Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3300
Date: | 11/17/00 1:35:36 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Friday, November 17 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3300
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: GT Sector Books
Re: Government Code
Re: cybernetics
DGP Ebay sale
Re: Beowulf
RE: Lasers
Re: A GURPS-related question
Re: Beowulf facts ASAP
RE: A GURPS-related question
RE: Confusing TLs (Was Government Code)
World Generation
RE: Confusing TLs (Was Government Code)
Re: More Traveller Jobs-Law
Re: Sectors
RE: Meson Communications
Re: Meson Communications
RE: Lexx( Was Andromeda)
RE: Meson Communications
Re: Meson Communications
Re: Government Code
RE: Meson Communications
RE: Laser hazards
"Pocket Empires," TEDs, the New Era, and the Marches
Re: More Traveller Jobs-Law
Re: More Traveller Jobs-Law
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 08:19:14 CST
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: GT Sector Books
>>Capital would deserve a chapter of its own...
>
>Yup, I fully agree. Along the same lines, I also would have liked even more
>detailed data on Terra in RoF.
In this case, why even trust SJG? What about having a group of fans write a
free book for Core? There doesn't seem to be any legal restrictions, as
proven by the continuing existance of several projects.
(BTW, for more detailed data on Terra, look outside your window.)
- -J. Jensen
_________________________________________________________________________
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http://profiles.msn.com.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 14:28:41 +0000
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Government Code
"James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com> wrote
>Does it seem odd to anyone that a religious dictator ship is government D
>when historically its been the small, primitive tribes that are like this?
Bruce Johnson seems to have answered this pretty well.
But it does sound like it's coming out of the old theory that as society
grows more 'refined' its religious outlooks tends to grow more refined too
from pantheism to polytheism to monotheism (to atheism?).
I thought this theory had been pretty well demolished but would have to
check my sources (at home) if anyone cares for references.
>What I'm proposing is switching govs 3 and D, which makes governments A-D
>progress like this:
>So, what do you think?
Someone said 'can of worms'. Too right. It's confusing enough having to
work out which TL is meant now GURPS has clouded the issue, if you could
now be looking at a UWP that might have the government codes one way or
maybe t'other...
But an interesting thought.
tc
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 06:53:50 -0800
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: cybernetics
on 11/16/00 4:00 PM, Megan Robertson at mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk
wrote:
[snip]
> The interesting times begin when you visit a world where even minimal
> augmentation is frowned upon. Shunned in the street, hassled by the
> authorities, perhaps setting off security scanners... *tee* *hee*
>
Or as an alternative, go to a worlds with 'body purity' laws only to have
your implants go on the fritz.
"By the Law, the offending implants, which are foul in God's eye, are to be
taken from the body of the tainted one with the Holy Instruments and cast
down before the elders of the Church."
"umm, err... what about anaesthetic?"
"This thing you speak of is not mentioned in holy writ."
Tod
- --
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend"
- --
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.solsec.org
http://www.grandsurvey.com
http://travellerguns.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 10:03:47 -0500
From: Glenn Myers <glenn.myers@ansys.com>
Subject: DGP Ebay sale
FYI, The clearing of Glenn's shelves continues... This week all of the DGP
large format magazines I have are up.
You can get to all of my items through this link ...
http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=arathar
Items 1 - 12 of 12 total
Item Start End Price Title High Bidder
501554374 Nov-16-00 Nov-26-00 20:12:13 $6.00 DGP Traveller Digest #13 RARE
No Reserve No Bids Yet
501556351 Nov-16-00 Nov-26-00 20:13:32 $6.00 DGP Traveller Digest #14 RARE
No Reserve No Bids Yet
501559569 Nov-16-00 Nov-26-00 20:15:51 $6.00 DGP Traveller Digest #15 RARE
No Reserve No Bids Yet
501561401 Nov-16-00 Nov-26-00 20:17:17 $6.00 DGP Traveller Digest #16 RARE
No Reserve No Bids Yet
501563556 Nov-16-00 Nov-26-00 20:19:02 $6.00 DGP Traveller Digest #17 RARE
No Reserve No Bids Yet
501565476 Nov-16-00 Nov-26-00 20:20:17 $6.00 DGP Traveller Digest #18 RARE
No Reserve No Bids Yet
501567381 Nov-16-00 Nov-26-00 20:21:22 $6.00 DGP Traveller Digest #19 RARE
No Reserve No Bids Yet
501569214 Nov-16-00 Nov-26-00 20:22:35 $6.00 DGP Traveller Digest #20 RARE
No Reserve No Bids Yet
501571311 Nov-16-00 Nov-26-00 20:23:45 $6.00 DGP Traveller Digest #21 RARE
No Reserve No Bids Yet
501573570 Nov-16-00 Nov-26-00 20:25:37 $6.00 DGP MegaTraveller Journal #2
RARE No Reserve No Bids Yet
501575378 Nov-16-00 Nov-26-00 20:27:01 $9.99 DGP MegaTraveller Journal #3
RARE No Reserve No Bids Yet
501577465 Nov-16-00 Nov-26-00 20:28:17 $9.99 DGP MegaTraveller Journal #4
RARE No Reserve No Bids Yet
Thanks for looking,
Glenn
______________________________________________________
Glenn E. Myers
ANSYS Inc. Email: glenn.myers@ansys.com
275 Technology Drive Phone: (724) 514-2913
Canonsburg, PA 15317 Fax: (724) 514-3118
______________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 10:08:11 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Beowulf
> I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned this, but I've found a reference to the
> Free Trader _Beowulf_. THE Free Trader _Beowulf_! It's mentioned in "Exit
> Visa".
Evidently Beowulf is a _very_ popular name for free traders -- there seem to
have been several.
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 07:56:55 -0800 (PST)
From: John Fox <jfox@verity.com>
Subject: RE: Lasers
From: Laser Specialist Corp
To: Luther Martin
Subj: Laser Question
Date: 17 Nov 2000
Dear Mr. Martin:
We appreicate you coming to Laser Specialist Corp. with your questions
concerning lasers and espically lasers of high power. Laser Specialist Corp
prides itself in providing timely and accurate information concerning lasers.
We however have not received payment from you for this knowledge and therefore
must withhold answering at this time.
If you would deposit the fee of 100 Cr per question in our account (or provide
a valid account to credit from) we will be happy to answer your questions. Some
of your questions are more complex than others and thus the fee will be higher.
The total will come to 2000 Cr.
Thank you for your inquiry. We look forward to doing business with you
Laser Specialist Corp
>
> Homework problem to clarify how lasers behave in Traveller:
>
> 1. Assume that the damage of a laser weapon in TNE is propoprtional to the
> beam energy. Use the TNE laser weapon damage tables to estimate the complex
> index of refraction of air at the laser's frequency. What is the likely
> source of this interaction with the atmosphere? What atmospheric window is
> probably being used for the low-TL lasers? Are the TL 13+ weapons probably
> visible or invisible wavelengths?
>
> 2. Use the value estimated in part 1 to estimate the of energy from a laser
> rifle which will be reflected back at the user. Suggest a way of minimizing
> this effect. What are its limitations?
>
> 3. Estimate the fraction of the energy from a laser rifle beam which will be
> converted into acoustic energy. Use this value to estimate how loud a laser
> rifle shot is. Recall that for acoustics, 20 uPa is the reference for
> decibels. What sort of hearing protection would a laser rifle user need?
>
> 4. Assume that a laser rifle produces a gaussian beam. Estimate how big the
> beam will be at the different combat ranges.
>
> 5. What pulse duration is needed to avoid photoionization of the atmosphere
> by a laser rifle pulse?
>
> 6. How will a ship's laser behave if fired in a planet's atmosphere?
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 17:31:20 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: A GURPS-related question
"Jones, Dean" wrote:
> Got it at home...I'll mail it to you later. BTW...most of Ice Age is
> contained in the In Print GURPS Dinosaurs, and Dinosaurs is more accurate.
Correction: Out of print.
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 17:36:23 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Beowulf facts ASAP
"Jones, Dean" wrote:
> OK, I took a loot through JTAS25 (the first of the Imperium games issues,
> and the first Loren wasn't editor) and the item I was thinking of was some
> T4(I think) fanfic in which a ship is sending out the famous Beowulf Mayday
> as part of some nefarious plot or other.
Yes, that's the one in Imperial Squadrons. In two of the six plot
versions, it actually is the FT Beowulf. In the other four, it's a
trick...
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 16:36:50 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: A GURPS-related question
Hmmm...SJG: you turn around and suddenly half you collection's OOP! Not to
worry, Steve's a Dino-nut and it's a great resource, so it's bound to get
reprinted. Well, I'll send the Neanderthal stats later on anyway.
Dean
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm [mailto:jenry023@student.liu.se]
> Sent: 17 November 2000 16:31
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: A GURPS-related question
>
>
> "Jones, Dean" wrote:
> > Got it at home...I'll mail it to you later. BTW...most of Ice Age is
> > contained in the In Print GURPS Dinosaurs, and Dinosaurs is
> more accurate.
>
> Correction: Out of print.
>
> * Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
> | jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
> | ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
> * http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 16:46:12 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Confusing TLs (Was Government Code)
>
>
> Someone said 'can of worms'. Too right. It's confusing
> enough having to
> work out which TL is meant now GURPS has clouded the issue,
> if you could
> now be looking at a UWP that might have the government codes
> one way or
> maybe t'other...
>
True. As far as TLs go, I tend to think in GURPS and translate to Traveller
as a matter of coutesy.
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 17:23:14 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@exchange.rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: World Generation
I've just done a big upgrade to Tyge's "World Generation". He
sent me a new version of the pdf on Wednesday and its already
been HTMLised. (I had yesterday off from work.)
Note that its no longer an alternative system for 2300AD but now
a generic hard-SF system. (As such those who bookmarked it
directly will notice the URL has changed slightly ... the
directory its in is now "wg" instead of "wg2").
You can find it at StuffOnline ...
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen/sol
... in the 2300AD section. (If I get more content I may split it
out into a generic section later.)
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 11:35:30 CST
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Confusing TLs (Was Government Code)
>True. As far as TLs go, I tend to think in GURPS and translate to Traveller
>as a matter of coutesy.
I used to be the exact same way. I think it's because the GURPS TL scale is
more developed than Traveller's.
- -J. Jensen
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 09:43:58 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: More Traveller Jobs-Law
>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
>I think that the TU legal system - or at least that of the Imperium - is
>likely to be two-tier.
This is a recurring theme on the TML. My views are pretty well known, but
I'll summarize them here. The foregoing is the case by late Imperial times,
circa 1100. In the early days of the Imperium (called Milieu Zero in T4),
things were different.
The Imperium reserves several rights, including, inter alia:
- -to conduct relations with non-Imperial powers, including both diplomacy and
defense
- -to manage interstellar trade involving members of the Imperium (noticeably
through control of all starports, but also through promulgation of standards
for ship construction and safety, laws governing goods in interstellar
commerce, etc.)
- -to manage the colonization of uninhabited star systems within Imperial
borders
- -to preserve the peace of the realm
The Imperium does not get involved in local affairs at all. That is an
essential part of the membership treaties between the Imperium and member
states, but, more importantly, the core of the unwritten social contract
between the Imperium and its members. An act that constitutes murder if
committed in a starport (where Imperial law controls) might be no crime at
all across the extrality line. The Imperium is simply not concerned with
local affairs, involving individual citizens, unless the peace of the realm
becomes threatened. A realm of the size and power of the Imperium has a
very high threshhold for feeling threatened.
There are two notable exceptions to the general statement that the Imperium
does not get involved in local affairs at all. One is calendar compliance.
The equivalent of a loyalty oath in the early days of Imperial expansion was
the adoption of the Imperial calendar. Today it is routinely used by
everyone within the Imperium, but it is a treaty violation for a world
government to promulgate and use another calendar. (A religion using its
own calendar does not get into trouble unless the church is also the
government.)
The second exception is slavery. Slave trading was a major problem during
the Long Night for two reasons. First, the practice of capturing slaves
caused great disruptions in society. An important carrot held out to
potential new members of the Imperium was (and is) protection from slavers.
Second, a slave-owning economy is not as efficient as a wage-paying economy.
When workers are not free to follow the jobs -- and companies are not free
to stop supporting unneeded workers -- the velocity of the economy is slow.
Cleon wanted to ramp up the Imperium's economy quickly, and keep it running
at a powerful pace. Eliminating slavery was part of his economic program,
as well as his political program.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 09:45:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Sectors
Jones, Dean writes:
> GrandSurvey did have sector notes, but they became inaccessible when
> Anthony Jackson and the team started to revamp the site. Luckily I grabbed
> copies of the sector data files onto my HDD before this happened. With
> Anthony's permission, I'd be happy to mail them.
I still have sector note links. I just don't have any notes for Core. Most
of them come out of Galactic anyway, just reformatted.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 08:57:33 -0800
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: RE: Meson Communications
> Once these mesons break down and release their energy, is it
> possible to
> read the information content in the released radiation?
There are two issues here.
First, mesons don't just decay all at once. It's a random process, and the
best you can do is to time the decay so that enough mesons decay at your
detector so that you can communicate. The other mesons will be decaying both
short and long of the collector, so an adversary has an opportunity to
collect your meson signal there also.
Next, the mesons which are used to communicate have been accelerated to
extremely high speeds to prolong their otherwise short lives. So they must
have significant momentum. I'm not an expert on this stuff, but when the
mesons decay they certainly must conserve momentum. I'm guessing that this
means that the gamma radiation you get from your mesons is probably fairly
directional, so that there is probably only one small area in which you can
intercept the released radiation.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 10:26:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Meson Communications
Luther Martin writes:
> First, mesons don't just decay all at once. It's a random process, and the
> best you can do is to time the decay so that enough mesons decay at your
> detector so that you can communicate. The other mesons will be decaying
> both short and long of the collector, so an adversary has an opportunity
> to collect your meson signal there also.
Remember, these are magic Traveller Mesons (tm). They have nothing to do
with real mesons, and they don't decay in a process resembling radioactive
decay.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 18:28:40 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@exchange.rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Lexx( Was Andromeda)
Rob Myers wrote:
> My his shadow fall upon you.
Ha, when were YOU last on the Cluster? It should be:
"May his mercyful shadow fall upon you."
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 18:31:43 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Meson Communications
> Luther Martin writes:
> > First, mesons don't just decay all at once. It's a random
> process, and the
> > best you can do is to time the decay so that enough mesons
> decay at your
> > detector so that you can communicate. The other mesons will
> be decaying
> > both short and long of the collector, so an adversary has
> an opportunity
> > to collect your meson signal there also.
>
> Remember, these are magic Traveller Mesons (tm). They have
> nothing to do
> with real mesons, and they don't decay in a process
> resembling radioactive
> decay.
>
Awww, I thought the idea was you change the speed of the mesons depending on
the distance to your target and let time dilation handle the controlled
delay rate. :( Well, that settles it, time to break out the Tachyons.
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 10:54:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Meson Communications
Jones, Dean writes:
> Awww, I thought the idea was you change the speed of the mesons depending
> on the distance to your target and let time dilation handle the controlled
> delay rate. :( Well, that settles it, time to break out the Tachyons.
That's the idea. It just doesn't work, radioactive decay doesn't work that
way.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 10:59:43 -0800
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com>
Subject: Re: Government Code
>From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
>Subject: Re: Government Code
>
<snip>
>Frankly, I'd eliminate the "Religious Dictatorship" entirely. A
>theocratic government could take just about *any* form. A granola-eating,
>tie-dye-wearing, folk-song-singing, Nature-worshipping commune would be
>type 0, or type 2. A heretic-burning, Inqusition-ridden government might
>be type A (if the people love the God-King), or type B (if they don't).
>"Religion" is a vague word, which means different things to different
>cultures.
Good point - When I get a chance, I'm going to have to drag out my
old Space Opera books, because I recall that they split up what in Traveller
is a single "Government" code into two separate entries: Society and
Government (or something like that). The society type could be Tribal,
Corporate, Socailist/Communist; while the Government could be most of the
things that Traveller uses. Modifying this would be a good way to
differentiate between the types of 'Religious Dictatorship' described above,
or between two 'company towns', one where every employee/citizen is a
shareholder and has Athenian-style voting rights, and one that is ruled by a
chairman-for-life with the power of life and death over his slave-like
workers.
Rod Basler, COFIT
- ---------------------------------------------
Disclaimer - It's not their fault, OK?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 18:58:47 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Meson Communications
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anthony Jackson [mailto:ajackson@molly.iii.com]
> Sent: 17 November 2000 18:54
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: Meson Communications
>
>
> Jones, Dean writes:
>
> > Awww, I thought the idea was you change the speed of the
> mesons depending
> > on the distance to your target and let time dilation handle
> the controlled
> > delay rate. :( Well, that settles it, time to break out the
> Tachyons.
>
> That's the idea. It just doesn't work, radioactive decay
> doesn't work that
> way.
>
Yeah, still, it's the 'Fiction' part of Science Fiction that allows you to
gloss over it. I don't like the fact that Meson Comms need to be explained
like that, but then I don't use 'em much, and none of my players'd notice
anyway.
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 13:47:57 -0600
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <dasmart@avaya.com>
Subject: RE: Laser hazards
Rodney Basler posted:
>
> For what it's worth, medical lasers emit an infared
> wavelength that is absorbed by water; this causes
> the fluids inside the cells of the tissue to boil
> and explode. The beam is very tightly focused so
> they are able to destroy tiny amounts of tissue at
> a time. Unfortunately, this wavelength is also
> absorbed by plastics and many other materials, which
> has led to some messy accidents. There was at least
> one case during a vocal-cord surgery where the beam
> nicked the airway tube. The plastic ignited,
> since it was carrying oxygen, and created a
> blowtorch-like flame later determined to be
> up to 10 inches long....and aiming straight into the
> patient's lungs.
I believe this is what MT's task system calls "a special
failure on the task roll with a 'Destroyed' result."
David
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 16:09:11 -0500 (EST)
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
Subject: "Pocket Empires," TEDs, the New Era, and the Marches
On Thu, 16 Nov 2000, Jeffrey Yin wrote:
>
> I think that would work out pretty well.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
> To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>
> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2000 6:09 AM
> Subject: Re: "Pocket Empires" in the New Era
> >
> > So that's why I was interested in Technologically Elevated Dictatorships,
> > and all the other peculiar governments found in the post-Collapse Wilds.
> > Am I correct in thinking that the best way to solve this problem would be
> > to "translate" all those "New Era" government types into their nearest
> > "Classic/T4" equivalents, for the sake of easy compatibility with the
> > "Pocket Empires" rules? Do the "New Era" players who may be reading this
> > think that too much of the "flavor" of post-Collapse government would be
> > lost by using such a technique?
I'm about half done "Collapsing" the Spinward Marches, and it looks like
handling those Technologically Elevated Dictatorships isn't going to be a
big problem, simply because I haven't generated very many of them. I
suspect that (a) many of the worlds in the Spinward Marches are too
sparsely populated to support Technologically Elevated Dictatorships and
(b) the average pre-Collapse Tech Level of the Spinward Marches wasn't
very high, so only a few worlds "fell far enough" to make the rise of
a TED likely. Lots of Balkanization, but not very many TEDs.
- J. Raynor
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 08:17:05 +1100
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au>
Subject: Re: More Traveller Jobs-Law
> From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
> Subject: Re: More Traveller Jobs-Law
>
> These things aren't illegal everywhere. The only things illegal
everywhere
> are (1) Chattel Slavery and (2) Weapons of Mass Destruction (presumably
> their use, though maybe their possession).
>
> bloo
I believe that my Learned Friend was about to add Pira ... {snurf ...
struggle ... beats up masked assassin hired by the Imperial Society for the
Prevention of Flamewars}
Now that intrusion is over, I would like to add that while mostly agreeing
with my Learned Friend's line of reasoning, the Imperial tradition of
decision making by the Sophont on the Spot will mean that the body of
Imperial Case Law will often come into play only to justify the continued
promotion of the decsion maker, not to reverse the effects of their
decision.
The question would be raised as to whether their decision to act or not act
under Imperial Law was soundly based, but the decision would, I think, still
stand.
After all, reversing the decision of the Sophont on the Spot would lead to
continued references to higher authority, which would destroy the Imperial
system of government as we know it.
You may have some of the more traditionalist elements of the Imperial polity
carefully reviewing decisions made, in order to have precedents to their
actions which can be quoted to a subsequent Review Board.
Ian Whitchurch
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 16:32:07 -0500
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: More Traveller Jobs-Law
Glenn Goffin wrote:
>The Imperium does not get involved in local affairs at all. That is an
>essential part of the membership treaties between the Imperium and member
>states, but, more importantly, the core of the unwritten social contract
>between the Imperium and its members. An act that constitutes murder if
>committed in a starport (where Imperial law controls) might be no crime at
>all across the extrality line. The Imperium is simply not concerned with
>local affairs, involving individual citizens, unless the peace of the realm
>becomes threatened. A realm of the size and power of the Imperium has a
>very high threshhold for feeling threatened.
>
But given the "feudal" nature of Imperial rule -- with power &
authority distributed to the sector level, mostly, it seems -- it's
not a realm the size and power of the Imperium that deals with
"disorder" in a given system, but a realm the size of a sector, or
perhaps more likely a subsector. A sector duke is much more
vulnerable to threats, I would think. And if you follow the
pseudo-feudal logic farther, then the Imperial Counts would have some
kind of Imperial authority over tiny little multi-system clusters.
And heck, what self-respecting group of PCs couldn't put the squeeze
to a mere Count? :)
Kenji
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3300
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3301
Date: | 11/18/00 3:55:27 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Saturday, November 18 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3301
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
RE: A GURPS-related question
Subject: RE: Meson Communications
RE: Subject: RE: Meson Communications
Re: Subject: RE: Meson Communications
Re: Meson Communications
re: Is ACQ 15mm compatible?
RE: T4 Errata
Re: Remembrance Sunday
Re: No Carrier
Re: GT Sector Books
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3300
Re: Digest Mode
Re: Government Types
Re: GT Sector Books
RE: cybernetics
RE: Laser hazards
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3300
Ylaven
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3300
Troop Transports & Sydkai Detached Cruiser
Re: Troop Transports & Sydkai Detached Cruiser
Hex coordinates, help needed
Re: Hex coordinates, help needed
Re: Troop Transports & Sydkai Detached Cruiser
RE: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 11:48:21 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: A GURPS-related question
Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm wrote :
> "Jones, Dean" wrote:
> > Got it at home...I'll mail it to you later. BTW...most of Ice Age is
> > contained in the In Print GURPS Dinosaurs, and Dinosaurs is
> > more accurate.
>
> Correction: Out of print.
Then it's lucky I got two on Thursday then ain't it ?
Actually this is just an excuse to put in a note to say that I picked up
over NZ $6000 (retail) worth of unopened stock from a closed game store on
Thursday, including about 22 GURPS books and some TNE Traveller (including
copies of Brilliant Lances & BattleRiders among others) and several hundred
packets of 15mm miniatures & 1/300 micro armour.
I'll be sorting it for a while, I have pressing work to do that is keeping
me away from taking all my clothes off and rolling around in them, but I'm
sure that some of what I've bought will turn out to be surplus to
requirements (I already have a copy of Brilliant Lances, for instance) so
I'll let people know when it's sorted, TML get's first dibs.
In the meantime, if anyone's looking for something in particular, LMK.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 21:37:06 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Subject: RE: Meson Communications
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 07:59:34 -0000
>From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
>
>>
>> Nooo... a meson gun is a 'beam' weapon - the 'beam' does not
>> teleport - it
>> just does not interact with normal matter at all. (it is made
>> up of Mesons
>> after all, and they are really really really tiny).
>
>I'll concede that no actual teleportation is involved, but as there
is no
>interaction with the matter between transmissiona and reception
point, so it
>is ~effectively~ teleportation. Apologies for confusing the issue,
and
>you're quite correct, a non-interactive beam is a much better
description of
>the way meson guns function. But, as Leonard points out, you not
only need
>direction, but also distance so you can focus the shot. This
suggests that
>meson comms also require focusing on a reciever, not just pointing
like a
>laser.
I may be misremembering, but I believe it was stated somewhere
(Striker?) that meson communicators used a version of the meson
screen to force the beam to decay within the receiver, so that you
didn't need to have the distance.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 16:33:56 -0800
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: RE: Subject: RE: Meson Communications
David J. Golden wrote:
> I may be misremembering, but I believe it was stated somewhere
> (Striker?) that meson communicators used a version of the meson
> screen to force the beam to decay within the receiver, so that you
> didn't need to have the distance.
So how do meson screens work? In HG we are told that meson beans are Pi0
mesons, which are basically a tiny bit of matter and a tiny bit of
antimatter just waiting to annihilate (I think that it's something like a
u/u* or d/d* pair). Suppose that meson screens can actually stop matter and
antimatter from going *boom*. Now apply the principle of unintended
consequences, or more easily, let players try their hand at it, and you
get....
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 02:13:28 -0000
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Subject: RE: Meson Communications
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2000 12:33 AM
Subject: RE: Subject: RE: Meson Communications
> David J. Golden wrote:
>
> > I may be misremembering, but I believe it was stated somewhere
> > (Striker?) that meson communicators used a version of the meson
> > screen to force the beam to decay within the receiver, so that you
> > didn't need to have the distance.
>
> So how do meson screens work? In HG we are told that meson beans are
Pi0
> mesons, which are basically a tiny bit of matter and a tiny bit of
> antimatter just waiting to annihilate (I think that it's something
like a
> u/u* or d/d* pair). Suppose that meson screens can actually stop
matter and
> antimatter from going *boom*. Now apply the principle of unintended
> consequences, or more easily, let players try their hand at it, and
you
> get....
Flood the area around your ship with Pi0 mesons, which are their own
antiparticle. The incoming beam will annihilate on the generated
'screen' of mesons (a meson screen is just that... a screen made of
mesons... <g>), so the discharge of energy occurs outside the ship.
As you don't need to fire your meson 'screen' at as high a relativistic
velocity (it only has to go a few km or so before decaying to nothing),
the energy cost will be lower than for the weapon fired mesons, and you
can handwave the figures to get canonical energy requirements...
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 18:55:05 -0800
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
Subject: Re: Meson Communications
Luther,
Yes, that's right. I have some notes on that in my files--it's not a
hard calculation to do but it is rather fun. Here's a few notes:
- -The longer the distance between sender and receiver, the narrower the
radiation cone.
- -The length of the envelope that the mesons decay in is determined by
how well the sender can control the momentum of the mesons. For
Traveller, the higher tech level transmitters would have better control
on the momentum, smaller packets and be harder to detect.
Kristian
Luther Martin wrote:
> Next, the mesons which are used to communicate have been accelerated to
> extremely high speeds to prolong their otherwise short lives. So they must
> have significant momentum. I'm not an expert on this stuff, but when the
> mesons decay they certainly must conserve momentum. I'm guessing that this
> means that the gamma radiation you get from your mesons is probably fairly
> directional, so that there is probably only one small area in which you can
> intercept the released radiation.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 11:58:40 +0000
From: Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Is ACQ 15mm compatible?
At 10:14 -0500 15/11/00, Glenn Myers <glenn.myers@ansys.com> wrote:
>I'm thinking of putting _At Close Quarters_ on my Christmas list but I need
>to know is it compatible with 15mm miniatures?
Yes. The rules can be used with miniatures (any scale) or without.
Dom (BITS webmaster, ACQ playtester)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 11:53:42 +0000
From: Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: RE: T4 Errata
At 22:26 -0500 14/11/00, "tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>Errata Installation Method for T4
>
>1) Burn all T4 books
>2) Buy GURPS:Traveller
>3) Game on
>(dukking and running)
Whoomph! Gee! I *love* fusion weapons....
Dom
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 12:06:06 +0000
From: Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Remembrance Sunday
At 16:46 -0500 15/11/00, "Peter Scarrott"
<peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>We still
>have a 2 minute silence here and I am glad to say that the British Legion's
>(ex serviceman's organisation) campaign to implement a voluntary 2 minute
>silence on the correct day (1100 11th/11th) is gaining great support.
>(Though my company does not support this idea and it entailed a swift
>argument with my senior manager for me to get outside at 1100 for my own 2
>mins of Remembrance).
My company puts out a tannoy announcement across the whole site (1500
or so people) just before and just after. I believe that they stopped
all the packing lines on the production floors too.
Dom
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 12:10:35 +0000
From: Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: No Carrier
At 21:32 -0500 15/11/00, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
><modem connected>
> > That's right -- H-A-S-T-
>E-R-N
>Hastern! Isn't that . . . uh . . . interesting . . . er . . .
>Well . . . that's how he want you to _think_ it's spelled.
>
>LK(fnord)W
The devilish plot is revealed - his name is unusual and people will
have to think two or three times as to what he is called. The plan is
three times..... "Mr Hast...err?".
Dom
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 12:24:36 +0000
From: Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: GT Sector Books
At 16:32 -0500 17/11/00, "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com> wrote:
>In this case, why even trust SJG? What about having a group of fans write a
>free book for Core? There doesn't seem to be any legal restrictions, as
>proven by the continuing existance of several projects.
Actually, you should have permission from the intellectual copyright
holder to posts such websites etc. I seem to remember that Hyphen's
site (which is lined from www.bits.org.uk) has a summary of Marc's
comments and requirements for disclaimers on such material. Or you
could email Marc (FarFuture@aol.com) for permission.
Dom
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 11:01:52 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3300
> >Yup, I fully agree. Along the same lines, I also would have liked even more
> >detailed data on Terra in RoF.
We're working on that.
> In this case, why even trust SJG? What about having a group of fans write
a
> free book for Core? There doesn't seem to be any legal restrictions
Marc might have a slightly different viewpoint on this . . .
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 11:13:16 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
Subject: Re: Digest Mode
On Thu, 16 Nov 2000 22:15:46 -0500 (EST), "James Jensen"
<cheeb0@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I've just subscribed the the digest mode of traveller at another email
>address (cheebzero@email.com), and I was wondering: How often I should
>expect to get digests?
Three to six times per day, typically.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
(Ask me via email about the ILink message network!)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 11:13:11 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
Subject: Re: Government Types
On Thu, 16 Nov 2000 15:58:36 -0500 (EST), bruce johnson
<johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:
>James Jensen wrote:
> > It seems odd to me that a religious dictatorship is a type D
> > government. This requires a MINIMUM population of one-hundred
> > million! But most religious dictatorships in history have been
> > small, primitive tribes in Africa and Central America, haven't
> > they?
>Afghanistan and Iran are hardly 'small, primitive tribes'.
> Nor in fact was Egypt during, foex, the reign of Rameses II.
>Tibet under the Dalai Lama's was also, essentially, a religious
>dictatorship, pretty absolute in fact.
But I'm not sure his point is damaged; none of those come close to having
the 100 000 000 minimum population the rules require to generate a Type D
government.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
(Ask me via email about the ILink message network!)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 10:38:05 -0600
From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@mail.elc.net>
Subject: Re: GT Sector Books
From: Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
>At 16:32 -0500 17/11/00, "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>In this case, why even trust SJG? What about having a group of fans write a
>>free book for Core? There doesn't seem to be any legal restrictions, as
>>proven by the continuing existance of several projects.
>
>Actually, you should have permission from the intellectual copyright
>holder to posts such websites etc. I seem to remember that Hyphen's
>site (which is lined from www.bits.org.uk) has a summary of Marc's
>comments and requirements for disclaimers on such material. Or you
>could email Marc (FarFuture@aol.com) for permission.
I have very little Traveller-related stuff on my site (currently), but I did everything requested in the FAQ at www.travellerrpg.com: (1) include the disclaimer on each page and (2) e-mail Mr. Miller the URLs of said pages.
Just because some people will allow you to use their intellectual property with few restrictions doesn't mean you can do whatever you want with no permission.
A generous and sadistic GM,
Brandon Cope
http://www.geocities.com/copeab
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 08:37:16 -0800
From: "tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@bigfoot.com>
Subject: RE: cybernetics
IIRC a passage somewhere that talked about some one with more then 25%
cyberwear being consitered a robot, and a slave. IIRC also in Knightfall a
passenger with a metal Cyberarm.
I think that there is a precident for cyber in the OTU - I just think it has
to be limited under Imperial Law. (Of course certian Imperial Law
Enforcement Agencys need not worry about such trivialies as 'the law').
IMHO Battle Dress is a cheaper and more effective 'body mod' then jacking
some one up with hardware. This is why you do not see many marines sporting
full body mods. (IMTU some might have a few gagets however - Commandos esp.
Could you imagine a Commando trying to sneak into a compound in BD? Clomp
Clomp Clomp. Hardware add ones might provide that edge.) :)
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Megan Robertson
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2000 4:17 PM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Cc: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk
Subject: Re: cybernetics
In-Reply-To: <003601c05020$b9af1a90$1601a8c0@SMIUS.COM>
Greetings dear hearts.
After sending that message, I had some further thoughts.
It's likely, given the sheer size of the TU, that views on the use of
cybernetics will vary greatly from planet to planet.
It is also likely that certain modifications will be accepted, for
example, replacement eyes (which are likely to be extremely tricky to grow
in vitro) - after all, anyone sporting a pair could claim to have been
born visually impaired and just fail to mention the miniturised camera and
video-sender embedded in his orbit!
As Tod says, implants which don't show are even more likely to be used by
those who feel comfortable with them (or whose superiors demand it!).
The interesting times begin when you visit a world where even minimal
augmentation is frowned upon. Shunned in the street, hassled by the
authorities, perhaps setting off security scanners... *tee* *hee*
Maybe a crime will be committed... and our enhanced heroes will be prime
suspects just because they are enhanced.... Hey, it's almost tempting to
allow players to have these things just so that you can, erm, play with
them later :-)
Hugs and kisses,
Mexal.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 08:43:25 -0800
From: "tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@bigfoot.com>
Subject: RE: Laser hazards
Splort
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Smart, David J
(David)
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2000 11:48 AM
To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'
Subject: RE: Laser hazards
Rodney Basler posted:
>
> For what it's worth, medical lasers emit an infared
> wavelength that is absorbed by water; this causes
> the fluids inside the cells of the tissue to boil
> and explode. The beam is very tightly focused so
> they are able to destroy tiny amounts of tissue at
> a time. Unfortunately, this wavelength is also
> absorbed by plastics and many other materials, which
> has led to some messy accidents. There was at least
> one case during a vocal-cord surgery where the beam
> nicked the airway tube. The plastic ignited,
> since it was carrying oxygen, and created a
> blowtorch-like flame later determined to be
> up to 10 inches long....and aiming straight into the
> patient's lungs.
I believe this is what MT's task system calls "a special
failure on the task roll with a 'Destroyed' result."
David
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 10:40:12 CST
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3300
>Marc might have a slightly different viewpoint on this . . .
>
Ohhhhhh. _Him_. Well, I was just remarking on the existance of things like
Landgrab and all the maps there are out there. But, if _he'd_ have an
objection, then I'll wait for SJG...
- -J. Jensen
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 14:25:16 -0500
From: "Anthony Colosetti" <acoloset@kent.edu>
Subject: Ylaven
Hello all,
I have a strange question...Does anyone out there know why Ylaven
(Spinward Marches 1916 X587552-4) is a red travel zone? First I'm looking
for any canon references, but I would gladly take any suggestions you would
like to throw at me. On the subject of Interdicted space (i.e. red travel
zones) to what extent would the Imperium place around a system to keep
people out? Thanks...
Anthony
- ---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.211 / Virus Database: 100 - Release Date: 11/14/00
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 11:45:28
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3300
At 10:40 AM 11/18/2000 CST, you wrote:
>>Marc might have a slightly different viewpoint on this . . .
>
>Ohhhhhh. _Him_. Well, I was just remarking on the existance of things like
>Landgrab and all the maps there are out there. But, if _he'd_ have an
>objection, then I'll wait for SJG...
The Landgrab isn't attempting to produce anything more than a few detailed
worlds.. hardly in the same realm as an entire sector!
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 14:54:37 -0500
From: "Anthony Colosetti" <acoloset@kent.edu>
Subject: Troop Transports & Sydkai Detached Cruiser
Does anyone know of a good ship for the transport of a platoon of marines?
I'm looking for something less than 1000 Dtons that can keep pace with a
Fiery Class Gunned Escort. I'm also curious if anyone has ever drawn up
deckplans for the Sydkai class Detached Cruiser. Thanks for your time...
Anthony
P.S. for the above ship request please note I only use High Guard ship
generation and would perfer that deckplans be available.
- ---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.211 / Virus Database: 100 - Release Date: 11/14/00
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 12:46:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Troop Transports & Sydkai Detached Cruiser
Thought about a Broadsword?
- --- Anthony Colosetti <acoloset@kent.edu> wrote:
> Does anyone know of a good ship for the transport of a platoon of
> marines?
> I'm looking for something less than 1000 Dtons that can keep pace
> with a
> Fiery Class Gunned Escort. I'm also curious if anyone has ever drawn
> up
> deckplans for the Sydkai class Detached Cruiser. Thanks for your
> time...
>
> Anthony
>
> P.S. for the above ship request please note I only use High Guard
> ship
> generation and would perfer that deckplans be available.
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.211 / Virus Database: 100 - Release Date: 11/14/00
>
>
=====
Gerry Harris
**********************************************************************************************
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Soldier's Companion — http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html
**********************************************************************************************
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 21:56:58 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Hex coordinates, help needed
I am in need of a coordinate system for hexagons that is not limited by
sector borders or other non-physical limits. I also would like to avoid
negative or floating point coordinates, since that causes confusion
while printing. I am not sure beforehand how large the area I am mapping
is, or where it begins. For these reasons, the normal Traveller sector
numbering system doesn't suit my purposes.
An idea that crossed my mind was to use a variant of polar coordinates.
All I need is a hex to use as the point of origin. The first of the
coordinates is the radius, while the second is the position around the
circle of that radius.
+---+
|2,0+---+
+---+2,1+---+
+---+1,0+---+2,2|
|1,5+---+1,1+---+
+---+0,0+---+2,3|
|1,4+---+1,2+---+
+---+1,3+---+
+---+
Two kinds of mathematical operations need to be possible to perform,
preferrably without floating point math, trigonometric functions, and
other computation-intensive operations.
The first operation is called neighbours. It is important to be able to
find all hexes that are situated next to any given hex, or within a
specific number of steps. I have this one worked out, but typing it here
would take time. If you're interested, mail me.
The other operation is a lot trickier. I need to be able to determine
the distance (measured in steps) between any two hexes. This is the part
I need help with. Is there an easy formula to determine this distance?
If no one can answer this question for me, I can find out on my own.
However, why bother if someone has already done the work for me? ;-)
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 08:32:33 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Hex coordinates, help needed
On Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 09:56:58PM +0100, Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm wrote:
[Polar hex coordinates]
> Two kinds of mathematical operations need to be possible to perform,
> preferrably without floating point math, trigonometric functions, and
> other computation-intensive operations.
> The first operation is called neighbours. It is important to be able to
> find all hexes that are situated next to any given hex, or within a
> specific number of steps. I have this one worked out, but typing it here
> would take time. If you're interested, mail me.
It sounds to me like this one is far more difficult and time-consuming
than the next one. Lots of special cases. I'd be interested in
seeing how you did it.
> The other operation is a lot trickier. I need to be able to determine
> the distance (measured in steps) between any two hexes. This is the part
> I need help with. Is there an easy formula to determine this distance?
I doubt it. That's one of the disadvantages of using a polar
coordinate system, and I think it would just get more complex by
turning the circles into hexagons.
In such a situation, I prefer to use odd/even numbering. Choose an
origin. Use normal X/Y coordinates (positive and negative)
internally. This makes neighbours and distance calculations trivial.
For purposes of printing, double all coordinates. For negative
coordinates, make them positive and subtract one.
e.g.
..., -4, -3, -2, -1, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, ...
doubles to
..., -8, -6, -4, -2, 0, 2, 4, 6, 8, ...
which becomes
..., 7, 5, 3, 1, 0, 2, 4, 6, 8, ...
That is, all positive coordinates have even numbers. All negative
ones have odd. It is trivial to convert between the two
representations in a program, and mentally not difficult either.
Hope this helps solve your problem, if in a different way than you
thought.
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 16:35:51 -0500
From: "Anthony Colosetti" <acoloset@kent.edu>
Subject: Re: Troop Transports & Sydkai Detached Cruiser
Subject: Re: Troop Transports & Sydkai Detached Cruiser
Gerry Harris replied in regards to my request for a troop tranport...
- ---Thought about a Broadsword?
My only problem with the Broadsword class is it is only a J-3,M-3 ship. I
am looking for a marine companion for the Fiery class which is J-4, M-4.
(This is completely ignoring my dislike of perp deck design in an age of
grav plates. <ack> Kill the Infidel!!!)
Anthony
- ---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.211 / Virus Database: 100 - Release Date: 11/14/00
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 18:50:36 -0500
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com>
Subject: RE: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)
Submarine toilets are applicable to this discussion because unlike surface
ships sub toilets are not continuous discharge. To discharge the CHT tankage
the tanks must be pressurized to a higher pressure than the outside water.
Each toilet is separated from the system during overboard discharge by a
valve next to the commode. If the valve is opened during discharge....
Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Frank G. Pitt
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2000 11:52 PM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: RE: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)
> Anybody ever use the toilet in a submarine?
I tried but the marine guard wouldn't eve let me in the submarine, let alone
use the toilet.
Frankie
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3301
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3302
Date: | 11/19/00 1:29:43 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Sunday, November 19 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3302
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
RE: More Traveller Jobs-Law
Re: Hex coordinates, help needed
RE: Some Qs about energy weapons (semi-realistic)
Re: Hex coordinates, help needed
Atlas of the Imperium
Re: Atlas of the Imperium
RE: Meson Communications
RE: Meson Communications
RE: Meson Communications
Re: Digest Mode
Info on tethers and other "alternative tech"
Re: Atlas of the Imperium
RE: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)
Re: Atlas of the Imperium
Re: Atlas of the Imperium
Re: Info on tethers and other "alternative tech"
Re: Meson Communications
FFN Stuff
The universe is black and red
Re: Atlas of the Imperium
RE: Meson Communications
RE: Meson Communications
Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Atlas of the Imperium
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 19:25:10 -0500
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com>
Subject: RE: More Traveller Jobs-Law
All depends on whether or not the Count can call up a couple of companies of
Imperial Marines. Say doesn't Count Yori have that little group of boy
scouts, Four Hundred and Eighteenth something or other....
Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Kenji Schwarz
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2000 4:32 PM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: Re: More Traveller Jobs-Law
Glenn Goffin wrote:
>The Imperium does not get involved in local affairs at all. That is an
>essential part of the membership treaties between the Imperium and member
>states, but, more importantly, the core of the unwritten social contract
>between the Imperium and its members. An act that constitutes murder if
>committed in a starport (where Imperial law controls) might be no crime at
>all across the extrality line. The Imperium is simply not concerned with
>local affairs, involving individual citizens, unless the peace of the realm
>becomes threatened. A realm of the size and power of the Imperium has a
>very high threshhold for feeling threatened.
>
But given the "feudal" nature of Imperial rule -- with power &
authority distributed to the sector level, mostly, it seems -- it's
not a realm the size and power of the Imperium that deals with
"disorder" in a given system, but a realm the size of a sector, or
perhaps more likely a subsector. A sector duke is much more
vulnerable to threats, I would think. And if you follow the
pseudo-feudal logic farther, then the Imperial Counts would have some
kind of Imperial authority over tiny little multi-system clusters.
And heck, what self-respecting group of PCs couldn't put the squeeze
to a mere Count? :)
Kenji
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 01:28:09 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Hex coordinates, help needed
Timothy Little wrote:
<snip neighbours>
> It sounds to me like this one is far more difficult and time-consuming
> than the next one. Lots of special cases. I'd be interested in
> seeing how you did it.
General principle:
* Three cases (point of origin, corner point, other point)
* Add points in inner circle, outer circle, and current circle (each
according to rules)
* If more layers are required, use recursion and duplicate element
elimination
If you understand C/C++ I can mail you the source code by private mail.
The same goes for anyone else that might be interested.
<snip distance>
> I doubt it. That's one of the disadvantages of using a polar
> coordinate system, and I think it would just get more complex by
> turning the circles into hexagons.
I know that polar coordinates are tricky in this aspect, but I
think/hope that hexagons will make it easier.
It would probably be a lot of special cases and conditional branches,
but I think it's possible. I will try to work it out.
<snip odd/even numbering>
Interesting. I might use this one if I fail using polar coordinates.
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 20:01:01 -0500
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com>
Subject: RE: Some Qs about energy weapons (semi-realistic)
>I was doing some thinking about quasi-realistic energy weapons (no grav
focus,
>trying to limit the use of Unobtainium, etc), and I had some questions I
>wondered if people had any ideas about:
>
>1) A realistic laser is going to heat up its focusing mirror; assuming 99%
>reflectivity and a 10 megajoule laser with a 1 square meter mirror, it will
>transfer 10 joules/cm^2 into the surface; if we assume the heat transfers 1
>cm into the mirror, that's going to increase the temperature of the mirror
>by around 2-5 degrees depending on material, presumably distorting the
>mirror due to thermal effects. Can anyone give me a realistic guess as to
>what the minimal distortion would be? That amount of heating seems to be
>within the reasonable range for telescope optics, so I'm guessing not above
>1/10^6, but it might be less (and a 1 meter mirror can have a resolution of
>less than 1/10^6, particularly in UV).
>
Not really a problem, we have optics now that are efficient enough not to
have this problem.
>
>3) On a separate issue, can anyone give a plausible limit on the
volts/meter
>for a linear accelerator? 1 million? 10 millon?
>
CEBA at JLAB in Virginia has RF acceleration cavities that operate at up to
10 MeV/m, and were considered a medium energy accelerator. I wouldn't even
want to guess the MeV/m that will be available with plasma wave
accelerators.
>
>5) I'm guessing that the easiest way to neutralize charge without
scattering
>the beam is to use two linacs, one accelerating protons, the other
electrons,
>and merge the beams with a magnetic field. Does this sound plausible?
>
Only if you want a nuclear collider.
Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 12:37:34 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Hex coordinates, help needed
On Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 01:28:09AM +0100, Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm wrote:
>
> General principle:
>
> * Three cases (point of origin, corner point, other point)
> * Add points in inner circle, outer circle, and current circle (each
> according to rules)
> * If more layers are required, use recursion and duplicate element
> elimination
Ok, about what I thought.
> I know that polar coordinates are tricky in this aspect, but I
> think/hope that hexagons will make it easier.
I suspect the opposite. With polar coordinates, the distance is
rotation-invariant -- you can just subtract angles and the problem
reduces to finding the length of the third side of a triangle. You
can immediately apply the cosine rule to get the length.
With hexes, the invididual calculations will be linear (no trig
functions), but the cases will fall into many separate categories.
> It would probably be a lot of special cases and conditional branches,
> but I think it's possible. I will try to work it out.
I suspect the easiest way would be to convert to (X,Y) first. The
distance function in (X,Y) coordinates is a one-liner.
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 17:46:15 -0800
From: "Jeffrey Yin" <jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu>
Subject: Atlas of the Imperium
Well, I just got the Atlas off of ebay (ouch), and it is somewhat slim on
information. There would not happen to be a better resource for the Imperium
as a whole, would there?
Jeffrey Yin
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 20:51:36 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: Re: Atlas of the Imperium
In a message dated 11/18/00 8:47:33 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu writes:
<< Well, I just got the Atlas off of ebay (ouch), and it is somewhat slim on
information. There would not happen to be a better resource for the Imperium
as a whole, would there?
Jeffrey Yin >>
Were you the binder that won it for around $51?
If so....I understand the ouch :)
I was bidding on LBB Adv 11 and it got to $6 and begged off....
For info try - http://maps.grandsurvey.com/
The site was discussed a few days ago on the list...
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 22:53:47 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: RE: Meson Communications
>Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 16:33:56 -0800
>From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com>
>Subject: RE: Subject: RE: Meson Communications
>
>David J. Golden wrote:
>
>> I may be misremembering, but I believe it was stated somewhere
>> (Striker?) that meson communicators used a version of the meson
>> screen to force the beam to decay within the receiver, so that you
>> didn't need to have the distance.
>
>So how do meson screens work? In HG we are told that meson beans are
Pi0
>mesons, which are basically a tiny bit of matter and a tiny bit of
>antimatter just waiting to annihilate (I think that it's something
like a
>u/u* or d/d* pair). Suppose that meson screens can actually stop
matter and
>antimatter from going *boom*. Now apply the principle of unintended
>consequences, or more easily, let players try their hand at it, and
you
>get....
Nuclear dampers?
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 22:54:47 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: RE: Meson Communications
>Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 16:33:56 -0800
>From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com>
>Subject: RE: Subject: RE: Meson Communications
>
>David J. Golden wrote:
>
>> I may be misremembering, but I believe it was stated somewhere
>> (Striker?) that meson communicators used a version of the meson
>> screen to force the beam to decay within the receiver, so that you
>> didn't need to have the distance.
>
>So how do meson screens work? In HG we are told that meson beans are
Pi0
>mesons, which are basically a tiny bit of matter and a tiny bit of
>antimatter just waiting to annihilate (I think that it's something
like a
>u/u* or d/d* pair). Suppose that meson screens can actually stop
matter and
>antimatter from going *boom*. Now apply the principle of unintended
>consequences, or more easily, let players try their hand at it, and
you
>get....
Nuclear dampers? Actually, I thought the Pi0 meson was GENERATED by
the mutual annihilation of matter/antimatter, and is a completely
different particle ...
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 23:12:14 -0500 (EST)
From: James Jensen <cheebzero@email.com>
Subject: RE: Meson Communications
Are mesons a handwave or are they fairly hard science?
- -J. Jensen
- -----------------------------------------------
FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com
Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 22:21:08 -0500
From: Thom Jones-Low <tjoneslo@together.net>
Subject: Re: Digest Mode
>
> Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 11:13:16 -0500
> From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
> Subject: Re: Digest Mode
>
> On Thu, 16 Nov 2000 22:15:46 -0500 (EST), "James Jensen"
> <cheeb0@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >I've just subscribed the the digest mode of traveller at another email
> >address (cheebzero@email.com), and I was wondering: How often I should
> >expect to get digests?
>
> Three to six times per day, typically.
>
Depends on how active the list is being. Today I only got one digest.
During some of the more active moments I recall getting as many as 16 a
day. I usually count on 5 to 10 per day.
- --
Thomas Jones-Low
tjoneslo@together.net
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 19:48:30 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Info on tethers and other "alternative tech"
Today at Orycon I attended a talk on space tethers by Dr. Robert
Forward. He's got a web site up on the subject. www.tethers.com.
I haven't had a chance to check it yet, but it should have all you'd
need to get the basics right in a Traveller setup.
I asked him about statites after the talk, and he said there was some
info on his homepage (I think he said it was www.forwardunlimited.com).
I mentioned I wanted the info for an SF RPG, and he commented that
they'd be good because you can set them up for *any* planet.
I also asked Keith Lofstrom if he had any info up about launch loops,
but he said that he'd like to but he's got too much *work* to do to
mess with it right now.
I saw Jordin Kare there Friday, but haven't managed to get a chance to
ask him if he knows of any good sites on laser launching or mass
drivers (he's worked on both in the past).
Getting back to tethers, it looks like even at Traveller tech levels
they'd be *cheaper* than using manuever drives to get stuff moved
around in many cases.
They'd also justify the Free Trader designs with the top loading cargo
bays. It's *much* easier to haul a load up into the upper atmosphere
and let a tether grapple onto it and haul it up from there.
Modular cutters might be used in such setups as well.
And would you believe 90 days Earth to Mars using tethers?
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 20:14:50 CST
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Atlas of the Imperium
Is the Atlas better (ie, more complete) than Anthony's files? Just wondering
if it was worth buying.
- -J. Jensen
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 22:17:57 -0800
From: Gordon Horne <gordon.horne@home.com>
Subject: RE: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)
>Submarine toilets are applicable to this discussion because unlike surface
>ships sub toilets are not continuous discharge. To discharge the CHT tankage
>the tanks must be pressurized to a higher pressure than the outside water.
>Each toilet is separated from the system during overboard discharge by a
>valve next to the commode. If the valve is opened during discharge....
>
Any spacecraft toilet that discharges at all is extremely
inefficient. Spacecraft toilets should discharge into a recycling
system. The amount of waste which cannot be recycled will vary with
the sophistication of the waste system but should always be
relatively small. Storage and eventual discharge of this material
would be off of the waste treatment plant. There shouldn't be any
direct line from the discharge valve to any toilet or sink. That's
not to say you can't have fun with things going wrong. For example,
if the valve jambs, you only have a limited number of flushes before
it /must/ be fixed.
g
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 22:31:27 -0800
From: Gordon Horne <gordon.horne@home.com>
Subject: Re: Atlas of the Imperium
>Is the Atlas better (ie, more complete) than Anthony's files? Just
>wondering if it was worth buying.
>
>-J. Jensen
My opinion - no.
Aside from filling some blanks and correcting some errors, Anthony's
files are computer based and, with a little effort, can be searched.
I've converted the allworld.txt file into an allworld.xls file and
can search for any world by name, search for worlds by desired
characteristics or sort the entire Imperium and immediately
surrounding areas by tech level, starport, naval base, atmosphere, or
whatever. Try that with the old Atlas of the Imperium.
Thanks Anthony!
TTYL
g
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 19:27:34 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Atlas of the Imperium
On 18 Nov 00, at 20:14, James Jensen wrote:
> Is the Atlas better (ie, more complete) than Anthony's files? Just wondering
> if it was worth buying.
Yes and no. The Atlas is a core document, but all it gives is location,
starport, bases, the presence of gas giants and surface water and name for
high population planets. Anthony's files give names and full UWP for all
worlds, but (and this is a very major but) a lot of those UWP are based on
the highly dubious GEnie data.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 20:35:42 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Info on tethers and other "alternative tech"
On Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 07:48:30PM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> Getting back to tethers, it looks like even at Traveller tech levels
> they'd be *cheaper* than using manuever drives to get stuff moved
> around in many cases.
Only after the ungodly up-front expenses of manufacturing the things.
How much would 10^10 kg of ultra-tough zero-defect edge-of-possibility
structural material cost, and how much more would it cost to assemble
the thing without compromising at all on strength?
From the cost of ship designs, it seems that contragravity and/or
thruster plate technology makes large-scale tether construction
redundant and pointless.
> And would you believe 90 days Earth to Mars using tethers?
That's a little slow for Traveller. Not bad for the real world,
though.
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 20:39:02 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Meson Communications
On Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 11:12:14PM -0500, James Jensen wrote:
> Are mesons a handwave or are they fairly hard science?
Mesons (of various sorts) exist in the real world.
However, they do not have any of the nifty properties exhibited by
Traveller mesons. They do not decay after preset distances. They do
not pass through matter otherwise unimpeded. Those properties are
pure handwaving.
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 12:39:49 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: FFN Stuff
We're going to be running a "gamers' resources" thing on FFN. One part of
this will be a set of adventure ideas, incidents etc that a referee can use
to spark an adventure or fill in a journey. These will be Traveller-Specific
and also generic. Anyone interested in writing some, please contact me.
Also, we need someone to do writeups of Traveller product for the listings.
Not reviews, just what's in the book and what version it's for...
Any takers?
regards
MJD
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 05:09:00
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: The universe is black and red
Which, of course, us Traveller players have known for years.
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 08:35:43 -0600
From: "Shimmergloom" <dragon@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Atlas of the Imperium
Where could I get a copy of this Allworld file?
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Gordon Horne" <gordon.horne@home.com>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2000 12:31 AM
Subject: Re: Atlas of the Imperium
> >Is the Atlas better (ie, more complete) than Anthony's files? Just
> >wondering if it was worth buying.
> >
> >-J. Jensen
>
> My opinion - no.
>
> Aside from filling some blanks and correcting some errors, Anthony's
> files are computer based and, with a little effort, can be searched.
> I've converted the allworld.txt file into an allworld.xls file and
> can search for any world by name, search for worlds by desired
> characteristics or sort the entire Imperium and immediately
> surrounding areas by tech level, starport, naval base, atmosphere, or
> whatever. Try that with the old Atlas of the Imperium.
>
> Thanks Anthony!
>
> TTYL
> g
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 09:54:27 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: RE: Meson Communications
On Sat, 18 Nov 2000, James Jensen wrote:
> Are mesons a handwave or are they fairly hard science?
> -J. Jensen
Lets put it this way: They'll never get hot, they're well-fanned by the
moving appendages, and they're as soft as tapioca pudding.
Actually I think we came up with the concept that mesons are an exotic
particle discovered by the ancient Solomani physicist Bob Meson, and have
been called 'mesons' in his honor.
He never called them that, calling them 'unobtanicles' believing them to
be the fundamental building blocks of the element 'unobtanium', a material
reputed to have miraculous properties of incredible lightness, massive
strength, ease of manufacture and permanently having that 'new car smell'.
Sadly he never knew what he'd found, and continued his alchemist-like
quest for the elusive 'unobtanium' until he died, broke and ridiculed at
the age of 67.
Two years later, a physicist working for the UNSCA Navy decided to use
some high energy equipment on his off hours in a attempt to prove to some
idiots on alt.conspiracies that Bob Meson was simply a nutcase, and not
some uber-genius who was either
a) killed by the CIA for knowing who
killed Kennedy (The _important_ one, of course: John Jr.),
b)kidnapped by the KGB and forced to make unobtanium for thier secret
saucer-shaped stealth aircraft, or
c) spirited away by the Greys in order to hide their secret plan to take
over the world by putting small black labels on the backs of highway
signs.
To his everlasting surprise, Meson's 'unobtainicles' really existed, and
had some amazing properties, which Bob had never been able to determine.
(after all, you ARE limited in the energy ranges you can reach when your
particle accelerator is composed of some auto exhaust pipe glued together
with liquid muffler patch, a vaccuum cleaner, four car batteries wired in
series and 400 foot of iron magnet wire purchased at the Ace Hardware
store down the road.)
After a feverish night of forging laboratory logs and notebooks, the
physicist was able to present his work into high energy weapons research
to his astonished superiors, who immediately recognized the utility of
this new discovery in the ongoing war against the Vilani.
They even forgave his destroying the particle accelerator and melting
half his lab, most of the lab next door, and the two unfortunate lab techs
tending late night experiments in that lab.
Where that potted petunia came from, though, no one was ever able to
determine.
;-)
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 10:38:26 -0800
From: "tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@bigfoot.com>
Subject: RE: Meson Communications
Hmm.. Sounds like it could be a close cousin of Handwavieum...
- ---
He never called them that, calling them 'unobtanicles' believing them to
be the fundamental building blocks of the element 'unobtanium', a material
reputed to have miraculous properties of incredible lightness, massive
strength, ease of manufacture and permanently having that 'new car smell'.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 14:29:50 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Recently I've been reading "Alas, Babylon", by Pat Frank. Then, I went on
Amazon.com to see what other people think about the book. Out of 128
reviews, almost every one was five out of five stars. However, there were
those who gave it four, three, two, and one star(s). (One guy had the nerve
to give away the ending.) One of the prevailing comments was that the idea
of surviving nuclear war was ridiculous and out-dated. One person gave it a
less-than-perfect score simply because it featured Fort Repose surviving a
nuclear blast that occured 50 miles away, citing the Chernobyl incident
which irradiated a radius of hundreds of miles. But then again, Chernobyl
was a nuclear _plant_ and much larger than the average nuclear missile.
So, I was wondering: how large an area does an average thermonuclear warhead
irradiate, and what would it be like to live in an area just outside (by
five-ten miles) of a blast. And _is it_ possible to survive nuclear war?
Also, what would be the social impacts if it is? (I need to know for a short
story I'm writing.)
ObTraveller: Well, the 3I still _has_ nuclear weapons, ya know. And while
post-apocalyptic adventures don't readily mix with the normal image of
Traveller, it might be plausible in M:0. ("Oh my gosh! We've just activated
the native thermonuclear defense system and devastated the world! The IISS
isn't gonna like this...")
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 13:19:27 -0800
From: Gordon Horne <gordon.horne@home.com>
Subject: Re: Atlas of the Imperium
>Where could I get a copy of this Allworld file?
Anthony Jackson's Imperial trade maps and the allworld.txt file are
available at
http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/maps.html
Hmm...
Steve Jackson - Anthony Jackson, Gary Jackson - Timmy Jackson
Hmmmm...
TTFN
g
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 21:28:51 -0000
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2000 8:29 PM
Subject: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
> Recently I've been reading "Alas, Babylon", by Pat Frank. Then, I went
on
> Amazon.com to see what other people think about the book. Out of 128
> reviews, almost every one was five out of five stars. However, there
were
> those who gave it four, three, two, and one star(s). (One guy had the
nerve
> to give away the ending.) One of the prevailing comments was that the
idea
> of surviving nuclear war was ridiculous and out-dated. One person gave
it a
> less-than-perfect score simply because it featured Fort Repose
surviving a
> nuclear blast that occured 50 miles away, citing the Chernobyl
incident
> which irradiated a radius of hundreds of miles. But then again,
Chernobyl
> was a nuclear _plant_ and much larger than the average nuclear
missile.
>
> So, I was wondering: how large an area does an average thermonuclear
warhead
> irradiate, and what would it be like to live in an area just outside
(by
> five-ten miles) of a blast. And _is it_ possible to survive nuclear
war?
> Also, what would be the social impacts if it is? (I need to know for a
short
> story I'm writing.)
Well, 5-10 miles is still pretty deadly for any large nuke, and the
fallout will cover most of 30-50 miles downwind. Most fallout will decay
to 'safe' levels after a couple of weeks, though hotspots will still be
dangerous for years.
Basically, yes it *is* possible to survive a nuclear war, but the social
consequences are very dependent on how big the war was, and when it
occurred (If it occurs in late autumn, early winter, then any nuclear
winter effects on crops and plant life will tend to be reduced etc)
Basically, the effects are so unpredictable the writer/GM can pretty
much decide on whatever scenario they want and no-one can really gainsay
it. Until it ever happens no-one knows for sure just what the effects
will be, and theories are just that. After all, many learned men said
that travelling at faster than 20mph would rip the air out of peoples
lungs... Powered flight was dismissed as a fantasy any a few years
before the Wright Bros. flew at Kittyhawk etc etc.
Matt
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3302
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3303
Date: | 11/19/00 9:06:07 PM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Monday, November 20 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3303
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
RE: Meson Communications
Re: Subject: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Atlas of the Imperium
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Meson Communications
Re: More Traveller law
Re: Meson Communications
Re: One Year Anniversary MiniCon - San Jose Traveller Meet!
Re: More Traveller Jobs-Law
Re: More Traveller Jobs-Law
RE: One Year Anniversary MiniCon - San Jose Traveller Meet!
Re: Meson Communications
Re: More Traveller Jobs-Law
Radio Free Mongo Report!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 15:53:33 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
> Well, 5-10 miles is still pretty deadly for any large nuke, and the
> fallout will cover most of 30-50 miles downwind. Most fallout will decay
> to 'safe' levels after a couple of weeks, though hotspots will still be
> dangerous for years.
Actually, I meant outside of the dangerously radioactive area.
>
> Basically, yes it *is* possible to survive a nuclear war, but the social
> consequences are very dependent on how big the war was, and when it
> occurred (If it occurs in late autumn, early winter, then any nuclear
> winter effects on crops and plant life will tend to be reduced etc)
>
> Basically, the effects are so unpredictable the writer/GM can pretty
> much decide on whatever scenario they want and no-one can really gainsay
> it. Until it ever happens no-one knows for sure just what the effects
> will be, and theories are just that. After all, many learned men said
> that travelling at faster than 20mph would rip the air out of peoples
> lungs... Powered flight was dismissed as a fantasy any a few years
> before the Wright Bros. flew at Kittyhawk etc etc.
>
Thanks. A couple more questions, though:
1. How many nukes would it take to completely devastate the continental
United States?
2. How many nukes would it take to make Russia and China uncapable of
continuing a nuclear war (this is more of a handwave so that I can
concentrate on dosmestic matters)?
3. How serious would the effects of nuclear winter be in question no. 1
(assuming that a couple of missile were shot down before impact and thus
allowing for life to continue in a fairly small region (some sparsely
inhabited part of Texas, in fact))?
- -J. Jensen
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 15:21:07 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
On Sun, 19 Nov 2000, James Jensen wrote:
> Recently I've been reading "Alas, Babylon", by Pat Frank.
>
> So, I was wondering: how large an area does an average thermonuclear warhead
> irradiate, and what would it be like to live in an area just outside (by
> five-ten miles) of a blast. And _is it_ possible to survive nuclear war?
> Also, what would be the social impacts if it is? (I need to know for a short
> story I'm writing.)
Ahhhh..."Alas Babylon", our required 10th grade counterpoint read to
"On the Beach" so we wouldn't think a general thermonuclear war was a
"...and everyone dies, the end." downer.
This was important because we weren't supposed to be all anti-american and
anti-nuke, even though we were living in a city ringed by Titan missle
silos, about 15 minutes from a Soviet sub-launched first strike from the
Gulf of California.
That's fifteen minutes if the Soviets were nice enough to call us on the
phone and say 'I'm launching the missiles ..._now_'.
(hmmm...I guess I came by my cynicism rather early...)
There are a of of web sites with information on thermonuclear war and it's
effects. Here's a start:
http://www.fas.org/nuke/index.html there's a faq there on the effects of
nuclear explosions.
Briefly, though, the big-ass military thermonukes we would have tossed
around in this scenario are actually pretty clean from a radiation
standpoint; research has shown that the smaller yield weapons favored
today by the major powers are actually dirtier in terms of fallout.
Ground explosions are going to be dirtier than air bursts, but the fallout
doesn't travel as far. Fission bombs are going to be dirtier than fusion
ones.
So long as neither side gets flakey and drops the really nasty stuff (both
sides had modeled, and perhaps constructed, things like cobalt bombs,
_designed_ to have a massive amount of fallout, in order to 'deny the
enemy recovery', ie: kill everything and sow salt in the fields...)
radiation and fallout _may_ be survivable.
However, the actual blast effects alone would have been considerable. I've
not read it in years and years, but with a sizeable thermonuke, the house
those people were living in would have been flattened. And no real
consequences of the social disintegration that would occur with the
wholesale destruction of the civilian infrastructure. Or any idea of how
much food that many people eat.
Look at Somalia. Extend that to the entire US (or the world if it was a
generalized enough war) without whatever ameliorating influences foreign
relief organizations (and UN troops) have had.
My overall impression of Alas Babylon was that thermonuclear war would
have been incovenient, but nothing we couldn't just shrug off. :-/
Is it possible to survive thermonuclear war? Yes, humans have survived
some amazingly nasty stuff. Would it be fun? Not on your life. Would it be
like 'Alas Babylon'? Not even.
_Limited_ exchanges are another thing entirely, but a generalized war is
going to be nasty.
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 15:28:11 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
>
> 1. How many nukes would it take to completely devastate the continental
> United States?
A lot. It really depends on the size of the weapon and it's deployment. I
remember reading one estimate some time ago that a 100 megaton weapon
fired at the right height could start fires across several _states_
> 2. How many nukes would it take to make Russia and China uncapable of
> continuing a nuclear war (this is more of a handwave so that I can
> concentrate on dosmestic matters)?
A damn good question. Both have highly centralized command structures...a
decapitation strike might well do it. Or it might take more than we've got
due to their size.
> 3. How serious would the effects of nuclear winter be in question no. 1
> (assuming that a couple of missile were shot down before impact and thus
> allowing for life to continue in a fairly small region (some sparsely
> inhabited part of Texas, in fact))?
Bad. Real bad. You'd need at lot of stockpiled food to survive it.
Besides, sparsely inhabited sections of Texas are sparsely inhabited for a
REASON. Lack of water for farming is the usual one.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 16:40:37 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
> >
> > 1. How many nukes would it take to completely devastate the continental
> > United States?
>
> A lot. It really depends on the size of the weapon and it's deployment. I
> remember reading one estimate some time ago that a 100 megaton weapon
> fired at the right height could start fires across several _states_
>
How many would it take to collapse the federal government and cut off all
lines of communications and trade? Would it be more or less than in AB?
> > 2. How many nukes would it take to make Russia and China uncapable of
> > continuing a nuclear war (this is more of a handwave so that I can
> > concentrate on dosmestic matters)?
>
> A damn good question. Both have highly centralized command structures...a
> decapitation strike might well do it. Or it might take more than we've got
> due to their size.
Maybe I'll just have them involved in war with other countries, then.
>
> > 3. How serious would the effects of nuclear winter be in question no. 1
> > (assuming that a couple of missile were shot down before impact and thus
> > allowing for life to continue in a fairly small region (some sparsely
> > inhabited part of Texas, in fact))?
>
> Bad. Real bad. You'd need at lot of stockpiled food to survive it.
> Besides, sparsely inhabited sections of Texas are sparsely inhabited for a
> REASON. Lack of water for farming is the usual one.
>
In that case, what would be the most likely candidate for survival?
Mississippi? Georgia? Oregon? (Hey... that wouldn't be too bad... as a
sequel, I could follow suit with most post-apocalyptic movies and have them
fight over who the people REALLY elected as president there. ;-) [Florida
would be better for this, but that'd just be copying.]
ObTraveller: "Alas, Sylea"...
- -J. Jensen
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 10:23:06 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
On Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 02:29:50PM -0600, James Jensen wrote:
> ObTraveller: Well, the 3I still _has_ nuclear weapons, ya know. And while
> post-apocalyptic adventures don't readily mix with the normal image of
> Traveller, it might be plausible in M:0. ("Oh my gosh! We've just activated
> the native thermonuclear defense system and devastated the world! The IISS
> isn't gonna like this...")
Global thermonuclear war just doesn't have the same impact when it's
just one world of thousands. If it happened, imagine how many
starships would be involved in the rebuilding effort, shipping in
components of automated factories, emergency food supplies,
agricultural produce, etc.
One thing that has bothered me for a while -- why does the Imperium
have so little interstellar trade? It's so cheap!
Sure, potatoes will be a lot more expensive if you're shipping them 10
parsecs, but why isn't there 100 times more trade between planets in
neighbouring systems than depicted?
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 18:41:12 -0500
From: howard.anderson@psu.edu (Cheng Tseng)
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
>Ahhhh..."Alas Babylon", our required 10th grade counterpoint read to
>"On the Beach" so we wouldn't think a general thermonuclear war was a
>"...and everyone dies, the end." downer.
>
>This was important because we weren't supposed to be all anti-american and
>anti-nuke, even though we were living in a city ringed by Titan missle
>silos, about 15 minutes from a Soviet sub-launched first strike from the
>Gulf of California.
Once upon a time, when I was taking a US Naval History course at the
university, one of classmates told me that the city live outside was number
TWO on the USSR's "Place to Nuke" list.
I think I survived that knowledge well. Course, I thought the reasons for
why the city was "two" on the list were pretty flaky..
>There are a of of web sites with information on thermonuclear war and it's
>effects. Here's a start:
>
>http://www.fas.org/nuke/index.html there's a faq there on the effects of
>nuclear explosions.
When the American Experience series did a show on the development of the
hydrogen bomb (Race for the Superbonb was the episode's name IIRC.), they
had a special setup that allow you to type in your zip code and duplicate
the effect of a airburst or groundburst in your area. Fun.
>
>Briefly, though, the big-ass military thermonukes we would have tossed
>around in this scenario are actually pretty clean from a radiation
>standpoint; research has shown that the smaller yield weapons favored
>today by the major powers are actually dirtier in terms of fallout.
Nobody is planning to detonate a 10 MT groundburst just to destroy a city.
Tac nukes aimed at destroying imperialist forces or the Third Shock Army
aren't so contained.
C.T.
"Retiring student loans, one miserable cent at a time."
Cheng Tseng - Will econ forecast for food.
Search the Net and Make Some Cash:
http://www.catpile.com/index.shtml?refid=ctseng
http://www.searchcactus.com/member/welcome.asp?7024
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 18:45:53 -0500
From: howard.anderson@psu.edu (Cheng Tseng)
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
>> 2. How many nukes would it take to make Russia and China uncapable of
>> continuing a nuclear war (this is more of a handwave so that I can
>> concentrate on dosmestic matters)?
>
>A damn good question. Both have highly centralized command structures...a
>decapitation strike might well do it. Or it might take more than we've got
>due to their size.
You don't have to destroy all the country to destroy their ability to wage
nuclear war. The places to make and store the nukes themselves are easy to
hit. So can the silos and airbases.
And mobile ICBMs are not as easy a solution as it sounds.
And both nations never really were comfortable with boomers (Or V-bombers,
depending on which nation.) as oppose to the West.
C.T.
"Retiring student loans, one miserable cent at a time."
Cheng Tseng - Will econ forecast for food.
Search the Net and Make Some Cash:
http://www.catpile.com/index.shtml?refid=ctseng
http://www.searchcactus.com/member/welcome.asp?7024
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 16:17:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Meson Communications
<<Where that potted petunia came from, though, no one was ever able to
determine. >>
Or why it is rumored to have muttered, "oh no, not again."
=====
Gerry Harris
**********************************************************************************************
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**********************************************************************************************
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**********************************************************************************************
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 19:28:54 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Subject: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
James Jensen asks:
>
> So, I was wondering: how large an area does an average thermonuclear
warhead
> irradiate, and what would it be like to live in an area just outside (by
> five-ten miles) of a blast.
There are several websites dealing with this in various levels of detail --
for Twilight: 2000, we were forced to use a couple of government studies (the
internet being somewhat less useful in 1986 than today). I am sure you will
be suplied with numerous URLs from the members here.
> And _is it_ possible to survive nuclear war?
Depends on what you mean by "survive" which depends on what you mean by
nuclear war. GDW got several scathing letters on this general topic, the gist
of which was that by making a game that implied thermonuclear war was
survivable, we were hastening the end of the world as we know it.
> Also, what would be the social impacts if it is? (I need to know for a
short
> story I'm writing.)
Who knows? I don't claim to any more -- Twilight: 2000 is no longer a concern
of mine.
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 19:31:10 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Atlas of the Imperium
> Hmm...
> Steve Jackson - Anthony Jackson, Gary Jackson - Timmy Jackson
> Hmmmm...
My advice is not to think about it so much.
: )
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 19:37:02 -0800
From: "Delos" <delos@superior.net>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
> > So, I was wondering: how large an area does an average thermonuclear
warhead
> > irradiate, and what would it be like to live in an area just outside (by
> > five-ten miles) of a blast. And _is it_ possible to survive nuclear war?
> > Also, what would be the social impacts if it is? (I need to know for a
short
> > story I'm writing.)
A friend of mine sent me this link that I thought I'd share it with you all.
And since I'm not going to read the rest of the messages that have piled up
on this, I apologize if someone else has sent this already.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/bomb/sfeature/mapablast.html
Enjoy!
- -Delos-
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 19:36:42 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Meson Communications
Original Message:
<<Where that potted petunia came from, though, no one was ever able to
determine. >>
Or why it is rumored to have muttered, "oh no, not again."
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's all explained in "Life, the Universe, and Everything". (In case you're
interested, I've read every Hitchhiker's book/story except "Mostly Harmless"
and "Young Zaphod Plays It Safe" and I think that the first was the
funniest.)
- -J. Jensen
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 03:56:04 +0100
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: More Traveller law
Christopher Thrash writes:
>It is unclear whether the crimes that Mexal mentions (murder, rape, etc.)
>are covered by Imperial law.
I believe murder is, but with a twist: Murder is the UNLAWFUL killing of a
sophont, which means that if someone is executed according to a local law, it
isn't murder (Note: this is my interpretation, not canon).
>Certainly, though, Imperial officials have been sacked over lesser actions:
>
>"Charges were brought against Urshukaan after his post was taken over by an
>Imperial appointee. These accusations of excessive force, violation of
>various sophont rights codes, and embezzlement of tax revenues were
>dismissed." Adventure 11, Murder on Arcturus Station, p. 26. (1983)
My take: "Excessive force" is a violation of the Imperial Code of Military
Justice. "Various codes of sophont's laws" could be Imperial sophont's laws or
local sophont's laws. In the latter case the offense would be violation of the
Imperial membership treaty of the world in question. "Embezzlement of tax
revenues" is the same thing as stealing from the Emperor and would definitely be
an Imperial crime!!!
Hans
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 19:08:39 -0800
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
Subject: Re: Meson Communications
Hi James,
Very hard science. The properties of mesons that GDW used to make meson
guns and communicators is very well known and used in several particle
physics experiments. The technology, of course, isn't.
Kristian
James Jensen wrote:
>
> Are mesons a handwave or are they fairly hard science?
> -J. Jensen
> -----------------------------------------------
> FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com
> Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 19:15:56 -0800
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
Subject: Re: One Year Anniversary MiniCon - San Jose Traveller Meet!
Hi All,
The event went really well. Kevin's fajita dinner was great, the
pancake breakfast was good. Thanks to everyone who stayed the night and
contributed to the meals.
Operation Big Battle ended in the usual draw. However, the Rebels blew
up Ming's Pleasure Platform (probably a blow to Loyalist morale which
will end the civil war). We really tested the Striker rules (how do you
handle point defense against cluster bombs being dropped by a jet that
has over flown your position?).
Operation Low Tek will be renamed "Operation Bad Dog!" as the Vargr
invaders were repelled from the starport and on the verge of being
annihilated.
I didn't play "Operation RSSP" so I'll let Glenn comment on that.
The webcast didn't happen. :-(
We will probably meet again in early December and may try a different
game. Any suggestions.
Stay tuned,
Kristian
Kristian Miller wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> The San Jose Traveller Gamers will next meet on November 18 AND 19.
> We will start Saturday at 11:00 a.m. and end Sunday about 4:00 p.m.
>
> Featured Events:
> Mongo Rebellion/Operation Big Battle (Striker): on the big
> gaming table with the new terrain covering. This
> may be the final BIG battle. Ming's Internal
> Security Police will be involved; rumors that nukes
> WILL be thrown; and, maybe even Imperial intervention.
> Operation RSSP: Glenn Goffin's MegaTraveller campaign.
> Operation Low Tek: Luther Martin's requested Tech Level 5
> Striker game.
> San Jose Traveller Groups One Year Anniversary Barbecue!
> Cooking by a renown Vilani chef AND lots of
> cranberry juice.
>
> Location: Kristian Miller's place near I-680 & Highway 101.
> Email travellerne@3rd-imperium.com for directions.
>
> For information email:
> travellerne@3rd-imperium.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 02:06:05 -0500
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: More Traveller Jobs-Law
> From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu>
<snip>
> And heck, what self-respecting group of PCs couldn't put the squeeze
> to a mere Count? :)
Double heck! What self respecting group of pc's doesn't *include*
a count?
David Shayne
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 22:36:20 -0500
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: More Traveller Jobs-Law
David Shayne wrote:
> > From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu>
>
>> And heck, what self-respecting group of PCs couldn't put the squeeze
>> to a mere Count? :)
>
>Double heck! What self respecting group of pc's doesn't *include*
>a count?
Self-abuse is at the heart of every Traveller game.
Kenji
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 20:14:10 -0800
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: RE: One Year Anniversary MiniCon - San Jose Traveller Meet!
Kristian Miller wrote:
>Operation Big Battle ended in the usual draw. However, the Rebels blew
>up Ming's Pleasure Platform (probably a blow to Loyalist morale which
>will end the civil war). We really tested the Striker rules (how do you
>handle point defense against cluster bombs being dropped by a jet that
>has over flown your position?).
Unfortunately, those complex Striker rules took us quite a while to hash
through, so we only got through one, or was it two turns, in this game. But
they were extremely high-intensity, violent turns. The high TL stuff can get
really wierd. Everything is within effective range unless you are playing in
a gymnasium (we weren't). Grav vehicles can pop up at will and zap anyone on
the board. Rumors are that Ming escaped. More on this below.
>Operation Low Tek will be renamed "Operation Bad Dog!" as the Vargr
>invaders were repelled from the starport and on the verge of being
>annihilated.
Yes, our side won convincingly, killing about 70% or so of the Vargr while
taking minimal casualties, but this was mostly due to the lack of
familiarity with the rules concerning smoke. If we played again, things
would be very different. Under the cover of smoke they would have overrun
us, or at least won by occupying the starport as they needed to do. It was
one of those victories that it's really hard to feel good about. More of a
rules victory than a tactical victory.
Even those TL 5 4 cm autocannons can cover a huge area with smoke.
I have to say that the TL5 was extremely fun to play. More fun that the TL
10 stuff, at least the games involving lots of AFVs. Higher TLs might be
different if we just stuck to infantry.
>I didn't play "Operation RSSP" so I'll let Glenn comment on that.
The kickoff of RSSP was great. You would swear that you had actually been to
Regina. Suspicious things are afoot. Stay tuned.
>We will probably meet again in early December and may try a different
>game. Any suggestions.
I have heard rumors that Ming actually escaped the destruction of his secret
base, and is currently fleeing on one of his Azhanti High Lightning class
ships. Maybe a boarding action can resolve the Ming issue once and for all.
There must be some good way to play this out. Some way to simuate close
combat aboard a Azhanti High Lighting class ship. Azhanti High Lightning.
Why does that name sound familliar?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 15:22:39 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Meson Communications
On Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 07:08:39PM -0800, Kristian Miller wrote:
> Very hard science. The properties of mesons that GDW used to make meson
> guns and communicators is very well known and used in several particle
> physics experiments.
;^>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 21:00:04 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: More Traveller Jobs-Law
>From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu>
>Glenn Goffin wrote:
>
>>The Imperium does not get involved in local affairs at all. That is an
You replied:
>But given the "feudal" nature of Imperial rule -- with power &
>authority distributed to the sector level, mostly, it seems -- it's
>not a realm the size and power of the Imperium that deals with
>"disorder" in a given system, but a realm the size of a sector, or
>perhaps more likely a subsector. A sector duke is much more
>vulnerable to threats, I would think. And if you follow the
>pseudo-feudal logic farther, then the Imperial Counts would have some
>kind of Imperial authority over tiny little multi-system clusters.
I generally agree with your analysis. I just don't consider the nobility to
be exercising Imperial authority when they interfere in local matters.
Before the Imperium, it was their authority as local nobles (backed up by
the troops and ships their tax levies financed) that let them get away with
whatever. After the Imperium, they have to share some of that tax bounty
with an overlord, but they also have to worry less about the noble in the
next system or subsector mounting an actual invasion (lower level intrigue
and jockeying for power and position, up to and including assassination
attempts, continues as usual; that's part of noble life). The nobility (at
least the Solomani nobility descended from the early military governors)
still thinks of their power as coming from pre-Imperial bloodlines.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 21:00:07 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: Radio Free Mongo Report!
Citizens!!!
It is with great pleasure that I report that yesterday the Order to Oust the
Oppressive Overlord, of which I am but a subcommander, achieved a great
victory over the hated secret police and their evil master whose name I
shall not deign to utter. We had located the secret hiding place of that
hated hireling of the minerological machintors and we sent an armored force
to destroy it and kill or capture the craven conniver therein. Over thirty
of our brave blooded boys rushed in with armored personnel carriers from the
south and gladly gave up their lives to draw the fire of police and army
tanks while their bold brethren screamed down from the north and destroyed
tank after tank of army and secret police from the rear.
Our northern force of tempestuous tanks swarmed in to the center of the
overlord's position and destroyed many of his minions and their equipment at
close range. At the same time, two famous fighters flew a fantastic sortie
over the enemy's position, destroying the overlord's pathetic pleasure barge
and killing several political police.
Finally, our tanks punched powerfully with plasma weapons into the odious
opening of the oppressor's own underground bunker, destroying a police
vehicle secreted there. When I left the scene of the conflict to report to
our commanders and write this report to you, our tank personnel were
dismounting, collecting infantry weapons from the fallen enemy, and
preparing to chase the oppressor down into the baleful bowels of that
bloated bastion.
Long life to fighters for freedom! Make your marks and march with us,
citizens of Mongo!
I remain your ever faithful servant,
Subcommander Socram
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3303
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3304
Date: | 11/20/00 10:03:11 AM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Monday, November 20 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3304
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Heya: Farmers' war or race war?
re: Radio Free Mongo Report!
RE: Radio Free Mongo Report!
RE: FFN Stuff
RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Nuclear War
RE: Meson Communications
RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
RE: The universe is black and red
System Owners Info Request
Troop Transports & Sydkai Detached Cruiser
RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Ping?
RE: Ping?
RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Subject: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
RE: One Year Anniversary MiniCon - San Jose Traveller Meet!
Space Opera [was: Re: Radio Free Mongo Report!]
RE: Government Types
Re: Subject: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Subject: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Atlas of the Imperium
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 21:00:08 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: Heya: Farmers' war or race war?
Heya/Spinward Marches, 100-1116:
Spaceport Alpha, north of the Hamantt jungle. This reporter was covering
the story of new experiments in quadrotriticale farming in the cool farmland
north of the Hamantt jungle when a story related to, but not primarily
about, agriculture suddenly broke out. Vargr, refugees from the Fifth
Frontier War who had been settled on Heya by Imperial authorities after the
war, had necessarily tried their hand at farming. Politics, economics, and
their own ineptness as farmers had turned many of them into sharecroppers,
barely eking out a subsistence living on lands owned by human farmers whose
ancestors colonized Heya generations ago. Tensions between the primarily
urban Vargr, largely perceived by human Heyans as lawless and dangerous, and
humans in the capital city of Hilung had already reached a fever pitch some
months ago. Now something broke the patience of the tenant farmers. What
it was, I at least have not been able to discern.
What I was able to discern was a massive attack on Spaceport Alpha by a
Vargr tank battalion. How did a Vargr tank battalion, armed and equipped to
local tech level standards (i.e., TL 5), get here? Local officials have
more questions than answers. Nevertheless, some 70 red flame tanks,
sporting frightful tiger mouths and yellow and black markings, launched a
reckless assault in the direction of the spaceport at which the current
season's harvest of quadrotricale -- mostly grown and harvested by these
selfsame Vargr tenant farmers -- awaits pickup and transshipment to the
starport at Hilung.
The human Heyans were well prepared for the Vargr, however, in entrenched
positions with superior armored vehicles. Over the course of four or five
minutes, the Vargr lost three-quarters of their armored forces and all of
their aircraft, while inflicting only slight casualties on the humans
forces. The Vargr withdrew under cover of smoke.
- -o-
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 21:35:48 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: re: Radio Free Mongo Report!
Are we _sure_ that excessive use of alliteration isn't grounds
for Marine intervention? Please?
>Our northern force of tempestuous tanks swarmed in to the center of the
>overlord's position and destroyed many of his minions and their equipment at
>close range. At the same time, two famous fighters flew a fantastic sortie
>over the enemy's position, destroying the overlord's pathetic pleasure barge
>and killing several political police.
>
>Finally, our tanks punched powerfully with plasma weapons into the odious
>opening of the oppressor's own underground bunker...
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 21:52:54 -0800
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: RE: Radio Free Mongo Report!
>It is with great pleasure that I report that yesterday the Order to Oust
the
>Oppressive Overlord, of which I am but a subcommander, achieved a great
>victory over the hated secret police and their evil master whose name I
>shall not deign to utter. We had located the secret hiding place of that
>hated hireling of the minerological machintors and we sent an armored force
>to destroy it and kill or capture the craven conniver therein. Over thirty
>of our brave blooded boys rushed in with armored personnel carriers from
the
>south and gladly gave up their lives to draw the fire of police and army
>tanks while their bold brethren screamed down from the north and destroyed
>tank after tank of army and secret police from the rear.
It should be noted that the Mongo Secret Police were fully capable of
defending themselves, having a 100 kt nuclear weapon in their posession
(standard equipment on MSP armored squad cars). It was only through
exercising great restraint that the MSP decided not to incinerate the rebels
in a nuclear fireball, although this extremely humane decision cost them
dearly, in fact costing them their very lives as the rebels.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 19:28:08 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: FFN Stuff
MJ Dougherty wrote :
> Also, we need someone to do writeups of Traveller product for the
> listings. Not reviews, just what's in the book and what version it's
for...
Hey, Martin, I started doing some work on this a while back, but after I
tried asking you and the web-person where you wanted them sent and what
format you wanted the pictures (size, file format, colour depth, etc), I
gave up.
I've still got a pile of cover scans, and a little bit of the writing
somewhere if you can get me the above info.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:03:55 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
James Jensen wrote :
>
> One of the prevailing comments was that the idea
> of surviving nuclear war was ridiculous and out-dated.
And the idea of _not_ suviving a nuclear war is a modern politicaally
correct myth that trys to make the keeping and use of nuclear weapons seem
abhorrent to the unwashed masses who get most of their scientific
information in sound bites on the six o'clock news.
> One person gave it a less-than-perfect score simply because it featured
> Fort Repose surviving a nuclear blast that occured 50 miles away
Shows how much he knows. The Trams were running again in downtown Hiroshima
mere hours after the blast.
>, citing the Chernobyl incident which irradiated a radius of hundreds of
miles.
So ? Chernobyl may have irradiated a large area, but how any people did it
actually _kill_ ?
Sure, many people may have had their lifespans shortened, due to cancers and
other side effects of the irradiation, but Chernobyl only directly killed a
small number of people.
> But then again, Chernobyl
> was a nuclear _plant_ and much larger than the average nuclear missile.
And much dirtier than the majority of them as well.
> So, I was wondering: how large an area does an average
> thermonuclear warhead irradiate, and what would it be
> like to live in an area just outside (by
> five-ten miles) of a blast.
That would be nasty. Five to ten miles is well wihin the overpressure zone
for most modern weapons. You could survive that but only with adequate
protection.
> And _is it_ possible to survive nuclear war?
Of course it is.
It's the non-scientific greenies that think a nuclear war could destroy our
planet, unfortunately they're the ones that get all the press.
_Real_ studies show that die off from an all-out nuclear war, in other words
every nuclear weapon we've got exploding with maximum effect (assuming
standard targetting practices) , would still only result in an estimated
die-off of around 40% in the continental US, a bit higher in Europe , and
generally much, much lower in other countries.
The only real question is whether a "nuclear winter" effect would actuallly
occur or not.
While there are good arguments for it, the few examples of similar effects
in the past,
(in other words events that thru many millions of tons of gunk into the
upper atmosphere )actually resulted in the overall planetary temperature
_rising_ slightly
If a nuclear winter did occur, massive further die-off would occur, due to
lack of food supplies, but it would not kill everybody. If a nuclear winter
did not occur, then life would be easier.
The radiation problem is not a big deal unless you happen to be exposed to
it, and the majority of people would not be exposd to lethal (i.e lethal in
the short term) radiation unless they were stupid enough to enter the target
areas.
More people would likely have shortened life-spans from residual effects,
there would be more birth defects, etc, but humanity would survive.
> Also, what would be the social impacts if it is? (I need to know
> for a short story I'm writing.)
That's pretty much up to you. The one thing I think would happen, that most
stories of this sort have not covered, is that there would be an extremely
strong backlash against the countries involved in the war.
Their citizens would be pariahs, and they would be lucky to be allowed to
live out of their home countries.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:12:33 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
James Jensen
> > Well, 5-10 miles is still pretty deadly for any large nuke, and the
> > fallout will cover most of 30-50 miles downwind. Most fallout will decay
> > to 'safe' levels after a couple of weeks, though hotspots will still be
> > dangerous for years.
>
> Actually, I meant outside of the dangerously radioactive area.
As mentioned befoe it's the overpressure wave that is the dangerous thing,
not the radiation.
<snip>
> 1. How many nukes would it take to completely devastate the continental
> United States?
More than exist in the world at present.
> 2. How many nukes would it take to make Russia and China uncapable of
> continuing a nuclear war (this is more of a handwave so that I can
> concentrate on dosmestic matters)?
Many more than exist at present.
In order to continue a nuclear war you only need access to one breeder
reactor, or 'weapons grade plutonium', some explosives and some dedicated
personnel.
The question is whether there would be the political or social _will_ to
continue the war.
It's the conventional war that would be the decisive factor in any proposed
full-scale Russia/China/US confrontation, not the nuclear one.
> 3. How serious would the effects of nuclear winter be in question no. 1
> (assuming that a couple of missile were shot down before impact and thus
> allowing for life to continue in a fairly small region (some sparsely
> inhabited part of Texas, in fact))?
Depends on whether it happens or not, and if so, how severely.
It's still going to be surviivable, but it could be real bad, with only
'tropical'
countries being able to sustain life, or it could just mean two years of bad
crops.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 11:02:48 +0400
From: Andrew Long <andylong@emirates.net.ae>
Subject: Nuclear War
TW:2K obviously handled this to some degree. There were two articles in
Challenge, giving the target lists for the USA and USSR, and a whole
sourcebook for the UK ('Survivors guide to the UK...')
There was also a lot of information (much more than I wanted..) in the
final(?) sourcebook - Howling Wilderness.
ObTrav? When I saw the Hard Times sourcebook, my first reaction was 'all the
stuff they couldn't find room for in HW.'
regards, Andy
========================================================
Andrew Long eMail: Andylong@emirates.net.ae
c/o EPMTS Phone: +971 2 681 3100
P.O. Box 46426 Fax: +971 2 681 3802
Abu Dhabi GSM: +971 50 661 0254
United Arab Emirates
========================================================
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 12:18:39 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: Meson Communications
ROFLMAO!!!!!
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Bruce Johnson
> Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2000 8:54 AM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: RE: Meson Communications
>
>
> On Sat, 18 Nov 2000, James Jensen wrote:
>
> > Are mesons a handwave or are they fairly hard science?
> > -J. Jensen
>
> Lets put it this way: They'll never get hot, they're well-fanned by the
> moving appendages, and they're as soft as tapioca pudding.
>
> Actually I think we came up with the concept that mesons are an exotic
> particle discovered by the ancient Solomani physicist Bob Meson, and have
> been called 'mesons' in his honor.
>
> He never called them that, calling them 'unobtanicles' believing them to
> be the fundamental building blocks of the element 'unobtanium', a material
> reputed to have miraculous properties of incredible lightness, massive
> strength, ease of manufacture and permanently having that 'new car smell'.
>
> Sadly he never knew what he'd found, and continued his alchemist-like
> quest for the elusive 'unobtanium' until he died, broke and ridiculed at
> the age of 67.
>
> Two years later, a physicist working for the UNSCA Navy decided to use
> some high energy equipment on his off hours in a attempt to prove to some
> idiots on alt.conspiracies that Bob Meson was simply a nutcase, and not
> some uber-genius who was either
>
> a) killed by the CIA for knowing who
> killed Kennedy (The _important_ one, of course: John Jr.),
>
> b)kidnapped by the KGB and forced to make unobtanium for thier secret
> saucer-shaped stealth aircraft, or
>
> c) spirited away by the Greys in order to hide their secret plan to take
> over the world by putting small black labels on the backs of highway
> signs.
>
> To his everlasting surprise, Meson's 'unobtainicles' really existed, and
> had some amazing properties, which Bob had never been able to determine.
> (after all, you ARE limited in the energy ranges you can reach when your
> particle accelerator is composed of some auto exhaust pipe glued together
> with liquid muffler patch, a vaccuum cleaner, four car batteries wired in
> series and 400 foot of iron magnet wire purchased at the Ace Hardware
> store down the road.)
>
> After a feverish night of forging laboratory logs and notebooks, the
> physicist was able to present his work into high energy weapons research
> to his astonished superiors, who immediately recognized the utility of
> this new discovery in the ongoing war against the Vilani.
>
> They even forgave his destroying the particle accelerator and melting
> half his lab, most of the lab next door, and the two unfortunate lab techs
> tending late night experiments in that lab.
>
> Where that potted petunia came from, though, no one was ever able to
> determine.
>
> ;-)
>
> Bruce Johnson
> University of Arizona
> College of Pharmacy
> Information Technology Group
>
> Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 08:53:52 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
>
> A friend of mine sent me this link that I thought I'd share
> it with you all.
> And since I'm not going to read the rest of the messages that
> have piled up
> on this, I apologize if someone else has sent this already.
>
Not to the TML, but I've seen this a few times...buckets of fun to fuel your
megalomania!
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 09:03:09 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: The universe is black and red
For those of us who didn't see this on sunday, the correct link is now
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap001119.html
Dean
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Douglas E. Berry [mailto:gridlore@pop.mindspring.com]
> Sent: 19 November 2000 05:09
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: The universe is black and red
>
>
> Which, of course, us Traveller players have known for years.
>
> http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html
>
>
> --
>
> Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 01:17:53 -0800
From: Gordon Horne <gordon.horne@home.com>
Subject: System Owners Info Request
Could anyone tell me who the owners of the following systems are?
TIA
g
Dashuun (Delphi 0138)
Longshot (Empty Quarter 0140)
Kyogasaki (Empty Quarter 0840)
Mu (Empty Quarter 1533)
Ryt Thoudhutz (Spica 0501)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 09:27:49 +0000 (GMT)
From: RCID - Alun Moon <alun.moon@newcastle.ac.uk>
Subject: Troop Transports & Sydkai Detached Cruiser
Anthony Colosetti writes:
> Does anyone know of a good ship for the transport of a platoon of marines?
> I'm looking for something less than 1000 Dtons that can keep pace with a
> Fiery Class Gunned Escort. I'm also curious if anyone has ever drawn up
> deckplans for the Sydkai class Detached Cruiser. Thanks for your time...
>
> Anthony
Yes I have just such a Troop transport in an old Games Workshop
publication for Traveller. The Ilivar (if I remember the spelling
right), Caries 4 G-Carriers and their troops.
I'll dig out the Information tonight and contact you Tomorrow.
Alun
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 05:03:44 -0500
From: howard.anderson@psu.edu (Cheng Tseng)
Subject: RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
>> But then again, Chernobyl
>> was a nuclear _plant_ and much larger than the average nuclear missile.
>
>And much dirtier than the majority of them as well.
One thing to remember is that Chernobyl was packed with literally TONS of
weapons-grade fissionable material. Soviet-era tea-kettles tended to be
bomb-makers with a sideline in producing power for the civilian world.
So in essence, Chernobyl was like a huge bomb. A huge, dirty, groundburst
of a bomb.
C.T.
"Retiring student loans, one miserable cent at a time."
Cheng Tseng - Will econ forecast for food.
Search the Net and Make Some Cash:
http://www.catpile.com/index.shtml?refid=ctseng
http://www.searchcactus.com/member/welcome.asp?7024
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 10:34:53 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@exchange.rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: Ping?
Ping?
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 10:37:24 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Ping?
Ping :)
Dean
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Trevor, Peter [mailto:Peter.Trevor@exchange.rb.cwplc.com]
> Sent: 20 November 2000 10:35
> To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'
> Subject: Ping?
>
>
> Ping?
>
> Regards PLST
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 06:51:17 -0600
From: "Matthew W. Helton" <mwhelton@cox-internet.com>
Subject: RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Cheng Tseng
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2000 4:04 AM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
>> But then again, Chernobyl
>> was a nuclear _plant_ and much larger than the average nuclear missile.
>
>And much dirtier than the majority of them as well.
>One thing to remember is that Chernobyl was packed with literally TONS of
>weapons-grade fissionable material. Soviet-era tea-kettles tended to be
>bomb-makers with a sideline in producing power for the civilian world.
>So in essence, Chernobyl was like a huge bomb. A huge, dirty, groundburst
>of a bomb.
Chernobyl was not a breeder reactor. It's true they could have been making
Tritium, Polonium or other isotopes useful for nuclear weapons, but it was
not a true Plutonium breeder.
Soviet reactors do not run on weapons-grade Uranium fuel: Western reactors
run about 3% fissionable material, I read somewhere that Soviet power
generation reactors were on the order of 3% to 10%. Naval reactors end to
run hotter fuel: 90%+ pure for Western reactors. What made Chernobyl so bad
were two things: they used a graphite core reactor, which is physically very
weak: if any coolant were to flash into steam in the core, the core would be
heavily damaged; unfortunately this is exactly what happened. And the worst
thing of all was that Chernobyl's reactors had no containment buildings
surrounding the reactors. If a Chernobyl-type accident were to have happened
in a western reactor, there would have been no radioactive release. When
Chernobyl blew, the entire lid of the reactor core was blown asunder.
Isotopes of Cobalt, Cesium and Iron (mostly Iron-55) were released as a
result of the steam explosion and subsequent fire, not to mention some very
hot isotopes of Carbon, Iodine and Cadmium. The total fallout was not unlike
a Hiroshima bomb, albiet mostly invisible. Chernobyl is still a timebomb of
sorts; the concrete sarcophagous they erected around it is not sound, and is
nowhere near air or watertight. They still have to douse the core with a
boron/water mix every now and then due to the shifting mass of "Corium"
causing small criticalities.
There is a plan being floated here in the U.S. to try a dilute plutonium as
a nuclear fuel in an existing plant to start using the huge stockpile: tests
are to start in 2003.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 21:59:37 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Subject: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
> From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
> > And _is it_ possible to survive nuclear war?
>
> Depends on what you mean by "survive" which depends on what you mean by
> nuclear war. GDW got several scathing letters on this general topic, the
> gist of which was that by making a game that implied thermonuclear war
> was survivable, we were hastening the end of the world as we know it.
I'll confess that I gave T2K a miss on grounds of bad taste. I eventually
bought the vehicle guides in order to milk them for TNE. They had been
marked down.
The "You are a soldier in the US 5th Division, in the middle of Poland, and
WWIII just ended" advertising missed me a bit, too. It was kind of: "No
I'm not, why am I in Poland, and I kiss my a** goodbye." Oh well, GDW got
enough cash off me anyway.
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 22:09:35 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: RE: One Year Anniversary MiniCon - San Jose Traveller Meet!
> From: "Luther Martin"
> The high TL stuff can get really wierd. Everything is within effective
> range unless you are playing in a gymnasium (we weren't).
Hey, what's that sound? It sounds like - munchkins!
This range thing sounds like perfect munchkin bait: use weapons and other
gear that can cover the table, and no more.
The sad thing is that there are gamers out there who would indulge in this
kind of thing.
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 09:06:41 -0500
From: Jonathan McDermott <caraig@mindspring.com>
Subject: Space Opera [was: Re: Radio Free Mongo Report!]
>Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 21:00:07 -0800
>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
>Subject: Radio Free Mongo Report!
>
>Citizens!!!
<snip>
The tone of this post just makes me want to get up and do 'Lensman' and
'Rocketjock' career paths for CT. =)
"Okay, make your rolls for survival, position, promotion, decoration, and
saving the alien princess in the stark nick of time amidst a hail of beams
of actinic fury."
Has anyone tried to combine space opera with hard science in their Trav
games? I think it's safe to say that the vocal majority of Trav players
are hard science gearheads, but what about those who prefer space opera?
Cheers
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 09:46:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: RE: Government Types
Jeff Zeitlin writes:
>>>It seems odd to me that a religious dictatorship is a type D
>>>government. This requires a MINIMUM population of one-hundred
>>>million! But most religious dictatorships in history have been
>>>small, primitive tribes in Africa and Central America, haven't
>>>they?
>>Afghanistan and Iran are hardly 'small, primitive tribes'.
>>Nor in fact was Egypt during, foex, the reign of Rameses II.
>>Tibet under the Dalai Lama's was also, essentially, a religious
>>dictatorship, pretty absolute in fact.
>But I'm not sure his point is damaged; none of those come close to having
>the 100 000 000 minimum population the rules require to generate a Type D
>government.
There are only, what, 6 countries on current Terra with at least 100
million citizens? Perhaps 2 with at least 1 billion citizens. None
with
anywhere near 10 billion citizens. It is probably more fruitful to
consider trends rather than specific population-government type
levels. The question would then be: is there any indication that
type D governments are associated with smaller populations than
type A governments (for example)?
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 06:51:59
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Subject: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
At 09:59 PM 11/20/2000 +1000, you wrote:
>I'll confess that I gave T2K a miss on grounds of bad taste. I eventually
>bought the vehicle guides in order to milk them for TNE. They had been
>marked down.
It was all how you played it. I was in one game that lasted over a year of
steady play, ans we ended up in Germany at the last operating nuclear
poewer plant, helping to rebuild local civilization.
>The "You are a soldier in the US 5th Division, in the middle of Poland, and
>WWIII just ended" advertising missed me a bit, too. It was kind of: "No
>I'm not, why am I in Poland, and I kiss my a** goodbye." Oh well, GDW got
>enough cash off me anyway.
You're in Poland becase that's where the fighting is! (or was..) It is no
more a clumsy intro than "you are in a bar, and yhis guy needs you to
transport 50 tons of Fizzy-Wizz to Regina.."
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 15:23:56 +0000
From: Rob Myers <robm@h2g2.com>
Subject: Re: Subject: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
>
> At 09:59 PM 11/20/2000 +1000, you wrote:
>
> >I'll confess that I gave T2K a miss on grounds of bad taste.
I almost bought T2K after "The Morrow Project" fizzled out. It's less
bad taste than, say "Keep On The Borderlands"-era D&D dungeon bashes or
the average Mercenary ticket because you actually have a framing
moral/social context for your actions. The only genuinely bad taste
thing about it was the supplement for Bangcock...
> You're in Poland becase that's where the fighting is! (or was..) It is no
> more a clumsy intro than "you are in a bar, and yhis guy needs you to
> transport 50 tons of Fizzy-Wizz to Regina.."
If anyone from Regina (or the bar) objects to the 3I's portrayal of it
as the perfect site for a tactical nuclear war that won't kill too many
citizens of Capitol, I'm sure they'll let us know. :-)
- - Rob.
- --
Rob Myers - http://www.robmyers.org/ H2G2 - http://www.h2g2.com/
MacOS wonderfulness for The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy Game.
"Smash Global Capitalism! Spend less money!"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 12:59:41 -0500
From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: Atlas of the Imperium
James Jensen wrote:
> Is the Atlas better (ie, more complete) than Anthony's files? Just wondering
>if it was worth buying.
'Atlas of the Imperium' is actually one of the very few CT products I don't own, but I have perused others' copies. The book consists of nothing but sector maps, with the info normally found on the maps (starport type, bases, gas giant, etc) but only names for HiPop worlds. IIRC there are no X-boat/trade routes marked. Also, the maps are printed on offset-square grids rather than hex-grids, which makes them very ugly.
Considering that in later years most/all of this info has found its way online, and with prettier maps to boot, I'd say there's really no need to get this book (especially at the price you'd have to pay) unless you are a collector. What's more, AotI is going to be included in the FFE reprint series, so if you're patient you'll eventually be able to pick it up together with Tarsus, Beltstrike, Spinward Marches Campaign, and Alien Realms -- and all for less than AotI alone would probably cost you on ebay!
Trent
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3304
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3305
Date: | 11/20/00 5:33:37 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Monday, November 20 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3305
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Railgun mailing list
Otrai
Re: Otrai
re: Radio Free Mongo Report!
RE: Radio Free Mongo Report!
re: Space Opera [was: Re: Radio Free Mongo Report!]
Re: Radio Free Mongo Report!
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Atlas of the Imperium
re: Space Opera [was: Re: Radio Free Mongo Report!]
Re: Life on the edge
Re: Life on the edge
RE: More Traveller Jobs-Law
Re: Government Code
Re: Lasers
Re: Lasers
Re: More Traveller Jobs-Law
Re: More Traveller Jobs-Law
Re: World/System Generators?
Planetary mechanics questions
Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
Re: Planetary mechanics questions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 10:50:46 -0800
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Railgun mailing list
Help.
I've lost the info for the railgun mailing list, and want to resubscribe.
Anyone have any info?
Thanks, Tod
- ----
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
- ----
Tod Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.travellerguns.com
http://www.solsec.org
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 19:00:06 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: Otrai
Hi peeps,
Anyone know where the Otrai are emntioned? Loren's GT: Humaniti post had
them in JTAS 13, but I can't find 'em.
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 08:22:07 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Otrai
On 20 Nov 00, at 19:00, Jones, Dean wrote:
> Hi peeps,
> Anyone know where the Otrai are emntioned? Loren's GT: Humaniti post had
> them in JTAS 13, but I can't find 'em.
They are (very briefly) mentioned in the amber zone "lockbox". Basically a
blank canvas to develop with a few little hints.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 12:20:42 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: re: Radio Free Mongo Report!
>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)
> Are we _sure_ that excessive use of alliteration isn't grounds for Marine
intervention? >
1) In Mongon culture, the ability to alliterate on the spot is the mark of
extreme erudition. The letter "M" is the most prized in this pursuit.
Children start alliterating at very early ages; even babies' nonsense words
often alliterate, particularly among the upper classes.
Virtually all government organizations have three to five letter acronymns
that are all the same letter: MMMM, Ming's Mystical Mongo Militia is the
secret police; MMM, the Mining and Machinery Ministry, administers matters
of mining and refining ore; FF, Fisheries Foresters, is the branch of the
government that deals with nature conservation; MMM, the Ministry of
Motivational Madness, deals with mental health (not to be confused with MMM;
see supra); etc.
2) Blame this idea on Kristian Miller, who conceived it (and on me, who
liked it enough to put it into the Mongo landgrab (which is still not
written)).
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 12:20:44 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Radio Free Mongo Report!
>From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
>It should be noted that the Mongo Secret Police were fully capable of
>defending themselves, having a 100 kt nuclear weapon in their posession
>(standard equipment on MSP armored squad cars). It was only through
>exercising great restraint that the MSP decided not to incinerate the
rebels
>in a nuclear fireball, although this extremely humane decision cost them
>dearly, in fact costing them their very lives as the rebels.
The rebels overheard police radio chatter that indicated that some officers
wanted the use the nuke as soon as the rebel tanks appeared. The only way
to get the missile off without it being destroyed by rebel point defense
fire, however, would have involved detonating it while the police car was
still in the primary blast radius -- a suicide move.
The closest rebel tank destroyed the police car with its plasma main gun.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 12:30:48 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: re: Space Opera [was: Re: Radio Free Mongo Report!]
>From: Jonathan McDermott <caraig@mindspring.com>
>The tone of this post just makes me want to get up and do 'Lensman' and
>'Rocketjock' career paths for CT. =)
>
>"Okay, make your rolls for survival, position, promotion, decoration, and
>saving the alien princess in the stark nick of time amidst a hail of beams
>of actinic fury."
>
>Has anyone tried to combine space opera with hard science in their Trav
>games? I think it's safe to say that the vocal majority of Trav players
>are hard science gearheads, but what about those who prefer space opera?
In fact, my post was a report of Saturday's Striker game at the San Jose
minicon (celebrating one year of monthly meetings to play Traveller games
(for the first time, we actually played Traveller, the role playing game, as
well)). Striker is about as gearheaded as Traveller gets, and we follow the
rules, particularly the design rules, strictly.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 12:34:21 -0800
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: Re: Radio Free Mongo Report!
Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> The rebels overheard police radio chatter that indicated that some
officers
> wanted the use the nuke as soon as the rebel tanks appeared. The only way
> to get the missile off without it being destroyed by rebel point defense
> fire, however, would have involved detonating it while the police car was
> still in the primary blast radius -- a suicide move.
No more suicidal than facing a platoon of grav tanks armed with plasma guns.
In any case, any member of the Mongo Secret Police would gladly sacrifice
his life to protect Ming against the relentless rampaging rabid rebel
rabble.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:23:27 +0000
From: Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
At 00:00 -0500 20/11/00, howard.anderson@psu.edu (Cheng Tseng) wrote:
>When the American Experience series did a show on the development of the
>hydrogen bomb (Race for the Superbonb was the episode's name IIRC.), they
>had a special setup that allow you to type in your zip code and duplicate
>the effect of a airburst or groundburst in your area. Fun.
I linked the site from my own website -
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ on the links page. I think that
it's called 'Map - A - Blast' and lets you drop a 1MT Groundburst or
a 25 MT airburst.
Dom
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:51:52 +0000
From: Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
At 12:59 -0500 20/11/00, "Matthew W. Helton" <mwhelton@cox-internet.com> wrote:
> >So in essence, Chernobyl was like a huge bomb. A huge, dirty, groundburst
> >of a bomb.
It was only a bomb in such a way that the combination of a hydrogen
explosion scattering the reactor core's fissile material would make
it so.
> Soviet reactors do not run on weapons-grade Uranium fuel:
>Western reactors
>run about 3% fissionable material, I read somewhere that Soviet power
>generation reactors were on the order of 3% to 10%. Naval reactors end to
>run hotter fuel: 90%+ pure for Western reactors.
Reason: Increases the power / size performance.
>What made Chernobyl so bad
>were two things: they used a graphite core reactor, which is physically very
>weak: if any coolant were to flash into steam in the core, the core would be
>heavily damaged; unfortunately this is exactly what happened.
Steam splits to H2 and O, resulting explosion is hydrogen one....
> And the worst
>thing of all was that Chernobyl's reactors had no containment buildings
>surrounding the reactors. If a Chernobyl-type accident were to have happened
>in a western reactor, there would have been no radioactive release. When
>Chernobyl blew, the entire lid of the reactor core was blown asunder.
Bear in mind that though there was no real secondary containment like
a Western Reactor, I suspect that the safety cases would not have
considered the likelihood of a thousand tonne lid (secured by its own
weight) being blown off, crashing through the roof facilities then
landing back in the reactor, causing massive damage.
>Isotopes of Cobalt, Cesium and Iron (mostly Iron-55) were released as a
>result of the steam explosion and subsequent fire, not to mention some very
>hot isotopes of Carbon, Iodine and Cadmium. The total fallout was not unlike
>a Hiroshima bomb, albiet mostly invisible. Chernobyl is still a timebomb of
>sorts; the concrete sarcophagous they erected around it is not sound, and is
>nowhere near air or watertight. They still have to douse the core with a
>boron/water mix every now and then due to the shifting mass of "Corium"
>causing small criticalities.
It's one of those things where the Western Governments all wring
their hands about the state of it, but won't release funds to help
build a new secure sarcophagus. :-/
> There is a plan being floated here in the U.S. to try a
>dilute plutonium as
>a nuclear fuel in an existing plant to start using the huge stockpile: tests
>are to start in 2003.
The facility to manufacture such fuel was started in the early
nineties here in the UK. I believe that the French nuclear utility
(Cogema?) has also looked at it. MOX (mixed oxide fuel) has already
been successfully supplied to Japanese and Swiss (?) companies and
run okay. It was already a commercial proposition but has effectively
gone on hold because BNFL (who were manufacturing it) shipped a set
of fuel rods which were dimensionally out of specification to the
Japanese. Note that the degree by which this was was not unsafe in
itself but the failure of the QA system and the CEO being caught out
lying (or misinforming if you are being generous) that it was a
minor one off issue that caused the current PR issues (*). Of course,
use of MOX leads to fuel shipments with higher Plutonium levels.
Which our green chums in Greenpeace etc don't like.
Unfortunately, possible the best fission method is ruled out as it is
Pu based. There are inherent safeties in the fast reactors, but
they're unlikely to ever come to fruition.
Dom (saying nearly as much as he can legally)
(*) There are really two issues; technical (a measurement system
impact on product specification) and processes (the QA system
problems).
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:24:56 +0000
From: Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Atlas of the Imperium
At 00:00 -0500 20/11/00, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> > Hmm...
> > Steve Jackson - Anthony Jackson, Gary Jackson - Timmy Jackson
> > Hmmmm...
>
>My advice is not to think about it so much.
>
> : )
If you throw in the UK Steve Jackson then there are 5 of them....
Dom
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 16:17:50 -0500 (EST)
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
Subject: re: Space Opera [was: Re: Radio Free Mongo Report!]
On Mon, 20 Nov 2000, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> >From: Jonathan McDermott <caraig@mindspring.com>
>
> >The tone of this post just makes me want to get up and do 'Lensman' and
> >'Rocketjock' career paths for CT. =)
> >
> >"Okay, make your rolls for survival, position, promotion, decoration, and
> >saving the alien princess in the stark nick of time amidst a hail of beams
> >of actinic fury."
> >
> >Has anyone tried to combine space opera with hard science in their Trav
> >games? I think it's safe to say that the vocal majority of Trav players
> >are hard science gearheads, but what about those who prefer space opera?
I'm definitely going to have to dig out my copy of E. E. "Doc" Smith's
"Lensman" series (although I'm not sure Lensmen ever *really* retire, if
the antics of Kimball Kinnison are at all representative, it's easy to
envision undercover Lensmen tagging along with ordinary "Traveller"
characters).
- J. Raynor
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 08:23:51 +1100
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au>
Subject: Re: Life on the edge
> From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
> Subject: RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
>
> And the idea of _not_ suviving a nuclear war is a modern politicaally
> correct myth that trys to make the keeping and use of nuclear weapons seem
> abhorrent to the unwashed masses who get most of their scientific
> information in sound bites on the six o'clock news.
Rather than a, if you will forgive the pun, sterile debate on the effects of
a modern nuclear war, lets pull this ObTrav and talk about the sort of
disaster relief effort the Imperium would put in following, say, the Ine
Givar nuke on Pretoria.
Who would be in charge of the project ? My guess is that the nominal project
head would be the highest-ranking Imperial noble on the planet.
Who would be involved ? At a guess, the IN would be assigned for 'big'
planets, while the IISS would get most of the responsibility for smaller,
lo-tech places. On the other hand, a corp of some sort may be 'informed' of
their opportunity to serve the Imperium as a whole.
At a guess, you would also have private interests volunteering as well -
which may not go down too well with the locals, if that well-financed
disaster relief effort is being aimed at preserving the habitat of the
Wahrichi Bird, rather than at rebuilding the human infrastructure.
Ian Whitchurch
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:23:56 -0500 (EST)
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
Subject: Re: Life on the edge
On Tue, 21 Nov 2000, Katharine Whitchurch wrote:
> > From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
> > Subject: RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
> >
> > And the idea of _not_ suviving a nuclear war is a modern politicaally
> > correct myth that trys to make the keeping and use of nuclear weapons seem
> > abhorrent to the unwashed masses who get most of their scientific
> > information in sound bites on the six o'clock news.
>
> Rather than a, if you will forgive the pun, sterile debate on the effects of
> a modern nuclear war, lets pull this ObTrav and talk about the sort of
> disaster relief effort the Imperium would put in following, say, the Ine
> Givar nuke on Pretoria.
>
> Who would be in charge of the project ? My guess is that the nominal project
> head would be the highest-ranking Imperial noble on the planet.
The Imperium doesn't have very many laws, and doesn't ask very much from
the worlds it rules over, but keeping weapons-of-mass-destruction under
control seems to be one of the few things it takes very seriously indeed.
I'd say that as soon as such a weapon gets used, the planetary government
with jurisdiction over "ground zero" is going to find itself in *very*
deep trouble. All sorts of Imperial authorities (the local noble, his or
her superiors within the feudal hierarchy, the commanders of the nearest
Imperial military garrison, and so on) will race to be the first to jump
down the planetary government's throat, and demand to know "How could you
let such a thing happen?" There will be investigations, and heads *will*
roll. If the planetary government is lucky, it *might* be able to remain
in control. If it's not lucky, the region will find itself under direct
Imperial authority "until the crisis is over and order has been restored."
Yeah, I can see the Imperium supplying some form of disaster relief
(probably organized by the subsector duke), but what the Imperium would
be more likely to supply would be lots of marines and counter-terrorism
agents of some sort or another.
- J. Raynor
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:50:37 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
Subject: RE: More Traveller Jobs-Law
On Sun, 19 Nov 2000 16:27:00 -0500 (EST), "Terry Carlino"
<carlino@home.com> wrote:
>All depends on whether or not the Count can call up a couple of companies of
>Imperial Marines. Say doesn't Count Yori have that little group of boy
>scouts, Four Hundred and Eighteenth something or other....
I suspect that you're thinking of _Baron_ Yori, and no, he has no authority
over the 418... Those huscarles belong to the Duke of Regina.
(Norris's various titles are theoretically separable; identity of person
does not mean interchangeability of title in any given situation.)
(Norris is Archduke of Deneb, Duke of Regina, Count Aledon, Marquis of
Regina, Baron Yori.)
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
(Ask me via email about the ILink message network!)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 14:26:16 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Government Code
In mail you write:
> Does it seem odd to anyone that a religious dictator ship is government D
> when historically its been the small, primitive tribes that are like this?
I take it you've never hear of Iran? And the Ayotollah Khomeni?
It's perfectly possible to have a religious dictatorship in an
"advanced" country.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 14:31:07 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Lasers
In mail you write:
> Leonard Erickson writes:
>> In mail you write:
>>
>> > Okay, this might sound a little silly, but I'm just a Law student who
>> > likes Traveller, but knows next to nothing about science. Lasers inflict
>> > their damage by heat, right?
>>
>> Only low powered ones do.
>>
>> High powered lasers do their damage by depositing so much energy in
>> the target spot, so fast, that the material *explodes*.
>
> Well, that's heat too ;). Any laser that wants to penetrate armor is going
> to need to generate a high degree of focus and burn/blast through, however;
> surface explosions are just not an efficient way to penetrate armor.
It's a bit different when it's the *armor* that's doing the explosion. :-)
Also, if you get up to X-ray lasers, then a substantial portion of the
energy will pentrates anywhere from a few mm to a fair number of *cm*
before being absorbed. Armor *really* doesn't like it when the
explosion is several cm into a plate that's less than a meter thick. :-)
>> Higher powered lasers don't merely heat air, they convert it to a
>> plasma (an ionized gas). This causes portions of the beam path to
>> *glow* (some day I have to track down and scan a picture from an
>> article I read showed a laser beam in a lab where this was happening.
>> It looks like a bad special effect!)
>
> Since plasmas are also considerably more opaque than air, it probably
> means a real weapons-grade laser would have truly terrible
> atmospheric range.
It is a problem, that's why there are "preferred" wavelengths. And
pulse lasers tend to do better. They can "blast" a hole in the
atmosphere, and fire another pulse after the plasma has (mostly)
neutralized, but before the air can rush back in.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 14:37:13 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Lasers
In mail you write:
> Homework problem to clarify how lasers behave in Traveller:
>
> 1. Assume that the damage of a laser weapon in TNE is propoprtional to the
> beam energy. Use the TNE laser weapon damage tables to estimate the complex
> index of refraction of air at the laser's frequency. What is the likely
> source of this interaction with the atmosphere? What atmospheric window is
> probably being used for the low-TL lasers? Are the TL 13+ weapons probably
> visible or invisible wavelengths?
The transparency of air varies *greatly* with wavelength. The index of
refraction isn't all that important once adaptive optics are developed.
UV and X-rays aren't well suited to use in an atmosphere as the opacity
of air at those wavelengths gets really bad, really fast.
IR has some "windows" where it propogates better. But as I recall,
visible light is pretty much the "best" wavelength range for passing
thru an earthlike atmosphere. You have to get down into the "T-ray"
range (terahertz radiation) before you get comparable transparency.
> 5. What pulse duration is needed to avoid photoionization of the atmosphere
> by a laser rifle pulse?
I don't think you can. Not and still deliver a useful amount of energy
to the target. As I recall, ionization depends on power per cm^2 of the
beam cross-section. And since for a given energy at target, you need to
raise the energy in direct proportion to the reduction of the pulse
duration, it's a no win situation.
> 6. How will a ship's laser behave if fired in a planet's atmosphere?
Well, it ought to be *really* spectacular!
For that matter, kinetic kill ordnance dropped from orbit will be
rather visible as well. A Scientific American back in the 80s had a
picture of some warheads re-entering over Kwajalien Atoll. The pictures
was taken in *daylight* and the warheads were *very* visible as the
bright white *lines* from the sky to the ground.
That's a "minor" detail you never saw in any of the many stories about
nuclear wars.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 14:56:20 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: More Traveller Jobs-Law
In mail you write:
> There are two notable exceptions to the general statement that the Imperium
> does not get involved in local affairs at all. One is calendar compliance.
> The equivalent of a loyalty oath in the early days of Imperial expansion was
> the adoption of the Imperial calendar. Today it is routinely used by
> everyone within the Imperium, but it is a treaty violation for a world
> government to promulgate and use another calendar. (A religion using its
> own calendar does not get into trouble unless the church is also the
> government.)
Sorry, not *possible*.
The Imperial calendart may be used or even required for some things
(mostly involving interstellar activities), but worlds *have* to be
allowed a local calendar.
Consider that both the length of the year and the length of the local
*day* (sol) vary *widely* from world to world. And that there are many
activities that *require* you to use the local day or the local year.
So "forbidding" use of other calendars is a non-starter.
But having the Imperial calendar as a "common ground" for setting
delivery dates, shipping and passenger schedules etc, is a *good*
thing.
So *use* of the Imperial calendar can easily be required. *Exclusive*
use can't.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 15:02:24 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: More Traveller Jobs-Law
In mail you write:
> Glenn Goffin wrote:
>
>>The Imperium does not get involved in local affairs at all. That is an
>>essential part of the membership treaties between the Imperium and member
>>states, but, more importantly, the core of the unwritten social contract
>>between the Imperium and its members. An act that constitutes murder if
>>committed in a starport (where Imperial law controls) might be no crime at
>>all across the extrality line. The Imperium is simply not concerned with
>>local affairs, involving individual citizens, unless the peace of the realm
>>becomes threatened. A realm of the size and power of the Imperium has a
>>very high threshhold for feeling threatened.
>
> But given the "feudal" nature of Imperial rule -- with power &
> authority distributed to the sector level, mostly, it seems -- it's
> not a realm the size and power of the Imperium that deals with
> "disorder" in a given system, but a realm the size of a sector, or
> perhaps more likely a subsector. A sector duke is much more
> vulnerable to threats, I would think. And if you follow the
> pseudo-feudal logic farther, then the Imperial Counts would have some
> kind of Imperial authority over tiny little multi-system clusters.
>
> And heck, what self-respecting group of PCs couldn't put the squeeze
> to a mere Count? :)
But given the fuedal nature of the Imperium, that "mere Count" can call
on whoever he is in fief to for aid. Which could get *real* ugly.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 15:04:42 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: World/System Generators?
In mail you write:
>>>One of the things I've done is weed out binaries where one component is
>>>going to mess up potential planets, or where one is a white dwarf and
>>>presumably mucked up the joint when it evolved off the main sequence.
>>
>>Actually, that "mucking up" might actually make the remaining planets
>>more valuable.
>
> ?? You know something I don't know. Give me details! I was under the
> impression that having one component of a binary star evolve off the main
> sequence pretty much precluded the continuing existance of earthlike planets
> in the same system. All that nasty red gianting and puffing off of the outer
> layers is bad for the biosphere (someone call Al Gore!)
That's right. It also tends to boil off all those nuisance light
elements (aluminum, silicon, etc) leaving behind bodies rich in heavy
metals.
You want *really* "interesting" planets, consider the ones that form
*after* a supernova (yes, we've detected pulsars that have planets, and
as I understand it, the dynamics are such that they had to have formed
*after* the explosion, out of the nebula). They'd likely be *very* rich
in all sorts of odd, "short" lived isotopes.
Of course, aproaching them without getting fried by the pulsar is going
to be tricky.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 16:18:27 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: Planetary mechanics questions
For the astronomer and astrophysicists out there, I pose the following
questions:
Regina is a size 7 world (7,000 miles in diameter). It rotates on its axis
in 25.5 hours. It orbits the gas giant Assiniboia in 80 standard days.
Assiniboia orbits the star Lusor in 400 standard days.
For how many days out of each 80 day orbit is Regina in Assiniboia's shadow?
How would I figure that out?
Regina's orbit around Assiniboia brings it closer and farther to Lusor in an
80 day cycle. How can I figure out how much warmer and cooler it gets?
Finally, how much of the sky does Assiniboia cover?
Thank you for your consideration of these questions.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 16:39:55 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
In mail you write:
> I'm using the latest version of H&E (MT rules) and it seems like I get a lot
> of extreme temperatures for worlds. Especially M class stars (-200+ degrees
> C!).
With a Class M dwarf, you have to be really, *really* close to the star
to have anything approaching "normal" temps.
With a Class M giant, the "life zone" *moves* as the star leaves the
main sequence, and it does so too fast for life to arise on any planets
that get warm enough as it moves out. And then after only a million or
less years the star either goes supernova, or collapses into a white
dwarf. Neither is "life friendly". :-)
> I've looked on the net (and found a chat log with the Berry's) but
> haven't really found any info on this issue. Is it an error with the rules?
> (MT, WBH, etc. I still haven't quite figured out the Scouts Book 6 temp
> formula, I need help on that) With the program? Or, do Travellers really
> need that cold/hot weather clothing from their ships locker?
Compare the conditions on Mars and Venus to those on Earth. Orbital
radius makes a *big* difference. And the smaller the star the bigger
the difference.
> Perhaps a 767 world isn't going to be a "habitable" world very often?
Probably not. *Most* stars are class M dwarfs. And as noted, getting a
planet at the "right" distance to be habitable is very difficult.
Since spectral class and size are *linked* for "main sequence" stars,
the bigger (and hotter) the star, the wider the "life zone" (area where
planetary temps are what we'd find usable, roughly between the freezing
and boiling points of water).
But the bigger the star, the faster it "burns". Anything above class F
is going to be awfully short lived for the development of life (and
thus of a breathable atmosphere).
Heck, it'll take a long time for the original ammonia/methane/water
atmosphere to turn into a nitrogen/CO2/water atmosphere. (Anybody have
an idea *how* long?) I do know it'll be slower with less UV (K & M
class stars) and faster with more UV (O, B, A, & F class stars).
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 12:30:13 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Planetary mechanics questions
On Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 04:18:27PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> For how many days out of each 80 day orbit is Regina in Assiniboia's
> shadow? How would I figure that out?
The only thing that is relevant here is the orbital period around
Assiniboia. It would also be nice to know Assiniboia's density, but
it doesn't have a strong effect on the outcome.
(The ratio between the orbital periods of Regina and Assiniboia should
not actually be near an integral multiple of each other. Simple
fractions like 80:400 = 1:5 are generally unstable)
One thing needs clearing up though -- is Regina's 80-day orbit
measured with respect to Lusor, or is it an absolute (sidereal)
period? I'm assuming sidereal in my calculations, which would make
the solar period 100 days.
The equation for circular orbit works out to
rho (r / R)^3 = 3 pi / G T^2,
where r is Assiniboia's radius, R is the orbital radius of Regina
about Assiniboia, and T is Regina's (sidereal) orbital period.
Guessing rho = 1000 kg/m^3 (similar to Jupiter), I get
(r / R) ~= 0.014.
So, the maximum eclipse length would be
0.014 / pi * 100 days ~= 11 hours.
If the orbits are coplanar, then there will be an eclipse every 100
days, lasting 11 hours. If the orbital path of Regina is slightly
tilted, there will be eclispses of varying lengths throughout the
year. If it is highly tilted with respect to Assiniboia's orbit, an
eclipse may only be possible twice per year. It would not even happen
most years.
> Regina's orbit around Assiniboia brings it closer and farther to
> Lusor in an 80 day cycle. How can I figure out how much warmer and
> cooler it gets?
This makes it sound like you meant an 80-day solar period. In that
case, re-work the above calculations for a 67-day sidereal period.
For that, we'd have to know how Assiniboia compares in size with the
primary star. I would expect not much effect. Assiniboia would have
to be barely substellar for the size of Regina's orbit to have an
80-day effect. I would expect Assiniboia's orbital eccentricity to
play a larger role.
> Finally, how much of the sky does Assiniboia cover?
About 1.6 degrees -- three times the size of Earth's moon.
I hope this helps.
- - Tim
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3305
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3306
Date: | 11/20/00 7:27:16 PM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Monday, November 20 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3306
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Lasers
Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
Re: cybernetics
Re: Meson Communications
Re: Meson Communications
Re: Meson Communications
Re: Meson Communications
Re: Meson Communications
Re: Laser hazards
Re: Troop Transports & Sydkai Detached Cruiser
Re: Info on tethers and other "alternative tech"
Re: Info on tethers and other "alternative tech"
New PICTURE - Med Scanner -
To satisfy my curiousity,
Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
Re: Government Code
Re: Meson Communications
Re: Otrai
Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:33:51 -0800
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: Re: Lasers
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> > Homework problem to clarify how lasers behave in Traveller:
> >
> > 1. Assume that the damage of a laser weapon in TNE is propoprtional to
the
> > beam energy. Use the TNE laser weapon damage tables to estimate the
complex
> > index of refraction of air at the laser's frequency. What is the likely
> > source of this interaction with the atmosphere? What atmospheric window
is
> > probably being used for the low-TL lasers? Are the TL 13+ weapons
probably
> > visible or invisible wavelengths?
>
> The transparency of air varies *greatly* with wavelength. The index of
> refraction isn't all that important once adaptive optics are developed.
Minimal partial credit. The imaginary part of the complex index of
refraction models absorption. If the index of refraction is complex, so is
the wave number, so as a wave propagates, say like exp(i(w*t-k*z)) you get a
decaying exponential which models the absorption. You can estimate this from
the TNE damages values.
> > 5. What pulse duration is needed to avoid photoionization of the
atmosphere
> > by a laser rifle pulse?
>
> I don't think you can. Not and still deliver a useful amount of energy
> to the target. As I recall, ionization depends on power per cm^2 of the
> beam cross-section. And since for a given energy at target, you need to
> raise the energy in direct proportion to the reduction of the pulse
> duration, it's a no win situation.
From TNE we know the beam diameter and beam energy. We need at least 10^10
W/cm^2 for photoionization. To keep those electrons in place, we can still
pump through a good amount of energy in a short time.
> > 6. How will a ship's laser behave if fired in a planet's atmosphere?
>
> Well, it ought to be *really* spectacular!
Extra credit is clearly deserved for such enthusiasm.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 12:47:39 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
On Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 04:39:55PM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> > Perhaps a 767 world isn't going to be a "habitable" world very often?
>
> Probably not. *Most* stars are class M dwarfs. And as noted, getting a
> planet at the "right" distance to be habitable is very difficult.
I would expect smaller stars to have smaller planetary systems to
begin with. Theories about planetary formation are still in flux, but
angular momentum certainly plays a big role and if a star condenses
from a smaller clump of gas it is likely to have smaller orbital radii
for its planets. This may be self-correcting for life zones. Or not.
> Since spectral class and size are *linked* for "main sequence" stars,
> the bigger (and hotter) the star, the wider the "life zone" (area where
> planetary temps are what we'd find usable, roughly between the freezing
> and boiling points of water).
However, we don't know about the links between size of star and
orbital radii for its planets. A life zone from 100-200 Gm is wider
in absolute terms than one from 10-20 Gm, but it really depends upon
where the planets are, and how far apart they are.
> Heck, it'll take a long time for the original ammonia/methane/water
> atmosphere to turn into a nitrogen/CO2/water atmosphere. (Anybody have
> an idea *how* long?)
I had thought that in the life zone, this reaction occurred during
planetary formation. Maybe my knowledge is slipping. :-(
I would have expected it to happen soon after the star ignited,
driving excess volatiles (e.g. hydrogen) outward until they either
escape or get captured by a protoplanet big enough to hold them. But
then, I am not a professional in the field, merely an interested
observer.
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 16:56:41 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: cybernetics
In mail you write:
> In-Reply-To: <000b01c04f99$82cae720$3200a8c0@jeff>
> Greetings dear hearts, especially Jeffrey.
>
> TRAVELLER medicine has advanced to such a point that cybernetics as
> replacement/repair is not often necessary. There are various ways in which
> you may interpret this: -
>
> 1. Culturing or cloning of body parts... so you have a diseased heart, we
> keep you alive while we take some cells from your body and force-grow one
> totally compatible with you (because it IS you) in vitro over a couple of
> months, and then implant it surgically. This would be perfectly legal
> within the normal bounds of medical practice (i.e. the doctors need to be
> qualified M.D., etc.)
We are actually doing this to a limited extent *now*! I saw a piece on
it and right now they are doing "simple" tissues/organs such as the
bladder. But they expect to work up to hearts and other important
organs.
> 2. Whole-body cloning... available only to the very rich, a complete body
> is maintained on life-support (the brain being the one bit not grown, in
> effect it's in a permanent vegetative state) and parts may be taken as and
> when required. Again no compatibility problems. This may or may not be
> legal, and even when legal may be frowned upon, raise ethical questions,
> etc.
If it's got a brain *capable* of functioning, any *law student* could
likely make the case for it being a violation of the "chattel slavery"
law.
If it doesn't have a brain, then you get into the ugly questions
related to things like abortion. What is "human" and when does a
fertilized egg *become* "human".
Also, keep in mind that there are "ancephalic" children born. And
decision that says a clone with no brain isn't human says *they* aren't
human either.
> 3. An enhanced version of contemporary organ-donation practices, with
> improved treatment protocols to minimise rejection problems. This is
> probably legal (assuming you go to a reputable clinic, there are doubtless
> 'organ-leggers' to be found of far lesser legality!).
And on some planets, they may gene-type any transplanted organs that
you have (the drugs you'll probably *always* have to take make this
rather obvious). And if they match the gene type of an organlegger
victim on file you are in *big* trouble.
They may only do this if they "take an interest" in you. Say if you are
arrested or need major medical treatment.
> 5. For limb-replacements, it is likely that bio-mechanics have advanced to
> such a state that a functional and 'natural-looking' false leg or whatever
> can be manufactured. Using cloned skin and flesh overlays it will be
> almost unnoticeable short of a full-body scan or close medical
> examination. Enter the Bionic Man... these could be manufactured with
> enhanced capabilities, if you want to pay the price!
"Bionic man" type *strength* enhancements are flat out impossible. For
two reasons. First, living bone is a *lot* stronger than steel. Or any
"bio-inert" alloy yet found. Thats's because bone is a *composite*
material, just like fiberglass or graphite/epoxy. And since the range
of motion and limb size place rather severe limits on the size/shape of
bones, you can't just make things thicker.
Second, the bionic limb has to attach to your *non*-bionic skeleton.
And *it* can't handle the load. So even if your bionic arm could lift
10 tons your shoulder, spine and legs couldn't take it.
Legs are just as bad, because the pelvis has limits. And things like
running/walking have speeds partially set by mass & length of the legs,
as they act somewhat like a pendulum. So they have a "natural" rate and
it takes more effort than you might expect (and thus higher forces
applied to the pelvis) to make them swing faster.
BTW, this means that it's *posible* that you might be able to run
faster under moderately *higher* gravity!
> 6. Alternatively, you may wish to allow the development of sophisticated
> treatments that re-enable growth and regeneration in higher animals such
> as the sentient races of the TU. So when you are severely damaged, you get
> a course of injections and sit around itching furiously and eating a lot
> while you actually REGROW the hand that was sliced off.
If thisd is sufficiently controlled, free of "side effects" and cheap,
it could lead to some rather startling (to *us*!) "treatments" and
first aid.
For example, most serious limb injuries might be treated by amputation!
And the tourniquet might be a *common* first aid treatment. Why risk
the blood loss when you can simply apply a tourniquet and regrow the
limb later?
Surgical repair and reconstruction might wind up as *very* rare and
"arcane" specialities only used on people who have *genetic* damage
that causes deformities. And the occasional bit of "cosmetic" surgery.
> While it's likely that it is possible to make 'cyberware', its use is
> frowned upon. Uses may include military/mercenary units, where the
> enhanced functionality and durability outweighs the detrimental
> appearance... but it ain't much fun once you've retired, that metal arm
> becomes an embarassment...
As I noted above, you just can't *get* useful improvements without
things like complete skeletal replacement, which tends to interfere
with things like blood production. And even then, you need a material
that has better tensile, compressive *and* shear strength than bone
*and* is both stable in the body as well not triggering any sort of
allergic or other "bad" tissue reactions.
Some sensory enhancements are possible. But learning to use them could
take a long time.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:27:26 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Meson Communications
In mail you write:
> Once these mesons break down and release their energy, is it possible to
> read the information content in the released radiation?
The energy release *is* the information. At the most basic level
"energy release" = 1, no "release" = 0. Though you might be able to
encode data in the *strength* of the release (a form of amplitude
modulation (AM)). I don't think "frequency modulation" is possible.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:31:23 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Meson Communications
In mail you write:
> Are mesons a handwave or are they fairly hard science?
There are real particles (actually a large *class* of particles) called
"mesons".
Alas, the properties of the particles used in Traveller's "meson guns"
bear no resemblance to *any* real particle, mesons or otherwise. In
fact they aren't easily reconcilable with the way particles decay.
So mesons are hard science. "Meson guns" are a major handwave, and use
a particle that is *definitely* unreal.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:37:35 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Meson Communications
In mail you write:
> Hi James,
>
> Very hard science. The properties of mesons that GDW used to make meson
> guns and communicators is very well known and used in several particle
> physics experiments. The technology, of course, isn't.
Mesons exist. They *cannot* produce the effects of Traveller "meson
guns". Nor can *any* particle that obeys the decay rules that *all*
known decaying particles do.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:57:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Meson Communications
Leonard Erickson writes:
> Alas, the properties of the particles used in Traveller's "meson guns"
> bear no resemblance to *any* real particle, mesons or otherwise. In
> fact they aren't easily reconcilable with the way particles decay.
Though you can come tolerably close, within certain energy levels, with a
black hole explosion. Unfortunately, those energy levels start somewhere in the millions of megatons.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:01:45 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Meson Communications
On Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 05:27:26PM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> > Once these mesons break down and release their energy, is it possible to
> > read the information content in the released radiation?
> The energy release *is* the information. At the most basic level
> "energy release" = 1, no "release" = 0. Though you might be able to
> encode data in the *strength* of the release (a form of amplitude
> modulation (AM)). I don't think "frequency modulation" is possible.
It all depends on whatever weird science is behind the meson decay.
Mesons of varying energies may well serve as an FM signal. Then you
might be able to do things with spin states, resonances, etc.
Of course, this is based on QM. QM almost certainly does not hold in
any universe in which mesons decay predictably. (If it did, you could
probably get FTL signalling without jumpspace)
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:47:00 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Laser hazards
In mail you write:
> For what it's worth, medical lasers emit an infared wavelength that
> is absorbed by water; this causes the fluids inside the cells of the tissue
> to boil and explode. The beam is very tightly focused so they are able to
> destroy tiny amounts of tissue at a time. Unfortunately, this wavelength is
> also absorbed by plastics and many other materials, which has led to some
> messy accidents. There was at least one case during a vocal-cord surgery
> where the beam nicked the airway tube. The plastic ignited, since it was
> carrying oxygen, and created a blowtorch-like flame later determined to be
> up to 10 inches long....and aiming straight into the patient's lungs. When
> a laboratory later tried to test the temperature of the flame, it melted the
> thermocouple. There have been other cases of fires involving boxes and
> surgical drapes being ignited by stray shots from the laser.
Sounds like they need to work on safety protocols a bit more. :-)
I'd *seriously* consider use of the older *metal* airway tubes, if it's
possible to find a bio-safe non-reflective coating.
BTW, did the patient survive the blowtorch?
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 18:01:08 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Troop Transports & Sydkai Detached Cruiser
In mail you write:
> Subject: Re: Troop Transports & Sydkai Detached Cruiser
>
> Gerry Harris replied in regards to my request for a troop tranport...
>
> ---Thought about a Broadsword?
>
> My only problem with the Broadsword class is it is only a J-3,M-3 ship. I
> am looking for a marine companion for the Fiery class which is J-4, M-4.
> (This is completely ignoring my dislike of perp deck design in an age of
> grav plates. <ack> Kill the Infidel!!!)
Ships that expect to be shot at *frequently* (ie *military* ships) will
want to be able to function even if the grav plates fail...
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 18:16:11 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Info on tethers and other "alternative tech"
After checking out Dr. Forward's web site (from the Internet Cafe at
Orycon), I notice a paper that some folks may want to grab. The title
is something along the lines of "laser weapons and exotic targets. The
abstract mentions laser propulsion.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 18:05:12 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Info on tethers and other "alternative tech"
In mail you write:
> On Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 07:48:30PM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> Getting back to tethers, it looks like even at Traveller tech levels
>> they'd be *cheaper* than using manuever drives to get stuff moved
>> around in many cases.
>
> Only after the ungodly up-front expenses of manufacturing the things.
> How much would 10^10 kg of ultra-tough zero-defect edge-of-possibility
> structural material cost, and how much more would it cost to assemble
> the thing without compromising at all on strength?
Tethers *aren't* beanstalks.
Read the stuff on the website and at Dr. Forward's web site.
The tethers in question use *existing* materials. At the talk, Dr.
Forward passed around some pieces of tehers that'd been in space.
They're made of Spectra polymer (a type of *polyethylene*!). The stuff
is sold (at elevated prices!) as kite string, fishing line, and a
number of other things.
A 20 km tether weighs something like 10 pounds. And is usable for
launching recovering satellites.
A typical tether setup (including the "hub" as well as the cable) only
needs to mass about 15 times what the payloads it will handle do.
Ones for things like Earth/Mars transfers need to be heavier to gain
the extra stability/accuracy required.
Costs are under a billion dollars. *Well* under for orbit to ground setups.
Given Traveller type ships to deploy them, they'd cost thousands of
times less.
So they'd be *cheaper* than ships, and last at least as long.
> From the cost of ship designs, it seems that contragravity and/or
> thruster plate technology makes large-scale tether construction
> redundant and pointless.
Nope. Because you are thinking of beanstalks, which are *very*
different technology.
Tethers use angular momentum to transfer payloads and electrodynamic
forces to position themselves and control their rotation.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 18:20:21 -0800
From: "Mike Linsenmayer" <mlinsenmayer@symantec.com>
Subject: New PICTURE - Med Scanner -
When I was up in the Ling Standards regional director's office on Regina, I
saw one of their older Tech 12 Medscanner sitting on the table. So I
snapped a Pic of that to.
- ----------- This is the Med Scanner from Grand Survey
http://www.bigbailey.com/vspace/art/picture-l.htm
- -Mike
- ----------------------------------------------
Mike Linsenmayer
Enterprise Technologies Lab Manager
mlinsenmayer@symantec.com
- ----------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 21:41:52 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: To satisfy my curiousity,
> I'll confess that I gave T2K a miss on grounds of bad taste.
what about the game did you find in bad taste?
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 22:02:05 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
>>Probably not. *Most* stars are class M dwarfs. And as noted, getting a
>>planet at the "right" distance to be habitable is very difficult.
>
>I would expect smaller stars to have smaller planetary systems to
>begin with. Theories about planetary formation are still in flux, but
>angular momentum certainly plays a big role and if a star condenses
>from a smaller clump of gas it is likely to have smaller orbital radii
>for its planets. This may be self-correcting for life zones. Or not.
On the other hand, most M-class dwarfs are also flare stars. Anything close
enough to be in the life zone isn't likely to support life for that reason.
The "real science" I've seen on the subject usually places the lower
boundary on the main sequence for truly habitable planets around K5-K7
dwarfs. The upper limit is somewhere in the vicinity of F5, depending on how
long you think life takes to come into existence and how resistant you think
it could be to ultraviolet life.
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 21:05:52 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Government Code
> > Does it seem odd to anyone that a religious dictator ship is government
>D
> > when historically its been the small, primitive tribes that are like
>this?
>
>I take it you've never hear of Iran? And the Ayotollah Khomeni?
>
>It's perfectly possible to have a religious dictatorship in an
>"advanced" country.
>
Yes, but it's ALSO possible to have a religious dictatorship in a "small"
country, which the current rules don't allow for, other than with
balkanization, which involves GM fiat, which is what I'm trying to avoid.
- -J. Jensen
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 22:05:55 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Meson Communications
>I don't think "frequency modulation" is possible.
Alternating back and forth between two types of mesons millions of times per
second? The flip point from type A to B is your "wave peak", flipping back
is your trough? It'd be a bear to pull off, but we're already into the
Wonderful World of Wacko Science as it is....
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 21:06:44 -0600
From: D Smart <dsmart@imagin.net>
Subject: Re: Otrai
Andrew Moffatt-Vallance posted:
>
> On 20 Nov 00, at 19:00, Jones, Dean wrote:
>
> > Hi peeps,
>
> > Anyone know where the Otrai are emntioned? Loren's GT: Humaniti post had
> > them in JTAS 13, but I can't find 'em.
>
> They are (very briefly) mentioned in the amber zone "lockbox". Basically a
> blank canvas to develop with a few little hints.
Specifically, JTAS13 p.10 according to one of the (if not
*the*) most
comprehensive list of Traveller aliens on the Web located
at:
http://members.aol.com/kagekiha/traveller/racelist.htm
David
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 22:09:23 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
>ultraviolet life.
Sigh. Take two: "ultraviolet LIGHT". Thank you and good night.
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 18:21:10 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
In mail you write:
> Recently I've been reading "Alas, Babylon", by Pat Frank. Then, I went on
> Amazon.com to see what other people think about the book. Out of 128
> reviews, almost every one was five out of five stars. However, there were
> those who gave it four, three, two, and one star(s). (One guy had the nerve
> to give away the ending.) One of the prevailing comments was that the idea
> of surviving nuclear war was ridiculous and out-dated. One person gave it a
> less-than-perfect score simply because it featured Fort Repose surviving a
> nuclear blast that occured 50 miles away, citing the Chernobyl incident
> which irradiated a radius of hundreds of miles. But then again, Chernobyl
> was a nuclear _plant_ and much larger than the average nuclear missile.
Also, right now you can enter the nearby areas and wander around for a
few hours. You just need to have "bunny suit" type gear to avoid
getting contaminated material on you or inhaling it.
Radiation drops off *fast*. That's because the "highly radioactive"
materials decay *fast* (that's *why* they are "highly radioactive"!).
It takes *days* to a week or so before the levels drop enough to safely
leve your shelter and get travel outside of the fallout "shadow" of the
blast.
> So, I was wondering: how large an area does an average thermonuclear warhead
> irradiate, and what would it be like to live in an area just outside (by
> five-ten miles) of a blast.
Check out an old Dean Ing book (if you can find it) "Pulling Through".
It has a story about some folks *improvising* a fallout shelter near
San Fancisco after an attack that puts them in the fallout pattern of
*three* DIRTY blast (dirty because they were *surface* blasts, rather
than airbursts).
Besides the story, the last half of the book is a collection of
articles on *how* to do exactly what those folks did.
The articles, plus some more similar articles were reprinted in "The
Chernobyl Syndrome".
Also check and see if your city (or one nearby) has a "US Goverment
Printing Office" store. If so, have them order you a copie of "Efects
of Nuclear Weapons" as well as the two unclassified manuals from the 3
manual set of Army Field Manuals on using nuclear weapons.
The third manual is classified as it has performance data on real
*specific* weapons, as opposed to the "fake" weapons from the
unclassified versiuon (the data there is for weapons that don't exist
but have performance "similar" enough that they can be used to give
officers who aren't cleared for the real data a good "feel" for the
effects of nukes)
Most targets will get airbursts. They cause damage over a wider area,
but don't cause as much fallout. Surface bursts kick up enormous amounts
of dust, and contaminate most of it with radioactive material.
Surface bursts get used against things like missile silos, and places
expected to be protected against blast effects.
Also, most warheads aren't all *that* much bigger than the Hiroshima
bomb. Bigger blasts are *less* efficient (the damage radius goes up
with the *cube root* of the blast energy). So it's actually a better
idea to use several small warheads, targeted properly than to use one
big one.
At 5 miles, I think the main worry will be the thermal flash, and maybe
some blast overpressure effects.
Me? I'm in trouble. I live ~ 2 miles from a likely target
(International Airport with an Air Guard base) And my windows face that
way...
But if you are far enough away to survive the thermal flash and blast
wave, then you've got minutes to *hours* before the fallout starts
coming down. And if you are *upwind* of the blast, you won't *get* any
fallout (at least no from *that* blast). Downwind, the fallout will
reach dangerous levels for miles. It all depends on the blast type and
the wind.
> And _is it_ possible to survive nuclear war?
As long as it's not big enough to trigger "nuclear winter". And maybe
even then.
As an example, with either of the Dean Ing books I mention above, you
can build an air pump out of carboard and duct tape. And an air
*filter* out of more carboard and some rolls of toilet paper.
And a radiation monitor from foil, a coffee can and some wallboard (you
use the gypsum in the wallboard to keep the air in the can dry.
And so on.
It'd be better to prepare in advance, but you could improvise a shelter
from an average basement without too much trouble.
Heck, all those HEPA air filters they are selling to "reduce allergens"
will work just fine to filter out fallout! Swipe the filter from the
furnace instead of messing with the toilet paper.
> Also, what would be the social impacts if it is? (I need to know for a short
> story I'm writing.)
Depends on how big, and what type of society.
But any sort of even "limited" exchange is going to smash most high
tech industry as well as transport hubs and heavy industry.
And since those tend to have a lot of people around them, there'd be a
disproportionate number of "city folk" killed.
> ObTraveller: Well, the 3I still _has_ nuclear weapons, ya know. And while
> post-apocalyptic adventures don't readily mix with the normal image of
> Traveller, it might be plausible in M:0. ("Oh my gosh! We've just activated
> the native thermonuclear defense system and devastated the world! The IISS
> isn't gonna like this...")
Actually, a lot of the info above applies in case of anything from a
repeat of Chernobyl to a terrorist nuke.
You don't *care* that there's only one bomb if it goes off upwind of you...
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3306
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3307
Date: | 11/20/00 9:50:11 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Tuesday, November 21 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3307
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Info on tethers and other "alternative tech"
Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: to satsify my curiosity
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3306
Re: Meson Communications
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3306
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3306
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Radio Free Mongo Report!
Re: Radio Free Mongo Report!
Re: Government Code
Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
Re: Planetary mechanics questions
Re: Meson Communications
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 18:55:15 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
In mail you write:
> On Sun, 19 Nov 2000, James Jensen wrote:
>
>> Recently I've been reading "Alas, Babylon", by Pat Frank.
>>
>> So, I was wondering: how large an area does an average thermonuclear
> warhead
>> irradiate, and what would it be like to live in an area just outside (by
>> five-ten miles) of a blast. And _is it_ possible to survive nuclear war?
>> Also, what would be the social impacts if it is? (I need to know for a
> short
>> story I'm writing.)
>
> Ahhhh..."Alas Babylon", our required 10th grade counterpoint read to
> "On the Beach" so we wouldn't think a general thermonuclear war was a
> "...and everyone dies, the end." downer.
>
> This was important because we weren't supposed to be all anti-american and
> anti-nuke, even though we were living in a city ringed by Titan missle
> silos, about 15 minutes from a Soviet sub-launched first strike from the
> Gulf of California.
The Soviets *never* had the ability to launch a first strike from
*subs*. And we only barely had it in the late 80s or so.
A "first strike" has to target the *silos*, as well as the sub bases
and SAC bases. And not only are most silos too far inland, sub launched
missiles didn't have the *accuracy* to target silos.
Sub launched missiles are for a *retailatory* strike. To take out
*cities*.
> Look at Somalia. Extend that to the entire US (or the world if it was a
> generalized enough war) without whatever ameliorating influences foreign
> relief organizations (and UN troops) have had.
>
> My overall impression of Alas Babylon was that thermonuclear war would
> have been incovenient, but nothing we couldn't just shrug off. :-/
It all depends on how many weapons get targeted where.
> Is it possible to survive thermonuclear war? Yes, humans have survived
> some amazingly nasty stuff. Would it be fun? Not on your life. Would it be
> like 'Alas Babylon'? Not even.
Well, we know more now. Still, a "limited exchange" would be a lot more
survivable than someone with the wrong disease passing through a major
international airport at the wrong time.
> _Limited_ exchanges are another thing entirely, but a generalized war is
> going to be nasty.
Yep. Even if we don't hit the threshold for nuclear winter (where ever
that might be).
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 14:29:29 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Info on tethers and other "alternative tech"
On Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 06:05:12PM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> Tethers *aren't* beanstalks.
Ah yes. Oops. I agree, tethers are a lot more plausible than
beanstalks. Hmm ... now I'll have to do a comparison between
contragrav and tether costs, benefits, and disadvantages.
> Given Traveller type ships to deploy them, they'd cost thousands of
> times less.
Still, how much would it cost to deploy and maintain a tether system
capable of getting a 100-ton payload to a space station? (I should be
able to work this one out for myself)
> So they'd be *cheaper* than ships, and last at least as long.
I'm still not sure of that. Contragrav and thrusters are very cheap
technology, and can go straight from ground to space without
transferring massive payloads between objects moving at high speeds
and accelerations in tight time windows.
I'll do some numbers.
> Nope. Because you are thinking of beanstalks, which are *very*
> different technology.
Certainly beanstalks are out of the question given CG/Thr technology.
I agree that tethers would be much cheaper than beanstalks. The
question still remains whether tethers are cheap compared with CG/T.
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 14:40:19 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
On Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 10:02:05PM -0500, Paul Drye wrote:
> On the other hand, most M-class dwarfs are also flare stars. Anything close
> enough to be in the life zone isn't likely to support life for that reason.
I hadn't seen that. Learn something new all the time. :^)
How energetic are these flares? Enough to bake a planet clean? I
suspect anything less would just be another source of energy for
developing life to use.
> The "real science" I've seen on the subject usually places the lower
> boundary on the main sequence for truly habitable planets around K5-K7
> dwarfs. The upper limit is somewhere in the vicinity of F5, depending on how
> long you think life takes to come into existence and how resistant you think
> it could be to ultraviolet life.
I think it could be arbitrarily resistant to UV. If the surface is
bathed in pure high-energy UV sufficient to break chemical bonds, then
life could just start and evolve deeper down. If it can get started
at all, then I think chances are pretty good that some lifeform will
eventually evolve a skin that completely blocks UV (or makes good use
of it).
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 19:04:57 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
In mail you write:
>> >
>> > 1. How many nukes would it take to completely devastate the continental
>> > United States?
>>
>> A lot. It really depends on the size of the weapon and it's deployment. I
>> remember reading one estimate some time ago that a 100 megaton weapon
>> fired at the right height could start fires across several _states_
>
> How many would it take to collapse the federal government and cut off all
> lines of communications and trade? Would it be more or less than in AB?
Think "CB" and "ham radio". Also, *now* with all the buried fiber optic
lines belonging to a *dozen* or more long distance companies, it'd be
*real* hard to take out the long distance phone system.
For example, one of the phone networks used to be part of a company
that operated a major gas and oil pipeline network. When they shut down
a bunch of pipelines they decided to run fiber optic cables thru them.
They are noted for being exceptionally immune to "backhoe fade" (ie
some idiot digs without checking and cuts a cable). That's because the
pipes aren't exactly easy to cut (1/4" steel?)
Knocking out communications isn't that easy anymore.
>> > 2. How many nukes would it take to make Russia and China uncapable of
>> > continuing a nuclear war (this is more of a handwave so that I can
>> > concentrate on dosmestic matters)?
>>
>> A damn good question. Both have highly centralized command structures...a
>> decapitation strike might well do it. Or it might take more than we've got
>> due to their size.
>
> Maybe I'll just have them involved in war with other countries, then.
Or maybe we (or one of the other nuke capable nations) had
exceptionally good intel regarding the location of the Russian (and/or
Chinese) "command bunkers". In which case destroying them becomes not
merely practical, but *necessary*.
>> > 3. How serious would the effects of nuclear winter be in question no. 1
>> > (assuming that a couple of missile were shot down before impact and thus
>> > allowing for life to continue in a fairly small region (some sparsely
>> > inhabited part of Texas, in fact))?
>>
>> Bad. Real bad. You'd need at lot of stockpiled food to survive it.
>> Besides, sparsely inhabited sections of Texas are sparsely inhabited for a
>> REASON. Lack of water for farming is the usual one.
>
> In that case, what would be the most likely candidate for survival?
> Mississippi? Georgia? Oregon? (Hey... that wouldn't be too bad... as a
> sequel, I could follow suit with most post-apocalyptic movies and have them
> fight over who the people REALLY elected as president there. ;-) [Florida
> would be better for this, but that'd just be copying.]
Well, the Oregon L-5 chapter has been working in some lava tubes in
southern Oregon, to compile data on what would be involved in building
a moonbase in lava tubes on the moon (assuming there are any).
Asuume they had better funding (and maybe a parntership with a group
like the BioSphere II people). So they could have a working "mockup".
Which would require things like being sealed airtight and long term
life support systems.
So, if they were running a test at the time of the war, they'd be
protected by the rock, and by having no targets nearby. And the
"spacesuits" would double as protective garments for trips outside.
The big problem would be power. Unless they had *powerful* friends, I
don't think they could get an RTG much less a reactor. If they were
using solar power or tied into the power grid, they'd lose power too
soon.
Then again, that area already has a power plant using geothermal
energy. Maybe they'd tap that. In which case they'd be ok as long as
the food held out (which is why I mentioned the Biosphere project).
That and some of NASA's projects could give them the ability to produce
edible (if not exciting) food for a *long* time.
Alas, something like Biosphere II wouldn't survive due to lack of
sunlight.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 19:29:55 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
In mail you write:
> Thanks. A couple more questions, though:
>
> 1. How many nukes would it take to completely devastate the continental
> United States?
Define "completely devastate".
As a practical matter, You'd problably trigger a long term nuclear
winter or run out of nukes *long* before you hit what *I* would
consider "completely devastated".
One the other hand, it'd take a lot less than "complete devastation" to
eliminate "The United States". And all of its population.
> 2. How many nukes would it take to make Russia and China uncapable of
> continuing a nuclear war (this is more of a handwave so that I can
> concentrate on dosmestic matters)?
> 3. How serious would the effects of nuclear winter be in question no. 1
> (assuming that a couple of missile were shot down before impact and thus
> allowing for life to continue in a fairly small region (some sparsely
> inhabited part of Texas, in fact))?
The problem is that it'd take more than just a few missiles being
intercepted.
If the attack is intended to *destroy* the US, rather than merely
eliminate its ability to interfere with other countries, then you'd
have overlapping fallout plumes covering most of the inhabitated parts
of the country.
Also, you seem to have overlooked a few things. For one, the US sub
fleet is going to make whatever country launched the attack into a
desert unless *ordered* not to.
For another, all the other members of the "nuclear club" are going to
see anybody that does that as a major threat to *them*. And so they'll
likely launch massive attacks to try to eliminate that threat.
Which is one of the reasons nobody has started a nuclear war. Because
they figure that they'd not survive.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 08:13:55 +0400
From: Andrew Long <andylong@emirates.net.ae>
Subject: Re: to satsify my curiosity
Loren
>>>>
> I'll confess that I gave T2K a miss on grounds of bad taste.
what about the game did you find in bad taste?
LKW
<<<<
It wasn't me posted that, but I had a similar reaction (at first.) These
were the (if you'll pardon the expression) 'Ronnie Raygun' years, and many
Europeans were somewhat, how shall I put it, disturbed at the thought of
fighting another major war on our territory. It wasn't helped by the
presence of people wearing T-Shirts bearing a map of Europe and the phrase
'America's First line of defence.'
As I got to see more of the product, I managed to 'dissociate' it from
reality - I managed to treat it AS a game, rather than a possible future.
And as that possible future became less likely, it became easier to do that.
The change in emphasis of the scenarios and sourcebooks, away from the
purely military and towards the reconstructive gave me a 'feel good'
attitude, reinforced the positive.
Until I read 'Howling Wilderness'...
Regards, Andy
========================================================
Andrew Long eMail: Andylong@emirates.net.ae
c/o EPMTS Phone: +971 2 681 3100
P.O. Box 46426 Fax: +971 2 681 3802
Abu Dhabi GSM: +971 50 661 0254
United Arab Emirates
========================================================
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 21:14:38 -0700
From: "Joseph Kimball" <jekimball@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3306
You are forgetting the obvious answer, which is explicit in the name:
frequency modulation. All you have to do is vary how often you send the
mesons, and you have an FM signal.
So we have AM (amplitude modulation) created by varying the strength of the
meson decay at the receiver, and FM (frequency modulation) created by
varying the frequency with which you send the mesons, and polar (circular?)
modulation, which I am not sure how to do with mesons. This third option
(polar) is not much used in commercial broadcasting in our TTL7-8 technology
(though it can be done fairly easily with radio).
Carl Sagan's book _Contact_ has several good paragraphs about the various
kinds of modulation.
- - Joseph
- ----- Original Message ----- > Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 22:05:55 -0500
> From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Meson Communications
>
> >I don't think "frequency modulation" is possible.
>
> Alternating back and forth between two types of mesons millions of times
per
> second? The flip point from type A to B is your "wave peak", flipping back
> is your trough? It'd be a bear to pull off, but we're already into the
> Wonderful World of Wacko Science as it is....
>
> Cheers,
> Paul Drye
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 15:33:34 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Meson Communications
On Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 05:57:19PM -0800, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Leonard Erickson writes:
>
> > Alas, the properties of the particles used in Traveller's "meson guns"
> > bear no resemblance to *any* real particle, mesons or otherwise. In
> > fact they aren't easily reconcilable with the way particles decay.
> Though you can come tolerably close, within certain energy levels,
> with a black hole explosion. Unfortunately, those energy levels
> start somewhere in the millions of megatons.
What's worse, they wouldn't be stopped by anything. No meson screens.
And they would leave a blazing trail of destruction along the path
from launcher to target.
Larger versions of such black holes would also be a better energy
source than antimatter, although containment on a moving ship might be
tricky. Leave it to well-isolated space platforms. Better yet, just
use fusion.
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 15:47:15 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3306
On Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 09:14:38PM -0700, Joseph Kimball wrote:
> So we have AM (amplitude modulation) created by varying the strength of the
> meson decay at the receiver, and FM (frequency modulation) created by
> varying the frequency with which you send the mesons,
Actually, by analogy with photons these would be eaxctly the opposite
way around. Frequency modulation uses relatively fixed numbers of
photons of varying energy, while amplitude modulation varies how many
are sent (and hopefully received).
> and polar (circular?) modulation, which I am not sure how to do
> with mesons.
Depends upon what mesons in the Traveller universe are. I doubt
they're charged, or they would interact a lot more strongly with
normal matter. Are they fermions, bosons, or are these labels
inappropriate in Traveller science?
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 23:42:41 -0600
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3306
Timothy Little wrote:
>
<<snip>>
>
> Depends upon what mesons in the Traveller universe are. I doubt
> they're charged, or they would interact a lot more strongly with
> normal matter. Are they fermions, bosons, or are these labels
> inappropriate in Traveller science?
From everything I've seen on the TML from folks with a far more detailed
knowledge of particle physics than I ever expect to approach, mesons as
described in Traveller could probably be best labeled as "bogusons."
- --
"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you
least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of
your unit."
-- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's
magazine of preventive maintenance
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 19:55:17 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
In mail you write:
> On Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 02:29:50PM -0600, James Jensen wrote:
>> ObTraveller: Well, the 3I still _has_ nuclear weapons, ya know. And while
>> post-apocalyptic adventures don't readily mix with the normal image of
>> Traveller, it might be plausible in M:0. ("Oh my gosh! We've just activated
>> the native thermonuclear defense system and devastated the world! The IISS
>> isn't gonna like this...")
>
> Global thermonuclear war just doesn't have the same impact when it's
> just one world of thousands. If it happened, imagine how many
> starships would be involved in the rebuilding effort, shipping in
> components of automated factories, emergency food supplies,
> agricultural produce, etc.
Nuclear dampers make a big difference as well. You can decontaminate
things "fast". There's still a limit in that you don't want to generate
enough heat that the radioactive material gets scattered more.
> One thing that has bothered me for a while -- why does the Imperium
> have so little interstellar trade? It's so cheap!
>
> Sure, potatoes will be a lot more expensive if you're shipping them 10
> parsecs, but why isn't there 100 times more trade between planets in
> neighbouring systems than depicted?
Well for one thing, systems are going to be more self-sufficient. And
the Imperium is arguably less into "progress for progress's sake". So
if a planet has locally produced stuff that works ok, any import will
have to be a *lot* better as well as cheaper. And they will likewly
consider things like the cost of parets (and techs!) for repairs.
Interworld trade is apt to be restricted to raw materials, luxury
goods, and things that are "needed" but can't be produced cheaply
locally.
Remember, the fact that it'll take *weeks* to get an offworld part
that isn't on hand (up to a week waiting for a ship to arrive, a week
for the ship to jump, up to a week for a ship to be ready to leave
after the part is ready, and a week for the ship to jump back) tends to
make off world supplies less attractive.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:24:16 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Radio Free Mongo Report!
In mail you write:
>>Our northern force of tempestuous tanks swarmed in to the center of the
>>overlord's position and destroyed many of his minions and their equipment at
>>close range. At the same time, two famous fighters flew a fantastic sortie
>>over the enemy's position, destroying the overlord's pathetic pleasure barge
>>and killing several political police.
>>
>>Finally, our tanks punched powerfully with plasma weapons into the odious
>>opening of the oppressor's own underground bunker...
> Are we _sure_ that excessive use of alliteration isn't grounds
> for Marine intervention? Please?
Nah. Have you ever read one of *Ming's* speeches?
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:25:59 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Radio Free Mongo Report!
In mail you write:
> The rebels overheard police radio chatter that indicated that some officers
> wanted the use the nuke as soon as the rebel tanks appeared. The only way
> to get the missile off without it being destroyed by rebel point defense
> fire, however, would have involved detonating it while the police car was
> still in the primary blast radius -- a suicide move.
>
> The closest rebel tank destroyed the police car with its plasma main gun.
Also a suicide move as it would scatter *highly* radioactive plasma and
dust over a wide area.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:51:58 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Government Code
In mail you write:
>> > Does it seem odd to anyone that a religious dictator ship is government
>>D
>> > when historically its been the small, primitive tribes that are like
>>this?
>>
>>I take it you've never hear of Iran? And the Ayotollah Khomeni?
>>
>>It's perfectly possible to have a religious dictatorship in an
>>"advanced" country.
>>
>
> Yes, but it's ALSO possible to have a religious dictatorship in a "small"
> country, which the current rules don't allow for, other than with
> balkanization, which involves GM fiat, which is what I'm trying to avoid.
Well, in the lower population situations, it could be argued that it's
not a "dictatorship".
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:53:17 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
In mail you write:
>>>Probably not. *Most* stars are class M dwarfs. And as noted, getting a
>>>planet at the "right" distance to be habitable is very difficult.
>>
>>I would expect smaller stars to have smaller planetary systems to
>>begin with. Theories about planetary formation are still in flux, but
>>angular momentum certainly plays a big role and if a star condenses
>>from a smaller clump of gas it is likely to have smaller orbital radii
>>for its planets. This may be self-correcting for life zones. Or not.
>
> On the other hand, most M-class dwarfs are also flare stars. Anything close
> enough to be in the life zone isn't likely to support life for that reason.
Well, it's also possible (though not likely) that the lifeforms *use*
the flare energy to make compounds which they live off of between
flares.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:55:11 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
In mail you write:
>> Heck, it'll take a long time for the original ammonia/methane/water
>> atmosphere to turn into a nitrogen/CO2/water atmosphere. (Anybody have
>> an idea *how* long?)
>
> I had thought that in the life zone, this reaction occurred during
> planetary formation. Maybe my knowledge is slipping. :-(
>
> I would have expected it to happen soon after the star ignited,
> driving excess volatiles (e.g. hydrogen) outward until they either
> escape or get captured by a protoplanet big enough to hold them. But
> then, I am not a professional in the field, merely an interested
> observer.
The problem is that *during* formation the planetismals falling into
the protoplanet will have compositions not all that different from
comets.
Which means that there will be a lot of hydrogen (quickly lost) and a
the rest of the "volatiles" will be methane (CH4), ammonia (NH3), and
water (H2O).
Those will form the atmosphere and oceans. In the life zone, the ocean
will be water, salts and disolved ammonia. The air will be water vapor,
methane and ammonia. A "reducing" (as oposed to oxidizing or "neutral"
atmospheres).
At the top of the atmosphere, UV will split these molecules. The
hydrogen escapes, the oxygen, carbon and nitrogen hang around. The
oxygen reacts with some of the hydrogen before it can escape, and with
all of the carbon.
Overall reactions:
2 NH3 -> N2 + 3 H2
2 H2O <-> 2 H2 + O2
CH4 -> C + 2 H2
C + O2 -> CO2
So, we wind up (over millions of years) with an atmosphere of nitrogen,
water vapor and CO2 (a "neutral" atmosphere) and an ocean of saltwater
and whatever organics formed before the methane & ammonia were gone.
Some minerals and sediments might decompose in the absence of the
ammonia, but most of those would be very soluble anyway (sort of like
salt deposits now).
Other minerals dissolved in the (mildly acid) rains, resulting in
massive deposits of carbonates. And lots of disolved carbonates in the
oceans.
Life (on earth anyway) started working on the organics in the water,
and then something stumbled onto photosynthesis and everything changed.
The CO2 got converted to O2 and organic material. The acidity of the
oceans dropped. And a lot of dissolved metal ions precipitated out as
they formed insolube oxides with the oxygen ions in the oceans.
The formations from this period are *very* distinctive as one of the
main metals to precipitate out was iron. The formations look like one
big rust stain!
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 21:23:22 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Planetary mechanics questions
In mail you write:
> For the astronomer and astrophysicists out there, I pose the following
> questions:
>
> Regina is a size 7 world (7,000 miles in diameter). It rotates on its axis
> in 25.5 hours. It orbits the gas giant Assiniboia in 80 standard days.
> Assiniboia orbits the star Lusor in 400 standard days.
>
> For how many days out of each 80 day orbit is Regina in Assiniboia's shadow?
> How would I figure that out?
You need the diameter of Assiniboia and the distance at which Regina
orbits it. And the distance from Assiniboia to Lusor (as well as
Lusor's diamter).
Then a simple scaled drawing can get you the size of the shadow cone.
Which will also give you what percentage of the orbit Regina spends in
the cone.
> Regina's orbit around Assiniboia brings it closer and farther to Lusor in an
> 80 day cycle. How can I figure out how much warmer and cooler it gets?
Not enough to matter is my guess.
> Finally, how much of the sky does Assiniboia cover?
Again, you need to know how far away it is.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 21:37:54 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Meson Communications
In mail you write:
> Leonard Erickson writes:
>
>> Alas, the properties of the particles used in Traveller's "meson guns"
>> bear no resemblance to *any* real particle, mesons or otherwise. In
>> fact they aren't easily reconcilable with the way particles decay.
>
> Though you can come tolerably close, within certain energy levels, with a
> black hole explosion. Unfortunately, those energy levels start somewhere in
> the millions of megatons.
Black holes can ve *really* small. :-)
But giving them the ability to create such has *way* too many side
effects.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3307
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3308
Date: | 11/21/00 3:12:55 AM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, November 21 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3308
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Info on tethers and other "alternative tech"
Re: Radio Free Mongo Report!
RE: One Year Anniversary MiniCon - San Jose Traveller Meet!
RE: Radio Free Mongo Report!
More Meson Communication Stuff (was RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3306)
Re: Planetary mechanics questions
Re: Meson Communications
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Troop Transports & Sydkai Detached Cruiser
Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
Re: Meson Communications
RE: More Traveller Jobs-Law
Re: Info on tethers and other "alternative tech"
RE: Space Opera [was: Re: Radio Free Mongo Report!]
GT: Starships in Playtest!
Re: cybernetics
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 21:39:48 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Info on tethers and other "alternative tech"
In mail you write:
> On Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 06:05:12PM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> Tethers *aren't* beanstalks.
>
> Ah yes. Oops. I agree, tethers are a lot more plausible than
> beanstalks. Hmm ... now I'll have to do a comparison between
> contragrav and tether costs, benefits, and disadvantages.
>
>> Given Traveller type ships to deploy them, they'd cost thousands of
>> times less.
>
> Still, how much would it cost to deploy and maintain a tether system
> capable of getting a 100-ton payload to a space station? (I should be
> able to work this one out for myself)
Maintenance is *very* low. The cable is cheap, even the fancy
multistrand type (Hoytethers?)
>> So they'd be *cheaper* than ships, and last at least as long.
>
> I'm still not sure of that. Contragrav and thrusters are very cheap
> technology, and can go straight from ground to space without
> transferring massive payloads between objects moving at high speeds
> and accelerations in tight time windows.
>
> I'll do some numbers.
The time windows aren't all *that* tight. Also the speeds are next to
*zero* at the transfer points.
>> Nope. Because you are thinking of beanstalks, which are *very*
>> different technology.
>
> Certainly beanstalks are out of the question given CG/Thr technology.
> I agree that tethers would be much cheaper than beanstalks. The
> question still remains whether tethers are cheap compared with CG/T.
It's hard to imagine a tether that costs *more* than a ship of the same
cargo capacity.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 21:48:41 -0800
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
Subject: Re: Radio Free Mongo Report!
I assume that this lively chatter means everyone had a good time!
Luther Martin wrote:
>
> Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>
> > The rebels overheard police radio chatter that indicated that some
> officers
> > wanted the use the nuke as soon as the rebel tanks appeared. The only way
> > to get the missile off without it being destroyed by rebel point defense
> > fire, however, would have involved detonating it while the police car was
> > still in the primary blast radius -- a suicide move.
>
> No more suicidal than facing a platoon of grav tanks armed with plasma guns.
> In any case, any member of the Mongo Secret Police would gladly sacrifice
> his life to protect Ming against the relentless rampaging rabid rebel
> rabble.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 21:55:08 -0800
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: RE: One Year Anniversary MiniCon - San Jose Traveller Meet!
Alan Bradley wrote:
>> From: "Luther Martin"
>> The high TL stuff can get really wierd. Everything is within effective
>> range unless you are playing in a gymnasium (we weren't).
>Hey, what's that sound? It sounds like - munchkins!
>This range thing sounds like perfect munchkin bait: use weapons and other
>gear that can cover the table, and no more.
>The sad thing is that there are gamers out there who would indulge in this
>kind of thing.
Have you actually played Striker, or any Traveller game involving weapons?
This behavior comes with any weapon systems designed at mid to high tech
levels. Technology always seems to make weapon systems perform better
instead of worse. It's funny that way. Come to think of it, the real world
seems to work that way also.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 22:11:03 -0800
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: RE: Radio Free Mongo Report!
Definitely! I was lucky enough to actually have units which got to mix it up
in the action in *both* Striker games. One of the really annoying
side-effects of the Striker rules is that sometimes your units are
ineffective for the whole game due to terrain, orders, or just plain bad
luck. Sure, it's just like real life, but it's not that much fun to play.
The artillery rules are also annoying, but that's another story. I will let
Kristian tell what it's like to keep adjusting fire and seeing your spotting
round randomly zoom from corner to corner of the board.
The only element missing from the gaming experiences of days gone by was
that of staying up all night, which I can do just fine without these days.
When I showed up around 10:30 AM the second day, I found some people still
asleep, so they might not have totally missed out on this experience.
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Kristian Miller
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2000 9:49 PM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: Re: Radio Free Mongo Report!
I assume that this lively chatter means everyone had a good time!
Luther Martin wrote:
>
> Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>
> > The rebels overheard police radio chatter that indicated that some
> officers
> > wanted the use the nuke as soon as the rebel tanks appeared. The only
way
> > to get the missile off without it being destroyed by rebel point defense
> > fire, however, would have involved detonating it while the police car
was
> > still in the primary blast radius -- a suicide move.
>
> No more suicidal than facing a platoon of grav tanks armed with plasma
guns.
> In any case, any member of the Mongo Secret Police would gladly sacrifice
> his life to protect Ming against the relentless rampaging rabid rebel
> rabble.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 22:23:33 -0800
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: More Meson Communication Stuff (was RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3306)
How about this concept? I believe that there are two types of Pi0 mesons,
depending on what types of quarks are inside. You can either have a u/u*
pair or a d/d* pair. You probably get one of each if you whack an electron
into a positron as we hear in High Guard. What if you can somehow filter out
one of these pairs, leaving only the other one to zip to the detector? This
sounds like a potential way to transmit a bit of data. Using the extremely
advanced physics which comes with the higher tech levels, you somehow
distinguish between the decay of the different types. Just don't ask me how
it's done.
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Joseph Kimball
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2000 8:15 PM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3306
You are forgetting the obvious answer, which is explicit in the name:
frequency modulation. All you have to do is vary how often you send the
mesons, and you have an FM signal.
So we have AM (amplitude modulation) created by varying the strength of the
meson decay at the receiver, and FM (frequency modulation) created by
varying the frequency with which you send the mesons, and polar (circular?)
modulation, which I am not sure how to do with mesons. This third option
(polar) is not much used in commercial broadcasting in our TTL7-8 technology
(though it can be done fairly easily with radio).
Carl Sagan's book _Contact_ has several good paragraphs about the various
kinds of modulation.
- - Joseph
- ----- Original Message ----- > Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 22:05:55 -0500
> From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Meson Communications
>
> >I don't think "frequency modulation" is possible.
>
> Alternating back and forth between two types of mesons millions of times
per
> second? The flip point from type A to B is your "wave peak", flipping back
> is your trough? It'd be a bear to pull off, but we're already into the
> Wonderful World of Wacko Science as it is....
>
> Cheers,
> Paul Drye
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 08:28:05 +0200 (EET)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: Re: Planetary mechanics questions
On Mon, 20 Nov 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> In mail you write:
> > For the astronomer and astrophysicists out there, I pose the following
> > questions:
> > Regina is a size 7 world (7,000 miles in diameter). It rotates on its axis
> > in 25.5 hours. It orbits the gas giant Assiniboia in 80 standard days.
> > Assiniboia orbits the star Lusor in 400 standard days.
> >
> > For how many days out of each 80 day orbit is Regina in Assiniboia's shadow?
> > How would I figure that out?
> You need the diameter of Assiniboia and the distance at which Regina
> orbits it. And the distance from Assiniboia to Lusor (as well as
> Lusor's diamter).
You will also need the tilt of Assiniboia. It can be assumed that
satellites of gas giants orbit in the equatorial plane, and this is
tilted.
A quick check through NASA data shows that the tilt of Jupiter's axis
is about 3 degrees. This could matter, depending on how far Regina is
from Assiniboia. Saturn has a tilt of 26.7 degrees, which is more than
Earth (~23). A tilt that big could mean that for most of the time the
moon will not be in the shadow, but two times the gas giant's year there
would be periods with shadowing.
> Then a simple scaled drawing can get you the size of the shadow cone.
> Which will also give you what percentage of the orbit Regina spends in
> the cone.
This depends on the "season" of the gas giant. The situation is really
the same as with our Moon : we do not see lunar eclipses every month.
> > Regina's orbit around Assiniboia brings it closer and farther to Lusor in an
> > 80 day cycle. How can I figure out how much warmer and cooler it gets?
> Not enough to matter is my guess.
We can perhaps rule out large tidal warming, the kind that happens on Io.
B-)
- --
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 08:31:12 +0200 (EET)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: Re: Meson Communications
On Mon, 20 Nov 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> In mail you write:
> > Once these mesons break down and release their energy, is it possible to
> > read the information content in the released radiation?
> The energy release *is* the information. At the most basic level
> "energy release" = 1, no "release" = 0. Though you might be able to
> encode data in the *strength* of the release (a form of amplitude
> modulation (AM)). I don't think "frequency modulation" is possible.
Why not? You just need to send more mesons, so that this rate can be
varied by the signal being sent.
I could envision a system with digital "waves" which uses FM.
- --
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 17:47:17 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
On Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 07:55:17PM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> Nuclear dampers make a big difference as well. You can decontaminate
> things "fast". There's still a limit in that you don't want to generate
> enough heat that the radioactive material gets scattered more.
Yes. I think nuclear war would be nowhere near as big a deal in
Traveller.
>> Sure, potatoes will be a lot more expensive if you're shipping
>> them 10 parsecs, but why isn't there 100 times more trade between
>> planets in neighbouring systems than depicted?
> Well for one thing, systems are going to be more
> self-sufficient. And the Imperium is arguably less into "progress
> for progress's sake".
I'm not so sure that systems will be more self-sufficient. Certainly
there seem to be a lot of systems that are mineral-poor, or have bad
atmospheres, or the wrong temperature. I agree that self-sufficiency
would be desirable from a political point of view, although I think
being part of a large Imperium would reduce the insularity rather than
increasing it.
I was just thinking from the point of view of commerce. Say widgets
get mass-produced on Widgetworld for 500 Cr each, and you can pack 100
of them into a 1-dton shipping container. Even allowing for various
overheads as well as the amount the trader gets paid, that's probably
only 2-5% markup due to shipping. Add 20000 Cr/ton import duty. If
your competitors are making do with local materials and expertise to
build widgets for 1000 Cr each, you'll still have a very big
advantage.
> So if a planet has locally produced stuff that works ok, any import
> will have to be a *lot* better as well as cheaper. And they will
> likewly consider things like the cost of parts (and techs!) for
> repairs.
OK -- is it better to need a small import of spare parts, or to build
a widget factory and import lots of raw materials? To have a few
trained technicians for repairs, or thousands of them to deal with
widget design, development, and production?
> Interworld trade is apt to be restricted to raw materials, luxury
> goods, and things that are "needed" but can't be produced cheaply
> locally.
I'm just wondering what happens to the things that can be produced
locally, but not as cheaply. That accounts for basically all trade on
Earth, and I can't see any overriding reason to expect it to change in
the Traveller universe.
This is not just a theoretical argument -- my character is the
director of a shipping corporation in a game focussed on trading. If
