Subj:	TRAVELLER digest 305
Date:	95-06-02 21:54:02 EDT
From:	traveller@mpgn.com
To:	traveller@mpgn.com

From:	traveller@mpgn.com
Sender:	traveller@mpgn.com
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To:	traveller@mpgn.com (Multiple recipients of list)
			    TRAVELLER Digest 305

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Deep Static Cloak
	by "Sinbad Sam" <sinbad@metronet.com>
  2) An Apology
	by cs5025@wlv.ac.uk (L.T.Bryant)
  3) Vampire fleets
	by cs5025@wlv.ac.uk (L.T.Bryant)
  4) TRAVELLER AUCTION-ROUND 1 UPDATE
	by Profwelks@aol.com
  5) Re: TRAVELLER digest 303
	by aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
  6) Re: Deep Static Cloak
	by "Brendan O'Donovan" <Brendan@odonovan.demon.co.uk>
  7) Comments: Vampire Fleets
	by jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (JEFF ZEITLIN)
  8) Just Detected: _Vampire Fleets_
	by bonn0015@flipper.itlabs.umn.edu (STEVEN M BONNEVILLE)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:          Thu, 1 Jun 1995 21:57:24 +0000
From: "Sinbad Sam" <sinbad@metronet.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Deep Static Cloak
Message-ID: <199506020348.AA13768@metronet.com>


> The Interstellarms Deep Static Cloak
> 
--------Snip Material Excluded----------
First If you try multiple broadband jammers in formation in present 
technology you will be dead and long forgotten.  Present sensor
technology has the ability to discrimate between multiple jammers of 
the same type. That means that the sensor can pick out each separate 
jammer. Then you will get a ARM sent down your throat so to speak. A 
good percentage of todays missiles and sensors have the ability to 
"Track On Jam", which makes them even more accurate. Your convoy 
would be moving blind to anything outside objects (read ships, 
missiles, and debris). Even if I could not discrimate your jammers, I 
could send a missile with a large(read 500Mt+ Therm Nuc Warhead) 
along your path and detonate within proximity of your convoy. Your 
ship would not be able to detect it until after it detonated. In the 
present TNE rules jammers are still a joke. There are essentially 
three types of jammers, but the TNE jamming rules only take into 
effect one type of jammer. You have illustrated a very good example 
of the limited implementation that TNE uses jamming for. If you wish 
to go for the TNE rules your use has a very good uses. But have 
discarded and put into use my own house rules that do not have a 
limited jamming techniques.
> -- 
> Brendan O'Donovan
> 
Cheers,
Sinbad Sam
sinbad@metronet.com 
> ------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 13:29:47 +0100 (BST)
From: cs5025@wlv.ac.uk (L.T.Bryant)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: An Apology
Message-ID: <m0sHVrH-0003tmC@ccub.wlv.ac.uk>

Thank  you for explaining abought the Crunch  gun,  hearing  from
the designer of the wepon is a great releaf, Now that i know  the
story behind the wepon i have no porblems using it.
	My apologys for the slight ( if it was taken as such)
the  resoning  behind the post was to follow up  my  request  for
some  one to check the design of the TL13 gauss pistol from  RCEG
as  my version with the same capacity etc was over  weight,  size
and had a higher recoil. 
	
Yours sincerly
Lawrence Bryant 
-- 
oh rose thou art sick
               the invisible worm that flys by night.....STEEL


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 13:32:04 +0100 (BST)
From: cs5025@wlv.ac.uk (L.T.Bryant)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Vampire fleets
Message-ID: <m0sHVtV-0003tmC@ccub.wlv.ac.uk>

Greeting all
	Acording to a freind Vampire fleets is out in the UK  and
a  gift  for  all you who wanted the Robot design  rules  its  in
there,  along  with a lot of stuf that i hope to have a  look  at
over the next few days . ( as i hope hell let me borow it.)

