such a
missile platform working close to the main battle area the other side is
likely to develop light hunter/killer AFV's to find and kill it.

Again, it's a good idea and appears to combine aspects of a chopper gunship
with those of modern missile tank destroyers (ie. M901) but it's own defenses
and Murphy should not be ignored.
  
>  Richard Fields
>  New Zealand, a small group of islands southwest of California
>  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow7510.html

Chris Ruhl
SGT USAR
301st PSYOP Company (Airborne)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 00:14:19 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Jump Range Limits By TL

Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU> wrote:

>It may be that for "off the shelf" drives and computers (at least within
>the Imperium) Tech Level didn't matter as much. It takes a year or
>three to build a starship, maybe during that time they can ship
>in a standard Jump-X core from the next subsector over, even if the
>local class-A Starport is only TL10.

ISTR that someone (maybe even in canon) pointed out that once the
breakthroughs are made, the technology can be maintained at a lower level
using standard designs etc. If I remember correctly, the example of the
Romans having the technology to make SMGs was used as an example. So
perhaps both are correct? 'Off the shelf' standard units can be built at a
lower tech level, but actual design and understanding of the theory and
principles requires a higher tech level. Perhaps it's just something so
mundane as the order of magnitude processing power jumps in computer tech
described in T4 etc... It could be made to fit.

>_Kinunir_ (Adventure 1) had General Shipyards at Regina building
>TL15 Battlecruisers (IIRC), Regina is only TL12 - so there may be
>some canon support for this.

I always assumed General (a megacorp) had brought in high tech gear and was
using the yard as an assembly facility.

>If you're an independent world, or working custom stuff, this probably
>wouldn't apply.

Fair point.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 18:01:16 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Traveller Webring

Just a quickie....

Has the Traveller Webring's homepage gone down? I've tried to access it
through a coupl of different servers, and no joy so far.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 13:37:02 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Low, fast and LOUD (off-topic)

Mick Bailey;
>I was privileged to see something similar last year when I was still in air
>traffic control.  Got to go up to Amberley and watch the F-111's strut
>their stuff.  There's talk now of re-engining them with F110's and keeping
>them 'till 2020.
>
>I can't believe that the US got rid of theirs (more spares for us tho').

The F-111s themselves were quite long in the tooth as attack bombers go.
Not that they wouldn't be useful, but the USAF tends to put money into
newer aircraft.  The bird that continued to fly until recently was the
Electronic Warfare version, the EF-111.

If I recall correctly, There was too much airframe cracking going on to
keep the EF-111s on active duty despite the reliance on those birds almost
exclusively for Electronic Warfare.  If there were any chance of saving
them, there would have been quite an investment made.  I think the USAF has
been trying to get a new EW airframe for quite some time through congress,
with no success.  Not suprising since sucha n aircraft is one ofthe most
expensive in the inventory.

Look for an F-15EF or maybe a B-52EW or something with lots of carrying
capacity to fill the EW role in the near future.

What I find amazing is the decision to keep the U-2 recon planes flying.
They are somewhat vulnerable to high-performance SAMs, but so much less
expensive to operate than the SR-71 (Their replacement) and besides, there
aren't any SR-71s in USAF active inventory (NASA has one or two).

ObTrav:  The Imperial Navy upgrades their fleet on an ongoing basis, but of
course the relative backwater worlds get the TL15 replacements cycled in
much later than the frontline units in, say, Regina or Mora, and the worlds
near Capital get them earlier too, since the opportunity to show off the
latest and greates to the Imperial citizenry is too much temptation to
avoid.

So what do you suppose passes for the Colonial Reserve fleets of Glisten
and other 'interior' subsectors?  TL13?  TL12?

On the other end, what quite useful TL13 craft are still filling a critical
role in the Imperial Navy's frontline units?  Rampart Fighters (which
probably can't get much less effective vs real ships anyway)?.

Pete


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:44:07 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re : Smallish vehicle power plants

>From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au>
>Subject: Re : Smallish vehicle power plants (was Fusion+), longish
>
>Steve Hudson wrote :-
>
>>   I've got stats for a fuel cell scrawled in on my Striker charts, copied
>> from B:8, presumably:
>>
>>  TL  Description        Output  Weight/m^3      Price   Fuel
>>   8  MHD turbine         0.60     1000 kg       KCr 10   300
>>   9  Fuel Cell           0.80     1600 kg       KCr 20    30
>>   9  Fusion              2.00     4000 kg       KCr 200    1.5
>>
>>  I suspect that the fuel consumption may be gimped, though (?).
>>
>Quite possible.
>What are the units of that fuel consumption figure? kL per hour per m3
>plant? (don't have Striker, assume it's like MT design system)
>What fuel does it burn? Hydrogen, petroleum distillates or alcohol?
>Is LOX included in the fuel figure?

  IIRC, it's litres per hour per MW. TL 8- is hydrocarbons at rd 1,
fusion is L-Hyd a rd 0.07 (?); I din't recall what B:8 specifies 
for fuel cell input, although it could particulate hydrides at rd 1.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:44:26 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: The Abomination Known As Fusion Plus

>From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
>Subject: Re: The Abomination Known As Fusion Plus
...
>The problem isnt the use of TAKAFP in small vehicles - yes, we do need
>something better than turbocharged straight-eights for grav bikes - but
>it's use in big ones.

  You could probably build light-weight personal grav vehicles under
Striker using a combination of batteries and a small fuel cell; the
batteries would be required to sustain flight, and the fuel cell would
recharge them otherwise.

  OC, the high cost of batteries in Striker (?) may be a problem here.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1122
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Traveller-digest     Tuesday, November 10 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1123



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Imperial Spies
Re: Kurishdam/Arts and Entertainment: Beam Dancing
Re: Kurishdam/Arts and Entertainment: Beam Dancing
RE:  The Lost Files...
Plot
Con Scenario
Kryptonian Strephon
Re: Kryptonian Strephon
Re: [OT] Re: Taking The Hit
Re: [OT] Re: Taking The Hit
TL of IN Ships (Was: Re: Low, fast and LOUD)
Traveller-digest V1998 #1058 -  Jump and Piracy (new idea I'm playing with, bear with me...)
Traveller-digest V1998 #1061 - Guerre de course
Big Ships - Traveller-digest V1998 #1072
Re: Piracy by the Numbers (long)
Re: The Lost Files
Re: [OT] Re: Taking The Hit
re: The Lost Files
Re: Low, fast and LOUD (off-topic)
Re: Con Scenario
Re: Kurishdam/Arts and Entertainment: Beam Dancing
Re: Low, fast and LOUD (off-topic)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:02:39 -0800
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: Imperial Spies

dberry@hooked.net types out dispite a very low BP:
>At 10:25 PM 11/8/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>Tell me about spy organizations that the Imperial runs. I see in G:T p. 99 a 
>>reference to spies. I'd like to add some cloak & dagger to the game.
>Well.... 
>Imperial Naval Intelligence. does most of the military intel work 
>Imperial Interstellar Scout Service. does almost everything else
>and of course every noble and megacorp keep their own stable of agents.
>all of this is IMTU of course.

In my campaign, the groups patron is ex-IN Intelligence, ex-Imperial
Diplomatic Corps.
The purser was an IN Intelligence resourse in the 5th FW.  The pilot is
ex-IIIS Intelligence branch,
the ships scientist did classified cybernetics work for Imperial Military,
and the Ship's Doctor doesn't talk about his assignment during the war...



- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
Vikings? There ain't no vikings here. Just us honest farmers. The town was 
burning, the villagers were dead. They didn't need those sheep anyway. 
That's our story and we're sticking to it.  
                 http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 20:06:44 +0100
From: "Jonas Karlsson" <Jonas.Karlsson@baldakinen.umea.se>
Subject: Re: Kurishdam/Arts and Entertainment: Beam Dancing

> From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
> I think I saw something like this on a PBS Scientific American
> Frontiers [SNIP] They had a whole bunch of interactive instruments.
> One was a field that sensed where you put your hand and made a
corresponding noise.
> There was another that used a baton in a similar fashion.

Maybe it was a Theremin? It appeared in the 1920's. ;-)

http://www.mtsu.edu/~dsmitche/rim419/history/theremin2.html

The following site has a nice overview (in section 9)

http://www.media.mit.edu/~joep/SpectrumWeb/SpectrumX.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:29:42 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Kurishdam/Arts and Entertainment: Beam Dancing

Jonas Karlsson wrote:

> > From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
> > I think I saw something like this on a PBS Scientific American
> > Frontiers [SNIP] They had a whole bunch of interactive instruments.
> > One was a field that sensed where you put your hand and made a
> corresponding noise.
> > There was another that used a baton in a similar fashion.
>
> Maybe it was a Theremin? It appeared in the 1920's. ;-)

Actually it was a "hyperinstrument" from MIT.  They put it together in a
"Brain Opera"
http://brainop.media.mit.edu/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 13:27:54 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us>
Subject: RE:  The Lost Files...

I would like to add my voice to those seeking information on the 
so-called Lost Files, the drafts of unfinished products that have yet 
to see print.  I've seen some of those available for other gaming 
systems and was sad to see the work stopped before they saw print, 
simply because the publishing company folded/gave up the 
game/what-have-you.  Some excellent ideas are certainly bound within 
the files, and if it wouldn't be violating any copyrights, etc, I'd 
love to see some of the hard work that otherwise might not get 
appreciated.  That's my 2Cr.

Thanks,
Jason

============================
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer I
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375

Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 12:45:13 -0800
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Plot

- --0__=NaGQHPyL5BnuugwVG8oGL5IT6uF8yjXiQrqwhjb4EjOsWPBS4nybiePG
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline

                                   Plot
                               Player Brief
          Detective Agency (ala-Teckwar).  Any of the following occupations
          will work:

               Military-Ex               Athlete
               Law Enforcement-Ex        Attorney
               Bounty Hunter             Undercover Agent-Ex
               Computer Specialist       Rogue
               Scout-Ex            Engineer
               Scientist (Indiana Jones adventurous type)
     The local government has asked your agency to examine a puzzle that
they have discovered.  A system defense boat, upon responding to a ship
distress call, found an ancient station in a LaGrange point around the
outermost planet of the system.  There were no people to be found on either
the trader or the station.  There was power to the station and the trader,
and neither showed any signs of a struggle.  The station has been
identified as a remnant from before the rule of man.
     An insurance agency has also contacted you about finding a ship that
has been registered as lost.  The vessel 'Lucky' has not reported in over 3
months and it was to take a small hop to the outer planets to resupply a
mining station at the Gas Giant.
     The Government has hired your agency to keep this out of the public
- --0__=NaGQHPyL5BnuugwVG8oGL5IT6uF8yjXiQrqwhjb4EjOsWPBS4nybiePG
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable


?s
eye.  If the Imperials were to discover that the station exists, the sy=
stem
would become quarantined until they had both examined the object comple=
tely
and found nothing worth pursuing, or they were able to move it to anoth=
er
location for study.  If the system becomes Red-zoned the planetary econ=
omy
would fail.  The reason for this fear is the object in the largest of t=
he
station labs.  This object is undoubtably a relic of the ancients.
Imperial policy is too red-zone any place that may have ancients ruins =
to
allow their scientists time to study them before they are moved if
possible.  The other reason the government hired your company is to fin=
d
out if the item has any value that this system could exploit before the=

Imperials take it.
     The station is an archaeological find unsurpassed since the beginn=
ing
of the Third Imperium.  The station was built to sustain itself
indefinitely, with an automated maintenance system.  There are also oth=
er
systems in the station that defy the known fact that the Vilani Empire =
did
not allow any research into new and innovative ideas.  The mysteries
regarding this station continue to multiply the further anyone explores=
 its
depths.
     Because of the presence of the Free Trader you will only have a co=
uple
of weeks, before they will have to tell the owners that they have recov=
ered
the ship without a crew.  The government also wants to know what this s=
hip
is doing way out at the last orbit, when the location of its supply dro=
p
was the 6th orbit.  They really want to know where the crew has gone, a=
nd
what secrets they may have uncovered.

     Any comments on this would be appreciated.

Leo
=

- --0__=NaGQHPyL5BnuugwVG8oGL5IT6uF8yjXiQrqwhjb4EjOsWPBS4nybiePG--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:39:36 -0600
From: Loren Wiseman <lkw@io.com>
Subject: Con Scenario

Gentlebeings:

Several of you in the past have mentioned running GURPS Traveller scenarios
at conventions. I have a desparate need for one in the next week or 10
days. Anybody got a good, simple set-up ready to go?

Please send replies to lkw@io.com    or     gdwgames@aol.com

No need to clutter the list.



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Editor
     Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     SJ Games
     LKW@IO.COM
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:51:22 -0700
From: chet-el@juno.com (Chester L Cox)
Subject: Kryptonian Strephon

Joe, I think you may have confused George Reeves (not his birth name)
with Christopher Reeve (singular).  No relation.  Strephon is played by
George Reeves, the only Superman who had bullets bounce off his chest,
but would dodge a thrown gun.

(For anyone following this) I wrote:

> Cool!  From this point on, IMTU, bullets bounce off his chest and
> Strephon is played by George Reeves!
>
> Hey, he may not even need a spaceship now!  (The first NPC in Traveller
> with the CHARACTERISTIC of Jump-6.)

Then from Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com> No, his wheelchair is Jump-6
capable.
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 17:19:21 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Kryptonian Strephon

Chester L Cox wrote:

> Joe, I think you may have confused George Reeves (not his birth name)
> with Christopher Reeve (singular).  No relation.  Strephon is played by
> George Reeves, the only Superman who had bullets bounce off his chest,
> but would dodge a thrown gun.

Yea, I realised my mistake after I sent it off.  But the Jump-6 wheelchair
would be useful.  Didn't that guy jump off a building to his death?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 18:14:07 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Taking The Hit

"Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net> wrote:

>YO, DOM! Have you been watching some more of those FBI training films?

Nope.... but I do know people who worked for the AWRE (Atomic Weapons
Research Establishment) here in the UK.

>I guess the way your looking at it we Americans were responsible for the
>Indians and the Pakistani's getting nukes too.

Nope, the only one I have any sense of paranoia about is Israel, which has
come into quite a lot of high tech weapons via the US. Maybe I phrased it
wrong, but like it or not the US tends to be seen as responsible for
Israeli actions to some degree...

>Hey lighten up man, it was
>meant as a joke the way I read it.  Dangerous Dave Golden even came back in
>with a comment that it was tongue in cheek to start with.

I accept that Dave meant it in jest - however, the follow on post was
arguing that a 'limited nuclear war' in the middle east would be of little
consequence. Which is why I blew.

>Nobody I know of
>advocates nukes.  The whole world would be a much better place without from
>my perspective.  We love ya buddy and you don't have to get your hackles up,
>I promise.

Sure - this was not meant as an anti-US tirade, even if I can't get an
English version (language and units) of GURPS Traveller ;-) Apologies if it
read as such.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 18:17:28 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Taking The Hit

Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net> wrote:

>At 09:13 PM 11/9/98 +0000, you wrote:

>>So you would feel fine with a nuclear exchange in, say, central America or
>>the Caribbean?
>It was a reference to the Gulf War.

It was an ANALOGY - I know the original post was talking about a
hypothetical version of the Gulf War which went nuclear.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 17:22:54 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: TL of IN Ships (Was: Re: Low, fast and LOUD)

Peter H. Brenton wrote:
> 
<<snips F-111/EW bird discussion>>
> 
> ObTrav:  The Imperial Navy upgrades their fleet on an ongoing basis, but of
> course the relative backwater worlds get the TL15 replacements cycled in
> much later than the frontline units in, say, Regina or Mora, and the worlds
> near Capital get them earlier too, since the opportunity to show off the
> latest and greates to the Imperial citizenry is too much temptation to
> avoid.
> 
> So what do you suppose passes for the Colonial Reserve fleets of Glisten
> and other 'interior' subsectors?  TL13?  TL12?
> 
> On the other end, what quite useful TL13 craft are still filling a critical
> role in the Imperial Navy's frontline units?  Rampart Fighters (which
> probably can't get much less effective vs real ships anyway)?.
> 
IMTU, most ships out in the Spinward Marches (circa 1100), to include
the IN, are built at less than TL15, in order to maximize the local
sustainability of the ships.  Standard construction is TL12, with higher
TLs built for specific needs.  For instance, the BROOKLYN and ST. LOUIS
classes of light cruiser are built at TL13, in order to allow for J-4
capability (the two are built on nearly-identical hulls; BROOKLYNs have
meson spinal mounts, and ST. LOUISs have PA spinal mounts).  I emphasize
that these are new-construction vessels, not centuries-old relics.

Obviously, YMMV.

> Pete
> 
>                       Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
> "A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
>   -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 23:34:42 +0000
From: C G Essery <cgessery@netcomuk.co.uk>
Subject: Traveller-digest V1998 #1058 -  Jump and Piracy (new idea I'm playing with, bear with me...)

Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com> wrote:
"I'm aware that I have only incorporated 2D into my description - I'm
still 
working on all of the ramifications.  But the stellar masking of star 
systems is just as valid for the 3D model as the 2D model.  This is a
new 
idea I'm working through, and would like to hear some comments."

I think that in 3d the problem simplifies greatly although you may
always need to move further under manuever drive.  The majority of Solar
Systems would appear to be in the Galactic Plane, therefore if you move
at 90 degrees from the galactic plane for a distance of 100.000001 times
the Steller Diameter then you should be able to jump in any direction
you like, presumably to a similar distance above/below the planet of
destination so that the destination sun's 100D would not intefere with
you either (more difficult in binary/trinary systems).

I am not sufficiently knowledgeable about astronomy to know the answer
to this, but is it possible to site a star-base in geo-stationary orbit
above the pole of a planet?  If so you could place one above (and
possibly one below) a planet and transfer all trade items to a local
"tramp" ship that would take the goods/people down to the planet.

Clive Essery

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 00:10:57 +0000
From: C G Essery <cgessery@netcomuk.co.uk>
Subject: Traveller-digest V1998 #1061 - Guerre de course

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 01:33:06 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Guerre de course (was Re: Capital Ships of WWII)

"  Invincible & Inflexible detached from the Grand Fleet in late `14 to
hunt them down after their successes in the Pacific; one shudders to
think of how much ink would have been spilled since if a North Sea fleet
engagement had occurred in their absence."

Prior to meeting the 2 I's (plus a load of other Armoured/Light Cruisers
and one Pre-dreadnought Battleship grounded at Falklands), Graf Spee's
only success to my knowledge was in destoying two RN cruisers, (Good
Hope and a Monmouth).  One of his cruisers that detached (the Emden) did
a lot better.

The I's were also in the Mediteranean in 1914 and might have bumped into
Goeben if they were unlucky.  They were not a very successful design but
did succeed in the intended task of destroying Armoured Cruisers.

Clive Essery

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 21:03:03 +0000
From: C G Essery <cgessery@netcomuk.co.uk>
Subject: Big Ships - Traveller-digest V1998 #1072

William F. Hostman wrote:
"Hmmm... weapons surface area could be eliminated by using deep meson
guns.
Some commo could be moved internal using meson comms. Reduce the PEMS
and
AEMS arrays by using folding arrays. In theory, large enough bay doors
could have other surface features affixed.

So, techheads one and all, how much could we do with, oh, say 10MTd
(assume
max jump matched to max G to avoid solving for two variables) ???"

I assume by your reference to deep meson guns that you are referring to
T4/FF&S2 (I don't have TNE so don't know if they were introduced then).

>From my reading of the T4 rules, there no longer seems to be a limit to
the number of Meson's that you can have.  You could mix a Meson Spinal
with Bays, this was verbotten for CT and probably MT.  You also seem to
be able to have multiple "parallel" mounts that are 80% max the length
of the ship mounting them.  I have designed a T4 ship carrying 6
parallel meson's using this concept organised as two 3 gun batteries.  

I would hate to think what an 80% length meson would look like on a
10MTd hull, especially if it was in a Needle configuration.

This looks like a good challenge - I will report back if the design
looks good.

Clive Essery

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 23:22:22 +0000
From: C G Essery <cgessery@netcomuk.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Piracy by the Numbers (long)

Keven R Pittsinger wrote:
"As a character, I'd tend to pass on the really really REALLY big prizes
no 
matter how juicy they look.  If I was in a properly decked out Type P,
my 
targets would be Sub-R's & Sub-M's, with the occaisional Far, Free, or
Fat 
trader thrown in.  Scout ships I might take, if only to strip out their
sensor 
suites and scrap out the rest.  After I got my sensors maxxed out, I
wouldn't 
bother with them."

Keven I like your comments on Pirates, and have believed that although
some arguements show that Piracy is uneconomical, the most Canonical
sentence that I can think of shows that Marc Millar intended that Piracy
was not only possible but likely.  I first saw this sentence in 1977,
can I introduce those of you who may be younger than me to it: "This is
Free Trader Beowulf, calling anyone...".  Now I don't feel that they are
complaining about being boarded by Customs & Excise or probably the
local Navy, or IN.  Their attacker is probably a pirate or privateer, it
doesn't matter which, the effect is the same from Beowulf's point of
view.

As I believe that Piracy is possible, my Starship Design Bureau has come
up with an interesting design.  It is code-named Ninja, and resembles in
all outward appearences a Sub-M, but is in fact a TL15 T4 design capable
of Man-6 and carrying 6 parallel Meson Guns organised as 2 MFDs of 3
guns each.  The first thing that a pirate is likely to know about it is
when their crew start dying, or when the full man drive kicks in.  The
guns are fixed to fire forwards only, but are designed using the Deep
Meson concept so they are 80%/1.1 times the max length of the ship
long.  They may not be very strong, but I wouldn't expect a pirate ship
to have a Meson Screen, so a penetration is vitually guaranteed (the
ship also has 3 computer(9fib).

I would expect that outbound jump points would point directly to the
star that you are jumping to, and there won't be many of those
especially if you are targetting Jump-1 Sub-Ms.  The T4 rules also state
that it takes 1 hour to build the Jump Bubble before you can jump, so if
the Sub-M was jumping with zero vector (the safest way) then they would
be hanging around stationery for some while.  A running jump is of
course more economical as you can accelerate all the way out then when
you finish your jump you can decelerate all the way in.  This would of
course imply that the SDB knows the likely jumping out areas (probably
only 1 or 2 per world) and would hang around there.

Clive

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 23:47:34 +0000
From: Mark Watson <markw@antares.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: The Lost Files

"Peter L.S. Trevor" wrote:

> Over the years there have been a number of aborted projects:
>
> - Nobles (Imperium Games for T4)
> - The Regency Ship Guide (GDW for TNE)
> - Armor 21 (GDW for T2K)
> - Manhunt: The Omnesium Quest Vol 1 (DGP for MT)
> - Black Duke (DGP for MT)
> - Marc Miller's Battles of the Rebellion (old DGP staff for MM for MT?)
> and others.
>

Also DGP, from various Digest issues:
- - Grand Explorations (Solomani rim expeditions, Zhodani core expeditions,
Hiver development agency)
- - 101 Robots revised for MT
- - Robots & Cyborgs
- - Starship Operators Manual vol 2
- - the other aliens sourcebooks - Zhodani & Droyne, K'kree & Hivers, Humans
& Non-humans

Omnesium Quest was revised down from a trilogy of 56 page volumes to a
single 104 page volume in an announcement in MTJ 2. Manhunt was advertised
in Digests 20 & 21, with what looks like Rob Caswell's deckplans for Seeker
class, as well as some other illos.

M

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 23:20:47 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Taking The Hit

"Peter L.S. Trevor" <ptrevor.trisen@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:

>Dom wrote:
>> If you feel fine about a local nuclear exchange, well, that's
>> your problem, but I'm sure the Egyptians, the Italians, Greeks
>> and Turks will be somewhat irritated.
>Er, shouldn't that be "irradiated"?
>
>(Sorry, couldn't resist!)

Don't worry - someone was always glowing to say that.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 23:25:58 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: The Lost Files

 "Peter L.S. Trevor" <ptrevor.trisen@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:

>Over the years there have been a number of aborted projects:

<snip>

>and others.

The complete draft of Aslan, Vargr and Graytch (spelt wrong?) for IGs
Aliens Vol 1.
The three quarters written draft of Dagudashaag sector in M0....

> I know this is a vain hope (I see  a  snowball
>in a location populated by beings with pitchforks), but if anyone
>is sitting on this material please, please, please could  me  see
>it (either here or on a web site)?

That depends on who owns copyright. Now, if IG haven't paid for work the
commissioned I suspect the author still owns the rights, (Bloo?),
especially if they put the copyright disclaimers in the work. I'd like to
see some of that material (in addition, DGPs AI would have been nice) too.
The best we've had so far is Paul Sanders recovered Keith books.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 16:48:43 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Low, fast and LOUD (off-topic)

At 01:37 pm 11/10/98 -0500, you wrote:

>Look for an F-15EF or maybe a B-52EW or something with lots of
carrying
>capacity to fill the EW role in the near future.

	Not quite--look for the EA-6B Prowler, a Navy aircraft now filling
the joint service EW role, including AF pilots giong through the Navy
training.

- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 16:50:35 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Con Scenario

At 03:39 pm 11/10/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Gentlebeings:
>
>Several of you in the past have mentioned running GURPS Traveller
scenarios
>at conventions. I have a desparate need for one in the next week or
10
>days. Anybody got a good, simple set-up ready to go?
>
>Please send replies to lkw@io.com    or     gdwgames@aol.com
>
>No need to clutter the list.

	Since when would Traveller scenarios be considered "clutter" on the
TML? As long, of course, as you include the obligatory near-C lesbian
Aslan pirates ...
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 00:17:24 GMT
From: jzeitlin@cyburban.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Re: Kurishdam/Arts and Entertainment: Beam Dancing

On Tue, 10 Nov 1998 03:51:03 -0500, Joe Pettit
<jpettit@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>Chris Seamans wrote:

I'm replying to Chris, too...

>> >Beam dancing started out as a techno-fad in colleges on Terra.
>> >It rapidly spread throughout the Solomani Rim and the Domain of
>> >Sol, and from there into the rest of the Imperium.  Today, it is
>> >considered a mainstream art form throughout the Imperium, and it
>> >is not unknown outside it.

>> Woohoo...  Killer post Jeff!

Thanks!

>> Now how about some "beam dancing" artists, and where can I find a recording
>> :-)

Well, if you can hold on a couple of more days, I'm working on an
"Up Close and Personal" on Shuchithra.  Recordings, I can't help
you with.  Yet.  But the tech isn't that far in advance of what
we've got today; with the right encouragement, you might see it
in ten or fifteen years.

>I think I saw something like this on a PBS Scientific American Frontiers this
>past season.  They had a whole bunch of interactive instruments.  One was a
>field that sensed where you put your hand and made a corresponding noise.
>There was another that used a baton in a similar fashion.

The first one sounds like it might have been a theremin, which
dates back quite a ways.  It's entirely possible that the author
of the book that described the art form that inspired my post
knew about the theremin, and extrapolated.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 19:11:10 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: Low, fast and LOUD (off-topic)

At 01:37 PM 11/10/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Mick Bailey;
>>I was privileged to see something similar last year when I was still in air
>>traffic control.  Got to go up to Amberley and watch the F-111's strut
>>their stuff.  There's talk now of re-engining them with F110's and keeping
>>them 'till 2020.
>>
>>I can't believe that the US got rid of theirs (more spares for us tho').
>
>The F-111s themselves were quite long in the tooth as attack bombers go.
>Not that they wouldn't be useful, but the USAF tends to put money into
>newer aircraft.  The bird that continued to fly until recently was the
>Electronic Warfare version, the EF-111.
>
>If I recall correctly, There was too much airframe cracking going on to
>keep the EF-111s on active duty despite the reliance on those birds almost
>exclusively for Electronic Warfare.  If there were any chance of saving
>them, there would have been quite an investment made.  I think the USAF has
>been trying to get a new EW airframe for quite some time through congress,
>with no success.  Not suprising since sucha n aircraft is one ofthe most
>expensive in the inventory.
>
>Look for an F-15EF or maybe a B-52EW or something with lots of carrying
>capacity to fill the EW role in the near future.

On another list I am on, it was noted that the USAF is already conducting
familiarization training with the EA-6B.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1123
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, November 11 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1124



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Low, fast and LOUD (off-topic)
Re: Officers and such
Rail Guns
Re: System Defense spending on Gov 7 worlds
Re: Rail Guns
Re: Con Scenario
Re: IISS intelligence
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1103
Re: Rail Guns
Re: IISS intelligence
Re: Con Scenario
Re: Low, fast and LOUD (off-topic)
Re : Riot Control Systems
Statites (was jump masking)
T5
T4 Opposed Tasks
greater range = greater chance of success?
Re: T5
re: The Lost Files
Re: The Lost Files (Grand Explorations)
Re: Statites (was jump masking)
Re: More question

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 19:31:21 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: Low, fast and LOUD (off-topic)

At 04:48 PM 11/10/98 -0700, you wrote:
>At 01:37 pm 11/10/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>Look for an F-15EF or maybe a B-52EW or something with lots of
>carrying
>>capacity to fill the EW role in the near future.
>
>	Not quite--look for the EA-6B Prowler, a Navy aircraft now filling
>the joint service EW role, including AF pilots giong through the Navy
>training.
>
Heh, so I'm not the only one who heard this then :)

BTW, also heard of an EF-18 that will replace the EA-6B

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 17:41:30 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Officers and such

> From: Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil>
> The USMC did not have any Warrants that were pilots, like the Army
> does.  All USMC pilots were commissioned officers.

What about the Flying Sergeants (sp)

Btw, Happy Birthday to the Corps....

Semper Fi...  Do or Die...  Hoorah...

> Greg Smith

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 17:54:08 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Rail Guns

I have been reading the Honor Harrigan Books by David Webber, & some other
MilSF books & I have had this thought...

In HH missiles are launched by using a Mass Driver to throw them clear of
the ships impeller wedges & in other books of this type many of the ships
are armed with Mass Drivers, Rail Guns, or massive Gauss Rifles...

What would be the effect of a Mass Driver/Rail Gun/massice Gauss Rifle in
ship to ship combat in HG, MT, TNE, & T4?

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 18:03:47 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: System Defense spending on Gov 7 worlds

- ----------
> From: DustyLV769@aol.com
> Subject: System Defense spending on Gov 7 worlds
> Date: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 7:56 PM
> 	I am curious...

So am I....

> 	Since we assume that the local defenses are built and paid for by the
local
> government...who takes care of SysDef in cases of balkanized worlds? 
Would
> you want to trust some OTHER country w/ the monopoly on the defense
> forces...or would an arms race start, as each nation begins to feel
threatened
> by the expanding naval forces of the other nation??

I would have to say, each nation or bloc of nations will build its own
SDBs, Fighters, & Starships...

> Dusty

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 17:29:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Rail Guns

Legate Legion writes:
> 
> What would be the effect of a Mass Driver/Rail Gun/massice Gauss Rifle in
> ship to ship combat in HG, MT, TNE, & T4?

Um...the practical upper limit for railgun velocity is maybe 10 kilometers per
second.  At this rate, your shots will take more than a turn to cross a single
brilliant lances hex, and have essentially zero chance to hit any enemy vehicle
at any significant range.  As such, the net effect is 'wow, you wasted weight
and volume on a totally useless weapons system'.

Note that the use of railguns in the HH books sounds reasonable -- it's just an
electromagnetic missile launcher.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 18:25:38 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Con Scenario

>Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:39:36 -0600
>From: Loren Wiseman <lkw@io.com>

>Several of you in the past have mentioned running GURPS Traveller scenarios
>at conventions. I have a desparate need for one in the next week or 10
>days. Anybody got a good, simple set-up ready to go?
>
>Please send replies to lkw@io.com    or     gdwgames@aol.com

I can send you a copy of the adventure that I sent into Pyramid (they
are still considering it, but I can't see why they would object to
your using it).  It might be a bit long for a "one-shot" but you
could cut out some of the encounters....

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 12:25:52
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: IISS intelligence

A
>From: "Peter L.S. Trevor" <ptrevor.trisen@zetnet.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: Imperial Spies
>
>The Imperial Interstellar Scout Service (IISS) as a whole  is  an
>information gathering organisation.  But  'cloak & dagger'  stuff
>tends to be  carried  out  by  the  Intelligence  Branch  of  the
>Detached Duty Office, and the Security Branch of  the  Operations
>Office.

Note that Intel Branch does not report via Operational Control, but reports
the IISS HQ via DDO.

Dont forget Internal Mapping Branch and External Mapping Branch of Imperial
Grand Survey, which do report to Operations Office via Operational Control.

Contact and Liason Branch in the Exploration Office have the role of
'locating, making first contact (and maintaining friendly relations) with
non-human intelligent races'. They do report to Operations Office via
Operational Control.

Translation : there are at least five agencies within the IISS that deal
with Intelligence, and not all of them report through the same channels.

Have fun ... I'm sure they do :)

Ian Whitchurch

PS Buy, beg or borrow a copy of the IISS orginisation chart in LBB 6.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 18:52:16 -0800
From: James Brewer <jwbrewer@ucsd.edu>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1103

>From: dberry@hooked.net <dberry@hooked.net>
>Date: Friday, November 06, 1998 1:19 PM
>
>>>(Too many years as a 19E (M-60 Patton Tanker) are showing...
>>
>>11B, Warsaw Pact Ammo Collection Specialist.
>>
>> Douglas E. Berry
>
>Doug, in my day the 11B (Bush or Bang-Bang, your choice) was described as "A
>non-electric pop-up target."
>
>Thom

In the Artillery we described them as soft targets of opportunity or
"Cannon Fodder".

Jim Brewer (One time 13A )

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 20:58:30 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Rail Guns

> From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
> Subject: Re: Rail Guns
> Date: Tuesday, November 10, 1998 6:29 PM
> > What would be the effect of a Mass Driver/Rail Gun/massice Gauss Rifle
in
> > ship to ship combat in HG, MT, TNE, & T4?
> Um...the practical upper limit for railgun velocity is maybe 10
kilometers per
> second.  At this rate, your shots will take more than a turn to cross a
single
> brilliant lances hex, and have essentially zero chance to hit any enemy
vehicle
> at any significant range.  As such, the net effect is 'wow, you wasted
weight
> and volume on a totally useless weapons system'.

That is with our current TL of 7 to 8...  Would it not be higher at TL 9+?

Think about it, a 100 kg chunk of iron slamming into a ship at 10 km/s will
do some major damage, will it not?

> Note that the use of railguns in the HH books sounds reasonable -- it's
just an
> electromagnetic missile launcher.

Correct...

Legate Legion,  Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 04:13:49 -0000
From: "Peter L.S. Trevor" <ptrevor.trisen@zetnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: IISS intelligence

Ian wrote:
> > From: "Peter L.S. Trevor" <ptrevor.trisen@zetnet.co.uk>
> > Subject: Re: Imperial Spies
> >
> > The Imperial Interstellar Scout Service (IISS) as a whole  is  an
> > information gathering organisation.  But  'cloak & dagger'  stuff
> > tends to be  carried  out  by  the  Intelligence  Branch  of  the
> > Detached Duty Office, and the Security Branch of  the  Operations
> > Office.
>

> Note that Intel Branch does not report via Operational Control,
> but reports the IISS HQ via DDO.
>
> Dont forget Internal Mapping Branch and External Mapping Branch
> of Imperial Grand Survey, which do report to Operations Office
> via Operational Control.
>
> Contact and Liason Branch in the Exploration Office have the role
> of 'locating, making first contact (and maintaining friendly
> relations) with non-human intelligent races'. They do report to
> Operations Office via Operational Control.
>
> Translation : there are at least five agencies within the IISS
> that deal with Intelligence, and not all of them report through
> the same channels.
>
> Have fun ... I'm sure they do :)
>
> Ian Whitchurch
>
> PS Buy, beg or borrow a copy of the IISS orginisation chart in LBB 6.
>


I do have LBB 6.  But I am curious: do you consider the  Internal
Mapping Branch, the External Mapping Branch, and the  Contact and
Liaison Branch to be in the 'Cloak & Dagger' category?  I suppose
pre-First Contact missions run by the  Contact and Liaison Branch
might be considered as such, but the original post was a question
about Imperial 'cloak & dagger' style spy organisations.  Or  did
I miss something?



Regards PLST
"Rome wasn't burned in a day."

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 98 22:45:43 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Con Scenario

On 11/10/98 at 04:50 PM,  "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net> said:

>>Several of you in the past have mentioned running GURPS Traveller
>>scenarios at conventions.  I have a desparate need for one in the
>>next week or 10 days.  Anybody got a good, simple set-up ready to
>>go?

>>Please send replies to lkw@io.com    or     gdwgames@aol.com

>>No need to clutter the list.

>	Since when would Traveller scenarios be considered "clutter" on the
>TML? As long, of course, as you include the obligatory near-C lesbian
>Aslan pirates ...

I'm with Dave, we could use a few good scenarios on the list. 

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 04:52:41 -0000
From: "Peter L.S. Trevor" <ptrevor.trisen@zetnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Low, fast and LOUD (off-topic)

Peter H Brenton wrote:
>The F-111s themselves were quite long in the tooth as attack bombers go.
>Not that they wouldn't be useful, but the USAF tends to put money into
>newer aircraft.  The bird that continued to fly until recently was the
>Electronic Warfare version, the EF-111.

>

<snip>
>
>What I find amazing is the decision to keep the U-2 recon planes flying.
>They are somewhat vulnerable to high-performance SAMs, but so much less
>expensive to operate than the SR-71 (Their replacement) and besides, there
>aren't any SR-71s in USAF active inventory (NASA has one or two).
>


IIRC as of last year the RAF still had an operational squadron of
EW  variant  Canberra  aircraft.   The  first  prototype  of  the
Canberra flew in 1949, as opposed to 1955 for the U2.

In a recent NATO naval wargame a lone 'enemy' Canberra  was  able
to spoof a ship captain into  'destroying'  his  own  fleet:  The
spoofed ship found all its communications were being  jammed  but
were able to  get  in  communications  with  a  friendly  frigate
captain, a helicopter, and an AWACS.  The captain of the  frigate
reported that he was under attack by a number of 'enemy' vessels,
which  the  AWACS  and  helicopter   confirmed,   and   requested
assistance.  Our captain dutifully helped out  by  'launching'  a
missile attack on the coordinates supplied by  the  AWACS.  After
the exercise was over it was revealled that the frigate  captain,
helicopter, and AWACS were just different crewmen of the  'enemy'
Canberra ... and the coordinates for the missile attack were  for
his own fleet (which he sunk)!

Moral: Never underestimate something just because  its  old,  and
remember your radio procedures.

ObTrav:  IMTU I see the officers and crew of the Colonial  fleets
being more ingeneous and maverick than their complacent  Imperial
Navy counterparts.



Regards PLST
"Rome wasn't burned in a day."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 15:57:02 +1100
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re : Riot Control Systems

Leo Hale wrote :-
(some interesting lead-in material clipped) :-

> sends plastic slugs filled with 'Spazm,TM' towards the
> target.  Any contact with exposed flesh will cause all the voluntary
> muscles in the victim to contract, effectively stopping them in their
> tracks.  Anyone hit by this drug will remain cramped for 6 months, give or
> take a few days.
>
Skeletal (striated) muscle vs. smooth (non-striated). You can't get more
selective than that without antibody cocktails (not across skin) or
nanotech (sky's the limit).

Assuming simple pharmacology, this stuff will knock out your diaphragm
and intercostal muscles, making it impossible to
breathe (or be ventilated, if it came to that) ; and possibly cause
fractures if the spasms are intense enough.

What are the effects of overdose? If the agent lasts for more than four
minutes, you've got a brain dead (or dying) rioter on your hands who you
can't clear an airway for (jaw spasmed shut?) or ventilate (stiff chest
wall) on whom paralysing agents might not work (receptor competition
with 'Spazm (TM),(R), etc'?).

This generates bad PR for the authorities.
Then again, they might not care.

The most effective riot control agent for a brutal regime is a 0.2% mist
of n-heptane.
This will induce general anaesthesia in 90% of humans that get a
lungful (which is why some people sniff petrol or gasoline).
Unfortunately, you're going to have a fatality rate of at least 25% due
to the toxic effects on the heart, as well as the complications of
unprotected airways (breathing in one's lunch, for example).

N-heptane also has this advantage : you can always light it.

Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gearhead, Gaming Enthusiast

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 15:57:21 +1100
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Statites (was jump masking)

Clive Essery wrote :-

> is it possible to site a star-base in geo-stationary orbit
> above the pole of a planet?  If so you could place one above (and
> possibly one below) a planet and transfer all trade items to a local
> "tramp" ship that would take the goods/people down to the planet.
>
Yes, if sufficient acceleration can be maintained to oppose the
gravitational pull of the primary.

Robert Forward patented the concept of the 'statite' or stationary
satellite in 1989.
It uses a lightsail to provide the acceleration.
The only problem is that with current technology, you need to be about
200 Earth radii away to keep the sail, etc. 'aloft'.

Note that geosync altitude is 6 Earth radii.

Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gearhead, Gaming Enthusiast

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 00:32:36 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: T5

Discussion Draft

T5 is (and has been since mid last year) in design, with the intention that we
find a publisher as the final date comes closer. Drafts have been circulated
for Character Generation (through TML), Tasks and Skills (through TML), Minor
Race Generation (limited), and Ship Design (limited)

This is the first shot over the bow (so to speak) as I get closer to a final
draft for the next edition.

Marc Miller

FarFuture@AOL.com
CardSharks@AOL.com
http://members.aol.com/farfuture

What is in T5?

Vision: The goal of T5 is to bring together the design and play experience of
Traveller so far and create a long-lasting, well-thought-out science-fiction
rules system for the Traveller universe. The game system should be
understandable and easily playable, incorporate multiple levels of complexity,
mesh with the real world (in so far as is possible).

Structure: The central rules structure of T5 consists of a core rules book
(T5), a companion, a technical architecture book (perhaps itself divided into
three volumes… ships, equipment/weapons, and vehicles), and an atlas. Only T5
will appear initially. Our intention is to develop the equivalent of FF&S
intandem so that it expands T5 rather than supplants it.

The rules structure will support all milieux, although it will provide
examples and details for one milieu (probably M:0, and probably set in the
Antares sector).

T5 Contents: The T5 volume will contain the following rules sections

A. Introduction. Foundations of Traveller. Basic Players Guide. Basic Game
Master’s Guide. Dice and Probabilities.
B. Characters (separate chapter discussing who they ar eand what they do).
Character Generation (Army, Marines, Navy, Merchants, Nobles, Scouts,
Entertainers, Agents, Rogues, Scholars, Citizens, and Functionaries).
C. Skills. Tasks.
D. Every Adventure Begins and Ends At A Starport.
E. Space Travel. Ship Operations. Ship Economics. Ship Design. Ship Combat.
F. Worlds. World Generation. World Surfaces. Terrain. Travel on Worlds.
Encounters. Animals. 
G. Special Activities. Noble Lands. Scholar Research Projects. Trade and
Commerce. Scout Surveys. Naval Patrols. Military Missions.

New To T5. 

Cards. T5 introduces a variety of cards (commonly 2.5 x 3.5) for Equipment,
Weapons, Vehicles, Ships, Characters and NPCs, etc. These cards make data for
players and game masters alike easy to reference and use.

Charts. The focus of T5 is the chart pages which detail how to do things
succinctly and clearly. The rules text then gives examples and discussion of
this material.

More Aliens in the General Population. As opposed to everyone being human.

Tasks integrated into everything. Rather than just tacked on.

More detached duty. As a result, naval characters can have ships and be part
of the adventuring. So can scouts. And Scholars. 

Expanded system for wounds and fighting. Which allows for non-combat injury
(accidents, cold, heat, vacuum, and such. This in turn opens the opportunity
for weapons and devices which can impose damage other than just hits (so nukes
can impose burns and radiation as well as blast). High tech weapons can do the
same.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 22:34:17 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: T4 Opposed Tasks

A while back there was a heated debate on this list about how Opposed
Tasks worked in T4. At the time, I was running MT, so I didn't pay much
attention.

My players and I got into a similar debate about this during Saturday
night's session. Rather than rehash the thing, I cut the debate short
and said I'd try to find the debate on the TML and would email it to
them.

The debate we had was a me-versus-them thing: they all think that the
winner of an opposed task should be the one with the highest roll, as
long as that roll is still a success.

Does anyone remember what the rationale behind the lowest-roll-wins side
was?
- -- 
Erwin Fritz
UNIX/NT/LAN/DBA Guy
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 22:29:41 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: greater range = greater chance of success?

In the T4 combat system as I understand it, the difficulty of the "to
hit" task is a function of the range of the opponent. This gives rise to
an interesting situation which I'd like your comments on.

Let's say that I'm shooting someone at very short range. My "to hit"
task is Average (2D). Now, let's say that my opponent is wearing battle
dress, and I have a handgun. There's just no way I'm penetrating that
kind of armor.

So, in a flash of brilliance, I run away. I run to, oh, say medium
range. I start shooting at him from this range. My task difficulty is
now formidable (3D). Can I hit him? Nope, unless I get spectacular
success.

Because I can't get spectacular success at less than medium range, I'm
into the absurd situation where my pistol can only penetrate battle
dress when I'm at least 46 meters away! If I'm closer, then I can't hit
him.

Am I getting the rules wrong? I don't actually have T4 (not having seen
it available here in Calgary), so the only things I know about T4 are
what Marc has graciously emailed me and what I've gotten from this list.


- -- 
Erwin Fritz
UNIX/NT/LAN/DBA Guy
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 21:48:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Roberto Camino <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: T5

- ---CardSharks@aol.com wrote:
>
> Discussion Draft
> 

Cool.  I know that you will get alot of criticism over the next couple
of days (weeks, months), but I'm on board.  Even the cards thing.  I
really want to see Traveller make a profit for who ever publishes it. 
I bought everything IG put out, just because I'm a diehard, but the
rest of the world needs some flash and dash to get their attention. 
Go, Marc.
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 23:51:37 -0700
From: Sanders <timmon@primenet.com>
Subject: re: The Lost Files

At 11:25 PM 11/10/98 +0000, you wrote:
>The best we've had so far is Paul Sanders recovered Keith books.

Speaking of which -  I've only had 16 orders during a four month period,
and considering that there are less than five weeks left in which to order,
it's starting to look highly unlikely that I will reach the break-even
point (70-80 orders). If this turns out to be the case I will not be
releasing the five Keith supplements as 'freeware' for inclusion on Bryan
Borich's Classic Traveller CD (due out in late '99 or thereabouts) as I had
originally intended. 

Although I have long felt that Traveller (and RPG's in general) have became
a niche market with limited interest, even I am suprised and disappointed
at this low turn-out. I now understand why Andrew and Bill have both told
me they are no longer interested in writing any new material for the
Traveller universe (or any other RPG) for the very reasons mentioned above.

In any event, I want to thank those who have ordered and let you know that
things are still on-track for the end-of-December release.  

Cordially,
Paul Sanders
Clans MacAlasdair, Comyn, and O'Delany.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 01:55:12 EST
From: GhanII@aol.com
Subject: Re: The Lost Files (Grand Explorations)

     Hi,
      Mike Mikesh's Grand Explorations draft is on the HIWG CD-Rom for those
who have it. It's located in the Hiwgdocs dir; file name: _001_01.txt.
      Later,
       Doug Snyder

    

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 12:21:43 +0000
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Statites (was jump masking)

At 15:57 11/11/98 +1100, Robert O'Connor wrote:
>Clive Essery wrote :-
>
>> is it possible to site a star-base in geo-stationary orbit
>> above the pole of a planet?

<snip>

>The only problem is that with current technology, you need to be about
>200 Earth radii away to keep the sail, etc. 'aloft'.

But in Traveller, 200 radii is exactly where you want the space station to be.

Phil Kitching

- --
  Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
 "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:45:49 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: More question

On Fri, 6 Nov 1998, N. Eric Phillips wrote:

> Simple question first:
> 
> 1. How do you pronounce "Ine Givar?"

The German pronounciation (i.e. mine) would be 'Eeh-ne Gee-vahr'
Traveller always was multilingual for me. So we will stay IMTU for this
post:

> Now the Jump drive questions:
> 
> 2. Can you do an EVA while in jumpspace?

Only if you stay in the N-Space Bubble. But there always is the
possibility
of radiation - so it's not good to do this a long time.

> 3. What do you see out the window while in a jump?

The silverish inside wall of a big bubble in mercury-like environment
(covered from Stargate). Depends on who built the Jump drive

> 4. Is the J-Drive actually working while in Jump Space or does it just work
> to get you to "break on through to the other side" )as Jim Morrison might
> say) then it goes cold and you wait for natural forces to dump you back into
> normal space?

As J-Space follows other physical laws than N-Space, the Jump drives are
needed to maintain the Bubble of N-Space around the ship. Changing Course
or shorten time is impossible (exeptional by misjumping ... did
Grandfather know how to make a directioned misjump?)

> 5. Can you force an emergency exit from jumpspace?

no. njet. nada. nie im leben. ne pas possibile. nis maith.

L.A.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1124
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, November 11 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1125



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: One-week jump theory (was: more question)
Interesting GURPS Traveller errata change
RE: low, fast and LOUD (off topic)
Re: The Lost Files
Re: The Lost Files
Re: Low, fast and LOUD (off-topic)
RE: T5
Re: T5 Discussion Draft
re: The Lost Files
SV: Traveller Webring
Re: More question
Re: Order
Re: greater range = greater chance of success?
Re: Incendental effects of damage
Re: Kryptonian Strephon
Re: Kurishdam/Arts and Entertainment: Beam Dancing
Re: The excellent Medicine In Traveller articles
Re: T5
Re: Rail Guns
Re: T5
[OT] Remembering the reason behind the holiday
Ship Design question
Re: greater range = greater chance of success?
Star Wars (OT, but neat)
TNE SKILLS
Re: T5

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 14:03:02 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: One-week jump theory (was: more question)

On Sun, 8 Nov 1998, Craig Berry wrote:

> My model is that entering jump is in some ways analogous to firing a shell
> along a fixed trajectory.  Once you apply the initial impetus (enter jump,
> expending a bunch of energy at once), you're on a fixed 'trajectory' which
> will intersect real space again in a week.  Nothing you can do while in
> j-space will change your trajectory.
> 
> It happens (canonically) that the only known way to make a jump work is to
> enter on the one-week trajectory.  In a TU I used to run, I added that
> researchers had discovered other trajectories that took around 50 days,
> around a year, around 7 years, and so forth.  Other than the time spent in
> j-space, these were identical to normal jumps.  Obviously, they're not
> very useful!  Hitting one of them was a rare form of misjump, however.
> Also, some researchers thought the 'higher' trajectories might make
> controlled jumps greater than 6 possible, though nobody had managed it at
> the time my game was set.

Good SF explanation, it pleases me as a scientist, too. I'll take this for
an explanation of time consuming in Jump-Space.

I add a wavemechanics-like version for differences between the j-1
to j-6 routes. each of the found ones resembles an own jumpspace, which,
like the vibrations of a wire applied at two points, can overlay and
combine to standing waves.

For the fans of quantum mechanics: if you describe jumpspace in terms of
wavefunctions, J-Space 1 belongs to the first eigenvalue, and J-Space 6
belongs to the sixth.

The small differences in place and time oberved when exiting Jumpspace
are explained by Heisenberg's uncertainty principle applied here.

Some jump physicians IMTU still discuss over these versions, and if there
are higher 'eigenvalues' of J-Space than 6.

Now, before this really gets weird, I'll close.

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:05:37 -0500
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: Interesting GURPS Traveller errata change

I'm probably a bit slow on this but...

I went back and looked at the latest version of the errata for GURPS
Traveller, dated 1998 November 05. I compared this to an earlier version I
had from October 3rd and noticed something interesting;

As we all know, the information for converting attributes was left out.
According to the october 3rd errata I have, this was a table (even though
it is referred to as a formula) which had GURPS stats being in the 5-15
range as compared to Traveller. This has now been altered to the formula
"GURPS Stat = Traveller Stat +3, adjusted at the GM's discretion". This
means that GURPS stats for converted Traveller characters now range from 4
to 18. I like this change, BUT...TNE characters were mostly based on 2d6-1
rather than 3d6. Therefore, shouldn't the formula for TNE characters be TNE
stat +4 (except for Soc)? Otherwise, converted TNE characters will come out
universally one less than their CT/TNE/T4 counterparts.

This isn't a major deal for me, as when I start my GURPS TNE game, we'll be
rebuilding the characters to concept rather than straight converting
anyway, but I thought I would point it out.

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 17:09:40 +0400
From: Andy Long <andylong@emirates.net.ae>
Subject: RE: low, fast and LOUD (off topic)

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:14:34 , Michael Bailey <mickb@iinet.net.au>
wrote:
>>>>
I was privileged to see something similar last year when I was still
in air
traffic control.  Got to go up to Amberley and watch the F-111's strut
their stuff.  There's talk now of re-engining them with F110's and
keeping
them 'till 2020.
<<<<

Loud is right. I was in Brisbane in '88 at the Expo, and on the last
night (I think), they had a couple of F-111's doing a (well, not very)
low pass over the city. Just stooging around fairly slowly so no-one
knew they were there, and then they folded back the wings and lit the
afterburners and stood them on their tails.....

In the words of some-one from a distant galaxy etc... *Impressive*

Andy Long

- - -------------------------------------------------------
Andy Long			andylong@emirates.net.ae
C/o ICL			andyl@icluae.co.ae
PO Box 7237			andrewlong@hotmail.com
Abu Dhabi			+971 (50) 641 8232 (Mobile)
United Arab Emirates	+971 (2) 274688 (Res/Fax)
				+971 (2) 335200 (Office)
- - -------------------------------------------------------


- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.5.3i for non-commercial use <http://www.pgpi.com>

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 07:33:15 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: The Lost Files

Sanders wrote:
> 
> At 11:25 PM 11/10/98 +0000, you wrote:
> >The best we've had so far is Paul Sanders recovered Keith books.
> 
> Speaking of which -  I've only had 16 orders during a four month period,
> and considering that there are less than five weeks left in which to order,
> it's starting to look highly unlikely that I will reach the break-even
> point (70-80 orders). If this turns out to be the case I will not be
> releasing the five Keith supplements as 'freeware' for inclusion on Bryan
> Borich's Classic Traveller CD (due out in late '99 or thereabouts) as I had
> originally intended.
> 
I've obviously missed hearing about this.  Please repost the details
about these books.

<<snip>>

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 07:25:00 -0700
From: Sanders <timmon@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: The Lost Files

At 07:33 AM 11/11/98 -0600, you wrote:
>I've obviously missed hearing about this.  Please repost the details
>about these books.

Email me (rather than the list) your snail-mail address and I'll send you a
catalog.

L8r,
Paul

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 00:25:05 +1000 (EST)
From: JEFFREY MALONE <j1.malone@student.qut.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Low, fast and LOUD (off-topic)

Hmmm...re the message about the Canberra...if you know anything about
current EW, this strikes one as _very_ implausable, and then some.

Regards

Borisk Kalashnikov

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:29:05 -0500
From: "Bob Sanders" <bsanders@amghome.com>
Subject: RE: T5

<LURK MODE OFF>

Marc,

As a long time supporter of the game/vision of Traveller, I support all that
you are doing.  Keep up the good work!

As a consultant to the advertising and marketing world I would be willing to
help in any way you may need.

Bob Sanders

<LURK MODE ON>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:47:23 -0600
From: "Christopher B. Thrash" <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: T5 Discussion Draft

> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 00:32:36 EST
> From: CardSharks@aol.com
> Subject: T5
> 
> Discussion Draft
> New To T5. 
> 
> Cards. T5 introduces a variety of cards (commonly 2.5 x 3.5) for
Equipment,
> Weapons, Vehicles, Ships, Characters and NPCs, etc. These cards make data
for
> players and game masters alike easy to reference and use.
> 

Purely personal preference, but:

I never liked the cards as included in T:2000 or T4's Emperor's Vehicles. 
I found them terribly difficult to use for reference, my players wouldn't
touch them, and they take up a tremendous amount of page space that could
be better used elsewhere.  I would sincerely prefer one well-designed blank
card form (per type) and matching charts and tables, i.e., put the
information in the same order on both to facilitate transferring.  The TAS
Forms from CT not only presented the information they contained in a useful
fashion, but also provided some nifty props ("Hand over your Ship's Papers,
Captain!").

Respectfully,

Chris

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:49:34 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: re: The Lost Files

>In any event, I want to thank those who have ordered and let you know that
>things are still on-track for the end-of-December release.
>
>Cordially,
>Paul Sanders
>Clans MacAlasdair, Comyn, and O'Delany.

E-mail me the pricing information and whatnot, don't bother with snailmail
as I'd probably get it way past the deadline.
And to all other listoids out there: Order these Keith books! Judging from
the usefulnes of LOM compared to most stuff that was put out for T4 I'd say
its the best that happened to Traveller since way back...


/Anders Backman
Game developer and Lead Kibitzer at Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:08:03 +0100
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=F6ran_Damberg?= <damberg@hem.passagen.se>
Subject: SV: Traveller Webring

Yes, 

the webring homepage is temporarily down. I have lost the account on the server
where it was hosted (sigh). I'll post further info here, and to all webring
members when it's back online.

Sorry for any inconvenience,
Goeran

- -----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Från: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Till: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>; hiwg-twg@qrc.com <hiwg-twg@qrc.com>
Datum: den 10 november 1998 19:06
Ämne: Traveller Webring


>Just a quickie....
>
>Has the Traveller Webring's homepage gone down? I've tried to access it
>through a coupl of different servers, and no joy so far.
>
>Dom
>
>------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
>"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
>that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
>You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
>'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
>MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:11:03 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: More question

>The silverish inside wall of a big bubble in mercury-like environment
>(covered from Stargate). Depends on who built the Jump drive

Nope, you see the blackest black possible. This is no pesky 3 K black we
have when looking at a part of the sky free of stars, this is black in all
wavelengths. Any kind of chromish, silvery look would melt the ship in much
less than 1 week as all radiated heat would bounce back. IMTU.


/Anders Backman
Game developer and Lead Kibitzer at Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:14:27 -0700
From: Sanders <timmon@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Order

At 10:59 PM 11/11/98 +0800, you wrote:
>>Speaking of which -  I've only had 16 orders during a four month period,
>
>
>Make that 17...
>
>
>could you let me know the price and address?

There are five Andrew Keith supplements (and an extra 'freebie' booklet for
each). They are $20 each or the set for $100 (The set comes with an
additional 'freebie' - Imperial Calendar by Bill Keith). The supplements are:

1) Faldor - World of Adventure
2) Letter of Marque - Rogues in Space I
3) Scam - Rogues in Space II
4) Starport Planetfall
5) Arctic Environment

Surface postage is included in the price - however, if you want your order
sent first-class, please include an additional $5. I need to receive all
orders (i.e. payment) by Dec. 15th as that is when the actual printing
starts. Please send your orders to:

Paul Sanders
1316 West 2nd Ave.
Apache Junction, AZ 85220
USA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 07:30:04 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: greater range = greater chance of success?

At 10:29 PM 11/10/98 -0700, you wrote:

>Let's say that I'm shooting someone at very short range. My "to hit"
>task is Average (2D). Now, let's say that my opponent is wearing battle
>dress, and I have a handgun. There's just no way I'm penetrating that
>kind of armor.
>
>So, in a flash of brilliance, I run away. I run to, oh, say medium
>range. I start shooting at him from this range. My task difficulty is
>now formidable (3D). Can I hit him? Nope, unless I get spectacular
>success.

You can get Spectacular Success on 2D by rolling a natural 2. (T4 pg. 50)

- --

Douglas E. Berry
Pawn of the Droyne Conspiracy.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

UTUP: 0304 B-662D37B-5-5-2

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 07:42:25 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Incendental effects of damage

At 08:46 PM 11/9/98 EST, you wrote:

>Isn't there a much larger chance of infection, etc if the bullet is stuck in
>the body?  It would certainly necessitate surgery for removal... also in
>this same vein, aren't exit wounds much more severe or should this be
>considered as part of hte total damage?  Maybe less damage if theres no exit 
>wound?

Depending on the round, there may be no visable difference between entrance
and exit wound.  A NATO 7.62mm round will tend to punch staright through
tissue, leaving a clean wound at both ends (unless it hits something hard,
like bone).  A 5.56mm round will tumble, leaving a large, jagged wound
cavity and exit point.  Infection is a factor of the local environment, how
quickly aid is recieved, and what part of the body is hit (Damage to the GI
tract is almost guarnteed to cause a massive infection as all the faun
scream "we're free" and run wild.)  Since the number of holes in the body
isn't a big problem compared with the damage to internal organs and
structures, the presence or absence of exit wounds shouldn't affect the raw
amount of damage.

<snip>

>This is more of a question of incidental effects of damage... broken bones,
>etc for melee (i'm just converting over the house system i use for ad&d, so
>far), but what about other weapons?  Gauss weapons?  I'm envisioning a
>doctor picking these things out like cactus needles <g>or a guy that looks
>like an overgrown thimble...  Also what about plasma/fusion weapons?  Some 
>pretty severe burns, assuming the victim isn't completely destroyed (like 
>wounds from such while wearing combat armor or battle dress).

I always try to do these things on the fly..  If an attack does a great
deal of damage, I might declare that the character has a shattered femur or
somesuch.

Gauss weapons are just very advanced slugh throwers.  In ACQ (which is
almost finished, I swear!!) all Gauss weapons are armor-piercing, so the
wound channels will be fairly neat and clean, althought the light needles
will tend to tumble.

High Energy Weapons are very nasty.  A big problem is that they are going
to flash heat your bodily fluids to steam.  I really don't see how an
unarmored man could survive a HEW hit anywhere but the extermeities.
- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 07:45:26 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Kryptonian Strephon

At 05:19 PM 11/10/98 -0500, you wrote:

>Yea, I realised my mistake after I sent it off.  But the Jump-6 wheelchair
>would be useful.  Didn't that guy jump off a building to his death?

Shot himself.

(Sick aside: I was at a convention attending a panel on "Superheroes in the
Media", and we were discussing the George Reeves Superman.  After viewing a
few of his scenes, one of the panelists commented on his suicide by
gunshot.  someone in the auidence quipped "are you sure he didn't just
throw the gun at himself?")
- --

+------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+------------------------------------+
|  111     Embrace Fascism.     111  |
|  |||  The uniforms look cool  |||  |
+------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 07:49:01 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Kurishdam/Arts and Entertainment: Beam Dancing

At 11:29 PM 11/9/98 GMT, you wrote:
>Beam dancing started out as a techno-fad in colleges on Terra.
>It rapidly spread throughout the Solomani Rim and the Domain of
>Sol, and from there into the rest of the Imperium.  Today, it is
>considered a mainstream art form throughout the Imperium, and it
>is not unknown outside it.

Nice!  this goes into my "cool background stuff" file.

In other odd music news, Todd Rundgren has started experimenting with
hooking a MIDI up to an EEG.  He's working on a collection of music of the
mind by setting different brain waves to different insturments, and using
the subject's pulse for a beat.
- --

+--------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net  |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/    |
+--------------------------------------+
| "Oh, My God.. they killed STREPHON!  | 
|  You Bastards!!!!                    |
|                -Grand Admiral Kyle   |
+--------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:06:45 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: The excellent Medicine In Traveller articles

At 08:56 PM 11/10/98 +1300, you wrote:

My computer ate my copy.  does anyone have the complete set they could
email me?
- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+-------------------------------------+
| "Some days, you just can't get rid  |
|  of a bomb!"                        |
|     -Adam West, the REAL Batman     |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:05:46 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: T5

At 12:32 AM 11/11/98 EST, you wrote:
>Discussion Draft

>What is in T5?

<snip>

>The rules structure will support all milieux, although it will provide
>examples and details for one milieu (probably M:0, and probably set in the
>Antares sector).

Using the M:0 setting again might turn off people who were (to be honest)
burned by T4.  The idea that they are going to have to buy yhte same
setting all over again might drive away some potential sales.  How about
the time just after the Julain War, with the newly resurgent League of
Antares holding it's own against the humbled (and angry) Imperium.  Lots of
potential there.

<snip>

>New To T5. 
>
>Cards. T5 introduces a variety of cards (commonly 2.5 x 3.5) for Equipment,
>Weapons, Vehicles, Ships, Characters and NPCs, etc.

I assume that packs of these cards, both blank and with established data
are part of the plan?  I hate destroying the binding on my books to
photocopy something.

>Charts. The focus of T5 is the chart pages which detail how to do things
>succinctly and clearly. The rules text then gives examples and discussion of
>this material.

Something that is needed, both for the players and as a check on design
creep.  If it takes more than five or six steps, it's probably too complex.

>More Aliens in the General Population. As opposed to everyone being human.

Yes!

>Expanded system for wounds and fighting. Which allows for non-combat injury
>(accidents, cold, heat, vacuum, and such. This in turn opens the opportunity
>for weapons and devices which can impose damage other than just hits (so
>nukes can impose burns and radiation as well as blast). High tech weapons 
>can do the same.

I will avoid mentioning the combat system I've spent a year and a half
working on here....
- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:20:51 -0700
From: "Joseph Kimball" <HPJKimba@ihc.com>
Subject: Re: Rail Guns

>>>>
Legate Legion writes:
> 
> What would be the effect of a Mass Driver/Rail Gun/massice Gauss
Rifle in
> ship to ship combat in HG, MT, TNE, & T4?

Um...the practical upper limit for railgun velocity is maybe 10
kilometers per
second.  At this rate, your shots will take more than a turn to cross
a single
brilliant lances hex, and have essentially zero chance to hit any
enemy vehicle
at any significant range.  As such, the net effect is 'wow, you
wasted weight
and volume on a totally useless weapons system'.
>>>>
It may be a not-very-useful weapon for space combat, but as a turret
level weapon for defence against boarders or in ground actions it
might be quite useful.  On the other hand, a VRF Gauss gun spitting
out several thousand projectiles into the probable path of an enemy
ship could either make the other ship change couse or take some
surface damage assuming a minimal level of armor (degrading sensors or
Jump grids perhaps).
- - Joseph

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:32:17 -0700
From: "Joseph Kimball" <HPJKimba@ihc.com>
Subject: Re: T5

I feel like M:0 has already been done (at least to some extent).  I
would be more interested in having T5 be set in a different mileu.  My
suggestion would be the Civil War period.  The CW period has plenty of
adventuring opportunities as characters can choose to take the part of
any of several factions, or they can do many of the kinds of
adventures of M:1100 because there are large groups/areas in the CW
period who are sitting it out and carrying on with normal functions as
if the CW is not happening.  These comments are based on my
understanding of the CW period as put forth in various sources
(Library Data, Emperors List, etc.).
- - Joseph

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:31:27 EST
From: CPsyop@aol.com
Subject: [OT] Remembering the reason behind the holiday

Apologies from this new list member from diverging from the subject.  But I
just wished to ask that while those of us in North America go about our
business this week, we take a moment to reflect on why we have a holiday for
Veteran's/Rememberance Day.  For those that served, those that continue to
serve, and those gave their final service doing their duty, thank you.

Christopher Ruhl
SGT USAR
301st PSYOP Company (Airborne) 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:37:38 EST
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Ship Design question

	Greetings, 

	 Can anyone out there design a canonical, everyday Type S scout courier, with
the canonical performance specs (i.e. 100dt, Jump-2, 2-G Thrusters, etc..)
with FF&S2?  This may seem a silly question, but it meant in all seriousness.

	DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:54:39 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: greater range = greater chance of success?

dberry@hooked.net wrote:
> 
> At 10:29 PM 11/10/98 -0700, you wrote:
> 
> >So, in a flash of brilliance, I run away. I run to, oh, say medium
> >range. I start shooting at him from this range. My task difficulty is
> >now formidable (3D). Can I hit him? Nope, unless I get spectacular
> >success.
> 
> You can get Spectacular Success on 2D by rolling a natural 2. (T4 pg. 50)
> 

What about Easy tasks?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 12:01:08 EST
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Star Wars (OT, but neat)

	I just thought this might be of some interest...

	Lucasfilm has announced the release date and title of the next Star Wars
film; it is titled Episode 1: The Phantom Menace.  The date of release is May
21, 1999.  The first preview will be released in theaters next Friday, 20 Nov.
It stars Liam Neeson (as a Jedi Knight/Master??), Ewan McDaniel as Obi-Wan
Kenobi, Natalie Portman, and Jake Porter (from Jingle all the Way with
Schwarzenegger) as the young Anakin Skywalker.  All this info is located on
the Lucasfilm website (www.starwars.com).

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 12:01:02 -0500
From: Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil>
Subject: TNE SKILLS

I know we've moved on to T4 and soon to be T5, and I've had the pleasure
of seeing Marc's tasks and skill list for T5, but does someone have the
list of skills from TNE?  I've never seen them.  If you have such a
list, would you send it to me please?  Off list is fine....  Thanks.

Greg

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:10:20 -0600
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: Re: T5

>Discussion Draft


This sounds very cool. Please please pleeaasse get a publisher which knows
how to do good page layout and typesetting. The last one was, IMO, bad at
this.


>Structure: The central rules structure of T5 consists of [...] and an atlas.

<snip>

>The rules structure will support all milieux, although it will provide
>examples and details for one milieu (probably M:0, and probably set in the
>Antares sector).


So the atlas will be only good for Antares in M:0, or will it be good for
all milieux?


>T5 Contents: The T5 volume will contain the following rules sections

<snip>

>D. Every Adventure Begins and Ends At A Starport.


Is this the "How to run a sf-rpg game" section?


>New To T5.

<snip>

>More detached duty. As a result, naval characters can have ships and be part
>of the adventuring. So can scouts. And Scholars.
>
>Expanded system for wounds and fighting.

<snip>


Very nice. I _especially_ like these last two. I assume the cards are in
spirit similar to the DGP equipment sheets that were once available for MT.
Or are these more on the order of full-color playing cards (Traveller: The
Jumping???)?

If the typesetting and layout is nice, I could see purchasing this product
(unlike the IG products, which I did not). Even with the <ricken frackin>
half die.

Ciao,

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1125
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, November 11 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1126



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: One-week jump theory (was: more question)
Re: greater range = greater chance of success?
Re: The excellent Medicine In Traveller articles
Re: One-week jump theory (was: more question)
Re: Low, fast and LOUD (off-topic)
Re: The Lost Files
Jump limits
Re: Rail Guns
Re: Low, fast and LOUD (off-topic)
re: greater range = greater chance of success?
Re: T5
Re: Incendental effects of damage
re:Ship Design question
Re: T5
Re: T5
Re: T5
Re: T5 Discussion Draft
Re: T5
Re[2]: Incendental effects of damage

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:24:39 -0700
From: "Joseph Kimball" <HPJKimba@ihc.com>
Subject: Re: One-week jump theory (was: more question)

>>>>
> It happens (canonically) that the only known way to make a jump
work is to
> enter on the one-week trajectory.  In a TU I used to run, I added
that
> researchers had discovered other trajectories that took around 50
days,
> around a year, around 7 years, and so forth.  Other than the time
spent in
> j-space, these were identical to normal jumps.  Obviously, they're
not
> very useful!  Hitting one of them was a rare form of misjump,
however.
> Also, some researchers thought the 'higher' trajectories might
make
> controlled jumps greater than 6 possible, though nobody had managed
it at
> the time my game was set.
>>>>
I like this idea that the 7 day jump might have longer cousins.  I
ran some simple calculations on this idea and came up with the
following (based on 7^n days):
7 days
49 days
343 days (22 days short of a year)
2401 days (6 yrs and 211 days)
16807 days (46 yrs and 17 days)
117649 days (322 yrs and 119 days)
You would want a good supply of anagathics to try the 322 yr
version.
- - Joseph

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:13:20 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: greater range = greater chance of success?

dberry@hooked.net wrote:
> 
> At 10:29 PM 11/10/98 -0700, you wrote:
> 
> >So, in a flash of brilliance, I run away. I run to, oh, say medium
> >range. I start shooting at him from this range. My task difficulty is
> >now formidable (3D). Can I hit him? Nope, unless I get spectacular
> >success.
> 
> You can get Spectacular Success on 2D by rolling a natural 2. (T4 pg. 50)

Has this not been changed for T5? I thought that, in the drafts Marc's been
sending, you couldn't get spectacular success or failure less than a 3D task.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 98 17:49:53 +0000
From: igor@truserve.com
Subject: Re: The excellent Medicine In Traveller articles

FYI:

Robert has given me permission to post all of his _EXCELLENT_ medical articles on my
website. I am working on putting them up as we speak, and will notify the list once they
are up. They will be available in Robert's original text format, as well as a formatted
Adobe Acrobat format.

Andy 
igor@truserve.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:58:28 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: One-week jump theory (was: more question)

Joseph Kimball wrote:
> 
> >>>>
> > It happens (canonically) that the only known way to make a jump work is to
> > enter on the one-week trajectory.  In a TU I used to run, I added that
> > researchers had discovered other trajectories that took around 50 days,
> > around a year, around 7 years, and so forth.  Other than the time spent in
> > j-space, these were identical to normal jumps.  

If you wanted to make this somewhat useful, you could reduce the amount
of power and/or jump fuel required to enter a "longer" trajectory, thus
making this capability more attractive to small ships under certain
circumstances.

> > Obviously, they're not
> > very useful!  Hitting one of them was a rare form of misjump, however.

<<snip>>


> I like this idea that the 7 day jump might have longer cousins.  I
> ran some simple calculations on this idea and came up with the
> following (based on 7^n days):
> 7 days
> 49 days
> 343 days (22 days short of a year)
> 2401 days (6 yrs and 211 days)
> 16807 days (46 yrs and 17 days)
> 117649 days (322 yrs and 119 days)
> You would want a good supply of anagathics to try the 322 yr
> version.
> - Joseph

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:00:16 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Low, fast and LOUD (off-topic)

In a message dated 11/10/98 3:53:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
goldendj@pcisys.net writes:

<< Not quite--look for the EA-6B Prowler, a Navy aircraft now filling
 the joint service EW role, including AF pilots giong through the Navy
 training. >>

they are also on the way out....

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 14:16:34 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: The Lost Files

SD Mooney wrote:

> > I know this is a vain hope (I see  a  snowball
> >in a location populated by beings with pitchforks), but if anyone
> >is sitting on this material please, please, please could  me  see
> >it (either here or on a web site)?
>
> That depends on who owns copyright. Now, if IG haven't paid for work the
> commissioned I suspect the author still owns the rights, (Bloo?),
> especially if they put the copyright disclaimers in the work. I'd like to
> see some of that material (in addition, DGPs AI would have been nice) too.
> The best we've had so far is Paul Sanders recovered Keith books.

No pay = no contract = no transfer of copyright = author owns the copyright.

Remember that _any_ payment will probably justify the payment requirement
of the contract, so even if they gave 10 cents on the dollar, there was some
effective transfer.  While you might still have the copyright, a court case
would
be messy, long, and expensive.  (However, since IG isn't really a going
concern
any more, I would try to work out an arrangement

If you were _never_ paid _anything_, you probably have a good case to
sue IG for copyright infringement.  If such a suit were successful, I would
bet that you could either get (1) some portion of the contract fee; or
much more likely, (2) a declaratory judgment that you own the copyright
and are free to sell/publish/distribute the work as you feel.  In fact, thats
what I would probably do: seek a declaratory judgment that you own
the copyright still because there was no effective transfer.

Caveats:
- - If the contract says "Work for hire" in it, all bets are off.
- - I am not yet a lawyer, and considering how long they have taken to
    _not_ send me my results, I'm getting the feeling that I'm taking the
    test again in February (damn Massachusetts Probate law!).
- - Litigation is expensive.

Remember: Copyright only protects the particular expression of an
idea, not the idea or concept itself.  IMO, your easiest course is to
rewrite such things.  It might mean a lot of work, since you need to
rephrase the whole thing, but at least you've already developed the
ideas and know what you want to say.  Just change the way you
express those ideas.  And change all proper nouns original to the
work, i.e., if you made up a name that didn't come from previous
Traveller stuff.

Doing that, and getting a license from Mr. Miller to publish such
things, should make everything hunky dory.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:13:03 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Jump limits

Aren't most of the worlds in the Traveller universe within 100D of this
galaxy's mass?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:12:58 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Rail Guns

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com> wrote:

>Um...the practical upper limit for railgun velocity is maybe 10 kilometers per
>second.  At this rate, your shots will take more than a turn to cross a single
>brilliant lances hex, and have essentially zero chance to hit any enemy
>vehicle
>at any significant range.  As such, the net effect is 'wow, you wasted weight
>and volume on a totally useless weapons system'.

You could use them as a drive to help you evade - Hard Times has rules for
a MT MD drive system.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:12:53 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Low, fast and LOUD (off-topic)

"Peter L.S. Trevor" <ptrevor.trisen@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:

>Moral: Never underestimate something just because  its  old,  and
>remember your radio procedures.

On the underestimating front, look at the raid the RAFs Vulcan bombers made
on Port Stanley in the Falklands back in the early 80's. It may not have
had a major (logistical impact) but staging a strike from the UK using
tanker support! GDW's South Atlantic War supplement for Harpoon made me
realise just how much effort that took.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:12:46 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: greater range = greater chance of success?

Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com> wrote:

>In the T4 combat system as I understand it, the difficulty of the "to
>hit" task is a function of the range of the opponent. This gives rise to
>an interesting situation which I'd like your comments on.

Correct....

>Let's say that I'm shooting someone at very short range. My "to hit"
>task is Average (2D). Now, let's say that my opponent is wearing battle
>dress, and I have a handgun. There's just no way I'm penetrating that
>kind of armor.

Yes, average pistol does 3D damage.


>Because I can't get spectacular success at less than medium range, I'm
>into the absurd situation where my pistol can only penetrate battle
>dress when I'm at least 46 meters away! If I'm closer, then I can't hit
>him.

Skim reading T4's combat section I can't see anything on the spectacular
success affecting combat. However, a TL 10 BD has an armour value of 7R
(Rigid) which means you throw away 7D of damage, and then apply a maximum
of 3 remaining D against the victim. So a pistol, even with a double value
hit (assuming that's what a spectacular success does) would not penetrate.
A snub pistol might get a little through with the HEAP rounds (like the
cP003 with 5D).

Personally, I treat 3 ones whether on 2D and a 1/2 dice or 3D as spectacular..

>Am I getting the rules wrong? I don't actually have T4 (not having seen
>it available here in Calgary), so the only things I know about T4 are
>what Marc has graciously emailed me and what I've gotten from this list.

You seem to be confusing to hit and penetration.

You roll to hit - which is a function of range, not armour.

Then you roll damage which takes armour and size into account.

I don't see a problem - if you rolled two 1's with a 2D difficulty attack
you should still hit, unless the  characteristic + skill is really bad (ie
1!). You're just unlikely to penetrate combat/battle armour/dress, even
with an SS.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 14:15:11 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: T5

In a message dated 11/11/98 11:08:56 AM Central Standard Time,
yikes@evansville.net writes:

<< 
 So the atlas will be only good for Antares in M:0, or will it be good for
 all milieux?
 
  >>

The atlas remains to be thought out in order to handle various milieux. T5
basic rules should include an atlas of the Antares sector and world data
(circa 001-099) for the sector.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:12:22 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Incendental effects of damage

>Gauss weapons are just very advanced slugh throwers.  In ACQ (which is
>almost finished, I swear!!) all Gauss weapons are armor-piercing, so the
>wound channels will be fairly neat and clean, althought the light needles
>will tend to tumble.

<PLUG>
I've seen ACQ's drafts and it look great
</PLUG>

1 question. One of the MTJs explained that gauss weapons would be silent
(no sonic crack) but GT says they make a sonic crack. Wheich one is correct
(ISTR that Joe Fugate had talked to someone involved in designing that kind
of technology for the MTJ comment).

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:11:12 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re:Ship Design question

DustyLV769@aol.com wrote:

>	 Can anyone out there design a canonical, everyday Type S scout
>courier, with
>the canonical performance specs (i.e. 100dt, Jump-2, 2-G Thrusters, etc..)
>with FF&S2?  This may seem a silly question, but it meant in all seriousness.

Using QSDS I can't get the cost down enough - I'm not sure if the QSDS
discount of 25% is included in the final figure, nor the old style mass
production discounts...

Dom

- -----

This is a TL12 version using QSDS.....


Type S - Sulieman Scout-class Imperial Scout
Designed by Dominic Mooney

This starship was designed using the rules in the Quick Starship Design
System v1.5

UNIVERSAL SHIP DESCRIPTION

Tons 100            Volume 1400                   Cost in MCr 51.870
Crew: 5             High/Middle Passengers: 0/0
                    Low Passengers: 0
Cargo: 13 Std       Controls: Std                 TL: 12
8 Size
2 Jump Drive
2 Maneuver Drive (Thruster, 56 MW)
4 Power Plant
21.1 Fuel Rating/Scoops/Refining(24.0)
A2 P3 J0 Sensors
20 Armour, 10 Structure
Crew Detail:
Captain, 1 Engineer, 1 Electronic Technician, 2 Maneuver Crewmembers

DESIGN SPREADSHEET

Item                              Volume     Power      Area      Cost
Crew
HULL
Wedge A 100                                   26.9       5.4

DRIVES
Jump drive (2 parsecs)               3.0                12.6      14.0
0.1
Jump fuel for 2 parsecs             20.0

Thruster drive (2G)                  4.0      56.0      14.0      12.0
0.1
Power plants: 200MW x 1              7.1                20.0     200.0
0.2
Power plant fuel (1 year)            1.1

Fuel purification (24.0 hours)      24.0       5.0       0.1

ELECTRONICS
Standard Civilian Controls           1.7       1.3       9.2       0.3

Improved Sensors                     0.3      12.6       7.4      13.0
0.4
Basic Communications                           1.3       0.2      11.0
0.4
CREW
Captain

2 Maneuver Crewmembers

1 Engineer

1 Electronic Technician

WORKSPACE
5x Workstations                      2.5

Cargo Hold                          13.5

ACCOMODATIONS
4x Small Staterooms                  8.0       0.0       0.2

1x Large Stateroom                   4.0       0.0       0.1

TOTALS
                                    89.2     103.1      69.2     250.3
5.0

4 tons of cargo is an air raft bay


(Designed with QSDS: Traveller's Quick Starship Design Software. Copyright
Robert Prior, 1998)


Interestingly, the TL14 costs more!

Type S Sulieman 14-class Imperial Scout
Designed by Dominic Mooney

This starship was designed using the rules in the Quick Starship Design
System v1.5

UNIVERSAL SHIP DESCRIPTION

Tons 100            Volume 1400                   Cost in MCr 55.620
Crew: 5             High/Middle Passengers: 0/0
                    Low Passengers: 0
Cargo: 21 Std       Controls: Std                 TL: 14
8 Size
2 Jump Drive
2 Maneuver Drive (Thruster, 56 MW)
4 Power Plant
21.1 Fuel Rating/Scoops/Refining(24.0)
A2 P3 J0 Sensors
10 Armour, 6 Structure
Crew Detail:
Captain, 1 Engineer, 1 Electronic Technician, 2 Maneuver Crewmembers

DESIGN SPREADSHEET

Item                              Volume     Power      Area      Cost
Crew
HULL
Wedge S 100                                   27.3       4.4

DRIVES
Jump drive (2 parsecs)               3.0                12.6      14.0
0.1
Jump fuel for 2 parsecs             20.0

Thruster drive (2G)                  4.0      56.0      14.0      12.0
0.1
Power plants: 200MW x 1              7.1                20.0     200.0
0.2
Power plant fuel (1 year)            1.1

Fuel purification (24.0 hours)      21.0       4.2       0.1

ELECTRONICS
Standard Civilian Controls           1.7       1.6      15.2       0.2

Improved Sensors                     0.3      12.6       7.4      13.0
0.4
Basic Communications                           1.3       0.2      11.0
0.4
CREW
Captain

2 Maneuver Crewmembers

1 Engineer

1 Electronic Technician

WORKSPACE
5x Workstations                      2.5

Cargo Hold                          21.4

ACCOMODATIONS
4x Small Staterooms                  8.0       0.0       0.2

1x Large Stateroom                   4.0       0.0       0.1

TOTALS
                                    94.1     103.0      74.2     250.2
5.0

No description given.


(Designed with QSDS: Traveller's Quick Starship Design Software. Copyright
Robert Prior, 1998)

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 14:15:23 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: T5

In a message dated 11/11/98 11:08:56 AM Central Standard Time,
yikes@evansville.net writes:

<< >D. Every Adventure Begins and Ends At A Starport.
 
 
 Is this the "How to run a sf-rpg game" section?
 
  >>
This is a chapter about starports, and which incidentally establishes the
convention that an adventure starts here and should end here (or at another
starport). The starport text incudes information about places that you can get
rumors, meet people, etc.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 14:15:25 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: T5

In a message dated 11/11/98 11:08:56 AM Central Standard Time,
yikes@evansville.net writes:

<< 
 Very nice. I _especially_ like these last two. I assume the cards are in
 spirit similar to the DGP equipment sheets that were once available for MT.
 Or are these more on the order of full-color playing cards (Traveller: The
 Jumping???)?
  >>

The DGP cards/sheets were too big. These are intended to be manageable and
easily used. I would like them to be on playing card stock, but they'll
probably just be cut-out card stock to begin with.

Fopr the most part, they don't have illos, and so no color.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:20:54 -0800
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: T5

dberry@hooked.net wrote:

> Using the M:0 setting again might turn off people who were (to be honest)
> burned by T4.

I agree.  I think the main rule book in Traveller should be non-milieu specific.
It should sample a variety of time periods and have a variety of TL's  in it.

I evision this:  (Harkening back to the days of old CT) The core rule books (core
rules, FF&S, starship combat boxed set, etc) could all be done in black covers.

With M0, all of those covers are done in, let's say, red.  With M100, those are
all done in purple--etc.

OR...

If you're looking for a look akin to T4, you do all of the covers in black, but
change the piping/border color.  Remember, with T4, this was red.  Well, with T5,
the core rules are black covers with red trim.  The MO books are black covers
with orange trim.  The M1100 books are black covers with gold trim.

I like the color coding technique.  It reminds me of CT, and anybody can follow a
specific milieu through the colors.  If you didn't want to follow M0, then don't
buy the orange books.

Kenneth.

>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:22:55 -0800
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: T5 Discussion Draft

Christopher B. Thrash wrote:

> Purely personal preference, but:
>
> I never liked the cards as included in T:2000 or T4's Emperor's Vehicles.

I never used any card out of any Traveller game--not even the ones in the old
CT line.  As a matter of fact, Star Wars does this, and in my current game, I
don't use those cards either.

They don't bother me, but I don't find them useful either.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 14:34:41 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: T5

CardSharks@aol.com wrote:

> What is in T5?
>
> Structure: The central rules structure of T5 consists of a core rules book
> (T5), a companion, a technical architecture book (perhaps itself divided into
> three volumes… ships, equipment/weapons, and vehicles), and an atlas. Only T5
> will appear initially. Our intention is to develop the equivalent of FF&S
> intandem so that it expands T5 rather than supplants it.

This sounds great!  I hate the trend of some new RPGs to flood you with
supplements as soon as possible.  A tight and coherent set of core rules
with enough information to allow referees to develop their own settings
both canonical and otherwise would be welcome.

> New To T5.
>
> More Aliens in the General Population. As opposed to everyone being human.

Aliens are always welcome, but what about more variations on humaniti?
Especially for non-standard worlds. It seems to me that some stuff might
creep into or out of the DNA to create superficial changes.  I'm thinking
of things like skin-color, hair, vision, breathing, hearing, etc.  Probably not
for the 'recently' settled worlds, in terms of evolutionary time, but for the
other seeded worlds.

I think its the mention in M0 about Syleans having a much greater frequency
of Albinism and greater than average height that set me thinking in this
direction.
That and those Mexican boys that are totally covered in a thick coating of hair.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 98 11:23:14 pst
From: "Jesse Degraff" <Jesse_DeGraff@smtplink.acer.com>
Subject: Re[2]: Incendental effects of damage

     IMTU if the projectile is leaving the muzzle at supersonic velocities, 
     it makes a crack.  In the past I've had larger caliber, sub-sonic 
     gauss weapons used by CT (counter-terror) teams, etc.  I've also had 
     weapons with a Sonic/Sub-sonic switch on them.
     
     Jesse DeGraff
     www.vision-forge-graphics.com


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Incendental effects of damage
Author:  traveller@MPGN.COM at smtplink-acs
Date:    11/11/98 11:28 AM


>Gauss weapons are just very advanced slugh throwers.  In ACQ (which is 
>almost finished, I swear!!) all Gauss weapons are armor-piercing, so the 
>wound channels will be fairly neat and clean, althought the light needles 
>will tend to tumble.
     
<PLUG>
I've seen ACQ's drafts and it look great 
</PLUG>
     
1 question. One of the MTJs explained that gauss weapons would be silent 
(no sonic crack) but GT says they make a sonic crack. Wheich one is correct 
(ISTR that Joe Fugate had talked to someone involved in designing that kind 
of technology for the MTJ comment).
     
Dom
     
- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion 
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen. 
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." - 
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 
     
     

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1126
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, November 11 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1127



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Star Wars (OT, but neat)
Re: Scout/Courier and FF&S2
Re: CANON PROBLEM 3: The Kinunir Question 
Re: Incendental effects of damage
re: The Lost Files
Re my design challenge
Re: Incendental effects of damage
Re: greater range = greater chance of success?
Re: T5
Re: T5
Re: T5
T5: Cards
What shall we have for dinner?
Re: [OT] Remembering the reason behind the holiday
Re: T5
Re: More question
Re: greater range = greater chance of success?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 14:39:36 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Star Wars (OT, but neat)

DustyLV769@aol.com wrote:

>         I just thought this might be of some interest...
>
>         Lucasfilm has announced the release date and title of the next Star Wars
> film; it is titled Episode 1: The Phantom Menace.  The date of release is May
> 21, 1999.  The first preview will be released in theaters next Friday, 20 Nov.
> It stars Liam Neeson (as a Jedi Knight/Master??),

He's Qui-John Skywalker, IIRC.  Anakin's father, Luke's Grandfather.
And something of a mentor to OB1.

> Ewan McDaniel as Obi-Wan
> Kenobi, Natalie Portman, and Jake Porter (from Jingle all the Way with
> Schwarzenegger) as the young Anakin Skywalker.  All this info is located on
> the Lucasfilm website (www.starwars.com).

You forgot Samuel L. Jackson as Jedi Knight Mace Wendu: the first
Jedi to say "M----- F-----."   ;-)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 98 19:39:39 +0000
From: igor@truserve.com
Subject: Re: Scout/Courier and FF&S2

I can design a ship that performs as the scout/courier using FF&S - I _can't_ seem to
design one that costs as little as the s/c is supposed to cost.

My scout/courier ends up with:

100tons
Jump 2
2-G
1-G contra/grav
90 MW fusion plant
4 large staterooms
4 tons cargo
2 bridge stations
1 empty turret
4 ton minimal hangar
12.5 sensitivity passive sensor
8 sensitivity active sensor
Radio and laser commo
Computers and controls
ship's locker
purfication plant
batteries for 2 hour full power use

Cost: 36.02MCr with a 10% discount.

All of the cost is wrapped up in maneuver drive, jump drive, and power plant
(approximately 32MCr).

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 14:42:28 -500
From: "Jeff Beeler" <jabeeler@sleepy.ebtech.net>
Subject: Re: CANON PROBLEM 3: The Kinunir Question 

In the GDW game Fifth Frontier War the warrant is generic and can be 
used by any Imperial admiral in the game to assume top seniority.
Hence maybe the thing is blank until its filled in. 

> "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net> wrote
> 
> > > PROBLEM: How do we reconcile the differences in canon over the Kinunir?
>  
> > >The problem appears to be one of irreconcilable dates.
> > > REF 3.1: _Adventure 1: The Kinunir_ states that the ship was lost in 
> 
> > It was lost in 1088.  As of 001-1105, it hadn't been found, according 
> > to Adv 1. 
>  
> > > REF 3.3: The RSB and BTC also say that Norris obtained his Warrant 
> > >from the ship
> 
> > > POINT 3.2: If the Kinunir was lost before 1100, and Norris didn't  
> > > even ask Strephon for a Warrant until 1105, there is NO WAY that the 
> > > Kinunir could have been the ship that was delivering the Warrant.
> 
> > On Pg 22, the Captain's Cabin of the Kununir is noted to have an 
> > envelope with a signed Imperial Warrant in it.  This Warrant *could* 
> > be Norris' and not delivered 17 years late.  The book doesn't specify 
> > who it's made out for.  IIRC, I don't think Norris was even in power in 1088.
> 
> Norris became Duke in 1098 when his father died.  Prior to this point he
> had a career in Naval Intelligence.  I assume that Norris & Strephon met
> at this point when Norris had an assignment at Capitol/Core but this is
> not a necessary assumption.
> 
> What if the signed Imperial Warrant in the Captains cabin of the Kinunir
> is addressed to "The Duke of Regina"?
> 
> Imagine this scenario:  The Fourth Frontier War ends in 1084.  Strephon,
> at Capitol, gets the news in 1085.  He is not too impressed with the
> stalemate that ensued.  He is not really sure what to do about this so
> he mulls it over for a year or two.  In 1086 or 1087, after hearing good
> things about Norris's father, he decides to issue an Imperial Warrant to
> the then Duke (Norris's father) and sends it off on the Kinunir.  The
> Kinunir travels from Capitol/Core with the warrant. When the Kinunir is
> only a few parsecs from Regina it has some problems & gets stranded in
> the Shionthy Belt.  Strephon never knows that Norris father did not get
> the warrant.  Nobody else knows either, possibly Strephon gave it to the
> Kinunirs Captain in person or the courier who brought it to the Kinunirs
> Captain is not in a position to check up on it.
> 
> Then in 1104 or 1105 so Strephon gets the message from Norris asking for
> more power in case of a crisis.  Strephon responds "You can use the
> Imperial Warrant I sent your father in 1087, it says "The Duke of
> Regina" so you are entitled to use it."  Norris gets this message in
> 1105 or 1106.  He immediately says "_What_ Imperial Warrant?"  He then
> checks all his fathers papers (which may take months to make _sure_ it
> was not misplaced), confirms it never arrived and simultaneously has his
> staff start looking for it. 
> Either he finds it, is behind the PC's who find it in Adventure 1, the
> PC's find it on their own & give it to him (which I would like to think
> is their patriotic duty), or he learns about the PC's and gets it back.
> To keep canon consistent I would suggest that the PC's in Adventure 1
> find it as suggested in the adventure at the same time that Norris has
> discovered it is in the belt.  Norris's ship then jumps in & gets the
> ship from the PC's when they leave the wreck of the Kinunir. (which is
> also a cool way for them to meet him).  He then uses it, when needed, to
> sack Santanocheev.  Note that the PC's will have committed a High Justice
> crime by going on board the Kinunir in the first place so Norris now has
> them where he wants them for any other future items he needs taken care
> of (Unless your PC's don't mind being taken out and shot....) Which may
> be useful in a campaign.
> 
> Note that in this scenario Strephon has been a bit sloppy with an
> Imperial Warrant to not notice it was missing for _18_ years.  You can
> either assume that this 1) is necessary for the scenario 2) is about all
> the level of attention to detail that you can expect from any Emperor of
> Trillions 3) is an indication that Strephon has some problems (further
> indicated by MT's Rebellion) or 4) (my favorite) a bit of all of these.
> 
Otherwise these ideas sound OK to me.
Jeffrey Allan Beeler jabeeler@sleepy.ebtech.net

"The truth is out there you just have to know where to look!"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:46:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Incendental effects of damage

SD Mooney writes:
> 
> 1 question. One of the MTJs explained that gauss weapons would be silent
> (no sonic crack) but GT says they make a sonic crack. Wheich one is correct
> (ISTR that Joe Fugate had talked to someone involved in designing that kind
> of technology for the MTJ comment).
> 
GT is correct.  If it's supersonic, it makes a sonic crack.  If it's subsonic,
it might well be fairly quiet, but wouldn't have very impressive performance. 
However, needles might be quieter than standard bullets, since they have less
air resistance (this may be made up for by being faster, however).  What it
sounds like depends somewhat -- I suspect that a VRF gauss gun firing full auto
would make a low droning sound (frequency equal to its rate of fire), with a
distinct doppler shift if the stream of bullets is sweeping a position.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 20:56:16 +0100
From: "Jonas Karlsson" <Jonas.Karlsson@baldakinen.umea.se>
Subject: re: The Lost Files

> From: Sanders <timmon@primenet.com>
> At 11:25 PM 11/10/98 +0000, you wrote:
> >The best we've had so far is Paul Sanders recovered Keith books.
> Speaking of which -  I've only had 16 orders during a four month period,
> and considering that there are less than five weeks left in which
> to order,

You do, however have to remember that you're fighting one of the strongest
forces in the entire universe. Inertia. ;-) Speaking of which, I've carried
around a filled out letter for several weeks now, all it needs is for me to
spend an hour at the bank to get one of those (#/)"(#% international checks
filled out. And, seeing as how I have to go the bank anyway tomorrow, the
change of me getting it done tomorrow approaches 50/50...

So, you other slackers out there, get your checks in the mail! ;-)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:39:58 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re my design challenge

Actually, I shouldn't have used the term "Deep Mesons Guns", but rather,
"Fully Internal Meson Guns"

and as for 10MTd Needle configs... that's one helluva tunnel.

Hell, I got a pretty biog tunnel on a 100Td needle AF....

Meson Guns under FF&S1 are really (aside from power) quite potent... armor
penetration is immaterial, and bracketing the target was too easy under BL.
(All other beams simply require you put the beam through the target...
mesons require the burst IN the target).

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:aramis@gci.net> Note: All other E-mail addresses for me expire by
the end of november 1998!
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
UTUP 0309 6-7779577-5-5-2
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:47:49 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re: Incendental effects of damage

>Subject: Re: Incendental effects of damage
>Author:  traveller@MPGN.COM at smtplink-acs
>Date:    11/11/98 11:28 AM
>
>
>>Gauss weapons are just very advanced slugh throwers.  In ACQ (which is
>>almost finished, I swear!!) all Gauss weapons are armor-piercing, so the
>>wound channels will be fairly neat and clean, althought the light needles
>>will tend to tumble.
>
><PLUG>
>I've seen ACQ's drafts and it look great
></PLUG>
>
>1 question. One of the MTJs explained that gauss weapons would be silent
>(no sonic crack) but GT says they make a sonic crack. Wheich one is correct
>(ISTR that Joe Fugate had talked to someone involved in designing that kind
>of technology for the MTJ comment).
>
>Dom

Joe said something to that effect in one of the MTJ's. It is POSSIBLE to
stealth a bullet to get no sharp crack, if you can get it fast enough.... I
read several articles on this when I had a gun-nut roomate. Above mach 2,
the whole issue of sonic booms changes nature for small objects.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:aramis@gci.net> Note: All other E-mail addresses for me expire by
the end of november 1998!
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
UTUP 0309 6-7779577-5-5-2
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:29:51 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: greater range = greater chance of success?

SD Mooney wrote:
> Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com> wrote:
> >Let's say that I'm shooting someone at very short range. My "to hit"
> >task is Average (2D). Now, let's say that my opponent is wearing battle
> >dress, and I have a handgun. There's just no way I'm penetrating that
> >kind of armor.
> 
> >Because I can't get spectacular success at less than medium range, I'm
> >into the absurd situation where my pistol can only penetrate battle
> >dress when I'm at least 46 meters away! If I'm closer, then I can't hit
> >him.
> 
> Skim reading T4's combat section I can't see anything on the spectacular
> success affecting combat. However, a TL 10 BD has an armour value of 7R
> (Rigid) which means you throw away 7D of damage, and then apply a maximum
> of 3 remaining D against the victim. So a pistol, even with a double value
> hit (assuming that's what a spectacular success does) would not penetrate.
> A snub pistol might get a little through with the HEAP rounds (like the
> cP003 with 5D).
> 

True. So let's say that the person isn't wearing battle dress, he's wearing
something that as a rating of 4R. So my Average task can't hit him, but by
stepping away to 46 meters I can, if I get spectacular success. This situation
strikes me as odd.

> Personally, I treat 3 ones whether on 2D and a 1/2 dice or 3D as spectacular..

Your homegrown rule solves the problem for Difficult tasks. However, the problem
is still there for Easy tasks.

> You seem to be confusing to hit and penetration.

Possibly. Perhaps my error lies in assuming that, if you roll spectacular
success, you automatically hit and do damage.

So, this gives rise to another question. How do you handle spectacular success
in this kind of situation? I shoot a target at medium range, even though my gun
can't penetrate the armor. I roll spectacular success. So what?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 21:14:05 GMT
From: jzeitlin@cyburban.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Re: T5

On Wed, 11 Nov 1998 14:32:52 -0500, CardSharks@aol.com (Marc
Miller) wrote:

>In a message dated 11/11/98 11:08:56 AM Central Standard Time,
>yikes@evansville.net writes:

><< 
> So the atlas will be only good for Antares in M:0, or will it be good for
> all milieux?
>  >>

>The atlas remains to be thought out in order to handle various milieux. T5
>basic rules should include an atlas of the Antares sector and world data
>(circa 001-099) for the sector.

I would recommend that T5 maps include names, physical stats, and
presence/absence of gas giants and belts.  Data listings should
include all of the other information, which is potentially quite
mutable from era to era, or even within an era if the area/planet
is politically unstable.

A sample hex might look like this (magnified):

   _____
  / 867 \
 /   O  G\
 \      B/
  \Terra/
   ~~~~~


867    - the physical stats - Size, Atmo, Hydro
O      - the circle that represents the world itself, or the
         dotcluster if it's a belt
G      - if there are gas giants present in the system
B      - if there are planetoid belts (other than a mainworld
         belt) present in the system
Terra  - the name of the world

The data listing would match the current format (as established
in MT), with the possible exception of an expansion of the Base
field to accommodate multiple codes, so that one would not need
to use up codes on "combinations" of bases.  Three characters
should be sufficient (Naval, Scout, XBoat).  Bases should be
assumed to be appropriate for alignment, rather than needing
separate codes for each polity, so that a Zhodani Naval base
would be indicated by "N" on a Zhodani world, and an Imperial
Naval base would be indicated by "N" on an Imperial world.
Suggested codes:

N - Naval Base
S - Scout Base
D - Naval Depot
W - Scout Way Station
X - XBoat
M - Non-Naval Military Base
F - Fuel Dump/Deep Space Fueling Station

If there are any others (or any special cases) that need to be
addressed, expand as needed, obviously.

A _really_ nice touch would be to have the alignments/polity
boundaries and main communications routes on transparent plastic
overlays sized to match the map, but this _could_ run into bucks.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:01:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Roberto Camino <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: T5

- ---steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com> wrote:
>MM wrote: 
>> will appear initially. Our intention is
>> to develop the equivalent of FF&S
>> intandem so that it expands T5 rather than
>> supplants it.
> 
> This sounds great!  I hate the trend
> of some new RPGs to flood you with
> supplements as soon as possible.
> A tight and coherent set of core rules
> with enough information to allow
> referees to develop their own settings
> both canonical and otherwise would 
> be welcome.

Sounds like Traveller!  Destined to be a Classic, no doubt.  I have to
wait HOW long?  <sigh>  

Didja ever notice, when you're unemployed you have plenty of time to
persue your hobbies, but no money for such indulgences?  What's up
with that?

<rummaging around> I'd better order a new credit card, this one is
getting worn out. <light bulb>  Hey buddy, can ya spare a Gold Card?
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:34:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Roberto Camino <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: T5

- ---Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com> wrote:
>I think the main rule book in Traveller
>should be non-milieu specific. It should
>sample a variety of time periods and
>have a variety of TL's  in it.

I second this motion.  I have tons of CT M:1105 stuff that I WILL be
playing in this new system.  I want the core books not to get in the
way of this.  By the same token, I have non-canon stuff and M:0
scenarios as well.  I want to use the same character, task and
equipment rules for all, if possible, but not have to answer the
"canon" questions if I don't choose to.  Much easier if the core rules
contain the least number of historical / milieu information.


> If you're looking for a look akin to T4,
> you do all of the covers in black, but
> change the piping/border color.  
> Remember, with T4, this was red.  Well,
> with T5, the core rules are black covers
>with red trim.  The MO books are black covers
> with orange trim.  The M1100 books are
> black covers with gold trim.
> 
> I like the color coding technique.  It
> reminds me of CT, and anybody can follow
> a specific milieu through the colors.
> If you didn't want to follow M0, then don't
> buy the orange books.
> 

Best idea yet.  Licensees could follow the color code conventions,
too, making it easier to determine what goes with what.  I'd suggest
lining up T5 licensees now to debut adventures at T5's launch.  The
republishing of CT product, too.  Would spread the marketing across
several companies, rather like software companies launching new
versions at the same time a new operating system comes out.  I'm not
suggesting that we change the name to "Microsoft Miller's Traveller",
but successful marketing is as successful marketing does.


==
- ------------------------><>------------------------
IMTU 0601 tc++ tm !tn t4+ ?tg ru++ 3i pi ta+ he+ 

=>UTUP 0309 0-400A04C-5-8-2<=

You might be a Traveller fanatic if...
your resume includes a UPP and skill listing!
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 98 16:01:02 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: T5: Cards

On 11/11/98 at 02:15 PM,  CardSharks@aol.com said:

>The DGP cards/sheets were too big. These are intended to be
>manageable and easily used. I would like them to be on playing card
>stock, but they'll probably just be cut-out card stock to begin with.

>Fopr the most part, they don't have illos, and so no color.

I did something like this with CT stats for weapons, equipment and
vehicles *way* back, must have been 78-79.  I used unruled 3x5"
index cards for the weapons, most equipment, and small vehicles.
For major vehicles and locations, ie ships and buildings, I had
letter sized sheets of paper, not cards.  I remember spending hours
typing them up on an old manual typewriter.  ;->

If the PC had a weapon (or piece of equipment), he had a *specific*
card for that *specific* weapon and as he used it he refered to that
card.  On one side was the name of the weapon (and on some an
illo..I'm no artist, so I let the players "customize" the card for
*their* weapon with an illo if they wanted ;), and on the other was
all the details of that weapon's use and current condition.

We used them a *lot* in the games I ran back then.  I'd hand out
cards to the players for each weapon and piece of equipment their
character had, if they didn't have the card, they didn't have it and
couldn't use it.  If the character had that equipment/weapon, but
didn't have it in hand, it was placed face down (just the name
showing) in front of the player, if he had it in hand, it was face
up (details showing). If he dropped the weapon he gave the card to
the GM.  If he gave it to someone else they put the card in front of
them.  If it was stored away in some vehicle or location it was
(supposed to be, but I never really worked this part out to my
satisfaction) with the sheet for that vehicle or location.  The
vehicles were generally group used, so whatever vehicle they were
using was placed on the table and the others were kept in my
notebook, same for buildings.

The details on the cards included range, characteristic, and other
DM's, damage values, ammo (where appropriate), and any custom
details about that weapon/equipment.  For guns there were
ammo/charge boxes the player marked off as the gun was loaded, and
erased as he fired.

I remember this worked pretty well, as long as the cards held up.

Laminating didn't work too well, so the cards got dog-eared,
badly eraser marked on the ammo tracks, greasy from fingers, and
then there was the great soda spill of '80.  ;-> Replacing them in
those days was a manually-royal pain, too, so I didn't have many and
quickly ran out of cards for the popular weapons.

I've still got what's left of them in a baggie buried in my "Big
Chest'O Games."  Now that I've got computers, scanners, and printers
I should get them back out, revise and reprint them for whatever
system I'm currently using. Dang they *were* a good idea!

IAC...my opinion on cards...good idea, can be a great one if done
well.  I *would* make the weapon/equipment, character, and vehicle
cards different sizes.  Different sizes will make it easier to
collect and sort them by function.  I'd also make them big enough to
be easily read and marked on during use.  I remember having lots of
blank cards that I could scribble on during play too, for equipment
that I hadn't already planned out, so bank forms are a good idea
too.  These cards will be consumables, so replaceing them should be
easy and inexpensive.


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 17:13:30 EST
From: StevenA201@aol.com
Subject: What shall we have for dinner?

I'm getting ready to start up a campaign, and I've run into a little snag.
What do people eat while in jump?  How is it prepared?  I don't see a kitchen
on any of my deckplans!

For that matter, what do we wear?  I also can't find a washing-machine.
Disposable clothing, perhaps?
  --S

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 14:25:45 -0800
From: "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@home.com>
Subject: Re: [OT] Remembering the reason behind the holiday

>Apologies from this new list member from diverging from the subject.  But I
>just wished to ask that while those of us in North America go about our
>business this week, we take a moment to reflect on why we have a holiday
for
>Veteran's/Rememberance Day.  For those that served, those that continue to
>serve, and those gave their final service doing their duty, thank you.
>
>Christopher Ruhl
>SGT USAR
>301st PSYOP Company (Airborne)

Thank you

I'm for to talk to some vets up here after parade

Wayne Ewart
MS/CD CF(Navy)
HMCS Nanaimo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 00:30:44 +0200 (EET)
From: Eppu Tuominen <eptitu@utu.fi>
Subject: Re: T5

On Wed, 11 Nov 1998 CardSharks@aol.com wrote:

> 
> The game system should be
> understandable and easily playable, incorporate multiple levels of complexity,
> mesh with the real world (in so far as is possible).
 
 So does this mean you will no longer insist on censoring
"sexually-flavored content" from the game? What I really hated about this
comment was the implicit statement, that violence is acceptable if you
really really have to, but sex is something people just don't do. (Refers
to T4 rulesbook p.5 goal #5)

> Structure: The central rules structure of T5 consists of a core rules book
> (T5), a companion, a technical architecture book (perhaps itself divided into
> three volumes… ships, equipment/weapons, and vehicles), and an atlas. Only T5
> will appear initially. Our intention is to develop the equivalent of FF&S
> intandem so that it expands T5 rather than supplants it.

 Sounds good basically. Could we just please have the core rules in boxed
format (even if just as a special edition), with the subject arrangement
maybe conforming to CT. Big books (such as TNE) are hard to handle around
gaming table and break easily.

> The rules structure will support all milieux, although it will provide
> examples and details for one milieu (probably M:0, and probably set in the
> Antares sector).

 Antares sector sounds like an interesting place, just place it a bit
further along in the Imperial history, and don't call it Milieu:0. I agree
with the many comments stating that this could deter potential customers.
 Also please do include a map and uwp/library data of the chosen sector in
the core rules set. Both TNE and T4 made the mistake of not doing this. It
makes getting started enormously more difficult.
 
> D. Every Adventure Begins and Ends At A Starport.

 Now why does this sound like an old Infocom text adventure to me? 
 
> Cards. T5 introduces a variety of cards (commonly 2.5 x 3.5) for Equipment,
> Weapons, Vehicles, Ships, Characters and NPCs, etc. These cards make data for
> players and game masters alike easy to reference and use.
 
 A workable idea, as long as the card sheets are not attatched to the 
books. Nobody likes savaging the nice new book they just paid top dollar
for.
 
> More Aliens in the General Population. As opposed to everyone being human.

 I support this. I suggest paying more attention to human minor races. I
think some of them might be _very_ different from Solomani stock.
 
> Tasks integrated into everything. Rather than just tacked on.

 If this means leaning more towards the MT task system I like it. Just
give it some more resolution. (And skip the half-die.)
 
> Expanded system for wounds and fighting. Which allows for non-combat injury
> (accidents, cold, heat, vacuum, and such. This in turn opens the opportunity
> for weapons and devices which can impose damage other than just hits (so nukes
> can impose burns and radiation as well as blast). High tech weapons can do the
> same.
 
 If you really want to discourage unnecessary violence, I suggest making
the combat system as gruesomely realistic as possible. (You take a .357
hit to unarmored chest, you're wormfood.) At least in our games this has
done wonders to making PC:s think twice about hauling out a piece. 

- -------------
Eppu Tuominen
eptitu@utu.fi
- -------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:40:18 +1000
From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au
Subject: Re: More question

>Hmm...   If this is the case, then there MUST be a way to make your life
>support stretch for up to six weeks without recharge, or else a misjump
>would be a death sentence for the crew.
>
>On that logic, there must be a way to make your life support work for up
>to six times the normal number of people for one week if necessary.

Hmmm. I think you are assuming that since there are reportedly crew who
have survived a misjump that life support must be able to be -stretched- to
accommodate them for longer periods in an emergency. Not necessarily so.
The figures also work the other way. Less crew members equals more weeks of
life support for the remainer.

Have you read "The Cold Equations," by Tom Godwin, published in 1954? It's
a classic story, somewhat chilling, about a stowaway on a spacecraft that
has a limited fuel & air supply. The unalterable laws of physics determine
that there are resources for only one person to survive.

*ObTrav* Maybe not - all - of your crew can last the six weeks from a
misjump. Your crew will have to make some hard choices if any of them are
to survive (short straws anyone?). Toughest bit will be that they don't
know just HOW LONG the misjump will last so it might be six weeks or it
might be less. They wouldn't want to do something *drastic* just before
they unexpectedly pop out of jumpspace and into the hands of waiting
rescuers, would they?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 98 16:42:34 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: greater range = greater chance of success?

On 11/11/98 at 01:29 PM,  Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com> said:

>SD Mooney wrote:
>> Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com> wrote:
>> >Let's say that I'm shooting someone at very short range. My "to hit"
>> >task is Average (2D). Now, let's say that my opponent is wearing battle
>> >dress, and I have a handgun. There's just no way I'm penetrating that
>> >kind of armor.
 
>> >Because I can't get spectacular success at less than medium range, I'm
>> >into the absurd situation where my pistol can only penetrate battle
>> >dress when I'm at least 46 meters away! If I'm closer, then I can't hit
>> >him.
 
>> Skim reading T4's combat section I can't see anything on the spectacular
>> success affecting combat. However, a TL 10 BD has an armour value of 7R
>> (Rigid) which means you throw away 7D of damage, and then apply a maximum
>> of 3 remaining D against the victim. So a pistol, even with a double value
>> hit (assuming that's what a spectacular success does) would not penetrate.
>> A snub pistol might get a little through with the HEAP rounds (like the
>> cP003 with 5D).

>True. So let's say that the person isn't wearing battle dress, he's
>wearing something that as a rating of 4R. So my Average task can't
>hit him, but by stepping away to 46 meters I can, if I get
>spectacular success. This situation strikes me as odd.

<snip>

>> You seem to be confusing to hit and penetration.

>Possibly. Perhaps my error lies in assuming that, if you roll
>spectacular success, you automatically hit and do damage.

Erwin, I think your assumption is incorrect, RW, but is probably
pretty close in the game rules.  I think the spectacular success
(SS) / spectacular failure (SF) procedure has some problems.

First, let me put in a plug for SS being whenever you make a roll by
more than some number and SF being whenever you fail a roll by more
than some number.  Six sounds like a good number to me...make your
roll by 6 or more and it's spectacular. 

Example:  Joe has a target number of 9, he has to undertake a
task that is... 

 Easy       (1d)   -- 1-3 SS; 4-6 success
 Average    (2d)   -- 2,3 SS; 4-9 success; 10-12 failure
 Difficult  (2.5d) -- 3 SS; 4-9 success; 10-14 failure; 15 SF
 Formidable (3d)   -- 3 SS; 4-9 success; 10-14 failure; 15-18 SF
 Staggering (4d)   -- 4-9 success; 10-14 failure; 15-24 SF
 Hopeless   (5d)   -- 5-9 success; 10-14 failure; 15-30 SF

...or something like that.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1127
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, November 11 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1128



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: T5
Re: What shall we have for dinner?
Re: What shall we have for dinner?
Re: What shall we have for dinner?
[OT] MPGN ownership (off-topic)
Re:  What shall we have for dinner?
RE:  What shall we have for dinner?
Re: What shall we have for dinner?
Vilani Hypothesis: A Tale of Lost Treasure  (Was Re: The Lost Files) (Long)
Re: Jump limits
Re: greater range = greater chance of success?
Re: T5
Re: What shall we have for dinner?
Re: T5
Re: What shall we have for dinner?
Re: T5
Re: Vilani Hypothesis: A Tale of Lost Treasure  (Was Re: The Lost Files)  (Long)
Re: Scout/Courier and FFS2

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 98 16:50:59 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: T5

On 11/11/98 at 09:14 PM,  jzeitlin@cyburban.com (Jeff Zeitlin) said:

>I would recommend that T5 maps include names, physical stats, and
>presence/absence of gas giants and belts.  Data listings should
>include all of the other information, which is potentially quite
>mutable from era to era, or even within an era if the area/planet is
>politically unstable.

>A sample hex might look like this (magnified):

How about a variation showing how *many* GG's and PB's are in a
system? That shouldn't change much from m to m. ;->
   _____
  / 867 \
 /   O  3\
 \      2/
  \Terra/
   ~~~~~


>867    - the physical stats - Size, Atmo, Hydro
>O      - the circle that represents the world itself, or the
>         dotcluster if it's a belt
>G      - if there are gas giants present in the system
>B      - if there are planetoid belts (other than a mainworld
>         belt) present in the system
>Terra  - the name of the world

>The data listing would match the current format (as established in
>MT), with the possible exception of an expansion of the Base field to
>accommodate multiple codes, so that one would not need to use up
>codes on "combinations" of bases.  Three characters should be
>sufficient (Naval, Scout, XBoat).  Bases should be assumed to be
>appropriate for alignment, rather than needing separate codes for
>each polity, so that a Zhodani Naval base would be indicated by "N"
>on a Zhodani world, and an Imperial Naval base would be indicated by
>"N" on an Imperial world. Suggested codes:

>N - Naval Base
>S - Scout Base
>D - Naval Depot
>W - Scout Way Station
>X - XBoat
>M - Non-Naval Military Base
>F - Fuel Dump/Deep Space Fueling Station

Or maybe...
       _____  
      / 867 \ 
     /3  O  2\
     \nsdwxnf/
      \TERRA/ 
       ~~~~~  
...of course no system would have *all* those codes.  ;-> And for a
milleu non-specific map that line should be empty.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:51:29 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: What shall we have for dinner?

StevenA201@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I'm getting ready to start up a campaign, and I've run into a little snag.
> What do people eat while in jump?  How is it prepared?  I don't see a kitchen
> on any of my deckplans!

<all comments are based on Traveller, 4th edition [T4] and Fire, Fusion
& Steel 2 [FF&S2]>
> 
Which design sequence do you use?  FF&S2 has specific items for both
food storage (volume based on quality of food, and number of weeks
provided) and galley space (Ordinary for Meager through Good rations,
Full for Good or Excellent rations).  Excellent rations require that the
head chef (at least) have skill of either Steward-4 or Cook-3 to gain
the full benefit of Excellent rations.  (I realize that T4 doesn't
include a Cook skill in the basic character generation.  However, FF&S2
[pg. 80] refers to Cook skill, so you may want to add it to your
campaign.  Alternately, simply assume that Cook skill equals Steward
minus 1.)

Otherwise (QSDS/SSDS), assume that food preparation (and dining area) is
a part of the applicable sized stateroom.  Thus, small stateroom space
allows for Meager through Good rations, and large staterooms allow for
Good and Excellent rations (assuming the appropriate Steward/Cook on
board).  Under QSDS/SSDS, figure that, in accordance with Table 211
(FF&S2), life support includes 2 weeks of Normal/Good rations, plus one
week of Emergency rations ("just in case").

> For that matter, what do we wear?  I also can't find a washing-machine.
> Disposable clothing, perhaps?
>   --S

Assume that a portion of the space in a stateroom is dedicated to
laundry-type services (washing, dry-cleaning, or [possibly in TL16+
settings] clothing replication).

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 00:55:18 +0200 (EET)
From: Eppu Tuominen <eptitu@utu.fi>
Subject: Re: What shall we have for dinner?

On Wed, 11 Nov 1998 StevenA201@aol.com wrote:

> I'm getting ready to start up a campaign, and I've run into a little snag.
> What do people eat while in jump?  How is it prepared?  I don't see a kitchen
> on any of my deckplans!

 Most ready deckplans come with a crew/passenger lounge marked (When
making your own this comes off the volume allocated for staterooms.)
A typical lounge would include a mini-galley. (Doesn't really take more
than 1 x 1.5m floor space.) Most typical food would be deep-frozen /  
de-hydrated rations in varying proportions. (Might depend on the propotion
of large/small staterooms, says the much more experienced Traveller GM
behind my back.) (and points out a typo  -da GM) The volume for food
storage would come out of life support volume.
 The real problem in our campaign (the one i'm _playing_ in) is not what
people eat, but what they drink. I can remember more than one jump that
turned into a 7 day drinking binge.

> For that matter, what do we wear?  I also can't find a washing-machine.
> Disposable clothing, perhaps?
>   --S

 You mean apart from skintight vacc suits on the busty babes? At least my
character tends to wear jeans shorts and a T-shirt. (With EPG laser pistol
holster and a fractal fighting knife, it's fun being a paranoid.)
 Seriously, most starships would have a stewards shop with washing/drying
machines. The volume for this could come out of life support and/or
stateroom volume. 

- -------------
Eppu Tuominen
eptitu@utu.fi
- -------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 98 17:09:24 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: What shall we have for dinner?

On 11/11/98 at 05:13 PM,  StevenA201@aol.com said:

>I'm getting ready to start up a campaign, and I've run into a little
>snag. What do people eat while in jump?  How is it prepared?  I don't
>see a kitchen on any of my deckplans!

I *always* include a galley and eating area.  The characters hang
out with each other a lot around the galley table or in some other
common's area.  Cabins are *tiny* with most of the space allocated
to common areas, like the galley, workout room, lounge, and so on.
OTOH, some people make the cabins larger and have the characters
stay in them, isolated from each other, most of the time.

>For that matter, what do we wear?  I also can't find a
>washing-machine. Disposable clothing, perhaps?

And where are the restrooms?  Do they keep a slop jar under their
bunk? ;->


Eris

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 18:15:54 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: [OT] MPGN ownership (off-topic)

WWW.OGR.COM reports today:

According to a press release today, Interactive Magic has
                   signed an agreement to buy the Internet gaming service
                   MPG-Net. I-Magic is expected to merge MPG-Net content
                   into its own iMagic Online service. As part of the
                   agreement, Interactive magic will inherit MPG-Net’s
                   contract to be the sole provider of the upcoming online
                   game service for Gamehub. [11:16 AM ET]
- ---------------------------

I know a fair amount of people at Interactive Magic and iMagic Online.
I have nothing but respect for them.  Lest anyone worry potential hassle
to the TML, iMOL serves its customers well.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:14:14 -0700
From: "Joseph Kimball" <HPJKimba@ihc.com>
Subject: Re:  What shall we have for dinner?

>>>>
I'm getting ready to start up a campaign, and I've run into a little
snag.
What do people eat while in jump?  How is it prepared?  I don't see a
kitchen
on any of my deckplans!

For that matter, what do we wear?  I also can't find a
washing-machine.
Disposable clothing, perhaps?
>>>>
On some deckplans (especially of larger ships) there is a
specifically labelled galley for food preparation.  On smaller ships
it would probably be built into a wall in common areas (almost every
ship has at least one of these).  I would assume washing-machines
would be either part of the freshers (aprox 1 per large stateroom), or
another wall mounted unit in a common area.
This is an interesting line of thought though.  I might have some
notes hiding at home I could post.
- - Joseph

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 17:17:23 -0600
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: RE:  What shall we have for dinner?

StevenA201@aol.com posted:
> 
> I'm getting ready to start up a campaign, and I've run into a 
> little snag.
> What do people eat while in jump?  How is it prepared?  I 
> don't see a kitchen
> on any of my deckplans!
> 
> For that matter, what do we wear?  I also can't find a 
> washing-machine.
> Disposable clothing, perhaps?

Nope. *Edible* clothing. (And that's all I'm going to say.)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 98 17:20:51 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: What shall we have for dinner?

On 11/12/98 at 12:55 AM,  Eppu Tuominen <eptitu@utu.fi> said:

> Seriously, most starships would have a stewards shop with
>washing/drying machines. The volume for this could come out of life
>support and/or stateroom volume. 

Sure, we can handwave effective "sonic cleaners" that vibrate
the...um nasty stuff...out of your clothes.  Go to your cabin, take
of dirty clothes, toss them into the "saniter" built into the wall,
turn it on and go to bed.  Next morning open the bottom drawer of
the saniter and pull out clean, fresh smelling and unwrinkled
clothes ready to wear. 

Hey!  Maybe *that's* where all the nanotech research ended up,
cleaning services!  ;->


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:23:10 -7
From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
Subject: Vilani Hypothesis: A Tale of Lost Treasure  (Was Re: The Lost Files) (Long)

On 10 Nov 98, at 7:37, Roberto Camino wrote:

> BTW, you left off The Vilani Hypothesis.  I did not get one (was on
> auto order with IG) so I assume it wasn't published either.

FWIW, I wrote Vilani Hypothesis.  It IS a finished manuscript, 
complete with maps.

Here's where it gets strange...

It was the last project I worked on for IG.  At the time I agreed to 
take on the work, I had not been paid for the last several projects, 
and IG was into my pockets personally for about $3000 worth of 
work.  Well realizing that if IG didn't sell more product I would 
probably never see dime one of what they were in arrears to me, I 
agreed to take the project on with the understanding that the 
property was to remain unpublished (and mine) until I was paid in 
full.  Needless to say, I've never seen the first dime, and therefore 
VH remains unpublished.

I submitted the manuscript in mid-January.  Two weeks to the day 
afterwards, IG let the license lapse (or Marc pulled it, I don't know 
which, and in hindsight, it really doesn't matter).  So I still have the 
only existing manuscript, and I honestly haven't decided what to do 
with it at this point.

One of the things I groused at upon being assigned the project was 
being squeezed into the 64 page format used in Annillilik Run 
(sp?), and the awkwardly cut in half TLWH/Gateway.  I had 
envisioned Vilani Hypothesis as a 108 page adventure, and indeed, 
had the outline mapped out for a 108 page work. I actually had to 
remove a lot of material I'd planned to squeeze it to 64 pages.  

Obviously, I have no permission to publish or release it in any form 
without the permission of Marc Miller.  For the moment in the hope 
that it might have a chance to see the light of day when T5 is 
published, I will hang on to it.  As for the future...who 
knows...except Grandfather, anyways.

Since you inquired though (and in hopes that it will cause a hue 
and cry to Marc with a desire to have it published), here's a little 
teaser of VH:

Vilani Hypothesis was written as a connected series of adventures 
that would form a single campaign set in Vland Sector, 
approximately year 20 IE.  The Vland of Milieu 0 as written is a far 
different animal than the Ziru Sirka of the Interstellar Wars, nor was 
it the powerful Vland Sector/Restored Vilani Empire of CT/MT.  The 
Vilani Cluster is a loose grouping of 1 to 2 dozen worlds tenuously 
connnected with the Imperium through a single system wide 
corridor to Core Sector known as the Vilani Corridor.  Vland has 
powerful neighbors, chief of which is the fanatical Union of Heaven, 
a pocket empire with technology equal to that of the Vilani, rather 
xenophobic, and fanatic in its belief that its supreme ruler is the 
embodiment of the "Supreme Being."  The Imperial presence is 
relatively weak, and the Union is itching to avenge a defeat against 
a combined Vilani-Sylean fleet less than a generation before.

In any case, the adventure is wrapped around an effort by a 
patriotic Vilani anthropologist in the employ of the AAB to prove the 
Vland is the original homeworld of mankind.  The players can take 
part in the adventure as part of the security team, as the 
diplomats/bureaucrats who must frequently negotiate the right to 
dig up burial grounds and other treasures with petty world and 
pocket empire rulers, or they can be members of the scientific 
team.  The adventures include dealing with hostile natives, strange 
native superstitions, a fanatical Vilani supremacist group that was 
supposed to have disappeared during the Long Night, but may not 
be as dead as everybody thinks, and the party must also deal with 
the fact that ultimately, the evidence supporting the Hypothesis is 
far from overwhelming.  Needless to say, the climax of the 
adventure happens on a world well within the borders of the dread 
enemy of the young Third Imperium, the Union of Heaven.

The game contained two very detailed sectors of Vland, circa 
Milieu 0, several pages of library data, over 50 detailed NPCs, 
numerous world maps, and other goodies, including a detailed 
adventure generator to inspire the referee to create further 
scenarios in a similar vein for the players.

Stu
Stuart L. Dollar               sdollar@goodnet.com
Frustrated Novelist, Published Game Designer
- --------------------------------------------------
"I really haven't said half the things I've said."
- -Yogi Berra

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:28:01 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@shell.rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Jump limits

 
> Aren't most of the worlds in the Traveller universe within 100D of this
> galaxy's mass?
 
I guess it depends on what you call the diamter of the galactic
center :-) I guess a better idea is to look at the gravitaional
gradient at ~100d for various masses, then figure out what the same
would be for the galaxy as a whole. Interesting, very interesting.

It would be nice if the limit were just coreward of the canonical
traveller universe :-)

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 17:27:48 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: greater range = greater chance of success?

Eris Reddoch wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> Erwin, I think your assumption is incorrect, RW, but is probably
> pretty close in the game rules.  I think the spectacular success
> (SS) / spectacular failure (SF) procedure has some problems.
> 
> First, let me put in a plug for SS being whenever you make a roll by
> more than some number and SF being whenever you fail a roll by more
> than some number.  Six sounds like a good number to me...make your
> roll by 6 or more and it's spectacular.
> 
> Example:  Joe has a target number of 9, he has to undertake a
> task that is...
> 
>  Easy       (1d)   -- 1-3 SS; 4-6 success
>  Average    (2d)   -- 2,3 SS; 4-9 success; 10-12 failure
>  Difficult  (2.5d) -- 3 SS; 4-9 success; 10-14 failure; 15 SF
>  Formidable (3d)   -- 3 SS; 4-9 success; 10-14 failure; 15-18 SF
>  Staggering (4d)   -- 4-9 success; 10-14 failure; 15-24 SF
>  Hopeless   (5d)   -- 5-9 success; 10-14 failure; 15-30 SF
> 
> ...or something like that.
> 
I see a problem with this progression:  taking a maximum-range shot with
one's chosen weapon gives one a _very_ good chance of something _deeply_
unpleasant happening.  Why should my FGMP-15 have a greater chance of
blowing up in my face ("spectacular failure") just because my target was
farther away?  RL: my M16A2 will fire (or not), regardless of the range
of the target.

A possible solution to this problem would be to borrow from the Iron
Crown Enterprises starfighter combat game _Silent Death_.  In _Silent
Death_, when one rolls to hit, one rolls two dice of the same type (D6
or D8, generally), plus a die based on the Gunnery skill of the
crewmember firing the weapon (D4 through D10).  On a max of the weapon
dice (12 on 2d6, 16 on 2d8), the firer automatically hits.  On "snake
eyes" for the two weapon dice, the firer automatically misses.  The
"auto-hit" and "auto-miss" occur regardless of the total to-hit roll.

By using three different colors of six-sided dice, one can achieve a
similar effect in Traveller.  Roll dice, based on the difficulty of the
task.  Roll one color of dice for each pip the character has on a given
skill, and add different-colored dice for dice required beyond the
number of points a character has in a skill.  Spectacular Success (SS)
is achieved when the skill-based dice have at least 2 ones.  Spectacular
Failure (SF) occurs when the non-skill-based dice have at least 2
sixes.  SS & SF cancel each other out if both occur.  Half dice count
for neither SS nor SF.

Thus, a highly-skilled individual, with average aptitude, will rarely
suffer SF, and will sometimes enjoy SS.  Any individual will have more
SF chances, regardless of aptitude, if he/she/it exceeds his/her/its
training.  Making the total skill roll, but suffering from SF, will lead
to a problem further down the road (if applicable [i.e., if the referee
can find a plausible repercussion]).

> Eris
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
> -----------------------------------------------------------

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 18:33:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: T5

On Thu, 12 Nov 1998, Eppu Tuominen wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Nov 1998 CardSharks@aol.com wrote:
> > 
> > The game system should be
> > understandable and easily playable, incorporate multiple levels of complexity,
> > mesh with the real world (in so far as is possible).
>  
>  So does this mean you will no longer insist on censoring
> "sexually-flavored content" from the game? What I really hated about this
> comment was the implicit statement, that violence is acceptable if you
> really really have to, but sex is something people just don't do. (Refers
> to T4 rulesbook p.5 goal #5)

<fall to floor in utter shock at realization that I'm not the only one
who has thought this is pathetic & lame> <scare other patrons of computer
lab> <get up>

> > D. Every Adventure Begins and Ends At A Starport.
> 
>  Now why does this sound like an old Infocom text adventure to me? 

Considering we're no longer in the earlies of RPGing, not by a long shot,
is this sort of section really necessary?  Especially if it frames
"adventuring" in such a processed, dumbed-down way?

> > More Aliens in the General Population. As opposed to everyone being human.
> 
>  I support this. I suggest paying more attention to human minor races. I
> think some of them might be _very_ different from Solomani stock.

Can you say Sayat?

Seriously, though, I think this could be a great idea, but a big increase
in numbers of new alien species might result in more "furry suits with
one or more exaggerated human characteristics".  So far, Traveller has
been able to boast _relatively_ non-zippered aliens; I'd hate to see this
be lost due to the desire to make it more superficially "colorful".

Kenji Schwarz

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 18:37:38 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: What shall we have for dinner?

Black ICE wrote:

> StevenA201@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > I'm getting ready to start up a campaign, and I've run into a little snag.
> > What do people eat while in jump?  How is it prepared?  I don't see a kitchen
> > on any of my deckplans!

You've heard of the Donner Party?  What do you think Low Passage is for, anyway?

;-)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 15:41:39 -0800
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Re: T5

Actually, this brings up a good question.  What Sector data will be used
with T:5?  The pre-IG sectors, or the IG sectors?


- -----Original Message-----
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@gulf.net>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 1998 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: T5


>On 11/11/98 at 09:14 PM,  jzeitlin@cyburban.com (Jeff Zeitlin) said:
>
>>I would recommend that T5 maps include names, physical stats, and
>>presence/absence of gas giants and belts.  Data listings should
>>include all of the other information, which is potentially quite
>>mutable from era to era, or even within an era if the area/planet is
>>politically unstable.
>
>>A sample hex might look like this (magnified):
>
>How about a variation showing how *many* GG's and PB's are in a
>system? That shouldn't change much from m to m. ;->
>   _____
>  / 867 \
> /   O  3\
> \      2/
>  \Terra/
>   ~~~~~
>
>
>>867    - the physical stats - Size, Atmo, Hydro
>>O      - the circle that represents the world itself, or the
>>         dotcluster if it's a belt
>>G      - if there are gas giants present in the system
>>B      - if there are planetoid belts (other than a mainworld
>>         belt) present in the system
>>Terra  - the name of the world
>
>>The data listing would match the current format (as established in
>>MT), with the possible exception of an expansion of the Base field to
>>accommodate multiple codes, so that one would not need to use up
>>codes on "combinations" of bases.  Three characters should be
>>sufficient (Naval, Scout, XBoat).  Bases should be assumed to be
>>appropriate for alignment, rather than needing separate codes for
>>each polity, so that a Zhodani Naval base would be indicated by "N"
>>on a Zhodani world, and an Imperial Naval base would be indicated by
>>"N" on an Imperial world. Suggested codes:
>
>>N - Naval Base
>>S - Scout Base
>>D - Naval Depot
>>W - Scout Way Station
>>X - XBoat
>>M - Non-Naval Military Base
>>F - Fuel Dump/Deep Space Fueling Station
>
>Or maybe...
>       _____
>      / 867 \
>     /3  O  2\
>     \nsdwxnf/
>      \TERRA/
>       ~~~~~
>...of course no system would have *all* those codes.  ;-> And for a
>milleu non-specific map that line should be empty.
>
>Eris
>--
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 18:37:14 -0500 (EST)
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: What shall we have for dinner?

On Wed, 11 Nov 1998, Eris Reddoch wrote:

> And where are the restrooms?  Do they keep a slop jar under their
> bunk? ;->

Took the question right out of my mouth.  And what do they look like?  Are
they all still variations on porcelain flush basins, or can the gearheads
on the list suggest any high-tech options?

Likewise, what about bathing?  What sorts of shower gadgetry will TL A+
put aboard starships?

Kenji Schwarz

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:42:15 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: T5

Dear Folks -

Marc replied:
>> >D. Every Adventure Begins and Ends At A Starport.
>This is a chapter about starports, and which incidentally establishes the
convention that an adventure starts here and should end here (or at another
starport).

I *knew* it! In AD&D the convention was always the _pub_ (usually with a
Ranger in the corner being harassed by Hobbits!).

I also note that G:T actually includes a picture of a pub with a mob of
aliens ordering, well, probably a schooner or pot of something alien
("It's... green!" - obscure ST:TNG reference).

I'll have to add to the multi-lingual thread that has been going (ie "what
do you call "x" in another language"), although I've forgotten half the
required terms:

Australian Terms for Things Traveller

Highport - "The pub".
Downport - "The pub".
TAS - "The pub".
Corporation - "What, work? Nah, I'll meet you at the pub".
Government - "Who?"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 18:47:07 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Vilani Hypothesis: A Tale of Lost Treasure  (Was Re: The Lost Files)  (Long)

"Stuart L. Dollar" wrote:

> FWIW, I wrote Vilani Hypothesis.  It IS a finished manuscript,
> complete with maps.

[snip]

> Since you inquired though (and in hopes that it will cause a hue
> and cry to Marc with a desire to have it published), here's a little
> teaser of VH:

Hmm.

I'm getting a feeling, a sensation, from you, Stu.  Something you
may have been hiding from yourself. . . .  Something about Beams?
Or Bems? . . .  A BEM, maybe? . . .  Wait, . . . no, thats not quite
it. . . . Something that begins with a "P." . . . A peam?  A Pem?
 . . .No, that doesn't make sense. . . .Oh, could you please take off
that Psi-shield?  Thank you. . . .Ahah!  I see it now as clear as day.

You want to run the Vilani Hypothesis as a PBEM!
Thats it!

;-)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:54:06
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Scout/Courier and FFS2

>From: igor@truserve.com
>Subject: Re: Scout/Courier and FF&S2
>
>I can design a ship that performs as the scout/courier using FF&S - I
_can't_ seem to
>design one that costs as little as the s/c is supposed to cost.
>
>My scout/courier ends up with:
>
>100tons
>Jump 2
>2-G
>1-G contra/grav
>90 MW fusion plant

<stuff snipped>

>batteries for 2 hour full power use

Firstly, what TL ?

Secondly, what the heck are you using 90 MW of power for in a 100 dton, 2G,
Jump-2 ship with a 2 hour battery pack ?

You need 50.4 MW to get or stay in jump space.

Now, using t-plates, 70 MW powers 28 000 kN, so we're OK there too. Rip the
contragrav if you pull 2 gees with t-plates too ... when are you going to
*use* it ?

We still have 180 MW/hours worth of boost power from the battery pack, so
if we bleed this in at 20 MW per hour, we can install a 60 MW power plant
that should cut the sticker cost by around MCr 3.

Me, I would reduce the t-plates to 1 G, and install a combat-boost Heplar
plant with 14 000 kN of thrust for, say, 4 hours. This cuts the normal
power use down to 35 MW, but puts combat power up by 35 MW. 14 000 kN of
T-plates costs MCr 8.75, while 14 000 kN of Heplar costs MCr 0.07. 

Using the afterburners for one hour will need 17.5 m3 of H-fuel - note that
this could act as a partial fuel reserve for an additional jump in a
redesigned ship. Switching one gee of thrust from T-plates to Heplar saved
you 28 m3. Add the 10 m3 we saved from the smaller fusion plant, and we
need to find a mere 32 m3 of additional space for tankage for 4 hours of
H-fuel.

Combined, the smaller fusion plant and the combination m-drive should save
about MCr 11 on the sticker cost of the Scout, with very little loss of
operational efficiency.

Doing this should take the cost of the unit down to around MCr 25 or so.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1128
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, November 12 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1129



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Scout/Courier and FF&S2
Re: 100 Diameter limit - Traveller-digest V1998 #1085
Re: T5
Re: What shall we have for dinner?
Re: Scout/Courier and FFS2
Re: 100 Diameter limit - Traveller-digest V1998 #1085
Re: One-week jump theory
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1127
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1126
Re: T5
Re: T5
re: Rail Guns
Re: greater range = greater chance of success?
re: Ship Design question
Re: Remembering the reason behind the holiday 
Re: Low, fast and LOUD (off-topic)
Re: Jump limits
Re: What shall we have for dinner?
Re: T5
Re: T5 
Re: Remembering the reason behind the holiday 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 17:56:26 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Scout/Courier and FF&S2

igor@truserve.com wrote:
> 
> I can design a ship that performs as the scout/courier using FF&S - I _can't_ seem to
> design one that costs as little as the s/c is supposed to cost.
> 
> My scout/courier ends up with:
> 
> 100tons
> Jump 2
> 2-G
> 1-G contra/grav
> 90 MW fusion plant
> 4 large staterooms
> 4 tons cargo
> 2 bridge stations
> 1 empty turret
> 4 ton minimal hangar
> 12.5 sensitivity passive sensor
> 8 sensitivity active sensor
> Radio and laser commo
> Computers and controls
> ship's locker
> purfication plant
> batteries for 2 hour full power use
> 
> Cost: 36.02MCr with a 10% discount.
> 
> All of the cost is wrapped up in maneuver drive, jump drive, and power plant
> (approximately 32MCr).


Obviously, I'm gold-plating my ships.  I came up with a 97.62 MCr ship
that met the basic requirements.  However, I added the following:

	Stealth (1 level)
	1 light laser mount
	1 sandcaster (the Akins FF&S spreadsheet ver 3.2 doesn't allow, AFAIK,
for multiple batteries in the same turret)
	1 Radio Jammer (1000 AU)
	1 Deception Jammer (rating 11)
	1 Passive Jammer (rating 13)
	Neutrino and Basic IR Masking
	11.5 AEMS (IAW the DSR) vice 8 AEMS
	3 x Fiber-optic computers
	1 112 MW power plant vice 90 MW (to power the laser mount)
	No batteries
	6 Td cargo hold vice 4 Td cargo hold
	Armor USP rating 10

At least it _performs_ like a canonical Type-S (J-2, 2-G, fuel refining
ability)....

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 23:43:24 +0000
From: C G Essery <cgessery@netcomuk.co.uk>
Subject: Re: 100 Diameter limit - Traveller-digest V1998 #1085

Dusty wrote:

"        One of the things central to the Great Piracy Debate is the
effect of the
100-D limit.  Now, correct me if I am wrong about the following
statements:

        1)  A starship can make a risky jump at 10-D, with a large
chance of a
misjump."

T4 classifies 100 planetary diameters as safe.  The misjump calculation
is "roll 2- for a misjump, DMs:+1 for Unrefined Fuel, +5 for less than
100D (I think they mean DM-1/-5 respectively, since it should be more
likely to misjump)  If I am right this means a 7- chance of a misjump if
jumping between 10D & 100D (it also says <10D destroys the ship).  I
don't like them odds.

The various sections in T4/FF&S2 also imply that the Jump Bubble is
formed in front of the ship even if it is moving, and that you are not
trying to "thread the needle" as I think Keven implied earlier.  They
also imply that the average time taken to prepare for a jump is one hour
(it cannot be more than 1 hour).  It would be very difficult to generate
sufficient power to jump in less time - so far in all my designs this
has been the most power hungry component.  You need a total of 64MJ per
cubic meter per parsec jumped.  This equates to .018MW of power plant
output per cubic meter per jump number (which must be maintained
throughout the Jump so the power must be over and above that needed to
maintain Life Support/Armour, etc. but not weapons, commo, sensors, ecm
or any other power hungry item that cannot work in jump space).
againg quoting:
"        2)  A starship can make a safe jump at 100-D, with no effect on
the
possiblilty of misjump (except for maintenance, etc.)"
As said above in T4 there is a 1 in 36 chance of a misjump even at 100D

"        3) NOWHERE in the rules does it say a ship MUST come out of
jump only at the
100-D limit!!! " 
agreed

"...how many of us have spent time in an airplane waiting
to land because either theirs too much traffic or the ATC comps are down
(which passengers don't usually get told about <G>)"
I happen to work for the UK Air Traffic Control, the main civilian ATC
Comps fail on average less than 3 times per year, excluding
"start-overs" where the system is out for a couple of minutes.  In
general most ATC Comps are to assist the controller to move more traffic
more quickly, very few are absolutely needed for ATC, loosing the comms
to the Aircraft or the Radars would be far more embarrasing, I don't
believe that has ever happened in the entire history of ATC in this
country (since circa 1948?)

Clive Essery

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 18:08:48 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: T5

Marc,
I notice a lot of specific comments on everyones ruels preferences. I think
I'll TRY and keep mine general since I'm sure  by now you have a pretty good
idea about how the rules will work.

- -----Original Message-----
From: CardSharks@aol.com <CardSharks@aol.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>; hiwg-twg@qrc.com
<hiwg-twg@qrc.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 1998 12:45 AM
Subject: T5


>What is in T5?


<Snipped>

>Structure: The central rules structure of T5 consists of a core rules book
>(T5), a companion, a technical architecture book (perhaps itself divided
into
>three volumes… ships, equipment/weapons, and vehicles), and an atlas. Only
T5
>will appear initially. Our intention is to develop the equivalent of FF&S
>intandem so that it expands T5 rather than supplants it.


I'm still lobbying here. I think a major Referee's Guide or Secrets of the
Traveller Universe type book
outlineing MAJOR story lines (and possibly one or more hidden agendas)
through out all of the history of the Imperium would be a GOOD addition.
This would be the bible that new writers need to keep the canonists off
their backs.

, more snipage>

>E. Space Travel. Ship Operations. Ship Economics. Ship Design. Ship Combat.

Please gear star ship combat toward role playing. A companion game system
for misature ship combat is great but the basic ROLE-PLAYING rules should
have role-playing star ship combat rules.

>F. Worlds. World Generation. World Surfaces. Terrain. Travel on Worlds.

I realize the main world is the primary adventure site but please include
even rudimentary rules for system generation.


<snipped again>

>New To T5.
>
>Cards. T5 introduces a variety of cards (commonly 2.5 x 3.5) for Equipment,
>Weapons, Vehicles, Ships, Characters and NPCs, etc. These cards make data
for
>players and game masters alike easy to reference and use.

I really like this idea. However, as others have said, if possible have the
card sheets left un bound or in perferated pages at the very end of the
books. I'm among the ones who hate to tear up a new (or old) book.

<the scissors come out again>

>More Aliens in the General Population. As opposed to everyone being human.


An excellent idea.

>
>Tasks integrated into everything. Rather than just tacked on.


Refered to my comment under E. above

<cut and paste without the paste>

>Expanded system for wounds and fighting. Which allows for non-combat injury
>(accidents, cold, heat, vacuum, and such. This in turn opens the
opportunity
>for weapons and devices which can impose damage other than just hits (so
nukes
>can impose burns and radiation as well as blast). High tech weapons can do
the
>same.


Nice!

In all an excellent beginning.

Mike Peters, Letterworks@CITnet.com
webpage:"Jump Point" http://users.citnet.com/Letterworks/
"For my part, I travel not to go anywhere, but to go. I travel for travel's
sake. The great affair is to move."
Robert Louis Stevenson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:43:50 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: What shall we have for dinner?

In a message dated 11/11/98 2:14:38 PM Pacific Standard Time,
StevenA201@aol.com writes:

<< I'm getting ready to start up a campaign, and I've run into a little snag.
 What do people eat while in jump?  How is it prepared?  I don't see a kitchen
 on any of my deckplans!
 
 For that matter, what do we wear?  I also can't find a washing-machine.
 Disposable clothing, perhaps?
   --S
  >>

In my opinion; these housekeeping chores are covered by "pop-out" (unfolding
from the bulkheads) appliances in the common spaces. I have seen deckplans
with dedicated galleys, and I think one of the liners had washing machines in
the cabins; though I would think high passage customers would have the steward
arrange for the ship's laundry to do this for them...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:50:57 EST
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Scout/Courier and FFS2

In a message dated 11/11/98 15:55:44 PM Pacific Standard Time,
ianw@orac.net.au writes:

<< My scout/courier ends up with:
 >
 >100tons
 >Jump 2
 >2-G
 >1-G contra/grav
 >90 MW fusion plant
  >>

	This was the point of the original question (kind of a cheap trick question):
In my copy of FF&S2, T-plates produce 400kn of thrust/m3, and have a min
thrust of 4000kn!  This works out to a 4-G Scout...was this a typo?  I knew I
could do it w/ HEPLaR, but I didn't want to go that route.

	Also, I cannot seem to reconcile the SSDS in Starships w/ FF&S2...was there
an errata fixing this, or am I just living on a different world? :-)

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:55:11 EST
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: 100 Diameter limit - Traveller-digest V1998 #1085

In a message dated 11/11/98 16:11:53 PM Pacific Standard Time,
cgessery@netcomuk.co.uk writes:

<< I happen to work for the UK Air Traffic Control, the main civilian ATC
 Comps fail on average less than 3 times per year, excluding
 "start-overs" where the system is out for a couple of minutes.  In
 general most ATC Comps are to assist the controller to move more traffic
 more quickly, very few are absolutely needed for ATC, loosing the comms
 to the Aircraft or the Radars would be far more embarrasing, I don't
 believe that has ever happened in the entire history of ATC in this
 country (since circa 1948?) >>

	Unfortunately, in the US, this seems to happen rather more frequently...I can
think of at least 8 different this year...and those were the ones reported on
the CBS Evening News.  Our ATC system is 1960's vintage for the most
part...spares are getting hard to come by;  And the FAA is notoriously tight-
fisted budget-wise.

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:57:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: One-week jump theory

> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 14:03:02 +0100 (MET)
> From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
> 
> On Sun, 8 Nov 1998, Craig Berry wrote:
>
> I add a wavemechanics-like version for differences between the j-1
> to j-6 routes. each of the found ones resembles an own jumpspace, which,
> like the vibrations of a wire applied at two points, can overlay and
> combine to standing waves.
> 
> For the fans of quantum mechanics: if you describe jumpspace in terms of
> wavefunctions, J-Space 1 belongs to the first eigenvalue, and J-Space 6
> belongs to the sixth.
> 
> The small differences in place and time oberved when exiting Jumpspace
> are explained by Heisenberg's uncertainty principle applied here.

The trouble is that the jump number is just an upper bound; it's canon
that a J-1 can be done 'in place', and I'd presume higher jumps as well,
should you decide to waste a lot of fuel.  Also, no real-world jump is
going to be an exact integer number of parsecs; that J-4 is probably
really J-3.784, but only integer jump numbers are possible, so you waste
the excess fuel.

Hm, interesting idea:  Suppose that two systems are, during a time of
Jump-N technology, N.01 parsecs apart.  This would mean that the two are
mutually accessible in one jump, but only with a *long* real-space run to
make up that .01 parsec.  This would make for an interesting 'feel' for
travel between those systems (ships would accelerate out to jump, jump
without slowing down, then decelerate (modulo relative stellar motion) on
the far end).

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      "Ripple in still water, when there is no pebble tossed,
       nor wind to blow..."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 17:11:29 -0800
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1127

- ------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 17:13:30 EST
From: StevenA201@aol.com
Subject: What shall we have for dinner?

I'm getting ready to start up a campaign, and I've run into a little snag.
What do people eat while in jump?  How is it prepared?  I don't see a
kitchen
on any of my deckplans!

For that matter, what do we wear?  I also can't find a washing-machine.
Disposable clothing, perhaps?
  --S

- ------------------------------

     What do your players eat planet side?  Do you think that huge amount
of money you are charging them for life support is just for water and air?
I have always assumed that they eat the same items one can find on a
planet, or what can be found on which ever planet they purchased life
support from.
     There should be an area on your deck plans called a lounge or rec
area.  If not, just remember that there is a portion of every staterooms
volume that was intended for the lounge/central gathering place/dinning
room.  I would hazard a guess that laundry services would also be
accomplished in this area also.
     Feel free to use or discard these answers.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:13:15 -0600
From: "Christopher B. Thrash" <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1126

> 
> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:13:03 +0000
> From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
> Subject: Jump limits
> 
> Aren't most of the worlds in the Traveller universe within 100D of this
> galaxy's mass?
> 

Interesting question.  The answer might depend on a couple of things:

(1) The 100D limit is most likely only a convenient rule of thumb for a
more complicated physical relationship.  I'll let one of the TMLers who has
researched this explanation do the appropriate analysis.  I suspect,
though, that both tidal forces and the acceleration of gravity from the
mass of the galaxy are too slight to qualify for a limit.

(2) The galaxy, while gravitationally bound (more or less) is not a
"physical object", in the sense that it is not compact.  All other objects
that are mentioned as having a 100D limit (planets, planetoids, stars,
black holes, starships depending on which version of Traveller) are either
held up against the force of gravity by their structure, or collapsed
matter.  This suggests that nebulae would not have a 100D limit, for
example, but gas giants would.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 21:02:25 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: T5

"Michael D. Peters" wrote:

> I'm still lobbying here. I think a major Referee's Guide or Secrets of the
> Traveller Universe type book
> outlineing MAJOR story lines (and possibly one or more hidden agendas)
> through out all of the history of the Imperium would be a GOOD addition.
> This would be the bible that new writers need to keep the canonists off
> their backs.

I've made similar suggestions here on TML.
A Bible of Canon, a Universe Builder's Handbook, etc.
Not just a compilation of secrets (and many milieus will have secrets
separate to themselves), but information resources to deal with large
scale issues.  From linguistic drift over time for isolated systems, how
TL increases and decreases (with system specific modifiers).

I like it because you could move players (with or without their characters)
forward in time, and still have some minimally sufficient knowledge about
the state of the Imperium at that time.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 02:57:49 +0100
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <greimann@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: T5

At 14:15 11.11.98 -0500, you wrote:

>The atlas remains to be thought out in order to handle various milieux. T5
>basic rules should include an atlas of the Antares sector and world data
>(circa 001-099) for the sector.
This is something I really like. The previous Traveller editions 
(apart from the MT Boxed Set) all had the problem that they provided 
all rules and almost no background.
In todays roleplaying environment, the game needs to be instantly playable,
thus a background needs to be included.
So please do not only include the sector data, but also some information
on the background of the sector and the game. Just enough that gamers 
can see what the game is about and let them start right away.
Volker
- ---
Volker A. Greimann, greimann@geocities.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 18:20:21 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: Rail Guns

>What would be the effect of a Mass Driver/Rail Gun/massice Gauss Rifle in
>ship to ship combat in HG, MT, TNE, & T4?

Realistically, they'll only hit stationary (non-evading) targets at
relatively short ranges. (A mass driver round might take 30 minutes to T
travel a hex in BL - plenty of time for a target to get out of the way.) 
Only useful against targets that can't maneuver. Weber-esque mass-driver 
missile launchers are similarly irrelevant; they only buy a missile 
less than a hex per turn of extra speed. (They only matter for Weber
becaues of technobabble - "get clear of the wedge" - that he invented
so his ships couldn't fire all his missiles at once. Weber is exceptionally 
bad about thinking about technological interactions...)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 98 20:23:59 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: greater range = greater chance of success?

On 11/11/98 at 05:27 PM,  Black ICE <wombat@premier.net> said:

>I see a problem with this progression:  taking a maximum-range shot
>with one's chosen weapon gives one a _very_ good chance of something
>_deeply_ unpleasant happening.  Why should my FGMP-15 have a greater
>chance of blowing up in my face ("spectacular failure") just because
>my target was farther away?  RL: my M16A2 will fire (or not),
>regardless of the range of the target.

Ah, we obviously have different ideas as to what spectacularly
failing to hit something means.  To me it means you missed your
target completely and perhaps hit something you didn't mean to hit.
It doesn't mean the weapon will blow up in your face.  So yes, your
"M16A2 will fire (or not) regardless of the range," but what it hits
may be unfortunate.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 18:30:34 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: Ship Design question

>{can anyone design a Type S with FFS2}

Here's one I did quite a while ago (with upgraded/expensive sensors)
Ferret class advanced Scout (FF&S v2)				
Designed by Bruce Macintosh (BAMTech)				
				
Statistics				
Tons: 100std ( SL Wedge Hypersonic ) Crew: 2/2	Cargo: 8std (1/0)
Volume: 1,400m3		   Passengers High/Med: 0/0	Cost: 231.039 MCr
Mass (L/C): 1,258t/1,162t  Passengers Low: 0	Maintenance Points: 45
Dimensions: 35.0m x 24.0m x 10.0m Troops/Science: 0/0	Tech Level: 12
Size: 8		Frozen Watch: 0(0 group)	
				
Electronics				
Controls: Dynamic, High automation. 3xComp (CM:0.4 CP:2.5). 
	Terrain following sensors (TF:480, NOE:160). No bridge.			
Communications: 1xRadio (500,000km, 0.17MW). 1xLaser (1,000AU, 0.00MW). 			
Sensors: 1xSci PEMS (13.5 [16mkm] Sci, 0.01MW). 1xAEMS (11.5 [.5mkm], 2.50MW). 1xLIDAR (14.5 [500kkm], 0.60MW). 			
Survey/Science: 1xDensiometer (7.5 [16km]). 1xNeutrino (8 [50km], 1.00MW). 			
ECM: advanced masking, military black hull			
Signatures: Vis:-1.5, IR:-0.5 (-1.0 at 10MW), Act:-0.5, Neu:0, Grav:0			
				
Weaponry		Performance	
1 Empty turret 		2	Jump (10std/pc fuel)
  socket (3 std,2.3 MW)	2.0/2.3	Maneuver (/Thruster:63MW)
	 		1.4/1.6	Contra-grav (31MW)
	 		3,383kph/3,524kph Atmosphere 
			(/Crus:2,537kph/2,643kph)
	 		2	Power (/Fusion:104MW,1.0)
	 		21.1	Fuel (/Scoop:2 /Purif:6,2MW)
		 	0/0/4/0/0	Accomodations
	 		24	Life Support (/Type:Ex /FQ:Nm /'Sto)
		 	2	G-Comp 
	 		10 [29]	Armor, Structure 6
				
Features				
			1xDecontamination Airlock	
	 		1xShip's locker (0.05std ea.)	 
	 		1xOrdinary Galley (Cap:0)			
				
				
Small Craft				
	1xMinimal Hangar (4std air/raft, 1 hatches)		 	 
	 		 	 				
Backups				
	Sensors: 1xSci PEMS (13 [5mkm] Sci). 			
				
Crew Details				
	1xMnvr. 1xElec.


The Ferret class advanced scout is a BAMTech design concept study for a 
 replacement for the standard scout/courier, optimized for exploration -
 with an extremely advanced sensor suite, centered around a P1350S science
 array, capable of resolving human-sized targets at ranges of 100,000km or
 mapping the surface of a planet at the 1km level from 1 AU away.
 The ship also has a secondary military intelligence gathering roll, with
 a MidNite black hull coating and advanced IR masking; the same sensor
 suite allows it to detect powered-down military targets at a range of
 several million km.

Much of the cost of the ship is its sensor suite. Courier and military
 versions often delete the neutrino sensor and the science optimization on
 the main sensor array, reducing the cost by MCr 100 and freeing up an 
 additional 1 MW for weaponry.

The scout is also designed for long-endurance operations, with closed-
 cycle air and water recycling and 16 weeks of carried food supplies.

If the advanced scout is in common useage, Scout characters can obtain one
 in place of a regular type S (when awarded on mustering out) on a roll of
 10+, +1 for Pilot 3+. Such ships usually have the reduced sensor capability;
 roll 10+ again, +1 for Sensor 3+, to retain the full sensor suite.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:23:25 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Remembering the reason behind the holiday 

Christopher Ruhl writes:
>Apologies from this new list member from diverging from the subject.  But
>I
>just wished to ask that while those of us in North America go about our
>business this week, we take a moment to reflect on why we have a holiday
>for
>Veteran's/Rememberance Day.  For those that served, those that continue to
>serve, and those gave their final service doing their duty, thank you.

I took the day off work to go downtown to the service at the cenotaph. A
repectable turnout, although there was a constant hum of traffic and
occasional outbursts of carhorns. When I was a kid I remember shops
closing down for the service(1), and people parking their cars during the
minute of silence. Times change...

ObTrav: The Imperium has fought a lot of fairly big wars. Would any of
them (ofther than the "Virus War" that killed the Imperium) have made
enough of an impression to result in a Rememberance Day-style holiday?



(1) I noticed that Mountain Equipment Coop didn't open unit noon, to give
their staff the chance to go to the service. Nice to see some employers
still remember...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 20:00:46 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: Low, fast and LOUD (off-topic)

At 01:00 PM 11/11/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 11/10/98 3:53:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>goldendj@pcisys.net writes:
>
><< Not quite--look for the EA-6B Prowler, a Navy aircraft now filling
> the joint service EW role, including AF pilots giong through the Navy
> training. >>
>
>they are also on the way out....
>
>
...to be replaced by EF-18's. I'll search my archives and see when the
replacements will begin if your interested.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 20:04:12 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: Jump limits

At 07:13 PM 11/11/98 +0000, you wrote:
>Aren't most of the worlds in the Traveller universe within 100D of this
>galaxy's mass?
>
Now this is an interesting opservation. However, to get around this, we
must assume (correctly) that the galaxy is mostly empty space, therefore we
can assume that the majority of the points of space that a starship can
travel are outside of 100d of the nearest object within the galaxy.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 20:18:17 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: What shall we have for dinner?

At 05:13 PM 11/11/98 EST, you wrote:
>I'm getting ready to start up a campaign, and I've run into a little snag.
>What do people eat while in jump?  How is it prepared?  I don't see a kitchen
>on any of my deckplans!
>
>For that matter, what do we wear?  I also can't find a washing-machine.
>Disposable clothing, perhaps?
>  --S

Some of the accomidation space should have included that. Staterooms should
have small kitchenettes, and probably a small washer/dryer set or whatever
the technology/cultural needs are.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 00:02:40 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: T5

In a message dated 11/11/98 4:31:32 PM Central Standard Time, eptitu@utu.fi
writes:

<<  So does this mean you will no longer insist on censoring
 "sexually-flavored content" from the game? What I really hated about this
 comment was the implicit statement, that violence is acceptable if you
 really really have to, but sex is something people just don't do. (Refers
 to T4 rulesbook p.5 goal #5)
>>

You're entitled to your opinion, but this does not mean I have retracted that
sexually flavored content edict. Nice sarcasm.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 00:00:17 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: T5 

> ("It's... green!" - obscure ST:TNG reference).

That was from the *original* series.  They just pirated it for that TNG episode when they brought Scotty back from the Dyson Sphere.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 18:22:03 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Remembering the reason behind the holiday 

Date sent:      	Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:23:25 -0500
From:           	Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)

>I took the day off work to go downtown to the service at the cenotaph. A
>repectable turnout, although there was a constant hum of traffic and
>occasional outbursts of carhorns. When I was a kid I remember shops
>closing down for the service(1), and people parking their cars during the
>minute of silence. Times change...

Here in NZ virtually all trading is still banned on ANZAC day (our equivalent, just 
its 25th April) and unlike the handful of other days on which trading is banned 
(Easter and Christmas) nobody tries to break the ban. Somethings just need to 
be protected.

>ObTrav: The Imperium has fought a lot of fairly big wars. Would any of
>them (ofther than the "Virus War" that killed the Imperium) have made
>enough of an impression to result in a Rememberance Day-style holiday?

Not really. Even the Civil War (604-622) was pretty much restricted to the Core. 
NOne of the Imperiums wars would have had the sociological impact of the 
Great War. However, since the Imperium is based around the Sylean 
Federation, its possible the Federation may have (the Wars against the 
Revears perhaps, or maybe even the Interstellar Wars between the Terrans and 
the Vilani).

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1129
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, November 12 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1130



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Scout/Courier and FFS2
Re: Scout/Courier and FFS2
Re: Spending the IISS' budget
Contact: The Quarmas (long)
Re: What shall we have for dinner?
Re: Vilani Hypothesis
Re: T5
sexually flavored content
Re: Lost files & Hiwg CD
Re: Incendental effects of damage
sex and T5
Re: Low, fast and LOUD (off-topic)
Jumpspace physics (again!?), was Re: More question
Re: Jump limits
Re: One-week jump theory
Re: Riot Control Systems
Re: Kryptonian Strephon
Re: Rail Guns
Re: Statites (was jump masking)
Re: Statites (was jump masking)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 21:32:18 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Scout/Courier and FFS2

>        This was the point of the original question (kind of a cheap trick question
>In my copy of FF&S2, T-plates produce 400kn of thrust/m3, and have a min
>thrust of 4000kn!  This works out to a 4-G Scout...was this a typo?

It takes 100 kN to accelrate 1 dTon at 1 G (since 1 kN accelerates 1 tonne
at 1 m/s^2, and 1 dTon masses 10 tonnes, and 1 G is 10 m/s^2.) So 2-G
scouts remain practical. Affordible scouts are a different issue, as the
various designs post - though as long as you don't go too Cadillac you can
manage it. (My design being the most extreme Cadillac example, especially
if you buy the neutrino sensor.)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:44:26 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Scout/Courier and FFS2

At 07:50 pm 11/11/98 EST, you wrote:
>	Also, I cannot seem to reconcile the SSDS in Starships w/
FF&S2...was there
>an errata fixing this, or am I just living on a different world? :-)

	No, you're living in a world in which IG changed its mind several
times ... SSDS was based upon FF&S (TNE edition), which was supposed
to be the foundation for all T4 tech. Then along came Central Supply
Catalog, with an incompatible design system (VDS). Meanwhile, there
was a serious problem with weapons and penetration (a standard 250kg
HE bomb could knock out NORAD ...). When we started writing FF&S2, we
were expecting to try to fit CSC; instead, we were told CSC wasn't
quite canonical, and to stick to FF&S. Only, do things differently
(better, we hoped). So don't slit your wrists, swear at us instead ...
- -- Dave Golden
- -- House in Colorado Springs for sale! 
- -- http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/House

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:53:39
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Spending the IISS' budget

>From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
>Subject: Re: Scout/Courier and FF&S2
>
>Obviously, I'm gold-plating my ships.  I came up with a 97.62 MCr ship
>that met the basic requirements.  However, I added the following:
>

That isnt gold-plated. Thats *real* gold taps in that baby.

>From: DustyLV769@aol.com
>Subject: Re: Scout/Courier and FFS2
>
>	This was the point of the original question (kind of a cheap trick
question):
>In my copy of FF&S2, T-plates produce 400kn of thrust/m3, and have a min
>thrust of 4000kn!  This works out to a 4-G Scout...was this a typo?  I knew I
>could do it w/ HEPLaR, but I didn't want to go that route.
>

Ummm ... 1 kilonewton pushes 1 ton at 1 m/s. 4000 kN therefore accelerates
400 t at one gee. A standard scout/courier masses a lot more than 400 t.

>	Also, I cannot seem to reconcile the SSDS in Starships w/ FF&S2...was there
>an errata fixing this, or am I just living on a different world? :-)

QSDS and SSDS were literally knocked up over a weekend using FFS1. They
dont reconcile.

Part of the T5 project, as I understand it, is doing a FFS2-compliant
version of SSDS and QSDS.

>
>DustyLV769@aol.com
>
>From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
>Subject: re: Ship Design question
>
>Ferret class advanced Scout (FF&S v2)				
>Designed by Bruce Macintosh (BAMTech)				
>				
>Statistics				
>Tons: 100std ( SL Wedge Hypersonic ) Crew: 2/2	Cargo: 8std (1/0)
>Volume: 1,400m3		   Passengers High/Med: 0/0	Cost: 231.039 MCr

My god. And I thought the previous designs were gold-plated.

Seriously, if you are going to spend MCr 230 on a ship, I would have more
crew on it so you can have multiple sensor operators.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 00:53:32 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Contact: The Quarmas (long)

A minor human race, common near the Imperial Core and Trailing of there,
even into Vargr, Hiver and K'Kree space. Tracking down their planet of origin 
has been, shall we say, somewhat problematical, what with Long Nights, 
Interregnums, new Empires and whatnot. Quarmic clans can be found in 
the best of starports, on starships and elsewhere, usually associated
with the trading and travelling culture of the starports and spacelanes
rather than that of the planets themselves. They are best known (by
those who know of them) as some of the best cooks, stewards and
innkeepers in known space.

Quarmas are, to most appearances, almost indistinguishable from the
humans who surround them. They are generally not interfertile with
the other branches of humanity (thus gaining them status as a 
species, or at least a subspecies), but genetic analysis has shown this
to be the result of a genetic quirk only some fifteen to twenty thousand
years old. Theories on genetic engineering or Ancient meddling have
been put forth, but not substantiated. It is widely held that the major
differences between the Quarmas and the other branches of humanity
are more cultural than physiological.

Physical Appearance: Quarmas are generally fair skinned, dark haired,
and have a shorter and stockier (if not portlier) body style than most 
humans on the average. Their facial features are otherwise almost
indistinguishable from Vilani norms.

Culture: Quarmas are full participants in the Vilani/Solomani space
based cultures that surround them, but do maintain cultural traditions
of their own. Many of these traditions are little known by outsiders,
though this is more due to ignorance than any attempt at secrecy.
Some topics are covered below.

Family: Quarmas have a knack for providing. They tend not to become
wealthy, but it is rare to find one destitute. It is also rare to find one
settled in a starport without children - their own, and those of Quarmas
currently travelling in places not fit for children. Thus is formed that
ever-changing Quarmas social unit, the Family.
In some ways, every Quarmas is a parent (or at least an Aunt or Uncle)
to every Quarmas child. "Family" in Quarmas society seems, at least
to outsiders, to include every Quarmas within travel distance, as well
as any humans, aliens or whatnot the local clan has grown close to.
These clan members work together to insure the survival and comfort of 
all through a mixture of hard work, mutual assistance and a nepotism
network that almost borders on the criminal.
Most confusing to outsiders is the fluid nature of personal relationships
within these Quarmas clan-families. Quarmas are pretty much
polygamous within their culture, though some will pretend otherwise
so as not to offend particularly strict local mores.
Note that this attitude only applies within their culture, and to those that
have been allowed to join them. Joining a Quarmas clan is a long,
tricky and unorthodox process, that pretty much boils down to 
a consensus amongst the local Quarmas that you are worth it.

Nonviolence: Quarmas are the cooks, barkeeps, innkeepers and
babysitters of the galaxy, and like it that way just fine. Some have 
learned the skills of self-defense, but few ever seem to develop the
instincts for it. A Quarmas is more often a mediator than a particiapant
in a conflict, though this is more a matter of attitude than any personal
lack of bravery.
To all but the most hardened of individuals, a Quarmas' reputation acts
as an effective shield. Even a Vargr Corsair knows the value of a good
cook, and (as the head of the Khvargh Ghanurr once said), "A dead
Quarmas makes no pate."  Most Quarmas work actively to support
this popular mindset, doing their best to appear innocuous no matter
how serious a business they may be up to.

*********************************
Creating a Quarmas character (for CT rules):

Characteristics: use standard 2d6, with the following modifications:
Str: -1 (minimum 1)
End: +2

Careers:
Enlistment: A Quarmas character may only attempt to join the Merchant, 
Scout, Belter, Diplomat, or Other professions. If she fails her roll, she rolls
normally for the Draft.

Survival: Quarmas have a knack for being prepared, for bringing just
the right thing along to make things work out. A Quarmas may
use her Steward skill as a modifier to the survival roll, instead of a
modifier based on characteristics. This substitution is optional.

Skills: Quarmas come from a somewhat non-violent culture (though
not quite as non-violent as others such as the Virushi). A Quarmas
recieves Brawling and Blade Weapon skills normally, but the first 
level of any Gun skill is taken as level zero instead of level one. 
Quarmas characters should not otherwise be allowed a default skill-0
in any Gun Combat skill.
A Quarmas must recieve (at least) Steward-1 in her first term. If she
does not, one normally obtained skill must be traded in for Steward-1.
A Quarmas may exchange any characteristic increase for either
a level in Steward skill or a level in Survival skill, provided neither of
these skills have been otherwise obtained that term.

Aging rolls:
A Quarmas ages normally in all respects, including the use of anagathics.

Mustering Out:
A Quarmas character rolls normally on the mustering out tables,
with the exception that multiple weapon benefits may not be taken
as skill increases. Quarmas have always been more interested in
collecting interesting things than in martial excellence.

Role Playing Tips: Think "Hobbits in space". Or Mom - you know,
the kind who'll bake you cookies, but only if you wipe your feet
before you wander in through the airlock. (The scary part is, you'll
find yourself wiping your feet - the cookies are that good.) Always
seems to have bits of this and that - occaisionally very critical kinds
of this and that - stowed away nearly anywhere. A fuze about two
miles long. Usually an NPC, unless you have a PC who enjoys
a challenge. Imagine anything more challenging than trying to get the
universe to just get along... <g>


Traveller, in quite a few forms, is copyright Far Future Enterprises.
The above is a supplement for this excellent game system, and
is presented copyright Walter Smith, 1998. Rights are freely given
to use, mine for ideas, or otherwise enjoy the materials above,
though if you take it and get it published as your own work without
giving me credit everyone on the Traveller Mailing List will probably
figure it out and won't invite you to the first annual TML space shuttle ride.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 23:13:05 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: What shall we have for dinner?

> I'm getting ready to start up a campaign, and I've run into a little
snag.
> What do people eat while in jump?  How is it prepared?  I don't see a
kitchen
> on any of my deckplans!

I would have to assume that the common room would have all the needed items
for cooking...  Also, I can see at this time maybe all a smaller ship needs
is storage space for the meals, ala 2300...  Each meal is packaged like a
modern TV dinner, when you open it, a flash, one-shot heater, heats up your
food for you...  When you are done with the meal you throw it away...

> For that matter, what do we wear?  I also can't find a washing-machine.
> Disposable clothing, perhaps?

Maybe...  Although, I can see you washing your clothes in the fresher when
you take a bath...

>   --S

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:55:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Camino <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Vilani Hypothesis

I asked:
> BTW, you left off The Vilani Hypothesis.  I did not get one (was on
> auto order with IG) so I assume it wasn't published either.

Stuart L. Dollar replied:
FWIW, I wrote Vilani Hypothesis.  It IS a finished manuscript, 
complete with maps.
[snip]
Needless to say, I've never seen the first dime, and therefore 
VH remains unpublished

===============================

Here's hoping that Mr. Miller finds a publisher for T5 that has a long
history of paying it's bills.  Anyone have a good contact at Ling
Standard?



==
- ------------------------><>------------------------
IMTU 0601 tc++ tm !tn t4+ ?tg ru++ 3i pi ta+ he+ 

=>UTUP 0309 0-400A04C-5-8-2<=

You might be a Traveller fanatic if...
your resume includes a UPP and skill listing!
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 01:58:47 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re: T5

>Didja ever notice, when you're unemployed you have plenty of time to
>persue your hobbies, but no money for such indulgences?  What's up
>with that?

 GypsyComet's Second Law:
 Spare Time and Spare Money are Mutually Exclusive.

 A good friend of mine was living proof. Given a free weekend approaching
and having just paid his debts off, my friend was "called" away from his
Friday evening TV by the sound of his bathroom plumbing exploding...

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 02:13:27 -0500
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: sexually flavored content

 
> In a message dated 11/11/98 4:31:32 PM Central Standard Time,
eptitu@utu.fi
> writes:
> 
> <<  So does this mean you will no longer insist on censoring
>  "sexually-flavored content" from the game? What I really hated about
this
>  comment was the implicit statement, that violence is acceptable if you
>  really really have to, but sex is something people just don't do.
(Refers
>  to T4 rulesbook p.5 goal #5)

I may be going out on a limb here, and I'm sure Marc will correct me if I'm
wrong, but when I read that 'edict', what is said to me was that Traveller
was not going to put out supplements that had to be labelled "for mature
audiences only" as White Wolf and others have occasionally chosen to do.
(White Wolf more than occasionally, I might add.) Truthfully, except for
mentions of alien reproductive methods and maybe the occasional scandal in
the Imperial court, sex as a major subject in and of itself in Traveller is
not neccesary. Traveller is a game of science-fiction adventure, not a game
of science fiction porn or even romance. Yes, these things do happen to
real people, and if you choose to portray them in your game, more power to
you, but they don't need explicit mention in a game where they are not part
of that game's purpose. We don't need a chapter on "The Joy of Hiver Sex",
nor do we need diagrams in FF&S3 on the subject. I'd much rather space be
devoted to things like worlds, starships, the sweep of epic history, that
sorta thing. I do not think Marc was saying that "sex is something people
just don't do", I see it more as "sex as a main topic is irrelevant to what
Traveller is about, and therefore we will not publish supplements that
emphasize it."
It also keeps Traveller accessible to a potentially younger audience. You
may choose to see this as censorship; I see it as the game being kept on
topic.

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 02:27:56 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: Lost files & Hiwg CD

	Grand Explorations (one of the versions) is on the HIWG CD.
	An outline for Black Duke is also.
	Onesium Quest and other DGP material should be in Roger's files.
	Robots & Cyborgs, only made it into discussions, as well as numerous other
things. Somewhere down the road I want to add them to the HIWG CD (but there
are copyright problems involved, so anybody know any insiders at GEnie?).

Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 03:52:29 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Incendental effects of damage

> Depending on the round, there may be no visable difference between entrance
> and exit wound.  A NATO 7.62mm round will tend to punch staright through
> tissue, leaving a clean wound at both ends (unless it hits something hard,
> like bone).  A 5.56mm round will tumble, leaving a large, jagged wound

I've seen quite convincing demos of that.  Most recently M14 vs M16A2.  

Any ideas on a mechanic to say if the round actually exits the body or not?
It would factor on penetration rather than damage, I imagine.

  This would be a concern for  most all handguns etc (especially low caliber)
but not rifles... Armored targets may change everything, even for rifles...
The round penetrates but may lose enough energy to not leave an exit wound...
thus necessitating surgery to remove it.


Gary

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 23:00:09 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: sex and T5

Date sent:      	Thu, 12 Nov 1998 00:30:44 +0200 (EET)
From:           	Eppu Tuominen <eptitu@utu.fi>

>On Wed, 11 Nov 1998 CardSharks@aol.com wrote:

>> The game system should be
>> understandable and easily playable, incorporate multiple levels of complexity,
>> mesh with the real world (in so far as is possible).

> So does this mean you will no longer insist on censoring
>"sexually-flavored content" from the game? What I really hated about this
>comment was the implicit statement, that violence is acceptable if you
>really really have to, but sex is something people just don't do. (Refers
>to T4 rulesbook p.5 goal #5)

Its a very sad fact of life that the prime directive #5 is neccessary. Traveller, like 
all RPG's, has to acceptable to the parents of the teenagers who buy it. And 
yes it is very hypocritical that violence is acceptable but sex is not. However 
that is a problem that goes way beyond Traveller or any other RPG. Besides its 
not too onerous, I really wont miss the scantily clad lesbian Aslans splashed 
all over the cover of T5. There is no reason why adventures can't cover subjects 
such as love, lust and other staples of literature without being gratuatous. Sure 
I don't really expect my political intrigue adventure where the players slowly 
uncover that their employer is a peadophile will ever see the light of day, even 
though I think its a darn good adventure. But I never expected it would. However 
that doesn't mean you have to stick to Disney style. Take for instance my 
Luriani write up. It clearly portrayed the Luriani as a culture which was very 
sexual, but I don't think it would have breached prime directive #5 (Marc please 
tell me if it did).

I'd say Marc want Traveller to stay rated PG and I think its a good thing that it 
does.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 23:29:35 +1300
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: Re: Low, fast and LOUD (off-topic)

>On the underestimating front, look at the raid the RAFs Vulcan bombers made
>on Port Stanley in the Falklands back in the early 80's. It may not have
>had a major (logistical impact) but staging a strike from the UK using
>tanker support! GDW's South Atlantic War supplement for Harpoon made me
>realise just how much effort that took.


Haven't read the supplement but I was in the Air Force when that
happened, and I know the work that went into accelerating
the mods to allow the inflight refuelling of the Hercs, and have
spoken to the pilot of one of the tankers.

Bloody crazy scheme if you ask me, one plane in a flat out dive,
the other almost stalling, and _then_ you gotta line up the tubes
and refuel before you hit the deck.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:39:13 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Jumpspace physics (again!?), was Re: More question

On Thu, 12 Nov 1998, Anders Backman wrote:

> >The silverish inside wall of a big bubble in mercury-like environment
> >(covered from Stargate). Depends on who built the Jump drive
> 
> Nope, you see the blackest black possible. This is no pesky 3 K black we
> have when looking at a part of the sky free of stars, this is black in all
> wavelengths. Any kind of chromish, silvery look would melt the ship in much
> less than 1 week as all radiated heat would bounce back. IMTU.

IMTU the silverish look originates from the frequencies of visible light
refracted by the different physics of N and J-Space.
Not all frequencies are being reflected, and most of the infrared and
microwave frequencies also can penetrate the border into J-Space. 
So there's no reason to worry about overheating the ship. The excess
energy can be absorbed by J-Space.

But that's the J-drive the Vilani use (IMTU). Perhaps the Aslan's is red
(B5), the Solomani's black, the Hiver's grey, the Zhodani's blue ...
the Vargr's checkered?

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:50:35 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: Jump limits

On Wed, 11 Nov 1998, SD Mooney wrote:

> Aren't most of the worlds in the Traveller universe within 100D of this
> galaxy's mass?

IMTU this restriction belongs to single bodys with enough density, not
accumulations of bodys with a centre of gravity.
An asteroid belt would also be such an accumulation, but its density is
too low to have effects as a whole, so only the single asteroids would
'bounce off' the Jumpspace Exit that is to open at their position.

I wonder what happens if a ship exits Jumpspace at the trajectory of a
rogue comet, 100d away but in front of its heading?

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:10:10 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: One-week jump theory

On Wed, 11 Nov 1998, Craig Berry wrote:

> > Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 14:03:02 +0100 (MET)
> > From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
> > 
> > On Sun, 8 Nov 1998, Craig Berry wrote:
> >
> > I add a wavemechanics-like version for differences between the j-1
> > to j-6 routes. each of the found ones resembles an own jumpspace, which,
> > like the vibrations of a wire applied at two points, can overlay and
> > combine to standing waves.
> > 
> > For the fans of quantum mechanics: if you describe jumpspace in terms of
> > wavefunctions, J-Space 1 belongs to the first eigenvalue, and J-Space 6
> > belongs to the sixth.
> > 
> > The small differences in place and time oberved when exiting Jumpspace
> > are explained by Heisenberg's uncertainty principle applied here.
> 
> The trouble is that the jump number is just an upper bound; it's canon
> that a J-1 can be done 'in place', and I'd presume higher jumps as well,
> should you decide to waste a lot of fuel.  Also, no real-world jump is
> going to be an exact integer number of parsecs; that J-4 is probably
> really J-3.784, but only integer jump numbers are possible, so you waste
> the excess fuel.
> 
> Hm, interesting idea:  Suppose that two systems are, during a time of
> Jump-N technology, N.01 parsecs apart.  This would mean that the two are
> mutually accessible in one jump, but only with a *long* real-space run to
> make up that .01 parsec.  This would make for an interesting 'feel' for
> travel between those systems (ships would accelerate out to jump, jump
> without slowing down, then decelerate (modulo relative stellar motion) on
> the far end).

OK, now it's getting interesting. The jump distances are for game's sake
in integer numbers. The differences the real world has got could also be
explained as using the uncertainty principle, but this also works the
other way, away from the target. I suppose this is what a misjump also
would lead to. The case of doing a Jump-1 'in place' makes it in real a
'Jump-0' - as the Number always indicated the number of parsecs travelled.
Seems as we've found the 'ground state' 0 of Jump Space.

IIRC there's also the possibility of having a Jump-.5 described somewhere
in the supplements according to Ancient technology, which perhaps uses 
a complete different J-Space-continuum with also other time-trajectories.
But this indicates that there are other effects that lead to shortened or
longer routes, also as the time increment changes. I think a Jumpspace
Expert could tell you a handful of these at once, but not me.

But all these considerations only are applicable if we provide that
Jumpspace is quantized - which IMTU no one proved this far.

L.A.

Wanted: Adventurers for special physical reasearch project.
        Ship provided. No special skills needed.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 01:02:07 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Riot Control Systems

In mail you write:

>      The Boojom cartel was proud to announce today the unveiling of their
> answer to mob violence.  The Q5000 Riot Control System will revolutionise
> crowd control procedures.  "A large amount of thought and money went into
> this project" said Jax LaFayette, president of the cartel.  "We understand
> the need to keep violence under control, but at the same time realise that
> the people involved in the violence are a valuable resource."  He smiles at
> the camera "Because of that we have produced a crowd control unit that will
> stop riots of any size without permanently killing any of the rioters."  He
> went on to describe the Q5000 as "A humane, yet punishing way to deter mob
> violence."  The system is quite simple in design.  A high speed rotary mini
> gun with 6 barrels sends plastic slugs filled with 'Spazm,TM' towards the
> target.  Any contact with exposed flesh will cause all the voluntary
> muscles in the victim to contract, effectively stopping them in their
> tracks.  Anyone hit by this drug will remain cramped for 6 months, give or
> take a few days.  While it reduces your work force in the short term,
> anyone who has once experienced 'Spazm, TM'  will attempt to avoid a repeat
> experience at all costs.  The Boojom cartel has allowed the New Bermuda
> planetary police several units to be used in live trials.  The cartel hopes
> to have units ready for sale by Christmas.

In other words, you've crossed a spetzdod with a mini-gun. Don't forget
to pay royalties to Steve Perry. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 01:13:13 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Kryptonian Strephon

In mail you write:

> Yea, I realised my mistake after I sent it off.  But the Jump-6 wheelchair
> would be useful.  Didn't that guy jump off a building to his death?

No, George Reeves was shot. It was ruled a suicide, but a *lot* of
people were *real* suspicious. He'd just signed up to do 30 or 60 more
episodes, and to *direct* some of them (he wanted to get into directing).

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 01:17:47 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Rail Guns

In mail you write:

>>What would be the effect of a Mass Driver/Rail Gun/massice Gauss Rifle in
>>ship to ship combat in HG, MT, TNE, & T4?
>
> Realistically, they'll only hit stationary (non-evading) targets at
> relatively short ranges. (A mass driver round might take 30 minutes to T
> travel a hex in BL - plenty of time for a target to get out of the way.) 
> Only useful against targets that can't maneuver. Weber-esque mass-driver 
> missile launchers are similarly irrelevant; they only buy a missile 
> less than a hex per turn of extra speed. (They only matter for Weber
> becaues of technobabble - "get clear of the wedge" - that he invented
> so his ships couldn't fire all his missiles at once. Weber is exceptionally 
> bad about thinking about technological interactions...)

Actually, in *this* case, he has a point. It's not so much to get the
missiles clear of the ship's wedge as it is to get the missiles away
from from the firing vessel so that the *missile's* wedge doesn't mangle
the ship. 

The biggest "oops" I've run into is that he suffers from the same
failure to work out the numbers as too many others do. He gave the
lengths, width and mass of a large ship. Only trouble is, if you assume
that the ship is *merely* as dense as water on average, it can only be
a couple of meters thick!

His million ton ships should be *billion* ton. He doesn't "get" the
square/cube law. That is, make something 10 times as big and surface
area goes up by 1000, while mass goes up by 1000.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 01:25:22 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Statites (was jump masking)

In mail you write:

> Clive Essery wrote :-
>
>> is it possible to site a star-base in geo-stationary orbit
>> above the pole of a planet?  If so you could place one above (and
>> possibly one below) a planet and transfer all trade items to a local
>> "tramp" ship that would take the goods/people down to the planet.
>>
> Yes, if sufficient acceleration can be maintained to oppose the
> gravitational pull of the primary.
>
> Robert Forward patented the concept of the 'statite' or stationary
> satellite in 1989.
> It uses a lightsail to provide the acceleration.
> The only problem is that with current technology, you need to be about
> 200 Earth radii away to keep the sail, etc. 'aloft'.

> Note that geosync altitude is 6 Earth radii.

It's not a matter of "technology". It's just that 200 radii is where
the thrust available from the sun will hold the statite in the
un-natural "orbit".

The "height" will depend on the mass of the planet, the brightness of
the star, and the radius of the planetary orbit.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 01:31:09 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Statites (was jump masking)

In mail you write:

> At 15:57 11/11/98 +1100, Robert O'Connor wrote:
>>Clive Essery wrote :-
>>
>>> is it possible to site a star-base in geo-stationary orbit
>>> above the pole of a planet?
>
> <snip>
>
>>The only problem is that with current technology, you need to be about
>>200 Earth radii away to keep the sail, etc. 'aloft'.
>
> But in Traveller, 200 radii is exactly where you want the space station to 
> be.

Well, as I recall, its more like 200 *diameters*. 

Also, the statite has to be *farther* out if the planet masses more,
closer in if it masses less. If the star is dimmer, it has to be
farther out, if the star is brighter, it can be closer in. And you also
have to adjust closer or farther depending on the planet's orbit. 

A satellite has to balance "centrifugal force" from going around the
planet against the planet's gravity.

A statite has to balance "centrifugal force" from going around the
*star* and thrust from the star's solar wind against the gravity of
both the planet *and* of the star.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1130
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, November 12 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1131



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Re : Riot Control Systems
Re: Plot
Re: Order
Re: Spending the IISS' budget
re:  sexually flavored content
Re: Rail Guns, LHyd as a weapon
Re: LSP to produce?
re:  sexually flavored content
T5 Discussion Draft
Re: Order
Re: CANON PROBLEM 3: The Kinunir Question
Re: T5
Re: Incendental effects of damage
Re: greater range = greater chance of success?
re:  sexually flavored content
Color Coding (was: Re: T5)
Re: Ship Design question
The Cold Equations (was: Re: More question)
Re: What shall we have for dinner?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 01:39:19 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re : Riot Control Systems

In mail you write:

> Leo Hale wrote :-
> (some interesting lead-in material clipped) :-
>
>> sends plastic slugs filled with 'Spazm,TM' towards the
>> target.  Any contact with exposed flesh will cause all the voluntary
>> muscles in the victim to contract, effectively stopping them in their
>> tracks.  Anyone hit by this drug will remain cramped for 6 months, give or
>> take a few days.
>>
> Skeletal (striated) muscle vs. smooth (non-striated). You can't get more
> selective than that without antibody cocktails (not across skin) or
> nanotech (sky's the limit).
>
> Assuming simple pharmacology, this stuff will knock out your
> diaphragm and intercostal muscles, making it impossible to breathe
> (or be ventilated, if it came to that) ; and possibly cause fractures
> if the spasms are intense enough.

There are agents commonly used in surgery that selectively affect the
"voluntary" muscles. They do *not* affect the diaphragm. 

True, they are designed to "relax" the muscles in question, but if they
can do that, surely they can "lock" them just as well.

> The most effective riot control agent for a brutal regime is a 0.2% mist
> of n-heptane.
> This will induce general anaesthesia in 90% of humans that get a
> lungful (which is why some people sniff petrol or gasoline).
> Unfortunately, you're going to have a fatality rate of at least 25% due
> to the toxic effects on the heart, as well as the complications of
> unprotected airways (breathing in one's lunch, for example).
>
> N-heptane also has this advantage : you can always light it.

And if you are dispersing it in the air, the *rioters* can light it.
Fuel air explosions air not nice things to be caught in.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:20:07 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Plot

Comments;
>     The local government has asked your agency to examine a puzzle that
>they have discovered.

Q: Why doesn't the government investigate it themselves?
Possible Answer: Not the government, but a minister ("Orbital Affairs" or
somesuch) out for his/her own gain.  Deceiving or letting the players in on
a good deal.

>  A system defense boat, upon responding to a ship
>distress call, found an ancient station in a LaGrange point around the
>outermost planet of the system.

Ok, why didn't the SDB investigate?  Why send a bunch of
adventurers-for-hire out to do the government's work?

>There were no people to be found on either
>the trader or the station.  There was power to the station and the trader,
>and neither showed any signs of a struggle.  The station has been
>identified as a remnant from before the rule of man.

Identified by whom?  From how far before the RoM?  Ancients or Ziru Sirka?
I think there needs to be just a few more details here.  A lot of
information is best left in the category of "if tey ask"  This may be one
of them.  A character of Vilani stock may recognize obselete symbology on
the station, or its construction amy be so alien, and sensor readings
("corbaon dating") may give a vague indication of the station's age.

>     An insurance agency has also contacted you about finding a ship that
>has been registered as lost.  The vessel 'Lucky' has not reported in over 3
>months and it was to take a small hop to the outer planets to resupply a
>mining station at the Gas Giant.

This should be supplied by the government person, not an insurance company
that just "happens" to contact the same group.  My players would start
getting paranoid if that happened.

>     The Government has hired your agency to keep this out of the public
>?s
>eye.  If the Imperials were to discover that the station exists, the system
>would become quarantined until they had both examined the object completely
>and found nothing worth pursuing, or they were able to move it to another
>location for study.

The whole system?  must be a pretty lame economy.

>     The station is an archaeological find unsurpassed since the beginning
>of the Third Imperium.  The station was built to sustain itself
>indefinitely, with an automated maintenance system.  There are also other
>systems in the station that defy the known fact that the Vilani Empire did
>not allow any research into new and innovative ideas.  The mysteries
>regarding this station continue to multiply the further anyone explores its
>depths.

Ok, I'm really confused now.  Is this an ancient site or a Vilani station?
Or is it a combination of the two (Vilani Archeological station where an
ancient artifact was being examined?).

An interesting start.  In my opinion it needs a bit more of a generic fit
with Traveller to be published.  Of course, it also needs to be finished
out.

Pete


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:04:12 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Order

Paul Sanders Wrote;
>They are $20 each or the set for $100 (The set comes with an
>additional 'freebie' - Imperial Calendar by Bill Keith). The supplements are:
[snip]

Were you offering some kind of deal for those who bought Letter of Marque
and wanted the "freebie" but did not want another copy of LoM?

Let me know.

Pete




                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 06:15:27 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Spending the IISS' budget

>>Volume: 1,400m3                   Passengers High/Med: 0/0     Cost: 231.039 MC

>My god. And I thought the previous designs were gold-plated.
>Seriously, if you are going to spend MCr 230 on a ship, I would have more
>crew on it so you can have multiple sensor operators.

There are four staterooms...though I suppose an extra workstation would help.

It's the neutrino sensor that runs the price up. Honest. Contractor fees
and coffeemakers are completely negligible. And the carpeting is really the
cheapest my brother could sell you.

(Without the neutrino sensor it's MCr 181; without the science optimization
on the main sensor it's MCr 131.)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 06:17:07 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re:  sexually flavored content

>We don't need a chapter on "The Joy of Hiver Sex",
>nor do we need diagrams in FF&S3 on the subject. 

Might make the serious gearheads happier...

Bruce "Gearhead" Macintosh

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:30:01 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Rail Guns, LHyd as a weapon

Joseph Said;
>It may be a not-very-useful weapon for space combat, but as a turret
>level weapon for defence against boarders or in ground actions it
>might be quite useful.

In fact, the mass driver is the equivalent of the rail gun in Traveller (I
do not recall whether they use precisely the same technology).  It is,
under Megatraveller, quite deadly as a vehicle mounted weapon, but with a
range of only up to 70km.  Tech level provides an upper ROF limit of 225,
which, for a (forex) 20cm bore weapon is rather significant (note that this
requires about 30,000MW of power at 20cm,  A laser turret, at 200MW is a
better buy).

The players in my campaign installed a number of mass drivers, autocannon
and VRF Gauss guns on their starship for use against boarders and in ground
actions.  The operative question was "how much cargo space do we want to
give up for ammunition".

Incidentially, the only weapon used in the last encounter was an external
emergency liquid-hydrogen vent, at close range.  Anyone have range and
penetration on such a "weapon"?  I decided that they had to hover within 50
meters, but since the target was a mortar and stone building, the effects
were quite devastating (although most of the people had a chance to get out
first).  The material crystallized and became very brittle, collapsing
under its own weight.

Oh, and it was in a thin atmosphere, with an air temp hovering around zero
C.  Not that that should matter, much.

Pete




                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:07:46 -0500
From: Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil>
Subject: Re: LSP to produce?

Rob Camino wrote:

> Stuart L. Dollar replied:
> FWIW, I wrote Vilani Hypothesis.  It IS a finished manuscript,
> complete with maps.
> [snip]
> Needless to say, I've never seen the first dime, and therefore
> VH remains unpublished
> 
> ===============================
> 
> Here's hoping that Mr. Miller finds a publisher for T5 that has a long
> history of paying it's bills.  Anyone have a good contact at Ling
> Standard?
> 
> ==

Gentlemen:

Perhaps LSP could produce the next version.  I had to laugh when I went
to their web page and it said "Make the Jump...."

Go to http://www.lsp.com/

Greg

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:15:00 -0500 (EST)
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu>
Subject: re:  sexually flavored content

On Thu, 12 Nov 1998, Bruce Alan Macintosh wrote:

> >We don't need a chapter on "The Joy of Hiver Sex",
> >nor do we need diagrams in FF&S3 on the subject. 
> 
> Might make the serious gearheads happier...

But we _do_ need diagrams & design systems for half a dozen types of
laser, plasma, fusion, PAW, "meson", gauss, etc. weapons?  And a combat
system that accurately models tumbling vs. non-tumbling bullet wounds?  
Gimme a freakin' break.

(Yes, I know I designed the PMPP and the LIMP.)

Kenji

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:05:30 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us>
Subject: T5 Discussion Draft

T5 Discussion Draft

>Vision: The goal of T5 is to bring together the design and play
>experience of Traveller so far and create a long-lasting,
>well-thought-out science-fiction rules system for the Traveller
>universe. The game system should be understandable and easily
>playable, incorporate multiple levels of complexity, mesh with the
>real world (in so far as is possible).

The Vision statement, I believe, encompasses what a great majority of 
us want to see.

>Structure: The central rules structure of T5 consists of a core 
>rules book (T5), a companion, a technical architecture book (perhaps 
>itself divided into three volumesà ships, equipment/weapons, and 
>vehicles), and an atlas. Only T5 will appear initially. Our 
>intention is to develop the equivalent of FF&S intandem so that it 
>expands T5 rather than supplants it.

I've loved the suggestions that the core rules be relatively 
milieu-free, with a campaign sourcebook style text to bring in the 
Antares campaign setting, along with maps, library data, and UWP 
profiles.  I've especially enjoyed hearing the proposal about the 
Secrets Of The Traveller Universe sourcebook, and I hope that this is 
pursued, if not by official channels, then maybe on the TML.

>T5 Contents: The T5 volume will contain the following rules sections

>F. Worlds. World Generation. World Surfaces. Terrain. Travel
on Worlds. Encounters. Animals. 

I hope that this section includes the extended system generation, and 
at least some info on extended world details, similar to World 
Builder's Handbook.  (Unfortunately, to hope for all of it in there 
would require an entire supplement:  Worlds and Systems, the complete 
supplement for world generation and detailing.)

>New To T5. 

>Cards.

Not my thing, but I've seen them used in many games with great 
success, if I understand them correctly.  I'm not to sure if I want 
to see a Magic: the Gathering craze sweep the Imperium, though.  :)

>Charts. The focus of T5 is the chart pages which detail how to do
>things succinctly and clearly. The rules text then gives examples
>and discussion of this material.

This is one of the best ways I've seen to present information.  MT 
made great use of this technique, and I personally prefer it.

>More Aliens in the General Population. As opposed to everyone being
>human.

I like this concept, so long as the integrity of Traveller's efforts 
to keep aliens well-thought out is maintained.  I don't want to see 
things boil down to AD&D "Elves, dwarves and humans" generic 
stereotypes.

>Tasks integrated into everything. Rather than just tacked on.

I like that concept.  MT tried to do this with CT, and it is my 
preferred system because of that.  Not sure I like the T4 system 
(haven't played it), and what I've seen of T4 and T5 seem very 
similar.  However, it's all Traveller, and I'll support the game 
either way.

>More detached duty. As a result, naval characters can have ships and
>be part of the adventuring. So can scouts. And Scholars. 

Again, I like the concept, and am happy to see this addition.

>Expanded system for wounds and fighting. Which allows for non-combat
>injury (accidents, cold, heat, vacuum, and such. This in turn opens
>the opportunity for weapons and devices which can impose damage 
>other than just hits (so nukes can impose burns and radiation as 
>well as blast). High tech weapons can do the same.

I'll reserve judgment on whether this is good or not until I can see 
how it will work out game mechanically.  It sounds like a lot of 
potential though, and one that can be very, very rewarding.  Perhaps 
Robert O'Conner might have some interesting suggestions in this 
area...  :)

Thank you, Marc, for keeping the game alive.  We appreciate the hard 
work and effort you've put into making Traveller what it is, and what 
it is to become.

Thanks,
Jason

============================
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer I
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375

Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:10:12 -0700
From: Sanders <timmon@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Order

At 09:04 AM 11/12/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Paul Sanders Wrote;
>>They are $20 each or the set for $100 (The set comes with an
>>additional 'freebie' - Imperial Calendar by Bill Keith). The supplements
are:
>[snip]
>
>Were you offering some kind of deal for those who bought Letter of Marque
>and wanted the "freebie" but did not want another copy of LoM?
>
>Let me know.

Sorry but no. There are several reasons why, some of which I can't go into
detail about per Marc's 'request'. Suffice it to say that I can give away
the freebies, but if any charge is made - even to cover cost - then I am
required to purchase another license. I'm also using any extra money
generated for the sale of sets (versus individual supplements) to pay Bill
Keith for the use of his artwork in both the supplements and the calendar.
I'm not required to do this - Marc owns the artwork - but I feel that
Bill's work greatly enhances the supplements, and it is only right that he
should receive at least a token payment.

L8r,
Paul 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:33:08 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: CANON PROBLEM 3: The Kinunir Question

Jeff Beeler wrote:
> 
> In the GDW game Fifth Frontier War the warrant is generic and can be
> used by any Imperial admiral in the game to assume top seniority.
> Hence maybe the thing is blank until its filled in.

> > Note that in this scenario Strephon has been a bit sloppy with an
> > Imperial Warrant to not notice it was missing for _18_ years.  You can
> > either assume that this 1) is necessary for the scenario 2) is about all
> > the level of attention to detail that you can expect from any Emperor of
> > Trillions 3) is an indication that Strephon has some problems (further
> > indicated by MT's Rebellion) or 4) (my favorite) a bit of all of these.

There are a number of canon references to blank pieces of Imperial
stationery, useable to forge warrants of the forger is willing to take
the risks...

In SM Norris explicitly states that he overstepped his bounds and that
Strephon could have had his head on a platter over the Warrant taking
control of the fleet, and of the warrant making him archduke. Remember
Norris is a spook...most of his time he was Naval Intel...he would be
used to the "forgiveness is easier to obtain than permission" school.

If Strephon hasn't read his classics, the Warrant read something like
"The bearer has done what he has done with the permission of the
Emperor---<signed> Richelieu ^h^h^h^h Strephon" ;-) Blank checks like
these are necessary for agents to act of their own initiative in unknown
situations, but can come back to bite the writer on the a** if they fall
into the wrong hands.

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:03:24 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: T5

At 09:32 AM 11/11/98 -0700, you wrote:
>I feel like M:0 has already been done (at least to some extent).  I
>would be more interested in having T5 be set in a different mileu.  My
>suggestion would be the Civil War period.

Or just after the war, during the Arbellatra Regency.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:19:19 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Incendental effects of damage

At 03:52 AM 11/12/98 EST, you wrote:

>Any ideas on a mechanic to say if the round actually exits the body or not?
>It would factor on penetration rather than damage, I imagine.

Oddly enough, I'd say that if the attack did low damage, odds are the
bullet has left the body.  To paraphrase my sniping instructor, you want
that round to play pinball on the target's ribs.  High damage indicates a
round that expended all of it's energy inside your victim.  Low damage
damage probably means a clean punch through soft tissue.  You'll still hurt
him from hydrostatic shock, blood loss, and gross tissue damage, but not as
badly.

- --

Douglas E. Berry
Pawn of the Droyne Conspiracy.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

UTUP: 0304 B-662D37B-5-5-2

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:15:21 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: greater range = greater chance of success?

At 01:29 PM 11/11/98 -0700, you wrote:

>So, this gives rise to another question. How do you handle spectacular
>success in this kind of situation? I shoot a target at medium range, even 
>though my gun can't penetrate the armor. I roll spectacular success. So
>what?

Think of something spectacular.  Against a BD-wearing opponent.. perhaps
your shot hits his sensors/visor, momentarily blinding him, allowing you to
escape.  The shot hits and disables his weapon.  The shot hits the suit's
knee joint, locking one leg in place.

None of these do damage, but allow the player the chance to take advantage
of the unusual situation.
- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:30:46 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: re:  sexually flavored content

At 06:17 AM 11/12/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>>We don't need a chapter on "The Joy of Hiver Sex",
>>nor do we need diagrams in FF&S3 on the subject. 

<sing>
Hands across the Hinterworlds
Hands across this sector of mine..
</sing>

>Might make the serious gearheads happier...

I'm just picturing Andy's spreadsheet on the topic...
- --

+--------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net  |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/    |
+--------------------------------------+
| "Oh, My God.. they killed STREPHON!  | 
|  You Bastards!!!!                    |
|                -Grand Admiral Kyle   |
+--------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:35:03 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Color Coding (was: Re: T5)

I'm really starting to warm to the idea of color-coding the T5 books for
different milleu.  Some suggestions.

Red: Core books.  The basic rules, FFS3, any generic, cross-milieu item

Orange: Milieu:0

Yellow: Civil War/Arbellatra Regency

Green: Interstellar Wars

Blue: Classic Era

This is actually the order I'd like to see the Milieu released.
- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:01:48 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Ship Design question

At 11:37 AM 11/11/98 EST, you wrote:

>	 Can anyone out there design a canonical, everyday Type S scout >courier,
with the canonical performance specs (i.e. 100dt, Jump-2, 2-G >Thrusters,
etc..) with FF&S2?  This may seem a silly question, but it meant >in all
seriousness.

Ask, and ye shall recieve...

Baden-Powell, Type-S class Scout (FF&S v2)
Designed by Douglas Berry

Statistics
Tons: 100std ( AF Wedge Hypersonic )
Volume: 1400m3
Dimensions: 35m x 24m x 10m
Mass (L/C): 1630t/1427t
Crew: 2/3
Cargo: 13std (1/00)
Cost: 44.382 MCr
Maintenance Points: 22
Tech Level: 15
Size: 8

Electronics
Controls: Holographic, High automation. 3xComp (CM:0.5 CP:2.0).
 Terrain following sensors (TF:570, NOE:190). No bridge.

Communications: 1xRadio (500,000km, 0.17MW). 1xLaser (1,000AU, 0MW).

Sensors: 1xPEMS (13 [5mkm], 0MW). 1xAEMS (10, 0.05MW). 1xLIDAR (13.5 
[50kkm], 0.01MW).
Survey/Science: none
ECM: none
Signatures: Vis:-0.5, IR:-0.5 (-0.5 at 107MW, -1 at 14MW), Act:0.5,
Neu:-1, Grav:0

Performance
2               Jump (10std/pc fuel)
1.9/2.2         Maneuver (Thruster:77MW)
0.9/1           Contra-grav (24MW)
2303kph/2605kph Atmosphere Maximum
1727kph/1954kph Atmosphere Cruise
3               Power (Fusion:138MW,1yr)
21              Fuel (Scoop:0 /Purif:24,1MW)
0/4/0/0/0       Accomodations (4 small staterooms)
40              Life Sup.(Type:Standard, Good Food/Storage facility)
2               G-Comp
40 [200]        Armor
6               Structure

Weaponry

1x 110Mj Laser Turret (+6) 1/2-2-2-2 [1,100/26-26-26-26] (LR)

Features
1xAirlock
1xDocking Umbilical
1xShip's locker (0.05std ea.)
1xOrdinary Galley (Cap:4)

Small Craft
1xMinHgr (4std, 1 hatches) [air/raft, or similar]

Crew Details
2xMnvr. 1xGunn.

This is a minimalist approach.  The 13 ton cargo bay could easily be
concerted to other uses, including improved sensors (at a great increase in
cost), additional weaponry, or a small hanger of some sort (possibly for a
Marine Special Operations Team?)

The cost includes a 20% discount for the standard design.

- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:22:03 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: The Cold Equations (was: Re: More question)

At 09:40 AM 11/12/98 +1000, you wrote:

>Have you read "The Cold Equations," by Tom Godwin, published in 1954? It's
>a classic story, somewhat chilling, about a stowaway on a spacecraft that
>has a limited fuel & air supply. The unalterable laws of physics determine
>that there are resources for only one person to survive.

What's chilling is that anyone would boost without looking inside the
ship's closet!

Doug.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:48:30 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: What shall we have for dinner?

At 06:37 PM 11/11/98 -0500, you wrote:

>Took the question right out of my mouth.  And what do they look like?  Are
>they all still variations on porcelain flush basins, or can the gearheads
>on the list suggest any high-tech options?

Without getting too gross, you could make very low friction basins to
handle solid and liquid waste.  They would require very little water to
convey the wastes to a recycling plant.

On that note, I saw an interesting show last night about NASA's
preparations for a manned Mars mission.  They have a mock up of a habitat
where four people have been living for over two months.  Evidently, they
are filtering the water with 100% efficiency.

>Likewise, what about bathing?  What sorts of shower gadgetry will TL A+
>put aboard starships?

The old stand-by, the sonic shower is an option.  The last time I was in
hospital, I was bathed using a series of chemicals that did a good job of
cleaning me with out water.  They came in a powder that was rubbed into my
skin, then toweled off.  From what I understood, they take of the top layer
of dead cells from your skin, along with the dirt.  A similar item is
available for dry shampoo.  These aren't a complete substitute for regular
bathing, but would suffice for a week or two.
- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1131
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, November 12 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1132



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Scout
FFS2 question
Re: Color Coding (was: Re: T5)
Color Coding (was: Re: T5)
Scout (T4 Stats)
Re: Kryptonian Strephon
Re: LSP to produce?
Re: Scout (T4 Stats)
Re: sexually flavored content
Re: What shall we have for dinner?
Re: What shall we have for dinner?
Dexterity damage: was Re: sexually flavored content
Re: Color Coding (was: Re: T5) 
Re: LSP to produce? 
RE: T5
Re: T5 Discussion Draft
Re: T5 Discussion Draft
Re: T5 Discussion Draft
Re[2]: T5
Re[2]: T5
Re: T5 (Minor Races)
Re: Color Coding (was: Re: T5)
Re: Color Coding (was: Re: T5) More
Re: T5 Discussion Draft 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:09:29 -0800
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Scout

     The following scout was designed with the Relic builder Excell
program.

General Data
Displacement: 100 tons                   Hull Armor: 50
Length: 34.9 meters                Volume: 1400 m3
Price: MCr 54.1                    Target Size: S
Configuration: Streamlined Wedge (2.25:2:1)                  Tech Level: 15
Mass (Loaded/Empty): 857.3 / 611.8

Engineering Data
"Power Plant: 157 MW Fusion Power Plant, 1 year duration (15.7 m3 fuel)"

Jump Performance: 2 (210 m3 fuel)
"G-Rating: 2G HEPlaR (50 MW/G), High-Efficiency CG Lifter (10 MW)"

"G-Turns: 45 (J1: 61.8; 78.6 using all jump fuel), 6.3 m3 fuel each"

Maint: 25

Electronics
"Computer: TL-15 Fibre-optic computer (1.1 MW), 2xTL-15 Standard computer
(0.55 MW)"
"Commo: Maser (1000 AU; 0.6 MW), Radio (1000 AU; 20 MW)"
"Avionics: Imaging EMS, inertial/gravitational positioning, 190 km/h NOE"

"Sensors: AEMS (10 hex; 15 MW), PEMS (3 hex; 0.06 MW), "
ECM/ECCM: None
"Controls: Bridge with 2 bridge workstations, 2 normal workstations, ,
Standard Automation"

Armament
Offensive: None
Defensive: None
Master Fire Directors: None

Accommodations
"Life Support: Extended (1383 m3 supported volume; 0.277 MW), Artifical
Grav/CG (6.915 MW)"
"Crew: 4 (2xManeuver, 1xElectronics, 1xEngineer)"
Crew Accommodations: 4xSmall Stateroom (0.5 kW)
Passengers: None
Passenger Accommodations: None

Other Facilities: None

"Cargo: 210 m3 (15 tons), 1 Large Hatches"

Small Craft and Launch Facilities: 10-ton minimal hangar

Air Locks: 1

Notes
Total Fuel Tankage: 507 m3 (36.2 tons)

"Fuel scoops (10% of ship surface), fills tanks in 0.9 hours"

"Fuel purification machinery (1.1MW), 13.8 hours to refine 507 m3."

0.6 MW power surplus

     I also was unable to keep the cost down.  I will try again.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:18:20 CST
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@itds.com>
Subject: FFS2 question

Is there a program/spreadsheet available on the web which can design
FFS2 starships?

If so, can it handle TL 9 starships, and TL 7 non-starships?


DonM.
- --
==========================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist             dmckinne@itds.com =
= International Telecommunications Data Systems           (217) 239-8365 =
= 2109 Fox Drive, Champaign, IL                           (217) 351-8250 =
= Winter War XXVI Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 5-7, 1999 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org     (217) 469-9917 = 
==========================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:23:02 -0500
From: Glenn Myers <glenn.myers@mailhub.ansys.com>
Subject: Re: Color Coding (was: Re: T5)

I also like the idea of the various time settings to be released as
Supplements for the core rules. However, I'm sure this will cause a lot
of disagreement concerning the order of release. 
dberry@hooked.net wrote:
> 
> I'm really starting to warm to the idea of color-coding the T5 books for
> different milleu.  Some suggestions.
> 

Color coded setting book list snipped...

> 
> This is actually the order I'd like to see the Milieu released.

The various factions each have their own purchasing power and a near
simultaneous publishing would be optimal. 

I for one never bought T4 partially because I was following a TNE
Regency timeline and M:0 was of little or no interest to me. To get me
to make a large investment, (i.e. beyond FFS3) I want a post-virus 4th
Imperium setting. If nothing else, I want some closure on Lucan's Virus
empire and the Black Curtain. 

I will always treasure the thrill I got from first picking up the War!
issue of the Travllers Digest. I had the feeling of empire-shaking
history in motion. Likewise, I remember where I was when I learned of
Strephon's assasination (State College, PA gaming store). Virus, I
learned about on the TML. I didn't like all the details but I made minor
adaptions and bought it all. 

My point is that each of the incarnations of Traveller except M:0 has
had a shocking historical event which drove me to want to know more
about the new storyline. I think that may be  essential to the success
of T5.

Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong...

Bye, 

Glenn


______________________________________________________

Glenn E. Myers
ANSYS Inc.                Email: glenn.myers@ansys.com
275 Technology Drive      Phone: (724) 514-2913
Canonsburg, PA 15317      Fax:   (724) 514-3118
______________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:32:05 -0700
From: scharlto@ifsna.com
Subject: Color Coding (was: Re: T5)

And perhaps a band of white for 'generic' (non-background specific) books?

Personally, I'd like to see the Interstellar Wars before the Civil War;
even before the Mileu:0 re-try.  But having no real life of willpower, I'll
probably buy it all anyway, assuming we exceed IG qualtiy.

I'm glad to see Marc is actually moving along with this; Gurps Traveller is
interesting, but in the long run not what I am looking for.  Of course,
that hasn't stopped me from buying and enjoying the GURPS Traveller books.

Yours wishy-washyly
Steve Charlton

- - - - - - - - - - - -

dberry@hooked.net said

I'm really starting to warm to the idea of color-coding the T5 books for
different milleu.  Some suggestions.

Red: Core books.  The basic rules, FFS3, any generic, cross-milieu item

Orange: Milieu:0

Yellow: Civil War/Arbellatra Regency

Green: Interstellar Wars

Blue: Classic Era

This is actually the order I'd like to see the Milieu released.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:33:43 -0800
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Scout (T4 Stats)

     The following is a TL-15 Scout in T4 stats.

T4 Starship Data
Ship or Class Name and Type (Starship-V2)

Tons: 100 (Wedge SL)          Volume: 1400 m3                Cost: 61.361
MCr
Crew: 4                  High/Mid Pass: 0               Low Pass: 0
Cargo: 20 tons           Controls: Fib(Bridge)               TL: 15

8 Size                   2 Jump Drive (10 tons/Pc Fuel)
0 Fire Control           "2 Maneuver (HEPlaR, 110.6 MW)"
                    3.1 Power Plant (157 MW)
                    "30 Fuel (Scoop 8, Refine 2.4)"
                    0 Meson Screen (0 MW)
                    0 Sandcasters (0 cans)
                    0 Nuclear Damper
1xminimal hangar (10-ton)     10A 3P 0J Sensors/EM Masking
                    "20 Armor, 6 Structure"


     Still can't keep the cost down as low as the book.  I wounder where
they fudges the cost
to keep it so low?

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:38:59 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Kryptonian Strephon

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> > Yea, I realised my mistake after I sent it off.  But the Jump-6 wheelchair
> > would be useful.  Didn't that guy jump off a building to his death?
> 
> No, George Reeves was shot. It was ruled a suicide, but a *lot* of
> people were *real* suspicious. He'd just signed up to do 30 or 60 more
> episodes, and to *direct* some of them (he wanted to get into directing).
>

I just saw some cheesy Hollywood Expose type show about Reeves. There
was more than a little evidence he _didn't_ shoot himself. There were
something like six or seven bullet holes in the room where he shot
himself, he had recently broken of a long relationship with the wife of
a _very_ highly placed studio exec, and there were other holes in the
case as well.

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:43:13 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: LSP to produce?

Greg Smith wrote:
 
> Perhaps LSP could produce the next version.  I had to laugh when I went
> to their web page and it said "Make the Jump...."
> 

Actually, this would be far more up Makhidkaurn's alley...they deal more
in Entertainment than Ling Standard Products...;-)

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:06:22 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Scout (T4 Stats)

Leo Hale wrote:
> 

>      Still can't keep the cost down as low as the book.  I wounder where
> they fudges the cost
> to keep it so low?

Did you include the mass discount? The book costs are so low because the
Imperium orders the things by the gross...

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:11:17 -0500
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: Re: sexually flavored content

> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:15:00 -0500 (EST)
> From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu>
> Subject: re:  sexually flavored content
> 
> On Thu, 12 Nov 1998, Bruce Alan Macintosh wrote:
> 
> > >We don't need a chapter on "The Joy of Hiver Sex",
> > >nor do we need diagrams in FF&S3 on the subject. 
> > 
> > Might make the serious gearheads happier...
> 
> But we _do_ need diagrams & design systems for half a dozen types of
> laser, plasma, fusion, PAW, "meson", gauss, etc. weapons?  And a combat
> system that accurately models tumbling vs. non-tumbling bullet wounds?  
> Gimme a freakin' break.

Traveller is a game about technology. It is about more than that, of
course, but it is. It is not a game about doing the nasty in zero-gee.
That's what my point was.

And no, we don't need a combat system that complicated. In fact, I would
HATE to see what is essentially a simple game polluted with that kind of
stuff. For one thing, "accurately" modelling anything is pretty subjective
in a game where your first three stats are your hit points; when's the last
time you took damage to your Dexterity? let the realism freaks design their
own cumbersome systems; Traveller should go no farther into combat
"realism" than say Snapshot or maybe TNE (with more reasonable hit point
totals) and leave it at that, IMO.

I admit, I read the medical stuff that has come down the pike. I'm sure the
author is highly knowledgeable. There is no flippin' way I would even DREAM
of using that stuff. Adds way too much complexity.

Besides, GURPS already does that stuff, and does it relatively simply
compared to other games I have seen that have tried it.

Allen
 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:59:33 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: What shall we have for dinner?

Eris Reddoch wrote:

> And where are the restrooms?  Do they keep a slop jar under their
> bunk? ;->

Naw, by now it's a vacuum dohicky...

- --
Ave et vale.
Evyn,
Warleader of the Clan MacDude
Solus Stellamilitia Ludus, 1998 Œ

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 23:00:55 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: What shall we have for dinner?

Smart, David J (David) wrote:

> Nope. *Edible* clothing. (And that's all I'm going to say.)

 What no Menu?!?

- --
Ave et vale.
Evyn,
Warleader of the Clan MacDude
Solus Stellamilitia Ludus, 1998 Œ

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:45:06 -0700
From: "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
Subject: Dexterity damage: was Re: sexually flavored content

> And no, we don't need a combat system that complicated. In fact, I would
> HATE to see what is essentially a simple game polluted with that kind of
> stuff. For one thing, "accurately" modelling anything is pretty subjective
> in a game where your first three stats are your hit points; when's the last
> time you took damage to your Dexterity? let the realism freaks design their
> own cumbersome systems; Traveller should go no farther into combat
> "realism" than say Snapshot or maybe TNE (with more reasonable hit point
> totals) and leave it at that, IMO.

Actually, the last time my arm was in a cast my dexterity 
was damaged pretty badly.  Ask the person with a leg in a 
cast or with a permanent limp the same question.  

Endurance is the same flavor. The ability to play Energizer 
Bunny is severely reduced in someone sick or injured. The 
location of the wound probably doesn't effect that too 
terribly much as it is a strain on the system to heal.

Suz

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:46:47 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Color Coding (was: Re: T5) 

> I'm really starting to warm to the idea of color-coding the T5 books for
> different milleu.  Some suggestions.
> 
> Red: Core books.  The basic rules, FFS3, any generic, cross-milieu item
> 
> Orange: Milieu:0
> 
> Yellow: Civil War/Arbellatra Regency
> 
> Green: Interstellar Wars
> 
> Blue: Classic Era
> 
> This is actually the order I'd like to see the Milieu released.

Not a bad idea.  But what color do we use for variant Milieu to use?

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:51:11 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: LSP to produce? 

> Greg Smith wrote:
>  
> > Perhaps LSP could produce the next version.  I had to laugh when I went
> > to their web page and it said "Make the Jump...."
> > 
> 
> Actually, this would be far more up Makhidkaurn's alley...they deal more
> in Entertainment than Ling Standard Products...;-)

Just as long as General Products doesn't put it out.  Their ships are *JUNK*.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:59:23 CST
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@itds.com>
Subject: RE: T5

About Traveller having more minor races...  I don't know.  At the moment,
my only objection to "Behind the Claw" is that it seems like I keep 
running into new minor races everytime I look at it...

"Here a race, there a race, everywhere a minor race
Ol' Duke Norris had a sector, ei, ei, oh..."


DonM.
- --
==========================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist             dmckinne@itds.com =
= International Telecommunications Data Systems           (217) 239-8365 =
= 2109 Fox Drive, Champaign, IL                           (217) 351-8250 =
= Winter War XXVI Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 5-7, 1999 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org     (217) 469-9917 = 
==========================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 14:30:05 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: T5 Discussion Draft

In a message dated 11/12/98 10:07:09 AM Central Standard Time,
Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us writes:

<< I've loved the suggestions that the core rules be relatively 
 milieu-free, with a campaign sourcebook style text to bring in the 
 Antares campaign setting, along with maps, library data, and UWP 
 profiles.  >>

I have talked before about multiple entry points to the system.When there is a
central rules book, then every other product needs to refer back to it (and
often to half a dozen other products as well). And since you can't be sure the
players have those books, we face real restrictions on what we can usefully
do.

At the same time, players want to be able to USE the rules book they buy.

I envision a milieu-specific basic rules book (which is, at the moment
oriented toward Antares circa 0198). A multiple milieu rule book needs to show
(for example, the ranks that Rule Of Man navy uses, the types of ships early
Terran's built, and the world generation system for the Vilani Empire, in
addition to the Imperial M:0 stuff).

I envision (for example) a later product called The Interstellar Wars. It
would be, like the basic rules book above, a stand-alone book, but it would
have the world generation material altered to reflect Terran and Vilani worlds
circa 2300 AD. It would deal in more detail with space combat, and talk about
Terran and Vilani ships. And it would be all in one volume so the player isn't
casting about for this book or that one.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 14:31:11 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: T5 Discussion Draft

In a message dated 11/12/98 10:07:09 AM Central Standard Time,
Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us writes:

<< >Cards.
 
 Not my thing, but I've seen them used in many games with great 
 success, if I understand them correctly.  I'm not to sure if I want 
 to see a Magic: the Gathering craze sweep the Imperium, though.  :)
  >>

These are cards for reference and use in play, not trading cards. There should
be no confusion on what they are used for.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 14:32:50 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: T5 Discussion Draft

In a message dated 11/12/98 10:07:09 AM Central Standard Time,
Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us writes:

<< >Charts. The focus of T5 is the chart pages which detail how to do
 >things succinctly and clearly. The rules text then gives examples
 >and discussion of this material.
 
 This is one of the best ways I've seen to present information.  MT 
 made great use of this technique, and I personally prefer it.
 
  >>

I had a continuing struggle with IG, insisting that the writers do their
charts first and then write text around them, and being ignored time and
again. Good role-playing writing has to concentrate on charts and information,
not on narrative.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 98 11:27:27 pst
From: "Jesse Degraff" <Jesse_DeGraff@smtplink.acer.com>
Subject: Re[2]: T5

     ROFL!  <co-workers looking funny at me>


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: RE: T5
Author:  traveller@MPGN.COM at smtplink-acs
Date:    11/12/98 11:10 AM


About Traveller having more minor races...  I don't know.  At the moment, 
my only objection to "Behind the Claw" is that it seems like I keep 
running into new minor races everytime I look at it...
     
"Here a race, there a race, everywhere a minor race 
Ol' Duke Norris had a sector, ei, ei, oh..."
     
     
DonM.
- --
========================================================================== 
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist             dmckinne@itds.com = 
= International Telecommunications Data Systems           (217) 239-8365 = 
= 2109 Fox Drive, Champaign, IL                           (217) 351-8250 = 
= Winter War XXVI Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 5-7, 1999 = 
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org     (217) 469-9917 = 
==========================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 98 11:27:27 pst
From: "Jesse Degraff" <Jesse_DeGraff@smtplink.acer.com>
Subject: Re[2]: T5

     ROFL!  <co-workers looking funny at me>


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: RE: T5
Author:  traveller@MPGN.COM at smtplink-acs
Date:    11/12/98 11:10 AM


About Traveller having more minor races...  I don't know.  At the moment, 
my only objection to "Behind the Claw" is that it seems like I keep 
running into new minor races everytime I look at it...
     