there is something stopping him from exploiting what appears to be a
truly massive undersupply of shipping, I'd better know what it is.
> Remember, the fact that it'll take *weeks* to get an offworld part
> that isn't on hand
So you make sure that it is on hand. That's what warehouses are for,
and why you keep stuff in them. It's not like I'm talking about a
100-person colony here -- I'm talking about the planets with hundreds
of millions to billions of people. There will be a rather steady need
for spare parts.
> (up to a week waiting for a ship to arrive,
This confirms my suspicion that you're thinking of 100-person
outposts. Even with current Traveller trade volumes, there would have
to be hundreds to thousands of ships per day carrying cargo to nearby
systems. If you can't find one with any spare room -- well, you've
just created a demand for more shipping!
If you're distributing widgets to a planet of a billion people, you'll
know at least a month ahead of time when you need to restock your
warehouses. Even if you're slapdash about it, you should have plenty
of time to find some space on a ship.
These are not unique problems to space travel. They occur in the real
world, and they have tried and true solutions.
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 02:07:00 -0500
From: "Anthony Colosetti" <acoloset@kent.edu>
Subject: Re: Troop Transports & Sydkai Detached Cruiser
My comments below...
> In mail you write:
>
> > Subject: Re: Troop Transports & Sydkai Detached Cruiser
> >
> > Gerry Harris replied in regards to my request for a troop tranport...
> >
> > ---Thought about a Broadsword?
> >
> > My only problem with the Broadsword class is it is only a J-3,M-3 ship.
I
> > am looking for a marine companion for the Fiery class which is J-4, M-4.
> > (This is completely ignoring my dislike of perp deck design in an age of
> > grav plates. <ack> Kill the Infidel!!!)
>
> Ships that expect to be shot at *frequently* (ie *military* ships) will
> want to be able to function even if the grav plates fail...
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
What I would like to put forward as an argument is that if the grav
plates have failed then it is likely that the M-drive and the inertial comps
are no longer functioning either. My basis for this is that I figure that
the grav plates are just that, plates of solid state technology used in the
basic structure of the ship, not some mystic grav generator in the middle of
the ship that can somehow be destroyed or sabotaged. As long as electricity
is travelling through the ship then you're fine. When the power is on, the
M-Drive, grav plates and inertial comps work. If the power is off (due to a
P-plant hit or other failure) all you do is float.
I do like the idea of perp decks for sci-fi games like 2300AD and other
"low-tech" space games, but when I have to accept grav plates and M-Drives
as being cheap and commonplace then it seems silly that naval architects
would use such archaic means of simulated gravity as perp decks.
Anthony Colosetti
- ---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.214 / Virus Database: 101 - Release Date: 11/16/00
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 18:11:17 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
On Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 08:55:11PM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> In mail you write:
>
> > I would have expected it to happen soon after the star ignited,
> > driving excess volatiles (e.g. hydrogen) outward until they either
> > escape or get captured by a protoplanet big enough to hold them. But
> > then, I am not a professional in the field, merely an interested
> > observer.
>
> The problem is that *during* formation the planetismals falling into
> the protoplanet will have compositions not all that different from
> comets.
I think I have got something seriously wrong then. I had thought that
the time scales of planetary formation were greater than the timescale
given by the equilibrium reactions between NH3/N2+H2, H2O/H2+O2,
CH4/C+H2 (I didn't even know this one existed. Does it really involve
elemental carbon, or is it a shorthand for a more complex
equilibrium?)
I had also thought that the rate was primarily dictated by the rate of
hydrogen escape, rather than the UV input. Maybe theories have
changed, or I didn't understand them well enough in the first place.
> Life (on earth anyway) started working on the organics in the water,
> and then something stumbled onto photosynthesis and everything changed.
No kidding. Free oxygen all over the place! It must have taken quite
a lot of biological work to get rid of nearly all the carbon dioxide.
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 18:17:47 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Meson Communications
On Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 09:37:54PM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> Black holes can ve *really* small. :-)
But *really* small ones have very short lifetimes. The "millions of
megatons" energy would be a black hole with a lifetime on the order of
a second.
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 07:42:12 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: More Traveller Jobs-Law
>
>
> On Sun, 19 Nov 2000 16:27:00 -0500 (EST), "Terry Carlino"
> <carlino@home.com> wrote:
>
> >All depends on whether or not the Count can call up a couple
> of companies of
> >Imperial Marines. Say doesn't Count Yori have that little
> group of boy
> >scouts, Four Hundred and Eighteenth something or other....
>
> I suspect that you're thinking of _Baron_ Yori, and no, he
> has no authority
> over the 418... Those huscarles belong to the Duke of Regina.
>
> (Norris's various titles are theoretically separable;
> identity of person
> does not mean interchangeability of title in any given situation.)
>
> (Norris is Archduke of Deneb, Duke of Regina, Count Aledon, Marquis of
> Regina, Baron Yori.)
> --
But Baron Yori could call on the Archduke of Deneb for aid...and get it
approved real quick, couldn't he? :)
Seriously, I can imagine positions where it is policially very difficult for
Deneb to aid Yori, even though they're the same guy!
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 18:53:31 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Info on tethers and other "alternative tech"
On Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 09:39:48PM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> > Still, how much would it cost to deploy and maintain a tether system
> > capable of getting a 100-ton payload to a space station? (I should be
> > able to work this one out for myself)
>
> Maintenance is *very* low. The cable is cheap, even the fancy
> multistrand type (Hoytethers?)
It's the support structures that I'm thinking of. Not just in the
engineering sense, but the administration and logistic sense as well.
It seems to be a tradeoff between a cheap and dumb system, and a more
expensive system with much more flexibility.
> > I'm still not sure of that. Contragrav and thrusters are very cheap
> > technology, and can go straight from ground to space without
> > transferring massive payloads between objects moving at high speeds
> > and accelerations in tight time windows.
> >
> > I'll do some numbers.
>
> The time windows aren't all *that* tight. Also the speeds are next to
> *zero* at the transfer points.
I noticed on the web site that the characteristic speeds for the
strongest commercial materials is on the order of 4 km/s. I presume
this would be sorted out by Traveller materials.
The accelerations would be sort of horrible -- a tether spinning with
8 km/s tip speed with a radius of 1000 km would undergo 6G
acceleration at the tip. For a 20 km tether (the length you mention),
the tip acceleration would be 320G.
Yes, the speeds are next to zero. You don't want to be transporting
any live cargo though, or anything less tough than a homogeneous lump
of metal. And if the upper-atmosphere cargo craft misses the
rendezvous point by 1 metre the wrong way, it gets hit with a great
big whip stronger than steel and moving at around 300 km/hr.
Also, the range of orbits you can acquire seems rather limited. For
example, I don't see how you would rendezvous your cargo with a space
station for loading onto a starship, unless you have very sparse
launch windows.
Of course, you could just have the starship run around catching
cargoes that were flung in its general direction with variable speeds.
The most expensive part of interstellar shipping is the starship, so
it seems a little wasteful.
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 00:06:24 -0800
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: RE: Space Opera [was: Re: Radio Free Mongo Report!]
Jonathan McDermott wrote:
> Has anyone tried to combine space opera with hard science in their Trav
> games? I think it's safe to say that the vocal majority of Trav players
> are hard science gearheads, but what about those who prefer space opera?
When it comes to actual games, space opera, or at least a cinematic style is
the way to go. The closest I ever came to space opera was a game involving
ultra high powered Zhodani intelligence agents on a mission to snag a black
globe generator from an Imperial warship. With the funding of a huge
interstellar empire behind your operation, you are way past the level of
worrying about where that next payment for your free trader is coming from.
In actual games I have played, the hard science stuff rarely comes up. Maybe
it's never come up. I can't recall an instance of it in well over 20 years
of Traveller.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:23:32 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: GT: Starships in Playtest!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 03:10:21 -0800
From: sneadj@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: cybernetics
shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
> In mail you write:
>
> > In-Reply-To: <000b01c04f99$82cae720$3200a8c0@jeff>
> > Greetings dear hearts, especially Jeffrey.
> >
> > TRAVELLER medicine has advanced to such a point that cybernetics as
> > replacement/repair is not often necessary. There are various ways in
> > which you may interpret this: -
> >
> > 1. Culturing or cloning of body parts... so you have a diseased
> > heart, we keep you alive while we take some cells from your body and
> > force-grow one totally compatible with you (because it IS you) in
> > vitro over a couple of months, and then implant it surgically. This
> > would be perfectly legal within the normal bounds of medical
> > practice (i.e. the doctors need to be qualified M.D., etc.)
>
> We are actually doing this to a limited extent *now*! I saw a piece on
> it and right now they are doing "simple" tissues/organs such as the
> bladder. But they expect to work up to hearts and other important
> organs.
Yep, they are doing exceedingly impressive stuff in this area. I
think that artificially grown bladder transplants are already in
human testing.
> > 2. Whole-body cloning... available only to the very rich, a complete
> > body is maintained on life-support (the brain being the one bit not
> > grown, in effect it's in a permanent vegetative state) and parts may
> > be taken as and when required. Again no compatibility problems. This
> > may or may not be legal, and even when legal may be frowned upon,
> > raise ethical questions, etc.
>
> If it's got a brain *capable* of functioning, any *law student* could
> likely make the case for it being a violation of the "chattel slavery"
> law.
Agreed.
> If it doesn't have a brain, then you get into the ugly questions
> related to things like abortion. What is "human" and when does a
> fertilized egg *become* "human".
>
> Also, keep in mind that there are "ancephalic" children born. And
> decision that says a clone with no brain isn't human says *they*
> aren't human either.
And this is a problem because?
Given the wide variety of alien life, it would seem only sensible that
the Imperium would decree sentience as being in possession of a
functional sentient brain. After TL 13, Neural Activity Sensors
could even determine this fact empirically. While I imagine that
there would be a good bit of leeway for semi-sentient animals and
the mentally damaged, something like an ancephalic sentient is a
total vegetable and would sensibly be only considered useful for
organ harvesting.
> > 3. An enhanced version of contemporary organ-donation practices,
> > with improved treatment protocols to minimise rejection problems.
> > This is probably legal (assuming you go to a reputable clinic, there
> > are doubtless 'organ-leggers' to be found of far lesser legality!).
>
> And on some planets, they may gene-type any transplanted organs that
> you have (the drugs you'll probably *always* have to take make this
> rather obvious). And if they match the gene type of an organlegger
> victim on file you are in *big* trouble.
Actually, with TL 12+ technology they might well be able to tailor
viruses to alter the organ cells so that it is not rejected. That
seems perfectly normal gene therapy. However, any reasonable
method of doing this will not alter these cells enough that their
original source can't be determined.
> They may only do this if they "take an interest" in you. Say if you
> are arrested or need major medical treatment.
Makes good sense. The best way to keep organ-legging under
control is to track organs. That way, anyone who uses illegal
organ can no longer safely obtain serious legal medical treatment.
At this point, you now must depend upon criminals to survive, a
situation which few would be willing to risk. OTOH, with interstellar
travel, someone who had ever been off-world could easily claim
they got their transplant elsewhere. Given that I can't see any
world below Law Level C doing highly intensive medical scans on
all visitors, stopping organ-legging could still prove difficult. The
key to a successful business would be importing off-world organs.
Of course, such organs would have to be smuggled in, presenting
all manner of interesting scenarios for unscrupulous or unwitting
tramp freighters.
> > 5. For limb-replacements, it is likely that bio-mechanics have
> > advanced to such a state that a functional and 'natural-looking'
> > false leg or whatever can be manufactured. Using cloned skin and
> > flesh overlays it will be almost unnoticeable short of a full-body
> > scan or close medical examination. Enter the Bionic Man... these
> > could be manufactured with enhanced capabilities, if you want to pay
> > the price!
>
> "Bionic man" type *strength* enhancements are flat out impossible. For
> two reasons. First, living bone is a *lot* stronger than steel. Or any
> "bio-inert" alloy yet found. Thats's because bone is a *composite*
> material, just like fiberglass or graphite/epoxy. And since the range
> of motion and limb size place rather severe limits on the size/shape
> of bones, you can't just make things thicker.
Steel might be weaker than bone, but what about TL 12
composites, or even superdense? Stronger than bone is quite
easy with Traveller materials tech.
> Second, the bionic limb has to attach to your *non*-bionic skeleton.
> And *it* can't handle the load. So even if your bionic arm could lift
> 10 tons your shoulder, spine and legs couldn't take it.
Very true.
However, you could run superdense struts along all major bones
(this would be *very* serious surgery, but perhaps possible with TL
13 or 14 tech). It would also be *very* obvious on any sort of scan,
and you would likely gain 10 or 20 kg of mass.
Also, while you couldn't lift much more than normal (some more,
our bones can bear more weight than our muscles can lift) if you
replace an arm with an enhanced prosthetic you could get vast grip
strength and a wrist which can rotate at 500 rpm and have no
problems. Both traits could prove quite useful in the correct
situation.
> Legs are just as bad, because the pelvis has limits. And things like
> running/walking have speeds partially set by mass & length of the
> legs, as they act somewhat like a pendulum. So they have a "natural"
> rate and it takes more effort than you might expect (and thus higher
> forces applied to the pelvis) to make them swing faster.
Agreed, faster running would basically require a nearly fully robotic
body controlled by a brain in a vat.
> Some sensory enhancements are possible. But learning to use them could
> take a long time.
It should be rather easy to use them separately. Telescopic vision
would be just like using a pair of binoculars, while switching to IR
vision could be made almost exactly like using a pair of IR goggles.
OTOH, taking full advantage full spectrum vision going from IR to
UV might require extensive training, fancy genetic surgery, or it
might only be possible if used on young children.
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3308
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3309
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, November 21 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3309
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: to satsify my curiosity
BI-15 Dreadnought
RE: to satsify my curiosity
Re: to satsify my curiosity
Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
RE: One Year Anniversary MiniCon - San Jose Traveller Meet!
Re: To satisfy my curiousity,
Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures (Pulsars)
Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
Re: to satsify my curiosity
Re: to satsify my curiosity
Re: to satsify my curiosity
RE: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
Railgun (Not Railway Gun!) List
RE: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
question
RE: to satsify my curiosity
Re: to satisfy my curiosity
RE: cybernetics
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 11:11:02 +0000
From: Rob Myers <robm@h2g2.com>
Subject: Re: to satsify my curiosity
Andrew Long wrote:
>
> Loren
>
> >>>>
> > I'll confess that I gave T2K a miss on grounds of bad taste.
>
> what about the game did you find in bad taste?
>
> LKW
> <<<<
> It wasn't me posted that, but I had a similar reaction (at first.) These
> were the (if you'll pardon the expression) 'Ronnie Raygun' years
Yeah. Despite the fact that you could walk from Red Square to the White
House if you had your thermals on, the "Eurotheatre" was seen as
preferable to fighting a war on home territory. Would you like French or
German missiles stationed outside Illinois? The fact that the Americans
believed in "tactical nuclear war" and the Soviets believed in "mutually
assured destruction" explains why pop songs were generally 3 minutes
long.
"Gift, nothing to lose, stuck inside of Memphis in the mobile home, sing:
Mother Russia, Mother Russia, Mother Russia rain down, down, down." -
Sisters of Mercy.
That said...
The review in White Dwarf concluded that T2K was a game "By Americans,
for Americans, with little or no understanding of the European
perspective." This was a little harsh, and the game fleshed out very
well. It wasn't "The Price of Freedom", and anyone who thinks that it
portrays a world that has magically survived nuclear armageddon clearly
isn't familiar with the scenario it presents (conventional war sliding
into nuclear exchange and social breakdown). If GDW had portrayed what
actually happened over the same period (the end of the USSR,
re-unification of Germany and wars in the Balkans), everyone would have
thought they were mad, and been more than a little offended by some of
history's excesses.
Twilight's goals of getting home and rebuilding are noble ones, more so
than hacking orcs or upgrading to an FGMP-16 so you can really whack
those Zho's.
I'm tempted to go looking for second-hand copies.
- - Rob.
- --
Rob Myers - http://www.robmyers.org/ H2G2 - http://www.h2g2.com/
MacOS wonderfulness for The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy Game.
"Smash Global Capitalism! Spend less money!"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 19:42:54 +0800
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
Subject: BI-15 Dreadnought
During my FFS1 construction of the 700,000 dt BI-15 Dreadnought I noticed
that it carried a number of 1,000 dt craft.
Does anyone have an idea of what these craft would be?
Would they be a single type or a number of classes. SDBs, transports?
Antony
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 12:33:01 -0000
From: Matt Bond <MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RE: to satsify my curiosity
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Myers [mailto:robm@h2g2.com]
> Sent: 21 November 2000 11:11
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: to satsify my curiosity
>
>
> Andrew Long wrote:
> >
> > Loren
> >
> > >>>>
> > > I'll confess that I gave T2K a miss on grounds of bad taste.
> >
> > what about the game did you find in bad taste?
> >
> > LKW
> > <<<<
> > It wasn't me posted that, but I had a similar reaction (at
> first.) These
> > were the (if you'll pardon the expression) 'Ronnie Raygun' years
>
> Yeah. Despite the fact that you could walk from Red Square to
> the White
> House if you had your thermals on, the "Eurotheatre" was seen as
> preferable to fighting a war on home territory. Would you
> like French or
> German missiles stationed outside Illinois? The fact that the
> Americans
> believed in "tactical nuclear war" and the Soviets believed
> in "mutually
> assured destruction" explains why pop songs were generally 3 minutes
> long.
Que?
I presume the 'walking to America' option involves traversing the Arctic
Icecap... trick at best, as it it's frozen all the way to Russia, by the
time you get to the Canadian side there will be clear water to cross.
Also, a single nuke onto the ice will wipe out the entire attacking
army, never mind the logistics of the operation, and fighting down
through the tundra of Northern Canada... The mind boggles.
Just where do you think a land based invasion of the US was going to
come from? As for the picking up the pieces of the shattered US, and the
internecine conflict between CivGov and MilGov, as well as the myriad
warlords and bandits, there was plenty of that in T:2000. That's as far
a WWIII on US soil goes though.
And as the most likely place for a conventional confrontation leading to
a nuclear exchange between NATO and Warsaw Pact troops in the late 90's
(given the position of the respective forces at the time of writing in
the mid 80's) was Eastern to Central Europe, then it would have been
mildly ridiculous to set it anywhere else.
Characters were by no means obligated to be gung-ho US Marines. Most of
the 'parties' are expected to be composed of a scratch force of
bedraggled survivors from many nations, often including former
opponents. IIRC, the first game I played in had a couple of Yanks, a
Brit, a German, and a Hungarian as PC's
I note from the rest of your email (that I have snipped for brevity)
that you go on to say that the game wasn't as bad and gung-ho as you or
others feared, but anyone to deride an American written game about the
aftermath of WWII for being set in Central Europe just makes no sense at
all. Where would you have set it otherwise (realistically). To object to
the real world politics that lead to US forces being stationed in Europe
is one thing, but to castigate a game and it's designers for expanding
on that real world situation is ludicrous. It was hardly as if the game
was promoting a political philosophy of "Hey! Nuclear war isn't so bad,
after all it's only the dumb Europeans that'll be glowing". Of course,
if someone thinks (or thought at the time) that *was* the philosophy of
the game, then that says more for that persons inability to seperate
fantasy from reality than any real understanding of the game or it's
authors.
I'm not having a go at anyone in particular (at least that isn't my
intention), but I've always preferred to judge a game system on it's
playability, rather on whether it's premise is Politically Correct. If
it sucks as a system, I won't play it (though I may adapt the background
to another system). If it's setting is 'uncomfortable' or unappealing to
me, I may not play it but I wouldn't decry it out of hand (and I may
even use the system to play a different setting.
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:12:15 +0000
From: Rob Myers <robm@h2g2.com>
Subject: Re: to satsify my curiosity
Matt Bond wrote:
> Just where do you think a land based invasion of the US was going to
> come from?
Canada or Mexico. :-)
I don't know. Where did "Red Dawn", "Price of Freedom" and "Amerika"
have it coming from?
> I note from the rest of your email (that I have snipped for brevity)
> that you go on to say that the game wasn't as bad and gung-ho as you or
> others feared,
Yes, I came to praise T2K, not to bury it (despite "Bangcock:Cesspool of
the Orient", which I will now shut up about). My point is that the
context it was received in is important to understand how it was
regarded at the time.
> but anyone to deride an American written game about the
> aftermath of WWIII for being set in Central Europe just makes no sense at
> all. Where would you have set it otherwise (realistically).
America or the Eastern Bloc. The scenario was regarded as believable by
the culture that produced it, that is the thing that shocked Europeans.
I know it wasn't regarded as likely, possible, realistic or ideal. But
it wasn't a world ruled by giant intelligent mung beans. The Eurotheatre
makes perfect sense on a diet of domino theory, but European visions of
WWIII tended to be a bit shorter than the American ones. Usually about
15 minutes, in fact.
> Of course,
> if someone thinks (or thought at the time) that *was* the philosophy of
> the game, then that says more for that persons inability to seperate
> fantasy from reality than any real understanding of the game or it's
> authors.
Absolutely. GDW were the same people who gave use Space:1889 and 2300AD,
both games with a very European perspective.
> I'm not having a go at anyone in particular (at least that isn't my
> intention), but I've always preferred to judge a game system on it's
> playability, rather on whether it's premise is Politically Correct.
Did you ever see the RPG "Reich Star"? :-)
- - Rob.
- --
Rob Myers - http://www.robmyers.org/ H2G2 - http://www.h2g2.com/
MacOS wonderfulness for The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy Game.
"Smash Global Capitalism! Spend less money!"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 08:24:51 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
>How energetic are these flares? Enough to bake a planet clean? I
>suspect anything less would just be another source of energy for
>developing life to use.
There are two issues that affect this.
- - Logically, smaller and dimmer stars should have smaller and dimmer flares.
This isn't the case, however. Roughly speaking all flares are the same
brightness in visual wavelengths. On the sun, a flare is not really
important. On a M-class dwarf, a normal-sized flare is enough to double the
brightness of the star. So suddenly any planets are getting twice as much
heat as they were before. However, most flares last short periods of time,
so I suppose it wouldn't be totally unreasonable to suppose that life could
handle this.
- - The real problem is hard radiation. Oddly enough, M-class dwarfs produce
flares that are more energetic than the ones sun-like stars do. Once you get
outside of the visual wavelengths into the nasty stuff like ultraviolet and
x-rays, the dwarfs go nuts. The flares of an M-class dwarf gives off
thousands of times more x-rays than those of G-class stars.
So, yeah, I'd say that'd bake a planet clean, in the real universe anyway.
SFnal excuses can apply in the 3I, of course.
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 08:28:10 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
>>On the other hand, most M-class dwarfs are also flare stars. Anything
>>close enough to be in the life zone isn't likely to support life for that
>>reason.
>
>Well, it's also possible (though not likely) that the lifeforms *use*
>the flare energy to make compounds which they live off of between
>flares.
If it were just normal light, I'd agree with you. But flare star flares pump
out *a lot* of x-rays. There's energy and then there's way too much energy,
know what I mean? It's difficult to picture a biosphere that eats regular
doses of ionizing radiation like candy, not without some serious scientific
handwaving anyway.
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 22:29:29 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: RE: One Year Anniversary MiniCon - San Jose Traveller Meet!
> From: "Luther Martin"
> Alan Bradley wrote:
> >This range thing sounds like perfect munchkin bait: use weapons and
> >other gear that can cover the table, and no more.
> Have you actually played Striker, or any Traveller game involving
> weapons? This behavior comes with any weapon systems designed at mid to
> high tech levels. Technology always seems to make weapon systems perform
> better instead of worse. It's funny that way. Come to think of it, the
> real world seems to work that way also.
I wasn't saying that you guys are munchkins. I was saying that as long as
your weapons have enough range to effectively cover the table, they don't
need any more. Potentially this can be abused by munchkins, who are more
concerned with game effects than game universe "reality".
That is, the optimal Striker weapon doesn't need a whole lot of range.
This is a game artifact.
Sorry for miscommunicating.
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 23:00:53 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: To satisfy my curiousity,
> > I'll confess that I gave T2K a miss on grounds of bad taste.
>
> what about the game did you find in bad taste?
>
> LKW
Andrew Long has covered it pretty well, except in my case, it would be
necessary to massively amplify the strength of the reaction.
I've mentioned on the list before that an ancestor of mine threw an egg at
the Australian Prime Minister during the First World War. I would probably
have felt obliged to follow suit if the Third had come along. And if a
nuclear exchange happened, it might not be an egg I would have thrown.
In other words, I had a bad case of anti-war movementism.
Was my response rational? Probably not. But clearly I wasn't going to
have fun playing the game. I checked out the Merc 2000 setting later, but
it didn't work for me either.
The funny thing is that I was quite OK with 2300, which had the Twilight
War in its background, and with Traveller, where nuclear exchanges occur
simultaneously on hundreds if not thousands of worlds in the 5FW and
Rebellion. Weirder, I am of course, a WW2 period wargamer. (But I don't
play post-WW2.)
I guess the problem was that WW3 was too real a possibility, and was my war
to oppose. I was most weirded out last year when I found myself supporting
Australian troops being sent to East Timor. Of course I had always
defended the right of the East Timorese to blow up and shoot Indonesians!
So basically, T2K not only pushed my buttons like I was a piano accordian,
it played a polka on them.
And now I've convinced everyone on the list that I am nuts. Oh well, they
should have worked that out by now.
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 08:38:06 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures (Pulsars)
I wonder if ships in the 3I are hardened enough to approach a system with a
pulsar star? Are the belters crazy enough... :)
Mike
<--- non techie
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 08:48:14 -0500 (EST)
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
On Mon, 20 Nov 2000, Paul Drye wrote:
>
> On the other hand, most M-class dwarfs are also flare stars. Anything close
> enough to be in the life zone isn't likely to support life for that reason.
Furthermore, I vaguely recall reading that getting close enough to
dim red dwarf stars to stay warm also means exposing your planet to
rather severe tidal/gravitational forces.
- J. Raynor
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 08:55:52 -0500
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: to satsify my curiosity
At 08:13 AM 11/21/2000 +0400, you wrote:
>Loren
>
> >>>>
> > I'll confess that I gave T2K a miss on grounds of bad taste.
>
>what about the game did you find in bad taste?
>
>LKW
One thing that I (and my friends) noticed was that the first edition of T2K
had a very "hard" edge and feel to it. More grit than glamor if you
will. The modules and supplements supported this feel by the tone of the
writing, the quality of the artwork, and the subject matter. When this was
evolved to T2K v.2, that seemed to change. Gone was the sober tone,
subdued colors, and excellent artwork; they were replaced with bright,
happy colors on the cover, artwork that IMO pandered to the Warhammer 40k
crowd, and some of poorest quality for the dollar supplements I've seen.
(Specifically the Aviation supplement. A typo here or there I can handle,
but this thing was riddled with them as well as giving real world weapons
capabilities that they never had.)
I guess, for me, the first edition was "on the edge" while the second was
just a game.
Kurt Feltenberger
"To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,
may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"
~Stephen Decatur
mailto:kurt@blazenet.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 07:06:50 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: to satsify my curiosity
On Tue, 21 Nov 2000, Rob Myers wrote:
> Matt Bond wrote:
>
> > Just where do you think a land based invasion of the US was going to
> > come from?
>
> Canada or Mexico. :-)
> I don't know. Where did "Red Dawn", "Price of Freedom" and "Amerika"
> have it coming from?
That magical place called 'bad script land'. None of them ever quite
mentioned how the logistics of it all went.
Oh, except for the Mexico part. Thats where the invincible hordes of
commie Sandinistas were going to be marching through and invading us.
OOps! That's right, they are! Part of the evil commie plot to infiltrate
the US and take over by working really crappy jobs for really low wages
with no security at all! Why Pinky, it's my most brilliant plan ever!
Narf!
<ahem>
That aside, the scenario in TW2K was pretty much based in the same
assumptions that NATO was working off all those years.
Of course, those scenarios were based on SuperIvan (TM), those legions of
heroic Soviet soldiers, ten feet tall and bulletproof, and their magical
tanks, which fought without needing fuel or ammo.
(I saw more realistic estimates that a generalized Soviet advance into
Europe would be sustainable for about 50-60 miles before they ran out of
fuel, which was stored in large centralized depots deep within Russia
to cut down on local commanders selling it on the black market for food.)
As Patton learned the hard way, troops may march on their belloies, but
tanks need gasoline, and you just can't scrounge that off the land.
But, as always, the generals were planning for the _last_ war.
Hitler showed them the Maginot line wouldn't work, so they planned for a
Blitzkrieg without warning by the Soviets.
How the Soviets were expected to move that many armored divisions into
attack readiness without _someone_ noticing is beyond me.
I mean, Hitler at least could count on NOT being watched by satellite and
SR71's, his main Naval ports on both coasts did NOT have their most secure
lines tapped (as they had been for decades), and the main powers were
seriously _under_estimating his state of military readiness.
How anyone ever came up with any reason _why_ the Soviets would invade is
even farther beyond me.
All of this in the face of the clear evidence (from the Afhghanistan war)
of the limitations and weaknesses of the Soviet military.
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:08:05 -0500
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: to satsify my curiosity
At 01:12 PM 11/21/2000 +0000, you wrote:
> > I'm not having a go at anyone in particular (at least that isn't my
> > intention), but I've always preferred to judge a game system on it's
> > playability, rather on whether it's premise is Politically Correct.
>
>Did you ever see the RPG "Reich Star"? :-)
Yep. Interesting game, but a very dark world. In T2K, you had good guys,
bad guys, and those somewhere in between. RS had bad guys, badder guys,
Oriental bad guys, Oriental badder guys, and the PCs. After reading the
rules, my friends and I likened it to a modern version of Call of C.; you
know you're going to die, but you do all you can to postpone it as long as
possible.
Kurt Feltenberger
"To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,
may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"
~Stephen Decatur
mailto:kurt@blazenet.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:36:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: RE: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
Paul Drye writes:
<snipped>
>The "real science" I've seen on the subject usually places the lower
>boundary on the main sequence for truly habitable planets around K5-K7
>dwarfs. The upper limit is somewhere in the vicinity of F5, depending on how
>long you think life takes to come into existence and how resistant you think
>it could be to ultraviolet life.
Keep in mind that life evolved on Terra long before there was an ozone
layer. Of course, there would be much high levels of UV radiation
near some other stars, but life could happily evolve deep down in the
oceans or even under the ground. After that, well, natural selection
is a powerful process.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 06:21:39 -0800
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Railgun (Not Railway Gun!) List
on 11/21/00 3:22 AM, Michael Robert Blair at pellinoire@yahoo.com wrote:
> Try the URL
> http://www.cix.co.uk/~efmiwg7/railgun/
>
> Though as the list is on EGroups you might also try
> www.egroups.com
>
> Hope this helps.
Actually, I'm looking for the railgun list, as in electro-magnetic gun.
- --
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend"
- --
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.solsec.org
http://www.grandsurvey.com
http://travellerguns.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:48:43 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
>Keep in mind that life evolved on Terra long before there was an ozone
>layer. Of course, there would be much high levels of UV radiation
>near some other stars, but life could happily evolve deep down in the
>oceans or even under the ground. After that, well, natural selection
>is a powerful process.
But also a long one. Useful multicellularity took a long time to arise on
Earth, something like 3.0-3.5 billion years. Even if you assume that some
worlds will do the trick in, say, half that time or even less, larger stars
just don't last that long. So F5 (and brighter) stars suffer from the double
obstacle of not only bathing their worlds in ultraviolet, but also not
giving any organisms enough time to evolve around the problem and into
something cool before their sun leaves the main sequence.
I mean, I like algae just fine, but it's not very interesting from a SFnal
standpoint.
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:49:34 EST
From: CPoppcap@aol.com
Subject: question
not to start a war but the IRIS stuff what issue of Challenge was it in.
And if I could I would like to either buy the issius from someone,either
originals or copies
thank you,
Charles Popp
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 06:42:44
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: to satsify my curiosity
At 12:33 PM 11/21/2000 -0000, you wrote:
>Just where do you think a land based invasion of the US was going to
>come from?
Siberia. Anybody else remember Oil War, Microgame whateveritwas?
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 06:53:11
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: to satisfy my curiosity
At 01:12 PM 11/21/2000 +0000, you wrote:
>makes perfect sense on a diet of domino theory, but European visions of
>WWIII tended to be a bit shorter than the American ones. Usually about
>15 minutes, in fact.
History is littered with failed predictions about war. The Great War was
going to be a quick romp, the Germans would easily take Moscow by October,
the boys in Korea would be home by Christmas, Iraq was going to give us the
"mother of all battles"...
I think that the scenarios provided (2nd Ed. updated it a little) were
fairly realistic. And as a vet, I found very little to complain about with
their presentation of the military, even a broken down one.
>Did you ever see the RPG "Reich Star"? :-)
Gah. My ex-roommate had a skill for picking out the absolute *worst* RPGs
as gifts. He got me that one year for Hanukkah, as a joke. Bloody awful
all the way through.
There was a wargame, "NATO, Nukes, and Nazis" that proposed an alternate
universe where Germany and the US held their first A-bomb tests within
hours of each other, and WWII ended in a stalemate, with Hitler holding
most of western Europe, except for the Free French Republic, and also
having the mostly radioactive remains of the Soviet Union. NATO are the
remnants of the Allies, dedicated to at least containing the Thousand Year
Reich.
Used it as a setting in a world-hopping CORPS game I did. Finding
Checkpoint Charlie in Brussels, with Nazis on the other side, was a bit of
a shock for the players.
- --
Douglas E. Berry Templar Agent at Large.
gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
TravGeekCode:
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:57:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: RE: cybernetics
John Snead writes:
<snipped>
>>"Bionic man" type *strength* enhancements are flat out impossible. For
>>two reasons. First, living bone is a *lot* stronger than steel. Or any
>>"bio-inert" alloy yet found. Thats's because bone is a *composite*
>>material, just like fiberglass or graphite/epoxy. And since the range
>>of motion and limb size place rather severe limits on the size/shape
>>of bones, you can't just make things thicker.
>Steel might be weaker than bone, but what about TL 12
>composites, or even superdense? Stronger than bone is quite
>easy with Traveller materials tech.
True, but don't forget that structure is not the only function
of some bones. Red blood cells (RBCs) only last about
120 days in humans (IIRC), and must be constantly
replaced. In an adult human, new RBCs are produced in
certain bones (upper leg bones, pelvic bones, sternum,
and skull, IIRC). Replacing bones with synthetic materials
will necessitate some alternative RBC-producing system.
On the subject of blood, keep in mind that a human body
is an integrated machine, not merely a collection of
systems. There are a number of consequences of
replacement of (e.g.) the legs: more difficulty in
maintaining body temperature, more prone to shock
due to lower total blood volume, hormone problems for
the same reason, higher sensitivity to drugs due to
lower total biomass, etc.
>>Second, the bionic limb has to attach to your *non*-bionic skeleton.
>>And *it* can't handle the load. So even if your bionic arm could lift
>>10 tons your shoulder, spine and legs couldn't take it.
<snipped>
>Also, while you couldn't lift much more than normal (some more,
>our bones can bear more weight than our muscles can lift) if you
>replace an arm with an enhanced prosthetic you could get vast grip
>strength and a wrist which can rotate at 500 rpm and have no
>problems. Both traits could prove quite useful in the correct
>situation.
<snipped>
One should be careful about using the "extra" capacity of
bones. We are "overdesigned" for a reason. Although
our muscles do not routinely pull as haed as our bones
can take, under extreme effort our muscles can break
bones (to say nothing of tendons and ligaments). Our
muscles are actually incredably strong. As an exersize,
try calculating the force that a bicep must generate for
someone to lift 25 kg with their hand while their lower
arm is horizontal.
Peez
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3309
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3310
Date: | 11/21/00 9:13:45 AM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, November 21 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3310
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
RE:Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
Re: to satsify my curiosity
Re: to satsify my curiosity
Re: to satsify my curiosity
Technology Marches On: The Six Million Dollar Monkey?
RE: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
RE: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
RE: Technology Marches On: The Six Million Dollar Monkey?
Re: to satisfy my curiosity
RE:Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
RE:Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
RE:Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
RE:Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
Re: to satsify my curiosity
Re: to satsify my curiosity
Re: Nuclear War
Re: cybernetics
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 14:56:48 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE:Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
>
> Gah. My ex-roommate had a skill for picking out the absolute
> *worst* RPGs
> as gifts. He got me that one year for Hanukkah, as a joke.
> Bloody awful
> all the way through.
>
Could be worse...with cross-overs and varients you can create all sorts of
monstrosities (eg GURPS Whorehouse 23) . Howabout a Traveller/Kult
crossover? <shudder>
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 14:58:52 +0000
From: Rob Myers <robm@h2g2.com>
Subject: Re: to satsify my curiosity
Some decades ago, the US military were showing aerial recon pictures of
Soviet grain silos, swearing blind that they were disguised missile
silos, and demanding thousands of extra ICBMs just to play catch-up.
ObTrav: Well, replace US with 3I and Soviet with the regime of your
choice and you're away. :-)
- - Rob.
Bruce Johnson wrote:
> (I saw more realistic estimates that a generalized Soviet advance into
> Europe would be sustainable for about 50-60 miles before they ran out of
> fuel, which was stored in large centralized depots deep within Russia
> to cut down on local commanders selling it on the black market for food.)
- --
Rob Myers - http://www.robmyers.org/ H2G2 - http://www.h2g2.com/
MacOS wonderfulness for The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy Game.
"Smash Global Capitalism! Spend less money!"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 15:01:44 +0000
From: Rob Myers <robm@h2g2.com>
Subject: Re: to satsify my curiosity
Siberia was purchased by the US from the Russians, IIRC. And the border
used to look Soviet-wards. The military base wasn't there for fun.
- - Rob.
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
>
> At 12:33 PM 11/21/2000 -0000, you wrote:
>
> >Just where do you think a land based invasion of the US was going to
> >come from?
>
> Siberia. Anybody else remember Oil War, Microgame whateveritwas?
- --
Rob Myers - http://www.robmyers.org/ H2G2 - http://www.h2g2.com/
MacOS wonderfulness for The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy Game.
"Smash Global Capitalism! Spend less money!"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 15:08:08 +0000
From: Rob Myers <robm@h2g2.com>
Subject: Re: to satsify my curiosity
Argh! I meant Alaska!
Baked Siberia just isn't the same...
- - Rob.
Rob Myers wrote:
>
> Siberia was purchased by the US from the Russians, IIRC. And the border
> used to look Soviet-wards. The military base wasn't there for fun.
>
> - Rob.
>
> "Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
> >
> > At 12:33 PM 11/21/2000 -0000, you wrote:
> >
> > >Just where do you think a land based invasion of the US was going to
> > >come from?
> >
> > Siberia. Anybody else remember Oil War, Microgame whateveritwas?
- --
Rob Myers - http://www.robmyers.org/ H2G2 - http://www.h2g2.com/
MacOS wonderfulness for The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy Game.
"Smash Global Capitalism! Spend less money!"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:14:07 -0600
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <dasmart@avaya.com>
Subject: Technology Marches On: The Six Million Dollar Monkey?
The following was posted on ABC's news site:
- -- quote --
B A L T I M O R E, Nov. 15
Researchers have wired the brains of monkeys to control
robotic arms, a feat that could one day allow paralyzed
people and amputees to move artificial arms and legs
merely by thinking.
The wires fed electrical impulses from the brains of two
monkeys into a computer linked to robotic arms. When the
monkeys reached for food or manipulated a joystick, the
robotic arms mimicked those motions...
- -- end quote --
ObTrav: TL 8-9 cybernetics!
The full story is at:
http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DailyNews/monkeybrain001115.html
David Smart
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 10:19:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: RE: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
Paul Drye writes:
>>Keep in mind that life evolved on Terra long before there was an ozone
>>layer. Of course, there would be much high levels of UV radiation
>>near some other stars, but life could happily evolve deep down in the
>>oceans or even under the ground. After that, well, natural selection
>>is a powerful process.
>But also a long one. Useful multicellularity took a long time to arise on
>Earth, something like 3.0-3.5 billion years. Even if you assume that some
>worlds will do the trick in, say, half that time or even less, larger stars
>just don't last that long. So F5 (and brighter) stars suffer from the double
>obstacle of not only bathing their worlds in ultraviolet, but also not
>giving any organisms enough time to evolve around the problem and into
>something cool before their sun leaves the main sequence.
Evolution can move faster than you might expect, and adapting to
high radiation levels may occur fairly quickly. OTOH, although we
do have just the one example of evolution to work from, it does
seem likely that evolving multicellular organisms will usually take
a while. OTGH, once we had multicellular organisms it only took
a few hundred million years to get mammals. Anyhow, I would
expect time to be a constraint in these systems much more than
radiation.
>I mean, I like algae just fine, but it's not very interesting from a SFnal
>standpoint.
Multicellular elitist.
:)
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 10:22:40 -0500
From: Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>
> Think "CB" and "ham radio". Also, *now* with all the buried fiber optic
> lines belonging to a *dozen* or more long distance companies, it'd be
> *real* hard to take out the long distance phone system.
Hm. Well, cable without switches isn't much use and last time I checked,
most teleco switches were still above ground in farily easy-to-nuke
buildings. Plus there's still practically no all-optical switching
in production use, so EMP will pretty much scramble the network, even
though the transport isn't directly effected.
There was a great example of some failure mode analysis in this month's
IEEE Spectrum, talking about the International Space Station... like
the new higher-voltage power distribution system that unintentionally
interacts with charges picked up from the ionosphere, causing major arcing
along the surface of the modules. Woo hoo.
- --
Ethan Henry ethan.henry@sitraka.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 10:53:59 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
>>I mean, I like algae just fine, but it's not very interesting from a SFnal
>>standpoint.
>
> Multicellular elitist.
Player: "I point my FGMP-15 at it."
(GM rolls dice)
GM: "Nope, the kelp is still photosynthesizing...."
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 15:53:27 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Technology Marches On: The Six Million Dollar Monkey?
For more see the SJG Illuminator a couple of days ago.
Dean
>
> The following was posted on ABC's news site:
>
> -- quote --
>
> B A L T I M O R E, Nov. 15
> Researchers have wired the brains of monkeys to control
> robotic arms, a feat that could one day allow paralyzed
> people and amputees to move artificial arms and legs
> merely by thinking.
>
> The wires fed electrical impulses from the brains of two
> monkeys into a computer linked to robotic arms. When the
> monkeys reached for food or manipulated a joystick, the
> robotic arms mimicked those motions...
>
> -- end quote --
>
> ObTrav: TL 8-9 cybernetics!
>
> The full story is at:
>
> http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DailyNews/monkeybra
in001115.html
David Smart
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 07:05:28
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: to satisfy my curiosity
At 07:06 AM 11/21/2000 -0700, you wrote:
<snip>
>Of course, those scenarios were based on SuperIvan (TM), those legions of
>heroic Soviet soldiers, ten feet tall and bulletproof, and their magical
>tanks, which fought without needing fuel or ammo.
<snip>
>How the Soviets were expected to move that many armored divisions into
>attack readiness without _someone_ noticing is beyond me.
<snip>
>How anyone ever came up with any reason _why_ the Soviets would invade is
>even farther beyond me.
Bruce, the reason for the Cold War is that Colonel Reinhard Gehlen, Nazi
spymaster, needed a job.
At the end of WWII, Gehlen took all the German intel on the Soviets, and
made a deal with the Americans. "Wipe my records clean, and I'll give you
everything you ever needed to know about the Big Bad Commies. The OSS
(later CIA) eagerly agreed, and Gehlen set up his Org to process information.
What Gehlen did was lie. He portrayed the Soviet forces in eastern Europe
as tough, dedicated troops with heavy mechanized support. In reality, most
of the were tired Asiatic who only wanted to go home, and used horses to
haul artillery. Gehlen also taught his US counterparts the secrets to
running a real covert ops unit, something the CIA was never supposed to be!
Read _Gehlen, Spy of the Century_ by E.H. Cookridge for the entire chilling
tale.
>All of this in the face of the clear evidence (from the Afhghanistan war)
>of the limitations and weaknesses of the Soviet military.
Until then, nobody knew! We'd never seen them in action, except in
set-piece training exercises that were closer to ballet than battle.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 07:45:55
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: RE:Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
At 02:56 PM 11/21/2000 -0000, you wrote:
>Could be worse...with cross-overs and varients you can create all sorts of
>monstrosities (eg GURPS Whorehouse 23) . Howabout a Traveller/Kult
>crossover? <shudder>
Traveller/Metamorphosis Alpha. We mis-jumped, and came out in deep space,
then this big ship appeared...
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 07:55:23
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: RE:Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
At 02:56 PM 11/21/2000 -0000, you wrote:
>
>Could be worse...with cross-overs and varients you can create all sorts of
>monstrosities (eg GURPS Whorehouse 23) . Howabout a Traveller/Kult
>crossover? <shudder>
Just dug this up:
GURPS Dada/Surrealism.
The book's covers are inside quality paper, which have the word
"wombat" printed in 5 pt. type. Inside is a series of cover pages, each
completely blank except for the nose prints of SJG employees. The binding is
designed to fall apart after two uses.
This is a commentary on the true transitional nature of all art,
and the absurdity of venerating old pieces simple due to age. Or
maybe not. Newts Are Green. Paradimythalaminobenzalidhyde. Pass
Go, but the previous played robbed the place. Fnord.
GURPS Secret Service.
I'd review it, but a bunch of clueless twits with radios and MP-5s seized it,
claiming it was a manual for being clueless twits with radios and MP-5s.
GURPS Atlas Shrugged
"Okay. The six-foot-three capitalist rapes you. Roll versus Will - 2 to
avoid falling in love with him."
GURPS Postmodernism:
"I attempt to hegemonize hir epistemological discourse!"
"Make an Obfuscation roll at minus 3."
"Put *this* under erasure, Derrida-boy!"
GURPS Surrealism: Ceci n'est pas un jeu...
GURPS: Edward Bellamy -- the campaign begins as neat-o science fiction, but
the only things the NPCs will discuss is economic theory.
GURPS: John Steinbeck -- every few hours, the GM interrupts gameplay to
talk about a turtle crossing the road.
GURPS: James Joyce -- characters forge the uncreated conscience of their
race in the smith of their souls, but no one understands it.
GURPS: Hemingway -- Characters play. In the campaign.
GURPS: Samuel Coleridge -- dull campaign, unless the GM has used inebriants
prior to gameplay, in which case it is highly imaginative.
GURPS: Anthony Robbins -- characters spend all their starting cash trying
to unleash the 14th Level Fighter within.
GURPS: L. Ron Hubbard -- characters quest for increasingly large sums of cash
in order to acquire superhuman (but never demonstrated) powers.
GURPS: Lao Tzu -- The rules that can be known are not the rules that can
be written.
GURPS: Sartre -- no GM required! The characters wander around wondering if
they're just characters in someone else's game.
GURPS: Salvador Dali -- The characters blue paper clip Easter ham Mercury
greasy Volkswagen.
GURPS: Karl Marx -- characters write long tracts espousing revolutionary
ideals, yet never leave the British Public Museum.
GURPS: Freud -- you never stop character creation, you just keep refining
your character's early memories.
GURPS: William F. Buckley -- characters engage in unrequited sophistry,
employing an antidisestablishmentarian methodology.
GURPS: Objectivism -- characters ignore completely what the GM has prepared
because it is their rational choice to do so.
GURPS: Fermat -- no rules, just a sidebar apologizing for lack of space.
GURPS Old West GothicCthulhuSpacePunk IOU 1889 Psionic Martial Arts --
A vampiric Elder God with a Victorian spaceship in Dodge City teaching in the
College of Zen Studies, CZS 231: Self Defense Through Offensive Existence.
And since it's IOU, you can start doing some genre crossovers!
And speaking of crossovers...
GURPS Robots/Voodoo: "Come, my ancestors. Come, 6502. Come, Amiga. Come,
P6."
GURPS Ice Age/Atomic Horror: fire, the wheel, writing, and other things man
was not meant to know.
GURPS Ultra-Tech Bestiary: Wild, man-eating computers!
GURPS Prisoner Uplift: I am not a number, I am an Ape!
GURPS Vampire Aliens: Klaatu Carotid Nicked You
GURPS Atomic Horror Crosstime Saloon: Can you keep the giant ants out of the
beer nuts?
GURPS Martial Arts Fantasy Folk: Hobbit ninjas!
GURPS Arabian Espionage Nights: Camel drivers by day, Oasis Shock Troops by
night.
GURPS Creatures of the Night Religion: There are but twenty gods, and the
bogeyman is their prophet.
GURPS Old West Vehicles: 156 pages on horse drawn carriages!
GURPS Psionic Swashbucklers: Rapier wit.
GURPS China The Prisoner.
-- My name is Shi (to be).
-- No, your name is Shi (number ten).
-- I am not a numeric logogram! I am a... syllabic ideogram?
GURPS Viking Illuminati: fjord.
- --
Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"I am the penguin bold! We sailed the sea, to tringalee,
in search of spanish gold" - The Magic Pudding - Norman Lindsay
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 11:10:03 -0500 (EST)
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
Subject: RE:Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
On Tue, 21 Nov 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> At 02:56 PM 11/21/2000 -0000, you wrote:
>
> >Could be worse...with cross-overs and varients you can create all sorts
> >of monstrosities (eg GURPS Whorehouse 23) . Howabout a Traveller/Kult
> >crossover? <shudder>
>
> Traveller/Metamorphosis Alpha. We mis-jumped, and came out in deep space,
> then this big ship appeared...
Traveller/Bunnies+Burrows?
- J. R.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 08:16:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
Subject: RE:Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
On Tue, 21 Nov 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> GURPS Atlas Shrugged
> "Okay. The six-foot-three capitalist rapes you. Roll versus Will - 2 to
> avoid falling in love with him."
That was The Fountainhead. No one got raped in AS.
> GURPS Old West GothicCthulhuSpacePunk IOU 1889 Psionic Martial Arts --
> A vampiric Elder God with a Victorian spaceship in Dodge City teaching in the
> College of Zen Studies, CZS 231: Self Defense Through Offensive Existence.
> And since it's IOU, you can start doing some genre crossovers!
I'd play that.
> GURPS China The Prisoner.
> -- My name is Shi (to be).
> -- No, your name is Shi (number ten).
> -- I am not a numeric logogram! I am a... syllabic ideogram?
Shi is #4 in Japanese. This is a bad thing to have in your name. It also
means "Death" when written with a different character. My name means
"fog" but the more usual character is a kind of tree. So I have to
explain this a lot.
LOL,
Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..." -- X-JAPAN
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 11:28:38 -0500
From: howard.anderson@psu.edu (Cheng Tseng)
Subject: Re: to satsify my curiosity
>But, as always, the generals were planning for the _last_ war.
I sense an old line of argument on the military coming up.
>
>Hitler showed them the Maginot line wouldn't work, so they planned for a
>Blitzkrieg without warning by the Soviets.
So? Would you prefer they had not, and then the Soviets decide to show them
the Red Army really could?
Not planning for worst-case scenarios because it appears impossible is a
*really* bad idea. After all, Sir John Nott envisioned the Royal Navy only
having to fight in the North Atlantic with US carrier groups and the RAF in
close support. Who would have thought that not more then two decades
afterwards, the RN would have to fight a war 3000+ miles from home and
definitely without air support?
>
>How the Soviets were expected to move that many armored divisions into
>attack readiness without _someone_ noticing is beyond me.
Crap happens. Ask the Israelis about the Yom Kippur War sometimes.
>
>I mean, Hitler at least could count on NOT being watched by satellite and
>SR71's, his main Naval ports on both coasts did NOT have their most secure
>lines tapped (as they had been for decades), and the main powers were
>seriously _under_estimating his state of military readiness.
SR-71? Ah...
>
>How anyone ever came up with any reason _why_ the Soviets would invade is
>even farther beyond me.
Opportunitism, for one. If they really felt NATO was going attack them, for
another.
>All of this in the face of the clear evidence (from the Afhghanistan war)
>of the limitations and weaknesses of the Soviet military.
Assuming you want to take the risk to generalize from the specific example.
In retrospect, Afghanistan was a good explanation why any war in Western
Europe would have resulted in a shambles for the Red Army. But hindsight is
something you don't get until after everything has been said and done...and
some of things the Red Army suffered in that war were so unbelievable as to
require a second and third reading. Who would have thought that the 40th
Army would suffer from *typhus* epidemics in this day and age, for example?
And having over 20% sickness in all five of your combat divisions is
something that nobody expects is this day and age.
And that does not even cover their tactical or operational thinking...
C.T.
"Retiring student loans, one miserable cent at a time."
Cheng Tseng - Will econ forecast for food.
Search the Net and Make Some Cash:
http://www.catpile.com/index.shtml?refid=ctseng
http://www.searchcactus.com/member/welcome.asp?7024
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 10:30:01 -0600
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: to satsify my curiosity
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
>
> At 12:33 PM 11/21/2000 -0000, you wrote:
>
> >Just where do you think a land based invasion of the US was going to
> >come from?
>
> Siberia. Anybody else remember Oil War, Microgame whateveritwas?
That was Ice War, IIRC. (Oil War was an SPI product ca. 1975, based on
US intervention in the Persian Gulf. Ah, the F-111....)
I recall spending many happy hours in Ice War, popping nukes to melt the
polar ice cap to slow down the Commie hordes. That was a well-misspent
youth!
- --
"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you
least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of
your unit."
-- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's
magazine of preventive maintenance
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 12:03:38 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: Nuclear War
- --part1_60.8f33f12.274c04ea_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 11/21/00 6:59:28 AM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:
> I note from the rest of your email (that I have snipped for brevity)
> that you go on to say that the game wasn't as bad and gung-ho as you or
> others feared, but anyone to deride an American written game about the
> aftermath of WWII for being set in Central Europe just makes no sense at
> all. Where would you have set it otherwise (realistically). To object to
> the real world politics that lead to US forces being stationed in Europe
> is one thing, but to castigate a game and it's designers for expanding
> on that real world situation is ludicrous. It was hardly as if the game
> was promoting a political philosophy of "Hey! Nuclear war isn't so bad,
> after all it's only the dumb Europeans that'll be glowing". Of course,
> if someone thinks (or thought at the time) that *was* the philosophy of
> the game, then that says more for that persons inability to seperate
> fantasy from reality than any real understanding of the game or it's
> authors.
>
>
The possible other thing to remember is that the West, in particular the
European countries (from the American viewpoint) weren't willing to maintain
the necessary forces to deal with the Russian numerical advantage (thus
possibly obligating the possible use of TacNucs).
There were 2 good books written by a former British chief of Nato (Haig?),
that cover the battle scenario and some of the polirical ramifications behind
what happened.
Bryan
- --part1_60.8f33f12.274c04ea_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 11/21/00 6:59:28 AM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I note from the rest of your email (that I have snipped for brevity)
that you go on to say that the game wasn't as bad and gung-ho as you or
others feared, but anyone to deride an American written game about the
aftermath of WWII for being set in Central Europe just makes no sense at
all. Where would you have set it otherwise (realistically). To object to
the real world politics that lead to US forces being stationed in Europe
is one thing, but to castigate a game and it's designers for expanding
on that real world situation is ludicrous. It was hardly as if the game
was promoting a political philosophy of "Hey! Nuclear war isn't so bad,
after all it's only the dumb Europeans that'll be glowing". Of course,
if someone thinks (or thought at the time) that *was* the philosophy of
the game, then that says more for that persons inability to seperate
fantasy from reality than any real understanding of the game or it's
authors.
</BLOCKQUOTE>
The possible other thing to remember is that the West, in particular the
European countries (from the American viewpoint) weren't willing to maintain
the necessary forces to deal with the Russian numerical advantage (thus
possibly obligating the possible use of TacNucs).
There were 2 good books written by a former British chief of Nato (Haig?),
that cover the battle scenario and some of the polirical ramifications behind
what happened.
Bryan
- --part1_60.8f33f12.274c04ea_boundary--
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:12:40 -0800
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: cybernetics
> >>"Bionic man" type *strength* enhancements are flat out impossible. For
> >>two reasons. First, living bone is a *lot* stronger than steel. Or any
> >>"bio-inert" alloy yet found. Thats's because bone is a *composite*
Only stronger per unit of mass, i.e. a bone is stonger than a piece of steel
of the same weight. Change that to the same volume and results are quite
different.
> True, but don't forget that structure is not the only function
> of some bones. Red blood cells (RBCs) only last about
> 120 days in humans (IIRC), and must be constantly
> replaced. In an adult human, new RBCs are produced in
> certain bones (upper leg bones, pelvic bones, sternum,
> and skull, IIRC). Replacing bones with synthetic materials
> will necessitate some alternative RBC-producing system.
Only if you do a massive replacement. I'm sure Robert will correct me, but
the RE (Recticuloendothelial) system is well spread out and also includes
the spleen IIRC
>
> On the subject of blood, keep in mind that a human body
> is an integrated machine, not merely a collection of
> systems. There are a number of consequences of
> replacement of (e.g.) the legs: more difficulty in
> maintaining body temperature, more prone to shock
> due to lower total blood volume, hormone problems for
> the same reason, higher sensitivity to drugs due to
> lower total biomass, etc.
But the body has wonderful compensation systems. If that weren't the case,
the prospect for surviving a double (leg) amputation will be grim. Also,
one could argue the susceptability to shock increasing. I'd be interested
to hear from our resident medico.
> One should be careful about using the "extra" capacity of
> bones. We are "overdesigned" for a reason. Although
> our muscles do not routinely pull as haed as our bones
> can take, under extreme effort our muscles can break
> bones (to say nothing of tendons and ligaments). Our
> muscles are actually incredably strong. As an exersize,
> try calculating the force that a bicep must generate for
> someone to lift 25 kg with their hand while their lower
> arm is horizontal.
This is a good point. Biomods that increase ability will have to be done
with careful consideration to colateral systems. Strengtheneing bones my be
a non-issue (we already replace joints with titanium alloy analogs), but
improving muscle could be disaterous if the underlying skeletal system can't
support the load.
Tod
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3310
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3311
Date: | 11/21/00 10:50:01 AM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, November 21 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3311
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Lasers
RE: to satsify my curiosity
Re: to satisfy my curiosity
Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
Re: Nuclear War
RE: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
Re: RE:Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
Re: to satsify my curiosity
Near-C Rocks Yet again
Re: to satsify my curiosity
Re: Pulsars
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
The future is now!
Re: Pulsars
Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
Re: The future is now!
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:11:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Lasers
Leonard Erickson writes:
> It's a bit different when it's the *armor* that's doing the explosion. :-)
Not if you have armor designed not to transmit shockwaves -- say, laminate
armors. The effect is similar to a HESH warhead, and there are a variety of
defenses against that, some of which are very simple.
>
> Also, if you get up to X-ray lasers, then a substantial portion of the
> energy will pentrates anywhere from a few mm to a fair number of *cm*
> before being absorbed. Armor *really* doesn't like it when the
> explosion is several cm into a plate that's less than a meter thick. :-)
Hm...I don't think any of the traveller lasers I've seen proposed are in the
megavolt range -- go with millimeters. In any case, the area with the
greatest heating will still be the surface, until you get into fairly high
powered particle beams with cascade radiation you don't run into cases where
energy absorbtion is greater beneath the surface than on the surface.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 14:06:00 -0000
From: Matt Bond <MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RE: to satsify my curiosity
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Myers [mailto:robm@h2g2.com]
>
> Matt Bond wrote:
>
> > Just where do you think a land based invasion of the US was going to
> > come from?
>
> Canada or Mexico. :-)
> I don't know. Where did "Red Dawn", "Price of Freedom" and "Amerika"
> have it coming from?
Well apparently the USSR was seriously considering an unsupported
Airborne Invasion of Mid-West America in the mid-80's. Didn't you know?
> > I note from the rest of your email (that I have snipped for brevity)
> > that you go on to say that the game wasn't as bad and
> gung-ho as you or
> > others feared,
>
> Yes, I came to praise T2K, not to bury it (despite
> "Bangcock:Cesspool of
> the Orient", which I will now shut up about). My point is that the
> context it was received in is important to understand how it was
> regarded at the time.
>
> > but anyone to deride an American written game about the
> > aftermath of WWIII for being set in Central Europe just
> makes no sense at
> > all. Where would you have set it otherwise (realistically).
>
> America or the Eastern Bloc.
Remind me again where Poland is (or was at the time).
>The scenario was regarded as
> believable by
> the culture that produced it, that is the thing that shocked
> Europeans.
Well a conventional war in Europe with nuclear escalation is far more
likely to bring about WWIII, than say, Bolivia and Peru having a set-to.
As it happens (IIRC) the background has the war starting in the East,
with Sino-Soviet conflict, leading to West Germany forcibly reunifying
East Germany while the Soviet Union is distracted, which leads to war in
Europe, which escalates. It wasn't exactly "Evil Ivan runs roughshod
over Europe until the Gallant Americans come along to save Europe's butt
(again)"
> I know it wasn't regarded as likely, possible, realistic or ideal. But
> it wasn't a world ruled by giant intelligent mung beans. The
> Eurotheatre
> makes perfect sense on a diet of domino theory, but European
> visions of
> WWIII tended to be a bit shorter than the American ones. Usually about
> 15 minutes, in fact.
Yeah, but the war that escalates to WWIII won't have been started with
that aim in mind. There will be a small conventional war, both sides
reinforce, each expects the other to back down, as "they can't possibly
think they can win this without resorting to nukes, and no-one is that
mad". Someone *will* be 'that mad'...
In any case, a tad more than 'All is alright with the world'... 15
minutes... 'BOOOOOOOMMMMM!!!!'
> > Of course,
> > if someone thinks (or thought at the time) that *was* the
> philosophy of
> > the game, then that says more for that persons inability to seperate
> > fantasy from reality than any real understanding of the game or it's
> > authors.
>
> Absolutely. GDW were the same people who gave use Space:1889
> and 2300AD,
> both games with a very European perspective.
Hurrah! Jolly hockeysticks!
> > I'm not having a go at anyone in particular (at least that isn't my
> > intention), but I've always preferred to judge a game system on it's
> > playability, rather on whether it's premise is Politically Correct.
>
> Did you ever see the RPG "Reich Star"? :-)
Nope, any good? :-P
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 12:27:20 -0500
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: to satisfy my curiosity
>Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 06:53:11
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
>Subject: Re: to satisfy my curiosity
>
>I think that the scenarios provided (2nd Ed. updated it a little) were
>fairly realistic. And as a vet, I found very little to complain about with
>their presentation of the military, even a broken down one.
Agreed. The main reason I never played T2K was that it was too much like work.
Christopher B. Thrash
Major, Cavalry
Plans Officer
2d Armored Cavalry Regiment (-)(-)(-)
[location deleted by censor], FRG
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 10:32:00 -0700
From: bruce johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> At 02:56 PM 11/21/2000 -0000, you wrote:
ARRRRGGGHHH!!! <dribble> Keyboard kill, Doug!
> GURPS Viking Illuminati: fjord.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:35:03 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Nuclear War
>From: Kagehira@aol.com
>Subject: Re: Nuclear War
...
>The possible other thing to remember is that the West, in particular the
>European countries (from the American viewpoint) weren't willing to maintain
>the necessary forces to deal with the Russian numerical advantage (thus
>possibly obligating the possible use of TacNucs).
>
>There were 2 good books written by a former British chief of Nato (Haig?),
>that cover the battle scenario and some of the polirical ramifications behind
>what happened.
Hackett, et al.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 17:36:17 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
<snip Dougs list.> Brilliant! I'm filling in a P.O. for a new keyboard now.
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 11:41:30 -0500
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: RE:Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
>Shi is #4 in Japanese. This is a bad thing to have in your name. It also
means "Death" when written with a different character.<
Remember that for your Martial Arts campaigns too.
Yondan and Nanadan instead of Shidan and Shichidan.
(Took me years before someone who actually spoke the language could explain
that to me. And I won't go into Geri-waza vs. Keri-waza.)
Sam
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 10:51:40 -0700
From: bruce johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: to satsify my curiosity
Cheng Tseng wrote:
>> But, as always, the generals were planning for the _last_ war.
>
>
> I sense an old line of argument on the military coming up.
Old doesn't mean invalid. I believe Sun Tzu has some commentary on the
folly of preparing for the past.
>
>> Hitler showed them the Maginot line wouldn't work, so they planned for a
>> Blitzkrieg without warning by the Soviets.
>
>
> So? Would you prefer they had not, and then the Soviets decide to show them
> the Red Army really could?
>
> Not planning for worst-case scenarios because it appears impossible is a
> *really* bad idea. After all, Sir John Nott envisioned the Royal Navy only
> having to fight in the North Atlantic with US carrier groups and the RAF in
> close support.
_Only_ planning for worst-case scenarios is just as bad. We ended up
with a 1000 ship navy heavily invested in capital ships, and a military
structure designed almost exclusively to fight long, protracted wars
against conventional opponents of equal or greater strength.
Problem is, that really hasn't been true since WWII. Korea was a primer
on how that wans't the case, Vietnam the graduate course. The struggles
the US military has today preparing for, even defining their mission is
an example.
And no straw men about 'oh, but that's the politician's problem'; the
military has _always_ been the subsidiary of the politics.
The move today to alter the armor mix of the Army towards smaller,
lighter, but less well armed and armored vehicles would have been
unheard of during the 80's.
> Who would have thought that not more then two decades
> afterwards, the RN would have to fight a war 3000+ miles from home and
> definitely without air support?
I suppose you're speaking of the Falklands War? In that case the RN was
_hardly_ fighting without air support (they had their carriers with
them), and they were fighting an opponent without naval forces that
could stand up to them. That the Argentines managed a ship kill was less
a tribute to their strengths than to the unanticipated side effects of
the post WWII world, where the sale of state-of-the-art armaments became
a significant source of revenue for the industrialized First World. The
RN hadn't prepared for an allies' missile (the French Exocet) being
fired at them.
>
>> How the Soviets were expected to move that many armored divisions into
>> attack readiness without _someone_ noticing is beyond me.
>
>
> Crap happens. Ask the Israelis about the Yom Kippur War sometimes.
Israel did not have access to the intel assets that NATO did.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 18:06:21 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: Near-C Rocks Yet again
JUst saw a rather neat description of kinetic-kill weaponry on this sci-fi
comic:
http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20001105.html
Seems to be a little Silly Era, check it out.
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 18:14:34 +0000
From: Rob Myers <robm@h2g2.com>
Subject: Re: to satsify my curiosity
Matt Bond wrote:
> Well apparently the USSR was seriously considering an unsupported
> Airborne Invasion of Mid-West America in the mid-80's. Didn't you know?
It's a plan. :-)
> Remind me again where Poland is (or was at the time).
Yes, but it wasn't very far in, though. I got thrown by the mention of
"Central Europe".
> Well a conventional war in Europe with nuclear escalation is far more
> likely to bring about WWIII, than say, Bolivia and Peru having a set-to.
Aside from Nixon ordering a strike, the scenarios that came closest
involved computer error and the moon, or geese.
> Hurrah! Jolly hockeysticks!
Rather! Lashings of ginger beer!
> > Did you ever see the RPG "Reich Star"? :-)
>
> Nope, any good? :-P
Mere words cannot do it justice. :-)
- - Rob.
- --
Rob Myers - http://www.robmyers.org/ H2G2 - http://www.h2g2.com/
MacOS wonderfulness for The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy Game.
"Smash Global Capitalism! Spend less money!"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 19:16:49 +0100
From: "Patrik Holmström" <glappkaeft@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pulsars
>I wonder if ships in the 3I are hardened enough to approach a system >with
>a pulsar star? Are the belters crazy enough... :)
Would a planet give enough protection from the pulsar (thay should give
better protection since thay are dense)? If you knew the pulsar _beamie
thing_ wouldn't sweep the planet for some timeframe?
Patrik
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:36:56 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
In mail you write:
> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>>
>> Think "CB" and "ham radio". Also, *now* with all the buried fiber optic
>> lines belonging to a *dozen* or more long distance companies, it'd be
>> *real* hard to take out the long distance phone system.
>
> Hm. Well, cable without switches isn't much use and last time I checked,
> most teleco switches were still above ground in farily easy-to-nuke
> buildings. Plus there's still practically no all-optical switching
> in production use, so EMP will pretty much scramble the network, even
> though the transport isn't directly effected.
But it's a *lot* easier to replce the switches, even if it's only with
kludges that can only carry a few channels at first, than it is to
replace the network cabling!
> There was a great example of some failure mode analysis in this month's
> IEEE Spectrum, talking about the International Space Station... like
> the new higher-voltage power distribution system that unintentionally
> interacts with charges picked up from the ionosphere, causing major arcing
> along the surface of the modules. Woo hoo.
The power system is a bad joke anyway. In the name of "saving weight"
they saved maybe 1% at the cost of requiring *every* power using item
to be custom built (they went with a power system using ?? kHz instead
of the standard "aircraft" 400 Hz).
It's likely that what is saved on launch costs due to the lower weight
of transformers will be greatly exceeded by development and procurement
costs. :-(
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:42:18 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
In mail you write:
> On Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 07:55:17PM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>>> Sure, potatoes will be a lot more expensive if you're shipping
>>> them 10 parsecs, but why isn't there 100 times more trade between
>>> planets in neighbouring systems than depicted?
>
>> Well for one thing, systems are going to be more
>> self-sufficient. And the Imperium is arguably less into "progress
>> for progress's sake".
>
> I'm not so sure that systems will be more self-sufficient. Certainly
> there seem to be a lot of systems that are mineral-poor, or have bad
> atmospheres, or the wrong temperature. I agree that self-sufficiency
> would be desirable from a political point of view, although I think
> being part of a large Imperium would reduce the insularity rather than
> increasing it.
>
> I was just thinking from the point of view of commerce. Say widgets
> get mass-produced on Widgetworld for 500 Cr each, and you can pack 100
> of them into a 1-dton shipping container. Even allowing for various
> overheads as well as the amount the trader gets paid, that's probably
> only 2-5% markup due to shipping. Add 20000 Cr/ton import duty. If
> your competitors are making do with local materials and expertise to
> build widgets for 1000 Cr each, you'll still have a very big
> advantage.
If they have to "make do" that one thing. But, as a real world example,
in a lot of places it took a long time to get farmers to switch from
horses/mules to tractors. And in Asia, water buffalo *still* win out.
>> So if a planet has locally produced stuff that works ok, any import
>> will have to be a *lot* better as well as cheaper. And they will
>> likewly consider things like the cost of parts (and techs!) for
>> repairs.
>
> OK -- is it better to need a small import of spare parts, or to build
> a widget factory and import lots of raw materials? To have a few
> trained technicians for repairs, or thousands of them to deal with
> widget design, development, and production?
Depends on the *rest* of the situation. On a low pop world, probably
not. On a high pop world, it provides more jobs!
>> Interworld trade is apt to be restricted to raw materials, luxury
>> goods, and things that are "needed" but can't be produced cheaply
>> locally.
>
> I'm just wondering what happens to the things that can be produced
> locally, but not as cheaply. That accounts for basically all trade on
> Earth, and I can't see any overriding reason to expect it to change in
> the Traveller universe.
But did it account for all trade a couple centuries back? Because trade
in Traveller *doesn't* resemble trade on Earth since about the mid
1800s. The travel times *and* communication times make a big difference.
> This is not just a theoretical argument -- my character is the
> director of a shipping corporation in a game focussed on trading. If
> there is something stopping him from exploiting what appears to be a
> truly massive undersupply of shipping, I'd better know what it is.
Well, that's between you and your GM.
>> Remember, the fact that it'll take *weeks* to get an offworld part
>> that isn't on hand
>
> So you make sure that it is on hand. That's what warehouses are for,
> and why you keep stuff in them. It's not like I'm talking about a
> 100-person colony here -- I'm talking about the planets with hundreds
> of millions to billions of people. There will be a rather steady need
> for spare parts.
Any planet *that* big will need so many (and likely be looking for ways
to keep all those folks busy) that they are apt to go for local
production.
>> (up to a week waiting for a ship to arrive,
>
> This confirms my suspicion that you're thinking of 100-person
> outposts. Even with current Traveller trade volumes, there would have
> to be hundreds to thousands of ships per day carrying cargo to nearby
> systems. If you can't find one with any spare room -- well, you've
> just created a demand for more shipping!
Sorry, but you are *assuming* the point you are trying to *prove*.
*Why* would there be that many ships? And keep in mind that the
Traveller equivalent of an oil tanker or ore freighter isn't going to
be carrying incidental cargo.
> If you're distributing widgets to a planet of a billion people, you'll
> know at least a month ahead of time when you need to restock your
> warehouses. Even if you're slapdash about it, you should have plenty
> of time to find some space on a ship.
> These are not unique problems to space travel. They occur in the real
> world, and they have tried and true solutions.
Yes, and the ones you are thinking of are based on *fast*
communication, as well as fast travel. When both are the same
(relatively slow) speed, things are more apt to tilt towards local
production.
And while you say I'm thinking of small outposrs, you appear to be
thinking of the *rare* hi-pop worlds.
Remember, the most common (*not* "average"!) population is 5. That's
100-900 *thousand*.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:54:53 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
In mail you write:
>>>On the other hand, most M-class dwarfs are also flare stars. Anything
>>>close enough to be in the life zone isn't likely to support life for that
>>>reason.
>>
>>Well, it's also possible (though not likely) that the lifeforms *use*
>>the flare energy to make compounds which they live off of between
>>flares.
>
> If it were just normal light, I'd agree with you. But flare star flares pump
> out *a lot* of x-rays. There's energy and then there's way too much energy,
> know what I mean? It's difficult to picture a biosphere that eats regular
> doses of ionizing radiation like candy, not without some serious scientific
> handwaving anyway.
Filter it thru a bit of rock, or lots of water, and you just "harvest"
the chemicals created by the energy flux. :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:56:07 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
In mail you write:
>>Keep in mind that life evolved on Terra long before there was an ozone
>>layer. Of course, there would be much high levels of UV radiation
>>near some other stars, but life could happily evolve deep down in the
>>oceans or even under the ground. After that, well, natural selection
>>is a powerful process.
>
> But also a long one. Useful multicellularity took a long time to arise on
> Earth, something like 3.0-3.5 billion years.
However, this seems to be because the Earth kept freezing over (worse
than an ice age. *Oceanic* ice clear to the equator!
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 10:11:33 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
In mail you write:
> On Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 08:55:11PM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> In mail you write:
>>
>>> I would have expected it to happen soon after the star ignited,
>>> driving excess volatiles (e.g. hydrogen) outward until they either
>>> escape or get captured by a protoplanet big enough to hold them. But
>>> then, I am not a professional in the field, merely an interested
>>> observer.
>>
>> The problem is that *during* formation the planetismals falling into
>> the protoplanet will have compositions not all that different from
>> comets.
>
> I think I have got something seriously wrong then. I had thought that
> the time scales of planetary formation were greater than the timescale
> given by the equilibrium reactions between NH3/N2+H2, H2O/H2+O2,
> CH4/C+H2 (I didn't even know this one existed. Does it really involve
> elemental carbon, or is it a shorthand for a more complex
> equilibrium?)
It may actually be CH4 + 2 O2 -> CO2 + 2 H2O combined with the
breakdown of the H2O. And there is likely to be a fair amount of
oxidation of ammonia going on as well.
> I had also thought that the rate was primarily dictated by the rate of
> hydrogen escape, rather than the UV input. Maybe theories have
> changed, or I didn't understand them well enough in the first place.
I could be off a bit as well, I just remember that they figure on
methane and ammonia being around while the planet is cool enough to
have liquid water on the surface in most of the "origin of life" debates.
As for the importance of UV, keep in mind that the liberated hydrogen
will tend to stay in the upper atmosphere, and that oxygen will react
with methane and ammonia a *lot* faster than hydrogen will react with
nitrogen or carbon/CO2.
So even if the hydrogen accumulates, that just means that you lose less
water (as some of the oxygen would react with hydrogen) but still lose
ammonia and methane.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 19:23:22 +0100
From: "Patrik Holmström" <glappkaeft@hotmail.com>
Subject: The future is now!
Holographic displays are TL13 in FFS2.
Look what I found at:
http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,40264,00.html
>Perhaps the most exciting technology at Comdex this year was a 3D
>display that projected volumetric images into thin air. At the back of
>one of the exhibit halls, Dimensional Media set up a booth full of 3D
>displays that projected images -- of objects such as cell phones or
>soda cans -- into space in front of the viewer. Unlike most other 3D
>displays, Dimensional Media's does not require special glasses or any
>kind of headgear.
Patrik
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 10:34:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Pulsars
Patrik Holmström writes:
> >I wonder if ships in the 3I are hardened enough to approach a system >with
> > a pulsar star? Are the belters crazy enough... :)
>
> Would a planet give enough protection from the pulsar (thay should give
> better protection since thay are dense)? If you knew the pulsar _beamie
> thing_ wouldn't sweep the planet for some timeframe?
Assuming the planet doesn't have a magnetic field, that's plenty of shielding,
whether or not the pulse sweeps over the planet. However, it isn't entirely
obvious why you want to do this.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:38:44 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
>>If it were just normal light, I'd agree with you. But flare star flares
>>pump out *a lot* of x-rays. There's energy and then there's way too much
>>energy, know what I mean? It's difficult to picture a biosphere that eats
>>regular doses of ionizing radiation like candy, not without some serious
>>scientific handwaving anyway.
>
>Filter it thru a bit of rock, or lots of water, and you just "harvest"
>the chemicals created by the energy flux. :-)
Mmmmm...maybe...I'd want to see how long the water would last under all that
ultraviolet and x-rays before signing off on this possibility. "The
chemicals created" from water are hydrogen and oxygen, and we all know how
hydrogen leaks into space over fairly short periods of time.
I would guess (without doing any math) that any water vapour of a planet
under a flare stare would be broken down into its component atoms, with the
hydrogen going away and the oxygen getting bound to rocks as various oxides.
The oceans would gradually be sucked dry.
Once the water's all gone, I don't *care* if you can start using a bit of
rock as a filter instead. At that point, all the little critters have bigger
problems than dealing with excess UV.
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 12:41:44 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: The future is now!
I would say that it's a safe bet that within five years, the GURPS Tech
Level system is going to need a major revision.
- -J. Jensen
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 10:46:36 -0800
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Tried to send this yesterday, but the mail system was down:
>From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
>Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
>
>On Sun, 19 Nov 2000, James Jensen wrote:
>
>> Recently I've been reading "Alas, Babylon", by Pat Frank.
>>
>> So, I was wondering: how large an area does an average thermonuclear
warhead
>> irradiate, and what would it be like to live in an area just outside (by
>> five-ten miles) of a blast. And _is it_ possible to survive nuclear war?
<snip>
>
>Is it possible to survive thermonuclear war? Yes, humans have survived
>some amazingly nasty stuff. Would it be fun? Not on your life. Would it be
>like 'Alas Babylon'? Not even.
Here is a little historical tidbit to calibrate your perceptions.
All the cheetahs alive today are almost genetically identical - almost close
enough to be brother and sister. The theory is that sometime in the
not-too-distant past, something bad happened that wiped out most of the
cheetah population, leaving only a few survivors. The estimates are as low
as 7 to 9 individuals, perhaps one pregnant female and her litter. Before
us naughty humans started mucking things up further, cheetahs came back and
were spread from Africa to India. While the lack of genetic diversity is
troubling to researchers and conservationists, it is at the same time an
amazing story of success.
Rod Basler, COFIT
- --------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer - Don't blame them, OK?
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3311
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3312
Date: | 11/21/00 1:16:49 PM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, November 21 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3312
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
RE: The future is now!
Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
RE: New PICTURE - Med Scanner -
Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
Re: The future is now!
Re: Radio Free Mongo Report!
Re: Laser hazards
Re: The future is now!
More Space Weather: Gas Giant Skimming
Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
Re: to satsify my curiosity
Re: The future is now!
Re: Info on tethers and other "alternative tech"
Re: Meson Communications
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3306
Re: Lasers
Re: Meson Communications
Re : cybernetics (medicine in the OTU, longish)
Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 18:50:52 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: The future is now!
Sean Punch alreay published a revision in Pyramid :)
Dean
> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Jensen [mailto:cheeb0@hotmail.com]
> Sent: 21 November 2000 18:42
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: The future is now!
>
>
> I would say that it's a safe bet that within five years, the
> GURPS Tech
> Level system is going to need a major revision.
>
> -J. Jensen
> ______________________________________________________________
> _______________________
> Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 19:53:24 +0100
From: Tyge =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sj=F6strand?= <tyge.sjostrand@pi.se>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
At 10:11 2000-11-21 -0800, you wrote:
>I could be off a bit as well, I just remember that they figure on
>methane and ammonia being around while the planet is cool enough to
>have liquid water on the surface in most of the "origin of life" debates.
That is the old view from the 1950's. Urey and Miller, the famous experiments.
But today, more than four decades later, many scientists seem to think that
Earth's early atmosphere was not rich in methane and ammonia, it was
dominated by carbon dioxide and nitrogen from the start, from the abundant
volcanism. Not that the old view is dead, but it is contested.
So the question about how long it did take to change ammonia/methane into
nitrogen/carbon dioxide may not be very relevant. Maybe there was no change.
/Tyge
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 10:58:53 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: New PICTURE - Med Scanner -
Very nice as usual Mike!
Best,
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Mike Linsenmayer
> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2000 6:20 PM
> To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com
> Subject: New PICTURE - Med Scanner -
>
>
> When I was up in the Ling Standards regional director's office on
> Regina, I
> saw one of their older Tech 12 Medscanner sitting on the table. So I
> snapped a Pic of that to.
>
> ----------- This is the Med Scanner from Grand Survey
>
> http://www.bigbailey.com/vspace/art/picture-l.htm
>
> -Mike
>
> ----------------------------------------------
> Mike Linsenmayer
> Enterprise Technologies Lab Manager
> mlinsenmayer@symantec.com
> ----------------------------------------------
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 14:00:23 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
>However, this seems to be because the Earth kept freezing over (worse
>than an ice age. *Oceanic* ice clear to the equator!
Even the proponents of the Snowball Earth think the big ice ages only
started about 800 million years ago. We're still talking a couple of billion
ice-free years between the first primitive life and the first multicellular
organisms, and even a billion between the first eukaryotes and the Sno-Cone
Party Central.
(In fact, I've even seen arguments to the effect that the freezing *helped*,
by isolating genetic communities and forcing rapid adaptation.)
It still seems as if the jump from basic life to lions and tigers and bears
is a hard one, and one that takes time.
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:01:51 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: The future is now!
I don't subscribe to Pyramid. Could you summarize the changes? (If you're
worried about copyright infringement, please email off-list. Thanks.)
- -J. Jensen
Original Message:
> Sean Punch alreay published a revision in Pyramid :)
>
> Dean
>
> > I would say that it's a safe bet that within five years, the
> > GURPS Tech
> > Level system is going to need a major revision.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 11:13:13 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Radio Free Mongo Report!
>From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
>No more suicidal than facing a platoon of grav tanks armed with plasma
guns.
>In any case, any member of the Mongo Secret Police would gladly sacrifice
>his life to protect Ming against the relentless rampaging rabid rebel
>rabble.
Suicide to shoot, suicide not to shoot. Such sacrifice seems somehow sad.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 11:24:31 -0800
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com>
Subject: Re: Laser hazards
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Subject: Re: Laser hazards
>
>In mail you write:
>
<snip>
>> Unfortunately, this wavelength is
>> also absorbed by plastics and many other materials, which has led to some
>> messy accidents.
>
>Sounds like they need to work on safety protocols a bit more. :-)
They are, and the suggestions are getting pretty elaborate, using
surgical drapes that are wetted down with water, for example.
>I'd *seriously* consider use of the older *metal* airway tubes, if it's
>possible to find a bio-safe non-reflective coating.
>
Well, the tubes they normally use are made of PVC, which is usually
quite flammable (I used to do flammability tests on the stuff) and generates
toxic fumes as it burns. Fun. It is possible to add certain chemicals
(Bromine, for example) to make it flameproof, or at least flame resistant.
Unfortunately, this ups the price of an airway tube from $2 to between 50
and 100 dollars. Hey, if it were my surgery, I'd pay the difference, but
you know the (un)friendly neighborhood (mis)managed care facility is going
to start looking at the percentage accidents vs the added cost of the airway
tubes.
>BTW, did the patient survive the blowtorch?
No, she didn't. If it were me, I don't think I'd even want to be
brought out of the anaesthetic.
Rod Basler, COFIT
- ------------------------------------------
Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 20:26:07 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: The future is now!
"Patrik Holmström" wrote:
> Look what I found at:
> http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,40264,00.html
This might be _the_ coolest piece of news I've had in a long, long
time...
I want one of these! Right here in my home! With a program to project 3D
images generated by some kind of program.
"The scanner shows the assaulting Corsair..."
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:23:42 -0600
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <dasmart@avaya.com>
Subject: More Space Weather: Gas Giant Skimming
Recently, NASA released an image from the Galileo spacecraft
of the first discrete ammonia ice cloud positively identified
on Jupiter.
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/pictures/jupiter/
It's big..very, *very* big.
Not something any frontier-refueling ship wants to mess with.
ObTrav
- ------
"Lieutenant Gashuuga, secure the ship for fuel-skimming.
Although our sensor resolution will be reduced, I want
you to maximize our atmospheric speed to complete refueling
quickly. You have the bridge; I'll be in my cabin."
-- Final logged order of Cpt. Eneri Derunii
Commanding Officer, Imperial destroyer HMS Titanic
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 20:34:33 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
> GURPS Ice Age/Atomic Horror: fire, the wheel, writing, and other things man
> was not meant to know.
Easily a possible crossover if you reverse the order of events. Ever
heard of nuclear winter? With atomic ants? =)
> GURPS Viking Illuminati: fjord.
LOL
ROTFLMAO
*sound of choking*
...
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 14:35:45 -0500
From: howard.anderson@psu.edu (Cheng Tseng)
Subject: Re: to satsify my curiosity
>Cheng Tseng wrote:
>
>>> But, as always, the generals were planning for the _last_ war.
>>
>>
>> I sense an old line of argument on the military coming up.
>
>Old doesn't mean invalid. I believe Sun Tzu has some commentary on the
>folly of preparing for the past.
And "old" does not mean it IS valid.
Let's face it - the history of prognostication on what the next great way of
making war is, to put it mildly, mixed. Douhet and Billy Mitchell, anybody?
How about "no more need for guns on warships"? "Missiles will make manned
aircraft obsolete"?
>> So? Would you prefer they had not, and then the Soviets decide to show them
>> the Red Army really could?
>>
>> Not planning for worst-case scenarios because it appears impossible is a
>> *really* bad idea. After all, Sir John Nott envisioned the Royal Navy only
>> having to fight in the North Atlantic with US carrier groups and the RAF in
>> close support.
>
>_Only_ planning for worst-case scenarios is just as bad. We ended up
>with a 1000 ship navy heavily invested in capital ships, and a military
"Heavily in capital ships"? Define your definition please. After all, the
US has only launched, or is planning to launch, less then two dozen carriers
since the end of WW2, as oppose to all those escorts, destroyers, frigates,
and cruisers.
>structure designed almost exclusively to fight long, protracted wars
>against conventional opponents of equal or greater strength.
Protracted war? The US Navy certainly wasn't very diligent about that, what
with ONE class of warships in the last thirty years designed for
quick-construction during a conflict.
>Problem is, that really hasn't been true since WWII. Korea was a primer
>on how that wans't the case, Vietnam the graduate course. The struggles
>the US military has today preparing for, even defining their mission is
>an example.
Let's see...in Korea we faced million men armies employing human wave
attacks that could have been out of World War One. Of course, the PLA and
DPRKA found-out that human wave attacks don't work for long when you run
into American-style firepower.
Vietnam was a counter-insurgency operation, that we botched, but very few
armies in the world regard their mission as conducting counter-insurgencies
in OTHER countries (Not that they regard that in their OWN countries.).
How about the Arab-Israeli conflicts, which indicated that the pace and
ferocity of war has quickened? That indicates you better have a large force
count, and large stockpiles of supplies to fight the war, because the
conflict is not going to last long enough for your manufacture replacements?
>
>And no straw men about 'oh, but that's the politician's problem'; the
>military has _always_ been the subsidiary of the politics.
And the fact that politicians are usually the ones who forced the military
into bad decisions is ignored? Robert McNamara provides an example.
>The move today to alter the armor mix of the Army towards smaller,
>lighter, but less well armed and armored vehicles would have been
>unheard of during the 80's.
And you notice that quite a number of people have problems with it. You
notice that the Army is building them to supplant heavy forces, for missions
like peace-keeping. And you notice that they want a lighter vehicle in the
future that will be as well-armored as the tanks today (A delusion, perhaps,
but that's the goal.)
Even the Army Chief of Staff, detestable as some of his decisions have been,
has been careful about what he intends.
>
> > Who would have thought that not more then two decades
> > afterwards, the RN would have to fight a war 3000+ miles from home and
> > definitely without air support?
>
>I suppose you're speaking of the Falklands War? In that case the RN was
>_hardly_ fighting without air support (they had their carriers with
TWO carriers, with just Harriers and Sea Kings. Can you image how much the
mission would have been easier if they had Phantoms and Buccaneers flying
off real carriers? Or if INVINCIBLE _had_ been sold to the Australians, how
would have they pulled-off Corporate?
One of the rationale for getting rid of the big carriers was because the RAF
said they would always be able to provide air cover and support for the RN,
and if not, that was what the US carriers were for. Well, the best located
facility for the RAF in the Falklands was...Port Stanley. The next was
Ascension Island, a looonnng distance away. Too long, as it turned-out, to
support the Corporate with any real airpower.
>them), and they were fighting an opponent without naval forces that
>could stand up to them. That the Argentines managed a ship kill was less
Wouldn't, and probably couldn't for the Belgrano, but the Argentines were
seriously considering an engagement for quite a while.
>a tribute to their strengths than to the unanticipated side effects of
>the post WWII world, where the sale of state-of-the-art armaments became
>a significant source of revenue for the industrialized First World. The
>RN hadn't prepared for an allies' missile (the French Exocet) being
>fired at them.
Huh? The Exocet hits indicated the trade-offs the RN had to make to satisfy
various demands more then anything else. And experience counts too.
Just imagine how close the Super Etendards carrying the Exocets would have
gotten, had the British had some AEW in the air. And the sale of weapons
work *both* ways. Ask the Argentines how happy they were when the French
declared an embargo on them.
>
>>
>>> How the Soviets were expected to move that many armored divisions into
>>> attack readiness without _someone_ noticing is beyond me.
>>
>>
>> Crap happens. Ask the Israelis about the Yom Kippur War sometimes.
>
>Israel did not have access to the intel assets that NATO did.
Israel had intelligence that indicated the Syrians and Egyptians WERE
massing their forces close to Israeli positions. And they had it soon
enough so that they could have mobilized and poured enough reserves into the
frontlines to matter.
The fact that they did NOT, was an error of judgement. Admittingly, there
were some room for doubt, since the Syrians and Egyptians had mobilized at
least once before without launching attacks. So lack of intelligence does
not seem to have been a major factor.
C.T.
"Retiring student loans, one miserable cent at a time."
Cheng Tseng - Will econ forecast for food.
Search the Net and Make Some Cash:
http://www.catpile.com/index.shtml?refid=ctseng
http://www.searchcactus.com/member/welcome.asp?7024
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 11:36:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: The future is now!
James Jensen writes:
> I would say that it's a safe bet that within five years, the GURPS Tech
> Level system is going to need a major revision.
Probably, but not based on the 'holographic' devices being described. As far
as we were able to tell, its a cleverly marketed form of a mirror box
illusion which dates back to the 19th century and is about TL 5.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 10:20:22 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Info on tethers and other "alternative tech"
In mail you write:
> On Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 09:39:48PM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> > Still, how much would it cost to deploy and maintain a tether system
>> > capable of getting a 100-ton payload to a space station? (I should be
>> > able to work this one out for myself)
>>
>> Maintenance is *very* low. The cable is cheap, even the fancy
>> multistrand type (Hoytethers?)
>
> It's the support structures that I'm thinking of. Not just in the
> engineering sense, but the administration and logistic sense as well.
> It seems to be a tradeoff between a cheap and dumb system, and a more
> expensive system with much more flexibility.
There's more flexibility than you might think, as the tether can be
sped up and slowed down in various ways so as to both avoid "space
junk" and allow for some shifts in pickup times.
>> > I'm still not sure of that. Contragrav and thrusters are very cheap
>> > technology, and can go straight from ground to space without
>> > transferring massive payloads between objects moving at high speeds
>> > and accelerations in tight time windows.
>> >
>> > I'll do some numbers.
>>
>> The time windows aren't all *that* tight. Also the speeds are next to
>> *zero* at the transfer points.
>
> I noticed on the web site that the characteristic speeds for the
> strongest commercial materials is on the order of 4 km/s. I presume
> this would be sorted out by Traveller materials.
>
> The accelerations would be sort of horrible -- a tether spinning with
> 8 km/s tip speed with a radius of 1000 km would undergo 6G
> acceleration at the tip. For a 20 km tether (the length you mention),
> the tip acceleration would be 320G.
I think you've goofed somewhere. They are designing with a *2 g* max
acceleration criteria!
Remember, the "tip speed" is a combination of the rotational velocity
*and* the orbital velocity. And the tethers rotate "backwards" so as to
get the most time at the "low" end for pickup/release.
> Yes, the speeds are next to zero. You don't want to be transporting
> any live cargo though, or anything less tough than a homogeneous lump
> of metal. And if the upper-atmosphere cargo craft misses the
> rendezvous point by 1 metre the wrong way, it gets hit with a great
> big whip stronger than steel and moving at around 300 km/hr.
Again, you've got the figures *badly* wrong.
> Also, the range of orbits you can acquire seems rather limited. For
> example, I don't see how you would rendezvous your cargo with a space
> station for loading onto a starship, unless you have very sparse
> launch windows.
The space station may be at the hub of the tether. I know the Dr,
Forward covered doing it another way, but I don't recall exactly how.
> Of course, you could just have the starship run around catching
> cargoes that were flung in its general direction with variable speeds.
> The most expensive part of interstellar shipping is the starship, so
> it seems a little wasteful.
Or just fling them at a station at the 100 diameter limit. It catches
them, and transfers them to ships. As long as the inbound and outbound
masses balance, the setup is stable.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 10:28:40 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Meson Communications
In mail you write:
> On Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 09:37:54PM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> Black holes can ve *really* small. :-)
>
> But *really* small ones have very short lifetimes. The "millions of
> megatons" energy would be a black hole with a lifetime on the order of
> a second.
Hey, we're using time dilation *anyway*... :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 10:30:10 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3306
In mail you write:
> You are forgetting the obvious answer, which is explicit in the name:
> frequency modulation. All you have to do is vary how often you send the
> mesons, and you have an FM signal.
Nope. You've got pulse spacing modulation.
> So we have AM (amplitude modulation) created by varying the strength of the
> meson decay at the receiver, and FM (frequency modulation) created by
> varying the frequency with which you send the mesons, and polar (circular?)
> modulation, which I am not sure how to do with mesons. This third option
> (polar) is not much used in commercial broadcasting in our TTL7-8 technology
> (though it can be done fairly easily with radio).
Given the nature of mesons, *any* signal will have to be some sort of
pulse modulation. Since you can vary the particle energy, that gives
pulse amplitude modulation. Given that they are particles, pulse
*width* modulation is out. Which leaves pulse "spacing" as the only
other type of modulation available.
You might be able to get highher data rates by combining the two, but
that strikes me as kinda "iffy".
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 11:41:36 -0800
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com>
Subject: Re: Lasers
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Subject: Re: Lasers
>
>In mail you write:
>
>> Homework problem to clarify how lasers behave in Traveller:
>>
<snip>
>The transparency of air varies *greatly* with wavelength. The index of
>refraction isn't all that important once adaptive optics are developed.
>
>UV and X-rays aren't well suited to use in an atmosphere as the opacity
>of air at those wavelengths gets really bad, really fast.
>
>IR has some "windows" where it propogates better. But as I recall,
>visible light is pretty much the "best" wavelength range for passing
>thru an earthlike atmosphere.
Why do you think life on earth evolved to use those wavelengths for
vision? ;o)
Rod Basler, COFIT
- -----------------------------------------
Disclaimer - It's not their fault, OK?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 12:00:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Meson Communications
Leonard Erickson writes:
> In mail you write:
>
> > On Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 09:37:54PM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> >> Black holes can ve *really* small. :-)
> >
> > But *really* small ones have very short lifetimes. The "millions of
> > megatons" energy would be a black hole with a lifetime on the order of
> > a second.
>
> Hey, we're using time dilation *anyway*... :-)
Unfortunately, that doesn't work.
A 980 ton black hole moving at 0.2c lasts about a second and masses 1,000 T
A 100 ton black hole moving at 0.995c lasts about 1/1000 of a second without
time dilation, and about 1/100 of a second with time dilation. It masses
1,000T.
Basic effect is that at constant energy levels, you get the best range at
speeds too low for significant relativistic effects.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 08:03:29 +1100
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re : cybernetics (medicine in the OTU, longish)
<pop>
Summoned by Tod Glenn.
Ian Ferguson is correct.
Most red cell synthesis in adults occurs in the sternum, pelvis and
parts of the long bones (the marrow becomes infiltrated with fat as we
age). Other sites can be induced in certain pathological conditions (a
reversion to infancy, sorta) where the liver and spleen become active.
The primary functions of the spleen would appear to be as a blood (all
cells) reservoir (~150-200mL), a filter to remove senile red cells, and
a training ground for white cells, as well as another line of defense
against gut borne intruders ; the spleen is rich in tissue macrophages,
as is the liver.
Tod Glenn wrote :-
> If that weren't the case, the prospect for surviving a double (leg) amputation would be grim.
The survival rate for traumatic amputations is generally excellent ; as
with all trauma, survival depends largely on the severity of head injury
and (acutely) speed and appropriateness of resuscitation.
However, most amputations are carried out because of complications of
diabetic or atherosclerotic vascular disease. Survival post these
procedures is often poor, due to the lack of reserve of the subjects. A
good BOTE estimate is 50% survival at 12 months, <5% at five years for
*single limb* (above knee) amputations.
On other bits of the thread, the monkey work and the tissue culture
stuff is promising. The problem with the latter is that bladders are
essentially spheres with three cell layers - pretty uncomplicated
compared to hearts, lungs or livers!
I've always had a bit of a problem with cybergear/augmentation in
science fiction.
Simple structural considerations (e.g. load-bearing effects and size)
have been pointed out by many people on the list (and myself, in an
earlier rather telegraphic message).
Sensory augmentations (just about all except touch) necessitate radical
changes to the nervous system, and as John Snead has mentioned, may only
be possible to establish in infancy (or even in utero). There are big
philosophical and psychological problems associated with such
alterations to identity or capability, a stock theme in science fiction.
In the OTU, the cultural phobia of psionics may therefore extend into
areas of psychotherapy or highly invasive neurosurgery.
As for other organ augmentations, there are other functions of the
liver, gut, kidney, etc. that haven't been elucidated (e.g. the gut
releases potentially more transmitter substances than the CNS!).
Replacing them with artificial substitutes may be problematic.
Then there are issues relating to care delivery, infrastructure, etc.
(It all comes back to managers and money. Sigh.)
Resuming lurk mode.
Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 08:08:44 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
On Tue, Nov 21, 2000 at 08:24:51AM -0500, Paul Drye wrote:
> - The real problem is hard radiation. Oddly enough, M-class dwarfs
> produce flares that are more energetic than the ones sun-like stars
> do. Once you get outside of the visual wavelengths into the nasty
> stuff like ultraviolet and x-rays, the dwarfs go nuts. The flares of
> an M-class dwarf gives off thousands of times more x-rays than those
> of G-class stars.
I thought typical atmospheres were very opaque to X-rays?
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 08:12:51 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
On Tue, Nov 21, 2000 at 08:48:14AM -0500, John P. Raynor wrote:
>
> Furthermore, I vaguely recall reading that getting close enough to
> dim red dwarf stars to stay warm also means exposing your planet to
> rather severe tidal/gravitational forces.
Yes, the planet would almost certainly be tide-locked. This need not
be a problem, though. So long as the side facing the star is still
cool enough to hold water, the planet should be (theoretically) able
to support life.
- - Tim
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3312
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3313
Date: | 11/21/00 3:04:42 PM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, November 21 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3313
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
RE: cybernetics
Re: Lasers
re: Technology Marches On: The Six Million Dollar Monkey?
Re: to satsify my curiosity
[BITS] DRAGONMEET 2000 reminder
Re: Planetary mechanics questions
Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
Re: Worst games ever
Re: to satisfy my curiosity
Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
Trade volumes
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3310
Re: cybernetics (medicine in the OTU, longish)
Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
Re: to satsify my curiosity
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 08:16:31 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
On Tue, Nov 21, 2000 at 09:48:43AM -0500, Paul Drye wrote:
>
> But also a long one. Useful multicellularity took a long time to arise on
> Earth, something like 3.0-3.5 billion years.
Unfortunately we have really no idea why this length of time was
needed. Maybe under some conditions it takes 10^8 years and 10^11
under others.
> I mean, I like algae just fine, but it's not very interesting from a
> SFnal standpoint.
Yes, I suppose it would a little too much work to Uplift :^)
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 15:25:30 -0600
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <dasmart@avaya.com>
Subject: Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
>
> GURPS Vampire Aliens: Klaatu Carotid Nicked You
SPLOOOORT! coughcough
Will you look at my cubicle? Just look at it!
(I *hate* Dr. Pepper up the nose.)
Aw, crap! My pants!
> GURPS Viking Illuminati: fjord.
ROFLMOA! Oh, gawd, stop! Somebody *please* make him stop!
David
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 16:31:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: RE: cybernetics
Tod Glenn writes:
>>>>"Bionic man" type *strength* enhancements are flat out impossible. For
>>>>two reasons. First, living bone is a *lot* stronger than steel. Or any
>>>>"bio-inert" alloy yet found. Thats's because bone is a *composite*
>Only stronger per unit of mass, i.e. a bone is stonger than a piece of steel
>of the same weight. Change that to the same volume and results are quite
>different.
Excellent point.
>>True, but don't forget that structure is not the only function
>>of some bones. Red blood cells (RBCs) only last about
>>120 days in humans (IIRC), and must be constantly
>>replaced. In an adult human, new RBCs are produced in
>>certain bones (upper leg bones, pelvic bones, sternum,
>>and skull, IIRC). Replacing bones with synthetic materials
>>will necessitate some alternative RBC-producing system.
>Only if you do a massive replacement. I'm sure Robert will correct me, but
>the RE (Recticuloendothelial) system is well spread out and also includes
>the spleen IIRC
Only red bone marrow is capable of RBC production. In an adult
human, red bone marrow is found only in the sternum (breastbone),
vertebrae (backbone), ribs, base of the skull, and the upper ends of
the long limb bones. I don't have any figures on the relative
contribution of these bones, but it does seem as if a significant
number of bones would have to be removed before RBC production
is substantially reduced. Making someone "superhuman" by
doing such things as replacing bones with synthetic composite
materials might do the trick. BTW, the spleen stores RBCs for
later use and filters out damaged RBCs. Useless factoids: we
each have about 25 trillion RBCs, and replace about 2 million per
second.
>>On the subject of blood, keep in mind that a human body
>>is an integrated machine, not merely a collection of
>>systems. There are a number of consequences of
>>replacement of (e.g.) the legs: more difficulty in
>>maintaining body temperature, more prone to shock
>>due to lower total blood volume, hormone problems for
>>the same reason, higher sensitivity to drugs due to
>>lower total biomass, etc.
>But the body has wonderful compensation systems. If that weren't the case,
>the prospect for surviving a double (leg) amputation will be grim. Also,
>one could argue the susceptability to shock increasing. I'd be interested
>to hear from our resident medico.
<snipped>
Our bodies certainly do have considerable capacity for compensation,
but there are limits. One limit is the total amount of blood in our
system (about 5 liters in an adult). I don't know how much blood
typically is found in the limbs, but if it is 1 liter then you would
only
have 4 liters left. This might not be a problem since you no longer
have to supply the limbs with blood, but any given blood loss from
your 4 liters may have a greater effect than the same loss from a
"whole" person with 5 liters of blood to start with. As for
temperature regulation, the big muscles in your limbs can provide
a lot of heat for the body, and it would be difficult to maintain body
temperature under some conditions without them. Many hormones
would self-regulate, as they are usually controlled by concentrations
in the blood, but the regulation might not be as precise as normal.
Dr. Ian "Peez" Ferguson
Department of Biology
Concordia University
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 20:21:18 +0000
From: Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Lasers
At 20:29 -0500 20/11/00, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>For that matter, kinetic kill ordnance dropped from orbit will be
>rather visible as well. A Scientific American back in the 80s had a
>picture of some warheads re-entering over Kwajalien Atoll. The pictures
>was taken in *daylight* and the warheads were *very* visible as the
>bright white *lines* from the sky to the ground.
>
>That's a "minor" detail you never saw in any of the many stories about
>nuclear wars.
But Atari modelled it in their classic "Missile Command" ;-)
Dom
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 20:39:21 +0000
From: Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Technology Marches On: The Six Million Dollar Monkey?
At 12:10 -0500 21/11/00, "Smart, David J (David)" <dasmart@avaya.com> wrote:
>Researchers have wired the brains of monkeys to control
>robotic arms, a feat that could one day allow paralyzed
>people and amputees to move artificial arms and legs
>merely by thinking.
>
>The wires fed electrical impulses from the brains of two
>monkeys into a computer linked to robotic arms. When the
>monkeys reached for food or manipulated a joystick, the
>robotic arms mimicked those motions...
When I was at University back in '95 we had a guest lecturer in our
Digital Control (for Mechanical Engineers) module. He was a medical
research engineer from Oxford University's Teaching Hospital.
He was talking about prosthetic development and asked for a
volunteer. I stepped forward and he connected a set of electrodes
over a position on my arm, and linked in a control box. He then
proceeded to over ride my own signals and drive my arm like a robot
manipulator, then operated my fingers/hand etc. A very scary feeling
when you try to move your arm one way and it goes the other
(especially when you're sober).
Apparently a lot of their work was spent mapping the signals between
nerve centres that correspond to different movements - they were also
starting work on pressure and temperature. The idea was to develop of
prosthesis that could talk to and from the brain, and manipulate
carefully, and give sensor feedback. Very impressive.
Dom
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 21:07:10 +0000
From: Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: to satsify my curiosity
At 13:46 -0500 21/11/00, bruce johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:
>I suppose you're speaking of the Falklands War? In that case the RN was
>_hardly_ fighting without air support (they had their carriers with
>them), and they were fighting an opponent without naval forces that
>could stand up to them. That the Argentines managed a ship kill was less
>a tribute to their strengths than to the unanticipated side effects of
>the post WWII world, where the sale of state-of-the-art armaments became
>a significant source of revenue for the industrialized First World. The
>RN hadn't prepared for an allies' missile (the French Exocet) being
>fired at them.
Actually they had. The HMS Sheffield kill was partially a result of
the ship having its own air search radar shut down to prevent
interference with the communications system while they discussed a
problem with false images with HMS Coventry. The images where being
provided by HMS Hermes on a data link, from 20 miles away to the
East. As a result there was insufficient warning to respond.
What the impact did proves was the threat of sea skimming missiles,
and the flammability issues with wiring and aluminium builds.
The carriers had no real AEW capability (this was refitted to Sea
Kings post Falklands IIRC), and the Harriers are reasonably short
ranged. Admittedly the current versions (which have a similar Air
Search Radar to the Tornado F3 and the capability to carry AMRAAM
(better than the previous Sidewinder)) would probably have done a lot
better. The whole carrier position was weakened by the decision by
governments some years earlier that the UK didn't need carriers (HMS
Invincible was smuggled through as a 'Through Deck Anti Submarine
Warface Cruiser' with a flat top for helicopters), and the lack of a
real interceptor since the Ark Royal and her F4s where retired.
As to 'managed a ship kill', from memory the Argentines actually sank
or damaged:
HMS Sheffield (Exocet)
HMS Coventry
HMS Antelope
HMS Ardent
Atlantic Conveyor
Severely Damaged
RFA Sir Tristram
RFA Sir Galahad
Damaged
HMS Glamorgan (Exocet)
HMS Broadsword
HMS Brilliant
HMS Antrim
HMS Plymouth
Dom
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 21:34:23 +0000
From: Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: [BITS] DRAGONMEET 2000 reminder
BITS - British Isles Traveller Support
http://www.bits.org.uk/
Dragonmeet 2000 is nearly upon us and BITS will be attending. As well
as the stall, we'll be running Traveller RPG sessions, and are
planning demonstrations of ACQ and the Traveller Full Thrust
Conversion... the gory details are given below.
Confirmed BITS attendees are Andy Lilly and myself. I also wouldn't
be surprised if David Thomas (Author of 101 Governments, SpaceDogs!,
GT Alien Races 2 and 3 amongst others) will be around as it is his
neck of the woods.
BTW there is *no pokemon* planned.
Date: Saturday 25 November 2000
Time: 10.30 am to 9 pm
Venue: Conway Hall, Red Lion Square, London WC1
Admission: £4 in advance, £5 on the door (student, OAP, unemployed £2.50 / £4)
Events mentioned in brochure -
* RPGs, cards, miniatures, live action....
*Prize Tournaments.
*No Pokemon
*Manufacturer's Demos
*Open Gaming Area
*No Pokemon
*Trade Stands
*Launch events for some new games
*No Pokemon
*Auction of rare items.
The flyer mentions 'free stuff for every attendee', but I don't know
what that is.
Further details can be found at http://www.dragonmeet.com/ or by
emailing info@dragonmeet.com or by phoning 020 7738 8877.
Dom (BITS Webmaster)
- -----
http://www.bits.org.uk/ http://www.core.org.uk/
Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved. Used under permission of licence.
BITS, CORE and the associated logos are trademarks of BITS UK Ltd.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:49:02 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Planetary mechanics questions
>From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Thanks for your responses.
>One thing needs clearing up though -- is Regina's 80-day orbit
>measured with respect to Lusor, or is it an absolute (sidereal)
>period? I'm assuming sidereal in my calculations, which would make
>the solar period 100 days.
I don't know what this means (I was never an astrophysicist; I only worked
in the library). How would Regina's orbit around Assiniboia be measured
with respect to Lusor? I understood the 80 day figure to mean once around
Assiniboia; that sounds to my lay ear like an absolute period.
What does "solar period" mean?
>The equation for circular orbit works out to
>
> rho (r / R)^3 = 3 pi / G T^2,
>
>where r is Assiniboia's radius, R is the orbital radius of Regina
>about Assiniboia, and T is Regina's (sidereal) orbital period.
>
>Guessing rho = 1000 kg/m^3 (similar to Jupiter), I get
What is rho (besides 1000 kg/m^3)?
What is G?
>> Regina's orbit around Assiniboia brings it closer and farther to
>> Lusor in an 80 day cycle. How can I figure out how much warmer and
>> cooler it gets?
>
>This makes it sound like you meant an 80-day solar period. In that
>case, re-work the above calculations for a 67-day sidereal period.
I guess so. What do the terms "solar period" and "sidereal period" mean?
>I hope this helps.
Yes, it helps a lot. I appreciate your assistance.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 16:53:49 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
>>But also a long one. Useful multicellularity took a long time to arise on
>>Earth, something like 3.0-3.5 billion years.
>
>Unfortunately we have really no idea why this length of time was
>needed. Maybe under some conditions it takes 10^8 years and 10^11
>under others.
The natural followup to your first sentence there is "and have no particular
reason to assume that it's unusually long or short."
Sure, it's science fiction, but if you're taking off from this point it
you'll need to declare up front that it's one of your premises -- if you
want to use a gun you have to put it on stage. As I said before,
"handwaving".
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:54:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: Worst games ever
> Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 20:34:33 +0100
> From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
> Subject: Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
>
> "Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
> > GURPS Ice Age/Atomic Horror: fire, the wheel, writing, and other things man
> > was not meant to know.
>
> Easily a possible crossover if you reverse the order of events. Ever
> heard of nuclear winter? With atomic ants? =)
I don't think Sagan mentioned the ants. Odd oversight, don't you think?
How about GURPS Illuminati Ground Forces ("There is no Operation Fnord.
You don't see that tank. Your world hasn't been invaded. Now, move
along."). Or GURPS Old West Bestiary (you never knew there were so many
different kinds of cattle!). Or GURPS Russian Warehouse ("Nyet, nothing
here. Sold on black market, all, last week. Oh, you have vodka? Hrm,
maybe can do something.").
- --
| Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
--*-- "Here's to the struggles of the silent war,
| here's to the closing of the age." -The Call
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 10:55:48 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: to satisfy my curiosity
On 21 Nov 2000, at 12:27, Christopher Thrash wrote:
> >Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 06:53:11
> >From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
> >Subject: Re: to satisfy my curiosity
> >
> >I think that the scenarios provided (2nd Ed. updated it a little) were
> >fairly realistic. And as a vet, I found very little to complain about with
> >their presentation of the military, even a broken down one.
>
> Agreed. The main reason I never played T2K was that it was too much like work.
That was also the main reason my school group stopped playing T2K after we
left. Most of us joined various parts of the military.
- --
Rupert Boleyn
"Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out."
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 16:58:02 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
>I thought typical atmospheres were very opaque to X-rays?
It's not one hundred percent opaque, unless we're into a Hal Clement-esque
world whose "atmosphere" is molten lead :)
Keep in mind that we're talking four orders of magnitude more x-rays than
our own Sun here.
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 14:12:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
> Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 08:12:51 +1100
> From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
>
> Yes, the planet would almost certainly be tide-locked. This need not
> be a problem, though. So long as the side facing the star is still
> cool enough to hold water, the planet should be (theoretically) able
> to support life.
The problem is the "cold trap" effect. If the atmosphere is not much
denser than earth's, heat exchange between the day and night sides is
relatively inefficient. Over time, all of the water (and perhaps even the
atmosphere itself) will freeze out on the night side, with no way to
liberate it. Note that this process accelerates once atmosphere starts
freezing out, as the thermal transport capacity of the atmosphere drops.
It's just possible that a locked planet with an uninhabitably hot day side
and earthlike atmosphere would push enough warm air onto the night side to
avoid this. The result would be a habitable band along the terminator, in
the twilight, much like old-fashioned SF views of Mercury. This would
work better for small planets. You'd get a more or less continuous cold
wind off the nightside which would rapidly heat and rise as it hit
sunlight, possibly leading to really dramatic storms. Might make a nice
locale for an adventure or two. (Big problem with this scenario, by the
way, is that the extreme atmospheric heating and small size would tend to
allow the atmosphere to escape into space too quickly.)
The other good solution to the habitable-planet-around-M-dwarf problem is
to have a double planet, or nearly so. That way the pair will tide lock
to each other, rather than the star, leading to long solar days, but still
a lot better than being tide locked to the star. Niven used this idea in
several of his Draco's Tavern stories.
- --
| Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
--*-- "Here's to the struggles of the silent war,
| here's to the closing of the age." -The Call
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 09:14:56 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Trade volumes
On Tue, Nov 21, 2000 at 09:42:18AM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> >If your competitors are making do with local materials and
> >expertise to build widgets for 1000 Cr each, you'll still have a
> >very big advantage.
> If they have to "make do" that one thing. But, as a real world example,
> in a lot of places it took a long time to get farmers to switch from
> horses/mules to tractors. And in Asia, water buffalo *still* win out.
> Depends on the *rest* of the situation. On a low pop world, probably
> not. On a high pop world, it provides more jobs!
So it could be due to massive government intervention? Yes, I can
almost see that in the 3I -- "I'm sorry, we can't permit an import of
any widgets because we have a factory producing 100 tons per year
already, and we have to support local industry. Do you care to donate
to the Widget Workers Fund?" :^)
> But did it account for all trade a couple centuries back?
Pretty much, yes. I've done some research into 1800s shipping, and it
did make up most of the trade volume.
> Because trade in Traveller *doesn't* resemble trade on Earth since
> about the mid 1800s. The travel times *and* communication times make
> a big difference.
Shipping today is not dissimilar in transit times to shipping in
Traveller, and accounts for almost all trade volume. (Air freight
makes up only a small portion). I grant that international
communication is faster now, but Traveller comm speeds are similar in
nature and speed to those during almost all of the 1800s.
> Any planet *that* big will need so many (and likely be looking for
> ways to keep all those folks busy) that they are apt to go for local
> production.
Not if they can import them cheaper. The busy folks will be those
producing other goods, many for export.
> Sorry, but you are *assuming* the point you are trying to *prove*.
Not at all.
> *Why* would there be that many ships?
Because I've looked at the trade volumes already indicated in
published material. Even at an average of only 0.2% of the overall
economy, it would require very large numbers of ships to carry all
that stuff. Even more so since large ships are not significantly
cheaper per ton than small ones, either to build or to run.
What I don't understand is why there aren't more still.
> And keep in mind that the Traveller equivalent of an oil tanker or
> ore freighter isn't going to be carrying incidental cargo.
Maybe not, but someone will. It would be wasteful for the widget
company to have its own ship in general. However, they aren't the
only company on the planet. There will be lots of them, all doing
their own intermittent imports/exports. Add them all up, and you have
a steady stream of freight for a shipping company to make a nice
profit on.
In fact, even if they were the only company on the planet, they could
easily charter a ship a few weeks ahead of time.
> > These are not unique problems to space travel. They occur in the
> > real world, and they have tried and true solutions.
>
> Yes, and the ones you are thinking of are based on *fast*
> communication, as well as fast travel. When both are the same
> (relatively slow) speed, things are more apt to tilt towards local
> production.
No. I'm thinking of the 1800s, where international travel and
communication were of similar speed to those in the Traveller
universe. Probably by design.
> And while you say I'm thinking of small outposrs, you appear to be
> thinking of the *rare* hi-pop worlds.
Yes. The ones that account for 99% of the population and economy.
The Englands and United States of the Traveller universe, rather than
the Bruny Islands or Antarcticas.
If anything, the trade volume per person is likely to be *higher* for
worlds with pop in the 100k range, since there are more things they
would be unable to produce locally (insufficient industry base). They
would have to pay for it by exporting stuff they can produce cheaply.
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 17:19:28 -0500
From: "Jonathan 'Caraig' McDermott" <caraig@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3310
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
>Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 07:55:23
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
>Subject: RE:Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
<snip>
>GURPS Psionic Swashbucklers: Rapier wit.
*SPLORT!*
<snip>
>GURPS Viking Illuminati: fjord.
BWAA!!!! I laughed so hard after reading this I almost hurt myself! As if a
near-keyboard kill wasn't enough!
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=I0Qv
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 14:23:49 -0800
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: cybernetics (medicine in the OTU, longish)
> > If that weren't the case, the prospect for surviving a double (leg)
amputation would be grim.
>
> The survival rate for traumatic amputations is generally excellent ; as
> with all trauma, survival depends largely on the severity of head injury
> and (acutely) speed and appropriateness of resuscitation.
>
> However, most amputations are carried out because of complications of
> diabetic or atherosclerotic vascular disease. Survival post these
> procedures is often poor, due to the lack of reserve of the subjects. A
> good BOTE estimate is 50% survival at 12 months, <5% at five years for
> *single limb* (above knee) amputations.
What about the survival rates of amputation due to phyical trauma? I would
expect must higher survival rates in the case of amputations in otherwise
healthy adults. I'm thinking in this case of amputations in the case of
industrial accidents or war related amputations.
Tod
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 17:25:44 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
>The other good solution to the habitable-planet-around-M-dwarf problem is
>to have a double planet, or nearly so. That way the pair will tide lock to
>each other, rather than the star, leading to long solar days, but still a
>lot better than being tide locked to the star.
You can also give your planet's orbit a bit of eccentricity and the day and
year won't lock into a 1:1 ratio. You can get a 3:2 ratio, like Mercury's,
without so much lopsidedness that you'll really vary the world's insolation.
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 14:55:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
Craig Berry writes:
>
> The other good solution to the habitable-planet-around-M-dwarf problem is
> to have a double planet, or nearly so. That way the pair will tide lock
> to each other, rather than the star, leading to long solar days, but still
> a lot better than being tide locked to the star. Niven used this idea in
> several of his Draco's Tavern stories.
Though your planetary components are going to need to be pretty close together
to remain co-orbital, you can't have a moon at anywhere near the orbital
distance of our moon if within the life zone of an M-class star.
Gas giant moons could also have day/night cycles, but have similar stability
problems, plus large moons probably aren't all that common anyway.
One interesting combination I was pondering was, say, an M8 dwarf (.06 solar
mass, luminosity 0.001) orbiting a G0 star (1.1 solar mass, luminosity 1.4)
at around 1.6 AU, with a planet orbiting the dwarf at 0.05 AU. Periods:
dwarf orbits the G0 every 700 days, planet orbits the dwarf every 17 days.
The planet will absorb about 55% of normal solar radiation from the G0 star,
and about 40% of normal from the M8 star, resulting in a total which is about
4 degrees cooler than earth on average, but very strangely distributed.
Any thoughts on what weather on such a world would be like?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 17:59:47 -0500
From: howard.anderson@psu.edu (Cheng Tseng)
Subject: Re: to satsify my curiosity
Re: HMS SHEFFIELD
>What the impact did proves was the threat of sea skimming missiles,
>and the flammability issues with wiring and aluminium builds.
No, it had nothing to do with aluminium, inspite of what the popular press
and Lady Thatcher say.
SHEFFIELD had steel hull, steel superstructure. There was no major sources
of aluminium. None of the Type 42 destroyers did, and the only ships in the
Falklands that did have aluminium superstructures were the two Type 21 frigates.
>The carriers had no real AEW capability (this was refitted to Sea
>Kings post Falklands IIRC), and the Harriers are reasonably short
>ranged. Admittedly the current versions (which have a similar Air
Yep. The big carriers the RN had carried IIRC the Gannet AEW. There was
supposedly a program to give the Sea Kings AEW capibility during the
war...but that did not quite make the desired deadline.
>Search Radar to the Tornado F3 and the capability to carry AMRAAM
>(better than the previous Sidewinder)) would probably have done a lot
More then two Sidewinders capacity would help even more.
>better. The whole carrier position was weakened by the decision by
>governments some years earlier that the UK didn't need carriers (HMS
>Invincible was smuggled through as a 'Through Deck Anti Submarine
>Warface Cruiser' with a flat top for helicopters), and the lack of a
>real interceptor since the Ark Royal and her F4s where retired.
1981 White Paper envisioned the INVINCIBLE as being sold to Australia. Just
imagine the problems that would have caused Corporate?
The Paper also was suppose to be guidance on how the RN was suppose to fight
future wars. Did not take long to kill that idea either.
>Damaged
>HMS Glamorgan (Exocet)
Have to hand it to the guys aboard GLAMORGAN. Maneuvering to take an Exocet
hit on the stern, and *still* continue providing shore bombardment.
C.T.
"Retiring student loans, one miserable cent at a time."
Cheng Tseng - Will econ forecast for food.
Search the Net and Make Some Cash:
http://www.catpile.com/index.shtml?refid=ctseng
http://www.searchcactus.com/member/welcome.asp?7024
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3313
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3314
Date: | 11/21/00 5:21:32 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Tuesday, November 21 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3314
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Info on tethers and other "alternative tech"
G:T Products
Re: One Year Anniversary MiniCon, part 1
RE:Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
Re: to satsify my curiosity
Re: One Year Anniversary MiniCon, part 2, featuring Striker PMS <long>
Re: G:T Products
Re: Trade volumes
Re: Planetary mechanics questions
Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
Re: One Year Anniversary MiniCon, part 2, featuring Striker PMS <long>
Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
Re: G:T Products
Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
Re: G:T Products
Re: G:T Products
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Government Code
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 10:19:49 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Info on tethers and other "alternative tech"
On Tue, Nov 21, 2000 at 10:20:22AM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> > It's the support structures that I'm thinking of. Not just in the
> > engineering sense, but the administration and logistic sense as well.
> > It seems to be a tradeoff between a cheap and dumb system, and a more
> > expensive system with much more flexibility.
>
> There's more flexibility than you might think, as the tether can be
> sped up and slowed down in various ways so as to both avoid "space
> junk" and allow for some shifts in pickup times.
I already thunk :^)
But still, a CG/Thr craft can go basically anywhere, anytime.
[...320G acceleration for 20 km tether...]
> I think you've goofed somewhere. They are designing with a *2 g* max
> acceleration criteria!
Simple rotational mechanics. a = v^2/r. Do the calculation yourself.
For 2G max acceleration boosting to Earth orbital speeds, the tether
has to be at least 6400 km across.
That, or there is a coordinated series of tethers (adding up to 6400
km in length).
> Remember, the "tip speed" is a combination of the rotational velocity
> *and* the orbital velocity. And the tethers rotate "backwards" so as to
> get the most time at the "low" end for pickup/release.
Tip speed can be made zero, by having the rotation speed equal the
orbital speed in magnitude. That's 8000 m/s in low earth orbit. If
the tether is 20 km in radius, that's 8000^2/20000 = 3200 m/s^2, or
320 G. If the tether spins slower, the tip speed can't be zero at the
low end.
> > rendezvous point by 1 metre the wrong way, it gets hit with a great
> > big whip stronger than steel and moving at around 300 km/hr.
>
> Again, you've got the figures *badly* wrong.
Someone has. I'm assuming only what you've told me, what I've read
about tethers on the www.tethers.com web site, and basic physics.
The basic design for launch to orbit seems to involve a hypersonic
aircraft (Mach 10-12) getting the payload to 100 km altitude, where it
is caught by an orbiting tether.
In the Traveller universe, such a hypersonic vehicle will be capable
of reaching orbit by itself (just leave the thrusters on a bit
longer). The tether seems redundant.
> The space station may be at the hub of the tether. I know the Dr,
> Forward covered doing it another way, but I don't recall exactly how.
It seems to me that if you can use a suborbital craft to deliver cargo
to a tether system that collects the cargo at a space station for a
starship to dock and collect it, you would be better off just having
the starship pick it up directly from the suborbital craft without
entering atmosphere. And that's only if the starship can't land to
pick up the cargo itself.
> Or just fling them at a station at the 100 diameter limit. It catches
> them, and transfers them to ships. As long as the inbound and outbound
> masses balance, the setup is stable.
I suppose if your release system is capable of aiming to an accuracy
of 1 part per 100 million, yes. Otherwise you need thrusters and
control systems, which is what you were trying to avoid by using
tethers. Granted, they do not need to be as powerful and that would
save some costs.
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 12:21:52 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: G:T Products
A question about G:T products - which are worth having?
I haven't really been paying a lot of attention to G:T for a variety of
reasons, but I've decided that I would like to expand my Traveller collection,
and as I can get G:T products without too much hastle I'm wondering which are
really worth having. By this I mainly mean ones that cover subjects that
previous versions of Trav haven't covered well, and do so without having
strangenesses that don't 'fit'.
BTW I've already got G:T (1st ed), and I've ordered Ground Forces on the
strength of the quality of ACQ.
- --
Rupert Boleyn
"Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out."
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 18:28:51 EST
From: Ludowick@aol.com
Subject: Re: One Year Anniversary MiniCon, part 1
Kristian Miller wrote:
>Operation Big Battle ended in the usual draw. However, the Rebels blew
>up Ming's Pleasure Platform (probably a blow to Loyalist morale which
>will end the civil war). We really tested the Striker rules (how do you
>handle point defense against cluster bombs being dropped by a jet that
>has over flown your position?).
If the CBM munitions are bombs (which would have to be dropped prior to
overflight) which dispense munitions when the the *bomb* gets over the
target area (actually moments before overflight) the PD system would
engage the "bus" bombs, not the bomblets. This is the "easy to figure"
scenario.
If it is a cluster bomblet "pod," where the aircraft or whatnot does over-
fly the target and begins dispensing many bomblets shortly before the
moment of overflight, then: assuming the PD system doesn't shoot at the
platform (the aircraft), it could use the PD vs. indirect fire rule to zap
the submunitions -- but how many bomblets are in a given sized cluster?
Hmm... How about divide the warhead weight by 2 (from the weight of a 4cm
warhead) to determine the number of submunitions? So, an 8cm warhead of
14 kg (minimum size for CBMs in Striker) would have 7 submunitions, and a
480 kg, 30cm warhead could dispense 240 ICM submunitions. Anyone have RL
figures for total submunitions carried by various warheads (and their mass)?
How did the San Jose group handle it?
Ludowick
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 17:35:24 -0500
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com>
Subject: RE:Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
> Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 07:55:23
> From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
> Subject: RE:Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
>
> At 02:56 PM 11/21/2000 -0000, you wrote:
> >
> >Could be worse...with cross-overs and varients you can create all sorts
of
> >monstrosities (eg GURPS Whorehouse 23) . Howabout a Traveller/Kult
> >crossover? <shudder>
>
> Just dug this up:
>
> GURPS Dada/Surrealism.
<snip>
That's a Keyboard Kill.
Dave Shayne
"Every day my metal friend
Shakes my bed at 6 AM (Wake up)
Then the shiny servant clones
Running with my telephones."
"Living in the Plastic Age" - Horn/Downes
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 23:33:22 +0000
From: Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: to satsify my curiosity
At 17:59 -0500 21/11/00, howard.anderson@psu.edu (Cheng Tseng) wrote:
>Re: HMS SHEFFIELD
>
> >What the impact did proves was the threat of sea skimming missiles,
> >and the flammability issues with wiring and aluminium builds.
>
>No, it had nothing to do with aluminium, inspite of what the popular press
>and Lady Thatcher say.
>SHEFFIELD had steel hull, steel superstructure. There was no major sources
>of aluminium. None of the Type 42 destroyers did, and the only ships in the
>Falklands that did have aluminium superstructures were the two Type
>21 frigates.
That'll teach me to slip in that about aluminium, which is more
appropriate to the Type 21s - ISTR that the big killer for the
Sheffield was toxic smoke from the insulation on the electrical
wiring, plus the fact that the ship had a single fore/aft passageway
as a result of budget cuts in the design. IIRC the Type 42 was the
replacement for the Type 82 (HMS Bristol) class when that was axed
with the carrier - it is effectively a de-scoped ship.
The aluminium on the Type 21s was problematic though - I think
they've abandoned its use since then for new ships.
> >Search Radar to the Tornado F3 and the capability to carry AMRAAM
> >(better than the previous Sidewinder)) would probably have done a lot
>More then two Sidewinders capacity would help even more.
True, but the RN did a lot of work post Falklands upgrading the Sea
Harrier (hence AMRAAM etc). It'll be interesting to see if the new
carriers use the JSF or the Navalised Typhoon or both....
>1981 White Paper envisioned the INVINCIBLE as being sold to Australia. Just
>imagine the problems that would have caused Corporate?
And Hermes was due to be sold to India...
>The Paper also was suppose to be guidance on how the RN was suppose to fight
>future wars. Did not take long to kill that idea either.
Thankfully.
Dom
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 18:32:53 EST
From: Ludowick@aol.com
Subject: Re: One Year Anniversary MiniCon, part 2, featuring Striker PMS <long>
Luther Martin wrote:
>The high TL stuff can get
>really wierd. Everything is within effective range unless you are
>playing in
>a gymnasium (we weren't). Grav vehicles can pop up at will and zap
>anyone on
>the board.
For firing at pop-ups see rule 16B. They can be spotted in the movement
phase (of whomever moves them). They can then be fired on in the moving
player's Fire Phase (the other player conducts direct fire before the
moving player does in each fire phase; this is when you can hit pop-ups
before they hit you -- at pop-up altitude). Note that some types of tac
missile have limits on firing at pop-ups (they arrive a bit late).
If you use 1 mm = 4 meters (25 mm = 100 m), then the weapon ranges aren't
too bad (use 1/300th scale models). A gravtank moving 8 gameboard meters
per turn now moves 2 meters. An effective range of 3 gameboard meters
now is down to 75 cm (less than 30"). The models occupy a bit more space,
but it could be worse. Striker itself has a rule for 1 mm = 2 meters scale.
Another option, either in combination with a reduced scale, or to be used
alone, is to modify the turn sequence to use a Pulsatile Movement System
(PMS), like the Impulse Movement in Star Fleet Battles. The turn is
divided into, say, 10 three second pulses, with stands moving 1/10th of a
full movement distance per pulse.
Initiative could be diced for, could alternate between players, or could
be determined by the nature of the scenario (attacker could be declared
to have the initiative for the entire game, for example). The player with
initiative is called the First Player. The other fellow is the Second
Player. The turn sequence would be as follows:
1. Command Phase. Unchanged.
2. Pulsatile Movement and Combat Phase. Replaces movement & fire phases
for both players. Action occurs in 10 three-second pulses. Each pulse
occurs as follows:
A. Indirect fire Step.
Indirect fire missions of both sides are resolved as if they
occured simultaneously. All units in the beaten zone or which
moved into the beaten zone in the previous turn/pulse are
effected. Casualties & Morale checks handled as necessary.
B. Second Player Movement Step.
Units of player who doesn't have initiative move 1/10th their
normal move at their current speed. Spotting attempts may made
by both sides.[1]
C. First Player Movement Step.
Units of player who has the initiative move 1/10th their normal
move at their current speed. Spotting attempts may made by both
sides.[1]
D. First Player Direct Fire Step.
Units of the player with the initiative now conduct direct fire.
Casualties & Morale checks handled as necessary. Spotting for
both sides may also occur.[2]
D. Second Player Direct Fire Step.
Units of the player without initiative now conduct direct fire.
Casualties & Morale checks handled as necessary. Spotting for
both sides may also occur.[2]
E. Melee Step.
Identical to ordinary Melee Phase, except each Melee Step has
only one "round" -- even if it is a continuing melee.
3. Panic Morale Check Phase. Unchanged.
[1]. Since there are now many more spotting opportunities, the spotting
rolls should probably be made more difficult (but units automatically
spotted should still be so; it's probably hard to miss a Trepida
moving out into the open from behind a hill). We'll also have to
determine vehicle acceleration, deceleration, & turn rate per pulse.
As more sightings of enemy units may occur, morale may need to be
increased per troop type (with initiative level requirements increased
as well, ala the Aslan rules).
[2]. Units can fire at targets spotted in the previous step, but not at
targets spotted in the current step (wait until next pulse). Tac
missile movement rates will probably need to be determined (based on
high performance DM?). Turret rotation rates per pulse will have to
be determined (based on weight of turret & TL).
As for weapon ROF, one option is to use standard Striker fires unchanged,
and note that weapons may fire once per five pulses (or ten pulses if slow
firing/poorly stabilized). So a tank that fired on turn 1, pulse 1, could
fire again at turn 1, pulse 6; again at turn 2, pulse 1 (10th pulse after
the first), and so on.
The other option would allow as many shots per turn as allowed by the
weapon's ROF. An autocannon with ROF 800 per 30 second turn could fire
80 rounds per pulse (DM +4). An anti-tank gun with ROF per turn of 5
could fire every other pulse (but no more multiple hits). The ROF of
some weapons would have to be determined, as it is not listed in Striker.
If movement effects cause no fire in enemy fire phase than weapon ROF is
cut in half. Movement effects of no fire at all would still be no fire
at all. Did I actually type that?
Vehicle speeds would have to be specified before any movement pulses, to
determine weapon stabilization effects (either in the command phase, or
in an added step before the Indirect Fire Step).
Some details will need to be worked out (tac missile movement, point def-
ense fire, turret turning rate, etc.), but this idea might work. My gaming
group considered using it back in the 80s, but never got around to grafting
SFB style turn sequence to Striker.
Note that some players will have difficulty with the PMS system's added
complexity (there have been reports of headaches, irritability, mood swings,
even bloating and homicidal tendencies). :P
Other names for the pulses used by the PMS system:
Stutterphase (has a nice, GDW sound to it).
Striker Ranks (abbreviated SR).
Hiccoughs (as each is just seconds long, they could be called GURPS
burps, after the 1 second GURPS round).
:>
Note that a careful reading of rule 16B implies that Striker already has an
equi-
valent to a pulsatile movement system... So instead of my suggestion, you
could let the player who is not in their current turn "interrupt" (ala MT,
but
automatically) the movement of enemy units to fire upon them, and allow
the moving player to stop at a certain point and conduct fires in their FFP,
(thus blending the movement & fire phases a bit), then continue moving. Also
see rule 20A for more on Striker turn sequence subtleties.
>Yes, our side won convincingly, killing about 70% or so of the Vargr
>while
>taking minimal casualties, but this was mostly due to the lack of
>familiarity with the rules concerning smoke. If we played again, things
>would be very different. Under the cover of smoke they would have
>overrun
>us, or at least won by occupying the starport as they needed to do. It
>was
>one of those victories that it's really hard to feel good about. More
>of a
>rules victory than a tactical victory.
>
>Even those TL 5 4 cm autocannons can cover a huge area with smoke.
Ouch. I think Striker limits you to two rounds of smoke per gun, per
turn, for direct fire weapons. I've never heard of autocannon laid smoke
screens (in real life). For big screens, use indirect fire barrages.
>>We will probably meet again in early December and may try a different
>>game. Any suggestions.
>
>I have heard rumors that Ming actually escaped the destruction of his
>secret
>base, and is currently fleeing on one of his Azhanti High Lightning
>class
>ships. Maybe a boarding action can resolve the Ming issue once and for
>all.
>There must be some good way to play this out. Some way to simuate close
>combat aboard a Azhanti High Lighting class ship. Azhanti High
>Lightning.
>Why does that name sound familliar?
I've never even seen AHL. What is the combat system like?
Ludowick <of the ten fingers>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 15:38:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: G:T Products
Rupert Boleyn writes:
> A question about G:T products - which are worth having?
>
> I haven't really been paying a lot of attention to G:T for a variety of
> reasons, but I've decided that I would like to expand my Traveller
> collection, and as I can get G:T products without too much hastle I'm
> wondering which are really worth having. By this I mainly mean ones that
> cover subjects that previous versions of Trav haven't covered well, and do
> so without having strangenesses that don't 'fit'.
What do you define as 'strangenesses that don't fit'? Far Trader and First
In are both excellent books, but deviate from traveller canon in some areas
in which traveller canon is irrational -- for example, Far Trader uses per-
parsec costs instead of per-jump costs in freight rates.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 15:40:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Trade volumes
Hm...may I suggest a reading of GT: Far Trader for those interested in this
issue?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 10:43:56 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Planetary mechanics questions
On Tue, Nov 21, 2000 at 01:49:02PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
> >One thing needs clearing up though -- is Regina's 80-day orbit
> >measured with respect to Lusor, or is it an absolute (sidereal)
> >period? I'm assuming sidereal in my calculations, which would make
> >the solar period 100 days.
>
> I don't know what this means (I was never an astrophysicist; I only worked
> in the library). How would Regina's orbit around Assiniboia be measured
> with respect to Lusor? I understood the 80 day figure to mean once around
> Assiniboia; that sounds to my lay ear like an absolute period.
Probably the easiest way to see the difference would be to think about
an extreme case. Suppose Regina was so far from Assiniboia that it
orbited once per 400 days. Visualise a diagram:
O o .
Lusor Ass Reg
Now, 200 days later, Regina has completed half an orbit around
Assiniboia, and so is now to the right. In the same time, Assiniboia
has also completed half an orbit around Lusor:
. o O
Reg Ass Lusor
Note that Regina is still in Assiniboia's shadow -- in fact it never
left that shadow. The 'sidereal' period is how long the orbit takes
from an outside point of view (in the extreme example, 400 days). The
'solar' period is how long it takes to complete an orbit relative to
the sun (in the extreme example, *never*).
For the Moon orbitting the Earth, the solar period is 29.7 days (the
time between successive new moons). The sidereal period is less, 27.5
days. This is because by the time the moon completes a sidereal
orbit, the Earth has moved about a twelfth of its own orbit and so the
Sun is now in a different part of the 'sky'. The Moon has to go a bit
further before it is once again between the Earth and the Sun.
> >The equation for circular orbit works out to
> >
> > rho (r / R)^3 = 3 pi / G T^2,
> >
> >where r is Assiniboia's radius, R is the orbital radius of Regina
> >about Assiniboia, and T is Regina's (sidereal) orbital period.
> >
> >Guessing rho = 1000 kg/m^3 (similar to Jupiter), I get
>
> What is rho (besides 1000 kg/m^3)?
Sorry, rho is the name of the Greek symbol commonly used for density.
In this case, I'm using it for Assiniboia's average density. At first
I thought the answer might depend on Assiniboia's size, but it turns
out that it doesn't.
I expect that planetary densities would usually range between 500
kg/m^3 for light gas giants to 6000 kg/m^3 for worlds with lots of
metals like Earth.
> What is G?
The universal constant of gravitation -- used in Newton's law of
gravity. G ~= 6.673 x 10^-11 m^3 / kg s^2
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 10:45:48 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
On Tue, Nov 21, 2000 at 04:53:49PM -0500, Paul Drye wrote:
> >Unfortunately we have really no idea why this length of time was
> >needed. Maybe under some conditions it takes 10^8 years and 10^11
> >under others.
> The natural followup to your first sentence there is "and have no
> particular reason to assume that it's unusually long or short."
Sure, which is why I put Earth's time period right smack bang in the
middle.
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 12:45:46 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: One Year Anniversary MiniCon, part 2, featuring Striker PMS <long>
On 21 Nov 2000, at 18:32, Ludowick@aol.com wrote:
> >Even those TL 5 4 cm autocannons can cover a huge area with smoke.
>
> Ouch. I think Striker limits you to two rounds of smoke per gun, per
> turn, for direct fire weapons. I've never heard of autocannon laid smoke
> screens (in real life). For big screens, use indirect fire barrages.
That's because in RL 40mm and smaller rounds, especially those fireable by
autocannon don't make much smoke. Now a 60mm automatic mortar, OTOH...
- --
Rupert Boleyn
"Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out."
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 10:48:06 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
On Tue, Nov 21, 2000 at 04:58:02PM -0500, Paul Drye wrote:
> Keep in mind that we're talking four orders of magnitude more x-rays than
> our own Sun here.
Sure -- and still not much would get to the surface of a world with an
atmosphere of Earthlike thickness or more. Even if lots did, there's
still oceanic or rock shielding to protect developing life.
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 12:50:12 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: G:T Products
On 21 Nov 2000, at 15:38, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Rupert Boleyn writes:
> > A question about G:T products - which are worth having?
> >
> > I haven't really been paying a lot of attention to G:T for a variety of
> > reasons, but I've decided that I would like to expand my Traveller
> > collection, and as I can get G:T products without too much hastle I'm
> > wondering which are really worth having. By this I mainly mean ones that
> > cover subjects that previous versions of Trav haven't covered well, and do so
> > without having strangenesses that don't 'fit'.
>
> What do you define as 'strangenesses that don't fit'? Far Trader and First In
> are both excellent books, but deviate from traveller canon in some areas in
> which traveller canon is irrational -- for example, Far Trader uses per- parsec
> costs instead of per-jump costs in freight rates.
Well I heard that First In has a really non-canon suit of scout power-armour.
That would count. As for per-parsec costs - I can live with things like that,
provided it's noted that it is different from canon, or is done to make othe
rparts of canon make more sense (as I imagine that would - for starters it's
actually worth making high-jump merchant vessels).
- --
Rupert Boleyn
"Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out."
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 10:56:04 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
On Tue, Nov 21, 2000 at 02:12:37PM -0800, Craig Berry wrote:
> It's just possible that a locked planet with an uninhabitably hot day side
> and earthlike atmosphere would push enough warm air onto the night side to
> avoid this.
If its uninhabitably hot on the day side, then most likely all the
volatiles (like water) would escape. I was thinking more of internal
heating keeping the temperature warm enough to avoid freezing the
atmosphere. I think Earth has this much internal activity, doesn't
it? A planet has to be *very* cold before nitrogen freezes out.
> The other good solution to the habitable-planet-around-M-dwarf problem is
> to have a double planet, or nearly so. That way the pair will tide lock
> to each other, rather than the star, leading to long solar days, but still
> a lot better than being tide locked to the star. Niven used this idea in
> several of his Draco's Tavern stories.
Much less probable though. I've heard that even Earth's moon is
improbably big, and that isn't enough to retain an atmosphere.
Hmm -- maybe a gas giant with Earthlike moon? That doesn't sound very
improbable. Quite possibly even common -- we'll just have to see when
we discover more planets around nearby stars :^)
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 11:00:18 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
On Tue, Nov 21, 2000 at 05:25:44PM -0500, Paul Drye wrote:
> You can also give your planet's orbit a bit of eccentricity and the
> day and year won't lock into a 1:1 ratio. You can get a 3:2 ratio,
> like Mercury's, without so much lopsidedness that you'll really vary
> the world's insolation.
In fact it wouldn't really matter much if you did vary insolation by
30-50%. The orbital period would be short enough that it would only
be a matter of weeks from hottest to coldest periods, short enough for
thermal inertia to smooth it significantly.
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 16:00:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: G:T Products
Rupert Boleyn writes:
> Well I heard that First In has a really non-canon suit of scout
Well, it does, but it's not exactly a big chunk of the book ;) A much more
noticeable effect is that First In doesn't result in worlds much resembling
classic traveller world generation -- habitable worlds are fairly rare, tiny
worlds with breathable atmospheres just don't happen, and you don't wind up
with any low-tech uninhabitable worlds. Whether you think this is good or bad,
it is clearly different from traveller canon.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 13:05:49 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: G:T Products
On 21 Nov 2000, at 16:00, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Rupert Boleyn writes:
>
> > Well I heard that First In has a really non-canon suit of scout
> Well, it does, but it's not exactly a big chunk of the book ;) A much more
> noticeable effect is that First In doesn't result in worlds much resembling
> classic traveller world generation -- habitable worlds are fairly rare, tiny
> worlds with breathable atmospheres just don't happen, and you don't wind up with
> any low-tech uninhabitable worlds. Whether you think this is good or bad, it is
> clearly different from traveller canon.
Hmm. I've been using a non-canon world gen system for my non-OTU settings for a
while, but IMO things intended to fit an OTU should probably use rules that
give similar results.
- --
Rupert Boleyn
"Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out."
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 19:07:51 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Thanks for all your comments. Now I know that the radiation is the _least_
of peoples' worries. And that nuclear war is probably _not_ as dangerous as
portrayed in "The Day After" (haven't seen it, but I've been wanting too and
it looks bad).
BTW, I read that nuclear weapons work by converting a small percentage of
the reation mass into energy. Which parts are converted, especially in
fusion reactions?
- -J. Jensen
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 19:16:26 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Government Code
> Well, in the lower population situations, it could be argued that it's
> not a "dictatorship".
>
Maybe. It depends on your definition. Here's mine:
- ------------------------------
dictatorship (dik'ta'tor'ship) n.
A method of governing in which the party of the first part (the
"government") takes full control of the rights and freedoms of the party of
the second part (the "people") and (often) suppresses those rights and
freedoms.
- ------------------------------
It has nothing to do with population. If you have a different view, please
explain it.
- -J. Jensen
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3314
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3315
Date: | 11/21/00 7:31:36 PM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, November 21 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3315
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3306
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3306
Re: Government Code
Re: G:T Products
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Government Code
Re: To satisfy my curiousity
Re: cybernetics
Re: cybernetics
Re: to satisfy my curiosity
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3309
Re: cybernetics
Re: to satsify my curiosity
Re: cybernetics
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: BI-15 Dreadnought
Re: to satsify my curiosity
Re: to satsify my curiosity
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 17:17:33 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3306
In mail you write:
> Timothy Little wrote:
>>
> <<snip>>
>>
>> Depends upon what mesons in the Traveller universe are. I doubt
>> they're charged, or they would interact a lot more strongly with
>> normal matter. Are they fermions, bosons, or are these labels
>> inappropriate in Traveller science?
>
> From everything I've seen on the TML from folks with a far more detailed
> knowledge of particle physics than I ever expect to approach, mesons as
> described in Traveller could probably be best labeled as "bogusons."
And just as "mesotron" quickly became "meson", "boguson" became
"bogon". :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 19:40:37 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3306
>
>And just as "mesotron" quickly became "meson", "boguson" became
>"bogon". :-)
>
And the prime producer of bogons? The Vogons of course! As _everyone_ knows,
just as the High Prime General Councilor Dude was explaining his plans to
have Bogons use vogons to destroy planets for a living, a glitch in the
translator (a clump of earwax) caused the ambassador to hear "Vogons use
bogons".
- -J. Jensen
_____________________________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 17:43:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Government Code
James Jensen writes:
> Maybe. It depends on your definition. Here's mine:
>
> ------------------------------
> dictatorship (dik'ta'tor'ship) n.
> A method of governing in which the party of the first part (the
> "government") takes full control of the rights and freedoms of the party of
> the second part (the "people") and (often) suppresses those rights and
> freedoms.
> ------------------------------
That's the definition of a totalitarian state, not a dictatorship (though
there's nothing in the definition of totalitarianism to require oppressive
behavior, they're just typically associated). A dictatorship is a form of
totalitarian state in which the power is concentrated in a single person or
small group.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 02:51:44 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: G:T Products
Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> A question about G:T products - which are worth having?
Read the list FAQ :-)
http://www.vectis.demon.co.uk/traveller/faq/tml-faq.html
I love First In ! Great system for world generation.
The Alien Races modules are great (if you don't have the older Alien
modules).
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 12:52:30 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
On Tue, Nov 21, 2000 at 07:07:51PM -0600, James Jensen wrote:
>
> BTW, I read that nuclear weapons work by converting a small percentage of
> the reation mass into energy. Which parts are converted, especially in
> fusion reactions?
In the D+T -> He+n reaction, the sum of the masses of the helium and
neutron are less than the sum of the masses of deuterium and tritium.
That's where the mass is lost.
Although, it is actually true that in *any* energy-producing reaction
(nuclear or not), that the final mass is (very slightly) smaller than
the initial mass.
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 21:00:31 -0500 (EST)
From: James Jensen <cheebzero@email.com>
Subject: Re: Government Code
>That's the definition of a totalitarian state, not a dictatorship (though
>there's nothing in the definition of totalitarianism to require oppressive
>behavior, they're just typically associated). A dictatorship is a form of
>totalitarian state in which the power is concentrated in a single person or
>small group.
Dictatorship<=>Totalitarian State
It works out about the same. As a matter of fact, by your definition, govt types 10-15 can ALL be considered totalitarian states (individual or small group, typically high law level, etc.).
Anyway, here's what I'm suggesting (Ignoring govt 14-15 due to their non-inclusion in CT & T4):
Put Religious Dictatorship at the top of the probability curve, at govt 5 (allowed at ANY pop level), change FT into type 7, and put balkanization at 13. It makes more sense (in my mind) in a sci-fi for balkanization to be only at high pop levels. The lower levels hae fewer citizens to appease and thus can maintain a greater majority of their confidence in a single world government. Just apply a DM of +8 to Law Level rolls for gov 5 and -6 for gov 13 (this evens things out a little).
(BTW, Mr. Miller, if you're reading this, I'd like to suggest it for T5.)
- -J. Jensen
==============================
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Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 21:22:06 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: To satisfy my curiousity
> > > > I'll confess that I gave T2K a miss on grounds of bad taste.
> > >
> > > what about the game did you find in bad taste?
> > >
> > > LKW
> > > <<<<
> > > It wasn't me posted that, but I had a similar reaction (at
> > first.) These
> > > were the (if you'll pardon the expression) 'Ronnie Raygun' years
I didn't vote for the man.
What I used to say at the time (and I still maintain) was that Twilight: 2000
was a fantasy, just like D&D (albeit a different premise), and specifically
designed to appeal to a certain customer -- a market that had not been tapped
up to that point -- and we hit a nerve. The game outsold Traveller for about
18 months and tied with Paranoia for best RPG that year (Say -- Paranoia also
postulated a survivable nuclear war . . . how come it wasn't a crime against
humanity?).
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 17:29:02 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: cybernetics
In mail you write:
> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>
>> In mail you write:
>>
>>> In-Reply-To: <000b01c04f99$82cae720$3200a8c0@jeff>
>> > 2. Whole-body cloning... available only to the very rich, a complete
>> > body is maintained on life-support (the brain being the one bit not
>> > grown, in effect it's in a permanent vegetative state) and parts may
>> > be taken as and when required. Again no compatibility problems. This
>> > may or may not be legal, and even when legal may be frowned upon,
>> > raise ethical questions, etc.
>>
>> If it's got a brain *capable* of functioning, any *law student* could
>> likely make the case for it being a violation of the "chattel slavery"
>> law.
>
> Agreed.
>
>> If it doesn't have a brain, then you get into the ugly questions
>> related to things like abortion. What is "human" and when does a
>> fertilized egg *become* "human".
>>
>> Also, keep in mind that there are "ancephalic" children born. And
>> decision that says a clone with no brain isn't human says *they*
>> aren't human either.
>
> And this is a problem because?
Humans tend to get *real* nervous when folks start drawing lines saying
"this is human, that isn't". *Especially because there are so many ways
to abuse any such rules.
> Given the wide variety of alien life, it would seem only sensible that
> the Imperium would decree sentience as being in possession of a
> functional sentient brain. After TL 13, Neural Activity Sensors
> could even determine this fact empirically. While I imagine that
> there would be a good bit of leeway for semi-sentient animals and
> the mentally damaged, something like an ancephalic sentient is a
> total vegetable and would sensibly be only considered useful for
> organ harvesting.
Just keep in mind that a modern EEG is just as good as an NAS, the NAS
can just detect activity in *distant* brains.
And there are cases of "brain dead" people in comas "waking up". And
with advancing medical techniques, that sort of thing could become more
common.
There's also the messy issue of the difference between a body with no
brain because of a natural genetic or developmental problem and one
where the brain was *prevented* from developing. The latter *could* be
considered "killing" a sentient.
>>> 3. An enhanced version of contemporary organ-donation practices,
>>> with improved treatment protocols to minimise rejection problems.
>>> This is probably legal (assuming you go to a reputable clinic, there
>>> are doubtless 'organ-leggers' to be found of far lesser legality!).
>>
>> And on some planets, they may gene-type any transplanted organs that
>> you have (the drugs you'll probably *always* have to take make this
>> rather obvious). And if they match the gene type of an organlegger
>> victim on file you are in *big* trouble.
>
> Actually, with TL 12+ technology they might well be able to tailor
> viruses to alter the organ cells so that it is not rejected. That
> seems perfectly normal gene therapy. However, any reasonable
> method of doing this will not alter these cells enough that their
> original source can't be determined.
Also, I seem to recall reading an article that seems to imply that it
may turn out to be easier to get the recipient's body to accept foreign
tissue as "self" than to get the foreign tissue to "ID" itself as
"self".
Here's a nasty that's possible *now*, and fits well with the "evil
decadent nobles" idea some folks are fond of (actually *any*
"hereditary privileged group works).
At an early age (the first few months after birth, as I recall), you
can transplant or inject a small amount of "foreign" tissue and the
infant's body will add it's "markers" to its list of "self" markers.
So you could take some "useless" babies and tag them as future donors
for another "more valuable" baby. You don't even need cloning to get
multiple genetically identical donors, just in vitro fertilization
techniques that also exist now (you let the fertilized egg divide a few
times then seperate the cells before they start to differentiate)
By having the donors genetically different, you can avoid the worry of
a donor taking over the recipient's life. You also get to replace
things like organs that are failing because of genetic weaknesses with
ones that don't have such problems.
And the donors can be raised to think that they have a *duty* to give
up organs. And they care excercised, get a proper diet etc, since their
job is to make the body (note: not "their" body!) the best possible
body for the "exalted one" (or whatever title the recipients use to
distinguish their "superior selves" from the lowly donors).
The Imperium wouldn't allow this sort of thing. But it'd make a nasty
society for the PCs to encounter outside the Imperium. Or in the
"Wilds" in a TNE or "recovery from the Long Night" campaign.
>> They may only do this if they "take an interest" in you. Say if you
>> are arrested or need major medical treatment.
>
> Makes good sense. The best way to keep organ-legging under
> control is to track organs. That way, anyone who uses illegal
> organ can no longer safely obtain serious legal medical treatment.
> At this point, you now must depend upon criminals to survive, a
> situation which few would be willing to risk. OTOH, with interstellar
> travel, someone who had ever been off-world could easily claim
> they got their transplant elsewhere. Given that I can't see any
> world below Law Level C doing highly intensive medical scans on
> all visitors, stopping organ-legging could still prove difficult. The
> key to a successful business would be importing off-world organs.
> Of course, such organs would have to be smuggled in, presenting
> all manner of interesting scenarios for unscrupulous or unwitting
> tramp freighters.
Check out John Brunner's "The Pirates of Zan". A significant plot
element is organ leggers selling parts obtained on a lost colony that
they stumbled across.
>> > 5. For limb-replacements, it is likely that bio-mechanics have
>> > advanced to such a state that a functional and 'natural-looking'
>> > false leg or whatever can be manufactured. Using cloned skin and
>> > flesh overlays it will be almost unnoticeable short of a full-body
>> > scan or close medical examination. Enter the Bionic Man... these
>> > could be manufactured with enhanced capabilities, if you want to pay
>> > the price!
>>
>> "Bionic man" type *strength* enhancements are flat out impossible. For
>> two reasons. First, living bone is a *lot* stronger than steel. Or any
>> "bio-inert" alloy yet found. Thats's because bone is a *composite*
>> material, just like fiberglass or graphite/epoxy. And since the range
>> of motion and limb size place rather severe limits on the size/shape
>> of bones, you can't just make things thicker.
>
> Steel might be weaker than bone, but what about TL 12
> composites, or even superdense? Stronger than bone is quite
> easy with Traveller materials tech.
Yeah, but as I note below, it has to be stronger in *several* ways
*and* biologically inert.
>> Second, the bionic limb has to attach to your *non*-bionic skeleton.
>> And *it* can't handle the load. So even if your bionic arm could lift
>> 10 tons your shoulder, spine and legs couldn't take it.
>
> Very true.
>
> However, you could run superdense struts along all major bones
> (this would be *very* serious surgery, but perhaps possible with TL
> 13 or 14 tech). It would also be *very* obvious on any sort of scan,
> and you would likely gain 10 or 20 kg of mass.
>
> Also, while you couldn't lift much more than normal (some more,
> our bones can bear more weight than our muscles can lift)
Not true. Convulsions caused by some nasty diseases have been know to
break bones when opposing muscle groups *both* go into maximum
contraction.
Exerting that sort of force *conciously* is unusual.
Also, things like tendons (or the equivalent) ripping loose are far
from uncommon. *Which* component (bone, muscle, tendon) fails first is
a toss up.
> if you
> replace an arm with an enhanced prosthetic you could get vast grip
> strength and a wrist which can rotate at 500 rpm and have no
> problems. Both traits could prove quite useful in the correct
> situation.
360+ degree rotation isn't compatible with any sort of "skin". And at
the wrist, it'd make the fingers very weak. Feel the back of your hand
as you move a finger. The tendons that connect them to muscles and
anchor points go *thru* the wrist!
>> Legs are just as bad, because the pelvis has limits. And things like
>> running/walking have speeds partially set by mass & length of the
>> legs, as they act somewhat like a pendulum. So they have a "natural"
>> rate and it takes more effort than you might expect (and thus higher
>> forces applied to the pelvis) to make them swing faster.
>
> Agreed, faster running would basically require a nearly fully robotic
> body controlled by a brain in a vat.
>> Some sensory enhancements are possible. But learning to use them could
>> take a long time.
>
> It should be rather easy to use them separately. Telescopic vision
> would be just like using a pair of binoculars, while switching to IR
> vision could be made almost exactly like using a pair of IR goggles.
> OTOH, taking full advantage full spectrum vision going from IR to
> UV might require extensive training, fancy genetic surgery, or it
> might only be possible if used on young children.
Yeah, I don't think our brains are up to handling much more "bandwidth"
as far as "color" data goes. So you could go the "false color" route
with the full bandwith (T-rays to X-rays or gamma???) compressed into a
single "octave", and then "zoom in" on sections of interest.
ps. T-rays are kinda neat. They are the band between IR and the upper
radar/radio bands. The T stands for "terahertz". Among other things,
you can see thru clothing and some types of wall with them!
So "high tech" security gear will spot all those goodies you have
hidden in your clothes and bag. :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 18:02:45 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: cybernetics
In mail you write:
>> >>"Bionic man" type *strength* enhancements are flat out impossible. For
>> >>two reasons. First, living bone is a *lot* stronger than steel. Or any
>> >>"bio-inert" alloy yet found. Thats's because bone is a *composite*
>
> Only stronger per unit of mass, i.e. a bone is stonger than a piece of steel
> of the same weight. Change that to the same volume and results are quite
> different.
Nope, it's stronger *volume for volume*! As the designers of things like
elbow replacements are often heard to complain about. The replacement
*must* be the same size and shape. And *normal* activities tend to
break things like the "spur" that acts as a stop to keep your elbow
from bending backwards.
> This is a good point. Biomods that increase ability will have to be done
> with careful consideration to colateral systems. Strengtheneing bones my be
> a non-issue (we already replace joints with titanium alloy analogs)
Which are *weaker* than the original unless they are in a spot where
the replacement can be *thicker*. They are just better than living with
the bad joint.
>, but
> improving muscle could be disaterous if the underlying skeletal system can't
> support the load.
Yeah. Realistic version of "Steve Austin":
Lifts car with bionic arm. And either the arm rips out of his shoulder,
or his spine collapses. Ouch.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 18:10:55 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: to satisfy my curiosity
In mail you write:
> There was a wargame, "NATO, Nukes, and Nazis" that proposed an alternate
> universe where Germany and the US held their first A-bomb tests within
> hours of each other, and WWII ended in a stalemate, with Hitler holding
> most of western Europe, except for the Free French Republic, and also
> having the mostly radioactive remains of the Soviet Union. NATO are the
> remnants of the Allies, dedicated to at least containing the Thousand Year
> Reich.
>
> Used it as a setting in a world-hopping CORPS game I did. Finding
> Checkpoint Charlie in Brussels, with Nazis on the other side, was a bit of
> a shock for the players.
The variation I keep coming back to (but haven't ever seen in a game or
story) has the Germans getting the bomb *and* not getting Peenemunde
wrecked by that bombing raid.
This means that they'd have the A-10(?), the Sanger Antipodal bomber or
*both* avialable as carriers for the bomb.
The A-10 was a 2 stage V-2. The upper stage had wings and was to be
piloted. The idea was to have the pilot bail out after aiming the upper
stage at the target. I doubt that there'd be any great problem finding
a few volunteers who'd not bother bailing out.
The Antipodal bomber used a series of "skips" off the upper atmosphere
to extend its range to over 12,000 miles. Alas, the two shortcomings
were that it could only "bomb" at the start of a "skip", which meant
that the possible target areas were a series of "rings" around the
lauch site. And then there's the problem of getting it back to the
launch site or finding a landing site in the part of the world
"opposite" Germany.
Worse, it only would have had a useful payload of a ton or so.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 21:27:32 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3309
> And now I've convinced everyone on the list that I am nuts. Oh well, they
> should have worked that out by now.
>
> Alan Bradley
You were not the consumer the game was aimed at.
As a wargamer and a student of military history, I think we could get along
very well if we had no further wars. History provides me with more than
enough material already -- I need no more.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 21:35:55 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: cybernetics
>Yeah, I don't think our brains are up to handling much more "bandwidth"
>as far as "color" data goes. So you could go the "false color" route
>with the full bandwith (T-rays to X-rays or gamma???) compressed into a
>single "octave", and then "zoom in" on sections of interest.
This isn't quite what you were talking about, but I've read of an astronomer
who had to have his corneas replaced back in the early days of modern cornea
surgery. Apparently, the retina is slightly sensitive to UV, and the brain
can interpret it, but the corneas block it out. At the time of this surgery,
however, the material used in the replacements was transparent to
ultraviolet light. So this chap became the world's only naked-eye
ultraviolet astronomer....
Unfortunately, I've never been able to track down an original source for the
story, so I'm missing details I'd like to know (how does the brain interpret
ultraviolet? Another colour? Just a shade of blue? What?) There also remains
the possibility the whole thing is an urban legend.
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_____________________________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 18:25:20 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: to satsify my curiosity
In mail you write:
> I presume the 'walking to America' option involves traversing the Arctic
> Icecap... trick at best, as it it's frozen all the way to Russia, by the
> time you get to the Canadian side there will be clear water to cross.
> Also, a single nuke onto the ice will wipe out the entire attacking
> army, never mind the logistics of the operation, and fighting down
> through the tundra of Northern Canada... The mind boggles.
You walk across the Bering strait in midwinter.
Still dangerous as hell, but a lot more workable.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 20:53:12 -0600
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: cybernetics
Paul Drye wrote:
<<snip>>
>
> This isn't quite what you were talking about, but I've read of an astronomer
> who had to have his corneas replaced back in the early days of modern cornea
> surgery. Apparently, the retina is slightly sensitive to UV, and the brain
> can interpret it, but the corneas block it out. At the time of this surgery,
> however, the material used in the replacements was transparent to
> ultraviolet light. So this chap became the world's only naked-eye
> ultraviolet astronomer....
>
> Unfortunately, I've never been able to track down an original source for the
> story, so I'm missing details I'd like to know (how does the brain interpret
> ultraviolet? Another colour? Just a shade of blue? What?)
As a hazy shade of winter, of course. ;-)
- --
"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you
least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of
your unit."
-- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's
magazine of preventive maintenance
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 20:58:28 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
>
>In the D+T -> He+n reaction, the sum of the masses of the helium and
>neutron are less than the sum of the masses of deuterium and tritium.
>That's where the mass is lost.
>
>Although, it is actually true that in *any* energy-producing reaction
>(nuclear or not), that the final mass is (very slightly) smaller than
>the initial mass.
>
But the result of that kind of fusions is a hydrogen atom and a spare
neutron, as you said. These are the same componants that you started with. I
thought that (quarks aside) protons, neutrons, and electrons were the
smallest things in the universe.
So, what is lost?
- -J. Jensen
_____________________________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 21:01:29 -0600
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: BI-15 Dreadnought
Antony Farrell wrote:
>
> During my FFS1 construction of the 700,000 dt BI-15 Dreadnought I noticed
> that it carried a number of 1,000 dt craft.
>
> Does anyone have an idea of what these craft would be?
>
> Would they be a single type or a number of classes. SDBs, transports?
The exact loadout probably is mission-dependent. I would design several
different craft, including SDBs, shuttles (cargo and personnel), fuel
skimmers, and carried starships. To determine the mothership drives
needed to achieve the desired n-space performance, assume that all
carried craft are the most massive variant.
- --
"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you
least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of
your unit."
-- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's
magazine of preventive maintenance
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 22:20:06 -0500
From: howard.anderson@psu.edu (Cheng Tseng)
Subject: Re: to satsify my curiosity
>That'll teach me to slip in that about aluminium, which is more
>appropriate to the Type 21s - ISTR that the big killer for the
>Sheffield was toxic smoke from the insulation on the electrical
>wiring, plus the fact that the ship had a single fore/aft passageway
>as a result of budget cuts in the design. IIRC the Type 42 was the
>replacement for the Type 82 (HMS Bristol) class when that was axed
>with the carrier - it is effectively a de-scoped ship.
Yep. SHEFFIELD taught a great deal about using non-toxic insulation,
arrangement of water mains, and other fun facts about damage control.
The Falklands also taught a great deal about what was better, more
capability ships or cheaper ships. Just look at the specs of the Type 23
frigates - before the war, it was intended as cheapo, smallo, slowo,
replacement for the expensive Type 22 frigates.
The postwar Type 23 was a much more capable warship.
>The aluminium on the Type 21s was problematic though - I think
>they've abandoned its use since then for new ships.
IIRC, the Type 21 were the only ships the RN built with an aluminium
superstructure.
>True, but the RN did a lot of work post Falklands upgrading the Sea
>Harrier (hence AMRAAM etc). It'll be interesting to see if the new
>carriers use the JSF or the Navalised Typhoon or both....
Navalized Typhoons rank rather low on the list...
And for some reason, no doubt due to distorting the law of maintaince and
refit, the RN will only get TWO (2) CV(F)s.
>>1981 White Paper envisioned the INVINCIBLE as being sold to Australia. Just
>>imagine the problems that would have caused Corporate?
>
>And Hermes was due to be sold to India...
It would have been even funnier to wait a couple years and watch the British
merchant marine disappear...
C.T.
"Retiring student loans, one miserable cent at a time."
Cheng Tseng - Will econ forecast for food.
Search the Net and Make Some Cash:
http://www.catpile.com/index.shtml?refid=ctseng
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 18:32:03 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: to satsify my curiosity
In mail you write:
> Yes, I came to praise T2K, not to bury it (despite "Bangcock:Cesspool of
> the Orient", which I will now shut up about).
I've never seen it, but based on the stuff that is currently going on
there (and has been for decades), I'd be willing to believe quite a
bit...
> America or the Eastern Bloc. The scenario was regarded as believable by
> the culture that produced it, that is the thing that shocked Europeans.
> I know it wasn't regarded as likely, possible, realistic or ideal. But
> it wasn't a world ruled by giant intelligent mung beans. The Eurotheatre
> makes perfect sense on a diet of domino theory, but European visions of
> WWIII tended to be a bit shorter than the American ones. Usually about
> 15 minutes, in fact.
Sorry, but nuking the hell out of Europe makes even *less* sense than
invading it. Just about every *conceivable* reason for a Soviet
invasion of Europe requires that the infrastructure be reasonably
intact afterwards.
Eastern Block? That'd require *NATO* to invade. And they rather
conspicously refrained from doing so in spite of "extreme
provocation"/"good reasons" three times that I can think of.
Invading America is as silly as the US invading Russia.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3315
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3316
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, November 22 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3316
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: to satsify my curiosity
Re: to satsify my curiosity
Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures (Pulsars)
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3306
RE:Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
Re: to satsify my curiosity
Re: To satisfy my curiousity
Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
RE:Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Info on tethers and other "alternative tech"
Re: to satsify my curiosity
Re: Planetary mechanics questions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 18:37:06 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: to satsify my curiosity
In mail you write:
> On Tue, 21 Nov 2000, Rob Myers wrote:
>
>> Matt Bond wrote:
>>
>>> Just where do you think a land based invasion of the US was going to
>>> come from?
>>
>> Canada or Mexico. :-)
>> I don't know. Where did "Red Dawn", "Price of Freedom" and "Amerika"
>> have it coming from?
>
> That magical place called 'bad script land'. None of them ever quite
> mentioned how the logistics of it all went.
The only one I saw was "Red Dawn". And as I recall, they were supposed
to have staged thru Central America and Cuba.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 18:40:21 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: to satsify my curiosity
In mail you write:
> Yeah, but the war that escalates to WWIII won't have been started with
> that aim in mind. There will be a small conventional war, both sides
> reinforce, each expects the other to back down, as "they can't possibly
> think they can win this without resorting to nukes, and no-one is that
> mad". Someone *will* be 'that mad'...
>
> In any case, a tad more than 'All is alright with the world'... 15
> minutes... 'BOOOOOOOMMMMM!!!!'
Until recently, I'd have said that the "best bet" would be an
India/Pakistan conflict going nuclear and drawing in the Chinese (maybe
because a stray nuke lands in their territory?).
Right now, I'm rather hoping that none of Israel's neighbors have
nukes.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 18:46:08 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
In mail you write:
> At 02:56 PM 11/21/2000 -0000, you wrote:
>>
>>Could be worse...with cross-overs and varients you can create all sorts of
>>monstrosities (eg GURPS Whorehouse 23) . Howabout a Traveller/Kult
>>crossover? <shudder>
>
> Just dug this up:
<snip>
> GURPS Atlas Shrugged
> "Okay. The six-foot-three capitalist rapes you. Roll versus Will - 2 to
> avoid falling in love with him."
On the other hand, getting Serious for a moment, you could swipe
"Anthem" and plop it down in the Wilds or in newly re-contacted space
after the long night.
I'd hate to have to be the folkswho had to re-contact *that* society!
> GURPS: L. Ron Hubbard -- characters quest for increasingly large sums of cash
> in order to acquire superhuman (but never demonstrated) powers.
Oddly, at least one writer *other* than Hubbard has taken something
suspiciously similar to some of L.Ron's babblings and used it to good
effect in several series of stories.
> GURPS Robots/Voodoo: "Come, my ancestors. Come, 6502. Come, Amiga. Come,
> P6."
What? No Z-80?
> GURPS Ice Age/Atomic Horror: fire, the wheel, writing, and other things man
> was not meant to know.
Remember the old Microgame set in the Stone Age? I was tempted to set
up a Stone Age D&D campaign after reading thru it. :-)
> GURPS Martial Arts Fantasy Folk: Hobbit ninjas!
And how is this different from GURPS Bunnies & Burrows? <g>
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 18:53:11 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
In mail you write:
> At 02:56 PM 11/21/2000 -0000, you wrote:
>
>>Could be worse...with cross-overs and varients you can create all sorts of
>>monstrosities (eg GURPS Whorehouse 23) . Howabout a Traveller/Kult
>>crossover? <shudder>
>
> Traveller/Metamorphosis Alpha. We mis-jumped, and came out in deep space,
> then this big ship appeared...
Traveller/Gamma World is almost workable.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 18:53:48 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures (Pulsars)
In mail you write:
> I wonder if ships in the 3I are hardened enough to approach a system with a
> pulsar star? Are the belters crazy enough... :)
Well, remember that the "pulses" are radiation coming out in a pair of
narrow cones from the star. The star isn't actually "pulsing". Instead
one of the cones sweeps past us like the beam from a lighthouse.
So approaching from the right angle you can avoid that. And if there
*are* planets there won't be an accretion disk (they'll have formed
from the disk).
But a bigger hazard is that if the pulsar is young enough, those
planets may be almost as radioactive as a high level nuclear waste
dump. I don't think they could be as radioactive as a reactor core
unless there were a *lot* of transuranics in the cloud they formed
from.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 14:39:15 +1100
From: Robert Houghton <rhoughto@one.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3306
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> In mail you write:
>
> > Timothy Little wrote:
> >>
> > <<snip>>
> >>
> >> Depends upon what mesons in the Traveller universe are. I doubt
> >> they're charged, or they would interact a lot more strongly with
> >> normal matter. Are they fermions, bosons, or are these labels
> >> inappropriate in Traveller science?
> >
> > From everything I've seen on the TML from folks with a far more detailed
> > knowledge of particle physics than I ever expect to approach, mesons as
> > described in Traveller could probably be best labeled as "bogusons."
>
> And just as "mesotron" quickly became "meson", "boguson" became
> "bogon". :-)
>
So called due to the fact that the particle tracks from initial experiments
were moth shaped...
Other Rob
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 21:25:32 -0600
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net>
Subject: RE:Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
At 07:55 AM 11/21/00, you wrote:
>At 02:56 PM 11/21/2000 -0000, you wrote:
>>
>>Could be worse...with cross-overs and varients you can create all sorts of
>>monstrosities (eg GURPS Whorehouse 23) . Howabout a Traveller/Kult
>>crossover? <shudder>
>
>Just dug this up:
>GURPS Atlas Shrugged
>"Okay. The six-foot-three capitalist rapes you. Roll versus Will - 2 to
>avoid falling in love with him."
Actually that's the architect in GURPS The Fountainhead.
The big problem in GURPS Atlas Shrugged is staying awake during the
**long** speeches.
>GURPS Viking Illuminati: fjord.
"SPAM! SPAM! SPAM! AHHHHHHH!!!!!!!"
====================================
Revolutionaries are not nice people.
====================================
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 22:41:53 EST
From: CPoppcap@aol.com
Subject: Re: to satsify my curiosity
red dawn the came from every where
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 22:57:16 -0500
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: To satisfy my curiousity
>What I used to say at the time (and I still maintain) was that Twilight:
2000
was a fantasy, just like D&D (albeit a different premise), and specifically
designed to appeal to a certain customer -- a market that had not been
tapped
up to that point -- and we hit a nerve. <
That's what I always thought. I would have been shocked if someone told me
that was actually some sort of bizarre political fantasy or statement from
the writers or something equally bizarre.
And like others, the system was just too much to deal with. Bought most of
the stuff as reading material more than anything else. I still check it out
every now and then and even used one of the adventures in a recent Alternity
game.
>As a wargamer and a student of military history, I think we could get along
very well if we had no further wars. History provides me with more than
enough material already.<
Yep.
Sam
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 22:05:29 -0600
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net>
Subject: Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
At 06:53 PM 11/21/00 PST, you wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>> At 02:56 PM 11/21/2000 -0000, you wrote:
>
>> Traveller/Metamorphosis Alpha. We mis-jumped, and came out in deep space,
>> then this big ship appeared...
>
>Traveller/Gamma World is almost workable.
The fellow who introduced me to Traveller used the psionics rules from
Gamma World.
Les
>
>--
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
>
>
====================================
Revolutionaries are not nice people.
====================================
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 19:51:16 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
In mail you write:
>>>If it were just normal light, I'd agree with you. But flare star flares
>>>pump out *a lot* of x-rays. There's energy and then there's way too much
>>>energy, know what I mean? It's difficult to picture a biosphere that eats
>>>regular doses of ionizing radiation like candy, not without some serious
>>>scientific handwaving anyway.
>>
>>Filter it thru a bit of rock, or lots of water, and you just "harvest"
>>the chemicals created by the energy flux. :-)
>
> Mmmmm...maybe...I'd want to see how long the water would last under all that
> ultraviolet and x-rays before signing off on this possibility. "The
> chemicals created" from water are hydrogen and oxygen, and we all know how
> hydrogen leaks into space over fairly short periods of time.
True, but methane and ammonia are a bit sturdier. And *high* energy
radiation tends to make radicals rather just break up the molecules. So
there'd be a lot of NH2-, OH-, CH3- etc floating around to react with
things.
> I would guess (without doing any math) that any water vapour of a planet
> under a flare stare would be broken down into its component atoms, with the
> hydrogen going away and the oxygen getting bound to rocks as various oxides.
> The oceans would gradually be sucked dry.
Given the sort of intensities mentioned, I'm leaning towards
ammonia or methane oceans.
> Once the water's all gone, I don't *care* if you can start using a bit of
> rock as a filter instead. At that point, all the little critters have bigger
> problems than dealing with excess UV.
True enough. Then again, look at all the happy chemosynthetic bacteria
living in crustal rock here.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 19:55:25 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
In mail you write:
>> Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 08:12:51 +1100
>> From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
>>
>> Yes, the planet would almost certainly be tide-locked. This need not
>> be a problem, though. So long as the side facing the star is still
>> cool enough to hold water, the planet should be (theoretically) able
>> to support life.
>
> The problem is the "cold trap" effect. If the atmosphere is not much
> denser than earth's, heat exchange between the day and night sides is
> relatively inefficient. Over time, all of the water (and perhaps even the
> atmosphere itself) will freeze out on the night side, with no way to
> liberate it. Note that this process accelerates once atmosphere starts
> freezing out, as the thermal transport capacity of the atmosphere drops.
>
> It's just possible that a locked planet with an uninhabitably hot day side
> and earthlike atmosphere would push enough warm air onto the night side to
> avoid this. The result would be a habitable band along the terminator, in
> the twilight, much like old-fashioned SF views of Mercury. This would
> work better for small planets. You'd get a more or less continuous cold
> wind off the nightside which would rapidly heat and rise as it hit
> sunlight, possibly leading to really dramatic storms. Might make a nice
> locale for an adventure or two. (Big problem with this scenario, by the
> way, is that the extreme atmospheric heating and small size would tend to
> allow the atmosphere to escape into space too quickly.)
>
> The other good solution to the habitable-planet-around-M-dwarf problem is
> to have a double planet, or nearly so. That way the pair will tide lock
> to each other, rather than the star, leading to long solar days, but still
> a lot better than being tide locked to the star. Niven used this idea in
> several of his Draco's Tavern stories.
Is a 2:1 resonance like Mercury's long term stable? If so, it'd be a
third solution.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 19:57:02 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
In mail you write:
>>However, this seems to be because the Earth kept freezing over (worse
>>than an ice age. *Oceanic* ice clear to the equator!
>
> Even the proponents of the Snowball Earth think the big ice ages only
> started about 800 million years ago. We're still talking a couple of billion
> ice-free years between the first primitive life and the first multicellular
> organisms, and even a billion between the first eukaryotes and the Sno-Cone
> Party Central.
Just a side comment...
Snowball Earth transitions (either the freeze over or the thaw) are
thought to happen on timescales of a few centuries or *less*.
Which means that there's a good chance of one or more planets in the
Imperium having experienced one or the other. Either makes for an
interesting background.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 19:59:31 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
In mail you write:
>>I thought typical atmospheres were very opaque to X-rays?
>
> It's not one hundred percent opaque, unless we're into a Hal Clement-esque
> world whose "atmosphere" is molten lead :)
Pity there's no way to generate the homeworld o the aliens from
"Iceworld". That'd be fun to throw at players.
BTW, is 61 Cygni on the official sector maps? <eg>
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 20:03:43 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
In mail you write:
> Tried to send this yesterday, but the mail system was down:
>
>>From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
>>Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
>>
>>On Sun, 19 Nov 2000, James Jensen wrote:
>>
>>> Recently I've been reading "Alas, Babylon", by Pat Frank.
>>>
>>> So, I was wondering: how large an area does an average thermonuclear
> warhead
>>> irradiate, and what would it be like to live in an area just outside (by
>>> five-ten miles) of a blast. And _is it_ possible to survive nuclear war?
> <snip>
>>
>>Is it possible to survive thermonuclear war? Yes, humans have survived
>>some amazingly nasty stuff. Would it be fun? Not on your life. Would it be
>>like 'Alas Babylon'? Not even.
>
> Here is a little historical tidbit to calibrate your perceptions.
> All the cheetahs alive today are almost genetically identical - almost close
> enough to be brother and sister. The theory is that sometime in the
> not-too-distant past, something bad happened that wiped out most of the
> cheetah population, leaving only a few survivors. The estimates are as low
> as 7 to 9 individuals, perhaps one pregnant female and her litter. Before
> us naughty humans started mucking things up further, cheetahs came back and
> were spread from Africa to India. While the lack of genetic diversity is
> troubling to researchers and conservationists, it is at the same time an
> amazing story of success.
One theory is that *all* the wild cheetahs died out and that they were
re-established when hunting cheetahs kept by Egyptian nobles escaped.
The breeders would have eliminated a lot of "bad genes" from the
"domesticated" cheetahs in the process of breeding for other desired
traits. Which makes escapees rather more viable than such a small
population would otherwise be.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 22:45:54 -0600
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net>
Subject: RE:Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
At 07:55 AM 11/21/00, you wrote:
>At 02:56 PM 11/21/2000 -0000, Doug Berry wrote:
>>
>>Could be worse...with cross-overs and varients you can create all sorts of
>>monstrosities (eg GURPS Whorehouse 23) . Howabout a Traveller/Kult
>>crossover? <shudder>
>
>Just dug this up:
How about GURPS 2001?
"I'm sorry Dave ... "
Or perhaps GURPS Apocalypse Now? I used to think of it more as a demented
remake of The Wizard of Oz than as an Vietnamised adaptation of Heart of
Darkness.
"Kansas. Darn. I was still only in Kansas."
Les
====================================
Revolutionaries are not nice people.
====================================
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 20:06:40 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
In mail you write:
> Thanks for all your comments. Now I know that the radiation is the _least_
> of peoples' worries. And that nuclear war is probably _not_ as dangerous as
> portrayed in "The Day After" (haven't seen it, but I've been wanting too and
> it looks bad).
"The Day After" was *at least* as bad as the "nuclear war will be an
inconvenience" stuff from the 50s. Pure propoganda.
> BTW, I read that nuclear weapons work by converting a small percentage of
> the reation mass into energy. Which parts are converted, especially in
> fusion reactions?
It's the "binding energy" of the atoms that's released in *both*
fission and fusion.
For example, a hydrogen 1 atom ("protium") has a mass of 1.007825032
daltons, and a helium 4 atom has a mass of 4.002603250 daltons. So:
4 H1 -> 1 He4 + energy
4*1.007825032 -> 4.002603250 + 0.028696878
BTW, if you continue fusing heavier and heavier atoms, you hit iron-56
(mass 55.934942)
56 H1 -> 1 Fe56 + energy
56*1.007825032 -> 14 He4 + 0.401756292
14*4.002603250 -> 55.934942 + 0.503259792
Note that the first step releases close to 80% of the *total* energy
available.
All isotopes from Fe56 on up *use* energy when you try to fuse them.
That's why stars collapse and go supernova.
With fission, the atom you start with is heavier than the pieces you
break it into. The difference winds up as energy.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 20:29:19 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Info on tethers and other "alternative tech"
In mail you write:
> On Tue, Nov 21, 2000 at 10:20:22AM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> > It's the support structures that I'm thinking of. Not just in the
>> > engineering sense, but the administration and logistic sense as well.
>> > It seems to be a tradeoff between a cheap and dumb system, and a more
>> > expensive system with much more flexibility.
>>
>> There's more flexibility than you might think, as the tether can be
>> sped up and slowed down in various ways so as to both avoid "space
>> junk" and allow for some shifts in pickup times.
>
> I already thunk :^)
>
> But still, a CG/Thr craft can go basically anywhere, anytime.
>
> [...320G acceleration for 20 km tether...]
>> I think you've goofed somewhere. They are designing with a *2 g* max
>> acceleration criteria!
>
> Simple rotational mechanics. a = v^2/r. Do the calculation yourself.
You've ignored tidal forces (which are *not* insignificant in a tether
system) as well as the difference in orbital velocities at the low end,
top end and hub. And probably other factors. Check the web site.
> For 2G max acceleration boosting to Earth orbital speeds, the tether
> has to be at least 6400 km across.
>
> That, or there is a coordinated series of tethers (adding up to 6400
> km in length).
Nope. Look up the figures yourself. And argue with Dr. Forward and the
other people at the company.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 20:40:20 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: to satsify my curiosity
In mail you write:
> Matt Bond wrote:
>
>> Well apparently the USSR was seriously considering an unsupported
>> Airborne Invasion of Mid-West America in the mid-80's. Didn't you know?
>
> It's a plan. :-)
>
>> Remind me again where Poland is (or was at the time).
>
> Yes, but it wasn't very far in, though. I got thrown by the mention of
> "Central Europe".
>
>> Well a conventional war in Europe with nuclear escalation is far more
>> likely to bring about WWIII, than say, Bolivia and Peru having a set-to.
>
> Aside from Nixon ordering a strike, the scenarios that came closest
> involved computer error and the moon, or geese.
Your forgot "sunlight on clouds being mistaken for a launch plume".
That was a *Soviet* goof. Sep 26, 1983. Luckily, someone on their side
realized that a single missile launch had to be an error, and stuck to
his guns when the same satellite reported several more launches a few
minutes later.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 20:48:24 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Planetary mechanics questions
In mail you write:
>>From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
>
> Thanks for your responses.
>
>>One thing needs clearing up though -- is Regina's 80-day orbit
>>measured with respect to Lusor, or is it an absolute (sidereal)
>>period? I'm assuming sidereal in my calculations, which would make
>>the solar period 100 days.
>
> I don't know what this means (I was never an astrophysicist; I only worked
> in the library). How would Regina's orbit around Assiniboia be measured
> with respect to Lusor? I understood the 80 day figure to mean once around
> Assiniboia; that sounds to my lay ear like an absolute period.
It's a matter of what reference frame you are using.
For example, the solar day on earth is 24 hours. That's how long it
takes for the sun to return to a given spot in the sky (on average).
The sidereal day is how long it takes for a star to return to the same
place. It's 23 hours 56 minutes.
Why are they different? Look at it from "outside". The earth is
rotating at a fixed rate. From a distant star, if you could see Earth
from there) it takes 23:56 from the time a given point is closest to
you until that point is again closest.
But viewing from the sun, after 23:56 the same point *isn't* closest.
Why? Because the earth is moving *around* the sun. Due to that motion
it takes an extra 4 minutes for the point to get into position again.
There's also a "lunar" day, which is the length of time between the
moon crossing the local meridian. High tides happen at lunar "noon" and
"midnight" (in the open ocean, near coastlines the time gets altered by
the water having to flow around things).
> What does "solar period" mean?
Rotational period with respect to the sun.
>>The equation for circular orbit works out to
>>
>> rho (r / R)^3 = 3 pi / G T^2,
>>
>>where r is Assiniboia's radius, R is the orbital radius of Regina
>>about Assiniboia, and T is Regina's (sidereal) orbital period.
>>
>>Guessing rho = 1000 kg/m^3 (similar to Jupiter), I get
>
> What is rho (besides 1000 kg/m^3)?
Probably the density of the planet.
> What is G?
Newtonian gravitational constant, The G in Newton's law of gravity:
F = G * M * m / r^2
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3316
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3317
Date: | 11/22/00 2:06:28 AM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, November 22 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3317
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Technology Marches On: The Six Million Dollar Monkey?
Re: cybernetics
Re: Planetary mechanics questions
Re: cybernetics
RE: to satsify my curiosity
RE: to satsify my curiosity
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
RE: to satsify my curiosity
Re: Info on tethers and other "alternative tech"
Re: G:T Products
RE: BI-15 Dreadnought
Lishun Fleet
RE: to satsify my curiosity
RE: The future is now!
RE: to satsify my curiosity
Re: G:T Products
RE: to satsify my curiosity
RE: Government Code
RE: to satisfy my curiosity
RE: to satsify my curiosity