	Bye again
Lawrence Bryant
-- 
oh rose thou art sick
               the invisible worm that flys by night.....STEEL


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 11:20:40 -0400
From: Profwelks@aol.com
To: xboat@MPGN.COM, traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: TRAVELLER AUCTION-ROUND 1 UPDATE
Message-ID: <950602112039_19823209@aol.com>

As stated before, the rules are:
1. This auction will continue until midnight of June 10. I had to shorten the
time due to a change in my schedule at work and with family. This should not
be a hardship on anybody.
2. Bids should be in US funds in whole dollars.
3. I reserve the right to not sell if bids are unjustifiably low.
4. Buyer pays shipping. Also, if a winning bid doesn't respond, I will inform
the next highest bidder they are a winner (by default).

HERE ARE ROUND 1 BIDS: Listed are highest bids for the items.

The whole inventory of 38 booklets may be purchased for (1 bid @$150)
Rules ($5 minimum bid)
  [1-Characters and Combat}
  [2-Starships                    }The boxed rules have a $30 bid.
  [3-Worlds and Adventures}
  4-Mercenary 1 bid @$5
  5-High Guard (1 1979 ed., 1 1980 ed.)  1 bid @$10 for 79 ed./1 bid
              for 80 ed. @$5
Supplements: ($5 min bid) 
  1-1001 Characters NB
  2-Animal Encounters (1 bid@$3)
  3-The Spinward Marches (3 bids @$5)
  4-Citizens of the Imperium NB
  5-Lightning Class Cruisers 1 bid @$5
  6-76 Patrons (1 bid @$5)
  7-Traders & Gunboats 3 bids@$5
  8-Library Data (A-M) (1 bid @$5)
Adventures: ($5 min bid)
  1-The Kinunir (1 bid @$5)
  2-Research Station Gamma (1 bid @$5)
  3-Twilight's Peak (1 bid@$7)
  4-Leviathan NB
  5-Trillion Credit Squadron ($1 bid@$7)
  Double Adventure 4-Marooned/Marooned Alone NB
Other:
  Azhanti High Lighting (combat rules) (2 bids@$5)
Striker Basic Rules, Advanced Rules, & Equipment (1 bid @$20)
  Snapshot Rules (2 bids @$5)
  Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society-all are near mint
     Numbers 1 (1 bid@$15)
      3 (1 bid@$7)
      5 (1 bid@$7)
      8 (1 bid@$5)
      9 (1 bid@$5)
      10 (1 bid@$5)
      11 (1 bid @$5)
Paranoia Press: ($5 min bid each) 
  SORAG  1 bid @$10                          
  Scouts & Assassins  1 bid @$10        
  Merchants & Merchandise 1 bids@$10
FASA:
  Action Aboard (2 copies) 2 bids@$5
  Uragyad'n of the Seven Pillars 2 bids@$5

Total separate bids would bring $221, so this is the minimum bid for the lot.
We will proceed to round 2 and I plan to post results next week, around June
5. The Striker books are in the box with the combat tables. The Traveller
box is worn, with a split in one side. All the books are in excellent
condition, some have
faded edges of pages, but otherwise suffer nothing other than shelf wear. 

Thanks,

Mike:)






------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jun 95 18:20 BST-1
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Cc: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 303
Message-ID: <memo.696700@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <199506010129.VAA06860@Ambassador.MPGN.COM>


  > From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> 
  > Subject: Tech level increases 
  >  
  > Andrew Boulton comments: 
  > > One point you should bear in mind is that the extremes of the TL
  > > scale correspond to longer periods of time than in the middle. ie
  > > it took Terra thousands of years to go from TL 0 to 1, whereas it
  > > only took a decade to go from 7 to 8. 
  >  
  > Ah, Andrew, you've just pushed one of my pet Traveller buttons. You
  > and Mr. Watters both make the same huge mistake: You ignore the
  > difference between discovering new technology and applying it. 