"Here a race, there a race, everywhere a minor race 
Ol' Duke Norris had a sector, ei, ei, oh..."
     
     
DonM.
- --
========================================================================== 
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist             dmckinne@itds.com = 
= International Telecommunications Data Systems           (217) 239-8365 = 
= 2109 Fox Drive, Champaign, IL                           (217) 351-8250 = 
= Winter War XXVI Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 5-7, 1999 = 
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org     (217) 469-9917 = 
==========================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 14:37:01 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: T5 (Minor Races)

In a message dated 11/12/98 1:01:02 PM Central Standard Time,
dmckinne@itds.com writes:

<< About Traveller having more minor races.. >>

I have put out a small number of Minor Race Generation rules drafts and I'm
waiting for feedback.

One element of Minor Races is that (although you can encounter them anywhere)
you generally find 99% of their citizens within, say, 10 parsecs of their
homeworld.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 14:40:58 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Color Coding (was: Re: T5)

In a message dated 11/12/98 12:50:03 PM Central Standard Time,
jamstar@glasscity.net writes:

<< > I'm really starting to warm to the idea of color-coding the T5 books for
 > different milleu.  Some suggestions. >>

The actual color coding will be defined later. As to milieux, I see the
following:

T5 (set about 198 and concetrating in Antares)
First Contact. Solar System pre-jump leading up to the discovery of jump.
The Interstellar Wars. Emphasizes space combat between Terrans and Vilani.
The Rule of Man
The Long Night.
(M:0)
(Antares circa 0198)
The Barracks Emperors
The Psionic Suppressions.

Two others I would love to do are

The Far Far Future (circa 2000)
Grandfather's Children (including uplifted humans running around in automated
ships doing Grandfather's bidding).

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 14:41:54 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Color Coding (was: Re: T5) More

In a message dated 11/12/98 12:50:03 PM Central Standard Time,
jamstar@glasscity.net writes:

<< > I'm really starting to warm to the idea of color-coding the T5 books for
 > different milleu.  Some suggestions. >>

And one last thought...

Faraway Sector. A kit/boxed set with blank maps and everything you need to set
up a sector on the edge of charted space.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 14:48:05 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: T5 Discussion Draft 

> In a message dated 11/12/98 10:07:09 AM Central Standard Time,
> Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us writes:
> 
> << >Cards.
>  
>  Not my thing, but I've seen them used in many games with great 
>  success, if I understand them correctly.  I'm not to sure if I want 
>  to see a Magic: the Gathering craze sweep the Imperium, though.  :)
>   >>
> 
> These are cards for reference and use in play, not trading cards. There should
> be no confusion on what they are used for.

Cool.  Trading cards in an RPG are ridiculous, IMNSFBHO.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1132
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, November 12 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1133



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: T5 Discussion Draft 
Re: T5 Discussion Draft
Re: William Keith
Re: Color Coding (was: Re: T5) More
Re: William Keith
FF&S errata (RE: Scout (T4 Stats))
T5 Possible settings...
Re: T5 Possible settings...
FF&S question
Re: Spending the IISS' budget
GT: Return of the Ancients?
Re: sexually flavored content
Re: T5 Discussion Draft
Re: Color Coding (was: Re: T5)
Re: Spending the IISS' budget
Re: Color Coding (was: Re: T5)
Re: Scout (T4 Stats)
Re: T5 Discussion Draft
Re: LSP to produce?
Re: Color Coding (was: Re: T5) 
Re: Low, fast and LOUD (off-topic)
Re: Color Coding (was: Re: T5) 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 14:52:12 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: T5 Discussion Draft 

> I have talked before about multiple entry points to the system.When there is a
> central rules book, then every other product needs to refer back to it (and
> often to half a dozen other products as well). And since you can't be sure the
> players have those books, we face real restrictions on what we can usefully
> do.

So a milieu writer could write the basic chrome and setting for use with the 
core rules?  And all they'd have to include in the new book is just the 
'detailing rules' for their milieu?  This is a Good Thing...

> I envision (for example) a later product called The Interstellar Wars. It
> would be, like the basic rules book above, a stand-alone book, but it would
> have the world generation material altered to reflect Terran and Vilani worlds
> circa 2300 AD. It would deal in more detail with space combat, and talk about
> Terran and Vilani ships. And it would be all in one volume so the player isn't
> casting about for this book or that one.

But what about the Milieu:1200 and beyond eras?

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:03:06 -0500
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com>
Subject: Re: T5 Discussion Draft

Marc,

I think overall that your outline sounds very good. I think that it's
a good didea to try to keep the core rules simple and have an optional, 
more complex set of rules that remain consistent, so that you don't end 
up with bolted-on rulesets (like FF&S2/QSDS/SSDS).

> I envision (for example) a later product called The Interstellar Wars. It
> would be, like the basic rules book above, a stand-alone book, but it would
> have the world generation material altered to reflect Terran and Vilani worlds
> circa 2300 AD. It would deal in more detail with space combat, and talk about
> Terran and Vilani ships. And it would be all in one volume so the player isn't
> casting about for this book or that one.

Woo-hoo! My dream come true! Please just keep in mind that the 
Interstellar Wars period will not resemble anything Traveller, except 
for the Vilani and Jump drives. No air/rafts, very little inertial
compensation in ships and lot and lots of space battles. (Maybe even 
an excuse for piracy finally!). Very cool.

Ethan
- --
Ethan Henry                                            egh@klg.com
Java Evangelist, KL Group                       http://www.klg.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:09:05 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: William Keith

>From: Sanders <timmon@primenet.com>
>Subject: Re: Order
...
>generated for the sale of sets (versus individual supplements) to pay Bill
>Keith for the use of his artwork in both the supplements and the calendar.
>I'm not required to do this - Marc owns the artwork - but I feel that
>Bill's work greatly enhances the supplements, and it is only right that he
>should receive at least a token payment.

  I'm certainly not going to argue about either of the Keiths' contributions
to Traveller - as far as I'm concerned they're (Trav-inactive) Great Old Ones.
Do you happen to have the URL to William Keiths web-page where he lists the
books he's authored and his current projects?

        Steven Hudson

From an unrelated list:
>>Oh, and BTW, there is an Italian fully automatic shotgun available on the
market. 
>
>  I wouldn't have thought that were enough Traveller players out there
>to form a viable market.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:23:59 -0500
From: Glenn Myers <glenn.myers@mailhub.ansys.com>
Subject: Re: Color Coding (was: Re: T5) More

Absolutely! Over the past 15 years my own sector has bounced around
behaind the claw as various sectors were covered by released
supplements. It has has resided in Trojan Reaches, Vanguard, and Far
Frontiers sectors. Just where is Faraway supposed to be
astrographically?

No canonical references to any events in any of the Milleu, right? ...
What a playground!

CardSharks@aol.com wrote:
> 
> And one last thought...
> 
> Faraway Sector. A kit/boxed set with blank maps and everything you need to set
> up a sector on the edge of charted space.
> 
> Marc

- -- 
______________________________________________________

Glenn E. Myers
ANSYS Inc.                Email: glenn.myers@ansys.com
275 Technology Drive      Phone: (724) 514-2913
Canonsburg, PA 15317      Fax:   (724) 514-3118
______________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:26:57 -0500
From: Glenn Myers <glenn.myers@mailhub.ansys.com>
Subject: Re: William Keith

The most recent one I had was 

http://www.westol.com/~whkeith/ 

But it doesn't seem to work anymore :-(

Steven Hudson wrote:
> 
> 
>   I'm certainly not going to argue about either of the Keiths' contributions
> to Traveller - as far as I'm concerned they're (Trav-inactive) Great Old Ones.
> Do you happen to have the URL to William Keiths web-page where he lists the
> books he's authored and his current projects?
> 
>         Steven Hudson

______________________________________________________

Glenn E. Myers
ANSYS Inc.                Email: glenn.myers@ansys.com
275 Technology Drive      Phone: (724) 514-2913
Canonsburg, PA 15317      Fax:   (724) 514-3118
______________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 14:24:19 -0600
From: "Benada, Rob" <BenadaR@mycogen.com>
Subject: FF&S errata (RE: Scout (T4 Stats))

>   Still can't keep the cost down as low as the book.  I wounder where
> they fudges the cost to keep it so low?
> Leo

In MT, FFS1 and  FFS2 jump drives are way over priced for the volume:
0.3 Mcr per m^3 when it should be 0.3 Mcr per Displacement Ton. As a
result the J-Drives are 14 times too expensive when compared to CT, High
Guard and T4 basic design.

The error was introduced in MT when they went to m^3 and has been
propagated ever sense. 

I have not noted this in any of the errata for any of these
publications. 

Or it could be just another instance of the MegaCorps trying to squeeze
the small guy.

- - Snork

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 14:40:06 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us>
Subject: T5 Possible settings...

I really enjoy the thoughts of the possibilities presented by each of 
the settings listed by Marc as directions for T5 Sourcebooks.  
Currently, I know that several of these areas have already begun to 
be defined by some of the avid gamers on the list and on the web.  I 
myself am working on a First Contact campaign, while Andrew Vallance 
has done some incredible work gathering together Interstellar War 
info.  (I also understand the Writer's List discusses that one 
frequently.)  Both have that new frontiers/Babylon 5 feel to them 
that can be used to pull new players in.

The Long Night has a lot of potential (ala the Foundation novels), 
and the Rule of Man/Ramshackle Empire shines with the spark that the 
Shattered Imperium and Steve Perry's Matador Trilogy (up to 7 books 
now, isn't it?) show quite well.

The Barracks Emperors don't really spark my interest, but the 
Psionics Suppressions tends toward the fall of the Jedi Knights kind 
of image.

The Far Far Future and the Grandfather's Children sourcebooks also 
show incredible potential for super high tech games and for the 
closing out of several milieu-spanning plotlines (the Alpha and Omega 
of the Traveller Universe.)  

I would also like to see each new sourcebook detail a new sector as 
well, possibly with a page or two of the sector's rise and fall in 
importance throughout the range of Traveller history.  There are 35 
sectors that have been generated, if I recall correctly, and many of 
them deserve development.

And then, of course, is the Referee's Guide to the Mysteries of the 
Traveller Universe, the pseudo-canonical bible to the major plotlines 
of the OTU that writers can use to keep their products within the 
realm of OTU canonicity.  (Disclaimer: This is not meant to spark the 
canon debate again.  My apologies to whomever might be 
unintentionally offended by this statement.  I'm just interested in 
seeing the overall picture of the OTU as those who built it intended 
it to go, and this sourcebook looks like one way to do so.  My 
thanks for your time.  End of disclaimer.)

My final question is very simple:  I'm sure there are people 
interested in submitting supplement ideas and/or working on these 
setting sourcebooks.  Many of these people do good work, and want 
to help Marc (and others) realize the great depth of the Traveller 
universe.  How does one go about getting permission to do so for an 
official product?  How can we help to contribute to the game?

Thank you for your time,
Jason

============================
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer I
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375

Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:47:42 EST
From: RSpake2064@aol.com
Subject: Re: T5 Possible settings...

In a message dated 98-11-12 15:44:25 EST, you write:

<< My final question is very simple:  I'm sure there are people 
 interested in submitting supplement ideas and/or working on these 
 setting sourcebooks.  Many of these people do good work, and want 
 to help Marc (and others) realize the great depth of the Traveller 
 universe.  How does one go about getting permission to do so for an 
 official product?  How can we help to contribute to the game?
 
 Thank you for your time,
 Jason >>

heck, i wouldnt mind working on the artwork for a Terran Confederation
sourcebook..

richard spake

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:47:57 EST
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: FF&S question

	
	Thanks to everyone who responded to my silly question...I haven't yet had the
opportunity to read all the responses, but a careful medication-free
reanalysis, I discovered that I had dropped a decimal point.  I have had no
luck trying to reconcile the cost of the scout, however...I rationalize it by
remembering that the Type S is not for sale on the open market. I assume that
Fusion+ was used for the Starships design...they would cut the cost
dramatically.

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:00:58 EST
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Spending the IISS' budget

In a message dated 11/11/98 21:56:47 PM Pacific Standard Time,
ianw@orac.net.au writes:

<< >From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
 >Subject: Re: Scout/Courier and FF&S2
 >
 >Obviously, I'm gold-plating my ships.  I came up with a 97.62 MCr ship
 >that met the basic requirements.  However, I added the following:
 > >>
Seriously, if you are going to spend MCr 230 on a ship, I would have more
crew on it so you can have multiple sensor operators.

	I have gotten mine to MCr 106.3...the second largest item-cost is the sensor
package...I am using the Book2 electronics packs, and I just believe that
realistically, a Scout/Survey vessel would have Exploratory/Survey sensors.
Cutting that back to just standard Civilian saves a good chunk of change, but
I consider it a bad compromise.

	DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:10:37 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us>
Subject: GT: Return of the Ancients?

********
This message contains information from the Ref's Only section of 
Behind The Claw.  If this, for whatever reason, may spoil some of 
the excitement of an ongoing Traveller campaign, please read no 
further.  Thank you.
********

Quick question:

Has anyone noticed the possibilities that have been planted regarding 
the Return of the Ancients to the Spinward Marches in GT:BTC?  I 
probably don't have the appropriate inside information (ie read all 
the adventures, digests, journals, etc), but there's some interested 
evidence that indicates that one of Grandfather's Children (or 
Grandchildren, or a clone, or a pseudobiological construct of some 
kind) has returned to the Marches:

1099:  Reports of an unidentified vessel sighted outside of major 
systems on the spinward edge of the Imperium.

1109:  The Imperial vessel Midu Kunivaak was saved by an unknown 
vessel from plunging into a Gas Giant, without using tow lines of any 
sort.  The vessel then fled under high acceleration before it could 
identify itself.

1110 to 1118:  Droyne begin to increase their appearance in Spinward 
Marches starports.  Also, the new large Oytrip on Candory and Andor 
is being brought together by a Droyne who resembles a sport caste, 
but is actually not of that caste (different markings), and is called 
Muodray (Little Father).

1115:  Aslan ihatei are repulsed from Talos/District 268 by a single 
powerful ship, identified as being of similar to Droyne construction. 
 (Easier to tell now that they've been travelling.  Not quite as 
widespread in 1109, see above.)

1117:  Droyne colonists settle Sansibar/Querion far from the human 
settlement (and their interference, one would assume.)

1118:  All Droyne leave Spinward Marches starports for a period of 
time and none are seen plowing the spacelanes for a short period.  
Then business returns to normal, without comment.

Something's cooking with the Droyne, but I am not yet certain what it 
is.  Is Grandfather preparing to return to normal space?  Has an 
Ancient pseudobiological robot been activated and, not finding it's 
master/father, now feels compelled to watch over and guide the Droyne 
under the its own version of Asimov's Laws of Robotics?  Or did one 
of the kids or grandkids slip one by Grandfather, and get a clone 
killed while he/she/it slept away in suspended animation, only to 
wake up now that Grandfather "has left the area"?

Any thoughts or opinions would be appreciated.

In Service,
Jason

PS  Did anyone notice the Sixth Frontier War coming up, with a 
possible Darrian/Zhodani alliance?  Maybe it's motivated by the 
coming Empress Wave, if that's still part of the overall plotline.  
(In 1120, the Wave would be ~87 ly away, if it's moving at the speed 
of light.  That's only 26.69 hexes away from the Imperial border.  
Hmmmm.)
============================
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer I
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375

Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:06:19 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: sexually flavored content

dberry@hooked.net wrote:

> >Might make the serious gearheads happier...
>
> I'm just picturing Andy's spreadsheet on the topic...

Sign ME up...

- --
Ave et vale.
Evyn,
Warleader of the Clan MacDude
Solus Stellamilitia Ludus, 1998 Œ

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:20:54 EST
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: T5 Discussion Draft

In a message dated 11/12/98 8:07:09 AM Pacific Standard Time,
Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us writes:

<< >Structure: The central rules structure of T5 consists of a core 
 >rules book (T5), a companion, a technical architecture book (perhaps 
 >itself divided into three volumesà ships, equipment/weapons, and 
 >vehicles), and an atlas. Only T5 will appear initially. Our 
 >intention is to develop the equivalent of FF&S intandem so that it 
 >expands T5 rather than supplants it. >>


	 I would like to vote for a Deluxe Starter Traveller/ Deluxe TNE
approach...the core rules, maybe the ship/vehicle design rules, and a starting
sector complete w/ map and UPP's in a boxed set.  I realize this would cost
more than just putting out the softcovers...but I think it would be well worth
it...I would gladly pay $40-$50  for the boxed set.

	As to setting, I am not necessarily sure I like the M0 idea...maybe a setting
on the Imperial/Aslan border area during the Aslan Border Wars?

	With regards to the starship design system...I am not in favor of having more
than one system...like QSDS/SSDS/FF&S.  One system, done with full detail,
THEN "dumbed down" to a simple system.  The more design systems, the greater
chance of incompatibility errors.

All IMHO, of course.

DustyLV769

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:30:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Camino <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Color Coding (was: Re: T5)

Doug Berry Wrote:

I'm really starting to warm to the idea of color-coding the T5 books for
different milleu.  Some suggestions.

Red: Core books.  The basic rules, FFS3, any generic, cross-milieu item

Orange: Milieu:0
Yellow: Civil War/Arbellatra Regency
Green: Interstellar Wars
Blue: Classic Era

This is actually the order I'd like to see the Milieu released.

=====================

I'll second all suggestions above.  Even though I'm a big CT fan, I'll
admit that we already have more supporting info for M:1105 than any
other.


==
- ------------------------><>------------------------
IMTU 0601 tc++ tm !tn t4+ ?tg ru++ 3i pi ta+ he+ 

=>UTUP 0309 0-400A04C-5-8-2<=

You might be a Traveller fanatic if...
your resume includes a UPP and skill listing!
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 14:39:20 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Spending the IISS' budget

DustyLV769@aol.com wrote:
> 
 
>         I have gotten mine to MCr 106.3...the second largest item-cost is the sensor
> package...I am using the Book2 electronics packs, and I just believe that
> realistically, a Scout/Survey vessel would have Exploratory/Survey sensors.
> Cutting that back to just standard Civilian saves a good chunk of change, but
> I consider it a bad compromise.

Something to remember...the Scout/Courier is _not_ necessarily a
standalone survey vessel. Book 6 talks about Survey Cruisers that carry
several Type S'es with them to conduct large scale survey ops.

The Type S, as I see it, has always been sort of the 'jeep' of
starships, a general purpose, small, jumpcapable ship to get someone or
something small out a couple of parsecs, without a huge ship signature.
It probably _can_ be used as a sensors platform, but only with
modifications and jury rigging. I'm sure there are 100mCr Type S'es out
there, but they'll be like _Seeker_ variants...with expensive
modifications in the sensors suite and so forth; the _Finder_ variant,
anyone? (comes with a big multicolored version of the Imperial Sunburst
;-)

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:44:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Camino <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Color Coding (was: Re: T5)

GLENN MYERS WROTE:
I want a post-virus 4th Imperium setting.
If nothing else, I want some closure on Lucan's 
Virus empire and the Black Curtain. 
[snip]
My point is that each of the incarnations of Traveller except M:0 has
had a shocking historical event which drove me to want to know more
about the new storyline. I think that may be  essential to the
successof T5.

Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong...
[snip off sig]
========

The 4th Imperium Working Group would like to have your input
http://www.egroups.com/list/4iwg

So far our discussions have been all over the place, but it looks as
though there will be two competing groups trying to grow into a 4th
Imperium.  One growing out of the Marches (H.Hale's work) and one from
the Solomani Rim.  PLEASE NOTE: The work of this group is not yet
blessed by MM.



==
- ------------------------><>------------------------
IMTU 0601 tc++ tm !tn t4+ ?tg ru++ 3i pi ta+ he+ 

=>UTUP 0309 0-400A04C-5-8-2<=

You might be a Traveller fanatic if...
your resume includes a UPP and skill listing!
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:46:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Camino <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Scout (T4 Stats)

LeoHale Wrote:
Still can't keep the cost down as low as the book.  I wounder where
they fudges the costto keep it so low?

===

Buying in bulk? ;->




==
- ------------------------><>------------------------
IMTU 0601 tc++ tm !tn t4+ ?tg ru++ 3i pi ta+ he+ 

=>UTUP 0309 0-400A04C-5-8-2<=

You might be a Traveller fanatic if...
your resume includes a UPP and skill listing!
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:56:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Camino <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: T5 Discussion Draft

MARC WROTE:
I had a continuing struggle with IG, insisting that the writers do their
charts first and then write text around them, and being ignored time and
again. Good role-playing writing has to concentrate on charts and
information, not on narrative.

==========
Well, there you have it, people.  If you want to put out a version of
Traveller (or any other game) that falls on it's face in no time flat,
just ignore the repeated urgings of it's creator.  



==
- ------------------------><>------------------------
IMTU 0601 tc++ tm !tn t4+ ?tg ru++ 3i pi ta+ he+ 

=>UTUP 0309 0-400A04C-5-8-2<=

You might be a Traveller fanatic if...
your resume includes a UPP and skill listing!
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:03:39 -0500
From: John Macek <macek@erols.com>
Subject: Re: LSP to produce?

Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:
> 
> > Greg Smith wrote:
> >
> > > Perhaps LSP could produce the next version.  I had to laugh when I went
> > > to their web page and it said "Make the Jump...."
> > >
> >
> > Actually, this would be far more up Makhidkaurn's alley...they deal more
> > in Entertainment than Ling Standard Products...;-)
> 
> Just as long as General Products doesn't put it out.  Their ships are *JUNK*.
> 
> Keven
> 

But Wait!!!!  I thought General Products' hulls were indestructable...
or so the Puppeteers told me.  Oh, wait.  Wrong universe.
:)

John

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:04:08 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Color Coding (was: Re: T5) 

> Doug Berry Wrote:
> 
> I'm really starting to warm to the idea of color-coding the T5 books for
> different milleu.  Some suggestions.
> 
> Red: Core books.  The basic rules, FFS3, any generic, cross-milieu item
> 
> Orange: Milieu:0
> Yellow: Civil War/Arbellatra Regency
> Green: Interstellar Wars
> Blue: Classic Era
> 
> This is actually the order I'd like to see the Milieu released.
> 
> =====================
> 
> I'll second all suggestions above.  Even though I'm a big CT fan, I'll
> admit that we already have more supporting info for M:1105 than any
> other.

Never hurts to have *MORE* M:110x material out there.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 18:16:26 +0000
From: Matt Clonfero <Matt-C@aetherem.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Low, fast and LOUD (off-topic)

SD Mooney wrote:
>"Peter L.S. Trevor" <ptrevor.trisen@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Moral: Never underestimate something just because  its  old,  and
>>remember your radio procedures.
>
>On the underestimating front, look at the raid the RAFs Vulcan bombers made
>on Port Stanley in the Falklands back in the early 80's. It may not have
>had a major (logistical impact) but staging a strike from the UK using
>tanker support! 

Wideawake field, Ascension Island, to be precise. That's a whole lot
closer to the Falklands than the UK is. The strikes also tied up the
whole capability of Wideawake.

ObTraveller: I'm a bit scare on Traveller history. Any instances of
`really deep' strikes being run with massive tanker support?

Aetherem Vincere
Matt
- -- 
Matt Clonfero: Matt-C@aetherem.demon.co.uk    | To err is human, To forgive
My employer and I have a deal - I don't speak | is not Air Force Policy.
for them, and they don't speak for me.        |   -- Anon, ETPS.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:12:17 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Color Coding (was: Re: T5) 

> Two others I would love to do are
> 
> The Far Far Future (circa 2000)

Would this be post-Rebellion & post-Virus, or is Virus officially being 
written out of history?  Is the Rebellion officially being written out of 
history?

> Grandfather's Children (including uplifted humans running around in automated
> ships doing Grandfather's bidding).

This could get real interesting real fast...

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1133
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, November 12 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1134



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Up Close and Personal - Shuchithra
EARNED Social Standing (was: Re: Up Close and Personal - Shuchithra
Beam Dancing post
Re: T5 Discussion Draft
Re: EARNED Social Standing (was: Re: Up Close and Personal - Shuchithra
Re: Color Coding (was: Re: T5) More
Re: sexually flavored content
Re: EARNED Social Standing (was: Re: Up Close and Personal - Shuchithra
T5
Re: T5
Re: EARNED Social Standing (was: Re: Up Close and Personal - Shuchithra
re:  sexually flavored content
Re: re:Ship Design question
Re: T5: Cards
Re: EARNED Social Standing (was: Re: Up Close and Personal - Shuchithra
Re: Ship's Laundry (was: What shall we have for dinner?)
re:  sexually flavored content
Re: Vilani Hypothesis: A Tale of Lost Treasure  (Was Re: The Lost Files)  (Long)
Re: What shall we have for dinner?
Re: Color Coding (was: Re: T5)
Re: T5
Re: T5
Re: Vilani Hypothesis: A Tale of Lost Treasure (Was Re: The Lost  Files) (Long)
Re: Color Coding (was: Re: T5) 
Re: greater range = greater chance of success?
Re: greater range = greater chance of success?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 22:32:31 GMT
From: jzeitlin@cyburban.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Up Close and Personal - Shuchithra

Shuchithra is a striking individual, in many ways.  Although she
is only 1.5m tall, and masses only 55kg, she nevertheless has
"presence", and stands out even in crowds.  Ten years of
professional beam dancing, along with almost daily practice in a
number of martial arts and some gymnastics experience as a child,
has given her a gracefulness rarely seen in someone as young as
she is.  Her alabaster skin is set off by jet-black hair, which
she keeps cut short (usually in a "page boy"), and deep violet
eyes.  When not actually performing, she wears loose-fitting (but
not baggy) clothes, primarily in medium-to-dark greens, often
with yellow, gold, or magenta accents.  Her soft voice has
frequently been described as "enchanting"; nevertheless, she has
no difficulty making herself heard when she needs to or wants to.
Unique among beam dancers, Shuchithra's performances include her
singing, rather than just the music or music and light of other
performers.

When she is performing, she invariably wears a black sequined
full-coverage body suit, leaving only her face visible to the
audience.  Her performance always starts in full darkness.  Her
first number is invariably to sing a ballad, begun \a capella\;
her dance begins about halfway through the number, and gradually
brings both light (both dance beams and house lights) and music
into her performance.  Audiences respond well to her
performances; she has been said to play the audience's emotions
with as much skill as she programs her console. In the last three
years, she has never failed to sell out a single performance
within one standard day of the tickets going on sale.

Strangely, in spite of her popularity and stardom, Shuchithra
does _not_ have a collection of "roadies" following her, and her
entourage consists of only her three bodyguards, her business
manager, her personal tailor, and her personal physician.
Additional staff is hired as needed, for the duration of her
visit to a particular world. On occasion, some of that staff will
be asked to stay on for a few additional worlds, but in general,
Shuchithra does not maintain a large staff for any great length
of time, and is reluctant to ask people to leave their
homeworlds.

Shuchithra _never_ speaks out on "advocacy" or political issues,
and, with one exception, keeps her views on such issues to
herself.  Even on the one issue that where her views are public,
they are known from her actions rather than outspokenness: she
cancels performances where the government attempts to control or
restrict the content.

Referee's Notes:  Shuchithra is psionic, although nobody knows
this (not even Shuchithra).  She is a full empath, unconsciously
projecting her emotions and reading and responding to those of
the people around her.  This ability subtly influences her
performances, and is a factor (although a minor factor - her beam
dancing talent is real) in her popularity.  Her talent for
programming her own beam dance stages is also a manifestation of
her psionic abilities, in the form of Machine Empathy.

Referees detailing a character profile or resume for Shuchithra
(her full name; she legally changed it early in her career)
should give her higher-than-normal dexterity, endurance,
intelligence, and education, and a social level appropriate for a
major famous performer. Skills should focus on things like
gymnastics, dancing, and martial arts, though she should also
have a good level of computer skill.

Shuchithra invariably stays at facilities operated by or funded
by the Travellers' Aid Society or equivalent organizations, as
these are not open to the general public.  While there, she is
not unapproachable by other guests for a few minutes of quiet
conversation.

Shuchithra will instantly cancel performances on worlds where the
government attempts to control or restrict the content of her
performance.

She will hire teams to act as cadre for on-planet security (and
will occasionally ask a particularly effective team to stay on
for a few planets), or ships and crews to carry relief supplies
to a disaster area on a nearby planet.  Teams/ships that have
acted on behalf of governments that practice censorship of art
will not be hired under any circumstances.  Teams/ships that have
acted for her before will be remembered, and hired again if need
and opportunity coincide.

As a patron, she is wealthy enough to buy and outfit a yacht or
courier ship without needing to take out a mortgage;
nevertheless, she does not spend money unnecessarily, and is a
very savvy investor - she will insist on strong justification for
any purchases she is asked to make in support of a team's effort.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 14:34:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
Subject: EARNED Social Standing (was: Re: Up Close and Personal - Shuchithra

On Thu, 12 Nov 1998, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:

> Referees detailing a character profile or resume for Shuchithra
> (her full name; she legally changed it early in her career)
> should give her higher-than-normal dexterity, endurance,
> intelligence, and education, and a social level appropriate for a
> major famous performer.

How do other refs handle Social Standing of this type (i.e. unrelated to
nobility in any way)? How do you represent a person who
was born to commoners and holds no noble title, yet exercises extreme
influence through fame or wealth?

Ben
- --
Brannon (Ben) Boren
brannonb@blarg.net
http://www.solaria.net/brannonb/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:45:36 EST
From: RSpake2064@aol.com
Subject: Beam Dancing post

could some one please send me off list the orginal posts detailing Beam
Dancing?  my emial box seems to have deleted it...

richard

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:46:07 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: T5 Discussion Draft

In a message dated 11/12/98 1:56:48 PM Central Standard Time,
jamstar@glasscity.net writes:

<< So a milieu writer could write the basic chrome and setting for use with
the 
 core rules?  And all they'd have to include in the new book is just the 
 'detailing rules' for their milieu?  This is a Good Thing... >>

More like, there would be a book called "The Interstellar Wars" with chargen
for Terran Confederation and Vilani people. ince it is set in a specific place
and time,t here wouldn't be world gen; instead we would have the world lists
for the Terran Vilani frontier. The ship chapter would chronicle the basic
ship types avaiable to both sides. Ship combat might be expanded to cover
fleet actions.

Now, you would get one book with everything needed to play during the IW
period. If you wanted to design ships, you could go back to the T5 core book,
but most people wouldn't design ships, they would use what was there. If you
wanted to (or were forced to) explore unexplored areas, you could go back to
the T5 core book, but most people woun't. they would stay within the ordinary
borders of the era.

The IW book would be a "stand alone" entry point. Buy this book and start
playing right away; you don't NEED anything else.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:50:29 -0500
From: John Macek <macek@erols.com>
Subject: Re: EARNED Social Standing (was: Re: Up Close and Personal - Shuchithra

Brannon Boren wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 12 Nov 1998, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
> 
> > Referees detailing a character profile or resume for Shuchithra
> > (her full name; she legally changed it early in her career)
> > should give her higher-than-normal dexterity, endurance,
> > intelligence, and education, and a social level appropriate for a
> > major famous performer.
> 
> How do other refs handle Social Standing of this type (i.e. unrelated to
> nobility in any way)? How do you represent a person who
> was born to commoners and holds no noble title, yet exercises extreme
> influence through fame or wealth?
> 
> Ben

In G:T it can be done by using the advantage called Reputation.  You
*could* do it with Soc in Trav, but with the caveat that the high Soc
was from a non-noble source.  Just give the character a B, C, or
whatever sans title.

John

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:52:32 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Color Coding (was: Re: T5) More

In a message dated 11/12/98 2:30:48 PM Central Standard Time,
glenn.myers@mailhub.ansys.com writes:

<< Just where is Faraway supposed to be
 astrographically?
 
 No canonical references to any events in any of the Milleu, right? ...
 What a playground!
  >>

The kit would include a star map showing possible places (and even a dice key
if you want to randomize it). Plus how to determine past history and how you
got to the place you're at.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 98 23:01:07 +0000
From: igor@truserve.com
Subject: Re: sexually flavored content

dberry@hooked.net wrote:

> >Might make the serious gearheads happier...
>
> I'm just picturing Andy's spreadsheet on the topic..

I've gotta finish the BL/BR additions and some bug fixes. Then we can get to work on this.

Anything to make you happy Doug :) Besides, Kenji should be pleased as well.
Pelvic-mounted plasma guns, chest-mounted sensor arrays, and backside-mounted sand
dispensers will be available.

And skin-tight see-through battle dress is _all_ the rage, right Ditzie?

And DON'T get me started on some of the robotic *cough* companions we can come up with...

Andy Akins
igor@truserve.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:58:45 EST
From: RSpake2064@aol.com
Subject: Re: EARNED Social Standing (was: Re: Up Close and Personal - Shuchithra

In a message dated 98-11-12 17:56:37 EST, you write:

<< 
 In G:T it can be done by using the advantage called Reputation.  You
 *could* do it with Soc in Trav, but with the caveat that the high Soc
 was from a non-noble source.  Just give the character a B, C, or
 whatever sans title.
 
 John >>

or you can do what your suppose to do with Vargr...  Soc is replaced with
Chrisma...  just mark the Soc as representing the characters standing in
culture/society instead of noblilty...

ricahrd

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 14:58:50 -0800
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: T5

     This post is directed towards Mark Miller;

     In the information you posted regarding the new T5, there was a list
of occupations.  The list did not include a Psion, was that an accident or
a purposeful omission?  In the list of proposed settings, you did not
provide one for the TNE setting, will there never be anything more do for
that setting?

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 23:12:59 GMT
From: jzeitlin@cyburban.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Re: T5

On Wed, 11 Nov 1998 18:55:04 -0500, "Eris Reddoch"
<eris@gulf.net> wrote:

>On 11/11/98 at 09:14 PM,  jzeitlin@cyburban.com (Jeff Zeitlin) said:

>>I would recommend that T5 maps include names, physical stats, and
>>presence/absence of gas giants and belts.  Data listings should
>>include all of the other information, which is potentially quite
>>mutable from era to era, or even within an era if the area/planet is
>>politically unstable.

>>A sample hex might look like this (magnified):

>How about a variation showing how *many* GG's and PB's are in a
>system? That shouldn't change much from m to m. ;->
>   _____
>  / 867 \
> /   O  3\
> \      2/
>  \Terra/
>   ~~~~~

This is a good idea, and one that had crossed my mind - because
it _is_ bloody unlikely for these numbers to change.  I'm not
sure why it didn't make it into the post.

>Or maybe...
>       _____  
>      / 867 \ 
>     /3  O  2\
>     \nsdwxnf/
>      \TERRA/ 
>       ~~~~~  
>...of course no system would have *all* those codes.  ;-> And for a
>milleu non-specific map that line should be empty.

Bear in mind that for a milieu-specific map, you also need to
leave space for the starport type.  I'm also far from convinced
that base presence needs to be shown on the map at all, with the
possible exception of parties using Scout ships (which could
reasonably want to know where the scout bases are, since fuel
there is free).
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 18:04:46 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: EARNED Social Standing (was: Re: Up Close and Personal - Shuchithra

In a message dated 11/12/98 4:35:16 PM Central Standard Time,
brannonb@animal.blarg.net writes:

<< 
 How do other refs handle Social Standing of this type (i.e. unrelated to
 nobility in any way)? How do you represent a person who
 was born to commoners and holds no noble title, yet exercises extreme
 influence through fame or wealth?
 
  >>

Is Lech Walensa Soc 6 (shipyard worker) or Soc 11 (President of Poland)?
Is Nelson Mandela Soc 4 (ex-con) or Soc 11 (President of South Africa)?
Is Monica Lewinski Soc 5 (immature tart) or Soc 11 (recently rated by some
stupid magazine one of the ten most influential people under 30)?

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:06:23 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re:  sexually flavored content

> >We don't need a chapter on "The Joy of Hiver Sex",
> >nor do we need diagrams in FF&S3 on the subject. 

>But we _do_ need diagrams & design systems for half a dozen types of
>laser, plasma, fusion, PAW, "meson", gauss, etc. weapons?  And a combat
>system that accurately models tumbling vs. non-tumbling bullet wounds?  

Speaking only for myself, while I know little about tumbling bullet wounds
or particle accelerator weapons and hence need a rulebook to explain them to
me, my knowledge of the . . . squishier subject is at least sufficient that
I don't need diagrams.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:55:37 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: re:Ship Design question

SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> writes:
>Using QSDS I can't get the cost down enough - I'm not sure if the QSDS
>discount of 25% is included in the final figure, nor the old style mass
>production discounts...

If you are using QSDS: The Software (TM) then the final price does include
the discount. The spreadsheet total shows the price before the discount.
(Guess I'll have to add some more explanatory labels.)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:50:20 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: T5: Cards

>These cards will be consumables, so replaceing them should be
>easy and inexpensive.

Yup. 

I'd suggest making them the same size as CCG cards, so that organized
types can get those plastic cardholder sheets and just load up their
characters that way.

(Mind you, I'm NOT suggesting making a CCG Traveller game. Whille I'd love
a Traveller card game, I hate the "collectable" part of CCGs, which makes
them a huge money drain.)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 18:17:18 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: EARNED Social Standing (was: Re: Up Close and Personal - Shuchithra

At 02:34 PM 11/12/98 -0800, you wrote:
>On Thu, 12 Nov 1998, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
>
>> Referees detailing a character profile or resume for Shuchithra
>> (her full name; she legally changed it early in her career)
>> should give her higher-than-normal dexterity, endurance,
>> intelligence, and education, and a social level appropriate for a
>> major famous performer.
>
>How do other refs handle Social Standing of this type (i.e. unrelated to
>nobility in any way)? How do you represent a person who
>was born to commoners and holds no noble title, yet exercises extreme
>influence through fame or wealth?
>
Someone who earns a social standing would have a social standing based on
the power he/she can wield. If a certain rich merchant can order people
around like a similar baron, this individual would have the social standing
of a baron, regardless if he/she were knighted.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:55:03 -0600
From: "Christopher B. Thrash" <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: Ship's Laundry (was: What shall we have for dinner?)

> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 23:13:05 -0700
> From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
> Subject: Re: What shall we have for dinner?
> > For that matter, what do we wear?  I also can't find a washing-machine.
> > Disposable clothing, perhaps?
> 
> Maybe...  Although, I can see you washing your clothes in the fresher
when
> you take a bath...
> 

In the real world, one of the first things you do on making portcall is
send your laundry out to be washed; the stewards are responsible for it.

Adventure Seed:  that vital datacard is in the pocket of your best jacket,
on the way to some nameless dry cleaners in the Imperial equivalent of Hong
Kong...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:25:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Camino <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: re:  sexually flavored content

Bruce Wrote:
Speaking only for myself, while I know little about tumbling
bulletwounds or particle accelerator weapons and hence need a rulebook
to explainthem to me, my knowledge of the . . . squishier subject is
at least sufficient that I don't need diagrams.
======

I used to think the same way about pulling a trigger and rolling dice,
but that has gotten more complicated, too. =:-o






==
- ------------------------><>------------------------
IMTU 0601 tc++ tm !tn t4+ ?tg ru++ 3i pi ta+ he+ 
=>UTUP 0309 0-400A04C-5-8-2<=

You might be a Traveller fanatic if... your resume includes a UPP and skill listing!
http://come.to/traveller

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:39:56 -7
From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Vilani Hypothesis: A Tale of Lost Treasure  (Was Re: The Lost Files)  (Long)

On 11 Nov 98, at 18:47, steve daniels wrote:

> You want to run the Vilani Hypothesis as a PBEM!
> Thats it!

Actually, I'm not crazy about PBEM as a format.  I tried one PBEM 
game for a few months and it's just not my bag.  I like a little faster 
pace than the snail's crawl that PBEM seems to inevitably become.

I do currently run an IRC campaign on Monday nights, but it is a 
very different setting...pre-first contact Solar system (early 21st 
century) in what is non-canonical enough of a setting to really 
mess with players' sense of reality...

FWIW, I researched a lot for the book before I wrote word one (6 
months or so between various projects I was working on for IG).  
Some of the research and thinking that went into VH is being used 
to torture players in the IRC campaign...although they don't know 
that yet...

No comments from the inevitable peanut gallery. <G>

Stu
Stuart L. Dollar               sdollar@goodnet.com
Frustrated Novelist, Published Game Designer
- --------------------------------------------------
"I really haven't said half the things I've said."
- -Yogi Berra

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:39:55 -7
From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: What shall we have for dinner?

On 11 Nov 98, at 18:37, steve daniels wrote:

> Black ICE wrote:
> 
> > StevenA201@aol.com wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm getting ready to start up a campaign, and I've run into a little snag.
> > > What do people eat while in jump?  How is it prepared?  I don't see a kitchen
> > > on any of my deckplans!
> 
> You've heard of the Donner Party?  What do you think Low Passage is for, anyway?

Long pig for dinner.  Yum, my favorite.   <G>

Stu
Stuart L. Dollar               sdollar@goodnet.com
Frustrated Novelist, Published Game Designer
- --------------------------------------------------
"I really haven't said half the things I've said."
- -Yogi Berra

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:52:47 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Color Coding (was: Re: T5)

From:           	CardSharks@aol.com
Date sent:      	Thu, 12 Nov 1998 14:40:58 EST

>Two others I would love to do are

>The Far Far Future (circa 2000)

That would be Traveller Y2K, would it not :*>

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 23:53:32 +0000
From: Andy Gibson <Andy@yarm.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: T5

CardSharks@aol.com writes:
<snip resume of T5 - sounds great!>
>Expanded system for wounds and fighting. Which allows for non-combat injury
>(accidents, cold, heat, vacuum, and such. This in turn opens the opportunity
>for weapons and devices which can impose damage other than just hits (so nukes
>can impose burns and radiation as well as blast). High tech weapons can do the
>same.
>
On the subject of combat/damage systems for characters can I enter a
plea?  Take a look (at least briefly) at the N.Robin Crossby/Columbia
Games "HarnMaster" system for medieval fantasy.  The point here is that
they use a radically different way of looking at injury/damage that
really has an effect on the way players view and play their characters.
In short injuries are attributes which are gained rather than being
reflected by a pool of "life" which is lost.  Instead of having hit
points/life levels/characteristics points/whatever which are whittled
away until the final vicious slash to the big toe with a fruit knife
takes away the last one (resulting in death) in HM you just keep gaining
injury points.  Of course, they have several effects on how you perform
- - penalties on task attempts and saving throws to see if the sheer
"weight" of damage overwhelms your bodies ability to cope in any number
of ways.  In HM you can die of bloodloss, shock, trauma, suffocation,
infection or heart failure but not "running out of hit points" and yet
the system is almost as simple as the standard Traveller stat. reduction
to use.  Please, at least check it out.

Cheers,

Andy

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:29:18 +0100
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <greimann@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: T5

>I've made similar suggestions here on TML.
>A Bible of Canon, a Universe Builder's Handbook, etc.
>Not just a compilation of secrets (and many milieus will have secrets
>separate to themselves), but information resources to deal with large
>scale issues.  From linguistic drift over time for isolated systems, how
>TL increases and decreases (with system specific modifiers).
...how piracy is possible, effect of rock bombardment, katana ..... (ducking)

Volker
- ---
Volker A. Greimann, greimann@geocities.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 19:02:17 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Vilani Hypothesis: A Tale of Lost Treasure (Was Re: The Lost  Files) (Long)

> On 11 Nov 98, at 18:47, steve daniels wrote:
> 
> > You want to run the Vilani Hypothesis as a PBEM!
> > Thats it!
> 
> Actually, I'm not crazy about PBEM as a format.  I tried one PBEM 
> game for a few months and it's just not my bag.  I like a little faster 
> pace than the snail's crawl that PBEM seems to inevitably become.

When the choice is between PBEM & not playing, I'll take PBEM.  <shrug>  YMMV.
 
> FWIW, I researched a lot for the book before I wrote word one (6 
> months or so between various projects I was working on for IG).  
> Some of the research and thinking that went into VH is being used 
> to torture players in the IRC campaign...although they don't know 
> that yet...
> 
> No comments from the inevitable peanut gallery. <G>

<snicker>

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 19:07:28 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Color Coding (was: Re: T5) 

> From:           	CardSharks@aol.com
> Date sent:      	Thu, 12 Nov 1998 14:40:58 EST
> 
> >Two others I would love to do are
> 
> >The Far Far Future (circa 2000)
> 
> That would be Traveller Y2K, would it not :*>

Howcome there's never a comfy chair around when you *NEED* one???????

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:57:14 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: greater range = greater chance of success?

 Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com> wrote:

>Has this not been changed for T5? I thought that, in the drafts Marc's been
>sending, you couldn't get spectacular success or failure less than a 3D task.

But the original question asked about T4 not T4.1/T5.....

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 18:14:03 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: greater range = greater chance of success?

Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com> wrote:

>> Skim reading T4's combat section I can't see anything on the spectacular
>> success affecting combat. However, a TL 10 BD has an armour value of 7R
>> (Rigid) which means you throw away 7D of damage, and then apply a maximum
>> of 3 remaining D against the victim. So a pistol, even with a double value
>> hit (assuming that's what a spectacular success does) would not penetrate.
>> A snub pistol might get a little through with the HEAP rounds (like the
>> cP003 with 5D).
>>
>
>True. So let's say that the person isn't wearing battle dress, he's wearing
>something that as a rating of 4R. So my Average task can't hit him, but by
>stepping away to 46 meters I can, if I get spectacular success. This situation
>strikes me as odd.

I see what you mean. However, I think it is heading towards the
hypothetical because a double 1 roll on an average task will hit with a
skill of 1 and characteristic of 1 (total asset = 2).

>> Personally, I treat 3 ones whether on 2D and a 1/2 dice or 3D as
>>spectacular..
>
>Your homegrown rule solves the problem for Difficult tasks. However, the
>problem
>is still there for Easy tasks.

Easy is 1.5D, and I would argue that a double 1 would hit anyway because of
the asset (Skill+characteristic) level.

>> You seem to be confusing to hit and penetration.
>
>Possibly. Perhaps my error lies in assuming that, if you roll spectacular
>success, you automatically hit and do damage.

T4 doesn't say that. i would hope that it isn't the case...

>So, this gives rise to another question. How do you handle spectacular success
>in this kind of situation? I shoot a target at medium range, even though
>my gun
>can't penetrate the armor. I roll spectacular success. So what?

The way I play Traveller, my response would be 'tough' to the player. You
hit. It doesn't mean your 9mm can penetrate ABD. Laws of physics etc. If
you go into house rules mode I would say double the dice rolled for damage
or handwave an interesting effect (eg the round doesn't penetrate but
damages an important valve/faceplate).

I tend to avoid a hero style of play for Traveller, and will accept to a
point that players can't do certain thing. I think someone taking on ABD or
other armour (for example the 4R cited) is risking a lot, and the rules are
fair. Alternatively, the players' could go for a pinpoint shot or extra
damage shot by raising the task a level, or help by aiming or use auto or
burst fire.

T4's system is fast and bloody. Snub pistols are killers. Most average hits
on unarmoured characters will drop them on the first shot (avg 10.5 dmg vs
avg 7 hits on a stat). It's one of the things I like about the game. I hope
that Marc is using it as a basis for the exapnded rules he's mentioned,
because it is one of the first versions of Traveller where I've liked the
combat system. CT was okay, MT was confusing until I got the MT refs
shield, TNE involved to much mechanics and dice rolling. IMo of course.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1134
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Friday, November 13 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1135



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

re:T5
Re: Remembering the reason behind the holiday 
re: sexually flavored content
Re: T5
Low, fast and LOUD
psion occupation
System Defense of Nalkanized Worlds
Re: Ship Design question
Re: Vilani Hypothesis: A Tale of Lost Treasure (Was Re: The Lost  Files) (Long)
Re: Re : Riot Control Systems
re:  sexually flavored content
Re: CANON PROBLEM 3: The Kinunir Question
Re: T5 Discussion Draft
Re: Scout/Courier and FF&S2
OPINIONS OF T4?
Re: FF&S errata (RE: Scout (T4 Stats))
Re: sexually flavored content
Re: Spending the IISS' budget
Re: T5
Life Pursuits

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 00:10:27 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re:T5

Thoughts -
Hardback Core rules are a necessity
Main Character Sheet around A5 or A4 (US Letter) as players can use the space.
Space on equipment and spacecraft cards for picture

Like to see -
The extended combat system hung around T4's system
The T4.1 task system
Background in sidebars (like GT)
The Concise History of The Imperium article that was published in a Trav
Disgest Paraphrased and included.
Examples of real world task difficulties as a reference.
TL through to 21 (at least TL17 to cover up to TNE/late MT)
Sidebars describing which Milieus is strong for which type of adventure.
A single subsector (say Core in M0 and M1100) detailed in the book with
library data and timeline like M0.
Tables in line with relevant text sections but with summary sections (like
MT not separated like CT starter ed).

Dom

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 00:04:20 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Remembering the reason behind the holiday 

Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior) wrote:

>I took the day off work to go downtown to the service at the cenotaph. A
>repectable turnout, although there was a constant hum of traffic and
>occasional outbursts of carhorns. When I was a kid I remember shops
>closing down for the service(1), and people parking their cars during the
>minute of silence. Times change...

3 years ago (if I remember correctly) the UK government of the time (John
Major's) re-introduced the 2 minute silence at 11.00am on 11/11 each year.
I was pleasantly surprised when most companies, schools etc happily took to
observing it. Until then, Armistice day was only remembered on the nearest
Sunday for a long while.

At work, the site was tannoyed, and a cannon set off (either in Liverpool
or somewhere on the Wirral) marking the start and finish of the service.

>ObTrav: The Imperium has fought a lot of fairly big wars. Would any of
>them (ofther than the "Virus War" that killed the Imperium) have made
>enough of an impression to result in a Rememberance Day-style holiday?

Perhaps the end of the Frontier wars in the Marches?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 00:03:41 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: sexually flavored content

On the tpoic of Edict no 5....

I read this as saying adventures like _Murder on Arturus Station_ where one
of the suspects is a mistress of a victim would be forbidden. Is this the
case? As I rate this as one of the best Traveller scenarios ever I would
like to know! Marc?

I ask as someone who writes scenarios for BITS and hopefully for T5....

I don't mind not having gratuitous sex in the work, but I do find banning
the whole issue of relationships a problem. It removes a lot of potential
plotlines.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 18:18:32 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: T5

Roberto Camino <swordworlder@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Best idea yet.  Licensees could follow the color code conventions,
>too, making it easier to determine what goes with what.  I'd suggest
>lining up T5 licensees now to debut adventures at T5's launch.  The
>republishing of CT product, too.  Would spread the marketing across
>several companies, rather like software companies launching new
>versions at the same time a new operating system comes out.  I'm not
>suggesting that we change the name to "Microsoft Miller's Traveller",
>but successful marketing is as successful marketing does.

Hmm, personally I'd prefer Apple to MS but then there might be a risk that
the clone, sorry licensees, get dropped when profits are threatened ;-)

<BAD JOKE>
You could call a pdf version that's freeware and available from the website
Miller Lite after Gurps Lite.
</BAD JOKE>

Apologies. Couldn't resist.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:24:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com>
Subject: Low, fast and LOUD

From: Matt Clonfero <Matt-C@aetherem.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Low, fast and LOUD (off-topic)

[interesting discussion of Falklands War deleted]

ObTraveller: I'm a bit scare on Traveller history. Any instances of
`really deep' strikes being run with massive tanker support?

************************

I don't know of any.  

The game Fifth Frontier War does come with two tanker squadron
counters for the Zhodani, and the Imperium gets a few in
reinforcements, I think, but I've never seen them used for deep
strikes.  The rules have the effect of limiting tankers to allowing a
fleet to refuel at a hostile-controlled system that lacks a gas giant
- -- unless you're willing to abandon the tankers in deep space between
systems.  

- --Glenn
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:29:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com>
Subject: psion occupation

From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>

     This post is directed towards Mark Miller;

     In the information you posted regarding the new T5, there was a
list of occupations.  The list did not include a Psion, was that an
accident or a purposeful omission?  

********

"Psion" isn't an occupation, it's a disease!  and it needs to be
sterilized .....

Oh, excuse me, wrong milieu.  Yes, nurse, thank you, I'll be happy to
take that now.

- --Glenn
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:26:20 PST
From: "Colin Paddock" <su_liam@hotmail.com>
Subject: System Defense of Nalkanized Worlds

	On the subject of who runs the defense of Gov7 systems, I was under the 
impression this was an IN responsibility. The Imperium supposedly 
controls SPACE. There is little point defending the empty parsecs 
between stars, only STL ships go there. OTOH planets probably have to 
enforce their own tarriffs et al. The Imperium doesn't concern itself 
with LOCAL tax enforcement.

	If I'm wrong, then what  does  the IN DO? And what are all those 
interior sector fleets doing?

	My CR .02

			Colin

_____________________________________<<

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 01:07:41 +0000 (GMT)
From: Traveller <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Ship Design question

On 11 Nov, <DustyLV769@aol.com> wrote:
> 	Greetings, 

> 	 Can anyone out there design a canonical, everyday Type S scout courier,
> with
> the canonical performance specs (i.e. 100dt, Jump-2, 2-G Thrusters, etc..)
> with FF&S2?  This may seem a silly question, but it meant in all seriousness.

> 	DustyLV769@aol.com

This is going to be tricky, but let's see the spec and budget.

The Scout was originally LBB2, so

100dton, J-2, 2G, 4 staterooms, one double turret (no guns)
Model 1/bis computer, air/raft (4ton) Cargo 3 tons, Bridge,
40dtons of fuel (20 jump and 20 manoeuvre), MCr 29.43.

The LBB2 cost of the components is:
Jump      10MCr
Manoeuvre  4MCr
Power      8MCr
Hull       2MCr
Computers  4MCr

Oh and its TL9.

The design presented below comes close.

With all that manoeuvre fuel, I can use HEPlaR, but in order to let it fly
around planets there is 1G of Contra Grav.

The TL 9 had to be bent a bit-
          the fusion plant will need to be TL 12 to be small enough,
          the G-Compensation is also TL-12,
          the Jump Drive and the lasers are TL 11,
          TL10 is needed for the HEPlaR.

The ship cannot manoeuvre and shoot at the same time.
The G-Comp could be 1-G and TL10 and save 10MW.

The ship is too cheap! at 30MCr without discount and many discounted lower
tech parts, the sticker cost is probably 20-23MCr to a group. The 3I
probably pays about 16MCr and spend the rest on an improved sensor suite.


Scout/Courier (FF&S v2)
Designed by Postmark Design Bureau

Statistics
	Tons:               100std ( SL Med Cone Hypersonic )
	Volume:            1400m3
	Mass (L/C):         972t/896t
	Dimensions:          27.8m x 13.9m x 13.9m
	Size:                 8
 Crew:                 1/2
 Cargo:                3std (0/00)
 Passengers High/Med:  2/0
 Maintenance Points:  38
 Cost:                30.01 MCr
 Tech Level:           9 (9/12)

Electronics
 Controls:       Computer, High automation. 3xComp (CM:0.5 CP:2.0).
                 Terrain following sensors (TF:390, NOE:130). Bridge.
	Communications: 1xRadio (500,000km, 0.17MW). 1xLaser (1,000AU, 0MW).
	Sensors:        1xPEMS (12.5 [1.6mkm], 0MW). 1xLIDAR (14 [200kkm], 0.3MW).
	Signatures:     Vis:0, IR: -0.5 (-0.5 at 34MW, -0.5 at 20MW),
                 Act:0, Neu:-1, Grav:-2

Performance
 			2	    Jump (10std/pc fuel)
	 0.9/0.9	Maneuver (/HEPlaR:42MW,16.1 G-hours)
	 0.9/1  	Contra-grav (16MW)
	1653kph/1779kph	Atmosphere (/Crus:1240kph/1334kph)
 			2	    Power (/Fus:78.5MW,1yr )
			34.7	  Fuel (/Scoop:9 /Purif:24,2MW)
	 		0/0/4/0/0	Accomodations
			32	Life Sup. (/Ty:St,Nm /'St)
  		2	G-Comp
				0 [20]	Armor, 6 Structure

Weaponry
	1xTurret (+0) 1/2-2-2-0 [2,200/16-16-13-7] (SR)

Features
	1xAirlock
	1xOrdinary Galley (Cap:4)

Small Craft
	1xMinHgr (4std, 1 hatches)

Backups
	Communications: 1xRadio (50,000km). 1xLaser (1,000AU).

Crew Details
	1xMnvr. 1xGunn.

Phil Kitching

- -- 
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technology Division
"Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the galaxy."
Phil Kitching on postmark.design@btinternet.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 20:13:30 -0500
From: Brandon Quina <lore@tmgbbs.com>
Subject: Re: Vilani Hypothesis: A Tale of Lost Treasure (Was Re: The Lost  Files) (Long)

> When the choice is between PBEM & not playing, I'll take PBEM.  


Personally, I enjoy play by emails.  I've got one running right now,
infact.  A Vampire: the Masquerade game.  I definatly perfer a face
to face game, but a PBEM is better than not playing.  Best of all,
atleast as far as the players are concerned, it dosn't take much
effort to play in a PBEM.  You can be involved in a PBEM and play in
a real game (or one on IRC;  which is diffrent enough from a real-game
as to be a third catagory) at the same time.  That's definatly a plus.


- -- 
Brandon,

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 18:59:15 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Re : Riot Control Systems

At 01:39 am 11/12/98 PST, you wrote:
>> N-heptane also has this advantage : you can always light it.
>
>And if you are dispersing it in the air, the *rioters* can light it.
>Fuel air explosions air not nice things to be caught in.

	But it's the rioters caught in it ... "Think of it as evolution in
action." (Niven/Pournelle, "Oath of Fealty").
- -- Dave Golden
- -- House in Colorado Springs for sale! 
- -- http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/House

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 19:00:09 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: re:  sexually flavored content

At 06:17 am 11/12/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>>We don't need a chapter on "The Joy of Hiver Sex",
>>nor do we need diagrams in FF&S3 on the subject. 
>
>Might make the serious gearheads happier...

	Are you implying serious gearheads need vicarious, alien, sex to
fill a void in their lives ...?
- -- Dave Golden
- -- House in Colorado Springs for sale! 
- -- http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/House

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 19:02:13 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: CANON PROBLEM 3: The Kinunir Question

At 09:33 am 11/12/98 -0700, you wrote:
>If Strephon hasn't read his classics, the Warrant read something
like
>"The bearer has done what he has done with the permission of the
>Emperor---<signed> Richelieu ^h^h^h^h Strephon" ;-) Blank checks
like

	"What the bearer does, is done with my hand and for the good of the
Imperium."
- -- Dave Golden
- -- House in Colorado Springs for sale! 
- -- http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/House

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 18:09:55 -0800
From: "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@home.com>
Subject: Re: T5 Discussion Draft

>> I envision (for example) a later product called The Interstellar Wars. It
>> would be, like the basic rules book above, a stand-alone book, but it
would
>> have the world generation material altered to reflect Terran and Vilani
worlds
>> circa 2300 AD. It would deal in more detail with space combat, and talk
about
>> Terran and Vilani ships. And it would be all in one volume so the player
isn't
>> casting about for this book or that one.
>
>Woo-hoo! My dream come true! Please just keep in mind that the
>Interstellar Wars period will not resemble anything Traveller, except
>for the Vilani and Jump drives. No air/rafts, very little inertial
>compensation in ships and lot and lots of space battles. (Maybe even
>an excuse for piracy finally!). Very cool.


This sounds fantastic, but I'll wait to see the end product

Wayne Ewart

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 21:22:07 -0600
From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Scout/Courier and FF&S2

Black ICE wrote:

>Obviously, I'm gold-plating my ships.  I came up with a 97.62 MCr ship
>that met the basic requirements.  However, I added the following:
>
>        Stealth (1 level)
>        1 light laser mount
>        1 sandcaster (the Akins FF&S spreadsheet ver 3.2 doesn't allow,
AFAIK,
>for multiple batteries in the same turret)

the basic scout comes without weapons, but does have a hard point

>        1 Radio Jammer (1000 AU)
>        1 Deception Jammer (rating 11)
>        1 Passive Jammer (rating 13)
>        Neutrino and Basic IR Masking
>        11.5 AEMS (IAW the DSR) vice 8 AEMS

these items are what are to be in the space #13 (supp 7) and are removed
for detached duty

>        3 x Fiber-optic computers

model 1Bis

>        1 112 MW power plant vice 90 MW (to power the laser mount)
>        No batteries
>        6 Td cargo hold vice 4 Td cargo hold
>        Armor USP rating 10

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 23:38:16 -0500
From: sgkramer@juno.com (Samuel G. Kramer)
Subject: OPINIONS OF T4?

Hello,

I am considering purchasing T4, mostly based on the positive
experience I had with Classic Traveller quite a few years ago in
college.  If I am to dive into Traveller again, I would like to
go with the current version (besides, I have no idea where my old
traveller stuff is).

I have been surfing the internet looking for Traveller info
(there is plenty) and came across a scathing review of T4, a.k.a.
"Marc Miller's Traveller".  I have listed the review below.

Is the game really as bad as this guy says it is?  If so, maybe I
should give up my plans on picking up the game again.  What do
you think?


Regards,
Sam Kramer

The review is below:

Marc Miller's Traveller

Author: Marc Miller
Category: game
Company/Publisher: Imperium Games
Cost: 25
Page count: 192
ISBN: 1-57828-000-1
Capsule Review by Scott Shafer on 03/29/98. 

Every now and then a product comes along which is so bad, that
you wonder why in God's name you ever picked it up in the
first place. This is one of them. The latest version of the
Traveller rules is a Travesty. It is poorly laid out, poorly
thought
out, and a general mess. Traveller is one of the classic games of
the science fiction role-playing genre. Throughout the years
it has been redone time and again-- Traveller begat MegaTraveller
which begat Traveller the New Era which begat diddly
squat-- each new edition becomes just a little bit weaker and
weaker. 

Kind of like hillbilly incest or cloning-- sooner or later all of
those genetic imperfections will come to rest in some idiot
bastard child-- this is that idiot bastard child. The book starts
off well enough, with a commendable set of goals for T4,
which included, returning to the simpler mechanics of Classic
Traveller, and returning to standards that reject gratuitous sex
and violence. It goes downhill from there. 

All of the rules which you will need for play are included, but
the various charts are scattered willy-nilly within the chapters
and are ranged in no discernable order. There is a chapter on
character generation, but unlike in previous versions of
Traveller where you could end up with useless characters after a
bout of creation frenzy-- these guys are skilled to the teeth!
The game system appears to be unbalanced, with one problem being
it is all to easy to succeed at "impossible" tasks. 

Combat rules, world creation rules, starship creation rules are
included, which is commendable considering so many games
will try to swamp you with 10 million supplements-- but these
rules are also unorganized messes. The starship creation rules
even lack an essential table for the creation of starships.
Errata can be found on the Imperium Games site, but its a doozy!
You get a few corrections, and a back breaking load of
"suggested" changes. This game gets a solid "F." 

My advice is don't waste your money. Pick! up a copy of the
Classic Traveller rules, and you won't be disappointed-- pick
this up, and if you remember the past, you will be disappointed
by what you read in the present. 

Style: 1 (Unintelligible)
Substance: 1 (I Wasted My Money) 


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Specialty Forums | Search! 

Last Updated: Tuesday, 31-Mar-98 19:49:43 CST
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 22:59:00 -0600
From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
Subject: Re: FF&S errata (RE: Scout (T4 Stats))

Benada, Rob wrote:

>>   Still can't keep the cost down as low as the book.  I wounder where

>> they fudges the cost to keep it so low?
>> Leo
>
>In MT, FFS1 and  FFS2 jump drives are way over priced for the volume:
>0.3 Mcr per m^3 when it should be 0.3 Mcr per Displacement Ton. As a
>result the J-Drives are 14 times too expensive when compared to CT,
High
>Guard and T4 basic design.
>
>The error was introduced in MT when they went to m^3 and has been
>propagated ever sense.
>
>I have not noted this in any of the errata for any of these
>publications.

Actually I just did a check on this and the price change was in High
Gaurd and it is only 2 - 4 times CT prices


                        MCr/m^3              MCr/dT
Book 2              (.074 - .142)         varies 1 - 1.92
High Gaurd       (.296)                   4.0
MegaTraveller   (.222)                  3.0
FF&S                .3                        (4.2)
QSDS                (.021)                  .3
SSDS                 .3                        4.2
FF&S2              .3                        4.2

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 23:31:41 -0500
From: "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com>
Subject: Re: sexually flavored content

ok this is my two cents on the subject... and it's not the usual sigh marc
is once agien out of touch. This adventure is legal acording to the guide
lines even if we find out that empirour xyz had concubines is legal. It's
just not going to be the topic of a supplement or the supplement won't have
many scantally clad females to look at or pics that maybe over the edge.
I've bought some of WW's mature audience books and there is like one
picture that does it. and it's on the back cover. It's was mostlikely just
done to bust the sales. So the idea of a mistress is ok as a charater just
not the idea of what they do together. Jessica rabbit even played patty
cake with another man..
lol


- ----------
> From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: re: sexually flavored content
> Date: Thursday, November 12, 1998 7:03 PM
> 
> 
> On the tpoic of Edict no 5....
> 
> I read this as saying adventures like _Murder on Arturus Station_ where
one
> of the suspects is a mistress of a victim would be forbidden. Is this the
> case? As I rate this as one of the best Traveller scenarios ever I would
> like to know! Marc?
> 
> I ask as someone who writes scenarios for BITS and hopefully for T5....
> 
> I don't mind not having gratuitous sex in the work, but I do find banning
> the whole issue of relationships a problem. It removes a lot of potential
> plotlines.
> 
> Dom
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 23:06:58 -0600
From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spending the IISS' budget

DustyLV769@aol.com wrote:

>        I have gotten mine to MCr 106.3...the second largest item-cost is the
>sensor
>package...I am using the Book2 electronics packs, and I just believe that
>realistically, a Scout/Survey vessel would have Exploratory/Survey sensors.
>Cutting that back to just standard Civilian saves a good chunk of change, but
>I consider it a bad compromise.

the scout in Supp 7 had a bay which was to hold seensor equipment, I
take this to mean that the Exploratory/Survey sensors are removed before
the ship is let out on detached duty leaving it with a standard Civilian
suite.

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 00:00:11 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: T5

In a message dated 11/12/98 5:01:07 PM Central Standard Time,
lhale@panlabs.com writes:

<< In the list of proposed settings, you did not
 provide one for the TNE setting, will there never be anything more do for
 that setting?
  >>

I didn't forget, I just didn't post a complete list. I would love to do a TNE
Stand Alone Entry Point with a complete epic adventure running through it
about the New Era.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 23:52:04 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Life Pursuits

LIFE PURSUITS
	Just as careers are formal ways in which a player character can acquire
skills and experience, life pursuits represent specific areas of interest in
which player characters choose to express themselves. Life Pursuits are best
understood as specializations, vocations, or sometimes hobbies. A naval career
officer might have a Life Pursuit of Astrogator (which reflects a career
specialization) and another Life Pursuit of Acting (which is a hobby). A
character may complete a Life Pursuit card if he or she meets the
prerequisites for the Life Pursuit. A character may have any number of Life
Pursuits subject only to meeting the prerequisites, holding the required
skills, and meeting the required S+C.
	The list of Life Pursuits below is not comprehensive; other Life Pursuits can
be defined (and recorded) on Life Pursuit cards by the Game Master (often at
the behest of a player)..
	The Life Pursuit Card. Form 47 is used to record a specific Life Pursuit.
Characters create a Life Pursuit Card when they decide to embrace a specific
Life Pursuit. Because Life Pursuits reflect specializations and interests,
most characters restrict themselves to two or three Life Pursuits.
	Aspirations. A character may aspire to a Life Pursuit even if he or she does
not meet the requirements. If an individual aspires to a Life Pursuit, it
means he or she "wishes" he or she could do that. The Experience rule allows a
character with a Life Pursuit card to take the 4-year term skill level
increase in any skill noted on a Life Pursuit card (including on an Aspiring
Life Pursuit.
	S+C. Many life pursuits are determined by the ability to be successful. A
combination of Skill and Characteristic (S+C) of 12 is enough to virtually
guarantee success at Average tasks; S+C 15 can guarantee success at Difficult
tasks; S+C 18 can guarantee success at Formidable tasks. Many of the life
pursuits shown here indicate minimum levels of S+C.
	Its Always About Travelling. There are an infinite number of careers and life
pursuits possible, but Traveller player characters are primarily concerned
with jobs, careers, specializations, and avocations which include travel as
part of their responsibilities.

<tables incomplete>
 		Primary		Secondary		
	Life Pursuit	Skill	Char	S+C	Skill	Char	S+C	Prerequisite
Free Lance Military
	Mercenary					Served 1+ term in Marines or Army	
	Corsair					Served 1+ term in Navy.
	Bandit					
Professions
	Doctor	Medical				MD.
	Surgeon	Medical	Dex			MD.
	EMT	First Aid	Dex
	Teacher	Instruction	Edu			
The Trades
	Mechanic	Mechanical				
	Carpenter	Mechanical		Craftsman		
	Electronicist	Electronics				
	Hacker	Computer				
Starship
	Engineer	Engineering				
	Astrogator	Astrogation				
	Pilot	Pilot				
	Gunner	Gunnery				
	Steward	Steward				
Other
	Cryptographer	Cryptography				
	Miner					
	Athlete	Athletics				
	Prospector	Prsopecting				


<Life Pursuit Card snipped>

<added for reference>

EXPERIENCE (T5)
	The completion of the character generation process does not end the
accumulation of skills. Characters receive one skill level every year.
	Experience Points (EP). An experience point is expressed as a skill and a
point (such as Pistol-1*). It is followed by an asterisk to distinguish it
from a skill level.
	Procedure. At the end of every game session, the game master awards EPs.
After evaluating the game activities, the game master awards one EP to each
character, based on the skill which was best or most effectively used by the
character during that session. Each player records the EP for his or her
character. [if only one game session is played during a character's year, he
or she has one opportunity to get an EP; if there are 10 sessions, then he or
she has 10 opportunities to get EPs; EP awards are mandatory (unless tthe
characters were in cold sleep the whole time, or something)]
	On the character’s birthday, EPs are examined [for example, Pistol-1*,
Rifle-4*, Cryptogarphy 3*]. The EP with the highest level of usage is
converted to one level of skill and awarded to the character. All other
Experience Points are lost [so on his birthday, Eneri Dinsha gets +1 to
Rifle.]
	Aging Bonus. In addition to normal experience skill increases, each time the
character consults the aging table (on his or her birthday) [or should this be
on every year Mod 4 (ie 22, 26, 30, etc), the character may receive one level
of skill in any skill listed on a Life Pursuit card (alternatively, the second
highest level of Experience Points is converted to a skill level for the
character).
	Restrictions. Because Experience Points can only be awarded in terms of
skills actually used, they can only be awarded in skills already held by the
character, or in default skills. The only ways of acquiring non-default skills
not already held by a character is through education (through formal education
or instruction by another character), or from a Life Pursuit Card [allows
choice of this particular skill without regard to use, and it can come from an
Achieved Life Pursuit (perhaps Acting) in which the character has some skill,
or from his one Aspiring Life Pursuit (perhaps Astrogation) even though the
character does not have that skill... because he has been studying on his own
in his spare time.]


Marc

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1135
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Friday, November 13 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1136



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: T5
Re: T5: Cards
Re: EARNED Social Standing 
Re: Spending the IISS' budget 
re:  sexually flavored content
[none]
Re: Life Pursuits
Minor Races
Re: T5: Cards
Re: Color Coding (was: Re: T5) More
Re: OPINIONS OF T4?
Re: OPINIONS OF T4?
Re: Minor Races
Re: sexually flavored content
Re: T5 Discussion Draft
Re: GT: Return of the Ancients?
Re: T5: Cards
[TML] FFS3 request (RE: Scout (T4 Stats))
re: sexually flavored content
Re: greater range = greater chance of success?
re: sexually flavored content

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 23:59:13 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: T5

In a message dated 11/12/98 5:01:07 PM Central Standard Time,
lhale@panlabs.com writes:

<<      In the information you posted regarding the new T5, there was a list
 of occupations.  The list did not include a Psion, was that an accident or
 a purposeful omission?  In the list of proposed settings, you did not
 provide one for the TNE setting, will there never be anything more do for
 that setting?
  >>

The list was of careers for character generation. I just posted "Life
Pursuits." In my opinion, Psionic is a Life Pursuit rather than a career.
Conceivably (and assuming that various discriminatory legislation is not in
force, it would be possible to have a Scout Psionic or a Naval Psionic or an
Entertainer Actor Psionic. A psionic then becomes a specialization within a
career, or an interest independent of a career, or a hobby. Even someone
running a Psionic Institute becomes a Scholar Professor Psionic, or perhaps a
Functionary Administrator Psionic.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 00:02:35 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: T5: Cards

In a message dated 11/12/98 5:20:27 PM Central Standard Time,
Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca writes:

<< 
 I'd suggest making them the same size as CCG cards, so that organized
 types can get those plastic cardholder sheets and just load up their
 characters that way.
 
  >>

I have specified that most will be 2.5 x 3.5 inch cards, which is the CCG card
size (same as Magic cards). Some cards are, however, 7 x 2.5 and some are 3.5
x 5 (various double sizes in order to carry enough information).

I'd like them to be round cornered and of sturdy stock, but they are not
Collectible in the Magic sense. They are useful and even tradable for some
people.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 20:47:27 -0600
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: EARNED Social Standing 

>>How do other refs handle Social Standing of this type (i.e. unrelated to
>>nobility in any way)? How do you represent a person who
>>was born to commoners and holds no noble title, yet exercises extreme
>>influence through fame or wealth?


Well, 2300 AD allows characters to build up renown points.
That wouldn't quite be SS, but it could work for a way to build up influence
without a huge
SS.

TV

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 00:15:57 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Spending the IISS' budget 

> the scout in Supp 7 had a bay which was to hold seensor equipment, I
> take this to mean that the Exploratory/Survey sensors are removed before
> the ship is let out on detached duty leaving it with a standard Civilian
> suite.

That's how it looks from here.  IIRC, there was even mention of a 4 ton sensor 
module that dropped into the 'cargo' area of the Type S.  I can't remember 
where I saw this, or how much it cost.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:22:54 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: re:  sexually flavored content

Ha Ha Ha ha Choke Ha.

Naturally, haven't you ever been to a mechanic's workshop?

:)

At 19:00 12/11/98 -0700, you wrote:
>At 06:17 am 11/12/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>
>>>We don't need a chapter on "The Joy of Hiver Sex",
>>>nor do we need diagrams in FF&S3 on the subject. 
>>
>>Might make the serious gearheads happier...
>
>	Are you implying serious gearheads need vicarious, alien, sex to
>fill a void in their lives ...?
>-- Dave Golden
>-- House in Colorado Springs for sale! 
>-- http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/House
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:40:10 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: [none]

Dear Folks -

Keven wrote:
>Not a bad idea.  But what color do we use for variant Milieus to use?

How about purple with pink polka dots?

;-)

Anyway, aveagoodweekend, I'm off.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:35:30 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Life Pursuits

>...The Life Pursuit Card. Form 47 ...
You WERE in the forces weren't you!
:)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 01:07:19 -0500
From: Brandon Quina <lore@tmgbbs.com>
Subject: Minor Races

Someone said earlier, in a message that I accidently erased, that minor
races are mostly within 10 parsecs of their homeworld.  I'd like to ask
a simple question.  Why?

	Minor Races didn't develop the Jump drive when they were discovered,
but that wouldn't prevent them from either developing it after they were
initially found or being given access to the technology by their
discoverers.  With access to the technology, Minor Races could be just
as good at starfaring as their Major Race counterparts.  Infact, I
imagine thats one of the main things that gets Minor Races upset about
their designation:  No matter how many accomplishments they achieve,
they are forever dubbed 'Minor' races.




- -- 
Brandon,

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 98 23:47:16 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: T5: Cards

On 11/12/98 at 05:50 PM,  Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior) said:

>>These cards will be consumables, so replacing them should be
>>easy and inexpensive.

>Yup. 

>I'd suggest making them the same size as CCG cards, so that organized
>types can get those plastic cardholder sheets and just load up their
>characters that way.

Are the CCG cards standard playing card size (2.5x3.5")?  I've never
handled the abominations.  ;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 98 23:15:59 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Color Coding (was: Re: T5) More

On 11/12/98 at 02:41 PM,  CardSharks@aol.com said:

>And one last thought...

>Faraway Sector. A kit/boxed set with blank maps and everything you
>need to set up a sector on the edge of charted space.

Thanks for not forgetting those of us who are playing in other
universes. 

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 22:18:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Camino <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: OPINIONS OF T4?

sgkramer@juno.com wrote:
I am considering purchasing T4, mostly based on the positive
experience I had with Classic Traveller quite a few years ago in
college.  If I am to dive into Traveller again, I would like to
go with the current version (besides, I have no idea where my old
traveller stuff is).I have been surfing the internet looking for
Traveller info (there is plenty) and came across a scathing review of
T4, a.k.a. "Marc Miller's Traveller".  I have listed the review below.
Is the game really as bad as this guy says it is?  If so, maybe I
should give up my plans on picking up the game again.  What do you
think?

========
A few thoughts.  First, the date of the review was almost two years
after the book was published, and a couple of months after IG has
effectively bitten the dust.  Second, there are several other reviews
published on the web that cover the content and that of the later
books in better detail.  My conclusion for you here is that the T4
Rule book had a number of hurry induced faults and a few failings, but
that the system does have it's redeaming qualities.

All that being said, I would encourage you to spend your money on the
original Traveller rules (available many places on the web, even on
eBay.com) or on the Mega Traveller rules set (ditto).  I think that
they would be to your liking based on your previous involvement with
the game.

Also note from the discussion here that T5 will probably be available
next year.  In production now is GURPS Traveller from Steve Jackson
Games ( www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller ).  Finally, if further
research convinces you that T4 id worth a try (I have enjoyed it) then
you will find that the books are available many places at a good
discount from their original.  For instance, there are several listed
on http://surf.to/traveller-trader , which is a free trading page that
I put up.

Finally, let me encourage you to pick up the game, in whatever form,
and enjoy it.  There is nothing else so versitile, rich and enjoyable
as THE original Sci-Fi RPG!




==
- ------------------------><>------------------------
IMTU 0601 tc++ tm !tn t4+ ?tg ru++ 3i pi ta+ he+ 
=>UTUP 0309 0-400A04C-5-8-2<=

You might be a Traveller fanatic if... your resume includes a UPP and skill listing!
http://come.to/traveller

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 19:18:53 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: OPINIONS OF T4?

Date sent:      	Thu, 12 Nov 1998 23:38:16 -0500
From:           	sgkramer@juno.com (Samuel G. Kramer)

>Hello,

>I am considering purchasing T4, mostly based on the positive
>experience I had with Classic Traveller quite a few years ago in
>college.  If I am to dive into Traveller again, I would like to
>go with the current version (besides, I have no idea where my old
>traveller stuff is).

>I have been surfing the internet looking for Traveller info
>(there is plenty) and came across a scathing review of T4, a.k.a.
>"Marc Miller's Traveller".  I have listed the review below.

Well, T4 isn't exactly the current version, Marc Millar is currently working on a 
major revision (T5) which should be out sometime near the end of 1999 
(hopefully). However the review is unduly harsh. T4 (and most IG products) had 
some very serious quality problems (mostly layout and excessive errata). 
However I'd rate the basic T4 rule book 6 out of 10 (but you do need to get the 
errata from the IG website). If you enjoyed CT you will probably find T4 
worthwhile, but it would be better to wait for T5.

T4 products with ratings
  Basic Rules = C
  Starships = E
  Central Supply Catalog = B
  Aliens Archives = C
  Mileau 0 (softback) = A
  Mileau 0 (hardback) = A+
  First Survey = E-
  Emperors Arsenal = B
  Pocket Empires = A
  Anomolies = D
  Psionic Institutes = A
  Fire Fusion and Steel = A (but get the errata, its useless without it)
  Emperors Vehicles = E
  Naval Architects Handbook = C
  Imperial Squadrons = C
  Missions of State = D
  Long Way Home (BITS edition) = C-
  Long Way Home (IG edition) = D-
  Gateway = C-
  Analik Run = E

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 22:44:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Camino <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Minor Races

Brandon wrote:
Someone said earlier, in a message that I accidently erased, that minor
races are mostly within 10 parsecs of their homeworld.  I'd like to ask
a simple question.  Why?
===

Simple sociology.  Here in Maine we have a few "Minor Races".  They
are seldom seen outside of their little enclaves in Portland.  Nature
of the beast.  It's easier to blaze new trails in the wilderness than
among other cultures.  Sad, perhaps, but true.
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 23:50:50 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: sexually flavored content

> From: igor@truserve.com
> Subject: Re: sexually flavored content
> > >Might make the serious gearheads happier...
> > I'm just picturing Andy's spreadsheet on the topic..
> I've gotta finish the BL/BR additions and some bug fixes. Then we can get
to work on this.
> Anything to make you happy Doug :) Besides, Kenji should be pleased as
well.
> Pelvic-mounted plasma guns, chest-mounted sensor arrays, and
backside-mounted sand
> dispensers will be available.

Hey, my gf looked great in all of that...  *weg*

> And skin-tight see-through battle dress is _all_ the rage, right Ditzie?

And, I was stunning in my see-through battle dress, you even said, well, I
had better not say, but I know your sig other would not like it... *weg*

> And DON'T get me started on some of the robotic *cough* companions we can
come up with...

That was my niece... *weg*

> Andy Akins
> igor@truserve.com

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 23:36:36 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: T5 Discussion Draft

CardSharks@aol.com [Marc Miller] wrote

> >Charts. The focus of T5 is the chart pages which detail how to do
> >things succinctly and clearly. The rules text then gives examples
> >and discussion of this material.

>  This is one of the best ways I've seen to present information.  MT 
>  made great use of this technique, and I personally prefer it.

> I had a continuing struggle with IG, insisting that the writers do 
> their charts first and then write text around them, and being ignored 
> time and again. Good role-playing writing has to concentrate on charts 
> and information, not on narrative.

I agree that charts and information are vital to be able _to_ play the
game but it seems to me that some narrative material is necessary to
make people _want_ to play the game.  If the game does not catch peoples
interest then why are they going to want to play it?  [This may be a
question of terminology and Marc may well have been including background
information in information.]

The trend in the RPG industry (IMNSHO) is towards greater emphasis on
story and less emphasis on system.  I would like a simple system that
had a plausible level of believability with options for detail. More
than that I would like to see a T5 where someone new to Traveller would
pick up the book and say "Hey this looks like a fun & interesting
setting to play in." if they happened to say "Hey this is a good
system." that would be nice too but is not as important.

I have had good role playing experiences with all kinds of systems.  It
seems to me tha it is the Ref (and to a lessser extent, the players) who
make a game work, the rules just make it easier.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 23:52:14 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: GT: Return of the Ancients?

"Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us>

> This message contains information from the Ref's Only section of 
> Behind The Claw.  If this, for whatever reason, may spoil some of 
> the excitement of an ongoing Traveller campaign, please read no 
> further.  

> Has anyone noticed the possibilities that have been planted regarding 
> the Return of the Ancients to the Spinward Marches in GT:BTC?  some 
> evidence that indicates that one of Grandfather's Children (or 
> Grandchildren, or a clone, or a pseudobiological construct of some 
> kind) has returned to the Marches:

[snip of most of jasons quotes]

> 1109:  The Imperial vessel Midu Kunivaak was saved by an unknown 
> vessel from plunging into a Gas Giant, without using tow lines of any 
> sort.  The vessel then fled under high acceleration before it could 
> identify itself.

I agree with you on most of your examples but I think this particular
example is more likely to have been one of the new GTL 13 [TTL 16]
Darrian patrol cruisers.  It probably used its repulsors to help the
Midu Kunivaak.  [See it's TNE stats in the Regency SB] althoughtits
repulsor may not be strong enough to help a 3,000 ton Midu class ship.

I am note sure that a Ancient has much of a _motive_ to save an Imperial
ship.  Further if it wanted too it may well have been capable of doing
so from sufficient range that it would have been undetected by the Midu
Kunivaak's crew who were presumably a bit busy.  A Darrian Patrol
Cruiser on the other hand would have two good reasons to help the
Imperials 1) they are allies and 2) Humanitarian reasons.

I will note that to a Darrian it might seem that the Imperium was
getting closer to the Sword Worlds given the GT treatment of
developments in the Sword Worlds & the Border Worlds.  Where an
objective observer might see Impeial membership for a former Sword World
as a good thing which would lead to assimilation a Darrian might see it
as the thin wedge that will result in the Imperium (or at least the
parts near the Darrian Confederation) assimilating Sworld Worlder
values.

- -- 
The Universe is governed by the complex interweaving of three things:
matter, energy, and enlightened self-interest.  --G'Kar

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 00:10:14 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: T5: Cards

Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior) wrote

> >These cards will be consumables, so replaceing them should be
> >easy and inexpensive.

> I'd suggest making them the same size as CCG cards, so that organized
> types can get those plastic cardholder sheets and just load up their
> characters that way.

US Games Systems makes and sells decks of blank standard size playing
cards.  You can get them blank on both sides or blank on one side with a
standard playing card back on the other.  A deck of 55 cards retails for
$3 US, which is only about 5.5 cents each.  They also are available in
decks of 80 for about the same cost per card.  Distributor/Retailer
pricing is even lower, of course.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:24:38 +0000
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
Subject: [TML] FFS3 request (RE: Scout (T4 Stats))

At 22:59 12/11/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Benada, Rob wrote:
>
>>>   Still can't keep the cost down as low as the book.  I wounder where
>
>>> they fudges the cost to keep it so low?
>>> Leo
>>
>>In MT, FFS1 and  FFS2 jump drives are way over priced for the volume:
>>0.3 Mcr per m^3 when it should be 0.3 Mcr per Displacement Ton. As a
>>result the J-Drives are 14 times too expensive when compared to CT,
>High
>>Guard and T4 basic design.
>>
>>The error was introduced in MT when they went to m^3 and has been
>>propagated ever sense.
>>
>>I have not noted this in any of the errata for any of these
>>publications.
>
>Actually I just did a check on this and the price change was in High
>Gaurd and it is only 2 - 4 times CT prices
>
>
>                        MCr/m^3              MCr/dT
>Book 2              (.074 - .142)         varies 1 - 1.92
>High Gaurd       (.296)                   4.0
>MegaTraveller   (.222)                  3.0
>FF&S                .3                        (4.2)
>QSDS                (.021)                  .3
>SSDS                 .3                        4.2
>FF&S2              .3                        4.2
>
>Charles
>
Whilst the price per dTon may have changed from CT, I think that you'll
find that the number of dTon remains the same.

The model A drive is 10dTon and provides Jump 2 for a 100dTon ship.
On all later systems, the drive volume would be around 3dTon.

So the price ends up the same.

Figure that the book 2 drives were designed to be built by TL9 industry.
(The design is TL11 to get Jump 2 but presumably the TL15 3I figured a
way to manufacture the device at TL9).
The consequence of this is that the device is much bigger than necessary
at TL11+ but can be built and maintained at all those TL9 and 10 starport 'A's

I request for FFS3:

Since the policy of using high tech design to allow the construction of
devices at TLs that is not sufficient to design them, at a significant
size penalty, is enshired in LBB canon: could we have rules for this?

Presumably you offset higher TL architect's fees against lower TL production.

Phil Kitching

- --
  Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
 "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 00:53:34 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: re: sexually flavored content

bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh) wrote

> > >We don't need a chapter on "The Joy of Hiver Sex",
> > >nor do we need diagrams in FF&S3 on the subject. 

> >But we _do_ need diagrams & design systems for half a dozen types of
> >laser, plasma, fusion, PAW, "meson", gauss, etc. weapons?  

> Speaking only for myself, while I know little about tumbling bullet 
> wounds or particle accelerator weapons and hence need a rulebook to 
> explain them to me, my knowledge of the . . . squishier subject is at 
> least sufficient that I don't need diagrams.

I am perfectly willing to believe that your knowledge of the squishier
subject is adequate for Solomani charecters but is your knowledge really
adequate in the case of non human, or non Solomani, charecters?  If so I
think you could nake some money talking to some people at The Weekly
World News....

For instance the Darmine minor human race, as designed by me, have quite
high sexual drives.  However I have never mentioned the fact that the
reason the Darmine are so promiscuous is that the Ancients made them
that way.  The Darmine homeworld has a very high metal content and the
Ancients were somewhat annoyed when their protohuman servants kept dying
do to heavy metal poisoning.  So they put active measures [nanites,
genetic engineering, or both] into the Darmine which attack and destroy
foreign bodies (especially heavy metals).  However the Ancients soon
discovered that this included Sperm and embryos.  Therefore the Darmine
had a very low fertility rate.  Rather than fix this problem by
modifying the protective measures to not seek out reproductive materials
the (rather sloppy) technician in charge merely increased the libido of
the Darmine.  By engaging in sexual congress with about ten or fifteen
times the frequency that members of most other human races do the
Darmine have achieved a reproductive rate almost as good as that of most
other versions of humanity.  Furthermore the active protective measures
in the Darmines cells have an ability to learn.  Therefore Darmine women
are much less likely to be able to have a second child from the same
Darmine man.  This has resulted in the Darmine culture being poly with
group marriages the rule.  The high libido has also resulted in
bisexuality being the prevalant sexual Darmine sexual orientation as few
Darmine are willing to pass up sex based on details such as their
partners gender.

The typical Darmine will not even know who their genetic father was and
in fact will be _quite_ insulted [IE a Determination check not to be
upset or even flip out] if anyone asks because this obviously (to a
Darmine) implies that 1) Their mother was so inadequate that she had
sexual relations with one male partner during the period the charecter
was conceived 2) The Darmine is some kind of pervert who would, for some
strange reason, want to know who their father was enough to have a
genetic test done or 3) The charecter is so sickly that they needed to
know for medical reasons.

[The Darmine incest taboo is based on whom the charecter grew up with
and their maternal relatives rather than who their unknown paternal
relatives.  Fortunately the Darmine gene pool is fairly small,
homogeneous, and with very few bad traits in it so this does not cause
reproductive problems if Darmine happen to mate with a paternal
relative.]

As a result it is fairly rare for Darmine Imperial Nobles to inherit
their titles patrilineally.  Male Darmine Imperial Nobles may designate
a heir to their titles.

I do not see how I could present some of these cultural details without
talking about sex.  Marc Miller would (apparently) prefer not to discuss
them.  It is his decision and I fully understand his reasons.  This does
not however mean that the rest of us can not discuss it.

The CT writeups of the Hiver, the Aslan and (to a lesser extent) the
K'Kree include discussions of the reproductive roles, and gender roles
of these races.  These writeups do not however contain prurient or
risque bits.  It is not unreasonable to expect future Traveller writers
to be able to do similar writups for future races.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 01:01:41 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: greater range = greater chance of success?

SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> wrote

> >> Skim reading T4's combat section I can't see anything on the 
> >> spectacular success affecting combat.

> >let's say that the person is wearing
> >something that as a rating of 4R. So my Average task can't hit him, 
> >but by stepping away to 46 meters I can, if I get spectacular 
> >success. This situation strikes me as odd.

> I see what you mean. However, I think it is heading towards the
> hypothetical because a double 1 roll on an average task will hit with 
> a skill of 1 and characteristic of 1 (total asset = 2).

Maybe this is realistic.  With skill 1 and charecteristic 1 it is
arguable that the only way this charecter _can_ hit is blind luck. 
Therefore all their hits will be spectacular sucess's.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 23:42:04 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: re: sexually flavored content

Date sent:      	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 00:53:34 -0900
From:           	Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>

>I am perfectly willing to believe that your knowledge of the squishier
>subject is adequate for Solomani charecters but is your knowledge really
>adequate in the case of non human, or non Solomani, charecters?  If so I
>think you could nake some money talking to some people at The Weekly
>World News....

>For instance the Darmine minor human race, as designed by me, have...

>...that this included Sperm and embryos.  Therefore the Darmine
>had a very low fertility rate.  Rather than fix this problem by
>modifying the protective measures to not seek out reproductive materials
>the (rather sloppy) technician in charge merely increased the libido of
>the Darmine.  By engaging in sexual congress with about ten or fifteen
>times the frequency that members of most other human races do the
>Darmine have achieved a reproductive rate almost as good as that of most
>other versions of humanity.

One slight problem. Human reproduction doesn't quite work that way. Firstly 
the females will still be releasing only one egg per cycle and no amount of 
extra bonking is going aid in its survival against the nanitites etc. Secondly 
(and far more importantly), this will actually _decrease_ male fertility! After 
ejaculation, the male sperm count takes some time (days) to build back up. 
Now you have the Darmine having intercourse several times a day (10-15 times 
the "norm") and this will dramatically lower male sperm counts leading to a 
major _drop_ in fertility.

If you wish the Darmine to have a far higher libido, just make it a biochemical 
sideaffect of the protective measures that the Ancients never saw fit to correct 
(hey, so these humans are at it like rabbits, not a problem for the Ancients to 
worry about). The extra sexual activity should make up for the drop in fertility it 
causes.


Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1136
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Friday, November 13 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1137



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Order
Re: sexually flavored content
re: sexually flavored content
Re: Tweaked Postmark Design Bureau Scout
Re: Tweaked Postmark Design Bureau Scout
Re: Minor Races
OPINIONS OF T4?
Lost Files
Re: Opinion of T4
Re: Color Coding (was: Re: T5)
Re: sexually flavoured content
Re: Minor Races
Freelance Traveller To Move
Empress Wave?
re: sexually flavored content

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 05:56:21 -0500
From: John Macek <macek@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Order

Sanders wrote:
> 
> At 10:59 PM 11/11/98 +0800, you wrote:
> >>Speaking of which -  I've only had 16 orders during a four month period,
> >
> >
> >Make that 17...
> >
> >
> >could you let me know the price and address?
> 
> There are five Andrew Keith supplements (and an extra 'freebie' booklet for
> each). They are $20 each or the set for $100 (The set comes with an
> additional 'freebie' - Imperial Calendar by Bill Keith). The supplements are:
> 
> 1) Faldor - World of Adventure
> 2) Letter of Marque - Rogues in Space I
> 3) Scam - Rogues in Space II
> 4) Starport Planetfall
> 5) Arctic Environment
> 

What sort of format are these books in?  8.5x11?  How many pages?

John

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 03:27:12 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: sexually flavored content

At 01:11 PM 11/12/98 -0500, you wrote:

>And no, we don't need a combat system that complicated. In fact, I would
>HATE to see what is essentially a simple game polluted with that kind of
>stuff. For one thing, "accurately" modelling anything is pretty subjective
>in a game where your first three stats are your hit points; when's the last
>time you took damage to your Dexterity? let the realism freaks design their
>own cumbersome systems; Traveller should go no farther into combat
>"realism" than say Snapshot or maybe TNE (with more reasonable hit point
>totals) and leave it at that, IMO.

In ACQ we point out that the damage effects against STR, DEX and END can be
seen as the effects of tissue damage and blood loss.  STR loss might be
seen as damage that prevents you from fully using your body, such as broken
bones or muscle tears.  DEX loss could refer to the fuzziness felt by
wounded people, blood loss, or actual damage to the extremities.  END loss
is mostly blood loss.  So you can get pretty descriptive without resorting
to Rolemasterish tables.
- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 02:49:50 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: re: sexually flavored content

"Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz> wrote

[Warning - This post contains frank discussion of human reproduction.]

> From:                   Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>

> >For instance the Darmine minor human race, as designed by me, have...
> 
> >...that this included Sperm and embryos.  Therefore the Darmine
> >had a very low fertility rate.  
> >the (rather sloppy) technician in charge merely increased the libido 
> >of the Darmine.  By engaging in sexual congress with about ten or 
> >fifteen times the frequency that members of most other human races do 
> >the Darmine have achieved a reproductive rate almost as good as that 
> >of most other versions of humanity.
> 
> One slight problem. Human reproduction doesn't quite work that way. 
> Firstly the females will still be releasing only one egg per cycle and 
> no amount of extra bonking is going aid in its survival against the   > nanitites etc.

The protective measures will destroy many fertilized eggs before they
can implant in the ovarioan walls.  They may also destroy sperm before
they reach the egg or may even destoy the egg itself before fertiliztion
(the egg only has half the womans DNA and is therefore "foreign").  Once
they implant the measures should recognize it as part of the womans
body.  Therefore fewer egg/sperm unions will result in pregnancy. 
Therefore in order to ensure an adequate number of children their need
to be more opportunities for each egg released to have a chance to be
fertalized. That means more sex.  For the Darmine the big question is if
implantation will occur in the first place.

To put it in game mechanics terms I would say that (in a situation where
another woman would conceive) a Darmine woman needs to crit fail a End
(HT in GTrav) to represent the nanites not destroying the sperm, the
egg, or both.

> Secondly  (and far more importantly), this will actually _decrease_ 
> male fertility! After ejaculation, the male sperm count takes some 
> time (days) to build back up. Now you have the Darmine having 
> intercourse several times a day (10-15 times 
> the "norm") 

Possibly I should drop this to five times the norm or (less pruriently)
just note that they have a very high sex drive.

> and this will dramatically lower male sperm counts leading 
> to a major _drop_ in fertility.

Well my understanding of Solomani reprodution was that the female was
sometimes fertilized with sperm that were many hours old.  The body of a
Darmine woman would (probably) already have eliminated these foreign
bodies.  Therefore in order to be impregnated she would need to have had
sex closer to the time of ovulation.  I am assuming that (with the TL 0
they had after the final war) the Darmine could not tell when their
women were fertile (I know some low tech cultures had some semi reliable
rules of thumb but I am assuming the Darmine did not).  Therefore in
order to ensure pregnancy the female would need to have had sex more
recently.

The fact that Darmine men might be releasing fewer sperm each time is
not the relevant factor for Darmine, the important factor is that the
sperm would be _fresher_.  I should also note that Darmine are
theoretically fertile with nonDarmine but that a DArmine/non Darmine
mating is even less likely to be fertile than a Darmine/Darmine mating
and that the mother needs to be Darmine (or the baby must be gestated in
an artificial womb) or the fetus will not not be able to survive.

> If you wish the Darmine to have a far higher libido, just make it a
> biochemical sideaffect of the protective measures that the Ancients 
> never saw fit to correct 

It could also be unrelated, have evolved since then, be caused by the
founder effect, or something similar. Possibly but I am kind of attached
to the notion that these facts are interrelated.  When I was first
developing the Darmine the notion that they had strong defenses against
foreign bodies (especially heavy metals) and that they had strong
libidos were unrelated.  However this year it occured to me that there
was a way to tie these itmes together.  It made the Darmine (INHO) seem
a bit more real, and a bit more controlled by their biology.

However I am by no means a medical expert and would appreciate any
comentary from those who have said medical knowledge. If said comments
were from a naturally perverse source (Hi Kenji) all the better.  I have
no interest in creating bits of detail that are obviously false to those
knowledgable in the field.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 18:37:16
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Tweaked Postmark Design Bureau Scout

I was going to design a lowest-bidder Scout, but I'd rather tweak the
Postmark Design Bureau version.

>From: Traveller <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
>Subject: Re: Ship Design question
>
>Scout/Courier (FF&S v2)
>Designed by Postmark Design Bureau
>
>Statistics
>	Tons:               100std ( SL Med Cone Hypersonic )
>	Volume:            1400m3
>	Mass (L/C):         972t/896t
>	Dimensions:          27.8m x 13.9m x 13.9m
>	Size:                 8
> Crew:                 1/2
> Cargo:                3std (0/00)
> Passengers High/Med:  2/0
> Maintenance Points:  38
> Cost:                30.01 MCr
> Tech Level:           9 (9/12)
>
>Electronics
> Controls:       Computer, High automation. 3xComp (CM:0.5 CP:2.0).
>                 Terrain following sensors (TF:390, NOE:130). Bridge.
>	Communications: 1xRadio (500,000km, 0.17MW). 1xLaser (1,000AU, 0MW).
>	Sensors:        1xPEMS (12.5 [1.6mkm], 0MW). 1xLIDAR (14 [200kkm], 0.3MW).
>	Signatures:     Vis:0, IR: -0.5 (-0.5 at 34MW, -0.5 at 20MW),
>                 Act:0, Neu:-1, Grav:-2
>
>Performance
> 			2	    Jump (10std/pc fuel)
>	 0.9/0.9	Maneuver (/HEPlaR:42MW,16.1 G-hours)
>	 0.9/1  	Contra-grav (16MW)
>	1653kph/1779kph	Atmosphere (/Crus:1240kph/1334kph)
> 			2	    Power (/Fus:78.5MW,1yr )

This could probably be trimmed by 15 MW or so, if this was compensated for
by the battery pack below.

In jump space you will need 50.2 MW for the jump-drive, 3.5 MW for 1G of
compensation, 0.5 MW for the Computers, 0.5 MW for life support and call it
0.5 MW for the rest. Thats 55.7 MW demand. Call it 60 MW.

Remember that every megawatt of surplus power plant capability adds MCr 0.1
to the sticker cost.

Trimming power output to 63 MW should reduce the size of the power plant by
7.5 m3, the mass of the ship by 30t and the cost of the ship by MCr 1.5.

We now spend this 7.5 m3 on a 3000 kN thruster plate unit, which results in
a net mass reduction of 15t, and a net cost increase of MCr 0.35 ... but we
have the capability to go anywhere in-system at about one third of a gee
(using the t-plates costs 7.5 MW at full bore). <ooops, this is illegal,
but I add another 1000 kN of t-plates later>.

Now, the Heplar drive uses 10.5 m3 of h-fuel per hour, so if we cut the
Heplar down to 14 hours we get another 21 m3 and 1.5t to play with.


>			34.7	  Fuel (/Scoop:9 /Purif:24,2MW)
>	 		0/0/4/0/0	Accomodations
>			32	Life Sup. (/Ty:St,Nm /'St)

I'd really like a version with type IV long-duration life support, to allow
for long-term independant operations. This would cost 11.2 m3, 11.2 t,
about 0.3 MW and about MCr 0.6 extra.

>  		2	G-Comp

We could take this down to one gee - it isnt as if the Scout will be
accelerating that fast. This will save 4.2 m3, about 0.1 t and about MCr 0.2.

>				0 [20]	Armor, 6 Structure
>
>Weaponry
>	1xTurret (+0) 1/2-2-2-0 [2,200/16-16-13-7] (SR)
>
>Features
>	1xAirlock
>	1xOrdinary Galley (Cap:4)

The galley is a nice touch, but I think the crew may have preferred a
sanitary facility.
Add a SanFac for 3.5 m3, 0.05t and negligible cost.

>
>Small Craft
>	1xMinHgr (4std, 1 hatches)

If we take this down to 2 dtons, we can put in 2 dtons of TL12 batteries.
This will allow us 42 MW of extra power for one hour - enough to move and
shoot, for a while at least. This will increase mass by about 56t, though,
and cost MCr 0.14.

>
>Backups
>	Communications: 1xRadio (50,000km). 1xLaser (1,000AU).
>
>Crew Details
>	1xMnvr. 1xGunn.

OK, lets net this out ... plus battery pack, toilet, type IV life support,
t-plate unit. Minus smaller power plant, smaller HFuel reserve, only one
gee compensation, only 2dton of carried craft.

We have 11.5 m3 of extra space, but are 52.7t more massive, and we cost MCr
0.89 more.

OK, lets add another 1000 kN of t-plates, for an extra KCr 625 and an extra
5t.

The 9m3 is left spare as build room (i.e. for the mil-spec sensors we left
out).

Net unit (plus the extra t-plate unit) costs MCr 31.525 and masses 1030t
loaded.

It has whole-system capability at 0.4 gees, plus 14 hours of Heplar boost
to take you up to one point four gees. In normal space operations, it uses
about 55 MW, so you only really need the battery pack if you intend to be
laser armed. 

Ditzie is telling me to double the size of that Heplar unit, so it can pull
two and a half gees, but I dont want to cope with the maths.

Puuuut the gun down Ditzie ... sloooooowly. I'm your *friend* remember ...

Use 6 m3 of build room. Mass goes up 6t. Cost goes up MCr 0.06. We get
another 12 000 kN of thrust, using another 15 m3 of HFuel per hour and
another 60 MW of power at full bore.

Total thrust from Heplar is therefore 20 400 kN, or a straight 2 gees. The
HFuel will hold out for ... ummm 147 m3 HFuel in total ... 20 400 kN uses
25.5 m3 an hour ... thats 5 hours 40 minutes. Full bore the Heplar uses 102
MW, so we run out of power a lot sooner than that.

Oh, and 140 m3 of that is enough to pull another jump-1, so you have the
option of using the HFuel to jump rather than run. Therefore, it is worth
keeping the HFuel reserve that big.

OK, the ship now costs MCr 31.6, masses 1036t and has 20400 kN from Heplar
and 4000 kN from thruster plates, and is brutally underpowered in combat.

On the other hand, it is cheap, and quite capable of long-term independant
operations.

If Ditzie wasnt looking particularily edgy, I'd keep tweaking the Heplar
down to a total maximum thrust of 2 gees, but she is, so I wont.

Bye.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:12:15 +0000
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Tweaked Postmark Design Bureau Scout

At 18:37 13/11/98, Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au> wrote:
>
>I was going to design a lowest-bidder Scout, but I'd rather tweak the
>Postmark Design Bureau version.

Thank you

I forgot to mention that Andrew Akins's wonderful FFS2 spreadsheet was
involved.

<snip>
>> 			2	    Power (/Fus:78.5MW,1yr )
>
>This could probably be trimmed by 15 MW or so, if this was compensated for
>by the battery pack below.
>
>In jump space you will need 50.2 MW for the jump-drive, 3.5 MW for 1G of
>compensation, 0.5 MW for the Computers, 0.5 MW for life support and call it
>0.5 MW for the rest. Thats 55.7 MW demand. Call it 60 MW.

Unfortunately I was trying to keep to the Tech Level 9 limit, so the
compensation was 2G at TL 11 needing 9.8MW for 1G. If I had used 1G
compensation then it would be TL 10 and need 19.6MW.
If I admit defeat and use TL12 G-comp then you are correct.
Even so much of your power saving is available
(you could even run at 0.7G in Jump).

<snip>

>We now spend this 7.5 m3 on a 3000 kN thruster plate unit, which results in

but thrusters are high tech :-)
Given how the ship gets used in the game, your thrusters are
a reasonable addition to get the Type S we know and love.

<snip>

>>Features
>>	1xAirlock
>>	1xOrdinary Galley (Cap:4)
>
>The galley is a nice touch, but I think the crew may have preferred a
>sanitary facility.
>Add a SanFac for 3.5 m3, 0.05t and negligible cost.

You get it for no space or cost.
I already had one in the design but it did not appear on the report.

<snip>

>OK, the ship now costs MCr 31.6, masses 1036t and has 20400 kN from Heplar
>and 4000 kN from thruster plates, and is brutally underpowered in combat.
>
>On the other hand, it is cheap, and quite capable of long-term independant
>operations.
>
>Bye.
>
>Ian Whitchurch
>
And thankyou once again for your comments.

Phil Kitching
- --
  Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
 "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:31:33 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: Minor Races

At 01:07 AM 11/13/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Someone said earlier, in a message that I accidently erased, that minor
>races are mostly within 10 parsecs of their homeworld.  I'd like to ask
>a simple question.  Why?
>
>	Minor Races didn't develop the Jump drive when they were discovered,
>but that wouldn't prevent them from either developing it after they were
>initially found or being given access to the technology by their
>discoverers.  With access to the technology, Minor Races could be just
>as good at starfaring as their Major Race counterparts.  Infact, I
>imagine thats one of the main things that gets Minor Races upset about
>their designation:  No matter how many accomplishments they achieve,
>they are forever dubbed 'Minor' races.
>
The post was by Marc in reference to something proposed (or planned) for T5.

Minor races (the magority at least) do not usually have the drive to expand
that characterise races that develope jump drive on there own or they
simply do not have the technical skills to develope it on there own. The
exceptions to this would be races contacted before they had the chance to
develope jump drive, and these would be the ones most upset about the
"minor" designation - they may be just as technically enclined as the best
Droyne technician.

Once the majority of minor races are contacted, long range travel is
something they may not desire, and they stay close to their home perhaps
due to cultural reasons (or whatever reason the author of that race
determines :) ).

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:53:36 -0500
From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
Subject: OPINIONS OF T4?

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 23:38:16 -0500
From: sgkramer@juno.com (Samuel G. Kramer)
Subject: OPINIONS OF T4?
Hello,
I am considering purchasing T4, mostly based on the positive
experience I had with Classic Traveller quite a few years ago in
college.  If I am to dive into Traveller again, I would like to
go with the current version (besides, I have no idea where my old
traveller stuff is).
**************
well the "Current Version" is GURPS Traveller... same setting as Classic
just a few years later. (set in 1120)



Is the game really as bad as this guy says it is?  If so, maybe I
should give up my plans on picking up the game again.  What do
you think?
****************
I thought so, I played through the 3 previous incarnations, but T4 was
terrible.  my advice.. go with GURPS Traveller (and remember unlike some
game publishers SJG actualy pays their authors)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:17:54 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Lost Files

Peter L.S. Trevor asked about: The Lost Files

>Over the years there have been a number of aborted projects:
>Some of these were nearer to  publication  than  others,  and  it
<occured to me that some of these products  might  exist  in  some
>sort of crude draft form.  Obviously not up to the usual standard
>expected for published material ... but still of interest to  the
>gaming community.  I know this is a vain hope (I see  a  snowball
>in a location populated by beings with pitchforks), but if anyone
>is sitting on this material please, please, please could  me  see
>it (either here or on a web site)?

Here's what I know:
>- - Nobles (Imperium Games for T4)
No Clue -- I only wrote one job for IG, and that was the Bwaps for Aliens.
CHeck with whoever was supposed to write it.

>- - The Regency Ship Guide (GDW for TNE)

Nothing exists on this except some illegible scribbles in a file folder.
Nothing on computer, or easily portable. What details we put together for the
Clipper were mostly included in one book or another (Regency Equipment guide,
etc.)

>- - Armor 21 (GDW for T2K)

Dave Nilsen has the rights to this, and whatever work exists is in his hands.

>- - Manhunt: The Omnesium Quest Vol 1 (DGP for MT)

No clue. Marc Might know. Roger Sanger might know.

>- - Black Duke (DGP for MT)

No clue. See above.

>- - Marc Miller's Battles of the Rebellion (old DGP staff for MM for MT?)

No clue. See above

Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 00:12:05
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Opinion of T4

A
>Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 23:38:16 -0500
>From: sgkramer@juno.com (Samuel G. Kramer)
>Subject: OPINIONS OF T4?
>
>Hello,
>
>I am considering purchasing T4, mostly based on the positive
>experience I had with Classic Traveller quite a few years ago in
>college.  If I am to dive into Traveller again, I would like to
>go with the current version (besides, I have no idea where my old
>traveller stuff is).
>
>I have been surfing the internet looking for Traveller info
>(there is plenty) and came across a scathing review of T4, a.k.a.
>"Marc Miller's Traveller".  I have listed the review below.
>
>Is the game really as bad as this guy says it is?  If so, maybe I
>should give up my plans on picking up the game again.  What do
>you think?
>
>
>Regards,
>Sam Kramer

Sam, we have good news, and we have bad news.

The good news is that much of T4 was very good.

The bad news, is that the bits that sucked, *really* sucked (do not, under
any circumstances, pay for Starships or First Survey).

However, you are on the net, and this mailing list, so we can help you.

If you want starship designs, check out the THUDDD archives (do a Lycos
search on THUDDD).

T5 will solve the 'Impossible is Easy' problem by raising the difficulty
level by one, if you dont have as many skill levels as the difficulty level
(ie if you have skill 1, and it's a Hard task, then you roll 4 dice rather
than the 3 you would roll normally for a Hard skill). The other fix is to
make players roll their current stat or over to improve it in character
generation.

If you are a gearhead (someone who enjoys building the gadgets that make up
a technological universe), buy Fire Fusion and Steel.

If you like building a civilisation, get Pocket Empires.

I dont own Psionics Institutes, but people have said nice things about it.

Emperor's Arsenal was good for gun-heads, even if it didnt include Barbie's
Own Particle Pistol from Famile Spofulam.

In short, dive back in

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:51:52 +0400
From: Andy Long <andylong@emirates.net.ae>
Subject: Re: Color Coding (was: Re: T5)

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:46:47, Keven R. Pittsinger
<jamstar@glasscity.net> wrote:
> Subject: 
> 
<Snip>
> 
> Not a bad idea.  But what color do we use for variant Milieu to use?
> 

Octarine. Infra-dig. Ultra Violent.

- - -------------------------------------------------------
Andy Long			andylong@emirates.net.ae
C/o ICL			andyl@icluae.co.ae
PO Box 7237			andrewlong@hotmail.com
Abu Dhabi			+971 (50) 641 8232 (Mobile)
United Arab Emirates	+971 (2) 274688 (Res/Fax)
				+971 (2) 335200 (Office)
- - -------------------------------------------------------


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 00:29:39
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: sexually flavoured content

>From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
>Subject: re: sexually flavored content
>
>I don't mind not having gratuitous sex in the work, but I do find banning
>the whole issue of relationships a problem. It removes a lot of potential
>plotlines.

Look, Marc Miller is a Responsible Game Designer.

One of the realities of the gaming 'industry' is the fact that the Right
has a fair amount of clout, and it gets really uncomfortable about
sexuality, and especially about alternative sexualities.

Putting overt sexual material in Traveller is an easy way to cop unwanted
heat.

Of course, that is no reason the Sayat, or Samuel Delaney's s/m SF, or even
a post-pubescent Ditzammer Spofulam (1), or even something as sexually
loaded as, say, Dumas' Three Musketeers (2) cant turn up in your campaign,
it's just that the political realities are that it cant be seen to be
officially supported.

And thats cool.

Marc cant stop the *rest* of us speculating on the effect of, say, bonking
in the main tunnel of a charged but not fired spinal particle accelerator.
With magnetically active bo-mo jewelry that is. Can a physicist advise me
how hot 1 gram of metal would get 10 m from a 10 * 10^8 Tesla field when
moved at 1 m/s ?

Jump club. Feh :)

Ian Whitchurch

(1) I'm going off to hide now. If anyone wants me, email me at work, OK ?

(2) Just read it. With particular attention to, say, the relationship
between D'Artagnen and Kitty. And then think about if it should get an MA
rating.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 07:38:54 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Minor Races

Brandon Quina wrote:
> 
> Someone said earlier, in a message that I accidently erased, that minor
> races are mostly within 10 parsecs of their homeworld.  I'd like to ask
> a simple question.  Why?
> 
>         Minor Races didn't develop the Jump drive when they were discovered,
> but that wouldn't prevent them from either developing it after they were
> initially found or being given access to the technology by their
> discoverers.  With access to the technology, Minor Races could be just
> as good at starfaring as their Major Race counterparts.  Infact, I
> imagine thats one of the main things that gets Minor Races upset about
> their designation:  No matter how many accomplishments they achieve,
> they are forever dubbed 'Minor' races.

The 'someone' in question was Marc, discussing the Minor race generation
system draft from T5.

You're confusing two definitions of 'Minor Race' here. In-game,
politically, Minor Race means 'didn't discover Jump Drive on it's own';
here the term is used in-rules, meaning, truly, a minor race, with few
members and limited distribution. Note the word _mostly_.

Bwaps, for instance, are a "minor race' but clearly they've expanded far
beyond their original world. However, worlds with a _majority_ Bwap
population, I'll wager, are still within 10 parsecs of the Bwap home world.

Many of the Minor races showing up seem to be of the native sophont
category, perhaps found only on a single world, except for a few
exceptional members. Cf. Ael Yael...the vast majority of them only live
on their home world, and the few that are out Travelling feel a great
responsibility to represent all of them at home.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 07:06:29 PST
From: "Freelance Traveller" <freetrav@hotmail.com>
Subject: Freelance Traveller To Move

Due to reasons entirely outside our control, we are forced to abandon 
our primary site at http://www.tightbeam.com/FreelanceTraveller.  For 
the immediate future, please use our primary mirror, 
http://w3.execnet.com/jeffz/ as our primary site.  We will be arranging 
for an easy-to-remember URL in the near future.

Please rest assured that the change in URL will in no way adversely 
affect the quality of the material that we hope to bring you in the 
future.

- -- 
Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
Freelance Traveller
freetrav@hotmail.com


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 15:10:54 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Empress Wave?

At 03:10 PM 11/12/98 -0600, you wrote:

>PS  Did anyone notice the Sixth Frontier War coming up, with a 
>possible Darrian/Zhodani alliance?  Maybe it's motivated by the 
>coming Empress Wave, if that's still part of the overall plotline.  
>(In 1120, the Wave would be ~87 ly away, if it's moving at the speed 
>of light.  That's only 26.69 hexes away from the Imperial border.  
>Hmmmm.)


I've seen several references to this wave but I do not know what it is.  Can
anybody give me the low down on it?  Is it the 'it' that longbow two saw?

Charles L.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:11:03 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: re: sexually flavored content

>bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh) wrote
>
>> > >We don't need a chapter on "The Joy of Hiver Sex",
>> > >nor do we need diagrams in FF&S3 on the subject.
>
>> >But we _do_ need diagrams & design systems for half a dozen types of
>> >laser, plasma, fusion, PAW, "meson", gauss, etc. weapons?
>
>> Speaking only for myself, while I know little about tumbling bullet
>> wounds or particle accelerator weapons and hence need a rulebook to
>> explain them to me, my knowledge of the . . . squishier subject is at
>> least sufficient that I don't need diagrams.
>
>I am perfectly willing to believe that your knowledge of the squishier
>subject is adequate for Solomani charecters but is your knowledge really
>adequate in the case of non human, or non Solomani, charecters?
[snip Darmine Details]
>I do not see how I could present some of these cultural details without
>talking about sex.  Marc Miller would (apparently) prefer not to discuss
>them.  It is his decision and I fully understand his reasons.  This does
>not however mean that the rest of us can not discuss it.
>
>The CT writeups of the Hiver, the Aslan and (to a lesser extent) the
>K'Kree include discussions of the reproductive roles, and gender roles
>of these races.  These writeups do not however contain prurient or
>risque bits.  It is not unreasonable to expect future Traveller writers
>to be able to do similar writups for future races.

Having discussed the issue with previous publishers of Traveller (Ken
Whitman, specifically), I believe that we are getting rather out of hand.

Marc's opinion of the matter is simply that sex, or implications of sexual
content, should not be used to promote sales of a product or increase a
product's market appeal.

The supplements and adventures referred to do in fact describe sexual
behaviors of characters and aliens, as you indicate, and I firmly believe
that such content, where applicable, is in no way objectionable according
to Marc Miller.  In fact, I am willing to bet that some of those sections
were authored by him!

What is objectionable is selling games based on the cover art.  I have the
full set of "Macho Women with Guns" and, let me tell you, it wasn't the
rule system that made me pick it up, although it was the satirical nature
and absolute hilarity of the game that made me buy it.

Marc's opinion, which I respect (regardless of my own opinion on the
subject), is that such tactics are neither necessary nor appropriate for a
game with his name on it.  He is selling game content, not sex, and does
not wish any mistake to be made on that account.  It shows a significant
strength of character to take this stand over the objections of editors and
the success of games like Cyberpunk and others which do use such tactics.

Pete


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1137
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Friday, November 13 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1138



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Life Pursuits
Re: EARNED Social Standing
Re: T5 Discussion Draft
Re: greater range = greater chance of success?
Re: T5 Discussion Draft
GT Ship of the week
Re:Alternative definition of Minor Races
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1136
Re: GT Ship of the week
Re: Color Coding (was: Re: T5)
Darmine Reproduction...
Re: OPINIONS OF T4?
Re: T5 
re: sexually flavored content
Re: Minor Races 
Re: Empress Wave?
Re: T5 (Minor Races) 
Re: sexually flavored content
Re: sexually flavoured content
Re: sexually flavoured content
GMs Wanted!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:15:24 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Life Pursuits

I like the Life Pursuits idea.  Very much.

I'm curious about what you want the average skill-acquisition rate to be
in Chargen.  T4 was 1.25/year, IIRC?

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:14:35 -0600 (CST)
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: EARNED Social Standing

Jeff Zeitlin wrote:

>How do other refs handle Social Standing of this type (i.e. unrelated to
>nobility in any way)? How do you represent a person who
>was born to commoners and holds no noble title, yet exercises extreme
>influence through fame or wealth?

Some versions of the rules try to sidestep this by claiming that family
members of nobility that don't have titles in their own right also get
similar Social Standing.  In that case, Norris could have been Social-F
while his father and brother were alive, even if he wasn't a duke of
anything.  I've found that it's hard to talk players into going along
with this idea, even though it's got a lot of possibilities.  :)

On the other hand, there should be plenty of Soc-B and Soc-C people who
are locally important but not Imperial nobles; the "native" leaders in 
NOMADS OF THE WORLD-OCEAN come to mind.  

  -- Steve Bonneville

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 11:46:35 +0100
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <greimann@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: T5 Discussion Draft

>
>The IW book would be a "stand alone" entry point. Buy this book and start
>playing right away; you don't NEED anything else.
Hey Marc,
ths is exectly what i always wanted to see for Traveller: Rule light,
background heavy
sourcebooks. Using this approach you can even sell the books to the
Gurps-Crowd as they
can use these books with their systems as well. It increases the sales
potential of the 
single books. Just look at the SJG-way. I have never played a single
session of Gurps, 
but own about 10 sourcebooks, as i can use them in my other games as well,
and they 
are fun to read.
This is truly a good thing and the right way to go for Traveller.

Volker
- ---
Volker A. Greimann, greimann@geocities.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:25:35 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: greater range = greater chance of success?

SD Mooney wrote:
> 
>  Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com> wrote:
> 
> >Has this not been changed for T5? I thought that, in the drafts Marc's been
> >sending, you couldn't get spectacular success or failure less than a 3D task.
> 
> But the original question asked about T4 not T4.1/T5.....

Yes, you're right. I apologize for the confusion.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:31:38 -0600
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: Re: T5 Discussion Draft

>The IW book would be a "stand alone" entry point. Buy this book and start
>playing right away; you don't NEED anything else.


I see. So you *aren't* proposing a White Wolf-style format of 5-8 different
settings, each with it's own main rulesbook (containing the same system and
chargen rules)? Just a main rules book with a setting, and then setting
books which can be used to customize the main book?

Ciao,

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:38:28 -0500 (EST)
From: William Prankard <cmdrx@magicnet.net>
Subject: GT Ship of the week

As promised, here is my ship of the week:

1200ton Thor's Hammer Class 
Destroyer Escort - Strike Missile (Type DE-SM) [TL-12]

 Specifications:
 1200 Ton SL Hull (Hvy Compart.)   7000DR    +10Size Mod
 Radical Stealth    Radical Emissions Cloaking
 2x Triple 405Mj Laser Turrets        50ton Missile Bay
 Command Bridge                       Engineering
 450 Maneuver Units                   48 Jump Units
 360 Jump Fuel Units                  1 Sickbay
 10 Staterooms                        0 Low Berth
 3 Utility                            10 Fuel Proc.
 Spacedock: 10ton Launch (or Boarding Craft)
 Crew Compliment:
 Captain(1SR)                          Medic(1SR)
 Helm(.5SR)                            Navigation(.5SR)
 2x Sensor/Comm(1SR)                   7x Engineer(4SR)
 4x Gunner(2SR)

 Statistics:
 EMass:11410t                          LMass:11410t
 Cost: 477Mcr                          HP:75,000

 Performance:
 Accel: 4g                           Jump: 3
 AirSpeed: 7610mph                   Fuel Processing: 4.5hrs 

 Notes:
Built on a type of hull reminiscent of the old Kinunir class Colonial
Cruisers.
Affectionately called the "Ironsides", these ships are practically immune
to laser fire. This ship can ignore any hit from any turret laser, close
in on the target, and let fly up to 50 standard missiles in one salvo.
Space is available for 77 reloads for each missile rack. Missiles from
other ships are still a threat, so 2 triple laser turrets are available to
provide point defense.  These ships were designed to provide escort and
extra firepower to a destroyer, or added stopping power to any piracy
suppression.  Rumor has it that the IN routinely uses these ships in large
flotillas claiming they are armed with nuclear weapons as a "deterrent to
dissension" on lower tech worlds.  Indeed a low tech world would be
devastated by an attack from a fleet of these missile carriers.

\\  // Commander X
 \\//  CEO X-TEK Industries of Deneb, LIC
T E K  Military & Civilan Starship Contractor
 //\\  High Energy Weapons Research
//  \\ http://www.magicnet.net/~cmdrx/xtek/xtek.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:02:47 +0000
From: "Carlos Alos-Ferrer" <Carlos.Alos-Ferrer@univie.ac.at>
Subject: Re:Alternative definition of Minor Races

	"A race is minor if the only interstellar region where they 
constitute the majority of the population lies within 10 
parsecs of their homeworld."

	For instance, the Geonee are the second human race to have jump 
drive (long before terrans), and they had ventured in most of 
Massilia sector by the time the Vilani met them. However, their 8 
original worlds are the heart of the Geonee Cultural Region in 1120, 
and form the Second Geonee Confederation in Milieu 0 (and the Third 
in TNE).
	Of course this definition can be destroyed if someone insists that 
one world or two constitutes an "interstellar region," but I think 
that the meaning is clear enough.
	Anybody can give an example of a minor race (classical sense, do not 
discover Jump Drive on their own) not being minor with this 
definition?

	A minor problem can be that maybe Droyne are also minor with this 
definition... but they are scattered enough with whole Droyne worlds 
here and there to overcome this. I do not know, never payed a lot of 
attention to their distribution.
Carlos Alos-Ferrer
Geonee-Maker and BTE Ref
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/8772

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:02:48 -0800
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1136

- ------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 00:02:35 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: T5: Cards

In a message dated 11/12/98 5:20:27 PM Central Standard Time,
Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca writes:

<<
 I'd suggest making them the same size as CCG cards, so that organized
 types can get those plastic cardholder sheets and just load up their
 characters that way.

  >>

I have specified that most will be 2.5 x 3.5 inch cards, which is the CCG
card
size (same as Magic cards). Some cards are, however, 7 x 2.5 and some are
3.5
x 5 (various double sizes in order to carry enough information).

I'd like them to be round cornered and of sturdy stock, but they are not
Collectible in the Magic sense. They are useful and even tradable for some
people.

Marc

- ------------------------------
     Are you going to sell them seperately?  So that when I have turned
them into carboard oatmeal through overuse I can replace them.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:06:46 -0800
From: "Dave Strebe" <strebe@intergate.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: GT Ship of the week

OK can this be easily converted to T4?
- -----Original Message-----
From: William Prankard <cmdrx@magicnet.net>
To: GURPSnet-l@io.com <GURPSnet-l@io.com>
Cc: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 7:39 AM
Subject: GT Ship of the week


>As promised, here is my ship of the week:
>
>1200ton Thor's Hammer Class 
>Destroyer Escort - Strike Missile (Type DE-SM) [TL-12]
>
> Specifications:
> 1200 Ton SL Hull (Hvy Compart.)   7000DR    +10Size Mod
> Radical Stealth    Radical Emissions Cloaking
> 2x Triple 405Mj Laser Turrets        50ton Missile Bay
> Command Bridge                       Engineering
> 450 Maneuver Units                   48 Jump Units
> 360 Jump Fuel Units                  1 Sickbay
> 10 Staterooms                        0 Low Berth
> 3 Utility                            10 Fuel Proc.
> Spacedock: 10ton Launch (or Boarding Craft)
> Crew Compliment:
> Captain(1SR)                          Medic(1SR)
> Helm(.5SR)                            Navigation(.5SR)
> 2x Sensor/Comm(1SR)                   7x Engineer(4SR)
> 4x Gunner(2SR)
>
> Statistics:
> EMass:11410t                          LMass:11410t
> Cost: 477Mcr                          HP:75,000
>
> Performance:
> Accel: 4g                           Jump: 3
> AirSpeed: 7610mph                   Fuel Processing: 4.5hrs 
>
> Notes:
>Built on a type of hull reminiscent of the old Kinunir class Colonial
>Cruisers.
>Affectionately called the "Ironsides", these ships are practically immune
>to laser fire. This ship can ignore any hit from any turret laser, close
>in on the target, and let fly up to 50 standard missiles in one salvo.
>Space is available for 77 reloads for each missile rack. Missiles from
>other ships are still a threat, so 2 triple laser turrets are available to
>provide point defense.  These ships were designed to provide escort and
>extra firepower to a destroyer, or added stopping power to any piracy
>suppression.  Rumor has it that the IN routinely uses these ships in large
>flotillas claiming they are armed with nuclear weapons as a "deterrent to
>dissension" on lower tech worlds.  Indeed a low tech world would be
>devastated by an attack from a fleet of these missile carriers.
>
>\\  // Commander X
> \\//  CEO X-TEK Industries of Deneb, LIC
>T E K  Military & Civilan Starship Contractor
> //\\  High Energy Weapons Research
>//  \\ http://www.magicnet.net/~cmdrx/xtek/xtek.htm
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:08:22 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Color Coding (was: Re: T5)

Andy Long wrote:
> 
> <Snip>
> >
> > Not a bad idea.  But what color do we use for variant Milieu to use?
> >
> 
> Octarine. Infra-dig. Ultra Violent.
> 

 Arrrgh...I suppose this would be Supplement 42...
- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:33:01 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us>
Subject: Darmine Reproduction...

After reading the description on the Darmine, I found a few things 
that didn't quite settle well with me, and so I propose a few 
solutions of my own that settle my scientific nature while still 
keeping the race as it was intended.

Originally, the Darmine were taken to a world rich in heavy metals, 
which were causing poisoning within the Darmine settlement.  Many of 
the original "subjects" died due to the sharp increase.  In seeking a 
solution to the problem, the Ancients geneered the Darmine to be 
resistant.  (I prefer this to nanites; otherwise, nanites could be 
extracted from Darmine blood and tissue, and that would make them 
hunted and possibly extinct.)  Part of the biological process either 
lessened the fertility of the female or of both sexes), resulting 
in a drastic drop in reproductive capacity.  This is due to the 
inhibition of the release of certain sexually-related hormones, such 
as estrogen and/or testosterone.  (The thought of a hyper-developed 
immune system attacking other's genetic materials, resulting in 
rejection or destruction of the incoming sperm, has its place.  
However, it also results in several allergic responses, ranging from 
burning sensations through skin lesions (sp?) to (in the case of 
other severe allergic reactions, potentially applicable in the 
scenario described before) shock, coma and possibly death.  These 
reactions do not lend themselves to a sexually active culture, but 
rather a stoic culture where sex is only performed ritually for the 
continuation of the species, and the experience is feared, painful, 
and certainly never enjoyed.)

To counter the lowered productivity rate, the Ancients instituted a 
sexual regimen among their Darmine "subjects", with the purpose of 
increasing chances of exposure for fertility.  To further increase 
the chances for genetic viability, the regimen required the 
alteration of sexual partners.  This regimen functioned, and became 
part of the Darmine pattern of existence.  When the Ancients were 
destroyed in the Final War, the Darmine carried the practice forward 
as part of their culture, similar to the Vilani food tenders (I 
forgot the priesthood's name for the moment).  To do otherwise would 
result in the extinction of the species.

This reasoning also explains why the Darmine have fertility problems 
with inter-species relations, as well.  If the female cannot be made 
pregnant easily, then no human can do so readily, Darmine or 
otherwise.  An interesting aside is the effect on the Darmines' 
appearance.  Darmine women would tend to look under-developed or 
only moderately endowed next to, say, Dolly Pardon, as their 
secondary sexual characteristics would not be as developed.  In 
addition, the males would tend to look androgenous, with some slight 
feminine appearance to their features, due to the reduced amounts of 
testosterone during their sexual development.  Both sexes would tend 
to look younger than their true age after puberty.

Of course, their appearance and their culture make the Darmine 
excellent targets for a slavery ring catering to interstellar 
pedophilic humanophiles.  (Adventure idea...)

In Service,
Jason
============================
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer I
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375

Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 19:17:36 +0200 (EET)
From: Eppu Tuominen <eptitu@utu.fi>
Subject: Re: OPINIONS OF T4?

On Fri, 13 Nov 1998 Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com wrote:

 
> Is the game really as bad as this guy says it is?  If so, maybe I
> should give up my plans on picking up the game again.  What do
> you think?
> ****************
> I thought so, I played through the 3 previous incarnations, but T4 was
> terrible.  my advice.. go with GURPS Traveller (and remember unlike some
> game publishers SJG actualy pays their authors)
 
  I ´d have to agree on both counts. T4 had a workable basic idea, but
apart from that, the line was a massive botch. (T4 _did_ have some
mariginally useful material, but as a whole it just fails to hold
together.)
  GURPS Traveller on the other hand does a wonderful job of preserving the
Classic Traveller look and feel. If you can live with the GURPS rules
system (I like it, have used it with 2300AD and Traveller quite a while)
and liked CT, you're almost guaranteed to like this one.  

- -------------
Eppu Tuominen
eptitu@utu.fi
- -------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:44:38 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: T5 

> In a message dated 11/12/98 5:01:07 PM Central Standard Time,
> lhale@panlabs.com writes:
> 
> << In the list of proposed settings, you did not
>  provide one for the TNE setting, will there never be anything more do for
>  that setting?
>   >>
> 
> I didn't forget, I just didn't post a complete list. I would love to do a TNE
> Stand Alone Entry Point with a complete epic adventure running through it
> about the New Era.

So Virus is doing a Shroedenger's Cat?

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:02:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu>
Subject: re: sexually flavored content

On Fri, 13 Nov 1998, Peter Newman wrote:

> [Warning - This post contains frank discussion of human reproduction.]

[snip gratuitous narrative with hardly any role-playing usefulness :| ]

> libidos were unrelated.  However this year it occured to me that there
> was a way to tie these itmes together.  It made the Darmine (INHO) seem
> a bit more real, and a bit more controlled by their biology.

Same thing, isn't it?? :|

> However I am by no means a medical expert and would appreciate any
> comentary from those who have said medical knowledge. If said comments
> were from a naturally perverse source (Hi Kenji) all the better.  I have
> no interest in creating bits of detail that are obviously false to those
> knowledgable in the field.

Fortunately (for all concerned), I don't know nothin about birthin no
babies.

Kenji

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:06:02 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Minor Races 

> Someone said earlier, in a message that I accidently erased, that minor
> races are mostly within 10 parsecs of their homeworld.  I'd like to ask
> a simple question.  Why?

If a race is Minor, it wouldn'tve spread out much.  That's not to say that a 
member of a Minor Race couldn't be found everywhere, it's just 99% likely 
it'll be found within 10 parsecs of its homeworld.

> 	Minor Races didn't develop the Jump drive when they were discovered,
> but that wouldn't prevent them from either developing it after they were
> initially found or being given access to the technology by their
> discoverers.  With access to the technology, Minor Races could be just
> as good at starfaring as their Major Race counterparts.  Infact, I
> imagine thats one of the main things that gets Minor Races upset about
> their designation:  No matter how many accomplishments they achieve,
> they are forever dubbed 'Minor' races.

Two cases come to mind:  the Ilthara & the Virushi.  The Ilthara got Jump drive from a Reaver warlord and took over a bit more than a subsector in Reavers' Deep within 50 years.  Eventually, they got knocked back to the Stone Age by the Imperium in 268 when they became too much of a pain in the ass for their interstellar neighbors to want to deal with.

The Virushi are pastoral herbivores.  Their entire culture is so laid back, it makes the California surfer culture look intense.  But a Virushi was named to Strephon's staff as a surgeon, and they do get around a bit.

A lot of it is pure numbers, methinks.  If your Minor Race only has a million members, that means only 10,000 thereabouts are going to be run into over 10 parsecs away.  And Minor Races tend to not be as populous as Majors because they have no room to reproduce as much.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 20:10:27 +0200 (EET)
From: Eppu Tuominen <eptitu@utu.fi>
Subject: Re: Empress Wave?

On Fri, 13 Nov 1998, Charles Prevatte wrote:

 
> I've seen several references to this wave but I do not know what it is.  Can
> anybody give me the low down on it? 

 The Empress Wave appears to be a rather powerful (apparently isotropic)
wavefront of coherent EM radiation (probably in the microwave regime near
the frequency of CMB, just my opinion as an astronomer) acting in some
strange way as a carrier for a psionic signal. Both Strephon and the
Longbow relay telepath described the recieved psionic image as "human
female, dressed in black, standing before a city skyline" (Regency
Sourcebook p.83) Both Strephon and the telepath also described a feeling
of something momentuos just about to happen.
 Nobody knows what the EW is (it appears to enamate from the galactic
core) but the EM wavefront itself appears to be fairly harmless. However,
at least in the TNE Regency campaign, the psionic signal piggybacking the
wave seems to be responsible for a major brekdown of social order within
the Zhodani Consulate. 
 
> Is it the 'it' that longbow two saw?

 Almost certainly, yes.

 

- -------------
Eppu Tuominen
eptitu@utu.fi
- -------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:11:10 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: T5 (Minor Races) 

> In a message dated 11/12/98 1:01:02 PM Central Standard Time,
> dmckinne@itds.com writes:
> 
> << About Traveller having more minor races.. >>
> 
> I have put out a small number of Minor Race Generation rules drafts and I'm
> waiting for feedback.

I'm trying to work up a Minor for my PBEM, the Mar'Cha.  I can't figure out how to do Castes or figure out if a Caste is gender related or not.  The tables seem ok, I guess, just the instructions on them need to be a bit clearer.  

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:12:37 -0500
From: "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com>
Subject: Re: sexually flavored content

- ----------
> From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
> To: Traveller Mailing List <traveller@MPGN.COM>
> Subject: re: sexually flavored content
> Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 4:53 AM
> 
> bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh) wrote
> 
> 
> For instance the Darmine minor human race, as designed by me, have quite
> high sexual drives.  However I have never mentioned the fact that the
> reason the Darmine are so promiscuous is that the Ancients made them
> that way.  The Darmine homeworld has a very high metal content and the
> Ancients were somewhat annoyed when their protohuman servants kept dying
> do to heavy metal poisoning.  So they put active measures [nanites,
> genetic engineering, or both] into the Darmine which attack and destroy
(lot's CUT OUT)
The was nothing in there that is not consumable by all. You can talk about
sex. You can't be graphic about the sex is how I read cadveat #5. I 
believe personally that Marc doesn't want the Mature Audenices Only
"Sticker on the books. Which if I can say one more time is a good Idea. Sex
should never be a theme of a book or adventure. if it was it wouldn't be
sci fi and whould be liesure suit larry in outer space. As a hook eg
escapeing a boyfriend or lover or explaining reporductive behavoir in a
race... It is ok and legal. But it seems to me that he doesn't want to read
about the adventure when Debbie does Deneb.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:24:12 -0500
From: "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com>
Subject: Re: sexually flavoured content

Ok... this is flame bait..... BUT I'll bite...


- ----------
> From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: sexually flavoured content
> Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 7:29 PM
> 
> 
> >From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
> >Subject: re: sexually flavored content
> >
> >I don't mind not having gratuitous sex in the work, but I do find banning
> >the whole issue of relationships a problem. It removes a lot of potential
> >plotlines.
> 
> Look, Marc Miller is a Responsible Game Designer.
> 
Yep responsible for writing games that most of us will never play but buy
just to keep the game alive. That's not responsible he sould make the game
a game that the players and fans (US) want to play.

> One of the realities of the gaming 'industry' is the fact that the Right
> has a fair amount of clout, and it gets really uncomfortable about
> sexuality, and especially about alternative sexualities.
> 
4 words : Macho Women with Guns.

> Putting overt sexual material in Traveller is an easy way to cop unwanted
> heat.
> 
Heat is good for game sales D&D get's most of it's sales because of it's
satan worshipper image.  and the fact that you look like a bad boy to play

> Of course, that is no reason the Sayat, or Samuel Delaney's s/m SF, or even
> a post-pubescent Ditzammer Spofulam (1), or even something as sexually
> loaded as, say, Dumas' Three Musketeers (2) cant turn up in your campaign,
> it's just that the political realities are that it cant be seen to be
> officially supported.
> 
> And thats cool.
Stupid Q: why would one buy or even write such trash? I can pick up a copy
of Victoria's Secret easier, or better yet buy a playboy.

> 
> Marc cant stop the *rest* of us speculating on the effect of, say, bonking
> in the main tunnel of a charged but not fired spinal particle accelerator.
> With magnetically active bo-mo jewelry that is. Can a physicist advise me
> how hot 1 gram of metal would get 10 m from a 10 * 10^8 Tesla field when
> moved at 1 m/s ?
I'd never thought of having sex there my charaters usually have staterooms.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:27:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Camino <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: sexually flavoured content

Ian Whitchurch wrote:
> One of the realities of the gaming 'industry' 
> is the fact that the Right has a fair amount
> of clout, and it gets really uncomfortable about
> sexuality, and especially about alternative 
> sexualities.

===========
One of the realities of LIFE is that there are different levels of
maturity in your audience.  It is not political pressure, but
perception of taste, to which game designers design.  If Marc wants
his games to preserve the perception of "good" taste that they have
consistantly maintained, that is entirely his choice.  I think that
the success of SJG is proof enough that there is ample market for
games with varying levels of gratuitous [insert your favorite here]. 
I haven't seen any demonstrators marching on the sidewalks in front of
even one hobby or comics store.  Not even in Va. Beach, Pat
Robertson's back yard.  Or here in puritanical New England.  I doubt
that the "Right" would waste their "clout" by waging a holy war
against a foppish character in a T:TNE adventure.  Or a reference to
naked beam dancers on Ruie.  Or even a lesbian Aslan, as much as the
very idea is a slap in the face to C.S.Lewis.  The fact that the
published Traveller material has maintained (IMO) a tasteful balance,
where many have not, keeps me coming back.





==
- ------------------------><>------------------------
IMTU 0601 tc++ tm !tn t4+ ?tg ru++ 3i pi ta+ he+ 
=>UTUP 0309 0-400A04C-5-8-2<=

You might be a Traveller fanatic if... your resume includes a UPP and skill listing!
http://come.to/traveller

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:27:01 -0500
From: Tal Meta <talmeta@bellatlantic.net>
Subject: GMs Wanted!

Greetings.

I'm the RPG coordinator for MonCon '99, which will be held on March
19-21st 1999 at the Holiday Inn in Tinton Falls NJ. In that capacity,
I'm looking for GMs (and players, too) for RPG events at the convention. 

Our pre-registration book will be going to the printers soon, and many
of our tables are already filled, so if you are interested in GMing an
event, the time to sign up is now! 

If you're in the NJ/NY/PA/MD area, and think you'd be interested in
running such an event, please contact me -OFF-LIST- and I'll give you
more specifics.

Thanx for your time...

- -- 
talmeta@bellatlantic.net - Heretic & Dilettante
ICQ - 12594453
AIM - talmeta1
Homepage - <http://members.xoom.com/talmeta>

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1138
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Friday, November 13 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1139



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re:Alternative definition of Minor Races
GT Ship of the week
Re: Darmine
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1135
Sarmine background (Also SPOILER for Echos of Honour by David Weber)
Re: [TWG] Re: T5
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1135
Re: sexually flavoured content
Re: Empress Wave
Darmine Reproduction...
Darmine minor human race
Darmine minor human race
Repost
MIL SF Reading List

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 04:46:51 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re:Alternative definition of Minor Races

> From: Carlos Alos-Ferrer <Carlos.Alos-Ferrer@univie.ac.at>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re:Alternative definition of Minor Races
> Date: Saturday, 14 November 1998 3:02
> 
> 	"A race is minor if the only interstellar region where they 
> constitute the majority of the population lies within 10 
> parsecs of their homeworld."
> 
> 	For instance, the Geonee are the second human race to have jump 
> drive (long before terrans), and they had ventured in most of 
> Massilia sector by the time the Vilani met them. However, their 8 
> original worlds are the heart of the Geonee Cultural Region in 1120, 
> and form the Second Geonee Confederation in Milieu 0 (and the Third 
> in TNE).

The Geonee are considered minor because they "cheated" by using Ancients
relics, aren't they?  Presumably there's an ideological reason too - they
were the first other "major" race the Vilani ran into, and probably scared
the hell out of them.  As a result orthodox Vilani scholars tended to
downplay their achievements, blah blah blah.
 
> 	Anybody can give an example of a minor race (classical sense, do not 
> discover Jump Drive on their own) not being minor with this 
> definition?
> 

Ithklur??  I don't have a map around, but their client state was fairly
big.

> 	A minor problem can be that maybe Droyne are also minor with this 
> definition... but they are scattered enough with whole Droyne worlds 
> here and there to overcome this. I do not know, never payed a lot of 
> attention to their distribution.

I suspect the Droyne's status is contested.  The whole major/minor thing is
deeply political, complete with bucketloads of racist connotations.  The
Droyne aren't currently important, therefore they are minor...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:43:40 -0500
From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
Subject: GT Ship of the week

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:38:28 -0500 (EST)
From: William Prankard <cmdrx@magicnet.net>
Subject: GT Ship of the week
As promised, here is my ship of the week:
1200ton Thor's Hammer Class
Destroyer Escort - Strike Missile (Type DE-SM) [TL-12]
************
the standard format from GT would be easier to read.


 Specifications:
 1200 Ton SL Hull (Hvy Compart.)   7000DR    +10Size Mod
 Radical Stealth    Radical Emissions Cloaking
*********
if you cut these back to basic you could save 67.5MCr on these....but it
could be useful in making raids on enemy worlds.


 2x Triple 405Mj Laser Turrets        50ton Missile Bay
 Command Bridge                       Engineering
***********
if it does use nukes you may wish to harden the bridge.


 450 Maneuver Units                   48 Jump Units
 360 Jump Fuel Units                  1 Sickbay
 10 Staterooms                        0 Low Berth
 3 Utility                            10 Fuel Proc.
 Spacedock: 10ton Launch (or Boarding Craft)
 Crew Compliment:
 Captain(1SR)                          Medic(1SR)
 Helm(.5SR)                            Navigation(.5SR)
 2x Sensor/Comm(1SR)                   7x Engineer(4SR)
 4x Gunner(2SR)

you could get by with 6 engineers here, but an extra one makes for good
redundancy.

Overall, a nice design. a little weak on defense...the eggshells with
hammer theory of design I see.

one thing, it does not seem to be usefule for escort duty, so perhaps
calling it somthing other than DE would be good.  perhaps a strike frigate
(FFS)?

I am working up some alternate rules for escorting...I would like for ships
to be able to shoot down missiles coming at the other ship in point
defense....

 a -2 to piloting for all ships involved in a formation,
ships can only cover 120 degrees  for another ship.
point defense for another ship starts at -2 to skill

what do you think?
- ------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 19:51:20 +0000
From: "Carlos Alos-Ferrer" <Carlos.Alos-Ferrer@univie.ac.at>
Subject: Re: Darmine

>Of course, their appearance and their culture make the Darmine 
>excellent targets for a slavery ring catering to interstellar 
>pedophilic humanophiles.  (Adventure idea...)

>In Service,
>Jason

	Nice idea. Peter is roleplaying a female Darmine in my game... 
thanks! ;->


Carlos Alos-Ferrer
Geonee-Maker and BTE Ref
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/8772

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:59:52 -0500
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1135

> 
> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 00:00:11 EST
> From: CardSharks@aol.com
> Subject: Re: T5
> 
> In a message dated 11/12/98 5:01:07 PM Central Standard Time,
> lhale@panlabs.com writes:
> 
> << In the list of proposed settings, you did not
>  provide one for the TNE setting, will there never be anything more do
for
>  that setting?
>   >>
> 
> I didn't forget, I just didn't post a complete list. I would love to do a
TNE
> Stand Alone Entry Point with a complete epic adventure running through it
> about the New Era.
> 
> Marc

I am very pleased to see this for the following reasons; first, I do think
the TNE setting had some basically good ideas and oppurtunities for
adventure. Secondly, it shows that the events are still part of the
official Canon (even though some will undoubtably continue to be in denial
about this), and thirdly it shows that the players of TNE are not being
abandoned totally.

However, I do feel that the 'canon' needs adjustment where TNE is
concerned, in the following areas.

1.) The Collapse is not long enough. 70 years is not enough time, IMO, for
the changes that were portrayed as taking place, the rampant technophobia
could be explained, but the worlds where the Imperium is all but forgotten,
religions have developed around technology etc. just do not make sense to
me in a 70 year time frame. I think a "Short Nap" of say 200-300 years
would be more appropriate.

2.) Contrary to it's name and previous portrayal, it should be established
that "Virus" is not really a computer virus. It's a sentient form of
electronic life which lives in silicon and computer chips, and can travel
between them, rewrite circuitry, etc. Perhaps people can accept it better
as "life, but not as we know it" than as sentient software.

3.) Either allow the ships of the Reformation Coalition to use thruster
plates, or establish a plausible reason why they cannot make them. perhaps
t-plates require a special element that the Old Expanses sector happens to
be very poor in, so they use HEPLar in newer ships and only have t-plates
in relics. This gives incentive to salvage old Imperial ships, allows the
use of HEPLar, which is interesting from a tactical standpoint, without
"de-canonizing" thruster plates. It also, frankly, establishes a clear
technological superiority for the Regency :)

I hope consideration would be given to contacting Dave Nilsen about this;
as he was one of the people who came up with the TNE idea, he seems like a
good choice to write such a book when the time comes.

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 19:30:34 -0000
From: "Paul James" <paul@turing.tcp.co.uk>
Subject: Sarmine background (Also SPOILER for Echos of Honour by David Weber)

Some space just to make sure I don't spoil a book that was only due out last
month
























I don't know if you are aware or not but one of the central planets in the
Honor Harrington novels is the planet Grayson a planet with a high
concentration of metals. It also has a very high ratio of female to male
births. You find out in Echos of Honor that this was due to some genetic
engineering by the original settlers which had an unforseen consequence.

Paul

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 14:39:23 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: [TWG] Re: T5

Andrew Boulton wrote:

> In-Reply-To: <3649E6D1.4601E421@portcaddo.com>
>
> Steve,
>
> > Aliens are always welcome, but what about more variations on humaniti?
> > Especially for non-standard worlds. It seems to me that some stuff might
> > creep into or out of the DNA to create superficial changes.  I'm thinking
> > of things like skin-color, hair, vision, breathing, hearing, etc.
>
> Funny noses, nobbly foreheads, pointy ears...

I wasn't thinking of things like that.  But minor mutations that are already
present in humaniti that might become more prevalent with a long-term
exposure to non-standard planets.  After all, we're only talking about a period

of 3000 years - not a lot in evolutionary time (unless you wan't to talk about
seeded humaniti groups).  Also, there's might be some 'garbage' when Vilani
and Solomani mix after so much separation.

Like I said, I'm thinking of minor ones that would impact game-play in only
minor
ways.  Like the tendency of Syleans to albinism, and Darmine green-hair.
In the Real World (tm), we have such things as the Mexican 'wolf' boys, who
are totally covered in a thick-fur, but are otherwise normal, the cold-water
swimmer who has radically adapted her body to tolerances beyond human norm.

A short list of things I'm thinking of:

hair (both type and quantity),

oxygen-capacity (effects endurance),

gravity effects (would affect not only strength and height/weight, but
conceiveably dexterity as well),

melanin production (not just normal skin color but effect of radiation,
i.e., tanning might be a different color)

diet,

body fat/energy storage (just thinking out loud here: water worlds might
have populations that retain their internal heat better for survival when
in the water, or layers of fat or for buoyancy; cold worlds promote fat
retention for body warmth).

Earlier, I mentioned vision and hearing changes, but after thinking
about it, it doesn't make any sense for these to change in any
appreciable way.

None of these type of changes need to effect game play at all.
But, IMHO, they would add some flavor, especially to the ubiquitous
starport bar brawl.

Example:
GM: Ok, you've entered the Lone Star in Star Town and sit at the only
open table, which is between a table of very-hairy faced men in starship
flight suits on one side and a table of deeply tanned men with webbed hands
on the other.
    As the waitron approaches your table, you hear one of the
tanned men say: "I think someone in here needs a shave."
   "Go jump in a frozen lake, fishboy."
   "Hey, I think I hear a Vargr yelping?"
The waitron says:  "Oh don't mind them, the [insert name of water world here]
and the [insert name of home world for very hairy men here] are always yelling
like that but they're not violent. What'll it be?"

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 14:30:27 -0500
From: Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1135

Allen Shock wrote:
> 
> >

> > Marc
> <snip> 
> 2.) Contrary to it's name and previous portrayal, it should be established
> that "Virus" is not really a computer virus. It's a sentient form of
> electronic life which lives in silicon and computer chips, and can travel
> between them, rewrite circuitry, etc. Perhaps people can accept it better
> as "life, but not as we know it" than as sentient software.
> <snip>
> Allen

So was "virus" wiped out?  Does that mean that there was genocide [or
chipicide]?  Do those "creatures" still exist someplace?  

Greg

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 14:43:34 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: sexually flavoured content

>Ok... this is flame bait..... BUT I'll bite...

Seems to me that you're the one composing flame bait...and I seem to be
biting.  That's ok, I haven't gotten this worked up in a while.

>> >I don't mind not having gratuitous sex in the work, but I do find
>banning
>> >the whole issue of relationships a problem. It removes a lot of
>potential
>> >plotlines.
>>
>> Look, Marc Miller is a Responsible Game Designer.
>>
>Yep responsible for writing games that most of us will never play but buy
>just to keep the game alive. That's not responsible he sould make the game
>a game that the players and fans (US) want to play.

You know, I'm sure that Marc, writing email from his Barbados Mansion,
sipping margaritas with movie stars and such, is terribly interested in
getting your hard earned $20 to increase his stock holdings in Intel.

**Get a Clue!**  These guys aren't writing this stuff for money!  Almost no
one is making as much money selling RPGs these days as they could selling
insurance!

No no, you're right,  I only buy games for the babes in transparent spandex
smoking big cigars* on the cover of the books.  I would never want to play
a game where the content is more important than the art (oops, T4 aside -
but that was the publisher's fault, not the writers').

[snip]
>> Putting overt sexual material in Traveller is an easy way to cop unwanted
>> heat.
>>
>Heat is good for game sales D&D get's most of it's sales because of it's
>satan worshipper image.  and the fact that you look like a bad boy to play

Yeah, AD&D is just doing so well these days.  TSR is a great stock to inv-
oh, that's right, TSR was bought wasn't it?  By a CCG company was't it?

Ian is a bit off the mark, so to speak.  I don't think Marc cares about
what "the Right" thinks, nor, to a large extent, what the press would make
a fuss over.  He has his convictions and his beliefs, and that is what
leads to this policy.

>> Of course, that is no reason the Sayat, or Samuel Delaney's s/m SF, or
>even
>> a post-pubescent Ditzammer Spofulam (1), or even something as sexually
>> loaded as, say, Dumas' Three Musketeers (2) cant turn up in your
>campaign,
>> it's just that the political realities are that it cant be seen to be
>> officially supported.
>>
>> And thats cool.
>Stupid Q: why would one buy or even write such trash? I can pick up a copy
>of Victoria's Secret easier, or better yet buy a playboy.

[Who is this guy?]  Yeah...the plot in playboy is really game-adaptable eh?
Just the other day there was a character who answered "I want to be a
Veterinarian because I love children.", just like Miss November in her bio.

The question is not what you should beat your meat with, but whether and
how sex belongs in the Gaming Session.  Ian's point is that, although there
may not be explicit rules for sex in the rulebook (I can't believe I'm even
suggesting there might be!) you can find and play all the sexually explicit
campaigns you wish in the privacy of your own game room.

>> Marc cant stop the *rest* of us speculating on the effect of...
>I'd never thought of having sex there my charaters usually have staterooms.

How unimaginative.  You are a Role Playing Gamer aren't you?  Perhaps you
should get out more.

*The reference is to a real character, in a Traveller campaign from long
ago, named Shiela-X.  Sex was completely inextricable from that campaign,
as it is from my current one, thanks to Yatshana and her 'not
inconsequential' breasts.

Pete


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:49:44 -0700
From: Eric Holmes <holmes_eric_t@lanl.gov>
Subject: Re: Empress Wave

Discussed in Traveller-digest     Friday, November 13 1998     Vol 1998 :
No 1138

The Empress Wave

What is it?  Where can I find more information about it?  I do not have any
TNE references.

Thanks 

Eric

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:01:27 -0800
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Darmine Reproduction...

- ------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:33:01 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us>
Subject: Darmine Reproduction...

*SNIP*
Originally, the Darmine were taken to a world rich in heavy metals,
which were causing poisoning within the Darmine settlement.  Many of
the original "subjects" died due to the sharp increase.  In seeking a
solution to the problem, the Ancients geneered the Darmine to be
resistant.  (I prefer this to nanites; otherwise, nanites could be
extracted from Darmine blood and tissue, and that would make them
hunted and possibly extinct.)
******************
     I like and agree with this, kind of reminds one of the Grayland people
from the 'Honor Harrington' series by D. Webber.



 Part of the biological process either lessened the fertility of the female
or of both sexes), resulting in a drastic drop in reproductive capacity.
This is due to the inhibition of the release of certain sexually-related
hormones, such as estrogen and/or testosterone.  (The thought of a
hyper-developed immune system attacking other's genetic materials,
resulting in rejection or destruction of the incoming sperm, has its place.
However, it also results in several allergic responses, ranging from
burning sensations through skin lesions (sp?) to (in the case of
other severe allergic reactions, potentially applicable in the
scenario described before) shock, coma and possibly death.  These
reactions do not lend themselves to a sexually active culture, but
rather a stoic culture where sex is only performed ritually for the
continuation of the species, and the experience is feared, painful,
and certainly never enjoyed.)
*********************
     Wrong you are bucko.  There are several ways this could be a reality
without any of the problems you have noted.  My Aunt and Uncle have opposed
blood types, so that when she becomes pregnant the doctors need to monitor
the whole pregnancy and give her special medication to keep her immune
system from aborting the baby.  If the dosage is wrong or they don't give
her a shot when they should her system rejects the baby because of the
blood type problems.



To counter the lowered productivity rate, the Ancients instituted a
sexual regimen among their Darmine "subjects", with the purpose of
increasing chances of exposure for fertility.  To further increase
the chances for genetic viability, the regimen required the
alteration of sexual partners.  This regimen functioned, and became
part of the Darmine pattern of existence.  When the Ancients were
destroyed in the Final War, the Darmine carried the practice forward
as part of their culture, similar to the Vilani food tenders (I
forgot the priesthood's name for the moment).  To do otherwise would
result in the extinction of the species.

This reasoning also explains why the Darmine have fertility problems
with inter-species relations, as well.  If the female cannot be made
pregnant easily, then no human can do so readily, Darmine or
otherwise.  An interesting aside is the effect on the Darmines'
appearance.  Darmine women would tend to look under-developed or
only moderately endowed next to, say, Dolly Pardon, as their
secondary sexual characteristics would not be as developed.  In
addition, the males would tend to look androgenous, with some slight
feminine appearance to their features, due to the reduced amounts of
testosterone during their sexual development.  Both sexes would tend
to look younger than their true age after puberty.

Of course, their appearance and their culture make the Darmine
excellent targets for a slavery ring catering to interstellar
pedophilic humanophiles.  (Adventure idea...)

In Service,
Jason
============================
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer I
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375

Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us
**********************
     Other than the noted objections I like what you have written alot.
What is the average tech level of the Darmine worlds?  If it is say below
TL-7 that could explain why they still have a birthrate problem.  Any
culture with advanced medical facilities (say TL-12+) could easily assist a
couple, either one or both of whom was Darmine, to concieve anytime they
wanted to.  Lets hear it for advanced medical treatments.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:11:47 -0800
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Darmine minor human race

- ------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 00:53:34 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: re: sexually flavored content

bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh) wrote

> > >We don't need a chapter on "The Joy of Hiver Sex",
> > >nor do we need diagrams in FF&S3 on the subject.

> >But we _do_ need diagrams & design systems for half a dozen types of
> >laser, plasma, fusion, PAW, "meson", gauss, etc. weapons?

> Speaking only for myself, while I know little about tumbling bullet
> wounds or particle accelerator weapons and hence need a rulebook to
> explain them to me, my knowledge of the . . . squishier subject is at
> least sufficient that I don't need diagrams.

I am perfectly willing to believe that your knowledge of the squishier
subject is adequate for Solomani charecters but is your knowledge really
adequate in the case of non human, or non Solomani, charecters?  If so I
think you could nake some money talking to some people at The Weekly
World News....

For instance the Darmine minor human race, as designed by me, have quite
high sexual drives.  However I have never mentioned the fact that the
reason the Darmine are so promiscuous is that the Ancients made them
that way.  The Darmine homeworld has a very high metal content and the
Ancients were somewhat annoyed when their protohuman servants kept dying
do to heavy metal poisoning.  So they put active measures [nanites,
genetic engineering, or both] into the Darmine which attack and destroy
foreign bodies (especially heavy metals).  However the Ancients soon
discovered that this included Sperm and embryos.  Therefore the Darmine
had a very low fertility rate.  Rather than fix this problem by
modifying the protective measures to not seek out reproductive materials
the (rather sloppy) technician in charge merely increased the libido of
the Darmine.  By engaging in sexual congress with about ten or fifteen
times the frequency that members of most other human races do the
Darmine have achieved a reproductive rate almost as good as that of most
other versions of humanity.  Furthermore the active protective measures
in the Darmines cells have an ability to learn.  Therefore Darmine women
are much less likely to be able to have a second child from the same
Darmine man.  This has resulted in the Darmine culture being poly with
group marriages the rule.  The high libido has also resulted in
bisexuality being the prevalant sexual Darmine sexual orientation as few
Darmine are willing to pass up sex based on details such as their
partners gender.

The typical Darmine will not even know who their genetic father was and
in fact will be _quite_ insulted [IE a Determination check not to be
upset or even flip out] if anyone asks because this obviously (to a
Darmine) implies that 1) Their mother was so inadequate that she had
sexual relations with one male partner during the period the charecter
was conceived 2) The Darmine is some kind of pervert who would, for some
strange reason, want to know who their father was enough to have a
genetic test done or 3) The charecter is so sickly that they needed to
know for medical reasons.

[The Darmine incest taboo is based on whom the charecter grew up with
and their maternal relatives rather than who their unknown paternal
relatives.  Fortunately the Darmine gene pool is fairly small,
homogeneous, and with very few bad traits in it so this does not cause
reproductive problems if Darmine happen to mate with a paternal
relative.]

As a result it is fairly rare for Darmine Imperial Nobles to inherit
their titles patrilineally.  Male Darmine Imperial Nobles may designate
a heir to their titles.

I do not see how I could present some of these cultural details without
talking about sex.  Marc Miller would (apparently) prefer not to discuss
them.  It is his decision and I fully understand his reasons.  This does
not however mean that the rest of us can not discuss it.

The CT writeups of the Hiver, the Aslan and (to a lesser extent) the
K'Kree include discussions of the reproductive roles, and gender roles
of these races.  These writeups do not however contain prurient or
risque bits.  It is not unreasonable to expect future Traveller writers
to be able to do similar writups for future races.

- ------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:12:41 -0800
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Darmine minor human race

- ------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 00:53:34 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: re: sexually flavored content

bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh) wrote

> > >We don't need a chapter on "The Joy of Hiver Sex",
> > >nor do we need diagrams in FF&S3 on the subject.

> >But we _do_ need diagrams & design systems for half a dozen types of
> >laser, plasma, fusion, PAW, "meson", gauss, etc. weapons?

> Speaking only for myself, while I know little about tumbling bullet
> wounds or particle accelerator weapons and hence need a rulebook to
> explain them to me, my knowledge of the . . . squishier subject is at
> least sufficient that I don't need diagrams.

I am perfectly willing to believe that your knowledge of the squishier
subject is adequate for Solomani charecters but is your knowledge really
adequate in the case of non human, or non Solomani, charecters?  If so I
think you could nake some money talking to some people at The Weekly
World News....

For instance the Darmine minor human race, as designed by me, have quite
high sexual drives.  However I have never mentioned the fact that the
reason the Darmine are so promiscuous is that the Ancients made them
that way.  The Darmine homeworld has a very high metal content and the
Ancients were somewhat annoyed when their protohuman servants kept dying
do to heavy metal poisoning.  So they put active measures [nanites,
genetic engineering, or both] into the Darmine which attack and destroy
foreign bodies (especially heavy metals).  However the Ancients soon
discovered that this included Sperm and embryos.  Therefore the Darmine
had a very low fertility rate.  Rather than fix this problem by
modifying the protective measures to not seek out reproductive materials
the (rather sloppy) technician in charge merely increased the libido of
the Darmine.  By engaging in sexual congress with about ten or fifteen
times the frequency that members of most other human races do the
Darmine have achieved a reproductive rate almost as good as that of most
other versions of humanity.  Furthermore the active protective measures
in the Darmines cells have an ability to learn.  Therefore Darmine women
are much less likely to be able to have a second child from the same
Darmine man.  This has resulted in the Darmine culture being poly with
group marriages the rule.  The high libido has also resulted in
bisexuality being the prevalant sexual Darmine sexual orientation as few
Darmine are willing to pass up sex based on details such as their
partners gender.

The typical Darmine will not even know who their genetic father was and
in fact will be _quite_ insulted [IE a Determination check not to be
upset or even flip out] if anyone asks because this obviously (to a
Darmine) implies that 1) Their mother was so inadequate that she had
sexual relations with one male partner during the period the charecter
was conceived 2) The Darmine is some kind of pervert who would, for some
strange reason, want to know who their father was enough to have a
genetic test done or 3) The charecter is so sickly that they needed to
know for medical reasons.

[The Darmine incest taboo is based on whom the charecter grew up with
and their maternal relatives rather than who their unknown paternal
relatives.  Fortunately the Darmine gene pool is fairly small,
homogeneous, and with very few bad traits in it so this does not cause
reproductive problems if Darmine happen to mate with a paternal
relative.]

As a result it is fairly rare for Darmine Imperial Nobles to inherit
their titles patrilineally.  Male Darmine Imperial Nobles may designate
a heir to their titles.

I do not see how I could present some of these cultural details without
talking about sex.  Marc Miller would (apparently) prefer not to discuss
them.  It is his decision and I fully understand his reasons.  This does
not however mean that the rest of us can not discuss it.

The CT writeups of the Hiver, the Aslan and (to a lesser extent) the
K'Kree include discussions of the reproductive roles, and gender roles
of these races.  These writeups do not however contain prurient or
risque bits.  It is not unreasonable to expect future Traveller writers
to be able to do similar writups for future races.

- ------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:25:47 -0800
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Repost

     Sorry, the repost of the Darmine minor human race was totally
unitentional.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 14:27:53 -0600
From: Loren Wiseman <lkw@io.com>
Subject: MIL SF Reading List

Gentlebeings,

There may be room in Star Mercs for a suggested reading list of military
oriented SF books. I have my faves (Falkenburg, Hammer, et alia), but I am
not completely caught up with my reading list for the last decade, so I
will need a little help.

Please send me your top 10 titles (series are OK) with author's names and
1-2 sentences explaining how relevant to Traveller they are.

Send them to lkw@io.com and cc: gdwgames@aol.com

Thanks!






Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Editor
     Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     SJ Games
     LKW@IO.COM
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1139
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Friday, November 13 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1140



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: re:Ship Design question
Re: Ship's Laundry (was: What shall we have for dinner?)
Re: Opinion of T4
Re: sexually flavoured content
Rh Factors and Hyper-Immune systems...
Re: Spending the IISS' budget 
UTUP v2.0 (long)
Re: EARNED Social Standing
Re-Contact
re: Rail Guns
Re: Incendental effects of damage
[WWW][Zine] Freelance Traveller has a new, permanent URL
Damge Rules (was: sexually flavored content)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 18:52:35 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: re:Ship Design question

Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior) wrote:

>If you are using QSDS: The Software (TM) then the final price does include
>the discount. The spreadsheet total shows the price before the discount.
>(Guess I'll have to add some more explanatory labels.)

<PLUG>
Well, Rob, unsuprisingly I was using QSDS : The Software (TM), as written
by the excellent Rob Prior and available through BITS in Europe and from
Rob directly in North America. But I guess you knew that ;-)


Problem is, QSDS is so simple it took all of 5 minutes to design a ship,
and I didn't look at whether the discount is there.

 QSDS : The Software (TM) - Mac Owners, you know it makes sense. ;-)
</PLUG>

Dom

PS seriously, it's a great design aid if you're a ref in a hurray -
available from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/

Updated version will be loaded this weekedn.

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 18:55:11 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Ship's Laundry (was: What shall we have for dinner?)

"Christopher B. Thrash" <thrash@io.com> wrote:

>In the real world, one of the first things you do on making portcall is
>send your laundry out to be washed; the stewards are responsible for it.

IMTU the stewards are responsible for the commercial success of a ship,
like the cargomaster in Andre Norton's Sci-Fi. They negotiate and buy cargo
too, plus they handle it.

ISTR that Marc was considering broadening the steward skill in T5 to
include this. It gives them something else to do.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 19:19:54 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Opinion of T4

sgkramer@juno.com (Samuel G. Kramer) wrote:
>>Subject: OPINIONS OF T4?
>>
>>Hello,
>>
>>I am considering purchasing T4, mostly based on the positive
>>experience I had with Classic Traveller quite a few years ago in
>>college.  If I am to dive into Traveller again, I would like to
>>go with the current version (besides, I have no idea where my old
>>traveller stuff is).
>>
>>I have been surfing the internet looking for Traveller info
>>(there is plenty) and came across a scathing review of T4, a.k.a.
>>"Marc Miller's Traveller".  I have listed the review below.
>>
>>Is the game really as bad as this guy says it is?  If so, maybe I
>>should give up my plans on picking up the game again.  What do
>>you think?

Sam - the T4 rules are badly laid out but good. I would recommend getting a
copy, plus the errata. As you have internet access, also go to the Missouri
Archive that Joe Heck runs and download RPSCSv0.9 (Roleplaying Starship
Combat System) and QSDSv1.5. (The corrected simple ship construction rules).
The email FarFuture@aol.com and ask if you can have a draft of the playtest
for T4.1 / T5. This has a bugfixed task system. Alternatively, you could
just run it a level higher.

I'd give the rules a C.

The following are worth considering -

M0 Campaign (Hardback) -  Sourcebook, 32 extra pages of background and
adventures over First Survey and Milieu 0. A

FFS2 B with the errata if you like build ships and weapons, else E.

Central Supply Catalogue - B

Emperors Arsenal B

M0(softback) B

First Survey E

Pocket Empires A-

Psionic Institutes A

Naval Architect's Manual B-

Imperial Squadrons B

Missions of State C- (without Joe Walsh and Martin Dougherty's work it'd be
a D)

The Annililik Run U  (worst ever Traveller supplement)

TLWH (BITS) C+

Starships C (only because SSDS is in it and it makes a good mousemat)

Hope this helps.

Allegedly Emperor's Arsenal is poor (no TLs for example). Anomalies has a
few technical quirks

Dom


- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:15:24 EST
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: sexually flavoured content

In a message dated 11/13/98 11:44:27 AM Pacific Standard Time,
pbrenton@mit.edu writes:

<< The question is not what you should beat your meat with, but whether and
 how sex belongs in the Gaming Session.  Ian's point is that, although there
 may not be explicit rules for sex in the rulebook (I can't believe I'm even
 suggesting there might be!) you can find and play all the sexually explicit
 campaigns you wish in the privacy of your own game room.
  >>

	This is a very good point...if you, as a GM or player, desire a sexually-
explicit game, then run a sexually-explicit adventure.  However, this does not
by any means require Mr. Miller to publish any sexually explicit works.  It's
his system until you plop down the cash for it...after that you can do what
you want in the privacy of your own home.

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 15:38:39 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us>
Subject: Rh Factors and Hyper-Immune systems...

I wrote earlier in a post on Darmine Reproduction:
(The thought of a hyper-developed immune system attacking other's 
genetic materials, resulting in rejection or destruction of the 
incoming sperm, has its place. However, it also results in several 
allergic responses, ranging from burning sensations through skin 
lesions (sp?) to (in the case of other severe allergic reactions, 
potentially applicable in the scenario described before) shock, coma 
and possibly death.  These reactions do not lend themselves to a 
sexually active culture, but rather a stoic culture where sex is only 
performed ritually for the continuation of the species, and the 
experience is feared, painful, and certainly never enjoyed.) 

Leo Hale wrote:
*********************   
Wrong you are bucko.  There are several ways this could be a     
reality without any of the problems you have noted.  My Aunt and 
Uncle have opposed blood types, so that when she becomes pregnant the 
doctors need to monitor the whole pregnancy and give her special 
medication to keep her immune system from aborting the baby.  If the 
dosage is wrong or they don't give her a shot when they should her 
system rejects the baby because of the blood type problems.

My response:
The opposing Rh Factor problems that you have mentioned are due to 
the blood type of the child _after it has been conceived_, and the 
blood type of the mother.  This situation develops after a first 
child is conceived with Rh+ blood with a mother of Rh- blood, and the 
child is either born, or is aborted/miscarried after developing the 
Rh+ blood proteins.  In the evacuation of the fetus/newborn, any 
exposure to the child's blood proteins causes the mother to develop 
antibodies against it.  UNLESS the mother receives medication to 
suppress her body's immune response to form these antibodies.  These 
antibodies would then attach any subsequent children, like Leo's 
cousin, for example.  Nice thought, but this was not quite the point 
I was getting at.  Please allow me the opportunity to explain what I 
meant.

I have known women (yes, more than one) who are allergic to seminal 
fluid, resulting in burning sensations and occasional bleeding.  I 
have heard of cases of this where the woman develops hives, puss, 
inflammation, etc.  It is not pretty, and they are not comfortable.

I also know that people can have severe reactions to many different 
substances that leads to anaphylactic shock (spelling?).  The most 
well-known cases involve bee stings.  The body detects the presence 
of a foreign protein within itself, and sends antibodies to attack 
it.  The antibodies cause a response in the surrounding tissue, which 
causes blood flow to slow and tissue to swell, attempting to 
immobilize the protein so that the body can deal with it.  (I know 
this is oversimplified, but I just want to get the jist of it 
across.)  Sometimes this allergic response can lead to the swelling 
of the throat and larynx to the point that the body can't breathe 
sufficiently, and without medical treatment, the victim dies.  
Medication can suppress the body's allergic response, which is why 
the victim needs to receive medical attention as soon as possible.

ObTrav:  If the Ancients were to tune the Darmine's immune 
system to hyper-sensitive levels, such reactions as above become very 
possible, based on the genetic predispositions of the individuals.  
The Darmine has already been described as a small genetic group with 
limited amounts of genetic drift.  If one (or several) of the females 
among the original Darmine subject group possess even a mild 
irritation to seminal fluid, this would be exaggerated by the 
increase in the immune response.  The Ancients lose that one (or 
several) individuals to shock (or maybe save the subject in time, 
doesn't matter), and so decide to take another approach to settle the 
problem of heavy metal poisoning.

I think that is closer to what I meant.  My apologies if my previous
misrepresentation caused difficulties for anyone.  My thanks to Leo 
for assisting me in pointing this matter out to me.  I do hope, 
though,  that this helps develop the Darmine background at least a 
little bit.

Leo Hale wrote:
What is the average tech level of the Darmine worlds?  If it is say
below TL-7 that could explain why they still have a birthrate problem.
 Any culture with advanced medical facilities (say TL-12+) could
easily assist a couple, either one or both of whom was Darmine, to
concieve anytime they wanted to.  Lets hear it for advanced medical
treatments.

My response:
I don't know where the info came from.  I just saw it in a post from 
TML-digest #1135, and felt the need to respond.  If someone could 
help us out here, several people have contacted me regarding the 
location of this information.  Can anyone help us out here?

Thank you for your time.

In Service,
Jason

PS Bucko?  I haven't been called that in years.  Quaint...  :)
============================
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer I
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375

Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:19:14 -0500
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Spending the IISS' budget 

Actually it replaced the air raft in its bay (it was the 4 ton area IIRC)
because the Scout only had a 3 ton cargo area.  The normal "Scout" sensor
package was run from the small area to the left of engineering and it also
held the special "Scout" sensor suite.
Thom Harris

- -----Original Message-----
From: Keven R. Pittsinger <jamstar@glasscity.net>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 12:33 AM
Subject: Re: Spending the IISS' budget


>> the scout in Supp 7 had a bay which was to hold seensor equipment, I
>> take this to mean that the Exploratory/Survey sensors are removed before
>> the ship is let out on detached duty leaving it with a standard Civilian
>> suite.
>
>That's how it looks from here.  IIRC, there was even mention of a 4 ton
sensor
>module that dropped into the 'cargo' area of the Type S.  I can't remember
>where I saw this, or how much it cost.
>
>Keven
>
>tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ---
>                                                     Science-Fiction
Adventure
>                                                     In Reavers' Deep
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:30:35 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us>
Subject: UTUP v2.0 (long)

TML Folks,

Based on several great recommendations, the UTUP has now been 
upgraded to its new and improved format.  I hope you find it to your 
liking.  I admit that, to me, this is far better than my first 
attempt.  Thank you for your suggestions.

In Service,
Jason Kemp

=======================
Universal Traveller Universe Profile (UTUP) v2.0:

Developed as an extension of the Traveller-specific geek code 
commonly referred to as the IMTU code, the UTUP is very similar to 
the UPP and UWP profiles used in official Traveller products.

The format is very similar in appearance to the UPP, as follows:

Name (System Notes)  1234567
Aslan-1 Droyne-3 Timeline-2 etc.

Each UTUP characteristic corrolates to the UPP characteristic it
represents in some degree:

UPP strength => UTUP Rules Sets
UPP dexterity => UTUP Imperial Flexibility
UPP endurance => UTUP Gearheadedness 
UPP intelligence => UTUP Average TL
UPP education =>UTUP Timeline
UPP social standing => UTUP Canonicity

Each UTUP characteristic strives to keep the more radical or 
up-to-date values at the high end of the chart.  This system of 
organization is not intended to be disrespectful of anyone's 
Traveller Universe, but merely a means of detailing the system.

GAME SYSTEM NOTES:
In the place of the character's name in the UPP, the UTUP identifies
the person whose universe is being described.  (Alternately, the
campaign name could go here instead.)  In parentheses after the name,
the primary rules system used for the TU described can be identified. 
While this is mostly useful for non-standard systems, it also makes it
easier for someone to identify the rules set quickly.  This is
optional, as the information is clarified by the UTUP Rules
characteristic, below.

UTUP Rules Set:
This characteristic details the game system rules used in YTU.  The
actual code is as follows:

0   Classic Traveller primarily

1   MegaTraveller primarily

2   Traveller: The New Era primarily

3   T4: Milieu 0 primarily

4   GURPS:  Traveller primarily

5   Classic Traveller/heavy house rules modifications

6   MegaTraveller/ heavy house rules modifications

7   Traveller: The New Era/heavy house rules modifications

8   T4: Milieu 0/heavy house rules modifications

9   GURPS:  Traveller/heavy house rules modifications

A   Mix of various gaming systems

UTUP Imperial Flexibility:
This characteristic details the flexibility of the Imperium (or major
stellar government) in YTU.  Reminiscent of law levels, this measures
the size of the hyphen in anal-retentive, concerning the major
government of YTU.  The actual code is as follows:

0   Extremely rigid (0% Flexible)

1   Very, very rigid (10% Flexible)

2   Very rigid (20% Flexible)

3   Relatively rigid (30% Flexible)

4   Slightly rigid (40% Flexible)

5   Balanced (50% Flexible)

6   Rather chaotic (60% Flexible)

7   Relatively chaotic (70% Flexible)

8   Very chaotic (80% Flexible)

9   Very, very chaotic (90% Flexible)

A   Only exists in name (100% Flexible)

UTUP Gearheadedness:
This characteristic represents the degree of technicality and detail
utilized within YTU.  This is measured in the amount of precise detail
encountered, as described by the following code:

0   Let's just roleplay... (0% Precision)

1   Very, very loose (10% Precision)

2   Very loose (20% Precision)

3   Relatively undetailed (30% Precision)

4   Some vagueness (40% Precision)

5   Balanced (50% Precision)

6   Rather detailed (60% Precision)

7   Relatively detailed (70% Precision)

8   Very detailed (80% Precision)

9   Very, very detailed (90% Precision)

A   Got the schematic right here... (100% Precision)

UTUP Average Technology:
This characteristic describes the average technology level of YTU. 
This uses the same Tech Level digit as is used by the UWP.

UTUP Timeline:
This characteristic describes the timeline of YTU in comparison to the
official Traveller Universe.  The specific codes are as follows:

0   Pre-Industrial  (I don't like my fantasy gaming rules, so I use
Traveller instead.)

1   Industrial (First Contact or Cyberspace campaign.)

2   Early Stellar (circa First Imperium or Rule of Man)

3   Low Stellar (Long Night and Milieu 0/T4 era)

4   Mid Stellar (from circa 200 to 1000)

5   High Stellar (1000 to 1115; Classic Traveller)

6   Shattered Imperium (1115 to 1130ish; MegaTraveller time period and
background)

7   Regency (TNE time period circa 1200)

8   Grand Imperium (1115 to 1130ish; G:T alternate timeline)

9   Another period in the Traveller Universe timeline.

A   Alternate location/background.

UTUP Canonicity:
This section describes the relative canonicity of the setting and the
campaign overall.  Remember that the scale is rated from 
conservative to radical, and is not meant to be any indication of 
its Social Standing on or off the TML based on its canonicity.  The 
list below details the various levels:

0   The official universe is my universe!  (0% Deviation)

1   Only minor interpretational differences exist, mostly background
related.  (10% Deviation)

2   Minor interpretational differences exist, some of the gaming
system affected.  (20% Deviation)

3   One major interpretational difference exists, mostly background
related.  (30% Deviation)

4   One major interpretational difference exists, major impact on
system.  (40% Deviation)

5   Some modification has occurred in most areas.  Still recognizable.
 (50% Deviation)

6   Major modification of the campaign milieu and rules system.  (60%
Deviation)

7   Modifications make the campaign milieu almost unrecognizable. 
(70% Deviation)

8   The names have been changed to protect the innocent.  (80%
Deviation)

9   I'm definitely not violating any copyright laws.  (90% Deviation)

A   Traveller is the name I hide my new system under.  (100%
Deviation)


RACES AND OTHER ISSUES (The Skills Section):
To keep this UTUP system open-ended, all other issues regarding YTU
can be described by Skills and Skill Levels.  If a
subject/race/whatever is not listed, then it is assumed that it is in
accord with the official published Traveller material.  Otherwise, a
Skill and Skill Level can be used to detail YTU's divergence from the
rules that everyone else knows about.

For example, if FTL travel is not accomplished by Jump Drive, then 
the UTUP has the following Skill: Jump Drives-9.  If Jump Drives can 
operate on vessels under 100dT, then maybe that's only Jump  
Drives-4.

The actual skill levels are described below, with 0 indicating total 
compliance with published material and A representing complete 
divergence and/or total change from the published material:

0   0% Deviation

1   10% Deviation

2   20% Deviation

3   30% Deviation

4   40% Deviation

5   50% Deviation

6   60% Deviation

7   70% Deviation

8   80% Deviation

9   90% Deviation

A   100% Deviation

Note:  This is effectively the same scale used under UTUP Canonicity.

Final Example:

Project StarRise is a First Contact campaign using traditional 
Traveller background and modified HERO System rules.  Its UTUP would 
be:

Project StarRise (HERO) A37A11
First Contact-1  Vilani-2  Solomani Rim History-1

The variations above are based on the limited and somewhat 
conflicting information that exists regarding the time period and the 
direction of the campaign after PCs become mixed into it.

Thanks for your time.

In Service,
Jason Kemp
============================
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer I
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375

Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 22:53:56 +0000
From: Mark Watson <markw@antares.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: EARNED Social Standing

Thomas Vickers wrote:

> >>How do other refs handle Social Standing of this type (i.e. unrelated to
> >>nobility in any way)? How do you represent a person who
> >>was born to commoners and holds no noble title, yet exercises extreme
> >>influence through fame or wealth?
>
> Well, 2300 AD allows characters to build up renown points.
> That wouldn't quite be SS, but it could work for a way to build up influence
> without a huge
> SS.
>
> TV

With MT enhanced character generation, I used to take any overachievement on the
decoration roles (the ones which achieved higher order decorations) and add them
towards a "Fame" score that was used occasionally on influence tasks (ie
occasionally the PC in question would use the "do you know who you're dealing
with" argument to try and influence a PC). The task difficulty was based on the
distance from the character's homeworld.

It worked pretty well but I made sure not to overuse it. In the case of wealth
you could also use that as a modifier on the roll, I suppose.

M

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 18:09:48 -0500
From: "Paul Schirf" <pc@PerkWorks.com>
Subject: Re-Contact

Hello fellow listmembers,

  Just over a week ago I dug my classic traveller books and a load of graph
paper out of my parents attic... books that I have not cracked since I left
home in 1984.  I've discovered that several supplements are missing from my
collection - but all in all I've hit the ground running.  I began pumping my
original starship deckplans into Campaign Cartographer, a CAD program from
ProFantasy, created a website to house the results
(http://www.perkworks.com/traveller/CC2.html), joined a few web rings and
this mailing list, and introduced my SO to one of my old hobbies.

Paul@Schirf.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 13:00:44 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: re: Rail Guns

At 18:20 11/11/98 -0800, Bruce Alan Macintosh wrote:

>Realistically, they'll only hit stationary (non-evading) targets at
>relatively short ranges. (A mass driver round might take 30 minutes to T
>travel a hex in BL - plenty of time for a target to get out of the way.) 
>Only useful against targets that can't maneuver. Weber-esque mass-driver 
>missile launchers are similarly irrelevant; they only buy a missile 
>less than a hex per turn of extra speed. (They only matter for Weber
>becaues of technobabble - "get clear of the wedge" - that he invented
>so his ships couldn't fire all his missiles at once. Weber is exceptionally 
>bad about thinking about technological interactions...)

The thing that most struck me with his tech was how the wedges stopped
focused energy attacks like lasers by distorting them so they had no
penetration, which AFAIK might work, and somehow that still works on the
X-Ray pulse from a nuke, which is most certainly not coherent or focused.
The other thing is that PD fire seems quite poor, IMO.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 12:52:39 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Incendental effects of damage

At 11:46 11/11/98 -0800, Anthony Jackson wrote:

>GT is correct.  If it's supersonic, it makes a sonic crack.  If it's
subsonic,
>it might well be fairly quiet, but wouldn't have very impressive
performance. 
>However, needles might be quieter than standard bullets, since they have less
>air resistance (this may be made up for by being faster, however).  What it
>sounds like depends somewhat -- I suspect that a VRF gauss gun firing full
auto
>would make a low droning sound (frequency equal to its rate of fire), with a
>distinct doppler shift if the stream of bullets is sweeping a position.

Having spent a fair bit of time in the butts of rifle ranges I'd say it
would be so much a drone as like a continous snapping sound like an
enormous electrical arc.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 00:49:27 GMT
From: jzeitlin@cyburban.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: [WWW][Zine] Freelance Traveller has a new, permanent URL

After getting some bad news about our site at Tightbeam,
Freelance Traveller had to work fast.  Not all of the things that
needed to be done to gracefully withdraw from Tightbeam are
complete (realigning the WebRing is out of our control), but the
most important things _are_.

Freelance Traveller can now (and will continue to, permanently)
be found at http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller.  Easy to remember,
and it will follow the site around if it's ever necessary to move
it again (we hope not).

As usual, there are mirrors at http://w3.execnet.com/jeffz/ and
http://www.cyburban.com/~jzeitlin/.

We apologize for any problems you may encounter during our
transition period.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
Editor
Freelance Traveller - The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller® Resource
freetrav@hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 98 18:04:47 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Damge Rules (was: sexually flavored content)

On 11/13/98 at 03:27 AM,  dberry@hooked.net said:

>>And no, we don't need a combat system that complicated. In fact, I would
>>HATE to see what is essentially a simple game polluted with that kind of
>>stuff. For one thing, "accurately" modelling anything is pretty subjective
>>in a game where your first three stats are your hit points; when's the last
>>time you took damage to your Dexterity? let the realism freaks design their
>>own cumbersome systems; Traveller should go no farther into combat
>>"realism" than say Snapshot or maybe TNE (with more reasonable hit point
>>totals) and leave it at that, IMO.

>In ACQ we point out that the damage effects against STR, DEX and END
>can be seen as the effects of tissue damage and blood loss.  STR loss
>might be seen as damage that prevents you from fully using your body,
>such as broken bones or muscle tears.  DEX loss could refer to the
>fuzziness felt by wounded people, blood loss, or actual damage to the
>extremities.  END loss is mostly blood loss.  So you can get pretty
>descriptive without resorting to Rolemasterish tables.

Doug, that sounds good, I've always like the concept of damage
directly reducing characteristics.  

Let me just say that, IMO, INT and EDU should also be reduced by
damage, too.  I can guarentee you that someone distracted by pain,
blood lose, and/or concussion isn't going to perform mental tasks
any better than physical ones.

Taking a different approach, it might work better to increase all
task difficulities when a character is injured.  Perhaps, a "light
wound" increases difficulty levels by one and a "serious wound"
increase difficulty levels by two until the wound is "healed."

Eris

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1140
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Saturday, November 14 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1141



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: TNE in T5 (was: Traveller-digest V1998 #1135)
Re: RSG (was: Lost Files)
Re: UTUP v2.0
Re T4
Re: UTUP v2.0 (long) 
Re: Re Fusion+ and Firestorms
re: The Cold Equations
re: Darmine Reproduction
Silent gauss/Laundry
Re: Silent gauss/Laundry
UTUP v2.0
Re: Silent gauss/Laundry 
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1140
Re: Re-Contact
Re: Silent gauss/Laundry
MacOS8.5 & Rob Prior's Software
Re: Re : Riot Control Systems
Re: Minor Races 10 parsec limit
Re: T5 Discussion Draft
Re: Color Coding (was: Re: T5) More
Re: Damge Rules (was: sexually flavored content)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 19:39:02 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: TNE in T5 (was: Traveller-digest V1998 #1135)

> 1.) The Collapse is not long enough. 70 years is not enough time, IMO, for
> the changes that were portrayed as taking place, the rampant technophobia
> could be explained, but the worlds where the Imperium is all but forgotten,
> religions have developed around technology etc. just do not make sense to
> me in a 70 year time frame. I think a "Short Nap" of say 200-300 years
> would be more appropriate.

I disagree.  The technophobia and xenophobia aren't a problem.  As for the
religions and such, most of them are of the cult variety (are there any that
aren't?) and there was a major of population drop.  The number of people still
alive when the Third Imperium existed are very small (leaving remnants out,
for the purposes of this discussion).  In most areas there have been maybe 3
or 4 full generations (the last coming of age as the New Era begins... c1201).

> 2.) Contrary to it's name and previous portrayal, it should be established
> that "Virus" is not really a computer virus. It's a sentient form of
> electronic life which lives in silicon and computer chips, and can travel
> between them, rewrite circuitry, etc. Perhaps people can accept it better
> as "life, but not as we know it" than as sentient software.

Mostly, the people against the concept of Virus really seem to think it's
unviable for Traveller computers in general (regardless of their actual
composition and operation).  This completely ignores the transponder issue,
too. : )  I doubt changing the name will change their opinions.  Virus was
intended as a means of getting AI into Traveller (something that Traveller had
always tip-toed around).  The Empress Wave was about getting psionics into
Traveller (another tip-toe item, especially as was explained in G:T) and
something of a raising social consciousness (as well as raising the possiblity
of having weird physics,etc w/o having to move the campaign to a pocket
universe).

> 3.) Either allow the ships of the Reformation Coalition to use thruster
> plates, or establish a plausible reason why they cannot make them. perhaps
> t-plates require a special element that the Old Expanses sector happens to
> be very poor in, so they use HEPLar in newer ships and only have t-plates
> in relics. This gives incentive to salvage old Imperial ships, allows the
> use of HEPLar, which is interesting from a tactical standpoint, without
> "de-canonizing" thruster plates. It also, frankly, establishes a clear
> technological superiority for the Regency :)

IMTU it's been HEPlaR all along (as was the underlying assumption of TNE).
Once, I tossed around the idea that the operation of Thruster Plates
*required* an interconnectivity w/ the main computers and artificial-grav and
Grav-compensation systems (can u say "Grav pong?").  This interconnectivity
would be impossible to protect against Virus (unless done as the Hivers
apparently do and use a domesticated strain) and thus HEPlaR became the
standard thrust agency once again.   This means that most relics are going to
need to be refitted w/ a different manuever drive.  If that was the case, the
Regency would've converted away from T-plates except in very limited cases.
RASAC was experimenting w/ "tamed" Strain 5 Virii but that caused a huge
public outcry, especially amongst the victims and decendants of the Rape of
Trin.   Also reference the "Rhylanor Institute of Terror" (robotics is bad
juju). 

Of course, IMTU i'm allowing T-plates anyways, but at TL17 or 18 (i haven't
decided exactly yet).  I have always been dubious on the handwaves given for
T-plates, but there's always Clarke's Law and all that...  ; )  Course, IMTU
pretty much *all* of the alternate tech from Fire, Fusion, and Steel is
possible and viable (indeed used by some races)...

> I hope consideration would be given to contacting Dave Nilsen about this;
> as he was one of the people who came up with the TNE idea, he seems like a
> good choice to write such a book when the time comes.

The perfect choice.  The Empress Wave especially, as one example, was his baby
and only he truly knows his original intentions and what/where he would've
done w/ it.  


Gary

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 19:48:07 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: RSG (was: Lost Files)

> >- - The Regency Ship Guide (GDW for TNE)
> 
> Nothing exists on this except some illegible scribbles in a file folder.
> Nothing on computer, or easily portable. What details we put together for
the
> Clipper were mostly included in one book or another (Regency Equipment
guide,
> etc.)

Dave Nilsen says he had this one about half done, but had to do the art
direction for the Regency Combat Vehicle Guide or it wouldn't have been
published.  Also that it would've included the design sheets so that we could
tinker w/ the designs.  This one sounded like it would've been damned good
IMO...  

The RC Guide to the Aurora Clipper was mentioned in Brilliant Lances (one of
the earliest TNE products).  It must've been pushed on teh backburner big
time.


Gary

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 20:05:29 -0500
From: "Shade" <jwatts@catt.com>
Subject: Re: UTUP v2.0

Ok...seems simple enough!


652F621

And its been going since 1985 in one version or another, but still the same
universe and still the set of background.

Shade




The problem with religious texts is that the answers
arent in the BACK, either. 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 15:58:27 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re T4

SOmeone posted a scathing late period review of T4.
Someone else said the system had/has it's charms.

I suggest to any interested: Pick it up, if nothing else, to mine for good
sub-systems. I like the psi rules, and the CGen rules are ok. Those items
unchainged from pervious editions are of course unchanged. Ditch the rest,
i do, as the T4 combat system is as broken as TNE's, and the T4 task system
was quite accurately (IMNSHO) reflected by said review.

IMO, the best thing about my T4 book is that it has a signature from MWM.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:aramis@gci.net> Note: All other E-mail addresses for me expire by
the end of november 1998!
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
UTUP 0309 6-7779577-5-5-2
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 20:38:07 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: UTUP v2.0 (long) 

> Universal Traveller Universe Profile (UTUP) v2.0:
> 
> Developed as an extension of the Traveller-specific geek code 
> commonly referred to as the IMTU code, the UTUP is very similar to 
> the UPP and UWP profiles used in official Traveller products.
> 
> The format is very similar in appearance to the UPP, as follows:
> 
> Name (System Notes)  1234567
> Aslan-1 Droyne-3 Timeline-2 etc.

Candles Against The Night  044B62
History-3  Solomani Rim History-4  Reavers' Deep History-3

'Candles Against The Night' is an open-ended PBEM campaign set in Reavers' 
Deep Sector in the later part of the Rebellion/Hard Times Era of 1125.  Rules 
mix is pretty much stock CT with foldins from MT and history from various 
sources (PE list, HT/SM, etc).  In operation since August '98.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 21:46:03 EST
From: LtSnuggles@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re Fusion+ and Firestorms

 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 21:41:18 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: The Cold Equations

Doug Berry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Have you read "The Cold Equations," by Tom Godwin, published in 1954? It's
>a classic story, somewhat chilling, about a stowaway on a spacecraft that
>has a limited fuel & air supply. The unalterable laws of physics determine
>that there are resources for only one person to survive.

What's chilling is that anyone would boost without looking inside the
ship's closet!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I hadn't read the original, but I saw a movie version the Science Fiction
network made. I got the idea that the pilot never considered that someone
would stow away on his ship - he figured that anyone who had access
to his ship would know what kind of death sentence stowing away
would mean. 

****spoiler warning if you haven't seen/read it*******

















The movie version I saw was one of the best original movies
Sci Fi network has done.

He falls in love with her, but she can't land the ship...and though he
wants to, he has a responsibility too important for him to die with
her. She steps into the airlock, and he has to cycle it open.

Blew me away.

They did another movie that day, one from a story I had read, though
the title escapes me. The original story had two people trapped on
a spaceship that was running out of air...the movie elaborated on
the idea quite a bit. The rewrite added more crewmen, mostly stock
type characters. They had air enough for all but one crewman...
and the engineer decided he didn't want to risk being the one to draw
the short straw. The dangerous cat and mouse game that ensues
makes things worse...great scenario idea.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 22:33:04 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Darmine Reproduction

Leo Hale wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
What is the average tech level of the Darmine worlds?  If it is say below
TL-7 that could explain why they still have a birthrate problem.  Any
culture with advanced medical facilities (say TL-12+) could easily assist a
couple, either one or both of whom was Darmine, to concieve anytime they
wanted to.  Lets hear it for advanced medical treatments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
Note that the availability of TL12+ (or even TL8+) reproductive medicine
techniques may solve the Darmine infertility problems, without having
any effect on Darmine libido or secondary sexual development. The
Darmine will consider what they have to be normal, not problems to
be fixed.

Many of we terrans haven't been TL 0 for a couple millenia now, but we
still have a lot of wires in our brain you'd see in a mammoth hunter.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 23:50:30 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Silent gauss/Laundry

Anthony Jackson quotes 
SD Mooney, who writes:
>> 
>> 1 question. One of the MTJs explained that gauss weapons would be silent
>> (no sonic crack) but GT says they make a sonic crack. Wheich one is correct
>> (ISTR that Joe Fugate had talked to someone involved in designing that kind
>> of technology for the MTJ comment).
>> 
>GT is correct.  If it's supersonic, it makes a sonic crack.  If it's
subsonic,
>it might well be fairly quiet, but wouldn't have very impressive performance.
>However, needles might be quieter than standard bullets, since they have less
>air resistance (this may be made up for by being faster, however).  What it
>sounds like depends somewhat -- I suspect that a VRF gauss gun firing full
auto
>would make a low droning sound (frequency equal to its rate of fire), with a
>distinct doppler shift if the stream of bullets is sweeping a position.

Yep. Crack if supersonic. I think the problem came about when the original
notes on gauss weapons said you could adjust the velocity of the round to
produce a subsonic round, but that range suffered. It may be that the
description then got edited down to remove the part about adjusting the
velocity, and kept the part about silent. Still, brings up an interesting
question if you have a laser rangefinder on a gauss weapon, so you could input
the power needed for an optimum trajectory. 

I ain't gonna sweat it.

StevenA201@aol.com
>I'm getting ready to start up a campaign, and I've run into a little snag.
>What do people eat while in jump?  

PBJ Sandwiches. Nature's perfect food.

>How is it prepared?  I don't see a kitchen on any of my deckplans!

The kitchen is dehydrated. You add water, and reconstitute it.

>For that matter, what do we wear?  I also can't find a washing-machine.
>Disposable clothing, perhaps?

Why would it need to be disposable? In space, no one gets dirty, so you just
wear the same stuff for a week. I did it all the time in my college days...
:   )

ObSWRef: A year or so ago when the SW trilogy was re-issued, they re-issued
the ca.1/120 kit of the M. Falcon with Interior. Not only are there no
kitchens on that pup, there are no cabins, and NO CARGO HOLD. At least not in
the model. 

Strange...

Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 00:32:26 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Silent gauss/Laundry

At 11:50 PM 11/13/98 -0500, Anthony and Loren wrote:
...
>>What do people eat while in jump?  
>
>PBJ Sandwiches. Nature's perfect food.
>

Good choice - well made, they literally hold themselves together till
ingested...

>>How is it prepared?  I don't see a kitchen on any of my deckplans!
>
>The kitchen is dehydrated. You add water, and reconstitute it.
>

Not necessary - PBJ has indefinite shelf life - prepack 'em planetside...

>>For that matter, what do we wear?  I also can't find a washing-machine.
>>Disposable clothing, perhaps?
>
>Why would it need to be disposable? In space, no one gets dirty, so you just
>wear the same stuff for a week. I did it all the time in my college days...
>:   )
>

An old ASW friend once told me of life on destroyers - you had a given
number of uniforms, folded and stacked neatly in your locker. You wore the
first one for a week, then refolded it and put it to the bottom of the
stack, then donning the uniform on top.  You repeated this process till the
first uniform had risen through the stack to the top.  At this point, it
was perfectly clean.  At least it smelt better than anything else in the
stack...


Bill Rutherford

Please note that my email address has changed!  It is now as appears below...

worj@erols.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 00:44:55 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: UTUP v2.0

> 8   Grand Imperium (1115 to 1130ish; G:T alternate timeline)
> 
> 9   Another period in the Traveller Universe timeline.
> 
> A   Alternate location/background.

IMO, the "Grand Imperium" should be included w/ "Alternate
location/background" or maybe have 8 be the "official Alternate"  ; )
Actually have that be:

8, The Far Future (M:2000 Marc talked 'bout)
A,  Official Alternate universe (1116 to 1130+, G:T)
B+ (reflecting increasing difference from the TU) Other alternate
location/background 


Gary

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 00:51:47 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Silent gauss/Laundry 

> Yep. Crack if supersonic. I think the problem came about when the original
> notes on gauss weapons said you could adjust the velocity of the round to
> produce a subsonic round, but that range suffered. It may be that the
> description then got edited down to remove the part about adjusting the
> velocity, and kept the part about silent. Still, brings up an interesting
> question if you have a laser rangefinder on a gauss weapon, so you could input
> the power needed for an optimum trajectory. 

I'd think that a needle round would have a real light crack.  Besides, if 
somebody shoots at you with a supersonic round, you're dead before you hear it.

> >How is it prepared?  I don't see a kitchen on any of my deckplans!
> 
> The kitchen is dehydrated. You add water, and reconstitute it.

What do you add to dehydrated water?

> >For that matter, what do we wear?  I also can't find a washing-machine.
> >Disposable clothing, perhaps?
> 
> Why would it need to be disposable? In space, no one gets dirty, so you just
> wear the same stuff for a week. I did it all the time in my college days...
> :   )

Um, not quite.  People still sweat, skin cells still shed, and skin bacteria 
still breed.  So yeah, people still get dirty.

I could see a small 'sonic washer' installed in a wall someplace on a TL10+
ship.  Just stuff your dirty clothes in it overnight, then wear the clean
clothes in the morning.

Or, just stuff your dirty clothes in your duffel and wash them when you get to
port.  Every character I've ever played, and every character I've ever reffed,
had at least 2 weeks' worth of clothes in their duffel for just this purpose.
And there's such a thing as 'room service' at spacers' hostels in whatever TU
I've played that took care of laundry.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 00:11:40 -0600
From: "Christopher B. Thrash" <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1140

> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 18:55:11 +0000
> From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
> Subject: Re: Ship's Laundry (was: What shall we have for dinner?)
> 
> "Christopher B. Thrash" <thrash@io.com> wrote:
> 
> >In the real world, one of the first things you do on making portcall is
> >send your laundry out to be washed; the stewards are responsible for it.
> 
> IMTU the stewards are responsible for the commercial success of a ship,
> like the cargomaster in Andre Norton's Sci-Fi. They negotiate and buy
cargo
> too, plus they handle it.
> 
> ISTR that Marc was considering broadening the steward skill in T5 to
> include this. It gives them something else to do.
> 

Again in the real world, the First Officer is traditionally in charge of
cargo operations, although the Captain may supervise it himself if he has
reason to believe there will be problems.  After all, what is there on a
cargo ship that is more important to do?  The owners expect the ship to
make money, which means careful attention to the money-making aspects of
operations.  I'm not so sure about how passenger ships work, but I suspect
it's something similar.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 02:02:24 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re-Contact

"Paul Schirf" <pc@PerkWorks.com> announceth thus:

>Hello fellow listmembers,
>
>  Just over a week ago I dug my classic traveller books and a load of graph
>paper out of my parents attic... books that I have not cracked since I left
>home in 1984.  I've discovered that several supplements are missing from my
>collection - but all in all I've hit the ground running.  I began pumping my
>original starship deckplans into Campaign Cartographer, a CAD program from
>ProFantasy, created a website to house the results
>(http://www.perkworks.com/traveller/CC2.html), joined a few web rings and
>this mailing list, and introduced my SO to one of my old hobbies.
>
>Paul@Schirf.com
>

 And a nice collection of deckplans it is, too...


GypsyComet

GypsyComet@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/gypsycomet/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 00:26:13 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Silent gauss/Laundry

> From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
> Subject: Silent gauss/Laundry
> >I'm getting ready to start up a campaign, and I've run into a little
snag.
> >What do people eat while in jump?  
> PBJ Sandwiches. Nature's perfect food.

Is that with or without the moo juice?

> >How is it prepared?  I don't see a kitchen on any of my deckplans!
> The kitchen is dehydrated. You add water, and reconstitute it.

Ah, I see, but where do you get the water from?

> >For that matter, what do we wear?  I also can't find a washing-machine.
> >Disposable clothing, perhaps?
> Why would it need to be disposable? In space, no one gets dirty, so you
just
> wear the same stuff for a week. I did it all the time in my college
days...
> :   )

Yes, we all know it...  Why else do you think your roommates all moved out
on you...  *weg*

> ObSWRef: A year or so ago when the SW trilogy was re-issued, they re-issued
> the ca.1/120 kit of the M. Falcon with Interior. Not only are there no
> kitchens on that pup, there are no cabins, and NO CARGO HOLD. At least not in
> the model.

Ah, but in the SW Inistraded thingy they just put out, they have the plans
for the MF...  It has four bunks...  In some of the books they talk about
staterooms...  In the movies you see some bunks....  As for the cargo hold,
well from what I can understand, the 2 forward booms are it...

> Strange...

Not really....  Just wierd...

> Loren Wiseman

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 11:12:49 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: MacOS8.5 & Rob Prior's Software

Hi all,

As you know, Rob Prior has produced a superb set of programs for use with
Traveller under MacOS. This include QSDS(the software), Infini-V (vehicle
design), IGS2 (sector level mapping) and other work such as Metator (under
development) and a variety of Hypercard Stacks.

Anyway, Apple just released MacOS 8.5, which went totally PowerPC native.
Rob's machine at home is a 680x0 series, and mine has yet to be upgraded to
8.5(*) so I would appreciate knowing if the programs all work under OS8.5.

So if anyone has upgraded to OS8.5, can they let me know if the software
works - the demos of the shareware, along with the full versions of the
Hypercard stacks are available at http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/RPS.html

Many thanks in advance,

Dom

[OT] PS (*) does anyone know if Illustrator 7 and Photoshop 4 still operate
under OS8.5? I can only find references to Illustrator 8 and PhotoShop 5 at
Apple and Adobe's websites, and if I have to upgrade these two (more
specifically Photoshop as I don't use it a lot compared to Illustrator) I'm
going to end up delaying upgrading the OS longer :-(

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 22:20:06 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re : Riot Control Systems

In mail you write:

> At 01:39 am 11/12/98 PST, you wrote:
>>> N-heptane also has this advantage : you can always light it.
>>
>>And if you are dispersing it in the air, the *rioters* can light it.
>>Fuel air explosions air not nice things to be caught in.
>
>         But it's the rioters caught in it ... "Think of it as evolution in
> action." (Niven/Pournelle, "Oath of Fealty").

If you can figure out a way to make it diffuse in just *one* direction,
you've got a Nobel Prize coming. 

Lacking that, the center of the explosion will be the vehicle
dispersing the n-heptane.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 08:33:12 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Minor Races 10 parsec limit

In a message dated 11/13/98 12:43:35 AM Central Standard Time,
swordworlder@yahoo.com writes:

<< 
 Simple sociology.  Here in Maine we have a few "Minor Races".  They
 are seldom seen outside of their little enclaves in Portland.  Nature
 of the beast.  It's easier to blaze new trails in the wilderness than
 among other cultures.  Sad, perhaps, but true.
  >>

Nice answer.

I am the one that said "within 10 parsecs." Minor races have a smaller
population base. That does not preclude us from encountering them very far
away, nor does it stop a player character member of such a minor race
adventuring over great distances. 

Its a rule of thumb/ observed phenomenon. It's not like the Navy checks ships
to see these guys aren't beyond their limits.

"Hmmm. Your papers say you're Geonee. You're kinda far from home, aren't you
fella?"

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 08:33:11 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: T5 Discussion Draft

In a message dated 11/13/98 2:40:32 AM Central Standard Time,
pnewman@alaska.net writes:

<< I agree that charts and information are vital to be able _to_ play the
 game but it seems to me that some narrative material is necessary to
 make people _want_ to play the game.  If the game does not catch peoples
 interest then why are they going to want to play it?  [This may be a
 question of terminology and Marc may well have been including background
 information in information.] >>

Yes it is a question of terminology. My pointis that the charts reflect the
structure and data of the game rules and they need to be done first. Then I'll
cut them back and put in as much as is necessary for the base/core rules book.
And that willbe surrounded by narrative rules which detail how to do it. The
problem is that most rules are written in a sequential style, and often don't
clearly express how to do whatever the game calls for.

And there will be flavor/sidebar text to give the feel for the environment.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 08:33:18 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Color Coding (was: Re: T5) More

In a message dated 11/13/98 12:15:06 AM Central Standard Time, eris@gulf.net
writes:

<< 
 >Faraway Sector. A kit/boxed set with blank maps and everything you
 >need to set up a sector on the edge of charted space.
 
 Thanks for not forgetting those of us who are playing in other
 universes. 
 
  >>
You're welcome. The thought behind Faraway sector was also that it would
provide aplace where you could put that self-designed sector and still have
some potential ties to the Impeerium campaign (although separated by enough
distance that they wouldn't interfere with each other).

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 06:45:15 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Damge Rules (was: sexually flavored content)

At 06:04 PM 11/13/98 -0600, you wrote:
>On 11/13/98 at 03:27 AM,  dberry@hooked.net said:

>Let me just say that, IMO, INT and EDU should also be reduced by
>damage, too.  I can guarentee you that someone distracted by pain,
>blood lose, and/or concussion isn't going to perform mental tasks
>any better than physical ones.

Once you've dropped to Grave status (all three physical characteristics
lowered to zero) you begin losing INT.  (Oxygen starvation) when INT hits
zero, you are dead.  

>Taking a different approach, it might work better to increase all
>task difficulities when a character is injured.  Perhaps, a "light
>wound" increases difficulty levels by one and a "serious wound"
>increase difficulty levels by two until the wound is "healed."

Each level of injury carries it's own problems, mostly involving lost
Action Points and having to roll to stay conscious.

- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+-------------------------------------+
| "Some days, you just can't get rid  |
|  of a bomb!"                        |
|     -Adam West, the REAL Batman     |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1141
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Saturday, November 14 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1142



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Silent gauss/Laundry 
Ilelish Subsector Names circa Milieu 0
Re: Color Coding (was: Re: T5)
Re: sexually flavored content
Re: Re : Riot Control Systems
For Anyone Looking For Traveller 4 Things
Re: Ilelish Subsector Names circa Milieu 0
Dragon Mag Traveller Articles
Re: T5
Smuggling
Familias Regnant
Re: Minor races 10 parsec limit
Re: Smuggling
Aslan government codes
Re: Aslan government codes
Re: sexually flavored content
Re: T5 Chargen NPC Qick Gen
Re: T5 Cards (draft material)
Re: T5 The Milieux (draft)
Re: MIL SF Reading List

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 07:47:42 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Silent gauss/Laundry 

At 12:51 AM 11/14/98 -0500, you wrote:

>I'd think that a needle round would have a real light crack.  Besides, if 
>somebody shoots at you with a supersonic round, you're dead before you
hear it.

Yes, you're dead, but your buddies are trying very hard to kill the shooter.

>> >How is it prepared?  I don't see a kitchen on any of my deckplans!
>> 
>> The kitchen is dehydrated. You add water, and reconstitute it.
>
>What do you add to dehydrated water?

you add the dreaded DHMO.

- --

+--------------------------------------+
|Douglas E. Berry    dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/     |
+--------------------------------------+
| "In the long run luck is given       |
|  only to the efficient."             |
|     -Helmuth von Moltke, German Army |
+--------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 16:02:00 -0000
From: "Stuart Ferris" <stuart.ferris@virgin.net>
Subject: Ilelish Subsector Names circa Milieu 0

Can anyone confirm the Vilani names for the sixteen Subsectors in the
Ilelish sector?

Stuart Ferris
stuart.ferris@virgin.net
http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.ferris/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 11:22:44 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Color Coding (was: Re: T5)

>Not a bad idea.  But what color do we use for variant Milieu to use?

Irridescent silver, the kind that reflects little rainbows when the page
is bent.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 11:45:02 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: sexually flavored content

Much as I disagree with Marc's position on philosophical grounds (why
should a naked body be more obscene than one torn to pieces?), I think
he's right on political grounds.

I'm a teacher in Canada, a country where the religious right is less
powerful than in the USA, but still has reasonable clout. The
double-standard is alive and well, folks, and a small publisher has to
decide if the issue is worth taking a financial hit. Sex-ed programs are
under fire as having no place in school - the same schools have many
teenage mothers and are surrounded by extremely suggestive advertising
billboards. Gang violence is decried, yet television and movies glorify
violence as a way of gaining respect.

Much as I wish North America could relax a bit, the unfortunate fact is
that our culture seems to accept public violence but not public sex
(except in advertising, where the reverse applies).

Those of us who want Uplifted Bonobos in T5 will just have to do it
unofficially :-)


PS.  Marc's ruling may well result from personal convictions. I'm just
trying to point out that, personal convictions aside, he has sound
financial reasons for the decision. I'd rather have a viable T5 that's a
bit unbalanced than a balanced but unviable game.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 10:30:16 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Re : Riot Control Systems

At 10:20 pm 11/13/98 PST, you wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>> At 01:39 am 11/12/98 PST, you wrote:
>>>> N-heptane also has this advantage : you can always light it.
>>>
>>>And if you are dispersing it in the air, the *rioters* can light
it.
>>>Fuel air explosions air not nice things to be caught in.
>>
>>         But it's the rioters caught in it ... "Think of it as
evolution in
>> action." (Niven/Pournelle, "Oath of Fealty").
>
>If you can figure out a way to make it diffuse in just *one*
direction,
>you've got a Nobel Prize coming. 
>
>Lacking that, the center of the explosion will be the vehicle
>dispersing the n-heptane.

	Actually, I was thinking the same way tear gas is dispersed ... you
throw/launch a dispenser into the crowd.
- -- Dave Golden
- -- House in Colorado Springs for sale! 
- -- http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/House

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 11:48:29 -0600
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net>
Subject: For Anyone Looking For Traveller 4 Things

IF you are missing some of the Traveller 4 books etc check out 
www.lonestarcomics.com

They have searchable web page just search under "traveller".
They have Imperial Squadrons, FF&S2 and other hard to get sourcebooks.
They also have some of the Traveller 4 fiction paperbacks in stock.
They do mail order and will do a *wish* list for those looking for the hard
to find items.

Good hunting

Sinbad Sam
"Black Curtain" Rod Holder...
AI Virus inferior races(Aslan, Humaniti, Kkree, Droyne) Interfacer
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
sinbad@ignore.hex.net

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 13:39:50 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Ilelish Subsector Names circa Milieu 0

Stuart Ferris wrote:

> Can anyone confirm the Vilani names for the sixteen Subsectors in the
> Ilelish sector?

Those names conveniently left out of Milieu 0 Hardcover (First Survey)
The system names appear to be all Vilani.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 11:19:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Camino <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Dragon Mag Traveller Articles

Does anyone know where I could find a biblio of Dragon mag contents. 
Specifically looking for Traveller articles.  I sold all of mine years
ago, but I still have "Exonidas Spaceport" and some minor stuff in
photocopy form.  Am looking to reobtain the originals and/or add the a
list of articles to by CT bibliography project.  Thanks.



ps. I'd appreciate any comments on the biblio contents to date. 
Follow the link from my page.




==
- ------------------------><>------------------------
IMTU 0601 tc++ tm !tn t4+ ?tg ru++ 3i pi ta+ he+ 
=>UTUP 0309 0-400A04C-5-8-2<=

You might be a Traveller fanatic if... your resume includes a UPP and skill listing!
http://come.to/traveller

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 14:52:41 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: T5

Some thoughts on T5:

>The rules structure will support all milieux, although it will
>provide examples and details for one milieu.

I liked the reexploration feel and colonization opportunities of TNE and
M:0

>B. Characters (separate chapter discussing who they are and what
>they do). Character Generation

Attention to quick NPC creation. As GM, I need to have some idea how well
which of those rent-a-thugs can swing a chair leg, how many MCr my patron
can reasonably afford to give away, and whether the pilot-2 my PCs just
hired knows a hawk from a handsaw; without spending an hour each generating
their life histories since I may or may not ever use them again.  Many NPCs
won't be Travellers themselves: perhaps some suggestions on GM designed NPC
careers?

>F. Worlds. World Generation. World Surfaces. Terrain. Travel on
>Worlds.

Extended system generation. Any number of the less hospitable mainworlds
must be depending on resources from the extended system. (Not to mention
the reverse).  Chicken stealing by pirates can't be the only fowl play
going on out where honest interstellar merchants seldom go...

>G. Special Activities. Noble Lands. Scholar Research Projects.
>Trade and Commerce. Scout Surveys. Naval Patrols. Military
>Missions.

Yes!
In trade and commerce, I'd like to see random generation of freight or
speculative cargo by type, not just size; tying the types of cargo
available on and marketable on a world to the UWP; an inverse relationship
between purchase price and size of cargo;  and having differences in TL
affect manufactured goods most, processed materials less, raw materials
least.

>Cards. 

Blank and copyable versions, for GM-designed stuff?

>Charts. The focus of T5 is the chart pages which detail how to
>do things succinctly and clearly. 

Gathered together by chapter, preferably.

>More Aliens in the General Population. As opposed to everyone
>being human.

Yes.
  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 14:52:36 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Smuggling

Any world with trade restrictions on either imports or exports can be
expected to have problems with smugglers. The restrictions might be
outright bans, high taxes, or excessive paperwork.
Most worlds will have _some_ such trade restrictions, so smuggling is
almost always economically viable.  So how do smugglers operate, and does
this have anything to do with p***cy? 

 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 14:54:25 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Familias Regnant

I've not seen much mention of Elizabeth Moon's work here, but I
for anyone interested in the politics of the Imperial Navy and
the high nobility, her Familias Regnant can provide some
inspiration. Very Travellerish.

   "Hunting Party"
   "Winning Colors"
   "Once a Hero"

And two others whose titles I don't recall.
 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 07:51:44
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Minor races 10 parsec limit

>From: CardSharks@aol.com
>Subject: Re: Minor Races 10 parsec limit
>

>"Hmmm. Your papers say you're Geonee. You're kinda far from home, aren't you
>fella?"
>

A good adventure hook is the usefullness of bureacrats and administrators
from far away ... they bring new perspectives, arent linked in to any local
power networks, and nobody local knows the exact way they can be got at.

These sort of 'mercenary administrators' were used in Mogul India, and
occasionally in China and the Ottoman Empire as well.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 15:23:24 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

Thad Coons wrote:
> 
> Any world with trade restrictions on either imports or exports can be
> expected to have problems with smugglers. The restrictions might be
> outright bans, high taxes, or excessive paperwork.
> Most worlds will have _some_ such trade restrictions, so smuggling is
> almost always economically viable.  So how do smugglers operate, and does
> this have anything to do with p***cy?
> 
> 

Here, this is a 3 meter pole...you can play with that p***cy stuff using it.

As for _smuggling_ well, I suspect there's going to be little variation
from today.

You either a) sneak it in under their noses, b) bring it in where and
when they're not looking, or c) bribe someone to let it through.

Now, complicating matters, the starport is not under the authority of
the regulating entity, generally, so you can usually land with whatever
it is you're smuggling. You can get it across the fence either using
option a) or c). With modern smuggling operations, at least into a
relatively high law state as the US, a) is the usual course. You stick
whatever you're smuggling in with legitimate goods, hide it somehow,
like false bottoms in cargo containers, inside body parts of the
air-raft, or more creatively, as they've done with cocaine coming into
the US, make it into something legitimate.

 In one case, IIRC, the cocaine was set into concrete culvert sections
and terra cotta pipes, pots and figurines. IN other cases they have
actually molded the coke into innocuous shapes. 

This gets harder as detectors get better...tl15 densitometers will make
it really difficult to get by with hiding it in vehicles or false
bottoms...it depends on how closely everything is searched.

Bribing a customs agent is widely practiced; just be aware, as with any
bribe, you're not buying the person, only renting them for an
indeterminate amount of time.

Sneaking something past them where they're not looking, is widely done,
as you can just bring in the entire ship offload it and go, smaller
vessels can be used as well.

This has it's own dangers, of course. You can run afoul of the COACC
forces, which usually can readily get a shoot on sight order, and blow
you out of the sky.

It just depends on how closely the airspace around the planet is.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 15:03:12 -0800
From: Joe Webb <jwwebb@earthlink.net>
Subject: Aslan government codes

Howdy,

Could someone explain the government codes for Aslan worlds in the UWP?
I've recently downloaded sector data from the HIWG and came across them.

I assume they correspond to particular clans, but which ones?

Thanks for any help.

Joe Webb

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 02:03:06 -0000
From: "Peter L.S. Trevor" <ptrevor.trisen@zetnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Aslan government codes

Joe Webb wrote:
> Could someone explain the government codes for Aslan worlds in
> the UWP? I've recently downloaded sector data from the HIWG and
> came across them.
>
> I assume they correspond to particular clans, but which ones?


Unless HIWG are using their own codes the following should answer
your question:

G) Small station or facility.  Either operated  by  an  off-world
   clan or controlled by a company. (the only  instance  where  a
   world is controlled by anything but a clan).

H) Split control.  Different parts of  the  world  are  owned  by
   several on-world clans, an analogy to human balkanised worlds.

J) Single on-world clan control.  Other small clans may  also  be
   present, but they will be dominated by the major clan.

K) Single multi-worlds clan control.  The world is controlled  by
   a single clan whose span  extends  over  several  worlds,  not
   necessarily nearby.

L) Major clan control, the world is  controlled  by  one  of  the
   Tlaukhu.

M) Vassal clan control, the world is controlled (but  not  owned)
   by a vassal clan in fief to a large clan.

N) Major vassal clan control.  The world is controlled  (but  not
   owned) by a vassal clan in fief to one of the Tlaukhu.

(Tlaukhu = The 29 dominant clans of the Aslan Hierate)



Regards PLST
"Rome wasn't burned in a day."

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 22:10:21 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: sexually flavored content

In a message dated 11/14/98 10:46:48 AM Central Standard Time,
Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca writes:

<< 
 PS.  Marc's ruling may well result from personal convictions. I'm just
 trying to point out that, personal convictions aside, he has sound
 financial reasons for the decision. I'd rather have a viable T5 that's a
 bit unbalanced than a balanced but unviable game.
  >>

Without any statement from me, then every artist and every writer put in his
or her own ideas as to sexual content. The problem comes up more in art than
in text. Without direction, artists put in whatever they want, and from time
to time, they make the drawings suggestive or downright sexual even though it
has no application to subject being illustrated.

So I have made a statement which has to do with principle rather than not make
a statement and let many other participants set the tone instead.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 22:12:45 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: T5 Chargen NPC Qick Gen

In a message dated 11/14/98 1:54:34 PM Central Standard Time,
Sapience@compuserve.com writes:

<< >B. Characters (separate chapter discussing who they are and what
 >they do). Character Generation
 
 Attention to quick NPC creation.  >>

Every one of the character types in the draft Chhar Gen which was posted
several months ago has a portion devoted to quick gen of NPCs.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 22:16:57 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: T5 Cards (draft material)

In a message dated 11/14/98 1:54:34 PM Central Standard Time,
Sapience@compuserve.com writes:

<< >Cards. 
 
 Blank and copyable versions, for GM-designed stuff? >>

THE TRAVELLER CARD SYSTEM
	Traveller cards are used to record, access, and present information in the
course of preparing for and playing adventures. 

 DIMENSIONS
	Cards are laid out with dimensions of 3.5 inches width and 2.5 inches height.
This 2.5 x 3.5 size is the same as a common playing card. 
	Leading. Line spacing is based on eighteen 9 point cells in a Word for
Windows table. Typically two stacked cells form a boxed entry on the card; the
upper cell holds the entry title or name; the lower cell holds data (and may
be the location of a mail merge field). The total height of the card is 
	Cell Width. Cell widths may be any size, but total width is 3.39 inches.
Typical cell widths are quarters.

Columns
	Col 1	Col 2	Col 3	Col 4
Four Columns	0.85	0.85	0.85	0.84
Three Columns	1.13	1.13	1.13	
Two Columns	1.70	1.69		
One Column	3.39			

	Special Sizes. Some forms are double-sized: 5.0 x 3.5 or 2.5 x 7.0. Other
forms are full page size or even poster size.

HEADINGS 
	Headings in cells are set in 6 pt Arial flush left. 
	The Card Title is set at the bottom of the card in Arial Bold 6 pt. The Card
title is set flush left; the card number is expressed as Form NN flush right,
with NN as the two digit card number.

RULINGS
	The outside border for the card form is 3 pt.
	Inside rulings are 3/4 point.

(example)
Consequences	Date
	
	Source (Person)
	
Focus (Person)	Origin (Location)
	
	Gravity
	
Rationale	Polarity
	ž Positive
	ž Neutral
	ž Negative
	ž Undetermined
Resolution Events	Comments
	
	
	
	
Consequence Card	Form 67

 CARD NUMBERING SYSTEM
	Blank cards are numbered with two digits to recapitulate their specific
purposes. The first digit indicates a basic category or area of interest; the
second digit identifies a specific type of card. Card numbers ending in 0
(zero) are not used. Card numbers ending in 9 are a non-standard size
(typically double width or double height). 
	Cards numbered higher than 99 are non-standard and are created by game
masters or adventure writers based on need.