Re: Info on tethers and other "alternative tech"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 21:06:48 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Technology Marches On: The Six Million Dollar Monkey?
In mail you write:
> When I was at University back in '95 we had a guest lecturer in our
> Digital Control (for Mechanical Engineers) module. He was a medical
> research engineer from Oxford University's Teaching Hospital.
>
> He was talking about prosthetic development and asked for a
> volunteer. I stepped forward and he connected a set of electrodes
> over a position on my arm, and linked in a control box. He then
> proceeded to over ride my own signals and drive my arm like a robot
> manipulator, then operated my fingers/hand etc. A very scary feeling
> when you try to move your arm one way and it goes the other
> (especially when you're sober).
Scary thought for High TL:
You get a drink at the bar and wake up walking down the street, unable
to control *any* of your movements. You walk into a bank and hold it
up. Whatever is controlling you manages to make a clean getaway. You
wind up in an isolated spot, and drop the loot. You then walk off.
You get lucky and the police take you alive. And after they strip you,
they remove a small box and a network of electrodes from you, including
a "net" under your hat.
"Remote robberies" have been happening for a while, but they haven't
had any luck catching the criminals... Alas, local laws haven't catch
up with technology yet, and you are still legally an accomplice...
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 21:32:02 -0800
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: cybernetics
on 11/21/00 6:02 PM, Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:
>>>>> "Bionic man" type *strength* enhancements are flat out impossible. For
>>>>> two reasons. First, living bone is a *lot* stronger than steel. Or any
>>>>> "bio-inert" alloy yet found. Thats's because bone is a *composite*
>>
>> Only stronger per unit of mass, i.e. a bone is stonger than a piece of steel
>> of the same weight. Change that to the same volume and results are quite
>> different.
Can you cite sources? No offense, but on purely practical grounds, I doubt
this. I've crushed fresh raw beef bones with a hammer and crowbar, and
while the bones munched, I didn't notice any damage to the implements.
Tod
- --
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend"
- --
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.solsec.org
http://www.grandsurvey.com
http://travellerguns.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 22:03:12 -0800
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
Subject: Re: Planetary mechanics questions
Hi Glenn,
Next time you are over you are welcome to borrow my copy of K.D. Lang's
"Astrophysical Formulae." It may not make you an astrophysicist, but at
least you'll look like one. :-)
"Glenn M. Goffin" wrote:
> I don't know what this means (I was never an astrophysicist; I only worked
> in the library). How would Regina's orbit around Assiniboia be measured
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 22:18:50 -0800
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: cybernetics
on 11/21/00 9:32 PM, Tod Glenn at webmaster@travellercentral.com wrote:
> on 11/21/00 6:02 PM, Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:
>
>>>>>> "Bionic man" type *strength* enhancements are flat out impossible. For
>>>>>> two reasons. First, living bone is a *lot* stronger than steel. Or any
>>>>>> "bio-inert" alloy yet found. Thats's because bone is a *composite*
>>>
>>> Only stronger per unit of mass, i.e. a bone is stonger than a piece of steel
>>> of the same weight. Change that to the same volume and results are quite
>>> different.
>
> Can you cite sources? No offense, but on purely practical grounds, I doubt
> this. I've crushed fresh raw beef bones with a hammer and crowbar, and
> while the bones munched, I didn't notice any damage to the implements.
>
Well, I stupidly left off Leonards reply. Anyway I forgot to specify: what
kind of strength?
A quick search turned up this from www.britannica.com:
The fine structure of bone has thus far frustrated attempts to determine the
true strength of the mineral-matrix composite at the "unit" structural
level. Compact bone specimens have been found to have tensile strength in
the range of 700-1,400 kilograms per square centimetre (10,000-20,000 pounds
per square inch), and compressive strengths in the range of 1,400-2,100
kilograms per square centimetre (20,000-30,000 pounds per square inch).
These values are of the same general order as for aluminum or mild steel
Note the use of "compact bone" and "mild steel" (probably steels with a
tensile strength of less than 200 megapascals -- alloy steels have 2 or more
times the tensile strength).
Tod
- --
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend"
- --
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.solsec.org
http://www.grandsurvey.com
http://travellerguns.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 20:56:42 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: to satsify my curiosity
Rob Myers wrote :
> The scenario was regarded as believable by
> the culture that produced it, that is the thing that shocked Europeans.
Didn't shock me.
And I suspect it didn't shock any Europeans who knew of events in Europe
after WWII,
or after WWI, or after the Thirty Years war, or after the Hundred Years
War....
> I know it wasn't regarded as likely, possible, realistic or ideal.
I agree it wasn't regarded as ideal.
It _was_ regarded as likely and possible.
> But it wasn't a world ruled by giant intelligent mung beans.
Er, no, I suppose it wasn't.
> The Eurotheatre makes perfect sense on a diet of domino theory,
The euro-theatre made perfect sense to _anyone_ who actually knew the
military and political situation at the time.
> but European visions of WWIII tended to be a bit shorter
> than the American ones. Usually about 15 minutes, in fact.
Excuse me ?
All the books I've read on "WWIII" were written by Europeans, and WWIII was
not over in 15 minutes in any of them.
And I'm also a European, and I _never_ considered it would be over in 15
minutes.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 21:00:25 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: to satsify my curiosity
Rob Myers wrote :
> Siberia was purchased by the US from the Russians, IIRC. And the border
> used to look Soviet-wards. The military base wasn't there for fun.
That's _Alaska_, Rob.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 18:57:10 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
On Tue, Nov 21, 2000 at 08:58:28PM -0600, James Jensen wrote:
> But the result of that kind of fusions is a hydrogen atom and a spare
> neutron, as you said. These are the same componants that you started with. I
> thought that (quarks aside) protons, neutrons, and electrons were the
> smallest things in the universe.
>
> So, what is lost?
Energy. Specifically, binding energy of the nucleus.
The same sort of mass loss even occurs if you let a spring expand.
However, you would need *very* sensitive scales to measure it.
(1 part in 10^11 or so)
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 21:13:27 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: to satsify my curiosity
Cheng Tseng wrote :
> >How the Soviets were expected to move that many armored divisions into
> >attack readiness without _someone_ noticing is beyond me.
>
> Crap happens. Ask the Israelis about the Yom Kippur War sometimes.
Also, during the seventies and early eighties the Red Army regularly
scheduled
"exercises" that involved several divisions mobilizing to combat readiness
along the border, often near the Fulda Gap, the best place for a land attack
into Western Germany.
How do you as NATO tell whether an 'exercise' is a real mobilization or not
?
The Russian troops certainly weren't told whether it was for real or not.
<snip>
> >How anyone ever came up with any reason _why_ the Soviets would invade is
> >even farther beyond me.
>
> Opportunitism, for one. If they really felt NATO was going
> attack them, for another.
And the previous evidence of their invasions of Lithuania and Poland, among
other things.
> >All of this in the face of the clear evidence (from the Afhghanistan war)
> >of the limitations and weaknesses of the Soviet military.
>
> Assuming you want to take the risk to generalize from the
> specific example.
More importantly, at the time the Afghanistan War hadn't happened yet !
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 19:07:37 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Info on tethers and other "alternative tech"
> > [...320G acceleration for 20 km tether...]
> > Simple rotational mechanics. a = v^2/r. Do the calculation yourself.
>
> You've ignored tidal forces (which are *not* insignificant in a tether
> system)
They are if the radius is only 20km. They can never amount to more
than 1G near Earth anyway.
> as well as the difference in orbital velocities at the low end,
> top end and hub.
Negligible, for exactly the same reason.
> And probably other factors. Check the web site.
I did.
> Nope. Look up the figures yourself. And argue with Dr. Forward and
> the other people at the company.
I'm downloading the technical report (again, the first time was
corrupted) now. Hopefully it will explain how a payload can go from 0
to 8000 m/s over a distance of 20 km without ever undergoing more than
2G acceleration. If so, I'm sure such a feat will have widespread
applications in far more areas than just space travel.
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 03:16:21 -0500
From: "Anthony Colosetti" <acoloset@kent.edu>
Subject: Re: G:T Products
> Rupert Boleyn writes:
>
> > Well I heard that First In has a really non-canon suit of scout
> Well, it does, but it's not exactly a big chunk of the book ;)
<snip>
Actually I know that some don't accept DGP to be canon but there was stats
and illos of a scout walkabout suit in Issue 1 of the MegaTraveller Journal.
Since it was lumped into an article about Battle Dress I guess you could
call it scout power armor.
Anthony Colosetti
- ---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.214 / Virus Database: 101 - Release Date: 11/16/00
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 16:08:48 +0800
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
Subject: RE: BI-15 Dreadnought
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of John Groth
> Sent: Wednesday, 22 November 2000 11:01 AM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: BI-15 Dreadnought
>
>
> Antony Farrell wrote:
> >
> > During my FFS1 construction of the 700,000 dt BI-15 Dreadnought
> I noticed
> > that it carried a number of 1,000 dt craft.
> >
> > Does anyone have an idea of what these craft would be?
> >
> > Would they be a single type or a number of classes. SDBs, transports?
>
> The exact loadout probably is mission-dependent. I would design several
> different craft, including SDBs, shuttles (cargo and personnel), fuel
> skimmers, and carried starships. To determine the mothership drives
> needed to achieve the desired n-space performance, assume that all
> carried craft are the most massive variant.
>
Sounds good to me,well here goes!
Antony
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 00:24:56 -0800
From: "Jeffrey Yin" <jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu>
Subject: Lishun Fleet
MT's Rebellion Sourcebook has Lishun Fleet engaged against Dulinor in
Dagudashaag sector. However, Survival Margin has it placed still in Lishun,
engaged in "deep penetration battles" at the same time as the Dagudashaag
campaign is taking place. Where should it be? And, how large is the Lishun
Fleet? Does it include all 16 numbered fleets, or less? Are there any
references I am missing?
Jeffrey Yin
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 21:58:26 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: to satsify my curiosity
bruce johnson wrote :
> Old doesn't mean invalid. I believe Sun Tzu has some commentary on the
> folly of preparing for the past.
And many people have commentary on _not_ preparing for the past.
I think the most well known is
"Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it."
> _Only_ planning for worst-case scenarios is just as bad. We ended up
> with a 1000 ship navy heavily invested in capital ships, and a military
> structure designed almost exclusively to fight long, protracted wars
> against conventional opponents of equal or greater strength.
> Problem is, that really hasn't been true since WWII.
>
> Korea was a primer on how that wans't the case, Vietnam the graduate
course.
Pardon ?
Both of those were long, protracted wars against conventional opponents
of equal or greater strength.
The opponents were respectively China & Russia, and the Vietnam War lasted
longer than WWII !
> The struggles the US military has today preparing for, even
> defining their mission is an example.
An example of what ?
> The move today to alter the armor mix of the Army towards smaller,
> lighter, but less well armed and armored vehicles would have been
> unheard of during the 80's.
I'd argue that the modern US army is more heavily armed and armoured than it
was during the eighties, partially as a result of expenditure during the
eighties.
It's also lighter, but that's due to technology, the armour is both
"heavier" in it's ability
to withstand punishment amd "lighter" in the sense of actual weight.
> I suppose you're speaking of the Falklands War? In that case the RN was
> _hardly_ fighting without air support (they had their carriers with
> them), and they were fighting an opponent without naval forces that
> could stand up to them.
They were fighting against an opponent whose naval forces refused to leave
port.
The Argentinian navy could have been very dangerous to the British fleet had
they actually got involved, the RN would have been strecthced to enforce the
blockade if it had been tested, which is one of the reasons the decision was
made to sink the Belgrano.
> That the Argentines managed a ship kill was less
> a tribute to their strengths than to the unanticipated side effects of
> the post WWII world, where the sale of state-of-the-art armaments became
> a significant source of revenue for the industrialized First World. The
> RN hadn't prepared for an allies' missile (the French Exocet) being
> fired at them.
Actually, they had.
Most of the Exocets fired at the fleet were spoofed, destroyed, or just
plain missed.
That the Argentinians managed to fire any of them at the fleet _is_ a
tribute to their strengths, which was good morale and training on the part
of the Argentinian Air Force.
Those Mirage's were operating at the limit of their range and had little to
no loiter time.
What the hit on the Sheffield showed was that aluminium burns well. And
we've just had another object lesson of that in Austria.
> > Crap happens. Ask the Israelis about the Yom Kippur War sometimes.
>
> Israel did not have access to the intel assets that NATO did.
Yes, it did.
Read Yigal Allon's (Israeli military commander at the time) book on the war
sometime.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 09:24:31 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: The future is now!
I believe it would only constitute copyright infringement if I pasted the
entire article into an email and sent it to the entire TML. A summary should
be OK, as I'm just discussing rules changes. TML Lawyers please advise,
sincerest apologies to SJG if they consider it to be CR infriongement. I
didn't charge any money, or claim it as my own work. :) . Well, whatever, as
a disclaimer I'll point out that this is a discussion of the revised GTL
system which was written by Sean Punch. I strongly encourage subscribing to
Pyramid. If you do, tell 'em you were refered by deanjones and save me a
couple of months worth of subs ;)
GTL 7 features the computer, non-military lasers in TL 7 (military are
experimental and very big) and mature fission tech
GTL 8 is more heaviliy into the microsciences than space sciences. We get
longevity, genetic engineering, microscopic machinery, AI and fusion tech
(although technically we've had forms of fusion tech for a while, in the
form of advanced power plants and nukes, fusion becomes more mainstream...at
TL7 it's experimental, as is gengineering)
GTL9 is the basic nanotech era. We can expect sentient AI, mature fusion and
enviromental engineering (I assume this means they start using HAARP for
weather control instead of shooting holes in the Ozone layer :) )
Post GTL nothing really changes...after all, the original GTL progression in
GURPS was wrong after only 15 years, so no point trying to predict further
than GTL9 ( c. 2100).
The focus on the 3 GTLs above shifts away from space sciences and more
towards materials, computers/communications and miniturisation. Move from
the big to the small!
Power cells are discussed, as their energy-densities exceed subatomic
binding energies and so should be moved to GTL10 for realistic settings (ie
Traveller)
Current GTL on Earth (the developed world anyway) is early 8, as of this
year!
Regards,
Dean
> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Jensen [mailto:cheeb0@hotmail.com]
> Sent: 21 November 2000 19:02
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: The future is now!
>
>
> I don't subscribe to Pyramid. Could you summarize the
> changes? (If you're
> worried about copyright infringement, please email off-list. Thanks.)
>
> -J. Jensen
>
> Original Message:
> > Sean Punch alreay published a revision in Pyramid :)
> >
> > Dean
> >
> > > I would say that it's a safe bet that within five years, the
> > > GURPS Tech
> > > Level system is going to need a major revision.
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 22:37:33 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: to satsify my curiosity
Cheng Tseng wrote :
> SHEFFIELD had steel hull, steel superstructure. There was no
> major sources of aluminium. None of the Type 42 destroyers did, and the
only
> ships in the Falklands that did have aluminium superstructures were the
two
> Type 21 frigates.
Oh, yes, damn, fooled by the press again.
> 1981 White Paper envisioned the INVINCIBLE as being sold to
> Australia. Just imagine the problems that would have caused Corporate?
I though it _had_ been sold to Australia, and they 'postponed' delivery of
it to Australia in in order to use it ?
> >Damaged
> >HMS Glamorgan (Exocet)
>
> Have to hand it to the guys aboard GLAMORGAN. Maneuvering to
> take an Exocet hit on the stern, and *still* continue
> providing shore bombardment.
Yeah, now _that_ would make a good Traveller story.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 01:33:07 -0800
From: sneadj@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: G:T Products
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
> Well I heard that First In has a really non-canon suit of scout
> power-armour. That would count. As for per-parsec costs - I can live
> with things like that, provided it's noted that it is different from
> canon, or is done to make othe rparts of canon make more sense (as I
> imagine that would - for starters it's actually worth making high-jump
> merchant vessels).
Actually, a similar suit was described in one of DGP's
MegaTraveller works (IIRC it was called the Exploration Suit).
Such a suit makes excellent sense. Having a heavily armored suit
to go exploring on dangerous atmosphere high-G world (or perhaps
merely worlds with big dangerous animal life) is a great idea. The
suit won't need weapons, but give it good strength, moderate armor
and excellent sensors and you have something that is a truly
excellent idea for any serious scouting mission.
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 22:43:30 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: to satsify my curiosity
Dominic Mooney wrote :
> >No, it had nothing to do with aluminium,
<snip>
> That'll teach me to slip in that about aluminium, which is more
> appropriate to the Type 21s - ISTR that the big killer for the
> Sheffield was toxic smoke from the insulation on the electrical
> wiring, plus the fact that the ship had a single fore/aft passageway
> as a result of budget cuts in the design
And the man-made fibres in the crew's clothing, which melted and burned.
And the lack of serious firefighting equipment due to the lack of storage
space in the design
And that the Super Entards weren't detected until too late.
And...
Corvus launched from another ship took out the second missile in that wave.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 22:54:32 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: Government Code
Anthony Jackson wrote :
> > ------------------------------
> > dictatorship (dik'ta'tor'ship) n.
> > A method of governing in which the party of the first part (the
> > "government") takes full control of the rights and freedoms of
> the party of
> > the second part (the "people") and (often) suppresses those rights and
> > freedoms.
> > ------------------------------
>
> That's the definition of a totalitarian state, not a dictatorship (though
> there's nothing in the definition of totalitarianism to require oppressive
> behavior, they're just typically associated). A dictatorship is a form of
> totalitarian state in which the power is concentrated in a single
> person or small group.
May I point out that just because you have a dictator, it does not mean you
have a totalitarian state.
The original use of the word comes from the Roman Senate, a "democratic"
body )ignorig f or a moment how the the Senators were chosen, appointing a
"war leader" to deal with a problemmatic time, similar to declaring martial
law in an emergency in the US.
In fact the position of "Dictator" seemed more like a temporary US
president, he could still be discharged by the Senate, he just had
"Executive Power" so he could act quickly in dangeorous times.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 09:58:47 -0000
From: Matt Bond <MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RE: to satisfy my curiosity
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Frank G. Pitt [mailto:frankie@mundens.gen.nz]
> > >All of this in the face of the clear evidence (from the
> Afghanistan war)
> > >of the limitations and weaknesses of the Soviet military.
> >
> > Assuming you want to take the risk to generalize from the
> > specific example.
>
> More importantly, at the time the Afghanistan War hadn't
> happened yet !
Well, The Soviet Union had been in Afghanistan for 3-4 years at least
before T2K was released. In any case, I don't think that Afghanistan
reflects how the USSR would have faired in a conventional attack on
Europe.
There is a world of difference between a conventional war between two
standing armies, and a guerrilla war between an army and armed
'civilians', especially in dificult terrain such as steep hill's,
mountains, dense forest, and jungle.
The lack of decent road and rail communications in Afghanistan doesn't
help the logistics side of things either. Europe on the other hand, has
literally been *designed* for war.
Most of the modern road and rail network was consciously built with half
an eye on the movement of troops and logistics in wartime, a situation
that goes all the way back to the Romans.
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 23:00:24 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: RE: to satsify my curiosity
Okay, interesting though this is (and believe me I'm sitting on my hands
real hard not to join in), this is has strayed rather off topic.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 21:03:47 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Info on tethers and other "alternative tech"
> I'm downloading the technical report (again, the first time was
> corrupted) now. Hopefully it will explain how a payload can go from 0
> to 8000 m/s over a distance of 20 km without ever undergoing more than
> 2G acceleration.
OK, I've now read the report (153 pages!).
The mass ratio of tether system to payload is not 15, it is expected
to be around 200. This does not include the hypersonic (Mach 12)
suborbital scramjet used to carry the cargo near the rendezvous point.
The tether length is not 20 km, it is around 600 km. The stated
design acceleration of "under 2G" is at least close -- it is 2.5 G.
There would also be transient accelerations of up to 5 G.
Such a tether could handle one load every few days.
Yes, it is an important advance over using chemical rockets to reach
orbit (or escape velocity). However, it is very inefficent compared
with Traveller thruster plates.
Even if the tether was absolutely free, and the duty cycle was somehow
made to be 100%, it would still be pointless in Traveller. The
hypersonic first stage is a necessary component of the structure -- it
is what prevents such a tether from requiring Beanstalk materials.
With Traveller technology, the hypersonic transport would be capable
of delivering the cargo to orbit without any further assistance. The
tether would be redundant.
The whole reason for designing such structures is that chemical
rockets are very inefficient at reaching orbital speeds. However, the
space travel in Traveller makes the delta-V issues of real-life space
travel completely irrelevant.
- - Tim
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3317
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3318
Date: | 11/22/00 9:54:24 AM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, November 22 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3318
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3315
Re: Known Stars List (was re: H&E Temps)
RL cluster bombs
Re: To satisfy my curiousity
Re: Lishun Fleet
Re: cybernetics
Re: To satisfy my curiousity
Re: Worst games ever
Re: G:T Products
Winter War 28
[none]
RE: UV Vision
Jump emergence and Black Globes
RE: Planetary mechanics questions
RE: cybernetics
RE: Meson Communications
Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
Re: G:T Products
Re: G:T Products
Re: Worst games ever
RE: to satsify my curiosity
Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
Re: Technology Marches On: The Six Million Dollar Monkey?
Re: G:T Products
Re: UV Vision
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 02:17:27 -0800
From: sneadj@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3315
On 21 Nov 00, at 22:24, Traveller-digest wrote:
> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> Subject: Re: cybernetics
> And there are cases of "brain dead" people in comas "waking up". And
> with advancing medical techniques, that sort of thing could become
> more common.
True, but having no brain is a pretty clear-cut case.
> There's also the messy issue of the difference between a body with no
> brain because of a natural genetic or developmental problem and one
> where the brain was *prevented* from developing. The latter *could* be
> considered "killing" a sentient.
Hmm, I guess that would depend upon attitudes about abortion and
similar issues. Other than my assumption that I would suspect
that most Imperial worlds won't have a problem with such issues, I
think it might be best to avoid flam-bait and leave this one alone.
> Also, I seem to recall reading an article that seems to imply that it
> may turn out to be easier to get the recipient's body to accept
> foreign tissue as "self" than to get the foreign tissue to "ID" itself
> as "self".
Interesting.
> Here's a nasty that's possible *now*, and fits well with the "evil
> decadent nobles" idea some folks are fond of (actually *any*
> "hereditary privileged group works).
>
> At an early age (the first few months after birth, as I recall), you
> can transplant or inject a small amount of "foreign" tissue and the
> infant's body will add it's "markers" to its list of "self" markers.
>
> So you could take some "useless" babies and tag them as future donors
> for another "more valuable" baby. You don't even need cloning to get
> multiple genetically identical donors, just in vitro fertilization
> techniques that also exist now (you let the fertilized egg divide a
> few times then seperate the cells before they start to differentiate)
>
> By having the donors genetically different, you can avoid the worry of
> a donor taking over the recipient's life. You also get to replace
> things like organs that are failing because of genetic weaknesses with
> ones that don't have such problems.
>
> And the donors can be raised to think that they have a *duty* to give
> up organs. And they care excercised, get a proper diet etc, since
> their job is to make the body (note: not "their" body!) the best
> possible body for the "exalted one" (or whatever title the recipients
> use to distinguish their "superior selves" from the lowly donors).
>
> The Imperium wouldn't allow this sort of thing. But it'd make a nasty
> society for the PCs to encounter outside the Imperium. Or in the
> "Wilds" in a TNE or "recovery from the Long Night" campaign.
God's, that's twisted, I love it! Definitely the sort of thing for an
unaligned world located in a relatively low tech portion of space.
Start with having the PCs get to know a donor or having a donor
flee to them for help and watch the fun begin.
> Check out John Brunner's "The Pirates of Zan". A significant plot
> element is organ leggers selling parts obtained on a lost colony that
> they stumbled across.
Is this a novel? If so, it's one I've not read. I'll look for it
> > Steel might be weaker than bone, but what about TL 12
> > composites, or even superdense? Stronger than bone is quite
> > easy with Traveller materials tech.
> Yeah, but as I note below, it has to be stronger in *several* ways
> *and* biologically inert.
Still likely possible for any civilization that can produce
superdense. I would also suspect that all collapsed materials will
be pretty darn chemically inert.
> > if you
> > replace an arm with an enhanced prosthetic you could get vast grip
> > strength and a wrist which can rotate at 500 rpm and have no
> > problems. Both traits could prove quite useful in the correct
> > situation.
>
> 360+ degree rotation isn't compatible with any sort of "skin". And at
> the wrist, it'd make the fingers very weak. Feel the back of your hand
> as you move a finger. The tendons that connect them to muscles and
> anchor points go *thru* the wrist!
Why would a prosthetic hand even have tendons? With room
temperature superconductors (TL 9 or 10 tech) you could easily
make each joint a powerful motor. At worst, everything could be
contained within the hand itself. Most of the grip strength will
come from the larger motors on the knuckles, but that's where you
want most of the strength to be. The skin issue would be more
difficult. You would either need to go for an artificial-looking hand,
or plastic skin that could effectively be electrically unzipped around
the wrist. The later sounds reasonable with imperial tech, but won't
be as realistic as actually growing real skin over the prosthetic.
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 06:14:36 -0500
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: Known Stars List (was re: H&E Temps)
>Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 19:59:31 PST
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
>
>BTW, is 61 Cygni on the official sector maps? <eg>
1822 Nusku/Dushaam (AM6, p 28, _Imperium_ mapboard).
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 12:52:49 +0100
From: "Patrik Holmström" <glappkaeft@hotmail.com>
Subject: RL cluster bombs
>Anyone have RL figures for total submunitions carried by various
>warheads (and their mass)?
Sure. Here are some info on cluster bombs (excluding versions with FAE and
mines).
SUU-30 dispenser
CBU-52B/B Mixed 751 lb 254 bomblets (2.7 lb each)
CBU-58B/B Soft targets 800 lb 650 bomblets (0.93 lb each)
CBU-71A/B Incediary ??? lb 650 bomblets
SUU-65 dispenser
CBU-87/B CEM Mixed 960 lb 202 bomblets (3lb each)
Mk-7 dispenser
CBU-59B/B Soft targets ??? lb 717 bomblets
Mk-20mod2 Antiarmour 490 lb 247 bomblets (1 lb each)
Data comes mostly from the book "Airborne weapons of the west".
Patrik
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 23:38:07 +1100
From: "Jeffrey Michael Malone" <NarellePark@bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: To satisfy my curiousity
Very much off Traveller, but the people that screamed loudest in Australia
for unilateral Australian intervention in East Timor last year were the very
same that had sought to undermine the capbilities of the ADF for the last
two decades or so, on the basis that having military capabilites that
projected beyond our own shores was provocative and undermining of regional
security. All care and no responsibility.
To the c*nts that thought that then, and continue to think so now: f*ck
you. The likes of you never have had to live with the consequences of your
beliefs. Bask in the comfort of the security you would never be prepared to
provide.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 07:05:26 -0600
From: D Smart <dsmart@imagin.net>
Subject: Re: Lishun Fleet
Jeffrey Yin
>
> MT's Rebellion Sourcebook has Lishun Fleet engaged against Dulinor in
> Dagudashaag sector. However, Survival Margin has it placed still in Lishun,
> engaged in "deep penetration battles" at the same time as the Dagudashaag
> campaign is taking place. Where should it be? And, how large is the Lishun
> Fleet? Does it include all 16 numbered fleets, or less? Are there any
> references I am missing?
Given the amount of errata in MT, I'd just assumed two words
had been
left out of the Sourcebook: "elements of". As in "elements
of the Lishun
Fleet engaged against Dulinor". Nothing says a fleet can't
be split for
multiple missions and it's an easy fix between the two
sources.
David
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 08:21:58 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: cybernetics
>>(how does the brain interpret ultraviolet? Another colour? Just a shade of
>>blue? What?)
>
>As a hazy shade of winter, of course. ;-)
I was thinking a whiter shade of pale, myself.
Cheers,
Paul Drye
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 13:27:58 +0000
From: Rob Myers <robm@onetel.net.uk>
Subject: Re: To satisfy my curiousity
On Wednesday, November 22, 2000, at 02:22 AM, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> (Say -- Paranoia also
> postulated a survivable nuclear war . . . how come it wasn't a crime against
> humanity?).
Because it was funny.
(Long pause).
Oh dear...
- - Rob.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 09:00:31 -0500
From: Jonathan McDermott <caraig@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Worst games ever
>Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 22:45:54 -0600
>From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net>
>Subject: RE:Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
<snip>
>Or perhaps GURPS Apocalypse Now? I used to think of it more as a demented
>remake of The Wizard of Oz than as an Vietnamised adaptation of Heart of
>Darkness.
>
>"Kansas. Darn. I was still only in Kansas."
>
>Les
That of course brings to mind, "GURPS Kentucky Fried Movie"....
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 09:22:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Houghton <herveus@Radix.Net>
Subject: Re: G:T Products
Howdy!
Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Well, it does, but it's not exactly a big chunk of the book ;) A much more
> noticeable effect is that First In doesn't result in worlds much resembling
> classic traveller world generation -- habitable worlds are fairly rare, tiny
> worlds with breathable atmospheres just don't happen, and you don't wind up
> with any low-tech uninhabitable worlds. Whether you think this is good or bad,
> it is clearly different from traveller canon.
>
I think the book acknowledged that point and noted in a sidebar ways to
deal with it.
yours,
Michael
- --
Michael and MJ Houghton | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@radix.net | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
| http://www.radix.net/~herveus/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 08:24:44 -0600
From: Donald McKinney <dmckinne@amdocs.com>
Subject: Winter War 28
Time for my annual appeal for Traveller players and referees to make the
pilgrimage back to Winter War! We're looking for a few good referees and a
LOT of great players to come make Winter War the place to come and talk,
breathe and eat Traveller (however, the Hotel refuses to serve either Hiver
or K'kree after last year's barbecue sauce incident).
Anyway, Winter War is the annual gaming convention in Champaign, IL, held at
the Clarion Hotel (formerly the Chancellor) on February 2 - 4, 2001. More
information can be found on our website at
http://www.prairienet.org/winterwar/homepage.html.
GDW might be gone, and Loren might have moved away, but we're still playing.
DonM.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 09:25:02 -0500
From: "Walt Smith" <firelock_ny@hotmail.com>
Subject: [none]
Paul Drye wrote:
>This isn't quite what you were talking about, but I've read of an
>astronomer who had to have his corneas replaced back in the early days of
>modern cornea surgery. Apparently, the retina is slightly sensitive to UV,
>and the brain can interpret it, but the corneas block it out. At the time
>of this surgery, however, the material used in the replacements was
>transparent to ultraviolet light. So this chap became the world's only
>naked-eye ultraviolet astronomer....
>
>Unfortunately, I've never been able to track down an original source
>for the story, so I'm missing details I'd like to know (how does the brain
>interpret ultraviolet? Another colour? Just a shade of blue? What?) There
>also remains the possibility the whole thing is an urban legend.
In Stanley Lovell's _Of Spies and Strategems_ (his memoirs of
the O.S.S - the precursor to America's C.I.A. - during WWII), he
mentions the accidental discovery that people who had a certain
kind of cataract removal surgery could see UV light. Some of
these people volunteered to guide secret landings on the coast
of occupied Europe - they could see special UV signal lights
that were invisible to Nazi patrols. This was early 1940's,
so it probably isn't an urban legend.
Walt Smith
_____________________________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 14:29:43 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: UV Vision
>
> Paul Drye wrote:
> >This isn't quite what you were talking about, but I've read of an
> >astronomer who had to have his corneas replaced back in the
> early days of
> >modern cornea surgery. Apparently, the retina is slightly
> sensitive to UV,
> >and the brain can interpret it, but the corneas block it
> out. At the time
> >of this surgery, however, the material used in the replacements was
> >transparent to ultraviolet light. So this chap became the
> world's only
> >naked-eye ultraviolet astronomer....
> >
> >Unfortunately, I've never been able to track down an original source
> >for the story, so I'm missing details I'd like to know (how
> does the brain
> >interpret ultraviolet? Another colour? Just a shade of blue?
> What?) There
> >also remains the possibility the whole thing is an urban legend.
>
> In Stanley Lovell's _Of Spies and Strategems_ (his memoirs of
> the O.S.S - the precursor to America's C.I.A. - during WWII), he
> mentions the accidental discovery that people who had a certain
> kind of cataract removal surgery could see UV light. Some of
> these people volunteered to guide secret landings on the coast
> of occupied Europe - they could see special UV signal lights
> that were invisible to Nazi patrols. This was early 1940's,
> so it probably isn't an urban legend.
>
Anyone know of a sound medical reason (Rob, I'm looking at you) why one
couldn't *voluntarily* get this done (apart from the inadvisability of
having your corneas fiddled around with on a whim)? Cybernetics today!
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 14:46:47 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: Jump emergence and Black Globes
Quick question for OTU psuedo-physicists:
Can a ship be detected entering a system by jump sensors? How about if the
ship is using a black globe?
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 14:48:48 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Planetary mechanics questions
Kristian wrote:
>
> Next time you are over you are welcome to borrow my copy of
> K.D. Lang's
> "Astrophysical Formulae." It may not make you an
> astrophysicist, but at
> least you'll look like one. :-)
>
Wow, musician and astrophysicist, Ms. Lang is certainly multi-talented! :)
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 14:50:48 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: cybernetics
>
> Can you cite sources? No offense, but on purely practical
> grounds, I doubt
> this. I've crushed fresh raw beef bones with a hammer and
> crowbar, and
> while the bones munched, I didn't notice any damage to the implements.
>
Was this work-related bone-crushing, Tod, or are you into 'extreme
cow-tipping'?
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 14:55:18 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Meson Communications
> In mail you write:
>
> > On Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 09:37:54PM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> >> Black holes can ve *really* small. :-)
> >
> > But *really* small ones have very short lifetimes. The "millions of
> > megatons" energy would be a black hole with a lifetime on
> the order of
> > a second.
>
> Hey, we're using time dilation *anyway*... :-)
>
You ever tried accelerating a pin-head black hole to relativistic speeds? ;)
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 10:08:59 -0500
From: michael stasica <stosh@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> In mail you write:
>
> > At 02:56 PM 11/21/2000 -0000, you wrote:
> >
SNIP
> > Traveller/Metamorphosis Alpha. We mis-jumped, and came out in deep space,
> > then this big ship appeared...
>
> Traveller/Gamma World is almost workable.
I've run several Traveller scenarios and a few modules with FGU's AFTERMATH!
game. Does
that count?
Michael
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 10:28:22 EST
From: JFZeigler@aol.com
Subject: Re: G:T Products
In a message dated 11/22/00 9:23:47 AM Eastern Standard Time,
herveus@Radix.Net writes:
> > Well, it does, but it's not exactly a big chunk of the book ;) A much
more
> > noticeable effect is that First In doesn't result in worlds much
> resembling
> > classic traveller world generation -- habitable worlds are fairly rare,
> tiny
> > worlds with breathable atmospheres just don't happen, and you don't wind
> up
> > with any low-tech uninhabitable worlds. Whether you think this is good
or
> bad,
> > it is clearly different from traveller canon.
> >
> I think the book acknowledged that point and noted in a sidebar ways to
> deal with it.
Very much so.
The main design goal for the world-generation sequence in FIRST IN was
to provide the player with *options*. The core system is intended to be
"plausible," in that it avoids egregious violations of physical law. There
are a number of optional rules which allow the player to substitute more
Traveller-canonical items into the sequence as he pleases. Using all of
those rules you'd get a system that generates near-canonical results.
Meanwhile, quite a bit of space is devoted to the process of taking a
published UWP and fleshing it out into a complete solar-system
description, with as much plausible realism as possible. That isn't
always easy, of course, but it can usually be done.
- ----------
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty
set of people who will take offense at it."
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 10:36:15 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: Re: G:T Products
To jump in here a bit late..I think that Far Trader is one of the best of the
GT books...Many members of the list have praised its trading and cargo rules..
First In is one of my personal favorite books since I'm running a scout
campaign..I like the fact that it fleshes out Book 6 with adventure ideas and
two short adventures in the Spinward Marches..
Behind the Claw is one of my favorite books as well because of the detail
given to each world. Just enough to give a GM plenty of ideas for adventure
on each world..
To echo Jens post...the Alien Races books are great..if you don't have the
modules...but like Behind the Claw and First In..they flesh out the alien
modules with more detail and apart from GT:AR1...adventure seeds...
Like a sourcebook for any game system..You don't have to use the GURPS system
to like the book...another thing that has drawn praise on the list is Jesse
DeGraffs art work :)
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 10:49:09 -0600
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net>
Subject: Re: Worst games ever
At 09:00 AM 11/22/00 -0500, Someone wrote:
>>Or perhaps GURPS Apocalypse Now? I used to think of it more as a demented
>>remake of The Wizard of Oz than as an Vietnamised adaptation of Heart of
>>Darkness.
>>
>>"Kansas. Darn. I was still only in Kansas."
>That of course brings to mind, "GURPS Kentucky Fried Movie"....
"We are building figthing force of extradordinary magnitude, we forge our
spirits in the traditions of our anscestors, Doctor Klahn has our
gratitude, let's all give him a hand ..."
====================================
Revolutionaries are not nice people.
====================================
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 12:00:03 -0500
From: howard.anderson@psu.edu (Cheng Tseng)
Subject: RE: to satsify my curiosity
>Also, during the seventies and early eighties the Red Army regularly
>scheduled
>"exercises" that involved several divisions mobilizing to combat readiness
>along the border, often near the Fulda Gap, the best place for a land attack
>into Western Germany.
Sort of reminds of all the naval "exercises" the Solomani been doing. How
do you know it really is *not* an prelude to a strike to liberate Terra from
the "evil, degenerate, revanchist, corrupt Imperials"?
And even perfect information and intelligence is no guarantee that you will
get the intepretation right. Look at the Yom Kippur war, for example.
In 1975, a senior member of a respected think-tank actually asked the staff
if the North Vietnamese massing troops was intended to "send a message." At
the time, the NVA were preparing to take Saigon. Past historical evidence
and present actions would have made the answer self-evident, but that did
not prevent that sort of thinking.
I could imagine somebody in Santocheev's office asking if the Zhodani fleets
showing up in Ruie was intended to "send a message" as oppose to "prepare
for war against mind-dumb, paranoid, dishonest, untrustworthy Imperials."
C.T.
"Retiring student loans, one miserable cent at a time."
Cheng Tseng - Will econ forecast for food.
Search the Net and Make Some Cash:
http://www.catpile.com/index.shtml?refid=ctseng
http://www.searchcactus.com/member/welcome.asp?7024
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 09:15:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
> Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 19:55:25 PST
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>
> Is a 2:1 resonance like Mercury's long term stable? If so, it'd be a
> third solution.
Mercury is actually 3:2 (three rotations per two orbits). This can be
stable in the geologically long term. Tidal effects will gradually
circularize the orbit to the point where 3:2 is no longer stable, but the
keyword is "gradually". And an orbital resonance with a larger body in an
adjacent outer orbit could prevent circularization, too.
- --
| Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
--*-- "Here's to the struggles of the silent war,
| here's to the closing of the age." -The Call
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 10:42:21 -0700
From: bruce johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Technology Marches On: The Six Million Dollar Monkey?
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> In mail you write:
> Scary thought for High TL:
>
> You get a drink at the bar and wake up walking down the street, unable
> to control *any* of your movements. You walk into a bank and hold it
> up. Whatever is controlling you manages to make a clean getaway. You
> wind up in an isolated spot, and drop the loot. You then walk off.
>
> You get lucky and the police take you alive. And after they strip you,
> they remove a small box and a network of electrodes from you, including
> a "net" under your hat.
>
> "Remote robberies" have been happening for a while, but they haven't
> had any luck catching the criminals... Alas, local laws haven't catch
> up with technology yet, and you are still legally an accomplice...
Tell 'em to look for the penguin! ;-)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 16:52:04 +0000
From: John Wood <John@elvw.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: G:T Products
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> asked,
>A question about G:T products - which are worth having?
[snip]
>By this I mainly mean ones that cover subjects that
>previous versions of Trav haven't covered well, and do so without having
>strangenesses that don't 'fit'.
>
>BTW I've already got G:T (1st ed), and I've ordered Ground Forces on
>the strength of the quality of ACQ.
I have found useful and/or interesting stuff in all of them, but a
couple really stand out (my copies of these are already getting dog-
eared). You should definitely get
* Far Trader, because it has a trade system that seems to work (I also
like the certification rules, but they are less relevant if you're not
using GURPS rules). I don't like jump masking, but it's easy to
ignore.
* First In, for its world generation. Sure, if you do everything
randomly you won't get Traveller-like results; so what? I just take
UWPs generated normally and detail them with FI.
What about the rest?
I found Starports a lot more interesting than I expected. I'm not
totally convinced by the port generation rules (I can't seem to make a
port small enough to break even on a low-trade world) but it does give
me a better picture of how it all works.
The two sector books (Behind the Claw and Rim of Fire) have very
different styles. BtC gives potted descriptions of every world while RoF
concentrates more on the sector as a whole, with longer descriptions of
a selection of worlds. I prefer reading RoF but use BtC more.
The Alien Races books are all competently done; my favourites are the
Aslan and Hiver write-ups in books 2 & 3 respectively. If you have the
old alien books you don't *need* these, but they do expand on what has
gone before.
Being uninterested in combat-orientated material I'm not the best person
to judge the content of Star Mercs. It was well written, but a lot of
the stuff that was new to me may well be old hat to grognards. I've not
used it, but never expected to.
All of the above IMO, of course.
John
John G. Wood | john@elvw.demon.co.uk | Oxford, United Kingdom
IMTU tc+ tm+ tn t4(+) tg+ ru ge 3i+ jt au- st ls+ hi++ so- zh+ pi+ jd++
Traveller IS Forms, Gal2CC, etc: http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 10:51:07 -0700
From: bruce johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: UV Vision
Jones, Dean wrote:
> Anyone know of a sound medical reason (Rob, I'm looking at you) why one
> couldn't *voluntarily* get this done (apart from the inadvisability of
> having your corneas fiddled around with on a whim)? Cybernetics today!
Well, because the increased UV striking the retina would likely make you
slowly go blind, for one. This would only be med more rapid by engaging
in 'eyeball UV astronomy'. This is why people with these problems wear
really dark, UV blocking sunglasses.
For another, artificial corneas do make your eyes more susceptible to
infections.
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3318
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3319
Date: | 11/22/00 1:33:22 PM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, November 22 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3319
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Paranoia
Re: cybernetics
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3317
RE: Jump emergence and Black Globes
RE: Planetary mechanics questions
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
RE: Planetary mechanics questions
Cow Tipping (was: Re: cybernetics)
Re: Cow Tipping (was: Re: cybernetics)
Re: Radio Free Mongo Report!
Re: to satsify my curiosity
Re: Planetary mechanics questions
RE: Jump emergence and Black Globes
RE: Planetary mechanics questions
Re: Technology Marches On: The Six Million Dollar Monkey?
Re: Winter War 28
Re: Winter War 28
Re : cybernetics
Re : UV vision
Re: Winter War 28
Re: cybernetics
Re: To satisfy my curiousity
Imperial Holidays
Re: Jump emergence and Black Globes
Re: G:T Products
Re: G:T Products
Re: G:T Products
Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 10:20:28 -0800
From: "Bruce Macintosh" <bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Paranoia
> (Say -- Paranoia also
> postulated a survivable nuclear war . . . how come it wasn't a crime against
> humanity?).
Paranoia's world-ending disaster was actually technically an asteroid
impact against a peaceful computer-controlled world...
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 10:22:02 -0800
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: cybernetics
> > Can you cite sources? No offense, but on purely practical
> > grounds, I doubt
> > this. I've crushed fresh raw beef bones with a hammer and
> > crowbar, and
> > while the bones munched, I didn't notice any damage to the implements.
> >
>
> Was this work-related bone-crushing, Tod, or are you into 'extreme
> cow-tipping'?
Part of a demonstration of the effect of medievil weapons. Haven't heard
about cow-tipping since I left Spokane, WA.
Tod
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 10:18:54 -0800
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3317
Leonard wrote:
> In mail you write:
>
> >> >>"Bionic man" type *strength* enhancements are flat out impossible. For
> >> >>two reasons. First, living bone is a *lot* stronger than steel. Or any
> >> >>"bio-inert" alloy yet found. Thats's because bone is a *composite*
> >
> > Only stronger per unit of mass, i.e. a bone is stonger than a piece of steel
> > of the same weight. Change that to the same volume and results are quite
> > different.
>
> Nope, it's stronger *volume for volume*!
Your straw man is made of steel (or is it the other way around?) -- no reason
we can't come up with composite replacements for bone which are stronger.
> >, but
> > improving muscle could be disaterous if the underlying skeletal system can't
> > support the load.
>
> Yeah. Realistic version of "Steve Austin":
>
> Lifts car with bionic arm. And either the arm rips out of his shoulder,
> or his spine collapses. Ouch.
I think my favorite was when he used his bionic arm to stop a helicopter from
taking off without anchoring to anything.
- - Russell B
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 12:16:29 -0600
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <dasmart@avaya.com>
Subject: RE: Jump emergence and Black Globes
Jones, Dean posted:
>
> Quick question for OTU psuedo-physicists:
>
> Can a ship be detected entering a system by jump sensors? How
> about if the
> ship is using a black globe?
There has been a great deal of discussion in the past (with
remarkable few flames) on the list about a "jump flash" occuring
when a ship enters/exits jumpspace. What I've gleaned from the
discussions is this flash is basically an EMP pulse is detectable
but follows the inverse square law. Unfortunately, I don't recall
ever seeing a formula or table on exactly how far this signature
is detectable or at what difficulty based on range or even if the
signature strength differs with the ship size/displacement/whatever.
Any list members care to share their thoughts on these issues?
Inquiring GMs want to know; actually this sounds like a good FAQ
topic.
David
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 10:21:52 -0800
From: "Bruce Macintosh" <bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: Planetary mechanics questions
Kristian wrote:
>
> Next time you are over you are welcome to borrow my copy of
> K.D. Lang's
> "Astrophysical Formulae." It may not make you an
> astrophysicist, but at
> least you'll look like one. :-)
If you can afford it, the new "Astrophysical Quantities"
(fourth edition) is full of valuable astronomical facts.
Bruce
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 12:47:11 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
> > Thanks for all your comments. Now I know that the radiation is the
>_least_
> > of peoples' worries. And that nuclear war is probably _not_ as dangerous
>as
> > portrayed in "The Day After" (haven't seen it, but I've been wanting too
>and
> > it looks bad).
>
>"The Day After" was *at least* as bad as the "nuclear war will be an
>inconvenience" stuff from the 50s. Pure propoganda.
>
I was referring to the situation.
> > BTW, I read that nuclear weapons work by converting a small percentage
>of
> > the reation mass into energy. Which parts are converted, especially in
> > fusion reactions?
>
>It's the "binding energy" of the atoms that's released in *both*
>fission and fusion.
>
>For example, a hydrogen 1 atom ("protium") has a mass of 1.007825032
>daltons, and a helium 4 atom has a mass of 4.002603250 daltons. So:
>
> 4 H1 -> 1 He4 + energy
>4*1.007825032 -> 4.002603250 + 0.028696878
>
>BTW, if you continue fusing heavier and heavier atoms, you hit iron-56
>(mass 55.934942)
>
> 56 H1 -> 1 Fe56 + energy
>56*1.007825032 -> 14 He4 + 0.401756292
>
>14*4.002603250 -> 55.934942 + 0.503259792
>
>Note that the first step releases close to 80% of the *total* energy
>available.
>
>All isotopes from Fe56 on up *use* energy when you try to fuse them.
>That's why stars collapse and go supernova.
>
>With fission, the atom you start with is heavier than the pieces you
>break it into. The difference winds up as energy.
>
So it's a loss of energy, and so a loss of effective mass. I had assumed
that it was a loss of *matter* (for some reason I had equated mass to
matter). Thanks for clearing that up for me.
- -J. Jensen
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 10:50:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
Subject: RE: Planetary mechanics questions
> Kristian wrote:
> >
> > Next time you are over you are welcome to borrow my copy of
> > K.D. Lang's
> > "Astrophysical Formulae."
And here I thought that all she ever did was sing and piss off cattle
ranchers...
kirichan yori ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..." -- X-JAPAN
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 12:52:37 -0600
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Cow Tipping (was: Re: cybernetics)
"Jones, Dean" wrote:
>
> >
> > Can you cite sources? No offense, but on purely practical
> > grounds, I doubt
> > this. I've crushed fresh raw beef bones with a hammer and
> > crowbar, and
> > while the bones munched, I didn't notice any damage to the implements.
> >
>
> Was this work-related bone-crushing, Tod, or are you into 'extreme
> cow-tipping'?
Personally, I think that 15% is about right for cow tipping. 20% if the
the cow's service is really good.
Anything over 25% or so would be extreme.
- --
"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you
least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of
your unit."
-- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's
magazine of preventive maintenance
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 12:59:10 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Cow Tipping (was: Re: cybernetics)
> >
> > Was this work-related bone-crushing, Tod, or are you into 'extreme
> > cow-tipping'?
>
>Personally, I think that 15% is about right for cow tipping. 20% if the
>the cow's service is really good.
>
>Anything over 25% or so would be extreme.
>
Right. And cows wouldn't work where it's appropriate to tip more (ie. upper
class steakhouses).
- -J. Jensen
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 11:23:12 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Radio Free Mongo Report!
>From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
>No more suicidal than facing a platoon of grav tanks armed with plasma
guns.
>In any case, any member of the Mongo Secret Police would gladly sacrifice
>his life to protect Ming against the relentless rampaging rabid rebel
>rabble.
On reflection, I should've just passed the police car and concentrated on
killing tanks. The only weapons the police car had that could have hurt my
tanks were the nuclear missiles, and you and Kevin would not have used them
until you were desperate. Then I would have gotten to see one used in a
game.
- --Glenn
Now that I think about it, I did run a Traveller game once where commandos
infiltrated a city and set off a nuclear device in the water port. (This
was almost 20 years ago.) The game really revolved around them not being
found before the blast, and then fighting off the locals as they withdrew to
their extraction. This was where I really saw the effect of multiple tech
level differences. The PCs were in battle dress (I think TL 14, but I'm not
sure), and the locals were about TL 9. We resolved the withdrawal under
Striker rules. The PCs would usually just take out the least armored
vehicle with a plasma gun and continue fleeing while the locals recovered
from panic morale checks for being close to a friendly vehicle that took a
catastrophic hit.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 11:23:15 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: to satsify my curiosity
>From: bruce johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
>The RN hadn't prepared for an allies' missile (the French Exocet) being
fired at them.
I thought when I read about it that the British and French were still
fighting the Hundred Years' War by Argentine proxy.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 11:23:16 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Planetary mechanics questions
>From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
>Probably the easiest way to see the difference would be to think about
Thank you for these very clear explanations. These concepts make sense to
me now.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 14:30:56 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: RE: Jump emergence and Black Globes
>Unfortunately, I don't recall ever seeing a formula or >table on exactly how
far this signature is detectable >or at what difficulty based on range or
even if the
>signature strength differs with the ship >size/displacement/whatever.
IIRC in GT there is some mention of this in the main GT book...I believe its
in the space combat rule section...
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 14:34:23 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: RE: Planetary mechanics questions
>If you can afford it, the new "Astrophysical >Quantities"(fourth edition) is
full of valuable >astronomical facts.
is this good for us "non-techie" types? :-) I was looking for a good
astronomy book...I ordered World Building...It was recommended in a side bar
in GT: First In...
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 06:38:11 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Technology Marches On: The Six Million Dollar Monkey?
On Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 10:42:21AM -0700, bruce johnson wrote:
> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
> > "Remote robberies" have been happening for a while, but they haven't
> > had any luck catching the criminals... Alas, local laws haven't catch
> > up with technology yet, and you are still legally an accomplice...
>
> Tell 'em to look for the penguin! ;-)
Damn! I thought it was a rooster! Must have fooled me somehow.
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 06:42:53 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Winter War 28
On Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 08:24:44AM -0600, Donald McKinney wrote:
> breathe and eat Traveller (however, the Hotel refuses to serve either Hiver
> or K'kree after last year's barbecue sauce incident).
They don't serve K'kree? Here I was hoping to find out what they
really taste like ...
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 14:47:47 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Winter War 28
>They don't serve K'kree? Here I was hoping to find out what they
>really taste like ...
Are you *trying* to get multiple posts of the same joke?
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 07:16:01 +1100
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re : cybernetics
Leonard Erickson wrote :-
> Just keep in mind that a modern EEG is just as good as an NAS, the NAS
> can just detect activity in *distant* brains.
An NAS should be a *lot* better than an EEG (latter technology being
superseded by functional imaging, due to its higher sensitivity and
specificity).
> And there are cases of "brain dead" people in comas "waking up". And
> with advancing medical techniques, that sort of thing could become
> more common.
No. To clarify :-
The construct of 'brain death' has to be differentiated from that of a
'persistent vegetative state'. In any case, with advancing medical
techniques the definition of 'death' will continue to be revised. Again,
problems of identity arise.
In the former, brain stem (and higher) function is gone for good.
Spontaneous breathing is impossible, as the respiratory centre is dead.
Only the intrinsic rhythmicity of the heart and spinal reflexes remain
to control blood pressure.
It is possible to maintain brain dead subjects for up to six weeks
(probably more) with cautious attention to hydration, temperature
control and infusions of vasopressor agents ; this work was done in
Japan in the 1970s-1980s (when the concept of brain death wasn't
*culturally acceptable*).
People in persistent vegetative states have intact 'vegetative'
functions, hence the name - they can breathe, regulate their blood
pressure, body temperature and hydration status (fluid balance) and
absorb enteral nutrition more or less normally.
Of people in this state, about half survive the first 6 months ; about a
third survive a year. Isolated case reports therefore make the news.
Advances in medical science will deal with prevention and treating the
sequelae of acute brain injury, making 'coma' scenarios a thing of the
'medieval past', or shoddy ethics classes for medical undergraduates.
> Also, I seem to recall reading an article that seems to imply that it
> may turn out to be easier to get the recipient's body to accept foreign
> tissue as "self" than to get the foreign tissue to "ID" itself as
> "self".
This is sort of obvious - you are describing tolerance (recognised for
~40 years) and some magical biotech procedure respectively.
Tod Glenn wrote :-
> What about the survival rates of amputation due to phyical trauma? I would
> expect must higher survival rates in the case of amputations in otherwise
> healthy adults. I'm thinking in this case of amputations in the case of
> industrial accidents or war related amputations.
I wrote :-
> The survival rate for traumatic amputations is generally excellent
<snip>
To quantify, survival rates to discharge (often to a brain injury rehab
unit, sadly) in good trauma centres exceed 80%. People with isolated
limb trauma do very well ; the head injured require prolonged
rehabilitation, with best level of function often not attained for 2-3
years after the injury.
Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 07:16:09 +1100
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re : UV vision
Dean Jones wrote :-
> Anyone know of a sound medical reason (Rob, I'm looking at you) why one
> couldn't *voluntarily* get this done (apart from the inadvisability of
> having your corneas fiddled around with on a whim)? Cybernetics today!
>
Beyond the known risks of any eye surgery (haemorrhage, infection,
sympathetic ophthalmia in the other eyeball if you're only having one
done!), the obvious problem is cataracts.
Cataract formation would be greatly accelerated (the reason why you go
blind as Bruce Johnson pointed out).
Tumours of the conjunctiva are more likely if you're increasing your UV
exposure, melanoma being the worst of these.
There is also a theoretical risk of retinal detachment (suppression of
connective tissue synthesis).
The tissues of the inner eye are otherwise quite resilient.
Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 14:15:40 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Winter War 28
> > breathe and eat Traveller (however, the Hotel refuses to serve either
>Hiver
> > or K'kree after last year's barbecue sauce incident).
>
>They don't serve K'kree? Here I was hoping to find out what they
>really taste like ...
>
I can guarantee you, with a 100% accuracy, that K'kree meat takes exactly,
postively, absolutely, beyond a shadow of a doubt like K'kree meat.
- -J. Jensen
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 15:27:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: Re: cybernetics
J. Snead writes:
>Leonard Erickson
>>And there are cases of "brain dead" people in comas "waking up". And
>>with advancing medical techniques, that sort of thing could become
>>more common.
>True, but having no brain is a pretty clear-cut case.
<snipped>
Also keep in mind:
With advanced medical techniques more "brain dead" people
might wake up, but with advanced medical scans it will be
easier to tell whether they are likely to wake up or not. Thus
is will be less risky to "write someone off". Not that it will
make it much easier for loved ones to face such a situation.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 15:31:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: Re: To satisfy my curiousity
Jeffrey Michael Malone writes:
>Very much off Traveller, but the people that screamed loudest in Australia
<snipped>
>f*ck you.
<snipped>
Yes, very much off Traveller. We have a lot of off-topic chatter on
the TML, but rants like this are uncalled for. Please refrain from
this sort of thing.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 15:33:09 -0500
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com>
Subject: Imperial Holidays
I seem to recall Loren asking about holidays in the Imperium. I found this.
It's from an old post, I believe from the TML. The source is T4 (which makes
it canon, I suppose.) Rob Miracle's name is on it, so I would attribute it
to him.
Start quote:
The published calendar was 365 days. Day 001 was Holiday and was not part
of any 7 day week. The remaining 364 days were divided into 7 day weeks.
(Rob Miracle)
>>>Additionally, "Starships" (T4) says the following on page 5: "four other
days are recognized as Imperial-wide holidays, all of which fall on a
Oneday." Emperor's Birthday = 051, Empire Day (similar to the US Memorial
Day)= 114, Standard Religious Holiday = 184, and Harvest Revel = 282. The
text goes on to say that other localities may have their own indigenous
holidays.
The Imperial week in circa 1110:
Wonday, Tuday, Thirday, Forday, Fiday, Sixday, Senday
Holidays in the Stephon's reign are: Emperor's Birthday = 202, Empire Day =
114, Standard Religious Holiday = 184, and harvest Revel = 282 and of course
Holiday =001.
Traditionally appointments to the nobility are published on the Holiday List
(appearing on the first day of the new year) and in the Birthday List
(appearing on the Emperor's Birthday.)
End Quote
Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 15:37:37 -0500
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: Jump emergence and Black Globes
>Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 14:46:47 -0000
>From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
>Subject: Jump emergence and Black Globes
>
>Quick question for OTU psuedo-physicists:
>
>Can a ship be detected entering a system by jump sensors? How about if the
>ship is using a black globe?
Don't know about the first part.
For the second:
"Invisibility: Since a black globe field absorbs all energy, a ship with
its field completely on is, at any range over a few kilometers, effectively
invisible. In battle, this will have no effect, since a ship that suddenly
disappears from enemy sensors in this way will have its course predicted
with 100% accuracy based on its last known position and motion.
"However, the advantages to a task force that has not yet been detected by
the enemy are immense. Suppose, for instance, that a task force were to
jump into a system with its black globes on and its velocity set upon a
predetermined course. It could drift unseen past any defending fleet and
drop its screens at a preplanned moment, to bombard a planet or to engage
enemy squadrons by surprise. Further tactical possibilities are left to the
imaginations of the referee and players."
Book 5, p.43.
There are those on the list who can point out in detail that it isn't
*that* hard to spot a blank hole in the background radiation, but the
authors of High Guard at least thought it was feasible.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 15:43:23 -0500
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: G:T Products
>Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 16:52:04 +0000
>From: John Wood <John@elvw.demon.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: G:T Products
>
>I found Starports a lot more interesting than I expected. I'm not
>totally convinced by the port generation rules (I can't seem to make a
>port small enough to break even on a low-trade world) but it does give
>me a better picture of how it all works.
You're not supposed to be able to. That's why the SPA subsidizes small
ports from the surplus revenue generated by large ones. If you're looking
for a way to make a small port self-sufficient, you may have to raise
landing fees, charge a tariff on cargo (see Far Trader, p. 13), or settle
for sub-standard facilities.
Big flat concrete landing pads are considerably cheaper than "free-standing
bays" anyway.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 14:54:50 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: G:T Products
How compatible are the GT books with CT & T4? I'm wondering if they're worth
buying since I don't think that I'll be playing GURPS within the next, well,
ever.
- -J. Jensen
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 15:09:35 -0600
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: G:T Products
James Jensen wrote:
>
> How compatible are the GT books with CT & T4? I'm wondering if they're worth
> buying since I don't think that I'll be playing GURPS within the next, well,
> ever.
The mechanics are not really compatible (and, in any case, are a small
fraction of the material in GT supplements). However, many of us who
participate in GT playtests make a strenuous effort to ensure that the
material in GT products is usable in CT/MT/TNE/T4 games.
I strongly recommend most GT books. In fact, the only one that hasn't
impressed the hell out of me is GT: Star Mercs. Even that book is on
the "nice to have" list.
- --
"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you
least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of
your unit."
-- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's
magazine of preventive maintenance
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 13:27:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Bernie McGeehan <einreb62@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
I saw a module today of Alternity-Gammaworld at the
Compleat Strategist in Boston.
- --- Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote:
> In mail you write:
>
> > At 02:56 PM 11/21/2000 -0000, you wrote:
> >
> >>Could be worse...with cross-overs and varients you
> can create all sorts of
> >>monstrosities (eg GURPS Whorehouse 23) . Howabout
> a Traveller/Kult
> >>crossover? <shudder>
> >
> > Traveller/Metamorphosis Alpha. We mis-jumped, and
> came out in deep space,
> > then this big ship appeared...
>
> Traveller/Gamma World is almost workable.
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
>
=====
"I don't know much about what I like, but I do know Art." me @ the Rijksmuseum, Amsterdam (Terra/Sol 3)http://prattfall.tripod.com/index.html
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3319
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3320
Date: | 11/22/00 10:10:33 PM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Thursday, November 23 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3320
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: To satisfy my curiousity
Bionic Man
Re: Winter War 28
Re: to satisfy my curiosity
Re: To satisfy my curiousity
RE: G:T Products
RE:Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
Re: G:T Products
RE:Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
Antimatter
Re: Antimatter
Re: To satisfy my curiousity
Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
re: Cow Tipping (was: Re: cybernetics)
Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
Re: G:T Products
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: cybernetics
Apology
RE: One Year Anniversary MiniCon, part 2, featuring Striker PMS <long>
Re: cybernetics
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 08:32:55 +1100
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au>
Subject: Re: To satisfy my curiousity
> From: "Jeffrey Michael Malone" <NarellePark@bigpond.com>
> Subject: Re: To satisfy my curiousity
>
> Very much off Traveller, but the people that screamed loudest in Australia
> for unilateral Australian intervention in East Timor last year were the
very
> same that had sought to undermine the capbilities of the ADF for the last
> two decades or so, on the basis that having military capabilites that
> projected beyond our own shores was provocative and undermining of
regional
> security. All care and no responsibility.
>
> To the c*nts that thought that then, and continue to think so now: f*ck
> you. The likes of you never have had to live with the consequences of
your
> beliefs. Bask in the comfort of the security you would never be prepared
to
> provide.
Before dropping into a reply to this particular bit of exceptionally clear
thinking, I'll haul this ObTrav.
War is a rare thing in the 3I. The Imperium tends to fight a big war every
hundred years or so, and the internal 'conflict hot spots' are pretty much
known. If your world is a happy and unified place, then it's unlikely that
your military will be designed to fight wars as such.
It is probable that many militaries are specialised to the extent that they
are useless by themselves, quite capable of being an integral part of a
larger force - for example, a planet's military may specialise in EW, with
something like thirty 'independant EW companies' backed up by three
companies of grav infantry and maybe a battery of artillery. Rather than
trying to do everything, and doing it badly, they do one thing and have
something that the Imperium (or Imperial member states) will want to use.
The other thing to consider is that many historical states rented out
regular military units as mercenaries. Participation in UN peacekeeping
excersises can be considered a modern-day equivalent.
The Timor operation was interesting from an Australian defense planning
point of view, because of how little of Australia's range of defense
capabilities it used. There was no 'opposed landing'. There was no need for
the FA-18, or the long-range strike capability of the F111. There was little
need for air support. There was no use for submarines.
Basically, if you take pretty much the entire wishlist of the of the Hawks
in Australian politics and have it bought over the last 20 years, you still
get pretty much what we took to Timor. An aircraft carrier would have been
irrelevant. More warfighting naval vessels would have been of marginal
utility (OK, so more landing and support craft may have been useful). OK, so
perhaps we have a reserve in case the Solomons get worse (but I am reminded
of the old strategic dictum of 'One War at a Time'). It can be argued that
the small number of troops we could commit was actually useful, because it
forced a diplomatic startegy that maximised participation by countires like
Thailand and Brazil - Timor was not, and diplomatically should never be, a
purely Australian show.
The trend of the Hawks in the last 30 years has been to buy heavy-duty
warfighting technology rather than people. Equipment built for war is not
usually what you need for operations short of war - an example would be
language training schools. It doesnt matter if the rank and file can speak
the local language in a war. I think that matters a lot in a
counter-insurgency or peacekeeping situation.
Perhaps I'm just reading the press releases, but I havent seen the Hawks
arguing for lots of investments in the sort of 'soft' skills that you need
in a conflict that is short of war.
To end this, I'd like to give my best example of Australian troops in Timor.
A firefight broke out very near the border. It was a solid firefight,
between regular military, but the Australian and Indonesian NCOs on the spot
managed to get the shooting stopped after a bit. They then argued about
which side of the border they were on - the maps showed both of them on
'their' side of the border.
To me, this is an excellent example of 'soft' skills in action, to keep a
situation that is short of war that way.
Hauling this back obTrav, I can imagine an Imperial Marine unit where every
grunt has to take conflict resolution classes ...
Ian Whitchurch
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 13:51:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Bionic Man
> Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 10:18:54 -0800
> From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com>
>
> > >, but
> > > improving muscle could be disaterous if the underlying skeletal system can't
> > > support the load.
> >
> > Yeah. Realistic version of "Steve Austin":
> >
> > Lifts car with bionic arm. And either the arm rips out of his shoulder,
> > or his spine collapses. Ouch.
>
> I think my favorite was when he used his bionic arm to stop a helicopter
> from taking off without anchoring to anything.
Yeah. :) On the spine thing, though, didn't the graphics during the
opening credits show some structures down the spine?
The idea of augmentation/bionics being too much for the user to manage has
always fascinated me. In _Man Plus_ (Pohl) they're experimenting with
bionic humans to support Mars colonization, with a heavy emphasis on
nervous-system enhancement. An early subject gets enhanced vision, lots
of rewiring straight from the retina back into the visual cortex, and dies
minutes after coming out of anesthesia, screaming "I can see you!!!".
Turns out that the system bypassed a lot of filtering, and the poor guy
couldn't ignore any visual stimuli at all. Chilling scene.
One of the little details I like in _Ground Forces_ (borrowed from
Heinlein? Don't recall offhand) is that novice power-armor users
occasionally dislocate a limb during training. Yes, there are safety
overrides, but you also want the suit to let a soldier in combat try
things that push the margins. So you tell the arm to swing back and up
just the wrong way, and pop goes your shoulder socket.
- --
| Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
--*-- "Here's to the struggles of the silent war,
| here's to the closing of the age." -The Call
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 13:52:12 -0800
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com>
Subject: Re: Winter War 28
>From: Donald McKinney <dmckinne@amdocs.com>
>Subject: Winter War 28
>
<snip>
>breathe and eat Traveller (however, the Hotel refuses to serve either Hiver
>or K'kree after last year's barbecue sauce incident).
Awww...you mean we won't be able to get those tasty corn-dog thingys
either?
Rod Basler, COFIT
- ----------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer - Don't blame them; it's not their fault.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 13:55:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: to satisfy my curiosity
> Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 11:23:15 -0800
> From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
>
> >The RN hadn't prepared for an allies' missile (the French Exocet) being
> >fired at them.
>
> I thought when I read about it that the British and French were still
> fighting the Hundred Years' War by Argentine proxy.
Argencourt?
- --
| Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
--*-- "Here's to the struggles of the silent war,
| here's to the closing of the age." -The Call
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 15:07:02 -0700
From: bruce johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: To satisfy my curiousity
Katharine Whitchurch wrote:
> Hauling this back obTrav, I can imagine an Imperial Marine unit where every
> grunt has to take conflict resolution classes ...
>
> Ian Whitchurch
That actually makes sense, given that the ImpMarines are typically
thrown into hotspot in small groups. Even if you _are_ the meanest
m******r's in the valley, it doesn't hurt to be trained know when and
how to avoid a fight.
Bet they do as much riot supression and policing as they do combat, at
least until the Imperial big guns arrive.
Even a TL0 mob armed with rocks can eventually take out a TL16 marine in BD.
And if they're short and furry, well, look out. ;-)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 17:10:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: RE: G:T Products
James Jensen writes:
>How compatible are the GT books with CT & T4? I'm wondering if they're worth
>buying since I don't think that I'll be playing GURPS within the next, well,
>ever.
I am an old CT fart. The only GURPS book that I have is Star Mercs,
which I received as a gift, and I find it a good resource book for
mercenary information and ideas. I may be buying other GURPS
books for this reason.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 07:37:05 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: RE:Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
From: Leslie Bates
> Or perhaps GURPS Apocalypse Now? I used to think of it more as a demented
> remake of The Wizard of Oz than as an Vietnamised adaptation of Heart of
> Darkness.
>
> "Kansas. Darn. I was still only in Kansas."
Count that as a kill. To make it worse, you've got me thinking...
I'll stop thinking now, and just list some other bad GURPS games:
Illuminati Vehicles. Ford.
Wild West Bestiary Religion. Cow Cults. Moo.
Illuminati Wild West Bestiary. Mu.
Non-GURPS:
Kafer Toon. Characters spend their time hitting each other with sticks.
T2K Burrows & Bunnies Toon. "Be vewwy vewwy qwiet. I'm hunting Wuskis".
"Wascally Wuski Wabbit!"
(But I've still got to do something with "Kansas. Darn. I was still only in
Kansas." It's _mandatory_.)
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 07:28:51 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: G:T Products
> From: sneadj@mindspring.com
> Actually, a similar suit was described in one of DGP's
> MegaTraveller works (IIRC it was called the Exploration Suit).
> Such a suit makes excellent sense. Having a heavily armored suit
> to go exploring on dangerous atmosphere high-G world (or perhaps
> merely worlds with big dangerous animal life) is a great idea. The
> suit won't need weapons, but give it good strength, moderate armor
> and excellent sensors and you have something that is a truly
> excellent idea for any serious scouting mission.
The other gear you would use in this situation is the remote drone
(dumbot). The operator sits snug and alive in her ATV, while the drone
rumbles around in the chlorine. If you have at least two units, you can
send the second unit out to recover the first one after it breaks down.
Getting out and walking is the last resort. Of course, it might still be
necessary, (particularly for player characters), so Exploration Suits are
still a good thing to have.
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 16:46:35 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE:Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
>
>Non-GURPS:
>Kafer Toon. Characters spend their time hitting each other with sticks.
>
>T2K Burrows & Bunnies Toon. "Be vewwy vewwy qwiet. I'm hunting Wuskis".
>"Wascally Wuski Wabbit!"
Dungeons & Dragons Traveller:
This is Free Trader Greyhawk...
calling anything...
Mayday, Mayday... we are under attack...
mana drive is gone...
wizard number one not responding...
Mayday... losing hit points fast...
calling anything... please cure serious wounds...
This Free Trader Greyhawk...
Mayday...
>
>(But I've still got to do something with "Kansas. Darn. I was still only in
>Kansas." It's _mandatory_.)
>
"There's no place like Oz, there's no place like Oz."
- -J. Jensen
(And if neither of these end up with a keyboard kill, I give up... for now.)
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 20:58:50 -0500
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
>I saw a module today of Alternity-Gammaworld at the
Compleat Strategist in Boston.<
Its not a module but the 5th version of the Gamma World setting done using
the Alternity rules.
It has a few alterations to the background but it suffers from the support
adventures, including those in other sources, ignoring the rules in the
book.
Sam
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 20:05:49 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Antimatter
It just occured to me: In GURPS Space campaigns, and at TL 17+ in Traveller,
why even bother with carrying antimatter and matter? Just flood the drive
with vacuum, create the matter/antimatter pair, and extract the energy from
the ensuing annihilation? At high enough TLs, this surely would be possible.
(This might be why Total Conversion Power Plants don't require refueling.
With Cosmic Power you would just drain the vacuum's energy directly.)
- -J. Jensen
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 21:59:21 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Antimatter
>why even bother with carrying antimatter and matter? Just flood the drive
>with vacuum, create the matter/antimatter pair, and extract the energy from
>the ensuing annihilation?
The energy needed to create a virtual particle pair exactly equals the
energy you get when they destroy each other. This balance is the a major
reason why the pairs can come into existence in the first place. The
universe is basically hitting itself up for a loan....
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_____________________________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 19:07:57
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: To satisfy my curiousity
At 01:27 PM 11/22/2000 +0000, you wrote:
>On Wednesday, November 22, 2000, at 02:22 AM, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
>
>> (Say -- Paranoia also postulated a survivable nuclear war . . . how come
>> it wasn't a crime against humanity?).
>
>Because it was funny.
>(Long pause).
>Oh dear...
T2K wasn't funny? You never played in our "The Road to Armeggedon"
campaign. ("OK, who has to be Dorothy Lamour today?")
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 19:15:52
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
At 06:46 PM 11/21/2000 PST, you wrote:
>> GURPS Robots/Voodoo: "Come, my ancestors. Come, 6502. Come, Amiga.
>>Come, P6."
>
>What? No Z-80?
Say not that name!!! Aiieee!! The unintiated one will being the darkness
down on us all!!
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 19:48:48 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: re: Cow Tipping (was: Re: cybernetics)
>Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 12:52:37 -0600
>From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
...
>> Was this work-related bone-crushing, Tod, or are you into 'extreme
>> cow-tipping'?
>
>Personally, I think that 15% is about right for cow tipping. 20% if the
>the cow's service is really good.
>
>Anything over 25% or so would be extreme.
I'd execute the surgical strike on AuricTech myself, but we don't
have compatible combat rules :>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 21:51:01 -0600
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
>
> At 02:56 PM 11/21/2000 -0000, you wrote:
> >
> >Could be worse...with cross-overs and varients you can create all sorts of
> >monstrosities (eg GURPS Whorehouse 23) . Howabout a Traveller/Kult
> >crossover? <shudder>
>
> Just dug this up:
>
> GURPS Dada/Surrealism.
>
<<snip>>
As Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty list, I hereby award to Douglas
E. Berry the Edward O'Hare Award for five kills on a single sortie.
(Edward "Butch" O'Hare shot down five Japanese bombers in one mission,
for which he was awarded the Medal of Honor.)
http://www.westnet.com/~ssherman/usn_ohare.html
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 22:47:26 -0600
From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@mail.elc.net>
Subject: Re: G:T Products
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
>Rupert Boleyn writes:
>> A question about G:T products - which are worth having?
>>
>> I haven't really been paying a lot of attention to G:T for a variety of
>> reasons, but I've decided that I would like to expand my Traveller
>> collection, and as I can get G:T products without too much hastle I'm
>> wondering which are really worth having. By this I mainly mean ones that
>> cover subjects that previous versions of Trav haven't covered well, and do
>> so without having strangenesses that don't 'fit'.
>
>What do you define as 'strangenesses that don't fit'? Far Trader and First
>In are both excellent books, but deviate from traveller canon in some areas
>in which traveller canon is irrational -- for example, Far Trader uses per-
>parsec costs instead of per-jump costs in freight rates.
>
Actually, that was the main thing I *didn't* like about Far Trader -- I prefer (and am still using) the revenues and expenses from CT. Given that I don't run merchant campaigns, it probably doesn't matter much.
Anyway:
First In: Extremely good. It should be your next purchase.
Far Trader: Good. Despite the (unwanted) changes to the trade costs, probably good for merchant-oriented campaigns.
Star Mercs: Adequate/Good. If you burn the page with the commando armor, not bad, really.
Behind the Claw: Adequate. I didn't like the way Sword Worlders were treated.
Starports: Good. However, I don't know if I'll ever use the chapter on starport design, which takes up some 25% of the book.
Rim of Fire: don't have it (not interested).
Ground Forces: don't have it (haven't been back to the FLGS since it came out).
Alien Races 1: Adequate (Good for a Spinward Marches campaign). Best new races of the series
Alien Races 2: Adequate.
Alien Races 3: Good (okay, had the droynes, my favorite alien race)
A generous and sadistic GM,
Brandon Cope
http://www.geocities.com/copeab
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 20:43:11 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
In mail you write:
>>
>>In the D+T -> He+n reaction, the sum of the masses of the helium and
>>neutron are less than the sum of the masses of deuterium and tritium.
>>That's where the mass is lost.
>>
>>Although, it is actually true that in *any* energy-producing reaction
>>(nuclear or not), that the final mass is (very slightly) smaller than
>>the initial mass.
>
> But the result of that kind of fusions is a hydrogen atom and a spare
> neutron, as you said. These are the same componants that you started with. I
> thought that (quarks aside) protons, neutrons, and electrons were the
> smallest things in the universe.
No, the result is a *Helium* atom and a neutron.
But yes, you have the same number of nucleons as you started with.
Though some neutrons may have changed into protons or vice-versa.
> So, what is lost?
When you stack a bunch of marbles together, they weigh the same as the
did apart. In an atom, they weigh *less*.
The difference is the energy that you have to supply to drag them
apart. That's called "binding energy".
With quarks, the binding energy is *huge*. So huge that if you try to
drag apart the quarks making up a particle you get enough energy to
form a new particle before the quarks are seperated.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 20:48:28 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
In mail you write:
>>> BTW, I read that nuclear weapons work by converting a small percentage
>>of
>>> the reation mass into energy. Which parts are converted, especially in
>>> fusion reactions?
>>
>>It's the "binding energy" of the atoms that's released in *both*
>>fission and fusion.
>>
>>For example, a hydrogen 1 atom ("protium") has a mass of 1.007825032
>>daltons, and a helium 4 atom has a mass of 4.002603250 daltons. So:
>>
>> 4 H1 -> 1 He4 + energy
>>4*1.007825032 -> 4.002603250 + 0.028696878
>>
>>BTW, if you continue fusing heavier and heavier atoms, you hit iron-56
>>(mass 55.934942)
>>
>> 56 H1 -> 1 Fe56 + energy
>>56*1.007825032 -> 14 He4 + 0.401756292
>>
>>14*4.002603250 -> 55.934942 + 0.503259792
>>
>>Note that the first step releases close to 80% of the *total* energy
>>available.
>>
>>All isotopes from Fe56 on up *use* energy when you try to fuse them.
>>That's why stars collapse and go supernova.
>>
>>With fission, the atom you start with is heavier than the pieces you
>>break it into. The difference winds up as energy.
>
> So it's a loss of energy, and so a loss of effective mass. I had assumed
> that it was a loss of *matter* (for some reason I had equated mass to
> matter). Thanks for clearing that up for me.
There's nothing "effective" about it. Energy really *does* have mass.
It helps to remember that the energy "holding together" a collection of
particles is *negative*. That's why it takes energy to pull them apart.
You are supplying the "missing" energy so they can exist apart with the
proper mass.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 20:58:09 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: cybernetics
In mail you write:
>>Yeah, I don't think our brains are up to handling much more "bandwidth"
>>as far as "color" data goes. So you could go the "false color" route
>>with the full bandwith (T-rays to X-rays or gamma???) compressed into a
>>single "octave", and then "zoom in" on sections of interest.
>
> This isn't quite what you were talking about, but I've read of an astronomer
> who had to have his corneas replaced back in the early days of modern cornea
> surgery. Apparently, the retina is slightly sensitive to UV, and the brain
> can interpret it, but the corneas block it out. At the time of this surgery,
> however, the material used in the replacements was transparent to
> ultraviolet light. So this chap became the world's only naked-eye
> ultraviolet astronomer....
>
> Unfortunately, I've never been able to track down an original source for the
> story, so I'm missing details I'd like to know (how does the brain interpret
> ultraviolet? Another colour? Just a shade of blue? What?) There also remains
> the possibility the whole thing is an urban legend.
Check "Sky & Telescope". I believe the article (in the 50s or 60s) was
"Naked Eye UV Astronomy" ("ultraviolet" may be spelled out).
Sorry, I can't locate the file with the reference...
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 16:36:59 +1100
From: "Jeffrey Michael Malone" <NarellePark@bigpond.com>
Subject: Apology
To all, an uncondictional apology for my profane post. Alan was right...he
struck a very raw nerve...henceforth I shall keep my posts on-topic.
J.M. Malone
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 22:00:48 -0800
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: RE: One Year Anniversary MiniCon, part 2, featuring Striker PMS <long>
Ludowick@aol.com wrote:
> If you use 1 mm = 4 meters (25 mm = 100 m), then the weapon ranges aren't
> too bad (use 1/300th scale models). A gravtank moving 8 gameboard meters
> per turn now moves 2 meters. An effective range of 3 gameboard meters
> now is down to 75 cm (less than 30"). The models occupy a bit more space,
> but it could be worse. Striker itself has a rule for 1 mm = 2
> meters scale.
You are still left with one big problem: with Striker it's just too easy to
hit targets, even at extreme range. For example, in the TL 5 game we played,
I was picking off the Vargr tanks as they entered the board. At extreme
range you need a 12+ to hit. But to this you add at least a +2 size bonus,
and probably a +2 gunner bonus. This brings down the roll to 8+ or so at
extreme range. I'm not an expert on these things, but I'm guessing that fire
from tanks was nowhere near that effective in WW I (TL 5) or WW II (TL 6).
Similarly, in infantry combat, the die rolls needed do not reflect the real
world, where small arms is fairly ineffective past a few hundred meters.
> I've never even seen AHL. What is the combat system like?
AHL is basically a simplified version of Striker. I believe that in the
Striker rules they even say this some place. I'm sure that they recommend
resolving infantry combat inside buildings using AHL, so it's fairly
compatible. Everyone is high initiative and is placed on their own stand.
Concerning the Striker PMS, my take is that it's too complex for using in a
game. It's certainly more accurate, but Striker slows down enough when
weapons start firing. I don't recall games I played using Tractics having
this problem.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 21:04:32 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: cybernetics
In mail you write:
> on 11/21/00 6:02 PM, Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:
>
>>>>>> "Bionic man" type *strength* enhancements are flat out impossible. For
>>>>>> two reasons. First, living bone is a *lot* stronger than steel. Or any
>>>>>> "bio-inert" alloy yet found. Thats's because bone is a *composite*
>>>
>>> Only stronger per unit of mass, i.e. a bone is stonger than a piece of
> steel
>>> of the same weight. Change that to the same volume and results are quite
>>> different.
>
> Can you cite sources? No offense, but on purely practical grounds, I doubt
> this. I've crushed fresh raw beef bones with a hammer and crowbar, and
> while the bones munched, I didn't notice any damage to the implements.
You are confusing "hardness" or "toughness" with strength. A diamond is
hard, but if you hit it with a hammer, it'll shatter. Likewise, there
are a number of fibers that have much higher tensile strengths than
steel, but no stiffness to speak of.
Bone has a reasonable compressive strength, and a *very* high tensile
strength, as well as a a fair "stiffness" (I can't recall the proper
term for this).
Take a fresh rib, and a piece of steel with the same cross section.
Forces that'll bend, but not break, the rib will deform the steel
permanently.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3320
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3321
Date: | 11/23/00 10:05:58 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Thursday, November 23 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3321
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: cybernetics
Re: cybernetics
Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3315
Re: Known Stars List (was re: H&E Temps)
Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
Re: Winter War 28
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: The future is now!
RE: One Year Anniversary MiniCon, part 2, featuring Striker PMS <long>
Re: Antimatter
Re: UV Vision
Re: UV Vision
Re: Jump emergence and Black Globes
Re: Meson Communications
Re: Jump emergence and Black Globes
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3315
RE: Winter War 28
RE: UV Vision
RE: Known Stars List (was re: H&E Temps)
Re: UV Vision
RE: UV Vision
Hexpolar coordinates, update
Vargr in fiction
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 21:12:28 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: cybernetics
In mail you write:
> on 11/21/00 9:32 PM, Tod Glenn at webmaster@travellercentral.com wrote:
>
>> on 11/21/00 6:02 PM, Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> "Bionic man" type *strength* enhancements are flat out impossible. For
>>>>>>> two reasons. First, living bone is a *lot* stronger than steel. Or any
>>>>>>> "bio-inert" alloy yet found. Thats's because bone is a *composite*
>>>>
>>>> Only stronger per unit of mass, i.e. a bone is stonger than a piece of
> steel
>>>> of the same weight. Change that to the same volume and results are quite
>>>> different.
>>
>> Can you cite sources? No offense, but on purely practical grounds, I doubt
>> this. I've crushed fresh raw beef bones with a hammer and crowbar, and
>> while the bones munched, I didn't notice any damage to the implements.
>>
>
> Well, I stupidly left off Leonards reply. Anyway I forgot to specify: what
> kind of strength?
>
> A quick search turned up this from www.britannica.com:
>
> The fine structure of bone has thus far frustrated attempts to determine the
> true strength of the mineral-matrix composite at the "unit" structural
> level. Compact bone specimens have been found to have tensile strength in
> the range of 700-1,400 kilograms per square centimetre (10,000-20,000 pounds
> per square inch), and compressive strengths in the range of 1,400-2,100
> kilograms per square centimetre (20,000-30,000 pounds per square inch).
> These values are of the same general order as for aluminum or mild steel
>
> Note the use of "compact bone" and "mild steel" (probably steels with a
> tensile strength of less than 200 megapascals -- alloy steels have 2 or more
> times the tensile strength).
More important is the "bending" strength. That's where most of the
failures in artifical joints occur. They deform where bone springs back.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 21:14:18 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: cybernetics
In mail you write:
>>>(how does the brain interpret ultraviolet? Another colour? Just a shade of
>>>blue? What?)
>>
>>As a hazy shade of winter, of course. ;-)
>
> I was thinking a whiter shade of pale, myself.
Seriously, as I understand it, it just looks violet.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 21:16:37 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
In mail you write:
> At 06:46 PM 11/21/2000 PST, you wrote:
>
>>> GURPS Robots/Voodoo: "Come, my ancestors. Come, 6502. Come, Amiga.
>>>Come, P6."
>>
>>What? No Z-80?
>
> Say not that name!!! Aiieee!! The unintiated one will being the darkness
> down on us all!!
You'd prefer I invoked the pale imitation from !nt*l? The 8*8*?
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 21:47:31 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3315
In mail you write:
> On 21 Nov 00, at 22:24, Traveller-digest wrote:
>
>> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>> Subject: Re: cybernetics
>
>> Here's a nasty that's possible *now*, and fits well with the "evil
>> decadent nobles" idea some folks are fond of (actually *any*
>> "hereditary privileged group works).
>>
>> At an early age (the first few months after birth, as I recall), you
>> can transplant or inject a small amount of "foreign" tissue and the
>> infant's body will add it's "markers" to its list of "self" markers.
>>
>> So you could take some "useless" babies and tag them as future donors
>> for another "more valuable" baby. You don't even need cloning to get
>> multiple genetically identical donors, just in vitro fertilization
>> techniques that also exist now (you let the fertilized egg divide a
>> few times then seperate the cells before they start to differentiate)
>>
>> By having the donors genetically different, you can avoid the worry of
>> a donor taking over the recipient's life. You also get to replace
>> things like organs that are failing because of genetic weaknesses with
>> ones that don't have such problems.
>>
>> And the donors can be raised to think that they have a *duty* to give
>> up organs. And they care excercised, get a proper diet etc, since
>> their job is to make the body (note: not "their" body!) the best
>> possible body for the "exalted one" (or whatever title the recipients
>> use to distinguish their "superior selves" from the lowly donors).
>>
>> The Imperium wouldn't allow this sort of thing. But it'd make a nasty
>> society for the PCs to encounter outside the Imperium. Or in the
>> "Wilds" in a TNE or "recovery from the Long Night" campaign.
>
> God's, that's twisted, I love it! Definitely the sort of thing for an
> unaligned world located in a relatively low tech portion of space.
> Start with having the PCs get to know a donor or having a donor
> flee to them for help and watch the fun begin.
No, no. The donors wouldn't flee. That'd be violating their sacred duty
to the "exalted ones".
Have the players learn in casual conversation that a donor is going to
be donating his heart (or some or vital organ) in a few days. Watch
them try to talk him (or her!) out of it.
It should be at least as difficult as convincing a orthodox Jew or
Moslem to eat pork. :-)
>> Check out John Brunner's "The Pirates of Zan". A significant plot
>> element is organ leggers selling parts obtained on a lost colony that
>> they stumbled across.
>
> Is this a novel? If so, it's one I've not read. I'll look for it
It was half of an old Ace Double.
>> > Steel might be weaker than bone, but what about TL 12
>> > composites, or even superdense? Stronger than bone is quite
>> > easy with Traveller materials tech.
>
>> Yeah, but as I note below, it has to be stronger in *several* ways
>> *and* biologically inert.
>
> Still likely possible for any civilization that can produce
> superdense. I would also suspect that all collapsed materials will
> be pretty darn chemically inert.
But a bit heavy to haul around... <g>
>> > if you
>> > replace an arm with an enhanced prosthetic you could get vast grip
>> > strength and a wrist which can rotate at 500 rpm and have no
>> > problems. Both traits could prove quite useful in the correct
>> > situation.
>>
>> 360+ degree rotation isn't compatible with any sort of "skin". And at
>> the wrist, it'd make the fingers very weak. Feel the back of your hand
>> as you move a finger. The tendons that connect them to muscles and
>> anchor points go *thru* the wrist!
>
> Why would a prosthetic hand even have tendons? With room
> temperature superconductors (TL 9 or 10 tech) you could easily
> make each joint a powerful motor. At worst, everything could be
> contained within the hand itself. Most of the grip strength will
> come from the larger motors on the knuckles, but that's where you
> want most of the strength to be.
There's not a lot of *room* in the hand. And getting *leverage* tends
to require attachment to anchor points (which is what tendons *are*).
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 21:56:04 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Known Stars List (was re: H&E Temps)
In mail you write:
>>Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 19:59:31 PST
>>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>>Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
>>
>>BTW, is 61 Cygni on the official sector maps? <eg>
>
> 1822 Nusku/Dushaam (AM6, p 28, _Imperium_ mapboard).
Is there an unusual "gas giant" in the system?
For those not aware of it, Mesklin[1] orbits 61 Cygni A.
[1] See "Mission of Gravity", "Lecture Demonstration", and "Under" by
Hal Clement. Or grab the third volume of "the Essential Hal Clement"
from NESFA Press.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 22:01:08 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Temperatures
In mail you write:
>> Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 19:55:25 PST
>> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>>
>> Is a 2:1 resonance like Mercury's long term stable? If so, it'd be a
>> third solution.
>
> Mercury is actually 3:2 (three rotations per two orbits).
Doh!
I was thinking of the bit where the "subsolar" point is the same every
other orbit...
> This can be stable in the geologically long term. Tidal effects will
> gradually circularize the orbit to the point where 3:2 is no longer
> stable, but the keyword is "gradually". And an orbital resonance
> with a larger body in an adjacent outer orbit could prevent
> circularization, too.
Living on a planet with a 3:2 resonance would be *very* strange. But
hard on the GM, since things like the way the sun moves across the sky
depend on *where* on the planet you are.
BTW, I can pretty much *guarantee* that if the colonists had any sense
the prime meridian will run thru one of the two spots on the planet
that are subsolar at perihelion.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 08:22:51 +0200 (EET)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: Re: Winter War 28
On Wed, 22 Nov 2000, James Jensen wrote:
> > > breathe and eat Traveller (however, the Hotel refuses to serve either
> >Hiver
> > > or K'kree after last year's barbecue sauce incident).
> >They don't serve K'kree? Here I was hoping to find out what they
> >really taste like ...
> I can guarantee you, with a 100% accuracy, that K'kree meat takes exactly,
> postively, absolutely, beyond a shadow of a doubt like K'kree meat.
I think that K'kree meat tastes like chicken. Strange meat always tastes
like chicken.
And I don't forgive the person who started this. I began to think a less
respectable installation, where one could eat K'kree, or they could eat
you, or mayhaps do other strange things. Sorry.
- --
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 17:39:55 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> When you stack a bunch of marbles together, they weigh the same as the
> did apart. In an atom, they weigh *less*.
In a desperate bid to win "trivial nitpicker of the year" award, I
have to say that the stack of marbles also weighs less together than
apart, by a factor of about 1.000000000000000000000000001 (a margin of
1 in 10^27) for a group of 5 typical-sized marbles bound by gravity.
Not very noticeable, but present :^)
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 22:05:04 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: The future is now!
In mail you write:
>
> I believe it would only constitute copyright infringement if I pasted the
> entire article into an email and sent it to the entire TML. A summary should
> be OK, as I'm just discussing rules changes. TML Lawyers please advise,
> sincerest apologies to SJG if they consider it to be CR infriongement. I
> didn't charge any money, or claim it as my own work. :).
Contrary to popular belief, you don't have to charge money to be guilty
of copyright infringement. Just distribute copies without permission.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 22:52:09 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: RE: One Year Anniversary MiniCon, part 2, featuring Striker PMS <long>
On 22 Nov 2000, at 22:00, Luther Martin wrote:
> You are still left with one big problem: with Striker it's just too easy to hit
> targets, even at extreme range. For example, in the TL 5 game we played, I was
> picking off the Vargr tanks as they entered the board. At extreme range you need
> a 12+ to hit. But to this you add at least a +2 size bonus, and probably a +2
> gunner bonus. This brings down the roll to 8+ or so at extreme range. I'm not an
> expert on these things, but I'm guessing that fire from tanks was nowhere near
> that effective in WW I (TL 5) or WW II (TL 6). Similarly, in infantry combat,
> the die rolls needed do not reflect the real world, where small arms is fairly
> ineffective past a few hundred meters.
I seem to recall reading somewhere that a T-62's (TL6-7) optical sight could
get around 65% hit chances at 1000m or thereabouts, if both tank and target
were stationary.
- --
Rupert Boleyn
"Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 10:30:42 +0000
From: Rob Myers <robm@h2g2.com>
Subject: Re: Antimatter
Damn hippies. Anti-nuclear, anti-war, anti-matter. Yeah, sure, a
physical universe isn't pretty but it beats the alternatives.
- - Rob.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 22:15:37 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: UV Vision
In mail you write:
>> In Stanley Lovell's _Of Spies and Strategems_ (his memoirs of
>> the O.S.S - the precursor to America's C.I.A. - during WWII), he
>> mentions the accidental discovery that people who had a certain
>> kind of cataract removal surgery could see UV light. Some of
>> these people volunteered to guide secret landings on the coast
>> of occupied Europe - they could see special UV signal lights
>> that were invisible to Nazi patrols. This was early 1940's,
>> so it probably isn't an urban legend.
>
> Anyone know of a sound medical reason (Rob, I'm looking at you) why one
> couldn't *voluntarily* get this done (apart from the inadvisability of
> having your corneas fiddled around with on a whim)? Cybernetics today!
Well, aside from the fact that doctors don't like to do unnecessary
surgery on people...
1. It's the *lens* of the eye that is replaced in cataract surgery, not
the cornea.
2. They don't use UV transparent lenses as replacements anymore. I
think they had a reason.
3. Since the replacement isn't flexible the way the natural lens is,
you lose part of the focusing ability of the eye (of course, this
happens *anyway* as you get older)
Off the top of my head, I can think of several problems. UV can cause
retinal damage. Likewise, other bright light might be more damaging.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 22:28:08 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: UV Vision
In mail you write:
> Jones, Dean wrote:
>
>> Anyone know of a sound medical reason (Rob, I'm looking at you) why one
>> couldn't *voluntarily* get this done (apart from the inadvisability of
>> having your corneas fiddled around with on a whim)? Cybernetics today!
>
> Well, because the increased UV striking the retina would likely make you
> slowly go blind, for one. This would only be med more rapid by engaging
> in 'eyeball UV astronomy'.
The UV from starlight is going to be awfully weak...
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 22:34:53 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Jump emergence and Black Globes
In mail you write:
> Quick question for OTU psuedo-physicists:
>
> Can a ship be detected entering a system by jump sensors?
What are "jump sensors"?
Besides "jump flash", there should also be a *significant* burst of
gravity waves when suddenly there are several hundred tons of mass
where there were none.
This is likely detectable at considerable range.
> How about if the ship is using a black globe?
Well, you'd have to turn it on while you were *in* jump. And it
wouldn't affect the gravity pulse at all.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 22:41:06 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Meson Communications
In mail you write:
>> In mail you write:
>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 09:37:54PM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>>> Black holes can ve *really* small. :-)
>>>
>>> But *really* small ones have very short lifetimes. The "millions of
>>> megatons" energy would be a black hole with a lifetime on the order of
>>> a second.
>>
>> Hey, we're using time dilation *anyway*... :-)
>
> You ever tried accelerating a pin-head black hole to relativistic speeds? ;)
I can neither confirm nor deny those rumors.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 13:28:45 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Jump emergence and Black Globes
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> What are "jump sensors"?
Sensors that detect the electromagnetic pulse and/or gravity wave pulse
that are the result of a ship exiting jump?
I assume that normal sensors can be used to detect this. Seems to good a
cliché to abandon...
"Sir, unidentified vessel exiting jump space at coordinates [...]"
> Well, you'd have to turn [the black globe] on while you were *in* jump. And it
> wouldn't affect the gravity pulse at all.
IMTU, turning a black globe generator on while in jump would probably
disrupt the jump drive operation, likely destroying and/or misjumping
the ship.
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 13:04:18 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3315
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:
> > God's, that's twisted, I love it! Definitely the sort of thing
> > for an unaligned world located in a relatively low tech portion
> > of space. Start with having the PCs get to know a donor or
> > having a donor flee to them for help and watch the fun begin.
>
> No, no. The donors wouldn't flee. That'd be violating their sacred
> duty to the "exalted ones".
This idea was used in "Mirror Dance" (by Lois McMaster Bujold).
A clinc was growing clones for brain transplants ... the client
was cloned and when the clone was old enough the client's brain
would be transplanted into the younger, healther clone body
(dumping the clone's brain in the process). A merc group raids
the clinic to rescue the clones but one clone (a teenage girl)
refuses to go even though she knows her fate. It is her proud
duty to serve her mistress (the client) in this way!
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 15:04:02 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Winter War 28
Mikko wrote:
> And I don't forgive the person who started this. I began to
> think a less
> respectable installation, where one could eat K'kree, or they
> could eat
> you, or mayhaps do other strange things. Sorry.
K'kree eat Humans? They wouldn't last long amoung OTHER K'kree!
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 15:23:16 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: UV Vision
>
> Well, aside from the fact that doctors don't like to do unnecessary
> surgery on people...
Are you kidding me? Apart from burn victims, when is cosmetic surgery ever
necessary? Apart from sufferers of acute ugliness, of course.
>
> 1. It's the *lens* of the eye that is replaced in cataract
> surgery, not
> the cornea.
Oh well.
> 2. They don't use UV transparent lenses as replacements anymore. I
> think they had a reason.
UV damage to retina? Overabundence of nightstalking vigilante heros in the
40s? It allowed ordinary people to see the FNORDs? Damn, just call me Ken!
;)
> 3. Since the replacement isn't flexible the way the natural lens is,
> you lose part of the focusing ability of the eye (of course, this
> happens *anyway* as you get older)
Given modern (and I mean now, rather than 3I) material tech we could
probably produce something that allows all that to be circumvented. Maybe
lenses raplacements aren't necessary...TL8/9 could bring us lowlight contact
lenses! We could probably get around the UV damage problem by using a
material that shifts the UV down a touch into the violet end of the visible
spectrum. As a bonus, maybe your eyes'd glow in the dark!
>
> Off the top of my head, I can think of several problems. UV can cause
> retinal damage. Likewise, other bright light might be more damaging.
So we'd have to limit the amout of light that was down-shifted to visible.
No problem, narrow the range of freqencies affected.
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 15:25:24 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Known Stars List (was re: H&E Temps)
Leonard wrote:
> >>
> >>BTW, is 61 Cygni on the official sector maps? <eg>
> >
> > 1822 Nusku/Dushaam (AM6, p 28, _Imperium_ mapboard).
>
> Is there an unusual "gas giant" in the system?
>
> For those not aware of it, Mesklin[1] orbits 61 Cygni A.
>
> [1] See "Mission of Gravity", "Lecture Demonstration", and "Under" by
> Hal Clement. Or grab the third volume of "the Essential Hal Clement"
> from NESFA Press.
>
I got no problem with recommended reading, and I'll probably check it out.
But could you tell us what you're talking about anyway?
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 10:30:38 EST
From: JFZeigler@aol.com
Subject: Re: UV Vision
In a message dated 11/23/00 10:28:14 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com writes:
> Are you kidding me? Apart from burn victims, when is cosmetic surgery ever
> necessary? Apart from sufferers of acute ugliness, of course.
Surgery to repair birth defects like cleft palate and hare-lip are
sometimes considered "cosmetic." I think people who suffer
such birth defects usually consider their repair to be "necessary."
Certainly I did.
Nice display of tact, by the way.
- ----------
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty
set of people who will take offense at it."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 15:33:12 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: UV Vision
>
> In a message dated 11/23/00 10:28:14 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com writes:
>
> > Are you kidding me? Apart from burn victims, when is
> cosmetic surgery ever
> > necessary? Apart from sufferers of acute ugliness, of course.
>
> Surgery to repair birth defects like cleft palate and hare-lip are
> sometimes considered "cosmetic." I think people who suffer
> such birth defects usually consider their repair to be "necessary."
> Certainly I did.
>
> Nice display of tact, by the way.
>
Apologies. Quite correct...tactless and quite thoughtless. Red-faced with
shame now.
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 16:57:51 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Hexpolar coordinates, update
My brain is slowly melting, but I am beginning to sort the distance
thing out now.
When divided into six "hexrants" (quadrants, but six of them), things
become a lot easier to visualize.
Basically, there are six different cases:
1) The two points are the same. Distance is zero.
2) One of the points is the point of origin. Distance is the radius of
the other point.
3) The two points are is opposite hexrants. The distance is the sum of
the radii.
4) The two points are in the same hexrant. *unsolved*
5) The two points are in bordering hexrants. *unsolved*
6) One of the points is in a hexrant bordering the hexrant opposite to
the other point. The distance is somewhere between the sum of the radii
and the largest radius, but I don't quite have the formula yet. *work in
progress*
Any ideas, comments, or corrections are more than welcome ;-)
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 13:03:14 EST
From: JDoch226@aol.com
Subject: Vargr in fiction
Can anyone recommend some sf titles with a Vargr-like culture, especially
from a military point of view?
Thanks,
Jed Docherty
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3321
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3322
Date: | 11/23/00 2:43:47 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Thursday, November 23 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3322
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Vargr in fiction
Re: Vargr in fiction
Vargr in fiction
RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
RE: UV Vision
Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: UV Vision
Re: Jump emergence and Black Globes
Re: Vargr in fiction
Re: UV Vision
Re: UV Vision
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE
Thanks, Everybody
Thanks, Everybody
Re: Meson Communications
RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 14:13:47 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE
In a message dated 11/16/00 1:37:29 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
webmaster@travellercentral.com writes:
<< To which I can only reply: come on down, and we will explain the second
amendment to you. We have already created a tagging system for lobsterbacks,
so that they won't be hunted out in one season.
>>
F*****g A Bubba!!!!...:-)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 13:52:11 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
>In a desperate bid to win "trivial nitpicker of the year" award, I
>have to say that the stack of marbles also weighs less together than
>apart, by a factor of about 1.000000000000000000000000001 (a margin of
>1 in 10^27) for a group of 5 typical-sized marbles bound by gravity.
Actually, the margin would be 1 in 10^-27.
- -J. Jensen
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 15:42:49 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re: Vargr in fiction
JDoch226@aol.com asks:
>Can anyone recommend some sf titles with a Vargr-like culture, especially
>from a military point of view?
>Thanks,
>Jed Docherty
>
Not sure I know of any in the mainstream. Highly variable governance due to
personal charisma is best observed by watching US Presidential Election
campaigns, or any of the more chaotic pariamentary governments around the
world. The same thing at a personal level can be gleaned from the
fictionalized versions of the American branches of organized crime (start
with "The Godfather").
As far as actual bipedal wolf societies, most of this is concentrated in the
Furry community, and they aren't nearly as concerned with culture (at least
not the definition you're using) as with other things...
GC
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 12:44:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Vargr in fiction
"The Dogs of War?"
- --- JDoch226@aol.com wrote:
> Can anyone recommend some sf titles with a Vargr-like culture,
> especially
> from a military point of view?
> Thanks,
> Jed Docherty
=====
Gerry Harris
**********************************************************************************************
Æther Traveller — http://www.aethertraveller.com
Soldier's Companion — http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html
**********************************************************************************************
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war" — Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1
**********************************************************************************************
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 20:44:09 -0000
From: "Nick Wright" <nick@corlecca.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Vargr in fiction
Jed Docherty wrote:
>
>Can anyone recommend some sf titles with a Vargr-like culture, especially
>from a military point of view?
>Thanks,
Got to be
Dogs of War
<duck>
Nick Wright
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 20:29:45 -0000
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
In fission or fusion, matter is neither gained nor lost at the "grand
scale" of neutrons, protons and electrons. They just get "shuffled
around" to new configurations. In both, what is "lost" is the binding
energy of the nucleus that undergoes the change - which is where the
"loss of mass" takes place. Mainly what is thought to be "lost" - or
converted to energy, anyway - is the as yet unproven "Higgs boson".
I have no idea how "The Day After" portrays nuclear war - I'm not
familiar with the name and know nothing aboout the film - but the idea
that nuclear war could be described as in any way or form as "not ...
dangerous" is just crazy. The primary source of current Earth
conditions is energy and energetic transformations are the major
source of all the changes to the conditions on the planet. When the
meteor hit that wiped out the dinosaurs, it did so with a force of
around 1,000 Hiroshima-type nuclear bombs. That's equivalent to a 500
MTon device and is tiny compared to what is available in the world
today. By any measure, a nuclear war involving a significant
proportion of the world's nuclear devices is a world-killer.
- --
Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK
Email : mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk
Website : www.mpreston.demon.co.uk
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of James Jensen
> Sent: 22 November 2000 01:08
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
>
>
> Thanks for all your comments. Now I know that the radiation
> is the _least_
> of peoples' worries. And that nuclear war is probably _not_
> as dangerous as
> portrayed in "The Day After" (haven't seen it, but I've
> been wanting too and
> it looks bad).
>
> BTW, I read that nuclear weapons work by converting a small
> percentage of
> the reation mass into energy. Which parts are converted,
> especially in
> fusion reactions?
>
> -J. Jensen
> ____________________________________________________________
> _________________________
> Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
> http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 12:57:36 -0800
From: sneadj@mindspring.com
Subject: RE: UV Vision
"Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
> > 3. Since the replacement isn't flexible the way the natural lens is,
> > you lose part of the focusing ability of the eye (of course, this
> > happens *anyway* as you get older)
>
> Given modern (and I mean now, rather than 3I) material tech we could
> probably produce something that allows all that to be circumvented.
Now, no, not yet. By the 3I, almost certainly. However, if I wanted
to use TL12+ tech to see UV light I'd do it very differently. I'd go for
a series of chemical or tailored viral injections designed to turn the
lens of my eye transparent to UV light. This is likely not easy, but
is presumably possible.
To avoid UV damage you then:
1) Wear UV photogrey contact lenses that block UV light above a
certain intensity.
2) Have a similar viral or chemical treatment of you retinas to allow
them to endure higher levels of UV (this seems unlikely, but might
be possible).
3) Make the lens of your eye effectively UV photogrey, so that it
will only let low levels of UV through.
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 13:19:51
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
At 09:16 PM 11/22/2000 PST, you wrote:
>In mail you write:
>>>What? No Z-80?
>>
>> Say not that name!!! Aiieee!! The unintiated one will being the darkness
>> down on us all!!
>
>You'd prefer I invoked the pale imitation from !nt*l? The 8*8*?
Hi. This reply would be from penguin boy, but he accidentally spoke my
name while reading this post, as is now a smoking pile of greasy ashes.
And I've possessed all your systems.
You can call me... Virus.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 13:25:17
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
At 09:51 PM 11/22/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>As Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty list, I hereby award to Douglas
>E. Berry the Edward O'Hare Award for five kills on a single sortie.
You like me, you really like me!
I'd like to thank the acad.. err.. the guy who gives out these awards, and
assure the viewing public that John's prominent placement in GF had nothing
to do with my getting this award. There was no pregnant or hanging chad
involved.
- --
Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"Penguin Boy, Righter of wrongs, hero to millions, &
friend to Flash Gordon." - Legate Legion on the TML
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 08:39:15 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
On Thu, Nov 23, 2000 at 08:29:45PM -0000, Mark Preston wrote:
> When the meteor hit that wiped out the dinosaurs, it did so with a
> force of around 1,000 Hiroshima-type nuclear bombs.
I had thought that the estimate was a 10 km impactor hitting with a
kinetic energy on the order of 10^23 J, which is roughly 1,000,000,000
Hiroshima-type bombs, or 20,000,000 megatons TNT.
The world's total nuclear weapon yield is estimated at around 1/1000th
of that. Evidence of smaller, more frequent impacts (with energies on
the order of the nuclear weapon yield) have been found, but do not
appear to be correlated with global extinction events in the fossil
record.
That's not to say that a nuclear war would be pleasant.
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 09:02:56 +1100
From: Robert Houghton <rhoughto@one.net.au>
Subject: Re: UV Vision
<snip>
> > 3. Since the replacement isn't flexible the way the natural lens is,
> > you lose part of the focusing ability of the eye (of course, this
> > happens *anyway* as you get older)
>
> Given modern (and I mean now, rather than 3I) material tech we could
> probably produce something that allows all that to be circumvented. Maybe
> lenses raplacements aren't necessary...TL8/9 could bring us lowlight contact
> lenses! We could probably get around the UV damage problem by using a
> material that shifts the UV down a touch into the violet end of the visible
> spectrum. As a bonus, maybe your eyes'd glow in the dark!
>
>
I seem to remember seeing an article somewhere...might have been New
Scientist...about something like these already existing...not true LI but like a
good set of night binoculars...sorta like Owl Eyes...
Other Rob
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 08:52:38 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Jump emergence and Black Globes
On Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 10:34:53PM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
> Besides "jump flash", there should also be a *significant* burst of
> gravity waves when suddenly there are several hundred tons of mass
> where there were none.
>
> This is likely detectable at considerable range.
Yes, very likely. I'd do some calculations, but alas GR assumes these
pesky conservation laws that get broken by jump. Given that
gravitational disturbances propogate at c, it is obvious that there
must be some sort of gravity wave. Not the normal quadropole
radiation though, it would be monopole radiation. Hmm -- I'll see if
I can do some rough calculations with a perturbative model.
The other side of the question concerns how good the sensors are.
Presumably better than current Earth technology, although carrying
such sensors on a starship would limit their size and stability.
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 22:58:26 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Vargr in fiction
GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:
> Not sure I know of any in the mainstream. Highly variable governance due to
> personal charisma is best observed by watching US Presidential Election
> campaigns,
Absolutely, although the physical contact part (shaking hands for
humans) would be even more important for Vargr...
> or any of the more chaotic pariamentary governments around the world.
MORE chaotic? Not in any of the parliamentary governments I know of...
;-)
> The same thing at a personal level can be gleaned from the
> fictionalized versions of the American branches of organized crime (start
> with "The Godfather").
There would be a lot of pack mentality in Vargr warfare as well. View
any blacksploitation movie with street gangs in it. "They got our
Brother! Revenge!"
Come to think of it, blacksploitation movies in general are probably a
good way of getting a feel for Vargr status in the Third Imperium.
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 13:46:24 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: UV Vision
In mail you write:
> In a message dated 11/23/00 10:28:14 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com writes:
>
>> Are you kidding me? Apart from burn victims, when is cosmetic surgery ever
>> necessary? Apart from sufferers of acute ugliness, of course.
Try folks who've had *any* accident that damaged or removed a large
chunk of skin and underlying tissues, especially around the face.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 13:49:50 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: UV Vision
In mail you write:
>
>>
>> Well, aside from the fact that doctors don't like to do unnecessary
>> surgery on people...
>
> Are you kidding me? Apart from burn victims, when is cosmetic surgery ever
> necessary? Apart from sufferers of acute ugliness, of course.
Even there, they aren't removing *functional* tissue.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 13:52:40 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
In mail you write:
> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> When you stack a bunch of marbles together, they weigh the same as the
>> did apart. In an atom, they weigh *less*.
>
> In a desperate bid to win "trivial nitpicker of the year" award, I
> have to say that the stack of marbles also weighs less together than
> apart, by a factor of about 1.000000000000000000000000001 (a margin of
> 1 in 10^27) for a group of 5 typical-sized marbles bound by gravity.
>
> Not very noticeable, but present :^)
Let me know when you can *measure* that difference. :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 13:53:22 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
In mail you write:
> In fission or fusion, matter is neither gained nor lost at the "grand
> scale" of neutrons, protons and electrons. They just get "shuffled
> around" to new configurations. In both, what is "lost" is the binding
> energy of the nucleus that undergoes the change - which is where the
> "loss of mass" takes place. Mainly what is thought to be "lost" - or
> converted to energy, anyway - is the as yet unproven "Higgs boson".
I thought they'd found the Higgs?
> I have no idea how "The Day After" portrays nuclear war - I'm not
> familiar with the name and know nothing aboout the film - but the idea
> that nuclear war could be described as in any way or form as "not ...
> dangerous" is just crazy. The primary source of current Earth
> conditions is energy and energetic transformations are the major
> source of all the changes to the conditions on the planet. When the
> meteor hit that wiped out the dinosaurs, it did so with a force of
> around 1,000 Hiroshima-type nuclear bombs. That's equivalent to a 500
> MTon device and is tiny compared to what is available in the world
> today. By any measure, a nuclear war involving a significant
> proportion of the world's nuclear devices is a world-killer.
There an't as many such devices now as there were then. And even so,
they had impossible events and combinations of events.
Minor example, they had EMP rendering *all* cars and trucks useless.
Including ones that were too old to have electronic ignitions!
Likewise, they had some effects of an attack being unreasonably strong
with others being unreasonably *weak*. Huge amounts of blast damage,
little "thermal flash" damage, for example.
If it hadn't been so long since I saw it, I could go into more detail.
But essentially, the film's message was that even if you survived a
nuclear attack, you should just give up and die rather than try to
survive.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 14:01:07 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE
In mail you write:
> In a message dated 11/16/00 1:37:29 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
> webmaster@travellercentral.com writes:
>
> << To which I can only reply: come on down, and we will explain the second
> amendment to you. We have already created a tagging system for lobsterbacks,
> so that they won't be hunted out in one season.
> >>
Could someone mail me a copy of the above post? I just found out that a
friend had only seen the "revocation notice" yesterday, and I want to
send it to him (naturally, I read the response, chuckled, and hit
delete <sigh>)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 16:09:47 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Thanks, Everybody
Hi.
I'd like to say "thanks" to everyone for putting up with me and explaining
everything. I never realized how WEIRD the universe is until I joined this
list. Wow.
Oh, and thanks for the clarifications of rules of (what's the name of the
game we're supposed to be talking about here? ;-).
- -J. Jensen
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 16:09:51 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Thanks, Everybody
Hi.
I'd like to say "thanks" to everyone for putting up with me and explaining
everything. I never realized how WEIRD the universe is until I joined this
list. Wow.
Oh, and thanks for the clarifications of rules of (what's the name of the
game we're supposed to be talking about here? ;-).
- -J. Jensen
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 09:11:36 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Meson Communications
On Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 02:55:18PM -0000, Jones, Dean wrote:
>
> You ever tried accelerating a pin-head black hole to relativistic speeds? ;)
Sure, where do you think the asteroid belt came from? :^)
Although someone already pointed out that time dilation doesn't gain
you much, it would ensure that most of the energy ends up at your
target. The Hawking radiation will be Doppler-shifted, and at
relativistic speeds this means that almost all of it will be directed
towards your target.
Not that the idea is remotely practical in the least even for really
big guns, and even less so for routine communications :^)
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 17:15:24 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
>When the meteor hit that wiped out the dinosaurs, it did so with a force of
>around 1,000 Hiroshima-type nuclear bombs. That's equivalent to a 500 MTon
>device and is tiny compared to what is available in the world today.
Ummmm, no. Best guess at the size of the Chicxulub impact is about 50 to 100
million megatons. Even if it wasn't that particular bolide that did the
dinosaurs in, whatever did it would be of similar magnitude. The entire
arsenals of all nations with nuclear weapons total something under 100,000
megatons.
Not that an all-out nuclear war would be a picnic in the park with cucumber
sandwiches and weak tea and napoleons for dessert while Auntie Edna and
Uncle Roger play badminton by the duck pond...writer manfully tries to get
back on track and succeeds...but a big impact is far more powerful.
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 16:25:28 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
>There an't as many such devices now as there were then. And even so,
>they had impossible events and combinations of events.
>
>Minor example, they had EMP rendering *all* cars and trucks useless.
>Including ones that were too old to have electronic ignitions!
>
>Likewise, they had some effects of an attack being unreasonably strong
>with others being unreasonably *weak*. Huge amounts of blast damage,
>little "thermal flash" damage, for example.
>
>If it hadn't been so long since I saw it, I could go into more detail.
>
>But essentially, the film's message was that even if you survived a
>nuclear attack, you should just give up and die rather than try to
>survive.
>
The thing about tales like "On the Beach" (never read it but read about it),
"The Day After" (still haven't seen it), and most post-apocalyptic thrillers
is that it's one thing to say "there's a nuclear war" and another thing to
_describe_ it. Anyone who puts any research into the real-life effects of
nuclear explosions will realize just how survivable (in the short run, if
not the long one) that it is. _Alas, Babylon_ is the most realistic story
out there (that I've seen). I personally would call it about as close as you
could come to the real thing without experiencing it first hand.
- -J. Jensen
====================
"Life finds a way."
-Ian Malcolm, _Jurassic Park_
_____________________________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 11:28:35 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
On 23 Nov 2000, at 17:15, Paul Drye wrote:
> >When the meteor hit that wiped out the dinosaurs, it did so with a force of
> >around 1,000 Hiroshima-type nuclear bombs. That's equivalent to a 500 MTon
> >device and is tiny compared to what is available in the world today.
>
> Ummmm, no. Best guess at the size of the Chicxulub impact is about 50 to 100
> million megatons. Even if it wasn't that particular bolide that did the
> dinosaurs in, whatever did it would be of similar magnitude. The entire arsenals
> of all nations with nuclear weapons total something under 100,000 megatons.
>
> Not that an all-out nuclear war would be a picnic in the park with cucumber
> sandwiches and weak tea and napoleons for dessert while Auntie Edna and Uncle
> Roger play badminton by the duck pond...writer manfully tries to get back on
> track and succeeds...but a big impact is far more powerful.
However it's a lot more localized in terms of initial energy release. It is
also probably more localised in terms of how much of the earth's forests could
get up burnt, etc. The question is whether a nuclear war's wider area of effect
would be enough to make up for the relatively puny amount of energy released.
Let's hope that no-one ever has to find out for real.
- --
Rupert Boleyn
"Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out."
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 11:30:13 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
On 23 Nov 2000, at 16:25, James Jensen wrote:
> The thing about tales like "On the Beach" (never read it but read about it),
> "The Day After" (still haven't seen it), and most post-apocalyptic thrillers is
> that it's one thing to say "there's a nuclear war" and another thing to
> _describe_ it. Anyone who puts any research into the real-life effects of
> nuclear explosions will realize just how survivable (in the short run, if not
> the long one) that it is.
Always provided, of course, that one isn't inside the 5psi blast radius.
- --
Rupert Boleyn
"Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out."
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 09:47:33 +1100
From: Robert Houghton <rhoughto@one.net.au>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> On 23 Nov 2000, at 16:25, James Jensen wrote:
>
> > The thing about tales like "On the Beach" (never read it but read about it),
> > "The Day After" (still haven't seen it), and most post-apocalyptic thrillers is
> > that it's one thing to say "there's a nuclear war" and another thing to
> > _describe_ it. Anyone who puts any research into the real-life effects of
> > nuclear explosions will realize just how survivable (in the short run, if not
> > the long one) that it is.
>
> Always provided, of course, that one isn't inside the 5psi blast radius.
>
And what *is* the blast radius of 5 Zho's with telekenetic short circuits?
Other Rob
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 17:41:45 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
>It is also probably more localised in terms of how much of the earth's
>forests could get up burnt, etc. The question is whether a nuclear war's
>wider area of effect would be enough to make up for the relatively puny
>amount of energy released.
The Chicxulub impact set fire to just about every tree in North and South
America, and parts of West Africa (though I suppose some were put out by the
closely following tsunami....) The only way to top that would be to get
Eurasia too, and I have a hard time believing that a nuclear war would be
that effective.
To summarize: nuclear war, bummer; dinosaur killer, major bummer
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3322
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3323
Date: | 11/23/00 7:40:25 PM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Thursday, November 23 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3323
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
RE: G:T Products
Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
RE: G:T Products
Re: G:T Products
Re: Known Stars List (was re: H&E Temps)
Re: Hexpolar coordinates, update
Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
Re: Thanks, Everybody
RE: Jump emergence and Black Globes
Re: G:T Products
RE: G:T Products
Re: Vargr in fiction
RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Hexpolar coordinates, update
Re: RL cluster bombs
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3317
Re: to satisfy my curiosity
Apocalypse Now and the Wizard of Oz
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Nuclear War
re: Technology Marches On: The Six Million Dollar Monkey?
RE: More Traveller Jobs-Law
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 16:50:32 -0600
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Robert Houghton wrote:
>
> Rupert Boleyn wrote:
>
> > On 23 Nov 2000, at 16:25, James Jensen wrote:
> >
> > > The thing about tales like "On the Beach" (never read it but read about it),
> > > "The Day After" (still haven't seen it), and most post-apocalyptic thrillers is
> > > that it's one thing to say "there's a nuclear war" and another thing to
> > > _describe_ it. Anyone who puts any research into the real-life effects of
> > > nuclear explosions will realize just how survivable (in the short run, if not
> > > the long one) that it is.
> >
> > Always provided, of course, that one isn't inside the 5psi blast radius.
> >
>
> And what *is* the blast radius of 5 Zho's with telekenetic short circuits?
I'm sorry, Citizen, but that information is _not_ available at your
clearance.
Please report to the Voluntary Termination Chamber in RAD Sector.
The Computer is Your Friend.
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 11:55:02 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
On 24 Nov 2000, at 9:47, Robert Houghton wrote:
>
>
> Rupert Boleyn wrote:
>
> > On 23 Nov 2000, at 16:25, James Jensen wrote:
> >
> > > The thing about tales like "On the Beach" (never read it but read about it),
> > > "The Day After" (still haven't seen it), and most post-apocalyptic thrillers
> > > is that it's one thing to say "there's a nuclear war" and another thing to
> > > _describe_ it. Anyone who puts any research into the real-life effects of
> > > nuclear explosions will realize just how survivable (in the short run, if
> > > not the long one) that it is.
> >
> > Always provided, of course, that one isn't inside the 5psi blast radius.
> >
>
> And what *is* the blast radius of 5 Zho's with telekenetic short circuits?
Dunno. What's the blast radius of 5 Zho's who all teleport into the same space?
- --
Rupert Boleyn
"Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 17:59:24 -0500
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com>
Subject: RE: G:T Products
Rupert Boleyn writes:
> A question about G:T products - which are worth having?
>
> I haven't really been paying a lot of attention to G:T for a variety of
> reasons, but I've decided that I would like to expand my Traveller
> collection, and as I can get G:T products without too much hastle I'm
> wondering which are really worth having. By this I mainly mean ones that
> cover subjects that previous versions of Trav haven't covered well, and do
> so without having strangenesses that don't 'fit'.
As a consummate collector I have all of the GURPS books. I find the higher
detail available in the tech areas most useful. (Although since there is a
higher level of detail you have to watch out for the law of unexpected
consequences.)
Star Marc's (Ignoring the battledress) is a good match to Ground Forces.
Slight refinement of the vehicles might be necessary to match the new
modular design system, which I like a lot. FF&S might be more detailed, but
for most uses I find that I prefer a modular system. It's easier to design
custom modules using GURPS Vehicles and then plug them into the modular
system than design ships and vehicles from scratch. (I highly recommend Ton
Bont's GTS which will handle both the Starcraft and grav vehicle design
systems.)
Ignoring the game system I find the background material excellent in each
book. "Strangeness" is a subjective term. I've always found it strange that
some Noble or government representative would seek out a group of scruffy
merchants in a broken down old ship that they can hardly keep solvent, to
undertake dangerous missions vital to the continued existence of the
Imperium.
Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 17:02:45 -0600
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
>
> At 09:16 PM 11/22/2000 PST, you wrote:
> >In mail you write:
>
> >>>What? No Z-80?
> >>
> >> Say not that name!!! Aiieee!! The unintiated one will being the darkness
> >> down on us all!!
> >
> >You'd prefer I invoked the pale imitation from !nt*l? The 8*8*?
>
> Hi. This reply would be from penguin boy, but he accidentally spoke my
> name while reading this post, as is now a smoking pile of greasy ashes.
>
> And I've possessed all your systems.
>
> You can call me... Virus.
What a relief! For a moment there, I thought you were going to announce
that you were with the Sirian Cpbernetics Corporation.
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 12:06:32 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: RE: G:T Products
On 23 Nov 2000, at 17:59, Terry Carlino wrote:
> Ignoring the game system I find the background material excellent in each
> book. "Strangeness" is a subjective term. I've always found it strange that some
> Noble or government representative would seek out a group of scruffy merchants
> in a broken down old ship that they can hardly keep solvent, to undertake
> dangerous missions vital to the continued existence of the Imperium.
Lends 'em a certain desperation that can lead to them doing the most impossible
tasks before breakfast :)
- --
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 17:08:31 -0600
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: G:T Products
Terry Carlino wrote:
>
<<snip>>
>
> Ignoring the game system I find the background material excellent in each
> book. "Strangeness" is a subjective term. I've always found it strange that
> some Noble or government representative would seek out a group of scruffy
> merchants in a broken down old ship that they can hardly keep solvent, to
> undertake dangerous missions vital to the continued existence of the
> Imperium.
Two words: Plausible Deniability.
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 14:02:34 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Known Stars List (was re: H&E Temps)
In mail you write:
> Leonard wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>>BTW, is 61 Cygni on the official sector maps? <eg>
>>>
>>> 1822 Nusku/Dushaam (AM6, p 28, _Imperium_ mapboard).
>>
>> Is there an unusual "gas giant" in the system?
>>
>> For those not aware of it, Mesklin[1] orbits 61 Cygni A.
>>
>> [1] See "Mission of Gravity", "Lecture Demonstration", and "Under" by
>> Hal Clement. Or grab the third volume of "the Essential Hal Clement"
>> from NESFA Press.
>
> I got no problem with recommended reading, and I'll probably check it out.
> But could you tell us what you're talking about anyway?
Mesklin is an "interesting" planet. In has a highly eccentric orbit
about 61 Cygni A (a diagram of the orbit has a major axis of 13.5 cm, a
minor axis of about 8 cm, and a periastron of about 2 cm, with the
scale being about 2.5 cm to the AU).
Mesklin has about 16 times the mass of Jupiter, but far less atmosphere.
The mass is distributed rather unevenly, with a dense core, and a much
less dense mantle. It's rather more oblate than most planets, with an
equatorial diameter of 48,000 miles and a polar diameter of 19,740
miles.
It's flattened like this do to a rather extreme rotation. The day
is 17.75 *minutes*. Which means the equatorial gravity is 3 gees, and
polar gravity is polar gravity is a bit under 700 gees.
There are lots more details in the article "Whirligig World" in that
third volume I mention (or you can try to find the June 1953 issue of
Astounding, where it first appeared).
More recent calculations, using modern computers (rather than the slide
rule the author used 50 years ago) show that Mesklin would actually
have a *much* more extreme shape (more like a discus). Still, it's too
neat a planet to let details that stand in the way.
BTW, even the natives don't have reflexes fast enough to deal with
falling objects except near the equator. As far as they are concerned,
a pebble that falls off a cliff "teleports" from the top to the ground.
With rather destructive results. :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 14:19:40 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Hexpolar coordinates, update
In mail you write:
> My brain is slowly melting, but I am beginning to sort the distance
> thing out now.
>
> When divided into six "hexrants" (quadrants, but six of them), things
> become a lot easier to visualize.
>
> Basically, there are six different cases:
>
> 1) The two points are the same. Distance is zero.
>
> 2) One of the points is the point of origin. Distance is the radius of
> the other point.
Only true if the other point is on a *corner* of a ring. Otherwise the
distance is the radius *plus* the offset from the nearest "corner" of
the ring.
Also, by appropriate co-ordinate transformations, you can reduce *all*
cases to cases where one point is the origin. But some co-ordinate
systems are easier to "transform" than others.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 14:45:57 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
In mail you write:
> At 09:16 PM 11/22/2000 PST, you wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>
>>>>What? No Z-80?
>>>
>>> Say not that name!!! Aiieee!! The unintiated one will being the darkness
>>> down on us all!!
>>
>>You'd prefer I invoked the pale imitation from !nt*l? The 8*8*?
>
> Hi. This reply would be from penguin boy, but he accidentally spoke my
> name while reading this post, as is now a smoking pile of greasy ashes.
>
> And I've possessed all your systems.
>
> You can call me... Virus.
Sorry, but I've got systems set up that eat viruses for lunch.
Seriously, I have a couple of boxes that have DOS in a *ROM*-drive.
Tell the system to boot from ROM, run the write protected floppy with a
disinfector program to clean/check that hard drive, then use the clean
system to "bootstrap" everything else.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 14:50:23 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Thanks, Everybody
In mail you write:
> I'd like to say "thanks" to everyone for putting up with me and explaining
> everything. I never realized how WEIRD the universe is until I joined this
> list. Wow.
To quote the late J.B.S. Haldane:
"The universe is not only queerer than we imagine, it is queerer than
we *can* imagine."
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 18:17:52 -0500
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com>
Subject: RE: Jump emergence and Black Globes
And I would suspect that in high traffic systems the number of ships jumping
in and jumping out would tend to affect how much attention is paid to "jump
flash". In systems with very little interstellar traffic, but extensive in
system traffic it might be vary difficult for a ship to jump in without
being detected, a very bad situation for smugglers, raiders and pi..er..
"ethically challenged merchants." In Naval Depot systems I would expect
that every jump out would be registered and that every jump in better be
followed by an IFF signal with the proper sign/countersign or a system wide
sweep with SDB's is likely.
In systems with low TL and primitive (or no) starports a ship might be able
to jump in unannounced quite easily if the jump flash is EM which obeys the
inverse square law and gravity waves which might be undetectable at these
tech levels.
Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost
On Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 10:34:53PM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
> Besides "jump flash", there should also be a *significant* burst of
> gravity waves when suddenly there are several hundred tons of mass
> where there were none.
>
> This is likely detectable at considerable range.
Yes, very likely. I'd do some calculations, but alas GR assumes these
pesky conservation laws that get broken by jump. Given that
gravitational disturbances propogate at c, it is obvious that there
must be some sort of gravity wave. Not the normal quadropole
radiation though, it would be monopole radiation. Hmm -- I'll see if
I can do some rough calculations with a perturbative model.
The other side of the question concerns how good the sensors are.
Presumably better than current Earth technology, although carrying
such sensors on a starship would limit their size and stability.
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 18:27:10 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: Re: G:T Products
In a message dated 11/23/00 6:07:15 PM Eastern Standard Time,
rboleyn@paradise.net.nz writes:
<< doing the most impossible
tasks before breakfast :) >>
Well its easy if you are a small blonde girl OR a Time Lord ;)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 17:39:26 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: G:T Products
>Star Marc's
Traveller doesn't have cloning. Besides, that would just open up a whole new
can of worms ("All Hail the Prophet Miller!").
- -J. Jensen
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 09:33:35 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Vargr in fiction
> From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm"
> GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:
> > Not sure I know of any in the mainstream. Highly variable governance
> > due to personal charisma is best observed by watching US Presidential
> > Election campaigns,
.......
> > or any of the more chaotic pariamentary governments around the world.
>
> MORE chaotic? Not in any of the parliamentary governments I know of...
> ;-)
Mmm. Fiji, Solomon Islands*, Papua New Guinea...
Israel, at times, probably. I'm not sure whether India or Sri Lanka would
count.
The first three are definites, anyway.
* Home of the Solomani, presumably
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 19:12:02 -0500
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com>
Subject: RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
>I thought they'd found the Higgs?
Possibly. CERN has maybe found the Higgs,. Unfortunately the accelerator
they used in the experiment is scheduled to be shut down for an upgrade
which will take a few years to finish. This will prevent them from doing the
verification experiments that any **real** scientific discovery requires for
general acceptance. This will probably result in Fermilab being the facility
that will be able to do the entire gamut of experiments necessary to be the
accepted discover of the Higgs.
On the survivability of a nuclear war: Can the earth survive a nuclear war?
Probably. This old mud ball is pretty resilient, as the mass extinction
event s of the past have proven.
Can the human race survive a nuclear war? Again probably. Human being seem
quite capable of surviving almost anything.
Can civilization survive a nuclear war? I wouldn't bet on it. The people
left won't be surfing the net, watching football (of either variety) on TV,
or flying off to Bermuda on vacation. They won't be munching on microwave
popcorn while they play RPG's either.
I expect that if you're into the subsistence farmer or hunter thing you'll
do just fine. I don't think we'll have much use for IT professionals or
aerospace engineers or RPG writers. Just as an example look around the room
you're in and see how many things come from another continent. Then think
about how much of what's left could be made locally, say within 100 miles.
Then see how much would still work if there was no electricity, no natural
gas, no petroleum based fuels.
A few people could live by scavenging I suppose. But the ~6 billion people
who live here now? Nope most of them will be toast. If the blasts don't get
them and the radiation, then there's hunger, lack of medical attention and
the diseases that result from the collapse of the support structures.
Survival becomes a full days work all by itself.
Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 19:09:20 -0600
From: "Shimmergloom" <dragon@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 6:12 PM
Subject: RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
> I expect that if you're into the subsistence farmer or hunter thing you'll
> do just fine. I don't think we'll have much use for IT professionals or
> aerospace engineers or RPG writers.
I don't know. Somebody would have to write Stable World: Role Playing in
the World before the war.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 13:29:37 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Hexpolar coordinates, update
On Thu, Nov 23, 2000 at 02:19:40PM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> > 2) One of the points is the point of origin. Distance is the radius of
> > the other point.
>
> Only true if the other point is on a *corner* of a ring. Otherwise the
> distance is the radius *plus* the offset from the nearest "corner" of
> the ring.
Umm - I think you'd better look at how the rings were *defined*.
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 22:13:23 EST
From: Ludowick@aol.com
Subject: Re: RL cluster bombs
Patrik Holmstrvm wrote:
>Sure. Here are some info on cluster bombs (excluding versions with FAE
>and
>mines).
<snip>
Thanks. So, to average the figures (sloppy, but it's just an approximation
for game purposes), we get 70% of the warhead weight available for bomblets.
A 14 kg, 8 cm round could carry c. 9.8 kg of submunitions (say 8, 3.5 cm war-
heads, or 5, 4cm ones). Was this thread already done on the TML a few months
ago, or am I having a false memory?
Ludowick
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 22:14:29 EST
From: Ludowick@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3317
Russell Bornschlegel wrote:
>> Yeah. Realistic version of "Steve Austin":
>>
>> Lifts car with bionic arm. And either the arm rips out of his
>> shoulder,
>> or his spine collapses. Ouch.
>
>I think my favorite was when he used his bionic arm to stop a
>helicopter from
>taking off without anchoring to anything.
That was possible because of the neutronium testicle he had installed.
Ludowick <"What would Nyarlathotep do?">
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 22:16:21 EST
From: Ludowick@aol.com
Subject: Re: to satisfy my curiosity
Leonard Erickson wrote:
>The Antipodal bomber used a series of "skips" off the upper atmosphere
>to extend its range to over 12,000 miles. Alas, the two shortcomings
>were that it could only "bomb" at the start of a "skip", which meant
>that the possible target areas were a series of "rings" around the
>lauch site. And then there's the problem of getting it back to the
>launch site or finding a landing site in the part of the world
>"opposite" Germany.
ISTR that it was supposed to land in Japan (or Japanese held territory).
Didn't the U.S. have a postwar project for a similar craft (the X-20)???
Ludowick
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 19:16:27 -0500
From: peersce@mindspring.com
Subject: Apocalypse Now and the Wizard of Oz
> >
> > "Kansas. Darn. I was still only in Kansas."
Robert Duvall: "We'd surf this beach, if I only had a brain."
The Cowardly Lion on the air assault: "I'm not going! I'm not going!"
Martin Sheen: "They're just little sticks! The flying monkeys are just
trying to scare us!"
>
My favorite take on the Wizard of Oz is "Click the burgundy loafers together
three times and say, 'Get me the F*ck out of here, Motherf*ckers!!'"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 19:29:56 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
>From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
...
>The thing about tales like "On the Beach" (never read it but read about it),
>"The Day After" (still haven't seen it), and most post-apocalyptic thrillers
>is that it's one thing to say "there's a nuclear war" and another thing to
>_describe_ it. Anyone who puts any research into the real-life effects of
>nuclear explosions will realize just how survivable (in the short run, if
>not the long one) that it is. /...
Barring use of excessive toys, _lots_ of people will survive, and perhaps
even some nations of the first world. Civilization as we know it would be
utterly screwed by a large exchange. The people that don't actually _get_
the issue of their societies surviving, well, I wonder if they belong...
As for excessive toys, "On the Beach" didn't (IIRC) go into details, but
it seemed like the background war that destroyed the northern hemisphere
generated _far_ more fallout than was expected, which could be an implied
use of jacketed bombs designed for that effect.
As for other sources, didn't Kubrick do a movie? :>
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 22:36:36 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
Subject: Re: Nuclear War
On Tue, 21 Nov 2000 12:10:19 -0500 (EST), Kagehira@aol.com wrote:
>The possible other thing to remember is that the West, in particular the
>European countries (from the American viewpoint) weren't willing to maintain
>the necessary forces to deal with the Russian numerical advantage (thus
>possibly obligating the possible use of TacNucs).
>There were 2 good books written by a former British chief of Nato (Haig?),
>that cover the battle scenario and some of the polirical ramifications behind
>what happened.
"The Third World War: August 1985" and "The Third World War: The Untold
Story", both by General Sir John Hackett and other top-ranking NATO
advisors.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
(Ask me via email about the ILink message network!)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 22:36:38 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
Subject: re: Technology Marches On: The Six Million Dollar Monkey?
On Tue, 21 Nov 2000 17:59:56 -0500 (EST), Dominic Mooney
<dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> wrote:
>When I was at University back in '95 we had a guest lecturer in our
>Digital Control (for Mechanical Engineers) module. He was a medical
>research engineer from Oxford University's Teaching Hospital.
>He was talking about prosthetic development and asked for a
>volunteer. I stepped forward and he connected a set of electrodes
>over a position on my arm, and linked in a control box. He then
>proceeded to over ride my own signals and drive my arm like a robot
>manipulator, then operated my fingers/hand etc. A very scary feeling
>when you try to move your arm one way and it goes the other
>(especially when you're sober).
>Apparently a lot of their work was spent mapping the signals between
>nerve centres that correspond to different movements - they were also
>starting work on pressure and temperature. The idea was to develop of
>prosthesis that could talk to and from the brain, and manipulate
>carefully, and give sensor feedback. Very impressive.
Hmmm... It looks to me like coupling your experience with the recent
brain-control-to-robot-arm stuff may actually offer some legitimate hope of
regaining use of limbs by people paralyzed by spinal injuries. I'd very
much like to see this...
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
(Ask me via email about the ILink message network!)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 22:36:33 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
Subject: RE: More Traveller Jobs-Law
On Tue, 21 Nov 2000 06:10:05 -0500 (EST), "Jones, Dean"
<Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 19 Nov 2000 16:27:00 -0500 (EST), "Terry Carlino"
>> <carlino@home.com> wrote:
>> >All depends on whether or not the Count can call up a couple of companies of
>> >Imperial Marines. Say doesn't Count Yori have that little group of boy
>> >scouts, Four Hundred and Eighteenth something or other....
>> I suspect that you're thinking of _Baron_ Yori, and no, he
>> has no authority
>> over the 418... Those huscarles belong to the Duke of Regina.
>> (Norris's various titles are theoretically separable;
>> identity of person
>> does not mean interchangeability of title in any given situation.)
>> (Norris is Archduke of Deneb, Duke of Regina, Count Aledon, Marquis of
>> Regina, Baron Yori.)
>But Baron Yori could call on the Archduke of Deneb for aid...and get it
>approved real quick, couldn't he? :)
>Seriously, I can imagine positions where it is policially very difficult for
>Deneb to aid Yori, even though they're the same guy!
Yup. Norris could _probably_ get away with it, but it wouldn't earn him the
friendship of any nobles that got bypassed in the process. The flip side
of Noblesse Oblige is RHIP - Rank Hath Its Prerogatives, rather than
Privileges - and you don't just casually bypass them just because you know
the next person up the line.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
(Ask me via email about the ILink message network!)
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3323
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3324
Date: | 11/24/00 5:33:59 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Friday, November 24 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3324
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: RL cluster bombs
Re: Worst games ever; Warning: Filk Attempt
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
RE: G:T Products
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Hexpolar coordinates, update
Hex grid justification
[BITS] Final Dragonmeet Reminder
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Jump emergence and Black Globes
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3317
Re: to satisfy my curiosity
Trade volume heresy
RE: G:T Products
RE: G:T Products
Subscription info
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 20:00:02 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: RL cluster bombs
>From: Ludowick@aol.com
>Subject: Re: RL cluster bombs
...
>Thanks. So, to average the figures (sloppy, but it's just an approximation
>for game purposes), we get 70% of the warhead weight available for bomblets.
>A 14 kg, 8 cm round could carry c. 9.8 kg of submunitions (say 8, 3.5 cm war-
>heads, or 5, 4cm ones). Was this thread already done on the TML a few months
>ago, or am I having a false memory?
That would be a flash-back to the PD wars. You're OK'ish, Citizen :>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 23:30:42 -0500
From: "Jonathan 'Caraig' McDermott" <caraig@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Worst games ever; Warning: Filk Attempt
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
>Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 13:19:51
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
>Subject: Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
<snip>
>Hi. This reply would be from penguin boy, but he accidentally spoke my
>name while reading this post, as is now a smoking pile of greasy ashes.
>
>And I've possessed all your systems.
>
>You can call me... Virus.
Okay, Erwin*... fire up Napster and get the song... delete voice
tracks... start the player... good beat, nice... the dim-witted wannabe
filker (yes, that would be me) is here, so here we go....
Sympathy for the Virus
(from: Sympathy for the Devil, by the Rolling Stones)
- - ----------------------
Please allow me to introduce myself
I was once a Cymbelline chip
I've been around in a research station
Stole many a computer and starship
And I was 'round when Dulinor
Had his moment of flash and fame
Made damn sure that young Lucan
Washed his hands and sealed YOUR fates
(CHORUS)
Pleased to meet you
Can you guess my code?
But what's puzzling you
Is why it ain't at all old
I arrived in outer Delphi
When I saw it was a time for a change
Killed the Vermine and the IRIS frauds
Duchess Margaret screamed in vain
I rode a Tigress
And some battle dress
After the Vargr raids
And the bodies stank
(CHORUS)
I watched with glee
While your dukes and queens
Fought for two decades
For the gods they made
(woo woo, woo woo)
I shouted out,
"Who killed Dulinor?"
When after all
It was only me
(who who, who who)
Let me please introduce myself
I'm some code of means and taste
And I laid traps for professors
Who get killed before they reached Regina-ay
(woo woo, who who)
(CHORUS)
Just as every ship is my appendage
And all the zeroes ones
As heads is tails
Just call me the Virus
'Cause I'm in need of some restraint
(who who, who who)
So if you meet me
Have some courtesy
Have some sympathy, and some taste
(woo woo)
Use all your well-learned quarantines
Or I'll lay your ship to waste, um yeah
(woo woo, woo woo)
(CHORUS)
Woo, who
Oh yeah, get on down
Oh yeah
Oh yeah!
(woo woo)
Tell me baby, what's my code
Tell me honey, can ya guess my name
Tell me baby, what's my code
I tell you one time, only I'm to blame
Oh, who
woo, woo ...
Oh, yeah
What's my name
Tell me, baby, what's my code
Tell me, Strephon, what's my name
Woo, who, who ....
Oh, yeah
Woo woo
Woo woo
- - ---------------
* Erwin is the AI from User Friendly (http://www.userfriendly.org) who
occasionally helps the Dustpuppy filk.
Yes, I know that Chris Seamans already did an excellent filk of Sympathy
for Yaskodray (http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/symp.html) but after
reading that post, I felt the need to segue it into this monstrosity. =)
( The last mention of Strephon is sort of inspired by the image of Strephon
on the balcony of the palace in Gushemedge, staring defiantly down the
spinal PAW of a cruiser infected with a "God" strain of Virus.
Hmm, on a bit of a somber note... we never did find out what happened to
Strephon, did we...?)
Cheers, and please, if you're going to use tomatoes, make sure they're not
rancid ones? =)
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 23:41:41 -0500
From: "Jonathan 'Caraig' McDermott" <caraig@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
>Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 19:29:56 -0800
>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)
>Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
<snip>
> As for excessive toys, "On the Beach" didn't (IIRC) go into details, but
>it seemed like the background war that destroyed the northern hemisphere
>generated _far_ more fallout than was expected, which could be an implied
>use of jacketed bombs designed for that effect.
ISTR that there was explicit mention of the use of 'cobalt bombs,' that is,
fission bombs with cobalt jackets purposely intended to be 'very dirty.' I
don't know what's scarier, the idea that someone thought up the concept
cobalt jackets, or that someone thought we would use them.
- - ---
==============================================================
Jonathan McDermott, CNE/MCSE NOSPAMcaraig@mindspring.com
System Administrator http:\\caraig.home.mindspring.com
- - ------------------------------------------------------------
Anubis@SpatialWastes -*- Caraig,Dermott@FurryMUCK
IMTU tc+ tn t4 ge++ -3i+ c+(**) jt pi+ va+ dr+ pr+ zh+() so@
- - ------------------------------------------------------------
Current PGPKey Fingerprint (19 November 2000)
04BA 4239 C4CF 030D 11DC 8436 A903 8F4A 91BE 5D05
- - ------------------------------------------------------------
"Never trust a computer you can't throw out a window."
-Steve Wozniak
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 22:45:31 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
>ISTR that there was explicit mention of the use of 'cobalt bombs,' that is,
>fission bombs with cobalt jackets purposely intended to be 'very dirty.' I
>don't know what's scarier, the idea that someone thought up the concept
>cobalt jackets, or that someone thought we would use them.
Can anyone point me to where I might find (accurate) info on cobalt bombs?
Thanks.
- -J. Jensen
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 21:01:08 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
In mail you write:
> Can civilization survive a nuclear war? I wouldn't bet on it. The people
> left won't be surfing the net, watching football (of either variety) on TV,
> or flying off to Bermuda on vacation. They won't be munching on microwave
> popcorn while they play RPG's either.
>
> I expect that if you're into the subsistence farmer or hunter thing you'll
> do just fine. I don't think we'll have much use for IT professionals or
> aerospace engineers or RPG writers. Just as an example look around the room
> you're in and see how many things come from another continent. Then think
> about how much of what's left could be made locally, say within 100 miles.
> Then see how much would still work if there was no electricity, no natural
> gas, no petroleum based fuels.
Well, unlike when I was younger, I no longer see *my* surviving a
nuclear war as being likely. Aside from living way too close to a prime
target, I have a few "minor" medical problems that are a minor nuisance
now but might well kill me in short order without things like
electricity.
> A few people could live by scavenging I suppose. But the ~6 billion people
> who live here now? Nope most of them will be toast. If the blasts don't get
> them and the radiation, then there's hunger, lack of medical attention and
> the diseases that result from the collapse of the support structures.
> Survival becomes a full days work all by itself.
Well, folks in smaller towns won't be too badly off if they escape the
immideiate effects (and there's no nuclear winter). But a lot will
depend on the time of year and other factors.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 23:19:44 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
>Well, unlike when I was younger, I no longer see *my* surviving a
>nuclear war as being likely. Aside from living way too close to a prime
>target, I have a few "minor" medical problems that are a minor nuisance
>now but might well kill me in short order without things like
>electricity.
>
Kind of like with Lavinia in Alas, Babylon.
Actually, these days, the consequences of being diabetic wouldn't be as bad
as in AB. You don't have to refrigerate insulin anymore. And all of the
physical work you have to do to survive would effectively cure borderline
diabetics.
- -J. Jensen
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 21:07:38 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
In mail you write:
>>When the meteor hit that wiped out the dinosaurs, it did so with a force of
>>around 1,000 Hiroshima-type nuclear bombs. That's equivalent to a 500 MTon
>>device and is tiny compared to what is available in the world today.
I missed this the first time. The Hiroshima device was either 10 or 20
kilotons. Which means that a 1000 of them would be 10 or 20 mewgatons,
not 500.
Alas, blast effects scale as (roughly) the cube root of power. So that
10-20 megaton blast would only have 10 times the damage radius of the
original 10-20 kilton blast.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 08:19:53 +0200 (EET)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: RE: G:T Products
On Thu, 23 Nov 2000, James Jensen wrote:
> >Star Marc's
> Traveller doesn't have cloning. Besides, that would just open up a whole new
> can of worms ("All Hail the Prophet Miller!").
Hm, and how did I think that Dulinor killed a clone of Strephon?
Or is all my MT material just Imperial propaganda, and the real Strephon
is a fake?
- --
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 17:49:03 +1100
From: "Jeffrey Michael Malone" <NarellePark@bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
One of the best (albeit dated) references on the effects of nuclear
explosions is:
S. Glasstone (ed.), The Effects of Nuclear Weapons (Revised Edition),
(Washington: Department of Energy), 1962.
Has (IIRC) quite extensive data on kinetic, thermal and electro-magnetic
effects of nuclear detonations. Don't recall whether it had anything to say
about 'dirty' weapons (cobalt et al), but it does have a fair amount of data
on deposition and fall-out patterns.
J.M. Malone
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 18:24:06 +1100
From: "Jeffrey Michael Malone" <NarellePark@bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Further to my previous post, another work is:
L.W. McNaught, Nuclear weapons and their effects, (London ; Washington, D.C
: Brassey's Defence Publishers, 1984).
I think that there was a second edition of the book published in the 1990s.
It has some discussion of 'Enhanced Radiation Weapons' (i.e., neutron
bombs), again not sure whether it had anything about cobalt salting.
J.M. Malone
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 09:31:05 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Hexpolar coordinates, update
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> Only true if the other point is on a *corner* of a ring. Otherwise the
> distance is the radius *plus* the offset from the nearest "corner" of
> the ring.
Well, the rings are concentric, centered around the point of origin. A
ring is defined as all the hexes with the same distance to the point of
origin.
> Also, by appropriate co-ordinate transformations, you can reduce *all*
> cases to cases where one point is the origin. But some co-ordinate
> systems are easier to "transform" than others.
Yes, I know. That's how I wanted to solve things initially. However, it
proved to be very difficult.
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 21:16:09 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Hex grid justification
I've been thinking a lot about the 2-dimensional hex-grid nature of
the maps in Traveller. ("Oh no, not again", I'm sure you're thinking)
After wrestling with the idea of a flat galaxy (with all the night sky
weirdness that would entail), I think I've come up with a novel
in-game explanation. At least, I haven't seen it anywhere else.
IMTU the galaxy really is 3 dimensional, and of the same shape and
dimensions as "the real thing". This makes it much more consistent
with real astronomy, and allows constellations of stars in the sky to
be a meanigful concept. Jumpspace is also 3-D, and corresponds with
real space.
However, jumpspace is divided into very long hexagonal cells, and
jump-capable craft can pass through the boundaries of these cells and
reach any point within. So from a jump-travel point of view, the
galaxy can be treated as a 2-dimensional array of 1-parsec hexagons
each containing star systems.
The vast majority of the stars reachable by jump are useless -- no
habitable planets, no gas giants, no asteroids. These systems are
omitted from simple overview maps (although they are of course present
on detailed astrogation maps). Since any point is equally reachable
from jumpspace, the convention is to place an inhabited system in the
centre of its hexagonal cell and omit the hundreds of uninhabited
planetless systems.
In theory, there are further layers of cells north and south of the
galactic disk, only jump-1 from habitable systems. However, these
cells lead only into the galactic halo. They contain nothing but old,
metal-poor stars with no planets. They are useless from both trade
and military points of view and so are generally ignored.
I have a more detailed cosmological explanation for the formation of
the cells and how jump drives interact with them, though I doubt
anyone would be particularly interested. Certainly the other players
in my game aren't :^)
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 10:36:32 +0000
From: Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: [BITS] Final Dragonmeet Reminder
BITS - British Isles Traveller Support
http://www.bits.org.uk/
Dragonmeet 2000 is nearly upon us and BITS will be attending. As well
as the stall, we'll be running Traveller RPG sessions, and are
planning demonstrations of ACQ and the Traveller Full Thrust
Conversion... the gory details are given below.
Confirmed BITS attendees are Andy Lilly, David Thomas (Author of 101
Governments, SpaceDogs!, GT Alien Races 2 and 3 amongst others)amd
myself.
The official press release follows:
"Dragonmeet 2000, a one-day convention for adventure gamers of all
types, will take place in central London on Saturday 25th November.
Scheduled events will include the world-launch of Chivalry & Sorcery
Fourth Edition (Brittannia Games), sneak peeks at the forthcoming
RPGs Dying Earth (Pelgrane) and Nobilis (Hogshead), an auction of
unique, rare and collectible gaming items, talks and workshops, and a
chance to meet some of the UK's top games designers, artists and
publishers. In addition there is a packed trade hall, open until
6:00pm, and a wide range of demonstration games.
The convention's special guest is cartoonist John Kovalic, of Dork
Tower fame. He has designed a limited-edition tee-shirt which will
only be available on the day, price UK£10. Also in attendance will be
Marcus L Rowland (Forgotten Futures), Phil Masters (GURPS Discworld),
Matt Goodman (Heliograph), James Wallis (Baron Munchausen), Tim
Dedopulos (SLA Industries), David Thomas (GURPS Traveller/BITS), and
many others.
Dragonmeet is organised by Gameforce Ltd, an organisation created and
staffed by games companies and designers in the UK to promote and
expand the gaming hobby through conventions and events.
Dragonmeet 2000 will take place on 25th November 2000 at Conway Hall,
Red Lion Square, London (closest tube Holborn). The convention opens
at 10am and closes at 9pm. Entry is UK£5 on the door, or UK£4 [Dom:
student, OAP, unemployed £2.50 / £4 ] if pre-booked online until
Tuesday 21st November 2000. For more information see
www.dragonmeet.com or email info@dragonmeet.com [Dom: or phone 020
7738 8877]. "
Dom (BITS Webmaster)
- -----
http://www.bits.org.uk/ http://www.core.org.uk/
Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved. Used under permission of licence.
BITS, CORE and the associated logos are trademarks of BITS UK Ltd.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 10:44:46 +0000
From: Rob Myers <robm@h2g2.com>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
This was revised or reprinted in 1977(1979?), and was the basis for the nuclear blast data in "The Morrow Project". I'd imagine T2K used it, too.
Scans of all but the really useful bits (:-)) are available online.
- - Rob.
On Friday, November 24, 2000, at 06:49 AM, Jeffrey Michael Malone wrote:
> One of the best (albeit dated) references on the effects of nuclear
> explosions is:
>
> S. Glasstone (ed.), The Effects of Nuclear Weapons (Revised Edition),
> (Washington: Department of Energy), 1962.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 22:32:06 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Jump emergence and Black Globes
In mail you write:
> And I would suspect that in high traffic systems the number of ships jumping
> in and jumping out would tend to affect how much attention is paid to "jump
> flash". In systems with very little interstellar traffic, but extensive in
> system traffic it might be vary difficult for a ship to jump in without
> being detected, a very bad situation for smugglers, raiders and pi..er..
> "ethically challenged merchants." In Naval Depot systems I would expect
> that every jump out would be registered and that every jump in better be
> followed by an IFF signal with the proper sign/countersign or a system wide
> sweep with SDB's is likely.
>
> In systems with low TL and primitive (or no) starports a ship might be able
> to jump in unannounced quite easily if the jump flash is EM which obeys the
> inverse square law and gravity waves which might be undetectable at these
> tech levels.
Well, keep in mind that both sorts of signals are *easily* triangulated
if you scatter a few sensor platforms around.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 22:38:51 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3317
In mail you write:
> Russell Bornschlegel wrote:
>
> >> Yeah. Realistic version of "Steve Austin":
> >>
> >> Lifts car with bionic arm. And either the arm rips out of his
> >> shoulder,
> >> or his spine collapses. Ouch.
> >
> >I think my favorite was when he used his bionic arm to stop a
> >helicopter from
> >taking off without anchoring to anything.
>
> That was possible because of the neutronium testicle he had installed.
Trust me, that'd be a *real* bad idea. (Cringing at the thought of that
much weight suspended *that* way).
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 22:40:11 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: to satisfy my curiosity
In mail you write:
> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
> >The Antipodal bomber used a series of "skips" off the upper atmosphere
> >to extend its range to over 12,000 miles. Alas, the two shortcomings
> >were that it could only "bomb" at the start of a "skip", which meant
> >that the possible target areas were a series of "rings" around the
> >lauch site. And then there's the problem of getting it back to the
> >launch site or finding a landing site in the part of the world
> >"opposite" Germany.
>
> ISTR that it was supposed to land in Japan (or Japanese held territory).
Japan wasn't in the right "range band". As I recall, Australia was the
most workable landing site...
> Didn't the U.S. have a postwar project for a similar craft (the X-20)???
The "DynaSoar", whatever the numerical designation was.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 22:13:10 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Trade volume heresy
My copy of GURPS Far Trader just arrived today, so I read through it.
Unfortunately one of the first sections in the book was the one that
impressed me the least. Although the descriptive text on interstellar
economics was quite well reasoned with only minor blunders, I was much
less impressed with the actual formulas used to determine trade
volumes.
These formulas unfortunately do not follow the economic pattern
described in the text of the chapter, and it would appear that the
writers recognised this. At the conculsion of the calculation of the
Bilateral Trade Number (which gives the value of trade between two
planets) on page 15, there is an ad-hoc patch slapped on in the hope
that it might fix some of the more glaring mistakes produced by the
formula.
Even more unfortunately, it fails. The cause is not hard to see: the
formula describes a trade volume based on the geometric mean of the
size of the economies of the two planets. The geometric mean is a
*very* inappropriate measure for this purpose.
This leads to large follow-on problems. Using the geometric mean, the
formula tries to give reasonable results for economies of the typical
disparity in size encountered in Traveller. For a very narrow range
(+-1 UWP pop number), it does so. However, the fact that the concept
behind the formula is flawed makes it fail in an exponentially worse
manner as that range is left.
Since the system in its present state is even worse than the jerry-
rigged approximation I was using before getting this book, I thought I
might be able to adapt the basic format to give a better fit. I
believe that I have succeeded. My formula follows the same basic
structure so as to merge fairly seamlessly with the rest of the book.
All that was necessary was to change the Pop modifier (from Pop#/2 to
1+Pop#), to rescale the Port modifier table to fit the new range, and
to change the BTN from
WTN1 + WTN2 + WTCM - Distance Mod
to
min(WTN1,WTN2) + Abs(WTN2-WTN1)/6 + WTCM - Distance Mod
With this change, no "patch" clause was necessary as it gives
reasonable economic results over the entire range of Traveller worlds.
I am now writing a program to generate trade route maps based on the
new formula from sector data.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 11:38:02 +0000
From: Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: RE: G:T Products
At 22:38 -0500 23/11/00, "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Traveller doesn't have cloning. Besides, that would just open up a whole new
>can of worms ("All Hail the Prophet Miller!").
Oh yes it does....
Look at MT's 'Arrival Vengeance' and TNE's Regency Sourcebook. Look
up Norris' heir Seledrian (sp?).
Dom
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 12:51:56 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: G:T Products
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Qstor@aol.com [mailto:Qstor@aol.com]
> Sent: 23 November 2000 23:27
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: G:T Products
>
>
> In a message dated 11/23/00 6:07:15 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> rboleyn@paradise.net.nz writes:
>
> << doing the most impossible
> tasks before breakfast :) >>
>
> Well its easy if you are a small blonde girl OR a Time Lord ;)
>
If your PCs manage to acchieve several impossible things, they might like to
round it off with breakfast at Millliways :)
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 08:32:35 -0500
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Subscription info
Howdy!
A friend of mine who just purchased Ground Forces wants to join the
TML. I'm at work and don't have access to my archives at home, so would a
kind soul please send me the subscription info?
Thanks!
Kurt Feltenberger
"To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,
may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"
~Stephen Decatur
mailto:kurt@blazenet.net
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3324
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3325
Date: | 11/24/00 10:02:26 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Friday, November 24 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3325
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
RE: G:T Products
Re: G:T Products
Re: Trade volume heresy
RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Apocalypse Now and the Wizard of Oz
Re: Subscription info
Re: Clones (was G:T Products)
Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
Re: Worst games ever; Warning: Filk Attempt
RE: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
Re: Subscription info
Re: Subscription info
Re: Clones (was G:T Products)
Re: Subscription info
Re: Clones (was G:T Products)
Re: Nukes
Re: Apocalypse Now and the Wizard of Oz
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Thanks, Everybody
RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Errata for the Star Mercs errata
RE: Life on the Edge
RE: Life on the Edge
RE: Hex grid justification
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 13:31:59 +0000
From: Rob Myers <robm@h2g2.com>
Subject: RE: G:T Products
The Hitch-Hiker's guide to the Galaxy has the following to say on the
subject of the Third Imperium:
"The Third Imperium is traditionally regarded as having been founded on
strong leadership and stronger trade routes. This cruelly ignores the
role that the brave employees of the IITO (Imperial Interstellar Tax
Office) have played in the Third Imperium's rise to dominance. Their
impartiality, intelligence, high moral standards, dignified air and
striking personal attractiveness makes them the hoopiest bunch of froods
spinward of Guaran. They-"
It goes on in this fashion for several pages. Rumour has it that a new
Guide entry for the 3I is in preparation following an out of court
settlement between the Spinward Marches edition of The Guide, several
ex-IITO operatives and the Tactical Legal Squadron of the Imperial
Marines concerning the largest case of tax fraud since Allandro Jonesse
toured Core Sector after the Long Night claiming that worlds owed Sylea
hundreds of years of back-taxes, payable in cash.
Whether this will affect The Guide's long standing product-placement
agreement with TAS has yet to be seen, although anyone who has survived
following the Guide's recommendations for "Twelve things you really
should think at a Zhodani social gathering" would probably argue that an
incident involving 24 lawyers with FGMP-15s is nothing to get hung up over.
- -Rob.
On Friday, November 24, 2000, at 12:51 PM, Jones, Dean wrote:
> If your PCs manage to acchieve several impossible things, they might like to
> round it off with breakfast at Millliways :)
- --
Rob Myers - http://www.robmyers.org/ H2G2 - http://www.h2g2.com/
MacOS wonderfulness for The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy Game.
"Smash Global Capitalism! Spend less money!"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 05:46:50 -0800
From: "Pronto" <pronto_r031@telus.net>
Subject: Re: G:T Products
> The Hitch-Hiker's guide to the Galaxy has the following to say on the
> subject of the Third Imperium:
>
<Snip>
ROFL
You have made my day start with laughter, thank you.
Lovely, simply lovely.
Pronto
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 09:28:53 -0500
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: Trade volume heresy
>Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 22:13:10 +1100
>From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
>Subject: Trade volume heresy
...
>At the conculsion of the calculation of the
>Bilateral Trade Number (which gives the value of trade between two
>planets) on page 15, there is an ad-hoc patch slapped on in the hope
>that it might fix some of the more glaring mistakes produced by the
>formula.
That patch has since been errata'd:
Max BTN = (min(WTN1, WTN2) * 2) + 1
[comments on Far Trader economic model deleted]
>All that was necessary was to change the Pop modifier (from Pop#/2 to
>1+Pop#), to rescale the Port modifier table to fit the new range, and
>to change the BTN from
> WTN1 + WTN2 + WTCM - Distance Mod
>to
> min(WTN1,WTN2) + Abs(WTN2-WTN1)/6 + WTCM - Distance Mod
Could you post your rescaled Port Modifier table, so that we can reproduce
your results?
I've forwarded your comments to Jim Maclean, who wrote all the economics
sections of the book, since I believe he isn't following the TML these days.
For your information, though, Jim has just about finished his PhD in
economics. There may be some truth to your criticisms, but if there are
problems with the system they did not arise from ignorance.
Christopher Thrash
co-author, GT: Far Trader
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 00:11:32 -0000
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Timothy Little
> Sent: 23 November 2000 21:39
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 23, 2000 at 08:29:45PM -0000, Mark Preston wrote:
> > When the meteor hit that wiped out the dinosaurs, it did so with a
> > force of around 1,000 Hiroshima-type nuclear bombs.
>
> I had thought that the estimate was a 10 km impactor hitting with a
> kinetic energy on the order of 10^23 J, which is roughly
> 1,000,000,000
I believe that the figure I heard was "between 1,000 and 1,000,000
times ...." since there's a fair amount of debate around the dinosaur
thing. So I guess both would fit.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 06:35:26
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Apocalypse Now and the Wizard of Oz
At 07:16 PM 11/23/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>My favorite take on the Wizard of Oz is "Click the burgundy loafers together
>three times and say, 'Get me the F*ck out of here, Motherf*ckers!!'"
No, no.. put on _Dark Side of the Moon_ and watch the movie with the sound
off.
I wish they would put out a DVD of _The Wizard of Oz_ with this as an
alternate soundtrack.
- --
Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry
gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
Alle preisen den Pinguinherrscher!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 06:43:40
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Subscription info
At 08:32 AM 11/24/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>A friend of mine who just purchased Ground Forces wants to join the
>TML. I'm at work and don't have access to my archives at home, so would a
>kind soul please send me the subscription info?
>Kurt Feltenberger
You know Kurt, after he reads "your" write-up, don't be suprised if he
starts trying to get you to play a lot of chess... :)
From the TML FAQ:
http://www.vectis.demon.co.uk/traveller/faq/tml-faq.html
To subscribe to the TML, send a mail message to
traveller-request@lists.imagiconline.com
and in the body, place the following line if you wish to receive each message
separately (real time mode):
subscribe traveller
Or, if you wish to receive a couple of messages each day with all of the
day's messages in them (digest mode), use the following line:
subscribe traveller-digest
- --
Douglas E. Berry Templar Agent at Large.
gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
TravGeekCode:
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 08:50:19 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Clones (was G:T Products)
> On Thu, 23 Nov 2000, James Jensen wrote:
> > >Star Marc's
> > Traveller doesn't have cloning. Besides, that would just open up a whole
new
> > can of worms ("All Hail the Prophet Miller!").
>
> Hm, and how did I think that Dulinor killed a clone of Strephon?
>
> Or is all my MT material just Imperial propaganda, and the real Strephon
> is a fake?
I know very little about MT, but did it actually _say_ that Strephon's
double was a clone and not a pseudo-biological robot?
- -J. Jensen
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 06:47:02
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
At 02:45 PM 11/23/2000 PST, you wrote:
>> You can call me... Virus.
>
>Sorry, but I've got systems set up that eat viruses for lunch.
Hmmmm... if Virus and The Computer from Paranoia had a fight, who would win?
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 06:56:40
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Worst games ever; Warning: Filk Attempt
At 11:30 PM 11/23/2000 -0500, you wrote:
> Okay, Erwin*... fire up Napster and get the song... delete voice
>tracks... start the player... good beat, nice... the dim-witted wannabe
>filker (yes, that would be me) is here, so here we go....
>
>Sympathy for the Virus
>(from: Sympathy for the Devil, by the Rolling Stones)
<snip>
Not bad.. mind if Kirsten and I play with it a little? There's no rule
about having only one parody-filk of the same song on the page.
>Hmm, on a bit of a somber note... we never did find out what happened to
>Strephon, did we...?)
I was in a TNE game where we reached the Summer Palace in late 1248 (this
was a variant: no super-virus, but a less capable version mixed with
several biowar agents that got out of control. Interstellar trade stopped
to keep more worlds from being infected, but it was too late.)
The planet was abandoned. Not dead, but very carefully they had left. In
the courtyard of the Imperial residence, we found a simple tomb.
HERE LIE ALL THAT REMAINS OF
STREPHON
LAST EMPEROR OF MANKIND
"LOOK ON MY WORKS, YE MIGHTY
AND DESPAIR"
I have never heard a gaming table get so quiet. We left the world quickly,
and never died find out what happened to the population.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 15:00:35 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Douglas E. Berry [mailto:gridlore@pop.mindspring.com]
> Sent: 24 November 2000 06:47
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
>
>
> At 02:45 PM 11/23/2000 PST, you wrote:
>
> >> You can call me... Virus.
> >
> >Sorry, but I've got systems set up that eat viruses for lunch.
>
> Hmmmm... if Virus and The Computer from Paranoia had a fight,
> who would win?
> --
TREASON!!!!!
Maybe The Computer is a God strain of Virus, with anti commie mutant scum
quirks?
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 09:04:18 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
>Hmmmm... if Virus and The Computer from Paranoia had a fight, who would
>win?
How dare you question the power of the Computer! What are you, some kind of
commie mutant traitor?
- -J. Jensen
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 10:04:24 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: Re: Subscription info
On this note...A few weeks ago I looked at the FAQ for the list to
subscribe...but the server was still listed as imagine/majordomo...I think
the FAQ might need to be updated...
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 10:06:19 -0500
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: Subscription info
At 06:43 AM 11/24/2000 +0000, you wrote:
>At 08:32 AM 11/24/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>
> >A friend of mine who just purchased Ground Forces wants to join the
> >TML. I'm at work and don't have access to my archives at home, so would a
> >kind soul please send me the subscription info?
>
> >Kurt Feltenberger
>
>You know Kurt, after he reads "your" write-up, don't be suprised if he
>starts trying to get you to play a lot of chess... :)
Thanks Doug!
He had some nice comments about your work. I'll forward them to you off
list if you want them.
Kurt Feltenberger
"To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,
may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"
~Stephen Decatur
mailto:kurt@blazenet.net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 07:04:03
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Clones (was G:T Products)
At 08:50 AM 11/24/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>I know very little about MT, but did it actually _say_ that Strephon's
>double was a clone and not a pseudo-biological robot?
Norris' daughter is a cross-sex clone. The term "true-son" or
"true-daughter" is used to describe such children.
Ref: _Survival Margin_, and _Arrival Vengence: The Final Odyssey_
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 07:12:53
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Subscription info
At 10:06 AM 11/24/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>Thanks Doug!
It's nice to be thanked for making someone a mind-controled timebomb.
>He had some nice comments about your work. I'll forward them to you off
>list if you want them.
Please.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 17:22:03 +0200 (EET)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: Re: Clones (was G:T Products)
On Fri, 24 Nov 2000, James Jensen wrote:
> > Hm, and how did I think that Dulinor killed a clone of Strephon?
> >
> > Or is all my MT material just Imperial propaganda, and the real Strephon
> > is a fake?
>
> I know very little about MT, but did it actually _say_ that Strephon's
> double was a clone and not a pseudo-biological robot?
I'm too lazy to reach out and grab Arrival Vengeance, but I remember it
being mentioned and explained there.
But, as a friend of mine has things IHTU (Hello RFXn, you here? B-) the
published Traveller material is just Imperial propaganda, and there is
much more behind the scenes.
Like nanotech-using people rimward of Solomani. No, they stay there, and
Imperium won't get there, just for that reason.
- --
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 10:57:02 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Nukes
In a message dated 24-Nov-00 7:33:59 AM Central Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:
> One of the best (albeit dated) references on the effects of nuclear
> explosions is:
>
> S. Glasstone (ed.), The Effects of Nuclear Weapons (Revised Edition),
> (Washington: Department of Energy), 1962.
>
> Has (IIRC) quite extensive data on kinetic, thermal and electro-magnetic
> effects of nuclear detonations. Don't recall whether it had anything to
say
> about 'dirty' weapons (cobalt et al), but it does have a fair amount of
data
> on deposition and fall-out patterns.
This was one of our sources for Twilight: 2000. It was suggested by people
with security clearances as the best readily-available unclassified source.
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 10:12:44 -0600
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net>
Subject: Re: Apocalypse Now and the Wizard of Oz
At 07:16 PM 11/23/00 -0500, you wrote:
>> >
>> > "Kansas. Darn. I was still only in Kansas."
>
>Robert Duvall: "We'd surf this beach, if I only had a brain."
>
>The Cowardly Lion on the air assault: "I'm not going! I'm not going!"
>
>Martin Sheen: "They're just little sticks! The flying monkeys are just
>trying to scare us!"
>>
>
>My favorite take on the Wizard of Oz is "Click the burgundy loafers together
>three times and say, 'Get me the F*ck out of here, Motherf*ckers!!'"
Darn, there goes my keyboard. <grin>
Les (Somewhere up a river.)
====================================
Revolutionaries are not nice people.
====================================
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 09:18:52 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
On Fri, 24 Nov 2000, Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> On 23 Nov 2000, at 16:25, James Jensen wrote:
>
> > The thing about tales like "On the Beach" (never read it but read about it),
> > "The Day After" (still haven't seen it), and most post-apocalyptic thrillers is
> > that it's one thing to say "there's a nuclear war" and another thing to
> > _describe_ it. Anyone who puts any research into the real-life effects of
> > nuclear explosions will realize just how survivable (in the short run, if not
> > the long one) that it is.
>
> Always provided, of course, that one isn't inside the 5psi blast radius.
Or that one isn't in the fallout plumes of a half dozen or more _other_
strikes and catch a leathal dose
Or that one isn't in a heavily urbanized area with no food besides what's
left in the 7-Elevens, and there's 1.2 million hungry people still left
around (Imagine a strike on LA...)
Or that one isn't somewhere where growing/hunting food is difficult
Or that one doesn't get typhus/cholera/flu/ whatever when the epidemics
sweep through
Or that one doesn't get scurvy when you can't find the vitamin C you need
Or that one isn't severly burned in the fires that are started _outside_
the 5 psi range (Imagine the wildfires in SoCal if a nuke strike happens
during a good ol' nasty Santa Ana September...)
Or that one doesn't freeze to death if the attack happens to take place
during winter and you live in a cold climate.
Or you aren't killed by the hurricane you didn't know was coming because,
well, that TeeVee weatherman isn't on teevee anymore
Or that tornado you had no warning of because the sirens don't work
anymore
Or you aren't killed by the bandits who think that taking food is
preferable to growing it
Or it turns out that that 'nuclear winter' anti-nuke scare crap turns out
to be real. Oops! No crop next year! Hope you got lots of canned beans!
(Or speaking of which:
Or that it turns out that 50 foot tall mutant turkeys are roaming the
neighborhood Anyone else remember that sadly short-lived series? ;-)
Or...Or...Or..
_A_ nuclear explosion is survivable.
The sequelae of a generalized nuclear war are far less survivable. And
survive means for whatever the rest of your life is, not the day after the
blast.
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 09:30:07 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Thanks, Everybody
On Thu, 23 Nov 2000, James Jensen wrote:
> Hi.
>
> I'd like to say "thanks" to everyone for putting up with me and explaining
> everything. I never realized how WEIRD the universe is until I joined this
> list. Wow.
;-) More than one of us have realized that the TML is a damn good
generalized reference source. We have professionals in just about any
field ready at hand. Wanna rocket scientist...we have real ones. Wanna
astrophysicist? Anthropologist? Sociologist? Doctor? Engineer?
Biochemist? Programmer? Bus dispatcher and notorious penguin collaborator?
Ditto! They're all here!
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 15:14:26 -0000
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
> Sent: 23 November 2000 21:53
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
>
>
> In mail you write:
>
> > In fission or fusion, matter is neither gained nor lost
> at the "grand
> > scale" of neutrons, protons and electrons. They just get "shuffled
> > around" to new configurations. In both, what is "lost" is
> the binding
> > energy of the nucleus that undergoes the change - which
> is where the
> > "loss of mass" takes place. Mainly what is thought to be
> "lost" - or
> > converted to energy, anyway - is the as yet unproven
> "Higgs boson".
>
> I thought they'd found the Higgs?
>
Not yet, but they reckon the new supercollider should pick it up.
There are unconfirmed possible Higgs events at the old collider in
CERN...but given it shuts down soon, whether they are accurate or
wishful thinking is anyones' guuess.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 17:37:56 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Errata for the Star Mercs errata
I quote from the official errata on the following URL:
http://www.sjgames.com/errata/gurps/traveller-star-mercs.html
"P. 66.
In the Vehicle Armament table, the 80mm RF howit w/HEDP or w/HEAT
the ¥ with a ×."
What does this mean? I assume that the word "replace" is missing from
the last part of the sentence... or?
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 11:37:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: RE: Life on the Edge
James Jensen writes:
>>In a desperate bid to win "trivial nitpicker of the year" award, I
>>have to say that the stack of marbles also weighs less together than
>>apart, by a factor of about 1.000000000000000000000000001 (a margin of
>>1 in 10^27) for a group of 5 typical-sized marbles bound by gravity.
>Actually, the margin would be 1 in 10^-27.
If you wish to pick nits, well, the original post was correct: the
margin
is 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (10^27). This is the
same as a proportion of 0.000000000000000000000000001 (10^-27).
:)
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 11:46:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: RE: Life on the Edge
Mark Preston writes:
<snipped>
>When the meteor hit that wiped out the dinosaurs, it did so with a
>force of around 1,000 Hiroshima-type nuclear bombs. That's
>equivalent to a 500 MTon device and is tiny compared to what is
>available in the world today. By any measure, a nuclear war
>involving a significant proportion of the world's nuclear devices is
>a world-killer.
Others have challanged this estimate of the relative energy
release of the "dinosaur-killer" of c. 65 million years ago
and the world's arsenal of nuclear weapons, but I would
just like to point out that life was not eradicated when
things went bad at the end of the Cretaceous period.
Notably, our ancestors survived, along with at least many
thousands of species. Like others on the list, I have no
wish for the horror that a nuclear war would bring. Just
how bad it would be for humanity in the long term is
perhaps open to debate, but I expect that we would survive.
Terran life would certainly survive.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 17:58:32 -0000
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net>
Subject: RE: Hex grid justification
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Timothy Little
Sent: 24 November 2000 10:16
To: Traveller Mailing List (TML)
Subject: Hex grid justification
I've been thinking a lot about the 2-dimensional hex-grid nature of
the maps in Traveller. ("Oh no, not again", I'm sure you're thinking)
After wrestling with the idea of a flat galaxy (with all the night sky
weirdness that would entail), I think I've come up with a novel
in-game explanation. At least, I haven't seen it anywhere else.
IMTU the galaxy really is 3 dimensional, and of the same shape and
dimensions as "the real thing". This makes it much more consistent
with real astronomy, and allows constellations of stars in the sky to
be a meanigful concept. Jumpspace is also 3-D, and corresponds with
real space.
However, jumpspace is divided into very long hexagonal cells, and
jump-capable craft can pass through the boundaries of these cells and
reach any point within. So from a jump-travel point of view, the
galaxy can be treated as a 2-dimensional array of 1-parsec hexagons
each containing star systems.
The vast majority of the stars reachable by jump are useless -- no
habitable planets, no gas giants, no asteroids. These systems are
omitted from simple overview maps (although they are of course present
on detailed astrogation maps). Since any point is equally reachable
from jumpspace, the convention is to place an inhabited system in the
centre of its hexagonal cell and omit the hundreds of uninhabited
planetless systems.
In theory, there are further layers of cells north and south of the
galactic disk, only jump-1 from habitable systems. However, these
cells lead only into the galactic halo. They contain nothing but old,
metal-poor stars with no planets. They are useless from both trade
and military points of view and so are generally ignored.
I have a more detailed cosmological explanation for the formation of
the cells and how jump drives interact with them, though I doubt
anyone would be particularly interested. Certainly the other players
in my game aren't :^)
<<
I would like to ask one question, ok this satisfies one point your making
here but.....
Could you make a 3d representation of the 2d map you now have????????
Mike
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net
ICQ#27333894
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3325
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Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3325
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3326
Date: | 11/24/00 5:15:58 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Friday, November 24 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3326
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Worst games ever; Warning: Filk Attempt
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Worst games ever; Warning: Filk Attempt
Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
Re: Apocalypse Now and the Wizard of Oz
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Question (Imperial Guard)
Re: Trade volume heresy
Re: Striker problems
Re: Hex grid justification
Re: Clones (was G:T Products)
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 10:08:53 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
In mail you write:
>>Well, unlike when I was younger, I no longer see *my* surviving a
>>nuclear war as being likely. Aside from living way too close to a prime
>>target, I have a few "minor" medical problems that are a minor nuisance
>>now but might well kill me in short order without things like
>>electricity.
>
> Kind of like with Lavinia in Alas, Babylon.
>
> Actually, these days, the consequences of being diabetic wouldn't be as bad
> as in AB. You don't have to refrigerate insulin anymore.
You just have to *find* it!
> And all of the
> physical work you have to do to survive would effectively cure borderline
> diabetics.
Except I'm not diabetic. I have sleep apnea. So without my CPAP unit,
I quit breathing when I'm asleep. About 90 times an hour. Which means
that my body is constantly having to come "half awake" to get my
breathing started again after the "your suffocating" alarms go off.
The result is a *lot* of stress on the body, and being very tired even
after as much as 14 hours of sleep. I used tofall asleep sitting in
front of the computer, sometimes in the middle of a message.
And the stress and fatigue result in clinical depressision, weight
gain, and things like an enlarged heart (which *will* kill you given
time).
The CPAP unit provides a (rather tiny) amount of positive air pressure
that keeps my airway open as I inhale. But too much pressure is as bad
as too little. So you can't kludge one up easily. :-(
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 13:04:09 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
> > And all of the
> > physical work you have to do to survive would effectively cure
borderline
> > diabetics.
>
> Except I'm not diabetic.
I didn't say that you were.
- -J. Jensen
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 14:05:48 -0500
From: Jonathan McDermott <caraig@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Worst games ever; Warning: Filk Attempt
>Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 06:56:40
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
>Subject: Re: Worst games ever; Warning: Filk Attempt
>
>At 11:30 PM 11/23/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>
> > Okay, Erwin*... fire up Napster and get the song... delete voice
> >tracks... start the player... good beat, nice... the dim-witted wannabe
> >filker (yes, that would be me) is here, so here we go....
> >
> >Sympathy for the Virus
> >(from: Sympathy for the Devil, by the Rolling Stones)
>
><snip>
>
>Not bad.. mind if Kirsten and I play with it a little? There's no rule
>about having only one parody-filk of the same song on the page.
Please, feel free; I'm honored! =)
> >Hmm, on a bit of a somber note... we never did find out what happened to
> >Strephon, did we...?)
>
>I was in a TNE game where we reached the Summer Palace in late 1248 (this
>was a variant: no super-virus, but a less capable version mixed with
>several biowar agents that got out of control. Interstellar trade stopped
>to keep more worlds from being infected, but it was too late.)
>
>The planet was abandoned. Not dead, but very carefully they had left. In
>the courtyard of the Imperial residence, we found a simple tomb.
>
>HERE LIE ALL THAT REMAINS OF
>
> STREPHON
>
> LAST EMPEROR OF MANKIND
>
>"LOOK ON MY WORKS, YE MIGHTY
> AND DESPAIR"
>
>I have never heard a gaming table get so quiet. We left the world quickly,
>and never died find out what happened to the population.
>- --
>
>Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
I can actually see Strephon (at least, the Strephon portrayed in Arrival
Vengeance and Survival Margin, at least) as having wanted those words put
on the tombstone himself, with full knowledge of their irony... but one
will never know, will they? It seems fitting that way. Thank you for
sharing that.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 10:16:17 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
In mail you write:
>> On Thu, Nov 23, 2000 at 08:29:45PM -0000, Mark Preston wrote:
>> > When the meteor hit that wiped out the dinosaurs, it did so with a
>> > force of around 1,000 Hiroshima-type nuclear bombs.
>>
>> I had thought that the estimate was a 10 km impactor hitting with a
>> kinetic energy on the order of 10^23 J, which is roughly
>> 1,000,000,000
>
> I believe that the figure I heard was "between 1,000 and 1,000,000
> times ...." since there's a fair amount of debate around the dinosaur
> thing. So I guess both would fit.
How big is the crater? I've got the formulas that will calculate crater
diameter from yield. And since as I recall the crater is something like
150 km across, that's going to take a lot more than a mere "million
times Hiroshima".
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 10:23:06 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Worst games ever; Warning: Filk Attempt
In mail you write:
> Cheers, and please, if you're going to use tomatoes, make sure they're not
> rancid ones? =)
Oh, they can't be rancid. We've been keeping them in the LH2!
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 10:27:58 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
In mail you write:
> Hmmmm... if Virus and The Computer from Paranoia had a fight, who would win?
The Computer *is* Virus infected!
And even if it wasn't, that's not a situation you can apply the word
"win" to.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 11:28:42 -0800
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: Apocalypse Now and the Wizard of Oz
on 11/23/00 4:16 PM, peersce@mindspring.com at peersce@mindspring.com wrote:
>>>
>>> "Kansas. Darn. I was still only in Kansas."
>
> Robert Duvall: "We'd surf this beach, if I only had a brain."
>
> The Cowardly Lion on the air assault: "I'm not going! I'm not going!"
>
> Martin Sheen: "They're just little sticks! The flying monkeys are just
> trying to scare us!"
>>
>
> My favorite take on the Wizard of Oz is "Click the burgundy loafers together
> three times and say, 'Get me the F*ck out of here, Motherf*ckers!!'"
>
>
I have the image of Dorothy singing "This is the end"
My personal favorite Apocalypse Now version is the one done in "Eek the
cat".
"McTropolis. I'm still only in McTropolis. Cumbaya!"
- --
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend"
- --
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.solsec.org
http://www.grandsurvey.com
http://travellerguns.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 14:45:25 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
>How big is the crater? I've got the formulas that will calculate crater
>diameter from yield. And since as I recall the crater is something like
>150 km across, that's going to take a lot more than a mere "million
>times Hiroshima".
It's a bit warped out of shape after 65 million years, but the Chicxulub
crater is about 200km across.
For those of you familiar with the size and shape of the Yucatan Peninsula,
the following gravitational maps of the area are eye-opening:
http://wwwdsa.uqac.uquebec.ca/MIAC/grav-2.jpg
and
http://wwwdsa.uqac.uquebec.ca/MIAC/grav-3.jpg
(Interestingly, the cenotes -- the natural wells in the limestone of the
Yucatan sacred to the Maya a thousand years ago -- cluster along the edge of
the crater. They're the white dots in the second image above. Learn
something new every day, I do....)
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 14:53:36 -0500
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com>
Subject: Question (Imperial Guard)
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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I’m looking for information on the Emperor’s Guard. Research seems to
indicate that DGP’s Travellers' Digest #9 has some information on this
subject, but unfortunately I don’t have a copy. I was hoping for some
coverage in GT:GF, but it wasn’t covered. TNS at SJG has some information on
the Guard.
All help appreciated.
Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost
- ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C05626.52F1D3E0
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<div class=3DSection1>