  > With the
  > exception of the score of interdicted worlds EVERY SINGLE WORLD HAS
  > ACCESS TO TL 15 _KNOWLEDGE_. The Imperium has been solidly TL 15 for
  > centuries. Even the poorest world would have had the money to pay
  > for a set of basic textbooks (As a matter of fact I believe that the
  > Imperium actually gave away technological info for free  -  or am
  > I thinking of a variant article somewhere?). So why aren't they all
  > TL 15? One reason is that they voluntarily restricted themselves to
  > a lower tech. That's fine for explaining the odd pre- industrial
  > world, but I don't think it will work for more than a few. The other
  > possible reason is economic. They can't afford it. It follows from
  > this that any change in TL (with the possible exception of the change
  > from TL 15 to 16) depends on how the planet has done financially over
  > the past 80 years. 
  
Agreed, up to a point. Even when they haven't actually gone up a TL, worlds
will replace a lot of equipment every year (especially the military). A
lot of this will be out of date, but still usable, and often it's cheaper
to give it away than to dismantle/recycle/bury it yourself. Even a world
that's done pretty badly might get hold of this, if it was conveniently
close to a higher-tech one.

  > From: "David A. Nelson" <34TYHPE@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> To:
  > Subject: Help 
  >  
  > I ran the adventure "The Once and Future Emperor" and in the course
  > of the game one of my players got ahold of a hand fusion gun used
  > by one of the characters. One problem: I can't find any stats for
  > this weapon! Has anyone built this weapon with FF&S? If so, could
  > you post the stats? Thanks! 

I had a play around with this - the main problem was that the thing was
too light, so the recoil was enormous, (I fixed this by just bolting on
an extra kg or two of metal). I'll try to remember where I put the stats...
 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 18:19:23 GMT
From: "Brendan O'Donovan" <Brendan@odonovan.demon.co.uk>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Deep Static Cloak
Message-ID: <20@odonovan.demon.co.uk>

Some valid criticisms of my design,
> > The Interstellarms Deep Static Cloak
> > 
> --------Snip Material Excluded----------
> First If you try multiple broadband jammers in formation in present 
> technology you will be dead and long forgotten.  Present sensor
> technology has the ability to discrimate between multiple jammers of 
> the same type. That means that the sensor can pick out each separate 
> jammer. Then you will get a ARM sent down your throat so to speak. A 

The ARMs would be significant threat to the drones, I agree. The price of
an area jammer makes a disposable approach uneconomical, so instead we need
to increase their survivability. They are already designed like spaceships,
so it would not be hard to add on anti missile lasers, or even a sandcaster,
even though this would increase the size of the installation, probably to
around a 100 ton bay. Tracking incoming missiles could be tricky, though. 
(Better idea:)
As I understand it (although my knowledge is patchy)
modern ARMs have little trouble tracking active targets, and some have target
memory if the transmitter shuts down. However, as far as I know, they don't
cope so well if the target shuts down and moves out of the way. If, say, 
twenty drones were used, only half would need to be active to maintain the
cloak. This would mean that drones could shut down in turn, make a small
evasion burn, and then come back on line. The time between these shutdowns
could be as little as a minute or less. This would make it much harder to
shoot these things down with an ARM, as the chances are that the target could
move outside the seeker head's field of view inactive. The extra reaction
mass needed for this evasion maneuvering would increase the volume of the
drone and decrease its endurance, but it could still work this way.
My use of 'formation' in my original description was unfortunate, I just
liked
the mental image. The above describes something which is definitely not 
formation flying.

> "Track On Jam", which makes them even more accurate. Your convoy 
> would be moving blind to anything outside objects (read ships, 
> missiles, and debris). Even if I could not discrimate your jammers, I 
> could send a missile with a large(read 500Mt+ Therm Nuc Warhead) 
> along your path and detonate within proximity of your convoy. Your 
> ship would not be able to detect it until after it detonated. In the 

I think my use of 'formation' has hidden part of my original intention. 
The ship is free to maneuver and hide anywhere within the cloak, which is an 
area of space 90,000km in diameter. The chance of hitting the cloaked ship
would 
be minimal with most nuclear warheads. To stand a chance of doing some
damage, 
you need a warhead with a destruction radius in the order of 10,000km.
Although
FFS doesn't have warheads this big, it is possible to get a very rough
figure:

Destruction radius is around 42*sqrt(Yield kt) for the larger warheads.
It is more than this for the smaller ones, so if anything, this will 
underestimate the yield necessary.
We want a destruction radius of 10,000,000m. This gives a required yield of
50,000,000,000kt, or 50 million Megatons. This warhead alone would cost
500 million megacredits. If you've got a warhead this big, then forget the
supply convoy to the military base, nuke the entire planet with the base on
instead! 