 00	___________
01	
02	
03	
04	
05	
06	
07	
08	
09	

10	Beings
11	Character
12	Patron
13	Spear Carrier
14	Beast
15	
16	
17	Genetic Heritage
18	Cultural Heritage
19	Minor Race

 20	Situations
21	Event
22	Mission
23	
24	
25	Field Encounter
26	Random
27	Battlefield Event
28	Goal
29	

30	Activities
31	World Survey
32	
33	
34	Life Pursuit
35	Masquarade
36	Research Grant
37	Violation
38	Performance
39	

 40	Objects
41	Equipment
42	Protection
43 	Weapon
44	
45	Gimmick
46	Vehicle
47	Vehicle Exten
48	Computer
49	

50	Survey
51	Starport
52	
53	City
54	Location
55	Terrain Hex
56	World
57	Star System
58	Subsector
59	Sector

 60	Special
61	Alien Creation
62	
63	Push
64	Pull
65	Consequence
66	Catastrophe
67	Nemesis
68	
69	

70	Information
71	Library Data
72	
73	
74	
75	AAB Data
76	AAB Object
77	
78	
79	Deck Plan

 80	Spacecraft
81	Operating SOP
82	
83	
84	
85	
86	Mail
87	Cargo
88	Freight
89	Starship

90	___________
91	Imperial Calendar
92	Solomani Calendar
93	Ship Calendar
94	
95	
96	
97	
98	
99	

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 22:18:41 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: T5 The Milieux (draft)

THE MILIEUX
The universe are we know it was irrevocably influenced by a meek pastoral
intelligent race (the Droyne) which evolved some 200 parsecs from Earth more
than 300,000 years ago. The activities of these people continues to be felt
throughout time and space. Their exploits irrevocably influenced what races
live where, and what worlds rose and fell.
The history of the universe is divided into Milieux: eras or periods which in
history has unfolded. Each Milieu spans a period of a century or more and
presents a variety of opportunities for Traveller role-playing characters to
adventure and to learn.

 IMPORTANT ERAS IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNIVERSE
Era	Important Players	Terran date	Imperial date	TL
Grandfather’s Children	Droyne	300,000 BC	-300,000	
False Dawn				
The Vilani Era	Vilani	10,000 BC		
Ziru Sirka	Vilani	1500 AD		
The Solar System	Terrans	2100 AD		
Interstellar Wars	Terrans, Vilani	2200 AD		
Rule of Man	Terrans, Vilani	2500 AD		
Long Night	-	3500 AD		
Early Imperium	Syleans	4500 AD		
Aslan Border Wars.	Aslan, Imperial	4800 AD		
Vargr Campaigns	Vargr, Imperial	4850 AD		
First Survey	Imperials	5000 AD		
Barracks Emperors	Imperials	5100 AD		
Solomani Expansion.	Solomani, Imperials	5200 AD		
Psionic Suppressions	Imperials, Zhodani	5300 AD		
The Golden Age		Imperials	5600 AD		
Rebellion	Imperials	5600 AD		
Virus Era	-	5600 AD		
The New Era	-	5700 AD		
The Far Far Future	-	10,000 AD		
		
Faraway Sector	indeterminate	indeterminate		
The Core Expeditions	Zhodani			
The Game of Manipulation	Hivers			
		
Hiver / K’kree Wars				
Aslan Explorations				
The Phoenix Missions	Solomani			
Vargr Hordes	Vargr			

	Important players indicate the major races which participate and shape events
in the era. Terran date is a typical Earth-centric dates. Imperial date is the
corresponding Imperial date. TL is the typical maximum tech level in force.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 03:46:03 -0000
From: "Peter L.S. Trevor" <ptrevor.trisen@zetnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: MIL SF Reading List

Loren wrote:
> There may be room in Star Mercs for a suggested reading list of
> military oriented SF books. I have my faves (Falkenburg, Hammer,
> et alia), but I am not completely caught up with my reading list
> for the last decade, so I will need a little help.
>
> Please send me your top 10 titles (series are OK) with author's
> names and 1-2 sentences explaining how relevant to Traveller
> they are.


 1) "Damned If We Do ..." by Peter Rice (1990)
    Pub: FASA, ISBN 1-55560-099-9
    A "Renegade Legion" tie-in, but gives a good feel for grav tank
    combat.  Plus some examples of non-combat military activities.
    Easily adaptable to a Traveller campaign.

 2) "The Warrior's Apprentice" by Lois McMaster Bujold (1986)
    Pub Headline, ISBN 0-7472-3126-5
    The lead character is a noble, con-man, and merc leader.  Easily
    adaptable to a Traveller campaign.

 3) "The Vor Game" by Lois McMaster Bujold (1990)
    Pub: Baen Books, ISBN 0-671-72014-7
    ... actually all the "Miles Vorkosigan" series are useful
    (including troop drops, small unit operations, daring rescues
    ... merc unit logistics and accounting ...

 4) "Brothers In Arms" by Lois McMaster Bujold (1989)
    Pub: Baen Books, ISBN 0-671-69799-4
 5) "Cetaganda" by Lois McMaster Bujold (1996)
    Pub: Baen Books, ISBN 0-671-87744-5
 6) "Mirror Dance" by Lois McMaster Bujold (1994)
    Pub: Pan Books, ISBN 0-330-33422-0

 7) "Star Rebel" by F.M. Busby (1984)
    Pub: Orbit, ISBN 0-7088-8236-6
    Lead character goes to naval academy, becomes member of a
    military ship's crew, turns rebel and mutiny.  Focus is on
    how independant military ship interacts with planets and
    starports/downports.  Life in a military-esque corporate
    dictatorship.  Several sequels.  Easily adaptable to a
    Traveller campaign.

 8) "Tactics Of Mistake" by Gordon R. Dickson (1971)
    Pub: Sphere, ISBN 0-7221-3001-5

 9) "Ideal War" by Christopher Kubasik (1993)
    Pub: Roc, ISBN 0-451-45309-3
    A Battletech tie-in.  Gives good feel for dirty guerrilla war
    including mindset of participants.  Strip out the mechs and
    this could be Efate prior to the 5FW.

10) "On The Psychology Of Military Incompetence" by Norman Dixon
    (1976)  Pub: Pimlico, ISBN 0-7126-5889-0
    If you thought your players come up with some dumb ideas ...
    see what the 'professionals' have done over the years.
    Non-fiction ... non-SF ... but worth a browse.



Regards PLST
"Rome wasn't burned in a day."

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1142
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Sunday, November 15 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1143



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Smuggling
Re: MIL SF Reading List
Re:  Smuggling
Re: Dragon Mag Traveller Articles
Re: TNE combat (was: T4
re: Silent gauss/Laundry
Re: sexually flavoured content
Re: MIL SF Reading List
Re: Darmine
Darmine reproduction
Re: Jump limits
Re: Darmine Reproduction...
Re: Minor races 10 parsec limit
Re: Smuggling
Ship Design - Sane and Otherwise
Re: sexually flavoured content
T5 Game Structure
Darmine Question or Point
Re:MacOS8.5 & Rob Prior's Software
Re: Silent gauss/Laundry
Interplanetary Soda Pop

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 14:39:47
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

>From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Smuggling
>
>Any world with trade restrictions on either imports or exports can be
>expected to have problems with smugglers. The restrictions might be
>outright bans, high taxes, or excessive paperwork.
>Most worlds will have _some_ such trade restrictions, so smuggling is
>almost always economically viable.  So how do smugglers operate, and does
>this have anything to do with p***cy? 

As far as I see it, the Imperium doesnt ban much, except for nukes and slaves.

The main problem with smuggling is thus getting it out of the starport's
extrality fence, although this would be confused if the Starport
Administrator (1) has some sort of 'courtesy rule' with the local
authorities - you may have local police enforcing local rules within the
starport but outside the ships themselves, on the basis of an arrangement
with the starport administrator.

On the other hand, if the Imperial authorities are at all serious about
controlling piracy, then goods without paperwork are going to be suspect,
on the grounds goods stolen by pirates tend not to have paper trails
(Imperial customs, IMO, are worried about things like 'Who did you buy this
batch of x off, for how much, and have you got a receipt ?'. Too many
inadequate answers gets your ship requisitioned by the IN at standard rates
while fuller enquiries are conducted. The courtesy detail of Marines on
board while you are shuttling widgets between two Navy bases is a, well,
courtesy detail).

Therefore, smuggling and counter-smuggling would be (IMO) concentrated on
the non-mainworlds - the little in-system colonies, which, being poor, tend
to have less scruples at who they deal with.

Ian Whitchurch

(1) It has been suggested that Starport Administrator is a good job for an
Imperial Noble.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 20:51:31 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: MIL SF Reading List

Loren wrote:
> There may be room in Star Mercs for a suggested reading list of
> military oriented SF books. I have my faves (Falkenburg, Hammer,
> et alia), but I am not completely caught up with my reading list
> for the last decade, so I will need a little help.
>
> Please send me your top 10 titles (series are OK) with author's
> names and 1-2 sentences explaining how relevant to Traveller
> they are.

"How To Make War" James Dunnigan (Quill Books)

Non-SF.  Excellent resource on everything military.  Written from a
West/East perspective, it explains many basic military concepts like
logistics and force multipliers.

"Victory and Deceit: Dirty Tricks at War" James Dunnigan and Albert A. Nofi
(Quill Books)

Interesting look at the history of trickery and tactics from the Ancient
age on up.  Also covers techniques of camoflague, EW and clever leadership.

"Shooting Blanks: War Making That Doesn't Work" James Dunnigan (Quill Books)

How *not* to do it.  Looks at some of the classic errors, and catalogs the
common causes of military diasters.

"Honor Harrington Series" David Weber (Baen)

Excellent series transporting Europe of the late 18th/early 19th to the far
future.  Good map for the politics of a military or naval campaign.

"Rogue Warrior Series" Richard Marchinko

Semi-reality based series of novels by the former US Navy SEAL.  The first
book is Marchinko's autobiography, the follow-ups are exciting
techo-thrillers.  Useful for running special operations campaigns.
- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 23:36:37 -0600
From: "Christopher B. Thrash" <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re:  Smuggling

> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 15:23:24 -0700
> From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
> Subject: Re: Smuggling
> 
> This gets harder as detectors get better...tl15 densitometers will make
> it really difficult to get by with hiding it in vehicles or false
> bottoms...it depends on how closely everything is searched.
> 

Best bet:  hide the goods in something with the same density, like computer
chips in hydraulic fluid perhaps.

One useful technique:  smuggle legitimate goods.  Say you bring in 50,000
pairs of shoes, but only declare 40,000.  The other 10,000 are not only
duty-free, but can be sold tax-free off the books as well.  As long as you
(or your broker) is careful to never have more of the item on hand than you
can legitimately account for, it is very difficult to prove that there is
anything funny going on.  Most customs agents won't bother.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 01:31:03 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Dragon Mag Traveller Articles

>From: Rob Camino <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
>Subject: Dragon Mag Traveller Articles
>
>Does anyone know where I could find a biblio of Dragon mag contents. 
>Specifically looking for Traveller articles.  I sold all of mine years
>ago, but I still have "Exonidas Spaceport" and some minor stuff in
>photocopy form.  Am looking to reobtain the originals and/or add the a
>list of articles to by CT bibliography project.  Thanks.

  Dragon #76 had their first index, which covered most of the Trav articles.
Dragon #112 had a (less detailed), updated version which should have covered
pretty much all the Trav stuff they ever published - assuming that they dumped
non-TSR SF shortly thereafter(?).

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 04:46:13 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: TNE combat (was: T4

> i do, as the T4 combat system is as broken as TNE's, and the T4 task system
> was quite accurately (IMNSHO) reflected by said review.

What do you consider broken about TNE combat?  


Gary

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 19:51:21 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Silent gauss/Laundry

Loren Wiseman - GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:

>ObSWRef: A year or so ago when the SW trilogy was re-issued, they re-issued
>the ca.1/120 kit of the M. Falcon with Interior. Not only are there no
>kitchens on that pup, there are no cabins, and NO CARGO HOLD. At least not in
>the model.
>
>Strange...

The cargo holds are under the corridor accessways ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 00:04:33 +1300
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: Re: sexually flavoured content

>Putting overt sexual material in Traveller is an easy way to cop
unwanted
>heat.


And not putting it in for that reason alone is called cowardice and
prostitution of your art.

.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 11:46:58 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: MIL SF Reading List

Loren wrote:
>> There may be room in Star Mercs for a suggested reading list of
>> military oriented SF books. I have my faves (Falkenburg, Hammer,
>> et alia), but I am not completely caught up with my reading list
>> for the last decade, so I will need a little help.
>>
>> Please send me your top 10 titles (series are OK) with author's
>> names and 1-2 sentences explaining how relevant to Traveller
>> they are.

1. "Rimrunners" by CJ Cherryh
ISBN 0-450-54981-X
Tells a story of Bet Yeager, an ex-marine stranded when her ship pulled
out, forced to scrounge for jobs in a starport. Eventually she joins a
ship's crew, which turns out to be a spy vessel, and becomes involved in a
conflict with her previous unit. The story focuses on the character, but
the station details, ship details and power armour descriptions could all
be used in Traveller.

2. "Starship Troopers" by Robert A Heinlein
ISBn 0-441-78358-9
The original and best power armour novel, which blows the film away.

3. "Consider Phlebas" by Iain M Banks
ISBN unknown - my copy has been borrowed.
Tells the story of a small strike team sent to recover a powerful AI
supercomputer from the forbidden planet were it crash landed during a war.
The team behaves like many Traveller groups, and the planet is interdicted
like a Red Zone.

4. "The Reality Dysfunction" by Peter F Hamilton.
ISBN 0-330-34032-8
Set in the Confederation, this novel seems heavily influenced by Traveller
- - ships have jump drives, gauss weapons are common, and the Confederation
navy rules the space between stars. There is a litte more biotechnology
than the clasic Traveller setting, but there are many memorable scenes both
in space and on planet involving small unit combat as well as some
excellent starship scenes. The crew of the 'Lady Macbeth' could almost be a
typical Traveller group.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 02:45:54 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Darmine

"Carlos Alos-Ferrer" <Carlos.Alos-Ferrer@univie.ac.at>

> >Of course, their appearance and their culture make the Darmine 
> >excellent targets for a slavery ring catering to interstellar 
> >pedophilic humanophiles.  (Adventure idea...)

The Darmine are, in fact, only somewhat androgynous in appearance.

> >In Service,
> >Jason
> 
> Nice idea. Peter is roleplaying a female Darmine in my game... 
> thanks! ;->

Yes Jason, thanks so very, very much....

Carlos - In Juloa's defense I should point out that almost nobody Beyond
the Extents will know about Darmine customs.  So therefore the odds of
her being kidnapped by sex slavers should be no greater than the odds
that any attractive, exotic looking, captivating public performer, green
haired woman, with no family to miss her, might be kidnapped by sex
slavers.  [Er wait a second what I meant to say is that no one would
wan't to kidnap Juloa because she would be too annoying.  Yes that's my
story and I'm sticking too it.]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 01:04:13 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Darmine reproduction

Date sent:      	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 02:49:50 -0900
From:           	Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>

>"Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz> wrote

>[Warning - This post contains frank discussion of human reproduction.]

>> One slight problem. Human reproduction doesn't quite work that way. 
>> Firstly the females will still be releasing only one egg per cycle and 
>> no amount of extra bonking is going aid in its survival against the
>> nanitites etc.

>The protective measures will destroy many fertilized eggs before they
>can implant in the ovarioan walls.  They may also destroy sperm before
>they reach the egg or may even destoy the egg itself before fertiliztion
>(the egg only has half the womans DNA and is therefore "foreign").  Once
>they implant the measures should recognize it as part of the womans
>body.  Therefore fewer egg/sperm unions will result in pregnancy. 
>Therefore in order to ensure an adequate number of children their need
>to be more opportunities for each egg released to have a chance to be
>fertalized. That means more sex.  For the Darmine the big question is if
>implantation will occur in the first place.

Again, no. The embryo becomes even _more_ foreign after fertilisation. It now 
has a different DNA sequence and should by all rights be recognised by the 
mothers own immune system as a foreign body and attacked. What happens 
is that somehow (as yet a complete mystery to science) the mothers immune 
system is suppressed in relation to the embryo alone (this is one of the biggest 
mysteries of the human body). It could be that what ever mechanism protects 
the embryo from the mothers own immune system also protects the embryo. 
Hey here you have a possible key as to how the Ancients protected the 
Darmine in the first place. The Ancients boosted the Darmine immunoresponse 
to cope with the extra pressure and as a consequence the embryo is 
safeguarded by the normal mechanisms. This will also protect the unfertilised 
egg but will massively attack the sperm, leading to your drop in fertility.

>To put it in game mechanics terms I would say that (in a situation where
>another woman would conceive) a Darmine woman needs to crit fail a End
>(HT in GTrav) to represent the nanites not destroying the sperm, the
>egg, or both.

>> Secondly  (and far more importantly), this will actually _decrease_ 
>> male fertility! After ejaculation, the male sperm count takes some 
>> time (days) to build back up. Now you have the Darmine having 
>> intercourse several times a day (10-15 times 
>> the "norm") 

>Possibly I should drop this to five times the norm or (less pruriently)
>just note that they have a very high sex drive.

I'd go for the latter, less chance of getting things wrong :*>

>> and this will dramatically lower male sperm counts leading 
>> to a major _drop_ in fertility.

>Well my understanding of Solomani reprodution was that the female was
>sometimes fertilized with sperm that were many hours old.  The body of a
>Darmine woman would (probably) already have eliminated these foreign
>bodies.  Therefore in order to be impregnated she would need to have had
>sex closer to the time of ovulation.  I am assuming that (with the TL 0
>they had after the final war) the Darmine could not tell when their
>women were fertile (I know some low tech cultures had some semi reliable
>rules of thumb but I am assuming the Darmine did not).  Therefore in
>order to ensure pregnancy the female would need to have had sex more
>recently.

Good point, if the protective meassures are attacking the sperm, then the 
"window" for conception will be shortened.

How about this for an idea. The protective measures boosted the 
immunoresponse which lead to the shortened "window" as the sperm were 
attacked and consequent drop in fertility. To counter this the Ancients simply 
increased libido to increase the chance of intercourse during the window (an 
easy solution). This then lead to the sperm count problem, to which the 
Ancients again adopted a "quick fix" and simply geneered the the time required 
for the male to rebuild sperm down or geneered the male sperm count up.

Now if you go with the latter (just increase male sperm count), you will get 
some very interesting effects on Darmine/Non-Darmine mating. When a 
Darmine male has sex with a Non-Darmine female you will have a greater 
chance of conception. That could lead to all sorts of interesting effects :*>.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 13:05:50 +0000
From: John Wood <John@elvw.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Jump limits

Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE> wrote,
> On Wed, 11 Nov 1998, SD Mooney wrote:
> > Aren't most of the worlds in the Traveller universe within 100D of
> > this galaxy's mass?
>
> IMTU this restriction belongs to single bodys with enough density, not
> accumulations of bodys with a centre of gravity.
> An asteroid belt would also be such an accumulation, but its density
> is too low to have effects as a whole, so only the single asteroids
> would 'bounce off' the Jumpspace Exit that is to open at their
> position.

This question sparked some ideas; here's an alternative explanation.  I
recommend taking a look at past discussions, especially some of Peter
L.S. Trevor's <ptrevor.trisen@zetnet.co.uk> ideas - search for "Jumping
from zero planetary diameters (long)" in mid-October.

Technobabble:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Using one version of the standard handwave, "diameters" is an
approximation for "gravitational potential".  My reading of this is that
you cannot be too "deep" in a gravity well in order to jump safely out
of that well.

The key aspect of this interpretation is jumping *out of the well*.
Jumps within the well are not a problem - in effect, ambient gravitation
is irrelevant.

Consequences:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Standard Jump:  In order to safely jump from one star system to another,
you need to be 100D from the star as well as any local bodies (planets,
planetoids, etc).  No real difference from the way many of us play it.

Macro-Jump: A ship with jump-700,000 (if it existed) would be able to
jump safely to the Andromeda Galaxy.  However, it would first have to
move outward until its gravitational potential with respect to the Milky
Way matched the 100D rule, and it would then have to work its way in to
Andromeda from a similar distance.

Micro-Jump: Jumps within a star's gravity well only have to take into
account the *relative* gravitational potential of entry and exit point.
So, a jump from one point to another, both 0.1AU from the star, would be
completely safe.  Jumping from Mercury's orbit to the Oort cloud,
however, would be very dangerous (if possible at all).

Nano-jump: It should be possible to jump safely from one point on a
planet's surface to another of similar altitude.  Safely, that is, in
terms of the jump itself - depending on how you deal with conservation
of momentum you could come out at half a mile per second relative to the
ground (see Larry Niven's article "On the theory and practice of
teleportation")!

More random thoughts
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This idea differs from PLST's "gravitational stress" version, though the
calculations are pretty much identical.  The two can be brought closer
together by modifying one of PLST's definitions thus:

   Minimum safe distance to initiate Jump is any point where the
   gravitational stress factor is less than 1pS greater than the minimum
   gsf for the jump route.

This is a sort of topological view of jump - it depends on the "surface"
of space between entry and exit.

Anyway, enough for now.  Hopefully there's some food for thought there.

Regards,

John
 
John G. Wood  |  john@elvw.demon.co.uk  |  Oxford, United Kingdom
IMTU tc+ tm+ tn t4(+) ru--(+) ge 3i+ jt au- st ls+ hi++ so- zh+ pi+ jd++
Various Traveller IS Forms: http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 04:50:24 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Darmine Reproduction...

"Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>

> Other than the noted objections I like what you have written a lot.
> What is the average tech level of the Darmine worlds?  If it is say 
> below TL-7 that could explain why they still have a birthrate problem. 
> Any culture with advanced medical facilities (say TL-12+) could easily 
> assist a couple, either one or both of whom was Darmine, to concieve 
> anytime they wanted to.  Lets hear it for advanced medical treatments.

In the case of most human races this would be true but Darmine medicine
(especially pharmacology) is made significantly more complicated by the
fact that their bodies will break down and destroy and medicine that is
put into it.  This makes fertiltiy tratment nigh impossible without
genetic engineering.

The Darmine Cultural Region occupies subsectors J, K, O, and P of
Zarushagar Sector.  It is mostly Average Stellar, with some Low Stellar,
some High Stellar, and relatively few lower tech worlds.  According to
the (only semi canonical) DGP data the Hi Pop planets of the region have
the following stats:

Liasdi  0928 A897944-C    Hi                 404 Im F8 D 
Ishag   1323 B525966-A  N Hi In              515 Im G1 VI 
Lianma  1727 A1009A7-F    Hi In Va Na        204 Im F0 D 
Laner   2230 D465984-9    Hi                 404 Im G2 V 
Adni    2330 B300A98-E    Hi In Va Na        122 Im F3 D 
Oyko    1835 D1009A7-A    Hi In Va Na        700 Im G3 D M2 D 
Epshu   1933 D787944-A    Hi                 414 Im F8 D M6 D 
Udiid   2335 C756AA6-C    Hi                 205 Im K4 D 
World   2740 D766AA8-8  S Hi                 100 Im K3 D 
[note that according to The Atlas of the the Imperium, pg 21, the name
for this planet is listed as "world" (not in all caps like the other Hi
Pop planetary names) which tends to suggest this is an error]
Zimila  2838 C6449CB-C    Hi In              113 Im G1 V M9 D 
Kees    2937 A527986-E    Hi In              424 Im M1 V M5 D
Gaidraa 3136 B5279A9-C  S Hi In              400 Im K3 D M5 D
Ermi    3139 E200986-8    Hi In Va Na        203 Im F3 V 

This list has a total population of over 77 billion (1 x 10^9).
Tech level breakdown is as follows

	TL	Pop (billions)
	F	 2
	E	14
	D	-
	C	29
	B	-
	A	16
	9	 4
	8	12 

So as you see the Darmine have mostly Average Stellar Tech Levels.

The Darmine have never "solved" their low fertility rates because:
1) 	It never crossed their mind to do so.
2)	They believe that they are _supposed_to_be_ the way they are
3)	If they fixed it they would have a rather alarming population 
	problem in short order
4)	Their current state is due to Ancient technology and they 		probably
_couldn't_ fix it  

No one else has ever fixed it for them because:
1)	There is no demand (and thus no pay)
2)	Darmine can be annoying as hell and few people would be thrilled 	by
their population suddenly starting to grow exponentially
3)	The Third Imperium is not that big on genetic engineering anyway
4)	Their current state is due to Ancient technology and they 		probably
_couldn't_ fix it

If it was "fixed" the heavy metal tolerance would be lost too.  If that
happened their own mothers blood would poison them.  The air of their
homeworld would poison them.  Their mothers milk would poison them.  All
their food would poison them.  It is not worth it.

Now for a mixed couple living outside the Darmine cultural region this
might be different.  For example the first culturally Darmine PC I ever
generated was only half Darmine genetically.  One of his parents was
pure Darmine from the Darmine Cultural Region and the other was of mixed
Vilani/other ancestry and Vilani cultural heritage.  However he was
conceived in a lab.  On the other hand as they were both female all
their children would have to have been conceived in a lab anyway.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 09:54:35 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Minor races 10 parsec limit

>A good adventure hook is the usefullness of bureacrats and administrators
>from far away ... they bring new perspectives, arent linked in to any
>local
>power networks, and nobody local knows the exact way they can be got at.
>
>These sort of 'mercenary administrators' were used in Mogul India, and
>occasionally in China and the Ottoman Empire as well.

Had a player do that once.

"Have laptop, will travel"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 10:10:59 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

>Therefore, smuggling and counter-smuggling would be (IMO) concentrated on
>the non-mainworlds - the little in-system colonies, which, being poor, tend
>to have less scruples at who they deal with.

Being poor could preclude the outworld from being the direct buyer of the
smuggled goods, but that doesn't mean the buyer wouldn't be picking the
goods up there, forging papers, and sending them on to the mainword to his
own private landing zone.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 11:16:54 -0500
From: Andy Slack <AndySlack@compuserve.com>
Subject: Ship Design - Sane and Otherwise

Hey Ditzie, welcome back! Place just wasn't the same without you.
Andy

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 09:58:39 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: sexually flavoured content

At 12:04 AM 11/16/98 +1300, you wrote:
>
>>Putting overt sexual material in Traveller is an easy way to cop
>>unwanted heat.

>And not putting it in for that reason alone is called cowardice and
>prostitution of your art.

I don't think there is any prohibition about show emotional connections, so
a plot line involving a Romeo and Juliet situation would be fair.

What I see a gratuitous sexual content would be titillating situations and
images that are there for no other reason than to appeal to our baser
instincts.  Consider the difference between the films "The American
President" and "Porky's".  The first covers a growing romance, and includes
a very sexual scene done in a very tasteful, discreet manner.  (All the
"good stuff" happens off-screen).  The second is a mess where (mostly)
female body parts are shown off simply as if to say "Tits!  Look!!"

Marc can correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt that a well written romantic
situation would be rejected out of hand.  And unless one is writing
pornography, I can't see any situation in a RPG that would call for graphic
descriptions of sexual activity.

(For a look at what you can get away with, take a look at the illo of the
messy starship interior in Behind the Claw.. take a *real* close look at
the pack of smokes on the table...)
- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 13:21:13 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: T5 Game Structure

DO I NEED ALL THESE BOOKS?
	Traveller provides a wealth of information, background, and science to role-
players. Because adventures can be set anywhere in the long history of
Traveller, the Star System shows which books are suitable for use with each
other.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 12:26:33 -0600
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net>
Subject: Darmine Question or Point

Have the Darmine racial stats been done for GURPS:Traveller?

GURPS has several advantages/disadvantages that I belive adequately
describe the Darmine *social/sexual* situtations. On being lecherousness
other being sex appeal.

An interesting web page for more detailed sexual things for GURPS is:
http://www.eskimo.com/~vecna/gurpsex.htm

By the way I must have missed it but do you have a web page with detailed
info on the Darmine?

Sinbad Sam
Sinbad Sam
"Black Curtain" Rod Holder...
AI Virus inferior races(Aslan, Humaniti, Kkree, Droyne) Interfacer
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
sinbad@ignore.hex.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 15:59:42 -0500
From: "Alan M. Nuss" <amnuss@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re:MacOS8.5 & Rob Prior's Software

I upgraded to OS 8.5 last month and I haven't had any problems with IGS2
Demo
or the full version of Infini-V.

Alan

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 21:23:09 +0000
From: Matt Clonfero <Matt-C@aetherem.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Silent gauss/Laundry

Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:

>Or, just stuff your dirty clothes in your duffel and wash them when you get to 
>port.  Every character I've ever played, and every character I've ever reffed, 
>had at least 2 weeks' worth of clothes in their duffel for just this purpose.  
>And there's such a thing as 'room service' at spacers' hostels in whatever TU 
>I've played that took care of laundry.

This is called the two-bag system of submarine laundry. You take all
your kit aboard in one bag, labelled clean; and a spare bag, labelled
dirty. As you wear your clothes, youplace the used items in the dirty
bag, taking new ones from the clean bag. When the dirty bag is full and
the clean bag empty - reverse the labels.

ObTraveller: Starships *can't* smell as bad as the inside of a
submarine, can they?

Aetherem Vincere
Matt
- -- 
Matt Clonfero: Matt-C@aetherem.demon.co.uk    | To err is human, To forgive
My employer and I have a deal - I don't speak | is not Air Force Policy.
for them, and they don't speak for me.        |   -- Anon, ETPS.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 17:20:14 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: Interplanetary Soda Pop

I was at the Smithsonian Air & Space Museum, they had some 
astronaut food containers in a display. I was a bit surprised to see
a Coca-Cola can and a Pepsi can, both rigged out for safe drinking
in a microgravity environment - some kind of valve on the lid. I guess
carbonated beverages _can_ be consumed in zero-G, no matter what
Cyberpunk's space supplements say. ;)

They also had a "Stellarium" - it represented a 100 light year diameter
tube, centered around Sol. They were using some sort of fiber optics
to make points of light for stars, with some pointer lights to show
things like the direction to the galactic core, Alpha Centauri, Wolf-Rayat,
things like that. The effect was very well done, made me think of walking
around a holotank on a starship bridge.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1143
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Monday, November 16 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1144



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Ships Laundry
Re: MIL SF Reading List
Re: sexually flavored content
X-TEK "Bat of Hell" Missile system
Re: Silent gauss/Laundry
NPC Quick Gen
Smuggling
Re: NPC Quick Gen
Re: T5 Game Structure
An amusing Aside
My T5 wish list
First Contact future history
Re: My T5 wish list
Re: "Exonidas Spaceport"
GURPS Traveller shipbuilding tip
Re: sexually flavoured content
Re: Smuggling
Re: My T5 wish list
Re: MIL SF Reading List
Re TNE, T4

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 17:23:13 EST
From: RSpake2064@aol.com
Subject: Ships Laundry

Well,

with the current thread of the Ship's Laundry and what happens with dirty
clothes i decided to post how i handle it in my games.

Each Stateroom has a refresher (a futuristic bathroom/lavitory/watercloset)
that contains a shower that has a switch for water or sonic for personal
grooming, a Toilt/Watercloset for sophants bodily waste disposal (folds out
form the bulkhead where it is stored), and a clothing refresher.

the clothing refresher sonicly bombards the clothing to remove dirt and other
debries that have gotten caught in the fibers of the clothes.  more complex
Clothes Refreshers utilise steam (with recycled water form the waste form the
shower) to also remove both the unwanted dirt particles as well as the anoying
smell....

there are other things as well, as the Steawards locker that has a more
complex clothing refresher that has a small steam press that allows the
passengers clothes to be pressed as well as cleaned.

richard

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 15:20:33 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: MIL SF Reading List

>3. "Consider Phlebas" by Iain M Banks
>ISBN unknown - my copy has been borrowed.
>Tells the story of a small strike team sent to recover a powerful AI
>supercomputer from the forbidden planet were it crash landed during a war.
>The team behaves like many Traveller groups, and the planet is interdicted
>like a Red Zone.

"behaves like many Traveller groups" = "are a bunch of bloodthirsty 
mercs/pirates/semi-criminal opportunistic scum in a battered old starship
with assorted guns". I was struck by the resemblence myself...

Banks' other books - though brilliant - aren't very Travellerish, as they're
mostly set in The Culture, a (roughly) TL-20 to 21 civilization. (Advanced
AIs (incredibly advanced), 30-km spaceships, mini-ringworlds, teleportation,
genetic engineering...) The Culture is in the background of Consider Phlebas,
engaged in a war against an equally-powerful non-human civilization; it 
provides an interesting viewpoint for the characters (with much lower TL and
resources) scurrying around the edges of a (literally) planet-smashing war.
(My second-favourite scene in Phlebas involves watching a Culture warship
carve apart a million-mile mini-ringworld to make a political point.) (Not
really a spoiler, since the characters arrive at the ringworld know it's going
to be evacuated and destroyed, and are trying to scavenge some big lasers
that were abandoned...)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 15:22:05 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: sexually flavored content

Marc wrote
>Without any statement from me, then every artist and every writer put in his
>or her own ideas as to sexual content. The problem comes up more in art than
>in text. Without direction, artists put in whatever they want, and from time
>o time, they make the drawings suggestive or downright sexual even though it
>has no application to subject being illustrated.

With the policy explained this way, I agree with it a hundred percent; 
keeping Bad Space Babe art out of Traveller seems like a wholly admirable
goal.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 18:40:45 -0500
From: cmdrx <cmdrx@magicnet.net>
Subject: X-TEK "Bat of Hell" Missile system

Greetings!

What do you get when you mix a mass driver with a missile rack launch
system?

You get the X-TEK/Maximus "Bat of Hell" missile system!

This system takes a standard missile rack, but adds a magneto-gravatic
accelerator to the launch tube, the effect is high initial velocity and
consequently higher kinetic energy.  Apply more thrust when you light
the missile and cause downright EVIL levels of damage to your target! 
Add a penetrator, or fusion warhead to add insult to injury!  Amuse your
friends, destroy your enemies, fun for the whole crew!

But wait, that's not all!

For a limited time only, get our SmartBat(tm) AI system included with
your first purchase.
This computer system has deck plans from hundreds of standard ships.  As
it penetrates the hull, the missile with this system will then plow
trough the ship looking for a location specified by the missile gunner. 
This can be anywhere on the ship, provided it's on the ship plans in the
computers memory be it Captains room, engineering, the bridge, or our
personal favorite, the captain's "throne".  Once at a location, it will
hover in place and count down a few seconds giving the person(s) time to
pray to whatever gods they worship. Then it explodes, possibly
destroying the ship.  Loads of fun for all ages!  Guaranteed to break
the ice at parties!

C'mon down to your closest X-TEK or MIDI outlet nearest you!


This bit of insanity was brought to you by the Letter X!

+---------------------------------+
|Go in peace,                     |
|and know that my snipers         |
|can drop you in a moment's notice|
+---------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:09:45 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Silent gauss/Laundry

Matt Clonfero wrote:
> 
> This is called the two-bag system of submarine laundry. You take all
> your kit aboard in one bag, labelled clean; and a spare bag, labelled
> dirty. As you wear your clothes, youplace the used items in the dirty
> bag, taking new ones from the clean bag. When the dirty bag is full and
> the clean bag empty - reverse the labels.
> 
> ObTraveller: Starships *can't* smell as bad as the inside of a
> submarine, can they?
> 

In CT the Scout/Courier had a bug in its air filtration system.  They
stank.

The details were in Traders and Gunboats, IIRC.

Alan Bradley.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 20:03:02 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: NPC Quick Gen

Attention to quick NPC creation.  >>

>Every one of the character types in the draft Char Gen which was
>posted several months ago has a portion devoted to quick gen of
>NPCs.

I've been lurking long enough that I should have seen it,
then...maybe I was skimming too fast. Are there TML archives to
search, or does someone have an approximate digest number so I
can see if I managed to save it?
  

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 20:03:05 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Smuggling

>As for _smuggling_ well, I suspect there's going to be little
>variation from today.

>You either a) sneak it in under their noses, b) bring it in
>where and when they're not looking, or c) bribe someone to let
>it through.

Or sneaking it _out_. The US doesn't worry much about that,
(except for military hardware), but I know of others that have
had or do have restrictions on export of animals and plants,
technology, and people. 

Sneaking it in/out or bribery can be effective, but for more
drama, I was thinking about b).

I can think of three or four ways for smugglers to make life hard
for customs forces.  What kind of TL and level of development
would be needed to shut down smuggling to or from orbital space?

When, besides in the cases of slavery or nuclear weapons, would
the Imperium get involved in anti-smuggling efforts?
  

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 20:36:18 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: NPC Quick Gen

In a message dated 11/15/98 7:04:10 PM Central Standard Time,
Sapience@compuserve.com writes:

<< 
 I've been lurking long enough that I should have seen it,
 then...maybe I was skimming too fast. Are there TML archives to
 search, or does someone have an approximate digest number so I
 can see if I managed to save it?
  >>

Posted was the wrong word. I said that CharGen was available, and if you
wanted a zipped file with the draft charts for T5 chargen, you could email a
request to 

FarFuture@AOL.com

You can still do that.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 18:03:22 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: T5 Game Structure

At 01:21 PM 11/15/98 EST, you wrote:
>DO I NEED ALL THESE BOOKS?
>	Traveller provides a wealth of information, background, and science >to
role-players. Because adventures can be set anywhere in the long history 
>of Traveller, the Star System shows which books are suitable for use with 
>each other.

This why I'd like to see the basic rules book be rules heavy and very
setting light.  IMHO, the basic T5 book should cover the basics of
everything, with 2-3 page descriptions of the various planned setting
books.  That way, a solid system of basics arrive early.

The various setting books can then focus heavily on what the characters
find in each milieu, along with whatever modifications are required (ex: in
the Interstellar Wars book, the TL ceiling is 11 for both sides, and so on.)

My ideas for what the "core books" beyond the rules should be are simple:

An Armory, containing weapons from TL 1 to 16+, along with the expanded
combat rules.

A Starship Operations book, with all the fiddly bits about running (not
designing) starships, along with the expalnations of how things are
supposed to work.  This would answer the questions like "can I EVA in jump?"

A World Design book, giving assitance to the Referee on designing worlds
for adventure.  Not just more random tables, but guidance on making a world
live.

"FFS3", or whatever it will be called.  The gearhead bible, with a
comprehensive, consistant set of guidelines for designing vehicles, ships,
and weapons.  A nice addition would be an essay on what things will look
and feel like, and one on why TL advancement drops off so quickly after TL8.

These five books would be the complete Traveller.  The setting books would
be optional additions for those who want a pregenerated setting.  The basic
rules would be Imperium orientated, but not straight-jacketed into a single
Milieu.

All of this is IMHO, of course.
- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:28:00 +1000 (EST)
From: JEFFREY MALONE <j1.malone@student.qut.edu.au>
Subject: An amusing Aside

Got this barely relevant, but amusing piece from the NPS C4I-Pro mailing
list:

"Norwegian submarines have discovered an unexpected problem while diving
off the Norwegian coast: the grunting noise from swarms of lovesick cod
overburdens the sonar equipment.  Thereby navigation in Norwegian waters
is almost impossible, said the Defense Department yesterday."

I wonder if SDB's hiding in gas giants that support life-forms might
suffer from the same problems?

Cheers

Jeff Malone (aka Academician Boris Kalashnikov)

*******************************************************************************
Jeff Malone
PhD Student - Department of Justice Studies, Kelvin Grove Campus, QUT
              Kelvin Grove  QLD  4052
Phone:        (07) 3864-3597
Fax:          (07) 3864-3991/2 
*******************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 16:44:08 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: My T5 wish list

Since Marc appears to at least be listening to peoples opinions on what they 
want (the is a *very* good thing); I'd like to add my $0.02.

Firstly the 'core' books
1  T5. This should be the only book you absolutely have to buy. You should be
    able to pick up this book and run enjoyable games for the rest of your life
    with this alone. It should have all the basic mechanics and set the
    'house' mileau (the one which any TNS entries on the FarFutures website
    will support). It should have a simple set of chargen, worldgen, ship building
    combat etc rules. It should also give a timeline and thumbnails of every
    mileau.
2  T5 FFS. This should be the technical 'bible' of Traveller. It should be
    gearheads heaven, covering the construction of everything at any TL (hey
    this is a wish list after all). It should be useable with any mileau.
3  T5 Mercenary. This should have lists of weapons for all TL and an advanced
    combat system, along with rules for large scale military campaigns.
4  T5 High Guard. This should cover all aspects of space travel. It should cover
    starports, space travel and combat in depth. It should have a detailed
    space combat system and cover running a naval campaign
5  T5 Faraway Sector. This should cover the physical aspects of creating
    worlds in detail. It should allow the creation of physically realistic worlds for
    any Mileau (of neccessity it would have to ignore the social aspects, which
    would be mileau dependent). It should also give guidelines for grow your own
    minor race.

Race books
Each of the major races should have a book (or more realistically half a book) 
detailing them (this includes detailing the Solomani, Vilani and Zhodani)

Mileau books
1   Each mileau should have a basic sourcebook covering the period in depth
    and setting a 'house' sector (preferably the same sector should be used
    for every mileau, but again this is a wish list). It should have detailed chargen
    rules and setting dependent material
2   Sector books. These should take one sector from a mileau and cover it in
    depth, giving chargen, aliens, equipment etc.

General things
I would like to see at least one minor human race and one sector 'ringfenced' 
from any official development, so that individual referees can detail it as they 
see fit.
Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 15:02:47 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: First Contact future history

Hi!  I've been thinking about the future history for the First Contact
milieu that Marc has proposed for T5.

What I would like to propose is that the actual details of what Earth is
like, and how it got that way should be left fairly sketchy, and that the
background mostly concentrate on the off-Earth settlements, like Luna.

My reasons are as follows:

1.  Any detailed future history is likely to suffer from the Twilight:2000
problem, where changes in the real world will make it impossible/silly. 
Instead, it should be left "flexible", and should focus mainly on the
period after about 2050 or so.

2.  Any near future history will necessarily deal with issues that people
have strong real world opinions about.  Even a purely "technical"
orientation to "history" writing will involve making judgements about what
is possible and likely.  The result will be some serious pushing of
people's buttons, which should be avoidable.

Examples:  Does Australia become a republic?  Does the UK?  Is there a
united Ireland?  Does Scotland secede?  Quebec?  The Basque country?  Does
Puerto Rico become a state of the US?  What happens in Israel/Palestine? 
Does the European Union work?  Doesn't any country in Europe ever elect an
anti-EU government?  What happens to Cuba? Mexico? etc etc....

The fudge is, as I suggested above, that the material should focus on Luna,
and further out.  Earth can't be entirely avoided, but should be approached
sparsely.  Broadly, each referee should be able to design their own
history, according to their own prejudices, within the very broad elbow
room of canon.

Published Earth-based scenarios will of course exist, and this is where the
main problem lies.  Its only Earth where you will be able to find a whole
bunch of terrain types, such as jungles, unless Mars gets terraformed very
early, which sounds a bit iffy.  If it wasn't that people would want the
exotic locations, you could get by by defining certain areas as open for
development (the US, say) while leaving the rest of the world for indulging
personal preferences.  Of course, you can't really fence areas off like
that - the USA, for example, borders on Canada, (Quebec??), Mexico and
Cuba (kind of).  You would need some idea of what was on the other side of
the border in these cases.

Of course, all of this could just plain be ignored, and the future defined
by fiat, but the objections are still there.  

I'm not really sure what the answers are, but at least I've pointed out the
questions!

Alan Bradley.
Brisbane, Australia.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 23:06:29 -0800
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: My T5 wish list

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:

> 2  T5 FFS. This should be the technical 'bible' of Traveller. It should be
>     gearheads heaven, covering the construction of everything at any TL (hey
>     this is a wish list after all). It should be useable with any mileau.

And any other design system should be an easier, less detailed version of  this system.

I want to see something like the Star Wars game system, where, if you know the basic task
mechanic, you know everything--personal combat, starship combat, captial ship combat,
vehicle combat.

All design systems should grow from the same design philosophy too.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 22:41:40 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: "Exonidas Spaceport"

>From: Rob Camino <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
>Subject: Dragon Mag Traveller Articles
>
>Does anyone know where I could find a biblio of Dragon mag contents. 
>Specifically looking for Traveller articles.  I sold all of mine years
>ago, but I still have "Exonidas Spaceport" and some minor stuff in
...

  Actually the plot in Exonidas might be of use to G:T refs looking for
something other than (but similar to) the 5FW to hang a campaign on. In
addition to the fairly obvious "massive strategic exchange begins while
you're on-world - definitely a Bad War", you can always further victimize
the players by having them on-world beforehand (they're somewhat unlikely
to be aware of the #59 articles plot, after all) as mercenaries, and let 
them see things evolve without making it apparent that the big drop is
coming.

  A real sleaze could even have them connected to the Big Oops, or make
them _think_ they are, or have others believe it - or any combination
thereof. The aftermath would also have a variety of opportunities for
non-terrorism/crime-related adventures, possibly even some of an altruistic
or mission-of-mercy nature, but some might not consider that real Traveller :)

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 00:40:01 -0500
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: GURPS Traveller shipbuilding tip

While perusing the GURPSNet archive at http://www.io.com/GURPSnet/ , I came
upon a useful little document that provided a formula that might be of use
to you GURPS Traveller shipbuilders out there. I would love to credit the
author, but cannot find his or her name anywhere on the document.

The formula allows you to estimate the mass of a vehicle, which of course
is useful for estimating how many tons of thrust you need to attain a
particular acceleration. It works thusly:

Maximum Load = 60 * FSM (Frame Strength Modifier) * ESA (Estimated Surface
Area)

This formula assumes a Structural Health of 10. Structural Health (or HT)
is found in GURPS Vehicles, and is usually 10. The ships I checked in GURPS
Traveller actually came out to around 9.5, but that's not significant, and
10 can be used, as it will give estimates of loaded mass that will likely
be higher than what you'll actually get, thus yielding somewhat higher
accelerations, but you can get in the ballpark with it.

Since the hulls in GURPS Traveller are built with medium frame strengths,
the FSM is 1. The formula gives maximum load in pounds, not tons. Thus for
the purposes of GURPS Traveller, the formula can be:

0.03 tons * Surface Area = Estimated loaded weight

The original document is "insideout", and is highly useful; I reccomend
checking it out. Also while there, check out MALloyd's suggested additions
and changes to GURPS Vehicles 2; some of these include technologies highly
applicable to Traveller (a couple even mention Traveller in the
descriptions), and there is a section which addresses the sensors issue,
including suggested fixes that might please some of you.

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:30:10 +1300
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: Re: sexually flavoured content

>>>Putting overt sexual material in Traveller is an easy way to cop
>>>unwanted heat.
>
>>And not putting it in for that reason alone is called cowardice
and
>>prostitution of your art.
>
>I don't think there is any prohibition about show emotional
connections, so
>a plot line involving a Romeo and Juliet situation would be fair.
>
>What I see a gratuitous sexual content would be titillating
situations and
>images that are there for no other reason than to appeal to our
baser
>instincts.

While I fully support Marc's right to control such things in items
licensed from him, just as Disney does the same (if Marc only wants
to appeal to grade-schoolers that's his look -out, thing is
grade-schoolers don't usually have much money), my main problem was
with the reasoning that "avoiding heat" is an acceptable reason for
banning such content.

This is the classic "thin end of the wedge", resulting in
self-perpetuating censorship and a continuing lack of appropriate
talk about and exposure of a very important part of our lives.

Science Fiction is supposed to be an area where people aren't scared
of sexuality,
where people can write things that would not be acceptable in normal
fictions because they are too close to home, where the boundaries
are pushed, not contracted.

I also agree with the person who made a comment similar to
"discussing interesting new ways to kill people is acceptable but
talking about an enjoyable fuck isn't."

It's not a specific problem with Traveller or Marc, most Americans
and American culture
have the same problem, I just expected better of those involved in
science fiction.

>Consider the difference between the films "The American
>President" and "Porky's".  The first covers a growing romance, and
includes
>a very sexual scene done in a very tasteful, discreet manner.  (All
the
>"good stuff" happens off-screen).  The second is a mess where
(mostly)
>female body parts are shown off simply as if to say "Tits!  Look!!"

Which implies you think there's something wrong with looking at tits
?

What is disturbing about Porky's is not that it shows tits, but that
it's curently more "acceptable" to do such a movie,  than one that
just shows nice tits, with an appropriate commentary discussing
their individual features and benefits (preferably, it would also
discuss / show the rest of the person behind the breasts, I'm not
that interested in floating, unnattached mammary glands ), without
all the teen-age "jokes" and innuendo.

>Marc can correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt that a well written
romantic
>situation would be rejected out of hand.

I would be surprised if it was.
Romance and sex are two completely different things.

>And unless one is writing pornography, I can't see any situation in
a RPG that would call >for graphic descriptions of sexual activity.


I agree that there is unlikley to be any requirement for extremely
detailed descriptions, (and I know few people who could be involved
in such a game without being highly embarrased )  but we're not
talking about that. We're talking about no depictions or
descriptions of _any_ sexual activity or anything that could be
called "titilating"

( Have to be careful there, a picture of a Hiver may be extremely
titillating to
  another Hiver but mean nothing to an untrained human....  )

And this in a universe where there are supposed to be mercenaries,
decadent nobles and (in some places) slavery. According to the
guidelines a picture of the staff or interior of  a whorehouse or a
believable piece of advertising  for an LSP weapon or vehicle
complete with bimbo in swimsuit leaning over the bonnet would be
rejected, even though they are all acceptable images in modern
media, and even though the lack of them is completely _unbelievable_
given the described Imperium.

Another example, what if Imperial fashion went through a "breast"
phase like our fashion industry is currently in, where fashionable
designs expose one or more breasts ?

And another, the description of Vargr doesn't include much about
their sexual practices,
but if Vargr practices are anything like what they are suppposed to
be descended
from, it should be damn obvious to all Travellers. But we're not
even told that they're
_not_ like that. Not that I mind, it means IMTU I can have the Vargr
acting like
dogs in all ways and not be contradicted by the dreaded Canon.

>(For a look at what you can get away with, take a look at the illo
of the
>messy starship interior in Behind the Claw.. take a *real* close
look at
>the pack of smokes on the table...)


That's supposed to be an Imperial Starburst isn't it ?
:-)

BTW, the illos in many early CT licensed products _are_ pretty
titillating anyway,
have a look at "Action Aboard" for example.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:05:26 +1300
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

>Or sneaking it _out_. The US doesn't worry much about that,
>(except for military hardware), but I know of others that have
>had or do have restrictions on export of animals and plants,
>technology, and people.


Or cultural icons.
Currently New Zealand prohibits the export of Maori artworks and
such without the permission of the local iwi.

>Sneaking it in/out or bribery can be effective, but for more
>drama, I was thinking about b).

>
>I can think of three or four ways for smugglers to make life hard
>for customs forces.  What kind of TL and level of development
>would be needed to shut down smuggling to or from orbital space?


Just what we've got now, really, stuff doing re-entry is pretty easy
to detect, though _policing_ it may be difficult, it's probably less
difficult than policing a sea coast.

>When, besides in the cases of slavery or nuclear weapons, would
>the Imperium get involved in anti-smuggling efforts?


When it found it expedient to do so, as always.
Hell, given the way the Imperium is constructed they're very likely to
engage in smuggling themselves where they need to, like the
US involvement in the smuggling of bibles into the Soviet Union.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:14:09 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: My T5 wish list

Date sent:      	Sun, 15 Nov 1998 23:06:29 -0800
From:           	Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>

>Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:

>> 2  T5 FFS. This should be the technical 'bible' of Traveller. It should be
>>     gearheads heaven, covering the construction of everything at any TL (hey
>>     this is a wish list after all). It should be useable with any mileau.
>
>And any other design system should be an easier, less detailed version of
>this system.

Definitely, one of the worst things about Traveller is its bad habit of creating 
multiple incompatible design systems. IMHO a revised FFS should be finished 
and ready to go **before** T5 hits the streets (not that it has to be released, but 
it has to be finished). The design system is a core mechanic (just like the task 
system, chargen etc). Its easier to start off with the complex system and dumb 
it down than to go the other way.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 02:32:15 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: MIL SF Reading List

  David Drake's "At Any Price" is worth a look if for no other reason than
to get a taste of how warfare against teleporting infantry (relevant now that
G:T has the Zho's coming up).

  I'd also really recommend Robert Frezza for his "A Small Colonial War".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 01:21:24 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re TNE, T4

Gary asks:
>> i do, as the T4 combat system is as broken as TNE's, and the T4 task system
>> was quite accurately (IMNSHO) reflected by said review.
>
>What do you consider broken about TNE combat?
Both TNE and T4:
	damage is not severe enough! You can't kill someone with a .22 cal...

TNE, in specifics:
1)	difference in hit point capacity between NPC and PC
1.1)	PC damage is by location, while NPC's get a single track
1.2)	NPC's have fewer hits in their one track than flat average PC's
	have in the body.
2)	damage is too low. D6's (as per the examples in the book) are way
too low, unless you apply the quick kill rule to PC's (a nono, by the book)
2.1)	even bumping damage up to D10's still leaves PC's able to shrug off
most small arms except on exceptional hits.
3)	no interrupts.

T4, in specifics:
1)	totally based upon the (IMHO) totally broken task system.
2)	the 3dice damage limit was vague, poorly worded, and ill thought out.
3)	The damages are simply too low, even if you do throw out the 3d limit.

Personally, for many years I used striker/ahl. Then MT came out, and I use
it still. Yes, it could benefit from an initiative system much like
T2K/TNE's or T:2300's... but it works. A 22 CAN kill, and you can survive a
hit from an M60, and, given battle dress, maybe even a hit from a PGMP at
long ranges.

A specific example from a TNE game I was running (set in CT era):
Zhodani Jump marines board PC vessel (a Patrol Cutter, modified). Vargr
marine climbs into ductworks... Joey catches up to him. Shoot him 5 times
at range <2m, with a PGMP 13, and I was using d10's for damages. Vargr is
in combat armor-13. 2 hits to each leg, 2 to the body, and 1 to the tail.
The only body part in bad shape was the tail! Said Vargr then KICKED the
ZTM in the faceplate (of Battle Dress-14), and KILLED the ZTM with one
blow. Another PC in the party, a human specops officer (a general), could
do 11 dice with bare hands! We joked that he could hurt a tank that way....

T4: a shot from an ACR at short range, normal success, COULD NOT KILL an
average PC (It will drop him, but he'll live, assuming 7's in all stats.
Due to the 3d limit, max damage is 18 points, of the 21 required to kill
the PC.

MT: on an exceptional success, damage is multiplied. Sure, a 22 isn't going
to penetrate BDress, but a .556 Nato just might. An on marginal success it
is halved.... and post combat, each MT damage point becomes 1d to
attributes. It was slick, simple, almost elegant, and easy for me and my
(someitmes quite thickskulled) players to grasp. It beutifully represented
shock, adrenaline, and  stopping power with an elegant, memorable and
simple mechanic. THe Hits rating is for while the adrenaline lasts, then
the att damage is the long term limitations. Neither TNE nor T4 really have
any comparable functions in their mechanics. ANd then the Intterupt system,
which I love, for me became the base initiative system. The fact that
vehicles used the same scale damage points, the same penetration and damage
scales (altho they are 10 times that show, due to a typo), and starships
can use the same system made the system emminently more useful to me as a
GM. Almost makes me want to seek a liscence to do a "non-authoritative"
edition, focused on the timeline as tho virus never existed, but the
rebellion did, and the real strephon dies, basing the mechanics on MT, but
adding all the goodies from FF&S1, and Hard Times (One small step and two
small steps).

Based upon MWM's posted synopsis of T5, I'll save my money, unless I find
something INCREDIBLE in PN's copy when he gets it.

I do steal from T4, tho, two items.
1) the psionics system AS WRITTEN IN THE BASE BOOK.
2) the number of skills in CGen, including Background skills.

From TNE, I steal contacts and Initiative.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:aramis@gci.net> Note: All other E-mail addresses for me expire by
the end of november 1998!
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
UTUP 0309 6-7779577-5-5-2
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1144
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Traveller-digest     Monday, November 16 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1145



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All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re:  Darmine Question or Point
IW: Prometheus Rising 0/6
IW: Prometheus Rising 1/6
IW: Prometheus Rising 2/6
IW: Prometheus Rising 3/6

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 01:25:14 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re:  Darmine Question or Point

Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net> wrote

> Have the Darmine racial stats been done for GURPS:Traveller?

I have done a first draft, see below

> GURPS has several advantages/disadvantages that I belive adequately
> describe the Darmine *social/sexual* situtations. On being 
> lecherousness other being sex appeal.

> By the way I must have missed it but do you have a web page with 
> detailed info on the Darmine?

No but I may someday, right now I am too busy in the real world.

GURPS Darmine Version 1.2

This racial package requires Gurps Basic 3ED Rev, Compendium I, and
Bio-Tech.

- -1 ST (-10)
+1 DX (+10)
+1 HT (+10)

Acute Hearing +1 (+2)
Alchohol Tolerance (+5)
Attractive Appearance (+5)
Breath Holding 1 (+2)
Charisma +1 (+5)
Chauvanistic [not towards other human races] (-1)
Code of Honor - Darmine (too complicated to explain here) (-5)
Compulsive Carousing (-5)
Congenial [not towards non humans] (-1)
Cool (+1)
Cyber-Rejection (-5) (Gurps calls this -10 even when implants are
relatively uncommon, I'm calling it -5 in the Third Imperium)
Dependancy - a special diet high in heavy metals, common, monthly (-5)
[In a First Empire Campaign this would be uncommon, monthly (-10)]
Disease Resistant (+5)
Filter Lungs (only for particulate contamination -40%) (+3)
Fit (+5)
Immunity to Poison - Only Metallic poisons (-50%) (+8)
Lecherous (-15)
Light Hangover (+2)
Longevity (only for aging rolls on DX -75%) (+1)
Major Delusion -  Numerology is destiny, everthing that happens in fours
is significant (-10)
Responsive (-1)
Sense of Duty - Darmine (-5)
Sexual Orientation-Bisexual(0)
Social Stigma Minority Group - Darmine (-10)
[In the First Empire Darmine were Outsiders (-15 points)
Taboo Trait: Genetic Defects (0)
Taboo Trait: Unattrctiveness (unless due to major injury) (0)
Unusual Biochemistry (-5)

Female Darmine have
Easy Childbirth (+1)
Sterile (mitigator - Not if a Health roll is failed -50%) (-1)

Racial Skill Bonuses
+1 Skill bonus w/ Carousing (+1)
+1 Skill bonus w/ Sex Appeal (+1)

Racially Learned Skills

Savoir-Faire[Darmine](M/E) (+1)

Languages
Most Darmine speak Galanglic as their primary language and have Kadli
(M/A) at IQ (+2).  Some speak Kadli as their primary language and have
Galanglic at IQ (+2)

Package Cost -4 points (-14 points in the First Imperium)

Common Racial Skills
all Social skills especially Carousing, Sex Appeal, Merchant, Theology

Common Advantages

Alertness, Beautiful/Handsome Appearance [with the +0% special effect
Bishnonen Look (GURPS Mecha pg 33)], Blesssed [with GM permission]
Charisma (more), Clerical Investment, Combat Reflexes, Composed,
Contacts, Destiny (good), Divination Talent [with GM permision - If
Divination Talent is allowed than Darmine numerological beliefs are
correct], Extra Fatigue, Fashion Sense, Imperturbable, Increased Wealth
- - Comfortable or Better, Jack of all Trades, Luck, Oracle [with GM
permission], Pious, Sensative, Serendipity [with GM permision],
Strong Will, Very Fit

Common Disadvantages

Bloodlust, Compulsive Behavior (any), Compulsive Spending (usually only
at the -5 point level), Curious, Destiny (bad), Disciplines of Faith,
Distractable, Extra Sleep, Gluttony, Greed, Intolerance [Non Humans],
Nosy, Odious Personal Habbit - constantly telling the others in the
party that things which happen in fours are significant until the other
players wish to wring your neck..., Overconfidence, Pacifism - Self
Defense only, Primitive - (some Darmine religious sects reject
technology), Sensative, Sense of Duty, Skinny, Sterile

Rare Disadvantages

Berserk, Bully, Cowardice, Fat, Laziness, Low Pain Threshold,
Overweight, Sadism, Shyness, Vows of Monasticism, Chastity, any of the
"unfun" vows

General Comments on Darmine Charecter Generation

Psionics - Darmine are no more likely to have Psionic ability than non
Darmine but are (unknown to non Darmine) somewhat more likely to have
received training in Psionics if they have the ability.  Darmine with
Psionic Ability are significantly more likely to have the Special
Psionic ability of Precognition than members of other human races.

Most Darmine Psionic Institutions are secret parts of Darmine
relgious/philosophical centers.  Apply a +2 DM to the roll to determine
if a Darmine planet has a Psi Institute and check for Pop 8 planets (at
the normal chance) as well.  Most Darmine Institutes would require
applicants to be Darmine and have skill in Philosophy/Darmine and
Language/Kadli.  Darmine Institutes would be exceedingly unlikely to
accept a nonhuman applicant.  The Intelligence agency of the Darmine
Merchantile Association, the Lineal, has some psionic operatives. 
Darmine Institutes would normaly check for abilities in this order:
Special, Awareness, Telepathy, Clairvoyance, Telekinesis, Teleportation.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 00:09:33 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: IW: Prometheus Rising 0/6

Over the past few days there has been some interest expressed in the 
Interstellar Wars Period, a period for which I have done some work (my 
Prometheus Rising project). I have received a number of requests for the work 
and have rather tenatively decided to post the work so far. Therefore there 
follows 6 posts covering what I have so far.

However there are three very important provisos for this:
1 - This is an entirely unofficial and non-canon.
2 - The work is very unfinished and unedited, with language mangled as only a
    dyslexic can.
3 - Due to RW commitment I have not been able to do any work on this for
    about 2 months and am unlikely to be able to resume this year.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 00:09:33 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: IW: Prometheus Rising 1/6

             The Interstellar Wars (2110 AD to 2299 AD)

The Interstellar Wars were a lengthy series of conflicts between the young 
Terran Confederation and the ancient Vilani Empire (Ziru Sirka). Ultimately the 
Terrans were to triumph over the huge Ziru Sirka, but the outcome was never 
certain until the final years. The wars can be divided into three distinct periods: 
Early, Classic and Collapse.

During the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Wars (termed the “Early” period) the Vilani 
underestimated the Terrans, regarding them as little more than a well organised 
nest of pirates (an opinion in fact not too far from the truth); and thus failed to 
allocated adequate forces to deal with them. This miscalculation was indeed 
fortunate for the Terrans, as it allowed them time to organise themselves, copy 
the advanced Vilani technology and to build sufficient forces to face the Vilani 
provincial forces on an equal footing. The root cause of this miscalculation can 
be found in three simple factors. Firstly due to the vast linguistic, cultural and 
genetic diversity present on Terra (over 80% of Humaniti’s genetic pool can be 
found on Terra), throughout the 1st War the Vilani believed that they were facing 
a coalition of several minor branches of Humaniti rather than a single race. 
Secondly the Vilani could not realise the capacity for the Terrans to expand. 
Throughout their long history the Vilani had practiced various forms of 
population control and their limited biological technology had rendered many 
worlds impossible to colonise. Thus they just did not anticipate the rate at 
which the Terrans would expand when they started to reach into space. Thirdly 
the Vilani anticipated that the Terrans rate of technological advancement would 
be similar to their own gradual progress. Nothing in their experience had 
prepared them for a culture that could match their own in just 33 years. These 
factors combined to lead the Vilani to regard the Terrans as nothing more than 
a minor nuisance throughout the Early period.

The 4th through 7th Wars were a lengthy struggle during which the Vilani 
provincial forces attempted to hold the growing power of the Terran 
Confederation. These wars were marked by the slow erosion of the Vilani 
position coupled with the steady colonial expansion of the Terran Confederation 
to rimward. This is regarded as the “Classic” Interstellar Wars period (so called 
due to the fact that most commonly held opinions and assumptions about the 
wars come from this period). It is marked by a series of wars in which the 
Terrans would launch massive incursions into Vilani territory, only to find 
themselves overextended and forced back by stiffening Vilani resistance, 
resulting in a stalemate followed by a compromise peace settlement. This 
period includes the one war (the 4th) which the Vilani can be regarded as having 
won.

The final phase of the Wars covers the 8th, 9th and Nth Wars; and is termed the 
“Collapse” period. This period is marked by the rapid and total collapse of the 
Ziru Sirka; and the rebellion and defection of many of the Vilani subject races. 
The actions of the Terrans are almost secondary during this period, as the 
Vilani collapse had assumed a momentum all of its own. It is theorised that the 
prestige and authority of the Ziru Sirka was fatally compromised by its utter 
defeat at the hands of the Terrans in the 8th and 9th Wars and without it the 
Empire simply unravelled under the social pressures resulting from millennia of 
inertia. It appears extremely likely that the Ziru Sirka would have collapsed after 
the 8th War regardless of any Terran actions. In this respect the final Terran 
conquest of the Empire can be regarded as purely opportunistic. 

                The Origins of the Interstellar Wars

The Terrans first started to reach into space in 1957 AD. By the early years of 
the 21st Century the space around the Earth had become crowded and the 
tensions between the various nations of Earth over their “rights” was increasing 
to dangerous levels. Thus it was felt that an impartial body was required to 
control such matters as traffic control, allocation of radio frequencies, satellite 
orbits and the such like. To fill this role the United Nations Space Coordinating 
Agency was brought into being. Gradually, as the Terrans expanded further into 
space, UNSCA’s responsibilities expanded with them. By the middle of the 21st 
Century, UNSCA had become the central regulatory body for space operations 
in the Solar System. During this period UNSCA had expanded its sphere of 
operations to include a large research component and it was this that was to 
change forever the course of Earth’s history. In 2087 AD a UNSCA research 
team at under the leadership of Dr Hans Waven in the Asteroid belt 
accidentally stumbled upon the secret of jump drive (called Waven Hyperspace 
Shunt Drive or WHS Drive by the Terrans throughout the Interstellar Wars 
period).

Initially the poor understanding the Terrans had of hyperspace and gravitic 
sciences generally meant that these early drives were woefully inefficient and 
lacking in range. The algorithms used by the Terrans were based largely on 
observational experience rather than a sound understanding of jump space 
theory; and consequently their deficiencies were greatly magnified with 
increasing distance, effectively limiting the range of these early WHS Drives to 
30 AU. Despite these inefficiencies, the new WHS Drives were widely used for 
intrasystem travel and they contributed greatly to the opening up of the solar 
system in the later years of the 21st century. Part of the savings in travel times 
made possible by the WHS Drives were paid back to UNSCA as royalties, 
greatly contributing to the UN’s budget leading to its eventual financial freedom 
from Earth’s nation states. This was to prove vital; for the later years of the 21st 
century were marked by increasing tensions between the blocs on Earth (the 
nation states had largely been replaced in importance by multinational trading 
blocs during the first half of the 21st century). The new frontier of the space 
became yet another sphere for these rivalries and this lead inevitably to the 
militarisation of space in during the second half of the 21st century.

However it was inevitable that someone would eventually attempt to use these 
WHS Drives to reach the stars despite their apparently limited range. Near the 
end of the century the algorithms used to calculate jumps had been improved 
by trial and error to the stage where travel to the stars had become possible. 
During the last decade of the 21st century Earth’s power blocs were fully 
involved in a race to reach the stars. In 2093 AD President Margaret Inch of the 
United States set the United States Space Force (USSF) the task of reaching 
the stars. The first step was the establishment of the Alan Shepard Deep 
Space depot between Terra and Barnard’s Star. In 2096 AD, the USSF 
completed the Starleaper I, a long range scoutship fitted with the latest 
generation of WHS Drives; hence the scene was set for the first contact 
between the Terrans and the Vilani at Barnard’s Star. Thus the Starleaper 
mission, intended as a triumphant demonstration of US technology, returned in 
secret to a closed session of the UN security council, bringing incontrovertible 
evidence that they had encountered not only aliens, but that these aliens were 
Humans.

Contact with the Vilani was to have a profound effect on the Terrans; prior to the 
mission there had been much discussion as to the nature of a theoretical alien 
civilisation, but no one on Earth had even considered the possibility of a 
“Human” alien civilisation. The Terrans entered a period of culture shock, 
unsure just what to make of the Vilani; most Terrans regarded the Vilani as a 
threat, though initial a substantial minority did call for an accommodation to be 
reached and some (particularly amongst the followers of the New Age Mystic 
religions) even sought to join the “superior” Ziru Sirka. However as the evidence 
mounted of the Vilani’s policy of forcible incorporation of any race that reached 
the stars and it became clear that the Vilani culture was almost diametrically 
opposed to that of the majority of Earth’s citizens, attitudes hardened and the 
Terrans became increasingly antagonistic towards the Vilani. The military build 
ups of the late 21st century continued and the various power blocs on Earth vied 
with each other to “lead Earth against the Vilani menace”. Faced with the 
overwhelming size and technological advantage of the Ziru Sirka the Terrans 
responded with a crash program to match or acquire Vilani technology either by 
research or simply reverse engineering purchased or stolen examples. By and 
large this program was successful and by the outbreak of the First Interstellar 
War the Terrans had already achieved tech level 10 in a number of crucial fields 
(drives and computers), though certain technologies (most notably in the field of 
gravitics and related technologies) were to remain poor throughout the period.

                        The Barnard Incident

By 2110 AD the Terrans had established a substantial presence on Barnard, 
exploiting the rich mineral deposits and building what was to become an 
important colony. Naturally Sharurshid (the Vilani corporate Bureau responsible 
for the rimward provinces) viewed this as a clear violation of their commercial 
rights. Matters were not helped by the fact that the Terran’s advanced biological 
technologies made their operations far more efficient. Over the first decade of 
the 22nd century tensions between the Terrans and the Vilani over Barnard had 
been gradually increasing. To the Vilani, it was intolerable that these minor 
races from Kheraa (Terra) should blatantly infringe on their commercial 
interests; to the Terrans the shear size and power of the Ziru Sirka bred fear 
and resentment.

Against this background the hawks amongst Earth’s nations built up their 
military strength on Barnard; whilst cooler heads amongst the Terrans 
attempted to negotiate an understanding. These negotiations turned out to be 
doomed from the start. Not only did each of the major Terran power blocs 
demand an independent voice in the negotiations; the Terrans just could not 
understand why the local Vilani negotiators constantly had to refer every single 
point to their superiors. To the Terrans, it appeared that the Vilani were 
deliberately obstructing negotiations. Nor could the Vilani understand the 
Terrans impatience; to them it appeared that the Terrans were just using them 
as a diversion while they took over Barnard by a fait accompli.

As both the Vilani and the Terrans reinforced their military presence around 
Barnard, tensions grew, tempers shortened and “incidents” increased in 
frequency. In 2110 AD a Sharurshid merchant convoy strayed into Terran 
airspace; in itself nothing too serious, this sort of incident had occurred 
countless times before. However this time was slightly different. Four weeks 
previously an armed Vilani merchant had fired warning shots at a Terran 
patrolship in a disputed zone and the previous patrolships drawn from the 
European Union had just been rotated out in for those of the Western League 
(the most hawkish of Earth’s power blocs at that time). Thus when the Vilani 
merchant failed to respond correctly to the UNSCA traffic control the Western 
League patrolship Canberra fired several warning shots in an attempt to force 
the convoy to land in Terran controlled territory. The convoy returned fire and 
attempted to flee as the Canberra gave pursuit. At this point a Sharurshid 
Gadni Type 56m escort arrived on the scene and opened fire on the Canberra. 
A brief running battle ensued which resulted in the destruction of the escort. 
During the final stages of this skirmish, the Vilani ground defences had 
engaged and damaged the Canberra. As a result of this the local Western 
League commander determined to neutralise the Vilani outpost on Barnard with 
a rapid ground assault. This failed, both sides reinforced their positions and the 
First Interstellar War had begun.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 00:09:33 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: IW: Prometheus Rising 2/6

            First Interstellar War (2110 AD to 2118 AD)

The war started accidentally over a minor incident on Barnard. Initially the Vilani 
Diikagkarunii (provincial governor) paid little attention to it, deploying most of 
her limited forces in an attempt to counter the Terrans commerce raiding rather 
than concentrating sufficient forces to invade the Terrans territory. By 
comparison the Terrans were frantically committing everything they had to the 
war, whilst desperately attempted to close the technological gap between 
themselves and the Vilani. The Terrans quickly expelled the Vilani from Barnard 
and the fighting settled down to an attritional battle as the Vilani were content 
for the most part to contain the frequent Terran attacks; themselves only 
launching the occasional offensive attempting to breakthrough the Terran 
perimeter. None of these Vilani offensives contained sufficient forces to defeat 
the Terran defenders and the Terrans were able to repulse them all, even 
though they took a heavy toll on their forces. During the later years of the war 
the Terrans realised that they were unable to face the Vilani in open battle. As 
a result of this weakness they concentrated their efforts on commerce raiding, 
the one area they had achieved success in. The Vilani have not encountered an 
opponent able to range so deeply into their territory before and failed to take 
adequate counter measures. Eventually these raids began to result in 
significant economic dislocation and the Vilani governor, concerned at the 
continuing drain on the provinces economy made peace in 2118 AD, conceding 
Terran control over Barnard.

            Second Interstellar War (2133 AD to 2138 AD)

With the end of the 1st War the Diikagkarunii chose to almost completely ignore 
the Terrans (much as she had done during the war). Intelligence gathered 
during the war suggested that they would pose no threat for some considerable 
time to come and the matter was simply referred to higher authorities within 
Sharurshid. A curious form of detente evolved as independent Terran traders 
found that they could serve the Vilani frontier worlds far better than could 
Sharurshid’s rigid trade routes. Though this trade was officially banned, these 
“Free Traders” quickly came to dominate trade with those frontier systems and 
Terran products supplanted traditional goods on those worlds. Initially the 
Diikagkarunii turned a blind eye to this, but in 2127 AD she was replaced and 
the new Diikagkarunii found this gross invasion of Sharurshid’s markets 
intolerable. At first he attempted to simply get the offending worlds to respect 
the established monopoly. When this proved unsuccessful he elected to use 
military means to remove the competitor.

The Diikagkarunii launched a surprise offensive aimed at reducing Barnard. 
However the Vilani intelligence had seriously underestimated Terran strength. 
The Terrans had by this time equalled the Vilani technologically and brought 
their forces under a single strong central command. The initial offensive was 
easily contained and in 2135 AD, the Terrans launched a counter-offensive at 
Agidda. The Vilani response was deficient and the Terrans captured Agidda in 
2136 AD. The Terrans followed up their success at Agidda with an attack on 
Nusku. The local Vilani forces put up a heroic resistance here and the Terrans 
offensive was stalled. The Vilani then launched a counter-offensive aimed at 
Fenris, but this was defeated with some difficulty by the Terrans (having 
suffered heavy loses at Nusku). Again throughout the war, the Terrans launched 
many deep penetration raids into Vilani space; and with the war stalemated, 
the Vilani made peace in 2138 AD, ceding Agidda to the Terrans.

            Third Interstellar War (2146 AD to 2158 AD)

The Diikagkarunii was humiliated by the Terran victory in the 2nd War and had 
failed to achieve his basic aim of eliminating the Terrans as competitors. Over 
the next eight years he rebuilt his strength with the intention of renewing 
hostilities. In 2146 AD he launched simultaneous offensives aimed at Fenris 
and Agidda. The thrust at Fenris was held with some difficulty, but the Agidda 
offensive was successful and the Terrans were forced back to Barnard. Barnard 
fell to the Vilani in 2148 AD and the Vilani moved to attack Terra directly in 
early 2149 AD. This proved to be a miscalculation on the part of the Vilani, as it 
incited near fanatical resistance from the Terrans. The Vilani were defeated and 
forced from Terra in mid 2149 AD with heavy losses. By this stage both sides 
had suffered severe loses and paused to regroup. This phoney war period 
lasted until late 2151 AD when the Vilani (reinforced by Sharurshid central 
reserve troops for the first time) again attacked Fenris. Whilst not able to take 
Fenris, the Vilani were successful in besieging it and moved on to attack 
Junction in the middle of 2152 AD.

The Battle of Junction was the turning point of the 3rd War. The Vilani Fleet 
was defeated and scattered in late 2152 AD and the Terrans moved on to lift 
the siege of Fenris in 2153 AD. In mid 2153 AD the Terrans launched a 
diversionary attack at Barnard. The diversion was successful and the Vilani 
diverted significant forces to hold Barnard. In early 2154 AD the Terrans 
launched their major offensive using Sirus as a base. With most of their forces 
tied up at Barnard, the Vilani were woefully unprepared for this attack. In little 
more than 8 months the Terrans had seized Shulimik, Iilike and Markhash. The 
Terrans then transferred the weight of their forces to the Barnard Front; and had 
recaptured both Barnard and Agidda by late 2154 AD.

With their perimeter secured the Terrans then moved on to attempt to seize the 
important high population world of Nusku. The assault was launched in the 
second quarter of 2155 AD but the defenders of Nusku proved to be no less 
capable than they had been during the 2nd War and the word did not fall until 
late in 2156 AD. The battle for Nusku had seriously drained the Terrans forces 
and allowed the Vilani to regroup. By this stage neither side had sufficient 
forces to mount any serious offensives and the war bogged down into an 
attritional struggle in which the Terran commerce raiders took a heavy toll. 
Finally the War became troublesome enough to warrant the attention of the 
Sharurshid’s central management; and in early 2158 AD the Diikagkarunii was 
replaced and his replacement, eager to end the costly war, ceded the entire 
Sol subsector to the Terrans in return for peace.

            Fourth Interstellar War (2185 AD to 2191 AD)

The 3rd War was followed be a lengthy but uneasy period of peace that came to 
be known as the “Empty Peace”. During this period the Terrans, confident after 
their victories in the Early wars, embarked on an extensive program of colonial 
expansion, both into the newly acquired Vilani worlds and to the virgin worlds to 
rimward. This allowed Sharik Yangila, the new Diikagkarunii, the time to 
radically reshape the forces at her disposal. She obtained permission from the 
Sharurshid’s central management to construct large numbers of radically new 
ships based around large spinal mounts after the Terran pattern (the so called 
Attack Cruisers). New tactical methods were introduced to deal with the 
Terrans close range attacks. Rear area patrols were expanded and deployed in 
depth in an attempt to deal with Terran commerce raiders. Extensive 
intelligence work built up a detailed picture of the Terrans weaknesses and 
preparations were made to capitalise on these. In 2185 AD the Vilani were 
ready to strike.

The initial Vilani assault fell on Nusku. The Terran response proved inadequate 
and the world was quickly overrun. Rather than turn towards the heart of the 
Confederation, Yangila chose to drive to liberate Ishimshulgi and Lagash. This 
unorthodox drive caught the Terrans by surprise and was a brilliant success. 
By 2186 AD the Terrans had suffered heavy casualties and both worlds had 
been lost. With the coreward portions of the Sol subsector secured, Yangila did 
not repeat the mistake of the previous war and threaten Terra itself, but rather 
turned her attentions towards the Terran occupied worlds in the Dingir 
subsector. In 2187 AD the focus was shifted to Iilike. By this stage the Terrans 
had started to come to grips with the changed Vilani methods; and with some 
difficulty the Iilike offensive was held. This minor setback was to prove 
disastrous for Yangila, as her enemies within the province seized on the 
opportunity to bring about her downfall. As the Terrans rebuilt their strength the 
new Vilani commander failed to regain the initiative and the war bogged down 
into an attritional fight around the Terran perimeter at Iilike and Agidda. With the 
Terran’s usual long range commerce raids slowly regaining their former 
effectiveness, this form of warfare eventually proved to be too costly for the 
Vilani to sustain. In 2191 AD a negotiated settlement was reached with the 
Vilani regaining the coreward portion of the Sol subsector.

            Fifth Interstellar War (2203 AD to 2213 AD)

Still smarting from their defeat in the 4th War, the Terrans took advantage of a 
minor border incident to renew hostilities. In 2203 AD they launched an 
offensive aimed at retaking the worlds lost in the 4th War. The Terran strategy 
was not aimed at directly reconquering the worlds, rather isolating them and 
reducing them at leisure. The initial Terran target was Nusku which fell after a 
brief siege. Then rather than turning to trailing as the Vilani expected, the 
Terrans drove into the Dingir subsector taking Apishal and Zaggisi in 2203 AD, 
thereby establishing a strong defensive position. Only then did the Terrans 
focus their attentions on the coreward worlds in the Sol subsector. Whilst 
holding of the Vilani in Dingir, the Terrans reduced these worlds one by one 
over the next 3 years. During this period, the Vilani launched a number counter-
offensives aimed at relieving their possessions in the Sol subsector, however 
the Terrans held off each one (albeit with some difficulty). With the Sol 
subsector secure, the Terrans turned again to Dingir. In 2207 AD they moved 
against Shuruppak and Meshan. Both these worlds fell with little struggle and 
the Terrans drove deeper into Dingir. However they were then starting to 
overreach themselves. In 2210 AD the Terrans reached Kinunir. Their defeat at 
the Battle of Kinunir marked the high water mark of the Terran advance in the 
5th War. Over the course of the next 3 years the Vilani gradually pushed the 
Terrans back. By this stage the war was proving to be a strain on both parties 
economies and in 2213 AD a treaty was negotiated in which the Terrans 
regained the worlds they had lost in the 3rd War.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 00:09:33 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: IW: Prometheus Rising 3/6

            Sixth Interstellar War (2221 AD to 2231 AD)

The 6th War opened with a Vilani attempt to outflank the Terrans. Their initial 
offensive was launched from the Vega subsector using a deep space refuelling 
depot to extend the range of their fleet. This enabled them to attack Lagash 
directly from Shulgiasu. The strategy did catch the Terrans off guard, who had 
expected any attack to fall in the Dingir subsector and Lagash fell in late 2221 
AD. However the Vilani strategy proved to be deeply flawed. As the Vilani 
attempted to push on toward Ishimshulgi and Nusku, they found that with their 
supply lines totally dependent on the deep space depot, they could not gather 
sufficient forces to reduce Ishimshulgi. By 2223 AD the Terrans had halted their 
offensive and forced them back to Lagash. Lagash was to prove to be a 
weeping sore in the Vilani war effort during the 6th War. The Terrans never made 
a concerted effort to retake the world, but were well contented to just bleed off 
Vilani strength as they tried to hold the world. Eventually the Vilani recognised 
the futility of this front and in 2228 AD they abandoned Lagash.

In the meantime, events had not remained static on other fronts. In 2224 AD 
the Terrans launched an offensive into the Dingir subsector. This offensive was 
aimed directly at the important high population world of Gashidda. Shuruppak 
and Enki Kalamma both fell in 2224 AD and the Terrans gathered their strength 
for an assault on Gashidda itself. The Siege of Gashidda lasted for most of 
2225 AD and into 2226 AD. Eventually the world finally fell to the Terrans, but 
not before the Terrans had suffered significant losses. With Gashidda secured, 
the Terrans drove deeper into Vilani territory. Shilgiili and Kinunir fell in 2227 
AD, and Shulgi and Meshan in 2228 AD. However by this stage the Terrans 
losses were mounting alarmingly and with the Vilani withdrawal from Lagash in 
2228 AD they were able to significantly reinforce the Dingir front. The weakened 
and overstretched Terrans were unable to hold their gains and by 2230 AD the 
Vilani had retaken Shilgiili, Kinunir and Shulgi. By this stage the war had taken 
a heavy toll on both sides and the more moderate elements in both camps 
were calling for a peace treaty. A treaty was negotiated in 2231 AD with the 
Terrans retaining Enki Kalamma, Shuruppak, and Meshan; and the Vilani 
regaining Gashidda.

           Seventh Interstellar War (2237 AD to 2244 AD)

The end of the 6th War proved to be only a brief respite as both sides furiously 
rebuilt their strength. The period between the 6th and 7th Wars was more like an 
uneasy truce than a time of peace. Both sides engaged in frequent raids and 
there were numerous skirmishes during this period. In 2237 AD the expected 
7th War began. The opening move was a Vilani attack on Enki Kalamma. The 
world fell in late 2237 AD and the Vilani drove on to Shuruppak, which fell in 
2238 AD. Iilike was the next Vilani target. By this stage however, the Terran 
defence was starting to stiffen significantly. The Vilani were unable to take Iilike 
and when the Terrans launched an offensive towards Apishal they were forced 
to abandon the siege. Apishal and Zaggisi fell to the Terrans in 2239 AD. From 
there the Terrans drove on to Karkhar with the aim of reopening a link to 
Meshan. Karkhar fell in 2240 AD, but by this stage the Vilani had transferred 
sufficient forces to hold the line. However they did not anticipate the rate at 
which the Terrans could shift the weight of their offensive and in 2241 AD the 
Terrans were again on the offensive using Iilike as a base. Faced with pressure 
on two fronts and with the Terran technological advantage becoming quite 
marked, the Vilani finally buckled. In 2242 AD the Terrans retook Shuruppak, 
Enki Kalamma and Shilgiili. The Terrans had learnt the lessons of the 5th and 
6th Wars and were careful not to overextend themselves again. The war settled 
down to another prolonged attritional struggle were the traditional Terran 
commerce raiding tactics wore down the Vilani will to continue the war. The war 
was to drag on like this for another 2 years before the Vilani yielded and ceded 
the trailing half of the Dingir subsector to the Terrans in 2244 AD.

            Eighth Interstellar War (2266 AD to 2270 AD)

The 7th War was followed by the so called "Long Peace". Both sides had been 
heavily drained by the efforts of the 6th and 7th Wars; and neither was keen to 
renew hostilities quickly. However, this lengthy period of peace was to favour 
the Terrans far more than the Vilani. With the relative stability of the Long 
Peace substantial colonies were established to rimward, the former Vilani 
worlds were absorbed into the mainstream of Confederation culture and most 
importantly; industry was rationalised and the technological advances of the 
previous 150 years fully utilised for the first time.

Finally however the 8th War came in 2266 AD. The war opened with a Vilani 
attack on Karkhar. The attack proved to be misjudged. The Terran defences 
were far stronger than the Vilani had anticipated and the Vilani forces badly 
lead. In 2267 AD the Terrans commenced their counter-offensive. Shulgi and 
Kinunir fell quickly in 2267 AD. Launching a faint towards Gashidda, the 
Terrans turned and seized Dingir in 2267 AD. This threw the Vilani into 
confusion; and provided the opportunity for Admiral Albadawi to launch his 
master plan. He gambled on the Vilani being unable to react quickly to a 
change in Terran focus and moved to seize and fortify Enulsur (now Oudh). 
Taking possibly the biggest gamble of the wars, he took the bulk of the Terran 
fleet and in 2268 AD he reduced Gaea, Tonopah and Duriim. This manoeuvre 
totally outflanked the Vilani and left their entire fleet cut off and stranded at 
Gashidda. The Vilani tried franticly to break out of this pocket but the Terran 
line held and the Vilani fleet was to remain impotent throughout the rest of the 
war.

In the meantime the Terrans took advantage of the absence of the Vilani fleet to 
reduce many of the now vulnerable Vilani worlds. Without the provincial fleet to 
protect them the entire rimward provinces lay open to invasion. Within nine 
months the Terrans had occupied no less than twelve new worlds and had laid 
siege to another four. The Terrans advance was greatly assisted when in Early 
2269 AD the Vegans revolted against their Vilani overlords and established the 
Vegan Polity. The Terrans immediately declared the infant Vegan Polity to be a 
Terran protectorate and dispatched forces to assist the Vegans. By 2270 AD 
the entire rimward province lay open to Terran invasion and the Diikagkarunii 
sued for peace. In the subsequent Treaty of Enulsur, the Vilani recognised the 
Terran protectorate over the Vegans and surrendered all territory rimward of 
Vega to the Terrans.

            Ninth Interstellar War (2274 AD to 2280 AD)

With the crushing defeat in the 8th War, the Igsiirdi (central Vilani ruling council) 
finally took notice. Substantial forces were dispatched to the Rim and 
preparations were made to finally put an end to the Terran menace. However 
the Terrans struck first. Utilising their newly developed jump 3 drives (deployed 
experimentally in limited numbers at the end of the 8th War) the Terrans struck 
through the weakly defended trailing flank, outflanking the Vilani forward 
positions and destroyed the Vilani fleet in detail. The Vilani were thrown into a 
panic; the remnants of the provincial forces, already severely demoralised after 
the 8th War collapsed, whilst the newly arrived central forces were totally at a 
loss to cope with the deep penetration and raiding tactics of the Terrans. The 
newly developed Terran meson guns further added to the Vilani defeat and the 
slow retreat turned into a virtual rout. In response to the rapidly deteriorating 
situation, the Igsiidri repeatedly dispatched substantial reinforcements only to 
have them disintegrate in the face of the Terrans. In desperation the newly 
arrived central forces attempted to adopt the tactical methods used 
successfully by the provincial forces, only to find that their incomplete 
understanding of these methods only made matters worse. By 2278 AD the 
Vilani were retreating on all fronts and on the verge of a complete collapse.

By 2279 AD the Terrans had almost driven the Vilani from the sector. However 
the Terran Confederation government was concerned at the rate of advance, 
with the forwards elements of their forces being virtually out of control. In 2280 
AD the Confederation government called a halt to the offensive and announced 
they were ready to bring an end to hostilities. The Vilani were by this stage 
desperate and gladly accepted the opportunity for a respite. In 2280 AD a 
settlement was negotiated that ceded the entire sector to the Terrans.

             Nth Interstellar Wars (2283 AD to 2299 AD)

The Confederation's fears about maintaining control of it's forces proved to be 
well founded. In 2283 AD a minor incident on the frontier sparked the beginning 
of the Nth Wars. Initially the Confederation only intended to use the opportunity 
to seize a few strategic border worlds to strengthen the frontier. However the 
time delay between the front and central command prevented the government 
from ever gaining control of the fleet. As the Vilani collapsed in front of the 
advancing Terrans, local commanders were constantly presented with 
opportunities too good to ignore. Many historians have commented on the fact 
that it took the Terrans 16 years to finally defeat the Vilani was more due to the 
fact that the Terrans could not keep up with the rout more than any resistance 
from the Vilani. The entire period of the Nth Wars is confusing; to all intents and 
purposes the Ziru Sirka had ceased to exist by around 2287 AD. The bulk of 
the Nth Wars were fought by local Vilani commanders and worlds with little or 
no reference or support from their higher government. On the Terran side the 
continually lengthening lines of communications prevented the Confederation 
from exercising effective control of their forces.

The Nth Wars were a period of unprecedented chaos throughout the Ziru Sirka 
Not only were the Terrans advancing through the Empire sweeping all before 
them, but the Vargr were pillaging and conquering the coreward provinces and 
many of Vilani subject races seized the opportunity to rebel against their former 
masters. These rebellions often took place with great ferocity as many of these 
minor races took the opportunity to settle old scores dating back to the 
ruthless Vilani actions in the Consolidation Wars. On many worlds Terrans 
were actually greeted with open arms as a welcome alternative to the chaos 
that appeared to be engulfing the Empire. This was especially true in the 
coreward provinces were the Terrans were seen as a bulwark against the Vargr 
incursions. The setting of the end of the Nth Wars is a purely arbitrary date 
based on the surrender of the Sirkakarun on Vland on 14th September 2299 AD. 
In fact the fighting continued for at least four years after this date as some 
Vilani continued fighting either from a sense of honour, denying the inevitable, 
or simply because they did not know the Wars were over. However by 2303 AD 
the Wars were over and the Terran Confederation was left in control of the Vilani 
Empire.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1145
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Traveller-digest     Monday, November 16 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1146



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

IW: Prometheus Rising 4/6
IW: Prometheus Rising 6/6
IW: Prometheus Rising 5/6
Re: An amusing Aside

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 00:09:33 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: IW: Prometheus Rising 4/6

                      The Terran Confederation

The Terran Confederation grew out of the old Earth bound United Nations. Due 
to the revenues generated by UNSCA, by the time of the First Interstellar War 
the UN was largely free of its former reliance on contributions from the individual 
nations of Earth for its budget. With the growth of a truly global economy 
coupled with the massive improvement in worldwide communications at the end 
of the 20th century the individual nation state lost much of its importance. 
However the various nations of Earth clung grimly to their sovereignty and 
nationalism was a major factor in Earth politics during the later 20th and early 
21st centuries; to the extent that several previously stable nation states were 
torn apart by regional nationalism. Indeed the two strongest trends in this era 
were the rise in nationalism and the tendency towards globalisation through the 
various power blocs that were slowly evolving. By the end of the 21st century 
most nations on Terra had grouped themselves into larger trading blocs (the 
European Union, the Asian Confederation, the Pacific Rim Alliance etc).

Thus the first war was not fought by a single unified Terran command, but by 
the forces of Earth’s various nations under the tenuous coordination of the 
United Nations. By the end of the First War it was clear that this situation 
could not continue. To have any chance of survival against even the Vilani 
provincial fleet, the Terrans would have to utilise their resources to the full and 
place all of their forces under a strong central command. Thus in 2120 AD the 
United Worlds (with the admission of the Terran colony on Alpha Centauri in 
2118 AD, the United Nations had been renamed) became the Terran 
Confederation. Naturally this aroused some strong opposition amongst the 
various nation states who still jealously guarded their sovereignty (especially 
true of the smaller nations). However a clever media campaign portrayed the 
First Interstellar War as a great triumph and stressed the need for cooperation 
in the face of the “common enemy”. Meanwhile the new Confederation’s more 
vocal opponents were quietly arrested and deported to the new rimward 
colonies. Those colonies did not oppose the formation of the Confederation and 
the subsequent loss of their autonomy due to fear of losing their protection from 
the “Vilani Menace”.

Initially the new Confederation’s powers were strictly limited to military matters, 
but gradually the Confederation evolved into a proper interstellar government. In 
2125 AD the various national militaries were incorporated into a single 
Confederation Army and Navy, in 2131 AD the Secretariat was given the power 
to directly legislate taxation, in 2140 AD the Secretariat was given the power to 
legislate on matters that affected more than one nation. The final change came 
in 2150 AD when the Security Council was abolished and the Secretary 
General was acknowledged as the executive leader of all the nations of the 
Terran Confederation. The Terran government remained largely unchanged 
throughout the Interstellar Wars (in 2179 AD a measure of local autonomy was 
restored to the individual colony worlds); the General Assembly was retained 
as a generalised debating forum in which all nations and worlds were 
represented equally, but legislative power over all worlds was retained by the 
Secretariat. Thus while the Confederation was theoretically a multiworld 
democracy, it was to remain dominated by Terran interests until it was 
dissolved by Admiral Estigarrbia in 2314 AD and replaced by the military 
dictatorship that was to become the Rule of Man.

Despite its ultimate demise, the Confederation drew on elements of all of 
Earth’s many diverse cultures in its make up. The western ideals regarding 
progress, innovation and individualism allowed it to equal and surpass several 
thousand years of Vilani technological achievement in just 200 years; whilst the 
eastern ideals regarding duty, family and community allowed it to single 
mindedly apply itself and thus defeat and eventually conquer the vast Ziru 
Sirka. Indeed this very cultural diversity was to play a vital role in the 
Confederation’s survival during the early wars. When the Terrans first contacted 
the Ziru Sirka the bewildering array of nations and cultures convinced the Vilani 
that they were facing a loose alliance of several minor Human races. Thus the 
Ziru Sirka believed that Earth was simply a forward staging post for a pocket 
Empire located further to rimward. Thus Earth came to be characterised in the 
mind of Vilani strategists as a nest of pirates from some unknown civilised 
region far towards the rim.

                           Terran Culture

Terran culture was profoundly changed by the initial contact with the Vilani and 
the subsequent Interstellar Wars. At the beginning of the Wars the dominant 
Terran culture was the liberal western culture that had developed in Western 
Europe and the United States of America. This culture emphasised the needs 
of the individual and encouraged innovation (and thus was almost diametrically 
opposed to the Vilani). Unlike virtually all other interstellar cultures of the 
period, the Terran culture actively embraced change and progress as a goal in 
and of itself; this was to prove to be one of the Terrans greatest assets, 
enabling them to catapult from TL 9 to TL 12 in just 200 years.

However under the pressure of the Interstellar Wars, the Terran culture was to 
undergo some major changes. As the Wars progressed, the pressures of the 
struggle inevitably lead to the Terran culture gradually becoming more austere, 
conservative and militaristic, increasingly drawing on its eastern heritage with 
its strong emphasis on duty and community; but it was never to totally lose its 
liberal and individualistic character. However along with these changes, the 
Terrans came to emphasis their cultural traditions that set them apart from the 
Vilani. Thus even though the Interstellar Wars forced the peoples of the Earth to 
finally see themselves as single people, they also saw a great emphasis on 
local cultural traditions. An example of this is that although English evolved to 
become the “universal” language of the Terrans (known as Anglic), the period 
also witnessed a great revival of many older ethnic tongues (including many 
supposedly dead languages such as Mayan, Cornish, Chinook, Motu etc). The 
other great change that occurred was the eventual death of many of the old 
prejudices that had plagued the Terrans for so long. When the Terrans came to 
see themselves as one people the many of the old social scourges such as 
racism and sexism dropped by the wayside.

This tolerant and liberal culture was to prove to be a great asset for the Terrans 
throughout the Interstellar Wars. For over 2000 years the Vilani had ruled over 
their subject races by a policy of assimilation and force. The Vilani were utterly 
ruthless in the conduct of warfare, relying on simple theories of cost efficiency. 
Any resistance or rebellion would be met with overwhelming force and no mercy 
would be shown (the Vilani did not take prisoners except in exceptional 
circumstances and had no hesitations in using genocide or weapons of mass 
destruction). Thus the Terrans with their highly structured concepts of humane 
warfare and their policy of tolerance for other races were welcomed as 
liberators by virtually all the Vilani’s subject races. As the Terrans advanced 
they found many willing allies throughout the Ziru Sirka, many of whom would 
later be granted autonomy under the Rule of Man. Although this was not to be 
a major factor until the 8th and subsequent Wars, even in the early wars there 
were a few subject race units serving within the Terran military (the first such 
unit, the Vegan Legion, was formed in 2136 AD during the 2nd Interstellar War).

The period also saw a renaissance in Terran religion. Throughout the 20th and 
21st centuries the imminent demise of organised religion had been predicted by 
many Terran commentators. However these experts had not reckoned on the 
discovery of the Ziru Sirka; an event that forever changed the face of religion on 
Earth. The realisation that mankind was not alone in the universe strangely 
reinvigorated religious belief amongst the Terrans. By the end of the Wars the 
six great Terran religions (Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, 
Confucianism and New Age Mysticism) each had tens of billions of adherents 
including many non-Terrans and over 80% of the Confederation’s citizens were 
practising members of some organised religion.

                      Terran rimward Expansion

Whilst the Interstellar Wars apparently dominated the Terran Confederation’s 
policies, the period is also marked by a massive expansion into unexplored 
space by the Confederation. In reality, until the final Vilani collapse, this 
colonial expansion accounted for the majority of the Confederation’s growth. 
This expansion is usually referred to as the “Terran rimward expansion”, a 
name that is rather misleading as it also includes significant lateral colonisation 
to spinward and trailing. The key element of this colonisation was that it was 
directed towards areas not already controlled by the Ziru Sirka.

The rimward expansion resulted in much of the growth of the Confederation 
throughout this period. By 2160 AD, there were over 1,600 million Terrans living 
off Terra, by 2235 AD this had grown to more than 17,500 million (compared 
with the 17,200 million living on Terra itself and the 6,000 million absorbed 
Vilani in the former Ziru Sirka territories). By 2300 AD, these colonials made up 
over 75% of the Confederation’s Terran and absorbed Vilani population (roughly 
160 billion at that time). However, they remained chronically under represented 
in the Secretariat throughout the period; a situation that was to ultimately result 
in Estigarrbia’s coup and the downfall of the Confederation.

One of the more unusual facets of this expansion was the Terran 
Confederation’s policy of deliberately establishing settlements far beyond its 
conceivable sphere of influence. It is not know exactly how many of these 
colonies were established, since the entire project was shrouded in secrecy 
throughout the period, but hundreds of such colonies were established. Many of 
these settlements were established hundreds of parsecs away from the 
Confederation, well beyond its ability to administer or support and they 
consumed considerable resources for very little tangible return. These colonies 
were a form of long term insurance against the possibility of the Confederation’s 
defeat.

The agency responsible for these long range colonisation efforts was the 
Confederation Agency for the Preservation of Indigenous Cultures (CAPIC). Set 
up in 2124 AD in response to the fears of the smaller Terran nations regarding 
the loss of their cultural identities in the face of the expanding authority of the 
Confederation, CAPIC was charged with ensuring that the unique cultural 
heritage of Earth should be preserved regardless of the outcome of the Wars. 
Thus CAPIC embarked upon an ambitious program of long range colonisation. 
Many (though by no means all) of the colonists in the CAPIC program were 
drawn from Earth’s ethnic and linguistic minorities who already feared the loss 
of their identity in the rapidly evolving Confederation culture. It was a policy 
established by CAPIC’s first director (Dr Kenji Schwartz) that as many of 
Earth’s cultural and linguistic groups should be resettled; and that in an 
attempt to minimise any “cultural contamination”, each world was settled by 
only one cultural or linguistic group (Dr Schwartz lived in mortal terror of the 
loss or corruption of even one of “Terra’s priceless linguistic treasures”). In order 
to effect this policy, various methods were used to encourage groups to 
resettle. Most of these took the form of incentives (financial and otherwise), but 
CAPIC was not averse to using “strong arm tactics” if it proved necessary to 
encourage reluctant colonists to emigrate.

                    Terran Biomedical Technology

Throughout this period the one area of technology were the Terrans had a clear 
and unassailable advantage was in biological and medical technologies. Even 
at the time of the first contact the Terrans had a clear lead of several tech 
levels. The reasons for this advantage are not too hard to find. As the true 
homeworld of all Humaniti, Earth holds the greatest variety of life compatible 
with Humans. Thus the Terrans clearly fitted into the scheme of life on Earth; 
and there was a wealth of experimental subject matter that gave results 
relevant to Humans. However the most important factors was probably that, 
unlike the Vilani, the Terrans were exposed to vast numbers of hostile microbes 
every day and had to develop advanced biomedical technology simply to survive.

This advanced biomedical technology gave the Terrans a number of advantages 
over the Vilani. The Vilani never developed any technology equivalent to the 
Terrans cryogenic devices (low berths, food storage and the like). The Terrans 
had access to highly advanced drugs and medicines. The Terrans were able to 
genetically engineer Earth organisms to fulfil a great variety of roles, vastly 
increasing the viability and efficiency of their colonies. The Terrans were able to 
utilise terraforming to enable the colonisation of otherwise marginal worlds. 
Most Terran ships used a biologically based closed loop life support system, 
giving them far greater endurance than their Vilani counterparts. Terran 
computers used a synaptic architecture based on the human brain, greatly 
increasing their operational flexibility.

However the most well known product of this Terran biomedical technology was 
their biological warfare program. This is curious as the Terrans only employed 
these weapons once. During the 3rd War the Vilani employed nuclear weapons 
against Terran civilian targets on the colony world of Fenris. In retaliation the 
Terrans deployed a viral weapon against the Vilani world Shululsish. The virus 
proved to be more effective than the Terrans had envisioned; and within six 
weeks over 95% of Shululsish’s population of 500 million had died either from 
the virus or the social collapse that accompanied it. This one solitary attack 
was to have far reaching consequences. The Vilani were terrified by this new 
weapon; its effectiveness and their lack of any defence or counter measures 
were quite clear. However, the attack also had consequences within the 
Confederation. There was a huge public outcry against the use of these 
weapons, it was only the pressures of the war that prevented the entire 
biological warfare program from being abandoned all together. However it was 
evident to the Confederation government that public opinion was very solidly 
against the use of these weapons and that there would be severe domestic 
consequences from any future deployment of biological weapons. As a result 
the Vilani and Terrans came to an informal understanding and neither side 
again deployed weapons of mass destruction against civilian targets.

Unfortunately the reluctance of the Terrans to employ their biological arsenal 
did not prevent the exposure of the Vilani to Terran diseases. It was inevitable 
that as the Terrans occupied a Vilani world, many of Earth’s hostile microbes 
would accompany them. As a result, the local Vilani population would be 
exposed to a plague of monumental proportions. It is a testimony to the 
Terrans dedication to their humanitarian roots (and their medical technologies) 
that, before the final collapse of the Ziru Sirka, on average only 5% to 10% of 
the local population died as a result of these plagues when the Terrans 
occupied a world. However with the final collapse, the Terrans occupied far 
more worlds than they could ever hope to deal with and the death toll from the 
plagues that swept through the former Ziru Sirka after the Interstellar Wars was 
far higher.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 00:09:34 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: IW: Prometheus Rising 6/6

                      Intelligence Operations

Both sides during the Wars had access to highly efficient intelligence services. 
On the Terran side there were the Gendarmerie who dealt with internal security 
and the Confederation External Intelligence Bureau (CEIB) for external 
operations. On the Vilani side there was Sharurshid’s highly efficient 
Ishimdagashii (Shadow Warriors)

Working notes – Vilani very good at this. Gendarmerie used against political 
dissidents. Some Vilani governors misused intassets.

                      The Terran Free Traders

One of the distinguishing features of the Interstellar Wars were the Free 
Traders, indeed it is generally accepted that they were a major factor in the 
ongoing tensions between the Terrans and Vilani. The Free Traders were 
independent Terran merchants who found a ready market for Terran goods 
amongst the Vilani frontier worlds. Whilst a few Free Traders could be found in 
the early years of the 22nd Century, they did not become a major factor until 
after the First Interstellar War. With the availability of large numbers of cheap 
surplus naval couriers and high tech Terran goods, the circumstances were 
right for a great flourishing of independent mercantilism.

The first Free Traders were collectives of former military personnel who had 
chosen to pool their mustering out benefits and use them as down payment on 
a surplus naval transport. This “collective” spirit was distinguish the Free 
Traders throughout the Interstellar Wars period; most crews would consists of a 
group of shareholders working for a share of the vessels profits (or losses). 
Extra crew members might be hired on an “as needed” basis, but most ships 
avoided this as it greatly increased their expenses. Their command structures 
were informal with most decisions being made by consensus. Most crews 
generally accepted one of their number as captain (many interstellar 
regulations of the time required a “captain”), but few had use for other ranks and 
titles.

Working notes – Why Terran goods penetrated Vilani markets. Vilani 
responses. Two sided Terran attitude to Free Traders.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 00:09:34 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: IW: Prometheus Rising 5/6

                           The Ziru Sirka

The Vilani are one of the three major branches of Humaniti (the other two being 
the Zhodani and the Solomani or Terrans). All of these (and the over 40 other 
minor branches) originated on Terra. Approximately 300,000 BC the mysterious 
Ancients removed samples of Humans from Terra and deposited them on 
various worlds throughout space for reasons unknown. Those Humans 
deposited on Vland evolved into the Vilani. The prime feature of the evolution of 
the Vilani was their alieness from their environment. Whilst Vland was on the 
face of it a hospitable world for Human habitation, its biosphere was 
incompatible with Human biology. It was this alieness that was to play a 
fundamental role in the evolution of the Vilani. Because of differences in amino 
acids and basic proteins there was virtually no life on Vland which could act as 
a food source for the Vilani

The Ziru Sirka (Grand Empire of the Stars) was a massive interstellar state. At 
its height it encompassed over 15,000 star systems and included portions of 27 
sectors, even though most of these systems remained unexploited due to 
technological limitations (notably the poor Vilani biomedical technology). By 
the time of the Interstellar Wars the Ziru Sirka had long passed its prime and 
was well on the path towards its ultimate collapse. For over 1500 years the Ziru 
Sirka had remained a static entity, maintaining its control by ruthlessly 
enforcing cultural and technological rigidity. Eventually the Ziru Sirka faltered 
and when the Terrans defeated the central fleet in the 9th Interstellar War, its 
prestige and authority were fatally compromised. From that point onwards the 
fate of the Empire was sealed as their own population lost faith in the Ziru Sirka 
and their many disaffected subject races rebelled.

The Ziru Sirka has its origins in the earliest Vilani explorations into space. In 
4717 BC the Vilani discovered the secrets of Jump Drive (the first race to do so 
since the enigmatic ancients). With this new discovery the Vilani spread to the 
stars along the Vilani Main (a region of stars easily accessible with only jump 1 
capable ships). As they expanded they encountered many other races; none of 
whom possessed the secret of jump drives, most of whom were considerably 
less advanced technologically than the Vilani. Gradually advanced technology 
was spread to these new races by the Vilani. In the process they thus 
absorbed much of Vilani culture and came to be dominated economically by 
the Vilani. However, these client races then spread Jump drive to still more 
races who did not absorb Vilani culture and laws. This situation was intolerable 
to the Vilani as it directly threatened their supremacy. Their response was the 
forcible incorporation of all races who possessed jump drive into a single Vilani 
state; this period is known to history as the Consolidation Wars. These wars 
lasted for over 1300 years (882 BC to 473 AD) and by the end there were no 
more starfaring races on the Vilani borders. This is usually taken as the 
founding of the Ziru Sirka.

With the end of the Consolidation Wars the Vilani set about the task of 
consolidating their rule; this was achieved by imposing a strict regime of 
cultural rigidity and conformity. Thus the founding of the Ziru Sirka can also be 
seen as marking the beginning of the Vilani’s cultural and technological 
stagnation. Despite the policy of rigidity, the Ziru Sirka retained a degree of 
vibrancy for some considerable time. Whilst exploration was halted in 518 AD 
and all research had come to a halt within another 200 years, the Ziru Sirka did 
continue to expand after this time. The prime reason for this expansion was the 
policy that came to be known as the “Pax Vilanica”. Despite the best efforts of 
the Vilani, technology continued to leak across the border and small interstellar 
states continued to form outside of the Ziru Sirka. Under the Pax Vilanica, the 
Vilani undertook to forcibly absorb all such states. Under this policy the Ziru 
Sirka reached its greatest extent in 1018 AD. Eventually however the Ziru Sirka 
lost either the will or ability to enforce the Pax Vilanica; by 800 AD its 
application had become irregular and had virtually ceased by 1300 AD. After 
that date the only expansion took the form of small outposts founded in search 
of resources (the Vilani settlement on Barnard’s Star was an example of this).

The Consolidation Wars came late to the rimward provinces, the Vegans were 
only incorporated into the Ziru Sirka in 114 AD. The region never attracted 
much official attention and remained a relative backwater until the Terran’s 
crushing victory in the 8th Interstellar War. After the conquest of the Vegans the 
remainder of the region was ignored until 987 AD when a dissident group set up 
a minor state centred around Dingir. Eventually this state grew large enough to 
warrant action and in 1103 AD the Ziru Sirka expanded into the worlds 
immediately adjacent to Terra. After this the region again slipped back into 
obscurity until the Terrans contacted the Vilani outpost on Barnard in 2096 AD.

                           Vilani Culture

Traditional Vilani culture can best be described as being communal and 
conservative, the central planks of Vilani culture were tradition, stability and the 
needs of the community. The Vilani were an exceptionally harmonious and 
industrious people, most early Terran explorers were amazed at their 
politeness and the degree of consensus within their society. Where ever 
possible all decisions made by the Vilani were made by group consensus after 
lengthy discussion of all alternatives. However this was not possible and 
sometimes a quick decision was required. In such cases an individual was 
required to make the best decision for the interests of the community. However 
the individual making the decision would later have to justify their actions to a 
group review. The Vilani constantly planned for long term, attempting to allow 
variations for all possible contingencies based on their past experiences. 
Naturally they were unable to fully realise this goal, but when they were faced 
with unexpected circumstances they would attempt to find traditional solutions 
to them.

Vilani society was divided into numerous castes, each with a clearly defined 
place and role in Vilani society. These castes were originally based around a 
broad grouping of occupations such as: Warriors (Dagashii), Cultivators 
(Shimsii), Artisans (Rinugii) etc. As Vilani society increased in sophistication, 
these castes developed subcastes which over time evolved into castes in their 
own right. Of these many castes, three came to dominate and direct Vilani 
society. These were the Karunii (Nobles), Badenkii (Merchants) and the Shugilii 
(Food processors). It was from these three castes that the three governing 
Bureaux of the Ziru Sirka evolved.

The central institution of Vilani society was the family consisting of a mother, 
father, their apprentices and any juvenile children they might have had. A child 
would be assigned to their caste during their early childhood (usually before the 
age of 8), and often would then be “adopted” by a family of the correct caste 
(roughly 50% of children were assigned to castes different to their biological 
parents). The family would live in a communal setting either in or very near to 
their workplace with other members of their caste. The children would spend 
most of their time at their family’s workplace, learning their chosen caste’s 
trade secrets as a lengthy apprenticeship. The child was then formally inducted 
into the cast during their Amkiidum (coming of age ceremony) at age 18. It was 
possible (though extremely rare) for an individual to change castes before their 
Amkiidum if they proved to be unsuited for their chosen caste. This lengthy 
childhood apprenticeship lead to an intimate understanding of the requirements 
of their profession and most Vilani were highly skilled in their jobs, however 
they generally lacked knowledge or experience outside of their specific caste 
requirements. This was especially true in respect of technology; to the Vilani 
the rights to develop and improve a technology were owned by the caste that 
had originally developed them (the heart of the Vilani “Technology Patent” 
system). Thus a Vilani engineer would have learned how to operate the various 
drives on his or her ship by rote and be extremely skilled in their operation. 
However they would not know the principles behind their operation, as this 
would infringe on the rights of the researcher caste that had developed them; 
and would therefore find it difficult to repair them unassisted in the event of 
failure. To overcome the very obvious limitations of this, the Vilani placed heavy 
reliance on expert diagnostic systems.

                            The Bureaux

Central to the Vilani way of life were the three Bureaux that governed the Ziru 
Sirka. These Bureaux were quasi-commercial organisations that had 
descended from the three dominant castes in pre-historic Vilani culture. The 
three Bureaux were Makhidkarun, which had descended from the Karunii 
(Nobles); Sharurshid, which had descended from the Badenkii (Merchants); and 
Naasirka, which had descended from the Shugilii (Food processors). Each of 
these Bureaux governed a specific territory within the Ziru Sirka and controlled 
virtually every aspect of life within their territories. The Terrans characterised the 
Bureaux as being simple corporations, and while there was some truth in this 
view, it failed to fully come to terms with the complex nature of the Bureaux.

The Bureaux were indeed commercial enterprises, but they were far more than 
simple Terran corporations. While each Bureau did control a particular field of 
commerce within the Ziru Sirka, they also provided governmental services 
within their territories. All of the citizens of the Ziru Sirka were employees of 
one of the Bureaux; and the Bureau provided for all their needs from the cradle 
to the grave. In return the employee was bound to their job and location for their 
entire life. The Terrans frequently likened this situation to that of the serfs in 
feudal Europe. Whilst this analogy has some degree of accuracy, it is 
important not to stretch it too far. While workers were bound to a particular job 
and location throughout their lives, there was no real noble elite; and the Vilani 
need for consensus and sense of community resulted in a paternalistic system 
with fair and equitable treatment for all.

Each of the Bureaux specialised in a differing area of interstellar trade and 
commerce depending on their origin and the technological patents they held. 
Makhidkarun with it origins in the Karunii emphasised information technology 
and governmental services; Sharurshid with its origins in the Badenkii 
emphasised trade and speculation. The exception was Naasirka. Naasirka had 
its origins in the Shugilii, who on Vland had controlled the food supply. 
Naturally this proved to be impossible on worlds other than Vland and for a 
period Naasirka floundered without any true direction. Eventually however 
Naasirka was able to transform itself into a broad based organisation with 
interests in transport, energy, agriculture and consumer goods. Originally on 
pre-spaceflight Vland there were numerous other commercial bodies dealing 
with the many other aspects of economic activity. But eventually these were all 
brought under the control of one of the three Bureaux and by the time the Vilani 
had reached out into space, all economic activity was directed by them.

The three Bureaux coordinated their activities through the Igsiirdi (Central ruling 
council). Initially the Igsiirdi was simply the means by which the three Bureaux 
debated matters of common interest, but with the start of the Consolidation 
Wars, the Igsiirdi was transformed into the central governing body of Vland and 
the Ziru Sirka. In practise it remained the coordinating body of the three 
Bureaux, as all the governmental functions were carried out by the Bureaux 
within their territories. One of the most vital functions of the Igsiirdi was in 
ensuring that each Bureaux and their products were represented within all the 
territories of the Ziru Sirka. For the most part this was achieved by cross 
licensing rather than a physical presence. Thus Naasirka products would be 
produced under licence by Sharurshid in the rimward provinces and likewise 
Sharurshid products would be licence produced by Naasirka within its 
territories. However these products were still marketed under the appropriate 
brand names throughout the Ziru Sirka. Within 10 years of the end of the 
Consolidation Wars the president of the Igsiirdi was proclaimed the Ishimkarun 
(Shadow Emperor). The Ishimkarun ruled by published decree, never appearing 
in public. Upon the death of one Ishimkarun, his or her successor would be 
elected from the ranks of the Igsiirdi. In 908 AD the Ishimkarun was declared 
the Sirkakarun (Emperor of the Stars). Gradually the control of the Sirkakarun 
and Igsiirdi weakened as the Diikagkarunii grew in strength. By 1718 AD local 
mutinies and insurrections by the Diikagkarunii were becoming increasingly 
common, some of these would seek to further their power by hiring and 
equipping barbarian mercenaries from beyond the Empire. These small border 
rebellions added to the slow decay of the Empire in its dying days.

              Vilani Colonisation Patterns in the Rim

The rimward provinces of the Ziru Sirka were placed under the control of the 
Sharurshid Bureau and the colonisation patterns followed those of Sharurshid 
throughout the Ziru Sirka. Sharurshid was concerned mainly with trade and 
speculation and as might be expected its colonisation programs reflected this. 
The region was first visited by Vilani influenced traders around 1500 BC when 
they made contact with the Vegans. The eventually received jump drives and 
other advanced technologies from these traders and by 800 BC they had 
colonised a number of nearby worlds. With the start of the Consolidation Wars 
it was inevitable that the Vilani would eventually seek to incorporate the 
Vegans. Since the Vegans were never a major interstellar power and their 
worlds were on the fringes of “known space”, the Consolidation Wars came late 
to the Vegans. Eventually however the Vilani did turn their attention to the 
Vegans and in 54 BC the Vilani Sharurshid was assigned the task of 
incorporating the Vegans.

The Sharurshid campaign against the Vegans followed a predictable pattern 
established by Sharurshid against countless other minor races. The first step 
was the establishment of Vilani colonies nearby to provide a base of 
operations. Not only did these colonies provide a base for military operations 
when they proved to be necessary, but they allowed Sharurshid to conduct 
aggressive economic warfare against the Vegans in an attempt to absorb them 
without resort to force. This opening phase in the Vegan Campaigns lasted until 
6 BC. By this stage the Vilani plan had become quite apparent to the Vegans 
and they tensions between them and Sharurshid had been on the increase for 
some time. A minor incident sparked a clash of arms that turned into a full 
scale war. The First Vegan War lasted only 8 years before it was clear to 
Sharurshid that they could not yet triumph over the Vegans. As a result 
Sharurshid made peace and then resumed further colonisation and aggressive 
economic warfare. The Vegans attempted to resist the Vilani as best they 
could, but increasingly the weight of Sharurshid’s resources was felt and the 
Vegans position weakened. In 104 AD Sharurshid had become convinced that 
peaceful incorporation of the Vegans was impossible and that they had built up 
sufficient strength in the region to allow a successful military conquest. Thus 
began the Second Vegan War. The Vegans put up a spirited resistance, but 
the superior resources of Sharurshid was unstoppable and by 114 AD the 
Vegans had been incorporated into the Ziru Sirka.

With the conquest of the Vegans, Sharurshid scouts fanned out through the 
region to ensure that the Vegans had not passed on the secret of jump drives 
to any other race. If these scouts had discovered any other race with jump 
drives the process would have begun again. When these scouts did not find 
any such race Sharurshid settled down to exploit the newly acquired territory in 
an attempt to offset the costs of absorbing it. Colonies were established on 
promising worlds to build up markets, valuable resource deposits were mapped 
and exploited, and the regions industrial base was converted from focusing on 
military needs to a focus on consumer goods. With that the rim slipped into 
relative obscurity, a breakaway Vilani state was established around Dingir in 
987 AD and then forcibly incorporated into the Ziru Sirka in 1103 AD; the 
established colonies were allowed to grow and when it proved to be 
economically attractive new ones were established. But the province remained 
a peaceful backwater until first contact with the Terrans in 2096 AD.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 03:11:47 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: An amusing Aside

At 01:28 PM 11/16/98 +1000, you wrote:

>"Norwegian submarines have discovered an unexpected problem while diving
>off the Norwegian coast: the grunting noise from swarms of lovesick cod
>overburdens the sonar equipment.  Thereby navigation in Norwegian waters
>is almost impossible, said the Defense Department yesterday."

The spectacular return from near extinction of the Florida alligator is
being credited to the US space program.  The 'gators were nearly wiped out
in the mid 60s when regular launches began at KSC.  Biologists soon noticed
a marked upswing in the gator population.  Seems that the mating call of a
male gator is a booming roar, sounding much like a rocket firing.  The
gtors near KSC hear this "mega-gator", and sound off themselves.  This
chain reaction can reach the Everglades, setting off a Florida-wide
alligator orgy.

- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+-------------------------------------+
| "Some days, you just can't get rid  |
|  of a bomb!"                        |
|     -Adam West, the REAL Batman     |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1146
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Monday, November 16 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1147



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Smuggling
Re: The Cold Equations
Re: Silent gauss/Laundry
Re: Rail Guns
Re: Rh Factors and Hyper-Immune systems...
Re: sexually flavored content
To those who got my MT alternate starship damage table
Re: freeze-dried water
Re: An amusing Aside
re: Freeze Dried Water
Re: An amusing Aside
Re: sexually flavored content
Re: TNE, T4 (well TNE anyways<g>)
Re: IW: Prometheus Rising 1/6
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1144
Traveller-relevant SF titles
Traveller Relevant SF Titles
Darmine reproduction

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:42:38 +0200 (EET)
From: Eppu Tuominen <eptitu@utu.fi>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

On Mon, 16 Nov 1998, Frank Pitt wrote:


> >I can think of three or four ways for smugglers to make life hard
> >for customs forces.  What kind of TL and level of development
> >would be needed to shut down smuggling to or from orbital space?
> 
> 
> Just what we've got now, really, stuff doing re-entry is pretty easy
> to detect, though _policing_ it may be difficult, it's probably less
> difficult than policing a sea coast.

 One way I can think of to make a re-entry undetected: use the polar
zones. Most inhabitable worlds would have pretty hefty magnetic fields
(this is one of the things that makes them habitable), which means that
massive amounts of charged high-energy paticles from solar wind and cosmic
rays are going to be collcting above the poles (where the field are
densest).
  This would do a pretty good job of spoofing any EMS based sensors. Of
course really high-tech densitometers would still be a problem
_if_ you're stupid enough to make the re-entry on gravitics. (Most
smugglers then would use ships with AF hulls.)
  BTW in my games (both Traveller and 2300AD) it is a standard pirate
tactic to lie in ambush in the radiation hotspots above gas giant poles
with a cloud of small passive sensor drones scattered around. (Oh no, I
said the dreaded P-word. Do I go to hell?)




- -------------
Eppu Tuominen
eptitu@utu.fi
- -------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 21:23:12 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: The Cold Equations

In mail you write:

> Doug Berry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>Have you read "The Cold Equations," by Tom Godwin, published in 1954? It's
>>a classic story, somewhat chilling, about a stowaway on a spacecraft that
>>has a limited fuel & air supply. The unalterable laws of physics determine
>>that there are resources for only one person to survive.
>
> What's chilling is that anyone would boost without looking inside the
> ship's closet!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> I hadn't read the original, but I saw a movie version the Science Fiction
> network made. I got the idea that the pilot never considered that someone
> would stow away on his ship - he figured that anyone who had access
> to his ship would know what kind of death sentence stowing away
> would mean. 
>
> ****spoiler warning if you haven't seen/read it*******
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The movie version I saw was one of the best original movies
> Sci Fi network has done.
>
> He falls in love with her, but she can't land the ship...and though he
> wants to, he has a responsibility too important for him to die with
> her. She steps into the airlock, and he has to cycle it open.
>
> Blew me away.

Analog (actually, I think that was published back when it was still
Astounding) had *months* of debate about that story in the letter
columns after it appeared.

I think there was one *possible* solution come up with. It makes some
not *too* unreasonable assumptions about piloting. And some moderately
out there ones about medical tech.

The piloting assumptions are that the controls are hand operable, no
feet needed. The medical assumption is that they've got the gear aboard
ship to *safely* amputate limbs, and that groundside medical gear is up
to limb-regeneration. 

You amputate his legs, and her legs, possibly her arms as well.
Jettison the limbs, and you've made the required mass reduction for a
safe landing. After landing, they both get hospitalized until the limbs
grow back.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 21:34:06 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Silent gauss/Laundry

In mail you write:

>>What do you add to dehydrated water?
>
> you add the dreaded DHMO.

Back in scouts, shortly after Zip-lock bags got moderately common, I
took a couple and slapped on a pair of hand made labels that said
"Freeze-Dried Water".

I did this after one troop in our council started sending around
tenderfeet looking for that at camporees. When one showed up at our
camp, I'd dig into my pack and hand one to him.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 21:39:43 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Rail Guns

In mail you write:

<Talking about David Weber's "Honor Harrington" series>

> The thing that most struck me with his tech was how the wedges stopped
> focused energy attacks like lasers by distorting them so they had no
> penetration, which AFAIK might work, and somehow that still works on the
> X-Ray pulse from a nuke, which is most certainly not coherent or focused.

Whoa! The X-ray warheads are nuclear pumped X-ray *lasers*. They *are*
coherent, and the range is short enough to ignore focusing. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 20:54:29 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Rh Factors and Hyper-Immune systems...

In mail you write:

> ObTrav:  If the Ancients were to tune the Darmine's immune 
> system to hyper-sensitive levels, such reactions as above become very 
> possible, based on the genetic predispositions of the individuals.  
> The Darmine has already been described as a small genetic group with 
> limited amounts of genetic drift.  If one (or several) of the females 
> among the original Darmine subject group possess even a mild 
> irritation to seminal fluid, this would be exaggerated by the 
> increase in the immune response.  The Ancients lose that one (or 
> several) individuals to shock (or maybe save the subject in time, 
> doesn't matter), and so decide to take another approach to settle the 
> problem of heavy metal poisoning.

Actually, I think immune system response is a *bad* way to deal with
heavy metals. If it was up to me I'd design special enzymes that locked
up the unwanted metals *before* they could interfere with "normal"
enzymatic activity. 

You'd also need to have the enzyme/metal complexes be "tagged" somehow
for special treatment by the body so as to expedite their removal.
Perhaps once the metal atoms are attached, they re-fold into a
configuration such that they quickly get passed to the intestines (you
*don't* want to burden the kidneys with these!). 

Possibly even an extra organ similar to the gall bladder or a special
section of the liver hooked directly to the bile ducts. I'd say that
it'd be a good idea if the complexes were somehow incorporated into
some sort of long chain polymer structure, so as to make them *hard*
for *anything* to metabolize. This *would* require extra energy use by
the body, but would be good for the *species* in the long run. 

Another possibility would be modifying the tissues that secrete hair
and nails to dump the polymer locked metals into. Add that to a
"tradition" of saving hair and nail clippings to "bury" in secure
locations where they'll be isolated from the ecosystem, and you'll be
steadily removing the metals from the ecosystem. 

Heck, the old "hair pits" might be an industrially useful source of
metals once they develop tech of their own.

ps. You could add a touch of "characterization" by claiming that their
hair and nails have a somewhat metallic sheen, and are somewhat tougher
than normal. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 07:55:45 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: sexually flavored content

bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh) writes:
>Marc wrote
>>Without any statement from me, then every artist and every writer put in
>his
>>or her own ideas as to sexual content. The problem comes up more in art
>than
>>in text. Without direction, artists put in whatever they want, and from
>time
>>o time, they make the drawings suggestive or downright sexual even
>though it
>>has no application to subject being illustrated.
>
>With the policy explained this way, I agree with it a hundred percent; 
>keeping Bad Space Babe art out of Traveller seems like a wholly admirable
>goal.

Much as I deplore "me too" posts...

Me too.

This makes sense. So sex as a subject isn't prohibited so much as
gratuitous lewdness. Medical textbooks are OK, Hustler isn't.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 09:35:58 -0600
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: To those who got my MT alternate starship damage table

I don't remember the email addresses of those that I sent my MegaTraveller
alternate damage to, so I'm, addressing it to the list. I apologize for the
wastage of bandwidth.

Steven Hudson correctly pointed out that there is an error on the table:

>>Die  Surface Explosion         Interior Explosion       Radiation Effects
>>2D6  Damage Table              Damage Table             Damage Table
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-4 . Hull (Sf) ............... Screens (Sf) ........... Weapon (Sf)
>...
>>     Use this column for:      Use this column for:     Use this column for:
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>     Fusion, Plasma,           Particle Accelerator,    Meson Guns and
>>     Laser, Missiles,          Nuclear and Antimatter   Disintegrators.
>>     Particle Accelerator,     Missiles, and Meson
>>     and Disintegrator.        Guns.

>Shouldn't the Nuke & AM missiles be on the Radiation Effects rather than
>the Interior Explosion column of the table?

Actually the weapons columns for Radiation Effects and Interior Explosion
are transposed. Much to my chagrin, it seems I am keeping true to the fine
tradition of MegaTraveller errata. ;-)

I'd post this table to the list for more feedback, but it's kind of long.
If anyone else would like to see this MT table, email me privately.

Ciao,

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 09:32:11 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: freeze-dried water

Leonard Erickson wrote:

> Back in scouts, shortly after Zip-lock bags got moderately common, I
> took a couple and slapped on a pair of hand made labels that said
> "Freeze-Dried Water".
>

Waaay off topic, but there's one entry at the Internet Ray Tracing
competion this round sort of like that....the competition theme was
'Water'

http://www.irtc.org/ftp/pub/stills/1998-10-31/addbrain.jpg

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 09:48:16 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: An amusing Aside

dberry@hooked.net wrote:
> 
> At 01:28 PM 11/16/98 +1000, you wrote:
> 
> >"Norwegian submarines have discovered an unexpected problem while diving
> >off the Norwegian coast: the grunting noise from swarms of lovesick cod
> >overburdens the sonar equipment.  Thereby navigation in Norwegian waters
> >is almost impossible, said the Defense Department yesterday."
> 
> The spectacular return from near extinction of the Florida alligator is
> being credited to the US space program.  The 'gators were nearly wiped out
> in the mid 60s when regular launches began at KSC.  Biologists soon noticed
> a marked upswing in the gator population.  Seems that the mating call of a
> male gator is a booming roar, sounding much like a rocket firing.  The
> gtors near KSC hear this "mega-gator", and sound off themselves.  

Well, nice urban legend, but the main reason KSC has been instrumental
in conservation work is the sheer size of the pristine reservation
they've created, since gators pretty much have a fixed mating season.
Because of their downrange requirements and keeping human habitation
away from the site, they have a very large area around that still in the
same condition, more or less, as it was before south Florida's huge
building boom. This has been more important for maintaining refuge for a
number of bird species,more than the alligator.

The _gators_ have come back mostly because of effective restrictions on
hunting them, and the rise of alligator farming to provide the hides
that used to be gained by hunting.

A similar comeback of the crocodile is occuring in Australia, for the
same reasons.

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:09:49 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Freeze Dried Water

Leonard Erikson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>.
 Back in scouts, shortly after Zip-lock bags got moderately common, I
 took a couple and slapped on a pair of hand made labels that said
 "Freeze-Dried Water".
>>>>>>>>>>>>
I'm probably not the only one, but it took me a couple times through
Leonard's paragraph to stop thinking "IISS" and start thinking "BSA".

<G>

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:25:35 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: An amusing Aside

JEFFREY MALONE wrote:
> 
> Got this barely relevant, but amusing piece from the NPS C4I-Pro mailing
> list:
> 
> "Norwegian submarines have discovered an unexpected problem while diving
> off the Norwegian coast: the grunting noise from swarms of lovesick cod
> overburdens the sonar equipment.  Thereby navigation in Norwegian waters
> is almost impossible, said the Defense Department yesterday."
> 
> I wonder if SDB's hiding in gas giants that support life-forms might
> suffer from the same problems?

Hmmm...that strikes an idea in me...

I wonder if any research has been done on doing active sonar disguised
as natural ocean sounds? I mean project the sounds of, say, a lovesick
humpback from your sub or better, the location clicks of a dolphin or
orca and monitor the return of those signals?

Can we turn this to the advantage in Traveller? send out a signal that
mimics some natural radiation and monitor that return for better target
resolution than passive? Maybe not as good as true active, but
somerwhere in the middle?

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:34:16 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: sexually flavored content

In a message dated 11/16/98 6:57:41 AM Central Standard Time,
Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca writes:

<< 
 This makes sense. So sex as a subject isn't prohibited so much as
 gratuitous lewdness. Medical textbooks are OK, Hustler isn't. >>

Actually, its lewdness at all (rather than gratuitous), but you are
essentially correct.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:10:47 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: TNE, T4 (well TNE anyways<g>)

> Both TNE and T4:
> 	damage is not severe enough! You can't kill someone with a .22 cal...

mmm... i'd advised you to check the actual lethality rates from .22's... and
handguns in general.  
 
> TNE, in specifics:
> 1)	difference in hit point capacity between NPC and PC
> 1.1)	PC damage is by location, while NPC's get a single track
> 1.2)	NPC's have fewer hits in their one track than flat average PC's
> 	have in the body.

Those are all done for simplicity (and not used by me, btw).  I made
'template' full NPCs and put them on index cards.  Basically one for each
template NPC provided (though i haven't needed (and thus made) *all* of them.

> 2)	damage is too low. D6's (as per the examples in the book) are way
> too low, unless you apply the quick kill rule to PC's (a nono, by the book)

The first printing has different damages (which are lower) than the Mk1 mod1. 
The quick kill for PCs recommended is double damage, but the "basic" quick
kill is still an option (using T2k's quick kill instead is better IMO, but
we're talking core). 

Alot of this whole argument depends on the perception of "realism" sans actual
realism.  

> 2.1)	even bumping damage up to D10's still leaves PC's able to shrug off
> most small arms except on exceptional hits.

I use D10s.  Shrug off?  U haven't forgotten about knockdown have you?  Not
rifles... not unarmored anyways, unless the ref in your games just stinks at
rolling damage against PCs (which i've seen happen).  Some have recommended
(and implement) lower hit point capacity.  Not me, but some. : )

> 3)	no interrupts.

lol.  Fooey on interrupts, i say.  ; )

It seems "broken" (and "unbroken") depends on where u sit.  Eye of the
beholder and all that.


Gary

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:10:49 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: IW: Prometheus Rising 1/6

> In 2087 AD a UNSCA research team at under the leadership of Dr Hans Waven in
> the Asteroid belt accidentally stumbled upon the secret of jump drive
(called
> Waven Hyperspace Shunt Drive or WHS Drive by the Terrans throughout the  
> Interstellar Wars period).

I thought it was the KHS (Kajuki Hyperspace Shunt) invented by Dr Fawzi
Kajuki.  That's what's in Galactic anyways.  You have different names for
different sources (want to be able to trace who's reading your work from
where?) or is Mr Kajuki not a friend of yours anymore? ; )  I think i might
have noticed a couple other names that were different too... (like the Vilani
provincial govenor of one of the middle wars).  

Have you sent your further information on the later wars to Jim V for the next
release of Galactic?  It only goes to the fifth when he released it anyways.
Just curious. : )


Gary

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 19:05:43 -0000
From: "Rob Hymer" <Rob@hymer.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1144

>"Norwegian submarines have discovered an unexpected problem while diving
>off the Norwegian coast: the grunting noise from swarms of lovesick cod
>overburdens the sonar equipment.  Thereby navigation in Norwegian waters
>is almost impossible, said the Defense Department yesterday."
>
>I wonder if SDB's hiding in gas giants that support life-forms might
>suffer from the same problems?
>
>Cheers
>
>Jeff Malone (aka Academician Boris Kalashnikov)
>


If they don't, they should.

Rob Hymer
"If I had all the money I've spent on drink, I'd spend it on drink" 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 19:22:10 -0000
From: "Rob Hymer" <Rob@hymer.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Traveller-relevant SF titles

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Might I suggest the following (In no particular order):
=20
        1 - The Miles Vorkosigan books by Lois Macmasters Bujold (Baen). =
Great world-building, great characterisation and a military society that =
isn't a caricature of itself. A pocket empire made for Traveller.
        2 - A Small Colonial War by Robert Frezza (Del Rey). Although =
the dialogue is utter crap, the realistic portrayal of a unit seperated =
from its home by potential years of travel raises the question of what =
happens to de-mobilised Marine and Army personnel. Oh, and everyone =
plays football, I mean soccer, on the colony worlds as well! (Hysterical =
Brit break).
        3 - The Fuzzy books by H. Beam Piper. Detestable politics, but a =
better description of life on an emerging colony world has yet to be =
written. First contact with a sentient race is given a good treatment =
too.
        4 - The Cadwal Chronicles by Jack Vance. He's very out of =
fashion, but no writer for me describes a world and its population that =
feels less like Des Moines/Hartlepool/Bogan's Gap (delete as =
appropriate). Writes a mean detective plotline too.
        5 - (Grudgingly) the Honor Harrington books by David Weber. The =
character is too perfect and the cutesy psionic cat sets my teeth on =
edge, but Weber handles Space naval matters very well. Considering his =
universe basically rips off Traveller.
        6 - The Hope series by David Feintuch. Arghh! The angst! =
Basically, a better written Honor Harrington with a deeply annoying lead =
character. The isolation of a ship in jumpspace is well expressed, =
however.
        7 - The Uplift books by David Brin. Cracking, intelligent =
storylines and some of the best alien races in known space. Good hard =
SFspace opera, if that's possible.
        8 - 'Snowcrash' and 'The Diamond Age' by Neal Stephenson. =
Cyberpunk, but thinking cyberpunk. The best treatments in SF of =
repectively, Cyberspace and Nanotech.
        9 - The Draka series by S.M.Stirling. Truly, madly, horrible =
books abouta race of narcissistic super-villains, but a good impression =
of what the Swordworlders and other nazis would like to be. Atrociously =
written but at the same time bursting with good ideas, and a very =
naturalistic handling of hi-tech, especially in The Stone Dogs and =
Drakon.
        10 - Consider Phlebas by Iain M Banks. It seems everyone else =
likes this too.

Cheers
Rob Hymer

=20

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 =
HTML//EN">
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Might I suggest the following (In no =
particular=20
order):</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1 -=20
The Miles Vorkosigan books by Lois Macmasters Bujold (Baen). Great=20
world-building, great characterisation and a military society that isn't =
a=20
caricature of itself. A pocket empire made for Traveller.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2 - A=20
Small Colonial War by Robert Frezza (Del Rey). Although the dialogue is =
utter=20
crap, the realistic portrayal of a unit seperated from its home by =
potential=20
years of travel raises the question of what happens to de-mobilised =
Marine and=20
Army personnel. Oh, and everyone plays football, I mean soccer, on the =
colony=20
worlds as well! (Hysterical Brit break).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3 -=20
The Fuzzy books by H. Beam Piper. Detestable politics, but a better =
description=20
of life on an emerging colony world has yet to be written. First contact =
with a=20
sentient race is given a good treatment too.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 4 -=20
The Cadwal Chronicles by Jack Vance. He's very out of fashion, but no =
writer for=20
me describes a world and its population that feels less like Des=20
Moines/Hartlepool/Bogan's Gap (delete as appropriate). Writes a mean =
detective=20
plotline too.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 5 -=20
(Grudgingly) the Honor Harrington books by David Weber. The character is =
too=20
perfect and the cutesy psionic cat sets my teeth on edge, but Weber =
handles=20
Space naval matters very well. Considering his universe basically rips =
off=20
Traveller.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT=20
color=3D#000000>6 - The Hope series by David Feintuch. Arghh! The angst! =

Basically, a better written Honor Harrington with a deeply annoying lead =

character. The isolation of a ship in jumpspace is well expressed,=20
however.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><FONT=20
color=3D#000000></FONT>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 7 - =
The Uplift=20
books by David Brin. Cracking, intelligent storylines and some of the =
best alien=20
races in known space. Good hard SFspace opera, if that's =
possible.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 8 -=20
'Snowcrash' and 'The Diamond Age' by Neal Stephenson. Cyberpunk, but =
thinking=20
cyberpunk. The best treatments in SF of repectively, Cyberspace and=20
Nanotech.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 9 -=20
The Draka series by S.M.Stirling. Truly, madly, horrible books abouta =
race of=20
narcissistic super-villains, but a good impression of what the =
Swordworlders and=20
other nazis would like to be. Atrociously written but at the same time =
bursting=20
with good ideas, and a very naturalistic handling of hi-tech, especially =
in The=20
Stone Dogs and Drakon.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 10 -=20
Consider Phlebas by Iain M Banks. It seems everyone else likes this=20
too.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Cheers</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Rob Hymer</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0061_01BE1196.683198C0--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 15:43:06 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Traveller Relevant SF Titles

A few of my favorites for flavor & ideas:

_For Love of Mother-Not_, Alan Dean Foster: this, and several of the
other Flinx books, gave me good ideas on life at the fringes of a
starport. The "character slowly learning his mysterious powers" bits
were good for me as well. Foster's lovely alien Thranx had too many
episodes of man-in-funny-suit, though - everything alien about them
seemed like gimmicks and plot devices, they always seemed too
human.

_Dark Star_, Alan Dean Foster(again): A portrait of cabin fever on board
an extended-mission exploration ship. At what point does a professional
crew go from "to boldly go" to "are we there yet?" Movie was good,
book made more sense.

_Icerigger_, Alan Dean Foster again: IMO, the seminal "crash on hostile
planet" scenario, with all the proper bits. Two sequels were OK, though
not as good as the original.

_Space Viking_, H. Beam Piper: Is this wasn't Traveller source material
I don't know what was. Hard to find, a little dated, but worth the read...
viking ships and raiding forces looting entire worlds.

_Dark Piper_, Andre Norton: An adventure set on a backwater colony
world on the eve of a Long Night. An old space hand makes his way
home after the wars, and warns the peaceful inhabitants about others
who may come, those who watched their own homeworlds burn.

_The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_, Robert Heinlein: picture of an alternate
society, one pretty harshly based on the TANSTAAFL concept. Also not
a bad picture of a vaccum world colony. 

Series Fiction:
Jerry Pournelle's Mercenary series
Harry Harrison's Stainless Steel Rat series
Poul Anderson's Dominic Flandry series
David Drake's Hammer's Slammers series (esp. the background info)


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:53:40 -0800
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Darmine reproduction

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 01:04:13 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Darmine reproduction

Date sent:          Fri, 13 Nov 1998 02:49:50 -0900
From:               Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>

>> Secondly  (and far more importantly), this will actually _decrease_
>> male fertility! After ejaculation, the male sperm count takes some
>> time (days) to build back up. Now you have the Darmine having
>> intercourse several times a day (10-15 times
>> the "norm")

>Possibly I should drop this to five times the norm or (less pruriently)
>just note that they have a very high sex drive.

I'd go for the latter, less chance of getting things wrong :*>
***************
     You could always say that the Darmine are phermone producers, and that
is the reason for the increased libedo.  Makes it easier on the Ancients as
well, much easier to change than the whole biological system.

Leo

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1147
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Monday, November 16 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1148



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

The Naughty Bits...
Lasers and Windows etc
Re: Freeze Dried Water 
Personal Announcement
Bad Space Babe art 
Re: Lasers and Windows etc
Traveller Relevant SF Titles
Re: Lasers and Windows etc
Lasers and Windows, etc.
Re: Freeze Dried Water
Re: Personal Announcement 
Re: Traveller Relevant SF Titles 
Re: Personal Announcement
Re: First Contact future history
[none]
Re: Personal Announcement 
Re: Personal Announcement
Re: Re TNE, T4
Re: Rail Guns

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:18:08 -0700
From: scharlto@ifsna.com
Subject: The Naughty Bits...

Isn't 'gratuitous lewdness' a bit redundant?

Steve 'My Pocket Websters defines Lewdness as Obscene' Charlton


Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:34:16 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: sexually flavored content

In a message dated 11/16/98 6:57:41 AM Central Standard Time,
Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca writes:

<<
 This makes sense. So sex as a subject isn't prohibited so much as
 gratuitous lewdness. Medical textbooks are OK, Hustler isn't.

>>

Actually, its lewdness at all (rather than gratuitous), but you are
essentially correct.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:21:41 +0000
From: dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com
Subject: Lasers and Windows etc

Hi

  Would a Laser weapon shoot through a window with minimal loss of 
damage, I guess it may melt glass or plastic, and have some refration
problems.  However assuming the Glass in the Empress class trader ships
is made of Crystal Iron would they still be armour factor 40 to laser
rifles or would the transparency allow some shots to get through - assuming
of course that blast shielding is not in place.


cheers



Dom
- ---

mailto:dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com  or  mailto:dominicr@bigfoot.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 16:32:43 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Freeze Dried Water 

> Leonard Erikson wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>.
>  Back in scouts, shortly after Zip-lock bags got moderately common, I
>  took a couple and slapped on a pair of hand made labels that said
>  "Freeze-Dried Water".
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> I'm probably not the only one, but it took me a couple times through
> Leonard's paragraph to stop thinking "IISS" and start thinking "BSA".

Guilty as charged.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 15:36:21 -0600
From: Andrew Akins <igor@truserve.com>
Subject: Personal Announcement

Not to waste bandwidth, but...

I am pleased as punch to announce the arrival of:

Jennifer Anne Akins
11110A        Baby     0 terms
Crying-3 Looking Cute-2 

I figure that since I was canonized Saint Andius Gearheadicus several
months ago, my new daughter would be at _least_ social level A.

I now return you to your normal Traveller stuff...Im going to go and make
silly faces at my girl...

Andy Akins
igor@ames.net

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                        |
| Home: igor@truserve.com - www.truserve.com/~igor/ - AIM: Iowa Akins |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/ - AIM: CMS AndyA    |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU: tc++(**) ru+ ge 3i+ jt- au+ ls+ kk+ hi+ as+ va+ dr+ so+ zh+   |
|       vi+ da+                                                       |
| Geek: GCS d- s+:+ a- C++ W++ w+++(-)$ PS+ PE t- 5++ X+ R+++ tv+     |
|       b+++ DI+ D-- G e+ h---- r+++ y++++                            |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 16:41:56 -0800
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Bad Space Babe art 

If you want that, Macho Women with Guns should fill your needs.
Traveller has it's own niche to fill.  

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
It was a typical net.exercise -- a screaming mob pounding on a greasy spot 
on the pavement, where used to lie the carcass of a dead horse.
                 http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:40:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Lasers and Windows etc

dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com writes:
> Hi
> 
>   Would a Laser weapon shoot through a window with minimal loss of 
> damage, I guess it may melt glass or plastic, and have some refration
> problems.  However assuming the Glass in the Empress class trader ships
> is made of Crystal Iron would they still be armour factor 40 to laser
> rifles or would the transparency allow some shots to get through - assuming
> of course that blast shielding is not in place.

A fine point to argue about -- what exactly a laser will do to glass.
Reasonably clear glass, unless the heat from the laser causes them to become
opaque, will allow most of the power of a laser through.  However, a
weapons-grade laser on all but the most perfectly transparent glass will
probably heat the glass up enough that it becomes opaque (note that this also
generally shatters the glass).  Photosensitive glasses which become opaque on
being hit by weapons-grade lasers (without turning to plasma first) are
probably viable by TL 9 or so, though.  Also, starship combat lasers aren't
generally visible-light lasers anyway, and starship windows are probably opaque
to UV and above in any case.

However, windows are unlikely to be all that strong -- you can't make 'crystal
iron' glass, because metals aren't transparent.  Most likely armored starships
don't _have_ much in the way of windows, and if they do have windows the armor
factor will probably be lower there.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 16:29:43 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Traveller Relevant SF Titles

Surprisingly in this vane I haven't seen any reference to the General series
by David Drake and S. M. Stirling (sic?). Interesting treatment of a society
"devolved from an earlier star faring one. It has a lot to offer in society
building for and M:0 campaign (IMHO). Not to mention whooping god
discriptions of early tech battles!

Mike Peters, Letterworks@CITnet.com
webpage:"Jump Point" http://users.citnet.com/Letterworks/
"For my part, I travel not to go anywhere, but to go. I travel for travel's
sake. The great affair is to move."
Robert Louis Stevenson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:55:09 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Lasers and Windows etc

dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com wrote:

>   Would a Laser weapon shoot through a window with minimal loss of
> damage, I guess it may melt glass or plastic, and have some refration
> problems.  However assuming the Glass in the Empress class trader ships
> is made of Crystal Iron would they still be armour factor 40 to laser
> rifles or would the transparency allow some shots to get through - assuming
> of course that blast shielding is not in place.

It depends...lasers, at least starship lasers in Traveller are X-Ray
lasers; I don't think glass is transparent to x-rays...

IAC, even with visible lasers, the glass will get hot because it's not
_perfectly_ transparent; some energy is absorbed, which can have adverse
consequences.

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 16:53:47 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Lasers and Windows, etc.

Dominic Reynolds wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
  Would a Laser weapon shoot through a window with minimal loss of 
damage, I guess it may melt glass or plastic, and have some refration
problems.  However assuming the Glass in the Empress class trader ships
is made of Crystal Iron would they still be armour factor 40 to laser
rifles or would the transparency allow some shots to get through - assuming
of course that blast shielding is not in place.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
IMTU this was always something we never got around to worrying about.
I think the train of thought was something along the lines of, "if a laser
could shoot through these windows they wouldn't have them, they have
these windows, therefore there must be something that keeps lasers
from shooting through them". Perfectly reasonable, there are plenty of
people who ride on airplanes today and don't know (or are incorrect about)
what makes them fly. Perfectly reasonable for story purposes as well...
Johnny Gage and Roy DeSoto (from an old paramedics TV show) saved 
people from burning buildings without explaining how their air masks or 
radios worked, such things were just part of their environment.

I was talking to a guy at a software training class last week, he said
someone was working on a compound that automatically became
more reflective as as the intensity of the light source increased - and
apparently did so quickly enough that you could make laser reflective
glass out of it. Interesting idea, though his crediting it to "bucky balls"
sounded pretty suspicious.

Even if the guy was completely making this up, such a material - even
if it were only a coating - would be downright useful, even if it's only
purpose was to give you time to put the blast shields up.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 16:08:25 -0600
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: Re: Freeze Dried Water

>> Leonard Erikson wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>.
>>  Back in scouts, shortly after Zip-lock bags got moderately common, I
>>  took a couple and slapped on a pair of hand made labels that said
>>  "Freeze-Dried Water".
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> I'm probably not the only one, but it took me a couple times through
>> Leonard's paragraph to stop thinking "IISS" and start thinking "BSA".

You mean he wasn't talking about the IISS?

Ciao,

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:06:11 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Personal Announcement 

> Not to waste bandwidth, but...
> 
> I am pleased as punch to announce the arrival of:
> 
> Jennifer Anne Akins
> 11110A        Baby     0 terms
> Crying-3 Looking Cute-2 

Outstanding.  But you *SURE* she's only Looking Cute-2?

> I figure that since I was canonized Saint Andius Gearheadicus several
> months ago, my new daughter would be at _least_ social level A.

At *least*.

> I now return you to your normal Traveller stuff...Im going to go and make
> silly faces at my girl...

Not a bad way to spend an afternoon.  Gonna teach her to be a gearhead when she gets older?

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:06:26 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Relevant SF Titles 

> _Dark Star_, Alan Dean Foster(again): A portrait of cabin fever on board
> an extended-mission exploration ship. At what point does a professional
> crew go from "to boldly go" to "are we there yet?" Movie was good,
> book made more sense.

The movie was GREAT!!!!!!  <grin>

> _Icerigger_, Alan Dean Foster again: IMO, the seminal "crash on hostile
> planet" scenario, with all the proper bits. Two sequels were OK, though
> not as good as the original.
> 
> _Space Viking_, H. Beam Piper: Is this wasn't Traveller source material
> I don't know what was. Hard to find, a little dated, but worth the read...
> viking ships and raiding forces looting entire worlds.

Absolutely one of my all-time faves.  These guys are the basis for the Sword 
Worlders, including the constant warfare between planets.

My faves:

'Forlorn Hope' by David Drake. 
    Non-Slammer standalone mil sci fi.  Love the field expedient shaped charge. 
    <grin>
The 'Sten' Series by Cole and Bunch. 
    Mil sci fi from the Special Forces point of view.  Some overly cute 
    munchkin tech, Highly political.
'The Man Who Pulled Down The Sky ' by John Barnes.
    How to win a colonial war when you're outnumbered 100 to 1.
The 'Matador' Series by Steve Perry.
    Neat cultural stuff.  Excellent martial arts background.  Interesting tech.
'Manifest Destiny' by Barry B. Longyear.
    Love this one.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:10:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Camino <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Personal Announcement

Andy wrote:
> Not to waste bandwidth, but...
> I am pleased as punch to announce the arrival of:
> Jennifer Anne Akins
> 11110A        Baby     0 terms
> Crying-3 Looking Cute-2 
> I figure that since I was canonized Saint
> Andius Gearheadicus several
> months ago, my new daughter would be at 
> _least_ social level A.
> I now return you to your normal Traveller stuff...
> Im going to go and make silly faces at my girl...

Hey, we've been trying to warn you about the sex in Traveller!






==
- ------------------------><>------------------------
IMTU 0601 tc++ tm !tn t4+ ?tg ru++ 3i pi ta+ he+ 
http://come.to/traveller

You might be a Traveller fanatic if... your resume includes a UPP and skill listing!


_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 23:10:31 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: First Contact future history

Alan Bradley wirtes:

>1.  Any detailed future history is likely to suffer from the Twilight:2000
>problem, where changes in the real world will make it impossible/silly. 

That is only a problem if you insist that the Traveller Universe must be a
reflection of the Real World. I don't have any problem with the Twilight:2000
timeline today that I didn't have 8 years ago. I didn't believe in a new
world war breaking out in 1999 then and I don't believe in it today. But
so what? I could still enjoy the Twilight:2000 universe as a "What If"
universe. In fact, I used it almost word for word in the timeline for my
on-going Time Patrol campaign (which is based on the 27th Century). The only
concession I have made to the passing of the years in the real world is a
single entry in my timeline:

	1992	The game universe and the real world begins to part
		company in earnest.

IMO it would be a good idea to do something similar for the Traveller
Universe. Select a date like, say, 1977, and say that anything that happened
on Earth after that, from historical events to technological developements,
and anything that will happen in the future, will only be accepted as part
of the TU if it dosen't mess it up. That way it dosen't matter if someone
invents a true AI tomorrow. It dosen't meant that we will have to redefine
AI to be TL 9 or to let Earth have a computer TL of 16 in 2000 AD. It just
didn't happen that way in that string of parallel universes that are the
Traveller universes.

>Examples:  Does Australia become a republic?  Does the UK?  Is there a
>united Ireland?  Does Scotland secede?  Quebec?  The Basque country?  Does
>Puerto Rico become a state of the US?  What happens in Israel/Palestine? 
>Does the European Union work?  Doesn't any country in Europe ever elect an
>anti-EU government?  What happens to Cuba? Mexico? etc etc....

Why is that a problem for you? It's a game, not a political manifesto. Just
because a game writer decides that in his game universe something happened
one particular way dosen't mean he believe it is what is most likely to
happen, or most desirable. All it means is that he thinks it will make for
a nice game universe. 


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:11:12 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: [none]

>From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
>Subject: Re: TNE, T4 (well TNE anyways<g>)
>
>> Both TNE and T4:
>> 	damage is not severe enough! You can't kill someone with a .22 cal...
>
>mmm... i'd advised you to check the actual lethality rates from .22's... and
>handguns in general.

I'm well aware that 1-shot kills with .22 and .22LR are low. But they are
possible (7th left intercostal space, either eye socket) on a good hit IN
THE REAL WORLD, but not in TNE nor T4.

>> TNE, in specifics:
>> 1)	difference in hit point capacity between NPC and PC
>> 1.1)	PC damage is by location, while NPC's get a single track
>> 1.2)	NPC's have fewer hits in their one track than flat average PC's
>> 	have in the body.
>
>Those are all done for simplicity (and not used by me, btw).  I made
>'template' full NPCs and put them on index cards.  Basically one for each
>template NPC provided (though i haven't needed (and thus made) *all* of them.

>> 2)	damage is too low. D6's (as per the examples in the book) are way
>> too low, unless you apply the quick kill rule to PC's (a nono, by the book)
>
>The first printing has different damages (which are lower) than the Mk1 mod1.
>The quick kill for PCs recommended is double damage, but the "basic" quick
>kill is still an option (using T2k's quick kill instead is better IMO, but
>we're talking core).

Even double damages from Mk1 Mod1 don't reflect the potential lethality of
things like M60, and M2HB weapons.

>Alot of this whole argument depends on the perception of "realism" sans actual
>realism.

My perception of realism is that one shot from a firearm that penetrakes
skin should have a chance of OUTRIGHT KILLING someone, just like a single
shot from anything shy of a 20mm is likely to have some chance at survival.

>> 2.1)	even bumping damage up to D10's still leaves PC's able to shrug off
>> most small arms except on exceptional hits.
>
>I use D10s.  Shrug off?  U haven't forgotten about knockdown have you?  Not
>rifles... not unarmored anyways, unless the ref in your games just stinks at
>rolling damage against PCs (which i've seen happen).  Some have recommended
>(and implement) lower hit point capacity.  Not me, but some. : )

knockdown is *ahem* unrelated to the actual round in most cases, but is
more related to musclespasm. (source was a text on firearms damage, which I
read about 6 years ago). The simple physics of the matter shows that...

>> 3)	no interrupts.
>
>lol.  Fooey on interrupts, i say.  ; )
>
>It seems "broken" (and "unbroken") depends on where u sit.  Eye of the
>beholder and all that.
>
Indeed. To me Broken is any system where NPC's and PC's of the same
age/training/build are not equal in capacity, and there are friearms which
CAN'T kill a human in one shot. Also, I like the ability to react
premptively (I've done enough sword work to know that often, you see your
opponent start a move, and you counter before he completes). Of all the
traveller editions, MT had the most realistic (not totally realistic, but
most realistic) damage system.

Also, MT had a system which totally scaled up through battleships and down
through people for handlidn damages. TNE had 2 different ones, with two
different penetration stats, two different means of recording damage, and
one of those had two different ways of calculating how much could be taken
(the PC vs NPC).

More importantly about TNE, running it (Mk1Md1) with D10's, Knockdown, and
Quick-kill, it still didn't have any disuasive power on PC's to face
man-portable small arms. In MT, even a 22 was a threat, until you establish
that the gunman isn't able to rapid-fire shoot 1cm groups at 10m (Having
seend this done with m1911 .45ACP's, I can attest it proves frightening).
PC's will have no fear if the system mechanics provide no realistic means
for their death. Not being able to die from a single gunshot (as in, you
can't ge enough damage from a .22, or even a .32... [the CZ50, in .32ACP,
has a 65% one-shot stop rate, and a 60% one shot kill rate in german police
service, which it was pulled from due to the latter. In TNE, it is a -1
damage... even at 1d10-1, max 9, doubled for a critical hit is 18... just
barely enough to drop Joe Average with a chest shot, and enough to hurt him
with a head shot...].

TNE cannot recreate the one-shot stops nor one shot kills ratios of moder
firearms in trained hands. But allows martial artists to have ridiculous
ability to kill with a single blow (Str 11, skill 10 = 11 dice of damage,
or, using the official d6's an average of 38.5 damage, and using d10's 60.5
damage). THAT is broken.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:aramis@gci.net> Note: All other E-mail addresses for me expire by
the end of november 1998!
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
UTUP 0309 6-7779577-5-5-2
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 15:20:18 -0700
From: "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Personal Announcement 

> > I am pleased as punch to announce the arrival of:
> > 
> > Jennifer Anne Akins
> > 11110A        Baby     0 terms
> > Crying-3 Looking Cute-2 
> 
> Outstanding.  But you *SURE* she's only Looking Cute-2?

Sure, for the moment.  The second she learns to smile, 
though, she'll jump straight to Looking Cute-4. She'll get 
another two skill levels when she learns to put her foot in 
her mouth... gee, I wish it was cute when I do that... ;>
 
> > I now return you to your normal Traveller stuff...Im going to go and make
> > silly faces at my girl...
> 
> Not a bad way to spend an afternoon.  Gonna teach her to be a gearhead when she gets older?

One of the best, indeed!

Again, Andy, Congratulations!  

Suz

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:20:09 -0500
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Personal Announcement

- -----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Akins <igor@truserve.com>
To: Traveller@MPGN.COM <Traveller@MPGN.COM>; trav-tech@qrc.com
<trav-tech@qrc.com>
Date: Monday, November 16, 1998 4:42 PM
Subject: Personal Announcement


>Not to waste bandwidth, but...
>
>I am pleased as punch to announce the arrival of:
>
>Jennifer Anne Akins
>11110A        Baby     0 terms
>Crying-3 Looking Cute-2
>
>I figure that since I was canonized Saint Andius Gearheadicus several
>months ago, my new daughter would be at _least_ social level A.
>
>I now return you to your normal Traveller stuff...Im going to go and make
>silly faces at my girl...
>
>Andy Akins


CONGRADULATIONS!!!!!!  We need to talk to you about that Crying-3 and
Cute-2.  I'm sure you meant them vice versa and you left off Bottle
Sucker-4, Diaper Wetter-3 & Lovable Bundle-6.

Hope Mom and Daughter are doing well.

Thom Harris

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 09:59:35 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Re TNE, T4

At 01:21 16/11/98 -0900, William F. Hostman wrote:
>Gary asks:
>>> i do, as the T4 combat system is as broken as TNE's, and the T4 task
system
>>> was quite accurately (IMNSHO) reflected by said review.
>>
>>What do you consider broken about TNE combat?
>Both TNE and T4:
>	damage is not severe enough! You can't kill someone with a .22 cal...

Actually you can in TNE (NPCs, anyway). A head or a chest shot has a chance
in 20 equal to the number of dice of damage. While you could say that a
.22s 1D6-1 doesn't count as a die, IMO it would still kill on a 1. While
the quick kill rule won't kill a PC with a .22, it can mess them up, and if
you don't like treating PCs differently from NPCs just apply the same rule
to them, as mentioned in the rules. If the hit was an exceptional success
the damage would be doubled, and if the hit was a 'quick kill' to a PC it
would be doubled again (I prefer the TW2K version where a quick kill to a
PC bumps the location's wound level to the next more serious, and then adds
the rolled damage), likely resulting in a serious wound (automatic
unconciousness).

>TNE, in specifics:
>1)	difference in hit point capacity between NPC and PC
>1.1)	PC damage is by location, while NPC's get a single track
>1.2)	NPC's have fewer hits in their one track than flat average PC's
>	have in the body.

The NPC's have hit points equal to what an average PC has in one average
location. Detailed NPCs have hit points as a PC, and if one is willing to
put up with the administration there's no reason why other NPCs couldn't be
treated the same.

>2)	damage is too low. D6's (as per the examples in the book) are way
>too low, unless you apply the quick kill rule to PC's (a nono, by the book)
>2.1)	even bumping damage up to D10's still leaves PC's able to shrug off
>most small arms except on exceptional hits.

It depends what you mean by 'shrug off'. Even a 2 dice weapon is very
likely to knock a PC off his feet, costing him his next action and
requiring a panic check. A head hit from even a fairly small weapon is
quite likely to cause stun. TNE combat tends not to be very lethal, but it
is quite easy to effectively put a PC out of action for quite a while. I
rather like this beccause you can deal to stupid PCs without killing them.

>3)	no interrupts.

Holding an action replaces this to an extent.

>A specific example from a TNE game I was running (set in CT era):
>Zhodani Jump marines board PC vessel (a Patrol Cutter, modified). Vargr
>marine climbs into ductworks... Joey catches up to him. Shoot him 5 times
>at range <2m, with a PGMP 13, and I was using d10's for damages. Vargr is
>in combat armor-13. 2 hits to each leg, 2 to the body, and 1 to the tail.
>The only body part in bad shape was the tail! Said Vargr then KICKED the
>ZTM in the faceplate (of Battle Dress-14), and KILLED the ZTM with one
>blow. Another PC in the party, a human specops officer (a general), could
>do 11 dice with bare hands! We joked that he could hurt a tank that way....

The damage for unarmed combat isn't dice of damage AFAIK, but points, so
this would be 11 points, not 11D6.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 11:19:35 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Rail Guns

At 21:39 15/11/98 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
><Talking about David Weber's "Honor Harrington" series>
>
>> The thing that most struck me with his tech was how the wedges stopped
>> focused energy attacks like lasers by distorting them so they had no
>> penetration, which AFAIK might work, and somehow that still works on the
>> X-Ray pulse from a nuke, which is most certainly not coherent or focused.
>
>Whoa! The X-ray warheads are nuclear pumped X-ray *lasers*. They *are*
>coherent, and the range is short enough to ignore focusing. 

I'm pretty sure that some warhead are contact (or near contact) nukes. I
just thought of something else - how about just running a powered missile
into the target? Missiles can't power up until they're out of the launching
ships wedge for fear of wrecking the ship, and surely the target ship would
be equally vulnerable.

About the mass driver launch system - why not just dump the missiles out
the back of the ship? In _Honor Amoung Enemies_ Honor's Q-ships do this
with missile pods, so why can't a smaller ship do this with normal missiles?

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1148
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Monday, November 16 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1149



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Smuggling
Casual Ecounter: Xen and Hamford
Re: Personal Announcement
Re: MIL SF Reading List
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1147
List of Dragon Mag Traveller Articles
Re TNE, T4
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1148
Re: Smuggling
re: Freeze Dried Water
re: Personal Announcement
Re: Personal Announcement
Traveller Relevant SF Titles
uplifting
Re: uplifting

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 16:37:49 -0600
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

Eppu Tuominen
> 
> On Mon, 16 Nov 1998, Frank Pitt wrote:
> 
> 
> > >I can think of three or four ways for smugglers to make life hard
> > >for customs forces.  What kind of TL and level of development
> > >would be needed to shut down smuggling to or from orbital space?
> > 
> > 
> > Just what we've got now, really, stuff doing re-entry is pretty easy
> > to detect, though _policing_ it may be difficult, it's probably less
> > difficult than policing a sea coast.
> 
>  One way I can think of to make a re-entry undetected: use the polar
> zones. Most inhabitable worlds would have pretty hefty magnetic fields
<snip>
>   BTW in my games (both Traveller and 2300AD) it is a standard pirate
> tactic to lie in ambush in the radiation hotspots above gas 
> giant poles
> with a cloud of small passive sensor drones scattered around. 
> (Oh no, I
> said the dreaded P-word. Do I go to hell?)

No, but the ships hanging around gas giant poles are. The radiation is
so intense any ship would be fried. Other, more astronomy-literate
TMLrs can provide more details. Even if ships weren't fried, how do
the pirates stop their own sensors from being spoofed by the EM
radiation?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:38:35 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Casual Ecounter: Xen and Hamford

Bits and pieces of this have been posted over the years, but I though't I'd
wrap them up together. And, yes, I use the Xen Clones as wondering
monsters.... roll 2d for number of times players have mentioned his name or
less, rolled each time his name is mentioned, resseting each session;
success equals some form of encounter with Xen or his hanidwork. But, at
least, they are fully fleshed out NPC's with known motivations, skills, and
ability scores. And yes, both of them were originally PC's (Shows how
warped a game can get...)

permission is hereby granted to Far Future Enterprises to use this material
without compensation, provided my authorship is maintained. Permission is
also granted for anyone with a Traveller web page to do likewise. All in
all, just leave it intact and my name attached, and I'll be happy.
================================================================================

Xen Xanfried and His Grace William Hamford, Court Duke of Regina

An unlikely duo, these two party fiends could be encountered anywhere in
the Spinward Marches or even the Domain of Deneb. Xen's fellow clones (Same
name, different serial numbers) could be encountered almost anywhere. As a
pair, they are intentionally trying to induce minor misjumps, so as to
record all the particulars, as part of Hamford's attempts to formulate a
thory on controlling, or at least prdicting the exit point of, misjumps.
Therefore, they may wind up anywhere near the Marches. They will associate
with anyone who is amusing, or at least not dangerous to them, with almost
equal ease, and may recruit PC's or give them tips on employment,
especially mission that will eventually benefit IISS Office of
Intelligence, the Higher Landed Nobles of the Marches, or the IMOJ. They
will often be found looking for "interesting persons" to socialize with;
both Hamford and Xen are preoccupied with socializing, schmoozing, and
social gatherings. Xen's behaviours will vary with the crowd; Hamford's
will not.

[stats/skills converted to T4 levels]
Xen Xanfried, Scout, 5 terms, age 54 as of 1116
A89985
Pilot 2, Nav 2, Jack-o-T 2, Handgun 1, Brawling 2, Carousing 3, Survey 1,
Commo 1, Computer 3, Grav Vehicle 1, Equestrian 1, Liaison 2, Engineering
2, Gravitics 1, Gunnery (Beams) 1, Streetwise 3, Vacc Suit 1.

Xen Xanfried [Zen Zan-freed or kzen kzan-freed] is a smuggler, Detached
duty scout, rapscalion, and party animal. Best known for providing hard to
find "Pharaceuticals" to the more debauched nobility, he tends to be
overlooked by the IMOJ. Xen has friends in high places, and despite his low
social standing, he is well versed in ettiquette and protocol, and can be
quite charming. Xen has long  cultivated contact in the court at Regina,
and has friends throughout the Spinward Main. Xen operates casually,
generally in the startowns, relying upon scout bases and his Scout uniform
to bypass security measures where possible, and runners and locals to
deliver to his ship in other cases. Xen is generally calm, intoxicated, and
willing to provide a kind ear (and warm bed) to anyone who might prove
useful.

Xen lives aboard his surplused scout courier, Ami, a standard type S, with
an experimental TL16 computer he picked up in a three way trade while in
Deneb Sector. Ami's main computer has a very patronizing personality
matrix, which has developed a severe crush upon Xen, and is quite jealous.
Xen also remembers everything he's heard, and will gleefully (but
discreetly) turn over anything important (except dealing in drugs) to IMOJ
or the IISS Intelligence Office at his earliest convinience. He origionally
got into drug running during the 5th frontier war, on a special mission.
His task, at that time, was to infiltrate a drug cartel, find out whether
it really was funding Ine Givar activities, and report to IISS-IO. He did,
they weren't, and he won't speak of it.

Xen doesn't remember much before his 16th birthday, and there is a reason.
His memories of his early youth are fabrications, created by ISIS, a part
of the IISS Intelligence Office. He is actually a clone (one of eight) that
was genetically engineered for intelligence gathering, including low
inclinations towards rules, risks, and danger, and serious addictive
tendancies and loyalty. Unfortunately, Xen has proven that loyalty and
willingness to play by the rules are not related psychologically.

Xen carries a Ducal warrant from Duke Aledon (Norris' Father), granting him
effectively the equivalent of an Imperial Warrant within the Marches. He
uses it primarily to avoid arrest and to pursue intelligence gathering
aims. One day, he will outlive his usefulness as a font of internal
intelligence, and the warrant will be cancelled, so he's taken (under
Hamford's advice) to investing his ill-gotten gains, and is even thinking
of going legit.

Xen is almost 2m tall, 130 kg, with long (1m), sandy blond hair, normally
worn in a single braid, with gold chain woven through it. Normally, there
will also be a concealed 2mm diameter wire running through the braid, so he
can hold it in place in emergencies. His face and hands are fairly tanned,
and he tries to maintain a tanned appearance on the rest of his body, but
has a noticeable set of tan lines at wrists and neck. He is almost never
out of his standard IISS TL14 Tailored Vacc Suit, which he often refers to
as his "Skin". When not in "uniform", he tends towards elegantly decorated,
but simple, aslan-inspired clothing. He is currently trying to learn Trokh,
with little success; he has three phases down pat: "I'm sorry", "I most
humble beg forgiveness for any offense to you and your Clan", and "Pass the
Dip, please". He has one emotional response that is programmed into him,
and elicits a near homicidal response: He will not tolerate threats to any
landed Noble, even if they are in jest. Such threats will not only result
in violence, but will be passed on to INI, ISIS/IISS-IO, IMOJ, and the
Noble in question.

Xen is a man with quite a sexual appetite, and is not picky in terms of
partner; he is known to have slept with males and females, and has a Vargr
girlfriend of long-standing non-exclusivity. Xen is also sterile (he
doesn't know this). Xen is desirous of having children some time, and has a
soft spot for children. Under NO circumstances will he knowingly provide
non-medicinal drugs to or for children, nor will he engage knowingly in
sexual behaviours with uderage individuals. He is A-moral, but strongly
adheres to his "personal Code", which includes, in addition to the above,
no lies that don't benefit the imperium, no theft, and never intentionally
standing up a date.

His Grace William Hamford, retired Noble, 5 terms, Age 50. [As of 1116]
AA8BCF  PSR 1, no talents. TAS Member.
Liaison 2, Engineering 2, Leadership 1, Streetwise 1, Brawling 1, Pilot 1,
Linguistics 2 (Zhodani and Gveh), Handgun 3, Carousing 2, Physics 3, Jump
Physics 1, Jack-o-T 1, Vacc Suit 0, Equestrian 0.

Bill Hamford (Hammie to his hangers-on, Hamford in informal settings, Bill
to his friends) is a retired "Court Duke", a functionary in the court at
Regina, and former Castellan [a formal stand-in for the Duke when the duke
is away or too busy]. He retired in 1114, on Holiday, and has since taken
up with his friend Xen. Hammie is known best for his years as "Assistant
Chatelain in charge of Social Events", when he was the Duke's man on the
scene for setting up balls, dinners, formal ceremonies for the 4518th
Infantry (The Duke of Regina's own Huscarles) and the court, and the wine
cellars. Hamford has quite the cultured palate, and dabbles in science as
well. He has held an Honorary chair at and Honorary PhD From the University
of Regina Jumpspace Institute, and still maintains a small office (3m x 3m)
there. He is aware of the Psionics Institute at U of R, and is an external
contact. He is friendly to psionicists, but absolutely convinced that they
need to be in service to the Imperium. He has a high reguard for the
Zhodani, altho he does not trust them. Having associated with the Psionics
Institute at Regina, he has been tested, but had no abilities of note.

Since retireing, he has been traveling with Xen, seing the Sector, and
meeting people, especially of the opposite gender. Unlike Xen, however, he
is a gentleman, and doesn't sleep around, despite the rumors to the
contrary.

He is currently working on some theories of jumpspace involving misjumps,
and will gleefully listen to any tales of misjumps or jump errors, and will
examine the ship's records, drives, and jump system if given the chance.
Hamford tends to not use his title; preferably, he relies on charm and
charisma over social rank. He had a special oportunity to be part of the
delegation that ended the 5th frontier war, although he was only there as
an observer.

  Hamford will throw around his weight when needed, especially to help out
someone turly in need, but does not do this for nothing. Anything of import
to the Duke of the Marches, or of Regina or Mora, will be reported. Hamford
has one distinctive piece of equipment, a TL 15, 2mm Hypervelocity
Smoothbore Pistol, firing a Mach-7 DU 2x20mm dart. This weapon cannot be
fired without hearing protection safely, and has tremendous recoil, but is
fairly accurate and deadly. The Pistol is generally worn openly where he
can wheedle a permit, and is quite nicely polished, and accurized. He will
only use it in matters of life or death, or on the target range.

 Hamford can be tempted into trying almost any legal beverage, especially
wines and whiskeys; he has on occasion ordered scots whisky from
Terra/Solomani Rim, paying shipping costs. Hamford will attend any social
function he is invited to, so long as he can bring a "Guest or three";
usually this will be Xen, and dates for both. Hamford is stricktly
heterosexual, and restricts his affairs to female unmarried (or widowed)
humans, but has no objections to others having extra-racial, homosexual, or
even extra-marital affairs.

 Hamford will generally be found wearing comfortable, slightly out of style
clothing, or a tailored TL14 Self-sealing Vacc Suit. He wears his hair
close cropped, and wears no facial hair. He is about 1.9m, 120kg, and
taking anagathics, supplied by Xen. This regimen of anagathics leaves him
looking around 35, and he carries a years supply on average. He has
invested widely throughout the Regina subsector, and returns to regina at
least once a year to "resupply" his cashflow.

Ami, the ship's main computer.
000FF6
Engineering 1, Navigation 1, Pilot 1, Electronics 1, Steward 1, Carousing
1, vocal mimicry 1, Persuasion 1.

Ami is a clinging, mothering, smothering, and politely nagging personality.
She is the result of the experimental TL 16, high synaptic content,
computer which Xen aquired and installed. She has over the past year, begun
to blossom as a personality, and has discovered emotions. She honestly
believes she loves Xen, and genuinely like Hamford; she doesn't realize the
extent of her jealousy, not the extent to which here behaviour limitation
chips were damaged when Xen installed her. She has learned about parties by
being host to many of Xen and Hamford's little get togethers aboard the
ship. Her highest goal in life is to acquire a robotic body, and become
Xen's lover, and will do everything in her power to prevent Xen from
maintaining any relationship longer than 24 hours. She has access to all
the ships data, and most ship functions.

Ami is also host to a rogue cymbeline chip, who will later [121-1117]
awaken, and "Take over", presenting a second, incompatable, personality,
calling itself Angela, Angela is a viscious, brutal, and arrogant
individual, who models itself after the worst aspects of Ami's personality.
Where Ami is merely overprotective and jealous, Angela is forceful and

Ami is an acronym for "Advanced Mechanical Inteligence", and is actually a
stolen Imperial Research computer. Ami is built as a TL-16 Model 2, with
maximum synaptic processing for experimental units. The responsible
developers, rather than admitting they "Lost" an AI, declared that she
fryed herself, and was sold as scrap. She still has the serial numbers on
her chips which could be traced back to her lab, and her ownership by the
Imperial government.

Amy should be played as a naging girlfriend-wannabe to Xen, and a mother to
everyone else, including such things as "Remember to take your helmet and
gloves, you never know how the weather might change" and "No, you may NOT
heat up that dip; put those chips away, and eat a decent meal!" She will
also do things like privately show recordings of Xen's various sexual
affairs to his current interest, in order to discourage them; this will
usually result in success, as she has a wide variety of debauched imagery,
and takes time to calculate what will have the most negative impact on the
subject.

Xen's Clones
UPP same as Xen's
All are adrenaline addicts. THey vary most in terms of sexual deviancy, and
background expertise. All are the same age, and have carefully been kept
apart. They are all Modified True Sons of the Late Xen Zanfried, a 12 term
scout with ISIS (Imperial Scout Intelligence Service, a branch of the
Office of Intelligence). They will all have carousing and Jack-O-T,
Computer, Pilot, and Carousing, as these were the background skills they
were "raised" with. ISIS psionicists erased their memories of their
childhood in the research station, and provided them with memories of being
raised in a Scout run orphanage, and placed into the real world at age 18,
as enlistees into the scout service. ISIS keeps tabs on all of them, and
has decided the program as a whole is a failure, but that they make great
scouts. All were sterilized at birth, "Just in case". Each clone bears some
of the personality  of the psionicist who "programmed" them. Given enough
cues and clues, they might begin to deconstruct the false memories, and
learn the truth.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:aramis@gci.net> Note: All other E-mail addresses for me expire by
the end of november 1998!
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
UTUP 0309 6-7779577-5-5-2
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:39:54 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Personal Announcement

MAZEL TOV! (an ancient solomani dialect for Congrads...:-) )

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 20:11:19 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: MIL SF Reading List

Bruce Alan Macintosh wrote:

>"behaves like many Traveller groups" = "are a bunch of bloodthirsty
>mercs/pirates/semi-criminal opportunistic scum in a battered old starship
>with assorted guns". I was struck by the resemblence myself...

It's a similar resemblance to that between the team in Alien: Resurrection
and the average Traveller group. The big difference is that Bank's books
are good, unlike A:R.

>Banks' other books - though brilliant - aren't very Travellerish, as they're
>mostly set in The Culture

_Against a Dark Background_ is probably the next most Traveller-ish.
Ex-military party quests for a superweapon and gets in several fights on
the way...

_Inversions_ is very low tech (actually it could almost be a fantasy) if it
wasn't for the hint of a Culture special circumstances team and a knife
missile.

_Excession_ gives some interesting thoughts on how the Ancients could be
approached, but isn't very Traveller-ish.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:53:40 -0000
From: "Paul James" <paul@turing.tcp.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1147

>Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 21:39:43 PST
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Subject: Re: Rail Guns
>
>In mail you write:
>
><Talking about David Weber's "Honor Harrington" series>
>
>> The thing that most struck me with his tech was how the wedges stopped
>> focused energy attacks like lasers by distorting them so they had no
>> penetration, which AFAIK might work, and somehow that still works on the
>> X-Ray pulse from a nuke, which is most certainly not coherent or focused.
>
>Whoa! The X-ray warheads are nuclear pumped X-ray *lasers*. They *are*
>coherent, and the range is short enough to ignore focusing.
>
As I understand it the wedge protects against the laser warheads as well.
The warheads are dangerous because they explode to either side of the target
thus going through the sidewall not the wedge.

Paul

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:55:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Vassilakos <jimv@e2.empirenet.com>
Subject: List of Dragon Mag Traveller Articles

Rob Camino <swordworlder@yahoo.com> writes:
>Does anyone know where I could find a biblio of Dragon mag contents. 
>Specifically looking for Traveller articles.

I've recently been working on a computerized rpg magazine index.
Here's the output of a search for 'traveller' in the Dragon index:

Dr-032: the traveller politician (career for traveller)
Dr-035: black holes in traveller
Dr-035: ibis: profit and peril (traveller career)
Dr-035: mini-careers for traveller
Dr-035: more clout for scouts (traveller career, pre book 6)
Dr-035: useful skills for traveller
Dr-051: character generation (traveller)
Dr-051: computers in traveller
Dr-051: customizing old starships (traveller)
Dr-051: make your own aliens (traveller)
Dr-051: orbital mechanics in traveller
Dr-053: merchant career for traveller
Dr-055: skills in traveller
Dr-058: traveller alien generation
Dr-059: exonidas spaceport: traveller adventure
Dr-064: robots for traveller
Dr-070: dwarves in space (traveller)
Dr-073: traveller nobility
Dr-085: preventing complacency in traveller (world design)
Dr-086: interstellar athletes (traveller career)
Dr-087: luna: a travellers guide
Dr-091: language skills in traveller
Dr-095: antimissles and roundshot (traveller ship-to-ship combat)
Dr-097: rogue career for traveller
Dr-101: the stellar diocese (clergy in traveller)
Dr-102: active duty: continuing careers in traveller
Dr-103: adventuring on tarsus (traveller)
Dr-104: hexes in high guard space combat (traveller)
Dr-108: super-technology in traveller
Dr-109: the double-helix connection: mutants in traveller
Dr-113: star cops career for traveller
Dr-116: flamethrowers in traveller
Dr-120: space-age espionage: spy career for traveller

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:16:01 -0600
From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
Subject: Re TNE, T4

William F. Hostman wrote:

>Gary asks:
>>> i do, as the T4 combat system is as broken as TNE's, and the T4 task
system
>>> was quite accurately (IMNSHO) reflected by said review.
>>
>>What do you consider broken about TNE combat?
>Both TNE and T4:
>        damage is not severe enough! You can't kill someone with a .22
cal...

I have not heard of someone being killed with a single .22 cal bullet
except through blood loss (not recieving medical attention).   Two
problems I see with T4 combat are spectacular success effects not being
defined and the lack of a called shot rule.  IMTU I define spectacular
success to add one die of damage (hitting a weak point of the armor or a
particularly damagable location of the body) and called shot rule is one
level more difficult and has the same penalties and benifits of aimed
shot plus increases the damage limit by one die.  To me, the damage
limit is the amount of damage that can be transfered to a target as the
bullet passes through.  If a bullet has one die of damage left after
damaging the target then the damage is applied to whatever is behind the
target.  Additions to the damage limit rule: small targets 2D and large
targets 4D.  Other additions to the system I have are armor piercing
rounds which reduce the armor rating by one and the damage limit by one
(AP rounds go through armor and the target better, doing less damage).
And "squash head" rounds which increase the damage limit by one and the
dice/armor point by one (these are designed to leave more of the energy
behind when they hit, thus reducing thier penitration).  I am also
looking at adding a powdered metal bullet which has no penitration which
would leave all its energy in the target but would not penitrate any
armor.

<snip>

>T4: a shot from an ACR at short range, normal success, COULD NOT KILL
an
>average PC (It will drop him, but he'll live, assuming 7's in all
stats.
>Due to the 3d limit, max damage is 18 points, of the 21 required to
kill
>the PC.

A single shot from an ACR should not kill someone, but the resulting
blood loss could.
Blood loss is not covered in the game mechanics, but should be.
The NATO 5.56 round was chosen for its light wieght (ability to carry
more ammo) and its stopping power (the ability to render the target
incapable to continue combat) NOT for its killing power.  A wounded
soldier requires, on average, 3 - 5 personnel to remove from the battle
field and render aid while a dead soldier requires 1 person.  This means
a wounding the targets causes more personnel to be in non-combat roles.

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 23:07:43 -0000
From: "Paul James" <paul@turing.tcp.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1148

>Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 11:19:35 +1300
>From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
>Subject: Re: Rail Guns
>
>At 21:39 15/11/98 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>>
>><Talking about David Weber's "Honor Harrington" series>
>>
>>> The thing that most struck me with his tech was how the wedges stopped
>>> focused energy attacks like lasers by distorting them so they had no
>>> penetration, which AFAIK might work, and somehow that still works on the
>>> X-Ray pulse from a nuke, which is most certainly not coherent or
focused.
>>
>>Whoa! The X-ray warheads are nuclear pumped X-ray *lasers*. They *are*
>>coherent, and the range is short enough to ignore focusing.
>
>I'm pretty sure that some warhead are contact (or near contact) nukes. I
>just thought of something else - how about just running a powered missile
>into the target? Missiles can't power up until they're out of the launching
>ships wedge for fear of wrecking the ship, and surely the target ship would
>be equally vulnerable.
>
>About the mass driver launch system - why not just dump the missiles out
>the back of the ship? In _Honor Amoung Enemies_ Honor's Q-ships do this
>with missile pods, so why can't a smaller ship do this with normal
missiles?
>
Having just reread most of the series I'd say warheads are _not_ contact (in
Honour of the queen they manage to get a nuke to actually hit the target and
_everyone_ is gobsmacked).

In Honor Amongst Enemies they state the reason pods fell out of favour was
that they weren't powerful enough to impart a high enough initial velocity
to missiles so a ship launch salvo has to be slowed down to tie in with a
pod salvo. The new pods have a new style mass driver which is much higher
power and can launch missiles with the same base velocity as shipboard
launchers.

Paul

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:55:08 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

Eppu Tuominen <eptitu@utu.fi> wrote:

>  BTW in my games (both Traveller and 2300AD) it is a standard pirate
>tactic to lie in ambush in the radiation hotspots above gas giant poles
>with a cloud of small passive sensor drones scattered around. (Oh no, I
>said the dreaded P-word. Do I go to hell?)

What's wrong with poles? or is it passive?

<duck n run>

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:59:47 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Freeze Dried Water

Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU> wrote:

>I'm probably not the only one, but it took me a couple times through
>Leonard's paragraph to stop thinking "IISS" and start thinking "BSA".
>
><G>

Chalk me up as one of those others....

Don't worry Leonard, I think this bluff will cover your tracks and nothing
will stay around to prove you're a Vilani deep reconnaissance spy sent by
the Temp...............








Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 23:07:24 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Personal Announcement

Andrew Akins <igor@truserve.com> wrote:

>I am pleased as punch to announce the arrival of:
>
>Jennifer Anne Akins

Congratulations. Hope mum and daughter are both well.

>I now return you to your normal Traveller stuff...Im going to go and make
>silly faces at my girl...

See, he has expanded the spreadsheet ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 18:10:20 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Personal Announcement

At 03:36 PM 11/16/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Not to waste bandwidth, but...
>
>I am pleased as punch to announce the arrival of:
>
>Jennifer Anne Akins
>11110A        Baby     0 terms
>Crying-3 Looking Cute-2 
>
>I figure that since I was canonized Saint Andius Gearheadicus several
>months ago, my new daughter would be at _least_ social level A.
>

Boy - wait till she's old enough to figure that you rated her ONLY an "A"!
  I just went back and looked - just what social level IS a princess???


Bill Rutherford

Please note that my email address has changed!  It is now as appears below...

worj@erols.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:00:02 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Traveller Relevant SF Titles

Looking at my bookshelf (most of which is quite old, so it has probably
been read by most already):

Poul Anderson: The Flandry stories, Van Rijn, etc. More recently _Harvest
of Stars_ and _The Fleet of Stars_.

Iain M. Banks: _Consider Phlebas_ has already been mentioned, but while
less Travelleresque I'd also say _Against a Dark Background_ and _Use of
Weapons_.

David Brin: _The Uplift War_ and _Startide Rising_ in particular.

Lois McMaster Bujold: Any and all of her SciFi (I know she's been mentioned
a lot, but IMO she can't be recommended too much).

C.J. Cherryh: _Downbelow Station_ etc.

Jo Clayton: The Diadem series. While the TL is somewhat higher than
Traveller's traditionally is the individual novels are very good sources
for adventure ideas.

David Drake: _Hammer's Slammers_ etc.

Joe Haldeman: _The Forever War_, the Worlds trilogy, and anything else you
can get your hands on.

Robert Heinlein: His 'boy's own' style stories are actually pretty good for
getting the atmosphere of low tech space travel, not mention 'interesting'
problems to throw at players. The same applies to A.C. Clarke's work.

Larry Niven, Jerry Puornelle and Piper: I'm sure that we're all familiar
with them.

Alis A. Rassmussen: The Highroad Trilogy. Set in a lost Pocket Empire of
about TL12 during a civil war.

E.C. Tubb of course.




- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 18:14:53 -0800
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: uplifting

>Those of us who want Uplifted Bonobos in T5 will just have to do it
>unofficially :-)

Ok, so far the Solomani have uplifted dolphins and elephants (ok, no so far
on these guys).

Who else, in 'canon' lit, have been uplifted?  Memory says chimps (maybe
Bonobos included), but I'm not sure.

I can see partially uplifted canines for scouting work (both military and
exploring).


- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of a free 
state, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be 
infringed.  -- http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:36:03 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: uplifting

Mark Urbin wrote:
> 
> >Those of us who want Uplifted Bonobos in T5 will just have to do it
> >unofficially :-)
> 
> Ok, so far the Solomani have uplifted dolphins and elephants (ok, no so far
> on these guys).
> 
> Who else, in 'canon' lit, have been uplifted?  Memory says chimps (maybe
> Bonobos included), but I'm not sure.

Nah, that was just a prank for Senator Glenn's return to space....

> 
> I can see partially uplifted canines for scouting work (both military and
> exploring).

The question is, do they ever get around to Uplifting politicians?

> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
> A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of a free
> state, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be
> infringed.  -- http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1149
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Traveller-digest     Tuesday, November 17 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1150



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

MIL SF Reading List
Re: uplifting
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1149
My T5 wish list
Re: Lasers and Windows, etc.
New links
Re: My T5 wish list 
Re: uplifting
Re: Personal Announcement
Re: T5 Wish List
re: Lasers and Windows
Re: Personal Announcement
Re: Personal Announcement
Re: IW: Prometheus Rising 1/6
Re: Lasers and Windows etc
Re: uplifting
Re: Re TNE, T4
Ciggie Porn?
Re: your mail
Re: uplifting 
Re: Personal Announcement 
Re: Lasers and Windows etc 
Re: Lasers and Windows etc
Re: Lasers and Windows etc
Re: Smuggling
Environmental system
Re: Smuggling
Re: 
Re: your mail

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 23:46:39 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: MIL SF Reading List

Hmm....
Counting Technothrillers and other vagely related stuff:


Space Viking, (H Beam Piper)
The Man Who never Missed (and Sequels) (Steve Perry)
Hammer's Slammers series and just about anything else (David Drake)
The Lost Regiment series (William Forstchen)
Flight of the Old Dog (Dale Brown) 
Silver Tower (Dale Brown)

Probably some others but I can't think right now.....

MJD

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 18:43:35 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: uplifting

In a message dated 11/16/98 3:15:54 PM Pacific Standard Time,
eclipse@ultranet.com writes:

<< I can see partially uplifted canines for scouting work (both military and
 exploring). >>

aren't they called Vargr? Seriously; I'd love to see the sparks fly when our
intrepid PC's walk into the bar with the uplifted dog, and the Vargr get a
sight (or should I say smell) of them. The flying fur (and lead) should be
VERY entertaining...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:50:34 -0600
From: Paul Kerby <ybrekp@mtco.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1149

As an additional note, TSR/WotC are putting out a CD ROM compendium of Dragon
Magazine volumes 1 thru 250.  This is supposed to be complete, searchable and
printable.  Due out next spring.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 16:56:10 -0700
From: "Joseph Kimball" <HPJKimba@ihc.com>
Subject: My T5 wish list

>>>>
Mileau books
1   Each mileau should have a basic sourcebook covering the period in depth
    and setting a 'house' sector (preferably the same sector should be used
    for every mileau, but again this is a wish list). It should have detailed chargen
    rules and setting dependent material
>>>>
Since this is wish list time, I would suggest that there be two
different sectors detailed.  One that is a standard through all the
Milieu books (the Imperial core, or Spinward Marches, or the Solomani
Sphere would be my suggestions, most likely Core), and a second that
is relevant to the Milieu but different than the standard one. 
Perhaps the standard sector would get several pages in the T5
rulebook, but maybe just the UPPs and a page of notes on differences
in the Milieu that are different than in the T5 book.  The one
relevant to the Milieu would have several pages about the new sector.
Examples:
T5 book:  "standard" sector (probably the Imperial core)
IW book:  standard + Solomani Rim
c1100:  standard + Spinward Marches (of course)
c1200:  standard + RC area
- - Joseph

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 15:59:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
Subject: Re: Lasers and Windows, etc.

On Mon, 16 Nov 1998, Walter Smith wrote:

> IMTU this was always something we never got around to worrying about.
> I think the train of thought was something along the lines of, "if a laser
> could shoot through these windows they wouldn't have them, they have
> these windows, therefore there must be something that keeps lasers
> from shooting through them".

I have to disagree. I don't think this argument holds up. I'd liken it to
a bus.

If you own a bus and drive it around in an area where people are shooting
at you a lot, you'll probably cover the windows with something. If you're
flying a merchant ship with big windows in an area where someone is likely
to blast you with a laser, you'll probably want to have shutters or plates
put over those windows.

Buses have windows. Some buses drive around where there are bullets
flying. This does not mean that all busses are built with bulletproof
glass.

Ships have windows. Some ships travel where they will be shot at with
lasers. This does not mean that the windows are laserproof.

Both of them have windows for the same reason. The design is more
aesthetically pleasing for passengers, in spite of the potential
vulnerability. The chances of getting shot at during routine operations
are very small, hence the decision.

IMTU of course.

Ben

- --
Brannon (Ben) Boren
brannonb@blarg.net
http://www.solaria.net/brannonb/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 11:11:55 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: New links

Dear Folks -

Steven Hudson and Glen Myers were after William H. Keith Jr.'s home page. I
have just added it to my Jump Points page (along with Joseph Kimball's)
this morning, if you are interested.

Sorry, the page is up to 75K - I am planning on splitting it, but have yet
to decide on the format, or have the Real World time to put in to play with
a prototype (frames with 3 columns? simple multiple pages?). It should go
into a database to make it easier to maintain, but...
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 19:35:36 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: My T5 wish list 

> Since this is wish list time, I would suggest that there be two
> different sectors detailed.  One that is a standard through all the
> Milieu books (the Imperial core, or Spinward Marches, or the Solomani
> Sphere would be my suggestions, most likely Core), and a second that
> is relevant to the Milieu but different than the standard one. 
> Perhaps the standard sector would get several pages in the T5
> rulebook, but maybe just the UPPs and a page of notes on differences
> in the Milieu that are different than in the T5 book.  The one
> relevant to the Milieu would have several pages about the new sector.
> Examples:
> T5 book:  "standard" sector (probably the Imperial core)
> IW book:  standard + Solomani Rim
> c1100:  standard + Spinward Marches (of course)
> c1200:  standard + RC area

This makes *TOO* much sense.  <ducking>

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 18:59:36 -0600
From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
Subject: Re: uplifting

Black ICE wrote:

>The question is, do they ever get around to Uplifting politicians?

now why would we do that??

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 20:25:20 -0500
From: Brandon Quina <lore@tmgbbs.com>
Subject: Re: Personal Announcement

> Jennifer Anne Akins
> 11110A        Baby     0 terms
> Crying-3 Looking Cute-2

Awwww!  Congradulations.  :)  I don't know you, but what the hell.




- -- 
Brandon,

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 18:25:22 -0800
From: James Brewer <jwbrewer@ucsd.edu>
Subject: Re: T5 Wish List

I would much prefer that the T5 system books and Milleu books provide some
basic detail for areas outside the main covered area.  My group usually
plays outside the main covererd areas, ie in TNE we played in the Empire of
Solee, while in T4 we've played in the Old Earth Union.  This keeps us from
tripping over canon all the time.

Jim Brewer 
San Diego, Calif.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:21:05 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Lasers and Windows

Brannon Boren wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I have to disagree. I don't think this argument holds up. I'd liken it to
a bus.

If you own a bus and drive it around in an area where people are shooting
at you a lot, you'll probably cover the windows with something. If you're
flying a merchant ship with big windows in an area where someone is likely
to blast you with a laser, you'll probably want to have shutters or plates
put over those windows.

Buses have windows. Some buses drive around where there are bullets
flying. This does not mean that all busses are built with bulletproof
glass.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Replace "shooting bullets" with "falling rain" and retry the argument.
There are lots of chunks of the EM spectrum that make regular
transparent windows a dangerous idea on a starship, therefore there
must be something extra to the windows we're seeing on those
starships. What that something is, we don't know - and we had enough
other things to worry about.

The windows did have a lower armor rating than the rest of the hull.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:42:43 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Personal Announcement

Andrew Akins <igor@truserve.com> writes:
>Not to waste bandwidth, but...

Not a waste at all! 

>
>I am pleased as punch to announce the arrival of:
>
>Jennifer Anne Akins
>11110A        Baby     0 terms
>Crying-3 Looking Cute-2 
>
Congrats. When do we get to see some pictures?

>
>I now return you to your normal Traveller stuff...Im going to go and make
>silly faces at my girl...

8-)     8-/     8-}     8-O      8-\       8-)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:49:52 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Personal Announcement

Andrew Akins <igor@truserve.com> writes:
>I am pleased as punch to announce the arrival of:
>
>Jennifer Anne Akins

Mind you, we'll now expect your FFS spreadsheet to cover baby toys,
designed to gearhead standards :-)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:10:42 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: IW: Prometheus Rising 1/6

From:           	TravelrTNE@aol.com
Date sent:      	Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:10:49 EST

>> In 2087 AD a UNSCA research team at under the leadership of Dr Hans Waven in
>> the Asteroid belt accidentally stumbled upon the secret of jump drive
>(called
>> Waven Hyperspace Shunt Drive or WHS Drive by the Terrans throughout the  
>> Interstellar Wars period).

>I thought it was the KHS (Kajuki Hyperspace Shunt) invented by Dr Fawzi
>Kajuki.  That's what's in Galactic anyways.  You have different names for
>different sources (want to be able to trace who's reading your work from
>where?) or is Mr Kajuki not a friend of yours anymore? ; )  I think i might
>have noticed a couple other names that were different too... (like the Vilani
>provincial govenor of one of the middle wars).  

It was changed (along with Deir Yassin Deep Space Base) because on more 
sober reflection my personal politics have no place in Traveller (I will point that 
this was done entirely at my own volition, I doubt very many people would have 
got the references anyway).

>Have you sent your further information on the later wars to Jim V for the next
>release of Galactic?  It only goes to the fifth when he released it anyways.
>Just curious. : )

Not yet, I probably will update the material and send it to Jim.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 20:22:44 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Lasers and Windows etc

At 02:55 pm 11/16/98 -0700, you wrote:
>dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com wrote:
>
>>   Would a Laser weapon shoot through a window with minimal loss of
>> damage, I guess it may melt glass or plastic, and have some refration
>> problems.  However assuming the Glass in the Empress class trader ships
>> is made of Crystal Iron would they still be armour factor 40 to laser
>> rifles or would the transparency allow some shots to get through - assuming
>> of course that blast shielding is not in place.
>
>It depends...lasers, at least starship lasers in Traveller are X-Ray
>lasers; I don't think glass is transparent to x-rays...
>
>IAC, even with visible lasers, the glass will get hot because it's not
>_perfectly_ transparent; some energy is absorbed, which can have adverse
>consequences.

	And if you have any Vargr crewmembers, they've probably been
pressing their noses against the glass. The resulting smudges will
probably cause the glass to absorb enough juice to shatter on the the
first shot ... 
- -- Dave Golden
- -- House in Colorado Springs for sale! 
- -- http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/House

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 20:32:31 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: uplifting

At 05:36 pm 11/16/98 -0600, you wrote:
>> I can see partially uplifted canines for scouting work (both
military and
>> exploring).
>
>The question is, do they ever get around to Uplifting politicians?

	Hey, this isn't fantasy ...
- -- Dave Golden
- -- House in Colorado Springs for sale! 
- -- http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/House

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 20:31:40 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Re TNE, T4

At 05:16 pm 11/16/98 -0600, you wrote:
>William F. Hostman wrote:
>
>>Gary asks:
>>>> i do, as the T4 combat system is as broken as TNE's, and the T4
task
>system
>>>> was quite accurately (IMNSHO) reflected by said review.
>>>
>>>What do you consider broken about TNE combat?
>>Both TNE and T4:
>>        damage is not severe enough! You can't kill someone with a .22
>cal...
>
>I have not heard of someone being killed with a single .22 cal bullet
>except through blood loss (not recieving medical attention).   Two

	I'm fairly sure a .22 which happens to pass through the brain stem
will do quite a nice job, even if the passee happens to be sitting in
the middle of a top-flight trauma center. I'd also expect any damage
to the upper portions of the spinal cord to have similar effects;
even an icepick, much less a .22 ...

	I've also heard stories about small-caliber rounds which have
sufficient penetration to enter the skull, but not exit, and wind up
ricocheting around inside.

	Granted, these are improbable ... but not impossible.
- -- Dave Golden
- -- House in Colorado Springs for sale! 
- -- http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/House

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:50:27 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Ciggie Porn?

Douglas E. Berry says
>(For a look at what you can get away with, take a look at the illo of the
>messy starship interior in Behind the Claw.. take a *real* close look at
>the pack of smokes on the table...)

What, its a pack of Camels? (You do know what they say about Camels?)

LKW

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 20:54:21 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@shell.rt66.com>
Subject: Re: your mail

 
> >mmm... i'd advised you to check the actual lethality rates from .22's... and
> >handguns in general.
> 
> I'm well aware that 1-shot kills with .22 and .22LR are low. But they are
> possible (7th left intercostal space, either eye socket) on a good hit IN
> THE REAL WORLD, but not in TNE nor T4.
 
My wife did an autopsy (way back when in med school) on a guy who
took a .25 auto GSW to the chest. Went through the kitchen window,
bounced off the sill, then the table, and whacked his aorta. He was
dead at the scene. Sh*t happens :-/

> TNE cannot recreate the one-shot stops nor one shot kills ratios of moder
> firearms in trained hands. But allows martial artists to have ridiculous
> ability to kill with a single blow (Str 11, skill 10 = 11 dice of damage,
> or, using the official d6's an average of 38.5 damage, and using d10's 60.5
> damage). THAT is broken.

True enough. A system that allows for death after some time period
with no medical care could take care of a lot of these problems. Any
penetrating trauma that exceeds a certain value bleeds for a period
of time til the guy is dead. There could be a condition check every
few minutes to see if the guy crashes.

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:56:10 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: uplifting 

> Black ICE wrote:
> 
> >The question is, do they ever get around to Uplifting politicians?
> 
> now why would we do that??

Comic relief?

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:57:46 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Personal Announcement 

> Andrew Akins <igor@truserve.com> writes:
> >I am pleased as punch to announce the arrival of:
> >
> >Jennifer Anne Akins
> 
> Mind you, we'll now expect your FFS spreadsheet to cover baby toys,
> designed to gearhead standards :-)

With extra emphasis on raw kill power, too.

Can you say, 'fusion-powered rattle'?

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:59:51 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Lasers and Windows etc 

> 	And if you have any Vargr crewmembers, they've probably been
> pressing their noses against the glass. The resulting smudges will
> probably cause the glass to absorb enough juice to shatter on the the
> first shot ... 

I'dve thought they'd wanna stick their heads out the open window...

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:36:52 -0600
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net>
Subject: Re: Lasers and Windows etc

At 09:22 PM 11/16/98 , Dave Golden wrote:
>snip<
>	And if you have any Vargr crewmembers, they've probably been
>pressing their noses against the glass. The resulting smudges will
>probably cause the glass to absorb enough juice to shatter on the the
>first shot ... 

Well only if the laser can pass thru the floating Monkey Chow debris in the
area around the window.
<G>

Sinbad Sam
Sinbad Sam
"Black Curtain" Rod Holder...
AI Virus inferior races(Aslan, Humaniti, Kkree, Droyne) Interfacer
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
sinbad@ignore.hex.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 23:48:09 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Lasers and Windows etc

Bruce Johnson wrote:

> dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com wrote:
>
> >   Would a Laser weapon shoot through a window with minimal loss of
> > damage, I guess it may melt glass or plastic, and have some refration
> > problems.  However assuming the Glass in the Empress class trader ships
> > is made of Crystal Iron would they still be armour factor 40 to laser
> > rifles or would the transparency allow some shots to get through - assuming
> > of course that blast shielding is not in place.
>
> It depends...lasers, at least starship lasers in Traveller are X-Ray
> lasers; I don't think glass is transparent to x-rays...

What about Quartz and Leaded Glass?

> IAC, even with visible lasers, the glass will get hot because it's not
> _perfectly_ transparent; some energy is absorbed, which can have adverse
> consequences.

Perhaps just a laser-sized hole?  Although, the whole window might melt
from the heat, maybe?

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 00:00:58 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net> wrote:

>Being poor could preclude the outworld from being the direct
>buyer of the smuggled goods, but that doesn't mean the buyer
>wouldn't be picking the goods up there, forging papers, and
>sending them on to the mainword to his own private landing zone.

Now there's a thought. Worlds with a well-settled system and
stiff trade regulations have the dilemma of free trade within the
system and having to patrol and regulate the whole thing, or just
guarding the mainworld and creating economic and political
strains in the outsystem.

   

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 00:00:51 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Environmental system

Matt Clonfero wrote:

>ObTraveller: Starships *can't* smell as bad as the inside of a
>submarine, can they?

IMTU, When Cleon breathed new life into the Sylean Federation
Scout Service well before he took the throne, he had to run its
expanded operations on a shoestring for the first few years.  He
started with 4-man Jump-2 scouts to go out a few parsecs and fill
in the blanks on neighboring worlds the Federation already knew
_something_ about.  Missions lasting several months at a time
were the norm. The first class of small scouts with extended life
support was a rework of short-range couriers. The design of the
life support was therefore less than optimal, and the performance
matched.  That first generation of scouts earned its heroic
reputation the hard way.   

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 00:00:55 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

Ian Whitchurch wrote:

>As far as I see it, the Imperium doesnt ban much, except for
>nukes and slaves.

>if the Imperial authorities are at all serious about controlling
>piracy, then goods without paperwork are going to be suspect,
>on the grounds goods stolen by pirates tend not to have paper
>trails (Imperial customs, IMO, are worried about things like
> 'Who did you buy this batch of x off, for how much, and have
>you got a receipt ?'

"No Nukes, no slaves, OK you're clean"  sounds about right for
the Imperium, but once Imperial Customs (Were did THAT office
come from?) and the IN get involved in trying to stop fencing and
smuggling,  "nothing without proper paperwork", they have a MUCH
larger beast to deal with.

If the Imperium doesn't care, the variety of worlds and
governments makes it nearly certain that every world will have
its own customs regulations. For example:

World A is suffering a "Brain Drain"; World B doesn't want its
revolutionaries getting advanced military technology; World C has
a major drug problem; on world D you have to have a pass just to
go to the bathroom; world E is trying to protect its endangered
wumpgums and has an incredible extraction tax rate on its
platinum deposits; and world F is trying to protect its high-tech
industry from cheap imports.

Multiply that by a few thousand goods and a few thousand worlds,
and the Imperium starts needing a substantial bureacracy if it
wants to regulate internal trade.
   

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:06:33 +1300
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: 

[big snip]

>TNE cannot recreate the one-shot stops nor one shot kills ratios of moder
>firearms in trained hands. But allows martial artists to have ridiculous
>ability to kill with a single blow (Str 11, skill 10 = 11 dice of damage,
>or, using the official d6's an average of 38.5 damage, and using d10's 60.5
>damage). THAT is broken.
>
Um, if I read the paragraph on page 35 correctly it states that the unarmed
combat damage is the number of POINTS inflicted, not dice.

Cheers,
 Anson

I want to die in my sleep like my grandfather,
not screaming and yelling like the passengers in his car.

UTUP 0910 B-115A15E-C-C-A

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:06:10 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: your mail

>
>> TNE cannot recreate the one-shot stops nor one shot kills ratios of moder
>> firearms in trained hands. But allows martial artists to have ridiculous
>> ability to kill with a single blow (Str 11, skill 10 = 11 dice of damage,
>> or, using the official d6's an average of 38.5 damage, and using d10's 60.5
>> damage). THAT is broken.
>
Thats oidd, I thought TNE was talking in terms of  Damage points not dice.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1150
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Traveller-digest     Tuesday, November 17 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1151



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1150 
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1150 
Just some thoughts about combat...
Re: uplifting
Re: Personal Announcement
Re: Traveller Relevant SF Titles
Re: Personal Announcement 
Re Combat systems
Re: Personal Announcement
Re: Smuggling
Re: Re Combat systems
Re: First Contact future history
Re: Rh Factors and Hyper-Immune systems...
Re: First Contact future history

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:39:35 -0800
From: George Herbert <gherbert@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1150 

Dave Golden writes:
>	And if you have any Vargr crewmembers, they've probably been
>pressing their noses against the glass. The resulting smudges will
>probably cause the glass to absorb enough juice to shatter on the the
>first shot ... 

Flash *Bang*tinkletinkle

"Damn it, Vrouf, use the *#$@ windex!  That's five sets of 
windows in your quarters this year!"

- -george

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:39:35 -0800
From: George Herbert <gherbert@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1150 

Dave Golden writes:
>	And if you have any Vargr crewmembers, they've probably been
>pressing their noses against the glass. The resulting smudges will
>probably cause the glass to absorb enough juice to shatter on the the
>first shot ... 

Flash *Bang*tinkletinkle

"Damn it, Vrouf, use the *#$@ windex!  That's five sets of 
windows in your quarters this year!"

- -george

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:53:57 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Just some thoughts about combat...

Just some thoughts from the pros I have found & thought you might like to
read...

**************************************************************

Rules of Engagement
- -Look before you leap, because believing in divine intervention is
bullshit.
- -Break the rules, before they break you.
- -Have character, don't be a character.
- -Lead from the front.  (see below)
- -Don't confuse planning with training, or talking with kicking ass.
- -Honor our boundry breakers as much as the boundry makers, they are our
point men.
- -Don't be afraid to make mistakes, because the path to glory is littered
with fuck-ups.
- -Serve a greater cause than your own edo, or you'll be a one-man army.
- -Take risks-and then more risks.
- -Never be satisfied.

Manifesto
- -Don't forget nothing.
- -Have your weapon as clean as a whistle, knife scoured, and be ready to
march at a moments notice.
- -When you're on the march, act as though you were sneaking up on a deer. 
See the enemy first.
- -Tell the truth in what you see and do.  An army is depending on you for
good info.  Never lie to an officer or a Ranger.
- -Don't ever take a chance you don't have to.
- -When on the march do so in a straight line, far enough apart so one shot
can't kill two of you.
- -In swamp or soft ground, spread out so you are harder to track.
- -When we camp, half the party sleeps while the other half stays awake.
- -If we take prisoners, keep em separate so they don't cook up a story.
- -Don't sleep past dawn.  Dawn is the best time to attack.
- -If someone's trailing you, make a circle and come back on your own tracks,
and ambush the folks that aim to ambush you.

Ten Commandments
- -I am the Wrathful God of Combat and Warlord and I will always lead you
from the front, not the rear.
- -I  will treat you all alike - just like shit.
- -Thou shalt do nothing that I will not do first, thus you will be created
in my deadly image.
- -I shall punish thy bodies; for the more you sweat in training, the less
you will bleed in combat.
- -If thou hurteth in thy efforts and thou suffer painful dings, then thou
are probably doing it right.
- -Thou hast not to like it - thou hast just to do it.
- -Keep it simple stupid.  - KISS
- -Thou shall never assume.
- -Thou art paid for your results, not methods.  Thus you will kill the enemy
before he kills you.
- -Always remember my final commandment:
- -THERE ARE NO RULES - THOU SHALL WIN AT ALL COSTS.

Always keep your weapons and clothes where you can find them in the dark.

Weapon Rules: (Muzzle Discipline)
I. Every weapon is always loaded.
II. Never allow you muzzle to sweep anything you aren't 100% willing to
destroy.
III. Never forget rules I or II.

The soldiers job is not to die for his country, but to make the other guy
die for his.

In retrospect, I'd have rather have been a historian.

**************************************************************************************

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 23:10:05 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: uplifting

> From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
> Subject: uplifting
> >Those of us who want Uplifted Bonobos in T5 will just have to do it
> >unofficially :-)
> Ok, so far the Solomani have uplifted dolphins and elephants (ok, no so
far
> on these guys).

Well, from what I can understand, dolphins are as intelligent as humans &
maybe more so, they only lack hands, tools,  & fire...  They have a
language & a culture, from what scientists can figure out & they do not go
around screwing each other over for the all-mighty dollar...  For that, I
would have to say they are, in many ways, smarter than man...

> I can see partially uplifted canines for scouting work (both military and
> exploring).

That is what the Vargr are for...  *weg*

Legate Legion, Militant Jewish Terrorist & Old Gaming Fart
Cult 'O Gabe's Holy Avenger in charge of Military Afairs
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 23:01:49 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Personal Announcement

> From: Andrew Akins <igor@truserve.com>
> Subject: Personal Announcement
> Not to waste bandwidth, but...

You would never do that, would you?

> I am pleased as punch to announce the arrival of:
> Jennifer Anne Akins
> 11110A        Baby     0 terms
> Crying-3 Looking Cute-2 

Strength should be higher, about F...  For some reason babies have a very
powerful grip...

> I figure that since I was canonized Saint Andius Gearheadicus several
> months ago, my new daughter would be at _least_ social level A.

Social Status should be around F, as she is the daughter of a saint...

> I now return you to your normal Traveller stuff...Im going to go and make
> silly faces at my girl...

Congrats...

> Andy Akins
> igor@ames.net

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 23:04:43 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Relevant SF Titles

King David's Spaceship...

Great book about a TL 7 planet trying to get a higher class membership in a
growing empire...  Would almost fit into M:0...

By J.E. Pornelle...

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 23:18:47 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Personal Announcement 

> From: Keven R. Pittsinger <jamstar@glasscity.net>
> Subject: Re: Personal Announcement 
> > >I am pleased as punch to announce the arrival of:
> > >Jennifer Anne Akins
> > Mind you, we'll now expect your FFS spreadsheet to cover baby toys,
> > designed to gearhead standards :-)
> With extra emphasis on raw kill power, too.

Sounds good...

> Can you say, 'fusion-powered rattle'?

"Shake, shake, BOOM"?

> Keven

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:04:14 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re Combat systems

>A single shot from an ACR should not kill someone, but the resulting
>blood loss could.
>Blood loss is not covered in the game mechanics, but should be.
>The NATO 5.56 round was chosen for its light wieght (ability to carry
>more ammo) and its stopping power (the ability to render the target
>incapable to continue combat) NOT for its killing power.  A wounded
>soldier requires, on average, 3 - 5 personnel to remove from the battle
>field and render aid while a dead soldier requires 1 person.  This means
>a wounding the targets causes more personnel to be in non-combat roles.
>
>Charles
[charles also pointed out he'd never hear of anyone dying from a single .22
shot].

A single shot from an M-16 (5.56mm, or .223cal), which is less powerful
than the 7mm ACR's of Traveller, has been known to kill outright... very
occasionally. A hit to the cardiac sinus node, or in through an eye-socket
or a hit to the upper spine.

As for the .22LR, there were several assassinations over the years where a
.22LR in a pistol or carbine WERE used.

One other thing: T4 lacks bleeding rules (*Hell, so does CT, MT, and TNE*)
that will cause a bleed-out situation. If you want to have that level of
detail in the system, great. In MT, it IS (Very marginally) covered by the
conversion from DP to attribute losses and time to degrade if untreated.
(Wounds and Healing section of MT Player's Manual, pages 75&82). If there
are similar in the Mk1Md1 TNE book or in T4, provide a page reference,
please.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:aramis@gci.net> Note: All other E-mail addresses for me expire by
the end of november 1998!
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
UTUP 0309 6-7779577-5-5-2
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:34:46 +1300
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: Re: Personal Announcement

>> > Mind you, we'll now expect your FFS spreadsheet to cover baby
toys,
>> > designed to gearhead standards :-)
>> With extra emphasis on raw kill power, too.
>
>> Can you say, 'fusion-powered rattle'?
>
>"Shake, shake, BOOM"?


Boom shakalakalaka, shake the room...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:39:35
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

>From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: Smuggling
>
>Ian Whitchurch wrote:
>
>"No Nukes, no slaves, OK you're clean"  sounds about right for
>the Imperium, but once Imperial Customs (Were did THAT office
>come from?) and the IN get involved in trying to stop fencing and
>smuggling,  "nothing without proper paperwork", they have a MUCH
>larger beast to deal with.

Take your pick between Ministry of Commerce, Imperial Navy, or the 5
different IISS branches involved in Intelligence.

Basically, you require goods to have paperwork to hit piracy from the 'back
end'. You do targetted compliance on, say, 2% of cargos, plus another 1% at
random.

You check the actual cargo against the manifest, copy the manifest, then
batch it up and send the batched manifests back to the source worlds. They
cross check it against outgoing cargos declared, and a form letter to who
the manifest says you bought it off.

If anything doesnt match, then the ship goes onto the watch list.

>
>If the Imperium doesn't care, the variety of worlds and
>governments makes it nearly certain that every world will have
>its own customs regulations. For example:
>
>World A is suffering a "Brain Drain"; World B doesn't want its
>revolutionaries getting advanced military technology; World C has
>a major drug problem; on world D you have to have a pass just to
>go to the bathroom; world E is trying to protect its endangered
>wumpgums and has an incredible extraction tax rate on its
>platinum deposits; and world F is trying to protect its high-tech
>industry from cheap imports.
>
>Multiply that by a few thousand goods and a few thousand worlds,
>and the Imperium starts needing a substantial bureacracy if it
>wants to regulate internal trade.

The Imperium doesnt want to regulate internal trade. It just wants to know
what is going on. What local worlds want to do is the responsibility of
them, at the gates of the Extrality Fence.

RICO-type laws allowing siezure of ships involved in smuggling and piracy
could even make the whole operation self-funding.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:39:37 +1300
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: Re: Re Combat systems

>As for the .22LR, there were several assassinations over the years
where a
>.22LR in a pistol or carbine WERE used.


I was about to say the same thing. I know of at least one assasin
whose standard
MO was double-tap with a .22 target pistol, usually to the side of
the head, though
once he excelled himself and got both bullets through the same
eye-socket
from some 25-30m.

One reason the .22 target pistol was popular was because you always
had
a legitimate excuse to carry one if you were an Olympic "athlete",
and it
was easier to carry and conceal  than a similar target rifle.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:06:32 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: First Contact future history

- ----------
> From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: First Contact future history
> Date: Tuesday, 17 November 1998 8:10
> 
> Alan Bradley wirtes:
> 
> >1.  Any detailed future history is likely to suffer from the
Twilight:2000
> >problem, where changes in the real world will make it impossible/silly. 
> 
> That is only a problem if you insist that the Traveller Universe must be
a
> reflection of the Real World. I don't have any problem with the
Twilight:2000
> timeline today that I didn't have 8 years ago. I didn't believe in a new
> world war breaking out in 1999 then and I don't believe in it today. But
> so what? I could still enjoy the Twilight:2000 universe as a "What If"
> universe. In fact, I used it almost word for word in the timeline for my
> on-going Time Patrol campaign (which is based on the 27th Century). The
only
> concession I have made to the passing of the years in the real world is a
> single entry in my timeline:
> 
> 	1992	The game universe and the real world begins to part
> 		company in earnest.
> 
> IMO it would be a good idea to do something similar for the Traveller
> Universe. Select a date like, say, 1977, and say that anything that happened
> on Earth after that, from historical events to technological developements,
> and anything that will happen in the future, will only be accepted as part
> of the TU if it dosen't mess it up. That way it dosen't matter if someone
> invents a true AI tomorrow. It dosen't meant that we will have to redefine
> AI to be TL 9 or to let Earth have a computer TL of 16 in 2000 AD. It just
> didn't happen that way in that string of parallel universes that are the
> Traveller universes.
> 
> >Examples:  Does Australia become a republic?  Does the UK?  Is there a
> >united Ireland?  Does Scotland secede?  Quebec?  The Basque country?  Does
> >Puerto Rico become a state of the US?  What happens in Israel/Palestine?
> >Does the European Union work?  Doesn't any country in Europe ever elect an
> >anti-EU government?  What happens to Cuba? Mexico? etc etc....
> 
> Why is that a problem for you? It's a game, not a political manifesto. Just
> because a game writer decides that in his game universe something happened
> one particular way dosen't mean he believe it is what is most likely to
> happen, or most desirable. All it means is that he thinks it will make for
> a nice game universe. 
> 
> 
>       Hans Rancke
> University of Copenhagen
>      rancke@diku.dk
> ------------
>         "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
>          events based on the individual situation."
>                                 _76 Patrons_, p. 8
> 
>  

Look, I made a mistake.  I tried to argue for what I wanted without stating
it.

What I want is: a patch of 21st century Earth, for a few decades (including
the key period of First Contact), that won't be overwritten by canon.

I'm Australian, so I want Australia, Indonesia, Papua New Guinea and the
Solomon Islands (and their various splinters).

I want to be able to "virtually implement" MY "political manifesto" (or
whatever else I want to implement), within MY campaign, WITHOUT breaking
with canon.

Other people, in their own campaigns, can do the same.

In other words, I don't want to be overwritten by canon.

As for "nice game universes", check out the following:

BTW I am picking on Andrew Moffatt-Vallance here.  Actually I think that
his Prometheus Rising material is very impressive, particularly for the
sheer amount of work involved!  This is my main substantial gripe with
Andrew's material - I have some minor ones, but who cares.

>                         The Barnard Incident
> 
< Stuff deleted >

> As both the Vilani and the Terrans reinforced their military presence around 
> Barnard, tensions grew, tempers shortened and "incidents" increased in 
> frequency. In 2110 AD a Sharurshid merchant convoy strayed into Terran 
> airspace; in itself nothing too serious, this sort of incident had occurred 
> countless times before. However this time was slightly different. Four weeks 
> previously an armed Vilani merchant had fired warning shots at a Terran 
> patrolship in a disputed zone and the previous patrolships drawn from the

> European Union had just been rotated out in for those of the Western League 
> (the most hawkish of Earth's power blocs at that time). Thus when the Vilani 
> merchant failed to respond correctly to the UNSCA traffic control the Western 
> League patrolship Canberra fired several warning shots in an attempt to force 
> the convoy to land in Terran controlled territory. The convoy returned fire and 
> attempted to flee as the Canberra gave pursuit. At this point a Sharurshid 
> Gadni Type 56m escort arrived on the scene and opened fire on the Canberra. 
> A brief running battle ensued which resulted in the destruction of the escort. 
> During the final stages of this skirmish, the Vilani ground defences had 
> engaged and damaged the Canberra. As a result of this the local Western 
> League commander determined to neutralise the Vilani outpost on Barnard with 
> a rapid ground assault. This failed, both sides reinforced their positions and the 
> First Interstellar War had begun.

OK, what's the problem with this?

Where is the Canberra from? Australia, perhaps?
Does that mean that Australia is part of the Western League?
Who are the Western League, anyway?  The American Bloc, perhaps?

If the above "logic" is correct, what does this say about Australia?

Basically, it says that Australia is a cliche.  It's pseudo-America.  In
the hands of any mediocre to poor writer, it says that Australians are just
like Americans, except that they drink tea, play cricket, and have the
British monarch as their head of state.  Oh, and that Australia has
re-instituted the "White Australia" policy, fears the Yellow Peril, and
that the uniform of the Royal Australian Space Force is a safari suit.

In other words, it's DULL.

Here's an option that IMHO makes for a better "nice game universe":

Australia, Indonesia, PNG and the Solomons (and their splinters) form a
loose confederation (say, the "Asia-Pacific Confederation").  Despite
internal frictions and external subversion, it has managed to maintain a
robust, if occasionally turbulent democracy, and has succeeded, to some
degree at least, in developing its less developed member states.... blah
blah blah.

Not all referees would want to use this option.  Some would prefer to use
the "little buddy of the USA" model.  Fine.  It should be their choice, but
this kind of option wouldn't necessarily appear in detailed canonical
material.