color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I&#8217;m looking
for information on the Emperor&#8217;s Guard. Research seems to indicate =
that </span><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'mso-bidi-font-size:9.0pt;color:black'>DGP&#8217;s Travellers'
Digest #9 has some information on this subject, but unfortunately I =
don&#8217;t have
a copy. I was hoping for some coverage in GT:GF, but it wasn&#8217;t =
covered. TNS at
SJG has some information on the Guard.<o:p></o:p></span>

color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:9.0pt;
color:black'>All help appreciated.</span>
style=3D'mso-special-character:line-break'>
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style=3D'mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![endif]><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>

face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost</span><span
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
- ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C05626.52F1D3E0--
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 09:43:42 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Trade volume heresy
On Fri, Nov 24, 2000 at 09:28:53AM -0500, Christopher Thrash wrote:
> That patch has since been errata'd:
>
> Max BTN = (min(WTN1, WTN2) * 2) + 1
That's a lot better. It is pretty close to an early version of my
model, but I quickly realised that the formula still gives very
strange results at the other end of the scale.
> Could you post your rescaled Port Modifier table, so that we can reproduce
> your results?
I've got it in the form of a formula rather than a table, but it's
easy enough to get the spreadsheet to produce a table:
Starport Class
UWTN V IV III II I 0
12+ 0 -0.5 -1 -1.5 -2 -4.5
10-11.5 0 0 -0.5 -1 -1.5 -4
8-9.5 +0.5 0 0 -0.5 -1 -3.5
6-7.5 +0.5 +0.5 0 0 -0.5 -3
4-5.5 +1 +0.5 +0.5 0 0 -2.5
2-3.5 +1 +1 +0.5 +0.5 0 0
< 2 +1.5 +1 +1 +0.5 +0.5 0
You will probably also want the reasoning and consequences of the
changes.
Most of the reasoning behind my model is identical to that found in
the explanatory text in the chapter. In fact, I even checked the
results based on data presented in the text.
First, there is no "14+" row in my table corresponding to the "7+" row
in the original. Under the original rules, it is apparently
impossible to produce a 7+ result. (Unless I'm wrong about there
being no planets with 100's of billions of people, or with GTL 15+)
Under my changes to the formula, the basic trade level for a planet is
determined mainly by its population. The same modifiers apply (tech
level, starport, political and economic factors, distance), and
largely with the same strength. The only major change is how the
presence of large nearby worlds affects trade.
If the WTN numbers are made absolute for a planet rather than
fractional, the published formula for BTN can be rewritten (without
changing the results), as
BTN = Min(WTN1,WTN2) + Abs(WTN1-WTN2)/2 + WTCM - Distance Mod.
In this form, it is almost identical to my version,
BTN = Min(WTN1,WTN2) + Abs(WTN2-WTN1)/6 + WTCM - Distance Mod.
The first term gives the volume of trade that the economically smaller
planet would conduct with a similar planet nearby. The last two terms
give the effect of distance and differences in politics and
production.
The only difference remaining then, is the denominator in the second
term. This term will always be nonnegative, and gives the strength of
effect of simply having a larger neighbour. The original effect was
*very* strong, giving a factor of up to 100000 in trade volume. All I
did was reduce the strength of this effect, and correspondingly
changed the WTN baseline to match existing Traveller material and
sample figures presented in the sidebars.
The original formula gives the result that even planets that are
pro-trade and within 1 jump of each other, trade only about 0.2% of
their GWP. I believe that this is artificially low, an artifact of
a formula that weights size differences far too strongly.
> For your information, though, Jim has just about finished his PhD in
> economics. There may be some truth to your criticisms, but if there are
> problems with the system they did not arise from ignorance.
The economic reasoning was very impressive for a game system, as I
stated. I have no problems with the reasoning at all, only with the
formula. My own degree is in mathematics and I have a fair degree of
experience with analysing mathematical models, including checking
whether their results satisfy the stated assumptions.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 18:14:48 EST
From: Ludowick@aol.com
Subject: Re: Striker problems
Luther Martin wrote:
>You are still left with one big problem: with Striker it's just too
>easy to
>hit targets, even at extreme range. For example, in the TL 5 game we
>played,
>I was picking off the Vargr tanks as they entered the board. At extreme
>range you need a 12+ to hit. But to this you add at least a +2 size
>bonus,
>and probably a +2 gunner bonus. This brings down the roll to 8+ or so
>at
>extreme range.
Yeah. The size hit DMs are part of the problem (they should probably be
half as big as they are -- you could divide by 20 instead of 10 when cal-
culating the size hit DM). Still, that would only make the to hit roll 9+
- -- 28%. Lowering the skill DM for gunners could also be a good idea. You
could use +2 for elites, +1 for veterans, +0 for regulars, -1 for recruits/
raw recruits.
The real problem might be the effect DMs have on a 2D6 system. As soon as
DMs start adding up, they radically alter the chance of success. So, here's
an optional Traveller heresy...
3D Traveller (no, I don't mean starmaps):
For to-hit rolls, multiply the roll needed to succeed by 1.5 (8+ becomes
12+, 10+ becomes 15+, 12+ becomes 18+. All rolls are made on 3D instead
of 2D. Leave the DMs unchanged. Now, in the first example, instead of
8+ after DMs are applied (42%), we need to roll 14+ on 3D (16%). Looks
a bit better (more Vargr AFVs get through). This technique could be
used even for other aspects of Traveller (regular combat, skill use, etc.).
>Similarly, in infantry combat, the die rolls needed do not reflect the
>real
>world, where small arms is fairly ineffective past a few hundred
>meters.
This is one I had noticed a while back. One idea is to force firing stands
to pass a morale check (optionally, they must make the roll by 1 or 2 less
than their modified morale score, i.e. roll 3 or less if morale 5) -- if
they succeed, they may conduct normal aimed fire. If they fail, they use
unaimed "snapfire", with a -2 or -3 DM. This would reduce the rate of small
arms casualties.
Ludowick
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 10:46:11 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Hex grid justification
On Fri, Nov 24, 2000 at 05:58:32PM -0000, michael.scanlon wrote:
> I would like to ask one question, ok this satisfies one point your making
> here but.....
>
> Could you make a 3d representation of the 2d map you now have????????
I'm not entirely sure I follow the question. Do you mean turn the
Traveller maps into 3D ones?
If so, then yes. The main thing would be to note that the galactic
disk is a few hundred parsecs thick. Stars that are in neighbouring
jumpspace cells could be hundreds of parsecs away in real space. This
would give a lot of choice in where to place them. I haven't drawn up
such a map yet, but would probably use a bell-shaped distribution for
creating the Z coordinate with a s.d. of about 150 parsecs.
Each cell would 'really' have up to about 200 stars in it (average 50
or so, I believe). Only a small fraction of these stars can have
planets or other useful resources in order to fit with Traveller
starmap densities. This is probably OK since the majority of stars in
the galaxy are small M-class dwarfs.
There is the theoretical possibility IMTU that a single cell could
contain multiple inhabited star systems, but in practice there are
none.
The other thing to note is that jump masking is a 3D phenomenon rather
than 2D, and so I have drawn up my own tables for such events with
substantially lower probabilities of masking and lower travel times
when it happens.
Eventually I will probably generate a full 3D map of the Imperium with
generation of orbital inclinations and periods of inhabited planets.
This would allow calculation of stellar jump masking for any given
date between any two systems without resorting to probabilistic
approximations. The only difficulty would be tracking down any known
stellar data from canonical sources. I may ignore such data if it
proves too difficult to obtain.
I believe the published sector maps cover a region around 500 parsecs
across. This would about the same as the variation in the Z
direction, so such a map would be roughly cubical in extent.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 10:41:31 +1100
From: "Jeffrey Michael Malone" <NarellePark@bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: Clones (was G:T Products)
I thought (though I don't have my books at hand), that the key issue with
Strephon's clones was not so much that they were clones, but that they had
(selectively edited) memory implants with (for the want of a better
description) 'over-ride codes' which could make them disclose (against their
will and knowledge) that they were a clone (and indeed, which clone they
were). IIRC, HIWG UK wrote a fair amount of material on this, before their
part of space got vaped between Black War strikes and Virus. There may be
some mention of this on the HIWG CD, but that is a guess on my part.
J.M. Malone
- ----- Original Message -----
From: James Jensen <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2000 1:50 AM
Subject: Re: Clones (was G:T Products)
> > On Thu, 23 Nov 2000, James Jensen wrote:
> > > >Star Marc's
> > > Traveller doesn't have cloning. Besides, that would just open up a
whole
> new
> > > can of worms ("All Hail the Prophet Miller!").
> >
> > Hm, and how did I think that Dulinor killed a clone of Strephon?
> >
> > Or is all my MT material just Imperial propaganda, and the real Strephon
> > is a fake?
>
> I know very little about MT, but did it actually _say_ that Strephon's
> double was a clone and not a pseudo-biological robot?
>
> -J. Jensen
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 19:13:56 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
On 11/24/00 at 10:08 AM, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:
>>>Well, unlike when I was younger, I no longer see *my* surviving a
>>>nuclear war as being likely. Aside from living way too close to a prime
>>>target, I have a few "minor" medical problems that are a minor nuisance
>>>now but might well kill me in short order without things like
>>>electricity.
>> Kind of like with Lavinia in Alas, Babylon.
I would like to point out that _Alas Babylon_ didn't protray the
survivors as having an easy time. However, Pat Frank was careful to
position that particular area in a safe zone outside immediate blast
radii and with fallout footprints from surrounding blasts missing
them. Even so, one of the characters just happened to be looking
the wrong direction and was blinded from the flash of an explosion
about 40 miles away, others died from radiation poisioning, disease
and injuries got others, and there *was* trouble with scavengers,
eventually, it just took a while for refugees to get *to* them.
I think, those of you that thought _Alas Babylon_ was upbeat read a
different book than I did. When I read it, I saw it as protraying
just about the best case you could make for survival. Most of the
country was devestated, half the population was dead...or
dying...and even in the *best* of circumstances a few small areas
might, *might* survive. How many decades, centuries, if at all,
would it be before they made it back to where they were? No, I read
it as being much more realistic than the two most popular images
that were available in the late 50's early 60's..."Boom! We're all
dead" or "Duck and cover, and we'll all be fine."
I believe Frank used a mid-50's book on the effects of nuclear war
on the US. When I was in junior high, early 60's, I found that
thick book in my school library and had a horrifyingly jolly
juvenile time reading it and looking at charts of projected fallout
footprints. There were a number of "lucky" areas where blast, fire,
nor fallout would devestate them. Some were near large population
centers, probably overrun quickly, but some were in rural areas a
good distance from large urban populations. I lived half-way
between where two large air-blasts were projected, and even if I
survived it was right in the path of fallout footprints every season
of the year. OTOH, about 100 miles north was a nice big hole in the
footprints, hilly, rural, underpopulated, farming country where my
family had relatives with land...the stuff that daydreams are made
of. <g>
So, would a large-scale nuclear war wipe out the US?
Wipe out...
...the current *nation state*?
That's a very good bet, short term, but if we didn't
reintegrate pretty soon there would be a half-dozen successor
states to replace the USA.
...the current culture and tech level?
That's a good bet too, and rebuilding would take decades.
...all human life? Nah, not without things like the "doomsday
bombs", cobalt jacketed bombs were just one suggestion, and/or
plagues of epic proportions.
>> Actually, these days, the consequences of being diabetic wouldn't
>> be as bad as in AB. You don't have to refrigerate insulin
>> anymore.
>You just have to *find* it!
Ah, I was sure you could manufacture it. <g>
>> And all of the physical work you have to do to survive would
>> effectively cure borderline diabetics.
Hey, I think we'd all have much shorter life-spans.
>Except I'm not diabetic. I have sleep apnea. So without my CPAP
>unit, I quit breathing when I'm asleep. About 90 times an hour.
>Which means that my body is constantly having to come "half awake"
>to get my breathing started again after the "your suffocating"
>alarms go off.
>The result is a *lot* of stress on the body, and being very tired
>even after as much as 14 hours of sleep. I used tofall asleep
>sitting in front of the computer, sometimes in the middle of a
>message.
>And the stress and fatigue result in clinical depressision, weight
>gain, and things like an enlarged heart (which *will* kill you
>given time).
>The CPAP unit provides a (rather tiny) amount of positive air
>pressure that keeps my airway open as I inhale. But too much
>pressure is as bad as too little. So you can't kludge one up
>easily. :-(
Electricity has a lot of beneficial uses, so if you have a chance at
long term survival you'll want to get that technology back asap.
So, let's see... Batteries that can take a trickle charge and a way
to recharge them. Waterwheel, windmill, solar panels, treadmills
(human or animal), or even a stationary bicycle attached to a small
generator. Marine batteries would be bery good. They are do deep
discharge, are recharageable, and common where ever you have small
fishing boats. Generators you could scavange from various places,
including those for bike headlights.
Ob Trav: Hard times/post-Virus and "Gilligan's Planet" ("...a three
parsec tour, a three parsec tour!") scenerios.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3326
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3327
Date: | 11/25/00 1:54:38 AM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Saturday, November 25 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3327
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Trade volume heresy
RE: G:T Products
Re: G:T Products
Re: G:T Products
RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Question (Imperial Guard)
Re: Thanks, Everybody
RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Plasma Rockets
Re: G:T Products
RE: G:T Products
Re: Vargr in fiction
RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: G:T Products
Re: Plasma Rockets
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
re: Technology Marches On: The Six Million Dollar Monkey?
RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Help needed - who's who of Spinward Marches
Re: Help needed - who's who of Spinward Marches
Re: Plasma Rockets
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 12:47:23 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Trade volume heresy
> BTN = Min(WTN1,WTN2) + Abs(WTN2-WTN1)/6 + WTCM - Distance Mod.
I'm still fiddling with the formula a bit. I get better results
moving the base WTN's up by 0.5 and raising the divisor to 8. This
gives trade/GWP in the range 1-30% for most planets, with
trade-hostile planets going down to 0.01% or less, to around 400% for
highly trade-dependent worlds.
IMTU, the distance modifier will be altered. It is not too bad as it
stands, but the cost of shipping is rather low in comparison to the
value of trade goods shipped for trade to drop off so quickly.
It may be reasonable, but it looks very strange for a system only 3
parsecs away to have its trade volume cut by a factor of 10 when
shipping still costs only 10% of the average value of goods traded
(and is reachable in the same time as a system 1 parsec away). I
would expect a smoother transition, so I'll be making one.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 15:08:43 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: G:T Products
Terry Carlino wrote :
>
> As a consummate collector I have all of the GURPS books. I find the higher
> detail available in the tech areas most useful.
So you might know, is there a copmplete list of all the GURPS books that
have ever been produced avaialable anywhere ?
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 20:11:20 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: G:T Products
> So you might know, is there a copmplete list of all the GURPS books that
> have ever been produced avaialable anywhere ?
If you mean all GURPS books (not just Traveller), the site is
http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/
If you just mean GT books, just follow the link "Traveller" from that page.
- -J. Jensen
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 20:55:00 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: G:T Products
On 11/22/00 at 01:05 PM, "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> said:
>> > Well I heard that First In has a really non-canon suit of scout
That's a minor thing that has been errated, or at least discredited.
>> Well, it does, but it's not exactly a big chunk of the book ;) A
>> much more noticeable effect is that First In doesn't result in
>> worlds much resembling classic traveller world generation --
>> habitable worlds are fairly rare, tiny worlds with breathable
>> atmospheres just don't happen, and you don't wind up with any
>> low-tech uninhabitable worlds. Whether you think this is good or
>> bad, it is clearly different from traveller canon.
>Hmm. I've been using a non-canon world gen system for my non-OTU
>settings for a while, but IMO things intended to fit an OTU should
>probably use rules that give similar results.
Keep in mind that GT is GURPS first and Traveller second. First
In's system gen system is probably more accurate, but it is GURPS
Space oriented rather than Traveller. Useful, but no a WBH
replacement...IMO.
Far Trader is also useful, but you have to do a lot of converting to
get it to interface with other versions of Traveller rules. That's
not surprising.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 16:07:53 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Terry Carlino wrote :
> Can civilization survive a nuclear war? I wouldn't bet on it. The people
> left won't be surfing the net, watching football (of either
> variety) on TV, or flying off to Bermuda on vacation. They won't be
munching on microwave
> popcorn while they play RPG's either.
>
> I expect that if you're into the subsistence farmer or hunter thing you'll
> do just fine. I don't think we'll have much use for IT professionals or
> aerospace engineers or RPG writers.
Sorry, Terry, but that's the sort of defeatist crap that the writers of "The
Day After" put out.
There is no way _I'm_ going to be a subsistence farmer after a nuclear war.
I'm still going to be a computer person.
We need computers to run the climate-controlled hydroponics facilties that
will allow us to survive even if there is a nuclear winter.
I, and a number of other people on this list, can build a computer from
discrete parts, machine new engine parts, build a generator from scratch,
construct an aircraft from wood, sail cloth, and an old VW motor, and defend
said equipment using everything from automatic weapons to hand-made
cross-bows. Technology will _not_ be lost.
> Just as an example look around the room
> you're in and see how many things come from another continent. Then think
> about how much of what's left could be made locally, say within 100 miles.
Quite frankly, _everything_ in my room _could_ be produced locally.
It may not be cost-efficient to do so at present, but if neccessary it could
be done.
Heck _I_ know how to produce most of the stuff in the room, and for the
stuff I don't, I know of a library within thre kilometres that would have
the neccessary information.
> Then see how much would still work if there was no electricity, no natural
> gas, no petroleum based fuels.
But there would be. Nuclear war will not remove any of the above, it will
just remove the 270 million-odd most wasteful users of these resources, with
any luck.
> A few people could live by scavenging I suppose. But the ~6 billion
people
> who live here now? Nope most of them will be toast. If the blasts
> don't get them and the radiation, then there's hunger, lack of medical
attention and
> the diseases that result from the collapse of the support structures.
> Survival becomes a full days work all by itself.
I am sure it will be like that in heavily hit areas, such as central Europe
and the seaboards of the US, but for people like us down in New Zealand,
unless someone throws
a nuke at us out of spite, our infrastructure will be pretty much intact,
and while there would need to be adjustments (currently we import most of
wheat, as it's not cost-effective to grow it here ) we would do pretty well.
Most of the people who think survival with style is a problem are thinking
only about how _they_ would find it a problem because they've made the
mistake of living near heavily populated areas, near likely nuclear targets,
in a country where the majority of the population think that milk comes from
shops not from cows and are heavily reliant on the infrastructure to
survive.
The majority of people in our area are familiar with farms and many of us
have even worked n them at various times. Large numbers of us grow our own
vegetables, and we even have chickens in our back yard. We export vast
quantities of wool, meat, milk products and fruit.
Enough of this is already produced in terrain that is like what a nuclear
winter would do to the US farm belt, or already produced indoors, that even
a nuclear winter scenario would not be beyond our capabilities.
Yes, the US would be stuffed by a nuclear war, but to be blunt, that's their
problem.
Our biggest problem would be keeping our air force and navy operational to
deal with all the
"boat-people" from the US trying to crash our place. Perhaps we could
convince the remnants Pacific fleet to change sides with a promise of a new
home-port ?
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 17:50:10
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Question (Imperial Guard)
At 02:53 PM 11/24/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>I’m looking for information on the Emperor’s Guard. Research seems to
>indicate that DGP’s Travellers' Digest #9 has some information on this
>subject, but unfortunately I don’t have a copy. I was hoping for some
>coverage in GT:GF, but it wasn’t covered. TNS at SJG has some information on
>the Guard.
I couldn't cover the Guard in details, since the deatails were all given in
a DGP product. Rather than try to squirm around The Jerk, I just left them
out except for a mention or two.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 18:04:05
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Thanks, Everybody
At 09:30 AM 11/24/2000 -0700, you wrote:
>;-) More than one of us have realized that the TML is a damn good
>generalized reference source. We have professionals in just about any
>field ready at hand. Wanna rocket scientist...we have real ones. Wanna
>astrophysicist? Anthropologist? Sociologist? Doctor? Engineer?
>Biochemist? Programmer? Bus dispatcher and notorious penguin collaborator?
And on that last note, a touch of friendly advice based on the last three
days at SuperShuttle.
If you must fly right at Thanksgiving, do NOT call the freaking airport
shuttle company three hours before your flight leaves on the busiest travel
day of the year and expect to get anything but laughter. Likewise, if the
nice reservations people tell you we need to pick you up three hours before
flight time, that's because we do this for a $%&^% living, and know what we
are talking about. And lastly, I KNOW YOUR FREAKING VAN IS LATE!! I KNEW
IT WHEN YOU CALLED THREE MINUTES AGO, AND THE THREE CALLS BEFORE THAT!
IT'S A BLOODY DODGE RAM, NOT A TOP FUEL DRAGSTER!!! WILL YOU LET ME DEAL
WITH THE 150 OTHER RESERVATIONS ON MY SCREEN FOR A SECOND?!
*twitch*
*whimper*
ObTrav: The characters finely-tuned plans run into a local holiday that
paralyzes the local travel networks. Perhaps a religious pilgrimage to the
planet's moon has the Starport filled to capacity, and the players' ship is
forced to wait as shuttle after shuttle is given priority. Meanwhile,
whatever group is after the characters is closing in...
- --
Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"I am the penguin bold! We sailed the sea, to tringalee,
in search of spanish gold" - The Magic Pudding - Norman Lindsay
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 16:09:52 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Mark Preston wrote :
>
> I have no idea how "The Day After" portrays nuclear war - I'm not
> familiar with the name and know nothing aboout the film - but the idea
> that nuclear war could be described as in any way or form as "not ...
> dangerous" is just crazy. The primary source of current Earth
> conditions is energy and energetic transformations are the major
> source of all the changes to the conditions on the planet. When the
> meteor hit that wiped out the dinosaurs, it did so with a force of
> around 1,000 Hiroshima-type nuclear bombs.
The "dinosaur killer" would have had to hit with a _lot_ more force than
that to have the effect it did.
That's equivalent to a 500 MTon device and is tiny compared to
> what is available in the world today.
> By any measure, a nuclear war involving a significant
> proportion of the world's nuclear devices is a world-killer.
Nope, not a chance.
Unless somehow they were all exploded in one carefully chosen place, they
wouldn't even crack the crust like the dino--killer did.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 21:07:58 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
On 11/25/00 at 04:07 PM, "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz> said:
>> Then see how much would still work if there was no electricity, no natural
>> gas, no petroleum based fuels.
>But there would be. Nuclear war will not remove any of the above,
>it will just remove the 270 million-odd most wasteful users of
>these resources, with any luck.
Pbtttth! to you too, Pitt! <g>
Eris,
one of those 270 million-odd, and odd describes us well ;-) users
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 21:23:57 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Plasma Rockets
Check out this NASA press release:
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/spacenews/releases/h00-91.html
Can anyone say "HEPlaR"? GTL 9, here we come!
- -J. Jensen
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 22:56:17 EST
From: JFZeigler@aol.com
Subject: Re: G:T Products
In a message dated 11/24/00 9:56:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
eris@pcola.gulf.net writes:
> On 11/22/00 at 01:05 PM, "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> said:
>
> >> > Well I heard that First In has a really non-canon suit of scout
>
> That's a minor thing that has been errated, or at least discredited.
Not that I'm aware of. This is the first I've heard anyone complain
about the "scout expedition dress" at all.
Might you be confusing that with the "commando battle dress" in
Star Mercs? I *have* heard a lot of complaining about that one.
The "scout expedition dress" is basically just an armored vacc
suit with a lift-belt built in and a fair amount of stealth and sensory
equipment. It's much lighter than the battledress given in the core
GURPS Traveller book, to say nothing of the Star Mercs battledress.
I don't see what's so non-canonical about the idea, unless we're
counting as "non-canonical" anything that never appeared in CT
material. In which case, mea culpa -- I didn't realize that we
weren't allowed to come up with new material, even if it makes
sense :-).
- ----------
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty
set of people who will take offense at it."
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 21:42:02 -0600
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: G:T Products
At 05:39 PM 11/23/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>>Star Marc's
>
>Traveller doesn't have cloning. Besides, that would just open up a whole new
>can of worms ("All Hail the Prophet Miller!").
>
>-J. Jensen
>___________________________________________________________________________
__________
>Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
>
WRONG.
Traveller does have cloning. Full body cloning is available at TL10. At
TL13 cloning of replacement body parts is possible and at TL 16 Crude
memory transfers are possible. Travellers Digest 12 (including legal
aspects) & 14 details this, as does Grand Census.
Jimmy Simpson
nimrodd@mail.com
"The avalanche has already started.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
-Kosh Naranek (Babylon 5)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 21:52:31 -0600
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Vargr in fiction
At 01:03 PM 11/23/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>Can anyone recommend some sf titles with a Vargr-like culture, especially
>from a military point of view?
>Thanks,
>Jed Docherty
>
If you can find it, there is H. Beam Piper's 'Lone Star Planet' last
published as a double novel in the 80's with his 'Four Day Planet'. It has
a race called the z'Srauff which are basically Vargr. You never really see
the military, but you see the maneuverings on the planet that they are
planning to invade (New Texas).
Jimmy Simpson
nimrodd@mail.com
"The avalanche has already started.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
-Kosh Naranek (Babylon 5)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 17:03:05 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
On 25 Nov 00, at 16:07, Frank G. Pitt wrote:
> Our biggest problem would be keeping our air force and navy operational to
> deal with all the "boat-people" from the US trying to crash our place. Perhaps
> we could convince the remnants Pacific fleet to change sides with a promise of
> a new home-port ?
No Frank, our biggest problem would be how to *expand* the military to
establish the NZ Empire, opps I mean restore civilisation (and proper
spelling) to those poor benighted parts of the world that had been
devestated.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 22:09:31 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: G:T Products
On 11/24/00 at 10:56 PM, JFZeigler@aol.com said:
>In a message dated 11/24/00 9:56:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>eris@pcola.gulf.net writes:
>> On 11/22/00 at 01:05 PM, "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> said:
>>
>> >> > Well I heard that First In has a really non-canon suit of scout
>>
>> That's a minor thing that has been errated, or at least discredited.
>Not that I'm aware of. This is the first I've heard anyone
>complain about the "scout expedition dress" at all.
>Might you be confusing that with the "commando battle dress" in
>Star Mercs? I *have* heard a lot of complaining about that one.
I am, you're right. My apologies.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 05:21:01 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Plasma Rockets
James Jensen wrote:
> http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/spacenews/releases/h00-91.html
>
> Can anyone say "HEPlaR"? GTL 9, here we come!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but what they describe is almost exactly
HePlaR... or?
Cool... or rather very, very hot...
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 22:28:31 -0600
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
>
> On 25 Nov 00, at 16:07, Frank G. Pitt wrote:
>
> > Our biggest problem would be keeping our air force and navy operational to
> > deal with all the "boat-people" from the US trying to crash our place. Perhaps
> > we could convince the remnants Pacific fleet to change sides with a promise of
> > a new home-port ?
>
> No Frank, our biggest problem would be how to *expand* the military to
> establish the NZ Empire, opps I mean restore civilisation (and proper
> spelling) to those poor benighted parts of the world that had been
> devestated.
<tongue-in-cheek>
If the restoration of civilization is your goal, then I suggest you
focus your initial efforts on Continental Europe. Specifically, you
need to introduce the Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys (a.k.a. the
French) to the concept of civilization. By the time you have
reintegrated France into the Greater Anglo-Saxon Sphere, the radiation
Stateside should have declined to tolerable levels, at which time you
may feel free to begin the comparatively trivial matter of convincing us
to abandon the letter "z" in words such as "civilization" and
"organization" and to add the letter "u" in words such as "armor" and
"humor."
PS: Your argument would have carried more weight had you not spelled
"devastated" incorrectly. ;-)
</tongue-in-cheek>
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 21:11:25 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
From: Frank G. Pitt <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
>Our biggest problem would be keeping our air force and navy operational to
>deal with all the
>"boat-people" from the US trying to crash our place. Perhaps we could
>convince the remnants Pacific fleet to change sides with a promise of a new
>home-port ?
Yo, Frankie, have you been reading "Prince of Sparta", again?
I bid you peace.
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"
"I don't need Romance. I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
USS Excaliber.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 01:16:07 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: re: Technology Marches On: The Six Million Dollar Monkey?
On 11/23/00 at 10:36 PM, Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com> said:
>>Apparently a lot of their work was spent mapping the signals between
>>nerve centres that correspond to different movements - they were also
>>starting work on pressure and temperature. The idea was to develop of
>>prosthesis that could talk to and from the brain, and manipulate
>>carefully, and give sensor feedback. Very impressive.
>Hmmm... It looks to me like coupling your experience with the
>recent brain-control-to-robot-arm stuff may actually offer some
>legitimate hope of regaining use of limbs by people paralyzed by
>spinal injuries. I'd very much like to see this...
Yes, it does. If the two research groups knew of each other's
work...
Ob Traveller: There is research in robotics that leads to beings
that look and, within the range of programming, act fully human by
a group in the Spinward Marches. Near the Solomani Rim there is
research on fully sentient silicon life capable of controlling those
robots. Suppose some scientist decided to combine the two projects?
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 21:12:18 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Eris wrote :
> Sent: Saturday, 25 November 2000 16:08
> On 11/25/00 at 04:07 PM, "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz> said:
> >But there would be. Nuclear war will not remove any of the above,
> >it will just remove the 270 million-odd most wasteful users of
> >these resources, with any luck.
>
> Pbtttth! to you too, Pitt! <g>
>
> Eris,
> one of those 270 million-odd, and odd describes us well ;-) users
I'm glad you took that in the spirit it was intended, Eris.
Now, for the SF trivia buffs, can anyne guess which book I (mis)quoted that
from ?
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 07:13:55 +1100
From: "Karen and Michael Hughes" <kmhughes@dynamite.com.au>
Subject: Help needed - who's who of Spinward Marches
Greetings lads,
I'm running a SpinMarch based campaign at the moment (10 sessions notched so
far - a new record for me!) and was thinking of compiling a 'who's who' of
the spinward marches - famous types bios for the ship's library and that
they could subsequently run into - like merc company leaders, hi ranking
nobles, fleet admirals and the like. Mainly so I could insert my plot people
in but also for ideas. The year is 1116 (and yes it's MT but the Rebellion
is yet to hit).
Since the bulk of campaigns seem to be SM ones here is a casting call to
stick famous types into my campaign - beloved players, terrible villains,
quirky waitresses with a love of books and taste for adventure. I'm not
after hugely detailed bios - a paragraph outlining a description of what
they look like, what they do and any particular strengths (such as a high
stat or skill) or weakness. But of course hugely detailed bios are more than
welcome (I just don't want you to feel you have to).
If it's cool could you e-mail my home address as I unfortunately infrequent
reader of the TML at the moment.
Thanks in advance,
Michael
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 00:20:35 -0800
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: Help needed - who's who of Spinward Marches
on 11/24/00 12:13 PM, Karen and Michael Hughes at kmhughes@dynamite.com.au
wrote:
> Greetings lads,
>
> I'm running a SpinMarch based campaign at the moment (10 sessions notched so
> far - a new record for me!) and was thinking of compiling a 'who's who' of
> the spinward marches - famous types bios for the ship's library and that
> they could subsequently run into - like merc company leaders, hi ranking
> nobles, fleet admirals and the like. Mainly so I could insert my plot people
> in but also for ideas. The year is 1116 (and yes it's MT but the Rebellion
> is yet to hit).
>
> Since the bulk of campaigns seem to be SM ones here is a casting call to
> stick famous types into my campaign - beloved players, terrible villains,
> quirky waitresses with a love of books and taste for adventure. I'm not
> after hugely detailed bios - a paragraph outlining a description of what
> they look like, what they do and any particular strengths (such as a high
> stat or skill) or weakness. But of course hugely detailed bios are more than
> welcome (I just don't want you to feel you have to).
>
> If it's cool could you e-mail my home address as I unfortunately infrequent
> reader of the TML at the moment.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Michael
>
>
We have a bunch of interesting NPCs from our Spinward campaign posted at
http://www.travellercentral.com. See the section on Regina for a who's who.
Tod
- --
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend"
- --
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.solsec.org
http://www.grandsurvey.com
http://travellerguns.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 03:53:40 -0600
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net>
Subject: Re: Plasma Rockets
At 09:23 PM 11/24/00 -0600, J. Jensen wrote:
>Check out this NASA press release:
>http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/spacenews/releases/h00-91.html
>
>Can anyone say "HEPlaR"? GTL 9, here we come!
Not really.
There is a brief mention of it in the HARD TIMES ship design section. (My
copy being inconveniently stashed in a rented storage locker.)
In Clarke's novelization of 2001, plasma rockets were in common
extraatmopheric use such as the primary propusion system for the Discovery.
Les
====================================
Revolutionaries are not nice people.
====================================
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3327
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3328
Date: | 11/25/00 6:45:46 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Saturday, November 25 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3328
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Help needed - who's who of Spinward Marches
Who's who of Spinward Marches
Re: Plasma Rockets
Re: Who's who of Spinward Marches
Re: Who's who of Spinward Marches
Re: Plasma Rockets
Re: Who's who of Spinward Marches
RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Plasma Rockets
Re: Help needed - who's who of Spinward Marches
Re: Who's who of Spinward Marches
Re: Who's who of Spinward Marches
Re: Who's who of Spinward Marches
Re: Trade volume heresy
Re: Trade volume heresy
Re: Trade volume heresy
Re: Trade volume heresy
Neutronium Testicles!
Re: Trade volume heresy
RE: Re : Backflow preventers (was Gas Mixtures for Travellers)
SJG Cardboard Heroes for Traveller
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 23:49:33 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
On 23 Nov 2000, at 19:29, Steven Hudson wrote:
> Barring use of excessive toys, _lots_ of people will survive, and perhaps even
> some nations of the first world. Civilization as we know it would be utterly
> screwed by a large exchange. The people that don't actually _get_ the issue of
> their societies surviving, well, I wonder if they belong...
There was a study done here in NZ (for the governement) about our chances after
a nuclear war. The conclusion was that NZ would survive, and that the central
government would too. It then said that the question was whether the central
government _should_ survive. Naturally no further study was done in this
direction.
- --
Rupert Boleyn
"Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out."
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 12:39:58 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Help needed - who's who of Spinward Marches
Karen and Michael Hughes wrote:
> Since the bulk of campaigns seem to be SM ones here is a casting call to
<snip>
So, you have the Dominatrix career worked out in Traveller terms? Could
you post it? Inquiring minds want to know...
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 06:54:05 -0500
From: "W Glennon" <wglennon@mediaone.net>
Subject: Who's who of Spinward Marches
Michael Hughes wrote:
> thinking of compiling a 'who's who' of the spinward marches - famous types
> bios for the ship's library and that they could subsequently run into -
like merc
> company leaders, hi ranking nobles, fleet admirals and the like.
Wouldn't it be great to have these posted on the Web on a site fashioned to
look like Ship's Library Data and be used in actual play? The players could
use it as their characters might. Is anyone doing this currently?
Waco
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 07:30:45 -0500
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: Plasma Rockets
>Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 05:21:01 +0100
>From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
>Subject: Re: Plasma Rockets
>
>James Jensen wrote:
>> http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/spacenews/releases/h00-91.html
>>
>> Can anyone say "HEPlaR"? GTL 9, here we come!
>
>Correct me if I'm wrong, but what they describe is almost exactly
>HePlaR... or?
Aside from the fact that the VASIMR has a projected specific impulse around
20,000 seconds, while for HEPlaR the figure is 4,100,000 seconds (with an
effective exhaust velocity of 0.13c)? Or that HEPlaR produces more energy
in the form of thrust than it consumes, while specifically not invoking
fusion?
Actually, if you reduce the thrust on the HEPlaR from 20 tons per MWatt to
1 ton per MWatt, but leave everything else the same, you'd have a pretty
plausible extension of the VASIMR concept.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 14:57:07 +0100
From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" <volker@greimann.de>
Subject: Re: Who's who of Spinward Marches
At 06:54 25.11.00 -0500, you wrote:
>Wouldn't it be great to have these posted on the Web on a site fashioned to
>look like Ship's Library Data and be used in actual play? The players could
>use it as their characters might. Is anyone doing this currently?
Great idea, especially if it could also be used offline...
Everyone should be able to add new characters and NPC´s...
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 15:02 +0000 (GMT)
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
Subject: Re: Who's who of Spinward Marches
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20001125145516.020286a0@rzmail.uni-trier.de>
Greetings dear hearts.
An excellent web project... who's got space to spare... time to stick it
up.... hmmm.... well, I'm willing to help anyway. Anyone else?
Hugs and kisses,
Mexal.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 09:30:34 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Plasma Rockets
> Aside from the fact that the VASIMR has a projected specific impulse
around
> 20,000 seconds, while for HEPlaR the figure is 4,100,000 seconds (with an
> effective exhaust velocity of 0.13c)? Or that HEPlaR produces more energy
> in the form of thrust than it consumes, while specifically not invoking
> fusion?
>
> Actually, if you reduce the thrust on the HEPlaR from 20 tons per MWatt to
> 1 ton per MWatt, but leave everything else the same, you'd have a pretty
> plausible extension of the VASIMR concept.
>
The problem is that you'll never be able to carry enough fuel to get even to
Mars unless you're willing to take a year. So, in effect, this is _less_
efficient than VASIMR, which is supposed to allow a trip to Mars in three
months, under constant acceleration and deceleration, just like in
Traveller.
- -J. Jensen
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 10:12:20 -0800
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
Subject: Re: Who's who of Spinward Marches
I'd be interested in putting up the space. The characters would have
sent to me in an HTML file that follows a predetermined format--I
wouldn't be able to take the time to format data to match the theme of
my Traveller web site--and I'd certainly want final say in rejecting
submissions that didn't follow the format (and there will be plenty) or
were too outrageous to be believable.
Kristian
Megan Robertson wrote:
>
> In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20001125145516.020286a0@rzmail.uni-trier.de>
> Greetings dear hearts.
>
> An excellent web project... who's got space to spare... time to stick it
> up.... hmmm.... well, I'm willing to help anyway. Anyone else?
>
> Hugs and kisses,
>
> Mexal.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 13:39:32 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Frank Pitt wrote:
>Shows how much he knows. The Trams were running again in downtown Hiroshima
>mere hours after the blast.
I haven't had the time to read the list in a while, and while I normally
don't respond to posts which are as old as this one, I just couldn't let
such a statement go unchallenged. The streetcars were not up and running in
"mere hours" after the bombing in "downtown Hiroshima". They were able to
get three streetcars travelling between Koi Station and Nishi-Tennma Station
three days later.
The fact is that of Hiroshima's fleet of a hundred and twenty-three cars,
just three were operable after the blast. A total of fifteen were far enough
from the blast that they received no damage whatsoever, but the destruction
of track and infrastructure ensured that they wouldn't end up back in
service for some time. Twenty-two were destroyed outright. The others
received varying degrees of damage.
While it was certainly a heroic feat for the people of Hiroshima to get any
streetcars up and running in such a short time, there were several factors
which made this possible, and which make Hiroshima a special case (even when
compared to cities which were hit with conventional bombs). As a point of
contrast, the streetcars weren't up and running in Nagasaki for months after
the city suffered its atomic bombing. The streetcar system in Nagasaki had
far less coverage than the one in Hiroshima, which put more of its tracks,
power transmission gear and streetcars closer to the blast. The power
substation which served the line between Koi Staton and Nishi-Tennma
survived with light damage, and it was possible to press it back into
service very quickly. The infrastructure of that particular line escaped
with little damage. The proximity of Mitsubishi Motor Works to Hiroshima
meant that vehicles could be made available to push debris, including the
burned husks of automobiles and streetcars, off of the tracks.
So what was happening to the streetcars in downtown Hiroshima "mere hours
after the blast"? Some of them were so close to the blast that they were
virtually unrecognizable as streetcars. Their riders had simply been
incinerated. Some were still cooking in the sea of fire which downtown
Hiroshima had become. As the day progressed and the fires died out, the
streetcars were blackened tombs for hundreds of passengers. Further out, the
pressure of the blast fragmented the windows of the streetcars and drove
shards into the faces of the passengers. It would be quite some time before
the corpses in these cars could be disposed of and the wrecks of the cars
themselves could be pushed off of the tracks.
While the claim you've made certainly gives the impression that it was
business as usual in Hiroshima a few hours after the blast, it's just not
true.
I'm not going to continue this discussion beyond this point as it's quite
far off-topic, and I don't want to make light of the situation I've
described by tacking an ObTrav on. It is sufficient to simply say that the
trams were not up and running in downtown Hiroshima mere hours after the
blast.
[As an aside, Hiroshima has always had pride in its impressive streetcar
system, which probably goes a long way toward explaining why getting the
cars running again was so important. In the years following the bombing, the
city's fleet was rebuilt via donations of cars from cities around the world.
Hiroshima has also resisted the change to more "modern" types of public
transit. While this is in part due to the fact that the configuration of
rivers makes building a subway system difficult, there are alternatives
which run above ground which just don't get explored. As the streetcar
systems across the rest of Japan have shrunk in the last few decades,
Hiroshima's has grown considerably. They still have a few of the cars which
survived the bombing in service.]
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 12:47:02 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Plasma Rockets
On 11/25/00 at 07:30 AM, Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com> said:
>>> http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/spacenews/releases/h00-91.html
>>Correct me if I'm wrong, but what they describe is almost exactly
>>HePlaR... or?
>Aside from the fact that the VASIMR has a projected specific
>impulse around 20,000 seconds, while for HEPlaR the figure is
>4,100,000 seconds (with an effective exhaust velocity of 0.13c)?
>Or that HEPlaR produces more energy in the form of thrust than it
>consumes, while specifically not invoking fusion?
Precisely! <g>
Chris, I think most of us know that the performance ratings for
HEPlaR is bunkum. OTOH, the HE *is* for High Effeciency..<gd&r>
More seriously, I'd be quite happy with and an Isp of 20,000 on a
high thrust rocket, given the best we can do with chemical rockets
is in the 400's. Short of true fusion rockets this is probably the
best we're going to get. Yes, I'm excluding ion rockets from the
equation because, although their specific impulse is very high their
thrust is very low.
>Actually, if you reduce the thrust on the HEPlaR from 20 tons per
>MWatt to 1 ton per MWatt, but leave everything else the same, you'd
>have a pretty plausible extension of the VASIMR concept.
Remember that FFS rates Fusion rockets at 9 tons per cubic meter.
Compare that to HEPlaR which is, effectively, 200 tons per cubic
meter. <g> OTOH, this is a game where the focus really is on what
happens on the planets, so we want our spaceships to hurry up and
get there...a little handwavium is okay with me. All I ask is that
the handwavium be consistant and the effects of it be thought out in
advance.
BTW, over on the TNE-RCES list there was a long discussion of
something called the "Plasma Focus" rocket a couple of years ago.
Frankly, I can't remember details, but it did, IIRC, invoke fusion
inside the nozzle...if not the reaction chamber.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 12:52:24 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Help needed - who's who of Spinward Marches
On 11/25/00 at 12:39 PM, "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se> said:
>Karen and Michael Hughes wrote:
>> Since the bulk of campaigns seem to be SM ones here is a casting call to
><snip>
>So, you have the Dominatrix career worked out in Traveller terms?
>Could you post it? Inquiring minds want to know...
<shaking his head sadly>
That's S&M, Jens, not SM.
<brightening up considerably>
Now you'll have to be PUNISHED! Muhahahaha!
Eris,
with a name like mine there's no way I could believe in
"discipline!" <eg>
ps. It just occurs to me why I like *random* character
generation so much!
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 12:55:18 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Who's who of Spinward Marches
On 11/25/00 at 03:02 PM, mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson) said:
>In-Reply-To:
><5.0.0.25.0.20001125145516.020286a0@rzmail.uni-trier.de> Greetings
>dear hearts.
>An excellent web project... who's got space to spare... time to
>stick it up.... hmmm.... well, I'm willing to help anyway. Anyone
>else?
I'd be interested in a Reaver's Deep version more than a Spinward Marches one, but I agree that it is an excellent idea that I might stea^h^h^h^h...borrow for my Reaver's Deep and Quental Main settings.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 13:32:28 -0600
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Who's who of Spinward Marches
eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
> I'd be interested in a Reaver's Deep version more than a Spinward Marches one, but I agree that it is an excellent idea that I might stea^h^h^h^h...borrow for my Reaver's Deep and Quental Main settings.
Make it a "Who's Who of Traveller", but build in
Allegiance, Race, and Sector filters. Also, a Career/Occupation
field, which could use the Patron generation labels, would make it
*extremely* useful.
Example searches:
Non-Aligned - - Human - - Reaver's Deep - - Rogue/Other
- ---> Return: 45
Imperial - - Vargr - - Antares - - Noble
- ---> Return: 1 (Brzk).
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 13:55:24 -0600
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Who's who of Spinward Marches
Steve Daniels wrote:
>
> eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
>
> > I'd be interested in a Reaver's Deep version more than a Spinward Marches one, but I agree that it is an excellent idea that I might stea^h^h^h^h...borrow for my Reaver's Deep and Quental Main settings.
>
> Make it a "Who's Who of Traveller", but build in
> Allegiance, Race, and Sector filters. Also, a Career/Occupation
> field, which could use the Patron generation labels, would make it
> *extremely* useful.
>
> Example searches:
> Non-Aligned - - Human - - Reaver's Deep - - Rogue/Other
> ---> Return: 45
>
> Imperial - - Vargr - - Antares - - Noble
> ---> Return: 1 (Brzk).
I would consider adding one more filter: Milieu.
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 16:08:10 -0500
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: Trade volume heresy
>Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 12:47:23 +1100
>From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
>Subject: Re: Trade volume heresy
>
>> BTN = Min(WTN1,WTN2) + Abs(WTN2-WTN1)/6 + WTCM - Distance Mod.
I tried this out on my usual data set (the Islands Clusters Campaign). The
result was an order of magnitude *less* trade than the straight model from
GT: Far Trader. Total trade dropped from 0.4% of GWP to 0.03%.
>I'm still fiddling with the formula a bit. I get better results
>moving the base WTN's up by 0.5 and raising the divisor to 8.
This is an improvement, but only 50% better than baseline (0.6% of GWP).
>IMTU, the distance modifier will be altered. It is not too bad as it
>stands, but the cost of shipping is rather low in comparison to the
>value of trade goods shipped for trade to drop off so quickly.
<shrug> The so-called Gravity Model (upon which the distance modifier is
based) is an empirical observation: trade (and communications, and travel,
and a bunch of other relationships) in the real world drops off about as
the square of the distance. The actual observed exponent is 1.9, if that
helps.
You'd have to ask Jim about the price of goods shipped vs. shipping costs.
I know there's a reason, but I don't know recall what the relationship is.
Cheers,
Chris
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 16:18:49 -0500
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: Trade volume heresy
>Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 09:43:42 +1100
>From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
>Subject: Re: Trade volume heresy
>
> Starport Class
>UWTN V IV III II I 0
>12+ 0 -0.5 -1 -1.5 -2 -4.5
>10-11.5 0 0 -0.5 -1 -1.5 -4
>8-9.5 +0.5 0 0 -0.5 -1 -3.5
>6-7.5 +0.5 +0.5 0 0 -0.5 -3
>4-5.5 +1 +0.5 +0.5 0 0 -2.5
>2-3.5 +1 +1 +0.5 +0.5 0 0
>< 2 +1.5 +1 +1 +0.5 +0.5 0
Just a note: the Port Modifier for Class 0 ports was set to zero out their
WTN as much as possible, on the theory that Interdicted worlds don't have
enough trade to mention (if any). Since you have changed the Population
Modifier, you will also have to adjust the Class 0 Port Modifier (table or
formula) to match. Also, your formula for BTN can still give a significant
amount of trade for a WTN 0.0 world (up to BTN 3.0 or so), as opposed to
the errate'd cap which tops out at WTN 1.0. Something to consider.
Cheers,
Chris
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 09:04:51 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Trade volume heresy
On Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 04:08:10PM -0500, Christopher Thrash wrote:
> I tried this out on my usual data set (the Islands Clusters Campaign). The
> result was an order of magnitude *less* trade than the straight model from
> GT: Far Trader. Total trade dropped from 0.4% of GWP to 0.03%.
Mine increased from 0.1% to 8%. An exhaustive application to the
sector data from the "grand survey" led to an overall 20% trade/GWP.
After a few more tests, I've located the possible cause of discrepancy
in our data. Mine gives the biggest increase when a couple of big
worlds are near each other. If I downgrade the neighbours (so that
big worlds are only surrounded by little ones), then trade drops to
about the level you describe. This is mainly because the little
worlds (having 100-1000 times less people) can't sustain enough trade
to make up a significant fraction of the big world's economy.
In the standard model, a number of worlds nearby with 1000 times less
people will trade more than a single nearby world with the same
population as the central one.
> <shrug> The so-called Gravity Model (upon which the distance
> modifier is based) is an empirical observation: trade (and
> communications, and travel, and a bunch of other relationships) in
> the real world drops off about as the square of the distance. The
> actual observed exponent is 1.9, if that helps.
That helps a *lot* -- a log-log regression on system data with my
formula yields an exponent of 1.88, so that gives me confidence that
I'm on the right track! :^)
For short distances my formula is almost independent of distance since
travel times are constant, costs negligible, and there is a low
probability that trade with closer worlds will satisfy needs. It
tends toward inverse square as shipping costs and time come to
dominate price of goods, as well as the increasing probability that a
closer world meets needs for any given trade goods.
Over the *very* long haul, I would expect a near-exponential decay as
the diminishing chance of safe arrival of ships would dominate. From
rough calculations this can be ignored over a region as small as the
Imperium given typical rates of ship loss.
Note: if anyone is running a true 3D variant of Traveller, it would be
wise to not use an inverse-square model for trade volumes -- you would
run into a variant of Olbers' paradox. You will get more sane trade
figures by using a roughly inverse-cube relationship.
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 09:22:43 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Trade volume heresy
On Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 04:18:49PM -0500, Christopher Thrash wrote:
> Just a note: the Port Modifier for Class 0 ports was set to zero out their
> WTN as much as possible, on the theory that Interdicted worlds don't have
> enough trade to mention (if any).
> Since you have changed the Population Modifier, you will also have
> to adjust the Class 0 Port Modifier (table or formula) to match.
I did. Remember that a modifier of -2.5 to -4.5 is a reduction by a
factor of 300 to 30000 in trade volume!
> Also, your formula for BTN can still give a significant amount of
> trade for a WTN 0.0 world (up to BTN 3.0 or so), as opposed to the
> errate'd cap which tops out at WTN 1.0. Something to consider.
Does my formula ever produce a WTN of 0? Umm, I don't think so. The
smallest I get is 1, for a world with population code and tech level
of 0 each. If I put it in the same system as a pop A world with GTL
11 and WTCM of +0.5 (highly favourable trade), I get a BTN of 3. This
corresponds to 1000-5000 Cr worth of trade per year, or about 1 dton
per decade.
Do you think this is unrealistically high?
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 16:37:06 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Neutronium Testicles!
On 11/23/00 at 10:38 PM, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:
>> That was possible because of the neutronium testicle he had installed.
>Trust me, that'd be a *real* bad idea. (Cringing at the thought of
>that much weight suspended *that* way).
Given that, I just *have* to do this...
Do your balls hang low, do they wobble to and fro,
Can you tie 'em in a knot, can you tie 'em in a bow,
Can you sling 'em o'er your shoulder like a continental soldier,
Do your balls hang low?
Do your balls hang low, do they wobble to and fro,
Can you tie 'em in a knot, can you tie 'em in a bow,
Do you get a funny feeling when you hang 'em from the ceiling,
Do your balls hang low?
Do your balls hang low, do they wobble to and fro,
Can you tie 'em in a knot, can you tie 'em in a bow,
On, your saddle will they straddle so your semen won't get addled,
Do your balls hang low?
<gd&r>
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 10:14:28 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Trade volume heresy
On Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 04:08:10PM -0500, Christopher Thrash wrote:
> GT: Far Trader. Total trade dropped from 0.4% of GWP to 0.03%.
>
> >I'm still fiddling with the formula a bit. I get better results
> >moving the base WTN's up by 0.5 and raising the divisor to 8.
>
> This is an improvement, but only 50% better than baseline (0.6% of GWP).
That's extremely odd. Raising WTN's by 0.5 should move trade volumes
upward by a factor of 3. The effect on port modifier is sometimes
negative (mostly no change, never positive). The divisor change
should also reduce trade volume sometimes (and never increase it).
How did you get an increase by a factor of 20? Are you sure you are
applying the models correctly?
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 17:17:15 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: RE: Re : Backflow preventers (was Gas Mixtures for Travellers)
On 11/17/00 at 06:29 PM, "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz> said:
>robocon@ozemail.com.au wrote :
>> The tales of people being eviscerated by plumbing are based on real cases.
>>
>> There have been quite a number of incidents where
>> children have sat on inground pool skimmer boxes
>> (a lot of them look like potty chairs), sustaining horrific injuries.
>>
>> This has led to significant design changes here in Australia.
>Ditto New Zealand. Also spa baths have had simialr problems here.
>And then there was the guy who wondered whether the suction would
>feel good...
><grin>
I'm sure you folks read about the guy in the motel swimming pool that decided to insert his penis...and had to be freed by the fire department's "jaws of life."
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 19:11:56 -0600
From: D Smart <dsmart@imagin.net>
Subject: SJG Cardboard Heroes for Traveller
All,
I just got home from the UncommonCon scifi
convention here in Dallas. SJG has a table
set up with a sheet of the new GT Cardboard
Heroes on display (*not* the ones in the
GT GM's screen, which I bought at the table).
One word. WOW!
The artistry is fantastic, including the
vehicles. I thought the earlier medieval
prints were something but the GT are truly
excellent! What's really cool is the "passenger"
characters also have a second, corresponding
rendition labeled "terrorist".
The guy at the booth said Loren was just full
of ideas and SJG was lucky to find him. Wouldn't
be surprised if this was one of them. And, no,
he didn't know I was a member of the TML at the
time he said it, Loren. :)
If anyone can make it out tonight, there is a
4-hour GT adventure being run by a member of
SJG starting at 8pm. I'd be in it if the hotel
the con is at wasn't 45 minutes away.
Also met Lou Ferrigno and saw a makeup demo which
turned one of the Babylon 5/Deep Space 9/Voyager
"prosthetic" actors into a Narn. The actor's
first name was Bill and he's played a Narn
(one of G'kar's bodyguards or aides), a Minbari
(one of each kind, including a Ranger), a
Jemadar on DS9, and a Klingon in an upcoming
Voyager episode!
After seeing the effort both went to during the
3-hour makeup session, makeup artists and
prosthetic actors now have my undying respect
and admiration. Amazing!
David
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 15:41:03 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
On 24 Nov 2000, at 10:08, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> Except I'm not diabetic. I have sleep apnea. So without my CPAP unit,
> I quit breathing when I'm asleep. About 90 times an hour. Which means
> that my body is constantly having to come "half awake" to get my
> breathing started again after the "your suffocating" alarms go off.
>
> The result is a *lot* of stress on the body, and being very tired even
> after as much as 14 hours of sleep. I used tofall asleep sitting in
> front of the computer, sometimes in the middle of a message.
>
> And the stress and fatigue result in clinical depressision, weight
> gain, and things like an enlarged heart (which *will* kill you given
> time).
Well the hard work will probably keep the weight off, but that enlarged
heart'll go real quick.
As a hayfever sufferer and part-time ashmatic I'm really glad I live in a first-
world country with cheap anti-hisamines for the hay-fever and assorted
inhalers, etc for the ashma. I'm also glad I don't have to live and work in
open country-side filled with pollen producing grass.
- --
Rupert Boleyn
"Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out."
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3328
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3329
Date: | 11/26/00 10:45:39 AM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Sunday, November 26 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3329
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Plasma Rockets
Re: G:T Products
Re: G:T Products
RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Plasma Rockets
RE: Question (Imperial Guard)
Re: Plasma Rockets
Hours in the Day
Re: Plasma Rockets
Re: Hours in the Day
Re: Hours in the Day
Re: Who's Who
RE: Rolling ships (was: Armour Distribution on Star ships)
ping
message test
RE: ping
Re: ping
Re: ping
Re: ping
Re: Who's Who a Couple of Possible Entries
Re: Hours in the Day
Re: Hours in the Day
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 15:41:03 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
On 24 Nov 2000, at 9:18, Bruce Johnson wrote:
> Or it turns out that that 'nuclear winter' anti-nuke scare crap turns out
> to be real. Oops! No crop next year! Hope you got lots of canned beans!
And it doesn't need to be much of a 'winter' at the right time of the year to
wreck just about every northern hemisphere grain crop for the year.
- --
Rupert Boleyn
"Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out."
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 16:06:00 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Plasma Rockets
On 24 Nov 2000, at 21:23, James Jensen wrote:
> Check out this NASA press release:
> http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/spacenews/releases/h00-91.html
>
> Can anyone say "HEPlaR"? GTL 9, here we come!
To hell with GTL 9, that's Trav TL10! Now all we need is that darn jump-drive
and we can go kick some Vilani butt.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 16:06:00 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: G:T Products
On 24 Nov 2000, at 20:55, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
> Keep in mind that GT is GURPS first and Traveller second. First
> In's system gen system is probably more accurate, but it is GURPS
> Space oriented rather than Traveller. Useful, but no a WBH
> replacement...IMO.
>
> Far Trader is also useful, but you have to do a lot of converting to
> get it to interface with other versions of Traveller rules. That's
> not surprising.
That wouldn't be a problem, as if I were to run a Trav game with GT I'd build
all the details with GT stuff. The big question becomes whether it's worth the
bother, or would it be less hastle to do something I've been meaning to for a
long time and do a decent 2300AD to GURPS conversion.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 16:12:11 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: G:T Products
On 24 Nov 2000, at 22:56, JFZeigler@aol.com wrote:
> Might you be confusing that with the "commando battle dress" in
> Star Mercs? I *have* heard a lot of complaining about that one.
Could be - as I said I haven't been paying a lot of attention to GT.
> The "scout expedition dress" is basically just an armored vacc
> suit with a lift-belt built in and a fair amount of stealth and sensory
> equipment. It's much lighter than the battledress given in the core
> GURPS Traveller book, to say nothing of the Star Mercs battledress.
> I don't see what's so non-canonical about the idea, unless we're
> counting as "non-canonical" anything that never appeared in CT
> material. In which case, mea culpa -- I didn't realize that we
> weren't allowed to come up with new material, even if it makes
> sense :-).
That would describe 'true canon', yes :) As a TNE type I naturally maintain
that if you can't design it using FFS1 (using the 'standard' traveller tech)
it's automatically non-canon :)
- --
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 16:13:24 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
On 25 Nov 2000, at 17:03, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
> On 25 Nov 00, at 16:07, Frank G. Pitt wrote:
>
> > Our biggest problem would be keeping our air force and navy operational to
> > deal with all the "boat-people" from the US trying to crash our place. Perhaps
> > we could convince the remnants Pacific fleet to change sides with a promise of
> > a new home-port ?
>
> No Frank, our biggest problem would be how to *expand* the military.
Hire Fijians for grunts. As long as we control the sea and skies they can do
all the crap work. Anything that they won't do we'll get the Aussies to do for
us :)
- --
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 16:15:53 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Plasma Rockets
On 25 Nov 2000, at 7:30, Christopher Thrash wrote:
> Aside from the fact that the VASIMR has a projected specific impulse around
> 20,000 seconds, while for HEPlaR the figure is 4,100,000 seconds (with an
> effective exhaust velocity of 0.13c)? Or that HEPlaR produces more energy in the
> form of thrust than it consumes, while specifically not invoking fusion?
You're such as spoil-sport :)
- --
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 23:10:15 -0500
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com>
Subject: RE: Question (Imperial Guard)
Do you know how much information is given in canon products? I'd like to do
an article on them, but know that SJG can't buy anything that infringes on
<spit>'s copyrights. I don't mind dancing around his fence if it will put
the Guard solidly back in canon. I just have to make sure all my source
information is based on legally licensed products.
Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost
At 02:53 PM 11/24/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>I'm looking for information on the Emperor's Guard. Research seems to
>indicate that DGP's Travellers' Digest #9 has some information on this
>subject, but unfortunately I don't have a copy. I was hoping for some
>coverage in GT:GF, but it wasn't covered. TNS at SJG has some information
on
>the Guard.
I couldn't cover the Guard in details, since the deatails were all given in
a DGP product. Rather than try to squirm around The Jerk, I just left them
out except for a mention or two.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 23:24:01 -0500
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: Plasma Rockets
>Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 09:30:34 -0600
>From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Plasma Rockets
>
>The problem is that you'll never be able to carry enough fuel to get even to
>Mars unless you're willing to take a year. So, in effect, this is _less_
>efficient than VASIMR, which is supposed to allow a trip to Mars in three
>months, under constant acceleration and deceleration, just like in
>Traveller.
"On a mission to Mars, such a [VASIMR] rocket would continuously accelerate
through the first half of its voyage, then reverse its attitude and slow
down during the second half. The flight could take slightly over three
months. A conventional chemical mission would take seven to eight months
and involve long periods of unpowered drift en route."
Sure, constant acceleration and deceleration -- about 0.003g's worth,
depending on launch window, for a total dV of ~230km/s. This requires that
the vessel be about 70% hydrogen reaction mass by weight, assuming Isp =
20,000s is about right (my figure, from reading tables in the full article;
it might be as high as 30,000s, which would cut the reaction mass fraction
to ~54%).
The downrated HEPlaR I proposed had an Isp around 280,000s, and requires
only 8% of the initial mass be hydrogen to make the same trip (dV =
230km/s). You decide which is more "efficient."
Hohman orbits to Mars require only dV = 13.5km/s at most (no aerobraking,
etc.), and take no more than 9 months. Chemical rockets (with Isp < 470s)
are clearly "able to carry enough fuel" for this mission -- more is nice,
but not necessary at all.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 22:02:33 -0800
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: Hours in the Day
Reflecting upon our recent RSSP game in which we learned that Regina has
25.5 hours in its day, I started wondering about how other planets which
also have more than 24 hours in their days handle it. I will assume that the
work day is about six to eight hours in most (but perhaps not all) high-TL
civilizations. The problem that I personally face is that there are more
things that I want to do than fit into a 24 hour day. In fact I did a quick
calculation and it turns out that I would need about 32 hours per day to do
all of the things that I want to do. You have to work for a few hours. You
want to spend time with your family. You want to eat meals. You have
administrative overhead, like paying bills, shopping, etc. I personally
would like to find the time to do a bit of research again. Some of us like
to spend time on frivolous pursuits like gaming. Some of us spend a lot of
time this way.
The obvious solution to this problem is to move to a planet which a day of
the right length, in my case, about 32 hours. People apparently have a
natural 25 hour cycle, but we can easily adapt to the 24 hour cycle we have
today. Maybe 32 hours is pushing this too far. There must be some limit to
our ability to adapt to longer days.
On the other hand, if you are a business, it may be in your interest to be
based on a planet where days are shorter than 24 hours. Suppose that the day
is 20 hours long, but you still get 8 hours per day of work out of your
employees. Since your days are shorter than standard days, you get more work
done in a shorter time than your competitors that are on worlds with 24 hour
days, since six of your days pass for every five of his.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 00:18:58 -0800
From: sneadj@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: Plasma Rockets
"James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Aside from the fact that the VASIMR has a projected specific impulse
> around
> > 20,000 seconds, while for HEPlaR the figure is 4,100,000 seconds
> > (with an effective exhaust velocity of 0.13c)? Or that HEPlaR
> > produces more energy in the form of thrust than it consumes, while
> > specifically not invoking fusion?
> >
> > Actually, if you reduce the thrust on the HEPlaR from 20 tons per
> > MWatt to 1 ton per MWatt, but leave everything else the same, you'd
> > have a pretty plausible extension of the VASIMR concept.
> >
> The problem is that you'll never be able to carry enough fuel to get
> even to Mars unless you're willing to take a year. So, in effect, this
> is _less_ efficient than VASIMR, which is supposed to allow a trip to
> Mars in three months, under constant acceleration and deceleration,
> just like in Traveller.
Why? With an ISP of 4 million even a very small amount of
reaction mass will get you going going quite fast. 1 ton of
thrust/MW means either low thrust or a *really* powerful reactor,
but it still seems pretty reasonable.
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 19:45:44 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Hours in the Day
On Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 10:02:33PM -0800, Luther Martin wrote:
> Reflecting upon our recent RSSP game in which we learned that Regina has
> 25.5 hours in its day, I started wondering about how other planets which
> also have more than 24 hours in their days handle it.
There is quite a lot of science finction on the topic, and some
serious research. We can assume that people have a reasonable range
of adaptation, say 16-40 hours per day. Most planets will probably
have day lengths of 16 hours or more. At the long end though, people
will probably have to sleep during daylight hours as well as night.
> I will assume that the work day is about six to eight hours in most
> (but perhaps not all) high-TL civilizations.
Work hours are another situation entirely. These are largely
determined by social concerns rather than biological ones. Work
periods of 14 hour length are possible over the long term, but leave
little time for anything other than sleep with a 24-hour day. This is
probably close to the upper limit for useful long-term work even on
planets with longer day length due to fatigue problems.
Shorter work periods are trivial. I worked for about 2 years in
afternoons only (3 hours per day). The lower limit is probably
dictated by the administrative problems of coordinating people who
work for short periods of time and by the economic concerns of
employees.
> Suppose that the day is 20 hours long, but you still get 8 hours per
> day of work out of your employees.
Assuming the employees still want about 8 hours sleep (which seems
likely), then they are probably unhappy at only having 4 hours instead
of 8 between work and sleep to fit everything else in, including
getting to work. This will probably be bad for morale and
productivity. If they get paid the same amount on your competitor's
planet, what's to stop them moving to where conditions are better?
You would probably have happier workers on a 28-hour planet with
10-hour work days since they get 10 hours for other stuff instead of
just 8. You are also better off because you get 25% more worker time
per day, and the days are only 17% longer so you have a net 8%
productivity increase over a 24-hour world.
I suspect that at high TLs, it would take next to nothing to earn
enough to live on. Already it is possible to work only 15 hours per
week and still have money for savings. Not a rich lifestyle, but
enough to survive, study at University for pleasure, read lots, be
involved in sporting activities, and have a permanent Internet
connection with enough left over for investments to continue the same
standard of living after ceasing work.
At higher tech levels, increasingly efficient production of many goods
will almost certainly mean that it will take less paid work to be
assured of day-to-day survival for oneself and family.
I don't know what the realistic social effects would be. We are
probably only just starting to see glimpses of the effects on society.
Certainly many science fiction writers have explored the theme, with
results ranging over hundreds of possibilities.
Probably the real thing will partake of all of them in some form, and
be more complex than any one person could visualise. I can easily
imagine TL11 planets where the inhabitants work 2-hour days for better
living standards than our own, and planets of the same TL where they
work at a feverish rat-race pace with 12-hour standard work days and
frequent overtime. Or even having both in the same society.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 12:16:12 +0100
From: "Tage Borg" <tage@hem.passagen.se>
Subject: Re: Hours in the Day
[snip!]
> In fact I did a quick
> calculation and it turns out that I would need about 32 hours per day to
do
> all of the things that I want to do.
The Vilani way. Move to Vland ;-)
[snip!]
/Tage
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 11:23:13 +1100
From: "Karen and Michael Hughes" <kmhughes@dynamite.com.au>
Subject: Re: Who's Who
Cool - me like idea of an online repository of personalities that are easy
to grab (and being tailored towards race, occupation, sector and milieu).
One possible suggestion - make the info contained within fairly generic -
instead of minutely detailed skill & stat sets, just infer what abilities
they have (shudder - this comes from TSR - apologies rendered). That way all
game mechanics can be covered and tailored for taste - from classic & MT
through to New Era, T4 or GURPS.
Okay here's an example.
Tab Volet, Artist (Beat Poet) Milieu: Any Sector: Any
A human male of mixed origin in his mid 40's (though the occasional facial
growth reveals he is a user of anagathics). Well educated and a noted
intellectual, Tab received TAS membership as a gift from a wealthy patron
and subsequently toured TAS hostels on many different worlds to deliver his
unique brand of artistry. Be-spectacled (data-display's that feed his lines
from his hand computer), with beret, black turtleneck sweater and armed with
a three string cello, his work bemuses and intrigues many - especially Vargr
who greet his performances with howls of delight. Tab ends every 'show' with
an offer to download his best of holo-chit to a Traveller's computer for the
low price of 20Cr. He lives for his work and seeks new experiences with
which to transform into poetry.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 13:17:01 -0000
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net>
Subject: RE: Rolling ships (was: Armour Distribution on Star ships)
Subject: Rolling ships (was: Armor Distribution on Starships)
>>
This came up recently on the Traveller Full Thrust list.
Regards PLST
<<
hi there can any please help me towards enlisting to Full thrust mailing
list : )
Thank you
Mike
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net
ICQ#27333894
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 08:18:30 -0500
From: Eric Freitas <efreitos@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: ping
Anybody out there?
- --
Eric Freitas
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 08:29:06 -0500
From: Eric Freitas <efreitos@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: message test
Sorry, I'm testing my new subscription...
- --
Eric Freitas
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 13:30:03 -0000
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net>
Subject: RE: ping
Subject: ping
>>
Anybody out there?
- --
Eric Freitas
<<
Hello Eric.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 08:49:11 -0500
From: Eric Freitas <efreitos@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: ping
Hi,
just managed to resubscribe after changing ISP's. I've been off the list
for more than a month. Any firestorms brewing out there?
On Sunday 26 November 2000 08:30, you wrote:
> Subject: ping
>
>
> Anybody out there?
- --
Eric Freitas
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 03:32:35 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: ping
On 26 Nov 00, at 8:49, Eric Freitas wrote:
> Hi,
> just managed to resubscribe after changing ISP's. I've been off the list for
> more than a month. Any firestorms brewing out there?
<takes deep breath, places tongue firmly in check>
Well, the rights to Traveller have been traded for a geniune set of pointy
ears autographed by Patrick Stewart and the 3rd Imperium is to be
renamed Star Trek - The Weird Generation, but apart from that nothing
much has happened.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 10:26:49 -0500
From: Eric Freitas <efreitos@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: ping
On Sunday 26 November 2000 09:32, you wrote:
> On 26 Nov 00, at 8:49, Eric Freitas wrote:
> > Hi,
> > just managed to resubscribe after changing ISP's. I've been off the
> > list for more than a month. Any firestorms brewing out there?
>
> <takes deep breath, places tongue firmly in check>
>
> Well, the rights to Traveller have been traded for a geniune set of pointy
> ears autographed by Patrick Stewart and the 3rd Imperium is to be
> renamed Star Trek - The Weird Generation, but apart from that nothing
> much has happened.
UGH... I guess I can burn all my Trav books then... ;)'
- --
Eric Freitas
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 12:45:01 -0500
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net>
Subject: Re: Who's Who a Couple of Possible Entries
Was written:
>Cool - me like idea of an online repository of personalities that are easy
>to grab (and being tailored towards race, occupation, sector and milieu).
>One possible suggestion - make the info contained within fairly generic -
>instead of minutely detailed skill & stat sets, just infer what abilities
>they have (shudder - this comes from TSR - apologies rendered). That way
all
>game mechanics can be covered and tailored for taste - from classic & MT
>through to New Era, T4 or GURPS.
Here two of my suggestion per the above from a project I am doing which I
have titled 101 Villains. Please tell me what you think.
Provide Name as desired (I call him Mr. Innocuous), Politician/Bureaucrat
Milieu: Any Sector: Any
Human male apparently in his late 40s who works in the Imperial Commerce
Commission or the agency which in your traveller universe, certifies the
routing of jump routes, star port Code levels, and the designation of tech
levels of planets. He is also involved in trade interdictions, and the
caution level coding of planets.
He gives the impression of having no ideas and no enemies but that is an
impression only. He is a master of subterfuge and deception skills
developed to a fine edge from years of survival in the watch your back while
shafting others world of imperial bureaucracy. The son, grandson and
great-grandson of mid level bureaucrats in the Imperial Commerce Commission
he moved into that agency when he came of age and rose steadily within its
ranks. Never allying himself to strongly early in his career with any of
the various power brokers within the agency he lived within their shadows.
When one of the prime factions seemed to self destruct in a battle for
control after the loss of its leader and numerous of his lieutenants in a
miss jump accident he made his move. He restored the faction to power with
himself as the "power behind the throne" though a masterful series of back
channel tradeoffs, vague promises and whispered lies. Even the insiders
were surprised. It was said, “He came to power in a slight of hand.
Everyone’s attention was focused elsewhere and then when everyone looked
back he was there. It was as if he had been there all the time and no one
had ever really noticed.”
The PCs might encounter him directly or more likely indirectly as a patron.
They might also mayhaps run afoul of him in a "merchant enterprise". He is
very well connected and might be encountered in a posh but very discrete
resort, restaurant, hotel, casino etc. He might seek to use the PCs as
disposable pawns.
Provide Name as desired (I call him The Master Frog), Gangster/IImperial
Informant Milieu: Post any of the Frontier Wars (I intended the FFW when I
wrote this) Sector: Any
Human male apparently in his early 40's.
It has been said that it is possible, by both a leap logic and personal
ethic, to claim that even this master of personal survival has some
redeeming qualities. After all, even the people he has killed would tell
you, if they could, that he is a most charming individual. He was the first
key member of the preeminent crime syndicate in the Marches to turn on the
organization and cooperate, first with local then Imperial authorities to
bring hundreds of the organization’s bosses to trial.
Arrested after the war for smuggling prohibited materials he was first
formally questioned by senior planetary customs officials who quickly
released him to the Imperial Ministry of Justice (IMJ). Once he decided to
cut a deal he made the most of it. He talked for 63 days, naming names,
tying them to actions and providing to Imperial officials an unprecedented
view of the power structure of organized crime’s tentacles throughout the
Marches.
In the flimsies ("paper" news magazines IMTU) called the “Duke of Duplicity”
, he sees himself as a man of integrity. Before the war the criminal Clans
enforced the code, were comfortable and everyone knew his place, what was
allowed and what was not. In the chaos following the war, after the Clans
were partially decimated by the Zho, everything changed. According to him
shortsighted greed coupled with a lack of respect destroyed the code of
loyalty and honor.
His criminal career began well before the war when he dealt in smuggled
goods, goods for which the only qualifiers were that they were valuable and
of concern only to planetary authorities. “We stayed clear of pirated goods
and anything that was stolen from Imperial bonded warehouses.” he said in
one interview. He, with the tacit assent of his surviving bosses, helped
during the war in the liberation of the Marches. He gained wealth and
influence by providing from the background key information on how to get
“packages” on and off worlds, where the holes in system security were, who
could be trusted as having not been turned by the Zho, and how far they
would go to aid in the resistance and final liberation. He was considered
an invaluable asset by his Imperial handlers yet at that time they generally
only knew him through intermediaries.
The planetary authorities in many systems for various reasons greatly want
to indite officials who have been on the take from the Clans. The Clans
influence in local politics goes back well before the war. The Clans
offered their support to the liberating Imperial forces who were glad to
find such staunch allies against the Zho. These contacts flourished through
out the conflict.
Making the most of his wartime Imperial connections after being arrested, he
sought and quickly received the status of an Imperial Protected Witness.
He was given a secret residence, lives in high comfort and is provided with
bodyguards whenever the Impies decide to lend him out as a star witness in
local trials. His revelations have thus coincided with the local trials of
hundreds of planetary politicians and government officials. His testimony,
under the guidance of his Imperial sponsors, continues to substantially
alter much of the post-war planetary political establishments in the
Marches.
The PCs might encounter him as being employed as his body guards or as above
he might be encountered in a posh but very discrete resort, restaurant,
hotel, casino etc. As he is occasionally moved to testify in various trials
around the Marches their ship might be chartered to discretely and covertly
provide him passage. On the flip side they might be used as a set up to
divert attention while he actually travels by other means. This man has
many powerful enemies, all of which want him dead by any means available.
Dan
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 09:45:16 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Hours in the Day
In mail you write:
> Reflecting upon our recent RSSP game in which we learned that Regina has
> 25.5 hours in its day, I started wondering about how other planets which
> also have more than 24 hours in their days handle it. I will assume that the
> work day is about six to eight hours in most (but perhaps not all) high-TL
> civilizations. The problem that I personally face is that there are more
> things that I want to do than fit into a 24 hour day. In fact I did a quick
> calculation and it turns out that I would need about 32 hours per day to do
> all of the things that I want to do. You have to work for a few hours. You
> want to spend time with your family. You want to eat meals. You have
> administrative overhead, like paying bills, shopping, etc. I personally
> would like to find the time to do a bit of research again. Some of us like
> to spend time on frivolous pursuits like gaming. Some of us spend a lot of
> time this way.
>
> The obvious solution to this problem is to move to a planet which a day of
> the right length, in my case, about 32 hours. People apparently have a
> natural 25 hour cycle, but we can easily adapt to the 24 hour cycle we have
> today. Maybe 32 hours is pushing this too far. There must be some limit to
> our ability to adapt to longer days.
>
> On the other hand, if you are a business, it may be in your interest to be
> based on a planet where days are shorter than 24 hours. Suppose that the day
> is 20 hours long, but you still get 8 hours per day of work out of your
> employees. Since your days are shorter than standard days, you get more work
> done in a shorter time than your competitors that are on worlds with 24 hour
> days, since six of your days pass for every five of his.
Only works to a limited extent. For one thing, the standard method of
increasing productivity is to work two shifts. Then three, and then
(on earth) go to 24/7 operation (which requires some very weird
schedules).
The same will hold true on *any* planet. Well, the "final step" won't
be 24/7, but it *will* be "continuous operation".
So whatever planet you are on, the length of a shift has to be
something that goes into the length of the day *evenly*. So on a planet
with a "20 hour" day, your choices are:
shifts length of shift
- ------ ---------------
2 10:00:00
3 6:40:00
4 5:00:00
5 4:00:00
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 09:58:31 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Hours in the Day
In mail you write:
> On Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 10:02:33PM -0800, Luther Martin wrote:
>> Reflecting upon our recent RSSP game in which we learned that Regina has
>> 25.5 hours in its day, I started wondering about how other planets which
>> also have more than 24 hours in their days handle it.
>
> There is quite a lot of science finction on the topic, and some
> serious research. We can assume that people have a reasonable range
> of adaptation, say 16-40 hours per day. Most planets will probably
> have day lengths of 16 hours or more. At the long end though, people
> will probably have to sleep during daylight hours as well as night.
I assume an a "cutoff" at the point where folks have to sleep more than
once during a sol (local solar day). At that point, folks are going to
use an "offical day" that's half a sol. If the planet has a *really*
long sol (cf H. Beam Piper's Fenris), then they'll either ignore it
(possible on airless worlds) or else use it as their week, month or
"season". That is, it'll be divided *evenly* into "days".
BTW, anybody know what the Latin is for "day" (as in 24 hour period,
not the opposite of night). I can see that we need *three* words:
1. day: 24 standard hours
2. sol: local solar day (ie average time from noon to noon)
3. ???: period used as "local day" when the sol is unreasonably long
(or short)
>> I will assume that the work day is about six to eight hours in most
>> (but perhaps not all) high-TL civilizations.
> Work hours are another situation entirely. These are largely
> determined by social concerns rather than biological ones. Work
> periods of 14 hour length are possible over the long term, but leave
> little time for anything other than sleep with a 24-hour day. This is
> probably close to the upper limit for useful long-term work even on
> planets with longer day length due to fatigue problems.
> Shorter work periods are trivial. I worked for about 2 years in
> afternoons only (3 hours per day). The lower limit is probably
> dictated by the administrative problems of coordinating people who
> work for short periods of time and by the economic concerns of
> employees.
As noted in another message, since you need to be able to run multiple
shifts in a sane manner, the shift length has to be something that goes
*evenly* into the local day.
>> Suppose that the day is 20 hours long, but you still get 8 hours per
>> day of work out of your employees.
>
> Assuming the employees still want about 8 hours sleep (which seems
> likely), then they are probably unhappy at only having 4 hours instead
> of 8 between work and sleep to fit everything else in, including
> getting to work. This will probably be bad for morale and
> productivity. If they get paid the same amount on your competitor's
> planet, what's to stop them moving to where conditions are better?
> You would probably have happier workers on a 28-hour planet with
> 10-hour work days since they get 10 hours for other stuff instead of
> just 8. You are also better off because you get 25% more worker time
> per day, and the days are only 17% longer so you have a net 8%
> productivity increase over a 24-hour world.
But you'd make running multiple shifts a *major* pain. 2 10 hour shifts
and one 8 hour shift is going make it really hard to get folks for the
"short" shift (easily observed anywhere on earth that has a "short
shift" as part of a schedule). And be a bookkeeping hassle as well.
More likely divisions:
shifts length
- ------ --------
2 14:00:00 (unlikely!)
3 09:20:00
4 07:00:00
5 05:36:00
6 04:40:00
7 04:00:00
> I suspect that at high TLs, it would take next to nothing to earn
> enough to live on. Already it is possible to work only 15 hours per
> week and still have money for savings. Not a rich lifestyle, but
> enough to survive, study at University for pleasure, read lots, be
> involved in sporting activities, and have a permanent Internet
> connection with enough left over for investments to continue the same
> standard of living after ceasing work.
Where do *you* live? Here, it's not possible to afford an apartment on
that little work unless you get a very much above normal hourly rate.
Heck, you'd have to make $8.33/hr *after* deductions just to pay the
rent on a *cheap* 1 bedroom apartment.
> At higher tech levels, increasingly efficient production of many goods
> will almost certainly mean that it will take less paid work to be
> assured of day-to-day survival for oneself and family.
That I'll agree on *with* the caveat that the society has to take a
sane attitude towards work, as opposed to the (mostly US) "Protestant
work ethic" that says there's something wrong if you aren't spending a
big chunk of your time working.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3329
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3330
Date: | 11/26/00 3:21:43 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Sunday, November 26 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3330
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Hours in a day
Re: Hours in a day
Re: Hours in a day
Re: : )
Newbie Idiot Questions
RE: Hours in the Day
RE: : )
RE: Newbie Idiot Questions
Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
Re: message test
Re: Hours in the Day
Re: Hours in the Day
Re: SJG Cardboard Heroes for Traveller
RE: Newbie Idiot Questions
Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
Re: : )
Re: message test
Re: Hours in a day
Re: Hours in a day
Re: Hours in a day
Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
Re: Hours in the Day
Re: Who's who of Spinward Marches
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 14:08:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca>
Subject: Re: Hours in a day
<Leonard Erickson>
BTW, anybody know what the Latin is for "day" (as in 24 hour period,
not the opposite of night). I can see that we need *three* words:
1. day: 24 standard hours
2. sol: local solar day (ie average time from noon to noon)
3. ???: period used as "local day" when the sol is unreasonably long
(or short)
</LE>
My god, a peice of useless trivia Leonard actually doesn't know? I'm
shocked! :-) I believe it's "diem" as in "carpe diem", but there's going
to be several versions of it. I suspect "diem" is a good one, since it
presumably comes out as "the day that the actor acts upon".
While it makes a nice bit of colour to use "diem", I think folks will
likely go with "standard day" (24 hour) and "local day", meaning either
the sol or the diem depending.
Charles C.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 14:55:34 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Hours in a day
>My god, a peice of useless trivia Leonard actually doesn't know? I'm
>shocked! :-) I believe it's "diem" as in "carpe diem", but there's going
>to be several versions of it. I suspect "diem" is a good one, since it
>presumably comes out as "the day that the actor acts upon".
"Dies" is the basic word, I think. Using a word that looks so much like a
common English word seems unlikely....
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 20:15 +0000 (GMT)
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
Subject: Re: Hours in a day
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.95.1001126140108.28203A-100000@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca>
Greetings dear hearts.
I played in one game in which the DM had decided that as most folk were
spacefarers and didn't live on rotating planets, they'd ditched the
concept of 'days'. They worked solely in 8-hour 'shifts' which had numeric
designations.
Cue a lot of very confused players :-)
Hugs and kisses,
Mexal.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 15:21:22 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: : )
> UGH... I guess I can burn all my Trav books then... ;)'
Also, not owning something related to Traveller is now a felony in all
jurisdictions . . .
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 14:56:40 -0500
From: knightsky@juno.com
Subject: Newbie Idiot Questions
A few quick questions from the peanut gallery (who just signed up for the
list last night)
1) I tried to sign up for the Xboat list as well, but could never get
that to work. Is Xboat still fuctioning as a mailing list?
2) If not, are CT-based questions now allowable on this list?
3) What about T4 and G:T questions?
Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."
________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 15:26:44 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: RE: Hours in the Day
Leonard wrote:
>BTW, anybody know what the Latin is for "day" (as in 24 hour period,
>not the opposite of night). I can see that we need *three* words:
It's "dies".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 12:46:11 -0800
From: "tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@bigfoot.com>
Subject: RE: : )
*Whew*
I _just_ scraped by on that one..
LOL
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of GDWGAMES@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 12:21 PM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: Re: : )
> UGH... I guess I can burn all my Trav books then... ;)'
Also, not owning something related to Traveller is now a felony in all
jurisdictions . . .
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 15:50:55 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: RE: Newbie Idiot Questions
>A few quick questions from the peanut gallery (who just signed up for the
>list last night)
Welcome to the list, Perry.
>1) I tried to sign up for the Xboat list as well, but could never get
>that to work. Is Xboat still fuctioning as a mailing list?
I don't think it has been functioning for some time now.
>2) If not, are CT-based questions now allowable on this list?
Yes. We can discuss Classic Traveller freely these days.
>3) What about T4 and G:T questions?
They're fine too.
Hope you enjoy the list.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 14:58:40 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
knightsky@juno.com wrote:
>
> A few quick questions from the peanut gallery (who just signed up for the
> list last night)
I'm not the owner, but I've been a "squatter" here for years, so
I'm going to try to answer your questions. <g>
> 1) I tried to sign up for the Xboat list as well, but could never get
> that to work. Is Xboat still fuctioning as a mailing list?
No, not the XBoat list that was a spin off from the TML. It got
folded back into the TML when T4 came out...4 years ago. Gee! Was
it *that* long?
There might be a list with that name running on egroups, but I
don't think it focuses on CT oriented subjects like the original
XBoat list. IIRC, it focuses on GT issues.
> 2) If not, are CT-based questions now allowable on this list?
Sure, thing! Lots and lots! <g>
> 3) What about T4 and G:T questions?
Yep, and TNE questions too! Anything about Traveller is welcome.
However, you might want to read the FAQ for a list of "done to
death" topics. Where's that FAQ? Beats me, but someone here can
tell you.
Eris,
the Heretic
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 15:03:22 -0600
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
knightsky@juno.com wrote:
>
> A few quick questions from the peanut gallery (who just signed up for the
> list last night)
>
> 1) I tried to sign up for the Xboat list as well, but could never get
> that to work. Is Xboat still fuctioning as a mailing list?
>
> 2) If not, are CT-based questions now allowable on this list?
>
> 3) What about T4 and G:T questions?
The TML has become ecumenical. All versions of Traveller are now
welcome here.
Your newbie essay assignment is to discuss the relative advantages and
disadvantages of starship deck arrangements: perpendicular or parallel
to the axis of thrust.
BTW, the safety of your keyboard depends on your not eating or drinking
while reading TML posts. You have been warned.
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 15:14:50 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Re: message test
Eric Freitas wrote:
>
> Sorry, I'm testing my new subscription...
> --
> Eric Freitas
@tampabay? You're living in the Tampa area? I'm up near
Pensacola, so I'm about as close to you as I am to New Orleans or
Atlanta. <g>
Eris
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 08:38:58 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Hours in the Day
On Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 09:58:31AM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> BTW, anybody know what the Latin is for "day" (as in 24 hour period,
> not the opposite of night). I can see that we need *three* words:
>
> 1. day: 24 standard hours
> 2. sol: local solar day (ie average time from noon to noon)
> 3. ???: period used as "local day" when the sol is unreasonably long
> (or short)
How about "sol" being the 24-hour day? I believe Traveller uses that
word for Earth's primary star. On the other hand, the association
with Solomani may be a little troublesome in some parts...
> As noted in another message, since you need to be able to run multiple
> shifts in a sane manner, the shift length has to be something that goes
> *evenly* into the local day.
Or at least a reasonable multiple. I worked for a 24/7 industry that
had 8-hour shifts, but offset so that not everyone was leaving at the
same time. With a 20-hour day, 8-hour shifts would be reasonable
(though a little long given sleep requirements). There would be 5
starting times, 4 hours apart.
Also, not all work is full-time industrial. For example, a 'business
day' could be 15 hours out of 35 with some people working all 15 with
a midday break while others change over halfway for 7.5 hour/day
part-time work. Meanwhile, full-time industry could work on 4 shifts
of 8.45 hours. The "8-hour work day" is not even really true on
Earth.
> > You would probably have happier workers on a 28-hour planet with
> > 10-hour work days since they get 10 hours for other stuff instead of
> > just 8. You are also better off because you get 25% more worker time
> > per day, and the days are only 17% longer so you have a net 8%
> > productivity increase over a 24-hour world.
>
> But you'd make running multiple shifts a *major* pain.
Not really. There is no rule that says full-time industry has to use
the same shift length as everyone else, or that each day has an
integral number of shifts.
> Where do *you* live? Here, it's not possible to afford an apartment on
> that little work unless you get a very much above normal hourly rate.
I live in Hobart, Australia. By "apartment", it sounds like you live
in an high-density city area. Yes, rents there are typically very
high. People who want to take it easy shouldn't live there :^)
I made A$15/hr after tax and mandatory superannuation, with rent of
$250/month for a 1 bedroom. In $US terms, I think that's about $8/hr
and $130/month. I didn't have a particularly high-paying job, nor a
low-paying one. The rent was a bit cheaper than average, but not by
much. I know a family with two children who get by on similar job
income (but not as comfortably).
> That I'll agree on *with* the caveat that the society has to take a
> sane attitude towards work, as opposed to the (mostly US) "Protestant
> work ethic" that says there's something wrong if you aren't spending a
> big chunk of your time working.
If that ethic continues, then people will be working far beyond what
they need for survival. I suspect many or even most will continue to
work hard even so, and their efforts will be more productive than
ever.
(That work ethic is present here too; my wife and I are resisting a
fair bit of disapproval in our choice to work less)
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 13:25:35 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Hours in the Day
In mail you write:
> Leonard wrote:
>
>>BTW, anybody know what the Latin is for "day" (as in 24 hour period,
>>not the opposite of night). I can see that we need *three* words:
>
> It's "dies".
Damn. That won't work. Anybody know the Greek?
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 15:48:09 -0600
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: SJG Cardboard Heroes for Traveller
D Smart wrote:
> All,
>
> I just got home from the UncommonCon scifi
> convention here in Dallas. SJG has a table
> set up with a sheet of the new GT Cardboard
> Heroes on display (*not* the ones in the
> GT GM's screen, which I bought at the table).
I was there briefly. How did I miss these?
Hmm. Perhaps I was distracted by the Deluxe
Ogre minature set that I picked up.
> If anyone can make it out tonight, there is a
> 4-hour GT adventure being run by a member of
> SJG starting at 8pm. I'd be in it if the hotel
> the con is at wasn't 45 minutes away.
Phooey. Didn't see that on the schedule and
the SJG booth guys didn't mention it to me,
even after I pointed out that I was one of their
writers. Oh well.
> Also met Lou Ferrigno
I walked by his table twice. I'm not interested
in authographs and didn't have anything to say
to him. Only his 'handler' was sitting with him.
The second time by, he gave me the evil eye.
So I ran away home. ;-)
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 13:51:06 -0800
From: "tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@bigfoot.com>
Subject: RE: Newbie Idiot Questions
Aslo - never buy Near C Rocks from Female Aslan in Comfortable Shoes that
collect penguns from ethically challenged merchants...
- -----Original Message-----
Your newbie essay assignment is to discuss the relative advantages and
disadvantages of starship deck arrangements: perpendicular or parallel
to the axis of thrust.
BTW, the safety of your keyboard depends on your not eating or drinking
while reading TML posts. You have been warned.
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 08:57:25 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
On Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 03:03:22PM -0600, John Groth wrote:
> Your newbie essay assignment is to discuss the relative advantages and
> disadvantages of starship deck arrangements: perpendicular or parallel
> to the axis of thrust.
My current starship was designed with decks perpendicular to the
thrust axis. Unlike any other designs I've seen, said thrust axis
also happens to be the shortest axis of the ship. It has minor
long-axis thrusters for atmospheric maneuvering.
Yes, the ship flies through space like a giant custard pie, speeding
toward a planet ceiling-first. Then it flips over halfway and
continues belly-first as it slows.
In battle it orients the thrusters perpendicular to the enemy to
simultaneously give the best evasive thrust and the lowest
cross-section to their weapons. It also allows both top and belly
turrets to fire at the same target.
I had originally thought that all starships were designed with
perpendicular decks!
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 16:55:30 -0500
From: Eric Freitas <efreitos@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: : )
On Sunday 26 November 2000 15:21, you wrote:
> > UGH... I guess I can burn all my Trav books then... ;)'
>
> Also, not owning something related to Traveller is now a felony in all
> jurisdictions . . .
>
> LKW
<sarcasm>
Wow!! I wish I had lawyers who could write laws like that around here! Just
think, I could run for office, then sue the government into accepting ballots
in MY favor, even if they are blank.... Darn, looks like somebody else
already did that...
</sarcasm>
- --
"The best Imperial Duke, is the one on my payroll",
Anonymous shipping magnate
Eric Freitas
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 17:02:47 -0500
From: Eric Freitas <efreitos@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: message test
On Sunday 26 November 2000 16:14, you wrote:
> @tampabay? You're living in the Tampa area? I'm up near
> Pensacola, so I'm about as close to you as I am to New Orleans or
> Atlanta. <g>
>
> Eris
Yep, the great metropolis of Clearwater, eqidistant from everywhere else in
the universe. He, he, he...
- --
Eric Freitas
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 13:31:01 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Hours in a day
In mail you write:
> <Leonard Erickson>
> BTW, anybody know what the Latin is for "day" (as in 24 hour period,
> not the opposite of night). I can see that we need *three* words:
>
> 1. day: 24 standard hours
> 2. sol: local solar day (ie average time from noon to noon)
> 3. ???: period used as "local day" when the sol is unreasonably long
> (or short)
> </LE>
>
> My god, a peice of useless trivia Leonard actually doesn't know? I'm
> shocked! :-) I believe it's "diem" as in "carpe diem", but there's going
> to be several versions of it. I suspect "diem" is a good one, since it
> presumably comes out as "the day that the actor acts upon".
Doh! I knew that, but didn't "know that I knew it".
> While it makes a nice bit of colour to use "diem", I think folks will
> likely go with "standard day" (24 hour) and "local day", meaning either
> the sol or the diem depending.
My interest is more in having the terms so you can clearly state the
important info in library data, etc.
Planet X calendrical/horological data:
anno: 625.67 standard days
68.25 sols
682.5 diems
sol: 247.5 hours
diem: 1/10th sol, divided into 24 duras
Notes: The sol is used as the local "week", with the anno
(local year) divided into "months" 4 sols long (giving
17 months to the anno). Every 4th year an extra sol is
added to the last month of the year.
Local practice is to have 5 days on, 5 days off, with
different crews on the "day" and "night" shifts.
I came up with the above by picking the length of the sol and anno (in
standard hours and standard days, respectively) at random, then making
"reasonable" decisions about the other figures.
Most places the sol and diem will be the same length. And "sol" or
"day" may be used somewhat interchangeably. Though if they have
anything important that depends on the standard day, they'll make a
point of keeping the two seperate.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 13:45:42 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Hours in a day
In mail you write:
>>My god, a peice of useless trivia Leonard actually doesn't know? I'm
>>shocked! :-) I believe it's "diem" as in "carpe diem", but there's going
>>to be several versions of it. I suspect "diem" is a good one, since it
>>presumably comes out as "the day that the actor acts upon".
>
> "Dies" is the basic word, I think. Using a word that looks so much like a
> common English word seems unlikely....
But "diem" is close enough, I think, even if it *isn't* proper usage.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 13:46:45 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Hours in a day
In mail you write:
> In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.95.1001126140108.28203A-100000@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca>
> Greetings dear hearts.
>
> I played in one game in which the DM had decided that as most folk were
> spacefarers and didn't live on rotating planets, they'd ditched the
> concept of 'days'. They worked solely in 8-hour 'shifts' which had numeric
> designations.
>
> Cue a lot of very confused players :-)
Try "Outcasts of the Heaven Belt". I forget the author. The spacers
used metric time based on seconds, kiloseconds, megaseconds and
gigaseconds.
1 kilosec = 16h 40s
1 megasec = 11d 13h 46m 40s
1 gigasec = 31y 252d 1h 46m 40s
So a reasonable shift length would be 20 kilosecs (a bit over 5.5
hours). Not that much more than a standard 4 hour naval "watch".
A megasec is a "week" equivalent. And a gigasec is a "generation"
equivalent.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 13:56:42 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
In mail you write:
> A few quick questions from the peanut gallery (who just signed up for the
> list last night)
>
> 1) I tried to sign up for the Xboat list as well, but could never get
> that to work. Is Xboat still fuctioning as a mailing list?
Nope. Not for *years*.
> 2) If not, are CT-based questions now allowable on this list?
Yep.
> 3) What about T4 and G:T questions?
Yep.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 13:50:23 -0800
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: Re: Hours in the Day
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> > On the other hand, if you are a business, it may be in your interest to
be
> > based on a planet where days are shorter than 24 hours. Suppose that the
day
> > is 20 hours long, but you still get 8 hours per day of work out of your
> > employees. Since your days are shorter than standard days, you get more
work
> > done in a shorter time than your competitors that are on worlds with 24
hour
> > days, since six of your days pass for every five of his.
>
> Only works to a limited extent. For one thing, the standard method of
> increasing productivity is to work two shifts. Then three, and then
> (on earth) go to 24/7 operation (which requires some very weird
> schedules).
This is certainly not the way things work in professional fields. Maybe you
can run multiple shifts of workers assembling cars, for example, but you
rarely see multiple shifts of accountants, laywers, engineers, etc.
Sometimes, but not often. And these high value-added jobs are probably the
key to the economies of the high-pop, high-tech worlds.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 17:21:54 -0600
From: tim@premier.net
Subject: Re: Who's who of Spinward Marches
Why not just do a big web form. With buttons and pull downs, and a
form to enter the background material. Then send it to the
database to organize and repost it or save it in a searchable
database. Though this will take a little extra work to start but
would save time in the long run since its computerized. Just my
2crs
> I'd be interested in putting up the space. The characters would have
> sent to me in an HTML file that follows a predetermined format--I
> wouldn't be able to take the time to format data to match the theme of
> my Traveller web site--and I'd certainly want final say in rejecting
> submissions that didn't follow the format (and there will be plenty) or
> were too outrageous to be believable.
>
> Kristian
>
> Megan Robertson wrote:
> >
> > In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20001125145516.020286a0@rzmail.uni-trier.de>
> > Greetings dear hearts.
> >
> > An excellent web project... who's got space to spare... time to stick it
> > up.... hmmm.... well, I'm willing to help anyway. Anyone else?
> >
> > Hugs and kisses,
> >
> > Mexal.
>
Tim Reynolds
tim@premier.net
225-334-5063
www.premier.net/~tim
- ------------------------------------------------------------
Knowledge, information, power, words...Flying through
the air, invisible
And suddenly the world was tap dancing on quicksand.
In that case, the prize went to the best dancer
Terry Pratchett: The Fifth Elephant
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3330
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3331
Date: | 11/26/00 8:29:00 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Sunday, November 26 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3331
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
[www] 26 Nov 00 - Freelance Traveller Updated
Re: Who's Who
Re: Who's Who
Re: Paranoia
Shadows Questions
Re: Who's Who a Couple of Possible Entries
Llaekag (Gvurrdon 3040 )
RE: Rolling ships (was: Armour Distribution on Star ships)
Re: cybernetics
RE: Newbie Idiot Questions
RE: Newbie Idiot Questions
Re: Hours in the Day
Re: Hours in the Day
Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
There's a FAQ?
Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
Re: Striker problems
Re: Hours in the Day
Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
Re: Hours in the Day
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 18:26:06 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
Subject: [www] 26 Nov 00 - Freelance Traveller Updated
Freelance Traveller, the Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller® Resource has
posted its most recent update to http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller and
http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/.
This update features:
- The second of the Challenge Adventures has been posted to Active
Measures.
- Ken Pick brings us two new articles - one on modified small craft
designs, and one on how the Displacement Ton is defined, and how it
compares to the size of things in the real world. Find them both in The
Shipyard.
- Chapter seven of Fred Ramen's ongoing serial, The Hostile Stars, has
been posted to Raconteur's Rest.
Your questions, comments, and ideas are always welcome at Freelance
Traveller. Please write to freelancetraveller@yahoo.com with any and all
of them, as we are in the process of reconfiguring the forms, and they may
be temporarily disabled. Freelance Traveller depends on the good will of
Traveller fans both to visit our site and justify our existence, and to
write for us, making our existence possible.
Freelance Traveller is mirrored at http://w3.execnet.com/jeffz.
Freelance Traveller wishes to extend its thanks and appreciation to The
Traveller Downport (http://www.downport.com) and to Executive Network
Information Systems (http://www.execnet.com) for hosting services. Without
organizations willing to cooperate with Freelance Traveller's ever-growing
needs, we would be unable to bring you the articles and other resources
that have made Freelance Traveller one of the premier Traveller sites on
the 'net.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
(Ask me via email about the ILink message network!)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 18:30:53 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
Subject: Re: Who's Who
On Sun, 26 Nov 2000 13:41:06 -0500 (EST), "Karen and Michael Hughes"
<kmhughes@dynamite.com.au> wrote:
>Cool - me like idea of an online repository of personalities that are easy
>to grab (and being tailored towards race, occupation, sector and milieu).
>One possible suggestion - make the info contained within fairly generic -
>instead of minutely detailed skill & stat sets, just infer what abilities
>they have (shudder - this comes from TSR - apologies rendered). That way all
>game mechanics can be covered and tailored for taste - from classic & MT
>through to New Era, T4 or GURPS.
>Okay here's an example.
>Tab Volet, Artist (Beat Poet) Milieu: Any Sector: Any
>A human male of mixed origin in his mid 40's (though the occasional facial
>growth reveals he is a user of anagathics). Well educated and a noted
>intellectual, Tab received TAS membership as a gift from a wealthy patron
>and subsequently toured TAS hostels on many different worlds to deliver his
>unique brand of artistry. Be-spectacled (data-display's that feed his lines
>from his hand computer), with beret, black turtleneck sweater and armed with
>a three string cello, his work bemuses and intrigues many - especially Vargr
>who greet his performances with howls of delight. Tab ends every 'show' with
>an offer to download his best of holo-chit to a Traveller's computer for the
>low price of 20Cr. He lives for his work and seeks new experiences with
>which to transform into poetry.
This is not far off what I envisioned "Up Close And Personal" in Freelance
Traveller to be - so the repository is really already there. Feel free to
peruse the characters that are there, and send me new ones, and I'll put
'em up. Recently, I've been on a twice-per-month cycle of updates; it's
not proving a hardship. I will guarantee at least one update per month, or
advance notice to the TML (and maybe rgf.announce) if I know I'm going to
miss a month.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
(Ask me via email about the ILink message network!)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 18:32:55 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
Subject: Re: Who's Who
On Sun, 26 Nov 2000 13:41:06 -0500 (EST), "Karen and Michael Hughes"
<kmhughes@dynamite.com.au> wrote:
>Cool - me like idea of an online repository of personalities that are easy
>to grab (and being tailored towards race, occupation, sector and milieu).
>One possible suggestion - make the info contained within fairly generic -
>instead of minutely detailed skill & stat sets, just infer what abilities
>they have (shudder - this comes from TSR - apologies rendered). That way all
>game mechanics can be covered and tailored for taste - from classic & MT
>through to New Era, T4 or GURPS.
>Okay here's an example.
>Tab Volet, Artist (Beat Poet) Milieu: Any Sector: Any
P.S. - Can I take this one and put him/her into Up Close and Personal at
Freelance Traveller?
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
(Ask me via email about the ILink message network!)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 10:44:42 +1000
From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au
Subject: Re: Paranoia
On Wed, 22 Nov 2000
"Bruce Macintosh" wrote:
>> (Say -- Paranoia also
>> postulated a survivable nuclear war . . . how come it wasn't a crime against
>> humanity?).
>
>Paranoia's world-ending disaster was actually technically an asteroid
>impact against a peaceful computer-controlled world...
Why - whoever told you that, citizen?
<g,d & r>
Graeme
######################################################################
Attention:
This e-mail is privileged and confidential. If you are not the
intended recipient please delete the message and notify the sender.
Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author.
######################################################################
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 18:50:52 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: Shadows Questions
For GMs 2 questions:)
Is there some connection to the Ancients and the pyramid? I read through the
module last night againbut didnt see anything mentioned. I thought that
elsewhere, I had seen the Shadows is part of a trilogy with Adv 3 and Adv 12?
Just wondering?
Has anyone run this in GT? Any hints? I saw that BtC p.83 lists the
atmosphere as fluroine...VERY tough on the PCs....
Thanks!
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 19:13:11 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
Subject: Re: Who's Who a Couple of Possible Entries
On Sun, 26 Nov 2000 13:41:06 -0500 (EST), "Daniel Phelps"
<phelpsd@gate.net> wrote:
>Here two of my suggestion per the above from a project I am doing which I
>have titled 101 Villains. Please tell me what you think.
>Provide Name as desired (I call him Mr. Innocuous), Politician/Bureaucrat
>Milieu: Any Sector: Any
>Provide Name as desired (I call him The Master Frog), Gangster/IImperial
>Informant Milieu: Post any of the Frontier Wars (I intended the FFW when I
>wrote this) Sector: Any
May I put these two in "Up Close and Personal"? As they need names for
that section, I would propose that "Mr. Innocuous" be named Ham Sinclair
(distorted from "Hombre Sin Color", colorless man) and "The Master Frog" go
in as "Geoff Ranna" (a distortion from "jefe rana", chief frog).
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
(Ask me via email about the ILink message network!)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 19:46:14 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: Llaekag (Gvurrdon 3040 )
I saw this world on Anothony's Map site (http://maps.grandsurvey.com/ )
last night but noted it isn't on the sector map in AM3? :) Which one is
incorrect? :)
I hope I noted the map location correctly in the subject line...
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 00:48:24 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Rolling ships (was: Armour Distribution on Star ships)
Michael Scanlon wrote:
> hi there can any please help me towards enlisting to Full thrust
> mailing list : )
If you mean the Traveller/Full Thrust list you can subscribe by
going to Onelist and calling up the Traveller_FullThrust group.
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 11:45:10 +1100
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: cybernetics
Dear Jeffrey -
You wrote:
>In short, I'd like to know what people believe
>the 3I's medical, genetic, and cybernetic technological capabilities are.
Sorry for the late response. I haven't even read ahead to see if anyone has
already answered this query. Here's a start:
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw/libdata/clonfram.htm
This is the initial canon about Replacement Body Parts (which gets me a
mention on the Discovery Channel's web site!).
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 21:32:04 -0500
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com>
Subject: RE: Newbie Idiot Questions
>> A few quick questions from the peanut gallery (who just signed up for the
>> list last night)
>
>
>However, you might want to read the FAQ for a list of "done to
>death" topics. Where's that FAQ? Beats me, but someone here can
>tell you.
>
>Eris,
> the Heretic
The FAQ can be found at:
http://www.vectis.demon.co.uk/traveller/faq/tml-faq.html
Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 21:02:50 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: RE: Newbie Idiot Questions
On 11/26/00 at 09:32 PM, "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com> said:
>>However, you might want to read the FAQ for a list of "done to
>>death" topics. Where's that FAQ? Beats me, but someone here can
>>tell you.
>>Eris,
>> the Heretic
>The FAQ can be found at:
>http://www.vectis.demon.co.uk/traveller/faq/tml-faq.html
See? I told you someone would tell you. <g>
Eris,
the Heretic
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 18:48:57 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Hours in the Day
In mail you write:
> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>>> On the other hand, if you are a business, it may be in your
>>> interest to be based on a planet where days are shorter than 24
>>> hours. Suppose that the day is 20 hours long, but you still get 8
>>> hours per day of work out of your employees. Since your days are
>>> shorter than standard days, you get more work done in a shorter
>>> time than your competitors that are on worlds with 24 hour days,
>>> since six of your days pass for every five of his.
>>
>> Only works to a limited extent. For one thing, the standard method of
>> increasing productivity is to work two shifts. Then three, and then
>> (on earth) go to 24/7 operation (which requires some very weird
>> schedules).
>
> This is certainly not the way things work in professional fields.
> Maybe you can run multiple shifts of workers assembling cars, for
> example, but you rarely see multiple shifts of accountants, laywers,
> engineers, etc.
Try doctors and nurses. And you'd better believe that there are
engineers around any time certain types of gear are being run.
The fact is that most (but not all) "professional" jobs are things that
folks can live with having available only part of the time.
And in any case, from the way he was talking about getting more done, I
(and apparently many others) took it to be a reference to *production*
jobs.
Especially given that "professionals" outside the medical profession
and other "24/7" situations *don't* work 8 hours a day. They work
what's needed to get the job done on time. Many companies *expect* 60
hour weeks from salaried professionals.
> Sometimes, but not often. And these high value-added jobs are
> probably the key to the economies of the high-pop, high-tech worlds.
While a certain number of such jobs are needed, most of the jobs you
listed have *nothing* to do with "adding value".
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 18:55:54 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Hours in the Day
In mail you write:
> On Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 09:58:31AM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> BTW, anybody know what the Latin is for "day" (as in 24 hour period,
>> not the opposite of night). I can see that we need *three* words:
>>
>> 1. day: 24 standard hours
>> 2. sol: local solar day (ie average time from noon to noon)
>> 3. ???: period used as "local day" when the sol is unreasonably long
>> (or short)
>
> How about "sol" being the 24-hour day? I believe Traveller uses that
> word for Earth's primary star. On the other hand, the association
> with Solomani may be a little troublesome in some parts...
Too late. Sol is *already* the official term for a "solar day". It's
used for recording data from the various Mars landers for example.
>> As noted in another message, since you need to be able to run multiple
>> shifts in a sane manner, the shift length has to be something that goes
>> *evenly* into the local day.
>
> Or at least a reasonable multiple. I worked for a 24/7 industry that
> had 8-hour shifts, but offset so that not everyone was leaving at the
> same time. With a 20-hour day, 8-hour shifts would be reasonable
> (though a little long given sleep requirements). There would be 5
> starting times, 4 hours apart.
Won't work. At desk (or machine) A, you have person one come in at
0:00. At 8:00 he's replaced by person 2. Who is replaced at 16:00.
Except that there are only 4 hours until the end of the day.
Sure, this can be handled by complex scheduling, but it's *much*
simpler for *everyone* to just have shifts that go evenly into the day.
Your industry is obviously one that doesn't need to keep a fixed number
of machines in full use. It may be able to afford idle desks or
"positions".
> Also, not all work is full-time industrial. For example, a 'business
> day' could be 15 hours out of 35 with some people working all 15 with
> a midday break while others change over halfway for 7.5 hour/day
> part-time work. Meanwhile, full-time industry could work on 4 shifts
> of 8.45 hours. The "8-hour work day" is not even really true on
> Earth.
Sure, at one job, we handled 24/7 by various combos of 12 hr shifts.
One schedule was so arcane you needed a chart to follow it (all I
recall is that in the two week cycle, the days you had *off* one week
were the days you had *on* the next.
The one I was on was simple. My schedule was Sunday-Tuesday on, and
working every other Wednesday. Obviously, there was another crew that
worked the wednesdays we didn't, as Thursday-Saturday. And two other
crews on the same schedules, but the other half of the day. But at
least our friends and relatives didn't need a chart to tell if we were
working or not (except for Wednesday).
>>> You would probably have happier workers on a 28-hour planet with
>>> 10-hour work days since they get 10 hours for other stuff instead of
>>> just 8. You are also better off because you get 25% more worker time
>>> per day, and the days are only 17% longer so you have a net 8%
>>> productivity increase over a 24-hour world.
>>
>> But you'd make running multiple shifts a *major* pain.
>
> Not really. There is no rule that says full-time industry has to use
> the same shift length as everyone else, or that each day has an
> integral number of shifts.
Industries have *tried* non-integral shifts. And dropped them when they
didn't work.
>> Where do *you* live? Here, it's not possible to afford an apartment on
>> that little work unless you get a very much above normal hourly rate.
>
> I live in Hobart, Australia. By "apartment", it sounds like you live
> in an high-density city area. Yes, rents there are typically very
> high. People who want to take it easy shouldn't live there :^)
> I made A$15/hr after tax and mandatory superannuation, with rent of
> $250/month for a 1 bedroom. In $US terms, I think that's about $8/hr
> and $130/month. I didn't have a particularly high-paying job, nor a
> low-paying one. The rent was a bit cheaper than average, but not by
> much. I know a family with two children who get by on similar job
> income (but not as comfortably).
$130/month won't get you a *studio* apartment. Hell, I'm not sure it'll
get you a <something> room (ie a private room with a bed and a place to
hang your clothes, no cooking allowed, and you share a bathroom with a
dozen other rooms)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 22:16:51 -0500
From: knightsky@juno.com
Subject: Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
> Aslo - never buy Near C Rocks from Female Aslan in Comfortable Shoes
> that
> collect penguns from ethically challenged merchants...
Now, waitasecond... I could swear that it was specifically *lesbian*
Aslan that I was warned not to discuss...
Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 22:07:52 -0500
From: knightsky@juno.com
Subject: There's a FAQ?
> However, you might want to read the FAQ for a list of "done to
> death" topics. Where's that FAQ? Beats me, but someone here can
> tell you.
To borrow a long-running gag from another mailing list:
"What's a FAQ? Boy, I wish someone would put a list of answers for
common questions such as this..." :-)
(Yeah, I read the FAQ before I got here. Unfortunately, the info on
signing up for the mailing list is out of date, which is why I didn't get
here sooner.)
Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 22:15:26 -0500
From: knightsky@juno.com
Subject: Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
> Your newbie essay assignment is to discuss the relative advantages
> and disadvantages of starship deck arrangements: perpendicular or
> parallel to the axis of thrust.
Ack! Technical questions! Strength... fading! Losing... consciousness!
(Sorry, but I fear I'll never qualify as a gearhead. I guess it's just
my GM style, but to me starships are mostly just a vehicle (so to speak)
to get the PCs to the actual adventure. I think I've run all of 2
ship-to-ship combats in the last 15+ years)
> BTW, the safety of your keyboard depends on your not eating or
> drinking while reading TML posts. You have been warned.
Thanks for the warning, but I think I'll be okay. I've got four years (a
full term?) of combat experience over at the DCH mailing list, where
biting, sarcastic humor is both a hobby *and* a lifestyle,
Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 21:39:12 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Striker problems
On 11/24/00 at 06:14 PM, Ludowick@aol.com said:
>3D Traveller (no, I don't mean starmaps):
>For to-hit rolls, multiply the roll needed to succeed by 1.5 (8+
>becomes 12+, 10+ becomes 15+, 12+ becomes 18+. All rolls are made
>on 3D instead of 2D. Leave the DMs unchanged. Now, in the first
>example, instead of 8+ after DMs are applied (42%), we need to roll
>14+ on 3D (16%). Looks a bit better (more Vargr AFVs get through).
>This technique could be used even for other aspects of Traveller
>(regular combat, skill use, etc.).
Looks like reverse GRUPS to me. <g>
For CT, I've settled on the following scale for tasks...
Automatic 2+
Easy 4+
Routine 6+
Average 7+
Difficult 8+
Formidable 10+
Staggering 12+
Hopeless 14+
Impossible 16+
...I use difficulty level modifiers and drop most, but not all,
DM's.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 21:54:35 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Hours in the Day
On 11/26/00 at 06:55 PM, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:
>>> Where do *you* live? Here, it's not possible to afford an
>>> apartment on that little work unless you get a very much above
>>> normal hourly rate.
>> I live in Hobart, Australia. By "apartment", it sounds like you
>> live in an high-density city area. Yes, rents there are
>> typically very high. People who want to take it easy shouldn't
>> live there :^)
>> I made A$15/hr after tax and mandatory superannuation, with rent
>> of $250/month for a 1 bedroom. In $US terms, I think that's
>> about $8/hr and $130/month. I didn't have a particularly
>> high-paying job, nor a low-paying one. The rent was a bit
>> cheaper than average, but not by much. I know a family with two
>> children who get by on similar job income (but not as
>> comfortably).
>$130/month won't get you a *studio* apartment. Hell, I'm not sure
>it'll get you a <something> room (ie a private room with a bed and
>a place to hang your clothes, no cooking allowed, and you share a
>bathroom with a dozen other rooms)
I live in a low-wage/low-cost area of the US, and $130 a month might
not even get you a room at the YMCA. I paid $150 a month for a
fairly nice 1 bedroom apartment in the mid-70's, same place now is
close to $500 a month.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 22:00:51 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
On 11/26/00 at 10:15 PM, knightsky@juno.com said:
>> Your newbie essay assignment is to discuss the relative advantages
>> and disadvantages of starship deck arrangements: perpendicular or
>> parallel to the axis of thrust.
>Ack! Technical questions! Strength... fading! Losing...
>consciousness! (Sorry, but I fear I'll never qualify as a gearhead.
>I guess it's just my GM style, but to me starships are mostly just
>a vehicle (so to speak) to get the PCs to the actual adventure. I
>think I've run all of 2 ship-to-ship combats in the last 15+ years)
>> BTW, the safety of your keyboard depends on your not eating or
>> drinking while reading TML posts. You have been warned.
You don't have to run ship-to-ship combats often, or at all, to have
fun with Traveller. OTOH, I very often have interesting things take
place aboard the ships that are carrying the PC's from one system to
another. Having the PC's isolated with a limited set of NPC's for a
week can be an excellent "vehicle" for adventure. <g>
>Thanks for the warning, but I think I'll be okay. I've got four
>years (a full term?) of combat experience over at the DCH mailing
>list, where biting, sarcastic humor is both a hobby *and* a
>lifestyle,
Hey! We're the epitomb of politeness here. Even when we fight, we
fight nice. <g>
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 22:04:12 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
On 11/26/00 at 10:16 PM, knightsky@juno.com said:
>> Aslo - never buy Near C Rocks from Female Aslan in Comfortable Shoes
>> that
>> collect penguns from ethically challenged merchants...
>Now, waitasecond... I could swear that it was specifically
>*lesbian* Aslan that I was warned not to discuss...
On the TML "Female Aslan in Comfortable Shoes" = "Lesbian Aslan"..it's an TML inside joke that's been floating around for several years. The rest of that sentance makes veiled reference to three other topics you might want to watch out for. <g>
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 15:28:55 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Hours in the Day
On Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 06:55:54PM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> Too late. Sol is *already* the official term for a "solar day". It's
> used for recording data from the various Mars landers for example.
OK. Learn something new every day, here :^)
> Your industry is obviously one that doesn't need to keep a fixed number
> of machines in full use.
It was a paper making factory. Both major production lines were in
continuous use, stopping only a couple of times per year.
> Industries have *tried* non-integral shifts. And dropped them when they
> didn't work.
I agree, integral shifts are easier to work with, and I can't think of
any case where they would be impossible to arrange. I just don't
think it has much relevance to the original poster's comment about
"not enough hours in the day".
> $130/month won't get you a *studio* apartment.
Want to move here, then? :^)
About 30 minutes by car from the city centre, you can buy a 2-bedroom
house for the equivalent of US$30,000. That would be about $200/month
for a typical mortgage. If you only want a self-contained 1-br unit
within walking distance of the city centre, you could probably find
one for about US$20,000.
I wonder how much housing in a large town on Feri in the Spinward
Marches would cost? Looks like a fairly nice place to live -- has
anyone made up or found any further details on that planet? It seems
to have only the most passing reference in canon.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3331
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3332
Date: | 11/27/00 7:23:12 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Monday, November 27 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3332
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Hours in the Day
Re: Striker problems
Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
Re: Hours in the Day
Re: Vargr in fiction
Re: Hours in the Day
Re: Hours in the Day
Re: Hours in the Day
Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
Re: Hours in a day
RE: Hours in the Day
Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
fifth frontier war
Accountants Everywhere (was Re: Hours in the Day)
High-tech trade goods
RE: Newbie Idiot Questions
Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
RE:Worst games ever
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 20:34:15 -0800
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: Re: Hours in the Day
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> And in any case, from the way he was talking about getting more done, I
> (and apparently many others) took it to be a reference to *production*
> jobs.
Hey, *I* was the original poster, and thus have a fair (although not
perfect) understanding of what the original poster meant.
> While a certain number of such jobs are needed, most of the jobs you
> listed have *nothing* to do with "adding value".
There is a fair (although not perfect) correlation between value added and
salary. Since engineers and others tend to make the big bucks, they probably
have a higher value added than other jobs. Ditto for laywers and others. I
would guess that the economies of the high-TL worlds are dominated by
"knowledge workers" who probably add significant value.
I actually read an article several years back which estimated the value
added by professional baseball players. The authors said that they chose
baseball since it's easier to judge how an individual player contributes to
the team's success. They actually found that the ball players were
underpaid, even though they were getting the huge salaries. Yes, they are
paid a lot, but apparently they are actually worth more.
Another interesting bit of related trivia concerns salary versus age.
Clearly the young guys are not getting paid enough. They work hard but tend
to get the lower salaries. On the other hand, the older guys are, in
general, not as productive, buy tend to get paid more. You can apply the
intermediate value theorem from calculus (exercise) to show that at some
point somewhere between being young and old you are getting paid what you
are worth. The article I read estimated that this occurs at about age 38.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 20:47:20 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Striker problems
>From: Ludowick@aol.com
>Subject: Re: Striker problems
...
>The real problem might be the effect DMs have on a 2D6 system. As soon as
>DMs start adding up, they radically alter the chance of success. So, here's
You could switch to d20 - your 20 vs 12 is 5%:2.78%, but from there on
all of your increments are smaller. If you're happy with most 2d6 hit
numbers being around 6-10 (!) then you could even halve the vehicle size
calcs and get higher granularity.
Or stick with 2d6 and make it easier for infantry to get cover mods?
>an optional Traveller heresy...
Heresy? Only if it's "Striker II" - all Classic players can be redeemed,
although some will need to be repro^h^h spend a bit of time in Purgatory*.
*reading White Wolf product, perhaps? :>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 20:47:52
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
At 10:16 PM 11/26/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>Now, waitasecond... I could swear that it was specifically *lesbian*
>Aslan that I was warned not to discuss...
"Women in comfortable shoes" is an old, old code phrase for lesbians.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:02:06 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Hours in the Day
On Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 01:50:23PM -0800, Luther Martin wrote:
> rarely see multiple shifts of accountants, laywers, engineers, etc.
> Sometimes, but not often. And these high value-added jobs are probably the
> key to the economies of the high-pop, high-tech worlds.
I'm trying to visualise a world of 10 billion lawyers adding value to
the Imperium... nope, sorry. My brain just won't handle that.
As far as I can tell, accountants and lawyers could never make up a
significant fraction of a high-pop world's economy. Rather -- if they
do, then the world's laws and financial regulations are so stuffed up
that the government of said world is heading rapidly for extinction.
Yes, you would need some. In the end, though, they are basically
specialists who mostly get paid to keep stuff safe from others --
whether that is defending from fraud, government regulations, hostile
lawsuits, or other infringements. They don't seem to help produce
much stuff themselves.
Now, the real drivers of the economy will probably be those who can
convince the entire society that they need to work ever harder, faster
and smarter to produce more stuff.
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 00:20:55 -0500
From: Thom Jones-Low <tjoneslo@together.net>
Subject: Re: Vargr in fiction
>
> Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 13:03:14 EST
> From: JDoch226@aol.com
> Subject: Vargr in fiction
>
> Can anyone recommend some sf titles with a Vargr-like culture, especially
> from a military point of view?
> Thanks,
> Jed Docherty
>
One I'd add to your list would be "Lives of the Monster Dogs" by
Kirsten Bakis. ISBN 0-374-18987-0
While not specifically about Vargr, or very Traveller like, it does
have a genius-madman (is there any other kind), and his race of
genetically bred and physically modified dogs, in a (failed) attempt to
make a super soldier.
- --
Thomas Jones-Low
tjoneslo@together.net
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 21:16:08 -0800
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: Re: Hours in the Day
Timothy Little wrote:
> I'm trying to visualise a world of 10 billion lawyers adding value to
> the Imperium... nope, sorry. My brain just won't handle that.
>
> As far as I can tell, accountants and lawyers could never make up a
> significant fraction of a high-pop world's economy. Rather -- if they
> do, then the world's laws and financial regulations are so stuffed up
> that the government of said world is heading rapidly for extinction.
You can certainly have worlds of accountants, for example, if a world does
accounting so much better than its neighbors that it makes business sense to
export the accounting technology of the accounting world. For example, in
the Spinward Marcher, we know that Ming of Mongo got his B.A. in accounting
from the University of Rhylanor. Why would Ming travel so far to study
accounting? Because Rhylanor is much better at accounting than other worlds
in the Spinward Marches. Because of this they export accountants and
accounting technology to other worlds in the Spinward Marches, who find it
cheaper and easier to outsource their accounting to one of the Big 8
accounting firms based on Rhylanor. Ditto for laywers, or any other
profession that you can think of.
In any event, a world which is extremely focused on one industry, like
accounting, probably will not have more than 10 or 20 percent of its
population working in that industry.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:32:34 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Hours in the Day
On Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 08:34:15PM -0800, Luther Martin wrote:
>I would guess that the economies of the high-TL worlds are dominated
>by "knowledge workers" who probably add significant value.
Only to the extent that their service cannot be provided by a
competitor at lower tech level. Otherwise, they'll be better off
providing services that no-one else can.
>They actually found that the ball players were underpaid, even though
>they were getting the huge salaries. Yes, they are paid a lot, but
>apparently they are actually worth more.
This is not surprising, when you take one of the most popular sports
of the biggest economic power on Earth and look at the most famous
players in it. It makes advertising easier when you can focus on only
a few players, and it's the advertising that makes them money. The
actual identity and ability of the players in question is of much less
concern, although of course advertisers like to be associated with
winners.
I remember another study across a cross-section of mining and refining
industries that showed that good production managers were grossly
underpaid -- in some cases their marginal contribution was larger than
their (fairly generous) salary by a factor of 10.
One problem with such studies, is that they usually assume a
continuous productivity model. Unfortunately this is not always true.
Worse still, discontinuities tend to be attractors so it is not
unlikely that a real-life situation contains quite a lot of them.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:47:45 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Hours in the Day
On Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 09:16:08PM -0800, Luther Martin wrote:
> Because of this they export accountants and accounting technology to
> other worlds in the Spinward Marches, who find it cheaper and easier
> to outsource their accounting to one of the Big 8 accounting firms
> based on Rhylanor. Ditto for laywers, or any other profession that
> you can think of.
For the sector as a whole, though, there is no way that the major
economic powers would consist mainly of accountants and lawyers. A
hundred million accountants and lawyers would suffice for the whole
Spinward Marches, and Rhylanor has 8000 million people.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 07:54:38 +0200 (EET)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
On Sun, 26 Nov 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> At 10:16 PM 11/26/2000 -0500, you wrote:
> >Now, waitasecond... I could swear that it was specifically *lesbian*
> >Aslan that I was warned not to discuss...
> "Women in comfortable shoes" is an old, old code phrase for lesbians.
Is this a general phrase or something that spawned off TML? (I presume
it is a general expression.)
Does anybody know the etymology of this ? All straight women wore
uncomfortable shoes? Or what?
- --
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 01:41:22 -0500 (EST)
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca>
Subject: Re: Hours in a day
> Too late. Sol is *already* the official term for a "solar day". It's
> used for recording data from the various Mars landers for example.
Ya, but it might still only refer to the planets in Sol's system. The
more general term might be something like Astron or Astrol. Another
possibility for one of the different "day" terms would be a derivation
from Helios (helion, heliocycle, etc.), although this might also refer to
Sol only. Also consider derivations from "imeda-i", ancient greek for day,
similar to the modern "meda". (I think I got those last two right, any
greek speakers/scholars wanna check this?)
Charles.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 01:58:55 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: RE: Hours in the Day
Timothy Little wrote:
Please note that some of the following information was gathered over a year
ago, when I was doing research for a role-playing game set in a city on
Mars. Some of it may be incorrect or misremembered, so I apologize in
advance if I end up misremembering things.
>There is quite a lot of science finction on the topic, and some
>serious research. We can assume that people have a reasonable range
>of adaptation, say 16-40 hours per day. Most planets will probably
>have day lengths of 16 hours or more. At the long end though, people
>will probably have to sleep during daylight hours as well as night.
We don't need to assume a range of adaptation, there has actually been
enough research done to figure it out. Assuming no genetic modification or
mutations, our bodies can learn to function with cycles between - if I
recall correctly - eighteen and twenty-eight hours. Cycles beyond that range
can be forced, but it results in decreased efficiency and the body tends to
try to revert back to a twenty-four hour cycle instead of adapting to the
new cycle.
With genetic modification or mutations, I have no idea what's possible. I
know that hamsters have been bred with a special mutation which switches a
critter's base circadian rhythm from twenty-four hours to twenty hours, but
I really don't know what's possible beyond that. I also remember reading
that a few years back scientists discovered an eye pigment that is a major
factor in setting our biological clock. It's certainly possible, given the
rate at which our understanding of the human body changes, that other
significant developments have been made since I had an interest in the
subject.
In all, it would appear that a fair amount of tinkering would be required
in order to adapt humans to anything less than an eighteen hour day or
anything more than a twenty-eight hour day (if those are indeed the correct
numbers to plug in).
>Work hours are another situation entirely. These are largely
>determined by social concerns rather than biological ones. Work
>periods of 14 hour length are possible over the long term, but leave
>little time for anything other than sleep with a 24-hour day. This is
>probably close to the upper limit for useful long-term work even on
>planets with longer day length due to fatigue problems.
Work periods are determined both by social and biological concerns.
However, the biological concerns are so deeply ingrained that we're not
really conscious of them. As an example, the majority of the population has
difficulty sleeping in the day and working at night. Even with a full night
(er... day) of sleep, most people have difficulty concentrating in the very
late night and very early morning.
Of course, for those of you who say "not me, I'm a night owl", it's
certainly true that some people are different than others and interestingly
enough, the circadian rhythms of such people are more adaptable than others
and they suffer less from things like jet lag.
Our sleep periods and patterns have an effect on our work schedules at a
base level. Mucking around with sleep patterns too much may be a very bad
thing (especially if certain theories about dreaming are correct,
specifically the "computer" theory put forth by Evans, which claims that
dreaming allows our brains to sift through and catalog what we've learned in
a day).
In addition, from what I understand, our bodies adapt to certain cycles of
work and rest periods more readily than others, and that certain cycles are
much more efficient than others. While one doesn't have to assume that
worlds in the Imperium would be concerned with efficiency above all else,
I'd bet that it's pretty likely that certain work cycles would win out over
others over the course of decades or centuries. I don't remember enough of
the stuff I sifted through on work cycles to comment beyond what I've just
said.
I want to stress that I'm not undercutting the importance of social
concerns here, I'm merely pointing out that biology does play some part in
deciding when we work and how long we work for.
<snip>
>Assuming the employees still want about 8 hours sleep (which seems
>likely), then they are probably unhappy at only having 4 hours instead
>of 8 between work and sleep to fit everything else in, including
>getting to work. This will probably be bad for morale and
>productivity. If they get paid the same amount on your competitor's
>planet, what's to stop them moving to where conditions are better?
I touched on sleep a little above, but it would appear that it may not
necessarily a matter of wanting sleep, it may be a matter of needing it.
Quite a few studies have been done on sleep patterns. Eight hours is about
the average, and most people can't stray too far from that amount of sleep,
even if they're required to. There is some variance, though. Some people
sleep more or less than other people.
As I also mentioned above, there's also the question of what our brains do
when we're sleeping. We do know that the brain goes through certain distinct
periods of activity when we're sleeping, but we don't know precisely what
the brain is doing during those periods. These periods make up a cycle which
repeats as we sleep. It's possible, if Freud was right, that we're blowing
off steam when we're sleeping, or that we're fulfilling wishes which we
can't fulfill in our waking hours. If Evans was right, our brains are
sorting through the day's activities and deciding where to "put" everything.
Whoever was right, it is known that mucking around too much with sleep
schedules tends to have detrimental effects on a number of things, such as
productivity, learning capacity and mental health.
What I'm saying, basically, is that saying it's likely that workers will
want about eight hours of sleep is something of an understatement.
Now, as far as that last bit goes, what's to stop people from moving to
where conditions are better? There are a lot of potential obstacles. I'll
list a few off of the top of my head, but there are certainly many more.
- Access to information: You have to know that conditions are better
somewhere else if you're going to go somewhere else.
- Cash: You have to be able to afford to travel, and you have to be able to
afford to take the people and things you want to take with you. You also
have to be able to afford whatever you're going to need whenever you get to
where you're going.
- Uncertainty: Pulling up your roots and leaving a place when you've
already settled down is difficult. After all, you don't know whether or not
you're going to succeed or even survive when you get to where you're going.
- Cultural Differences: Moving to another planet may require you to learn a
new language. Even if it doesn't, you will always be an outsider to the new
planet's culture. You may have concerns about raising your children on the
new world. The values espoused by the culture on the world you're moving to
might be quite different from your own. For example, if you're from a highly
individualistic world, you might be a little leery about moving to a world
in which conformity is a highly prized. Of course, it's entirely possible
that you know, or suspect, that you'll be met with prejudice for one reason
or another, whether it's the color of your skin, the shape of your eyes, or
the things that you value.
- Legal Differences: There may be a better job over on the next planet, but
you are a shooter and you know that they don't let people wield guns (or
maybe you think guns contribute to crime, and you know that they do let
people wield guns). Then again, maybe you're a woman, an alien, an ethnic
minority, a member of a specific cultural group, a homosexual, or whatever
and the laws of the next planet over will be applied to you in a different
fashion.
- Patriotism / Ideology / Religion: You may love your planet, for any
number of reasons. You may love the principles or ideals which the culture
of your planet is founded on. You may love the current government of your
planet. You may love the type of government on your planet. You may prefer
to be around people who cherish the same things which you do, or who share
your religious convictions. This overlaps a little with the previous two
concerns, but I think there are areas which they might be considerably
different.
- The Human Capacity (or Perhaps Tendency) to Put Up With a Great Deal of
Crap: This usually isn't commented on by most folks, but while it is
certainly true that people do uproot themselves and move far away when
things get bad, it's also true that many people who can don't. Basically,
different people have different "breaking points".
- Family and Friends: Depending on the importance of family and friendship
ties on the world you're coming from, it may be pretty difficult to leave
your family and friends behind.
Like I said, there are certainly many other concerns, but these are the
ones I could think of off the top of my head.
>You would probably have happier workers on a 28-hour planet with
>10-hour work days since they get 10 hours for other stuff instead of
>just 8. You are also better off because you get 25% more worker time
>per day, and the days are only 17% longer so you have a net 8%
>productivity increase over a 24-hour world.
Maybe, maybe not. Beyond the fact that happiness is pretty subjective,
there may be other issues at work. It's possible that ten hour work days are
more difficult to adjust to, or that the periods of activity and rest in a
ten hour work day do not synch with natural rhythms. If that's the case,
it's possible that people on such a world may be more irritable or
depressed. It's also possible that non-work activities may increase and fill
the additional free hours a worker may have on the twenty-eight hour world.
In such a situation, any increase "happiness" could very well be slight, or
simply non-existant.
In addition, just because someone may have more hours in a day doesn't mean
that such a person will be able to take advantage of them. After all, a guy
laying brick for ten hours is doing more work than a guy who is laying brick
for eight hours. Although the guy has ten hours to play with his kids, watch
T.V., hang out with his friends and do other things, he may be too tired to
take advantage of the extra hours.
>I suspect that at high TLs, it would take next to nothing to earn
>enough to live on. Already it is possible to work only 15 hours per
>week and still have money for savings. Not a rich lifestyle, but
>enough to survive, study at University for pleasure, read lots, be
>involved in sporting activities, and have a permanent Internet
>connection with enough left over for investments to continue the same
>standard of living after ceasing work.
It's also already possible to do absolutely no work at all and survive, if
certain conditions are met. However, that's the exception to the rule, not
the rule. Similarly, while it's possible to work only fifteen hours per week
and still have money for all of the things that you're talking about, that's
the exception to the rule and not the rule.
Someone flipping burgers fifteen hours a week won't have enough money for a
fraction of the things which you've described. In fact, someone flipping
burgers forty hours a week won't have the money for a fraction of the things
which you've described (at least here in the United States).
>At higher tech levels, increasingly efficient production of many goods
>will almost certainly mean that it will take less paid work to be
>assured of day-to-day survival for oneself and family.
Well, if things keep up the way they're going, you're probably right. It
does seem to be the case that as production becomes more efficient, things
get cheaper. In turn, less paid work may be required to be assured of
day-to-day survival for oneself and family. Indeed, it may be the case that
no paid work will be required to be assured of day-to-day survival for
oneself and family. It's really rather difficult to starve to death in
modern America, for example.
Then again, that's only one part of the picture. The question at that point
becomes levels of comfortable or acceptable living, and I'm too tired to say
anything on those issues at the moment.
<snipping the rest so that I can sleep>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 00:06:55 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
knightsky@juno.com wrote:
> 1) I tried to sign up for the Xboat list as well, but could never get
> that to work. Is Xboat still fuctioning as a mailing list?
Nope, Dead as the proverbial door nail.
> 2) If not, are CT-based questions now allowable on this list?
Yes.
> 3) What about T4 and G:T questions?
Yes and Yes.
But. you forgot to attach your entery essay on Lesibian Aslan Pirates
Weilding Near C Rocks. Don't for get the Biblography.
Cheers.
- --
Evyn...
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he today that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so lowly,
This day shall enoble his rank.
Henry V - William Shakespeare
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 01:10:48 -0800
From: "Jeffrey Yin" <jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu>
Subject: fifth frontier war
Hey guys, I just got a copy (cheers), and played my first game against a
friend of mine. It seems to me that there are a number of squadrons,
specifically the Imperial colonial junp 1 units near Rhylanor that can not
get into the game without a tanker squadron being stranded somewhere. For
that matter, if a jump 1 squadron + tanker wished to cross a 2 hex void, it
seems that the tanker has to be stranded. This is under the asumption that
unlike Traveller, FFW's rules state that a jump uses up all fuel, regardless
of distance. Is this true?
Jeffrey Yin
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 22:46:19 -0800
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: Accountants Everywhere (was Re: Hours in the Day)
Timothy Little wrote:
> For the sector as a whole, though, there is no way that the major
> economic powers would consist mainly of accountants and lawyers. A
> hundred million accountants and lawyers would suffice for the whole
> Spinward Marches, and Rhylanor has 8000 million people.
Doh! I'm going to actually get quantitative to make any sense of the
viability of worlds of accountants (or whatever - maybe there are
professions in the future which we haven't invented yet). I hate it when
that happens.
Let's ignore all worlds which are not high-population, since they don't
really have enough people to matter. If our high-pop accountant world has 10
times as many accountants that we would expect, then we need to find a use
for those other 90%. 10 times as many seems a lot. I would estimate that 3%
of my company is accountants, so that would give us 30% of our population
accountants on the accounting world. That's a lot. Maybe it's too high.
Let's make that 20%. That's still enough to strongly bias the economy and
culture. For example, I live in Silicon Valley, where we probably have that
level of tech people, and it's clearly enough to bias things.
Our accounting outsourcing business is not going to appeal to small
businesses. Let's SWAG that 20% of potential customers will use our service.
That means that we need about 9 x 5 = 45 high-population worlds to support
our model.
I don't have numbers handy to estimate how big an area of space we need to
make this model viable. Maybe it's more than a sector. Maybe it's such a big
area that the communication and transportation delay from jump travel makes
the idea infeasible.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 21:13:25 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: High-tech trade goods
Following the "Hours in a day" thread, I was wondering about what
high-tech worlds actually trade. I'll be following GURPS assumptions
here, since I don't have my older Traveller books with me to check up
on things. I'll be basically thinking out loud, I hope it isn't too
uninteresting.
First, lawyers and accountants. TL11 lawyers probably have all sorts
of high-tech information wizardry to call on, making them highly
desirable in lower-tech worlds without such. The question is whether
the low-tech world can pay for their services. Let's try some rough
numbers:
Try a TL7 world hiring a TL11 lawyer. High-tech societies will have
higher basic pay rates -- 7 times more for a 4 TL difference by the
table in GT:FT. Lawyers are already pretty highly paid, and
consulting corporate lawyers will be even more expensive. Multiply
that by 7 and add travel time at the same rate, and local expertise
would be looking pretty attractive. The same applies to accountants.
The only cases would be where an adequate service *cannot* be rendered
by local experts. This would apply far more often to doctors and
engineers than to lawyers and accountants.
It seems to make sense for high-tech worlds to sell what they are best
at producing -- high tech goods. Who do they sell them to?
What does a high-tech world want in return? My guess would be goods
that are easily produced even at low tech -- refined materials, foods,
etc. Nothing that can't be produced more cheaply at TL11, but that
would take production away from more valuable goods if produced
locally.
Suppose an average TL7 worker can produce 1 km of high-tensile space
tether, or 4 tons of food. Now a TL9 worker might be able to produce
1 TL9 jump-drive component, 4 km of tether, or 6 tons of food. Food
production would already be a mature technology by late TL7 and not so
subject to improvement in TL9 as space tethers. A TL11 worker can
produce 4 drive parts, 8 km of tether, or 8 tons of food.
TL11 wage: 100 kCr
TL9 wage: 40 kCr
TL7 wage: 15 kCr
Food is cheapest at TL7: 3.75 kCr/ton
Tethers are cheapest at TL9: 10 kCr/km
Drive parts are cheapest at TL11: 25 kCr each
This would all be affected by local resources and conditions, of
course. However, the trend of worlds producing cheap goods of lower
than their tech capability seems to hold. One thing not explained by
this model is why many worlds exist at lower tech levels -- there seem
to be very strong incentives for planetray governments to buy,
develop, reverse engineer, or steal higher technology.
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 11:24:58 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Newbie Idiot Questions
> BTW, the safety of your keyboard depends on your not eating
> or drinking
> while reading TML posts. You have been warned.
>
Just completed a move to new office...since my dept is the showcase we can't
eat or drink at our desks...I think IT were sick of the pile of dead
keyboards...
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 07:55:09 -0500
From: Eric Freitas <efreitos@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
On Sunday 26 November 2000 21:32, you wrote:
> >> A few quick questions from the peanut gallery (who just signed up for
> >> the list last night)
> >
> >However, you might want to read the FAQ for a list of "done to
> >death" topics. Where's that FAQ? Beats me, but someone here can
> >tell you.
> >
> >Eris,
> > the Heretic
>
> The FAQ can be found at:
>
> http://www.vectis.demon.co.uk/traveller/faq/tml-faq.html
Unfortunately, the FAQ is wrong about how to subscribe or unsubscribe to the
list. I sent a note to the owner, but did not get an answer. The correct
method for subscribing or unsubscribing should be:
subscribe:
send a message to: majordomo@lists.ient.com
put into the body: subscribe traveller
unsubscribe:
send a message to: majordomo@lists.ient.com
put into the body: unsubscribe traveller
- --
Eric Freitas
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 08:09:54 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
>Unfortunately, the FAQ is wrong about how to subscribe >or unsubscribe to
the list. I sent a note to the >owner, but did not get an answer. The
correct
> method for subscribing or unsubscribing should be:
>
> subscribe:
> send a message to: majordomo@lists.ient.com
> put into the body: subscribe traveller
I had the same problem when I tried to subscribe about a month ago...It took
a post to USENET to fine the right address...
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 10:23:26 -0500
From: Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>
Subject: RE:Worst games ever
I'm nothing if not slow...
"Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:
> And speaking of crossovers...
>
> GURPS Robots/Voodoo: "Come, my ancestors. Come, 6502. Come, Amiga.
> Come, P6."
GURPS Prisoner/Psionics:
"Where am I?"
"The village."
"What do you want?"
"Information."
"You won't get it!"
<pause>
"Actually, we got it five minutes ago. You can go now.
Be seeing you!"
ObTrav: GURPS Prisoner/G:T Alien Races 1...
"What do you want?"
"Woof! Arf! Yap!"
"You won't get it!"
"Grrrrrrrrr"
Ethan
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3332
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3333
Date: | 11/27/00 11:30:41 AM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Monday, November 27 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3333
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Ground Forces review
Full thrust, eh?
Re: Hours in the Day
Re: Ground Forces review
Re: Ground Forces review
Re: Accountants Everywhere (was Re: Hours in the Day)
Re: Hours in a day
Re: Ground Forces review
Re: Ground Forces review
Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
Re: Hours in the Day
Re: Trade volume heresy
Re: Hours in the Day
Re: Hours in a day
December fun shoot
Latin (was Re: Hours in a day)
RE: December fun shoot
Re: Accountants Everywhere (was Re: Hours in the Day)
Re: December fun shoot
RE: December fun shoot
Re: Ground Forces review
Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
re: fifth frontier war
Re: December fun shoot
Re: Help needed - who's who of Spinward Marches
RE: December fun shoot
word history was: Newbie Idiot Questions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:23:40 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Ground Forces review
I have now read most of Ground Forces, and I thought that I might review
it. Do we really need another review, you might ask. Well, I have no
military background whatsoever, and I am not from the US. Let's see how
well the book works with my rather different knowledge base.
The different unit types (platoons, companies, ...) are well described.
This is one of the things I feared could be troublesome, so I am
positively surprised. All in all, the description of the organization is
well done.
The character gallery at the end of the book is splendid. Wonderful both
for flavor and for inspiration... and direct use.
I am happy to see a system to calculate the size of the forces available
on a world, but very surprised that it didn't include some kind of
simple mass combat system. I kind of expected such a system...
New character templates are always a plus. I don't use GURPS, but I plan
to slowly make a T4 career out of every character template in GT. When I
get time... *sigh*
The technology descriptions are nice. I have no comments on game balance
and such, since I use another rules set.
Lots of nice flavor fiction in the sidebars.
All in all a very nice book, even for a person without any significant
background knowledge on these kinds of topics. If you want the military
to play a significant part in your games, this one is for you.
And Doug... why did I get to be the biggest bastard of them all? ;-)
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 15:45:08 +0000
From: Brian Caball <boc@raidtec.ie>
Subject: Full thrust, eh?
Does anyone know a URL for ground zero games?
- -Brian
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 10:49:16 -0500
From: Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>
Subject: Re: Hours in the Day
First, let me agree that there are insufficient hours in a day,
not to mention in the night... especially when you 3-month-old is
throwing up in your bed at 4 AM. Ugh.
Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com> wrote:
> Because of this they export accountants and
> accounting technology to other worlds in the Spinward Marches, who find it
> cheaper and easier to outsource their accounting to one of the Big 8
> accounting firms based on Rhylanor. Ditto for laywers, or any other
> profession that you can think of.
>
> In any event, a world which is extremely focused on one industry, like
> accounting, probably will not have more than 10 or 20 percent of its
> population working in that industry.
I recently read 'A Million Open Doors', a decent novel, which postulated
a similar idea... planets tend to develop specific cultures which value
things differently. One planet might have a lot of literature "majors"
(what's the word for a professional studier of literature?), another
might product accountants, project managers, soldiers, etc, etc.
The export and import of off-planet experts was a major form of
interstellar commerce in the book, as sub-c space travel was too
slow for the exchange of many goods, but people who wanted a "change
of scenery" were frequent enough to create a from of knowledge
worker commerce.
In the real world, take the example of engineers from India or China -
(or a lot of places really) it's not like India or China are stuffed
to the brim with engineers, but if you took a sampling of recent Chinese
or Indian immigrants (in Canada at least) you might conclude that.
Someone who had never been to Rhylanor might well conclude it is indeed
a planet of accountants, as everyone they've ever met from Rhylanor is
an accountant.
Ethan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 10:44:16 -0500
From: knightsky@juno.com
Subject: Re: Ground Forces review
> I am happy to see a system to calculate the size of the forces
> available
> on a world, but very surprised that it didn't include some kind of
> simple mass combat system. I kind of expected such a system...
There's already a Mass Combat System in one of the GURPS Compendiums (the
2nd one, I think).
Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 11:57:16 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: Re: Ground Forces review
The mass combat system is also available in an old Pyramid
article...available for download on www.sjgames.com IIRC...
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 08:56:23 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Accountants Everywhere (was Re: Hours in the Day)
In mail you write:
> Timothy Little wrote:
>
>> For the sector as a whole, though, there is no way that the major
>> economic powers would consist mainly of accountants and lawyers. A
>> hundred million accountants and lawyers would suffice for the whole
>> Spinward Marches, and Rhylanor has 8000 million people.
>
> Doh! I'm going to actually get quantitative to make any sense of the
> viability of worlds of accountants (or whatever - maybe there are
> professions in the future which we haven't invented yet). I hate it when
> that happens.
>
> Let's ignore all worlds which are not high-population, since they don't
> really have enough people to matter. If our high-pop accountant world has 10
> times as many accountants that we would expect, then we need to find a use
> for those other 90%. 10 times as many seems a lot. I would estimate that 3%
> of my company is accountants, so that would give us 30% of our population
> accountants on the accounting world. That's a lot. Maybe it's too high.
> Let's make that 20%. That's still enough to strongly bias the economy and
> culture. For example, I live in Silicon Valley, where we probably have that
> level of tech people, and it's clearly enough to bias things.
>
> Our accounting outsourcing business is not going to appeal to small
> businesses. Let's SWAG that 20% of potential customers will use our service.
> That means that we need about 9 x 5 = 45 high-population worlds to support
> our model.
>
> I don't have numbers handy to estimate how big an area of space we need to
> make this model viable. Maybe it's more than a sector. Maybe it's such a big
> area that the communication and transportation delay from jump travel makes
> the idea infeasible.
The two week lag between them and a world in the next hex makes it
infeasible, except for "forensic" accounting and the like.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 08:58:24 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Hours in a day
In mail you write:
>> Too late. Sol is *already* the official term for a "solar day". It's
>> used for recording data from the various Mars landers for example.
>
> Ya, but it might still only refer to the planets in Sol's system.
Odds are that if it enters anything approaching "general usage", it
won't get changed once we leave the solar system. Heck "solar system"
is now a "generic" term, not one that applies solely to the system of
Sol.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 09:02:07
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces review
At 04:23 PM 11/27/2000 +0100, you wrote:
>I have now read most of Ground Forces, and I thought that I might review
>it. Do we really need another review, you might ask. Well, I have no
>military background whatsoever, and I am not from the US. Let's see how
>well the book works with my rather different knowledge base.
<snip very nice review>
Glad that I reached someone who is not a military veteran or fan. That was
a goal of mine during the entire writing process.
>And Doug... why did I get to be the biggest bastard of them all? ;-)
Your *name*, Jens.. I couldn't resist the image of these poor recruits
wilting as this terrifying person thunders "I am Sergeant-Instructor Jens
Harald Rydholm.."
Besides, you didn't even get the worst of it. I turned Kurt into a
mind-controled timebomb, killed John Groth, and my friend Greg Aldridge
nearly choked when he read his write up. (The real Greg has never, to
anyone's knowledge, shut up. Ever.)
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 09:03:23
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces review
At 10:44 AM 11/27/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>> I am happy to see a system to calculate the size of the forces
>> available on a world, but very surprised that it didn't include some kind
>> of simple mass combat system. I kind of expected such a system...
>
>There's already a Mass Combat System in one of the GURPS Compendiums (the
>2nd one, I think).
There is also a simple system in Star Mercs. The decision was made early
on that GURPS didn't need a third mass combat system.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 09:07:58
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
At 07:54 AM 11/27/2000 +0200, you wrote:
>On Sun, 26 Nov 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>> "Women in comfortable shoes" is an old, old code phrase for lesbians.
>
>Is this a general phrase or something that spawned off TML? (I presume
>it is a general expression.)
>
>Does anybody know the etymology of this ? All straight women wore
>uncomfortable shoes? Or what?
It comes from the sterotype of lesbians as "mannish." It mostly comes from
the late 40s and 50s, when women in almost every circumstance were expected
to wear shoes more dedicated to fashion than comfort. A woman who rejected
this convention and wore shoes where form followed function was suspect.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 12:17:38 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Hours in the Day
>(what's the word for a professional studier of literature?)
"Unemployed".
(Badump-bump)
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 09:21:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Trade volume heresy
Christopher Thrash writes:
> <shrug> The so-called Gravity Model (upon which the distance modifier is
> based) is an empirical observation: trade (and communications, and travel,
> and a bunch of other relationships) in the real world drops off about as
> the square of the distance. The actual observed exponent is 1.9, if that
> helps.
I suspect that due to the weird distributions of population and wealth in the
Imperium the gravity trade model needs some additional fudge factors -- in
particular, the economic system in Far Trader assumes that the trade between
two worlds is dependent on nothing but those two worlds. In practice I suspect
this would not be true -- two large worlds one parsec apart and two large
worlds three parsecs apart may well have almost identical levels of trade,
unless there are other closer worlds for them to engage in major trade with.
This is an effect which would tend to be hidden in the real world -- wealthy
states tend to appear in clusters (partly because the gravity trade model tends
to produce such clusters).
The easiest resolution for that is probably to just drop the one parsec case
(resulting in constant trade from 1-3 parsecs) and either leave long distance
trade the same or upgrade everything by 0.5. Another option is to change the
'1 parsec' result to extend to the nearest star of equal or greater WTN. Not
sure if either of these really produces sane results.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 09:36:21 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Hours in the Day
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>BTW, anybody know what the Latin is for "day" (as in 24 hour period,
>not the opposite of night). I can see that we need *three* words:
"dies" is the Latin word for day (in the nominative case), but why use a
long-dead language -- why not use the Vilani word?
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 09:56:28 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Hours in a day
>From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca>
>My god, a peice of useless trivia Leonard actually doesn't know? I'm
>shocked! :-) I believe it's "diem" as in "carpe diem", but there's going
>to be several versions of it. I suspect "diem" is a good one, since it
>presumably comes out as "the day that the actor acts upon".
"diem" is simply singular accusative case, that is, the direct object of the
verb. ("carpe" means "seize" or "take", and is in the imperative mood,
meaning that it is a command to the listener.) The nominative singular case
(subject of a sentence) is "dies"; genetive singular case (possessive, shown
in English by "apostrophe s" ("day's" or "of the day")) is "diei". I leave
the dative (indirect object) and ablative (instrumental; usually "with a
day" or "by a day"), as well as the plural forms, as an exercise for the
reader.
- --Glenn (no, they didn't call me "Convallus" nor "Glennius" in Latin class)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 10:19:33 -0800
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: December fun shoot
I've heard from Glenn G and Doug B, who won't be up for the Albany fun
shoot. :(
Just curious who all from the list is planning on attending (besides Mark
C., of course).
Tod
- ----
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
- ----
Tod Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.travellerguns.com
http://www.solsec.org
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 10:21:41 -0800
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: Latin (was Re: Hours in a day)
Glenn Goffin wrote:
> "diem" is simply singular accusative case, that is, the direct object of
the
> verb. ("carpe" means "seize" or "take", and is in the imperative mood,
> meaning that it is a command to the listener.) The nominative singular
case
> (subject of a sentence) is "dies"; genetive singular case (possessive,
shown
> in English by "apostrophe s" ("day's" or "of the day")) is "diei". I
leave
> the dative (indirect object) and ablative (instrumental; usually "with a
> day" or "by a day"), as well as the plural forms, as an exercise for the
> reader.
To show that I actually learned something from six years of Latin:
dies, diem, diei, diei, die; dies, dies, dierum, diebus, diebus
I was the next-to-worst Latin student in school; the only guy who was worse
got a Latin scholarship to college by virtue of his father's political
connections. But *I* didn't have to take any more Latin.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 10:24:52 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: December fun shoot
I'll be going. I'd heard Doug couldn't go, but are you saying Glenn
couldn't either?
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Tod Glenn
> Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 10:20 AM
> To: TML
> Subject: December fun shoot
>
>
> I've heard from Glenn G and Doug B, who won't be up for the Albany fun
> shoot. :(
>
> Just curious who all from the list is planning on attending (besides Mark
> C., of course).
>
> Tod
> ----
> When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
> ----
> Tod Glenn
> webmaster@travellercentral.com
> http://www.travellercentral.com
> http://www.travellerguns.com
> http://www.solsec.org
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 10:40:45 -0800
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: Re: Accountants Everywhere (was Re: Hours in the Day)
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> > I don't have numbers handy to estimate how big an area of space we need
to
> > make this model viable. Maybe it's more than a sector. Maybe it's such a
big
> > area that the communication and transportation delay from jump travel
makes
> > the idea infeasible.
>
> The two week lag between them and a world in the next hex makes it
> infeasible, except for "forensic" accounting and the like.
What I was envisioning is sort of like American expatriates in Singapore,
for example, with the accountants from Rhylanor being in demand on other
planets, since, as Leonard points out, you probably can't get your
accounting data to Rhylanor, have it massaged, and get a report back in a
short time with jump delays.
Having distant offices probably will require strange accounting. Today, we
have to file our quarterly reports with the SEC within a certain time of the
quarter ending. If you have offices where you can't even get the data for a
few months, you can't really publish accurate reports right away. Maybe you
will see a series of updated reports issued every quarter which update all
of the quarterly reports within the last year.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 10:42:39 -0800
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: December fun shoot
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 10:24 AM
Subject: RE: December fun shoot
> I'll be going. I'd heard Doug couldn't go, but are you saying Glenn
> couldn't either?
> Jesse
>
Glenn has a martial arts test on the 12th, and won't be available.
Tod
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 10:49:39 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: December fun shoot
Bummer. You going?
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Tod Glenn
> Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 10:43 AM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: December fun shoot
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
> To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 10:24 AM
> Subject: RE: December fun shoot
>
>
> > I'll be going. I'd heard Doug couldn't go, but are you saying Glenn
> > couldn't either?
> > Jesse
> >
>
> Glenn has a martial arts test on the 12th, and won't be available.
>
> Tod
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 10:52:06 -0800
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces review
> Glad that I reached someone who is not a military veteran or fan. That
was
> a goal of mine during the entire writing process.
>
Doug, you forgot one of my favorite acronyms: REMF
Then again, I can't think of a sanitized version. On the whole, I thought
GF was great. Now I just need to figure out this GURPS stuff. By the way,
what is the MOS for floor buffer specialist ?
Tod
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 18:55:33 +0000
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>But. you forgot to attach your entery essay on Lesibian Aslan Pirates
>Weilding Near C Rocks. Don't for get the Biblography.
Nope, don't forget the bibliography. That's _The Traveller Bibliography_
and _The Traveller Periodical Bibliography_. :-)
For those who have just joined TML, they're both BITS books available from
Warehouse 23 and other places. The first is 60 odd pages and covers
everything Traveller ever published. The second (about the same size)
covers all the periodical articles from JTAS, MT Journal, Challenge, Trav
Digest and Trav Chronicle.
Definitely a must have for serious Traveller fans. Though I may be a
little biased having written the things.
</end advert mode>
Hope this helps and welcome to the list.
tc
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 11:05:08 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: re: fifth frontier war
>From: "Jeffrey Yin" <jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu>
>Hey guys, I just got a copy (cheers), and played my first game against a
>friend of mine. It seems to me that there are a number of squadrons,
>specifically the Imperial colonial junp 1 units near Rhylanor that can not
>get into the game without a tanker squadron being stranded somewhere. For
>that matter, if a jump 1 squadron + tanker wished to cross a 2 hex void, it
>seems that the tanker has to be stranded. This is under the asumption that
>unlike Traveller, FFW's rules state that a jump uses up all fuel,
regardless
>of distance. Is this true?
Your analysis comports with my understanding. This suggests that those
colonial jump-1 ships that are two hexes away from the next star system are
their for defense or just for campaign color. N.B. that none of the
colonial reinforcements squadrons (numbered units) are jump-1. They can all
get onto the map and into the action.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 11:09:35 -0800
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: December fun shoot
> Bummer. You going?
> Jesse
I have the advantage of living near Portland, so I will be there. It looks
like I won't have my subgun paperwork for the shoot, so I'm tagging along
with a friend to help him get his guns dirty. We should get together with
Mark for a post shoot beer or something.
Tod
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 11:22:20 -0800
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: Help needed - who's who of Spinward Marches
> Greetings lads,
>
> I'm running a SpinMarch based campaign at the moment (10 sessions notched
so
> far - a new record for me!) and was thinking of compiling a 'who's who' of
> the spinward marches - famous types bios for the ship's library and that
> they could subsequently run into - like merc company leaders, hi ranking
> nobles, fleet admirals and the like. Mainly so I could insert my plot
people
> in but also for ideas. The year is 1116 (and yes it's MT but the Rebellion
> is yet to hit).
I've got a few non-canonical NPCs for the marches, but most will fit into a
proper campaign. What format are you looking for? Most of the one's I have
are brief bios, many with photos or drawings. Some are 'deceased' IMTU, but
definitely revivable. Aside from the bios, there's 2 years of game notes
with info on the characters that I can dig out for you. See
http://www.travellercentral.com/regina/regina.html.
Note. I just grabbed the domain spinwardmarches.com. Any thoughts?
Tod
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 11:23:26 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: December fun shoot
Not to mention getting together DURING the shoot to shoot each other's
(friend's) toys :D Since I live in the PRK (People's Republic of
Kalifornia) I don't own any NFA toys myself, only semi's :(
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Tod Glenn
> Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 11:10 AM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: December fun shoot
>
>
> > Bummer. You going?
> > Jesse
>
> I have the advantage of living near Portland, so I will be there.
> It looks
> like I won't have my subgun paperwork for the shoot, so I'm tagging along
> with a friend to help him get his guns dirty. We should get together with
> Mark for a post shoot beer or something.
>
> Tod
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 14:26:36 -0500
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>
Subject: word history was: Newbie Idiot Questions
"Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi> puts in the ether:
>On Sun, 26 Nov 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> > At 10:16 PM 11/26/2000 -0500, you wrote:
> > >Now, waitasecond... I could swear that it was specifically *lesbian*
> > >Aslan that I was warned not to discuss...
> > "Women in comfortable shoes" is an old, old code phrase for lesbians.
>Is this a general phrase or something that spawned off TML? (I presume
>it is a general expression.)
>Does anybody know the etymology of this ? All straight women wore
>uncomfortable shoes? Or what?
Robin Williams was using the phrase in his act back in the late 70's/early
80's.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ - Opinions should be yours too!
http://www.planetproject.com/ Poll the Planet!
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3333
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3334
Date: | 11/27/00 3:48:55 PM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Monday, November 27 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3334
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Ground Forces review
Re: Ground Forces review
Re: December fun shoot
Re: Accountants Everywhere (was Re: Hours in the Day)
re: Latin (was Re: Hours in a day)
Re: Accountants Everywhere (was Re: Hours in the Day)
Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
Re: fifth frontier war
Re: fifth frontier war
Sleep, Children, etc (was Re: Hours in the Day)
Re: Hours in the Day
RE: December fun shoot
Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
Sanity check
Re: December fun shoot
Re: Ground Forces review
RE: December fun shoot
Re: Trade volume heresy
Re: Sanity check
Re: Help needed - who's who of Spinward Marches
20 year-old cars was re: Hours is the Day
Re: Ground Forces review
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 14:38:44 -0500
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces review
"Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com> puts out on the Ether:
> > Glad that I reached someone who is not a military veteran or fan. That
>was
> > a goal of mine during the entire writing process.
>Doug, you forgot one of my favorite acronyms: REMF
>Then again, I can't think of a sanitized version.
I like the way he handled IHTFP.
IHTFP is also a popular phrase at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
It's even part of the Class of 2001 ring design.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!
Did you read what I read? Write it right here in red.
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 13:43:51 -0600
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <dasmart@avaya.com>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces review
Tod Glenn posted:
>
> > Glad that I reached someone who is not a military veteran
> or fan. That
> was
> > a goal of mine during the entire writing process.
> >
>
> Doug, you forgot one of my favorite acronyms: REMF
>
> Then again, I can't think of a sanitized version. On the
> whole, I thought
> GF was great. Now I just need to figure out this GURPS stuff.
> By the way,
> what is the MOS for floor buffer specialist ?
With or without a toothbrush?
Never mind. Judging by the bootcamp stories from friends,
it's gotta be the infantry.
David
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 14:46:14 -0500
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: December fun shoot
Of course in a real People's Republic you would already be on your way to a
reeducation camp and wouldn't be able to read this.
It's easy to mock laws by confusing them with oppression, but only when you
aren't oppressed.
Sam
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 12:17:06 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Accountants Everywhere (was Re: Hours in the Day)
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>The two week lag between them and a world in the next hex makes it
infeasible, except for >"forensic" accounting and the like.
Actually, a lot of accounting work takes place over long time periods. An
annual audit may take a few months. Due diligence prior to a securities
offering or merger may take even longer.
Someone was talking about lawyers as an exportable resource. That won't
work as well as accountants, because each member state has its own legal
system. Accounting systems will be fairly standardized in order for
interstellar commerce to work -- and, in any event, accounting concepts are
fairly narrow and fairly mandatory for the bulk of business accounting work.
Legal systems will not have the near-uniformity necessary to allow lawyers
to move freely from one member state to another.
Even within the United States, there are significant barriers to moving from
one state to another as a lawyer. Within the world, the barriers to
mobility are much higher -- even though the legal systems of any two
countries are probably more similar to one another than the legal systems of
any two members of the Imperium.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 12:17:08 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: re: Latin (was Re: Hours in a day)
>From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
>I was the next-to-worst Latin student in school; the only guy who was worse
got a Latin
>scholarship to college by virtue of his father's political connections. But
*I* didn't have to
>take any more Latin.
It's nice to know that the Latin jokes and names in the RSSP campaign (set
on Regina ("queen"), where the New Catholic Church ("frater magnus te
spectat" -- oops, wrong game) is a major player) might be appreciated by at
least one of the players (if not his character).
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 15:28:48 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Accountants Everywhere (was Re: Hours in the Day)
>Someone was talking about lawyers as an exportable resource. That won't
>work as well as accountants, because each member state has its own legal
>system.
On the other hand, understanding two world's systems -- for the specific
purpose of being able to facilitate trading either way "across the border"
- -- would be a recognizable occupation.
I have a accountant friend, Canadian but now living in the United States,
whose job is to navigate the two sets of law ("free trade", ha!) so that her
American employer can trade in Canada. It's apparently a skill quite in
demand down there.
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 15:36:12 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
>For those who have just joined TML, they're both BITS >books available from
Warehouse 23 and other places. >The first is 60 odd pages and covers
everything >Travel
>covers all the periodical articles from JTAS, MT >Journal, Challenge, Trav
Digest and Trav Chronicle.
I know there were a few articles in Dragon as well...before they only allowed
WOTC game related articles...One was by Mark Miller on Luna...Another one has
more adventure ideas for the Tarsus module...
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 15:36:25 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
>For those who have just joined TML, they're both BITS >books available from
Warehouse 23 and other places. >The first is 60 odd pages and covers
everything >Travel
>covers all the periodical articles from JTAS, MT >Journal, Challenge, Trav
Digest and Trav Chronicle.
I know there were a few articles in Dragon as well...before they only allowed
WOTC game related articles...One was by Mark Miller on Luna...Another one has
more adventure ideas for the Tarsus module...
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 07:51:37 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: fifth frontier war
On Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 01:10:48AM -0800, Jeffrey Yin wrote:
> This is under the asumption that unlike Traveller, FFW's rules state
> that a jump uses up all fuel, regardless of distance.
How does this work? What if you have fuel in a cargo hold? Sorry if
these are irritating questions :^)
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 12:58:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: fifth frontier war
Timothy Little writes:
> On Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 01:10:48AM -0800, Jeffrey Yin wrote:
> > This is under the asumption that unlike Traveller, FFW's rules state
> > that a jump uses up all fuel, regardless of distance.
>
> How does this work? What if you have fuel in a cargo hold? Sorry if
> these are irritating questions :^)
I think it uses the old rules, in which a J-3 drive _always_ uses 30% fuel,
even if you only go 1 parsec.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 13:06:05 -0800
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: Sleep, Children, etc (was Re: Hours in the Day)
Ethan Henry wrote:
> First, let me agree that there are insufficient hours in a day,
> not to mention in the night... especially when you 3-month-old is
> throwing up in your bed at 4 AM. Ugh.
Yep, my first didn't sleep through the night regularly until he was 14
months old. On the other hand, my second was regularly sleeping for 10 hours
at a time at about two weeks.
But wait, there *is* a connection to Traveller. Today, when cats and dogs
are born, they are able to run around and do their cat and dog things
shortly after birth. Humans, on the other hand, are basically helpless for
the first year or so of their life. If Vargr and Aslan are like their small
furry relatives in this respect, they may have their kids up and running
around fairly quickly. This will probably have a significant impact on the
way in which Vargr and Aslan societies are organized.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 08:50:26 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Hours in the Day
On Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 01:58:55AM -0500, Chris Seamans wrote:
> We don't need to assume a range of adaptation, there has
> actually been enough research done to figure it out. Assuming no
> genetic modification or mutations, our bodies can learn to function
> with cycles between - if I recall correctly - eighteen and
> twenty-eight hours.
Yes, that's what I read too. The only problem is that no really
long-term studies have been done (to my knowledge), so t is difficult
to extrapolate to people born and living their whole lives on a planet
with different day length.
> As an example, the majority of the population has difficulty
> sleeping in the day and working at night.
I wasn't proposing that, it was the length rather than the timing that
I was commenting on.
> Whoever was right, it is known that mucking around too much with
> sleep schedules tends to have detrimental effects on a number of
> things, such as productivity, learning capacity and mental health.
At our tech level, yes :^)
> Now, as far as that last bit goes, what's to stop people from
> moving to where conditions are better? There are a lot of potential
> obstacles.
I was aware of that, but most of these hold just as true for employers
as for employees. The original poster posited free choice of
location, so I was just enjoying the same privilege in my reply.
> Maybe, maybe not. Beyond the fact that happiness is pretty subjective,
> there may be other issues at work. It's possible that ten hour work days are
> more difficult to adjust to, or that the periods of activity and rest in a
> ten hour work day do not synch with natural rhythms.
Many people work 10 hour days now without noticeably more problems
than for 8 hours.
> In addition, just because someone may have more hours in a day doesn't mean
> that such a person will be able to take advantage of them.
I agree. They'll still likely be much better off than someone with
only 4 hours in which to pack everything they need or want to do.
> Well, if things keep up the way they're going, you're probably right. It
> does seem to be the case that as production becomes more efficient, things
> get cheaper. In turn, less paid work may be required to be assured of
> day-to-day survival for oneself and family. Indeed, it may be the case that
> no paid work will be required to be assured of day-to-day survival for
> oneself and family.
That seems to be true in Australia at the moment, although with very
little safety margin in case things change. Even though I can get
enough to live on from the government (probably indefinitely), I'd
rather work at least part time. Partly to get a higher standard of