So there we have it, bigger, more expensive and less effective than
I had hoped, but still (just about) possible.
Or course, as I know nothing about military hardware, there could well be
something wrong with these solutions, feel free to correct me.

This could be even more interesting used to cloak a planet. Jammers could be
put in deep sites, each linked to several antennae to reduce vulnerability to
ARM attack. A planetary economy could also afford this sort of system.
It would, however, ruin TV reception, everything would need to be done with
fibre optics, and possibly Laser relays, which could probably avoid most
interference from jamming (as far as I understand it, tight beam
communications
can still work under jamming, in space the problem is knowing where to point
your transmitter if you can't achieve sensor locks).
Why would you want to do this to your lovely planet? I can suggest three 
reasons:
A/To hide Naval assests on a desert world (no oceans to hide in). There would
be a problem alerting these forces to an attack. Some sort of signal would
need
to be arranged which doesn't need fine sensor targetting. I like the idea
of firing a laser down at a mountaintop or desert (fine targetting not 
necessary). The pillar of light from the sky should be visible from a fair 
(safe) distance away
B/To provide defence for naval assets, orbital habitats or merchant traffic. 
This could be a very important consideration to worlds with large numbers of 
civilians working in space.
C/For a bit of a laugh.
-- 
Brendan O'Donovan


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Jun 95 19:16:00 -0500
From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (JEFF ZEITLIN)
To: Traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Comments: Vampire Fleets
Message-ID: <8AA7484.010004CEE1.uuout@execnet.com>


  I picked it up yesterday from (plug plug) The Compleat
  Strategist, on East 33d st just of Fifth, in the Rotten Apple.  I 
  was disappointed to see that it did not rate posting on their 
  "Coming/Came attractions" board - the first TNE product that
  wasn't so featured.  OTOH, I was told that they had come in that
  day, so they may simply not have had time tp update the 
  display...

  Anyway, the first thing I saw was the cover - not an unreasonable 
  thing to expect to see first.  That was slightly disappointing.  
  It was the same "sinister face made of circuit tracings" that has 
  been prominent in the black-and-white ads in previous products  
  The colorization of the picture, however, seemed to be designed
  to obscure the circuit-tracing nature of the portrait.  The 
  titling font was also not what was used in the ads.  Oh, well,  I 
  think consistency in this would have been nice, but let's look at 
  the contents - they're more important.

  The book is organized into six sections - three sections of game 
  source material, each of which is followed by a section of 
  adventure source material.  The three adventures dovetail into a 
  single campaign, and each adventure uses Virus as a principal 
  NPC.  Each section of game source material provides useful/needed
  background information for the adventure material immediately 
  following, and the adventure material provides a reasonable 
  insight into the game source material.

  The third section of game source material contains an extended 
  design sequence for creating robots, optionally including a 
  "personality" for Virus-infected (NPC) robots.  No provisions for 
  creating a Virus-PC are included, although the book does "stop 
  short of saying [that it is] impossible".  I have not compared 
  this sequence with any other extant robot-creation sequences, 
  though I do note that it is conceptually compatible with the 
  general FFS sequence for designing vehicles (I don't remember
  what, if anything, existed in FFS for robots...).

  As befits the general topic, there is much opportunity for a 
  party of PCs to interact with Virus on an extended-time basis,
  and in several modes.  The focus, as with most TNE material to 
  date, is on a Coalition-based campaign, and information on 
  converting to a Pocket Empire or Regency campaign is sketchy at 
  best.  Hiver involvement in this aspect of the Coalition campaign 
  has been downplayed to a point I find difficult to accept, given
  what we have been told before - if anything, I would have 
  expected a much higher level of Hiver participation, as it is the 
  Hivers who best survived the spread of Virus, and who would have 
  the most knowledge of it.