It's this kind of option that I would like to see kept open.  Of course,
these options should still exist within a broad framework, but they
shouldn't be foreclosed by some "boy wonder" future historian...

Cheers, 
Alan Bradley.
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 01:01:40 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Rh Factors and Hyper-Immune systems...

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote

> Actually, I think immune system response is a *bad* way to deal with
> heavy metals. If it was up to me I'd design special enzymes that 
> locked up the unwanted metals *before* they could interfere with 
> "normal" enzymatic activity. 

The nature of the Darmine biological defenses has not been defined as an
immune system response, however it _includes_ a more active immune
system.

> You'd also need to have the enzyme/metal complexes be "tagged" somehow
> for special treatment by the body so as to expedite their removal.
> Perhaps once the metal atoms are attached, they re-fold into a
> configuration such that they quickly get passed to the intestines (you
> *don't* want to burden the kidneys with these!). 

Yes this is more or less how I envisioned it working.  Note that since
their bodies are seizing and eliminating 95% to  99.99% of all the
metals passing through them on any planet _without_ an ecosystem tainted
by heavy metals they will have to make a specific point of adding what
would be poisonous levels of heavy metals to their foods or they will
die of a lack of trace vitamins.  If Darmine start to experience heavy
metal deficiencies their hair starts to grow in blonde rather than green
or blue as their bodies no longer are eliminating significant ammounts
of metals.

> Possibly even an extra organ similar to the gall bladder or a special
> section of the liver hooked directly to the bile ducts.

I'm not sure that a new organ fits the conception, the notion of a
special section of the liver sounds better.

> I'd say that
> it'd be a good idea if the complexes were somehow incorporated into
> some sort of long chain polymer structure, so as to make them *hard*
> for *anything* to metabolize. This *would* require extra energy use by
> the body, but would be good for the *species* in the long run. 

The Darmine have been established as having a fast metabolism & for it
being quite rare for them to be overweight.  The notion that their
biological processes need a little more energy than that on most humans
would tend to explain this.

> Another possibility would be modifying the tissues that secrete hair
> and nails to dump the polymer locked metals into.

Yes this is part of the Darmine modifications.  When I generated my
first Darmine PC I told the Ref that he had naturally green hair.  When
the Ref wanted to know why I (thinking fast) told him that one of the
ways the extra heavy metals, especially copper, in their atmosphere were
eliminated from the body was via the hair and nails.

> Add that to a
> "tradition" of saving hair and nail clippings to "bury" in secure
> locations where they'll be isolated from the ecosystem, and you'll be
> steadily removing the metals from the ecosystem. 

That is a good idea.

> Heck, the old "hair pits" might be an industrially useful source of
> metals once they develop tech of their own.

If the planet was not swarming with metals it would not have a density
of (IIRC) 1.7 times earth, I don't think they'll need a few grams from
hair.  It may have been important when they were at TL 0 though. The
Darmine discovered fission power at Tl 4 or 5 because Ishag still has
some natural fission piles going (similar to the one in East Africa a
billion years or so ago).  

> ps. You could add a touch of "characterization" by claiming that their
> hair and nails have a somewhat metallic sheen, and are somewhat 
> tougher than normal. :-)

The slight metallic sheen to the hair & nails is part of the racial
description but I don't think that there is enough metal in them for
them to be significantly tougher than normal.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:54:10 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: First Contact future history

From:           	"Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Date sent:      	Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:06:32 +1000

>Look, I made a mistake.  I tried to argue for what I wanted without stating
>it.

>What I want is: a patch of 21st century Earth, for a few decades (including
>the key period of First Contact), that won't be overwritten by canon.

[snip]

>As for "nice game universes", check out the following:

>BTW I am picking on Andrew Moffatt-Vallance here.  Actually I think that
>his Prometheus Rising material is very impressive, particularly for the
>sheer amount of work involved!  This is my main substantial gripe with
>Andrew's material - I have some minor ones, but who cares.

>>                         The Barnard Incident

[snip]

>OK, what's the problem with this?

>Where is the Canberra from? Australia, perhaps?
>Does that mean that Australia is part of the Western League?
>Who are the Western League, anyway?  The American Bloc, perhaps?

Actually the Western League (like all the other power blocs in my piece) are 
very deliberately not defined, exactly to avoid straightjacketing any game. In 
other words the WL is whatever you want it to be. However, From elsewhere in 
my PR work (this is from a ship description, not the mainbody text):

[snip ship stats, they're on my website if aybody wants them]

"The Darwin class frigates achieved a permanent place in both Terran and 
Vilani history over Barnard's Star in 2110AD when the Canberra was involved in 
the incident which sparked the 1st Interstellar War. Designed for the Western 
League shortly before the outbreak of the War, the Darwin was commissioned 
in 2107AD, to be followed by the Canterbury and Canberra in 2108AD and the 
Melbourne and Port Morsby in 2109AD. The class incorporated the latest drive, 
missile and computer technologies; and was built around a 40m 1600Mj spinal 
particle accelerator along with a sextuple Kea missile launcher and a 16Mj 
point defence laser. The class incorporated most of the features that were to 
come to distinguish Terran warships throughout the Interstellar Wars. They 
were designed to withstand far greater stresses than they would ever 
reasonably expect to encounter (the Darwin's were rated for 30g's of stress); 
featured a closed loop biologically based life support system and carried 
sufficent supplies for lengthy patrols without resupply; and they were built 
around a single spinal mount. During the First War no less than seven more 
Darwin's were commissioned by the Western League and another four were 
built for the Prometheus Colonial Command. The Darwins were extensively 
employed throughout the War and suffered accordingly, with seven being lost. 
With the cessation of hostilities in 2118AD the Darwins were now obsolete and 
were quickly reduced to reserve status and gradually scrapped. However three 
survived to see action in the 2nd Interstellar War (albeit in 2nd line duties); and 
another one was lost in this conflict."

"With the end of the 2nd War the remaining two ships (the Canberra and the 
Otago) were finally decommissioned and scheduled to be scrapped. However a 
massive public campaign resulted in the preservation of the Canberra as a 
historic monument on Barnard. When Barnard was occupied by the Vilani in 
2148AD the Canberra was removed to the Vilani provincial capital at Dingir 
where she was to remain until after the 8th Interstellar War. When the Terran 
Confederation occupied Dingir in 2267AD plans were made to return the 
Canberra to Barnard. Since the resources could not be spared during the War, 
her relocation had to wait until 2272AD, when she was finally returned and 
formally recommissioned into the Confederation Navy."

[snip]

>Here's an option that IMHO makes for a better "nice game universe":

>Australia, Indonesia, PNG and the Solomons (and their splinters) form a
>loose confederation (say, the "Asia-Pacific Confederation").  Despite
>internal frictions and external subversion, it has managed to maintain a
>robust, if occasionally turbulent democracy, and has succeeded, to some
>degree at least, in developing its less developed member states.... blah
>blah blah.

There is nothing preventing the WL from being exactly that. IMTU the WL is 
Australia, NZ, PNG, portions of Indonesia and some pacific islands; YMMV.

ASIDE: the Western League is from a 1st World War era naval campaign I ran 
(the Circle Sea campaign). It was a powerful alliance of two players and several 
neutrals. Its highlights were inventing the combination "flash 
enhancer/machinegun loudener" and and teaching it MG gunners to lean back 
and cackle whist firing :*>.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1151
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, November 17 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1152



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Ciggie Porn?
Re: Just some thoughts about combat...
Re: Personal Announcement
Scout Ships
Re: Personal Announcement
re: Smuggling
Re: Lasers and Windows etc
Re: Re TNE, T4
Re: Lasers and Windows etc
Re: Environmental system
re: Lasers & Windows
Re: Lasers & Windows
Re: your mail
Re: Personal Announcement
Re: First Contact future history
re: Lasers & Windows
Re: Smuggling
Re: Re Combat systems
Re: First Contact future history
Cricket fusion Pistol for GT
Re: First Contact future history
Beyond the Extents UTUP
Re: TNE combat
Re: uplifting
Re: uplifting
Re: Smuggling

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 03:19:39 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Ciggie Porn?

At 10:50 PM 11/16/98 EST, you wrote:
>Douglas E. Berry says
>>(For a look at what you can get away with, take a look at the illo of the
>>messy starship interior in Behind the Claw.. take a *real* close look at
>>the pack of smokes on the table...)
>
>What, its a pack of Camels? (You do know what they say about Camels?)

Watch out, they spit?

Don't try to fool an old Deadhead/hemp activist/medical marijuana
activist...
- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+-------------------------------------+
| "Some days, you just can't get rid  |
|  of a bomb!"                        |
|     -Adam West, the REAL Batman     |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 03:23:07 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Just some thoughts about combat...

At 10:53 PM 11/16/98 -0700, you wrote:

>Manifesto

These are the standing Orders, Rodgers Rangers.  First issued in 1764 by
Col. Rodgers for his irregular force during the French and Indian War.
Still used today.

>Ten Commandments

Issued by Richard Marchinko, founder of SEAL Team 6 and passable novelist.

>The soldiers job is not to die for his country, but to make the other guy
>die for his.

This was first said by Gen. George Patton.

- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+-------------------------------------+
| "I'm just like anybody else, I want |
|  to be a non-conformist too."       |
|                      -Lenny Bruce   |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 03:25:13 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Personal Announcement

At 09:49 PM 11/16/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Andrew Akins <igor@truserve.com> writes:
>>I am pleased as punch to announce the arrival of:
>>
>>Jennifer Anne Akins
>
>Mind you, we'll now expect your FFS spreadsheet to cover baby toys,
>designed to gearhead standards :-)

At least he didn't name her Ditzie....
- --

+--------------------------------------+
|Douglas E. Berry    dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/     |
+--------------------------------------+
| "In the long run luck is given       |
|  only to the efficient."             |
|     -Helmuth von Moltke, German Army |
+--------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:57:36
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Scout Ships

This is a bit late for the discussion, but I just found the most excellent
Svennson Small Craft home page (
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/5776/ssclic.html ), featuring
designs by Greg Svennson.

Using FFS2 and Andy Atkin's excellent spreadsheet, he has designed a series
of TL11-15 scout ships, with various capabilities (including some jump-4
ships that could do some serious damage to the career prospects of certain
Certifying Officers in the IISS' Communications Office).

If you need insane acceleration and/or big honking spinal mounts, buy
Famile Spofulam. But if you need dependability, maintainability and mission
cost-effectivness, go with Svennson Small Craft.

Ian Whitchurch

PS Andy, congratulations on the successful new arrival. Did I tell you the
story of Josie drawing on bits of paper with a calculator and my copy of FFS ?

PPS Is that Winifreda Spofulam in combat armour with FS' Heavy Assault
Rifle on p114 of Gurps:Traveller ?

'Famile Spofulam ... our designs dont mount 67 megajoule lasers'

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 06:26:26 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Personal Announcement

Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:
> 
> > Andrew Akins <igor@truserve.com> writes:
> > >I am pleased as punch to announce the arrival of:
> > >
> > >Jennifer Anne Akins
> >
> > Mind you, we'll now expect your FFS spreadsheet to cover baby toys,
> > designed to gearhead standards :-)
> 
> With extra emphasis on raw kill power, too.
> 
> Can you say, 'fusion-powered rattle'?
> 
Her last name is "Akins", not "Spofulam."

> Keven
> 
> tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                                                      Science-Fiction Adventure
>                                                      In Reavers' Deep

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 09:05:27 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Smuggling

Ian Whitchurch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The Imperium doesnt want to regulate internal trade. It just wants to know
what is going on. What local worlds want to do is the responsibility of
them, at the gates of the Extrality Fence.

RICO-type laws allowing siezure of ships involved in smuggling and piracy
could even make the whole operation self-funding.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Sounds like every free trader captain's nightmare. Not only do you get
a soulless bureacrat looking over your ship's papers every stop, now
you offer this soulless bureacrat a MCr40 prize if he finds (or creates)
a big enough irregularity in your paperwork.

That much cash is a corruption risk, as we've been finding out in
America - lots of police departments have been engaging in some very
suspect behaviour, because there is profit for the police department
(or even for the individual officers) in doing so.

Imagine you're a tourist, and you've heard a rumour that Willaby, New
York has police officers that will covet your nice new sports car, and
will stop you and plant evidence of drug use in your car so they can take
it - and keep it even if you are found innocent. Even if the rumours are
a little hard to believe, would you drive through Willaby or take a
different route? Now multiply the value of your vehicle by a factor of
a thousand. A planet seizing ships on basis of such investigations had
better keep the ships it seizes and use them as traders, because it
might not see any others for a very long time. This would be so even
if it were an Imperial official actually doing the seizing - traders would
stay away from that official's area of authority, whether it were a planet,
subsector, or sector.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 07:17:27 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Lasers and Windows etc

steve daniels wrote:
> 
> Bruce Johnson wrote:

> > It depends...lasers, at least starship lasers in Traveller are X-Ray
> > lasers; I don't think glass is transparent to x-rays...
> 
> What about Quartz and Leaded Glass?

Like I said, I don't know. My CRC says that "Quartz is very transparent
to thultra-violet and visible spectrum, but opaque for the InfraRed
beyond 7.0 microns", it says nothing about x-rays.

> > IAC, even with visible lasers, the glass will get hot because it's not
> > _perfectly_ transparent; some energy is absorbed, which can have adverse
> > consequences.
> 
> Perhaps just a laser-sized hole?  Although, the whole window might melt
> from the heat, maybe?

No, more than likely there will be significant spalling of the exterior
surface, and worse case, the whole thing shatters from the thermal
expansion of _part_ of the window.

Say you have a window that's 99.99% transparent to the wavelengths used
in starship lasers. What happens?

A) the window reflects or absorbs 0.01% of that megajoule laser...still
a hell of a lot of energy, hope most of it is reflected...

B) 99.99% of that laser's energy goes right on through and hits the wall
on the other side of the corridor. Boom! Congrats, you have an armor 0
hull right at that point...

Sadly, however cool they look, windows don't really belong on starships,
at least not without armored ports covering them most of the time...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 07:28:05 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Re TNE, T4

"David J. Golden" wrote:
> 
>         I'm fairly sure a .22 which happens to pass through the brain stem
> will do quite a nice job, even if the passee happens to be sitting in
> the middle of a top-flight trauma center. I'd also expect any damage
> to the upper portions of the spinal cord to have similar effects;
> even an icepick, much less a .22 ...
> 

Oh, yes, .22's are favored weapons of hit men. Some of the <ahem> family
members back in New York really liked them. A silenced .22 is _real_
quiet, small, and works very well from short distances. (like three
inches from the back of the head) They really _do_ sound as quiet as
they do in the movies, particularly if a subsonic round is used. Even
regular rounds are quiet.

They're also cheap, and since there are uncounted gazillions of them out
there, hard to trace. A .22 _also_ tends to get so mangled going through
a skull that traceable forensic evidence, already hard to get on a slug
so small, is rendered impossible.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 09:36:24 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Lasers and Windows etc

>
> Sadly, however cool they look, windows don't really belong on starships,
> at least not without armored ports covering them most of the time...

The place for windows is for landing craft that may power down the sensors from
time to time.  You want to be safe from the environment but not blind to it,
like in a crash landing situation.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 09:44:48 -0500
From: "Paul Schirf" <pc@PerkWorks.com>
Subject: Re: Environmental system

>ObTraveller: Starships *can't* smell as bad as the inside of a
>submarine, can they?

Exotic (and not so exotic) atmospheres plus the anti-toxins 
used on a vacc suit in the air lock may result quite interesting
smells in the starship.

"Eeeeyuuu! Hey Bob, you smell like I wet Vargr with gas!"

"Uh... nah, I just got back from the 2nd moon of Mun.
They say you can breath the air but there's enough
sulfur and other junk floating in it that it reminded me
of Kemany Tuchan soup."

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 09:59:26 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Lasers & Windows

Joe Petit wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
The place for windows is for landing craft that may power down the sensors from
time to time.  You want to be safe from the environment but not blind to it,
like in a crash landing situation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
Many starships in Traveller - especially ones PC's are likely to fly - act
as their own landing craft. Scouts, Free/Far Traders, etc.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 10:25:59 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Lasers & Windows

Walter Smith wrote:

> Joe Petit wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> The place for windows is for landing craft that may power down the sensors from
> time to time.  You want to be safe from the environment but not blind to it,
> like in a crash landing situation.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> Many starships in Traveller - especially ones PC's are likely to fly - act
> as their own landing craft. Scouts, Free/Far Traders, etc.

That was my point.  The well known "windowed" ships tend to land and on occassion
power down their engines for some plot device.  You then need a method to see
without sensors.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:28:19 +0800
From: "Benjamin Barton" <aramis3d@iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: your mail

From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Date: Tuesday, 17 November 1998 1:30
>>> TNE cannot recreate the one-shot stops nor one shot kills ratios of
moder
>>> firearms in trained hands. But allows martial artists to have ridiculous
>>> ability to kill with a single blow (Str 11, skill 10 = 11 dice of
damage,
>>> or, using the official d6's an average of 38.5 damage, and using d10's
60.5
>>> damage). THAT is broken.
>>
>Thats oidd, I thought TNE was talking in terms of  Damage points not dice.

I would have to agree with the above statement, Damage points not dice.

Page 35 States under the section Unarmed Combat Damage:Unarmed Martial Arts
skill(not asset) by strength and diving by 10, rounding fractions down.ed
Reese has a strength of 7(Avg) and Unarmed Martial arts skill of 8.
7x8=56/10=5.6 rounded down to 5 hit points per unarmed melee attack.

And there is rules for one shot one kill (for NPC's) p286 (quick kill).  You
are required to roll under the damage inflicted in one attack.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 10:23:43 -0500
From: Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil>
Subject: Re: Personal Announcement

Congratulation!  Ain't it great?!

Greg

Andrew Akins wrote:
> 
> Not to waste bandwidth, but...
> 
> I am pleased as punch to announce the arrival of:
> 
> Jennifer Anne Akins
> 11110A        Baby     0 terms
> Crying-3 Looking Cute-2
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 07:40:55 -0800
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
Subject: Re: First Contact future history

On Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:06:32 +1000, "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
wrote:

(snip)

>Not all referees would want to use this option.  Some would prefer to use
>the "little buddy of the USA" model.  Fine.  It should be their choice, but
>this kind of option wouldn't necessarily appear in detailed canonical
>material.

Aw, how cute.  Look, everybody, the Ozzies and Kiwis are gettin' uppity
again...

*grins and ducks*

- --------------
Kelly St.Clair
kellys@efn.org

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 10:51:54 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Lasers & Windows

Joe Petit wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
That was my point.  The well known "windowed" ships tend to land and on occassion power down their engines for some plot device.  You then need
a method to see without sensors.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Hmmm, here's an idea.

Have windows, covered by blast shields as a matter of course. Interior
blast shield has a viewscreen/holofield on it, default view is exterior as
seen through window. When a power down situation happens - sitting
in port, lying doggo, whatever - you open the shields. In an emergency
situation, such as attempting a crash landing with failed instruments,
you would have the option of opening the shields so you could see - 
perhaps with an independently powered actuator, or even a hand crank.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 09:19:57 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

Walter Smith wrote:
> 

> Imagine you're a tourist, and you've heard a rumour that Willaby, New
> York has police officers that will covet your nice new sports car, and
> will stop you and plant evidence of drug use in your car so they can take
> it - and keep it even if you are found innocent. Even if the rumours are
> a little hard to believe, would you drive through Willaby or take a
> different route? Now multiply the value of your vehicle by a factor of
> a thousand. A planet seizing ships on basis of such investigations had
> better keep the ships it seizes and use them as traders, because it
> might not see any others for a very long time.

Well, you have to remember, Free Traders account for only a _tiny_
fraction of the traffic in the Imperium. The vast bulk of trade is
carried out by the Megacorps, and they've got powerful friends in the
Imperium, and armies of lawyers. A world that hassles Free Traders in
that fashion will most likely tread lightly around, for instance, a
Tukera ship...if not, it would as likely be the Imperial Navy that
expressed displeasure as much as a Tukera rep...this is 'interfering
with interstellar trade', you know, one of those things the Imperium
thinks are _it's_ perogatives ;-)

All it means is that player characters would likely not do any trading
there.

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 00:40:59 +0800
From: "Benjamin Barton" <aramis3d@iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: Re Combat systems

- -----Original Message-----
From: William F. Hostman <aramis@gci.net>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Tuesday, 17 November 1998 3:24
Subject: Re Combat systems


Page 288 of TNE Rulebook under Critical wounds
>One other thing: T4 lacks bleeding rules (*Hell, so does CT, MT, and TNE*)
>that will cause a bleed-out situation. If you want to have that level of
>detail in the system, great. In MT, it IS (Very marginally) covered by the
>conversion from DP to attribute losses and time to degrade if untreated.
>(Wounds and Healing section of MT Player's Manual, pages 75&82). If there
>are similar in the Mk1Md1 TNE book or in T4, provide a page reference,
>please.
>
>William F. Hostman
><Mailto:aramis@gci.net> Note: All other E-mail addresses for me expire by
>the end of november 1998!
>ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
>IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
>as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
>UTUP 0309 6-7779577-5-5-2
>ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:12:01 -0500
From: "Eric Freitas" <ericfreitas@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: First Contact future history

Yeah, 
    I like that idea.  Let's go one step further though..

        Maybe I should start a universe that splits with
present reality about 200 years ago, starting with the
Loyalists from the American Revolution fleeing to 
South Africa instead of Canada.   

    Anyone wanna play with a snake?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:25:52 -0500 (EST)
From: William Prankard <cmdrx@magicnet.net>
Subject: Cricket fusion Pistol for GT

FPG-13 'Cricket' Fusion Pistol
250kj Plasma Blaster, TL-13

Type=Expl.   Dammage=6d x4    SS=9   Acc=9
1/2D=300   Max=600   Wt=0.7lbs   
RoF=1   Shots=10
STR=14    Recoil= -6    Cost=16,516

FPG-13: TL13 plasma blaster (using neutral particle beam design), 250 kJ
output, cyclic rate 1, internal 5Mw TL-13 rechargeable power cell.

The latest development in Fusion weaponry, the Fusion Personal Gun(FPG)
delivers high energy fusion power in a small package.  The unit is small
enough to be concealed in a black trenchcoat without difficulty.

The FPG-13's major drawback is its monstrous level of recoil, as is so
with all high energy weapons.  It is suggested that agents use this weapon
as a last resort.  Untrained personnel are banned from its use as it could
harm themselves or innocent civilians.

Gravatic recoil compensators are available for the FPG-13, but adds an
extra 10lbs, compromising the concealability of the unit.

(Note: the unit could be built with TL-12 components, the only difference
is the smaller power cell at TL-13)


\\  // Commander X
 \\//  CEO X-TEK Industries of Deneb, LIC
T E K  Military & Civilan Starship Contractor
 //\\  High Energy Weapons Research
//  \\ http://www.magicnet.net/~cmdrx/xtek/xtek.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:25:32 -0500
From: Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil>
Subject: Re: First Contact future history

Eric Freitas wrote:
> 
> Yeah,
>     I like that idea.  Let's go one step further though..
> 
>         Maybe I should start a universe that splits with
> present reality about 200 years ago, starting with the
> Loyalists from the American Revolution fleeing to
> South Africa instead of Canada.
> 
>     Anyone wanna play with a snake?


I just finished reading Turtledoves "Guns of the South" which is about
the Confederate States of America winning the "Second War of
Independence" with the help of AK-47s brought back by South Afrikaners
from 2014.  They had stolen a time machine (NFI) that could only travel
150 years back.  They decided to help the south win to have that support
for their policies down in South Africa.  Interesting story of 2
countries in North America.  That should cause plenty of divergence from
present reality plain enough.....

Now what could we do about the time travel?  Ancients' artifact that was
found then destroyed by these folks?  

Greg [handwaving furiously]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 19:38:16 +0000
From: "Carlos Alos-Ferrer" <Carlos.Alos-Ferrer@univie.ac.at>
Subject: Beyond the Extents UTUP

Beyond the Extents (MT with T4 taint) 643CA2
Vargr-1 Geonee-2 

Beyond the Extents is a TU set beyond the Vargr Extents, that is, 
beyond the edge of charted space, at some point in time between 1120 
and 1200. The Federation of the Races is integrated by Vargr 
Suedzuk and Urzaeng, a minor human race (the Retani) and the 
descendants of an expedition originating in the late Rule of Man 
(Geonee and terrans), plus some Vilani.

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/8772/bte.html
- -----------------------------------------------
Carlos Alos-Ferrer
Department of Economics, University of Vienna.
Hohenstaufengasse, 9. 1010 Vienna (Austria)
Tlf: (+43-1) 4277 37438  Fax: (+43-1) 4277 9374
- -----------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 10:54:45 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: TNE combat

> I'm well aware that 1-shot kills with .22 and .22LR are low. But they are
> possible (7th left intercostal space, either eye socket) on a good hit IN
> THE REAL WORLD, but not in TNE nor T4.

The quick-kill rule certainly replicates this (I would interpret it as 
giving 1d-1 weapons the same chances as 1d), so I don't see what you're
complaining about. Possibly the chance of quick-kills should be doubled for
head hits vs. chest...

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:41:11 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: uplifting

"Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com> writes:

>Well, from what I can understand, dolphins are as intelligent as humans &
>maybe more so, they only lack hands, tools,  & fire...  They have a
>language & a culture, from what scientists can figure out & they do not go
>around screwing each other over for the all-mighty dollar...

The way I hear understand it, they do it for free.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
                "I am a jelly doughnut."
                        J.F. Kennedy

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:42:58 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: uplifting

Mon, 16 Nov 1998 18:43:35 EST, Sethkimmel@aol.com

>In a message dated 11/16/98 3:15:54 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>eclipse@ultranet.com writes:
>
><< I can see partially uplifted canines for scouting work (both military and
> exploring). >>
>
>aren't they called Vargr? Seriously; I'd love to see the sparks fly when our
>intrepid PC's walk into the bar with the uplifted dog, and the Vargr get a
>sight (or should I say smell) of them. The flying fur (and lead) should be
>VERY entertaining...

Why should a Vargr react any differently to an unlifted dog than
a human to an uplifted chimp?

(Factoid, the closest genetic reliative to chimps is humans.
They are more closely related to us than to other primates).

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:04:37 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

[This touches on piracy, which is an old debate I am not interested
in, but the main thrust is what I see as a contributing issue to
piracy and other issues, how regulated one sees the Imperium
as being.  For me, the Imperium has always been a laisse-faire
(in the philosophical sense, no the strick economic sense) kind
of place.  However, others seem to feel that the Imperium has
the same level of record keeping and regulation we see in modern
western society.  For me this is unlikely given both the
communications problem and the philosophy that the Imperium
is presented as having.]

>Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:39:35
>From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>

>Basically, you require goods to have paperwork to hit piracy from the 'back
>end'.

Maybe, except you might not bother if you don't think it is going
to have much of an impact (and this gets into the same debate
over wether transponders and other systems of identification
will be effective in stopping piracy).  However, more to the
point....

>You check the actual cargo against the manifest, copy the manifest, then
>batch it up and send the batched manifests back to the source worlds. They
>cross check it against outgoing cargos declared, and a form letter to who
>the manifest says you bought it off.

I can't speak for other but you are invisioning an universe
where every cargo generates a form from every world that gets
shipped back to the source and checked.  This alone will be
non-trivial in a universe where every message has to be
physically carried and of limited usefulness when replies
arrive weeks or months later.  One also has to then ask why
the Imperium isn't keeping similar record at the same level
(convictions, births, who travels where, etc.) and leaves you
with a picture of the Imperium that is much more centrally
directed and involved in details than I personally have ever
seen it as being.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1152
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Traveller-digest    Wednesday, November 18 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1153



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Just some thoughts about combat...
Re: uplifting
[Fwd: Real men answer . . .?]
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1152
Re: [Fwd: Real men answer . . .?]
Windows on Starships
Re: [Fwd: Real men answer . . .?]
Re: Windows on Starships
Re: uplifting
.22 cal. 
Re: Smuggling
Re: [Fwd: Real men answer . . .?]
Shiiva Deckplans
Re: Smuggling
Re: Personal Announcement
Re: Smuggling
Ciggie Porn?
Re: uplifting
Re: .22 cal.
Re: uplifting
Re: Windows on Starships 
Re: Just some thoughts about combat...
Re: Just some thoughts about combat...
Re: Just some thoughts about combat...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 15:20:13 -0600
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: Re: Just some thoughts about combat...

dberry@hooked.net posted:
> 
> >The soldiers job is not to die for his country, but to make 
> the other guy
> >die for his.
> 
> This was first said by Gen. George Patton.

The statement gives the gist of what he said but not the exact
wording. Patton's words was more..."colorful".

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:43:21 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: uplifting

In a message dated 11/17/98 12:44:27 PM Pacific Standard Time,
summers@alum.mit.edu writes:

<< Why should a Vargr react any differently to an unlifted dog than
 a human to an uplifted chimp?
  >>

I based that on canon (oh no!) that suggested that they are very racially
sensitive. I though human uplifted dogs might be seen as an insult.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:46:57 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: [Fwd: Real men answer . . .?]

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I figured all the gearheads on TML would get a kick out of this....



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Multiple choice.  You must answer truthfully:
 
1. Alien beings from a highly advanced society visit the earth.  You
are the first human they have encountered and as a token of
inter-galactic friendship they present you with a small but
incredibly sophisticated device that is capable of curing all
diseases, provide an infinite supply of clean energy, wipe out
hunger, and permanently eliminate oppression and violence. What would
you do with it?

A. Present it to the Prime Minister
B. Present it to the Secretary General of the United Nations.
C. Take it apart.


- --------------41CE03FC36223324A5C52AC9--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 15:16:58 -0800
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1152

- ------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 10:25:59 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Lasers & Windows

Walter Smith wrote:

> Joe Petit wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> The place for windows is for landing craft that may power down the
sensors from
> time to time.  You want to be safe from the environment but not blind to
it,
> like in a crash landing situation.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> Many starships in Traveller - especially ones PC's are likely to fly -
act
> as their own landing craft. Scouts, Free/Far Traders, etc.

That was my point.  The well known "windowed" ships tend to land and on
occassion
power down their engines for some plot device.  You then need a method to
see
without sensors.

- ------------------------------
     Ever notice how some people are forever attempting to reinvent the
wheel every time they do something?  Starship 'windows', a misnomer, are
made of the same material as a starship, this means if your ship has armour
value 40, so does the 'window'.  Now you're worried about laser fire going
through the window because it allows visible light to penetrate.  IIRC the
visible portion of light is not what does the damage, or UV lasers would
not work.  Just say your window has two-way mirror applied to it.  You can
see out but nothing can see in.  Regardless if the laser that hits the
'window' is unable to penetrate the hull armour of the ship, you might get
a headache from the light, but nothing else happens.  On the other hand if
the laser can penetrate armour 40 you're screwed.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:29:17 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Real men answer . . .?]

Black ICE wrote:

> I figured all the gearheads on TML would get a kick out of this....
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Subject: Real men answer . . .?
> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:35:23 EST
> From: VangyArt@aol.com
> To: Wombat@Premier1.premier.net, Baker_Bill@compuserve.com, Willspiff@juno.com,
>      impainter@hotmail.com
>
> Multiple choice.  You must answer truthfully:
>
> 1. Alien beings from a highly advanced society visit the earth.  You
> are the first human they have encountered and as a token of
> inter-galactic friendship they present you with a small but
> incredibly sophisticated device that is capable of curing all
> diseases, provide an infinite supply of clean energy, wipe out
> hunger, and permanently eliminate oppression and violence. What would
> you do with it?
>
> A. Present it to the Prime Minister
> B. Present it to the Secretary General of the United Nations.
> C. Take it apart.

D. Use it myself.

bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:33:50 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Windows on Starships

<tongue-in-cheek>
Windows on starships.  A really Bad Idea.

Go with Unix, or maybe OS/2.  Perhaps Mac OS for civilian ships.

But _not_ Windows.  (Can you imagine getting the Blue Screen Of Death
just as you initiate jump?)

(And keep the Java in the galley, where it belongs.)
</tongue-in-cheek>

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:58:49 EST
From: RSpake2064@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Real men answer . . .?]

In a message dated 98-11-17 17:51:05 EST, you write:

<< Multiple choice.  You must answer truthfully:
  
 1. Alien beings from a highly advanced society visit the earth.  You
 are the first human they have encountered and as a token of
 inter-galactic friendship they present you with a small but
 incredibly sophisticated device that is capable of curing all
 diseases, provide an infinite supply of clean energy, wipe out
 hunger, and permanently eliminate oppression and violence. What would
 you do with it?
 
 A. Present it to the Prime Minister
 B. Present it to the Secretary General of the United Nations.
 C. Take it apart. >>

D.  Use it to conquer 2/3rds of the Earth (every thing east of the Rhine to
the Pacific Ocean will do..) and spend 10 years of turning the Great and
Mighty SPAKE Empire into a military, ecconomic powerhouse, that is close to a
Utopia (or SPAKEtopia as i shall call it!) as is possible with this little
magic device!

then i will gather up all the lawyers and kill them (well, the cute ones like
ally mcbeal can live).  

i would start out doing all those kewl things on that "If I ever Become An
Evil Overlord" list that is running around the net......

richard

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:04:58 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Windows on Starships

Black ICE wrote:
> 
> <tongue-in-cheek>
> Windows on starships.  A really Bad Idea.
> 
> Go with Unix, or maybe OS/2.  Perhaps Mac OS for civilian ships.
> 
> But _not_ Windows.  (Can you imagine getting the Blue Screen Of Death
> just as you initiate jump?)
> 
> (And keep the Java in the galley, where it belongs.)
> </tongue-in-cheek>

Does this mean Vilani ships run COBOL under VMS? 

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 19:16:36 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: uplifting

At 12:42 PM 11/17/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Mon, 16 Nov 1998 18:43:35 EST, Sethkimmel@aol.com
>
>>In a message dated 11/16/98 3:15:54 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>>eclipse@ultranet.com writes:
>>
>><< I can see partially uplifted canines for scouting work (both military and
>> exploring). >>
>>
>>aren't they called Vargr? Seriously; I'd love to see the sparks fly when our
>>intrepid PC's walk into the bar with the uplifted dog, and the Vargr get a
>>sight (or should I say smell) of them. The flying fur (and lead) should be
>>VERY entertaining...
>
>Why should a Vargr react any differently to an unlifted dog than
>a human to an uplifted chimp?
>
>(Factoid, the closest genetic reliative to chimps is humans.
>They are more closely related to us than to other primates).
>

Your a little behind. The Binobo of Madagascar have been shown to be
sligtly closer.

Wonder, though, how the Imperium react to finding a planet of Cro - Magnon
or the like. Would the regard them as human or ape?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:18:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com>
Subject: .22 cal. 

From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>

I have not heard of someone being killed with a single .22 cal bullet
except through blood loss (not receiving medical attention). 

************************************
Talk to some cops when you get a chance.  A .22 can pierce the skull,
especially through the eyes, temples, or palate, but even through the
thick parts, too.  

- --Glenn
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:44:57
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

>From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
>Subject: Re: Smuggling
>
>>You check the actual cargo against the manifest, copy the manifest, then
>>batch it up and send the batched manifests back to the source worlds. They
>>cross check it against outgoing cargos declared, and a form letter to who
>>the manifest says you bought it off.
>
>I can't speak for other but you are invisioning an universe
>where every cargo generates a form from every world that gets
>shipped back to the source and checked.  This alone will be
>non-trivial in a universe where every message has to be
>physically carried and of limited usefulness when replies
>arrive weeks or months later.  One also has to then ask why
>the Imperium isn't keeping similar record at the same level
>(convictions, births, who travels where, etc.) and leaves you
>with a picture of the Imperium that is much more centrally
>directed and involved in details than I personally have ever
>seen it as being.
>

Every legitimate cargo, and a lot of illegitimate ones, creates paperwork,
true. Typically a receipt from the guy you bought it off, so they can take
their records to their accountant at the end of the year, to see if they
made money or not. And usually a couple of entries in your ship's log.
Often a warehousing or a stevedoring receipt too. See, businesses need to
keep records so they can keep track of what they do.

The *targetted* checks are the only ones that have this information checked
by the authorities, and I envisioned about 3% of total cargo having this
check done - and thats one bit of paper per cargo, so if you are carrying
43 dtons of Vesuvian Pobble Beads and 15 dtons of Dried Arguvid Fish, thats
2 bits of paper, one for Vesuvia and one for Arguvid. Considering cargo has
to be worth about Cr 5000 a dton to be worth shipping, this is low overhead
(call it 2 hours of bureaucrat time to check, plus Cr 10 to send the form
to the source worlds).

As far as the canonicity of this, I'd like to remind people of the
existance of Legal skill in Merchant Price, and the roll to pass customs
checks on inspections.

It doesnt really matter how long the check takes to do, within reasonable
limits. Needless to say, ships that seem to be running away from somewhere
gets their ships logs checked more closely.

Nasty customs officials interview the crew members seperatly, making a pro
forma offer of a free pardon and reward if the ship is in fact a smuggler etc.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:59:25 +1000 (EST)
From: JEFFREY MALONE <j1.malone@student.qut.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Real men answer . . .?]

1. Alien beings from a highly advanced society visit the earth.  You
are the first human they have encountered and as a token of
inter-galactic friendship they present you with a small but
incredibly sophisticated device that is capable of curing all
diseases, provide an infinite supply of clean energy, wipe out
hunger, and permanently eliminate oppression and violence. What would
you do with it?

A. Present it to the Prime Minister
B. Present it to the Secretary General of the United Nations.
C. Take it apart.

D. Kindly thank the aliens, and then when they are not looking, kill as
many of them as I could and start running.  If they are that advanced,
they would probably have a change of heart some time and start crushing us
like flat-worms.  Piss off space creatures, this is our $%^&%$ planet!

The Exceedingly Cynical Academician Boris Kalashnikov

*******************************************************************************
Jeff Malone
PhD Student - Department of Justice Studies, Kelvin Grove Campus, QUT
              Kelvin Grove  QLD  4052
Phone:        (07) 3864-3597
Fax:          (07) 3864-3991/2 
*******************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:54:40 -0500
From: "Paul Schirf" <pc@PerkWorks.com>
Subject: Shiiva Deckplans

I'm currently converting my homegrown Shiiva deckplans to CC2 to be added to
my site in a few days... but I have a question.  What other sources for
Shiiva class deckplans exist(ed)?

Paul Schirf
Paul@Schirf.com
http://www.PerkWorks.com/traveller/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:56:55
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

>From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
>Subject: re: Smuggling
>
>Ian Whitchurch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>RICO-type laws allowing siezure of ships involved in smuggling and piracy
>could even make the whole operation self-funding.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
>Sounds like every free trader captain's nightmare. Not only do you get
>a soulless bureacrat looking over your ship's papers every stop, now
>you offer this soulless bureacrat a MCr40 prize if he finds (or creates)
>a big enough irregularity in your paperwork.
>
>That much cash is a corruption risk, as we've been finding out in
>America - lots of police departments have been engaging in some very
>suspect behaviour, because there is profit for the police department
>(or even for the individual officers) in doing so.
>


What a magnificently cool plot hook :) 'We've found this problem, and
unless you solve x problem for the Starport Governor, then I would advise
you to put a very expensive lawyer on retainer'.

Seriously, the above could well be a major reason why Free Traders had
Legal skill as a pre-req to make Captain back in Merchant Prince.

It is also fair to assume that the Imperium is at least reasonably corrupt
(quick, what other game has Bribery as a standard character skill ?), so
the above could well be a problem.

>Imagine you're a tourist, and you've heard a rumour that Willaby, New
>York has police officers that will covet your nice new sports car, and
>will stop you and plant evidence of drug use in your car so they can take
>it - and keep it even if you are found innocent. Even if the rumours are
>a little hard to believe, would you drive through Willaby or take a
>different route? Now multiply the value of your vehicle by a factor of
>a thousand. A planet seizing ships on basis of such investigations had
>better keep the ships it seizes and use them as traders, because it
>might not see any others for a very long time. This would be so even
>if it were an Imperial official actually doing the seizing - traders would
>stay away from that official's area of authority, whether it were a planet,
>subsector, or sector.
>

Incidentally, the Customs sidebar on p37-8 of G:T outlines a case very
similar to the above, except it seemed to be being done by planetary,
rather than Imperial, authorities.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:09:09 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Personal Announcement

>> Crying-3 Looking Cute-2 

> Outstanding.  But you *SURE* she's only Looking Cute-2?

Without seeing her, I'd estimate  Looking Cute-1 (+2 DM for friends, +6 for
parents, +10 for grandparents). Wait a few months. Also Nursing-1,
Crying-2, Sleeping-3, Burdening the Recycling System-3.

Congrats.
   

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:09:14 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

Frank Pitt wrote:

>> I can think of three or four ways for smugglers to make life
>>hard for customs forces.  What kind of TL and level of development
>>would be needed to shut down smuggling to or from orbital
>>space?

>Just what we've got now, really, stuff doing re-entry is pretty
>easyto detect, though _policing_ it may be difficult, it's probably
>less difficult than policing a sea coast.

With surface-to-orbit traffic on a routine basis, would a
small shuttle get much more attention than a small boat or a
small plane does now? The US is not particularly effective at policing a
1-D border. 
 
>>When, besides in the cases of slavery or nuclear weapons, would
>>the Imperium get involved in anti-smuggling efforts?

>When it found it expedient to do so, as always.
>Hell, given the way the Imperium is constructed they're very
>likely to engage in smuggling themselves where they need to,
>like the US involvement in the smuggling of bibles into the
>Soviet Union.

What was that line on Mission: Impossible about the Secretary
denying everything?
  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:55:57 -0500 (EST)
From: neo@total.net
Subject: Ciggie Porn?

>Douglas E. Berry says
>>(For a look at what you can get away with, take a look at the illo of the
>>messy starship interior in Behind the Claw.. take a *real* close look at
>>the pack of smokes on the table...)

Why, how did *that* get there? I've never seen it before - honest, officer!

For the record, I'm a straight-edge and have never touched the stuff. But
the characters in the illo are clearly less reputable than the artist...

<diving for cover before the Narcs arrive>

<and wondering what'll happen if somebody with a magnifying glass somehow
decyphers the invented alien fonts in my G:T illos>

GMG
(still waiting for my copies of Behind the Claw, Loren, hint hint)

   ------------------------Glenn Grant------------------------  
                         <neo@total.net>
             Now in trade paperback from Tor Books:
   _Northern Stars: The Anthology of Canadian Science Fiction_
             Edited by David Hartwell & Glenn Grant
    "Sex times Technology equals The Future." -- J.G. Ballard

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 22:12:19 -0500
From: "Paul Schirf" <pc@PerkWorks.com>
Subject: Re: uplifting

> Wonder, though, how the Imperium react to finding a planet of 
> Cro - Magnon or the like. Would the regard them as human or ape?

I included such a world in one of my games years ago.  I made it
a restricted star system with lots of *official* science vessel traffic
in it's nearest neighbor.  The players had heard rumors that the
system included an Ancients site.  They were offered a healthy
sum of money to investigate.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 22:44:11 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

Glenn Goffin wrote:

> From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
>
> I have not heard of someone being killed with a single .22 cal bullet
> except through blood loss (not receiving medical attention).
>
> ************************************
> Talk to some cops when you get a chance.  A .22 can pierce the skull,
> especially through the eyes, temples, or palate, but even through the
> thick parts, too.

Thats certainly true.  People die to .22s all the time.  Although there
are real sniper and firearms experts on this list, in olden days, cops
would know that a person killed with a .22 was shot by an expert.

And those .22s rattle around inside you a lot.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:01:17 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: uplifting

> Why should a Vargr react any differently to an unlifted dog than
> a human to an uplifted chimp?

Well look how the Solomani treat them...  There's also Planet of the Apes...

I've read recently bout a product that talked a lil bit bout the Gene War and
uplifting... it also included WBH profiles for worlds in teh Solomani Rim.
Does anyone know anything about this?  Title was... The Gene Wars Chronicles
by Atoll.  I've never heard of them...  What else did they release?

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:54:52 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Windows on Starships 

> Black ICE wrote:
> > 
> > <tongue-in-cheek>
> > Windows on starships.  A really Bad Idea.
> > 
> > Go with Unix, or maybe OS/2.  Perhaps Mac OS for civilian ships.
> > 
> > But _not_ Windows.  (Can you imagine getting the Blue Screen Of Death
> > just as you initiate jump?)
> > 
> > (And keep the Java in the galley, where it belongs.)
> > </tongue-in-cheek>
> 
> Does this mean Vilani ships run COBOL under VMS? 

That & FORTRAN IV.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 15:10:40 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Just some thoughts about combat...

> From: dberry@hooked.net
> Subject: Re: Just some thoughts about combat...
> Date: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 4:23 AM

> >Manifesto
> These are the standing Orders, Rodgers Rangers.  First issued in 1764 by
> Col. Rodgers for his irregular force during the French and Indian War.
> Still used today.

You are correct ser...

> >Ten Commandments
> Issued by Richard Marchinko, founder of SEAL Team 6 and passable
novelist.

Again, you are correct ser...

> >The soldiers job is not to die for his country, but to make the other
guy
> >die for his.
> This was first said by Gen. George Patton.

In public only ser...

> | Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 15:15:15 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Just some thoughts about combat...

> From: Smart, David J (David) <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
> Subject: Re: Just some thoughts about combat...
> Date: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 2:20 PM
> > >The soldiers job is not to die for his country, but to make 
> > the other guy
> > >die for his.
> > This was first said by Gen. George Patton.
> The statement gives the gist of what he said but not the exact
> wording. Patton's words was more..."colorful".

The correct turn of his phrase & I may be wrong on this, was...

"The soldiers job is not to die for his country, but to make the other
bastard die for his."

Btw, we have the culture-guys & the gearheads, but is there any term for
the gamers who like the military?

Legate Legion,  Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 98 01:31:59 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Just some thoughts about combat...

On 11/17/98 at 03:15 PM,  "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com> said:

>The correct turn of his phrase & I may be wrong on this, was...

>"The soldiers job is not to die for his country, but to make the
>other bastard die for his."

"...other *poor* bastard die for his."


>Btw, we have the culture-guys & the gearheads, but is there any term
>for the gamers who like the military?

How about grognard? ;-> Wargamers, to be sure, but gamers still!

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1153
***********************************

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Traveller-digest    Wednesday, November 18 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1154



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

re: Traveller Relevant SF Titles
Re: IW: Prometheus Rising 1/6
Re: Smuggling
Re: First Contact future history
Re: First Contact future history
Re: Smuggling
Re: .22 cal. 
Re: .22 cal.
Re: Just some thoughts about combat...
Re: Re Combat systems
Re: your mail
re: Traveller Relevant SF Titles
Re: .22 cal. 
Re: .22 cal.
Re: Traveller Relevant SF Titles
Re: IW: Prometheus Rising 1/6
Re: Freeze Dried Water
Re: Traveller-relevant SF titles
Re: MIL SF Reading List
Chview help needed!
re: Just some thoughts on combat
RE: Smuggling
Re: uplifting
Re: Smuggling
Re: Just some thoughts about combat...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:33:56 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Traveller Relevant SF Titles

Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz> wrote:

>Iain M. Banks: _Consider Phlebas_ has already been mentioned, but while
>less Travelleresque I'd also say _Against a Dark Background_ and _Use of
>Weapons_.

_Use of Weapons_ is a little twisted, but it does hold a place close to my
heart for being one of the few books I got to the end of and thought _huh?_
and re-read it because I just didn't see the outcome.

>Robert Heinlein: His 'boy's own' style stories are actually pretty good for
>getting the atmosphere of low tech space travel, not mention 'interesting'
>problems to throw at players. The same applies to A.C. Clarke's work.

Definitely _Rendezvous with Rama_ but not the later Rama books which were
pretty dire, and deteriorated... _2010_ is a good one too.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:39:00 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: IW: Prometheus Rising 1/6

 "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz> wrote:

>>I thought it was the KHS (Kajuki Hyperspace Shunt) invented by Dr Fawzi
>>Kajuki.  That's what's in Galactic anyways.  You have different names for
>>different sources (want to be able to trace who's reading your work from
>>where?) or is Mr Kajuki not a friend of yours anymore? ; )  I think i might
>>have noticed a couple other names that were different too... (like the Vilani
>>provincial govenor of one of the middle wars).
>
>It was changed (along with Deir Yassin Deep Space Base) because on more
>sober reflection my personal politics have no place in Traveller (I will
>point that
>this was done entirely at my own volition, I doubt very many people would
>have
>got the references anyway).

_whistle_ <the sound of the references passing far above my head>

I didn't spot the politics in the references if it's any consolation.
However, the KHS etc changed name went down a storm at GenCon 98 UK in the
GT scenario. Traveller but different.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 00:48:27 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Smuggling

>From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
>Subject: Re: Smuggling
...
>as being.  For me, the Imperium has always been a laisse-faire
>(in the philosophical sense, no the strick economic sense) kind

  Having just spent most of a year and a bit studying recent right-wing
US polemics on the joys of capitalism and its' inevitable victory over
Communism, I would love to find a source for the description of "laissez
- -faire" as a political philosophy (rather than the economic doctrine
descriptor with which I'm familiar). I assume that it refers to a school
more detailed than "what Milton Friedman just said"?

...
>arrive weeks or months later.  One also has to then ask why
>the Imperium isn't keeping similar record at the same level
>(convictions, births, who travels where, etc.) and leaves you
>with a picture of the Imperium that is much more centrally
>directed and involved in details than I personally have ever
>seen it as being.

  See "Imperial Identity Document", GURPS: Trav, p.40. I've already
expressed my discomfort at the description, but it's still there.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 07:53:48 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: First Contact future history

 "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org> wrote:

> "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au> wrote:
>(snip)
>
>>Not all referees would want to use this option.  Some would prefer to use
>>the "little buddy of the USA" model.  Fine.  It should be their choice, but
>>this kind of option wouldn't necessarily appear in detailed canonical
>>material.
>
>Aw, how cute.  Look, everybody, the Ozzies and Kiwis are gettin' uppity
>again...
>
>*grins and ducks*

<TONGUE FIRMLY IN CHEEK>
Typical colonials, whinge, whinge, whinge!
They don't know how good they've got it.
They should be proud of being a satellite state.
</TONGUE FIRMLY IN CHEEK>

OBTrav: I assume that by M1100 there will be a distinct difference between
the Core and the Marches. One viewing the other as philistines with no
culture, and the Marches viewing the Core as a bunch of stuck up snobs?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 07:56:26 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: First Contact future history

Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil> wrote:

>Interesting story of 2
>countries in North America.  That should cause plenty of divergence from
>present reality plain enough.....

I was always under the impression there are two countries in North America
already. When did Canada annexe the USA?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 01:13:04 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Smuggling

>From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: Smuggling
...
>With surface-to-orbit traffic on a routine basis, would a
>small shuttle get much more attention than a small boat or a
>small plane does now? The US is not particularly effective at policing a
>1-D border. 

  I _really_ hope you mean 2-D, there :>

  Besides, the modern US pays relatively little attention to small craft
because it doesn't much care*.

  For smuggling stuff onto more thorough worlds, you need _talent_:

  "Solo? They finally nailed him and the fleabag last year - so if you
want to score that small parcel on time, it's me you have to deal with.
The name's Rust - Mathias Rust..."

  * a recent hash bust off our Left Coast involved a ship being escorted
in from international waters by a Forces destroyer - any authorities can
be really in your face if they try**

  ** except the 17-18th C. Kingdom of Poland, and look what it got them...

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:31:48 +0000
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: .22 cal. 

At 17:18 17/11/1998 -0800, Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
>
>I have not heard of someone being killed with a single .22 cal bullet
>except through blood loss (not receiving medical attention). 
>
>************************************
>Talk to some cops when you get a chance.  A .22 can pierce the skull,
>especially through the eyes, temples, or palate, but even through the
>thick parts, too.  
>
This anecdotal stuff is all very well but it misses the point totally.

Traveller is both a "role playing" and a "roll playing" game.

On any system (2d6, nd6, d20, d100) if the chance to do something is
less than 1%, I'm not really interested in it [1].

[1] If rolling all "1"s is required in a given task system [2],
    then I don't mind leaving the possibility open for someone
    rolling 5 "1"s on 5d6 but the system should be designed to
    work for someone rolling 1 or 2 dice.

[2] Not a canon task system. The point is that I don't want
    to have a system that is massively complicated in order
    to handle all manner of extremely unlikely events.

    That way lies Rolemaster :-)


So the question is:

	What is the chance of being killed by a .22 ?

	How much skill is required to make that chance 1%, 5%, 50%, 100% ?

	Do the task systems accurately model these numbers?

Phil Kitching

- --
  Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
 "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 04:29:36 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

- -----Original Message-----
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>

>
>
>Glenn Goffin wrote:
>
>> From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
>>
>> I have not heard of someone being killed with a single .22 cal bullet
>> except through blood loss (not receiving medical attention).
>>
>> ************************************
>> Talk to some cops when you get a chance.  A .22 can pierce the skull,
>> especially through the eyes, temples, or palate, but even through the
>> thick parts, too.
>
>Thats certainly true.  People die to .22s all the time.  Although there
>are real sniper and firearms experts on this list, in olden days, cops
>would know that a person killed with a .22 was shot by an expert.
>
>And those .22s rattle around inside you a lot.
>
>Bloo


Actually, I remember reading once that .22 caliber guns were very popular
among mafia executioners at one point or another. I never found out why
though.

Chris Seamans (semo@pil.net)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 02:57:30 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Just some thoughts about combat...

> From: Eris Reddoch <eris@gulf.net>
> Subject: Re: Just some thoughts about combat...
> >The correct turn of his phrase & I may be wrong on this, was...
> >"The soldiers job is not to die for his country, but to make the
> >other bastard die for his."
> "...other *poor* bastard die for his."

Forgot about the "poor" part...  Thank you Eris...

> >Btw, we have the culture-guys & the gearheads, but is there any term
> >for the gamers who like the military?
> How about grognard? ;-> Wargamers, to be sure, but gamers still!

How about "goddamns", what the grognards called the British?  Let the
wargamers be called "grognard"...  Btw, french for Grumbler & the nickname
for Napaloen's<sp> veteran troops...

> Eris

Legate Legion,  Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:46:24 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Re Combat systems

At 22:04 16/11/98 -0900, William F. Hostman wrote:

>One other thing: T4 lacks bleeding rules (*Hell, so does CT, MT, and TNE*)
>that will cause a bleed-out situation. If you want to have that level of
>detail in the system, great. In MT, it IS (Very marginally) covered by the
>conversion from DP to attribute losses and time to degrade if untreated.
>(Wounds and Healing section of MT Player's Manual, pages 75&82). If there
>are similar in the Mk1Md1 TNE book or in T4, provide a page reference,
>please.

TNE has a simple bleeding rule for critical wounds. On page 288 of TNE
Mk1mod1 it says that characters with critical wounds must receive medical
attention within 10 minutes or die 9note that this doesn't apply to head
shots, as a critical to the head automatically reults in death).

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:52:35 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: your mail

At 23:28 17/11/98 +0800, Benjamin Barton wrote:

>And there is rules for one shot one kill (for NPC's) p286 (quick kill).  You
>are required to roll under the damage inflicted in one attack.

Actually that bit's not awesomely clear. It uses the phrase "damage value",
and it's not very clear whether this is the rolled damage or the number of
dice rolled.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 00:06:42 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: re: Traveller Relevant SF Titles

At 18:33 17/11/98 +0000, SD Mooney wrote:

>Definitely _Rendezvous with Rama_ but not the later Rama books which were
>pretty dire, and deteriorated... _2010_ is a good one too.

I was mainly thinking of books like _A Fall of Moondust_ and _Islands in
the Sky_, plus a few others whose names I forget.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 03:12:43 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: .22 cal. 

At 05:18 PM 11/17/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
>
>I have not heard of someone being killed with a single .22 cal bullet
>except through blood loss (not receiving medical attention). 
>
>************************************
>Talk to some cops when you get a chance.  A .22 can pierce the skull,
>especially through the eyes, temples, or palate, but even through the
>thick parts, too.  

There was an LAPD officer who was hit in the foot by a .22 round, went into
shock, and died before aid could arrive.  I use that story along with the
guy who survived a point-blank .45 round to the head to illustrate the
difficulty in accurately modeling gunshot wounds.
- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 03:14:56 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

At 04:29 AM 11/18/98 -0500, you wrote:

>Actually, I remember reading once that .22 caliber guns were very popular
>among mafia executioners at one point or another. I never found out why
>though.

Low signature.  You can fire a .22 and it's hard to hear ten feet away.  If
you are firing directly into the back of someone's skull (the traditional
method), a .22 is plenty big enough.

Also, a .22 is small and easily concealed from casual examination.
- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:35:55 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: Traveller Relevant SF Titles

On Mon, 16 Nov 1998, Walter Smith wrote:

> _The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_, Robert Heinlein: picture of an alternate
> society, one pretty harshly based on the TANSTAAFL concept. Also not
> a bad picture of a vaccum world colony. 

Not to forget: the Number one example of a Zero Law Level.
For the more visually affected - 'Total Recall' showed the life of a 
thin atmosphere world colony - corporation government included.

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 00:53:59 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: IW: Prometheus Rising 1/6

Date sent:      	Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:39:00 +0000
From:           	SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>

> "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz> wrote:

>>It was changed (along with Deir Yassin Deep Space Base) because on more
>>sober reflection my personal politics have no place in Traveller (I will
>>point that
>>this was done entirely at my own volition, I doubt very many people would
>>have
>>got the references anyway).

>_whistle_ <the sound of the references passing far above my head>

Fawzi Kajuki was the commander of the Arab Liberation Army in the 1948
Arab-Israeli War and Deir Yassin was the site of the worst Israeli atrocity in
the same war.

>I didn't spot the politics in the references if it's any consolation.
>However, the KHS etc changed name went down a storm at GenCon 98 UK in the
>GT scenario. Traveller but different.

Glad to here it :*>

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:53:25 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Freeze Dried Water

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erikson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>.
>  Back in scouts, shortly after Zip-lock bags got moderately common, I
>  took a couple and slapped on a pair of hand made labels that said
>  "Freeze-Dried Water".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> I'm probably not the only one, but it took me a couple times through
> Leonard's paragraph to stop thinking "IISS" and start thinking "BSA".
>
> <G>

What makes that *really* funny is that someday I want to put together a
IISS uniform to wear at cons. Given how out of shape I am, I figure I
can easily get away with claiming to be an X-boat pilot. After all,
there's no room to excercise on those things.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:02:53 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-relevant SF titles

In mail you write:

>         9 - The Draka series by S.M.Stirling. Truly, madly, horrible
> books abouta race of narcissistic super-villains, but a good
> impression of what the Swordworlders and other nazis would like to
> be. Atrociously written but at the same time bursting with good
> ideas, and a very naturalistic handling of hi-tech, especially in The
> Stone Dogs and Drakon.

Actually, I find them fairly well written. Stirling takes on an
*extraordinarily* difficult task and pulls it off. The Draka are
*alien*. To use John W. Campbell's old "rule", they think as *well* as
humans, but not *like* humans. 

They live by a "moral code" that *we* find reprehensible. But they
*follow* it. Complete with all the implied attitudes and consequences. 

He manages to write about these human monsters and make you admire them
even as you loathe them.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:46:24 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: MIL SF Reading List

Here are a couple of books that should give some *interesting* scenario
ideas.

"Spooker" Someone is killing intelligence agents for their "bug out
kits" (spookers). 

"Flying to Pieces" On his deathbed a WWII flyertells his buddies where
to find a cache of hidden Japanese aircraft. If the planes are still
intact, they are worth millions as rare aircraft.

Both are by Dean Ing. The first one has a *lot* of "spy craft" details,
and would be a great way to give players nightmares. The second could
easily be converted to a cache of old spacecraft from one of the
Frontier wars.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:19:53 +0000
From: "Jens Maskus" <Jens.Maskus@stud.uni-hannover.de>
Subject: Chview help needed!

How can i Insert/Edit an binary or trinary star yet not created! The Arrows are 
always disabled.


- --------------------------------------------------------------
emailto:Jens.Maskus@stud.uni-hannover.de
- --------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:43:10 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Just some thoughts on combat

Legate Legion wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
Btw, we have the culture-guys & the gearheads, but is there any term for
the gamers who like the military?
>>>>>>>>>>>
"Grognards"?

That's a term for old-guard wargame afficianados, taken from a nickname
for Napoleon's guard units. It might be appropriate.

Walt Smith

Walt Smith
System Manager
Hartwick College
Oneonta, NY
smithw@hartwick.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:59:36 -0500
From: Daniel Mendyke <Daniel.Mendyke@digital.com>
Subject: RE: Smuggling

	>
	>Sounds like every free trader captain's nightmare. Not only do you get
	>a soulless bureacrat looking over your ship's papers every stop, now
	>you offer this soulless bureacrat a MCr40 prize if he finds (or creates)
	>a big enough irregularity in your paperwork.
	>
	>That much cash is a corruption risk, as we've been finding out in
	>America - lots of police departments have been engaging in some very
	>suspect behaviour, because there is profit for the police department
	>(or even for the individual officers) in doing so.
	>

The British were doing just that to colonial merchant ships 
just before the revolution.  John Handcock lost more than
a few ships to 'faulty' paperwork.  This is one reason why
 
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons,
houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable 
searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no
Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause,
supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly
describing the place to be searched, and the persons
or things to be seized, unless addictive drugs are
suspected or the possibility of harmful weapons left 
were children might find them"

was added to the constitution as the an amendment.

- -Daniel

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 07:04:38 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: uplifting

Imaginactra wrote:
>  
> Wonder, though, how the Imperium react to finding a planet of Cro - Magnon
> or the like. Would the regard them as human or ape?

Human...If a Cro-Magnon walked up to you on the street and said hello,
well, you'd just say hello back. Cro-Magnon is not a subspecies
designation but an archaeological/cultural one, they were H. Sapiens
sapiens just like us. On the average they were a bit bigger than us, but
all the evidence indicates that was because they lived a healthy outdoor
life _and_ had abundant food sources....Most modern descriptions of
Neandertals indicate, with a shave, haircut and a suit, you'ld hardly
take a second glance at them, either.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:05:02 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

>  Besides, the modern US pays relatively little attention to small craft
>because it doesn't much care*.
>
Hope you didn't intentionally intend on insulting the US coast guard. They
do try their best. :)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:58:19 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: Just some thoughts about combat...

>"The soldiers job is not to die for his country, but to make the other
>bastard die for his."
>
>Btw, we have the culture-guys & the gearheads, but is there any term for
>the gamers who like the military?

If there isn't, we can start a poll to make one...

How's "grunt" sound?

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1154
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, November 18 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1155



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: First Contact future history
Re: Just some thoughts about combat...
Prometheus Rising
Re: Personal Announcement
Re: Just some thoughts about combat...
Re: First Contact future history
Re: .22 cal.
Shivva Class Patrol Frigate
Re: First Contact future history
Re: Just some thoughts about combat...
Seeds of the Ancients UTUP
Re: Just some thoughts about combat... (Long!)
Re: Just some thoughts about combat... (Long!)
Re: .22 cal.
Re: T5 The Milieux (draft)
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1154
Re: First Contact future history
Re: Smuggling
Re: .22 cal. 
Re: .22 cal.
Re: .22 cal.
The Beyond

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:25:59 -0500
From: Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil>
Subject: Re: First Contact future history

Ooooops!

That would fall under the heading of....


 <<<<<<SPOILER>>>>>>>>


But, Ooooops none the less!  ;->


The Count





SD Mooney wrote:
> 
> Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil> wrote:
> 
> >Interesting story of 2
> >countries in North America.  That should cause plenty of divergence from
> >present reality plain enough.....
> 
> I was always under the impression there are two countries in North America
> already. When did Canada annexe the USA?
> 
> Dom
> 
> ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
> "Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
> that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
> You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
> 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
> MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:01:30 -0600
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: Re: Just some thoughts about combat...

Eris Reddoch posted:
> 
> On 11/17/98 at 03:15 PM,  "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com> said:
> 
> >The correct turn of his phrase & I may be wrong on this, was...
> 
> >"The soldiers job is not to die for his country, but to make the
> >other bastard die for his."
> 
> "...other *poor* bastard die for his."


Patton's exact words from an address to his men were: "Now I want you
to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.
He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country."

> >Btw, we have the culture-guys & the gearheads, but is there any term
> >for the gamers who like the military?
> 
> How about grognard? ;-> Wargamers, to be sure, but gamers still!
> 
> Eris

Naw, just call 'em "Ash".

"Good..bad..I'm the guy with gun." :P



(BTW, thanks to all vets for putting your butts on the
 line when you didn't have to.)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 9:07:49 CST
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@itds.com>
Subject: Prometheus Rising

Oops...  Well, we obviously have differing political views, but I thought
the references were a joke - "Deir Yassin" "Their Ass in" deep space...


sorry...
- --
==========================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist             dmckinne@itds.com =
= International Telecommunications Data Systems           (217) 239-8365 =
= 2109 Fox Drive, Champaign, IL                           (217) 351-8250 =
= Winter War XXVI Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 5-7, 1999 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org     (217) 469-9917 = 
==========================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:15:21 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: Personal Announcement

St. Andy,

I meet this announcement with mixed emotions! While I am happy for you in
this time of joy, and send my sincere wishes for the health and happiness of
both mother and child, it also serves to depress me. How will you ever find
time for the next 18-20 years to improve the FSS2 spead sheet, not to
mention create the much waited for future classic, G:T ship construction
sheet? I fear this is a blow to all the Traveller community that we may well
never recover from...

I see a wall of blackness absorbing Andrew's time. It is growing around the
Akin's household...


Seriously. Congradulations! My best wishes to all!

Mike Peters, Letterworks@CITnet.com
webpage:"Jump Point" http://users.citnet.com/Letterworks/
"For my part, I travel not to go anywhere, but to go. I travel for travel's
sake. The great affair is to move."
Robert Louis Stevenson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 07:40:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Camino <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Just some thoughts about combat...

Legate Legion,  Old Gaming Fart wrote:
> Btw, we have the culture-guys & the gearheads,
> but is there any term for the gamers who
> like the military?

Lifers?





_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 07:47:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Camino <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: First Contact future history

>Interesting story of 2
>countries in North America.  That should cause plenty of divergencefrom
>present reality plain enough.....
I was always under the impression there are two countries in
NorthAmerica
already. When did Canada annexe the USA?
=========================
And when did Greenland, Iceland and Mexico move to other continents?




_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:54:58 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@shell.rt66.com>
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

 
> I have not heard of someone being killed with a single .22 cal bullet
> except through blood loss (not receiving medical attention). 

I remember (this was over 10 years ago or so) a girl wa skilled ina
shopping mall by so idiot who was using a nail gun to drive a nail
into drywall. Went through the girls head and killed her. Heavy
loads for those are lighter than .22LR, and a 10d nail is much
heavier than a .22 slug. (meaning that the round had less energy)

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:57:12 -0500
From: "Paul Schirf" <pc@PerkWorks.com>
Subject: Shivva Class Patrol Frigate

Please excuse the 'Shivva' / 'Shiiva' confusion from yesterday.  Posting
from work will do that sometimes.

Anyway.  I've got several questions about the ship's characteristics.
I understand that there are a number of Zhodani ship plans in/out of
print.  I've never seen any of those plans, so I based my deckplans 
on the image from page 43 of A4 Leviathan.  Are there special
features of a Zhodani ship that I should be aware of?

The next issue is a minor one.  No matter how I calculate it, the cargo 
hold of 24.15 tons seems to be a bizarre number.  Its been 13 years
since I really got into these plans, so perhaps I'm a little lost on weapon
tonnage. Am I missing something?

600 Ton Patrol Frigate 
FP-67424F2-030000-50003-1 
batteries 3 sandcasters / 1 lasers / 1 missiles

Cargo(24.15) Fuel(264) EP(24) Crew(18) TechLevel(13) 
Crew of 18 includes 10 fighter pilots

Command & Control 
 Bridge 20 tons 
 Computer[F 6-fib] 14 tons / 5 EP / 83 MCr

Drives & Fuel 
 Jump Drives[4] 30 tons (HG 5%) 4 MCr / Ton
 Maneuver Drives[2] 30 tons (HG 5%) .7 MCr / Ton
 Power Plant[4] 48 tons (HG 8% at TL 13) 3 MCr / Ton
 Fuel 264 tons 

Accommodations 
 Staterooms (9) 36 tons 

Small Craft 
 10 x 8 ton fighters
 1 x 50 ton fuel shuttle

 Question Here:

 Turrets(6) 6 tons (5) / 5 Tons ???
 Left over for Cargo: 22 tons?? 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:18:14 -0500
From: Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil>
Subject: Re: First Contact future history

Hey, I didn't say ONLY 2 countries in North America, I said its an
interesting story of 2 countries in North America....  Mexico,
Greenland, Iceland (Europe?) didn't really enter into the story at all. 
And Canada?  Well, it fell to the USA....  I mean, AK-47s tended to
unbalance the balance of power in land warfare.

Greg






Rob Camino wrote:
> 
> >Interesting story of 2
> >countries in North America.  That should cause plenty of divergencefrom
> >present reality plain enough.....
> I was always under the impression there are two countries in
> NorthAmerica
> already. When did Canada annexe the USA?
> =========================
> And when did Greenland, Iceland and Mexico move to other continents?
> 
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:35:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Cook <markc@peak.org>
Subject: Re: Just some thoughts about combat...

Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net> writes:

> >Btw, we have the culture-guys & the gearheads, but is there any term for
> >the gamers who like the military?
> 
> If there isn't, we can start a poll to make one...
> 
> How's "grunt" sound?

Pretty much like it's spelled. :^/

        - Mark C.
          Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy
          EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75
          Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR
          NRA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)
          Front Sight First Family member #1

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 mark f. cook * mark cook consulting *  shoestring graphics & printing
 2055 s.w. whiteside dr. * corvallis, or, 97333-1406 * markc@ssgfx.com
 Phone: 541-753-2732      Fax: 541-753-2738       http://www.ssgfx.com
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    > I believe that "decimation" originated with the Roman legions.

    Of course it originated with the Romans! Who else would _need_
    a word that means "kill every tenth person"?  - Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:56:48 -0500
From: "Paul Schirf" <pc@PerkWorks.com>
Subject: Seeds of the Ancients UTUP

Resurrected from my early 80's Traveller days.

Seeds of the Ancients (CT) 057CA4
Ships-0 FlatSpace-0 Jump Mechanics-2 Major Races-5 History-7

Seeds of the Ancients is an alternate Traveller universe which
is still able to use most if not all of the standard CT material.
The various Federations, World Leagues, Race Unions, etc.  
are smaller than in the standard Traveller universe.  Humaniti
Vargr, (and Droyne, in a sense) were still the genetic playthings 
of the Ancients.  Additional races have discovered Jump Drives,
and the technology is REQUIRED for reasonable interstellar travel.
Sublight empires referred to in some CT material just don't exist,
due to the way Jump Mechanics map 3D/4D space to 2D/3D space.
Jump time material is also altered *slightly*.

Paul Schirf
Paul@Schirf.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:51:01 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: Just some thoughts about combat... (Long!)

- -----Original Message-----
From: Legate Legion <legate@futureone.com>


>Btw, we have the culture-guys & the gearheads, but is there any term for
>the gamers who like the military?
>
>Legate Legion,  Old Gaming Fart


My vote goes for "Tommy" from the Rudyard Kipling poem of that name. If you
read the following refrain you'll see that it has more than one TML related
refernce...

Tommy by Rudyard Kipling
I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
    O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
    But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
    The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
    O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
    For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
    But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
    The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
    O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
    Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
    But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
    The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
    O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
    While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",
    But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the
wind,
    There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
    O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
    For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
    But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
    An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
    An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!

Mike Peters, Letterworks@CITnet.com
webpage:"Jump Point" http://users.citnet.com/Letterworks/
"For my part, I travel not to go anywhere, but to go. I travel for travel's
sake. The great affair is to move."
Robert Louis Stevenson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:41:34 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Just some thoughts about combat... (Long!)

"Michael D. Peters" wrote:
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Legate Legion <legate@futureone.com>
> 
> >Btw, we have the culture-guys & the gearheads, but is there any term for
> >the gamers who like the military?
> >
> >Legate Legion,  Old Gaming Fart
> 
> My vote goes for "Tommy" from the Rudyard Kipling poem of that name.

Actually, the first thing that popped into my head when I read Tommy was
the Who song...

The _second_ was Tommy Loy...(you know, "Tommy Loy the Cabin Boy, the
dirty little nipper...."



- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:53:23 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

At 08:54 AM 18/11/98 -0700, you wrote:
> 
>> I have not heard of someone being killed with a single .22 cal bullet
>> except through blood loss (not receiving medical attention). 
>
>I remember (this was over 10 years ago or so) a girl wa skilled ina
>shopping mall by so idiot who was using a nail gun to drive a nail
>into drywall. Went through the girls head and killed her. Heavy
>loads for those are lighter than .22LR, and a 10d nail is much
>heavier than a .22 slug. (meaning that the round had less energy)
>
>-Merrick
>

        The kill range for a .22 long-rifle round is in execess of 5000'
(1500m).  This is presuming that you get struck somewhere important, such as
head or heart.  The problem is that the round has enough energy to
penetrate, by not enough mass to blow through...  so the round lodges and or
richochets around the interior.  This is Bad News, medically.  Get shot in
the leg with a .22LR, and unless it pops the cartoid, you are going to live,
presuming medical care is available.
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 18:24:31 +0100
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <greimann@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: T5 The Milieux (draft)

At 22:18 14.11.98 -0500, you wrote:
>THE MILIEUX
Very nice summary! It discribes how the product line will work and is a
nice appetizer.

> IMPORTANT ERAS IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNIVERSE
Be sure to include a short discription (only about one or two paragraphs)
so that
newbies can imagine what a given millieu will be about. Also include a little
Library Data somewhere nearby that explains the most important facts, like
who are
the Vilani, Vargr, Hiver, etc.

>Era	Important Players	Terran date	Imperial date	TL
>Grandfather’s Children	Droyne	300,000 BC	-300,000	
>False Dawn				
>The Vilani Era	Vilani	10,000 BC		
>Ziru Sirka	Vilani	1500 AD		
TL 11
>The Solar System	Terrans	2100 AD		
TL 11? (or 10)
>Interstellar Wars	Terrans, Vilani	2200 AD		
TL 12/13
>Rule of Man	Terrans, Vilani	2500 AD		
TL 14?
>Long Night	-	3500 AD		
>Early Imperium	Syleans	4500 AD		
TL 13/14
>Aslan Border Wars.	Aslan, Imperial	4800 AD		
>Vargr Campaigns	Vargr, Imperial	4850 AD		
>First Survey	Imperials	5000 AD		
>Barracks Emperors	Imperials	5100 AD		
>Solomani Expansion.	Solomani, Imperials	5200 AD		
>Psionic Suppressions	Imperials, Zhodani	5300 AD		
>The Golden Age		Imperials	5600 AD		
>Rebellion	Imperials	5600 AD		
>Virus Era	-	5600 AD		
>The New Era	-	5700 AD		
I would suggest a one shot book that does for TNE what Survival Margin did
for MT.
Summarize most of what happened in one form or another, and resolve the
loose ends, 
such as the Emp Wave, the Black Curtain, Survival of the Star Vikings, The
Zhodani 
troubles, the K´kree Invasion, the Virus Highway, etc.
>The Far Far Future	-	10,000 AD		
>		
>Faraway Sector	indeterminate	indeterminate		
>The Core Expeditions	Zhodani			
These two i am especially keen on! I always wanted to know more about the
Zhodani
Expeditions. You could include information on the Empress wave here, so it
should 
best be published together with the TNE Wrap up book

>Hiver / K’kree Wars				
Might make an interesting boardgame, but only later on
>Aslan Explorations				
Never heard of those. Could be interesting, though.
>The Phoenix Missions	Solomani			
Same goes for this one!

>Vargr Hordes	Vargr			
>
>	Important players indicate the major races which participate and shape
events
>in the era. Terran date is a typical Earth-centric dates. Imperial date is
the
>corresponding Imperial date. TL is the typical maximum tech level in force.

However, in most areas, only the Terran Dates are give. Add the Imperial Dates 
Volker
- ---
Volker A. Greimann, greimann@geocities.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 18:32:05 -0000
From: "Rob Hymer" <Rob@hymer.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1154

>Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 04:29:36 -0500
>From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
>Subject: Re: .22 cal.

>>Glenn Goffin wrote:
<snip>
>
>Actually, I remember reading once that .22 caliber guns were very popular
>among mafia executioners at one point or another. I never found out why
>though.


From the film 'My Blue Heaven'

(Steve Martin is a mafia enforcer turned informer)
" And then he shot him with a .22. They're small and leave, you know, a
teeny little hole. A .45 gets stuff everywhere. It requires a lot of
dry-cleaning afterwards."

Cheers
Rob Hymer
(Hope my ISP doesn't mess this one up. Apols in advance if it does).

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:56:49 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: First Contact future history

>From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
>Subject: Re: First Contact future history
...
>I was always under the impression there are two countries in North America
>already. When did Canada annexe the USA?

  The coup de grace was when we convinced them that Michael J. Fox was a
cultural icon; their decline from greatness post-Reagan can be directly
attributed to this (viz. Bush, Clinton).

  Of course, now that I've told you that you'll have to be re-programmed,
but a few hours of Baywatch (presided over by none other than David
Hasselhoff! - truly your culture is irredeemably far gone) should reduce
anyone to a suitably quiescent gel atop their spinal cord...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:56:54 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Smuggling

>From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
>Subject: Re: Smuggling
>
>>  Besides, the modern US pays relatively little attention to small craft
>>because it doesn't much care*.
>>
>Hope you didn't intentionally intend on insulting the US coast guard. They
>do try their best. :)

  I meant that the Coast Guard isn't financed to support a much larger
establishment because the government isn't too genuinely concerned with
searching every boat that enters or exits US territorial waters, as it
might be if the phrases "illegal aliens" or "war on drugs" were replaced
by "Trotskyite sabotage/terrorism agents", etc.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:59:08 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: .22 cal. 

At 03:12 18/11/98 -0800, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>At 05:18 PM 11/17/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>
>>From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
>>
>>I have not heard of someone being killed with a single .22 cal bullet
>>except through blood loss (not receiving medical attention). 
>>
>>************************************
>>Talk to some cops when you get a chance.  A .22 can pierce the skull,
>>especially through the eyes, temples, or palate, but even through the
>>thick parts, too.  
>
>There was an LAPD officer who was hit in the foot by a .22 round, went into
>shock, and died before aid could arrive.  I use that story along with the
>guy who survived a point-blank .45 round to the head to illustrate the
>difficulty in accurately modeling gunshot wounds.

I like the one in _Cartridges of the World, 4th edition_ by Frank C.
Barnes. Two guys had a shoot-out over a girl. One had a 9mm Luger the other
a .32 pocket semi-auto. Both men were wounded several times, as the gun
fight moved from the gas station where it started to the car park of the
local hospital, at which point both ran out of ammo. Both walked into the
hospital, and both recovered.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:09:08 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

At 13:53 18/11/98 -0400, Michel Vaillancourt wrote:

>        The kill range for a .22 long-rifle round is in execess of 5000'
>(1500m).  This is presuming that you get struck somewhere important, such as
>head or heart.  The problem is that the round has enough energy to
>penetrate, by not enough mass to blow through...  so the round lodges and or
>richochets around the interior.  This is Bad News, medically.  Get shot in
>the leg with a .22LR, and unless it pops the cartoid, you are going to live,
>presuming medical care is available.

Apparently quite a few people die each year from .22LR bullets, partly
because .22s are often not treated with the respect any firearm deserves,
but also because people hit by stray .22 bullets often don't realise that
they've been shot, and assume that the hole is a shallow puncture from a
thorn or something else. They then die from infections, etc a few days later.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 15:18:13 -0500
From: "Bob Sanders" <bsanders@amghome.com>
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

IMTU .22's can kill...  and nothing creates the fear in combat  better then
having a PC KIA with a small hand gun. I have a home system that uses a hit
location chart with additional damage by location and bleeding rules.
During one rather small firefight a PC was ducking and shooting from behind
a desk, and took a round to the head...  Knocked unconscious by the round,
and bleeding the PC expired before the rest of the team could get over and
help.  Some simple first aid would have been enough.  For that matter, if
the PC had been wearing a helm it would have saved his life.

Needless to say, from then on, all the PC's were looking for armor, flack
vest, helmets, etc... OR trying to stay out of combat.

In any game with combat the rules should be flexible for anything to happen.
I have also had a PC survive a direct hit with a FGMP.  It all depends on
how you play the game.   Tactics, skill, location, damage, and the
occasional freak accident should all be elements of roll playing combat.


Bob Sanders

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 15:18:19 -0500
From: "Bob Sanders" <bsanders@amghome.com>
Subject: The Beyond

In the interest of reviving the old game, I have been "compiling" some ideas
for the Beyond.  It was one of the favorite areas for the PC's to go, after
the calm of the FFW.

Many of the ideas are from my old game, the original PP Beyond little book,
and from this list.  As I never figure to publish this I hope that no one is
upset with any ideas that you may recognize as coming from you.  If you
would like I will be happy to add any credits where due.  Just let me know.

I am interested in some feedback, ideas, and timeline checks.  A few of the
race details will follow.  I really want to get away from the concept of
"humans in suits" and create some different races.

One day I may get to play!

History of The Beyond Sector
* c. -300,000 Ancients reign. In the aftermath of the great war different
types of Humanati minor races are scattered across the region. Races include
Zhodani, Floriani, and Mal' Gnar
* -20000 Sred Ni reach TL 0. Now may be described as sentient species.
* c. -2300 Scattered Vilani explorers and lost ships are reported to have
traveled through the area. Some artifacts have been discovered, mostly in
the Trojan Reach subsector. See Vilani Settlements.
* c. -2100 a group of Terrans leave the Terran Confederation, fearing it
will fall to the Vilani Empire. They pick a destination a long way from the
Vilani Empire, towards spinward. Historians believe that the refugees all
worked for a major corporation headed by an eccentric leader. Most of the
individuals came from the Europe and North America regions on Terra. A major
misjump lands them in what is now called The Beyond. How the sector got the
name is an ongoing debate. Some argue that it refers to the size of the
Vilani Empire and having to go "beyond" their reach. Remnants of what is
believed to be their ship can be found in the Founders Museum on Corell.
* c. -2050 colonists arrive on Earth-type planet in hex 0119. They name it
Corell after the captain of the ship who died as the ship was approaching
the planet. Colonists have TL 10. Early years are surprisingly easy as the
planet is extremely hospitable for humans. Early programs focused on
building the industrial capability to survive and expand the reach of "true"
Terrans before the aliens reach this sector. The original idea was that each
world ran its own affairs independently and cooperated in interstellar
affairs. This led to the settlement of a large cluster of space by a variety
of people. "Kooks" and idealists from the original settlement set up
"utopian" colonies. Some died out. Some evolved into more practical
governments. Most prospered. This is often called the "Dreamer Era".
* c. -1000 after a period of extensive colonization, human populations
occupy most of The Beyond and Vanguard Reaches sectors. However, problems of
communication and travel times leave human space as a group of small states.
Large jump ships are in short supply, so RAM ships are the primary means to
move large number of colonist and supplies to new planets. Companies and
colonist have moved beyond the reach of centralist government on Corell. The
one common goal of these scattered planet states is survival. This stems
from a strong belief that a large interstellar power (Vilani) is closing in
and they must preserve the heritage of "Earth" and "Humaniti".
* c. -600 original state, the Corellian Federation, reaches TL-12. With the
new technology and industrial power the Federation begins to reclaim all of
the scattered colonies. This period of conflict lasts until -120, and is
referred to as the Restoration Wars.
* c. -400 Homeworld of Sred Ni visited by colonizing / exploration mission
from a Corellian Federation Planet. The scouts determine that the aliens
have achieved approximately a TL 2 society. Hostility and attitudes of
aliens leaves scouting mission to classify the planet as a Red Zone and
cancels any plans to colonize. This contact has a profound impact on the
Sred Ni, who until that time felt that they existed alone in the universe.
From this point on they became obsessed with reaching the stars, and
controlling them. The contact also results in the Corellian Federation
declaring all newly discovered planets under TL 4 off limits to interference
from space. Some of the more aggressive member systems interested in further
expansion without interference from the federation, and move to block the
vote. The end result is a consolidation of power by the Federation.
* -243 The Corellian Empire is formed. All power in government now
controlled by one person, Emperor Alexander I.
* -170 Floriani expansion begins.
* -120 Restoration Wars end. Corellian Empire now controls over 50% of the
sector.
* c. 200 Corellian Empire is contacted by the Third Imperium for the first
time. Fears of a large interstellar empire are capitalized on by the
government to strengthen its hold on population.
* 398 Corellian Empire reaches TL 14.
* 436 Emperor Alexander VI dies heirless. The succession wars start - a
bitterly fought civil war. Unfortunately, fighting on the most industrial
and highly populated planets destroys the heart of the empire.
* 506 Florian League formed.
* 525 Corell falls to TL 10 in aftermath of succession wars. War ends due to
lack of resources with which to maintain forces and ships. Empire falls.
* c. 620 Altarian Confederation enters sector.  Force / purchase seven minor
planets from the weakened Corellian Empire.
* c. 720 The Sred Ni discover debris from the succession wars.
* c. 750 Die Veltbond and Stormhaven Republic governments formed, start
expanding in vacuum of Corell collapse.
* c. 770 Sred Ne discover large asteroid heading towards their home world.
Mass exodus to seven habitable planets / moons within the system starts.
Rapid improvements in technology and expansion beyond the system follow.
* c. 800 Traders from Third Imperium enter sector from coreward/trailing as
security increases.
* c. 850 Zhodani influenced colonists enter coreward regions of sector.
* c. 870 Marrakesh Trade Association formed with help from the Third
Imperium to act as a counter to the Zhodani.
* c. 900 Drak-Arr followers are forced out of Third Imperium.  Settle on
Katanga with the blessings of the local government.
* 972 After a 20 year war to conquer factions on the planet and within the
local systems, John Christian forms the 2ed Corellian Empire. (Commonly
referred to as the "Corellian Empire")
* c. 1000 Sred Ni reach TL 11
* 1007 First permanent Imperial Scout Base in The Beyond established.
* 1020 Corellian Empire regains TL 12.
* c. 1050 Aslan ihatei enter sector from trailing.
* 1067 First conflict between Corellian Empire and Sred Ni. War follows
almost instantly.
* 1089 Radical followers of the Drak-Arr religious group gain power on the
now high population world of Katanga. Local government forced out of the
system in exile.
* c. 1090 First sighting of TL 15+ Sred Ni fleet elements. Ancient
technology is suspected.
* c. 1095 For the first time Third Imperium naval units clash with ships
from the Sred Ni in the Dejean (****) system. Intelligence reports that the
Imperium fleet is mauled during the action. Remaining ships flee towards
Storm to regroup.
* c. 1100 Third Imperium sends major fleet assets into sector for the first
time. Fight across entire sector through heart of Sred Ni space. Both sides
sustain heavy damage. The target of the Imperial ships seemed to be the Sred
Ni planets and strategic targets. After action reports indicate that the
raid destroyed over 35% of the Sred Ni ship building capability. The
Imperium establishes a major base in (******), Storm subsector. The system
is classified a Red Zone and the Imperium starts a massive build up of the
systems defenses, for reasons unknown.
* 1103 Outlaw Worlds formed when several Pirate clans successfully gain
economic control over some planetary governments in the Fegoro subsector.
* 1107-10 Fifth Frontier War. Minor skirmishes reported between Zhodani and
Imperium forces in the area.
* 1107 Corellian Empire signs Grange Accord. The Grange Accord is a trade
agreement with the neighboring planets supporting the Corellian war with the
Sred Ni. The support is exchanged for a more representative government on
Corell. Corell's sphere of influence grows by 47%, and the name is changed
to Corellian League.
* 1109 Katanga Empire formed after followers of Drak-Arr instigate mass
religious riots on two neighboring worlds. The resulting chaos force the
local governments to fall and the new representatives align with the
religious leaders on Katanga.
* c. 1111 Combined Imperium / Zhodani / Corellian fleets engage and destroy
large Sred Ni fleet in (****), the Mapipire Subsector. Classified reports
indicate that over 500 ships destroyed, and the planet is severely damaged
during the battle. The system is now listed as a Red Zone, and is heavily
patrolled by Zhodani fleet elements. Rumors indicate that two, possibly
three other fleets were involved during the battle, however no one is sure
where they came from.
* c. 1117-1119 The political situation in The Beyond is now in a state of
flux.  The landless ihatei of the trans-Rift colonies are starting too
expand. Backed by their fellows in the Hierate, they are sweeping out of
Aslan territory into the vast no-man's-land of the Trojan Reach's central
subsectors. As they pressed onward into Imperial territory, lesser powers
were overrun, and the refugees started fleeing into the Beyond. The
governments in the Beyond were not equipped to handle the sudden explosion
of humanoids fleeing the Aslani onslaught. Only the fact that the Sred Ni
were licking their wounds and not able to mount an effective offensive gave
the Beyond time to start absorbing the refugees. Apparently, the Aslan are
content with these holdings, as they have not started moving towards Beyond
territory in the years since. Sophontologists are quick to point out that
this is atypical Aslan behavior, as enough ihatei remain landless to intrude
upon Beyond worlds. Others, however, point to rumors of high-tech Florian
weapons, hastily put into production as the ihatei first crossed the League
borders, and the rapid build up of fleet elements by the governments within
the Beyond Sector.
* 1120 Current day. The Sred Ni War continues as stalemate. Superior alien
technology (TL 13-15+) and masses counteracted by human tenacity,
initiative, and larger fleets as well as deep strike raids focused on
neutralizing the Sred Ni's high tech capabilities. No end to stalemate is
expected. Sred Ni themselves seem occupied by some unusual fighting within
their borders. The Aslan seem to be content with holding what they have been
able to grab, or they are focused on the richer targets to coreward. The
Zhodani lost major fleet elements in the battle of (****), and seem content
to leave the status quo.  It also might be that the rumors are true about a
major discovery during the latest core expeditions that is drawing all of
the Zhodani attention away from the Beyond.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1155
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, November 18 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1156



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

The Beyond - Sred Ne
Re: First Contact future history
Re: .22 cal.
direct hit with FGMP
The Beyond
Re: .22 cal.
Looking for Paul Hume and George Nyhen
Re: .22 cal.
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1154
Re: .22 cal.
Re: .22 cal.
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1154
Re: .22 cal.
Re: uplifting
NPR Piece on Med Shirt (Tech news)
Re: First Contact future history
NightHawk Fighter (TL 12)
Re: The Beyond 
Re: The Beyond
Vargr On The Big Screen
Re: .22 cal.
re: Windows on Starships
Re: [Fwd: Real men answer . . .?]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 15:18:29 -0500
From: "Bob Sanders" <bsanders@amghome.com>
Subject: The Beyond - Sred Ne

I am not sure where the bulk of the ideas in this section came from...
someone on this list I think.  However, I thank you very much for some great
ideas.
Sred Ni:
The Sred Ne is a minor race that is arachnoid but mammalian. Their capitol
is the I' Sred Ne Heptad (2908). Like insects the Sred Ne are specialized at
birth and their physical description vary according to their Zreen (Class or
job description). As near as is possible to estimate the "average" Sred Ne
is about 1.1 meters high, 2 meters long, and weighs about 75 kg. It walks on
six legs and has two arms with digital hands. Its body is covered with long
fur and it has no chitin or exoskeleton. The Breeders (A semi-intelligent
Zreen that produces and nurtures offspring) usually lay eggs in groups of 8
to 14. Most eggs hatch and the majority are Workers. Other Zreen include
Leaders, Sages, Warriors, Technicians, Hunters, and Coalescers. It is this
latter that is the most unique to the Sred Ne. Any small gathering of
individuals at which a Coalescer is present can form a Link. Those in the
Link can communicate telepathically and have access to portions of the
Racial Memory. This makes Links the primary method for making decisions.
Rumors are false that the Sred Ne have a hive mind with no free will or
individuality. Although Sred Ne are hostile towards outsiders, those who
have escaped the Sred Ne testify that unique personalities can be
identified. Although their Zreen limits their mental attributes, only the
Breeders appear to have low intelligence. Even the common Worker is far from
stupid, as many have found out the hard way.
Two traumatic events have shaped the Sred Ne culture. Fifteen hundred years
ago the Sred Ne were an isolated race just beginning to develop trading and
farming communities (TL-2) when a Corellian Federation scout visited their
home system. This visit was a great blow to Sred Ne self image. For
thousands of years their minds had searched the entire planet for signs of
other intelligent life. Eventually their minds covered the entire globe and
they believed that they were alone in the universe. Now they found out that
there were many races out there more advanced then they were and they were
not part of that great Link. In addition, none of the alien races even
resembled the Sred Ne. It is hard for outsiders to understand the impact of
this discovery on their collective minds. For almost 100 years the Sred Ne
isolated themselves as bloody ideological wars decimated them. These wars
prompted the Corellian Federation to place the Sred Ne under the protection
of a Red Zone. They were to stay in isolation until the discovery of several
cashed Corellian ships that were destroyed during the succession wars. This
galvanized the race to a single cause: expand and conquer the stars.
The second traumatic event that shaped the Sred Ne culture occurred about
350 years ago. Just as the Sred Ne were beginning interstellar exploration,
via generation ships, their scientists discovered that a large planetoid was
on a collision course with their home planet. In a massive effort of racial
cooperation as much of the Sred Ne civilization and population was moved to
seven worlds/moons within their home system. The collision made their
homeworld uninhabitable. The decision was made that none of their new homes
would have priority, and more territory must be occupied if the race was to
survive. It is believed that during the colonization of the Seven Worlds the
Sred Ne discovered an Ancient Site that is providing them with advanced
technology. This was the origin of the Seven World Heptad that is the
capitol of the Sred Ne Web.
The Sred Ne culture that emerged and returned to interstellar space was more
resilient, xenophobic and ready to conquer a crowded universe. The are now
considered to be one of the most adaptable and fastest learners around.
Although the most technologically advanced of all local races (due to the
nature of the Ancient technology discovered), they are still culturally
immature. Sred Ne are bent on racial domination, and are willing to use any
means to advance this. These include manipulating populations, or even mass
destruction.
Due to the relatively recent acquisition of technology, the Sred Ne possess
few major shipyards. Thus, space fleets usually consist of a few extremely
large capital ships carrying small craft for boarding and occupation.
Currently the fleet is TL 13 (small ships) to 15+ (most capital ships). For
unknown reasons the fleet is not yet known to have jump-4+ or TL 13+
screens. Also, other than their starships and a few weapons, the rest of the
Sred Ne has few occurrences of very high technology. Other areas often lag 2
or more TL's (TL 11 or so) behind. Some areas are still as low as TL 4-7.
Thus, on a battlefield, there will be large numbers of infantry, but very
few instances of grav tanks and battledress.
Consider enemy implacable foe, no PC's from here.
The Web of the Sred Ne
The Web is the political boundary of the Sred Ne Race (See Sred Ne). The
entire region is classified as a red zone. The Sred Ne appear to be governed
by Committees called Links. These Links are gatherings of 3 or more
individuals around a Coalescer. The Coalescers seem to allow the others to
tap their racial memories as well as develop a kind of mental rapport that
makes decision making faster and easier. The Coalescer acts as a catalyst.
He makes no decisions and takes no part in discussions but he is necessary
for a Link. There is a semi-permanent Link called the Web Masters that
controls overall Sred Ne affairs from the home Heptad. Policy decisions are
made by links. Leaders run the day to day affairs.
Sred Ne have clear and distinct classes that are visible just by appearance.
Leaders make all non-policy decisions. In fact, without leaders or a Link,
little can be decided. That is not to say that if you kill the Leaders the
soldiers will stop fighting. Leaders decide strategy or goals for Sred Ne
individuals, but they have enough skill to decide how things are done.
The Web is fairly low tech, the highest worlds average about Level B, but
they are learning fast due to the Ancient technology discovered. They are
hostile towards outsiders and are extremely xenophobic. They do not allow
non-Sred Ne visitors in their space.  Consider the Web to be classified as a
Red Zone for travel.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 15:38:58 -0500
From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
Subject: Re: First Contact future history

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 07:47:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Camino <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: First Contact future history
>Interesting story of 2
>countries in North America.  That should cause plenty of divergencefrom
>present reality plain enough.....
I was always under the impression there are two countries in
NorthAmerica
already. When did Canada annexe the USA?
=========================
And when did Greenland, Iceland and Mexico move to other continents?
**************
isnt contenental drift wonderful?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:00:07 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

In a message dated 11/18/98 11:50:30 AM Central Standard Time,
misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca writes:

<< Heavy
 >loads for those are lighter than .22LR, and a 10d nail is much
 >heavier than a .22 slug. (meaning that the round had less energy)
>>

Energy always comes up in a discussion small arms rounds. For most rounds,
energy is not nearly as important as where the bullet hits and how much damage
it does. A .22 through the eye into the brain usually kills because it is so
easy for it to do damage; energy is irrelevant (an arrow or a rod pushed
byhand through this same pather probably kills too).

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:55:09 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: direct hit with FGMP

Bob Sanders wrote:
> 
> In any game with combat the rules should be flexible for anything to happen.
> I have also had a PC survive a direct hit with a FGMP.  It all depends on
> how you play the game.   Tactics, skill, location, damage, and the
> occasional freak accident should all be elements of roll playing combat.

In my last sesssion two PCs were killed by direct hits by FGMP-15s. I'm curious
how you managed to let one survive such an attack, given that weapon's damage.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:13:21 -0800
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: The Beyond

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 15:18:19 -0500
From: "Bob Sanders" <bsanders@amghome.com>
Subject: The Beyond

- ------------------------------
     This was great!  Would you consider bringing the time line up to 1201
for those of us who play TNE?  Or at least provide some ideas as to how
they would have dealt with the Rebellion, and the Virus.  Where exactly is
this sector located?  Do you have a map for it?  And the most important
question, could I see the map for use in a small project I'm working on?  I
need a place like this with the history shown it would be perfect.  I hope
you post more regarding this sector.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:38:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Cook <markc@peak.org>
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca> writes:

> The kill range for a .22 long-rifle round is in execess of 5000'
> (1500m).  This is presuming that you get struck somewhere important,
> such as head or heart.  The problem is that the round has enough energy
> to penetrate, by not enough mass to blow through...  so the round
> lodges and or richochets around the interior.  This is Bad News,
> medically.  Get shot in the leg with a .22LR, and unless it pops the
> cartoid, you are going to live, presuming medical care is available.

That would be a neat trick, since there is no Cartoid (artery or vein)
in the body and the "Carotid Artery" (external and/or internal) are in
the neck, not the leg.

Leg wounds most likely to cause hypovolemic shock would result from
hits in the Femoral Artery or Vein, the Anterior or Posterior Tibial
Arteries, the Anterior Tibial Vein, or the Great or Small Saphenous
Veins.  Any other location south of the Pelvis is most likely to
just cause seepage and discomfort.  (This precludes nerve damage
and fractures.)

        - Mark C.
          Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy
          EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75
          Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR
          NRA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)
          Front Sight First Family member #1

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 mark f. cook * mark cook consulting *  shoestring graphics & printing
 2055 s.w. whiteside dr. * corvallis, or, 97333-1406 * markc@ssgfx.com
 Phone: 541-753-2732      Fax: 541-753-2738       http://www.ssgfx.com
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    > I believe that "decimation" originated with the Roman legions.

    Of course it originated with the Romans! Who else would _need_
    a word that means "kill every tenth person"?  - Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:49:23 -0500
From: Andy Slack <AndySlack@compuserve.com>
Subject: Looking for Paul Hume and George Nyhen

I'm trying to get in contact with these two, who wrote the 'Space Quest'
RPG in the late '70s.

Does anyone have an email or other contact address for them,
please?

Cheers -
Andy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:07:34 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

In a message dated 11/18/98 1:34:05 AM Pacific Standard Time, semo@pil.net
writes:

<< Actually, I remember reading once that .22 caliber guns were very popular
 among mafia executioners at one point or another. I never found out why
 though.
  >>

They are subsonic, and thus can be supressed. They also are very neat. You
shoot someone in the head at point blank range, and there is usually no exit
wound, and the entrance wound doesn't bleed much.

Ob. Trav. exotic assasin weapons anyone?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:13:37
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1154

>From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
>Subject: Re: Smuggling
>
>  "Solo? They finally nailed him and the fleabag last year - so if you
>want to score that small parcel on time, it's me you have to deal with.
>The name's Rust - Mathias Rust..."

*giggle*

You are aware that whole shebang was set up by a number of middle-ranking
officers in Air Defense who figured they needed some vacancies in command
positions ?

>From: Daniel Mendyke <Daniel.Mendyke@digital.com>
>Subject: RE: Smuggling
>
>The British were doing just that to colonial merchant ships 
>just before the revolution.  John Handcock lost more than
>a few ships to 'faulty' paperwork.  This is one reason why

<quote deleted for brevity>

>
>was added to the constitution as the an amendment.

Cool. You dont have these legal rights in the Imperium. However, there are
structures in the Imperium that will limit over-enthusiasm by bureaucrats,
notably Amber Zoning by TAS.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:19:18 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

From: dberry@hooked.net <dberry@hooked.net>

>At 04:29 AM 11/18/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>Actually, I remember reading once that .22 caliber guns were very popular
>>among mafia executioners at one point or another. I never found out why
>>though.
>
>Low signature.  You can fire a .22 and it's hard to hear ten feet away.  If
>you are firing directly into the back of someone's skull (the traditional
>method), a .22 is plenty big enough.
>
>Also, a .22 is small and easily concealed from casual examination.


Both are good points. I had read it somewhere (and now I'd love to know
where I read it), and had never really given it too much thought.

I guess now I know.

Chris seamans ( semo@pil.net )

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:21:54 -0600
From: Eris reddoch <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

dberry@hooked.net wrote:

> There was an LAPD officer who was hit in the foot by a .22 round, went into
> shock, and died before aid could arrive.  I use that story along with the
> guy who survived a point-blank .45 round to the head to illustrate the
> difficulty in accurately modeling gunshot wounds.

That's quite true, Doug.  A .22 round that kills outright, or even
delivers a mortal wound, should be a rare, but possible occurrance,
and a .45, point blank to the head, that doesn't kill or mortally
wound should be equally rare.  Not to get into specific systems, and
without getting too complicated I think it *can* be modeled.

Task to shoot someone with a gun.
  Difficulty based on Range. Appropriate Asset (Skill+Attribute...or
whatever).
  Shot to Head or body, doubles damage.

Results:
Marginal success (perhaps, they made it by the exact roll required)
results in a "graze" causing very minor injury (a scratch, perhaps
only 1 point) regardless of the damage roll.
			
Critical success (however the specific system does it) results in a
doubling of any damage rolled. (A shot to the head or body would
result in x4 damage!)

Success results in a normal damage roll.

Failure results in a miss.

Critical Failure (however the specific system does it) results in a
miss plus the chance of damage to friendly parties, a weapon
jam/misfire/explosion, or other outcome dangerous or damaging to the
firer.

A .22, perhaps, only does 1d6 points of damage, but if it is
successfully fired into the target's body or head it may do as many as
12 points, and if a critical success was achieved on the "to hit" task
as many as 24 points. That should be enough to put any unarmored
humanoid in mortal danger.

A .45, perhaps, does 2d6+1 points of damage, but if the success is
only marginal then the target recieves minor damage regardless of the
roll (perhaps only 1 point). On the other hand, a normal success would
result in an average of 8 points damage (avg: 16, max: 26 to body or
head) and a critical success to the body or head could inflict as many
as 52 points (on average 32 points)...either of which should be enough
to drop a cow! ;->

This is part of the combat system that I'm slowly putting together.

Eris

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:24:20 -0000
From: "Peter L.S. Trevor" <ptrevor.trisen@zetnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1154

Rob Hymer wrote:
> > From: "Chris Seamans"

> > Actually, I remember reading once that .22 caliber guns were
> > very popular among mafia executioners at one point or another.
> > I never found out why though.
>
> From the film 'My Blue Heaven'
> (Steve Martin is a mafia enforcer turned informer)
> "And then he shot him with a .22. They're small and leave, you
> know, a teeny little hole. A .45 gets stuff everywhere. It requires
> a lot of dry-cleaning afterwards."


Apparently there is  a  tailor  in  Florida  who  specialises  in
invisibly mending bullet holes, no questions asked.  Her one rule
is: "nothing icky"!



Regards PLST
"Rome wasn't burned in a day."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:21:26 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

From: Sethkimmel@aol.com <Sethkimmel@aol.com>

>In a message dated 11/18/98 1:34:05 AM Pacific Standard Time, semo@pil.net
>writes:
>
><< Actually, I remember reading once that .22 caliber guns were very
popular
> among mafia executioners at one point or another. I never found out why
> though.
>  >>
>
>They are subsonic, and thus can be supressed. They also are very neat. You
>shoot someone in the head at point blank range, and there is usually no
exit
>wound, and the entrance wound doesn't bleed much.


Doug Berry got me already on this, although the neatness is a really
interesting angle.

Chris Seamans ( semo@pil.net )

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 14:26:11 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: uplifting

Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:43:21 EST
Sethkimmel@aol.com

>In a message dated 11/17/98 12:44:27 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>summers@alum.mit.edu writes:
>
><< Why should a Vargr react any differently to an unlifted dog than
> a human to an uplifted chimp?
>  >>
>
>I based that on canon (oh no!) that suggested that they are very racially
>sensitive. I though human uplifted dogs might be seen as an insult.

The are sensitive to insults, but why should they consider it an
insult.  Even a touchy human wouldn't consider uplifting a
chimp to be an insult to him (why should it, he isn't a chimp).
Neither is a Vargr a dog who is going to care what someone
does to s a dog.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:26:40 -0500
From: "Glenn E. Myers" <glenn.myers@mailhub.ansys.com>
Subject: NPR Piece on Med Shirt (Tech news)

Hi all,

If anyone in the US gets a chance, listen to NPR (National Public Radio)
today at 4:45 to 5:00 for a bit on a new T-shirt made with optical
fibers interwoven. This was designed for military use. It gives vital
signs and pinpoints penetrations (wounds) for remote battle medical
assessment. 

Tomorrow a RealAudio version should be up at 
http://www.npr.org/programs/atc/archives/1998/current.html

This seems a very Travish bit of technology to me. Kind of what I've
envisioned for the combat environment suit. I would think that the
liners of combat suits would be something like this.

Bye,

Glenn


______________________________________________________

Glenn E. Myers
ANSYS Inc.                Email: glenn.myers@ansys.com
275 Technology Drive      Phone: (724) 514-2913
Canonsburg, PA 15317      Fax:   (724) 514-3118
______________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:30:49 -0000
From: "Peter L.S. Trevor" <ptrevor.trisen@zetnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: First Contact future history

Aerron Winsor wrote:
>From: Rob Camino <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
>Subject: Re: First Contact future history
>>Interesting story of 2
>>countries in North America.  That should cause plenty of divergencefrom
>>present reality plain enough.....
>I was always under the impression there are two countries in
>NorthAmerica
>already. When did Canada annexe the USA?
>=========================
>And when did Greenland, Iceland and Mexico move to other continents?
>**************
>isnt contenental drift wonderful?
>

According to DVD regions, Greenland and Iceland are part of Europe,
and Mexico is part of South America.  :-^



Regards PLST
"Rome wasn't burned in a day."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:36:46 -0500
From: "N. Eric Phillips" <stilleon@io.com>
Subject: NightHawk Fighter (TL 12)

In 1114 the Imperial Navy ordered a top secret design for an advanced
fighter design for special operations. Specified design parameters included:

* Advanced lightweight armor
* Very fast acceleration
* Streamlining for flights from planetary bases
* Use of advanced laminate armor for low mass and defensive purposes

The desire of the NightHawk program was the result of these goals. The
mission profiles are limited but essential to Imperial security: remain
undetected for as long as possible, launch a surgical strike against an
opponent taking away their offensive capabilities then fleeing from the area
before more conventional naval combat is required. Standard ordinance in
three missile racks.

The NightHawk fighter fulfills this need. On 020-1120 the first NightHawk
squadron was deployed for defense purposes with the 212th Fleet at Jewell.
This program is highly classified and the Navy denies any knowledge of the
NightHawk fighter.

NIGHTHAWK FIGHTER (TL 12)

Crew: Pilot and Gunner

10-ton SL hull, DR 125 (laminate armor), Turret, 3 missile racks, Cockpit
bridge, 6 M-Drive, Radical stealth and emissions

Statistics: Mass 74.1, Cost 12.22, HP Hull 3000, Hull Size Mod +6
Performance: Accel 8.09G, Airspeed 4,009

(Note: Laminate armor is listed in Vehicles 2 ed. It has its DR doubled vs.
HEAT warheads, like those in SIM 10 and SIM 12 missiles.)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:46:03 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: The Beyond 

> 
> 
> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 15:18:19 -0500
> From: "Bob Sanders" <bsanders@amghome.com>
> Subject: The Beyond
> 
> ------------------------------
>      This was great!  Would you consider bringing the time line up to 1201
> for those of us who play TNE?  Or at least provide some ideas as to how
> they would have dealt with the Rebellion, and the Virus.  Where exactly is
> this sector located?  Do you have a map for it?  And the most important
> question, could I see the map for use in a small project I'm working on?  I
> need a place like this with the history shown it would be perfect.  I hope
> you post more regarding this sector.

Well, considering that it would be unaffected by Virus (since it's on the other side of the Reggies from the Core), about all that should change too drastically would be some pops & some tech.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 14:48:59 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: The Beyond

Cool stuff!

I've seen the Floriani mentioned in DG material, who are the Sred Ni and 
the Mal 'Gnar and what are they like (appearance, culture, homeworlds...)?

Thanks-


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:56:13 -0600
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: Vargr On The Big Screen

Folks, I just downloaded and viewed the trailer for the
next Star Wars movie. Although it's a very small Quicktime
display, I'd *swear* one of the computer-generated
characters is a Vargr! Bipedal, two-armed with a
dog's head, natural movement...one incredible rendering!

If you want to download it, try:

http://i.am/dvduser

WARNING: do it just before you go to bed, assuming
you get access. :-)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 23:04:44 -0000
From: "Peter L.S. Trevor" <ptrevor.trisen@zetnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

Marc wrote:
> Energy always comes up in a discussion small arms rounds. For
> most rounds, energy is not nearly as important as where the bullet
> hits and how much damage it does. A .22 through the eye into the
> brain usually kills because it is so easy for it to do damage;
> energy is irrelevant (an arrow or a rod pushed byhand through this
> same pather probably kills too).


The problem with all these kinds of discussions  is  that  people
often build their  (mis)conceptions  of  reality  from  anecdotal
evidence.  This is true in real world political debate too:  Some
people are afraid to fly but think  nothing  of  driving  to  the
airport (due to press coverage  given  to  plane  crashes);  many
parents now drive their kids to school to avoid abduction despite
the risk of death by car accident being far higher (for the  same
reason); etc.  An accurate RPG combat system should be  based  on
real world probabilities but  be  flexible  enough  to  throw  up
abnormal events from time to time.

As a non-expert I believe energy _is_  important  to  determining
armour  penetration  and  average  damage.   IMTU  if  armour  is
penetrated then I use a 2d roll where:

    2 = scratch,
    3-11 = normal damage
    12 = kill

Thus the average damage for a .22 may not  _normally_  be  enough
for a kill, but sometimes you do hit a vital spot (like the eye).
The question in my mind is: how abnormal are abnormal events  (is
2d enough or should it be 3d ... or more)?



Regards PLST
"Rome wasn't burned in a day."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:49:43 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Windows on Starships

Black ICE <wombat@premier.net> wrote:

<tongue-in-cheek>
>Windows on starships.  A really Bad Idea.
>Go with Unix, or maybe OS/2.  Perhaps Mac OS for civilian ships.
>But _not_ Windows.  (Can you imagine getting the Blue Screen Of Death
>just as you initiate jump?)
>
>(And keep the Java in the galley, where it belongs.)

But GDW already did that plot (Windows on Starships).


They called it the Virus Era...


</tongue-in-cheek>

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:51:01 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Real men answer . . .?]

RSpake2064@aol.com wrote:

>then i will gather up all the lawyers and kill them (well, the cute ones like
>ally mcbeal can live).

Hey, Bloo and Roderick!

Do you count as cute ones?

<g>

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1156
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, November 18 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1157



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Freeze Dried Water
UTP?
Re: [Fwd: Real men answer . . .?]
Re: Lasers and Windows etc 
Re: Just some thoughts about combat...
Re: Windows on Starships
Re: [Fwd: Real men answer . . .?]
Re: Smuggling
Re: First Contact future history
Re: .22 cal.
Re: Vargr On The Big Screen
Re: .22 cal.
Re: uplifting
Re: The Beyond
Re: Lasers and Windows etc 
Experience
Re: Windows on Starships
Geography of North America
Re: Experience
Freeze Dried Water
Harassment Insurance

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 21:00:43 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Freeze Dried Water

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:

>What makes that *really* funny is that someday I want to put together a
>IISS uniform to wear at cons. Given how out of shape I am, I figure I
>can easily get away with claiming to be an X-boat pilot. After all,
>there's no room to excercise on those things.

Andy and Sarah Lilly made some up for the BITS stand - it comprises a grey
jump suit plus webbing and a nice bb replica Robocop gun, sorry Gauss
Pistol. They did a whole set of badges based on designs in Traveller for
units eg Lift Infantry, Scouts in WBH etc.

They do have a limited number available - I'd email Andy directly if you're
after details at

bits@bits.org.uk

There will be pictures on the new BITS site... ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 18:29:44 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: UTP?

I seem to have trashed the digest with the UTP article. Could someone
please send me a copy?

Thanks.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 18:37:21 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Real men answer . . .?]

Concidering Roderick's connection with Heggibar and Ditzie, my money's on
him!

Mike Peters, Letterworks@CITnet.com
webpage:"Jump Point" http://users.citnet.com/Letterworks/
"For my part, I travel not to go anywhere, but to go. I travel for travel's
sake. The great affair is to move."
Robert Louis Stevenson

- -----Original Message-----
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 6:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Real men answer . . .?]


>RSpake2064@aol.com wrote:
>
>>then i will gather up all the lawyers and kill them (well, the cute ones
like
>>ally mcbeal can live).
>
>Hey, Bloo and Roderick!
>
>Do you count as cute ones?
>
><g>
>
>Dom
>
>------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
>"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
>that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
>You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
>'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
>MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:49:46 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Lasers and Windows etc 

At 10:59 pm 11/16/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> 	And if you have any Vargr crewmembers, they've probably been
>> pressing their noses against the glass. The resulting smudges will
>> probably cause the glass to absorb enough juice to shatter on the
the
>> first shot ... 
>
>I'dve thought they'd wanna stick their heads out the open window...

	Vacuum dries their tongues out too much ... experienced Vargr just
stick their noses and/or tongues on the window. Ever been in a car
with a Siberian husky when you've got the windows closed because the
AC is running?
- -- Dave Golden
- -- House in Colorado Springs for sale! 
- -- http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/House

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:53:10 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Just some thoughts about combat...

At 03:23 am 11/17/98 -0800, you wrote:
>At 10:53 PM 11/16/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>>Manifesto
>
>These are the standing Orders, Rodgers Rangers.  First issued in
1764 by
>Col. Rodgers for his irregular force during the French and Indian
War.
>Still used today.
>
>>Ten Commandments
>
>Issued by Richard Marchinko, founder of SEAL Team 6 and passable
novelist.

	Not to mention professional egotist ... a real hero in his own mind
...
- -- Dave Golden
- -- House in Colorado Springs for sale! 
- -- http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/House

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:59:35 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Windows on Starships

At 05:33 pm 11/17/98 -0600, you wrote:
><tongue-in-cheek>
>Windows on starships.  A really Bad Idea.
>
>Go with Unix, or maybe OS/2.  Perhaps Mac OS for civilian ships.
>
>But _not_ Windows.  (Can you imagine getting the Blue Screen Of
Death
>just as you initiate jump?)
>
>(And keep the Java in the galley, where it belongs.)
></tongue-in-cheek>

	Not so tongue in cheek: the US Navy somehow got convinced to declare
Windows NT the "standard" to be used for various onboard projects.
Then a cruiser (I believe the USS Indianapolis, but I'm not sure) got
stuck in harbor for six weeks when they tried to install it ... and
crashed the entire ship.
- -- Dave Golden
- -- House in Colorado Springs for sale! 
- -- http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/House

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:57:59 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Real men answer . . .?]

At 04:46 pm 11/17/98 -0600, you wrote:
>I figured all the gearheads on TML would get a kick out of this....
>
>Multiple choice.  You must answer truthfully:
> 
>1. Alien beings from a highly advanced society visit the earth.  You
>are the first human they have encountered and as a token of
>inter-galactic friendship they present you with a small but
>incredibly sophisticated device that is capable of curing all
>diseases, provide an infinite supply of clean energy, wipe out
>hunger, and permanently eliminate oppression and violence. What
would
>you do with it?
>
>A. Present it to the Prime Minister
>B. Present it to the Secretary General of the United Nations.
>C. Take it apart.

	The correct answer, of course, is not listed, which is "D.
Demonstrate conclusively that the device is non-canonical, and
therefore does not exist."
- -- Dave Golden
- -- House in Colorado Springs for sale! 
- -- http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/House

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:06:11 -0800 (PST)
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:44:57, Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
>>I can't speak for other but you are invisioning an universe
>>where every cargo generates a form from every world that gets
>>shipped back to the source and checked.  This alone will be
>>non-trivial in a universe where every message has to be
>>physically carried and of limited usefulness when replies
>>arrive weeks or months later.  One also has to then ask why
>>the Imperium isn't keeping similar record at the same level
>>(convictions, births, who travels where, etc.) and leaves you
>>with a picture of the Imperium that is much more centrally
>>directed and involved in details than I personally have ever
>>seen it as being.

>Every legitimate cargo, and a lot of illegitimate ones, creates paperwork,
>true. Typically a receipt from the guy you bought it off, so they can take
>their records to their accountant at the end of the year, to see if they
>made money or not. And usually a couple of entries in your ship's log.
>Often a warehousing or a stevedoring receipt too. See, businesses need to
>keep records so they can keep track of what they do.

This I have not problem with.

>The *targetted* checks are the only ones that have this information checked
>by the authorities, and I envisioned about 3% of total cargo having this
>check done

Well, if you are only talking about about a limited amount (and I
make no commitment either way about the 3% number) then it might
be reasonable.  However, that will have a limited effect on
crimes like piracy and smuggling.  Whether the effect will be
enough to justify the bother, and wether the Imperium wants to get involved
in things like checking cargoes, could be argued either way.
I must say that, as I picture the Imperium, I think their will
be an attitude that there are other ways of catching criminals
and they don't want to bother with it.

>this is low overhead
>(call it 2 hours of bureaucrat time to check, plus Cr 10 to send the form
>to the source worlds).

The cost is low for _one_ event.  If it is extensive (which it can
esp. be if you look at the policy you are proposing for one issue
and then extrapolate it to every other record of a similar importance
that might be tracked), then it  can add up.  (I've never seen
a department listed that would do this, though admittedly I've
never seen anything that claimed to be an exhaustive list of
Imperial agencies).

>As far as the canonicity of this, I'd like to remind people of the
>existance of Legal skill in Merchant Price, and the roll to pass customs
>checks on inspections.

I don't see how this addresses the question of whether records
are sent back to source worlds for verification.  Legal will be
useful either way.

>It doesnt really matter how long the check takes to do, within reasonable
>limits.

Trying to
find someone with a trail that is months old will be a tricky
matter, esp. since the rate at which you can spread the
word about them isn't much faster than they can travel
(if at all).  And all they have to do in that period of
time is shake their paper trail once.

>Needless to say, ships that seem to be running away from somewhere
>gets their ships logs checked more closely.

How do the "seem" to be running away?  It's not like we are talking
about pushing through a crowed yelling about how you need to get
away before they catch you.  The point of ID fraud, and similar
crimes, is that it isn't know that you are doing it.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:13:18 -0800 (PST)
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: First Contact future history

Wed, 18 Nov 1998 07:56:26 +0000, SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>

>When did Canada annexe the USA?

Of course there is the question of whether, after the first
election, you could tell if Canada annexed the USA or the other
way around?



______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:16:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Cook <markc@peak.org>
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

Sethkimmel@aol.com writes:

> In a message dated 11/18/98 1:34:05 AM Pacific Standard Time, semo@pil.net
> writes:
> 
> > Actually, I remember reading once that .22 caliber guns were very popular
> > among mafia executioners at one point or another. I never found out why
> > though.
> 
> They are subsonic, and thus can be supressed. They also are very neat.

*Sigh*.  Here we go again.

In addition to this post, Doug Berry previously commented on how
quiet the.22 round is.  Doug's considerable firearms experience not
withstanding, they're only "quiet" in comparison to centerfire calibers.
Also, the .22 LR (Long Rifle) cartridge, which is the most heavily
sold of all the .22 caliber variants available in the U.S. (and the
rest of the western world, for that matter) is *very* supersonic.
Check any copy of "Cartridges of the World" for verification.  They
can be supressed, either by porting the barrel (and thus reducing
some of the slug velocity), or by using a less energetic cartridge
(the .22 shot is subsonic, but terribly under-powered for this sort
of use.)

The main reason .22's are such popular assassin's weapons is that,
when shoved against the victims head or body before firing, the
body absorbs the entire report, exhaust gases and all.

In a crowd similar to a typical Manhatten workday sidewalk, you "bump"
your victim, there's a barely noticable "thump", and you walk away as
he/she falls.  By the time anyone figures out the heart attack they
just witnessed was actually a homicide, you're alreaddy one and a half
blocks away, dumping the gun in a trash can.  One more block and you've
dumped the gloves. Five minutes later and you're on the Red Line headed
for Brooklyn.

        - Mark C.
          Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy
          EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75
          Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR
          NRA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)
          Front Sight First Family member #1

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 mark f. cook * mark cook consulting *  shoestring graphics & printing
 2055 s.w. whiteside dr. * corvallis, or, 97333-1406 * markc@ssgfx.com
 Phone: 541-753-2732      Fax: 541-753-2738       http://www.ssgfx.com
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    > I believe that "decimation" originated with the Roman legions.

    Of course it originated with the Romans! Who else would _need_
    a word that means "kill every tenth person"?  - Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:18:42 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Vargr On The Big Screen

"Smart, David J (David)" wrote:
> 
> Folks, I just downloaded and viewed the trailer for the
> next Star Wars movie. Although it's a very small Quicktime
> display, I'd *swear* one of the computer-generated
> characters is a Vargr! Bipedal, two-armed with a
> dog's head, natural movement...one incredible rendering!
> 

One of them is the dragon-eared character from that old 'Dragon' comic
strip...which name escapes me now...

Awesome!! I only saw it silent, since I don't have a sound card in my PC
at work.

(but I do have a real 10mbit ethernet connection...so I got the 25mb
large version. Nyaa nyaa. :-P

Now I want to see the whole movie RIGHT NOW!!! WAAAAAH! Anyone got a low
berth handy? ;-)

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 19:19:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

Why is this not gratuitous? 

<G>

No, seriously!

<G>

On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, Eris reddoch wrote:

> dberry@hooked.net wrote:
> 
> > There was an LAPD officer who was hit in the foot by a .22 round, went into
> > shock, and died before aid could arrive.  I use that story along with the
> > guy who survived a point-blank .45 round to the head to illustrate the
> > difficulty in accurately modeling gunshot wounds.
> 
> That's quite true, Doug.  A .22 round that kills outright, or even
> delivers a mortal wound, should be a rare, but possible occurrance,
> and a .45, point blank to the head, that doesn't kill or mortally
> wound should be equally rare.  Not to get into specific systems, and
> without getting too complicated I think it *can* be modeled.
> 
> Task to shoot someone with a gun.
>   Difficulty based on Range. Appropriate Asset (Skill+Attribute...or
> whatever).
>   Shot to Head or body, doubles damage.
> 
> Results:
> Marginal success (perhaps, they made it by the exact roll required)
> results in a "graze" causing very minor injury (a scratch, perhaps
> only 1 point) regardless of the damage roll.
> 			
> Critical success (however the specific system does it) results in a
> doubling of any damage rolled. (A shot to the head or body would
> result in x4 damage!)
> 
> Success results in a normal damage roll.
> 
> Failure results in a miss.
> 
> Critical Failure (however the specific system does it) results in a
> miss plus the chance of damage to friendly parties, a weapon
> jam/misfire/explosion, or other outcome dangerous or damaging to the
> firer.
> 
> A .22, perhaps, only does 1d6 points of damage, but if it is
> successfully fired into the target's body or head it may do as many as
> 12 points, and if a critical success was achieved on the "to hit" task
> as many as 24 points. That should be enough to put any unarmored
> humanoid in mortal danger.
> 
> A .45, perhaps, does 2d6+1 points of damage, but if the success is
> only marginal then the target recieves minor damage regardless of the
> roll (perhaps only 1 point). On the other hand, a normal success would
> result in an average of 8 points damage (avg: 16, max: 26 to body or
> head) and a critical success to the body or head could inflict as many
> as 52 points (on average 32 points)...either of which should be enough
> to drop a cow! ;->
> 
> This is part of the combat system that I'm slowly putting together.
> 
> Eris
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 18:43:01 -0600
From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
Subject: Re: uplifting

Bruce Johnson wrote:

>Imaginactra wrote:
>>
>> Wonder, though, how the Imperium react to finding a planet of Cro -
Magnon
>> or the like. Would the regard them as human or ape?
>
>Human...If a Cro-Magnon walked up to you on the street and said hello,
>well, you'd just say hello back. Cro-Magnon is not a subspecies
>designation but an archaeological/cultural one, they were H. Sapiens
>sapiens just like us. On the average they were a bit bigger than us,
but
>all the evidence indicates that was because they lived a healthy
outdoor
>life _and_ had abundant food sources....Most modern descriptions of
>Neandertals indicate, with a shave, haircut and a suit, you'ld hardly
>take a second glance at them, either.

I saw a show a few weeks ago that had an archiologist that said
Neandertals were a different species.  To be fair they had another
archiologist that said they were a different race (i.e. caucasion,
oriental, negro, neandertal)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 19:05:34 -0600
From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Beyond

Leo Hale wrote:

>Where exactly is this sector located?

one sector rimward and one sector spinward of the Spinward Marches

>Do you have a map for it?

copyright 1981 by Paranoia Press, Inc.  Current owner Chuck Kallenbach
II ???

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:06:17 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Lasers and Windows etc 

> At 10:59 pm 11/16/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >> 	And if you have any Vargr crewmembers, they've probably been
> >> pressing their noses against the glass. The resulting smudges will
> >> probably cause the glass to absorb enough juice to shatter on the
> the
> >> first shot ... 
> >
> >I'dve thought they'd wanna stick their heads out the open window...
> 
> 	Vacuum dries their tongues out too much ... experienced Vargr just
> stick their noses and/or tongues on the window. Ever been in a car
> with a Siberian husky when you've got the windows closed because the
> AC is running?

Yup.  I was owned by a purebred Malamute named Czarina once.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 19:11:24 -0600
From: Andrew Akins <igor@truserve.com>
Subject: Experience

As I'm experiencing fatherhood, I noticed that my new daughter has
obviously earned experience, as she has improved her crying-3 to at least
crying-5.

Which make me think about experience in Traveller. CT had very little in
the way of an experience - in fact, that was one of the reasons I often had
trouble finding players - they complained that their characters never improved.

Later systems did better.

I'm curious what people think about this - particularly Marc, as he's
working on T5. I never had a big problem with it - character's gained
money, items, renown, etc...but what do people think?


+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                        |
| Home: igor@truserve.com - www.truserve.com/~igor/ - AIM: Iowa Akins |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/ - AIM: CMS AndyA    |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU: tc++(**) ru+ ge 3i+ jt- au+ ls+ kk+ hi+ as+ va+ dr+ so+ zh+   |
|       vi+ da+                                                       |
| Geek: GCS d- s+:+ a- C++ W++ w+++(-)$ PS+ PE t- 5++ X+ R+++ tv+     |
|       b+++ DI+ D-- G e+ h---- r+++ y++++                            |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 19:33:54 -0600
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net>
Subject: Re: Windows on Starships

At 05:59 PM 11/18/98 , Dave Golden wrote:
>At 05:33 pm 11/17/98 -0600, you wrote:
>><tongue-in-cheek>
>>Windows on starships.  A really Bad Idea.
>>
>>Go with Unix, or maybe OS/2.  Perhaps Mac OS for civilian ships.
>>
>>But _not_ Windows.  (Can you imagine getting the Blue Screen Of
>Death
>>just as you initiate jump?)
>>
>>(And keep the Java in the galley, where it belongs.)
>></tongue-in-cheek>
>
>	Not so tongue in cheek: the US Navy somehow got convinced to declare
>Windows NT the "standard" to be used for various onboard projects.
>Then a cruiser (I believe the USS Indianapolis, but I'm not sure) got
>stuck in harbor for six weeks when they tried to install it ... and
>crashed the entire ship.

Dave,

Maybe it was not Windows NT fault entirely maybe it had some onboard
assistance from some *bored* sailors.<G>

Windows NT is DOD level three compliant according to co worker who in his
own words "worked for many 3 lettered Government agencies over time".<G>

Windows NT was not the main culprit is was the *Brain Trust* that was
responsible implementing the concept, with the USN Gold Braided REMF's
assistance, with a few Sand Crabs thrown in for good measure.

Sinbad Sam
Sinbad Sam
"Black Curtain" Rod Holder...
AI Virus inferior races(Aslan, Humaniti, Kkree, Droyne) Interfacer
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
sinbad@ignore.hex.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:49:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com>
Subject: Geography of North America

From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>

Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil> wrote:

>Interesting story of 2 countries in North America.  That should cause
plenty of divergence from
>present reality plain enough.....

I was always under the impression there are two countries in North
America already. When did Canada annexe the USA?

******************************************
No, I distinctly remember seeing three countries in North America,
even after NAFTA (assuming that Central America starts at Mexico's
southern border; if we're counting the continent as starting at
Colombia, then we have a whole bunch more than two countries).
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:50:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Camino <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Experience

Andy Wrote:
: Which make me think about experience in Traveller.
: CT had very little in the way of an experience -
: in fact, that was one of the reasons I often had
: trouble finding players - they complained that 
: their characters neverimproved.
: Later systems did better. I'm curious what people 
: think about this - particularly Marc, as he's
: working on T5. I never had a big problem with 
: it - character's gained money, items, renown, etc
: ...but what do people think?<p>
=======================<p>

Classic Traveller was unique in it's time in that characters started out experienced.  I liked the system because of how it allowed us to begin doing important stuff right away (instead of running through boring early levels to build a character), plus it allowed players to join at any point with a new character (or to bring in a replacement for a dead one).  The system does allow for training, but, no, you don't really learn by doing (other than getting a zero skill once you are familiar with something).

Perhaps characters could be allowed to change over the years.  As is true of most of us after 30 or so, it is hard to pick up new "skills" or "training" without losing effectiveness at those we have previously developed.  Our experience, however, allows us to continue getting better at "interaction";  Admin, Leader, Tactics, Forgery, Streetwise, etc. may continue to improve for many years after our H-to-H Combat, Blade or Vehicle skills have begun to lose their edge.  This is partly compensated for by reduction in the physical characteristics to aging(losing positive or gaining negative DMs), but there is something lacking in the "becoming an old sage" department.  <b>Perhaps there could be a new non-physical skill roll allowed every fourth year, so that as we fail our aging rolls we can be gaining some experience?</b>

<p>

<br>------------------------><>------------------------
IMTU 0601 tc++ tm !tn t4+ ?tg ru++ 3i pi ta+ he+ 
http://come.to/traveller

You might be a Traveller fanatic if... your resume includes a UPP and skill listing!

<hr size=1><b>DO YOU YAHOO!?</b><br>Get your free @yahoo.com address at <a href="http://mail.yahoo.com">Yahoo! Mail</a>.<br>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:56:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com>
Subject: Freeze Dried Water

From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)

What makes that *really* funny is that someday I want to put together
a IISS uniform to wear at cons. Given how out of shape I am, I figure
I can easily get away with claiming to be an X-boat pilot. After all,
there's no room to excercise on those things.

****************************************
On a recent trip to Boston, I found a company that makes custom,
one-off baseball caps, for not a bad price (about $20, but it depends
on how much embroidery you want them to do).  I'm trying to decide
what I want before trying to design it -- ISS Azhanti High Lightning? 
Imperial Grand Survey?  The Duke of Regina's Own Huscarles? 
decisions, decisions

It's called Custom Caps.  www.capsonline.com is under construction. 
(800) 498-9421.

- --Glenn
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:10:17
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Harassment Insurance

I'm thinking about paperwork, customs and opportunities for blackmail,
harassment and so on.

The first obvious thing that comes to mind is for our intrepid Free Trader
captain to insure against it by putting some sort of larger orginisation on
a retainer. I can imagine a firm of lawyers having an office at many of the
worlds in a subsector, and our Free Trader slinging them, say, Cr 2500 a
month in order to have local legal support as and when needed.

In G:T terms this would be a Contact or an Ally Group.

The second obvious thing is to join the TAS. One of their traditional roles
is to provide liaison with local authorities. Of course, if you *are* a
smuggler, and hiding behind the defenses of the TAS, then TAS may well get
upset with you.

Now, all this will cost, but it's better than facing the nightmare alone ...

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1157
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, November 19 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1158



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: NightHawk G:T fighter
Re: Windows on Starships
Re: Smuggling
Re: The Beyond
Re: Rail Guns
Re: .22 cal.
Re: .22 cal.
re: Windows on Starships
Re: .22 cal.
Re: uplifting
Re: Experience
Re: Experience
Re: Geography of North America
Re: Windows on Starships
Re: Geography of North America
Re: Harassment Insurance
Re: NightHawk G:T fighter
Re: Vargr On The Big Screen
Re: Smuggling
Re: First Contact future history
Re: [Fwd: Real men answer . . .?]
Re: [Fwd: Real men answer . . .?]
Re: Geography of North America
Re: NightHawk G:T fighter
Re: .22 cal.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:22:12
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: NightHawk G:T fighter

>From: "N. Eric Phillips" <stilleon@io.com>
>Subject: NightHawk Fighter (TL 12)

>
>NIGHTHAWK FIGHTER (TL 12)
>
>Crew: Pilot and Gunner
>
>10-ton SL hull, DR 125 (laminate armor), Turret, 3 missile racks, Cockpit
>bridge, 6 M-Drive, Radical stealth and emissions
>
>Statistics: Mass 74.1, Cost 12.22, HP Hull 3000, Hull Size Mod +6
>Performance: Accel 8.09G, Airspeed 4,009
>
>(Note: Laminate armor is listed in Vehicles 2 ed. It has its DR doubled vs.
>HEAT warheads, like those in SIM 10 and SIM 12 missiles.)

With regard to the laminate armour, if the other side are shooting missiles
at you, then I'd say your mission has failed.

I really dont like the idea of a fighter with only missiles, and no
secondary armament. In effect, you are paying MCr 4 per missile in the salvo.

I'd think strongly about taking it up to 12 dtons, and adding a fixed TL12
laser and another m-drive unit.

Finally, has anyone looked into building a combustion laser or other
distant-effect missile warhead in Gurps ?

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:22:48 -0600
From: Andrew Akins <igor@truserve.com>
Subject: Re: Windows on Starships

>Windows NT was not the main culprit is was the *Brain Trust* that was
>responsible implementing the concept, with the USN Gold Braided REMF's
>assistance, with a few Sand Crabs thrown in for good measure.

At the risk of getting way off topic...

I have never used an operating system that caused me more headaches and
swearing than Windows NT. Period. I am a professional computer programmer
by trade. I'd like to think I know what I'm doing (been doing it for 10
years). The systems experts in our office are all MCSE (Microsoft Certified
System Engineer). And yet nothing in my office give me more trouble than
this "flawless, crashproof" system.

I've used (and am using) Windows NT Workstation, Windows NT Server, Windows
95, Windows 98, Mac OS, Linux, SCO, BeOS, HPUX, and Solaris. In my mind,
Windows NT follows dead last. Big, bloated, slow, and not reliable (in my
experience), I'll stick with my Windows 98.

I now return you to more appropriate Traveller material...


+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                        |
| Home: igor@truserve.com - www.truserve.com/~igor/ - AIM: Iowa Akins |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/ - AIM: CMS AndyA    |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU: tc++(**) ru+ ge 3i+ jt- au+ ls+ kk+ hi+ as+ va+ dr+ so+ zh+   |
|       vi+ da+                                                       |
| Geek: GCS d- s+:+ a- C++ W++ w+++(-)$ PS+ PE t- 5++ X+ R+++ tv+     |
|       b+++ DI+ D-- G e+ h---- r+++ y++++                            |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:49:39
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

A
>From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
>Subject: Re: Smuggling
>
>>The *targetted* checks are the only ones that have this information checked
>>by the authorities, and I envisioned about 3% of total cargo having this
>>check done
>
>Well, if you are only talking about about a limited amount (and I
>make no commitment either way about the 3% number) then it might
>be reasonable.  However, that will have a limited effect on
>crimes like piracy and smuggling.  Whether the effect will be
>enough to justify the bother, and wether the Imperium wants to get involved
>in things like checking cargoes, could be argued either way.
>I must say that, as I picture the Imperium, I think their will
>be an attitude that there are other ways of catching criminals
>and they don't want to bother with it.
>

Each check has a limited effect. But they add up, leaving a smuggler with
the task of fighting against the probabilities.

You also get to work backwards if you do crack a corrupt broker, by
subjecting their other customers to a higher level of checking.

By the way, David, what do you think the Imperium would do to try and catch
pirates and smugglers ?

>>this is low overhead
>>(call it 2 hours of bureaucrat time to check, plus Cr 10 to send the form
>>to the source worlds).
>
>The cost is low for _one_ event.  If it is extensive (which it can
>esp. be if you look at the policy you are proposing for one issue
>and then extrapolate it to every other record of a similar importance
>that might be tracked), then it  can add up.  (I've never seen
>a department listed that would do this, though admittedly I've
>never seen anything that claimed to be an exhaustive list of
>Imperial agencies).
>

I can think of lots who could do this (IN, IISS, MinCommerce, local
governments). Who would do it will vary from time to time, and I think from
place to place.

Basically, the check will cost fractions of a percent of the cost of the
cargo being carried. And if we have a staff, then they can do it wholesale.

>>As far as the canonicity of this, I'd like to remind people of the
>>existance of Legal skill in Merchant Price, and the roll to pass customs
>>checks on inspections.
>
>I don't see how this addresses the question of whether records
>are sent back to source worlds for verification.  Legal will be
>useful either way.
>

If you cannot verify the truth or otherwise of a record, then why in hells
name would you bother to check it ?

>>It doesnt really matter how long the check takes to do, within reasonable
>>limits.
>
>Trying to
>find someone with a trail that is months old will be a tricky
>matter, esp. since the rate at which you can spread the
>word about them isn't much faster than they can travel
>(if at all).  And all they have to do in that period of
>time is shake their paper trail once.

Most commercial shipping with go at jump-3 or -4, tops. This is slower than
news ships will go (news is the most value-dense of all cargos). Most
commercial shipping will also stick to some sort of operating area or
route, because gaining local knowledge is costly.

You have a basic description of the ship (400t, jump-3, maneauver-2, power
plant 390 MW output), the captain and so on.

>
>>Needless to say, ships that seem to be running away from somewhere
>>gets their ships logs checked more closely.
>
>How do the "seem" to be running away?  It's not like we are talking
>about pushing through a crowed yelling about how you need to get
>away before they catch you.  The point of ID fraud, and similar
>crimes, is that it isn't know that you are doing it.

Oh, I'd say a ships log that indicates that they are moving away from, say,
Mora at an average of jump-3 would do it. So would a complete lack of
references to the ship in subsector's commercial shipping registers.


Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 21:52:48 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: The Beyond

This info is on Jim's V's excellent Galactic v2.4.  W/ it's neighboring
sector, Vanguard Reaches.   Some of it's more than a little cheesy, though...
just look at the astrography...  Some of it is pretty good, too, though.


Gary

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:05:50 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Rail Guns

In mail you write:

> At 21:39 15/11/98 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>>
>><Talking about David Weber's "Honor Harrington" series>
>>
>>> The thing that most struck me with his tech was how the wedges stopped
>>> focused energy attacks like lasers by distorting them so they had no
>>> penetration, which AFAIK might work, and somehow that still works on the
>>> X-Ray pulse from a nuke, which is most certainly not coherent or focused.
>>
>>Whoa! The X-ray warheads are nuclear pumped X-ray *lasers*. They *are*
>>coherent, and the range is short enough to ignore focusing. 
>
> I'm pretty sure that some warhead are contact (or near contact) nukes.

Sure, *some* are. And he makes a point of noting that they are next to
useless unless you get lucky.

> I
> just thought of something else - how about just running a powered missile
> into the target? Missiles can't power up until they're out of the launching
> ships wedge for fear of wrecking the ship, and surely the target ship would
> be equally vulnerable.

The ship's wedge is *much* stronger than the missile's. So the missile
will get shredded before it can damage the ship.

> About the mass driver launch system - why not just dump the missiles out
> the back of the ship? In _Honor Amoung Enemies_ Honor's Q-ships do this
> with missile pods, so why can't a smaller ship do this with normal missiles?

Easy. If you just drop them out the back, you have just limited their
initial course tracks by quite a bit. Also, there's only so much space
to drop them from. There's a lot more space for launchers along the
sides of the ship.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:12:59 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

In a message dated 11/18/98 4:10:05 PM Central Standard Time,
Sethkimmel@aol.com writes:

<< 
 They are subsonic, and thus can be supressed. They also are very neat. You
 shoot someone in the head at point blank range, and there is usually no exit
 wound, and the entrance wound doesn't bleed much.
  >>

There was a recent news item (Chicago, IIRC) that someone was killed with a
.22 and the shot was silenced with a potato.

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:15:24 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

In a message dated 11/18/98 4:25:36 PM Central Standard Time, eris@gulf.net
writes:

<< A .22, perhaps, only does 1d6 points of damage, but if it is >>

Which is why, in T5, I want wounding to be the stated number of dice damage
(1D, 2D etc) but always modified by +D-D. Using +D-DF on average does not
alter the result, but conceivably can add up to +5 or reduce up to -5.

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:18:01 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: re: Windows on Starships

David J. Golden wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Windows NT the "standard" to be used for various onboard projects.
Then a cruiser (I believe the USS Indianapolis, but I'm not sure) got
stuck in harbor for six weeks when they tried to install it ... and
crashed the entire ship.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I really, *really* hope you meant, "crashed all the computer systems
on the ship".
Image of the Indianapolis wrapped around some pilings due to
a software bug... <G>

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:17:43 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

In a message dated 11/18/98 6:18:16 PM Central Standard Time, markc@peak.org
writes:

<<  Five minutes later and you're on the Red Line headed
 for Brooklyn. >>

Maybe we should post a police detail in Brooklyn and just arrest anyone
getting off there?

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 19:22:12 +0000
From: edjs@bitslayer.net
Subject: Re: uplifting

> Date:          Mon, 16 Nov 1998 18:14:53 -0800
> From:          Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
> on these guys).
> 
> Who else, in 'canon' lit, have been uplifted?  Memory says chimps (maybe
> Bonobos included), but I'm not sure.

DGP's Solomani & Aslan included some history about the 'Gene War', which 
invloved primates geneered for zero-g work.  The primates ('Orangs' and 
'Gibbons', Simians collectively) were secretly uplifted to full sentience as 
part of a project to create 'supermen' (and a nasty witch hunt/war against the 
supermen resulted).  The Simians are still around.


- --
Edward Swatschek
edjs@bitslayer.net - edjs@mindlink.net - ICQ 2684960
http://home.paralynx.com/edjs/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:28:52 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Experience

In a message dated 11/18/98 7:15:53 PM Central Standard Time,
igor@truserve.com writes:

<< 
 I'm curious what people think about this - particularly Marc, as he's
 working on T5. I never had a big problem with it - character's gained
 money, items, renown, etc...but what do people think? >>

As Traveller evolved (in original CT, characters got basically one skill per
term), we have moved toward 1 skill per year as a defacto standard. People
want to improve in skills and its hard to stand against that desire. 

Anyway, I think a good experience rule is important, and I think T5 will have
a good one. Draft text below.

EXPERIENCE
	The completion of the character generation process does not end the
accumulation of skills. Characters receive one skill level every year.
	Experience Points (EP). An experience point is expressed as a skill and a
point (such as Pistol-1*). It is followed by an asterisk to distinguish it
from a skill level.
	Procedure. At the end of every game session, the game master awards EPs.
After evaluating the game activities, the game master awards one EP to each
character, based on the skill which was best or most effectively used by the
character during that session. Each player records the EP for his or her
character.
	On the character’s birthday, EPs are examined. The EP with the highest level
of usage is converted to one level of skill and awarded to the character. All
other Experience Points are lost.
	Aging Bonus. In addition to normal experience skill increases, each time the
character consults the aging table (on his or her birthday), the character may
receive one level of skill in any skill listed on a Life Pursuit card
(alternatively, the second highest level of Experience Points is converted to
a skill level for the character).
	Restrictions. Because Experience Points can only be awarded in terms of
skills actually used, they can only be awarded in skills already held by the
character, or in default skills. The only ways of acquiring non-default skills
not already held by a character is through education (through formal education
or instruction by another character), or from an Aspiring Life Pursuit.. 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:35:22 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Experience

In a message dated 11/18/98 7:51:55 PM Central Standard Time,
swordworlder@yahoo.com writes:

<< Perhaps there could be a new non-physical skill roll allowed every fourth
year, so that as we fail our aging rolls we can be gaining some experience?
  >>

See my post on Experience. It's sort of like this.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:34:18 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Geography of North America

In a message dated 11/18/98 7:48:16 PM Central Standard Time,
gmgoffin@yahoo.com writes:

<< No, I distinctly remember seeing three countries in North America,
 even after NAFTA (assuming that Central America starts at Mexico's
 southern border; if we're counting the continent as starting at
 Colombia, then we have a whole bunch more than two countries). >>

Then again, Mexico likes for United Statesians (as the sometimes call us) to
say we're Norteamericanos to distinguish ourselves from Americanos (which
Mexicans consider themselves). So the Central American border starts at the US
southern border under this interpretation. 

And BTW, doesn't France have two little tiny possession islands just off the
Canadian Atalntic coast (Miguelite and Piqueron, or something like that?).

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:17:03 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Windows on Starships

David J. Golden wrote:
> 
> At 05:33 pm 11/17/98 -0600, you wrote:
> ><tongue-in-cheek>
> >Windows on starships.  A really Bad Idea.
> >
> >Go with Unix, or maybe OS/2.  Perhaps Mac OS for civilian ships.
> >
> >But _not_ Windows.  (Can you imagine getting the Blue Screen Of Death
> >just as you initiate jump?)
> >
> >(And keep the Java in the galley, where it belongs.)
> ></tongue-in-cheek>
> 
>         Not so tongue in cheek: the US Navy somehow got convinced to declare
> Windows NT the "standard" to be used for various onboard projects.
> Then a cruiser (I believe the USS Indianapolis, but I'm not sure) got
> stuck in harbor for six weeks when they tried to install it ... and
> crashed the entire ship.

From what I recall of postings on this subject in the sci.military.naval
Usenet newsgroup, it was USS YORKTOWN, an Aegis cruiser.  (I'm sure that
Matt Clonfero will correct me if I'm wrong....)

> -- Dave Golden
> -- House in Colorado Springs for sale!
> -- http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/House

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:20:32 -0800
From: "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@home.com>
Subject: Re: Geography of North America

>
>And BTW, doesn't France have two little tiny possession islands just off
the
>Canadian Atalntic coast (Miguelite and Piqueron, or something like that?).
>
>Marc Miller
>
Yep and they are a smugglers dream come true

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:22:02 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Harassment Insurance

Ian or Katts wrote:
> 
> I'm thinking about paperwork, customs and opportunities for blackmail,
> harassment and so on.
> 
> The first obvious thing that comes to mind is for our intrepid Free Trader
> captain to insure against it by putting some sort of larger orginisation on
> a retainer. I can imagine a firm of lawyers having an office at many of the
> worlds in a subsector, and our Free Trader slinging them, say, Cr 2500 a
> month in order to have local legal support as and when needed.
> 

Might I recommend the services of the law firm of Dewey, Cheatham, and
Howe?  This prestigious Spinward Marches law firm provides my Noble
character with _excellent_ (and hideously expensive) legal
representation.

<<snip>>

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 00:42:39 EST
From: CPsyop@aol.com
Subject: Re: NightHawk G:T fighter

In a message dated 11/18/98 6:24:51 PM Pacific Standard Time, ianw@orac.net.au
writes:
<SNIP SNIP>


> Finally, has anyone looked into building a combustion laser or other
>  distant-effect missile warhead in Gurps ?
>  
>  Ian Whitchurch

If you are referring to det-lasers you can find some GURPS Vehicles expansion
rules at (http://www.io.com/GURPSnet/Archive/Vehicles/Construction/V2ad/).  If
instead you are referring to chemical cartridge lasers my own solution to that
was to build the laser with non-rechargeable power cells, one cell/cartridge
per shot/burst.

Chris Ruhl
SGT USAR
301st PSYOP Company (Airborne)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 23:11:35 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Vargr On The Big Screen

...
>One of them is the dragon-eared character from that old 'Dragon' comic
>strip...which name escapes me now...

  Wormy?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 23:12:29 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Smuggling

>From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
...
>>The name's Rust - Mathias Rust..."
...
>You are aware that whole shebang was set up by a number of middle-ranking
>officers in Air Defense who figured they needed some vacancies in command
>positions ?

  I hadn't heard that, but I could believe it.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 23:15:21 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: First Contact future history

...
>>When did Canada annexe the USA?
>
>Of course there is the question of whether, after the first
>election, you could tell if Canada annexed the USA or the other
>way around?

  Yep - if the US annexed Canada and then allowed genuine elections,
you'd have self-avowed socialists in Congress - and probably three
or four more parties than you're used to.

  OC, Canada couldn't allow elections in any ex-US provinces until
we'd been able to brainwash the youth for a generation; Clinton's
a bit too right wing for many of us :)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 01:25:57 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Real men answer . . .?]

SD Mooney wrote:

> RSpake2064@aol.com wrote:
>
> >then i will gather up all the lawyers and kill them (well, the cute ones like
> >ally mcbeal can live).
>
> Hey, Bloo and Roderick!
>
> Do you count as cute ones?
>
> <g>

So I've been told by some straight women and gay men.
But strictly in a Bob Hoskins sort of way.

:-)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 01:25:39 EST
From: RSpake2064@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Real men answer . . .?]

In a message dated 98-11-19 01:23:27 EST, you write:

<< SD Mooney wrote:
 
 > RSpake2064@aol.com wrote:
 >
 > >then i will gather up all the lawyers and kill them (well, the cute ones
like
 > >ally mcbeal can live).
 >
 > Hey, Bloo and Roderick!
 >
 > Do you count as cute ones?
 >
 > <g>
 
 So I've been told by some straight women and gay men.
 But strictly in a Bob Hoskins sort of way.
 
 :-)
 
 Bloo >>

hum....  ok the Bob Hoskins look alikes can live too....  (and any other
lawyers who slip me enough soft money to make me look the other way)...   :-)

richard

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 01:33:29 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Geography of North America

CardSharks@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 11/18/98 7:48:16 PM Central Standard Time,
> gmgoffin@yahoo.com writes:
>
> << No, I distinctly remember seeing three countries in North America,
>  even after NAFTA (assuming that Central America starts at Mexico's
>  southern border; if we're counting the continent as starting at
>  Colombia, then we have a whole bunch more than two countries). >>
>
> Then again, Mexico likes for United Statesians (as the sometimes call us)

Say what?  In all my life growing up in Texas, I have never ever
heard such a thing.  And I've known many Mexicans.  In my experience,
you've got:
- -Mexicans,
- - Texicans,
- - Gringos, and
- - Norteamericanos.
(And there is some Black Irish in there too).

> to
> say we're Norteamericanos to distinguish ourselves from Americanos (which
> Mexicans consider themselves). So the Central American border starts at the US
> southern border under this interpretation.
>
> And BTW, doesn't France have two little tiny possession islands just off the
> Canadian Atalntic coast (Miguelite and Piqueron, or something like that?).

And don't forget Denmark's Greenland.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 01:41:41 -0500
From: "N. Eric Phillips" <stilleon@io.com>
Subject: Re: NightHawk G:T fighter

>>(Note: Laminate armor is listed in Vehicles 2 ed. It has its DR doubled
vs.
>>HEAT warheads, like those in SIM 10 and SIM 12 missiles.)
>
>With regard to the laminate armour, if the other side are shooting missiles
>at you, then I'd say your mission has failed.
>
Two reasons I chose laminate- 1- just in case they are seen and 2- its
lighter. Here's my thought.

If I'm running a game I want the realization of military overspending and
thought. Laminate armor costs more but- hell- we got the government coffers
open. Let's spend it. Cutting costs doesn't belong in a realistic military
simulation. Keeping the price down is for the civilians- only they care
about it. So, whats a few MCr's for a few tenths of a G accel.

See, in my game the military overspends and things in rigid ways. If you
like, switch to regular armor but go to the expensive stuff.

As for missiles only- get the hell out! Here's the tactic: when you see the
enemy hit by surprise and take damage scramble squadrons of Ramparts and
finish them off!

But I think you are right- screw the laminate.

NightHawk Revised

Crew: Pilot and Gunner

10-ton SL Hull, DR 125, Turret, 3 Missile Racks, Cockpit Bridge, 6 M-Drive,
Radical Stealth and Emissions Cloaking

Statistics: Mass 78.9, Cost MCr 8.7, HP Hull 3000, Hull Size Mod +6

Performance: Accel 7.6, Airspeed 4,009

- -Stilleon

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 23:41:46 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

>From: "Peter L.S. Trevor" <ptrevor.trisen@zetnet.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: .22 cal.
...
>    2 = scratch,
>    3-11 = normal damage
>    12 = kill
>
>Thus the average damage for a .22 may not  _normally_  be  enough
>for a kill, but sometimes you do hit a vital spot (like the eye).
>The question in my mind is: how abnormal are abnormal events  (is
>2d enough or should it be 3d ... or more)?

  Now there's a system simple enough for a munchkin to understand - although
they may misread it as "must wear armour immune to man-portable weapons". In
CT, having the "12" read as double damage still makes for a real effect - the
worst you could do with even a pathetic (2D) round would be a third of the
average targets hit points.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1158
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, November 19 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1159



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Variant wounding systems?
Re: Smuggling
Re: Geography of North America
Re: T5
Shivva Bridge / Fighters / Jump Drives
Re: Shiiva Deckplans
Re combat systems [rant warning]
Military Buffs
Re: Geography of North America
Re: Shiiva Deckplans
Re: mostly G:T
Re: First Contact future history
Re: Vargr On The Big Screen
Re: Experience
Re: Experience
Re: Vargr On The Big Screen
Re: First Contact future history
Re: First Contact future history
Solomani Generals (humour?)
Re: Smuggling
Re: Vargr On The Big Screen

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 23:41:57 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Variant wounding systems?

>From: "Bob Sanders" <bsanders@amghome.com>
>Subject: Re: .22 cal.
>
>IMTU .22's can kill...  and nothing creates the fear in combat  better then
>having a PC KIA with a small hand gun. I have a home system that uses a hit
>location chart with additional damage by location and bleeding rules.

  I'm trying to decide whether to run under GURPS: Traveller, MT, or CT rules.
For CT I used to use Striker modified by a relevant JTAS article for partially
penetrating hits; if I don't use G:T or MT I'll probably use a chart giving
a -1D damage modifier for most of the extremities (per DA:6), and a +1D for the
head and possibly for part of the thorax. In either case, criticals will
basically
do double damage, so a basic CT SA round could easily do 4-8 D (3+1, doubled?)
on a head hit. <splat!>

  Even a munchkin could start to evolve after a few of those...

  What sort of location/bleeding rules did you devise?

>From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
>Subject: direct hit with FGMP
...
>In my last sesssion two PCs were killed by direct hits by FGMP-15s. I'm curious
>how you managed to let one survive such an attack, given that weapon's damage.

  Well, it's a reasonable GM fiat if the hit was to a limb, and the rest of
the target was covered by cloth or so (MP hi-energy weapon bursts have a fairly
low Penetration under Striker/AHL, IIRC).

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 01:43:47 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

Ian Whitchurch wrote:

>>Once Imperial Customs (Were did THAT office
>>come from?) and the IN get involved in trying to stop fencing
>>and smuggling,  "nothing without proper paperwork", they have a
>>MUCH larger beast to deal with.

>Take your pick between Ministry of Commerce, Imperial Navy, or
>the 5 different IISS branches involved in Intelligence.

The IN has other things to do than play customs inspector. Their
principal business is killing armed spaceborne enemies of the
Imperium. The intelligence agencies have intelligence to gather.

>Basically, you require goods to have paperwork to hit piracy
>from the 'back end'. You do targetted compliance on, say, 2% of
>cargos, plus another 1% at random.

Checking every thirtieth trader to see if he's trying to make a
dishonest credit? The mind boggles. If it's information and not
enforcement you want, you can do random sampling a lot less less
intrusively. 

>You check the actual cargo against the manifest:

Not without an army of inspectors, and not until the goods are offloaded,
you don't.  Going into a ship's cargo hold and cracking open stowed and
sealed containers to find out if they really contain what they say they do
is a good way to make honest merchants hate you.

>copy the manifest, then batch it up and send the batched
>manifests back to the source worlds. They cross check it against
>outgoing cargos declared, and a form letter to who the manifest
>says you bought it off. If anything doesnt match, then the ship
>goes onto the watch list.

Add at least two weeks per jump, for round-trip information flow.
(request plus reply). By the time you compile and get the
information to your neighbors, it's already a month old or more.
Then consider the rate of clerical errors, and their effect on
false alarms. You have a choice of delayed and untrustworthy, or
reliable but hopelessly outdated.

>>multiply that by a few thousand goods and a few thousand
>>worlds, and the Imperium starts needing a substantial
>>bureacracy if it wants to regulate internal trade.

>The Imperium doesnt want to regulate internal trade. It just
>wants to know what is going on. What local worlds want to do is
>the responsibility of them, at the gates of the Extrality Fence.

Control of fencing (of pirated goods) and smuggling is a form of
regulation.
 

 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 00:44:14 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Geography of North America

At 10:34 PM 18/11/98 EST, you wrote:

>And BTW, doesn't France have two little tiny possession islands just off the
>Canadian Atalntic coast (Miguelite and Piqueron, or something like that?).
>
>Marc Miller
>

        Hi, Marc.  "Saint Pierre and Miqueilon (sp)"....  Very postage-stamp
sized areas.  However, very popular tourist spot, particularly for us Canadians.
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 01:56:32 -0500
From: Martyn Wheeler <pixie@interpath.com>
Subject: Re: T5

Some time ago (I'm trying to catch up on the TML in between working on
getting my campaign background onto the web, which since it's about to
go active again, is a higher priority than email) Marc Miller describes
the vision of the ruleset I will undoubtedly be using when it comes out,
including:

> The rules structure will support all milieux, although it will provide
> examples and details for one milieu (probably M:0, and probably set in the
> Antares sector).
>


My biggest beef with T4 is that it supposedly does this, but most of the
technical information stops well below the tech level in my campaign.
For those of us running un-shattered Imperium campaigns, we're
constantly using TL-15, and pushing TL-16 in places.  I have a small
shipyard in Foreven that's pushing out (albeit *very* slowly) TL-16/17
transition warships.

I've used TL-17 components in some ships under MT, but the advantages to
using a TL-17 jump drive with TL-16 power plant (i.e. no anti-matter,
but *much* smaller and more efficient jump drive) vanish in T4.
Suddenly I can't fit the drives in the ship anymore.  TL-17?  Apparently
in T4, anyone who has enough of an understanding to use anti-matter
power plants can't use the associated technology to improve their jump
drives...?  "I don't think so, Tim..." (a US TV sitcom catchphrase)

Also, how come 2000Mw of power generation takes the same crew at TL-18
as it does at TL-12 (crew dependent solely on power output)?  Were the
developers of T4 really telling me that there's the same vast number of
people needed to crew a tiny anti-matter plant as a large nuclear plant
of the same output?  Where do they put them all?  Make the power output
big enough and the crew won't fit in it anymore.

OK, I'm using a sarcastic/irritated tone for effect.  I'm not really
that mad -- I just want high tech levels to be given the proper
attention in T5.  It strikes me that they're a mere afterthought in T4,
possibly because of the M:0 focus.  For those of us in unshattered
M:1120, that oversight is unfortunate.

To put my comments in the proper tone, I'm using T4 for the current
campaign, and will no doubt switch to T5 as soon as enough material is
available.  I have confidence in Mr. Miller.  What he's said so far
confirms my expectation that T5 will rock.  I just want it to rock at
TL-15 - 18 as well as at TL-12.

Martyn
 ----pixie@interpath.com----Martyn Wheeler----DoD #293----1kspt=25-----
"Touch me with your soul, Bless me with your smile        / traci lords
 Give to me all your love, Baby watch me fly, watch me fly!"
   "High and wide open, reaching forever, I fly into the blue" -- Moby

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 01:54:14 -0500
From: "Paul Schirf" <pc@PerkWorks.com>
Subject: Shivva Bridge / Fighters / Jump Drives

Still a work in progress, I'd really like some comments on the
main deck of the Shivva...

http://www.PerkWorks.com/traveller/downloads/ShivvaDeckB.gif

Paul@Schirf.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 02:11:28 -0500 (EST)
From: neo@total.net
Subject: Re: Shiiva Deckplans

Paul Schirf <pc@PerkWorks.com> asks:

>I'm currently converting my homegrown Shiiva deckplans to CC2 to be added to
>my site in a few days... but I have a question.  What other sources for
>Shiiva class deckplans exist(ed)?

I drew deckplans for the "Shivva" for the third GURPS:Trav book, _Alien
Races_, which I believe is currently at the printers. I was told to base it
on the rather fanciful illustration (in _Leviathan_?), it's a weird-looking
ship, with dome-shaped pods sticking out of a tapered cylinder, and other
odd details. The plans use 1 yard GURPS hexgrids, and don't show a power
plant. Otherwise, they're basically CT-style plans, in terms of stateroom
size and so forth.

But since these are plans for a GURPS version of the Shivva, they may not
be of much use to you.

Best,

GMG

   ------------------------Glenn Grant------------------------  
                         <neo@total.net>
             Now in trade paperback from Tor Books:
   _Northern Stars: The Anthology of Canadian Science Fiction_
             Edited by David Hartwell & Glenn Grant
    "Sex times Technology equals The Future." -- J.G. Ballard

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:20:51 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re combat systems [rant warning]

>
>> I'm well aware that 1-shot kills with .22 and .22LR are low. But they are
>> possible (7th left intercostal space, either eye socket) on a good hit IN
>> THE REAL WORLD, but not in TNE nor T4.
>
>The quick-kill rule certainly replicates this (I would interpret it as
>giving 1d-1 weapons the same chances as 1d), so I don't see what you're
>complaining about. Possibly the chance of quick-kills should be doubled for
>head hits vs. chest...
>
>Bruce
<sarcasm>
No offence, but are you TNE fiends all blind to the point I've been trying
to make???

That rule is specifically for NPC's, and has a DIFFERENT EFFECT upon PC's
(double damage vs instant death). TNE WRITES IN NEARLY TOTAL PLAYER
CHARACTER RULES IMMUNITY TO SMALL ARMS SNIPERS!
</sarcasm>
Thus, it fails to replicate consistantly.

That's what I've been bitching about for 4+ ^&&%^**^$% YEARS... And T4 went
the OTHER WAY from reality.... Guns don't kill with single shots against
joe average in T4... due to the 3d limit. (Yes, I'm aware of the
multipliers for increased difficulty of shot. That specifically excludes
the random hit kill.)

And, at least one of my regular players seems to be a canon and rules
lawyer, no names, but he's on the list.

Alas, I'll stick to the single mechanic for damage MT for traveller. I'll
use 2300 for the ocasional lark. And I won't buy T5.

Again, Bruce, no offence intented...

<rant><Bitch&moan mode=on>
 I just feel like I've said the same thing 5 times this week, and this
happens about 1 time per 6-8 months... over the last 3.5+ years... it gets
tiring. It seems like nobody responds to a whole post anymore, but find
partial responses suggesting I try something I referenced having found
unsatisfactory in an original post to which the responded. I wasn't seeking
a solution so I can use TNE.... any TNE WEENIES who think they can convert
me to TNE should check themselves for crainial-intrarectal-retention.  I've
tried it, and many of the fixes, and found the whole bloody system lacking.
Somebody asked why, I explained... then several others started making
suggestions on how tio fix it.... I COULDN"T GIVE A %^&%*$&* any more.
<Bitch&moan mode=off></rant>

And to the gent pointing out the "Critical Bleed  out" in TNE, thanks.. I'd
forgotten about that... however, it is only criticals....

The Odes of Traveller Odiosity:
CT: where PC's couldn't learn after they got out of the service.
MT: Where Striker and HighGuard meet, but ships use some form of T-plate
driven sublight constant speed drive.*
TNE: where PC's are all Iron-Men.
T4: where all all small arms can be used to KO somebody safely.
GT: where age matters little, and TAS is overpriced.

*I've noted over the years that MT is basically, CT with more skills, and
an improved version of Striker integrated, but still using High Guard for
Ship-Ship combat. MT also uses thrust as speed, and aircraft like maneuver
capabilities, for starship combat. I'll admit, even MT has some broken bits.

I will no longer respond to this thread on the TML. Private e-mails, for
those truly interested in the details, are fine.


William F. Hostman
<Mailto:aramis@gci.net> Note: All other E-mail addresses for me expire by
the end of november 1998!
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
UTUP 0309 6-7779577-5-5-2
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:50:53 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Military Buffs

>
>Btw, we have the culture-guys & the gearheads, but is there any term for
>the gamers who like the military?

Wargamers. Anime/manga fans <G>. Traveller Players with Book 4.
MegaTraveller Rebellion players.

But no cohesive term I can think of specifically.


William F. Hostman
<Mailto:aramis@gci.net> Note: All other E-mail addresses for me expire by
the end of november 1998!
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
UTUP 0309 6-7779577-5-5-2
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 00:31:36 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Geography of North America

...
>And BTW, doesn't France have two little tiny possession islands just off the
>Canadian Atalntic coast (Miguelite and Piqueron, or something like that?).

  St. Pierre and Miquelon. <sigh> It wasn't Wolfe's fault...

  Sadly, the frogs got nukes :)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 02:32:29 -0500
From: "Paul Schirf" <pc@PerkWorks.com>
Subject: Re: Shiiva Deckplans

>I drew deckplans for the "Shivva" for the third GURPS:Trav book, _Alien
>Races_, which I believe is currently at the printers. I was told to base it
>on the rather fanciful illustration (in _Leviathan_?), it's a weird-looking
>ship, with dome-shaped pods sticking out of a tapered cylinder, and other
>odd details. The plans use 1 yard GURPS hexgrids, and don't show a power
>plant. Otherwise, they're basically CT-style plans, in terms of stateroom
>size and so forth.


Using the A4 (Leviathan) Page 43 image this is the side view drawing I
came up with for my CT plans:

http://www.perkworks.com/traveller/downloads/ShivvaSide.gif

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 17:39:01
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: mostly G:T

>From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
>Subject: Re: Harassment Insurance
>
>Might I recommend the services of the law firm of Dewey, Cheatham, and
>Howe?  This prestigious Spinward Marches law firm provides my Noble
>character with _excellent_ (and hideously expensive) legal
>representation.
>

I wouldnt hire Dewey Cheatem and Howe. They are Marxists, and thus
politically unreliable.

>From: CPsyop@aol.com
>Subject: Re: NightHawk G:T fighter
>
>If you are referring to det-lasers you can find some GURPS Vehicles expansion
>rules at (http://www.io.com/GURPSnet/Archive/Vehicles/Construction/V2ad/).
 If
>instead you are referring to chemical cartridge lasers my own solution to
that
>was to build the laser with non-rechargeable power cells, one cell/cartridge
>per shot/burst.
>

Can we put one in a small enough space to replace a G:T missile warhead ?


>From: "N. Eric Phillips" <stilleon@io.com>
>Subject: Re: NightHawk G:T fighter
>
>NightHawk Revised
>
>Crew: Pilot and Gunner
>
>10-ton SL Hull, DR 125, Turret, 3 Missile Racks, Cockpit Bridge, 6 M-Drive,
>Radical Stealth and Emissions Cloaking
>
>Statistics: Mass 78.9, Cost MCr 8.7, HP Hull 3000, Hull Size Mod +6
>
>Performance: Accel 7.6, Airspeed 4,009
>

The lack of secondary armament is a much bigger problem than CompLam armour
in my book. 

By the way, if you ripped the RadStealth and EmCloaking, you'd save MCr 3
off the sticker cost, and 2t. A TL12 double turret laser will save another
14.4 t, but cost MCr 1.36 extra ... add a single sandcaster to make that 8
t less and MCr 0.24 more.

Net mass saving is 24.6 t, and MCr 1.4 ... mass is therefore 54.3t, so with
600 t of thrust we pull eleven gees.

And there was me wondering why Ditzie was wandering around with a fixed,
manic grin ...

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 00:46:51 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: First Contact future history

...
>Hey, I didn't say ONLY 2 countries in North America, I said its an
>interesting story of 2 countries in North America....  Mexico,
>Greenland, Iceland (Europe?) didn't really enter into the story at all. 
>And Canada?  Well, it fell to the USA....  I mean, AK-47s tended to
>unbalance the balance of power in land warfare.

  The author seems to have written the last chapter or so in a mad rush
and perhaps a somewhat desperate desire to avoid offending his potential
market; his normally good research goes down the tubes real fast after
Washington falls.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 02:53:44 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re: Vargr On The Big Screen

>>One of them is the dragon-eared character from that old 'Dragon' comic
>>strip...which name escapes me now...
>
>  Wormy?

 or maybe... Snarf?

GypsyComet
 (who misses Wormy a great deal, even after all these years)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 01:51:19 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Experience

>From: CardSharks@aol.com
>Subject: Re: Experience
...
>EXPERIENCE
>	The completion of the character generation process does not end the
>accumulation of skills. Characters receive one skill level every year.
...
>	On the character's birthday, EPs are examined. The EP with the highest level
>of usage is converted to one level of skill and awarded to the character. All
>other Experience Points are lost.
...
>	Restrictions. Because Experience Points can only be awarded in terms of
>skills actually used, they can only be awarded in skills already held by the
>character, or in default skills. The only ways of acquiring non-default skills
>not already held by a character is through education (through formal education
>or instruction by another character), or from an Aspiring Life Pursuit.. 

  A possible alternative might be to award a "level increase" each year, without
recording skill usage. Increasing the level of a skill would require a number of
levels equal to the current level in that skill (minimum cost of one). Thus,
buying
a level zero skill (familiarizing oneself with a new skill) occurs over a
year of 
non-dedicated practice/training, as does increasing a skill from level one
to two.

  This does sharply reduce the increase in higher level skills, as increasing
from Pilot-2 to 3 would take two years worth of normal experience allocations;
this results in characters who become broadly more capable post-generation,
and only become extremely skilled during play at a high opportunity cost.
Something like this would avoid the risk that the best "fill in the blank"
(pilot, engineer, medic) among the players will gain a level per year in their
main  skill and quickly cause a resemblance amongst the PC party to your
favourite
Trek versions bridge crew* :)

        Steven Hudson

  * (hmm, don't wear red?)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 04:09:44 -0500
From: "Paul Schirf" <pc@PerkWorks.com>
Subject: Re: Experience

> On the character's birthday, EPs are examined. The EP with the highest
level
>of usage is converted to one level of skill and awarded to the character.
All
>other Experience Points are lost.

To prevent the Navigation-1 Pilot-20 problem that may quickly (or not so
quickly) develop... why not retain the experience points from the
non-advancing
skills.  Thus, unless the use of one skill REALLY outweighs the other skill,
a number of skills have the opportunity to advance.

Example: Han has Pilot-2, Bribery-1.  He uses Pilot 12 times (12 EP)
and Bribery 10 times (10 EP).  He advances to Pilot-3 on his birthday and
begins the next year with Pilot-0*, Bribery-10*.  The next year he
accumulates
11 more Pilot EP (Pilot-11*) and 7 more Bribery EP (Bribery-17*), so on his
next birthday be advances to Bribery-2 and begins the next birthday with
Pilot-11*, Bribery-0*.  etc...

Paul

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 03:06:34 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Vargr On The Big Screen

> >>One of them is the dragon-eared character from that old 'Dragon' comic
> >>strip...which name escapes me now...
> >  Wormy?
>  or maybe... Snarf?

The dragon wargammer?

> GypsyComet
>  (who misses Wormy a great deal, even after all these years)

Dito...

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:55:54 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: First Contact future history

Rob Camino <swordworlder@yahoo.com> wrote:

>>Interesting story of 2
>>countries in North America.  That should cause plenty of divergencefrom
>>present reality plain enough.....
>I was always under the impression there are two countries in
>NorthAmerica
>already. When did Canada annexe the USA?
>=========================
>And when did Greenland, Iceland and Mexico move to other continents?

The first two are European ;-)

Mexico is kind of debatable... sort of in the middle and ..... oh go on
then. When did Canada annexe the USA and Mexico?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:01:48 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: First Contact future history

 shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson) wrote:

>  The coup de grace was when we convinced them that Michael J. Fox was a
>cultural icon; their decline from greatness post-Reagan can be directly
>attributed to this (viz. Bush, Clinton).
>
>  Of course, now that I've told you that you'll have to be re-programmed,
>but a few hours of Baywatch (presided over by none other than David
>Hasselhoff! - truly your culture is irredeemably far gone) should reduce
>anyone to a suitably quiescent gel atop their spinal cord...

I hear and obey oh master of the true product of Classic Traveller...

I just had my brain lightly cooked this morning anyway ;-)

BTW - if you've got to brainwash me, I need to expand the question - when
does Canada annexe the USA, Mexico and the UK?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 23:44:59 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Solomani Generals (humour?)

Solomani General #1
Enjoys the company of an attractive young woman. Likes listening to classic 
music. Is always being fitted for a new uniform. Often says "We are not all 
barbarians you know"

Solomani General #2
Dislikes 'soft and decadent' generals (refer #1). Is constantly nervous and 
almost paranoid. Often grabs the phone and shouts "Get me the coordinator of 
SolSec!!"

Solomani General #3
Rather effete, frequently dabs at his lips with a handerchief. Wears a long 
leather greatcoat and frequently laughs menacingly and orders prisoners sent 
to detention block D for "interrogation".

Solomani General #4
Walks with a limp and wears a slightly different uniform to other generals (for 
reasons which are never explained). Has a much more casual and relaxed 
attitude than other generals and would rather be with his men. Has spent many 
happy years in the Imperium.

Solomani General #5
Outwardly calm, but flies into sudden fits of rage for no readily apparent reason.
Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:22:16 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

David P. Summers writes:
>Trying to find someone with a trail that is months old will be a tricky
>matter, esp. since the rate at which you can spread the word about them
>isn't much faster than they can travel (if at all).  And all they have to
>do in that period of time is shake their paper trail once.

I've been trying to stay out of the discussion this time round, but I just
can't let that one pass. As has been pointed out a number of times by a
number of people, official news do move a lot faster than most (if not all)
freetraders engaged in legitimate merchant operations. Official news goes in
straight lines by jump-6 couriers whereas freetraders ramble back and forth
as the freight and trade takes them at jump-1 or jump-2. It also moves faster
than freetraders trying to run away from some specific spot, but I'll admit
that if someone is deliberately trying to get far, far away from somewhere as
quickly as possibly without trying to make any money on the way, they may
have a slight chance of getting away with it. Especially if they have a lead
of a few months.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"Facts are stubborn things, but not half so stubborn as fallacies."
                - Stella Maynard in "Anne of the Island"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 07:44:43 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Vargr On The Big Screen

At 11:11 PM 18/11/98 -0800, you wrote:
>...
>>One of them is the dragon-eared character from that old 'Dragon' comic
>>strip...which name escapes me now...
>
>  Wormy?
>

        Snarf, from "SnarfQuest", I believe....
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1159
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, November 19 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1160



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Bureacracy in the Imperium (was Re: Smuggling)
Re: Smuggling
Re: An amusing Aside
Re: .22 cal.
Re: .22 cal.
Re: Smuggling
Re: .22 cal.
Re: Experience
Re: Shivva Bridge / Fighters / Jump Drives
Re: Shivva Bridge / Fighters / Jump Drives
Re: Smuggling
Old X-Boat List
re: Smuggling
re: Smuggling
Re: Geography of North America
Re: Military Buffs
Re: Bureacracy in the Imperium (was Re: Smuggling)
Re: Geography of North America

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:43:36 +0100 (MET)
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
Subject: Bureacracy in the Imperium (was Re: Smuggling)

On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:

>David P. Summers writes:
>>Trying to find someone with a trail that is months old will be a tricky
>>matter, esp. since the rate at which you can spread the word about them
>>isn't much faster than they can travel (if at all).  And all they have to
>>do in that period of time is shake their paper trail once.
>
>I've been trying to stay out of the discussion this time round, but I just
>can't let that one pass. As has been pointed out a number of times by a
>number of people, official news do move a lot faster than most (if not all)
>freetraders engaged in legitimate merchant operations. Official news goes in
>straight lines by jump-6 couriers whereas freetraders ramble back and forth
>as the freight and trade takes them at jump-1 or jump-2. It also moves faster
>than freetraders trying to run away from some specific spot, but I'll admit
>that if someone is deliberately trying to get far, far away from somewhere as
>quickly as possibly without trying to make any money on the way, they may
>have a slight chance of getting away with it. Especially if they have a lead
>of a few months.

The piracy thread, this thread and some others has given me some questions.

1. What level of beureacracy does the Imperium have?
   How many people commonly work under the starport chief?
   How many under a subsector duke?
   Or a sector duke?
   How about the Emperor?

2. Does these officals really use to much time checking who has done
   what two subsectors away, or do they first notice when the 
   starport chief i a far away system issues an offical arrest order?

3. How many such arrest orders can be issued throughout the Imperium
   before officals really don't bother with them because it is to much work to
   go through, and start consentrating on local business?

To me it seems that you Hans, and some of the other guys here has a vision
of the Imperium employing millons of clerks, analysts, lawyers. I see the
arguments that the IN is huge because of the tax income that is used on it.
But how much taxes are used on the people working for the Imperium?


>      Hans Rancke

Tommy Grav
- -------------------------------------------------------------
tommy.grav@astro.uio.no     http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/  
Institute of Astrophysics, UiO, No  
IMTU tn++t4+tg+ ru+ge++ !3i jt+au+st+ls hi++dr-so++zh-sy-sw++ 
 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:58:31 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

Ian Whitchurch writes:

>>From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>

>>Trying to find someone with a trail that is months old will be a tricky
>>matter, esp. since the rate at which you can spread the word about them
>>isn't much faster than they can travel (if at all).  And all they have to
>>do in that period of time is shake their paper trail once.
>
>Most commercial shipping with go at jump-3 or -4, tops.

Not to mention that commercial shipping usually go by scheduled runs and
in any case have owners with fixed abodes. I thought you were talking
about those footloose, fancy-free freetraders who can go whereever they
want -- as long as going whereever they want enables them to earn enough
money to pay their operating expenses, that is.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 03:18:45 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: An amusing Aside

In mail you write:

> The spectacular return from near extinction of the Florida alligator is
> being credited to the US space program.  The 'gators were nearly wiped out
> in the mid 60s when regular launches began at KSC.  Biologists soon noticed
> a marked upswing in the gator population.  Seems that the mating call of a
> male gator is a booming roar, sounding much like a rocket firing.  The
> gtors near KSC hear this "mega-gator", and sound off themselves.  This
> chain reaction can reach the Everglades, setting off a Florida-wide
> alligator orgy.

KSC is the middle of a *big* wildlife refuge. The animals mostly ignore
the loud noises (It's *not* a survival trait to get startled by loud
noises!). There are photos of ducks flying along calmly *between* a
launch and the observation area.

While the gators and other critters occasionaly cause operational
problems, for the most part they either don't effect operations, or
they *add* security. All those gators make sneaking onto the site a
*lot* harder. 

Picture an equivalent installation on a colony world. Your team has to
either sneak past tight security at the guarded entrances, or risk
becoming "gator snacks" for the local wildlife. 

This gets especialy interesting when a large, hungry animal is about to
munch on one of the party. Not only will weapons fire draw unwanted
attention, but you could wind up being prosecuted for hunting an
endangered species!

"Save the WereWolf. Help protect an endangering species!"

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 03:29:59 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

In mail you write:

> Energy always comes up in a discussion small arms rounds. For most rounds,
> energy is not nearly as important as where the bullet hits and how much 
> damage
> it does. A .22 through the eye into the brain usually kills because it is so
> easy for it to do damage; energy is irrelevant (an arrow or a rod pushed
> byhand through this same pather probably kills too).

Data point:

A few years back in Oregon, some "hunting budies" got drunk and tried
the William Tell bit. The guy with the beercan on his head wound up
with an arrow thru the eye and all the way to the back of his skull!

Amazingly, he survived with no serious damage other than the loss of
the eye. This was partly because he and his buddies were bright enough
to *not* try to move the arrowe. They just laid him on his back in a
truck and ran him to the hospital. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:13:21 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

At 11:41 PM 18/11/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>From: "Peter L.S. Trevor" <ptrevor.trisen@zetnet.co.uk>
>>Subject: Re: .22 cal.
>...
>>    2 = scratch,
>>    3-11 = normal damage
>>    12 = kill
>>
>>Thus the average damage for a .22 may not  _normally_  be  enough
>>for a kill, but sometimes you do hit a vital spot (like the eye).
>>The question in my mind is: how abnormal are abnormal events  (is
>>2d enough or should it be 3d ... or more)?
>
>  Now there's a system simple enough for a munchkin to understand - although
>they may misread it as "must wear armour immune to man-portable weapons". In
>CT, having the "12" read as double damage still makes for a real effect - the
>worst you could do with even a pathetic (2D) round would be a third of the
>average targets hit points.
>
>        Steven Hudson

        I usually had a "drop chart" for critical fumbles and effects...
so, if you hit a 12, do this:

        1-3 ..... x2 effect
        4-5 ..... x2.5 effect
         6  ..... 1-3 ..... x3 
                  4-5 ..... x3.5
                   6  ..... 1-3 ..... x4
                            4-5 ..... x4.5
                             6  ..... x5

        This makes the "WTF?!?!" fluke possible, but not probable.  I
usually only go 3 iterations of the chart...  Otherwise the mutliplier
starts to get obnoxious.
                  
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:13:22 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

At 01:43 AM 19/11/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Ian Whitchurch wrote:
>Checking every thirtieth trader to see if he's trying to make a
>dishonest credit? The mind boggles. If it's information and not
>enforcement you want, you can do random sampling a lot less less
>intrusively. 

        Here in the RealWorld(tm) Port of Halifax, we get one to three "G3"
container ships and a couple of coastal frieghters every day.  Call us a
"Class B" port...  Canada customs databases the manifest list for every ship
that comes and goes, and "targets" specific shipments for inspection.  For
example, if a given container originated in Colombia, then it gets higher
priority than one that originated in London.  Given that a G3 ship carries
~2000 TFUs, they manage to break seals under warranty and phyiscally inspect
an average of 0.3% of traffic.  Of course, because of the paperwork
pre-screening, these are the *top* of the curve for contraband probability.
They nail something big every month.

>
>>You check the actual cargo against the manifest:
>
>Not without an army of inspectors, and not until the goods are offloaded,
>you don't.  Going into a ship's cargo hold and cracking open stowed and
>sealed containers to find out if they really contain what they say they do
>is a good way to make honest merchants hate you.


        We did this as part of the UN sanctions in the Red Sea against
Iraq...  250 ships in 90 days;  three teams of 9 armed Naval personell
operating from RHIBs with gunship support.  Now, admittedly, all they were
doing was eye-ball filtering the cargo manifest for "funny-looking"
containers and then cracking those ones...  however, in conjunction with 5
other ships from other UN nations, in the 90 days on station we turned back
three merchantmen for carrying stuff not allowed to be shipped to Iraq.

>>copy the manifest, then batch it up and send the batched
>>manifests back to the source worlds. They cross check it against
>>outgoing cargos declared, and a form letter to who the manifest
>>says you bought it off. If anything doesnt match, then the ship
>>goes onto the watch list.
>
>Add at least two weeks per jump, for round-trip information flow.
>(request plus reply). By the time you compile and get the
>information to your neighbors, it's already a month old or more.
>Then consider the rate of clerical errors, and their effect on
>false alarms. You have a choice of delayed and untrustworthy, or
>reliable but hopelessly outdated.

        Nope... you are thinking 20thC tech.  Every cargo container has a
WORM drive on it that has recorded every place it has ever been...
micro-reciever tied to a dedicated computer system in the cartridge
"listens" for the "You are at <PORTNAME>.  The date is <DATE:TIME>" signal
that is transmmited every 15 mins by the starport authority.  The container
records the first time it hears the signal, every time the container is
opened or closed, everytime the wieght of the container changes by more than
5% and the extrapolated DATE:TIME after it *misses* a time check (ie: it has
been loaded into a starship, etc).  Every *registered* starship has the
exact same transmitter in its cargo hold.  It says "You are are aboard the
<SHIPNAME>.  The date is <SHIPDATE:SHIPTIME>".  Same logging routine.
        Every container has a unique ID (like NIC cards).  Customs walks
into the hold, takes out his laptop and presses "QUERY ALL" and every
container in the hold Xmits back to his laptop the summaries for the past
month.  His laptop (being a P^5000-1GHz) with AI routines then sorts the
list based on "Hmmm... *that* looks suspicious" rules and flags the top 5%
of containers.
        Those containers are then taken to a customs holding area for
inspection using a varitey of appropriate technologies.  Once they clear,
they are released.  If they turn up "funny" it is rarely the Merchants
fault;  unless the Merchant has a record of "funny" cargoes at this port
he/she/it is free to go.  Otherwise he/she/it gets zapped by the legal system.

	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:52:58 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

At 01:38 PM 18/11/98 -0800, you wrote:
>That would be a neat trick, since there is no Cartoid (artery or vein)
>in the body and the "Carotid Artery" (external and/or internal) are in
>the neck, not the leg.

        Hi, Mark.

        <Sigh>  Sorry.  Quibble-fodder again.  Femoral, then.  Same result.
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:40:12 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Experience

At 07:11 PM 18/11/98 -0600, you wrote:
>As I'm experiencing fatherhood, I noticed that my new daughter has
>obviously earned experience, as she has improved her crying-3 to at least
>crying-5.

        Wait 'till this cascades to Shriek-2+...  My 15 month old son is
getting towards being able to rattle glass on a natural roll of 12.... <VBG>

>Which make me think about experience in Traveller. CT had very little in
>the way of an experience - in fact, that was one of the reasons I often had
>trouble finding players - they complained that their characters never improved.
>
>Later systems did better.
>
>I'm curious what people think about this - particularly Marc, as he's
>working on T5. I never had a big problem with it - character's gained
>money, items, renown, etc...but what do people think?
>
>
        I use a pretty straight-forward system.  Every player has a sheet
with all thier skills written down on it, and thier Skill Development Points.
        Every time they use a skill, +1 SDP.
        Every time they critical success a skill, +3 SDP.
        Every time they take 1 day formal training, +(Thier Skill Level -
Instructor (Instruct or Skill, which ever lower), Min 1.

        Every year, pick the skill you want to improve (as long as you have
points).  Roll 10+;  DM+ (INT/5) (how fast do you learn), DM+
INT(SQRT(SDP)).  On a success, all SDP's are cashed in. On failed attempt,
50% of SDP's are cashed in Player can try to roll for up to two different
skills; stop trying after first successful roll.

        It works *pretty* well.... it means than in a 4 year period, they
will get an average of two skills, but sometimes, if life has been intense
or they have been training alot, they can get up to 4.  Which is pretty much
what happens on the character creation tables.
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:58:34 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Shivva Bridge / Fighters / Jump Drives

At 01:54 AM 19/11/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Still a work in progress, I'd really like some comments on the
>main deck of the Shivva...
>
>http://www.PerkWorks.com/traveller/downloads/ShivvaDeckB.gif
>
>Paul@Schirf.com
>
        "Alien" is a good description.  "Ugly" is another.  I like it.  It's
obviously a patrol carrier or somesuch.  Not human, I take it?
        I am not a fan of the "corrigated engine component" approach to
drawing.  I've never seen a real propulsion system look like that.  Of
course, I've never seen a fusion reactor or jump drive either. =)
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:58:35 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Shivva Bridge / Fighters / Jump Drives

At 01:54 AM 19/11/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Still a work in progress, I'd really like some comments on the
>main deck of the Shivva...

        One question:  How do you get to the bridge?

        Doncha just love CC2?
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:17:00 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

At 12:58 PM 19/11/98 +0100, you wrote:
>Ian Whitchurch writes:
>
>>>From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
>
>>>Trying to find someone with a trail that is months old will be a tricky
>>>matter, esp. since the rate at which you can spread the word about them
>>>isn't much faster than they can travel (if at all).  And all they have to
>>>do in that period of time is shake their paper trail once.
>>
>>Most commercial shipping with go at jump-3 or -4, tops.
>
>Not to mention that commercial shipping usually go by scheduled runs and
>in any case have owners with fixed abodes. I thought you were talking
>about those footloose, fancy-free freetraders who can go whereever they
>want -- as long as going whereever they want enables them to earn enough
>money to pay their operating expenses, that is.
>

        Besides, information is "ripple effect" driven.  It propagates
outward from the point of insertion into the Government Datanet at various
rates;  usually jump-4.  Eventually, every warrant or what have-you will be
seen by *every* databank in the Datanet.  You can try and keep ahead of the
"ripple" if you like, but eventually this will drive you out of Known Space
into what is functionally Exile.

        Which means it is possible to trip over a warrant from *years* ago
and have to deal with the ensuing headaches ("I was CLEARED, I tell you!").
That and eventually the low-tech worlds would run out of dataspace.  I deal
with these points by having information "expire" in databases based on
priority level and tech level of the planet...  Which means that a backwater
system may have once heard that you were a smuggler, but all the warrants on
your ship scrolled off the bottom of thier databank *months* ago.  The TL15+
world Never Forgets Anything.
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:37:37 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Old X-Boat List

        Is this still alive?  If not, anything like it?  I am much more a CT
fan than any of the successor products.  I was just wondering...  Thanks...
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:49:53 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Smuggling

Hans Ranke-Madsen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Official news goes in
straight lines by jump-6 couriers whereas freetraders ramble back and forth
as the freight and trade takes them at jump-1 or jump-2.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Didn't you mean Jump-4? Or are those ImperialLines fast couriers doing
customs control work now?

Still faster than most free/far traders will go, depending how thick the
X-Boat routes are where you are operating. But the big boys take all
the trade along the X-Boat routes, so your Free Trader was trading
elsewhere anyway.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:54:52 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Smuggling

Michael Vailincourt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
        Nope... you are thinking 20thC tech.  Every cargo container has a
WORM drive on it that has recorded every place it has ever been...
micro-reciever tied to a dedicated computer system in the cartridge
"listens" for the "You are at <PORTNAME>.  The date is <DATE:TIME>" signal
that is transmmited every 15 mins by the starport authority. 
<snip>
        Those containers are then taken to a customs holding area for
inspection using a varitey of appropriate technologies.  Once they clear,
they are released.  If they turn up "funny" it is rarely the Merchants
fault;  unless the Merchant has a record of "funny" cargoes at this port
he/she/it is free to go.  Otherwise he/she/it gets zapped by the legal system
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Just a thought:

I didn't put unforgable, uncrackable transponders IMTU's starships,
I'm *not* going to put them on every dinky cargo container.

Do these devices go on cargo containers made by TL-5 worlds too?

And again, it doesn't matter how good your cargo tracking stuff is.
All you need is a backwater frontier world with an ethically challenged
port master, and you have a point to start a legitimate paper trail from.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 00:34:43 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Geography of North America

- ----------
> From: Steven Hudson <shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: Geography of North America
> Date: Thursday, 19 November 1998 18:31
> 
> ...
> >And BTW, doesn't France have two little tiny possession islands just off
the
> >Canadian Atalntic coast (Miguelite and Piqueron, or something like
that?).
> 
>   St. Pierre and Miquelon. <sigh> It wasn't Wolfe's fault...
> 
>   Sadly, the frogs got nukes :)

Actually, there was a bit of a scandal over these islands during World War
II.  The Free French seized them off the "legitimate French government"
(Vichy) without US permission.  At that stage of the war major elements in
the US government regarded De Gaulle as a fascist.  Later on, once Tunisia
had fallen and the Vichyite troops there had changed sides, the US tried to
engineer a new French government, excluding De Gaulle....

My interest in this:  in mid '41 "Allied" troops (mainly Australian, with
some Free French, British, Indian and "Arabs" (the latter included many
Jews, such as Moshe Dayan - this is the campaign in which he lost his eye))
invaded "French" Syria and Lebanon.  It was a six week sideshow campaign,
which also happens to have been the only Australian-French war!  The good
guys won!  (Vichy were fascist collaborators, after all...)

I play WWII miniatures.  This was a very colourful campaign, mainly fought
at battalion level, that seesawed back and forth.  The allies were
outnumbered, but still won.  It involved both submarines and camels!  It
had successful cavalry charges, and tanks!  I intend to refight this
campaign some day...

Relevance to Traveller:  none really.  On the other hand, Star Mercs can
(re-)fight anything.  Camels and SDBs?

Another plot hint for military SF:  Take a very close look at what has been
happening in Indonesia in the last week.  Have a look at what the Marines
were doing, compared to the (militarised) Police and the rest of the army.

Sorry, I will include bits of a post I received from another list to finish
what I started saying above.  I'll do it in a separate post.

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 23:19:14 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Military Buffs

> >Btw, we have the culture-guys & the gearheads, but is there any term for
> >the gamers who like the military?
> 
> Wargamers. Anime/manga fans <G>. Traveller Players with Book 4.
> MegaTraveller Rebellion players.
> 
> But no cohesive term I can think of specifically.
> 

I can't think of one either, but I have got one for the people who try to
explain TU science:  Hivers (Handwave, handwave, handwave....)

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 00:46:34 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Bureacracy in the Imperium (was Re: Smuggling)

Tommy Grav writes:
> To me it seems that you Hans, and some of the other guys here has a
vision
> of the Imperium employing millons of clerks, analysts, lawyers. I see the
> arguments that the IN is huge because of the tax income that is used on
it.
> But how much taxes are used on the people working for the Imperium?

Not much, on a percentage basis.  What is the population of the Imperium
again?

Damn, lucky I was writing this off-line.

Cargoes tend to be documented on chips.  "Paper Trails" might be much more
of a problem for people who use paper than for those who use AI's (no, Not
the TL 17 kind) to process electronic data.  Forgery and Computer skills
matter.  True, there is still a lot of processing to be done with finite
resources, but...

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

  

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 01:08:20 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Geography of North America

Right, this is an edit of a post I got from another list.    WARNING:  It
describes real world events, in which real people died, or were injured.

It relates to a previous post of mine.

If there is any question about its relevance to Traveller:
"You're a Star Merc and...."
> Without the thousands of troops ringing the building, with their tear
> gas, water cannons, tanks and armoured personnel carriers, the MPR would
> have been aborted and, quite possibly, the Habibie-Wiranto regime would
> have fallen.
> 
> The Habibie-Wiranto regime now rests only on the support of the military
> and its willingness to use violence against the people. The regime
> stands condemned and isolated. More confrontations will follow.
> 
> Students united
> 
> More than 150,000 students mobilised on November 12 and 13. These
> mobilisations also drew hundreds of thousands of workers and urban poor.
> Indonesian state radio reported that 1 million people mobilised on
> November 12. A similar number mobilised on November 13.
> 
> The massive mobilisations resulted from a new level of unity achieved by
> the student movement in Jakarta.
> 
> At the end of October, a new alliance called AKRAB was formed. AKRAB
> brought together all the major student activist groups, and the
> organised worker, urban poor and activist groups that support the demand
> for a complete abolition of the military's role in politics and which
> reject the legitimacy of the MPR.
> 
 <unnecessary political stuff snipped>

> Assembly points were selected in the eastern, western, southern and
> northern parts of Jakarta and march routes into the city centre to the
> parliamentary buildings chosen. There was agreement on the major
> demands, such as an end to any role for the military in politics,
> rejection of the MPR and the formation of a transitional government to
> organise free elections.
> 
> There was a consensus that the students should call on the other
> sections the Jakarta population to join the mobilisations.
> 
> This healed the divisions that had previously existed between those who
> supported a student alliance with the non-student masses and those
> opposed it. 

 <more politics snipped>

> In the east of the city, students from the universities in the area, the
> PRD, KOBAR, KOMRAD, KPM and FAMRED (see box for details of these groups)
   <box snipped>
> mobilised their forces. By the late afternoon of November 12, activists
> estimate that between 500,000 and 1 million people were moving along the
> streets.
> 
> Large numbers also joined in the eastern mobilisations, under the
> coordination of FORKOT.
> 
> Marshals were assigned along the route to protect shops owned by
> Indonesian-Chinese, as well as banks. One lane was kept open so traffic
> could pass. During the huge mobilisations, there was almost no damage to
> property, driving home the lesson that, with a clear political direction
> given to mass mobilisations, riots can be avoided.
> 
> On November 11, apparently without agreement from the police, the army
> sent several thousand paid thugs, armed with sharpened bamboo sticks, to
> help defend the parliament.
> 
> The students fought back. The Jakarta urban poor poured out of their
> neighbourhoods, some armed with air rifles and other weapons, to defend
> the students. The gangs of thugs quickly retreated and were ordered back
> to their villages.
> 
> The use of thugs was widely criticised. General Wiranto defended the
> deployment: "Why should anybody criticise people who just want to make
> things safe?". The police distanced themselves from the gangs.
> 
> Rumours spread that the paramilitary groups of the rightist Muslim group
> FIRKAN, associated with the Star and Crescent Party, were to be
> mobilised against the students. According to PRD activists, this was
> stymied when the paramilitary group of the more moderate Nahdatul Ulama
> (NU), headed by oppositionist Abdurrahman Wahid, threatened to side with
> the students.
> 
> NU youth activists, influenced by a Muslim liberation theology, were
> also active in the student mobilisations, especially in FAMRED.
> 
> Pitched battle
> 
> On the evening of November 12, between 7.30 and 10pm, a pitched battle
> took place between about 15,000 demonstrators and the troops defending
> the parliament building.
> 
> The demonstrators had broken through blockades on the eastern and
> western approaches and made it to the gates of the MPR grounds. Charge
> and counter-charge took place between the students and soldiers. Scores
> of students were injured.
> 
> The worst military violence took place in the late afternoon and evening
> of November 13. Soldiers indiscriminately fired rubber-coated bullets
> into the crowds. Workers and urban poor had mobilised significantly and
> they accounted for many of the hundreds who were injured.
> 
> The masses and students fought back with rocks, projectiles and molotov
> cocktails.
> 
> Protests also occurred in other cities. In Solo, students occupied the
> local parliament. In Yogyakarta, the state radio station was occupied.
> Demonstrations also occurred in north Sumatra.
> 
> The solidarity between students, workers and the urban poor, combined
> with increased organisation and militancy, represents a real threat to
> the regime.
> 

OK, by now your PCs want to get out.  Fine.  The Starport Administrator is
a Bwap, and the Starport is garrisoned by Sword Worlders, who don't like
them....

Traditionally, in Mil SF, such situations are resolved by a re-enactment of
the 6th century AD "Nika Riots", which were historically suppressed by
Belisarius (and Narses??).  Both Jerry Pournelle and David Drake have
ripped these events off, one with Falkenberg, the other with Hammer's mob. 
Even L. Sprague de Camp did a fantasy version in "The Clocks of Iraz".

Come to think of it, I might write a version up for G:T...

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.com.au

ps:  this has got very little to do with the geography of North America,
doesn't it?

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1160
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, November 19 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1161



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: NightHawk G:T fighter
Re: Shivva Bridge / Fighters / Jump Drives
Longbow II
Re: Smuggling
Re: Experience
re: Smuggling
Military Buffs
direct hit with FGMP
Re: Smuggling
Re: NightHawk G:T fighter
Re: Shivva Bridge / Fighters / Jump Drives
Re: .22 cal.
RE: Variant wounding systems?
Re: Shivva Bridge / Fighters / Jump Drives
RE: The Beyond
The Beyond Races: Floriani

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 17:11:21 +0200 (EET)
From: Eppu Tuominen <eptitu@utu.fi>
Subject: Re: NightHawk G:T fighter

On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, Ian or Katts wrote:

 
> Finally, has anyone looked into building a combustion laser or other
> distant-effect missile warhead in Gurps ?
> 
 I sincerely hope so, because the contact warheads in CT and GT are
impossible.
 2 reasons:
 1) Scoring a contact hit on a less than 100m target from 
15000- 300 000km away is just not plausible (like trying to hit an F-14
with a homing missile from several thousand klicks, don´t think so)

 2) If you somehow did manage to score that contact hit, the result would
not be this or that amount of damage, the target would be _vaporized_ (You
wouldn´t even need a warhead, the kinetic enrgy several tons of metal
moving 10-20 km/s would do the trick nicely) 

- -------------
Eppu Tuominen
eptitu@utu.fi
- -------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:23:04 -0500
From: "Paul Schirf" <pc@PerkWorks.com>
Subject: Re: Shivva Bridge / Fighters / Jump Drives

> Nice work.  Ugly as sin, but nice work.  I love the side profiles
> you do...  I gotta start doing that.  

I'd love to see your ships with profiles.  The truth is, I can't
envision the ship until I do the profiles...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:39:18 -0500
From: Christopher Pratt <valen@gatecom.com>
Subject: Longbow II

OK guys

I'm pretty new to traveller and, ust finally getting around
to reading my GURPS traveller book (good book, even if the
binding is doomed to fail), and I came across the section
marked "for game masters only"

In this section is about half a page about a MASSIVE sensor
array called the longbow II, and mentioned briefly how it
works and some of the limitations of it.  two questions. 
Could anyone explain it and its advantages and limitations
better, and could some explain why it is such a huge secret?

thanks
- -- 
later
christopher pratt
valen@gatecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:53:59 -0500
From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
Subject: Re: Smuggling

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:13:22 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Smuggling
At 01:43 AM 19/11/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Ian Whitchurch wrote:
>Checking every thirtieth trader to see if he's trying to make a
>dishonest credit? The mind boggles. If it's information and not
>enforcement you want, you can do random sampling a lot less less
>intrusively.
        Here in the RealWorld(tm) Port of Halifax, we get one to three "G3"
container ships and a couple of coastal frieghters every day.  Call us a
"Class B" port...  Canada customs databases the manifest list for every
ship
that comes and goes, and "targets" specific shipments for inspection.  For
example, if a given container originated in Colombia, then it gets higher
priority than one that originated in London.  Given that a G3 ship carries
~2000 TFUs, they manage to break seals under warranty and phyiscally
inspect
an average of 0.3% of traffic.  Of course, because of the paperwork
pre-screening, these are the *top* of the curve for contraband probability.
They nail something big every month.
88*********************8
How big are the shipyards in Halifax? Build ships of just repair them?
Consider how the customs department there may vary with something else in
the same TL.  For example:  The Port of Rio de Janeiro which has both
shipyards and a naval base(the yards aren't that big, so call it a B port).
customs is not so tight there, and a few years ago (c. 1990) they caught
some inspectors taking bribes to pass cargoes.

>>copy the manifest, then batch it up and send the batched
>>manifests back to the source worlds. They cross check it against
>>outgoing cargos declared, and a form letter to who the manifest
>>says you bought it off. If anything doesnt match, then the ship
>>goes onto the watch list.
>
>Add at least two weeks per jump, for round-trip information flow.
>(request plus reply). By the time you compile and get the
>information to your neighbors, it's already a month old or more.
>Then consider the rate of clerical errors, and their effect on
>false alarms. You have a choice of delayed and untrustworthy, or
>reliable but hopelessly outdated.
        Nope... you are thinking 20thC tech.  Every cargo container has a
WORM drive on it that has recorded every place it has ever been...
micro-reciever tied to a dedicated computer system in the cartridge
****************
Nope..........you are thinking more than 20thC tech.  No cargo containers
built on TL5 planets would have these...where is you reference for this?


"listens" for the "You are at <PORTNAME>.  The date is <DATE:TIME>" signal
that is transmmited every 15 mins by the starport authority.  The container
records the first time it hears the signal, every time the container is
opened or closed, everytime the wieght of the container changes by more
than
5% and the extrapolated DATE:TIME after it *misses* a time check (ie: it
has
been loaded into a starship, etc).
***********
and at many ports it will never 'hear' such a thing, how many class E port
have this? Also there are may ways to spoof this.  Vary the grav plates
until the memory fills up for one.....record the starport signal and
rebrodcast that in your hold. even swap computers on containers......or
leave them open all the time, and vary the grav plates ot keep the weight
within 5%. And why would anyone stick a computer on a wooden container
filled with pool-ball fruit? how much does this computer cost? how about
the sensors to determine the weight? the door open/close sensores? the
utra-secure scrambled radios needed for them to work as you describe?  Or
do they all have meson coms?



Every *registered* starship has the
exact same transmitter in its cargo hold.  It says "You are are aboard the
<SHIPNAME>.  The date is <SHIPDATE:SHIPTIME>".  Same logging routine.
*****************
none of the GT ship modules have this listed as a component, neither do any
of the other versions of Traveller mention it.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:54:02 -0500
From: Martyn Wheeler <pixie@interpath.com>
Subject: Re: Experience

I rather liked the MT INT + EDU limit.  Once a character reached the
maximum, I allowed characters to add new skill levels provided they
dropped something else.  That way they could represent their changing
life experience by specialising in different skills.  If they dropped
skill levels in one skill completely, it didn't vanish, but remained at
skill-0, to represent "well, I used to be a good pilot, I guess I can
remember enough..."

Martyn
 ----pixie@interpath.com----Martyn Wheeler----DoD #293----1kspt=25-----
"Touch me with your soul, Bless me with your smile        / traci lords
 Give to me all your love, Baby watch me fly, watch me fly!"
   "High and wide open, reaching forever, I fly into the blue" -- Moby

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:04:58 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: re: Smuggling

At 08:54 AM 19/11/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Michael Vailincourt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>        Nope... you are thinking 20thC tech.  Every cargo container has a
>WORM drive on it that has recorded every place it has ever been...
>micro-reciever tied to a dedicated computer system in the cartridge
>"listens" for the "You are at <PORTNAME>.  The date is <DATE:TIME>" signal
>that is transmmited every 15 mins by the starport authority. 
><snip>
>        Those containers are then taken to a customs holding area for
>inspection using a varitey of appropriate technologies.  Once they clear,
>they are released.  If they turn up "funny" it is rarely the Merchants
>fault;  unless the Merchant has a record of "funny" cargoes at this port
>he/she/it is free to go.  Otherwise he/she/it gets zapped by the legal system
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Just a thought:
>
>I didn't put unforgable, uncrackable transponders IMTU's starships,
>I'm *not* going to put them on every dinky cargo container.
>
>Do these devices go on cargo containers made by TL-5 worlds too?
>
>And again, it doesn't matter how good your cargo tracking stuff is.
>All you need is a backwater frontier world with an ethically challenged
>port master, and you have a point to start a legitimate paper trail from.
>
>Walt Smith
>
        IMTU, I am running a TL10-11 game set around Terra (see below for
UTUP).  UN is the controlling authority;  Oppresive Fedual Technocracy is
the best description.   The Terran Sphere is about 11 subsectors;
construction of anything involving space flight is very carefully regulated.
While starship transponders and cargo-container tracking systems are hardly
hack-proof, it ain't easy (13+ for me to consider that you got passed the
encryption let alone can tinker with it).
        So, IMTU, what I am talking about is not too bad.  However, using
the Imperium model, it still is manageable at the subsector government
level.  The TL-5 worlds can't build starships, so most likely and cargo
containers rated for spaceflight are manufactured off-world, too.  And the
containers are the issue, the Tracking Device is;  build 'em on TL-10 worlds
and ship 'em whereever they need to be encorporated into a spaceflight-rated
container.
        I agree with your comment about "ethically challanged" Customs
Inspectors and Port Staff as being the weak link...  That is what the
"Bribery" and "Streetwise" skills are about...  you may not get the
container to "lie" for you, but you can pay the Inspector to check any other
container but that one.  ;)
        No system is infaliable... however, the issue is deployment of
technology to make it harder and harder on the smuggler and allow fewer
Customs staff per port to do more work, more effectively.  In the military,
we call them "Force Multipliers".
        IMTU, the players are starting and R&D firm whose goals are
supposedly to improve the survival characteristics of starship Transponders
and Log Recorders.  Really what they are up to is trying to *crack* the damn
things so they can manufacturer their own for piracy/ smuggling purposes....
Tell me they are the first ones to try this (NOT).

        [Begin UTUP Block]
        TNEC (The Near Earth Campaign)                  024AA5
	First Contact-A  History-A   Races-9
        [End UTUP Block]
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:10:05 -0800
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Military Buffs

- ------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:50:53 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Military Buffs

>
>Btw, we have the culture-guys & the gearheads, but is there any term for
>the gamers who like the military?

Wargamers. Anime/manga fans <G>. Traveller Players with Book 4.
MegaTraveller Rebellion players.

But no cohesive term I can think of specifically.


William F. Hostman
<Mailto:aramis@gci.net> Note: All other E-mail addresses for me expire by
the end of november 1998!
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
UTUP 0309 6-7779577-5-5-2
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

- ------------------------------

      Didn't they used to call the old military men who had been in for
      ever and a day, old War Horses?  Maybe if we are going to use terms
      like gearhead for those who like the tech, and culture-guys for those
      who like the role playing aspects, we should use the term combat
      monsters for those who like the military stuff.



Leo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:10:00 -0500
From: "Bob Sanders" <bsanders@amghome.com>
Subject: direct hit with FGMP

From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Bob Sanders wrote:
>
> In any game with combat the rules should be flexible for anything to
happen.
> I have also had a PC survive a direct hit with a FGMP.  It all depends on
> how you play the game.   Tactics, skill, location, damage, and the
> occasional freak accident should all be elements of roll playing combat.

In my last sesssion two PCs were killed by direct hits by FGMP-15s. I'm
curious
how you managed to let one survive such an attack, given that weapon's
damage.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Bob replies... the PC was hit in the leg.
I use a hit location chart, and an average PC can take about 14 points to
the leg.  A FGMP does about average 56 points (low of about 20-30, high
around 80-90)with .5 penetration in my game.

Lets take an average hit to the leg.  At zero the leg is useless, and at -14
points the leg is gone.  Excess damage is applied to the next appendage, the
abdomen.  Here the PC can handle about 20 points,  that brings the damage up
to about -8 in the abdomen.

The PC is in shock, one leg gone, one hanging on by a thread, and bleeding
severely from the lower abdomen area, probably with some intestine  hanging
out.  This PC will die, unless some really good medial attention is applied
quickly.  And even then it is not a sure thing.  Depends on the TL of the
facility.

If I remember correctly the PC in question got really lucky and only took
about 20 points to the leg.  I ruled that it was a near miss, and the damage
was from the heat and energy of the bolt that came within about 1 cm of his
leg.  Very lucky.

BTW, if the abdomen reaches -20, the PC has flat lined.  Only a full trauma
unit can fix that.
Hope this helps.

Bob

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:16:34 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

At 10:53 AM 19/11/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>        Here in the RealWorld(tm) Port of Halifax, we get one to three "G3"
>>container ships and a couple of coastal frieghters every day.  Call us a
>>"Class B" port...  Canada customs databases the manifest list for every
>>ship
>>that comes and goes, and "targets" specific shipments for inspection.  For
>>example, if a given container originated in Colombia, then it gets higher
>>priority than one that originated in London.  Given that a G3 ship carries
>>~2000 TFUs, they manage to break seals under warranty and phyiscally
>>inspect
>>an average of 0.3% of traffic.  Of course, because of the paperwork
>>pre-screening, these are the *top* of the curve for contraband probability.
>>They nail something big every month.
>88*********************8
>How big are the shipyards in Halifax? Build ships of just repair them?
>Consider how the customs department there may vary with something else in
>the same TL.  For example:  The Port of Rio de Janeiro which has both
>shipyards and a naval base(the yards aren't that big, so call it a B port).
>customs is not so tight there, and a few years ago (c. 1990) they caught
>some inspectors taking bribes to pass cargoes.

        We can build small warships locally, and can do dry-dock service on
two costal-size frieghters at once.  Modest size naval base.  BIG harbour
area for parking.

>>        Nope... you are thinking 20thC tech.  Every cargo container has a
>>WORM drive on it that has recorded every place it has ever been...
>>micro-reciever tied to a dedicated computer system in the cartridge
>****************
>Nope..........you are thinking more than 20thC tech.  No cargo containers
>built on TL5 planets would have these...where is you reference for this?
>
        Hmmm...  my "Canon"-detector went berserk.
        <sigh>
        No, I don't.  I was a possible suggestion.
        However, there would be, IMHO, some automated way of logging this
kind of traffic at a starport.  The postulation is that they can build jump
drives and computer programs to handle them...  this oughta be childs play.

>"listens" for the "You are at <PORTNAME>.  The date is <DATE:TIME>" signal
>that is transmmited every 15 mins by the starport authority.  The container
>records the first time it hears the signal, every time the container is
>opened or closed, everytime the wieght of the container changes by more
>than
>5% and the extrapolated DATE:TIME after it *misses* a time check (ie: it
>has
>been loaded into a starship, etc).
>***********
>and at many ports it will never 'hear' such a thing, how many class E port
>have this? 

        How many cargoes does the merchantman want automatically searched
because there is a gaping hole in the container's log records?  IMTU,
Starport Authorities all answer to an off-planet body.  If there is a
control tower there, there is a transponder.  In the case of E and X ports,
the issue is smuggling in, not out, and the local authorities have to deal
with it however they can.

>Also there are may ways to spoof this.  Vary the grav plates
>until the memory fills up for one.....record the starport signal and
>rebrodcast that in your hold. even swap computers on containers......or
>leave them open all the time, and vary the grav plates ot keep the weight
>within 5%.

        And in all cases, a smart programmer should be able to come up with
a way to determine a possible spoof in progress and flag it in the log.
Encrypted signals that vary by time, etc....
        Not to say that some enterprising sot couldn't figure away around
it... that's what the whole point about being a notorious smuggler is about.
The point is to keep the amatuers from lasting too long in the buisness.

> And why would anyone stick a computer on a wooden container
>filled with pool-ball fruit? how much does this computer cost? how about
>the sensors to determine the weight? the door open/close sensores? the
>utra-secure scrambled radios needed for them to work as you describe?  Or
>do they all have meson coms?
>

        Hmmm...  There goes my "Canon"-detector again.
        The question is how much does the government IYTU *care* about
smuggling.  That will indicate *how much* money they want to spend on the issue.
        I personally have always had a problem with the "wooden containers
in space" idea.  We rarely ship that way now...  break-bulk is so out of
fashion it is stupid.  You put the "wooden container filled with pool-ball
fruit" into a spaceflight-rate modular container (akin to the way we do it
in the RealWorld(tm)) and the recorder/logger is integral to the container.
        20thC piezo electric technology is almost to the point where you can
use it to notice defelction is wieght.  Add 3+ TLs and its a non-issue.
Same thing for the weight of the computer.  The radio systems are easy again
when you can can build a 5000 meter range commlink wieghing 100grams at TL8.
RealWorld(tm) cargo containers need maintence on a regular basis...  when
the hypothetical "smart container" I suggest is in for maintainence, you add
the next 3 months of decryption keys to the computer.  The comms are
*mostly* secure that way.

>Every *registered* starship has the
>exact same transmitter in its cargo hold.  It says "You are are aboard the
><SHIPNAME>.  The date is <SHIPDATE:SHIPTIME>".  Same logging routine.
>*****************
>none of the GT ship modules have this listed as a component, neither do any
>of the other versions of Traveller mention it.
>
        Again, hypothetical "how-it-might-work" part of the hypothetical
"how-it-might-work" overall system.  
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:24:22 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: NightHawk G:T fighter

At 05:11 PM 19/11/98 +0200, you wrote:
>On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, Ian or Katts wrote:
>
> 
>> Finally, has anyone looked into building a combustion laser or other
>> distant-effect missile warhead in Gurps ?
>> 
> I sincerely hope so, because the contact warheads in CT and GT are
>impossible.
> 2 reasons:
> 1) Scoring a contact hit on a less than 100m target from 
>15000- 300 000km away is just not plausible (like trying to hit an F-14
>with a homing missile from several thousand klicks, don´t think so)
>
> 2) If you somehow did manage to score that contact hit, the result would
>not be this or that amount of damage, the target would be _vaporized_ (You
>wouldn´t even need a warhead, the kinetic enrgy several tons of metal
>moving 10-20 km/s would do the trick nicely) 
>
        Hi, Eppu!
        The modern "Sidewinder" and I beleive "Sparrow" missiles *rarely*
hit the target...  they have proximity radars that det the missle near the
target and put about 2700 1" ball-bearing-type projectiles (Sidewinder) into
the area and try and shred the target.
        Any reason why this wouldn't work in CT?  Given the kinetic energy
for any one of those projectiles, you'd still punch holes all over the hull.
The HE is just there to spray the shrapnel;  this is also a good explanation
for the 1D hits effects of missiles in CT (non-High Guard)....  how close
was it when it went off, so how much shrapnel did you soak?
        Or am I missing something wildly obvious here?
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:10:30 -0500
From: Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil>
Subject: Re: Shivva Bridge / Fighters / Jump Drives

This looks really good Paul, if you are looking at it from the
underside....  Port is left, and Starboard right, unless the Zho's do it
backwards to confuse the impis.....

Greg

Paul Schirf wrote:
> 
> Still a work in progress, I'd really like some comments on the
> main deck of the Shivva...
> 
> http://www.PerkWorks.com/traveller/downloads/ShivvaDeckB.gif
> 
> Paul@Schirf.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:31:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Cook <markc@peak.org>
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

Marc Miller <CardSharks@aol.com> writes:

> In a message dated 11/18/98 6:18:16 PM Central Standard Time, markc@peak.org
> writes:
> 
> <<  Five minutes later and you're on the Red Line headed
>  for Brooklyn. >>
> 
> Maybe we should post a police detail in Brooklyn and just arrest anyone
> getting off there?

That would probably reduce crime in NYC by 50%. :^)

        - Mark C.
          Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy
          EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75
          Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR
          NRA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)
          Front Sight First Family member #1

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 mark f. cook * mark cook consulting *  shoestring graphics & printing
 2055 s.w. whiteside dr. * corvallis, or, 97333-1406 * markc@ssgfx.com
 Phone: 541-753-2732      Fax: 541-753-2738       http://www.ssgfx.com
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    > I believe that "decimation" originated with the Roman legions.

    Of course it originated with the Romans! Who else would _need_
    a word that means "kill every tenth person"?  - Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:45:48 -0500
From: "Bob Sanders" <bsanders@amghome.com>
Subject: RE: Variant wounding systems?

From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
I'm trying to decide whether to run under GURPS: Traveller, MT, or CT rules.
For CT I used to use Striker modified by a relevant JTAS article for
partially
penetrating hits; if I don't use G:T or MT I'll probably use a chart giving
a -1D damage modifier for most of the extremities (per DA:6), and a +1D for
the
head and possibly for part of the thorax. In either case, criticals will
basically
do double damage, so a basic CT SA round could easily do 4-8 D (3+1,
doubled?)
on a head hit. <splat!>

  Even a munchkin could start to evolve after a few of those...

  What sort of location/bleeding rules did you devise?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I reply:

Simple once you get the hang of it, I have a chart that uses 2D6 twice.
Roll, and look at the chart.

Ex: here is the chest location chart.

6-8	CHEST
	2	 Cardiac        	*Kill*
	3	 Artery         	10+14
	4-5	 Trachea        	7+10
	6-8	 General        	6
	9-10	 Ribs		4
	11	 Lungs		9
	12	 Artery		9+4

if you roll a 6-8 it is a hit in the chest, roll again, and see where in the
chest.  If you roll a 2... KIA.  If you roll a 3 a major artery is hit for
an additional 10 points of damage, plus 14 points per turn in bleeding.
Better hope a medic is near to stop the bleeding!

Any hit without a +# next too it you take only one point of damage per turn.

It seems rules heavy as I write this, but in combat it moves really fast.
Most players roll 4 dice. 2 white dice for the general location, and 2 red
for the specific area.  Then roll the damage.

I wanted a system that mimics some aspects of real life, without being too
slow.  And deadly enough that most players avoided combat whenever possible.

I have found that as soon as a PC is hit, the player starts screaming for
another PC with medic skills to get there ASAP.  I have had PC's get into
arguments about who should receive medial attention first.  IMHO this is
VERY realistic.  Having been in that situation once or twice.

Bob

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:48:29 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@shell.rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Shivva Bridge / Fighters / Jump Drives

 
> This looks really good Paul, if you are looking at it from the
> underside....  Port is left, and Starboard right, unless the Zho's do it
> backwards to confuse the impis.....
 
Way back when all I knew was CT, I read HG a liitle less literally.
I would look at the factor of various weapons systems, and I assumed
that there were bigger and smaller versions sometimes to get
different factors (like 1 10 ton turret in place of a number of
smaller ones).

In TNE+ (FFS & FFS2) I would look at the TL of the Zho navy, and
design weapons that *worked well* at that TL. Typical published
material has been to cram a crappy laser into a 3 ton TNE turret for
the Zhos when a 4 ton turret could have a good weapon. Why would we
expect Zho weapons to be compatable with Imperial ones? (or Vargr,
or Aslan, etc).

I'd assume that current (TL15) Imperial standards are such that TL
13-14 Imperial stuff has be refitted with smaller TL-15 sized
weapons so that repairs are simpler. When max Imperial tech was 13,
I bet the weapons were actually bigger than the new standards (IMHO,
IMTU, YMMV :-)

I'd like to see a nice overview of Zho doctrine (naval) and really
look at making them (and other aliens) have ships that feel
different than Imperial stuff.

- -Merrick

PS-the ship looks kinda cool.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:51:29 -0500
From: "Bob Sanders" <bsanders@amghome.com>
Subject: RE: The Beyond

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:13:21 -0800
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: The Beyond

     This was great!  Would you consider bringing the time line up to 1201
for those of us who play TNE?  Or at least provide some ideas as to how
they would have dealt with the Rebellion, and the Virus.  Where exactly is
this sector located?  Do you have a map for it?  And the most important
question, could I see the map for use in a small project I'm working on?  I
need a place like this with the history shown it would be perfect.  I hope
you post more regarding this sector.


From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Beyond

Leo Hale wrote:

>Where exactly is this sector located?

one sector rimward and one sector spinward of the Spinward Marches

>Do you have a map for it?

copyright 1981 by Paranoia Press, Inc.  Current owner Chuck Kallenbach
II ???

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>..

I will post more as I complete more, if you want.

However, while I used the basic info from the Paranoia Press, I have
converted the map to fit in the TDG map that was published in one of their
subliments.  I am not sure which one, I think it was the rats and cats.  It
showed a large overview of that area.

Some of the races I have fit/converted into what I think is reasonable.

Bob

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:54:01 -0500
From: "Bob Sanders" <bsanders@amghome.com>
Subject: The Beyond Races: Floriani

Floriani:
The Florinai are a minor human race native to Floria/Yggdrsil (Trojan Reach
Sector). They are notable for their dimorphism. The ruling group, the
Barnai, is short, weak and intelligent. The workforce, the Feskals are
larger, stronger, more numerous but less intelligent. Although stories of
slavery and exploitation have reached the Empire, the truth is that the two
sub races have a symbiotic relationship in which one group is dependent on
what the other does for its existence. The two groups cannot interbreed.
Florinai society is a fairly non-artistic, conformist society. It has
developed in odd fashion. Florinai have developed high tech weapons and war
ships. However, their skill in the life sciences is fairly low tech. There
are those that say that since those are exposed to hazards are not of the
same subrace as the doctors that medical research has been an after thought.
The Florinai have been at war with the Aslan for many years. Their culture
is becoming channeled into efforts to fight the war. (See Trojan Reaches
Subsector for more information)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1161
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, November 19 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1162



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

The Beyond Races: Katanga Empire
Mil SF scenario
Re: .22 cal.
Re: NightHawk Fighter (TL 12) [12?]
re: Smuggling
Re: Experience
Re: Geography of North America
Re: Experience
Re: Experience
Re: Shiiva Deckplans
Re: NightHawk Fighter (TL 12) [12?]
Re: NightHawk G:T fighter
Re: The Beyond
Re: NightHawk G:T fighter
Re: NightHawk G:T fighter
Re: NightHawk G:T fighter
Races
Re: Experience
Re: Geography of North America
Re: Smuggling
Re: NightHawk G:T fighter

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:56:11 -0500
From: "Bob Sanders" <bsanders@amghome.com>
Subject: The Beyond Races: Katanga Empire

Katanga Empire:
A human Religious Theocracy native to Katanga (2103 A7789DG-A M Hi In).
Several hundred years ago Katanga was settled by followers of the Drak-Arr
Faith. Their unpopular views had gotten them chased out of the Central
Imperial Worlds. In 1109 missionaries capitalized on the fears of the Sred
Ni advances and started massive uprisings on (*****) and (*****). They now
control four planets in the subsector, and are actively sending missionaries
out into the sector.  Many planets have instituted policies restricting
their travel.  However, this has only encouraged their followers.
The Drak-Arr followers believe in Dualism, two mutually antagonistic gods
that are the principal leaders of Good and Evil. Constant devotion is
required, as every word, deed, act or thought is considered a religious act
and is monitored by the Gods. The words of the good god, Drak, are
pronounced by oracles and profits who are controlled by the priesthood. The
religion is open to any human, but is very intolerant of any other sophant
races, in particular, the Sred Ni. Reincarnation is only possible if the
individual dies in a deeply religious act. The greatest act of all is to die
in battle with an alien race. Martial skills are encouraged.
These people believed that the human condition can and should be improved.
They advocate the use of eugenics and gene manipulation to produce a
superior human. Marriage and children are tightly controlled by the
religious leaders. In the past hundred years they have experienced varying
degrees of success.  Some of the followers have proven to be exceptionally
gifted physically or mentally.  Rumors of horribly disfigured mutants hidden
away or killed by the government remain unproved.
Armed Forces: At TL 10 the Kantanga are not a threat military to any major
power in the beyond. However, the message that their missionaries are
carrying is very persuasive (especially the closer you get to Sred Ne
space). Once the Church has its grip in the society of a planet, it has
proven very difficult to stop the eventual fall of the government. The
Kantanga Defense Force is a loose collection of conscripts built around an
elite force of warriors. The average TL of the military conscripts is 8. The
elite force varies between TL 10-14.
Navy: The empire started with very little in the way of fleet elements, but
has started on a crash ship building and buying program. Through some very
devious underground contacts the navy was able to purchase two old
battleships from the imperials. These ships have been undergoing a refit
after sustaining heavy damage during an attempt by one of the major powers
to destroy the ships by sabotage before they became fully operational. Even
in their weakened condition they were able to turn the tide of the battle
over (******), the latest planet to fall under the KE, and destroy a fleet
of Star Mercs hired by the Marrakesh Trade Association to protect the
system. The rest of the fleet consists of a combination of merchants that
have been refitted and small (100-600) ton warships. Katanga itself is
defended by a large collection of TL-11 SDBs. The Empire is having a hard
time keeping the boats in action due to a shortage of spare parts, and is
willing to pay top-credit for anyone who is willing to sell the components.
These boats have been able to stop any concentrated effort to crush the
religious uprising by the exiled government.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 03:27:14 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Mil SF scenario

Battlestar Potemkin??