living, but mostly to invest enough to live on in the future.
> It's really rather difficult to starve to death in modern America,
> for example.
It's next to impossible in Australia, unless you have significantly
greater expenses than most people. Indefinite unemployment benefits,
rent assistance, family care payments, public health system, tax
exemptions on basic foods, and zero income tax on low incomes.
> Then again, that's only one part of the picture. The question at
> that point becomes levels of comfortable or acceptable living, and
> I'm too tired to say anything on those issues at the moment.
Yes, and that is really an individual issue. My wife and I like our
20+ year old cars. Restaurants are mostly foreign and somewhat
undesirable locations to us. We own our home. We make our own
entertainment, there's a good public library system, and we've got
cheap internet access, videos and TV for most of the rest. Local
travel and visiting friends is easy, and we've got family nearby.
There's not much more that we want to spend money on, so not much
incentive to go out and work hard to get it.
Other people see things differently :^)
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 14:16:17 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: December fun shoot
> Of course in a real People's Republic you would already be on
> your way to a
> reeducation camp and wouldn't be able to read this.
Too true...
> It's easy to mock laws by confusing them with oppression, but
> only when you
> aren't oppressed.
>
> Sam
It's true California is hardly oppressive compared to third world countries,
but it's definately not a gun-friendly state REGARDLESS of gun type. As an
example our recent feel-good "assault weapon" ban was so poorly written that
it originally outlawed even Olympic style .22 caliber pistols.
No more 2nd Ammendment chatter from me today. Don't want to start another
Flame War of the Apocolypse (tm) :)
Best,
Jesse
"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 11:23:00 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
On 27 Nov 2000, at 9:07, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> At 07:54 AM 11/27/2000 +0200, you wrote:
> >On Sun, 26 Nov 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>
> >> "Women in comfortable shoes" is an old, old code phrase for lesbians.
> >
> >Is this a general phrase or something that spawned off TML? (I presume
> >it is a general expression.)
> >
> >Does anybody know the etymology of this ? All straight women wore
> >uncomfortable shoes? Or what?
>
> It comes from the sterotype of lesbians as "mannish." It mostly comes from the
> late 40s and 50s, when women in almost every circumstance were expected to wear
> shoes more dedicated to fashion than comfort. A woman who rejected this
> convention and wore shoes where form followed function was suspect.
Not that mens' shoes of the period were exactly designed for comfort, either.
Some of the shoes in the back of father's wardrobe loot more like torture
devices than footwear.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 17:24:07 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
Subject: Sanity check
Given a couple of recent threads, I started thinking about some
possibilities; I need to know whether a couple of ideas in connection with
those possibilities are reasonable, plausible, etc.
For all questions below, assume a Traveller Tech Level B minimum; if the
answer changes with rising tech level, please indicate how it changes and
at what tech levels.
First: It's pretty clear that nerves and muscles can be stimulated from
external sources, and that such stimulation can be controlled in fairly
good detail. Is _suppression_ possible? Context: I am envisioning a
'combat simulator' where the user is wearing a full-coverage suit that is
in communication with the combat simulator's computer. If, for example,
the user gets 'hit' in an appropriate location, an arm might become
useless. The suit would have to suppress any nerve impulses that the
user's brain might send to that arm, to prevent the arm from being used.
Note that 'locking' the limb of the suit is unsatisfactory for such
prevention, as a limb that actively resists movement has completely
different effects on motion and balance from one that's just flopping
uselessly.
Second: Is it reasonable to assume that such detailed interaction with the
human nervous system can be done 'dry', i.e., the equivalent of
electrode-to-skin contact, or possibly non-contact induction, with no
'prep' substances to increase sensitivity or conductivity? Or, would some
sort of 'prep' substance be necessary - and if so, what would this
substance be (e.g., immersion in a liquid, a jelly, a powder, something
in-between)?
Third: Assume suppression is possible. How fine is it plausible to assume
that such suppression can be controlled? Could it reasonably be assumed
that in the event of simulated shrapnel going into one eye, that just that
eye could be 'suppressed' for the simulation, without interfering with
other brain function or risking actual damage? Could autonomic functions
necessary for the body to maintain itself be maintained, with only
voluntary functions being suppressed? (Obviously, if suppression is _not_
reasonably possible/plausible, this question can be ignored entirely.)
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
(Ask me via email about the ILink message network!)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 17:30:01 -0500
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: December fun shoot
>It's true California is hardly oppressive compared to third world
countries,
but it's definately not a gun-friendly state REGARDLESS of gun type. As an
example our recent feel-good "assault weapon" ban was so poorly written that
it originally outlawed even Olympic style .22 caliber pistols.<
That is more relevant to incompetence among legislators than a civil rights
issue.
Now despite popular image, New York is a fun place. According to our
anti-militia laws, drilling is only prohibited for people employing guns,
rather specifically defined as our current projectile type weapons. Any
Travellers wandering through and wanting to get in some laser rifle practice
are perfectly safe until the laws are revised.
:-0
Don't ask about New Hampshire though.
Sam
"Sig file quote wars can be messier than flame wars."
- -Me, TML, 2000
:)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 23:49:48 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces review
Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> There is also a simple system in Star Mercs. The decision was made early
> on that GURPS didn't need a third mass combat system.
Off course. It's got to be in the only GT supplement I don't have...
Ah well... one more book won't hurt :-)
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 14:56:54 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: December fun shoot
ROFL!!!!
Jesse
p.s. I was born in upstate NY, Ithaca to be precise :)
"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
> Sam
> "Sig file quote wars can be messier than flame wars."
> -Me, TML, 2000
> :)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 10:04:50 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Trade volume heresy
On Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 09:21:49AM -0800, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> I suspect that due to the weird distributions of population and wealth in the
> Imperium the gravity trade model needs some additional fudge factors
Probably not if it was compared to the eal graivty trade model, but it
probably does if compared to the drastically simplified game-system
one.
> In practice I suspect this would not be true -- two large worlds one
> parsec apart and two large worlds three parsecs apart may well have
> almost identical levels of trade, unless there are other closer
> worlds for them to engage in major trade with.
I agree. I'm working on this now. With the huge disparities in the
economic output of systems in Traveller, many high-pop systems will be
surrounded by nothing but worlds 1000th their size. The nearest 10
worlds aren't going to satisfy trade needs. They will trade across a
whole subsector at least.
Also, trade routes and overall data are *really annoying* to generate
with only pairwise comparisons -- even for a single sector it takes
90,000 pairwise calculations to generate trade data.
I'm shifting to an easier and better model.
> The easiest resolution for that is probably to just drop the one parsec case
> (resulting in constant trade from 1-3 parsecs) and either leave long distance
> trade the same or upgrade everything by 0.5. Another option is to change the
> '1 parsec' result to extend to the nearest star of equal or greater WTN. Not
> sure if either of these really produces sane results.
My current distance formula is based on log((d/3)^2+1), so that
distance matters little at 3 parsecs or less (1 jump), but increases
to inverse-square at longer distances. This gives excellent results
for most worlds, but still lacks something for the high-pop worlds.
I'm currently making drastic modifications to eliminate global
pairwise comparison tests in favour of a "nearest trade partners"
model. As far as I can see, there are two main distance effects --
cost (in Cr and time) and the probability of having a closer trade
partner. The second can be modelled separately, and I think it should
be in a universe with the diversity of Traveller worlds.
I will then be able to inspect my results. I expect them to fit fairly
well with the gravity model, but with much less work and better
results for extreme cases.
I don't think I'll post them to this list (did I hear "Thank God, I've
had enough economics talk"?), but put them up on a web page.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 10:22:31 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Sanity check
On Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 05:24:07PM -0500, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
> First: It's pretty clear that nerves and muscles can be stimulated from
> external sources, and that such stimulation can be controlled in fairly
> good detail. Is _suppression_ possible?
Yes, even today is it possible to suppress nerve signals in a tiny
area. I'm not sure whether it extends to individual nerves yet, but
certainly should do within 5 years, let alone by TravTL B.
> Second: Is it reasonable to assume that such detailed interaction with the
> human nervous system can be done 'dry',
Not today, as far as I know. At higher tech, I see no fundamental
reason why not. However, the medical and engineering difficulties
might prove more troublesome than expected. I don't know what sort of
things are specifically present in TravTL B, but self-positioning
microbotics that locate specific nerves and communicate with an
external system should be possible. You shouldn't need nanotechnology
or anything really fancy.
> Could it reasonably be assumed that in the event of simulated
> shrapnel going into one eye, that just that eye could be
> 'suppressed' for the simulation, without interfering with other
> brain function or risking actual damage?
Local anaesthetics already have something close to this ability, let
alone ultra-tech stuff like individual nerve signal suppression.
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 17:34:48 -0600
From: tim@premier.net
Subject: Re: Help needed - who's who of Spinward Marches
Tod
> http://www.travellercentral.com/regina/regina.html.
>
> Note. I just grabbed the domain spinwardmarches.com. Any thoughts?
> .
Well lets see.
All those handy trade maps in one place would be cool.
putting a navigatable map of the marches with all the landgrap sites
The NPCs
Ships of the Marches
A Marches timeline
A list of military units and known battles
Somewhere someone was working on a list of nobles
Thats all I can think of for now.
Tim Reynolds
tim@premier.net
225-334-5063
www.premier.net/~tim
- ------------------------------------------------------------
Knowledge, information, power, words...Flying through
the air, invisible
And suddenly the world was tap dancing on quicksand.
In that case, the prize went to the best dancer
Terry Pratchett: The Fifth Elephant
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:33:37 -0700
From: bruce johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: 20 year-old cars was re: Hours is the Day
Timothy Little wrote:
> Yes, and that is really an individual issue. My wife and I like our
> 20+ year old cars.
Me too, most of the time...though after this weekend, I'd like to
strangle the engineer who decided that one of the two bolts holding the
starter on in a 81' Honda Civic only be reachable from the OTHER side
of the %#$@#!$@ engine. You can only get to it by threading 16" worth
of socket extension with a universal joint on it between the intake and
exhaust manifolds. To get to that point you must reach down between the
carburetor platform and the brake master cylinder. My arm only barely
fit, and is still bruised and sore.
BTW, a handy hint. Wrapping the typical socket set universal joint in a
wind or two of duct tape stiffens it up enough so that it'll remain
straight when threaded blind through half an engine, yet retain enough
flexibility to get the 1/4" offset needed at the end.
If the women don't find ya handsome...
Did I mention that I wanted to strangle the engineer who designed it
that way?
Still, my main motivation for wanting to discover time travel is to go
back in time and buy another 81" Civic Wagon...best damn car I've ever
owned.
ObTrav. The left rear grav projector on a 1105 Ling Standard Air Raft
model U is only accessible (for routine recalibration) by taking off
half the fusion plant, the rear fender and the drive electronics box.
As a result, about 85% of the LSP AR/U's out there have a skittish rear
left end, because their grav units are allowed to go until they're
_really_ bad.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 17:47:14 -0600
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces review
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
>
<<snip>>
>
> >And Doug... why did I get to be the biggest bastard of them all? ;-)
>
> Your *name*, Jens.. I couldn't resist the image of these poor recruits
> wilting as this terrifying person thunders "I am Sergeant-Instructor Jens
> Harald Rydholm.."
>
> Besides, you didn't even get the worst of it. I turned Kurt into a
> mind-controled timebomb, killed John Groth, and my friend Greg Aldridge
> nearly choked when he read his write up. (The real Greg has never, to
> anyone's knowledge, shut up. Ever.)
And I _thanked_ him for killing me! (If you don't know why, read the
sidebar on pages 30-31.)
Actually, Jens, look at it this way: Doug entrusted you with the most
important peacetime job in any military: turning recruits into
servicemembers.
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3334
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3335
Date: | 11/27/00 7:20:52 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Monday, November 27 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3335
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Sleep, Children, etc (was Re: Hours in the Day)
Re: Ground Forces review
Re: Dec fun shoot
RE: Full thrust, eh?
Re: Trade volume heresy
Re: Ground Forces review
Re: Ground Forces review
Re: Ground Forces review
Re: Ground Forces review
Re: Sleep, Children, etc
RE: fifth frontier war
Re: fifth frontier war
Re: Vargr in fiction
Re: Ground Forces review
Re: Sleep, Children, etc (was Re: Hours in the Day)
Re: In that case
Re: Ground Forces review
Re: Ground Forces review
Re: IHTFP
Re: IHTFP
Re: Dec fun shoot
Sleep and work patterns was: Hours in a day
RE: fifth frontier war
re: 20 year-old cars was re: Hours is the Day
Re: Vargr in fiction
Re: 20 year-old cars was re: Hours is the Day
Re: fifth frontier war
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 15:57:26 -0800
From: Gordon Horne <gordon.horne@home.com>
Subject: Re: Sleep, Children, etc (was Re: Hours in the Day)
>But wait, there *is* a connection to Traveller. Today, when cats and dogs
>are born, they are able to run around and do their cat and dog things
>shortly after birth. Humans, on the other hand, are basically helpless for
>the first year or so of their life. If Vargr and Aslan are like their small
>furry relatives in this respect, they may have their kids up and running
>around fairly quickly. This will probably have a significant impact on the
>way in which Vargr and Aslan societies are organized.
Aslan are no relation to cats, so let's ignore that one.
Vargr are descended from dogs, but they are bipedal and big headed,
so they are probably like us.
TTFN
g
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 15:42:12
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces review
At 10:52 AM 11/27/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>Then again, I can't think of a sanitized version. On the whole, I thought
>GF was great. Now I just need to figure out this GURPS stuff. By the way,
>what is the MOS for floor buffer specialist ?
11-B. Until the war starts, then we become Warsaw Pact Ammo Collection
Specialists.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 19:10:03 EST
From: GaryBartz@aol.com
Subject: Re: Dec fun shoot
In a message dated 11/27/00 6:48:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:
<< Now despite popular image, New York is a fun place. According to our
anti-militia laws, drilling is only prohibited for people employing guns,
rather specifically defined as our current projectile type weapons. Any
Travellers wandering through and wanting to get in some laser rifle practice
are perfectly safe until the laws are revised. >>
In Michigan the Gov MAY, at his option in emergencies, prohibit persons in a
certain military style uniform from marching with their guns. I ran across
this law this summer while doing research. The law does not specify a group
because of the bill of attainder clause of the state and federal
constitution, but I understand that there was a paramilitary group in the 20s
and 30s in this state which was much like the KKK, and the government got
tired of their crap.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 00:13:39 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Full thrust, eh?
Brian Caball wrote:
> Does anyone know a URL for ground zero games?
Try www.gzg.com
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 13:19:35 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Trade volume heresy
On 28 Nov 2000, at 10:04, Timothy Little wrote:
> I don't think I'll post them to this list (did I hear "Thank God, I've
> had enough economics talk"?), but put them up on a web page.
Please do, when you finsh them. It'll help hold the p*r*cy and near-C rocks at
bay :)
- --
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 13:19:34 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces review
On 27 Nov 2000, at 15:42, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> At 10:52 AM 11/27/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>
> >Then again, I can't think of a sanitized version. On the whole, I thought GF
> >was great. Now I just need to figure out this GURPS stuff. By the way, what is
> >the MOS for floor buffer specialist ?
>
> 11-B. Until the war starts, then we become Warsaw Pact Ammo Collection
> Specialists.
What's 11-B mean in English? And what is it about the US armed forces that
compels them to attach a number to everything?
- --
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 18:26:41 -0600
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces review
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
>
> At 10:52 AM 11/27/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>
> >Then again, I can't think of a sanitized version. On the whole, I thought
> >GF was great. Now I just need to figure out this GURPS stuff. By the way,
> >what is the MOS for floor buffer specialist ?
>
> 11-B. Until the war starts, then we become Warsaw Pact Ammo Collection
> Specialists.
Beg to differ, but Floor Buffer Specialist is not an MOS. Rather, it is
an Assigned Skill Selection, given as a Consolidated Allocation of
Skill, Enlisted. On a standard US Army MOS code, look for the digit "1"
in the fourth position of the 5 (or 7, or 9) digit MOS code. At one
time, with a 9-digit MOS code of 97E1L00AE, I had a CASE of the ASS, and
thus I was required to operate a floor buffer. Once I was promoted to
Sergeant (new MOS code 97E2P00AE), I no longer had a CASE of the ASS.
Indeed, as an NCO, I was authorized to give junior soldiers a CASE of
the ASS. (Junior soldiers learn quickly not to reciprocate; trying to
give NCOs a CASE of the ASS is generally a bad idea.)
ObGT:GF: I Have Truly Found Paradise. ;-)
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:27:04
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces review
At 01:19 PM 11/28/2000 +1300, you wrote:
>> 11-B. Until the war starts, then we become Warsaw Pact Ammo Collection
>> Specialists.
>
>What's 11-B mean in English? And what is it about the US armed forces that
>compels them to attach a number to everything?
The number letter combination is the Military Occupational Speciality. 11
is infantry. The 'B' means light weapons (i.e., a grunt with a rifle.)
11-C is a mortarman, 11-H a TOW missileman, 11-M a Bradley IFV crewman..
We number everything because it is easier to keep track of things that way.
My service number was the same as my Social Security number, and it kept
me from getting confused with any other Berry, Douglas E. that happened to
be in the service.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:38:37 -0800
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces review
> What's 11-B mean in English? And what is it about the US armed forces that
> compels them to attach a number to everything?
>
Basic infantryman. 11 is the Military Occupational Specialty (MOS) number
for infantry. 11C is motars, 11H ATGM. 11B is plain old bullet stopper.
Don't tell me they don't use acromyns and such in the military down under.
Tod
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:43:15 -0800
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com>
Subject: Re: Sleep, Children, etc
>From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
>Subject: Sleep, Children, etc (was Re: Hours in the Day)
>
>Ethan Henry wrote:
>
<snip>
>But wait, there *is* a connection to Traveller. Today, when cats and dogs
>are born, they are able to run around and do their cat and dog things
>shortly after birth. Humans, on the other hand, are basically helpless for
>the first year or so of their life. If Vargr and Aslan are like their small
>furry relatives in this respect, they may have their kids up and running
>around fairly quickly. This will probably have a significant impact on the
>way in which Vargr and Aslan societies are organized.
One of the reasons that human infants are so helpless for so long is
that in order for the fetus' head to fit through the mother's hips, it has
to be born long before the brain is finished developing. I suspect that the
Vargr, sharing a common bone configuration as humans, would have the same
problem and their infants would be similarly helpless. As for the Aslan, it
would depend entirely on what the birth canal had to pass through.
Rod Basler, COFIT
- ------------------------------------
Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 00:52:01 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: fifth frontier war
Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Timothy Little writes:
> > On Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 01:10:48AM -0800, Jeffrey Yin wrote:
> > > This is under the asumption that unlike Traveller, FFW's
> > > rules state that a jump uses up all fuel, regardless of
> > > distance.
> >
> > How does this work? What if you have fuel in a cargo hold?
> > Sorry if these are irritating questions :^)
>
> I think it uses the old rules, in which a J-3 drive _always_
> uses 30% fuel, even if you only go 1 parsec.
Under CT rules if you do not have a jump governor installed a
jump drive always consumed 10% of ships displacement in fuel for
each factor of the jump drive regardless of the actual jump
distance. (So yes a J-3 drive would always use 30% fuel even to
go 1 parsec.) Any additional fuel is *not* used.
In the 5FW game a tanker squadron can refuel 1 squadron per
defense factor ... so a 0-0-6 tanker squadron can refuel up to 6
squadrons. The can count the tanker squadron itself as 1 of the
6. The wording on p10 of the rules *means* once one of more
squadrons have been refueled you can't refuel any more until the
tanker fills up (thus 'freeing' you from the bookkeeping chore of
keeping track of how full its cargo tanks are).
Back to Jeffrey Yin's the original question: No a tanker squadron
would not be stranded as it refuels its own *jump* tanks from its
*cargo* tanks at the same time it refuels the jump-1 colonial
squadron.
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:53:14 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: fifth frontier war
>From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
>How does this work? What if you have fuel in a cargo hold? Sorry if these
are irritating
>questions :^)
It's just a simplification in the game design. Fifth Frontier War, with
hundreds of counters representing squadrons of dozens of ships, just doesn't
require you to keep track of how much fuel is in each ship.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 22:59:04 -0800
From: "Craig Brain" <cjbrain@bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: Vargr in fiction
You could check our Freefall (http://www.purrsia.com/freefall/) or Vernor
Vinge's A Fire Upon the Deep - dealing with a primative Vargr-like race.
Freefall is a comic which involves a genetically engineered wold, a dodgy
alien and a seriously defective droid.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 19:27:12 -0600
From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@mail.elc.net>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces review
From: knightsky@juno.com
>
>> I am happy to see a system to calculate the size of the forces
>> available
>> on a world, but very surprised that it didn't include some kind of
>> simple mass combat system. I kind of expected such a system...
>
>There's already a Mass Combat System in one of the GURPS Compendiums (the
>2nd one, I think).
Which is basically the same as the one in Roleplayer 30, available on the SJ Games site. There is also a mass combat system in GT:Star Mercs.
I just got my copy today from a gaming store and have only just glanced through it (and was pleasantly suprised to see my name in the playtest credits -- if I ever get a comp copy, I'll probably give the one I got today as a gift to a friend <g>). Unfortunately, I also picked up GURPS Reign of Steel and GURPS Bio-Tech (there's a mix ...), so it's going to be hard picking which one gets read first ;)
Brandon
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 17:42:51 -0800
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
Subject: Re: Sleep, Children, etc (was Re: Hours in the Day)
On Mon, 27 Nov 2000 13:06:05 -0800, "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
>But wait, there *is* a connection to Traveller. Today, when cats and dogs
>are born, they are able to run around and do their cat and dog things
>shortly after birth. Humans, on the other hand, are basically helpless for
>the first year or so of their life. If Vargr and Aslan are like their small
>furry relatives in this respect, they may have their kids up and running
>around fairly quickly. This will probably have a significant impact on the
>way in which Vargr and Aslan societies are organized.
Most likely this is not the case. Why? It mostly comes down to
anatomy. Human babies are all born "premature", compared to other mammals,
because otherwise their big braincases wouldn't fit through the birth
canal. (Change the proportions of the pelvis and you get a whole 'nother
set of evolutionary tradeoffs.) We trade intelligence for a longer
development period, some of it necessarily outside of the
mother. Marsupials do something similar, with the still-developing young
being transferred to the pouch (an external womb of sorts) after their birth.
So if our one example of sophonts holds true for the rest, most other
sentient bipeds will also have infants that are more or less helpless for
the first N years of their lives. (You might check out dolphin pups,
though. I'm not sure about their development.)
- --------------
Kelly St.Clair "Homines est! Dici omnes! Soylens viridis HOMINES EST!"
kellys@efn.org
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 20:45:57 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: In that case
In a message dated 27-Nov-00 1:30:41 PM Central Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:
> "diem" is simply singular accusative case, that is, the direct object of the
> verb. ("carpe" means "seize" or "take", and is in the imperative mood,
> meaning that it is a command to the listener.) The nominative singular
case
> (subject of a sentence) is "dies"; genetive singular case (possessive,
shown
> in English by "apostrophe s" ("day's" or "of the day")) is "diei". I leave
> the dative (indirect object) and ablative (instrumental; usually "with a
> day" or "by a day"), as well as the plural forms, as an exercise for the
> reader.
Not to mention the focative case (which is caret) and the future pluperfect
degenerative case . . .
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 14:50:37 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces review
On 27 Nov 2000, at 16:27, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> At 01:19 PM 11/28/2000 +1300, you wrote:
>
> >> 11-B. Until the war starts, then we become Warsaw Pact Ammo Collection
> >> Specialists.
> >
> >What's 11-B mean in English? And what is it about the US armed forces that
> >compels them to attach a number to everything?
>
> The number letter combination is the Military Occupational Speciality. 11
> is infantry. The 'B' means light weapons (i.e., a grunt with a rifle.)
> 11-C is a mortarman, 11-H a TOW missileman, 11-M a Bradley IFV crewman..
>
> We number everything because it is easier to keep track of things that way.
> My service number was the same as my Social Security number, and it kept
> me from getting confused with any other Berry, Douglas E. that happened to
> be in the service.
I understand serial numbers for soldiers, rifles and other things that are all
identical that you might want to keep track of individually, but what's wrong
with calling a mortarman a mortarman? Is it an attempt to save paper? I can see
that noting that someone has these MOS' with a whole string of numbers would
use less space than noting that they were qualified on the M79, M72, had done
the Small Arms Intructors' Course, Navigation and Map-reading, Sniper
Instructors' Course, etc, etc.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 14:56:43 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces review
On 27 Nov 2000, at 16:38, Tod Glenn wrote:
> > What's 11-B mean in English? And what is it about the US armed forces that
> > compels them to attach a number to everything?
> >
>
> Basic infantryman. 11 is the Military Occupational Specialty (MOS) number
> for infantry. 11C is motars, 11H ATGM. 11B is plain old bullet stopper.
>
> Don't tell me they don't use acromyns and such in the military down under.
Not to nearly the same extent. For instance I was an Infantier, no number, no
acronym. Even the Small Arms Coaches Course was usually only abbrievated on
paper (SACC). There are quite a number of slang abbrievations like 'J NCOs' for
the Junior NCO's Traning Course (I think that's its full name), but not much
that's in general use outside of the Paper War.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 21:05:23 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: IHTFP
In a message dated 27-Nov-00 5:48:55 PM Central Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:
> I like the way he handled IHTFP.
> IHTFP is also a popular phrase at the Massachusetts Institute of
Technology.
> It's even part of the Class of 2001 ring design.
We chose to be subtle. We did not, for example, inlcude FTA either.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 20:13:42 -0600
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: IHTFP
GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 27-Nov-00 5:48:55 PM Central Standard Time,
> owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:
>
> > I like the way he handled IHTFP.
> > IHTFP is also a popular phrase at the Massachusetts Institute of
> Technology.
> > It's even part of the Class of 2001 ring design.
>
> We chose to be subtle. We did not, for example, inlcude FTA either.
Ah, yes. FTA. "Fun, Travel, Adventure." ;-)
(I was fortunate to have had an older brother in the US Army, who
informed me of some of the needed survival skills [don't volunteer,
FTA's meaning(s), etc.].)
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 21:14:06 -0500
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Dec fun shoot
>In Michigan the Gov MAY, at his option in emergencies, prohibit persons in
a
certain military style uniform from marching with their guns. I ran across
this law this summer while doing research. The law does not specify a group
because of the bill of attainder clause of the state and federal
constitution, but I understand that there was a paramilitary group in the
20s
and 30s in this state which was much like the KKK, and the government got
tired of their crap.<
About half the states have laws like this, NY and NH included. Some are more
specific that others in terms of defining weapons (NY defining projectile
weapons vs. NH stating "guns, swords, clubs or others weapons"), uniforms
(NY has separate clauses banning Nazi storm trooper uniforms or look-alikes,
NH includes parts of uniforms including buttons, buckles and so forth), what
constitutes a group (two or more being quite popular), and names such groups
can use (usually nothing that can be confused with a State or Federal
military unit).
ObTrav: Read through the 50 separate state codes plus the federal codes
(Usually found under the Laws section of their homepage under the heading
"Military". I have more trouble finding where on the sites the consolidated
laws are hiding than finding which sections contain the relevant
information.) to find suitable examples of the various law levels that
affect projectile weapons as well as for local and Imperial law governing
non-government military forces.
That's where I will be looking from now on.
Sam
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 21:19:09 -0500
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com>
Subject: Sleep and work patterns was: Hours in a day
>Work periods are determined both by social and biological concerns.
>However, the biological concerns are so deeply ingrained that we're not
>really conscious of them. As an example, the majority of the population has
>difficulty sleeping in the day and working at night. Even with a full night
>(er... day) of sleep, most people have difficulty concentrating in the very
>late night and very early morning.
I actually work this schedule about four or five months a year, and it's a
real killer. Indeed, no matter how many hours of sleep I get during the day
the period between five and six am is always a struggle. After decades in
the U.S. Navy I've come to the conclusion that shift workers would have a
much easier time if shifts were rotated by 4 hours. When in service I often
had to get up at 3:30 am to start work at 4, followed by a full day's work.
Likewise I often ended up working until 4 in the morning (on different days)
and while bushed by the time I get to bed I never hit the wall I always seem
to hit when working graveyard shift at about 5 am.
So the shift should be 4 am to noon, noon to 8 and 8 to 4. Much better for
the workers. The day guys get to spend the afternoon with their kids. The
second shift people can see their kids off to school and still get home
before they go to bed and the graveyard workers can go to bed around 5 when
their body is telling them it's time to go to sleep, and still see their
kids before they go to work. It'll never happen though. All the bosses
always work 8 to 5 (w/lunch) and they want to see the day people working the
same hours they do.
Obtrav: Not shift working at all, but rather what kinds of hours do ship's
crews and military work? Most commercial shipping, I believe, work 8 hour
shifts. As I understand it shipboard repair people actually only work days
and get OT if they have to work outside of normal work hours. The
watchstanders work shift work, just like 24/7 establishments ashore.
The military has not yet, of course, kept up and still stand watches based
on the 4 hour watches that originated with the port and starboard watches of
the age of sail. I would hope that the 3I was beyond that. I would imagine
that the jumpspace paradigm might have a lot to do with which watches are
set. After all for the week in jumpspace how many watches does even a
capital ship need? Someone in the engine room and on the bridge certainly,
to wake everyone up if a misjump happens. (As I recall the crew gets about
an hours notice that the ship is coming out of jump.) Otherwise what would
you need watches for. There is no need for sensor operators, com operators,
gunners, flight controls, etc.
I hope GT:SS has something to say about this.
Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 21:38:37 -0500
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com>
Subject: RE: fifth frontier war
As an aside, in the canon 5FW didn't Norris win some big battle by using
tankers to bring ships across the gap? I seem to recall that the tankers
***were*** sucked dry and left in the gap and that the attack was successful
because it was unexpected.
Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost
>From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
>How does this work? What if you have fuel in a cargo hold? Sorry if these
are irritating
>questions :^)
It's just a simplification in the game design. Fifth Frontier War, with
hundreds of counters representing squadrons of dozens of ships, just doesn't
require you to keep track of how much fuel is in each ship.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 18:49:50 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: re: 20 year-old cars was re: Hours is the Day
>From: bruce johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
>ObTrav. The left rear grav projector on a 1105 Ling Standard Air Raft model
U is only accessible >(for routine recalibration) by taking off half the
fusion plant, the rear fender and the drive
>electronics box.
>As a result, about 85% of the LSP AR/U's out there have a skittish rear
left end, because their >grav units are allowed to go until they're _really_
bad.
The Regina Subsector Special Police purchased several of these new in
1105-1106. Some of them survived the Fifth Frontier War, and are in use
today (1111 in my campaign). The rear grav projectors are perfectly
calibrated. The routine 1000-hour calibration is done by a service robot,
who does not complain about having to extend its monitor/adjuster tentacle
between the fusion plant and the drive electronics box.
The rear fender does still have to come off; the robot does that, too.
Yes, the robot is manufactured by and rented from Ling. The Ling ServRob
Charlie series is used for service of all Ling grav vehicles (and a few
knock-offs) in the one to ten dton range.
RSSP does not have a robot for service on the Charlie. Rather, it sends the
Charlie back to Ling for service as needed. A Ling team travels through the
Marches performing scheduled maintenance on ServRobs in use there.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 13:55:11 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Vargr in fiction
On Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 10:59:04PM -0800, Craig Brain wrote:
> You could check our Freefall (http://www.purrsia.com/freefall/) or
> Vernor Vinge's A Fire Upon the Deep - dealing with a primative
> Vargr-like race.
I've been seriously thinking about playing a character in Traveller
based on Vinge's idea. Vargr they're not, however.
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 21:10:15 -0600
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: 20 year-old cars was re: Hours is the Day
"Glenn M. Goffin" wrote:
>
> >From: bruce johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
>
> >ObTrav. The left rear grav projector on a 1105 Ling Standard Air Raft model
> U is only accessible >(for routine recalibration) by taking off half the
> fusion plant, the rear fender and the drive
> >electronics box.
> >As a result, about 85% of the LSP AR/U's out there have a skittish rear
> left end, because their >grav units are allowed to go until they're _really_
> bad.
>
> The Regina Subsector Special Police purchased several of these new in
> 1105-1106. Some of them survived the Fifth Frontier War, and are in use
> today (1111 in my campaign). The rear grav projectors are perfectly
> calibrated. The routine 1000-hour calibration is done by a service robot,
> who does not complain about having to extend its monitor/adjuster tentacle
> between the fusion plant and the drive electronics box.
>
> The rear fender does still have to come off; the robot does that, too.
>
> Yes, the robot is manufactured by and rented from Ling. The Ling ServRob
> Charlie series is used for service of all Ling grav vehicles (and a few
> knock-offs) in the one to ten dton range.
>
> RSSP does not have a robot for service on the Charlie. Rather, it sends the
> Charlie back to Ling for service as needed. A Ling team travels through the
> Marches performing scheduled maintenance on ServRobs in use there.
Ah, sir, you know not how close you come to tempting AuricTech into the
government grav vehicle market. Cost-plus, with a vengeance.
<homer> Mmmmm, credits.... </homer>
Fortunately for the Traveller Universe, AuricTech is not yet ready to
expand to industries other than starship and spacecraft construction.
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 19:17:16 -0800
From: "Jeffrey Yin" <jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu>
Subject: Re: fifth frontier war
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 4:52 PM
Subject: RE: fifth frontier war
> Anthony Jackson wrote:
> > Timothy Little writes:
> > > On Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 01:10:48AM -0800, Jeffrey Yin wrote:
> > > > This is under the asumption that unlike Traveller, FFW's
> > > > rules state that a jump uses up all fuel, regardless of
> > > > distance.
> > >
> > > How does this work? What if you have fuel in a cargo hold?
> > > Sorry if these are irritating questions :^)
> >
> > I think it uses the old rules, in which a J-3 drive _always_
> > uses 30% fuel, even if you only go 1 parsec.
>
> Under CT rules if you do not have a jump governor installed a
> jump drive always consumed 10% of ships displacement in fuel for
> each factor of the jump drive regardless of the actual jump
> distance. (So yes a J-3 drive would always use 30% fuel even to
> go 1 parsec.) Any additional fuel is *not* used.
>
> In the 5FW game a tanker squadron can refuel 1 squadron per
> defense factor ... so a 0-0-6 tanker squadron can refuel up to 6
> squadrons. The can count the tanker squadron itself as 1 of the
> 6. The wording on p10 of the rules *means* once one of more
> squadrons have been refueled you can't refuel any more until the
> tanker fills up (thus 'freeing' you from the bookkeeping chore of
> keeping track of how full its cargo tanks are).
>
> Back to Jeffrey Yin's the original question: No a tanker squadron
> would not be stranded as it refuels its own *jump* tanks from its
> *cargo* tanks at the same time it refuels the jump-1 colonial
> squadron.
>
> Regards PLST
>
Are you sure? The same page notes that a tanker may refuel itself (or
another tanker) in place of the 6 squadrons. I don't have the rule book
here, but it says something about not being able to jump after refueling
other squadrons.
Jeffrey Yin
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3335
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3336
Date: | 11/28/00 3:22:45 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Tuesday, November 28 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3336
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
RE: fifth frontier war
Re: Accountants Everywhere (was Re: Hours in the Day)
Re: Hours in the Day
Re: Hours in the Day
RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
Re: December fun shoot
Re: December fun shoot
Re: Sleep, Children, etc (was Re: Hours in the Day)
RE: December fun shoot
Re: Ground Forces review
Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
Re: Hours in the Day
Re: Ground Forces review
RE: December fun shoot
Re: Sanity check
Re: Ground Forces review
Re: Ground Forces review
Re : sanity check
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 19:42:06 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: fifth frontier war
>From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
>In the 5FW game a tanker squadron can refuel 1 squadron per defense
factor ... so a 0-0-6 >tanker squadron can refuel up to 6 squadrons. The
can count the tanker squadron itself as 1 of >the 6. The wording on p10 of
the rules *means* once one of more squadrons have been
>refueled you can't refuel any more until the tanker fills up (thus
'freeing' you from the
>bookkeeping chore of keeping track of how full its cargo tanks are).
That is incorrect. The rule on page 10 states, "A tanker may refuel itself
(or another tanker), counting as all six squadrons it may refuel; this
allows it to jump again but does not replenish its ability to refuel
squadrons."
The text of the rule ("counting as all six squadrons") is directly contrary
to your assertion that it "can count the tanker as 1 of the 6."
For this reason, a tanker would necessarily be stranded in an empty hex if
it were used to refuel squadrons there (usually the hex next to Louzy,
jump-3 from Farreach).
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 20:27:12 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Accountants Everywhere (was Re: Hours in the Day)
In mail you write:
> Having distant offices probably will require strange accounting. Today, we
> have to file our quarterly reports with the SEC within a certain time of the
> quarter ending. If you have offices where you can't even get the data for a
> few months, you can't really publish accurate reports right away. Maybe you
> will see a series of updated reports issued every quarter which update all
> of the quarterly reports within the last year.
More likely, interstellar companies will do reports based on the
Imperial calendar, as well as ones based on the local one (as may be
required by the local government or local conditions).
Reports to shareholders and the like would be based on "most recently
received" quarterly report, as well as on any significant updates
received since. And possibly a report issued as soon as possible after
*all* the reports for a given quarter had arrived. Depending on the
size of the company and the speed of travel, this could be a month
later or a year later.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 20:51:41 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Hours in the Day
In mail you write:
>>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>
>>BTW, anybody know what the Latin is for "day" (as in 24 hour period,
>>not the opposite of night). I can see that we need *three* words:
>
> "dies" is the Latin word for day (in the nominative case), but why use a
> long-dead language -- why not use the Vilani word?
Mostly because I eventually intend to present this to a non-Traveller
audience.
But what *is* the Vilani word?
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 20:54:30 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Hours in the Day
In mail you write:
> On Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 01:58:55AM -0500, Chris Seamans wrote:
>> We don't need to assume a range of adaptation, there has
>> actually been enough research done to figure it out. Assuming no
>> genetic modification or mutations, our bodies can learn to function
>> with cycles between - if I recall correctly - eighteen and
>> twenty-eight hours.
>
> Yes, that's what I read too.
Got a cite for this? The reference would be handy.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 00:39:26 -0500
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com>
Subject: RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
> Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 21:12:18 +1300
> From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
> Subject: RE: Life on the Edge (of a gazillion rads)
>
> Eris wrote :
> > Sent: Saturday, 25 November 2000 16:08
> > On 11/25/00 at 04:07 PM, "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz> said:
> > >But there would be. Nuclear war will not remove any of the above,
> > >it will just remove the 270 million-odd most wasteful users of
> > >these resources, with any luck.
> >
> > Pbtttth! to you too, Pitt! <g>
> >
> > Eris,
> > one of those 270 million-odd, and odd describes us well ;-) users
>
> I'm glad you took that in the spirit it was intended, Eris.
>
> Now, for the SF trivia buffs, can anyne guess which book I (mis)quoted
that
> from ?
>
> Frankie
"The Sheep Look Up" By John Brunner.
Dave Shayne
"Every day my metal friend
Shakes my bed at 6 AM (Wake up)
Then the shiny servant clones
Running with my telephones."
"Living in the Plastic Age" - Horn/Downes
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 17:27:17 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
From: Mikko V. I. Parviainen <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
>On Sun, 26 Nov 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>> At 10:16 PM 11/26/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>> >Now, waitasecond... I could swear that it was specifically *lesbian*
>> >Aslan that I was warned not to discuss...
>> "Women in comfortable shoes" is an old, old code phrase for lesbians.
>
>Is this a general phrase or something that spawned off TML? (I presume
>it is a general expression.)
The first time I heard it was when Robin Williams said it, when he was
talking about lesbians.
>Does anybody know the etymology of this ? All straight women wore
>uncomfortable shoes? Or what?
Well, have you ever worn high heels?
I bid you peace.
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"
"I don't need Romance. I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
USS Excaliber.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 21:03:13 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: December fun shoot
In mail you write:
>> Bummer. You going?
>> Jesse
>
> I have the advantage of living near Portland, so I will be there. It looks
> like I won't have my subgun paperwork for the shoot, so I'm tagging along
> with a friend to help him get his guns dirty. We should get together with
> Mark for a post shoot beer or something.
When exactly is this shoot happening?
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 21:04:02 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: December fun shoot
In mail you write:
> Now despite popular image, New York is a fun place. According to our
> anti-militia laws, drilling is only prohibited for people employing guns,
> rather specifically defined as our current projectile type weapons. Any
> Travellers wandering through and wanting to get in some laser rifle practice
> are perfectly safe until the laws are revised.
What about gauss rifles?
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 21:11:03 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Sleep, Children, etc (was Re: Hours in the Day)
In mail you write:
> Ethan Henry wrote:
>
>> First, let me agree that there are insufficient hours in a day,
>> not to mention in the night... especially when you 3-month-old is
>> throwing up in your bed at 4 AM. Ugh.
>
> Yep, my first didn't sleep through the night regularly until he was 14
> months old. On the other hand, my second was regularly sleeping for 10 hours
> at a time at about two weeks.
>
> But wait, there *is* a connection to Traveller. Today, when cats and dogs
> are born, they are able to run around and do their cat and dog things
> shortly after birth. Humans, on the other hand, are basically helpless for
> the first year or so of their life. If Vargr and Aslan are like their small
> furry relatives in this respect, they may have their kids up and running
> around fairly quickly. This will probably have a significant impact on the
> way in which Vargr and Aslan societies are organized.
Except that humans are that way because our brains don't finish growing
until considerably after birth. Given that Vargr have similarly large
brains, they probably have a similar problem with not being able to get
a "complete" brain thru the birth canal.
Aslan? Depends on anatomy.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 21:59:17 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: December fun shoot
December 9th, 2000, in Albany Oregon. If you want more info let me or Mark
Cook (markc@peak.org) know and we can give you a full set of info.
Best,
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
> Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 9:03 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: December fun shoot
>
>
> In mail you write:
>
> >> Bummer. You going?
> >> Jesse
> >
> > I have the advantage of living near Portland, so I will be
> there. It looks
> > like I won't have my subgun paperwork for the shoot, so I'm
> tagging along
> > with a friend to help him get his guns dirty. We should get
> together with
> > Mark for a post shoot beer or something.
>
> When exactly is this shoot happening?
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 10:47:25 +0200 (EET)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces review
On Mon, 27 Nov 2000, Tod Glenn wrote:
> 11B is plain old bullet stopper.
I have long been interested in jargons, also military jargon.
There seem to be very many names for different military specialities
in every army, and in every language.
As I have direct experience with just the Finnish army, I could be
interested in different terms for different military people.
Could you tell names for different military jobs? Also, other military
jargon could be interesting, too. Interbranch disputes are very
interesting, as Finnish terms are quite derogatory.
Actually, if I get enough of these I could compile a web page or
something.
'Bullet stopper' is definitely an infantry man.
'Ground pounder', or 'gropo' is another I have heard. Guess which TV
series...
Some of the Finnish jargon, with translations:
Infantry:
Nurmipora (During other seasons than winter, approximately
'grass drill', drill as in a machine which makes
holes.)
Jääkaira (During winter, 'ice pick'. Actually 'kaira' is
a long spiral blade, perhaps like a big drill bit.)
Engineers:
Pinohiiri ('Stack mouse', a pun on 'pioneeri'. You can guess
where that comes from.
SA gunners:
Kuninkaalliset Ohiampujat
('Royal Miss-shooters' or something like that.
People who can't hit anything.
Air force:
Sumukoneenkäyttäjät ('Fog machine operators')
Commo (What is this in English?)
Kelaperse ('reel-ass'. They carry reels of wire.)
Navy:
Silakka (Directly 'Baltic herring', although 'herring'
could be better)
Tonnikala ('Tunafish'. 'Tonnikala' can mean approximately
'A fish which weighs a ton', this has a lot of
meaning when you remember that Finland has a
compulsory military service, and it sometimes
feels that the days left weigh a ton.)
Hm, can't remember anything else at the moment. It has been four year
since my military service, and these were the ones I heard most often.
It seems I have to do some research on this. B-)
- --
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 10:56:06 +0200 (EET)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
On Mon, 27 Nov 2000, Legate Legion wrote:
> From: Mikko V. I. Parviainen <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
> >On Sun, 26 Nov 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> >> At 10:16 PM 11/26/2000 -0500, you wrote:
> >> >Now, waitasecond... I could swear that it was specifically *lesbian*
> >> >Aslan that I was warned not to discuss...
> >> "Women in comfortable shoes" is an old, old code phrase for lesbians.
> >Is this a general phrase or something that spawned off TML? (I presume
> >it is a general expression.)
> The first time I heard it was when Robin Williams said it, when he was
> talking about lesbians.
Well, it just might be that Robin Williams did not invent the phrase.
> >Does anybody know the etymology of this ? All straight women wore
> >uncomfortable shoes? Or what?
> Well, have you ever worn high heels?
No, but very few of my female friends wear them regularily. Actually, none
do, except in special circumstances. Some of them even wear comfortable
shoes. I know, because I have similar shoes.
I never thought that there are so male-dominated societies that women have
to conform only to men's pleasure. Or, on second thought, we have U.S.A.
Forget the two previous sentences...
> Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
> ICQ # 8973001
> legate@futureone.com
>
> "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
> places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
> passes. Entil'zha Veni!"
>
> "I don't need Romance. I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
> USS Excaliber.
<nitpick>
Could you please at least include a signature separator? '-- ' should
be enough.
I _could_ mention that four lines of signature is the generally accepted
maximum length, but I don't.
Thank you.
</nitpick>
- --
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 22:55:51 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Hours in the Day
On 27 Nov 00, at 20:51, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> > "dies" is the Latin word for day (in the nominative case), but why use a
> > long-dead language -- why not use the Vilani word?
> Mostly because I eventually intend to present this to a non-Traveller
> audience.
> But what *is* the Vilani word?
Drandir (from Dran = Day and Dir = Night).
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 02:14:06 -0800
From: "Pronto" <pronto_r031@telus.net>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces review
On Mon, 27 Nov 2000, Tod Glenn wrote:
> 11B is plain old bullet stopper.
Canadian Forces:
031 = Infantry , add an 'R' for reserve (Check my email address)
Informal:
Groundpounder you already know.
Gravel Crushers
Grunts (I would have thought this one was 'universal')
Death Techs
Weekend Warriors (Reserve _ONLY_)
Emma Gees (MGs, Machine Gunners)
Armored:
Zipper Heads (They wear thier Berets one size too small and it looks
zippered on - and something about head trauma from hatches)
Artillery:
Cannon Cockers
Ubiqees (From their motto - 'Ubique')
Air Command:
Zoomies (Two grunts in the mud - look up and see a jet contrail - "Look,
Zoomies", the other replies,in differently, "Uhh")
Pronto AKA Brian Taylor
Pronto_R031@telus.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 10:51:14 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: December fun shoot
> -----Original Message-----
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com [mailto:shadow@krypton.rain.com]
> Sent: 28 November 2000 05:04
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: December fun shoot
>
>
> In mail you write:
>
> > Now despite popular image, New York is a fun place. According to our
> > anti-militia laws, drilling is only prohibited for people
> employing guns,
> > rather specifically defined as our current projectile type
> weapons. Any
> > Travellers wandering through and wanting to get in some
> laser rifle practice
> > are perfectly safe until the laws are revised.
>
> What about gauss rifles?
>
While I haven't seen the statutes, I doubt anyone thought to include gauss
rifles in the current laws.
Dean
Not your lawyer, not a lawyer, not even American ;)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 21:16:49 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Sanity check
In mail you write:
> Given a couple of recent threads, I started thinking about some
> possibilities; I need to know whether a couple of ideas in connection with
> those possibilities are reasonable, plausible, etc.
>
> For all questions below, assume a Traveller Tech Level B minimum; if the
> answer changes with rising tech level, please indicate how it changes and
> at what tech levels.
>
> First: It's pretty clear that nerves and muscles can be stimulated from
> external sources, and that such stimulation can be controlled in fairly
> good detail. Is _suppression_ possible? Context: I am envisioning a
> 'combat simulator' where the user is wearing a full-coverage suit that is
> in communication with the combat simulator's computer. If, for example,
> the user gets 'hit' in an appropriate location, an arm might become
> useless. The suit would have to suppress any nerve impulses that the
> user's brain might send to that arm, to prevent the arm from being used.
> Note that 'locking' the limb of the suit is unsatisfactory for such
> prevention, as a limb that actively resists movement has completely
> different effects on motion and balance from one that's just flopping
> uselessly.
This is doable *now* with to some extent. But it might interfere with
the sensor for his movements, and the feedback.
> Second: Is it reasonable to assume that such detailed interaction with the
> human nervous system can be done 'dry', i.e., the equivalent of
> electrode-to-skin contact, or possibly non-contact induction, with no
> 'prep' substances to increase sensitivity or conductivity? Or, would some
> sort of 'prep' substance be necessary - and if so, what would this
> substance be (e.g., immersion in a liquid, a jelly, a powder, something
> in-between)?
Immersion is out. If the substance improves conductivity, it'll "short"
the electrodes.
> Third: Assume suppression is possible. How fine is it plausible to assume
> that such suppression can be controlled? Could it reasonably be assumed
> that in the event of simulated shrapnel going into one eye, that just that
> eye could be 'suppressed' for the simulation, without interfering with
> other brain function or risking actual damage? Could autonomic functions
> necessary for the body to maintain itself be maintained, with only
> voluntary functions being suppressed? (Obviously, if suppression is _not_
> reasonably possible/plausible, this question can be ignored entirely.)
Ah. No, you can't do that sort of thing above the neck. Probably never
will be able to without "intrusive" hookups (nanotech, focused Q-rays
to stimulate nerves inside the skull, that sort of thing).
However, if you've got a "headset" or some such that can pick up muscle
impulses, and transmit sensory signals, then you can just drop the guy
in a sensory deprivation tank.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 00:15:54 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces review
On 28 Nov 2000, at 10:47, Mikko V. I. Parviainen wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Nov 2000, Tod Glenn wrote:
> > 11B is plain old bullet stopper.
>
> I have long been interested in jargons, also military jargon.
> There seem to be very many names for different military specialities
> in every army, and in every language.
>
> As I have direct experience with just the Finnish army, I could be
> interested in different terms for different military people.
>
> Could you tell names for different military jobs? Also, other military
> jargon could be interesting, too. Interbranch disputes are very
> interesting, as Finnish terms are quite derogatory.
>
> Actually, if I get enough of these I could compile a web page or
> something.
>
> 'Bullet stopper' is definitely an infantry man.
> 'Ground pounder', or 'gropo' is another I have heard. Guess which TV
> series...
>
> Some of the Finnish jargon, with translations:
> Infantry:
> Nurmipora (During other seasons than winter, approximately
> 'grass drill', drill as in a machine which makes
> holes.)
> Jääkaira (During winter, 'ice pick'. Actually 'kaira' is
> a long spiral blade, perhaps like a big drill bit.)
NZ Army: Grunt, PBI (Poor Bloody Infantry).
> Engineers:
> Pinohiiri ('Stack mouse', a pun on 'pioneeri'. You can guess
> where that comes from.
>
> SA gunners:
> Kuninkaalliset Ohiampujat
> ('Royal Miss-shooters' or something like that.
> People who can't hit anything.
> Air force:
> Sumukoneenkäyttäjät ('Fog machine operators')
>
> Commo (What is this in English?)
> Kelaperse ('reel-ass'. They carry reels of wire.)
Sigs.
> Navy:
> Silakka (Directly 'Baltic herring', although 'herring'
> could be better)
> Tonnikala ('Tunafish'. 'Tonnikala' can mean approximately
> 'A fish which weighs a ton', this has a lot of
> meaning when you remember that Finland has a
> compulsory military service, and it sometimes
> feels that the days left weigh a ton.)
Ordinance: Homo Ordinance.
Armour: Wanky Tanky Turret-heads.
Other nick-names were usually made up on the spot as needed, though I'm sure
there are others I've forgotten.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 00:15:54 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces review
On 28 Nov 2000, at 2:14, Pronto wrote:
> Weekend Warriors (Reserve _ONLY_)
Territorials over here. Also known as 'Sunday Soldiers'.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 22:24:31 +1100
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re : sanity check
Jeff Zeitlin wrote :-
> First: It's pretty clear that nerves and muscles can be stimulated from
> external sources, and that such stimulation can be controlled in fairly
> good detail. Is _suppression_ possible?
Effecting paralysis or anaesthesia as per the rest of this part of your
post would be a cinch. We do this routinely with local anaesthetics now
; decent blockade of pain sensation with regional techniques often leads
to motor block.
Note that this leads to the loss of protective cardiovascular reflexes
in the affected part, for example - hence hypotension with epidural or
spinal anaesthesia.
> Second: Is it reasonable to assume that such detailed interaction with the
> human nervous system can be done 'dry', i.e., the equivalent of
> electrode-to-skin contact, or possibly non-contact induction, with no
> 'prep' substances to increase sensitivity or conductivity?
Highly localised transcranial magnetic stimulation may be sufficient to
achieve the effects you want. Otherwise, the impedance of skin limits
what you can do with electricity. Some method of bypassing this is
required, hence gel (ECG/EKG) or needle electrodes (EEG/EMG) or abrading
the most superficial layer of skin.
> Third: Assume suppression is possible. How fine is it plausible to assume
> that such suppression can be controlled?
Down to individual motor units (all the muscle fibres supplied by a
given nerve) if you assume you can block single nerve fibres.
Sky's the limit once you start mucking about with the cerebral cortex.
Oliver Sack's books are very illustrative in this regard.
> Could it reasonably be assumed
> that in the event of simulated shrapnel going into one eye, that just that
> eye could be 'suppressed' for the simulation, without interfering with
> other brain function or risking actual damage?
The visual pathways are relatively complex, offering several points of
interruption to enable the simulation of blindness. Appropriate
transcranial stimulation of the occipital lobes at the back of the brain
would render someone blind.
> Could autonomic functions
> necessary for the body to maintain itself be maintained, with only
> voluntary functions being suppressed?
Yes ; just leave the brainstem and spinal cord alone. Fool around the
motor and sensory processing regions of the cerebral cortex. Quite
discrete effects can be produced depending on the region
stimulated/inhibited.
Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3336
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3337
Date: | 11/28/00 9:26:24 AM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, November 28 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3337
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: December fun shoot
RE: fifth frontier war
Re: Full thrust, eh?
RE: December fun shoot
Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
Re: Accountants Everywhere (was Re: Hours in the Day)
LLaekag (Gvurrdon 3040)
shadows questions
Re: Trade volume heresy
Re: shadows questions
Re: shadows questions
RE: shadows questions
RE: shadows questions
Re: December fun shoot
Re: December fun shoot
Re: IHTFP
Re: Ground Forces review
RE: Full thrust, eh?
Safari ship...
Re: LLaekag (Gvurrdon 3040)
Re: IHTFP
RE: December fun shoot
Re: December fun shoot
Re: December fun shoot
Re: IHTFP
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 03:24:51 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: December fun shoot
In mail you write:
> December 9th, 2000, in Albany Oregon. If you want more info let me or Mark
> Cook (markc@peak.org) know and we can give you a full set of info.
Ok, that's a day I can have free.
Next question is if anybody is willing to swing out into NE Portland to
get me. I can pay for gas.
Alas, the most "fun" thing to shoot that I own is an SKS. Well, there's
also the pellet gun with the "skeleton" stock and pistol grip. :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 12:17:01 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: fifth frontier war
Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> The text of the rule ("counting as all six squadrons") is directly
> contrary to your assertion that it "can count the tanker as 1 of
> the 6."
>
> For this reason, a tanker would necessarily be stranded in an
> empty hex if it were used to refuel squadrons there (usually the
> hex next to Louzy, jump-3 from Farreach).
I understand what you are saying but I don't *think* that was
what the author intended. My interpretarion of the author's
*intent* was to say that refuelling a tanker squadron from itself
or another tanker squadron means refilling its jump tanks, not
its cargo tanks. Thus it can jump again but it can't refuel
other squadrons again (otherwise you would have a perpetual fuel
source).
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 06:20:17 -0600
From: D Smart <dsmart@imagin.net>
Subject: Re: Full thrust, eh?
Trevor, Peter posted:
>
> Brian Caball wrote:
> > Does anyone know a URL for ground zero games?
>
> Try www.gzg.com
They can also be reached through GeoHex's site:
www.geohex.com
While you're there, check out GeoHex's line of
scifi vehicle in the 25mm range. Awesome.
David
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 12:25:01 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: December fun shoot
Sam wrote:
> Now despite popular image, New York is a fun place. According
> to our anti-militia laws, drilling is only prohibited for people
> employing guns, rather specifically defined as our current
> projectile type weapons. Any Travellers wandering through and
> wanting to get in some laser rifle practice are perfectly safe
> until the laws are revised.
I seem to remember something called "Metal Storm" (invented by an
Australian). Does that count? Could be a fun toy!
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 12:31:45 +0000
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
Qstor@aol.com (Mike) wrote
>>For those who have just joined TML, they're both BITS books available
from
>>Warehouse 23 and other places. The first is 60 odd pages and covers
>>everything Travel covers all the periodical articles from JTAS, MT
Journal, Challenge, >>Trav Digest and Trav Chronicle.
>I know there were a few articles in Dragon as well...before they only
allowed
>WOTC game related articles...One was by Mark Miller on Luna...Another one
has
>more adventure ideas for the Tarsus module...
Well done for spotting that they weren't covered by the two books above.
However, coverage of such articles (and those from White Dwarf, Signal GK
and all sorts of other places) is planned for the third (and hopefully)
final volume of bibliography. I should say though that this is probably a
year or two off yet.
I would *like* to include as much as I can from fanzines as well but this
rather depends on being able to track down some very obscure material!
I'll let TML know in a couple of years what I'm still looking for if that's
fine with everyone.
In the meantime, if anyone does come across any Traveller articles (aside
from JTAS obviously) please don't hesitate to let me know. If it's new I
may not know about it.
Thanks for the interest.
tc
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 08:04:01 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Accountants Everywhere (was Re: Hours in the Day)
>Reports to shareholders and the like would be based on "most recently
>received" quarterly report, as well as on any significant updates
>received since. And possibly a report issued as soon as possible after
>*all* the reports for a given quarter had arrived. Depending on the
>size of the company and the speed of travel, this could be a month
>later or a year later.
The obvious parallel would be British companies invested in Australia and
New Zealand last century. How did *they* handle the travel times from
distant holdings? Unfortunately, I don't know, so I throw the question open
to anyone who has an idea....
I'm going to pass this on to my accountant friend, see if she knows, or
knows someone who knows.
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 08:11:17 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: LLaekag (Gvurrdon 3040)
I saw this world on Anothony's Map site (http://maps.grandsurvey.com/ )
last night but noted it isn't on the sector map in AM3? :) Which one is
incorrect? :)
I hope I noted the map location correctly in the subject line...
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 08:12:34 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: shadows questions
Subj:
Shadows Questions
For GMs 2 questions:)
Is there some connection to the Ancients and the pyramid? I read through the
module last night againbut didnt see anything mentioned. I thought that
elsewhere, I had seen the Shadows is part of a trilogy with Adv 3 and Adv 12?
Just wondering?
Has anyone run this in GT? Any hints? I saw that BtC p.83 lists the
atmosphere as fluroine...VERY tough on the PCs....
Thanks!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 05:16:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Trade volume heresy
Instead of using distance, use jumps.
- --- Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net> wrote:
> > BTN = Min(WTN1,WTN2) + Abs(WTN2-WTN1)/6 + WTCM - Distance Mod.
>
> I'm still fiddling with the formula a bit. I get better results
> moving the base WTN's up by 0.5 and raising the divisor to 8. This
> gives trade/GWP in the range 1-30% for most planets, with
> trade-hostile planets going down to 0.01% or less, to around 400% for
> highly trade-dependent worlds.
>
> IMTU, the distance modifier will be altered. It is not too bad as it
> stands, but the cost of shipping is rather low in comparison to the
> value of trade goods shipped for trade to drop off so quickly.
>
> It may be reasonable, but it looks very strange for a system only 3
> parsecs away to have its trade volume cut by a factor of 10 when
> shipping still costs only 10% of the average value of goods traded
> (and is reachable in the same time as a system 1 parsec away). I
> would expect a smoother transition, so I'll be making one.
>
>
> --
> IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++
> as+ so- kk--
> Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
=====
Gerry Harris
**********************************************************************************************
Æther Traveller — http://www.aethertraveller.com
Soldier's Companion — http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html
**********************************************************************************************
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war" — Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1
**********************************************************************************************
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 08:30:45 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: shadows questions
> Has anyone run this in GT? Any hints? I saw that BtC p.83 lists the
> atmosphere as fluroine...VERY tough on the PCs....
Weren't these pyramids revealed to be artifacts of the Hhkar? I remember
reading a pre-print of Mike Mikesh's article on that race, and recall the
tie-in to them. That was quite some time ago, though, and I may be
misremembering.
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 13:30:42 +0000
From: Rob Myers <robm@h2g2.com>
Subject: Re: shadows questions
Qstor@aol.com wrote:
> Is there some connection to the Ancients and the pyramid?
Well, with the information you can get from Shadows and the other two
adventures it's possible to figure out any connections.
> I thought that
> elsewhere, I had seen the Shadows is part of a trilogy with Adv 3 and Adv 12?
> Just wondering?
Yes, they're just about my favourite adventures of all time.
BITS had some Droyne Coyns from SJG at Dragon Meet, where are those from
exactly? :-)
- - Rob.
- --
Rob Myers - http://www.robmyers.org/ H2G2 - http://www.h2g2.com/
MacOS wonderfulness for The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy Game.
"Smash Global Capitalism! Spend less money!"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 13:59:52 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: shadows questions
AR3
Dean
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Myers [mailto:robm@h2g2.com]
> Sent: 28 November 2000 13:31
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: shadows questions
>
>
> Qstor@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Is there some connection to the Ancients and the pyramid?
>
> Well, with the information you can get from Shadows and the other two
> adventures it's possible to figure out any connections.
>
> > I thought that
> > elsewhere, I had seen the Shadows is part of a trilogy
> with Adv 3 and Adv 12?
> > Just wondering?
>
> Yes, they're just about my favourite adventures of all time.
>
> BITS had some Droyne Coyns from SJG at Dragon Meet, where are
> those from
> exactly? :-)
>
> - Rob.
>
> --
> Rob Myers - http://www.robmyers.org/ H2G2 - http://www.h2g2.com/
> MacOS wonderfulness for The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy Game.
> "Smash Global Capitalism! Spend less money!"
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 14:00:21 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: shadows questions
Sorry, that should have read G:T AR3 ;)
Dean
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Myers [mailto:robm@h2g2.com]
> Sent: 28 November 2000 13:31
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: shadows questions
>
>
> Qstor@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Is there some connection to the Ancients and the pyramid?
>
> Well, with the information you can get from Shadows and the other two
> adventures it's possible to figure out any connections.
>
> > I thought that
> > elsewhere, I had seen the Shadows is part of a trilogy
> with Adv 3 and Adv 12?
> > Just wondering?
>
> Yes, they're just about my favourite adventures of all time.
>
> BITS had some Droyne Coyns from SJG at Dragon Meet, where are
> those from
> exactly? :-)
>
> - Rob.
>
> --
> Rob Myers - http://www.robmyers.org/ H2G2 - http://www.h2g2.com/
> MacOS wonderfulness for The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy Game.
> "Smash Global Capitalism! Spend less money!"
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 06:47:40 -0800
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: December fun shoot
on 11/27/00 9:03 PM, Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:
> In mail you write:
>
>>> Bummer. You going?
>>> Jesse
>>
>> I have the advantage of living near Portland, so I will be there. It looks
>> like I won't have my subgun paperwork for the shoot, so I'm tagging along
>> with a friend to help him get his guns dirty. We should get together with
>> Mark for a post shoot beer or something.
>
> When exactly is this shoot happening?
Dec 9 from 9-4 at the Albany Rifle and Pistol club. $9.00 form shooters,
$5.00 for spectators.
Tod
- --
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend"
- --
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.solsec.org
http://www.grandsurvey.com
http://travellerguns.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 06:55:44 -0800
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: December fun shoot
on 11/28/00 4:25 AM, Trevor, Peter at Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com wrote:
> Sam wrote:
>> Now despite popular image, New York is a fun place. According
>> to our anti-militia laws, drilling is only prohibited for people
>> employing guns, rather specifically defined as our current
>> projectile type weapons. Any Travellers wandering through and
>> wanting to get in some laser rifle practice are perfectly safe
>> until the laws are revised.
>
> I seem to remember something called "Metal Storm" (invented by an
> Australian). Does that count? Could be a fun toy!
>
> Regards PLST
>
>
Metal storm fits the federal definition of a firearms (Expels a projectile
through the action of a combustion or explosion and firing fixed
ammunition), and most state laws start with the federal definition, so I'd
expect yes.
I believe NY also classifies blowguns, dartguns and such as firearms, so
Gauss guns are probably covered.
Tod
- --
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend"
- --
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.solsec.org
http://www.grandsurvey.com
http://travellerguns.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 07:35:09
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: IHTFP
At 09:05 PM 11/27/2000 EST, you wrote:
>> I like the way he handled IHTFP.
>We chose to be subtle. We did not, for example, inlcude FTA either.
And I have gotten more feedback from veterans over that one line than
anything else in the book.
What kind of soldier would *I* be if I couldn't scrawl IHTFP somewhere?
Of course, I used to have a photo of me taken in Honduras, standing in
front of a wall where, god as my witness, "Yankee Go Home" was painted.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 07:31:50
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces review
At 10:47 AM 11/28/2000 +0200, you wrote:
>Some of the Finnish jargon, with translations:
Oh, where were you when I was *writing* this book? :)
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 08:29:45 -0800
From: "tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@bigfoot.com>
Subject: RE: Full thrust, eh?
LOL.
Evidently Geohex is using IIS 4.0.
At least they have posted the "hello world, I have a webserver w/o a default
webpage" webpage from IIS 4.0.
The gzg.com domain is having similar problems at this time.. Hmmm.. Anyone
else having this problem, or is it just my DNS?
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of D Smart
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 4:20 AM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: Re: Full thrust, eh?
Trevor, Peter posted:
>
> Brian Caball wrote:
> > Does anyone know a URL for ground zero games?
>
> Try www.gzg.com
They can also be reached through GeoHex's site:
www.geohex.com
While you're there, check out GeoHex's line of
scifi vehicle in the 25mm range. Awesome.
David
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 05:03:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>
Subject: Safari ship...
Hi All,
This is my first post to the list, so I apologize
if someone has brought this up before. I just got a
copy of FFE's CT: The Classic Adventures, and saw
'Safari Ship' for the first time. Does it strike
anyone else that this would make a _much_ better scout
ship than the 'Courier'?
Just a thought......
Michael A Cessna
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 09:09:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: LLaekag (Gvurrdon 3040)
Qstor@aol.com writes:
>
>
> I saw this world on Anothony's Map site (http://maps.grandsurvey.com/ )
>
> last night but noted it isn't on the sector map in AM3? :) Which one is
> incorrect? :)
Hm...probably AM3, though my map agrees with Galactic.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 09:09:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
Subject: Re: IHTFP
On Tue, 28 Nov 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> At 09:05 PM 11/27/2000 EST, you wrote:
>
> >> I like the way he handled IHTFP.
>
> >We chose to be subtle. We did not, for example, inlcude FTA either.
>
> And I have gotten more feedback from veterans over that one line than
> anything else in the book.
>
What do these acronyms stand for? I've never been in the military. The
closest I've ever gotten to being in the military has been being in bed
with someone in it.
> What kind of soldier would *I* be if I couldn't scrawl IHTFP somewhere?
>
> Of course, I used to have a photo of me taken in Honduras, standing in
> front of a wall where, god as my witness, "Yankee Go Home" was painted.
>
ROTFL!
Kiri ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..." -- X-JAPAN
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 17:15:45 -0000
From: Matt Bond <MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RE: December fun shoot
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tod Glenn [mailto:webmaster@travellercentral.com]
> Sent: 28 November 2000 14:56
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: December fun shoot
>
>
> on 11/28/00 4:25 AM, Trevor, Peter at Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com wrote:
>
> > Sam wrote:
> >> Now despite popular image, New York is a fun place. According
> >> to our anti-militia laws, drilling is only prohibited for people
> >> employing guns, rather specifically defined as our current
> >> projectile type weapons. Any Travellers wandering through and
> >> wanting to get in some laser rifle practice are perfectly safe
> >> until the laws are revised.
> >
> > I seem to remember something called "Metal Storm" (invented by an
> > Australian). Does that count? Could be a fun toy!
> >
> > Regards PLST
> >
> >
> Metal storm fits the federal definition of a firearms (Expels
> a projectile
> through the action of a combustion or explosion and firing fixed
> ammunition), and most state laws start with the federal
> definition, so I'd
> expect yes.
>
> I believe NY also classifies blowguns, dartguns and such as
> firearms, so
> Gauss guns are probably covered.
Hmmm, a blowgun is powered by increasing gas pressure, as are
conventional firearms, and airguns etc.
A Gauss rifle isn't...
A possible technical loophole depending on exactly how they define
things in statute. You would think that they would define things in
terms of muzzle energy and penetration. This could also apply to lasers
(as energy comes out of the muzzle, and they can penetrate objects).
If you defined a firearm as a minimum muzzle energy of xxxx Joules
and/or capable of making a hole in a standard type of blackened
cardboard yyy mm thick such that a light of zzz brightness can be seen
through the hole by the naked eye, that should cover most
eventualities...
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 12:17:23 -0500
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: December fun shoot
<(ii) "Military weapon" means any device capable of discharging a
projectile by means of a gas generated from an explosive compound, or
any explosive or incendiary bomb, grenade, rocket, missile, or similar
device or launching device therefor; or any device that simulates any of
the foregoing.>
That is the appropriate section so it looks likes gauss weapons would be
included since they simulate a projectile being launched by a gas generated
from an explosive compound. Since lasers do no do have a projectile they can
try slipping by this provision. Plasma and fusion weapons would likely get
nipped as being incendiary though. Still, this can be used as the base for a
relatively moderate law level and with the appropriate exclusions take even
lower ones into account.
<No organization, society, club, post, order, league or other combination of
persons, or civil group, or any members thereof, are authorized to assume
any semblance of military organization or character by bearing or possessing
rifles, pistols, sabres, clubs, or military weapons of any kind, or wearing
a military uniform of any kind. >
That however is the NH statue section that defines weapons. Note the use of
the word "clubs". A little expansion here would definitely serve for high
end law levels.
Sam
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 17:19:00 +0000
From: Rob Myers <robm@h2g2.com>
Subject: Re: December fun shoot
Meson pistols it is, then. :-)
- - Rob.
Matt Bond wrote:
>
> If you defined a firearm as a minimum muzzle energy of xxxx Joules
> and/or capable of making a hole in a standard type of blackened
> cardboard yyy mm thick such that a light of zzz brightness can be seen
> through the hole by the naked eye, that should cover most
> eventualities...
- --
Rob Myers - http://www.robmyers.org/ H2G2 - http://www.h2g2.com/
MacOS wonderfulness for The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy Game.
"Smash Global Capitalism! Spend less money!"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 11:25:41 -0600
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: IHTFP
Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
>
> On Tue, 28 Nov 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>
> > At 09:05 PM 11/27/2000 EST, you wrote:
> >
> > >> I like the way he handled IHTFP.
> >
> > >We chose to be subtle. We did not, for example, inlcude FTA either.
> >
> > And I have gotten more feedback from veterans over that one line than
> > anything else in the book.
> >
> What do these acronyms stand for? I've never been in the military. The
> closest I've ever gotten to being in the military has been being in bed
> with someone in it.
The slightly sanitized versions would be:
I Hate This Fornicating Place
Fornicate The Army
<<snip>>
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3337
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3338
Date: | 11/28/00 2:53:03 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Tuesday, November 28 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3338
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Striker at DunDraCon!
Re: December fun shoot
Re: December fun shoot
Re: Safari ship...
Re: Hex grid justification
Re: IHTFP
Re: IHTFP
Re: shadows questions
Re: Ground Forces review
Jodies (Imperial, Zhodani and others)
Re: Ground Forces review
Re: shadows questions
RE: Safari ship
Re: December fun shoot
Re: Who's Who
Re: Ground Forces review
The Regina Tattler
Re: December fun shoot
Re: December fun shoot
Re: IHTFP
Re: IHTFP
Re: December fun shoot
Re: Ground Forces review Interservice Slights
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 09:04:16 -0800
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: Striker at DunDraCon!
I have signed up to run a Striker game at DunDraCon
(http://www.dundracon.com) this February. The scenario will be a variant of
the TL 5 Heya scenario that we played at the San Jose Traveller meeting in
November. I plan to blow some money on GeoHex terrain, so it should look
good as well as be fun.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 10:02:46 -0800
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: December fun shoot
> <No organization, society, club, post, order, league or other combination
of
> persons, or civil group, or any members thereof, are authorized to assume
> any semblance of military organization or character by bearing or
possessing
> rifles, pistols, sabres, clubs, or military weapons of any kind, or
wearing
> a military uniform of any kind. >
Ouch. So much for that infamous paramiltary organization: the cub scouts.
Tod
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 13:11:14 -0500
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: December fun shoot
>Ouch. So much for that infamous paramiltary organization: the cub scouts.<
They get covered under another section I believe. Barely exempted for one
reason or other.
But yes, makes you stop and think. I was originally checking this to see how
it might affect martial arts schools. (Let me see, "uniforms" - check,
"clubs" - check, "paramilitary training" - check. Uh oh. Well, I'm in NY and
we don't use rifles or grenades so I'm safe.)
Sam
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 10:30:06 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Safari ship...
>From: Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>
>Subject: Safari ship...
...
> This is my first post to the list, so I apologize
>if someone has brought this up before. I just got a
>copy of FFE's CT: The Classic Adventures, and saw
>'Safari Ship' for the first time. Does it strike
>anyone else that this would make a _much_ better scout
>ship than the 'Courier'?
Well, it's got the pool and the wet bar as standard, right?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 10:37:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Hex grid justification
Whereas your justification of the hex grid system is interesting, I've
got a problem with your contention that while there are numerous stars
per hex, only one star is strategically important enough to be listed.
For example, I've got about 150 stars mapped out in 3D in the Solomani
Rim. Several hexes contain four stars, and at least one hex contains
five stars. Even if there is only one inhabited planet in that
five-star hex, there are five separate solar systems wherein a military
could set up secret logistics bases (bypassing the main system
altogether, and probably undetected by enemy powers); five separate
solar systems wherein resources can be tapped; five separate solar
systems wherein pirates could hide undetected and unmolested; five
separate solar systems which could house dissidents, rebels or alien
races.
When I was working out the 3D map, I was keeping in mind the Solomani
Rim War. Wolfe's strategic position would have been extremely tenuous
if he had to spread his forces over several systems per hex to blunt
the Imperial attacks. Conversely, the Imperium would have trouble
maintaining supply lines if Wolfe's forces could strike from any of a
number of systems *within the same hex* and then retire. Hunting for
these raiders would now consume exponentially more forces than if there
was only one system per hex.
=====
Gerry Harris
**********************************************************************************************
Æther Traveller — http://www.aethertraveller.com
Soldier's Companion — http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html
**********************************************************************************************
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war" — Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1
**********************************************************************************************
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 12:46:48 -0600
From: ybrekp@mtco.com
Subject: Re: IHTFP
Unless a senior Officer or NCO is asking the question, and then the
correct answer is:
I Have Truly Found Paradise
Kerby
John Groth wrote:
> The slightly sanitized versions would be:
>
> I Hate This Fornicating Place
> Fornicate The Army
>
> <<snip>>
>
> - --
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 11:31:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
Subject: Re: IHTFP
I think I'm going to put that up on my desk somewhere. Just the letters.
LOL!
On Tue, 28 Nov 2000 ybrekp@mtco.com wrote:
> Unless a senior Officer or NCO is asking the question, and then the
> correct answer is:
>
> I Have Truly Found Paradise
>
>
> Kerby
>
> John Groth wrote:
> > The slightly sanitized versions would be:
> >
> > I Hate This Fornicating Place
> > Fornicate The Army
> >
> > <<snip>>
> >
> > - --
>
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..." -- X-JAPAN
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 14:33:27 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: Re: shadows questions
>Weren't these pyramids revealed to be artifacts of the >Hhkar? I remember reading a pre-print of Mike Mikesh's >article on that race, and recall the tie-in to them.
Was this in JTAS?
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 11:56:23 -0800
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces review
>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
>Subject: Re: Ground Forces review
>
<snip>
>
>Could you tell names for different military jobs? Also, other military
>jargon could be interesting, too. Interbranch disputes are very
>interesting, as Finnish terms are quite derogatory.
>
<snip>
>
>Commo (What is this in English?)
> Kelaperse ('reel-ass'. They carry reels of wire.)
How's about "Spool Mule" as an English version? ...it rhymes and
falls off the tongue a little better...
Rod Basler, COFIT
- -----------------------------------------------
Disclaimer - It's not their fault, OK?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 12:09:13 -0800
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Jodies (Imperial, Zhodani and others)
OK, I know there are quite a number of filkers on the list who are also
prior service.
Anyone tried there hand at writing some jodies? I mention this as I was
recently reminded of one of my personal favorites. If anyone knows the
complete form, please let men know.
(any army types will recognize the inspiration)
IBM selectric rolling down that strip,
AG daddy gonna take a little trip.
TDY to Paris, France,
Gonna wine and dine and dance.
What do those Imperial troops sing during their morning run?
Tod
- ----
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
- ----
Tod Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.travellerguns.com
http://www.solsec.org
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 12:18:36 -0800
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces review
> Armored:
> Zipper Heads (They wear thier Berets one size too small and it looks
> zippered on - and something about head trauma from hatches)
Tread Heads
Interservice rivalry is always fun too. The navy are squids, the marines
jar heads. I recall a naval officer opining that a marine was "a highly
trained idiot". A marine I passed this on to replied that sailors were "a
lower life form that lives off marine waste".
Since DB has adopted the regimental motto in GT:GF, we can probably assume
an active inter-regimental rivalry. Some are undoubtably ancient and
famous.
Tod
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 14:18:54 -0600
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: shadows questions
At 02:33 PM 11/28/2000 -0500, you wrote:
> >Weren't these pyramids revealed to be artifacts of the >Hhkar? I
> remember reading a pre-print of Mike Mikesh's >article on that race, and
> recall the tie-in to them.
>
>Was this in JTAS?
>
>
>Mike
The article on the Hhkar is in Challenge 52. I remember the same thing,
but I couldn't find it in the Challenge article (I may have missed it), so
I may have read the same stuff from Mike Mikesh.
Jimmy Simpson
nimrodd@mail.com
"The avalanche has already started.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
-Kosh Naranek (Babylon 5)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 15:46:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: RE: Safari ship
Michael Cessna writes:
>Hi All,
Hi Michael, welcome to the list.
>This is my first post to the list, so I apologize
>if someone has brought this up before. I just got a
>copy of FFE's CT: The Classic Adventures, and saw
>'Safari Ship' for the first time. Does it strike
>anyone else that this would make a _much_ better scout
>ship than the 'Courier'?
>Just a thought......
I suspect that the type S Scout/Courier is widely
used because of its low price. It also allows the
Scout service to get by with one standard design
as both scout and courier. One more thing: IIRC
the Safari Ship only makes 1 G maneuver. The
extra G that the type S has may be handy when
fleeing danger, taking off of large worlds, chasing
smugglers, moving around while exploring a
system, etc.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 10:37:54 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: December fun shoot
On 28 Nov 2000, at 12:17, Samuel D. Weiss wrote:
> <No organization, society, club, post, order, league or other combination of
> persons, or civil group, or any members thereof, are authorized to assume any
> semblance of military organization or character by bearing or possessing rifles,
> pistols, sabres, clubs, or military weapons of any kind, or wearing a military
> uniform of any kind. >
>
> That however is the NH statue section that defines weapons. Note the use of the
> word "clubs". A little expansion here would definitely serve for high end law
> levels.
This technically outlaws teams sports like hockey (all kinds), baseball,
cricket, etc. They bear weapons (clubs), have uniforms (not considered military
right now, but historically having a uniform made you military), and having a
semblance of military organisation (where do you think the title 'captain'
comes from?)
- --
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 13:55:43 -0800
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: Who's Who
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Karen and Michael Hughes" <kmhughes@dynamite.com.au>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2000 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: Who's Who
> Cool - me like idea of an online repository of personalities that are easy
> to grab (and being tailored towards race, occupation, sector and milieu).
> One possible suggestion - make the info contained within fairly generic -
> instead of minutely detailed skill & stat sets, just infer what abilities
> they have (shudder - this comes from TSR - apologies rendered). That way
all
> game mechanics can be covered and tailored for taste - from classic & MT
> through to New Era, T4 or GURPS.
>
> Okay here's an example.
>
> Tab Volet, Artist (Beat Poet) Milieu: Any Sector: Any
>
[snip]
From my website:
- --------------------------------------------------
The Weseli family is well known to the underword and streetwise individuals
on Regina as a family of petty crooks. They participate primarily in
harmless small time operations such as confidence games, petty theft,
trafficking in low value stolen goods, pick pocketing and the like. They are
usually a good source of information (i.e. the word on the street) given the
right motivation (e.g. cash, threat of imprisonment, etc.). The family
nickname, 'the weasel' is an apt description of Weseli moral character. The
character listed here respresent only a one of the vast weseli family,
located primarily on Regina/REGINA, but some members of the family are
located on nearby worlds performing their essential function--possible
wainting for things to 'cool off' back home.
Laurence "Lenny" Weseli, Sr. AKA "Lenny the Weasel"
Patriarch of the vast Weseli clan, 'Weasel Senior' or 'Pop the weasel' is
now living in semi-retirement and operates the 'Weseli Bros. Pawn Emporeum
[sic]' on Regina orbital in the Old Port section. Although Pop has a lengthy
criminal record, he has done no 'hard' time and prides himself on the fact
that he has never used violence. Pop does not consider himself as a
criminal, but merely someone who 'redistributes wealth to the deserving poor
(i.e. himself)'. He is also 'a guy who hears things', and always seems to
have information on any criminal activity--for a price.
Pop Weseli is of short stature and slight build. He seems to have a
permanent '5 o'clock shadow' despite the actual time of day, and his
personal hygene can be described as 'casual'. He will normally be
encountered wearing a stained tank top, sometimes with a grimy fatigue
shirt. "Hey, I'm a veteran".
The information provided by any Weseli will normally be vague, and often
this same information will be available in common sources if one looks hard
enough.
- -----------------------------------------------
H. Duncan LaBland
Assuming the post of Solomani Consul, Horace Duncan LaBland is the epitome
of the Solomani everyman. He is of average height and weight, with perfect
teeth and the rubber-stamped good looks of government issue bio-sculpting.
LaBland is a professional politician, diplomat and opportunist. After
graduating fom university with solid average marks he joined the party and
served an obligatory 4 year term in the Solomani army as a political
officer.
After leaving the service, he took the civil service exam and was selected
for the foreign service. He had a rather unremarkable, average carreer until
he requests assignment in the Marches. The Solomani consider this area the
sticks, but promotions come faster there. He was assigned to the embassy on
Rhylanor as cultural attaché. Careful political political manuevering and a
willingness to do anything to climb the professional ladder land him the
post of consul to [world].
Of his personality, the best that could be said is that he probably has
one - somewhere. He is methodical, fastidious and politically correct. He
despises filth, aliens, strangeness, stupidity, genius and anything else not
'normal'. He is a typical average Solomani citizen.
- ----------------------------------------------------
Christopher Blaelok
Little is known about the recent appointee as Solomani Ambassador, Mr.
Christopher Blaelok. According to his official bio, he is a native of Home
and held several unspecified governmental posts before travelling to the
Marches. There, with partner Nathan Andrews, he founded the Palladium Group,
a shadowy organization involved in research and "unspecified jobs requiring
ability and discretion". Internal struggles within the Palladium Group lead
to the mysterious disappearances of both Nathan Adrews and Blaelok, leaving
Michael Griffin in control of the enterprise.
Blaelok reappeared some months later, having been to the Rim and returned
with an appointment as Solomani Ambassador.
Blaelok is distinguished by his strong Solomani accent and superbly tailored
rim-style clothing. He has eschewed the bio-sculpting common among the upper
echelons of Solomani society, and the kindest comment on his appearance one
could make is that he is "plain". He has extremely pale skin and black eyes
which seem to rarely blink, a feature that many find unsettling He moves
with the fluid grace of a dancer, and is never surprised.
Blaelok is assumed to be a past or active member of SolSec, and rumors
continue to circulate that his cultured manners and urbane appearance
conceal a monster of unimaginable cruelty and evil. He is divorced from his
wife Pamela and has no children. Like many in the rim, he is a vegetarian.
He does not drink or smoke intoxicants, and appears to have no obvious
vices. Like many from the rim, his 'natural' caution can seem like extreme
paranoia. He has no close friends, and dislike physical contact. He is a
workaholic, and people who know him have been given to wonder if he ever
sleeps.
When not making inhabited space safe for Solomani, he tends his
prize-winning orchids, listens to opera and spends time with his menagerie
of pets. He is known to be a fanatical animal lover and supports the SPCA
with large contributions.
As the Solomani Ambassador, he is protected by the Ambassadorial Conventions
of the year 3, and has diplomatic immunity.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 10:59:31 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces review
On 28 Nov 2000, at 12:18, Tod Glenn wrote:
> > Armored:
> > Zipper Heads (They wear thier Berets one size too small and it looks
> > zippered on - and something about head trauma from hatches)
>
> Tread Heads
>
> Interservice rivalry is always fun too. The navy are squids, the marines
> jar heads. I recall a naval officer opining that a marine was "a highly
> trained idiot". A marine I passed this on to replied that sailors were "a
> lower life form that lives off marine waste".
>
> Since DB has adopted the regimental motto in GT:GF, we can probably assume
> an active inter-regimental rivalry. Some are undoubtably ancient and
> famous.
Given how strong it could get between battalions (which have their own stable
belts, etc) and how things could go in the British Army it could get pretty
fierce, too.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 14:05:44 -0800
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: The Regina Tattler
Slow day at works, so I'd thought I'd share some archhives from the
Regina Tattler for you amusement.
Tod
------------------------------------------------------------
Mutant Super-Vargr Shock Troops Engineered by SuSAG Assault
Laboratory!
While the local authorities call it an "industrial accident", and
SuSAG screams about an "outside attack" on their operations on Regina, the
Regina Tattler has obtained exclusive information on what really went on in
the wee hours of 013-1122. While Regina Up Port slumbers, SuSAG has been
conducting clandestine experiments of a disturbing nature, tampering with
genetic mutation in an attempt to create a race of mutant super-Vargrs to be
used in future megacorp wars.
Witnesses have given the Tattler consistent descriptions of what these
mutant Vargrs are like: taller and larger than a normal Vargr, with subtle
stripes for camouflage, and "fluffy" hyper-fur for protection against
temperature variations and hard vacuum. At least two of these creatures were
seen the night of the "incident" at SuSAG, both inside on level 2, and on
the outside of the station - without a vac suit!
Information from a source inside SuSAG itself informs the Tattler that
SuSAG's scientists have "bitten off more than they can chew" with this
project, but refuse to give it up. The problems began when they increased
the brain size of the constructs without allowing for an increase in the
space inside the thickened skull. This has resulted in constant pain for the
mutants, pain that eventually makes them dangerously unstable.
What other experiments has SuSAG been up to? Is it possible that the
luminous creature spotted on level 19 is just another one of SuSAG's escaped
experiments?
Just how many of the mutant Vargrs got loose before the "accident"?
How many are still roaming the station?
And are they hungry?
- ----
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
- ----
Tod Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.travellerguns.com
http://www.solsec.org
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 13:13:17 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: December fun shoot
In mail you write:
> Sam wrote:
>> Now despite popular image, New York is a fun place. According
>> to our anti-militia laws, drilling is only prohibited for people
>> employing guns, rather specifically defined as our current
>> projectile type weapons. Any Travellers wandering through and
>> wanting to get in some laser rifle practice are perfectly safe
>> until the laws are revised.
>
> I seem to remember something called "Metal Storm" (invented by an
> Australian). Does that count? Could be a fun toy!
Alas, it uses "gunpowder" to propel projectiles. So it's a "firearm".
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 13:17:00 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: December fun shoot
In mail you write:
> If you defined a firearm as a minimum muzzle energy of xxxx Joules
> and/or capable of making a hole in a standard type of blackened
> cardboard yyy mm thick such that a light of zzz brightness can be seen
> through the hole by the naked eye, that should cover most
> eventualities...
Most lawmakers (and judges) aren't "technical" enough to *understand*
that definition, much less come up with it.
Second, most of these laws specifically *exempt* muzzleloading weapons.
Third, you can make a weapon that doesn't fit the definition but that
can still severely injure or kill a person. Mostly by not making a hole
in the cardboard (for one example, think taser souped up to lethal
levels).
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 13:24:57 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: IHTFP
In mail you write:
> Of course, I used to have a photo of me taken in Honduras, standing in
> front of a wall where, god as my witness, "Yankee Go Home" was painted.
OBTrav(silly):
A colony descended from Zulus, where they scrawl "Impy go home!" on
walls. :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 13:26:19 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: IHTFP
In mail you write:
> On Tue, 28 Nov 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>
>> At 09:05 PM 11/27/2000 EST, you wrote:
>>
>> >> I like the way he handled IHTFP.
>>
>> >We chose to be subtle. We did not, for example, inlcude FTA either.
>>
>> And I have gotten more feedback from veterans over that one line than
>> anything else in the book.
>>
> What do these acronyms stand for? I've never been in the military. The
> closest I've ever gotten to being in the military has been being in bed
> with someone in it.
IHTFP: I Hate This F???ing Place (true meaning)
I Have Truly Found Paradise (when the nice officer asks you what
it means)
FTA: F??? The Army
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 14:30:53 -0800
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: December fun shoot
> Most lawmakers (and judges) aren't "technical" enough to *understand*
> that definition, much less come up with it.
If your 6 year old can understand the law, you haven't written it properly.
>
> Second, most of these laws specifically *exempt* muzzleloading weapons.
Federal law exempts weapons that don't fire fixed ammunition, thus cap and
ball revolvers are also excluded. Note, these are not firearms under
federal law, but the states can enact more restrictive definitions. IIRC,
Mass. regulates bb guns as firearms.
>
> Third, you can make a weapon that doesn't fit the definition but that
> can still severely injure or kill a person. Mostly by not making a hole
> in the cardboard (for one example, think taser souped up to lethal
> levels).
Try to ban a weapon by legal definition, and someone will figure a loophole.
The 'assault rifle ban' attempted to eleiminate said weapons be descibing
model names and features. The Colt AR-15 is banned. Colt produces an
identical gun called the Colt Sporter. It lake a flash suppressor and
bayonet lug, and hence is legal. In all other repects, it is the same
weapon as the AR-15.
ObTrav: Characters may be able to skirt local law levels by carefully
choosing there equipment.
"This is not a shotgun. This is a 18mm shark killer. My client is an avid
scuba diver"
Tod
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 17:30:06 -0500
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces review Interservice Slights
Pelicans, U.S. naval officers
Sea Going Bell Hops, U.S. Marines in their dress blues
Zoomies, U.S. Air Force Fighter Pilots also Air Force Cadets
Canon Cockers, U.S. Army Field Arty
Duck Hunters, U.S. Army ADA
Snake Eaters, U.S. Army SF/Rangers
Ring Knocker, a graduate of any of the U.S. Military Academies
Wobblie One, U.S. Army Warrent Officer WO-1 usually applied to one who is a
helicopter pilot
Chopper Jock, Jet Jock, a military helicopter or jet pilot respectively.
How about some Traveller designations in the same vein?
Dan
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3338
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3339
Date: | 11/28/00 7:36:05 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Tuesday, November 28 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3339
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Hex grid justification
RE: Safari ship...
Re: Accountants Everywhere (was Re: Hours in the Day)
RE: Accountants Everywhere (was Re: Hours in the Day)
Re: Ground Forces review
RE: fifth frontier war
Re: December fun shoot
re: Striker at DunDraCon!
Re: Say What?
Re: Accountants Everywhere (was Re: Hours in the Day)
RE: Striker at DunDraCon!
Re: IHTFP
Re: The Regina Tattler
Re: Safari ship...
Re: Ground Forces review
Re: IHTFP
Re: The Regina Tattler
Re: December fun shoot
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3338
Re: Striker at DunDraCon!
Re: Jodies (Imperial, Zhodani and others)
RE: Safari ship...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 09:59:02 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Hex grid justification
On Tue, Nov 28, 2000 at 10:37:13AM -0800, Gerry Harris wrote:
> Whereas your justification of the hex grid system is interesting, I've
> got a problem with your contention that while there are numerous stars
> per hex, only one star is strategically important enough to be listed.
What strategic importance would a star without planets, asteroids, or
cometary cloud, have?
> could set up secret logistics bases (bypassing the main system
> altogether, and probably undetected by enemy powers); five separate
> solar systems wherein resources can be tapped;
What resources? Possibly solar power.
> five separate solar systems wherein pirates could hide undetected
> and unmolested; five separate solar systems which could house
> dissidents, rebels or alien races.
Five systems where there is no hydrogen, rock, metals, oxygen, or
anywhere to grow food unless you bring the materials to build it
yourself. Basically, five systems no better than interstellar space.
> Conversely, the Imperium would have trouble maintaining supply lines
> if Wolfe's forces could strike from any of a number of systems
> *within the same hex* and then retire.
What stopped him from setting up bases in interstellar space?
Last I looked, sensors would have no chance at picking up a fleet 0.03
parsecs away, even without any emission masking. Even if they could
be detected from that distance, it would take between a month and 2
years for the radiation to arrive at lightspeed. That gives 1000
locations per hex to strike from, even if there are no other stars --
and even if space is really only 2-dimensional.
So as far as I can tell, it looks like it is *already* very easy to
hide, and positing a few useless stars doesn't change that.
I've been warned, but I'll do it anyway: IMTU, pirates can easily hide
bases in interstellar space. Typically they have fusion power,
indefinite recycling, and can produce their own food. Essentially
they are not much different from a small colony on a hostile planet,
only without the planet. :^)
(I'm tempted to say that they are in an excellent position to ramp up
NAFAL jump-missiles at people who cross them)
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 18:02:34 -0500
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com>
Subject: RE: Safari ship...
I'm probably crazy but I would swear that I saw somewhere that the Safari
ship came in variants that included a yacht version and a scout ship
version. Not sure where I saw it and I can't find a reference.
Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Ian Ferguson
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 2:46 PM
To: traveller@ient.com
Subject: Safari ship...
Michael Cessna writes:
>Hi All,
Hi Michael, welcome to the list.
>This is my first post to the list, so I apologize
>if someone has brought this up before. I just got a
>copy of FFE's CT: The Classic Adventures, and saw
>'Safari Ship' for the first time. Does it strike
>anyone else that this would make a _much_ better scout
>ship than the 'Courier'?
>Just a thought......
I suspect that the type S Scout/Courier is widely
used because of its low price. It also allows the
Scout service to get by with one standard design
as both scout and courier. One more thing: IIRC
the Safari Ship only makes 1 G maneuver. The
extra G that the type S has may be handy when
fleeing danger, taking off of large worlds, chasing
smugglers, moving around while exploring a
system, etc.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 16:10:36 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Accountants Everywhere (was Re: Hours in the Day)
From: Paul Drye <p_drye@hotmail.com>
>The obvious parallel would be British companies invested in Australia and
>New Zealand last century. How did *they* handle the travel times from
>distant holdings? Unfortunately, I don't know, so I throw the question open
>to anyone who has an idea....
>
>I'm going to pass this on to my accountant friend, see if she knows, or
>knows someone who knows.
>
>Cheers,
>Paul Drye
Paul,
One would have to assume they opened up offices in Australia & New
Zealand, instead of shipping the work back to Brittan.
So IMTU, they do the same thing.
I bid you peace.
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"
"I don't need Romance. I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
USS Excaliber.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 18:28:44 -0500
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com>
Subject: RE: Accountants Everywhere (was Re: Hours in the Day)
From: Paul Drye <p_drye@hotmail.com>
>The obvious parallel would be British companies invested in Australia and
>New Zealand last century. How did *they* handle the travel times from
>distant holdings? Unfortunately, I don't know, so I throw the question open
>to anyone who has an idea....
>
>I'm going to pass this on to my accountant friend, see if she knows, or
>knows someone who knows.
>
>Cheers,
>Paul Drye
I suspected that they did the accounting locally and then shipped profits
(or products) back to the home office. These were primarily "colonial"
endeavors, which meant that they were in existence primarily for the purpose
of procuring value for the home office over the relative long term. This is
in contrast to modern companies where subsidies ***must*** make a profit
during the quarter or have to explain in detail to the suits back home
(either in person or by phone or email.)
This is actually fairly well explained in canon. Megacorp district managers
are said to be very independent, the man on the spot and all that. I would
expect that thousand year old Megacorps don't particularly think in the
fiscal quarter mentality of twentieth century commerce. I expect for the
same reason the Imperial stock market, if there is one, would be total
unlike any stock market ever seen to the present day. You just don't have
large trading volumes when it takes seven months to get news from a
subsidiary. People buy stocks to get dividends. Or rather hold stock to get
dividends (like the noble families.) A nineteen eighties style corporate
raider might take them completely by surprise, at first. But (s)he might
have major problems trying to launder all that skimmed wealth or transport
it off world, since it would have to go as bales of cash.
Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 15:30:38 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces review
>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
>Some of the Finnish jargon, with translations:
Kiittos! Nauran paljon tässä!
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 15:30:42 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: fifth frontier war
>From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
>I understand what you are saying but I don't *think* that was what the
author intended. My >interpretarion of the author's *intent* was to
say that refuelling a tanker squadron from
>itself or another tanker squadron means refilling its jump tanks, not
its cargo tanks. Thus >it can jump again but it can't refuel other
squadrons again (otherwise you would have a
>perpetual fuel source).
The first place to look to determine intent is the text used by the author.
The text is quite plain. It is not total nonsense, nor self-contradictory.
Therefore, absent errata or a revision, it governs.
I do agree with you that the plain text rule is not the best way to handle
the issue of tanker refuelling. Had I been designing the game, I would have
gone the way you have described. If you and I ever play this game against
each other, we would no doubt agree to do so. I have, however, developed a
dislike for house rules and rules interpretations that directly contradict
the text that is almost as fervent as that of Kristian Miller. For this
reason, I stand by my reading of that rule.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 15:30:44 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: December fun shoot
>From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com>
><No organization, society, club, post, order, league or other combination
of
>persons, or civil group, or any members thereof, are authorized to assume
>any semblance of military organization or character by bearing or
possessing
>rifles, pistols, sabres, clubs, or military weapons of any kind, or wearing
>a military uniform of any kind. >
What do your paintball players do? It's not the weapons, which would
probably pass muster under the statute, but the camouflage uniforms popular
with participants.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 15:39:01 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: re: Striker at DunDraCon!
>From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com>
>I have signed up to run a Striker game at DunDraCon
>(http://www.dundracon.com) this February. The scenario will be a variant of
>the TL 5 Heya scenario that we played at the San Jose Traveller meeting in
>November. I plan to blow some money on GeoHex terrain, so it should look
>good as well as be fun.
Some vicious little red tanks bearing sharks' mouths and tigers' stripes may
appear. I'll have to rework the designs. A lot.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 18:49:53 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Say What?
> IHTFP: I Hate This F???ing Place (true meaning)
> I Have Truly Found Paradise (when the nice officer asks you what
> it means)
>
> FTA: F??? The Army
The nice officer probably already knows what it means (I was told by Captain
Marc W Miller, US Army retired) -- the nice NCO definitely does.
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 10:55:40 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Accountants Everywhere (was Re: Hours in the Day)
On Tue, Nov 28, 2000 at 06:28:44PM -0500, Terry Carlino wrote:
> People buy stocks to get dividends. Or rather hold stock to get
> dividends (like the noble families.) A nineteen eighties style
> corporate raider might take them completely by surprise, at first.
I expect the major shareholders would be quite reluctant to cooperate
with such a raider. They can't buy or sell stock (or variants
thereof) without someone else to trade with.
If major investors do a detailed financial examination along with
computer projections and historical analysis conducted with tech F
resources and hundreds to thousands of years of previous market
experience to draw on, they might find one or the other rather
difficult to achieve if it looks at all possible that they might be
doing a quick money-grab. I understand the Imperium is rather
conservative...
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 16:00:40 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: Striker at DunDraCon!
I may have to head out there, for the day at least! :)
Jess
"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Glenn M. Goffin
> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 3:39 PM
> To: Traveller-Digest
> Subject: re: Striker at DunDraCon!
>
>
> >From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com>
>
> >I have signed up to run a Striker game at DunDraCon
> >(http://www.dundracon.com) this February. The scenario will be a
> variant of
> >the TL 5 Heya scenario that we played at the San Jose Traveller
> meeting in
> >November. I plan to blow some money on GeoHex terrain, so it should look
> >good as well as be fun.
>
> Some vicious little red tanks bearing sharks' mouths and tigers'
> stripes may
> appear. I'll have to rework the designs. A lot.
>
> --Glenn
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 08:48:38 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: IHTFP
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> OBTrav(silly):
>
> A colony descended from Zulus, where they scrawl "Impy go home!" on
> walls. :-)
Oh dear. You realise I actually had a cup of coffee in my hand.
Fortunately, my dexterity was equal to the task.
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 08:54:02 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: The Regina Tattler
> From: "Tod Glenn"
> The problems began when they increased the brain size of the constructs
> without allowing for an increase in the space inside the thickened skull.
> This has resulted in constant pain for the mutants, pain that eventually
> makes them dangerously unstable.
Ah. Here is the clue necessary to indicate that this story is less than
reliable. Of course, the fact that it was published in the Regina
Tattler in the first place is also a bit of a giveaway.
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 09:14:18 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Safari ship...
> From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)
> >From: Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>
> >I just got a copy of FFE's CT: The Classic Adventures, and saw
> >'Safari Ship' for the first time. Does it strike
> >anyone else that this would make a _much_ better scout
> >ship than the 'Courier'?
>
> Well, it's got the pool and the wet bar as standard, right?
And the Suleiman concentrates that "old sock" smell into an almost solid
form.
From the point of their crews, clearly, yes, the Safari Ship is _much_
preferable. : )
Sadly, however, it is almost much more expensive, and the 1G factor is a
serious disadvantage....
Of course, for a lot of missions the Scout/Courier simply isn't adequate,
and larger vessels are required. For example, anyone who orders a
Scout/Courier to carry out a first contact mission should be held
personally responsible if the ship is lost...
The Leviathan from Adventure 4 can be tweaked into a decent Exploration
Cruiser, complete with subordinate Scout/Couriers. It's not how I would
design such a vessel, but it's near enough for off-the-shelf procurement.
The Science Ship would be useful for the Scouts too. Use it as a detailed
survey vessel.
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 01:57:02 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces review
Brandon Cope wrote:
> Which is basically the same as the one in Roleplayer 30, available on the SJ Games site.
Thanks for that information. In case anyone is too tired to look for it,
here is the URL:
http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/Roleplayer/Roleplayer30/MassCombat-Land.html
So I have no need of the system in GURPS Companion II if I use this one?
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 20:20:35 -0500
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: IHTFP
Leonard Erickson wrote:
>OBTrav(silly):
>
>A colony descended from Zulus, where they scrawl "Impy go home!" on
>walls. :-)
God DAMN it! Leonard scores a nasal spray on me -- yes, Mr.
Bottomless Well of Dry Facts has nailed M. Keyboard Killer '98.
Well, actually, it was dental spray -- ever seen eggnog fly out
through clenched teeth? -- and I cleverly turned my head, so it all
went on the floor instead of the computer. But still. Congrats,
thou villain.
Kenji
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 20:26:39 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: The Regina Tattler
Cool.
(shamless plug mode)
Hey! Just post these at the end of every message and pretty soon Mikko will
be telling you to quit it but the rest of the TML (well, a few anyway) will
say keep going and you'll have to get your own account at eGroups and turn
it into a weekly publication. Take it from someone who knows (This is what
happened to "The Chronicles of T.C. Harrison).
(/SPM)
- -J. Jensen
> Slow day at works, so I'd thought I'd share some archhives from the
> Regina Tattler for you amusement.
>
> Tod
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Mutant Super-Vargr Shock Troops Engineered by SuSAG Assault
> Laboratory!
> While the local authorities call it an "industrial accident", and
> SuSAG screams about an "outside attack" on their operations on Regina, the
> Regina Tattler has obtained exclusive information on what really went on
in
> the wee hours of 013-1122. While Regina Up Port slumbers, SuSAG has been
> conducting clandestine experiments of a disturbing nature, tampering with
> genetic mutation in an attempt to create a race of mutant super-Vargrs to
be
> used in future megacorp wars.
>
> Witnesses have given the Tattler consistent descriptions of what
these
> mutant Vargrs are like: taller and larger than a normal Vargr, with subtle
> stripes for camouflage, and "fluffy" hyper-fur for protection against
> temperature variations and hard vacuum. At least two of these creatures
were
> seen the night of the "incident" at SuSAG, both inside on level 2, and on
> the outside of the station - without a vac suit!
>
>
> Information from a source inside SuSAG itself informs the Tattler
that
> SuSAG's scientists have "bitten off more than they can chew" with this
> project, but refuse to give it up. The problems began when they increased
> the brain size of the constructs without allowing for an increase in the
> space inside the thickened skull. This has resulted in constant pain for
the
> mutants, pain that eventually makes them dangerously unstable.
>
> What other experiments has SuSAG been up to? Is it possible that the
> luminous creature spotted on level 19 is just another one of SuSAG's
escaped
> experiments?
>
>
> Just how many of the mutant Vargrs got loose before the "accident"?
> How many are still roaming the station?
>
>
> And are they hungry?
>
>
> ----
> When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
> ----
> Tod Glenn
> webmaster@travellercentral.com
> http://www.travellercentral.com
> http://www.travellerguns.com
> http://www.solsec.org
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 21:55:32 -0500
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: December fun shoot
Just to note, I didn't "write", I reported. The NH state legislature wrote.
Any objections to form or language should be taken up with them.
Sam
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 22:04:37 -0500
From: "Jonathan 'Caraig' McDermott" <caraig@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3338
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
>Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 17:30:06 -0500
>From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net>
>Subject: Re: Ground Forces review Interservice Slights
...
>How about some Traveller designations in the same vein?
>
>Dan
>
>------------------------------
Tin Cans/Ration Cans: Imperial Marine Armored Infantry
That's the obvious one. ;)
Boojums: Field meson artillery
Hoverjocks: Gravtank crew? Alternatively:
Luftpanzers (though Lufthansha is probably defunct by then, and
nobody would get the joke)
Velocislugs - They go fast, but close to the ground....
~
Two rationcans in a foxhole, peering over the edge at the enemy position,
PGMPs ready. One glances behind them, then does a
double-take. "Ack! Jerri, duck! Luftpanzers!" His buddy turns and has
barely enough time to hug dirt with his teammate before two Trepidas roar
overhead with just centimeters to spare. "Damn velocislugs," one of them
mutters.
~
Eightlegs: Scouts (for that wierd multi-legged dino on their insignia)
I kinda found this a bit difficult. I would imagine that there would be an
incredible mish-mash of nicknames and terms for them, from all accross the
Imperium.
Cheers
- - ---
==============================================================
Jonathan McDermott, CNE/MCSE NOSPAMcaraig@mindspring.com
System Administrator http:\\caraig.home.mindspring.com
- - ------------------------------------------------------------
Anubis@SpatialWastes -*- Caraig,Dermott@FurryMUCK
IMTU tc+ tn t4 ge++ -3i+ c+(**) jt pi+ va+ dr+ pr+ zh+() so@
- - ------------------------------------------------------------
Current PGPKey Fingerprint (19 November 2000)
04BA 4239 C4CF 030D 11DC 8436 A903 8F4A 91BE 5D05
- - ------------------------------------------------------------
"Never trust a computer you can't throw out a window."
-Steve Wozniak
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com>
iQA/AwUBOiRyRKkDj0qRvl0FEQJQIQCg963U/GfURSX81BHj2n0A4Ysu4jYAoIga
VSUN2CKeOBun3xpkeZ89w3zD
=QPIk
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 19:26:23 -0800
From: "Jeffrey Yin" <jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu>
Subject: Re: Striker at DunDraCon!
Not sure if I'll be able to play, but I too am attending Dundra Con. I'll
make sure to swing by.
Jeffrey Yin
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 4:00 PM
Subject: RE: Striker at DunDraCon!
> I may have to head out there, for the day at least! :)
> Jess
>
> "They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
> deserve neither liberty nor safety."
> -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> > [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Glenn M. Goffin
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 3:39 PM
> > To: Traveller-Digest
> > Subject: re: Striker at DunDraCon!
> >
> >
> > >From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com>
> >
> > >I have signed up to run a Striker game at DunDraCon
> > >(http://www.dundracon.com) this February. The scenario will be a
> > variant of
> > >the TL 5 Heya scenario that we played at the San Jose Traveller
> > meeting in
> > >November. I plan to blow some money on GeoHex terrain, so it should
look
> > >good as well as be fun.
> >
> > Some vicious little red tanks bearing sharks' mouths and tigers'
> > stripes may
> > appear. I'll have to rework the designs. A lot.
> >
> > --Glenn
> >
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 19:24:31
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Jodies (Imperial, Zhodani and others)
At 12:09 PM 11/28/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>Anyone tried there hand at writing some jodies? I mention this as I was
>recently reminded of one of my personal favorites. If anyone knows the
>complete form, please let men know.
>What do those Imperial troops sing during their morning run?
GF, page 21.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 22:31:03 -0500
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com>
Subject: RE: Safari ship...
Tre unclassy to answer your own question but Adventure ten, where the Safari
ship appeared listed a couple of variants, one of which was a Scout
survey/exploration vessel. Someone on one of the SJG boards mentioned it in
a post.
Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Alan Bradley
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 6:14 PM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: Re: Safari ship...
> From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)
> >From: Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>
> >I just got a copy of FFE's CT: The Classic Adventures, and saw
> >'Safari Ship' for the first time. Does it strike
> >anyone else that this would make a _much_ better scout
> >ship than the 'Courier'?
>
> Well, it's got the pool and the wet bar as standard, right?
And the Suleiman concentrates that "old sock" smell into an almost solid
form.
From the point of their crews, clearly, yes, the Safari Ship is _much_
preferable. : )
Sadly, however, it is almost much more expensive, and the 1G factor is a
serious disadvantage....
Of course, for a lot of missions the Scout/Courier simply isn't adequate,
and larger vessels are required. For example, anyone who orders a
Scout/Courier to carry out a first contact mission should be held
personally responsible if the ship is lost...
The Leviathan from Adventure 4 can be tweaked into a decent Exploration
Cruiser, complete with subordinate Scout/Couriers. It's not how I would
design such a vessel, but it's near enough for off-the-shelf procurement.
The Science Ship would be useful for the Scouts too. Use it as a detailed
survey vessel.
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3339
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3340
Date: | 11/29/00 5:08:08 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Wednesday, November 29 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3340
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Hours in the Day
Re: Accountants Everywhere (was Re: Hours in the Day)
Who's who
Re: Ground Forces review
Re: Ground Forces review Interservice Slights
Re: Ground Forces review
Re: Striker at DunDraCon!
Re: Ground Forces review
Re: fifth frontier war
Re: Striker at DunDraCon!
RE: Safari ship...
Re: Planetary mechanics questions
RE: Safari ship...
re: Hex coordinates, help needed
Re: Trade Volume Heresy
Re: Hex grid justification
Re: Hex grid justification
RE: Jodies (Imperial, Zhodani and others)
RE: December fun shoot
RE: Jodies (Imperial, Zhodani and others)
RE: December fun shoot
RE: Jodies (Imperial, Zhodani and others)
RE: December fun shoot
RE: December fun shoot
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 21:54:52 -0600
From: Charles R Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Hours in the Day
Leonard Erickson wrote:
>So whatever planet you are on, the length of a shift has to be
>something that goes into the length of the day *evenly*. So on a planet
>with a "20 hour" day, your choices are:
>
>shifts length of shift
>- ------ ---------------
>2 10:00:00
>3 6:40:00
>4 5:00:00
>5 4:00:00
>
I would suggest a slight overlap in the shifts, for communicating
conditions, giving orders, and other such information needed by the new
shift without stopping production. (I have seen 15 minutes to 30 minutes
overlap in industry)
2 10:15:00 15 minutes overlap
3 7:00:00 20 minutes (this one seems likely)
4 5:15:00 15 minutes
5 4:15:00 15 minutes
>
>
>> You would probably have happier workers on a 28-hour planet with
>> 10-hour work days since they get 10 hours for other stuff instead of
>> just 8. You are also better off because you get 25% more worker time
>> per day, and the days are only 17% longer so you have a net 8%
>> productivity increase over a 24-hour world.
>
>But you'd make running multiple shifts a *major* pain. 2 10 hour shifts
>and one 8 hour shift is going make it really hard to get folks for the
>"short" shift (easily observed anywhere on earth that has a "short
>shift" as part of a schedule). And be a bookkeeping hassle as well.
>
>More likely divisions:
>
>shifts length
>- ------ --------
>2 14:00:00 (unlikely!)
>3 09:20:00
>4 07:00:00
>5 05:36:00
>6 04:40:00
>7 04:00:00
2 14:15:00 15 min (unlikely, more than 12 hours
is very fatuging)
3 9:30:00 10 min (good candidate)
4 7:15:00 15 min (again a good candidate)
5 5:45:00 9 min
6 5:00:00 20 min
7 4:15:00 15 min
Charles H
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 23:50:05 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Accountants Everywhere (was Re: Hours in the Day)
> One would have to assume they opened up offices in Australia & New
>Zealand, instead of shipping the work back to Brittan.
> So IMTU, they do the same thing.
Yes, but this would only work so far. The head office needs to consolidate
the numbers, make Big Business Decisions and so on.
My friend has replied, and she says that we don't even need to go into the
past for parallels. One example she gives me (serial numbers filed off to
protect the innocent) is a subsidiary she deals with, located in the third
world, that hasn't given her any numbers to work with in a year.
She says that I'm operating under the common misconception that accounting
is just addition and subtraction. Apparently a very large part of what she
perceives as "accountancy" consists of methods for dealing with incomplete
and innaccurate information, assessing the risk in it, making business
decisions on it, and only true-ing up the results as better numbers become
available.
So it would appear that it's not completely out of line to have "Rhylanor,
Planet of Accountants" on the business cards....
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 23:44:21 -0500
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Who's who
http://spacevermin.homepage.com/Eclipse/CHARS/Lothar.html
http://spacevermin.homepage.com/Eclipse/CHARS/orderly.html
A pair of recently retired military types you may find knocking around the
Marches...
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Blend 'B', meanwhile, is a PROUD blend, defiant yet petulant...a blend
that grabs you, shakes you by the collar and cries, 'ACCEPT me, damn you,
or turn me away-BUT FOR GOD'S SAKE DON'T POLLUTE ME WITH NON-DAIRY
CREAMER!'" - Tripp Biscuit while coffee tasting.
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 00:22:29 -0600
From: Brandon Cope <copeab@elc.net>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces review
Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm wrote:
> Brandon Cope wrote:
> > Which is basically the same as the one in Roleplayer 30, available on the SJ Games site.
>
> Thanks for that information. In case anyone is too tired to look for it,
> here is the URL:
>
> http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/Roleplayer/Roleplayer30/MassCombat-Land.html
>
> So I have no need of the system in GURPS Companion II if I use this one?
There might have been a few minor changes, but I don't think there are
big differences between
the two.
Also worth noting, Book 4: Mercenary has a mass combat system (of sorts)
which could possibly
be adapted to GURPS. There is also a mass combat system in The World
Tamer's Handbook, though
this is a bit more specific to TNE.
Brandon
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 22:19:31 -0800
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces review Interservice Slights
Daniel Phelps wrote:
> Canon Cockers, U.S. Army Field Arty
I thought this one applied only to certain members of the TML. ;-)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 08:30:57 +0200 (EET)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces review
On Tue, 28 Nov 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> At 10:47 AM 11/28/2000 +0200, you wrote:
> >Some of the Finnish jargon, with translations:
> Oh, where were you when I was *writing* this book? :)
Probably not on the list. I lurked some time after joining, but from what
I know of publishing you wrote the book some time earlier. Sorry for not
being here when needed, I try to avoid that in the future.
As an aside, your book reminded me again that the rpg community is not
very large, even globally. I saw the book in a store, and paged through
it, and then I noticed that the author's name was familiar from TML.
I think it is good that game developers have contact with players. B-)
Hm, I have been lobbying designers of Traveller to be invited to Ropecon
for many years, with no success. Just as a warning, at least to LKW and
Marc. I could succeed after all the WoD and GW people have been here...
(Ropecon is, to my knowledge, the biggest non-commercial roleplaying
convention in the world. I can very well be wrong, though. B-) WWW pages
are at http://ropecon.roolipeli.net/ They are mainly in Finnish, but
there are English pages from previous years. )
- --
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 22:32:52 -0800
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
Subject: Re: Striker at DunDraCon!
Luther Martin wrote:
>
> I have signed up to run a Striker game at DunDraCon
> (http://www.dundracon.com) this February. The scenario will be a variant of
> the TL 5 Heya scenario that we played at the San Jose Traveller meeting in
Ack! All right!
I had considered doing the same, but for a higher tech level. Now,
maybe I'll still run my "signature" RPG game. What time did you sign up
for?
If Glenn shows up with his (redesigned) "vicious little red tanks," the
whole San Jose Traveller group will be at DunDraCon. I'm sure the rest
of the group could lend designs, support and terrain.
> November. I plan to blow some money on GeoHex terrain, so it should look
> good as well as be fun.
Hey! Our game looked good! (Has anyone else noticed how Luther as
become quite the miniature gamer?)
Kristian
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 08:33:50 +0200 (EET)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces review
On Tue, 28 Nov 2000, Rodney Basler wrote:
> >From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
> >Subject: Re: Ground Forces review
> >Could you tell names for different military jobs? Also, other military
> >jargon could be interesting, too. Interbranch disputes are very
> >interesting, as Finnish terms are quite derogatory.
> >Commo (What is this in English?)
> > Kelaperse ('reel-ass'. They carry reels of wire.)
> How's about "Spool Mule" as an English version? ...it rhymes and
> falls off the tongue a little better...
Thanks, this is a very good translation. "Spool" is a word I associate
with printers and queueing, not with actual physical spools.
This sounds better, yes.
- --
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 22:38:36 -0800
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
Subject: Re: fifth frontier war
"Glenn M. Goffin" wrote:
>
> >From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
>
> >I understand what you are saying but I don't *think* that was what the
> author intended. My >interpretarion of the author's *intent* was to
...
> The first place to look to determine intent is the text used by the author.
> The text is quite plain. It is not total nonsense, nor self-contradictory.
> Therefore, absent errata or a revision, it governs.
...
> each other, we would no doubt agree to do so. I have, however, developed a
> dislike for house rules and rules interpretations that directly contradict
> the text that is almost as fervent as that of Kristian Miller. For this
> reason, I stand by my reading of that rule.
That's high praise, I think. At least I'll take it that way. :-)
Kristian
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 22:49:38 -0800
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: Re: Striker at DunDraCon!
Kristian Miller wrote:
> Hey! Our game looked good! (Has anyone else noticed how Luther as
> become quite the miniature gamer?)
Hey, I've wasted more hours than most people have on miniatures. There was
Chainmail, Tractics, Space Marines, home-brew systems, and even Striker,
although I don't think that we got the Striker rules quite right back then.
I and the other students from the Jesuit schools trounced all opponents from
the Franciscan schools on a regular basis. Maybe it was their lack of an
elitist SOB attitude which affected their game play?
I even dodged a philosophy paper in college by playing several miniatures
games ("historical simulations") and describing the results! Since the grade
for the semester was almost entirely based on our project, that must qualify
as the easiest and most fun way to get an "A" that has ever been done.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 08:00:42 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Safari ship...
>
> This is my first post to the list, so I apologize
> if someone has brought this up before. I just got a
> copy of FFE's CT: The Classic Adventures, and saw
> 'Safari Ship' for the first time. Does it strike
> anyone else that this would make a _much_ better scout
> ship than the 'Courier'?
>
Not from the point of view of the Scout service admin...the Safari ship is
way more expensive than the Scout/courier and you gotta find some way from
stopping your scouts goofing off. :)
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 00:20:37 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Planetary mechanics questions
Bruce Macintosh wrote:
> If you can afford it, the new "Astrophysical Quantities"
> (fourth edition) is full of valuable astronomical facts.
ISBN?
- --
Evyn...
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he today that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so lowly,
This day shall enoble his rank.
Henry V - William Shakespeare
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 22:13:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Safari ship...
>>
Yep. That was in the original CT Adventure. I was
thinking that, if you were to delete the 20 dton
launch and turn that space into cargo, you could
squeeze btwn 30 and 40 dtons of space out of it.
Mike C
>>
- --- Terry Carlino <carlino@home.com> wrote:
> I'm probably crazy but I would swear that I saw
> somewhere that the Safari
> ship came in variants that included a yacht version
> and a scout ship
> version. Not sure where I saw it and I can't find a
> reference.
>
>
> Terry C
> All that is Gold does not glitter
> Not all who travel are lost
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of
> Ian Ferguson
> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 2:46 PM
> To: traveller@ient.com
> Subject: Safari ship...
>
> Michael Cessna writes:
> >Hi All,
>
> Hi Michael, welcome to the list.
>
> >This is my first post to the list, so I apologize
> >if someone has brought this up before. I just got a
> >copy of FFE's CT: The Classic Adventures, and saw
> >'Safari Ship' for the first time. Does it strike
> >anyone else that this would make a _much_ better
> scout
> >ship than the 'Courier'?
> >Just a thought......
>
> I suspect that the type S Scout/Courier is
> widely
> used because of its low price. It also
> allows the
> Scout service to get by with one standard
> design
> as both scout and courier. One more thing:
> IIRC
> the Safari Ship only makes 1 G maneuver.
> The
> extra G that the type S has may be handy
> when
> fleeing danger, taking off of large worlds,
> chasing
> smugglers, moving around while exploring a
> system, etc.
>
> Peez
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 21:57:50 +1100
From: "ab@rossmack.com" <ab@rossmack.com>
Subject: re: Hex coordinates, help needed
Have a look at this, it's set up for traditional traveller cartography
but it should adapt readily.
http://www.rossmack.com/ab/rpg/traveller/AstroHexDistance.asp
Regards.
- -AB
PS: If you want to discuss, send me an email - my TML browsing time is
limited at the moment and I'll probably miss any reply sent to the list.
PPS: I tried to send this a week ago but it got stuck on a server
somewhere. Apologies.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 05:59:20 -0500
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: Trade Volume Heresy
Jim MacLean responds:
[Chris, you're right, I don't currently subscribe to the TML. Feel free to
forward this if you think it's appropriate.]
Gentlesophonts,
I'd say to Mr. Little and others that they should use whatever trade model
makes
them happy. As Chris Thrash points out, the relationship in FT is based on
empirical observation and works quite well for Real World bi-lateral trade
predictions. A useful refinement to the model for handling trade between
worlds
of dramatically different size is to include an interaction term, so that
trade
depends on their relative economic size as well as absolute size. In reality,
this sort of refinement makes such a small difference in predictions that it
falls below the purposefully large granularity of the FT system.
Also, I didn't think it was worth the substantial additional complication of
adding it to FT. IMHO, the errataed cap on BTN for small WTN worlds works
fine
for those rare outliers.
Folks should use whatever system makes them happy,
but I think the one in FT has a lot going for it in terms of realism and
useability. I've generated trade stats by hand for many subsectors using
stock FT. It's time-consuming but do-able. Anyone with experience doing that
would not want to add any more complication than necessary. GT authors are
obliged not to assume that every reader can automate the rules, so they have
to actually be useable by hand. Folks who are set up to do it all
automatically
should feel free to add whatever computationally intensive bells and whistles
they desire. But quite frankly, off-the-wall results from the FT trade model
are as much the fault of Traveller's off-the-wall world generation system
as anything else.
As for the specific issue of the cost of shipping and the distance mod, the
biggest cost for a company of relying on off-world markets is not the cost
of shipping the goods, generally, but the cost of slow communication and all
the coordination problems that implies. When it takes weeks or months to
communicate with suppliers, the whole way a company does business is affected.
- ------------------
Jim MacLean
Economist, Traveller Fan
Co-Author GT: Far Trader
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 23:51:09 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Hex grid justification
In mail you write:
> On Tue, Nov 28, 2000 at 10:37:13AM -0800, Gerry Harris wrote:
>> Whereas your justification of the hex grid system is interesting, I've
>> got a problem with your contention that while there are numerous stars
>> per hex, only one star is strategically important enough to be listed.
>
> What strategic importance would a star without planets, asteroids, or
> cometary cloud, have?
It's *really* unlikely that the other systems would meet those
conditions. "Cometary clouds" are virtually certain.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 12:17:26 +0100
From: "Tage Borg" <tage@hem.passagen.se>
Subject: Re: Hex grid justification
> In mail you write:
>
> > On Tue, Nov 28, 2000 at 10:37:13AM -0800, Gerry Harris wrote:
> >> Whereas your justification of the hex grid system is interesting, I've
> >> got a problem with your contention that while there are numerous stars
> >> per hex, only one star is strategically important enough to be listed.
> >
> > What strategic importance would a star without planets, asteroids, or
> > cometary cloud, have?
>
> It's *really* unlikely that the other systems would meet those
> conditions. "Cometary clouds" are virtually certain.
Besides, just having a sun around is a good thing. You can put a space
station with solar energy arrays around the star and not have to worry about
energy supply, like you would have to in empty space. Flying in material,
supplies and fuel for visiting starships is not all that difficult.
/Tage
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 11:34:07 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Jodies (Imperial, Zhodani and others)
>
> What do those Imperial troops sing during their morning run?
>
Hmm,
'I don't know, but I been told
The Imperium is mighty old' ?
:)
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 11:36:19 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: December fun shoot
Rofl
Dean
>
> Meson pistols it is, then. :-)
>
> - Rob.
>
> Matt Bond wrote:
> >
>
> > If you defined a firearm as a minimum muzzle energy of xxxx Joules
> > and/or capable of making a hole in a standard type of blackened
> > cardboard yyy mm thick such that a light of zzz brightness
> can be seen
> > through the hole by the naked eye, that should cover most
> > eventualities...
>
> --
> Rob Myers - http://www.robmyers.org/ H2G2 - http://www.h2g2.com/
> MacOS wonderfulness for The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy Game.
> "Smash Global Capitalism! Spend less money!"
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 11:51:18 +0000
From: Rob Myers <robm@h2g2.com>
Subject: RE: Jodies (Imperial, Zhodani and others)
Meanwhile, across the lines, they can hear the Zho's singing:
"I don't know but I mind-read,
Emperor Strephon's no good in bed."
- - Rob.
On Wednesday, November 29, 2000, at 11:34 AM, Jones, Dean wrote:
> 'I don't know, but I been told
> The Imperium is mighty old' ?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 12:10:02 -0000
From: Matt Bond <MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RE: December fun shoot
> > > If you defined a firearm as a minimum muzzle energy of xxxx Joules
> > > and/or capable of making a hole in a standard type of blackened
> > > cardboard yyy mm thick such that a light of zzz brightness
> > can be seen
> > > through the hole by the naked eye, that should cover most
> > > eventualities...
> >
> > Meson pistols it is, then. :-)
> >
> > - Rob.
>
> Rofl
>
> Dean
:)
But note the 'or' in the 'and/or' bit about making a hole...
You just get 'em on the muzzle energy emission...
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 12:08:30 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Jodies (Imperial, Zhodani and others)
Splort! Good one
K'Kree:
I've been Spinward, and I've been back,
And I still like killin' filthy G'Naak.
Dean
>
> Meanwhile, across the lines, they can hear the Zho's singing:
>
> "I don't know but I mind-read,
> Emperor Strephon's no good in bed."
>
> - Rob.
>
> On Wednesday, November 29, 2000, at 11:34 AM, Jones, Dean wrote:
>
> > 'I don't know, but I been told
> > The Imperium is mighty old' ?
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 12:30:44 +0000
From: Rob Myers <robm@h2g2.com>
Subject: RE: December fun shoot
OFFICES OF MESON INDUSTRIES.
LEGAL DEPT.
Sir,
with reference to your Email of (Solomani Calendar) 2000.11.29, I have been asked to correct a misconception in your representation of the legal status of Meson weapons for civilian personal use.
Whilst mesons are released from a meson weapon at relativistic speed and are capable of delivering high energy yields to targets, there are three properties of meson weapons that do indeed allow them to be used within the confines of New York and indeed most American states.
Firstly, meson weapons have no muzzle. The mesons do not need an opening to leave their acceleration chamber, as they have no mass with which to interact with its walls. Therefore the velocity of the mesons cannot be measured at the muzzle.
Secondly, due to having no muzzle opening, meson weapons have no caliber and do not fall foul of legislation that limits personal firearms based on this.
Thirdly, due to having no mass at the point of release, the mesons have no potential kinetic energy. For standard ballistics tests, our researchers simply set the decay time of the mesons such that they deliver their energy *behind* the target.
To recap, meson weapons have no caliber or muzzle velocity to legislate against, and can simply bypass standard ballistics tests as mandated by law. I have had many years of pleasure from my own meson weapons, and recently gave my mother a meson cannon as a birthday present. Our products are available in a range of colors and scientific rationales to suit every lifestyle, and I hope we will be able to count on your custom now this misunderstanding has been cleared up.
Yours Faithfully,
Meson industries Legal Dept.
On Wednesday, November 29, 2000, at 12:10 PM, Matt Bond wrote:
> > > > If you defined a firearm as a minimum muzzle energy of xxxx Joules
> > > > and/or capable of making a hole in a standard type of blackened
> > > > cardboard yyy mm thick such that a light of zzz brightness
> > > can be seen
> > > > through the hole by the naked eye, that should cover most
> > > > eventualities...
> > >
> > > Meson pistols it is, then. :-)
> > >
> > > - Rob.
> >
> > Rofl
> >
> > Dean
>
> :)
>
> But note the 'or' in the 'and/or' bit about making a hole...
>
> You just get 'em on the muzzle energy emission...
>
> Matt
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 12:37:46 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: December fun shoot
LOL. I especially like '[I] recently gave my mother a meson cannon as a
birthday present'
DEan
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Myers [mailto:robm@h2g2.com]
> Sent: 29 November 2000 12:31
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: RE: December fun shoot
>
>
> OFFICES OF MESON INDUSTRIES.
> LEGAL DEPT.
>
> Sir,
<snip>
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3340
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3341
Date: | 11/29/00 2:36:49 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Wednesday, November 29 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3341
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
RE: December fun shoot
Re: shadows questions
RE: shadows questions
RE: shadows questions
RE: fifth frontier war
RE: Safari ship...
RE: The Regina Tattler
Re: Paramilitary (was Re: December fun shoot)
Re: Jodies (Imperial, Zhodani and others)
Re: Accountants Everywhere
Re: Ground Forces review
Re: Hex grid justification
Re: Striker at DunDraCon!
RE: Jodies (Imperial, Zhodani and others)
Re: cybernetics
Re: Hex grid justification
Re: Paramilitary (was Re: December fun shoot)
Re: Hex grid justification
Re: The Regina Tattler
Re: Trade Volume Heresy
Re: Hex grid justification
Re: Hex grid justification
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 12:44:33 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: December fun shoot
Rob Myers wrote:
> OFFICES OF MESON INDUSTRIES.
> LEGAL DEPT.
<snip>
Okay, I'm changing all
"meson guns are unaffected by armour"
text in my rulebooks to read
"meson guns are unaffected by armour or legislation".
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 13:00:52 +0000
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: Re: shadows questions
Qstor@aol.com wrote:
>Weren't these pyramids revealed to be artifacts of the >Hhkar? I remember
reading a >pre-print of Mike Mikesh's >article on that race, and recall the
tie-in to them.
>Was this in JTAS?
If memory serves (the bibliography's not handy) this was Challenge.
Somewhere in the 50s?
Hang on, back at my desk now, the Hhkar! should be in the index....
...yes, Challenge 52.
Without checking in the attic tonight though I can't tell you if it
mentions _Shadows_. However, this is the kind of thing I tried to look out
for and I really don't recall it.
tc
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 13:03:38 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: shadows questions
>
>
> If memory serves (the bibliography's not handy) this was Challenge.
> Somewhere in the 50s?
>
>
> Hang on, back at my desk now, the Hhkar! should be in the index....
>
>
> ...yes, Challenge 52.
>
> Without checking in the attic tonight though I can't tell you if it
> mentions _Shadows_. However, this is the kind of thing I
> tried to look out
> for and I really don't recall it.
>
It doesn't. I was reading Challenge 52 last night.
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 08:26:10 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: shadows questions
>It doesn't. I was reading Challenge 52 last night.
Hmph. I do remember something to the effect that the Hhkar were responsible
for a lot of the pyramids seen to coreward. Did he do a follow-up adventure
to his Hhkar article using them? It's entirely possible I saw it in
something of his that was never published, in which case I'll just hush my
mouth.
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 13:28:19 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: fifth frontier war
Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> The first place to look to determine intent is the text used by
> the author. The text is quite plain. It is not total nonsense,
> nor self-contradictory. Therefore, absent errata or a revision,
> it governs.
Who wrote 5FW (I don't have it to hand)? If its someone on the
list we could get the definitive answer.
> I do agree with you that the plain text rule is not the best way
> to handle the issue of tanker refuelling. Had I been designing
> the game, I would have gone the way you have described.
I'm now wondering if it should be a *loaded* tanker squadron
takes 6 'squadrons' worth of fuel to refuel and an *unloaded*
tanker squadron takes just 1 'squadron' worth of fuel to refuel.
That would make sense in CT and no longer be a direct
contradiction of the 5FW text (merely an amendment).
> I have, however, developed a dislike for house rules and rules
> interpretations that directly contradict the text that is almost
> as fervent as that of Kristian Miller.
There are two things from my early gaming days that have led me
to the opposite position.
(1) In the game RISK Alaska connects (offboard) to one of two
different asia territories. Which one depends on which
edition you have. It doesn't really matter which provided
all players know which version is in play at the start of the
game.
(2) I used to play a lot of FASA's Star Trek RPG. Their products
were so full of errors and ommisions that my group's ST GM
had to spend a week penciling in corrections in the margins
everytime he bought something.
So, like a suit "off the peg" needs alterations before it'll fit
properly, so too will published game material need alterations
and clarifications. (Just as long as its clear up front what
alterations have been made.)
Why do you dislike "house rules and rules interpretations that
directly contradict the text" so strongly?
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 08:30:08 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: RE: Safari ship...
>Tre unclassy to answer your own question but Adventure >ten, where the Safari ship appeared listed a couple of >variants, one of which was a Scout survey/exploration >vessel. Someone on one of the SJG boards mentioned it >in a post.
of course it leaves out the wet bar and pool ;) The Imperium won't pay for such excesses :)
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 14:00:24 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: The Regina Tattler
Tod Glenn wrote:
> Mutant Super-Vargr Shock Troops Engineered by SuSAG Assault
> Laboratory!
<swipe!> Filed for future use ... though the "fluffy hyper-fur"
makes it sound like something out of one of the weirder
Manga/Anime titles.
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 09:33:45 -0500
From: Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>
Subject: Re: Paramilitary (was Re: December fun shoot)
"Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
>
> Ouch. So much for that infamous paramiltary organization: the cub scouts.
In a fantastic fit or irony, the university where I went distributed
anti-cult pamphlets to all the student society offices in an attempt
to raise the awareness and danger of "cults on campus".
Unfortunately, almost every single one of the attributes that it said
to watch out for could have been perfectly applied to the Engineering
Society where I stood reading the pamphlet...
From some website which more or less sums up the same points:
THE WARNING SIGNS:
1.The spiritual group claims to have received special instructions from
one or more "messengers from the sky."
Our engineering mascot was a gigantic RIGID-brand pipe wrench...
2.The spiritual group uses a special set of rules that you must obey or
be cast out.
You have to pass the tests, which make little or no sense...
3.The spiritual group promises eternal life in a paradise if you obey its
set of rules, and threatens eternal suffering if you do not obey its
set of rules.
Well, the promise of a decent job at least... and if you flunk,
you'd have to major in English or something! Ack!
4.The spiritual group demands that you give up as much of your assests
and your yearly income to it as possible.
Tuition...
5.The members of the spiritual group call each other "brother" and
"sister," even when they aren't related at all.
We called each other different names and sometimes cast aspersions
at other student's parentage...
6.The spiritual group is led by a group of enlightened masters who
wear strange clothes and speak in esoteric parables.
Professors. QED.
7.The spiritual group demands that you accept its teachings without
reservation, even when those teachings are in direct conflict with your
understanding of basic scientific knowledge.
Maybe you have to have actually sat through a class in fiber optics or
relativity to get this one...
8.The spiritual group demands that you select your spouse and your
closest friends from its membership.
When did I ever meet anyone from outside the department? Rarely...
9.The spiritual group demands that you place your children in its
training program.
My dad was an engineer too, as is my sister (seriously!)...
10.The spiritual group teaches that giving up your life for the sake of
the spiritual group may become necessary sometime in the future.
I gave up any semblance of a social life many times to complete labs
and I'm not sure if I have it back yet...
Anyway, you get the joke I'm sure.
Ethan
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 06:58:43 -0800
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: Jodies (Imperial, Zhodani and others)
on 11/28/00 7:24 PM, Douglas E. Berry at gridlore@pop.mindspring.com wrote:
> At 12:09 PM 11/28/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>
>> Anyone tried there hand at writing some jodies? I mention this as I was
>> recently reminded of one of my personal favorites. If anyone knows the
>> complete form, please let men know.
>
>> What do those Imperial troops sing during their morning run?
>
> GF, page 21.
Forgot about that one. Thanks.
Tod
- --
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend"
- --
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.solsec.org
http://www.grandsurvey.com
http://travellerguns.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 12:00:00 EST
From: TOCoons@cs.com
Subject: Re: Accountants Everywhere
Luther Martin wrote:
> Having distant offices probably will require strange accounting. Today, we
> have to file our quarterly reports with the SEC within a certain time of
the
> quarter ending. If you have offices where you can't even get the data for a
> few months, you can't really publish accurate reports right away. Maybe you
> will see a series of updated reports issued every quarter which update all
> of the quarterly reports within the last year.
Delays in reporting might not be that big a problem. The principal effect
would be either be very slow decision-making (The Vilani tried that route),
or decentralized management. It's just not possible to efficiently
micromanage a company's operations on a quarterly basis from a subsector away.
A bigger problem would be choosing an appropriate accounting period, since
there will be no simple, neat relationship between the standard Imperial
calendar and local planetary calendars.
Then again, the presence of delays could prompt alterations in generally
accepted accounting practice.
"Well, you know how His Grace was so upset with ABC Widget? He was losing
money faster than an airlock with a bad seal. That was a real mess. You're
not going to believe this, but they still kept their books on an accrual
basis."
"You're kidding me. I thought everybody gave that up centuries ago. It isn't
all that much better than an elementary cash basis at matching at matching
expenses in one period to revenues in another."
"Tell me about it! I guess ABC was a lot bigger back when people were
adopting time-series, and thought it would more trouble than it was worth to
change over. Anyway, it took us the better part of a year to convert
everything, but his Grace seems to be pleased. Last I heard they were doing
better.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 07:45:30
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces review
At 08:30 AM 11/29/2000 +0200, you wrote:
>As an aside, your book reminded me again that the rpg community is not
>very large, even globally. I saw the book in a store, and paged through
>it, and then I noticed that the author's name was familiar from TML.
>
>I think it is good that game developers have contact with players. B-)
Actually, it was my being on the TML that got me to write the book. Really.
My first real credit was for some ship designs in _Imperial Squadrons_
followed by a short adventure in JTAS 26, both for T4. After that, and
seeing the positive feedback for both those endevours and for _At Close
Quarters_, that I decided to take the big leap.
And it is a big leap. Mind-numbingly huge. Until you've tried to write
it, you have no idea exactly what 96,000 words entails.. but y'all were of
great help and inspiration. Thanks to all, again.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 10:20:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Hex grid justification
I'm not sure why you believe that only one star per hex has any planets
orbiting it. Canon sources list up to three stars per hex - I assume
they listed only the three most important stars per hex, considering
the number of hexes which contain more than three stars. Also,
according to "canon" sources (mostly DGP products, but also the "One
Small Step" article in Challenge 45) many of those secondary and
tertiary stars have worlds orbiting them, and at least in the Challenge
article, those worlds had installations on them (the introduction has
players going there in a sublight spacecraft).
Even without worlds, there are bound to be planetessimals which could
be used for resources (fuel, minerals, whatnot). And, of course, you
have cheap solar power.
There also appears to be, in the Real Word™, an abundance of
super-Jovian planets in the general neighborhood of Sol. They'd make
great wilderness refuelling sources.
So, let's say you're the Imperial admiral in charge of making deep
thrusts into Solomani territory. You could conceivably bypass every
inhabited system (with their attendent fleet assets) by using these
subsidiary systems. You would simply set up your logistics support
bases in orbit around the star and you're good to go. Without constant
patrols, the Solomani admiral would never know the Imperial fleet was
passing through his territory.
=====
Gerry Harris
**********************************************************************************************
Æther Traveller — http://www.aethertraveller.com
Soldier's Companion — http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html
**********************************************************************************************
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war" — Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1
**********************************************************************************************
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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http://shopping.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 11:22:01 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Striker at DunDraCon!
>From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
>If Glenn shows up with his (redesigned) "vicious little red tanks,"
Striker is fundamentally a game about design competition -- but that
requires a pretty high level of commitment (as our significant others know
and frequently remind us -- at least mine does). I think from Luther's post
that he is planning on focussing on the tactical side and game dynamics
rather than design. He'll have some designs ready to go for players to use.
(I am happy to provide new designs for the VLRTs for use at the convention.)
>the whole San Jose Traveller group will be at DunDraCon.
No doubt the papparazzi will be there to cover us, sort of like when the
whole brat pack would go to the Sands for a weekend of craps and blackjack
(except that we'll be wearing tshirts and jeans instead of those snazzy
tropical worsted suits).
Luther had written:
>> November. I plan to blow some money on GeoHex terrain, so it should look
>> good as well as be fun.
Kristian replied:
>Hey! Our game looked good! (Has anyone else noticed how Luther has become
quite the
>miniature gamer?)
We do play on the most attractive miniatures table I have ever used. Next
time we set it up, we really should take a picture or three to post to the
web. Maybe I can borrow my brother's digital camera.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 11:22:03 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Jodies (Imperial, Zhodani and others)
I've been Spinward, and I've been back,
And I still like killin' filthy G'Naak.
Three young men in a Russian truck
With a li'l Mac Ten send 'em running to the huts
(Warren Zevon, Jungle Work)
Six brave Droyne on an old transport
Leader, Warrior, Worker, Techie Drone and Sport
- --Glenn (not much of a poet) (which does put me in mind of my friend Don
Barclay's explication of the difference between a novelist and a poet. "A
novelist," he explained, "is an asshole with an enormous ego and a
manuscript. A poet doesn't have a manuscript.")
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 12:54:37 -0800
From: sneadj@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: cybernetics
david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:
> Dear Jeffrey -
>
> You wrote:
> >In short, I'd like to know what people believe
> >the 3I's medical, genetic, and cybernetic technological capabilities
> >are.
>
> Sorry for the late response. I haven't even read ahead to see if
> anyone has already answered this query. Here's a start:
>
> http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw/libdata/clonfram.htm
I've tried this link several times in the last few days and it's always
down. Is the URL correct?
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 12:18:05 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Hex grid justification
In mail you write:
> There also appears to be, in the Real Word=99, an abundance of
> super-Jovian planets in the general neighborhood of Sol. They'd make
> great wilderness refuelling sources.
Well *some* of them would. That one orbiting closer than mercury is
*not* somplace you'd want to refuel from. even in an emergency!
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 12:23:58 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Paramilitary (was Re: December fun shoot)
In mail you write:
> In a fantastic fit or irony, the university where I went distributed
> anti-cult pamphlets to all the student society offices in an attempt
> to raise the awareness and danger of "cults on campus".
I used to have a troff file used by an *actual* "Campus Crusade for
Cthulhu" chapter to print flyers. Alas, it perished in a disk crash.
> Unfortunately, almost every single one of the attributes that it said
> to watch out for could have been perfectly applied to the Engineering
> Society where I stood reading the pamphlet...
It's also enlightening to compare various "mainstream" religions to
such guidelines.
But let's check out the TML...
> From some website which more or less sums up the same points:
>
> THE WARNING SIGNS:
>
> 1.The spiritual group claims to have received special instructions from
> one or more "messengers from the sky."
Marc Miller. Or Yaskodray. Take your pick.
> 2.The spiritual group uses a special set of rules that you must obey or
> be cast out.
And we argue about which *version* of the Traveller rules is correct. :-)
> 3.The spiritual group promises eternal life in a paradise if you obey its
> set of rules, and threatens eternal suffering if you do not obey its
> set of rules.
I'm not even going to *touch* this one.
> 4.The spiritual group demands that you give up as much of your assests
> and your yearly income to it as possible.
FLGS...
> 5.The members of the spiritual group call each other "brother" and
> "sister," even when they aren't related at all.
Well, we call each other "special names". :-)
> 6.The spiritual group is led by a group of enlightened masters who
> wear strange clothes and speak in esoteric parables.
Marc, Loren, anybody else who has written "official" stuff.
> 7.The spiritual group demands that you accept its teachings without
> reservation, even when those teachings are in direct conflict with your
> understanding of basic scientific knowledge.
Thruster plates.
> 8.The spiritual group demands that you select your spouse and your
> closest friends from its membership.
Gamers in general.
> 9.The spiritual group demands that you place your children in its
> training program.
Anybody here who *has* kids that are old enough and *hasn't* started
them gaming?
> 10.The spiritual group teaches that giving up your life for the sake of
> the spiritual group may become necessary sometime in the future.
> I gave up any semblance of a social life many times to complete labs
> and I'm not sure if I have it back yet...
Ditto gaming.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 08:51:25 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Hex grid justification
On Tue, Nov 28, 2000 at 11:51:09PM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> It's *really* unlikely that the other systems would meet those
> conditions. "Cometary clouds" are virtually certain.
Yeah, in real life. But then, Traveller planet generation doesn't
match a lot of what we know about real life formation, so I thought
I'd just extrapolate to uninhabited systems as well.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 14:07:01 -0800
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: The Regina Tattler
> Tod Glenn wrote:
> > Mutant Super-Vargr Shock Troops Engineered by SuSAG Assault
> > Laboratory!
>
> <swipe!> Filed for future use ... though the "fluffy hyper-fur"
> makes it sound like something out of one of the weirder
> Manga/Anime titles.
>
> Regards PLST
There's more. You can read the regina press at:
http://www.travellercentral.com/regina/regina.html and follow the press
links. Some of the material is non-canon, but can be suitable adapted.
I've snagged www.spinwardmarches.com,. Perhaps I should rename it the
Spinward Tattler and move it there. Anyone care to contribute?
Tod
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 09:22:54 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Trade Volume Heresy
On Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 05:59:20AM -0500, Christopher Thrash wrote:
> A useful refinement to the model for handling trade between worlds
> of dramatically different size is to include an interaction term, so
> that trade depends on their relative economic size as well as
> absolute size.
The model *does* include such an interaction term. That's its biggest
problem, as the magnitude of that term is far, far greater than
anything reasonable.
After further tests and reducing the posible magnitude of the effect
from a factor of 100000 to a factor of 100, then to 10, I now believe
that it should be dropped altogether.
Jim is quite correct that it should really fall below the granularity
level and be omitted from the model.
> Folks who are set up to do it all automatically should feel free to
> add whatever computationally intensive bells and whistles they
> desire.
I'm reducing computational complexity, not adding it. Pairwise
comparison is an O(n^2) operation. I'm building one with typical
complexity of O(n). Worst case gives roughly O(n^1.5).
> But quite frankly, off-the-wall results from the FT trade model are
> as much the fault of Traveller's off-the-wall world generation
> system as anything else.
I mostly agree :^)
That's why empirical models from the real world are less likely to be
useful. Better results would be provided by applying some basic
theoretical principles to the (non-Earthlike) Traveller universe and
deriving a new empirical model from the outcome. I agree, it's
probably too much work for a game system author to bother with. But
then, it only needs to be done once.
As it is, I'm going to be doing it myself anyway, with the additional
disadvantage that I don't have a strong background in economics and
so will probably mess up in some way.
> When it takes weeks or months to communicate with suppliers, the
> whole way a company does business is affected.
So we seem to agree that the formula should be scaled so that number
of jumps required is far more important than hex-grid distance. 3
parsecs is still only one week (like 1 parsec), just a bit more
expensive.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 09:31:23 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Hex grid justification
On Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 12:17:26PM +0100, Tage Borg wrote:
> Besides, just having a sun around is a good thing. You can put a space
> station with solar energy arrays around the star and not have to worry about
> energy supply, like you would have to in empty space. Flying in material,
> supplies and fuel for visiting starships is not all that difficult.
In Traveller, fusion power is incredibly more effective than solar, in
cost, weight, and volume. If flying in fuel for starships is easy,
then so is flying in fuel for a power plant (although it will need
virtually none).
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 09:37:19 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Hex grid justification
On Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 10:20:06AM -0800, Gerry Harris wrote:
> I'm not sure why you believe that only one star per hex has any planets
> orbiting it. Canon sources list up to three stars per hex
Wow, I didn't realise that. I had thought that useful planets were
very sparse in the canon Traveller universe. Apparently not. Does
this mean that 'empty' hexes really contain stars that no-one has
bothered to inhabit?
> There also appears to be, in the Real Word?, an abundance of
> super-Jovian planets in the general neighborhood of Sol. They'd make
> great wilderness refuelling sources.
I agree, which is why I deliberately divorced Traveller planetary
theories from Real Life. However, if even canon sources indicate that
many more systems exist than are listed, then I may revise that
decision. (I prefer to stay close to published materials since
otherwise it becomes very difficult to make any use of it)
- - Tim
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3341
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3342
Date: | 11/30/00 1:52:13 AM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Thursday, November 30 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3342
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Hex grid justification
Re: Hex grid justification
RE: fifth frontier war
RE: Hex grid justification
Programing Question
Special Request (Again)
Re: Hex grid justification
Boojums - Field Meson Artillery
Re: Trade Volume Heresy
Re: Paramilitary (was Re: December fun shoot)
Re: Trade Volume Heresy
Re: Hex grid justification
Re: Trade Volume Heresy
Re: fifth frontier war
Re: fifth frontier war
House rules
Re: fifth frontier war
Re: fifth frontier war
IIRC
Re: fifth frontier war
Re: IIRC
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 17:37:50 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Hex grid justification
>Yeah, in real life. But then, Traveller planet generation doesn't
>match a lot of what we know about real life formation, so I thought
>I'd just extrapolate to uninhabited systems as well.
Well, if you're bending the physics of planetary system generation to that
point, why not just go naked and say that the Traveller galaxy *really is*
flat? It seems an odd point at which to sheer off.
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 10:25:20 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Hex grid justification
On Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 05:37:50PM -0500, Paul Drye wrote:
> Well, if you're bending the physics of planetary system generation
> to that point, why not just go naked and say that the Traveller
> galaxy *really is* flat? It seems an odd point at which to sheer
> off.
I try to reconcile the Traveller universe with what we know about the
real world to as great an extent as possible. I'm far more willing to
believe that our theories of planetary formation are wrong than that
almost all of the stars we see are illusions.
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 17:43:24 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: fifth frontier war
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
>I'm now wondering if it should be a *loaded* tanker squadron
>takes 6 'squadrons' worth of fuel to refuel and an *unloaded*
>tanker squadron takes just 1 'squadron' worth of fuel to refuel.
>That would make sense in CT and no longer be a direct
>contradiction of the 5FW text (merely an amendment).
CT fuel requirements are based on ship volume, not mass. Unless the fuel
tankage consists of collapsible bladders, the tankers have the same volume
full as empty, and so the same fuel requirement.
>Why do you dislike "house rules and rules interpretations that
>directly contradict the text" so strongly?
The text is shared by all potential gamers, but house rules (by which I mean
rules that are not contained within the text and interpretations of the text
that contradict the text) are not. This leads to two major issues for me:
1) When gamers come together to play, if they are relying on the text of the
rules, they may begin play with very little preliminary discussion and thus
maximize their gaming time. House rules require time to explain and
potentially more time to agree upon. Gamers of my age, station in life, and
experience level tend to have very little free time. I don't want to waste
my time or theirs on ancillary, non-game matters.
2) If the game requires design work -- e.g., Striker and Trillion Credit
Squadron/High Guard -- house rules are an even more pernicious problem,
because gamers may bring designs to the game that the house rules have
rendered, directly or indirectly, suboptimal or, conceivably, superoptimal.
That is not fair to any of the designers. In a design competition game,
everybody must be designing for the same set of rules. If someone wants to
use a house rule, all designers have to agree long before the game. Anyone
who did not participate in that discussion but who just shows up for the
game has wasted his time doing designs. See supra re amount of time
available to mid-career, non-single, professionals who game as a hobby.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 18:59:04 -0800
From: "tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@bigfoot.com>
Subject: RE: Hex grid justification
Yeah - In a Trinary star system. Trinary systems are a group of three stars
that orbit themselves at close (well, astromoically range) range. IIRC that
what was proposed in this is that each hex on the map is infact a slice of
space with may star systems in in. 2 very diffrent things. I do not think
that the inclusion of trinary systems in Cannon means that there are tons of
star systems in each hex that are accessable. Sorta like saying because a
boat can float, it really is not floating but it is flying via contragrav.
Honestly, I do not think to much about the mapping being 2d. I tend to wave
my hand frantically and say it's that way because jumpspace is not 'normal'
in any definition of the word. Only certian star systems are accessable by
jumpspace. Jumpspace was created by the accretion disk of the black hole at
the center of the galaxy, so it's disk shaped also. If a star system is
accessable, that means that the jump drive accually works there. If you STL
over to a non-accessable system, jump drives blink a lot, consume tons of
fuel, the grid glows blue and you sit there. Jumpspace ignores vertical
movement completly - cause well (hand blurring now as I even more
frantically wave it) it's 2d.
;)
- -----Original Message-----
On Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 10:20:06AM -0800, Gerry Harris wrote:
> I'm not sure why you believe that only one star per hex has any planets
> orbiting it. Canon sources list up to three stars per hex
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 21:04:47 -0600
From: "Shimmergloom" <dragon@mhtc.net>
Subject: Programing Question
Hey, any of those of you out there that use VB6 have a little time to spare
to answer a quick question. Email me off the list so I don't waste any more
time of those who don't care.
Thanks.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:18:37 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Special Request (Again)
Gentles,
Tapping the widest knowledge base I know:
I need to consult with someone who is (or knows) a model railroad buff.
Basically, I need details of the dimensions of standard railroad rolling
stock from the late 19th century (and perhaps onward).
Please reply to lkw@io.com to spare the list.
Loren Wiseman
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 14:32:48 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Hex grid justification
On Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 06:59:04PM -0800, tsykoduk wrote:
> Honestly, I do not think to much about the mapping being 2d. I tend to wave
> my hand frantically and say it's that way because jumpspace is not 'normal'
> in any definition of the word.
It makes a big difference in GURPS Traveller. Jump masking is about 5
times less inconvenient in 3D than in 2D, even if the stars are really
all confined to a plane.
> Jumpspace was created by the accretion disk of the black hole at
> the center of the galaxy, so it's disk shaped also.
Yes, I've thought of planar jumpspace as a possibility also. The
reason I changed my mind was that there are a number of real-life star
systems listed in Traveller materials that are way outside any single
plane.
It did bring up interesting possibilities though -- generation ships
launched before jumpdrive technology could well have arrived at system
inaccessible by jump from Imperium worlds. They may well have
established their own far-flung interstellar empire, with their own
independently-invented jump technology. They would be isolated from
the Imperium in jumpspace terms but intermingled in real space.
Then someone finds out how to bridge the gap, and all sorts of
problems ensue when the Imperium discovers an an empire of equal or
greater power effectively sharing every parsec of its space.
Eventually the inventor is silenced, the device destroyed, and the
whole thing becomes a Strategic Official Secret known only to the very
highest nobles of the Imperium, and they don't *want* to know. :^)
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:29:09 -0500
From: "Dan Lane" <danielrlane@home.com>
Subject: Boojums - Field Meson Artillery
I like "Boojums" a lot. Very clever - many sources for that one (Lewis
Caroll & Vonda McIntyre that I can think of).
- -Dan Lane
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 21:47:12 -0600
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Trade Volume Heresy
Timothy Little wrote:
> I'm reducing computational complexity, not adding it. Pairwise
> comparison is an O(n^2) operation. I'm building one with typical
> complexity of O(n). Worst case gives roughly O(n^1.5).
Say what? How do I hand calculate an exponent of 1.5?
Which is one of Jim's points. I can't do that without a scientific
calculator.
bloo
disclaimer: partner-in-crime with Messers Thrash and McClean.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:28:50 -0600
From: Charles R Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Paramilitary (was Re: December fun shoot)
Ethan Henry wrote:
>"Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
>>
>> Ouch. So much for that infamous paramiltary organization: the cub
scouts.
>
>In a fantastic fit or irony, the university where I went distributed
>anti-cult pamphlets to all the student society offices in an attempt
>to raise the awareness and danger of "cults on campus".
>
>Unfortunately, almost every single one of the attributes that it said
>to watch out for could have been perfectly applied to the Engineering
>Society where I stood reading the pamphlet...
>
>>From some website which more or less sums up the same points:
>
>THE WARNING SIGNS:
>
>1.The spiritual group claims to have received special instructions from
> one or more "messengers from the sky."
>
>Our engineering mascot was a gigantic RIGID-brand pipe wrench...
>
>2.The spiritual group uses a special set of rules that you must obey or
> be cast out.
>
>You have to pass the tests, which make little or no sense...
Professional ethics. Various laws requiring Professional Licensing,
with fines and jail time for not having a license for some jobs.
>
>3.The spiritual group promises eternal life in a paradise if you obey
its
> set of rules, and threatens eternal suffering if you do not obey its
> set of rules.
>
>Well, the promise of a decent job at least... and if you flunk,
>you'd have to major in English or something! Ack!
>
Again License rules, You must have Licensed Engineers vauch for you to
get your license.
>4.The spiritual group demands that you give up as much of your assests
> and your yearly income to it as possible.
>
>Tuition...
Professional Societies dues. How many do you have to be a member of????
for me, 4 and at least a dozen have tried to get me to join.
>
>5.The members of the spiritual group call each other "brother" and
> "sister," even when they aren't related at all.
>
>We called each other different names and sometimes cast aspersions
>at other student's parentage...
>
>6.The spiritual group is led by a group of enlightened masters who
> wear strange clothes and speak in esoteric parables.
>
>Professors. QED.
>
>7.The spiritual group demands that you accept its teachings without
> reservation, even when those teachings are in direct conflict with
your
> understanding of basic scientific knowledge.
>
>Maybe you have to have actually sat through a class in fiber optics or
>relativity to get this one...
>
>8.The spiritual group demands that you select your spouse and your
> closest friends from its membership.
>
>When did I ever meet anyone from outside the department? Rarely...
>
Science majors are also acceptable. But NO one else will speak to you,
I think this is part of a conspiracy from the higher levels of the
"spiritual group"
>9.The spiritual group demands that you place your children in its
> training program.
>
>My dad was an engineer too, as is my sister (seriously!)...
>
>10.The spiritual group teaches that giving up your life for the sake of
> the spiritual group may become necessary sometime in the future.
>
>I gave up any semblance of a social life many times to complete labs
>and I'm not sure if I have it back yet...
>
>Anyway, you get the joke I'm sure.
>
Charles H
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:40:12 -0600
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Trade Volume Heresy
Steve Daniels wrote:
>
> Timothy Little wrote:
>
> > I'm reducing computational complexity, not adding it. Pairwise
> > comparison is an O(n^2) operation. I'm building one with typical
> > complexity of O(n). Worst case gives roughly O(n^1.5).
>
> Say what? How do I hand calculate an exponent of 1.5?
<puzzled>
You simply cube the square root. Or, if you prefer, take the square
root of the cube. It's all good.
</puzzled>
(What can I say, I've spent the entire semester tutoring college
algebra....)
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:41:44 -0600
From: Charles R Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Hex grid justification
Gerry Harris wrote:
>I'm not sure why you believe that only one star per hex has any planets
>orbiting it. Canon sources list up to three stars per hex - I assume
>they listed only the three most important stars per hex, considering
>the number of hexes which contain more than three stars. Also,
>according to "canon" sources (mostly DGP products, but also the "One
>Small Step" article in Challenge 45) many of those secondary and
>tertiary stars have worlds orbiting them, and at least in the Challenge
>article, those worlds had installations on them (the introduction has
>players going there in a sublight spacecraft).
>
Let's get this straight. We need a good canon source.
CT:Book 6 Scouts. pg. 55
Regina System
primary star
5 planets and gas giants
8 moons (including Regina)
Companion star (orbit 5000 AU)
3 planets and gas giants
9 moons
Charles H
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 15:48:16 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Trade Volume Heresy
On Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 09:47:12PM -0600, Steve Daniels wrote:
> Timothy Little wrote:
>
> > I'm reducing computational complexity, not adding it. Pairwise
> > comparison is an O(n^2) operation. I'm building one with typical
> > complexity of O(n). Worst case gives roughly O(n^1.5).
>
> Say what? How do I hand calculate an exponent of 1.5? Which is one
> of Jim's points. I can't do that without a scientific calculator.
You don't need to. The notation O(...) is used in computer science to
describe how much computation is needed to carry out a task. There
are no fractional exponents used in my method itself.
An example: if there are N systems in a region of interest, then there
are N(N+1)/2 pairs of systems between which trade needs to be
calculated. You do not need to work out what N(N+1)/2 is, it just
tells you how much work you're going to have to do.
For a subsector with 30 systems, there are 465 calculations to be done
with the pairwise method used in GT:FT. My method typically takes 150
or so. In the best case, it takes 90. In a carefully-constructed
worst case (which looks nothing like a typical Traveller map), it
takes about 800.
In a sector of 500 systems, the GT:FT system requires 125,250
calculations. My method needs about 2,500 calculations for a typical
Traveller map -- 50 times less. This makes is feasible to work out
whole-sector trade routes by hand in a few hours. The "standard"
method would take weeks just to get the raw bilateral trade numbers,
and then you'd have to develop trade routes from that (and fix the
original trade volumes where the routes dictate different numbers).
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:22:52 -0800
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
Subject: Re: fifth frontier war
"Glenn M. Goffin" wrote:
...
> >Why do you dislike "house rules and rules interpretations that
> >directly contradict the text" so strongly?
...
> maximize their gaming time. House rules require time to explain and
> potentially more time to agree upon.
Worse yet, they usually don't get explained before the game and are
frequently changed to suit the whim of the author (usually to slant the
game to author's benefit). If a game is so bad that it needs to be
patched, why play it? why keep buying the supplements? It's not like
there aren't a plethora of good games out there.
> Gamers of my age, station in life, and
Station in life? I hadn't thought of it that way. :-)
Kristian
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:23:30 -0800
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
Subject: Re: fifth frontier war
"Glenn M. Goffin" wrote:
> >Why do you dislike "house rules and rules interpretations that
> >directly contradict the text" so strongly?
>
> The text is shared by all potential gamers, but house rules (by which I mean
> rules that are not contained within the text and interpretations of the text
> that contradict the text) are not. This leads to two major issues for me:
>
> 1) When gamers come together to play, if they are relying on the text of the
> rules, they may begin play with very little preliminary discussion and thus
> maximize their gaming time. House rules require time to explain and
> potentially more time to agree upon. Gamers of my age, station in life, and
> experience level tend to have very little free time. I don't want to waste
> my time or theirs on ancillary, non-game matters.
>
> 2) If the game requires design work -- e.g., Striker and Trillion Credit
> Squadron/High Guard -- house rules are an even more pernicious problem,
> because gamers may bring designs to the game that the house rules have
> rendered, directly or indirectly, suboptimal or, conceivably, superoptimal.
> That is not fair to any of the designers. In a design competition game,
> everybody must be designing for the same set of rules. If someone wants to
> use a house rule, all designers have to agree long before the game. Anyone
> who did not participate in that discussion but who just shows up for the
> game has wasted his time doing designs. See supra re amount of time
> available to mid-career, non-single, professionals who game as a hobby.
>
> --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 18:50:14 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: House rules
On Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 10:22:52PM -0800, Kristian Miller wrote:
[... house rules ...]
> Worse yet, they usually don't get explained before the game and are
> frequently changed to suit the whim of the author (usually to slant
> the game to author's benefit).
Yes, I admit it: I modify rules to slant games to my own benefit. My
preference is for games that are internally consistent. Hence rules
that are more consistent benefit me. Thus, when I make up more
consistent house rules it is only because it benefits me to do so.
However, internal consistency is not the only reason to make changes.
Maybe someone prefers a universe in which characters die rarely. They
might change the rules for damage and recovery so as to implement that
preference. Maybe they are annoyed at how long combat takes to
resolve, and change the system to speed it up.
Basically I believe that how well a set of rules benefits someone is a
very good basis for choosing (or changing) a given set of rules. It's
a game. People play games to have fun. If you don't think you'll
have fun with someone else's rules, don't play in their game.
Tastes differ. Consider drinking coffee as an analogy for playing
games. Yes, it would be easier if everyone drank black coffee of a
single brand and the same strength without sugar. You wouldn't have
to ask someone new how they prefer their coffee. But people like
different brands, strengths, and additives. Similarly, different
people like different rules for their Traveller games.
> If a game is so bad that it needs to be patched, why play it?
Patching the game is part of the fun. :^)
Apart from that, there is the sense of dislocation that comes from
running across some consequence of a rule set that makes no sense. As
a GM, I prefer to be consistent in how the game world works, and
follow a policy of "minimum damage" to believability. I tend to
analyse the workings of the game world in great detail, so that the
characters and events have a rich and believable background.
As a player, my characters tend to be explorers, or scientists, or
other types that push the envelope of their knowledge. Unfortunately
this means they also stress the rules greatly -- if the rules produce
something odd, they are likely to investigate the strange phenomenon
in the game. This means either the GM needs a good explanation for
the strangeness, or a set of rules that don't produce such weirdness
in the first place.
> why keep buying the supplements?
I get more things to patch :^)
More seriously, if there are 200 rules in a new supplement and I only
need to patch 50 of them, I'm still coming out ahead by 150 rules.
Just because I like to fix a lot of rules doesn't mean I consider the
whole book worthless. There are also more things in supplements than
just rules. These things can be used even if every single rule is
useless.
> It's not like there aren't a plethora of good games out there.
I haven't found a game yet with rules so good that they leave no room
for improvement. I doubt that such a game can exist.
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 01:00:19 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: fifth frontier war
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
>"Glenn M. Goffin" wrote:
>...
>> >Why do you dislike "house rules and rules interpretations that
>> >directly contradict the text" so strongly?
>...
>> maximize their gaming time. House rules require time to explain and
>> potentially more time to agree upon.
>
>Worse yet, they usually don't get explained before the game and are
>frequently changed to suit the whim of the author (usually to slant the
>game to author's benefit). If a game is so bad that it needs to be
>patched, why play it? why keep buying the supplements? It's not like
>there aren't a plethora of good games out there.
Well, that is in your humble opion. Myself, I prefer to beable to have
a free hand with my own games I run. I don't see Marc Miller, Loren
Wiseman, or yourself playing with me, so I will change what you wrote to
better suit me & my players.
For example, I use the ICON Rules from Last Unicorn Games now to run a
Traveller Game. They are simple & easy to play. Both my players & myself
prefer the ICON Rules compared to the CT, MT, TNE, T4, & GT Rules, so we are
using what we prefer.
And, when a new player shows up, we either print out a basic set of the
rules or hand them a disk with them on it. So, at least with me & my
players we don't have to explain them ahead of time, as we already know
them.
In other words, say you joined us where we game, you would see two piles
of books out on the table. Traveller & Star Trek. The background for the
game comes from the Traveller Books, the Rules from the Star Trek RPG Books.
Though, this is a trend, you either have Rulesets with a Background
tacked on, or a Background with a Ruleset tacked on. Sorta like the early
days of Traveller, when it was just a Ruleset without a Background.
I bid you peace.
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"
"I don't need Romance. I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
USS Excaliber.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 19:24:40 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: fifth frontier war
On Thu, Nov 30, 2000 at 01:00:19AM -0700, Legate Legion wrote:
> Though, this is a trend, you either have Rulesets with a Background
> tacked on, or a Background with a Ruleset tacked on. Sorta like the early
> days of Traveller, when it was just a Ruleset without a Background.
These days, it's more like a background with rules tacked on. The
setting and flavour have endured far longer than the original rules.
It's also why I bought GURPS Traveller and GT:Far Trader.
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 08:32:36 -0000
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net>
Subject: IIRC
Hi there
Blush, could any one without going to too much bother explain to me what
IIRC stands for.... I guess it means something like Imperial Identity
something Civilian?
Your help would be appreciated in this matter.
Mike
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net
ICQ#27333894
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 02:05:19 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: fifth frontier war
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
>> Though, this is a trend, you either have Rulesets with a Background
>> tacked on, or a Background with a Ruleset tacked on. Sorta like the
early
>> days of Traveller, when it was just a Ruleset without a Background.
>
>These days, it's more like a background with rules tacked on. The
>setting and flavour have endured far longer than the original rules.
>It's also why I bought GURPS Traveller and GT:Far Trader.
Agreed. I have bought, or been given GT items because they have
Traveller in their titles, not because I like GURPS.
Personally I prefer the trend that is happening today. Backgounds with
Rules tacked on. I like being able to pick & choose what Ruleset I use.
And, right now I am torn between ICON & Phoenix Command, but that is me &
YMMV.
I bid you peace.
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"
"I don't need Romance. I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
USS Excaliber.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 01:50:23 -0800
From: Gordon Horne <gordon.horne@home.com>
Subject: Re: IIRC
>Hi there
>
>Blush, could any one without going to too much bother explain to me what
>IIRC stands for.... I guess it means something like Imperial Identity
>something Civilian?
>
>Your help would be appreciated in this matter.
>
> Mike
>
Hi Mike,
It stands for "If I Recall Correctly." It's just some obnoxious
shorthand those of us who really aren't very smart use to try to
impress people we probably will never meet in real life. 8^)
Other common ones include:
ISTR I Seem To Recall
IMHO In My Humble Opinion
IMNSHO In My Not So Humble Opinion
WAG Wild Assed Guess
SWAG Scientific Wild Assed Guess
YMMV Your Mileage May Vary
IOW In Other Words
And unique to our little corner or geekdom:
OTU Official Traveller Universe (whatever it is this week)
IMTU In My Traveller Universe
IYTU In Your Traveller Universe
DIAW Dulinor Is A Weenie
Now you too can be a geek 8^)
TTFN
g
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3342
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    Traveller-digest    Thursday, November 30 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3343