  The general feel of the book seems to imply that Virus is a major 
  danger to the Coalition - something that we intellectually knew 
  before, perhaps, but previous material did not make it appear to 
  be as much of a threat as this book does.  I hope I haven't 
  discovered a "discontinuity check".  For what it's worth, the 
  calendar appeared to be in mid-1202, and there are two _dated_
  quotations that may lock GDW into a timetable - one extends
  Coalition rights to all sentients, including artificials, in
  1204, and one indicates that contact with the Regency will be 
  made in or by 1206 - with distinct implications that it will 
  _not_ be an open-arms-buddy-buddy-how-nice-we're-not-alone 
  celebration.  Loren, where's the Regency sourcebook for this 
  period immediately prior to contact, fercryinoutloud?

  For those who have been keeping up with Challenge magazine and 
  other GDW source material on the New Era, there is other clear 
  evidence that the Coalition is becoming much more active outside 
  the AO, or that the AO itself is expanding.

  Overall, I feel it is well-presented.  There is reason within to 
  cause players and PCs to possibly re-think their most-likely- 
  -black-and-white-Virus-is-EVIL views, just like the CT Zhodani
  alien module did for the most-likely-black-and-white-Zhodani-
  -and-psionics-are-EVIL views back then.  It's a decent read in
  and of itself (if you're like me - YMMV otherwise).  My primary
  complaint is that it is perhaps a little _too_ focussed on the 
  Coalition interaction with Virus - I'd have liked to see 
  additional sections briefly discussing the differences between 
  the Coalition approach toward Virus and the Regency attitude, and 
  the incidents that shaped them.  As it stands, this is definitely 
  a Coalition sourcebook, and less desirable to a Pocket Empire or 
  Regency campaign.

  On a Five-Best scale, I give it a 3.5-to-4.0 for Coalition GMs,
  subtract about 0.5 for a Pocket Empire GM, and subtract 
  1.0-to-1.25 for a Regency GM.
==========================================================================
Jeff Zeitlin                                      jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com
---
 þ OLXWin 1.00a þ Not a computer nerd; merely a techno-weenie.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 16:12:42 -0500
From: bonn0015@flipper.itlabs.umn.edu (STEVEN M BONNEVILLE)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Just Detected: _Vampire Fleets_
Message-ID: <199506022112.QAA15249@diatom.itlabs.umn.edu>

lhowie@dilbert.lrmi.com (Les Howie) wrote:

[about robots]
>source as well.  Doubtless all to be renderred obsolete by FF&S II.

Sooner than that.  _Vampire Fleets_ have hit the stores.  (I wrote
"has" the first time, but the last sentence is more fun this way.) 

Details from a quick look in the shop:
$16.00 US, and about the same length as _Hiver and Ithklur_.
It's about half adventure and half sourcebook.

The book talks about virus psychology and motivations, and how to 
generate virus "characters" and random vampire fleets.  More info
on Diaspora subsectors is included.  Robot generation design rules
are included, and while I didn't look real closely at them, they
look like mutants of DGP's rules.  Deck plans for a _Midu Agashaam_
are included, at the annoying new two-meter scale, of course.

There are also rules for Virus infection electronic combat.  A
Virus attack can be resisted, and driven off, at the least by
other viruses.  

The campaign is entirely RC/Sufren region based, and the book is
clearly geared for RC-type folks.  The RC has apparently suffered
some setbacks -- besides Solee and their other problems, it seems 
that Virus-infected ships have suddenly noticed the Coalition....

One of the bits of art, just inside the back cover, surprised me
a bit.  Anyone else here seen the blocky-pixel computer-generated
art from old "CT book" pamphlet-sized issues of _Travellers'
Digest_?  An illo for an equipment sheet looked a lot like one 
of those.

Obligatory advertisement in the back for the Regency sourcebook,
_Keepers of the Flame_, with an advertised release date of July.

  Steve Bonneville
  <bonn0015@gold.tc.umn.edu>


------------------------------

End of TRAVELLER Digest 305
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