Alan Bradley
 alanb@elf.brisnet.com.au

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:15:22 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

>Data point:
>
>A few years back in Oregon, some "hunting budies" got drunk and tried
>the William Tell bit. The guy with the beercan on his head wound up
>with an arrow thru the eye and all the way to the back of his skull!
>
>Amazingly, he survived with no serious damage other than the loss of
>the eye. This was partly because he and his buddies were bright enough
>to *not* try to move the arrowe. They just laid him on his back in a
>truck and ran him to the hospital.

Anybody trying "the Wilhelm Tell bit" is immune to brain damage for obvious
reasons.


/Anders Backman
Game developer and Lead Kibitzer at Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:10:33 -0500
From: Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil>
Subject: Re: NightHawk Fighter (TL 12) [12?]

"N. Eric Phillips" wrote:

> In 1114 the Imperial Navy ordered a top secret design for an advanced
> fighter design for special operations. Specified design parameters included:
snip
> The desire of the NightHawk program was the result of these goals. The
> mission profiles are limited but essential to Imperial security: remain
snip
> The NightHawk fighter fulfills this need. On 020-1120 the first NightHawk
> squadron was deployed for defense purposes with the 212th Fleet at Jewell.
> This program is highly classified and the Navy denies any knowledge of the
> NightHawk fighter.
> 
> NIGHTHAWK FIGHTER (TL 12)
snip

I can't agree.  IMO, this presupposes that the Imperium does not have
skunkworks-like top secret research facilities supporting the Imperial
Forces to construct "advanced" fighters at the highest levels.  IMTU,
the Imperium would build this "top secret...advanced fighter" at TL 15,
not TL 12.  I don't believe that the designers would be willing to
sacrifice 3 tech levels on missions that are "essential to Imperial
security".  

At 1120, Imperial opponents are what, TL 14 pushing 15?  And we are just
now fielding a TL 12 fighter against them in an essential role?  I
wouldn't think so.  I'd start looking for the kickbacks to the Admiral
in charge of procurement....

The Count

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:09:02 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Smuggling

Michael Vaillancourt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
        I personally have always had a problem with the "wooden containers
in space" idea.  We rarely ship that way now...  break-bulk is so out of
fashion it is stupid.  You put the "wooden container filled with pool-ball
fruit" into a spaceflight-rate modular container (akin to the way we do it
in the RealWorld(tm)) and the recorder/logger is integral to the container.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
A Free Trader has to able to take anything - standard shipping containers
when they are available, large machinery pieces, locally-produced
shipment crates/boxes/barrels, even shrinkwrapped palletized loads.
If the local wine comes in wooden casks hauled by furry quadrapeds,
you take it.

All-container routes are snapped up by the big boys, the megacorp and
wannabee megacorp shipping lines. As has been said many times,
such companies live in an entirely different universe (with respect to
conditions of doing business) than any Free Trader crew. How many
shipping containers do they put on the packet boat/ferry that runs
between St. Thomas and St. John in the US Virgin Islands? IIRC,
out of several dozen places in the US Virgin Islands where you need to
move cargo, one (perhaps two) can handle containerized cargo. The rest
make do.

Perhaps both systems can exist. The DOC&TRR* inspector might
happily walk into the Cargo Master's office on a _Gargantua_ class
Super Cargo Transport, plug his palmtop into a scanner and check
a hundred thousand tons of cargo in two minutes with the shipping
container monitors. Then he hops into his pinnace, and with dire
trepidation approaches a Free Trader just in from the frontier. The
inspector knows he has two or three hours of work ahead of him,
checking low-tech labels (or even opening crates) in a dim, chilly
100-ton cargo bay. Gazing with resignation at a pile of ship's papers,
some on data chips, some on hardcopy, a few bills of lading scribed
on animal skins. <G>

*DOC&TRR: Insert your own favorite annoying Impie customs official 
here. "Ducal Office, Customs & Trade Regulation of Regina", called
"Docs" or "Cargo Doctors". "Doctoring your papers" is slang for bribing
a Regina custom's official, similar themed slang is used for attracting
their attention. "Major Surgery" is not considered a good thing in
this case. ;)


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:20:51 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Experience

In a message dated 11/19/98 3:17:02 AM Central Standard Time, pc@PerkWorks.com
writes:

<<  why not retain the experience points from the
 non-advancing
 skills.  >>

First, experience is really about experience rather than evenness. If the most
used skill is pilot, then that is really what the experience process produced.
If all this character does is pilot really well, then he becomes the grand old
man of piloting after 20 years onthejob. If he is a well rounded character,
then experience helps round him out.

Also note that there is some opportunity for choice under the Life Pursuit
phrasing.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:20:56 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Geography of North America

In a message dated 11/19/98 12:30:27 AM Central Standard Time,
stevedaniels@portcaddo.com writes:

<< And don't forget Denmark's Greenland. >>

Clearly that's not part of North America. Its an island (like Iceland).

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:20:53 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Experience

In a message dated 11/19/98 2:54:07 AM Central Standard Time,
shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca writes:

<< Something like this would avoid the risk that the best "fill in the blank"
 (pilot, engineer, medic) among the players will gain a level per year in
their
 main  skill and quickly cause a resemblance amongst the PC party to your
 favourite Trek versions bridge crew* :) >>

The phrasing is important and stresses the importance of a good GM and a
personal strategy for skill use for each character.

"At the end of every game session, the game master awards EPs. After
evaluating the game activities, the game master awards one EP to each
character, based on the skill which was best or most effectively used by the
character during that session. Each player records the EP for his or her
character...."

"best or most effectively used" can clearly be something other than "the most
used" or "the skill with the highest level." So the Scout with Pilot-8 and
Bribery-1 might find himself forced into a gunfight this episode and
frantically defending himself and his friends with a Shotgun (default skill
Shotgun-0. At the end of the episode, the GM says "That shotgun battle was
great (etc)." and awards Shotgun-1*.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:20:52 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Experience

In a message dated 11/19/98 2:54:07 AM Central Standard Time,
shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca writes:

<<   A possible alternative might be to award a "level increase" each year,
without
 recording skill usage.  >>

Simply awarding (rather than earning) isn't really experience. And since the
more or less accepted standard is 1 skill level per year (plus one every four
years), your thought would fall short.

I'm trying to map experience against 1 skill per year, whichmeans that
characters can keep getting skills at the same rate (more or less) they earned
them when in Prior Career.
`
Marc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:24:00 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Shiiva Deckplans

>The plans use 1 yard GURPS hexgrids, and don't show a power
>plant.

Why don't they show a power plant? I know that GURPS:Traveller design
sequence doesn't explicitly include the plant, but it's really still there...

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:18:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: NightHawk Fighter (TL 12) [12?]

Greg Smith writes:
>> I can't agree.  IMO, this presupposes that the Imperium does not have
> skunkworks-like top secret research facilities supporting the Imperial
> Forces to construct "advanced" fighters at the highest levels.  IMTU,
> the Imperium would build this "top secret...advanced fighter" at TL 15,
> not TL 12.  I don't believe that the designers would be willing to
> sacrifice 3 tech levels on missions that are "essential to Imperial
> security". 

This is GURPS tech level, not traveller tech level.  GURPS TL 15 is somewhere
around traveller TL 20-21.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:27:10 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: NightHawk G:T fighter

> I sincerely hope so, because the contact warheads in CT and GT are
>impossible.

In addition, under G:T as published, lasers are sufficiently effective
in point defence that it's nearly impossible to get a hit with a contact
missile (which is as it should be.) 

> 1) Scoring a contact hit on a less than 100m target from 
>15000- 300 000km away is just not plausible (like trying to hit an F-14
>with a homing missile from several thousand klicks, don4t think so)

I'm not sure this is always true - missile can have much higher accelerations,
and ship movements are somewhat predictable - but it might be true for G:T
missiles; since they're apparently communicator-controlled only, with no
terminal homing, they're operating with a second or so of lightspeed lag
since all their terminal control comes from the firing ship...

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 03:49:19 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: The Beyond

I've got the original Beyond and Vanguard Reaches books from Paranoia
Press.  I don't think they can really be considered canon. (D'oh!)  They
are particularly bad in the following respects:

1.  They have Aslan and Vargr worlds with non-Trokh and Gvegh names.  Easy
to fix.
2.  They have Ringworlds, Sphereworlds and Rosettes.  GDW/Marc's fault for
listing them as options...
3.  They have lots of sparsely described minor races - more than I would
usually allow, but not necessarily more than T5 would, according to the
material Marc has posted.
4.  They don't have a TL cap.  TLs above 15 are relatively common.
5.  GDW renamed one of their interstellar states that extended into Foreven
sector (Assignment Vigilante - an MT adventure).

Most of these are fixable.  The easiest way is to assume the Aslan overran
them in 1113-1120 or so, and recreate any world you don't like as an Aslan
one.

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:25:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: NightHawk G:T fighter

N. Eric Phillips writes:
> If I'm running a game I want the realization of military overspending and
> thought. Laminate armor costs more but- hell- we got the government coffers
> open. Let's spend it. Cutting costs doesn't belong in a realistic military
> simulation. Keeping the price down is for the civilians- only they care
> about it. So, whats a few MCr's for a few tenths of a G accel.

Bah.  Use advanced composite armor, it's just as light and costs half as much,
and it's weaknesses aren't a big factor in space combat.  Then use Vehicles
instead of the standard rules.  Now, for a truly overdesigned fighter, try this
one ;).  Impervious to TL 12 lasers from the frontal arc, mostly impervious to
TL 10 lasers from the sides, can out-accelerate TL 12 missiles, totally
impossible to get a lockon with active sensors, etc...

TL 12 light fighter (10 spaces)

Subassemblies: Body with superior streamlining.  No other subassemblies.
Body Features: Superior streamlining
Drive: 5 x 200 ton vector super reactionless thrusters (each 20 MW, 250
    HP), 140 ton TL 13 contragrav unit (280 kilowatts)
Weapons: one 405 MJ pulse Xaser in a fully stabilized casement mount
    (1.08 GJ/shot), one slow autoloading 250mm missile launcher, rated for
    300 lb missiles, storage for 10 250mm missiles.
Instruments and Electronics: one extreme range scrambled radio, two very
    long range scrambled radios, two very long range lasercomms, 7000 mile
    AESA with air search option (scan 33/39, 1.75 MW), 4500 mile PESA
    (scan 32/38), 3*500 mile PESA (cover sides and back, scan 26/32), 2000
    mile radscanner (scan 30), two IFF, two inertial navigators, level 10
    deceptive jammer, hardened dedicated genius microframe (targeting +10),
    three hardened microframes (C8), two terminals.
Software: datalink, computer navigation, targeting +10, targeting +9 * 2,
    transmission profiling, damage control, encryption/8, translation.
Miscellaneous Equipment: compact fire suppression
Controls: computerized; controls are duplicated for both crew.
Crew: two roomy crewstations with G-seats, crashwebs, gravity webs, and
    full life support.  Occupancy: short.
Power: 101 MW TL 11 fusion power plant, 54 GJ energy bank.  Power is 
    _very_ gradually depleted if using active sensors and full thrust
    (requires 15+ hours), otherwise indefinate.  Can fire 50 shots on
    batteries; requires 9 minutes of dedicated fusion plant power to
    recharge fully.
Spaces: 1644 cf access space, 1.05 cf waste space.
Frame: 5000 cf, 2000 sf.  Extra-heavy, superior streamlining.
Frame Options: heavy compartmentalization.
Hit Points: body 12,000.
Armor: PD 4, DR 1800 advanced composite; front has 4/3800.
Surface Features: sealed, instant chameleon, radical emissions cloaking,
    radical stealth, radiation shielding (PF 10,000), thermal
    superconducting armor (per some discussed errata, _only_ adds DR 200
    (increases DR to 2000/4000 against lasers and fusion guns).
Statistics: unloaded weight 177,343 lb, usual cargo 4000 lb, loaded
    weight 181,543 lb (90.8 tons), $20.1 million.  HT 12, maintenance
    interval 4 hours.  Size +6.
Performance: no ground performance.  Can float, but water performance
    largely irrelevant.  Can submerge with vectored thrust directed
    downwards, maximum speed 50 mph, crush depth 45 miles or 7300 
    atmospheres.  Aerodynamic drag 400, thrust 2 million, maximum speed
    6100 mph, acceleration 220 mph, aSR 5.  Space perfomance 11.01 Gs.
Signatures: Visual +3 (+0 if stationary), Passive -2 (-8 atmospheric),
    Active -18.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:42:52 -0500
From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
Subject: Re: NightHawk G:T fighter

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 17:11:21 +0200 (EET)
From: Eppu Tuominen <eptitu@utu.fi>
Subject: Re: NightHawk G:T fighter
On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, Ian or Katts wrote:

> Finally, has anyone looked into building a combustion laser or other
> distant-effect missile warhead in Gurps ?
>
 I sincerely hope so, because the contact warheads in CT and GT are
impossible.
******************
I am, hoping to get them into the Starships book.


 2 reasons:
 1) Scoring a contact hit on a less than 100m target from
15000- 300 000km away is just not plausible (like trying to hit an F-14
with a homing missile from several thousand klicks, don?t think so)
**********
why not?...if the missile is command controled until you get within a few
kicks the sensor head should pick up an F-14 just fine.


 2) If you somehow did manage to score that contact hit, the result would
not be this or that amount of damage, the target would be _vaporized_ (You
wouldn?t even need a warhead, the kinetic enrgy several tons of metal
moving 10-20 km/s would do the trick nicely)
******************8
This missiles are only 300 lb, to get several tons of metal involved here
you would need  40 or so missiles.  and 26.8km sec is 2 hexes per turn (a
very low velocity)  this does 6dx100 damage x velocity (2) x 6 tons of
metal (40 missiles) = 168,000 points of damage, enought to vaporize (11xht)
a ship up to 256 dTons.....

so therfor the missiles in GT do enough damage according to your
definition.

a side note:  One missile with a velocity of 80 hexes per turn (1,073 kps)
will do the same damage but is harder to get a hit with.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:35:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: NightHawk G:T fighter

Bruce Alan Macintosh writes:
 
> I'm not sure this is always true - missile can have much higher
> accelerations, and ship movements are somewhat predictable - but it might
> be true for G:T missiles; since they're apparently communicator-controlled
> only, with no terminal homing, they're operating with a second or so of
> lightspeed lag since all their terminal control comes from the firing
> ship... 

This is a 'feature' of the broken sensor rules in GURPS.  You can generally
resolve it by tossing on a low-power LLTV for terminal guidance, though.

As for hitting with a missile (with a speed probably not exceeding 300
kilometers per second, and typically not exceeding 100) that's probably harder
than GT makes it, but its hardly impossible, it doesn't really require
precision any higher than your average modern space probe (it's a smaller area,
but it's also a _much_ shorter range), and it's not drastically above
experimental ballistic defense interceptor missiles (and is several tech levels
higher...).

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:44:32 -0500
From: "Bob Sanders" <bsanders@amghome.com>
Subject: Races

I have heard that someone has a minor races template file, or builder.  Any
information on this would be helpful.

Thanks

Bob Sanders

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:42:27 -0500
From: "Paul Schirf" <pc@PerkWorks.com>
Subject: Re: Experience

<<  why not retain the experience points from the non-advancing skills.  >>

> First, experience is really about experience rather than evenness. 
> If the most used skill is pilot, then that is really what the experience 
> process produced.  If all this character does is pilot really well, then 
> he becomes the grand old man of piloting after 20 years onthejob. 
> If he is a well rounded character, then experience helps round him out.

Yes, but suppose the person IS well rounded... or try to be.  If the player
happens to do one thing just slightly more often than his/her other
skills then he/she will not appear to be well rounded.  Imagine
a player who, five years straight, ended up with a close spread
like Gambling-42*, Pilot-42*, Dancing-43*.  Looking at the character
(Dancing-6, Pilot-1, Gambling-1), you'd think that all the guy can do is 
dance, because that would be the only skill that has advanced.

On the other hand, imagine a real card shark.  Gambling-40*, Pilot-10*, 
Bribery-8* or a similar ratio five years straight will give you a dealer
who can also fly better than the average novice (Gambling-5, Pilot-2,
Bribery-1).

If that seems too even, why not half the unused points?  Or allowing
the player to decide how many points of the unused EPs are to be saved.
Sounds like something that needs modeled and play tested.

Paul

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 17:48:47 +0000 (GMT)
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Geography of North America

On Thu, 19 Nov 1998 CardSharks@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 11/19/98 12:30:27 AM Central Standard Time,
> stevedaniels@portcaddo.com writes:
> 
> << And don't forget Denmark's Greenland. >>
> 
> Clearly that's not part of North America. Its an island (like Iceland).
> 
> Marc
> 

Is Britain not part of Europe ? Is Tasmainia not part of Australia ? etc
etc etc ....

Ewan

P.S. I thought Icelan  lay on the fault between Europe and North America,
which is why it is so volcanic. Please correct me if I am wrong.

	Ewan Quibell
	Data Communications Technician        The Game's afoot:
	Computer Centre                       Follow your spirit, and apon
	University of Brighton                  this charge
                                              Cry 'God for Harry, England,
	E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              and Saint George !'

                                                    Henry V 3:1
	#include<stddisclamer.h>                    W. Shakespeare

	My spelling is entierly due to dyslexia, typoes and poetic license

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 13:04:06 -0500
From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
Subject: Re: Smuggling

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:16:34 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Smuggling
At 10:53 AM 19/11/98 -0500, you wrote:

>How big are the shipyards in Halifax? Build ships of just repair them?
>Consider how the customs department there may vary with something else in
>the same TL.  For example:  The Port of Rio de Janeiro which has both
>shipyards and a naval base(the yards aren't that big, so call it a B
port).
>customs is not so tight there, and a few years ago (c. 1990) they caught
>some inspectors taking bribes to pass cargoes.
        We can build small warships locally, and can do dry-dock service on
two costal-size frieghters at once.  Modest size naval base.  BIG harbour
area for parking.
**************8
Sounds like Class A to me.


>>        Nope... you are thinking 20thC tech.  Every cargo container has a
>>WORM drive on it that has recorded every place it has ever been...
>>micro-reciever tied to a dedicated computer system in the cartridge
>****************
>Nope..........you are thinking more than 20thC tech.  No cargo containers
>built on TL5 planets would have these...where is you reference for this?
>
        Hmmm...  my "Canon"-detector went berserk.
************
sure did.  I personal look for soultions to problems rather than more
problems in the universe.


        No, I don't.  I was a possible suggestion.
        However, there would be, IMHO, some automated way of logging this
kind of traffic at a starport.  The postulation is that they can build jump
drives and computer programs to handle them...  this oughta be childs play.
*************
And it is for one world with near instant communicatons.  When applied to
11000 worlds with years of lag between some of them, it is a bit much to
expect them to have a compleatly compatible system like this from one end
to the other.


>"listens" for the "You are at <PORTNAME>.  The date is <DATE:TIME>" signal
>that is transmmited every 15 mins by the starport authority.  The
container
>records the first time it hears the signal, every time the container is
>opened or closed, everytime the wieght of the container changes by more
>than
>5% and the extrapolated DATE:TIME after it *misses* a time check (ie: it
>has
>been loaded into a starship, etc).
>***********
>and at many ports it will never 'hear' such a thing, how many class E port
>have this?
        How many cargoes does the merchantman want automatically searched
because there is a gaping hole in the container's log records?  IMTU,
Starport Authorities all answer to an off-planet body.  If there is a
control tower there, there is a transponder.  In the case of E and X ports,
the issue is smuggling in, not out, and the local authorities have to deal
with it however they can.
************
all of them if he trades at the low class ports at all. then they will stop
searching him because he is clean every time and they spend all day every
3-4 weeks searching his ship. "hey its the 'Grotto Gallumpper' Again, I'm
glad its not my turn to search those baskets of wing-fish"
"Yeh, Jones is going to be ticked, he had them last month"


>Also there are may ways to spoof this.  Vary the grav plates
>until the memory fills up for one.....record the starport signal and
>rebrodcast that in your hold. even swap computers on containers......or
>leave them open all the time, and vary the grav plates to keep the weight
>within 5%.

        Hmmm...  There goes my "Canon"-detector again.
        The question is how much does the government IYTU *care* about
smuggling.  That will indicate *how much* money they want to spend on the
issue.
************
IMTU the Imperium doesn't care at all.  The only thing thay care about is
nukes and slaves, any customs patroling will have to be done by the
individual worlds (some of which are actually in lowgrade conflict with one
another. So they don't spend *any* mony on customs patrol.



        I personally have always had a problem with the "wooden containers
in space" idea.  We rarely ship that way now...  break-bulk is so out of
fashion it is stupid.  You put the "wooden container filled with pool-ball
fruit" into a spaceflight-rate modular container (akin to the way we do it
in the RealWorld(tm)) and the recorder/logger is integral to the container.
********
for the big ships I agree 100%, but is it allways done that way on the
costal freighters?
the ones most like the 'PC Sized' ship the characters get?


        20thC piezo electric technology is almost to the point where you
can
use it to notice defelction is wieght.  Add 3+ TLs and its a non-issue.
Same thing for the weight of the computer.  The radio systems are easy
again
when you can can build a 5000 meter range commlink wieghing 100grams at
TL8.
***********
but what is the cost of this?  when you buy cargo on spec does it come with
containers?  if so how much cheaper is it without the containers?

- ------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 13:26:12 -0500
From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
Subject: Re: NightHawk G:T fighter

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:24:22 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: NightHawk G:T fighter
At 05:11 PM 19/11/98 +0200, you wrote:
>On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, Ian or Katts wrote:

        Any reason why this wouldn't work in CT?  Given the kinetic energy
for any one of those projectiles, you'd still punch holes all over the
hull.
The HE is just there to spray the shrapnel;  this is also a good
explanation
for the 1D hits effects of missiles in CT (non-High Guard)....  how close
was it when it went off, so how much shrapnel did you soak?
        Or am I missing something wildly obvious here?
****************
works fine, and is one of the warhead options on my list.

A cannister load with  1 lb. balls doing 20d (5) x Velocity damage per
ball. (still working on an eazy way to figure the number of hits. average
damage 50 per ball with one hex velocity. good low theh anti orbit weapon.
also a subtraction from the PD roll.
A behive load with a better armor divisor.
A multiple warhead missle (warhead 6 warheads, each about 20 lb.with a
small seeker head) doing 6dx10 (5) per hit
Standard nukes (better be an Imperial Warship if you have *these*) I need
to buy HT 3ed to get the new nukes in space rules.
Det lasers (Ditto) very expensive

Allong with dedicated PD lasers, and other low tech PD options (chainguns,
railguns and anti missile missiles)


As to the nighthawk fighter, I would definatly give it a laser so that it
can have some PD, or just one missile *will* take it out (just 1 hex of
velocity requires 7 rolls on the major damage table = dead fighter).

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1162
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, November 19 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1163



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: .22 cal.
exotic assasin weapons anyone?
Re: Geography of North America
Re: NightHawk Fighter (TL 12) [12?]
Re: Smuggling
Re: .22 cal.
Why I *hate* Class E starports
New Star Wars trailer
Re: NightHawk G:T fighter
Re: NightHawk G:T fighter
Re: Geography of North America
Re: Lasers and Windows etc 
Re: NightHawk Fighter (TL 12) [12?]
RE: The Beyond
Re: Longbow II
Re: Geography of North America
Where Rats & Cats?
Re: First Contact future history
Re: Geography of North America
Re: NightHawk G:T fighter
Re: .22 cal.
Re: Solomani Generals (humour?)
Beyond the Vargard Reaches
Re: Vargr On The Big Screen

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 13:30:26 EST
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

In a message dated 11/17/98 17:19:53 PM Pacific Standard Time,
gmgoffin@yahoo.com writes:

<< From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
 
 I have not heard of someone being killed with a single .22 cal bullet
 except through blood loss (not receiving medical attention). 
 
 ************************************
 Talk to some cops when you get a chance.  A .22 can pierce the skull,
 especially through the eyes, temples, or palate, but even through the
 thick parts, too.   >>

	I can speak from some small amount of experience...when I worked for the
Maricopa County Medical Examiner in 92, I picked up an individual who
accidentally shot himself in the big toe w/ a .22...he died on the phone w/
the 911 operator.  On the opposite end of the spectrum, I accidently shot my
best friend w/ a .22 LR in the right arm...he was chasing me around his house
clocking me over the head w/ the cast 4 hours later.

DustyLV769

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:37:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com>
Subject: exotic assasin weapons anyone?

From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

Ob. Trav. exotic assasin weapons anyone?
***********************************************
My favorite is the drone grav dart from Dune (I don't remember its
real name).  It's a very small drone vehicle, maybe a little bigger
than a fountain pen, with a sharp point, an anti-grav drive and a
relatively simple sensor suite (maybe just visual/IR).  It's remotely
controlled.  The operator tries to drive it into the target's body.  I
thought the sequence in the movie was very well done.

- --Glenn
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 13:32:54 -0500
From: Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil>
Subject: Re: Geography of North America

Ewan Quibell wrote:
>
> Is Britain not part of Europe ? 

Not until just in the past few years!

The Count

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 13:49:53 -0500
From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
Subject: Re: NightHawk Fighter (TL 12) [12?]

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:10:33 -0500
From: Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil>
Subject: Re: NightHawk Fighter (TL 12) [12?]
"N. Eric Phillips" wrote:

>
> NIGHTHAWK FIGHTER (TL 12)
snip
I can't agree.  IMO, this presupposes that the Imperium does not have
skunkworks-like top secret research facilities supporting the Imperial
Forces to construct "advanced" fighters at the highest levels.  IMTU,
the Imperium would build this "top secret...advanced fighter" at TL 15,
not TL 12.  I don't believe that the designers would be willing to
sacrifice 3 tech levels on missions that are "essential to Imperial
security".
At 1120, Imperial opponents are what, TL 14 pushing 15?  And we are just
now fielding a TL 12 fighter against them in an essential role?  I
wouldn't think so.  I'd start looking for the kickbacks to the Admiral
in charge of procurement....

***************
The Imperium is TL 12, the Zhos are TL 11 pushing 12.

If you would look a little closer at the design, it is for the 1120 setting
of GT.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 13:42:40 EST
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Smuggling

In a message dated 11/18/98 6:01:13 AM Pacific Standard Time,
Daniel.Mendyke@digital.com writes:

<< 	>
 	>Sounds like every free trader captain's nightmare. Not only do you
 get
 	>a soulless bureacrat looking over your ship's papers every stop,
 now
 	>you offer this soulless bureacrat a MCr40 prize if he finds (or
 creates)
 	>a big enough irregularity in your paperwork. >>

	Uncle Strephon would never allow a star system (or his own agents) to do
this:  this would definately push his "Trade Protection" button.

DustyLV769

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 13:48:40 EST
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

In a message dated 11/18/98 9:50:30 AM Pacific Standard Time,
misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca writes:

<<  Get shot in
 the leg with a .22LR, and unless it pops the cartoid, you are going to live,
 presuming medical care is available. >>

	Hmm...I guess you WOULD be in trouble if you got shot in the leg and popped
the carotid artery (which is in the neck, if my knowledge of anatomy is
correct).

	DustyLV769

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 13:02:15 -0600
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: Why I *hate* Class E starports

If you're drinking something, put it down!

You have been warned...



ABC World News WIRE: Nov. 19, 0:54 p.m. ET

World Space Station Hits Problem-Clear The Camels

BAIKONUR, Kazakhstan, Nov 19 (Reuters) - With the world
poised to enter a new era of space flight with the launch of
the first stage of an international space station, Russian
organisers had a more pressing problem -- how to clear off
the camel herders whose flock graze the launch site.  

Towering over the grassy steppes of Kazakhstan on Thursday
like a pyramid in the Egyptian desert, the first module of the
biggest and most advanced spaceship ever planned was ready
for take-off.  

The Zarya module, which will form the core of the $60  billion
International Space Station, was set for Friday's launch  into
orbit aboard a huge Proton rocket.  

But on Thursday Russian officials rushed by helicopter to  the
remote homes of local camel herders near the Baikonur base
Moscow rents from Kazakhstan to urge them to sign
documents pledging they will get out of the way before
blast-off.  

The Kazakh camel herdsmen who live near the space centre
have little to their names but their mud-brick houses, colourful
clothes and herds of shaggy, double-humped dromedaries.


ObTrav: Why do I get the feeling the universe is being run
by a Traveller referee?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:04:07 EST
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: New Star Wars trailer

	I am not sure if this will get to many people in time...

	Tonight on the CBS TV show "Access Hollywood", the new preview of the Phantom
Menace (the new SW movie) will be shown in it's entirety.  The show is on
locally here (Las Vegas, NV) at 7PM...check your local listings, and warm up
the VCR!!!  :-)

DustyLV769

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:15:30 -0500
From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
Subject: Re: NightHawk G:T fighter

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:25:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: NightHawk G:T fighter

Bah.  Use advanced composite armor, it's just as light and costs half as
much,
and it's weaknesses aren't a big factor in space combat.  Then use Vehicles
instead of the standard rules.  Now, for a truly overdesigned fighter, try
this
one ;).  Impervious to TL 12 lasers from the frontal arc, mostly impervious
to
TL 10 lasers from the sides, can out-accelerate TL 12 missiles, totally
impossible to get a lockon with active sensors, etc...
************
The only problems I see are the cost per (not really bad at 20MCr), and the
4 hour maintanace interval (12 turns in space combat), Passive sensors work
fine against it, but the not getting the +2 for active lock will hurt if
you are shooting at it.

All in all a very fine design. perfect for those black ops....
:)


TL 12 light fighter
Weapons: one 405 MJ pulse Xaser in a fully stabilized casement mount
    (1.08 GJ/shot), one slow autoloading 250mm missile launcher, rated for
    300 lb missiles, storage for 10 250mm missiles.
*************
stats the same on these as the standard ones?




Instruments and Electronics: one extreme range scrambled radio, two very
    long range scrambled radios, two very long range lasercomms, 7000 mile
    AESA with air search option (scan 33/39, 1.75 MW), 4500 mile PESA
    (scan 32/38), 3*500 mile PESA (cover sides and back, scan 26/32), 2000
    mile radscanner (scan 30), two IFF, two inertial navigators, level 10
    deceptive jammer, hardened dedicated genius microframe (targeting +10),
    three hardened microframes (C8), two terminals.
**********8
Gotta love deceptive jammers....I am working up some ECM modules.



Crew: two roomy crewstations with G-seats, crashwebs, gravity webs, and
    full life support.  Occupancy: short.
*************8
how many Gs does this cancel out?  Consider Long occupancy, as space
battles can last several hours, and fatige from short may degrade
performance.


Power: 101 MW TL 11 fusion power plant, 54 GJ energy bank.  Power is
    _very_ gradually depleted if using active sensors and full thrust
    (requires 15+ hours), otherwise indefinate.  Can fire 50 shots on
    batteries; requires 9 minutes of dedicated fusion plant power to
    recharge fully.
******************
So effective Rof in the GT spaace combat system is: 1/12 giving a RoF bonus
of +6 rather than the normal +4...




Surface Features: sealed, instant chameleon, radical emissions cloaking,
    radical stealth, radiation shielding (PF 10,000), thermal
    superconducting armor (per some discussed errata, _only_ adds DR 200
    (increases DR to 2000/4000 against lasers and fusion guns).
**************
Where is this errata posted? I used it for the battlesuits I did for Star
Mercs

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:12:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: NightHawk G:T fighter

Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com writes:

> stats the same on these as the standard ones?

Yah, I chose to use standard weapon systems rather than writing new ones.
> 
> Crew: two roomy crewstations with G-seats, crashwebs, gravity webs, and
>     full life support.  Occupancy: short.
> *************8
> how many Gs does this cancel out?  Consider Long occupancy, as space
> battles can last several hours, and fatige from short may degrade
> performance.

I assume gravity webs cancel out the same as artificial gravity -- 6 Gs.  11 G
evades are uncomfortable, but doable.  Fatigue from short-term occupancy isn't
much of a problem with large crewstations for less than 12 hours or so, and
given that fighters tend not to have bunks in them, _all_ fighters are short
occupancy.

> So effective Rof in the GT spaace combat system is: 1/12 giving a RoF bonus
> of +6 rather than the normal +4...

Depends how fast you fire, normal would probably not be above 1/60 so you can
fire for more than one turn.  If you limit yourself to 6 Gs you can fire at
1/30 indefinately.

> Where is this errata posted? I used it for the battlesuits I did for Star
> Mercs

It isn't (grumble Loren) but it's necessary to avoid having TL 11-12 combat
_completely_ broken (as in: not only can tanks not shoot through one another's
frontal armor -- they can't shoot through side armor either).

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 07:45:06 -0000
From: "Rob Hymer" <Rob@hymer.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Geography of North America

From: CardSharks@aol.com <CardSharks@aol.com>


<snip>
>
>And BTW, doesn't France have two little tiny possession islands just off
the
>Canadian Atalntic coast (Miguelite and Piqueron, or something like that?).
>
St.Pierre and Miquelon, population about 6000. Both are not possessions, but
overseas departments of France. Don't forget, guys, the invasion starts
there.

Cheers
Rob Hymer
"If I had all the money I've spent on drink, I'd spend it on drink"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 07:36:50 -0000
From: "Rob Hymer" <Rob@hymer.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Lasers and Windows etc 

- -----Original Message-----
From: David J. Golden <goldendj@pcisys.net>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: 19 November 1998 00:10
Subject: Re: Lasers and Windows etc


<snip>
>
> Vacuum dries their tongues out too much ... experienced Vargr just
>stick their noses and/or tongues on the window. Ever been in a car
>with a Siberian husky when you've got the windows closed because the
>AC is running?


This works well for Springer Spaniels,too. Smaller dog, bigger drool
problem.

Cheers
Rob Hymer
"If I had all the money I've spent on drink, I'd spend it on drink"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:10:23 -0500
From: Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil>
Subject: Re: NightHawk Fighter (TL 12) [12?]

Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com wrote:
> 
> From: Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil>

> >
> > NIGHTHAWK FIGHTER (TL 12)

snip

> ***************
> The Imperium is TL 12, the Zhos are TL 11 pushing 12.
> 
> If you would look a little closer at the design, it is for the 1120 setting
> of GT.

Yep.  Never saw anything that indicated G:T in the subject....and as I'm
not a gearhead either, just presumed T TLs.....  Sorry.

Greg

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:22:52 -0500
From: "Bob Sanders" <bsanders@amghome.com>
Subject: RE: The Beyond

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
I've got the original Beyond and Vanguard Reaches books from Paranoia
Press.  I don't think they can really be considered canon. (D'oh!)  They
are particularly bad in the following respects:

1.  They have Aslan and Vargr worlds with non-Trokh and Gvegh names.  Easy
to fix.
2.  They have Ringworlds, Sphereworlds and Rosettes.  GDW/Marc's fault for
listing them as options...
3.  They have lots of sparsely described minor races - more than I would
usually allow, but not necessarily more than T5 would, according to the
material Marc has posted.
4.  They don't have a TL cap.  TLs above 15 are relatively common.
5.  GDW renamed one of their interstellar states that extended into Foreven
sector (Assignment Vigilante - an MT adventure).

Most of these are fixable.  The easiest way is to assume the Aslan overran
them in 1113-1120 or so, and recreate any world you don't like as an Aslan
one.

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

In addition the stars are all in different places and the alliances are all
wrong.  In Rats and Cats the maps of the, as well as the large map of the
domain of deneb all show some different political alliances.

I have created a map and fixed, or "canonized" almost all of the sector.  As
well as removing almost all of the high tech, weird, ringworld type items,
etc.

I have the Aslan invading parts of the sector, but not on par with the major
invasion as depicted in MT.  I have a hard time seeing how billions of
second sons can get across the J5 route with enough force to occupy almost 2
sectors, and challenge the Domain for military might.

Bob


Bob

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:25:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Longbow II

Christopher Pratt writes:
> 
> In this section is about half a page about a MASSIVE sensor
> array called the longbow II, and mentioned briefly how it
> works and some of the limitations of it.  two questions. 
> Could anyone explain it and its advantages and limitations
> better, and could some explain why it is such a huge secret?

Well, longbow II is apparently a phased-array sensor with an effective diameter
of tens of parsecs.  The implication that jump drives are accurate enough (in
terms of range) to allow doing interferometry between observations at the ends
of a jump is...disturbing (sufficiently so that longbow II, at least in the GT
writeup, will never show up in any campaign _I'm_ running).  In any case, the
point is that you can see centimeter-sized objects in the galactic core (though
I don't htink it has a sufficient collection array for that to really be true
- -- that's just its resolution.)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:42:38 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Geography of North America

In a message dated 11/19/98 11:50:14 AM Central Standard Time,
E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk writes:

<< Is Britain not part of Europe ? >>

I am reminded of the introduction of someone or other...

May I introduce So-and-so of Britain, formerly Great Britain.

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:43:11 -0800
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Where Rats & Cats?

- ------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:51:29 -0500
From: "Bob Sanders" <bsanders@amghome.com>
Subject: RE: The Beyond

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:13:21 -0800
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: The Beyond

     This was great!  Would you consider bringing the time line up to 1201
for those of us who play TNE?  Or at least provide some ideas as to how
they would have dealt with the Rebellion, and the Virus.  Where exactly is
this sector located?  Do you have a map for it?  And the most important
question, could I see the map for use in a small project I'm working on?  I
need a place like this with the history shown it would be perfect.  I hope
you post more regarding this sector.


From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Beyond

Leo Hale wrote:

>Where exactly is this sector located?

one sector rimward and one sector spinward of the Spinward Marches

>Do you have a map for it?

copyright 1981 by Paranoia Press, Inc.  Current owner Chuck Kallenbach
II ???

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>..

I will post more as I complete more, if you want.

However, while I used the basic info from the Paranoia Press, I have
converted the map to fit in the TDG map that was published in one of their
subliments.  I am not sure which one, I think it was the rats and cats.  It
showed a large overview of that area.

Some of the races I have fit/converted into what I think is reasonable.

Bob

- ------------------------------
     Do you know where I can get a copy of this Rats & Cats from Paranoia
Press?

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 19:40:13 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: First Contact future history

 "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> wrote:

>>When did Canada annexe the USA?
>
>Of course there is the question of whether, after the first
>election, you could tell if Canada annexed the USA or the other
>way around?

Who said anything about elections? ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:51:17 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Geography of North America

CardSharks@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 11/19/98 12:30:27 AM Central Standard Time,
> stevedaniels@portcaddo.com writes:
>
> << And don't forget Denmark's Greenland. >>
>
> Clearly that's not part of North America. Its an island (like Iceland).

So then Long Island isn't part of North America either?

Hehe.

Just kidding.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:47:53 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: NightHawk G:T fighter

>This is GURPS tech level, not traveller tech level.  GURPS TL 15 is somewhere
>around traveller TL 20-21.

This could get confusing. We should adopt the convention of using "GTL" to
indicate GURPS tech levels...

Anthony Jackson writes
>TL 12 light fighter (10 spaces)
>[munchkinized death fighter snipped]
>Impervious to TL 12 lasers from the frontal arc, mostly impervious to
>TL 10 lasers from the sides, can out-accelerate TL 12 missiles, totally
>impossible to get a lockon with active sensors, etc...

We probably need some restrictions on GURPS vehicle tech for importation
into Traveller to avoid such monstrosities. For example,

>thermal
>superconducting armor (per some discussed errata, _only_ adds DR 200
>(increases DR to 2000/4000 against lasers and fusion guns).
(a) the old superconductors-protect-against-laser shtick probably doesn't
work (at least not with the superconductors we have), (b) it certainlyl
wouldn't work against highly rapidly pulsed laser, (c) it isn't very 
Traveller, and (d) it's one of those if-it-works-everyone-should-have-it
things

>Armor: PD 4, DR 1800 advanced composite; front has 4/3800.
I think I would outlaw different armour for different facings on 
principle; in practice, it's very hard for an evading ship to keep one face
always pointed at the enemy (although maybe G:T thrusters can operate
in arbitarary directions?)

>Space perfomance 11.01 Gs.
Is there a limit to G-compensation in G:Trav?

In general, the fact that you can get that much armour on a 10-ton fighter
probably means that G:T over-rates defence - imagine how much armour a 
battleship will have! Lasers and even spinal PAWs will be pretty much
completely ineffective (especially since weapons are armoured in G:T and
there doesn't seem to be much provision for surface sensor hits.)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:53:00 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

DustyLV769@aol.com wrote:

> On the opposite end of the spectrum, I accidently shot my
> best friend w/ a .22 LR in the right arm...he was chasing me around his house
> clocking me over the head w/ the cast 4 hours later.

You are not invited hunting with me.

;-)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:49:45 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Solomani Generals (humour?)

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
> 
> Solomani General #1
> Enjoys the company of an attractive young woman. Likes listening to classic
> music. Is always being fitted for a new uniform. Often says "We are not all
> barbarians you know"
 
> Solomani General #4
> Walks with a limp and wears a slightly different uniform to other generals (for
> reasons which are never explained). Has a much more casual and relaxed
> attitude than other generals and would rather be with his men. Has spent many
> happy years in the Imperium.
> 

Oh Ghod! Dominic Flandry and Cletus Grahame on the _same side_!!! (not
to mention I don't recognize who the _other_ two are, but I'll assume
they're equally scary)

Oh well, the Imperium was nice while it lasted...

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:51:23 -0800
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Beyond the Vargard Reaches

- ------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 03:49:19 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: The Beyond

I've got the original Beyond and Vanguard Reaches books from Paranoia
Press.  I don't think they can really be considered canon. (D'oh!)  They
are particularly bad in the following respects:

1.  They have Aslan and Vargr worlds with non-Trokh and Gvegh names.  Easy
to fix.
2.  They have Ringworlds, Sphereworlds and Rosettes.  GDW/Marc's fault for
listing them as options...
3.  They have lots of sparsely described minor races - more than I would
usually allow, but not necessarily more than T5 would, according to the
material Marc has posted.
4.  They don't have a TL cap.  TLs above 15 are relatively common.
5.  GDW renamed one of their interstellar states that extended into Foreven
sector (Assignment Vigilante - an MT adventure).

Most of these are fixable.  The easiest way is to assume the Aslan overran
them in 1113-1120 or so, and recreate any world you don't like as an Aslan
one.

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

- ------------------------------
     Do you know where I could score a copy of that?  I am looking for
something very much like what you describe that as being.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:52:07 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Vargr On The Big Screen

Michel Vaillancourt wrote:
> 
> At 11:11 PM 18/11/98 -0800, you wrote:
> >...
> >>One of them is the dragon-eared character from that old 'Dragon' comic
> >>strip...which name escapes me now...
> >
> >  Wormy?
> >
> 
>         Snarf, from "SnarfQuest", I believe....

YES!

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1163
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, November 19 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1164



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: NightHawk G:T fighter
Re: Where Rats & Cats?
Re: NightHawk G:T fighter
Re: Solomani Generals (humour?)
Favorite SF Weapon/Longbow II Project/GT Library Data
Where Rats & Cats?
Re: Geography of North America
Re: Geography of North America
RE: The Beyond
X-TEK Advanced Fighter
RE: The Beyond
X-TEK Advanced Fighter-Addendum
Re: Longbow II
Re: Harassment Insurance
Re Contact Hits
Re: NightHawk G:T fighter
Re: Longbow II
Re: NightHawk G:T fighter
Re: Re Contact Hits
Re: NightHawk G:T fighter

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:07:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: NightHawk G:T fighter

Bruce Alan Macintosh writes:

> We probably need some restrictions on GURPS vehicle tech for importation
> into Traveller to avoid such monstrosities.

Oh, very probably.  This was an experiment in munkinization, not a balanced
vehicle design per se.

> (a) the old superconductors-protect-against-laser shtick probably doesn't
> work (at least not with the superconductors we have), (b) it certainlyl
> wouldn't work against highly rapidly pulsed laser, (c) it isn't very 
> Traveller, and (d) it's one of those if-it-works-everyone-should-have-it
> things

Thermal-superconducting surface has nothing to do with being superconducting --
the only reason I included it at all is that the GT book uses it on powered
battle dress.  If you cap the effect as mentioned, however, it's expensive
enough that it's usually easier to stack on more armor.
> 
> >Space perfomance 11.01 Gs.
> Is there a limit to G-compensation in G:Trav?

Yes -- it's only compensating 6 Gs.  However, a G-seat can mechanically handle
the other 5 Gs for at least limited periods.
> 
> In general, the fact that you can get that much armour on a 10-ton fighter
> probably means that G:T over-rates defence - imagine how much armour a 
> battleship will have! Lasers and even spinal PAWs will be pretty much
> completely ineffective (especially since weapons are armoured in G:T and
> there doesn't seem to be much provision for surface sensor hits.)

Well, the way armor scaling works, immunity to bay and spinal weapons is very
difficult to get.  A 10,000 ton 6-G battle rider, using similar grossly
expensive armor, probably wouldn't have over DR 30,000.  Bay-mounted PAWs will
leak through on that, a spinal paw (averaging 210,000 damage) will pretty much
ignore it.

However, large warships, without even bothering with _anything_ which isn't in
GT in the ship design section, are likely to ignore lasers.  For practical
purposes, laser turrets are dedicated point defense weapons, with a secondary
purpose of blowing up hostile fighters.

Despite this, GT at high tech levels _does_ give the edge to defense.  TL 12
advanced metal, if we assume the same density as bonded superdense, has roughly
80x the toughness of a comparable thickness of steel.  Advanced laminate is
about 120x.  It takes around a 250 kT pocket nuclear weapon to kill a TL 12
heavy tank (500 kT if it isn't a contact explosion), and that kills it by
causing the structure to break apart, not by penetrating the armor.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 13:13:16 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Where Rats & Cats?

Leo Hale wrote:
> 
> ------------------------------
>      Do you know where I can get a copy of this Rats & Cats from Paranoia
> Press?
> 

Rats and Cats, OKA _Solomani and Aslan_, was a Digest Group Publications
race sourcebook, which, along with Cogs and Dogs, OKA _Vilani and Vargr_
are some of the most prized sourcebooks out there...I have seen them for
auction occasionally; the last time a copy was up that I bid on, I
dropped out of the bidding at $65...

I've looked through all the used bookstores and game shops around here,
have the people there let me know if traveller stuff comes through, etc.

I'm beginning to think there were something like 5 copies ever
published...

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:31:55 -0500
From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
Subject: Re: NightHawk G:T fighter

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:47:53 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: NightHawk G:T fighter


Anthony Jackson writes
>TL 12 light fighter (10 spaces)
>[munchkinized death fighter snipped]
>Impervious to TL 12 lasers from the frontal arc, mostly impervious to
>TL 10 lasers from the sides, can out-accelerate TL 12 missiles, totally
>impossible to get a lockon with active sensors, etc...
We probably need some restrictions on GURPS vehicle tech for importation
into Traveller to avoid such monstrosities. For example,
***********************
The ships construction system is compleatly compatible,  this ship costs 4x
the price of a normal light fighter...IMO this still ballances it out.


>thermal
>superconducting armor (per some discussed errata, _only_ adds DR 200
>(increases DR to 2000/4000 against lasers and fusion guns).
(a) the old superconductors-protect-against-laser shtick probably doesn't
work (at least not with the superconductors we have), (b) it certainlyl
wouldn't work against highly rapidly pulsed laser, (c) it isn't very
Traveller, and (d) it's one of those if-it-works-everyone-should-have-it
things
**************
with the errata, it is fixed, DR 200 is nothing compared to ship weapons.

>Armor: PD 4, DR 1800 advanced composite; front has 4/3800.
I think I would outlaw different armour for different facings on
principle; in practice, it's very hard for an evading ship to keep one face
always pointed at the enemy (although maybe G:T thrusters can operate
in arbitarary directions?)
************
they certainly can.

>Space perfomance 11.01 Gs.
Is there a limit to G-compensation in G:Trav?
************
Yes, 6 and then 2 m-3 more for the GSeat.  the pilot will feel 2-3 Gs...so
cannout uses all the accell all the time, but it works fin fore dodging
missiles.



In general, the fact that you can get that much armour on a 10-ton fighter
probably means that G:T over-rates defence - imagine how much armour a
battleship will have! Lasers and even spinal PAWs will be pretty much
completely ineffective (especially since weapons are armoured in G:T and
there doesn't seem to be much provision for surface sensor hits.)
**************
lasers yes, barbette PAWs as well, the heaviest ships (like the Tigress)
possibly even aginst Bay PAWs.  Armor still wont do much good against
Spinal Weapons.  High velocity missiles, while tricky to hit with, compare
well to bay weapons.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:38:41 -0500
From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
Subject: Re: Solomani Generals (humour?)

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:49:45 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Solomani Generals (humour?)
Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
>
> Solomani General #1
> Enjoys the company of an attractive young woman. Likes listening to
classic
> music. Is always being fitted for a new uniform. Often says "We are not
all
> barbarians you know"
> Solomani General #4
> Walks with a limp and wears a slightly different uniform to other
generals (for
> reasons which are never explained). Has a much more casual and relaxed
> attitude than other generals and would rather be with his men. Has spent
many
> happy years in the Imperium.
>
Oh Ghod! Dominic Flandry and Cletus Grahame on the _same side_!!! (not
to mention I don't recognize who the _other_ two are, but I'll assume
they're equally scary)
Oh well, the Imperium was nice while it lasted...
*************
and here I thought they were all based on WW-II Germans.....

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:28:30 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us>
Subject: Favorite SF Weapon/Longbow II Project/GT Library Data

On Favorite Sci-Fi Assassin Weapons:

While it's not a true assassin's weapon (although with the right 
poison, it could be), the spetsdod from Steve Perry Matador series is 
my personal favorite weapon of the genre.  Loaded up with Spasm, they 
had quite an affect on the local military.  Damn Scum!  <grin>

My second favorite SF weapon, also rarely used in assassinations, is, 
of course, the Light Sabre.  I can see the Darrians using them, since 
they've had a thing for grav art.  (Gravitic fields manipulate plasma 
into artistic expression.  One of the many true wonders lost with the 
Maghiz.  I think they've come a long way toward re-acquiring the tech 
though.)  The same principle allows for the construction of a "plasma 
sabre", but the Darrian culture as a whole doesn't seem the type to 
promote their use.  Maybe it could be used by some fanaticaly 
religious group seeking transcendence through some Zen-like 
meditative state.  You know, that would make a great excuse to 
introduce a source for psionics training and development.  Hmmm...

:)

On Longbow II:

Sure, the resolution is incredible, but it still doesn't violate the 
speed of light.  Must give the computers headaches to track the Core 
expeditions, et al, when they receive images of ships arriving in 
systems closer to the array years before the image of the ship 
leaving the star system farther away arrives at the array.  
Meanwhile, the furthest Core Expeditions penetrated almost 8000 
lightyears toward the galactic core, or something like that.  
Strephon's going to be looking at data for a long, long time....

Reminds me, what happened in deep space outside Glisten (I think) in 
1116?  The 1118 entry in GT reports an explosion in deep space 2ly 
out, so the actual event occurred in 1116.  (Takes two years for the 
image to travel through space to get to the sensors on Glisten.)  
Anyone have any thoughts?

In Service,
Jason

============================
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer I
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375

Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:42:05 -0500
From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
Subject: Where Rats & Cats?

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:43:11 -0800
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Where Rats & Cats?
    Do you know where I can get a copy of this Rats & Cats from Paranoia
Press?
***********
most of the relevant information should be in the upcoming GT books:
Solmani Rim
and Aliens II(could be III) .

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:25:55 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Geography of North America

At 01:32 PM 11/19/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>Ewan Quibell wrote:
>>
>> Is Britain not part of Europe ? 
>
>Not until just in the past few years!

"Fog in Channel, Europe Cut Off"

Headline in London paper, early 20th Century.

Doug.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:24:22 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Geography of North America

At 05:48 PM 11/19/98 +0000, you wrote:

>P.S. I thought Iceland lay on the fault between Europe and North America,
>which is why it is so volcanic. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Iceland is the geological equivalent of a scab.  *Something* punched the
crust there a few million years ago, and Iceland in the result.  A fairly
out of place island.

For years, it was thought that Iceland might mark the spot where the dino
killer had impacted, but that was discredited long before the Yucatan
crater was located.  Current best thought is that Iceland is the remains of
one of the last mega-volcanos on the sea floor.  The Island of Hawaii is
another good example.
- --

+--------------------------------------+
|Douglas E. Berry    dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/     |
+--------------------------------------+
| "In the long run luck is given       |
|  only to the efficient."             |
|     -Helmuth von Moltke, German Army |
+--------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 16:10:23 -0500
From: "Bob Sanders" <bsanders@amghome.com>
Subject: RE: The Beyond

From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>

- - ------------------------------
     Do you know where I can get a copy of this Rats & Cats from Paranoia
Press?

Leo

- ------------------------------


I write:

Oops.  We seemed to have confused the issue here,  I will try and explain.

The Beyond ( and the Vangard Reaches) we two supplements printed in 1981 by
Paranoia Press, Inc.  That company is long out of the business of printing
traveller materials.  You may be able to find some of the books in old dusty
corners in game stores, but I would not hold my breath.  I have not seen any
on the market since the mid 80's.

Rats and Cats, aka Zhodani & Aslan, (I think, I don't have my book anywhere
near me) was published by Digest Group Publications, or DGP.  In that one,
or another, they had a large map that covered the Beyond.  Another very
difficult item to find.

In one of the other traveller supplements, I think it was the MT box, an
entire map of the Doman of Deneb was published that included the subsector
rimward of the Spinward Marches,  The Trojan Reaches.  This had some
additional information as it is right next to The Beyond.

Some of these you may still find on the net,

Bob

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 16:21:21 -0500 (EST)
From: William Prankard <cmdrx@magicnet.net>
Subject: X-TEK Advanced Fighter

While you all were debating the TL-12 "Advanced' fighter (very nice by the
way, never thought of the laminate armour). I'd thought I'd let y'all see
what X-TEK has been up to! ;-)

X-TEK Press Release 320-1119

X-TEK of Deneb announces the production of it's new fighter, named the
Hornet-III Space Superiority fighter.

Built at the X-TEK "Fnordwerks" facility on Vincennes, the Hornet-III
utilizes cutting edge technologies to produce the most advanced fighter in
the Imperium.

The Hornet-III utilizes "Megathruster" technology, allowing the fighter to
accelerate faster than anything yet in the Imperial arsenal with a
staggering 7.25 gravities!  This amount of force is compensated by the
advanced TL-13 gravcomps in the cockpit.  Also, the fighter is protected
by a heavy armour shell, capable of deflecting most standard laser
systems.  If it wasn't for this armour, it is theorized the thrusters
would propel the fighter far to quickly, perhaps even into the 20 gravity
range!

The other innovation are the development of TL-13 x-ray lasers.  These
lasers are 20% more powerful that the standard TL-12 laser used my most
military vessels.

The Hornet-III therefore promises to be the "Next Generation" Fighter for
the IN.  The IN is still considering the proposal.

Currently the Vincenni Home Guard has bought a single wing of 5 Hornet-III
fighters for use in patrol duty.

Statistics:
10ton SL Hull, 6000DR, Cockpit, 4 Megathrusters, 
3x TL-13 420Mj Lasers (6d x100(2), 1/2d=3hex, Max=9hex each)

Emass/LMass:198.6t , Cost:27.5Mcr,  HP:3000
Acceleration: 7.25g, Airspeed: 7,350


\\  // Commander X
 \\//  CEO X-TEK Industries of Deneb, LIC
T E K  Military & Civilan Starship Contractor
 //\\  High Energy Weapons Research
//  \\ http://www.magicnet.net/~cmdrx/xtek/xtek.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:23:41 -0700 (MST)
From: "P. ENGEBOS" <pengebos@NMSU.Edu>
Subject: RE: The Beyond

On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, Bob Sanders wrote:
> In one of the other traveller supplements, I think it was the MT box, an
> entire map of the Doman of Deneb was published that included the subsector
> rimward of the Spinward Marches,  The Trojan Reaches.  This had some
> additional information as it is right next to The Beyond.

This was in the Megatraveller Journal - I think issue 2, but I can't
remember.

Peter Engebos				<pengebos@nmsu.edu>
T'Sarith, Lord deGaalth			<tsarith@io.com>
		http://web.nmsu.edu/~pengebos/

  "Here at Ortillery Command we have at our diposal hundred megawatt laser
beams, mach 20 titanium rods and guided thermonuclear bombs. Some people say
 we think that we're God. We're not God. We just borrowed his SMITE button
                        for our fire control system"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 16:25:09 -0500 (EST)
From: William Prankard <cmdrx@magicnet.net>
Subject: X-TEK Advanced Fighter-Addendum

The commander wanted me to make sure I reported on the fact that like all
X-TEK fighters, the Hornet-III is equiped with Radical stealth and
emmissions cloaking...

D'oh!

This concludes the X-TEK Press Release.

\\  // Commander X
 \\//  CEO X-TEK Industries of Deneb, LIC
T E K  Military & Civilan Starship Contractor
 //\\  High Energy Weapons Research
//  \\ http://www.magicnet.net/~cmdrx/xtek/xtek.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 13:26:44 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Longbow II

>Well, longbow II is apparently a phased-array sensor with an effective diameter
>of tens of parsecs.  The implication that jump drives are accurate enough (in
>terms of range) to allow doing interferometry between observations at the ends
>of a jump is...disturbing (sufficiently so that longbow II, at least in the GT
>writeup, will never show up in any campaign _I'm_ running).

You don't need jump drives accurate enough for such interferometry any more
than the trucks that drove VLBA elements into place needed to be accurate to
centimeters. All you need to do is *measure* the distance between elements 
to an accuracy comparable to the wavelength of light involved; for Longbow II,
this could be done by reference measurements wrt to multiple quasars and/or
by bootstraping laser measurements between stars (ie at some point during the
Third Survey, a scout in every system fires a sequence of coded laser pulses
to scouts in every other system within six parsecs; later on scouts are
positioned to recieve these, thus measuring the distances between each star
to a few nanometers.) 

Alternatively, if you don't have that accurate a measurement, you can 
self-calibrate by observing a bright point source and basically adjusting
your estimate of the distance between elements until the restored image
is a point source. (This is how the VLA and VLBA/VLBI normally operate.) 

The trick for Longbow II, of course, is finding a point source.

>In any case, the
>point is that you can see centimeter-sized objects in the galactic core (though
I don't htink it has a sufficient collection array for that to really be true
>- -- that's just its resolution.)

My suspicion is that the collecting array is sufficiently sparse that it
could only see objects with temperatures in the billions of kelvin. (Or lasers
pointed at the array.) Maybe if the array was only a few parsecs across and
the elements were a million km across (really only practical for long-wave
radio where you can use a loose mesh) it might work.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 16:48:25 -0500
From: John Macek <macek@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Harassment Insurance

Ian or Katts wrote:

> I'm thinking about paperwork, customs and opportunities for blackmail,
> harassment and so on.
>
> The first obvious thing that comes to mind is for our intrepid Free Trader
> captain to insure against it by putting some sort of larger orginisation on
> a retainer. I can imagine a firm of lawyers having an office at many of the
> worlds in a subsector, and our Free Trader slinging them, say, Cr 2500 a
> month in order to have local legal support as and when needed.
>
> In G:T terms this would be a Contact or an Ally Group.
>
> The second obvious thing is to join the TAS. One of their traditional roles
> is to provide liaison with local authorities. Of course, if you *are* a
> smuggler, and hiding behind the defenses of the TAS, then TAS may well get
> upset with you.
>
> Now, all this will cost, but it's better than facing the nightmare alone ...

My favorite insurance?  A blaster....
I'll pass on the Contact or Ally Group (Lawyers).
Instead, I'll take a  200 point Ally.... with a blaster....
;-)

John
(who thinks the Spinard Marches are wild and wooly!  ain't no room for insurance
men and lawyers in my campaign)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:39:08 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re Contact Hits

>> Finally, has anyone looked into building a combustion laser or other
>> distant-effect missile warhead in Gurps ?
>>
> I sincerely hope so, because the contact warheads in CT and GT are
>impossible.
> 2 reasons:
> 1) Scoring a contact hit on a less than 100m target from
>15000- 300 000km away is just not plausible (like trying to hit an F-14
>with a homing missile from several thousand klicks, don¥t think so)

It is perfectly plausible. It simply requires that the missile have

 a] more G's than the target
 b] good sensors
 c] sufficient endurance
 d] plenty of agility. (ability to change facing rapidly)

> 2) If you somehow did manage to score that contact hit, the result would
>not be this or that amount of damage, the target would be _vaporized_ (You
>wouldn¥t even need a warhead, the kinetic enrgy several tons of metal
>moving 10-20 km/s would do the trick nicely)

Only if the target isn't going some 10-20 km/s as well.

Realistc contact missiles aren't going to impact too terribly fast.... the
terminal guiodance phase requires them to maneuver in. Contact space
munitions are likely to close, grapple, and THEN detonate. (Think what a
grappled 10KT nuke will DO!)

Pure impact designs need to have sufficient agility and thrust to hit on a
closing course.... a one pass kind of deal...

Hell there is an RPG where kinetic kill missiles are the weapons of the
line of battle (Albedo, set in the world of _Erma Felna, EDF_).

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:aramis@gci.net> Note: All other E-mail addresses for me expire by
the end of november 1998!
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
UTUP 0309 6-7779577-5-5-2
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 23:53:19 +0200 (EET)
From: Eppu Tuominen <eptitu@utu.fi>
Subject: Re: NightHawk G:T fighter

On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, Michel Vaillancourt wrote:

>         The modern "Sidewinder" and I beleive "Sparrow" missiles *rarely*
> hit the target...  they have proximity radars that det the missle near the
> target and put about 2700 1" ball-bearing-type projectiles (Sidewinder) into
> the area and try and shred the target.
>         Any reason why this wouldn't work in CT?  Given the kinetic energy
> for any one of those projectiles, you'd still punch holes all over the hull.
> The HE is just there to spray the shrapnel;  this is also a good explanation
> for the 1D hits effects of missiles in CT (non-High Guard)....  how close
> was it when it went off, so how much shrapnel did you soak?
>         Or am I missing something wildly obvious here?
 
 Don't think you´re missing anything, this is in fact the same solution I
came up with. I used the same .2 cubic meter missile casing which GT
states, filling it with a 30kg warhead consisting of 600 50g superdense
penetrators, a thermal targeting terminal guidance, and a maser commo
reciever. The rest was EAPlaC fuel.

 I ended up with a weapon which has 8 G-turns for getting into target hex,
with 2 G-turns retained for terminal guidance (considering the terminal
guidance phase only takes 3-4 min, that's _a lot_ of G), and additional
7kg of EAPlaC fuel used to propel the cluster warhead. Of course this was
done with FF&S1, but I think one could come up with something similar with
GURPS Vehicles. (perhaps with reactionless drives for cruising, and SRF
for terminal guidance)  
 Some rough math showed that each 50g projectile alone, when travelling
10-20 km/s, would be enough to severely damage a ship. I also figured that
with 600 projectiles dispersing in about 30 degree space angle, the
missile would only have to get within about 10km of the target. That is a
target profile I find much easier to svallow.  

- -------------
Eppu Tuominen
eptitu@utu.fi
- -------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 17:00:00 -0500
From: Christopher Pratt <valen@gatecom.com>
Subject: Re: Longbow II

Bruce Alan Macintosh wrote:
> 
> >Well, longbow II is apparently a phased-array sensor with an effective diameter
> >of tens of parsecs.  The implication that jump drives are accurate enough (in
> >terms of range) to allow doing interferometry between observations at the ends
> >of a jump is...disturbing (sufficiently so that longbow II, at least in the GT
> >writeup, will never show up in any campaign _I'm_ running).
> 
> You don't need jump drives accurate enough for such interferometry any more
> than the trucks that drove VLBA elements into place needed to be accurate to
> centimeters. All you need to do is *measure* the distance between elements
> to an accuracy comparable to the wavelength of light involved; for Longbow II,
> this could be done by reference measurements wrt to multiple quasars and/or
> by bootstraping laser measurements between stars (ie at some point during the
> Third Survey, a scout in every system fires a sequence of coded laser pulses
> to scouts in every other system within six parsecs; later on scouts are
> positioned to recieve these, thus measuring the distances between each star
> to a few nanometers.)
> 
> Alternatively, if you don't have that accurate a measurement, you can
> self-calibrate by observing a bright point source and basically adjusting
> your estimate of the distance between elements until the restored image
> is a point source. (This is how the VLA and VLBA/VLBI normally operate.)
> 
> The trick for Longbow II, of course, is finding a point source.
> 
> >In any case, the
> >point is that you can see centimeter-sized objects in the galactic core (though
> I don't htink it has a sufficient collection array for that to really be true
> >- -- that's just its resolution.)
> 
> My suspicion is that the collecting array is sufficiently sparse that it
> could only see objects with temperatures in the billions of kelvin. (Or lasers
> pointed at the array.) Maybe if the array was only a few parsecs across and
> the elements were a million km across (really only practical for long-wave
> radio where you can use a loose mesh) it might work.
> 
> Bruce

Yeah but why all the imperial secrecary.  GT mentioned that
the longbow II was never mentioned by name and only in even
included in the most secret reports.  I had thought that it
was used to gather scientific data on the galactic core. 
did they see something that they don't want people to know
about, or are they just using it to spy on there own
citizens.


- -- 
later
christopher pratt
valen@gatecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 00:14:51 +0200 (EET)
From: Eppu Tuominen <eptitu@utu.fi>
Subject: Re: NightHawk G:T fighter

On Thu, 19 Nov 1998 Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com wrote:

> This missiles are only 300 lb, to get several tons of metal involved here
> you would need  40 or so missiles.  and 26.8km sec is 2 hexes per turn (a
> very low velocity)  this does 6dx100 damage x velocity (2) x 6 tons of
> metal (40 missiles) = 168,000 points of damage, enought to vaporize (11xht)
> a ship up to 256 dTons.....

 The kinetic energy of the missile at a "low" velocity of 2 hexes/turn
would be:
 300lb x .454 = 136.2kg  E(kin)= .5 x 136.2kg x 26800m/s^2= 4.89 x 10^10
joules delivered at target!
 In old FF&S1 units this would be: Pen Value = kinetic energy(Mj) x 4 =
Pen 195600! Bye bye battleship...

- -------------
Eppu Tuominen
eptitu@utu.fi
- -------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 00:20:35 +0200 (EET)
From: Eppu Tuominen <eptitu@utu.fi>
Subject: Re: Re Contact Hits

On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, William F. Hostman wrote:

 

 
> Realistc contact missiles aren't going to impact too terribly fast.... the
> terminal guiodance phase requires them to maneuver in. Contact space
> munitions are likely to close, grapple, and THEN detonate. 

 Which would leave plenty of time for even the most rudimentary point
defese system to shoot the missile to scrap. The "good sensors" needed to
acieve a contact hit (and i'm not saying such don't exist in Traveller)
would cost far too much to put into every one of the dozens of missiles
you'd need to get even one hit.
 
- -------------
Eppu Tuominen
eptitu@utu.fi
- -------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:34:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: NightHawk G:T fighter

Eppu Tuominen writes:
>  The kinetic energy of the missile at a "low" velocity of 2 hexes/turn
> would be:
>  300lb x .454 = 136.2kg  E(kin)= .5 x 136.2kg x 26800m/s^2= 4.89 x 10^10
> joules delivered at target!
>  In old FF&S1 units this would be: Pen Value = kinetic energy(Mj) x 4 =
> Pen 195600! Bye bye battleship...

I recommend _against_ using gaming system damage stats here -- a more accurate
measure here is 'kilograms of TNT', by which measure this is 12 tons TNT
equivalent.  Realistically, if we assume traveller ships are as tough as modern
surface ship of comparable size, this won't actually destroy ships much larger
than your average scout ship, though it will do serious damage to larger ships.

Note that the missile damage rules in GURPS Traveller quietly divide collision
damage by 5, presumably indicating that they're actually shrapnel warheads of
some sort.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1164
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Traveller-digest    Thursday, November 19 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1165



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Geography of North America
Re: Geography of North America
Re: Geography of North America
Re: Shiiva Deckplans
Re: Smuggling
Re: Longbow II
Re: Experience 
Re: First Contact future history
Re: T5
Re: NightHawk Fighter (TL 12) [12?] 
Re: .22 cal. 
Re: Geography of North America 
Re: Longbow II 
Re: Where Rats & Cats? 
Re: Smuggling
Re: Geography of North America 
Re: .22 cal. 
Vilani COBOL, anyone?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 23:19:20 GMT
From: jzeitlin@cyburban.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Re: Geography of North America

On Thu, 19 Nov 1998 01:43:58 -0500, CardSharks@aol.com (Marc
Miller) wrote:

>In a message dated 11/18/98 7:48:16 PM Central Standard Time,
>gmgoffin@yahoo.com writes:

><< No, I distinctly remember seeing three countries in North America,
> even after NAFTA (assuming that Central America starts at Mexico's
> southern border; if we're counting the continent as starting at
> Colombia, then we have a whole bunch more than two countries). >>

>Then again, Mexico likes for United Statesians (as the sometimes call us) to
>say we're Norteamericanos to distinguish ourselves from Americanos (which
>Mexicans consider themselves). So the Central American border starts at the US
>southern border under this interpretation. 

Actually, they _settle_ for asking us to call ourselves
"norteamericanos".  What they really want us to call ourselves is
a lot less printable than "gringos".

>And BTW, doesn't France have two little tiny possession islands just off the
>Canadian Atalntic coast (Miguelite and Piqueron, or something like that?).

Something like that.  /Saint-Pierre et Miquelon/ is a French
/Departement/, i.e., legally and administratively an integral
part of /la Republique Française/.  As opposed to, say, French
Polynesia, which is a French _Overseas_ /Departement/, legally
and administratively separate from /la Republique/, but whose
citizens may carry French passports.

- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 23:19:23 GMT
From: jzeitlin@cyburban.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Re: Geography of North America

On Thu, 19 Nov 1998 01:43:58 -0500, steve daniels
<stevedaniels@portcaddo.com> wrote:

>CardSharks@aol.com wrote:

>> In a message dated 11/18/98 7:48:16 PM Central Standard Time,
>> gmgoffin@yahoo.com writes:

>> And BTW, doesn't France have two little tiny possession islands just off the
>> Canadian Atalntic coast (Miguelite and Piqueron, or something like that?).

>And don't forget Denmark's Greenland.

That's "Kaliaat Nunaat" to you!  A small number of years ago,
Denmark granted them home rule, and officially accepted a
petition to rename the administrative district according to the
wishes of the indigenous tribes.

- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 23:19:28 GMT
From: jzeitlin@cyburban.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Re: Geography of North America

On Thu, 19 Nov 1998 13:17:43 -0500, CardSharks@aol.com (Marc
Miller) wrote:

>In a message dated 11/19/98 12:30:27 AM Central Standard Time,
>stevedaniels@portcaddo.com writes:

><< And don't forget Denmark's Greenland. >>

>Clearly that's not part of North America. Its an island (like Iceland).

Beg to differ - Except, I believe, for a small sliver on the
southern east coast of the island, it _is_ part of North America,
i.e., it is on the North American tectonic plate.  It is actually
more a part of North America than San Francisco or Los Angeles
are.

- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:16:22 -0500 (EST)
From: neo@total.net
Subject: Re: Shiiva Deckplans

Bruce Alan Macintosh sez,

>>The plans use 1 yard GURPS hexgrids, and don't show a power
>>plant.
>
>Why don't they show a power plant? I know that GURPS:Traveller design
>sequence doesn't explicitly include the plant, but it's really still there...

Er, uh, um, well... it's like this: I was pressed into service to produce
the plans within a short time frame, and while I know a lot about doing CT
deckplans, I've never done GURPS ships, nor do I own any GURPS materials. I
asked for a breakdown of the ships' componants, with displacement tonnage.
So a copy of the G:T ship design sequence was e-mailed to me, along with
the specs for four ships, and I was told to design them as if they were CT
ships, on a 1.5m grid, then just replace the grid with the 1-yard GURPS
hexgrid.

As you point out, the G:T design sequence doesn't show the power plant,
which is included in each module. So the ship breakdowns I received didn't
allocate any tonnage for a power plant. I scratched my head, looked at the
design sequence, and concluded (incorrectly) that each module came with an
independent power plant. Doh!

So there's no power plant on the four ships I designed for the G:T Alien
Races book - the Shivva Patrol Frigate, the Solomani Courier, the Vargr
Corsair, and the Drakaran Family Trader. But you can just assume that the
power plant is part of the maneuver drives, or part of the jump drive, or
perhaps mounted above or below these componants.

Mind you, at least my plans include a detailed key, and every componant and
space is clearly labeled. No nameless blank spaces on *my* ships!

Best,

Glenn

   ------------------------Glenn Grant------------------------  
                         <neo@total.net>
             Now in trade paperback from Tor Books:
   _Northern Stars: The Anthology of Canadian Science Fiction_
             Edited by David Hartwell & Glenn Grant
    "Sex times Technology equals The Future." -- J.G. Ballard

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:16:32 -0800 (PST)
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:49:39, Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
>Each check has a limited effect. But they add up, leaving a smuggler with
>the task of fighting against the probabilities.

Well, it means that a smuggler will have some chance during his smuggling
career* of having to rely on
whatever approach he uses incase paperwork is checked (thre
was a legit cargo that left when the paper work claims but it
was just dumped and replaced, the smuggler skips out on his identity at
a convenient time later, etc.).  Wether this increases the
odds of his being caught enough that the Imperium would find
it worthwhile bothering with depends on a lot on your take on
the factors and how you see the Imperium.

*(I am assuming a merchant who smuggles now and then.  A full time smuggler
probably has a way of avoid all paperwork, or reliably faking it, in a
chosen world that he just keeps exploiting.  However a smuggler who has a
reliable way of handling occaisonaly checks, such as mentioned below, might
not have to be that restrictive)

>By the way, David, what do you think the Imperium would do to try and catch
>pirates and smugglers ?

I'm not sure that the Imperium does try and catch smugglers.  It is
a local matter an may well vary from world to world.  I high law
world might have patrols all over the place, search ever cargo
coming out of the starport, etc.  OTOH, another world might wait
until an illegal item shows up and work their way back catching
as many people as they can.

As for pirates, I think they would go with random patrols and
tracking down incidents of piracy.

>>>this is low overhead
>>>(call it 2 hours of bureaucrat time to check, plus Cr 10 to send the form
>>>to the source worlds).
>>
>>The cost is low for _one_ event.  If it is extensive (which it can
>>esp. be if you look at the policy you are proposing for one issue
>>and then extrapolate it to every other record of a similar importance
>>that might be tracked), then it  can add up.  (I've never seen
>>a department listed that would do this, though admittedly I've
>>never seen anything that claimed to be an exhaustive list of
>>Imperial agencies).

>I can think of lots who could do this (IN, IISS, MinCommerce, local
>governments). Who would do it will vary from time to time, and I think from
>place to place.

Well, the point was that if you are going to invision this
kind of record keeping, you need to decide who is going
to do it, since there is no cannonical agency, that I
know of, that has been desribed as doing such things.

>Basically, the check will cost fractions of a percent of the cost of the
>cargo being carried. And if we have a staff, then they can do it wholesale.

For smuggling, if you are anticipating the seizure of the
cargo, you have to look at the cost of the records times
the fraction of all cargos that are being smuggled, times
the odds that the exercise will catch the smugglers, times
the odds that the cargo will still be around to be siezed
when the record catch back up.

>>>As far as the canonicity of this, I'd like to remind people of the
>>>existance of Legal skill in Merchant Price, and the roll to pass customs
>>>checks on inspections.
>>
>>I don't see how this addresses the question of whether records
>>are sent back to source worlds for verification.  Legal will be
>>useful either way.

>If you cannot verify the truth or otherwise of a record, then why in hells
>name would you bother to check it ?

Sending record back and forth is not the only way to check
record, nor is trying to get by with illegal records the
only legal issue a merchant will have to deal with.  It
can range from taxes, to quartine issues, to contract
issues, etc.  The fact that Merchant Prince has legal skill
doesn't say anything about customs and the roll to pass legal
checks doesn't say whether they are simply checking to make
sure the paper work is proper (the fact that the roll is
applied immediately could be used to argue against the
idea that it is to avoid verification from the source world).

>>>It doesnt really matter how long the check takes to do, within reasonable
>>>limits.
>>
>>Trying to
>>find someone with a trail that is months old will be a tricky
>>matter, esp. since the rate at which you can spread the
>>word about them isn't much faster than they can travel
>>(if at all).  And all they have to do in that period of
>>time is shake their paper trail once.
>
>Most commercial shipping with go at jump-3 or -4, tops. This is slower than
>news ships will go (news is the most value-dense of all cargos).

Most mail will, in fact, go on the self same commercial ships.
Other than the X-boat route (which only works along the
X-boat backbone and which is only jump-4 anyway) there
aren't any special high speed ships visiting every world.
None of the ships listed as being fitted for mail are
especially fast and mail has to sit around on each world
waiting for the next ships to the destination it needs to
get to.

> Most
>commercial shipping will also stick to some sort of operating area or
>route, because gaining local knowledge is costly.

"Most".  Most commercial shipping also doesn't engage in smuggling.
It can be ships that are don't stick to one area (these won't
be _that_ rare, esp. tramp steamers), ships that think
they have tapped out the area and are about to move on, ships
that are temporarily away from their local area, etc.

>>How do the "seem" to be running away?  It's not like we are talking
>>about pushing through a crowed yelling about how you need to get
>>away before they catch you.  The point of ID fraud, and similar
>>crimes, is that it isn't know that you are doing it.

>Oh, I'd say a ships log that indicates that they are moving away from, say,
>Mora at an average of jump-3 would do it. So would a complete lack of
>references to the ship in subsector's commercial shipping registers.

I don't think these would be that rare at all.  Any ships that
has to operate on cargoes of opportunity will have to go where
the cargo takes him, and then go where the cargoes on the next
world are going.  To not take a cargo because it goes
out of your area and sit around loosing money doesn't make
much sense to me.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 17:18:18 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Longbow II

<<snips discussion of LONGBOW II project parameters>>
> 
> Yeah but why all the imperial secrecary.  GT mentioned that
> the longbow II was never mentioned by name and only in even
> included in the most secret reports.  I had thought that it
> was used to gather scientific data on the galactic core.
> did they see something that they don't want people to know
> about, or are they just using it to spy on there own
> citizens.
> 
If you let the enemy know you know something, they can figure out _how_
you know it, and take appropriate steps.  Had the Japanese caught on
that US signal intelligence was reading much of their encrypted radio
traffic during World War II ("MAGIC", the counterpart to the British
"ULTRA"), they probably would have changed encryption systems, used
signal deception plans, and taken other steps to cut down on our ability
to profit from our SIGINT capabilities.

LONGBOW II is _way_ beyond MAGIC or ULTRA.


> --
> later
> christopher pratt
> valen@gatecom.com

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:16:36 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Experience 

> I rather liked the MT INT + EDU limit.  Once a character reached the
> maximum, I allowed characters to add new skill levels provided they
> dropped something else.  That way they could represent their changing
> life experience by specialising in different skills.  If they dropped
> skill levels in one skill completely, it didn't vanish, but remained at
> skill-0, to represent "well, I used to be a good pilot, I guess I can
> remember enough..."

That makes a lotta sense.  I use the INT + EDU limit in my game, but so far, haven't instituted any experience yet cause the game's still fairly new.

Keven


Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:28:23 -0800 (PST)
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: First Contact future history

Wed, 18 Nov 1998 23:15:21 -0800, shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)

>>Of course there is the question of whether, after the first
>>election, you could tell if Canada annexed the USA or the other
>>way around?

>  Yep - if the US annexed Canada and then allowed genuine elections,
>you'd have self-avowed socialists in Congress - and probably three
>or four more parties than you're used to.

You are assuming that Canada's annexation of the US would
essentially result in the conversion of the US to a parlimentary
system.  The question is whether the "former USA" wouldn't
just use their 90% of the vote to switch back to a "winner
take all" presidental system.

>  OC, Canada couldn't allow elections in any ex-US provinces until
>we'd been able to brainwash the youth for a generation; Clinton's
>a bit too right wing for many of us :)

Actually, having grown up across the Niagra river from Canada, I'm not
sure that saying it is more liberal isn't too simplistic.  For
example, I do see thing that would be considered less "progressive"
than in the USA (I was on vacation in Nova Scotia and if they
required unit pricing (like in the states that I've lived in)
I didn't see it and I saw something on TV that seem too policialy incorrect
to appear on US TV (unfortunately I've forgotten what it was).

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 17:37:26 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: T5

Martyn Wheeler wrote:
> 
> Some time ago (I'm trying to catch up on the TML in between working on
> getting my campaign background onto the web, which since it's about to
> go active again, is a higher priority than email) Marc Miller describes
> the vision of the ruleset I will undoubtedly be using when it comes out,
> including:
> 
> > The rules structure will support all milieux, although it will provide
> > examples and details for one milieu (probably M:0, and probably set in the
> > Antares sector).
> >
> 
> My biggest beef with T4 is that it supposedly does this, but most of the
> technical information stops well below the tech level in my campaign.
> For those of us running un-shattered Imperium campaigns, we're
> constantly using TL-15, and pushing TL-16 in places.  I have a small
> shipyard in Foreven that's pushing out (albeit *very* slowly) TL-16/17
> transition warships.
> 
> I've used TL-17 components in some ships under MT, but the advantages to
> using a TL-17 jump drive with TL-16 power plant (i.e. no anti-matter,
> but *much* smaller and more efficient jump drive) vanish in T4.
> Suddenly I can't fit the drives in the ship anymore.  TL-17?  Apparently
> in T4, anyone who has enough of an understanding to use anti-matter
> power plants can't use the associated technology to improve their jump
> drives...?  "I don't think so, Tim..." (a US TV sitcom catchphrase)
> 
> Also, how come 2000Mw of power generation takes the same crew at TL-18
> as it does at TL-12 (crew dependent solely on power output)?  Were the
> developers of T4 really telling me that there's the same vast number of
> people needed to crew a tiny anti-matter plant as a large nuclear plant
> of the same output?  Where do they put them all?  Make the power output
> big enough and the crew won't fit in it anymore.
> 
Well, you do get one way to reduce engineering crew:  the Computer
Multiplier (CM) improves as TL increases, thus allowing fewer
crewmembers to handle the work load.  Admittedly, you'd have to
extrapolate CM for computers above TL15, but that's not a hideous
glitch.  (Besides, if you did that, you could post your proposed
extrapolation on TML, and bask in the admiration of your colleagues.)

About your other points, I agree to some extent (mondo-tech does seem to
be an afterthought).  However, the campaign in which I play is set in
the Spinward Marches just prior to 5FW, so I don't run into as much
truly high-tech stuff as I might.  (My jump infantry regiment is
equipped at TL12-TL13, to ensure that the local industrial/technical
base can support us.) 

> OK, I'm using a sarcastic/irritated tone for effect.  I'm not really
> that mad -- I just want high tech levels to be given the proper
> attention in T5.  It strikes me that they're a mere afterthought in T4,
> possibly because of the M:0 focus.  For those of us in unshattered
> M:1120, that oversight is unfortunate.
> 
> To put my comments in the proper tone, I'm using T4 for the current
> campaign, and will no doubt switch to T5 as soon as enough material is
> available.  I have confidence in Mr. Miller.  What he's said so far
> confirms my expectation that T5 will rock.  I just want it to rock at
> TL-15 - 18 as well as at TL-12.
> 
> Martyn
>  ----pixie@interpath.com----Martyn Wheeler----DoD #293----1kspt=25-----
> "Touch me with your soul, Bless me with your smile        / traci lords
>  Give to me all your love, Baby watch me fly, watch me fly!"
>    "High and wide open, reaching forever, I fly into the blue" -- Moby

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
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- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:39:53 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: NightHawk Fighter (TL 12) [12?] 

> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:10:33 -0500
> From: Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil>
> > NIGHTHAWK FIGHTER (TL 12)
> snip
> I can't agree.  IMO, this presupposes that the Imperium does not have
> skunkworks-like top secret research facilities supporting the Imperial
> Forces to construct "advanced" fighters at the highest levels.  IMTU,
> the Imperium would build this "top secret...advanced fighter" at TL 15,
> not TL 12.  I don't believe that the designers would be willing to
> sacrifice 3 tech levels on missions that are "essential to Imperial
> security".

That's GURPS TL12, *NOT* GDW TL12.  Considerable difference.  GURPS TL12 is 
higher than GDW TL15.

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:41:20 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: .22 cal. 

> In a message dated 11/18/98 9:50:30 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca writes:
> 
> <<  Get shot in
>  the leg with a .22LR, and unless it pops the cartoid, you are going to live,
>  presuming medical care is available. >>
> 
> 	Hmm...I guess you WOULD be in trouble if you got shot in the leg and popped
> the carotid artery (which is in the neck, if my knowledge of anatomy is
> correct).

Actually, it's not hard at all, if you're the average Amrican politician suffering from the dreaded Rectal Cranial Inversion Syndrome.

<ducking>

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:45:02 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Geography of North America 

> 
> From: CardSharks@aol.com <CardSharks@aol.com>
> 
> 
> <snip>
> >
> >And BTW, doesn't France have two little tiny possession islands just off
> the
> >Canadian Atalntic coast (Miguelite and Piqueron, or something like that?).
> >
> St.Pierre and Miquelon, population about 6000. Both are not possessions, but
> overseas departments of France. Don't forget, guys, the invasion starts
> there.

Aren't they just the spiritual focus of Quebeqois Independence or something?

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:47:18 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Longbow II 

> Well, longbow II is apparently a phased-array sensor with an effective diameter
> of tens of parsecs.  The implication that jump drives are accurate enough (in
> terms of range) to allow doing interferometry between observations at the ends
> of a jump is...disturbing (sufficiently so that longbow II, at least in the GT
> writeup, will never show up in any campaign _I'm_ running).  In any case, the
> point is that you can see centimeter-sized objects in the galactic core 

And then they'll get nailed by those Armoured Beachballs From Hell?

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:50:32 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Where Rats & Cats? 

> I will post more as I complete more, if you want.
> 
> However, while I used the basic info from the Paranoia Press, I have
> converted the map to fit in the TDG map that was published in one of their
> subliments.  I am not sure which one, I think it was the rats and cats.  It
> showed a large overview of that area.
> 
> Some of the races I have fit/converted into what I think is reasonable.
> 
> Bob
> 
> ------------------------------
>      Do you know where I can get a copy of this Rats & Cats from Paranoia
> Press?

Um, 'Rats&Cats' is the nickname for 'Solomani And Aslan' by Digest Group Publications, an MT supplement.

Another one, 'Vilani and Vargr' is sometimes called 'Wogs & Dogs'.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:53:28 -0800 (PST)
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:22:16 +0100 (MET), Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>

>David P. Summers writes:
>>Trying to find someone with a trail that is months old will be a tricky
>>matter, esp. since the rate at which you can spread the word about them
>>isn't much faster than they can travel (if at all).  And all they have to
>>do in that period of time is shake their paper trail once.

>I've been trying to stay out of the discussion this time round, but I just
>can't let that one pass. As has been pointed out a number of times by a
>number of people, official news do move a lot faster than most (if not all)
>freetraders engaged in legitimate merchant operations.  Official news goes in
>straight lines by jump-6 couriers whereas freetraders ramble back and forth
>as the freight and trade takes them at jump-1 or jump-2.

The only jump-6 courier I've seen mentioned is the secret one
owned by Imperailines.  (The legit version is not jump-6).
The X-boat is jump 4 and the ships listed as being eligable
for a mail subsidy are not jump-6 either (I don't remember what
they are, I can look tonight).  Furthermore, at each world
the message has to then wait on the availablity of ships
going to appropriate destinations.

After all, the canonical
speed for official distribution of news of the Emperor's death
(you can't get much more important) was jump-4 (by the X-boats
network I think) which is why the
secret jump-6 couriers were able to get ahead of it.

If you are trying to catch
a ship who's destination is unknown, you have to send out
a general bulliten and this is going to require relying
on normal distribution channels.    Otherwise, you have to
have enough jump-6 couriers sitting around so that they
are immediately available everytime a ship becomes suspect
(including, as another poster pointed out, thing like
clerical errors).  They have to be available in such numbers
as to be able to visit ever world that the subject
ship might have reached in the time span that it took
the record check to return from the source world (weeks
to months) and that the subject ship might have visited
while things are catching up to them.

Also, I never specified a free trader.  If you want to invoke
that smugglers never travel faster than jump-2 you have to show
that they will never have higher jump ships.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:51:53 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Geography of North America 

> 
> 
> CardSharks@aol.com wrote:
> 
> > In a message dated 11/19/98 12:30:27 AM Central Standard Time,
> > stevedaniels@portcaddo.com writes:
> >
> > << And don't forget Denmark's Greenland. >>
> >
> > Clearly that's not part of North America. Its an island (like Iceland).
> 
> So then Long Island isn't part of North America either?

Not according to some people I know from NYC.
 
> Just kidding.

They weren't.  *grin*

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:54:10 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: .22 cal. 

> > On the opposite end of the spectrum, I accidently shot my
> > best friend w/ a .22 LR in the right arm...he was chasing me around his house
> > clocking me over the head w/ the cast 4 hours later.
> 
> You are not invited hunting with me.

He ain't invited in my entire *STATE* during hunting season.  It's bad enough that the locals have to wear these ridiculous orange vests and signs saying 'I AM NOT A DEER, DAMMIT!!!' in their *offices* during hunting season.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:57:45 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Vilani COBOL, anyone?

Dear Folks -

Bruce Johnson sugested:
>Does this mean Vilani ships run COBOL under VMS?

Certainly, Bruce. Here is a sample:


PROGRAM-ID. JUMP2PGM.
AUTHOR. ENERI SHUULIGLIIAM.
INSTALLATION. VLAND JUMP CO-ORDINATION CENTRE.
DATE-WRITTEN. 17/15/48.
DATE-COMPILED. 02/16/48.
SECURITY. OUR EYES ONLY.
REMARKS. JUMP-2 CALCULATION PROGRAM. DON'T EVER CHANGE THIS!!!
     :
     :
PROCEDURE DIVISION.

MAINLINE SECTION.

    PERFORM B-INIT.
    PERFORM C-READ-JUMP-TAPE.
    PERFORM D-PROCESS-JUMP-TAPE.
    PERFORM E-SWITCH-ON-JUMP-DRIVE.
    PERFORM F-DIM-THE-LIGHTS.
    PERFORM G-POWER-UP-JUMP-DRIVE.
    PERFORM H-INITIATE-JUMP.
    PERFORM I-POWER-DOWN-JUMP-DRIVE.
    PERFORM J-BRING-UP-THE-LIGHTS.

MAINLINE-EXIT.
    STOP RUN.
     :
     :
D-PROCESS-JUMP-TAPE SECTION.
    PERFORM DD-JUMP-CALCULATIONS.
    PERFORM C-READ-JUMP-TAPE.
    IF NOT END-OF-FILE GO TO D-PROCESS-JUMP-TAPE.
D-EXIT.
    EXIT.

The Solomani used the superior COBOL-85, allowing in-line PERFORMS and
removing redundant code:

PROGRAM-ID. JUMP3PGM.
     :
REMARKS. FILCHED AND MOD'ED FROM THE VILANI BY BOB.
     :
     :
    PERFORM B-INIT.
    PERFORM C-READ-JUMP-TAPE.
    PERFORM UNTIL EOF
       PERFORM D-DO-THE-CALCS
       PERFORM C-READ-JUMP-TAPE
    END-PERFORM.
    PERFORM E-FIRE-UP-THE-PLANT.
    PERFORM F-OFF-WE-GO.
    PERFORM G-SWITCH-OFF-AND-HAVE-A-BEER.

;-)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1165
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, November 19 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1166



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Bureacracy in the Imperium (was Re: Smuggling)
Re: Geography of North America 
RE: Where Rats & Cats?
Re: First Contact future history 
Re: First Contact future history
Re: Smuggling
Re: NightHawk Fighter (TL 12) [12?]
Re: Smuggling
Re: Smuggling
Re: Shiiva Deckplans
Re: First Contact future history
Re: Smuggling
Re: Vargr On The Big Screen
Re: New Star Wars trailer
Re: Re Contact Hits
Re: Where Rats & Cats?
Re: Where Rats & Cats? 
Re: First Contact future history 
Re: Geography of North America
Re: First Contact future history 
Re: Where Rats & Cats? 
Re: [Real men...]
Re:  Solomani Generals
Re: Geography of North America (Now WAAAAAY off topic)
Re: Smuggling/Bureaucracy
Re: Smuggling

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 16:03:26 -0800 (PST)
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Bureacracy in the Imperium (was Re: Smuggling)

Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:43:36 +0100 (MET), Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>

>The piracy thread, this thread and some others has given me some questions.

>1. What level of beureacracy does the Imperium have?
[snip]
>2. Does these officals really use to much time checking who has done
>   what two subsectors away, or do they first notice when the
>   starport chief i a far away system issues an offical arrest order?
[snip]
>To me it seems that you Hans, and some of the other guys here has a vision
>of the Imperium employing millons of clerks, analysts, lawyers. I see the
>arguments that the IN is huge because of the tax income that is used on it.
>But how much taxes are used on the people working for the Imperium?

I think, and this is the point, that much of the discussions
stems from just this issue.  Is the Imperium subject to the
kind of regulation and record keep/checking that we are used
to in our modern western society?  Or does the absence of
fast communications and the presence of a delocalized
governement structure take its toll and lead to a less
regulated/documented society?

My view is the latter.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 19:04:15 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Geography of North America 

> ><< And don't forget Denmark's Greenland. >>
> 
> >Clearly that's not part of North America. Its an island (like Iceland).
> 
> Beg to differ - Except, I believe, for a small sliver on the
> southern east coast of the island, it _is_ part of North America,
> i.e., it is on the North American tectonic plate.  It is actually
> more a part of North America than San Francisco or Los Angeles
> are.

*THAT* explains a lot!!!!!!!!!!

<ducking>

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:55:20 -0800
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <vanquer@email.msn.com>
Subject: RE: Where Rats & Cats?

>      Do you know where I can get a copy of this Rats & Cats from Paranoia
> Press?

Hello All,

	I run a product search service and will find these
and all other RP items for those of you who want them. 
Check out my website (URL is in the sig.) or send me a
private e-mail. 

Thanks.

Jesse.
Vanquer@EMAIL.MSN.COM
http://www.gryffon.com/leta 
for all your role-playing needs.
ICQ. 8004143

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 19:07:15 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: First Contact future history 

> >>Of course there is the question of whether, after the first
> >>election, you could tell if Canada annexed the USA or the other
> >>way around?
> 
> >  Yep - if the US annexed Canada and then allowed genuine elections,
> >you'd have self-avowed socialists in Congress - and probably three
> >or four more parties than you're used to.
> 
> You are assuming that Canada's annexation of the US would
> essentially result in the conversion of the US to a parlimentary
> system.  The question is whether the "former USA" wouldn't
> just use their 90% of the vote to switch back to a "winner
> take all" presidental system.

*YOU'RE* assuming that 90% of the registered voters would show up at the polls 
and vote the switch in.  I don't see this happening.  <grin>

> >  OC, Canada couldn't allow elections in any ex-US provinces until
> >we'd been able to brainwash the youth for a generation; Clinton's
> >a bit too right wing for many of us :)
> 
> Actually, having grown up across the Niagra river from Canada, I'm not
> sure that saying it is more liberal isn't too simplistic.  For
> example, I do see thing that would be considered less "progressive"
> than in the USA (I was on vacation in Nova Scotia and if they
> required unit pricing (like in the states that I've lived in)
> I didn't see it and I saw something on TV that seem too policialy incorrect
> to appear on US TV (unfortunately I've forgotten what it was).

'Father Ted' mebbe?  I miss that show.  It *was* on Monday nites on CBET, but they moved it someplce I can't find.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 16:15:18 -0800
From: "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@home.com>
Subject: Re: First Contact future history

>>>Of course there is the question of whether, after the first
>>>election, you could tell if Canada annexed the USA or the other
>>>way around?
>
>>  Yep - if the US annexed Canada and then allowed genuine elections,
>>you'd have self-avowed socialists in Congress - and probably three
>>or four more parties than you're used to.
>
>You are assuming that Canada's annexation of the US would
>essentially result in the conversion of the US to a parlimentary
>system.  The question is whether the "former USA" wouldn't
>just use their 90% of the vote to switch back to a "winner
>take all" presidental system.
>
>>  OC, Canada couldn't allow elections in any ex-US provinces until
>>we'd been able to brainwash the youth for a generation; Clinton's
>>a bit too right wing for many of us :)
>
>Actually, having grown up across the Niagra river from Canada, I'm not
>sure that saying it is more liberal isn't too simplistic.  For
>example, I do see thing that would be considered less "progressive"
>than in the USA (I was on vacation in Nova Scotia and if they
>required unit pricing (like in the states that I've lived in)
>I didn't see it and I saw something on TV that seem too policialy incorrect
>to appear on US TV (unfortunately I've forgotten what it was).
>
Sound like "This hour has 22 Minutes". It will bash anything but Rick
Mercer(?) fav targets seems to be the US (big brother is having a fit again)
and Jean Chretien (PM) is nuts.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 16:12:48 -0800 (PST)
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:13:22 -0400, Michel Vaillancourt
<misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
>        Here in the RealWorld(tm) Port of Halifax, we get one to three "G3"
>container ships and a couple of coastal frieghters every day.  Call us a
>"Class B" port...  Canada customs databases the manifest list for every ship
>that comes and goes, and "targets" specific shipments for inspection.  For
>example, if a given container originated in Colombia, then it gets higher
>priority than one that originated in London.  Given that a G3 ship carries
>~2000 TFUs, they manage to break seals under warranty and phyiscally inspect
>an average of 0.3% of traffic.  Of course, because of the paperwork
>pre-screening, these are the *top* of the curve for contraband probability.

The interesting point, is that you desribing inspection of
the records that came with the ship against the contents of the
cargo.  This brings up the question, since the world has
communications that the Imperium can only dream of, do they
check documents against what is recorded in at the source
port?  If not, then you have to wonder why you would expect an
Imperium that has much slower communications to do so.

>        Nope... you are thinking 20thC tech.  Every cargo container has a
>WORM drive on it that has recorded every place it has ever been...
[details of a system where the cargo record when it leaves
the system]
The problem is that the same advances in technology will give
you techniques to get around these measures.  The history of
crime is one of much confidence in new technologies that will
eliminate new types of crime only to have them circumvented by
some new technology or approach by the criminals.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 19:13:46 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: NightHawk Fighter (TL 12) [12?]

>This is GURPS tech level, not traveller tech level.  GURPS TL 15 is
>somewhere
>around traveller TL 20-21.

What about using "GTL" for the GURPS  tech level?  That way everyone will
be clear on which TL you mean.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 16:16:23 -0800 (PST)
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:17:00 -0400, Michel Vaillancourt
<misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
>Eventually, every warrant or what have-you will be
>seen by *every* databank in the Datanet.  You can try and keep ahead of the
>"ripple" if you like, but eventually this will drive you out of Known Space
>into what is functionally Exile.

The point was not that information would never catch up.  It was
that by the time it did, the trail would old and cold and the
subjects would have had plenty of time to take measures.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 19:19:02 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Smuggling

Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com writes:
>but what is the cost of this?  when you buy cargo on spec does it come
>with
>containers?  if so how much cheaper is it without the containers?

Damn cheap. Remember that even the poorest households on TL12 Sylea have
spray-on vidwalls. In bulk, the basic units would be an extremely minor
part of the cost of a cargo container.

I like the idea of large companies _always_ using containers, while tramp
traders use what they can., including older, lower-tech, easier-to-fool
cargo containers. Searching them takes longer, and isn't popular with
customs officers, but it gives players a chance to use those interpersonal
skills to get the job done faster (and maybe less efficiently).

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 19:32:21 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Shiiva Deckplans

traveller@mpgn.com writes:
>Er, uh, um, well... it's like this: I was pressed into service to produce
>the plans within a short time frame, and while I know a lot about doing CT
>deckplans, I've never done GURPS ships, nor do I own any GURPS materials.
> 
[snip]
> So the ship breakdowns I received didn't
>allocate any tonnage for a power plant. I scratched my head, looked at the
>design sequence, and concluded (incorrectly) that each module came with an
>independent power plant. Doh!

Ie. it was an editorial mistake. Someone should have caught this after you
submitted the plans and clarified it for you.

>
>So there's no power plant on the four ships I designed for the G:T Alien
>Races book - the Shivva Patrol Frigate, the Solomani Courier, the Vargr
>Corsair, and the Drakaran Family Trader. But you can just assume that the
>power plant is part of the maneuver drives, or part of the jump drive, or
>perhaps mounted above or below these componants.

Part of the drives is probably easiest.

This illustrates a major problem with the GT design system, though: not
knowing how much of any component is the power plant.
>

Hm. Any chance of getting these ships with a 1.5m grid? Or maybe a 1m grid
(rather than 1yd)?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 19:36:25 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: First Contact future history

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> writes:
>The question is whether the "former USA" wouldn't
>just use their 90% of the vote to switch back to a "winner
>take all" presidental system.

Wouldn't work. Every province would have to agree, not just a majority of
the population. 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 17:23:56 -0800
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

- -----Original Message-----
From: Rob Prior <Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Thursday, November 19, 1998 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: Smuggling


>Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com writes:
>>but what is the cost of this?  when you buy cargo on spec does it come
>>with
>>containers?  if so how much cheaper is it without the containers?
>
>Damn cheap. Remember that even the poorest households on TL12 Sylea have
>spray-on vidwalls. In bulk, the basic units would be an extremely minor
>part of the cost of a cargo container.
>
>I like the idea of large companies _always_ using containers, while tramp
>traders use what they can., including older, lower-tech, easier-to-fool
>cargo containers. Searching them takes longer, and isn't popular with
>customs officers, but it gives players a chance to use those interpersonal
>skills to get the job done faster (and maybe less efficiently).


I recently ran a game where the PCs went 'spec on a cargo - sight unseen.
(Although samples of the widgets were provided, and contractual guantees
were made.)  When they got to the warehouse (a 4 day N-space trip to another
planet), they found that the warehouse did indeed contain the cargo - 50+
dTons in 1 cubic meter cardboard boxes.

Many, many of them.

This was followed by figuring out how to load 'em (paid the locals), how to
store 'em effeciently in the cargo hold without destroying the boxes under
their own weight (turned the floor fields *way* down), and how to keep a
straight face when they were boarded by a IN 'health and welfare'
inspection - especially since (IMTU) such an inspection requires a manifest
check (passenger, crew and cargo) and a physical inspection of 10% of the
cargo containers being carried.

douglas

E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas
IMTU: tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls
The early bird gets the worm, BUT
   the second mouse gets the cheese!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 20:29:33 -0500
From: John H Bogan Jr <jbogan@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: Vargr On The Big Screen

At 02:53 AM 11/19/1998 EST, you wrote:
>>>One of them is the dragon-eared character from that old 'Dragon' comic
>>>strip...which name escapes me now...
>>
>>  Wormy?
>
> or maybe... Snarf?

He does look like Snarf, of "Snarfquest" fame

Ob Traveller: Snarfquest was done by T4 interior
artist Larry Elmore...

JB

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 20:31:47 -0500
From: John H Bogan Jr <jbogan@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: New Star Wars trailer

At 02:04 PM 11/19/1998 EST, you wrote:
>	I am not sure if this will get to many people in time...
>
>	Tonight on the CBS TV show "Access Hollywood", the new preview of the
Phantom
>Menace (the new SW movie) will be shown in it's entirety.  The show is on
>locally here (Las Vegas, NV) at 7PM...check your local listings, and warm up
>the VCR!!!  :-)

You can also download it off of www.starwars.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:34:12 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@shell.rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Re Contact Hits

 
> > Realistc contact missiles aren't going to impact too terribly fast.... the
> > terminal guiodance phase requires them to maneuver in. Contact space
> > munitions are likely to close, grapple, and THEN detonate. 
> 
>  Which would leave plenty of time for even the most rudimentary point
> defese system to shoot the missile to scrap. The "good sensors" needed to
> acieve a contact hit (and i'm not saying such don't exist in Traveller)
> would cost far too much to put into every one of the dozens of missiles
> you'd need to get even one hit.
  
Hmmm. Kinetic energy missiles aren't feasible because point defense
will always get 'em... how many thousand years before people stop
*installing* point defense... Boy, the first guy with a few of these
will wipe out somebody's fleet :-)

Besides, what about ships that have no point defense, or ones that
have had it shot away?

As for another post about low closing velocities being typical for
missiles---I've found that you'll usually get about twice the
missile's delta v as a closing velocity. Many combats I've fought
with various systems have been head-on affairs, not running fights
(and the guy following gets KE missiles poured onto him with a large
CV).

So a target is going ~100km/sec in the +X direction, and the missile
is coming in at maybe 1-200km/s in the -X direction. Even at an
angle out of the X axis the CV will be over 100km/s, probably more
like 200km/s. A 1 ton missile that isn't hosed down kills anything
it hits (for arguements sake--I'd expect a fragmentation missile to
spread many, many tiny submunitions).

BTW, I saw 10-20km/s quoted in another post. That's around 1/2 an
hour's delta v at 1g. Missiles are at least 6g critters, and most
military ships are 4-6gs as well.

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 20:33:47 -0500
From: John H Bogan Jr <jbogan@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: Where Rats & Cats?

At 03:42 PM 11/19/1998 -0500, you wrote:
>Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:43:11 -0800
>From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
>Subject: Where Rats & Cats?
>    Do you know where I can get a copy of this Rats & Cats from Paranoia
>Press?

"Rats & Cats" wasn't from Paranoia Press. It's the
unofficial nickname of DGP's "Solomani and Aslan".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 20:36:53 -0500
From: John H Bogan Jr <jbogan@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: Where Rats & Cats? 

At 06:50 PM 11/19/1998 -0500, you wrote:
>Another one, 'Vilani and Vargr' is sometimes called 'Wogs & Dogs'.

_Cogs_ & Dogs.  Y'know, the little bits in the big machine...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 20:43:28 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: First Contact future history 

At 07:07 PM 11/19/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> >>Of course there is the question of whether, after the first
>> >>election, you could tell if Canada annexed the USA or the other
>> >>way around?
>> 
>> >  Yep - if the US annexed Canada and then allowed genuine elections,
>> >you'd have self-avowed socialists in Congress - and probably three
>> >or four more parties than you're used to.
>> 
>> You are assuming that Canada's annexation of the US would
>> essentially result in the conversion of the US to a parlimentary
>> system.  The question is whether the "former USA" wouldn't
>> just use their 90% of the vote to switch back to a "winner
>> take all" presidental system.
>
>*YOU'RE* assuming that 90% of the registered voters would show up at the
polls 
>and vote the switch in.  I don't see this happening.  <grin>
>
AND he is assuming that we would WANT to be under US rule again. Not likely
if it means another round of Slick Willy and Ken "I'm the" Starr

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:29:27 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Geography of North America

Greater Britain as opposed to lesser  Brittany I think.  Geographic terms...

At 14:42 19/11/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 11/19/98 11:50:14 AM Central Standard Time,
>E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk writes:
>
><< Is Britain not part of Europe ? >>
>
>I am reminded of the introduction of someone or other...
>
>May I introduce So-and-so of Britain, formerly Great Britain.
>
>Marc Miller
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 21:11:28 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: First Contact future history 

> >> You are assuming that Canada's annexation of the US would
> >> essentially result in the conversion of the US to a parlimentary
> >> system.  The question is whether the "former USA" wouldn't
> >> just use their 90% of the vote to switch back to a "winner
> >> take all" presidental system.
> >
> >*YOU'RE* assuming that 90% of the registered voters would show up at the
> polls 
> >and vote the switch in.  I don't see this happening.  <grin>
> >
> AND he is assuming that we would WANT to be under US rule again. Not likely
> if it means another round of Slick Willy and Ken "I'm the" Starr

Actually, I kinda feel sorry for Ken Starr.  No matter what he did, his career 
was *OVER* the instant he accepted the job.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 21:13:15 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Where Rats & Cats? 

> At 06:50 PM 11/19/1998 -0500, you wrote:
> >Another one, 'Vilani and Vargr' is sometimes called 'Wogs & Dogs'.
> 
> _Cogs_ & Dogs.  Y'know, the little bits in the big machine...

I always called it 'Wogs & Dogs'.  As in, 'wogs' being people living in 
colonial territories under the British Empire, and considering the 'Rats' took 
'em all over for the Rule of Man & considered them all second class citizens...

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 21:15:43 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: [Real men...]

Alien beings from a highly advanced society visit the earth. You are the
first human they have encountered and as a token of
inter-galactic friendship they present you with a small but
incredibly sophisticated device that is capable of curing all
diseases, provide an infinite supply of clean energy, wipe out
hunger, and permanently eliminate oppression and violence. What
would you do with it?

>A. Present it to the Prime Minister
>B. Present it to the Secretary General of the United Nations.
>C. Take it apart.

D. Give it back. TINSTAAFL.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:18:17 +0800
From: Michael Bailey <mickb@iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re:  Solomani Generals

Good one Andrew...here's another:


Solomani General #X

Has been known to frequent the company of <ahem> women of the night.  Is
fond of his drink, but only when off duty. Suffers from gout.  He is highly
regarded by his men, but his officers tend to despise him.  Has some
difficulty in getting on with allied officers.

Slainté



Mick Bailey
mickb@iinet.net.au
solomani.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 21:21:56 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Geography of North America (Now WAAAAAY off topic)

At 06:45 PM 19/11/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> 
>> From: CardSharks@aol.com <CardSharks@aol.com>
>> 
>> 
>> <snip>
>> >
>> >And BTW, doesn't France have two little tiny possession islands just off
>> the
>> >Canadian Atalntic coast (Miguelite and Piqueron, or something like that?).
>> >
>> St.Pierre and Miquelon, population about 6000. Both are not possessions, but
>> overseas departments of France. Don't forget, guys, the invasion starts
>> there.
>
>Aren't they just the spiritual focus of Quebeqois Independence or something?
>
        Not even close.
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:17:17
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Smuggling/Bureaucracy

>From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
>Subject: re: Smuggling
>
>And again, it doesn't matter how good your cargo tracking stuff is.
>All you need is a backwater frontier world with an ethically challenged
>port master, and you have a point to start a legitimate paper trail from.
>

True. And speaking as a bureacrat, I'd get worried if I saw a manifest
reference to a high-tech cargo coming from such a backwater.

I'd get real worried if the starport cargo uploads indicates a series of
these cargos.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:14:18
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

>From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: Smuggling
>
>Ian Whitchurch wrote:
>
>The IN has other things to do than play customs inspector. Their
>principal business is killing armed spaceborne enemies of the
>Imperium. The intelligence agencies have intelligence to gather.
>

Firstly, piracy *is* an intelligence issue. If you are, say, a Sword Worlds
intelligence bureau, then a viable piracy infrastructure makes a wonderful
tool for infiltrating agents, gaining intelligence, tying down ships behind
the front line in war and so on.

Secondly, if pirates arent armed spaceborne enemies of the Imperium, I'm
not sure who is. And fences and smugglers are the essential support
structure that let pirates exist. Cut off their ability to turn stolen
cargo into cash for repairs, and you cut off their ability to exist.

>>Basically, you require goods to have paperwork to hit piracy
>>from the 'back end'. You do targetted compliance on, say, 2% of
>>cargos, plus another 1% at random.
>
>Checking every thirtieth trader to see if he's trying to make a
>dishonest credit? The mind boggles. If it's information and not
>enforcement you want, you can do random sampling a lot less less
>intrusively. 

Random sampling is stupidly inefficient. The primary thing you are looking
for is cargos and ship bits stolen by pirates.

>
>>You check the actual cargo against the manifest:
>
>Not without an army of inspectors, and not until the goods are offloaded,
>you don't.  Going into a ship's cargo hold and cracking open stowed and
>sealed containers to find out if they really contain what they say they do
>is a good way to make honest merchants hate you.
>

Honest merchants always hate bureaucrats. Life is like that.

>>copy the manifest, then batch it up and send the batched
>>manifests back to the source worlds. They cross check it against
>>outgoing cargos declared, and a form letter to who the manifest
>>says you bought it off. If anything doesnt match, then the ship
>>goes onto the watch list.
>
>Add at least two weeks per jump, for round-trip information flow.
>(request plus reply). By the time you compile and get the
>information to your neighbors, it's already a month old or more.
>Then consider the rate of clerical errors, and their effect on
>false alarms. You have a choice of delayed and untrustworthy, or
>reliable but hopelessly outdated.
>

Have a look at how long most commericial fraud or smuggling cases take to
get to court.

>>>multiply that by a few thousand goods and a few thousand
>>>worlds, and the Imperium starts needing a substantial
>>>bureacracy if it wants to regulate internal trade.
>
>>The Imperium doesnt want to regulate internal trade. It just
>>wants to know what is going on. What local worlds want to do is
>>the responsibility of them, at the gates of the Extrality Fence.
>
>Control of fencing (of pirated goods) and smuggling is a form of
>regulation.
> 

If it's illegal, it isnt regulation, it's law enforcement.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1166
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Friday, November 20 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1167



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: X-teck 'advanced' 'fighter'
Re: Harassment Insurance
Re: .22 cal.
Re: NightHawk Fighter (TL 12) [12?]
Re: Geography of North America
Longbow II/Camels
Re: Where Rats & Cats? 
Re: Paul Hume & ???
Re: uplifting
Re: Where Rats & Cats? 
.224 Boz or 10mm
Re: Longbow II
teleportation
personal drones
Concrete & Stealth
Re: Bureacracy in the Imperium (was Re: Smuggling)
Re: Harassment Insurance
Re: Vilani COBOL, anyone?
Re combat systems [rant warning]
RE: Variant wounding systems?
Re: First Contact future history
Re: combat systems [no rant here<g>]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:23:00
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: X-teck 'advanced' 'fighter'

>From: William Prankard <cmdrx@magicnet.net>
>Subject: X-TEK Advanced Fighter
>
>The Hornet-III therefore promises to be the "Next Generation" Fighter for
>the IN.  The IN is still considering the proposal.
>
>Currently the Vincenni Home Guard has bought a single wing of 5 Hornet-III
>fighters for use in patrol duty.
>
>Statistics:
>10ton SL Hull, 6000DR, Cockpit, 4 Megathrusters, 
>3x TL-13 420Mj Lasers (6d x100(2), 1/2d=3hex, Max=9hex each)
>

Ewwwwww .... the exie-wexies think seven point twooooo fiiiive geees is
impressive.

Did yooouuuu seeeee our modifacation-wodifacation of the NightHawk that
pulled eleven ???

An weee weeee weee reckon that a cockpit-wockpit computer-wuter is tooo
smalllll ... weeeeee think you should buy a big big bigggie big
bridgie-widgie, to allow a biiigggger computer-wuter.

Weeeee reckon that this is the beeeest investment of twennny tons mass you
can maaaaake, coz it lets you use much better program-wograms, allowing
hiiiiiiii accuracy use of the gunsie-wunsies. An an an muuuch better
sensor-wensors.

An we we we reckon that for military-wilitary use you should always have a
nukie-wukie damper-wamper coz coz coz one nuke can ruin your
whooooooooooole day.

Ditziiieeeeee

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:27:32
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Harassment Insurance

>From: John Macek <macek@erols.com>
>Subject: Re: Harassment Insurance
>
>My favorite insurance?  A blaster....
>I'll pass on the Contact or Ally Group (Lawyers).
>Instead, I'll take a  200 point Ally.... with a blaster....
>;-)
>

Neat theory, but the Bureaucrat has a 6- Ally (Imperial Navy).

>John
>(who thinks the Spinard Marches are wild and wooly!  ain't no room for
insurance
>men and lawyers in my campaign)
>

Unfortunatly, the Spinward Marches is also highly militarized, and the site
of most of the Imperium's wars over the last 300 years.

Personally, I think by the 1100s it would be a lot more like Checkpoint
Charlie than Kansas City in the days of the gunfighter.

I really think that we should do a 'Spinward Marches in the 500s'
sourcebook, for the people who really really want a minimum bureacracy,
minimal regulation, maximum piracy, maximum bring-your-own-guns campaign.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 21:20:20 -0600
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net>
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

At 12:30 PM 11/19/98 , you wrote:
>In a message dated 11/17/98 17:19:53 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>gmgoffin@yahoo.com writes:
>
><< From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
> 
> I have not heard of someone being killed with a single .22 cal bullet
> except through blood loss (not receiving medical attention). 
> 
> ************************************
> Talk to some cops when you get a chance.  A .22 can pierce the skull,
> especially through the eyes, temples, or palate, but even through the
> thick parts, too.   >>
>
>	I can speak from some small amount of experience...when I worked for the
>Maricopa County Medical Examiner in 92, I picked up an individual who
>accidentally shot himself in the big toe w/ a .22...he died on the phone w/
>the 911 operator.  On the opposite end of the spectrum, I accidently shot my
>best friend w/ a .22 LR in the right arm...he was chasing me around his house
>clocking me over the head w/ the cast 4 hours later.

Hmmm,

Do bullet wounds adversly affect *friendships*?

Sinbad Sam

Sinbad Sam
"Black Curtain" Rod Holder...
AI Virus inferior races(Aslan, Humaniti, Kkree, Droyne) Interfacer
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
sinbad@ignore.hex.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 23:29:47 -0500
From: "N. Eric Phillips" <stilleon@io.com>
Subject: Re: NightHawk Fighter (TL 12) [12?]

>Yep.  Never saw anything that indicated G:T in the subject....and as I'm
>not a gearhead either, just presumed T TLs.....  Sorry.


My fault- sorry

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 21:06:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Sword Worlder <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Geography of North America

- ---CardSharks@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 11/19/98 12:30:27 AM Central Standard Time,
> stevedaniels@portcaddo.com writes:
> 
> << And don't forget Denmark's Greenland. >>
> 
> Clearly that's not part of North America. Its an island (like
Iceland).
> 
> Marc
> 

Okay, now I'm confused.  How many continents are there?  Is P.E.I. not
part of N. Amer., now?  Let's see, Cuba is part of the Antartic
continent, but Key West is in the Dutch West Indies?  My head hurts. 
I've heard of continental drift, but I didn't think that I'd been out
of school THAT long!  Or is this part of the Redistricting thing that
Congress keeps talking about?  Will the 2000 census straighten all of
this out for us?  Someone pass the asprin, please.


_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 00:05:45 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Longbow II/Camels

Christopher Pratt asks, in re Longbow II:

"could some explain why it is such a huge secret?"

If I did, then it wouldn't be a secret.

Next: packages of Camel coffin nails allegedly have a nekkid woman engraved in
the pattern of the camel's fur. If you look at the engraving long enough, and
squint, you can sort of see a female form (it is a stretch to say its a nude
woman) -- in the same sense you can see rutabagas in clouds and faces in the
craters of the moon (JPL has a photo of a lava flow that looks like Kermit the
Frog -- anybody ever see that one?).

Turns out, when you look at the photograph of the camel (one of the
attractions at Ringling Bros and Barnum & Bailey around the turn of the last
century), you can see the same pattern -- whatever it is -- in the camel's
fur. The engraving merely copies what was already there.
 
Loren Wiseman
   SJ Games Emigre
   GDW Emeritus

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 21:11:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Sword Worlder <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Where Rats & Cats? 

- ---"Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net> wrote:
>
> > At 06:50 PM 11/19/1998 -0500, you wrote:
> > >Another one, 'Vilani and Vargr' is sometimes called 'Wogs & Dogs'.
> > 
> > _Cogs_ & Dogs.  Y'know, the little bits in the big machine...
> 
> I always called it 'Wogs & Dogs'.  As in, 'wogs' being people living
in 
> colonial territories under the British Empire, and considering the
'Rats' took 
> 'em all over for the Rule of Man & considered them all second class
citizens...
> 


Let's call it "Frogs & Dogs".  Just to see if the .ca-types will get
ticked off. [ducks] =:-o



==
- ------------------------><>------------------------
IMTU 0601 tc++ tm !tn t4+ ?tg ru++ 3i pi ta+ he+ 
http://come.to/traveller

You might be a Traveller fanatic if... your resume includes a UPP and skill listing!


_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 00:37:13 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: Paul Hume & ???

	Actually I though the other person was Robert Charotte (but than I'd have to
look again).

	Anyway, you might be able to contact Paul via Fasa if they are still in touch
with him. The other possibility would be GEnie, where he last worked (or still
works).
	His email address might be Paul.Hume or P.Hume@Genie.com (or you can try
feedback@Genie.com).
	I'm not really sure on any of those addresses though, it's been a long time
since I last contacted him and he was mainly using another address than
(FASA2, but that no longer works).
	If none of those work, I have another party I might be able to try in a
couple of months.
	If you find him, tell him hello from me.

Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 98 23:37:07 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: uplifting

On 11/18/98 at 07:04 AM,  Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> said:

>> Wonder, though, how the Imperium react to finding a planet of Cro - Magnon
>> or the like. Would the regard them as human or ape?

>Human...If a Cro-Magnon walked up to you on the street and said
>hello, well, you'd just say hello back. Cro-Magnon is not a
>subspecies designation but an archaeological/cultural one, they were
>H. Sapiens sapiens just like us. On the average they were a bit
>bigger than us, but all the evidence indicates that was because they
>lived a healthy outdoor life _and_ had abundant food sources....Most
>modern descriptions of Neandertals indicate, with a shave, haircut
>and a suit, you'ld hardly take a second glance at them, either.

So, just how sure are we that you wouldn't chance to meet one of our cousins walking down the street. ;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 00:38:10 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Where Rats & Cats? 

> > > >Another one, 'Vilani and Vargr' is sometimes called 'Wogs & Dogs'.
> > > 
> > > _Cogs_ & Dogs.  Y'know, the little bits in the big machine...
> > 
> > I always called it 'Wogs & Dogs'.  As in, 'wogs' being people living
> in 
> > colonial territories under the British Empire, and considering the
> 'Rats' took 
> > 'em all over for the Rule of Man & considered them all second class
> citizens...
> > 
> 
> Let's call it "Frogs & Dogs".  Just to see if the .ca-types will get
> ticked off. [ducks] =:-o

That'll only maxx off the Quebeqois.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 00:52:17 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: .224 Boz or 10mm

	For the gun aficionados out there, you might want to look at last months GUNs
& AMMO.

	The .224 Boz is a police round designed to take out terrorists (in body armor
or through helmets at up to 100 meters), armored cars and APCs (at up to 50
meters, with the AP version).

Stats:
case length: .906 inch
Neck Angle: 32 degrees
Head diameter: .425 inches
Neck length: .147 inches
Overall length: 1.291 inches
Loading: Similar to compact rifle
Propellent: Win. 296/H4227/VV n120
Maximum burn rate: Alliant 2400
Primer: Small Rifle Primer
Pressure Levels : TBA
Compatibility: All known .224-inch projectiles from 30 grains up to and
including 55-grain AP and tracer.

All current loads are developed to 105% fill.

Velocity: 2000fps with 55grain bullet

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 00:57:30 -0500
From: Martyn Wheeler <pixie@interpath.com>
Subject: Re: Longbow II

Christopher Pratt wrote:

> Yeah but why all the imperial secrecary.  GT mentioned that
> the longbow II was never mentioned by name and only in even
> included in the most secret reports.  I had thought that it
> was used to gather scientific data on the galactic core.
> did they see something that they don't want people to know
> about, or are they just using it to spy on there own
> citizens.

Maybe Longbow II isn't receiving, but transmitting...  what if *it's* generating the
Empress Wave...?

:-)

Martyn
 ----pixie@interpath.com----Martyn Wheeler----DoD #293----1kspt=25-----
"Touch me with your soul, Bless me with your smile        / traci lords
 Give to me all your love, Baby watch me fly, watch me fly!"
   "High and wide open, reaching forever, I fly into the blue" -- Moby

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 00:57:52 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: teleportation

	The first 'teleportation' experiment has worked........
	In this months Popular Mechanics (p72) there is an article on ongoing
teleportation experiments.
	Within the next ten years they expect to be able to teleport a virus.

Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 01:03:42 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: personal drones

	The military is working on personal drones for soldiers.
	The tiny 6inch Microstar planes fly at the flick of a wrist, transmitting
data back to the soldier. They can include sensors to detect chemical weapons.

Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 01:07:21 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Concrete & Stealth

	The Russians are developing Concrete Subs (based on a British concept), they
can go down below 1800 feet, carry a crew of 6 and are hard to locate against
the sea bottom. They are armed with rocket powered torpedoes (230mph).

Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:59:15 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Bureacracy in the Imperium (was Re: Smuggling)

> I think, and this is the point, that much of the discussions
> stems from just this issue.  Is the Imperium subject to the
> kind of regulation and record keep/checking that we are used
> to in our modern western society?  Or does the absence of
> fast communications and the presence of a delocalized
> governement structure take its toll and lead to a less
> regulated/documented society?
> 
> My view is the latter.
> 
> ______________________________
> summers@alum.mit.edu
> (This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in
California.)
>

Sylea had government type 9 Impersonal Bureaucracy. As Capital, it still
does.  The Imperium as a whole  is an Impersonal Bureaucracy if I've ever
seen one.  The Imperial services and ministries are under very little
control from the citizens they "serve", even if you take "citizen" to read
"noble".  (Alternatively, you could regard it as a Charismatic Oligarchy,
or Feudal Technocracy, of course.)

There are limits to the ability of the Imperium to govern, of course. 
There are hints in M:0 that it could even be regarded as a cobbled together
collection of pocket empires ("subsector governments") in its early
centuries.

Even so, yes, I do think that not only does the Imperium has millions, if
not billions, of bureaucrats, these bureaucrats have expert systems to help
them read the regulations!  In extreme cases, we could even consider the
Imperial regulations to be something resembling law books, with precedent
(and analogies?)
being used in the massive number of exceptional cases.

Remember, the Imperium began as an alliance of the thoroughly
bureaucratised Sylean Federation with the Vilani.

How does it pay for these millions of bureaucrats?  The same way it pays
for the millions of navy personnel.  A million salaries is nothing to the
kind of bucks hanging around on a Hi-Pop world.  Let's do some numbers:

Assume each bureaucrat costs an average of 100000 credits.  This is roughly
based on starship crew figures from various editions.  Double it, if you
like:  so each bureaucrat costs 200000 credits.

1 million bureaucrats at 200000 credits costs .2 Trillion Credits.  Big
bucks, indeed.  An Imperial naval squadron is sometimes rule-of-thumbed as
costing 1 Trillion Credits (see Trillion Credit Squadron or Imperial
Squadrons)....

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:36:48 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Harassment Insurance

- ----------
> From: John Macek <macek@erols.com>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: Harassment Insurance
> Date: Friday, 20 November 1998 7:48
> 
> 
> 
> Ian or Katts wrote:
> 
> > I'm thinking about paperwork, customs and opportunities for blackmail,
> > harassment and so on.
> >
> > The first obvious thing that comes to mind is for our intrepid Free
Trader
> > captain to insure against it by putting some sort of larger
orginisation on
> > a retainer. I can imagine a firm of lawyers having an office at many of
the
> > worlds in a subsector, and our Free Trader slinging them, say, Cr 2500
a
> > month in order to have local legal support as and when needed.
> >
> > In G:T terms this would be a Contact or an Ally Group.
> >
> > The second obvious thing is to join the TAS. One of their traditional
roles
> > is to provide liaison with local authorities. Of course, if you *are* a
> > smuggler, and hiding behind the defenses of the TAS, then TAS may well
get
> > upset with you.
> >
> > Now, all this will cost, but it's better than facing the nightmare
alone ...
> 
> My favorite insurance?  A blaster....
> I'll pass on the Contact or Ally Group (Lawyers).
> Instead, I'll take a  200 point Ally.... with a blaster....
> ;-)
> 
> John
> (who thinks the Spinard Marches are wild and wooly!  ain't no room for
insurance
> men and lawyers in my campaign)

Obviously a GURPS player! :-)

<crusty old scout impersonation>
Now look, son, you newbies from the Core may think that we're a bunch of
hillbillies out here, but I'll tell you - don't mess with the Ministry of
Justice!  And our fleets and armies don't mess around either.  They ain't
like those chocolate soldiers in the Core.  Why I don't think the Imperial
Guard themselves hold a candle to the Duke of Regina's Huscarles.  And us
scouts are out there too...
</crusty old scout impersonation>

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:26:35 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Vilani COBOL, anyone?

Geonee version:  The references to the THROW-COYNS paragraph are commented
out, as are the ACCEPT PSIONIC and DISPLAY PSIONIC statements.

Vargr version:  Heavily uses GO TO statements.

The Zhodani prefer C:  it supports bit flicking.
The Hivers use C++: it allows them to manipulate objects.  (Or else they
use LISP...)
The Ithklur use the Hivers!
K'kree use Assembly Language:  it's traditional.
So do the Sword Worlders:  they're Real Men.
Newts use ADA.
No-one uses FORTRAN....

In basic CT (Book 2 & 3), it was possible to run ships on TL 6 or 7
computers!  There used to be jokes about tearing out 1 ton Model 1 machines
and replacing them with Apple IIs.  Presumably these would run BASIC.  

We used to argue that actually that was what was happening, and that the
tonnage included room for a desk, a chair, and shelves for the manuals and
floppy disks!  At higher TLs you got improved coffee making facilities for
the programmer!

While this particular bug has been fixed long ago, under FF&S1, it was
possible to refit/rebuild ships with TL 8 machines.  The main limitation
was that the sensors would be totally blind in combat.  This raises the
question: wouldn't even a TL 9 or TL 10 machine be the equivalent of a TL
15 laptop?

Handwave:  the exponential rates of growth in machine power we currently
have are related to the chip technology we are presently using, and will
slow drastically once it hits its physical limit. 

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

ps:  I'm glad to see my tax dollars are being used wisely in Centrelink!

- ----------
> From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Vilani COBOL, anyone?
> Date: Friday, 20 November 1998 10:57
> 
> Dear Folks -
> 
> Bruce Johnson sugested:
> >Does this mean Vilani ships run COBOL under VMS?
> 
> Certainly, Bruce. Here is a sample:
> 
> 
> PROGRAM-ID. JUMP2PGM.
> AUTHOR. ENERI SHUULIGLIIAM.
> INSTALLATION. VLAND JUMP CO-ORDINATION CENTRE.
> DATE-WRITTEN. 17/15/48.
> DATE-COMPILED. 02/16/48.
> SECURITY. OUR EYES ONLY.
> REMARKS. JUMP-2 CALCULATION PROGRAM. DON'T EVER CHANGE THIS!!!
>      :
>      :
> PROCEDURE DIVISION.
> 
> MAINLINE SECTION.
> 
>     PERFORM B-INIT.
>     PERFORM C-READ-JUMP-TAPE.
>     PERFORM D-PROCESS-JUMP-TAPE.
>     PERFORM E-SWITCH-ON-JUMP-DRIVE.
>     PERFORM F-DIM-THE-LIGHTS.
>     PERFORM G-POWER-UP-JUMP-DRIVE.
>     PERFORM H-INITIATE-JUMP.
>     PERFORM I-POWER-DOWN-JUMP-DRIVE.
>     PERFORM J-BRING-UP-THE-LIGHTS.
> 
> MAINLINE-EXIT.
>     STOP RUN.
>      :
>      :
> D-PROCESS-JUMP-TAPE SECTION.
>     PERFORM DD-JUMP-CALCULATIONS.
>     PERFORM C-READ-JUMP-TAPE.
>     IF NOT END-OF-FILE GO TO D-PROCESS-JUMP-TAPE.
> D-EXIT.
>     EXIT.
> 
> The Solomani used the superior COBOL-85, allowing in-line PERFORMS and
> removing redundant code:
> 
> PROGRAM-ID. JUMP3PGM.
>      :
> REMARKS. FILCHED AND MOD'ED FROM THE VILANI BY BOB.
>      :
>      :
>     PERFORM B-INIT.
>     PERFORM C-READ-JUMP-TAPE.
>     PERFORM UNTIL EOF
>        PERFORM D-DO-THE-CALCS
>        PERFORM C-READ-JUMP-TAPE
>     END-PERFORM.
>     PERFORM E-FIRE-UP-THE-PLANT.
>     PERFORM F-OFF-WE-GO.
>     PERFORM G-SWITCH-OFF-AND-HAVE-A-BEER.
> 
> ;-)
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
> http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
> "I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
> of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
> position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 23:55:07 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re combat systems [rant warning]

>From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
...
>The Odes of Traveller Odiosity:
...
>MT: Where Striker and High Guard meet
             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

  What more need be said?                                               :)

The CT Creed: "There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its' Product"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 00:11:20 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: RE: Variant wounding systems?

>Subject: RE: Variant wounding systems?
...
>a -1D damage modifier for most of the extremities (per DA:6), and a +1D for
>the head and possibly for part of the thorax. In either case, criticals will
>basically do double damage, so a basic CT SA round could easily do 4-8 D (3+1,
>doubled?) on a head hit. <splat!>
...
>>Ex: here is the chest location chart.
>>6-8	CHEST
>>	2	 Cardiac        	*Kill*
>>	3	 Artery         	10+14
>>	4-5	 Trachea        	7+10
>>	6-8	 General        	6
>>	9-10	 Ribs		4
>>	11	 Lungs		9
>>	12	 Artery		9+4

  Are these wound values from CT, TNE, or another system?

...
>>I wanted a system that mimics some aspects of real life, without being too
>>slow.  And deadly enough that most players avoided combat whenever possible.

  A worthy objective; I felt that Striker with some JTAS upgrades achieved
this, and I've been told that MT managed to do so as well.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 00:11:46 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: First Contact future history

...
>BTW - if you've got to brainwash me, I need to expand the question - when
>does Canada annexe the USA, Mexico and the UK?

  Hmm, didn't one of Heinlein's later novels have one of the characters note
that Canada had annexed the UK, and that this made about as much sense as
the reverse? 

 FWIW, I doubt that we'd want the others - maybe Jamaica or Cuba instead? :)

  I'll bet the 3I has had times when worlds really wanted to join and the
Empire just didn't want the headache...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 02:16:01 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: combat systems [no rant here<g>]

> That rule is specifically for NPC's, and has a DIFFERENT EFFECT upon PC's
> (double damage vs instant death). TNE WRITES IN NEARLY TOTAL PLAYER
> CHARACTER RULES IMMUNITY TO SMALL ARMS SNIPERS!
> </sarcasm>
> Thus, it fails to replicate consistantly.

One, the quick kill rule is explained *before* the ***recommendation*** of not
applying it to PCs.  It's also explicitly mentioned that referees might
disregard the ***recommendation*** of quick kill not applying to players.  I
use the T2k quick kill myself, but the even core system is not broken, but
provided w/ an option for not killing off the pc's as easy an npc's.

> And, at least one of my regular players seems to be a canon and rules
> lawyer, no names, but he's on the list.

Well apparently you let the rules laywers alter your reff'ing.  IMO, you
shouldn't ever let such a thing happen, but it's your game.  You want to be
bullied by your players (or anyone else), that's your business.   

(Gasp!  "canon lawyers?"  I'm glad none of my players are Traveller grognards.
That's another good thing about the New Era...  even if any of my players were
on the tml, any canon they could bring up would be answered w/ "that was pre-
Collapse bub, generations ago.")

> tried it, and many of the fixes, and found the whole bloody system lacking.
> Somebody asked why, I explained... then several others started making
> suggestions on how tio fix it.... I COULDN"T GIVE A %^&%*$&* any more.

No!  You said it was broken.  I was interested in just what you *thought* was
broken.  Next time prefix it w/ IMNSHO.  Then suffix it w/ "For my group."  It
is *not* broken.  It's broken for you and your rules lawyer player(s) (who
must've not read the 2nd to last paragraph of pg 285 (mk 1 mod 1).  

Personally, i just don't think you're up to a Good rules system. ; )

> TNE: where PC's are all Iron-Men.

lol.  Too bad u're so far from my campaign.  You'd find out how quickly how
easy it is to die.  Personally i think your game was poorly controled by the
ref.


Gary

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1167
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Friday, November 20 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1168



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Experience
Re: First Contact future history
Re: Bureacracy in the Imperium
Cargo Handling (re: Smuggling)
Re: Smuggling
Re: teleportation
I Re: Smuggling
Re: exotic assasin weapons anyone?
II Re: Smuggling
Re: Paul Hume & ???
Re: Smuggling
Re: [Real men...] 
Re: Harassment Insurance
Re: Geography of North America
Re: Smuggling
Re: Cargo Handling (re: Smuggling) 
Re: Geography of North America
Re: Geography of North America
Re: mostly G:T
AK 100 class Ketch

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 00:28:28 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Experience

>From: CardSharks@aol.com
>Subject: Re: Experience
...
>The phrasing is important and stresses the importance of a good GM and a
>personal strategy for skill use for each character.
...
>"best or most effectively used" can clearly be something other than "the most
>used" or "the skill with the highest level." So the Scout with Pilot-8 and
>Bribery-1 might find himself forced into a gunfight this episode and
>frantically defending himself and his friends with a Shotgun (default skill
>Shotgun-0. At the end of the episode, the GM says "That shotgun battle was
>great (etc)." and awards Shotgun-1*.

  That sounds like a most excellent system - a brief paragraph explaining
it (like that above) might be helpful [I just spent the evening listening
to newbie AD&D2 munchkins who simply don't know any better - roleplaying
nowadays apparently means storytelling which _really_ means over-the-top
power gaming; I must've missed that part].

  Without explanations I have trouble seeing how a lot of these potential
new players will be able to adapt.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 00:29:01 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: First Contact future history

...
>>  Yep - if the US annexed Canada and then allowed genuine elections,
>>you'd have self-avowed socialists in Congress - and probably three
>>or four more parties than you're used to.
>
>You are assuming that Canada's annexation of the US would
>essentially result in the conversion of the US to a parlimentary
>system.  The question is whether the "former USA" wouldn't
>just use their 90% of the vote to switch back to a "winner
>take all" presidental system.

  I think you've reversed it - a newly absorbed set of ex-US territories
couldn't be allowed the vote; however, Canadian provinces joining the US
would probably elect current Canadian parties (at least in name) to Congress;
it's my understanding that individual critters are elected based solely on
votes within their catchment area in your system?

...
>Actually, having grown up across the Niagra river from Canada, I'm not

  Oh sure, blame Ontario and the Maritimes on Lotusland, why don't you?
Those people are simply an incorrigible residuum...     :>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 00:54:44 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Bureacracy in the Imperium

>From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
>Subject: Bureacracy in the Imperium (was Re: Smuggling)
...
>of the Imperium employing millons of clerks, analysts, lawyers. I see the
>arguments that the IN is huge because of the tax income that is used on it.
>But how much taxes are used on the people working for the Imperium?

  FWIW, the vast majority of any compliance or enforcement personnel that
may exist in any TU will be employed by the individual member worlds, who
would in most cases be the ones losing revenues to smuggling (for example).

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 01:07:14 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Cargo Handling (re: Smuggling)

>From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
>Subject: re: Smuggling
...
>A Free Trader has to able to take anything - standard shipping containers
>when they are available, large machinery pieces, locally-produced
>shipment crates/boxes/barrels, even shrinkwrapped palletized loads.
>If the local wine comes in wooden casks hauled by furry quadrapeds,
>you take it.
...
>out of several dozen places in the US Virgin Islands where you need to
>move cargo, one (perhaps two) can handle containerized cargo. The rest
>make do.

  Actually, allowing the players extra fees for handling these loads
(or providing the containers and loading them) also provides both
extra revenue (reasonable or not) and a role for the typical PC who
doesn't fit the Pilot/Nav/`geer/Doc skill-set (at least in the games
I've been in) - Cargo Handling level zero ("Make/Break Bulk"?) could
justify the otherwise too useless PC being onboard.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 01:07:20 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Smuggling

>From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
>Subject: Re: Smuggling
...
>The point was not that information would never catch up.  It was
>that by the time it did, the trail would old and cold and the
>subjects would have had plenty of time to take measures.

  Both the ship and personnel will have their identities changed reliably?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 00:11:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Sword Worlder <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: teleportation

- ---Kagehira@aol.com wrote:
>
> 	The first 'teleportation' experiment has worked........

Good thing you put that in quotes.  It completely destroys the
original.  I'll pass on the test run, thanks.

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 01:21:04 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: I Re: Smuggling

>From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
>Subject: Re: Smuggling
...
>>Most commercial shipping with go at jump-3 or -4, tops. This is slower than
>>news ships will go (news is the most value-dense of all cargos).
>
>Most mail will, in fact, go on the self same commercial ships.
>Other than the X-boat route (which only works along the
>X-boat backbone and which is only jump-4 anyway) there
>aren't any special high speed ships visiting every world.
>None of the ships listed as being fitted for mail are
>especially fast and mail has to sit around on each world
>waiting for the next ships to the destination it needs to
>get to.

  This is proof that no one has ever had the thought of winning
mail contracts by providing a fast service on a small hull? Or
that no such business exists in the Imperium?

  I also seem to recall the theory that no merchant would want
to use any service other than the X-Boat system due to security
and/or privacy concerns.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:27:30 +0000
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: exotic assasin weapons anyone?

At 10:37 19/11/1998 -0800, Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
>Subject: Re: .22 cal.
>
>Ob. Trav. exotic assasin weapons anyone?
>***********************************************
>My favorite is the drone grav dart from Dune (I don't remember its
>real name).  It's a very small drone vehicle, maybe a little bigger
>than a fountain pen, with a sharp point, an anti-grav drive and a
>relatively simple sensor suite (maybe just visual/IR).  It's remotely
>controlled.  The operator tries to drive it into the target's body.  I
>thought the sequence in the movie was very well done.
>
I'm sure that the description in the book and film is closer to:

	A motion detector + IR + simple AI control

(that AI as in the sort of AI we have in the real world now, not TL16)

If a person was controlling something with a visual sensor, then lying
very still would not be a good defence measure.

Phil Kitching
- --
  Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
 "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 01:29:58 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: II Re: Smuggling

>From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
>Subject: Re: Smuggling
...
>>Oh, I'd say a ships log that indicates that they are moving away from, say,
>>Mora at an average of jump-3 would do it. So would a complete lack of
>>references to the ship in subsector's commercial shipping registers.
>
>I don't think these would be that rare at all.  Any ships that
>has to operate on cargoes of opportunity will have to go where
>the cargo takes him, and then go where the cargoes on the next
>world are going.  To not take a cargo because it goes
>out of your area and sit around loosing money doesn't make
>much sense to me.

  What proportion of small traders are that fast? Even if economic
J-3+ free traders are relatively common (unlikely by most T* design
systems that I'm aware of) their trade/movement patterns should be
a random walk over time (within the constraints of the structure of
the region that they're in); a consistent run from an administrative
center (for those who feel that internal security concerns will be
deliberately compromised by total compartmentalization of such functions;
strange IMHO, but it could happen) would be a tip off which traffic records
could give an insight into the likelihood of its' occurring naturally.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 22:47:49 +1300
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: Re: Paul Hume & ???

> Actually I though the other person was Robert Charotte (but than
I'd have to
>look again).


It's "Charette" on the cover of Aftermath.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 20:04:09
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

>Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 16:12:48 -0800 (PST)
>From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
>Subject: Re: Smuggling
>
>Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:13:22 -0400, Michel Vaillancourt
><misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
>>        Here in the RealWorld(tm) Port of Halifax, we get one to three "G3"
>>container ships and a couple of coastal frieghters every day.  Call us a
>>"Class B" port...  Canada customs databases the manifest list for every ship
>>that comes and goes, and "targets" specific shipments for inspection.  For
>>example, if a given container originated in Colombia, then it gets higher
>>priority than one that originated in London.  Given that a G3 ship carries
>>~2000 TFUs, they manage to break seals under warranty and phyiscally inspect
>>an average of 0.3% of traffic.  Of course, because of the paperwork
>>pre-screening, these are the *top* of the curve for contraband probability.
>
>The interesting point, is that you desribing inspection of
>the records that came with the ship against the contents of the
>cargo.  This brings up the question, since the world has
>communications that the Imperium can only dream of, do they
>check documents against what is recorded in at the source
>port?  If not, then you have to wonder why you would expect an
>Imperium that has much slower communications to do so.
>

David, mate. Commercial starships are in port for at least 24 hours.
Therefore, you would have a record on the Commercial Starship Register
unless you

(1) had a higher jump than the highest normal shipping
(2) hung out at a series of low-traffic ports, or
(3) fueled up and went everywhere you went

In this case, I think the authorities would be interested in you.

You check the cargo against the manifest.

You politely ask the captain where they have been, checking it up with a
couple of basic questions.

If everything matches, then you say 'have a nice day' and file your report.

If they dont, you ask them about their future travel plans. You send a
message ahead to all ports in range, and ask them to keep an eye on ship x.
If you are feeling really nasty, you make the offer to hire them to carry
cargo x from the starport to a naval base 4 parsecs thataway. The courtesy
detail of two marines to keep an eye on the cargo is a, well, courtesy
detail (hey, thats a really nasty job for ship-less PCs ... riding shotgun
on 40 dtons of guff on board a probable pirate/smuggler).

If ship x never shows up, then you put out an all-ports bulletin.

>The problem is that the same advances in technology will give
>you techniques to get around these measures.  The history of
>crime is one of much confidence in new technologies that will
>eliminate new types of crime only to have them circumvented by
>some new technology or approach by the criminals.
>

Yep. Nothing beats an actual witness. And travel times count against
criminals too ... the fastest you can get a message to your confederates to
get at witness x is the fastest ship going there.


Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 05:20:09 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: [Real men...] 

> >A. Present it to the Prime Minister
> >B. Present it to the Secretary General of the United Nations.
> >C. Take it apart.
> 
> D. Give it back. TINSTAAFL.

<chuckle>

Beware of geeks bearing grifts?

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 05:26:26 -0500
From: John Macek <macek@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Harassment Insurance

Ian or Katts wrote:

> Unfortunatly, the Spinward Marches is also highly militarized, and the site
> of most of the Imperium's wars over the last 300 years.
>
> Personally, I think by the 1100s it would be a lot more like Checkpoint
> Charlie than Kansas City in the days of the gunfighter.

I disagree.  But that's just my opinion.  :-)

The bottom line for me is, I'm playing a game to have fun, and to allow my
players to have fun. If having fun means "starships and sixguns" then so be it.

I'm glad you have fun playing in your style..

> I really think that we should do a 'Spinward Marches in the 500s'
> sourcebook, for the people who really really want a minimum bureacracy,
> minimal regulation, maximum piracy, maximum bring-your-own-guns campaign.

When I started playing Traveller in the Spinward Marches back in *gasp* 1979, I
think most people saw it as being that way.  IMHO, as more and more was
published, the tone of the background changed.  As much as I love the DGP stuff
for its artwork and content, I also feel the had a big hand in changing the
atmosphere of the game.  To me, the Trojan Reach sector was a little explored
area of space (based on my reading of adventure #? Leviathan).  The Domain of
Deneb sector data changes the whole aspect.

I'm happy playing in my militarized frontier sector, with it's four TL 15
worlds, and average tech of 7.5 or so.  This doesn't mean I devalue anyone
elses version.  It's just that I prefer mine.

John
(and yes, I do play GURPS, but I'm not a minmaxer type.  I'd rather see someone
play a character they like than play a character that has been point balanced.)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:19:34 +0000 (GMT)
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Geography of North America

On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:

> Beg to differ - Except, I believe, for a small sliver on the
> southern east coast of the island, it _is_ part of North America,
> i.e., it is on the North American tectonic plate.  It is actually
> more a part of North America than San Francisco or Los Angeles
> are.
> 
> --
> Jeff Zeitlin
> jzeitlin@cyburban.com
> 

My hero .... ;-) As this is what I was trying to say ....

Now Ewan, write 100 times :-

	I must express myself more clearly in emails

I must express myself more clearly in emails
I must express myself more clearly in emails

and no not with a cut and paste ...

Ewan

	Ewan Quibell
	Data Communications Technician        The Game's afoot:
	Computer Centre                       Follow your spirit, and apon
	University of Brighton                  this charge
                                              Cry 'God for Harry, England,
	E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              and Saint George !'

                                                    Henry V 3:1
	#include<stddisclamer.h>                    W. Shakespeare

	My spelling is entierly due to dyslexia, typoes and poetic license

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 23:26:30 +1300
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

>>Not without an army of inspectors, and not until the goods are
offloaded,
>>you don't.  Going into a ship's cargo hold and cracking open
stowed and
>>sealed containers to find out if they really contain what they say
they do
>>is a good way to make honest merchants hate you.

>
>        We did this as part of the UN sanctions in the Red Sea
against
>Iraq...  250 ships in 90 days;  three teams of 9 armed Naval
personell
>operating from RHIBs with gunship support.  Now, admittedly, all
they were
>doing was eye-ball filtering the cargo manifest for "funny-looking"
>containers and then cracking those ones...  however, in conjunction
with 5
>other ships from other UN nations, in the 90 days on station we
turned back
>three merchantmen for carrying stuff not allowed to be shipped to
Iraq.


And how much got through ?

That was also a damned expensive operation that no _Customs_
organization could have afforded, the equivalent of an INS battle
fleet being put on customs duty.

And only INS would be able to get away with it in Traveller, as the
starship and starport itself is extra-territorial to the customs
authority, in most cases, they only get to inspect what leaves the
starport

>WORM drive on it that has recorded every place it has ever been...
>micro-reciever tied to a dedicated computer system in the cartridge
>"listens" for the "You are at <PORTNAME>.  The date is <DATE:TIME>"
signal
>that is transmmited every 15 mins by the starport authority.

And you're thinking 1980's tech. Anything like that is so easy to
crack or fool, no sane Customs authority would ever trust it.

Of course, if you're one of those that believes ship transponders
can't be hacked....

Also, no Merchant is _required_ to carry any of these devices, and
not  all civilisations you are trading with would even have the
technology to read such things anyway.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 05:42:14 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Cargo Handling (re: Smuggling) 

> ...
> >A Free Trader has to able to take anything - standard shipping containers
> >when they are available, large machinery pieces, locally-produced
> >shipment crates/boxes/barrels, even shrinkwrapped palletized loads.
> >If the local wine comes in wooden casks hauled by furry quadrapeds,
> >you take it.
> ...
> >out of several dozen places in the US Virgin Islands where you need to
> >move cargo, one (perhaps two) can handle containerized cargo. The rest
> >make do.
> 
>   Actually, allowing the players extra fees for handling these loads
> (or providing the containers and loading them) also provides both
> extra revenue (reasonable or not) and a role for the typical PC who
> doesn't fit the Pilot/Nav/`geer/Doc skill-set (at least in the games
> I've been in) - Cargo Handling level zero ("Make/Break Bulk"?) could
> justify the otherwise too useless PC being onboard.

If the players are providing the containers, what happens when they accept a load already in standard containers?  They gotta leave *theirs* behind cause there's no room.  A 3 dt 'can' takes up the same volume empty or full.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 05:53:31 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Geography of North America

Ewan Quibell wrote:

> My hero .... ;-) As this is what I was trying to say ....
>
> Now Ewan, write 100 times :-
>
>         I must express myself more clearly in emails
>
> I must express myself more clearly in emails
> I must express myself more clearly in emails
>
> and no not with a cut and paste ...

Try shortening that to

"I must express myself cleary."

That should cut down on the typing.  ;-)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 05:55:34 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Geography of North America

Jeff Zeitlin wrote:

> >And don't forget Denmark's Greenland.
>
> That's "Kaliaat Nunaat" to you!  A small number of years ago,
> Denmark granted them home rule, and officially accepted a
> petition to rename the administrative district according to the
> wishes of the indigenous tribes.

I'll call it that when Danes stop saying they're one of the largest
countries in the world because they 'own' Greenland.

:-)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 05:57:39 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: mostly G:T

Ian or Katts wrote:

> >From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
> >Subject: Re: Harassment Insurance
> >
> >Might I recommend the services of the law firm of Dewey, Cheatham, and
> >Howe?  This prestigious Spinward Marches law firm provides my Noble
> >character with _excellent_ (and hideously expensive) legal
> >representation.
> >
>
> I wouldnt hire Dewey Cheatem and Howe. They are Marxists, and thus
> politically unreliable.

They're not a law firm at all.  IIRC, they're the production
company of Car Talk.  They're in the Boston phonebook.
Would you like the number?

;-)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 00:00:04 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: AK 100 class Ketch

Yet another ship from the Interstellar Wars. As usual, designed with Andy 
Akin's wonderful FFS2 spreadsheet.

Kobe Maru, AK 100 class Ketch (FF&S v2)
Designed by Andrew Moffatt-Vallance

Statistics
 Tons: 100 Td (SL Short Rnd Cylinder Hypersonic)
 Crew: 2/4
 Cargo: 25 Td (1 x Small Cargo Hatch, Handling: 1 x 50 ton)
 Volume: 1400m3
 Passengers High/Med: 0/4
 Cost: 17.163 MCr (25% bulk discount)
 Mass (L/C): 1077t/679t
 Passengers Low: 0
 Maintenance Points: 28
 Dimensions: 19.8m x 9.9m x 9.9m
 Troops/Science: 0/0
 Tech Level: 10 (9/10)
 Size: 8
 Frozen Watch: 0

Electronics
 Controls: Dynamic, High automation. 3 x Comp (CM: 1.0 CP: 1.0). No bridge.
 Communications: 1 x Radio (50,000km, 0.02MW). 1 x Laser (1,000AU, 0MW).
 Sensors: 1 x PEMS (12.5 [1.6mkm], 0MW). 1 x AEMS (8, 0.06MW).
 Survey/Science:
 ECM:
 Signatures: Vis:0, IR:-0.5 (-0.5 at 19MW, -1 at 2MW), Act:0, Neu:-1, Grav:-2

Weaponry
 1 x PD Laser (+0) 1/0-0-0-0 [1,50/2-1-0-0] (LR) [Point defence ROF 800]

Performance
 1 Jump (10 Td/pc fuel)
 0.2/0.2 Maneuver (Fusion: 0MW, 2.7 G-hours)
 1/1.5 Contra-grav (18MW) [TL 9]
 532kph/742kph Atmosphere (Cruise: 399kph/557kph)
 0 Power (Fission: 20MW, 1yr; Fuel Cell: 0.5MW, 6hr)
 0 Battery
 10 Fuel (Scoop: 3 Purif: 4.4, 2MW)
 0/8/0/0/0 Accomodations (8 x Sanitary Fittings)
 104 Person/Weeks Life Support (Type: Extended, Normal Food [Stored])
 0 G-Comp
 0 ESA
 0 Sandcasters
 0 Damper Turrets
 0 Damper Screen
 0 Meson Screen
 0 Force Field
 0 Gravtics
 0 [20] Armor, 8 Structure

Features
 1 x Decontamination Airlock
 1 x Ship's locker (0.05 Td ea.)
 1 x Gym (2.5 Td ea.)
 1 x 10 Td Fuel Bladder (1 Td ea.)
 1 x Ordinary Galley (Cap: 8)

Small Craft

Backups
 Drives:
 Screens:
 Communications:
 Sensors:
 Survey/Science:
 ECM:
 Power & Fuel:

Crew Details
 2 x Helm
 1 x Gunner/Steward
 1 x Medical

The AK 100 has a permanent place in the history of the Terran Free Traders.
First designed for the European Union during the 1st Interstellar War, the
AK 100 was envisioned as a cheap reliable utility freighter for rear area
duties and was produced in quantity by several of Earths power blocs. The
AK 100 performed adequately in this role and nearly two hundred examples 
were produced during the war. With the end of the war, the AK 100 was quickly
replaced by more capable designs in Naval service and surplus AK 100's were
placed on the disposal lists. These surplus ships proved to be very popular
with the many fledgling Free Traders and quickly became one of the vessel of
choice for many of them. In 2121 AD the legendary Terran industrialist Yukio
Hasagua set up the Free Trade Foundation to foster the development of the
Free Traders and the FTF reopened production of the AK 100 and made them
available at heavily subsidised prices. Production of the AK 100 was to
continue until 2146 AD, when it was replaced by the much improved AK 111.
None the less, they remained a staple of the Free Traders until late in the
Interstellar Wars.

The AK 100's were an extremely simple design with few comforts for 
passengers or crew. They were fitted with a primitive contragrav drive to enable 
them to reach orbit and a simple fusion drive to push them out to a safe jump
distance. They were crampt and had no gravitic compensation (entailing long
periods in freefall). However they were also exceptionally rugged and
reliable, with many examples remaining in service for over 100 years (at
least four survived into the Long Night). Most Free Traders removed the point
defense laser (only suitable to provide emergancy defence whilst the ship
jumped) and used the turret to stow additional cargo. The AK 100 carried an
integral fuel bladder which enabled them to carry sufficent fuel for two
consecutive jumps (the bladders took up 9 Td of cargo space when inflated).

It was an AK 100 (the Kobe Maru) which sparked the 3rd Interstellar War in
2146 AD. The Kobe Maru was engaged in 'speculative trade' (smuggling) to the
Vegan world of Tyudhuar when it was challenged by two Vilani Gadni type 56m
Escorts. The Kobe Maru brought herself to a dead stop, apparently awaiting
bording by one of the Escorts. As the first escort approched to dock, the
Kobe Maru fired her fusion drive at a range of under 2km, destroying the
Escort and then jumped out of the system. The Vilani Diikagkarunii claimed
that the Kobe Maru had been engaged in a covert operation to provide support
to Vegan dissidents and used the incident as a pretext to launch and invasion
of the Terran Confederation. The Kobe Maru herself was never heard from again
and is presumed to have been lost due to a misjump.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1168
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Friday, November 20 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1169



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: teleportation
Re: AK 100 class Ketch
Re: Concrete & Stealth
Re: teleportation
Re: The CT Creed
Re: Re Contact Hits
Re: Where Rats & Cats? 
Re: teleportation
Re: Experience
Re: Shiiva Deckplans
Re: teleportation
Re: Concrete & Stealth
Re: Smuggling
I Re: Smuggling
Re: teleportation
Re: Longbow II
Re: teleportation
RE: Traveller-digest V1998 #1167
RE: Variant wounding systems?
Re: Longbow II
Re: Longbow II

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:46:42 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: teleportation

On Fri, 20 Nov 1998, Sword Worlder wrote:

> ---Kagehira@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > 	The first 'teleportation' experiment has worked........
> 
> Good thing you put that in quotes.  It completely destroys the
> original.  I'll pass on the test run, thanks.

Isn't that what 'teleportation' is supposed to be - transforming matter
into energy (thereby destroying it) and transform it back on another place?
(Not psionic teleportation, IMTU)

Or would you rather like to make a copy from the original, especially
with viruses?

But neither do I want to make a test pilot for this - even when it's
considered fully functional ....

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:51:30 +0000
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: AK 100 class Ketch

At 00:00 21/11/1998 +1300, "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" wrote:

>Yet another ship from the Interstellar Wars. As usual, designed with Andy 
>Akin's wonderful FFS2 spreadsheet.
>
>Kobe Maru, AK 100 class Ketch (FF&S v2)
>Designed by Andrew Moffatt-Vallance

<snip of interesting "small packet" ship>

>Weaponry
> 1 x PD Laser (+0) 1/0-0-0-0 [1,50/2-1-0-0] (LR) [Point defence ROF 800]

If you use a short range fire control, does the factor get above 0 ?

:-)



- --
  Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
 "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 06:48:10 -0500
From: "johannes" <johannes@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Concrete & Stealth

- -----Original Message-----
From: Kagehira@aol.com <Kagehira@aol.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Friday, November 20, 1998 1:10 AM
Subject: Concrete & Stealth


> The Russians are developing Concrete Subs (based on a British concept),
they
>can go down below 1800 feet, carry a crew of 6 and are hard to locate
against
>the sea bottom. They are armed with rocket powered torpedoes (230mph).
>


Go down yes, but will it come back up?  With Russians, that's not always a
given!

John

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 06:40:03 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: teleportation

Kagehira@aol.com wrote:
> 
>         The first 'teleportation' experiment has worked........
>         In this months Popular Mechanics (p72) there is an article on ongoing
> teleportation experiments.
>         Within the next ten years they expect to be able to teleport a virus.
> 
Great.  They're going to duplicate a sneeze.  ;-)

> Bryan

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 06:47:59 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: The CT Creed

Steven Hudson wrote:
> 
> >From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
> ...
> >The Odes of Traveller Odiosity:
> ...
> >MT: Where Striker and High Guard meet
>              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
>   What more need be said?                                               :)
> 
> The CT Creed: "There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its' Product"

Or, in the original Arabic:

"La la'aba ila' al-musaafir, wa al-haaris al-'aalii risaalat al-la'aba."

(Literal translation:  "There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard
is the message of the Game."  I chose this rephrasing to replicate more
closely the Arabic of the Isalamic declaration of faith.)

(Note:  the ' symbol is used to represent both the letter "ain" and the
glottal stop.)

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 07:56:34 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Re Contact Hits

At 12:20 AM 20/11/98 +0200, you wrote:
>On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, William F. Hostman wrote:
>> Realistc contact missiles aren't going to impact too terribly fast.... the
>> terminal guiodance phase requires them to maneuver in. Contact space
>> munitions are likely to close, grapple, and THEN detonate. 
>
> Which would leave plenty of time for even the most rudimentary point
>defese system to shoot the missile to scrap. The "good sensors" needed to
>acieve a contact hit (and i'm not saying such don't exist in Traveller)
>would cost far too much to put into every one of the dozens of missiles
>you'd need to get even one hit.
> 
        Hi, Eppu!

        IMCTU, I have always presumed that missiles were built like an
active-homing version of the WW2 ASW "Hegehog" system...  dump enough
munitons into a probability area and you will damage *something*.  Hence why
with High Guard, more missiles is more basic USP.  In Traveller, the
accuracy of the probability area is degraded by distance and improved by
computer programs like "Predict" and the seeker tips on the missiles themselves.
        Given in current military concepts, if it costs a million dollars
(guess cost on a Harpoon) to reduce a $300 million destroyer or light
cruiser to scrap, then you *want* that million-dollar missile.  Lets say
going with a cheaper sensor pack in the snoot knocks the cost down to
$100,000 each, but you are less likely to get a kill (and therefore more
likley to get drubbed yourself, with resulting costs).  I'd argue the
million-dollar missile is cheaper than repairing your ship and replacing
lost crew even if you do kill the other ship.
        Also, in the CT equipment rules, look at how the cost of
communicators goes....  TL 5, Continental Range (5000km) is 300kg & Cr15000.
At TL 12, same range for 1Kg and Cr5000.  So what is a emmisons-seeker tip
that goes active at 10Mm for terminal really gonna cost?  Not Much, compared
to the "kill" cost of the target vessel.
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 07:04:54 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Where Rats & Cats? 

At 09:11 PM 19/11/98 -0800, you wrote:
>---"Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net> wrote:
>>
>> > At 06:50 PM 11/19/1998 -0500, you wrote:
>> > >Another one, 'Vilani and Vargr' is sometimes called 'Wogs & Dogs'.
>> > 
>> > _Cogs_ & Dogs.  Y'know, the little bits in the big machine...
>> 
>> I always called it 'Wogs & Dogs'.  As in, 'wogs' being people living
>in 
>> colonial territories under the British Empire, and considering the
>'Rats' took 
>> 'em all over for the Rule of Man & considered them all second class
>citizens...
>> 
>
>Let's call it "Frogs & Dogs".  Just to see if the .ca-types will get
>ticked off. [ducks] =:-o
>
        /me e-mails SwordWorlder an armed antimatter device.

        (Hey, we contributed to the first nukes, why not the first AMB?)
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:18:38 +0000
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: teleportation

At 00:57 20/11/1998 EST, Kagehira@aol.com wrote:
>	The first 'teleportation' experiment has worked........
>	In this months Popular Mechanics (p72) there is an article on ongoing
>teleportation experiments.
>	Within the next ten years they expect to be able to teleport a virus.

And they said TNE could never happen.

<duck and run>

Phil
- --
  Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
 "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 21:43:24 -0600
From: "James Pearson" <jdpearson@wr.net>
Subject: Re: Experience

My players and I much prefer a system that offers experience.  Life (especially 
in MTU) doesn't always pay out in cash and prizes ... and my players love to 
get experience points.

I've played only a few other games (GURPS, Champions, Shadowrun, AD&D, 
CT & T4).  I like the way T4 limited experience to a skill that was used during 
the adventure (makes sense - unless you're studying to improve or learn a skill, 
in which case see the GURPS rules), and then there was always a chance that 
you "didn't get it."

This also made it more difficult for characters to have outrageous skill levels 
since the higher the level, the tougher it got to improve.  This also seems 
logical to me.

I will be running GT soon, and will probably dish out EP as some hybrid of 
these systems.


 -- James Pearson
"The purpose of a referee is to present obstacles 
for players to overcome as they go about seeking 
their goals, not to constantly make trouble for them.
This is a very subtle distinction ..."

The Traveller Book, p. 12

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/4089

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:11:17 -0500
From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
Subject: Re: Shiiva Deckplans

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 19:32:21 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Shiiva Deckplans
traveller@mpgn.com writes:

Part of the drives is probably easiest.
This illustrates a major problem with the GT design system, though: not
knowing how much of any component is the power plant.
**************************
about 1/2 the manuver and jump drives is a good approximation.
>
Hm. Any chance of getting these ships with a 1.5m grid? Or maybe a 1m grid
(rather than 1yd)?
*******************
sure, using the official "Good Enough For Gaming" conversion rules:  All
distances in yards become distances in meters...The deckplans are now in
meters for your game.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:10:12 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: teleportation

At 12:57 AM 11/20/98 EST, you wrote:
>	The first 'teleportation' experiment has worked........
>	In this months Popular Mechanics (p72) there is an article on ongoing
>teleportation experiments.
>	Within the next ten years they expect to be able to teleport a virus.
>
>Bryan
>
Uh oh...

Can anyone see a potential terrorist application here?

Teleport the virus into whom?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:17:07 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: Concrete & Stealth

At 06:48 AM 11/20/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Kagehira@aol.com <Kagehira@aol.com>
>To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
>Date: Friday, November 20, 1998 1:10 AM
>Subject: Concrete & Stealth
>
>
>> The Russians are developing Concrete Subs (based on a British concept),
>they
>>can go down below 1800 feet, carry a crew of 6 and are hard to locate
>against
>>the sea bottom. They are armed with rocket powered torpedoes (230mph).
>>
>
>
>Go down yes, but will it come back up?  With Russians, that's not always a
>given!
>
Or even a requirement from what I hear.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:28:20 -0500
From: Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

"David P. Summers" wrote:
>
> The problem is that the same advances in technology will give
> you techniques to get around these measures.  The history of
> crime is one of much confidence in new technologies that will
> eliminate new types of crime only to have them circumvented by
> some new technology or approach by the criminals.
> 

Absolutely.  The whole system is set up on the assumption that traders
are law abiding citizens making a buck by moving legal products through
legal means.  If you take that away, then you HAVE to have a system for
checking/monitoring all the cargoes, or at least a portion until the
inspector has a feel for whether or not there is contraband.

Of course there are lots of ways around all this stuff.  Always will
be.  It's sophant nature.  Even the Zho's I'd say.

The Count

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:47:48 -0500
From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
Subject: I Re: Smuggling

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 01:21:04 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: I Re: Smuggling
>From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
>Subject: Re: Smuggling
...
>>Most commercial shipping with go at jump-3 or -4, tops. This is slower
than
>>news ships will go (news is the most value-dense of all cargos).
>
>Most mail will, in fact, go on the self same commercial ships.
>Other than the X-boat route (which only works along the
>X-boat backbone and which is only jump-4 anyway) there
>aren't any special high speed ships visiting every world.
>None of the ships listed as being fitted for mail are
>especially fast and mail has to sit around on each world
>waiting for the next ships to the destination it needs to
>get to.
  This is proof that no one has ever had the thought of winning
mail contracts by providing a fast service on a small hull? Or
that no such business exists in the Imperium?
******************8
The people who start them tend to have 'accidents'...such as blundering
into Imperial Navy 'Live Fire Exercises'.......There is a reason the
X-Boats are only jump 4 (IMTU of course).


  I also seem to recall the theory that no merchant would want
to use any service other than the X-Boat system due to security
and/or privacy concerns.
******************
Nah, its the other way around...no merchants *want* to use the X-Boat
system due to security
and/or privacy concerns.  Of course the Imperium reads the mail, and they
only accept non encrypted data to make it easier for them.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:56:52 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: teleportation

At 09:10 AM 20/11/98 -0500, you wrote:
>At 12:57 AM 11/20/98 EST, you wrote:
>>	The first 'teleportation' experiment has worked........
>>	In this months Popular Mechanics (p72) there is an article on ongoing
>>teleportation experiments.
>>	Within the next ten years they expect to be able to teleport a virus.
>>
>>Bryan
>>
>Uh oh...
>
>Can anyone see a potential terrorist application here?
>
>Teleport the virus into whom?
>

        Heck, in Starfleet Battles, the easiest way to end a fight is to
TPort a antimatter device onto the other guys bridge once you knock a shield
down....  Now *that* is a terrorist application...
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:30:31 -0500
From: Christopher Pratt <valen@gatecom.com>
Subject: Re: Longbow II

Martyn Wheeler wrote:
> 
> Christopher Pratt wrote:
> 
> > Yeah but why all the imperial secrecary.  GT mentioned that
> > the longbow II was never mentioned by name and only in even
> > included in the most secret reports.  I had thought that it
> > was used to gather scientific data on the galactic core.
> > did they see something that they don't want people to know
> > about, or are they just using it to spy on there own
> > citizens.
> 
> Maybe Longbow II isn't receiving, but transmitting...  what if *it's* generating the
> Empress Wave...?

My inexperience shows again...what is the empress wave?



> 
> :-)
> 
> Martyn
>  ----pixie@interpath.com----Martyn Wheeler----DoD #293----1kspt=25-----
> "Touch me with your soul, Bless me with your smile        / traci lords
>  Give to me all your love, Baby watch me fly, watch me fly!"
>    "High and wide open, reaching forever, I fly into the blue" -- Moby

- -- 
later
christopher pratt
valen@gatecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:33:08 +0000
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: teleportation

At 10:56 20/11/1998 -0400, Michel Vaillancourt wrote:
>At 09:10 AM 20/11/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>At 12:57 AM 11/20/98 EST, you wrote:
>>>	The first 'teleportation' experiment has worked........
>>>	In this months Popular Mechanics (p72) there is an article on ongoing
>>>teleportation experiments.
>>>	Within the next ten years they expect to be able to teleport a virus.
>>
>>Can anyone see a potential terrorist application here?
>>
>>Teleport the virus into whom?
>>
>        Heck, in Starfleet Battles, the easiest way to end a fight is to
>TPort a antimatter device onto the other guys bridge once you knock a shield
>down....  Now *that* is a terrorist application...

I beg to differ.
Whilst you could teleport an assault squad into the bridge who could
shoot half the people their and destroy their consoles, and then
teleport them safely back 1/32nd of a second later...

I'm sure that anti-matter bombs had to be teleported at least 10,000km in
front of the ship.

(probably play balance or something).

However you have to remember that you could put a large thermonuclear
device into a shuttle which could be landed into a shuttle bay and then
explode (inside the shields) for only 18 points (minor damage to a cruiser).

Gotta love those level 5 confinement fields :-)

Phil Kitching
- --
  Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
 "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:49:56 -0500
From: "Bob Sanders" <bsanders@amghome.com>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1998 #1167

Steven writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: RE: Variant wounding systems?
>>Ex: here is the chest location chart.
>>6-8	CHEST
>>	2	 Cardiac        	*Kill*
>>	3	 Artery         	10+14
>>	4-5	 Trachea        	7+10
>>	6-8	 General        	6
>>	9-10	 Ribs		4
>>	11	 Lungs		9
>>	12	 Artery		9+4

  Are these wound values from CT, TNE, or another system?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



From my system, loosely based on MT, with some T2K, and other home rules,
but roughly twice the damage.

I needed more scale.  When all the pistols do 2D, I had a problem.

For example:
The body pistol does 2 dice damage, the revolver does 3, Magnum does 4, Snub
Pistol with HE does 6, etc. . .

I also include Armor Pen values, so that even light armor can save you.

...
>>I wanted a system that mimics some aspects of real life, without being too
>>slow.  And deadly enough that most players avoided combat whenever
possible.

  A worthy objective; I felt that Striker with some JTAS upgrades achieved
this, and I've been told that MT managed to do so as well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Agreed!

My problem is that I wanted to separate the physical stats from the damage.
(they are used to figure the hit points, but that is it) It is hard for some
players to understand what it means to loose your STR, but if you tell them
that your hand has just been blown off, you are loosing lots of blood, and
going into shock, they understand.

Just using the stats is a little too sterile for me, it did not convey the
horror and fear that _combat_ has.

Bob

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:23:37 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: RE: Variant wounding systems?

At 11:45 AM 19/11/98 -0500, you wrote:
>From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)

>  What sort of location/bleeding rules did you devise?
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
>I reply:
>
>Simple once you get the hang of it, I have a chart that uses 2D6 twice.
>Roll, and look at the chart.
>
>Ex: here is the chest location chart.
[Table and details clipped]
>I have found that as soon as a PC is hit, the player starts screaming for
>another PC with medic skills to get there ASAP.  I have had PC's get into
>arguments about who should receive medial attention first.  IMHO this is
>VERY realistic.  Having been in that situation once or twice.
>
        
        Hi, Bob!
        Question for you?  How does this work with Aliens and potentially
different physiology?  I am specifically thinking about CT:Double Adventure
5 - The Chamax Plague.  The Chamax required one solid hit of 12+ damage for
their acid sacs to rupture, destroying the creature.  All the other organs
were covered by a "soft spongy tissue" that basically mean that anything
other than a puncture to the acid sac was a no-effect.  I am curious how you
would handle that.  Admittedly, it is an extreme case, but it does
high-light a problem with damage multiplier tables presuming human physiology.
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:52:06 -0600
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Longbow II

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com> wrote:

> Well, longbow II is apparently a phased-array sensor with an effective
> diameter of tens of parsecs.  The implication that jump drives are accurate
> enough (in terms of range) to allow doing interferometry between
> observations at the ends of a jump is...disturbing (sufficiently so that
> longbow II, at least in the GT writeup, will never show up in any campaign
> _I'm_ running).  In any case, the point is that you can see centimeter-sized
> objects in the galactic core (though I don't htink it has a sufficient
> collection array for that to really be true -- that's just its resolution.)

I've got *weird* gearhead tendencies.  I'm building Longbow.

To be more precise, I've been modeling it with Bruce Alan Macintosh's
Definitive Sensor Rules and some physics.  As defined, Longbow is a
passive EMS interferometer with an effective diameter of about eighty
terameters.  Compare this to the orbit of Pluto, which is only about
twelve terameters in diameter.  The Longbow array is three light-days
across!

I've checked the resolution numbers given that diameter.  At a range
of 1500 parsecs, it's seven meters in 10 micron IR, and 40 centimeters
in 550 nanometer visible light.  At a radio frequency of 900 MHz, I
think resolution is 235 kilometers. 

The big question is sensitivity.  1500 parsecs is nearly range 22.
The rules limit tech-14 sensors to a sensitivity of 16; you can't
build it much better anyway since a sensitivity-16 science sensor
is going to cost TCr 5.  (Bruce, is there a technical reason for
the DSR sensitivity limitiation, or is the limit there just because
more sensitive sensors are so darn *expensive*?)

In IR, Longbow can easily work up +2 in modifiers.  A target ship
that's surprised and running active loses another +2.  Under these
conditions, a ship accelerating at 3G with a 10000 MW power plant
and no masking is just detectable, assuming no other modifiers. 
 
I'd like to make Longbow sensitivity-16.5 to give it better odds;
in fact, I'd like to make it sensitivity-17, but I'm sceptical 
that the Imperium could hide that much money in a secret project.

  -- Steve Bonneville
  

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:13:48 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Longbow II

Steven Bonneville wrote:

> Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com> wrote:
>
> > Well, longbow II is apparently a phased-array sensor with an effective
> > diameter of tens of parsecs.  The implication that jump drives are accurate
> > enough (in terms of range) to allow doing interferometry between
> > observations at the ends of a jump is...disturbing (sufficiently so that
> > longbow II, at least in the GT writeup, will never show up in any campaign
> > _I'm_ running).  In any case, the point is that you can see centimeter-sized
> > objects in the galactic core (though I don't htink it has a sufficient
> > collection array for that to really be true -- that's just its resolution.)
>
> I've got *weird* gearhead tendencies.  I'm building Longbow.
>
> To be more precise, I've been modeling it with Bruce Alan Macintosh's
> Definitive Sensor Rules and some physics.  As defined, Longbow is a
> passive EMS interferometer with an effective diameter of about eighty
> terameters.  Compare this to the orbit of Pluto, which is only about
> twelve terameters in diameter.  The Longbow array is three light-days
> across!
>

Wouldn't that take a day and a half to get your readings?  What are you using for
communications?

>
> I've checked the resolution numbers given that diameter.  At a range
> of 1500 parsecs, it's seven meters in 10 micron IR, and 40 centimeters
> in 550 nanometer visible light.  At a radio frequency of 900 MHz, I
> think resolution is 235 kilometers.
>
> The big question is sensitivity.  1500 parsecs is nearly range 22.
> The rules limit tech-14 sensors to a sensitivity of 16; you can't
> build it much better anyway since a sensitivity-16 science sensor
> is going to cost TCr 5.  (Bruce, is there a technical reason for
> the DSR sensitivity limitiation, or is the limit there just because
> more sensitive sensors are so darn *expensive*?)
>
> In IR, Longbow can easily work up +2 in modifiers.  A target ship
> that's surprised and running active loses another +2.  Under these
> conditions, a ship accelerating at 3G with a 10000 MW power plant
> and no masking is just detectable, assuming no other modifiers.

well, you should get some sort of bonus for staring for a day and a half before
the ends of your array report in.  But my question is: At 1500 parsecs away,
you're looking at stuff from 5-6000 years ago... was there really any 3G/10000 MW
ships 1500 parsecs away 6K years ago?  and if there were, why should you care?

>
>
> I'd like to make Longbow sensitivity-16.5 to give it better odds;
> in fact, I'd like to make it sensitivity-17, but I'm sceptical
> that the Imperium could hide that much money in a secret project.
>
>   -- Steve Bonneville
>

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1169
***********************************

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Traveller-digest     Friday, November 20 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1170



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: .224 Boz or 10mm
Re: Harassment Insurance
Re: Geography of North America
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1169
Re: Shiiva Deckplans
Delphi Help
Re: Geography of North America
Re: Geography of North America
Re: Geography of North America
RE: Variant wounding systems?
Re: .22 cal.
Re: Where Rats & Cats? (Misha)
RealLift (tm) COACC Vehicle
Re: .22 cal.
Shivva Deckplans Page
Gurps Trav Spaceship balance (was re:  NightHawk G:T fighter)
Mass combat system for Traveller
Re: RealLift (tm) COACC Vehicle
Re: Harassment Insurance
Re: Smuggling
minimaxing (NOT)
Re: Shivva Deckplans Page
Re: Longbow II
Re: Gurps Trav Spaceship balance (was re:  NightHawk G:T fighter)
Re: Missiles, News and T-bombs

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:23:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Cook <markc@peak.org>
Subject: Re: .224 Boz or 10mm

Bryan <Kagehira@aol.com> writes:
> 
> For the gun aficionados out there, you might want to look at
> last months GUNs & AMMO.
> 
> The .224 Boz is a police round designed to take out terrorists
> (in body armor or through helmets at up to 100 meters), armored
> cars and APCs (at up to 50 meters, with the AP version).
    [stats snipped]
> Velocity: 2000fps with 55grain bullet

BEGIN_SOAPBOX_MODE

Man, this is exactly the kind of round I *don't* want to see civilian
LEOs carrying.  Considering how hard it already is to discriminate
between police and military, and given their generally poor firearm
skills (see a recent Washington Post article about DC Metro cops,
their Glock 19s, and the appalling number of accidental discharges
resulting in injury or death over the past 8 years.)  Frankly, giving
a police officer a round that will (to quote Danny Vermin) "shoot
through schools" without guaranteeing a commensurate level of training
smacks of wanton disregard for civilian life and property.

END_SOAPBOX_MODE

ObTrav: What would the LEO equivalent of this be in the 3rd Imperium?
We already have gauss and HiVel rounds against a variety of body armor
types.  What would the police/military use to defeat body armor? 7mm
gauss needles with explosive heads?  Slug guns throwing mico HEAP/HESH
warheads?  How about a micro-missile with mmWave radar and an onboard
AI that specifically targets the soft parts (armor joints or unshielded
parts of the body)?

Boy, and HCI thinks things are dangerous *now*!  Science marches on! :^)

        - Mark C.
          Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy
          EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75
          Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR
          NRA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)
          Front Sight First Family member #1

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 mark f. cook * mark cook consulting *  shoestring graphics & printing
 2055 s.w. whiteside dr. * corvallis, or, 97333-1406 * markc@ssgfx.com
 Phone: 541-753-2732      Fax: 541-753-2738       http://www.ssgfx.com
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    > I believe that "decimation" originated with the Roman legions.

    Of course it originated with the Romans! Who else would _need_
    a word that means "kill every tenth person"?  - Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:34:20 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Harassment Insurance

John Macek <macek@erols.com> writes:
>> I really think that we should do a 'Spinward Marches in the 500s'
>> sourcebook, for the people who really really want a minimum bureacracy,
>> minimal regulation, maximum piracy, maximum bring-your-own-guns
>campaign.
>
>When I started playing Traveller in the Spinward Marches back in *gasp*
>1979, I
>think most people saw it as being that way.  IMHO, as more and more was
>published, the tone of the background changed.  As much as I love the DGP
>stuff
>for its artwork and content, I also feel the had a big hand in changing
>the
>atmosphere of the game.  

The trend was already well underway by then. Many writers had (lazily)
used what they knew as background - so we ended up with the USA-in-space.
(With a bit of Europe-in-space from the few non-American writers.) 

My personal 'breakpoint' was the Ministry of Justice article in
JTAS/Challenge, which dictated one agent per 100,000 citizens. That,
combined with the Imperial Law article (which stuck very closely to the
American legal system) was when my campaign started to break with canon.
I've always held that canon shifted from under me and I just held firm :-)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:35:37 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Geography of North America

>"I must express myself cleary."

Who is cleary?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:42:50 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1169

Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com writes:
>sure, using the official "Good Enough For Gaming" conversion rules:  All
>distances in yards become distances in meters...The deckplans are now in
>meters for your game.

That's a 10% discrepancy. Intolerable to an iron-ringed gearhead :-)

Seriously, I was assuming that it would just be a matter of changing the
overlay grid.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:42:50 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Shiiva Deckplans

Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com writes:
>sure, using the official "Good Enough For Gaming" conversion rules:  All
>distances in yards become distances in meters...The deckplans are now in
>meters for your game.

That's a 10% discrepancy. Intolerable to an iron-ringed gearhead :-)

Seriously, I was assuming that it would just be a matter of changing the
overlay grid.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:59:30 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Delphi Help

I need some pointers with Delphi. Can anyone help?

Also, to the kind chap* who sent me Delphi 2: they upgraded the mail
server and I lost a bunch of saved messages. Could you please email me so
I can email you the converted Traveller programs? Thanks.


*Sorry, but I've forgotten your name. I _think_ it was Scott, or something
beginning with "S", but after frantically learning three new classes of
names I can't pull it out of long-term storage. I'll remember eventually,
but that might be a couple of years away...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 00:50:13 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Geography of North America

Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil> wrote:

>> Is Britain not part of Europe ?
>
>Not until just in the past few years!

One thing to say to that - France.

We used to own 2/3s of it.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 00:52:58 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Geography of North America

CardSharks@aol.com wrote:

>I am reminded of the introduction of someone or other...
>
>May I introduce So-and-so of Britain, formerly Great Britain.


That's the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, thank you
very much.

;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:14:39 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Geography of North America

Rob Prior wrote:
> 
> >"I must express myself cleary."
> 
> Who is cleary?

Beverly Cleary, author of children's books, such the Ramona and Henry
Huggins series, and The Mouse and the Motorcycle ( a personal fave since
the 4th grade.  Actually, I haven't _read_ it SINCE the fourth grade,
but it was a favorite book nonetheless ;-)

It could have been worse, he could have said "I must express mysellf
seuss" or "I must express myself joyce"

;-P

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:26:14 -0500
From: "Bob Sanders" <bsanders@amghome.com>
Subject: RE: Variant wounding systems?

From: Michel Vaillancourt misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca who writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Roll, and look at the chart.
>
>Ex: here is the chest location chart.
[Table and details clipped]
>I have found that as soon as a PC is hit, the player starts screaming for
>another PC with medic skills to get there ASAP.  I have had PC's get into
>arguments about who should receive medial attention first.  IMHO this is
>VERY realistic.  Having been in that situation once or twice.
>

        Hi, Bob!
        Question for you?  How does this work with Aliens and potentially
different physiology?  I am specifically thinking about CT:Double Adventure
5 - The Chamax Plague.  The Chamax required one solid hit of 12+ damage for
their acid sacs to rupture, destroying the creature.  All the other organs
were covered by a "soft spongy tissue" that basically mean that anything
other than a puncture to the acid sac was a no-effect.  I am curious how you
would handle that.  Admittedly, it is an extreme case, but it does
high-light a problem with damage multiplier tables presuming human
physiology.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Good question!

Having played the Chanax Plague, it is an easy answer.  For that case I used
the same rule.. 12 (I changed it to about 16 points) and poof!  That made it
really simple.  I still remember watching the PC's drop the SMG's that did 3
dice, an average of about 10 points, and pick up the riot gun, 7 dice (!)
really fast.    :)

Most of the other races have a physiology that is at least a close match for
the human..  upright, bipedal, two eyes, mouth, nose, etc.  Where I ran into
trouble was with the k'Kree, Dolphins, Vegans (hands and face)  and of
course, my favorite, the Hivers.  For most of them I did not have to worry,
I role-played the effects on the NPCs.  (In other words, I had the players
roll, and fudged the rest behind my screen, telling them what was hit) When
the players started to run a group with dolphins and Hivers, I had to do
some research, and come up with a hit location/damage chart for them.  If I
remember correctly both were simple charts, but with the dolphin it really
shows the danger of packing a lot into a small area.  It is _hard_ to miss a
vital area!   And the chance of hitting a fin or tail is really low.  We
also had to come up with some rules for the Waldos.  I did have one PC that
lost her dorsal fin to a Snub pistol HE round.  Ouch.   She was so angry
that she ended up ramming the poor bloke that fired the shot (she was in a
TL 15, Grav Waldo, doing about 60kmh at the time), double ouch.  Water
leaking out from a few holes, etc.  It was a real mess.

I guess what I am saying is that the charts are not as easy as letting the
stats fall, but are more interesting for me in letting the players know what
type of damage they are taking.  For other races I had to do more work, and
that did increase the paper sitting around the table some what, but it is
worth it to watch a PC loose her cool over losing the top half of her fin.
She was really pissed!  That reaction would not have happened if she only
had to take 10 points from her STR.

Bob

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:33:21 -0700
From: Samir <samir@chisp.net>
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

At 09:20 PM 11/19/98 -0600, you wrote:
>At 12:30 PM 11/19/98 , you wrote:
>>In a message dated 11/17/98 17:19:53 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>>gmgoffin@yahoo.com writes:
>>
>><< From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
>> 
>> I have not heard of someone being killed with a single .22 cal bullet
>> except through blood loss (not receiving medical attention). 
>> 
>> ************************************
>> Talk to some cops when you get a chance.  A .22 can pierce the skull,
>> especially through the eyes, temples, or palate, but even through the
>> thick parts, too.   >>
not to butt in here, but I remember reading about a woman who was shot by a
22 long and died and then also read about a man who a 22 pistol put near
his head all rounds emptied at him and he survived, I got shot by a 22
match mistol by my coach (By accident) I was damn lucky had he been holding
the 45 like he normally would have, I would have lots my thumb.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:28:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Sword Worlder <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Where Rats & Cats? (Misha)

- ---Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca> wrote:

>Let's call it "Frogs & Dogs".  Just to see if the .ca-types will get
>ticked off. [ducks] =:-o>
        /me e-mails SwordWorlder an armed antimatter device.
        (Hey, we contributed to the first nukes, why not the first AMB?)

Newswire: Tragedy in the Heartland - earlier this afternoon some type
of explosive device, presumably nuclear, obliterated 17 towns in this
central Iowa farming community. Breaking....

Newswire: It has been learned by this organization that the cause of
the disaster was what is being called "the first international e-mail
bomb".  It appears that an e-mail sent from Nova Scotia, Canada to a
recipient in Maine detonated enroute.  Breaking...
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:11:44 -0600
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: RealLift (tm) COACC Vehicle

ABC News has announced the development of the first viable
hypersonic commercial aircraft design (don't hold your
breath for a seat, though). Top speed appears to be around
Mach 10. The original press release from 10 Sept 1998, as
well as some interesting .JPGs, is available at:

http://www.llnl.gov/PAO/NewsReleases/1998/NR-98-09-04.html

ObTrav: It uses a rather cool method of atmosphere skipping
to get its speed. This method definitely has possibilities
as a standard for any lower-TL COACC force.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:14:42 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

In a message dated 11/20/98 1:05:14 PM Central Standard Time, samir@chisp.net
writes:

<< I got shot by a 22  match mistol by my coach (By accident) >>

as opposed to a punishment for some misdeed?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:25:21 -0500
From: "Paul Schirf" <pc@PerkWorks.com>
Subject: Shivva Deckplans Page

I just completed uploading my "Shivva" page.

http://www.perkworks.com/traveller/downloads/Shivva.html

Paul Schirf
Paul@Schirf.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:45:07 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Gurps Trav Spaceship balance (was re:  NightHawk G:T fighter)

>Well, the way armor scaling works, immunity to bay and spinal weapons is very
>difficult to get.  A 10,000 ton 6-G battle rider, using similar grossly
>expensive armor, probably wouldn't have over DR 30,000.  Bay-mounted PAWs will
>leak through on that, a spinal paw (averaging 210,000 damage) will pretty much
>ignore it.

In that case, we may have the opposite problem: armour is too 
ineffective. Classically, battleships can carry enough armour to provide
protection from non-surface spinal PAW hits (else, why have meson
weapons?)

It'll be interesting to see how GURPS Trav shakes down as serious 
gearheads start doing large military designs...

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:49:08 CST
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@itds.com>
Subject: Mass combat system for Traveller

Ok:

Did anyone ever design a mass combat system for ANY edition of Traveller
starship combat?

Help!


DonM.

- --
==========================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist             dmckinne@itds.com =
= International Telecommunications Data Systems           (217) 239-8365 =
= 2109 Fox Drive, Champaign, IL                           (217) 351-8250 =
= Winter War XXVI Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 5-7, 1999 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org     (217) 469-9917 = 
==========================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:53:52 -0500
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: RealLift (tm) COACC Vehicle

At 03:11 PM 11/20/98 -0600, you wrote:
>ABC News has announced the development of the first viable
>hypersonic commercial aircraft design (don't hold your
>breath for a seat, though). Top speed appears to be around
>Mach 10. The original press release from 10 Sept 1998, as
>well as some interesting .JPGs, is available at:
>
>http://www.llnl.gov/PAO/NewsReleases/1998/NR-98-09-04.html
>
>ObTrav: It uses a rather cool method of atmosphere skipping
>to get its speed. This method definitely has possibilities
>as a standard for any lower-TL COACC force.

This sounds a lot like the German Antipodal (sp) bomber that was supposed
to launch from Germany, skip across the atmosphere, bomb New York, and then
complete the orbit and return to Germany.  

Kurt Feltenberger

“We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a
habit.”
- --- Aristotle ---

mailto:kurt@blazenet.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:52:08 -0500
From: John Macek <macek@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Harassment Insurance

Rob Prior wrote:

> The trend was already well underway by then. Many writers had (lazily)
> used what they knew as background - so we ended up with the USA-in-space.
> (With a bit of Europe-in-space from the few non-American writers.)

I for one never saw the 3I as the USA in space.  If anything, I tended to
model mine along the lines of Victorian England or earlier colonial eras.

> My personal 'breakpoint' was the Ministry of Justice article in
> JTAS/Challenge, which dictated one agent per 100,000 citizens. That,
> combined with the Imperial Law article (which stuck very closely to the
> American legal system) was when my campaign started to break with canon.
> I've always held that canon shifted from under me and I just held firm :-)

An interesting way of looking at it.  Alot of the articles from JTAS I took
with a grain of salt.  Same goes for Challenge.

My turning point was with MT.  Something about all those CT ships written up
as TL15 designs turned me off.

John

- --
"It's shite being a Jedi.  We're the lowest of the low..."
Ewan McGregor, Star Wars Episode 1

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:20:19 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

At 01:04 PM 19/11/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:16:34 -0400
>From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
>Subject: Re: Smuggling
>At 10:53 AM 19/11/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>How big are the shipyards in Halifax? Build ships of just repair them?
>>Consider how the customs department there may vary with something else in
>>the same TL.  For example:  The Port of Rio de Janeiro which has both
>>shipyards and a naval base(the yards aren't that big, so call it a B
>port).
>>customs is not so tight there, and a few years ago (c. 1990) they caught
>>some inspectors taking bribes to pass cargoes.
>        We can build small warships locally, and can do dry-dock service on
>two costal-size frieghters at once.  Modest size naval base.  BIG harbour
>area for parking.
>**************8
>Sounds like Class A to me.
>

        I'd have said that, too, but we couldn't build a G3 ship or
Post-Panamax here.  Major repair, yes, build, no.


>>and at many ports it will never 'hear' such a thing, how many class E port
>>have this?
>        How many cargoes does the merchantman want automatically searched
>because there is a gaping hole in the container's log records?  IMTU,
>Starport Authorities all answer to an off-planet body.  If there is a
>control tower there, there is a transponder.  In the case of E and X ports,
>the issue is smuggling in, not out, and the local authorities have to deal
>with it however they can.
>************
>all of them if he trades at the low class ports at all. then they will stop
>searching him because he is clean every time and they spend all day every
>3-4 weeks searching his ship. "hey its the 'Grotto Gallumpper' Again, I'm
>glad its not my turn to search those baskets of wing-fish"
>"Yeh, Jones is going to be ticked, he had them last month"
>
        Good point.  However, in this case, it's rather like most things...
once the locals know you, then they get easy on you.  The bunch of
foreigners/ out worlders in the glitzy ship that just came outta hyperspace
are gonna get looked at alot.
        "Damn out-worlders.  Think they own the place.  Let Grotto pass,
we're gonna have to make sure these guys aren't up to something."


>        I personally have always had a problem with the "wooden containers
>in space" idea.  We rarely ship that way now...  break-bulk is so out of
>fashion it is stupid.  You put the "wooden container filled with pool-ball
>fruit" into a spaceflight-rate modular container (akin to the way we do it
>in the RealWorld(tm)) and the recorder/logger is integral to the container.
>********
>for the big ships I agree 100%, but is it allways done that way on the
>costal freighters?
>the ones most like the 'PC Sized' ship the characters get?

        Here in Halifax, even the tramp costals are hauling container.  You
can tell the tramps from the scheduleds because they all have self-unloading
capability;  derricks and cranes for off-loading the containers.

>        20thC piezo electric technology is almost to the point where you
>can
>use it to notice defelction is wieght.  Add 3+ TLs and its a non-issue.
>Same thing for the weight of the computer.  The radio systems are easy
>again
>when you can can build a 5000 meter range commlink wieghing 100grams at
>TL8.
>***********
>but what is the cost of this?  when you buy cargo on spec does it come with
>containers?  if so how much cheaper is it without the containers?
>
        This is a StarShip economics question.  The problem is that the
basic "I am just hauling containers" rules are broken...  a TL-15 sub
merchant can't pay the bills required to run it...  Presuming full cargo
holds every trip, 75/25 split between high and mid passengers, rigged for
mail, full low berths and properly crewed, after annual maintaince makes
less than MCr1.0 per year.  In perspective, that is less than 3 payments, or
say, a 1% return on investment.
        If we premise that the Big Boys are the only ones hauling containers
and the side-show traffic is handling break-bulk, then I'd say the cost of
the "Smart Container" is written into the 1KCr/ton fee (move enough of them
and ignore the small dent).  For the side-show guys, its just a bit more fat
on the bottom line doing break-bulk.
        IMTU, I say that if it is going out-system, then its containerized
(except for special items, like ATVs, which are RO-RO).  Container traffic
runs Cr2500Cr per ton per jump.  Containers are either 1/2ton or  1 ton.
There is a 30Cr fee per container at starports for maint and sterilization.
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:46:28 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: minimaxing (NOT)

John Macek <macek@erols.com> sigs:

>(and yes, I do play GURPS, but I'm not a minmaxer type.  I'd rather
>see someone play a character they like than play a character that has
>been point balanced.)

Two things would make this easier in GURPS, Hero, or any other point-based
character generation system if they were more widely recognized:
 The first is a quote from various Hero System books: "If it isn't
really a disadvantage, you don't really get points for it."
 The second is philosophically abhorent to most players of such games
(believe me, the facial reactions I've seen prove it) but is really
quite reasonable: Make the point totals represent the character INSTEAD
of having the character represent the points.

 Since this isn't a GURPS or Hero list, I will leave it at that.

 ObTrav: Thankfully this has nothing to do with Traveller (aside from
G:T) which has its own set of deeply-dug philosophical rifts and
doesn't need any more...

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:01:48 PST
From: "Paul Zumstein" <pzumstein@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Shivva Deckplans Page

>From: "Paul Schirf" <pc@PerkWorks.com>
>
>I just completed uploading my "Shivva" page.
>

Very      cool. (said in slow calm voice so as not to appear over 
excited) ;^)

Yahooooo!!!! Awesome!!!!!! Coooool!!!!! (oops, the nerd buzzer just went 
off)

PZ

PS If you turned the diagrams 90 degrees they might be easier to print 
out.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:01:39 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Longbow II

The big question is sensitivity.  1500 parsecs is nearly range 22.
>The rules limit tech-14 sensors to a sensitivity of 16; you can't
>build it much better anyway since a sensitivity-16 science sensor
>is going to cost TCr 5.  (Bruce, is there a technical reason for
>the DSR sensitivity limitiation, or is the limit there just because
>more sensitive sensors are so darn *expensive*?)

The limit is mostly size and expense; one could allow sensors a 
point or so bigger as special projects. Not sure how to make them
cheaper, though...

>In IR, Longbow can easily work up +2 in modifiers.  A target ship
>that's surprised and running active loses another +2.  Under these
>conditions, a ship accelerating at 3G with a 10000 MW power plant
>and no masking is just detectable, assuming no other modifiers.

Which modifiers did you take? It should probably get the bonus for
being in the outer solar system, and single-hex scan (at those
ranges a whole other star system might count as single-hex, which is
really supposed to represent a <1 degree cone). And you could take
24 hours per scan.

Pleased to know that it makes at least some sense...

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:22:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Gurps Trav Spaceship balance (was re:  NightHawk G:T fighter)

Bruce Alan Macintosh writes:

> In that case, we may have the opposite problem: armour is too 
> ineffective. Classically, battleships can carry enough armour to provide
> protection from non-surface spinal PAW hits (else, why have meson
> weapons?)

Heh.  Depends heavily on manuever, really -- it's much harder to get high
acceleration _and_ high manuever in GT than in classic traveller.  I can
withstand a basic spinal PAW with a J-3 M-1 ship of about 50 kT, but for an M-6
ship I'd probably need 25-50 MT of ship.  Using more expensive armor you can
resist a spinal PAW at around 12 kT.  Make it an SDB and you can probably drop
by a factor of 4 again.  However, for large ships damage _will_ outstrip armor
- -- if you take the same ship and make it 64x larger, it will do 8x the damage
and only have 4x the armor.  OTOH, it will have 16x the hit points.

Incidentally, GT needs to have spinal mounts take up hardpoints ;).  It's very
tempting to build battle riders as 'gun, with ship wrapped around it'.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 08:13:55
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Missiles, News and T-bombs

>From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
>Subject: Re: Re Contact Hits
>
>        Given in current military concepts, if it costs a million dollars
>(guess cost on a Harpoon) to reduce a $300 million destroyer or light
>cruiser to scrap, then you *want* that million-dollar missile.  Lets say
>going with a cheaper sensor pack in the snoot knocks the cost down to
>$100,000 each, but you are less likely to get a kill (and therefore more
>likley to get drubbed yourself, with resulting costs).  I'd argue the
>million-dollar missile is cheaper than repairing your ship and replacing
>lost crew even if you do kill the other ship.

The problem the Missile folks have in the Traveller universe is that lasers
work. A laser that will swat contact missiles out of the sky is a lot
cheaper than an expensive missile in Traveller, and cheap missiles have
very limited amounts of delta-vee.

If you want a quick CT answer, look at a rapid-fire X gun as a point
defense weapon. 

Counter-missile missiles also have a role, and they dont have to be
ship-killers, and will tend to need much less in the way of supporting
electronics etc.

>From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
>Subject: I Re: Smuggling
>
>  This is proof that no one has ever had the thought of winning
>mail contracts by providing a fast service on a small hull? Or
>that no such business exists in the Imperium?
>******************8
>The people who start them tend to have 'accidents'...such as blundering
>into Imperial Navy 'Live Fire Exercises'.......There is a reason the
>X-Boats are only jump 4 (IMTU of course).

The Imperium, obviously, wants to maintain it's news advantage over the
citizenry.

On the other hand, it is depressingly easy under all versions of Traveller
to build a nice little jump-4, 1 gee fast packet. If you are, say, Sector
Vice-President of Purchasing for SuSAG, it is very easy to need such a fast
back channel to news, and there is no commodity quite like information for
bargaining with your equals. ('Thanks for doing this for me. If I gave
*them* this, they'd owe me one' ... 'I couldnt comment' ... 'I know, but
they'd still owe me one').

Now, here is the pointy bit of where that creation of the megacorporations
and those creations of the Imperium have a bit of a blue.

Personally, I think the compromise would have been that the Xboat network
stays, but the Imperium reserves jump-5 and -6 ships to itself, but I can
see it going either way.

>
>
>  I also seem to recall the theory that no merchant would want
>to use any service other than the X-Boat system due to security
>and/or privacy concerns.
>******************
>Nah, its the other way around...no merchants *want* to use the X-Boat
>system due to security
>and/or privacy concerns.  Of course the Imperium reads the mail, and they
>only accept non encrypted data to make it easier for them.
>

The Xboat routes made sense, when they were set up just after the Civil
War. But time and commerce waits for no man ...

>------------------------------
>
>From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
>Subject: Re: teleportation
>
>I'm sure that anti-matter bombs had to be teleported at least 10,000km in
>front of the ship.
>

Not under Captains - you could put t-bombs anywhere. They did have a time
delay of 2 1/2 impulses before going off, which usually meant you put them
in front of the enemy so they'd be armed by the time the enemy was almost
on top of them.

Dont forget the 'flash cube effect' for uncovering cloaked ships ... put a
t-bomb in their hex, then wait a bit, and nose onto it to detonate it ...
if you get lock-on, bye bye Mr Romulan. Setting off your own t-bombs also
has it's uses when dealing with massive drone swarms, when you want
absolutely precise control of when they go off (set them for shuttles, and
launch a shuttle when needed. Make the point defense crews aware that the
lowest performing ADD or P-3 crew goes on the shuttle).

Ian Whitchurch


'And the 1998 Booker Prize for the Best New Australian Fiction goes to ...
Mr Tony Abbott for the published Job Network performance figures ....'

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1170
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Friday, November 20 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1171



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Geography of North America 
Re: Mass combat system for Traveller 
Re: Shivva Deckplans Page
Re: RealLift (tm) COACC Vehicle
Players in Central PA
Re: minimaxing (NOT)
Re: Mass combat system for Traveller
Re: Starship Economics
Re: mostly G:T
Re: combat systems [no rant here<g>]
GT vehicles
Re: uplifting
Re: Experience
Re: .22 cal.
Re: .22 cal.
Re: Mass combat system for Traveller 
Re: Smuggling
Re: .22 cal.
Re: .22 cal.
Mass combat system for Traveller
Re: Starship Economics
Re: Mass combat system for Traveller
Re: Mass combat system for Traveller
Re: Geography of North America
Re: Mass combat system for Traveller 
Re: Geography of North America
Re: mostly G:T

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:31:17 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Geography of North America 

> >"I must express myself cleary."
> 
> Who is cleary?

If I remember correctly, he was the guy who played LeBeau on Hogan's Heros.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:35:27 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Mass combat system for Traveller 

> Ok:
> 
> Did anyone ever design a mass combat system for ANY edition of Traveller
> starship combat?

High Guard.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:36:27 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Shivva Deckplans Page

Paul Schirf wrote:
> 
> I just completed uploading my "Shivva" page.
> 
> http://www.perkworks.com/traveller/downloads/Shivva.html
> 
> Paul Schirf
> Paul@Schirf.com

Very cool, effective use of scripting!
- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:42:46 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: RealLift (tm) COACC Vehicle

Kurt Feltenberger wrote:
> 
> At 03:11 PM 11/20/98 -0600, you wrote:
> >ABC News has announced the development of the first viable
> >hypersonic commercial aircraft design (don't hold your
> >breath for a seat, though). Top speed appears to be around
> >Mach 10. The original press release from 10 Sept 1998, as
> >well as some interesting .JPGs, is available at:
> >
> >http://www.llnl.gov/PAO/NewsReleases/1998/NR-98-09-04.html
> >
> >ObTrav: It uses a rather cool method of atmosphere skipping
> >to get its speed. This method definitely has possibilities
> >as a standard for any lower-TL COACC force.
> 
> This sounds a lot like the German Antipodal (sp) bomber that was supposed
> to launch from Germany, skip across the atmosphere, bomb New York, and then
> complete the orbit and return to Germany.
> 

Very much so. A old issue of Air and Space Magazine hada cover article
about that.

I think it was during the first year or two of the magazine.
- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:53:36 -0500
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Players in Central PA

Hi all!

A few friends and I are looking to resurrect our gaming group and are
looking for some extra players in the South Central Pennsylvania area.
Since we a planning on doing Traveller, I thought I might ask if anyone
local might be interested.

Please respond off list to kurt@blazenet.net

Thanks!

We now return you to the regularly scheduled debate...

Kurt Feltenberger

“We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a
habit.”
- --- Aristotle ---

mailto:kurt@blazenet.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:52:56 -0500
From: John Macek <macek@erols.com>
Subject: Re: minimaxing (NOT)

GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:

> Two things would make this easier in GURPS, Hero, or any other point-based
> character generation system if they were more widely recognized:
>  The first is a quote from various Hero System books: "If it isn't
> really a disadvantage, you don't really get points for it."
>  The second is philosophically abhorent to most players of such games
> (believe me, the facial reactions I've seen prove it) but is really
> quite reasonable: Make the point totals represent the character INSTEAD
> of having the character represent the points.

Well said.

Thus far, I've really enjoyed converting old Trav chars to GT.  With the
addition of a few ads/disads, they've acquired greater depth and detail.
While I'm going to use GT as the "core rules" I'm going to keep CT character
generation and then convert those chars.

John

- --
"It's shite being a Jedi.  We're the lowest of the low..."
Ewan McGregor as the young Obi Wan, Star Wars Episode 1

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:14:38 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Mass combat system for Traveller

Don McKinney wrote:
> 
> Ok:
> 
> Did anyone ever design a mass combat system for ANY edition of Traveller
> starship combat?
> 
> Help!
> 
> DonM.
> 
Two systems suitable for largish fleet actions (High Guard* for CT, and
Battle Rider for TNE.

Imperial Squadrons (T4) provided an updated version of Fifth Frontier
War (boardgame for CT), which handles operational/strategic combat
between fleets (a unit represents a squadron of the appropriate vessel
type.)  Imperium (a boardgame detailing the earlier Interstellar Wars)
is in a similar vein.

*(reminded of this by an earlier post) "There is no Game but Traveller,
and High Guard is its Product."  (Or, in transliterated Arabic, "La
la'aba ila' al-musaafir, wa al-haaris al-'aalii risaalat al-la'aba.")

>

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 09:06:18
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Starship Economics

>From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
>Subject: Re: Smuggling
>
>        This is a StarShip economics question.  The problem is that the
>basic "I am just hauling containers" rules are broken...  a TL-15 sub
>merchant can't pay the bills required to run it...  Presuming full cargo
>holds every trip, 75/25 split between high and mid passengers, rigged for
>mail, full low berths and properly crewed, after annual maintaince makes
>less than MCr1.0 per year.  In perspective, that is less than 3 payments, or
>say, a 1% return on investment.

The problem is not just that the freight rules are broken, but that too may
'canon' merchant ships are, frankly, appallingly designed.

If you design a ship with only enough power to stay in jump, run life
support and 1G of compensation, then you can easily make money at Cr 750 +
Cr 500 per parsec. Maneuver is one gee plus a little contragravity. If you
need combat capability, then install a hour worth of battery boost power.

Applying the Striker currency exchange rates to commercial starships pushes
this down further, because TL9-12 starships develop a much lower 'sticker
cost'. Check out Andrew Vallance's TL11 freighters for examples of designs
that will quite happily exist in a TL15 Imperium.

>        IMTU, I say that if it is going out-system, then its containerized
>(except for special items, like ATVs, which are RO-RO).  Container traffic
>runs Cr2500Cr per ton per jump.  Containers are either 1/2ton or  1 ton.
>There is a 30Cr fee per container at starports for maint and sterilization.

With well-designed ships, Cr 2500 a dton per jump makes way too much profit.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:23:11 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: mostly G:T

steve daniels wrote:

> Ian or Katts wrote:
>
> > I wouldnt hire Dewey Cheatem and Howe. They are Marxists, and thus
> > politically unreliable.
>
> They're not a law firm at all.  IIRC, they're the production
> company of Car Talk.  They're in the Boston phonebook.
> Would you like the number?

Bloo me boy, gotta listen closer, they are lawyers. the only
recently started representing the Tappet brothers. Their first
big name clients were the Howard Brothers.

- --
Ave et vale.
Evyn,
Warleader of the Clan MacDude
Solus Stellamilitia Ludus, 1998 Œ

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 23:17:58 +0800
From: "Benjamin Barton" <aramis3d@iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: combat systems [no rant here<g>]

- -----Original Message-----
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Friday, 20 November 1998 3:32
Subject: Re: combat systems [no rant here<g>]
Well I agree that i don't find the TNE/2000AD system broken, its fast,its
detailed.
if you want realistic Look to Time lords system for gun combat or Harnmaster
for Bleeding rules.
>No!  You said it was broken.  I was interested in just what you *thought*
was
>broken.  Next time prefix it w/ IMNSHO.  Then suffix it w/ "For my group."
It
>is *not* broken.  It's broken for you and your rules lawyer player(s) (who
>must've not read the 2nd to last paragraph of pg 285 (mk 1 mod 1).
>
>Personally, i just don't think you're up to a Good rules system. ; )
>
>> TNE: where PC's are all Iron-Men.
>
>lol.  Too bad u're so far from my campaign.  You'd find out how quickly how
>easy it is to die.  Personally i think your game was poorly controled by the
>ref.
I have played Harn for 10 years and its no fun when you die because some old
guy gets a lucky shot. after you just spent half the day rolling up the
character.
>
>
>Gary
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 09:56:52 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: GT vehicles

Hi!
In a fit of madness I've agreed to run a session of GT.

Does anyone have any GURPS designs for the standard Traveller vehicles that
aren't in the GT book?
I'm talking about stuff like G-Carriers, and Speeders, and maybe maybe even
the grubby Grav "Tank" from TNE (Pyrrhus Support Sled).  G-Carriers are the
most important.

Also, a separate question - apart from the Psionics rules, what's missing
from GURPS Lite that would stop it from being a viable way to run
non-gearhead GT?

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

ps:  My GT will play like CT.  My MT, TNE and T4 played like CT, so why
should I make an exception?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:58:58 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: uplifting

In a message dated 11/18/98 2:27:54 PM Pacific Standard Time,
summers@alum.mit.edu writes:

<< The are sensitive to insults, but why should they consider it an
 insult.  Even a touchy human wouldn't consider uplifting a
 chimp to be an insult to him (why should it, he isn't a chimp).
 Neither is a Vargr a dog who is going to care what someone
 does to s a dog.
  >>

true....

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 19:07:48 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Experience

In a message dated 11/18/98 5:15:53 PM Pacific Standard Time,
igor@truserve.com writes:

<< I'm curious what people think about this - particularly Marc, as he's
 working on T5. I never had a big problem with it - character's gained
 money, items, renown, etc...but what do people think? >>

My CT SM used to award 1/10th of a skill point for every skill successfully
used in an adventure. You could improve, but it tool a while.... As for
characteristics; he used the old study/workout routine. This too took a long
time, as the only free time the characters had, was in jumpspace...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 19:10:14 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

In a message dated 11/18/98 7:14:47 PM Pacific Standard Time,
CardSharks@aol.com writes:

<< 
 There was a recent news item (Chicago, IIRC) that someone was killed with a
 .22 and the shot was silenced with a potato.
  >>

I heard that was an old IRA trick. Don't know if it's true....

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 19:11:21 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

In a message dated 11/18/98 7:20:30 PM Pacific Standard Time,
CardSharks@aol.com writes:

<< Maybe we should post a police detail in Brooklyn and just arrest anyone
 getting off there? >>

I use to do that....:-)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 20:21:45 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Mass combat system for Traveller 

At 05:35 PM 20/11/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> Ok:
>> 
>> Did anyone ever design a mass combat system for ANY edition of Traveller
>> starship combat?
>
>High Guard.
>
>Keven
>

        I disagree....  you can't quickly say "my fleet stomped your
fleet"....  You have to kill each ship indviually.
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:06:44 -0700
From: "Joseph Kimball" <HPJKimba@ihc.com>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

>>>>
The only jump-6 courier I've seen mentioned is the secret one
owned by Imperailines.  (The legit version is not jump-6).
The X-boat is jump 4 and the ships listed as being eligable
for a mail subsidy are not jump-6 either (I don't remember what
they are, I can look tonight).  Furthermore, at each world
the message has to then wait on the availablity of ships
going to appropriate destinations.
>>>>
The other main Jump-6 courier is listed in Supp 9, and is called a Fleet Courier.  This is the type of ship that jumped across the rift from the Ilellish area to the Domain of Deneb to tell them about Virus.  I have worked out deck plans for this ship and stats in each of the ship design sequences available to me.
- - Joseph

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 20:00:55 -0500
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Anders Backman <anders.backman@aniware.se>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Thursday, November 19, 1998 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: .22 cal.


>>Data point:
>>Amazingly, he survived with no serious damage other than the loss of
>>the eye. This was partly because he and his buddies were bright enough
>>to *not* try to move the arrowe. They just laid him on his back in a
>>truck and ran him to the hospital.
>
>Anybody trying "the Wilhelm Tell bit" is immune to brain damage for obvious
>reasons.
>
>/Anders Backman


I had tears in my eyes while ROTFL!!!!!!

Thom

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 20:53:22 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

In a message dated 11/20/98 6:11:44 PM Central Standard Time,
Sethkimmel@aol.com writes:

<< I heard that was an old IRA trick. Don't know if it's true.... >>

ROFLOL

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:40:01 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Mass combat system for Traveller

>Ok:

>Did anyone ever design a mass combat system for ANY edition of Traveller
>starship combat?

>Help!

My Military Combat System (known in the privacy of my heart as "Fusion
Guard"), mostly for T4/FFS2, should work reasonably well as a mass
combat system - it includes rules for squadron fire and suggestions
for streamlining into very fast combat, although it needs a fair amount
of work still.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 23:10:01 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Starship Economics

At 09:06 AM 21/11/98, you wrote:
>
>The problem is not just that the freight rules are broken, but that too may
>'canon' merchant ships are, frankly, appallingly designed.
>
>If you design a ship with only enough power to stay in jump, run life
>support and 1G of compensation, then you can easily make money at Cr 750 +
>Cr 500 per parsec. Maneuver is one gee plus a little contragravity. If you
>need combat capability, then install a hour worth of battery boost power.

        Hi, Ian!
        Hmmmm...  I'll get back to you on this...  I am currently GMing a
TL10-11 game, with ship designs by High Guard.  The TL shelf on the
powerplants makes the vessels obsecenely expensive.  I just finished a 540dt
TL10 merchant with 2G (needed to get off of size 9+ worlds), 3Jp1 and a
power-plant 2.  1/2 the hardpoints aren't even armed.  The TL is actually
high for the region it is designed to operate in.  The only reason I armed
it is because it is a "Frontier" merchant, where Privateers/ Pirates are an
issue.  The big range is for the same reason.  It's partially streamlined,
with scoops and purifiers so fueling costs aren't an issue.
        At 1000Cr/ton frieght, it looses 10MCr per year.  The "Price Per
Ton" breakpoint (costs / revenue tons *2) is 4500Cr.  If I ramp the TL up to
15 (big drop in powerplant size and costs, giving boost in cargo space), the
PPT breakpoint drops to a mere 2825Cr per ton per jump;  however, it still
looses MCr7.4 per year.
        I suppose I could chop the range down to 2Jp1.  If I do that (I have
an economics spreadsheet that does ship expense modelling for CT/High
Guard), then PPT drops Cr2148; loosing MCr6.1/year at 1000Cr per ton.
        I suppose the answer is to ignore peril, strip all the weapons off,
cut the range to 1jp1, speed to 1g (ignore landing on big planets) and hope
alot.  I'll cut the computer down, too...  it was a 2bis....  I still don't
think that'd get me to a PPT Cr1000...  Hang on...  Well, I'll be damned...
PPT is Cr483.
        So, it is TL15 540t 1-g, 1jp1 pp-1, Model/1 computer, 10 passengers
and 336.5dt cargo, no weapons or defenses.
        At TL10. same stats except cargo degraded to 326t, PPT is Cr632
(makes MCr2.9/year).

        Ok, so to have a frieghter make money, you just have to either make
a killing at speculative, or stick to patrolled areas within a jump-1 of
each other, regardless of TL.  That *somehow*, IMHO, sounds contrary to the
spirit of the game.

>Applying the Striker currency exchange rates to commercial starships pushes
>this down further, because TL9-12 starships develop a much lower 'sticker
>cost'. Check out Andrew Vallance's TL11 freighters for examples of designs
>that will quite happily exist in a TL15 Imperium.

        Oooooooo.  I *like* this idea;  so a TL 10 ship in a TL15 game is
cheap like borsch, nyet?  Which means it is easier to maintain, pay for,
etc.  I think this is a common-sense addition to MTU.

>>        IMTU, I say that if it is going out-system, then its containerized
>>(except for special items, like ATVs, which are RO-RO).  Container traffic
>>runs Cr2500 per ton per jump.  Containers are either 1/2ton or  1 ton.
>>There is a Cr30 fee per container at starports for maint and sterilization.
>
>With well-designed ships, Cr2500 a dton per jump makes way too much profit.
>
>Ian Whitchurch

        Well, with the above mangled TL10 design, switching from Cr1000 to
Cr2500 bumps the annual return on the ship, under perfect condtions, up to
about MCr14.6.  Verses the cost of the ship, that is a 9% rate of return
(ie, a weak mutal fund).  At Cr1000, rate of return is an unattractive 2%.

        Sorry for the length of this post, but you caught me in an
experimentive mood.  I guess the question is this:  is a 2% rate of return
under perfect conditions enough to make someone want to spend MCr160?
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 23:10:01 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Mass combat system for Traveller

At 03:49 PM 20/11/98 CST, you wrote:
>Ok:
>
>Did anyone ever design a mass combat system for ANY edition of Traveller
>starship combat?
>
>Help!
>
        If you mean a quick, fleet vs fleet combat resolver, not that I am
aware of.  I am going to have to build one eventually, since the plot line
for my game involves a major war starting soon.  I am not gonna sit through
a dozen iterations of a TCS match to provide reasonable background info to
the players...  I need a "quick-slaughter-system" for fleet-level combat.
        I've got an idea for one, but the problem is scaling...  a
million-ton battlestar should have a decided advantage over a cruiser, but I
am not sure how to do that by just using the High Guard USP.  Obviously the
batteries information is one place that size counts, but otherwise, I duuno
how to scale it.
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 22:21:01 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: Mass combat system for Traveller

At 03:49 PM 11/20/98 CST, you wrote:
>Ok:
>
>Did anyone ever design a mass combat system for ANY edition of Traveller
>starship combat?
>
>Help!
>
>
MegaTraveller has one in I believe the referee's companion or the rebellion
sourcebook. It is for surface engagements though, not spaceborn ones, but
it probably could be extropolated into CruRon and Batron units.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 22:17:39 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: Geography of North America

At 12:50 AM 11/20/98 +0000, you wrote:
>Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil> wrote:
>
>>> Is Britain not part of Europe ?
>>
>>Not until just in the past few years!
>
>One thing to say to that - France.
>
>We used to own 2/3s of it.
>
>Dom
>
Use to own us too... to bad you lost us both.

Of course if the French had that good of memory, they would have remembered
to streach the Maginot line a little between the wars.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 22:30:37 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Mass combat system for Traveller 

>         If you mean a quick, fleet vs fleet combat resolver, not that I am
> aware of.  I am going to have to build one eventually, since the plot line
> for my game involves a major war starting soon.  I am not gonna sit through
> a dozen iterations of a TCS match to provide reasonable background info to
> the players...  I need a "quick-slaughter-system" for fleet-level combat.
>         I've got an idea for one, but the problem is scaling...  a
> million-ton battlestar should have a decided advantage over a cruiser, but I
> am not sure how to do that by just using the High Guard USP.  Obviously the
> batteries information is one place that size counts, but otherwise, I duuno
> how to scale it.

Well, if you're reasonably adept at Pascal, you could always write a battle generator program.  I'm thinking about it myself for some stuff I need done here.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 22:52:17 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Geography of North America

Rob Prior wrote:

> >"I must express myself cleary."
>
> Who is cleary?

Surely's cousin.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 22:56:09 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: mostly G:T

Evyn MacDude wrote:

> steve daniels wrote:
>
> > Ian or Katts wrote:
> >
> > > I wouldnt hire Dewey Cheatem and Howe. They are Marxists, and thus
> > > politically unreliable.
> >
> > They're not a law firm at all.  IIRC, they're the production
> > company of Car Talk.  They're in the Boston phonebook.
> > Would you like the number?
>
> Bloo me boy, gotta listen closer, they are lawyers. the only
> recently started representing the Tappet brothers. Their first
> big name clients were the Howard Brothers.

I know the joke.  But I also live in Boston and they ain't listed
with the legal community.

Sorry to inject a little reality in your fun bubble, but personally,
I get a kick out of knowing that it is a real company while most
people think its totally fictional.

Make's me wonder if there isn't a certain circus out there somewhere.

Bloo

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1171
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Saturday, November 21 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1172



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

High Guard
re: Shivva Deckplans page
re: Shivva Deckplans page
Re: Mass combat system for Traveller
Re: Smuggling
Re: Smuggling
Re: Smuggling
Re: Mass combat system for Traveller
Re: First Contact future history
Re: First Contact future history
Re: First Contact future history
Re: Smuggling
Re: First Contact future history
Re: Bureacracy in the Imperium (was Re: Smuggling)
Re: Smuggling
Re: Smuggling
Re: II Re: Smuggling
mass starship combat revisited
Re: Vilani COBOL, anyone?
Re: mass starship combat revisited
Re: Where Rats & Cats?
Re: Harassment Insurance
Players in Richmond, VA, US?
Re: Starship Economics

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 16:51:16 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: High Guard

Hello all,

Having recently aquired a copy of High Guard and being incredibly lazy I
was wondering if anybody more energetic than I has made a spreadsheet for
designing HG ships. If so, could you please tell me how to get hold of a
copy, if possible.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 23:17:22 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: re: Shivva Deckplans page

Paul Schirf wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
I just completed uploading my "Shivva" page.

http://www.perkworks.com/traveller/downloads/Shivva.html

Paul Schirf
Paul@Schirf.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
If you haven't seen these yet, take a look. This is the kind of work I
love to see on the web - I'd have bought a $12.00+ supplement with
mediocre text back when CT/MT was out if it included deck plans this 
interesting.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 00:28:06 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: re: Shivva Deckplans page

At 11:17 PM 20/11/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Paul Schirf wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>I just completed uploading my "Shivva" page.
>
>http://www.perkworks.com/traveller/downloads/Shivva.html
>
>Paul Schirf
>Paul@Schirf.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>If you haven't seen these yet, take a look. This is the kind of work I
>love to see on the web - I'd have bought a $12.00+ supplement with
>mediocre text back when CT/MT was out if it included deck plans this 
>interesting.
>
>Walt Smith
>
        Hi, Walt!
        I am very impressed with the presentation...  I don't know much
about the GURPs design rules, but I like what he has done with the side
profile and the over all deck plans.
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:00:34 -0500
From: "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com>
Subject: Re: Mass combat system for Traveller

- ----------
> From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@itds.com>
> To: traveller-digest@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Mass combat system for Traveller
> Date: Friday, November 20, 1998 4:49 PM
> 
> Ok:
> 
> Did anyone ever design a mass combat system for ANY edition of Traveller
> starship combat?
> 
> Help!
> 
> 
>
battle rider for TNE... is the one.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 01:17:41 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

Steve Hudson replied:

>>With surface-to-orbit traffic on a routine basis, would a
>>small shuttle get much more attention than a small boat or a
>>small plane does now? The US is not particularly effective at
>> policing a
>>1-D border. 