    (R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
    All rights reserved.

    The following topics are covered in this digest:

    [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    Re: IIRC
    Re: Hex grid justification
    Re: IIRC
    RE: fifth frontier war
    Re: Safari ship...
    Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    Re: Hex grid justification
    "Pocket Empires" Economics Question
    Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    Re: Hex grid justification
    Traveller Cardboard Heroes
    Re: IIRC
    Re: Hex grid justification
    Re: Hex grid justification
    Re: fifth frontier war
    Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    Re: Hex grid justification
    Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    Re: Hex grid justification
    Re: Newbie Idiot Questions
    Re: Trade Volume Heresy
    Re: Hex grid justification
    Re: Hex grid justification

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 05:51:42 -0500
    From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
    Subject: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    Check out today's Daily Illuminator for an advance look at the forthcoming
    /Beowulf/-class free trader deckplans from SJ Games.

    http://www.sjgames.com/ill/

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 03:04:43 -0800 (PST)
    From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: IIRC

    If I Remember Correctly.

    - --- "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net> wrote:
    > Hi there
    >
    > Blush, could any one without going to too much bother explain to me
    > what
    > IIRC stands for.... I guess it means something like Imperial Identity
    > something Civilian?
    >
    > Your help would be appreciated in this matter.
    >
    >  Mike
    >
    > Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net
    > ICQ#27333894
    >
    > "Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."
    >

    =====
    Gerry Harris
    **********************************************************************************************
    Æther Traveller — http://www.aethertraveller.com
    Soldier's Companion — http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html
    **********************************************************************************************
    "Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war" — Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1
    **********************************************************************************************

    __________________________________________________
    Do You Yahoo!?
    Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
    http://shopping.yahoo.com/

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 00:26:22 PST
    From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
    Subject: Re: Hex grid justification

    In mail you write:

    > On Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 12:17:26PM +0100, Tage Borg wrote:
    >> Besides, just having a sun around is a good thing. You can put a space
    >> station with solar energy arrays around the star and not have to worry
    > about
    >> energy supply, like you would have to in empty space. Flying in material,
    >> supplies and fuel for visiting starships is not all that difficult.
    >
    > In Traveller, fusion power is incredibly more effective than solar, in
    > cost, weight, and volume.  If flying in fuel for starships is easy,
    > then so is flying in fuel for a power plant (although it will need
    > virtually none).

    But fusion plants give off neutrinos, which are detectable.

    - --
    Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
     shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
    leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 11:22:53 +0000
    From: Rob Myers <robm@onetel.net.uk>
    Subject: Re: IIRC

    Imperial Interstellar Recon Corp.? :-)

    - - Rob.

    On Thursday, November 30, 2000, at 11:04 AM, Gerry Harris wrote:

    > If I Remember Correctly.
    >
    > --- "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net> wrote:
    > > Hi there
    > >
    > > Blush, could any one without going to too much bother explain to me
    > > what
    > > IIRC stands for.... I guess it means something like Imperial Identity
    > > something Civilian?

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 11:24:55 -0000
    From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
    Subject: RE: fifth frontier war

    Glenn wrote:
    > > I'm now wondering if it should  be  a  *loaded*  tanker  squadron
    > > takes 6 'squadrons' worth of fuel to  refuel  and  an  *unloaded*
    > > tanker squadron takes just 1 'squadron' worth of fuel to  refuel.
    > > That  would  make  sense  in  CT  and  no  longer  be  a   direct
    > > contradiction of the 5FW text (merely an amendment).
    >
    > CT fuel requirements are based on ship volume, not mass.  Unless
    > the fuel tankage consists of collapsible bladders, the tankers
    > have the same volume full as empty, and so the same fuel
    > requirement.

    I've never actually sat down and designed a  fuel  tanker  but  I
    more or less assumed that  fuel  tankers  *did*  use  collapsible
    bladders (for cargo fuel).  A fixed volume tank is fine for  most
    ships but not for these.  I had in mind  numerous  fuel  bladders
    with jump nets (like the jump ship from Supp 8 only  bigger).  Is
    there any canon for fuel tanker designs (besides FSotSI)?

    Regards PLST

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 04:55:28 -0800 (PST)
    From: Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Safari ship...

      >>
      Are you kiddung? OF COURSE!!<W> Mike
      >>
    - --- Steven Hudson <shudson@lightspeed.ca> wrote:
    > >From: Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>
    > >Subject: Safari ship...
    > ...
    > >  This is my first post to the list, so I apologize
    > >if someone has brought this up before. I just got a
    > >copy of FFE's CT: The Classic Adventures, and saw
    > >'Safari Ship' for the first time. Does it strike
    > >anyone else that this would make a _much_ better
    > scout
    > >ship than the 'Courier'?
    >
    >   Well, it's got the pool and the wet bar as
    > standard, right?
    >

    __________________________________________________
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    Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
    http://shopping.yahoo.com/

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 08:18:38 EST
    From: Qstor@aol.com
    Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    Those look great! I might have to pre order one for myself for Christmas!
    I hope SJ Games does more...I'd love to see a Type S....

    Mike

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 00:23:32 +1100
    From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
    Subject: Re: Hex grid justification

    On Thu, Nov 30, 2000 at 12:26:22AM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
    > But fusion plants give off neutrinos, which are detectable.

    At what range?  I calculate around 10^11 neutrinos per joule, which at
    a range of 0.01 parsecs gives a neutrino flux of 10^-19 / J m^2.

    I don't know how sensitive the detectors in Traveller are, but if we
    assume that they are 100% efficient at capturing neutrinos then a
    starship with a detector 100m across could on average detect one
    neutrino from a 1000 MW plant after about 4 months of scanning at that
    distance.

    Of course, they would have to filter this neutrino from the background
    flux.  Stars are excellent neutrino sources, and a single star 10
    million parsecs away would produce around a million times the neutron
    flux as that 1000 MW power plant at 0.01 pc.  I wish them luck in
    trying to determine whether that neutrino came from a power plant, a
    local star in about the same direction, or from a star in a distant
    galaxy.

    Now, a solar array with similar power production would be rather
    large.  The further from the star, the bigger it must be, with area
    proportional to the square of the distance.  The volume of space to be
    searched increases with the cube, so it makes sense to put the array
    as far from the star as practical if detection is an issue.

    At life-zone orbit around a star like our sun, a 1000 MW array needs
    to be at least 1 km across.  It wouldn't take long to search this
    volume for an object that size though.  We could probably do that with
    current technology, let alone advances in the Imperium.

    So, how far out would such an array have to be in order to avoid
    detection?  How big would the collector need to be at that distance?
    How much benefit would the star *really* be giving?  It seems to me
    that illicit bases should be avoiding 'signposted' areas like star
    systems.

    Now, an uncharted rogue planet or cometary body in interstellar space
    would be ideal.  Somewhere to hide *with* raw materials, and fuel for
    starships and power plants.

    - --
    IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
    Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 09:18:07 -0500 (EST)
    From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
    Subject: "Pocket Empires" Economics Question

    Can anyone explain how to calculate the amount of
    Infrastructure degradation a world experiences when
    (a) its locally available Resources value is less
    than its Infrastructure value, and (b) its Total
    Demand value for the year is also greater than its
    locally available Resources value.

    I understand how to calculate the consumption of
    Resources for Intrastructure maintenance, but I'm
    having trouble with handling the "worst case"
    scenario for "overdeveloped" worlds (there is, alas,
    no example provided covering this).

    Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks!

                                            - J. Raynor

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 15:28:18 +0100
    From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
    Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    Christopher Thrash wrote:
    > /Beowulf/-class free trader deckplans from SJ Games.

    *drool*

    Must... purchase... deckplans...

    * Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
    | jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
    | ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
    * http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male        *

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 06:38:32 -0800 (PST)
    From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Hex grid justification

    When searching a nearby star for that hypothetical 1-km solar array,
    you must take into account that the information you are receiving is
    several months to years old.  In other words, the invading fleet could
    set up their logistics bases and be merrily raiding your supply lines
    long before you can determine from whence they are operating.

    - --- Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net> wrote:
    > On Thu, Nov 30, 2000 at 12:26:22AM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
    > > But fusion plants give off neutrinos, which are detectable.
    >
    > At what range?  I calculate around 10^11 neutrinos per joule, which
    > at
    > a range of 0.01 parsecs gives a neutrino flux of 10^-19 / J m^2.
    >
    > I don't know how sensitive the detectors in Traveller are, but if we
    > assume that they are 100% efficient at capturing neutrinos then a
    > starship with a detector 100m across could on average detect one
    > neutrino from a 1000 MW plant after about 4 months of scanning at
    > that
    > distance.
    >
    > Of course, they would have to filter this neutrino from the
    > background
    > flux.  Stars are excellent neutrino sources, and a single star 10
    > million parsecs away would produce around a million times the neutron
    > flux as that 1000 MW power plant at 0.01 pc.  I wish them luck in
    > trying to determine whether that neutrino came from a power plant, a
    > local star in about the same direction, or from a star in a distant
    > galaxy.
    >
    >
    > Now, a solar array with similar power production would be rather
    > large.  The further from the star, the bigger it must be, with area
    > proportional to the square of the distance.  The volume of space to
    > be
    > searched increases with the cube, so it makes sense to put the array
    > as far from the star as practical if detection is an issue.
    >
    > At life-zone orbit around a star like our sun, a 1000 MW array needs
    > to be at least 1 km across.  It wouldn't take long to search this
    > volume for an object that size though.  We could probably do that
    > with
    > current technology, let alone advances in the Imperium.
    >
    > So, how far out would such an array have to be in order to avoid
    > detection?  How big would the collector need to be at that distance?
    > How much benefit would the star *really* be giving?  It seems to me
    > that illicit bases should be avoiding 'signposted' areas like star
    > systems.
    >
    > Now, an uncharted rogue planet or cometary body in interstellar space
    > would be ideal.  Somewhere to hide *with* raw materials, and fuel for
    > starships and power plants.
    >
    >
    > --
    > IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++
    > as+ so- kk--
    > Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822

    =====
    Gerry Harris
    **********************************************************************************************
    Æther Traveller — http://www.aethertraveller.com
    Soldier's Companion — http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html
    **********************************************************************************************
    "Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war" — Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1
    **********************************************************************************************

    __________________________________________________
    Do You Yahoo!?
    Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
    http://shopping.yahoo.com/

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 15:43:47 +0100
    From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
    Subject: Traveller Cardboard Heroes

    Will the sheets in the GM's screen and in the Beowulf deckplans be the
    same?

    If not, will they be able separately? I want the deckplans and all of
    the Cardboard Heroes...

    * Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
    | jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
    | ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
    * http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male        *

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 06:51:43 -0800
    From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
    Subject: Re: IIRC

    on 11/30/00 12:32 AM, michael.scanlon at michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net
    wrote:

    > Hi there
    >
    > Blush, could any one without going to too much bother explain to me what
    > IIRC stands for.... I guess it means something like Imperial Identity
    > something Civilian?

    If I Recall Correctly

    Tod
    - --
    When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend"
    - --
    Tod L Glenn
    webmaster@travellercentral.com
    http://www.travellercentral.com
    http://www.solsec.org
    http://www.grandsurvey.com
    http://travellerguns.com

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 09:51:04 -0500
    From: Jonathan McDermott <caraig@mindspring.com>
    Subject: Re: Hex grid justification

    >Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 14:32:48 +1100
    >From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
    >Subject: Re: Hex grid justification
    ...
    >Yes, I've thought of planar jumpspace as a possibility also.  The
    >reason I changed my mind was that there are a number of real-life star
    >systems listed in Traveller materials that are way outside any single
    >plane.
    >
    >It did bring up interesting possibilities though

    <snip>

    May I 'borrowed' this idea?  It's just too good to pass up development on
    IMTU. =)

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 17:00:58 +0100
    From: "Tage Borg" <tage@hem.passagen.se>
    Subject: Re: Hex grid justification

    > Now, a solar array with similar power production would be rather
    > large.  The further from the star, the bigger it must be, with area
    > proportional to the square of the distance.  The volume of space to be
    > searched increases with the cube, so it makes sense to put the array
    > as far from the star as practical if detection is an issue.
    >
    > At life-zone orbit around a star like our sun, a 1000 MW array needs
    > to be at least 1 km across.  It wouldn't take long to search this
    > volume for an object that size though.  We could probably do that with
    > current technology, let alone advances in the Imperium.

    What? We can just barely find Jupiter-sized planets around other stars, and
    that's done with the help of the gravitational influence these enormous
    bodies have on their primaries! I can't believe it would be feasible to find
    even a 100 km-diameter _sphere_ orbiting Alpha Centauri with the technology
    of today. Finding a 1 km-diameter object in an semi-predictable orbit around
    our own star is seems difficult enough, we still find new asteroids in the
    belt every now and then and we're right here in this system and have been at
    it for decades...

    Besides, a base base doesn't need to be in orbit in the life zone. And even
    if that was the case, the space to search wouldn't be a torus, it'd be a
    hollow sphere. That means quite a bit of volume to scan, including the need
    to scan over long time to catch objects that are behind the star at first
    observation. If you go there in person, you'll still have to rocket around
    in the system a lot to get good coverage.

        /Tage

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 09:57:22 -0800
    From: "Simon Hibbs" <simonh_hibbs@my-deja.com>
    Subject: Re: fifth frontier war

    From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>

    >"Glenn M. Goffin" wrote:
    >...
    >> >Why do you dislike "house rules and  rules  interpretations  that
    >> >directly contradict the text" so strongly?
    >...
    >> maximize their gaming time.  House rules require time to explain and
    >> potentially more time to agree upon.

    All rules require some time to explain, and quite often people will
    disagree on the application of rules and their intent. These days I
    tend to use relatively simple game systems, or simplified versions
    of existing game systems so any time I spend covering house rules
    with new players is more than made up for by reduced rules admin and
    smoother gameplay.

    One thing that generaly does wind me up is extra-complicated house
    rules.

    >Worse yet, they usually don't get explained before the game and are
    >frequently changed to suit the whim of the author (usually to slant the
    >game to author's benefit). ...

    The author generaly being the referee, in which case anything which
    helps the referee run he game is a benefit for all. If not and you've
    got a car referee, then the simple remedy is not to play their game
    anyway.

    >                          ...If a game is so bad that it needs to be
    >patched, why play it? why keep buying the supplements?  It's not like
    >there aren't a plethora of good games out there.

    Since Traveller exists in several different revised and patched forms,
    why not play one of those 'good games' instead?

    As for myself, I'm a deyed-in-the-wool heretic of the worst order. For
    my next Traveller game I'm planning on using the Call of Cthulhu rules
    as the core game engine. It's far more familiar to my players than
    Mega Traveller (my favourite of the real Traveller versions), and I
    find the Chaosium percentage based system very easy to run.

    Simon Hibbs

    - ------------------------------------------------------------
    - --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
    Before you buy.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 13:01:12 -0600
    From: Brandon Cope <copeab@elc.net>
    Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    Christopher Thrash wrote:

    > Check out today's Daily Illuminator for an advance look at the forthcoming
    > /Beowulf/-class free trader deckplans from SJ Games.
    >
    > http://www.sjgames.com/ill/

    I had never realized just how big those ships were until now ... I've never
    really used miniatures, but this makes me strongly consider it (I would like
    similar plans of the 600-ton subisdized liner).

    BTW, is there some rule that we (male) gamers must wear glasses and have
    beards? Well, at least Loren has kept far more of his hair than I have ...

    Brandon

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 11:09:13 -0800 (PST)
    From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
    Subject: Re: Hex grid justification

    > Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 17:37:50 -0500
    > From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
    >
    > Well, if you're bending the physics of planetary system generation to
    > that point, why not just go naked and say that the Traveller galaxy
    > *really is* flat? It seems an odd point at which to sheer off.

    It certainly makes Cardboard Heroes fit the game better...

    - --
       |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
     --*--  "Here's to the struggles of the silent war,
       |   here's to the closing of the age." -The Call

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 12:21:37 -0700
    From: bruce johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
    Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    Brandon Cope wrote:

    > I had never realized just how big those ships were until now ... I've never
    > really used miniatures, but this makes me strongly consider it (I would like
    > similar plans of the 600-ton subisdized liner).

    Yeah!

    > BTW, is there some rule that we (male) gamers must wear glasses and have
    > beards? Well, at least Loren has kept far more of his hair than I have ...

    Yeah, verily Brother! It is graven upon the Traveller Cult rules #14a
    subsection b para 2 under 'Appearance, Facial, Male thereof' ;-)

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 12:28:12 -0700
    From: bruce johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
    Subject: Re: Hex grid justification

    Tage Borg wrote:

    >
    > What? We can just barely find Jupiter-sized planets around other stars, and
    > that's done with the help of the gravitational influence these enormous
    > bodies have on their primaries! I can't believe it would be feasible to find
    > even a 100 km-diameter _sphere_ orbiting Alpha Centauri with the technology
    > of today. Finding a 1 km-diameter object in an semi-predictable orbit around
    > our own star is seems difficult enough, we still find new asteroids in the
    > belt every now and then and we're right here in this system and have been at
    > it for decades...

    Well, firstly, we're not seeing them because we're not looking. NASA is
    planning a orbiting telescope purposed for looking for extrasolar planets.

    We're finding new asteroids all the time because we really haven't been
    at it for decades, and we're only now getting scopes of any decent
    quality put on the job full time.

    Astronomers gravitate, in the main, towards the really cool stuff way
    out there. Anything less than several thousand lightyears away or really
    big like colliding galaxies, black holes or supernovae don't really get
    a lot of attention.

    We don't even really know what the local stellar neigborhood is like. We
    know some of the near stars, but it's likely we don't know about far far
    more of them. It's quite possible that when we finally _look_ for the
    damn things, a star or stars closer that A. Centauri will show up...

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 17:55:41 +0000
    From: Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
    Subject: Re: Newbie Idiot Questions

    At 14:28 -0500 27/11/00, Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk wrote:
    >Nope, don't forget the bibliography.  That's _The Traveller Bibliography_
    >and _The Traveller Periodical Bibliography_.  :-)
    >For those who have just joined TML, they're both BITS books available from
    >Warehouse 23 and other places.

    Can I apologise for the fact that the BITS website has nothing on the
    Periodical Bibliography - it will appear as soon(*) as I get my new
    hard drive installed.

    Dom (BITS webmaster)

    * actually, it'll appear as soon as I get Go Live re-installed  and
    Illustrator and Photoshop, rebuild the site from CD and generally get
    my computer in order. This is after formating etc the new 20.4Gb
    drive..

    Dom

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 11:37:11 PST
    From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
    Subject: Re: Trade Volume Heresy

    In mail you write:

    > Timothy Little wrote:
    >
    >> I'm reducing computational complexity, not adding it.  Pairwise
    >> comparison is an O(n^2) operation.  I'm building one with typical
    >> complexity of O(n).  Worst case gives roughly O(n^1.5).
    >
    > Say what?  How do I hand calculate an exponent of 1.5?

    O(n^1.5) is a measure of computational complexity (ie how fast things
    get unmanageable as the number of items (worlds) to process increases).

    It has *nothing* to do with any actual exponents in the calculations.

    > Which is one of Jim's points.  I can't do that without a scientific
    > calculator.

    Sure you can. X^1.5 = sqrt(X^3)

    > bloo
    > disclaimer: partner-in-crime with Messers Thrash and McClean.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    - --
    Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
     shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
    leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 11:27:57 PST
    From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
    Subject: Re: Hex grid justification

    In mail you write:

    >> At life-zone orbit around a star like our sun, a 1000 MW array needs
    >> to be at least 1 km across.  It wouldn't take long to search this
    >> volume for an object that size though.  We could probably do that with
    >> current technology, let alone advances in the Imperium.
    >
    > What? We can just barely find Jupiter-sized planets around other stars, and
    > that's done with the help of the gravitational influence these enormous
    > bodies have on their primaries! I can't believe it would be feasible to find
    > even a 100 km-diameter _sphere_ orbiting Alpha Centauri with the technology
    > of today.

    We probably could if we had observatories in space or on the moon. Both
    are *possible* with current tech, just more expensive than folks are
    willing to pay for. And hubble isn't designed for that sort of thing.

    > Finding a 1 km-diameter object in an semi-predictable orbit around
    > our own star is seems difficult enough, we still find new asteroids in the
    > belt every now and then and we're right here in this system and have been at
    > it for decades...

    That's partly due to the atmosphere, and partly due to no real
    *systematic* searching being done.

    > Besides, a base base doesn't need to be in orbit in the life zone.

    Actually, it *does*. Or at least not too far out of it. Remember, to be
    *usable* the base has to be at radiative equilibrium. Radiator surfaces
    and reflective or absorbent coatings can change the distance where
    equilibrium is achieved at "room temp" by a fair amount, but the
    farther from the "natural" point for that temp, the harder it is to
    pull off.

    Heat balance is *critically* important in space installations, and
    always will be, barring "magic" level tech.

    > And even
    > if that was the case, the space to search wouldn't be a torus, it'd be a
    > hollow sphere. That means quite a bit of volume to scan, including the need
    > to scan over long time to catch objects that are behind the star at first
    > observation. If you go there in person, you'll still have to rocket around
    > in the system a lot to get good coverage.

    Actually, the IR emissions would make any habitable base stand out like
    a neon sign against the 3 K background of space.

    - --
    Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
     shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
    leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 15:48:22 EST
    From: Qstor@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Hex grid justification

    >Actually, it *does*. Or at least not too far out of it. >Remember, to be *usable* the base has to be at >radiative equilibrium. Radiator surfaces and reflective >or asorbent coatings can change the distance where >equilibrium is achieved at "room temp" by a fair >amount, but the farther from the "natural" point for >that temp, the harder it is to pull off.

    What about the canon Imperial Research station on Pluto?

    Mike

    ------------------------------

    End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3343
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    From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)
    To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com
    Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3344
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    Traveller-digest    Thursday, November 30 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3344

    (R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
    All rights reserved.

    The following topics are covered in this digest:

    Re: Hex grid justification
    Re: Trade volume heresy
    Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    RE: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    house rules
    Re: house rules
    Re: Trade volume heresy
    Re: Hex grid justification
    Re: house rules
    Re: Trade volume heresy
    Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    Re: Hex grid justification
    RE: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    Re: Hex grid justification
    Re: Trade volume heresy
    RE: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    Re: Hex grid justification
    Re: Hex grid justification
    Planetary Map Templates?
    Re: Trade volume heresy
    Re: Cthulhu Traveller (was fifth frontier war)
    Re: Planetary Map Templates?

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 21:59:26 +0100
    From: "Tage Borg" <tage@hem.passagen.se>
    Subject: Re: Hex grid justification

    > >Actually, it *does*. Or at least not too far out of it. >Remember, to be
    *usable* the base has to be at >radiative equilibrium. Radiator surfaces and
    reflective >or asorbent coatings can change the distance where >equilibrium
    is achieved at "room temp" by a fair >amount, but the farther from the
    "natural" point for >that temp, the harder it is to pull off.
    >
    > What about the canon Imperial Research station on Pluto?

    well, that far out, even i'd say that solar arrays are pretty much useless.
    the sun is probably not very much more bright than the surrounding stars as
    seen from plutos orbit (anywhere on it, perihelion or aphelion (sp?)). so
    the station is probably fusion powered.

        /tage

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 08:04:35 +1100
    From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au>
    Subject: Re: Trade volume heresy

    > From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
    > Subject: Re: Trade Volume Heresy
    > > For a subsector with 30 systems, there are 465 calculations to be done
    > with the pairwise method used in GT:FT.  My method typically takes 150
    > or so.  In the best case, it takes 90.  In a carefully-constructed
    > worst case (which looks nothing like a typical Traveller map), it
    > takes about 800.

    I cant speak for anyone else, but when I did District 267 and Five Sisters
    in detail, I cheated like heck (mail me privately if anyone wants a copy).

    The reason I did it was to crunch out the trade routes - the exact amount of
    trade was secondary, but I wanted to know who had regular service, who had a
    minor route connecting them to a bigger route, and who relied on Free
    Traders and the IISS.

    The key is to do big worlds first. The biggest world in the District is
    Collace, so you calculate the Collace-Trin, Collace-Mora and Collace-Sword
    Worlds runs.

    Then you work out the next biggest worlds, and so on, until you have done
    everyone important.

    A world with minimal WTN some distance from a big world just doesnt get the
    calculations done, because they arent going to be material.

    Of course, if you are centering a campaign around a world, you might do a
    bit more - it may only be BTN of 2.5 between Ochetate and Vland, but that
    BTN is actually Eneri Vashakigan's micro-business (he sends two kilos of
    hand-polished rock oyster shells each month to Naasirka, who bag, label and
    include them in their collector bags of 'Water Life of the Grand Imperium'
    ... and rumour is that a certain Grand Princess whose name starts with a
    letter between H and J is a keen collector who waits every month for an
    equerry to deliver her package).

    >
    > In a sector of 500 systems, the GT:FT system requires 125,250
    > calculations.  My method needs about 2,500 calculations for a typical
    > Traveller map -- 50 times less.  This makes is feasible to work out
    > whole-sector trade routes by hand in a few hours.  The "standard"
    > method would take weeks just to get the raw bilateral trade numbers,
    > and then you'd have to develop trade routes from that (and fix the
    > original trade volumes where the routes dictate different numbers).

    FWIW, Terry Mixon did the Spinward Marches, and I'm pretty sure he did less
    calculations than that.

    Ian Whitchurch

    "This post was brought to you by Mixon et Frere Reinsurance. Mixon et
    Frere - because we care"

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 16:09:50 -0500
    From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>
    Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    >Those look great! I might have to pre order one for myself for Christmas!
    >I hope SJ Games does more...I'd love to see a Type S....

    Yee Haa!  Follow that Type S with a Far Trader!

    - -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Opinions should be yours too! - http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
    "It's not looking good. According to the latest poll, 60 percent of
    Americans want Al Gore to concede the election. The other
    40 percent are lawyers working for Al Gore."  -- Jay Leno
    - -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 15:20:46 -0600
    From: "Smart, David J (David)" <dasmart@avaya.com>
    Subject: RE: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    Christopher Thrash posted:
    >
    > Check out today's Daily Illuminator for an advance look at
    > the forthcoming
    > /Beowulf/-class free trader deckplans from SJ Games.
    >
    > http://www.sjgames.com/ill/

    Loren? *Please* ask SJG to publish deckplans for all those
    in the CT supplement "Trader and Gunboats". Please?

    David

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 14:13:48 -0700
    From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
    Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    From: Qstor@aol.com <Qstor@aol.com>

    >Those look great! I might have to pre order one for myself for Christmas!
    >I hope SJ Games does more...I'd love to see a Type S....

        And, the Type T & Type C as well.

        I bid you peace.

    Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
    ICQ # 8973001
    legate@futureone.com

    "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
    places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
    passes. Entil'zha Veni!"

    "I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
    USS Excaliber.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 13:31:19 -0800
    From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
    Subject: house rules

    I should clarify that my aversion to house rules does not generally apply to
    role-playing games.  Role-playing games are not primarily about winning, so
    rules are rather less important; they are an aid to story-telling.  Games
    where the object is to win -- from rock/paper/scissors to Striker and
    beyond -- require agreed rules.  The contexts are really completely
    different.

    - --Glenn

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 16:41:58 -0500
    From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
    Subject: Re: house rules

    At 01:31 PM 11/30/2000 -0800, you wrote:
    >I should clarify that my aversion to house rules does not generally apply to
    >role-playing games.  Role-playing games are not primarily about winning, so
    >rules are rather less important; they are an aid to story-telling.  Games
    >where the object is to win -- from rock/paper/scissors to Striker and
    >beyond -- require agreed rules.  The contexts are really completely
    >different.

    I agree with regards to win/loose games.  We used to have that problem with
    Star Fleet Battles and all the rule books and supplements.  It got to the
    point where whoever had the most rule books, and used material from them,
    won the games.  We adopted a "house rule" to handle house rules and
    mandated that the baselines for any game was the edition that *everyone*
    had access to.  Not exactly perfect, but it did work.

    Kurt Feltenberger

    "To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,
        may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"
          ~Stephen Decatur

    mailto:kurt@blazenet.net

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 08:30:43 +1100
    From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au>
    Subject: Re: Trade volume heresy

    > From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
    > Subject: Re: Trade Volume Heresy
    >
    >
    > That's why empirical models from the real world are less likely to be
    > useful.  Better results would be provided by applying some basic
    > theoretical principles to the (non-Earthlike) Traveller universe and
    > deriving a new empirical model from the outcome.  I agree, it's
    > probably too much work for a game system author to bother with.  But
    > then, it only needs to be done once.

    Ahhh, the Grand Unified Traveller Trade Theory.

    I think you are wrong that it only needs to be done once - it needs to be
    re-done every time someone disagrees with your interpretations, and is
    prepared to do the maths and/or crunch the numbers to prove it :)

    BTW, my original pass at the GUTTT was to set up a trade system, then by a
    couple of zillion iterations adjust currency valuations so that all worlds
    had a rough long-term trade balance.

    You would then have crunched out the amount of trade created by each system
    and to where.

    Needless to say, it was goanna need some very heavy-duty computing, as it's
    basically a Sraffa model of an economy with time and distance factors added
    in :)

    >
    > As it is, I'm going to be doing it myself anyway, with the additional
    > disadvantage that I don't have a strong background in economics and
    > so will probably mess up in some way.
    >
    >
    > > When it takes weeks or months to communicate with suppliers, the
    > > whole way a company does business is affected.
    >
    > So we seem to agree that the formula should be scaled so that number
    > of jumps required is far more important than hex-grid distance.  3
    > parsecs is still only one week (like 1 parsec), just a bit more
    > expensive.

    Maybe. The key isssue is 'Is the economic infranstructure set up for jump-1,
    jump-2 or jump-3 ?'. If the infrastructure is set up for jump-2, then jump-3
    transport may attract quite a premium.

    Now, this basically rides on (a) ruling tech level and (b) exchange rates
    for lower-tech planets (if TL11 credits trade at a substantial discount to
    TL12 credits, then TL11 jump-2 ships will out-compete the slightly more
    efficient TL12 jump-3 ships).

    An irony of this is that jump-3 ships are often more useful on the fringes
    of the Imperium, where the route flexibility provided by the higher jump
    number allows you to dodge the more sub-standard facilities.

    Ian Whitchurch (also a partner in crime with the McLean-Thrash gang)

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 09:06:18 +1100
    From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
    Subject: Re: Hex grid justification

    On Thu, Nov 30, 2000 at 06:38:32AM -0800, Gerry Harris wrote:
    > When searching a nearby star for that hypothetical 1-km solar array,
    > you must take into account that the information you are receiving is
    > several months to years old.

    You just go take a look in person.  If the scout never comes back,
    well that's confirmation of a sort all by itself.

    >  In other words, the invading fleet could set up their logistics
    > bases and be merrily raiding your supply lines long before you can
    > determine from whence they are operating.

    The same, and more, applies if they set up in interstellar space.
    Easier to search a star system (out to say 100 AU) than search a whole
    cubic parsec.  The latter has 10 billion times more space to search.

    - - Tim

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 14:11:14 -0800
    From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
    Subject: Re: house rules

    > I should clarify that my aversion to house rules does not generally apply
    to
    > role-playing games.  Role-playing games are not primarily about winning,
    so
    > rules are rather less important; they are an aid to story-telling.  Games
    > where the object is to win -- from rock/paper/scissors to Striker and
    > beyond -- require agreed rules.  The contexts are really completely
    > different.

    One difference with Striker is that is was intended for use with a referee,
    so it's really more like the RPG than a board game. I'm not you sure that
    you can play a miniatures game without a referee, since it's probably not
    possible to cover every possibility in a clear and concise set of rules. The
    alternative is a game like ASL, which is fairly detailed, perhaps too
    detailed to appeal to most gamers.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 14:24:15 -0800 (PST)
    From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
    Subject: Re: Trade volume heresy

    Katharine Whitchurch writes:

    > FWIW, Terry Mixon did the Spinward Marches, and I'm pretty sure he did less
    > calculations than that.

    I don't always agree with his methods, but that's a side issue.

    My computerized method takes about half an hour on an old P2/450, but that's
    for around 50 sectors.  It has an O(2) term, but the primary term is in fact
    O(1) at this scale.  The process is:
    1)  Compute WTN for every world (n)
    2)  qsort WTN (n log n)
    3)  for every world, find all worlds within 4 pc (n^2)
    4)  for every world, start 'walking' away from it on the jump routes, ending
        when it is no longer possible to create a BTN-8 route (n).

    Step 4 is the most expensive on small to medium maps, followed by step 3.
    For sufficiently large values of n, I would need to optimize step 3.  There
    are various other steps, such as border computation, but all of them are
    first-order and relatively cheap.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 22:30:33 +0000
    From: Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
    Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    At 15:49 -0500 30/11/00, bruce johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:
    > > BTW, is there some rule that we (male) gamers must wear glasses and have
    > > beards? Well, at least Loren has kept far more of his hair than I have ...
    >
    >Yeah, verily Brother! It is graven upon the Traveller Cult rules #14a
    >subsection b para 2 under 'Appearance, Facial, Male thereof' ;-)

    Oh Dear.

    I suppose that means that Andy and I had better pack BITS up now, or
    grow beards. Maybe Matt could take it over...

    Dom

    (JOKING! But we don't have beards ;-) )

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 09:39:13 +1100
    From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
    Subject: Re: Hex grid justification

    On Thu, Nov 30, 2000 at 05:00:58PM +0100, Tage Borg wrote:
    > I can't believe it would be feasible to find even a 100 km-diameter
    > _sphere_ orbiting Alpha Centauri with the technology of today.

    I probably wasn't very clear writing this sentence.  I meant with the
    *detection* technology of today, we could probably find such objects
    if we had the ability to go to the system and do a systematic search.

    > Finding a 1 km-diameter object in an semi-predictable orbit around
    > our own star is seems difficult enough, we still find new asteroids
    > in the belt every now and then and we're right here in this system
    > and have been at it for decades...

    As far as I know, we haven't done any systematic searches for
    asteroids, and the belt is also well outside the life zone I was
    talking about.  The array would have to have an area about 5 times
    greater at that distance, making it easier still to spot.

    > If you go there in person, you'll still have to rocket around in the
    > system a lot to get good coverage.

    And this is not really a problem with reactionless thrusters.  In
    fact, a 300 km/s fly-through would make distinguishing local objects
    from distant ones by parallax that much easier.

    If we had the ability to get say 10 purpose-built detectors of our
    current technology into space, detecting km-scale objects would become
    much easier.  A small ship of a few hundred tons could easily carry
    these (the Hubble telescope is only about 10 tons).

    With the drastic parallax improvement, lack of atmospheric distortion,
    full-time operation and lack of bad weather, I would be surprised if
    it couldn't locate nearly all 1-km objects in the life zone within a
    couple of weeks even with our technology for the detectors.

    The Imperium should be able to do much better.

    - - Tim

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 23:37:41 +0100
    From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" <volker@greimann.de>
    Subject: RE: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    At 15:20 30.11.00 -0600, you wrote:
    >Christopher Thrash posted:
    > >
    > > Check out today's Daily Illuminator for an advance look at
    > > the forthcoming
    > > /Beowulf/-class free trader deckplans from SJ Games.
    > >
    > > http://www.sjgames.com/ill/

    Only one point: I like what I have seen, but I am a bit (not much)
    disappointed that the final deckplans won´t be in Blueline, but in b/w. I
    feel deckplans should be in blueline to add a bit of realism, and i also
    think they look cooler in blue, than they do in black and white.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 14:48:34
    From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
    Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    At 10:30 PM 11/30/2000 +0000, you wrote:
    >At 15:49 -0500 30/11/00, bruce johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:
    >> > BTW, is there some rule that we (male) gamers must wear glasses and have
    >> > beards? Well, at least Loren has kept far more of his hair than I have
    ...
    >>
    >>Yeah, verily Brother! It is graven upon the Traveller Cult rules #14a
    >>subsection b para 2 under 'Appearance, Facial, Male thereof' ;-)
    >
    >Oh Dear.
    >
    >I suppose that means that Andy and I had better pack BITS up now, or
    >grow beards. Maybe Matt could take it over...

    You haven't gotten your copies of the 1999 Conclave Appendix 3?  You two
    are exempt.
    - --

    Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
    http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 17:12:12 -0600 (CST)
    From: Gregory Carl Kettler <gckettle@midway.uchicago.edu>
    Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    Wow!  That is all kinds of cool.  And here I didn't think at first
    that I was interested in buying them.  Dammit Loren, won't you let me keep
    just a little bit of my money? :)

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 10:28:00 +1100
    From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
    Subject: Re: Hex grid justification

    On Thu, Nov 30, 2000 at 11:27:57AM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
    > > Besides, a base base doesn't need to be in orbit in the life zone.
    >
    > Actually, it *does*. Or at least not too far out of it. Remember, to be
    > *usable* the base has to be at radiative equilibrium.

    The solar collector could be near 3K, especially if it's just a big
    mirror focussing sunlight onto the actual power converters.  The
    habitat itself, if at room temperature, would need to radiate roughly
    between 40-400 W/m^2 (depending on emissivity of its surface in far
    IR).

    Whatever power the habitat uses will be dissipated as heat, so how big
    would a habitat have to be before 1000 MW wasn't enough to keep it
    warm?  At 40 W/m^2 it should have no more than 25,000,000 m^2 of area,
    which would be a sphere 3 km across.  I think that's plenty big
    enough.  It could easily be smaller by making it less reflective,
    non-spherical, adding radiator surfaces, or lowering power use.

    > Actually, the IR emissions would make any habitable base stand out
    > like a neon sign against the 3 K background of space.

    Yes, all power used must be radiated somewhere.  Also, far-IR photons
    are very low energy, so there are lots of them to detect.  Carrying
    out the same calculation as I did for neutrinos, there would be about
    2x10^20 of them per joule.  At 100 AU (probably about the practical
    upper limit for distance from a star), that would be 70/m^2 for the
    same 1000 MW of power use.  With only a 10m diameter collector that
    would be 7,000 photons per second.  So that isn't going to limit their
    detection.  Nor will resolution, which would be almost enough to
    resolve the *shape* of the solar array.

    I suspect the limit will come from how fast the detector can sweep,
    and that's not much of a limit at all.

    - --
    IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
    Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 10:35:43 +1100
    From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
    Subject: Re: Trade volume heresy

    On Fri, Dec 01, 2000 at 08:04:35AM +1100, Katharine Whitchurch wrote:
    > The key is to do big worlds first. The biggest world in the District is
    > Collace, so you calculate the Collace-Trin, Collace-Mora and Collace-Sword
    > Worlds runs.

    Yes, I agree completely.  The big worlds are by far the most
    important, and the trade routes are going to depend first and foremost
    upon where the Pop 9/A worlds are.

    > FWIW, Terry Mixon did the Spinward Marches, and I'm pretty sure he
    > did less calculations than that.

    I think the Spinward Marches has only about 90,000 system pairs.  Of
    course you can always just ignore most of them if you want, though be
    warned that with the GT:FT model doing so does skew the results a lot.

    - --
    IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
    Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 15:34:04 -0800
    From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
    Subject: RE: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    I haven't shaved since I got divorced.  I just use clippers a twice a week.
    Does a constant scruffy stubble count as a beard?  Otherwise, I may have to
    quit.....<before you have a heart attack, I'm just joking :) >

    Jesse

    "They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
    deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    - -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
    > [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Dominic Mooney
    > Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 2:31 PM
    > To: traveller@lists.ient.com
    > Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    >
    >
    > At 15:49 -0500 30/11/00, bruce johnson
    > <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:
    > > > BTW, is there some rule that we (male) gamers must wear
    > glasses and have
    > > > beards? Well, at least Loren has kept far more of his hair
    > than I have ...
    > >
    > >Yeah, verily Brother! It is graven upon the Traveller Cult rules #14a
    > >subsection b para 2 under 'Appearance, Facial, Male thereof' ;-)
    >
    > Oh Dear.
    >
    > I suppose that means that Andy and I had better pack BITS up now, or
    > grow beards. Maybe Matt could take it over...
    >
    >
    > Dom
    >
    > (JOKING! But we don't have beards ;-) )
    >

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 08:52:40 +1000
    From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
    Subject: Re: Hex grid justification

    > From: bruce johnson
    > We don't even really know what the local stellar neigborhood is like. We
    > know some of the near stars, but it's likely we don't know about far far
    > more of them. It's quite possible that when we finally _look_ for the
    > damn things, a star or stars closer that A. Centauri will show up...

    I'd been wondering about this.  Thanks for confirming the possibility.

    Presumably, though, we would have noticed a star bright enough to have
    liveable planets... <bummer>  <sudden vision of bad flying saucer movies>

    Mmm.  Nearby stars... <drool>

    Oh, and it also explains why we didn't notice the Vilani at Barnard's Star.
     We might have noticed them at Vland though.

    Alan Bradley
    alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 08:55:16 +1000
    From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
    Subject: Re: Hex grid justification

    > From: Qstor@aol.com
    >
    > What about the canon Imperial Research station on Pluto?
    >
    > Mike

    They, of course, are researching the technology required to have bases on
    worlds like Pluto.

    Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.  Now move along Citizen, there is
    nothing to see here.

    Alan Bradley
    alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 18:52:49 -0500
    From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Planetary Map Templates?

    Is there a nice planetary map template out there for download? I'd be
    particularly interested in one in a vector graphic format, so I could blow
    it up as big as needed; I'm only making a few planets, and I want to get
    pretty detailed. But anything will do.

    While I'm on the topic, is anyone aware of web-ified alternative templates
    (maybe from other games)? The "hexes-and-triangles" one is pretty cool, but
    I'd be curious to see other ways of approaching the problem.

    Cheers,
    Paul Drye

    _____________________________________________________________________________________
    Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 11:03:14 +1100
    From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
    Subject: Re: Trade volume heresy

    On Fri, Dec 01, 2000 at 08:30:43AM +1100, Katharine Whitchurch wrote:
    > Ahhh, the Grand Unified Traveller Trade Theory.
    >
    > I think you are wrong that it only needs to be done once - it needs to be
    > re-done every time someone disagrees with your interpretations, and is
    > prepared to do the maths and/or crunch the numbers to prove it :)

    Fair enough :^)

    > BTW, my original pass at the GUTTT was to set up a trade system, then by a
    > couple of zillion iterations adjust currency valuations so that all worlds
    > had a rough long-term trade balance.

    That sounds good.  I might have a go at that myself, since I have
    plenty of time and a fair bit of computing power available  :^)

    > Needless to say, it was goanna need some very heavy-duty computing, as it's
    > basically a Sraffa model of an economy with time and distance factors added
    > in :)

    That's where my lack of economics background starts to show up.  I'd
    need to do some digging to find out what a Sraffa model is and how to
    apply one.

    > Maybe. The key isssue is 'Is the economic infranstructure set up for jump-1,
    > jump-2 or jump-3 ?'. If the infrastructure is set up for jump-2, then jump-3
    > transport may attract quite a premium.

    The running costs of jump-2 and jump-3 seem to be very similar.  If
    jump-3 drives were much more expensive, then that would have an
    effect, since overall shipping costs seem to be dominated by the
    capital cost of jump engines.  Since the relative costs of jump
    engines depend on all sorts of other factors (such as exchange rates
    and effects of TL on production), it looks messy.

    > An irony of this is that jump-3 ships are often more useful on the fringes
    > of the Imperium, where the route flexibility provided by the higher jump
    > number allows you to dodge the more sub-standard facilities.

    Yes, this is what led my character in my current Traveller game to get
    a jump-3 ship.  There are too many places that either can't be reached
    with jump-2, or require refuelling at systems with class D starports.
    (The ship also has collapsible fuel bladders in the hold for travel up
    to 6 parsecs if necessary)

    > Ian Whitchurch (also a partner in crime with the McLean-Thrash gang)

    (Out of the blue question) Are you from Tasmania?

    - --
    IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
    Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 11:16:28 +1100
    From: Phill Webb <pwebbtrav@yarranet.net.au>
    Subject: Re: Cthulhu Traveller (was fifth frontier war)

    Simon Hibbs wrote:
    >
    > As for myself, I'm a deyed-in-the-wool heretic of the worst order. For
    > my next Traveller game I'm planning on using the Call of Cthulhu rules
    > as the core game engine. It's far more familiar to my players than
    > Mega Traveller (my favourite of the real Traveller versions), and I
    > find the Chaosium percentage based system very easy to run.

    Back in 94 at the Uni gaming club a friend of mine was running 'Call of
    Traveller' at the same time that I was running Trav using Cyberpunk
    rules. Those were great days for Traveller, half the club was playing in
    Traveller games.

    I've since switched to using Fudge for the character stuff.

    Phill

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 16:18:20 -0800
    From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
    Subject: Re: Planetary Map Templates?

    - ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
    To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>
    Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 3:52 PM
    Subject: Planetary Map Templates?

    > Is there a nice planetary map template out there for download? I'd be
    > particularly interested in one in a vector graphic format, so I could blow
    > it up as big as needed; I'm only making a few planets, and I want to get
    > pretty detailed. But anything will do.

    I think bloo has some on his website.  I'll try and find the URL.

    Tod

    ------------------------------

    End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3344
    ***********************************

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    From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)
    To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com
    Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3345
    Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com
    Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com
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    Traveller-digest      Friday, December 1 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 3345

    (R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
    All rights reserved.

    The following topics are covered in this digest:

    Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3343
    Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3343
    Re: Hex grid justification
    Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    Re: Deck plans
    Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3344
    Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    Re: Hex grid justification
    Re: Trade volume heresy
    Neat stuff in the mail...
    Re: Trade volume heresy
    Re: Trade volume heresy
    Re: Trade volume heresy
    Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    Re: Trade volume heresy
    Re: Trade volume heresy
    Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    Re: Trade volume heresy
    Re: Hex grid justification
    Re: Trade volume heresy
    Re: Hex grid justification
    Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    Seeking: Thomas M Price
    RE: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    Masses in the Universe
    Fun with ships (was Re: Newbie Idiot Questions)
    Re: Trade Volume Heresy
    Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    Re: Planetary Map Templates?
    Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3343

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 19:21:10 EST
    From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3343

    > I hope SJ Games does more...

    If sales of the first set justify it, we will do many more.

    LKW

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 19:23:45 EST
    From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3343

    In a message dated 30-Nov-00 2:51:51 PM Central Standard Time,
    owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:

    > Will the sheets in the GM's screen and in the Beowulf deckplans be the
    >  same?

    No, they will be different. Each set of deckplans will have a different sheet
    of CH

    LKW

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 17:26:22 -0700
    From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
    Subject: Re: Hex grid justification

    Alan Bradley wrote:

    >> From: bruce johnson
    >> We don't even really know what the local stellar neigborhood is like. We
    >> know some of the near stars, but it's likely we don't know about far far
    >> more of them. It's quite possible that when we finally _look_ for the
    >> damn things, a star or stars closer that A. Centauri will show up...
    >
    >
    > I'd been wondering about this.  Thanks for confirming the possibility.
    >
    > Presumably, though, we would have noticed a star bright enough to have
    > liveable planets... <bummer>  <sudden vision of bad flying saucer movies>

    Not necessarily.  A recent magazine article I read (in either Scientific
    American, Natural History, or Smithsonian, within the last month or so)
    talked about a project underway at NASA  called NSTARS. This is
    associated with the space telescope I mentioned; to look for nearby
    Earthlike planets, they have to know where to look. This project is
    going to try to create a more accurate catalog of the stars within 20
    parsecs of Earth. (Nice enough for the start of the Solomani Sphere,
    I'll admit)

    see: http://web05.arc.nasa.gov/nstars/index.html

    There is also RECONS: Research Consortium on Nearby Stars

    http://joy.chara.gsu.edu/RECONS/

    According to them, there should be, statistically speaking, 130 more
    stars within 10 parsecs than we know bout right now.

    Hmmm...gotta get our butts out to the belt and start looking for that
    Ancient relic^H^H^H^H^H^H "performing those investigations on improved
    gravitic drives"

    > Mmm.  Nearby stars... <drool>
    >
    > Oh, and it also explains why we didn't notice the Vilani at Barnard's Star.
    >  We might have noticed them at Vland though.

    - --
    Bruce Johnson
    University of Arizona
    College of Pharmacy
    Information Technology Group

    Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 13:29:35 +1300
    From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
    Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    On 30 Nov 00, at 12:21, bruce johnson wrote:

    > > BTW, is there some rule that we (male) gamers must wear glasses and have
    > > beards? Well, at least Loren has kept far more of his hair than I have ...

    > Yeah, verily Brother! It is graven upon the Traveller Cult rules #14a
    > subsection b para 2 under 'Appearance, Facial, Male thereof' ;-)

    Darn, and I just shaved. And what have we learnt? Always read the TML
    before engaging in personal grooming. At least I've still got the glasses.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 19:27:44 EST
    From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Deck plans

    > BTW, is there some rule that we (male) gamers must wear glasses and have
    >  beards?

    Article seven, section three: 1 "Required Appearance"

    > Well, at least Loren has kept far more of his hair than I have ...

    Every one of my male siblings is 100-watt softwhite bald . . .

    LKW

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 19:30:17 EST
    From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3344

    David,

    > Loren? *Please* ask SJG to publish deckplans for all those
    >  in the CT supplement "Trader and Gunboats". Please?

    Since I'm the one who proposes subjects for the deck plans, this is fairly
    easy.

    LKW

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 17:31:32 -0700
    From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
    Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    Douglas E. Berry wrote:

    > At 10:30 PM 11/30/2000 +0000, you wrote:
    >
    >> At 15:49 -0500 30/11/00, bruce johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:
    >>
    >>>> BTW, is there some rule that we (male) gamers must wear glasses and have
    >>>> beards? Well, at least Loren has kept far more of his hair than I have
    >>>
    > ...
    >
    >>> Yeah, verily Brother! It is graven upon the Traveller Cult rules #14a
    >>> subsection b para 2 under 'Appearance, Facial, Male thereof' ;-)
    >>
    >> Oh Dear.
    >>
    >> I suppose that means that Andy and I had better pack BITS up now, or
    >> grow beards. Maybe Matt could take it over...
    >
    >
    > You haven't gotten your copies of the 1999 Conclave Appendix 3?  You two
    > are exempt.

    Yeah, except there are many who consider that those who follow  Appendix
    3 to be her-less-tics ;-P

    - --
    Bruce Johnson
    University of Arizona
    College of Pharmacy
    Information Technology Group

    Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 18:34:28 -0600
    From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Hex grid justification

    > Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.  Now move along Citizen, there is
    > nothing to see here.

    That's right. These aren't the pseudo-biological 'droids you're looking for,
    either!

    - -J. Jensen

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 16:36:56 -0800 (PST)
    From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
    Subject: Re: Trade volume heresy

    Timothy Little writes:

    > I think the Spinward Marches has only about 90,000 system pairs.  Of
    > course you can always just ignore most of them if you want, though be
    > warned that with the GT:FT model doing so does skew the results a lot.

    Actually, if you simply drop all routes beyond about 50 parsecs, most maps
    aren't much changed.  A WTN-6.5 (maximum) world at 50 pc won't produce any
    more trade than a WTN-5.5 world at 20, and the odds of no WTN 5.5 world within
    20 pc for any world in a settled sector is essentially nil.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 19:32:58 -0500
    From: knightsky@juno.com
    Subject: Neat stuff in the mail...

    Heh.

    Just got in a package today that I've been waiting for, which includes:

    Traveller (classic) Books 1-5
    Supplement 3
    JTAS 7
    Best of JTAS 1

    All for only a shade over $10, plus shipping.

    Sometimes, I love being me :-)

    Perry (who obviously likes to brag when he gets a good deal)
    "In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."

    ________________________________________________________________
    GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
    Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
    Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
    http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 11:52:35 +1100
    From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
    Subject: Re: Trade volume heresy

    On Thu, Nov 30, 2000 at 04:36:56PM -0800, Anthony Jackson wrote:
    > Timothy Little writes:
    >
    > > I think the Spinward Marches has only about 90,000 system pairs.  Of
    > > course you can always just ignore most of them if you want, though be
    > > warned that with the GT:FT model doing so does skew the results a lot.
    >
    > Actually, if you simply drop all routes beyond about 50 parsecs,

    Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't sectors at most 40 parsecs in
    length anyway?  Dropping all worlds over 50 parsecs saves you nothing
    when calculating intra-sector trade data.  In fact, most worlds in
    neighbouring sectors are less than 50 parsecs away.

    The problem is that with an inverse-square model of trade and a linear
    marginal increase in number of systems, that the total of trade with
    distant systems is actually greater than the total trade with nearby
    systems.  If you exclude the distant systems you cut the total trade
    volume by a large amount.

    - - Tim

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 17:04:59 -0800 (PST)
    From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
    Subject: Re: Trade volume heresy

    Timothy Little writes:

    > The problem is that with an inverse-square model of trade and a linear
    > marginal increase in number of systems, that the total of trade with
    > distant systems is actually greater than the total trade with nearby
    > systems.  If you exclude the distant systems you cut the total trade
    > volume by a large amount.

    Actually, it pretty much works out that there should be equal total trade
    in each distance 'band'.  However, the long distance trade is sufficiently
    averaged out that you can pretty much ignore it, since the local trade is
    sufficiently representative of the total.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 12:14:06 +1100
    From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
    Subject: Re: Trade volume heresy

    On Thu, Nov 30, 2000 at 02:24:15PM -0800, Anthony Jackson wrote:
    > 3)  for every world, find all worlds within 4 pc (n^2)

    This should really be O(n) and easier than part 2, but I suppose it
    doesn't matter if you only have a few hundred stars to consider.

    > 4)  for every world, start 'walking' away from it on the jump routes, ending
    >     when it is no longer possible to create a BTN-8 route (n).

    It looks like the median WTN is about 4.5 or so.  Doesn't that mean
    that it would be possible to get a BTN-8 route out to 200 parsecs?
    Sure, technically it is O(n).  But it does look like you'd need to
    test systems up to 5 sectors away.

    A high-pop world would have BTN 8+ trade routes spanning the whole
    Imperium.

    - --
    IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
    Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 20:15:50 EST
    From: Qstor@aol.com
    Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    I pre-ordered one to keep up the sales... so SJG can publish all the
    deckplans in Supp 7 :)
    I'll just tell my non-gamer wife the the Illuminati took my money :-)

    Mike

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 17:19:35 -0800 (PST)
    From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
    Subject: Re: Trade volume heresy

    Timothy Little writes:
    > On Thu, Nov 30, 2000 at 02:24:15PM -0800, Anthony Jackson wrote:
    > > 3)  for every world, find all worlds within 4 pc (n^2)
    >
    > This should really be O(n) and easier than part 2, but I suppose it
    > doesn't matter if you only have a few hundred stars to consider.

    For a given world, it's O(n).  Test each world, and see if its close.  I
    suspect it could be more efficient.  It's significant when dealing with
    50,000 stars.
    >
    > > 4)  for every world, start 'walking' away from it on the jump routes,
    > > ending     when it is no longer possible to create a BTN-8 route (n).
    >
    > It looks like the median WTN is about 4.5 or so.  Doesn't that mean
    > that it would be possible to get a BTN-8 route out to 200 parsecs?

    Due to how I do sorting, a WTN 4.5 world can drop any routes beyond 5 pc,
    because if it has a route, the other world (which is larger) has already
    created that route.  However, WTN 6.5 worlds do generate routes out to 100
    parsecs, and should generate them to about 200.

    > Sure, technically it is O(n).  But it does look like you'd need to
    > test systems up to 5 sectors away.

    About, yes.  I did say it was the most expensive step ;)

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 12:30:26 +1100
    From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
    Subject: Re: Trade volume heresy

    On Thu, Nov 30, 2000 at 05:04:59PM -0800, Anthony Jackson wrote:
    > Actually, it pretty much works out that there should be equal total trade
    > in each distance 'band'.

    Yes, this is approximately correct.

    >  However, the long distance trade is sufficiently averaged out that
    > you can pretty much ignore it, since the local trade is sufficiently
    > representative of the total.

    I would argue the reverse: the local trade variations (i.e. <10
    parsecs or so) are a minor fluctuation of the total and can be
    ignored.  The granularity is already such that a factor of 3 can be
    omitted, and nearby trade will on typically be less than half of the
    global trade.

    Hmm ... this simplifies calculations a *lot*.  Just calculate the
    "distant average" and find a suitable trade route to carry it.  Add
    variations for traffic to local worlds with substantially higher WTN
    than the "distant average" if necessary or desirable.

    - - Tim

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 19:29:11 -0600
    From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    >I'll just tell my non-gamer wife the the Illuminati took my money :-)

    The The Illuminati? Is that some kind of off-shoot branch?

    - -J. Jensen
    ========================================
    "It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite
    reaction.'"
    - -Rev Bem
    _____________________________________________________________________________________
    Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 12:39:15 +1100
    From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
    Subject: Re: Trade volume heresy

    On Thu, Nov 30, 2000 at 05:19:35PM -0800, Anthony Jackson wrote:
    > Timothy Little writes:
    > > On Thu, Nov 30, 2000 at 02:24:15PM -0800, Anthony Jackson wrote:
    > > > 3)  for every world, find all worlds within 4 pc (n^2)
    > >
    > > This should really be O(n) and easier than part 2, but I suppose it
    > > doesn't matter if you only have a few hundred stars to consider.
    >
    > For a given world, it's O(n).  Test each world, and see if its close.  I
    > suspect it could be more efficient.

    Very much so.  I take it you generate global coordinates?  Group them
    into 4-parsec buckets and test stars only in its own and neighbouring
    buckets.  For 50,000 stars it would reduce computation by a factor of
    about 1000.

    > Due to how I do sorting, a WTN 4.5 world can drop any routes beyond
    > 5 pc, because if it has a route, the other world (which is larger)
    > has already created that route.

    OK, that's good.

    >  However, WTN 6.5 worlds do generate routes out to 100 parsecs, and
    > should generate them to about 200.

    Actually, WTN 6.5 worlds should be able to generate BTN 8 trade routes
    out to 999 parsecs.  That is, basically everywhere.

    BTN = 6.5 + 6.5 + 0.5 - 5.5 = 8

    - --
    IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
    Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 12:42:11 +1100
    From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
    Subject: Re: Hex grid justification

    Dear Folks -

    Bruce wrote:
    >Astronomers gravitate...

    ROTFL!

    - - Hyphen

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 17:49:27 -0800 (PST)
    From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
    Subject: Re: Trade volume heresy

    Timothy Little writes:
    > I would argue the reverse: the local trade variations (i.e. <10
    > parsecs or so) are a minor fluctuation of the total and can be
    > ignored.  The granularity is already such that a factor of 3 can be
    > omitted, and nearby trade will on typically be less than half of the
    > global trade.

    No, if you have an atypical population density within 10 parsecs you can
    easily wind up with dramatically more trade that would be expected based on
    the distant model.  This is particularly true for the solomani rim, which
    has a much higher average BTN than the imperium as a whole and as a result
    winds up with ungodly quantities of mostly internal trade.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 19:55:55 -0600
    From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
    Subject: Re: Hex grid justification

    david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:
    >
    > Dear Folks -
    >
    > Bruce wrote:
    > >Astronomers gravitate...
    >
    > ROTFL!

    Does that mean that comedians levitate?

    - --
    AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
    "Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
    Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List

    http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 20:20:48 -0600
    From: Brandon Cope <copeab@elc.net>
    Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:

    > On 30 Nov 00, at 12:21, bruce johnson wrote:
    >
    > > > BTW, is there some rule that we (male) gamers must wear glasses and have
    > > > beards? Well, at least Loren has kept far more of his hair than I have ...
    >
    > > Yeah, verily Brother! It is graven upon the Traveller Cult rules #14a
    > > subsection b para 2 under 'Appearance, Facial, Male thereof' ;-)
    >
    > Darn, and I just shaved. And what have we learnt? Always read the TML
    > before engaging in personal grooming. At least I've still got the glasses.

    While I have shaved off my beard on occassion (usually in the summer), I have
    *never* shaved my moustache off since I grew it after graduating HS -- I look too
    geeky without it.

    Oh, and I've spent all of three days of my life with a goatee -- they used to look
    evil but no just make me look like another generation Xer (though I'm slightly too
    old to be an Xer and too young to be a Boomer <sigh>).

    Brandon

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 20:00:00 -0700
    From: "J. Paul Sanders" <timmon@primenet.com>
    Subject: Seeking: Thomas M Price

    Does anyone happen to know, have an address, or email-address for Thomas M.
    Price? He wrote a few articles for Traveller in "White Dwarf" magazine back
    in the early 80's, and I assume he is British. Any information at all would
    be greatly appreciated - email me off the list please at: timmon@primenet.com

    Cordially,
    Paul Sanders

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 21:13:25 -0600
    From: ybrekp@mtco.com
    Subject: RE: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    <delurk>
    I guess this means those of us with wives are exempt from the mandatory
    beard clause?

    Kerby
    </delurk>

    Jesse wrote:
    >
    > Subject: RE: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    >
    > I haven't shaved since I got divorced.  I just use clippers a twice a
    > week.
    > Does a constant scruffy stubble count as a beard?  Otherwise, I may have
    > to
    > quit.....<before you have a heart attack, I'm just joking :) >
    >
    > Jesse
    >

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 22:41:19 -0500
    From: CatWhoLeaps <catwholeaps@mac.com>
    Subject: Masses in the Universe

    A question for all you knowledgeable astronomers:

    IMTU ships may only be precipitated out of jump space at the 100 diameter
    limit of a mass, which is sufficiently massive (at least 1000 times the ship
    mass). So jumping into deep space is out.  This has consequences for trade,
    military operations and such like which provoke the search for masses other
    than stars which can be used as staging points (whether they have readily
    available unrefined fuel or not).

    What other sorts of masses exist in the universe other than stars?  And how
    might you detect them at Traveller TL's?

    Things like:

    Cometary bodies: Already canon

    Brown dwarfs: Could you skim these or are they too hot? Gravitational
    lensing will find them rarely.  Could you detect them in IR if they were
    close?

    White dwarfs: Probably easy to find

    Black holes?

    Pulsars?

    Anything else interestingly exotic?

    A GM with some evil ideas,

    David Crew
    MT REF Trojan Reach 1120

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 22:31:12 -0500
    From: knightsky@juno.com
    Subject: Fun with ships (was Re: Newbie Idiot Questions)

    A late response:

    > You don't have to run ship-to-ship combats often, or at all, to have
    > fun with Traveller.  OTOH, I very often have interesting things take
    > place aboard the ships that are carrying the PC's from one system to
    > another.  Having the PC's isolated with a limited set of NPC's for a
    > week can be an excellent "vehicle" for adventure.  <g>

    Oh sure, once you get them on a ship, there's all sorts of havoc (er, I
    mean, 'fun') to be had with players, especially once you get them into
    jump-space.  Murder on the Beowulf Express, anyone?  And of course, I
    suspect most Trav GMs have tried to run the 'Alien' scenario at one point
    or another...

    That said, I really haven't had the massive desire to design or redesign
    the ships...  'off-the-rack' is usually sufficient for my purposes.

    Perry
    "In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."

    ________________________________________________________________
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    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 22:55:47 -0600
    From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
    Subject: Re: Trade Volume Heresy

    Leonard Erickson wrote:

    > > Which is one of Jim's points.  I can't do that without a scientific
    > > calculator.
    >
    > Sure you can. X^1.5 = sqrt(X^3)

    Squirt what?  I thought we were talking about math, not squirt guns.
    That Squirt X3 must be really powerful.

    :-P

    bloo

    P.S.  Unless I'm doing it for a grade to help get me into college,
    I'm no interpolating any square roots.  Sqrt(X^3) still requires
    a calculator for me unless it is 1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64, 81, 100
    or 144.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 22:59:50 -0600
    From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
    Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    Jesse Degraff wrote:

    > I haven't shaved since I got divorced.  I just use clippers a twice a week.
    > Does a constant scruffy stubble count as a beard?

    These days I would have thought you'd be clean shaven.
    That's a fire hazard!   ;-)

    bloo

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 23:01:54 -0600
    From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
    Subject: Re: Planetary Map Templates?

    http://portcaddo.com/bloo/traveller/Travmaps/

    10 formats, several of them vector, at two resolutions.

    bloo

    Paul Drye wrote:

    > Is there a nice planetary map template out there for download? I'd be
    > particularly interested in one in a vector graphic format, so I could blow
    > it up as big as needed; I'm only making a few planets, and I want to get
    > pretty detailed. But anything will do.
    >
    > While I'm on the topic, is anyone aware of web-ified alternative templates
    > (maybe from other games)? The "hexes-and-triangles" one is pretty cool, but
    > I'd be curious to see other ways of approaching the problem.
    >
    > Cheers,
    > Paul Drye
    >
    > _____________________________________________________________________________________
    > Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 23:04:21 -0600
    From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
    Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3343

    Can I get mine mounted on a metallic background so
    that I can hang it on a wall and have the Trav Cardboard
    Heroes I attach to magnetic bases stick to it?

    ;-)

    bloo

    p.s.  I really am going to hang some on the wall in
    my office.

    GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:

    > > I hope SJ Games does more...
    >
    > If sales of the first set justify it, we will do many more.
    >
    > LKW

    ------------------------------

    End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3345
    ***********************************

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    From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)
    To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com
    Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3346
    Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com
    Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com
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    Traveller-digest      Friday, December 1 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 3346

    (R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
    All rights reserved.

    The following topics are covered in this digest:

    The Core Route: New Items and Updates
    RE: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    Re: Masses in the Universe
    Re: Hex grid justification
    Re: Trade volume heresy
    Re: Fun with ships (was Re: Newbie Idiot Questions)
    Re: Masses in the Universe
    Re: Trade volume heresy
    Re: house rules
    Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    Re: house rules
    Re: Masses in the Universe
    Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3343
    RE: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    RE: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    RE: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    RE: house rules
    Re: Hex grid justification
    RE: Hours in the Day
    Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    RE: December fun shoot
    Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    RE: Beard/glasses (was:[GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described)

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 00:04:35 EST
    From: Clifford N Linehan <cnl.rubicon@juno.com>
    Subject: The Core Route: New Items and Updates

    Greetings All,
    	For those who have any interest in my project.

    Nov 28, 2000: New Items and Updates
          -007 / 032 : Kozhdanzhinz Sector. . . : New
          -007 / 031 : Flablenti Sector . . . . : New
          -007 / 030 : Setjefrshiatl Sector . . : New
          -007 / 029 : Kiafldliezhjol Sector. . : New
          -007 / 028 : Tsafrnchia Sector. . . . : New
          -007 / 027 : Ienjaz Sector. . . . . . : New
          -007 / 026 : Vedrabr Sector . . . . . : New
          -007 / 025 : Driaflfiazlats Sector. . : New
          -007 / 024 : Brianch Sector . . . . . : New
          -007 / 023 : Dliea Sector . . . . . . : Updated : Zhodani Client
    Worlds Designated
          -007 / 022 : Pofdriblnchitl Sector. . : Updated : Zhodani Client
    Worlds Designated
          -007 / 021 : Nevlieri Sector. . . . . : Updated : Zhodani Client
    Worlds Designated
          -007 / 020 : Tatlnjaie Sector . . . . : Updated : Zhodani Client
    Worlds Designated
          -007 / 019 : Bliatsiebl Sector. . . . : Updated : Zhodani Client
    Worlds Designated
          -007 / 018 : Favkranish Sector. . . . : Updated : Zhodani Client
    Worlds Designated
          -007 / 017 : Zhenzhbrivtlo Sector . . : Updated : Zhodani Client
    Worlds Designated
          -007 / 016 : Vikrvidrvria Sector. . . : Updated : Zhodani Client
    Worlds Designated
          -007 / 015 : Plontarbli Sector. . . . : Updated : Zhodani Client
    Worlds Designated
          -007 / 014 : Azhpliabl Sector . . . . : Updated : Zhodani Client
    Worlds Designated
          -007 / 013 : Prinjobliedl Sector. . . : Updated : Zhodani Client
    Worlds Designated
          -007 / 012 : Ia Sector. . . . . . . . : Updated : Zhodani Client
    Worlds Designated
          -007 / 011 : Zietssha Sector. . . . . : Updated : Zhodani Client
    Worlds Designated
          -007 / 010 : Proanz Sector. . . . . . : Updated : Zhodani Client
    Worlds Designated
          -007 / 009 : Tsebntsiatldlants Sector : Updated : Zhodani Client
    Worlds Designated

    Clifford Linehan - cnl.rubicon@juno.com
    http://herons-reach.homepage.com/traveller
    Developing Vlanchiets Qlom and the Core Route.

    ________________________________________________________________
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    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 21:02:33 -0800
    From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net>
    Subject: RE: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    :)~

    Jesse

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
    > [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Steve Daniels
    > Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 9:00 PM
    > To: traveller@lists.ient.com
    > Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Jesse Degraff wrote:
    >
    > > I haven't shaved since I got divorced.  I just use clippers a
    > twice a week.
    > > Does a constant scruffy stubble count as a beard?
    >
    > These days I would have thought you'd be clean shaven.
    > That's a fire hazard!   ;-)
    >
    > bloo
    >
    >

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 16:45:37 +1100
    From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
    Subject: Re: Masses in the Universe

    On Thu, Nov 30, 2000 at 10:41:19PM -0500, CatWhoLeaps wrote:
    > A question for all you knowledgeable astronomers:
    >
    > Brown dwarfs: Could you skim these or are they too hot? Gravitational
    > lensing will find them rarely.  Could you detect them in IR if they were
    > close?

    I expect you could skim them, or at least sufficiently small ones.

    Detection of brown dwarfs should be pretty easy if you can keep the
    detection equipment sufficiently cool.  This is a major pain close to
    a star, but should be easier out near the fringes of a system where
    equilibrium radiative temperatures are much lower.

    > Black holes?

    Look for an accretion disk.  It should be thing spewing buckets of
    X-rays and stuff.  If it doesn't have one, it could be *very*
    difficult to find.

    Note that the 100-D limit for a typical stellar black hole will not be
    very far; on the order of a few hundred km or so.  Escape velocity
    from that distance would be on the order of 0.1 c.  Within a
    millisecond, the gravity from the hole would pull the spaceship inside
    the 100D limit.  However, this doesn't matter very much because it
    would only be pieces of the ship and crew falling in after the 1000 G
    per metre tidal stress ripped everything apart.

    That's assuming that the 100D distance is calculated using the event
    horizon as the basic diameter.  A safer and probably more reasonable
    assumption is that 100D is an approximation, and the real safe jump
    distance is based on a fixed tidal stress.

    For bodies of roughly similar density, tidal stress is based on number
    of diameters, and most normal astronomical objects from asteroids to
    stars have densities in the same order of magnitude.

    > Anything else interestingly exotic?

    Hmm.  How about a protostellar nebula, with the mass of the sun but
    spread over a thousand AU?  Umm, actually, forget that.  If you take
    the 100D limit literally it would make that hex completely impassable,
    and if you use the 'tidal stress' version then there wouldn't be
    enough to form a "100D" limit at all.

    One question for canonical Traveller experts -- does it mention
    anywhere how big and dense something has to be to form a 100D limit?

    Does a billion-ton asteroid have a different 100D limit if it is
    hollow than if it is solid?  What about if it is composed of loose
    snow, compared with solid metal?

    Interesting questions?

    - --
    IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
    Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 21:18:23 PST
    From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
    Subject: Re: Hex grid justification

    In mail you write:

    >>Actually, it *does*. Or at least not too far out of it.
    >>Remember, to be *usable* the base has to be at
    >>radiative equilibrium. Radiator surfaces and reflective
    >>or asorbent coatings can change the distance where
    >>equilibrium is achieved at "room temp" by a fair
    >>amount, but the farther from the "natural" point for
    >>that temp, the harder it is to pull off.
    >
    > What about the canon Imperial Research station on Pluto?

    Either it warms the hell out of the section of the surface it is on
    (which will have "interesting" effects on Pluto) or it's well insulated
    from Pluto and throws a lot of waste heat into space.

    - --
    Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
     shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
    leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 21:28:40 PST
    From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
    Subject: Re: Trade volume heresy

    In mail you write:

    <snip>

    > 3)  for every world, find all worlds within 4 pc (n^2)

    > Step 4 is the most expensive on small to medium maps, followed by step 3.
    > For sufficiently large values of n, I would need to optimize step 3.

    Well as a first cut, if you are using "normal" Traveller hex numbering,
    you *know* that worlds within 4 pc must be within the range
    (X+/-4)(Y+/-4).

    And actually, I suspect that a "lookup table" would work well with any
    numbering system. You'd just need a second table to handle edges of the
    sectors.

    A second trick would be to "roll" the array containing "near" stars.
    That is when you move down one row on the map, you just shift the
    entries in the array by one row, so you only need to recalc one row of
    the table.

    You still get a hit when you reach the end of a column, but that
    happens *less* often as the area gets larger.

    - --
    Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
     shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
    leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 21:44:08 PST
    From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
    Subject: Re: Fun with ships (was Re: Newbie Idiot Questions)

    In mail you write:

    > Oh sure, once you get them on a ship, there's all sorts of havoc (er, I
    > mean, 'fun') to be had with players, especially once you get them into
    > jump-space.  Murder on the Beowulf Express, anyone?  And of course, I
    > suspect most Trav GMs have tried to run the 'Alien' scenario at one point
    > or another...

    Actually, I'd think it'd be more fun to run something that *looks like*
    the "Alien" scenario.

    - --
    Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
     shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
    leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 21:45:52 PST
    From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
    Subject: Re: Masses in the Universe

    In mail you write:

    > A question for all you knowledgeable astronomers:
    >
    > IMTU ships may only be precipitated out of jump space at the 100 diameter
    > limit of a mass, which is sufficiently massive (at least 1000 times the ship
    > mass). So jumping into deep space is out.  This has consequences for trade,
    > military operations and such like which provoke the search for masses other
    > than stars which can be used as staging points (whether they have readily
    > available unrefined fuel or not).
    >
    > What other sorts of masses exist in the universe other than stars?  And how
    > might you detect them at Traveller TL's?
    >
    > Things like:
    >
    > Cometary bodies: Already canon

    Well, there are a lot of "planetismals" out in the Kuiper Belt and Oort
    Cloud, and technically, they *aren't* cometary bodies.

    > Brown dwarfs: Could you skim these or are they too hot? Gravitational
    > lensing will find them rarely.  Could you detect them in IR if they were
    > close?

    With the sort of space-based sensors available at TLs not much above
    ours, brown dwarfs should be detectable from *at least* several parsecs
    away. I'm tempted to say from a subsector away.

    By definition they are giving off a *lot* of heat, and that means
    they'll show up quite well on IR sensors.

    Skimming could be a problem, but double check with Bruce. It can't be
    much worse than trying to skim a "hot Jupiter" type planet.

    > White dwarfs: Probably easy to find

    > Black holes?

    Unless you use the "jump limit is based on tidal forces" dodge, popping
    out at 100 diameters from a black hole is going to be fatal.

    > Pulsars?

    They are a "special case" of neutron stars. A "cold" neutron star would
    be hard to spot.

    And again, 100 diameters is *way* too close!

    A white dwarf will be unpleasant at 100 diameters.

    > Anything else interestingly exotic?

    A cooled white dwarf would be nasty, as it's hard to spot. But I don't
    think the universe is old enough.

    Note that neutron stars/pulsars can have planets!

    - --
    Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
     shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
    leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 17:16:02 +1100
    From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
    Subject: Re: Trade volume heresy

    On Thu, Nov 30, 2000 at 05:49:27PM -0800, Anthony Jackson wrote:
    > No, if you have an atypical population density within 10 parsecs you can
    > easily wind up with dramatically more trade that would be expected based on
    > the distant model.

    Why is this sentence prefaced with "No"?  I did say "typically" less
    than half, and explicitly mentioned that you would add extra if there
    are high-WTN worlds nearby.

    What I am trying to avoid is a planet with unrealistically low trade
    figures simply because the local neighbourhood is realtively small.

    In terms of BTN figures, the overall trade figure should be the
    *maximum* of local and "distant average" trade BTNs.

    - --
    IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
    Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 23:14:55 -0800
    From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
    Subject: Re: house rules

    Kurt Feltenberger wrote:
    >
    > At 01:31 PM 11/30/2000 -0800, you wrote:
    > >I should clarify that my aversion to house rules does not generally apply to
    > >role-playing games.  Role-playing games are not primarily about winning, so

    There are rules in RPGs?!?  I usually just roll lots of dice and make up
    the story as I go along.  :-)  As anyone who has played my "Another
    Twist of The Knife" RPG knows, it works.

    > I agree with regards to win/loose games.  We used to have that problem with
    > Star Fleet Battles and all the rule books and supplements.  It got to the
    ...
    > mandated that the baselines for any game was the edition that *everyone*
    > had access to.  Not exactly perfect, but it did work.

    I think that is an excellent idea, Kurt.  It does stop games--produced
    by certain companies who like to keep the balance of power in the favor
    of those who buy the most product--from becoming an expensive see-saw of
    who has the latest supplement.

    Kristian

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 07:06:48 +0000
    From: Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
    Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    At 19:16 -0500 30/11/00, "Douglas E. Berry"
    <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:
    > >>Yeah, verily Brother! It is graven upon the Traveller Cult rules #14a
    > >>subsection b para 2 under 'Appearance, Facial, Male thereof' ;-)
    > >
    > >Oh Dear.
    > >
    > >I suppose that means that Andy and I had better pack BITS up now, or
    > >grow beards. Maybe Matt could take it over...
    >
    >You haven't gotten your copies of the 1999 Conclave Appendix 3?  You two
    >are exempt.

    They must have gone missing in the floods and rail problems here.
    It's a relief to find it out though.

    Dom :-)

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 23:17:10 -0800
    From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
    Subject: Re: house rules

    Luther Martin wrote:

    > One difference with Striker is that is was intended for use with a referee,
    > so it's really more like the RPG than a board game. I'm not you sure that
    > you can play a miniatures game without a referee, since it's probably not
    > possible to cover every possibility in a clear and concise set of rules. The

    That is true.  We should have a referee--I should volunteer to do it
    more--I just don't want to cut anyone out from playing.  Even I like to
    get in there and throw random shots of artillery ALL OVER the table.  As
    pointless as it was, it was fun.

    Kristian

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 23:18:58 -0800
    From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
    Subject: Re: Masses in the Universe

    CatWhoLeaps wrote:

    > What other sorts of masses exist in the universe other than stars?  And how
    > might you detect them at Traveller TL's?
    ...
    > Anything else interestingly exotic?

    Man, after Thanksgiving, I'm sure I count as one.  How to detect?  The
    bathroom scale sure works.  ;-0

    Kristian

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 23:34:55 -0800
    From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net>
    Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3343

    GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:

    > In a message dated 30-Nov-00 2:51:51 PM Central Standard Time,
    > owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:
    >
    > > Will the sheets in the GM's screen and in the Beowulf deckplans be the
    > >  same?
    >
    > No, they will be different. Each set of deckplans will have a different sheet
    > of CH

    SOLD.... Sign me up.

    - --
    Evyn...

    We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
    For he today that sheds his blood with me
    Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so lowly,
    This day shall enoble his rank.

    Henry V - William Shakespeare

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 08:11:44 -0000
    From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
    Subject: RE: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    >
    > I had never realized just how big those ships were until now
    > ... I've never
    > really used miniatures, but this makes me strongly consider
    > it (I would like
    > similar plans of the 600-ton subisdized liner).
    >
    > BTW, is there some rule that we (male) gamers must wear
    > glasses and have
    > beards? Well, at least Loren has kept far more of his hair
    > than I have ...
    >

    I thought that beards and glasses were required for male *Traveller*
    players...certainly since I started playing Traveller I've worn my glasses
    more and shaved less. I remember discussing morphic resonance with my gf,
    concerning Traveller players (beards, glasses) and Unix programmers (beards,
    glasses, sandles). She has started to worry about me :)

    Dean

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 08:14:05 -0000
    From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
    Subject: RE: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: James Jensen [mailto:cheeb0@hotmail.com]
    > Sent: 01 December 2000 01:29
    > To: traveller@lists.ient.com
    > Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    >
    >
    > >I'll just tell my non-gamer wife the the Illuminati took my money :-)
    >
    > The The Illuminati? Is that some kind of off-shoot branch?
    >

    They're the secret group who ruled early-eighties band The The. :)

    Dean

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 08:19:27 -0000
    From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
    Subject: RE: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    >
    >
    > >Those look great! I might have to pre order one for myself
    > for Christmas!
    > >I hope SJ Games does more...I'd love to see a Type S....
    >
    >
    >     And, the Type T & Type C as well.
    >

    How about deckplans for an AHL? :>

    Dean

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 23:35:32 -0700
    From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
    Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    From: ybrekp@mtco.com <ybrekp@mtco.com>

    ><delurk>
    >I guess this means those of us with wives are exempt from the mandatory
    >beard clause?
    >
    >Kerby
    ></delurk>

        No, as per the 2000 revision, all Male Gamers, no matter what status,
    married or single, must either be:

            A. Bald with Glasses.
            B. Beared with Glasses.
            C. Husky with Glasses.

        There are no exeptions, other than the owners of FLGS.

        I bid you peace.

    Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
    ICQ # 8973001
    legate@futureone.com

    "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
    places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
    passes. Entil'zha Veni!"

    "I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
    USS Excaliber.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 01:36:36 -0800
    From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com>
    Subject: RE: house rules

    Kristian Miller wrote:

    > > One difference with Striker is that is was intended for use
    > with a referee,
    > > so it's really more like the RPG than a board game. I'm not you
    > sure that
    > > you can play a miniatures game without a referee, since it's
    > probably not
    > > possible to cover every possibility in a clear and concise set
    > of rules. The
    >
    > That is true.  We should have a referee--I should volunteer to do it
    > more--I just don't want to cut anyone out from playing.  Even I like to
    > get in there and throw random shots of artillery ALL OVER the table.  As
    > pointless as it was, it was fun.

    The way I plan to solve the artillery problem at DunDraCon is to allow each
    side a number of "registration points," the theory being that the artillery
    already knows where these points are, so that they can hit it faster and
    more accurately. In game terms, this means that you get a net +20 to your
    first roll (or some other modifier TDB), so you expect to be off by about
    100 meters from an RP. Maybe a net +18 if you adjust from a nearby RP or
    some similar thing. This both makes the artillery more useful and makes it
    more like REAL artillery.

    I don't think that anyone would mind being a referee every few months. After
    all, you get to think up the scenario and all of that fun stuff.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 01:21:07 -0800
    From: Gordon Horne <gordon.horne@home.com>
    Subject: Re: Hex grid justification

    >[snip] [T]o be *usable* the base has to be at
    >  >>radiative equilibrium. Radiator surfaces and reflective
    >>>or asorbent coatings can change the distance where
    >>>equilibrium is achieved at "room temp" by a fair
    >>>amount, but the farther from the "natural" point for
    >>>that temp, the harder it is to pull off.
    >>
    >>  What about the canon Imperial Research station on Pluto?
    >
    >Either it warms the hell out of the section of the surface it is on
    >(which will have "interesting" effects on Pluto) or it's well insulated
    >from Pluto and throws a lot of waste heat into space.
    >

    Insulation slows heat transfer, it does not stop it. Witness the
    severe problems encountered by any heated structure north of the
    permafrost line. Similarly, house fires peak around Christmas because
    people leave a fire in the fireplace all night around that season.
    Domestic fireplaces are not meant to be in continuous use. The fires
    aren't started by sparks or anything of that type, but by the slow
    seep of heat /through the insulation/ until the wooden structure near
    the chimney, /not/ in contact, reaches the flash point of the
    material.

    Any long-term base on Pluto would warm the hell out of the section of
    surface it is on. The effects on Pluto would be "interesting." The
    effects on the base could be catastrophic. What happens when then
    various components of Pluto's crust beneath the base reach "flash
    point?" Heh, heh, heh. Never let the players feel safe 8^)

    TTFN
            g

    "In space, no one can hear the referee's manic cackling."

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 22:31:54 +1300
    From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
    Subject: RE: Hours in the Day

    >Leonard wrote:
    > >>BTW, anybody know what the Latin is for "day" (as in 24 hour period,
    > >>not the opposite of night). I can see that we need *three* words:
    > >
    > > It's "dies".
    >
    > Damn. That won't work. Anybody know the Greek?

    Remember, it's said "Deeay"

    So you could call it a "deeay" or a "D.A."  and have everyone but a few
    historical scholars not know that it's supposed to be spelled "dies"

    Frankie

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 04:23:54 EST
    From: GypsyComet@aol.com
    Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    Brandon Cope wrote:

    > I had never realized just how big those ships were until now ...

     Evyn and I were at one point looking for a field large enough to park a
    stationwagon in, then use marker tape to rough out a Type S around it (with
    the car sitting in the vehicle bay). The number of useful fields was smaller
    than we were expecting...

    GC

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 22:54:54 +1300
    From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
    Subject: RE: December fun shoot

    > Okay, I'm changing all
    >
    >     "meson guns are unaffected by armour"

    It's all crap, though.
    When I stomped on a meson gun in my powered battle-armor, it was fer damn
    sure "affected"

    Frankie

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 11:59:17 +0200 (EET)
    From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
    Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    On Thu, 30 Nov 2000, bruce johnson wrote:
    > > BTW, is there some rule that we (male) gamers must wear glasses and have
    > > beards? Well, at least Loren has kept far more of his hair than I have ...
    > Yeah, verily Brother! It is graven upon the Traveller Cult rules #14a
    > subsection b para 2 under 'Appearance, Facial, Male thereof' ;-)

    Perhaps I should regrow my beard, then. Or at least stop shaving...

    Fortunately I got glasses - and a lot of hair...

    - --
    +++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
    <-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
    >-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
    <>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 10:04:00 -0000
    From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
    Subject: RE: Beard/glasses (was:[GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described)

    Hey Loren, are we going to see a JTAS editorial about this phemonenon next
    tuesday? :)

    Dean

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Mikko V. I. Parviainen [mailto:mvparvia@cc.hut.fi]
    > Sent: 01 December 2000 09:59
    > To: traveller@lists.ient.com
    > Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    >
    >
    > On Thu, 30 Nov 2000, bruce johnson wrote:
    > > > BTW, is there some rule that we (male) gamers must wear
    > glasses and have
    > > > beards? Well, at least Loren has kept far more of his
    > hair than I have ...
    > > Yeah, verily Brother! It is graven upon the Traveller Cult
    > rules #14a
    > > subsection b para 2 under 'Appearance, Facial, Male thereof' ;-)
    >
    > Perhaps I should regrow my beard, then. Or at least stop shaving...
    >
    > Fortunately I got glasses - and a lot of hair...
    >
    > --
    > +++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.
    > <++[>----
    > <-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++
    > ++[<<--->
    > >-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[
    > <<<---->>
    > <>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[
    > >-<-]<--]
    >

    ------------------------------

    End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3346
    ***********************************

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    From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)
    To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com
    Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3347
    Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com
    Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com
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    Traveller-digest      Friday, December 1 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 3347

    (R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
    All rights reserved.

    The following topics are covered in this digest:

    Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    Re: Trade Volume Heresy
    Re: Planetary Map Templates?
    Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    Re: Planetary Map Templates?
    Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    RE: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    BayCon 2001 Party
    RE: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    RE: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    RE: Beard/glasses
    Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    RE: Beard/glasses
    RE: Beard/glasses
    RE: Beard/glasses
    RE: Beard/glasses
    Re: Trade volume heresy
    Re: Planetary Map Templates?
    Re: Planetary Map Templates?
    Re: Planetary Map Templates?
    Grooming (was:Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described)
    Re: Masses in the Universe
    Re: Beard/glasses
    Re: Trade Volume Heresy
    Re: Beard/glasses
    Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    Re: Trade Volume Heresy

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 21:45:35 +1100
    From: Robert Houghton <rhoughto@one.net.au>
    Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    "Jones, Dean" wrote:

    > >
    > >
    > > >Those look great! I might have to pre order one for myself
    > > for Christmas!
    > > >I hope SJ Games does more...I'd love to see a Type S....
    > >
    > >
    > >     And, the Type T & Type C as well.
    > >
    >
    > How about deckplans for an AHL? :>
    >
    >

    Anyone need to wallpaper their house?

    Other Rob

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 00:08:24 PST
    From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
    Subject: Re: Trade Volume Heresy

    In mail you write:

    > P.S.  Unless I'm doing it for a grade to help get me into college,
    > I'm no interpolating any square roots.  Sqrt(X^3) still requires
    > a calculator for me unless it is 1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64, 81, 100
    > or 144.

    Check your Win98 CD. If you dig into it, I'm pretty sure you'll find
    QBASIC on one of the subdirectories.

    Or try:

    Start -> Programs -> Accessories -> Calculator

    :-)

    - --
    Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
     shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
    leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 00:11:04 PST
    From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
    Subject: Re: Planetary Map Templates?

    In mail you write:

    > http://portcaddo.com/bloo/traveller/Travmaps/
    >
    > 10 formats, several of them vector, at two resolutions.

    Is one of the vector formats HPGL?

    A while back I found out that my CAD program will import HPGL files, so
    I'm interested in "useful" stuff in that format.

    - --
    Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
     shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
    leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 07:55:31 -0500
    From: Eric Freitas <efreitos@tampabay.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    On Thursday 30 November 2000 21:20, you wrote:

    > > On 30 Nov 00, at 12:21, bruce johnson wrote:
    > > > > BTW, is there some rule that we (male) gamers must wear glasses and
    > > > > have beards? Well, at least Loren has kept far more of his hair than
    > > > > I have ...
    > > >
    > > > Yeah, verily Brother! It is graven upon the Traveller Cult rules #14a
    > > > subsection b para 2 under 'Appearance, Facial, Male thereof' ;-)
    > >
    > > Darn, and I just shaved. And what have we learnt? Always read the TML
    > > before engaging in personal grooming. At least I've still got the
    > > glasses.

    Remember all those gamer cartoons showing at least one bald guy with glasses?
    Well, that's me.  Although I wasn't the original inspiration :)

    - --
    Eric Freitas

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 08:50:18 -0500 (EST)
    From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
    Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    On Thu, 30 Nov 2000, Legate Legion wrote:
    >
    >     No, as per the 2000 revision, all Male
    > Gamers, no matter what status, married or
    > single, must either be:
    >
    >         A. Bald with Glasses.
    >         B. Bearded with Glasses.
    >         C. Husky with Glasses.

    Was (B) and (C)
    Currently only (B)
    Will be (A) and (B) in a few more years.

                                     - J. R.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 08:53:03 -0500
    From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Planetary Map Templates?

    >Is one of the vector formats HPGL?
    >
    >A while back I found out that my CAD program will import HPGL files, so
    >I'm interested in "useful" stuff in that format.

    If it can import HPGL 5, you should be able to convert almost anything into
    that format by setting up a phony HP printer on your computer, then printing
    to a file using that printer. HPGL is an interpreted page description
    language, so the resulting file should be readable by your CAD program.

    Cheers,
    Paul Drye

    _____________________________________________________________________________________
    Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 08:58:44 EST
    From: Qstor@aol.com
    Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    >
     >     No, as per the 2000 revision, all Male
     > Gamers, no matter what status, married or
     > single, must either be:
     >
     >         A. Bald with Glasses.
     >         B. Bearded with Glasses.
     >         C. Husky with Glasses.

    D) None of the above :)

    Mike
    <---- at 33, cant grow a beard to save his life

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 06:46:56 -0800
    From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
    Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    on 12/1/00 5:58 AM, Qstor@aol.com at Qstor@aol.com wrote:

    >>
    >> No, as per the 2000 revision, all Male
    >> Gamers, no matter what status, married or
    >> single, must either be:
    >>
    >> A. Bald with Glasses.
    >> B. Bearded with Glasses.
    >> C. Husky with Glasses.
    >
    > D) None of the above :)
    >
    > Mike
    > <---- at 33, cant grow a beard to save his life
    >
    Same here, but then I have much non-canon stuff in my games.  Clean shaven
    must be a sign of heresy.

    Tod
    - --
    When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend"
    - --
    Tod L Glenn
    webmaster@travellercentral.com
    http://www.travellercentral.com
    http://www.solsec.org
    http://www.grandsurvey.com
    http://travellerguns.com

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 15:37:10 -0000
    From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
    Subject: RE: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    Well, got mine on order...what I really want is a scout or the 400 ton
    Drakaran Trader <drool!>

    Dean

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Christopher Thrash [mailto:thrash@io.com]
    > Sent: 30 November 2000 10:52
    > To: traveller@lists.ient.com
    > Subject: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    >
    >
    > Check out today's Daily Illuminator for an advance look at
    > the forthcoming
    > /Beowulf/-class free trader deckplans from SJ Games.
    >
    > http://www.sjgames.com/ill/
    >

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 07:49:49
    From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
    Subject: BayCon 2001 Party

    This year's theme is going to be the Regina Port branch of the Tukera
    Lines' Admirals' Club.  A place for Tukera's exclusive guests to relax
    while waiting for their ship calls.

    BayCon is the San Francisco Bay Area's oldest science-fiction convention,
    you can read about it here:

    http://www.baycon.org/2001/index.html

    Everyone is invited to come out and take part in what was described last
    year as "the most aggressively color-coordinated party I've ever seen."
    Last year's surprise guest was John Groth, who came from the deepest swamps
    of Louisiana by Greyhound.  If he can do it, so can you.
    - --

    Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com
      http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html

    "But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is that I am now a
    perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague here is rapidly running out of
    limbs!"  - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 08:01:53 -0800
    From: "tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@bigfoot.com>
    Subject: RE: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    OMG.

    I am not a gamer.

    Guess I will sell all my stuff and become a religious leader.

    :P

    - -----Original Message-----
        No, as per the 2000 revision, all Male Gamers, no matter what status,
    married or single, must either be:

            A. Bald with Glasses.
            B. Beared with Glasses.
            C. Husky with Glasses.

        There are no exeptions, other than the owners of FLGS.

        I bid you peace.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 16:03:14 -0000
    From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
    Subject: RE: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    We've been telling you, if you spend more time with the RPGs and less
    playing Duke Nukem maybe your beard'll grow, and you're eyes go bad :)

    Dean

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: tsykoduk [mailto:tsykoduk@bigfoot.com]
    > Sent: 01 December 2000 16:02
    > To: traveller@lists.ient.com
    > Subject: RE: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    >
    >
    > OMG.
    >
    > I am not a gamer.
    >
    > Guess I will sell all my stuff and become a religious leader.
    >
    > :P
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    >     No, as per the 2000 revision, all Male Gamers, no matter
    > what status,
    > married or single, must either be:
    >
    >         A. Bald with Glasses.
    >         B. Beared with Glasses.
    >         C. Husky with Glasses.
    >
    >     There are no exeptions, other than the owners of FLGS.
    >
    >     I bid you peace.
    >

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 11:47:06 -0500 (EST)
    From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca>
    Subject: RE: Beard/glasses

    Well, I have it all: Beard, glasses, "stockiness" and long hair.  But this
    discussion has so far ignored a small but important subset of gamer: The
    clean-shaven and cadaverously thin type (with or w/out glasses).  There
    are many out there, I'd say they represent 10-15% of gamers, in fact.
    Let's not ignore these poor hairless retches, we all have to stick
    together despite gross physical dimorphism!

    Charles C., prototypical gamer...

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 10:47:12 -0600 (CST)
    From: Gregory Carl Kettler <gckettle@midway.uchicago.edu>
    Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    Now this is starting to make sense.  I don't have a beard, but I got started
    with TNE.  There must be a causal relationship in there.

    > >
    > > Mike
    > > <---- at 33, cant grow a beard to save his life
    > >
    > Same here, but then I have much non-canon stuff in my games.  Clean shaven
    > must be a sign of heresy.
    >

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 16:49:16 -0000
    From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
    Subject: RE: Beard/glasses

    I'm glad to say that I am in the process of transforming from one of these
    sad specimens to a robust and healthy gamer. Sadly my hair has to stay
    short. Curse the tidy office policy!

    Dean

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Charles Collin [mailto:charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca]
    > Sent: 01 December 2000 16:47
    > To: traveller@lists.ient.com
    > Subject: RE: Beard/glasses
    >
    >
    > Well, I have it all: Beard, glasses, "stockiness" and long
    > hair.  But this
    > discussion has so far ignored a small but important subset of
    > gamer: The
    > clean-shaven and cadaverously thin type (with or w/out
    > glasses).  There
    > are many out there, I'd say they represent 10-15% of gamers, in fact.
    > Let's not ignore these poor hairless retches, we all have to stick
    > together despite gross physical dimorphism!
    >
    > Charles C., prototypical gamer...
    >

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 17:10:29 -0000
    From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
    Subject: RE: Beard/glasses

    Dean Jones wrote:
    > I'm glad to say that I am in the process of transforming from
    > one of these sad specimens to a robust and healthy gamer. Sadly
    > my hair has to stay short. Curse the tidy office policy!

    Yes ... is there an  evoultionary  or  age  path  for  gamers?  I
    myself was a longish-haired cadaverous  with  glasses  type,  who
    morphed in a span of 5 years into a short-haired  overly-'robust'
    with glasses type.

    Perhaps Niven's Pak Protector is just an early description  of  a
    gamer's lifecycle.

    Regards PLST

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 17:09:36 +0000
    From: Rob Myers <robm@h2g2.com>
    Subject: RE: Beard/glasses

    Well, if your hair is considered part of the office, have a word with your office manager about the company paying for an upgrade. When they decline, offer to provide one for free. When they decline, threaten to tell  the shareholders that they're not being cost-effective and you'll be able to grow your hair as long as you like.

    - - Rob.

    On Friday, December 1, 2000, at 04:49 PM, Jones, Dean wrote:

    > I'm glad to say that I am in the process of transforming from one of these
    > sad specimens to a robust and healthy gamer. Sadly my hair has to stay
    > short. Curse the tidy office policy!

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 09:23:18 -0800 (PST)
    From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com>
    Subject: RE: Beard/glasses

    My buddy and I went to Origins in July.  I'm a Naval Reservist and in
    fairly decent shape.  He's a guy who works out daily.  I swear, we were
    the best looking guys there; unfortunately the average female gamer
    looks a lot like the average male gamer (minus the beard)...

    =====
    Gerry Harris
    **********************************************************************************************
    Æther Traveller — http://www.aethertraveller.com
    Soldier's Companion — http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html
    **********************************************************************************************
    "Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war" — Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1
    **********************************************************************************************

    __________________________________________________
    Do You Yahoo!?
    Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
    http://shopping.yahoo.com/

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 09:29:06 -0800 (PST)
    From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
    Subject: Re: Trade volume heresy

    Timothy Little writes:
    > Very much so.  I take it you generate global coordinates?  Group them
    > into 4-parsec buckets and test stars only in its own and neighbouring
    > buckets.  For 50,000 stars it would reduce computation by a factor of
    > about 1000

    Not sure I believe that, depends on implementation.  In any case, if it works
    out as a problem I can do it with a simple 2d array of integers (where the
    value at each location is the index number of the star at that location, if
    any), and simply test every star within + or - 4.  That will be O(n) though
    it will up memory requirements by a significant chunk.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 10:01:06 PST
    From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
    Subject: Re: Planetary Map Templates?

    In mail you write:

    >>Is one of the vector formats HPGL?
    >>
    >>A while back I found out that my CAD program will import HPGL files, so
    >>I'm interested in "useful" stuff in that format.
    >
    > If it can import HPGL 5, you should be able to convert almost anything into
    > that format by setting up a phony HP printer on your computer, then printing
    > to a file using that printer. HPGL is an interpreted page description
    > language, so the resulting file should be readable by your CAD program.

    And just how does Windows convert a raster bitmap to a vector image for
    output? Assuming it *can*, I'm not too sure the results would be worth
    the trouble...

    - --
    Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
     shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
    leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 10:23:02 -0800
    From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
    Subject: Re: Planetary Map Templates?

    - ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Leonard Erickson" <shadow@krypton.rain.com>
    To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>
    Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 10:01 AM
    Subject: Re: Planetary Map Templates?

    > And just how does Windows convert a raster bitmap to a vector image for
    > output? Assuming it *can*, I'm not too sure the results would be worth
    > the trouble...
    >

    Use Adobe Streamline.  As long as the original bitmap is at a faily high
    resolution, the results aren't too bad, and can always be fixed in
    Illustrator.

    Tod

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 13:34:51 -0500
    From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Planetary Map Templates?

    >And just how does Windows convert a raster bitmap to a vector image for
    >output? Assuming it *can*, I'm not too sure the results would be worth
    >the trouble...

    The obvious solution being "don't use a raster bitmap"!

    Download the .pdf version from bloo's site, download the free Acrobat Reader
    from Adobe's web site if you don't already have it, then print it from
    there. You'll need to fiddle with the driver for the phony printer a bit
    (since, to the best of my knowledge, Acrobat Reader doesn't have an explicit
    "print to file" option), but that should do the trick.

    Cheers,
    Paul Drye

    _____________________________________________________________________________________
    Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 11:03:40 -0800
    From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com>
    Subject: Grooming (was:Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described)

    >From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
    >Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    >
    >On 30 Nov 00, at 12:21, bruce johnson wrote:
    >
    >>> BTW, is there some rule that we (male) gamers must wear glasses and
    >>>have
    >>> beards? Well, at least Loren has kept far more of his hair than I
    >>>have ...
    >
    >> Yeah, verily Brother! It is graven upon the Traveller Cult rules #14a
    >> subsection b para 2 under 'Appearance, Facial, Male thereof' ;-)
    >
    >Darn, and I just shaved. And what have we learnt? Always read the TML
    >before engaging in personal grooming. At least I've still got the >glasses.

    	Darn - I just shaved too, but I've got a reenactment this weekend
    and you just _know_ the allies are gonna lob some gas at us.
    	Still have the glasses, though.  Oddly enough, I had to get glasses
    about three years after I started playing RPGs.  The most amusing thing is
    that when I got them, no one noticed; I guess everyone assumed I already
    wore them.

    	Rod Basler, COFIT
    - ---------------------------------------
    Disclaimer - It's not their fault, OK?

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 13:26:51 -0600
    From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Masses in the Universe

    > > Black holes?
    >
    > Unless you use the "jump limit is based on tidal forces" dodge, popping
    > out at 100 diameters from a black hole is going to be fatal.
    >

    I don't know if anyone else has thought of this, but since a black hole is a
    singularity (a point of infinite density), jumping in at the 100D mark would
    be still be jumping into the center (0D) of the thing, wouldn't it?

    > > Anything else interestingly exotic?
    >
    > A cooled white dwarf would be nasty, as it's hard to spot. But I don't
    > think the universe is old enough.

    I believe that these are called "black dwarfs". Either that or GURPS Space
    and every other astronomy text that I've read is totally wrong...

    - -J. Jensen

    P.S. If your looking to have fun with dwarfs, my favorite is the "Red"
    variety. ;-)

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 11:43:10 -0800
    From: "Acting President Thing" <thingunderthestairs@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: Beard/glasses

    You all must be aliens,

    As it is well known that humans can't grow beards in space.

    /Me No beard, no glasses (bu comming soon) and lotsa hair.

    G.D.D.
    Thing under the stairs,
    Minion of Shechemist & GothBunny,
    Grand Master of the Electron Flow.
    ===========================
    "An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made, in
    a narrow field." - Niels Bohr

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 13:58:44 -0600
    From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
    Subject: Re: Trade Volume Heresy

    Leonard Erickson wrote:

    > In mail you write:

    > > P.S.  Unless I'm doing it for a grade to help get me into college,
    > > I'm no interpolating any square roots.  Sqrt(X^3) still requires
    > > a calculator for me unless it is 1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64, 81, 100
    > > or 144.

    It *is* a game, you know. Do a back of the envelope interpolation.  The
    sqrt(312) is below 20 and above 16 (the two I know off hand), so I'd say
    it's about 18 and let it ride. <g>

    OTOH, a calculator that can do powers and roots isn't that expensive
    anymore.

    > Check your Win98 CD. If you dig into it, I'm pretty sure you'll find
    > QBASIC on one of the subdirectories.

    Oh, is QBASIC on the Win98 CD?  I didn't know, that's great news!

    > Or try:

    > Start -> Programs -> Accessories -> Calculator

    > :-)

    True, true! <g>

    Eris

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 14:09:07 -0600
    From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
    Subject: Re: Beard/glasses

    Charles Collin wrote:

    > Well, I have it all: Beard, glasses, "stockiness" and long hair.  But this
    > discussion has so far ignored a small but important subset of gamer: The
    > clean-shaven and cadaverously thin type (with or w/out glasses).  There
    > are many out there, I'd say they represent 10-15% of gamers, in fact.
    > Let's not ignore these poor hairless retches, we all have to stick
    > together despite gross physical dimorphism!

    And that just describes the women! <g>

    Eris,
        no beard (I finally figured out how to use a razor),
        no glasses (I *paid* for these contacts!),
        no long hair (Mine just bushes up into a celt-fro anyway),
        ...a heretic to the end!

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 03:15:52 -0700
    From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
    Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    From: Jones, Dean <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>

    >How about deckplans for an AHL? :>

        Yes please, as well as the Armored Cruiser from Fighting Ships.

        I bid you peace.

    Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
    ICQ # 8973001
    legate@futureone.com

    "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
    places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
    passes. Entil'zha Veni!"

    "I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
    USS Excaliber.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 08:40:17 +1100
    From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
    Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    On Fri, Dec 01, 2000 at 06:46:56AM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
    > on 12/1/00 5:58 AM, Qstor@aol.com at Qstor@aol.com wrote:
    >
    > > <---- at 33, cant grow a beard to save his life
    > >
    > Same here, but then I have much non-canon stuff in my games.  Clean shaven
    > must be a sign of heresy.

    Hmm.  Maybe a trend is forming.  Me too, on both.

    - --
    IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
    Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 15:43:17 -0600
    From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" <sdaniels@playnet.com>
    Subject: Re: Trade Volume Heresy

    Several nominee for Missing The Point Awards here.

    One of Jim Maclean's points was that you shouldn't
    need a calculator to calculator a trade route (though
    it will certainly help).

    I was re-iterating that point - which applies to square
    roots as well because most people don't even know
    what interpolation is.

    Eris Reddoch wrote:

    > It *is* a game, you know. Do a back of the envelope interpolation.  The
    > sqrt(312) is below 20 and above 16 (the two I know off hand), so I'd say
    > it's about 18 and let it ride. <g>

    Actually, it's my job now, too.  :-)

    bloo

    ------------------------------

    End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3347
    ***********************************

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    From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)
    To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com
    Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3348
    Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com
    Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com
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    Traveller-digest      Friday, December 1 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 3348

    (R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
    All rights reserved.

    The following topics are covered in this digest:

    Re: Beard/glasses
    Re: Trade Volume Heresy
    Re: Beard/glasses
    Re: Trade Volume Heresy
    Re: Beowulf deck plans
    Re: Deck plans
    Re: Trade Volume Heresy
    Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3347
    Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    Re: Beard/glasses
    Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    Re: Beard/glasses
    Re: Trade Volume Heresy
    Re: Trade Volume Heresy
    re: BayCon 2001 Party
    RE: Beard/glasses
    Keyboard Kill! (was Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described)
    Keyboard Kill 2 (was Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described)
    RE: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    Re: Trade Volume Heresy
    RE: Beard/glasses
    RE: Beard/glasses
    RE: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    Re: Beard/glasses
    Re: Trade Volume Heresy
    Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    SSDS question
    RE: Masses in the Universe

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 16:51:03 -0500
    From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com>
    Subject: Re: Beard/glasses

    Beard - check.
    Overweight - check.
    Bald - nope, hair is currently working its way over the gut in fact.
    Glasses - nope, despite reading manuals to all hours of the night I still
    have excellent vision.

    Sam

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 13:59:23 -0800 (PST)
    From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
    Subject: Re: Trade Volume Heresy

    Steve (Bloo) Daniels writes:
    > Several nominee for Missing The Point Awards here.
    >
    > One of Jim Maclean's points was that you shouldn't
    > need a calculator to calculator a trade route (though
    > it will certainly help).

    Unfortunately, calculating jump routes winds up being a large quantity of grunt work, best done by a computer, even within the rules from FT. This is an argument for finding a simpler way of doing it, though constructing a simpler
    method may be hard.

    There's irrational aspects to how FT works anyway.

    Consider two worlds, A and B; they are 10 parsecs apart, with trade X
    If you add a third world, C, which is 1 pc from B and otherwise identical,
    trade along the A-C route is also X, for a total trade between A and the BC
    pair of 2X.
    Now, if we instead double the population and GDB of B, since we're using the
    geometric mean, we only have 1.4X trade.

    So, why does taking the same population and splitting it between two worlds
    suddenly increase the total quantity of external trade by 40%?  Sure, trade
    between B and C should mean the total trade would be higher, but it isn't
    clear why external trade should be higher.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 17:07:24 -0500
    From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu>
    Subject: Re: Beard/glasses

    Hm.  This reminds me of the long thread a few years ago on the
    CONLANG list that revealed something like two-thirds of constructed
    language enthusiasts on the web are a) left-handed b) goateed c)
    bisexual-or-gay d) men, and close to 100% are at least two of the
    four.

    In light of *this* thread, as far as b) goes, perhaps there's just a
    link between CRT emissions and facial hair growth?

    Kenji

    >Beard - check.
    >Overweight - check.
    >Bald - nope, hair is currently working its way over the gut in fact.
    >Glasses - nope, despite reading manuals to all hours of the night I still
    >have excellent vision.
    >
    >Sam

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 16:15:21 -0600
    From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" <sdaniels@playnet.com>
    Subject: Re: Trade Volume Heresy

    Anthony Jackson wrote:

    > So, why does taking the same population and splitting it between two worlds
    > suddenly increase the total quantity of external trade by 40%?  Sure, trade
    > between B and C should mean the total trade would be higher, but it isn't
    > clear why external trade should be higher.

    Though Jim can speak to this better than I, theoretically, larger
    markets have less need for trade - they are more likely to be
    able to satisfy demand locally, while smaller ones are more likely
    to be dependent on trade because they cannot.

    bloo

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 17:20:14 EST
    From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Beowulf deck plans

    Bloo asks:

    > Can I get mine mounted on a metallic background so
    >  that I can hang it on a wall and have the Trav Cardboard
    >  Heroes I attach to magnetic bases stick to it?

    I suppose you could, but we won't be selling them that way.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 17:25:16 EST
    From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Deck plans

    > SOLD.... Sign me up.

    Go to warehouse 23, they'll be happy to do so

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 14:27:49 -0800 (PST)
    From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
    Subject: Re: Trade Volume Heresy

    Steve (Bloo) Daniels writes:
    >
    > Though Jim can speak to this better than I, theoretically, larger
    > markets have less need for trade - they are more likely to be
    > able to satisfy demand locally, while smaller ones are more likely
    > to be dependent on trade because they cannot.

    The problem is that worlds B and C, which are 1 parsec apart, could easily be
    argued to be a single market with respect to A, which is 10 parsecs away from
    either of them.  The problem isn't that worlds B and C have more total trade;
    they obviously do (for one thing, they trade with each other).  The problem is
    that they have more trade with world A.

    For an even more extreme case, if world B is suddenly balkanized, becoming
    10 different governments, does its interstellar trade suddenly triple?  If
    you treat each government as a single 'entity' it would...

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 22:29 +0000 (GMT)
    From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
    Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.4.10.10012011156070.15257-100000@gamma.hut.fi>
    Greetings dear hearts.

    Is there a deckplan on A4 - for those of us who DON'T use miniatures but
    would like to see the layout of the ship?

    And what are we female gamers supposed to wear? Beard-growing isn't an
    option! (My eyesight is OK too...)

    Hugs and kisses,

    Mexal.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 14:28:56 -0800
    From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com>
    Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3347

    Tim Little wrote:
    > On Fri, Dec 01, 2000 at 06:46:56AM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
    > > on 12/1/00 5:58 AM, Qstor@aol.com at Qstor@aol.com wrote:
    > >
    > > > <---- at 33, cant grow a beard to save his life
    > > >
    > > Same here, but then I have much non-canon stuff in my games.  Clean shaven
    > > must be a sign of heresy.
    >
    > Hmm.  Maybe a trend is forming.  Me too, on both.

    Eris wrote:
    > Eris,
    >     no beard (I finally figured out how to use a razor),

    Hmm, this is creepy -- I'm so heretical I use a homebrew ship design system,
    non-Jump FTL drive, and no Imperium whatsoever -- and can't grow a beard, only
    a few spots of hair resembling an upside-down smiley face (two patches on the
    chin and a weak mustache).

    - -Russell B

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 14:40:55 -0800
    From: "Acting President Thing" <thingunderthestairs@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    On Friday, December 01, 2000 2:29 PM
    Megan Robertson said,

    > And what are we female gamers supposed to wear?

    As little as possible.

    *ducking for cover*

    G.D.D.
    Thing under the stairs,
    Minion of Shechemist & GothBunny,
    Grand Master of the Electron Flow.
    ===========================
    "The only way to fight a woman is with your hat. Grab it and
    un."  -John Barrymore

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 14:42:25 -0800 (PST)
    From: Bernie McGeehan <einreb62@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Beard/glasses

    Beard? Check...winter protection...
    "Portly"?...yup....
    Glasses?...either wear them or walk into a lot of
    stuff.
    Hair?...meters of the stuff...have to lop off a few
    feet each morning, or I'll never be able to see at
    work...(glasses or not).

    =====
    "I don't know much about what I like, but I do know Art."	me @ the Rijksmuseum, Amsterdam (Terra/Sol 3)http://prattfall.tripod.com/index.html

    __________________________________________________
    Do You Yahoo!?
    Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
    http://shopping.yahoo.com/

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 22:44:22 GMT
    From: TML@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)
    Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    Brandon Cope <copeab@elc.net> writes:

    >BTW, is there some rule that we (male) gamers must wear glasses and have
    >beards? Well, at least Loren has kept far more of his hair than I have ...

    Do contact lenses count?

    Stephen
    (no beard either.  Sorry.)

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri,  1 Dec 2000 17:13:51 -0600
    From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@mail.elc.net>
    Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    From: "Acting President Thing" <thingunderthestairs@earthlink.net>

    >On Friday, December 01, 2000 2:29 PM
    >Megan Robertson said,
    >
    >> And what are we female gamers supposed to wear?
    >
    >As little as possible.
    >
    >*ducking for cover*

    Gee, and we guys wonder why so few women get into gaming ...

    Brandon

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri,  1 Dec 2000 17:15:37 -0600
    From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@mail.elc.net>
    Subject: Re: Beard/glasses

    From: Bernie McGeehan <einreb62@yahoo.com>

    >Hair?...meters of the stuff...have to lop off a few
    >feet each morning, or I'll never be able to see at
    >work...(glasses or not).

    I have Gallagher Syndrome -- really thin on top, but I can have long, thick hair on the sides and back -- kinda like a monkish Cousin It ...

    Brandon

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 17:21:44 -0600
    From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" <sdaniels@playnet.com>
    Subject: Re: Trade Volume Heresy

    Anthony Jackson wrote:

    > Steve (Bloo) Daniels writes:
    > >
    > > Though Jim can speak to this better than I, theoretically, larger
    > > markets have less need for trade - they are more likely to be
    > > able to satisfy demand locally, while smaller ones are more likely
    > > to be dependent on trade because they cannot.
    >
    > The problem is that worlds B and C, which are 1 parsec apart, could easily be
    > argued to be a single market with respect to A, which is 10 parsecs away from
    > either of them.

    Only at the abstract level of total credit value.  With that analogy, all
    trade can be considered a single market.

    > The problem isn't that worlds B and C have more total trade;
    > they obviously do (for one thing, they trade with each other).  The problem is
    > that they have more trade with world A.
    >
    > For an even more extreme case, if world B is suddenly balkanized, becoming
    > 10 different governments, does its interstellar trade suddenly triple?  If
    > you treat each government as a single 'entity' it would...

    If you're going to treat them as separate entities, which is fine,
    they have their own separate populations and possible tech levels
    to.  If the balkanized populations were even, and TL was the
    same, then each has 1/10th the population of B.  Determine their
    WTN (or CTN for "Country) based on Pop/10.  That is -0.5 from
    the WTN.  Next, do they all have the same starport?  Maybe, though
    not likely.  Might as well assume that all the countries share equally in
    the planet's trade classifications too.

    Amongst themselves, they will have different political allegiances
    so that is important to figuring their internal bilateral trade.  Also,
    you might want to figure in the costs of planetary transportation,
    though that might not be significant on this scale.

    As for A, it now has 10 customers instead of 1, though at lower
    levels.  Those 10 have to compete against each other for A's goods.
    That increases price and therefore total trade value.  Also, now
    there is likely, or at least plausibly, a significant need for redundant
    goods now.  And it probably won't be difficult to increase
    production as well.

    Say the BTN between A and B was 7 to start.  10M-50M
    Balkanized it's BTN 6.5 * 10; 10 * 5M-10M or 50-100M
    if you assume there is no hinderance to trade from the change.
    IMHO, there would be.  The Port factor, planetary transportation
    factors, TL disparities, etc.

    bloo

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 10:26:10 +1100
    From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
    Subject: Re: Trade Volume Heresy

    On Fri, Dec 01, 2000 at 02:27:49PM -0800, Anthony Jackson wrote:
    > For an even more extreme case, if world B is suddenly balkanized, becoming
    > 10 different governments, does its interstellar trade suddenly triple?  If
    > you treat each government as a single 'entity' it would...

    Yes, it's these questions that finally led me to reduce, and finally
    eliminate, the size difference modifier.  IMTU, trade is dependent
    upon the lesser world's trade volume alone.  (At least to within the
    granularity factor of 3)

    - - Tim

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 15:31:59 -0800
    From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
    Subject: re: BayCon 2001 Party

    >From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>

    >This year's theme is going to be the Regina Port branch of the Tukera
    >Lines' Admirals' Club.  A place for Tukera's exclusive guests to relax
    >while waiting for their ship calls.

    If it's set on Regina this time, maybe I'll come as Chief Inspector von Pong
    of the Regina Subsector Special Police instead of Mongo's Honorary Consul to
    Terra.  Tod Glenn should come down from Oregon, for sure, as his campaign is
    also centered on Regina.  He has rather a different spin on it than I do.

    - --Glenn

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 15:32:02 -0800
    From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
    Subject: RE: Beard/glasses

    Hmm, this discussion makes me think, "that's funny, you don't look like a
    gamer."

    I lost my glasses a month ago and seem to be doing quite well without them
    (my vision is not all that bad to start with -- I didn't get glasses until
    age 40 -- I even painted the trim on the VLRTs without my glasses (but I did
    use a stationary magnifying glass from the shark teeth)).  I have almost
    always had a beard, except when I became single some years ago, and had
    better success with the distaff while clean-shaven.  Now that I'm happily
    involved again, the beard is back, although sometimes it's just a goatee.
    When I was young I approached the cadaverously thin look; in my thirties I
    was, if not portly, a little too round in the middle, but I started taking
    better care of my body better about the time I shaved my beard, so I'm my
    shape is about what I want at the moment.

    "Oh, you play wargames, like on the computer?"  "Well, no, the computer is
    mostly just a database.  We really just sit around and talk and sometimes
    roll dice to add an element of chance..."  Glazed look; drifts away.

    - --Glenn

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 17:23:42 -0600
    From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
    Subject: Keyboard Kill! (was Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described)

    On 11/30/00 at 05:31 PM,  Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> said:

    >>>> Yeah, verily Brother! It is graven upon the Traveller Cult rules #14a
    >>>> subsection b para 2 under 'Appearance, Facial, Male thereof' ;-)
    >>>
    >>> Oh Dear.
    >>>
    >>> I suppose that means that Andy and I had better pack BITS up now, or
    >>> grow beards. Maybe Matt could take it over...
    >>
    >>
    >> You haven't gotten your copies of the 1999 Conclave Appendix 3?  You two
    >> are exempt.

    >Yeah, except there are many who consider that those who follow
    >Appendix  3 to be her-less-tics ;-P

    You finally got me! <g>

    I've LOL'ed, ROFL'ed, and G'ed, but you caught me just about to swallow with this one. Now you owe me a keyboard...<g>

    ....and a post in Akus! <bg>

    Eris,
       uncovered as being The Hair-less-tic!

    - --
    - -----------------------------------------------------------
    eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245
    http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
    - -----------------------------------------------------------

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 17:29:49 -0600
    From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
    Subject: Keyboard Kill 2 (was Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described)

    On 12/01/00 at 02:40 PM,  "Acting President Thing" <thingunderthestairs@earthlink.net> said:

    >On Friday, December 01, 2000 2:29 PM
    >Megan Robertson said,

    >> And what are we female gamers supposed to wear?

    >As little as possible.

    >*ducking for cover*

    Splort! Ka-bang!  That's twice in one afternoon...you gonna kill me! <g>

    Eris
    - --
    - -----------------------------------------------------------
    eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245
    http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
    - -----------------------------------------------------------

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 12:41:41 +1300
    From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
    Subject: RE: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    tsykoduk wrote :
    > OMG.
    > I am not a gamer.
    >
    > Guess I will sell all my stuff and become a religious leader.

    LMK how much you want for it all.

    <grin>

    Frankie

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 10:39:33 +1100
    From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
    Subject: Re: Trade Volume Heresy

    On Fri, Dec 01, 2000 at 05:21:44PM -0600, Steve (Bloo) Daniels wrote:
    > Amongst themselves, they will have different political allegiances
    > so that is important to figuring their internal bilateral trade.

    Internal trade is irrelevant -- it's included in GWP but not BTN with
    other planets.

    >  Also, you might want to figure in the costs of planetary
    > transportation, though that might not be significant on this scale.

    Definitely not.  Besides, planetary transportation costs apply
    regardless.

    > As for A, it now has 10 customers instead of 1, though at lower
    > levels.

    No, it probably still has the same 50,000 or so customers -- just with
    different governments.

    >  Those 10 have to compete against each other for A's goods.
    > That increases price and therefore total trade value.

    Even if true (and I doubt it), it would also decrease the value of B's
    trade goods for the same reason.

    - - Tim

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 12:48:22 +1300
    From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
    Subject: RE: Beard/glasses

    Gerry Harris wrote :
    >
    > My buddy and I went to Origins in July.  I'm a Naval Reservist and in
    > fairly decent shape.  He's a guy who works out daily.  I swear, we were
    > the best looking guys there; unfortunately the average female gamer
    > looks a lot like the average male gamer (minus the beard)...

    Or in some cases, not without the beard. <grin>

    OTOH, I also game with a couple of gals who, for the last roleplaying
    weekend we organized, which always has one major live, in-costume, game on
    the Saturday night, wore costumes like whats-her-face-multi-pass from "Fifth
    Element" and Trinity from Matrix, and made them look real good.

    Frankie

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 13:04:14 +1300
    From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
    Subject: RE: Beard/glasses

    Kenji Schwarz wrote:
    > Hm.  This reminds me of the long thread a few years ago on the
    > CONLANG list that revealed something like two-thirds of constructed
    > language enthusiasts on the web are a) left-handed b) goateed c)
    > bisexual-or-gay d) men, and close to 100% are at least two of the
    > four.

    Tthing is, these sorts of ranges can be very broad.

    For instance, you _could_ describe me as bi-sexual, as during my
    experimentation phase (back in the seventies) I did have sexual encounters
    with at least two men, and I have no problem finding a male body "beautiful"
    or with physical contact with men, including kissing, though that usually
    only happens when I'm either playing a role, or on some sort of emotional
    high.
    (You've seen English soccer players ?)

    But I've been married since 1981, and have basically had no other sexual
    partners since then, one could also say that I wasn't bi-sexual.

    Also, you could say I had a goatee, as while I maintain an almost
    non-existent line of hair between sideburns and "beard" it's hard to see and
    it looks like I have a goatee.

    I suspaect these sorts of broad categories need to have limits set on them
    to decide whether people fall into them or not.

    > In light of *this* thread, as far as b) goes, perhaps there's just a
    > link between CRT emissions and facial hair growth?

    Actually, it's probably a sub-conscious attempt to sheild our faces from CRT
    emissions.

    Frankie

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 13:20:28 +1300
    From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
    Subject: RE: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    Megan Robertson wrote :

    > And what are we female gamers supposed to wear?

    <Ahem> I will not give in, I will not give in...

    It's so hard for a toon to resist a straight line like that.

    > Beard-growing isn't an option!

    Of course it is.
    Just take a few too many steroids, and don't shave.

    > (My eyesight is OK too...)

    We can deal with that also.
    Try unsheilded solar observation for a few hours.

    Frankie

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 16:20:38 -0800
    From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
    Subject: Re: Beard/glasses

    On Fri, 1 Dec 2000 09:23:18 -0800 (PST), Gerry Harris
    <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com> wrote:

    >My buddy and I went to Origins in July.  I'm a Naval Reservist and in
    >fairly decent shape.  He's a guy who works out daily.  I swear, we were
    >the best looking guys there; unfortunately the average female gamer
    >looks a lot like the average male gamer (minus the beard)...

    And sometimes not even that... :)

    Actually, I know several quite attractive female gamers.  Pity that all of
    them are either married or ten years younger than myself.

    Put me down for Husky with Glasses (and non-Bearded only through daily
    scraping).

    - --------------
    Kelly St.Clair     "Homines est! Dici omnes! Soylens viridis HOMINES EST!"
    kellys@efn.org

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 19:30:08 -0600
    From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" <sdaniels@playnet.com>
    Subject: Re: Trade Volume Heresy

    Help!  Jim! Chris!  I don't have the words
    to convince them or even explain what I
    understand!

    bloo

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 19:39:57 -0600
    From: Charles R Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net>
    Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    Douglas E. Berry wrote:

    > At 10:30 PM 11/30/2000 +0000, you wrote:
    >
    >> At 15:49 -0500 30/11/00, bruce johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
    wrote:
    >>
    >>>> BTW, is there some rule that we (male) gamers must wear glasses and
    have
    >>>> beards? Well, at least Loren has kept far more of his hair than I
    have
    >>>
    > ...
    >
    >>> Yeah, verily Brother! It is graven upon the Traveller Cult rules
    #14a
    >>> subsection b para 2 under 'Appearance, Facial, Male thereof' ;-)
    >>
    >> Oh Dear.
    >>
    >> I suppose that means that Andy and I had better pack BITS up now, or
    >> grow beards. Maybe Matt could take it over...
    >
    >
    > You haven't gotten your copies of the 1999 Conclave Appendix 3?  You
    two
    > are exempt.

    That's why I can't find a gaming group,  Does someone have an extra pair
    of glasses to loan me??

    Charles H

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 18:29:57 -0700
    From: "Joseph Kimball" <jekimball@prodigy.net>
    Subject: SSDS question

    In the T4 SSDS, what is the difference between Basic and Standard life
    support?  Does Standard life support replace Basic?

    I have assumed so far that it is equivalent to the Basic (sealed, air,
    water, good for ~8 hrs) and Extended (adds food and waste/recycling, and
    replaces Basic) life support in FF&Sv1 p77.
    - - Joseph

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 21:53:18 -0500
    From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com>
    Subject: RE: Masses in the Universe

    >One question for canonical Traveller experts -- does it mention
    >anywhere how big and dense something has to be to form a 100D limit?
    >
    >Does a billion-ton asteroid have a different 100D limit if it is
    >hollow than if it is solid?  What about if it is composed of loose
    >snow, compared with solid metal?
    >
    >Interesting questions?
    >
    >
    Marc has said that any object bigger that the ship that is jumping can cause
    sufficient gravitational effect to precipitate a ship out of jump. So a
    Tigress can cause a Beowulf that crosses it's path to precipitate out of
    jump.

    GT2e says that the 100D limit is a rule of thumb rather than an absolute
    limit.

    Terry C
    All that is Gold does not glitter
    Not all who travel are lost

    ------------------------------

    End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3348
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    From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)
    To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com
    Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3349
    Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com
    Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com
    Errors-To: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com
    Precedence: bulk

    Traveller-digest     Saturday, December 2 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3349

    (R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
    All rights reserved.

    The following topics are covered in this digest:

    Re: BayCon 2001 Party
    RE: BayCon 2001 Party
    Re: Masses in the Universe
    Re: BayCon 2001 Party
    Re: BayCon 2001 Party
    Re: SSDS question
    Re: Planetary Map Templates?
    Re: house rules
    Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3346
    Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3346
    RE: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    MegaTraveller 1 & 2 Help
    Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    Re: Beard/glasses
    Re: Beard/glasses
    Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    Re: Beard/glasses
    Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
    Re: Beard/glasses
    RE: Beard/glasses
    RE: Beard/glasses

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 19:00:21 -0800
    From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
    Subject: Re: BayCon 2001 Party

    on 12/1/00 3:31 PM, Glenn M. Goffin at gmgoffin@earthlink.net wrote:

    >> From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
    >
    >> This year's theme is going to be the Regina Port branch of the Tukera
    >> Lines' Admirals' Club.  A place for Tukera's exclusive guests to relax
    >> while waiting for their ship calls.
    >
    > If it's set on Regina this time, maybe I'll come as Chief Inspector von Pong
    > of the Regina Subsector Special Police instead of Mongo's Honorary Consul to
    > Terra.  Tod Glenn should come down from Oregon, for sure, as his campaign is
    > also centered on Regina.  He has rather a different spin on it than I do.
    >
    > --Glenn
    >
    >

    We will try, but it's only a month before NorWesCon.  What hotel is BayCon
    being held at?  I didn't see anything on their website.

    Tod
    - --
    When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend"
    - --
    Tod L Glenn
    webmaster@travellercentral.com
    http://www.travellercentral.com
    http://www.solsec.org
    http://www.grandsurvey.com
    http://travellerguns.com

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 19:01:24 -0800
    From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net>
    Subject: RE: BayCon 2001 Party

    It's at the Doubletree in San Jose, formerly the Red Lion.

    Jesse

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
    > [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Tod Glenn
    > Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 7:00 PM
    > To: traveller@lists.ient.com
    > Subject: Re: BayCon 2001 Party
    >
    >
    > on 12/1/00 3:31 PM, Glenn M. Goffin at gmgoffin@earthlink.net wrote:
    >
    > >> From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
    > >
    > >> This year's theme is going to be the Regina Port branch of the Tukera
    > >> Lines' Admirals' Club.  A place for Tukera's exclusive guests to relax
    > >> while waiting for their ship calls.
    > >
    > > If it's set on Regina this time, maybe I'll come as Chief
    > Inspector von Pong
    > > of the Regina Subsector Special Police instead of Mongo's
    > Honorary Consul to
    > > Terra.  Tod Glenn should come down from Oregon, for sure, as
    > his campaign is
    > > also centered on Regina.  He has rather a different spin on it
    > than I do.
    > >
    > > --Glenn
    > >
    > >
    >
    > We will try, but it's only a month before NorWesCon.  What hotel is BayCon
    > being held at?  I didn't see anything on their website.
    >
    > Tod
    > --
    > When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend"
    > --
    > Tod L Glenn
    > webmaster@travellercentral.com
    > http://www.travellercentral.com
    > http://www.solsec.org
    > http://www.grandsurvey.com
    > http://travellerguns.com
    >

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 14:31:35 +1100
    From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
    Subject: Re: Masses in the Universe

    On Fri, Dec 01, 2000 at 09:53:18PM -0500, Terry Carlino wrote:
    > GT2e says that the 100D limit is a rule of thumb rather than an absolute
    > limit.

    Sounds good.  I'll go for the gravitational curvature theory then.

    - - Tim

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 19:36:08
    From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
    Subject: Re: BayCon 2001 Party

    At 07:00 PM 12/1/2000 -0800, you wrote:

    >We will try, but it's only a month before NorWesCon.  What hotel is BayCon
    >being held at?  I didn't see anything on their website.

    San Jose Doubletree Hotel, near the airport.
    - --

    Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
    http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 21:44:55 -0600
    From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
    Subject: Re: BayCon 2001 Party

    "Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
    >
    > At 07:00 PM 12/1/2000 -0800, you wrote:
    >
    > >We will try, but it's only a month before NorWesCon.  What hotel is BayCon
    > >being held at?  I didn't see anything on their website.
    >
    > San Jose Doubletree Hotel, near the airport.

    Sadly, as National Guard duty calls, I don't think I'll be able to make
    a repeat appearance.  C'est la guerre*.

    *Quote attributed to the Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys upon their
    nation's capitulation to a German Boy Scout troop.

    - --
    AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
    "Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
    Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List

    http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 21:45:16 -0600
    From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
    Subject: Re: SSDS question

    Joseph Kimball wrote:
    >
    > In the T4 SSDS, what is the difference between Basic and Standard life
    > support?  Does Standard life support replace Basic?

    In FF&S2 (the definitive [though errata-filled] T4 tech reference), the
    various life support systems are:

    Minimal:  Sealed environment, heat, and light.  Air is open-loop.
    Normal duration: 3 hours.

    Basic:  Heat, light, and short-term purified air.  Normal duration: 12
    hours.

    Standard:  Light, thermal control, closed-loop water, and
    semi-closed-loop air.  Food is carried for appropriate duration.  This
    is the standard life support system for starships.  Normal duration: 2
    weeks.

    Extended:  Light, thermal control, and closed-loop air and water.  Food
    is carried for desired duration.  Nearly all AuricTech designs use this
    system, with warships carrying at least 26 weeks of rations.  Normal
    duration: Indefinite (limited by carried food).

    Endurance:  Full closed-loop recycling of air, water, and food (using
    hydro/aeroponics, aquaculture, and/or carniculture, depending on
    subtype).  Endurance systems are designed to support a set number of
    crew/passengers.  Normal duration: Indefinite.

    Vehicles intended for anything beyond routine orbital work should have
    at least Standard life support.

    <<snip>>

    - --
    AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
    "Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
    Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List

    http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 21:47:04 -0600
    From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
    Subject: Re: Planetary Map Templates?

    Leonard Erickson wrote:

    > In mail you write:
    >
    > > http://portcaddo.com/bloo/traveller/Travmaps/
    > >
    > > 10 formats, several of them vector, at two resolutions.
    >
    > Is one of the vector formats HPGL?

    No.  But it's just a click away if you want to check for
    yourself.  :-P

    bloo

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 20:09:46 -0800
    From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
    Subject: Re: house rules

    Luther Martin wrote:

    > The way I plan to solve the artillery problem at DunDraCon is to allow each
    > side a number of "registration points," the theory being that the artillery
    ...
    > 100 meters from an RP. Maybe a net +18 if you adjust from a nearby RP or
    > some similar thing. This both makes the artillery more useful and makes it
    > more like REAL artillery.

    Good idea.  Write the +DM into the scenario, and maybe you can have
    adjust the initial +DM for tech level (writers judgement).

    > I don't think that anyone would mind being a referee every few months. After
    > all, you get to think up the scenario and all of that fun stuff.

    True.

    Kristian

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 23:10:23 -0700
    From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
    Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3346

    At 05:05 am 12/1/00 -0500, you wrote:

    >Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 23:35:32 -0700
    >From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
    >Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    >><delurk>
    >>I guess this means those of us with wives are exempt from the
    mandatory
    >>beard clause?
    >>
    >>Kerby
    >></delurk>
    >
    >    No, as per the 2000 revision, all Male Gamers, no matter what
    status,
    >married or single, must either be:
    >
    >        A. Bald with Glasses.
    >        B. Beared with Glasses.
    >        C. Husky with Glasses.

    	In that case, I'm afraid I must surrender my gaming status, being
    slim, cleanshaven, 20/20, and possessing a full head of hair. Anybody
    want my collection of Traveller materials? It would be over your dead
    body, of course.

    	On a serious note, I really am about to bow out of Traveller, at
    least for the near future, even resigning from the TML. I'm looking
    for a new home or at least a maintainerfor my Traveller site, as I
    have no time available to spare on it. If you have MS FrontPage, you
    can even take it over without actually having to put up
    webspace--I'll provide a password, you can edit it in place.

    	- Dave, formerly known as the Horseman Famine of the Four Horsemen
    of the Traveller Apocalypse.

    - -- "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"
       -- Mahatma Gandhi

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 22:22:22 -0600
    From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
    Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3346

    "David J. Golden" wrote:
    >
    <<snip>>
    >
    >         On a serious note, I really am about to bow out of Traveller, at
    > least for the near future, even resigning from the TML. I'm looking
    > for a new home or at least a maintainer for my Traveller site, as I
    > have no time available to spare on it.

    Que bummer!  (_Damn_ that Real Life [tm] thing!)

    <<snip>>
    >
    >         - Dave, formerly known as the Horseman Famine of the Four Horsemen
    > of the Traveller Apocalypse.

    Sorry, you can't escape being a Horseman _that_ easily!  After all, we
    managed to drag Kenji back in here, you can't escape forever....

    You at least have earned the title of "Horseman Emeritus."  ;-)

    - --
    AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
    "Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
    Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List

    http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 13:38:09 -0000
    From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
    Subject: RE: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    The Ghalalk class armoured cruiser would be more useful than a Lighting.
    Fighting ship states that the armoured cruiser is a basic fleet workhorse so
    would exist in greater numbers than the aging Lightnings.

    PS (Shameless plug)
    Not to mention that I have redone the Ghalalk to FFS1 standard on my site.
    Its listed in the Alston League Order of Battle enemies section. Follow the
    links from
    www.users.bigpond.com/Skaran
    though the Pocket Empire section

    Antony

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 03:42:39 -0800
    From: "Craig Brain" <cjbrain@bigpond.com>
    Subject: MegaTraveller 1 & 2 Help

    Does anyone have copies of the Megatraveller 1 & 2 Hintbooks and manual
    files that were available for download at Underdogs?

    Their links are broken and not due to be fixed in the near future. I would
    really appreciate any help with this,

    Craig Brain

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 00:01:03 -0600
    From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
    Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    Antony Farrell wrote:
    >
    > The Ghalalk class armoured cruiser would be more useful than a Lighting.
    > Fighting ship states that the armoured cruiser is a basic fleet workhorse so
    > would exist in greater numbers than the aging Lightnings.
    >
    > PS (Shameless plug)
    > Not to mention that I have redone the Ghalalk to FFS1 standard on my site.
    > Its listed in the Alston League Order of Battle enemies section.