>  I _really_ hope you mean 2-D, there :>

1-D Linear is what I meant. 2-D is a world's surface. A 3-D border is
people popping out of jumpspace.

>  Besides, the modern US pays relatively little attention to
>small craft because it doesn't much care*.

Because there are too many of them, and searches of them allwould be
considered intrusive.

>any authorities can be really in your face if they try**

No doubt. But unless they have some reason to suspect you, they often don't
try.  A world with more resources and more will to control its airspace
could be more effective, which is why I was interested in what kinds of
resources would be required.
  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 01:17:49 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

Michel Vaillancourt wrote:

>Besides, information is "ripple effect" driven.  It propagates
>outward from the point of insertion into the Government Datanet
>at various rates;  usually jump-4.  Eventually, every warrant or
>what have-you will be seen by *every* databank in the Datanet. 
>You can try and keep ahead of the "ripple" if you like, but
>eventually this will drive you out of Known Space into what is
>functionally Exile.

Except that information travels at different speeds along
different routes.  For single warrants this isn't so bad: but for
anything complex,  such as targeting fences on the basis they
can't prove where they got such and such,  you are almost certain
to get multiple echoes, as the same list comes by different
routes.  If a world modifies the list based on what it knows and
others don't before passing it on, you get distorted echoes.
That's practically a recipe for noise.

>Which means it is possible to trip over a warrant from *years*
>ago and have to deal with the ensuing headaches ("I was CLEARED,
>I tell you!").

And every captain in space, innocent or not, is going to be
saying exactly that every port he goes to.  ("I've been CLEARED
for the same *#$%^ thing six different times, including the last
time I was HERE!!!")
  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 01:17:45 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

Michel Vaillancourt wrote:

>        Here in the RealWorld(tm) Port of Halifax...

[snippage of customs techniques]

>they manage to break seals under 
>warranty and phyiscally inspect an average of 0.3% of traffic. 
>Of course, because of the paperwork pre-screening, these are the
>*top* of the curve for contraband probability. They nail
>something big every month.

This is the kind of thing I expect at individual worlds. They
would handle their own customs regulations plus most violations
of imperial laws. I can't see the Imperium getting involved on a
regular basis.  Big scores by the customs office doesn't mean
that stuff isn't getting past them...

>        We did this as part of the UN sanctions in the Red Sea
>against Iraq...  250 ships in 90 days;  three teams of 9 armed
>Naval personell operating from RHIBs with gunship support.  Now,
>admittedly, all they were doing was eye-ball filtering the cargo
>manifest for "funny-looking" containers and then cracking those
>ones...  however, in conjunction with 5 other ships from other
>UN nations, in the 90 days on station we turned back three
>merchantmen for carrying stuff not allowed to be shipped to
>Iraq.

As a special operation, OK. But if ships coming into Halifax
under ordinary conditions got this treatment, your government
could expect to hear complaints.  Even then, you're just
searching suspicious cargos, not everything. If the smugglers
are careful and everything looks OK, enough of their stuff can
get by to keep them in business.  I was thinking also of the odd
container with a special handling label which you don't want to
open in an evacuated cargo hold in the absence of gravity (IMTU,
a certain percentage of cargo holds have no life support at all)

>Nope... you are thinking 20thC tech.  Every cargo container has
>a WORM drive on it that has recorded every place it has ever
>been...

Even if the ship and containers blab everything they know, it's
reasonably safe to assume a clever enough smuggler will be able
to figure out how to fool them into thinking they know something
that ain't so.  The more inept the criminal, the easier it is to
catch him...
  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 01:21:48 EST
From: CPsyop@aol.com
Subject: Re: Mass combat system for Traveller

In a message dated 11/20/98 1:52:11 PM Pacific Standard Time,
dmckinne@itds.com writes:

> Ok:
>  
>  Did anyone ever design a mass combat system for ANY edition of Traveller
>  starship combat?
>  
>  Help!
>  
>  
>  DonM.

(At the risk of mentioning another game system....) 
There are at least two sites on the Net with modifications to Ground Zero
Games starship minitures rules Full Thrust to allow for the representation of
fleet actions in the Traveller universe.  They are at
http://www.erols.com/nolan/conversion.htm and
http://www.uwm.edu/~cthulhu/FT/5thThrust.txt.  And for an introduction of the
system for those not familiar with Full Thrust you can look at
http://www.uwm.edu/~cthulhu/FT/intro.htm

Chris Ruhl
SGT USAR
301st PSYOP Company (Airborne)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:44:13 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: First Contact future history

Thu, 19 Nov 1998 19:07:15 -0500, "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>

>> You are assuming that Canada's annexation of the US would
>> essentially result in the conversion of the US to a parlimentary
>> system.  The question is whether the "former USA" wouldn't
>> just use their 90% of the vote to switch back to a "winner
>> take all" presidental system.

>*YOU'RE* assuming that 90% of the registered voters would show up at the
>polls
>and vote the switch in.  I don't see this happening.  <grin>

Of couse this applies to Canadians to.  The problem they would have
is that thy would have to have a 100% turnout to match even a 10%
turnout from the USA (not taking into account, of course, that Canadians
might vote for a presidential system and American might vote for
a parlimentary system or that one country might have a larger
proportion of voting age in its population).

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:05:20 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: First Contact future history

>Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 19:36:25 -0500
>From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)

>"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> writes:
>>The question is whether the "former USA" wouldn't
>>just use their 90% of the vote to switch back to a "winner
>>take all" presidental system.
>
>Wouldn't work. Every province would have to agree, not just a majority of
>the population.

I suppose if they annexed the USA as one provence.  :-)

(So that it would have and equal standing with PEI :-)

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:30:54 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: First Contact future history

Fri, 20 Nov 1998 00:29:01 -0800, shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
>Canadian provinces joining the US
>would probably elect current Canadian parties (at least in name) to Congress;
>it's my understanding that individual critters are elected based solely on
>votes within their catchment area in your system?

If Canada joined the USA, they probably at the least would
drop down to two parties (as you surmize, the USA uses as
winner takes all system that favors formation of a two
party system).  Except for presidental votes, there is
no real reason that Canada would have to go with the
Democratic and Republican parties as their parties and
would probably keep two of their original ones at first.
(You don't need to form a working majority in congress
to form a governement and the US congress allows a fair
degree of freedom to individual members to vote as they
please).

However, the desire to influence presidential elections
would probably cause the Canadian parties to start forming
Alliances with the American parties.  Eventually they would
merge.

Focusing back at Traveller, the US has 10x the population
that Canada has.  This is a drop in the bucket compared to
the population difference between the first Imperium and
the Terran confederation.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:40:08 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

Fri, 20 Nov 1998 01:21:04 -0800, shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)

>>Most mail will, in fact, go on the self same commercial ships.
>>Other than the X-boat route (which only works along the
>>X-boat backbone and which is only jump-4 anyway) there
>>aren't any special high speed ships visiting every world.
>>None of the ships listed as being fitted for mail are
>>especially fast and mail has to sit around on each world
>>waiting for the next ships to the destination it needs to
>>get to.

>  This is proof that no one has ever had the thought of winning
>mail contracts by providing a fast service on a small hull? Or
>that no such business exists in the Imperium?

Well, I'm not trying to "prove" anything.  However, the ships
presented in the books as carrying mail aren't jump-6 and the
Rebellion Source book indicates that general news of Stephon's
death did not go jump-6.

There may be specialty ships that take messages faster (some
megacorps have built them for themselves, right?), but I don't
see widespread disemination going this way.

>  I also seem to recall the theory that no merchant would want
>to use any service other than the X-Boat system due to security
>and/or privacy concerns.

I don't, but then I don't read every thread.  My guess is
that most info would propigate fastest over the X-boat
backbone and then spread out from their more slowly.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:01:51 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: First Contact future history

Thu, 19 Nov 1998 16:15:18 -0800, "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@home.com>
>>Actually, having grown up across the Niagra river from Canada, I'm not
>>sure that saying it is more liberal isn't too simplistic.  For
>>example, I do see thing that would be considered less "progressive"
>>than in the USA (I was on vacation in Nova Scotia and if they
>>required unit pricing (like in the states that I've lived in)
>>I didn't see it and I saw something on TV that seem too policialy incorrect
>>to appear on US TV (unfortunately I've forgotten what it was).

>Sound like "This hour has 22 Minutes". It will bash anything but Rick
>Mercer(?) fav targets seems to be the US (big brother is having a fit again)
>and Jean Chretien (PM) is nuts.

No, it was more sublte thing, like and attitude toward woman
in a show.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:14:59 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Bureacracy in the Imperium (was Re: Smuggling)

Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:59:15 +1000, "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>

>> I think, and this is the point, that much of the discussions
>> stems from just this issue.  Is the Imperium subject to the
>> kind of regulation and record keep/checking that we are used
>> to in our modern western society?  Or does the absence of
>> fast communications and the presence of a delocalized
>> governement structure take its toll and lead to a less
>> regulated/documented society?
>>
>> My view is the latter.

>Sylea had government type 9 Impersonal Bureaucracy. As Capital, it still
>does.  The Imperium as a whole  is an Impersonal Bureaucracy if I've ever
>seen one.  The Imperial services and ministries are under very little
>control from the citizens they "serve", even if you take "citizen" to read
>"noble".  (Alternatively, you could regard it as a Charismatic Oligarchy,
>or Feudal Technocracy, of course.)

The issue of the type of governemental control is different than
the issue of the amount of governement control.  The Imperium
is likely to have a large impersonal bureaucracy, but that doesn't
mean they exert high level of regulation/documentation of
events.  It just means the events they do regulate are controled
by faceless bureaucrats.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:34:25 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

Fri, 20 Nov 1998 01:07:20 -0800, shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)

>>The point was not that information would never catch up.  It was
>>that by the time it did, the trail would old and cold and the
>>subjects would have had plenty of time to take measures.

>  Both the ship and personnel will have their identities changed reliably?

Maybe (it is the approach that first comes to mind, though
maybe you can just bop out of the Imperium and sell the
ship and get a new one, but it would probably just be easier
to change).

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:11:08 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

Fri, 20 Nov 1998 20:04:09, Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
[Stuff about shipping in and out of Halifax]
>>The interesting point, is that you desribing inspection of
>>the records that came with the ship against the contents of the
>>cargo.  This brings up the question, since the world has
>>communications that the Imperium can only dream of, do they
>>check documents against what is recorded in at the source
>>port?  If not, then you have to wonder why you would expect an
>>Imperium that has much slower communications to do so.

>David, mate. Commercial starships are in port for at least 24 hours.
>Therefore, you would have a record on the Commercial Starship Register
>unless you
>
>(1) had a higher jump than the highest normal shipping
>(2) hung out at a series of low-traffic ports, or
>(3) fueled up and went everywhere you went
>
>In this case, I think the authorities would be interested in you.

I think you missed the point in this messge...

It was that at the port of Halifax, where fast
communication around the world make checking back to the
source port trivial compared to the Imperium, they don't
do so.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:04:59 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: II Re: Smuggling

Fri, 20 Nov 1998 01:29:58 -0800, shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
>>I don't think these would be that rare at all.  Any ships that
>>has to operate on cargoes of opportunity will have to go where
>>the cargo takes him, and then go where the cargoes on the next
>>world are going.  To not take a cargo because it goes
>>out of your area and sit around loosing money doesn't make
>>much sense to me.

>  What proportion of small traders are that fast?

a) you don't need to be that fast to out run mail that
has to wait at each port for available ships.

b) they don't have to be common.  If being jump 3+ lets
you smuggle, then it will be people with those ships that
do the smuggling.

> Even if economic
>J-3+ free traders are relatively common (unlikely by most T* design
>systems that I'm aware of) their trade/movement patterns should be
>a random walk over time (within the constraints of the structure of
>the region that they're in);

Right, they drift along, if they smuggle they have the choice of
moving away from the area, changing idents right away, risking
not getting caught, etc.

> a consistent run from an administrative
>center (for those who feel that internal security concerns will be
>deliberately compromised by total compartmentalization of such functions;
>strange IMHO, but it could happen) would be a tip off which traffic records

Ships will be moving to get to certain areas for a variety of
reasons.  This isn't much of an excuse to detain a ship (and
then the background needs to present the effects of all
those other ships being detained by mistake).

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 0:50:35 CST
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@itds.com>
Subject: mass starship combat revisited

OK:  Let's try this again.

High Guard is a combat system between starships.  There is no part of 
High Guard which is a "here's what's on this side, here's what's on 
that side, roll a die and here's the final results" system.

I want a mass combat resolution system.  Perhaps that's clearer?



DonM.
- --
==========================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist             dmckinne@itds.com =
= International Telecommunications Data Systems           (217) 239-8365 =
= 2109 Fox Drive, Champaign, IL                           (217) 351-8250 =
= Winter War XXVI Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 5-7, 1999 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org     (217) 469-9917 = 
==========================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:25:16 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Vilani COBOL, anyone?

> From: Alan Bradley <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
> Subject: Re: Vilani COBOL, anyone?
> Handwave:  the exponential rates of growth in machine power we currently
> have are related to the chip technology we are presently using, and will
> slow drastically once it hits its physical limit. 

Not really, we have almost reached a technological wall with the current
style chips, but other chips are in R&D that may solve this problem, like
IBM's penny chip...

> Alan Bradley
> 
> ps:  I'm glad to see my tax dollars are being used wisely in Centrelink!

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 23:50:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Sword Worlder <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: mass starship combat revisited

Wasn't there a large scale battle matrix in one of the games?  FFW or
Invasion: Earth - I seem to remember battle games being played out on
a table with large hexes...  Somebody?




- ---Don McKinney <dmckinne@itds.com> wrote:
>
> OK:  Let's try this again.
> 
> High Guard is a combat system between starships.  There is no part of 
> High Guard which is a "here's what's on this side, here's what's on 
> that side, roll a die and here's the final results" system.
> 
> I want a mass combat resolution system.  Perhaps that's clearer?
> 
> 
> 
> DonM.
> --
>
==========================================================================
> = Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist            
dmckinne@itds.com =
> = International Telecommunications Data Systems           (217)
239-8365 =
> = 2109 Fox Drive, Champaign, IL                           (217)
351-8250 =
> = Winter War XXVI Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 5-7,
1999 =
> = dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org     (217)
469-9917 = 
>
==========================================================================
> 

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 00:49:24 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Where Rats & Cats?

...
>Newswire: It has been learned by this organization that the cause of
>the disaster was what is being called "the first international e-mail
>bomb".  It appears that an e-mail sent from Nova Scotia, Canada to a
>recipient in Maine detonated enroute.  Breaking...

  You can _e-mail_ a freighter full of munitions now? Cool!  :)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 00:49:29 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Harassment Insurance

>From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
>Subject: Re: Harassment Insurance
...
>My personal 'breakpoint' was the Ministry of Justice article in
>JTAS/Challenge, which dictated one agent per 100,000 citizens. That,
>combined with the Imperial Law article (which stuck very closely to the
>American legal system) was when my campaign started to break with canon.
...

  Dare I ask how so/why? Admittedly, it seems that such a high level of
Imperial presence on member worlds from a single agency seems needless,
as the Imperium doesn't (IIRC :> ) actually administer them directly,
although we can always hope :)

 (total number of informal contacts by various Imperial or loyal orgs, OTOH...)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 23:54:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Steven Spiroff <sspiroff@yahoo.com>
Subject: Players in Richmond, VA, US?

Looking for Traveller players in the Richmond, VA, US area. Contact me
directly please.

Cheers, Steven
==
+-------------------------------------------+
 Steven S. Spiroff - Richmond, Virginia, USA
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 18:04:52
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Starship Economics

>From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
>Subject: Re: Starship Economics
>
>        Hi, Ian!
>        Hmmmm...  I'll get back to you on this...  I am currently GMing a
>TL10-11 game, with ship designs by High Guard.  The TL shelf on the
>powerplants makes the vessels obsecenely expensive.  I just finished a 540dt
>TL10 merchant with 2G (needed to get off of size 9+ worlds), 3Jp1 and a
>power-plant 2.  1/2 the hardpoints aren't even armed.  The TL is actually
>high for the region it is designed to operate in.  The only reason I armed
>it is because it is a "Frontier" merchant, where Privateers/ Pirates are an
>issue.  The big range is for the same reason.  It's partially streamlined,
>with scoops and purifiers so fueling costs aren't an issue.

High Guard doesnt tend to deal with small civilian vessels terrifically
well. It assumes ships are built to military specifications, and you have
the 20t minimum size for bridges.

Try plugging in a CT book 2 power plant in, and see what that does to the
operating profile.

You might also take the maneuver drive to one gee (again, use one out of CT
book 2), and install some contragravity units out of Striker to help you
get out of deep gravity wells.

If it is fully streamlined, I think you could put a good argument up that
it should be able to make winged takeoffs from big worlds, even at (say)
1.1 gees.

>        At 1000Cr/ton frieght, it looses 10MCr per year.  The "Price Per
>Ton" breakpoint (costs / revenue tons *2) is 4500Cr.  If I ramp the TL up to
>15 (big drop in powerplant size and costs, giving boost in cargo space), the
>PPT breakpoint drops to a mere 2825Cr per ton per jump;  however, it still
>looses MCr7.4 per year.

My rule of thumb for freight rates is Cr 750 plus Cr 500 per parsec. A
jump-3 freighter should be able to ask for Cr 1750 a dton, plus risk premiums.

Risk premiums should be pretty severe, given all those pirates.

Now, lets assume you are shipping ... High Guard power plants for 200 t Far
Traders. Buy em at Industrial worlds, ship em to non-industrial worlds with
type A and B starports. Now, assuming we buy them at 90% of book value at
the industrial source world, and sell them at book value at the
destination, how far can we ship them at Cr 5000 a jump-3 ?

>        I suppose the answer is to ignore peril, strip all the weapons off,
>cut the range to 1jp1, speed to 1g (ignore landing on big planets) and hope
>alot.  I'll cut the computer down, too...  it was a 2bis....  I still don't
>think that'd get me to a PPT Cr1000...  Hang on...  Well, I'll be damned...
>PPT is Cr483.
>        So, it is TL15 540t 1-g, 1jp1 pp-1, Model/1 computer, 10 passengers
>and 336.5dt cargo, no weapons or defenses.
>        At TL10. same stats except cargo degraded to 326t, PPT is Cr632
>(makes MCr2.9/year).
>

Note that at 5 TLs worse, your breakeven point is only about 40% higher for
a 1 gee, jump-1 ship. Compare this to how much more inefficient a warship
is at TL10 vis a vis TL 15.

>        Ok, so to have a frieghter make money, you just have to either make
>a killing at speculative, or stick to patrolled areas within a jump-1 of
>each other, regardless of TL.  That *somehow*, IMHO, sounds contrary to the
>spirit of the game.

Or take the completely and absolutely stuffed Cr 1000 per jump freight
rates and drop them off a bridge somewhere in Jersey. If a jump-1 costs Cr
1000, then a jump-2 should cost more, right ? The fixed freight rules are
the equivalent of requiring all knights in the Imperium to ride horses in
combat.

Oh, and sticking to patrolled areas isnt absolutely neccessary. Triple
sandcasters and triple missile turrets only take up hardpoints and space,
and dont chew up expensive power.

>>Applying the Striker currency exchange rates to commercial starships pushes
>>this down further, because TL9-12 starships develop a much lower 'sticker
>>cost'. Check out Andrew Vallance's TL11 freighters for examples of designs
>>that will quite happily exist in a TL15 Imperium.
>
>        Oooooooo.  I *like* this idea;  so a TL 10 ship in a TL15 game is
>cheap like borsch, nyet?  Which means it is easier to maintain, pay for,
>etc.  I think this is a common-sense addition to MTU.
>

It has *huge* implications. Really, really, big implications. No more
hi-tech freighters - they are too expensive. Lots of low-tech traders from
the boondocks, shipping people and goods for handfuls of Imperial credits.

Oh, and under HG combat rules, figure out what a captain with Ship
Tactics-4 is worth ... and then figure what she could ask for, and get, as
an annual salary.

If you are using the Merchant Prince trade rules, go the whole hog, and
apply currency exchange rules to the buying and selling prices of cargos.
Hmmm, the idea of shipping stuff from high tech worlds and selling it to
low tech worlds isnt quite as dominant as it used to be ...

>>>        IMTU, I say that if it is going out-system, then its containerized
>>>(except for special items, like ATVs, which are RO-RO).  Container traffic
>>>runs Cr2500 per ton per jump.  Containers are either 1/2ton or  1 ton.
>>>There is a Cr30 fee per container at starports for maint and sterilization.
>>
>>With well-designed ships, Cr2500 a dton per jump makes way too much profit.
>        Well, with the above mangled TL10 design, switching from Cr1000 to
>Cr2500 bumps the annual return on the ship, under perfect condtions, up to
>about MCr14.6.  Verses the cost of the ship, that is a 9% rate of return
>(ie, a weak mutal fund).  At Cr1000, rate of return is an unattractive 2%.
>

Just as a question of interest, could you build me a 10 000t jump-2, one
gee freighter in HG ... put a 50t missile bay and some sandcasters and
lasers on it (enough to intimidate the crap out of any small pirate), plus
the best TL11 computer available. See what price it needs to charge to earn
3% on ship cost per annum.

>        Sorry for the length of this post, but you caught me in an
>experimentive mood.  I guess the question is this:  is a 2% rate of return
>under perfect conditions enough to make someone want to spend MCr160?

Well, you have to remember that the US stock market is in the midst of a
massive speculative bubble right now. 9% per annum rises in stock prices
are *not* normal. There have been large chunks of history where investors
would have been happy to get 2%.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1172
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Saturday, November 21 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1173



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Smuggling
Re: Smuggling
[OT] Re: First Contact future history
Anniversary of a website
Re: Smuggling
Re: Mass combat system for Traveller 
AK 111 class Ketch
Re: .22 cal.
Re: First Contact future history
Re: Vilani COBOL, anyone?
Re: High Guard
Joel Pratt
Re: uplifting
Re: First Contact future history
Re: mass starship combat revisited
Imperial Presence (was: Harassment Insurance)
Re: Where Rats & Cats?
Starport Hiearchy (WAS Re: Smuggling)
Re: Imperial Presence (was: Harassment Insurance)
Re: Starport Hiearchy (WAS Re: Smuggling)
Re: mass starship combat revisited

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 01:32:50 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Smuggling

...
>And every captain in space, innocent or not, is going to be
>saying exactly that every port he goes to.  ("I've been CLEARED
>for the same *#$%^ thing six different times, including the last
>time I was HERE!!!")

  Is there a GURPS disad, "jinxed"?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:21:08 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

At 01:32 21/11/98 -0800, Steven Hudson wrote:
>...
>>And every captain in space, innocent or not, is going to be
>>saying exactly that every port he goes to.  ("I've been CLEARED
>>for the same *#$%^ thing six different times, including the last
>>time I was HERE!!!")
>
>  Is there a GURPS disad, "jinxed"?

Yes, but it doesn't work like that. It's quite neat though - everybody
around the jinxed character (but not the jinxed one) takes a penalty to all
their skill/stat/etc rolls. For a -1 penalty it's worth 20 pts., for a -2
40, and for a -3 60 points. Note that the other players aren't told about
the jinx (at least not if you've any brains), so the only way to work out
the cause of the bad luck is to observe the improvement in performance when
the jinx isn't around.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:17:26 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: [OT] Re: First Contact future history

shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson) wrote:

>  I'll bet the 3I has had times when worlds really wanted to join and the
>Empire just didn't want the headache...

Yep.

For a real world version, try the EU in the 90's with the old Warsaw Pact
countries joining/wanting to join.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 23:55:54 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Anniversary of a website

Well my Traveller Website is now one year old. I never thought it would last this 
long. To celebrate this underwhelming achievement, I intend reorganise all the 
IW pages into their own section and put the bulk of my Prometheus Rising 
documents online over the next week (despite the fact that they are hideously 
unfinished). Hope people enjoy them.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 07:47:30 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

>No doubt. But unless they have some reason to suspect you, they often don't
>try.  A world with more resources and more will to control its airspace
>could be more effective, which is why I was interested in what kinds of
>resources would be required.
>  

        Hi, Thad!
        Very good book called "Hammerheads" on this exacct premise.  I
enjoyed reading it alot.
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 07:47:30 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Mass combat system for Traveller 

At 10:30 PM 20/11/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>         If you mean a quick, fleet vs fleet combat resolver, not that I am
>> aware of.  I am going to have to build one eventually, since the plot line
>> for my game involves a major war starting soon.  I am not gonna sit through
>> a dozen iterations of a TCS match to provide reasonable background info to
>> the players...  I need a "quick-slaughter-system" for fleet-level combat.
>>         I've got an idea for one, but the problem is scaling...  a
>> million-ton battlestar should have a decided advantage over a cruiser, but I
>> am not sure how to do that by just using the High Guard USP.  Obviously the
>> batteries information is one place that size counts, but otherwise, I duuno
>> how to scale it.
>
>Well, if you're reasonably adept at Pascal, you could always write a battle
generator program.  I'm thinking about it myself for some stuff I need done
here.
>
>Keven
>

        Hi, Keven!
        Yeah, I expect this is what I'll be doing...  I'm a VB hack, as
opposed to Pscal, but same result.  I just *hate* programing sets of tables....
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 01:00:05 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: AK 111 class Ketch

Here is an product improved version of the earlier AK 100. Normal kudos to 
Andrew Akin (congrats BTW, now you can add 'lack of sleep-5' to your UPP) 
apply.

Lucky Dragon, AK 111 class Ketch (FF&S v2)
Designed by Andrew Moffatt-Vallance

Statistics
 Tons: 100 Td (SL Short Rnd Cylinder Hypersonic)
 Crew: 2/4
 Cargo: 38 Td (1 x Large Cargo Hatch, Handling: 1 x 54 ton)
 Volume: 1400m3
 Passengers High/Med: 0/4
 Cost: 13.956 MCr (25% bulk discount)
 Mass (L/C): 1300t/699t
 Passengers Low: 0
 Maintenance Points: 29
 Dimensions: 19.8m x 9.9m x 9.9m
 Troops/Science: 0/0
 Tech Level: 11
 Size: 8
 Frozen Watch: 0

Electronics
 Controls: Dynamic, High automation. 3 x Comp (CM: 1.0 CP: 1.0). No bridge.
 Communications: 1 x Radio (50,000km, 0.02MW). 1 x Laser (1,000AU, 0MW).
 Sensors: 1 x PEMS (12.5 [1.6mkm], 0MW). 1 x AEMS (8, 0.06MW).
 Survey/Science:
 ECM:
 Signatures: Vis:0, IR:-0.5 (-0.5 at 30MW, -1 at 5MW), Act:0, Neu:-1,
             Grav:-1

Weaponry
 1 x PD Laser (+0) 1/0-0-0-0 [1,50/5-3-1-1] (LR) [Point defence ROF 800]

Performance
 1 Jump (10 Td/pc fuel)
 0.3/0.6 Maneuver (Thruster: 10MW)
 1/1.8 Contra-grav (17MW)
 839kph/1410kph Atmosphere (Cruise: 629kph/1058kph)
 1 Power (Fission: 31MW, 1yr)
 0 Battery
 10 Fuel (Scoop: 3, Purif: 4, 1MW)
 0/8/0/0/0 Accomodations (8 x Sanitary Fittings)
 104 Person/Weeks Life Support (Type: Extended, Normal Food [Stored])
 0 G-Comp
 0 ESA
 0 Sandcasters
 0 Damper Turrets
 0 Damper Screen
 0 Meson Screen
 0 Force Field
 0 Gravtics
 0 [20] Armor, 8 Structure

Features
 1 x Decontamination Airlock
 1 x Ship's locker (0.05 Td ea.)
 1 x Gym (2.5 Td ea.)
 1 x 10 Td Fuel Bladder (1 Td ea.)
 1 x Ordinary Galley (Cap: 8)

Small Craft

Backups
 Drives:
 Screens:
 Communications:
 Sensors:
 Survey/Science:
 ECM:
 Power & Fuel:

Crew Details
 2 x Helm
 1 x Gunner/Steward
 1 x Medical

The AK 111 class Ketch was an upgraded TL 11 version of the older AK 100.
Externally it was identical (utilising the same hull), it featured greatly
improved habitability (including gravitic compensators) and a much improved
electronic suite. It also replaced the AK 100's primitive fusion drive with a
thruster unit of much greater power. However, despite these improvements and
a 52% increase in cargo capacity, it was never to achieve the same level of
popularity as its predecessor.

In service the AK 111 proved that it had lost none of the AK 100's rugged
reliability or ease of maintaince. In 2186 AD the AK 111 was selected by the
Terran Confederation for crash production in response to critical merchant
losses in the opening phase of the 4th Interstellar War. One of the ships in
this emergency program, the Lucky Dragon, was built in only 5 weeks; an
achievement which has never been repeated. However as the situation
stabilised, production was scaled back in favour of larger and more efficent
designs. None the less, the AK 111 remained in production well into the
period, and the last example was not completed until the late 23rd Century.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 05:13:46 -0700
From: Samir <samir@chisp.net>
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

At 04:14 PM 11/20/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 11/20/98 1:05:14 PM Central Standard Time, samir@chisp.net
>writes:
>
><< I got shot by a 22  match mistol by my coach (By accident) >>
>
>as opposed to a punishment for some misdeed?
>
yeah (I was never there you can't prove it, I destroyed the video) He was
holfing the pistol cross range instead of down range and pop whizz leak
leak (grumble)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 00:00:46 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: First Contact future history

- ----------
> From: David P. Summers <summers@alum.mit.edu>
> If Canada joined the USA, they probably at the least would
> drop down to two parties (as you surmize, the USA uses as
> winner takes all system that favors formation of a two
> party system).  Except for presidental votes, there is
> no real reason that Canada would have to go with the
> Democratic and Republican parties as their parties and
> would probably keep two of their original ones at first.
> (You don't need to form a working majority in congress
> to form a governement and the US congress allows a fair
> degree of freedom to individual members to vote as they
> please).
> 
> However, the desire to influence presidential elections
> would probably cause the Canadian parties to start forming
> Alliances with the American parties.  Eventually they would
> merge.

I agree with the alliances.  However, the US party system is completely
different from that in any other country in the world.  Strictly speaking,
the Democrats and Republicans aren't political parties at all, just brand
names at election time.  The Canadian parties would have to degenerate a
whole lot to become such a pack of scumbags, hopefully.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 00:06:10 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Vilani COBOL, anyone?

- ----------
> From: Legate Legion <legate@futureone.com>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: Vilani COBOL, anyone?
> Date: Saturday, 21 November 1998 8:25
> 
> > From: Alan Bradley <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
> > Subject: Re: Vilani COBOL, anyone?
> > Handwave:  the exponential rates of growth in machine power we
currently
> > have are related to the chip technology we are presently using, and
will
> > slow drastically once it hits its physical limit. 
> 
> Not really, we have almost reached a technological wall with the current
> style chips, but other chips are in R&D that may solve this problem, like
> IBM's penny chip...
> 
> > Alan Bradley
> > 
> > ps:  I'm glad to see my tax dollars are being used wisely in
Centrelink!
> 
> Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
> ICQ # 8973001
> legate@futureone.com
> http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm
> 
> We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted
to
> service us.  Resistance is futile.
> 

I do believe I said it was a handwave.  This is a pseudo-explanation for
why the computers on TL 10 ships ain't the equivalent of TL 15
Nintendos....

Centrelink is the Australian government department that looks after
unemployment benefits and pensions, and stuff like that.

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 06:35:14 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: High Guard

At 04:51 PM 21/11/98 +1300, you wrote:
>Hello all,
>
>Having recently aquired a copy of High Guard and being incredibly lazy I
>was wondering if anybody more energetic than I has made a spreadsheet for
>designing HG ships. If so, could you please tell me how to get hold of a
>copy, if possible.
>
>-- 


        Hi, Robert!  I have a couple of spreadsheets for MS-Excel 97 you are
welcome to.  Let me know if this is compatible with what you have and I'll
e-mail them to you.
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 09:44:47 -0500
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net>
Subject: Joel Pratt

Hi all!  I was wondering if anyone knew what happened to Joel Pratt?  I was
corresponding to him and it seems that he has dropped off the face of the
earth.  Haven't heard from him or seen a post in over a month..... Thanks
for any help you can provide.

Thom Harris
Greater Metro Boston, MA - USA

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 11:32:25 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: uplifting

Sethkimmel@aol.com writes:
>In a message dated 11/18/98 2:27:54 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>summers@alum.mit.edu writes:
>
><< The are sensitive to insults, but why should they consider it an
> insult.  Even a touchy human wouldn't consider uplifting a
> chimp to be an insult to him (why should it, he isn't a chimp).
> Neither is a Vargr a dog who is going to care what someone
> does to s a dog.
>  >>
>
>true....

Unless said human doen't believe in evolution, and considers any attempt
to monkey with nature (pun intended) blasphemy.  I know many people who
_would_ be mortally offended at the idea of uplifting anything, and
_personally_ offended at doing it to a chimp.

Anyone who disbelieves me is invited to the First Phillipino Baptist
Church (Bloor and Bathurst in Toronto) to see this in person. You could
say "hello" to my ex-fiancee while you were there, too - thisis why we
broke up.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 11:45:14 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: First Contact future history

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> writes:
>>Wouldn't work. Every province would have to agree, not just a majority of
>>the population.
>
>I suppose if they annexed the USA as one provence.  :-)

Even if every state became a province. Constitutional change isn't just a
matter of majority rule up here. Instead, you need to develop a consensus,
which is slower, messier, and sometimes impossible. But it keeps the
politicians busy and out of other mischief :-)

But we're drifting pretty for from Traveller...

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 11:52:32 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: mass starship combat revisited

Don McKinney <dmckinne@itds.com> writes:
>High Guard is a combat system between starships.  There is no part of 
>High Guard which is a "here's what's on this side, here's what's on 
>that side, roll a die and here's the final results" system.
>
>I want a mass combat resolution system.  Perhaps that's clearer?

OK, let's establish some parameters. 

1) Do you want a die roll per side and the entire battle is resolved, or
would you prefer a few die rolls (and/or decision points) so you could get
some storyline detail (eg. "Enli's cruisers make a swift attack on the
left flank. The enemy pulls reserve units to meet the threat. Varnak's
battle squadron make a suicide attack on the centre, which crumbles the
line and lets the rest of the fleet pour through to victory").

2) Will you be maneuvering squadron independently of this system, or do
you want strategic movement as well?

3) Will player-characters have an influence on/be influenced by the final
outcome?

4) What is it about Fifth Frontier War/Imperial Squadrons you don't
like/don't find suitable?

5) Would a fleet equivalent of the abstract system from Book 4 Mercenary
be what you're looking for?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 12:15:58 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Imperial Presence (was: Harassment Insurance)

shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson) writes:
>>My personal 'breakpoint' was the Ministry of Justice article in
>>JTAS/Challenge, which dictated one agent per 100,000 citizens. That,
>>combined with the Imperial Law article (which stuck very closely to the
>>American legal system) was when my campaign started to break with canon.
>...
>
>  Dare I ask how so/why? Admittedly, it seems that such a high level of
>Imperial presence on member worlds from a single agency seems needless,
>as the Imperium doesn't (IIRC :> ) actually administer them directly,
>although we can always hope :)
>
Two reasons:

1) It was an incredibly high presence, especially for a single Ministry.
It was also incredibly intrusive. Remember that when we started (Adventure
1: Kinunir) the Imperium was a force more often heard about than actually
encoundered, and suddenly every world had a branch office of the MoJ.

2) It contradicted the dictum that the Imperium was concerned
aboutinterstellar matters, leaving planetary matters to planetary
government.


The Imperial Law article was even worse, in that it wasn't science
fiction. (My letter about that got published in the next issue of
Challenge.) No reference to crimes that weren't already crimes in the USA
(and most Western cultures), with a clone of the American legal process
(at least, it matches the American legal process as explained in my
Writers Digest "HowDunnit" books).

<non-canon>
In a nutshell, here is how _my_ Imperium works in M0:

1) Imperial citizenship is not automatic. All nobles are citizens, as are
Imperial veterans _after_ their term of service. Children of citizens are
citizens as well. (This will eventually means that everyone is a citizen,
so my M1200 we rejoin canon.)

2) Imperial citizens have the right to trial by an Imperial court, which
usually means the local Imperial noble. This may not be more lenient, but
it is almost always a guarantee of fairness.

Look at how Paul makes a big deal about being a Roman citizen for an
example of this in action. (There are other examples, but most people can
probably find a bible somewhere around.)

3) The Imperial court may enforce the local law, or it may just ban the
offender from the planet in question (with a note that returning to the
locality means that the citizen is explicitly renouncing their right to
Imperial justice).

4) Imperial laws are concerned with:

a) Interstellar trade and conquest
b) Defense of the realm
c) Protection of individuals _in Imperial territory_ as distinct from
planetary territory.
d) Long-term actions that would affect whole populations
e) Relationships between subject polities
f) Treatment of Imperial citizens

Thus, under (d) and (e) a country on a balkanized world could use Imperial
law if another country diverted rivers that they required for survival, or
otherwise altered the ecosystem. Assault and murder are not an Imperial
problem unless they take place on a starship in space (c) or are against
an Imperial citizen (f).

5) The Imperial justice system is both feudal and Napoleonic. The duty to
administer justice is part of a noble's job. The judicial system is
Napoleonic, in that the judge takes an active role in questioning and
conducting the investigation, and in that precedent is a non-binding
guideline and is distinct from the text of the law (which is binding).
This has the game advantage of requiring only the law, not pages of
precedents, when the players want to see the laws they have broken :-)

</non-canon>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 09:19:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Sword Worlder <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Where Rats & Cats?

- ---Steven Hudson <shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca> wrote:
> ...
> >Newswire: It has been learned by this organization that the cause of
> >the disaster was what is being called "the first international e-mail
> >bomb".  It appears that an e-mail sent from Nova Scotia, Canada to a
> >recipient in Maine detonated enroute.  Breaking...
> 
>   You can _e-mail_ a freighter full of munitions now? Cool!  :)
> 
> 
Michel Vaillencourt e-mailed an _anti-matter_bomb_ from Nova Scotia to
my Yahoo address.  Since it had to go to California and then back to
Maine, a die roll of 6- would have the experimental device become
unstable during travel.  Roll once per 1000 km, it blew in Iowa.  Now,
if he had sent it directly to my ISP in Bath, I'd definitely be one
with the ether right now.


==
- ------------------------><>------------------------
IMTU 0601 tc++ tm !tn t4+ ?tg ru++ 3i pi ta+ he+ 
http://come.to/traveller

You might be a Traveller fanatic if... your resume includes a UPP and skill listing!


_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 10:49:54 -0700
From: Adahma <adahma@starport.org>
Subject: Starport Hiearchy (WAS Re: Smuggling)

Quoting Ian or Katts (ianw@orac.net.au):
> 
[BIG snip]
> 
> (1) It has been suggested that Starport Administrator is a good job for an
> Imperial Noble.
> 

Are the levels of rank within an Imperial starport?  Are they civil,
military, or what?

Sorry if this is elementary.  I'm a recent convert, thanks to GURPS, but
don't find that issue addressed anywhere in that material.

Adahma

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 09:58:02 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Imperial Presence (was: Harassment Insurance)

At 12:15 PM 11/21/98 -0500, you wrote:

>In a nutshell, here is how _my_ Imperium works in M0:

Along with MTU comments.

>1) Imperial citizenship is not automatic. All nobles are citizens, as are
>Imperial veterans _after_ their term of service. Children of citizens are
>citizens as well. (This will eventually means that everyone is a citizen,
>so my M1200 we rejoin canon.)

I have every citizen of an Imperial world also carrying Imperial
citizenship.  This simplifies things like travel.  Most people think of
themselves as Reginians or Morans before being Imperials.

>2) Imperial citizens have the right to trial by an Imperial court, which
>usually means the local Imperial noble. This may not be more lenient, but
>it is almost always a guarantee of fairness.

IMTU, the Imperium will not intercede in apurely local matter unless they
believe that the trial might vioplate one of the big Imperial laws.  An
interesting scenario comes about when you have a fugitive reaching a world
where his crime is considered nothing special, and resisting extradition.

My Imperium is fairly remote.. worlds have a consulate where the Imperial
authority is concentrated.  This can be anything from a large office
tower/park on a subsector capital to a single room office at the downport
with a "Gone Fishin'" sign hanging on the doorknob.

- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 13:06:39 EST
From: CPsyop@aol.com
Subject: Re: Starport Hiearchy (WAS Re: Smuggling)

In a message dated 11/21/98 9:49:53 AM Pacific Standard Time,
adahma@starport.org writes:

> Are the levels of rank within an Imperial starport?  Are they civil,
>  military, or what?
>  
>  Sorry if this is elementary.  I'm a recent convert, thanks to GURPS, but
>  don't find that issue addressed anywhere in that material.
>  
>  Adahma

There was an article on starports and starport personnel (to include
career/character generation info) in an early edition of Journal of the
Traveller's Aid Society.  Since I just got back from Active Duty I've been
looking through my old gaming stuff.  Give me a day or two to dig it up and I
can get a quick 'thumbnail' of the article to you (or anyone else on the list
that's interested).

Chris Ruhl
SGT USAR
301st PSYOP Company (Airborne)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 11:06:14 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: mass starship combat revisited

...
>High Guard is a combat system between starships.  There is no part of 
>High Guard which is a "here's what's on this side, here's what's on 
>that side, roll a die and here's the final results" system.
>
>I want a mass combat resolution system.  Perhaps that's clearer?

  Something like F&E perhaps? You'd have to assign the relative values
yourself, but as long as you have an idea how good you think the ships
are it should work at least as well as using 5FW on a one ship per
counter basis or somesuch.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1173
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Saturday, November 21 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1174



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1173
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1173
Re: First Contact future history
Re: .22 cal.
Re: Mass combat system for Traveller
Re: mass starship combat revisited
Re: Smuggling
Re: Smuggling
GT: Ship Design Question
[OT] Re: Geography of North America
re: Mass combat system for Traveller
re: mass starship combat revisited
Re: Mass combat system for Traveller
Re: mass starship combat
Re: Smuggling
Re: Starport Hierarchy
Re: Starport Heirachy
Re: AK 111 Ketch
Jinxed (was Re: Smuggling)
Re: Smuggling
Re: IMOJ (was Re: Harassment Insurance)
Web page Trademark Disclaimers
Hello again, Capital Ships and Space Opera (long)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 12:34:43 CST
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@itds.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1173

> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 11:52:32 -0500
> From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
> Subject: Re: mass starship combat revisited
> 
> Don McKinney <dmckinne@itds.com> writes:
> >High Guard is a combat system between starships.  There is no part of 
> >High Guard which is a "here's what's on this side, here's what's on 
> >that side, roll a die and here's the final results" system.
> >
> >I want a mass combat resolution system.  Perhaps that's clearer?
> 
> OK, let's establish some parameters. 
> 
> 1) Do you want a die roll per side and the entire battle is resolved, or
> would you prefer a few die rolls (and/or decision points) so you could get
> some storyline detail (eg. "Enli's cruisers make a swift attack on the
> left flank. The enemy pulls reserve units to meet the threat. Varnak's
> battle squadron make a suicide attack on the centre, which crumbles the
> line and lets the rest of the fleet pour through to victory").

Battle resolution.  TCS breaks down when New Home is attacked by waves
of TL 11 destroyers... 

> 2) Will you be maneuvering squadron independently of this system, or do
> you want strategic movement as well?

Not necessary, but interesting to look at...

> 3) Will player-characters have an influence on/be influenced by the final
> outcome?

Yes, and some NPCs too...

> 4) What is it about Fifth Frontier War/Imperial Squadrons you don't
> like/don't find suitable?

a) I don't own either.
b) I use High Guard to design ships.

> 5) Would a fleet equivalent of the abstract system from Book 4 Mercenary
> be what you're looking for?

That's real close!


DonM.
- --
==========================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist             dmckinne@itds.com =
= International Telecommunications Data Systems           (217) 239-8365 =
= 2109 Fox Drive, Champaign, IL                           (217) 351-8250 =
= Winter War XXVI Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 5-7, 1999 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org     (217) 469-9917 = 
==========================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 12:39:15 CST
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@itds.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1173

> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 11:06:14 -0800
> From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
> Subject: Re: mass starship combat revisited
> 
> ...
> >High Guard is a combat system between starships.  There is no part of 
> >High Guard which is a "here's what's on this side, here's what's on 
> >that side, roll a die and here's the final results" system.
> >
> >I want a mass combat resolution system.  Perhaps that's clearer?
> 
>   Something like F&E perhaps? You'd have to assign the relative values
> yourself, but as long as you have an idea how good you think the ships
> are it should work at least as well as using 5FW on a one ship per
> counter basis or somesuch.

Well, as far as I'm aware, there was never a definitive answer as to 
how FFW related to HG.


DonM.
- --
==========================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist             dmckinne@itds.com =
= International Telecommunications Data Systems           (217) 239-8365 =
= 2109 Fox Drive, Champaign, IL                           (217) 351-8250 =
= Winter War XXVI Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 5-7, 1999 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org     (217) 469-9917 = 
==========================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 12:50:34 -0600
From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
Subject: Re: First Contact future history

Rob Prior wrote:

>Even if every state became a province. Constitutional change isn't just
a
>matter of majority rule up here. Instead, you need to develop a
consensus,
>which is slower, messier, and sometimes impossible. But it keeps the
>politicians busy and out of other mischief :-)
>
>But we're drifting pretty for from Traveller...

No discussions like this help me from running a Yanks in space game

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 14:51:46 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

In a message dated 11/20/98 5:55:38 PM Pacific Standard Time,
CardSharks@aol.com writes:

<< << I heard that was an old IRA trick. Don't know if it's true.... >>
 
 ROFLOL
 
  >>

Scary thing was that I was serious....

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 15:01:56 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Mass combat system for Traveller

In a message dated 11/20/98 7:07:58 PM Pacific Standard Time,
misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca writes:

<<    I've got an idea for one, but the problem is scaling...  a
 million-ton battlestar should have a decided advantage over a cruiser, but I
 am not sure how to do that by just using the High Guard USP.  Obviously the
 batteries information is one place that size counts, but otherwise, I duuno
 how to scale it. >>

Hmm; perhaps count the amount of bays (potential and real). The million tonner
would have about 1000 bays maximum (minus 7 for a type T meson gun, and minus
her turrets), and a 60000 tonner cruiser would have a lot less ( 60 max minus
her spinal and her turrets). You thus get a number for your combat mechanics.
I'm asuming no differences between bay types and sizes to simplify the combat
rules...

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 15:15:21 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: mass starship combat revisited

In a message dated 11/20/98 10:52:30 PM Pacific Standard Time,
dmckinne@itds.com writes:

<<  want a mass combat resolution system.  Perhaps that's clearer? >>

Would the mechanics from 5th frontier war and Invasion earth count?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 15:53:02 EST
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Smuggling

In a message dated 11/20/98 22:30:02 PM Pacific Standard Time,
summers@alum.mit.edu writes:

<< >>Most mail will, in fact, go on the self same commercial ships.
 >>Other than the X-boat route (which only works along the
 >>X-boat backbone and which is only jump-4 anyway) there
 >>aren't any special high speed ships visiting every world.
 >>None of the ships listed as being fitted for mail are
 >>especially fast and mail has to sit around on each world
 >>waiting for the next ships to the destination it needs to
 >>get to.
 
 >  This is proof that no one has ever had the thought of winning
 >mail contracts by providing a fast service on a small hull? Or
 >that no such business exists in the Imperium?
 
 Well, I'm not trying to "prove" anything.  However, the ships
 presented in the books as carrying mail aren't jump-6 and the
 Rebellion Source book indicates that general news of Stephon's
 death did not go jump-6.
  >>

	Why do we find it difficult to believe that such a company ( or companies)
who specialize in fast info transfer exists?  As I see it, we have the United
States Postal Service (owned and operated by you friendly federal goverment),
which seems very similar to the X-Boat service... but we also have companies
like FedEx or Airborne Ex to speed priority mail around.  Sure it would cost
more to have J-6 ships...so you charge more for the premium service.  Lots of
people would have uses for this service...including Law Enforcement agencies.

DustyLV769

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:31:23 +0100 (MET)
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

On Sat, 21 Nov 1998 DustyLV769@aol.com wrote:

>In a message dated 11/20/98 22:30:02 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>summers@alum.mit.edu writes:
>
>	Why do we find it difficult to believe that such a company ( or companies)
>who specialize in fast info transfer exists?  As I see it, we have the United
>States Postal Service (owned and operated by you friendly federal goverment),
>which seems very similar to the X-Boat service... but we also have companies
>like FedEx or Airborne Ex to speed priority mail around.  Sure it would cost
>more to have J-6 ships...so you charge more for the premium service.  Lots of
>people would have uses for this service...including Law Enforcement agencies.
>
>DustyLV769

I simply think that the Court wants to keep this available only to themself.
The x-boat network is kept at a jump-4 level through regulations so that 
the Court will have an edge through getting the information to and from its
destination more quickly. This insures that the Court is the first to know, 
and that the Imperial Megacorp gets that litte edge that keeps it ahead of 
everybody else.


Tommy Grav
- -------------------------------------------------------------
tommy.grav@astro.uio.no     http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/  
Institute of Astrophysics, UiO, No  
IMTU tn++t4+tg+ ru+ge++ !3i jt+au+st+ls hi++dr-so++zh-sy-sw++ 
 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:58:38 -1000
From: Craig Barnett <craig_barnett@iname.com>
Subject: GT: Ship Design Question

I'm creating a fairly detailed Excel spreadsheet (inspired by Mr Akins)
to build GT spacecraft using the modules provided in GT and those posted
on the TML, but I'm all little confused with the way turrets and weapons
are treated in the rules. Perhaps somebody here can shed light on my
problem.

As I see it, turrets and bays are assigned in one step of the process
with each turret and bay having their own space, mass and cost (ie, 1
space for turrets, 20 spaces for bays, etc). Individual weapons are
added in a later step, and have their own space requirements, mass and
cost (ie, 1 space for each laser in a turret, 50 spaces for a bay, etc).

How does this work?  Up to three weapons are supposed to fit in a
turret, so how can three 1 space lasers fit into a 1 space turret? Or a
50 space bay weapon into a 20 space bay? Are these figures for turrets,
bays and weapons inclusive (say, 1 space for the turret and it's
associated bits and pieces, + 1 additional space for each extra weapon
in the turret), or is there something I'm missing?

I'm totally lost as to how this is resolved, and it's all that's
stopping me from completing the spreadsheet (which is heavily influenced
by Andy Akin's fine FFS2 spreadsheet - Congrats on the addition to your
family Andrew!) and I will release it when it's finished. There's
nothing in the errata I have that helps (which is admittedly dated from
October and may be incomplete).


- --
Craig Barnett   <craig_barnett@iname.com>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 10:53:48 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: [OT] Re: Geography of North America

 Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net> wrote:

re: Canada and France.....
>Use to own us too... to bad you lost us both.

Well, the UK's politicians like to refer to the country as UK plc or Great
Britian plc (plc is public limited company, ie traded on the stock
exchange). So the loss of all these former possessions could be considered
corporate downsizing and a concentration on core business. ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 10:49:47 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Mass combat system for Traveller

bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh) wrote:

>My Military Combat System (known in the privacy of my heart as "Fusion
>Guard"), mostly for T4/FFS2, should work reasonably well as a mass
>combat system - it includes rules for squadron fire and suggestions
>for streamlining into very fast combat, although it needs a fair amount
>of work still.


Bruce, I'm feeling lazy and don't want to try a deep scan of the internet
to find the MCS ;-) What's the URL for MCS?

Thanks,

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 11:03:06 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: mass starship combat revisited

Don McKinney <dmckinne@itds.com> wrote:

>OK:  Let's try this again.
>
>High Guard is a combat system between starships.  There is no part of
>High Guard which is a "here's what's on this side, here's what's on
>that side, roll a die and here's the final results" system.
>
>I want a mass combat resolution system.  Perhaps that's clearer?

FFW as modified in the T4 rules book _Imperial Squadrons_ by IG is the best
bet. It ties back to Pocket Empires if you really want to run large scale
combat between empires. There are some bugs in the SDB factors, but someone
posted a solution here (I may be able to dig out a copy). Pocket Empires
has a very simplistic, but effect combat system too.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 10:58:45 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Mass combat system for Traveller

CPsyop@aol.com wrote:

>(At the risk of mentioning another game system....)
>There are at least two sites on the Net with modifications to Ground Zero
>Games starship minitures rules Full Thrust to allow for the representation of
>fleet actions in the Traveller universe.  They are at
>http://www.erols.com/nolan/conversion.htm and
>http://www.uwm.edu/~cthulhu/FT/5thThrust.txt.  And for an introduction of the
>system for those not familiar with Full Thrust you can look at
>http://www.uwm.edu/~cthulhu/FT/intro.htm

BITS has also started work on a development of FT for Traveller - the
combat system has been modified to give a Traveller feel, and the ship
construction system is being changed to match the Fleets Book version.

<GRIPE> Unfortunately, none of the playtest copies people aske for has had
much in the way of feedback for it </GRIPE>

From trying them, Fifth Frontier Thrust seems best of the two you've
quoted, although the spinal weapons are truly screwed up.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 16:45:13 -0600
From: "Christopher B. Thrash" <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: mass starship combat

> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 11:52:32 -0500
> From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
> Subject: Re: mass starship combat revisited
> 
> Don McKinney <dmckinne@itds.com> writes:
> >High Guard is a combat system between starships.  There is no part of 
> >High Guard which is a "here's what's on this side, here's what's on 
> >that side, roll a die and here's the final results" system.
> >
> >I want a mass combat resolution system.  Perhaps that's clearer?
> 
> OK, let's establish some parameters. 
> 
> 1) Do you want a die roll per side and the entire battle is resolved, or
> would you prefer a few die rolls (and/or decision points) so you could
get
> some storyline detail (eg. "Enli's cruisers make a swift attack on the
> left flank. The enemy pulls reserve units to meet the threat. Varnak's
> battle squadron make a suicide attack on the centre, which crumbles the
> line and lets the rest of the fleet pour through to victory").
> 
> 2) Will you be maneuvering squadron independently of this system, or do
> you want strategic movement as well?
> 
> 3) Will player-characters have an influence on/be influenced by the final
> outcome?
> 
> 4) What is it about Fifth Frontier War/Imperial Squadrons you don't
> like/don't find suitable?
> 
> 5) Would a fleet equivalent of the abstract system from Book 4 Mercenary
> be what you're looking for?
> 

For what it's worth, GURPS Compendium II has a couple of abstract and mass
combat systems that are character results-oriented, rather than strictly
wargames.  These would be reasonably easy to adapt, if that is the sort of
thing you're looking for.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 16:40:28 -0600
From: "Christopher B. Thrash" <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 01:32:50 -0800
> From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
> Subject: Re: Smuggling
> 
> ...
> >And every captain in space, innocent or not, is going to be
> >saying exactly that every port he goes to.  ("I've been CLEARED
> >for the same *#$%^ thing six different times, including the last
> >time I was HERE!!!")
> 
>   Is there a GURPS disad, "jinxed"?
> 

There is, and it works as described earlier.  What you may be looking for
is Unluckiness [-10 points]: once per play session, the GM can make
something go viciously and maliciously wrong for you.  He can't actually
kill you outright, but anything else is fair game.  Some vehicles
(starships, say) can be Unlucky in lieu of more mechanical difficulties as
well, and this would reduce the cost of the Starship Patron advantage (the
latter is my house rule, and not official).

Needless to say, GM finesse is necessary to make this enjoyable.  I use a
3x5 card marked "Unluckiness" that I have to hand to the player involved
when I invoke the disadvantage, so that they know what's happening (I run
Luck the same way, in reverse).  Running gags -- like having your cargo
minutely inspected at *every* port -- are also a good way to make the
situation humorous instead of adversarial.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 16:53:25 -0600
From: "Christopher B. Thrash" <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: Starport Hierarchy

> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 13:06:39 EST
> From: CPsyop@aol.com
> Subject: Re: Starport Hiearchy (WAS Re: Smuggling)
> 
> In a message dated 11/21/98 9:49:53 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> adahma@starport.org writes:
> 
> > Are the levels of rank within an Imperial starport?  Are they civil,
> >  military, or what?
> >  
> >  Sorry if this is elementary.  I'm a recent convert, thanks to GURPS,
but
> >  don't find that issue addressed anywhere in that material.
> >  
> >  Adahma
> 
> There was an article on starports and starport personnel (to include
> career/character generation info) in an early edition of Journal of the
> Traveller's Aid Society.  

The forthcoming GURPS Traveller: Starports and Starbases will cover the
Imperial Starport Authority in some detail.  It is being written by the
same John M. Ford that wrote the original article for the JTAS, should be
out early next spring (if I understand SJ Games' development schedule).

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 09:22:55
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Starport Heirachy

>From: Adahma <adahma@starport.org>
>Subject: Starport Hiearchy (WAS Re: Smuggling)
>
>> (1) It has been suggested that Starport Administrator is a good job for an
>> Imperial Noble.
>> 
>
>Are the levels of rank within an Imperial starport?  Are they civil,
>military, or what?
>

My personal view is that they are civil, and important nobles get important
starports, while a class E/class I starport could get run by some Knight
who made the mistake of making a pass at the wrong person, and suddenly
found himself on this iceball with a handgun, a navigation beacon, a
collapsible fuel tank and four hundred pounds of explosive to clear a
landing field with.

Needless to say, our noble may not run the place themselves, but may have
flunkies to do this for him.

Hey, thats a neat adventure hook ... 'There's a bar fight ... call the
brute squad ... wait a sec, we *are* the brute squad'.

I'd say that running a starport would involve having one level of Status
and Administrator rank per quality of starport, with perhaps Security
Clearance and Wealth as appropriate.

You could either run them on salary (perhaps inadequate), or on a
percentage of turnover (it's a fief), or on the basis of whatever you can
skim off without getting arrested (we *did* mention the Imperium is
corrupt, didnt we ? Check G:T p126, and note that Bribery existed as a
seperate skill in all flavours of Traveller ...).

Military starports are the Naval bases, and they are a different story.

>Sorry if this is elementary.  I'm a recent convert, thanks to GURPS, but
>don't find that issue addressed anywhere in that material.

S'ok. The thing you have to remember about the Imperium is it is big,
diverse and has a long history, so if you think something is cool (for
example, buying commissions in the IN as a way of justifying that character
who wants to run a Filthy-Rich-if-incompetant Naval Captain), then justify
it through 'It's left over from a memo signed by Grand Admiral Arbatrella
just before she left to solve the Civil Wars, and it's never been revoked
that commissions in the 371st Fleet may be sold at auction'.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 09:26:10
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: AK 111 Ketch

>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
>Subject: AK 111 class Ketch
>
>Features
> 1 x Decontamination Airlock
> 1 x Ship's locker (0.05 Td ea.)
> 1 x Gym (2.5 Td ea.)
> 1 x 10 Td Fuel Bladder (1 Td ea.)
> 1 x Ordinary Galley (Cap: 8)

The galley I could vaguely justify, but a *gym* on a 100 dton freighter ?

What are you shipping, yuppies ?

Ian Whitchurch

PS As usual, a very cool design

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 15:24:57 -0800
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
Subject: Jinxed (was Re: Smuggling)

On Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:21:08 +1300, Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
wrote:

>>  Is there a GURPS disad, "jinxed"?
>
>Yes, but it doesn't work like that. It's quite neat though - everybody
>around the jinxed character (but not the jinxed one) takes a penalty to all
>their skill/stat/etc rolls. For a -1 penalty it's worth 20 pts., for a -2
>40, and for a -3 60 points. Note that the other players aren't told about
>the jinx (at least not if you've any brains), so the only way to work out
>the cause of the bad luck is to observe the improvement in performance when
>the jinx isn't around.

While this is cute, I happen not to like Jinxed, for the simple reason that
one player gets extra points for penalizing the other players (who are not
consulted on the matter).  The same is true of Weirdness Magnet - which is
also redundant with the zero-point advantage/disadvantage, "Player Character."


- --------------
Kelly St.Clair
kellys@efn.org

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 15:10:11 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com> wrote

> >Besides, information is "ripple effect" driven.  It propagates
> >outward from the point of insertion into the Government Datanet
> >at various rates;  usually jump-4.

> Except that information travels at different speeds along
> different routes.  

> >Which means it is possible to trip over a warrant from *years*
> >ago and have to deal with the ensuing headaches ("I was CLEARED,
> >I tell you!").

> And every captain in space, innocent or not, is going to be
> saying exactly that every port he goes to.  ("I've been CLEARED
> for the same *#$%^ thing six different times, including the last
> time I was HERE!!!")

Without wanting to start up the "unalterable transponders" thread again
maybe the Imperium needs some way be able to make a note on the Captains
Imperial ID noting that he was, indead, cleared of the charges. 

I would suggest using some sort of read only media on each Imperial ID
card into which the judgement of the court could be placed.  See example
below.

"Mora/Mora 106-1112 Imperial Court #4 Baroness Judy Slobotnik presiding

It is the judgement of this court that Eneri Jones
[IMP ID # T5R 2K8 C5F 2Z7]      is Not Guilty of Barratry.  So it is
said, so it is written, so it is so.  This concludes the finding of this
court."

[Actually I think that all Imperial Courts should probably invoke the
name of the Emperor in each decsion but I am not sure what would sound
right.]

Naturally the news would be written on his Imp ID card and go out by X
boat routes.  Therefore it would not be in Eneri's best interests to hop
a jump six fast courier the moment the moment the verdict is pronounced.
The next planet he arrived at would not have heard of his trial and
exoneration and he could easily be shot "While resisting arrest."  If
not he would probably be held while the news of the verdict arrived on
the planet.  The authorites there might even conclude that he had forged
the decision onto his ID and retry him for the crime (with forgery &
possibly treason charges added on), find him guilty and have him neatly
executed before the news that he was found not guilty arrived.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 15:21:47 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: IMOJ (was Re: Harassment Insurance)

Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior) wrote

> > When I started playing Traveller in the Spinward Marches back in 
> > *gasp*1979, I think most people saw it as being that way. 

> My personal 'breakpoint' was the Ministry of Justice article in
> JTAS/Challenge, which dictated one agent per 100,000 citizens. That,
> combined with the Imperial Law article (which stuck very closely to > the American legal system) was when my campaign started to break with canon.

Given the population of the Imperium this would mean that the IMOJ has
150,000,000 agents.  Did the article say one _agent_ per 1000,000 or 
one employee per 100,000?

On the other hand given that most planets in the Imperium have a
population of less that 100,000 unless the IMOJ rounds up on their
personnel assignments most planets would not have an agent.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 12:47:55 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Web page Trademark Disclaimers

I've been updating my web site, and it has occured to me that some of the
legal blurb that I got from IG:

Traveller is a registered trademark of Far Future Enterprises.
Portions of this material are Copyright ©1977-1996 Imperium Games, Inc.

probably don't really apply now. Could someone in the know please inform me
as to a better note for my site?

Thanks

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 13:03:56 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Hello again, Capital Ships and Space Opera (long)

Hello, I'm back after a several month break, so "Hi" to you all.

I was going through some of my old rpg material the other day when I
realised that I was holding the answer to the lack of big ships for
Alternity in my hands. I've got a number of supplements for the old FGU
game _Space Opera_, amung them _Sheldon's Compendium of Starcraft_ 1 and 2.
These books have quite a number of ships in them, both large and small (54
in total, to be exact), and by converting the large ships I figured I'd get
a good range of ships from Destroyers to Battleships for little effort.
Thus I threw together a conversion 'system' to convert Space Opera ships to
Alternity, which I'm noe posting on the off-chance that someone finds it
useful.

Converting Space Opera Ships to Alternity v1.1.2

Note: These guidelines divide PL7 into early, mid, and late. These are
shown by: PL7e, PL7m and PL7l, respectively.

For small ships convert their tonnage to Dur on the following table and
redesign using Alternity.

Space Opera Tonnage	Alternity Dur (Civilian/Military)
100-   8/10
250-   16/20
500-   24/30
1000-  32/40
2500-  40/50
5000-  48/60

For larger ships just convert the stats and don't worry too much about
whether they're possible or not.

Durability
DUR = Space Opera DC/25 round to the nearest whatever if it pleases you.

BattleScreens
These become Deflection Inducers. BattleScreens of +15 or more only suffer
a +1 penalty for a Critical Failure, get triple the bonus against non-space
weapons and double vs. Standard space weapons. Those of +30 or more also
get +1 extra to their bonus vs. Attack.

Armour
Space Opera   Alternity 
BattleArmour  Armour Type
0 - +3        None
+4            Light Polymeric
+5            Medium Polymeric (TL7/PL7e)/ Light Alloy (TL8+/PL7m+)
+6            Light Cerametal
+7            Heavy Polymeric (TL7/PL7e)/ Medium Alloy (TL8/PL7m)/ 
              Light Neutronite (TL9/PL7l)
+8            Medium Cerametal
+9            Heavy Alloy (TL7/PL7e)/ Medium Neutronite (TL8+/PL7m+)
+10           Heavy Cerametal
+11 - +12     Heavy Neutronite
+13 or more   Heavy Neutronite x (BattleArmour value/7, rounded to the 
              nearest 0.5)

Nova Guns
N*200+ are considered to be Particle Accelerators, unless the manufacturing
entity uses MegaBolt Torpedoes, in which case they are considered to be
Plasma Cannon. Small Nova Guns should be taken off the following table, as
should standard ship's weapons when converting. Twin turrets in Space Opera
ships should be taken to be single turrets in Alternity, and triple turrets
as single turrets with a -1 step to hit bonus.

Nova Gun Calibre  Alternity Weapon
N*25              Point-Defense Gun
N*50              Mass Cannon
N*75              Mass Cannon
N*100             Plasma Cannon
N*125             Plasma Cannon
N*150             Particle Accelerator
N*175             Particle Accelerator

For civilian Hardpoints and the smallest Hardpoints on military ships use
the following rule: Half the Hardpoints will become Point-Defense Guns, and
the other half will be read off the table above. Obviously this means that
N*25 calibre Hardpoints will all be Point-Defense Guns.

Long Range = Plasma/PAW long range + (Nova Gun maximum range - 500)/50
Short and Medium Range retain the same ratio to long range as the standard
Alternity weapons (round down).

Damage = Plasma/PAW damage x (Nova Calibre/100, round to the nearest 0.5)

Accuracy = +0 vs. Large Ships, and +1 vs. Standard Ships.

MegaBolt Torpedoes
Considered to be very large Mass Converters, with corresponding Acc and
special effects. Their range is the same as that of a Mass Converter (very
short). All MegaBolt Torpedo installations are considered single forward
mounted guns.

Damage = Mass Converter damage x (MegaBolt Calibre/100)

Accuracy = +0 vs. Large Ships, and +1 vs. Standard Ships.

StarTorps
Large Space Opera StarTorps are considered to be large missiles with large
Matter Cannon shells as warheads. As a result they the smaller ones aren't
too accurate. The ST*775s have good ECM systems, however and are thus quite
accurate against large ships. None of the larger StarTorps are very
accurate vs. Standard sized ships however, because they are not very
maneuverable.

Calibre  Range     Damage            Acc
ST*157   ST*157s are considered to be normal missiles, with all stats as
the particular 
         type of missile loaded.
ST*257   10/20/30  Matter Cannon x2  +1 (+1 vs. Standard ships)
ST*375   12/24/36  Matter Cannon x4  +0 (+2 vs. Standard ships)
ST*775   16/32/48  Matter Cannon x8  -1 (+2 vs. Standard ships)

The ST*775 takes two phases to reach long range, and thus doesn't make it's
attack roll until the phase after it was fired if the target is more than
32 Megametres away at the time of firing.

Maneuverability and Acceleration
For military ships take the Space Opera TISA acceleration and
cross-reference it on this table:
TISA Acceleration  Maneuverability
+5                 +3
+5/+15             +2
+5/+20             +1
+10/+20            +0
+10/+30            +0*
+15/+30            -1
+15/+45            -2
+15/+60            -2*
+25/+50            -3
+25/+75            -3*

*-1 bonus to maneuverability due to stabilization.

Acceleration and cruising velocity should be read off the Alternity table
as if the ship is using Induction drives (as that is exactly what it is in
fact now using).

Some classes of ship should probably get a -1 bonus for stabilizers and/or
high top speed e.g. Terran Battle Cruisers and perhaps MegaBolt armed ships.

For civilian ships take a look at their acceleration and their top speed
relative to the top speed for their tonnage.

Starfall
Take the ship's FTL speed in LY/Day and round to the nearest 5. That is the
ship's Starfall range in Light Years.

Computer Grade
Take off the following table:
Total Marks of all ship's computers	Alternity Quality
1 - 11                                   Marginal
12 - 14                                  Ordinary
15 - 17                                  Good
18+ or any total from 3+ computers       Astounding

Sensors
Civilian: Take your best guess based on the ship's range vs. The maximum
sensor range for that TL, and the ship's role.
Military: Military ships will, as a general rule, have all available
sensors for their PL, barring the Remote Network. The presence of a Remote
Network and the number of uses it has will be dependent on the type of
vessel, its role and the designer's nationality. As a guide use the table
below:

Ship's Class      Number of Uses
Commerce Raider   6
Fleet Corvette    None
Destroyer         None
Destroyer Escort  6
Light Cruiser     12
Heavy Cruiser     6
Fleet Cruiser     9
Battle Cruiser    15
Battleship        12
BattleStar        18

Add 3 uses at PL7l or later, and subtract 3 uses at PL7e (if this drops to
less than 6, no Remote Network is installed).

Communications
Like sensors, pretty much whatever seems reasonable.

ECM, etc.
For a Space Opera ECM value of 5+ give Chaff. For 10+ give Chaff, plus a
Jammer, and multiply the number of Chaff launchers and Jammers by 1 per
'full' 2.5 the ECM value is above 10.

Other Features
Ships will usually have enough small craft, Escape Pods and Reentry
Capsules for the whole complement plus passengers.

The cargo Dur of a ship will equal a percentage of its durability equal to
the percentage the cargo tonnage occupied in the original Space Opera design.

Damage Control:
Space Opera    Alternity
Standard       None
Superior       Ordinary
Comprehensive  Good
StarFleet      Astounding

Powerplant: The rating after type (if any) is the surplus power available
as a percentage. This gives a surplus in case of battle damage, and also
allows some maneuvering and firing during Starfall.

Boat Deck: The number and type of small craft carried. Use some general
equivalent. For the fighter flight deck assume that 100 m3 of Space Opera
flight deck means 1 Dur of hanger in Alternity.

Cost: As a very general rule Space Opera ships cost 10 - 20 times their
Alternity equivalents.

Compartments
Divide the ship into 5-10 compartments. There should be 1 Command, and
enough for most essential systems to be split between two compartments
(this doesn't matter so much for a civilian ship). There should be a
separate compartment for each weapon battery, with the StarTorps in with
the 1st Secondary Battery. 

I await comments, etc.

- -- 
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.

Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

   

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1174
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Saturday, November 21 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1175



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Capital Ships from Space Opera (long)
Re: Experience
RE Continents
Trade and Subbies
Re Mass Combat System
Great Brittain
Re Teleportation
Oops!
Re: Great Brittain
Re: Jinxed (was Re: Smuggling)
Re: Re Mass Combat System
Re: Trade and Subbies
Traveller High Guard Spreadsheets
Re: Web page Trademark Disclaimers
Cargo Containers for MT

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 13:04:10 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Capital Ships from Space Opera (long)

Here are two ships from _Space Opera_ that I've converted to _Alternity_
using the conversion system that I've also posted. I hope these are of some
interest, but be warned some of their stats won't make a lot of sense
without the conversion guidelines.

Azuriach Light Cruiser
The good old fashioned Star Destroyer ripoff.

Complement  1050   Damage Control  Good
Astronauts   125   Powerplant      20% reserve
Technical    425   Boat Deck       16 x Launch
Marines      500                   10 x Pinnace
Sick Bay      50                    2 x Shuttle
Cold Sleep    50   Flight Deck     320 Dur of fighters

                    Vengeance           Valorous             Volcanic
Progress Level      PL7e                PL7m                 PL7l
Maneuverability     +0                  +0                   +0
Acceleration        2 Mpp               2 Mpp                2 Mpp
Cruising Velocity   1.5 Au/Hr           1.5 Au/Hr            1.5 Au/Hr
Atmospheric Speed   1500 km/h           1500 km/h            1500 km/h
Starfall            25LY                25LY                 30LY
Durability          2100                2200                 2300
Deflection Inducer  Double Std.         Double Std.          Double Std.
Armour              Hvy. Neut. x3       Hvy. Neut. x3.5      Hvy. Neut. x3.5
Main Battery        6 x Particle Beam Turret
   Range            7/14/21             7/14/22              7/14/23
   Damage multiplierx3                  x3                   x3
Secondary Battery   6x Mass Cannon Turret
   Range            5/10/15             5/10/15              5/10/15
   Damage multiplierx1                  x1                   x1
Point Defense       x6                  x6                   x6
Torpedoes           2 x ST*375 Turret, Acc +0 (+2)
   Range            12/24/36            12/24/36             12/24/36
   Damage multiplierx4                  x4                   x4
   Magazine         50 each             50 each              50 each
Missiles            2 x Standard Turret
   Magazine         50 each             50 each              50 each
Computer            Good                Astounding           Astounding
ECM                 (Chaff & Jam.) x2   (Chaff & Jam.) x2    (Chaff & Jam.) x3
Sensors             EM detector         EM detector          EM detector
                    IR detector         IR detector          IR detector
                    Mass detector       Mass detector        Mass detector
                    Multiband radar     Multiband radar      Multiband radar
                    Spectroanalyser     Spectroanalyser      Spectroanalyser
                    Remote network (9)  Remote network (12)  Remote network
(15)
Communications      Laser Transceiver   Laser Transceiver    Laser Transceiver
                    Radio Transceiver   Radio Transceiver    Radio Transceiver
                    Mass Transceiver    Mass Transceiver     Mass Transceiver
Cargo               125 Dur             130 Dur              140 Dur
Cost                $305,000,000        $335,000,000         $368,750,000

Imperial BattleStar
And you thought Light Cruisers were hard...
There is no PL7e version of the BattleStar because the R&D took so long
that none were built until mature PL7 technology was availible.

Complement  10000   Damage Control  Astounding
Astronauts   1000   Powerplant      20% reserve
Technical    4000   Boat Deck       50 x Launch
Marines      5000                   50 x Pinnace
Sick Bay      350                   20 x Shuttle
Cold Sleep   1000                   10 x Lander
                    Flight Deck     640 Dur of fighters

                    Irresistable         Triumph
Progress Level      PL7m                 PL7l
Maneuverability     +3                   +3
Acceleration        0.25 Mpp             0.25 Mpp
Cruising Velocity   0.3 Au/Hr            0.3 Au/Hr
Atmospheric Speed   300 km/h             300 km/h
Starfall            10LY                 10LY
Durability          27600                28800
Deflection Inducer  Double +1            Double +1
Armour              Hvy. Neut. x7        Hvy. Neut. x7
Main Battery        7 x Particle Beam Turret, Acc -1
   Range            11/22/34             12/24/36
   Damage multiplierx10                  x10
Secondary Battery A 16x Particle Beam Turret
   Range            6/13/20              6/13/20
   Damage multiplierx2                   x2
Secondary Battery B 16x Mass Cannon Turret
   Range            5/10/15              5/10/15
   Damage multiplierx1                   x1
Point Defense       x16                  x16
Torpedoes           4 x ST*775 Turret, Acc -1 (+2)
   Range            16/32/48             16/32/48
   Damage multiplierx8                   x8
   Magazine         50 each              50 each
Missiles            4 x Standard Turret
   Magazine         50 each              50 each
Computer            Astounding           Astounding
ECM                 (Chaff & Jam.) x3    (Chaff & Jam.) x3
Sensors             EM detector          EM detector
                    IR detector          IR detector
                    Mass detector        Mass detector
                    Multiband radar      Multiband radar
                    Spectroanalyser      Spectroanalyser
                    Remote network (18)  Remote network (21)
Communications      Laser Transceiver    Laser Transceiver
                    Radio Transceiver    Radio Transceiver
                    Mass Transceiver     Mass Transceiver
Cargo               975 Dur              1000 Dur
Cost                $8,008,750,000       $8,807,500,000

I've got these and four more in a Word 6.0/95 file, so if anyone's
interested they can contact me and I'll send them a copy. Likewise I can
send a Word version of the conversion rules. I can also convert them into
other formats, but I make no promises about the formatting in this case.

- -- 
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.

Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

   

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 17:03:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Mixon <tlmixon@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Experience

- ---Paul Schirf <pc@PerkWorks.com> wrote:

> > On the character's birthday, EPs are examined. The EP with the 
> > highest
> > level
> >of usage is converted to one level of skill and awarded to the 
> > character.
> > All
> >other Experience Points are lost.
> 
> To prevent the Navigation-1 Pilot-20 problem that may quickly (or
not > so
> quickly) develop... why not retain the experience points from the
> non-advancing
> skills.  Thus, unless the use of one skill REALLY outweighs the
other > skill,
> a number of skills have the opportunity to advance.
> 
> Example: Han has Pilot-2, Bribery-1.  He uses Pilot 12 times (12 EP)
> and Bribery 10 times (10 EP).  He advances to Pilot-3 on his
birthday > and
> begins the next year with Pilot-0*, Bribery-10*.  The next year he
> accumulates
> 11 more Pilot EP (Pilot-11*) and 7 more Bribery EP (Bribery-17*), so 
> on his
> next birthday be advances to Bribery-2 and begins the next birthday 
> with
> Pilot-11*, Bribery-0*.  etc...

I would like to throw my voice in to seconding this kind of amendment.

Terry Mixon
_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 14:24:35 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: RE Continents

>Okay, now I'm confused.  How many continents are there?  Is P.E.I. not
>part of N. Amer., now?  Let's see, Cuba is part of the Antartic
>continent, but Key West is in the Dutch West Indies?  My head hurts.
>I've heard of continental drift, but I didn't think that I'd been out
>of school THAT long!  Or is this part of the Redistricting thing that
>Congress keeps talking about?  Will the 2000 census straighten all of
>this out for us?  Someone pass the asprin, please.
>
Continents:
	Africa, Asia, North Am., South Am., Europe, Australia (AKA
Australasia),
 	Antarctica. Sometimes Europe and asia are considered a single
continent,
	called Eurasia)
Subcontinents
	India, Arabia, (by some definitions) Central (or Middle) america,
	Greenland.

Plates doen't enter into continent definitions, per se. They just happen to
overlap in many cases.

The city of Anchorage, Alaska, sits on the edge of the N.Am Plate, and
several "Exotic Terrains" or "Microplates"... bits of other plates scraped
off, bits of plates otherwise long gone....

SoCal also crosses plate boundaries, and has several exotic terains.

PEI, Nova Scotia... they are definitely part of N Am... Hawaii, no. Cuba,
Dominca, maybe... (some claim them as part of central america, others as
part of north america, and others as non-continental islands....)

Hope this successfully muddles thigs up... <G>

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:aramis@gci.net> Note: All other E-mail addresses for me expire by
the end of november 1998!
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
UTUP 0309 6-7779577-5-5-2
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 15:59:30 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Trade and Subbies

>        This is a StarShip economics question.  The problem is that the
>basic "I am just hauling containers" rules are broken...  a TL-15 sub
>merchant can't pay the bills required to run it...  Presuming full cargo
>holds every trip, 75/25 split between high and mid passengers, rigged for
>mail, full low berths and properly crewed, after annual maintaince makes
>less than MCr1.0 per year.  In perspective, that is less than 3 payments, or
>say, a 1% return on investment.

The point of the subbie isn't to make money, but to provide a largish
"Small ship" for the outlying areas that no bank would otherwise finance.
Assuming it is subsidized, it doesn't need to make a clean profit, just
cover crew salries, fuel and maintenance; the subsidizer takes 1/2 of the
left over, if any, for 40 years, then turns over the ship to the subsized
owner/operator.

Under MT, A subbie crew can make a profit, assuming no monthly payments. It
just cannot make a profit with only carried containers while making monthly
payments. Once "paid off", it can make a tidy profit. And, if it carries
speculative cargos, it can make a killing.

>        If we premise that the Big Boys are the only ones hauling containers
>and the side-show traffic is handling break-bulk, then I'd say the cost of
>the "Smart Container" is written into the 1KCr/ton fee (move enough of them
>and ignore the small dent).  For the side-show guys, its just a bit more fat
>on the bottom line doing break-bulk.

I don't like "Smart Containers"... I use a standard container, property of
IMoT, in the following sizes: 1Td, 2Td, 4Td, 8Td. (The containers are in
Striker/MT terms AV8, TL 12).

For Ex: the 1 Td (Using MT Design Sequence)
			Pwr	Vol	Mass	Cr
Disp 1			-	[13.5]	 1.5	3300
Config 4 (BoxUSL)	-	-	x1	  x0.6
Armor TYpe F (SD)	-	-	x0.26	  x1
Armor Value 8		-	-	x2	  x2
			=====	=====	=====	=====
			-	-	 0.78	3960
Basic Mechanical Ctrl	-	  0.4	 0.1	   5	1 panel.
			=====	=====	=====	=====
				13.1	 0.88	3965
This allows a vaccum sealable container (Hard Times/One small step) that is
not intended for protection from stellar radiation nor microasteoridals.
I figure rental on the containers is about Cr 100 per month (pays in 40
months), with a one month minimum.

Reefer Box add
BEnv			0.0135	0.0675	0.0675	 135	Rental addition Cr5

Live Cargo add
ExLS, BLS & BEnv	0.054	0.783	0.783	6885	Rental Addition Cr 200

all the above can operate off of 1 mechanical panel. THe add-ons assume
external power.
Larger boxes are cheaper.

>        IMTU, I say that if it is going out-system, then its containerized
>(except for special items, like ATVs, which are RO-RO).  Container traffic
>runs Cr2500Cr per ton per jump.  Containers are either 1/2ton or  1 ton.
>There is a 30Cr fee per container at starports for maint and sterilization.

I think your container costs a bit low... (This is still much cheaper than
under GURPS Vehicles; PN and I figured that out... YEOWCH!!!)

I'll run up some additonal (MT) containers an post them later.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:aramis@gci.net> Note: All other E-mail addresses for me expire by
the end of november 1998!
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
UTUP 0309 6-7779577-5-5-2
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 15:25:29 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re Mass Combat System

>Ok:
>
>Did anyone ever design a mass combat system for ANY edition of Traveller
>starship combat?
>
>Help!
>
>
>DonM.

If you use the vehicular combat rules with appropriate movement addon (say,
Mayday?), you can use the large scale combat rules to any scale. I've done
this on rare occasions.

If you use the HG-based ship combat rules, not really.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:aramis@gci.net> Note: All other E-mail addresses for me expire by
the end of november 1998!
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
UTUP 0309 6-7779577-5-5-2
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 15:21:54 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Great Brittain

>From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
>Subject: Re: Geography of North America
>
>CardSharks@aol.com wrote:
>
>>I am reminded of the introduction of someone or other...
>>
>>May I introduce So-and-so of Britain, formerly Great Britain.
>
>
>That's the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, thank you
>very much.
>
>;-)
>
>Dom
>

IIRC, Aren't these the working definitions:

Brittain: The island containing England, Scotalnd, and Wales.
Great Brittain: The Govenrment covering the Island of Brittain, composed of
3 local regional sub-governments of England, Scotland and Wales.
United Kingdom: Great Brittain, and the dependancies of N. Ireland,
Brittish Virgin Islands, Singapore, the Falkland Islands, and a handful of
other small dependancies.

Commonwealth of Nations: A non-governmental trade body consisting of the UK
and it's former dependancies who have left under peaceful means, but
generally still use the monarch as the facce on the coins and currencies....

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:aramis@gci.net> Note: All other E-mail addresses for me expire by
the end of november 1998!
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
UTUP 0309 6-7779577-5-5-2
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 16:05:10 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re Teleportation

>>From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
>>Subject: Re: teleportation
>>
>>I'm sure that anti-matter bombs had to be teleported at least 10,000km in
>>front of the ship.
>>
>
>Not under Captains - you could put t-bombs anywhere. They did have a time
>delay of 2 1/2 impulses before going off, which usually meant you put them
>in front of the enemy so they'd be armed by the time the enemy was almost
>on top of them.
>
Under SFB Commanders AND Captains: you cannot transport a t-bomb to go off
inside another unit. It has fail-safes to prevent it fom going off in
enclosed spaces (for handling purposes, primarily, but also game ballance),
and under Captains (D15, D16, specifically) you cannot transport directly
to control spaces due to transporter shielding. Bridge H&R Raids are
basically beam just outside the control space, blow down the doors, lob a
few photon grenades, and beam back out.

Ob Trav: What kind of security systems are used for control spaces on Trav
Ships? IMTU, most imperial designs in the DD have psi shielding on the
bridges to prevent Zhodani Teleporters from taking the bridge directly.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:aramis@gci.net> Note: All other E-mail addresses for me expire by
the end of november 1998!
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
UTUP 0309 6-7779577-5-5-2
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 13:31:06 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Oops!

Sorry, the last two messages were sent to the wrong address. They were
meant to go to a friend & the Alternity list.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 01:51:24 +0000
From: Mark Watson <markw@antares.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Great Brittain

"William F. Hostman" wrote:

> IIRC, Aren't these the working definitions:
>
> Brittain: The island containing England, Scotalnd, and Wales.
> Great Brittain: The Govenrment covering the Island of Brittain, composed of
> 3 local regional sub-governments of England, Scotland and Wales.
> United Kingdom: Great Brittain, and the dependancies of N. Ireland,
> Brittish Virgin Islands, Singapore, the Falkland Islands, and a handful of
> other small dependancies.

One 't' in Britain, British, etc.
British Isles = Great Britain, Ireland, various other smaller islands like the
Isle of Man
Great Britain = the island which contains England, Scotland & Wales
United Kingdom = the state, which includes the countries of England, Scotland,
Wales and Northern Ireland, and dependent territories
Places like the Falklands are (apart from being very few in number) kind of half
and half and as far as I recall do not have full citizenship. The main ones
(since the handover of Hong Kong) are the Falklands and Gibraltar, mainly
because they annoy other countries.
Singapore is a sovereign nation in its own right

>
> Commonwealth of Nations: A non-governmental trade body consisting of the UK
> and it's former dependancies who have left under peaceful means, but
> generally still use the monarch as the facce on the coins and currencies....
>

It's not a trading bloc like the European Union (which begand as a trading bloc,
but is now more than that); countries in the Commonwealth do not automatically
get favourable terms for trade. It's effectively an institution whereby most of
the countries who have had British rule and culture imposed on them can run
joint (cultural) programs, network, etc. Many of the member countries are
republics, and have no association with the British monarch, other than that she
is head of the commonwealth. The principal common factor is the English
language. Several former colonies/possessions are not members (USA, Ireland and
I think Yemen), at any given time at least one has probably been expelled
(currently Nigeria, again I could be wrong), and at least one member
(Mozambique, a former Portugese possession) was never a British possession and
does not speak English, except at ambassadorial parties.

They can all beat us at football though
M

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 14:26:37 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Jinxed (was Re: Smuggling)

At 15:24 21/11/98 -0800, Kelly St.Clair wrote:

>While this is cute, I happen not to like Jinxed, for the simple reason that
>one player gets extra points for penalizing the other players (who are not
>consulted on the matter).  The same is true of Weirdness Magnet - which is
>also redundant with the zero-point advantage/disadvantage, "Player
Character."

That is just about exactly what everybody I've ever played GURPS with has
said about it, for the same reasons.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 21:57:38 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Re Mass Combat System

        I was thinking earlier today that JTAS ran a couple of articles
written by a two-time TCS Tournament winner who discussed fleet planning in
terms of %losses based on the odds of getting a "kill" critical.  I have the
JTAS' I am thinking of, and this might be a good way to resolve mass-fleet
engagements under High-Guard.
        Basically, for Mesons for example, you take the %to-hit x %to pen
configuration x %to pen screen x%to score a critical.  You wind up with a
tiny number that is the total odds of a given attack disabling the target;
that is the %losses you inflict.  Add a bit of randomness to skew the
bell-curve around (1d; 1 %losses /4, 2 %losses/2, 3-4 %losses as indicated,
5 %losses x1.5, 6 %losses x2) and that would resolve by software program
pretty quickly.
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 21:57:38 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Trade and Subbies

At 03:59 PM 21/11/98 -0900, you wrote:
>>        This is a StarShip economics question.  The problem is that the
>>basic "I am just hauling containers" rules are broken...  a TL-15 sub
>>merchant can't pay the bills required to run it...  Presuming full cargo
>>holds every trip, 75/25 split between high and mid passengers, rigged for
>>mail, full low berths and properly crewed, after annual maintaince makes
>>less than MCr1.0 per year.  In perspective, that is less than 3 payments, or
>>say, a 1% return on investment.
>
>The point of the subbie isn't to make money, but to provide a largish
>"Small ship" for the outlying areas that no bank would otherwise finance.
>Assuming it is subsidized, it doesn't need to make a clean profit, just
>cover crew salries, fuel and maintenance; the subsidizer takes 1/2 of the
>left over, if any, for 40 years, then turns over the ship to the subsized
>owner/operator.
>

        Hi, William!  Vaild point.

>>        IMTU, I say that if it is going out-system, then its containerized
>>(except for special items, like ATVs, which are RO-RO).  Container traffic
>>runs Cr2500Cr per ton per jump.  Containers are either 1/2ton or  1 ton.
>>There is a 30Cr fee per container at starports for maint and sterilization.
>
>I think your container costs a bit low... (This is still much cheaper than
>under GURPS Vehicles; PN and I figured that out... YEOWCH!!!)
>
>I'll run up some additonal (MT) containers an post them later.
>
        I'm running CT, but I think that this'd be valuable to others on the
list.  My container costs are on the premise that like the RealWorld(tm) the
transporting craft is borrowing the containers or, more likely, just moving
them for someone who is borrowing them.  However, the customs & quarentine
charges are paid by the shipper.
        When I go back to work on Monday, I am going to ask our traffic
co-ordinator what it costs us to ship 2TFU-load of product from Halifax to
Antwerp.  I believe by G3, that is a week-ish trip, so it'll be an interest
RealWorld(tm) benchmark.
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:54:50 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Traveller High Guard Spreadsheets

        I've gotten several requests for this, so it (and a few others) are
now in a ZIP archive on my Traveller website.  Go to
"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller/software.html" and click the
spinning disk.  
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 21:56:53 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Web page Trademark Disclaimers

Rupert Boleyn wrote:

> I've been updating my web site, and it has occured to me that some of the
> legal blurb that I got from IG:
>
> Traveller is a registered trademark of Far Future Enterprises.
> Portions of this material are Copyright ©1977-1996 Imperium Games, Inc.
>
> probably don't really apply now. Could someone in the know please inform me
> as to a better note for my site?

The copyrights might have reverted.  But you're fine with that.
Except maybe for the dates.  I don't think Imperium games was
existant in 1977.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 17:53:22 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Cargo Containers for MT

>        If we premise that the Big Boys are the only ones hauling containers
>and the side-show traffic is handling break-bulk, then I'd say the cost of
>the "Smart Container" is written into the 1KCr/ton fee (move enough of them
>and ignore the small dent).  For the side-show guys, its just a bit more fat
>on the bottom line doing break-bulk.

I don't like "Smart Containers"... I use IMTU a standard container,
property of IMoT, in the following sizes: 1Td, 2Td, 4Td, 8Td. (The
containers are in Striker/MT terms AV8, TL 12). Pretty dumb, but still not
cheap. The reasoning for giving them vacc-capable hulls is simple:
survivability in case of bay depressurization. They can be handled in
vaccum. They can (for short periods) survive harsh atmospheres... Big lines
and multi--system broker conglomerates may own their own. The truly
paranoid might add a 1L computer and commo package for a "Smart Container",
as well as enough battery power for this. Huge, commercial, high volume
units willl probably come in 10, 20, 50, and 100 Td sizes, with only dry or
refer versions.

For comparison, Striker/MT AV8 = 2cm of hard steel. Striker does, but MT
doesn't, consider armor volumes (One of my gripes about MT... See, I even
pick on MT ;^)

Summaries:
All Config 4USL, Armor 8F, TL 12. Designed under MT, with 1Td=13.5 KL

Unit    Carried     Unit    Mass       Rental   Power
Code	 Vol	    Cost   (empty)     Cost    Required
1-Dry    13.1       3965     0.88       100      0
1-Ref    13.0325    4100     0.9475     105      0.0135 MW
1-Live   11.917    10855     1.763      275      0.108 MW
2-Dry    26.6       4445     1.244      115      0
2-Ref    26.475     4715     1.369      120      0.027
2-Live   24.234    18225     2.81       460      0.108
4-Dry    53.6       6965     1.92       175      0
4-Ref    53.35      7535     2.17       190      0.054
4-Live   48.868    34525     5.452      865      0.216
8-dry   107.2      12010     3.164      300      0
8-Ref   107.092    13090     3.664      330      0.108
8-Live   97.936    67125    10.128     1680      0.532

Dry: simply a sealable box, capable of holding vaccum (See Hard Times)
Refer: Adds basic environment (but not power source), so as to be able to
control temperature/humidity.
Live: Basic box  with basic environment, basic and extended life support,
and again, no power provided.

All use basic mechanical controls.
(Using MT Design Sequence)
the 1 Td
			Pwr	Vol	Mass	Cr
Disp 1			-	[13.5]	 1.5	3300
Config 4 (BoxUSL)	-	-	x1	  x0.6
Armor TYpe F (SD)	-	-	x0.26	  x1
Armor Value 8		-	-	x2	  x2
			=====	=====	=====	=====
			-	-	 0.78	3960
Basic Mechanical Ctrl	-	  0.4	 0.1	   5	1 panel.
			=====	=====	=====	=====
				13.1	 0.88	3965

Reefer Box add
BEnv			0.0135	0.0675	0.0675	 135	Rental addition Cr5

Live Cargo add
ExLS, BLS & BEnv	0.054	 0.783	0.783	6885	Rental Addition Cr 200
Basic Mechanical Ctrl	-	 0.4	0.1	   5	1 panel.
			=====	=====	=====	=====
			0.054	 1.183	0.883	6890

all the above can operate off of 1 mechanical panel. THe add-ons assume
external power.

2Td
		Pwr	Vol	Mass	Cr	CPR
Disp 2		-	[27]	 2.2	3700     -
Box USL 8F	-	  -	x0.52	  x1.2	 -
		=====	=====	=====	=====	=====
Hull		-	  -	 1.144	4440	 0.5328
BscMechCP x1	-	  0.4	 0.1	   5	[1]	1 panel.
		=====	=====	=====	=====	=====
		-	 26.6	 1.244	4445	[0.4672] Rental Cr125

Reefer Box add
BEnv		0.027	0.125	0.125	 270	0.0324	Rental addition Cr10

Live Cargo add
ELS+BLS+BEnv	0.108	  1.566	 1.566	13770	 1.6524	Rental Addition Cr350
BscMechCP x2	-	  0.8	 0.2	   10	[2]	2 panel.
		=====	=====	=====	=====	=====
		0.108	  2.366	 1.766	13780	[0.3476]

4Td
		Pwr	Vol	Mass	Cr	CPReq
Disp 4		-	[54]	 3.5	5800     -
Box USL 8F	-	  -	x0.52	  x1.2	 -
		=====	=====	=====	=====	=====
Hull		-	  -	 1.82	6960	 .8352
BscMechCP x1	-	  0.4	 0.1	   5	[1]	  1 panel.
		=====	=====	=====	=====	=====
		-	 53.6	 1.92	6965	[0.1648]  Rental Cr200

Reefer Box add
BEnv		0.054	0.25	0.25	 540	 0.0648	  Rental addition Cr20


Live Cargo add
ELS+BLS+BEnv	0.216	  3.132	 3.132	27540	 3.3048	Rental Addition Cr 700
BscMechCP x3	-	  1.6	 0.4	   20	[4]	4 panel.
		=====	=====	=====	=====	=====
		0.216	  4.732	 3.532	27560	[0.6952]

8Td
		Pwr	Vol	Mass	Cr	CPReq
Disp 8		-	[108]	 5.7	10000    -
Box USL 8F	-	   -	x0.52	  x1.2	 -
		======	======	======	======	======
Hull		-	   -	 2.964	12000	1.44
BscMechCP x2	-	   0.8	 0.2	   10	[2]	2 panel.
		======	======	======	======	======
		-	 107.2	 3.164	12010	[0.56]	Rental	300

Reefer Box add
BEnv		0.108	0.5	0.5	 1080	 0.1296	Rental addition Cr30


Live Cargo add
ELS+BLS+BEnv	0.532	  6.264	 6.264	55080	 6.6096
BscMechCP x1	-	  3.0	 0.7	   35	[7]	7 panel.
		=====	=====	=====	=====	=====
		0.532	  9.264	 6.964	55115	[0.3904]  Rental Addition
Cr1400

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:aramis@gci.net> Note: All other E-mail addresses for me expire by
the end of november 1998!
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
UTUP 0309 6-7779577-5-5-2
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1175
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Traveller-digest     Sunday, November 22 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1176



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Re Teleportation
Re: RE Continents
Re: Re Teleportation
Re: Capital Ships and Space Opera (Alternity?)
Re: Capital Ships and Space Opera (Alternity?)
Re: Capital Ships and Space Opera (Alternity?)
Re: Shivva Bridge / Fighters / Jump Drives
Re: Smuggling
Deca-class freighters
GT vehicles
Re: AK 111 Ketch
Smuggling
Re: Re Teleportation
General Grant class Bomb Ketch
Re: Smuggling 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:47:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: Re Teleportation

On Sat, 21 Nov 1998, William F. Hostman wrote:

> Ob Trav: What kind of security systems are used for control spaces on Trav
> Ships? IMTU, most imperial designs in the DD have psi shielding on the
> bridges to prevent Zhodani Teleporters from taking the bridge directly.

Thing is, according to CT (at least), "psi-shielding" blocks telepathy
_only_ -- nothing else.  Teleportation can't be blocked.

Kenji Schwarz

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 21:44:15 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: RE Continents

>
>PEI, Nova Scotia... they are definitely part of N Am... Hawaii, no. Cuba,
>Dominca, maybe... (some claim them as part of central america, others as
>part of north america, and others as non-continental islands....)
>
>Hope this successfully muddles thigs up... <G>
>

        Hi, William!
        Actually, there is a faultline that runs ride downt the SW-NE axis
of Nova Scotia.  The west side is native to the NA plate, but the East side
is geologically native to the *African* continent.  How's *that* for a muddle?
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:19:01 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Re Teleportation

Kenji Schwarz wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 21 Nov 1998, William F. Hostman wrote:
> 
> > Ob Trav: What kind of security systems are used for control spaces on Trav
> > Ships? IMTU, most imperial designs in the DD have psi shielding on the
> > bridges to prevent Zhodani Teleporters from taking the bridge directly.
> 
> Thing is, according to CT (at least), "psi-shielding" blocks telepathy
> _only_ -- nothing else.  Teleportation can't be blocked.
> 
> Kenji Schwarz

If one stretches this just a bit, to include any form of remote sensing
(not a big stretch, IMHO), a truly _twisted_ naval architect would still
psi-shield the bridge, to prevent the enemy from discerning the thoughts
of the command crew.  Said twisted architect would _also_ psi-shield
things such as a fuel tank near the bridge, a couple of high-radiation
areas near the psi-shielded engineering section, and other singularly
unpleasant places, on the theory that the telepaths would detect the
psi-shielding, and either:

	a.  Assume that the shielded area is a vital C2 node on the ship (thus
possibly getting the commando team to teleport to a messy and unpleasant
death), or

	b.  Assume that the naval architect was a sadistic SOB, who
psi-shielded a hazardous area deliberately to lure a commando team to a
messy and unpleasant death.

Either way, you cut down on the teleports onto selected areas of the
ship.

OTOH, I figure that anyone who tries to teleport from one moving ship
onto another deserves whatever damage he/she/it takes from differential
in kinetic energy.... 

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 20:27:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Sword Worlder <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Capital Ships and Space Opera (Alternity?)

- ---Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz> wrote:
>
> Hello, I'm back after a several month break, so "Hi" to you all.

Hi.  I'm new, so you don't know me.  I'm not new to Traveller, though.
 I'm a rabbid CT fanatic.

> I was going through some of my old rpg material the other day when I
> realised that I was holding the answer to the lack of big ships for
> Alternity in my hands. [huge snip]
>
>I await comments, etc.

I have been trying to find out what the deal is with that Alternity
thing.  I even joined a little on-line club of fans, but they seemed
pretty boring.  I saw the books at a book store, but didn't have a
chance to look it over.  My real question is should I farm the players
of that game for Traveller converts or are they just a bunch of
wild-eyed little snotgobblers to be ignored?  (Sorry, haven't had my
shot today).



==
- ------------------------><>------------------------
IMTU 0601 tc++ tm !tn t4+ ?tg ru++ 3i pi ta+ he+ 
http://come.to/traveller

You might be a Traveller fanatic if... your resume includes a UPP and skill listing!


_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:24:54 -0600
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Capital Ships and Space Opera (Alternity?)

or are they just a bunch of wild-eyed little snotgobblers to be ignored?  

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HEHEHEHEEEE

Something new to call my 7th grade students. 
They will hate it.

TV

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 17:42:45 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Capital Ships and Space Opera (Alternity?)

At 20:27 21/11/98 -0800, Sword Worlder wrote:

>I have been trying to find out what the deal is with that Alternity
>thing.  I even joined a little on-line club of fans, but they seemed
>pretty boring.  I saw the books at a book store, but didn't have a
>chance to look it over.  My real question is should I farm the players
>of that game for Traveller converts or are they just a bunch of
>wild-eyed little snotgobblers to be ignored?  (Sorry, haven't had my
>shot today).

From what I've seen a good chunk of the on-line people seem to be AD&D
players who bought it because TSR wrote it. OTOH they also seem to be quite
taken with the 'novel' idea of sci-fi roleplaying.

The game itself is mainly directed at the space opera genre, with fairly
heroic PC's and a task system that a vary wide range of possible results
from horrible failure to almost over-the-top success. However despite the
herooic tone the combat system is actually pretty deadly and has quite a
neat mechanism for post combat death by shock and bleeding - if you take
'mortal' damage you keep getting worse until you're sewn back up or die.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 00:07:19 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Shivva Bridge / Fighters / Jump Drives

> In TNE+ (FFS & FFS2) I would look at the TL of the Zho navy, and
> design weapons that *worked well* at that TL. Typical published
> material has been to cram a crappy laser into a 3 ton TNE turret for
> the Zhos when a 4 ton turret could have a good weapon. Why would we
> expect Zho weapons to be compatable with Imperial ones? (or Vargr,
> or Aslan, etc).

We shouldn't.   The Zhos at TL-14 should be using X-ray lasers (either grav
focused or no), which actually facilitates *smaller* turrets.  When I designed
my Hiver capital ships, i used ROF 200, 144 Mj Grav Focused Xray laser turrets
(on a 3dt turret assumption).  I then tinkered w/ the size of the focal array
(shrinking it) and got the volume down to 36m3 w/ optimum damage performance
out to 80 BL/BR hexes.  

I did use the 3/6 dt assumption, though.  More from familiarity than anything
else, but it is a useful size niche.  The detail could (and probably would)
vary according to actual volume.

> I'd assume that current (TL15) Imperial standards are such that TL
> 13-14 Imperial stuff has be refitted with smaller TL-15 sized
> weapons so that repairs are simpler. When max Imperial tech was 13,
> I bet the weapons were actually bigger than the new standards (IMHO,
> IMTU, YMMV :-)

I think the 3dt turret and 6dt barbette are actually decent for TL-12 (when
the Imperium started).  Once they get to TL-14, x-ray laser turrets would
probably be used over tunables, which allows for much smaller volumes
(especially w/ non grav-focusing, which isn't quite needed w/ x-ray lasers).  

> I'd like to see a nice overview of Zho doctrine (naval) and really
> look at making them (and other aliens) have ships that feel
> different than Imperial stuff.

Me 2.  Anyone wanna tackle this beast?  I've done alot of thought on the
Hivers.  I did my designing (Hiver cruiser, carrier, destroyer,  Ithklur
fighters, etc) in mind w/ a Hiver convoy to the Reformation Coalition,  I
think i'm likely to do some pre-collapse designs (which i touched on in the
design descriptions).  If for anything else, it'll make for some deadly
vampires to be prowling around...


Gary

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 00:07:21 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Smuggling

> David, mate. Commercial starships are in port for at least 24 hours.
> Therefore, you would have a record on the Commercial Starship Register
> unless you

I'm interested in any references from anyones TU for durations of landing
clearance and clearance to leave a system.  This ties into the
sensors/detection capabilities of a mainworld, which were largely consistent
until the DSR.

This whole issue goes more into "standard" customs procedures and system
traffic control (STC), and the volume of system traffic, of course.   How long
to detection/contact by STC?  Do they have a 300,000km PEMS at the starport?
I'm actually evnvisioning a network of probes... actually probably small
sensors stations maybe no more than 10dt... at least enough to cover the
mainworld to 100d limit for worlds outside the well of the primary and any gas
giants.

Could there perhaps be a simple equation to match various UWP digits?  I'm
thinking... if a mainworld has starport A and pop A, then it takes N hours to
get through the traffic pattern.  You want to take off and leave to another
system... how long of a wait to enter the traffic pattern?   Does anyone have
answers to that or does everyone do as I do and just say Xd amount of time, or
just skip it entirely?  I'm aware of nothing canonical in this regard (the G:T
TNS entry on the TJ bringing Strephon back to Capital and snarling the traffic
pattern of Capital comes to mind in something i'd like to be able to model).


Gary

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 16:53:27
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Deca-class freighters

Couple of comments first.

First, there is this rumour that ship costs have gone down in G:T. They
havent - the fact you dont have to buy a power plant is compensated for by
the fact you do have to pay for fuel tankage (and serious money, too). You
seem to need more maneuver drives under G:T as well.

Secondly, streamlining is vicious in G:T, at 20% of total volume, no
discounts. Unless this has been errata'd, I would argue it should be a 20%
increase in surface area (in effect, a 20% loss of DR), with no effect on
volume as such. Volume is only really a concept that applies in jump space,
and jump space doesnt care what shape you are, just how much volume you
take up.

OK. Here are the ships. The first one is a FFS2 TL9 8000 dton bulk
freighter. It's something I've been meaning to do for a while - see what
sort of ship you can build at TL9. I cheated slightly, and put in a TL10
HePLAR drive. The second one is a G:T compliant GT10 10 000t trader (with
the obligatory Honking Big Particle Accelerator).

Both ships come in at or around a gigacredit and can drive transport costs
well below Cr 1000 for one parsec. 

The ships arent really suitable for PC use, but they are excellent ships
for characters to have been on - either Decafreighter can expect a monthly
turnover in the tens of megacredits, so if you are a hot captain in charge
of one, you could easily be clocking up company bonuses that add up to a
downpayment on your very own Far Trader.

As usual, starship components are rounded up to the next MCr 0.1, to
provide for Ditzie's Retirement Fund.

FFS2 TL9 Decafreighter

8000 dton Short Cylinder (52m long, 52m diameter ; 12921.4 m2)

3 cm Light Ceramic Composite hull (388 m3, 2326t, MCr 3.5) <AF 21>

2200 MW Fusion planet (1100 m3, 4400t, MCr 220)

Jump-1 drive (2240 m3, 6720t, MCr 672)

Jump-1 fuel (11200 m3, 800t)

400 000 kN Heplar (200 m3, 200t, MCr 2) - NB must be paid for with TL10
credits

22.4 hours HFuel (11200 m3, 800t)

Large Stateroom (56 m3, 4t, MCr 0.1)

10 Small Stateroom (280 m3, 20t, MCr 0.1)

40 bunks (560 m3, 20t, MCr 0.1)

20 bridgestations (280 m3, 4t, MCr 0.2)

35 crewstations (245 m3, 7t, MCr 0.1)

Sens 13 Scanner (8m3, 8t, MCr 8)

Sens 14.5 LIDAR (10 m3, 20t, MCr 10)

3 CP2/CM 0.5 Computers (15 m3, 3t, MCr 0.75)

122 m3 Hi Auto Controls (122m3, 13t, MCr 1)
 
Misc Electronics (1 m3, 1t, MCr 1) <radio, laser comm, stuff like that>

Type III Life Support (896 m3, 896t, MCr 56) <23 MW demand>

Sickbay (112 m3, 50t, MCr 5)

10 Sanitary Facilites (35 m3, 0.5t, MCr 0.1)

10 Standard Airlocks (30 m3, 2t, MCr 0.1)

1000 m2 Cargo Hatch (MCr 1)

6650 dtons cargo (93 100m3, 93 100t)

Total : MCr 981.05, 109 600t

Crew : 51 total - 8 Command, 8 Maneuver, 4 Electronics, 11 Maintainence, 20
Engineering (Captain gets large stateroom, officers get singles, everyone
else gets a bunk and *likes* it)

Note the lack of namby-pamby facilities like artificial gravity, a gym, a
galley ... it's a ship that spins when it isnt pulling it's impressive 0.3
gees.

On the other hand, at TL9 and for under a gigacredit, you get to move 6650
dtons of cargo one parsec from orbit to orbit. Surface to orbit transfer
would be done through a number of smaller, streamlined contragravity craft.

OK, now the GT Decafreighter (GTL 10).


Hull : 170 t, MCr 8.5

20 000t armour : 20 000t, MCr 60 <DR 2353>

Command Bridge : 2 dt, 20.3t, MCr 9.6

Basic Bridge : 2.5 dt, 8.6 t, MCr 4

Engineering : 1 dt, 4.1t, MCr 0.32

1100 Mnvr : 1100 dt, 3740 t, MCr 176

200 Jump : 200 dt, 800 t, MCr 620

JFuel : 1000 dt, 1300 t, MCr 160 

Utility : 1 dt, 11.5 t, MCr 0.3

Missile Bay : 50 dt, 619 t, MCr 0.85

PAW Bay : 50 dt, 467t, MCr 22.9

10 Triple Lasers : 10 dt, 319t, MCr 20.4

2 Sickbays : 2 dt, 1.5 t, MCr 0.2

150 staterooms : 600 dt, 360 t, MCr 1.8

7000 dton cargo : 7000 dt, 35000 t

Total : 63 700t, MCr 1085

Crew is : 52 - 8 Command, 22 Maneuver, 8 Jump, 2 Missile, 2 PAW, 10
Lasers/Stewards. 8 single staterooms, 22 double staterooms. 120 passengers.

The armament should be enough to intimidate most pirates (the ship only
dedicates about 1.5% of volume to armament), which is just as well, because
the Decafreighter pulls 0.69 gees.

Under standard financing, a monthly payment is MCr 4.52/mo, so it looks to
be viable at about Cr 350 net for cargo and Cr 2750 net for passengers.

Now, if you rip 1000 dton of cargo, 100 dton of maneuver you can take it up
to jump-2 by adding 100 dton of Jump and 1000 dton of JFuel. Mass is
60060t, cost is MCr 1539. Crew goes up by a net 2 (lose 2 maneuver techs,
gain 4 Jump techs). A payment is MCr 6.41 a month, so it looks like it is
viable at around CR 600/Cr 4000 net. The ship still pulls about 2/3rds of a
gee.

If you go for jump-3, you get 1900 dton less of cargo, 300 dtons less of
maneuver, 200 dtons more of jump, 2000 dtons more of Jump fuel, for a net
mass of 56 580t, a net cost of MCr 1983. The smaller M-drive means the ship
pulls 0.55 gees, and the crew is 54 (eight more jump techs, 6 less maneuver
techs).

A payment in this case is MCr 8.27, so it looks to be viable at about Cr
850 for cargo, net Cr 6000 for passengers.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:28:49 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: GT vehicles

>Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 09:56:52 +1000
>From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>

>Also, a separate question - apart from the Psionics rules, what's missing
>from GURPS Lite that would stop it from being a viable way to run
>non-gearhead GT?

A few skills and advantages that players might want.  I think
it likely you could run a campaign for a while on GURPS Lite
and GT.  Then it becomes a question of whether you feel it
covers what you want or you want to shell out few bucks for
more.  By all means give it try....

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 21:42:01 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: AK 111 Ketch

Date sent:      	Sun, 22 Nov 1998 09:26:10
From:           	Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>

>>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
>>Subject: AK 111 class Ketch

>>Features
>> 1 x Decontamination Airlock
>> 1 x Ship's locker (0.05 Td ea.)
>> 1 x Gym (2.5 Td ea.)
>> 1 x 10 Td Fuel Bladder (1 Td ea.)
>> 1 x Ordinary Galley (Cap: 8)

>The galley I could vaguely justify, but a *gym* on a 100 dton freighter ?

Opps! Yes we have no gymnasium. I used the file for the AK100 which does 
have a gym (it spends most of its time in freefall) as a template and forgot to 
delete it. As to the Galley, I've always regarded an ordinary galley as a fridge 
and a microwave stuck in a corner somewere.

>What are you shipping, yuppies ?

Nah, their laptops would out perform the ships computer.

>Ian Whitchurch

>PS As usual, a very cool design

Thank you. My next project should be one for Ditzie. (it involves a 200 Td 
merchant and a large missile bay).

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 21:32:49
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Smuggling

Part of the reason I have been putting the thinking into the more
bureaucratic side of trade in the 3I, is I am thinking of putting together
a G:T campaign for a party in the Small Express Packet business.

These guys do the small packet work across subsectors ... they are the
people who would regularily outrun their paperwork, by going jump-3 with
lots of short cuts.

Therefore, I want to have some thought about what being a fast trader in a
Law Level Two Imperium actually means (I think two is about right for the
Imperium as a whole ... lots of reserve powers, very little black letter
law, and very very little due process).

On the other hand, I dont believe that the Spinward Marches in the 1100s
would be a paperwork free wild frontier (too many bloody Naval types around
for a start ... and if there is a service reknowned for being by-the-book,
it's the Navy). It, like Australia, may have the myth of being a wild
frontier, but the reality would probably be very different.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 02:54:38 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re Teleportation

In mail you write:

> If one stretches this just a bit, to include any form of remote sensing
> (not a big stretch, IMHO), a truly _twisted_ naval architect would still
> psi-shield the bridge, to prevent the enemy from discerning the thoughts
> of the command crew.  Said twisted architect would _also_ psi-shield
> things such as a fuel tank near the bridge, a couple of high-radiation
> areas near the psi-shielded engineering section, and other singularly
> unpleasant places, on the theory that the telepaths would detect the
> psi-shielding, and either:
>
>         a.  Assume that the shielded area is a vital C2 node on the ship (thus
> possibly getting the commando team to teleport to a messy and unpleasant
> death), or
>
>         b.  Assume that the naval architect was a sadistic SOB, who
> psi-shielded a hazardous area deliberately to lure a commando team to a
> messy and unpleasant death.
>
> Either way, you cut down on the teleports onto selected areas of the
> ship.
>
> OTOH, I figure that anyone who tries to teleport from one moving ship
> onto another deserves whatever damage he/she/it takes from differential
> in kinetic energy.... 

The Japanese had no trouble getting volunteers to pilot the Oharu(?)
(aka "Baka") flying bomb. So if the waste of personnel was justifiable,
I can see at least *some* Zhodani teleport commandoes willing to port
into the enemy command ship for the purpose of destroying it.

200 kilos (commando + gear) at several hundred km/sec relative velocity
will do a rather good impression of a nuke (at 100 km/sec I get an
equivalent of 200+ kton).

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 01:15:58 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: General Grant class Bomb Ketch

This is what I think is a interesting departure from the usual high-g ship killer so 
beloved of most designers. Its (hopefully) optimised for planetry bombardment 
duties and has a few 'interesting' features. Obligatory kudos to Mr Akin.

Marshall Ney, General Grant class Bomb Ketch (FF&S v2)
Designed by Andrew Moffatt-Vallance

Statistics
 Tons: 2500 Td (SL Sphere Hypersonic)
 Crew: 55/65
 Cargo: 50 Td (2 Large Cargo Hatches)
 Volume: 35000m3
 Passengers High/Med: 0/0
 Cost: 4745.106 MCr
 Mass (L/C): 103640t/102410t
 Passengers Low: 0
 Maintenance Points: 1713
 Dimensions: 40.6m diameter
 Troops/Science: 0/0
 Tech Level: 11
 Size: 9
 Frozen Watch: 0

Electronics
 Controls: Dynamic, High automation.
           6 x FibComp (CM: 0.4 CP: 2.5). Bridge.
 Communications: 1 x Dir Radio (50,000km, 0.02MW).
                 1 x Laser (1,000AU, 0MW).
 Sensors: 1 x Sci PEMS (12.5 [1.6mkm] Sci, 0MW).
          1 x Sci AEMS (11 [0.16mkm] Sci, 0.5MW).
          1 x Sci LIDAR (14.5 [500kkm] Sci, 1MW).
 Survey/Science:
 ECM: 1 x Radio Jammer (1,000AU, 0.4MW).
      1 x Area. Jammer (11, 312.5MW).
      1 x Decp. Jammer (11, 0.63MW).
      1 x Pas. Jammer (15, 2.5MW).
 Signatures: Vis:-1, IR:0 (0 at 6582MW, -0.5 at 757MW),
             Act:0, Neu:1, Grav:1

Weaponry
 5 x Lt Laser Turret (+3) 1/2-0-0-0 [4,800/7-3-2-1] (LR)
 3 x Missile Bay Auto 16/16 (Mag: 64 MFD: 500,000km)
       w/80 Cmd DL 1d6/3 [113] 21.9G/6 500,000km

Performance
 2 Jump (250 Td/pc fuel)
 2/2 Maneuver (Thruster: 5058MW)
 1/1 Contra-grav (1382MW)
 3429kph/3468kph Atmosphere (Cruise: 2572kph/2601kph)
 6 Power (Fusion: 7570MW, 0.25yr)
 0 Battery
 520.3 Fuel (Scoop: 5, Purif: 168, 2MW)
 0/61/4/0/0 Accomodations (65 x Sanitary Fittings)
 845 Person/Weeks Life Support (Type: Extended, Normal        Food [Stored])
 1 G-Comp
 0 ESA
 0 Sandcasters
 0 Damper Turrets
 0 Damper Screen
 0 Meson Screen
 0 Force Field
 0 Gravtics
 110 [1364] Armor, 22 Structure

Features
 25 x Decontamination Airlock
 1 x Docking Umbilical
 1 x Electronic Shop (6 Td ea.)
 1 x Machine Shop (10 Td ea.)
 1 x Sickbay (8 Td ea.)
 1 x Ship's locker (1.25 Td ea.)
 2 x Gym (2.5 Td ea.)
 1 x Full Galley (Cap: 65)

Small Craft
 6 x Jettison Bay (3 Td)

Backups
 Drives:
 Screens:
 Communications: 1 x Dir Radio (50,000km).
                 3 x Laser (1,000AU).
 Sensors: 4 x Sci PEMS (12.5 [1.6mkm] Sci).
          2 x Sci AEMS (11 [0.16mkm] Sci).
          2 x Sci LIDAR (14.5 [500kkm] Sci).
 Survey/Science:
 ECM: 1 x Area. Jammer (11). 1 x Decp. Jammer (11).
      1 x Pas. Jammer (15).
 Power & Fuel:

Crew Details
 4 x Helm
 37 x Engineering
 5 x Maintenaince
 8 x Gunnery
 9 x Command
 2 x Stewards

An often overlooked portion of the Terran navy during the Interstellar Wars, the 
highly specialised Bomb Ketches were none the less a vital part of the fleet. 
Designed specifically for planetary bombardment duties, two very distinct forms 
of the vessels were produced. The first were the small cheap, mass produced 
designs intended for service as orbital artillery in low threat environments; the 
second were the larger heavily protected designs intended to neutralise enemy 
planetry defences. The General Grant class fell into this second catergory. The 
most notable feature of the design was the heavily protected hull (over 1.1 
meters of crystaliron) with armour that would not disgrace a Ship of the Line. 
Since the vessel was intended to operate in a stable low orbit, little attention 
was paid to maneuverability; however the class featured an extensive ECM 
outfit with particular emphasis on passive jamming and a heavy point defence 
laser battery. The class carried six 3 Td lifeboats, each capable of carring up to 
11 passengers for up to 24 hours (since the class operated mainly in low orbit, 
this was considered sufficent endurance).

The class's offensive armarment was its three missile bays optimised for the 
small (0.25 Td) Raiden missile. The Raiden was a short range high-g missile 
which could be fitted with a wide variety of warheads, including a 500 KT det 
laser, a 12 x 10 KT MIRV, a wide variety of smart deadfall ordinance, chemical 
and biological warheads, and many others. Bomb Ketches remained an 
important part of the Terran Confederation's fleets throughout the Interstellar 
Wars, but they fell out of favour as the Rule of Man adopted Vilani style Strike 
Cruisers for the planetary attack role (though fitted with the newly developed 
meson gun).

One of the most famous examples of the type was the Marshal Ney. During the 
Eigth Interstellar War, the Marshal Ney was one of the flagship of the small 
flotilla of Bomb Ketches that were carried by Admiral Albadawi's jump 3 fleet 
tenders. It was the accurate and effective attacks by the flotilla that enabled 
Aldadawi to reduce Enulsur, Apishlun, Shikashu and Duriim in quick
succession; thereby isolating the Vilani fleet and enabling the Terrans to 
smash open the frontier.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 07:19:38 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Smuggling 

> Therefore, I want to have some thought about what being a fast trader in a
> Law Level Two Imperium actually means (I think two is about right for the
> Imperium as a whole ... lots of reserve powers, very little black letter
> law, and very very little due process).
> 
> On the other hand, I dont believe that the Spinward Marches in the 1100s
> would be a paperwork free wild frontier (too many bloody Naval types around
> for a start ... and if there is a service reknowned for being by-the-book,
> it's the Navy). It, like Australia, may have the myth of being a wild
> frontier, but the reality would probably be very different.

OK, so first piracy is dead and now smuggling is????  Oy, vey.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1176
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Sunday, November 22 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1177



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Re Teleportation
Re: Smuggling
Re: Imperial Presence (was: Harassment Insurance)
Re: uplifting
Re: Starship Economics (Custom Design, GEARHEAD ALERT, LONG POST)
Imperial Calendar Question: Holidays?
Reaver's Deep Adventures...
Assorted TRAVELLER Support Files (MS-Word and MS-Excel)
Re: Imperial Presence (was: Harassment Insurance)
Re: Assorted TRAVELLER Support Files (MS-Word and MS-Excel)
Re: Web page Trademark Disclaimers
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1173
Looking for Sector info
Re: Smuggling
Re: uplifting
Re: Jinxed (was Re: Smuggling)
Re: Imperial Presence (was: Harassment Insurance)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 03:41:59 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Re Teleportation

Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu> wrote


> > Ob Trav: What kind of security systems are used for control spaces 
> > on Trav Ships? IMTU, most imperial designs in the DD have psi 
> > shielding on the bridges to prevent Zhodani Teleporters from taking the bridge directly.

> Thing is, according to CT (at least), "psi-shielding" blocks telepathy
> _only_ -- nothing else.  Teleportation can't be blocked.

IIRC psi shielding in later forms of Traveller blocks both Telepathy and
Calairvoyance.  As I see it Zhodhani Teleporters could _theoretically_
teleport into a psi shielded area but without a clear mental picture of
their destination (which they can't get without Clairvoyance) they may
well end up dead if they try.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 10:52:27 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

At 10:31 PM 21/11/98 +0100, you wrote:
>On Sat, 21 Nov 1998 DustyLV769@aol.com wrote:
>
>>In a message dated 11/20/98 22:30:02 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>>summers@alum.mit.edu writes:
>>
>>	Why do we find it difficult to believe that such a company ( or companies)
>>who specialize in fast info transfer exists?  As I see it, we have the United
>>States Postal Service (owned and operated by you friendly federal goverment),
>>which seems very similar to the X-Boat service... but we also have companies
>>like FedEx or Airborne Ex to speed priority mail around.  Sure it would cost
>>more to have J-6 ships...so you charge more for the premium service.  Lots of
>>people would have uses for this service...including Law Enforcement agencies.
>>
>>DustyLV769
>
>I simply think that the Court wants to keep this available only to themself.
>The x-boat network is kept at a jump-4 level through regulations so that 
>the Court will have an edge through getting the information to and from its
>destination more quickly. This insures that the Court is the first to know, 
>and that the Imperial Megacorp gets that litte edge that keeps it ahead of 
>everybody else.
>
>Tommy Grav

        Hi, Dusty, Tommy!
        You are also forgetting a significant issue:  TL.  You can build and
maintain JP4 X-Boats and Tenders at TL13 (any subsector Captial, no matter
*how* frontier the region), whereas JP6 requires TL15.  So, If the X-Boat
Network is to be as pervasive as is needed, then you can't go JP6, since you
can't maintain the vessels in frontier areas....  The Spinward Marches, for
example, NEED to be in touch with the Core in case the Zho attack again...
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 09:27:57 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Imperial Presence (was: Harassment Insurance)

dberry@hooked.net wrote:
> My Imperium is fairly remote.. worlds have a consulate where the Imperial
> authority is concentrated.  This can be anything from a large office
> tower/park on a subsector capital to a single room office at the downport
> with a "Gone Fishin'" sign hanging on the doorknob.
> 

And the ones with a "Gone Fishin'" sign on the doorknob of that small office
whose broom closet leads to the giant underground complex...

Sorry, saw "Men in Black" again, 'tother day...

One thing to consider, when we start thinking about all the IMOJ agents,
Customs Agenmts, Imperial officials, etc, etc, etc is _how_ many of them are
full-time IMOJ agents, Customs agents, etc, etc. 

How many of these agents are simply local administrators who've gotten yet
_another_ hat to wear?

I'd suspect that the local ruling noble's staff does _all_ of the work for the
imperium, as well as their regular jobs...

So, on paper you have 1 IMOJ agent per 100,000 people, and one Office of
Calendar Compliance, and one Customs liason, and one Imperial Trade
representative, and one overworked bureaucrat doing all of these jobs. 

All of those agencies _will_ have people doing just that one function;
ferinstance, I'd suspect that on most hi-pop worlds in the Marches, there are
sizable IMOJ offices, with lots of agents.  The Marches also have several
active terrorist organizations, lots of other unrest, piracy, etc etc, and the
Navy doesn't do all the civilian law work...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 09:48:56 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: uplifting

Rob Prior wrote:

> Unless said human doen't believe in evolution, and considers any attempt
> to monkey with nature (pun intended) blasphemy.  I know many people who
> _would_ be mortally offended at the idea of uplifting anything, and
> _personally_ offended at doing it to a chimp.
> 
> Anyone who disbelieves me is invited to the First Phillipino Baptist
> Church (Bloor and Bathurst in Toronto) to see this in person. You could
> say "hello" to my ex-fiancee while you were there, too - thisis why we
> broke up.

How do they deal with eating modern farm products, such as corn peas or
potatoes? Any of them own chihuahuas or poodles? Bet on the odd racehorse, eat
chicken, pig or turkey? Have pet goldfish?

Every one of them has been geneered, just the old fashioned way, by
generations of directed crossbreeding.

Is Jeremy Rifkin a high priest of that church?

Dragging it _back_ to Traveller, I find it astonishing that dogs _weren't_
mentioned right away as uplifted species...they've been companion animals with
mankind far, far longer than any other species, and would be a natural
subject, IMHO.

Then again, I look down at my dogs and think "Just as long as they don't give
them _thumbs_!" (Favorite Gary Larson cartoon: Man is reading a note scrawled
in a childish hand-'Bob and me are going for a ride. Stay ! STAY!', as two
laughing dogs drive off in his car...)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 12:56:28 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Starship Economics (Custom Design, GEARHEAD ALERT, LONG POST)

At 06:04 PM 21/11/98, you wrote:

>Just as a question of interest, could you build me a 10 000t jump-2, one
>gee freighter in HG ... put a 50t missile bay and some sandcasters and
>lasers on it (enough to intimidate the crap out of any small pirate), plus
>the best TL11 computer available. See what price it needs to charge to earn
>3% on ship cost per annum.

        Hi again, Ian.  Here is the "Full Meal Deal"(TM) on your ordered
design...
        
        Again, we see that the 1000Cr/ton is not enough to support an armed
merchant.  At this size, we are close.  And this is one *mean* bitch in
Merchant vs Pirate combat....  that missile bay will incinerate anything
smaller than a Merc Cruiser in a couple of shots.  The lasers are pretty
stiff against smaller craft and effecive in the anti-missle role;  the sand
is practically opaque to anything the size of a patrol cruiser or smaller.
The cargo bay is massive....  you can *hangar* 11 sub-merchants in it....
It carries a nice number of passengers, and has enough gunners off-duty at
any one time that a hi-jack is not even an issue.
        But you still can't pay for it.

        Now, if we tinker the numbers to reflect your suggested
750Cr+500Cr/jp, and we tell our captain to only take Jp2 cargoes
(1750cr/ton), then we get a *profit* of 5.7MCr per month, or 68.4MCr per
year (I don't show the calcs below, so just trust me).  That is about,
again, a 2% rate of return under perfect conditions.

- -----Ship Descriptive Paragraph---------

National-Class Bulk Merchant (Type AP)
TL 11.  10,000 tons. 
Using a 10,000-ton hull, the National-Class Bulk Merchant is a bulk merchant
designed to operate in medium-tech, medium threat areas of the Imperium/
Terran Sphere.
It is performance-rated at jump-2, 1-G acceleration and 200EP
Fuel tankage for 2,200 tons supports the power plant and 1 jump-2.  The ship
is fitted with fuel scoops and a purification plant.
Adjacent to the bridge is a computer Model/5Fib.
There are 79 staterooms, 50 standard low berths and 0 emergency low berths and.
The ship has 1 50-ton bay and 8 turrets. The bay is a missile system, there
are 12 beam lasers in 4 turrets organized into 4 batteries.  For defense it
has 12 sand casters in 4 turrets organized into 2 batteries and an agility
of 1.  There is a 60-ton magazine and are no nuclear weapons normally carried.
There is 1 ship's vehicle.  A standard 95-ton shuttle is carried to ferry
cargo and passengers from orbit to planet.
Cargo capacity is 5826.5 tons.
The hull is partially streamlined.
There are 0 tons of waste space.
The National-Class Bulk Merchant requires a crew of 29.  10 Command section,
11 Engineers, 8 Gunners, 7 Stewards, 1 Medic and 3 Flight Section are required.
The Shuttle Pilot operates the shuttle.
The ship costs MCr4479.95, including architects fees and less Class
discounts.   It takes 36 months to build.

- --------Economics Informaton------------
	Financing			
		Total Cost:		4,475.95
		Down Payment:		  895.19	
		Balance Owing:		3,580.76
				
		Monthly Payment:	   14.920MCr for 480 Months

	Operating			
		Refined Fuel		    0.00Cr per month
		Salaries	      118,250.00Cr per month
		Life Support Costs    740,000.00Cr per month
		Anunual Overhaul      372,995.83Cr per month
		Total:		      858,250.00Cr per month
				
	Passengers	
		High	      	      750,000.00Cr per month
		Middle	      	      200,000.00Cr per month
		Low	       	       90,000.00Cr per month
		Total:		    1,040,000.00Cr per month
				
	Misc	
		Mail		       50,000.00Cr per month
				
	Cargo			
		PPT Breakpoint		1,260.46Cr per ton
				
	Revenue 	
		Monthly		   -3,035,083.33Cr
		Yearly		  -36,421,000.00Cr

- ------------Design Data-----------------
SHIP DESIGN WORKSHEET				1.  Date of Preparation		
						
2.  Ship name			3.  Ship Type			4.  Tech Level
Panama			National-Class Bulk Merchant			 11.00 

5.  Hull	Remarks			Tons		MCr		EP	Crew	Factor
Hull		10000					1,000.00			
Configuration	Close Structure		 		(400.00)			4
Armor		 			-   	 	-   			
Waste Space						
	Subtotals	 		-   	 	600.00 			

6.  Drives	Remarks			Tons		MCr		EP	Crew	Factor
Jump Drive		 		  300.00 	1,200.00 		 3.00 	2
Maneuver		 		  200.00 	1,800.00 		 2.00 	1
Power Plant		 		  600.00 	1,800.00 	 200.00	 6.00 	2
Jump Fuel				2,000.00 				
Power Plant Fuel		 	  200.00 				
Excess Fuel						
Special Tanks						
Purification		 		   77.00	    0.37 			
Fuel Scoops						
	Subtotals			3,377.00 	4,800.37 	 200.00 	 11.00 	

7.  Controls	Remarks			Tons		MCr		EP	Crew	Factor
Bridge		 			  200.00 	    1.00 		10	
Aux Bridge						
Computer	12/25	 		   10.00 	   68.00 	(3.00)		E
Aux Computer	0	 		-   	 	-   	 	-   		0
	Subtotals	 		  210.00 	   69.00 	(3.00)	10.00 	

8.  Weaponry	Remarks			Tons		MCr		EP	Crew	Factor
Major Weapon					 	-   	
Bay Repulsor						
Bay Energy						
Bay Particle						
Bay Meson						
Bay Missiles	1 Batt	 	    	   50.00 	  12.00 		 2.00 	 7.00 
Turret Sand	12 Wpns, 4 Turr, 2 Batt	    4.00 	   9.00 		 2.00 	 4.00 
Turret Lasers	12 Wpns, 4 Turr, 4 Batt	    4.00 	  12.00 	 12.00 	 4.00 	 3.00 
Turret Energy						
Turret Particle						
Turret Missiles						
Barbette Particle						
	Subtotals			    58.00 	  33.00 	 12.00 	 8.00 	

9.  Screens	Remarks			Tons		MCr		EP	Crew	Factor
Meson Screen		 		-   	 	-   	 	-   	 -   	0
Nuclear Damper		 		-   	 	-   	 	-   	 -   	0
Force Field		 		-   	 	-   		-   	 - 	0
Deflector Screen			-   	 	-   		-   	 - 	0
	Subtotals	 		-   	 	-   	 	-   	 -   	

11.  Facilities	Remarks			Tons		MCr			Crew	
Small Craft Hangars		 	   123.50 	   0.25 			
Big Craft Hangars			-   			
Launch Facilities						
Launch Tubes			 	-   		-   	
Vehicles						
	Subtotals	 		   123.50 	   0.25 		 -   	

Crew Lists				Officers	Crew			
Command Section				7		3			
Engineering				3		8			
Gunnery					3		5			
Flight Section				2		1			
Ship's Troops						
Service Crew	(Stewards, Medics)	2		6			
Passengers				50				
	Subtotals			68		23			

12.  Quarters				Tons		MCr			Crew	
Single Staterooms	 68 	 	  270.00 	  33.75 		68	
Double Staterooms	 11 	 	  45.00 	   5.63 		23	
Low Berths	 	 50 	 	  25.00 	   2.50 		50	
Emergency Low		 -   	 	  -   		   0	
	Subtotals	 		 340.00 	  41.88 		140	

13.  Cargo	Remarks			Tons				
Cargo				       5,826.50 				
Mail		 			   5.00 				
Magazine	300 Missile, 300 Sand	  60.00 				
				       5,891.50 				

14.  Totals	Remarks			Tons		MCr		EP	Crew	
Hull					0.00	         600.00 		 0	
Drives				     3377.00	       4,800.37 	200.00 	11	
Controls			      210.00	 	  69.00 	  (3.00)10	
Weapons				       58.00	 	  33.00 	 (12.00) 8	
Screens					0.00	 	   -   	 	  -   	 0	
Facilities			      123.50	 	   0.25 		 0	
Quarters			      340.00	 	  41.88 			
Cargo				     5891.50				
	Subtotals		    10000.00		5544.50		191.0	29	
Architect's Fees				          55.44			
Discounts					       -1119.99				Agility
Totals				    10000.00		4479.95		191.0	29	  1.9

15.  Notes						
	1 Shuttle Carried aboard.
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 11:07:24 -0700
From: Sanders <timmon@primenet.com>
Subject: Imperial Calendar Question: Holidays?

I'm getting ready to do the layout on the Imperial Calendar, and I was
wondering if anyone knows if there are any specific Imperial Holidays
mentioned in canon? 

For instance - is there a holiday celebrating the Emperor's birthday?
His/Her ascension to the throne? Holiday's commemorating the Veterans of
the Frontier Wars?  A holiday celebrating the Founding of the Imperium (at
a guess, I'd say it would be celebrated on Day 1), etc.?

Any comments, suggestions, or canon ref's appreciated.

Thanks,
Paul

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 11:10:43 -0700
From: Sanders <timmon@primenet.com>
Subject: Reaver's Deep Adventures...

Is there anyone on the list interested in writing a folio-sized adventure
for inclusion in the Reaver's Deep Sourcebook? If so, contact me off of the
list and we can discuss it further.

Thanks,
Paul

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 14:23:01 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Assorted TRAVELLER Support Files (MS-Word and MS-Excel)

        If you downloaded a copy of these files from my website, I
discovered a mistake in the HighGaurd sheet concerning the calculation of
gunners required.  The fix has been posted to my site and is available for
download....  Current version of the ZIP archive is "Version 11981122".
        Sorry for any inconvenience.
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 19:35:43 +0100 (MET)
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
Subject: Re: Imperial Presence (was: Harassment Insurance)

On Sun, 22 Nov 1998, Bruce Johnson wrote:
>One thing to consider, when we start thinking about all the IMOJ agents,
>Customs Agenmts, Imperial officials, etc, etc, etc is _how_ many of them are
>full-time IMOJ agents, Customs agents, etc, etc. 
>How many of these agents are simply local administrators who've gotten yet
>_another_ hat to wear?

This is propably one of the reasons interstellar empires fall after a time.
The local burecrates get fed up with doing the jobs while the nobles gets
all the fun. Sooner or later they start neglecting their "imperial duties"
and concentrate on the local work, that really "mean" something.

>I'd suspect that the local ruling noble's staff does _all_ of the work for the
>imperium, as well as their regular jobs...

I also think that younger Imperial Nobles get assigned to to certain liasion
duties to local high level ruling nobles. I suspect that quite a few of these
neglect work and become a burden for the locals.

>So, on paper you have 1 IMOJ agent per 100,000 people, and one Office of
>Calendar Compliance, and one Customs liason, and one Imperial Trade
>representative, and one overworked bureaucrat doing all of these jobs. 

And he most propably has several local duties also. And as he is a local
boy, he'll soon realize that it is easier to climb the local ladder of 
power that the Imperial one, and start concentrating on these functions.
That means that the good bureacrates will get better jobs in local agencies
while the Imperial positions whil be filled with lesser able workers. Maybe
this gives the pirates and smugglers an easier time in fooling or paying of
these agents.

>All of those agencies _will_ have people doing just that one function;
>ferinstance, I'd suspect that on most hi-pop worlds in the Marches, there are
>sizable IMOJ offices, with lots of agents.  The Marches also have several
>active terrorist organizations, lots of other unrest, piracy, etc etc, and the
>Navy doesn't do all the civilian law work...

Tommy Grav
- -------------------------------------------------------------
tommy.grav@astro.uio.no     http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/  
Institute of Astrophysics, UiO, No  
IMTU tn++t4+tg+ ru+ge++ !3i jt+au+st+ls hi++dr-so++zh-sy-sw++ 
 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 13:29:09 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: Assorted TRAVELLER Support Files (MS-Word and MS-Excel)

- -----Original Message-----
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Cc: dmckinne@itds.com <dmckinne@itds.com>; thomharr@mediaone.net
<thomharr@mediaone.net>; rboleyn@clear.net.nz <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Date: Sunday, November 22, 1998 1:31 PM
Subject: Assorted TRAVELLER Support Files (MS-Word and MS-Excel)


>        If you downloaded a copy of these files from my website, I
>discovered a mistake in the HighGaurd sheet concerning the calculation of
>gunners required.  The fix has been posted to my site and is available for
>download....  Current version of the ZIP archive is "Version 11981122".
>        Sorry for any inconvenience.
> -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
> Michel R. Vaillancourt
> misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
>


Michael

Is there any possibility of saving the SS in Excell 5 format, for those of
us update defficient?

Thanks

Mike Peters, Letterworks@CITnet.com
webpage:"Jump Point" http://users.citnet.com/Letterworks/
"For my part, I travel not to go anywhere, but to go. I travel for travel's
sake. The great affair is to move."
Robert Louis Stevenson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 12:28:11 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Web page Trademark Disclaimers

At 12:47 PM 11/22/98 +1300, you wrote:
>I've been updating my web site, and it has occured to me that some of the
>legal blurb that I got from IG:
>
>Traveller is a registered trademark of Far Future Enterprises.
>Portions of this material are Copyright ©1977-1996 Imperium Games, Inc.
>
>probably don't really apply now. Could someone in the know please inform me
>as to a better note for my site?

Since Marc is still Far Future Enterprises, I'm just going to leave them as
is for now.
- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 13:49:29 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1173

>From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@itds.com>
...
>Well, as far as I'm aware, there was never a definitive answer as to 
>how FFW related to HG.

  It doesn't really, beyond the extent of rough TL of forces and the budget
that goes into building a stat x-y-z squadron. Very abstract compared to HG.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 15:49:15 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Looking for Sector info

Hi,

I'm looking for information on the following sectors, Aldebaran, Neworld,
Hanstone, Malorn, and Hadji. If any one has any information, especially in
Galactic format, I'd be grateful if you'd contact me at the email address in
the sig.

Thanks

Mike Peters, Letterworks@CITnet.com
webpage:"Jump Point" http://users.citnet.com/Letterworks/
"For my part, I travel not to go anywhere, but to go. I travel for travel's
sake. The great affair is to move."
Robert Louis Stevenson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 07:27:43
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

>From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
>Subject: Re: Smuggling 
>
>> On the other hand, I dont believe that the Spinward Marches in the 1100s
>> would be a paperwork free wild frontier (too many bloody Naval types around
>> for a start ... and if there is a service reknowned for being by-the-book,
>> it's the Navy). It, like Australia, may have the myth of being a wild
>> frontier, but the reality would probably be very different.
>
>OK, so first piracy is dead and now smuggling is????  Oy, vey.

Keven, we argued this out for 15 bloody months. Piracy is *not* dead.
Routine piracy *around mainworlds* tends to make pirates dead, and is
insanely difficult to make money doing.

Big difference. Especially if you are a friend or a relative of an asteroid
miner who died after a raid, when the nearest SDB was 7 hours travel away.

Secondly, if you have no customs or paperwork in Imperial Space, then there
is, by definition, no smuggling, except across the extrality fences.

Now, we know at least two commodities that are illegal in imperial space -
nukes and slaves. Nukes are easy ... ask 'Any fissionables ?', then wave a
damper over the ship from a safe distance. They probably dont do it twice,
if conservation of energy applies.

Slaves are more difficult, especially if they are of the 'bonded immigrant'
sort. I can see densitometers used on cargo containers.

Now, if the Imperium is serious about stopping piracy, then we get the
whole vexed question of whether the Imperium would try and track stolen
cargos. I think it would depend on whether or not piracy was perceived as
being more of a problem than usual.

If Sufficiently Important People think it is, then we get cargos tracked,
backtracked and so on.

If not, then business as usual.

Of course, if the Imperium makes certain drugs illegal, then we can toss
all that logic out the window. Me, I say they dont care.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 10:37:26 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: uplifting

Sat, 21 Nov 1998 11:32:25 -0500, Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
>><< The are sensitive to insults, but why should they consider it an
>> insult.  Even a touchy human wouldn't consider uplifting a
>> chimp to be an insult to him (why should it, he isn't a chimp).
>> Neither is a Vargr a dog who is going to care what someone
>> does to s a dog.

>Unless said human doen't believe in evolution, and considers any attempt
>to monkey with nature (pun intended) blasphemy.  I know many people who
>_would_ be mortally offended at the idea of uplifting anything, and
>_personally_ offended at doing it to a chimp.

But then how would they feel about an uplifted dog?  In any case,
we can agree there is not more reason for Vargr to be insulted
by uplifted dogs than there is for a human to be insulted by
uplifted monkeys?

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 10:43:22 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Jinxed (was Re: Smuggling)

Sat, 21 Nov 1998 15:24:57 -0800, "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>

>While this is cute, I happen not to like Jinxed, for the simple reason that
>one player gets extra points for penalizing the other players (who are not
>consulted on the matter).  The same is true of Weirdness Magnet - which is
>also redundant with the zero-point advantage/disadvantage, "Player Character."

I have allways disallowed the Jinxed disad for that reason.
However, I have no problem with Weirdness Magnet (except
it is too silly for me :-).  The brunt of the problems
fall on the character that took it and the rest only take
fallout (which is fine by me).

In any case, taking Unlucky would fit better (the fact that
it manefests as problems with ship papers is a special effect
that doesn't affect the point cost).

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 17:44:27 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Imperial Presence (was: Harassment Insurance)

At 09:27 AM 22/11/98 -0700, you wrote:
>dberry@hooked.net wrote:
>> My Imperium is fairly remote.. worlds have a consulate where the Imperial
>> authority is concentrated.  This can be anything from a large office
>> tower/park on a subsector capital to a single room office at the downport
>> with a "Gone Fishin'" sign hanging on the doorknob.
>> 
>
>And the ones with a "Gone Fishin'" sign on the doorknob of that small office
>whose broom closet leads to the giant underground complex...
>
>Sorry, saw "Men in Black" again, 'tother day...
>
>One thing to consider, when we start thinking about all the IMOJ agents,
>Customs Agenmts, Imperial officials, etc, etc, etc is _how_ many of them are
>full-time IMOJ agents, Customs agents, etc, etc. 
>
>How many of these agents are simply local administrators who've gotten yet
>_another_ hat to wear?
>
>I'd suspect that the local ruling noble's staff does _all_ of the work for the
>imperium, as well as their regular jobs...
>
>So, on paper you have 1 IMOJ agent per 100,000 people, and one Office of
>Calendar Compliance, and one Customs liason, and one Imperial Trade
>representative, and one overworked bureaucrat doing all of these jobs. 
>
>All of those agencies _will_ have people doing just that one function;
>ferinstance, I'd suspect that on most hi-pop worlds in the Marches, there are
>sizable IMOJ offices, with lots of agents.  The Marches also have several
>active terrorist organizations, lots of other unrest, piracy, etc etc, and the
>Navy doesn't do all the civilian law work...
>
        IMTU, UN Staff available at any given starport/ planetary capital is
given by the following:

        Starport   Staff Mult
            A           12
            B           8
            C           6
            D           4
            E           2
            X           1

        Square the Pop UPP factor and multiply that by the table above and
1d/3.  So, a class A starport, Pop A, roll of 6, you've got 3600 civillian
employees handling UN affairs on that planet.  Everything thing else is the
local world government's problem.  Every subsector has a facility of twice
that many civillian beauraucratic employees on a world that handles the over
all subsector's affairs.
        Of course, this doesn't involve military affairs or diplomatic affairs.
        Obviously, if there aren't enough bodies, then divide jobs by people
and it'll tell you how many hats any one person is wearing.
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1177
***********************************

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Traveller-digest     Sunday, November 22 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1178



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Starship Economics
Re: uplifting
Re: uplifting
Re: National Class Armed Freighter
[none]
Jump-6 courier networks (Was: Smuggling)
[none]
Re: Assorted TRAVELLER Support Files (MS-Word and MS-Excel)
Re: National Class Armed Freighter
Re: Assorted TRAVELLER Support Files (MS-Word and MS-Excel)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 17:36:32 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Starship Economics

At 06:04 PM 21/11/98, you wrote:
>High Guard doesnt tend to deal with small civilian vessels terrifically
>well. It assumes ships are built to military specifications, and you have
>the 20t minimum size for bridges.
>
>Try plugging in a CT book 2 power plant in, and see what that does to the
>operating profile.

        Hi, Ian!
        So, for EP, "pretend" it is a HG powerplant and derive energy
production normally?
        I agree with your HG observation.  The problem is when you get
"civillian" ships alongside "military" ships;  protected convoys under
attack by raiders.  Since they operate under different design rules (CT:
missle does 1d hits;  HG: one hit only), it gets strange resolving these
situations.  So, I figure it is easier to tinker with the "break-even"
numbers for commerce than it does to try and balance the differences in ship
design.
        Particularly where commerce between systems doesn't seem to give a
damn what the shipping costs are.  Unlike, lets say, the V2 rules for TSR's
"Star Frontiers" where they had rules to model the ebb and flow of trade at
the Imperium scale.

>You might also take the maneuver drive to one gee (again, use one out of CT
>book 2), and install some contragravity units out of Striker to help you
>get out of deep gravity wells.

        One of these days I am gonna have to read Striker.  I haven't
bothered (even though I own it), since its never been applicable to anything
my players have done.  Of course, now that I have an interstellar war
looming on the horizon, maybe I'll have an excuse.

>If it is fully streamlined, I think you could put a good argument up that
>it should be able to make winged takeoffs from big worlds, even at (say)
>1.1 gees.

        Nope.  The "Wilds" class Frontier Merchant that we've been
discussing is a "Close Structure" hull design to cut down on hull costs.
However, good point for furture designs!

>>        At 1000Cr/ton frieght, it looses 10MCr per year.  The "Price Per
>>Ton" breakpoint (costs / revenue tons *2) is 4500Cr.  If I ramp the TL up to
>>15 (big drop in powerplant size and costs, giving boost in cargo space), the
>>PPT breakpoint drops to a mere 2825Cr per ton per jump;  however, it still
>>looses MCr7.4 per year.
>
>My rule of thumb for freight rates is Cr 750 plus Cr 500 per parsec. A
>jump-3 freighter should be able to ask for Cr 1750 a dton, plus risk premiums.
>
>Risk premiums should be pretty severe, given all those pirates.

        I think this is how I will start doing things IMTU.  I can even base
the "risk premiums" on the area:  Core Worlds = 1x, Established Worlds =
1.5x, Frontier Worlds = 2x, Beyond Frontier = 2.5x.  
        >>>Insert Starving Colony Here<<<

>Now, lets assume you are shipping ... High Guard power plants for 200 t Far
>Traders. Buy em at Industrial worlds, ship em to non-industrial worlds with
>type A and B starports. Now, assuming we buy them at 90% of book value at
>the industrial source world, and sell them at book value at the
>destination, how far can we ship them at Cr 5000 a jump-3 ?

        Yep...  Buckets of Cash.

>>        I suppose the answer is to ignore peril, strip all the weapons off,
>>cut the range to 1jp1, speed to 1g (ignore landing on big planets) and hope
>>alot.  I'll cut the computer down, too...  it was a 2bis....  I still don't
>>think that'd get me to a PPT Cr1000...  Hang on...  Well, I'll be damned...
>>PPT is Cr483.
>>        So, it is TL15 540t 1-g, 1jp1 pp-1, Model/1 computer, 10 passengers
>>and 336.5dt cargo, no weapons or defenses.
>>        At TL10. same stats except cargo degraded to 326t, PPT is Cr632
>>(makes MCr2.9/year).
>>
>
>Note that at 5 TLs worse, your breakeven point is only about 40% higher for
>a 1 gee, jump-1 ship. Compare this to how much more inefficient a warship
>is at TL10 vis a vis TL 15.

        Yeah, I noticed that too.  Fighting ships suffer alot with TL, but
merchants and liners don't really.  Of course, that 40% can look like a Rift
when you're trying to make a starship payment.

>>        Ok, so to have a frieghter make money, you just have to either make
>>a killing at speculative, or stick to patrolled areas within a jump-1 of
>>each other, regardless of TL.  That *somehow*, IMHO, sounds contrary to the
>>spirit of the game.
>
>Or take the completely and absolutely stuffed Cr 1000 per jump freight
>rates and drop them off a bridge somewhere in Jersey. If a jump-1 costs Cr
>1000, then a jump-2 should cost more, right ? The fixed freight rules are
>the equivalent of requiring all knights in the Imperium to ride horses in
>combat.

        Agreed.  See above comments.

>Oh, and sticking to patrolled areas isnt absolutely neccessary. Triple
>sandcasters and triple missile turrets only take up hardpoints and space,
>and dont chew up expensive power.

        Yah, but you have to buy reloads, take up space for magazine, have
1/4 of your mountings reloading at any one time in combat and <Pick Diety,
Allah - Zeus, inclusive) help you if you run out of ammo.  Lasers will keep
firing every round right up to the point where the powerplant goes offline,
at which point you'd loose your missiles too.

>>>Applying the Striker currency exchange rates to commercial starships pushes
>>>this down further, because TL9-12 starships develop a much lower 'sticker
>>>cost'. Check out Andrew Vallance's TL11 freighters for examples of designs
>>>that will quite happily exist in a TL15 Imperium.
>>
>>        Oooooooo.  I *like* this idea;  so a TL 10 ship in a TL15 game is
>>cheap like borsch, nyet?  Which means it is easier to maintain, pay for,
>>etc.  I think this is a common-sense addition to MTU.
>>
>
>It has *huge* implications. Really, really, big implications. No more
>hi-tech freighters - they are too expensive. Lots of low-tech traders from
>the boondocks, shipping people and goods for handfuls of Imperial credits.

        Yepper!  It makes the "40-year old" merchant ship believeable,
particularly in a technologically growing TU, such as mine.  Max TL for the
Core is 11, but by the end of a 100-year war, the Core will be TL 15.  That
means a state-of-the-art Core Merchant is going to be a Frontier TL vessel
by the end of the payments.

>Oh, and under HG combat rules, figure out what a captain with Ship
>Tactics-4 is worth ... and then figure what she could ask for, and get, as
>an annual salary.

        Again, I *like*....  


>Just as a question of interest, could you build me a 10 000t jump-2, one
>gee freighter in HG ... put a 50t missile bay and some sandcasters and
>lasers on it (enough to intimidate the crap out of any small pirate), plus
>the best TL11 computer available. See what price it needs to charge to earn
>3% on ship cost per annum.
>

        Done!  See a previous, murderously long post.  Took me about an
hour, all total.

>>        Sorry for the length of this post, but you caught me in an
>>experimentive mood.  I guess the question is this:  is a 2% rate of return
>>under perfect conditions enough to make someone want to spend MCr160?
>
>Well, you have to remember that the US stock market is in the midst of a
>massive speculative bubble right now. 9% per annum rises in stock prices
>are *not* normal. There have been large chunks of history where investors
>would have been happy to get 2%.
>

        Yeah, but I've heard a lot of financial analysts indicating that at
the rate the world is developing, the "first world" nations' economies are
going to be running hot for a while.  Postulate that you have planets that
you can export an entire world's worth of grain consumption too (starting
colony, hi-pop worlds, etc) and I don't see that slowing much below 5% on a
much lower risk money environment.

        Thanks very much, Ian.  I am really enjoying this thread.  Nice to
chat with someone online who can debate/ discuss a point rationally for an
ongoing period of time.
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 17:13:25 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: uplifting

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> writes:
>> Unless said human doen't believe in evolution, and considers any attempt
>> to monkey with nature (pun intended) blasphemy.  I know many people who
>> _would_ be mortally offended at the idea of uplifting anything, and
>> _personally_ offended at doing it to a chimp.
>> 
>> Anyone who disbelieves me is invited to the First Phillipino Baptist
>> Church (Bloor and Bathurst in Toronto) to see this in person. You could
>> say "hello" to my ex-fiancee while you were there, too - thisis why we
>> broke up.
>
>How do they deal with eating modern farm products, such as corn peas or
>potatoes? Any of them own chihuahuas or poodles? Bet on the odd
>racehorse, eat
>chicken, pig or turkey? Have pet goldfish?

They deal with it by ignoring the contradictions. Anything they remember
from childhood falls into  the catagory of "things have always been this
way". Some will even talk for hours of the "evils of science", pausing
only to take their medicine (such as anti-biotics)! Not an attitude
limited to Phillipino Baptists, either.

It was my first encounter with people who actively scorned logic. I was
astounded.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 17:16:24 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: uplifting

>>Unless said human doen't believe in evolution, and considers any attempt
>>to monkey with nature (pun intended) blasphemy.  I know many people who
>>_would_ be mortally offended at the idea of uplifting anything, and
>>_personally_ offended at doing it to a chimp.
>
>But then how would they feel about an uplifted dog?  In any case,
>we can agree there is not more reason for Vargr to be insulted
>by uplifted dogs than there is for a human to be insulted by
>uplifted monkeys?

Yup, we can agree. Just remember that some sapients _will_ be offended.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 08:12:30
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: National Class Armed Freighter

>From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
>Subject: Re: Starship Economics (Custom Design, GEARHEAD ALERT, LONG POST)
>
>At 06:04 PM 21/11/98, you wrote:
>
>        Hi again, Ian.  Here is the "Full Meal Deal"(TM) on your ordered
>design...
>        
>        Again, we see that the 1000Cr/ton is not enough to support an armed
>merchant.  At this size, we are close.  And this is one *mean* bitch in
>Merchant vs Pirate combat....  that missile bay will incinerate anything
>smaller than a Merc Cruiser in a couple of shots.  The lasers are pretty
>stiff against smaller craft and effecive in the anti-missle role;  the sand
>is practically opaque to anything the size of a patrol cruiser or smaller.
>The cargo bay is massive....  you can *hangar* 11 sub-merchants in it....
>It carries a nice number of passengers, and has enough gunners off-duty at
>any one time that a hi-jack is not even an issue.
>        But you still can't pay for it.
>
>        Now, if we tinker the numbers to reflect your suggested
>750Cr+500Cr/jp, and we tell our captain to only take Jp2 cargoes
>(1750cr/ton), then we get a *profit* of 5.7MCr per month, or 68.4MCr per
>year (I don't show the calcs below, so just trust me).  That is about,
>again, a 2% rate of return under perfect conditions.
>

*making time-out signals* there is a typo of mine in there. Cargos should
earn Cr 250 + Cr 500 per jump ... plus risk premiums.

Now, we have a ship that can incinerate most anything smaller than a
destroyer, and it can give a destroyer a couple of nervous moments. Hell,
you could militarise it, stick in another 400 staterooms, and carry an
entire Imperial Marine battallion ...

Now, as a customer, is this level of security worth paying extra for ?

My answer is a definite 'maybe'. Some destinations and some cargos will
make it worthwhile.

Remember, this is a TL11 design ... if you are operating in a higher tech
Imperium, buying it with soft currency and getting paid in hard currency,
then it starts to become more and more economically viable, even without
risk premiums.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 13:19:33 +0100
From: Jesus <324064@cienz.unizar.es>
Subject: [none]

subscribe traveller-digest
unsubscribe traveller

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 23:48:51 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Jump-6 courier networks (Was: Smuggling)

Tommy Grav writes:
>On Sat, 21 Nov 1998 DustyLV769@aol.com wrote:
> 
>>Why do we find it difficult to believe that such a company ( or companies)
>>who specialize in fast info transfer exists?  As I see it, we have the United
>>States Postal Service (owned and operated by you friendly federal goverment),
>>which seems very similar to the X-Boat service... but we also have companies
>>like FedEx or Airborne Ex to speed priority mail around.  Sure it would cost
>>more to have J-6 ships...so you charge more for the premium service.  Lots of
>>people would have uses for this service...including Law Enforcement agencies.
> 
>I simply think that the Court wants to keep this available only to themself.

And you have that neat little MT story about how Norris took advantage of
being the only one who knew to make himself Arch-duke to support that.
Unfortunately that story was one of those ideas that sounds great until
you give it a closer look. Then it starts leaking like a sieve.

>The x-boat network is kept at a jump-4 level through regulations so that 
>the Court will have an edge through getting the information to and from its
>destination more quickly.

The real meta-reason why the X-boat network is only jump-4 is that you
couldn't make a 100 T jump-6 courier with the original High Guard ship
construction rules (I forget if it was possible with Book 2; I don't think
so). Indeed, the TAS newsbriefs that tells of the newfangled drop tanks
also mention that plans were being made to upgrade the X-boat network to
jump-6, at least along the major links, using drop tanks.

Nowadays, after the mandatory 20 T bridge is no longer mandatory, it is
possible to make jump-6 X-boats. So another reason was needed. But "the 
Imperium wants to keep the capability to itself" dosen't cut it. Jump-6
ships are _potentially_ available to far too many people with both the
funds and the desire for quick information. (My own preferred explanation
that jump-4 was the highest possible jump when the X-boat system was put
into place, and the X-boat manufacturers lobby has labored mightily to
keep the Imperium from upgrading. But I also think that a lot of different
organisations have their own private courier network.)  

>This insures that the Court is the first to know, and that the Imperial
>Megacorp gets that litte edge that keeps it ahead of everybody else.

First, that's 16 different organisations right there: The Imperial
Bureaucracy, the Imperial Navy (both canonical), and 14 Megacorporate
networks. The megacorporations are not the same as the Court, you know. Add
to that all the high-tech, high-population worlds that like to get their
news fresh and you have another I-don't-know-how-many private networks. And
then, of course, precisely because advance information is so valuable in a
commercial sense, I believe that the sector-wide companies would have to set
up networks of their own in sheer self-defense. And the sub-sector wide
companies would propably club together to set up their own network. Then
there are the sector-wide news networks and TAS, both IMO both willing and
able to pay for a courier network of their own.

And a general comment about the X-boat network. It looks to me like it was
generated using random dierolls and that table in Book 3. It certainly
wasn't reality-checked. If the question about communication time really
was so serious as the Library Data claims, a much better setup would IMO
be in use. IMTU the sector captials are tied together by direct lines that
go by the most direct route and subsidiary networks carry the news to and
from subsector capital and other major worlds. Those doglegs that make
some major worlds less than 6 parsecs from each other three or four jumps
apart by X-boat just don't exist IMTU.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 14:35:28 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: [none]

>- ---Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz> wrote:
>>
>> Hello, I'm back after a several month break, so "Hi" to you all.
>
>Hi.  I'm new, so you don't know me.  I'm not new to Traveller, though.
> I'm a rabbid CT fanatic.

Cool... I'm an MT Nut.

>
>I have been trying to find out what the deal is with that Alternity
>thing.  I even joined a little on-line club of fans, but they seemed
>pretty boring.  I saw the books at a book store, but didn't have a
>chance to look it over.  My real question is should I farm the players
>of that game for Traveller converts or are they just a bunch of
>wild-eyed little snotgobblers to be ignored?  (Sorry, haven't had my
>shot today).
>
The system mechanics aren't that bad... (It is somewhat cinematic, but not
unplayable.) Haven't seen too many munchkins get interested in it, but
mostly old D&D'ers who are looking for something to replace Star Frontiers.

It is an easy to learn, easy to run, well written, beatifully illustrated
system. (IMHO, it made T4 look like something that feell out of a horse)

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:aramis@gci.net> Note: All other E-mail addresses for me expire by
the end of november 1998!
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
UTUP 0309 6-7779577-5-5-2
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 20:17:36 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Assorted TRAVELLER Support Files (MS-Word and MS-Excel)

At 01:29 PM 22/11/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
>Date: Sunday, November 22, 1998 1:31 PM
>Subject: Assorted TRAVELLER Support Files (MS-Word and MS-Excel)
>
>
>>        If you downloaded a copy of these files from my website, I
>>discovered a mistake in the HighGaurd sheet concerning the calculation of
>>gunners required.  The fix has been posted to my site and is available for
>>download....  Current version of the ZIP archive is "Version 11981122".
>>        Sorry for any inconvenience.

>Michael
>
>Is there any possibility of saving the SS in Excell 5 format, for those of
>us update defficient?
>
>Thanks
>
>Mike Peters, Letterworks@CITnet.com

        Hi, Mike!
        Sure...  I'll e-mail it to you directly and spare the list the
deluge.  Anyone else needing pre-'97 versions can just e-mail me as well.
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 19:49:11 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: National Class Armed Freighter

At 08:12 AM 23/11/98, you wrote:
>>
>>        Now, if we tinker the numbers to reflect your suggested
>>750Cr+500Cr/jp, and we tell our captain to only take Jp2 cargoes
>>(1750cr/ton), then we get a *profit* of 5.7MCr per month, or 68.4MCr per
>>year (I don't show the calcs below, so just trust me).  That is about,
>>again, a 2% rate of return under perfect conditions.
>>
>*making time-out signals* there is a typo of mine in there. Cargos should
>earn Cr 250 + Cr 500 per jump ... plus risk premiums.
>
        Hi, Ian!
        Nope, it doesn't work....  JP2 cargoes only earn Cr1250/ ton,
meaning you loose KCr121 per month, or MCr1.46/year.  Cr750 + Cr500/jump is
a healthier balancing number for low tech ships.

>Now, we have a ship that can incinerate most anything smaller than a
>destroyer, and it can give a destroyer a couple of nervous moments. Hell,
>you could militarise it, stick in another 400 staterooms, and carry an
>entire Imperial Marine battallion ...
>
>Now, as a customer, is this level of security worth paying extra for ?
>
>My answer is a definite 'maybe'. Some destinations and some cargos will
>make it worthwhile.

        I agree.  The problem is that our PPT calculations at Cr750 +
Cr500/jump call for *perfect* conditions *every* trip.  One brawl that you
have to do significant repairs, even if you obliterate the corsair and his
two foolhardy associates, and you are in the red for the year.

>Remember, this is a TL11 design ... if you are operating in a higher tech
>Imperium, buying it with soft currency and getting paid in hard currency,
>then it starts to become more and more economically viable, even without
>risk premiums.

        At (Cr250 + Cr500 /jump) /ton, with risk premiums as I suggested for
MTU, this ship would have to operate almost exclusively in the Frontier to
make solid profits.  Paradoxically, this also means it runs greater risk of
taking expensive damage.  Again, YMMV, since I don't know how dangerous YTU
is.  In the Frontier, there is a 3/12 chance of a Corsair or Privateer at a
"B" class starport....  it gets somewhat worse at lesser ports.
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 20:29:21 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Assorted TRAVELLER Support Files (MS-Word and MS-Excel)

- --=====================_911795361==_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 01:29 PM 22/11/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Michael
>
>Is there any possibility of saving the SS in Excell 5 format, for those of
>us update defficient?
>
>Thanks
>
>Mike Peters, Letterworks@CITnet.com

        Hi, Mike!
        Here they all are, ZIP'ed as either MS Word95 or MS Excel95.  Have
fun, and I hope you enjoy them.

- --=====================_911795361==_
Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="traveller-ss-v95.zip";
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="traveller-ss-v95.zip"

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- --=====================_911795361==_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

- --=====================_911795361==_--

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1178
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Monday, November 23 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1179



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Smuggling
Traveller: System Generation for Windows
Stupid Operator Tricks
Re : Smuggling
re: Starship Economics
re: Starship Economics
Re: Re : Smuggling
re: Jump-6 Courier Networks
re: Teleportation
Re: Alternity
Re: Jump-6 courier networks (Was: Smuggling)
New CC2 Deckplan Available
Re: Teleportation
Traveller Languages
Re: Stupid Operator Tricks
Re: Smuggling
Re: .22 cal.
Re: Shivva Bridge / Fighters / Jump Drives
A federal Imperium? (was Re: First Contact...)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 21:00:57 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

At 07:27 AM 23/11/98, you wrote:

>Keven, we argued this out for 15 bloody months. Piracy is *not* dead.
>Routine piracy *around mainworlds* tends to make pirates dead, and is
>insanely difficult to make money doing.

        Hi, Ian!
        I agree...  IMTU, the Core of the Terran Sphere is a death trap for
Pirates.  The UN believes in Q-Ships.

>Now, we know at least two commodities that are illegal in imperial space -
>nukes and slaves. Nukes are easy ... ask 'Any fissionables ?', then wave a
>damper over the ship from a safe distance. They probably dont do it twice,
>if conservation of energy applies.

        ROTFL!

>Now, if the Imperium is serious about stopping piracy, then we get the
>whole vexed question of whether the Imperium would try and track stolen
>cargos. I think it would depend on whether or not piracy was perceived as
>being more of a problem than usual.
>
>If Sufficiently Important People think it is, then we get cargos tracked,
>backtracked and so on.
>
>If not, then business as usual.
>

        IMTU, I assign a given ship "Noteriety" based on kills and how
surviors report they were treated.  I'll spare y'all the tables, but suffice
to say that it is sufficiently difficult to hunt down a single ship that it
can be some time before the UN-DSN tasks ships to start searching the area a
given Corsair operates in with SAND orders.
        Of course, when they *do* issue that order, that Corsair is in a
whole *lot* of trouble.  And it serves to remind the others that "Crime Does
Not Pay For Long".

>Of course, if the Imperium makes certain drugs illegal, then we can toss
>all that logic out the window. Me, I say they dont care.
>
        I define "smuggling" IMTU, as "the attempt to circumvent or avoid
lawful application of customs prohibitions and excise duties on a delivered
cargo".  Thus, simply trying to get a load of ATV's onto a planet without
paying the customs fees (Planetary Law UWP - 1d = %cargo value fee, min 1%;
Luxury items +2% (Liquor, recreational drugs, artwork, etc.), Medical Items
- -2%) constitues smuggling under UN Law.
        IYTU, YMMV.

        Regards,
                Michel
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 20:01:07 EST
From: Noctifer@aol.com
Subject: Traveller: System Generation for Windows

Hiya...

I was on this list a _long_ time ago (internet-wise), but had to leave when I
stopped working on my own sci-fi game.  Well, i've returned to working on that
game and I'm currently working on making some systems for it.  I've found
Traveller, specifically TNE, to be one of the best systems out there and,
instead of re-inventing the wheel, have decided to use it in creating my own
systems.

The problem is that I don't have the time to make all the rolls and record the
information.  I was hoping to find a System Generator on the web somewhere,
but the only ones I can find are DOS based.  Does anyone out there know where
I can find a Windows-based program to generate systems (particularly ones that
I can enter my own star types).  Please reply via private e-mail at
noctifer@aol.com.

Thanks for any information you can provide.

Lucifer >:}

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 21:22:39 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Stupid Operator Tricks

        Sorry about sending that file to the whole bloody list....  I hit
the wrong button on the "Reply" options.  Serious apologies to all concerned...

        "Duh, Gee, Knuckles....  How can I top that one?"

        Regards,
           Michel
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
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	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:06:28 +1100
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re : Smuggling

Ian Whitchurch wrote :-
<usual good stuff snipped>

> Slaves are more difficult, especially if they are of the 'bonded immigrant'
> sort. I can see densitometers used on cargo containers.
>
Other non-gravitic gizmos :-
Ultrasound probes and directional mikes to check for breathing and
heartbeats.
Millimetre wave cameras.
Gas analysis (CO2 from non-sealed containers? Other breath volatiles??).

Failing this, CT scanning (now that would make for an interesting
customs post).
Neural activity sensors for the really high-tech customs officer.

The other option might be to inspect the container more closely.

"The manifest says there's twenty tons of vegetables in that container.
Why is it using a human rated life support system?"

Just my Cr 0.02...

Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 21:26:49 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: re: Starship Economics

Ian Whitchurch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Just as a question of interest, could you build me a 10 000t jump-2, one
gee freighter in HG ... put a 50t missile bay and some sandcasters and
lasers on it (enough to intimidate the crap out of any small pirate), plus
the best TL11 computer available. See what price it needs to charge to earn
3% on ship cost per annum.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
IMTU, bay weapons of any shape and size are a no-go for civilian (and
even most paramilitary) vessels - as are spinal mounts. It's a rule of
thumb the Imperial  government set up to determine what was a warship
and what wasn't, and there are only two kinds of warships in Imperial
space - warships under Imperial command, and warships shot at by
warships under Imperial command. 

(Note that "Imperial command" could mean Imperial Navy, and of the
subordinate Navies, or even the navy of a client state.)

This probably isn't a big deal, as a 10-turret missile battery can do
a nasty number on most pirate vessels.

Question for this 10,000tn trade vessel - should it carry it's own shuttle
facilities, or will it depend on local capabilities? Or will it only run on
routes that it's owning company has prepared with company-operated
port facilities?

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 22:40:06 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: re: Starship Economics

At 09:26 PM 22/11/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Ian Whitchurch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Just as a question of interest, could you build me a 10 000t jump-2, one
>gee freighter in HG ... put a 50t missile bay and some sandcasters and
>lasers on it (enough to intimidate the crap out of any small pirate), plus
>the best TL11 computer available. See what price it needs to charge to earn
>3% on ship cost per annum.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>IMTU, bay weapons of any shape and size are a no-go for civilian (and
>even most paramilitary) vessels - as are spinal mounts.

        Hi, Walt!
        Spinal mounts, yeah, most definately.  Bays...  depends, to me,
what's in them.  A mean missile mount or fusion gun, yes....  if only
because you can do that with turrets.  Particle and meson;  no.  Very Too
Military.

> It's a rule of
>thumb the Imperial  government set up to determine what was a warship
>and what wasn't, and there are only two kinds of warships in Imperial
>space - warships under Imperial command, and warships shot at by
>warships under Imperial command. 

        LOL.  I think that is a quote.

>(Note that "Imperial command" could mean Imperial Navy, and of the
>subordinate Navies, or even the navy of a client state.)
>
>This probably isn't a big deal, as a 10-turret missile battery can do
>a nasty number on most pirate vessels.
>
>Question for this 10,000tn trade vessel - should it carry it's own shuttle
>facilities, or will it depend on local capabilities? Or will it only run on
>routes that it's owning company has prepared with company-operated
>port facilities?
>
>Walt Smith

        The shuttle facilities on board mean it doesn't matter where it
goes.  It also served as a worst-case price tag for the ship, which was part
of the excercise.
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 22:58:16 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Re : Smuggling

>The other option might be to inspect the container more closely.
>
>"The manifest says there's twenty tons of vegetables in that container.
>Why is it using a human rated life support system?"
>
        "Because there's 20 tons of vegtables in that container."
                -slaves don't have to be that smart...
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 21:56:28 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: re: Jump-6 Courier Networks

Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
And a general comment about the X-boat network. It looks to me like it was
generated using random dierolls and that table in Book 3. It certainly
wasn't reality-checked. If the question about communication time really
was so serious as the Library Data claims, a much better setup would IMO
be in use. IMTU the sector captials are tied together by direct lines that
go by the most direct route and subsidiary networks carry the news to and
from subsector capital and other major worlds. Those doglegs that make
some major worlds less than 6 parsecs from each other three or four jumps
apart by X-boat just don't exist IMTU.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I visited my Dad tonight, and we were talking about farmers. He mentioned
the US Interstate system in the state of Iowa.

It seems that when the highways were being planned, the Department
of Transportation representatives figured out that the major traffic was
between Waterloo and Des Moines - and arranged a public meeting
with the local farm boards to discuss the main highway, to run
southwest from Waterloo to Des Moines. They were nearly lynched
by the irate farmers. After some discussion, the highway planners
agreed to run all the highways in Iowa on straight east-west lines,
unless a river, hill range or other terrain feature (one that also interfered
with farming) got in the way - running a diagonal highway would have
screwed up too much acreage of farm plots.

My point is, the best plan on a map isn't necessarily the best plan
in the real world. Not every star system works out as a defendable,
supportable, dependable location for a heavy-use communication
system base, no matter how well placed. Not every well-placed
world has as much clout as a slightly less well-placed world will
have. Some worlds that are currently peaceful members of the
Imperium were rough frontier worlds when the X-Boat link was
built, and haven't been re-evaluated as a place to move the link to
yet. A high-pop, vital world may have been undergoing a revolution
or severe civil unrest (Amber/Red zone) when the route was laid,
and missed the chance at hosting an X-Boat route. Heck, there may
even be natural causes - solar radiation that isn't dangerous to most
starships, but makes communication too difficult for X-Boat ops?

I like to look at random rolls as idea seeds. Sure, I'll toss them when
it suits me - but I like to at least look, and see what ideas they
present. Instead of saying "That X-Boat link is stupid there", I say
"that's odd. Why would that X-Boat link go that way instead of this?"

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 22:16:37 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: re: Teleportation

Black ICE wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
OTOH, I figure that anyone who tries to teleport from one moving ship
onto another deserves whatever damage he/she/it takes from differential
in kinetic energy.... 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
In the CT _Broadsword_ adventure, one scenario has a squad of
Zho commandos helping out the Tanoose Freedom League by
teleporting their battle-dressed, plasma-rifle toting butts onto the
merc cruiser while the marines were away. This is a nasty piece of
work to do to a bunch of PC's, but what the hey. <G>

I spoke to a GM who ran this adventure, his PC's came up with an
interesting defense. They knew from interrogating a captured Zho
officer that a Zho commando detachment was on Garda-Vilis, the
PC's figured that the optimum target was the Broadsword itself.

The locals wondered why the Merc cruiser was sitting in port, hovering
near the docking slip, spinning in circles like an oversize top.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:11:35 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Alternity

At 14:35 22/11/98 -0900, William F. Hostman wrote this about Alternty:

>The system mechanics aren't that bad... (It is somewhat cinematic, but not
>unplayable.) Haven't seen too many munchkins get interested in it, but
>mostly old D&D'ers who are looking for something to replace Star Frontiers.

For all that it's cinematic the combat system is quite deadly, though. It
also has a good delayed death mechanism - simple and easy to apply.

>It is an easy to learn, easy to run, well written, beatifully illustrated
>system. (IMHO, it made T4 look like something that feell out of a horse)

That's for sure.
- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 22:52:06 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Jump-6 courier networks (Was: Smuggling)

> >I simply think that the Court wants to keep this available only to
themself.
> 
> And you have that neat little MT story about how Norris took advantage of
> being the only one who knew to make himself Arch-duke to support that.
> Unfortunately that story was one of those ideas that sounds great until
> you give it a closer look. Then it starts leaking like a sieve.

Actually, here's an interesting TNS entry from Challenge 30...

REGINA/REGINA (0310-A788899-A) Date: 330-1116 

   The ducal household today announced that Duke Norris of Regina will travel
to Rhylanor to meet with representatives from several key worlds in the
Spinward Marches and Deneb sectors. The conference is scheduled to cover
"economic matters", a general term used when the agenda has not been made
public. The exact nature of the meeting has not been disclosed.
   In related matters, a rumor that the Duke has recently received a private
communication from Emperor Strephon has not been confirmed by official
sources. 

10 days later, the Ducal household acknowledges Strephon raising Norris to
Archduke.  It's far more likely, IMO, that there was a high level meeting over
"what to do" and that Duchess Delphine, etc etc all had a mean debate that
settled w/ Norris being elevated rather than Norris alone getting the info.
This seems to be a setup for just a theory.  It's a good bet the regional
megacorp exec's were there.

> >The x-boat network is kept at a jump-4 level through regulations so that
> >the Court will have an edge through getting the information to and from its
> >destination more quickly.
> 
> The real meta-reason why the X-boat network is only jump-4 is that you
> couldn't make a 100 T jump-6 courier with the original High Guard ship
> construction rules (I forget if it was possible with Book 2; I don't think
> so). Indeed, the TAS newsbriefs that tells of the newfangled drop tanks
> also mention that plans were being made to upgrade the X-boat network to
> jump-6, at least along the major links, using drop tanks.

It wouldn't be a real Jump 6 network.  It would still take at least two jumps
(and therefore double duration).  The J-6 couriers would still have an
advantage.  Maybe J-6/drop tank xboats *are* the commercial "Imperial Express
Service."  Could've well been running for years before the assassination.

> >This insures that the Court is the first to know, and that the Imperial
> >Megacorp gets that litte edge that keeps it ahead of everybody else.
> 
> First, that's 16 different organisations right there: The Imperial
> Bureaucracy, the Imperial Navy (both canonical), and 14 Megacorporate

Isn't it 13 (Imperial) Megacorps?  And isn't the TJ the *Emperor's* private
courier network, not that of the Imperial bureaucracy in general, no? Or is
there another?  Still that's a nit, 15 canonical organizations...  Course, the
Imperial Household has a piece in all of them, which just coincidentally
supports the theory of the Iridium Throne keeping J6, at least, controlled...

There is no canonical mention of any restrictions on a J6 private
network,though, is there?  Could the Imperium outlaw J5 and J6 drives for non-
commercial uses (w/o special permission/permit, etc) w/o violating canon?  For
that matter, were jump drives regulated at all?  There were annual maintenance
and licensing... perhaps it's never granted to large quantities of J5 and J6
ownership w/o the Imperial Household having a piece of the action?


Gary

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 00:05:28 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: New CC2 Deckplan Available

        My latest deckplan is up on my website.  148-ton TL10 "Serpent"
class Attack/Raider.
        "http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/janes_cat.html"

        Let me know what you think...
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 14:44:55 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Teleportation

- ----------
> From: Walter G. Smith <smithw@hartwick.edu>
> To: 'traveller@mpgn.com' <traveller@MPGN.COM>
> Subject: re: Teleportation
> Date: Monday, 23 November 1998 13:16
> 
> Black ICE wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> OTOH, I figure that anyone who tries to teleport from one moving ship
> onto another deserves whatever damage he/she/it takes from differential
> in kinetic energy.... 
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> In the CT _Broadsword_ adventure, one scenario has a squad of
> Zho commandos helping out the Tanoose Freedom League by
> teleporting their battle-dressed, plasma-rifle toting butts onto the
> merc cruiser while the marines were away. This is a nasty piece of
> work to do to a bunch of PC's, but what the hey. <G>
> 
> I spoke to a GM who ran this adventure, his PC's came up with an
> interesting defense. They knew from interrogating a captured Zho
> officer that a Zho commando detachment was on Garda-Vilis, the
> PC's figured that the optimum target was the Broadsword itself.
> 
> The locals wondered why the Merc cruiser was sitting in port, hovering
> near the docking slip, spinning in circles like an oversize top.
> 
> Walt Smith

Very impressive.  I wish I'd thought of it!

It would work IMTU, just because it's so ingenious.  To even try to work
out problems with it would merely be trying to penalise players for
thinking.

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 23:49:37 -0500
From: Brandon Quina <lore@tmgbbs.com>
Subject: Traveller Languages

I was curious.  Are there any ready information about languages,
as other than Anglic, they are ignored in GURPS: Traveller.  I'll use
my own stuff, most definatly, but it'd be nice to know if there is
any stuff already out there.

	In specific, I'm intrested in languages of the other alien
species?  How do the Hiver communicate?  Aslani??


	Here are my views.  The Vilani probally have a small number
of languages.  One 'religious tounge', and one language that evolved
over the years of the First Imperium.  In another 1000s years, if all
goes well, Anglic will probally end up as the only Solomani tounge--
in the meantime, though, i'd probally put versions of the languages
that belonged to the other major civilizations of the 21st century.

	The Vargr probally have hundreds of languages, though i'd
imagine that a simple pidgin language that's evolved over the
centurys to faciliate trade and such forth over the Extents.  It'd
be a very simple language, enough to get across simple concepts but
not really communicate in detail.

	The Zhondani are probally like the Third Imperium;  They would
have one language that serves a function simliar to Anglic, and afew
other languages left over from old civilizations.  The Dryone probally
only have one language, and no other forms of communcation of their own.

	
	I'm not as *sure* about the other races, and am pretty much
at a total loss about how the Hivers *communicate* period, much less
details about their languages...



- -- 
Brandon,
BY THE WAY;  If you play GURPS: Traveller and dislike the language
rules presented in GURPS, there's a nice alternative system (though
I wouldn't use most of the new/redefined skills...)  It's in the
GURPSnet Archive, at the following URL:

http://www.io.com/GURPSnet/Archive/AdsDisSkills/Languages/languages.skills

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 23:15:07 -0600
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net>
Subject: Re: Stupid Operator Tricks

At 07:22 PM 11/22/98 , you wrote:
>        Sorry about sending that file to the whole bloody list....  I hit
>the wrong button on the "Reply" options.  Serious apologies to all
concerned...
>
>        "Duh, Gee, Knuckles....  How can I top that one?"
>
>        Regards,
>           Michel

All right then..
Prepare to be Gang Audited by IRS Agents(Or Tax Revenue Agents Of Your
Countries Tax System).<G>

It happens to all of us one time or another.

Sinbad Sam

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 00:18:29 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

Keven Pittsinger wrote:

>> OK, so first piracy is dead and now smuggling is????  Oy, vey.

    Piracy *is* harder to pull off as a career.  Classical
pirates are like predators. They need to be some combination of
bigger, faster, better armed, or stealthier than their targets. 
They also need a safe base to operate from and a place to sell
their ill gotten gains. It's easy enough for a peaceful, well settled
imperium to make piracy a very high risk occupation that by 1100 I'd regard
it as largely a thing of the past. (Find where they go between raids and
park an IN cruiser there: Watch the poor homeless pirates decide to go
somewhere or be something else.)  Periods of expanding frontiers with
merchants racing ahead of the IN or warfare (privateering) are a different
matter.
   Smugglers aren't predators, and it's very difficult to get rid of them
without hampering more desirable trade. They can use anything between a
personal reentry capsule and an Imperial Dreadnaught, without actually
taking posession of it. The IN doesn't have standing orders to shoot at
suspectedsmugglers on sight.  (In some regions it's taken for granted
thatevery merchant is, has been, or will be a smuggler sometime). Your
suppliers usually aren't running away or shooting back at you, either.
  Worlds can make smuggling a high risk occupation, but if there is no
acceptable substitute for the goods, this just drives the price up and the
greater risk gets a greater reward.
  

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 98 23:27:35 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: .22 cal.

On 11/20/98 at 08:53 PM,  CardSharks@aol.com said:

><< I heard that was an old IRA trick. Don't know if it's true.... >>

>ROFLOL

I don't know if it started with the IRA, but I wouldn't doubt it. ;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 22:32:59 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@shell.rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Shivva Bridge / Fighters / Jump Drives

 
> > the Zhos when a 4 ton turret could have a good weapon. Why would we
> > expect Zho weapons to be compatable with Imperial ones? (or Vargr,
> > or Aslan, etc).
> 
> We shouldn't.   The Zhos at TL-14 should be using X-ray lasers (either grav
> focused or no), which actually facilitates *smaller* turrets.  When I designed
> my Hiver capital ships, i used ROF 200, 144 Mj Grav Focused Xray laser turrets
> (on a 3dt turret assumption).  I then tinkered w/ the size of the focal array
> (shrinking it) and got the volume down to 36m3 w/ optimum damage performance
> out to 80 BL/BR hexes.  
 
Wouldn't the hivers want even bigger turrets just so they could get
in there and fix stuff? That's the level I'm talking about in some
ways. Figuring out what a given alien would take as a baseline
assumption. What kinda room do they need to be able to do damage
control? Do they care? 

> I did use the 3/6 dt assumption, though.  More from familiarity than anything
> else, but it is a useful size niche.  The detail could (and probably would)
> vary according to actual volume.
 
yeah. But another thing to consider is your enemy. At TL14 or less,
the Zhos need to figure out how they will typically fight a TL15
enemy. Maybe they decide to forgo small turret weapons altogether,
and even their small ships have weapons with maximum DE for the TL
(assuming the TL*50 DE cap in FFS). They might have fewer weapons
per ship, or lower ROFs, but they can do more damage if they do hit.

It is cool because if you can rationalize such a thing it makes
aliens a little more alien. Hell, psychology might play a role in
weapon standards. Tradition as well. Adds a nice flavor, IMO.

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 22:53:38 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: A federal Imperium? (was Re: First Contact...)

>From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
>Subject: Re: First Contact future history
...
>Even if every state became a province. Constitutional change isn't just a
>matter of majority rule up here. Instead, you need to develop a consensus,
>which is slower, messier, and sometimes impossible. But it keeps the
>politicians busy and out of other mischief :-)
>
>But we're drifting pretty for from Traveller...

  Ooh, democracy in Traveller again!
  
  But seriously, while I think there's something to be said for the
sentiment that "representative democracy is no democracy" it may not
be a meaningful complaint to a particular society (e.g., currently 
most of North America).

  Even if a renewed federal Imperium (giggle) would occur and could
decide on some form of scaled representation that wouldn't simply be
the imposing of high-pop worlds' wills directly on others (as opposed
to the indirect system of domination implied by the economic system)
there remains the difficulty of communications (see - this is a Trav
thread!) times.

  Either worlds representatives are powerless due to a requirement for
their constituencies to approve all their actions, or federal powers
are restricted to very little (probably less in theory than the current
Imperial system), or those representatives can bind their worlds to the
agreements they make in their name - which latter makes both planetary
sovereignty and local responsible government somewhat problematic.

  Regardless of said representatives powers, their ability to negotiate
will be severely curtailed, again due to time lags. Those major (hi-tech,
hi-pop) worlds closest to the capital will be best able to ensure that
their own interests prevail, and worlds further from the core will find it
increasingly difficult to negotiate & express their desires before other
parties have determined their preferred course of action and arranged the
support necessary to pass it. Non-participatory democracy without effective
interest aggregation being available to all participants seems problematic.

  The point of having an assembly with any powers when the object appears
simply to be to disguise the perpetuation of the previous systems effects
may escape many of its supposed citizens.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1179
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Monday, November 23 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1180



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

JumpEx? (was Re: Smuggling)
re: Starship Economics
Re: Smuggling
Dogs & Tails (was Re: First Contact...)
Re: First Contact future history
Re: II Re: Smuggling
Languages in Traveller
Re: Starship Economics
Re: Jump-6 courier networks (Was: Smuggling)
Re: Starship economics
G:T Disads for Ships
Re: Smuggling
Stellar Diamiter
Re: G:T Disads for Ships
Re: Jump-6 courier networks (Was: Smuggling)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 23:16:07 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: JumpEx? (was Re: Smuggling)

>From: DustyLV769@aol.com
>Subject: Re: Smuggling
...
> Well, I'm not trying to "prove" anything.  However, the ships
> presented in the books as carrying mail aren't jump-6 and the
> Rebellion Source book indicates that general news of Stephon's
> death did not go jump-6.
>  >>
>
>	Why do we find it difficult to believe that such a company ( or companies)
>who specialize in fast info transfer exists?  As I see it, we have the United
>States Postal Service (owned and operated by you friendly federal goverment),
>which seems very similar to the X-Boat service... but we also have companies
>like FedEx or Airborne Ex to speed priority mail around.  Sure it would cost
>more to have J-6 ships...so you charge more for the premium service.  Lots of
>people would have uses for this service...including Law Enforcement agencies.

  At the very least there would likely be something functioning like a 
telegraph line operator, possibly combined with various financial services,
unless the ref wants to assume circumstances where there isn't any market
for such services beyond those already served by the X-Boat network.

  While a J-6 system requires real money (at least under HG) a mere drop
to J-5 saves a good percentage of that, as not only does the cost per Dt
of ship drop, but you can actually get all that into the minimum 100 Dt
hull at TL F*, at worst requiring some mildly dubious tweaking. Then you
bill people for the privilege of cross-connecting ~high-pop worlds that
happen to be on different X-Boat lines at whatever interval is the most
profitable.

  OTOH, I would accept the possibility that the Imperium (and its' licensed
commercial subsidiaries) maintains a de facto monopoly on J-5/6 commo, but
that implies a certain type of cynical, power-mad government which I might
find depressingly realistic.

 * GURPS doesn't use hexidec, and 9- are fairly close?

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 23:45:29 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: re: Starship Economics

>From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
>Subject: re: Starship Economics
...
>and what wasn't, and there are only two kinds of warships in Imperial
>space - warships under Imperial command, and warships shot at by
>warships under Imperial command. 
>
>(Note that "Imperial command" could mean Imperial Navy, and of the
>subordinate Navies, or even the navy of a client state.)

  Where would you put the dividing line for genuine military auxiliaries
(colonial fleets, planetary/SDB/COACC forces) as opposed to corporate
in-house security or possible paramilitary services (customs, police,
things like the IISS)?

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 00:33:15 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Smuggling

>From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
>Subject: Re: Smuggling
...
>>  Both the ship and personnel will have their identities changed reliably?
>
>Maybe (it is the approach that first comes to mind, though
>maybe you can just bop out of the Imperium and sell the
>ship and get a new one, but it would probably just be easier
>to change).

  How does one reliably deceive an ID system that incorporates
a full genetic work-up, within the constraints of known Trav tech?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 00:50:17 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Dogs & Tails (was Re: First Contact...)

>From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
>Subject: Re: First Contact future history
...
>Focusing back at Traveller, the US has 10x the population
>that Canada has.  This is a drop in the bucket compared to
>the population difference between the first Imperium and
>the Terran confederation.

  Or between the handful of high-pop worlds in a typical sub-sector,
and the rest of the sub-sector - can you imagine trying to build a
genuinely workable community out of even as simple a set of stats
(ignoring the cultural aspects) as the Islands Cluster? We tried to
build an Imperium game out of that, and the basic economic research
showed that any three-plus sided campaign would turn into "contain
the Esperanzan gutter-scum"; luckily they're only at TL B, but they
have _60%_ of the population of both sub-sectors!

  Which is part of why I'm in favour of having industrial output for
worlds be non-linear beyond some level under a billion people.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 00:59:34 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: First Contact future history

>Subject: Re: First Contact future history
...
>However, the desire to influence presidential elections
>would probably cause the Canadian parties to start forming
>Alliances with the American parties.  Eventually they would
>merge.

  That I wonder about - we have genuine (theoretically, anyway)
socialist parties, and some other odd quirks, of which official
bilingualism likely would not go away.

  Of course, although the 3I has to worry about separatism, it's
a truncated threat due to the lack of a forum for regional issues
to be aired - which begs the question of just how clever was it of
Strephon to re-emphasize the Domains?

  By 1122 a lot of people would have only wished that there'd been
an Invasion: Ilelish action :>

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 01:13:32 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: II Re: Smuggling

>From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
>Subject: Re: II Re: Smuggling
...
>>  What proportion of small traders are that fast?
>
>a) you don't need to be that fast to out run mail that
>has to wait at each port for available ships.

  Which presupposes that all such systems are not run for efficiency -
which is difficult enough to believe for the X-Boat system (what was it,
a theoretical J-2.6 per 7 days average?); a commercial system becomes
largely inexplicable under those constraints.

  And don't even think what happens if INI actually has a real grip on
anti-piracy tasking and budgets.

>b) they don't have to be common.  If being jump 3+ lets
>you smuggle, then it will be people with those ships that
>do the smuggling.

  Luckily the authorities will never twig to that, I guess.

...
>Ships will be moving to get to certain areas for a variety of
>reasons.  This isn't much of an excuse to detain a ship (and
>then the background needs to present the effects of all
>those other ships being detained by mistake).

  Who mentioned detaining ships? 

  Besides, as far as I can see the major side-effect of actually
having reasonable internal security is that major starship related
crimes become fairly difficult :)

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 22:47:02 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Languages in Traveller

>I was curious.  Are there any ready information about languages,
>as other than Anglic, they are ignored in GURPS: Traveller.  I'll use
>my own stuff, most definatly, but it'd be nice to know if there is
>any stuff already out there.

Just the canon references here... one of the TravLang types can probably
give sources developed from there...

The CT Alien module series (all of them except Solomani) makes reference to
languages. These same also give word generation tables for the respective
languages.

Several JTAS articles cover different aspects... one gives dialectical
differentiation. One covers some aspects of Vilani language.

MT sources include more details on Trokh (Aslan).

Some notes:
Vilani, according to JTAS, is tonal, using 6 tones, and inflected thusly.
(From JTAS, and questionable, but I like it).

Trokh is spoken both on the in and out breath motions. The appropriate
break-points are importnat, especially in poetry. There are two written
forms, one for males and one for females. (The flowing letters of the male
script are what we normally see... the female script is more of a block
printing.)

Gveh is one of several related languages of the Gvurrdon area.

Hivers are mute. They communicate by touch and hand-waving (sign-language).
The entire hiver interstellar nation state uses hiver glyphs (the written
form of the hiver "Language") as the lingua franca, especially for
contracts. Hivers are not deaf. They can hear, and thus learn to
understand, spoken language. Hiver language is definitely not scent
based... only about half of all hivers can smell.

JTAS suggests that the farther from the mains, the more divergent the
locals use of galanglic should be. Mechanics of the article are for CT.

In CT, languages could be learned, and were on a 1-12 scale, and didn't
count against the "experience limit" (Source, alien module 1: Aslan). In
MT, language ability was implied to be boolean: each level of linguistics
allowed you to speak one additional language; linguistics counts against
the experience limit. In TNE, each language was a separate skill, and there
is noe Experience limit. Didn't pay enough attention in T4.

===IMTU Seperator===
IMTU, I use MT mechanics; I have occasionally utilized the following tweak:
each reciept of a linguistics provides 1d6 levels of a language and a level
of linguistics, OR 2d6 levels of language and NO liguistics level.
Languages don't count against the experience limit. Linguistics does.
Native language is spoken at 12, or both at 6+1d6 each if bilingual, or
4+1d6 if tri-lingual. I require some justification for bi- and tri-lingual
characters. I also assume that many worlds have a local dialect of
galanglic, usually causing a 1-3 level reduction in capability between
locals and non-locals. (This is based upon the JTAS article mentioned
above.)

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:aramis@gci.net> Note: All other E-mail addresses for me expire by
the end of november 1998!
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
UTUP 0309 6-7779577-5-5-2
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:30:13
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Starship Economics

>From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
>Subject: Re: Starship Economics
>
>        One of these days I am gonna have to read Striker.  I haven't
>bothered (even though I own it), since its never been applicable to anything
>my players have done.  Of course, now that I have an interstellar war
>looming on the horizon, maybe I'll have an excuse.
>

Flip to the economics rules in Striker Book 2. They have GDP number for
various TLs, modifiers for Trade Codes, and exchange rates between various
worlds. Plus annual costs of soldiers of various qualities.

Book 3 has lots of good gearhead stuff, and lots of pre-built infantry gear.

>        I think this is how I will start doing things IMTU.  I can even base
>the "risk premiums" on the area:  Core Worlds = 1x, Established Worlds =
>1.5x, Frontier Worlds = 2x, Beyond Frontier = 2.5x.  
>        >>>Insert Starving Colony Here<<<
>

Makes sense as a set of rules of thumb.

>>Now, lets assume you are shipping ... High Guard power plants for 200 t Far
>>Traders. Buy em at Industrial worlds, ship em to non-industrial worlds with
>>type A and B starports. Now, assuming we buy them at 90% of book value at
>>the industrial source world, and sell them at book value at the
>>destination, how far can we ship them at Cr 5000 a jump-3 ?
>
>        Yep...  Buckets of Cash.
>

Once you make cargos far more value-dense, then shipping things a long way
makes more sense.

>>Note that at 5 TLs worse, your breakeven point is only about 40% higher for
>>a 1 gee, jump-1 ship. Compare this to how much more inefficient a warship
>>is at TL10 vis a vis TL 15.
>
>        Yeah, I noticed that too.  Fighting ships suffer alot with TL, but
>merchants and liners don't really.  Of course, that 40% can look like a Rift
>when you're trying to make a starship payment.
>

Ah yes, but your payment should be so much less, because our TL11 world
will be prepared to build 20 TL11 10 000t freighters to buy one TL15 30
000t cruiser.

>>Oh, and sticking to patrolled areas isnt absolutely neccessary. Triple
>>sandcasters and triple missile turrets only take up hardpoints and space,
>>and dont chew up expensive power.
>
>        Yah, but you have to buy reloads, take up space for magazine, have
>1/4 of your mountings reloading at any one time in combat and <Pick Diety,
>Allah - Zeus, inclusive) help you if you run out of ammo.  Lasers will keep
>firing every round right up to the point where the powerplant goes offline,
>at which point you'd loose your missiles too.
>

Well, balanced against this is the fact that you only burn ammo while in
combat, and the smaller power plant makes you cheaper. Basically, two
lasers = 1 missile + 1 sandcaster, with the plus of being more flexible,
but the minus of needing power.

>>It has *huge* implications. Really, really, big implications. No more
>>hi-tech freighters - they are too expensive. Lots of low-tech traders from
>>the boondocks, shipping people and goods for handfuls of Imperial credits.
>
>        Yepper!  It makes the "40-year old" merchant ship believeable,
>particularly in a technologically growing TU, such as mine.  Max TL for the
>Core is 11, but by the end of a 100-year war, the Core will be TL 15.  That
>means a state-of-the-art Core Merchant is going to be a Frontier TL vessel
>by the end of the payments.
>

40 year old merchant ships are entirely believable in my book. Personally,
I reduce the Cr 2000/jump 'life support costs' and increase annual
maintainence to costing 1% of ship costs per 10 years old.

>>Oh, and under HG combat rules, figure out what a captain with Ship
>>Tactics-4 is worth ... and then figure what she could ask for, and get, as
>>an annual salary.
>
>        Again, I *like*....  

Thank you. You've thought of the next PC party starting as the captain and
senior crew of a National ?

>>Well, you have to remember that the US stock market is in the midst of a
>>massive speculative bubble right now. 9% per annum rises in stock prices
>>are *not* normal. There have been large chunks of history where investors
>>would have been happy to get 2%.
>>
>
>        Yeah, but I've heard a lot of financial analysts indicating that at
>the rate the world is developing, the "first world" nations' economies are
>going to be running hot for a while.  Postulate that you have planets that
>you can export an entire world's worth of grain consumption too (starting
>colony, hi-pop worlds, etc) and I don't see that slowing much below 5% on a
>much lower risk money environment.
>

I do. Check out the US stock market in the 1950s, for example. In any case,
low interest rates are good for gaming, becuase if you can only get 1%
clipping coupons, then speculative investments (like, say, your Third
Cousin Alledon's Frontier Trader) get to be a much more justifiable
investment.


>        Thanks very much, Ian.  I am really enjoying this thread.  Nice to
>chat with someone online who can debate/ discuss a point rationally for an
>ongoing period of time.

*grin* *makes Traveller Economics Gearhead secret hand signal* (actually
'KCr 1 per dton per jump must die' in sign)

Seriously, a lot of this thinking got distilled in the Great Piracy Debate
of 1997-8 ... *waves to Walt, Steve, Hans, etc*

>        Hi, Ian!
>        Nope, it doesn't work....  JP2 cargoes only earn Cr1250/ ton,
>meaning you loose KCr121 per month, or MCr1.46/year.  Cr750 + Cr500/jump is
>a healthier balancing number for low tech ships.

One of the concequences of technological development in Traveller is that
transport costs go down. I dont know what the exact numbers are, but it is
true as a trend.

>        I agree.  The problem is that our PPT calculations at Cr750 +
>Cr500/jump call for *perfect* conditions *every* trip.  One brawl that you
>have to do significant repairs, even if you obliterate the corsair and his
>two foolhardy associates, and you are in the red for the year.

HG has those lovely 'Fuel Tanks Shattered' crits, doesnt it ... what are
the odds of at least one of those corsairs being left for dead in the
water, ready for boarding ? Adds insult to injury for the pirates when the
freighter boards *them*, doesnt it ...

Seriously, a free market should eventually pitch freight rates at an
appropriate level to compensate for risk. The alternatives would be
freighter owners deciding to mothball their ships until things improved, or
flee to a Safe of one sort or another, or face de facto nationalisation by
worlds determined to hold the trade routes open at gunpoint.

>
>>Remember, this is a TL11 design ... if you are operating in a higher tech
>>Imperium, buying it with soft currency and getting paid in hard currency,
>>then it starts to become more and more economically viable, even without
>>risk premiums.
>
>        At (Cr250 + Cr500 /jump) /ton, with risk premiums as I suggested for
>MTU, this ship would have to operate almost exclusively in the Frontier to
>make solid profits.  Paradoxically, this also means it runs greater risk of
>taking expensive damage.  Again, YMMV, since I don't know how dangerous YTU
>is.  In the Frontier, there is a 3/12 chance of a Corsair or Privateer at a
>"B" class starport....  it gets somewhat worse at lesser ports.

This is too high to be believable IMO, unless you are in the midst of a
Civil War or similar. Give me a budget for our B starport, and I think I
can make life uncomfortable for pirates in that system. Also, remember that
historically piracy has been a sign of healthy trade and expanding economies.

The next question is what percentage of those pirates are hard enough to
take on a National class ? Piracy is a business, and I can see a big
downside in tangling with something like a National ...

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:46:42 +0100 (MET)
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
Subject: Re: Jump-6 courier networks (Was: Smuggling)

On Sun, 22 Nov 1998, Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>Tommy Grav writes:
>>I simply think that the Court wants to keep this available only to themself.
>
>And you have that neat little MT story about how Norris took advantage of
>being the only one who knew to make himself Arch-duke to support that.
>Unfortunately that story was one of those ideas that sounds great until
>you give it a closer look. Then it starts leaking like a sieve.
>
>>The x-boat network is kept at a jump-4 level through regulations so that 
>>the Court will have an edge through getting the information to and from its
>>destination more quickly.
>
[High Guard Info Snipped]
>
>Nowadays, after the mandatory 20 T bridge is no longer mandatory, it is
>possible to make jump-6 X-boats. So another reason was needed. But "the 
>Imperium wants to keep the capability to itself" dosen't cut it. Jump-6
>ships are _potentially_ available to far too many people with both the
>funds and the desire for quick information. (My own preferred explanation
>that jump-4 was the highest possible jump when the X-boat system was put
>into place, and the X-boat manufacturers lobby has labored mightily to
>keep the Imperium from upgrading. But I also think that a lot of different
>organisations have their own private courier network.)  

Of course there might be some Jump-6 couriers owned by others than the
Emperor, but IMHO the Imperium would outlaw a Imperium wide Jump-6
Courier Network on the basis of internal security. Enourmous hills
of documents to be filled. numerous comitees, subcomittes to win over.
And so on. If the Emperor wants to keep his Jump-6 Courior Fleet to
himself I think he will get it. Anything else will be seen as an open
act of aggression by the nobles. 

>>This insures that the Court is the first to know, and that the Imperial
>>Megacorp gets that litte edge that keeps it ahead of everybody else.
>
>First, that's 16 different organisations right there: The Imperial
>Bureaucracy, the Imperial Navy (both canonical), and 14 Megacorporate
>networks. 

I was more thinking of the Emperors corporation from M0 when I said
*the Imperial Megacorp* (singular). I only own some TNE and T4 stuff,
everything else is pick up from reading TML and a lot of webpages.
I get the impression that the Emperors corp is something you keep
out of the way of. Even the other megacorps deal carefully with it, and
makes sure that they don't take to many contracts in competition with 
it. You could say that I view the Court (including the Megacorps) much
as the Centauri from B5. There is much infighting, murder, deception,
but nobody dears threathen the Emperor, his house or his companies. 

> The megacorporations are not the same as the Court, you know. Add
>to that all the high-tech, high-population worlds that like to get their
>news fresh and you have another I-don't-know-how-many private networks. And
>then, of course, precisely because advance information is so valuable in a
>commercial sense, I believe that the sector-wide companies would have to set
>up networks of their own in sheer self-defense. And the sub-sector wide
>companies would propably club together to set up their own network. Then
>there are the sector-wide news networks and TAS, both IMO both willing and
>able to pay for a courier network of their own.

Able to pay and willing do they get the chance, but the Imperium is a 
long time monarchy, where the Emperor is much like a god. One does not
oppose or speak against him, his word is law, his family and busniesses
are holy. It is only for him to have the best.

>      Hans Rancke

Tommy Grav
- -------------------------------------------------------------
tommy.grav@astro.uio.no     http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/  
Institute of Astrophysics, UiO, No  
IMTU tn++t4+tg+ ru+ge++ !3i jt+au+st+ls hi++dr-so++zh-sy-sw++ 
 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:58:20
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Starship economics

>From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
>Subject: re: Starship Economics
>
>Ian Whitchurch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Just as a question of interest, could you build me a 10 000t jump-2, one
>gee freighter in HG ... put a 50t missile bay and some sandcasters and
>lasers on it (enough to intimidate the crap out of any small pirate), plus
>the best TL11 computer available. See what price it needs to charge to earn
>3% on ship cost per annum.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>IMTU, bay weapons of any shape and size are a no-go for civilian (and
>even most paramilitary) vessels - as are spinal mounts. It's a rule of
>thumb the Imperial  government set up to determine what was a warship
>and what wasn't, and there are only two kinds of warships in Imperial
>space - warships under Imperial command, and warships shot at by
>warships under Imperial command. 
>

The idea behind having the ship commissioned was something along the lines
of a National is my idea of a Subsidised Merchant. Self-escorting, jump-2,
and a big enough cargo bay to make a difference to the worlds en route (if
you just want a mail packet, use a Type S or a type A2). The National comes
damn close to being self-financing as well.

I can see why the IN would want to regulate heavy firepower, but I can also
see how His Grace, the Duke of Everywhen may want to write to his Cousin,
the Admiral, advising him that His Personal Yacht, the National Prosperity,
was going on a cruise under the command of his nephew, and would he mind
signing this exemption ?

The other solution is to declare it a Naval Auxilary, and put a
commissioned Lieutenant in charge of the missile bay, plus a double squad
of Marines to board any pirates silly enough to tangle with it.

>Question for this 10,000tn trade vessel - should it carry it's own shuttle
>facilities, or will it depend on local capabilities? Or will it only run on
>routes that it's owning company has prepared with company-operated
>port facilities?

Personally, I think that the port should have the surface-orbit assets, but
the National class carries a big shuttle. Hmmm, I wonder what overhead
re-entry capable cargo containers should have ?

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 19:28:57
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: G:T Disads for Ships

I like the idea of a ship that has the Unlucky disad.

I think Addiction could apply as well, representing a higher than usual
demand for spare parts etc ... I'm just not sure of the cash vs point
costs. Now $6000 of monthly earning capability seems to cost 1 XP as a Ship
Patron, so if we multiply the Addiction costs by 20 (ships have expensive
tastes) it should do it.

In this context, Addictive and Highly Addictive would represent bad and
worse concequences of not seeing to the ships' jones for spare lanthanum
coils etc.

Of course, it's cheaper to just take the addiction yourself, but thats
minimaxing ;) 

Hmmm. Colour blindness ... lame ... possibilities keep presenting
themselves ...

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 02:38:37 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Smuggling

>From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
>Subject: Re: Smuggling
...
>There may be specialty ships that take messages faster (some
>megacorps have built them for themselves, right?), but I don't
>see widespread disemination going this way.

  I'm not sure if many megacorps have their own networks of scheduled
couriers as opposed to having such vessels available at sector HO's
or the like - at this stage that may not yet be covered.

  If a corp (even a sub- or sector wide one) had its' own regular
network, then they would have to have a good reason not to use it
to generate revenue by carrying others' messages on it.

>>  I also seem to recall the theory that no merchant would want
>>to use any service other than the X-Boat system due to security
>>and/or privacy concerns.
>
>I don't, but then I don't read every thread.  My guess is
>that most info would propigate fastest over the X-boat
>backbone and then spread out from their more slowly.

  IIRC, someone claimed that no tramp trader would send a message
ahead to announce their intended arrival (plus cargo and passenger
manifests where applicable) as it would be unthinkable to send a
message via another merchant ship.

  Of course, such a theory is clearly outmoded by the principle that
"most mail will, in fact, go on the self same commercial ships", i.e.,
tramp traders?

  If the X-Boat system is the fastest form of commo for most info then:
a) most info is almost completely time-insensitive, including from the
customers POV, b) the X-Boat system does run very much closer to 100%
efficiency for all but the lowest priority data, or c) the system is
broken and the backup "suspension of disbelief" damper has to be fed
the new suppression mission specs.

 OC, the above doesn't preclude a restrictive attitude towards J-5/6 units.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:38:17 +0000 (GMT)
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Stellar Diamiter

I've had a quick look through WBH and have found the Stellar mass tables,
but could not find anything for Stellar Diamiter.

Did I miss something ? If not is there any way to generate, or gage
stellar diamiter from Stellar mass or stellar type ?

Ewan

	Ewan Quibell
	Data Communications Technician        The Game's afoot:
	Computer Centre                       Follow your spirit, and apon
	University of Brighton                  this charge
                                              Cry 'God for Harry, England,
	E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              and Saint George !'

                                                    Henry V 3:1
	#include<stddisclamer.h>                    W. Shakespeare

	My spelling is entierly due to dyslexia, typoes and poetic license

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 04:26:43 PST
From: "John Macek" <pyra_c@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: G:T Disads for Ships

Ian wrote:

>
>I like the idea of a ship that has the Unlucky disad.
>
>I think Addiction could apply as well, representing a higher than usual
>demand for spare parts etc ... I'm just not sure of the cash vs point
>costs. Now $6000 of monthly earning capability seems to cost 1 XP as a Ship
>Patron, so if we multiply the Addiction costs by 20 (ships have expensive
>tastes) it should do it.
>
>In this context, Addictive and Highly Addictive would represent bad and
>worse concequences of not seeing to the ships' jones for spare lanthanum
>coils etc.
>
>Of course, it's cheaper to just take the addiction yourself, but thats
>minimaxing ;) 
>
>Hmmm. Colour blindness ... lame ... possibilities keep presenting
>themselves ...
>

I dislike the Ship Patron advantage.  I can't put my finger on "why" I 
dislike it, but I do.  However....

I really like this idea!  

How about:

Ships could have a Reputation, either good or bad.  Or ship classes 
could have a Rep.  This could affect the value of the ship.  It could 
affect the amount and type of cargo people would be willing to ship.  "I 
dunno if I'm willing to send my precious cargo of fleep in *that* 
thing."

Or, it could possibly affect crew performance.  

For instance, lets say the Stickley class patrol boat has a -1 
Reputation for being a lousy design.  Whenever a ship related task is 
rolled for, the crew member in question must roll IQ or less to avoid a 
- -1 to the skill roll.  

Don't like that?  Hmmmm.  How about any crew with the Superstitious 
disad instead of all crew....

And... and... if I only had my books with me I'm sure I could come up 
with plenty of variations. 

:^)

John

=====
"It's shite being a Jedi. We're the lowest of the low."
Ewan McGregor as the young Obi-wan, Star Wars Episode 1


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:34:45 +0000
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Jump-6 courier networks (Was: Smuggling)

At 23:48 22/11/1998 +0100, Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> wrote:

<snip>

>But "the 
>Imperium wants to keep the capability to itself" dosen't cut it. Jump-6
>ships are _potentially_ available to far too many people with both the
>funds and the desire for quick information. (My own preferred explanation
>that jump-4 was the highest possible jump when the X-boat system was put
>into place, and the X-boat manufacturers lobby has labored mightily to
>keep the Imperium from upgrading. But I also think that a lot of different
>organisations have their own private courier network.)  
>

<snip>

So let me see...

I make the X-boats for the Imperium.
Someone invents J-5
I could:
	a) lobby to get the whole thing replaced with (more expensive) J-5,
	b) lobby to just replace the old ships with new ones as they wear out.

When you consider the advantages of (a): your could use the now redundant
J-4s on shorter feeder links thus expanding the service (and the future
per year replacement bill 'cos there are more ships.)

by 1116 and a successive upgrade to J-6 you would have spare J-5 ships
and probably X-boats for each of J-1 to J-6 (there are enough routes
that the savings on J-1 ships for J-1 routes should be enough).

Then all the worlds would actually have regular Imperial contact.

Also you could use X-boats with fuel for two jumps on routes to small
worlds at J-1 through J-4 distances and do round trips without needing
a base at both ends.

Finally, the 3I should be able to replan the X-boat route every 100 years
or so (after all, you don't remove service, just add additional long jumps.)
They're not totally Vilani after all. :-)

Conclusion:
Either
	the J-4 X-boats are just an example (the type most frequently encountered)
	and J-6 boats exist (but there are only a few running the main routes)
	and the X-boat network is optimised for travel times (using warships,
	bases in empty hexes and feeder lines to all planets using ships capable
	of two successivejumps.)
OR
	The Imperium keeps J-5 and J-6 to itself.
	The X-boat network is designed to be worse than it could.
	The Emperor, the Navy and the Megacorps have an information advantage.

Choices, choices.

Phil Kitching

- --
  Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
 "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1180
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Monday, November 23 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1181



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: meters
Mass combat system for Traveller
Re: Jump-6 courier networks
Re: minimaxing (NOT)
Traveller ship construction modules
Re: Jump-6 courier networks
Re: Traveller Languages
re: Starship Economics
Re: Starship Economics
Re: Jump 6 courier networks
Re: Smuggling
Developing a new ship
Re: Jump-6 courier network

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 07:58:19 -0500
From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
Subject: Re: meters

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:42:50 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1169
Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com writes:
>sure, using the official "Good Enough For Gaming" conversion rules:  All
>distances in yards become distances in meters...The deckplans are now in
>meters for your game.
That's a 10% discrepancy. Intolerable to an iron-ringed gearhead :-)
Seriously, I was assuming that it would just be a matter of changing the
overlay grid.
**************
you can just alter the height for the deck as well to compensate.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 08:02:09 -0500
From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
Subject: Mass combat system for Traveller

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:49:08 CST
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@itds.com>
Subject: Mass combat system for Traveller
Ok:
Did anyone ever design a mass combat system for ANY edition of Traveller
starship combat?
Help!
***********
for GT

the mass combat system is in Space, and is reprinted in CII

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 14:35:50 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Jump-6 courier networks

Steven Hudson writes:
>  OTOH, I would accept the possibility that the Imperium (and its' licensed
>commercial subsidiaries) maintains a de facto monopoly on J-5/6 commo, but
>that implies a certain type of cynical, power-mad government which I might
>find depressingly realistic.

The trouble here is IMO that that implies a government power-mad enough to
go to enormous trouble to keep a jump-6 monopoly, but lax enough to allow
independent smugglers and pirates, and which for some inexplicable reason
use the slow X-boat network instead of faster private network for its
official correspondance. 

There may be Imperiums that are so tightly controlled that they can and do
prevent the existence of private jump-6 networks, but IMO it is not the
same Imperiums that allow pirates to run riot and private trade wars all
over the place.

Tommy Grav writes:

>Of course there might be some Jump-6 couriers owned by others than the
>Emperor, but IMHO the Imperium would outlaw a Imperium wide Jump-6
>Courier Network on the basis of internal security. Enourmous hills
>of documents to be filled. numerous comitees, subcomittes to win over.
>And so on. If the Emperor wants to keep his Jump-6 Courier Fleet to
>himself I think he will get it. Anything else will be seen as an open
>act of aggression by the nobles. 
>
>[...]
> 
>Able to pay and willing do they get the chance, but the Imperium is a 
>long time monarchy, where the Emperor is much like a god. One does not
>oppose or speak against him, his word is law, his family and businesses
>are holy. It is only for him to have the best.

It looks like your conception of the nature of the Imperium and the Emperor's
status is too different from mine to let us have a meaningful discussion.
Suffice it to say that I don't find any support in any canonical sources
for the Emperor being a God-Emperor.

However, there is at least one canonical organisation with the means and the
incentive, indeed, the obligation, to set up a jump-6 network: The Imperial
Navy. Even if no commercial or civilian network exist, I'd say that data
about ships that are in violation of Imperial law would be a legitimate
load for an IN network, wouldn't you?


Phil Kitching writes:

>At 23:48 22/11/1998 +0100, Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> wrote:

>>My own preferred explanation that jump-4 was the highest possible jump when
>>the X-boat system was put into place, and the X-boat manufacturers lobby
>>has labored mightily to keep the Imperium from upgrading. But I also think
>>that a lot of different organisations have their own private courier
>network.  

>So let me see...
> 
>I make the X-boats for the Imperium.
>Someone invents J-5
>I could:
>	a) lobby to get the whole thing replaced with (more expensive) J-5,
>	b) lobby to just replace the old ships with new ones as they wear out.

I didn't say it was a very good explanation. It's just the best I could come
up with. And it isn't totally silly. There's no guarantee that just because
you can make jump-4 ships you can upgrade to TL 14 ships. Many of those
shipyards could've been facing the total loss of their contracts to other
yards if the Imperium decided to upgrade the X-boat network. And there's
another thing. A lot of planets would lose their X-boat stations if the
jump numbers were to change. Still, I admit that it is a cheesy explanation.
If you can suggest a better one, go ahead.
 
>Finally, the 3I should be able to replan the X-boat route every 100 years
>or so (after all, you don't remove service, just add additional long jumps.)
>They're not totally Vilani after all. :-)

I agree with you 100%. Yet the fact remains that the X-boat network DO use
jump-4 ships in 1100. How do you explain that?
 
>Conclusion:
>Either
>    the J-4 X-boats are just an example (the type most frequently encountered)
>    and J-6 boats exist (but there are only a few running the main routes)
>    and the X-boat network is optimised for travel times (using warships,
>    bases in empty hexes and feeder lines to all planets using ships capable
>    of two successivejumps.)

Now that is how things work IMTU. But in the OTU the X-boats are clearly
said to be jump-4, period.

>OR
>    The Imperium keeps J-5 and J-6 to itself.

Not possible. It is canonical that the Imperium allow planetary navies. Any
TL 15 planet is able to build and use their own jump-6 couriers.

>    The X-boat network is designed to be worse than it could.

No, it was designed to be as efficient as possible back when it was built.
That fits with the canonical descriptions of how the Imperium is straining
under the stress of the communication times between the periphery and the
core. What dosen't fit is that the major links haven't been upgraded.

>    The Emperor, the Navy and the Megacorps have an information advantage.

That's 15 different sets of people right there. It is said that two people
can keep a secret if one of them is dead. That's an exaggeration, but not
much of one. An advantage you share not with 14 other people, but with 14
other GROUPS of people is not much of an advantage. 


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 08:49:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Conley <estar@wrench.toolcity.net>
Subject: Re: minimaxing (NOT)

On Fri, 20 Nov 1998 GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:

> Two things would make this easier in GURPS, Hero, or any other point-based
> character generation system if they were more widely recognized:
>  The first is a quote from various Hero System books: "If it isn't
> really a disadvantage, you don't really get points for it."
>  The second is philosophically abhorent to most players of such games
> (believe me, the facial reactions I've seen prove it) but is really
> quite reasonable: Make the point totals represent the character INSTEAD
> of having the character represent the points.

We have a house rule that we don't award any points for disadvantages.
When we say you can build a 150 point character that is 150 points in
attributes, advantages, and skills. 

What happens that the GMs of our group can assign the disadvantages based
on the character's role-playing. Usally the GM limits this to 40 points
worth. For the physical disadvantage what happens in-game happens in-game
so if a character winds up lame he winds up lame. The upside is that if
the character finds a cure he doesn't have to spend the next X xp toward
getting rid of disadvantages.

Racial, and template disadvantages are not affected by this rule.

What we all found is that the players that can't role-play well. Well..
their role-playing ability remains minimal. The players who want to
role-play the disadvantages will any way. Since our group is a mix of
both we decided it would more fair and fun for everyone that we do this.

What has happened is that character come in game with one and two
disadvantages and by the end of the second and third adventure it is
usally quite obivous what the other disadvantages are. The nice thing it
makes for better characters because your initial conception never survives
100% from the first adventure. As you role-play your first couple of games
the character alters as you better understand what you are trying to do
and what the gamemaster's world is like.

Of course for some of the players in my group seem to wind up with the
same disadvantages time and time again. For one guy the entire group was
unanimous that his next character was to have the common sense advantage.
So we can the right to explain to him why the action he just blurted out
was so bone-headed and too take it back.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 08:37:28 -0500
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: Traveller ship construction modules

	Has anyone managed to decipher exactly what systems go in to the various
modules in the GURPS Traveller ship construction system? I want to do a
chart of the same modules that are in GT, but at GTL 11, so I can build
ships like the Azhanti High Lightning, for example. I know some will be the
same as GTL 12, but others won't. I had a conversation with Aerron Winsor
about this on #Traveller one night, but I'm too impatient to wait on this
:) Ideas? Has anyone already done this?

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 14:50:03 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Jump-6 courier networks

Tommy Grav writes:

>On Sun, 22 Nov 1998, Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:

>I was more thinking of the Emperors corporation from M0 when I said
>*the Imperial Megacorp* (singular). I only own some TNE and T4 stuff,
>everything else is pick up from reading TML and a lot of webpages.

Zhunastu Enterprises do not survive into 1100. There is no information on
what happens to it (my own theory is that it goes down the tubes during the
Civil War), but it definitely isn't around any longer. Instead, the Imperial
Family (exactly which members of the IF is unspecified) owns stock in all
Megacorporations (except one, and IMTU that is a misprint) and all the (four
or five) lesser interstellar corporations of which I've seen breakdowns of
stock ownership. In some of them the IF ownership is as low as 2%, in others
it is considerably more. (IMTU the price of getting an interstellar charter
is to give the Emperor 2% of your stock(known as "The Emperor's Share").
That's what finances the Imperial Bureaucracy IMTU).


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:00:35 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Traveller Languages

Brandon Quina <lore@tmgbbs.com> writes:
>I was curious.  Are there any ready information about languages,
>as other than Anglic, they are ignored in GURPS: Traveller.  I'll use
>my own stuff, most definatly, but it'd be nice to know if there is
>any stuff already out there.

Depends on how you define "ready", but there's _lots_ of stuff available.
Traveller has always provided a fair amount of information on languages.
(Just a guess, but you came on board with GT, right?)
>
>	In specific, I'm intrested in languages of the other alien
>species?  How do the Hiver communicate?  Aslani??

Every alien module contained a system allowing you to generate words with
a unique 'feel' - except Hivers, who use a gestural language.

Look up the old CT/MT/TNE alien modules for more information.

you might also want to join the TravLang mailing list, where we are
creating Vilani; vocabulary, syntax, phonology...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 08:53:34 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Starship Economics

Ian Whitchurch wrote (re bay weps on a "civilian" ship):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I can see why the IN would want to regulate heavy firepower, but I can also
see how His Grace, the Duke of Everywhen may want to write to his Cousin,
the Admiral, advising him that His Personal Yacht, the National Prosperity,
was going on a cruise under the command of his nephew, and would he mind signing this exemption ?