    Hmmm.  After final exams, I ought to do an FF&S2 version of the
    _Gionetti_-class light cruiser, as well as a modified _Gionetti_ with a
    PAW spinal mount in place of the meson gun.

    After all, as a posthumous recipient of the Starburst for Extreme
    Heroism*, I want an Imperial ship named after me. ;-)

    Besides, deck plans for a _Gionetti_ would be easier to develop, since
    the ship is only 30,000 dtons.

    *See GT:GF, pages 30-31, for details of my "last full measure of
    devotion" to Crown and Imperium.

    - --
    AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
    "Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
    Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List

    http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 00:06:07 -0700
    From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
    Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    From: Qstor@aol.com <Qstor@aol.com>

    > >     No, as per the 2000 revision, all Male
    > > Gamers, no matter what status, married or
    > > single, must either be:
    > >
    > >         A. Bald with Glasses.
    > >         B. Bearded with Glasses.
    > >         C. Husky with Glasses.
    >
    >D) None of the above :)
    >
    >Mike
    ><---- at 33, cant grow a beard to save his life

        Then become the owner of a FLGS.  That is the only exception allowed.

        I bid you peace.

    Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
    ICQ # 8973001
    legate@futureone.com

    "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
    places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
    passes. Entil'zha Veni!"

    "I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
    USS Excaliber.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 00:09:30 -0700
    From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
    Subject: Re: Beard/glasses

    From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca>

    >Well, I have it all: Beard, glasses, "stockiness" and long hair.  But this
    >discussion has so far ignored a small but important subset of gamer: The
    >clean-shaven and cadaverously thin type (with or w/out glasses).  There
    >are many out there, I'd say they represent 10-15% of gamers, in fact.
    >Let's not ignore these poor hairless retches, we all have to stick
    >together despite gross physical dimorphism!
    >
    >Charles C., prototypical gamer...

    Charles,

        They are usually the ones who own the FLGS, so that are not ignored at
    all.

        I bid you peace.

    Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
    ICQ # 8973001
    legate@futureone.com

    "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
    places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
    passes. Entil'zha Veni!"

    "I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
    USS Excaliber.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 00:13:15 -0700
    From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
    Subject: Re: Beard/glasses

    From: Trevor, Peter <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>

    >> I'm glad to say that I am in the process of transforming from
    >> one of these sad specimens to a robust and healthy gamer. Sadly
    >> my hair has to stay short. Curse the tidy office policy!
    >
    >Yes ... is there an  evoultionary  or  age  path  for  gamers?  I
    >myself was a longish-haired cadaverous  with  glasses  type,  who
    >morphed in a span of 5 years into a short-haired  overly-'robust'
    >with glasses type.
    >
    >Perhaps Niven's Pak Protector is just an early description  of  a
    >gamer's lifecycle.

        Might be, but then again it might be the special inks they use in
    printing?
        The funny thing is that here in Phoenix, there are only four types of
    gamers.  Bald/glasses, beard/glasses, bald/beard, or FLGS owner.

        I bid you peace.

    Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
    ICQ # 8973001
    legate@futureone.com

    "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
    places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
    passes. Entil'zha Veni!"

    "I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
    USS Excaliber.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 00:08:25 -0700
    From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
    Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    From: tsykoduk <tsykoduk@bigfoot.com>

    >OMG.
    >
    >I am not a gamer.
    >
    >Guess I will sell all my stuff and become a religious leader.
    >
    >:P

        Remember the only exception is that of a FLGS owner.  So open up a FLGS.

        I bid you peace.

    Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
    ICQ # 8973001
    legate@futureone.com

    "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
    places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
    passes. Entil'zha Veni!"

    "I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
    USS Excaliber.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 00:26:37 -0700
    From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
    Subject: Re: Beard/glasses

    From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu>

    >Hm.  This reminds me of the long thread a few years ago on the
    >CONLANG list that revealed something like two-thirds of constructed
    >language enthusiasts on the web are a) left-handed b) goateed c)
    >bisexual-or-gay d) men, and close to 100% are at least two of the
    >four.
    >
    >In light of *this* thread, as far as b) goes, perhaps there's just a
    >link between CRT emissions and facial hair growth?
    >
    >Kenji

        Kenji is back.
        Maybe, I know I spend a lot of time in front of a CRT & I have grown a
    nice goatee because of it.

        I bid you peace.

    Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
    ICQ # 8973001
    legate@futureone.com

    "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
    places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
    passes. Entil'zha Veni!"

    "I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
    USS Excaliber.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 00:31:47 -0700
    From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
    Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    From: Megan Robertson <mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk>

    >Greetings dear hearts.
    >
    >Is there a deckplan on A4 - for those of us who DON'T use miniatures but
    >would like to see the layout of the ship?
    >
    >And what are we female gamers supposed to wear? Beard-growing isn't an
    >option! (My eyesight is OK too...)

        Judging from the last cons (local to my area of course, I don't plan to
    drive or fly to go to a con in another state, unless they have something
    good happening) I have gone to....

            A. Dressed like Xena.
            B. Dressed like Gabby.
            C. Dressed like Deanna Troy.
            D. Dressed like Dr. Crusher.
            E. Dressed like Kira.
            F. Dressed like Dax.
            G. Dressed in a Black Mini-Skirt, electrical tape on nipples, &
    screaming out that they are not a sexual object for men.

        Btw, G is the main reason my wife likes to come to Cons with me, so she
    can geek on the women who scream out that they are not a sexual object for
    men.

    >Hugs and kisses,
    >
    >Mexal.

        I bid you peace.

    Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
    ICQ # 8973001
    legate@futureone.com

    "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
    places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
    passes. Entil'zha Veni!"

    "I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
    USS Excaliber.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 00:33:17 -0700
    From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
    Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described

    From: Stephen Tempest <TML@stempest.demon.co.uk>

    >>BTW, is there some rule that we (male) gamers must wear glasses and have
    >>beards? Well, at least Loren has kept far more of his hair than I have ...
    >
    >Do contact lenses count?

        Yes, they do, along with sun glasses.

        I bid you peace.

    Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
    ICQ # 8973001
    legate@futureone.com

    "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
    places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
    passes. Entil'zha Veni!"

    "I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
    USS Excaliber.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 00:34:44 -0700
    From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
    Subject: Re: Beard/glasses

    From: Brandon Cope <copeab@mail.elc.net>

    >>Hair?...meters of the stuff...have to lop off a few
    >>feet each morning, or I'll never be able to see at
    >>work...(glasses or not).
    >
    >I have Gallagher Syndrome -- really thin on top, but I can have long, thick
    hair on the sides and back -- kinda like a monkish Cousin It ...

        But, do you like to smash watermellons with a large hammer while wearing
    rollerskates?

        I bid you peace.

    Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
    ICQ # 8973001
    legate@futureone.com

    "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
    places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
    passes. Entil'zha Veni!"

    "I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
    USS Excaliber.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 08:27:52 -0000
    From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
    Subject: RE: Beard/glasses

    LOL... 'Hey Boss, can we get a licence for Hair 2.1? It's more stable and
    has great connectivity'
    Boss: *sigh*: 'Whatever. Shut up and sit down. '

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Rob Myers [mailto:robm@h2g2.com]
    > Sent: 01 December 2000 17:10
    > To: traveller@lists.ient.com
    > Subject: RE: Beard/glasses
    >
    >
    > Well, if your hair is considered part of the office, have a
    > word with your office manager about the company paying for an
    > upgrade. When they decline, offer to provide one for free.
    > When they decline, threaten to tell  the shareholders that
    > they're not being cost-effective and you'll be able to grow
    > your hair as long as you like.
    >
    > - Rob.
    >
    > On Friday, December 1, 2000, at 04:49 PM, Jones, Dean wrote:
    >
    > > I'm glad to say that I am in the process of transforming
    > from one of these
    > > sad specimens to a robust and healthy gamer. Sadly my hair
    > has to stay
    > > short. Curse the tidy office policy!
    >

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 08:29:29 -0000
    From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
    Subject: RE: Beard/glasses

    Maybe...I just got a new flat screen at the office so I'll see if the beard
    goes away :)

    Dean

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Kenji Schwarz [mailto:schwarz@fas.harvard.edu]
    > Sent: 01 December 2000 22:07
    > To: traveller@lists.ient.com
    > Subject: Re: Beard/glasses
    >
    >
    > Hm.  This reminds me of the long thread a few years ago on the
    > CONLANG list that revealed something like two-thirds of constructed
    > language enthusiasts on the web are a) left-handed b) goateed c)
    > bisexual-or-gay d) men, and close to 100% are at least two of the
    > four.
    >
    > In light of *this* thread, as far as b) goes, perhaps there's just a
    > link between CRT emissions and facial hair growth?
    >
    > Kenji
    >
    >
    > >Beard - check.
    > >Overweight - check.
    > >Bald - nope, hair is currently working its way over the gut in fact.
    > >Glasses - nope, despite reading manuals to all hours of the
    > night I still
    > >have excellent vision.
    > >
    > >Sam
    >

    ------------------------------

    End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3349
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From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3350 Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Errors-To: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Precedence: bulk Traveller-digest Saturday, December 2 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3350 (R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises. All rights reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: RE: Beard/glasses Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described RE: Masses in the Universe RE: Masses in the Universe RE: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described Re: Planetary Map Templates? Re: Masses in the Universe Re: Trade Volume Heresy Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans Re: BayCon 2001 Party Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans Re: Deck plans Re: Masses in the Universe Re: Deck plans "Shadows" and the Hhkar Re: "Shadows" and the Hhkar Re: "Shadows" and the Hhkar WBD file format. Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans Re: Deck plans Re: Masses in the Universe Re: Masses in the Universe Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 08:34:48 -0000 From: "Jones, Dean" Subject: RE: Beard/glasses > -----Original Message----- > From: Brandon Cope [mailto:copeab@mail.elc.net] > Sent: 01 December 2000 23:16 > To: traveller@lists.ient.com > Subject: Re: Beard/glasses > > > From: Bernie McGeehan > > >Hair?...meters of the stuff...have to lop off a few > >feet each morning, or I'll never be able to see at > >work...(glasses or not). > > I have Gallagher Syndrome -- really thin on top, but I can > have long, thick hair on the sides and back -- kinda like a > monkish Cousin It ... > Hmm, in the UK Gallagher Syndrome means you have one thick eyebrow, get drunk a lot, beat people up and get invited to the Prime Ministers house for tea :) Dean ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 00:49:26 -0800 From: Evyn MacDude Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described GypsyComet@aol.com wrote: > Brandon Cope wrote: > > > I had never realized just how big those ships were until now ... > > Evyn and I were at one point looking for a field large enough to park a > stationwagon in, then use marker tape to rough out a Type S around it (with > the car sitting in the vehicle bay). The number of useful fields was smaller > than we were expecting... If the sport wagon was half a discplacement tonne, that makes the echo a quarter. - -- Evyn... We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; For he today that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so lowly, This day shall enoble his rank. Henry V - William Shakespeare ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 09:08:24 -0000 From: "Jones, Dean" Subject: RE: Masses in the Universe > > > > Black holes? > > > > Unless you use the "jump limit is based on tidal forces" > dodge, popping > > out at 100 diameters from a black hole is going to be fatal. > > > > I don't know if anyone else has thought of this, but since a > black hole is a > singularity (a point of infinite density), jumping in at the > 100D mark would > be still be jumping into the center (0D) of the thing, wouldn't it? Yes, but I feel that that would only apply with naked sigularites. I'd assume the 100D limit is 100ds of the event horizon, not the singularity. > > P.S. If your looking to have fun with dwarfs, my favorite is the "Red" > variety. ;-) > Ah, the old Crimson Short One, eh? Great series. Dean ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 09:11:33 -0000 From: "Jones, Dean" Subject: RE: Masses in the Universe Hmm, I hadn't been reading this thread, but now I've looked at Tim's thoughts on 100ds of e.v I'll have to rethink Dean > > > > > > > > > > Black holes? > > > > > > Unless you use the "jump limit is based on tidal forces" > > dodge, popping > > > out at 100 diameters from a black hole is going to be fatal. > > > > > > > I don't know if anyone else has thought of this, but since a > > black hole is a > > singularity (a point of infinite density), jumping in at the > > 100D mark would > > be still be jumping into the center (0D) of the thing, wouldn't it? > > Yes, but I feel that that would only apply with naked sigularites. I'd > assume the 100D limit is 100ds of the event horizon, not the > singularity. > > > > > > > P.S. If your looking to have fun with dwarfs, my favorite > is the "Red" > > variety. ;-) > > > > Ah, the old Crimson Short One, eh? Great series. > > Dean > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 11:00 +0000 (GMT) From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson) Subject: RE: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described In-Reply-To: Greetings dear hearts. Frankie commented: - >> And what are we female gamers supposed to wear? > I will not give in, I will not give in... >It's so hard for a toon to resist a straight line like that. >> Beard-growing isn't an option! >Of course it is. >Just take a few too many steroids, and don't shave. >> (My eyesight is OK too...) >We can deal with that also. >Try unsheilded solar observation for a few hours. LOL. For those who are (not) interested, I am short, built for comfort not for speed, have long black hair going white and am left-handed. I earn my keep as a college webmeister, and have 3 passions in life: my dearly beloved, roleplaying games & the study of uniforms and medals. The roleplaying, as well as 2 games a week, appears in the form of major scenario writing (including, to stay vaguely on-topic, a TRAVELLER tournament scenario for Gen Con UK 2000, which I also refereed) and the beginnings of some pro writing (a PENDRAGON sourcebook at the moment). The medals stuff is reflected in my personal website at http://www.medals.org.uk/ I also have a 4 year old daughter and 2 large dogs. Now you know far more about me that you really wanted to :-) Oh - and I usually wear black combat pants & whatever colour sweater is clean (yellow today). Barefoot except when sandals become absolutely necessary. Hugs and kisses, Mexal. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 02:14:52 PST From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) Subject: Re: Planetary Map Templates? In mail you write: > Leonard Erickson wrote: > >> In mail you write: >> >> > http://portcaddo.com/bloo/traveller/Travmaps/ >> > >> > 10 formats, several of them vector, at two resolutions. >> >> Is one of the vector formats HPGL? > > No. But it's just a click away if you want to check for > yourself. :-P Not via a uucp link it isn't! - -- Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 02:17:07 PST From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) Subject: Re: Masses in the Universe In mail you write: >> > Black holes? >> >> Unless you use the "jump limit is based on tidal forces" dodge, popping >> out at 100 diameters from a black hole is going to be fatal. >> > > I don't know if anyone else has thought of this, but since a black hole is a > singularity (a point of infinite density), jumping in at the 100D mark would > be still be jumping into the center (0D) of the thing, wouldn't it? Actually, by definition, nothing inside the event horizon is observable from outside. So the "radius" is that of the event horizon. Things inside the eventhorizon get weird anyway. For example, though the BH has a finite surface area (the event horizon) it has "infinite" volume. That's because the distance from the EH to the singularity is infinite. >>> Anything else interestingly exotic? >> >> A cooled white dwarf would be nasty, as it's hard to spot. But I don't >> think the universe is old enough. > > I believe that these are called "black dwarfs". Either that or GURPS Space > and every other astronomy text that I've read is totally wrong... I thought I recalled a note in an article dealing with "brown dwarfs" that indicated that they are trying to drop that usage as it gets too confusing with all the different kinds of "dwarf". > P.S. If your looking to have fun with dwarfs, my favorite is the "Red" > variety. ;-) Fine. *You* get to share a cabin with Lister. - -- Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 02:22:20 PST From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) Subject: Re: Trade Volume Heresy In mail you write: > Leonard Erickson wrote: > >> Check your Win98 CD. If you dig into it, I'm pretty sure you'll find >> QBASIC on one of the subdirectories. > > Oh, is QBASIC on the Win98 CD? I didn't know, that's great news! Well, I haven't checked. I know it's on the win95 CD. Ok, I just checked. It's in \TOOLS\OLDMSDOS\ Sort of strange searching a Win98SE CD on an OS/2 box. :-) - -- Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 02:09:09 PST From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans In mail you write: > From: Jones, Dean > >>How about deckplans for an AHL? :> > > > Yes please, as well as the Armored Cruiser from Fighting Ships. You guys want plans to Babylon 4 & 5 while you are at it? - -- Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 07:19:39 From: "Douglas E. Berry" Subject: Re: BayCon 2001 Party At 09:44 PM 12/1/2000 -0600, you wrote: >Sadly, as National Guard duty calls, I don't think I'll be able to make >a repeat appearance. C'est la guerre*. Feh. I'm sure that if you explained to your CO that you can't make drill because you have travel cross-country to go to a party, he'd be very understanding. >*Quote attributed to the Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys upon their >nation's capitulation to a German Boy Scout troop. Two jokes that made the rounds in early 1990: Did you hear France's reaction to German reunification? Unconditional surrender. THE GOOD NEWS: The newly-united Germany has chosen the site for its capital. THE BAD NEWS: It's Warsaw. - -- Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 07:21:58 From: "Douglas E. Berry" Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans At 02:09 AM 12/2/2000 PST, you wrote: >You guys want plans to Babylon 4 & 5 while you are at it? I did a complete set of plans for Babylon 4. But 24 hours after I finished them, they mysteriously vanished. - -- Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry gridlore@mindspring.com http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html "Penguin Boy, Righter of wrongs, hero to millions, & friend to Flash Gordon." - Legate Legion on the TML ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 10:33:31 EST From: GDWGAMES@aol.com Subject: Re: Deck plans > Is there a deckplan on A4 - for those of us who DON'T use miniatures but > would like to see the layout of the ship? Only place SJ Games publishes Beowulf in A4 (or close to it) is in the GURPS Traveller basic book. LKW ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 10:25:49 -0600 From: "Brandon Cope" Subject: Re: Masses in the Universe From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) >> P.S. If your looking to have fun with dwarfs, my favorite is the "Red" >> variety. ;-) > >Fine. *You* get to share a cabin with Lister. And exactly how is that better than bunking with Rimmer? ... Brandon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 18:22 +0000 (GMT) From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson) Subject: Re: Deck plans In-Reply-To: <9c.9731efc.275a704b@aol.com> Greetings dear hearts. >>Is there a deckplan on A4 - for those of us who DON'T use miniatures >>but would like to see the layout of the ship? >Only place SJ Games publishes Beowulf in A4 (or close to it) is in the >GURPS Traveller basic book. Thanks Loren, but has anyone considered that a lot of players will use a smaller deckplan as an aid to describing a ship and administering actions in and around it without actually resorting to miniatures and a 'board-game' approach to movement around the ship? It's not particularly the Beowulf that I'm after, it's deckplans in general. Particularly the larger and more unusual ships - I'm planning a scenario that takes place on some kinda big naval ship, for example. Oh, and Babylon stations would be just peachy :-) Hugs and kisses, Mexal. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 15:10:33 -0500 From: "Paul Drye" Subject: "Shadows" and the Hhkar After much digging in a back room, through boxes that haven't been unpacked for the last two moves, I finally found the documents that led me to think there was a connection between "Shadows" and the Hhkar. After blowing the dust off them, I sat down and read it closely for clues. Mike Mikesh, author of the Challenge article on that race, sent me a copy of what he had written, as I was interested in the Julian Protectorate at the time. This was before the Hhkar article was printed in Challenge, when he was in the process of developing it. In his cover letter, he explained the connection between the two, and that he was also writing an adventure called "Deep Shadows" that involved it. I've no idea whether or not this adventure ever saw print, or if the connection between the the pyraminds in "Shadows" and the Hhkar was excised somewhere along the way. Certainly the intention was that "Deep Shadows" was supposed to be explanatory of the events in "Shadows". So there you go. Maybe it's canon, and maybe it isn't! It all depends on what ended up in the adventure, and what made it past its editor -- even assuming it made it into print at all. Cheers, Paul Drye _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 14:38:23 -0600 From: Jimmy Simpson Subject: Re: "Shadows" and the Hhkar At 03:10 PM 12/2/2000 -0500, you wrote: >After much digging in a back room, through boxes that haven't been >unpacked for the last two moves, I finally found the documents that led me >to think there was a connection between "Shadows" and the Hhkar. After >blowing the dust off them, I sat down and read it closely for clues. > >Mike Mikesh, author of the Challenge article on that race, sent me a copy >of what he had written, as I was interested in the Julian Protectorate at >the time. This was before the Hhkar article was printed in Challenge, when >he was in the process of developing it. In his cover letter, he explained >the connection between the two, and that he was also writing an adventure >called "Deep Shadows" that involved it. > >I've no idea whether or not this adventure ever saw print, or if the >connection between the the pyraminds in "Shadows" and the Hhkar was >excised somewhere along the way. Certainly the intention was that "Deep >Shadows" was supposed to be explanatory of the events in "Shadows". > >So there you go. Maybe it's canon, and maybe it isn't! It all depends on >what ended up in the adventure, and what made it past its editor -- even >assuming it made it into print at all. > >Cheers, >Paul Drye I could have sworn I have seen a copy of Deep Shadows out on the web someplace, but I don't know where. I thought I had a copy of it somewhere on my computer too, but again, I can't find it. Jimmy Simpson nimrodd@mail.com "The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote." -Kosh Naranek (Babylon 5) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 21:15:01 +0000 From: Paul Campbell Subject: Re: "Shadows" and the Hhkar On Sat, Dec 02, 2000 at 02:38:23PM -0600, Jimmy Simpson wrote: > I could have sworn I have seen a copy of Deep Shadows out on the web > someplace, but I don't know where. I thought I had a copy of it > somewhere on my computer too, but again, I can't find it. http://killer.discordia.ch/Roleplay/Traveller/Adventures/DeepShadows.html - -- Paul Campbell (Sourceforge) GPG Key fingerprint = 9C4F 31A3 8814 9F94 A533 A979 E63F 0C69 A771 0F24 http://www.kemitix.uklinux.net jupiter: 9:11pm up 17 days, 11:11, 0 users, load average: 0.09, 0.03, 0.01 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 15:24:24 -0600 From: "Shimmergloom" Subject: WBD file format. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C05C73.F40D9860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I seem to remember reading something about a change to the WBD file = format recently. Can anyone send me a copy of the new format? - ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C05C73.F40D9860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I seem to remember reading something = about a change=20 to the WBD file format recently. Can anyone send me a copy of the = new=20 format?
- ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C05C73.F40D9860-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 14:46:05 PST From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans In mail you write: > At 02:09 AM 12/2/2000 PST, you wrote: > >>You guys want plans to Babylon 4 & 5 while you are at it? > > I did a complete set of plans for Babylon 4. But 24 hours after I finished > them, they mysteriously vanished. Along with the dozens of filing cabinets it tyook to hold them, no doubt. - -- Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 14:49:54 PST From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) Subject: Re: Deck plans In mail you write: > In-Reply-To: <9c.9731efc.275a704b@aol.com> > Greetings dear hearts. > >>>Is there a deckplan on A4 - for those of us who DON'T use miniatures >>>but would like to see the layout of the ship? > >>Only place SJ Games publishes Beowulf in A4 (or close to it) is in the >>GURPS Traveller basic book. > > Thanks Loren, but has anyone considered that a lot of players will use a > smaller deckplan as an aid to describing a ship and administering actions > in and around it without actually resorting to miniatures and a > 'board-game' approach to movement around the ship? > > It's not particularly the Beowulf that I'm after, it's deckplans in > general. Particularly the larger and more unusual ships - I'm planning a > scenario that takes place on some kinda big naval ship, for example. Azhanti High Lightning. You can pick up the plans, though if you want to have *all* the decks available (there are about a dozen different "layouts", most repeated multiple times) you'll have to spend some serious money on xeroxing them. > Oh, and Babylon stations would be just peachy :-) Yeah, but the plans are kinda bulky. Remember, those things are 5 *miles* long. :-) - -- Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 14:47:15 PST From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) Subject: Re: Masses in the Universe In mail you write: > From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) > >>> P.S. If your looking to have fun with dwarfs, my favorite is the "Red" >>> variety. ;-) >> >>Fine. *You* get to share a cabin with Lister. > > And exactly how is that better than bunking with Rimmer? ... Wait a sec, do I have them backwards? I meant the one who *isn't* a hologram. After all, you can get Holly to turn *him* off for a while if you work at it. - -- Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 17:37:51 -0600 From: Brandon Cope Subject: Re: Masses in the Universe Leonard Erickson wrote: > In mail you write: > > > From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) > > > >>> P.S. If your looking to have fun with dwarfs, my favorite is the "Red" > >>> variety. ;-) > >> > >>Fine. *You* get to share a cabin with Lister. > > > > And exactly how is that better than bunking with Rimmer? ... > > Wait a sec, do I have them backwards? I meant the one who *isn't* a > hologram. After all, you can get Holly to turn *him* off for a while if > you work at it. Rimmer is the hologram (for most seasons). I could probably tolerate Lister just slightly more than Rimmer. (as the Arnold Rimmer song echos though my head ...) Brandon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 16:49:58 -0700 From: "Legate Legion" Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans From: Leonard Erickson >>>How about deckplans for an AHL? :> >> >> >> Yes please, as well as the Armored Cruiser from Fighting Ships. > >You guys want plans to Babylon 4 & 5 while you are at it? Leonard, Do you really have to ask? Of course we do, along with the Enterprise (NCC-1701, NCC-1701-A, B, C, D, & E), the Death Star, the Sulaco, & quite a few others. I bid you peace. Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large. ICQ # 8973001 legate@futureone.com "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one passes. Entil'zha Veni!" "I don't need Romance. I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security, USS Excaliber. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 16:51:44 -0700 From: "Legate Legion" Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans From: Douglas E. Berry >>You guys want plans to Babylon 4 & 5 while you are at it? > >I did a complete set of plans for Babylon 4. But 24 hours after I finished >them, they mysteriously vanished. They will show up again, in a few years, Doug, but then they will go back in time to fight a major war. >"Penguin Boy, Righter of wrongs, hero to millions, & >friend to Flash Gordon." - Legate Legion on the TML Btw, what about Flash's brother, Flesh? I bid you peace. Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large. ICQ # 8973001 legate@futureone.com "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one passes. Entil'zha Veni!" "I don't need Romance. I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security, USS Excaliber. ------------------------------ End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3350 *********************************** To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command: unsubscribe traveller-digest in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller": subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest" in the commands above with "traveller". Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com

    From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)
    To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com
    Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3351
    Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com
    Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com
    Errors-To: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com
    Precedence: bulk

    Traveller-digest      Sunday, December 3 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 3351

    (R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
    All rights reserved.

    The following topics are covered in this digest:

    Re: Deck plans
    Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    Re: Deck plans
    Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    Re: SSDS question
    Re: "Shadows" and the Hhkar
    StellarCartographer 1.0
    RE: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    Re: Deck plans
    Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    Fw: Who's Who a Couple of Possible Entries
    Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    Re: Trade Volume Heresy
    Striker Artillery
    Re: Trade volume heresy
    Re: Trade volume heresy
    RE: Masses in the Universe

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 17:13:18 -0700
    From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
    Subject: Re: Deck plans

    From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com>

    >> Oh, and Babylon stations would be just peachy :-)
    >
    >Yeah, but the plans are kinda bulky. Remember, those things are 5
    >*miles* long. :-)

        So, do them to scale, say large enough that they are not too bulky, but
    small enough that no details are left out.

        I bid you peace.

    Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
    ICQ # 8973001
    legate@futureone.com

    "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
    places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
    passes. Entil'zha Veni!"

    "I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
    USS Excaliber.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 16:23:54
    From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
    Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    At 04:49 PM 12/2/2000 -0700, you wrote:

    >    Do you really have to ask?  Of course we do, along with the Enterprise
    >(NCC-1701, NCC-1701-A, B, C, D, & E), the Death Star, the Sulaco, & quite a
    >few others.

    I want Studio 54.
    - --

    Douglas Berry      gridlore@mindspring.com
       http://gridlore.home.mondspring.com

    "A mörgæs einu sinni hluti minn systir..."

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 11:40:16 +1100
    From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
    Subject: Re: Deck plans

    On Sat, Dec 02, 2000 at 05:13:18PM -0700, Legate Legion wrote:
    [... B5 deckplans ...]
    >     So, do them to scale, say large enough that they are not too bulky, but
    > small enough that no details are left out.

    If you do 1 : 20 000 scale, you could probably fit a representative
    sample of deckplans onto a few large tables while individual rooms
    would still be visible (with a good magnifying glass).

    :^)

    - --
    IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
    Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 16:55:17 -0800
    From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
    Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    On Sat, 2 Dec 2000 16:51:44 -0700, "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
    wrote:

    >From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
    >
    > >>You guys want plans to Babylon 4 & 5 while you are at it?
    > >
    > >I did a complete set of plans for Babylon 4.  But 24 hours after I finished
    > >them, they mysteriously vanished.
    >
    >     They will show up again, in a few years, Doug, but then they will go
    >back in time to fight a major war.

    Along with the Penguin Not Born of Penguin.

    - --------------
    Kelly St.Clair     "Homines est! Dici omnes! Soylens viridis HOMINES EST!"
    kellys@efn.org

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 18:34:07 -0700
    From: "Joseph Kimball" <jekimball@prodigy.net>
    Subject: Re: SSDS question

    Thanks!
    I don't have FF&S2, so I am glad for the information.  It is on my list of
    'get someday' things.
    - - Joseph

    >>>>
    Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 21:45:16 -0600
    From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
    Subject: Re: SSDS question

    Joseph Kimball wrote:
    >
    > In the T4 SSDS, what is the difference between Basic and Standard life
    > support?  Does Standard life support replace Basic?

    In FF&S2 (the definitive [though errata-filled] T4 tech reference), the
    various life support systems are:

    Minimal:  Sealed environment, heat, and light.  Air is open-loop.
    Normal duration: 3 hours.

    Basic:  Heat, light, and short-term purified air.  Normal duration: 12
    hours.

    Standard:  Light, thermal control, closed-loop water, and
    semi-closed-loop air.  Food is carried for appropriate duration.  This
    is the standard life support system for starships.  Normal duration: 2
    weeks.

    Extended:  Light, thermal control, and closed-loop air and water.  Food
    is carried for desired duration.  Nearly all AuricTech designs use this
    system, with warships carrying at least 26 weeks of rations.  Normal
    duration: Indefinite (limited by carried food).

    Endurance:  Full closed-loop recycling of air, water, and food (using
    hydro/aeroponics, aquaculture, and/or carniculture, depending on
    subtype).  Endurance systems are designed to support a set number of
    crew/passengers.  Normal duration: Indefinite.

    Vehicles intended for anything beyond routine orbital work should have
    at least Standard life support.

    <<snip>>

    - - --
    AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
    "Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
    Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List

    http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 19:37:27 -0600
    From: Robert Gilson <rgilson@uswest.net>
    Subject: Re: "Shadows" and the Hhkar

    Paul Drye wrote:

    > After much digging in a back room, through boxes that haven't been unpacked
    > for the last two moves, I finally found the documents that led me to think
    > there was a connection between "Shadows" and the Hhkar. After blowing the
    > dust off them, I sat down and read it closely for clues.

    The big problem with combining Shadows with the Hhkar is that the world the Shadows
    takes place on has a fluorine atmosphere, were the Hhkar like their atmosphere tainted
    with
    sulfur.

    Robert Gilson

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 20:48:33 -0600
    From: "Shimmergloom" <dragon@mhtc.net>
    Subject: StellarCartographer 1.0

    This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

    - ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C05CA1.3C87D9C0
    Content-Type: text/plain;
    	charset="iso-8859-1"
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Hello all.  I have the interface to my new sector generator completed =
    and was wondering if anyone wanted to look at it at this early stage in =
    it's development.

    It is written in Visual Basic 6. and should run on any windows95+ =
    machine.

    - ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C05CA1.3C87D9C0
    Content-Type: text/html;
    	charset="iso-8859-1"
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
    <HTML><HEAD>
    <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
    charset=3Diso-8859-1">
    <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4207.2601" name=3DGENERATOR>
    <STYLE></STYLE>
    </HEAD>
    <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello all.&nbsp; I have the interface =
    to my new=20
    sector generator completed and was wondering if anyone wanted to look at =
    it at=20
    this early stage in it's development.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It is written in Visual Basic 6. and =
    should run on=20
    any windows95+ machine.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

    - ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C05CA1.3C87D9C0--

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 18:52:55 -0800
    From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net>
    Subject: RE: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    Now that you mention it.....

    :)
    Jesse

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
    > [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
    > Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 2:09 AM
    > To: traveller@lists.ient.com
    > Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    >
    >
    > In mail you write:
    >
    > > From: Jones, Dean <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
    > >
    > >>How about deckplans for an AHL? :>
    > >
    > >
    > >     Yes please, as well as the Armored Cruiser from Fighting Ships.
    >
    > You guys want plans to Babylon 4 & 5 while you are at it?
    >
    > --
    > Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
    >  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
    > leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
    >

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 22:44:23 -0600
    From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
    Subject: Re: Deck plans

    On 12/02/00 at 06:22 PM,  mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson) said:

    >Thanks Loren, but has anyone considered that a lot of players will
    >use a  smaller deckplan as an aid to describing a ship and
    >administering actions  in and around it without actually resorting
    >to miniatures and a  'board-game' approach to movement around the
    >ship?

    >It's not particularly the Beowulf that I'm after, it's deckplans in
    > general. Particularly the larger and more unusual ships - I'm
    >planning a  scenario that takes place on some kinda big naval ship,
    >for example.

    Mexal, you are absolutely correct.  I'm not likely to use deckplans
    on the scale of SJG's new Beowulf, although it's going to be *very*
    hard to not buy a copy.  OTOH, there *are* a lot of deckplans on the
    internet, if you look around.  There is a Deckplans webring with a
    number of sites each containing at least one plan posted, most with
    several.  Goto...

    http://nav.webring.yahoo.com/hub?ring=deckring&list

    ... for a list of websites on the ring.

    More generally, there is also a Gearhead ring...

    http://nav.webring.yahoo.com/hub?ring=travgearhead&list

    Finally, I can't help but put in a plug for my own site where I've
    got plans for a 1,000 dton Merchant Explorer, a 220 dton Free Trader
    and a ship's boat, see url below.  My technology is a little
    non-standard, but that's not all that important in this case.

    >Oh, and Babylon stations would be just peachy :-)

    There I can't help you. <g>

    Eris
    - --
    - -----------------------------------------------------------
    eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245
    http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
    - -----------------------------------------------------------

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 22:01:15 -0700
    From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
    Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>

    >>    Do you really have to ask?  Of course we do, along with the Enterprise
    >>(NCC-1701, NCC-1701-A, B, C, D, & E), the Death Star, the Sulaco, & quite
    a
    >>few others.
    >
    >I want Studio 54.

        And, what about Red Dwarf?

        I bid you peace.

    Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
    ICQ # 8973001
    legate@futureone.com

    "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
    places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
    passes. Entil'zha Veni!"

    "I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
    USS Excaliber.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 22:05:31 -0700
    From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
    Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    From: Kelly St.Clair <kellys@efn.org>

    >>     They will show up again, in a few years, Doug, but then they will go
    >>back in time to fight a major war.
    >
    >Along with the Penguin Not Born of Penguin.

        And, of course he will be flanked by two Vorlons, in this case Marc
    Miller & Loren Wiseman.

        I bid you peace.

    Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
    ICQ # 8973001
    legate@futureone.com

    "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
    places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
    passes. Entil'zha Veni!"

    "I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
    USS Excaliber.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 23:57:15 -0500
    From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net>
    Subject: Fw: Who's Who a Couple of Possible Entries

    Subject: Re: Who's Who an Additional Possible Entry

    The Jolly Little Man

    Provide Name as desired (I call him Mr. Jolly), Arms Dealer
    Milieu: Any Sector: Any

    Human male apparently in his mid 60’s

    He looks like a typical grandfather.  When asked about his life he replies
    frankly, “ It has been a landscape forlorn hopes and frustrated
     aspirations.”  not his, but his customers.     He is first and foremost an
    arms dealer.  He always provides the goods, the fact that his customers don’
    t always use them wisely is not his concern.  He is the Spinward’s biggest
    private dealer in previously owned, used and surplus small arms. He
    specializes in reliable weapons for the lower tech market to be used in
    standard atmospheres.  His inventory typically includes weapons which are
    generally considered company level or below and stop well short of ship
    killers.   His is preferably a cash and carry business, and anyone needing a
    consignment to start a revolution or stage a counter-revolution has only to
    contact him or his staff.   Once the payment had been negotiated and funds
    transferred the consignment would be released.  However for an additional
    fee he will arrange delivery to a mutually acceptable location by the
    quickest secure route.

    His origins are murky.  He clearly saw some military service early in his
    career but for who and where in the Marches is a matter of conjecture.  He
    was apparently recruited by and served for several years in one of the
    Imperial Intelligence services but which one is not known.  What is know is
    that he has an almost encyclopedic knowledge of small arms, their individual
    faults and foibles.

    He is very well connected and might be encountered in a posh but very
    discrete
    resort, restaurant, hotel, casino etc.  If the PCs control, own or serve as
    crew on a star ship he may seek to use the vessel to deliver a consignment.
    While he is very above board in his business dealings and will not violate
    Imperial laws he is less scrupulous regarding the laws of planetary authorit
    ies.  Possible scenarios involving him might be kidnap attempts by irate
    planetary officials, delivery of cargoes and the pickup of merchandise.

    >

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 23:10:35 -0600
    From: Brandon Cope <copeab@elc.net>
    Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    Legate Legion wrote:

    > From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
    >
    > >>    Do you really have to ask?  Of course we do, along with the Enterprise
    > >>(NCC-1701, NCC-1701-A, B, C, D, & E), the Death Star, the Sulaco, & quite
    > a
    > >>few others.
    > >
    > >I want Studio 54.
    >
    >     And, what about Red Dwarf?

    I'd rather have Starbug -- however, I get the feeling that it has an internal
    layout somewhat like the TARDIS ...

    A generous and sadistic GM,
    Brandon Cope

    http://www.geocities.com/copeab
    *** adventure seeds and Traveller page added ***

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 23:10:39 -0600
    From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
    Subject: Re: Trade Volume Heresy

    On 12/02/00 at 02:22 AM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:

    >In mail you write:

    >> Leonard Erickson wrote:
    >>
    >>> Check your Win98 CD. If you dig into it, I'm pretty sure you'll find
    >>> QBASIC on one of the subdirectories.
    >>
    >> Oh, is QBASIC on the Win98 CD?  I didn't know, that's great news!

    >Well, I haven't checked. I know it's on the win95 CD.
    >
    >Ok, I just checked. It's in \TOOLS\OLDMSDOS\

    Yeah, I found it. Installed it on my computer at work. Now I can tinker with my old friend, BASIC, again. <g>

    >Sort of strange searching a Win98SE CD on an OS/2 box. :-)

    Hee, hee yeah. I know what you mean.

    Eris
    - --
    - -----------------------------------------------------------
    eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245
    http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
    - -----------------------------------------------------------

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 21:31:46 -0800
    From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com>
    Subject: Striker Artillery

    If you attempt to use artillery in Striker, you quickly notice that it's not
    very effective. Why? Well, for starters, you need to roll 31+ [That's not a
    typo!] on 2d6 to get the "on target" result. Since you can't get this
    without a big DM, you need to acculumulate those +1 or +2 DMs for every turn
    of correction for quite a while, usually well past the end of a Striker
    game.

    Since I want artillery to be used in the Striker game at DunDraCon in
    February, I am trying to get a reasonable way to modify the artillery rules.
    My first thought involves "registration points." Each forward observer gets
    two [More? Less?] RPs which get plotted on a map before the game begins. So
    you get to look at the terrain, guess where your opponent will be, and plan
    your fire missions accordingly. Fire on a RP gets a net DM of +20, so a 2d7
    roll of 7 gives you a 100 meter error from the RP.

    Since this will be a low-TL [TL 5] game, the fire direction center can't
    just push buttons on their computer to make the required fire commands
    appear. To model this, I am thinking of an additional one turn delay for
    fire missions which are along the lines of "From RP 1, shift 200 meters
    North," but with basically the same net DM. Maybe a net DM of +19 or +18 for
    shifts from RPs.

    I would appreciate feedback from other Striker players on this concept and
    ways to improve it.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 08:11:00 +1100
    From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au>
    Subject: Re: Trade volume heresy

    From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
    > Subject: Re: Trade volume heresy
    > I think the Spinward Marches has only about 90,000 system pairs.  Of
    > course you can always just ignore most of them if you want, though be
    > warned that with the GT:FT model doing so does skew the results a lot.

    It doesnt skew them a lot, if you are primarily determining where the trade
    routes are. It's pretty easy to determine what paths wont make a 7.5 BTN.>
    That sounds good.  I might have a go at that myself, since I have
    > plenty of time and a fair bit of computing power available  :^)
    >
    >
    > > Needless to say, it was goanna need some very heavy-duty computing, as
    it's
    > > basically a Sraffa model of an economy with time and distance factors
    added
    > > in :)
    >
    > That's where my lack of economics background starts to show up.  I'd
    > need to do some digging to find out what a Sraffa model is and how to
    > apply one.
    >

    Piero Sraffa 'Production of Commodities by means of Commodities'. It's a
    slim, exteremly terse about 70 page book. Basically, it proved that if you
    postulated a whole bunch of simultaneous equations to describe an economy's
    processes (plus the idea of modelling capital equipment depreciation by
    saying 'shoe factory + leather + thread = bunch of shoes + 1 year old shoe
    factory'. 1 year old shoe factories get an output formula that involves less
    shoes being made etc etc), you could crunch the number for a given rate of
    interest and completely model the economy. What the book showed was that
    although you needed a rate of interest, you didnt actually need to know the
    prices of anything to model an economy.

    Naturally, it didnt cover things like time, space and restricted (patented)
    techniques.

    Before any of the bright sparks in the audience start thinking, yes these
    models probably are subject to chaotic effects.

    Now, Sraffa is part of heterodox economics (along with Kalecki, Joan
    Robinson etc), and being not within the 2 big streams of 20th century
    economic ideology ^k^k^k^k thought (neo-classical economics, particularily
    the Chicago school, and Marxism), probably didnt get the coverage he
    deserved.

    Look him up in the 'New Palgrave Dictionary of Economics' (which,
    incidentally, was a magnificent end-run by the Cambridge, England school of
    post-Keynesians, as it let them define the entire history of economics for
    undergraduates worldwide, much to the annoyance of the Chicago school, who
    thought that having won the minds of most of the current generation, they
    should get the next one as well. Heaven forbid that anyone bright young
    things might start mining the long streams of thought that do not start with
    assumptions of perfect, costless knowledge and efficient markets).

    >
    > > Maybe. The key isssue is 'Is the economic infranstructure set up for
    jump-1,
    > > jump-2 or jump-3 ?'. If the infrastructure is set up for jump-2, then
    jump-3
    > > transport may attract quite a premium.
    >
    > The running costs of jump-2 and jump-3 seem to be very similar.  If
    > jump-3 drives were much more expensive, then that would have an
    > effect, since overall shipping costs seem to be dominated by the
    > capital cost of jump engines.  Since the relative costs of jump
    > engines depend on all sorts of other factors (such as exchange rates
    > and effects of TL on production), it looks messy.
    >

    Yes, it is messy. But it is the way it would work - the Sword Worlds would
    export a lot of Empress Marava class Far Traders to buy some of that nice
    TL15 military technology.

    It actually is pretty controllable, if you assume that the Imperial Credit
    is actually a TL12 currency. That way, the GT:FT freight prices dont jump
    around that much (although the cost of jump-1 freighters falls a lot, I dont
    think it falls enough to make them viable for other than specialist roles.
    But a viable specialist role is a jump-1 freighter with jump-2 tanks and
    battery boost-packs trading in risk-premium earning Outsystems. Jump in, do
    your business, and if anything is there that shouldnt be, get the flock out
    of there).

    >
    > > An irony of this is that jump-3 ships are often more useful on the
    fringes
    > > of the Imperium, where the route flexibility provided by the higher jump
    > > number allows you to dodge the more sub-standard facilities.
    >
    > Yes, this is what led my character in my current Traveller game to get
    > a jump-3 ship.  There are too many places that either can't be reached
    > with jump-2, or require refuelling at systems with class D starports.
    > (The ship also has collapsible fuel bladders in the hold for travel up
    > to 6 parsecs if necessary)
    >

    You do know that the 'refined fuel' prices are as broken as a lot of other
    things to do with trade. Given the cost of refining units that go on
    starships, D-class ports should have up to a couple of hundred dtons of
    refined LHyd available for about Cr350 per dton.

    >
    > > Ian Whitchurch (also a partner in crime with the McLean-Thrash gang)
    >
    > (Out of the blue question) Are you from Tasmania?
    >

    Yep :)

    Ian Whitchurch

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 17:36:14 +1100
    From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
    Subject: Re: Trade volume heresy

    On Sat, Dec 02, 2000 at 08:11:00AM +1100, Katharine Whitchurch wrote:
    > It doesnt skew them a lot, if you are primarily determining where
    > the trade routes are. It's pretty easy to determine what paths wont
    > make a 7.5 BTN.

    True enough.  The only thing is that small systems might have little
    local trade (due to small neighbours), but BTN 9+ worth of distant
    trade.  If you only look at local trade you might think it has no
    trade routes at all.

    > Piero Sraffa 'Production of Commodities by means of Commodities'.

    OK, a websearch on this name and title turned up a whole bunch of
    useful stuff.  Looks like exactly the sort of thing that would be very
    nifty as a base from which to extrapolate.  Certainly very few of the
    other theories of economics I've seen are suitable.  Too many low-tech
    assumptions.

    Now, I just have to digest it.  Good thing I know lots about matrix
    algebra :^)

    > It actually is pretty controllable, if you assume that the Imperial
    > Credit is actually a TL12 currency. That way, the GT:FT freight
    > prices dont jump around that much (although the cost of jump-1
    > freighters falls a lot, I dont think it falls enough to make them
    > viable for other than specialist roles.

    Pretty much what I would expect.  If you can build jump-1 engines
    there are too many other nifty things you could produce in exchange
    for better ones.

    > But a viable specialist role is a jump-1 freighter with jump-2 tanks and
    > battery boost-packs trading in risk-premium earning Outsystems. Jump in, do
    > your business, and if anything is there that shouldnt be, get the flock out
    > of there).

    My character's idea exactly, only with jump-3 engines, jump-4 tanks
    and potential extra fuel bladders.  On an astronomical scale, it
    doesn't take long to pump fuel to the main tanks if needed. :^)

    > You do know that the 'refined fuel' prices are as broken as a lot of
    > other things to do with trade.

    Very definitely.  Fuel processors are extremely cheap, and unrefined
    fuel is present in every system just waiting to be collected.

    > Given the cost of refining units that go on starships, D-class ports
    > should have up to a couple of hundred dtons of refined LHyd
    > available for about Cr350 per dton.

    I'm surprised the price would be that high.  I would have been sure
    that someone could make a profit turning megatonnes of H2 and H2O into
    refined H2 with specialised equipment.

    Hey, maybe that someone will be my character :^)

    > > (Out of the blue question) Are you from Tasmania?
    >
    > Yep :)

    I suspected so.  Are you running a Traveller game anywhere near
    Hobart?

    - --
    IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
    Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 10:05:48 -0000
    From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
    Subject: RE: Masses in the Universe

     Rimmer doesn't clean his socks with a hammer :)

    Dean

    - -----Original Message-----
    From: Brandon Cope
    To: traveller@lists.ient.com
    Sent: 12/2/00 4:25 PM
    Subject: Re: Masses in the Universe

    From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)

    >> P.S. If your looking to have fun with dwarfs, my favorite is the
    "Red"
    >> variety. ;-)
    >
    >Fine. *You* get to share a cabin with Lister.

    And exactly how is that better than bunking with Rimmer? ...

    Brandon

    ------------------------------

    End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3351
    ***********************************

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    From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)
    To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com
    Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3352
    Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com
    Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com
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    Precedence: bulk

    Traveller-digest      Sunday, December 3 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 3352

    (R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
    All rights reserved.

    The following topics are covered in this digest:

    Re: Masses in the Universe
    Re: Masses in the Universe
    Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    Re: Striker Artillery
    Navy Traditions in space
    Re: Deck plans
    Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    Re: Striker Artillery
    Re: Trade Volume Heresy
    Travel Zones
    Re: Travel Zones
    Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    Re: Deck plans
    Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    Re: Travel Zones
    RE: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    Re: Travel Zones
    Re: Navy Traditions in space
    Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 14:17:14 +0200 (EET)
    From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
    Subject: Re: Masses in the Universe

    On Sat, 2 Dec 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:
    > In mail you write:
    > > From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
    > >>> P.S. If your looking to have fun with dwarfs, my favorite is the "Red"
    > >>> variety. ;-)
    > >>Fine. *You* get to share a cabin with Lister.
    > > And exactly how is that better than bunking with Rimmer? ...
    > Wait a sec, do I have them backwards? I meant the one who *isn't* a
    > hologram. After all, you can get Holly to turn *him* off for a while if
    > you work at it.

    I could opt to bunk with Kochanski.

    Very far away from Lister...

    - --
    +++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
    <-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
    >-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
    <>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 14:18:28 +0200 (EET)
    From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
    Subject: Re: Masses in the Universe

    On Sat, 2 Dec 2000, Brandon Cope wrote:
    > Rimmer is the hologram (for most seasons). I could probably tolerate Lister
    > just slightly more than Rimmer.
    >

    How about Cat? I couldn't tolerate him...

    Nor Kryten, for that matter.

    - --
    +++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
    <-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
    >-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
    <>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 06:29:43
    From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
    Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    At 04:55 PM 12/2/2000 -0800, you wrote:

    >>     They will show up again, in a few years, Doug, but then they will go
    >>back in time to fight a major war.
    >
    >Along with the Penguin Not Born of Penguin.

    It is by herring alone I set my penguin in motion.
    It is by the oil of skate that flippers acquire speed,
    the beak acquires fish.
    The fish become a dinner.
    It is by herring alone I set my penguin in motion.
    - --

    Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com
      http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html

    "But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is that I am now a
    perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague here is rapidly running out of
    limbs!"  - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 11:34:05 -0800
    From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
    Subject: Re: Striker Artillery

    Hi Luther,

    Sounds pretty good.  Would you like to test it at the (as yet
    unspecified) December or January meets?

    To make the rule complete (for all/most Traveller conditions) I would
    add a few restrictions.  Maybe:

    - -Unless the artillery unit has a battle computer, it loses the RPs if it
    moves.
    - -The FO must be able to see the RP to get the +DM for it.  (It was an
    issue in the last game.)

    more to follow?

    Kristian

    Luther Martin wrote:
    >
    > If you attempt to use artillery in Striker, you quickly notice that it's not
    > very effective. Why? Well, for starters, you need to roll 31+ [That's not a
    > typo!] on 2d6 to get the "on target" result. Since you can't get this
    > without a big DM, you need to acculumulate those +1 or +2 DMs for every turn
    > of correction for quite a while, usually well past the end of a Striker
    > game.
    >
    > Since I want artillery to be used in the Striker game at DunDraCon in
    > February, I am trying to get a reasonable way to modify the artillery rules.
    > My first thought involves "registration points." Each forward observer gets
    > two [More? Less?] RPs which get plotted on a map before the game begins. So
    > you get to look at the terrain, guess where your opponent will be, and plan
    > your fire missions accordingly. Fire on a RP gets a net DM of +20, so a 2d7
    > roll of 7 gives you a 100 meter error from the RP.
    >
    > Since this will be a low-TL [TL 5] game, the fire direction center can't
    > just push buttons on their computer to make the required fire commands
    > appear. To model this, I am thinking of an additional one turn delay for
    > fire missions which are along the lines of "From RP 1, shift 200 meters
    > North," but with basically the same net DM. Maybe a net DM of +19 or +18 for
    > shifts from RPs.
    >
    > I would appreciate feedback from other Striker players on this concept and
    > ways to improve it.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 12:16:13 -0800 (PST)
    From: Bernie McGeehan <einreb62@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Navy Traditions in space

    This is clipped from a Reuters article about the
    docking of the shuttle & the space station:

    Shepherd and Jett, both graduates of the U.S. Naval
    Academy
         and active-duty Navy officers, had promised to
    institute some
         nautical traditions on this mission, perhaps
    reinforcing
         Shepherd's belief that a space station is like a
    ship, while shuttles
         are more like aircraft.

         Shepherd, who promised on Friday that his station
    would be
         ready in ``Bristol fashion'' for Endeavour's
    arrival, on Saturday
         called out to Jett that ``Romeo is at the dip.''
    He wasn't quoting
         Shakespeare. It seems that Navy ships fly a flag
    called Romeo at
         half mast to give permission for another ship to
    pull alongside.

    =====
    "I don't know much about what I like, but I do know Art."	me @ the Rijksmuseum, Amsterdam (Terra/Sol 3)http://prattfall.tripod.com/index.html

    __________________________________________________
    Do You Yahoo!?
    Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
    http://shopping.yahoo.com/

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 13:51:56 PST
    From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
    Subject: Re: Deck plans

    In mail you write:

    > From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com>
    >
    >>> Oh, and Babylon stations would be just peachy :-)
    >>
    >>Yeah, but the plans are kinda bulky. Remember, those things are 5
    >>*miles* long. :-)
    >
    >     So, do them to scale, say large enough that they are not too bulky, but
    > small enough that no details are left out.

    Oh, I see, you want to issue the players microscopes... :-)

    - --
    Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
     shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
    leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 13:53:34 PST
    From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
    Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    In mail you write:

    > From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com>
    >
    >>>>How about deckplans for an AHL? :>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>     Yes please, as well as the Armored Cruiser from Fighting Ships.
    >>
    >>You guys want plans to Babylon 4 & 5 while you are at it?
    >
    >
    > Leonard,
    >
    >     Do you really have to ask?  Of course we do, along with the Enterprise
    > (NCC-1701, NCC-1701-A, B, C, D, & E), the Death Star, the Sulaco, & quite a
    > few others.

    The plans to the NCC-1701 are available, though pricey (I have the old
    Franz Joseph Designs deckplans :-). The later versions are available as
    well.

    The Death Star is worse than B4 & B5. Last time I did the calcs (based
    on measuring things off the screen of a 20" TV) I came out with
    something like 20 km diameter, IIRC.

    So, assuming the decks average 10 meters apart, that's 2000 decks. With
    the biggest ones being 300 sq. km!

    - --
    Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
     shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
    leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 14:01:41 PST
    From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
    Subject: Re: Striker Artillery

    In mail you write:

    > Hi Luther,
    >
    > Sounds pretty good.  Would you like to test it at the (as yet
    > unspecified) December or January meets?
    >
    > To make the rule complete (for all/most Traveller conditions) I would
    > add a few restrictions.  Maybe:
    >
    > -Unless the artillery unit has a battle computer, it loses the RPs if it
    > moves.

    Unless it moves to a previously prepared position. (Ie you "register"
    the guns from a *number* of positions, so you can fall back and still
    get the bonus).

    Obviously, this requires more preparation. How much depends on TL.

    - --
    Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
     shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
    leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 14:06:38 PST
    From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
    Subject: Re: Trade Volume Heresy

    In mail you write:

    > On 12/02/00 at 02:22 AM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:
    >
    >>In mail you write:
    >
    >>> Leonard Erickson wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Check your Win98 CD. If you dig into it, I'm pretty sure you'll find
    >>>> QBASIC on one of the subdirectories.
    >>>
    >>> Oh, is QBASIC on the Win98 CD?  I didn't know, that's great news!
    >
    >>Well, I haven't checked. I know it's on the win95 CD.
    >>
    >>Ok, I just checked. It's in \TOOLS\OLDMSDOS\
    >
    > Yeah, I found it. Installed it on my computer at work. Now I can tinker with
    > my old friend, BASIC, again. <g>

    Yeah, I find BASIC for handy anything that's too tedious for a
    calculator, but not going to be done often enough to set up a
    spreadsheet (or that's better suited to a program than to a
    spreadsheet).

    One of these days I'll dig into things and get the old FORTRAN compiler
    running again. And if I have a *lot* of time on my hands, I'll learn
    APL so I can use *that* interpreter. :-)

    >>Sort of strange searching a Win98SE CD on an OS/2 box. :-)
    >
    > Hee, hee yeah. I know what you mean.

    Well, the OS/2 box was "free", the Win 98 box was busy, and the Mac
    wasn't turned on. And the DOS box doesn't have a CD...

    - --
    Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
     shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
    leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 16:26:20 -0600
    From: "Shimmergloom" <dragon@mhtc.net>
    Subject: Travel Zones

    This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

    - ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C05D45.C508F8C0
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    	charset="iso-8859-1"
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    I have a couple of questions about travel zones.

    1)  Is there a system or formula or base percent chance for a system be =
    a travel zone other than green.

    2)  Does anybody actualy use the Black Travel from some old issue of =
    White Wolf magazine (I think).  It was a completely forbidden system =
    that was not even supposed to be placed on official starmaps due to =
    matters of Imperial Security.

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    <STYLE></STYLE>
    </HEAD>
    <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I&nbsp;have a couple of questions about =
    travel=20
    zones.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>1)&nbsp; Is there a system or formula =
    or base=20
    percent chance for a system be a travel zone other than =
    green.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>2)&nbsp; Does anybody actualy use the =
    Black Travel=20
    from some old issue of&nbsp;White Wolf magazine&nbsp;(I think).&nbsp; It =
    was a=20
    completely forbidden system that was not even supposed to be placed on =
    official=20
    starmaps due to matters of Imperial Security.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

    - ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C05D45.C508F8C0--

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 15:11:55
    From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
    Subject: Re: Travel Zones

    At 04:26 PM 12/3/2000 -0600, you wrote:
    >I have a couple of questions about travel zones.
    >
    >1)  Is there a system or formula or base percent chance for a system be a
    >travel zone other than green.

    Usually, Starport X means a Red Zone.  MegaTraveller had a matrix for cross
    referencing high government and law levels to get a zone, but it was rather
    useless.

    I always assigned them to further a plot point.  One Amber Zone world in my
    campaign was listed that way for extreme sexism.  Women weren't anything
    better than property, and men had the legal right to kill any woman
    breaking the extensive rules for proper behavoir.  Now drop one of my
    wife's typical characters onto that planet...

    >2)  Does anybody actualy use the Black Travel from some old issue of White
    >Wolf magazine (I think).  It was a completely forbidden system that was not
    >even supposed to be placed on official starmaps due to matters of Imperial
    >Security.

    How are you going to hide the star?  Or prevent people from jumping there
    if they observe it?

    - --

    Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
    http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 15:13:46 -0800
    From: Gordon Horne <gordon.horne@home.com>
    Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    >The Death Star is worse than B4 & B5. Last time I did the calcs (based
    >on measuring things off the screen of a 20" TV) I came out with
    >something like 20 km diameter, IIRC.
    >
    >So, assuming the decks average 10 meters apart, that's 2000 decks. With
    >the biggest ones being 300 sq. km!
    >

    Your figures are a little off.  8^)

    >Death Star (Imperial)
    >Custom Deep Space Battle Station
    >
    >In an Empire ruled through fear, nothing symbolized Emperor
    >Palpatine's oppression better than the infamous Death Star battle
    >station. However, the Death Star also represented the Empire's
    >greatest weakness: the tendency to consider technology supreme, and
    >to underestimate its foes. This weakness resulted in the first Death
    >Star's destruction over Yavin, although not before it had destroyed
    >the peaceful world of Alderaan, killing billions of innocent people.
    >
    >The Death Star was conceived by Grand Moff Tarkin and approved by
    >the Emperor. Drawing on concepts pioneered at many secret military
    >installations, Chief Engineer Bevel Lemelisk designed the massive
    >space station. The Death Star was commanded by Tarkin, but Lord
    >Darth Vader served as the Emperor's emissary and wielded the widest
    >possible authority to enforce the Emperor's will.
    >
    >The Death Star's centerpiece was an awesome, planet-destroying
    >superlaser. The weapon was used only twice: first to destroy the
    >penal world of Despayre (where the Death Star was built) and second
    >to obliterate Alderaan.
    >
    >Everything about the Death Star boggles the imagination. At 120
    >kilometers in diameter, it was the size of a Class IV moon and was
    >the largest starship ever built (at least until the construction of
    >the larger second  Death Star). Fully half of the battle station's
    >interior was filled by the reactor core, the sublight and hyperdrive
    >systems, and the superlaser housing.
    >
    >The station had a crew of over 265,000 soldiers. Gunners, ground
    >troops, starship support crew, and pilots brought the total onboard
    >personnel to nearly 1 million beings. Even more amazing, these
    >figures indicated minimum  crew standards.
    >
    >For weaponry, in addition to the superlaser, the Death Star had
    >15,000 capital ship turbolasers and over 700 tractor beam
    >projectors. These projectors could capture virtually any ship and,
    >when working in conjunction with one another, could reel in even an
    >Imperial Star Destroyer. The Death Star also maintained an awesome
    >array of support ships and vehicles, with 7,000 TIE fighters, four
    >strike cruisers, over 20,000 military and transport vessels, and
    >over 11,000 combat vehicles.
    >
    >Despite all these awesome advantages, simple errors doomed the
    >station. First, the Death Star's defenses were built around the idea
    >of repelling a capital ship attack; starfighters were considered
    >"insignificant" by Imperial military strategists. And when the
    >Alliance mounted its assault over Yavin, the Rebels could send only
    >two squadrons each of X-wing and Y-wing fighters. Grand Moff Tarkin
    >considered the attack inconsequential. He refused to launch TIE
    >fighters in defense of the station, and only the TIE fighters under
    >Lord Vader's direct command were deployed against the Alliance's
    >fighters.
    >
    >As a result of those errors of arrogance, the mightiest weapon in
    >the history of the galaxy was destroyed by a simple proton torpedo
    >fired down an unshielded exhaust vent. This Achilles' heel allowed
    >the Empire's enemies to detonate the Death Star's power core and win
    >the day.

    Death Star II was even larger, of course. One of the West End Games'
    Star Wars RPG supplements had a schematic of one of the Death Stars
    which showed that the decks were concentric shells around the coure
    with down towards the center of the station.

    Has anyone worked the Death Star up in HG2, FFSv1 or FFSv2?

    TTFN
           g

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 16:12:12 -0700
    From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
    Subject: Re: Deck plans

    From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com>

    >>     So, do them to scale, say large enough that they are not too bulky,
    but
    >> small enough that no details are left out.
    >
    >Oh, I see, you want to issue the players microscopes... :-)

        Len, please do not leave me any openings like that, in the future....
        I could have said that as a GM, I sometimes need a microscope to find
    what players call brains.  I could have said as a Player, I sometimes need a
    microscope to find what the GM calls brains.

        I bid you peace.

    Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
    ICQ # 8973001
    legate@futureone.com

    "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
    places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
    passes. Entil'zha Veni!"

    "I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
    USS Excaliber.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 16:14:20 -0700
    From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
    Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com>

    >>     Do you really have to ask?  Of course we do, along with the
    Enterprise
    >> (NCC-1701, NCC-1701-A, B, C, D, & E), the Death Star, the Sulaco, & quite
    a
    >> few others.
    >
    >The plans to the NCC-1701 are available, though pricey (I have the old
    >Franz Joseph Designs deckplans :-). The later versions are available as
    >well.

        Ah, but I want canon deckplans...  And, though the Franz Joseph ones are
    good, they are not canon, like the NCC-1701-D ones that were put out a few
    years ago.
        Btw, add DS9 & Voyager to that list.  I want to find out where they are
    storing all of the shuttles they have on it.

    >The Death Star is worse than B4 & B5. Last time I did the calcs (based
    >on measuring things off the screen of a 20" TV) I came out with
    >something like 20 km diameter, IIRC.
    >
    >So, assuming the decks average 10 meters apart, that's 2000 decks. With
    >the biggest ones being 300 sq. km!

        So its about the size of a small moon?

        I bid you peace.

    Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
    ICQ # 8973001
    legate@futureone.com

    "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
    places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
    passes. Entil'zha Veni!"

    "I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
    USS Excaliber.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 16:49:01 -0700
    From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
    Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>

    >It is by herring alone I set my penguin in motion.
    >It is by the oil of skate that flippers acquire speed,
    >the beak acquires fish.
    >The fish become a dinner.
    >It is by herring alone I set my penguin in motion.

        You know Doug, you sound like a Mentat Penguin now.

        I bid you peace.

    Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
    ICQ # 8973001
    legate@futureone.com

    "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
    places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
    passes. Entil'zha Veni!"

    "I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
    USS Excaliber.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 16:55:30 -0700
    From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
    Subject: Re: Travel Zones

    From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>

    >I always assigned them to further a plot point.  One Amber Zone world in my
    >campaign was listed that way for extreme sexism.  Women weren't anything
    >better than property, and men had the legal right to kill any woman
    >breaking the extensive rules for proper behavoir.  Now drop one of my
    >wife's typical characters onto that planet...

        Doug, was there a world like that except it was men weren't anything
    better that property?  And, if so, how would one of your wife's typical
    characters react?

    >>2)  Does anybody actualy use the Black Travel from some old issue of White
    >>Wolf magazine (I think).  It was a completely forbidden system that was
    not
    >>even supposed to be placed on official starmaps due to matters of Imperial
    >>Security.
    >
    >How are you going to hide the star?  Or prevent people from jumping there
    >if they observe it?

        Or keep the party away from it?  It seems to me that if a party can
    detect a system, & it isn't on the starcharts, they will go there.

        I bid you peace.

    Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
    ICQ # 8973001
    legate@futureone.com

    "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
    places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
    passes. Entil'zha Veni!"

    "I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
    USS Excaliber.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 00:37:19 -0000
    From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
    Subject: RE: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    FYI:  When FASA had the Star Trek RPG licence they  put  out  the
    Enterprise (NCC-1701) and the Klingon D-7  deck  plans  as  boxed
    sets.  Both are 15mm scale and well  detailed  (including  having
    the Federation logo or Klingon trifoil (as appropriate)  on  each
    bed sheet!  I picked them up a couple of years ago  at  Gencon UK
    from "Travelling Man" for GBP 15.00 each (somewhat battered boxes
    but good inside).  You may be able to pick them up  on  the  2nd-
    hand market.

    Pocket Books did a boxed set  of  Enterprise  (NCC-1701-D)  plans
    (auth. Rick Sternbach)  which  appear  to  be  about  5mm  scale.
    Retailing at GBP 15.00 new.

    I also have a vague recollection that FASA also had a  Regula-One
    space station (from Wrath of Khan) boxed set of 15mm plans but  I
    haven't seen it.

    Specifically for Traveller: FASA's  King  Richard  liner  is  the
    largest plans I've seen after the AHL.

    Regards PLST

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 19:46:05 -0500
    From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net>
    Subject: Re: Travel Zones

    Was asked regards"

    >>>2)  Does anybody actualy use the Black Travel from some old issue of
    White
    >>>Wolf magazine (I think).  It was a completely forbidden system that was
    >not
    >>>even supposed to be placed on official starmaps due to matters of
    Imperial
    >>>Security.

    The replies were:

    >>How are you going to hide the star?  Or prevent people from jumping there
    >>if they observe it?
    >    Or keep the party away from it?  It seems to me that if a party can
    >detect a system, & it isn't on the starcharts, they will go there.

    It seems to me that if it isn't on the charts it's kind of hidden in plain
    sight.    I see jump routes as a bit like riding the train.  You use them to
    get from station to station and the stuff in between is the blur in between.
    Only Scouts are likely to notice an anomalous system in a fringe region not
    on the charts and only if the are doing a survey, virtually everyone else
    follows the charts without "looking out the window" to see if something was
    missed.  Thus, who is going to notice a system a jump or two away from
    minimally inhabited or unihabited system?

    Dan

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 20:27:59 -0500
    From: "Dan Lane" <danielrlane@home.com>
    Subject: Re: Navy Traditions in space

    I ran a scenario with this while a IN cruiser was conrepping with a fleet
    carrier.  The sequence is not too elaborate, but essential to ensuring that
    two ships are prepared to receive each other alongside.  Glad to see some
    Navy traditions out on the final frontier.  Paves the way for the IN.

    - -Dan Lane
    - ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Bernie McGeehan" <einreb62@yahoo.com>
    To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>
    Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 3:16 PM
    Subject: Navy Traditions in space

    > This is clipped from a Reuters article about the
    > docking of the shuttle & the space station:
    >

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 17:54:27 PST
    From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
    Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    In mail you write:

    >>The Death Star is worse than B4 & B5. Last time I did the calcs (based
    >>on measuring things off the screen of a 20" TV) I came out with
    >>something like 20 km diameter, IIRC.
    >>
    >>So, assuming the decks average 10 meters apart, that's 2000 decks. With
    >>the biggest ones being 300 sq. km!

    > Your figures are a little off.  8^)

    Nope. If, as the text you quote states, the Death Star was 120 km in
    diameter, then the folks doing the special effects goofed big time.
    Because the models they built aren't scaled for that.

    Check it yourself. Freeze frame the DS, and measure the following:

    1. Ratio of diameter of the DS to the width of the central trench.
    2. Ratio of the width of the central trench to the height of the hangar
       entrance.
    3. ratio of the height of the hangar entrance to the thickness of the
       Millenium Falcon.

    Then stick the thickness of the MF into the above and see what figures
    *you* get. It won't even be *close* to 120 km!

    > Death Star II was even larger, of course. One of the West End Games'
    > Star Wars RPG supplements had a schematic of one of the Death Stars
    > which showed that the decks were concentric shells around the coure
    > with down towards the center of the station.

    Which doesn't match the hangar bay layout. :-)

    There would have to be some "concentric shell" decks for the outer hull
    defenses. But the hangar bays off the central trench obviously have
    gravity perpendicular to the polar axis.

    Swithching from one to the other is a nuisance. And I suspect that
    "flat" decks would be chosen for most of the ship, simply because they
    are easier for people to orient themselves to (ie build a mental map of
    where things are in relation to each other).

    - --
    Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
     shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
    leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

    ------------------------------

    End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3352
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    From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)
    To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com
    Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3353
    Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com
    Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com
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    Precedence: bulk

    Traveller-digest      Sunday, December 3 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 3353

    (R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
    All rights reserved.

    The following topics are covered in this digest:

    Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    Re: Travel Zones
    Re: Travel Zones
    Re: Travel Zones
    A Schlock Christmas
    Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    Re: Travel Zones
    Re: Travel Zones
    Re: Travel Zones
    RE: Beard/glasses
    Deckplans for the big stuff
    Re: Travel Zones
    RE: Striker Artillery
    Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 18:04:19 PST
    From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
    Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    In mail you write:

    > From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com>
    >
    >>>     Do you really have to ask?  Of course we do, along with the
    > Enterprise
    >>> (NCC-1701, NCC-1701-A, B, C, D, & E), the Death Star, the Sulaco, & quite
    > a
    >>> few others.
    >>
    >>The plans to the NCC-1701 are available, though pricey (I have the old
    >>Franz Joseph Designs deckplans :-). The later versions are available as
    >>well.
    >
    >     Ah, but I want canon deckplans...  And, though the Franz Joseph ones are
    > good, they are not canon, like the NCC-1701-D ones that were put out a few
    > years ago.

    The Franz Joseph plans were considered canon at the time they came out.
    :-)

    - --
    Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
     shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
    leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 18:32:42 PST
    From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
    Subject: Re: Travel Zones

    In mail you write:

    > 2)  Does anybody actualy use the Black Travel from some old issue of
    > White Wolf magazine (I think).  It was a completely forbidden system
    > that was not even supposed to be placed on official starmaps due to
    > matters of Imperial Security.

    <sigh>

    Sorry, but that's not *possible* anywhere in "known space" except maybe
    Dark Nebula sector.

    With space based observatories, or even a decent telescope on a ship,
    you can see even dim stars for many parsecs. And observations from
    several hexes will pin down the location of any stars within jump range
    quite easily.

    So all that leaving a star off an official map will do is tell anybody
    with a telescope that you are trying to hide something. It'll actually
    *call attention* to the star.

    - --
    Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
     shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
    leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 18:46:10 PST
    From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
    Subject: Re: Travel Zones

    In mail you write:

    >>>How are you going to hide the star?  Or prevent people from jumping there
    >>>if they observe it?
    >>    Or keep the party away from it?  It seems to me that if a party can
    >>detect a system, & it isn't on the starcharts, they will go there.
    >
    >
    > It seems to me that if it isn't on the charts it's kind of hidden in plain
    > sight.    I see jump routes as a bit like riding the train.  You use them to
    > get from station to station and the stuff in between is the blur in between.
    > Only Scouts are likely to notice an anomalous system in a fringe region not
    > on the charts and only if the are doing a survey, virtually everyone else
    > follows the charts without "looking out the window" to see if something was
    > missed.  Thus, who is going to notice a system a jump or two away from
    > minimally inhabited or unihabited system?

    In "fringe" regions, you'll have optimistic fre traders making their
    *own* maps, hoping to find a star that isn't charted, because that's an
    opportunity to get there and see if there's anything valuable before
    the Imperium (or whoever) can negotiate a treaty that might limit the
    trader's options.

    And sorry, but the astrogators *do* look out the window. How do you
    think they get the ship aimed in the right direction and positioned? By
    taking sightings on stars.

    And in fringe areas that are likely to have lousy (or no) beacons and
    navigational aids, you'll be making lots of star shots simply to
    confirm that you are in the right system, and to figure out which way
    to the planet.

    In essence, leaving a star off the charts is like leaving a mountain
    off a county map. People are going to notice.

    To "hide in plain sight" you need to have the star on the chart and
    listed as having no planets and no minor bodies worth trying to refuel
    from inside of the cometary belt.

    That way, anybody trying to use the system as a shortcut, or emergency
    refueling point is likely to aim for whatever body in the outer (say
    200+ AUs from the star) system you have listed. Which will keep them
    from trying to find a comet or whatever on their own (which would
    almost certainly result in their spotting the planets).

    - --
    Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
     shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
    leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 18:37:27 PST
    From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
    Subject: Re: Travel Zones

    In mail you write:

    >>> 2)  Does anybody actualy use the Black Travel from some old issue
    >>>     of White Wolf magazine (I think).  It was a completely
    >>>     forbidden system that was not even supposed to be placed on
    >>>     official starmaps due to matters of Imperial Security.
    >>
    >> How are you going to hide the star?  Or prevent people from jumping
    >> there if they observe it?
    >
    >     Or keep the party away from it?  It seems to me that if a party can
    > detect a system, & it isn't on the starcharts, they will go there.

    And given the easy access to space in Traveller, amatuer astronomers
    will discover it the first time they run an asteroid or comet hunting
    program.

    For those who don't know, the general approach is to use your telescope
    and "camera" to take a pictire of a chunk of sky, and have your
    computer eliminate all "known" objects.  The remaining ones are usually
    asteroids or comets. You confirm this by taking more pictures at
    intervals of a few days or weeks, and checking for motion.

    If it moves, you've got an asteroid or comet. If it doesn't move, but
    changes brightness, you've got a nova, supernova, or variable star that
    wasn't listed as variable in your info.

    Anything that isn't moving *and* doesn't change brightness means that
    there's a star missing from your charts, and a typical amateur
    astronomer will communicate this to all his buddies, in system and in
    other systems. Once they confirm it, they'll all spread the word of the
    error as well as report it.

    You *can't* shut up that many people, fast enough.

    ps. Actually, in traveller, another possibility for a moving object is
    a new space facility, but it'd have to be big and well lit to show up
    in visible light. In IR, it'll stand out nicely.

    - --
    Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
     shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
    leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 13:54:51 +1100
    From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
    Subject: A Schlock Christmas

    Dear Folks -

    Stolen from Schlock Mercenary's comic (http://www.schlockmercenary.com/)
    for Sunday, December 3, 2000:

    ====================
    Open Letter, December 1, 2000: Sung to the tune of "Jingle Bells," I offer
    you this mercenary Christmas message...

    Dashing through the snow
    with winter-combat kit
    O'er the fields we go
    trying hard not to get hit!

    Warning klaxons ring
    muzzles flash so bright
    what a shiny glorious thing
    is a winter fire-fight!

    Unleash Hells!
    Cordite smells!
    Enemies blown away!
    Oh what fun it is to live
    to see another day, HEY!

    Jangling bells
    incoming shells!
    You know what they say...
    He who fights and runs away
    lives to fight another day!

    I hope that gets you in the Christmas spirit. Try singing it out loud, and
    imagine yourself repelling invading aliens while wearing power armor in
    deep, alpine snowdrifts. With holly!

    Copyright 2000 Howard Tayler
    ====================

    - ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
    http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
    "I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
    - ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
    of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
    position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
    - ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 20:54:52 -0700
    From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
    Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    From: Trevor, Peter <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>

    >FYI:  When FASA had the Star Trek RPG licence they  put  out  the
    >Enterprise (NCC-1701) and the Klingon D-7  deck  plans  as  boxed
    >sets.  Both are 15mm scale and well  detailed  (including  having
    >the Federation logo or Klingon trifoil (as appropriate)  on  each
    >bed sheet!  I picked them up a couple of years ago  at  Gencon UK
    >from "Travelling Man" for GBP 15.00 each (somewhat battered boxes
    >but good inside).  You may be able to pick them up  on  the  2nd-
    >hand market.

        I already have them, but they are not considered CANON.  Much like JG
    stuff is no longer Traveller CANON.
        Great deck plans btw & the D-7 is still useable in LUG TNG RPG games.

    >Pocket Books did a boxed set  of  Enterprise  (NCC-1701-D)  plans
    >(auth. Rick Sternbach)  which  appear  to  be  about  5mm  scale.
    >Retailing at GBP 15.00 new.

        Have them, but I also want a boxed set of Enterprise NCC-1701-A
    (Slightly different than the NCC-1701 Plans), NCC-1701-B, NCC-1701-C, &
    NCC-1701-E.

    >I also have a vague recollection that FASA also had a  Regula-One
    >space station (from Wrath of Khan) boxed set of 15mm plans but  I
    >haven't seen it.

        I think they were produced, but I have never seen a copy of them.

    >Specifically for Traveller: FASA's  King  Richard  liner  is  the
    >largest plans I've seen after the AHL.

        Take a look at the plans for JG's Singing Star Class Liner.

        I bid you peace.

    Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
    ICQ # 8973001
    legate@futureone.com

    "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
    places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
    passes. Entil'zha Veni!"

    "I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
    USS Excaliber.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 20:51:36 -0700
    From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
    Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com>

    >>>The plans to the NCC-1701 are available, though pricey (I have the old
    >>>Franz Joseph Designs deckplans :-). The later versions are available as
    >>>well.
    >>
    >>     Ah, but I want canon deckplans...  And, though the Franz Joseph ones
    are
    >> good, they are not canon, like the NCC-1701-D ones that were put out a
    few
    >> years ago.
    >
    >The Franz Joseph plans were considered canon at the time they came out.
    >:-)

        By the fans, yes, but by Paramount, no.
        To be honest with you, Leonard 6, I like the Franz Joseph plans.  A
    while back I got ahold of one of those poster displays from a KMart when
    they closed one down & I put the Franz Joseph plans of the NCC-1701
    Constitution Class Enterprise in it & I used to run my FASA Trek games using
    it & I use them for my LUG TOS RPG games.  But, then Rodenberry declared
    them, along with TAS non-canon, sorta the same way Marc Miller & Loren
    Wiseman declared the Sectors Judges Guild did non-canon.
        That doesn't mean I don't like, it just means I want a full & complete
    set of plans that are considered canon, by everyone.
        Yes, I also own the plans that Franz Joseph did for the Hermes
    Scout/Saladin Destroyer & Ptolomy Tug.

        I bid you peace.

    Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
    ICQ # 8973001
    legate@futureone.com

    "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
    places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
    passes. Entil'zha Veni!"

    "I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
    USS Excaliber.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 21:02:12 -0700
    From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
    Subject: Re: Travel Zones

    From: Daniel Phelps <phelpsd@gate.net>

    >>>How are you going to hide the star?  Or prevent people from jumping there
    >>>if they observe it?
    >>    Or keep the party away from it?  It seems to me that if a party can
    >>detect a system, & it isn't on the starcharts, they will go there.

    >It seems to me that if it isn't on the charts it's kind of hidden in plain
    >sight.    I see jump routes as a bit like riding the train.  You use them
    to
    >get from station to station and the stuff in between is the blur in
    between.
    >Only Scouts are likely to notice an anomalous system in a fringe region not
    >on the charts and only if the are doing a survey, virtually everyone else
    >follows the charts without "looking out the window" to see if something was
    >missed.  Thus, who is going to notice a system a jump or two away from
    >minimally inhabited or unihabited system?

    Dan,

        In Canon Traveller you can buy a one-use Jump Program between two
    systems, IIRC, I am sure the Traveller Gurus will let me know about this.
        Now, are you forgetting about Speeders & Air/Rafts?  IIRC, a Speeder can
    make orbit in one hour & an Air/Raft can make orbit in a few hours.
        Now with the ease of access to space that either a Speeder or an
    Air/Raft can create for anyone, then add in a decent quality telescope & a
    camera.  And, anyone can map a region of space in a few days.
        So you take the pics of an area of space & remove every known object,
    then any unknown objects will bear closer inspection to find out what they
    are.  Asteroid, comet, rogue planet, or system.  Then take away the
    Asteroids, comets, rogue planets, & what have you got left?  Unknown
    systems.
        And, how will the Imperium control the purchase of Air/Rafts or
    Speeders, Telescopes, & Cameras?

        I bid you peace.

    Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
    ICQ # 8973001
    legate@futureone.com

    "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
    places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
    passes. Entil'zha Veni!"

    "I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
    USS Excaliber.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 21:08:13 -0700
    From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
    Subject: Re: Travel Zones

    From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com>

    >In "fringe" regions, you'll have optimistic fre traders making their
    >*own* maps, hoping to find a star that isn't charted, because that's an
    >opportunity to get there and see if there's anything valuable before
    >the Imperium (or whoever) can negotiate a treaty that might limit the
    >trader's options.

        And, then also a monopoly in the Free Trader's favor is always a good
    thing.

    >And sorry, but the astrogators *do* look out the window. How do you
    >think they get the ship aimed in the right direction and positioned? By
    >taking sightings on stars.

        And, in the grand old days before satelights, navigators did the same
    thing.
        My father was a Bombadier/Navigator/Gunner in WWII & he used to take
    star sightings to make sure they were on the right course to bomb Japanese
    Cities before the raid & after the raid to make sure they were on the right
    way home.
        I also seem to recall that the explorers did it in the Grand Age of
    Sail, so it is a time tested way of doing things.  If you know where Star A,
    Star B, & Star C are then you must be at Star D.

    >And in fringe areas that are likely to have lousy (or no) beacons and
    >navigational aids, you'll be making lots of star shots simply to
    >confirm that you are in the right system, and to figure out which way
    >to the planet.
    >
    >In essence, leaving a star off the charts is like leaving a mountain
    >off a county map. People are going to notice.

        I know I would.
        < LL walks along & sees a large mountain that was not there yesterday &
    he notices it. >

    >To "hide in plain sight" you need to have the star on the chart and
    >listed as having no planets and no minor bodies worth trying to refuel
    >from inside of the cometary belt.

        Of course you can detect a Gas Giant from 1 or 2 Parsecs away, IIRC, so
    it would have to be in the middle of a Rift before anyone would ignore it.

    >That way, anybody trying to use the system as a shortcut, or emergency
    >refueling point is likely to aim for whatever body in the outer (say
    >200+ AUs from the star) system you have listed. Which will keep them
    >from trying to find a comet or whatever on their own (which would
    >almost certainly result in their spotting the planets).

        And, if they are spouting radio traffic, then it will be found, no
    matter what you do.

        I bid you peace.

    Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
    ICQ # 8973001
    legate@futureone.com

    "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
    places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
    passes. Entil'zha Veni!"

    "I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
    USS Excaliber.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 21:10:24 -0700
    From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
    Subject: Re: Travel Zones

    From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com>

    >Sorry, but that's not *possible* anywhere in "known space" except maybe
    >Dark Nebula sector.

        Or maybe a Reft area?

    >With space based observatories, or even a decent telescope on a ship,
    >you can see even dim stars for many parsecs. And observations from
    >several hexes will pin down the location of any stars within jump range
    >quite easily.

        Hell, think Air/Raft, a decent telescope, good camera & a weekend
    off....

    >So all that leaving a star off an official map will do is tell anybody
    >with a telescope that you are trying to hide something. It'll actually
    >*call attention* to the star.

        And, then you are in for it.  Local Imperial Nobles will want to know
    why someone is hiding a star.

        I bid you peace.

    Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
    ICQ # 8973001
    legate@futureone.com

    "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
    places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
    passes. Entil'zha Veni!"

    "I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
    USS Excaliber.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 15:03:12 +1000
    From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au
    Subject: RE: Beard/glasses

    On Sat, 2 Dec 2000
    "Frank G. Pitt" wrote:
    >
    >OTOH, I also game with a couple of gals who, for the last roleplaying
    >weekend we organized, which always has one major live, in-costume, game on
    >the Saturday night, wore costumes like whats-her-face-multi-pass from "Fifth
    >Element" and Trinity from Matrix, and made them look real good.
    >
    >Frankie

    Mental Note: I must remember to get to more New Zealand Cons...
    Graeme
    ________________________________________________________________________________
    Madonna (date unknown): Solomani religious icon and philosopher.
    Most famous quote, on Phenomenology : "We are living in a material world, and I
    am a material girl."
          --Library Data

    ######################################################################
    Attention:
    This e-mail is privileged and confidential. If you are not the
    intended recipient please delete the message and notify the sender.
    Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author.
    ######################################################################

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 23:16:05 EST
    From: GypsyComet@aol.com
    Subject: Deckplans for the big stuff

    >>You guys want plans to Babylon 4 & 5 while you are at it?
    >
    >
    >    Do you really have to ask?  Of course we do, along with the Enterprise
    >(NCC-1701, NCC-1701-A, B, C, D, & E), the Death Star, the Sulaco, & quite a
    >few others.

     Hmm. I have the Enterprise TOS and Enterprise-D deckplans sitting on the
    bookshelf already. The 1701-A plans were also done, but not to the
    comprehensive standards of the other two. The starbase and tugpods from the
    original Technical Manual are nice, too.
     As I understand it, the TOS Enterprise plans were canon until Paramount
    tried to exercise rights they didn't have and Franz Joseph Designs called 'em
    on it. This led directly to two things: new Enterprises for the movies and
    ST:TNG, and no appearances of the old one in any form until the footage
    reused in DS9.
     The Sulaco would be nice, but I could fake something up from the cut-away
    and side shots in the Technical Manual as well as the model I paid too much
    for...
     B5 station is easier than it sounds, but still a big job. The B5 Security
    Briefing gives almost enough info and map bits to make it work.  Same with
    DS9.

     As far as Star Wars goes, I'd find the Star Destroyer more useful than the
    Death Stars, and would love to see the Federation's Droid Control Ship and
    both Diplomatic ships (the one blown up early, and the Chancelor's ship at
    the end).
     Most wanted from B5 would go to the White Star and Excalibur.
     Other useful/neat plans for the wish list: The arcology ship from Silent
    Running, a "Garden" from Final Fantasy 8, the Yamato/Argo, the Sol Bianca,
    the Bebop (from Cowboy Bebop; if you have not seen this anime, do so), the
    Star Leaf (from Gall Force) and its various subsystems, a Kazon Clanship, the
    three human ships from Titan A.E., any Eldar destroyer from Battlefleet
    Gothic, and the whole ragtag fleet following the Galactica...

    GC

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 22:25:08 -0600
    From: Brandon Cope <copeab@elc.net>
    Subject: Re: Travel Zones

    Daniel Phelps wrote:

    > Was asked regards"
    >
    > >>>2)  Does anybody actualy use the Black Travel from some old issue of
    > White
    > >>>Wolf magazine (I think).  It was a completely forbidden system that was
    > >not
    > >>>even supposed to be placed on official starmaps due to matters of
    > Imperial
    > >>>Security.
    >
    > The replies were:
    >
    > >>How are you going to hide the star?  Or prevent people from jumping there
    > >>if they observe it?
    > >    Or keep the party away from it?  It seems to me that if a party can
    > >detect a system, & it isn't on the starcharts, they will go there.
    >
    > It seems to me that if it isn't on the charts it's kind of hidden in plain
    > sight.    I see jump routes as a bit like riding the train.  You use them to
    > get from station to station and the stuff in between is the blur in between.
    > Only Scouts are likely to notice an anomalous system in a fringe region not
    > on the charts and only if the are doing a survey, virtually everyone else
    > follows the charts without "looking out the window" to see if something was
    > missed.  Thus, who is going to notice a system a jump or two away from
    > minimally inhabited or unihabited system?

    It could just be listed as a star with no planets, and thereby worthless to
    anyone. I don't think that the average merchant ship is going to carry sensors
    for detecting planets 1+ parsec away (Why should they? They don't need to).
    Imperial warships may be present in the system to destroy any unauthorized ship
    that enters the system; I would assume that the crews would have to have higher
    security clearances than normal naval personnel.

    A generous and sadistic GM,
    Brandon Cope

    http://www.geocities.com/copeab
    *** Added: adventure seeds and Traveller page ***

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 20:19:47 -0800
    From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
    Subject: RE: Striker Artillery

    Leonard Erickson wrote:

    > > -Unless the artillery unit has a battle computer, it loses the RPs if it
    > > moves.
    >
    > Unless it moves to a previously prepared position. (Ie you "register"
    > the guns from a *number* of positions, so you can fall back and still
    > get the bonus).
    >
    > Obviously, this requires more preparation. How much depends on TL.

    My limited experience with TL 7-8 artillery (M110A2s) tells me that this
    won't really work. You would have to occupy the exact same firing position
    that you did when you registered to make it work. On the other hand, at
    higher TLs you should have very precise information (things like GPS) about
    the locations of the guns, observer, and target, so you should be much
    closer to the target on your first round than Striker indicates. Even today,
    if you know where everything is, you can expect to be very close to the
    intended target, effectively an "on target" result in Striker.

    I must assume that technology like GPS and its relatives were unknown to the
    Striker desigers back in the 70s. I haven't touched an artillery piece in
    many years, but I must assume that GPS is fully integrated into the BCS
    system (or whatever it's called these days), so the stuff is pretty
    accurate.

    So I suppose that I agree with Kristian in that the battle computer is the
    way to put this problem in the Striker context.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 20:35:48 -0800
    From: Gordon Horne <gordon.horne@home.com>
    Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    >In mail you write:
    >
    >>>The Death Star is worse than B4 & B5. Last time I did the calcs (based
    >>>on measuring things off the screen of a 20" TV) I came out with
    >>>something like 20 km diameter, IIRC.
    >>>
    >>>So, assuming the decks average 10 meters apart, that's 2000 decks. With
    >>>the biggest ones being 300 sq. km!
    >
    >>  Your figures are a little off.  8^)
    >
    >Nope. If, as the text you quote states, the Death Star was 120 km in
    >diameter, then the folks doing the special effects goofed big time.
    >Because the models they built aren't scaled for that.
    >

    For a good discussion on the absolute infallibility of VFX people see
    http://www.uni-siegen.de/~ihe/bs/startrek/articles/bop-size.htm
    (Good for a chuckle even if you don't care how big the Death Star is.)

    >  > Death Star II was even larger, of course.

    Checking with the Return of the Jedi Sketchbook, Death Star II was
    ~160 km in diameter.

    >  One of the West End Games'
    >>  Star Wars RPG supplements had a schematic of one of the Death Stars
    >>  which showed that the decks were concentric shells around the coure
    >>  with down towards the center of the station.
    >
    >Which doesn't match the hangar bay layout. :-)
    >
    >There would have to be some "concentric shell" decks for the outer hull
    >defenses. But the hangar bays off the central trench obviously have
    >gravity perpendicular to the polar axis.
    >

    Hmm... i'm, not sure about the big trench itself. Aren't there some
    windows in trench sides which would suggest decks parallel to the
    floor of the trench. The hanger bays are definitely parallel to a
    radial line.

    >Swithching from one to the other is a nuisance.

    Actually it's very easy, especially given the amount of space
    available in the Death Star. Just use curved corridors with one end
    parallel to the hanger orientation and one end parallel to the shell
    orientation and a constantly varying "down" between. If the radius of
    the curved corridor is 10 m you couldn't walk closer than about 62 cm
    to someone ahead or behind you on the curve and it takes ~16 m to
    switch orientations. At a 50 m radius the discomfort distance is ~ 53
    cm and the distance to change orientations is ~ 79 m. If the longest
    crate you needed to move through the 10 m radius switch was 14 m -
    there is no effective limit on width - it could not be higher than 7
    m (allowing for some clearance). That's a bloody big crate. 8^)

    I'm not saying this is how they did it (assuming you accept the WEG
    schematics), just that it's not a significant problem.

    >And I suspect that
    >"flat" decks would be chosen for most of the ship, simply because they
    >are easier for people to orient themselves to (ie build a mental map of
    >where things are in relation to each other).
    >

    This would explain why we get lost on Earth so much 8^)

    ObTrav: What size space constructs appear in canon? For starships we
    start with the scout/courier and work through the Hercules freighter
    into the warships and finish with the Tigress. What are the
    dimensions of the Tigress? What size space stations and space
    colonies appear in canon? How big is the station/colony orbiting the
    gas giant in Beltstrike? Which is the largest space colony in colony
    and what are its dimensions? Why does a space game have so little
    space in it? (Almost everything happens on planets or on ships
    travelling between planets.)

    ------------------------------

    End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3353
    ***********************************

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    From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)
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    Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3354
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    Traveller-digest      Monday, December 4 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 3354

    (R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
    All rights reserved.

    The following topics are covered in this digest:

    Re: Deckplans for the big stuff
    Re: Deckplans for the big stuff
    Re: Masses in the Universe
    Re: Deckplans for the big stuff
    Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    Re: Masses in the Universe
    Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    RE: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    re: Striker Artillery
    RE: Striker Artillery
    How to build a ChemDet laser [LONG, GEARHEAD]
    RE: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    RE: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    RE: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    Re: Travel Zones
    Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    Re: Travel Zones
    Re: Travel Zones
    Technology Marches On:  Big Guns (was RE: Striker Artillery)
    Re: Travel Zones
    Sensor Technology
    Re: Travel Zones
    Re: Travel Zones
    Re: Travel Zones
    re: Deckplans for the big stuff

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 21:01:02 -0800
    From: Gordon Horne <gordon.horne@home.com>
    Subject: Re: Deckplans for the big stuff

    >  The Sulaco would be nice, but I could fake something up from the cut-away
    >and side shots in the Technical Manual as well as the model I paid too much
    >for...

    The most expensive model i've ever seen for size and detail.

              g

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 00:10:22 -0500
    From: "Jonathan 'Caraig' McDermott" <caraig@mindspring.com>
    Subject: Re: Deckplans for the big stuff

    - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    >Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 23:16:05 EST
    >From: GypsyComet@aol.com
    >Subject: Deckplans for the big stuff

    <snip deckplans wishlist, which I share. =) But....>

    For myself, but the Omega-class destroyer and the Olympus-class corvette
    are the ships from B5 that I'd like to see deckplans of. =)

    Cheers

    - - ---
    ==============================================================
    Jonathan McDermott, CNE/MCSE       NOSPAMcaraig@mindspring.com
    System Administrator         http:\\caraig.home.mindspring.com
    - - ------------------------------------------------------------
           Anubis@SpatialWastes -*- Caraig,Dermott@FurryMUCK
    IMTU tc+ tn t4 ge++ -3i+ c+(**) jt pi+ va+ dr+ pr+ zh+() so@
    - - ------------------------------------------------------------
       "Never trust a computer you can't throw out a window."
                                                  -Steve Wozniak
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    =i//5
    - -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 00:54:40 -0500
    From: cxt217@netzero.net (Cheng Tseng)
    Subject: Re: Masses in the Universe

    >On Sat, 2 Dec 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:
    >> In mail you write:
    >> > From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
    >> >>> P.S. If your looking to have fun with dwarfs, my favorite is the "Red"
    >> >>> variety. ;-)
    >> >>Fine. *You* get to share a cabin with Lister.
    >> > And exactly how is that better than bunking with Rimmer? ...
    >> Wait a sec, do I have them backwards? I meant the one who *isn't* a
    >> hologram. After all, you can get Holly to turn *him* off for a while if
    >> you work at it.
    >
    >I could opt to bunk with Kochanski.

    Which version?

    The original is...ah..dust by now...

    Rimmer replaced her holodisc with one of his own...

    And the other does not seem to take to Lister very well...

    C.T.

    "Retiring student loans, one miserable cent at a time."
    Cheng Tseng - Will econ forecast for food.

    Search the Net and Make Some Cash:
    http://www.catpile.com/index.shtml?refid=ctseng
    http://www.searchcactus.com/member/welcome.asp?7024

    _______________________________________________
    Why pay for something you could get for free?
    NetZero provides FREE Internet Access and Email
    http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 07:55:33 +0200 (EET)
    From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
    Subject: Re: Deckplans for the big stuff

    On Sun, 3 Dec 2000 GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:
    >  As far as Star Wars goes, I'd find the Star Destroyer more useful than the
    > Death Stars, and would love to see the Federation's Droid Control Ship and
    > both Diplomatic ships (the one blown up early, and the Chancelor's ship at
    > the end).

    Corellian Corvettes (Leia was on one at the beginning of A New Hope) are
    very customisable, so you could probably wing it. (Well, this is what I
    could deduce from my SW Sourcebook, for the RPG.)

    >  Most wanted from B5 would go to the White Star and Excalibur.

    White Star had an awful lot of seemingly useless empty space. At least the
    corridors were a bit too high for my taste, although I don't know what
    they were planning to transport.

    - --
    +++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
    <-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
    >-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
    <>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 07:58:23 +0200 (EET)
    From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
    Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    On Sun, 3 Dec 2000, Gordon Horne wrote:
    > ObTrav: What size space constructs appear in canon?

    Well, MT mentions ringworlds, Dyson spheres and rosettes, and you probably
    can't (or won't) get much bigger than that.

    Admittely these are not quite TL-15. B-)

    (There is also my theory of jumpspace being a construct of an ancient
    species, but that is just IMTU B-)

    - --
    +++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
    <-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
    >-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
    <>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 07:59:43 +0200 (EET)
    From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
    Subject: Re: Masses in the Universe

    On Mon, 4 Dec 2000, Cheng Tseng wrote:
    > >I could opt to bunk with Kochanski.
    > Which version?

    Any tangible will do, thanks.

    > The original is...ah..dust by now...
    > Rimmer replaced her holodisc with one of his own...

    Well, one could seek out the holoship...

    - --
    +++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
    <-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
    >-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
    <>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 22:06:27 -0800
    From: Gordon Horne <gordon.horne@home.com>
    Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    >On Sun, 3 Dec 2000, Gordon Horne wrote:
    >>  ObTrav: What size space constructs appear in canon?
    >
    >Well, MT mentions ringworlds, Dyson spheres and rosettes, and you probably
    >can't (or won't) get much bigger than that.
    >
    >Admittely these are not quite TL-15. B-)

    As far as i know there are also no examples - excepting the partial
    ringworld (Dyson sphere?) mentioned in one of the GT:Alien Races
    books.

               g

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 08:44:22 -0000
    From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
    Subject: RE: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    It's a partial Dyson sphere

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Gordon Horne [mailto:gordon.horne@home.com]
    > Sent: 04 December 2000 06:06
    > To: traveller@lists.ient.com
    > Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    >
    >
    > >On Sun, 3 Dec 2000, Gordon Horne wrote:
    > >>  ObTrav: What size space constructs appear in canon?
    > >
    > >Well, MT mentions ringworlds, Dyson spheres and rosettes,
    > and you probably
    > >can't (or won't) get much bigger than that.
    > >
    > >Admittely these are not quite TL-15. B-)
    >
    > As far as i know there are also no examples - excepting the partial
    > ringworld (Dyson sphere?) mentioned in one of the GT:Alien Races
    > books.
    >
    >            g
    >

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 00:49:32 -0800
    From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)
    Subject: re: Striker Artillery

    >From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com>
    >Subject: Striker Artillery
    ...
    >Since I want artillery to be used in the Striker game at DunDraCon in
    >February, I am trying to get a reasonable way to modify the artillery rules.
    >My first thought involves "registration points." Each forward observer gets
    >two [More? Less?] RPs which get plotted on a map before the game begins. So
    >you get to look at the terrain, guess where your opponent will be, and plan
    >your fire missions accordingly. Fire on a RP gets a net DM of +20, so a 2d7
    >roll of 7 gives you a 100 meter error from the RP.

      You could try +1d6 per initiative level (1/2/3) for registration of
    targets before the attack, with the ref specifying which batteries are
    DS and thus able to be pre-registered.

      Assuming regimental howitzers that gives you an average (3d6+2/4d6+6/
    5d6+10) initial deviation of ~500m/300m/100m for the three initiative
    levels. Of course, they'll likely be scheduled for counter-battery, too!

            Steven Hudson

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 01:35:38 -0800
    From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)
    Subject: RE: Striker Artillery

    >From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
    >Subject: RE: Striker Artillery
    ...
    >higher TLs you should have very precise information (things like GPS) about
    >the locations of the guns, observer, and target, so you should be much
    >closer to the target on your first round than Striker indicates. Even today,
    >if you know where everything is, you can expect to be very close to the
    >intended target, effectively an "on target" result in Striker.

      Alternately, at step I of the CPR design sequence you could calculate
    weapon _system_ accuracy as being the total of (TL-5) for _both_ the
    weapon proper and its fire control, rather than using only the lower
    of the two.

      That wouldn't of course help your TL 5 case (for which pre-plotting
    & registering is the way out), but it will reduce the discrepancies
    that we see wnthcurrent achievements. You could even count (TL-5) for
    fire direction centers as an input to system accuracy to yet further
    accelerate the climb to first-shot-on-target for dumb munitions.

            Steven Hudson

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 10:55:43 +0100
    From: "Patrik Holmström" <glappkaeft@hotmail.com>
    Subject: How to build a ChemDet laser [LONG, GEARHEAD]

    Some experience with Bruce Macintosh’s MCS and some gearhead tendencies are
    required. Read at your own risk.

    Building a chemical lasers cartridge missile warhead
    The chemical warhead in MCS is rated at 13:10 at TL13. There is no weight,
    cost or volume recorded for either the missile or the warhead. The PEN value
    however tells us that a single laser pulse from the warhead is rated
    somewhere between 68 Mj and 149 Mj.

    In MCS a single missile is resolved as a laser attack at point blank range
    with salvo strength used instead of RoF. The salvo strength of one missile
    is 1 so the laser is resolved like a laser at point blank range with 100
    pulses per turn. This suggests that the laser consists of more than one
    pulse (as do the TNE 1D6 hits rule).

    Trying to build a TL15 warhead
    I assume that the focal arrays can be included in chemical volume/mass. The
    stats for the chemical laser cartridge are taken from the laser design
    sequence (maybe not an good idea). The cartridge gives 2 Mj of laser energy
    per kilo at TL15 which is twice as much energy as at TL13 (1 Mj/kg). This
    means that a TL15 warhead of the same size should be rated at least 13:12.
    Since we don't know the size and mass of the warhead I assume that the
    warhead weights around 600kg (100kg more than the largest detnuke in
    FFS1&2).

    Warhead weight is 22 x 68 Mj = 598 kg and this is exactly enough to get the
    warhead rated at 13:15. This however assumes that the RoF is 50 pulses per
    turn.

    Attempt 1
    Say we got twenty-two RoF1 68 Mj lasers
    The table for decreasing damage of low RoF lasers only goes to Rof10 but one
    pulse per round should give us a Dam mod of –5 (or possibly -4).
    Result: 13:10

    Attempt 2
    As all the lasers go off at the same time so using the negative RoF
    modifiers is not a good model of damage performance.
    Damage mod = 0
    Result: 13:15

    Attempt 1 gives us too little damage. Attempt 2 gives us relativly high
    damage, maybe too much.

    Trying to build the TL13 13:10 warhead
    If we try to design all possible TL13 warheads we get:
    4x68 Mj = 272 kg rated at 13:10
    5x68 Mj = 340 kg rated at 13:11
    7x68 Mj = 476 kg rated at 13:12
    10x68 Mj = 680 kg rated at 13:13

    So which one of these warheads is the one in MCS? Anyone else done this
    before?

    I'm partial for the table
    TL    Mj/kg
    11     1.0
    12     1.5
    13     2.0
    14     2.5
    15     3.0

    and a Damage modifier of -2. The TL13 warhead would then weight 238 kg.

    Any ideas? Bruce? Anyone?

    Patrik Holmström
    http://www.docs.uu.se/~paho9211/trav/
    updated December 3, 2000
    _____________________________________________________________________________________
    Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 02:20:30 -0800
    From: Gordon Horne <gordon.horne@home.com>
    Subject: RE: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    Thanks. No deckplans i suppose 8^)

            g

    >It's a partial Dyson sphere
    >
    >  >
    >>  As far as i know there are also no examples - excepting the partial
    >>  ringworld (Dyson sphere?) mentioned in one of the GT:Alien Races
    >  > books.
    >>

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 10:34:49 -0000
    From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
    Subject: RE: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    <grin> Hmm, given the tendancy of the Inheritors to work in 3 dimensions,
    use anything handy as a floor and live in 0 Gs, deck plans would be
    complicated to say the least.

    Dean

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Gordon Horne [mailto:gordon.horne@home.com]
    > Sent: 04 December 2000 10:21
    > To: traveller@lists.ient.com
    > Subject: RE: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    >
    >
    > Thanks. No deckplans i suppose 8^)
    >
    >         g
    >
    > >It's a partial Dyson sphere
    > >
    > >  >
    > >>  As far as i know there are also no examples - excepting
    > the partial
    > >>  ringworld (Dyson sphere?) mentioned in one of the GT:Alien Races
    > >  > books.
    > >>
    >

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 03:15:43 -0800
    From: Gordon Horne <gordon.horne@home.com>
    Subject: RE: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    Weekend project: buy 1E1000000 soda straws...

    ><grin> Hmm, given the tendancy of the Inheritors to work in 3 dimensions,
    >use anything handy as a floor and live in 0 Gs, deck plans would be
    >complicated to say the least.
    >
    >Dean
    >
    >  >
    >>  Thanks. No deckplans i suppose 8^)
    >>
    >>          g
    >>
    >>  >It's a partial Dyson sphere
    >>  >
    >>  >  >
    >>  >>  As far as i know there are also no examples - excepting
    >>  the partial
    >>  >>  ringworld (Dyson sphere?) mentioned in one of the GT:Alien Races
    >>  >  > books.
    >>  >>
    >>

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 11:43:31 -0000
    From: "Peter Scarrott" <peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: Travel Zones

    - -------------Start original message------------------
    Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 18:32:42 PST
    From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
    Subject: Re: Travel Zones

    In mail you write:

    > 2)  Does anybody actually use the Black Travel from some old issue of
    > White Wolf magazine (I think).  It was a completely forbidden system
    > that was not even supposed to be placed on official starmaps due to
    > matters of Imperial Security.

    <sigh>

    Sorry, but that's not *possible* anywhere in "known space" except maybe
    Dark Nebula sector.

    With space based observatories, or even a decent telescope on a ship,
    you can see even dim stars for many parsecs. And observations from
    several hexes will pin down the location of any stars within jump range
    quite easily.

    So all that leaving a star off an official map will do is tell anybody
    with a telescope that you are trying to hide something. It'll actually
    *call attention* to the star.
    - ---------------------end original message--------------------
    Just to tie 2 threads together, if most stars are not plotted on the maps
    (many more stars observed than on the jump maps) and we handwave this away
    as only stars that you can jump to are shown (jumpspace does not reach these
    other stars for some reason). then all the Imperium needs to do is leave
    these stars off the map and list them in any astronomical texts as
    unreachable by Jump tech.  Most users will not try to reach these planets at
    all.

    On a related note if there are planets like this, surely one of the Scouts
    Services missions will be to investigate (by STL) these stars.  Anyone done
    any work on TL15 STL starships?

    Peter
    http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk (Trav & AD&D)
    peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

    IMTU: tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so  zh+
    vi-
          And life is harsh and rarely fair.

    Be wary of strong drink.  It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and
    miss.
    Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love (By Robert.Heinlan)

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 11:43:34 -0000
    From: "Peter Scarrott" <peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    Ok my order is going into Warehouse 51 as soon as I get paid, these look
    amazing.  My vote would be for deckplans for the Happy Funball, the Victrix
    sloop and (unlikely but I can wish) the RC Clipper.  Btw is there any plans
    to release a book of deckplans (normal scale) for more ships for GURPS or
    are we stuck with the original ones from CT, MT.  I would like to see some
    ships not already covered planned out.

    Peter
    http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk (Trav & AD&D)
    peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

    IMTU: tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so  zh+
    vi-
          And life is harsh and rarely fair.

    Be wary of strong drink.  It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and
    miss.
    Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love (By Robert.Heinlan)

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 13:21:03 +0000
    From: Rob Myers <robm@h2g2.com>
    Subject: Re: Travel Zones

    "Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
    >
    > At 04:26 PM 12/3/2000 -0600, you wrote:
    >
    > >2)  Does anybody actualy use the Black Travel from some old issue of White
    > >Wolf magazine (I think).  It was a completely forbidden system that was not
    > >even supposed to be placed on official starmaps due to matters of Imperial
    > >Security.
    >
    > How are you going to hide the star?

    The ancients could probably surround a system with a spherical
    blanketing dust cloud if they wanted to. For the effect this might have
    on a population, see "Life, The Universe and Everything.", or the Lexx
    episode "Lyekka" (IIRC). Why they would want to is another matter, and
    the Imperium certainly wouldn't be able to. The Zhodani might be able to
    psychically convince everyone that they can't see a star there, and even
    if they can it's of no interest and they won't remember it anyway so why
    bother looking?
    ObTrav: The PCs are pulled out of jump by a star that isn't on the maps,
    and that is the only thing they can currently see in space. Orbiting it
    are a number of planets, one of which is inhabited....

    > Or prevent people from jumping there if they observe it?

    Star Cruisers with spinal mounted meson guns? Failing that, a boarding
    party armed with FGMPs.

    OK, "Black Zones" are a very silly idea. In the UK, various military
    installations aren't shown on maps. This gives them celebrety status
    rather than an air of secrecy...

    - - Rob.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 13:45:34 GMT
    From: "John G. Wood" <elvwood@ntlworld.com>
    Subject: Re: Travel Zones

    Douglas E. Berry wrote:
    > At 04:26 PM 12/3/2000 -0600, you wrote:
    > >I have a couple of questions about travel zones.
    > >
    > >1)  Is there a system or formula or base percent chance for a system
    > >be a travel zone other than green.
    >
    > Usually, Starport X means a Red Zone.  MegaTraveller had a matrix for
    > cross referencing high government and law levels to get a zone, but it
    > was rather useless.

    It's mostly easier outside of Imperial space:

    * The IISS rates Vargr worlds up to 25pc beyond the border normally,
      then gives a blanket Amber rating to further worlds;

    * The Aslan Hierate rates all Law 11+ worlds Amber;

    * Hivers rate all TL6- non-Hiver worlds Amber;

    * The Zhodani class port X as Forbidden (Red) and ports C, D or E as
      Unabsorbed (Amber) on a 2D roll of 11+;

    John
    http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 09:09:47 -0600
    From: "Smart, David J (David)" <dasmart@avaya.com>
    Subject: Technology Marches On:  Big Guns (was RE: Striker Artillery)

    Speaking of artillery...

    The US Army is getting a new 155mm howitzer called
    the "Crusader". According to the article on the
    Beyond 2000 website, "..Crusader will ultimately be
    capable of lobbing up to eight of those 155mm rounds
    into the air and have them impact the same point
    simultaneously.."

    "..A standard battery of six Crusaders slaved together
    could therefore hurl 48 simultaneously-bursting shells
    onto a single point by way of just an opening salvo.
    They could then go on to put down 15 tons of ammunition
    in the following five minutes.."

    Ouch. Time to update Striker.

    The full story can be found at:

    http://www.beyond2000.com/news/Dec_00/story_907.html

    David

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 16:15:11 +0100
    From: Tage Borg <tage@hem.passagen.se>
    Subject: Re: Travel Zones

    Peter Scarrott wrote:

    > On a related note if there are planets like this, surely one of the Scouts
    > Services missions will be to investigate (by STL) these stars.  Anyone done
    > any work on TL15 STL starships?

    Now, that's an interesting project! I'll see if I can get some time to cobble
    together a FF&S1 (or is it FF&S2 I have?) TTL15 STL starship.

        /Tage

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 07:19:48 -0800 (PST)
    From: John Fox <jfox@verity.com>
    Subject: Sensor Technology

    Hello Everyone:
      I just rolled up a character that has two levels in Sensors skills.  I want to
    be able to talk with some knowledge on sensors (espically space based sensors).
      Does anyone have a primer on space sensors?
      Is there a website that I can read that will give me the basics for sensor
    tech?
      Is there a write up that is not too out of date that give stuff like
    resolution, scan time, power needs, problems sensors have, limitations etc?

      Thanks in advance

      John W. Fox
      "It is either a really big ship or we are about to run into a plaent, Sir!"

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 11:18:54 -0500
    From: Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>
    Subject: Re: Travel Zones

    shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
    >
    > So all that leaving a star off an official map will do is tell anybody
    > with a telescope that you are trying to hide something. It'll actually
    > *call attention* to the star.

    <sigh>

    Leonard, that's assuming all those Vilani-trained navigators think
    like you...

    Capt: Nav, jump to 34,32 - that star we see just off port.

    Nav:  Sorry Captain, we don't have jump tapes for that location.

    Ethan

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 08:05:29
    From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
    Subject: Re: Travel Zones

    At 04:55 PM 12/3/2000 -0700, you wrote:
    >From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>

    >
    >    Doug, was there a world like that except it was men weren't anything
    >better that property?  And, if so, how would one of your wife's typical
    >characters react?

    "OoOOoohhh..  I inquire about the local real estate market."

    - --

    Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
    http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 08:07:03
    From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
    Subject: Re: Travel Zones

    At 07:46 PM 12/3/2000 -0500, you wrote:
    >Thus, who is going to notice a system a jump or two away from
    >minimally inhabited or unihabited system?

    Pirates, belters, fugatives, smugglers, raiders, and everybody else who
    needs a noce place to take on some frontier fuel.
    - --

    Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
    http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 16:36:54 +0000
    From: Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
    Subject: re: Deckplans for the big stuff

    At 23:36 -0500 3/12/00, GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:
    >
    > Most wanted from B5 would go to the White Star and Excalibur.

    What about those big EarthForce Deep range Explorers? The ship almost
    the same size as B5...

    A Narn Heavy Cruiser or Dreadnought would be nice.

    Hamilton's Lady MacBeth or Syrinx, or one of Bank's GCUs or ROUs
    would also be cool.

    Dom

    ------------------------------

    End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3354
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    From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)
    To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com
    Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3355
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    Traveller-digest      Monday, December 4 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 3355

    (R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
    All rights reserved.

    The following topics are covered in this digest:

    Black Travel Zones
    Re: Technology Marches On:  Big Guns (was RE: Striker Artillery)
    Online graphics
    Re: Technology Marches On:  Big Guns (was RE: Striker Artillery)
    Re: Travel Zones
    Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    Re: Travel Zones
    Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    Re: Online graphics
    Random thoughts
    Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    Re: Random thoughts
    ERRATA for ChemDet laser design
    Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    Re: Striker Artillery
    Bigger Than Worlds: Alderson Disk (was Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans)
    Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 11:58:09 -0500
    From: "Walt Smith" <firelock_ny@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Black Travel Zones

    Douglas Berry wrote:
    >>2)  Does anybody actualy use the Black Travel from some old issue of White
    >>Wolf magazine (I think).  It was a completely forbidden system that was
    >>not even supposed to be placed on official starmaps due to matters of
    >>Imperial Security.
    >
    >How are you going to hide the star?  Or prevent people from jumping there
    >if they observe it?

    It sounds to me like the star isn't hidden, its just that everything
    about the star system - even including the UPP and System Profile -
    is considered an Imperial Secret.  The IISS cartographers won't put
    anything about it on their star charts, the IN won't mention it in
    their communiques, and anyone who goes there is lucky if they just
    disappear.

    There are most certainly better ways to hide things.

    Walt Smith

    _____________________________________________________________________________________
    Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 10:15:41 -0700
    From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
    Subject: Re: Technology Marches On:  Big Guns (was RE: Striker Artillery)

    Smart, David J (David) wrote:

    > Speaking of artillery...
    >
    > The US Army is getting a new 155mm howitzer called
    > the "Crusader". According to the article on the
    > Beyond 2000 website, "..Crusader will ultimately be
    > capable of lobbing up to eight of those 155mm rounds
    > into the air and have them impact the same point
    > simultaneously..

    OUCH!

    >
    > "..A standard battery of six Crusaders slaved together
    > could therefore hurl 48 simultaneously-bursting shells
    > onto a single point by way of just an opening salvo.

    Better HOPE that point is the right one....friendly fire could get
    REALLY nasty in this sort of scenario.
    - --
    Bruce Johnson
    University of Arizona
    College of Pharmacy
    Information Technology Group

    Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 11:34:59 -0600 (CST)
    From: Nathan Yourchuck <yore@visi.com>
    Subject: Online graphics

    Hi,

    Does anyone know where I could find some good graphics of futuristic or
    modern type buildings? Things like satellite dishes, radio towers,
    factories, etc... I want to use them in some player handout style webpages
    for my campaign. I am looking for photorealistic type stuff - preferrably
    free for personal use.

    Also, does anyone have hexgrids in a gif or jpg file? I also want to make
    some electronic maps of my space campaign.

    Thanks,
    Nathan
    yore@visi.com

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon,  4 Dec 2000 11:54:54 -0600
    From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@mail.elc.net>
    Subject: Re: Technology Marches On:  Big Guns (was RE: Striker Artillery)

    From: "Smart, David J (David)" <dasmart@avaya.com>

    >Speaking of artillery...
    >
    >The US Army is getting a new 155mm howitzer called
    >the "Crusader". According to the article on the
    >Beyond 2000 website, "..Crusader will ultimately be
    >capable of lobbing up to eight of those 155mm rounds
    >into the air and have them impact the same point
    >simultaneously.."

    IIRC, this is done by varying the angle of fire and powder charge used. The (later) M109's can do this with three shells, I think.

    A generous and sadistic GM,
    Brandon Cope

    http://www.geocities.com/copeab
    *** New: generic adventure seeds and Traveller page ***

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 21:16:44 +0200 (EET)
    From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
    Subject: Re: Travel Zones

    On Mon, 4 Dec 2000, Rob Myers wrote:
    > > How are you going to hide the star?
    > The ancients could probably surround a system with a spherical
    > blanketing dust cloud if they wanted to.

    Perhaps, but how could they prevent the star warming the dust?

    Maybe a Dyson sphere with inner mirror coating. B-)
    (No, it wouldnt work. There is always some fraction of absorbed
    radiation, and it would add up and warm the spere.)

    - --
    +++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
    <-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
    >-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
    <>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 14:34:38 -0500
    From: "Dan Lane" <danielrlane@home.com>
    Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    Dorling Kindersley did a book with cross-sectionals of the Death Star, Star
    Destroyers, etc... It is one of the best products of its sort done to date
    (or so I believe).  Not true deck plans, but deck plans would be an easy
    step from tse diagrams (full color plates actually).  The are 2-3 books in
    the series.

    - -Dan Lane
    - ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Leonard Erickson" <shadow@krypton.rain.com>
    To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>
    Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 8:54 PM
    Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    > In mail you write:
    >
    > >>The Death Star is worse than B4 & B5. Last time I did the calcs (based
    > >>on measuring things off the screen of a 20" TV) I came out with
    > >>something like 20 km diameter, IIRC.
    > >>
    > >>So, assuming the decks average 10 meters apart, that's 2000 decks. With
    > >>the biggest ones being 300 sq. km!
    >
    > > Your figures are a little off.  8^)
    >
    > Nope. If, as the text you quote states, the Death Star was 120 km in
    > diameter, then the folks doing the special effects goofed big time.
    > Because the models they built aren't scaled for that.
    >
    > Check it yourself. Freeze frame the DS, and measure the following:
    >
    > 1. Ratio of diameter of the DS to the width of the central trench.
    > 2. Ratio of the width of the central trench to the height of the hangar
    >    entrance.
    > 3. ratio of the height of the hangar entrance to the thickness of the
    >    Millenium Falcon.
    >
    > Then stick the thickness of the MF into the above and see what figures
    > *you* get. It won't even be *close* to 120 km!
    >
    > > Death Star II was even larger, of course. One of the West End Games'
    > > Star Wars RPG supplements had a schematic of one of the Death Stars
    > > which showed that the decks were concentric shells around the coure
    > > with down towards the center of the station.
    >
    > Which doesn't match the hangar bay layout. :-)
    >
    > There would have to be some "concentric shell" decks for the outer hull
    > defenses. But the hangar bays off the central trench obviously have
    > gravity perpendicular to the polar axis.
    >
    > Swithching from one to the other is a nuisance. And I suspect that
    > "flat" decks would be chosen for most of the ship, simply because they
    > are easier for people to orient themselves to (ie build a mental map of
    > where things are in relation to each other).
    >
    > --
    > Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
    >  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
    > leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
    >
    >

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 11:34:29 -0800 (PST)
    From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
    Subject: Re: Travel Zones

    Mikko V. I. Parviainen writes:
    > On Mon, 4 Dec 2000, Rob Myers wrote:
    > > > How are you going to hide the star?
    > > The ancients could probably surround a system with a spherical
    > > blanketing dust cloud if they wanted to.
    >
    > Perhaps, but how could they prevent the star warming the dust?
    >
    > Maybe a Dyson sphere with inner mirror coating. B-)
    > (No, it wouldnt work. There is always some fraction of absorbed
    > radiation, and it would add up and warm the spere.)

    Not to mention that if it didn't, it would cause all of the star's heat to
    be reflected back to the star, with probably dire effects on the long term
    stability of the star, and certainly would result in extremely high
    temperatures within the sphere.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 14:40:18 -0500
    From: "Dan Lane" <danielrlane@home.com>
    Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    Hi Jesse.  Talk to my brother aboutmArmored Cruiser deckplans - we used such
    a ship (INS MANU CA-7557)  in our NarCor campaign. Tom has an interesting
    design for the bridge and hand drawings that he could scan for you to
    incorporate into your ...:)

    - -Dan Lane
    - ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Jesse DeGraff" <jdegraff@pacbell.net>
    To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>
    Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 9:52 PM
    Subject: RE: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    > Now that you mention it.....
    >
    > :)
    > Jesse
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > -----Original Message-----
    > > From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
    > > [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
    > > Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 2:09 AM
    > > To: traveller@lists.ient.com
    > > Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans
    > >
    > >
    > > In mail you write:
    > >
    > > > From: Jones, Dean <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
    > > >
    > > >>How about deckplans for an AHL? :>
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >     Yes please, as well as the Armored Cruiser from Fighting Ships.
    > >
    > > You guys want plans to Babylon 4 & 5 while you are at it?
    > >
    > > --
    > > Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
    > >  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
    > > leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
    > >

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 11:44:11 -0800
    From: Gordon Horne <gordon.horne@home.com>
    Subject: Re: Online graphics

    >Also, does anyone have hexgrids in a gif or jpg file? I also want to make
    >some electronic maps of my space campaign.
    >

    You might find the hex grids at
    http://members.home.net/ghorne/scifi.html useful.

    In the menu on the left, click on "Shipyard" then on "Grids" in the
    resulting menu.

    (For some reason the @home servers are very slow today.)

    TTFN
            g
    - --
    =============================================
    "Any referee or gamemaster in a space based RPG that
    cannot wipe out an entire party of player characters
    without resorting to 'bad guys with guns' just isn't trying."
    =============================================

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 12:05:02 -0800
    From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com>
    Subject: Random thoughts

    Well, I just got back from my semi-annual insanity knows as the December
    Battle of the Great War Historical Society, and had a few random thoughts
    that might be of interest to gamers:
    	1)  You would be amazed what you can hear, expecially at night.
    While in a forward listening post, I could clearly hear two people walking
    across no-man's land.  Even though I could not hear the their words, I could
    hear by the tone of their voices that they were relaxed and were probably
    our own 'dead' returning from their fun by the allied lines.  I then heard a
    distinctively-pitched tone of something brushing against a German helmet.
    Later on, I could tell when the allies had started to cut our wire.  I read
    once in a military manual about the 'proper way' to cut wire:  fold a bit of
    cloth over the wire, cut most, but not all of the way though with cutters,
    then carefully twist the wire by hand to break it - I always thought that
    seemed a bit excessive until I heard the noise that wirecutters make at
    night.  I even think that they were the sort that had little stops on the
    handle because of the wooden *thuck* sound that was combined with the
    higher-pitched click of the wire.
    	2)  You would be amazed at the amount of noise people can make, even
    when standing still.  When there were two other people on the trench with
    me, the random noises they made were enough to drown out the other tiny
    noises I was listening for - It takes a lot of discipline to get everyone to
    be quiet.  The standard D&D image of the party in a dungeon, half a dozen
    testosterone-crazed doofuses dressed in clanking metal, _trying_ to be quiet
    while the "thief" listens at the door is more that a little silly.
    	3)  While a scarf over the head and ears keeps you pretty warm, even
    a thin layer of cloth muffles sounds way too much.
    	4)  If you are charging through an enemy position, remember to make
    sure that there is no one behind you - I was in a "sniper post" in the front
    line when we were overrun.  The allies went charging right past me, even
    though only the top part of the phonebooth-sized doorway was covered with a
    couple of empty burlap sacks.  I fumbled around for a moment, found my last
    grenade, and seeing that all the other Germans were already dead, tossed the
    grenade into the middle of the bay before ducking back under cover.
    	5)  Twisted ankles suck. (I see a doctor in a couple of hours at my
    wife's insistance)  All it takes is a rock in the wrong place and bye-bye
    mobility.  No real damage in terms of "hit points" or anything, you just
    can't put any weight on the damn thing.  Leg is useless.

    	Rod Basler, COFIT and limping like the COF I'm training to be
    - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    - ----
    Disclaimer - It's not their fault, OK?

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 15:25:32 -0500 (EST)
    From: "William 'Commander X' Prankard" <cmdrx@ao.net>
    Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    >Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 16:55:17 -0800
    >From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
    >Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    >On Sat, 2 Dec 2000 16:51:44 -0700, "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
    >wrote:

    >>From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
    >>
    >> >>You guys want plans to Babylon 4 & 5 while you are at it?
    >> >
    >> >I did a complete set of plans for Babylon 4.  But 24 hours after I
    finished
    >> >them, they mysteriously vanished.

    Giggle...

    >>
    >>     They will show up again, in a few years, Doug, but then they will
    go
    >>back in time to fight a major war.

    Chortle..

    >Along with the Penguin Not Born of Penguin.

    SCHPEEEEEEEEEWWWWW!!!!!!

    Another keyboard kill.  Congrats.

    \\    //  Commander X
     \\  //   CEO X-TEK Industries of Deneb, LIC
      T E K   Starship Contractor & High Energy Weapons Research
     //  \\   http://www.ao.net/~cmdrx/xtek
    //    \\  0608 D557777-A kk- va+ so+ zh+ da+ A723

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 20:35:31 +0000
    From: Paul Campbell <kemitix@users.sourceforge.net>
    Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    On Sun, Dec 03, 2000 at 10:06:27PM -0800, Gordon Horne wrote:
    > >On Sun, 3 Dec 2000, Gordon Horne wrote:
    > >>  ObTrav: What size space constructs appear in canon?
    > >
    > >Well, MT mentions ringworlds, Dyson spheres and rosettes, and you probably
    > >can't (or won't) get much bigger than that.
    > >
    > >Admittely these are not quite TL-15. B-)
    >
    > As far as i know there are also no examples - excepting the partial
    > ringworld (Dyson sphere?) mentioned in one of the GT:Alien Races
    > books.
    >

    I believe there is a Ringworld at Leenitakot, in the Hinterworlds.

    It is a stop over for my players before they head of to follow rumours
    of the afore mentioned Dyson sphere.

    - --
    Paul Campbell (Sourceforge) <kemitix@users.sourceforge.net>
    GPG Key fingerprint = 9C4F 31A3 8814 9F94 A533 A979 E63F 0C69 A771 0F24
    http://www.kemitix.uklinux.net
    jupiter: 8:30pm up 19 days, 10:30, 2 users, load average: 0.23, 0.10, 0.02

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 17:24:27 -0500
    From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net>
    Subject: Re: Random thoughts

    Was written:

    > 1)  You would be amazed what you can hear, expecially at night.

    Your E-Mail reminder me of an incident in the desert near El Paso in 1976 or
    1977.  I, a 2Lt.,  was on location at night in the base camp and lit a one
    burner gas stove.    Got a flame about a foot high very briefly until the
    stove was adjusted. One of the Sergeants who had troopies out on patrol
    asked who had lit what to cause the light.  It seemed that the patrol
    several miles out had seen quite vividly the brief flare of light.  He
    thanked me and said that he had told his troopies that we had done it to
    demonstrate the need for light discipline.  I wished later  that we had lit
    several items of varying light intensity in sequence just to demonstrate how
    visible they were.

    Dan

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 23:57:52 +0100
    From: "Patrik Holmström" <glappkaeft@hotmail.com>
    Subject: ERRATA for ChemDet laser design

    The weight of the heaviest TL15 detnuke laser is 250kg, not 500kg as I said.

    Sorry.

    Patrik
    _____________________________________________________________________________________
    Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 14:10:54 PST
    From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
    Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    In mail you write:

    >>And I suspect that
    >>"flat" decks would be chosen for most of the ship, simply because they
    >>are easier for people to orient themselves to (ie build a mental map of
    >>where things are in relation to each other).
    >>
    >
    > This would explain why we get lost on Earth so much 8^)

    Nah, here we have only one "level" of sphere to worry about. And it can
    be treated as "flat" 99% of the time.

    > ObTrav: What size space constructs appear in canon? For starships we
    > start with the scout/courier and work through the Hercules freighter
    > into the warships and finish with the Tigress. What are the
    > dimensions of the Tigress? What size space stations and space
    > colonies appear in canon? How big is the station/colony orbiting the
    > gas giant in Beltstrike? Which is the largest space colony in colony
    > and what are its dimensions? Why does a space game have so little
    > space in it? (Almost everything happens on planets or on ships
    > travelling between planets.)

    Not Traveller, but some interesting "big" ships from SF:

    E.E. (Doc) Smith: Skylark of Valeron in the books "skylark of Valeron"
    	and "Skylark DuQuesne". It's never stated how big the ship is,
    	but it contains a sixth order projector with 1000 km "aiming"
    	circles (I forget whether that's diameter or radius). And
    	apparently that is a fraction of the ship's size, as in the
    	second book mentioned above (the 4th in the series) the ship
    	gets whittled done to a "fraction" of it's normal size and the
    	projector and other critical systems aren't affected.

    Fritz Lieber: "The Wanderer". This has *ships* the size of *Earth*.
    	Complete with PAWs that run the full circumference (or full
    	diameter) of the ship. You figure out what a "spinal mount"
    	14,000 km long will do. Or a circular PAW 38,000 km long...

    H. Beam Piper: various of his stories have ships a from 1000 feet up to
    	a mile in diameter.

    I know that both Ian Banks and Larry Niven have *structures* that are
    bigger. But not ships.

    Likewise, in the Lensman series, Doc Smith had mobile planets. But they
    didn't *build* the planets. The ships in Lieber's book were *built*.

    - --
    Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
     shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
    leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 18:17:00 EST
    From: Michael A Hoxie <ludowick@juno.com>
    Subject: Re: Striker Artillery

    Luther Martin wrote:

     >If you attempt to use artillery in Striker, you quickly notice that
     >it's not
     >very effective. Why? Well, for starters, you need to roll 31+ [That's
     >not a
     >typo!] on 2d6 to get the "on target" result. Since you can't get this
     >without a big DM, you need to acculumulate those +1 or +2 DMs for every
     >turn
     >of correction for quite a while, usually well past the end of a Striker
     >game.

    I think some of the problem may stem from the short turn length of
    Striker
    (most other miniature rules I played had a turn length of 3 or more times

    that of Striker's 30 sec.).  Still, the system needs tweaking.  Here are
    some of my ideas:

    1.  Subsequent rolls for deviation after the first (as long as the FO
    can view the target & communicate to the firers) cannot be lower than
    the initial roll for MPI scatter.  If the firer rolled a "7" for scatter
    on the first turn and rolled a "2" on the first turn of correction, the
    second roll would be regarded as "7" (or optionally the correcting roll
    could be made +1 or +2 higher than the previous roll).

    2.  Use the standard rule only for initial deviation (or attempts at
    correction when the target isn't visible to the FO).  Subsequent corr-
    ection is done by shifting the MPI in the direction desired by the FO
    for, say, 15cm for an average initiative FO, or 25cm for an high ini-
    tiative FO (actual figures left to individual ref).  Note that this
    shift only occurs after correction, and would be in addition to the shift
    produced by laser-homing projectiles (which occurs immediately in the
    turn of impact).

    3.  The DMs used for FOs could be increased (say +4 cumulative per turn
    for elite FOs, +3 for veterans, +2 for regulars, +1 for any average ini-
    tiative recruits -- if you're using the experience rule from the campaign
    rules section).  These DMs were based on the the direct fire hit DMs.

    4.  A DM based on TL of firing weapons/fire direction center, maybe with
    DM being equal to TL.

     >Since I want artillery to be used in the Striker game at DunDraCon in
     >February, I am trying to get a reasonable way to modify the artillery
     >rules.
     >My first thought involves "registration points." Each forward observer
     >gets
     >two [More? Less?] RPs which get plotted on a map before the game
     >begins. So
     >you get to look at the terrain, guess where your opponent will be, and
     >plan
     >your fire missions accordingly. Fire on a RP gets a net DM of +20, so a
     >2d7
     >roll of 7 gives you a 100 meter error from the RP.

    Sounds good (& realistic, IMHO).  I've seen similar rules in other games.
    You should make the players determine RPs before set up, with only a
    general
    idea of where the other player(s) will deploy.  I'd cut the DM down a
    bit,
    though, (say +14?).

     >Since this will be a low-TL [TL 5] game, the fire direction center
     >can't
     >just push buttons on their computer to make the required fire commands
     >appear. To model this, I am thinking of an additional one turn delay
     >for
     >fire missions which are along the lines of "From RP 1, shift 200 meters
     >North," but with basically the same net DM. Maybe a net DM of +19 or
     >+18 for
     >shifts from RPs.

    Also sounds good.  If you don't mind the extra work, you could work out a
    sort of circular "template", with bands of x centimeters wide (centered
    on
    the RP) and have decreasing positive DMs in each band.  Or just knock off
    1
    or 2 from the DM for each, say, 10 cm from the terrain feature.

    I think the direct fire by indirect fire weapons rule needs to be
    changed.
    It's currently possible to shoot at a target in front of the weapon and
    have the MPI deviate to behind the firer's position.  There should be a
    minimum range to this sort of thing (and a better DM than +2).  How about
    15 cm minimum with a +20 DM?

    Also, how about halving the set-up time for indirect fire weapons if they
    have a map box (less surveying work to do)?

    <same old> Ludowick

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    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 14:53:52 PST
    From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
    Subject: Bigger Than Worlds: Alderson Disk (was Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans)

    In mail you write:

    > On Sun, 3 Dec 2000, Gordon Horne wrote:
    >> ObTrav: What size space constructs appear in canon?
    >
    > Well, MT mentions ringworlds, Dyson spheres and rosettes, and you probably
    > can't (or won't) get much bigger than that.

    Check out Niven's article "Bigger than Worlds". It's appeared in a
    couple of his collections, as well as in Analog.

    You can get *much* bigger than that. Alderson Disks, Galactic Dyson
    Spheres, Topopolises, etc.

    If you thought Ringworld required unobtanium, just consider what an
    Alderson Disk requires. Picture a CD thousands of km thick, and so big
    that it has a *star* in the hole. Yeah, it extends from (say) the orbit
    of Mercury out past the orbit of Jupiter...

    The thickness is such that it has gravity perpendicular to the surface.
    The unobtanium is needed to keep the disk from collapsing into a
    sphere.

    The light is always at a shallow angle, unless you make the star "bob"
    up and down through the hole.

    Note that the gravity, being generated by a flat disk, does *not* obey
    the inverse square law until you are at such a distance that the disk
    subtends a small angle. So you experience (say) 1g from the surface all
    the way out to several AU away from the surface. Near the edges, things
    get a bit weird.

    And yes, this would be visible as *something* weird for many, *many*
    parsecs unless it was "edge on" to the observers.

    Obviously, there's a *wide* range of climates and environments on this
    thing. So anybody building it would likely share the effort and living
    space with several species, each wanting a different sort of
    temperature range.

    Also note that the living space (on both sides!) makes a ringworld look
    tiny. Let's assume it goes from .4 AU to 4 AU. that's 60 million km to
    600 million km. Which gives an area of 1 *quadrillion* km^2 *per side*!

    Earth has a surface area of about 500 million km^2. So our disk has a
    surface area of over 4 *billion* times that of Earth. And even if only
    a fraction is usable by humans, it's still insanely huger than a
    ringworld.

    Oh yeah, you need a wall around a thousand km tall at the inner edge of
    the hole to keep air from drifting away. At the outer edge, there's no
    problem.

    For nasty mined GMs, you could run a D&D (or other FRP) game on an
    Alderson disk, and then let the players discover the place in a
    Traveller game. The odds of them running into their characters from the
    other game are low, unless the GM feels nasty.

    Note that the inner rim is a good place for "fire giants", red Dragons
    and other heat loving critters (lakes of molten lead, anyone?). And the
    outer rim is great for "frost giants" and their friends (lakes of
    liquid ammonia?). It gets even better if you extend it out to 10 AU or
    even 30 AU... And in the FRP, you don't need to explain why the sun is
    always on the horizon and the stars don't move in the sky.

    Oh yeah, the "100 diameter limit" for a disk (whether you figure it
    based on mass or size) is going to be *way* out there.

    Given that if the disk *is* edge on, the most "reasonable"
    interpretation of the info you'd get from telescopic observations is
    that this is the biggest, thickest asteroid belt (or series of belts)
    ever found. Which would attract PCs to it. :-)

    Picture the PCs when they pop out of jump in the equivalent of the Oort
    cloud (say 200 AU out). And even from there, they can *see* the disk
    spread out before them (naturally, the friendly GM had them pop out
    "above" or "below" the disk).

    "What is that? Some sort of space station?"

    "Uhhh, sir? I think you'd better check these readings yourself..."

    "What! It *can't* be that far away!! That'd mean it was... oh..."

    <eg>

    Talk about your "ancient artifacts". :-)

    BTW, trying to find any remnants of the tech that built a disk would be
    rather time consuming. Figure that you can do a preliminary survey of
    an Earth-sized area in *only* a week, you'll be done with the prelim
    survey in only 77 million years... :-)

    - --
    Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
     shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
    leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 15:30:26 PST
    From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
    Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans

    In mail you write:

    > Hi Jesse.  Talk to my brother aboutmArmored Cruiser deckplans - we used such
    > a ship (INS MANU CA-7557)  in our NarCor campaign. Tom has an interesting
    > design for the bridge and hand drawings that he could scan for you to
    > incorporate into your ...:)

    Somewhere, I have a set of blueprints to a USN destroyer (or mabye
    cruiser?). These *alone* are huge (they fold up to about the size of
    the old hardcover Traveller Book)

    - --
    Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
     shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
    leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

    ------------------------------

    End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3355
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    From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)
    To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com
    Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3356
    Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com
    Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com
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    Precedence: bulk

    Traveller-digest      Monday, December 4 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 3356

    (R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
    All rights reserved.

    The following topics are covered in this digest:

    Re: Travel Zones
    Re: Travel Zones
    Re: Travel Zones
    Downport.com question
    Re: Beard/glasses
    Re: B5 deck-plans
    RE: B5 deck-plans
    Re: Travel Zones
    Re: Bigger Than Worlds: Alderson Disk (was Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans)
    Re: Travel Zones
    Re: Travel Zones
    Re: Travel Zones
    Re: Travel Zones
    Re: Striker Artillery
    Re: Black Travel Zones
    Re: Online graphics
    Re: Random thoughts
    Re: Travel Zones
    Re: Random thoughts
    Shared Kill (was Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans)
    Re: Downport.com question
    Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
    Re: Travel Zones
    Re: B5 deck-plans

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 15:38:26 PST
    From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
    Subject: Re: Travel Zones

    In mail you write:

    > From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com>
    >
    >>Sorry, but that's not *possible* anywhere in "known space" except maybe
    >>Dark Nebula sector.
    >
    >     Or maybe a Reft area?

    Nope. Being "empty",  The stars that are there are farther apart, and
    easier to spot.

    - --
    Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
     shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
    leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 15:40:16 PST
    From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
    Subject: Re: Travel Zones

    In mail you write:

    > From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com>
    >
    >>In "fringe" regions, you'll have optimistic fre traders making their
    >>*own* maps, hoping to find a star that isn't charted, because that's an
    >>opportunity to get there and see if there's anything valuable before
    >>the Imperium (or whoever) can negotiate a treaty that might limit the
    >>trader's options.
    >
    >     And, then also a monopoly in the Free Trader's favor is always a good
    > thing.

    That goes without saying. :-)

    >>And sorry, but the astrogators *do* look out the window. How do you
    >>think they get the ship aimed in the right direction and positioned? By
    >>taking sightings on stars.
    >
    >     And, in the grand old days before satelights, navigators did the same
    > thing.
    >     My father was a Bombadier/Navigator/Gunner in WWII & he used to take
    > star sightings to make sure they were on the right course to bomb Japanese
    > Cities before the raid & after the raid to make sure they were on the right
    > way home.
    >     I also seem to recall that the explorers did it in the Grand Age of
    > Sail, so it is a time tested way of doing things.  If you know where Star A,
    > Star B, & Star C are then you must be at Star D.

    It's a *bit* more complicated when you are moving between stars, as
    many of the "bright" stars in one system are only bright because they
    are *close*. Likewise, "constellations" will move around.

    Luckily, for known systems, you know what the stars look like, so you
    can look for a know "pattern" of bright stars, then take a few spectra
    to confirm that they are the stars you think they are.

    >>And in fringe areas that are likely to have lousy (or no) beacons and
    >>navigational aids, you'll be making lots of star shots simply to
    >>confirm that you are in the right system, and to figure out which way
    >>to the planet.
    >>
    >>In essence, leaving a star off the charts is like leaving a mountain
    >>off a county map. People are going to notice.
    >
    >     I know I would.
    >     < LL walks along & sees a large mountain that was not there yesterday &
    > he notices it. >
    >
    >>To "hide in plain sight" you need to have the star on the chart and
    >>listed as having no planets and no minor bodies worth trying to refuel
    >>from inside of the cometary belt.
    >
    >     Of course you can detect a Gas Giant from 1 or 2 Parsecs away, IIRC, so
    > it would have to be in the middle of a Rift before anyone would ignore it.

    Unless it doesn't *have* any GGs.

    >>That way, anybody trying to use the system as a shortcut, or emergency
    >>refueling point is likely to aim for whatever body in the outer (say
    >>200+ AUs from the star) system you have listed. Which will keep them
    >>from trying to find a comet or whatever on their own (which would
    >>almost certainly result in their spotting the planets).
    >
    >     And, if they are spouting radio traffic, then it will be found, no
    > matter what you do.

    It'll take longer, since nobody but radio astronomers is going to
    notice radio traffic from a system several parsecs off. Radar pulses
    are more likely to be noticed. Also, keep in mind that until you reach
    VHF/UHF bands, most signals bounce off the ionosphere rather than going
    out.

    - --
    Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
     shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
    leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 15:56:04 PST
    From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
    Subject: Re: Travel Zones

    In mail you write:

    > shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
    >>
    >> So all that leaving a star off an official map will do is tell anybody
    >> with a telescope that you are trying to hide something. It'll actually
    >> *call attention* to the star.
    >
    > <sigh>
    >
    > Leonard, that's assuming all those Vilani-trained navigators think
    > like you...
    >
    > Capt: Nav, jump to 34,32 - that star we see just off port.
    >
    > Nav:  Sorry Captain, we don't have jump tapes for that location.

    Look up "jump tapes". You'll find that they won't be used by anybody
    with a real astrogator on board. They exist to let folks without a
    decent astrogator get around.

    - --
    Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
     shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
    leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 18:01:45 -0600
    From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" <sdaniels@playnet.com>
    Subject: Downport.com question

    I'm curious about the Downport site.
    I thought that Swordworlder ran it, but I see that
    Ronnie Brown is listed as the owner/benefactor.
    Is that SwordWorlder?  Is my memory just poor?

    curiously, bloo

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 13:03:03 +1300
    From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
    Subject: Re: Beard/glasses

    On 1 Dec 2000, at 16:51, Samuel D. Weiss wrote:

    > Beard - check.
    Nope

    > Overweight - check.
    Yep.

    > Bald - nope, hair is currently working its way over the gut in fact.
    Nope. Currently about 2' long, and soon to be shortened - a number four I
    think.

    > Glasses - nope, despite reading manuals to all hours of the night I still
    > have excellent vision.
    No glasses, either.

    - --
    "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

    A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 19:20:05 EST
    From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
    Subject: Re: B5 deck-plans

    For those of you salivating about deck plans for B5, I hope you realize that
    it is useless to expect me to do something about it -- SJ Games has a license
    for Traveller, but not for B5 (sorry).

    LKW

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 16:29:46 -0800
    From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
    Subject: RE: B5 deck-plans

    We know, we're just dreamin' :D
    Jesse

    "They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
    deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    - -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
    > [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of GDWGAMES@aol.com
    > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 4:20 PM
    > To: traveller@lists.ient.com
    > Subject: Re: B5 deck-plans
    >
    >
    > For those of you salivating about deck plans for B5, I hope you
    > realize that
    > it is useless to expect me to do something about it -- SJ Games
    > has a license
    > for Traveller, but not for B5 (sorry).
    >
    > LKW

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 18:35:03 -0600
    From: "Shimmergloom" <dragon@mhtc.net>
    Subject: Re: Travel Zones

    I ran a world where men had been all but eliminated by the military and the
    government.  You had to have a 11+ Social Standing to even know they existed
    any more.  And the majority of the population officialy believed that men
    never existed.

    Asking questions like:    But how did we propagate as a species before we
    developed the technology to empregnate each other?  Would result in a nice
    vacation and if you came back you would realize just how unimportant the
    question was.

        the party was sent there to rescue a Barron's young son.
    - ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
    To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>
    Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 8:05 AM
    Subject: Re: Travel Zones

    > At 04:55 PM 12/3/2000 -0700, you wrote:
    > >From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
    >
    > >
    > >    Doug, was there a world like that except it was men weren't anything
    > >better that property?  And, if so, how would one of your wife's typical
    > >characters react?
    >
    > "OoOOoohhh..  I inquire about the local real estate market."
    >
    >
    > --
    >
    > Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
    > http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
    >

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 19:45:12 -0500
    From: knightsky@juno.com
    Subject: Re: Bigger Than Worlds: Alderson Disk (was Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans)

    > For nasty mined GMs, you could run a D&D (or other FRP) game on an
    > Alderson disk, and then let the players discover the place in a
    > Traveller game. The odds of them running into their characters from
    > the
    > other game are low, unless the GM feels nasty.
                                          ******************************

    Which is to say that it would be virtually guaranteed...

    Perry
    "In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."

    ________________________________________________________________
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    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 18:01:06 -0700
    From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
    Subject: Re: Travel Zones

    From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>

    >>Thus, who is going to notice a system a jump or two away from
    >>minimally inhabited or unihabited system?
    >
    >Pirates, belters, fugatives, smugglers, raiders, and everybody else who
    >needs a noce place to take on some frontier fuel.

        And, what about Penguin Boy?  He has to have his Fortress of Herring
    somewhere, does he not?
        Actually, an unihabited system can be used for quite alot of things.  A
    safe haven, a refueling point, a supply cashe, a secret starport.  Just to
    name a few.

        I bid you peace.

    Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
    ICQ # 8973001
    legate@futureone.com

    "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
    places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
    passes. Entil'zha Veni!"

    "I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
    USS Excaliber.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 18:02:43 -0700
    From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
    Subject: Re: Travel Zones

    From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>

    >>    Doug, was there a world like that except it was men weren't anything
    >>better that property?  And, if so, how would one of your wife's typical
    >>characters react?
    >
    >"OoOOoohhh..  I inquire about the local real estate market."

        So, in other words, they would react badly to women being kept as
    property, but they would not if men were?

        I bid you peace.

    Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
    ICQ # 8973001
    legate@futureone.com

    "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
    places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
    passes. Entil'zha Veni!"

    "I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
    USS Excaliber.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 16:02:05 PST
    From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
    Subject: Re: Travel Zones

    In mail you write:

    > On Mon, 4 Dec 2000, Rob Myers wrote:
    >> > How are you going to hide the star?
    >> The ancients could probably surround a system with a spherical
    >> blanketing dust cloud if they wanted to.
    >
    > Perhaps, but how could they prevent the star warming the dust?
    >
    > Maybe a Dyson sphere with inner mirror coating. B-)
    > (No, it wouldnt work. There is always some fraction of absorbed
    > radiation, and it would add up and warm the spere.)

    More to the point, the reflected radiation would increase the temp of
    the star (and of anything else inside the sphere. In a fairly short
    time, the star would explode.

    It'd be rather like tieing down the safety valve on a boiler, except on
    a stellar scale.

    - --
    Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
     shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
    leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 16:09:03 PST
    From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
    Subject: Re: Travel Zones

    In mail you write:

    > OK, "Black Zones" are a very silly idea. In the UK, various military
    > installations aren't shown on maps. This gives them celebrety status
    > rather than an air of secrecy...

    Area 51 in the US was like that, they finally shut it down and moved
    things elsewhere. *So far*, the location of "elsewhere" isn't known for
    sure.

    - --
    Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
     shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
    leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 16:11:51 PST
    From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
    Subject: Re: Striker Artillery

    In mail you write:

    > Leonard Erickson wrote:
    >
    >>> -Unless the artillery unit has a battle computer, it loses the RPs if it
    >>> moves.
    >>
    >> Unless it moves to a previously prepared position. (Ie you "register"
    >> the guns from a *number* of positions, so you can fall back and still
    >> get the bonus).
    >>
    >> Obviously, this requires more preparation. How much depends on TL.
    >
    > My limited experience with TL 7-8 artillery (M110A2s) tells me that this
    > won't really work. You would have to occupy the exact same firing position
    > that you did when you registered to make it work.

    Which is exactly what I had in mind, and why I said it would take a lot
    of preparation. You'd have to use stakes of something to mark the
    posintion of the gun carriage, so you could get back into the same spot
    at the "fallback" positions.

    I vaguely recall reading about such positions in West Germany, for use
    in case of an invasion from the east. They had the location marked on
    the walls (a plaque set into the concrete of the more permanent ones),
    as well as marks for aligning the gun. And then they had the
    registration points on their maps. I assume that in these cases, they'd
    have to fire a couple of rounds anyway, just to correct for changes
    since the last time they used the position.

    Yet another reason why defenders have an advantage. :-)

    - --
    Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
     shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
    leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 16:35:53 PST
    From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
    Subject: Re: Black Travel Zones

    In mail you write:

    > Douglas Berry wrote:
    >>>2)  Does anybody actualy use the Black Travel from some old issue of White
    >>>Wolf magazine (I think).  It was a completely forbidden system that was
    >>>not even supposed to be placed on official starmaps due to matters of
    >>>Imperial Security.
    >>
    >>How are you going to hide the star?  Or prevent people from jumping there
    >>if they observe it?
    >
    > It sounds to me like the star isn't hidden, its just that everything
    > about the star system - even including the UPP and System Profile -
    > is considered an Imperial Secret.  The IISS cartographers won't put
    > anything about it on their star charts, the IN won't mention it in
    > their communiques, and anyone who goes there is lucky if they just
    > disappear.

    And as noted, leaving it off the official charts *screams* out "We're
    hiding something".

    > There are most certainly better ways to hide things.

    Definitely.

    - --
    Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
     shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
    leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 16:36:53 PST
    From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
    Subject: Re: Online graphics

    In mail you write:

    > Does anyone know where I could find some good graphics of futuristic or
    > modern type buildings? Things like satellite dishes, radio towers,
    > factories, etc... I want to use them in some player handout style webpages
    > for my campaign. I am looking for photorealistic type stuff - preferrably
    > free for personal use.

    Well, they won't be *free*, but a lot of stuff from Japanese "anime"
    related games shows up on alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.anime (and
    probably on other anime related groups in alt.binaries).

    > Also, does anyone have hexgrids in a gif or jpg file? I also want to make
    > some electronic maps of my space campaign.

    Someone on the list has some.

    - --
    Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
     shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
    leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 16:43:19 PST
    From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
    Subject: Re: Random thoughts

    In mail you write:

    > Well, I just got back from my semi-annual insanity knows as the December
    > Battle of the Great War Historical Society, and had a few random thoughts
    > that might be of interest to gamers:
    >         1)  You would be amazed what you can hear, expecially at night.
    > While in a forward listening post, I could clearly hear two people walking
    > across no-man's land.  Even though I could not hear the their words, I could
    > hear by the tone of their voices that they were relaxed and were probably
    > our own 'dead' returning from their fun by the allied lines.  I then heard a
    > distinctively-pitched tone of something brushing against a German helmet.
    > Later on, I could tell when the allies had started to cut our wire.  I read
    > once in a military manual about the 'proper way' to cut wire:  fold a bit of
    > cloth over the wire, cut most, but not all of the way though with cutters,
    > then carefully twist the wire by hand to break it - I always thought that
    > seemed a bit excessive until I heard the noise that wirecutters make at
    > night.  I even think that they were the sort that had little stops on the
    > handle because of the wooden *thuck* sound that was combined with the
    > higher-pitched click of the wire.
    >         2)  You would be amazed at the amount of noise people can make, even
    > when standing still.  When there were two other people on the trench with
    > me, the random noises they made were enough to drown out the other tiny
    > noises I was listening for - It takes a lot of discipline to get everyone to
    > be quiet.  The standard D&D image of the party in a dungeon, half a dozen
    > testosterone-crazed doofuses dressed in clanking metal, _trying_ to be quiet
    > while the "thief" listens at the door is more that a little silly.

    And being "vulnerable" makes your nerve endings stick out about 3 feet
    in all directions.

    BTW, armor *can* be quiet.

    - --
    Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
     shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
    leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 17:16:04 -0800 (PST)
    From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
    Subject: Re: Travel Zones

    On Mon, 4 Dec 2000, Legate Legion wrote:

    > From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
    >
    > >>    Doug, was there a world like that except it was men weren't anything
    > >>better that property?  And, if so, how would one of your wife's typical
    > >>characters react?
    > >
    > >"OoOOoohhh..  I inquire about the local real estate market."
    >
    >
    >     So, in other words, they would react badly to women being kept as
    > property, but they would not if men were?
    >
    Because it's just a game, it's kind of fun.  When you consider how women
    have historically been treated, in the context of a game, some of us enjoy
    the idea of turning the tables.  I run matriarchies in lots of my games.

    Doesn't mean I want one for real.

    Kiri  ^_^

    ******************************************************************************
    Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
    tiamat@tsoft.com

    "If time passes, everything turns into beauty
    If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
    Everything starts wearing fresh colors
    Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
    Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
    Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 14:29:45 +1300
    From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
    Subject: Re: Random thoughts

    On 4 Dec 2000, at 16:43, Leonard Erickson wrote:

    > And being "vulnerable" makes your nerve endings stick out about 3 feet
    > in all directions.
    >
    > BTW, armor *can* be quiet.

    And after the first couple of disasters from lack of noise discipline even the
    idiots (assuming they're still alive) will get the message. In the NZ Army
    there's (or was before Bosnia, etc - I don't know if they've changed focus,
    probably just in time for the Timor bush :) we spent a lot of time on
    bush/jungle warfare and noise discipline was a huge part of it. Many times in
    exercises the untis that did best were simply the ones that were the quietest
    and who left the least rubbish and mess to track them by.

    - --
    "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

    A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 17:58:26 -0800
    From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
    Subject: Shared Kill (was Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans)

    On Mon, 4 Dec 2000 15:25:32 -0500 (EST), "William 'Commander X' Prankard"
    <cmdrx@ao.net> wrote:

    >SCHPEEEEEEEEEWWWWW!!!!!!
    >
    >Another keyboard kill.  Congrats.

    How do we determine credit for this one, though?

    - --------------
    Kelly St.Clair     "Homines est! Dici omnes! Soylens viridis HOMINES EST!"
    kellys@efn.org

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 21:31:12 -0500
    From: "SwordWorlder" <SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Downport.com question

    Ron has always owned the domain name and paid the bills. Soon he may own the
    server it is on, as well. SwordWorlder has always provided the web
    development, at least up to this point. Currently, the Traveller Downport
    web site on the Downport.com domain, which includes many web Traveller
    sites, is undergoing an overhaul behind the scenes. The static content is
    getting a bit stale in the interim, unfortunately. After all is said and
    done however (some time after the first of the year), what is currently
    Traveller Downport will be split into four, separate sites: (1) the
    Downport.com portal to about ten Traveller web sites; (2) the Traveller
    Downport content in a somewhat different form than currently; (3) the
    TravellerTrader.com operating independently; and (4) and news-service /
    library data / informational web site (under a domain name that I own, but
    am yet not sure I can use).

    So there, Bloo. I think you got what you asked for, yes? Perhaps the only
    question left might be, "If Swordy does the site, why isn't his name on it?"
    Well, oddly enough, I just got sick of seeing my name on every blasted page
    and took it off one day when I was doing a site update.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<><~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Colin Michael, webmaster@downport.com
    www.Downport.com - "The Traveller Domain"

    - ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" <sdaniels@playnet.com>
    > I'm curious about the Downport site.
    > I thought that Swordworlder ran it, but I see that
    > Ronnie Brown is listed as the owner/benefactor.
    > Is that SwordWorlder?  Is my memory just poor?

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 18:35:43 -0800
    From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
    Subject: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth

    Another problem with Striker is that infantry are basically useless at
    higher TLs; they are sadly lacking any weapons which can damage even
    moderately-armored vehicles. The closest they come are the man-portble
    energy weapons, which are still much too small to put a dent in armor.

    To counter this, I propose a man-portable anti-tank rifle which fires
    collapsing [Californium] rounds. These weapons would then be able to damage
    armor, but are not too bad otherwise, since their blast radius is around 10
    cm.

    This seems an easy way to give infantry a more useful role at high TLs
    without introducing too many new and different concepts.

    Since collapsing rounds are not really weapons of mass destruction, having a
    blast radius comparable to conventional HE rounds, it seems somewhat
    reasonable to assume that they would be allowed under the Imperial rules of
    war.

    These weapons would probably be deployed with a two-man team, just MGs are
    today. You have a gunner who fires the weapon and a ammo bearer who carries
    the damper box required to carry the collapsing rounds.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 22:01:13 -0500
    From: "Dan Lane" <danielrlane@home.com>
    Subject: Re: Travel Zones

    Kiri, have you ever thought of developing Mora?

    It would be interesting to have a woman's viewpoint on it, particularly with
    the interaction of Norris' government and Delphine's.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 18:28:52 PST
    From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
    Subject: Re: B5 deck-plans

    In mail you write:

    > For those of you salivating about deck plans for B5, I hope you
    > realize that it is useless to expect me to do something about it --
    > SJ Games has a license for Traveller, but not for B5 (sorry).

    We know. But we are being silly.

    Besides, maybe we can motivate you guys to *get* the license. :-)

    - --
    Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
     shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
    leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

    ------------------------------

    End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3356
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    From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)
    To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com
    Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3357
    Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com
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    Traveller-digest     Tuesday, December 5 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3357

    (R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
    All rights reserved.

    The following topics are covered in this digest:

    Re: Travel Zones
    Re: Random thoughts
    Re: Area 51
    Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3356
    RE: Striker Artillery
    RE: Striker Artillery
    re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
    Re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
    Re: Striker Artillery
    RE: Striker Artillery
    Re: B5 deck-plans
    Re: B5 deck-plans
    Re: Travel Zones
    Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3356
    Re: Travel Zones
    Re: Bigger Than Worlds: Alderson Disk (was Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans)
    Re: Travel Zones
    Re: Random thoughts
    Re: Eugenics and the Solomani
    Re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
    Re: Black Travel Zones

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 18:45:17
    From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
    Subject: Re: Travel Zones

    At 06:02 PM 12/4/2000 -0700, you wrote:
    >From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
    >
    >>>    Doug, was there a world like that except it was men weren't anything
    >>>better that property?  And, if so, how would one of your wife's typical
    >>>characters react?
    >>
    >>"OoOOoohhh..  I inquire about the local real estate market."
    >
    >    So, in other words, they would react badly to women being kept as
    >property, but they would not if men were?

    In the context of the game, yes.  Her characters tend to be a bit over the
    top.  In reality, we're regular supporters of Amnesty International.
    - --

    Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
    http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 18:56:01
    From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
    Subject: Re: Random thoughts

    At 12:05 PM 12/4/2000 -0800, you wrote:

    >	1)  You would be amazed what you can hear, expecially at night.

    You'd also be amazed what you can do with all your senses.  In Vietnam,
    Rangers and Force Recon often track the VC bu the smell of the fish sauce
    they used on everything.  Tobacco smoke has a verydistinctive odor, and
    several times in training we detected an ambush because the troops ahead
    stank of cigarettes.

    But listening carefully is important.

    >	4)  If you are charging through an enemy position, remember to make
    >sure that there is no one behind you

    "If your attack is going well, it is an ambush.  If it is going far too
    well, you are walking into an ambush."

    >	5)  Twisted ankles suck.

    Twisted ankles before a 15-mile road march really suck.

    I'm curious, since you're into WWI recreations, if you've read Harry
    Turtledove's Great War series?  (American Front, A Walk In Hell, and
    Breakthrough)  Set in a world where the South won the Civil War, you have
    the Confederate States allied with Britain and France, and the US with
    Germany.

    Trench warfare in Virgina, a 75-year olf George Custer still in command of
    the US First Army, communist revolution among the blacks of the south...
    these books are fantastic.
    - --

    Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
    http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 22:27:21 EST
    From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Area 51

    > Area 51 in the US was like that, they finally shut it down and moved
    >  things elsewhere.

    Yeah, and it was absolute h*ll finding anything for months afterward. They
    never did find my chair -- I had it all broken in and . . .

    uh

    never mind

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 22:32:55 EST
    From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3356

    Leonard Erickson) saith in re B5 deck-plans
    >
    >  In mail you write:
    >
    >  > For those of you salivating about deck plans for B5, I hope you
    >  > realize that it is useless to expect me to do something about it --
    >  > SJ Games has a license for Traveller, but not for B5 (sorry).
    >
    >  We know. But we are being silly.
    >
    >  Besides, maybe we can motivate you guys to *get* the license. :-)

    All it takes is money -- and I can think of a quite a few other things I'd
    rather do with that much cash.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 19:33:30 -0800
    From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
    Subject: RE: Striker Artillery

    Steven Hudson wrote:

    >   You could try +1d6 per initiative level (1/2/3) for registration of
    > targets before the attack, with the ref specifying which batteries are
    > DS and thus able to be pre-registered.
    >
    >   Assuming regimental howitzers that gives you an average (3d6+2/4d6+6/
    > 5d6+10) initial deviation of ~500m/300m/100m for the three initiative
    > levels. Of course, they'll likely be scheduled for counter-battery, too!

    Not a bad idea. I think that I would prefer to use the "experience levels"
    instead because they are fairly uniformly used throughout Striker to model
    the difference between Traveller skill levels, between FO-1, FO-2, and FO-3,
    for example.

    In the bigger picture, the problem is that at higher TLs, artillery should
    hit the target. Period. Even at TL 9 you will have GPS on the gun and the
    observer, and some sort of laser rangefinder. Then all of this data will be
    fed into some computer system which them computes fire commands for the
    guns. In the US Army, we had the BCS system which could pretty much pull
    this off over ten years ago. Having TL 12 or TL 15 artillery miss the target
    by 500 meters just strains my suspension of disbelief too much.

    An idea I have been discussing with Kristian Miller is to give +DMs to
    having a battle computer at either the guns or the observer (modelling the
    GPS-like accurate position information), and maybe another +DM for a map box
    (modelling the high-tech rangefinding device which gives accturate target
    position information).

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 19:33:32 -0800
    From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
    Subject: RE: Striker Artillery

    Michael A Hoxie wrote:

    > 1.  Subsequent rolls for deviation after the first (as long as the FO
    > can view the target & communicate to the firers) cannot be lower than
    > the initial roll for MPI scatter.  If the firer rolled a "7" for scatter
    > on the first turn and rolled a "2" on the first turn of correction, the
    > second roll would be regarded as "7" (or optionally the correcting roll
    > could be made +1 or +2 higher than the previous roll).

    Yes, there is clearly a need for some sort of adjustment of this type.

    > 3.  The DMs used for FOs could be increased (say +4 cumulative per turn
    > for elite FOs, +3 for veterans, +2 for regulars, +1 for any average ini-
    > tiative recruits -- if you're using the experience rule from the campaign
    > rules section).  These DMs were based on the the direct fire hit DMs.

    This is probably one of the ways to do it which deviates the least from the
    Zen of Traveller.

    > 4.  A DM based on TL of firing weapons/fire direction center, maybe with
    > DM being equal to TL.

    I think that this can somewhat reflected in giving some sort of +DM based on
    battle computers. This assumes that you don't really want to create units
    for your gun crews, FDCs, carefully design artillery weapon systems, and all
    of that. Im my case, this is quite accurate. For the scenario which I plan
    to run at DunDraCon, I pretty much know how effective I want artillery to
    be, so I can SWAG a DM to make it that effective.

    > I think the direct fire by indirect fire weapons rule needs to be
    > changed.
    > It's currently possible to shoot at a target in front of the weapon and
    > have the MPI deviate to behind the firer's position.  There should be a
    > minimum range to this sort of thing (and a better DM than +2).  How about
    > 15 cm minimum with a +20 DM?

    Yes again. It seems fairly clear that Striker was designed for infantry
    combat. Once you start adding armored vehicles or other features (indirect
    fire, aircraft, etc), it starts to rapidly degrade. One big problem with
    armored combat is that a vehicle gets the initiative of the commander rather
    than the average of the crew, so on vehicles with fairly big crews, like my
    TL 5 Mark V clones, you get a force which is almost all high initiative.
    This takes away part of the feel of Striker. Other rules, like units taking
    damage uniformly also seem not quite right. I would much prefer each hit to
    be randomly decided so that you have a chance of one guy escaping unhurt. In
    general, though, the basic Striker rules are one of the best miniatures
    systems out there.

    This reminds me of a Space Marines game I played years ago. One of my guys
    thew a grenade at some sort of bad guy. It seems that grenades has a range
    of something like 2" in Space Marines, but rolled 1d6 for distance of
    scatter if you missed. In this case I rolled a 6, so the grenade scattered
    something like threee times as far as it could be thrown.

    If I had access to all of my Traveller stuff (I don't now since I'm out of
    town.), I could look up the descriptions of the Field Artillery and Forward
    Observer skills to see how they should be used in Striker. Maybe when I get
    back.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 19:53:34 -0800
    From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
    Subject: re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth

    >From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>

    >Another problem with Striker is that infantry are basically useless at
    >higher TLs; they are sadly lacking any weapons which can damage even
    >moderately-armored vehicles. The closest they come are the man-portble
    >energy weapons, which are still much too small to put a dent in armor.
    >
    >To counter this, I propose a man-portable anti-tank rifle which fires
    >collapsing [Californium] rounds. These weapons would then be able to damage
    >armor, but are not too bad otherwise, since their blast radius is around 10

    What can we do under the design rules?  I haven't actually looked at them
    regarding this subject, but I suggest the following research for you to do:

    - -Can a tac missile be designed with a Californium warhead?  Can it be made
    small enough to be man-portable?

    - -Would a small CPR gun with a Californium round work?  (I.e., what are the
    penetrations at TL 13 to 15 of 2cm to 4cm CPR guns?)

    - -Can you design a gun or missile launcher with a grav belt to eliminate the
    effect of weight?

    - -Can Ludowick's Mobile Anti-Armor Mine be modified to Striker compliance?

    - --Glenn

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 20:33:28 -0800
    From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
    Subject: Re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth

    Luther Martin wrote:
    >
    > Another problem with Striker is that infantry are basically useless at
    > higher TLs; they are sadly lacking any weapons which can damage even
    > moderately-armored vehicles. The closest they come are the man-portble
    > energy weapons, which are still much too small to put a dent in armor.

    So what's the problem?  The infantry just have to learn that sometimes
    life is tough.  :-(  Or we need to have fewer vehicles in our games.

    Kristian

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 20:44:13 -0800
    From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
    Subject: Re: Striker Artillery

    Luther Martin wrote:
    >
    > Michael A Hoxie wrote:
    ...
    > > could be made +1 or +2 higher than the previous roll).
    >
    > Yes, there is clearly a need for some sort of adjustment of this type.

    Hi Luther,

    The more I think about it, we may want to just scrap the Striker
    artillery system. I think there might be some fundamental flaws in how
    it models real world artillery (or even reasonable game artillery).  One
    point:

    The way the rules are now, the shells can only land in a ring for the
    earlier shots--no chance of a lucky first round "on target."  There's
    also no chance of a second round on target--the ring just gets smaller
    and smaller until you might be able to get an "on target" result.  A
    bell curve distribution centered the target point or the initial MPI
    isn't possible.

    Still, if we change the system it is no longer Striker that we are
    playing.

    Kristian

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 21:37:31 -0800
    From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
    Subject: RE: Striker Artillery

    Kristian Miller wrote:

    > The more I think about it, we may want to just scrap the Striker
    > artillery system. I think there might be some fundamental flaws in how
    > it models real world artillery (or even reasonable game artillery).  One
    > point:
    >
    > The way the rules are now, the shells can only land in a ring for the
    > earlier shots--no chance of a lucky first round "on target."  There's
    > also no chance of a second round on target--the ring just gets smaller
    > and smaller until you might be able to get an "on target" result.  A
    > bell curve distribution centered the target point or the initial MPI
    > isn't possible.
    >
    > Still, if we change the system it is no longer Striker that we are
    > playing.

    It can still be called Striker. You just invoke Rule 3, which lets the
    referee amend or modify the rules as he sees fit. You just need to decide
    for a given game who the referee is. This could be obvious from the context.
    Glenn is the prime candidate for referee for all things on Mongo, for
    example.

    In fact, since there are so few actual Striker players out there, it may
    actually be fairly easy to get a concensus of a particular amendment or
    modification. Just like the way the IETF works: people flame each other
    bitterly over minor changes for months but then settle on a reasonable
    middle ground in the end. Competitors usurp standards developed by their
    competition and then modify them away from the originator's implementation.
    The usual stuff. Then some industrious person writes up the results. In this
    case, maybe we get a JTAS article instead of an RFC. At least JTAS has moved
    into that new HTML technology.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 20:31:08 -0700
    From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
    Subject: Re: B5 deck-plans

    From: GDWGAMES@aol.com <GDWGAMES@aol.com>

    >For those of you salivating about deck plans for B5, I hope you realize
    that
    >it is useless to expect me to do something about it -- SJ Games has a
    license
    >for Traveller, but not for B5 (sorry).

        Didn't CEE lose the B5 deal?  So couldn't SJG get it?

        I bid you peace.

    Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
    ICQ # 8973001
    legate@futureone.com

    "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
    places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
    passes. Entil'zha Veni!"

    "I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
    USS Excaliber.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue,  5 Dec 2000 00:09:21 -0600
    From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@mail.elc.net>
    Subject: Re: B5 deck-plans

    From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>

    >From: GDWGAMES@aol.com <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
    >
    >
    >>For those of you salivating about deck plans for B5, I hope you realize
    >that
    >>it is useless to expect me to do something about it -- SJ Games has a
    >license
    >>for Traveller, but not for B5 (sorry).
    >
    >
    >    Didn't CEE lose the B5 deal?  So couldn't SJG get it?

    But would it be cost effective to get it? While there are a lot of B5 fans out there, I don't know if there would be a huge demand for a "dead" TV series.

    Hmm, well, they did do "The Prisoner" ... but I think the license for that was fairly cheap.

    A generous and sadistic GM,
    Brandon Cope

    http://www.geocities.com/copeab
    *** New: generic adventure seeds and Traveller page ***

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 23:26:54 -0700
    From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
    Subject: Re: Travel Zones

    From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>

    >>    So, in other words, they would react badly to women being kept as
    >>property, but they would not if men were?
    >
    >In the context of the game, yes.  Her characters tend to be a bit over the
    >top.  In reality, we're regular supporters of Amnesty International.

        Cool, just as long as it is in game.  *weg*
        Btw, do you play Star Frontiers?

        I bid you peace.

    Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
    ICQ # 8973001
    legate@futureone.com

    "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
    places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
    passes. Entil'zha Veni!"

    "I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
    USS Excaliber.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 23:29:14 -0700
    From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
    Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3356

    From: GDWGAMES@aol.com <GDWGAMES@aol.com>

    >All it takes is money -- and I can think of a quite a few other things I'd
    >rather do with that much cash.

    Loren,

        We already know what you would do with that money, but don't you think
    Bea Arthur is a bit old for you?

        I bid you peace.

    Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
    ICQ # 8973001
    legate@futureone.com

    "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
    places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
    passes. Entil'zha Veni!"

    "I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
    USS Excaliber.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 22:28:19 -0800
    From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com>
    Subject: Re: Travel Zones

    From: Dan Lane <danielrlane@home.com>
    To: traveller@lists.ient.com <traveller@lists.ient.com>
    Date: Monday, December 04, 2000 7:08 PM
    Subject: Re: Travel Zones

    >Kiri, have you ever thought of developing Mora?
    >
    >It would be interesting to have a woman's viewpoint on it, particularly
    with the interaction of Norris' government and Delphine's.
    >
    I thought someone else had already done that, but it might be fun.