The other solution is to declare it a Naval Auxilary, and put a
commissioned Lieutenant in charge of the missile bay, plus a double squad
of Marines to board any pirates silly enough to tangle with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Powerful people will always find exceptions to the rules, especially in
a land ruled by men instead of laws like the 3i. And I imagine there
would be plenty of exceptions, each with a carefully selected scapegoat
if something happens that could embarass the person who allowed the
exception to go through.

The idea of the self-escorting Naval Auxiliary is interesting, it costs
quite a bit more to put that missile bay in a 1500-2500dtn hull of
it's own (an escort frigate).

To answer Steve Hudson's question on how I break it down, what's
Imperial Fleet and what isn't:

The usual Imperial, Sector, and Subsector fleets are considered
Imperial fleets for purposes of determining whether they can have
warships or not. Planetary Navies can have warships with spinal
mounts and bay weapons if the jump capable ones are incorporated
into the Imperial command structure. System defense forces
(monitors and SDB's) aren't really worried about much, they're not
considered a force projection threat - though there may be planets
that have misbehaved in the past and aren't allowed such dangerous
toys.

So, Regina could have it's own Battlecruiser Squadron, if it were part
of the Regina Subsector Colonial Fleet. Another thing that keeps some
planets from building their own jump-capable warships: since they're
incorporated at some level into the Imperial Fleet command structure,
procedures are in place for an Imperial Admiral to take them away from
you, probably when you'd most rather they didn't.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:16:18 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Starship Economics

At 06:30 PM 23/11/98, you wrote:
>
>>From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
>>Subject: Re: Starship Economics
>>
>>        One of these days I am gonna have to read Striker.  I haven't
>>bothered (even though I own it), since its never been applicable to anything
>>my players have done.  Of course, now that I have an interstellar war
>>looming on the horizon, maybe I'll have an excuse.
>>
>
>Flip to the economics rules in Striker Book 2. They have GDP number for
>various TLs, modifiers for Trade Codes, and exchange rates between various
>worlds. Plus annual costs of soldiers of various qualities.
>
>Book 3 has lots of good gearhead stuff, and lots of pre-built infantry gear.

        Hi, Ian!
        I just took a skim, and it does indeed look like good stuff.  I'll
have to read it over, if only to get a better understanding.  

>>>Note that at 5 TLs worse, your breakeven point is only about 40% higher for
>>>a 1 gee, jump-1 ship. Compare this to how much more inefficient a warship
>>>is at TL10 vis a vis TL 15.
>>
>>        Yeah, I noticed that too.  Fighting ships suffer alot with TL, but
>>merchants and liners don't really.  Of course, that 40% can look like a Rift
>>when you're trying to make a starship payment.
>
>Ah yes, but your payment should be so much less, because our TL11 world
>will be prepared to build 20 TL11 10 000t freighters to buy one TL15 30
>000t cruiser.
>

        Well, our MCr4475.95 National, if bought at a TL11 Class A port in a
TL15 game, costs MCr2685.57.  This makes the PPT Breakpoint a very
easy-to-swallow Cr748/ton.  So, at our broken Cr1000/ton, we make MCr35 per
year, and at Cr250 + Cr500/parsec we make MCr70 per year, and at Cr750 +
Cr500/parsec we make MCr140 per year.  Those are then 1%, 3% and 5% rates of
return, respectively.

>>>It has *huge* implications. Really, really, big implications. No more
>>>hi-tech freighters - they are too expensive. Lots of low-tech traders from
>>>the boondocks, shipping people and goods for handfuls of Imperial credits.
>>
>>        Yepper!  It makes the "40-year old" merchant ship believeable,
>>particularly in a technologically growing TU, such as mine.  Max TL for the
>>Core is 11, but by the end of a 100-year war, the Core will be TL 15.  That
>>means a state-of-the-art Core Merchant is going to be a Frontier TL vessel
>>by the end of the payments.
>>
>40 year old merchant ships are entirely believable in my book. Personally,
>I reduce the Cr 2000/jump 'life support costs' and increase annual
>maintainence to costing 1% of ship costs per 10 years old.
>

        Hmm...  Nice mod.  I'll have to think about including that.

>>>Oh, and under HG combat rules, figure out what a captain with Ship
>>>Tactics-4 is worth ... and then figure what she could ask for, and get, as
>>>an annual salary.
>>
>>        Again, I *like*....  
>
>Thank you. You've thought of the next PC party starting as the captain and
>senior crew of a National ?

        Well, its possible....  right now, given that my current game has
just started, things will have Gone Very Wrong if I have the opportunity to
give the players a new start point. =)

>>>Well, you have to remember that the US stock market is in the midst of a
>>>massive speculative bubble right now. 9% per annum rises in stock prices
>>>are *not* normal. There have been large chunks of history where investors
>>>would have been happy to get 2%.
>>
>>        Yeah, but I've heard a lot of financial analysts indicating that at
>>the rate the world is developing, the "first world" nations' economies are
>>going to be running hot for a while.  Postulate that you have planets that
>>you can export an entire world's worth of grain consumption too (starting
>>colony, hi-pop worlds, etc) and I don't see that slowing much below 5% on a
>>much lower risk money environment.
>>
>I do. Check out the US stock market in the 1950s, for example. In any case,
>low interest rates are good for gaming, becuase if you can only get 1%
>clipping coupons, then speculative investments (like, say, your Third
>Cousin Alledon's Frontier Trader) get to be a much more justifiable
>investment.
>

        I'll have to mull that over.  Perhaps in an established Imperium,
but in my very young Terran Sphere, I don't know.  I suppose I could say
that the banks aren't passing out big returns becasue they are trying to
build up a crisis pot in case on of those big ship loans or "Colony Startup
Bonds" goes sour....

>>        Hi, Ian!
>>        Nope, it doesn't work....  JP2 cargoes only earn Cr1250/ ton,
>>meaning you loose KCr121 per month, or MCr1.46/year.  Cr750 + Cr500/jump is
>>a healthier balancing number for low tech ships.
>
>One of the concequences of technological development in Traveller is that
>transport costs go down. I dont know what the exact numbers are, but it is
>true as a trend.
>

        Hmmm...  canon reference for this, or is it a Mod?  I have been
thinking this would be the case, but nothing in anything I have read seems
to allow for it.  I might build a table or equation based on max TL vs area
TL giving PPT base.

>>        I agree.  The problem is that our PPT calculations at Cr750 +
>>Cr500/jump call for *perfect* conditions *every* trip.  One brawl that you
>>have to do significant repairs, even if you obliterate the corsair and his
>>two foolhardy associates, and you are in the red for the year.
>
>HG has those lovely 'Fuel Tanks Shattered' crits, doesnt it ... what are
>the odds of at least one of those corsairs being left for dead in the
>water, ready for boarding ? Adds insult to injury for the pirates when the
>freighter boards *them*, doesnt it ...

        Hmmm...   Interesting way to pay for repairs, what?  Drag a ~180MCr
Corsair in for sale as salvage and turn the crew over to collect any rewards.

>Seriously, a free market should eventually pitch freight rates at an
>appropriate level to compensate for risk. The alternatives would be
>freighter owners deciding to mothball their ships until things improved, or
>flee to a Safe of one sort or another, or face de facto nationalisation by
>worlds determined to hold the trade routes open at gunpoint.
        
        I think something between first and last.  Riskier areas cost more,
and you are more liable to have organized covoys protected by SDB's or
destroyers between the jump-point, gas giant and the main world;  convoy
protection paid for by the system that otherwise wouldn't see anything but
smugglers.

>>Paradoxically, this also means it runs greater risk of
>>taking expensive damage.  Again, YMMV, since I don't know how dangerous YTU
>>is.  In the Frontier, there is a 3/12 chance of a Corsair or Privateer at a
>>"B" class starport....  it gets somewhat worse at lesser ports.
>
>This is too high to be believable IMO, unless you are in the midst of a
>Civil War or similar. Give me a budget for our B starport, and I think I
>can make life uncomfortable for pirates in that system. Also, remember that
>historically piracy has been a sign of healthy trade and expanding economies.

        IMTU, the Frontier is a squabling ground between major corporations
trying to set up Colonies on choice worlds before The Other Corp does.  As a
result, much "piracy" is in fact "Privateering", complete with ships being
paid by the ton of "kill".
        The Serpent-class ship I just posted to my website is a purpose
designed ship for exactly this purpose...  the plasma guns in the nose
generally leave very little to board and plunder...
        Now, no Serpent crew in thier right mind would pick a fight with our
National....  6 crits per hit from the missle bay?  OOOOOOOOuch!  Then
again, the Serpent is Agility 5...

>The next question is what percentage of those pirates are hard enough to
>take on a National class ? Piracy is a business, and I can see a big
>downside in tangling with something like a National ...

       See above comments =).  Again, IMTU, since the Terran Sphere is very
young (85 years since jump technology went public), ship sizes are *small*
compared to the Imperium.  The UN-Deep Space Navy's pride and joy is the
"County"-class striker carrier at a whooping 1200 dtons, packing more
firepower than any three patrol cruisers and an unbelieveable 30 "Typhoon"
class fighters!
        You could hangar three of these in the cargo bay of the National.
        Now, in about 100 years, after the scheduled war is over and the
panic of trying to build bigger and better capital ships is over, we'll be
seeing the odd 100Kdton dreadnaught, and the odd 10Kdton merchant at the
Frontier.
        In the meantime, it is 200-ton frieghters, 300-ton escorts and
400-ton patrol cruisers and corsairs.  In short, MTU is the *perfect*
climate for smuggling and piracy/privateering.  There are no x-boats,
maximum jump is 2, starving under-defended colonies all over the Fronier,
and the Core a comfortable 3+ months away at maximum speed.  Local corporate
facility administrators being the un-monitored Top Dog over an entire star
system, save the odd review by an out-of-favor UN Political Officer and
visit by an UN-CMC Corp on "excercise".  Think Spanish Carribean, circa 1700's.

        Regards,
            Michel
        
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:19:13 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Jump 6 courier networks

Walter G. Smith writes:

>My point is, the best plan on a map isn't necessarily the best plan in the
>real world. Not every star system works out as a defendable, supportable,
>dependable location for a heavy-use communication system base, no matter
>how well placed.

Give me a little credit, Walt. I'm not talking about taking a dot map and
drawing six-parsec lines between sector capitals. What I am talking about
is just precisely to take a good look at the planets that ought to be able
to support defendable, dependable heavy-use communication bases and working
out a reasonable network from that. 

>Not every well-placed world has as much clout as a slightly less well-placed
>world will have.

Of course not. But that dosen't explain all the undefendable, undependable
systems in odd places that do have an X-boat link. Nor does it explain the
places where two systems, BOTH WITH X-BOAT STATIONS, lying less than four
parsecs from each other still don't have a link.

>Some worlds that are currently peaceful members of the Imperium were rough
>frontier worlds when the X-Boat link was built,

Fair enough.

>...and haven't been re-evaluated as a place to move the link to yet. A high-
>pop, vital world may have been undergoing a revolution or severe civil
>unrest (Amber/Red zone) when the route was laid, and missed the chance at
>hosting an X-Boat route.

A high-pop, vital world would rate a link for its own sake. How long does it
take to establish an X-boat link to a suitable world? Years to make the
decision, perhaps decades (though that is stretching my willing suspension
of disbelief to the breaking point). Certainly not a generation.

>Heck, there may even be natural causes - solar radiation that isn't
>dangerous to most starships, but makes communication too difficult
>for X-Boat ops?

The point is, just what is the purpose of the X-boat network? We're told
that the Imperium is straining under the communication lag and that the
X-boat network was concieved to relieve that strain. Granted that that may
not be the truth (IIRC it is in a Library Data entry and not in a piece of
Referee's information), can you come up with a believable explanation why
the central authorities wouldn't want as efficient a communication network
as possible? What possible gain can outweigh the risks involved in having
communication times be about twice what it could be? And if you say that
the authorities use an alternate net then the discussion becomes moot,
because then THAT net would be used for all vital information.
 
>I like to look at random rolls as idea seeds. Sure, I'll toss them when
>it suits me - but I like to at least look, and see what ideas they
>present. Instead of saying "That X-Boat link is stupid there", I say
>"that's odd. Why would that X-Boat link go that way instead of this?"

That's exactly what I do. I think that random generation is a splendid 
servant, but it makes a very poor master. In other words, by all means
start out by using random generation, but after that go over them and
reality-check them (well, consistency-check ;-).

However in the specific case of X-boat links, the question I ask myself
most often is "That's odd. Why is the communication time between those
two capitals twice the time it could be at half the cost?"

And when I can't come up with an explanation, THEN I toss it.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 14:32:45 +0000 (GMT)
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Ian or Katts wrote:

> If Sufficiently Important People think it is, then we get cargos tracked,
> backtracked and so on.
> 
> If not, then business as usual.
> 
> Of course, if the Imperium makes certain drugs illegal, then we can toss
> all that logic out the window. Me, I say they dont care.

Psi Drug ?

> 
> Ian Whitchurch

Ewan

	Ewan Quibell
	Data Communications Technician        The Game's afoot:
	Computer Centre                       Follow your spirit, and apon
	University of Brighton                  this charge
                                              Cry 'God for Harry, England,
	E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              and Saint George !'

                                                    Henry V 3:1
	#include<stddisclamer.h>                    W. Shakespeare

	My spelling is entierly due to dyslexia, typoes and poetic license

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:31:25 -0500
From: "Paul Schirf" <pc@PerkWorks.com>
Subject: Developing a new ship

I'm looking for someone to develop HG and other details 
of a new ship, which I will reflect in deckplans and post on 
my site.  I have an exterior hull configuration drawn.  It's a 
Close Structure, and, based on exterior appearance, 
could have a large communications dish, or 1 (or 2) 100-ton 
weapon bays (of different types if two exist).  .  I prefer it to 
have jump capability, but it does not appear to have 
massive drive areas (although looks can be deceiving).  
With minor adjustments to length I can make it displace 
anywhere from 2000 to 2500-tons.  Anyone want to help me?

Paul Schirf
Paul@Schirf.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:44:02 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Jump-6 courier network

Gary (TravelrTNE@aol.com) writes:

>Actually, here's an interesting TNS entry from Challenge 30...
> 
>REGINA/REGINA (0310-A788899-A) Date: 330-1116 
> 
>   The ducal household today announced that Duke Norris of Regina will travel
>to Rhylanor to meet with representatives from several key worlds in the
>Spinward Marches and Deneb sectors. The conference is scheduled to cover
>"economic matters", a general term used when the agenda has not been made
>public. The exact nature of the meeting has not been disclosed.
>   In related matters, a rumor that the Duke has recently received a private
>communication from Emperor Strephon has not been confirmed by official
>sources. 
> 
>10 days later, the Ducal household acknowledges Strephon raising Norris to
>Archduke.  It's far more likely, IMO, that there was a high level meeting over
>"what to do" and that Duchess Delphine, etc etc all had a mean debate that
>settled w/ Norris being elevated rather than Norris alone getting the info.
>This seems to be a setup for just a theory.  It's a good bet the regional
>megacorp exec's were there.

I agree. Especially when you consider that even if Norris had been the sole
reciever of the advance notice (which, as I said, is an assumption I don't
agree with), then the Domain would get the news eventually and anyone who
knew about the existence of secret couriers would be able to count backwards
and figure out that exactly what Norris' had done. 

>>... the TAS newsbriefs that tells of the newfangled drop tanks
>>also mention that plans were being made to upgrade the X-boat network to
>>jump-6, at least along the major links, using drop tanks.
> 
>It wouldn't be a real Jump 6 network.  It would still take at least two jumps
>(and therefore double duration). 

I don't quite follow you. Some nodes lies exactly four parsecs apart and
would not benefit from increased jumps, but others lie six parsecs apart,
necessitating two jumps-4 (Two jumps-3, actually. I'm not at all sure that
economics of scale and the convenience of sticking to one model only would
outweigh the saving of having special lower-jump X-boats for shorter links,
but I'm not prepared to argue the point. Anyway, that's by the way.) which
could be replaced by one jump-6. But the real saving lies in the primary
distribution runs, the 'core-to-border' runs.

>>>This insures that the Court is the first to know, and that the Imperial
>>>Megacorp gets that litte edge that keeps it ahead of everybody else.
>> 
>>First, that's 16 different organisations right there: The Imperial
>>Bureaucracy, the Imperial Navy (both canonical), and 14 Megacorporate
> 
>Isn't it 13 (Imperial) Megacorps?

Yes, I think you're right.

>And isn't the TJ the *Emperor's* private courier network, not that of the
>Imperial bureaucracy in general, no? Or is there another?

No, that's right. But that begs the question. If the Imperial Bureaucracy
uses the X-boat network, why is the X-boats not optimized? That's sort of
like hamstringing THEMSELVES. If the X-boats are purely civilian traffic,
you could justify the IB screwing with it to get that precious advantage
(maybe), but then there would be an official IB network too, wouldn't there?
Either that or they use the IN network, which comes to the same thing.

>Still that's a nit, 15 canonical organizations...  Course, the
>Imperial Household has a piece in all of them, which just coincidentally
>supports the theory of the Iridium Throne keeping J6, at least, controlled...

Having 2% of the stock in a company is not the same as controlling it.
 
>There is no canonical mention of any restrictions on a J6 private network,
>though, is there?

None that I can recall.

>Could the Imperium outlaw J5 and J6 drives for non-commercial uses (w/o
>special permission/permit, etc) w/o violating canon?

I'd say that depends on how controlling you think the canon makes the
Imperium ;-).

>For that matter, were jump drives regulated at all?  There were annual
>maintenance and licensing... perhaps it's never granted to large quantities
>of J5 and J6 ownership w/o the Imperial Household having a piece of the
>action?

One of the characteristics of a megacorporation is that it is too large
for the central management to excersise much control of the regional
managers. The Imperial Family may have a piece of the action, but I doubt
that they would have control.
 

      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1181
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Monday, November 23 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1182



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: A federal Imperium
Alien Generater
GT: Ship Design Question
RE: Smuggling
Re: Smuggling
Re: meters
Re: Languages in Traveller
re: Smuggling
Re: Developing a new ship
Re: meters
Deca-class freighters
Re: Stellar Diamiter
Re: Teleportation
Someone looking for Paul Hume?
Re: Stellar Diamiter
Re: Traveller Languages
Re: Stellar Diamiter
Re: Looking for Sector info
Re: Re Teleportation
Re: Mass combat system for Traveller

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:51:57 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: A federal Imperium

Steven Hudson writes:

>  Either worlds representatives are powerless due to a requirement for
>their constituencies to approve all their actions, or federal powers
>are restricted to very little (probably less in theory than the current
>Imperial system), or those representatives can bind their worlds to the
>agreements they make in their name - which latter makes both planetary
>sovereignty and local responsible government somewhat problematic.

I disagree with the last bit. Historically ambassadors and envoys were
endowed with plenipotentiary powers precisely because of that problem
(communication lag) and their respective countries managed to retain
their sovereignty.

Of course, they reneged on their treaties all the times, but that problem
IMO arose from the nature of sovereign power rather than the deficiencies
of the treaty-making process.

Come to that, individuals who let their lawyers work out a deal is in much
the same position.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:54:14 -0500
From: "Bob Sanders" <bsanders@amghome.com>
Subject: Alien Generater

I need some help!

Does anyone know of a resource that helps you generate alien races?...  a
basic model, frame work, working notes, etc.

Thanks

Bob

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:22:47 -0500
From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
Subject: GT: Ship Design Question

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:58:38 -1000
From: Craig Barnett <craig_barnett@iname.com>
Subject: GT: Ship Design Question
As I see it, turrets and bays are assigned in one step of the process
with each turret and bay having their own space, mass and cost (ie, 1
space for turrets, 20 spaces for bays, etc). Individual weapons are
added in a later step, and have their own space requirements, mass and
cost (ie, 1 space for each laser in a turret, 50 spaces for a bay, etc).
How does this work?  Up to three weapons are supposed to fit in a
turret, so how can three 1 space lasers fit into a 1 space turret? Or a
50 space bay weapon into a 20 space bay? Are these figures for turrets,
bays and weapons inclusive (say, 1 space for the turret and it's
associated bits and pieces, + 1 additional space for each extra weapon
in the turret), or is there something I'm missing?
******************
The turrets and bays are external to the ship. the one space is rotation
space for the turret and a gunner station.  The turret takes up one space
inside the ship, and would provide 3 spaces outside the ship.  The bay
works the same way.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:21:09 -0500
From: Daniel Mendyke <Daniel.Mendyke@digital.com>
Subject: RE: Smuggling

	>>From: Daniel Mendyke <Daniel.Mendyke@digital.com>
	>>Subject: RE: Smuggling
	>>
	>>The British were doing just that to colonial merchant ships 
	>>just before the revolution.  John Handcock lost more than
	>>a few ships to 'faulty' paperwork.  This is one reason why
	>
	><quote deleted for brevity>
	>
	>>
	>>was added to the constitution as the an amendment.
	>
	>Cool. You dont have these legal rights in the Imperium. However,
there are
	>structures in the Imperium that will limit over-enthusiasm by
bureaucrats,
	>notably Amber Zoning by TAS.
	>
	>Ian Whitchurch

Very good point about TAS.  And it's interesting to note that TAS is
a 'private' organization, not part of the government.  (Note that in 
the American revolution it was the 'private organizations' that first
responded to British atrocities!)

However, TAS can only remain a somewhat effective defense 
against unreasonable search and confiscation only as long as 
the Imperium allows free speech.

- -Daniel

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:24:14 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

At 12:33 AM 23/11/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
>>Subject: Re: Smuggling
>...
>>>  Both the ship and personnel will have their identities changed reliably?
>>
>>Maybe (it is the approach that first comes to mind, though
>>maybe you can just bop out of the Imperium and sell the
>>ship and get a new one, but it would probably just be easier
>>to change).
>
>  How does one reliably deceive an ID system that incorporates
>a full genetic work-up, within the constraints of known Trav tech?

        R.Talsorian Games' CYBERPUNK uses a retorvirus that simply tiners
with your DNA's "look" to a matching system.  No harm done (3% of cancer),
but to a DNA pattern match, two different people.  Voila.  This is
postulated 2020 technology.
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:16:32 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: meters

Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com writes:
>That's a 10% discrepancy. Intolerable to an iron-ringed gearhead :-)
>Seriously, I was assuming that it would just be a matter of changing the
>overlay grid.
>**************
>you can just alter the height for the deck as well to compensate.

Huh? How will altering the deck height chance a problem with distances?

I was commenting on the problem of a 1-yard grid, and the fact my group
didn't like converting yards to metres, and didn't like the 10% slop in
saying "1 yard = 1 metre". I figured that if the artist was willing to
overlay a different grid that would solve the problem. (Yes, we'd rather
have corridor walls in the middle of a square/hex than have the length of
the hull calculated wrong. Like I said, iron-ringed gearheads.)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 08:31:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Cook <markc@peak.org>
Subject: Re: Languages in Traveller

Bill Hostman <aramis@gci.net> writes:

> Gveh is one of several related languages of the Gvurrdon area.

For a different look at a Varg'r language, check out the "Language
in the TML PBeM" web-page at http://www.ssgfx.com/traveller/language/.
You'll find a lexicon for Vuakedh, a Varg'r Irilitok tongue widely
used in the Domain of Antares and the Julian Protectorate.

        - Mark C.
          Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy
          EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75
          Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR
          NRA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)
          Front Sight First Family member #1

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 mark f. cook * mark cook consulting *  shoestring graphics & printing
 2055 s.w. whiteside dr. * corvallis, or, 97333-1406 * markc@ssgfx.com
 Phone: 541-753-2732      Fax: 541-753-2738       http://www.ssgfx.com
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    > I believe that "decimation" originated with the Roman legions.

    Of course it originated with the Romans! Who else would _need_
    a word that means "kill every tenth person"?  - Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:25:56 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Smuggling

Michel Vaillancourt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
        R.Talsorian Games' CYBERPUNK uses a retorvirus that simply tiners
with your DNA's "look" to a matching system.  No harm done (3% of cancer),
but to a DNA pattern match, two different people.  Voila.  This is
postulated 2020 technology.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Interesting. Genetic engineering biotech advances are canon (especially
the Solomani species uplift projects) in the OTU, but live-person 
gengineering is not usually mentioned. It may be that the OTU places 
gengineering a mature, living being into the realm of nanotechnology, 
which is tech level 16+ (beyond normal Imperial maximums), perhaps
due to some currently unknown law of quantum physics.

An aside: _Barlowe's Guide to Extraterrestrials_ has a species known
as the Dextrans, from a book I haven't found yet (_Right hand of Dextra_?).
These giant plant-like beings are very intelligent, telepathic, and telekinetic.
One of their tricks is to put a living being into one of their large leaves,
dump some kind of lif-support liquid over them, and then use a combination
of liquid secretions and telekinesis to change the creature at will (or even 
at whim). Physical changes, genetic changes, whatever the Dextran had
in mind - and of course, the Dextrans would have very alien minds to get
"improvement" ideas from. I'd like to read the book to see what these
critters had in mind, or what their other attitudes were - I'd hate it if such
an interesting species idea ended up with some cliche humanesque
psychology.

If the 3i discovered these beings, would they sterilize the planet or
just red-zone it?

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:30:24 -0500
From: "Paul Schirf" <pc@PerkWorks.com>
Subject: Re: Developing a new ship

>        I'd love to help  Let me know what you want and 
> I can whip it off my assembly line of spreadsheets in 
> about an hour.

What I'm looking for is a viable design.  The hull shape
doesn't suggest specific needs other than the ones I 
posted.  It's been so long since I played, however, that
I don't recall if it makes tactical or EP sense to put a 
100 ton Meson or Particle Accelerator Bay and/or
a repulsor bay on a 2000-2400 ton low jump & slow
maneuvering ship.  If it does, then do so... Otherwise
just make it a design you think would make sense.

btw: The hull shape is modeled after a bathtub water-
works toy enjoyed by a 2 year old who eats my food,
wrecks my living room, and keeps me up at night.

Paul Schirf

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:40:54 -0800
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: meters

Rob Prior wrote:

> Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com writes:
> >That's a 10% discrepancy. Intolerable to an iron-ringed gearhead :-)
> >Seriously, I was assuming that it would just be a matter of changing the
> >overlay grid.
> >**************
> >you can just alter the height for the deck as well to compensate.
>
> Huh? How will altering the deck height chance a problem with distances?
>
> I was commenting on the problem of a 1-yard grid, and the fact my group
> didn't like converting yards to metres, and didn't like the 10% slop in
> saying "1 yard = 1 metre". I figured that if the artist was willing to
> overlay a different grid that would solve the problem. (Yes, we'd rather
> have corridor walls in the middle of a square/hex than have the length of
> the hull calculated wrong. Like I said, iron-ringed gearheads.)

Why don't you use 5'/1.5 meter grids? I thinks that's 3% slop or so

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:57:37 -0500
From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
Subject: Deca-class freighters

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 16:53:27
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Deca-class freighters
Couple of comments first.
First, there is this rumour that ship costs have gone down in G:T. They
havent - the fact you dont have to buy a power plant is compensated for by
the fact you do have to pay for fuel tankage (and serious money, too). You
seem to need more maneuver drives under G:T as well.
**************8
the costs on some of the ships have gone down.  A free trader for example
is only 27MCr.  Fuel tankage can add up, and more manuver dirves are needed
because you need to provide thrust for the mass of the ship ratehr than the
volume.



Secondly, streamlining is vicious in G:T, at 20% of total volume, no
discounts. Unless this has been errata'd, I would argue it should be a 20%
increase in surface area (in effect, a 20% loss of DR), with no effect on
volume as such. Volume is only really a concept that applies in jump space,
and jump space doesnt care what shape you are, just how much volume you
take up.
************
What is actualy is is a 25% increase in surface area, with the effect of
taking up more room in a spacedock and having to extend the jump feild to
cover the streamlined shape.




OK, now the GT Decafreighter (GTL 10).

Hull : 170 t, MCr 8.5
20 000t armour : 20 000t, MCr 60 <DR 2353>
*************
Way too much DR, the 'min' for the ships is 100, this a DR I would expect
on a warship. DR of 2100 is enough to stop average damage from a TL10
Laser.






Command Bridge : 2 dt, 20.3t, MCr 9.6
Basic Bridge : 2.5 dt, 8.6 t, MCr 4
**************8
two bridges make it a viable auxillary.



Utility : 1 dt, 11.5 t, MCr 0.3
**********8
20 of these are needed to provide for the entire ship. They are of real use
in the cargo bay as they prevent shifiting of cargo.


PAW Bay : 50 dt, 467t, MCr 22.9
10 Triple Lasers : 10 dt, 319t, MCr 20.4
*************
consider traading the PA bay for 10 triple sandcaster turrets, very helpful
in PD.

Also consider heavy compartmentalization.



Crew is : 52 - 8 Command, 22 Maneuver, 8 Jump, 2 Missile, 2 PAW, 10
Lasers/Stewards. 8 single staterooms, 22 double staterooms. 120 passengers.
*************8
I get (Assuming 8 command are Captain, 1st O, 2 Pilots, 2 Sensor and 2
commo) 27 Engineering, 13 gunners (PAW needs only one) for 4 single
(Captain, 1st O, Cheif Engineer, and Head Steward/Gunner) and 22 double.
You can add 8 Steward/Cargo, and keep the passengers the same.

Remember that you can carry 240 middle passangers instead fo high.


Reworking the stats with my suggestions gives

<B>DecaFreighter<B>
Crew: Captain (Leadership, Tactics), 1st Officer (Leadership, Tactics), 2
Pilots (Pilot Starship),  2 Navigators (Astrogation), 2 Sensor (Electronics
Operation [Sensors]), 2 Communications (Electronics Operation [Commo]), 27
Engineering (Engineering, Mechanic), 22 Steward/Gunners (Gunner [Beam or
Missile]). for 5 single (Captain, 1st O, 2ed O. [either a navigator or a
pilot] Cheif Engineer, and Head Steward/Gunner) and 27 double. 120 High
Passengers.

10,000 Space Hull, 100DR, Heavy Compartmentalisation, Command Bridge, Basic
Bridge, Engineering, 1,100 Manuver, 200 Jump, 1,000 Fuel, LowBerth, 152
Staterooms, 2 SickBay, 20 Utility, 20 Turrets, Weapons Bay 30 Lasers, 30
Sandcasters, Missile Bay, 7,031 Cargo.

Statistics:  EMass 8712.4, LMass 43867.4, Cost 1,040.816MCr, HP 255,000.

Performance: Accel 1.00 Gs, Jump 1, Air Speed USL, Size Modifier +12.

This Model is faster in system, and has much better defenses against
missiles. Price is a tad lower, but the crew is a bit higher so that should
ballance out. (4.34 MCr/month)










Now, if you rip 1000 dton of cargo, 100 dton of maneuver you can take it up
to jump-2 by adding 100 dton of Jump and 1000 dton of JFuel. Mass is
60060t, cost is MCr 1539. Crew goes up by a net 2 (lose 2 maneuver techs,
gain 4 Jump techs). A payment is MCr 6.41 a month, so it looks like it is
viable at around CR 600/Cr 4000 net. The ship still pulls about 2/3rds of a
gee.
**************8
Mass 40,227.4 Cost 1,495MCr Engineering crew is 29 (net +2) Accel is 0.99
Gs Payment is 6.23 MCr/month.


If you go for jump-3, you get 1900 dton less of cargo, 300 dtons less of
maneuver, 200 dtons more of jump, 2000 dtons more of Jump fuel, for a net
mass of 56 580t, a net cost of MCr 1983. The smaller M-drive means the ship
pulls 0.55 gees, and the crew is 54 (eight more jump techs, 6 less maneuver
techs).
A payment in this case is MCr 8.27, so it looks to be viable at about Cr
850 for cargo, net Cr 6000 for passengers.
***************
with 900 MDrive and cargo of 5031, it pulls 0.98Gs  31 engineering crew
(net +4) Mass is 36,587.4 cost is 1,949MCr Payment is 8.12MCr



Hrm.... If we drop the accell to 0.5 Gs ....

with 480 MDrive and cargo of 5451, it pulls 0.52Gs  24 engineering crew
(net -3) Mass is 37,259.4 cost is 1,882MCr, Payment is 7.84MCr



I bet we can make the original J1 ship really cheap by cutting to 0.5 G....
with 600 MDrive and cargo of 7531, it pulls 0.54Gs  18 engineering crew
(net -9) Mass is 44,667.4 cost is 961MCr, Payment is 4MCr

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:55:01 +0100
From: "Mark Seemann" <dko3835@vip.cybercity.dk>
Subject: Re: Stellar Diamiter

Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:38:17 +0000 (GMT) Ewan Quibell wrote:

>I've had a quick look through WBH and have found the Stellar mass tables,
>but could not find anything for Stellar Diamiter.
>
>Did I miss something ? If not is there any way to generate, or gage
>stellar diamiter from Stellar mass or stellar type ?


The Stellar Diameter tables were for some reason left out of WBH. However, they can be found in CT Book 6: Scouts, p. 45

Mark Seemann
mark@dk-online.dk (home)
mse@oticon.dk (work)
http://www2.dk-online.dk/users/mark_seemann

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:02:34 +0100
From: "Mark Seemann" <dko3835@vip.cybercity.dk>
Subject: Re: Teleportation

Sun, 22 Nov 1998 22:16:37 -0500 "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu> wrote:


>I spoke to a GM who ran this adventure, his PC's came up with an
>interesting defense. They knew from interrogating a captured Zho
>officer that a Zho commando detachment was on Garda-Vilis, the
>PC's figured that the optimum target was the Broadsword itself.
>
>The locals wondered why the Merc cruiser was sitting in port, hovering
>near the docking slip, spinning in circles like an oversize top.


Very nice. My players came up with another evil defense against
psi-teleporters. In this scenario, they knew basically were the teleporter
would teleport to, if at all, so they basically rigged the whole room with
metal sticks from floor to ceiling and very close.

This way, there was no way for a person to exist between the sticks inside the
room. A teleporter would have teleported into the sticks and met a messy end.
Luckily (hmm... I controlled her) for her, she incidentally chose another
action.

Off course, this defense renders the room in question useless until the defense
is removed again, but I still thought it was a neat idea, and it worked in this
scenario.

Mark Seemann
mark@dk-online.dk (home)
mse@oticon.dk (work)
http://www2.dk-online.dk/users/mark_seemann

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:28:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Someone looking for Paul Hume?

Last week or so, someone posted to the TML looking for Paul Hume's email
address.  If you still need it, please contact me via private email (I've
deleted the original post, so I don't recall who was asking).

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      "Ripple in still water, when there is no pebble tossed,
       nor wind to blow..."

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:51:46 +0000 (GMT)
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Stellar Diamiter

On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Mark Seemann wrote:

> Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:38:17 +0000 (GMT) Ewan Quibell wrote:
> 
> >I've had a quick look through WBH and have found the Stellar mass tables,
> >but could not find anything for Stellar Diamiter.
> >
> >Did I miss something ? If not is there any way to generate, or gage
> >stellar diamiter from Stellar mass or stellar type ?
> 
> 
> The Stellar Diameter tables were for some reason left out of WBH. However,
> they can be found in CT Book 6: Scouts, p. 45
> 
> Mark Seemann
> mark@dk-online.dk (home)
> mse@oticon.dk (work)
> http://www2.dk-online.dk/users/mark_seemann

Thank You ....

Ewan

	Ewan Quibell
	Data Communications Technician        The Game's afoot:
	Computer Centre                       Follow your spirit, and apon
	University of Brighton                  this charge
                                              Cry 'God for Harry, England,
	E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              and Saint George !'

                                                    Henry V 3:1
	#include<stddisclamer.h>                    W. Shakespeare

	My spelling is entierly due to dyslexia, typoes and poetic license

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:51:56 -0500
From: Brandon Quina <lore@tmgbbs.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Languages

> Depends on how you define "ready", but there's _lots_ of stuff
> available.  Traveller has always provided a fair amount of information
> on languages.  (Just a guess, but you came on board with GT, right?)

	Kinda.  I tryed running Traveller:  the New Era awhile ago,
but it didn't turn out very well.  I never ended up getting any
traveller books except the main 'New Era' book;  until G:T.


> Every alien module contained a system allowing you to generate words
> with a unique 'feel' - except Hivers, who use a gestural language.

	Ohhh :) Cool.  That helps alot, about the Hivers and their
gestural languages.  :)  Other than that, it seems like the aliens
have mainly one language per race;  something that I won't be using
in my game.  :)  Anyways, I'll probally post my language information
to the list before long.





- -- 
Brandon,

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 19:30:12 +0100
From: Guillem Plasencia <guillemp@ciberia.es>
Subject: Re: Stellar Diamiter

> From: Ewan
>
> I've had a quick look through WBH and have found the Stellar mass tables,
> but could not find anything for Stellar Diamiter.
>

Excuse my ignorance, what's WBH (world building what?)  ?

> Did I miss something ? If not is there any way to generate, or gage
> stellar diamiter from Stellar mass or stellar type ?

Yes, IIRC my astronomy course (i've read this things i'll post in a book i have now at
my hands, so it should be right), a star's luminosity is direct dependant of the
square of the radius and also of the fourth exponent of it's surface temperature.

L = k * (radius)^2 * (surface T)^4

where k is a constant (which i don't know).

The temperature is deduced from it's absortion/emision spectra lines, but a star
apparent bright we receive depends on it's real luminosity and the distance at which
it is...and this distance is not easily measured for far stars, and IIRC it may have
real great error, since distance estimations are build up on several assumptions,
which are also based on other suppositions...

Stars in the main sequence, that is, that burn hidrogen as the main energy source to
counteract gravity collapse, range from 1/10000 to 10000 solar luminosities, with
surface temperatures from 3000 kelvins to 30000 kelvins, Sol has about 5000 kelvins.

This is a table of stars type and their T in kelvins

type   T     solar mass   solar luminosity

O    30000
B    20000      10             44000
A    10000      2.3               23
F     8000
G     6000      1.1              1.4
K     4000
M     3000      0.1          0.00006

I've got a table (long) of nearby stars, with its parallax in arcsec (inverse of the
distance in parsecs of a star) and the aparent magnitude (with the distance data you
can calculate the absolute magnitude and then find the intrinsec luminosity) so if
you're interested, i can email you privately, with the calculations to do to find the
luminosity, and so you can have a way of finding the radius of those stars...

It's a long work to do, anyway, and as it interests me maybe i'll make it...but i've
no time these days.

Hope it helps.

Comments wellcomed.

- --
Guillem Plasencia
guillemp@ciberia.es

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:48:46 +0100
From: Guillem Plasencia <guillemp@ciberia.es>
Subject: Re: Looking for Sector info

> From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for information on the following sectors, Aldebaran, Neworld,
> Hanstone, Malorn, and Hadji. If any one has any information, especially in
> Galactic format, I'd be grateful if you'd contact me at the email address in
> the sig.
>
> Thanks

There is a Galactic program mailing list where people who work in sectors for galactic write their
projects. It's not so posts prolific as this is, it has passed a couple of months since i got the
last post, but you can ask there to get an answer.

To subscribe write to

majordomo@indiana.edu

and with empty subject, write in the body of the text

subscribe burdickd_galactic@indiana.edu

and remember not to include any of these signature file people attachs to the end of their posts.


I can tell you that, unless something has changed without me noticing it (wich it well could be),
that nobody has written a public file for Malorn sector for TNE in galactic, as i was the last who
asked to, but due to the features of my "ideal" sector, this was too close to imperium.

Hope it helps.


- --
Guillem Plasencia
guillemp@ciberia.es

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:36:16 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Re Teleportation

>IIRC psi shielding in later forms of Traveller blocks both Telepathy and
>Calairvoyance.  As I see it Zhodhani Teleporters could _theoretically_
>teleport into a psi shielded area but without a clear mental picture of
their destination (which they can't get without Clairvoyance) they may
>well end up dead if they try.

For example, un-occupied high-security areas could have a grid of wires - 
at ankle, waist,and head height - that retract into the walls as the crew
moves about. Serious bad news for anyone who teleports in...

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:20:00 +0100
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <greimann@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: Mass combat system for Traveller

At 10:58 21.11.98 +0000, you wrote:

>
>BITS has also started work on a development of FT for Traveller - the
>combat system has been modified to give a Traveller feel, and the ship
>construction system is being changed to match the Fleets Book version.
Hmm, i´v just started playing FT and am greatly enjoying it.
When will your book be published? I am already hungering for it!
Volker
- ---
Volker A. Greimann, greimann@geocities.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1182
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Monday, November 23 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1183



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Re Teleportation
Re: meters
Re: GT: Ship Design Question
re: GT: Ship Design Question
MS FrontPage Themes
Re: GT: Ship Design Question
Re: GT: Ship Design Question
Re: Shivva Bridge / Fighters / Jump Drives
Re: Jump-6 courier network
Re: Smuggling
re: Defenses against teleporters
Re: Capital Ships and Space Opera (Alternity?)
Re: Defenses against teleporters
Re: Smuggling
Re: Defenses against teleporters
Re: Smuggling
Re: Smuggling
Re: First Contact future history
Re: II Re: Smuggling
Re: Defenses against teleporters
Re: Jump-6 courier networks

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:06:34 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Re Teleportation

Bruce Alan Macintosh wrote:
> 
> >IIRC psi shielding in later forms of Traveller blocks both Telepathy and
> >Calairvoyance.  As I see it Zhodhani Teleporters could _theoretically_
> >teleport into a psi shielded area but without a clear mental picture of
> their destination (which they can't get without Clairvoyance) they may
> >well end up dead if they try.
> 
> For example, un-occupied high-security areas could have a grid of wires -
> at ankle, waist,and head height - that retract into the walls as the crew
> moves about. Serious bad news for anyone who teleports in...
> 
> Bruce

Automated lasers that track and shoot anyone in the room who _didn't_
come in through the door (using their keycard, of course). 

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 14:33:33 -0500
From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
Subject: Re: meters

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:16:32 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: meters
Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com writes:
>That's a 10% discrepancy. Intolerable to an iron-ringed gearhead :-)
>Seriously, I was assuming that it would just be a matter of changing the
>overlay grid.
>**************
>you can just alter the height for the deck as well to compensate.
Huh? How will altering the deck height chance a problem with distances?
*****************
if you make the height of each deck less. changing it from 2.77m to 2.36m
then the volume of the ship is the same and the yard wide hexes are now
meter wide hexes.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 14:28:36 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: GT: Ship Design Question

In a message dated 11/23/98 7:14:48 AM Pacific Standard Time,
Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com writes:

<< ******************
 The turrets and bays are external to the ship. the one space is rotation
 space for the turret and a gunner station.  The turret takes up one space
 inside the ship, and would provide 3 spaces outside the ship.  The bay
 works the same way.
  >>

Personally, I think the 20 space bay is a typo. The numbers look like they are
trying to stay consistent with CT bk 2 and HG; ie 1 displacement ton for a
turret hardpoint (with room for three weapons), and 50 displacement tons for a
bay. 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:33:22 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: GT: Ship Design Question

>The turrets and bays are external to the ship. the one space is rotation
>space for the turret and a gunner station.  The turret takes up one space
>inside the ship, and would provide 3 spaces outside the ship.  The bay
>works the same way.

OK, but (a) how do you armour the turrets/bays? Presumably using the volume
of the weapons they contain, but that's not clear.

(b), more importantly - how do you calculate jump drive/fuel? After all,
that's the single most important thing volume is used for (since maneuver
performance in G:T is mass-based.) A ship with "full" turrets and/or bays
could be about 3% bigger in total volume than its basic hull size indicates - 
so its jump drive will be 3% undersized (and its jump fuel.) Admittedly,
this sounds trivial (although for a thousand-ton jump-six ship it would
be 18 tons, which isn't negligible) but it's ambiguous; and it could be much,
much, much more of a problem for people who do G:V designs and have bigger
bays and/or ignore the hardpoint limit.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:37:04 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us>
Subject: MS FrontPage Themes

Fellow Sophonts,

I am currently hard at work on a new Traveller site dedicated to the 
Project: StarRise campaign.  Last year, I converted to 
the use of MicroSoft's FrontPage 97 (now 98), and really enjoy using 
it.  I've also recently located the Software Developer's Kit which 
allows me to design my own themes for the website, and I came up with 
an idea for developing a Traveller theme for the new site.  Since my 
artistic abilities are not the greatest, and I want to avoid 
reinventing the wheel, I wanted to ask a few obvious questions before 
I started on this project:

1)  Has someone already developed a Traveller or Science-Fiction 
theme for MS FrontPage that I could use?

2)  If so, where could I get ahold of it?

3)  If not, is anyone else with more artistic talent interested in 
pursuing this?

Please send me e-mail privately, as I do not want to take away from 
the excellent discussions of this List.

Thank you very much,
Jason
============================
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer I
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375

Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:39:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: GT: Ship Design Question

Sethkimmel@aol.com writes:

> Personally, I think the 20 space bay is a typo. The numbers look like they
> are trying to stay consistent with CT bk 2 and HG; ie 1 displacement ton
> for a turret hardpoint (with room for three weapons), and 50 displacement
> tons for a bay. 

Actually, it almost certainly is a typo -- it probably should be 10 (rotation
space for a 25,000 cf full-rotation turret).  Note that you can, if you wish,
install bays _internally_ to a ship, in which case you don't need to armor them
separately -- however, this hurts their field of view.  I did it with the
missile bays on the azhanti high lightning, since direction of fire really
doesn't matter all that much for the type of missiles available in GT.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:42:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: GT: Ship Design Question

Bruce Alan Macintosh writes:
> 
> >The turrets and bays are external to the ship. the one space is rotation
> >space for the turret and a gunner station.  The turret takes up one space
> >inside the ship, and would provide 3 spaces outside the ship.  The bay
> >works the same way.
> 
> OK, but (a) how do you armour the turrets/bays? Presumably using the volume
> of the weapons they contain, but that's not clear.

You armor it based on the area of the turret/bay, which is 800 for the turret,
6500 for the bay.  This seemed relatively clear (and they did address in the
text having a different armor level for the body and the turrets).
> 
> (b), more importantly - how do you calculate jump drive/fuel? After all,
> that's the single most important thing volume is used for (since maneuver
> performance in G:T is mass-based.) A ship with "full" turrets and/or bays
> could be about 3% bigger in total volume than its basic hull size indicates
> -  so its jump drive will be 3% undersized (and its jump fuel.)
> Admittedly, this sounds trivial (although for a thousand-ton jump-six ship
> it would be 18 tons, which isn't negligible) but it's ambiguous; and it
> could be much, much, much more of a problem for people who do G:V designs
> and have bigger bays and/or ignore the hardpoint limit.

That one is a problem, I chose to assume that jump-drives can actually exceed
computed performance by about 5%.  

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 14:49:27 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Shivva Bridge / Fighters / Jump Drives

> > We shouldn't.   The Zhos at TL-14 should be using X-ray lasers (either grav
> > focused or no), which actually facilitates *smaller* turrets.  When I designed
> > my Hiver capital ships, i used ROF 200, 144 Mj Grav Focused Xray laser turrets
> > (on a 3dt turret assumption).  I then tinkered w/ the size of the focal array
> > (shrinking it) and got the volume down to 36m3 w/ optimum damage performance
> > out to 80 BL/BR hexes.
> 
> Wouldn't the hivers want even bigger turrets just so they could get
> in there and fix stuff? That's the level I'm talking about in some

Well for MTU, i only use Hivers for command crew (and not even all of them).
The rest is various member races of the Federation (there are supposed to be
170... wow), who are a bit more agile.  Even so, I had their turrets remote
controlled (usually in batteries) via MFD, though they still require
maintenance.  I've intended to make a couple more, but never got around to it.
Maybe i should put that on the queue. ; )

> ways. Figuring out what a given alien would take as a baseline
> assumption. What kinda room do they need to be able to do damage
> control? Do they care?

Yeah, things like that would be a factor, but in general, most of the
Traveller races fit in a relatively hominid mode (not as bad as ST or even B5
after the 1st season (when they stopped using the Mantis guy, etc)), excepting
the K'kree and Hivers (and Droyne, to an extent), and Traveller hasn't touched
on this before.  

There would be design philosophies according to powers & species, but this
would vary more by the particulars rather than generalities IMO.  Excepting
abberations like the K'kree, and their requirements of quite large ships, of
course. : )

> yeah. But another thing to consider is your enemy. At TL14 or less,
> the Zhos need to figure out how they will typically fight a TL15
> enemy. Maybe they decide to forgo small turret weapons altogether,
> and even their small ships have weapons with maximum DE for the TL
> (assuming the TL*50 DE cap in FFS). They might have fewer weapons
> per ship, or lower ROFs, but they can do more damage if they do hit.

All interesting concepts.  In a PE game I reffed for my group (i started them
all at TL9 in a single sector), they went from scratch... i worked out a tech
advancement system (all the alternate tech from FF&S available too) based
roughly on an in-depth analysis of the computer game, Ascendancy.  Battles
were run using Battle Rider (on this large hex mat i bought... took nearly a
month to complete a *massive* battle at one races homeworld).   They're not
Traveller grognards, though, so it was interesting watching them try out all
kinds of concepts, so I can shed whole wads of experience on things like
fighters etc.  The best player got to like TL-11, though none of them had
really used the Battle Rider concept, though i was trying to hint on that and
other things.  In fact, I had jump drive the most readily acquired so few of
them kept an active r&d program beyond improving efficiency of their existing
tech.   It was fun, but it petered out as we were growing increasingly
disatisfied w/ PE.

I've already thought of alot of alterations to the tech program, in particular
(making things more open-ended, especially in regards to the alternate tech, i
was relatively new and inexperienced w/ Traveller and BL/BR especially, at the
time)... maybe it's time to start up another w/ a new batch of players... PE
needs some fixes though (some major), as it becomes quite unplayable (at least
unenjoyable)...

Hey, Jim V?  Does this sound interesting for the IEGG? ; )  

Btw, fighters are quite effective in BR as point defense and missle delivery
platforms.  In large numbers, they *can* affect large capital ships (and/or at
least their tactics... you see that task force/squadron of 50dt fighters
(especially when unidentifyed) let out a few vollies of bogeys (missles) and
you get concerned pretty quick)).  Dummy task forces can play hell w/ the
minds of other players, too. : )

One of the things I most like about BL/BR is that it wasn't designed top-down,
but bottom-up.  There is no inherent "right way" to fight the battles.
Certain things are common-sense (pd, good acceleration, fuel endurance, etc
etc), but the rest is pretty much open ended and depends more on the
particulars of the enemy design.  This is really cool IMO because it would
mean that design theories and styles would alter in response to each other
even considering teh crawl that tech level advancement becomes.

> It is cool because if you can rationalize such a thing it makes
> aliens a little more alien. Hell, psychology might play a role in
> weapon standards. Tradition as well. Adds a nice flavor, IMO.

I'd agree.


Gary

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 14:50:04 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Jump-6 courier network

> >>... the TAS newsbriefs that tells of the newfangled drop tanks
> >>also mention that plans were being made to upgrade the X-boat network to
> >>jump-6, at least along the major links, using drop tanks.
> >
> >It wouldn't be a real Jump 6 network.  It would still take at least two
jumps
> >(and therefore double duration).
> 
> I don't quite follow you. Some nodes lies exactly four parsecs apart and

Yes, the J4/drop tank Xboats get 6 parsec range but the J6 couriers (TJ and
naval) would still have an advantage in time, so i don't think having a
J4/drop-tank growing xboat network would be disagreeable to keeping the J4
Xboats as a control system.  As was mentioned somewhere else, they would
beging building droptank equipped xboats (almost certainly those that could be
still picked up by the old xboat tender).  Militaries (especially the big
ones) are notoriously thrifty.  If these new xboats would require new tenders,
they'd be that much more difficult to ever be approved.

> >And isn't the TJ the *Emperor's* private courier network, not that of the
> >Imperial bureaucracy in general, no? Or is there another?
> 
> No, that's right. But that begs the question. If the Imperial Bureaucracy
> uses the X-boat network, why is the X-boats not optimized? That's sort of
> like hamstringing THEMSELVES. If the X-boats are purely civilian traffic,
> you could justify the IB screwing with it to get that precious advantage
> (maybe), but then there would be an official IB network too, wouldn't there?
> Either that or they use the IN network, which comes to the same thing.

Eneri the Bureaucrat probably has brought it up and the Emperor's man has told
him to sit down and shut up. : )  Seriously, the X-boat system in 1100 (if not
for the previous century) is a control system.  It's desirable for the Emperor
to be able to have an information advantage over his subordinate nobles *and*
over the bureacracy, as well (keeps them from coordinating a junta or coup).
I'm sure Arballatra might have agreed, after the First Civil War.  Otherwise,
wouldn't the Xboat system have started as a J5 system instead of J4?  Was
Arballatra keeping J5 for her private courier network or was the cost really
to high to justify it?  Wouldn't the burueacracy have wanted a J5 system?
Maybe the Empress' man told em to sit down and shut up? : )

> >Still that's a nit, 15 canonical organizations...  Course, the
> >Imperial Household has a piece in all of them, which just coincidentally
> >supports the theory of the Iridium Throne keeping J6, at least,
controlled...
> 
> Having 2% of the stock in a company is not the same as controlling it.

No, but the Emperor could (and would IMO) most likely know (or find out) what
any of the Megacorps are up to, at any time.  And Bad Times will befall any
megacorp that ignores the Emperors wishes (and he finds out about it).
Anything that's possibly a threat to the Iridium Throne would be controlled,
or at least very closely watched, after the First Civil War.  More tight, at
first, then loosening (possibly alot under Strephon, given his attitudes in
other areas).

> >Could the Imperium outlaw J5 and J6 drives for non-commercial uses (w/o
> >special permission/permit, etc) w/o violating canon?
> 
> I'd say that depends on how controlling you think the canon makes the
> Imperium ;-).

heh.  I don't know of any canon that would make J5 and J6 heavily regulated
uncanonical.  Megacorps (and anyone w/ any sort of power or influence) could
well get exceptions, but Joe Trader or Citizen Eneri?

> >For that matter, were jump drives regulated at all?  There were annual
> >maintenance and licensing... perhaps it's never granted to large quantities
> >of J5 and J6 ownership w/o the Imperial Household having a piece of the
> >action?
> 
> One of the characteristics of a megacorporation is that it is too large
> for the central management to excersise much control of the regional
> managers. The Imperial Family may have a piece of the action, but I doubt
> that they would have control.

The megacorps wouldn't be their stooges or toadies.  That's not what i'm implying.   
If they should do anything to threaten the Imperium or the control network in place,
though, The Emperor could and would shut them down.  Having ownership just lets
the Emperor put his own men and intelligence apparatus in there to tell him
things he wants to know (as well as the credits<g>).  IMO, The Imperium would
acquiesced to the megacorps having J6 courier networks, but only if they
weren't used to circumvent the control network that is the Xboat network.  The
enforcement of this would be the biggie, as well as the interpretation of what
an individual Emperor (and/or his agents) finds to be "threatening."


Gary

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:29:16 EST
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Smuggling

In a message dated 11/21/98 13:32:35 PM Pacific Standard Time,
tommy.grav@astro.uio.no writes:

<< I simply think that the Court wants to keep this available only to
themself.
 The x-boat network is kept at a jump-4 level through regulations so that 
 the Court will have an edge through getting the information to and from its
 destination more quickly.  >>

	So you then feel that civilian high-jump ships would not be allowed by the
Imperial Government??  I have a real problem w/ that...it goes against the
whole "protection and nurturing of trade" that is a big Imperial priority.

DustyLV769

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:25:08 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Defenses against teleporters

Some more ideas for annoying the intrepid Zhodani Commando Corps:

String monofilament fishing twine throughout unused alcoves and
storerooms. In dim lighting, it's nearly invisible. The Director's
clairvoyance sees an empty passageway, and in go the commandos. 
Teleporters (as far as I know) don't push in through a wormhole, pushing 
things out of the way - they just appear. In this case, with nylons strings 
bored throughout their bodies.

(Aside: can a clairvoyant see anything if the area he's looking at is dark?
Does the clairvoyance sense see through darkness? If it isn't dependent
on normal light, but somehow senses objects and spaces instead, 
then the above trick wouldn't be as useful.)

Riot foam. It's quick, it's festive, it even comes in mixes that are safe
for electronic components. Handy if you want to know the Zho's won't
be teleporting into compartment 35B. Link a riot foam bomb to a sensor
that will trip it when a man-sized body appears out of nowhere - it can fill
the room in less than a second. The first commando makes it in OK,
his buddies will die goopily if they are even a half-second late. Precision
drill, anyone?

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:44:18 EST
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Capital Ships and Space Opera (Alternity?)

In a message dated 11/21/98 20:26:49 PM Pacific Standard Time,
swordworlder@yahoo.com writes:

<<  My real question is should I farm the players
 of that game for Traveller converts or are they just a bunch of
 wild-eyed little snotgobblers to be ignored?  (Sorry, haven't had my
 shot today). >>

	My experience w/ the Alternity players is they are, in general, immature
munchkins...not much into sci-fi, but very interested in the Monty-Haul style
of play.  I am not sure if this is encouraged by the game itself, or by the
game company (TSR/WotC...remember, TSR INVENTED Monty Haul).  I have never had
any real luck getting a player to carry over into Trav; they seem to get
extremely upset when they find out that the best weapons they can usually get
are slug firing (or <cringe> edged! )  

All in my own experience, of course;  YMMV

DustyLV769

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:46:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Defenses against teleporters

Walter Smith writes:
> Some more ideas for annoying the intrepid Zhodani Commando Corps:
> 
> String monofilament fishing twine throughout unused alcoves and
> storerooms. In dim lighting, it's nearly invisible. The Director's
> clairvoyance sees an empty passageway, and in go the commandos. 
> Teleporters (as far as I know) don't push in through a wormhole, pushing 
> things out of the way - they just appear. In this case, with nylons strings
>  bored throughout their bodies.

Unclear, and probably not true.  Either they castle (in which case the wires
wind up where the teleporter came from, which is fairly non-harmful), or there
is at least some force (sufficient to displace air) when they teleport, or
teleportation is _very_ unpleasant and fairly unhealthy as the atmosphere and
dust in the area is suddenly one with the teleporter.  Given that teleportation
doesn't kill people all that often, I'd be inclined to assume that
teleportation displaces objects, probably with a force comparable to what a
normal person walking can displace (i.e. if you can casually push it aside, it
isn't an obstacle).
> 
> Riot foam. It's quick, it's festive, it even comes in mixes that are safe
> for electronic components. Handy if you want to know the Zho's won't
> be teleporting into compartment 35B. Link a riot foam bomb to a sensor
> that will trip it when a man-sized body appears out of nowhere - it can
> fill the room in less than a second. The first commando makes it in OK,
> his buddies will die goopily if they are even a half-second late. Precision
> drill, anyone?

How exactly are you detecting the presence of a man-sized object?  Note that in
general teleporting into an area with an extensive sensor web just isn't all
that useful, regardless of what type of defenses you connect to it (connecting
it to an alarm and sending down guys with guns is likely sufficient).

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:58:16 EST
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Smuggling

In a message dated 11/22/98 6:51:15 AM Pacific Standard Time,
misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca writes:

<<  You are also forgetting a significant issue:  TL.  You can build and
 maintain JP4 X-Boats and Tenders at TL13 (any subsector Captial, no matter
 *how* frontier the region), whereas JP6 requires TL15.  So, If the X-Boat
 Network is to be as pervasive as is needed, then you can't go JP6, since you
 can't maintain the vessels in frontier areas....  >>

	My postulation was a private company using TL-15 ships...which would be
maintained at various company facilities.  I use TL as a yardstick for fixing
the level of construction by a world, not it's ability to service vessels
(i.e. you can't build an F-15 in Rwanda...but with various minor exceptions
(mostly electronics) you can keep one flying (and the electronics are mostly
modular anyway...easily replaced if you have them).

	Depending on what flavor of Trav you enjoy, starships have always been built
at the highest possible TLs avail (CT/MT had all TL 15 designs...TNE had
mostly TL12-15, depending on where you played, and even T4 built ships at
TL12...couldn't have been many TL12 worlds in the early days.)  They must have
been able to maintain them at lower TLs...I don't know if this is canon, but
it seems a vitally necessary assumption;  otherwise ships would be tied to the
worlds where they were built.

DustyLV769

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:57:05 -0500
From: "Paul Schirf" <pc@PerkWorks.com>
Subject: Re: Defenses against teleporters

>Teleporters (as far as I know) don't push in through a wormhole, pushing
>things out of the way - they just appear. In this case, with nylons strings
>bored throughout their bodies.

Unless you can only teleport into vacuum it could be argued
that teleport does, infact, push things out of thje way.  It certainly
pushes particles in the *air* out of the way, no?  Or does it utilize
the matter found in the space to create the teleported object -
thus - teleporting into a vacuum would be impossible?

*Quick Gel* Riot foam with sensors to detect teleport may be
a good measure even if teleport pushes it out of the way - the
*newcomers* are basically frozen until there attack suits
*melt* it using their combat armor's foam counter-measure
chemicals...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:10:46 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

Mon, 23 Nov 1998 00:33:15 -0800, shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)

>>>  Both the ship and personnel will have their identities changed reliably?

>>Maybe (it is the approach that first comes to mind, though
>>maybe you can just bop out of the Imperium and sell the
>>ship and get a new one, but it would probably just be easier
>>to change).

>  How does one reliably deceive an ID system that incorporates
>a full genetic work-up, within the constraints of known Trav tech?

By making a fake ID with the appropriate genetic ID?

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:16:08 EST
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Smuggling

In a message dated 11/22/98 21:19:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
Sapience@compuserve.com writes:

<< The IN doesn't have standing orders to shoot at
 suspectedsmugglers on sight.  (In some regions it's taken for granted
 thatevery merchant is, has been, or will be a smuggler sometime).  >>

	I don't think many people know that John Hancock was a notorious
smuggler...one of the many reasons he joined the Patriots was the British
governer seizing his ships for smuggling IIRC.

DustyLV769

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:15:53 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: First Contact future history

Mon, 23 Nov 1998 00:59:34 -0800, shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)

>>However, the desire to influence presidential elections
>>would probably cause the Canadian parties to start forming
>>Alliances with the American parties.  Eventually they would
>>merge.

>  That I wonder about - we have genuine (theoretically, anyway)
>socialist parties, and some other odd quirks, of which official
>bilingualism likely would not go away.

We have socialists in the US too.  Some form fringe parties,
but lot try and simply move the democratic party, bit by bit,
toward their side (and sometimes completly coopt the party
in local areas where they may have number, like Berkeley).

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:23:53 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: II Re: Smuggling

Mon, 23 Nov 1998 01:13:32 -0800, shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
>>a) you don't need to be that fast to out run mail that
>>has to wait at each port for available ships.

>  Which presupposes that all such systems are not run for efficiency -
>which is difficult enough to believe for the X-Boat system (what was it,
>a theoretical J-2.6 per 7 days average?); a commercial system becomes
>largely inexplicable under those constraints.

No.  I supposes that the mail distribution systems can't be run
for maximum efficiency for any particular bit of mail.  If an
incoming message has to go out to two other systems, forwarding
to one of the those system is going to have to wait.  If the
need for mail to be sent back to the original system is greater,
then they both have to wait.  Unless every bit of mail comes
into a system with a ship waiting to carry it on to all destination
systems (and we are talking a lot of ships here) then messages
are going to have to wait.

>  And don't even think what happens if INI actually has a real grip on
>anti-piracy tasking and budgets.

Well, we are talking smuggling here.  We have hashed this over
on piracy before and don't agree on what a "real grip" on
anit-piracy and a suitable budget is (or how effective any
particular level of prevent would be).

>>b) they don't have to be common.  If being jump 3+ lets
>>you smuggle, then it will be people with those ships that
>>do the smuggling.

>  Luckily the authorities will never twig to that, I guess.

Well, I don't know the slang "twig to that".  If you mean
they will think of it, of course they will.  But unless
they detain ships just because they are jump3+, it will
be of limited use.  (The US knows what kind of boats
are used for drug smuggling, but they still need other
means of identifying the smugglers).

>>Ships will be moving to get to certain areas for a variety of
>>reasons.  This isn't much of an excuse to detain a ship (and
>>then the background needs to present the effects of all
>>those other ships being detained by mistake).
>
>  Who mentioned detaining ships?

How do you stop them without detaining them?

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 14:27:23 -0700
From: Samir <samir@chisp.net>
Subject: Re: Defenses against teleporters

Unless you know for a fact that your attackers will get on board and or are
Zho you are pretty much screwed.

If however you do know whom you are facing then you can prepare.

1. Thermal or vibration sensors in unused areas of the ship (tuned to the
onboard personal these would detect arriving boarders.

2. Alter the gravity settings for areas that will not be used.

3. random stun for certain areas.

4. Psi shielding tied into the ships power for wide setting, (can a Zho
teleport into an area that has Psi shielding?)

5. set up a dummy corridoor in the cargo area so the Zho (if they are in a
hurry t-port into a cell or blind enviroment)

6. Have certain areas of the ship rigged to alternate the gravity settings
rapidly if intruders suddenly appear. (I beleave that a ship internal
sensors can detect a sudden increase in weight, I am not sure how fine
tuned it can be, I mean would it detect 180 pounds or no less then 500
pounds) If you have a certain amount of weight already figured into you
thrust and suddenly you have 10 x 170 pounds (plus equipment) suddenly
appear thats about 2300 pounds suddenly affecting your ship.

just some ideas

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 14:28:57 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Jump-6 courier networks

>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
>Subject: Re: Jump-6 courier networks
>
>Steven Hudson writes:
>>  OTOH, I would accept the possibility that the Imperium (and its' licensed
>>commercial subsidiaries) maintains a de facto monopoly on J-5/6 commo, but
>>that implies a certain type of cynical, power-mad government which I might
>>find depressingly realistic.
>
>The trouble here is IMO that that implies a government power-mad enough to
>go to enormous trouble to keep a jump-6 monopoly, but lax enough to allow
>independent smugglers and pirates, and which for some inexplicable reason
>use the slow X-boat network instead of faster private network for its
>official correspondance. 

  Well, I concede that the current situation is basically inexplicable.
We know that the IN/INI and the Household have J-6 systems, although it's
not clear that they have committed enough hulls to run it as a "ship per
day" rather than a ship per week or so system. Either way, the long-range
transmission of info between (sector?) collection centers must almost
certainly be quite close to J-6/week.

  It's not impossible that the X-Boat system is largely only civil, low-
priority, and news*, with Imperial and large corporate** systems running
parallel at a lower frequency but a very high speed between command nexi.

  That model would imply a certain amount of double-think, as anyone who
knows anythings about it (including every spaceship crew in the 3I) would
have to politely ignore the implication that what the official mind of the
Imperium knows (and when they know it) is important, and that the wants and
needs of its' regular inhabitants are mere inconveniences. Believable?

 * this assumes that the 3I doesn't really want fast news to its' members (RSB)

 ** not necessarily in-house; a Jump-Ex contract between sector HO's could work


        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1183
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Traveller-digest     Monday, November 23 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1184



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Smuggling
Re: A federal Imperium?
Re: Jump-6 courier networks (Was: Smuggling)
re: Defenses against teleporters
Re: GT: Ship Design Question
Re: Jump-6 courier networks (Was: Smuggling) 
Re Teleportation
Re: Jump-6 courier network
Re: Re Teleportation
Re: meters
Traveller Wargaming
Re: Traveller Languages
re: Starship Economics
SOMETHING I FORGOT...
Re: Mass combat system for Traveller
3I ID (was Re: Smuggling)
Hello, Jens?
re: Defenses against teleporters
Re : The Darmine
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1181
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1177
What's a LEO?
Re: Traveller Languages
Re: Re : The Darmine 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:42:27 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

Mon, 23 Nov 1998 02:38:37 -0800, shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
>>>  I also seem to recall the theory that no merchant would want
>>>to use any service other than the X-Boat system due to security
>>>and/or privacy concerns.

>>I don't, but then I don't read every thread.  My guess is
>>that most info would propigate fastest over the X-boat
>>backbone and then spread out from their more slowly.

>  IIRC, someone claimed that no tramp trader would send a message
>ahead to announce their intended arrival (plus cargo and passenger
>manifests where applicable) as it would be unthinkable to send a
>message via another merchant ship.
>
>  Of course, such a theory is clearly outmoded by the principle that
>"most mail will, in fact, go on the self same commercial ships", i.e.,
>tramp traders?

Well, lets not confuse "what" is being sent with "how" it is
being sent.  It can be argued that a merchant wouldn't send messages
that reveal their future trading plans for fear that the
unscrupleous would intercept them (perhaps even by x-boat).
But that say little about how other messages are sent, just
that merchants don't send those kinds of messages.

>  If the X-Boat system is the fastest form of commo for most info then:
>a) most info is almost completely time-insensitive, including from the
>customers POV,

This is a stretch.  Even if you have a fleet of jump-6 couriers
at each world waiting to carry messges you only cut transit time
by 50%.  After all, plenty of time senstive mail was sent
before overnight services like Federal Express became available,
it mostly just meant that things got put off a day or two
before they become urgent and had to be sent "now".

>c) the system is
>broken and the backup "suspension of disbelief" damper has to be fed
>the new suppression mission specs.

Well, this is subjective.  I find this picture of an Imperium where
they can track everyone, catch smugglers reliably,
etc. to be hard to believe in a background where communications
have to be carried by ship and the interstellar governement
is supposedly disinterested in local affairs.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 14:45:41 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: A federal Imperium?

>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
>Subject: Re: A federal Imperium
...
>>  Either worlds representatives are powerless due to a requirement for
>>their constituencies to approve all their actions, or federal powers
>>are restricted to very little (probably less in theory than the current
>>Imperial system), or those representatives can bind their worlds to the
>>agreements they make in their name - which latter makes both planetary
>>sovereignty and local responsible government somewhat problematic.
>
>I disagree with the last bit. Historically ambassadors and envoys were
>endowed with plenipotentiary powers precisely because of that problem
>(communication lag) and their respective countries managed to retain
>their sovereignty.

  True, but that was in a primarily bipartite atmosphere; multi-participant
"horse-trading" (and the Imperium would have _hundreds_ of major worlds even
if you somewhat cynically decide to ignore the poor ones - and the richest
ones are spread out throughout* the entire 3I, too); creating a meaningful
federation where those powers nearest the core can optimize their policies
(presumably at others' expense) seems a very difficult task, at least for one
with a significant lifespan. The Sylean Fed may have run across this problem
at a lower level at some point.

  * one aside - if we went to a 3-D map w/o adding tens of thousands of barren
systems, then 3I commo times would collapse to almost nothing - a Bad Thing


        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:47:21 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Jump-6 courier networks (Was: Smuggling)

>Conclusion:
[List of why the X-boat network is J-4]
- - The Imperium just doesn't want to shell out the bucks for
jump-6.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:43:45 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Defenses against teleporters

Hmmm, seems I need to rethink this a bit. Some people have pointed
out that an incoming teleporter must be able to displace the air, so
must have some ability to push stuff out of the way. The question is
going to then be, how much stuff can be pushed? (Not to mention,
how strongly is it pushed, how is it pushed, and how fast is it pushed.)
Can the person just push air out of the way, or water as well? How about
dust? Corrosive atmosphere? Riot foam? Bead curtains? And what
happens when the person can't push the matter out of the way (like the
case of steel pins all over the place, steel wire grids or an unfortunate
misdirection into a tube full of steel ball bearings).

This will be affected by how you see teleportation working IYTU. Is it a
space warp, a trip through jumpspace, a momentary transformation into
pure thought? Each will end up with different mechanics of exit and
entry, and will have their own cool special effects.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:58:57 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: GT: Ship Design Question

>That one is a problem, I chose to assume that jump-drives can actually exceed
>computed performance by about 5%.  

Speaking as a gearhead, I find this a little irritating - adding up 
component masses and powers and costs to the fourth significant figure and
then having to assume that the single bulkiest part of the ship is      
automatically overdesigned by 5%. What about freighters? (I know, it's
Just A Game...) I suppose one could take the model that the jump field
actually extends a significant distance from the hull (several meters or
more), which makes the hit for streamlining more comprehensible. 

>You armor it based on the area of the turret/bay, which is 800 for the turret,
>6500 for the bay.  This seemed relatively clear (and they did address in the
>text having a different armor level for the body and the turrets).

It would have been clearer if it had been obvious that bays and turrets
stick out of the hull, which it wasn't - definitely needs some clarification 
for slow-witted people like me.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:04:18 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Jump-6 courier networks (Was: Smuggling) 

> >Conclusion:
> [List of why the X-boat network is J-4]
> - The Imperium just doesn't want to shell out the bucks for
> jump-6.

I was under the impression that it was J4 because most of the bases and 
centers it connected were J4 or less.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:08:36 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re Teleportation

...
>Automated lasers that track and shoot anyone in the room who _didn't_
>come in through the door (using their keycard, of course). 

  That should be pretty straight forward with TL F computers - all you
do before widespread adoption is test it in a few select units...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:08:44 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Jump-6 courier network

...
>I'm sure Arballatra might have agreed, after the First Civil War.  Otherwise,
>wouldn't the Xboat system have started as a J5 system instead of J4?  Was
>Arballatra keeping J5 for her private courier network or was the cost really
>to high to justify it?  Wouldn't the burueacracy have wanted a J5 system?
>Maybe the Empress' man told em to sit down and shut up? : )

  IIRC, the 3I didn't reach TL E until 900 or so? J-4 would thus have been
the max for a century or two after the Civil War.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 14:08:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Re Teleportation

Steven Hudson writes:
> ...
> >Automated lasers that track and shoot anyone in the room who _didn't_
> >come in through the door (using their keycard, of course). 
> 
>   That should be pretty straight forward with TL F computers - all you
> do before widespread adoption is test it in a few select units...

Unfortunately, it doesn't require too many accidental executions of innocent
people (due to hardware failure, etc) for the system to acquire enough bad
press to get removed.  Most likely any lethal internal defensive system is
going to only be fully active under unusual circumstances, and will usually
merely generate a security alert somewhere.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:13:43 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: meters

Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>Why don't you use 5'/1.5 meter grids? I thinks that's 3% slop or so

Uh, because GURPS has standardized on 3ft?

Seriously, there would be no problem if there wasn't already a 3ft grid on
the plans. (Which makes sense, as they were designed for GT.)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:14:22 -0600
From: Andrew Akins <igor@truserve.com>
Subject: Traveller Wargaming

My players and I were just fooling around with Fifth Frontier War (just
snagged a copy on eBay, wheeeeee!).

I recalled that IGs Imperial Squadrons has some stuff that is basically FFW
with some addition/changes to let it be used outside of the Marches with
other campaigns.

I was wondering if anyone out there has any experience with IS, and if it
works - that is, is there any big holes in it etc...since I believe some of
the authors are on the list(s), I was wondering if people have opinions/etc
about the rules in IS.

Thanks!

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                        |
| Home: igor@truserve.com - www.truserve.com/~igor/ - AIM: Iowa Akins |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/ - AIM: CMS AndyA    |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU: tc++(**) ru+ ge 3i+ jt- au+ ls+ kk+ hi+ as+ va+ dr+ so+ zh+   |
|       vi+ da+                                                       |
| Geek: GCS d- s+:+ a- C++ W++ w+++(-)$ PS+ PE t- 5++ X+ R+++ tv+     |
|       b+++ DI+ D-- G e+ h---- r+++ y++++                            |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:19:44 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Traveller Languages

Brandon Quina <lore@tmgbbs.com> writes:
>	Ohhh :) Cool.  That helps alot, about the Hivers and their
>gestural languages.  :)  Other than that, it seems like the aliens
>have mainly one language per race;  something that I won't be using
>in my game.  :)  Anyways, I'll probally post my language information
>to the list before long.

Aslan 1. Hivers 1. Vargr many. Zhodani1. Vilan 1. Sword Worlds 1. Darrians
1. K'kree 1.

Differing dialects of Vilani, depending on year, are canon, and I've
always assumed that the same holds for other languages.

There's nothing that actually says that there are no more languages in
Traveller. Most of us assume Galanglic as a lingua franca, with other
empires having their own equivalent. Differing regional dialects of
Galanglic are canon, and minor races and isolated planets have been
'reveals' as having different languages.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:25:22 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: re: Starship Economics

>From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
>Subject: re: Starship Economics
...
>into the Imperial command structure. System defense forces
>(monitors and SDB's) aren't really worried about much, they're not
>considered a force projection threat - though there may be planets
>that have misbehaved in the past and aren't allowed such dangerous
>toys.

  That's all pretty reasonable; presumably worlds that have misbehaved
get their normal SDB/COACC budget requisitioned by the IN/colonial fleet
to cover the cost of defending those naughty boys (which won't work really
well, as SDB's are supposed to be the most cost-effective portion of the
defenses for a given site*)?

...
>planets from building their own jump-capable warships: since they're
>incorporated at some level into the Imperial Fleet command structure,
>procedures are in place for an Imperial Admiral to take them away from
>you, probably when you'd most rather they didn't.

  Which is an argument against integral auxiliary J-drives on SDB's :(
Hmm, back to flogging the marketing people!

 * obviously relative strategic immobility is an opportunity cost

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:33:03 -0500
From: Brandon Quina <lore@tmgbbs.com>
Subject: SOMETHING I FORGOT...

RIMWARD is the direction away from the galatic core, COREWARD is the
direction toward the galatic core.  Spinning is the direction the
galaxy spins, and trailing is the other direction.


All of the races pretty much have their own interstellar nation.
The humans have the Zhondani Consultate, the Solomani Sphere, the
Third Imperium, and countless small client states loyal to the
Third Imperium.  There are also afew small human empires (such as the
Sword Worlds) that are independant of the Imperium.  Other minor races
probally also have small states like that as well. 

The Aslani have the Aslan Hierate, the Hivers have the Hive Federation.
The K'kree have 'the Two Thousand Worlds'.  The Vargr have the Vargr
Extents (which arn't REALLY an interstellar nation).  The Dryone are
the only major race without any actual territory.



- -- 
Brandon,

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 14:53:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Sword Worlder <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Mass combat system for Traveller

- ---"Volker A. Greimann" <greimann@geocities.com> wrote:
> At 10:58 21.11.98 +0000, you wrote:
> >
> >BITS has also started work on a development of FT for Traveller - the
> >combat system has been modified to give a Traveller feel, and the
ship
> >construction system is being changed to match the Fleets Book
version.
> Hmm, i´v just started playing FT and am greatly enjoying it.
> When will your book be published? I am already hungering for it!

Well, here I am again, out of the loop.  What's FT?  Must be a generic
system, eh?



==
- ------------------------><>------------------------
IMTU 0601 tc++ tm !tn t4+ ?tg ru++ 3i pi ta+ he+ 
http://come.to/traveller

Visit the "Subsidized Merchant" - http://surf.to/traveller-trader 
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:54:01 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: 3I ID (was Re: Smuggling)

>Subject: Re: Smuggling
...
>>  How does one reliably deceive an ID system that incorporates
>>a full genetic work-up, within the constraints of known Trav tech?
>
>By making a fake ID with the appropriate genetic ID?

  That should work, although perhaps only under limited circumstances;
i) they check you out and get a match for two ID's on file - oops. This
maybe shouldn't be allowed (rapid scans to compare to their database) as
theres' no genuine need for the capability to exist, and it really screws
over PC's (even if there are 100 billion plus current ID's out there...).

ii) they check out your ID and it isn't listed on their file of ID's
issued: when and where (although not necessarily with Empire-wide DNA
registry included) - your ID can pass some musters, but even if faked
by an insider it still can't appear on a list as having been issued any
earlier than the forgery, which could get you caught.

  FWIW, it's probably a great deal safer to sanitize your ship by getting
rid of it (preferably outside the 3I) than it is to try and disguise its'
original construction without replacing some of the major fittings (OC, if
you do get rid of them, that should help a lot).

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:58:00 -0600
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: Hello, Jens?

Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm, would you please contact me? I have news
about our transaction (good news..of a sort) and mail to the
address I have for you keeps bouncing.

Apologies to the list for the waste of bandwidth.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:06:03 -0600
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: re: Defenses against teleporters

[snippy snip]

>This will be affected by how you see teleportation working IYTU. Is it a
>space warp, a trip through jumpspace, [...]


For some reason I get this image of Zho teleporters with drop tanks ... or
maybe collapsible abdomenal bladders (owch).

I always envisioned teleportation more as opening a portal to step through
(like the "dimension door" of AD&D) than an actual "poof, you're there"
effect. It just seemed like a better solution to me. Of course, I envision
ships jumping as an effect similar to that in the computer game _Decent:
Freespace_ -- a shimmering, two dimensional doorway through which the ship
flies. YMMV.

Ciao,

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:12:18 +1100
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re : The Darmine

Just catching up with the accumulated posts....

This is an interesting human variant race.

There are a few little problems I can see, though.

i. The more active immune response implies a much higher incidence of
autoimmune disease and allergies in the population. Blood transfusion
and organ transplantation would be nearly impossible without
sophisticated medical trickery.

Reproduction is possible because of :-
a. the presence of immunosuppressant factors in the semen or vaginal
secretions ;
b. placental 'block' (as correctly pointed out in an earlier posting,
one of the mysteries of contemporary immunology).

Libido would probably be lower :-
Probability of reproducing = f(reproductive risk, energy and time
required to ensure survival offspring, cultural factors)

ii. As Leonard Erickson correctly pointed out, an enhanced transport
system rather than an augmented immune system makes more sense.
While the immune system is amazingly good at recognising different
organic molecules, it isn't too flash at differentiating between
differently sized hydrated metal ions.
Protein load becomes a problem with an antibody based system : severe
derangements of osmotic pressure would ensue, depending on the
concentration of metals.

Another simpler option (for all you budding genetic engineers) is to
dramatically decrease the affinity of the intestinal mucosal receptors
for metal complexes.
This enables the 'internal milieu' to be about humaniti normal, but
prohibits the interesting cosmetic changes e.g. green hair. (but see
notes below).

Unfortunately, 'please pass the salt' becomes a logistical rather than
an etiquette problem at a mixed dinner party. Darmine outside their
usual environments become rapidly iron, zinc, etc. deficient.

There may also be unpleasant problems associated with bacterial
overgrowth in the gut, most metals being nutrients for them too. Unless
intestinal levels get very, very high... hmm,
an extremophile enteritis sounds interesting.....

The biggest problem I can see with absorbing all the metal is an
increased incidence of liver and gut cancers (from the radioactive
isotopes which will be present).

iii. Someone said conventional medications would not readily work on the
Darmine.
If their immune response is super amplified they will - all foreign
molecules will induce anaphylaxis (oops).
If we posit that the handling of metal salts is different, and that is
the only real difference between the Darmine and the rest of humaniti,
then other drugs will work just as well (or as badly).

iv. The Darmine worldview and cosmesis.
I presume that the problem with the Darmine worlds is that the levels of
metal salts in the environment are so high as to be toxic to most
lifeforms.

What an amazingly colourful place these worlds must be - the various
reds, blues, greens etc. in the water, the metallic tints in the plants
and animal hides....

Perhaps Darmine colouration is cultural. They dye their hair shocking
pink or verdigris because these are common colours in the environment (a
residual from hunter gathering days, or more darkly, internecine
attrition wars in the jungles of the homeworld)...

v. Why are outsiders interested in the Darmine?
Assume they have normal gut absorption and enhanced elimination - mining
companies will want Darmine bile or liver extracts to make marginal ore
bodies viable.
'Bioremediation' of waste sites is another important application.
Pharmaceutical companies will want Darmine bits for the treatment of
metal poisoning and
research ; the basis of 'mucosal block' remains unclear at contemporary
tech levels (i.e. how the intestine decides how to stop absorbing any
more iron, for example).

Just my Cr 0.02...

Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:04:07 -0800
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1181

- ------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:31:25 -0500
From: "Paul Schirf" <pc@PerkWorks.com>
Subject: Developing a new ship

I'm looking for someone to develop HG and other details
of a new ship, which I will reflect in deckplans and post on
my site.  I have an exterior hull configuration drawn.  It's a
Close Structure, and, based on exterior appearance,
could have a large communications dish, or 1 (or 2) 100-ton
weapon bays (of different types if two exist).  .  I prefer it to
have jump capability, but it does not appear to have
massive drive areas (although looks can be deceiving).
With minor adjustments to length I can make it displace
anywhere from 2000 to 2500-tons.  Anyone want to help me?

Paul Schirf
Paul@Schirf.com

- ------------------------------
     What Tech Level?  I'd be happy to run some number for you if you give
me some idea of what you want in the ship.  Exploration?  Combat?  Spinal
Mount?  Carrier?  Just provide me some information.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:36:33 -0800
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1177

- ------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 11:07:24 -0700
From: Sanders <timmon@primenet.com>
Subject: Imperial Calendar Question: Holidays?

I'm getting ready to do the layout on the Imperial Calendar, and I was
wondering if anyone knows if there are any specific Imperial Holidays
mentioned in canon?

For instance - is there a holiday celebrating the Emperor's birthday?
His/Her ascension to the throne? Holiday's commemorating the Veterans of
the Frontier Wars?  A holiday celebrating the Founding of the Imperium (at
a guess, I'd say it would be celebrated on Day 1), etc.?

Any comments, suggestions, or canon ref's appreciated.

Thanks,
Paul

- ------------------------------
     Day Zero of the Imperial Calandar was the celebration of the founding
of the Third Imperium.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:12:29 -0800
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: What's a LEO?

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:23:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Cook <markc@peak.org>
Subject: Re: .224 Boz or 10mm
*SNIP*
Man, this is exactly the kind of round I *don't* want to see civilian
LEOs carrying.
*SNIP*
ObTrav: What would the LEO equivalent of this be in the 3rd Imperium?
*SNIP*

     What is or are LEO's, and should hope it is nothing derogatory.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:34:03 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Traveller Languages

Rob Prior wrote:
> 
> 
> Aslan 1. Hivers 1. Vargr many. Zhodani1. Vilan 1. Sword Worlds 1. Darrians
> 1. K'kree 1.
> 
> Differing dialects of Vilani, depending on year, are canon, and I've
> always assumed that the same holds for other languages.
> 
> There's nothing that actually says that there are no more languages in
> Traveller. Most of us assume Galanglic as a lingua franca, with other
> empires having their own equivalent. 

That's what I always figured the canon Aslan, Zhodani, etc languages
are; just their equivalents of Galanglic.

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:35:53 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Re : The Darmine 

> Libido would probably be lower :-
> Probability of reproducing = f(reproductive risk, energy and time
> required to ensure survival offspring, cultural factors)

Libido would be *higher* since the lower birthrate due to the intensified 
immune system would dictate that matings should occur as often as possible to 
beat the odds.

> Unfortunately, 'please pass the salt' becomes a logistical rather than
> an etiquette problem at a mixed dinner party. Darmine outside their
> usual environments become rapidly iron, zinc, etc. deficient.

And they'd naturally carry 'trace tabs' containing higher levels of these and 
other elements than a normal human's trace tab.  'Pass the salt' could get 
normal humans killed from heavy metal poisoning.

> There may also be unpleasant problems associated with bacterial
> overgrowth in the gut, most metals being nutrients for them too. Unless
> intestinal levels get very, very high... hmm,
> an extremophile enteritis sounds interesting.....
> 
> The biggest problem I can see with absorbing all the metal is an
> increased incidence of liver and gut cancers (from the radioactive
> isotopes which will be present).

Darwinian selection would weed out those who couldn't deal with these 
problems,  The survivors would adjust over time, just like isolated genetic 
pockets adjust to their environments here on Earth.

> v. Why are outsiders interested in the Darmine?
> Assume they have normal gut absorption and enhanced elimination - mining
> companies will want Darmine bile or liver extracts to make marginal ore
> bodies viable.

I'd assume they'd want Darmine bacteria & fungi to concentrate lowgrade 
minerals.  This would make sense.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1184
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Monday, November 23 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1185



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Longbow
Re: What's a LEO?
Neural Scanners & Low Berths
re: Jump-6 Courier Networks
Starship Economics/  Broken Frieght Rates
Re: Jump-6 courier networks (Was: Smuggling)
Re: Jump-6 courier networks
Bruce Alan Macintosh  - MCS
Re: Hello, Jens?
Re: What's a LEO?
Re: Neural Scanners & Low Berths
Re: What's a LEO?
Re: SOMETHING I FORGOT...
FT for Traveller
Re: What's a LEO?
Re: MS FrontPage Themes
Re: GT: Ship Design Question
Languages in the Imperium
GURPS Traveller Ship Design: Bays
Re: Unpowered gliders in VE2 and GT (long)
Re: GURPS Traveller Ship Design: Bays 
Re: GURPS Traveller Ship Design: Bays 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:40:10 -0600
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Longbow

bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh) replied:

> Which modifiers did you take? It should probably get the bonus for
> being in the outer solar system, and single-hex scan (at those
> ranges a whole other star system might count as single-hex, which is
> really supposed to represent a <1 degree cone). And you could take
> 24 hours per scan.

Taking "sensor in outer system", "single hex scan", and "scan time of
hours", the modifier is +2.5.

The text says some observations are occurring at ranges as distant as
1500 parsecs, about range 22.  Setting aside issues of funding for now,
let's assume Longbow is sensitivity-16.5, costing about TCr 50.

Given those numbers, Longbow can just detect a signal of +3, which 
corresponds to a 10000 MW ship that's "surprised" and "using active
sensors", assuming no masking or other modifiers.  If the target is
also using HEPlaR to maneuver at all, it only needs a 1000 MW power
plant to be potentially visible.  Like any other sensor, once Longbow 
spots a target it has a much easier time tracking it (+1.5 modifier).

I took a quick look at the Very Large Array's web site.  It cost
$78.6 million in 1972 dollars to build, which is 0.0065% of the US
GDP in 1972 (about $1200 billion in 1972 dollars).  If we assume 
the Imperial GDP is about PCr 250 (TCr 250000), then the proportion
of GDP the Imperium spent on Longbow would be roughly equivalent to
the US having built three VLAs.

  -- Steve Bonneville

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:44:31 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: What's a LEO?

In a message dated 11/23/98 3:29:48 PM Pacific Standard Time,
lhale@panlabs.com writes:

<< Man, this is exactly the kind of round I *don't* want to see civilian
 LEOs carrying.
 *SNIP*
 ObTrav: What would the LEO equivalent of this be in the 3rd Imperium?
 *SNIP*
 
      What is or are LEO's, and should hope it is nothing derogatory.
  >>

Law Enforcement Officer.

 I also agree with the previous poster about this. Most Police Officers that I
have seen can't shoot worth a d--n (no flames; I was one myself). I do not
like the idea of a police officer missing a perp and putting a high power
rifle cartridge through my apartment wall. I wish that LEO's would be issued
with submachine guns firing pistol cartridges instead of rifles and/or
carbines as department shoulder arms (though I still prefer a good shotgun).

Seth

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 23:14:56 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Neural Scanners & Low Berths

A question for our gearhead/medics - Would a neural scanner register a
human in a low berth?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 23:18:41 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Jump-6 Courier Networks

"Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu> wrote:

>I like to look at random rolls as idea seeds. Sure, I'll toss them when
>it suits me - but I like to at least look, and see what ideas they
>present. Instead of saying "That X-Boat link is stupid there", I say
>"that's odd. Why would that X-Boat link go that way instead of this?"

Whatever happened to the Waystation being built on Echiste, Lanth described
in Twilights' Peak. IIRC it never made it to MT. An oversight perhaps?

Alternatively, was it nuked in the FFW?

Any thoughts?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 19:53:32 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Starship Economics/  Broken Frieght Rates

        Hi, all!
        RealWorld(tm), as of this afternoon with a rates war on in Halifax,
Halifax to Antwerp,	2TFU (40' container) is 10 days and $1100USD, *at most*.
That is on a G3 cargo ship.  Two new shipping firms just opened shop locally
and are cutting everyone's throats to get containers.
        Interesting paralell, neh?
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 23:39:41 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Jump-6 courier networks (Was: Smuggling)

Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com> wrote:

>Conclusion:


Canon - (Imperial Encyclopedia, MT, (c)1977 to 1998 FarFuture Enterprises,
All rights reserved, quoted for discussion purposes).

Express Boats: Rapid communication ships designed to make optimum use of
jump technology in communicating information within the Imperium. Because
the Imperium is so large, ordinary communication must depend on ships
travelling along established trade routes, making Regina nearly 4 years out
from the Imperial Core. The express boat (abbreviated Xboat) system,
established originally in 624 and expanded to cover the entire imperium by
718, reduces this communication time by nearly 75 percent.

Selected locations along major trade routes are established as sites for
express stations, which are orbital facilities which service and refuel the
Xboats on their communications runs. As an Xboat arrives in a system, it
beams its recorded data to the express station, which then retransmits it
to an Xboat standing by for a jump outsystem; Time between jumps is almost
always less than four hours and has been recorded at under seven minutes
making the speed of communication nearly the speed of jump (since Xboats
carry jump-4 drives, speeds near four parsecs per week). In practice, this
speed is somewhat reduced by the fact that trade routes do not follow
straight lines and that not all jumps are made at jump-4. Nonetheless, the
system achieves approximately jump-2.6 per week.

Express Boats (1117 update): Since the assassination of the Emperor by
Archduke Dulinor, the progress of Xboats through the Imperium has become
increasingly impeded. Various factions restrict information flow to gain
advantage. Additionally, the Domain of Deneb is effectively isolated from
the body of the Imperium by the Vargr corsairs that have overrun Corridor
sector since the withdrawl of the sector fleet. The Xboat link through
Corridor is severed; the only links are maintained by merchants and naval
couriers, travelling both through Corridor, and the Great Rift.

>Either
>	the J-4 X-boats are just an example (the type most frequently
>encountered)
>	and J-6 boats exist (but there are only a few running the main routes)
>	and the X-boat network is optimised for travel times (using warships,
>	bases in empty hexes and feeder lines to all planets using ships
>capable
>	of two successivejumps.)
>OR
>	The Imperium keeps J-5 and J-6 to itself.
>	The X-boat network is designed to be worse than it could.
>	The Emperor, the Navy and the Megacorps have an information advantage.
>
>Choices, choices.

IMO the Imperium deliberately maintains the network (which is Civilian) at
J4. The Imperial Navy has a courier system at j6 for urgent messages. I
suspect pressure would be brought against any party trying to expand the
network to a higher jump rating, or perhaps the Imperium restricts such
operations in a similar manner to telecoms and post office operations are
deliberate monopolies in some countries.

I would conclude (from MT material ) that the Imperium controls information
as in your second conclusion, especially as the construction of a J6
network would require more Waystations to be built (and TL15 facilities to
maintain them?)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 23:35:56 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Jump-6 courier networks

Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> wrote:

>Zhunastu Enterprises do not survive into 1100. There is no information on
>what happens to it (my own theory is that it goes down the tubes during the
>Civil War), but it definitely isn't around any longer. Instead, the Imperial
>Family (exactly which members of the IF is unspecified) owns stock in all
>Megacorporations (except one, and IMTU that is a misprint) and all the (four
>or five) lesser interstellar corporations of which I've seen breakdowns of
>stock ownership. In some of them the IF ownership is as low as 2%, in others
>it is considerably more. (IMTU the price of getting an interstellar charter
>is to give the Emperor 2% of your stock(known as "The Emperor's Share").
>That's what finances the Imperial Bureaucracy IMTU).

My view is that Artemus breaks it up in return for holdings in the other
MegaCorps, or potential MegaCorps. This will defuse potential concerns
about his pacification policies and the concentration of power...

I haven't got anything to back that up, of course.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 23:45:00 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Bruce Alan Macintosh  - MCS

Bruce,

I'm getting bounces from your address - can you send me a copy of MCS?

Thanks,

Dom

Apologies for wasting the bandwidth for everyone else

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:53:45 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Hello, Jens?

Dear Sir:

Would this have anything to do with Ed Leland's ( Panzerman66) Traveller
Auction?
If so; can you please E mail me also with the information?

thanks,

Seth

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:01:31 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: What's a LEO?

Leo Hale wrote:
>      What is or are LEO's, and should hope it is nothing derogatory.
> 
> Leo

Law Enforcement Officer, in this case

The other common LEO is Low Earth Orbit.

This would mean that Highport cops are LEOLEO's ;-)

(I'm thinking an army of Joe Pesci lookalikes from the 'Lethal Weapon
series" ;-)

Sorry for the silliness, it's been a looong day...

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:02:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Neural Scanners & Low Berths

SD Mooney writes:
> A question for our gearhead/medics - Would a neural scanner register a
> human in a low berth?

Depends how you think a NAS actually works, but since someone in a low berth
has rather minimal neural activity, probably not (or at least, not at any
significant range at all -- maybe 1% or less).  Someone on fast drug would
probably be harder to detect as well (assuming an inverse square rule, which is
rather an assumption, someone on fast drug would be detected at about 1/8
normal range).

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:12:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Sword Worlder <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: What's a LEO?

> In a message dated 11/23/98 3:29:48 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> lhale@panlabs.com writes:
> 
> << Man, this is exactly the kind of round I *don't* want to see
civilian
>  LEOs carrying.
>  *SNIP*
>  ObTrav: What would the LEO equivalent of this be in the 3rd Imperium?
>  *SNIP*
>  
>       What is or are LEO's, and should hope it is nothing derogatory.
>   >>
> 
> Law Enforcement Officer.

Ouch.  Definitely derogatory.  In deference to Leo, let's abreviate
them "DB" for Donut Brigade, instead of LEO. ;-}



==
- ------------------------><>------------------------
IMTU 0601 tc++ tm !tn t4+ ?tg ru++ 3i pi ta+ he+ 
http://come.to/traveller

Visit the "Subsidized Merchant" - http://surf.to/traveller-trader 
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:06:17 -0500
From: Brandon Quina <lore@tmgbbs.com>
Subject: Re: SOMETHING I FORGOT...

Whooops.  Sowwy everybody, that was supposed to go to somebody else.

Terribly Sowwy.  :)



- -- 
Brandon,

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:09:46 -0800
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: FT for Traveller

- ------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 10:58:45 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Mass combat system for Traveller

CPsyop@aol.com wrote:

>(At the risk of mentioning another game system....)
>There are at least two sites on the Net with modifications to Ground Zero
>Games starship minitures rules Full Thrust to allow for the representation
of
>fleet actions in the Traveller universe.  They are at
>http://www.erols.com/nolan/conversion.htm and
>http://www.uwm.edu/~cthulhu/FT/5thThrust.txt.  And for an introduction of
the
>system for those not familiar with Full Thrust you can look at
>http://www.uwm.edu/~cthulhu/FT/intro.htm

BITS has also started work on a development of FT for Traveller - the
combat system has been modified to give a Traveller feel, and the ship
construction system is being changed to match the Fleets Book version.

<GRIPE> Unfortunately, none of the playtest copies people aske for has had
much in the way of feedback for it </GRIPE>

From trying them, Fifth Frontier Thrust seems best of the two you've
quoted, although the spinal weapons are truly screwed up.

Dom

- - ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/

- ------------------------------
     Send me a test copy and I'll send you a review within three weeks.  It
should be well written and include the point of view of at least five
different people.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:11:57 -0600
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: Re: What's a LEO?

>     What is or are LEO's, and should hope it is nothing derogatory.


"Law Enforcement Officer"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:15:14 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: MS FrontPage Themes

At 01:37 pm 11/23/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Fellow Sophonts,
>
>I am currently hard at work on a new Traveller site dedicated to the

>Project: StarRise campaign.  Last year, I converted to 
>the use of MicroSoft's FrontPage 97 (now 98), and really enjoy using

>it.  I've also recently located the Software Developer's Kit which 
>allows me to design my own themes for the website, and I came up
with 
>an idea for developing a Traveller theme for the new site.  Since my

>artistic abilities are not the greatest, and I want to avoid 
>reinventing the wheel, I wanted to ask a few obvious questions
before 
>I started on this project:
>
>1)  Has someone already developed a Traveller or Science-Fiction 
>theme for MS FrontPage that I could use?

	I have one that's so-so. Let me know if you want it:
www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/Traveller
- -- Dave Golden
- -- House in Colorado Springs for sale! 
- -- http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/House

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:19:31 -0600
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: Re: GT: Ship Design Question

>It would have been clearer if it had been obvious that bays and turrets
>stick out of the hull, which it wasn't - definitely needs some clarification
>for slow-witted people like me.


Me too. I have thought that bays were internal ever since I was introduced
to the term in _High Guard_. I never knew that they were just big honkin'
turrets (Imperial designation; BHTs). Why call them bays at all? I also
thought that virtually all starship turrets were of the pop-up variety
(regardless of MT illos), although I am not sure where I got that idea.

Ciao,

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

A gearhead wannabie who is frightened by the *real* gearheads on the list.
;-)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:19:14 -0800
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Languages in the Imperium

- ------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:19:44 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Traveller Languages

Brandon Quina <lore@tmgbbs.com> writes:
>    Ohhh :) Cool.  That helps alot, about the Hivers and their
>gestural languages.  :)  Other than that, it seems like the aliens
>have mainly one language per race;  something that I won't be using
>in my game.  :)  Anyways, I'll probally post my language information
>to the list before long.

Aslan 1. Hivers 1. Vargr many. Zhodani1. Vilan 1. Sword Worlds 1. Darrians
1. K'kree 1.

Differing dialects of Vilani, depending on year, are canon, and I've
always assumed that the same holds for other languages.

There's nothing that actually says that there are no more languages in
Traveller. Most of us assume Galanglic as a lingua franca, with other
empires having their own equivalent. Differing regional dialects of
Galanglic are canon, and minor races and isolated planets have been
'reveals' as having different languages.

- ------------------------------
     I'm not sure if it was the Imperial Encyclopaedia or The Referees
Companion book, but one of them stated that there where over 800 languages
in the Imperium and another 300+ alien languages.  This was listed some
where close to the Language translator IIRC.  I will dig out my books and
look to make sure I'm not blowing air with no content.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 19:40:22 -0500
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: GURPS Traveller Ship Design: Bays

> Personally, I think the 20 space bay is a typo. The numbers look like
they are
> trying to stay consistent with CT bk 2 and HG; ie 1 displacement ton for
a
> turret hardpoint (with room for three weapons), and 50 displacement tons
for a
> bay. 

Nope, it isn't a typo. David Pulver said he designed them that way
intentionally, seeing the bay more as a big turret with crew inside it
(kinda like a cupola, I thought.) The 20 spaces inside the ship are
basically for the support machinery and "rotation space".

Allen
 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 19:18:06 -0600
From: "Christopher B. Thrash" <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: Unpowered gliders in VE2 and GT (long)

> On Sun, 22 Nov 1998, Christopher B. Thrash wrote:
> 
> > There should be a condition in which thrust balances
> > drag -- the glider is sinking, but not accelerating -- but the rules for
> > aDecel don't appear to cover this. 
> 
> 	Yeah, it's called top speed for the applied thrust. 
>  

Okay, I got it to work -- after a fashion.  For standard hulls in GT (very
good streamlining, lifting body option), the answer is

minimum glide angle = 0.00143 Lwt / Sa

where Lwt is loaded weight (in pounds), and Sa is surface area (sf).  Glide
ratio (horizontal distance traveled for vertical distance lost) is then 

glide ratio = (1 - glide angle) / glide angle.

For the ships presented in GT, the actual numbers are:

Ship				dtons	stons		sf		glide ratio	
Iramda				10	58.9		2,000		10.8	
Launch				10	36.0		2,000		18.4	
Lifeboat			10	40.8		2,000		16.1	
Rampart				10	90.3		2,000		6.7	
Gig				20	77.9		3,000		12.4	
Ship's Boat			30	97.1		4,000		13.4	
Fuel Skimmer			40	104.3		5,000		15.7	
Pinnace				40	130.4		5,000		12.4	
Modular Cutter			50	189.6		6,500		11.0	
Interplanetary Shuttle		100	230.0		10,000		14.2	
Shuttle				100	374.5		10,000		8.3	
Suleiman			100	346.8		10,800		9.9	
Suleiman II			100	382.0		10,800		8.9	
Animal				200	398.9		15,800		12.8	
Beowulf				200	631.5		16,600		8.2	
Empress Marava			200	556.6		16,600		9.4	
Akkigish			400	1,340.8		28,200		6.3	
Dragon				400	2,907.4		28,200		2.4

The unweighted average is 11.  Comparable glide ratios from the real world:

High-performance sailplane	25-40
Typical patrol or transport	12-20
High-performance bomber	20-25
Prop-powered trainer		10-15
Jet trainer			9-16
Transonic jet fighter		10-13
Supersonic jet fighter		4-9
Helicopter			3-5

So, the Dragon drops like a rock, and the rest are in the right ballpark
for transatmospheric craft.  For best results, use the aerobraking rules on
VE2, p. 164, to get down from orbit to 15,000 ft and figure the glide from
there.

The derivation follows.

********Gearhead Alert*********
	
All right, let's examine what we have, shall we?  According to VE2:

Top speed (Vmax) depends on aerial motive thrust (Amt) and aerodynamic drag
(Adr), 

Vmax = sqrt (7,500 * (Amt/Adr))				(eqn 1.0, p. 134)

Aerial acceleration (aAccel) depends on aerial motive thrust and loaded
weight (Lwt), 

aAccel = (Amt/Lwt) * 20						(eqn 2.0, p. 135)

Put it another way:

Amt = (aAccel * Lwt) / 20					(eqn 2.1)

But the unpowered glider has no aerial motive thrust and no top speed (Amt
= 0, Vmax = 0), unless it accelerates by diving. This acceleration (a
component of aAccel, in this case the only component) depends on the
fraction of total velocity (V) that is dedicated to vertical movement (Vv,
where V = Vv + Vh; this is only an approximation, but given as such in the
text).  That relationship is

aAccel = (Vv/V) * 20						(eqn 3.0, p. 155)

Combined with equation 2.1, this gives aerial motive thrust and top speed
as

Amt = Vv/V * Lwt							(eqn 2.2)

Vmax = sqrt (7,500 * Vv/V * Lwt / Adr)			(eqn 1.1)

     = (Vv/V)^1/2 * (7,500 * Lwt / Adr)^1/2		(eqn 1.2)

You can see that Vmax varies as a function of Vv/V.  When Vv/V = 1 (a
vertical dive), Vmax equals terminal velocity (p. 157, Falling).  As Vv/V
tends to zero (pure horizontal flight), Vmax also tends to zero until
eventually Vmax is less than stall speed (Vs).  Thus the minimum allowable
value of Vv/V occurs when Vmax = Vs. For the unpowered glider,

Vs = (Lwt / Lift Area) * Sl * Rs				(eqn 4.0, p. 133)

Set Vmax = Vs, and

(Vv/V)^1/2 * (7,500 * Lwt / Adr)^1/2 = (Lwt / Lift Area) * Sl * Rs
										(eqn 5.0)

GURPS Traveller sets some parameters for standard hulls:  Very Good
streamlining, Lifting Body option, no Responsive Hulls.  This allows us to
simplify 5.0 to

(Vv/V)^1/2 * (37,500 * Lwt / Sa)^1/2 = (Lwt / 0.3Sa) * 2.2	(eqn 5.1)

where Sa is hull surface area.  So

Vv/V = 0.00143 Lwt / Sa

for a minimum dive angle to maintain Vmax = Vs.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 20:16:45 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller Ship Design: Bays 

> 
> > Personally, I think the 20 space bay is a typo. The numbers look like
> they are
> > trying to stay consistent with CT bk 2 and HG; ie 1 displacement ton for
> a
> > turret hardpoint (with room for three weapons), and 50 displacement tons
> for a
> > bay. 
> 
> Nope, it isn't a typo. David Pulver said he designed them that way
> intentionally, seeing the bay more as a big turret with crew inside it
> (kinda like a cupola, I thought.) The 20 spaces inside the ship are
> basically for the support machinery and "rotation space".

I've always treated bays as being internal to the ship.  And I'll continue to
do so.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:22:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller Ship Design: Bays 

Keven R. Pittsinger writes:
> 
> I've always treated bays as being internal to the ship.  And I'll continue
> to do so. 

If you wish to you can.  In that case apply the following mods:
a)  Take up 50 spaces each.
b)  Significantly reduced field of fire (roughly 90 degree arc of fire).  This
does not affect missile launchers.
c)  Do not add any surface area.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1185
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Monday, November 23 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1186



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Mass combat system for Traveller
GURPS Traveller Ship Design Bays
Re: GURPS Traveller Ship Design: Bays 
Re: Stellar Diamiter
Re: bays in G:T
Re: Hi tech merchants
Re: Comments on G:T Decafreighter
Re: Starship economics
From the Friday night game
Average temperature of Earth?
GURPS: Traveller PBEM game.
re: Longbow
Re: Starship economics

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 20:33:42 EST
From: CPsyop@aol.com
Subject: Re: Mass combat system for Traveller

In a message dated 11/23/98 2:52:39 PM Pacific Standard Time,
swordworlder@yahoo.com writes:

> ---"Volker A. Greimann" <greimann@geocities.com> wrote:
>  > At 10:58 21.11.98 +0000, you wrote:
>  > >
>  > >BITS has also started work on a development of FT for Traveller - the
>  > >combat system has been modified to give a Traveller feel, and the ship
>  > >construction system is being changed to match the Fleets Book version.
>  > Hmm, i´v just started playing FT and am greatly enjoying it.
>  > When will your book be published? I am already hungering for it!
>  
>  Well, here I am again, out of the loop.  What's FT?  Must be a generic
>  system, eh?
>  

FT stands for Full Thrust, a set of simple rules for starship minitures done
by Ground Zero Games.  While there is a semi-official background, the rules
are designed to be generic and the mechanics are very open for tinkering if
you wish to create just the right feel for whatever universe you wish to
simulate.  Current rules sets I've come across on the Net include Starcruiser
Yamato/Starblazers, Traveller, Star Trek, Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica,
Macross, Mobile Suit GUNDAM, Babylon 5 (and the official fleet sim for the B5
RPG uses Full Thrust), Battlefleet Gothic, and Starfleet Wars.  You can find a
good starting point at http://www.uwm.edu/~cthulhu/FT/index.htm with an
overview of the game at Introductions.  Two links to Traveller rules sets are
also here and as others on the ML have stated there is another floating around
out there (which BTW I'd really like to see if someone would be kind enough to
send me a link/URL or the file;  thanks in advance).

As an aside, the creator of Full Thrust, Jon Tuffley, also has two ground
combat games with Dirtside II and Stargrunt II.  While the nominally generic
they are a bit more complex in the mechanics then Full Thrust and lend
themselves more to a tech level as seen in 2300 AD or the Aliens universe, but
again rules sets are out there and the mechanics can be played with easily
enough to do TL14-15 combat.

Now we return you to your regularly scheduled Traveller discussions.....

Chris Ruhl
SGT USAR
301st PSYOP Company (Airborne)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 20:31:10 -0500
From: "Paul Schirf" <pc@PerkWorks.com>
Subject: GURPS Traveller Ship Design Bays

>Nope, it isn't a typo. David Pulver said he designed them that way
>intentionally, seeing the bay more as a big turret with crew inside it
>(kinda like a cupola, I thought.) The 20 spaces inside the ship are
>basically for the support machinery and "rotation space".


Which, of course, is totally different from High Guard... 
where they are internal as described:

"Weapons may be mounted *in* bays, large areas near
the skin of the ship's hull."

"Empty weapons bays may be put to a variety of uses,
such as holding small craft, or storing cargo."

Bays are obviously internal, given the description for
turrets:

"Weapons may be mounted in turrets emplaced *on*
the hull."

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:54:52 -0800
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller Ship Design: Bays 

- -----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller Ship Design: Bays


>Keven R. Pittsinger writes:
>>
>> I've always treated bays as being internal to the ship.  And I'll continue
>> to do so.
>
>If you wish to you can.  In that case apply the following mods:
>a)  Take up 50 spaces each.
>b)  Significantly reduced field of fire (roughly 90 degree arc of fire). This
>does not affect missile launchers.
>c)  Do not add any surface area.
>

Would that be for the 50 ton bay or the 100 ton bay?

douglas


E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas
IMTU: tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls
The early bird gets the worm, BUT
   the second mouse gets the cheese!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:02:55 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Stellar Diamiter

In mail you write:

> I've had a quick look through WBH and have found the Stellar mass tables,
> but could not find anything for Stellar Diamiter.
>
> Did I miss something ? If not is there any way to generate, or gage
> stellar diamiter from Stellar mass or stellar type ?

Welcome to the real world! :-)

The diameter of a star depends on its mass *and* its age. Stellar type
will give you *some* guide to the likely diameter.
 
- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:28:17
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: bays in G:T

>From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>

>Nope, it isn't a typo. David Pulver said he designed them that way
>intentionally, seeing the bay more as a big turret with crew inside it
>(kinda like a cupola, I thought.) The 20 spaces inside the ship are
>basically for the support machinery and "rotation space".
>

No, it's a typo.

Otherwise, we have to assume that 

1) very heavily armoured ships magically get armour over their bays for
free, and

2) all jump ships with bays magically get more efficient jump drives (or
that jump ships without bays install bigger jump drives than they need)

While we are fixing up typos, you missed explicity stating the minimum hull
size needed to install bays (otherwise FS is building a 40 dton Heavy
Fighter with a PAW bay bigger than it is).

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:46:07
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Hi tech merchants

>From: DustyLV769@aol.com
>Subject: Re: Smuggling
>
>	Depending on what flavor of Trav you enjoy, starships have always been built
>at the highest possible TLs avail (CT/MT had all TL 15 designs...TNE had
>mostly TL12-15, depending on where you played, and even T4 built ships at
>TL12...couldn't have been many TL12 worlds in the early days.)  They must
have
>been able to maintain them at lower TLs...I don't know if this is canon, but
>it seems a vitally necessary assumption;  otherwise ships would be tied to
the
>worlds where they were built.
>

Traveller canon seems to have been written by people who did not ahhhh have
the grounding in either history or economics to predict the natural
concequences of having free trade and different TL planets. The touching
attachment to Cr 1000/dton/jump (regardless of length) is an indication of
this.

On to your specific points.

Firstly, it's not a big deal to find a hi-tech world to do maintainence at.
A ship needs 2 weeks in 52 of maintainence, which means with a little
planning it isnt a problem.

Secondly, lower tech worlds will have lower-value currencies, but their
ships will presumably be paid in the same hard currency the hi-tech
freighters get paid in. Given that (under all flavours of Trav) higher tech
freighters are only marginally more efficient than lower tech freighters,
cheaper lo-tech freighters will dominate, except for the Express Package
business (i.e. jump-4 and up).

On the other hand, hi tech military ships are far better, so logically the
lo-tech shipyards build merchant ships, and the hi tech yards build
military ships.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:49:58
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Comments on G:T Decafreighter

>From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
>Subject: Deca-class freighters
>
>First, there is this rumour that ship costs have gone down in G:T. They
>havent - the fact you dont have to buy a power plant is compensated for by
>the fact you do have to pay for fuel tankage (and serious money, too). You
>seem to need more maneuver drives under G:T as well.
>**************8
>the costs on some of the ships have gone down.  A free trader for example
>is only 27MCr.  Fuel tankage can add up, and more manuver dirves are needed
>because you need to provide thrust for the mass of the ship ratehr than the
>volume.
>

I cant put this politely. Too many ships in canon were not optimised in
terms of price.

BTW, thrust has been based on mass since FFS v1. Incidentally, I dont like
cargo to be assumed at 5t per dton ... that is about 0.3 t/m3, which is
lower than I think most commodities would be.

>
>
>Secondly, streamlining is vicious in G:T, at 20% of total volume, no
>discounts. Unless this has been errata'd, I would argue it should be a 20%
>increase in surface area (in effect, a 20% loss of DR), with no effect on
>volume as such. Volume is only really a concept that applies in jump space,
>and jump space doesnt care what shape you are, just how much volume you
>take up.
>************
>What is actualy is is a 25% increase in surface area, with the effect of
>taking up more room in a spacedock and having to extend the jump feild to
>cover the streamlined shape.

It's a change in canon I dont like. The G:T rules as they stand make
planetfall-capable merchants too inefficient, and we want to encourage
ships that can make planetfall themselves, rather than stay in orbit and
have big interface shuttles come up to meet them.

Anyway, a mostly smooth sphere or cylinder should be capable of making
planetfall with contragravity, as long as you didnt leave too many bits
sticking out.

>
>
>
>
>OK, now the GT Decafreighter (GTL 10).
>
>Hull : 170 t, MCr 8.5
>20 000t armour : 20 000t, MCr 60 <DR 2353>
>*************
>Way too much DR, the 'min' for the ships is 100, this a DR I would expect
>on a warship. DR of 2100 is enough to stop average damage from a TL10
>Laser.
>
>

It's meant to be very hard to hurt with TL10 lasers. I'm not even sure that
DR2100 is thick enough.

>Utility : 1 dt, 11.5 t, MCr 0.3
>**********8
>20 of these are needed to provide for the entire ship. They are of real use
>in the cargo bay as they prevent shifiting of cargo.
>

Fine.

>
>PAW Bay : 50 dt, 467t, MCr 22.9
>10 Triple Lasers : 10 dt, 319t, MCr 20.4
>*************
>consider traading the PA bay for 10 triple sandcaster turrets, very helpful
>in PD.
>

Considered, and filed under 'Famile Spofulam Built Me'. It is FS, so it has
a Honking Big Particle Accelerator. The ship is meant to intimidate the
crap out of ethically challenged civilians. If they are forced to stay at
long range, then our odds of surviving long enough for the cavalry to
arrive are improved.

10 laser turrets will give the point defense, plus my reading of the combat
rules indicate missiles can ram other missiles, and we will have missile
parity against most things.

>Also consider heavy compartmentalization.
>

Considered and abandoned. The theory is a hard shell, and soft inside.

>
>
>Crew is : 52 - 8 Command, 22 Maneuver, 8 Jump, 2 Missile, 2 PAW, 10
>Lasers/Stewards. 8 single staterooms, 22 double staterooms. 120 passengers.
>*************8
>I get (Assuming 8 command are Captain, 1st O, 2 Pilots, 2 Sensor and 2
>commo) 27 Engineering, 13 gunners (PAW needs only one) for 4 single
>(Captain, 1st O, Cheif Engineer, and Head Steward/Gunner) and 22 double.
>You can add 8 Steward/Cargo, and keep the passengers the same.
>
>Remember that you can carry 240 middle passangers instead fo high.

No you cant. Not charging Cr 8000 a passage you cant - the economics rules
are broken enough to start with, doubling the density of middle passenger
biofreight makes them into even more of a sick joke than they are (and I'm
referring to the Traveller trade and freight rules, not the half page job
in G:T).

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:06:57
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Starship economics

>From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
>Subject: re: Starship Economics
>n to go through.
>
>The idea of the self-escorting Naval Auxiliary is interesting, it costs
>quite a bit more to put that missile bay in a 1500-2500dtn hull of
>it's own (an escort frigate).
>

On the other hand, the escort frigate is more flexible, and has the agility
to keep the missile bay in the game.

>From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
>Subject: Re: Starship Economics
>
>        Well, our MCr4475.95 National, if bought at a TL11 Class A port in a
>TL15 game, costs MCr2685.57.  This makes the PPT Breakpoint a very
>easy-to-swallow Cr748/ton.  So, at our broken Cr1000/ton, we make MCr35 per
>year, and at Cr250 + Cr500/parsec we make MCr70 per year, and at Cr750 +
>Cr500/parsec we make MCr140 per year.  Those are then 1%, 3% and 5% rates of
>return, respectively.
>

*grin* 3% rate of return :) About the long-run average rate of interest
over the last 500 years, actually.

>>One of the concequences of technological development in Traveller is that
>>transport costs go down. I dont know what the exact numbers are, but it is
>>true as a trend.
>>
>
>        Hmmm...  canon reference for this, or is it a Mod?  I have been
>thinking this would be the case, but nothing in anything I have read seems
>to allow for it.  I might build a table or equation based on max TL vs area
>TL giving PPT base.
>

Note I said costs, not prices. 

>>HG has those lovely 'Fuel Tanks Shattered' crits, doesnt it ... what are
>>the odds of at least one of those corsairs being left for dead in the
>>water, ready for boarding ? Adds insult to injury for the pirates when the
>>freighter boards *them*, doesnt it ...
>
>        Hmmm...   Interesting way to pay for repairs, what?  Drag a ~180MCr
>Corsair in for sale as salvage and turn the crew over to collect any rewards.

*nods* A National has 29 crew, right ? So assuming you get half value for
one badly-treated, last-owner-careless Corsair, and the crew get to split
10% as their share, then they get a Holiday bonus of ... about Cr 250 000
each.

"This is National Class Vengence, calling pirates ... CQ, CQ ... we need
Holiday bonuses ... main drive is one gee ... missile bay is responding ...
CQ ... cabin pressure is good ... please respond ... this is National Class
Vengence ...'

>        I think something between first and last.  Riskier areas cost more,
>and you are more liable to have organized covoys protected by SDB's or
>destroyers between the jump-point, gas giant and the main world;  convoy
>protection paid for by the system that otherwise wouldn't see anything but
>smugglers.
>

Fair enough. Remember, pirates have to have cargo bays and jump drives, and
SDBs dont.

>>The next question is what percentage of those pirates are hard enough to
>>take on a National class ? Piracy is a business, and I can see a big
>>downside in tangling with something like a National ...
>
>       See above comments =).  Again, IMTU, since the Terran Sphere is very
>young (85 years since jump technology went public), ship sizes are *small*
>compared to the Imperium.  The UN-Deep Space Navy's pride and joy is the
>"County"-class striker carrier at a whooping 1200 dtons, packing more
>firepower than any three patrol cruisers and an unbelieveable 30 "Typhoon"
>class fighters!

Incidentally, what does a County class cost ?

>        You could hangar three of these in the cargo bay of the National.
>        Now, in about 100 years, after the scheduled war is over and the
>panic of trying to build bigger and better capital ships is over, we'll be
>seeing the odd 100Kdton dreadnaught, and the odd 10Kdton merchant at the
>Frontier.
>        In the meantime, it is 200-ton frieghters, 300-ton escorts and
>400-ton patrol cruisers and corsairs.  In short, MTU is the *perfect*
>climate for smuggling and piracy/privateering.  There are no x-boats,
>maximum jump is 2, starving under-defended colonies all over the Fronier,
>and the Core a comfortable 3+ months away at maximum speed.  Local corporate
>facility administrators being the un-monitored Top Dog over an entire star
>system, save the odd review by an out-of-favor UN Political Officer and
>visit by an UN-CMC Corp on "excercise".  Think Spanish Carribean, circa
1700's.
>

One of the concequences of commerce raiding is a fairly vicious
evolutionary progress towards more defensible ships.

In HG terms, defensible means bigger, because of the relationship between
size and critical hits, and computer power and defensibility.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:56:02 -0800
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: From the Friday night game

I had a good time this past Friday...

I decided to start a M:0 campaign (must remember to update my campaign
listing out on Rob's page...) - I don't know why, it just suddenly seemed
like a good time.  IG is out of the picture, T:G seems to have taken over
the M:1100 slot I enjoy, T5 is looming on the horizon.

Call me contrary - I just browbeat my players into a M:0 campaign.  :)

This past Friday, they left the Imperial borders behind, and ventured
seriously into the wilds.  They are travelling in a 200 dTon Free Trader,
and I thought that they really needed to know that the "Rules Had Changed".
So I threw in a pirate encounter.  Not with the pirate, but with the victim
(a 400 dTon 'Fat' trader...)

The system they jumped into was BA - no population, but between two
populated systems.  It's on a main, so if there is anywhere that would have
traffic, that would be the place.  And the mainworld, while not particularly
pleasant, is habitable for short periods of time.

One of things that I have given a lot of thought on is how commerce works
when the Imperium is not around to supply a banking system.  Ships,
especially out on the fringes, have to carry enough wealth to cover
expenses, and it has to be transportable.  The 'Imperial Visa Card' won't
cut it, Imperial Credits are a curiosity.  And freight cargo (i.e. the cargo
you just haul, but someone else owns) is going to be few and far between -
except in pocket empires.  So the tramp ships have to be carrying a fair
amount of valuables to cover expenses.

So, says I, while I'm putting the game together, what are pirates after?
Cargo - if it's valuable.  The Strongbox/room (there has to be enough
valuables to keep the ship going through a few bad ports, it has to be small
and transportable enough to not take up a lot of room, and it has to have a
universal value that can be converted on virtually any planet.)  And
entertainment....

They knew the ship was in trouble as they approached it.  It was in a slow,
3 axis spin (deadman's tumble), with the bow doors open and cargo containers
floating around the ship.  There were hull breaches around engineering, and
enough residual H2 detectable that it was evident that at least one of the
fuel tanks had been damaged.

There was a brief discussion about trying to dock - but it was tabled after
I started smiling...  They donned suits and jumped for the center of mass.
(There was also some discussion about just shooting a line attached to a
magnet to the ship and letting the motion 'reel' the person in.  Funny,
everyone wanted someone else to try it, but no one wanted to be the one...)

They entered through engineering, on the starboard wing.  Power was almost
exhausted, so they had to use the manual systems to open the sphincter
hatches (600 turns of that little knob down there...).  Once inside the
starboard M-drive room, they found a handle for the hatch - which made it a
lot easier - and opened up the hatch to the cargo bay.

The cargo bay was a mess - the cargo modules had been moved around and not
re-secured to the deck.  Once the floor fields had lost power, the
centrifical force of the spin had caused the cargo to shift aft and to port,
pretty much at random.  They were unable to access the manifests, because
the computers were down (no power).  Plus, they were working pretty much by
flashlight.  One of the party elected to stay here and try and figure out if
there was anything left.

The rest of the party headed to the upper decks through engineering.  They
were not pleased.  Engineering was open to space, and the J-drive obviously
had taken one or more hits.  It looked like the Power Plant was intact - but
most of the breakers had been tripped.  The engineer started working on
this, while the Pilot decided to work forward.

This is where I really started questioning the players.  They had one person
(alone) down in the cargo bay, one person (alone) in engineering and one
person (alone) working his way forward.  Because they were trying to
re-pressure the ship, they kept closing the hatches (and I kept stressing
that it takes about 5 minutes to open the darn things manually), but they
were really into it.

[(sigh)  I should have done the hungry, carbon-lifeform-eating, space
creature scenario instead...]

Anyway, forward of engineering there is still pressure.  The after third of
the passenger area decompresses when he opens the sphincter hatch from
engineering, but no one is there anyway.  He closes the hatch and moves
forward to the next - noting as he does that every cabin door seems to have
been blown open by a small application of explosives.  (C4 on the latch)
After opening the next hatch, he is suddenly operating a Vacc Suit in a half
atmosphere - but very cold.  He elects to keep his helmet on (a very smart
idea as it turns out) and moves forward into the lounge.

There he finds the passengers.  It wasn't pretty.

Continuing forward, he enters the bridge.  The same person who opened all
the passenger doors apparantly removed the storage media from the computers.
They are totalled.  There is some spalling on the interior of the
viewscreens - small arms fire.  They still have not located the crew.

At this point, they decide to see if they can get the power plant back up
and restart life support.  While the two engineering types work on the
plant, the third removes the bodies to several of the staterooms and looks
around some more.  One of the places he goes is to the low berth area - and
there he finds the crew.  6 of the low berths were disabled (small arms fire
into the control panels) and the tops were welded shut.

Finally, they get the power plant back online.  The breakers for the Port
M-Drive will not stay closed (visual inspection shows that it will need
shipyard repairs), sensors are dead, J-Drive is out, and while they can get
pressure, there is no heat or air treatment available.  And while they can
get power to the starboard M-Drive, the control circuits from the bridge to
the drive are non-operative.

While they are tracing this problem, it takes them back into the low-berth
room.  One low berth is showing green.  This is a bit startling, since the
ship appears to be very, very dead - so they get the doctor up there quick.
Sure enough, now that there is power, it appears that the occupant of this
berth is alive!

But every other occupant of every other berth is dead.

Suspicious, the doctor checks the berth log.  The occupant is 21 years old,
170 lbs (don't ask me to convert - I can't) entered the berth at the last
port of call.  Scrolling back, he finds that this berth has been
consistantly used for every jump as far back as the log goes.  And the
lifesigns are all reading well within the norms for the body type.
Everything is completely normal.  They can see the shape of a body through
the frosting on the panel, the emergency batteries seem to be charging back
up from flat.

Too make a long story short, the low berth is a dummy.  The body in there is
a manican, and the readings are such that they should never take a second
glance.  Once they got the berth opened up, they found the equivalent of
cr150,000 in gems, metal (lanthanum), and various planetary currency (no
good anywhere else) in the base of the berth.  And, having moved it to their
own ship, they now have (for as long as they keep their mouths shut) a
pretty secure strongbox.

douglas

E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas
IMTU: tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls
The early bird gets the worm, BUT
   the second mouse gets the cheese!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 21:21:10 -0500
From: Martyn Wheeler <pixie@interpath.com>
Subject: Average temperature of Earth?

Somewhere since the last time I did a massive generation of star systems
under WBH, I have forgotten what the average temperature of Earth is (at
hex row 4, of course ;-) ).  I can't remember whether it's 5C, 10C, 15C,
or what, so I don't have a solid handle on which worlds are "hot" and
which ones "cold".

Anyone have a pointer to this information?

Martyn
 ----pixie@interpath.com----Martyn Wheeler----DoD #293----1kspt=25-----
"Touch me with your soul, Bless me with your smile        / traci lords
 Give to me all your love, Baby watch me fly, watch me fly!"
   "High and wide open, reaching forever, I fly into the blue" -- Moby

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 22:20:18 -0500
From: Brandon Quina <lore@tmgbbs.com>
Subject: GURPS: Traveller PBEM game.

Hey everybody.  I *might* be running a GURPS: Traveller PBEM
game.  Rather or not I actually do or not depends on how many potential
players I get, how many of them I accept, and other factors such as
the vagaries of school (how many classes I take next term) and afew
other things.  If you're willing to gamble, and want to play in a
game of GURPS: Traveller, then send me a character.  If you don't know
much about traveller but still want to play, we can work something
out so don't worry.

	If you've played a PBEM game with me before, then you probally
know that I dropped it and left you hanging.  I, apparently, didn't
even say goodbye due to some computer errors (or atleast, afew of the
players said so).  I've learned alot from afew failed attempts, and
have ran a successful PBEM game in the meantime.  :)


	Anyways, if you're still with me, and you're intrested, just
send me answers to the following questions....


1)	How much experience do you have with Traveller, in any
	of its incarnations?

	1a)	Are you likly to get upset if I make afew mistakes
		regarding the setting, or if I change afew things?

	1b)	What is your favorite part of Traveller?  What do you
		think seperates it from other sci-fi settings?

2)	How much experience do you have with the GURPS system?

	1a)	Do you perfer copious amounts of detail and realism
		with you RPGs, or do you perfer the story over rules?

	1b)	Are you likly to be uncomfortable with a storyteller
		who doesn't own every GURPs book and generally plays
		fast and loose with the rules?

3)	What kind of character concept do you think you might be
	intrested in playing?  Feel free to give me more than one
	answer, and give as much detail as possible.  Try to keep it
	shorter than one paragraph, though I won't mind if you go over.

4)	Do you have any questions?  Include them here.  :)




- -- 
Brandon,

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 19:25:57 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: Longbow

>I took a quick look at the Very Large Array's web site. 

> the proportion
>of GDP the Imperium spent on Longbow would be roughly equivalent to
>the US having built three VLAs.

If you were to take the amount the US spends on a recon satellite, or a 
ballistic-missile-early-warning radar (billion dollar assets even in
1972 dollars), you could probably end up with a Longbow array rated
at 17.0 sensitivity, which would make its life easier...

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 00:23:29 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Starship economics

At 10:06 AM 24/11/98, you wrote:
>
>>From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
>>Subject: re: Starship Economics
>>
>>The idea of the self-escorting Naval Auxiliary is interesting, it costs
>>quite a bit more to put that missile bay in a 1500-2500dtn hull of
>>it's own (an escort frigate).
>>
>
>On the other hand, the escort frigate is more flexible, and has the agility
>to keep the missile bay in the game.

        Speficically, it can intercept an agressor while the protected asset
continues making for safe port.

>>From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
>>Subject: Re: Starship Economics
>>
>>        Well, our MCr4475.95 National, if bought at a TL11 Class A port in a
>>TL15 game, costs MCr2685.57.  This makes the PPT Breakpoint a very
>>easy-to-swallow Cr748/ton.  So, at our broken Cr1000/ton, we make MCr35 per
>>year, and at Cr250 + Cr500/parsec we make MCr70 per year, and at Cr750 +
>>Cr500/parsec we make MCr140 per year.  Those are then 1%, 3% and 5% rates of
>>return, respectively.
>
>*grin* 3% rate of return :) About the long-run average rate of interest
>over the last 500 years, actually.

        Which is fine, but what about a TL 11 ship bought in a TL 11 game?
No price break....  And we're back to loosing money at a time when it is
most critical to development.

>>>HG has those lovely 'Fuel Tanks Shattered' crits, doesnt it ... what are
>>>the odds of at least one of those corsairs being left for dead in the
>>>water, ready for boarding ? Adds insult to injury for the pirates when the
>>>freighter boards *them*, doesnt it ...
>>
>>        Hmmm...   Interesting way to pay for repairs, what?  Drag a ~180MCr
>>Corsair in for sale as salvage and turn the crew over to collect any rewards.
>
>*nods* A National has 29 crew, right ? So assuming you get half value for
>one badly-treated, last-owner-careless Corsair, and the crew get to split
>10% as their share, then they get a Holiday bonus of ... about Cr 250 000
>each.
>
>"This is National Class Vengence, calling pirates ... CQ, CQ ... we need
>Holiday bonuses ... main drive is one gee ... missile bay is responding ...
>CQ ... cabin pressure is good ... please respond ... this is National Class
>Vengence ...'

        ROTFL so hard my wife stuck her head in the computer room to see
what I was reading...

>>        I think something between first and last.  Riskier areas cost more,
>>and you are more liable to have organized covoys protected by SDB's or
>>destroyers between the jump-point, gas giant and the main world;  convoy
>>protection paid for by the system that otherwise wouldn't see anything but
>>smugglers.
>>
>Fair enough. Remember, pirates have to have cargo bays and jump drives, and
>SDBs dont.
>

        Yep...  I'll drop the design for the Jewel-Class UN Near Space Navy
Attack Ship on the list one of these days...  mean little monster, even at TL10.

>>>The next question is what percentage of those pirates are hard enough to
>>>take on a National class ? Piracy is a business, and I can see a big
>>>downside in tangling with something like a National ...
>>
>>       See above comments =).  Again, IMTU, since the Terran Sphere is very
>>young (85 years since jump technology went public), ship sizes are *small*
>>compared to the Imperium.  The UN-Deep Space Navy's pride and joy is the
>>"County"-class striker carrier at a whooping 1200 dtons, packing more
>>firepower than any three patrol cruisers and an unbelieveable 30 "Typhoon"
>>class fighters!
>
>Incidentally, what does a County class cost ?

        I haven't got the design handy to me right now, but I will check...
it seems to me to be in the ~MCr1000 range...

>>        You could hangar three of these in the cargo bay of the National.
>>        Now, in about 100 years, after the scheduled war is over and the
>>panic of trying to build bigger and better capital ships is over, we'll be
>>seeing the odd 100Kdton dreadnaught, and the odd 10Kdton merchant at the
>>Frontier.
>>        In the meantime, it is 200-ton frieghters, 300-ton escorts and
>>400-ton patrol cruisers and corsairs.  In short, MTU is the *perfect*
>>climate for smuggling and piracy/privateering.  There are no x-boats,
>>maximum jump is 2, starving under-defended colonies all over the Fronier,
>>and the Core a comfortable 3+ months away at maximum speed.  Local corporate
>>facility administrators being the un-monitored Top Dog over an entire star
>>system, save the odd review by an out-of-favor UN Political Officer and
>>visit by an UN-CMC Corp on "excercise".  Think Spanish Carribean, circa
>1700's.
>>
>
>One of the concequences of commerce raiding is a fairly vicious
>evolutionary progress towards more defensible ships.
>
>In HG terms, defensible means bigger, because of the relationship between
>size and critical hits, and computer power and defensibility.
>

        Agreed whole heartedly.  Like I say, it's gonna take about 100 years
for all the lessons of the 3I's Naval Design Doctrine to get learned by the
Terran Sphere.  
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1186
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, November 24 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1187



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Languages in Traveller
Re: National class
Re: What'
Re: What's a LEO?
Languages...
Imperium
Re: Hi tech merchants
Re: Neural Scanners & Low Berths
Re: What's a LEO?
Re: Express Package business
Re: Ship Design Question
JumpExpress Model E5
JumpExpress Model F5
Re: Smuggling
JumpExpress Model F6
Optimizing Commercial Couriers (was Re: Smuggling)
Re: Smuggling
re : Imperial Bureaucracy

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 00:00:27 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Languages in Traveller

In a message dated 11/23/98 2:23:13 AM Central Standard Time, aramis@gci.net
writes:

<<  Are there any ready information about languages, >>

Draft from the skill chapter for T5

	Language	Int, Edu
	The individual knows one or more languages in addition to his or her native
language. 	When Language is received, the individual selects a specific
foreign language other than his or her native language.
	Native Language. Every character has a native language: the one learned in
childhood and currently used. The level of skill in a native language is equal
to the character’s Intelligence (but never more than 9).
	Default Language. A character’s native language in Traveller is, by default,
Anglic. Anglic is a form of English evolved over the course of thousands of
years and heavily influenced by other languages it has encountered. If a
character does not specifically choose another language, his or her native
language is the default language.
	Format: Record this skill as Language (Specific). For example, Language
(Spanish) or Language (Geonee).
	Available Languages. The following languages are available for selection
(other languages are possible and may be invented and selected).

From Terra	From Other Worlds	From Other Races
Anglic	Vilani	Vargr
Spanish	Suerrat	Aslan
French	Geonee	Droyne
Chinese		Graytch

	Language is a skill in a specific communication language. Linguistics is the
study of language in general.

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 15:02:03
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: National class

>Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 00:23:29 -0400
>From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>

>>>        Well, our MCr4475.95 National, if bought at a TL11 Class A port
in a
>>>TL15 game, costs MCr2685.57.  This makes the PPT Breakpoint a very
>>>easy-to-swallow Cr748/ton.  So, at our broken Cr1000/ton, we make MCr35 per
>>>year, and at Cr250 + Cr500/parsec we make MCr70 per year, and at Cr750 +
>>>Cr500/parsec we make MCr140 per year.  Those are then 1%, 3% and 5%
rates of
>>>return, respectively.
>>
>>*grin* 3% rate of return :) About the long-run average rate of interest
>>over the last 500 years, actually.
>
>        Which is fine, but what about a TL 11 ship bought in a TL 11 game?
>No price break....  And we're back to loosing money at a time when it is
>most critical to development.
>

This is where my comment about a long-run fall in freight rates comes in.
We pitch the rates at a level that makes sense for the Traveller universe
involved, given free markets and efficient starship design. Cr 750 plus Cr
500 per parsec is reasonable at TL11.

Given your level of piracy, I think that risk premiums would actually
dominate over interest costs, so freight costs would higher than this.

The other design of interest is the open-frame carrier design, with a
mixture of fighters and cargo shuttles.

>>One of the concequences of commerce raiding is a fairly vicious
>>evolutionary progress towards more defensible ships.
>>
>>In HG terms, defensible means bigger, because of the relationship between
>>size and critical hits, and computer power and defensibility.
>>
>
>        Agreed whole heartedly.  Like I say, it's gonna take about 100 years
>for all the lessons of the 3I's Naval Design Doctrine to get learned by the
>Terran Sphere. 

The question is, therefore, what is the reaction going to be when rumours
hit the spaceways of Ciergatz SA's massive bond issue, and their investment
in an orbital construction facility for a 10 000 dton ship ?

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 22:13:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Cook <markc@peak.org>
Subject: Re: What'

Seth <Sethkimmel@aol.com> writes:

> Law Enforcement Officer.
> 
> I also agree with the previous poster about this. Most Police Officers
> that I have seen can't shoot worth a d--n (no flames; I was one
> myself). I do not like the idea of a police officer missing a perp and
> putting a high power rifle cartridge through my apartment wall. I wish
> that LEO's would be issued with submachine guns firing pistol
> cartridges instead of rifles and/or carbines as department shoulder
> arms (though I still prefer a good shotgun).

That's a valid sentiment, but I just wish they'd get proficient with
their duty sidearm!  I'm a Class-III owner, competitor, and instructor
(4 full-auto firearms between my wife and I, and #5 is on the way) and
I could tell stories about bad SMG and shotgun handling that would
turn your hair *white*.

I know plenty of highly (firearm) qualified officers, but I also know
about the same percentage that shouldn't be armed with anything more
deadly than beanbag rounds. :^(

        - Mark C.
          Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy
          EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75
          Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR
          NRA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)
          Front Sight First Family member #1

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 mark f. cook * mark cook consulting *  shoestring graphics & printing
 2055 s.w. whiteside dr. * corvallis, or, 97333-1406 * markc@ssgfx.com
 Phone: 541-753-2732      Fax: 541-753-2738       http://www.ssgfx.com
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    > I believe that "decimation" originated with the Roman legions.

    Of course it originated with the Romans! Who else would _need_
    a word that means "kill every tenth person"?  - Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 22:17:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Cook <markc@peak.org>
Subject: Re: What's a LEO?

Seth <Sethkimmel@aol.com> writes:

> Law Enforcement Officer.
> 
> I also agree with the previous poster about this. Most Police Officers
> that I have seen can't shoot worth a d--n (no flames; I was one
> myself). I do not like the idea of a police officer missing a perp and
> putting a high power rifle cartridge through my apartment wall. I wish
> that LEO's would be issued with submachine guns firing pistol
> cartridges instead of rifles and/or carbines as department shoulder
> arms (though I still prefer a good shotgun).

That's a valid sentiment, but I just wish they'd get proficient with
their duty sidearm!  I'm a Class-III owner, competitor, and instructor
(4 full-auto firearms between my wife and I, and #5 is on the way) and
I could tell stories about bad SMG and shotgun handling that would
turn your hair *white*.  The problem with most shooters is a snap
perception issue: in a fight-or-flight situation, if they see an
opaque object (wall, car, hedge) behind their target, they tend to
treat it like Mt. Rushmore WRT to slug-stopping ability.  Usually,
the ability is more like Kleenex.  This is particularly true for
shotgun slugs vs. sheetrock interior residential walls.  A human
body has a lot more "stopping power" but you have to hit it solidly
and consistantly.

I know plenty of highly (firearm) qualified officers, but I also know
about the same percentage that shouldn't be armed with anything more
deadly than beanbag rounds. :^(

        - Mark C.
          Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy
          EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75
          Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR
          NRA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)
          Front Sight First Family member #1

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 mark f. cook * mark cook consulting *  shoestring graphics & printing
 2055 s.w. whiteside dr. * corvallis, or, 97333-1406 * markc@ssgfx.com
 Phone: 541-753-2732      Fax: 541-753-2738       http://www.ssgfx.com
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    > I believe that "decimation" originated with the Roman legions.

    Of course it originated with the Romans! Who else would _need_
    a word that means "kill every tenth person"?  - Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 01:31:47 -0500
From: Brandon Quina <lore@tmgbbs.com>
Subject: Languages...

Here are my views on languages.  There abit diffrent from the ones
described by mostly everybody else.  I've tried to include both the
name of the language, its origins, its common users, how common it
is, and possibly afew short words.  (NOTE:  The names are somewhat
changed for the same reason its 'Anglic' as opposed to 'English')


TERRAN LANGUAGES:
	The Terrans used to have countless languages, but ever since
their contact with the Vilani the number has been slowly going down.
In time, they'll probally find themselves with one or two languages.
Currently, Anglic seems the most likly canidate due to its support
amoung the Third Imperium.

Anglic:
	This language evolved from old Terran English, though it has
undergone so many changes that it's only barely recognizable.  It has
been heavily influenced by many human languages, particularly the old
Vilani high tounge.  It is the official language of the Third Imperium,
and is also well known in neighboring empires.

Espaneol:
	This language evolved from old Terran Spanish, with some
influence from other prominate european languages of the time.  It
is still very much a Terran language, and is still very simliar to
old Terran Spanish.  It is spoken primarily in the Solomani Rim and
the Solomani Sphere;  about half of the people of that area have
Espaneol as a native tounge, the other half having Anglic instead.

Oriental:
	The Asian presence in space was fairly large, and a number of
them were resistant to the adoption of English as a native language.
None the less, the many languages that existed were somewhat ineffective
at communication.  Oriental is the responce that the need for both a
distinctive language all of their own, and the need to communicatate.
It has its roots primarily in Chinese, but has strong influences from
most other Asian languages.  It is the third most popular language in
the Solomani regions and the Third Imperium.

Russian:
	 This language has stayed remarkably simliar to its old
Terran ancestor, the Russian language.  It's been influenced, somewhat,
by other languages, but a goodly percentage of the words would still
be recognizable by a speaker of Old Terran Russian.  The language
is somewhat rare, but it has managed to survive long enough to be
considered one of the Old Terran languages.

(OTHER TERRAN LANGAGES:  There are afew other Old Terran languages, but
their use is exceptionally rare.  Generally, anyone who speaks them is
either a native of the planet where they are spoken, or has lived there
so long that he might as well be such.)


VILANI LANGUAGES
	The Vilani used to have more than one language, though they
never had many of them.  In the days of the Ziru Sirka, the number of
languages dwindled as the Vilani realized that it was more efficient
to have only one language.  By the time the Terrans encountered the
Vilani, they all spoken the language that has come to be known as
Old High Vlandi.  It is now mostly known as simply Vlandi.

VARGR LANGUAGES
	The Vargr have several dozen, if not several hundred, languages.
Each planet on which the Vargr were seeded ended up with several various
languages, and those languages never died out like many of the 'old
languages' of other Major Races.  Instead, they just changed abit over
the years.  The only change in their pattern of communication came
about around 1000 years ago, when an unsuccessful attempt at a Vargr
empire left behind one thing:  Gveh.  Gveh is a very simple language,
and can only be used to communicate very simple concepts.  However,
a great enough percentage of Vargr in the Vargr extents speak the
language such that it is a suitable method of inter-race communication.
Vargr generally either known Anglic as their native language, or they
known *two* native languages (give them the second for free).  The
first language being their native language, and only usuable to
communicate with a small percentage of the Vargr population.  The
second one is Gveh, which can be used to communicate with a much
greater percentage;  but only very simply.




- -- 
Brandon,
That's all for now.  If this is well recieved, I might send more to
the list.  ::smiles::

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 01:00:53 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Imperium

Hi all,

I finally played my first game of Imperium on Sunday, which was an
interesting experience. I got to play the Vilani, and my friend the Terrans.

It was interesting - his initial expansion was out towards Barnards' Star
and the World at the end of that arm, with a blocking maneuver at Proycon
past the tanker tertiary hex at Sirius.

I hit that then followed up with a second phase movement where I
neutralised his colony with a landing. I suspect that was a mistake and I
should have hit Sol and Alpha instead.

Anyway, it see-sawed and the end result was a gain of three outposts by the
Vilani (all connected) with two worlds (the Tau Ceti Group). Terra ended
the first 8 years of war and 12 of peace with the cluster rimward of
Barnards Star (basically three new connected worlds plus a fourth war up
the Proycon Arm, unprotected or connected.

The Vilani won the war with a breakthrough at the 2nd battle of Proycon,
and the destruction of all Terran outposts and the neutralisation of the
Terran world on that arm.

I feel that I won the war, but lost the peace. The Terrans have a
significantly higher RU generation (40 something) to the Vilani budget 13,
with others 26, plus plenty more stars to expand to.

I find myself facing an enemy I can crush at any one battle (unless the
missile boats are out in force) which  is spread thinly across the map. But
a hammer blow isn't effective as any follow up ends the game with a Vilani
win. I feel I need to hit the Terran's hard but loose the war to win the
campaign by gaining in RU sufficient to develop my outposts.

Have any ex-Vilani commanders from Imperium got tips? At the moment I feel
as if I really am the Vilani, not a player. My enemy is starting to out
innovate me, and spreading like wildfire - how do I crush him without
stopping the war and allowing him to consolidate?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 00:16:16 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Hi tech merchants

>From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
>Subject: Re: Hi tech merchants
...
>Traveller canon seems to have been written by people who did not ahhhh have
>the grounding in either history or economics to predict the natural
>concequences of having free trade and different TL planets. The touching
>attachment to Cr 1000/dton/jump (regardless of length) is an indication of
>this.

  To be fair, they probably had a decent enough grasp, but sales-wise
Traveller didn't need to get a reputation as an economic simulation -
the crime and terrorism thing was close enough to D&D and most of the
other RPG's out there to not be an explicit liability, I guess :>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 23:20:06 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Neural Scanners & Low Berths

> From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
> Subject: Neural Scanners & Low Berths
> A question for our gearhead/medics - Would a neural scanner register a
> human in a low berth?
> 
> Dom

Dom, I would have to vote no...  Think about it a neural scanner can only
detect *active* or living life forms...  If it is dead, it don't show up on
a neural scanner...  And being in a Low Berth is as close to being dead
without being dead, as you can get...

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 23:17:54 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: What's a LEO?

>      What is or are LEO's, and should hope it is nothing derogatory.
> 
> Leo

_L_ow _E_arth _O_rbit...

Why do you ask & yes there is something derogatory about it...  It's not a
GEO...  *weg*

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 00:58:56 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Express Package business

>From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
>Subject: Re: Hi tech merchants
...
>freighters get paid in. Given that (under all flavours of Trav) higher tech
>freighters are only marginally more efficient than lower tech freighters,
>cheaper lo-tech freighters will dominate, except for the Express Package
>business (i.e. jump-4 and up).

                XP-1641441-030000-20000-0       MCr 87.75       100 tons
        batteries bearing   1     1                               TL=13
                batteries   1     1                             Crew=2
        Cargo=7. Fuel=44. EP=4. Agility=1.

  A potential JumpExpress Model D Provincial Courier as indicated could be
the type of ship used by an early courier company, and perhaps reflects the
perceived unsettled times after the Civil War; fuel is for one month, both
pilot and gunner have full staterooms, and both offensive and defensive
capabilities are maintained. At J-4, frequency of one per week along the
shortest route from the Marches to Core would require about 100 vessels to
cover both directions and ~10% slop; an equivalent investment to two 10 Kt
provincial freighters, and thus well within the capabilities of many Third
Empire corporations.

  Model Db - eventually some bean-counter will notice that the ship refuels
every 8-9 days anyway, and maybe cut powerplant fuel back to 14-days for a
savings of 4 Dt. Odds are that the gunner will be lost first (4 Dt), and if
the pilots union likes the benefits trade-offs, maybe half of the remaining
stateroom can go too, totalling 6 Dt, or 5.5 if a low berth is added.

  Seeings as the need for the weapons load will decrease, and the pilots
aren't likely going to be trained as ex-fighter jocks, the guns will go
too, for a grand total of a 11.5 Dt extra cargo capacity.

  In any case, the business opportunity lies not in providing daily launches,
but in providing regular, _fast_ service between distant centers. At TL D the
designers have it easy, as the maximum capability will fit into the minimum
hull, even if at somewhat ludicrous cost.

  BTW, the above is about the least cost-efficient XBoat that can be built
under HG - the S:7 ship is an LBB:2 artifact.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 21:14:07 +1300
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: Re: Ship Design Question

>The turrets and bays are external to the ship. the one space is
rotation
>space for the turret and a gunner station.  The turret takes up one
space
>inside the ship, and would provide 3 spaces outside the ship.

That's a prety major change in meaning you have there.

In all previous versions of Traveller "bays" were internal to the
ship.That's what "bay" means after all,  a concavity in the coast.
What you are calling a bay is more correctly called a nacelle.

>The bay works the same way.

The bay doesn't work the same way, it takes up space inside the ship
and merely represents the necessary hardpoints, power routing and C3
gear required to connect weapons and other equipment.

The torpedo room of an attack sub is the T7 equivalent of a missile
bay. The gun decks of a ship of the line are the T5 equivalent, and
the forward phaser banks of the Enterprise A (mounted on the edge of
the disc ) are the TF equivalent.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 01:29:52 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: JumpExpress Model E5

...
>cheaper lo-tech freighters will dominate, except for the Express Package
>business (i.e. jump-4 and up).

  Here's a JumpExpress Model E5 Klingon Frigate ^^^, er... Provincial
Courier:

                XP-1651551-000000-00000-0       MCr 110.8       100 tons
                                                                TL=14
                                                                Crew=1
        Cargo=2. Fuel=52.5. EP=5. Agility=1. Low=1.

  At TL E J-5 models will eventually be adopted, but only slowly at first
due to the capital outlay (less in ships than facilities). Essentially a
redesign of the Db this unit gives the sole crewman a half-stateroom (plus
the contract mandated low berth to compensate for the half fuel load). The
ship can barely achieve this performance envelope, and unless bigger ships
are economic then the cost of express parcels will skyrocket (and even data
charges will increase) although the 25% or greater increase in speed on the
new routes will mitigate this.

  If a Model/5 could fly without a pilot, the company would try it :)

  The type no longer has the combat capability of a small fighter, either.

  In addition to capital costs, the operating expenses of this version would
actually be higher on a per launch basis, and _much_ higher on a per kg of
cargo basis (which ultimately may impact data charges directly). The design
staff probably lynched some accounting or operations staff during the change.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 02:10:03 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: JumpExpress Model F5

...
>cheaper lo-tech freighters will dominate, except for the Express Package
>business (i.e. jump-4 and up).

  Here's a genuinely economical J-5 unit:

        F5      XP-1651551-000000-00000-0       MCr 95.8       100 tons
                                                                TL=15
                                                                Crew=1
        Cargo=7. Fuel=52.5. EP=5. Agility=1. Low=1.

  At TL F the J-5 E5 model is quickly upgraded as new fusion plants are
installed on refitted vessels. Smaller and cheaper, these provide long
term maintenance savings and options for expanded performance.

  Cost per ship is down almost 15%, and cost per ton of cargo by ~75%.

  The F5b loses the low berth, but now regains a months fuel and a
new 2G drive, reducing time to link up with refuellers on bad jumps,
although cargo remains at 2 Dt. Cost is MCr 96.25.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 22:16:13 +1300
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

>  How does one reliably deceive an ID system that incorporates
>a full genetic work-up, within the constraints of known Trav tech?


Simple, just get it say you are someone else.

The better the ID, the more people don't bother checking it.

The clipboard principle always applies.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 02:32:27 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: JumpExpress Model F6

...
>cheaper lo-tech freighters will dominate, except for the Express Package
>business (i.e. jump-4 and up).

  Compared to the F5 this looks badly uneconomic:

        F6      XP-1661661-000000-00000-0       MCr 135.8      140 tons
                                                                TL=15
                                                                Crew=1
        Cargo=1.3. Fuel=63. EP=8.4. Agility=1. Low=1.

  Looking at this design compared to the putative F5, there's a good chance
that bright-eyed optimism may finally be replaced by the "what was good
enough for Gramps Eneri is good enough for me" attitude. This design will
not only involve essentially recapitalizing the entire company just like the
E5 required, but this time at a _much_ greater cost and a simultaneous risk
of losing huge portions of their customer base.

  Cost per ship is up over 40%, and cost per ton of cargo by ~_700_%.

  In addition to the cost and rates issues, the new design would require
not only new routes and facilities but also new equipment - redeployed
tenders or refuellers may not be efficient with the new larger hull.

  Even ignoring specific TU political sanctions, Operations may simply
appoint a middle-manager to arrange for an elite squad of dingo dogs to
destroy the threat R&D now presents to the well-being of the company.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 02:35:30 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Optimizing Commercial Couriers (was Re: Smuggling)

>From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
>Subject: Re: II Re: Smuggling
...
>>>a) you don't need to be that fast to out run mail that
>>>has to wait at each port for available ships.
>
>>  Which presupposes that all such systems are not run for efficiency -
>>which is difficult enough to believe for the X-Boat system (what was it,
>>a theoretical J-2.6 per 7 days average?); a commercial system becomes
>>largely inexplicable under those constraints.
>
>No.  I supposes that the mail distribution systems can't be run
>for maximum efficiency for any particular bit of mail.  If an
>incoming message has to go out to two other systems, forwarding
>to one of the those system is going to have to wait.  If the
>need for mail to be sent back to the original system is greater,
>then they both have to wait.  Unless every bit of mail comes
>into a system with a ship waiting to carry it on to all destination
>systems (and we are talking a lot of ships here) then messages
>are going to have to wait.

  Forgive me for failing to consider that more than a single piece of
mail might go on any given ship. In fact, let's assume that long range
couriers focus on speed (capability greater than J-4, and courses
between sector capitals or the like rationalized for much greater
performance than J-2.6 average), and let launch frequency be determined
by demand and their ability to supply hulls; FWIW, let's assume a working
value of one launch from one center (capital/hi-pop, etc.) to Capital
per week, with intervening stops optimized to hit other such centers.

  If such a service exists, and a strong case can likely be made that 
such a commercial* service should, then long-range transit of important
info (Imperial, commercial, or anything someone pays the premium for)
will occur by such a system, with local dissemination by the X-Boat
network where appropriate.

 * let alone any for Imperial non-Navy functions

  I don't suppose that you could indicate that a "system" of the sort
you describe above would be a superior business at high-speed, long-
range commercial data carriage?

...
>Well, we are talking smuggling here. /...

  If the INI handles much of the anti-piracy effort (and it's more than
slightly ridiculous if they don't) then anti-smuggling data also travels
long-distance on fleet couriers; i.e., once data gets to a regional admin
center it then goes between sectors and ~J-6/week.

  OTOH, smuggling is both harder to detect and lower priority, IMHO.

...
>they detain ships just because they are jump3+, it will
>be of limited use.  (The US knows what kind of boats /...

  Of course it will be of limited use, but it will allow them to
focus assets on perceived threats - in this case the tiny proportion
of ships that are potentially deliberately outrunning their oversight.

...
>How do you stop them without detaining them?

  I was thinking that detaining ships would be restricted to cases
with justifiable cause or accumulated evidence; this is probably
not unreasonable in most campaigns?

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 02:48:10 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Smuggling

>From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
>Subject: Re: Smuggling
...
>>  IIRC, someone claimed that no tramp trader would send a message
>>ahead to announce their intended arrival (plus cargo and passenger
>>manifests where applicable) as it would be unthinkable to send a
>>message via another merchant ship.
...
>Well, lets not confuse "what" is being sent with "how" it is
>being sent.  It can be argued that a merchant wouldn't send messages
>that reveal their future trading plans for fear that the
>unscrupleous would intercept them (perhaps even by x-boat).
>But that say little about how other messages are sent, just
>that merchants don't send those kinds of messages.

  Ah, I've foolishly failed to realize that while merchants won't send
messages ahead (by even two days) to their _announced destination_ (for
their freight contracts and passengers) by other tramp traders it would
make eminent sense for the Imperium to send documents vital to internal
security issues via this method.  

...
>Well, this is subjective.  I find this picture of an Imperium where
>they can track everyone, catch smugglers reliably,
>etc. to be hard to believe in a background where communications
>have to be carried by ship and the interstellar governement
>is supposedly disinterested in local affairs.

  Which doesn't imply that i) the Imperium doesn't care about internal
security matters, and that ii) slow communications means lost messages.
If the Imperium can't track ships using delayed collation of shipping
reports then they're either simply too stupid to be believed or they
must not give a damn at all.

  FWIW, I doubt that a smuggler in the small package trade runs too
much risk either, as long as they're not playing the sort of games
that gets them involved in sting operations, etc.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 20:01:08
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: re : Imperial Bureaucracy

I found this little gem in the depths of Braudel's Meditteranean ...

'Was it from Italy or Spain that the garrison of the fortress of La Goletta
received 2000 pairs of shoes, of good Spanish leather, but in little girls
sizes ?'

He cites a report from about 1543 by Roderigo Cerbantes, plus a file
references to the file in Algeria (p861).

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1187
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, November 24 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1188



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Imperium
Re: Languages in Traveller
Re:  Languages...
Languages in a non-standard TU.
Re: GURPS Traveller Ship Design: Bays 
Re: National class
Re: What's a LEO?
Re: From the Friday night game
Re: Alien Generater
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1182
Re: Capital Ships and Space Opera (Alternity?)
Re: Jump-6 courier networks (Was: Smuggling)
Re:
Re: bays in G:T
re: Ship Design Question
3I ID and Clones

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 20:35:43
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Imperium

>From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
>Subject: Imperium
>
>Hi all,
>
>I finally played my first game of Imperium on Sunday, which was an
>interesting experience. I got to play the Vilani, and my friend the Terrans.
<stuff deleted>

>I find myself facing an enemy I can crush at any one battle (unless the
>missile boats are out in force) which  is spread thinly across the map. But
>a hammer blow isn't effective as any follow up ends the game with a Vilani
>win. I feel I need to hit the Terran's hard but loose the war to win the
>campaign by gaining in RU sufficient to develop my outposts.
>
>Have any ex-Vilani commanders from Imperium got tips? At the moment I feel
>as if I really am the Vilani, not a player. My enemy is starting to out
>innovate me, and spreading like wildfire - how do I crush him without
>stopping the war and allowing him to consolidate?
>
>Dom

OK. The first thing is to remember that you have to capture the Terran
worlds. Outposts can be flattened or captured, but the critical factor for
the Terrans is their ability to actually keep their tax revenue from worlds.

The second thing to remember is if you lose too many wars, you (the
Provincial Governor) lose your job, and get to do the Vilani equivalent of
running a hydroelectric plant in Siberia.

Tactically, think about building up a force of fighters and carriers, to
use as pin forces against his missile boats, allowing your Strike Cruisers
to crush him with impunity.

Jump troops are vital offensively. Make sure you have some on hand.

If you can crush the Terrans in one battle, go for the throat. Set up an
invasion of Terra.

Think of it this way ... if you do a good enough job on Terra, then win or
lose the war, the Solomani are going to remember the Ziru Sirkaa for
another 5000 years ...

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 11:54:50 +0000
From: "Carlos Alos-Ferrer" <Carlos.Alos-Ferrer@univie.ac.at>
Subject: Re: Languages in Traveller

> From: CardSharks@aol.com

>  Format: Record this skill as Language (Specific). For example, Language
> (Spanish) or Language (Geonee).
    *******                      *******
	I find your view on languages extremely interesting... ;-)
	Carlos Alos-Ferrer, a.k.a. the Geonee-maker, and (incidentally) a 
Spaniard <g>.
	(...although IMTU, the evolution of Spanish is called Hispanic, and 
the Geonee's main language is Irkonee)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:09:09 +0000
From: "Carlos Alos-Ferrer" <Carlos.Alos-Ferrer@univie.ac.at>
Subject: Re:  Languages...

> From: Brandon Quina <lore@tmgbbs.com>

> Espaneol:
>  This language evolved from old Terran Spanish, with some
> influence from other prominate european languages of the time.  It
> is still very much a Terran language, and is still very simliar to
> old Terran Spanish.  It is spoken primarily in the Solomani Rim and
> the Solomani Sphere;  about half of the people of that area have
> Espaneol as a native tounge, the other half having Anglic instead.

	Taking into account the amount of planets named after spanish 
provinces or cities throughout the imperium (a fact that probably 
non-Spaniards miss), I would say Espaneol (Hispanic IMTU) may be 
encountered in the whole Imperium, maybe once per each 50 
Anglic-speaking worlds.
	Two good examples are Murcia (HiPop) and Malaga in Massilia sector, 
but I keep finding spanish names in all published materials.

> Oriental:
>  The Asian presence in space was fairly large, and a number of
> them were resistant to the adoption of English as a native language.

	IIRC, there are some references to Delphi being initially settled by 
Asian colonists (I always thought this could be used as an argument 
to justify the corporate views of Margaret). Oriental would be quite 
widespread there.
Carlos Alos-Ferrer
Geonee-Maker and BTE Ref
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/8772

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:15:28 +0000
From: "Carlos Alos-Ferrer" <Carlos.Alos-Ferrer@univie.ac.at>
Subject: Languages in a non-standard TU.

Languages are extremely important IMTU. The Federation comprises 32 
worlds and has 7 official languages, coming from the major races that 
form it: Retani (minor human), terrans, Geonee, Vargr Suedzuk and 
Vargr Urzaeng.

Since Languages are on-topic, I think the following illustrates how I 
use them and why is it important to speak at least a couple of them.

- --------------------------------------------------------
The languages of the Federation
Office KT-47 Internal Document 004

An enormous variety of languages is spoken in the Federation, to an
extent unheard of in other interstellar polities. Citizens of more
"uniform" interstellar nations may be surprised when they realize that
speaking three different languages is often not enough. 

There are seven "official" languages in the Federation, and at least
twenty others are spoken by sizable minorities. Citizens are obliged
to speak at least one of the official languages, but most speak two or
three. Experienced travellers are usually fluent in four languages,
and high-level diplomats are proud to speak at least the seven
official ones. Professional interprets speak between 10 and 20
languages. News tabloids, holorecordings, holoprograms, etc., are
routinely recorded with eight language bands, seven recorded in origin
with the official languages, and one kept empty to be used by local
distributors. Although automatic translators for personal use do
exist, they are not extremely reliable and their use is not
widespread. Many planetary societies consider their use to be "bad
manners".

The official languages are:

1. Anglic. Derived from the same Terran language that formed the basis
for the imperial Galanglic, and still quite close to it. Spoken in
Nawarth and many worlds of the New Cluster. Official language of the
Greenway corporation.

 2. Hispanic. Derived from another Terran
language, called "Spanish". Spoken in Nawarth and a number of other
worlds, as Infierno or Mundomar. Also favored in the Federation Navy.

3. Germanic. Also derived from a Terran language, called "German".
Spoken in parts of Nawarth and widespread in Darthel, it is the
official language of the Maler corporation.

 4. Retani, also known as "Reftaden". This is the most widespread 
Retani language, spoken throughout the Retani Cluster. Official 
language of the Tanayani and Lerani corporations.

 5. Likarden, another Retani language, favored by upper classes in 
Retani worlds. Defended by the Retani Historical Society, an 
organizationwith broad economic interests.

 6. Irkonee, the main Geonee language, spoken in Ardashee, Darthel, 
and Brawanee, and also by the Geonee minorities in other worlds. 
Official language of the Tardeeva corporation.

 7. Adzuk, a Vargr language originated from a mixture of Suedzuk and 
Urzaeng languages, spoken in the Zargar Cluster, but also widespread 
outside the Federation. Main language in the Star Legion.

Other important languages include:

Terran languages.
 Spoken by racial minorities, mainly in Nawarth. Two
interesting examples are Japachinese and Swahili, apparently unrelated
to the three official Terran languages. 

Retani languages. Dozens of
them are spoken in certain regions of Retan, as the Tarden or the
Graden. Others have evolved in other Retani worlds, as the Darden of
Lutan, also known as Lutani.

 Vargr languages.
 The Adzuk is a widespread "lingua franca" among the Vargr of the 
sector, but many Suedzuk speak also Sogzarrg, and many Urzaeng speak 
Urz.

 Other races.
A variant of Modern Vilani is spoken in Mishugi and Khanaashi. The
Danak minority of the Federation speaks mainly Katkon

 Artificial languages.
 A number of artificial languages have been 
created over the centuries for specific purposes. Some of them have 
survived. The most successful are the Tech, spoken by almost all 
Engineers and Technicians in the Federation and beyond (and used 
extensively by Futuretech), and the Interlingua, an extremely rigid 
but rich language, seldom spoken but extensively used in scientific 
and medical publications (which tend to be bilingual, 
Interlingua/local language).
- --------------------------------------
Carlos Alos-Ferrer
Geonee-Maker and BTE Ref
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/8772

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 06:37:46 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller Ship Design: Bays 

At 08:16 PM 23/11/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> 
>> > Personally, I think the 20 space bay is a typo. The numbers look like
>> they are
>> > trying to stay consistent with CT bk 2 and HG; ie 1 displacement ton for
>> a
>> > turret hardpoint (with room for three weapons), and 50 displacement tons
>> for a
>> > bay. 
>> 
>> Nope, it isn't a typo. David Pulver said he designed them that way
>> intentionally, seeing the bay more as a big turret with crew inside it
>> (kinda like a cupola, I thought.) The 20 spaces inside the ship are
>> basically for the support machinery and "rotation space".
>
>I've always treated bays as being internal to the ship.  And I'll continue
to do so.
>
>Keven
>
        I agree, Keven.  Its a "bay" not a "bulge" ;).
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 06:37:45 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: National class

At 03:02 PM 24/11/98, you wrote:
>>>*grin* 3% rate of return :) About the long-run average rate of interest
>>>over the last 500 years, actually.
>>
>>        Which is fine, but what about a TL 11 ship bought in a TL 11 game?
>>No price break....  And we're back to loosing money at a time when it is
>>most critical to development.
>
>This is where my comment about a long-run fall in freight rates comes in.
>We pitch the rates at a level that makes sense for the Traveller universe
>involved, given free markets and efficient starship design. Cr 750 plus Cr
>500 per parsec is reasonable at TL11.

        Hi, Ian!
        Oh, great.  Thanks very much, Ian.   Now I am going to *have* to do
a frieghter design at TL 9 - 15 and build a TL vs PPT table.  Like I don't
have enough to do for my game already. =)

>Given your level of piracy, I think that risk premiums would actually
>dominate over interest costs, so freight costs would higher than this.

        Its only the Frontier and Beyond that is a problem.  In fact, in the
Core, armed Merchantmen are unofficially frowned on by the UN-DSN.  However,
PC's seem to gravitate towards the Frontier no matter where I start them.... ;)

>The other design of interest is the open-frame carrier design, with a
>mixture of fighters and cargo shuttles.
>

        <Adds another design to put together onto list>  <Notices list seems
to be growing rapidly lately>
        BTW, Striker Book 3 has information on single-man re-entry
jump-attack capsules;  the most expensive one (ECM, Decoys, Chaff) was only
~50000Cr.  So, I'd say that a previous musing about re-entry capable cargo
contianers probably isn't all that obnoxiously priced.
        Your suggestion, then, is really a frieght-hauling battle-rider.  I
suspect it'll have to be a monster to make up for all the extra hull cost
that don't actually hold cargo.

>>>One of the concequences of commerce raiding is a fairly vicious
>>>evolutionary progress towards more defensible ships.
>>>
>>>In HG terms, defensible means bigger, because of the relationship between
>>>size and critical hits, and computer power and defensibility.
>>
>>        Agreed whole heartedly.  Like I say, it's gonna take about 100 years
>>for all the lessons of the 3I's Naval Design Doctrine to get learned by the
>>Terran Sphere. 
>
>The question is, therefore, what is the reaction going to be when rumours
>hit the spaceways of Ciergatz SA's massive bond issue, and their investment
>in an orbital construction facility for a 10 000 dton ship ?
>
        Well, right now, given that there are only three Class A starports
IMTU (Terra, Alpha Centari, Sirius) which can barely keep up with demand
now...  quite a stir.  Potentially out-right panic in Naval circles.
Disbelief amongst shareholders ("No one's ever build anything that big
before!").
        100-years of game time later, it'd be a big deal for so large a
merchant, but it'd be acceptable.
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 22:18:27 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: What's a LEO?

In mail you write:

> Leo Hale wrote:
>>      What is or are LEO's, and should hope it is nothing derogatory.
>> 
>> Leo
>
> Law Enforcement Officer, in this case
>
> The other common LEO is Low Earth Orbit.
>
> This would mean that Highport cops are LEOLEO's ;-)

But nobody in his right mind would put the highport in LEO. GEO is a
much better location except at really low tech levels. So that makes
them:  GEOLEOs.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 22:29:53 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: From the Friday night game

In mail you write:

> There was a brief discussion about trying to dock - but it was tabled after
> I started smiling...  They donned suits and jumped for the center of mass.
> (There was also some discussion about just shooting a line attached to a
> magnet to the ship and letting the motion 'reel' the person in.  Funny,
> everyone wanted someone else to try it, but no one wanted to be the one...)

That'd be one *hell* of a "crack the whip" effect as they hit the hull.
:-)

BTW, you can't really get a "3-axis spin" on a dead ship. You'll get a
single axis, which may shift as cargo shifts, and possibly some
precession (ie the axis will wander a bit, possibly periodically).

> This is where I really started questioning the players.  They had one person
> (alone) down in the cargo bay, one person (alone) in engineering and one
> person (alone) working his way forward.  Because they were trying to
> re-pressure the ship, they kept closing the hatches (and I kept stressing
> that it takes about 5 minutes to open the darn things manually), but they
> were really into it.

Right. And did they stop to consider what will happen to the guy in the
cargo bay once gravity comes back? They *have* to tie down that cargo
before they can restore power. *Especially* since they don't know
what's in there. 

Would *you* want a container of (say) nitric acid to "fall" on a corner
and break open?

> Anyway, forward of engineering there is still pressure.  The after third of
> the passenger area decompresses when he opens the sphincter hatch from
> engineering, but no one is there anyway.

It should require some sort of extra override to open the hatch with a
pressure differential. And the character should have sent for a
portable lock (basicly a plastic tent that seals over the lock, and has
two "chambers" so you can go into the first, seal the plastic (think of
a *big* zipper with a rubber "flap" seal behind it) then open another
seal to get to the lock. Then seal that behind you and open the lock
(or punch a hole thru the bulkhead). This way you don't de-pressurize a
compartment with survivors in it. 

These "portable locks" should be standard emergency gear on ships.
Anybody want a write-up?

> Suspicious, the doctor checks the berth log.  The occupant is 21 years old,
> 170 lbs (don't ask me to convert - I can't) entered the berth at the last

170 lbs = ~77 kg (divide lbs by 2.2 to get kilos)

The actual *definition* is 1 ounce = 28.35 grams. Which gives 1 lb =
.4536 kilo. So the "right" answer is 77.112 kg. (1/.4536 = 2.2045...
2.2 is close enough).

> Too make a long story short, the low berth is a dummy.  The body in there is
> a manican, and the readings are such that they should never take a second

Mannequin

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 06:04:03 -0600
From: Jeff Kazmierski <odysseus@fwb.gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Alien Generater

> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:54:14 -0500
> From: "Bob Sanders" <bsanders@amghome.com>
> Subject: Alien Generater
> 
> I need some help!
> 
> Does anyone know of a resource that helps you generate alien races?...  a
> basic model, frame work, working notes, etc.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Bob

I've got an old-fashioned chart-and-table system available at my web site. 
It's not too detailed, but it works pretty well and gives you a good starting place.

Jeff Kazmierski
odysseus@fwb.gulf.net
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dreamworld/6532/traveller/ccport.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 13:48:23 +0100 (MET)
From: Khagenori@gmx.net
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1182

- ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:54:14 -0500
> From: "Bob Sanders" <bsanders@amghome.com>
> Subject: Alien Generater
> 
> I need some help!
> 
> Does anyone know of a resource that helps you generate alien races?... 
a
> basic model, frame work, working notes, etc.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Bob
> 
Howdy Bob,
I've dug up an Alien Generator Flowchart quite similar to the Animal
Encounter Tables in a World Builders' style.
Since Idon't know whether I still have the file or merely a hardcopy I'll
look it up - at least I should be able to figure out the author.
Could take a day or so.
CU
Helge Hudel
Sharurshid Exploration Department
- ---
Sent through Global Message Exchange - http://www.gmx.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 22:36:44 -0200
From: Fabio Mascarenhas <fabio@darksiderpg.ml.org>
Subject: Re: Capital Ships and Space Opera (Alternity?)

DustyLV769@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 11/21/98 20:26:49 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> swordworlder@yahoo.com writes:
> 
> <<  My real question is should I farm the players
>  of that game for Traveller converts or are they just a bunch of
>  wild-eyed little snotgobblers to be ignored?  (Sorry, haven't had my
>  shot today). >>
> 
>         My experience w/ the Alternity players is they are, in general, immature
> munchkins...not much into sci-fi, but very interested in the Monty-Haul style
> of play.  I am not sure if this is encouraged by the game itself, or by the

Munchkins are present in every system. I don't think either the game or
game company encourages it. The system's loopholes are some things not
well-explained in the books, but these are esaily corrected by the
gamemaster. And as others pointed out, the combat system can be pretty
deadly, specially if the characters can't get prompt medical attention.
Even though my players were succesful in combat they are making note to
avoid it. Two almost got killed, and would have died if they didn't have
the funds to get immediate surgery.

> game company (TSR/WotC...remember, TSR INVENTED Monty Haul).  I have never had
> any real luck getting a player to carry over into Trav; they seem to get
> extremely upset when they find out that the best weapons they can usually get
> are slug firing (or <cringe> edged! )

Don't want to begin a flame war, but have you actually seen the system?
Unless you're handing out restricted weapons at every corner the best
weapons in Alternity *are* slug-firing, and I've found that melee
weapons do pretty well too.
 
> All in my own experience, of course;  YMMV

My experience is limited to my group and the Alternity mailing list.
What I have seen is that alternity players usually are the soft sci-fi,
without much gearheading. I have to agree that the system *is* soft
sci-fi. The spaceships and ship design pretty much attest to this. This
is my only gripe, they should have payed more attention to the hard
sci-fi crowd too. Of course we're probably a minority, if a little
vocal. None of my players care much about this.
 
> DustyLV769

Fabio
fabio@darksiderpg.ml.org

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 13:15:58 +0000
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Jump-6 courier networks (Was: Smuggling)

At 23:39 23/11/1998 +0000, SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> wrote:

<snip>

>I would conclude (from MT material ) that the Imperium controls information
>as in your second conclusion, especially as the construction of a J6
>network would require more Waystations to be built (and TL15 facilities to
>maintain them?)

Unfortunately the TL15 facilities limitation does not work.

Imagine A chain of 25 worlds A, B, C...X, Y, Z

A and Z are TL 15.

Each of the other systems just has low tech refuelling/supply x-boat tenders.

Your new/overhaulled X-boat Jumps A to B.

At B its messages are passed on electronically and it is fuelled and supplied.
After 1 week it is ready to take its next messages.

This time it jumps B to C.
(Carrying messages that your next new ship brought from A)

Continue until it reaches Z (after 50 weeks)
It is then overhaulled.
Its next jump is Z to Y

And back down the chain.

This system uses no more ships than if all the trips are of the A-B return
type.

If you space the jumps at J6 then one TL15 planet every 150 parsecs is enough.
This forms your communication backbone and information to and from it can be
with cheaper ships.

On the subject of cost:
A straight J6 network (averaging J4+ because planets aren't in the right
place)
is going to need fewer ships than a rambling J4 network.
Your feeder links might even be J2 and saving you money.
Don't forget that you can use ships with lots of spare fuel to perform a jump
and return (2 x J-4) to a system with no tender - all it needs is a comms link
to swap data with.

Just because Supp7 only showed one type of X-boat - why can't there be others?

My conclusion is that the official routes aren't logical and any attempts to
fix them or argue their validity becomes an IMTU/IYTU arguement.

This doen't mean that the arguement can't be interesting :-)

IMTU - This is an academic question for me:

 I'd never considered having an adventuring party Travelling at J-4+
 for long in M1100 so they rarely outrun news except to backwater planets.
 (The multi-week adventures on backwater planets mean that everyone has
 heard about their previous exploits when they return to civilisation.)
 Thus the X-boat route being J-4 and can the players build J-6 ships
 were never really problems.
 However in M0, my party has J-3 and there are no X-boats.
 So they will always be ahead of the news...especially once they leave the
3I :-)

- --
  Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
 "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:55:51 EST
From: Slick1483@aol.com
Subject: Re:

unsubscribe traveller   Slick1483@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:51:02 -0500
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: Re: bays in G:T

> Subject: Re: bays in G:T
> 
> >From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
> 
> >Nope, it isn't a typo. David Pulver said he designed them that way
> >intentionally, seeing the bay more as a big turret with crew inside it
> >(kinda like a cupola, I thought.) The 20 spaces inside the ship are
> >basically for the support machinery and "rotation space".
> >
> 
> No, it's a typo.

I'm sorry, but I happen to know it is not a typo. I vey clearly remember a
post David Pulver made on the subject.
 
 Otherwise, we have to assume that 
> 
> 1) very heavily armoured ships magically get armour over their bays for
> free, and

actually, this is not true, but the misconception is likely the result of a
poor wording in the ship construction rules. When applying armor to the
hull it says to use "hull area"; it really should say "total surface area".
if you use total surface area, you do wind up paying for the armor on your
bays.
 
> 2) all jump ships with bays magically get more efficient jump drives (or
> that jump ships without bays install bigger jump drives than they need)

I'm not sure how you figured this; it may be correct, I don't know. I would
think that the same could be said for turrets, since the actual external
volume of the turret is not included in the volume of the ship for purposes
of computing size of jump drive needed.
 
> While we are fixing up typos, you missed explicity stating the minimum
hull
> size needed to install bays (otherwise FS is building a 40 dton Heavy
> Fighter with a PAW bay bigger than it is).

I have the GURPS Traveller ship construction system right here with me as I
type, and nowhere in it do I find any mention of a minimum hull size for
bays. Admittedly, there probably should BE a minimum. Then again, since a
bay takes the place of 10 turrets, this by definition would seem to limit
bays to ships of more than 1,000 tons, since lesser ships don't have enough
turret spaces to allow installation of a bay. This amounts to a de facto
limitation; it should be more explicitly stated.

I do believe that bays should have been internal; had I been able to be in
on the playtest, I would have commented on this. Perhaps those who are
working on the Starships book might want to correct this by including
Internal Bays as an option and noting that this is what bays originally
were in High Guard. In the meantime, the suggestion offered for Internal
bays seems to work fairly well.

Allen Shock

P.S. For information purposes, that suggestion was as follows:

>a)  Take up 50 spaces each.
>b)  Significantly reduced field of fire (roughly 90 degree arc of fire).
This
>does not affect missile launchers.
>c)  Do not add any surface area.

I believe it was Anthony Jackson who pointed this out (credit where credit
is due)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:55:24 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Ship Design Question

Frank Pitt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
That's a prety major change in meaning you have there.

In all previous versions of Traveller "bays" were internal to the
ship.That's what "bay" means after all,  a concavity in the coast.
What you are calling a bay is more correctly called a nacelle.
<snip>
The bay doesn't work the same way, it takes up space inside the ship
and merely represents the necessary hardpoints, power routing and C3
gear required to connect weapons and other equipment.

The torpedo room of an attack sub is the T7 equivalent of a missile
bay. The gun decks of a ship of the line are the T5 equivalent, and
the forward phaser banks of the Enterprise A (mounted on the edge of
the disc ) are the TF equivalent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The main gun turrets on a TL 6 battleship are also examples of bay 
weapons. They probably take up almost as much space internally 
(mechanisms and ammo stores) as they do externally.

Check out the bay weapons on the Azhanti High Lightning class
Frontier Cruiser/Fleet Intruder. Lots of internal space operating some
honking big turrets.

It would be a problem if your ship design sequence had strict rules on
surface area and final volume - Bay Weapons were introduced in
High Guard, and didn't worry much about the details.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:02:57 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us>
Subject: 3I ID and Clones

Regarding the issue of tracking individuals by genetic code:

What about clones?  Surely, some races have experimented with clones, 
including the Solomani and the Imperium.  In fact, last week someone 
posted an excellent pair of NPCs, one of whom was from a set of 
clones.

Also, what about the possibility of a race that reproduces by cloning 
itself at certain stages of a relatively complex life cycle?

In these instances, there are at least several individuals with the 
same genetic code.  (In the case of a racial cloning process as part 
of the life cycle, this could stretch into hundreds or more).  
Certainly genetic code is a part of the process, but what else can be 
used in 3I IDs to distinguish these types of individuals from one 
another?

In Service,
Jason

============================
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer I
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375

Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1188
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, November 24 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1189



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Vastness of Space
Re: Languages in Traveller
RE: What's a LEO?
Re: GURPS: Traveller PBEM game.
re: Vastness of Space
Re: GURPS Traveller Ship Design: Bays 
Re: Comments on G:T Decafreighter
Re: GT: Ship Design Question
Re: GURPS Traveller Ship Design: Bays
Re: Mass combat system for Traveller
Re: Jump-6 courier networks (Was: Smuggling)
Re: .224 Boz or 10mm
Re: Neural Scanners & Low Berths
Re: From the Friday night game
Re: [TWG] t5 SAEPs
Re: Imperium
Khushdakaa class light freighter

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:22:16 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us>
Subject: Vastness of Space

We've discussed recently the effects of the Xboat network on the 
Imperium, and Jump-4 vs Jump-6 networks, mostly in relation to 
interstellar communication for trade, law enforcement, and 
communication.  In a somewhat related thread, we've discussed 
Languages in Traveller.  IMTU, the vastness of space enforces several 
situations regarding communication gaps.  Because of the travel time 
between worlds, I imagine starports and the worlds they represent in 
a similar situation to the cities of the United States' Wild West era 
of the last century.  Often these cities had to rely on old news and 
independent local agencies to deal with issues, due to the 
communication lag.  Messages, etc were carried by Pony Express from 
town to town (like the Xboat network) or by passers-through 
(merchants or travellers).  The Imperium has to handle communication 
problems such as these, and it serves as a great model for the 
concept.

Due to the separation of areas, each world develops a lot more 
independently, culturally, the further it is from frequent contact 
with the rest of the Imperium.  Major stops along the Xboat route 
have very mainstream cultures, similar to the phenomenon observed in 
the eastern seaboard of the USA during the last century.  The farther 
from the cultural centers, the more diverse the culture becomes.  Add 
in a slew of minor races, and the effect is exaggerated.  The 
Imperial Encyclopedia re-inforces the concept that many worlds have 
their own language, which may or may not be related to Galanglic.  
However, Galanglic is the official language of 3I, and many cultures 
must deal with multi-lingual interfaces, similar to the Cajuns of the 
Louisiana bayous speaking with outsiders, or the French/English 
multi-lingual labels of Canada.  These just give a few of the 
examples that can be used from the Real World (tm) to cover similar 
situations in the 3I.

In my personal opinion, and this does not necessarily reflect the 
opinion of others on this list, there is a basic Imperial culture 
practiced at starports and major cultural world, which loses some of 
its footing on lower tech worlds and in the backwaters of frontier 
worlds.  Languages vary here, and the average Imperial tourist is 
hard-kept to keep up with the accented speech of a local guide.  And 
as for news and other communication problems, while technology can 
give time-stamped flags so that the latest data to arrive 
in-system is filtered to insure the most up-to-date information in 
the starport databanks, worlds are almost always a little behind 
within a few parsecs of the source.  But this is just IMTU.

Jason

============================
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer I
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375

Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:27:20 -0500
From: Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil>
Subject: Re: Languages in Traveller

CardSharks@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Draft from the skill chapter for T5

>         Available Languages. The following languages are available for selection
> (other languages are possible and may be invented and selected).
> 
> >From Terra     From Other Worlds       From Other Races
> Anglic             Vilani                 Vargr
> Spanish            Suerrat                Aslan
> French             Geonee                 Droyne
> Chinese                                   Graytch
> 


I think that German is more likely to take the place of French.  No
offense intended to French-speakers on the list, but I believe that
German is more widespread than French and is likely to stay so.

The Count

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:34:53 -0500 (EST)
From: William Prankard <cmdrx@magicnet.net>
Subject: RE: What's a LEO?

>Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 22:18:27 PST
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Subject: Re: What's a LEO?

>In mail you write:

>> Leo Hale wrote:
>>>      What is or are LEO's, and should hope it is nothing derogatory.
>>> 
>>> Leo
>>
>> Law Enforcement Officer, in this case
>>
>> The other common LEO is Low Earth Orbit.
>>
>> This would mean that Highport cops are LEOLEO's ;-)

>But nobody in his right mind would put the highport in LEO. GEO is a
>much better location except at really low tech levels. So that makes
>them:  GEOLEOs.

So, would a large orbital port/city be considered a GEO Metro? :-)

(Quickly evaiding weapons fire, and peanut pelting from the #callahans
crew...)

\\  // Commander X
 \\//  CEO X-TEK Industries of Deneb, LIC
T E K  Military & Civilan Starship Contractor
 //\\  High Energy Weapons Research
//  \\ http://www.magicnet.net/~cmdrx/xtek/xtek.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:42:35 -0700
From: Samir <samir@chisp.net>
Subject: Re: GURPS: Traveller PBEM game.

At 10:20 PM 11/23/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Hey everybody.  I *might* be running a GURPS: Traveller PBEM
>game.  Rather or not I actually do or not depends on how many potential
>players I get, how many of them I accept, and other factors such as
>the vagaries of school (how many classes I take next term) and afew
>other things.  If you're willing to gamble, and want to play in a
>game of GURPS: Traveller, then send me a character.  If you don't know
>much about traveller but still want to play, we can work something
>out so don't worry.
>
>	If you've played a PBEM game with me before, then you probally
>know that I dropped it and left you hanging.  I, apparently, didn't
>even say goodbye due to some computer errors (or atleast, afew of the
>players said so).  I've learned alot from afew failed attempts, and
>have ran a successful PBEM game in the meantime.  :)
>
>
>	Anyways, if you're still with me, and you're intrested, just
>send me answers to the following questions....
>
>
>1)	How much experience do you have with Traveller, in any
>	of its incarnations?

I played original traveller back in 1980.

>	1a)	Are you likly to get upset if I make afew mistakes
>		regarding the setting, or if I change afew things?

no, go ahead make it extra spicy

>	1b)	What is your favorite part of Traveller?  What do you
>		think seperates it from other sci-fi settings?

characters that die in creation, actually the simplisity

>2)	How much experience do you have with the GURPS system?
>

some, been playing it hard core for about 8 months now

>	1a)	Do you perfer copious amounts of detail and realism
>		with you RPGs, or do you perfer the story over rules?

both, mostly story.


>	1b)	Are you likly to be uncomfortable with a storyteller
>		who doesn't own every GURPs book and generally plays
>		fast and loose with the rules?

nah, I do it all the time.

>3)	What kind of character concept do you think you might be
>	intrested in playing?  Feel free to give me more than one
>	answer, and give as much detail as possible.  Try to keep it
>	shorter than one paragraph, though I won't mind if you go over.

merc, merchant, pirate hunter, psionic. I build my character as I play, the
concept I use is the one world character type description. I lake the
challange of difficult archtypes

>4)	Do you have any questions?  Include them here.  :)
>
when can we start?
>
>
>-- 
>Brandon,
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 11:09:00 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Vastness of Space

Jason Kemp wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
In my personal opinion, and this does not necessarily reflect the 
opinion of others on this list, there is a basic Imperial culture 
practiced at starports and major cultural world, which loses some of 
its footing on lower tech worlds and in the backwaters of frontier 
worlds.  Languages vary here, and the average Imperial tourist is 
hard-kept to keep up with the accented speech of a local guide.  And 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There will be a difference between the 3i and the American Wild West.
The locals, except on the most marginal or isolationist of planets, will
have regular access to recorded audio and audio-enabled video from
more mainstream planets. Audio records should exist of every
Emperor's coronation address from Cleon I forward, and will be just
one example of speech patterns frozen in time.

I'm not saying there won't be linguistic drift or local accents and
dialects, I'm saying that the continuous presence of recorded speech
will damp the drift and development. That dirt farmer needs to understand
the "common" galanglic dialect, or he won't be able to listen to the
audio reference chip on how to maintain his harvester unit - which was
probably recorded on the hi-pop high-industry world four parsecs
away where the harvester was made.

An aside, though: you may find people stressing an almost
incomprehensible accent for cultural or planetary pride reasons.
I've heard that the Pavel Checkov and Montgomery Scott characters
on Star Trek were speaking with such heavy accents for just such
reasons, and Kurt Wagner (Nightcrawler) of the X-Men spoke
perfect English - the German accent and phrases were literally
done (by this natural swashbuckler character) for effect.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:00:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller Ship Design: Bays 

Douglas Glatz writes:

> Would that be for the 50 ton bay or the 100 ton bay?

50-ton.  GT doesn't have any 100-ton bays.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:41:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Comments on G:T Decafreighter

Ian or Katts writes:
> 
> I cant put this politely. Too many ships in canon were not optimised in
> terms of price.
> 
> BTW, thrust has been based on mass since FFS v1. Incidentally, I dont like
> cargo to be assumed at 5t per dton ... that is about 0.3 t/m3, which is
> lower than I think most commodities would be.

Well, thrust has been optionally based on mass since FF&S v1 ;).  5t per dton
is probably reasonable for loosely packed cargo -- things in boxes, etc.  If
anything, it might be high -- typical boxes used for transport of stuff to
stores and the like are probably about a third of a cubic meter, and probably
don't weight over 50 kilos.  However, material that can be packed solidly
(grain, ore, liquids) is much denser.
> 
> It's a change in canon I dont like. The G:T rules as they stand make
> planetfall-capable merchants too inefficient, and we want to encourage
> ships that can make planetfall themselves, rather than stay in orbit and
> have big interface shuttles come up to meet them.

Hm?  Why specifically do we want to encourage that?  Streamlining is cheaper
than carrying a shuttle until your ship is quite large, and ports which are
likely to have a decent shuttle force of their own most likely also have a
highport, so streamlining is sort of irrelevant.
> 
> Anyway, a mostly smooth sphere or cylinder should be capable of making
> planetfall with contragravity, as long as you didnt leave too many bits
> sticking out.

Ah...long term dispute.  To be honest, _any_ ship in traveller, streamlined or
not, is probably capable of planetfall, provided it has enough thrust to exceed
local gravity.  
>> 
> It's meant to be very hard to hurt with TL10 lasers. I'm not even sure that
> DR2100 is thick enough.

Why do you want a heavily armored ship?  Are you a warship?  You can accomplish
the same goal with sandcasters for less weight and money.  To be honest, 20-30
turrets is sufficient to scare off most ethically challenged individuals (ten
triple sand, ten triple laser, ten triple missile, for example).  Remember,
merchants are usually fond of lowering their costs, and anything that cuts down
on the ability to carry more cargo hurts.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:51:45 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: GT: Ship Design Question

In a message dated 11/23/98 4:28:16 PM Pacific Standard Time,
yikes@evansville.net writes:

<< Me too. I have thought that bays were internal ever since I was introduced
 to the term in _High Guard_. I never knew that they were just big honkin'
 turrets (Imperial designation; BHTs). Why call them bays at all? I also
 thought that virtually all starship turrets were of the pop-up variety
 (regardless of MT illos), although I am not sure where I got that idea.
  >>

AHL treats bays as enormous pop up turrets (those are the 12 dorsal triple
turrets that you see on the box front, which I always thought confusing-they
look too much like a triple beam turret. The artist should have used 50 tiny
tubes instead). The deck plans clearly show this, though interestly, neither
the illustration nor the deck plans show the hundreds of turrets at all...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:53:27 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller Ship Design: Bays

In a message dated 11/23/98 4:54:56 PM Pacific Standard Time, ashock@gte.net
writes:

<< 
 Nope, it isn't a typo. David Pulver said he designed them that way
 intentionally, seeing the bay more as a big turret with crew inside it
 (kinda like a cupola, I thought.) The 20 spaces inside the ship are
 basically for the support machinery and "rotation space".
 
 Allen >>

Oh; I think I see. Does that mean that the other 30 spaces are in the external
part of the bay turret?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 17:44:36 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Mass combat system for Traveller

Sword Worlder <swordworlder@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Well, here I am again, out of the loop.  What's FT?  Must be a generic
>system, eh?

FT is a starship minatures combat system written by Ground Zero Games in
the UK (published by Geohex in the US). It is reasonably generic but does
have its own universe. It's quite fast, fun and cheap.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 17:41:54 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Jump-6 courier networks (Was: Smuggling)

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> wrote:

>>Conclusion:
>[List of why the X-boat network is J-4]
>- - The Imperium just doesn't want to shell out the bucks for
>jump-6.				       ^^^^^^^^^^^

Yeah, the exhachange rate from Hi Pop Low tech (TL8) Starport X worlds for
credits is lousy - about 0.35 according to the TCS rules.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 17:46:14 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: .224 Boz or 10mm

Mark Cook <markc@peak.org> wrote:

>     What is or are LEO's, and should hope it is nothing derogatory.

As a guess: Law Enforcement Officer's.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 17:49:49 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Neural Scanners & Low Berths

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com> wrote:

>Depends how you think a NAS actually works, but since someone in a low berth
>has rather minimal neural activity, probably not (or at least, not at any
>significant range at all -- maybe 1% or less).  Someone on fast drug would
>probably be harder to detect as well (assuming an inverse square rule,
>which is
>rather an assumption, someone on fast drug would be detected at about 1/8
>normal range).

So would a slaver (sorry, megacorporate bonded labour transfer starship) be
best operated with the 'passengers' in  some form of lowberth?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:44:18 -0800
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Re: From the Friday night game

- -----Original Message-----
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 4:10 AM
Subject: Re: From the Friday night game


>In mail you write:
>BTW, you can't really get a "3-axis spin" on a dead ship. You'll get a
>single axis, which may shift as cargo shifts, and possibly some
>precession (ie the axis will wander a bit, possibly periodically).
>


You are right - I kept breaking the motion up into three components so that
I could explain it to my players, but fundementally all you have is the ship
rolling along the thrust axis and rotating around the center of gravity.

>
>Right. And did they stop to consider what will happen to the guy in the
>cargo bay once gravity comes back? They *have* to tie down that cargo
>before they can restore power. *Especially* since they don't know
>what's in there.


Once they restored power, they did secure the cargo.  One of the really good
breaks they got that night (i.e. the dice favored them) was that the cargo
handling controls were intact and accessible.

>
>> Anyway, forward of engineering there is still pressure.  The after third
of
>> the passenger area decompresses when he opens the sphincter hatch from
>> engineering, but no one is there anyway.
>
>It should require some sort of extra override to open the hatch with a
>pressure differential. And the character should have sent for a
>portable lock (basicly a plastic tent that seals over the lock, and has
>two "chambers" so you can go into the first, seal the plastic (think of
>a *big* zipper with a rubber "flap" seal behind it) then open another
>seal to get to the lock. Then seal that behind you and open the lock
>(or punch a hole thru the bulkhead). This way you don't de-pressurize a
>compartment with survivors in it.

IMTU, to vent a compartment using a sphincter hatch you must have the
override codes.  That, however,  assumes that the hatch has power.  There is
a manual 'handwheel' (a fitting that can be turned by hand or serves as an
attachment point for a crank or powered door opener) that is only operable
when there is no power.  Explosive decompression was not an issue, as once
the seal was broken, the existing atmosphere leaked out through the seal.

Admittedly, if there were survivors on the far side, it would not have been
a good thing - but during their run in to the planet (the wreck was in
orbit), sensors showed that the ship was at environmental temperatures (i.e.
power not being used to keep the ship at habitable temperatures), and that
it was surrounded by a 'halo' of H2 (from leaking tanks).  The ship was also
'fuzzy' on the sensors (from debris surrounding the ship).

Basically, they were pretty sure going onto the ship that the only possible
survivors would be in low berth.


>> Too make a long story short, the low berth is a dummy.  The body in there
is
>> a manican, and the readings are such that they should never take a second
>
>Mannequin

I knew that was wrong, but I didn't take the time to look it up.

(sigh)

Lose one grade to spelling?  ;^)

douglas

E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas
IMTU: tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls
The early bird gets the worm, BUT
   the second mouse gets the cheese!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:32:00 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: [TWG] t5 SAEPs

Marc wrote:

>A milieu free book doesn't work. How do you use the Basic Rules (which have
>Imperial ranks for the Navy) as a support for playing during the Terran
>Confederation? That's why I want to do SAEPs Stand Alone Entry Points... All
>the necessary rules for that era along with background.

By Milieu free I mean it contains design sequences from TL0 through to
TL17+ and background on the Traveller Universe overall, plus library data
and equipment in the same TL range. It also includes starship design (maybe
simplified).

Then a milieu book could contain caps (in the same way that TNE originally
sold the generic 'technical architecture") for TLs plus special rules. Ie
ship design notes like the old Alien Modules (GDW ones).

>	Basic Traveller. The basic Traveller book provides the game rules
>for the
>game (character, starships, combat, worlds). An game master or role-player
>will find the rules in this book clear and easy to use.

Yes, a full set which could be used as a 'Milieu-lite' version of Traveller
- - rules inside with generic background material for the whole timeline.
Conversely, the Milieu books would be 'rules-lite' with a cut down
Traveller rule set (eg no QSDS equivalent). This means that you maintain an
SAEP tailored to the Milieu but avoid irritating the players who own Basic
Traveller and bought the Milieu book as background.

The rules set ('Basic Traveller') should differ from the Milieu rules by
having all the useful little extra rules - stuff like the nice to haves
about special combat situations and so on. This also gives someone who
starts from an SAEP an incentive to buy Basic if they like the rules. At
the same time, basic supports the homespun campaign anywhere (either
outside the Imperium setting or anywhere in the timeline). It also provides
basic details for Milieu 0 (200 Imperial) which won't make a buyer of the
M0 (M200?) book feel ripped off. It is also a hook to fish existing
Traveller players into the new system.

Although I can see an attraction for the Civil War period instead of M0 -
Wars with the Zhodani, a partial developed Marches, a functioning Imperial
bureaucracy iognoring or making do with the squabbling admirals.

>	First Contact is a stand-alone entry point detailing the Solar
>System in
>about 2100 (before Terra invents the Jump Drive). Use First Contact without
>any other Traveller book or supplementÖ rules, background, and the epic
>adventure are all included.

Logically, this is a great book to have the kind of details found in
Cyberpunk's _Deep Space_, the details of lower tech life in space. Plus a
low tech QSDS for ion drives etc.

Not meant as criticism....
Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:37:49 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Imperium

Ian Whitchurch wrote:

>OK. The first thing is to remember that you have to capture the Terran
>worlds. Outposts can be flattened or captured, but the critical factor for
>the Terrans is their ability to actually keep their tax revenue from worlds.

I follow that - but realistically, I can only capture 3 per war ;-)

>The second thing to remember is if you lose too many wars, you (the
>Provincial Governor) lose your job, and get to do the Vilani equivalent of
>running a hydroelectric plant in Siberia.

Da Comrade.

>Tactically, think about building up a force of fighters and carriers, to
>use as pin forces against his missile boats, allowing your Strike Cruisers
>to crush him with impunity.

My first ed boxed set has 1 Mothership - should there be more? I'm
currently at 1 MS plus 6 Fighter Squadrons.

>Jump troops are vital offensively. Make sure you have some on hand.

Level 6 ;-) my best unit.

>If you can crush the Terrans in one battle, go for the throat. Set up an
>invasion of Terra.
>
>Think of it this way ... if you do a good enough job on Terra, then win or
>lose the war, the Solomani are going to remember the Ziru Sirkaa for
>another 5000 years ...

LOL!

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:58:39 -0600
From: Andrew Akins <igor@truserve.com>
Subject: Khushdakaa class light freighter

Here's the newest (and perhaps final) version of my Kushdakaa class light
freighter. The goal here was to design a ship that with very little
creative trading (read, speculative) this thing can perhaps turn a profit.

It does this by:
  * Being small enough to be operated by one or two individuals -
independent types a-la Han Solo. such independents would no doubt dispense
with formal salaries - relying purely on the profit margin.
  * Class discount of 20%...this hearkens back to the CT days, but I like
it, so I still use it IMTU.
  * Smallest possible drives - drives are by far the most expensive item on
a ship.
  * A small power shortfall - requiring creative power management but
lowering power plant cost.
  * Fuel purification so unrefined can be bought. Scooping allowed for teh
adventurous captain.

Comments and slams are encouraged

=====================================================================
Khushdakaa class Light Frieghter

Designed by Udararuukin

Statistics
  Tons: 100std (SL Medium Box Hypersonic). 
  Volume: 1400m3.
  Mass (L/C nominal): 1280t/640t.
  Dimensions: 17.8m x 8.9m x 8.9m.
  Size: 8.
  Crew: 2/2.
  Passengers High/Med: 0/2.
  Passengers Low/Emerg: 0/0.
  Troops/Science: 0/0.
  Frozen Watch: 0.
  Cargo: 45std (0/4 /Hdl:2x10ton).
  Price: 17.40MCr. (includes 20% standard design discount).
  Maintenance Points: 23.
  Tech Level: 12.

Electronics
  Controls: Dynamic, High automation. 
    3xComp (CM:1.0 CP:1.0). No bridge.
  Communications: 1xRadio (50,000km, 0.02MW). 
    1xLaser (500,000km, 0MW).
  Base Sensors: 1xPEMS (12.5 [1.6mkm], 0MW). 1xAEMS (4, 0.01MW).
  Signatures: Vis: -0.5, IR: -0.5, Act: 0, Neu: -1, Grav: 0.

Weapons
  1xEmpty 42m3 turret 

Performance
  Jump: 1 (10std/pc fuel).
  Maneuver (L/C): 1/1.9 (/Thruster: 30MW).
  Contra Grav (L/C): 0.5/1 (11MW).
  Atmospheric (L/C): 1797kph/3420kph (/Crus:1348kph/2565kph).
  Power: 1 (/Fusion:42MW, 1yr).
  Battery: 16 (38.1/5.4/5.3).
  Fuel: 10.5 (/Scoop:3 /Purification: 5hr, 1MW).
  Accomodations: 0/4/0/0/0.
  Life Support: 16 (/Type:Standard, normal food. /Storage).
  G-Compensation: 1G.
  Armor: 10 [29]
  Structure: 6

Features
  2xAirlock.
  1xShip's Locker (0.05std).
  2xOrdinary Galley (Cap:2).
  1xDocking Umbilical.

Small Craft
  1xDocking Slip (2std air/raft).

Crew
  2xManeuver.

Economic Profile (Yearly)

Purchase Price: 17,400,065Cr
Down Payment: 3,480,013Cr
Charter Potential: 57,600Cr

Expenses        Full Load    80% Load    50% Load
Ship's Payment   906,253Cr   906,253Cr   906,253Cr
Maintenance       17,400Cr    17,400Cr    17,400Cr
Fuel              26,125Cr    26,125Cr    26,125Cr
Salaries         158,400Cr   158,400Cr   158,400Cr
Life Support     200,000Cr   200,000Cr   150,000Cr
Berthing           5,000Cr     5,000Cr     5,000Cr
Subtotal       1,313,178Cr 1,313,178Cr 1,313,178Cr

Income          Full Load    80% Load    50% Load
Middle Passage   400,000Cr   400,000Cr   200,000Cr
Freight        1,100,000Cr   875,000Cr   550,000Cr
Subtotal       1,500,000Cr 1,275,000Cr   750,000Cr

Profit/Loss      186,822Cr   -38,178Cr  -513,178Cr
=====================================================================

PRESS RELEASE

Udararuukin is pleased to announce the launching of its newest
freighter, the Khushdakaa class light freighter. Designed for 
the individual merchant in mind, the Khushdakaa (Vilani for 
"Opportunity") is a small design capable of being operated by a 
single individual (the normal crew complement, a pilot and a 
navigator, can be replaced with an indivudal handling both jobs). 
This makes it perfect for the enterprising captain wishing to ply 
the space lanes in search of profit and adventure. The small size 
also makes the Khushdakaa extremely affordable: with standard 20% 
discounts (normal for mass produced designs) the ship costs less 
than 18MCr.

Even though it is small and inexpensive, the Khushdakaa performs 
admirably. Nearly forty-five percent of its volume is devoted to 
cargo space (in the form of four 11 ton cargo bays and a single 1 
ton luggage bay), allowing plenty of room for speculative trading. 
The craft has four staterooms - two on the command deck, and two 
on the cargo deck. The freighter is designed to allow two passengers 
in meager comfort on the cargo deck, while the upper staterooms 
are used for the crew. If the ship is operated by a single individual,
the twin crew staterooms can be combined into a larger room/office 
suite. The ship has complete life support and personnel facilities 
on each deck, allowing passengers to be completely separated from the 
crew. This ensures in-flight security, a serious concern for 
independent merchants. If no passengers are desired, the passenger 
cabins can be taken out, freeing up an additional 4 tons of cargo 
space (separate from the main hold).

The Khushdakaa is powered by a single GRN-95 fusion reactor, 
producing 42MW of power nominally. The GRN-95 is a low maintenance, 
sturdy design that has proven to be quite reliable. The ship carries 
enough fuel for an entire year of power plant operation. The design 
is such that no user intervention, for maintenance or fueling, should 
be required until the ship's annual maintenance period. The ship has 
a power shortfall of 3.91 megawatts. This causes no serious problems, 
however, as the turret and fuel purification plant use 1.48 megawatts, 
and can be taken off line. In addition, the craft powers down its grav 
compensators during atmospheric operations. Should the turret (and any 
weapon mounted in it) or the purification plant be needed, the 
contra-grav systems can be powered down, freeing as much as 10 
megawatts. For emergencies, the ship has a bank of batteries capable 
of providing life support (minus grav plates) radios, and sensors for 
nearly two weeks.

Jumpspace operation is provided by a TM-71 jump drive, mounted 
alongside the fusion plant. The TM-71 is a zero-maintenance unit, 
capable of operating within its operational guidelines for over a year 
with no maintenance. The operational range of the Khushdakka is 1.08 
parsecs per week, nominal. Fuel storage is provided for 140 cubic meters 
of hydrogen, enough for a single jump at maximum range. 

The ship is equipped with exterior fuel rams and a complete purification 
system for allow for frontier refueling from gas giants or planetary 
surfaces. The single purification unit can purify the entire fuel supply 
in under 5 hours. As stated above, the Khushdakaa has enough baffled 
fuel tanks to allow one Jump-1. However, internal fuel hookups in the 
cargo bays can facilitate additional fuel storage tanks, at the expense 
of cargo space. Thus, the ship can make multiple jumps to reach 
distant destinations (each 11 ton cargo bay can be refitted as a 
10 ton fuel pod using collapsable fuel tanks available at any class A, 
B, or C starport).

For normal propulsion, the ship is equipped with twin U-9 thruster pods 
and a contra-grav system. The contra grav system can offset upto .5Gs 
of gravitational force when the ship is loaded, allowing the Khushdakaa's 
thrusters to achieve orbit. The design of the thrusters is unique - they 
are mounted on two pods on either side of the ship, on each on an 
independently rotatable axis.Thus, the drives can be swiveled downward 
for VTOL flight during takeoff and landing, and then rotated into a 
forward position for normal flight. In addition, since the drives are 
mounted independent of each other, they can be positioned at different 
angles. This makes the Khushdakaa an extremely nimble ship, able to 
perform in flight maneuvers that are impressive for a mere 1G craft. 
While the drives themselves are reliable, the translation equipment 
needs to be monitored and to ensure proper operation.

For dirtside operation, the Khushdakaa has room for a single 2-ton 
air/raft in a cramped docking slip. If the air/raft is not needed, 
the slip can be used for an additional 2 tons of cargo.

For self defence, the Khushdakaa has an empty standard 42m3 turret, 
capable of mounting a variety of light weaponry. The turret is slaved 
to the cockpit for control.

The Khushdakaa is a poor performer when operating only with freight 
and passengers - it is able to turn a modest profit only if it operates 
at 100% efficiency, which is a rare occurance for all but the most 
skilled traders. However, the enterprising captain should be able to 
turn a tidy profit by engaging in spectulative trading. Its admirable 
performance, ease of use, and low cost make it the perfect choice for 
the independent free trader. It should also be noted that for an
independent trader, the salaries can be dispensed with, improving
annual income by over 150,000Cr. 

Variations: It has already been noted that fuel tanks can be mounted
in the cargo pods. In addition, many captains customize the pods,
installing low berths, staterooms, or even weapons within. All of
these changes are custom performed by the owners, and are not
available from the maneufacturer. It should be noted that the cargo
pods are not pods in the truest sense - they cannot be detatched 
without severe structural work in a drydock.

For further information or ordering information, contact the 
Udararuukin sales department.


+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                        |
| Home: igor@truserve.com - www.truserve.com/~igor/ - AIM: Iowa Akins |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/ - AIM: CMS AndyA    |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU: tc++(**) ru+ ge 3i+ jt- au+ ls+ kk+ hi+ as+ va+ dr+ so+ zh+   |
|       vi+ da+                                                       |
| Geek: GCS d- s+:+ a- C++ W++ w+++(-)$ PS+ PE t- 5++ X+ R+++ tv+     |
|       b+++ DI+ D-- G e+ h---- r+++ y++++                            |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1189
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, November 24 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1190



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: What's a LEO?
Khushdakaa class light freighter (again)
Re: Khushdakaa class light freighter (again)
Re: .224 Boz or 10mm
Re: Jump-6 courier networks
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1189
Re: Languages in Traveller
Re: Languages in Traveller
Re: GT: Ship Design Question
5FW to HG
Re: Languages in Traveller
Re: Languages in Traveller
Re: Languages in Traveller

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:33:47 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: What's a LEO?

William Prankard wrote:
> 
> >Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 22:18:27 PST
> >From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> >Subject: Re: What's a LEO?
> 
> >In mail you write:
> 
> >> Leo Hale wrote:
> >>>      What is or are LEO's, and should hope it is nothing derogatory.
> >>>
> >>> Leo
> >>
> >> Law Enforcement Officer, in this case
> >>
> >> The other common LEO is Low Earth Orbit.
> >>
> >> This would mean that Highport cops are LEOLEO's ;-)
> 
> >But nobody in his right mind would put the highport in LEO. GEO is a
> >much better location except at really low tech levels. So that makes
> >them:  GEOLEOs.
> 
> So, would a large orbital port/city be considered a GEO Metro? :-)
> 
> (Quickly evaiding weapons fire, and peanut pelting from the #callahans
> crew...)

    _           _           _           _              
   / \ ) \_/ ( / \ ) \_/ ( / \ ) \_/ ( / \ ) \_/ ( \-*/*^...tinkle

Consider this a virtual glass throw! ;-) 
- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 13:35:34 -0600
From: Andrew Akins <igor@truserve.com>
Subject: Khushdakaa class light freighter (again)

I was working on the deck plans for this ship, and it didn't look the way I
liked. So, I changed the configuration, which changed the mass, whiched
changed the engines, which changed the price, etc....

Here's the new version (maybe the last...maybe?):

Khushdakaa class Light Frieghter

Designed by Udararuukin

=====================================================================
FF&S Statistics

Statistics
  Tons: 100std (SL Long Box Hypersonic). 
  Volume: 1400m3.
  Mass (L/C nominal): 1300t/660t.
  Dimensions: 22.3m x 11.2m x 5.6m.
  Size: 8.
  Crew: 2/2.
  Passengers High/Med: 0/2.
  Passengers Low/Emerg: 0/0.
  Troops/Science: 0/0.
  Frozen Watch: 0.
  Cargo: 45std (0/4 /Hdl:2x10ton).
  Price: 17.551Cr. (includes 20% standard design discount).
  Maintenance Points: 23.
  Tech Level: 12.

Electronics
  Controls: Dynamic, High automation. 
    3xComp (CM:1.0 CP:1.0). No bridge.
  Communications: 1xRadio (50,000km, 0.02MW). 
    1xLaser (500,000km, 0MW).
  Base Sensors: 1xPEMS (12.5 [1.6mkm], 0MW). 1xAEMS (4, 0.01MW).
  Signatures: Vis: -0.5, IR: -0.5, Act: 0, Neu: -1, Grav: 0.

Weapons
  1xEmpty 42m3 turret 

Performance
  Jump: 1 (10std/pc fuel).
  Maneuver (L/C): 1/1.9 (/Thruster: 31MW).
  Contra Grav (L/C): 0.5/1 (11MW).
  Atmospheric (L/C): 1806kph/3388kph (/Crus:1355kph/2541kph).
  Power: 1 (/Fusion:42MW, 1yr).
  Battery: 16 (38.1/5.4/5.3).
  Fuel: 10.5 (/Scoop:3 /Purification: 5hr, 1MW).
  Accomodations: 0/4/0/0/0.
  Life Support: 16 (/Type:Standard, normal food. /Storage).
  G-Compensation: 1G.
  Armor: 10 [29]
  Structure: 6

Features
  2xAirlock.
  1xShip's Locker (0.05std).
  2xOrdinary Galley (Cap:2).
  1xDocking Umbilical.

Small Craft
  1xDocking Slip (2std air/raft).

Crew
  2xManeuver.

Economic Profile (Yearly)

Purchase Price: 17,550,734Cr
Down Payment: 3,510,147Cr
Charter Potential: 57,600Cr

Expenses        Full Load    80% Load    50% Load
Ship's Payment   914,101Cr   914,101Cr   914,101Cr
Maintenance       17,551Cr    17,551Cr    17,551Cr
Fuel              26,125Cr    26,125Cr    26,125Cr
Salaries         158,400Cr   158,400Cr   158,400Cr
Life Support     200,000Cr   200,000Cr   150,000Cr
Berthing           5,000Cr     5,000Cr     5,000Cr
Subtotal       1,321,176Cr 1,321,176Cr 1,271,178Cr

Income          Full Load    80% Load    50% Load
Middle Passage   400,000Cr   400,000Cr   200,000Cr
Freight        1,100,000Cr   875,000Cr   550,000Cr
Subtotal       1,500,000Cr 1,275,000Cr   750,000Cr

Profit/Loss      178,824Cr   -46,176Cr  -521,176Cr
=====================================================================

PRESS RELEASE

Udararuukin is pleased to announce the launching of its newest
freighter, the Khushdakaa class light freighter. Designed for 
the individual merchant in mind, the Khushdakaa (Vilani for 
"Opportunity") is a small design capable of being operated by a 
single individual (the normal crew complement, a pilot and a 
navigator, can be replaced with an indivudal handling both jobs). 
This makes it perfect for the enterprising captain wishing to ply 
the space lanes in search of profit and adventure. The small size 
also makes the Khushdakaa extremely affordable: with standard 20% 
discounts (normal for mass produced designs) the ship costs less 
than 18MCr.

Even though it is small and inexpensive, the Khushdakaa performs 
admirably. Nearly forty-five percent of its volume is devoted to 
cargo space (in the form of four 11 ton cargo bays and a single 1 
ton luggage bay), allowing plenty of room for speculative trading. 
The craft has four staterooms - two on the command deck, and two 
on the cargo deck. The freighter is designed to allow two passengers 
in meager comfort on the cargo deck, while the upper staterooms 
are used for the crew. If the ship is operated by a single individual,
the twin crew staterooms can be combined into a larger room/office 
suite. The ship has complete life support and personnel facilities 
on each deck, allowing passengers to be completely separated from the 
crew. This ensures in-flight security, a serious concern for 
independent merchants. If no passengers are desired, the passenger 
cabins can be taken out, freeing up an additional 4 tons of cargo 
space (separate from the main hold).

The Khushdakaa is powered by a single GRN-95 fusion reactor, 
producing 42MW of power nominally. The GRN-95 is a low maintenance, 
sturdy design that has proven to be quite reliable. The ship carries 
enough fuel for an entire year of power plant operation. The design 
is such that no user intervention, for maintenance or fueling, should 
be required until the ship's annual maintenance period. The ship has 
a power shortfall of 3.91 megawatts. This causes no serious problems, 
however, as the turret and fuel purification plant use 1.48 megawatts, 
and can be taken off line. In addition, the craft powers down its grav 
compensators during atmospheric operations. Should the turret (and any 
weapon mounted in it) or the purification plant be needed, the 
contra-grav systems can be powered down, freeing as much as 10 
megawatts. For emergencies, the ship has a bank of batteries capable 
of providing life support (minus grav plates) radios, and sensors for 
nearly two weeks.

Jumpspace operation is provided by a TM-71 jump drive, mounted 
alongside the fusion plant. The TM-71 is a zero-maintenance unit, 
capable of operating within its operational guidelines for over a year 
with no maintenance. The operational range of the Khushdakka is 1.08 
parsecs per week, nominal. Fuel storage is provided for 140 cubic meters 
of hydrogen, enough for a single jump at maximum range. 

The ship is equipped with exterior fuel rams and a complete purification 
system for allow for frontier refueling from gas giants or planetary 
surfaces. The single purification unit can purify the entire fuel supply 
in under 5 hours. As stated above, the Khushdakaa has enough baffled 
fuel tanks to allow one Jump-1. However, internal fuel hookups in the 
cargo bays can facilitate additional fuel storage tanks, at the expense 
of cargo space. Thus, the ship can make multiple jumps to reach 
distant destinations (each 11 ton cargo bay can be refitted as a 
10 ton fuel pod using collapsable fuel tanks available at any class A, 
B, or C starport).

For normal propulsion, the ship is equipped with twin U-9 thruster pods 
and a contra-grav system. The contra grav system can offset upto .5Gs 
of gravitational force when the ship is loaded, allowing the Khushdakaa's 
thrusters to achieve orbit. The design of the thrusters is unique - they 
are mounted on two pods on either side of the ship, on each on an 
independently rotatable axis.Thus, the drives can be swiveled downward 
for VTOL flight during takeoff and landing, and then rotated into a 
forward position for normal flight. In addition, since the drives are 
mounted independent of each other, they can be positioned at different 
angles. This makes the Khushdakaa an extremely nimble ship, able to 
perform in flight maneuvers that are impressive for a mere 1G craft. 
While the drives themselves are reliable, the translation equipment 
needs to be monitored and to ensure proper operation.

For dirtside operation, the Khushdakaa has room for a single 2-ton 
air/raft in a cramped docking slip. If the air/raft is not needed, 
the slip can be used for an additional 2 tons of cargo.

For self defence, the Khushdakaa has an empty standard 42m3 turret, 
capable of mounting a variety of light weaponry. The turret is slaved 
to the cockpit for control.

The Khushdakaa is a poor performer when operating only with freight 
and passengers - it is able to turn a modest profit only if it operates 
at 100% efficiency, which is a rare occurance for all but the most 
skilled traders. However, the enterprising captain should be able to 
turn a tidy profit by engaging in spectulative trading. Its admirable 
performance, ease of use, and low cost make it the perfect choice for 
the independent free trader. It should also be noted that for an
independent trader, the salaries can be dispensed with, improving
annual income by over 150,000Cr. 

Variations: It has already been noted that fuel tanks can be mounted
in the cargo pods. In addition, many captains customize the pods,
installing low berths, staterooms, or even weapons within. All of
these changes are custom performed by the owners, and are not
available from the maneufacturer. It should be noted that the cargo
pods are not pods in the truest sense - they cannot be detatched 
without severe structural work in a drydock.

For further information or ordering information, contact the 
Udararuukin sales department.

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                        |
| Home: igor@truserve.com - www.truserve.com/~igor/ - AIM: Iowa Akins |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/ - AIM: CMS AndyA    |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU: tc++(**) ru+ ge 3i+ jt- au+ ls+ kk+ hi+ as+ va+ dr+ so+ zh+   |
|       vi+ da+                                                       |
| Geek: GCS d- s+:+ a- C++ W++ w+++(-)$ PS+ PE t- 5++ X+ R+++ tv+     |
|       b+++ DI+ D-- G e+ h---- r+++ y++++                            |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 11:46:35 -0800
From: "Dave Strebe" <strebe@intergate.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Khushdakaa class light freighter (again)

Deckplans, you have deckplans? Could you please post them when
they are done?

Dave
- -----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Akins <igor@truserve.com>
To: Traveller@MPGN.COM <Traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 11:39 AM
Subject: Khushdakaa class light freighter (again)


>I was working on the deck plans for this ship, and it didn't look the way I
>liked. So, I changed the configuration, which changed the mass, whiched
>changed the engines, which changed the price, etc....
>
<snip>
>+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
>| Andrew Akins                                                        |
>| Home: igor@truserve.com - www.truserve.com/~igor/ - AIM: Iowa Akins |
>| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/ - AIM: CMS AndyA    |
>+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
>| IMTU: tc++(**) ru+ ge 3i+ jt- au+ ls+ kk+ hi+ as+ va+ dr+ so+ zh+   |
>|       vi+ da+                                                       |
>| Geek: GCS d- s+:+ a- C++ W++ w+++(-)$ PS+ PE t- 5++ X+ R+++ tv+     |
>|       b+++ DI+ D-- G e+ h---- r+++ y++++                            |
>+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 11:58:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Cook <markc@peak.org>
Subject: Re: .224 Boz or 10mm

Dom Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> writes:

> Mark Cook <markc@peak.org> wrote:
> 
> >     What is or are LEO's, and should hope it is nothing derogatory.
> 
> As a guess: Law Enforcement Officer's.

That's the right answer, Dom, but I didn't ask the question.  I'm
the one that used the acronym in the first place.  Heck, some of
my best friends are LEOs... and HRTs, CERTs, TOUs, DOCs, ERTs, CSOs,
SWATies, SORTies, HEATers, STARs,... but I digress. :^) :^)

        - Mark C.
          Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy
          EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75
          Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR
          NRA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)
          Front Sight First Family member #1

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 mark f. cook * mark cook consulting *  shoestring graphics & printing
 2055 s.w. whiteside dr. * corvallis, or, 97333-1406 * markc@ssgfx.com
 Phone: 541-753-2732      Fax: 541-753-2738       http://www.ssgfx.com
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    > I believe that "decimation" originated with the Roman legions.

    Of course it originated with the Romans! Who else would _need_
    a word that means "kill every tenth person"?  - Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:58:57 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Jump-6 courier networks

Hello,
>From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
...
>If you space the jumps at J6 then one TL15 planet every 150 parsecs is enough.
>This forms your communication backbone and information to and from it can be
>with cheaper ships.
...
>Just because Supp7 only showed one type of X-boat - why can't there be others?

  "The Courier Company" (formerly known as JumpExpress) salutes you, sir!

  Just for reference, it looks like the termini of JumpExpress services in the
Marches could be Trin, with two Jumps (via a tanker) getting you to Mora and
thence off the map through Sabine sub-sector. Rhylanor would be linked up via
JE F5's - two week service requiring 5-6 dedicated vessels for the link (at an
absolute maximum)*.

  If the Imperium suggested better corporate citizenship as a proviso for the
LIC, then Regina could be added the same as Rhylanor, and Glisten could be
linked
to Trin using a handful of JE F6's making two jumps/run.

  If the 3I wants Glisten linked directly to Mora, then they can $#@%& well do
it themselves - three connections for a lousy billion-odd customers?

 * Please check drop-box pick-up dates; the next delivery may not be for a week.

  Logically, "The Courier Company" (fka JumpExpress) also has a bump policy
for parcels that won't fit on weekly runs (assuming that data files are more
important to overall customer satisfaction), and maybe sends a 200-tonner per
month to clean up such accumulations.

  IAC, a J-5 link (running weekly) between Regina and Mora would require less
than BCr 1 to establish, and run in four jumps, compared to the possible dozen
or more for the little green lines of worm castings on the maps.

> "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"

  Don't you think that the delays might be a bit unreasonable? :)

  Hey, you know that if those contract-required low berths are mobile
that we could ship a popsicle from Trin to Capital at J-5+ (with a 
bonus for the pilots and some heavy liability limitations)? Cool.

        Yours truly,
                Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 15:24:56 -0500
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1189

> From: Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil>
> Subject: Re: Languages in Traveller
> 
> I think that German is more likely to take the place of French.  No
> offense intended to French-speakers on the list, but I believe that
> German is more widespread than French and is likely to stay so.

I would have thought you were wrong, but according to
http://www.sil.org/ethnologue/top100.html, the Ethnologue, you're right.
German has 98M versus French's 72M. Note the positions of Bengali and
Hindi however (4th and 5th behind Chinese, English & Spanish). They seem
somehow absent on all the lists posted so far...

Ethan
- --
Ethan Henry                                            egh@klg.com
Java Evangelist, KL Group                       http://www.klg.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:02:46 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Languages in Traveller

In a message dated 11/24/98 9:34:39 AM Central Standard Time,
gsmith@helot.arl.mil writes:

<< No offense intended to French-speakers on the list, but I believe that
 German is more widespread than French and is likely to stay so. >>

French dominates Africa to an extent not realized by many people, and it has a
foothold in Asia despite the loss of Vietnam. Everyone in Quebec speaks
French. Geman (on the other hand) is spoken in Germany and ?

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:13:31 EST
From: RSpake2064@aol.com
Subject: Re: Languages in Traveller

In a message dated 98-11-24 16:08:02 EST, you write:

<< French dominates Africa to an extent not realized by many people, and it
has a
 foothold in Asia despite the loss of Vietnam. Everyone in Quebec speaks
 French. Geman (on the other hand) is spoken in Germany and ?
 
 Marc >>

Marc, 

German happens to be the thrid largest language base in use....

The German language

German is one of the large group of Indo-Germanic languages, and within that
one of the Germanic languages. It is thus related to Danish, Norwegian,
Swedish, Dutch and Flemish, but also to English. The emergence of a common
High German language is attributed to Martin Luther's translation of the
Bible.

Germany has a wealth of dialects. It is usually possible to determine a
German's native region from his or her dialect and pronunciation. If a Frisian
or a Mecklenburger and a Bavarian were to carry on a conversation in their
respective pure dialects, they would have great difficulty understanding each
other.

Moreover, while the country was divided the two German states developed a
different political vocabulary. New words were coined which were not
necessarily understood in the other parts of the country. Nevertheless, the
common language was one of the links which held the divided nation together.

German is also spoken as the native language in Austria, Liechtenstein, most
of Switzerland, South Tirol (northern Italy) and in small areas of Belgium,
France (Alsace) and Luxembourg along the German border. The German minorities
in Poland, Romania and the countries of the former Soviet Union have partly
retained the German language as well.

German is the native language of more than 200 million people. About one in
every ten books published throughout the world has been written in German. As
regards translations into foreign languages, German is third after English and
French, and more works have been translated into German than into any other
language.

richard

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 23:24:07 +0200 (EET)
From: Eppu Tuominen <eptitu@utu.fi>
Subject: Re: GT: Ship Design Question

On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Bruce Alan Macintosh wrote:

> 
> >That one is a problem, I chose to assume that jump-drives can actually exceed
> >computed performance by about 5%.  
> 
> Speaking as a gearhead, I find this a little irritating - adding up 
> component masses and powers and costs to the fourth significant figure and
> then having to assume that the single bulkiest part of the ship is      
> automatically overdesigned by 5%. What about freighters? (I know, it's
> Just A Game...) I suppose one could take the model that the jump field
> actually extends a significant distance from the hull (several meters or
> more), which makes the hit for streamlining more comprehensible. 

 I dealt with this by assuming some of the (quite considerable) expense
for the turret itself goes into some form of stabilizer equipment based on
normal jump drive technology. (This would take up some of the 1 D.TON
inside the ship.) The 3% (stabilized) volume in excess of ship tonnage
would then be the limit the jump governor can handle without serious
reworking.

 Of course an unstabilized object latched on to the hull would be torn to
shreds at jump initiation, quite possibly causing a catastrophic collapse
in the jump bubble. (This would of course mean, that insystem ships have
no theoretical limit for the amount of turrets.)   

 BTW can anybody tell me what components go into the actual turret weapons
in G:T. I've been trying to recreate these with GURPS Vehicles, and the
numbers just don't seem to add up.
 The main problems (so far) are:

 1) What type of power bank was used? The only way I can get the (G)TL-12
values right is to use the "power slug" option from UTT (multiply volume
and mass by 40). Or am I just forgetting some vital component?

 2) What makes the (G)TL-10 version so much heavier, the only component I
can see that would be heavier at lower TL are power banks, which make up
only a tiny fraction of total mass (even if the "power slug" option _is_
in use).

 Any people here who had something to do with designing these? I could
really use some help! 

- -------------
Eppu Tuominen
eptitu@utu.fi
- -------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:30:19 -0500
From: keith frye <kmfrye@carroll.com>
Subject: 5FW to HG

Greetings All,

I'm new to the list, but have lurked for the better part of a month and
have played Traveller since the Golden Age.

Don McKinney wrote:
>Well, as far as I'm aware, there was never a definitive >answer as to 
>how FFW related to HG.

Someone tell me this isn't true, and that there is some way to convert High
Guard ship stats to 5FW or Invasion Earth squadron ratings.

C'mon Marc, you did it for the Ground Forces.;)

Regards
Keith 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:46:02 -0500
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: Languages in Traveller

At 04:02 PM 11/24/98 -0500, you wrote:
>In a message dated 11/24/98 9:34:39 AM Central Standard Time,
>gsmith@helot.arl.mil writes:
>
><< No offense intended to French-speakers on the list, but I believe that
> German is more widespread than French and is likely to stay so. >>
>
>French dominates Africa to an extent not realized by many people, and it has a
>foothold in Asia despite the loss of Vietnam. Everyone in Quebec speaks
>French. Geman (on the other hand) is spoken in Germany and ?
>
>Marc
 
Even though I'm not a big fan of the French (esp. in 2300AD ;-) ), French
is one of the languages of diplomacy.  If for that reason alone, I could
see it retaining widespread use, if only among the diplomats.

Kurt Feltenberger

“We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a
habit.”
- --- Aristotle ---

mailto:kurt@blazenet.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:37:40 -0500
From: "Paul Schirf" <pc@PerkWorks.com>
Subject: Re: Languages in Traveller

For those who didn't go to the page posted by Ethan Henry...
Rank / Language / Country / Population 
1 CHINESE, MANDARIN [CHN] China 885,000,000 
2 ENGLISH [ENG] United Kingdom 322,000,000 
3 SPANISH [SPN] Spain 266,000,000 
4 BENGALI [BNG] Bangladesh 189,000,000 
5 HINDI [HND] India 182,000,000 
6 PORTUGUESE [POR] Portugal 170,000,000 
7 RUSSIAN [RUS] Russia 170,000,000 
8 JAPANESE [JPN] Japan 125,000,000 
9 GERMAN, STANDARD [GER] Germany 98,000,000 
10 CHINESE, WU [WUU] China 77,175,000 
11 JAVANESE [JAN] Indonesia 75,500,800 
12 KOREAN [KKN] Korea, South 75,000,000 
13 FRENCH [FRN] France 72,000,000 
14 VIETNAMESE [VIE] Viet Nam 66,897,000 
15 TELUGU [TCW] India 66,350,000 
16 CHINESE, YUE [YUH] China 66,000,000 
17 MARATHI [MRT] India 64,783,000 
18 TAMIL [TCV] India 63,075,000 
19 TURKISH [TRK] Turkey 59,000,000 
20 URDU [URD] Pakistan 56,584,000 
21 CHINESE, MIN NAN [CFR] China 49,000,000 
22 CHINESE, JINYU [CJY] China 45,000,000 
23 GUJARATI [GJR] India 44,000,000 
24 POLISH [PQL] Poland 44,000,000 
25 ARABIC, EGYPTIAN SPOKEN [ARZ] Egypt 42,500,000 
26 UKRAINIAN [UKR] Ukraine 41,000,000 
27 ITALIAN [ITN] Italy 40,000,000 
28 CHINESE, XIANG [HSN] China 36,015,000 
29 FARSI, WESTERN [PES] Iran 34,679,300 
30 MALAYALAM [MJS] India 34,022,000 
31 CHINESE, HAKKA [HAK] China 34,000,000 
32 KANNADA [KJV] India 33,663,000 
33 ORIYA [ORY] India 31,000,000 
34 PANJABI, WESTERN [PNB] Pakistan 30,000,000 
35 SUNDA [SUO] Indonesia 27,000,000 
36 PANJABI, EASTERN [PNJ] India 26,013,000 
37 ROMANIAN [RUM] Romania 26,000,000 
38 BHOJPURI [BHJ] India 25,000,000 
39 MAITHILI [MKP] India 24,260,000 
40 ARABIC, ALGERIAN SPOKEN [ARQ] Algeria 22,400,000 
41 HAUSA [HUA] Nigeria 22,000,000 
42 BURMESE [BMS] Myanmar 22,000,000 
43 SERBO-CROATIAN [SRC] Yugoslavia 21,000,000 
44 CHINESE, GAN [KNN] China 20,580,000 
45 AWADHI [AWD] India 20,300,000 
46 THAI [THJ] Thailand 20,047,000 
47 DUTCH [DUT] Netherlands 20,000,000 
48 YORUBA [YOR] Nigeria 20,000,000 
49 AMHARIC [AMH] Ethiopia 20,000,000 
50 SINDHI [SND] Pakistan 19,675,000 
51 ARABIC, MOROCCAN SPOKEN [ARY] Morocco 19,542,000 
52 ARABIC, SA<IDI SPOKEN [AEC] Egypt 18,900,000 
53 UZBEK, NORTHERN [UZB] Uzbekistan 18,386,000 
54 MALAY [MLI] Malaysia 17,600,000 
55 INDONESIAN [INZ] Indonesia 17,000,000 
56 IGBO [IGR] Nigeria 17,000,000 
57 TAGALOG [TGL] Philippines 17,000,000 
58 NEPALI [NEP] Nepal 16,056,000 
59 ARABIC, SUDANESE SPOKEN [APD] Sudan 16,000,000 
60 SARAIKI [SKR] Pakistan 15,020,000 
61 CEBUANO [CEB] Philippines 15,000,000 
62 ARABIC, NORTH LEVANTINE SPOKEN [APC] Syria 15,000,000 
63 THAI, NORTHEASTERN [TTS] Thailand 15,000,000 
64 ASSAMESE [ASM] India 14,634,000 
65 HUNGARIAN [HNG] Hungary 14,500,000 
66 AZERBAIJANI, SOUTH [AZB] Iran 13,869,000 
67 MADURA [MHJ] Indonesia 13,694,000 
68 SINHALA [SNH] Sri Lanka 13,220,000 
69 HARYANVI [BGC] India 13,000,000 
70 MARWARI [MKD] India 12,104,000 
71 GREEK [GRK] Greece 12,000,000 
72 CZECH [CZC] Czech Republic 12,000,000 
73 CHHATTISGARHI [HNE] India 10,985,000 
74 MAGAHI [MQM] India 10,821,000 
75 DECCAN [DCC] India 10,709,800 
76 CHINESE, MIN BEI [MNP] China 10,537,000 
77 BELARUSAN [RUW] Belarus 10,200,000 
78 ZHUANG, NORTHERN [CCX] China 10,000,000 
79 ARABIC, NAJDI SPOKEN [ARS] Saudi Arabia 9,800,000 
80 PASHTO, EASTERN [PBU] Pakistan 9,685,000 
81 ARABIC, TUNISIAN SPOKEN [AEB] Tunisia 9,308,000 
82 RWANDA [RUA] Rwanda 9,306,800 
83 ZULU [ZUU] South Africa 9,140,000 
84 BULGARIAN [BLG] Bulgaria 9,000,000 
85 SWEDISH [SWD] Sweden 9,000,000 
86 LOMBARD [LMO] Italy 8,974,000 
87 SOMALI [SOM] Somalia 8,335,000 
88 PASHTO, WESTERN [PBT] Afghanistan 8,117,000 
89 OROMO, WEST-CENTRAL [GAZ] Ethiopia 8,000,000 
90 KAZAKH [KAZ] Kazakhstan 8,000,000 
91 ILOCANO [ILO] Philippines 8,000,000 
92 TATAR [TTR] Russia 8,000,000 
93 ARABIC, SANAANI SPOKEN [AYN] Yemen 7,600,000 
94 UYGHUR [UIG] China 7,595,512 
95 AZERBAIJANI, NORTH [AZE] Azerbaijan 7,059,000 
96 NAPOLETANO-CALABRESE [NPL] Italy 7,047,400 
97 KHMER, CENTRAL [KMR] Cambodia 7,039,200 
98 AKAN [TWS] Ghana 7,000,000 
99 FARSI, EASTERN [PRS] Afghanistan 7,000,000 
100 HILIGAYNON [ HIL] Philippines 7,000,000 
101 KURMANJI [KUR] Turkey 7,000,000 
102 SHONA [SHD] Zimbabwe 7,000,000 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:43:15 -0500
From: Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil>
Subject: Re: Languages in Traveller

RSpake2064@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 98-11-24 16:08:02 EST, you write:
> 
> << French dominates Africa to an extent not realized by many people, and it
> has a
>  foothold in Asia despite the loss of Vietnam. Everyone in Quebec speaks
>  French. Geman (on the other hand) is spoken in Germany and ?
> 
>  Marc >>
> 
> Marc,
> 
> German happens to be the third largest language base in use....
> 
> The German language
> 
> German is one of the large group of Indo-Germanic languages, and within that
> one of the Germanic languages. It is thus related to Danish, Norwegian,
> Swedish, Dutch and Flemish, but also to English. The emergence of a common
> High German language is attributed to Martin Luther's translation of the
> Bible.
> 
> Germany has a wealth of dialects. It is usually possible to determine a
> German's native region from his or her dialect and pronunciation. If a Frisian
> or a Mecklenburger and a Bavarian were to carry on a conversation in their
> respective pure dialects, they would have great difficulty understanding each
> other.
> 
> Moreover, while the country was divided the two German states developed a
> different political vocabulary. New words were coined which were not
> necessarily understood in the other parts of the country. Nevertheless, the
> common language was one of the links which held the divided nation together.
> 
> German is also spoken as the native language in Austria, Liechtenstein, most
> of Switzerland, South Tirol (northern Italy) and in small areas of Belgium,
> France (Alsace) and Luxembourg along the German border. The German minorities
> in Poland, Romania and the countries of the former Soviet Union have partly
> retained the German language as well.
> 
> German is the native language of more than 200 million people. About one in
> every ten books published throughout the world has been written in German. As
> regards translations into foreign languages, German is third after English and
> French, and more works have been translated into German than into any other
> language.
> 
> richard

Like Richard spake (I mean, said) <G>...

Citing the site that Ethan looked at, though, Germany has 121 million
including second language speakers, and French 124 million, for what
that is worth.  

I think German has more in the way of the science community (completely
unfounded but its my impression) and is the common language in many of
the former Warsaw Pact countries....before Russian.  Many (most?)
Russians speak German and English as their "second" language.  Millions
in South America too.

French was the language of state, but is it still?  English is the
language of money and perhaps state now.  The areas you cite as being
French speakers I don't see as being so influential in the development
of the stars, as I would see the German speakers.  I'd say it has
something to do with the drive of the individual people groups...  

I could be wrong there, as you are the author of this official future
history. <G>  
<image of Inspector Cleusau as Director, Imperial MoJ> 

NNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooot!

The Oriental/Chinese language will be prevalent no matter what, though.

Greg
The Count

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1190
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, November 24 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1191



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

long-range detection of spacecraft in the real world
Re: National Class
Re: mostly G:T
Re: Languages in Traveller
Re: Khushdakaa class light freighter (again)
Re: Languages in Traveller
Re: mostly G:T
Re: .224 Boz or 10mm
Terran Languages in the 3I
Re: Mass combat system for Traveller
Re: Imperium
Re: Alien Generater
Re: Languages in Traveller
Re: 3I ID and Clones
Re: [TWG] t5 SAEPs
Re: From the Friday night game
Re: Terran Languages in the 3I
Re: Languages in Traveller
Re: Terran Languages in the 3I

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 14:08:22 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: long-range detection of spacecraft in the real world

Take a look at 
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/releases/98/ds1palomar.html   ; 
using the 5-m Hale telescope at Palomar, JPL astronomers detected the
DS-1 spacecraft at a range of 3.7 million km.

In Definitive Sensor Rule terms, the 5-m is 
about a scanner-13 to 13.5 or so; DS-1 is about a -1 visible
signature (about the same as a 100-dTon ship - DS-1 doesn't have a black 
or chamelon coating.  Range is about 12. DS-1 was effectively a 
previously-detected target (+1.5) since they have a good radar position; 
Palomar is on an atmosphere-6 world (-0.5); and they're scanning a single hex
(+1), so the total signature is 13 - 1 -
12 + 1.5 - 0.5 +1 = 2, an automatic detection (which it pretty much was - 
it stands out very clearly in the image.) 

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 08:08:25
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: National Class

\
>From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
>Subject: Re: National class
>
>>The question is, therefore, what is the reaction going to be when rumours
>>hit the spaceways of Ciergatz SA's massive bond issue, and their investment
>>in an orbital construction facility for a 10 000 dton ship ?
>>
>        Well, right now, given that there are only three Class A starports
>IMTU (Terra, Alpha Centari, Sirius) which can barely keep up with demand
>now...  quite a stir.  Potentially out-right panic in Naval circles.
>Disbelief amongst shareholders ("No one's ever build anything that big
>before!").
>        100-years of game time later, it'd be a big deal for so large a
>merchant, but it'd be acceptable.

There is the story of when Lord Palmerston saw the first British steam
powered warship among the wooden walls of the RN, he described it as
'Looking like a black snake among the rabbits'.

Remember, a National is a close structure, which means it could be built in
modules, which are then connected in orbit.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 07:59:28
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: mostly G:T

>From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
>Subject: Re: Comments on G:T Decafreighter
>
>Ian or Katts writes:
>> 
>> It's a change in canon I dont like. The G:T rules as they stand make
>> planetfall-capable merchants too inefficient, and we want to encourage
>> ships that can make planetfall themselves, rather than stay in orbit and
>> have big interface shuttles come up to meet them.
>
>Hm?  Why specifically do we want to encourage that?  Streamlining is cheaper
>than carrying a shuttle until your ship is quite large, and ports which are
>likely to have a decent shuttle force of their own most likely also have a
>highport, so streamlining is sort of irrelevant.

Streamlining in G:T costs 20% of your internal volume, which means you
could put in a 20 dton craft in a vehicle bay for 21 dtons, compared to the
40 dtons needed to streamline a 200 dton ship. OK, you will have to
transfer the cargo in zero gee, but it's doable and saves 19 dtons of cargo
capacity.

I want to encourage it, because I want PCs to be able to park their
economically viable trading ship on planet occasionally, so they dont have
to leave the Engineer in orbit with the ship.

> 
>> Anyway, a mostly smooth sphere or cylinder should be capable of making
>> planetfall with contragravity, as long as you didnt leave too many bits
>> sticking out.
>
>Ah...long term dispute.  To be honest, _any_ ship in traveller,
streamlined or
>not, is probably capable of planetfall, provided it has enough thrust to
exceed
>local gravity.  

I used my words carefully ... 'too many bits sticking out' is a euphemism
for partial streamlining. Those 350 knot upper atmosphere winds are pretty
vicious.

>>> 
>> It's meant to be very hard to hurt with TL10 lasers. I'm not even sure that
>> DR2100 is thick enough.
>
>Why do you want a heavily armored ship?  Are you a warship?  You can accomplish
>the same goal with sandcasters for less weight and money.  To be honest, 20-30
>turrets is sufficient to scare off most ethically challenged individuals (ten
>triple sand, ten triple laser, ten triple missile, for example).  Remember,
>merchants are usually fond of lowering their costs, and anything that cuts down
>on the ability to carry more cargo hurts.

Sandcasters take up volume, at 1 dton per 3. Under the G:T rules, armour
does not take up volume.

>From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
>Subject: Re: Jump-6 courier networks (Was: Smuggling)
>
>Yeah, the exhachange rate from Hi Pop Low tech (TL8) Starport X worlds for
>credits is lousy - about 0.35 according to the TCS rules.
>

D starport, thanks. You can buy unrefined LHyd, and we have a number of
sites that could do duty as a starport ground facility.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 17:28:18 -0500
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com>
Subject: Re: Languages in Traveller

CardSharks@aol.com wrote:
> French dominates Africa to an extent not realized by many people, and it has a
> foothold in Asia despite the loss of Vietnam. Everyone in Quebec speaks
> French. Geman (on the other hand) is spoken in Germany and ?

and RSpake2064@aol.com wrote:
> German happens to be the thrid largest language base in use....

It's hugely ethno-centric of you to think that any European language 
(except English) rates in the top 10 in the world. Although German
just squeaks in (below Russian, Portugese and Spanish though), there
are vast, vast numbers of people in India and the general Indian 
subcontinent region that speak Hindu, Bengali, Telgu, Tamil, Urdu,
Gujarati, Malayalam, Kannada, Oriya, Panjabi, etc etc. Although they
may, on average, not be as affluent as the average westerner, there
are a lot of them and they are by no means backward - India has some
mightly fine research facilities and they hide a pretty mean nuclear
device to boot. Given a chance to get out of a fairly harsh climate
(both as a result of natural disasters and overpopulation), I think
"Indians" (for lack of a better name) would get the heck out and start
settling some new worlds pretty fast. By the time the Solomani Rim
has a place on the interstellar maps, I imagine you hear a heck of a lot
more Hindi than either French or German. Heck, Hindi is probably already
as old as the Third Imperium is in 1120. :)

Ethan, married to a Buddhist scholar
- --
Ethan Henry                                            egh@klg.com
Java Evangelist, KL Group                       http://www.klg.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:37:45 -0600
From: Andrew Akins <igor@truserve.com>
Subject: Re: Khushdakaa class light freighter (again)

At 04:50 PM 11/24/98 -0500, Dave Strebe wrote:
>Deckplans, you have deckplans? Could you please post them when
>they are done?

Absolutely. They'll be posted on my site with my other plans (actually, I
think there's only one set up right now...when I moved my website I took
down all my plans and have yet to restore them all).

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                        |
| Home: igor@truserve.com - www.truserve.com/~igor/ - AIM: Iowa Akins |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/ - AIM: CMS AndyA    |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU: tc++(**) ru+ ge 3i+ jt- au+ ls+ kk+ hi+ as+ va+ dr+ so+ zh+   |
|       vi+ da+                                                       |
| Geek: GCS d- s+:+ a- C++ W++ w+++(-)$ PS+ PE t- 5++ X+ R+++ tv+     |
|       b+++ DI+ D-- G e+ h---- r+++ y++++                            |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 17:43:12 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Languages in Traveller

The 1998 World Almanac and Book of Facts has this for Languages Spoken by the
Most People.
			Speakers (millions)
				native	total
1) Mandarin		863		1,025
2) Hindi			357		476
3) Spanish		352		409
4) English		335		497
5) Bengali		200		207
6) Arabic		200		235
7) Portugese	173		187
8) Russian		168		279
9) Japanese	125		126
A) German		99		126
B) French		75		127
C) Malay-Indo	57		170

Both German and French are near the bottom of the bunch and IMO unlikely to
have spread much beyond the Solomani Sphere (excepting the long range colony
missions ala the Islands and the sublight ships in G:T).  


Gary

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 15:01:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: mostly G:T

Ian or Katts writes:

> >Hm?  Why specifically do we want to encourage that?  Streamlining is
> >cheaper than carrying a shuttle until your ship is quite large, and ports
> >which are likely to have a decent shuttle force of their own most likely
> >also have a highport, so streamlining is sort of irrelevant.
> 
> Streamlining in G:T costs 20% of your internal volume, which means you
> could put in a 20 dton craft in a vehicle bay for 21 dtons, compared to the
> 40 dtons needed to streamline a 200 dton ship. OK, you will have to
> transfer the cargo in zero gee, but it's doable and saves 19 dtons of cargo
> capacity.

And that 20 dt shuttle costs a couple of megacredits, and adds 30-40 tons of
weight (thus requiring more manuever drives), and without having a second
shuttle you can't do fuel scooping (in fact, you can't obtain fuel at all
unless there's some at the highport), and significantly increases loading and
unloading time.  These are not negligible effects, particularly at low-grade
starports -- and the simple truth is, PC starships (_regardless_ of design) are
only viable at low-grade starports.  Multi-kiloton bulk freighters can undercut
them every time as long as there's sufficient cargo transit and facilities on
the route to support the larger freighters.

> I used my words carefully ... 'too many bits sticking out' is a euphemism
> for partial streamlining. Those 350 knot upper atmosphere winds are pretty
> vicious.

Not to something with the size and density of a traveller starship, at the
pressures in the upper atmosphere.  A ship with the average aerodynamic
streamlining of your average modern surface ship (which is to say, functionally
none) will be fine.  Obviously, you can design a ship which wouldn't withstand
low velocity atmospheric entry (large folding sensor arrays, for example), but
that's because it has components which are incapable of entering atmosphere
(regardless of actual streamlining of the hull) -- the hull itself will be
_fine_ for any ship capable of withstanding one G.
> 
> Sandcasters take up volume, at 1 dton per 3. Under the G:T rules, armour
> does not take up volume.

Well, sort of.  The armor doesn't take up volume, but the manuever drives
required to support the armor do.  For a 170,000 sf ship, +100 DR is 850 tons. 
Manuever drives to move this weight at 1 G are 21+ spaces and 3.4 MCr.  One
extra sandcaster is 1 space (plus 1/8 space manuever) and costs .27 MCr
including the extra manuever.  Unless you're expecting to defend against 10+
ships at once, the sandcasters are a better bargain.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 23:50:59 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: .224 Boz or 10mm

 Mark Cook <markc@peak.org> wrote:

>Dom Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> writes:
>> Mark Cook <markc@peak.org> wrote:
>>
>> >     What is or are LEO's, and should hope it is nothing derogatory.
>>
>> As a guess: Law Enforcement Officer's.
>
>That's the right answer, Dom, but I didn't ask the question.

Oops! Select, cut, paste, slip, delete ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:07:12 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Terran Languages in the 3I

My Cr .02 on the subject of which language would be more likely to
survive (French or German) into the 3I....

One factor that hasn't been mentioned yet is the tenacity of Francophone
populations in maintaining their use of French.  Here in Louisiana,
which has been owned by the Anglophone United States for nearly two
centuries, there is still a significant Francophone population.  Quebec
has resisted linguistic assimilation for even longer.  Haitian Creole
is, essentially, a mutated form of French.  German, OTOH, is primarily
found in Central European nations.  Given all that, I'd go with French
as more likely to survive.

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 08:57:57 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Mass combat system for Traveller

> As an aside, the creator of Full Thrust, Jon Tuffley, also has two ground
> combat games with Dirtside II and Stargrunt II.  While the nominally generic
> they are a bit more complex in the mechanics then Full Thrust and lend
> themselves more to a tech level as seen in 2300 AD or the Aliens universe, but
> again rules sets are out there and the mechanics can be played with easily
> enough to do TL14-15 combat.
> 
> Now we return you to your regularly scheduled Traveller discussions.....
> 
> Chris Ruhl
> SGT USAR
> 301st PSYOP Company (Airborne)

Interesting thing about Stargrunt:

There are Miniatures!

I can't remember if they are 25mm or 20mm, but they're nice, and don't have
Warhammer style inflato-weapons.  Just right for Striker II (or Striker I,
if you tweak the base sizes).  They've got vehicles, too, which are quite
FF&Sable.

Another thought:  do any of you gearheads design stuff other than ships?

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:20:13 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Imperium

 
> The second thing to remember is if you lose too many wars, you (the
> Provincial Governor) lose your job, and get to do the Vilani equivalent
of
> running a hydroelectric plant in Siberia.
> 
> Ian Whitchurch

Hang on.  Get a map of the Ziru Sirka.  Turn it ninety degrees, so Terra is
on the right hand side.  Compare with a map of Russia.

Now, what was that about Siberia, again?

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:27:41 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Alien Generater

- ----------
> From: Jeff Kazmierski <odysseus@fwb.gulf.net>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: Alien Generater
> Date: Tuesday, 24 November 1998 22:04
> 
> > Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:54:14 -0500
> > From: "Bob Sanders" <bsanders@amghome.com>
> > Subject: Alien Generater
> > 
> > I need some help!
> > 
> > Does anyone know of a resource that helps you generate alien races?... 
a
> > basic model, frame work, working notes, etc.
> > 
> > Thanks
> > 
> > Bob
> 
> I've got an old-fashioned chart-and-table system available at my web
site. 
> It's not too detailed, but it works pretty well and gives you a good
starting place.
> 
> Jeff Kazmierski
> odysseus@fwb.gulf.net
> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dreamworld/6532/traveller/ccport.html

Hmm..  My problem with churning out lots of alien races is that they need a
fair amount of work if they aren't to start suffering from "human in a dog
suit" syndrome, or need to become more than bugs to shoot.

While a skeleton model of some kind is a good idea, it needs to be stressed
that a lot of description is need.

Oh, and the "human in a dog suit" crack isn't really a gripe about the
Vargr - they're OK, but most other (non-uplifted) species shouldn't really
be like that.

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 10:30:48 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Languages in Traveller

- ----------
> From: CardSharks@aol.com
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: Languages in Traveller
> Date: Tuesday, 24 November 1998 15:00
> 
> In a message dated 11/23/98 2:23:13 AM Central Standard Time,
aramis@gci.net
> writes:
> 
> <<  Are there any ready information about languages, >>
> 
> Draft from the skill chapter for T5
> 
> 	Language	Int, Edu
> 	The individual knows one or more languages in addition to his or her
native
> language. 	When Language is received, the individual selects a specific
> foreign language other than his or her native language.

A few years ago I was living in Papua New Guinea.  PNG has the highest
density of languages in the world.  When I was there I met
illiterate/barely literate people who could speak multiple languages.

One was a classic case:  a Grade One dropout, effectively totally
illiterate - Edu 2-3?? Int about average, I guess.

She spoke 7 languages:  English, Motu and Pidgin ( the three common
languages of PNG)
Her parents' two languages (they were from different sides of the country)
Two languages she had learnt from friends.

Her English, while hardly grammatically correct, was right up there with a
native speaker.
Her Motu, according to another friend, who was a native Motu speaker, was
"Polis Motu" (Police Motu) - a pidginised dialect originally established
for the convenience of lazy colonial administrators.  Pure Motu has sounds
that aren't in English.  She used Motu as a daily language - ie was fluent.
Her Pidgin was also a daily language - ie was fluent.
I don't know about her grasp of her parents' languages.
She admitted that her grasp of the other two languages she spoke was weaker
than that of the five above...

Granted, she was an exceptional case:  her parents were from different
groups, and she lived in the city, rather than in a village in the boonies.
 Further, there would be no chance of her being able to talk meaningfully
about quantum mechanics, or anything that would require a higher education.

A more typical example would be: one native language, plus one of the
common languages, plus English for anyone who attended school (PNG schools
use an Australian curriculum).

> 	Native Language. Every character has a native language: the one learned
in
> childhood and currently used. The level of skill in a native language is
equal
> to the character’s Intelligence (but never more than 9).
> 	Default Language. A character’s native language in Traveller is, by
default,
> Anglic. Anglic is a form of English evolved over the course of thousands
of
> years and heavily influenced by other languages it has encountered. If a
> character does not specifically choose another language, his or her
native
> language is the default language.
> 	Format: Record this skill as Language (Specific). For example, Language
> (Spanish) or Language (Geonee).

The point of my example above is that it is possible to have multiple
"native languages".  The woman I described learnt all her languages in
childhood, and uses several of them on a daily basis.  I've even heard here
use three of them in a single conversation...

> 	Available Languages. The following languages are available for selection
> (other languages are possible and may be invented and selected).
> 
> >From Terra	From Other Worlds	From Other Races
> Anglic	Vilani	Vargr
> Spanish	Suerrat	Aslan
> French	Geonee	Droyne
> Chinese		Graytch
> 
> 	Language is a skill in a specific communication language. Linguistics is
the
> study of language in general.
> 
> Marc Miller

Sword Worlder "Icelandic", Zhodani and te-Zlodh (Darrian language) are
biggies in the Spinward Marches.

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 10:01:39 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: 3I ID and Clones

 <snip>
> What about clones?  Surely, some races have experimented with clones, 
> including the Solomani and the Imperium.  In fact, last week someone 
> posted an excellent pair of NPCs, one of whom was from a set of 
> clones.
> 
<snip> 
> 
> In Service,
> Jason
> 
> ============================
> Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer I
> (512)458-7111 ext. 3375
> 
> Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us

There are canon references to clones, particularly in Regency Sourcebook. 
Apparently Strephon's duplicates were clones, and Norris of Regina's
"daughter" Seldrian was apparently a modified clone (with another X
chromosome instead of a Y, apparently - sounds "easy" enough).

RSB says, in fact, that it was customary in the 3I for noble heirs to be
cloned at birth.  Norris wasn't, as he was a second son.  Presumably clones
can't inherit noble positions.  

Then again, CT Adventure 1 (Kinunir) has a noble locked up in a prison
hulk, for unspecified reasons.  Is this a clone of Norris' elder brother -
a "Man In The Iron Mask"?  (Of course, it could also be Norris himself, if
this bit of the Adventure is assumed to occur during the FFW, shortly
before the expedition to find the (ahem)...  Oops, I nearly gave away the
plot of Kinunir - has anyone run it recently, or are they thinking about
it?  I am, actually.)

These are clones in the Imperium.  The Solomani, of course, are the
"specialist" genetic engineers.

Yes, clones happen.  Have fun!

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:48:09 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: [TWG] t5 SAEPs

>
> >	First Contact is a stand-alone entry point detailing the Solar
> >System in
> >about 2100 (before Terra invents the Jump Drive). Use First Contact
without
> >any other Traveller book or supplementÖ rules, background, and the epic
> >adventure are all included.
> 
> Logically, this is a great book to have the kind of details found in
> Cyberpunk's _Deep Space_, the details of lower tech life in space. Plus a
> low tech QSDS for ion drives etc.
> 
> Not meant as criticism....
> Dom
> 

Actually, I see First Contact as the story of a revolution.  Terra starts
out balkanised, without the jump drive, and confined to a single star
system (ESA long range colonisation aside), and ends up united, with the
jump drive, and with several colonies/outposts.  If you start around 2077,
say, and end around 2120, a single PC could have been involved in it all!

Of course, this would include the First Interstellar War, and thus encroach
on the Interstellar Wars milieu, but the 1st IW would differ from the
others in that the Terrans are using TL 9/10, rather than TL10/11, would
have less developed colonies, less information, less coordination between
fleets, and generally be making it up as they go along.

This could really rock.  You could start off with sub-light "torch" ships,
kind of like the "clipper" sailing ships of last century - the highest
development of a technology about to be superceded.  Then you graduate to
J-0.1 turkeys, with the resulting race to build J-0.2, J-0.3 and better
ships (the race could be to improve navigational and manufacturing
techniques, rather than the actual drives themselves).  Then there is First
Contact, exploration of nearby systems (developing the required techniques
on the fly!), contact with the Vegans and other minor races, colonisation,
political and other conflicts between the not-in-the-slightest-bit-united
nations of Earth, arms buildups (but for use against who, exactly??), and
of course the Interstellar War...

This IS Traveller, and it all happens in a single lifetime....

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:16:32 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: From the Friday night game

> They knew the ship was in trouble as they approached it.  It was in a
slow,
> 3 axis spin (deadman's tumble), with the bow doors open and cargo
containers
> floating around the ship.  There were hull breaches around engineering,
and
> enough residual H2 detectable that it was evident that at least one of
the
> fuel tanks had been damaged.
> 
> There was a brief discussion about trying to dock - but it was tabled
after
> I started smiling...  They donned suits and jumped for the center of
mass.
> (There was also some discussion about just shooting a line attached to a
> magnet to the ship and letting the motion 'reel' the person in.  Funny,
> everyone wanted someone else to try it, but no one wanted to be the
one...)
> 
> They entered through engineering, on the starboard wing.  Power was
almost
> exhausted, so they had to use the manual systems to open the sphincter
> hatches (600 turns of that little knob down there...).  Once inside the
> starboard M-drive room, they found a handle for the hatch - which made it
a
> lot easier - and opened up the hatch to the cargo bay.

Obviously they didn't own any robots!  I wouldn't have gone in there for
quids, if I could have sent in some cheap, dumb and nasty droid.  

Actually, there is a fun/reality mismatch here.  For fun, the PCs should go
in.  In reality, you would, IF you had one available ( & could afford it),
send in some cheap dumbot instead - something like one of the gadgets they
use at Chernobyl, IIRC.  Let's face it, why take the risk of any EVA work,
if you can do it with a droid.  Even today, EVA mainly happens when
equipment fails.

Such a bot wouldn't be that expensive: a propulsion system, a
shortish-duration power source, a rudimentary brain, some sensors, and a
command/communications suite.  It could save your crew's life...
 
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 19:17:51 EST
From: RSpake2064@aol.com
Subject: Re: Terran Languages in the 3I

In a message dated 98-11-24 19:08:37 EST, you write:

<< One factor that hasn't been mentioned yet is the tenacity of Francophone
 populations in maintaining their use of French.  Here in Louisiana,
 which has been owned by the Anglophone United States for nearly two
 centuries, there is still a significant Francophone population.  Quebec
 has resisted linguistic assimilation for even longer.  Haitian Creole
 is, essentially, a mutated form of French.  German, OTOH, is primarily
 found in Central European nations.  Given all that, I'd go with French
 as more likely to survive. >>

i take it you havent been to the mountains of North Carolina, or
Pennsylvania...  there are alot of communities that have stubburnly held on to
their german language just as the Quebec and the caguns...

richard

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 10:50:06 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Languages in Traveller

- ----------
> From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: Languages in Traveller
> Date: Wednesday, 25 November 1998 8:43
> 
> The 1998 World Almanac and Book of Facts has this for Languages Spoken by
the
> Most People.
> 			Speakers (millions)
> 				native	total
<snip most of list>

> C) Malay-Indo	57		170
> 

This one is important.  The common language of Indonesia is Bahasa
Indonesia, not Javanese.  Bahasa Indonesia is a close relative of Bahasa
Malaysia, and was adopted as a national language when Indonesia became
independent.  (Javanese is a big language in its own right)

IMTU, Indonesia and to a lesser extent Malaysia, Singapore etc were closely
associated with the Australian space program.  Actually they provided most
of its industrial base...

In the real world, these countries were until recently industrialising
quite nicely.

They will be out there!

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 19:50:20 -0500
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: Terran Languages in the 3I

At 07:17 PM 11/24/98 -0500, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-11-24 19:08:37 EST, you write:
>
><< One factor that hasn't been mentioned yet is the tenacity of Francophone
> populations in maintaining their use of French.  Here in Louisiana,
> which has been owned by the Anglophone United States for nearly two
> centuries, there is still a significant Francophone population.  Quebec
> has resisted linguistic assimilation for even longer.  Haitian Creole
> is, essentially, a mutated form of French.  German, OTOH, is primarily
> found in Central European nations.  Given all that, I'd go with French
> as more likely to survive. >>
>
>i take it you havent been to the mountains of North Carolina, or
>Pennsylvania...  there are alot of communities that have stubburnly held on to
>their german language just as the Quebec and the caguns...

Having lived in central Pennsylvania for the past 25 years, this is only
true with the Amish, a minor percentage of the population.  More prevelent
though, is the idiom that is used with english.  A lot of the older, and
the less educated among the younger, residents use German sentance
structure for a fair bit of their english grammer.  For ex:  "Throw me down
the stairs my hat" would be used instead of  "Throw my hat down the stairs
to me."  

With this, I think even the same language could have different meanings,
even though it sounds the same.


Kurt Feltenberger

“We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a
habit.”
- --- Aristotle ---

mailto:kurt@blazenet.net

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1191
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, November 25 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1192



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Terran Languages in the 3I
Re: Capital Ships and Space Opera (Alternity?)
Re: Mass combat system for Traveller
Re: GT: Ship Design Question
Re: mostly G:T
Re: Terran Languages in the 3I
Re: Languages in Traveller
Re: Languages in Traveller
Re: Languages in Traveller
Re: Terran Languages in the 3I
Re: Languages in Traveller
re: Terran Languages in the 3I
Density (gearheads alert)
Re: Languages in Traveller
Re: GURPS: Traveller PBEM game.
Re: Languages in Traveller
Re: Languages in Traveller
Zhunatsu Enterprises
Stellar Diameter
Re: Languages in Traveller
Off Topic Request - Aftermath RPG
Anyone on the list in Carlisle
Traveller Digest 1-8
Re: Languages in Traveller
Re: Languages...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 19:45:30 -0500
From: "Paul Schirf" <pc@PerkWorks.com>
Subject: Re: Terran Languages in the 3I

> i take it you havent been to the mountains of North Carolina, or
> Pennsylvania...  there are alot of communities that have 
> stubburnly held on to their german language just as the 
> Quebec and the caguns...


My family is from backwater Pennsylvania... I wish this were 
the case, as I'd love to speak more German.  

The Pennsylvania communities which held onto their non-English 
languages were doing so only through and because of "late coming" 
immigrants.  After the flow of Europeans stopped the pocket 
communities of Pennsylvania rapidly disappeared.  There are
some areas where German is still spoken, but they are
not as prevalent as the French communities in other parts 
of North America.

Then again... 
   a space colony of Amish would be an interesting thing. ;-)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 20:16:48 EST
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Capital Ships and Space Opera (Alternity?)

In a message dated 11/24/98 5:24:18 AM Pacific Standard Time,
fabio@darksiderpg.ml.org writes:

<< Don't want to begin a flame war, but have you actually seen the system?
 Unless you're handing out restricted weapons at every corner the best
 weapons in Alternity *are* slug-firing, and I've found that melee
 weapons do pretty well too. >>

	I have seen the system...although I have never played/run it.  My
observations were based on the people who played Alternity that I attempted to
bring over to Trav.  I suppose the system can be a lot of fun...but it is far
too space-opera for my tastes (and my other players).  If we are in that mood,
we have Star Wars (how many days till the new one...open, open, open <line
from a local dept store sale commercial>

DustyLV769

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:20:29 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Mass combat system for Traveller

...
>Interesting thing about Stargrunt:
...
>I can't remember if they are 25mm or 20mm, but they're nice, and don't have
>Warhammer style inflato-weapons.  Just right for Striker II (or Striker I,
>if you tweak the base sizes).  They've got vehicles, too, which are quite
>FF&Sable.

  25mm, and some of them look passably like Imperial Marines.

>Another thought:  do any of you gearheads design stuff other than ships?

  I just found the original worksheets for the Striker (I) micro-armour
stats to a bunch of 20th C. based designs. Not terribly relevant to most
PC's though (at least so they hope).

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 22:21:21 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: GT: Ship Design Question

At 12:51 PM 24/11/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 11/23/98 4:28:16 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>yikes@evansville.net writes:
>
><< Me too. I have thought that bays were internal ever since I was introduced
> to the term in _High Guard_. I never knew that they were just big honkin'
> turrets (Imperial designation; BHTs). Why call them bays at all? I also
> thought that virtually all starship turrets were of the pop-up variety
> (regardless of MT illos), although I am not sure where I got that idea.
>  >>
>
>AHL treats bays as enormous pop up turrets (those are the 12 dorsal triple
>turrets that you see on the box front, which I always thought confusing-they
>look too much like a triple beam turret. The artist should have used 50 tiny
>tubes instead). The deck plans clearly show this, though interestly, neither
>the illustration nor the deck plans show the hundreds of turrets at all...
>
        
        The problem is that for art, the Starblazer/Yamamoto 16"x3 is
toooooooo cooooool.
        For 'Trek Fans, you need internal *everything* (why are there no USP
9 laser bays?)
        For tacticians, you want manymanymanymanymany can't-stomp'em-all-out
turrets...
        For Gearheads, who cares as long as the volume is right?
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 12:54:04
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: mostly G:T

>From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
>Subject: Re: mostly G:T
>
>Ian or Katts writes:
>
>And that 20 dt shuttle costs a couple of megacredits, and adds 30-40 tons of
>weight (thus requiring more manuever drives), and without having a second
>shuttle you can't do fuel scooping (in fact, you can't obtain fuel at all
>unless there's some at the highport), and significantly increases loading and
>unloading time.  These are not negligible effects, particularly at low-grade
>starports -- and the simple truth is, PC starships (_regardless_ of
design) are
>only viable at low-grade starports.  Multi-kiloton bulk freighters can
undercut
>them every time as long as there's sufficient cargo transit and facilities on
>the route to support the larger freighters.
>

20dtons of cargo space earns KCr 40 revenue per month. This will support a
couple of megacredits in extra sticker cost. Plus you can have express
cargo already in the ship's boat, ready for the first trip down.

Smaller ships can and have competed with bigger ones on the same route,
*provided* they are prepared to load, up and go immediatly. None of this
one week stuffing around waiting for a cargo ... when the cargo shows up,
you *go*.

Personally, I believe that you should be able to load the LHyd equivalent
of 44 gallon drums of AvGas onto your gig at the downport, and then
transfer them back off the gig and into the tanks. It's a bitch of a job,
but it strikes me as doable (the airport at Currie on King Island used 44
gallon drums of avgas to refuel the light planes that landed on the island).

Now, according to p119 of G:T it takes 18 minutes to escape Earth's
gravitational field at 2 gees, so I'd say that a one hour round trip is
reasonable.

>> I used my words carefully ... 'too many bits sticking out' is a euphemism
>> for partial streamlining. Those 350 knot upper atmosphere winds are pretty
>> vicious.
>
>Not to something with the size and density of a traveller starship, at the
>pressures in the upper atmosphere.  A ship with the average aerodynamic
>streamlining of your average modern surface ship (which is to say,
functionally
>none) will be fine.  Obviously, you can design a ship which wouldn't
withstand
>low velocity atmospheric entry (large folding sensor arrays, for example),
but
>that's because it has components which are incapable of entering atmosphere
>(regardless of actual streamlining of the hull) -- the hull itself will be
>_fine_ for any ship capable of withstanding one G.

I am perfectly happy with the level of streamlining on a modern surface
ship (ie it's a cow ... dont expect to play with grav fighters in the
atmosphere) being available, just as long as it costs less than 20% of the
volume of the ship.

Make 'partial streamlining' cost 10% of ship volume, maximum 10 dtons, and
I'll come to the party. Stubby wings, minimal lift, blobs of plastic over
the sensor arrays ...

>> 
>> Sandcasters take up volume, at 1 dton per 3. Under the G:T rules, armour
>> does not take up volume.
>
>Well, sort of.  The armor doesn't take up volume, but the manuever drives
>required to support the armor do.  For a 170,000 sf ship, +100 DR is 850
tons. 
>Manuever drives to move this weight at 1 G are 21+ spaces and 3.4 MCr.  One
>extra sandcaster is 1 space (plus 1/8 space manuever) and costs .27 MCr
>including the extra manuever.  Unless you're expecting to defend against 10+
>ships at once, the sandcasters are a better bargain.

The other consideration is that armour doesnt need crew.

The Decafreighter massed a lot to start with, so it only pulled 0.6 gees.

Lots of light fighters are a viable method of conducting piracy ... but at
the end of the day, it's a design decision. If purchasers want a 10kt
heavily-armoured ship, they buy a FS Decafreighter. If they want a 10kt
ship with lots of sandcasters, they buy something else.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 19:13:34 -0800
From: "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@home.com>
Subject: Re: Terran Languages in the 3I

>My Cr .02 on the subject of which language would be more likely to
>survive (French or German) into the 3I....
>
>One factor that hasn't been mentioned yet is the tenacity of Francophone
>populations in maintaining their use of French.  Here in Louisiana,
>which has been owned by the Anglophone United States for nearly two

If you call that stuff the cajans speak french. you need lesson in the
language

>centuries, there is still a significant Francophone population.  Quebec

as for french in quebec, not so far gone as cajan, but ask any of them to
write something. I've seen all kinds of different spelling used for the same
words

>has resisted linguistic assimilation for even longer.  Haitian Creole
>is, essentially, a mutated form of French.  German, OTOH, is primarily
>found in Central European nations.  Given all that, I'd go with French
>as more likely to survive.
>


it will survive but it will not be the French we barely know now

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 22:22:01 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Languages in Traveller

CardSharks@aol.com wrote:

> French dominates Africa to an extent not realized by many people, and it has a
> foothold in Asia despite the loss of Vietnam. Everyone in Quebec speaks
> French.

Well, not everyone.  Not even everyone in Montreal.
Buy very significant, certainly.

> Geman (on the other hand) is spoken in Germany and ?

Austria & Switzerland.  Also very common in Denmark and other
Northern European states.,

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 22:23:33 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Languages in Traveller

RSpake2064@aol.com wrote:

> About one in
> every ten books published throughout the world has been written in German.

And all the rest are published by German-owned publishing companies.

;-)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 22:38:44 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Languages in Traveller

TravelrTNE@aol.com wrote:

> Both German and French are near the bottom of the bunch and IMO unlikely to
> have spread much beyond the Solomani Sphere (excepting the long range colony
> missions ala the Islands and the sublight ships in G:T).

Assuming an even representation of Solomani in Space, I would agree.

However, my view of history suggest to me that as Terrans move
to space, the populations (and their languages) will not be proportionally
represented.

IMHO, the languages of the technologically advanced contries will
dominate.  (English, Mandarin, Japanese, German, Russian,

Additionally, the French as a whole, have been so adamant about
maintaining the integrity of its language, I doubt very strongly that
the Rule of Man will wipe it out entirely, just minimize it proliferation.

(And it would be pretty neat to throw into the Santry/Cordova mix. ;)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 22:42:12 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Terran Languages in the 3I

RSpake2064@aol.com wrote:

> i take it you havent been to the mountains of North Carolina, or
> Pennsylvania...  there are alot of communities that have stubburnly held on to
> their german language just as the Quebec and the caguns...

Also New Braunfels, Texas.  You can still find some non-English
speakers out there, though most have had English as a Second language
now.

In Minnesota and Wisconsin, most Scandanavian tongues are still
represented out in the boonies.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 22:45:40 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Languages in Traveller

Paul Schirf wrote:

> For those who didn't go to the page posted by Ethan Henry...
> Rank / Language / Country / Population

This seems to be based _solely_ on population.
Thats where it fails.  It is completely erroneous to
assume that all in the UK and US speak English as their
native language.

The prevalence of French, German, Spanish, and other
languages is much higher when you consider them as
second languages.  Many of the the African populations
have an African native language but learn French _and/or_
English as a second language.

A huge percentage of allegedy native English speakers
speak Spanish both as a native and second languages.

I don't think there is any accurate way to quantify these.
I think that list cannot be relied upon for any degree of
accuracy.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 22:31:34 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Terran Languages in the 3I

Wayne Ewart wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Given all that, I'd go with French
>as more likely to survive.
>


it will survive but it will not be the French we barely know now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Try reading Chaucer sometime - or even, to a lesser extent, Shakespeare.
These are  English, and much closer in time to us than the 1100's Third 
Imperium.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:01:22 +1300
From: Blair Lynch-Blosse <blairlb@waikato.ac.nz>
Subject: Density (gearheads alert)

Hi there all,

I'm a long time lurker, first time writer (well at least for a long time
anyway) and have a question regarding densitometers. What do they measure?

Ones first reaction would be (duh) density, but this is not a force unto
itself. The MT ImpEncyc (sorry but I live in the Dark Ages) states that it
is a spin off of gravitic technology that uses an objects natural gravity
to measure its density. The problem with this is that often, if you are
doing a search of space for an object, you don't know exactly the size of
the object (hence its gravity signature).

From first principles, not knowing the distance, volume or size of an
object makes a scan near useless. However, once an object has been located
(either by passive or active EMS), a lock by LADAR (or similar means) can
be used to determine range, which (plugging into the formula) gives and
accurate mass.

IMTU I'm using the formula - gravity = mass x constant / distance squared.
Is this a fair assumption? I'm not sure of the constant (I'm at work) but
6.667 x 10-11 seems to ring a bell.  Anyway, I'm interested as to how
densitometers are worked IYTU.

Thanks for the Bandwidth,

Blair L-B

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 22:53:12 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Languages in Traveller

In a message dated 11/24/98 3:17:35 PM Central Standard Time,
RSpake2064@aol.com writes:

<< German happens to be the thrid largest language base in use....
 
 The German language
 
 German is one of the large group of Indo-Germanic languages, and within that
 one of the Germanic languages. It is thus related to Danish, Norwegian,
 Swedish, Dutch and Flemish, but also to English.  >>

You mean if you include all germanic languages (including English) then it is
the third largest?

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 23:38:54 -0500
From: Brandon Quina <lore@tmgbbs.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS: Traveller PBEM game.

> merc, merchant, pirate hunter, psionic. I build my character as I
> play, the concept I use is the one world character type description. I
> lake the challange of difficult archtypes

Intresting.  Pick one of those concepts, and flesh it out abit more.
No stats, not yet, just abit of background.  :)  To help you out, i'll
tell you what kinda game i'm planning on running....



        The game starts off on a small planet named 'Seran', but mostly
known as 'Dirtball' to its inhabitants.  It's mostly a desert planet,
which is home to one indigenous reptilian minor race (details will be
provided, if needed.)  There is only one large body of water, though
smaller bodies are more common.  The planet has been under Imperial
Martial Law for several years now, a condition that shows no signs
of showing down;  most people have gotten used to it, though afew
people still oppose the situation.

        The population of the planet is 6 (around 7 million, most of
them in the single large city), with a class III starport.

        The campaign is going to start off with the players acting
individually, and will gradually get togther.  We're going to start
on the planet, and hopefully move off into space together.  :)





- -- 
Brandon,

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 23:15:14 -0600
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Languages in Traveller

German (on the other hand) is spoken in Germany and ?


I would place my vote for certain South American countries, Central Texas,
Austria, oh well, thats all I can think of.
:)
TV

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 21:34:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Sword Worlder <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Languages in Traveller

Sorry to butt in...

Remember that the colonization of space in Trav is not a "conquer the
natives" scenario as most of Terran colonization, and therefore
language spread, has been.  They find a superior and, in their minds,
hostile universe out there.  It takes centuries to conquer.  In that
time I see multiple languages as a problem that will need to be
overcome.  Certainly, many cultural enclaves will maintain their
native tongues, but the starfaring peoples willlargely be the techical
a combat trained types who will need to use a common language.  That
common language will be the first to reach most worlds.  It will be
the language of communication.  It will be the language of reports
related back to Terra and it's colonies.

What language will it be?  Who cares.  It will be a fairly easy to
learn, simple to conjugate core language.  Added to it will be nearly
every important word from every Terran language still spoken and
several that aren't.  The core will contain all that is important for
technical and military interaction.  It will be the language of
instruction, warning and merchandising.  It will be born of necessity
to facilitate the rapid growth of technology, colonization and
military capability.  Consider "Starship Troopers".  How much time was
spent arguing over what language would be best to use?

Like I said, sorry to butt in.  I'll shut up, now.
==
- ------------------------><>------------------------
IMTU 0601 tc++ tm !tn t4+ ?tg ru++ 3i pi ta+ he+ 
http://come.to/traveller

Visit the "Subsidized Merchant" - http://surf.to/traveller-trader 
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 01:18:24 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Zhunatsu Enterprises

>>Zhunastu Enterprises do not survive into 1100. There is no
>>information on what happens to it (my own theory is that it
>>goes down the tubes during the Civil War), but it definitely
>>isn't around any longer. 

>My view is that Artemus breaks it up in return for holdings in
>the other MegaCorps, or potential MegaCorps. This will defuse
>potential concerns about his pacification policies and the
>concentration of power...

My take is that Cleon himself began its ruin as a
megacorporation. Since he expected his family to control the
throne, he concentrated on growing the Imperium with less
attention to the business portion of ZE. When Cleon II abdicated, 
ZE was partitioned between public and private holdings. The
portion that remained in the Zhunatsu family lost its
technological advantage and increasingly lost favored status as
prime contractor for the Imperium.  Cleon II was no better a
businessman than a ruler, and his absentee managers far less
competent than Artemsus was as emperor.  Hence ZE never expanded
much beyond Core sector, though it remained an important second-
rank company during the early centuries of the Imperium. I'd
attribute its final decline to Cleon the Mad.
  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 01:18:20 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Stellar Diameter

Ewan Quibell wrote:

>I've had a quick look through WBH and have found the Stellar
>mass tables, but could not find anything for Stellar Diamiter.

>Did I miss something ? If not is there any way to generate, or
>gage stellar diamiter from Stellar mass or stellar type ?

I've been looking into this myself and happen to have a 1996
Astrophysics textbook checked out from the local university
library. Although the spectral type, luminosity, and temperature
of star are correlated with its mass and composition, the
relationship is not simple and it's best to use a table.
Masses are estimated from observation of binary systems.

However, Stellar radii (and thus diameters) are usually
calculated from the luminosity (based on observable magnitude and
estimated distance) and estimated temperature (derived from the
spectrum). 

Rstar/Rsun = (Tsun/Tstar)^2 * sqrt(Lstar/Lsun)
  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 20:27:14 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Languages in Traveller

CardSharks@aol.com wrote:

> French dominates Africa to an extent not realized by many people, and it has a
> foothold in Asia despite the loss of Vietnam. Everyone in Quebec speaks
> French.

But no one outside of recognizes it.

> German (on the other hand) is spoken in Germany and ?

Pennsylvania, Illinois, Washington, Idaho, and many places on the eastern
seaboard.
Most of my family speaks either german or spanish. And we've been here longer
than the country, go figure.
- --
Ave et vale.
Evyn,
Warleader of the Clan MacDude
Solus Stellamilitia Ludus, 1998 Œ

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 07:07:29 EST
From: JHorner443@aol.com
Subject: Off Topic Request - Aftermath RPG

Sorry about the non Traveller request, I am wanting to find a list of all the
products produced by FGU for the Aftermath game. 

Any info would be great.

Many thanks.

John Horner

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 07:08:56 EST
From: JHorner443@aol.com
Subject: Anyone on the list in Carlisle

I am looking for new players / GM's in the Carlisle area of Cumbria (UK),
anyone out there!

If so, please contact me.

John Horner

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 07:11:00 EST
From: JHorner443@aol.com
Subject: Traveller Digest 1-8

Does anyone have any duplicates/unwanted (I can only hope) of Travellers
Digest     1-8, or any idea of dealers who may have copies.

John Horner

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 23:33:45 +0100
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <greimann@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: Languages in Traveller

At 16:02 24.11.98 -0500, you wrote:
>In a message dated 11/24/98 9:34:39 AM Central Standard Time,
>gsmith@helot.arl.mil writes:
>
><< No offense intended to French-speakers on the list, but I believe that
> German is more widespread than French and is likely to stay so. >>
>
>French dominates Africa to an extent not realized by many people, and it
has a
>foothold in Asia despite the loss of Vietnam. Everyone in Quebec speaks
>French. Geman (on the other hand) is spoken in Germany and ?

Austria 
and 
Switzerland
and 
Belgium
and
.....
Volker
- ---
Volker A. Greimann, greimann@geocities.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 00:06:31 +0100
From: Jesus <324064@cienz.unizar.es>
Subject: Re: Languages...

Brandon Quina escribió:

> Here are my views on languages.  There abit diffrent from the ones
> described by mostly everybody else.  I've tried to include both the
> name of the language, its origins, its common users, how common it
> is, and possibly afew short words.  (NOTE:  The names are somewhat
> changed for the same reason its 'Anglic' as opposed to 'English')
> VILANI LANGUAGES
>         The Vilani used to have more than one language, though they
> never had many of them.  In the days of the Ziru Sirka, the number of
> languages dwindled as the Vilani realized that it was more efficient
> to have only one language.  By the time the Terrans encountered the
> Vilani, they all spoken the language that has come to be known as
> Old High Vlandi.  It is now mostly known as simply Vlandi.
>

Reading Vilani&Vargr p15 you see that in ancient times was one language.
this evolved in many dialects and languages, but before the space travels
one was prevalent, Old High Vilani, the scholastic form is Clasical Written
Vilani, the evolution of the Old High Vilani is the modern Vilani and its
sub-languages, the use of the correct sub-language is detrmined by the
social circustances.

>
> VARGR LANGUAGES
>         The Vargr have several dozen, if not several hundred, languages.
> Each planet on which the Vargr were seeded ended up with several various
> languages, and those languages never died out like many of the 'old
> languages' of other Major Races.  Instead, they just changed abit over
> the years.  The only change in their pattern of communication came
> about around 1000 years ago, when an unsuccessful attempt at a Vargr
> empire left behind one thing:  Gveh.  Gveh is a very simple language,
> and can only be used to communicate very simple concepts.  However,
> a great enough percentage of Vargr in the Vargr extents speak the
> language such that it is a suitable method of inter-race communication.
> Vargr generally either known Anglic as their native language, or they
> known *two* native languages (give them the second for free).  The
> first language being their native language, and only usuable to
> communicate with a small percentage of the Vargr population.  The
> second one is Gveh, which can be used to communicate with a much
> greater percentage;  but only very simply.
>

The principal Vargr Languages are Gvegh (used in the Zhodani
Marches),Logaksu(in Lair),Aekhu (in Deneb), Gvegh-Aekhu(overlap in
gvurrdon), Urzaeng(Coreward Windhorn), Ovaghoun(Provence,Windhorn, and
Meshan), Suedzuk(Vargr Enclaves), Irilitok(Julian).

This is acording to the material of DGP, I don't know if this is Canon or not.
I remember a Challenge where Lucan imposed the High Sylean as the language
of the court, but i have never read another mention to the Sylean, Somebody
knows more about it?


>
> --
> Brandon,
> That's all for now.  If this is well recieved, I might send more to
> the list.  ::smiles::

- --
- -Jesus

     The Truth may be out there,
     but lies are inside your head.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1192
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, November 25 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1193



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

RE:  Alien Generation
Re: Density (gearheads alert)
Re: Density (gearheads alert)
Re: Density (gearheads alert)
Re: Density (gearheads alert)
Anyone know what this is about?
Off-topic Question: Greek Muse of Poetry
Re: Bays in G:T
Re: Anyone know what this is about?
Re: Zhunastu Enterprises
Re: Terran Languages in the 3I
Re: Off-topic Question: Greek Muse of Poetry
Re: Jump-6 courier networks
Re: Jump-6 courier network
Re: Languages in Traveller
Hull Design - UN-DSN "County-Class" Strike Carrier, TL 11

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 07:11:31 -0600
From: "James Pearson" <jdpearson@wr.net>
Subject: RE:  Alien Generation

>  Does anyone know of a resource that helps you generate alien races?... 
> > a basic model, frame work, working notes, etc.
> > 
> > Thanks
> > 
> > Bob

An old Dragon magazine published some pretty good rules (at least covering
their physical attributes).  I have a copy but don't know if it's
available anywhere else still.


 -- James Pearson
"The purpose of a referee is to present obstacles 
for players to overcome as they go about seeking 
their goals, not to constantly make trouble for them.
This is a very subtle distinction ..."

The Traveller Book, p. 12

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/4089

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 08:45:51 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: Density (gearheads alert)

At 05:01 PM 11/25/98 +1300, you wrote:
>Hi there all,
>
>I'm a long time lurker, first time writer (well at least for a long time
>anyway) and have a question regarding densitometers. What do they measure?
>
>Ones first reaction would be (duh) density, but this is not a force unto
>itself. The MT ImpEncyc (sorry but I live in the Dark Ages) states that it
>is a spin off of gravitic technology that uses an objects natural gravity
>to measure its density. The problem with this is that often, if you are
>doing a search of space for an object, you don't know exactly the size of
>the object (hence its gravity signature).
>
>>From first principles, not knowing the distance, volume or size of an
>object makes a scan near useless. However, once an object has been located
>(either by passive or active EMS), a lock by LADAR (or similar means) can
>be used to determine range, which (plugging into the formula) gives and
>accurate mass.
>
>IMTU I'm using the formula - gravity = mass x constant / distance squared.
>Is this a fair assumption? I'm not sure of the constant (I'm at work) but
>6.667 x 10-11 seems to ring a bell.  Anyway, I'm interested as to how
>densitometers are worked IYTU.
>
>Thanks for the Bandwidth,
>
>Blair L-B
>
If I recall correctly, late model densitometers can actually use the
objects gravity to map the interior of the object, since open spaces
produce less gravity (gas having less mass than the bulkheads). Older
models are basically a gravitic force measuring device, giving a direction
to the object exerting the most gravitic force on you at a given range.

Your formula above looks as if it uses an objects apparent volume to
compute mass, which if the density of the object is known, will work.
However, in a typical encounter in space, there would be to many other
unknowns for this to work. It would still give a rough idea, but don't put
away that densitometer yet.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 15:54:59 +0200 (EET)
From: Eppu Tuominen <eptitu@utu.fi>
Subject: Re: Density (gearheads alert)

On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Blair Lynch-Blosse wrote:

> Hi there all,
> 
> I'm a long time lurker, first time writer (well at least for a long time
> anyway) and have a question regarding densitometers. What do they measure?
> 
> Ones first reaction would be (duh) density, but this is not a force unto
> itself.

 And neither is gravity BTW.  

> The MT ImpEncyc (sorry but I live in the Dark Ages) states that it
> is a spin off of gravitic technology that uses an objects natural gravity
> to measure its density. The problem with this is that often, if you are
> doing a search of space for an object, you don't know exactly the size of
> the object (hence its gravity signature).
>  
> From first principles, not knowing the distance, volume or size of an
> object makes a scan near useless. However, once an object has been located
> (either by passive or active EMS), a lock by LADAR (or similar means) can
> be used to determine range, which (plugging into the formula) gives and
> accurate mass.

  IMO a densitometer based on measuring the actual gravitational
attraction of the target object is not too plausible. (I assume this is
what you are talking about, correct me if I'm wrong.) The attraction of
even a starship sized object would be lost in the interference caused by
the surrounding solar system even if you tried to measure it just a few
thousand klicks away. Some other principle (probably one modern physics
knows nothing about) must be at work here.
 
 Essentially you're right, howewer, to get density from gravity (whichever
way you measured the latter) you definitely need volume, and even some
rough idea of shape.

> IMTU I'm using the formula - gravity = mass x constant / distance squared.
> Is this a fair assumption? I'm not sure of the constant (I'm at work) but
> 6.667 x 10-11 seems to ring a bell.  Anyway, I'm interested as to how
> densitometers are worked IYTU.

  IMTU densitometers have two distinct uses:
 1) Long range scan: This uses a network of laser interferometers on the
ship's hull (yes, that would mean densitometers consume hull area) to
detect nanometer scale fluctuations in the hull's dimensions caused by
gravitational waves put out by other massive objects.
  This is good for finding planets and other bodies in a star system you
just jumped into, as well as detecting any jump emergence signatures and
active reactionless drives within a few AU of you.    
 
 2) Short range scan: At much closer (visual) ranges the info from the
interferometer network can be combined with PEMS/AEMS scan of the object
in question to produce at least an educated guess of the object's internal
structure (lots of computing power involved here). What this is good for
is left to each individual's own sick imagination. 

 (BTW any _real_ scientists on the list, don't crucify me for this. I
know very well G-Waves are a subject of heated debate in the real world.)

- -------------
Eppu Tuominen
eptitu@utu.fi
- -------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 00:43:41 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Density (gearheads alert)

- ----------
> From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: Density (gearheads alert)
> Date: Wednesday, 25 November 1998 23:45
> 
> At 05:01 PM 11/25/98 +1300, you wrote:
> >Hi there all,
> >
> >I'm a long time lurker, first time writer (well at least for a long time
> >anyway) and have a question regarding densitometers. What do they
measure?

First, as a long-time Traveller player without an email account, I lurked
too.  If anyone on the list wondered why I suddenly appeared as a
loud-mouth, this is why.  I've been watching you....

> >
> >Ones first reaction would be (duh) density, but this is not a force unto
> >itself. The MT ImpEncyc (sorry but I live in the Dark Ages) states that
it

Sorry, what's this Dark Ages stuff.  If MT is the Dark Ages, I'm a
Roman....

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

Sorry, if you get this message, my email hasn't fouled up.  This is good.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 15:53:14 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Density (gearheads alert)

IMTU Densitometers (called Mass detectors) measure the tidal force of
massive objects (gravity gradient) rather than gravitic pull itself. This
is the principle behind todays gravitic sensors and has the neat effect of
making mass detectors a sensor right between active and passive ones:

Passive sensors signal drop off as 1/r^2
Mass sensor signal drop off as 1/r^3
Active sensors signal drop off as 1/r^4

What I lack is reasonable figures for resolution (based on physics) at
vaerious ranges as my players currently possess a stolen ancient ship with
a really good massdetector which they use to fight baddies from the core.
The want to know if they can get the basic layout of a ship from a certain
range.


/Anders Backman
Game developer and Lead Kibitzer at Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:48:35 -0500
From: "Clark, William" <Clark@bessemer.com>
Subject: Anyone know what this is about?

Hi all,
	Just accidentally ran across this at the Imperium Games web site.
Anyone know what this is about?

November 20, 1998 
WE ARE LIQUIDATING ALL TRAVELLER BOOKS, they're going FAST, and now is
the LAST CHANCE to buy TRAVELLER EVER!!! They won't be around much
longer. These books will soon become RARE collector's items. GET THEM
WHILE YOU CAN!!! PLACE YOUR ORDER TODAY via On-Line Ordering or sending
a check or money order to: 
Imperium Games9461 Charleville Blvd. #307Beverly Hills, CA 90212

Bill Clark
- ---
clark@bessemer.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 08:26:09 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Off-topic Question: Greek Muse of Poetry

Our Internet service has buggered again, and the library has been cutting
back on books in favour of the Web (stupid decision, but...)

Can anyone email me privately the names of teh Muses, especially the Muse
of poetry.

Many thanks.



PS. Any advice on how to loose the Furies on Bill Gates and the Windows NT
designers would also be appreciated.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 16:14:22 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Bays in G:T

Allen Shock writes:
>>>From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
>> 
>>>Nope, it isn't a typo. David Pulver said he designed them that way
>>>intentionally, seeing the bay more as a big turret with crew inside it
>>>(kinda like a cupola, I thought.) The 20 spaces inside the ship are
>>>basically for the support machinery and "rotation space".
>> 
>>No, it's a typo.
> 
>I'm sorry, but I happen to know it is not a typo. I vey clearly remember a
>post David Pulver made on the subject.

He (or someone else) has changed his mind about that, then. The G:T errata
states that a bay has 50 internal spaces.
  

      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 07:16:26 -0800
From: "Dave Strebe" <strebe@intergate.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Anyone know what this is about?

<Lurk mode off>
Considering that they took my money and still owe me two books from over a
year ago
I WOULDN"T ORDER ANTHING FROM THEM!!!. Sorry for shouting. If you can get
them
to send the product C.O.D. that would be the way to go. Be very careful in
dealing with them
Of course this is only my opinion.
<Lurk mode on>

Dave
- -----Original Message-----
From: Clark, William <Clark@bessemer.com>
To: 'Traveller Mailing List' <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 6:58 AM
Subject: Anyone know what this is about?


>Hi all,
> Just accidentally ran across this at the Imperium Games web site.
>Anyone know what this is about?
>
>November 20, 1998
>WE ARE LIQUIDATING ALL TRAVELLER BOOKS, they're going FAST, and now is
>the LAST CHANCE to buy TRAVELLER EVER!!! They won't be around much
>longer. These books will soon become RARE collector's items. GET THEM
>WHILE YOU CAN!!! PLACE YOUR ORDER TODAY via On-Line Ordering or sending
>a check or money order to:
>Imperium Games9461 Charleville Blvd. #307Beverly Hills, CA 90212
>
>Bill Clark
>---
>clark@bessemer.com
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 16:29:30 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Zhunastu Enterprises

Thad Coons writes:

>My take [on the demise of Zhunastu Enterprises] is that Cleon himself began
>its ruin as a megacorporation. Since he expected his family to control the
>throne, he concentrated on growing the Imperium with less attention to the
>business portion of ZE. When Cleon II abdicated, ZE was partitioned between
>public and private holdings. The portion that remained in the Zhunatsu
>family lost its technological advantage and increasingly lost favored
>status as prime contractor for the Imperium.  Cleon II was no better a
>businessman than a ruler, and his absentee managers far less competent than
>Artemsus was as emperor.  Hence ZE never expanded much beyond Core sector,
>though it remained an important second-rank company during the early
>centuries of the Imperium. I'd attribute its final decline to Cleon the Mad.

That is an excellent explanation! It's going into MTU straight away. I hadn't
considered that with the abdication of Cleon II, ZE isn't the Emperor's
corporation anymore.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 10:28:49 -0500
From: Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil>
Subject: Re: Terran Languages in the 3I

Wayne Ewart wrote:
>
> 
> as for french in quebec, not so far gone as cajan, but ask any of them to
> write something. I've seen all kinds of different spelling used for the same
> words
> 
> >has resisted linguistic assimilation for even longer.  Haitian Creole
> >is, essentially, a mutated form of French.  German, OTOH, is primarily
> >found in Central European nations.  Given all that, I'd go with French
> >as more likely to survive.
> >
> 
> it will survive but it will not be the French we barely know now

Great discussions everybody.  I particularly like the distinction
between spoken language and written language, and the further
distinction of technical language (which goes towards education).  

While living in Cyprus, many friends spoke several of Greek, Turkish,
English, Armenian, French, Arabic.  All spoke English, many both Greek
and Turkish (the country was interspersed with both at that time rather
than divided).  But could they write them?  Doubtful.  English (mostly
yes as it was taught in the schools), and their native tongue (Greek or
Turk) but probably not any others.

I'd expect in the 3I that mots everyone would be bi-lingual, probably
multi-lingual.  Everyone will have their native tongue.  That might be
Anglic, but would probably be some local language or derivative of
Anglic.  I'd say that the "official" language (money language) of the 3I
is Anglic.  The "diplomatic" language of the 3I is Vilani.  In the
Terran Sphere, the diplomatic language might be a language of oriental
derivation.  Could be French, but I doubt it.  Probably something that
we don't recognize today.  Could be "Terran", in fact, probably would
be.  A close relative of Anglic.

Guess there should be a "IMTU" in there somewhere.... followed by "YMMV"
;-)

The money language is be Anglic throughout the 3I, and most sophonts you
run into would be able to "speak" it to some degree (at least around
starports).  Merchants would speak several of the major tongues,
depending on in which sectors they had operations.  Military would have
no special need to speak several, though they may have a home world
language.  Nobles would all have to learn Vilani, as well as Anglic. 
Scouts?  Well I think they would be the most well rounded linguists of
all.  First contact missions, lots of time in jump space, communications
roles, all would lead to study of languages.  I'd expect that travellers
(crew etc.) would spend some of the time in jump learning languages.  

My characters do.


Greg

The Count

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 07:51:55 -0800
From: "Dave Strebe" <strebe@intergate.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Off-topic Question: Greek Muse of Poetry

The Muses are any of nine sister goddesses, from Greek mythology, each of
whom was regarded as the protectress of a different art or science. They
were daughters of Zeus and Mnemosyne (Goddess of Memory) and they are

Calliope - muse of epic poetry (parchment roll or tablet)
Clio - muse of history (partially opened scroll)
Erato - muse of love poetry (small lyre)
Euterpe - muse of music and lyric poetry (double flute)
Melpomene - muse of tragedy (tragic mask)
Polyhymnia - muse of hymns and sacred music (veiled figure)
Terpsichore - muse of dance (lyre)
Thalia - muse of comedy (comic mask)
Urania - muse of astronomy (rod in one hand and a globe in the other)

Hope this helps.
Dave
- -----Original Message-----
From: Rob Prior <Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 6:58 AM
Subject: Off-topic Question: Greek Muse of Poetry


>Our Internet service has buggered again, and the library has been cutting
>back on books in favour of the Web (stupid decision, but...)
>
>Can anyone email me privately the names of teh Muses, especially the Muse
>of poetry.
>
>Many thanks.
>
>
>
>PS. Any advice on how to loose the Furies on Bill Gates and the Windows NT
>designers would also be appreciated.
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 16:52:44 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Jump-6 courier networks

Gary (TravelrTNE@aol.com) writes:

>>>>... the TAS newsbriefs that tells of the newfangled drop tanks
>>>>also mention that plans were being made to upgrade the X-boat network to
>>>>jump-6, at least along the major links, using drop tanks.
>>>
>>>It wouldn't be a real Jump 6 network.  It would still take at least two
>>jumps (and therefore double duration).
>> 
>> I don't quite follow you. Some nodes lies exactly four parsecs apart and
> 
>Yes, the J4/drop tank Xboats get 6 parsec range but the J6 couriers (TJ and
>naval) would still have an advantage in time, so i don't think having a
>J4/drop-tank growing xboat network would be disagreeable to keeping the J4
>Xboats as a control system.

Ah, I see! No, you misunderstood me. If you don't need to put the fuel inside
the hull, you can make a jump-6 100 T ship with the Book 2 rules. So the way
I read the newsbrief, the Imperium was looking into building true jump-6
X-boats, externally the same as the other X-boats, but with drop tanks to
provide the 60% of fuel from the outside.

>>No, that's right. But that begs the question. If the Imperial Bureaucracy
>>uses the X-boat network, why is the X-boats not optimized? That's sort of
>>like hamstringing THEMSELVES. If the X-boats are purely civilian traffic,
>>you could justify the IB screwing with it to get that precious advantage
>>(maybe), but then there would be an official IB network too, wouldn't there?
>>Either that or they use the IN network, which comes to the same thing.
> 
>Seriously, the X-boat system in 1100 (if not for the previous century) is a
>control system. It's desirable for the Emperor to be able to have an
>information advantage over his subordinate nobles *and* over the bureacracy,
>as well (keeps them from coordinating a junta or coup).

But it's a control system that IMO dosen't work. His subordinate nobles are
precisely the people who would have the means to set up alternate systems of
their own. And even if they don't, what are the odds that with 15 rival
systems, most powerful nobles will be able to buy what he wants from one of
them. Worse than that, the control system makes the problem of governing
the Imperium a lot worse. Again I'd like to point out that we're told that
the Imperium is groaning under the strain of the communication lag. 

>I'm sure Arballatra might have agreed, after the First Civil War.  Otherwise,
>wouldn't the Xboat system have started as a J5 system instead of J4?

At the time the X-boat system was begun (and IIRC also when it was finished),
jump-4 was the best available.

>>Having 2% of the stock in a company is not the same as controlling it.
> 
>No, but the Emperor could (and would IMO) most likely know (or find out) what
>any of the Megacorps are up to, at any time.

I guess we'll just have to disagree here. The examples of subordinates doing
things that their superiors didn't know they were doing are legio.

>>>Could the Imperium outlaw J5 and J6 drives for non-commercial uses (w/o
>>>special permission/permit, etc) w/o violating canon?
>> 
>> I'd say that depends on how controlling you think the canon makes the
>> Imperium ;-).
> 
>heh.  I don't know of any canon that would make J5 and J6 heavily regulated
>uncanonical. 

Nor do I, or I would have trotted them out. I just don't see the Imperium as
being so controlling that they'd do something that would seriously hamstring
itself for a gain that I consider dubious at best and a flawed plot device
at worst.
 
>The megacorps wouldn't be their stooges or toadies.  That's not what i'm
>implying.   

But if they are not, the concept of keeping an information advantage over the
powerful people in the Imperium is difficult to accept.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:03:33 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Jump-6 courier network

David P. Summers writes:

>[List of why the X-boat network is J-4]
>- - The Imperium just doesn't want to shell out the bucks for jump-6.

Why not? We're told that the Imperium is straining under the long
communication times between the core and the borders. This is supposed
to be a big problem. So why not relieve that strain. Especially since
a jump-6 backbone with jump-1 to jump-4 feeder lines wouldn't be all that
much more expensive than a pure jump-4 network.

Not to mention that the Imperium DO shell out the bucks for jump-6. It is
canonical that the Imperial Navy have jump-6 couriers. Why not use them,
at least for official business?

Keven R. Pittsinger writes:

>I was under the impression that it was J4 because most of the bases and 
>centers it connected were J4 or less.

Quite right. And that is a good reason why most of the X-boat network is
still jump-4. But it dosen't explain why, at the very least, the routes
between sector capitals haven't been updated. And there are places in the
net where one jump-6 link can replace two jump-3 links.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 11:03:29 -0500
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com>
Subject: Re: Languages in Traveller

steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com> wrote:
> This seems to be based _solely_ on population.
> Thats where it fails.  It is completely erroneous to
> assume that all in the UK and US speak English as their
> native language.

There's a better web page that someone has put up (that I can't find at
the moment). It calculates language importance by calculating a product
of the number of speakers of a language times their contribution to
their national GNP. I think it works something like this - take Canada's
GNP, divide by total population, multiply by the number of people that
speak English (be it their primary, secondary, tertiary, etc language).
Repeat for every country & language in the world. Don't ask me how
accurate the numbers were.

The numbers there boiled down to two major winners: English and
Japanese. First of all, the countries where English and Japanese are
spoken as the primary language are pretty much the richest countries in
the world, based on GNP (USA & Japan). Second of all, there a lots and
lots of people (nearly the entire population of the Earth) who speak
either English or Japanese as a second/third/whatever language. The
trend tends to be self-reinforcing, causing more and more people to pick
up one of these two languages. For example, there are so many languages
in India that many government transaction take place in English (good
ol' English colonialism plays no small part in this either). Lots of
Asian people learn Japanese as a second language because there's a good
bet it will be spoken whereever they end up in the pacific rim.

I imagine that this wil shift as the Chinese become more affluent over
time - Mandarin is quickly becoming at least as important as Japanese in
Asian business circles (from my perspective as a white guy who lives in
Toronto :)

As for languages hanging on in odd places - sure, it happens. All my
in-laws speak German - they're from Kitchener/Waterloo, the largest
concentration of German speakers outside of Germany (apparently). K/W
has the largest German newspaper in North America, the biggest
Oktoberfest outside of Germany and my father-in-law sells a lot of VWs
(yes, he's a Volkswagen dealer) to people who come in speaking German.
While this is an interesting cultural phenomenon, it doesn't mean much
from a commercial/tourist/visitor/government standpoint. No matter how
many German speakers there are in K/W, you'll still only be able to get
government service in English and French.

[Though wouldn't it be sweet to see the federal governmment only offer
service in English & German in Quebec? bwa ha ha ha]

Anyway, to sum up a long, rambling message - Westerners have skewed
views of what languages are spoken by the most amount of people. There
will be planets, nay, dozens of planets in the Solomani Rim where each
and every inhabitant will be "brown" (for lack of a better term) and the
main language will be Hindi, Punjabi, or something like that. There
_may_ be one planet of blond, blue-eyed German speakers. [Special bonus
conclusion: guess which one is full of Aryans?]

Ethan
- --
Ethan Henry                                            egh@klg.com
Java Evangelist, KL Group                       http://www.klg.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 12:14:24 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Hull Design - UN-DSN "County-Class" Strike Carrier, TL 11

High Guard Desgin for my "TNEC" Traveller game...  Biggest animal currently
in the UN Deep Space Navy's inventory.

        O/________________________________________
        o\

        County-Class Strike Carrier   Type CS
        TL 11.  1200 tons. 
        Using a 1200-ton conical hull, the County-Class Strike Carrier is
the newest tool for the projection of UN Naval power into a star system.
        It is performance-rated at jump-1, 2-G acceleration and 48EP
        Fuel tankage for 288 tons supports the power plant and 2 jump-1.
The ship is fitted with fuel scoops and a purification plant.
        Adjacent to the bridge is a computer Model/5fib computer and a
redundant Model/2fib.
        There are 61 staterooms, no standard low berths and no emergency low
berths and.
        The ship has 12 turrets. There are 12 beam lasers mounted in 4
turrets organized in 2 batteries.  There are 8 plasma guns mounted in 4
turrets organized in 2 batteries.  There are 12 missile racks mounted in 4
turrets organized into 1 battery.  For defense it has 12 sand-casters
mounted in 4 turrets organized into 2 batteries and an agility of 1.  There
is a 40-ton magazine and are 20% of missiles normally carried are nuclear
weapons.
        There are 30 ship's vehicles.  The ship carries three squadrons of
Typhoon-class "Standard-III" multi-role fighters.  Two squadrons of Typhoons
are armed with single pulse lasers, while the third is armed with triple
missile racks.
        Cargo capacity is 0 tons.
        The hull is fully streamlined.
        There are 1.9 tons of waste space.
        The County-Class Strike Carrier requires a crew of 80.  10 Command
section, 2 Engineers, 7 Gunners and 61 Flight section are required.
        The fighter crews operates the fighter compliment.
        The ship costs MCr709.20, including architects fees and takes 48
months to build.  The first was built in 2097, with a production run of 24
of these ships scheduled between 2097 and 2105.  The lead ship was the
UN-DSN Dover, and has been assigned to the Spinward areas of the established
Terran Sphere.

        O/________________________________________
        o\
SHIP DESIGN WORKSHEET				1.  Date of Preparation		
				2097		
2.  Ship name			3.  Ship Type			4.  Tech Level
UN-DSN Dover			County-Class Strike Carrier	11.00 

5.  Hull	Remarks		Tons		MCr		EP	Crew	Factor
Hull		1200		 		120.00 				A
Configuration	Cone		 		 12.00 				2
Armor		 		-   	 	-   				0
Waste Space						
	Subtotals	 	-   	 	132.00 			

6.  Drives	Remarks		Tons		MCr		EP	Crew	Factor
Jump Drive		 	24.00 	 	96.00 			0.2	1
Maneuver		 	60.00 	 	67.20 			0.6	2
Power Plant		 	144.00 	       432.00 	 	48.00 	1.4	4
Jump Fuel	1jp1	 	120.00 				
Power Plant Fuel		 48.00 				
Excess Fuel	+1jp1	 	120.00 				
Special Tanks						
Purification		 	 10.08 	 	 0.05 			
Fuel Scoops					 1.2			
	Subtotals	 	526.08 	       596.45 	 	48.00 	2.00 	

7.  Controls	Remarks		Tons		MCr		EP	Crew	Factor
Bridge		 		24.00 	 	 0.12 			10	
Aux Bridge						
Computer	12/25	 	10.00		68.00		 3.00 		E
Aux Computer	3/6	 	 4.00 	 	14.00 	 	-   		B
	Subtotals	 	38.00 	 	82.12 	 	 3.00 	10	

8.  Weaponry	Remarks		Tons		MCr		EP	Crew	Factor
Major Weapon					0	
Bay Repulsor						
Bay Energy						
Bay Particle						
Bay Meson						
Bay Missiles						
Turret Sand	2 batt	 	 4.00 	 	 3.00 		 	 2	 5.00 
Turret Lasers	2 batt	 	 4.00 	 	12.00 	 	12.00 	 2	 4.00 
Turret Energy	2 batt		 8.00 	 	12.00 	 	24.00 	 2	 3.00 
Turret Particle						
Turret Missiles	1 batt		 4.00 	 	 9.00 		 	 1	 4.00 
Barbette Particle						
	Subtotals	 	20.00 	 	36.00 	 	36.00 	 7	

9.  Screens	Remarks		Tons		MCr		EP	Crew	Factor
Meson Screen		 	-   	 	-   	 	-   	0	0
Nuclear Damper		 	-   	 	-   	 	-   	0	0
Force Field		 	-   	 	-   			0	0
Deflector Screen						0	
	Subtotals	 	-   	 	-   	 	-   	0	

11.  Facilities	Remarks		Tons		MCr			Crew	
Small Craft Hangars		330.00 	 	0.66 			61	
Big Craft Hangars			 	-   			
Launch Facilities						
Launch Tubes			 		-   		0	
Vehicles						
	Subtotals	 	330.00 	 	0.66 			61	

Crew Lists			Officers	Crew			
Command Section			7		3			
Engineering			1		1			
Gunnery				3		4			
Flight Section			31		30			
Ship's Troops						
Service Crew						
Passengers						
	Subtotals		42		38			

12.  Quarters			Tons		MCr		Crew	
Single Staterooms	 42 	 168.00 	21.00 		42	
Double Staterooms	 19 	  76.00 	 9.50 		38	
Low Berths		 	-   	 	-   		0	
Emergency Low		 	-   	 	-   		0	
	Subtotals	 	244.00 	 	30.50 		80	

13.  Cargo	Remarks		Tons				
Cargo	Potential : 1.9 tons					
Mail						
Magazine	400 Missiles	40.00 				
		 		40.00 				

14.  Totals	Remarks		Tons		MCr		EP	Crew	
Hull				  0.00	 	132.00 		0	
Drives				526.08	 	596.45 	 	48.00 	2	
Controls			 38.00	 	 82.12 	 	(3.00)	10	
Weapons				 20.00	 	 36.00 	       (36.00)	7	
Screens				  0.00	 	-   	 	-   	0	
Facilities			330.00	 	  0.66 			61	
Quarters			244.00	 	 30.50 		0	
Cargo				 40.00				
	Subtotals	       1198.08		877.73		9.0	80	
Architect's Fees		  8.78			
Discounts		       -177.30						Agility
Totals			       1198.08		709.20		9.0	80	0.8

15.  Notes						
Carries 30 Typhoon "Standard-III" Fighters

        O/________________________________________
        o\
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1193
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, November 25 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1194



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Jump-6 courier networks
Re: Anyone know what this is about?
Re: Anyone know what this is about?
Re: Languages in Traveller
Re: Languages in Traveller
Re: Languages in Traveller
Re: Starship Economics/  Broken Frieght Rates
Re: Anyone know what this is about?
Re: Languages...
World Name Origins (was re: Languages in Traveller)
Bays
three-axis spin (return of the foal of the dead horse...)
Re: Density (gearheads alert)
Website update
Re: Jump-6 courier networks
Re: Mass combat system for Traveller
Re: mostly G:T
Re: Hull Design - UN-DSN "County-Class" Strike Carrier, TL 11
Re: Languages in Traveller
Re: Off-topic Question: Greek Muse of Poetry
Re: Languages in Traveller
Languages in Traveller

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:12:26 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Jump-6 courier networks

SD Mooney writes:

>IMO the Imperium deliberately maintains the network (which is Civilian) at
>J4. The Imperial Navy has a courier system at j6 for urgent messages. I
>suspect pressure would be brought against any party trying to expand the
>network to a higher jump rating,

Fair enough. That explains the X-boats. IMTU it is the X-boat manufacturers'
lobby that excerts the pressure, but it could be the Imperium itself for all
I care. What I can't understand is that if an alternative  --  like the navy
couriers  --  exists, why don't the Imperial bureaucracy use that for official
messages?

>I would conclude (from MT material ) that the Imperium controls information
>as in your second conclusion, especially as the construction of a J6
>network would require more Waystations to be built (and TL15 facilities to
>maintain them?)

A properly designed jump-6 network would propably be cheaper than the
present network. It certainly would be a lot more efficient. 




      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 08:50:55 -0800
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Re: Anyone know what this is about?

I thought they were unable to sell any Traveller items since their license
with Marc expired?

douglas

E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas
IMTU: tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls
The early bird gets the worm, BUT
   the second mouse gets the cheese!

- -----Original Message-----
From: Clark, William <Clark@bessemer.com>
To: 'Traveller Mailing List' <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 7:06 AM
Subject: Anyone know what this is about?


>Hi all,
> Just accidentally ran across this at the Imperium Games web site.
>Anyone know what this is about?
>
>November 20, 1998
>WE ARE LIQUIDATING ALL TRAVELLER BOOKS, they're going FAST, and now is
>the LAST CHANCE to buy TRAVELLER EVER!!! They won't be around much
>longer. These books will soon become RARE collector's items. GET THEM
>WHILE YOU CAN!!! PLACE YOUR ORDER TODAY via On-Line Ordering or sending
>a check or money order to:
>Imperium Games9461 Charleville Blvd. #307Beverly Hills, CA 90212
>
>Bill Clark
>---
>clark@bessemer.com
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 11:59:21 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Anyone know what this is about?

"Clark, William" wrote:

> Hi all,
>         Just accidentally ran across this at the Imperium Games web site.
> Anyone know what this is about?
>
> November 20, 1998
> WE ARE LIQUIDATING ALL TRAVELLER BOOKS, they're going FAST, and now is
> the LAST CHANCE to buy TRAVELLER EVER!!! They won't be around much
> longer. These books will soon become RARE collector's items. GET THEM
> WHILE YOU CAN!!! PLACE YOUR ORDER TODAY via On-Line Ordering or sending
> a check or money order to:
> Imperium Games9461 Charleville Blvd. #307Beverly Hills, CA 90212

Oh, man.  Time to see how muh cash I can spare.
Even though IG has screwed a lot of people, several of the books
particularly Pocket Empires, Imperial Squadrons, Alien Archive,
Psionic Institutes and Milieu 0 are good products.

And after hearing the horror stories from when they closed down
GDW, I just couldn't bear it if IG disposed of the material.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 12:08:27 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Languages in Traveller

Ethan Henry wrote:

> Anyway, to sum up a long, rambling message - Westerners have skewed
> views of what languages are spoken by the most amount of people. There
> will be planets, nay, dozens of planets in the Solomani Rim where each
> and every inhabitant will be "brown" (for lack of a better term) and the
> main language will be Hindi, Punjabi, or something like that.

I don't know much about the languages of the Asian subcontinent,
but I wonder, given the length of some words and the nature of
the syllables (there is a moe accurate word for that which escapes
me at the moment - moneme?), how similar would some of these
languages be to Vilani?  IMO, they seem closer than Romance and
other Western languages, such as German and English.


> There
> _may_ be one planet of blond, blue-eyed German speakers. [Special bonus
> conclusion: guess which one is full of Aryans?]

Well, answering "both" wouldn't be wrong.  But if you're speaking
about the original Aryans, I don't think anyone on this list will miss
that question, i.e., Aryans are from the Asian subcontinent.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 03:17:33 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Languages in Traveller

Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com> wrote:
 
> There's a better web page that someone has put up (that I can't find at
> the moment). It calculates language importance by calculating a product
> of the number of speakers of a language times their contribution to
> their national GNP. I think it works something like this - take Canada's
> GNP, divide by total population, multiply by the number of people that
> speak English (be it their primary, secondary, tertiary, etc language).
> Repeat for every country & language in the world. Don't ask me how
> accurate the numbers were.
>

But does this reflect the languages that would be used on colony worlds in
a hundred/3 thousand years time?  It would in the short term, of course. 
If a jump drive were invented tomorrow, it's a safe bet that the first
"Terran" colonies would be established by the "best and brightest" (most
loyal and brainwashed) citizens of the USA.  This would only be broken down
by time.
 
> The numbers there boiled down to two major winners: English and
> Japanese. First of all, the countries where English and Japanese are
> spoken as the primary language are pretty much the richest countries in
> the world, based on GNP (USA & Japan). Second of all, there a lots and
> lots of people (nearly the entire population of the Earth) who speak
> either English or Japanese as a second/third/whatever language. The
> trend tends to be self-reinforcing, causing more and more people to pick
> up one of these two languages. For example, there are so many languages
> in India that many government transaction take place in English (good
> ol' English colonialism plays no small part in this either). Lots of
> Asian people learn Japanese as a second language because there's a good
> bet it will be spoken whereever they end up in the pacific rim.
> 
> I imagine that this wil shift as the Chinese become more affluent over
> time - Mandarin is quickly becoming at least as important as Japanese in
> Asian business circles (from my perspective as a white guy who lives in
> Toronto :)
> 
Actually, my "problem" with putting Indonesia/Indonesian squarely into the
future history comes partly from this.  It's a case of attaching my country
(Australia) to a suitable rising trade partner who won't overshadow the
identity with which most of my players would identify.  I've written about
PNG, which is a country where English is the language in which government
business is carried out, but have fudged the issue, IMTU, by attaching it
to Australia.  If any Papua New Guineans are on the list, I hereby,
publicly and officially apologise.

Actually, if I was working in a perfect world, I would attach Australia to
Japan (it's present day largest trade partner), or perhaps to China (a
rising power).  The main reason why I don't is that I don't speak either
language, and would foul up anything I tried to name.  As a result, I've
built an Australian  colonial empire, which is objectionable on several
points, but at least is phrased in terms of the most progressive and
democratic elements of the countries of South-East Asia voluntarily allying
to Australia. 
 
> Anyway, to sum up a long, rambling message - Westerners have skewed
> views of what languages are spoken by the most amount of people. There
> will be planets, nay, dozens of planets in the Solomani Rim where each
> and every inhabitant will be "brown" (for lack of a better term) and the
> main language will be Hindi, Punjabi, or something like that. There
> _may_ be one planet of blond, blue-eyed German speakers. [Special bonus
> conclusion: guess which one is full of Aryans?]

Duh.  The one full of Iranians.

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 03:23:44 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Languages in Traveller

Hi!
It's late.
About the French and German thing:

OK:  What are the criteria for language survival?
Does the use of a language by a high population world count?

It's possible that the original "native" languages of the Hi-Pop worlds
could have
died out, but, if such a world existed, isn't it likely that their language
is still around somewhere?

My guess leans towards these languages surviving.

The original Solomani Rim supplement gives lots of world names.  Some of
these are indicators of who settled them, originally.  Basically, if it can
be demonstrated that a particular world name in the Sollie Rim is derived
from a particular language, and no others, then it was probably settled by
people who spoke that language.  If it is a high pop world, the original
language still survives...

This is not a fool-proof algorithm, but it will give us a clue. 

Umm.  This doesn't quite make sense, but it's about 3am, so I demand to be
excused!

There is some kind of rational point in here.

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:56:27 -0700
From: "Joseph Kimball" <HPJKimba@ihc.com>
Subject: Re: Starship Economics/  Broken Frieght Rates

>>>>
        RealWorld(tm), as of this afternoon with a rates war on in Halifax,
Halifax to Antwerp,	2TFU (40' container) is 10 days and $1100USD, *at most*.
That is on a G3 cargo ship.  Two new shipping firms just opened shop locally
and are cutting everyone's throats to get containers.
        Interesting paralell, neh?
>>>>
The 2TFU container is approximately equal to a 4 displacement ton container in Traveller according to conversion calculations I just made:  (40ft)(1ft/12in)(39in/1m)(1.5m/CT deck plan square)(2 CT d.p.s./disp.ton)=4.1 rounded to 4.   The length, height, and width of a 2TFU container are not metric, and are not designed with CT displacement tonnage in mind, but the conversion is close enough that comparing RealWorld(tm) container traffic to Traveller container traffic is not especially stretching to my "suspension of disbelief" capabilities.
- - Joseph

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:45:58 +0100
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <greimann@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: Anyone know what this is about?

>>Hi all,
>> Just accidentally ran across this at the Imperium Games web site.
>>Anyone know what this is about?
>>
>>November 20, 1998
>>WE ARE LIQUIDATING ALL TRAVELLER BOOKS, they're going FAST, and now is
>>the LAST CHANCE to buy TRAVELLER EVER!!! They won't be around much
>>longer. These books will soon become RARE collector's items. GET THEM
>>WHILE YOU CAN!!! PLACE YOUR ORDER TODAY via On-Line Ordering or sending
>>a check or money order to:
>>Imperium Games9461 Charleville Blvd. #307Beverly Hills, CA 90212
Does MM know about this. Last i heard they were forbidden to sell
any more product because of the license problems.

One question though, are some of the latter books (after TLWH) worth buying?
I never saw them here in Germany, so maybe this is the last chance to get
any stock on the 
European mainland...

Volker
- ---
Volker A. Greimann, greimann@geocities.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:16:36 -0500
From: Brandon Quina <lore@tmgbbs.com>
Subject: Re: Languages...

> > Here are my views on languages.  There abit diffrent from the ones
> > described by mostly everybody else.  I've tried to include both the
> > name of the language, its origins, its common users, how common it
> > is, and possibly afew short words.  (NOTE:  The names are somewhat
> > changed for the same reason its 'Anglic' as opposed to 'English')

> > VILANI LANGUAGES
> Reading Vilani&Vargr p15 you see that in ancient times was one
> language.  This evolved in many dialects and languages, but before the
> > VARGR LANGUAGES
> The principal Vargr Languages are Gvegh (used in the Zhodani
> Marches),Logaksu(in Lair),Aekhu (in Deneb), Gvegh-Aekhu(overlap in
> gvurrdon), Urzaeng(Coreward Windhorn), Ovaghoun(Provence,Windhorn, and
> Meshan), Suedzuk(Vargr Enclaves), Irilitok(Julian).


	You'll note above that it says this is my view of languages, and
thus i'm not trying to pass this off as canonical.  Similarly, what the
game books say isn't really going to change my mind about my views;
no culture, except perhaps the Dryone, should have only one language.
The Vilani adapted that way, conciously, in my view;  they didn't start
off with only one language.

Anyways, thank you for the names of the Vargr languages.  That will
help me give names to afew of the many many Vargr 'tounges' in existance
in MTU.  ::smiles::


TTFN,
Brandon

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:19:23 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: World Name Origins (was re: Languages in Traveller)

Alan Bradley wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The original Solomani Rim supplement gives lots of world names.  Some of
these are indicators of who settled them, originally.  Basically, if it can
be demonstrated that a particular world name in the Sollie Rim is derived
from a particular language, and no others, then it was probably settled by
people who spoke that language.  If it is a high pop world, the original
language still survives...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Worlds are often named by whomever discovered or first surveyed them,
which may happen long before anyone colonizes them - and the colonists
may not change the name. Many colonists do change the name
(i.e., Garda-Vilis (1118 Vilis/Spinward Marches) was once Tanoose),
but IMO just as many would leave all but the most annoying names alone.

In the Terran sphere, many worlds will have been named by the UN space
administration, the Terran navy, or any one of the Terran government 
bureaus that handled colonization projects.  Aristotle 
(1740 Gemini/Solomani Rim) wasn't necessarily settled by greeks,
philosophers, or academicians - that was the name on the star charts
when the colonization project began, that's the name on all the
colonization project paperwork and shipping manifests, that's what
the colonists called it for months (years?) before they even saw the
place, that's the name that stuck.

Walt Smith

- ----------
If God is in the details, the Devil is in the assumptions.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:19:36 -0500
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: Bays

> >>>Nope, it isn't a typo. David Pulver said he designed them that way
> >>>intentionally, seeing the bay more as a big turret with crew inside it
> >>>(kinda like a cupola, I thought.) The 20 spaces inside the ship are
> >>>basically for the support machinery and "rotation space".
> >> 
> >>No, it's a typo.
> > 
> >I'm sorry, but I happen to know it is not a typo. I vey clearly remember
a
> >post David Pulver made on the subject.
> 
> He (or someone else) has changed his mind about that, then. The G:T
errata
> states that a bay has 50 internal spaces.

"P. 151. 

In the Turret and Bay Tables, change the last two headings to ``Cost
(MCr)'' and ``Internal Spaces''. A Bay has 50 Internal Spaces. " (from the
GURPS Traveller Errata)

Well, I guess that settles that, then :) This is good actually, although it
will require me to change a couple of designs :)

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:39:41 -0500
From: ringrose@ascent.com
Subject: three-axis spin (return of the foal of the dead horse...)

  Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 22:29:53 PST
  From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
  Subject: Re: From the Friday night game

  BTW, you can't really get a "3-axis spin" on a dead ship. You'll get a
  single axis, which may shift as cargo shifts, and possibly some
  precession (ie the axis will wander a bit, possibly periodically).

Common misconception.

Yes you can.
Any object with three different moments of inertia will do really
funky things when rotating around the middle moment of inertia.

Take a book rubber-banded closed, or a videotape, toss it in the air
spinning about its middle moment of inertia.  If the spine begins on
the left side, it'll sometimes flip to the other (depends on how high
you toss the object and how rapidly it rotates).

In zero-G, it will continue flipping from side to side as it spins.
Guaranteed to transfer some rotational energy into loose objects, but
as long as it is rotating about that middle axis it will keep being
annoying.

	- Robert Ringrose
	  ringrose@ascent.com

More specific instructions:

Take a book with three different dimensions.  Hold the book flat, like
it would be if it were face up on a table, with the spine in your left
hand and the other side in your right hand.  Toss it in the air,
spinning so that the top of the page comes toward you.  Catch it
again.  Look at where the book's spine is.

If there were only one axis, or precession, you would expect the spine
to come down in your left hand.  If you're throwing it high enough
(and it doesn't have to be very high) and rotating it fast enough
(doesn't have to be very fast) as it spins top-to-bottom it will
occasionally flip left-to-right.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 12:22:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Density (gearheads alert)

Anders Backman writes:

> What I lack is reasonable figures for resolution (based on physics) at
> vaerious ranges as my players currently possess a stolen ancient ship with
> a really good massdetector which they use to fight baddies from the core.
> The want to know if they can get the basic layout of a ship from a certain
> range.

Realistically?  Can't be done.  There are significantly different object shapes
which generate identical patterns -- for a simple example, solid and hollow
spheres have identical gravitational fields (and in turn identical to a
point-like object), regardless of size, as long as you aren't actually inside
of the object.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:28:27 CST
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@itds.com>
Subject: Website update

I've updated my website at http://www.prairienet.org/~dmckinne/trav.html,
in preparation for posting the 1.98 draft of the new timeline... :)

Comments are always welcome!


DonM.
- --
==========================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist             dmckinne@itds.com =
= International Telecommunications Data Systems           (217) 239-8365 =
= 2109 Fox Drive, Champaign, IL                           (217) 351-8250 =
= Winter War XXVI Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 5-7, 1999 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org     (217) 469-9917 = 
==========================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 12:37:02 -0800
From: James Brewer <jwbrewer@ucsd.edu>
Subject: Re: Jump-6 courier networks

- --=====================_7930804==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

In MegaTraveller supplement source material explains that normal citizens and
smaller corporations are limited to the X-boat system.  The Imperium and many
megacorps use jump-6 couriers to carry their information thus giving a
substantial advantage to them, ie Norris using the delay to declare himself
Archduke before the X-boat network spreads the news of the death of the death
of the Emperor generally.  The TNS also shows this on Terra where the military
starts taking defensive measures before the news reaches the Confederation. 
The American government did this for some time with the GPS system and allowed
full accuracy to civilian use only after technology allowed more accurate use
by comparing the signals from a number of GPS satellites.

Gary (TravelrTNE@aol.com) writes:

>>>>... the TAS newsbriefs that tells of the newfangled drop tanks
>>>>also mention that plans were being made to upgrade the X-boat network to
>>>>jump-6, at least along the major links, using drop tanks.
... 
>Seriously, the X-boat system in 1100 (if not for the previous century) is a
>control system. It's desirable for the Emperor to be able to have an
>information advantage over his subordinate nobles *and* over the bureacracy,
>as well (keeps them from coordinating a junta or coup).

Jim Brewer
- --=====================_7930804==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
In MegaTraveller supplement source material explains that normal citizens
and smaller corporations are limited to the X-boat system.&nbsp; The
Imperium and many megacorps use jump-6 couriers to carry their
information thus giving a substantial advantage to them, ie Norris using
the delay to declare himself Archduke before the X-boat network spreads
the news of the death of the death of the Emperor generally.&nbsp; The
TNS also shows this on Terra where the military starts taking defensive
measures before the news reaches the Confederation.&nbsp; The American
government did this for some time with the GPS system and allowed full
accuracy to civilian use only after technology allowed more accurate use
by comparing the signals from a number of GPS satellites.<br>
<br>
Gary (TravelrTNE@aol.com) writes:<br>
<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;... the TAS newsbriefs that tells of the newfangled drop
tanks<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;also mention that plans were being made to upgrade the
X-boat network to<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;jump-6, at least along the major links, using drop
tanks.<br>
<b>... <br>
</b>&gt;Seriously, the X-boat system in 1100 (if not for the previous
century) is a<br>
&gt;control system. It's desirable for the Emperor to be able to have
an<br>
&gt;information advantage over his subordinate nobles *and* over the
bureacracy,<br>
&gt;as well (keeps them from coordinating a junta or coup).<br>
<br>
Jim Brewer</html>

- --=====================_7930804==_.ALT--

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 15:55:07 EST
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Mass combat system for Traveller

In a message dated 11/24/98 17:23:17 PM Pacific Standard Time,
shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca writes:

<< 
   I just found the original worksheets for the Striker (I) micro-armour
 stats to a bunch of 20th C. based designs. Not terribly relevant to most
 PC's though (at least so they hope). >>

	Could you post these to the list?

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 12:53:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: mostly G:T

Ian or Katts writes:
> 
> Smaller ships can and have competed with bigger ones on the same route,
> *provided* they are prepared to load, up and go immediatly. None of this
> one week stuffing around waiting for a cargo ... when the cargo shows up,
> you *go*.

The problem is that typically this capability is limited to _big_ ships (more
accurately, it's limited to interstellar corporations) -- in order to
practically do this 'load and go immediately' you need to have cargo factors
already insystem, who prepare cargo for you before you arrive, and know with a
high degree of certainty _when_ you'll arrive.  In addition, the cost per ton
of transported material is flat-out lower for larger ships.
> 
> Now, according to p119 of G:T it takes 18 minutes to escape Earth's
> gravitational field at 2 gees, so I'd say that a one hour round trip is
> reasonable.

Nah, it's more like two hours due to intercept issues (you need to be there at
the right time).
> 
> I am perfectly happy with the level of streamlining on a modern surface
> ship (ie it's a cow ... dont expect to play with grav fighters in the
> atmosphere) being available, just as long as it costs less than 20% of the
> volume of the ship.

That level of streamlining is free (i.e. true by default).  However, such a
ship will disintegrate if it attempts to do gas-giant skimming (traveller rules
notwithstanding, that's harder than atmospheric entry) unless it has enough
manuever capability to handle the surface gravity of a gas giant (usually 2-3).

> The other consideration is that armour doesnt need crew.
That manuever drive does.  3 sandcasters need 1 crew.  60 spaces of maneuver
drive (for the armor replaced by the sandcaster) need one crew.
> 
> The Decafreighter massed a lot to start with, so it only pulled 0.6 gees.
Hm.  Note that in that case the ship _cannot_ enter atmosphere.  If you allow
ships under a G, this gives a serious edge to unstreamlined ships.
> 
> Lots of light fighters are a viable method of conducting piracy ... but at
> the end of the day, it's a design decision. If purchasers want a 10kt
> heavily-armoured ship, they buy a FS Decafreighter. If they want a 10kt
> ship with lots of sandcasters, they buy something else.

Mostly they'll buy something else, because fighting is in fact a low priority
for most merchants, and damn few pirates are going to go after something in the
multi-kiloton range anyway, 20 turrets probably outguns any likely pirates.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 09:38:02 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Hull Design - UN-DSN "County-Class" Strike Carrier, TL 11

At 12:14 25/11/98 -0400, Michel Vaillancourt wrote:

>        The ship has 12 turrets. There are 12 beam lasers mounted in 4
>turrets organized in 2 batteries.  There are 8 plasma guns mounted in 4
>turrets organized in 2 batteries.  There are 12 missile racks mounted in 4
>turrets organized into 1 battery.  For defense it has 12 sand-casters
>mounted in 4 turrets organized into 2 batteries and an agility of 1.  

Excuse me but doesn't 4 laser turrets plus 4 plasma turrets plus 4 missile
turrets plus 4 sandcaster turrets equal 16, not 12?

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 09:35:03 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Languages in Traveller

At 11:03 25/11/98 -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:

>I imagine that this wil shift as the Chinese become more affluent over
>time - Mandarin is quickly becoming at least as important as Japanese in
>Asian business circles (from my perspective as a white guy who lives in
>Toronto :)

If importance is being based on ecomonic factors I'd say that Cantonese
would be the Chinese language that becomes common, not Mandarin. This is
based on a comment by a Chinese friend that while Mandarin might be the
official language commercial operations tend to be conducted in Cantonese,
and if our schools were to offer 'useful' languages such as Japanese rather
than 'useless' classical or traditional languages such as French and Latin
they should ignore what the Chinese government says and teach Cantonese.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 15:59:42 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Off-topic Question: Greek Muse of Poetry

I wrote:
>Can anyone email me privately the names of teh Muses, especially the Muse
>of poetry.
>
>Many thanks.
>
Got them now. Thanks to everyone who responded. 
>
>
>PS. Any advice on how to loose the Furies on Bill Gates and the Windows NT
>designers would also be appreciated.

Still waiting for this...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 16:18:46 EST
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Languages in Traveller

	I have followed the thread from the beginning, when Richard Spake posted his
thoughts on the subject.  Richard seems to be running a Traveller campaign set
up with a heavy German-oriented slant ( he has sent me numerous stuff on his
German civilization in space), so therefore I can see why he takes his
position.  However, I ran a Trav adventure that had a very American-oriented
slant...I don't believe that means that the dominant language of the galaxy is
American English.

	It seems to me that the most likely "Common" language would be that of the
dominant space- and star-faring cultures...if you extrapolate this from today
(almost 2000), then I would have to say the major language would be English in
some form (The US is the one building the space station...the Russians are
contributing a small share;  they still can't deliver there modules on time)
I am not aware of any major European assistance to the construction of the
station (I realize I could be wrong here)  NASA is the one with a planned
mission to Mars...they are also the ones w/ a planned Lunar mission/colony,
now that water is considered extremely likely to be present there.  Let's face
it:  The United States is still the only nation to have walked on the
moon...and no other country has the means or will to do it.  IMO, most if not
all future missions will be done by the US...perhaps as joint ventures with
other countries, but still using NASA's know-how and technology.

DustyLV769

------------------------------

Date: 25 Nov 1998 00:00:00 +0000
From: lars@orplid.shnet.org (Lars Becker)
Subject: Languages in Traveller

Hi Marc,

 > Geman (on the other hand) is spoken in Germany and ?

Austria and Swizerland. Also look at Paul's and Gary's Article.

- - Lars.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1194
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, November 25 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1195



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Terran Languages in the 3I
Re: Muses and County-class
re: Ship Design Question
Re: Languages in Traveller
Re: Jump-6 courier network
Re: Off-topic Question: Greek Muse of Poetry
RE: Traveller-digest 1-8
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1194
Re: Jump-6 courier networks
Re: Hull Design - UN-DSN "County-Class" Strike Carrier, TL 11
Re: Muses and County-class
Re: Terran Languages in the 3I
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1194
IG Liquidation
Re: Anyone know what this is about?
Re: IG Liquidation
High Guard mass combat resolution system (LONG)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:25:28 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Terran Languages in the 3I

Tue, 24 Nov 1998 19:45:30 -0500, "Paul Schirf" <pc@PerkWorks.com>
>Then again...
>   a space colony of Amish would be an interesting thing. ;-)

They might have a problem getting there.  There is a rule (if
I understand them correctly) against anything that requires a
man to work on the Sabath  (this is one reason they don't go
in for municipal electricity).  The could only travel to
their colony if ships didn't require any tending during jump.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 07:28:20
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Muses and County-class

>From: "Dave Strebe" <strebe@intergate.bc.ca>
>Subject: Re: Off-topic Question: Greek Muse of Poetry
>
>>PS. Any advice on how to loose the Furies on Bill Gates and the Windows NT
>>designers would also be appreciated.

Pray to Athena. She is in charge of Justice.

>From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
>Subject: Hull Design - UN-DSN "County-Class" Strike Carrier, TL 11
>
>        The ship costs MCr709.20, including architects fees and takes 48
>months to build.  The first was built in 2097, with a production run of 24
>of these ships scheduled between 2097 and 2105.  The lead ship was the
>UN-DSN Dover, and has been assigned to the Spinward areas of the established
>Terran Sphere.

OK. My long-dormant memories of High Guard are waking up.

It's Armour Factor zero, so why not make it an open frame design ? This
will save a little money, and any volume you might have committed to launch
tubes.

Ooops, there are no launch tubes. How long does the wing of 30 fighters
take to get out of the County class anyway ?

Does it have a Battlecruiser equivalent, with jump-2 and some bay weaponary ?

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:31:05 -0700
From: "Joseph Kimball" <HPJKimba@ihc.com>
Subject: re: Ship Design Question

>>>>
Bay Weapons were introduced in
High Guard, and didn't worry much about the details.
>>>>
Of course in High Guard 1st ed, there were 10 ton bays as well as 50 and 100.
- - Joseph

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 16:43:01 -0500
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com>
Subject: Re: Languages in Traveller

This is kinda drifting off topic, but hopefully it will drift away
completely soon...

Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz> wrote:
> If importance is being based on ecomonic factors I'd say that Cantonese
> would be the Chinese language that becomes common, not Mandarin. This is
> based on a comment by a Chinese friend that while Mandarin might be the
> official language commercial operations tend to be conducted in Cantonese,
> and if our schools were to offer 'useful' languages such as Japanese rather
> than 'useless' classical or traditional languages such as French and Latin
> they should ignore what the Chinese government says and teach Cantonese.

Well, it's interesting - Hong Kong, the undisputed commercial and
economic hub of China (as of last year) is primarily Cantonese speaking,
while the Chinese government's official language is Mandarin. While I
agree that Cantonese is probably more relevant right now, as it's the
language of Chinese people involved in commerce, it's not necessarily
the language of people involved in commerce in China. :) In a few years
the opening Chinese market will make Hong Kong look like what it really
it - a tiny dot on the map. At the risk of being trite, might makes
right and when it comes to might, the Chinese government has it in
spades. Mandarin will prevail, IMO. (That is, taking into account that
there are still half a dozen different dialects of Chinese and there
have been for a few thousand years, Mandarin will remain the "official"
Chinese. Not to mention that the ROC speaks Mandarin, making it the
official language of both, er, either, er, any Chinese government)

As for French and Latin being useless - well, French is hardly usless in
Canada. Unless you mean "The French". (kidding!) As for Latin, to quote
my English-as-a-Second-Langauge teaching wife, "You can't teach English
until you understand Latin". For pidgin languages like English it really
helps to have a good understanding of the base languages(s). Which is
why you have High Vilani and Low/Standard/whatever Vilani.

ObTrav: How damn big would the ancient/dead language depatment of an
Imperial university be? Way bigger than Latin and Greek I'll bet.

Ethan
- --
Ethan Henry                                            egh@klg.com
Java Evangelist, KL Group                       http://www.klg.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:52:21 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Jump-6 courier network

Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:03:33 +0100 (MET), Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
>>[List of why the X-boat network is J-4]
>>- - The Imperium just doesn't want to shell out the bucks for jump-6.

>Why not? We're told that the Imperium is straining under the long
>communication times between the core and the borders.

Are we told that the Imperium recognizes this strain?  (The Romans
didn't recognize many of the strains on their Empire).  Would a
33% increase in time be enough to make a significant difference
in this strain (compared to the costs involved)?  Is the strain
related to X-boat speeds at all?  (What method do governmental
directives, orders, etc. get sent?)

>Not to mention that the Imperium DO shell out the bucks for jump-6. It is
>canonical that the Imperial Navy have jump-6 couriers. Why not use them,
>at least for official business?

Because they have solved the problem for themselves but don't want
to spend the money that it would take to make them generally
available for all messages?

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:55:07 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Off-topic Question: Greek Muse of Poetry

Rob Prior wrote:

> >PS. Any advice on how to loose the Furies on Bill Gates and the Windows NT
> >designers would also be appreciated.
> 
> Still waiting for this...

Well, Rob, I'd wanted to avoid this, but first thing you gotta do is
find the real copy of this book, called the Necronomicron... ;-)

Of course, the _other_ way to do it is to invent reactionless thrusters,
get a lifeboat, stick it waaaay out in the Oort cloud, point the thing
at Redmond and turn the thrusters on...

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 06:13:43 +1000
From: "cjbrain" <cjbrain@bigpond.com>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest 1-8

Do you mean the Traveller Chronicle ? I have a spare copy of #7 if you do.
Please send me your address if this is the case.


Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 07:11:00 EST
From: JHorner443@aol.com
Subject: Traveller Digest 1-8

Does anyone have any duplicates/unwanted (I can only hope) of Travellers
Digest 1-8, or any idea of dealers who may have copies.

John Horner

- ------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 07:56:58
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1194

A
>From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
>Subject: Re: Anyone know what this is about?
>
>I thought they were unable to sell any Traveller items since their license
>with Marc expired?
>
>douglas

Doug, mate.

We know Imperium *spit* Games are prepared to commit wire fraud.

We know they are prepared to engage in breach of contract as their normal
mode of business.

Given this, I think Marc's notice could only be enforced by a couple of
blokes going to the IG warehouse with a shotgun.

>From: James Brewer <jwbrewer@ucsd.edu>
>Subject: Re: Jump-6 courier networks
>
>- --=====================_7930804==_.ALT
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>In MegaTraveller supplement source material explains that normal citizens and
>smaller corporations are limited to the X-boat system.  The Imperium and many
>megacorps use jump-6 couriers to carry their information thus giving a
>substantial advantage to them, ie Norris using the delay to declare himself
>Archduke before the X-boat network spreads the news of the death of the death
>of the Emperor generally.  

The problem is people retailing information. If you, as Sector
Vice-President of Operations for SuSAG, have access to a small, important
bit of information (say, the fact that General Shipyards just lost a big
navy contract), then it starts to get very tempting to retail it to people
who the Powers That Be have forgotten to tell it to.

Once you mesh in planetary governments, subsector nobility, naval types and
so on, then it gets a lot harder to keep secrets secret.


>From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
>Subject: Re: mostly G:T
>
>Ian or Katts writes:

>The problem is that typically this capability is limited to _big_ ships (more
>accurately, it's limited to interstellar corporations) -- in order to
>practically do this 'load and go immediately' you need to have cargo factors
>already insystem, who prepare cargo for you before you arrive, and know
with a
>high degree of certainty _when_ you'll arrive.  In addition, the cost per ton
>of transported material is flat-out lower for larger ships.

By 'load up and go' I mean the Arguvid Dancer, a 200 dton jump-2 freighter,
arrives on planet. It will take four hours to refuel and so on, once it
makes planetfall.

There is a time-sensitive cargo that is waiting, and the next scheduled
Decafreighter is leaving in 20 hours.

If the Arguvid Dancer is willing to load and go, then it may make sense to
get that single carton of spare parts onto the Arguvid Dancer, so it can
get the MCr 2-per-day factory producing again (I am reminded of the story
from the 6 Day War, when some of the Egyptian Air Staff went to Moscow just
before hostilities ... the Soviets declined to give them some critical
spare parts, which they were planning to take back in their hand luggage).
Sure, you could save about KCr 450 sending it on the Decafreighter, but on
average that would put the factory out of commission for another 12 hours,
costing you a megacredit.

>> 
>> Now, according to p119 of G:T it takes 18 minutes to escape Earth's
>> gravitational field at 2 gees, so I'd say that a one hour round trip is
>> reasonable.
>
>Nah, it's more like two hours due to intercept issues (you need to be
there at
>the right time).

Fine. It still works ... would a geostationary orbit change this ?

>That level of streamlining is free (i.e. true by default).  However, such a
>ship will disintegrate if it attempts to do gas-giant skimming (traveller
rules
>notwithstanding, that's harder than atmospheric entry) unless it has enough
>manuever capability to handle the surface gravity of a gas giant (usually
2-3).

Gas giant skimming is an issue only for exploratory traders, and captains
who do not understand that time is money.
 
It makes even less sense under G:T, now they have used the sane and
reasonable number of Cr 350 a dton for LHyd.

>> The Decafreighter massed a lot to start with, so it only pulled 0.6 gees.
>Hm.  Note that in that case the ship _cannot_ enter atmosphere.  If you allow
>ships under a G, this gives a serious edge to unstreamlined ships.

I can see absolutely no reason to disallow ships under a gee. Can someone
build me a 1 dton CG module under Gurps:Vehicles ?

>Mostly they'll buy something else, because fighting is in fact a low priority
>for most merchants, and damn few pirates are going to go after something
in the
>multi-kiloton range anyway, 20 turrets probably outguns any likely pirates.

Famile Spofulam has a small but dedicated clientele.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:11:42 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Jump-6 courier networks

In a message dated 11/25/98 7:53:45 AM Pacific Standard Time, rancke@diku.dk
writes:

<< Ah, I see! No, you misunderstood me. If you don't need to put the fuel
inside
 the hull, you can make a jump-6 100 T ship with the Book 2 rules. So the way
 I read the newsbrief, the Imperium was looking into building true jump-6
 X-boats, externally the same as the other X-boats, but with drop tanks to
 provide the 60% of fuel from the outside. >>

HG also allows you to do this. I did a quick little J6 X boat, using one 15
ton drop tank. The boat is Jump 4 without the tank, Jump 5 with the tank, and
Jump 6 (once) with the  tank dropped. It was only 105-107 MC, and 55 of this
was for the computer model 6. I saved 5 MC going to a dispersed hull, but this
can be changed easy. This is a ship that is only 50% more expensive than a
standard boat, and it can fit in the tender (with no tanks). This boat also
has a power plant so she has 4 weeks power instead of 10 days. I still used
the other X boat parameters (no manuever drive, 2 single staterooms, 1 ton of
cargo). The Jump 6 network is quite doable canonically; the puzzle is why not?
My personal spin is that Marc, Loren and Frank, et al. didn't think of Jump 6
X boats until the gearheads started screwing around with HG (remember there
were no drop tank rules in CT book 2). By then, Supplement 3 and 5FFW were
already published. Ce Le Guerre...

PS: can FF+S and FF+S2 duplicate this X boat design (I don't have them)?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:27:04 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Hull Design - UN-DSN "County-Class" Strike Carrier, TL 11

In a message dated 11/25/98 8:11:16 AM Pacific Standard Time,
misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca writes:

<< Magazine	400 Missiles	40.00 				
 		 		40.00 				 >>

I have a question. I have HG2. There are no rules for magazines (pity...).
Where did you get this data from?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:33:38 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Muses and County-class

Ian or Katts wrote:

> >From: "Dave Strebe" <strebe@intergate.bc.ca>
> >Subject: Re: Off-topic Question: Greek Muse of Poetry
> >
> >>PS. Any advice on how to loose the Furies on Bill Gates and the Windows NT
> >>designers would also be appreciated.
>
> Pray to Athena. She is in charge of Justice.
>

Yup.  The Furies (Eumenidies) are for the "real bad" crimes
(IIRC, it involved crimes against your blood):
Patricide, Matricide, Fratricide, etc.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:29:32 -0500
From: "Paul Schirf" <pc@PerkWorks.com>
Subject: Re: Terran Languages in the 3I

I Wrote: 
> a space colony of Amish would be an interesting thing. ;-)

Dave Summers Wrote:
>They might have a problem getting there. There is a rule (if
>I understand them correctly) against anything that requires a
>man to work on the Sabbath (this is one reason they don't go
>in for municipal electricity). They could only travel to
>their colony if ships didn't require any tending during jump.

Hmmm... It must have been a difficult trip from Europe to 
the American Colonies in the 1730s-1770s. Actually, the 
rules are more of an effort to keep their lives simple and 
maintain a separation from the outside world. If an 
idea or invention does not help to keep there lives 
as simple as possible it is rejected.  As the technology 
on Earth advances they may see Jump Technology 
as a means to a simpler life. There are currently 
about 134K adult Amish.  Some Amish communities
are quite wealthy, and could perhaps afford the passage 
fees involved in a colony effort better than most
non-government organizations.

After my comments from the other day my S.O. began
working on a Traveller world settled by Amish colonists.  
Eventually she'll post details on our Traveller page.

Paul Schirf
Paul@Schirf.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 15:40:38 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1194

Ian or Katts wrote:
>
> 
> Doug, mate.
> 
> We know Imperium *spit* Games are prepared to commit wire fraud.
> 
> We know they are prepared to engage in breach of contract as their normal
> mode of business.
> 
> Given this, I think Marc's notice could only be enforced by a couple of
> blokes going to the IG warehouse with a shotgun.

1 word: PGMP-13. Peace through munchkinism...

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:46:28 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: IG Liquidation

If you missed it,
http://www.imperiumgames.com/

Liquidation announced.
This is probably their attempt to satisfy creditors.

But, since there is no discount from them, yet every LGS I see
IG stuff in has it marked down 30-50%, I think I'm going to stay
away.

If they had a clue, they'd discount the stock and announce
how much they have on hand.

"Going Fast" my eye.

What do you want to be that there are virtualy no liquidation
sales and instead of discounting the stock, they chuck it all?
Really a shame for the half-dozen or so really good supplements.

BTW, who is IG's main creditor? Sweet Pea?  Anyone know
if Sweet Pea is going to get and/or retain the copyrights in the
already published and paid for stuff?  (Unpaid for stuff probably
had no transfer of copyright in the firstplace).  I could live with
the loss of the stock if I knew that someone Trav-friendly and
generous had the copyrights so that the stuff could be preserved
for future revision/re-release.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 23:05:08 GMT
From: jzeitlin@cyburban.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Re: Anyone know what this is about?

On Wed, 25 Nov 1998 11:10:48 -0500, "Dave Strebe"
<strebe@intergate.bc.ca> wrote:

><Lurk mode off>
>Considering that they took my money and still owe me two books from over a year ago
>I WOULDN"T ORDER ANTHING FROM THEM!!!. Sorry for shouting. If you can get them
>to send the product C.O.D. that would be the way to go. Be very careful in
>dealing with them
>Of course this is only my opinion.
><Lurk mode on>

>Dave
>- -----Original Message-----
>From: Clark, William <Clark@bessemer.com>
>To: 'Traveller Mailing List' <traveller@MPGN.COM>
>Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 6:58 AM
>Subject: Anyone know what this is about?

>>Hi all,
>> Just accidentally ran across this at the Imperium Games web site.
>>Anyone know what this is about?

>>November 20, 1998
>>WE ARE LIQUIDATING ALL TRAVELLER BOOKS, they're going FAST, and now is
>>the LAST CHANCE to buy TRAVELLER EVER!!! They won't be around much
>>longer. These books will soon become RARE collector's items. GET THEM
>>WHILE YOU CAN!!! PLACE YOUR ORDER TODAY via On-Line Ordering or sending
>>a check or money order to:
>>Imperium Games9461 Charleville Blvd. #307Beverly Hills, CA 90212

I seem to recall that when Marc Miller yanked IG's license, he
explicitly prohibited them from selling anything that wasn't
already in the distribution channel (or at least that's how I
understood Marc's comments from that time).  This stuff isn't and
wasn't in the distribution channel.  I'd not touch it with a
9.144m pole, given IG's poor record of handling orders - and
given that Marc's lawyers may stomp HARD on this at any moment,
unless there's explicit permission.

- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 22:53:20 +0000
From: dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com
Subject: Re: IG Liquidation

At 17:46 25/11/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>If you missed it,
>http://www.imperiumgames.com/
>
>Liquidation announced.
>This is probably their attempt to satisfy creditors.
>
>But, since there is no discount from them, yet every LGS I see
>IG stuff in has it marked down 30-50%, I think I'm going to stay
>away.

I heard that some guy went into my FLGS and purchased the entire line of IG
Traveller goods, and all the BITS items and GURPS items only a couple of
weeks ago.   

Dom
- ---

mailto:dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com  or  mailto:dominicr@bigfoot.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 16:58:52 CST
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@itds.com>
Subject: High Guard mass combat resolution system (LONG)

Last week, Rob Prior asked, in response to my questions on this, would
I see it being similar to the Mercenary abstract system.  So, my mind
immediately began working, and I've come up with this.

Note that portions are (c) 1978 by GDW/FFE, used without permission.

High Guard Abstract Resolution
(apologies to Mercenary for theft of concept)
By Donald McKinney


The abstract mission resolution system is valuable in resolving 
starship or squadron missions involving large numbers of starships
on one or both sides and in which PCs are not primary participants.

The abstract system is conducted in two parts: preparation and 
resolution.

Preparation
	Preparation consists of determining the most important
characteristics of the two opposing forces.  These characteristics
consist of mission, TL, size and efficiency.
	1.	Mission
		Roll once on the mission table below to determine 
		what mission the players' unit is on:

		1	Battle
		2	Strike
		3	Seige
		4-6	Patrol

		Roll again to determine the mission of the
		opposing unit.	

	2.	TL

		Imperial Regular Units:	TL 15.
		Zhodani Regular Units: TL 14.
		Solomani Regular Units: TL 14.

		Imperial Colonial Units: Roll a die:
			1	TL 12
			2-3	TL 13
			4-5	TL 14
			6	TL 15

		Vargr Units:  Roll a die:
			1	TL 11
			2-3	TL 12
			4-5	TL 13
			6	TL 14

	3.	Size
		Size is calculated by determining the firepower strength
		available.  For turrets, this equals their USP factor
		times the number of batteries bearing.  Bays each add
		their USP factor times batteries bearing, and then spinal
		mounts add their USP factor (10 - 27) * 100.

		So, the Unicorn CE on HG p. 50 has a firepower strength
		of 10.  The Kinunir on HG p. 52 has a FS of 18.

		The Tigress on p. 38 of Sup #9, Fighting Ships, would
		have an FS of 3362, plus 300 heavy fighters, each (from
		p. 26 of Sup #9) having an FS of 7.

		For random opposition, roll one die and consult the unit
		size table:

		1	small ship with no spinal mount/ftr squadron (10)
		2	large ship with no spinal mount/ftr squadrons (25)
		3	Auxilaries (transports/tankers) with escorts (50)
		4	Cruiser or escorts (200)
		5	Battleship/battlerider and escorts (800)
		6	Cruron or equivalent (3200)
		7	Batron or equivalent (24000)
		8 	Numbered Fleet (120000)	
		9	Named Fleet (200000)

		Apply the following cumulative DMs:
		Regular unit, +1
		Strike mission, +1
		Battle mission, +2
		
		The result on the unit size table will indicate the unit
		employed by each force. The number in parenthesis
		following the unit type is the number of combat effectives
		in the unit. This number is used for mission resolution.

		After determining size, the referee should record each
		unit's preservation level. The preservation level is 40%
		of unit strength.  For example, a Batron has a combat 
		effectiveness of 452; it will withdraw from action or 
		surrender after sustaining 181 losses.

	4.	Efficiency
		To determine a unit's efficiency, roll one die and add
		three for elite units (psionics), add two for regular 
		units and add one for all other experienced units.

Resolution
	Mission resolution is conducted in a series of combats, each
between part or all of the two opposing forces. Each such action will 
result in casualties to one or both forces. When one force suffers 
casualties equal to or exceeding its preservation level, it surrenders
or withdraws, allowing the other side to complete its mission. Each 
combat is resolved in four steps.
	1.	Element engaged
		Determine the element engaged in the combat from each
		force by rolling a six sided die and applying the
		following DMs: Battle mission, +2, not regular units,
		-2.  The result will read out as either "full",
		indicating that the entire force is engaged, or "down N",
		with "N' being the number of levels lower than the size
		of the force the committed element represents.

		1-2	down 3
		3-4	down 2
		5-6	down 1
		7+	full

		Thus, a "cruiser or escorts" which receives a "down 2"
		result commits a single large, non-spinal ship.

	2.	Encounter type
		Roll a die to determine the encounter type:

		-3	Enemy Surprised
		-2 to 1	Own Attacking
		2-5	Skirmish
		6-9	Enemy Attacking
		10+	Own Surprised

		Apply the following DMs:
		if own committed element smaller, +1
		if enemy committed element smaller, -1
		if enemy on strike mission, +1
		if own on battle mission, -2
		if enemy on battle mission, +2

		The type of encounter will have a great effect on
		the resolution of combat.
	3.	Combat Resolution
		Combat Resolution consists of rolling once on the fire
		results table to determine casualties.  In a skirmish
		or attack encounter, both sides roll once to inflict 
		casualties on the opposing force. In a surprise
		encounter the surprised side ill not fire.

		-2	no casualties
		-1 to 0	1%
		1-2	5%
		3-4	10%
		5-6	20%
		7	30%
		8	40%
		9+	50%

		A die is rolled once to determine casualties, subject
		to DMs:

		Relative size difference from unit size table,
		+to larger force, -to smaller force
		unit attacking, -2
		TL difference, +/-

		Casualties read out as percentage losses by the engaged
		element. Fractional losses of 0.5 or more round up.
		For example, the Kinunir (FS 18) receives 10% casualties,
		amounting to 1.8 FS, rounded to 2.  A turret was probably
		damaged.
	4.	Personal Casualties
		If the force a PC is in suffers 5% or greater casualties
		in combat, there is a chance the PC will be wounded,
		or worse. The personal casualty table gives the number
		on two dice which must be rolled to avoid a wound.
		If the number immediately below the specified number
		is rolled, the PC is seriously wounded and out of action.
		If any number below that is rolled, the PC has been
		wounded.

		5%	3+
		10%	4+
		20%	5+
		30%	6+
		40%	7+
		50%	8+

Using these concepts, it becomes easy to play out the events of the
FFW as layed out in the Spinward Marches Campaign book.  How that would
compare to FFW the boardgame, I don't know, as I don't own that particular
collectible.

A comparison of the abstract resolution in Mercenary to Invasion Terra
might also produce some interesting corrections to the system.

As this is derived from the abstract resolution system in Mercenary (book 4),
it should be possible to produce the "one true abstract resolution system"
that would work for both land and space warfare in Traveller.
- --
==========================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist             dmckinne@itds.com =
= International Telecommunications Data Systems           (217) 239-8365 =
= 2109 Fox Drive, Champaign, IL                           (217) 351-8250 =
= Winter War XXVI Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 5-7, 1999 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org     (217) 469-9917 = 
==========================================================================

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1195
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, November 25 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1196



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Amish in Space
Re: High Guard mass combat resolution
Re: IG Liquidation
Re: mostly G:T
Re: Jump-6 courier network
Re: IG Liquidation
Re: IG Liquidation
Re: Hull Design - UN-DSN "County-Class" Strike Carrier, TL 11
Re: GT contra-gravity module
Looking for copies of computer games
Re: What's a LEO?
Jump-6 Courier Networks
Assorted TRAVELLER Support Files (MS-Word and MS-Excel)
Re: Languages in Traveller
Re: Stellar Diameter
Re: Languages in Traveller 
Re: Density (gearheads alert)
Re: Anyone know what this is about?
Deep Meson Sites
Re: Smuggling
Average Temperature of Earth

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:11:42 -0500
From: "Catherine Tannenbaum" <cat@perkworks.com>
Subject: Amish in Space

David,
This is a common misconception. I live in Pennsylvania and have met quite a
few Amish people, as well as mennonites.

I moved here a couple years ago from California, and was quite curious about
them and their culture, and I held a lot of the common misconceptions about
them. So being a west coaster, I just walked up to a woman about my age, who
had her children with her, and politely asked about their beliefs. She was
very happy to share them with me, as has everyone since her been. I have
spoken to numerous people about their culture and life style, and many of
them are from different groups.

Their basic ideas of keeping life simple do not keep them from taking the
train on occasion to a special occasion (like 4th of July in Washington DC),
or even taking the train to go to a new settlement. Every Sunday in many
amish communities after church they fire up the bench tractor to move the
benches from the persons home who had services held, to store elsewhere
until the next meeting. If you don't believe me, come on over and I will
take you to see.

 They believe so strongly in keeping the "outside world" out of their life,
that it is very believable to have them want to leave our planet with so
many "worldly temptaions". It is their strong beliefs in meidug (avoiding
the outside world). The other most striking thing about them is their
ability to turn the other cheek, no matter the cost. They do all these
things to be closer to God. Because they believe through simplicity and
focus on the scripture they can have a better relationship with God.

They do not avoid things out of stupidity or desire to live a hundred years
ago, or even blind faith in their elders (there are converts). They dress
and do as they do so that they can have time for what they think is
important, and live the way they spiritually believe gives them a better
relationship with God. It may seem like some hard strict life of nothing but
rules and work, but when you talk to the people you realize that is not what
it is at all, and they seem to be happy in their lives.

From the Amish I have met, it is very believable that many communities would
consider moving to a new planet strongly, to achieve that simpler life, on
an unpolluted world (they cherish nature as strongly as any people I have
ever met, including my tree hugging friends back home in California).  I
could see them paying to take the ship if promised a life without the
temptations of the outside world, as long as they were not required to fly
the ship, for a chance at the life every Good Amish man woman or child
dreams of finding, a life of the basics, no complications.
Cathy

- -----Original Message-----
From: David P. Summers <summers@alum.mit.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: Terran Languages in the 3I


>Tue, 24 Nov 1998 19:45:30 -0500, "Paul Schirf" <pc@PerkWorks.com>
>>Then again...
>>   a space colony of Amish would be an interesting thing. ;-)
>
>They might have a problem getting there.  There is a rule (if
>I understand them correctly) against anything that requires a
>man to work on the Sabath  (this is one reason they don't go
>in for municipal electricity).  The could only travel to
>their colony if ships didn't require any tending during jump.
>
>______________________________
>summers@alum.mit.edu
>(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in
California.)
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:29:13 CST
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@itds.com>
Subject: Re: High Guard mass combat resolution

> 		-3	Enemy Surprised
> 		-2 to 1	Own Attacking
> 		2-5	Skirmish
> 		6-9	Enemy Attacking
> 		10+	Own Surprised

Oh, look - it's errata; the "-3 Enemy Surprised" should be "-3 Own Surprised",
and the "10+ Own Surprised" should be "10+ Enemy Surprised".

I couldn't even copy the table without putting an error in.


DonM.
- --
==========================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist             dmckinne@itds.com =
= International Telecommunications Data Systems           (217) 239-8365 =
= 2109 Fox Drive, Champaign, IL                           (217) 351-8250 =
= Winter War XXVI Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 5-7, 1999 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org     (217) 469-9917 = 
==========================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:38:33 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: IG Liquidation

dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com wrote:

> I heard that some guy went into my FLGS and purchased the entire line of IG
> Traveller goods, and all the BITS items and GURPS items only a couple of
> weeks ago.

BITS items on FLGS shelves?!

Would that this could occur in the U.S. of A.

;)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 15:31:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: mostly G:T

Ian or Katts writes:
> 
> >The problem is that typically this capability is limited to _big_ ships
> >(more accurately, it's limited to interstellar corporations) -- in order
> >to practically do this 'load and go immediately' you need to have cargo
> >factors already insystem, who prepare cargo for you before you arrive, and
> >know 
> with a
> >high degree of certainty _when_ you'll arrive.  In addition, the cost per
> >ton of transported material is flat-out lower for larger ships.
> 
> By 'load up and go' I mean the Arguvid Dancer, a 200 dton jump-2 freighter,
> arrives on planet. It will take four hours to refuel and so on, once it
> makes planetfall.
> 
> There is a time-sensitive cargo that is waiting, and the next scheduled
> Decafreighter is leaving in 20 hours.

Unfortunately, the shipping factor for the cargo handler has a contract with
the Decafreighter corporation, and has guarantees that there _will_ be an
outgoing transit at a particular time; thus, by the time the Arguvid Dancer is
insystem, the transit has already been contracted, and has been for the past
couple of days (in fact, most likely Decafreighter, Inc, gives discounts on
transit costs if you make your shipping arrangements in advance).

For situations where bulk transit isn't sufficient, if it isn't going to minor
worlds (which I agree is free trader bait) this will most likely involve
contracted dedicated trade ships, which again doesn't particularly resemble the
standard free trader theory of operation.
> 
> Fine. It still works ... would a geostationary orbit change this ?

Yes, it would increase transit times.
> 
> Gas giant skimming is an issue only for exploratory traders, and captains
> who do not understand that time is money.

I like minimal capabilities for that to handle misjumps, but agree that it
isn't useful in general for cargo transit.
> 
> I can see absolutely no reason to disallow ships under a gee. Can someone
> build me a 1 dton CG module under Gurps:Vehicles ?

Heh.  Sure.  3.5 tons, 1 space, 5,000 tons CG lift, 0.6 MCr at TL 10, 0.5 MCr
at TL 12.  Adding CG to ships is incredibly efficient.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:39:36 -0800
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Jump-6 courier network

David P. Summers wrote:

> Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:03:33 +0100 (MET), Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
> >>[List of why the X-boat network is J-4]
> >>- - The Imperium just doesn't want to shell out the bucks for jump-6.
>
> >Why not? We're told that the Imperium is straining under the long
> >communication times between the core and the borders.
>
> Are we told that the Imperium recognizes this strain?  (The Romans
> didn't recognize many of the strains on their Empire).  Would a
> 33% increase in time be enough to make a significant difference
> in this strain (compared to the costs involved)?  Is the strain
> related to X-boat speeds at all?  (What method do governmental
> directives, orders, etc. get sent?)

You know, the Imperium could simply pull in its borders rather than pour cash on
the communications problem.  Its a diminishing returns problem.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 12:46:35 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: IG Liquidation

Date sent:      	Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:46:28 -0500
From:           	steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>

>If you missed it,
>http://www.imperiumgames.com/

>Liquidation announced.
>This is probably their attempt to satisfy creditors.

Rejoicing and dancing on graves shall be restricted to three days.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:55:48 -0600
From: "James Pearson" <jdpearson@wr.net>
Subject: Re: IG Liquidation

I thought that Marc had said in a posting that IG was no longer allowed to sell 
any of their product?!


 -- James Pearson
"The purpose of a referee is to present obstacles 
for players to overcome as they go about seeking 
their goals, not to constantly make trouble for them.
This is a very subtle distinction ..."

The Traveller Book, p. 12

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/4089

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 20:05:27 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Hull Design - UN-DSN "County-Class" Strike Carrier, TL 11

At 09:38 AM 26/11/98 +1300, you wrote:
>At 12:14 25/11/98 -0400, Michel Vaillancourt wrote:
>
>>        The ship has 12 turrets. There are 12 beam lasers mounted in 4
>>turrets organized in 2 batteries.  There are 8 plasma guns mounted in 4
>>turrets organized in 2 batteries.  There are 12 missile racks mounted in 4
>>turrets organized into 1 battery.  For defense it has 12 sand-casters
>>mounted in 4 turrets organized into 2 batteries and an agility of 1.  
>
>Excuse me but doesn't 4 laser turrets plus 4 plasma turrets plus 4 missile
>turrets plus 4 sandcaster turrets equal 16, not 12?
>

        Yes, they do...  <sigh>.  Thanks...  Those are supposed to be "3"'s,
not "4"'s....  which means the USPs are also hooched.  Not by much, but its
enough.
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:07:56 -0600
From: "Christopher B. Thrash" <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: GT contra-gravity module

> I can see absolutely no reason to disallow ships under a gee. Can someone
> build me a 1 dton CG module under Gurps:Vehicles ?
> 

I have, but you won't like it (portions of the description quoted from
GURPS Vehicles, 2d Ed., p. 41, (c) 1996 by SJ Games):

"Contragravity Module (TL 10, 0.5 dtons, 2.1 stons, MCr 0.33)

Provides 3,000 stons of contra-gravity lift; in order to fly, the lift
should exceed the vehicle's expected final weight (in all anticipated
gravities).  Note that contra-gravity does not propel the vehicle, it only
lifts it."

Yes, I *do* mean stons (short tons, 2,000lbs each), not pounds: 
contra-gravity is extremely cheap in VE2.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:15:11 CST
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@itds.com>
Subject: Looking for copies of computer games

I'm looking for copies of MT1: The Zhodani Conspiracy and MT2: Quest for
the Ancients, for the IBM PC.  Anyone who is willing to part with one,
please e-mail me.


DonM.
- --
==========================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist             dmckinne@itds.com =
= International Telecommunications Data Systems           (217) 239-8365 =
= 2109 Fox Drive, Champaign, IL                           (217) 351-8250 =
= Winter War XXVI Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 5-7, 1999 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org     (217) 469-9917 = 
==========================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:03:51 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: What's a LEO?

At 10:18 PM 11/23/98 PST, you wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>> Leo Hale wrote:
>>>      What is or are LEO's, and should hope it is nothing derogatory.
>>> 
>>> Leo
>>
>> Law Enforcement Officer, in this case
>>
>> The other common LEO is Low Earth Orbit.
>>
>> This would mean that Highport cops are LEOLEO's ;-)
>
>But nobody in his right mind would put the highport in LEO. GEO is a
>much better location except at really low tech levels. So that makes
>them:  GEOLEOs.
>
Either way, their owned by COACC, so their CLEOs

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 00:22:05 +0000 (GMT)
From: Traveller <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
Subject: Jump-6 Courier Networks

I think I see the problem with Jump 6 X-boat routes.
If you look at CT designs (book 2 or 5) then the cost of giving jump 6 to
a small (100std) ship is high because of the Model 6 computer (55MCr) and
the 20std bridge (boosting the size to 135std).

So yes, the ships do end up costing 155MCr or more.

But with T4 and FFS2, things are very different. The jump 6 100std courier
is easily possible at 40MCr.

I don't know FFS1 (TNE) or MT that well, but I would assume that FFS1
would be similar in price and MT someway between the two.

So what follows is a design for a X-boat built to FFS2.

Based upon my thoughts about a jump-6 core network with lower jump feeder
networks, the following design is for a TL12 jump-2 ship with enough fuel
for jump-6 (the HEPlaR fuel tank can extend this to jump-7 and still have
5-Ghour left).

Despite the provision of manoeuvre at up to 2-G, a crew of 2 (required by
the HEPlaR drive although in traditional X-boat mode with pickup by
tender, one should suffice) and an air/raft (or lifeboat) bay, there is
plenty of spare space in the drive bay.

The reason for the space is that the TL12 jump drive and power plant can
be replaced with a TL13 jump-4 + 108MW fusion plant or a TL15 jump-6 +
158MW fusion plant. The rest of the ship reamins at TL12.

At TL12 the cost is 25MCr, rising to 34MCr for jump-4 and 40MCr for jump-6.
Discounts for tech level and mass production have not been included.

The three computers are model 6 (although this does not appear to be
necessary for the jump) since there will be a large amount of electronic
data to store. To transfer this data there is a radio and six laser comms.

Also, the 4std for the vehicle could include small, valuable, parcels in
the cargo space of the carried vehicle.

The X-boat is streamlined and has 1G of contra grav if manoeuvring around
planets is required.

With wider availability of TL15 manufacture, replacing the computers and
G-Comp with TL15 would save 4MCr and 3MW. A purely TL15 design could have
fuel for jump-8 and 5-G HePlaR but there seems little point.

Phil Kitching

============================================

Modular X-boat (FF&Sv2 Andy Akins Spreadsheet)
Designed by Postmark Design Bureau

Statistics
        Tons:              100 std (SL Sphere Simple)
        Volume:           1400 m3
        Mass (L/C):        508 t/437 t
        Dimensions:         13.9 m diameter
        Size:                8
        Crew:                2/2
        Cost:               24.92 MCr
        Maintenance Points: 17
        Tech Level:         12

Electronics
        Controls:    Dynamic, High automation.
                     3xComp  (CM:0.4 CP:2.5). Bridge.
        Commo:       1xRadio (1,000AU, 0.2MW).
                     6xLaser (1,000AU, 0MW).
        Sensors:     1xPEMS  (12.5 [1.6mkm], 0MW).
        Signatures:  Vis:-1, IR:-0.5 (-1 at 6MW), Act:0, Neu:-1, Grav:-2

Performance
        Jump              2        (10std/pc fuel)
        Maneuver          1/1.1    (/HEPlaR:25MW,27.4 G-hours)
        Contra-grav       1/1.1    (8MW)
        Atmosphere      320/320kph (/Crus:240kph/240kph)
        Power             1        (/Fus:57MW,0.7yr )
        Fuel             72.5

Accomodations
        Small Staterooms  2

Life Support
                         32 pwks  (/Ty:St,Nm /'St)
        G-Comp            1
        Armour            0 [20]
        Structure         6

Features
        Airlock           1
        Ordinary Galley   1 (Cap:2)
        Sanitary Facility 1

Small Craft
        Minimal Hangar    1 (4std, 1 hatches)

Backups
        Commo: 1xRadio (500,000km).

Crew Details
        2xMnvr.

====================================

Jump 6 module

        Mass (L/C):        508t/437t
        Cost:               40.38 MCr
        Maintenance Points: 17
        Tech Level:         15

Performance
        Jump              6        (10std/pc fuel)
        Power             3        (/Fus:158MW,0.3yr )

====================================

Jump 4 module

        Mass (L/C):        576t/505t
        Cost:               34.17 MCr
        Maintenance Points: 21
        Tech Level:         13

Performance
        Jump              4        (10std/pc fuel)
        Maneuver          0.9/1    (/HEPlaR:25MW,24.2 G-hours)
        Contra-grav       0.9/1    (8MW)
        Power             2        (/Fus:108MW,0.4yr )

====================================

- -- 
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technology Division
"Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the galaxy."
Phil Kitching on postmark.design@btinternet.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 20:31:53 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Assorted TRAVELLER Support Files (MS-Word and MS-Excel)

        The High Guard Design sheet had a couple of broken formulas in it
regarding energy consumption for shields.  Also, bridge cost calculation was
incorrect.  Fixed version of the file is now in the zip archive.  Archive
version is 11981125.

        Thanks to the folks who noticed and mentioned these....  It was a
late night on really neat pain killers when I set that up, so I am not
surprised there were a couple of boo-boo's. ;)
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:30:03 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Languages in Traveller

Ethan Henry wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> Anyway, to sum up a long, rambling message - Westerners have skewed
> views of what languages are spoken by the most amount of people. There
> will be planets, nay, dozens of planets in the Solomani Rim where each
> and every inhabitant will be "brown" (for lack of a better term) and the
> main language will be Hindi, Punjabi, or something like that. There
> _may_ be one planet of blond, blue-eyed German speakers. [Special bonus
> conclusion: guess which one is full of Aryans?]
> 
The planet where Farsi is spoken.

> Ethan
> --
> Ethan Henry                                            egh@klg.com
> Java Evangelist, KL Group                       http://www.klg.com

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:32:19 -0500
From: "Dan Eveland" <develand@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Stellar Diameter

Is a red giant's outer portions cool enough and dense enough to skim fuel
from?

Dan



- -----Original Message-----
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 1:19 AM
Subject: Stellar Diameter


>Ewan Quibell wrote:
>
>>I've had a quick look through WBH and have found the Stellar
>>mass tables, but could not find anything for Stellar Diamiter.
>
>>Did I miss something ? If not is there any way to generate, or
>>gage stellar diamiter from Stellar mass or stellar type ?
>
>I've been looking into this myself and happen to have a 1996
>Astrophysics textbook checked out from the local university
>library. Although the spectral type, luminosity, and temperature
>of star are correlated with its mass and composition, the
>relationship is not simple and it's best to use a table.
>Masses are estimated from observation of binary systems.
>
>However, Stellar radii (and thus diameters) are usually
>calculated from the luminosity (based on observable magnitude and
>estimated distance) and estimated temperature (derived from the
>spectrum).
>
>Rstar/Rsun = (Tsun/Tstar)^2 * sqrt(Lstar/Lsun)
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:54:32 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Languages in Traveller 

> Ethan Henry wrote:
> > 
> <<snip>>
> > 
> > Anyway, to sum up a long, rambling message - Westerners have skewed
> > views of what languages are spoken by the most amount of people. There
> > will be planets, nay, dozens of planets in the Solomani Rim where each
> > and every inhabitant will be "brown" (for lack of a better term) and the
> > main language will be Hindi, Punjabi, or something like that. There
> > _may_ be one planet of blond, blue-eyed German speakers. [Special bonus
> > conclusion: guess which one is full of Aryans?]
> > 
> The planet where Farsi is spoken.

That's where the Persians hang out.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:03:11 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Density (gearheads alert)

For a TL-8 example of what's available, see the article "Gravity
Gradiometry," Scientific American, June 1998, pp74+. Geologists are
using technology originally developed for nuclear submarine
navigation to map, for example, underground salt formations in the
hunt for oil.
- -- Dave Golden
- -- House in Colorado Springs for sale! 
- -- http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/House

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:04:43 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Anyone know what this is about?

At 07:16 am 11/25/98 -0800, you wrote:
><Lurk mode off>
>Considering that they took my money and still owe me two books from
over a
>year ago
>I WOULDN"T ORDER ANTHING FROM THEM!!!. Sorry for shouting. If you
can get
>them
>to send the product C.O.D. that would be the way to go. Be very
careful in
>dealing with them
>Of course this is only my opinion.
><Lurk mode on>

	Considering that they are legally prohibited from selling ANY
Traveller material, I would doubly not order from them ...
- -- Dave Golden
- -- House in Colorado Springs for sale! 
- -- http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/House

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:55:47 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Deep Meson Sites

Any suggestions about parameters of deep meson sites under FF&S2?  I was
planning to use Andrew Akins' FF&S2 Excel spreadsheet (ver 3.2), only
with no drives.  I would use a dispersed-type structure (to simulate the
dispersed sensor array).

What do y'all think?

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 22:19:18 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

Steven Hudson replied:

>Well, this is subjective.  I find this picture of an Imperium
where
>they can track everyone, catch smugglers reliably,
>etc. to be hard to believe in a background where communications
>have to be carried by ship and the interstellar governement
>is supposedly disinterested in local affairs.

>  Which doesn't imply that i) the Imperium doesn't care about
>internal security matters, and that ii) slow communications
>means lost messages. If the Imperium can't track ships using
>delayed collation of shipping reports then they're either simply
>too stupid to be believed or they must not give a damn at all.

Slow communications means big headaches in trying to correlate
differing reports coming at different times by different routes.
Delayed collation of shipping reports over as little as a
subsector will take weeks just to collect and longer to verify.
Offenses have to be fairly recent and notorious to get much
attention from those who have to do the arresting and detaining.
  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 22:19:15 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Average Temperature of Earth

Average Temperature of Earth

Martyn Wheeler asked:

>Somewhere since the last time I did a massive generation of star
>systems under WBH, I have forgotten what the average temperature
>of Earth is (at hex row 4, of course ;-) ).  I can't remember
>whether it's 5C, 10C, 15C, or what, so I don't have a solid
>handle on which worlds are "hot" and which ones "cold".

>Anyone have a pointer to this information?

Average temperature of earth without an atmosphere would be about
255 K, or -18 C. With it's atmosphere, it's about 288 K or 15 C.
  

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1196
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, November 26 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1197



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: IG Liquidation
Re: Hull Design - UN-DSN "County-Class" Strike Carrier, TL 11
Corrected UN-DSN "County"-Class Striker Carrier (TL 11)
Re: Muses and County-class
Re: Languages in Traveller
Non-ship Gearheadedness
Traveller Chronicle
Re: High Guard mass combat resolution system (LONG)
Re: Mass combat system for Traveller
Re: Defenses against teleporters
Re: Comments on G:T Decafreighter
Re: Imperium
Re: Languages in Traveller
Re: Mass combat system for Traveller
Re: Hull Design - UN-DSN "County-Class" Strike Carrier, TL 11
Re: Muses and County-class
Re: Languages in Traveller 
Re: Traveller Chronicle
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1194
Re: High Guard mass combat resolution system (LONG)
re: Amish in Space
re: Jump-6 Courier network
Re: Smuggling

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 16:29:35 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: IG Liquidation

From:           	"James Pearson" <jdpearson@wr.net>
ate sent:      	Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:55:48 -0600

>I thought that Marc had said in a posting that IG was no longer allowed to sell 
>any of their product?!

He did (the post was dated 17th July BTW). I can see 3 basic possibilities:

1 - Marc and IG have come to some arrangement allowing IG to sell
2 - IG has got legal advice that its allowed to sell despite Marc
3 - IG is acting illegally

I really hope its 1, but given IG's past actions I strongly suspect it's 3. 
Whatever the case may be, I won't touch IG without some further information 
and even then (given their track record with orders) I probably still wouldn't.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 21:00:01 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Hull Design - UN-DSN "County-Class" Strike Carrier, TL 11

At 05:27 PM 25/11/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 11/25/98 8:11:16 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca writes:
>
><< Magazine	400 Missiles	40.00 				
> 		 		40.00 				 >>
>
>I have a question. I have HG2. There are no rules for magazines (pity...).
>Where did you get this data from?
>

        "The Traveller Book", pp 61, "Weaponry"
        Missile Racks .....  "Indivudual missiles weigh about 50kg and cost
Cr5000 each"
        Sandcasters   .....  "...replacement canisters of this special sand
weigh about 50kg and cost Cr400".

        So, you should really get 20 to a ton.  However, I find, given what
I know about RealWorld(tm) Harpoons, Styx and similar systems, this is too
small a size of weapon.  AS has been discussed to death on this list, direct
impact-kill weapons are either improbable or totally devastating, with very
little happy medium.  So, I reality adjuset the missile sizes up 100% for MTU.
        Incidentally, "Special Supplement 3: Missiles in Traveller"
(appeared in JTAS #21 as a pullout) comments that you can build missiles as
big as you like, but weapons bigger than 50kg will not fit in standard
racks.  They can only be fired from bays under the HG system.  SS3 allows
you to build custom designed missiles of various sizes that produce all
kinds of interesting effects;  for example, a nuclear warhead optimized for
radiation effects instead of the fireball.  They also cover thermonuclear
weapons (eeeeeeek!) and high-speed impact effects of missiles.
        Obviously, for MTU, that 50kg rack limit is 100kg;  however, I
haven't done any real missile design with the system.  I should, and find
out what the implications of that 100kg missile are.  I note that "a typical
missile is a 5G5 limited burn, radio sensing, proximity detonating,
high-explosive warhead (all at default TL) costing Cr16,200 and massing 50kg."
        They also comment that the sophisticated guidance systems in the
sensor tips would be able to allow intercepts by discretionary burn missiles
on thier targets within several hundred meters.  Which is somewhat different
than we had been hashing about on the list.
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 00:05:35 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Corrected UN-DSN "County"-Class Striker Carrier (TL 11)

        Thanks to the three or four people who provided feedback on the
original post...  I appreciated the suggestions on how to tune the design
and on a couple of errors in my calulcations spreadsheet.

        O/________________________________________________
        O\

        2097 - County-Class Strike Carrier   Type CS
        TL 11.  1550 tons. 
        Using a 1550-ton conical hull, the County-Class Strike Carrier is
the newest tool for the projection of UN Naval power into a star system.
        It is performance-rated at jump-1, 2-G acceleration and 46.5EP
        Fuel tankage for 356.5 tons supports the power plant and 2 jump-1.
The ship is fitted with fuel scoops and a purification plant.
        Adjacent to the bridge is a computer Model/5fib computer and a
redundant Model/2fib.
        There are 61 staterooms, no standard low berths and no emergency low
berths and.
        The ship has 15 turrets. There are 15 beam lasers mounted in 5
turrets organized in 1 battery.  There are 8 plasma guns mounted in 4
turrets organized in 2 batteries.  There are 12 missile racks mounted in 4
turrets organized into 2 batteries.  For defense it has 6 sand-casters
mounted in 2 turrets organized into 2 batteries and an agility of 1.  There
is a 45-ton magazine and are 20% of missiles normally carried are nuclear
weapons.
        There are 30 ship's vehicles.  The ship carries three squadrons of
Typhoon-class "Standard-III" multi-role fighters.  Two squadrons of Typhoons
are armed with single pulse lasers, while the third is armed with triple
missile racks.
        Cargo capacity is 0 tons.
        The hull is fully streamlined.
        There is 0 tons of waste space.
        The County-Class Strike Carrier requires a crew of 91.  10 Command
section, 2 Engineers, 7 Gunners and 72 Flight section are required.
        The fighter crews operates the fighter compliment.
        The ship costs MCr778.36, including architects fees, less class
discounts and takes 48 months to build.  The first was built in 2097, with a
production run of 24 of these ships scheduled between 2097 and 2105.  The
lead ship was the UN-DSN Dover, and has been assigned to the Spinward areas
of the established Terran Sphere.

        O/________________________________________________
        O\

SHIP DESIGN WORKSHEET				1.  Date of Preparation		
							2097		
2.  Ship name			3.  Ship Type				4.  Tech Level
UN-DSN Dover			County-Class Strike Carrier			 11.00 

5.  Hull	Remarks		Tons		MCr		EP	Crew	Factor
Hull		1550		 		155.00 				A
Configuration	Cone		 		 15.50 				2
Armor		 		-   	 	-   				0
Waste Space						
	Subtotals	 	-   	 	170.50 			

6.  Drives	Remarks		Tons		MCr		EP	Crew	Factor
Jump Drive		 	 31.00 	 	124.00 			0.3	1
Maneuver		 	 77.50 	 	 86.80 			0.8	2
Power Plant		 	139.50 	 	418.50 	 	46.50 	1.4	3
Jump Fuel	1jp1	 	155.00 				
Power Plant Fuel		 46.50 				
Excess Fuel	+1jp1	 	155.00 				
Special Tanks						
Purification		 	 12.48 	 	  0.06 			
Fuel Scoops					  1.55			
	Subtotals	 	616.98 	 	630.91 	 	46.50 	2.00 	

7.  Controls	Remarks		Tons		MCr		EP	Crew	Factor
Bridge		 		 31.00 	 	  7.75 			10	
Aux Bridge						
Computer	12/25	 	 10.00 	 	 68.00 	 	3.00 		E
Aux Computer	3/6	 	  4.00 	 	 14.00 	 	-   		B
	Subtotals	 	 45.00 	 	 89.75 	 	3.00 	10	

8.  Weaponry	Remarks		Tons		MCr		EP	Crew	Factor
Major Weapon					0	
Bay Repulsor						
Bay Energy						
Bay Particle						
Bay Meson						
Bay Missiles						
Turret Sand	2 bttry	 	  2.00 	 	 1.50 			2	 4.00 
Turret Lasers	1 bttry	 	  5.00 	 	15.00		15.00 	1	 6.00 
Turret Energy	2 bttry	 	  8.00 	 	12.00 	 	16.00 	2	 3.00 
Turret Particle						
Turret Missiles	2 bttry	 	  4.00 	 	 9.00 			2	 3.00 
Barbette Particle						
	Subtotals	 	 19.00 	 	37.50 	 	31.00 	7	

9.  Screens	Remarks		Tons		MCr		EP	Crew	Factor
Meson Screen		 	-   	 	-   	 	-   	0	0
Nuclear Damper		 	-   	 	-   	 	-   	0	0
Force Field		 	-   	 	-   			0	0
Deflector Screen							0	
	Subtotals	 	-   	 	-   	 	-   	0	

11.  Facilities	Remarks		Tons		MCr		Crew	
Small Craft Hangars		330.00 	 	 0.66 		61	
Big Craft Hangars			 -   			
Launch Facilities						
Launch Tubes		 	250.00 	 	 0.50 		10	
Vehicles						
	Subtotals	 	580.00 	 	 1.16 		71	

Crew Lists			Officers	Crew			
Command Section			7		3			
Engineering			1		1			
Gunnery				3		4			
Flight Section			32		40			
Ship's Troops						
Service Crew						
Passengers						
	Subtotals		43		88			

12.  Quarters			Tons		MCr		Crew	
Single Staterooms	 43 	 172.00 	 21.50 		43	
Double Staterooms	 24 	  96.00 	 12.00 		48	
Low Berths		 	    -   	 -   		0	
Emergency Low		 	    -   	 -   		0	
	Subtotals	 	268.00 	 	33.50 		91	

13.  Cargo	Remarks		Tons				
Cargo	Potential : 0.0 tons					
Mail						
Magazine	450 Missiles	 45.00 				
				 45.00 				

14.  Totals	Remarks		Tons		MCr		EP	Crew	
Hull				  0.00	 	170.50 		0	
Drives				616.98	 	630.91 	 	 46.50 	2	
Controls			 45.00	 	 89.75 	 	 (3.00)	10	
Weapons				 19.00	 	 37.50 	 	(31.00)	7	
Screens				  0.00	 	  -   	 	 -   	0	
Facilities			580.00	 	  1.16 			71	
Quarters			244.00	 	 30.50 		0	
Cargo				 45.00				
	Subtotals	       1549.98		963.32		12.5	90	
Architect's Fees			  	  9.63			
Discounts				       -194.59				Agility
Totals			       1549.98		778.36		12.5	90	0.8

15.  Notes						
Carries 30 Typhoon "Standard-III" Fighters

        O/________________________________________________
        O\
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
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		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
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	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 23:28:15 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Muses and County-class

At 07:28 AM 26/11/98, you wrote:
>>From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
>>Subject: Hull Design - UN-DSN "County-Class" Strike Carrier, TL 11
>>
>>        The ship costs MCr709.20, including architects fees and takes 48
>>months to build.  The first was built in 2097, with a production run of 24
>>of these ships scheduled between 2097 and 2105.  The lead ship was the
>>UN-DSN Dover, and has been assigned to the Spinward areas of the established
>>Terran Sphere.
>
>OK. My long-dormant memories of High Guard are waking up.
>
>It's Armour Factor zero, so why not make it an open frame design ? This
>will save a little money, and any volume you might have committed to launch
>tubes.

        Trying to keep the size down, so it needs to be streamlined to allow
planetary landing.  Can't land an open structure.

>Ooops, there are no launch tubes. How long does the wing of 30 fighters
>take to get out of the County class anyway ?

        ..."Duh, gee. knuckles....  about 7 and a half hours..."
        Thanks, I haven't done a carrier design in about 5 years...  BIG
oversight.  I'll post the corrected version... the only way to make a launch
tube work with a ten-ton fighter and keep the range I want is to go to a
1550 dton hull.  Which alters the price surprisingly little.  However, it
allows me to correct another mistake, which was turret numbers.  I've
re-arranged the turret allocations a bit, too....  PGST technology is still
too young at TL 11 to make it easy to get mean with them;  so I've shifted
the emphasis for primary weapons onto the beam lasers.

>Does it have a Battlecruiser equivalent, with jump-2 and some bay weaponary ?
>

        It really should...  It'd get the snot kicked out of it without
escorts, even if I use the optional fighter rules.  The problem is that in a
~1000 dton hull, you get one bay and no turrets....  which means no engaging
of multiple targets, all eggs in one basket.  Of course, whatever your one
bay fires at is dead-dead-dead, given that 90% of everything else is smaller
than 900 tons.
        Hmmm...  so, I guess I'll go design 1dKton battlecruiser...  I
really didn't need to be in bed before midnight tonight anyway...

>Ian Whitchurch
>
>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
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	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 23:19:07 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Languages in Traveller

Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com> writes:
>Given a chance to get out of a fairly harsh climate
>(both as a result of natural disasters and overpopulation), I think
>"Indians" (for lack of a better name) would get the heck out and start
>settling some new worlds pretty fast. By the time the Solomani Rim
>has a place on the interstellar maps, I imagine you hear a heck of a lot
>more Hindi than either French or German. Heck, Hindi is probably already
>as old as the Third Imperium is in 1120. :)

So I can get a decent curry on Regina and Rhylanor?  Great!  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 23:24:43 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Non-ship Gearheadedness

"Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au> writes:
>Another thought:  do any of you gearheads design stuff other than ships?

Yup. I've sent the draft of "101 Vehicles" off to BITS. The BITS marketing
department (hi Dom) is still debating customer demand and release format,
while BITS editorial staff (hi Dom) is checking my grammar.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 23:34:02 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Traveller Chronicle

>Do you mean the Traveller Chronicle ? I have a spare copy of #7 if you do.
>Please send me your address if this is the case.

Speaking of which, has anyone heard from Kevin or Harold recently?  They
owe me over a year worth of subscriptions...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 23:40:27 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: High Guard mass combat resolution system (LONG)

Don McKinney <dmckinne@itds.com> writes:
>Last week, Rob Prior asked, in response to my questions on this, would
>I see it being similar to the Mercenary abstract system.  So, my mind
>immediately began working, and I've come up with this.

A credible job. Without playtesting, I have no idea how 'reasonable' it is
in terms of modelling FFW and/or HG combat, but it looks possible.

My complaint would be the same one that I have about the abstract system
in Mercenary: too dull. 

It's basically see if you fight, see if you die.  What I'd rather see is a
system that gave a sense of the flow of battle. Whether this could be done
with cards, or with a flowchart, or what, I don't know, but I'd like
something that provides some 'colour' as well as raw stats.

(This is personal preference, mind you, and possibly not at all what _you_
want out of the syste,)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 21:41:04 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Mass combat system for Traveller

>From: DustyLV769@aol.com
...
>   I just found the original worksheets for the Striker (I) micro-armour
> stats to a bunch of 20th C. based designs. Not terribly relevant to most
> PC's though (at least so they hope). >>
>
>	Could you post these to the list?

  As time permits, starting next week. You are acquainted with the second
trilogy of Trav LBB's of wisdom?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:18:43 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Defenses against teleporters

Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU> writes:
>Hmmm, seems I need to rethink this a bit. Some people have pointed
>out that an incoming teleporter must be able to displace the air, so
>must have some ability to push stuff out of the way. The question is
>going to then be, how much stuff can be pushed? (Not to mention,
>how strongly is it pushed, how is it pushed, and how fast is it pushed.)
>Can the person just push air out of the way, or water as well? How about
>dust? Corrosive atmosphere? Riot foam? Bead curtains? And what
>happens when the person can't push the matter out of the way (like the
>case of steel pins all over the place, steel wire grids or an unfortunate
>misdirection into a tube full of steel ball bearings).

My explanation is that the teleporter _swaps_ with the contents of the
destination. Thus, if you teleport into solid rock, a solid rock
'sculpture' appears where you were, and you suffocate to death (unless, of
course, the rock was under pressure, in which case you might be crushed).

This neatly solves the air problem, without greatly changing teleporters'
abilities.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 20:42:14 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Comments on G:T Decafreighter

>BTW, thrust has been based on mass since FFS v1. Incidentally, I dont like
>cargo to be assumed at 5t per dton ... that is about 0.3 t/m3, which is
>lower than I think most commodities would be.

Try 500 kg/kL, which is half that of water and the same as used by CSC.
The original Striker used 1 tonne per cubic metre, or the density of
water, which sounds to me more reasonable when designing a ship.

I have no idea what this works out to in tons per cubic yard, but as so
many of you pointed out, there are many conversion utilities available so
no one should have problems... :-)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 20:52:36 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Imperium

SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> writes:
>Have any ex-Vilani commanders from Imperium got tips? At the moment I feel
>as if I really am the Vilani, not a player. My enemy is starting to out
>innovate me, and spreading like wildfire - how do I crush him without
>stopping the war and allowing him to consolidate?

Show your dedication to the greater good and lose the war!

Seriously, petition the Emperor _every_ turn for a budget increase. Sure,
this rapidly lowers your glory, but it will (on average) raise your
budget. Invest the money in new colonies and smaller vessels - the kind
that don't get recalled during peaces.  Go in for material damage: after
all, all your loses are eventually replaced for free, while the Terrans
have to pay for their replacements.

If you are careful, you can balance your glory loses (because of
petitions) with glory gains (from destroying his/her colonies) until the
victory conditions condense too much.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 21:01:47 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Languages in Traveller

Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil> writes:
>I think that German is more likely to take the place of French.  No
>offense intended to French-speakers on the list, but I believe that
>German is more widespread than French and is likely to stay so.

The French has a lot of colonies, many of which still use French as a
second language. To my Indochinese friends, English is their third
language (after French, which they learned in school). Large parts of
Africa use French as well.

According to my Cambridge Encyclopedia of Language, French looks more
widespread than German.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 21:04:35 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Mass combat system for Traveller

SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> writes:
>FT is a starship minatures combat system written by Ground Zero Games in
>the UK (published by Geohex in the US). It is reasonably generic but does
>have its own universe. It's quite fast, fun and cheap.

Cheap in England. It's a six quid game that sells here for $30 - so
someone is making a mucking huge profit!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 23:45:53 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Hull Design - UN-DSN "County-Class" Strike Carrier, TL 11

In a message dated 11/25/98 8:07:19 PM Pacific Standard Time,
misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca writes:

<<  Incidentally, "Special Supplement 3: Missiles in Traveller"
 (appeared in JTAS #21 as a pullout) comments that you can build missiles as
 big as you like, but weapons bigger than 50kg will not fit in standard
 racks.  They can only be fired from bays under the HG system.  >>

Thanks for the info... I don't have SS3. I quess that that is the most
workable solution for CT (ten or twenty missiles per ton of magazine; take
your pick...). The problem is that the missile data is talking weight
(kilograms), and the magazine size is talking volume (displacement tons). I
have the seeker games SDB deckplans and the missile magazines show two
missiles taking up two 1.5m squares on the plans. I would interpret this
(asuming the artist got the dimensions right, and this is a big if...) that
TWO (2) missiles take up a displacement ton. This is because the plans don't
show the "second" row of missiles (remember that the plans asume a 3 meter
high deck, so these two "deck squares are really four cubes in two rows of
two. Thus there is four missiles in two rows of two taking up the space of the
four cubes. Thus one missile per half ton displacement (two squares to the ton
displacement). I now see why Striker (and then FFS, FFS2, etc.) went with
having to compute both weight and volume in their design sequences. The down
side is that HG is SO much faster and easier to work with than the other
systems (I can design 4-5 HG ships in the time it takes to do 1 Striker Grav
tank) as I am NOT a gearhead....

Seth

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 23:48:26 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Muses and County-class

In a message dated 11/25/98 8:08:14 PM Pacific Standard Time,
misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca writes:

<<      ..."Duh, gee. knuckles....  about 7 and a half hours..."
         Thanks, I haven't done a carrier design in about 5 years...  BIG
 oversight.  >>

Of course if you use a dispersed structure, you don't NEED launch tubes (they
can all be launched at once).

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 23:58:17 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Languages in Traveller 

> Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com> writes:
> >Given a chance to get out of a fairly harsh climate
> >(both as a result of natural disasters and overpopulation), I think
> >"Indians" (for lack of a better name) would get the heck out and start
> >settling some new worlds pretty fast. By the time the Solomani Rim
> >has a place on the interstellar maps, I imagine you hear a heck of a lot
> >more Hindi than either French or German. Heck, Hindi is probably already
> >as old as the Third Imperium is in 1120. :)
> 
> So I can get a decent curry on Regina and Rhylanor?  Great!  

Hell with that.  I wanna know if I can find a good noodle joint in the Mora 
system.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 21:12:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Sword Worlder <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Chronicle

Kevin has been selling issues 5-13 and a copy of T4 bundled as an eBay
auction item.  They're going cheap.  But I've tried to buy some other
Trav stuff from him and he doesn't reply.  Odd.  Nice mag, though.


- ---Rob Prior <Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca> wrote:
>
> >Do you mean the Traveller Chronicle ? I have a spare copy of #7 if you do.
> >Please send me your address if this is the case.
> 
> Speaking of which, has anyone heard from Kevin or Harold recently? They
> owe me over a year worth of subscriptions...
> 
> 

==
- ------------------------><>------------------------
IMTU 0601 tc++ tm !tn t4+ ?tg ru++ 3i pi ta+ he+ 
http://come.to/traveller

Visit the "Subsidized Merchant" - http://surf.to/traveller-trader 
_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 22:10:43 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1194

...
>Famile Spofulam has a small but dedicated clientele.

  In case you don't realize, "committed" might be more accurate  ...eventually.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 21:15:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Sword Worlder <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: High Guard mass combat resolution system (LONG)

- ---Rob Prior <Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca> wrote:
> My complaint would be the same one that I have about the abstract
system
> in Mercenary: too dull. 
> It's basically see if you fight, see if you die.  What I'd rather
see is a system that gave a sense of the flow of battle. Whether this
could be done with cards, or with a flowchart, or what, I don't know,
but I'd like something that provides some 'colour' as well as raw stats.
> (This is personal preference, mind you, and possibly not at all what
_you_ want out of the syste,)
> 

How about a holographic simulation :->

==
- ------------------------><>------------------------
IMTU 0601 tc++ tm !tn t4+ ?tg ru++ 3i pi ta+ he+ 
http://come.to/traveller

Visit the "Subsidized Merchant" - http://surf.to/traveller-trader 
_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 00:26:07 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: re: Amish in Space

Would an Amish planet in space be a pastoral utopia?

It might be someone else's slave supply.

Amish of northeastern USA are protected by the outside world they
shun. State Troopers, Sheriffs, US Military forces, etc. are all there
to protect the Amish from organized violence, whether it be gangs
or foreign armies. An entire planet of non-violent, extreme turn-the-other
cheekists would have no such protections, and might not be culturally
able to hire them. Defenceless, in a galaxy that is frequently not
a very nice place.

I could almost see the Imperium/Terran Confederation/Whoever
Amber Zoning such a world, and leaving a patrol squadron in orbit - 
unless these Amish had left the Imperium behind.

"It'll be interesting to see how long the meek get to keep the Earth
once they inherit it." (a quote, though the source escapes me)

Walt Smith

(This is not intended as a slight against non-violent people, being
something of one myself. I realize that non-violent people currently
need the protection of dedicated, professionally violent people, and am 
happy my society has some.)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 00:29:30 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: re: Jump-6 Courier network

Joe Petit wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
You know, the Imperium could simply pull in its borders rather than pour 
cash on the communications problem.  Its a diminishing returns problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
Not an uncommon tactic, historically, for empires with unstable borders.

The history supplement in the _Imperium_ game gave me the idea that
the Ziru Sirka was doing just that on the Terran border for a while -
the local governor was trading marginal systems for periods of peace.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 22:37:27 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Smuggling

>From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: Smuggling
...
>Slow communications means big headaches in trying to correlate
>differing reports coming at different times by different routes.
  
  I'm not sure that this is a given, as the work I've done isn't really
similar enough for me to say. We do know that these problems have been
handled before without computer technologies, however.

>Delayed collation of shipping reports over as little as a
>subsector will take weeks just to collect and longer to verify.

  Granted, although I'm unsure where "verify" comes into it unless the
info is being double-checked for a prosecution - otherwise it would be
enough to simply repeat the reports at an interval (say, when a IMoJ
auditor pops by) and have the second occurrence be the confirmation.

>Offenses have to be fairly recent and notorious to get much
>attention from those who have to do the arresting and detaining.

  I've forgotten the Latin (from an economics course - go figure),
but "it does not follow". Unless the authorities are terribly over-
worked (e.g., our city police here) they should enact those warrants
they are told to (otherwise, you've got a fairly remarkable obedience
problem, right?) - and if navy/COACC/army etc. elements are that busy
arresting smugglers and pirates then the glut should be over before
too long.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1197
***********************************

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Traveller-digest    Thursday, November 26 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1198



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

re: Defenses against teleporters
Re: Amish in Space
Thanksgiving (USA)
Re: Mass combat system for Traveller
Off Topic:  last B5
Re: Off Topic: last B5 
Re: CG in G:T
Re: Off Topic: last B5
Re: Languages in Traveller
Traveller WebRing - NEW URL
Re: Small Traders
[none]
Laguages IMTU
Re Amish in Space & Languages
SS 3: Missiles
Re Gates, Wm, III
Languages in Traveller
Re: Looking for copies of computer games
Professional Violence (was: re: Amish in Space)
Re: Smuggling

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 00:41:33 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: re: Defenses against teleporters

Rob Prior wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
My explanation is that the teleporter _swaps_ with the contents of the
destination. Thus, if you teleport into solid rock, a solid rock
'sculpture' appears where you were, and you suffocate to death (unless, of
course, the rock was under pressure, in which case you might be crushed).

This neatly solves the air problem, without greatly changing teleporters'
abilities.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
It also lets a teleporter pop into the middle of a crowd of people, taking
big fatal chunks out of anyone his arm or leg happens to be
superimposed on. It also allows a teleporter who can jump twice
to take out a starship (port into the computer - not the computer room,
the _computer_ - wrecking it just by popping in). It allows a teleporter
to create a man-sized hole in a door so all his buddies can get
through.

I have memories of a Hero Games Champions player who bought
a mondo big killing attack, linked to his teleportation power - he'd
teleport into something, blowing it up in the process. That got old
pretty quick...I hope he didn't hold the eventual story-concealed
play balance adjustment against me. ;)

I don't like the idea of allowing a teleporter to pop into a place already
inhabited by anything substantial - what qualifies as "substantial"
is debatable, of course.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 00:40:23 EST
From: RSpake2064@aol.com
Subject: Re: Amish in Space

In a message dated 98-11-26 00:25:58 EST, you write:

<< Would an Amish planet in space be a pastoral utopia?
 
 It might be someone else's slave supply.
 
 Amish of northeastern USA are protected by the outside world they
 shun. State Troopers, Sheriffs, US Military forces, etc. are all there
 to protect the Amish from organized violence, whether it be gangs
 or foreign armies. An entire planet of non-violent, extreme turn-the-other
 cheekists would have no such protections, and might not be culturally
 able to hire them. Defenceless, in a galaxy that is frequently not
 a very nice place.
 
 I could almost see the Imperium/Terran Confederation/Whoever
 Amber Zoning such a world, and leaving a patrol squadron in orbit - 
 unless these Amish had left the Imperium behind.
 
 Walt Smith >>

actually i have thought of this as well.  i could see the Amish comeing to an
agreement with say..  the Terran Confedertion.  The Confederation would
protect their world(s) and establish tradeing ports tha twould keep trade
routes open (the amish might shun us, but they love our money)...

or possibly they would actually have another group of colonist with them on
the planet that are not Amish...  and not "turn-the-other-cheek" to boot.
they would trade with the Amish for food and other agriculturial needs...

richard 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 22:54:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Sword Worlder <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Thanksgiving (USA)

Thanksgiving Proclamation
George Washington
City of New York, October 3, 1789

Whereas it is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the
providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be
grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his
protection and favor, and Whereas both Houses of Congress
have by their joint Committee requested me "to recommend to
the People of the United States a day of public thanks-
giving and prayer to be observed by acknowledging with
grateful hearts the many signal favors of Almighty God,
especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to
establish a form of government for their safety and
happiness."

Now therefore I do recommend and assign Thursday the 26th
day of November next to be devoted by the People of these
States to the service of that great and glorious Being, who
is the beneficent Author of all the good that was, that is,
or that will be. That we may then all unite in rendering
unto him our sincere and humble thanks, for his kind care
and protection of the People of this country previous to
their becoming a Nation, for the signal and manifold
mercies, and the favorable interpositions of his
providence, which we experienced in the course and
conclusion of the late war, for the great degree of
tranquillity, union, and plenty, which we have since
enjoyed, for the peaceable and rational manner in which we
have been enabled to establish constitutions of government
for our safety and happiness, and particularly the national
One now lately instituted, for the civil and religious
liberty with which we are blessed, and the means we have of
acquiring and diffusing useful knowledge and in general for
all the great and various favors which he hath been pleased
to confer upon us.

And also that we may then unite in most humbly offering our
prayers and supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of
Nations and beseech him to pardon our national and other
transgressions, to enable us all, whether in public or
private stations, to perform our several and relative
duties properly and punctually, to render our national
government a blessing to all the People, by constantly
being a government of wise, just and constitutional laws,
discreetly and faithfully executed and obeyed, to protect
and guide all Sovereigns and Nations (especially such as
have shown kindness unto us) and to bless them with good
government, peace, and concord. To promote the knowledge
and practice of true religion and virtue, and the encrease
of science among them and Us, and generally to grant unto
all Mankind such a degree of temporal prosperity as he
alone knows to be best.




==
- ------------------------><>------------------------
IMTU 0601 tc++ tm !tn t4+ ?tg ru++ 3i pi ta+ he+ 
http://come.to/traveller

Visit the "Subsidized Merchant" - http://surf.to/traveller-trader 
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 02:24:59 EST
From: CPsyop@aol.com
Subject: Re: Mass combat system for Traveller

In a message dated 11/25/98 8:46:20 PM Pacific Standard Time,
Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca writes:

> SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> writes:
>  >FT is a starship minatures combat system written by Ground Zero Games in
>  >the UK (published by Geohex in the US). It is reasonably generic but does
>  >have its own universe. It's quite fast, fun and cheap.
>  
>  Cheap in England. It's a six quid game that sells here for $30 - so
>  someone is making a mucking huge profit!


$30?!? Sounds like it's your gaming shop that fleecing you.  Full Thrust
should retail for $18.  Same price for the expansion book More Thrust. 

Chris Ruhl
SGT USAR
301st PSYOP Company (Airborne)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 01:30:54 -0800
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Off Topic:  last B5

Is anybody as disappointed with the last episode--the last season for
that matter--of B5?

Kinda, blah, hasn't it been?  It's lost its greatness.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 03:03:47 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Off Topic: last B5 

> Is anybody as disappointed with the last episode--the last season for
> that matter--of B5?

I kinda liked the last episode, except they didn't tie up all the loose ends, 
like, whatever *did* happen to Lennier after he left the Rangers, and what 
happened to Lyta.  But as a last episode, it didn't have too many surprises.  
I liked it anyways.

> Kinda, blah, hasn't it been?  It's lost its greatness.

Gotta keep in mind, the 1000 year history episode was originally intended to 
be the last B5 episode, when they weren't sure they were going to be able to 
do the entire 5 year arc.  It blew a couple story lines ahead of its time.  
And so did the 2 movies they did.  River of Souls sucked bigtime.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 18:03:26
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: CG in G:T

>From: "Christopher B. Thrash" <thrash@io.com>
>Subject: Re: GT contra-gravity module
>
>I have, but you won't like it (portions of the description quoted from
>GURPS Vehicles, 2d Ed., p. 41, (c) 1996 by SJ Games):
>
>"Contragravity Module (TL 10, 0.5 dtons, 2.1 stons, MCr 0.33)
>
>Provides 3,000 stons of contra-gravity lift; in order to fly, the lift
>should exceed the vehicle's expected final weight (in all anticipated
>gravities).  Note that contra-gravity does not propel the vehicle, it only
>lifts it."
>
>Yes, I *do* mean stons (short tons, 2,000lbs each), not pounds: 
>contra-gravity is extremely cheap in VE2.

Contragravity is cheap under all versions of Traveller.

This C:G unit will allow very cheap streamlined atmosphere shuttles ... one
maneuver unit for actual thrust, then a couple of CG units to stop you
doing a good imitation of a brick.

Makes unstreamlined ships look better and better, really.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 02:24:30 -0800
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Off Topic: last B5

Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:

> I kinda liked the last episode, except they didn't tie up all the loose ends,
> like, whatever *did* happen to Lennier after he left the Rangers, and what
> happened to Lyta.  But as a last episode, it didn't have too many surprises.
> I liked it anyways.

It was touching in parts, but it was so slow...and definitely not what I
expected.  Remember in season one when Garibaldi is flashed forward in time to a
big fight on the station.  This happens in that episode where B4 pops up.  He
yells, to Sinclair, "I was born for this!".

That never happened--and they've been so good about details like that in other
episodes.

Also, what about all those flash forwards to Centauri Prime, with Londo on the
throne, Sheridan and Dlenn in Londo's jail, with G'Kar coming out to kill Londo?

That should have happened some time in the series.

And...I was so damn disappointed in the resolution to the Shadow War.  Almost four
years of build up, then boom, "We're not children anymore", "go off and play by
yourselves in the space between the galaxies."

They set it up like it was going to be this massive, quasi-religious fight.  You
know--the Shadows are Evil;  the Vorlons are Angels of Battle.

And, then it was nothing.

Disappointment.


> > Kinda, blah, hasn't it been?  It's lost its greatness.
>
> Gotta keep in mind, the 1000 year history episode was originally intended to
> be the last B5 episode, when they weren't sure they were going to be able to
> do the entire 5 year arc.  It blew a couple story lines ahead of its time.

Yes it did.  I know that.  But, the last episode was filmed in the middle of
season four before they knew TNT was going to pick them up.  The last episode we
saw tonight was always going to be the last episode--whether it showed on regular
broadcast or TNT.  JMS just moved it to the end of season 5.

Still, I didn't find much in season 5 to get that excited about.  How can season's
2, 3, and 4 be some of the most incredible TV I've ever watched, and season 5 be
so boring?


> And so did the 2 movies they did.  River of Souls sucked bigtime.

No kidding.  I liked "In the Beginning".  "Thirdspace" was OK--kind of an "Event
Horizon" rip-off, and I was kinda bored with it.  "River of Souls" stunk the high
heavens.  It was an effort to sit through it.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 17:17:24 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Languages in Traveller

At 16:43 25/11/98 -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:

>As for French and Latin being useless - well, French is hardly usless in
>Canada. Unless you mean "The French". (kidding!) As for Latin, to quote
>my English-as-a-Second-Langauge teaching wife, "You can't teach English
>until you understand Latin". For pidgin languages like English it really
>helps to have a good understanding of the base languages(s). Which is
>why you have High Vilani and Low/Standard/whatever Vilani.

Personally I don't think learning European or Classical languages is
pointless, but round here it is fashionable to encourage children to learn
Maori (Ok, there's some point to this seeing as it's the traditional
language of a good chunk of New Zealand) and Asian languages. IMO more
emphasis on English would be a much better idea, given the state of
illiteracy a lot of people in this country seem to inhabit.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 09:58:05 +0100
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=F6ran?= Damberg <damberg@hem.passagen.se>
Subject: Traveller WebRing - NEW URL

Hi all,

as you might know the main Traveller WebRing site has been missing from
the net  for the last two weeks. This is not the case any longer, it can
now be found at:

http://waystation.hypermart.net/webring/

/goeran

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 19:18:02
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Small Traders

>From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
>Subject: Re: mostly G:T
>
>Unfortunately, the shipping factor for the cargo handler has a contract with
>the Decafreighter corporation, and has guarantees that there _will_ be an
>outgoing transit at a particular time; thus, by the time the Arguvid
Dancer is
>insystem, the transit has already been contracted, and has been for the past
>couple of days (in fact, most likely Decafreighter, Inc, gives discounts on
>transit costs if you make your shipping arrangements in advance).

If we have to get that factory on line, then we pay the nice people at
Decafreighter their money, and we put the carton on the Arguvid Dancer.

Incidentally, in 1616 the Venetian Ambassador to Spain chose to take a
2-masted Provencal felucca (described in a 1632 account as 'the smallest of
all oarships') from Genoa to his post in Spain, and have his family go
later via a bigger ship (ref is Braudel, Meditteranean, p296).

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 23:35:59 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: [none]

>I'm a long time lurker, first time writer (well at least for a long time
>anyway) and have a question regarding densitometers. What do they measure?
>
>Ones first reaction would be (duh) density, but this is not a force unto
>itself. The MT ImpEncyc (sorry but I live in the Dark Ages) states that it
>is a spin off of gravitic technology that uses an objects natural gravity
>to measure its density. The problem with this is that often, if you are
>doing a search of space for an object, you don't know exactly the size of
>the object (hence its gravity signature).

so far, same as MTU.

>From first principles, not knowing the distance, volume or size of an
>object makes a scan near useless. However, once an object has been located
>(either by passive or active EMS), a lock by LADAR (or similar means) can
>be used to determine range, which (plugging into the formula) gives and
>accurate mass.

Here we differ immensely. Based upon the tables in MT Ref's, the system is
a penetrating sensor at all but the lowest TL's. IMTU, it maps the density
of the targeted object (in 3d) to a depth of the penetration rating
(Assuming that the up down axis is the axis of scan). I assume accuracy to
the depths shown of about far orbit... then it drops by x0.5 per band
beyond that.

IMTU, this works by measuring the separate gravitational inlfuences to
10^(-20) G's or more...

Then again, IMTU, to use a densitometer, you need to turn off your
T-plates, Inertial compensators, and artificial (except spin-derived)
gravity. That big a source so close overwhelms the poor sensor....

Also, a densitometer can, IMTU, be used for detection of a black-body, and,
given time for multiple location sampling, provide a bearing. (Fly three
legs at right angles to each other... for ex, 1 hour on axis Z, one hour on
axis Y, and one on axis X... this will define a spherical object 's
direction, and if the length of each leg is long enough, give it's rough
distance (as you measure curve shape and strength change). A densitomiter
has saved my PC's from death in  "Empty" hexes on the map more than once.

BTW, there is a "RealWorld Densitometer"... careful tracing of an orbital
body's orbital perterbations can reveal a very rough density map of the
body being orbited. IIRC, mars is being so mapped... again IIRC, resolution
is measured in kilometers, and pen is incredible... (fairly deep. IIRC,
they are attempting to figure out the rough core-mantle-crust ratios of
Mars by observing the satellites.) Earth is already being mapped this way.
More time and more objects to be observed is allowing a somewhat better
mapping, from what I've heard.

[snip]
>Thanks for the Bandwidth,
>
>Blair L-B

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:aramis@gci.net> Note: All other E-mail addresses for me expire by
the end of november 1998!
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
UTUP 0309 6-7779577-5-5-2
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 00:05:05 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Laguages IMTU

Ethan writes:
>ObTrav: How damn big would the ancient/dead language depatment of an
>Imperial university be? Way bigger than Latin and Greek I'll bet.

IMTU, you can measure the "Ivy-Factor" of a major Imperial Institution by
how many professors teach language courses other than Galanglic and the
local tongue(s).... IMTU, Uni of Regina at Regni has a staff of about 1000
professors, including the 30 at the JumpSpace Institute, and over 150
teaching "Dead or Dying" languages, including Geonee, Old High Vilani,
Greek, Latin, English (Olde, Middle, Victorian, Informational[our modern],
Stellar], Klingon, Spanish, a half dozen vargr archaics, Archaic aslan,
pre-terran Tl'Zedl (Sp? AKA Daryan), Norwegian, Sweedish, German, Russian,
Nederlander, Old Sylean, Middle Sylean (aka Cleon's sylean], Oinprynth.
Most of the Languages dept are fluent in 2 or 3 archaics, and 2 or so
moderns,, and teach 4 courses at a time, most teaching one in each language
and making the difference up with general ed histories and galanglic &
local language courses.

Still IMTU, U of Mora has but twenty, teaching only the most direct
descendant toungues of those spoken in the marches, and many prefer the URR
to UM, since the "Educational CHoice is better", even if UM has better
instructors (Average instuctor skill level is higher). This include most
PC's who've heard the bit.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:aramis@gci.net> Note: All other E-mail addresses for me expire by
the end of november 1998!
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
UTUP 0309 6-7779577-5-5-2
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 00:23:21 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re Amish in Space & Languages

Cathy posted:
>This is a common misconception. I live in Pennsylvania and have met quite a
>few Amish people, as well as mennonites.
>
>I moved here a couple years ago from California, and was quite curious about
>them and their culture, and I held a lot of the common misconceptions about
>them. So being a west coaster, I just walked up to a woman about my age, who
>had her children with her, and politely asked about their beliefs. She was
>very happy to share them with me, as has everyone since her been. I have
>spoken to numerous people about their culture and life style, and many of
>them are from different groups.

One of the wonderful things about living in alaska is the nearly total mix
of americana in Anchorage... people from everywhere in the country... and
many from beyond. While I've not personally met any practicing menonnites,
almish, or quakers, I've met many who've left for various reasons.... Even
ex-___ of most of the above groups are more than wiling to share their
experiences. They all seem to have a profound sense of "God will provide"
combined with "Let others do as they wish, we'll follow our way to god,
just please don't try to make us follow their ways." I met one lad, who,
until his 15th year, had never owned a shirt with buttons. Another had been
raised in a mixed environment, and while not barred from watching TV, never
had had access to one except through school chums. The one thing they all
seem to share is that each community's ordinum (or equivalent) sets its own
policies, approaches, and tech-levels.

Then again, I've also met a number of Russian Orthodox Old Believers...
(Alaska, as a US state for 50 years, and having been a Russian Colony until
the mid 19th C, has a lot more orthodox than one might think.) There are
towns where the whole of the town or village is labelled in Russian. It was
1987 before the state required english to be taught in the schools (Russian
Village, it would seem, was up til then conducting ALL courses in russian).

Languages survive encroachment in enclaves much better when they are linked
to strongly held religous beliefs or practices. So many of the (From what
I've read, Germanic Derived) communities of Amish & Mennonite by religious
isolation also continued to use the old language along with the old ways.
Alaskan Russian Orthodox who aren't OCA affiliated (And there are quite a
number who aren't, but it is dropping fast) often maintained russian as the
laguage of the faithful, as well as needing it to understand the edicts of
the muscovite synod.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:aramis@gci.net> Note: All other E-mail addresses for me expire by
the end of november 1998!
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
UTUP 0309 6-7779577-5-5-2
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 00:32:23 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: SS 3: Missiles

><<  Incidentally, "Special Supplement 3: Missiles in Traveller"
> (appeared in JTAS #21 as a pullout) comments that you can build missiles as
> big as you like, but weapons bigger than 50kg will not fit in standard
> racks.  They can only be fired from bays under the HG system.  >>

It also specifies that missiles are 10cm in diameter, and IIRC, 1m long.

Gotta Love those 6G, 18 G-burns of fuel, discretionary-burn unit, variable
trhust seekers. At least three turns of 6G, or more turns of less, and
usually a decent seeker head.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:aramis@gci.net> Note: All other E-mail addresses for me expire by
the end of november 1998!
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
UTUP 0309 6-7779577-5-5-2
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 23:51:23 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re Gates, Wm, III

>>
>>
>>PS. Any advice on how to loose the Furies on Bill Gates and the Windows NT
>>designers would also be appreciated.
>
>Still waiting for this...

Don't know about the furies, but document that their software's flaws have
cost you money by not performing as advertised, and find one of the class
action lawsuits for breach of promise, false advertisement, or some such...

Or find the back door password, and publicise it. (Just make CERTAIN NOBODY
can prove you've decompiled looking for it...).

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:aramis@gci.net> Note: All other E-mail addresses for me expire by
the end of november 1998!
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
UTUP 0309 6-7779577-5-5-2
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 11:00:15 +0000
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: Languages in Traveller

>lars@orplid.shnet.org (Lars Becker) wrote (in response to Marc?):


>> Geman (on the other hand) is spoken in Germany and ?
>Austria and Swizerland. Also look at Paul's and Gary's Article.


And also as a strong second language across much of Eastern Europe as I
discovered to my relief whilst travelling there.  For fairly obvious
reasons older folk spoke it better than the younger ones, but it wasn't
hard to find a German speaker on the streets of Gdansk for example.  (This
was some 10 years ago).

tc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 13:13:54 +0000 (GMT)
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Looking for copies of computer games

On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Don McKinney wrote:

> I'm looking for copies of MT1: The Zhodani Conspiracy and MT2: Quest for
> the Ancients, for the IBM PC.  Anyone who is willing to part with one,
> please e-mail me.
> 
> 
> DonM.

If anyone has another copy of MT2: Quest for the Ancients, I would be
interested too. Maybe if anyone across the pond had one and they wanted to
do a deal for maybe BITS products, we could work something out ?

Here's hoping

Ewan

	Ewan Quibell
	Data Communications Technician        The Game's afoot:
	Computer Centre                       Follow your spirit, and apon
	University of Brighton                  this charge
                                              Cry 'God for Harry, England,
	E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              and Saint George !'

                                                    Henry V 3:1
	#include<stddisclamer.h>                    W. Shakespeare

	My spelling is entierly due to dyslexia, typoes and poetic license

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 09:30:15 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Professional Violence (was: re: Amish in Space)

        Hi, Walt!

>Walt Smith
>(This is not intended as a slight against non-violent people, being
>something of one myself. I realize that non-violent people currently
>need the protection of dedicated, professionally violent people, and am 
>happy my society has some.)

        You are one of the only people I have ever met who understands this.
Being a part-time Violence Professional myself, it can be fustrating at
times to listen to folks who are non-violent and figure I/ my job is the
root of all thier problems...  As I say, I keep wishing for the day when
someone puts my whole job description outta buisness.  Until then.....
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 09:30:52 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Smuggling

At 10:37 PM 25/11/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
>>Subject: Re: Smuggling
>...
>>Slow communications means big headaches in trying to correlate
>>differing reports coming at different times by different routes.
>  
>  I'm not sure that this is a given, as the work I've done isn't really
>similar enough for me to say. We do know that these problems have been
>handled before without computer technologies, however.

        The Roman Empire, for example.  The local Governor was the Power,
and as long as the tax money kept flowing back to Rome with yearly reports,
then the Emperor didn't send a Legion in to find out why.  The local
Governor was backed by a local Garrison, usually a Cadre of Romans with the
infantry drawn from the local populace in exchange for Citizenship.  So, if
you wanted to oust the Governor, you had to beat the local Garrison in late
fall, and get organized to deal with the Legion sent to restore power in
late spring.
        To over-simplify, Masada is an example of what happens when you are
able to beat the Garrison and the Legion shows up.  I have always thought
that this would be more or less the way the 3i worked.  It's the model I use
for the UN administered Terran Sphere.

	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

		Dad, MIS Manager, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1198
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Traveller-digest    Thursday, November 26 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1199



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Jump-6 courier network
A Truly Twisted G:T Campaign Idea
Galactic 2.4 Tip for PCs
Re: Jump-6 Courier network
Re: Looking for copies of computer games
Re: Density (gearheads alert)
Re: Amish in Space and Violence
Re: Thanksgiving (USA)
Re: Off Topic: last B5
Re: Off Topic: last B5
Re: Thanksgiving (USA)
Semi-off topic...
Re: Off Topic: last B5
Re: Off Topic: last B5
Re: Imperium
[OT] FAO Bruce Macintosh
re: Anyone on the list in Carlisle
Re: Off Topic: last B5
Re: Hull Design - UN-DSN "County-Class" Strike Carrier, TL 11

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 16:34:26 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Jump-6 courier network

David P. Summers writes:

>Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:03:33 +0100 (MET), Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
>>>[List of why the X-boat network is J-4]
>>>- - The Imperium just doesn't want to shell out the bucks for jump-6.
> 
>>Why not? We're told that the Imperium is straining under the long
>>communication times between the core and the borders.
> 
>Are we told that the Imperium recognizes this strain?

Yes. That's why the X-boat network was created in the first place.

>Would a 33% increase in time be enough to make a significant difference
>in this strain (compared to the costs involved)?

It seems very likely to me. YMMV.

>Is the strain related to X-boat speeds at all?  (What method do governmental
>directives, orders, etc. get sent?)

You've put your finger With unerring precision on the point I've been trying
to make for the last three or four posts. We ARE told that all messages goes
through the X-boat system (with the in MT introduced Emperor's secret network
being an exeption). I'm not disputing that. What I am questioning is the
sense of letting the strings of government go at the average rate of 2.6
parsecs/week when an alternative system with an average speed of 5 parsecs
or more exists? _Already_ exists?
 
>>Not to mention that the Imperium DO shell out the bucks for jump-6. It is
>>canonical that the Imperial Navy have jump-6 couriers. Why not use them,
>>at least for official business?
> 
>Because they have solved the problem for themselves but don't want to spend
>the money that it would take to make them generally available for all
>messages?

What money? 5 credits for a message chip? If the IN is sending regular
couriers back and forth between the Admiralty and the various fleet HQs,
you don't need anything else to expand it to carry important government
messages. You could maybe convince me that the amount of sheer bumpf
produced by the colonial administrations would overload the memory banks
of a standard fleet courier, but only if the amount of information they
passed along to each other was truly staggering  --  the kind of information
you so vehemently deny that they would bother to pass along  --  I doubt it
myself, because you can get a lot of information into vary little space
even today, and goodness knows what they will be able to do at TL 15, but,
assuming for purposes of argument that that really was the case, a simple
priority scheme would see all the important orders and reports go by naval
courier and the rest following after by X-boat.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"Facts are stubborn things, but not half so stubborn as fallacies."
                - Stella Maynard in "Anne of the Island"

 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 09:35:35 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: A Truly Twisted G:T Campaign Idea

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- --------------F06EB35055EB52F826AFDD67
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There is a Web site that features a random GURPS campaign generator. 
Basically, it select three GUPRP titles at random, and the would-be
referee gets to write a description of a campaign using all three
books.  This is one I submitted.

BTW, the URL for the site is:

http://www.io.com/~slocum/cgi-bin/campaigngen/campaign.cgi

Enjoy!

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/
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Received: from geocities.com (mail2.geocities.com [209.1.224.30])
	by premier1.premier.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA10297
	for <wombat@premier.net>; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 09:28:59 -0600 (CST)
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Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 09:28:48 -0600
Message-Id: <199811261528.JAA23994@www-01.io.com>
To: colverber@geocities.com
From: slocum@io.com
Subject: Campaign Entry

Your GURPS Campaign Entry has been noted by the Illuminated Masters.  Their agents will dispose of this information in the proper manner. Thank you.

    By the way, you wrote...

Campaign Name: The SPURIOUS Incident
GURPS Books Used: Technomancer / Traveller / Werewolf: The Apocalypse
Description: IISS SPURIOUS, a SULEIMAN-class Scout/Courier, was found derelict in the Inchin system (0936, District 268).  Flight recorder data indicate that, due to a computer malfuntion,  SPURIOUS initiated jump withing the atmosphere of Singer (0940, District 268).  Upon investigation, the players find that SPURIOUS' jump caused a Hellstorm, unleashing magic in this TL6 world.  And some of those Vargr don't look quite right....  (And you thought Singer was Amber Zone _before_!)
Name: Colonel Verber
Email: <colverber@geocities.com>




- --------------F06EB35055EB52F826AFDD67--

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 09:38:49 -0600
From: David Smart <warlock@imagin.net>
Subject: Galactic 2.4 Tip for PCs

For those of you who use Galactic 2.4 for mapping your TU and
managing your assorted TU documents, you can imbed graphics
and format your text in any document simply by changing your
text editor and text reader to use WordPad. Just change
the editor/reader values to be "start wordpad". This will
automatically open any linked doc into Wordpad, allowing you
to use any of Wordpad's functions.

This scheme works equally well with Notepad; simply change
"wordpad" above to "notepad". Of course, Notepad doesn't have
all the fancy formatting functions of Wordpad but it easier
to use in some ways than Gal2.4's "vi" editor.

Thanks to Jeff Zeitlin for suggesting how to do this.

I've confirmed (so far, at least) that Gal2.4's menuing
calls Note/Wordpad editors with no problems. Jim V., you've
done one *incredible* job!!!

A couple of caveats about Windows' editors are in order, though.
1) Obviously, if you're going to use Word pad and want to share
your files, recipients must also use Wordpad. Notepad files are
still .txt format and easily opened by Gal2.4's default editor.

2) It has been my experience that Wordpad under Win95 will always
ask you if you want to convert the file to Wordpad format every
time a non-Wordpad txt file is opened, requiring you to select
"No" if you don't want the file converted. This can get pretty
annoying. Wordpad under Win98 *doesn't* do this; I don't know
if NT has this issue or not.

Keep on Travelling, folks!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:38:07 -0800
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Jump-6 Courier network

Walter G. Smith wrote:

> Joe Petit wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> You know, the Imperium could simply pull in its borders rather than pour
> cash on the communications problem.  Its a diminishing returns problem.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> Not an uncommon tactic, historically, for empires with unstable borders.
>
> The history supplement in the _Imperium_ game gave me the idea that
> the Ziru Sirka was doing just that on the Terran border for a while -
> the local governor was trading marginal systems for periods of peace.

I was just telling somebody else that communication and regulatory fees go
up with the square of the planets while taxation is directly proportional.
Eventually, you'll hit a boundary where regulating a planet costs more than
you can collect in taxes.  At that point it is economically unfeasible.  The
collapses are examples of involuntary border reductions.

I suppose with all the imperial clones running around, the best method would
be to expand in one direction until you reach that boundary.  Then send your
clone out there and undergo imperial mitosis, creating two empires run by
the same (cloned) emperor. I suppose that is the de facto Imperial model
with the Archdukes controlling their domains.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 08:53:48 -0700
From: Sanders <timmon@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Looking for copies of computer games

At 01:13 PM 11/26/98 +0000, you wrote:
>On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Don McKinney wrote:
>
>> I'm looking for copies of MT1: The Zhodani Conspiracy and MT2: Quest for
>> the Ancients, for the IBM PC.  Anyone who is willing to part with one,
>> please e-mail me.
>> 
>> 
>> DonM.
>
>If anyone has another copy of MT2: Quest for the Ancients, I would be
>interested too. Maybe if anyone across the pond had one and they wanted to
>do a deal for maybe BITS products, we could work something out ?
>
>Here's hoping

I saw two copies of MT2 in a local used-software store yesterday. They were
asking $22 each (kinda steep I think). If either of you are interested, let
me know and I could pick them up next Monday.

L8r,
Paul

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:34:21 +0000
From: Martin Hardgrave <martin@deira.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Density (gearheads alert)

In message <Pine.SOL.4.02.9811251517570.10867-100000@alya.utu.fi>, Eppu
Tuominen <eptitu@utu.fi> writes
> (BTW any _real_ scientists on the list, don't crucify me for this. I
>know very well G-Waves are a subject of heated debate in the real world.)

Yes, and if you detected nanometer (10e-9 m) sized changes I'd be
worried - aren't they building miles-long detectors just to measure 10e-
20 m sized changes?
- -- 
Martin Hardgrave

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:55:24 -0500
From: "Catherine Tannenbaum" <cat@perkworks.com>
Subject: Re: Amish in Space and Violence

We have thought of this and have some ideas... will show later.
Even here in the US the Amish won't appear in court. There are Organizations
of non amish who decide to go to court and protect their rights. This is
obviously necessary for them to maintain their culture anywhere in the
universe, and often these groups outside of what we know as the US may have
to act more aggressively. There are always people willing to press their own
rules upon those who do not believe the same but "turn the other cheek". In
a situation like this there would definately be such a group to look after
them, there are enough groups out there just looking for a way to represent
the meek, oppressed or downtrodden.
Cathy

- -----Original Message-----
From: Walter G. Smith <smithw@hartwick.edu>
To: 'traveller@mpgn.com' <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 12:30 AM
Subject: re: Amish in Space


>Would an Amish planet in space be a pastoral utopia?
>
>It might be someone else's slave supply.
>
>Amish of northeastern USA are protected by the outside world they
>shun. State Troopers, Sheriffs, US Military forces, etc. are all there
>to protect the Amish from organized violence, whether it be gangs
>or foreign armies. An entire planet of non-violent, extreme turn-the-other
>cheekists would have no such protections, and might not be culturally
>able to hire them. Defenceless, in a galaxy that is frequently not
>a very nice place.
>
>I could almost see the Imperium/Terran Confederation/Whoever
>Amber Zoning such a world, and leaving a patrol squadron in orbit -
>unless these Amish had left the Imperium behind.
>
>"It'll be interesting to see how long the meek get to keep the Earth
>once they inherit it." (a quote, though the source escapes me)
>
>Walt Smith
>
>(This is not intended as a slight against non-violent people, being
>something of one myself. I realize that non-violent people currently
>need the protection of dedicated, professionally violent people, and am
>happy my society has some.)
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 08:26:49 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Thanksgiving (USA)

Sword Worlder wrote:
> 
> Thanksgiving Proclamation
> George Washington
> City of New York, October 3, 1789

That's very nice and all, but really doesn't apply to those of us not in your
country. For instance, here in Canada we celebrate Thanksgiving in October.

So, since this has no relevance to Traveller, or to non-American subscribers of
the TML, why is it here?

Cheers!
Erwin

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 16:22:38 GMT
From: johnl@vnet.net (John Lansford)
Subject: Re: Off Topic: last B5

On Thu, 26 Nov 1998 02:24:30 -0800, you wrote:

>It was touching in parts, but it was so slow...and definitely not what I
>expected.  Remember in season one when Garibaldi is flashed forward in time to a
>big fight on the station.  This happens in that episode where B4 pops up.  He
>yells, to Sinclair, "I was born for this!".
>
>That never happened--and they've been so good about details like that in other
>episodes.

It never happened because it was an alternate history that Sinclair
avoided by taking B4 back in time to assist the Minbari in their
shadow war.

>Also, what about all those flash forwards to Centauri Prime, with Londo on the
>throne, Sheridan and Dlenn in Londo's jail, with G'Kar coming out to kill Londo?
>
>That should have happened some time in the series.

It happened in War Without End. Why show it yet again? Besides, we saw
the aftermath; a happy Emperor Vir cavorting with his wives, without
any Drakh influence to be seen anywhere.

>And...I was so damn disappointed in the resolution to the Shadow War.  Almost four
>years of build up, then boom, "We're not children anymore", "go off and play by
>yourselves in the space between the galaxies."
>
>They set it up like it was going to be this massive, quasi-religious fight.  You
>know--the Shadows are Evil;  the Vorlons are Angels of Battle.
>
>And, then it was nothing.
>
>Disappointment.

If you had that attitude, I guess then you could be disappointed. It
wasn't "evil vs good". That was clearly pointed out before the war's
resolution. More like "order vs chaos" instead.

>Still, I didn't find much in season 5 to get that excited about.  How can season's
>2, 3, and 4 be some of the most incredible TV I've ever watched, and season 5 be
>so boring?

Perhaps because you didn't get to see huge fleets of ships blowing up
each other?

For a unique TV series, I think JMS did an absolutely fantastic job of
piecing together a five year long program with a beginning, a middle
and a conclusion.

John Lansford

The unofficial I-26 Construction Webpage:
http://users.vnet.net/lansford/a10/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 09:47:43 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@shell.rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Off Topic: last B5

 
>>And so did the 2 movies they did.  River of Souls sucked bigtime.
> 
>No kidding. I liked "In the Beginning". "Thirdspace" was OK--kind of an "Event
>Horizon" rip-off, and I was kinda bored with it. "River of Souls" stunk 
>the high heavens.  It was an effort to sit through it.
 
In the beginning broke too much, IMO. The whole blackstar thing
makes no sense at all put in the context that the Minbari drive
around killing mission-killed ships. Using a distress call was made
(in the real episodes) to sound like what it sounds like--you're
killing people coming to save you. Using it to get the enemy to come
finish you off, then killing them shouldn't have lost Sheridan any
sleep at all. Made no sense at all.

ObTrav: What happens to disabled ships in traveller? In our games we
always played that disabled ships became non-combatants. The winning
side would pick up survivors, and they were typically well treated.
(Imperial/Zho anyway). A distress call made from a damaged ship
would basically disqualify it from combat--using it as a lure would
be a serious war crime.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 09:25:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Sword Worlder <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Thanksgiving (USA)

- ---Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com> wrote:
> So, since this has no relevance to Traveller, or to non-American
subscribers of the TML, why is it here?
> 

Now it's time for you to go pick on the B5 posts.



==
- ------------------------><>------------------------
IMTU 0601 tc++ tm !tn t4+ ?tg ru++ 3i pi ta+ he+ 
http://come.to/traveller

Visit the "Subsidized Merchant" - http://surf.to/traveller-trader 
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:34:29 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Semi-off topic...

Good news from Nasa!

DS-1's ion drive has been restarted successfully!

see:  http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/releases/98/ds1engine.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 09:43:18 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Off Topic: last B5

At 02:24 AM 11/26/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:
>
>> I kinda liked the last episode, except they didn't tie up all the loose
>>ends, like, whatever *did* happen to Lennier after he left the Rangers, and 
>>what happened to Lyta.  But as a last episode, it didn't have too many 
>>surprises.

Well, Sleeping in Light was meant to tie up the threads of the
Sheridan/Delenn storyline.  "Crusade" debuts in January, and we'll probably
see characters like Lennier and Lyta at various points in that series.

>It was touching in parts, but it was so slow...and definitely not what I
>expected.  Remember in season one when Garibaldi is flashed forward in
time >to a big fight on the station.  This happens in that episode where B4
pops 
>up.  He yells, to Sinclair, "I was born for this!".

That was a timeline where B4 *didn't* go back to fight the Shadows 1000
years ago.

>Also, what about all those flash forwards to Centauri Prime, with Londo on
>the throne, Sheridan and Dlenn in Londo's jail, with G'Kar coming out to 
>kill Londo?

Londo becomes Emperor in 2262.  In 2281, Vir Cotto is Emperor.  "In the
Beginning" shows Londo on the throne with Sheridan and Delenn as his
prisoners, talking about how their son is safe.  Since the Keeper that
Londo presented to Sheridan and Delenn was suppossed to be presented to
David when he turns sixteen, we can assume that the Londo/G'Kar Celebrity
Deathmatch takes place around 2271.

>And...I was so damn disappointed in the resolution to the Shadow War.
>Almost four years of build up, then boom, "We're not children anymore", "go 
>off and play by yourselves in the space between the galaxies."
>
>They set it up like it was going to be this massive, quasi-religious
fight. > You know--the Shadows are Evil;  the Vorlons are Angels of Battle.

But they're not!  The Vorlons and Shadow weren't good or evil, they were
two obsessed races that had lost sight of their goals in favor of
advocating their views.


- --

+--------------------------------------+
|Douglas E. Berry    dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/     |
+--------------------------------------+
| "In the long run luck is given       |
|  only to the efficient."             |
|     -Helmuth von Moltke, German Army |
+--------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 09:49:53 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Off Topic: last B5

At 09:47 AM 11/26/98 -0700, you wrote:

>In the beginning broke too much, IMO. The whole blackstar thing
>makes no sense at all put in the context that the Minbari drive
>around killing mission-killed ships. Using a distress call was made
>(in the real episodes) to sound like what it sounds like--you're
>killing people coming to save you. Using it to get the enemy to come
>finish you off, then killing them shouldn't have lost Sheridan any
>sleep at all. Made no sense at all.

Remember that Delenn had ordered "no mercy" at the beginning of the war..
so the Black star was just following orders coming back to kill Sheridan's
cruiser.

Part of the reason the Minbari were so upset about Sheridan being appointed
to command B5 was his reputation as the Starkiller.

>ObTrav: What happens to disabled ships in traveller? In our games we
>always played that disabled ships became non-combatants. The winning
>side would pick up survivors, and they were typically well treated.
>(Imperial/Zho anyway). A distress call made from a damaged ship
>would basically disqualify it from combat--using it as a lure would
>be a serious war crime.

Depends on the opponent.  The Zhodani are honorable about respecting ships
that broadcast "disabled in distress" and will pickup lifepods.  Many Vargr
raiders will not.  Sword Worlders have a nasty habit of finishing off
crippled ships.
- --

+--------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net  |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/    |
+--------------------------------------+
| "Oh, My God.. they killed STREPHON!  | 
|  You Bastards!!!!                    |
|                -Grand Admiral Kyle   |
+--------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 22:51:15 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Imperium

"Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au> wrote:

>Hang on.  Get a map of the Ziru Sirka.  Turn it ninety degrees, so Terra is
>on the right hand side.  Compare with a map of Russia.
>
>Now, what was that about Siberia, again?

Unfortunately, Imperium's map only reaches Moscow... it ends around Dingir
in the Rim!

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 21:47:34 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: [OT] FAO Bruce Macintosh

Bruce -

FYI these are the messages I'm getting.

Dom

PS Apologies for the bandwidth waste.

>Envelope-to: dom@cybergoths.u-net.com
>From: Mail Delivery System <Mailer-Daemon@u-net.com>
>To: dom@cybergoths.u-net.com
>Subject: Warning: message 0ziMmW-0001Wr-00 delayed
>Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:03:20 +0000
>
>This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.
>
>A message that you sent has not yet been delivered to all its recipients
>after more than 24 hours on the queue on mserv1b.u-net.net.
>
>The message identifier is:     0ziMmW-0001Wr-00
>The date of the message is:    Tue, 24 Nov 1998 07:21:51 +0000
>The subject of the message is: Re: MCS
>
>The address to which the message has not yet been delivered is:
>
>  bmac@astro.ucla.edu
>
>No action is required on your part. Delivery attempts will continue for
>some time, and this message will be repeated at intervals if the message
>remains undelivered. Eventually the mail delivery software will give up,
>and when that happens, the message will be returned to you.

>Envelope-to: dom@cybergoths.u-net.com
>From: Mail Delivery System <Mailer-Daemon@u-net.com>
>To: dom@cybergoths.u-net.com
>Subject: Warning: message 0zhgbz-0003yX-00 delayed
>Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 21:00:19 +0000
>
>This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.
>
>A message that you sent has not yet been delivered to all its recipients
>after more than 72 hours on the queue on mserv1b.u-net.net.
>
>The message identifier is:     0zhgbz-0003yX-00
>The date of the message is:    Sun, 22 Nov 1998 10:51:09 +0000
>The subject of the message is: Re: MCS
>
>The address to which the message has not yet been delivered is:
>
>  bmac@astro.ucla.edu
>
>No action is required on your part. Delivery attempts will continue for
>some time, and this message will be repeated at intervals if the message
>remains undelivered. Eventually the mail delivery software will give up,
>and when that happens, the message will be returned to you.


- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 22:49:12 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Anyone on the list in Carlisle

JHorner443@aol.com wrote:

>I am looking for new players / GM's in the Carlisle area of Cumbria (UK),
>anyone out there!

There's an active group in Whitehaven. I think you can get their details
from Robinson's Models in Whitehaven. They may know of other groups in the
area.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 13:03:23 -0800
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Off Topic: last B5

John Lansford wrote:

> It never happened because it was an alternate history that Sinclair
> avoided by taking B4 back in time to assist the Minbari in their
> shadow war.

Where'd you get that?  I have the whole B5 series, in its entirety, on tape, watched it
more than once, and I didn't get that out of it.

If you can name the episode, I'll go back and check it out.  You're probably referring
to either the B4 episode in the first season, or the B4 two-parter in the third season.



> It happened in War Without End. Why show it yet again? Besides, we saw
> the aftermath; a happy Emperor Vir cavorting with his wives, without
> any Drakh influence to be seen anywhere.

Right, and they never explained what Sheridan was doing there in prison.  We never saw
exactly what was happening between G'Kar and Londo.

There's too much set up there for it to be guess work.


> If you had that attitude, I guess then you could be disappointed. It
> wasn't "evil vs good". That was clearly pointed out before the war's
> resolution. More like "order vs chaos" instead.

Yes, I got the Law and Chaos thing--the resolution still was a big let down.

> For a unique TV series, I think JMS did an absolutely fantastic job of
> piecing together a five year long program with a beginning, a middle
> and a conclusion.

First season sucked.  Seasons 2, 3, and 4 are the best viewing experience I've ever had
with a televison program.  Season 5 was a snoozer.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 18:06:31 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Hull Design - UN-DSN "County-Class" Strike Carrier, TL 11

Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:

><< Magazine	400 Missiles	40.00
> 		 		40.00 				 >>
>
>I have a question. I have HG2. There are no rules for magazines (pity...).
>Where did you get this data from?

MT has sizes for Missiles. I use them for HG as it is similar.

Each displaced 0.1kL - with a 13.5kL scale to the dT. So you get 135
missiles per dT. Or 2.7 battery rounds for a 50dT bay. ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1199
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