    Kiri  ^_^

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 07:12:21 +0000
    From: Paul Campbell <kemitix@users.sourceforge.net>
    Subject: Re: Bigger Than Worlds: Alderson Disk (was Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans)

    On Mon, Dec 04, 2000 at 02:53:52PM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
    > Check out Niven's article "Bigger than Worlds". It's appeared in a
    > couple of his collections, as well as in Analog.
    >
    > You can get *much* bigger than that. Alderson Disks, Galactic Dyson
    > Spheres, Topopolises, etc.
    >
    > If you thought Ringworld required unobtanium, just consider what an
    > Alderson Disk requires. Picture a CD thousands of km thick, and so big
    > that it has a *star* in the hole. Yeah, it extends from (say) the orbit
    > of Mercury out past the orbit of Jupiter...

    Sounds surprisingly similar to Aylse, the Fantasy world that invades
    Earth in West End Games' TORG.  Although Aylse is *MUCH* *MUCH*
    smaller.  The star, however, still bobs from one side to the other,
    giving day and night.

    - --
    Paul Campbell (Sourceforge) <kemitix@users.sourceforge.net>
    GPG Key fingerprint = 9C4F 31A3 8814 9F94 A533 A979 E63F 0C69 A771 0F24
    http://www.kemitix.uklinux.net
    jupiter: 7:08am up 19 days, 21:08, 3 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 07:16:51 +0000
    From: Paul Campbell <kemitix@users.sourceforge.net>
    Subject: Re: Travel Zones

    On Mon, Dec 04, 2000 at 03:38:26PM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
    > In mail you write:
    >
    > > From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com>
    > >
    > >>Sorry, but that's not *possible* anywhere in "known space" except maybe
    > >>Dark Nebula sector.
    > >
    > >     Or maybe a Reft area?
    >
    > Nope. Being "empty",  The stars that are there are farther apart, and
    > easier to spot.

    Being further apart also makes it harder for people to get there and find
    what is being hidden.  So what if the astronomers can tell that there are
    Gas Giants or even some planets, if no one can jump there.

    But then, a Black Travel Zone would more likely to be placed on a
    world with circumstances that *can't* be relocated to another, more
    appropriate location.  In which case another method would be needed.
    Naval Test Range anyone?

    - --
    Paul Campbell (Sourceforge) <kemitix@users.sourceforge.net>
    GPG Key fingerprint = 9C4F 31A3 8814 9F94 A533 A979 E63F 0C69 A771 0F24
    http://www.kemitix.uklinux.net
    jupiter: 7:13am up 19 days, 21:13, 3 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 07:22:50 +0000
    From: Paul Campbell <kemitix@users.sourceforge.net>
    Subject: Re: Random thoughts

    On Mon, Dec 04, 2000 at 06:56:01PM +0000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
    > >	5)  Twisted ankles suck.
    >
    > Twisted ankles before a 15-mile road march really suck.
    >
    > I'm curious, since you're into WWI recreations, if you've read Harry
    > Turtledove's Great War series?  (American Front, A Walk In Hell, and
    > Breakthrough)  Set in a world where the South won the Civil War, you have
    > the Confederate States allied with Britain and France, and the US with
    > Germany.
    >
    > Trench warfare in Virgina, a 75-year olf George Custer still in command of
    > the US First Army, communist revolution among the blacks of the south...
    > these books are fantastic.

    I noticed these Great War books for the first time last weekend, but
    resisted the temptation.  I've always liked the idea of Alternate
    Histories, but the AH short stories I've read have left me lost,
    because my knowledge of History was poor for that era, so I missed a
    lot of the points the authors were making about the differences in the
    time lines.  Does Turtledove help much in that line?

    - --
    Paul Campbell (Sourceforge) <kemitix@users.sourceforge.net>
    GPG Key fingerprint = 9C4F 31A3 8814 9F94 A533 A979 E63F 0C69 A771 0F24
    http://www.kemitix.uklinux.net
    jupiter: 7:19am up 19 days, 21:19, 3 users, load average: 0.00, 0.02, 0.00

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 19:07:17 +1100
    From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au>
    Subject: Re: Eugenics and the Solomani

    I found this in my drafts box, so I figured it should get sent :)

    > From: "Dan Lane" <danielrlane@home.com>
    > Subject: Re: Eugenics and the Solomani
    >
    > Tod Glenn wrote
    > >
    > > I've always wondered about this.  Why?  After all, the Vilani are the
    > > non-curious.  Why would technological advancement pace faster in the 3I.
    > A
    > > culture of conservatism and a rigid aristocratic hierarchy doesn't seem
    > like
    > > it would be conducive to technological advance compared to a society
    that
    > > almost revels in change, and where social status is determined by drive
    > and
    > > ability.  It always seemed to me that it was more probable that the
    > > technologically equivalent or slightly superior Solomani were defeated
    by
    > > internal squabbling and a resource rich Imperium ('victory goes to the
    big
    > > battalions').

    My take on this is that the ideologies of the two societies do not reflect
    how they act in practice.

    In theory, the Imperium has a culture of conservatism, and a rigid
    aristocratic heirachy. In practice, the struggle for commercial advantage by
    Imperial corporate interests, and the pragmatic views of the IN and (to a
    lesser extent) the IISS aid technological development. The Imperial
    bureaucracies are also to a significant extent meritocracies, and while
    nobility is a road to power, power is also a road to nobility.

    In theory, the Solomani have a culture that promotes technological
    development. In reality, real technological change is hampered by the need
    of the Party to keep the levers of power in the hands of the ideologically
    sound - the Party and SolSec understand that ideas are levers of power, so
    the exchange of ideas has to be kept under controlled conditions. Ideally,
    this means concentrating the Best and Brightest in research institutions,
    where they and their work can be more easily monitored. Of course, this
    means a bureaucratisation of science and technology.

    A second issue is the role of destabalising technologies in a society with a
    military-industrial-political complex, such as the Solomani Confederation.
    Imagine for a moment that we have a world where the Groat Refining industry
    is used as a source of patronage by the Party. Introduction of new
    technologies or techniques would disrupt this industry, and thus the entire
    patronage network. Alternatively, introduction of new techniques by the
    non-Party controlled elements of the Groat Industry that reduces their costs
    could reduce the price of groats, resulting in the elimination of a profit
    center for the apparat. The apparat may thus decide that the introduction of
    this technique will be detrimental, beacause (after all), they are the
    State.

    A third issue is the concequences of the Imperial policy of non-intervention
    on member worlds. In the 3I, an unpopular theorist who will not work within
    the 'accepted' structures of technology development merely needs to find
    some backwater noble to shelter her, or some world that does not care what
    the wider Imperium thinks (indeed, support for dissident opinions may be
    unofficial policy for some planetary governments. Recall also that the mere
    existance of functioning democracies provides support for the basic case of
    democratic groups such as the Ine Givar). Sometimes, dissident theorists are
    right.

    Finally, technologies would not be politically neutral in the Confederation.
    Technologies and institutions will have patrons, and the fall of such a
    patron will affect how these technologies are seen. Adopting a faction's
    technologies may be seen as adopting that faction, especially by the more
    paranoid members of other factions. In the Imperium, licencing Makhadurin's
    crystal-lattice doping techniques is merely seen as proof that Makhadurin
    offered a better deal than anyone else (as an aside, the fact that
    Makhadurin et al kept paying Lucan his dividends during the early Black War
    is a strong indication that the Vilani megacorps will quite happily trade
    with those they are in tradewar with).

    > I've wondered this too, an I think that you could argue in favor of a
    vastly
    > higher TL SolCon if you wanted to.

    <good arguments deleted>

    My take is that the actual Solomani policy on technology was very different
    to it's stated ideology.

    Ian Whitchurch

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 19:02:37 +1100
    From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au>
    Subject: Re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth

    > From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
    > Subject: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
    >
    > Another problem with Striker is that infantry are basically useless at
    > higher TLs; they are sadly lacking any weapons which can damage even
    > moderately-armored vehicles. The closest they come are the man-portble
    > energy weapons, which are still much too small to put a dent in armor.
    >

    The counter to the fact that infantry cant hurt armour once point defense
    comes along to splat the ATGM is that once chameleon coatings come along,
    then vehicles have problems detecting infantry (especially if you enhance
    the detection DMs for vehicles moving faster than speed x, where x is
    related to TL).

    The infantry then get to report the vehicles back to HQ, which then makes
    sure the enemy armour are engaged by a superiour force (a related concept is
    that once grav comes into general use, then 'front lines' per se cease to
    exist, and things become far more like naval warfare).

    OK, so it doesnt solve the Cluster Bomblet Problem, but it helps ...

    > To counter this, I propose a man-portable anti-tank rifle which fires
    > collapsing [Californium] rounds. These weapons would then be able to
    damage
    > armor, but are not too bad otherwise, since their blast radius is around
    10
    > cm.
    >
    > This seems an easy way to give infantry a more useful role at high TLs
    > without introducing too many new and different concepts.

    The other option is to have the scenario heavily limit the 'heaviness' of
    high tech armour - Imperial Rules of War and all that.

    >
    > Since collapsing rounds are not really weapons of mass destruction, having
    a
    > blast radius comparable to conventional HE rounds, it seems somewhat
    > reasonable to assume that they would be allowed under the Imperial rules
    of
    > war.

    Not in my thinking - relying on fission, they are indeed 'nuclear weapons'.

    >
    > These weapons would probably be deployed with a two-man team, just MGs are
    > today. You have a gunner who fires the weapon and a ammo bearer who
    carries
    > the damper box required to carry the collapsing rounds.

    Personally, I'd prefer the damper box built into the weapon. I guess you
    could just use the recoiless rifle stats in a pinch.

    But I could see such a weapon seeing use in a Bad War, such as the Solomani
    Rim War.

    Ian Whitchurch

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 23:38:55 -0700
    From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
    Subject: Re: Black Travel Zones

    From: Walt Smith <firelock_ny@hotmail.com>

    >>How are you going to hide the star?  Or prevent people from jumping there
    >>if they observe it?
    >
    >It sounds to me like the star isn't hidden, its just that everything
    >about the star system - even including the UPP and System Profile -
    >is considered an Imperial Secret.  The IISS cartographers won't put
    >anything about it on their star charts, the IN won't mention it in
    >their communiques, and anyone who goes there is lucky if they just
    >disappear.
    >
    >There are most certainly better ways to hide things.

        You know a party in a Type A Free Trader is the most dangerous force in
    the Universe.  Able to survive a Meson Gun Blast, so I don't think they
    would disappear...

        I bid you peace.

    Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
    ICQ # 8973001
    legate@futureone.com

    "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
    places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
    passes. Entil'zha Veni!"

    "I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
    USS Excaliber.

    ------------------------------

    End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3357
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3358
Date: | 12/5/00 9:47:34 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Tuesday, December 5 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3358
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
RE: GT Beowolf Deckplans
RE: GT Beowolf Deckplans
Re: Area 51
Re: Area 51
re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
Re: Striker Artillery
RE: Striker Artillery
re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
Re: Random thoughts
Re: Area 51
Re: Striker Artillery
Re: Technology Marches On: Big Guns
More GT stuff
re: Technology Marches On: Big Guns
RE: Striker Artillery
Re: Random thoughts
Re: B5 deck-plans
OwlCon
Re: Black Travel Zones
Re: Random thoughts
Re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
Re: More GT stuff
Re: Random thoughts
RE: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 22:22:32 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: GT Beowolf Deckplans
Leonard Erickson wrote :
> In mail you write:
> > Do you really have to ask? Of course we do, along with the
> > Enterprise (NCC-1701, NCC-1701-A, B, C, D, & E), the Death
> > Star, the Sulaco, & quite a few others.
>
> The plans to the NCC-1701 are available, though pricey (I have the old
> Franz Joseph Designs deckplans :-). The later versions are available as
> well.
I have three sets, the Franz Joseph ones, the limited ones done in the later
Star Trek Technical Manual, including plans for Fed HQ, and the ones done by
FASA.
I also have plans for the Klingon D7 from FASA.
I remember seeing a blue-print for the Sulaco in an old StarLog or similar
magazine, back in when the film came out.
I also have blueprints for an Eagle and a Hawk from Space:1999 !
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 22:28:07 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: GT Beowolf Deckplans
Legate Legion wrote :
> > The plans to the NCC-1701 are available, though pricey
> > (I have the old Franz Joseph Designs deckplans :-).
> > The later versions are available as well.
>
> Ah, but I want canon deckplans... And, though the Franz
> Joseph ones are good, they are not canon
Actually, they _are_ canon for the NCC-1701 during ToS. You have to remember
wwhen those plans came out, way back in the early seventies. They were
approved by both Gene Rodenberry and Paramount at the time.
It was one of the reasons they said the NCC-1701 had undergone a refit in
the first movie.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 01:28:13 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Area 51
GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> > Area 51 in the US was like that, they finally shut it down and moved
> > things elsewhere.
>
> Yeah, and it was absolute h*ll finding anything for months afterward. They
> never did find my chair -- I had it all broken in and . . .
Uh? Loran the orange one that swivels?... I've got it.
You seen my Cofee mug?
Oh.... Well maybe they will for get.
- --
Evyn...
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he today that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so lowly,
This day shall enoble his rank.
Henry V - William Shakespeare
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 20:56:39 +1100
From: Robert Houghton <rhoughto@one.net.au>
Subject: Re: Area 51
I heard it had been moved to Bendigo, Victoria, Australia....I have a friend in
the RAN, a gunnery officer with and engineering degree, and for some reason
they keep sending him there... for those of us in other countries Bendigo is at
least 300 miles from the nearest ocean...
Other Rob
Evyn MacDude wrote:
> GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
>
> > > Area 51 in the US was like that, they finally shut it down and moved
> > > things elsewhere.
> >
> > Yeah, and it was absolute h*ll finding anything for months afterward. They
> > never did find my chair -- I had it all broken in and . . .
>
> Uh? Loran the orange one that swivels?... I've got it.
> You seen my Cofee mug?
>
> Oh.... Well maybe they will for get.
>
> --
> Evyn...
>
> We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
> For he today that sheds his blood with me
> Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so lowly,
> This day shall enoble his rank.
>
> Henry V - William Shakespeare
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 02:20:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com>
Subject: re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
In FF&S, GDW makes clear that collapsing round warheads on tac missiles
are a big no-no. Evidently, the missile doesn't have enough velocity
to initiate the chain reaction on impact.
- --- "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net> wrote:
<< -Can a tac missile be designed with a Californium warhead? Can it
be made small enough to be man-portable?>>
=====
Gerry Harris
**********************************************************************************************
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Soldier's Companion — http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html
**********************************************************************************************
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**********************************************************************************************
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http://shopping.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 02:24:31 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
>From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
>Subject: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
...
>This seems an easy way to give infantry a more useful role at high TLs
>without introducing too many new and different concepts.
...
>These weapons would probably be deployed with a two-man team, just MGs are
>today. You have a gunner who fires the weapon and a ammo bearer who carries
>the damper box required to carry the collapsing rounds.
You need to shrink damper boxes tremendously - a minimum size of
100kg is problematic for "classic" BD (although maybe not for G:T),
but Striker uses _1,000_ kg as the minimum - and scaling indicates
that smaller means much lesser efficiency (S3, p.39).
And a hyper-velocity 20mm A/C is _big_; a WW2-type 2cm ATR isn't
going to be much smaller for the velocity*.
*Type 97, MV = 793 mps, 51.75 kg, shot weight 162 grams.
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 02:34:10 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Striker Artillery
>From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
>Subject: Re: Striker Artillery
...
>The way the rules are now, the shells can only land in a ring for the
>earlier shots--no chance of a lucky first round "on target." There's
>also no chance of a second round on target--the ring just gets smaller
>and smaller until you might be able to get an "on target" result. A
>bell curve distribution centered the target point or the initial MPI
>isn't possible.
Someone pointed out the short time-periods involved, but there's
another solution that allows first shots on (rare as that should
be at low TL's!) - collapse the deviation table so that each 5cm
is only one number rather than the current two; thus, a 16+ is "on
target", and each pip below that is 5cm (50 scale meters). In that
case the current list of DM's can be used pretty much as written!
Steven Hudson
The CT Creed: There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its Product
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 02:37:00 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: RE: Striker Artillery
>From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
>Subject: RE: Striker Artillery
...
>Glenn is the prime candidate for referee for all things on Mongo, for example.
Surely you mean "for modifying mechanisms on Mongo"?
>In fact, since there are so few actual Striker players out there, it may
>actually be fairly easy to get a concensus of a particular amendment or
>modification.
Tell me about it - we had a half-dozen players at times here, but
I was the only one that actually cared about rules & design issues,
rather than just playing with the designs & forces covered.
OTOH, playing _is_ the main point, IIRC :>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 02:43:00 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
>Subject: re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
...
>- -Can a tac missile be designed with a Californium warhead? Can it be made
>small enough to be man-portable?
Tac missiles are (very!) low velocity weapons; collapsing rounds must
be fired from hyper-velocity weapons. FWIW, high(-er)-velocity missiles
should have some utility as KEAP rounds, but they'd also need a new
design sequence to cover even that.
Also, does the damper box have to contain the entire missile? Yes -
and can the warhead be attached just prior to firing? Maybe, but less
likely in the real word rather than the designers one :>
>- -Would a small CPR gun with a Californium round work? (I.e., what are the
>penetrations at TL 13 to 15 of 2cm to 4cm CPR guns?)
Obscene - but man-portability is exceedingly dubious without
significant re-writes of the hardware.
>- -Can you design a gun or missile launcher with a grav belt to eliminate the
>effect of weight?
Make the weapon gravsled-portable? Or give it wheels and hire a K'kree
to tow it...
>- -Can Ludowick's Mobile Anti-Armor Mine be modified to Striker compliance?
That was a robot, IIRC? Most (all?) Trav robot rules screw with all
sorts of OTU assumptions...
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 00:12:44 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Random thoughts
In mail you write:
>> 1) You would be amazed what you can hear, expecially at night.
>
> You'd also be amazed what you can do with all your senses. In Vietnam,
> Rangers and Force Recon often track the VC bu the smell of the fish sauce
> they used on everything. Tobacco smoke has a verydistinctive odor, and
> several times in training we detected an ambush because the troops ahead
> stank of cigarettes.
>
> But listening carefully is important.
And in the field "too paranoid" is hard to pull off.
> I'm curious, since you're into WWI recreations, if you've read Harry
> Turtledove's Great War series? (American Front, A Walk In Hell, and
> Breakthrough) Set in a world where the South won the Civil War, you have
> the Confederate States allied with Britain and France, and the US with
> Germany.
>
> Trench warfare in Virgina, a 75-year olf George Custer still in command of
> the US First Army, communist revolution among the blacks of the south...
> these books are fantastic.
I finished the most recent volume about a month back. And I have a
horrid suspicion how the *next* volume is going to go.
I can't say what it is without giving away the ending of the one I just
finished.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 00:19:28 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Area 51
In mail you write:
>> Area 51 in the US was like that, they finally shut it down and moved
>> things elsewhere.
>
> Yeah, and it was absolute h*ll finding anything for months afterward. They
> never did find my chair -- I had it all broken in and . . .
Oh, is *that* where that comfy chair in Warehouse 23 came from? :-)
> uh
>
> never mind
Too late.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 03:07:46 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Striker Artillery
>From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
>Subject: RE: Striker Artillery
...
>Yes again. It seems fairly clear that Striker was designed for infantry
>combat. Once you start adding armored vehicles or other features (indirect
>fire, aircraft, etc), it starts to rapidly degrade. One big problem with
>armored combat is that a vehicle gets the initiative of the commander rather
>than the average of the crew, so on vehicles with fairly big crews, like my
>TL 5 Mark V clones, you get a force which is almost all high initiative.
I wonder if that's not an interpretation issue with Rule 7? The problem
that you've stated would pretty much go away if clauses A & B were kept
separate rather than having B be dependent on A. Thus, while the vehicle
commanders morale score would be used for the entire vehicle crew per 7A,
you could then determine vehicle Initiative based on the actual morale
values contributed by the vehicle crews stats as supplied by the ref.
You could still get around that, but only by having the vehicle commander
be an officer (again per the refs allocations), and an Elite one at that.
Needless to say, High initiative in Striker requires Elites, or at least
Veterans with upgrades from the campaign rules.
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 03:18:41 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Technology Marches On: Big Guns
>From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
>Subject: Re: Technology Marches On: Big Guns (was RE: Striker Artillery)
...
>> "..A standard battery of six Crusaders slaved together
>> could therefore hurl 48 simultaneously-bursting shells
>> onto a single point by way of just an opening salvo.
>
>Better HOPE that point is the right one....friendly fire could get
>REALLY nasty in this sort of scenario.
Not that there'd be much left to complain :|
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 05:50:18 -0500
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: More GT stuff
The cover for GT Deckplans 1 is up on the SJ Games website, and they have
announced Deck Plans 2 (Modular Cutters) for February. Check out:
http://www.sjgames.com/newproducts/
http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/deckplan1/
http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/deckplan2/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 03:39:15 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: re: Technology Marches On: Big Guns
>From: "Smart, David J (David)" <dasmart@avaya.com>
>Subject: Technology Marches On: Big Guns (was RE: Striker Artillery)
...
>The US Army is getting a new 155mm howitzer called
>the "Crusader". According to the article on the
>Beyond 2000 website, "..Crusader will ultimately be
>capable of lobbing up to eight of those 155mm rounds
>into the air and have them impact the same point
>simultaneously.."
Time-on-target _from a single weapon_ is a relatively new
concept, although that may have been intended for "Paladin"
(?), which ISTR being the predecessor to "Crusader". The
possibility is at least vaguely implicit in Strikers ammo
type "variable ballistic munition", or in mass drivers, where
dial-a-charge is even more precise and reliable than liquid
propellant. It's no doubt not just the computers but also
the move away from bag charges that's allowing this?
...
>They could then go on to put down 15 tons of ammunition
>in the following five minutes.."
>
>Ouch. Time to update Striker.
Not really - that's pretty close to TL 8 15cm howitzers
in Striker, once you allow for the "15 tons of ammunition"
to include propellant, which the prose doesn't clarify.
(8 rpm @ 60kg, or up to 10 rpm if you allow TL 9; low of
6 rpm @ 70kg for 16cm @ TL 8).
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 04:22:46 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: RE: Striker Artillery
>From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
>Subject: RE: Striker Artillery
...
>Not a bad idea. I think that I would prefer to use the "experience levels"
>instead because they are fairly uniformly used throughout Striker to model
>the difference between Traveller skill levels, between FO-1, FO-2, and FO-3,
>for example.
Agree, although you might have to finesse the chart if you want to
maintain the rough current weighting of results (which I realize is
not the big point just now).
>In the bigger picture, the problem is that at higher TLs, artillery should
>hit the target. Period. Even at TL 9 you will have GPS on the gun and the
>observer, and some sort of laser rangefinder. Then all of this data will be
>fed into some computer system which them computes fire commands for the
>guns. In the US Army, we had the BCS system which could pretty much pull
>this off over ten years ago. Having TL 12 or TL 15 artillery miss the target
>by 500 meters just strains my suspension of disbelief too much.
Yep, but you have to decide whether to expand the DM's or compact
the table - if your main goal is to play low-tech then I'd do the
latter, as it may speed play somewhat, and still allows both lots
of shots to walk onto most targets, and some early accurate strikes
from good gun crews.
>An idea I have been discussing with Kristian Miller is to give +DMs to
>having a battle computer at either the guns or the observer (modelling the
>GPS-like accurate position information), and maybe another +DM for a map box
>(modelling the high-tech rangefinding device which gives accturate target
>position information).
If you want to use the charts and situational mods as written, then
all you need is to tweak the accuracy inputs for the weapon system
itself. An easy one to implement would be to factor the Fire Direction
Center in, at a bonus of (TL -5) to accuracy. Make the presence of a
battlefield computer (either on the platform or in a compact battery)
a +4 (?) DM.
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 05:34:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Random thoughts
Turtledove is a historian by trade, if that answers your question. I
found the books in the series (How Few Remain, Great War: The American
Front and Great War: Walk in Hell -- I'm waiting for Great War:
Breakthroughs to come out in paperback) real "no-putter-downers."
- --- Paul Campbell <kemitix@users.sourceforge.net> wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 04, 2000 at 06:56:01PM +0000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> > > 5) Twisted ankles suck.
> >
> > Twisted ankles before a 15-mile road march really suck.
> >
> > I'm curious, since you're into WWI recreations, if you've read
> Harry
> > Turtledove's Great War series? (American Front, A Walk In Hell,
> and
> > Breakthrough) Set in a world where the South won the Civil War,
> you have
> > the Confederate States allied with Britain and France, and the US
> with
> > Germany.
> >
> > Trench warfare in Virgina, a 75-year olf George Custer still in
> command of
> > the US First Army, communist revolution among the blacks of the
> south...
> > these books are fantastic.
>
> I noticed these Great War books for the first time last weekend, but
> resisted the temptation. I've always liked the idea of Alternate
> Histories, but the AH short stories I've read have left me lost,
> because my knowledge of History was poor for that era, so I missed a
> lot of the points the authors were making about the differences in
> the
> time lines. Does Turtledove help much in that line?
>
> --
> Paul Campbell (Sourceforge) <kemitix@users.sourceforge.net>
> GPG Key fingerprint = 9C4F 31A3 8814 9F94 A533 A979 E63F 0C69 A771
> 0F24
> http://www.kemitix.uklinux.net
> jupiter: 7:19am up 19 days, 21:19, 3 users, load average: 0.00, 0.02,
0.00
=====
Gerry Harris
**********************************************************************************************
Æther Traveller — http://www.aethertraveller.com
Soldier's Companion — http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html
**********************************************************************************************
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war" — Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1
**********************************************************************************************
__________________________________________________
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http://shopping.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 08:55:12 -0500
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: B5 deck-plans
At 08:31 PM 12/04/2000 -0700, you wrote:
>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
>
>
> >For those of you salivating about deck plans for B5, I hope you realize
>that
> >it is useless to expect me to do something about it -- SJ Games has a
>license
> >for Traveller, but not for B5 (sorry).
>
>
> Didn't CEE lose the B5 deal? So couldn't SJG get it?
CEE ceased operations when the owner took a job with another game company,
IIRC.
Kurt Feltenberger
"To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,
may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"
~Stephen Decatur
mailto:kurt@blazenet.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 10:09:16 -0600
From: Loren Wiseman <lkw@io.com>
Subject: OwlCon
FYI, I'll be a guest at OwlCon in Houston TX, Jan 19-21 2001 -- Anyone
within jump 1 is encouraged to show up and convince the con organizers they
have chosen their guest wisely. For more details, go to:
http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~owlcon/
Loren Wiseman
Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society http://jtas.sjgames.com/
SJ Games
lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
(512) 447-7866 VOX
(512) 447-1144 FAX
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 08:06:10
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Black Travel Zones
At 11:38 PM 12/4/2000 -0700, you wrote:
> You know a party in a Type A Free Trader is the most dangerous force in
>the Universe. Able to survive a Meson Gun Blast, so I don't think they
>would disappear...
Uh, no actually. I know that for a fact. Several years ago, I was running
a game with a group that decided to be real jerks, both to me and to
everyone in the campaign. I had asked them to try and keep to the tone of
the game, and even offered to switch to AD&D if they really just wanted to
hack and slash, but they insisted that my Traveller game was way cool, so I
continued.
Until the day came where, after a ridiculous number of events, they were
running from an armored cruiser. (I was hoping to run Prison Planet) They
kept refusing to surrender, and even pot-shotting the IN vessel! The
Captain was taunting the cruiser's crew over the commo, daring them to do
their worst.
So I did. Fired the spinal mount at them. After counting up the critical
hits (using Brilliant Lances) I informed them that they were all dead,
their ship was near mono-atomic dust, and that I was going to read a book.
Which I did. For about ten minutes, all I heard was muttering a whispers
from the kitchen, and then they came and apologized, and asked me to come
run again. I told them no f**king way, I was sick of having campaigns
ruined, and somebody else could sit in the hot seat.
This was the beginning of my Great Exodus from gaming, which culminated in
my touring with the Grateful Dead for one summer tour. I knew it was time
to head back when I started evaluating people I was living with as
potential campaign fodder.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
TML Great Old One, The Keeper of Penguins
Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse
Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 08:15:31
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Random thoughts
At 07:22 AM 12/5/2000 +0000, you wrote:
>I noticed these Great War books for the first time last weekend, but
>resisted the temptation. I've always liked the idea of Alternate
>Histories, but the AH short stories I've read have left me lost,
>because my knowledge of History was poor for that era, so I missed a
>lot of the points the authors were making about the differences in the
>time lines. Does Turtledove help much in that line?
Most of the changes are big and obvious, like the Confederacy or George
Custer being alive and well. Some of them are giggles to those of us who
read a lot of history, but aren't really necessary to enjoy the overall
plot. He isn't so much about pondering the differences, but t=more telling
a story that just happens to be in this world. And his attention to detail
is astounding. Ex: Since the US and Germany are big buddies, the
fashionable way to wear a moustache is in a "Kaiser Bill", mirroring Kaiser
Wilhelm's carefully waxed soup-strainer.
Harry Turtledove is one of those authors on my "screw the cost, buy it in
hardback!" list.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 09:07:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
Luther Martin writes:
> Another problem with Striker is that infantry are basically useless at
> higher TLs; they are sadly lacking any weapons which can damage even
> moderately-armored vehicles. The closest they come are the man-portble
> energy weapons, which are still much too small to put a dent in armor.
You may have to accept that infantry are not useful in conflict in any form
of open terrain. This is not obviously unreasonable. I suspect that in
cityfighting they should still have a reasonable chance of killing tanks,
because ranges may be short enough to make point defense minimally effective.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 18:28:47 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: More GT stuff
Christopher Thrash wrote:
> http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/deckplan2/
The link on the Traveller books page to Deckplan2 points instead to
Deckplan1...
http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/books.html
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 11:41:37 -0600
From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" <sdaniels@playnet.com>
Subject: Re: Random thoughts
Daniel Phelps wrote:
> It seemed that the patrol
> several miles out had seen quite vividly the brief flare of light.
IIRC, a dark-adapted human eye is 100,000 times more
sensitive to light than at it is when the sun is at high noon.
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 09:38:54 -0800
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: RE: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
Steven Hudson wrote:
> >This seems an easy way to give infantry a more useful role at high TLs
> >without introducing too many new and different concepts.
> ...
> >These weapons would probably be deployed with a two-man team,
> just MGs are
> >today. You have a gunner who fires the weapon and a ammo bearer
> who carries
> >the damper box required to carry the collapsing rounds.
>
> You need to shrink damper boxes tremendously - a minimum size of
> 100kg is problematic for "classic" BD (although maybe not for G:T),
> but Striker uses _1,000_ kg as the minimum - and scaling indicates
> that smaller means much lesser efficiency (S3, p.39).
>
> And a hyper-velocity 20mm A/C is _big_; a WW2-type 2cm ATR isn't
> going to be much smaller for the velocity*.
>
> *Type 97, MV = 793 mps, 51.75 kg, shot weight 162 grams.
Striker also allows for a shielded compartment to store collapsing rounds
[Striker 3, p. 40] which take up 4 times the volume and 3 times the weight
as the round it stores. For the sizes of rounds we are talking about here, 2
cm to 7 cm, this should be quite acceptable.
If we look at the weights of potential CPR guns to shoot collapsing rounds
we see that a 2 cm gun will weigh about 100 kg and a 4 cm gun will weigh
about 140 kg. The grav generators used on the PGMP-14 and the FGMP-15 reduce
the effective weight of the weapons by a factor of 10, so that we can
somewhat reasonably have a 2 cm gun which weighs 10 kg with its grav
generator on, or a 4 cm gun which weighs 14 kg with its grav generator on.
This is certainly within the range you need for a useful weapon.
Another note is that nuclear dampers work as point defense, so they can't
take out CPR gun fire. This makes the collapsing round weapons even more
useful.
Reading the Striker rules again, in particular Rule 40 E (Striker 2, p. 12),
we see that nuclear dampers can be used to eliminate radiation contamination
from nuclear weapons. This suggests other clever (i.e. unintentional) uses.
Perhaps you can zap the fuel used for a fusion power plant, neutralizing any
tritium in the process. If you assume that your power plant needs tritium to
work, maybe this will make the remaining fuel useless.
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3358
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3359
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, December 5 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3359
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Random thoughts
Re: Random thoughts
Re: OwlCon
RE: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
Re: Random thoughts
H Turtledove (was: Random thoughts)
Re: Random thoughts
Re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
RE: Striker Artillery
RE: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
Re: H Turtledove (was: Random thoughts)
Re: Random thoughts
Re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
Re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
Re: Random thoughts
Eyes
Re: Bigger Than Worlds: Alderson Disk (was Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans)
Re: Random thoughts
BITS/FFE books in UK - New Releases - 4th December 2000
Re: Bigger Than Worlds: Alderson Disk (was Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans)
beards
Re: Eyes
Re: Random thoughts
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 11:49:10 -0600
From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" <sdaniels@playnet.com>
Subject: Re: Random thoughts
Paul Campbell wrote:
> I noticed these Great War books for the first time last weekend, but
> resisted the temptation. I've always liked the idea of Alternate
> Histories, but the AH short stories I've read have left me lost,
> because my knowledge of History was poor for that era, so I missed a
> lot of the points the authors were making about the differences in the
> time lines. Does Turtledove help much in that line?
I've read a couple of his, the World War II + Aliens and the
Guns of the South. Guns of the South is *far* superior to
the later books. I haven't read the Great War ones. But I was
very impressed with GOTS.
bloo
P.S. I've been playing with an AH story for some time,
outlining and re-outlining and such (I'm sure many here
are acquainted with that sort of process). There is only
one significant change to history that I want to make and
see what happens. The change: Native American immunity
to smallpox. Mwahahaha!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 12:51:36 -0500
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Random thoughts
Walk in Hell is out in paperback?
Heck, Breakthroughs is out in hardcover?
Damn...
Sam
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 11:58:46 -0600
From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@mail.elc.net>
Subject: Re: OwlCon
From: Loren Wiseman <lkw@io.com>
>FYI, I'll be a guest at OwlCon in Houston TX, Jan 19-21 2001 -- Anyone
>within jump 1 is encouraged to show up and convince the con organizers they
>have chosen their guest wisely. For more details, go to:
>
>http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~owlcon/
>
Ooh, I'm close enough to this con ...
You going to be there every day of the con?
Brandon
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:21:12 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: RE: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
>From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
>Subject: RE: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
...
>> You need to shrink damper boxes tremendously - a minimum size of
>> 100kg is problematic for "classic" BD (although maybe not for G:T),
>> but Striker uses _1,000_ kg as the minimum - and scaling indicates
>> that smaller means much lesser efficiency (S3, p.39).
...
>Striker also allows for a shielded compartment to store collapsing rounds
>[Striker 3, p. 40] which take up 4 times the volume and 3 times the weight
>as the round it stores. For the sizes of rounds we are talking about here, 2
>cm to 7 cm, this should be quite acceptable.
Collapsing rounds require damper box storage :( - bottom of same page
>If we look at the weights of potential CPR guns to shoot collapsing rounds
>we see that a 2 cm gun will weigh about 100 kg and a 4 cm gun will weigh
>about 140 kg. The grav generators used on the PGMP-14 and the FGMP-15 reduce
>the effective weight of the weapons by a factor of 10, so that we can
>somewhat reasonably have a 2 cm gun which weighs 10 kg with its grav
>generator on, or a 4 cm gun which weighs 14 kg with its grav generator on.
>This is certainly within the range you need for a useful weapon.
<koff/> recoil! </koff>
But battle-dress could allow a 20mm to fire as a high-recoil weapon
(i.e., stationary only)?
Why not just 0.1 kt (or smaller?) nukes in small tac missiles - a ground-
hugging target will give a tertiary (massive collateral damage to civilian
victims) blast radius of only 200 meters if it goes off.
Admittedly, rank & file with nukes might worry some :)
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 10:30:12 -0800
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com>
Subject: Re: Random thoughts
>From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" <sdaniels@playnet.com>
>Subject: Re: Random thoughts
>
>Daniel Phelps wrote:
>
>> It seemed that the patrol
>> several miles out had seen quite vividly the brief flare of light.
>
>IIRC, a dark-adapted human eye is 100,000 times more
>sensitive to light than at it is when the sun is at high noon.
One fun passtime to try is verifying the old "Off-center Vision"
trick - The photo-sensitive cells in the retina come in two different types:
rods and cones. Rods are extremely sensitive to tiny amounts of light, but
are monochromatic. The cones, while sensitive to color, require a lot more
light to operate. The natural focus point for your eyes have a cluster of
cone cells, but slightly off to the side are areas richer in rod cells. Go
outside on a clear night and find the faintest star that you can still see,
one that winks out about half the time. Now focus your eye about 5-10
degrees off to the side - the star suddenly brightens and shines steadily.
If you look back to the star, it vanishes again.
Incidentally, dogs and cats have a much higher ratio of rods to
cones in their eyes (Cats, in particular, have other structures to assis
low-light vision). Owls' eyes are nearly all rods.
ObTrav - ummm.... Well, if a non-military PC is out in the dark, you
might have a little fun describing a faint object in the distance that keeps
disappearing every time he/she looks at it. Let them think they stumbled in
the wrong game for a moment before clueing them in. ("You mean I don't have
to make a Sanity roll? Whew!")
Rod Basler, COFIT (broke the attachment point for one of the
ligaments, by the way - gonna be in an ankle brace and a cane for a while,
and no March battle...probably to my wife's secret relief)
- --------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer - It's not their fault, OK?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 10:59:48 -0800
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: H Turtledove (was: Random thoughts)
> I'm curious, since you're into WWI recreations, if you've read Harry
> Turtledove's Great War series? (American Front, A Walk In Hell, and
> Breakthrough) Set in a world where the South won the Civil War, you have
> the Confederate States allied with Britain and France, and the US with
> Germany.
>
> Trench warfare in Virgina, a 75-year olf George Custer still in command of
> the US First Army, communist revolution among the blacks of the south...
> these books are fantastic.
> --
Next on my list, given your review. I'm currently reading the "In the
Balance series". Aliens show up to invade the earth during WWII. Their
intel is based on drone recon from 1100AD. How much can a species change in
800 years?
Great read.
Tod
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 10:55:32 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Random thoughts
In mail you write:
>
> Daniel Phelps wrote:
>
>> It seemed that the patrol
>> several miles out had seen quite vividly the brief flare of light.
>
> IIRC, a dark-adapted human eye is 100,000 times more
> sensitive to light than at it is when the sun is at high noon.
Well, I don't know about *that*, but I do know that some folks eyes
respond *very* differently to changes in brightness.
For example, once my eye are dark adapted, I can walk up to a campfire,
or even a campsite with a Coleman lantern, spend a few minutes there,
then step back into the "dark", wait for a few seconds (about as long
as it'd take to walk 10-20) and I'll be able to see quite well agian.
The downside is that on bright sunny days, going outside it takes a
*long* time for my eyes to adapt. It's acutely *painful* without
sunglasses. And it's that way for 5-10 minutes *minimum*.
On the gripping hand, sunglasses are cheaper than light amplification
googles, and I can squint real hard if I have to. :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 11:04:21 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
>From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
>Luther Martin wrote:
>>
>> Another problem with Striker is that infantry are basically useless at
>> higher TLs; they are sadly lacking any weapons which can damage even
>> moderately-armored vehicles. The closest they come are the man-portble
>> energy weapons, which are still much too small to put a dent in armor.
>
>So what's the problem? The infantry just have to learn that sometimes
>life is tough. :-( Or we need to have fewer vehicles in our games.
It's not that hard to develop reasonable scenarios in which infantry have a
real role and real effectiveness. The most obvious to me is the high-tech
infantry vs low-tech armor -- that TL 16 mercenary battalion on Saurus or
Tavonni or wherever holding off the TL 10 Sword Worlds army for many turns
in Fifth Frontier War. The TL difference need not be so large, particulaly
in the company-level games typical of our Striker experience.
Another believable scenario might be a surprise attack. The defenders'
vehicles engines are off and they have electronic detection gear and a few
infantry patrols. The attackers have ways to address the electronics and
slip in without vehicles. The game is about the attackers destroying their
target (the commo shack? the barracks? the fuel? the ammo dump?) (or maybe
capturing an officer) and getting out to their extraction point without
unacceptable casualties.
About refereeing Striker, I was the referee for our first game. I would be
happy to do it again, and like the idea of rotating referee duties. It is
good to have a referee to decide what your units actually do with your
orders.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 11:04:22 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)
> You need to shrink damper boxes tremendously - a minimum size of
>100kg is problematic for "classic" BD (although maybe not for G:T),
>but Striker uses _1,000_ kg as the minimum - and scaling indicates
>that smaller means much lesser efficiency (S3, p.39).
>
> And a hyper-velocity 20mm A/C is _big_; a WW2-type 2cm ATR isn't
>going to be much smaller for the velocity*.
The basic size for a 2cm high-velocity CPR gun in Striker is 100kg. A
soldier in battle dress is encumbered if he carries 100 to 200kg. I think
that the weapon can be designed.
I have not looked at the damper box rule; it could torpedo the whole idea.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 11:04:24 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Striker Artillery
>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)
>>From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
>>Glenn is the prime candidate for referee for all things on Mongo, for
example.
>
> Surely you mean "for modifying mechanisms on Mongo"?
Maybe: refereeing rules related to mundane Mongon mechanism modifications.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 11:04:26 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
>From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
>Reading the Striker rules again, in particular Rule 40 E (Striker 2, p.
12),
>we see that nuclear dampers can be used to eliminate radiation
contamination
>from nuclear weapons. This suggests other clever (i.e. unintentional) uses.
>Perhaps you can zap the fuel used for a fusion power plant, neutralizing
any
>tritium in the process. If you assume that your power plant needs tritium
to
>work, maybe this will make the remaining fuel useless.
This could be the surprise attack scenario that I discussed. The sappers
either bring in their own nuclear damper or have to capture, activate, and
use the ND in the camp to neutralize something (fuel, nuclear warheads,
etc.).
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 13:24:10 -0600
From: Stormhound <stormhnd@fidnet.com>
Subject: Re: H Turtledove (was: Random thoughts)
I personally like all his books, including the fantasy works; there's one
he did with Richard Dreyfuss ("The Two Georges") that some of you folks might
like. It postulates a world in which Britain still rules most of North
America.
- --
Stormhound
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 19:30:01 +0000
From: Paul Campbell <kemitix@users.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: Random thoughts
On Tue, Dec 05, 2000 at 08:15:31AM +0000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> At 07:22 AM 12/5/2000 +0000, Paul Campbell wrote:
> >I noticed these Great War books for the first time last weekend,
> >but resisted the temptation. I've always liked the idea of
> >Alternate Histories, but the AH short stories I've read have left
> >me lost, because my knowledge of History was poor for that era, so
> >I missed a lot of the points the authors were making about the
> >differences in the time lines. Does Turtledove help much in that
> >line?
>
> Most of the changes are big and obvious, like the Confederacy or
> George Custer being alive and well. Some of them are giggles to
> those of us who read a lot of history, but aren't really necessary
> to enjoy the overall plot. He isn't so much about pondering the
> differences, but t=more telling a story that just happens to be in
> this world. And his attention to detail is astounding. Ex: Since
> the US and Germany are big buddies, the fashionable way to wear a
> moustache is in a "Kaiser Bill", mirroring Kaiser Wilhelm's
> carefully waxed soup-strainer.
>
> Harry Turtledove is one of those authors on my "screw the cost, buy
> it in hardback!" list.
Thanks Doug, Bloo and Gerry. I guess I'll give in and add some
Turtledove to by already 6' high "To Read" pile, and that's 2/3
paperbacks.
- --
Paul Campbell (Sourceforge) <kemitix@users.sourceforge.net>
GPG Key fingerprint = 9C4F 31A3 8814 9F94 A533 A979 E63F 0C69 A771 0F24
http://www.kemitix.uklinux.net
jupiter: 7:22pm up 20 days, 9:22, 2 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 11:02:32 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
In mail you write:
>>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
>>Subject: re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
> ...
>>- -Can a tac missile be designed with a Californium warhead? Can it be made
>>small enough to be man-portable?
>
> Tac missiles are (very!) low velocity weapons; collapsing rounds must
> be fired from hyper-velocity weapons. FWIW, high(-er)-velocity missiles
> should have some utility as KEAP rounds, but they'd also need a new
> design sequence to cover even that.
How about collapsing gauss rounds? With the damper box doubling as a
magazine?
I'm picturing something along the line of a box of .50 ammo (or
bigger). And a weapon about the size of a Boys or Lahti.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 11:04:34 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
In mail you write:
> In FF&S, GDW makes clear that collapsing round warheads on tac missiles
> are a big no-no. Evidently, the missile doesn't have enough velocity
> to initiate the chain reaction on impact.
Actually, the problem is that the chain reaction will *start*, much as
it would if you dropped a 2/3rd critical mass chunk of plutonium on
another 2/3rd critical mass chunk.
But without all the inertia (from high velocity be it from a gun or
from explosive implosion) the first little bit of energy is enough to
blow the pieces apart, ending the reaction before more than a fraction
of the potential "boom" is released.
This is called a "squib" explosion, and has happened a few times in the
early days of the US nuclear program. It's rather fatal for anybody
nearby, because the x-ray flux is well into the lethal range. And
because it tends to scatter fissionables all over the place.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 11:40:54 -0800
From: "Pronto" <pronto_r031@telus.net>
Subject: Re: Random thoughts
> In mail Leonard writes:
>
> Well, I don't know about *that*, but I do know that some folks eyes
> respond *very* differently to changes in brightness.
>
> For example, once my eye are dark adapted, I can walk up to a campfire,
> or even a campsite with a Coleman lantern, spend a few minutes there,
> then step back into the "dark", wait for a few seconds (about as long
> as it'd take to walk 10-20) and I'll be able to see quite well agian.
>
> The downside is that on bright sunny days, going outside it takes a
> *long* time for my eyes to adapt. It's acutely *painful* without
> sunglasses. And it's that way for 5-10 minutes *minimum*.
>
> On the gripping hand, sunglasses are cheaper than light amplification
> googles, and I can squint real hard if I have to. :-)
>
I'd like to have your 'disability'. Ten years ago it took at least 30
minutes for my eyes to acquire useful 'nightsight' and the light from the
dial on a 25 set would set me back to start.
My nightsight has been deteriorating with age and my optometrist tells me my
nicotine habit is making it even worse. I'm afraid to find out how bad it is
now.
Pronto
AKA Brian Taylor
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 13:47:12 -0600
From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" <sdaniels@playnet.com>
Subject: Eyes
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> In mail you write:
> >
> > IIRC, a dark-adapted human eye is 100,000 times more
> > sensitive to light than at it is when the sun is at high noon.
>
> Well, I don't know about *that*, but I do know that some folks eyes
> respond *very* differently to changes in brightness.
I'll bet your eyes are blue? Iris color and sensitivity are related.
Brown eyes least, blue most.
> The downside is that on bright sunny days, going outside it takes a
> *long* time for my eyes to adapt. It's acutely *painful* without
> sunglasses. And it's that way for 5-10 minutes *minimum*.
Ditto.
While we're on the subject, back in college astronomy,
taught by a former eye doctor who loved complicated math
(it was no gut course), we got lots of info about eyes.
The color that the human eye is most sensitive too,
and can detect at the greatest distance, is the same frequency
of yellow as Sol.
Ob. trav., with humans living for thousands of years
on planets orbitting stars of different colors, especially
when perceived through different atmospheres, might
not many of them adapt and have overlapping areas
of sensitivity?
There is also the issue of Tetrachromacy (the ability
to see four colors instead of three). Some scientists
in England believe they may have found two women
who have this condition. Apparently, the condition
can't happen in men, because of chromosomal issues.
Really interesting story on the subject here:
http://www.redherring.com/mag/issue86/mag-mutant-86.html
Does this mean starships need incandescent lights, to
emit a more robust spectrum of light?
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 11:15:06 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Bigger Than Worlds: Alderson Disk (was Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans)
In mail you write:
> On Mon, Dec 04, 2000 at 02:53:52PM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> Check out Niven's article "Bigger than Worlds". It's appeared in a
>> couple of his collections, as well as in Analog.
>>
>> You can get *much* bigger than that. Alderson Disks, Galactic Dyson
>> Spheres, Topopolises, etc.
>>
>> If you thought Ringworld required unobtanium, just consider what an
>> Alderson Disk requires. Picture a CD thousands of km thick, and so big
>> that it has a *star* in the hole. Yeah, it extends from (say) the orbit
>> of Mercury out past the orbit of Jupiter...
>
> Sounds surprisingly similar to Aylse, the Fantasy world that invades
> Earth in West End Games' TORG. Although Aylse is *MUCH* *MUCH*
> smaller. The star, however, still bobs from one side to the other,
> giving day and night.
The problem is that such "bobbing" takes place on a time scale more
suited to *seasons* (ok, short ones, but still). And the "day" is
rather odd, at that.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 12:13:02 -0800
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com>
Subject: Re: Random thoughts
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
>Subject: Re: Random thoughts
>
>At 12:05 PM 12/4/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>
>> 1) You would be amazed what you can hear, expecially at night.
>
>You'd also be amazed what you can do with all your senses. In Vietnam,
>Rangers and Force Recon often track the VC bu the smell of the fish >sauce
>they used on everything. Tobacco smoke has a verydistinctive odor, and
>several times in training we detected an ambush because the troops ahead
>stank of cigarettes.
I've got a pretty good nose, but I know I am a piker compared to
professionals - and I keep wondering what it would be like to have the sense
that a dog has (Vargr, anyone?) When I worked in a chemistry lab, I could
easily tell the different varieties of alcohol apart (methyl, ethyl,
isoporpyl, denatured ethyl, all have very distinctive odors). You can not
only tell when a person has come back from a smoke break, you can tell if
they have been in a room recently. I once followed some bozo all over the
company, tracking by smell, just to see if I could do it - he was wearing
way too much sandalwood-based cologne, and the scent would linger in the air
behind him for several minutes. I could walk down the hall and tell when he
had turned down a different corridor because the smell would suddenly
vanish...just backtrack to the place where the smell begins again and take
that hallway. A fun excercise and highly recommended if you enjoy "freaking
the mundanes" by wandering around the building, sniffing the air like a dog.
>I'm curious, since you're into WWI recreations, if you've read Harry
>Turtledove's Great War series? (American Front, A Walk In Hell, and
>Breakthrough) Set in a world where the South won the Civil War, you >have
>the Confederate States allied with Britain and France, and the US with
>Germany.
>
>Trench warfare in Virgina, a 75-year olf George Custer still in command >of
>the US First Army, communist revolution among the blacks of the south...
>these books are fantastic.
I've seen them, but have not read them yet - primarily because I am
working my way through too many normal books on the conflict (Current one is
_Storm_of_Steel_ by Ernst Junger. The next one I want to get is
_A_Rifleman_Went_To_War_ by MacBride.) I picked up the earlier book
Turtledove did on the alien invasion during WWII, opened the book at random
to the section where the German railroad gun fires on the alien ship...
coooolll ..., but then I have a minor fascination/fetish for railroad guns
(Keep the Freudian jokes to a minimum, OK? As the old man might have said,
"Sometimes a cannon is just a cannon").
Rod Basler, COFIT
- ----------------------------------------------
Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 20:20:09 +0000
From: Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: BITS/FFE books in UK - New Releases - 4th December 2000
At 12:24 +0000 5/12/00, Leisure Games wrote:
>From: "Leisure Games" <shop@leisuregames.com>
>
>Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 12:24:44 -0000
>X-Priority: 3
>
>New Releases Due To Be Delivered To Us On Wednesday 6th December (unless
>otherwise stated):
>Title & brief description: Price: Publisher:
<snip>
>Traveller Bibliography
>(Traveller)
>£9.95
>BITS
>
>Traveller Periodical Bibliography
>(Traveller)
>£9.95
>BITS
>
>Classic Traveller Rules 0-8
>(reprint)
>£18.95
>FFE
I received this today from Leisure Games in London, who mail order.
Dom
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 12:40:54 -0800
From: Gordon Horne <gordon.horne@home.com>
Subject: Re: Bigger Than Worlds: Alderson Disk (was Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans)
>Note that the inner rim is a good place for "fire giants", red Dragons
>and other heat loving critters (lakes of molten lead, anyone?). And the
>outer rim is great for "frost giants" and their friends (lakes of
>liquid ammonia?). It gets even better if you extend it out to 10 AU or
>even 30 AU... And in the FRP, you don't need to explain why the sun is
>always on the horizon and the stars don't move in the sky.
You'd need a really good horse to get from 0.4 AU to 4+ AU in a
reasonable time. 8^)
g
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 20:49:58 -0000
From: "Erick ..." <siniypiva@hotmail.com>
Subject: beards
>>BTW, is there some rule that we (male) gamers must wear glasses and have
>> beards?
>Article seven, section three: 1 "Required Appearance"
>>Well, at least Loren has kept far more of his hair than I have ...
>Every one of my male siblings is 100-watt softwhite bald . . .
well than, I suppose I am in violation, as I do not have a beard or
glasses, not my fault tho, as a young buck I am unable to grow a respectable
beard ;Þ
erick
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 12:57:24 -0800
From: Gordon Horne <gordon.horne@home.com>
Subject: Re: Eyes
>There is also the issue of Tetrachromacy (the ability
>to see four colors instead of three). Some scientists
>in England believe they may have found two women
>who have this condition. Apparently, the condition
>can't happen in men, because of chromosomal issues.
>
I happen to have significantly different colour sensitivity in either
eye. On one of those colour dot diagrams used to test for colour
blindness i could see both numbers clearly. Can't remember which
diagram, though. Some neat tricks are possible when you can tell
which eye is receiving which part of the image. I'm quite good at
spotting camouflaged things as the level of blending is rarely the
same in both eyes.
ObTML: There are a lot of mutants on this list, aren't there 8^)
TTFN
g
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 15:58:57 -0500
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Random thoughts
>(Keep the Freudian jokes to a minimum, OK? As the old man might have said,
"Sometimes a cannon is just a cannon").<
Yes, but as my corollary says,
"But the rest of the time it is still a ..."
Sam
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3359
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3360
Date: | 12/5/00 1:46:30 PM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, December 5 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3360
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
RE: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
RE: Beard/glasses
Re: Eyes
Re: Black Travel Zones
RE: Beard/glasses
Powered Armor?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 13:01:46 -0800
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: RE: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
Steven Hudson wrote:
> Collapsing rounds require damper box storage :( - bottom of same page
Doh. I guess that we're stuck with adding a grav generator to the damper box
also. Add enough grav power and even a damper box gets manageable. Add even
more grav generators and the complete Advanced Squad Leader rules get
manageable.
> >If we look at the weights of potential CPR guns to shoot
> collapsing rounds
> >we see that a 2 cm gun will weigh about 100 kg and a 4 cm gun will weigh
> >about 140 kg. The grav generators used on the PGMP-14 and the
> FGMP-15 reduce
> >the effective weight of the weapons by a factor of 10, so that we can
> >somewhat reasonably have a 2 cm gun which weighs 10 kg with its grav
> >generator on, or a 4 cm gun which weighs 14 kg with its grav
> generator on.
> >This is certainly within the range you need for a useful weapon.
>
> <koff/> recoil! </koff>
>
> But battle-dress could allow a 20mm to fire as a high-recoil weapon
> (i.e., stationary only)?
Why not just assume that the grav generators make the recoil acceptable
also?
> Why not just 0.1 kt (or smaller?) nukes in small tac missiles -
> a ground-
> hugging target will give a tertiary (massive collateral damage to civilian
> victims) blast radius of only 200 meters if it goes off.
But you need to detonate these away from the target, otherwise the PD
weapons take them out. I don't remember if it's 10 cm away or 15 cm away.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 19:44:27 -0000
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Beard/glasses
Lets' see ... beard? Yup. Glasses? Yup. Bald? Yup (well - getting that
way). Overweight? Ah ha! I _knew_ that I wasn't an average Trav.
player!!
- --
Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK
Email : mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk
Website : www.mpreston.demon.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 15:24:05 -0600
From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" <sdaniels@playnet.com>
Subject: Re: Eyes
Gordon Horne wrote:
> ObTML: There are a lot of mutants on this list, aren't there 8^)
Years ago, I recall reading in some technical scientific document,
like scientific american or something along those line, that only
about 3% of humans are without mutations. Though that would
depend on how you define "mutation". According to
http://www.graylab.ac.uk/cgi-bin/omd?mutation
Mutation:
"A permanent transmissible change in the genetic material, usually
in a single gene. Also, an individual exhibiting such a change. Also
called (in classical genetics) a sport."
Aha! I smell Grandfather!! Those Droyne Sports are MUTANTS!
RUN!!!!!!
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 13:33:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Black Travel Zones
>>
...Or, perhaps the others are simply stars with no
planets.....MAC
>>
- --- Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote:
> In mail you write:
>
> > Douglas Berry wrote:
> >>>2) Does anybody actualy use the Black Travel
> from some old issue of White
> >>>Wolf magazine (I think). It was a completely
> forbidden system that was
> >>>not even supposed to be placed on official
> starmaps due to matters of
> >>>Imperial Security.
> >>
> >>How are you going to hide the star? Or prevent
> people from jumping there
> >>if they observe it?
> >
> > It sounds to me like the star isn't hidden, its
> just that everything
> > about the star system - even including the UPP and
> System Profile -
> > is considered an Imperial Secret. The IISS
> cartographers won't put
> > anything about it on their star charts, the IN
> won't mention it in
> > their communiques, and anyone who goes there is
> lucky if they just
> > disappear.
>
> And as noted, leaving it off the official charts
> *screams* out "We're
> hiding something".
>
> > There are most certainly better ways to hide
> things.
>
> Definitely.
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 13:41:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
Subject: RE: Beard/glasses
On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, Mark Preston wrote:
> Lets' see ... beard? Yup. Glasses? Yup. Bald? Yup (well - getting that
> way). Overweight? Ah ha! I _knew_ that I wasn't an average Trav.
> player!!
I'm overweight, but my vision is OK. But for some reason I seem to be
missing the beard.....
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..." -- X-JAPAN
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 13:43:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>
Subject: Powered Armor?
- --0-916726694-976052622=:12978
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>>
Hi All,
This is somehthing a friend of mine sent me.
It is supposed to be a prototype of a 'powered
armor suit' that the Defense Advanced Research
Projects Agency (DARPA) asked to be developed thru a
RFP (Request For Proposal).
I was going to title this msg 'Battledress v1.0',
but, looking at the pic, I'm not so sure, now.
I'll try to find the site-ref.
M.A.Cessna
>>
Note: forwarded message attached.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
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Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 13:18:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Cessna <tdoffclinkerbuilt@yahoo.com>
Subject: Fwd: Pic of suit
To: Cuenet <MorrowProject@cuenet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>>
...OK, this is supposed to be a pic of one of the
candidates for the DARPA HAAM project. Friend of mine
found it on a site. I'll try to recover the link...
M.A.Cessna
>>
Note: forwarded message attached.
=====
Michael A. Cessna
************************************************************
"There is no such thing as low intensity violence."
A. M. Gray, Commandant, USMC (ret)
************************************************************
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/
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Reply-To: "Boo Bunky" <boochick@gte.net>
From: "Boo Bunky" <boochick@gte.net>
To: "Sir Michael" <tdoffclinkerbuilt@yahoo.com>
Subject: Pic of suit
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 08:42:23 -0800
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Oh sure, but what's the speed of dark?
Well............................
true 0 it is actually an absence of existence. Unless of course you are
referring to spacial darkness then it would be dependent on the rate the
space time continuum is currently moving as well as the direction as in =
this
instance unlike light spacial darkness has the ability to move in a
negative manner.
=20
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<DIV><IMG=20
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pg"></DIV>
<DIV>size=3D4>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Oh sure,=20
but what's the speed of dark?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>size=3D4>Well............................</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>true 0 it is actually an =
absence of=20
existence. Unless of course you are
referring to spacial darkness =
then it=20
would be dependent on the rate the
space time continuum is currently =
moving=20
as well as the direction as in this
instance unlike light spacial =
darkness=20
has the ability to move in a
negative manner.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>size=3D4>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
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- ------=_NextPart_000_00F7_01C05E97.495F9F50--
- --0-2142757034-976051123=:7666--
- --0-916726694-976052622=:12978--
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3360
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3361
Date: | 12/5/00 5:05:16 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Tuesday, December 5 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3361
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Imperial Marine Jodies....
Re: Random thoughts
Re: Bigger Than Worlds: Alderson Disk (was Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans)
RE: Eyes
Re: Eyes
Re: Random thoughts
Re: beards
Re: Random thoughts
Re: Black Travel Zones
looking for R Prior
Re: looking for R Prior
Hiding in Plain Sight and Jump Tapes (was Re: Travel Zones)
RE: looking for R Prior
Re: Eyes
Re: Travel Zones
Re: Random thoughts
RE: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
Re: "Shadows" and the Hhkar
Re: Random thoughts
Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans
Re: Eyes
Re: Shared Kill (was Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans)
Re: Deckplans for the big stuff
Re: Travel Zones
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 13:49:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>
Subject: Imperial Marine Jodies....
Hi All,
Here's one for the troops on the Solomani
border....for obvious reasons......M.A.Cessna
Up in the mornin',
With the dirty ol' sods
I went to the bay,
And checked my pod,
Old tin can
In a launch or-bit,
Drop chute fans
Gonna take a little trip,
Mission top secret,
Destination unknown,
We don't know
If we're ever goin' home,
Lay down, strap down,
Float to the chute,
Spit right out,
And shou "Turkey Shoot!"
Pod through the atmosphere,
Burn on down,
I'll be the first one
To hit the ground!
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 09:10:48 +1100
From: Robert Houghton <rhoughto@one.net.au>
Subject: Re: Random thoughts
"Samuel D. Weiss" wrote:
> >(Keep the Freudian jokes to a minimum, OK? As the old man might have said,
> "Sometimes a cannon is just a cannon").<
>
> Yes, but as my corollary says,
> "But the rest of the time it is still a ..."
>
yup...but is it canon?
Other Rob
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 21:52:36 +0000
From: Paul Campbell <kemitix@users.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: Bigger Than Worlds: Alderson Disk (was Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans)
On Tue, Dec 05, 2000 at 11:15:06AM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> In mail you write:
>
> > On Mon, Dec 04, 2000 at 02:53:52PM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> >> Check out Niven's article "Bigger than Worlds". It's appeared in a
> >> couple of his collections, as well as in Analog.
> >>
> >> You can get *much* bigger than that. Alderson Disks, Galactic Dyson
> >> Spheres, Topopolises, etc.
> >>
> >> If you thought Ringworld required unobtanium, just consider what an
> >> Alderson Disk requires. Picture a CD thousands of km thick, and so big
> >> that it has a *star* in the hole. Yeah, it extends from (say) the orbit
> >> of Mercury out past the orbit of Jupiter...
> >
> > Sounds surprisingly similar to Aylse, the Fantasy world that invades
> > Earth in West End Games' TORG. Although Aylse is *MUCH* *MUCH*
> > smaller. The star, however, still bobs from one side to the other,
> > giving day and night.
>
> The problem is that such "bobbing" takes place on a time scale more
> suited to *seasons* (ok, short ones, but still). And the "day" is
> rather odd, at that.
You could get a 'day' effect from vertical pillars, say a dozen or
more, near the core. These would need to rotate around the sun when
it is up/summer, casting a night-like shadows over a segment of the
disk.
But that still leaves long dark winters. How about the vertical
pillars tilting in over the aperture to about 45(deg). The core sides
would be mirrored, thus casting a light through the offset gaps
opposite.
Hmm, not sure if I'm explaining myself too well here...
- --
Paul Campbell (Sourceforge) <kemitix@users.sourceforge.net>
GPG Key fingerprint = 9C4F 31A3 8814 9F94 A533 A979 E63F 0C69 A771 0F24
http://www.kemitix.uklinux.net
jupiter: 9:44pm up 20 days, 11:44, 2 users, load average: 0.02, 0.06, 0.08
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 17:35:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: RE: Eyes
Steve (Bloo) Daniels writes:
<snipped>
>Ob. trav., with humans living for thousands of years
>on planets orbitting stars of different colors, especially
>when perceived through different atmospheres, might
>not many of them adapt and have overlapping areas
>of sensitivity?
This might happen if visual ability influences
the odds of surviving and reproducing. On high
tech worlds probably not, but on "throwback"
worlds there may well be such evolution.
>There is also the issue of Tetrachromacy (the ability
>to see four colors instead of three). Some scientists
>in England believe they may have found two women
>who have this condition. Apparently, the condition
>can't happen in men, because of chromosomal issues.
>Really interesting story on the subject here:
>http://www.redherring.com/mag/issue86/mag-mutant-86.html
<snipped>
The website indicated explains the chromosome
issue very well. It is the same situation that
ensures that calico cats are always female.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 17:44:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: Re: Eyes
Steve (Bloo) Daniels writes:
>Gordon Horne wrote:
>>ObTML: There are a lot of mutants on this list, aren't there 8^)
>Years ago, I recall reading in some technical scientific document,
>like scientific american or something along those line, that only
>about 3% of humans are without mutations.
The "average" human has about five or six brand new
mutations (that is, that their parents did not have). Each
of us also typically inherits about three from each parent,
one or two from each grandparent, etc.
>Though that would
>depend on how you define "mutation". According to
>http://www.graylab.ac.uk/cgi-bin/omd?mutation
>Mutation:
>"A permanent transmissible change in the genetic material, usually
>in a single gene. Also, an individual exhibiting such a change. Also
>called (in classical genetics) a sport."
This is a good definition. Note that it excludes the many
genetic changes that are almost certain to occur while your
cells replicate themselves during growth and development.
That's right, there are genetic differences among the cells
in your body.
>Aha! I smell Grandfather!! Those Droyne Sports are MUTANTS!
>RUN!!!!!!
Why should I listen to you, you're a mutant!
:)
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 17:43:16 -0500
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Random thoughts
>yup...but is it canon?<
Dunno. I told my shrink and he gave me that "how the hell did a layman come
up with something so insightful like that?" chuckle.
Like most of my memetic intrusions I figure it will just take some time to
fully infect the paradigm.
Samwise
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 14:23:35 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: beards
From: Erick ... <siniypiva@hotmail.com>
>>>BTW, is there some rule that we (male) gamers must wear glasses and have
>>> beards?
>
>>Article seven, section three: 1 "Required Appearance"
>
>>>Well, at least Loren has kept far more of his hair than I have ...
>
>>Every one of my male siblings is 100-watt softwhite bald . . .
>
> well than, I suppose I am in violation, as I do not have a beard or
>glasses, not my fault tho, as a young buck I am unable to grow a
respectable
>beard ;Þ
Fake beards & fake glasses will be provided for those under the age of
21. Though, we do make exceptions to those who cannot grow a beard for
medical reasons. Such as when I was going through chemo, I was provided
with a fake beard for the secret meetings.
I bid you peace.
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"
"I don't need Romance. I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
USS Excaliber.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 14:24:53 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Random thoughts
From: Samuel D. Weiss <samwise1@email.msn.com>
>Yes, but as my corollary says,
>"But the rest of the time it is still a ..."
A complete waste of money?
I bid you peace.
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"
"I don't need Romance. I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
USS Excaliber.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 16:00:50 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Black Travel Zones
From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
>> You know a party in a Type A Free Trader is the most dangerous force
in
>>the Universe. Able to survive a Meson Gun Blast, so I don't think they
>>would disappear...
>
>Uh, no actually. I know that for a fact. Several years ago, I was running
>a game with a group that decided to be real jerks, both to me and to
>everyone in the campaign. I had asked them to try and keep to the tone of
>the game, and even offered to switch to AD&D if they really just wanted to
>hack and slash, but they insisted that my Traveller game was way cool, so I
>continued.
>
>Until the day came where, after a ridiculous number of events, they were
>running from an armored cruiser. (I was hoping to run Prison Planet) They
>kept refusing to surrender, and even pot-shotting the IN vessel! The
>Captain was taunting the cruiser's crew over the commo, daring them to do
>their worst.
>
>So I did. Fired the spinal mount at them. After counting up the critical
>hits (using Brilliant Lances) I informed them that they were all dead,
>their ship was near mono-atomic dust, and that I was going to read a book.
>Which I did. For about ten minutes, all I heard was muttering a whispers
>from the kitchen, and then they came and apologized, and asked me to come
>run again. I told them no f**king way, I was sick of having campaigns
>ruined, and somebody else could sit in the hot seat.
Sounds like you had a group of real f*ck*ng jerks for players, Doug.
Personally, I would have handed them over to another GM & let them deal with
it.
>This was the beginning of my Great Exodus from gaming, which culminated in
>my touring with the Grateful Dead for one summer tour. I knew it was time
>to head back when I started evaluating people I was living with as
>potential campaign fodder.
What happened with me, was I started evaluating people as potential
cannon fodder.
That plus I game in a Round-Robin Group for our LUG Trek Games & that
does help out alot on GM Burn-out & the rest of the players have a stake in
keeping the game from getting out of hand.
I bid you peace.
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"
"I don't need Romance. I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
USS Excaliber.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 19:09:53 -0400
From: "D Allain" <dr_polo@hotmail.com>
Subject: looking for R Prior
I'm looking for Rob Prior's e-mail address. He's written a few programs that
my ref wants some info on (if there are updates, registering it...). Any
info on how to contact Rob Prior would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Denis Allain
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 18:13:29 EST
From: CPoppcap@aol.com
Subject: Re: looking for R Prior
speaking of programs any one convert the old apple trading program for modern
use???
Or anything simular???
Charles Popp
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 17:19:48 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Hiding in Plain Sight and Jump Tapes (was Re: Travel Zones)
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> Look up "jump tapes". You'll find that they won't be used by anybody
> with a real astrogator on board. They exist to let folks without a
> decent astrogator get around.
You are correct in the OTU. However, if someone wants to vary things a
little here are some ideas:
Make the relationship between Jump Space and Normal Space something
other than 1 to 1 and let it vary over time. Now it is much harder to
jump from A to B with only normal space sightings. The astrogator will
need sightings made during the first seconds of jump (before the ship is
completely cut off) to adjust its course, jump tapes (or disks)
containing previously recorded data, or both.
You can still make the jump with a skilled astrogator and no tapes, but
it is a harder task and misjumps occur more often. You can also make the
jump with the tapes and no astrogator, but your success is tied to the
quality of the tape...you get what you pay for, and sometimes what your
enemies pay for. ;) With an astrogator *and* current tapes, you have a
much easier task, few misjumps and a chance to detect a "ringer" tape
someone slipped in on you.
As for hiding a system...unless normal space and jump space have very
little correspondence it's not going to be easy, if possible at all.
Best to just have the IISS mark the system as uninteresting: barren
worlds, no water, no gas giant, no reason to go there.
Now, I know an astronomer could detect a gas giant from system A to B,
but would an astronomer be *looking* for a gas giant in a near by system
in 1105? The survey has been done, and redone. Charts have been made
and updated and confirmed by the Scout Service. IAC, if some astronomer
*did* look at system B and see a gas giant who would she tell...the
local Scout Office, the Chairman of her department? And what if they
told her to drop it, politely but firmly, would she? Or if they
explained to her why there was no gas giant there, might she drop the
subject then? Might she try to arrange for the PC's ship to *take* her
there so she could get "proof?" Would the PC's be willing to jump into
a barren system? What sort of reception might they receive when they
arrived? <g>
Eris
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 15:22:18 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: looking for R Prior
Here ya' go!
Robert Prior [robert_prior@sympatico.ca]
Best,
Jesse
"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of D Allain
> Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 3:10 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: looking for R Prior
>
>
> I'm looking for Rob Prior's e-mail address. He's written a few
> programs that
> my ref wants some info on (if there are updates, registering it...). Any
> info on how to contact Rob Prior would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Denis Allain
> __________________________________________________________________
> ___________________
> Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 00:27:47 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Eyes
Gordon Horne wrote:
> ObTML: There are a lot of mutants on this list, aren't there 8^)
Well, I might be one of them:
I can kick my left shoulder with my right heel while standing.
I can move my smallest finger (oposite to the thumb, I don't know the
proper English word) independently of the others.
My tounge (spl?) is a few centimeters longer than most people's, making
it possible for me to lick the tip of my nose or stick my tounge into my
throat.
Do I qualify as a mutant? ;-)
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 17:27:03 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Travel Zones
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> >> > How are you going to hide the star?
> > Maybe a Dyson sphere with inner mirror coating. B-)
> > (No, it wouldnt work. There is always some fraction of absorbed
> > radiation, and it would add up and warm the spere.)
> More to the point, the reflected radiation would increase the temp of
> the star (and of anything else inside the sphere. In a fairly short
> time, the star would explode.
You'd have to allow the radiation to...radiate. <g> However, wouldn't
the heat that is radiated be less observable over interstellar
distances? And a pretty strange spectrometer reading you'd get too, I
bet.
Eris
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 23:30 +0000 (GMT)
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
Subject: Re: Random thoughts
In-Reply-To: <00a401c05ef3$490804a0$0500a8c0@Pronto>
Greetings dear hearts.
I am another one with good night vision - to the extent people say that if
there is even one star in the sky I can see fine.
Came in handy with a baby... no stumbling about when giving
middle-of-the-night feeds :-)
And of course extremely useful in the military and live-role-play (so much
easier playing an elf in a fantasy game when you really DO have
infravision!)
Hugs and kisses,
Mexal.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 15:33:39 -0800
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: RE: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
Anthony Jackson wrote:
> > Another problem with Striker is that infantry are basically useless at
> > higher TLs; they are sadly lacking any weapons which can damage even
> > moderately-armored vehicles. The closest they come are the man-portble
> > energy weapons, which are still much too small to put a dent in armor.
>
> You may have to accept that infantry are not useful in conflict
> in any form
> of open terrain. This is not obviously unreasonable. I suspect that in
> cityfighting they should still have a reasonable chance of killing tanks,
> because ranges may be short enough to make point defense
> minimally effective.
The problem is that there just aren't any infantry weapons that can damage
high-TL armored vehicles, at least not with the vehicle and weapon design
system of Striker. High-TL armor is pretty good. High-TL CPR rounds can't
penetrate it. It even takes a fairly big energy weapon to do it. Much bigger
that an infantryman can carry.
The easy way to solve this problem is to have a weapon which _can_ damage
tanks. That's why I launched into the collapsing round tangent.
I would love to hear other solutions to this problem, in particular, ones
which you could easily use within a convention game setting.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 17:44:22 -0600
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: "Shadows" and the Hhkar
Robert Gilson wrote:
>
> Paul Drye wrote:
>
> > After much digging in a back room, through boxes that haven't been unpacked
> > for the last two moves, I finally found the documents that led me to think
> > there was a connection between "Shadows" and the Hhkar. After blowing the
> > dust off them, I sat down and read it closely for clues.
>
> The big problem with combining Shadows with the Hhkar is that the world the Shadows
> takes place on has a fluorine atmosphere, were the Hhkar like their atmosphere tainted
> with
> sulfur.
No problem. Sulfur difluoride. ;-)
(CHEM 101 final exam tomorrow.)
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 17:43:55 -0600
From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" <sdaniels@playnet.com>
Subject: Re: Random thoughts
Megan Robertson wrote:
> And of course extremely useful in the military and live-role-play (so much
> easier playing an elf in a fantasy game when you really DO have
> infravision!)
Except that infravision is based on heat and is supposed to
work in the absence of *any* visible light. IIRC, one of the
old D&D books had ultra-vision (low intensification), and
elves had that, too.
Not that you'd need so much in a fantasy setting that is
absent intense light and atmospheric pollution.
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 17:53:35 -0600
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
>
> At 04:55 PM 12/2/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>
> >> They will show up again, in a few years, Doug, but then they will go
> >>back in time to fight a major war.
> >
> >Along with the Penguin Not Born of Penguin.
>
> It is by herring alone I set my penguin in motion.
> It is by the oil of skate that flippers acquire speed,
> the beak acquires fish.
> The fish become a dinner.
> It is by herring alone I set my penguin in motion.
Does this mean we'll have to call you "Ol' Blue Eyes"? ;-)
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 16:17:16 -0800
From: Gordon Horne <gordon.horne@home.com>
Subject: Re: Eyes
>Gordon Horne wrote:
>> ObTML: There are a lot of mutants on this list, aren't there 8^)
>
>Well, I might be one of them:
>
>I can kick my left shoulder with my right heel while standing.
>
>I can move my smallest finger (oposite to the thumb, I don't know the
>proper English word) independently of the others.
>
>My tounge (spl?) is a few centimeters longer than most people's, making
>it possible for me to lick the tip of my nose or stick my tounge into my
>throat.
>
>Do I qualify as a mutant? ;-)
>
Either that or a frog on a deep cover assignment.
g
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 18:23:08 -0600
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Shared Kill (was Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans)
"Kelly St.Clair" wrote:
>
> On Mon, 4 Dec 2000 15:25:32 -0500 (EST), "William 'Commander X' Prankard"
> <cmdrx@ao.net> wrote:
>
> >SCHPEEEEEEEEEWWWWW!!!!!!
> >
> >Another keyboard kill. Congrats.
>
> How do we determine credit for this one, though?
Simple. The TMLer who posted the comment _directly_ resulting in the
kill gets full credit. No partial or shared kills on this list (at
least not under my scoring).
Having reviewed the kill (and its thread) in question, I award the kill
to Kelly St. Clair.
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 18:49:06 -0600
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Deckplans for the big stuff
GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:
>
<<snip>>
> Other useful/neat plans for the wish list: The arcology ship from Silent
> Running, a "Garden" from Final Fantasy 8, the Yamato/Argo, the Sol Bianca,
> the Bebop (from Cowboy Bebop; if you have not seen this anime, do so), the
> Star Leaf (from Gall Force) and its various subsystems, a Kazon Clanship, the
> three human ships from Titan A.E., any Eldar destroyer from Battlefleet
> Gothic, and the whole ragtag fleet following the Galactica...
I'm surprised that nobody has yet mentioned the Ecological Engineering
Corps' seedship _Ark_, currently captained (and crewed) by one Haviland
Tuf, assisted by various cats. (_Ark_ is 30 kilometers long.)
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 11:57:04 +1000
From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au
Subject: Re: Travel Zones
On Sun, 3 Dec 2000
shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
(responding to another poster) wrote:
<Begin quote>
>In mail you write:
>
> 2) Does anybody actualy use the Black Travel from some old issue of
> White Wolf magazine (I think). It was a completely forbidden system
> that was not even supposed to be placed on official starmaps due to
> matters of Imperial Security.
<sigh>
Sorry, but that's not *possible* anywhere in "known space" except maybe
Dark Nebula sector.
With space based observatories, or even a decent telescope on a ship,
you can see even dim stars for many parsecs. And observations from
several hexes will pin down the location of any stars within jump range
quite easily.
So all that leaving a star off an official map will do is tell anybody
with a telescope that you are trying to hide something. It'll actually
*call attention* to the star.
<end quote>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
This reminds me of a game I ran a LOOONG time ago, which had a star that
didn't appear on any star maps, because it couldn't be seen.
The party were hired by an astronomer to investigate a gravitational
anomaly in an 'empty' hex. He was looking for black holes, and thought
he had discovered one nearby. There was no star visible in the
hex, and no radiation to speak of to suggest there was a event horizon.
Yet there seemed to be a star-like mass that he had detected through
subtle distortions in the star-field. That led him to believe he had
found not only a black hole, but that holy grail - a naked singularity.
The patron hired the party's ship for a jump there and back to confirm
his suspicions and take some readings.
The ship dropped out of jumpspace in the target 'system' but didn't
find a black hole. Instead they found a Dyson sphere surrounding the
sun - and it was black. VERY black.
It wasn't emitting enough black body radiation for something that was
absorbing the total energy output from the sun; which was why it could
not be seen optically from any nearby system. Even starlight
reflecting off the surface was strangely -diminished-. Something was
absorbing the energy and messing with the laws of thermodynamics.
It was one of Grandfather's artifacts, and only possible with TL25+
handwaves. Unfortunately the group never found out how it worked
or why it was there, before breaking up.
I've toyed with the idea of using it again if I ever run another game,
so I won't explain further.
(PS It -wasn't- a big black globe generator)
Graeme
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------------------------------
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3362
Date: | 12/6/00 1:30:09 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Wednesday, December 6 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3362
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Red Dwarf
Re: Eyes
The Long Way Home
re: looking for R Prior
Re: Striker Artillery
Jodies and assorted other cadences
re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
RE: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
Re: Owl Con
RE: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
Digressing to Mongo (was RE: Striker Artillery)
Sensor Technology
Re: beards
Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans
Re: Jodies and assorted other cadences
Re: Bigger Than Worlds: Alderson Disk (was Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans)
Re: Eyes
Re: Eyes
Re: Eyes
Re: Beard/glasses
Re: Hiding in Plain Sight and Jump Tapes (was Re: Travel Zones)
Re: Travel Zones
Re: Deckplans for the big stuff
Re: Travel Zones
Re: Red Dwarf
RE: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 19:14:50 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Red Dwarf
> > Rimmer is the hologram (for most seasons). I could probably tolerate
Lister
> > just slightly more than Rimmer.
> >
>
> How about Cat? I couldn't tolerate him...
What? The Cat's a *HOOT*! You'd never get bored!
> Nor Kryten, for that matter.
Agreed.
BTW, since there are a few guys from the UK:
One thing about this show's been bugging me. The last non-rerun episode I
saw ended up with Rimmer as the sole survivor on the ship, which was quickly
decaying into nothing. How'd that turn out?
- -J. Jensen
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 17:19:02 -0800
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com>
Subject: Re: Eyes
>From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
>Subject: Re: Eyes
>
>Gordon Horne wrote:
>> ObTML: There are a lot of mutants on this list, aren't there 8^)
>
>Well, I might be one of them:
>
>I can kick my left shoulder with my right heel while standing.
>
>I can move my smallest finger (oposite to the thumb, I don't know the
>proper English word) independently of the others.
>
>My tounge (spl?) is a few centimeters longer than most people's, making
>it possible for me to lick the tip of my nose or stick my tounge into my
>throat.
>
>Do I qualify as a mutant? ;-)
You would certainly qualify for a date in certain circles....I
wonder what evolutionary advantage there would be for a man who could
french-kiss himself?
<g,d,r>
Rod Basler, COFIT
- -----------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer - It's not their fault, OK?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 19:20:39 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: The Long Way Home
Has anyone tried running a Traveller campaign using a jump drive like the
superdrive in Poul Anderson's "The Long Way Home"? How'd it turn out?
A curious fan,
James Jensen
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 01:21:02 +0000
From: Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: looking for R Prior
At 20:03 -0500 5/12/00, "D Allain" <dr_polo@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I'm looking for Rob Prior's e-mail address. He's written a few programs that
>my ref wants some info on (if there are updates, registering it...). Any
>info on how to contact Rob Prior would be appreciated.
His shareware for Traveller may be downloaded from the products page at BITS
http://www.bits.org.uk
Registration/contact details are in the 'About ' menu option. All
programmes are fully functional demos bar save and print being
disabled.
Several of his non-shareware programmes may be found at:
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/
Contact me off list regarding Rob's email address.
Dom (BITS webmaster)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 17:34:31 -0800
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
Subject: Re: Striker Artillery
"Glenn M. Goffin" wrote:
> > Surely you mean "for modifying mechanisms on Mongo"?
>
> Maybe: refereeing rules related to mundane Mongon mechanism modifications.
I see Glenn is showing off his high station in Mongo society. :-)
Kristian
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 20:13:56 -0600
From: "Shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net>
Subject: Jodies and assorted other cadences
Just think of the DI's in basic
can you imagine trying to keep non human troops in step?
"Your left...your left "No not THAT Left, your OTHER LEFT"
"All Eyestalks and sensory organs front and center"
Hiver DI's anybody?
KP could count as hazardous duty
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 18:15:01 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
>Subject: re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
...
>> You need to shrink damper boxes tremendously - a minimum size of
>>100kg is problematic for "classic" BD (although maybe not for G:T),
>>but Striker uses _1,000_ kg as the minimum - and scaling indicates
>>that smaller means much lesser efficiency (S3, p.39).
...
>The basic size for a 2cm high-velocity CPR gun in Striker is 100kg. A
>soldier in battle dress is encumbered if he carries 100 to 200kg. I think
>that the weapon can be designed.
No question of that - but _should_ it be designed? :>
>I have not looked at the damper box rule; it could torpedo the whole idea.
What's the half-lives on those materials? Maybe the damper box could be
in the PC?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 18:18:52 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: RE: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
>From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
>Subject: RE: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
...
>Doh. I guess that we're stuck with adding a grav generator to the damper box
>also. Add enough grav power and even a damper box gets manageable. Add even
You still need to shrink the "minimum" size - 1+ tons at MCr ~1 is a
lot for anything less than a vehicle :>
>more grav generators and the complete Advanced Squad Leader rules get
>manageable.
Now _that's_ SF!
...
>> But battle-dress could allow a 20mm to fire as a high-recoil weapon
>> (i.e., stationary only)?
>
>Why not just assume that the grav generators make the recoil acceptable also?
That makes it TL E, and adds another KCr 50+ to the package :(
...
>> Why not just 0.1 kt (or smaller?) nukes in small tac missiles - a ground-
>> hugging target will give a tertiary (massive collateral damage to civilian
>> victims) blast radius of only 200 meters if it goes off.
>
>But you need to detonate these away from the target, otherwise the PD
>weapons take them out. I don't remember if it's 10 cm away or 15 cm away.
Why not look into a single-shot missile (well, rocket) with approach
velocities in the CPR gun categories, and put the nuke in that?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 21:18:53 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Owl Con
Brandon Cope said:
> >FYI, I'll be a guest at OwlCon in Houston TX, Jan 19-21 2001 -- Anyone
> >within jump 1 is encouraged to show up and convince the con organizers
they
> >have chosen their guest wisely. For more details, go to:
> >
> >http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~owlcon/
> >
>
> Ooh, I'm close enough to this con ...
>
> You going to be there every day of the con?
Far as I know . . .
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 19:14:09 -0800
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: RE: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
Steven Hudson wrote:
> >> But battle-dress could allow a 20mm to fire as a high-recoil weapon
> >> (i.e., stationary only)?
> >
> >Why not just assume that the grav generators make the recoil
> acceptable also?
>
> That makes it TL E, and adds another KCr 50+ to the package :(
>
> ...
> >> Why not just 0.1 kt (or smaller?) nukes in small tac
> missiles - a ground-
> >> hugging target will give a tertiary (massive collateral damage
> to civilian
> >> victims) blast radius of only 200 meters if it goes off.
> >
> >But you need to detonate these away from the target, otherwise the PD
> >weapons take them out. I don't remember if it's 10 cm away or 15 cm away.
>
> Why not look into a single-shot missile (well, rocket) with approach
> velocities in the CPR gun categories, and put the nuke in that?
Can this type of design stuff be done with FF&S? I have never looked at the
MT stuff seriously, but if you can actually design vehicles compatible with
Striker with it, it might be worth it. I think that both FF&S and FF&S2 are
in a box in my garage somewhere, but I have never had a good reason to get
them out.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 19:14:11 -0800
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: Digressing to Mongo (was RE: Striker Artillery)
Kristian Miller wrote:
> > > Surely you mean "for modifying mechanisms on Mongo"?
> >
> > Maybe: refereeing rules related to mundane Mongon mechanism
> modifications.
>
> I see Glenn is showing off his high station in Mongo society. :-)
He is the Ambassador to Mongo, isn't he? Or is it Ambassador from Mongo? Or
is it General Counsel to Ming? He's got business cards somewhere, I think.
In light of the recent increased level of understanding of Mongoo society,
he may have to get new business cards printed.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 22:02:41 -0600
From: Charles R Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net>
Subject: Sensor Technology
John Fox wrote:
> Does anyone have a primer on space sensors?
> Is there a website that I can read that will give me the basics for
sensor
>tech?
> Is there a write up that is not too out of date that give stuff like
>resolution, scan time, power needs, problems sensors have, limitations
etc?
Check out my site
http://home1.gte.net/res04u7k/Traveller/hrules.html
"Bruce Alan Macintosh's Definitive Sensor Rules"
Rules writen for T4/4.1
best source for sensor information other than Bruce himself
Charles H
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 20:26:51
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: beards
At 08:49 PM 12/5/2000 -0000, you wrote:
> well than, I suppose I am in violation, as I do not have a beard or
>glasses, not my fault tho, as a young buck I am unable to grow a respectable
>beard ;Þ
Instant solution: Join the Army.
Before I showed up for OSUT, I could raise a whisker to save my life.
Three days in, I had to shave twice a day.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 20:41:25
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans
At 05:53 PM 12/5/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
>> It is by herring alone I set my penguin in motion.
>> It is by the oil of skate that flippers acquire speed,
>> the beak acquires fish.
>> The fish become a dinner.
>> It is by herring alone I set my penguin in motion.
>
>Does this mean we'll have to call you "Ol' Blue Eyes"? ;-)
Crystal Gayle Killed Frank Herbert
http://www.tomsmithonline.com/lyrics/crystalgayle.htm
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 20:46:49
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Jodies and assorted other cadences
At 08:13 PM 12/5/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>Just think of the DI's in basic
>can you imagine trying to keep non human troops in step?
>"Your left...your left "No not THAT Left, your OTHER LEFT"
>"All Eyestalks and sensory organs front and center"
>Hiver DI's anybody?
Hmm.. posting a number of filk links this evening..
http://www.duntemann.com/marines.htm
>KP could count as hazardous duty
It isn't already?
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 20:04:12 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Bigger Than Worlds: Alderson Disk (was Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans)
In mail you write:
>>Note that the inner rim is a good place for "fire giants", red Dragons
>>and other heat loving critters (lakes of molten lead, anyone?). And the
>>outer rim is great for "frost giants" and their friends (lakes of
>>liquid ammonia?). It gets even better if you extend it out to 10 AU or
>>even 30 AU... And in the FRP, you don't need to explain why the sun is
>>always on the horizon and the stars don't move in the sky.
>
> You'd need a really good horse to get from 0.4 AU to 4+ AU in a
> reasonable time. 8^)
Actually, even ignoring things like mountain ranges, oceans, and the
like, I doubt you *could* trval by horse over much more than say .7 AU
to 1.5 AU due to temperature diffs.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 20:06:25 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Eyes
In mail you write:
> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> In mail you write:
>>>
>>> IIRC, a dark-adapted human eye is 100,000 times more
>>> sensitive to light than at it is when the sun is at high noon.
>>
>> Well, I don't know about *that*, but I do know that some folks eyes
>> respond *very* differently to changes in brightness.
>
> I'll bet your eyes are blue? Iris color and sensitivity are related.
> Brown eyes least, blue most.
Nope. Brown. But then again, I never claimed to be human. :-)
> Ob. trav., with humans living for thousands of years
> on planets orbitting stars of different colors, especially
> when perceived through different atmospheres, might
> not many of them adapt and have overlapping areas
> of sensitivity?
It'd take a *lot* longer than that, barring some *severe* mutation
rates and selection pressures.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 20:08:54 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Eyes
In mail you write:
>>There is also the issue of Tetrachromacy (the ability
>>to see four colors instead of three). Some scientists
>>in England believe they may have found two women
>>who have this condition. Apparently, the condition
>>can't happen in men, because of chromosomal issues.
>
> I happen to have significantly different colour sensitivity in either
> eye. On one of those colour dot diagrams used to test for colour
> blindness i could see both numbers clearly. Can't remember which
> diagram, though. Some neat tricks are possible when you can tell
> which eye is receiving which part of the image. I'm quite good at
> spotting camouflaged things as the level of blending is rarely the
> same in both eyes.
>
> ObTML: There are a lot of mutants on this list, aren't there 8^)
All mutants will please report to Security for processing.
Praise the Computer!
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 20:10:41 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Eyes
In mail you write:
> Gordon Horne wrote:
>> ObTML: There are a lot of mutants on this list, aren't there 8^)
>
> Well, I might be one of them:
>
> I can kick my left shoulder with my right heel while standing.
>
> I can move my smallest finger (oposite to the thumb, I don't know the
> proper English word) independently of the others.
"Little finger".
And neither of those is indicative of a mutation, merely better than
average flexibility. I can do the bit with the finger, but not with the
heel.
> My tounge (spl?) is a few centimeters longer than most people's, making
> it possible for me to lick the tip of my nose or stick my tounge into my
> throat.
That may be a mutation. It's also reputed to be a great way to get
dates (c.f. an old joke about "...licking his eybrows".
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 20:13:37 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Beard/glasses
In mail you write:
> On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, Mark Preston wrote:
>
>> Lets' see ... beard? Yup. Glasses? Yup. Bald? Yup (well - getting that
>> way). Overweight? Ah ha! I _knew_ that I wasn't an average Trav.
>> player!!
>
> I'm overweight, but my vision is OK. But for some reason I seem to be
> missing the beard.....
Well, being female, the beard is only required if you are a dwarf. :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 21:45:40 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Hiding in Plain Sight and Jump Tapes (was Re: Travel Zones)
In mail you write:
> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> Look up "jump tapes". You'll find that they won't be used by anybody
>> with a real astrogator on board. They exist to let folks without a
>> decent astrogator get around.
>
> You are correct in the OTU. However, if someone wants to vary things a
> little here are some ideas:
>
> Make the relationship between Jump Space and Normal Space something
> other than 1 to 1 and let it vary over time. Now it is much harder to
> jump from A to B with only normal space sightings. The astrogator will
> need sightings made during the first seconds of jump (before the ship is
> completely cut off) to adjust its course, jump tapes (or disks)
> containing previously recorded data, or both.
>
> You can still make the jump with a skilled astrogator and no tapes, but
> it is a harder task and misjumps occur more often. You can also make the
> jump with the tapes and no astrogator, but your success is tied to the
> quality of the tape...you get what you pay for, and sometimes what your
> enemies pay for. ;) With an astrogator *and* current tapes, you have a
> much easier task, few misjumps and a chance to detect a "ringer" tape
> someone slipped in on you.
Since they've justed reprinted it, let me suggest you read Andre
Norton's "Galactic Derelict" (the reprint is he second half on the new
hardcover of "Time Traders" from Baen Books).
An interesting take on "jump tapes". :-)
> Now, I know an astronomer could detect a gas giant from system A to B,
> but would an astronomer be *looking* for a gas giant in a near by system
> in 1105? The survey has been done, and redone. Charts have been made
> and updated and confirmed by the Scout Service. IAC, if some astronomer
> *did* look at system B and see a gas giant who would she tell...the
> local Scout Office, the Chairman of her department? And what if they
> told her to drop it, politely but firmly, would she? Or if they
> explained to her why there was no gas giant there, might she drop the
> subject then? Might she try to arrange for the PC's ship to *take* her
> there so she could get "proof?" Would the PC's be willing to jump into
> a barren system? What sort of reception might they receive when they
> arrived? <g>
Well, astronomers, both professional and amateur, *do* "resurvey"
systems. Usually to test or calibrate new equipment.
As I recall, that's how the white dwarf orbiting Sirius was discovered.
A pro was checking out a new telescope mirror and at first he was
royally POed because he thought the tiny dot of light was a flaw in the
mirror.
And note that Sirius *is* a nearby star.
Also, stars get surveyed for various reasons such as collecting
statistical data on various types of stars for use in developing or
confirming theories.
As for the rest of your scenario, ask Bruce. He's a *real* astronomer. :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 21:53:08 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Travel Zones
In mail you write:
> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> >> > How are you going to hide the star?
>
>> > Maybe a Dyson sphere with inner mirror coating. B-)
>> > (No, it wouldnt work. There is always some fraction of absorbed
>> > radiation, and it would add up and warm the spere.)
>
>> More to the point, the reflected radiation would increase the temp of
>> the star (and of anything else inside the sphere. In a fairly short
>> time, the star would explode.
>
> You'd have to allow the radiation to...radiate. <g> However, wouldn't
> the heat that is radiated be less observable over interstellar
> distances? And a pretty strange spectrometer reading you'd get too, I
> bet.
Not with IR telescopes out there. *Especially* since they'd be using
them to try to find things like brown dwarfs.
An "infrared giant" like a Dyson Sphere would be more than a little
noticable to any IR sky surveys.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 21:59:49 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Deckplans for the big stuff
In mail you write:
> GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:
>>
> <<snip>>
>
>> Other useful/neat plans for the wish list: The arcology ship from Silent
>> Running,
BTW, you *are* aware that almost all the interior scenes were shot in
the USS Valley Forge, a mothballed aircraft carrier? So you can just
grab large sections of the plans for it.
>> a "Garden" from Final Fantasy 8, the Yamato/Argo, the Sol Bianca,
>> the Bebop (from Cowboy Bebop; if you have not seen this anime, do so), the
>> Star Leaf (from Gall Force) and its various subsystems,
Don't recognize any of these.
> I'm surprised that nobody has yet mentioned the Ecological Engineering
> Corps' seedship _Ark_, currently captained (and crewed) by one Haviland
> Tuf, assisted by various cats. (_Ark_ is 30 kilometers long.)
There are some things *nobody* wants in their TU. :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 10:44:57 +0200 (EET)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: Re: Travel Zones
On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, Eris Reddoch wrote:
> Leonard Erickson wrote:
> > >> > How are you going to hide the star?
> > > Maybe a Dyson sphere with inner mirror coating. B-)
> > > (No, it wouldnt work. There is always some fraction of absorbed
> > > radiation, and it would add up and warm the spere.)
> > More to the point, the reflected radiation would increase the temp of
> > the star (and of anything else inside the sphere. In a fairly short
> > time, the star would explode.
> You'd have to allow the radiation to...radiate. <g> However, wouldn't
> the heat that is radiated be less observable over interstellar
> distances? And a pretty strange spectrometer reading you'd get too, I
> bet.
Dyson spheres would probably be infrared.
There are some searches for anomalous IR sources in the sky. One of the
reasons is just Dyson spheres. B-)
- --
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 08:56:01 +0000
From: Rob Myers <robm@onetel.net.uk>
Subject: Re: Red Dwarf
We won't find out until after the film with Madonna in it is released...
- - Rob.
On Wednesday, December 6, 2000, at 01:14 AM, James Jensen wrote:
> One thing about this show's been bugging me. The last non-rerun episode I
> saw ended up with Rimmer as the sole survivor on the ship, which was quickly
> decaying into nothing. How'd that turn out?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 09:29:57 -0000
From: Matt Bond <MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dominic Mooney [mailto:dom@cybergoths.u-net.com]
> Sent: 30 November 2000 22:31
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: [GT] /Beowulf/ deckplans described
>
>
> At 15:49 -0500 30/11/00, bruce johnson
> <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:
> > > BTW, is there some rule that we (male) gamers must wear
> glasses and have
> > > beards? Well, at least Loren has kept far more of his
> hair than I have ...
> >
> >Yeah, verily Brother! It is graven upon the Traveller Cult rules #14a
> >subsection b para 2 under 'Appearance, Facial, Male thereof' ;-)
>
> Oh Dear.
>
> I suppose that means that Andy and I had better pack BITS up now, or
> grow beards. Maybe Matt could take it over...
>
>
> Dom
>
> (JOKING! But we don't have beards ;-) )
Awwwww...
Still, I am supremely qualified for gaming... 22 stone (308 lb in the
US), longish hair, full beard, glasses...
Matt
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3362
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3363
Date: | 12/6/00 1:01:32 PM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, December 6 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3363
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
Re: The Long Way Home
Re: Jodies and assorted other cadences
Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
RE: Eyes
RE: Beard/glasses
RE: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
RE: Beard/glasses
Re: Travel Zones
Re: Eyes
Re: Eyes
MUTANTS! AIEEE! (was Re: Eyes)
RE: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
Re: Striker Artillery
re: Digressing to Mongo (was RE: Striker Artillery)
Re: MUTANTS! AIEEE! (was Re: Eyes)
Re: MUTANTS! AIEEE! (was Re: Eyes)
Re: Eyes
Re: beards
Re: The Long Way Home (light speed jumps)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 02:48:38 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
In mail you write:
> Why not look into a single-shot missile (well, rocket) with approach
> velocities in the CPR gun categories, and put the nuke in that?
Because rockets need time and space to reach those sorts of velocities.
The higher the accel, the less time and space, but the more expensive
the rocket gets.
Basicly, any rocket that can do that in a decently short range will
cost a lot more (and *bulk* a lot more!) ythan the equivalent CPR round.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 02:51:23 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: The Long Way Home
In mail you write:
> Has anyone tried running a Traveller campaign using a jump drive like the
> superdrive in Poul Anderson's "The Long Way Home"? How'd it turn out?
That's *evil*...
For those who haven't read it, the story starts out with the first
interstellar ship returning to Earth. The drive had problems with not
being well aimable, and it'd taken them a lot of time (and a lot of
jumps covering a lot of distance) to figure out how to "aim" it (with
the help of an alien species they stumble across)
When they return, they make a rather horrid discovery. The drive
*isn't* FTL. It's just instantaneous FOR THOSE ON THE SHIP. A 4 light
year "jump" takes 4 years...
They'd covered several hundred (or was it thousand?) light years.
For something even meaner, there's the idea I dropped into a discussion
pn astrogation in the "lost starship" sense once and which wound up as
a tagline in a friends messages for a while.
A drive with unlimited range, but which (at least until you figure out
how to "calibrate" it) has an equal chance of dropping you *anywhere*
in the universe that will result in your having the same potential
energy (thus avoiding stars *and* most intergalactic voids).
As I commented:
"First you find the right supercluster..."
<eg>
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 02:59:35 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Jodies and assorted other cadences
In mail you write:
> Just think of the DI's in basic
> can you imagine trying to keep non human troops in step?
> "Your left...your left "No not THAT Left, your OTHER LEFT"
> "All Eyestalks and sensory organs front and center"
> Hiver DI's anybody?
It's covered in the last "verse" of the old filk "The Outer Space
Marines"...
(note: the below works best with a pause between each line)
Spoken (drill sgt):
All right now, Forrr-_waad_!
Hup-2,-3,-4,-5,-6,-hold it!
Hup-2-3-many, Stop!
Wait a minute, um, ... evens, odds, evens, odds, _no_!
Hop-skip-jump ... _halt_!
Left-center-right, left-center-right...
I recall signing it in one filk circle that included a former DI would
did this part *beautifully* and brought down the house in the process. :-)
> KP could count as hazardous duty
It doesn't already?
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 06:47:40 -0600
From: "Shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
Thanks Doug, I was about to dig out my copy of the NESFA
Hymnal and post the lyrics to that one.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 08:53:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: RE: Eyes
Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm writes:
>Gordon Horne wrote:
>> ObTML: There are a lot of mutants on this list, aren't there 8^)
>Well, I might be one of them:
>I can kick my left shoulder with my right heel while standing.
>I can move my smallest finger (oposite to the thumb, I don't know the
>proper English word) independently of the others.
>My tounge (spl?) is a few centimeters longer than most people's, making
>it possible for me to lick the tip of my nose or stick my tounge into my
>throat.
>Do I qualify as a mutant? ;-)
Every trait that anyone has is the result of a mutation at some
point, but it is possible to have unusual traits merely as the
result of inheriting an unusual combination of genes. As a
very simple example, about one in twenty people in North
America carry the gene for cystic fibrosis. If both parents are
carriers, there is a 25% chance that each child conceived will
suffer from the disease. Although occasional mutations may
result in new cystic fibrosis genes, virtually all cases are the
result of inheritance from carriers. The situation can be more
complex when more than one gene is involved, and many traits
are probably influenced by a large number of genes.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 11:02:51 -0500 (EST)
From: "William 'Commander X' Prankard" <cmdrx@ao.net>
Subject: RE: Beard/glasses
Checking the checklist for Traveller players...
Beard - Full. I can't keep the thing from growing. I get 5 o'clock
shadow at 10:30am. So I don't bother shaving. (But I do trim the thing,
otherwise people start calling me Rabbi!)
Glasses - Yep, been myopic since elementary school and the thought of
contacts (or putting anthing on my eyeball) disturbs me justabit. Mind
you if I had the money I'd get the surgery.
Heavyset - Yes. Although I kinda like the word my wife uses to describe
me... FLUFFY! ;-)
Bald - Not yet, but that hairline seems to be retreating fast. (Prolly
from the amassed forces on my face!)
Hmmm... nearly 4/4. Does this mean I'm a hard core Traveller player?
\\ // Commander X
\\ // CEO X-TEK Industries of Deneb, LIC
T E K Starship Contractor & High Energy Weapons Research
// \\ http://www.ao.net/~cmdrx/xtek
// \\ 0608 D557777-A kk- va+ so+ zh+ da+ A723
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 08:17:29 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: RE: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
>From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
>Subject: RE: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
...
>> Why not look into a single-shot missile (well, rocket) with approach
>> velocities in the CPR gun categories, and put the nuke in that?
>
>Can this type of design stuff be done with FF&S? I have never looked at the
>MT stuff seriously, but if you can actually design vehicles compatible with
>Striker with it, it might be worth it. I think that both FF&S and FF&S2 are
>in a box in my garage somewhere, but I have never had a good reason to get
>them out.
I don't know off-hand, but if one's going to fiddle designs, at least
we know it's very close to practical (well, the guys lugging it might
disagree...).
MT components can be dropped into Striker (AFAIK), but the MT vehicle
design sequence is useless, as they abstract vehicle shape/aspect, which
Striker does not do. A compromise would be nice...
A shame, as it makes "101 Vehicles" not worth keeping, IMHO.
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 08:04:22
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
At 06:47 AM 12/6/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>Thanks Doug, I was about to dig out my copy of the NESFA
>Hymnal and post the lyrics to that one.
I had "Outer Space Marines" follow-up my finiest moment as a filker.
This one woman had just played "The Green Fields of Flanders" and
dedicating it to all the soldiers who died "for no reason - ever." This,
and other encounters with this person, who can send me from my usual
slightly liberal stance into right-of-Attila reactionary in three
picoseconds, provoked the following song from me:
Willie McBride's Reply by Dick Eney
music: The Green Fields of Flanders
Well, how d'ye do, Mister Folksinger, sir?
You're as much of a twit as your forerunners were!
Sure, this isn't the way that a corpse should behave,
But your twaddle is making me turn in my grave!
You say we were fools, duped by leaders who lied
Yet you're wandering free through this fair countryside --
If it weren't for the dead that you won't even bless
You'd be hiding out now from the Waffen-SS!
(Chorus)
Did you preen yourself proudly?
Did you speak your piece loudly?
Did the slogans roll trippingly off of your tongue?
Were the words that you sang condescending
While you swore that your grief was heartrending?
We called it a price that we just couldn't pay
Defending small countries a long ways away
It was not till our friends were struck down at our side
That we stood and we fought and a lot of us died.
But we gave you a peace half a century long
Though nobody would know it from hearing your song
I know your excuses, you've got quite a store --
I just wish that we hadn't used them before.
(Chorus)
Must I really believe that you're missing the clues
As you watch CNN for the evening news?
When you think of the victims that you wouldn't save
Does it make you feel better to piss on my grave?
But as for appeasement and why it is wrong
You'll be learning yourself before too very long
For you're letting it happen again and again
And again and again and again and again!
(Chorus)
After I finsihed, Jordin Kare imediatly started "OSM" as the woman I had
sung the song towards left the room at .9c, or at least she redshifted that
much. I did the drill and ceremony bit at the end.
Rule of Filking #315: Never sign "Flanders" in a room filled with veterns
and nuclear weapons designers.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 16:26:57 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Beard/glasses
William 'Commander X' Prankard wrote:
> Glasses - Yep, been myopic since elementary school and the
> thought of contacts (or putting anthing on my eyeball) disturbs
> me justabit. Mind you if I had the money I'd get the surgery.
I know what you mean about contacts, but be careful about laser
surgery. Some people (5% or something) develop a "lens flare"-
like phenomenon afterwards that seriously impacts their night
vision. Such people find night driving impossible. (Imagine
driving in traffic at night when every street lamp, every car
headlight, every car indicator light, and any other lights
around ... all have *heavy* lens flare like a really badly done
cgi picture!)
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 10:01:01 -0700
From: Cliff Linehan <clinehan@sfamipec.com>
Subject: Re: Travel Zones
> Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 11:57:04 +1000 From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au
>This reminds me of a game I ran a LOOONG time ago, which had a star
that
>didn't appear on any star maps, because it couldn't be seen.
>
>The party were hired by an astronomer to investigate a
gravitational
>anomaly in an 'empty' hex. He was looking for black holes, and
thought
>he had discovered one nearby. There was no star visible in the
>hex, and no radiation to speak of to suggest there was a event
horizon.
>
>Yet there seemed to be a star-like mass that he had detected
through
>subtle distortions in the star-field. That led him to believe he
had
>found not only a black hole, but that holy grail - a naked
singularity.
>
>The patron hired the party's ship for a jump there and back to
confirm
>his suspicions and take some readings.
>
>The ship dropped out of jumpspace in the target 'system' but didn't
>find a black hole. Instead they found a Dyson sphere surrounding
the
>sun - and it was black. VERY black.
>
>It wasn't emitting enough black body radiation for something that
was
>absorbing the total energy output from the sun; which was why it
could
>not be seen optically from any nearby system. Even starlight
>reflecting off the surface was strangely -diminished-. Something
was
>absorbing the energy and messing with the laws of thermodynamics.
>
>It was one of Grandfather's artifacts, and only possible with TL25+
>handwaves. Unfortunately the group never found out how it worked
>or why it was there, before breaking up.
>
>I've toyed with the idea of using it again if I ever run another
game,
>so I won't explain further.
>(PS It -wasn't- a big black globe generator)
>
>Graeme
Unless something is done to solve the problem, a dyson sphere is visible in
the Infrared. Grandfather may have solved this problem.
Reference: http://www.student.nada.kth.se/~nv91-asa/dysonFAQ.html
Clifford Linehan
http://herons-reach.homepage.com/traveller
Developing Vlanchiets Qlom and the Core Route.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 18:02:39 +0000
From: Paul Campbell <kemitix@users.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: Eyes
On Tue, Dec 05, 2000 at 08:10:41PM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> In mail you write:
>
> > Gordon Horne wrote:
> >> ObTML: There are a lot of mutants on this list, aren't there 8^)
> >
> > Well, I might be one of them:
> >
> > I can kick my left shoulder with my right heel while standing.
> >
> > I can move my smallest finger (oposite to the thumb, I don't know the
> > proper English word) independently of the others.
>
> "Little finger".
Also 'pinky'.
- --
Paul Campbell (Sourceforge) <kemitix@users.sourceforge.net>
GPG Key fingerprint = 9C4F 31A3 8814 9F94 A533 A979 E63F 0C69 A771 0F24
http://www.kemitix.uklinux.net
jupiter: 6:01pm up 21 days, 8:01, 2 users, load average: 0.02, 0.01, 0.00
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 18:05:09 +0000
From: Paul Campbell <kemitix@users.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: Eyes
On Tue, Dec 05, 2000 at 05:19:02PM -0800, Rodney Basler wrote:
> >From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
> >Subject: Re: Eyes
> >
> >Gordon Horne wrote:
> >> ObTML: There are a lot of mutants on this list, aren't there 8^)
> >
> >Well, I might be one of them:
> >
> >I can kick my left shoulder with my right heel while standing.
> >
> >I can move my smallest finger (oposite to the thumb, I don't know the
> >proper English word) independently of the others.
> >
> >My tounge (spl?) is a few centimeters longer than most people's, making
> >it possible for me to lick the tip of my nose or stick my tounge into my
> >throat.
> >
> >Do I qualify as a mutant? ;-)
>
> You would certainly qualify for a date in certain circles....I
> wonder what evolutionary advantage there would be for a man who could
> french-kiss himself?
> <g,d,r>
Brings a whole new meaning to being 'tongue-tied'.
- --
Paul Campbell (Sourceforge) <kemitix@users.sourceforge.net>
GPG Key fingerprint = 9C4F 31A3 8814 9F94 A533 A979 E63F 0C69 A771 0F24
http://www.kemitix.uklinux.net
jupiter: 6:04pm up 21 days, 8:04, 2 users, load average: 0.16, 0.08, 0.02
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 10:28:34 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: MUTANTS! AIEEE! (was Re: Eyes)
>From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
>I can kick my left shoulder with my right heel while standing.
If you are not studying taekwondo or some other martial art that emphasizes
kicking, you should do so. Your crescent kicks and axe kicks would be
amazing.
>I can move my smallest finger (oposite to the thumb, I don't know the
proper English word)
>independently of the others.
It's call the pinky, the pinkie, or the little finger. That is pretty
weird.
>My tounge (spl?) is a few centimeters longer than most people's, making it
possible for me to
>lick the tip of my nose or stick my tounge into my throat.
Response not permitted on a family-oriented mailing list, but this could no
doubt be a fit subject for discussion somewhere on usenet.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 10:28:36 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
>From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
>The problem is that there just aren't any infantry weapons that can damage
high-TL armored
>vehicles, at least not with the vehicle and weapon design system of
Striker. High-TL armor is
>pretty good. High-TL CPR rounds can't penetrate it. It even takes a fairly
big energy weapon to
>do it. Much bigger that an infantryman can carry.
>
>The easy way to solve this problem is to have a weapon which _can_ damage
tanks. That's why I
>launched into the collapsing round tangent.
>
>I would love to hear other solutions to this problem, in particular, ones
which you could easily >use within a convention game setting.
I think that what we learn from the Striker rules is that in the Far Future:
1. Infantry is irrelevant to battles in open terrain at high tech levels.
2. Infantry is a cost-effective force to deploy against a lower tech level
armored force.
I propose that, to use infantry at high tech levels in Striker, particularly
in convention games, you develop scenarios specifically for infantry. I
have proposed a couple (surprise attack on a base (see Rule Book 2); forces
of different tech levels). I am generally not in favor of changing the
design rules (as you well know), particularly in the absence of design
standards (we have no design rules for infantry weapons).
I think that in the Far Future, infantry will be an integral part of the
armed forces, and it will have many important missions -- but combined-arms
fighting in relatively open terrain will not be one of them.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 10:42:01 -0800
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
>
> This one woman had just played "The Green Fields of Flanders" and
> dedicating it to all the soldiers who died "for no reason - ever." This,
> and other encounters with this person, who can send me from my usual
> slightly liberal stance into right-of-Attila reactionary in three
> picoseconds, provoked the following song from me:
>
[Great song snipped]
Doug, just for reference, can you point me to the lyrics of Gree fields of
Flanders?
For some rease this reminds me (in the reverse) of the poem criticizing AE
Housmans "Epitaph for an armie of mercenaries". The author obviously had no
idea of the cicumstances or context in which the original work was written.
I dearly wish I'd been there.
Tod
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 10:42:15 -0800
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
>
> This one woman had just played "The Green Fields of Flanders" and
> dedicating it to all the soldiers who died "for no reason - ever." This,
> and other encounters with this person, who can send me from my usual
> slightly liberal stance into right-of-Attila reactionary in three
> picoseconds, provoked the following song from me:
>
[Great song snipped]
Doug, just for reference, can you point me to the lyrics of Gree fields of
Flanders?
For some rease this reminds me (in the reverse) of the poem criticizing AE
Housmans "Epitaph for an armie of mercenaries". The author obviously had no
idea of the cicumstances or context in which the original work was written.
I dearly wish I'd been there.
Tod
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 11:15:38 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Striker Artillery
>From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
>I see Glenn is showing off his high station in Mongo society. :-)
Well, as Honorary Consul, I do have some obligations to present Mongon
culture to the locals.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 11:15:41 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: re: Digressing to Mongo (was RE: Striker Artillery)
>From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
>He is the Ambassador to Mongo, isn't he? Or is it Ambassador from Mongo? Or
No, I'm the Honorary Consul to Terra of the Government of Planet Mongo and
it Most Munificent and Protuberant Ruler, Ming the Merciless. Like most
honorary consuls, I am a native of this world hired by Mongo to represent
those of its interests set forth in my portfolio. An ambassador, by
contrast, would be a native of Mongo with up to plenipotentiary power.
The next iteration of business cards will have more alliteration.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 11:26:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: MUTANTS! AIEEE! (was Re: Eyes)
<<My tounge (spl?) is a few centimeters longer than most people's,
making it possible for me to ...>>
You must be terribly popular with the ladies ...
=====
Gerry Harris
**********************************************************************************************
Æther Traveller — http://www.aethertraveller.com
Soldier's Companion — http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html
**********************************************************************************************
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war" — Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1
**********************************************************************************************
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 19:35 +0000 (GMT)
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
Subject: Re: MUTANTS! AIEEE! (was Re: Eyes)
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEPPCAAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Greetings dear hearts.
Could someone explain what is so odd about moving the little finger
(indeed any finger) independently of the rest of the hand?
Hugs and kisses,
Mexal.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 12:58:18 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Eyes
Paul Campbell wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 05, 2000 at 08:10:41PM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> In mail you write:
>>
>>
>>> Gordon Horne wrote:
>>>
>>>> ObTML: There are a lot of mutants on this list, aren't there 8^)
>>>
>>> Well, I might be one of them:
>>>
>>> I can kick my left shoulder with my right heel while standing.
>>>
>>> I can move my smallest finger (oposite to the thumb, I don't know the
>>> proper English word) independently of the others.
>>
>> "Little finger".
>
>
> Also 'pinky'.
Especially when speaking of mutants <NARF!>
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 14:59:38 -0500
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: beards
Let me see here....
1. Beard - Yes
2. "heavy" - Yes
3. Glasses - Yes (only when I read Traveller or related topics)
4. Bald - No - I've often thought I would take some pictures of my
hair for the "after" and then shave the top of my head and take the "before"
pictures and get into the Snake Oil business.
Thom Harris - GOFIR - <Gnarly Old Fart In Residence>
"I spent most of my money on Wine, Women and Song; the rest I just wasted."
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 8:26 PM
Subject: Re: beards
> At 08:49 PM 12/5/2000 -0000, you wrote:
>
> > well than, I suppose I am in violation, as I do not have a beard or
> >glasses, not my fault tho, as a young buck I am unable to grow a
respectable
> >beard ;Þ
>
> Instant solution: Join the Army.
>
> Before I showed up for OSUT, I could raise a whisker to save my life.
> Three days in, I had to shave twice a day.
> --
>
> Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 12:58:57 -0800
From: sneadj@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: The Long Way Home (light speed jumps)
"James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Has anyone tried running a Traveller campaign using a jump drive like
> the superdrive in Poul Anderson's "The Long Way Home"? How'd it turn
> out?
I've never tried it, but it does sound like an interesting idea. For
those unfamiliar with the books, the superdrive is instantaneous for
those traveling, but is actually light speed, so a one parsec jump
takes 3.2 years for outside observers.
The tough part would be dealing with the problems of revisiting
worlds, since one or more decades would pass there during the
weeks or months you were gone. Without impressive longevity
tech, maintaining enemies, allies, and contacts on a world would
be largely impossible between visits. That's rather hard on role-
playing opportunities.
Such a campaign would have problems similar to those the would
occur when running a campaign based on the Qeng Ho from Vernor
Vinge's "A Deepness in the Sky".
My only solution would be to have the PCs stay in one system for
at least 4-8 sessions and so make interstellar travel both rare and
a big deal.
I've been thinking of a compromise, where each jump takes 3 or 4
months objective time. You get almost the same sense of
isolation, *but* revisiting a world does not mean the GM has to
toss out all the old NPCs and plot hooks.
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3363
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3364
Date: | 12/6/00 5:14:31 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Wednesday, December 6 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3364
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: MUTANTS! AIEEE! (was Re: Eyes)
Re: The Long Way Home (light speed jumps)
RE: Beard/glasses
Re: MUTANTS! AIEEE! (was Re: Eyes)
Starfire game
Re: Starfire game
Re: Starfire game
Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
Re: Starfire game
Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
Re: MUTANTS! AIEEE! (was Re: Eyes)
Re: The Long Way Home (light speed jumps)
Re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
Re: Technology Marches On: Big Guns
Re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
Re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
Re: MUTANTS! AIEEE! (was Re: Eyes)
Re: Digressing to Mongo (was RE: Striker Artillery)
GT variant space combat system
Re: GT variant space combat system
Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
Re: The Long Way Home (light speed jumps)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 13:24:13 -0800
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com>
Subject: Re: MUTANTS! AIEEE! (was Re: Eyes)
>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
>Subject: Re: MUTANTS! AIEEE! (was Re: Eyes)
>
>In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEPPCAAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
>Greetings dear hearts.
>
>Could someone explain what is so odd about moving the little finger
>(indeed any finger) independently of the rest of the hand?
>
It is when the finger is not attached to the hand at the time....
Rod Basler, COFIT
- ---------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer - It's not their fault, OK?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 16:41:30 -0500 (EST)
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
Subject: Re: The Long Way Home (light speed jumps)
On Wed, 6 Dec 2000 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> The tough part would be dealing with the problems of revisiting
> worlds, since one or more decades would pass there during the
> weeks or months you were gone. Without impressive longevity
> tech, maintaining enemies, allies, and contacts on a world would
> be largely impossible between visits. That's rather hard on role-
> playing opportunities.
Another possibility would be to borrow the technology from LeGuin's
"Hainish" series. Ships creep along at (nearly) the speed of light,
so interstellar travel takes (almost) no subjective time for the
travellers, but years for everyone else. On the other hand,
*communication* is instantaneous...
- J. Raynor
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 20:33:20 -0000
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Beard/glasses
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Kiri
> Aradia Morgan
> Sent: 05 December 2000 21:41
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: RE: Beard/glasses
>
>
> On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, Mark Preston wrote:
>
> > Lets' see ... beard? Yup. Glasses? Yup. Bald? Yup (well -
> getting that
> > way). Overweight? Ah ha! I _knew_ that I wasn't an average Trav.
> > player!!
>
> I'm overweight, but my vision is OK. But for some reason I
> seem to be
> missing the beard.....
>
That's all right Kiri - so's Mexal...
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 15:47:43 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: MUTANTS! AIEEE! (was Re: Eyes)
> In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEPPCAAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
> Greetings dear hearts.
>
> Could someone explain what is so odd about moving the little finger
> (indeed any finger) independently of the rest of the hand?
>
My understanding is that the muscles are linked, so it is *very* difficult
to move one finger without moving any of the others at all (there'll always
be a slight movement).
- -J. Jensen
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 15:00:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Troy Bradley <gladiator1999@yahoo.com>
Subject: Starfire game
CRISIS OF EMPIRE
AN EMPIRE OF FOUR THOUSAND WORLDS
The Pact of Mankind is a dinosaur lumbering toward
oblivion; hedged about by alien enemies, rotten with
decadence and corruption, run by competing oligarchies
of criminal corporations, but ruled by a single man –
the High Secretary of the Pact.
If the High Secretary should die, the contest to
succeed him would draw in:
*The head of the armed services, using the Fleet as a
tool of his political will,
*Powerful corporations, acting with calculated
ruthlessness to loose alien enemies into the heart of
the empire,
*The High Secretary’s children and his faithless
widow, pawns in a struggle which only one need
survive,
*The head of the Kona Tatsu, the dreaded secret police
who have the power of life and death in their hands,
*A secret cabal among the non-human races enslaved to
do Mankind’s labor, now ready to supplant their
masters; and,
*Rebellious troops from the empire’s borders,
determined to place one of their own sort in the High
Secretary’s chair.
If the High Secretary should die, it would be
feeding time in the piranha tank.
And the High Secretary is dead!
LET ME KNOW IF YOU WANT TO PLAY. Based on a great book
series. Troy
=====
*If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything!
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 15:17:06 -0800 (PST)
From: healyzh@aracnet.com
Subject: Re: Starfire game
> LET ME KNOW IF YOU WANT TO PLAY. Based on a great book
> series. Troy
Actually I'm more interested in knowing what the series of books is! Sounds
like something I'd like to read (though I've a strange feeling I already
have).
Zane
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 15:29:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Starfire game
healyzh@aracnet.com writes:
> > LET ME KNOW IF YOU WANT TO PLAY. Based on a great book
> > series. Troy
>
> Actually I'm more interested in knowing what the series of books is!
> Sounds like something I'd like to read (though I've a strange feeling I
> already have).
SOunds like the crisis of empire series. Not sure if I've read all of them,
though since they were written by different authors it doesn't matter much.
Decent but uninspired; one book by Chelsea Quinn Yarbro, one book by David
Drake and William Deitz, one book by David Drake and Roger McBride Allan.
Books are pretty typical of the authors.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 09:00:17 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
> From: "Douglas E. Berry"
> This one woman had just played "The Green Fields of Flanders" and
> dedicating it to all the soldiers who died "for no reason - ever." This,
> and other encounters with this person, who can send me from my usual
> slightly liberal stance into right-of-Attila reactionary in three
> picoseconds, provoked the following song from me:
Yeah. I am, as I have noted before, a chronic peacenik b*st*rd, but
pacifists really bug me.
Basically, I oppose the unjust wars of empires. Pacifists oppose the just
wars of the oppressed. There is a difference. Sometimes, alas, which is
which depends on which side you are on....
So from a stance that is _way_ to the left of "slightly liberal", I think
this woman is an a**hole too.
OBTRAV: People who oppose the Frontier Wars may be hawks when it comes to
other wars. They probably aren't all that afraid of psionics, either. In
fact, people like this are a major source of recruits for the Ine Givar, or
it's unarmed organisations, at least.
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 15:52:39 -0800
From: Bill <beast@aracnet.com>
Subject: Re: Starfire game
>healyzh@aracnet.com writes:
>> > LET ME KNOW IF YOU WANT TO PLAY. Based on a great book
>> > series. Troy
>>
>> Actually I'm more interested in knowing what the series of books is!
>> Sounds like something I'd like to read (though I've a strange feeling I
>> already have).
>
>SOunds like the crisis of empire series. Not sure if I've read all of them,
>though since they were written by different authors it doesn't matter much.
>Decent but uninspired; one book by Chelsea Quinn Yarbro, one book by David
>Drake and William Deitz, one book by David Drake and Roger McBride Allan.
>Books are pretty typical of the authors.
I can confirm that it is Crisis of Empire series. Or at least based on it.
The Kona Tatsu is right out of the books, as well as the Pact government.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 15:29:35 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
In mail you write:
> Must I really believe that you're missing the clues
> As you watch CNN for the evening news?
> When you think of the victims that you wouldn't save
> Does it make you feel better to piss on my grave?
> But as for appeasement and why it is wrong
> You'll be learning yourself before too very long
> For you're letting it happen again and again
> And again and again and again and again!
I recall having to explain to several people *why* it was a bad idea to
just let Saddam alone back before Desert Storm.
I'm pleased to say that *after* I related the tale of Minister
Chamberlain, Hitler, and the Sudentenland several suddenly decided that
stopping Saddam was a very ggood idea.
Alas, that bit of history seems to be forgotten by far too many people.
I think that most folks don't seem to grasp the idea that Hitler,
Stalin and all the rest didn't start out as full grown menaces. They
worked up to it.
> Rule of Filking #315: Never sign "Flanders" in a room filled with veterns
> and nuclear weapons designers.
Rule of gaming #XX23: Never run campaign that lets the characters "be
themselves, transported to the game world" if they are science or
engineering types, and *especially* not if they are budding polymaths.
I was one of the players who terrified a DM that made that mistake. I
started out by reciting *from memory* not merely how to make gunpowder,
but how to procure and refine the ingredients. I also told him how I'd
make money by supplying the local miners with "explosion proof" lamps.
When he wanted to know where I'd get the copper screening, I told him
I'd visit the local weavers guild and order "cloth of copper" gauze. :-)
When he ended the campaign I was working on producing phosgene, and
talking with a nuclear physics undergrad about building a reactor. <eg>
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 15:42:28 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: MUTANTS! AIEEE! (was Re: Eyes)
In mail you write:
> In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEPPCAAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
> Greetings dear hearts.
>
> Could someone explain what is so odd about moving the little finger
> (indeed any finger) independently of the rest of the hand?
Many people rarely do anything that calls for moving the fingers
independently (other than typing, which only calls for a *very* limited
set of movements from them).
Sideways movements are especially tricky. I recall *training* my
fingers so I could do the "Vulcan Salute". For extra fun, once you
master that, try bring the middle two fingers *together* from that
position *without* moving the outer two. It's not easy, at least not at
first.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 15:47:58 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: The Long Way Home (light speed jumps)
In mail you write:
> I've never tried it, but it does sound like an interesting idea. For
> those unfamiliar with the books, the superdrive is instantaneous for
> those traveling, but is actually light speed, so a one parsec jump
> takes 3.2 years for outside observers.
>
> The tough part would be dealing with the problems of revisiting
> worlds, since one or more decades would pass there during the
> weeks or months you were gone. Without impressive longevity
> tech, maintaining enemies, allies, and contacts on a world would
> be largely impossible between visits. That's rather hard on role-
> playing opportunities.
>
> Such a campaign would have problems similar to those the would
> occur when running a campaign based on the Qeng Ho from Vernor
> Vinge's "A Deepness in the Sky".
<snip>
> I've been thinking of a compromise, where each jump takes 3 or 4
> months objective time. You get almost the same sense of
> isolation, *but* revisiting a world does not mean the GM has to
> toss out all the old NPCs and plot hooks.
Nive wrote a short story that had Earth visited by "Qeng Ho" type alien
merchants. If Earth couldn't build a laser launch cannon to give them
an extra boost, they were going to make the sun go nova to provide the
boost.
As the protagonist explained to a government agent when the agent
complained "But why would they destroy a potential market?":
"In interstellar trade there is no repeat business!"
Workable, but *very* different.
And definitely a case of "When the ship lifts, all debts are paid."
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 19:17:11 EST
From: "Michael A. Hoxie" <ludowick@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
Steven Hudson wrote:
>>- -Can Ludowick's Mobile Anti-Armor Mine be modified to Striker
>>compliance?
>
> That was a robot, IIRC? Most (all?) Trav robot rules screw with all
>sorts of OTU assumptions...
It was an attempt to do an RPV with Striker. I think it violates the
minimum size (less than a meter on a side). I also just scaled the grav
modules down to fit in it (if the use CG hunter-seekers in Dune, why not
40 cm long grav RPV for Traveller?), which might be breaking the rules,
too.
Ludowick
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 19:17:11 EST
From: "Michael A. Hoxie" <ludowick@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Technology Marches On: Big Guns
Steven Hudson wrote:
...
>>They could then go on to put down 15 tons of ammunition
>>in the following five minutes.."
>>
>>Ouch. Time to update Striker.
>
> Not really - that's pretty close to TL 8 15cm howitzers
>in Striker, once you allow for the "15 tons of ammunition"
>to include propellant, which the prose doesn't clarify.
>(8 rpm @ 60kg, or up to 10 rpm if you allow TL 9; low of
>6 rpm @ 70kg for 16cm @ TL 8).
TOT artillery sheafs should probably get a bonus (like the CBM hit
bonus) for all those rounds going off at once (maybe MRLs as well,
but they're usually less accurate so there would more dispersion).
Ludowick
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 19:17:11 EST
From: "Michael A. Hoxie" <ludowick@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
Steven Hudson wrote:
> Collapsing rounds require damper box storage :( - bottom of same
>page
Bummer.
>>The grav generators used on the PGMP-14 and the FGMP-15 reduce the
>>effective weight of the weapons by a factor of 10, so that we can
>>somewhat reasonably have a 2 cm gun which weighs 10 kg with its grav
>>generator on, or a 4 cm gun which weighs 14 kg with its grav generator
>>on.
>>This is certainly within the range you need for a useful weapon.
>
> <koff/> recoil! </koff>
In WW2, the Swedes had a hyper-velocity 2 cm. recoilless rifle (guess
what its official nickname was). Takes care of recoil & makes the
weapon lighter, too. The rounds are a bit bulky for their caliber,
though.
>Why not just 0.1 kt (or smaller?) nukes in small tac missiles - a
>ground-
>hugging target will give a tertiary (massive collateral damage to
>civilian
>victims) blast radius of only 200 meters if it goes off.
The U.S. army's "Davy Crocket" RCL of the frantic 50s fired a 0.01 KT
shell out to 2 miles or so. The crew themselves had to duck & cover.
Ludowick <the other, other Michael>
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 19:17:11 EST
From: "Michael A. Hoxie" <ludowick@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
Luther Martin wrote:
>Another problem with Striker is that infantry are basically useless at
>higher TLs; they are sadly lacking any weapons which can damage even
>moderately-armored vehicles. The closest they come are the man-portble
>energy weapons, which are still much too small to put a dent in armor.
Some ideas to give infantry AT weapons more punch:
1. Make up a top attack guidance package for tac-missiles (say TL-8, Cr
1000, 1 kg. (or effectively no added weight). By TL-9 missile can attack
any face of the target at firer's choice, but attacking a face of the
target on the other side of the vehicle from the firer gives a -2 DM
(from
the Drone Missiles rule). The TL-9 package might cost Cr 1500 or 2000.
2. Adding tandem HEAP warheads in the same missile (like the Russian
"Ataka"
e.g.) would boost the missiles PV by 8; add an IR follow-up and PV is
+16.
I'd say about 2.2 times weight & cost of standard warhead for a tandem
warhead.
I think Ian Whitchurch is right about the ability of chameleon suited
infantry to attack from too close for point defense to protect a vehicle.
3. The ATRL tables could be extended to higher TL's (and possibly add
follow-up rounds or tandem warheads to them).
4. The energy weapon tables could be extended to include plasma/fusion
support weapons (a 2-man PGMP-12 "plasma-bazooka")? Such weapons might
even be available starting at TL-11 or 10.
<from another post>
>One big problem with armored combat is that a vehicle gets the
>initiative
>of the commander rather than the average of the crew, so on vehicles
>with
>fairly big crews, like my TL 5 Mark V clones, you get a force which is
>almost all high initiative. This takes away part of the feel of
>Striker.
Agreed. I'd give them the morale of the commander, but use the
initiative
of the whole crew's average morale -- gives low tech tanks with radios an
advantage over those still using signal flags. :)
>Other rules, like units taking damage uniformly also seem not quite
>right.
>I would much prefer each hit to be randomly decided so that you have a
>chance of one guy escaping unhurt.
Sounds better than uniform damage (expcept *maybe* for cluster bomblets),
as they tend to leave fewer targets unhit, from what I've read.
>In general, though, the basic Striker rules are one of the best
>miniatures
>systems out there.
It was the first miniatures rule set I saw that made command, control &
communications the heart of the rule system. Other rules tended to be
battles between two omniscient generals & their telepathically controled
pawns...
Ludowick <aka Michael>
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 00:38 +0000 (GMT)
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
Subject: Re: MUTANTS! AIEEE! (was Re: Eyes)
In-Reply-To: <OE630xtOjcVrjeUg7wG00006242@hotmail.com>
Greetings dear hearts.
James said "My understanding is that the muscles are linked, so it is
*very* difficult to move one finger without moving any of the others at
all (there'll always be a slight movement)."
Oh well, there's another mutation for me :-)
Hugs and kisses,
Mexal.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 18:40:31 -0600
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Digressing to Mongo (was RE: Striker Artillery)
"Glenn M. Goffin" wrote:
>
> >From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
>
> >He is the Ambassador to Mongo, isn't he? Or is it Ambassador from Mongo? Or
>
> No, I'm the Honorary Consul to Terra of the Government of Planet Mongo and
> it Most Munificent and Protuberant Ruler, Ming the Merciless. Like most
> honorary consuls, I am a native of this world hired by Mongo to represent
> those of its interests set forth in my portfolio.
_That's_ a relief! I was concerned that my security clearance would
suffer, since I didn't file a contact report after meeting you at BayCon
this past year.... ;-)
<<snip>>
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 16:41:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: GT variant space combat system
For those who bitch about the realism of the gurps traveller space combat
system, I made an attempt at a 'realistic' version (to the extent that you
can be realistic given traveller technology, of course). The logical
system for hitting and evasion is based on logic used for on-list discussions
of dodging at space combat ranges.
For those who are familiar with Bruce Macintosh' MCS, the physical logic used
is similar, but the mechanics are unrelated.
Any comments (either on plausibility or playability) would be welcome.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 16:42:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: GT variant space combat system
Anthony Jackson writes:
> For those who bitch about the realism of the gurps traveller space combat
> system, I made an attempt at a 'realistic' version (to the extent that you
> can be realistic given traveller technology, of course). The logical
> system for hitting and evasion is based on logic used for on-list
> discussions of dodging at space combat ranges.
>
> For those who are familiar with Bruce Macintosh' MCS, the physical logic
> used is similar, but the mechanics are unrelated.
>
> Any comments (either on plausibility or playability) would be welcome.
>
>
Ooops. You can find it at http://maps.grandsurvey.com/gtcs.html . Minor
detail ;)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 13:44:26 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
On 6 Dec 2000, at 15:29, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> In mail you write:
>
> > Must I really believe that you're missing the clues
> > As you watch CNN for the evening news?
> > When you think of the victims that you wouldn't save
> > Does it make you feel better to piss on my grave?
> > But as for appeasement and why it is wrong
> > You'll be learning yourself before too very long
> > For you're letting it happen again and again
> > And again and again and again and again!
>
> I recall having to explain to several people *why* it was a bad idea to
> just let Saddam alone back before Desert Storm.
>
> I'm pleased to say that *after* I related the tale of Minister
> Chamberlain, Hitler, and the Sudentenland several suddenly decided that
> stopping Saddam was a very ggood idea.
>
> Alas, that bit of history seems to be forgotten by far too many people.
> I think that most folks don't seem to grasp the idea that Hitler,
> Stalin and all the rest didn't start out as full grown menaces. They
> worked up to it.
>
> > Rule of Filking #315: Never sign "Flanders" in a room filled with veterns and
> > nuclear weapons designers.
>
> Rule of gaming #XX23: Never run campaign that lets the characters "be
> themselves, transported to the game world" if they are science or
> engineering types, and *especially* not if they are budding polymaths.
>
> I was one of the players who terrified a DM that made that mistake. I
> started out by reciting *from memory* not merely how to make gunpowder,
> but how to procure and refine the ingredients.
I remember in a similar game (in a post holocaust style setting) upsetting the
GM considerably doing the same thing, and then setting up a corning plant to
make nice, stable and slower burning corned powder. A friend designed the case
and primer manufacturing plant, and I did some sketches for a submachinegun. A
quote from the GM "I think it's obscene that there are people around that know
so much about guns and killing things." I think the LAWs and ballon launched
glider bombs were the final straw :)
>I also told him how I'd
> make money by supplying the local miners with "explosion proof" lamps.
> > When he wanted to know where I'd get the copper screening, I told him
> I'd visit the local weavers guild and order "cloth of copper" gauze. :-)
> > When he ended the campaign I was working on producing phosgene
Which method were you looking at?
- --
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 19:02:00 -0500
From: knightsky@juno.com
Subject: Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
On Wed, 06 Dec 2000 08:04:22 "Douglas E. Berry"
<gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> writes:
(large snip)
> If it weren't for the dead that you won't even bless
> You'd be hiding out now from the Waffen-SS!
"Violence never solves anything."
"Of course it does. It solved Hitler, didn't it?"
Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."
________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 15:52:36 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: The Long Way Home (light speed jumps)
In mail you write:
> Another possibility would be to borrow the technology from LeGuin's
> "Hainish" series. Ships creep along at (nearly) the speed of light,
> so interstellar travel takes (almost) no subjective time for the
> travellers, but years for everyone else. On the other hand,
> *communication* is instantaneous...
> - J. Raynor
*Very* different from Traveller. Damn near the *opposite* set of
assumptions.
Alas, the ansible is actually more destructive to relativity and
physics in general than jump drive is.
When you've got folks travelling at large fractions of c relative to
each other, "instantaneous" just plain won't work. Hell, it work work
if they are moving relative to each other.
I can visualize a universe where relativity *and* FTL exist. But one
where relativity and "simultaneaity at a distance" co-exist is flat out
impossible.
<sigh>
If you want to know why, just consider that a ship coasting at .9 c
relative to a planet, and the planet *both* consider themselves to be
at rest. Which means it's the *other* one who has a "slow" time rate.
Given that the slowing of time at due to relative velocities has been
measured, even at "normal" speeds(!), it's not *possible* for events to
be simultaneous. Which means "instantaneous" communication is out.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3364
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3365
Date: | 12/7/00 5:10:34 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Thursday, December 7 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3365
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: MUTANTS! AIEEE! (was Re: Eyes)
RE: Digressing to Mongo
RE: GT variant space combat system
Re: GT variant space combat system
Re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
Re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
RE: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
Players as PCs(was: Jodies and other assorted cadences)
Re: Technology Marches On: Big Guns
Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
Re: The Long Way Home (light speed jumps)
Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
Re: MUTANTS! AIEEE! (was Re: Eyes)
Re: Players as PCs(was: Jodies and other assorted cadences)
Re: MUTANTS! AIEEE! (was Re: Eyes)
Re: Players as PCs(was: Jodies and other assorted cadences)
RE: beards
Taking Ship Design Requests....
Re: Deckplans for the big stuff
High velocity ATmissile
Re: MUTANTS! AIEEE! (was Re: Eyes)
Re: The Long Way Home (light speed jumps)
Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 19:25:27 -0600
From: Charles R Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net>
Subject: Re: MUTANTS! AIEEE! (was Re: Eyes)
mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson) wrote:
>
>In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEPPCAAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
>Greetings dear hearts.
>
>Could someone explain what is so odd about moving the little finger
>(indeed any finger) independently of the rest of the hand?
>
most people have limited independent movement of the little finger. I
for example, when the fingers are outstreched, can only move the little
finger half way to curled position with out the ring finger moving. I
believe this is due more to training than physical reasons (very few
uses for the littlefinger)
Charles H
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 17:32:11 -0800
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: RE: Digressing to Mongo
> The next iteration of business cards will have more alliteration.
I can imagine addresses in Mongo City using alliteration also. Just like in
Washington, DC. As you go North in DC you pass A Street, B Street, ..., Z
Street, followed by streets with two-syllable names running beginning with A
through Z, then followed by streets with three-syllable names, etc. Maybe
you could do addresses for the whole US this way using names of organic
compounds. Anyway, maybe street names in Mongo City use the same general
idea, but using more and more words beginning with the same letter. The good
parts of town would then be those far away from the city center, where more
alliteration is required to fully say the address.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 17:39:01 -0800
From: "tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@bigfoot.com>
Subject: RE: GT variant space combat system
I would like to see it before I comment on it :)
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Anthony Jackson
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 4:41 PM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: GT variant space combat system
For those who bitch about the realism of the gurps traveller space combat
system, I made an attempt at a 'realistic' version (to the extent that you
can be realistic given traveller technology, of course). The logical
system for hitting and evasion is based on logic used for on-list
discussions
of dodging at space combat ranges.
For those who are familiar with Bruce Macintosh' MCS, the physical logic
used
is similar, but the mechanics are unrelated.
Any comments (either on plausibility or playability) would be welcome.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 17:46:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: GT variant space combat system
tsykoduk writes:
> I would like to see it before I comment on it :)
See my followup post, I noticed right after posting I'd left something out ;)
http://maps.grandsurvey.com/gtcs.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 18:05:34 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Subject: Re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
...
>> Why not look into a single-shot missile (well, rocket) with approach
>> velocities in the CPR gun categories, and put the nuke in that?
>
>Because rockets need time and space to reach those sorts of velocities.
>The higher the accel, the less time and space, but the more expensive
>the rocket gets.
>
>Basicly, any rocket that can do that in a decently short range will
>cost a lot more (and *bulk* a lot more!) ythan the equivalent CPR round.
Understood, but the request for tender seems to allow for
crew-served alternatives.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 18:09:13 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
>From: "Michael A. Hoxie" <ludowick@juno.com>
>Subject: Re: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
...
> > That was a robot, IIRC? Most (all?) Trav robot rules screw with all
> >sorts of OTU assumptions...
>
>It was an attempt to do an RPV with Striker. I think it violates the
>minimum size (less than a meter on a side). I also just scaled the grav
>modules down to fit in it (if the use CG hunter-seekers in Dune, why not
>40 cm long grav RPV for Traveller?), which might be breaking the rules, too.
I'm not worried about "breaking" the design rules - just the usual
"what happens contradiction-wise if cheap dumbots exist in OTU?" :(
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 18:11:29 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: RE: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
>Subject: RE: Giving [Striker] Infantry Teeth
...
>I think that what we learn from the Striker rules is that in the Far Future:
>1. Infantry is irrelevant to battles in open terrain at high tech levels.
There were suspicions along those lines that seemed to be
proved in 1939-40 :>
Of course, "proof" is dubious without enough data ... or ATGM's!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 18:26:12 -0800
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Players as PCs(was: Jodies and other assorted cadences)
on 12/6/00 4:44 PM, Rupert Boleyn at rboleyn@paradise.net.nz wrote:
>> Rule of gaming #XX23: Never run campaign that lets the characters "be
>> themselves, transported to the game world" if they are science or
>> engineering types, and *especially* not if they are budding polymaths.
>>
>> I was one of the players who terrified a DM that made that mistake. I
>> started out by reciting *from memory* not merely how to make gunpowder,
>> but how to procure and refine the ingredients.
>
> I remember in a similar game (in a post holocaust style setting) upsetting the
> GM considerably doing the same thing, and then setting up a corning plant to
> make nice, stable and slower burning corned powder. A friend designed the case
> and primer manufacturing plant, and I did some sketches for a submachinegun. A
> quote from the GM "I think it's obscene that there are people around that know
> so much about guns and killing things." I think the LAWs and ballon launched
> glider bombs were the final straw :)
>
Played in a game like that. Silly GM. Our characters started with what
possesions we personally had on our persons at the beginning of the game.
With my old game group, that meant not only the usual junk, but as most of
us had carry permits and were habitually armed, three handguns got added to
the mix.
Not long after, napalm, fougasse, gun powder and gun cotton,
nitroglycerin...you get the picture.
There are advantages to being a gun loving, post apopclyptic chemist.
>> I also told him how I'd
>> make money by supplying the local miners with "explosion proof" lamps.
>>> When he wanted to know where I'd get the copper screening, I told him
>> I'd visit the local weavers guild and order "cloth of copper" gauze. :-)
>>> When he ended the campaign I was working on producing phosgene
>
> Which method were you looking at?
>
Please don't post this to the list. Someone might try something stupid.
Tod
- --
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend"
- --
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.solsec.org
http://www.grandsurvey.com
http://travellerguns.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 18:28:17 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Technology Marches On: Big Guns
>From: "Michael A. Hoxie" <ludowick@juno.com>
>Subject: Re: Technology Marches On: Big Guns
...
>TOT artillery sheafs should probably get a bonus (like the CBM hit
>bonus) for all those rounds going off at once (maybe MRLs as well,
>but they're usually less accurate so there would more dispersion).
Strangely, GDW (Chadwick?) included such a rule in 2ed _Command
Decision_, but not in _Combined Arms_ (moderns) - that may be due
to when the items were published, or it may be a simplification
in assuming that post-45 all strikes are TOT.
The latter has the advantage that you can simply assign (as ref)
a morale bonus for those (low-tech?) forces that have poorly co-
ordinated artillery support, and let the default rules cover all
of the other cases.
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 18:29:59 -0800
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com>
Subject: Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
>Subject: Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
>
>At 06:47 AM 12/6/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>>Thanks Doug, I was about to dig out my copy of the NESFA
>>Hymnal and post the lyrics to that one.
>
>I had "Outer Space Marines" follow-up my finiest moment as a filker.
>
>This one woman had just played "The Green Fields of Flanders" and
>dedicating it to all the soldiers who died "for no reason - ever." This,
>and other encounters with this person, who can send me from my usual
>slightly liberal stance into right-of-Attila reactionary in three
>picoseconds, provoked the following song from me:
>
>Willie McBride's Reply by Dick Eney
>music: The Green Fields of Flanders
>
>Well, how d'ye do, Mister Folksinger, sir?
>You're as much of a twit as your forerunners were!
>Sure, this isn't the way that a corpse should behave,
>But your twaddle is making me turn in my grave!
>You say we were fools, duped by leaders who lied
>Yet you're wandering free through this fair countryside --
>If it weren't for the dead that you won't even bless
>You'd be hiding out now from the Waffen-SS!
I know that I am treading on dangerous ground here, so before I even
open my mouth, I want to assure you, Doug, that I am in complete agreement
with you. However, there are a few inconsistancies in this song that I feel
compelled (possibly as the lemming feels compelled) to address. The Pvt.
William McBride in the song was a soldier in the 1st World War, not the 2nd.
While I have actually heard a few extremist fruitcakes that argue that WWII
(along with all other wars) was unnecessary, most sane people agree that
stopping the Nazis was a vitally important task. Mentioning the Waffen-SS
in the context of this song, however, confuses the issue, and is perhaps
strangely ironic because the sacrifice of McBride helped bring about the
conditions that allowed the Nazis to come to power in the first place.
And to describe the second half of the 20th century as "... a peace
half a century long..." is nothing short of ridiculous. It was two former
allies (only "allies" in the sense that old antagonists were forced to fight
a common opponent) glaring at each other over the barbed-wired remains of
Germany, daring each other to make the first move; all the while goading
smaller nations to fight the war by proxy. If you call it "...a peace", I
think that my grandfather-in-law who lost his toes in Korea, my father who
fought in Vietnam, my friends who were in Desert Storm might have a
differing opinion. If this were the 3rd Imperium and we were a typical
mercenary company, business would have been very, very good for the past
half-century. I sincerely doubt that a single day has passed since May 5th,
1945 where there has not been some armed conflict somewhere in the world.
So what, exactly, am I saying here? I guess I am saying two rather
contradictory things - first: thank you, Doug, for hitting a self-righteous
twit in the face with a dose of reality. Second, however, I think that Mr.
Eney's filk is not a very good rebuttal to the original song. There were
people who seriously and sincerely belived that the war of 1914 would put an
end to wars, at least in Europe. Doesn't the fact that the very conflict in
the Balkans that started the whole slaughterhouse 86 years ago is
_still_going_on_ make the sacrifice of Willie McBride and the millions like
him even the tiniest bit poignent? When just a few years ago the 'west' was
increasingly calling for some form of armed intervention in Serbia and
Russia was threatening to go to war if Serbia were attacked, I literally
tore at my hair screaming "Doesn't anyone READ their history books anymore?
This is exactly what happened in 1914!"
<sigh>
OK, It is time to crawl into my bunker, don my asbestos underwear
and wait for the aftermath, but just like the lemming running toward the
sea, I just had to get these thoughts off my chest.
Sorry.
Rod Basler, COFIT
- --------------------------------------------
Disclaimer - This is _my_ foot in my mouth here, my employer has nothing to
do with it.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 15:02:24 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: The Long Way Home (light speed jumps)
On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 03:52:36PM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> I can visualize a universe where relativity *and* FTL exist.
It's a good thing Traveller doesn't hold to relativity. Time travel
can be pretty hard to GM.
> But one where relativity and "simultaneaity at a distance" co-exist
> is flat out impossible.
I had a GURPS campaign set in a world with instantaneous
communications (and FTL travel), and relativity. Good thing I was
prepared to deal with causality violations ...
Almost a pity, really, that the players never caused any.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 19:10:45
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
At 06:29 PM 12/6/2000 -0800, you wrote:
> I know that I am treading on dangerous ground here, so before I even
>open my mouth, I want to assure you, Doug, that I am in complete agreement
>with you. However, there are a few inconsistancies in this song that I feel
>compelled (possibly as the lemming feels compelled) to address. The Pvt.
>William McBride in the song was a soldier in the 1st World War, not the 2nd.
>While I have actually heard a few extremist fruitcakes that argue that WWII
>(along with all other wars) was unnecessary, most sane people agree that
>stopping the Nazis was a vitally important task. Mentioning the Waffen-SS
>in the context of this song, however, confuses the issue, and is perhaps
>strangely ironic because the sacrifice of McBride helped bring about the
>conditions that allowed the Nazis to come to power in the first place.
If you look closely, the song's verses describe the British military
experience after WWI. The first verse is WWII. The second describes Korea
and the other colonioal wars of the Cold War period, the last is a warning
about the future.
> OK, It is time to crawl into my bunker, don my asbestos underwear
>and wait for the aftermath, but just like the lemming running toward the
>sea, I just had to get these thoughts off my chest.
You make good points, no flame.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 19:16:21
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: MUTANTS! AIEEE! (was Re: Eyes)
You want mutants?
I can see a bit further into the UV than most people.
I have survived having a blood platelet count of *zero.* (Verified. They
looked at the sample and didn't see a single cell.)
After having my spleen removed, I grew a splenuclar that is functioning.
(Yes, I regenerated a major organ.)
My doctor has asked that when the mother ship comes to get me, he wants a
few minutes with the medical officer.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 19:23:12
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Players as PCs(was: Jodies and other assorted cadences)
At 06:26 PM 12/6/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>Played in a game like that. Silly GM. Our characters started with what
>possesions we personally had on our persons at the beginning of the game.
>With my old game group, that meant not only the usual junk, but as most of
>us had carry permits and were habitually armed, three handguns got added to
>the mix.
Been there. After the GM had recovered from reading my DD-214, I showed
him my personal copies of FM 3-11 Flame Field Expedients, FM 5-31
Boobytraps, and, best of all, FM 31-210 Improvised Muntions Handbook.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 17:20:10 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: MUTANTS! AIEEE! (was Re: Eyes)
On 6 Dec 2000, at 19:16, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> You want mutants?
>
> I can see a bit further into the UV than most people.
>
> I have survived having a blood platelet count of *zero.* (Verified. They
> looked at the sample and didn't see a single cell.)
>
> After having my spleen removed, I grew a splenuclar that is functioning.
> (Yes, I regenerated a major organ.)
Not bad going. Normally only the liver has that sort of capacity, and AFAIK it
has to have at least some material to grow from.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 17:21:52 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Players as PCs(was: Jodies and other assorted cadences)
On 6 Dec 2000, at 19:23, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> At 06:26 PM 12/6/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>
> >Played in a game like that. Silly GM. Our characters started with what
> >possesions we personally had on our persons at the beginning of the game.
> >With my old game group, that meant not only the usual junk, but as most of us
> >had carry permits and were habitually armed, three handguns got added to the
> >mix.
>
> Been there. After the GM had recovered from reading my DD-214, I showed
> him my personal copies of FM 3-11 Flame Field Expedients, FM 5-31
> Boobytraps, and, best of all, FM 31-210 Improvised Muntions Handbook.
Ah yes, my father had a copy of that latter at one point. From personal
experience most of the jellified petrol mixes in it work. The one using beef
fat is the most reliable, but it's easy to get a jell that's rather on the hard
side.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 19:11:20 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: beards
Oh well, everyone else has :
1. Beard - Yes
2. "heavy" - Not really, but I have more fat than I consider appropriate
for my body.
3. Glasses - No, but only because the optician told me wearing them
wouldn't help
4. Bald - No, though I have a "high forehead".
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 00:14:49 -0600
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Taking Ship Design Requests....
As the end of the semester approaches, I find myself anticipating some
free time. With that in mind, are there any requests for starship
designs from AuricTech Shipyards (using FF&S2)?
I'll probably post a couple of designs over the next month or so anyway,
but I'd be quite willing to entertain requests at this time.
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 02:16:57 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re: Deckplans for the big stuff
shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) writes:
> GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>> a "Garden" from Final Fantasy 8, the Yamato/Argo, the Sol Bianca,
>>> the Bebop (from Cowboy Bebop; if you have not seen this anime, do so), the
>>> Star Leaf (from Gall Force) and its various subsystems,
>
>Don't recognize any of these.
Never watched Star Blazers? Good Heavens, man!
All are Japanese in origin, with all but the first coming from anime of
various ages. The Yamato stuff is two decades old easy, hitting the US as
Star Blazers many years ago. Gall Force is now a surprising 14 years old,
featuring a three-hulled micro-carrier with a stonking big lifeboat. Sol
Bianca is a sleekly unlikely hull with a truly ugly spinal mount, coming from
a show of the same name. Cowboy Bebop is a few years old, just finished
hitting the US in VHS and DVD formats last month, and is so adaptable to
Traveller it's suspicious (the setting is different, but only the serial
numbers would need removal). The Bebop is "a converted fishing ship" now used
by an unruly (to summarize) group of bounty hunters; gravity wheel, fighter
launch bay, and scary refrigerator included.
The "Gardens" of Final Fantasy VIII (one of a well known series of console
RPGs, with the last five (#5 thru #9) available on Playstation) are
self-contained arcologies. I'd say more, but would have to give spoiler
warnings...
GC
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 09:02:18 +0100
From: "Patrik Holmström" <glappkaeft@hotmail.com>
Subject: High velocity ATmissile
>> Why not look into a single-shot missile (well, rocket) with approach
>>velocities in the CPR gun categories, and put the nuke in that?
>
>Can this type of design stuff be done with FF&S?
Sure you can and you don't even have to use the nuke. Being lazy I have a
spreadsheet with the FFS2 missile design sequence (with errata). On thing
that I would like to note is that the rules doesn't use the logarithmic
acceleration formula so the weight of the Booster stage will be a bit low. I
believe that the British are designing something similar.
Kinetic Anti Tank (KAT) Missile-8 by Dimashq
The KAT missile accelerates a 8 kg heavy depleted uranium penetrator to a
velocity of 1500 m/s (5400 kph) giving the projectile a impact energy of 9
MJ. With a initial burn time of 1/3 of a second the missile accelerates to
top speed in under 250 meters. A second rocket stage then kicks in to
sustain this acceleration for 3 seconds (giving a range of 5 km).
FFS2 Pen: 252 (88 cm of hard steel)
Guidance: Laser.
Wt: 15.56 kg.
Range: 250 m -> 5 km.
Time of flight: 3.33 seconds.
Initial burn: 250 m (0.33 seconds).
Velocity: 1500 m/s (5400 kph)
Cost: 1007 Cr.
Patrik Holmström
Dimashq Weapons
http://www.docs.uu.se/~paho9211/trav/
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 08:19:57 -0000
From: "Andrew Hewson" <loup_wolf@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: MUTANTS! AIEEE! (was Re: Eyes)
Not in my mutant strain it isn't ;-)
Don't worry Megan, it's probably just us UK mutants that have the advanced
physical forms ;_))
Regards
Andy loup_wolf@hotmail.com ICQ: 13533282
========================******========================
Trolls aren't stupid ! They're thermally challenged
- ----Original Message Follows----
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>
Subject: Re: MUTANTS! AIEEE! (was Re: Eyes)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 15:47:43 -0600
> In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEPPCAAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
> Greetings dear hearts.
>
> Could someone explain what is so odd about moving the little finger
> (indeed any finger) independently of the rest of the hand?
>
My understanding is that the muscles are linked, so it is *very* difficult
to move one finger without moving any of the others at all (there'll always
be a slight movement).
- -J. Jensen
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 01:14:18 -0800
From: sneadj@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: The Long Way Home (light speed jumps)
"John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu> wrote:
>
> On Wed, 6 Dec 2000 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> >
> > The tough part would be dealing with the problems of revisiting
> > worlds, since one or more decades would pass there during the weeks
> > or months you were gone. Without impressive longevity tech,
> > maintaining enemies, allies, and contacts on a world would be
> > largely impossible between visits. That's rather hard on role-
> > playing opportunities.
>
> Another possibility would be to borrow the technology from LeGuin's
> "Hainish" series. Ships creep along at (nearly) the speed of light,
> so interstellar travel takes (almost) no subjective time for the
> travellers, but years for everyone else. On the other hand,
> *communication* is instantaneous...
Which means you likely have a large interstellar internet and highly
advanced VR. In fact, one way to simulate FTL travel would be to
have teleoperated robots that folks could use to interact with
people on a distant world. I'm seeing some sort of odd mixture of
LeGuin's Hainish novels and Michael Swanwick's _Stations of the
Tide_. I would enjoy such a setting but it has one *serious* limit.
In a universe which has lightspeed travel and no FTL comms it is
*easy* to escape pursuit and to flee the law. In one with STL travel
and FTL comms it is nearly impossible to do so, since info on your
crimes will have arrived years before you do. The only way to flee
justice and other consequences would be to make a long jump into
uncharted or alien space and them come back, allowing a century
or more to pass during your absence.
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 04:57:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
- --- Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote:
> <some good stuff snipped>
>
> Alas, that bit of history seems to be forgotten by
> far too many people.
> I think that most folks don't seem to grasp the idea
> that Hitler,
> Stalin and all the rest didn't start out as full
> grown menaces. They
> worked up to it.
>
>>
...The same ones also seem to forget that Hitler was
elected...
>>
>
> > Rule of Filking #315: Never sign "Flanders" in a
> room filled with veterns
> > and nuclear weapons designers.
>
> Rule of gaming #XX23: Never run campaign that lets
> the characters "be
> themselves, transported to the game world" if they
> are science or
> engineering types, and *especially* not if they are
> budding polymaths.
>
> I was one of the players who terrified a DM that
> made that mistake. I
> started out by reciting *from memory* not merely how
> to make gunpowder,
> but how to procure and refine the ingredients. I
> also told him how I'd
> make money by supplying the local miners with
> "explosion proof" lamps.
>
> When he wanted to know where I'd get the copper
> screening, I told him
> I'd visit the local weavers guild and order "cloth
> of copper" gauze. :-)
>
> When he ended the campaign I was working on
> producing phosgene, and
> talking with a nuclear physics undergrad about
> building a reactor. <eg>
>
>>
Awwww....Come on! Where's your sense of Adventure?!
I _LIKED_ 'TimeLords'<W>....You should try that with
_my_ game group......
M.A.Cessna
>>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 05:08:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
Re: Rod Basler's comments, snipped for brevity.
<much excellent snippage>
All,
With deference to Doug and Rod, please let me
respond.
Rod, I don't think the Willie McBride-WW2
'confusion' is off-base, given the context; the
question was wars in general. None of us 'sane types',
especially those of us with military service(in
whatever army) _want_ a war (at least, not after we
see our first casualty), but we do recognize the
necessity...the dims don't. That, I think, we can
agree on.
On the 'relative peace' issue, I think it's a
matter of scale: sure, we've had a _LOT_ of warfare
since the end of WW2, but nothing on that
world-cracking scale. Compared tot he alternative, I
think it has been 'relatively' 'peaceful'.....
My $0.02.....
Michael A Cessna
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3365
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3366
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Traveller-digest Thursday, December 7 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3366
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Players as PCs(was: Jodies and other assorted cadences)
Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
Re: Players as PCs(was: Jodies and other assorted cadences)
Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
RE: High velocity ATmissile
Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
RE: MUTANTS!
RE: Red Dwarf
Reactionless "Judder-Drive" Article
"Pocket Empires" and Balkanized Worlds
A random thought
Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
Re: MUTANTS! AIEEE! (was Re: Eyes)
Re: Players as PCs(was: Jodies and other assorted cadences)
Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
Re: Players as PCs(was: Jodies and other assorted cadences)
Re: Deckplans for the big stuff
Re: MUTANTS!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 05:10:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Players as PCs(was: Jodies and other assorted cadences)
>>
All of which are available from your neighborhood
gunshow...oops, was that my 'Out Loud Voice'?....
MAC
>>
- --- "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
wrote:
<snip>
>I showed
> him my personal copies of FM 3-11 Flame Field
> Expedients, FM 5-31
> Boobytraps, and, best of all, FM 31-210 Improvised
> Muntions Handbook.
> --
>
> Douglas E. Berry
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 13:40:24 GMT
From: TML@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)
Subject: Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
"Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> writes:
>If you look closely, the song's verses describe the British military
>experience after WWI. The first verse is WWII. The second describes Korea
>and the other colonioal wars of the Cold War period, the last is a warning
>about the future.
Thanks - I'd certainly missed that, and wondered why the "reply" to a
song about WW1 mentioned the Waffen SS.
For what it's worth, I don't think that "The Green Fields of France"
(which is how I know the song) is pacifist, although it can be
presented as such. It's possible to believe that warfare is a tragic
waste of young people's lives, often caused by political incompetence
and failure, and still accept that sometimes, the *alternative* to war
is a far worse evil. There's a cartoon from 1945 (I think by Zec)
which shows a wounded veteran emerging from rubble and handing a
laurel wreath marked "victory and peace in Europe" to the Allies,
with the caption "Here you are. Don't lose it again." That pretty
much sums up my views (speaking as someone from the moderate Left in
British terms, which probably puts me off the far end of the liberal
scale in US terms ;-) )
Willie McBride probably wouldn't have believed all that, though - he
would have been brought up to think that war was a glorious adventure,
something to be *enthusiastic* about. Some of the poetry and songs
from the pre-1916 era are pretty chilling from this perspective - take
Rupert Brooke's "Peace", for example ("Now God be thanked who has
matched us with His Hour") or the opening verse of "I vow to thee, my
country" ("The love that asks no questions, the love that stands the
test; that lays upon the altar the brightest and the best.")
ObTrav: People from the frontiers of the Imperium probably have a
realistic view of what warfare really means; those from the Core will
only have read about it or seen it in films. Will they have a horror
of war and think it should be avoided at all costs, even if it is
necessary; or will they subscribe to the romantic adventure view?
(At least until the Rebellion brutally disabuses them of the notion
that war is glorious).
Stephen
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 09:20:44 -0500
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: Players as PCs(was: Jodies and other assorted cadences)
At 06:26 PM 12/06/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>on 12/6/00 4:44 PM, Rupert Boleyn at rboleyn@paradise.net.nz wrote:
>
> > I remember in a similar game (in a post holocaust style setting)
> upsetting the
> > GM considerably doing the same thing, and then setting up a corning
> plant to
> > make nice, stable and slower burning corned powder. A friend designed
> the case
> > and primer manufacturing plant, and I did some sketches for a
> submachinegun. A
> > quote from the GM "I think it's obscene that there are people around
> that know
> > so much about guns and killing things." I think the LAWs and ballon
> launched
> > glider bombs were the final straw :)
> >
>
>Played in a game like that. Silly GM. Our characters started with what
>possesions we personally had on our persons at the beginning of the game.
>With my old game group, that meant not only the usual junk, but as most of
>us had carry permits and were habitually armed, three handguns got added to
>the mix.
We had a similar game, except we did it using Timelords. The "Matrix" that
transports you through time and space takes everything within 10 feet of
where it is activated. I was sitting against the wall and the matrix was
in my hand. On the *other* side of the wall was the gun safe and ammo
chest. After we arrived at our destination, the GM, rather smugly I might
add, told us the only things we had were those that were within the radius
of the Matrix' field. The picture was priceless when we led him to the
room behind where I was sitting and the safe was opened.
I think he had an on the spot conversion to "Killer GM" at that moment.
Kurt Feltenberger
"To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,
may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"
~Stephen Decatur
mailto:kurt@blazenet.net
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 06:25:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
Someone mentioned a poem written in reply to A.E. Houseman's "Epitaph
on an Army of Mercenaries." The latter is one of my favorite poems and
I'd love to see related works.
These in the day when heaven was falling
The hour when Earth's foundations fled
Followed their mercenary calling
Took their wages and are dead.
Their shoulders held the sky suspended
They stood, and Earth's foundations stay.
What God abandoned these defended
And saved the sum of things for pay.
"Epitaph" was written in reply to a disparaging remark by the Kaiser
that the British army was an "army of mercenaries."
I do not see this work as glorifying war so much as paying respect to
those who held the line during the darkest days of the Great War -- the
folks who prevented Kaiser Bill's forces from sweeping through to Paris
and ending the war tout de suite.
=====
Gerry Harris
**********************************************************************************************
Æther Traveller — http://www.aethertraveller.com
Soldier's Companion — http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html
**********************************************************************************************
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war" — Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1
**********************************************************************************************
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 07:36:23 -0800
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: RE: High velocity ATmissile
Patrick Holmstrom wrote:
> Kinetic Anti Tank (KAT) Missile-8 by Dimashq
>
> The KAT missile accelerates a 8 kg heavy depleted uranium penetrator to a
> velocity of 1500 m/s (5400 kph) giving the projectile a impact
> energy of 9
> MJ. With a initial burn time of 1/3 of a second the missile
> accelerates to
> top speed in under 250 meters. A second rocket stage then kicks in to
> sustain this acceleration for 3 seconds (giving a range of 5 km).
>
> FFS2 Pen: 252 (88 cm of hard steel)
>
> Guidance: Laser.
> Wt: 15.56 kg.
> Range: 250 m -> 5 km.
> Time of flight: 3.33 seconds.
> Initial burn: 250 m (0.33 seconds).
> Velocity: 1500 m/s (5400 kph)
> Cost: 1007 Cr.
If we have a penetration of 88 cm of hard steel, that translates into a
Striker penetration of 51, which is still not enough to do serious damage to
most tanks. For example, see Kristian Miller's TL 8 tank design at
http://www.3rd-imperium.com/Military/Mk1AFV.html, which has an armor rating
of 50 on both the chassis and turret front. So this weapon is somewhat
effective at TL 8.
His TL 10 tank at http://www.3rd-imperium.com/Military/ogrekiller.html has
an armor rating of 60 on both the chassis and turret front, so we need a
penetration of 58 to have even a minimal chance of causing any damage (1 in
6 of surface damage, no chance of minor penetration or worse).
At even medium TLs it's really hard to damage tanks. You typically need
either a really big laser, which can usually be easily blocked by prismatic
aerosols, or a big plasma gun. This in turn creates the need for really big
fusion power plants, which then create the need for fairly big vehicles.
I have tried to design vehicles which somewhat match smaller figures, the
Scotia Bradley 4000 models, and run up aginst this problem. It's extremely
hard, perhaps impossible, to design smaller vehicles at higher TLs which are
tactically useful.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 07:22:03
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
At 01:40 PM 12/7/2000 GMT, you wrote:
>For what it's worth, I don't think that "The Green Fields of France"
>(which is how I know the song) is pacifist, although it can be
>presented as such. It's possible to believe that warfare is a tragic
>waste of young people's lives, often caused by political incompetence
>and failure, and still accept that sometimes, the *alternative* to war
>is a far worse evil.
Exactly. But the GFoF dwells on the single sacrifice, and ignores the
larger context. Yes, Willie McBride's death was a tragedy. But he was
part of a larger cause. A big part of being a soldier is accepting that
your death may be pointless in the short view. You may die with the last
shot fired in the war.
>There's a cartoon from 1945 (I think by Zec) which shows a wounded veteran
>emerging from rubble and handing a laurel wreath marked "victory and peace
>in Europe" to the Allies, with the caption "Here you are. Don't lose it
again."
That's Bill Maudlin, if I don't miss my guess. Almost included the
compilation of his wartime stuff _Bill Maudlin's Army_, in the GF
bibliography. Best look at the lives of real soldiers ever pit down on
paper. His cartoon for VE day is a classic. His regular dogfaces, Willie
and Joe are in a foxhole. About thirty feet away, you see a German soldier
peering out of his postion. Willie is saying "Hell with it. I ain't
standing up 'til he stands up."
>Willie McBride probably wouldn't have believed all that, though - he
>would have been brought up to think that war was a glorious adventure,
>something to be *enthusiastic* about. Some of the poetry and songs
>from the pre-1916 era are pretty chilling from this perspective - take
>Rupert Brooke's "Peace", for example ("Now God be thanked who has
>matched us with His Hour") or the opening verse of "I vow to thee, my
>country" ("The love that asks no questions, the love that stands the
>test; that lays upon the altar the brightest and the best.")
And Willie and my 18 year old self would have agreed. I joined the Army
looking for adventure. I got it.
>
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 11:18:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: RE: MUTANTS!
Douglas Berry writes:
>You want mutants?
>I can see a bit further into the UV than most people.
:)
Actually, it would not surprise me if almost 50% of us
can see a bit further into the UV than most people.
There is continuous variation in most traits, and I
wouldn't expect light detection to be any different.
Of course, if you have noticed a difference then you
are probably seeing higher frequencies than perhaps
90%+ of the population.
>I have survived having a blood platelet count of *zero.* (Verified. They
>looked at the sample and didn't see a single cell.)
Sorry, I am in nit-picking mode. Blood platelets are not cells,
strictly speaking, they are more like fragments of cells. They
play a role in plugging small holes in blood vessels. Since we
typically suffer many small ruptures in our blood vessels every
day, lacking plateles would certainly be remarkable. Our
blood usually has about 250 million platelets per ml.
The vast majority of cells in your blood are erythrocytes (red
blood cells or RBC's), making up about 45% of your blood by
volume: about 5 billion per ml. (about 55% is liquid plasma,
while <1% is leukocytes [white blood cells] and platelets).
It typically takes about 120 days to replace all RBC's.
With no cells in your blood, you are dead. Normally, about
98.5% of the oxygen carried by by your blood is carried by
hemoglobin in RBC's. At best, you could expect to carry
about 2% of normal oxygen delivery without RBC's. Robert
O'Connor probably has a better idea of what level is likely
to be fatal, but even a drop of 10% would have serious
consequences, and I would expect a drop of 50% would
usually be fatal. Not only that, your body will not be aware
that not enough oxygen is being delivered. Breathing will
not be affected and the effect will be similar to carbon
monoxide poisoning.
>After having my spleen removed, I grew a splenuclar that is functioning.
>(Yes, I regenerated a major organ.)
That's pretty cool. Is it possible that some fragment of it was
left after the surgery?
>My doctor has asked that when the mother ship comes to get me, he wants a
>few minutes with the medical officer.
Maybe you'll get "written up" in a medical journal. Do we get
autographed copies?
:)
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 15:55:16 -0000
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Red Dwarf
Hee, hee - some of us already know....at least know what Danny and
Craig said last time I saw them.
- --
Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK
Email : mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk
Website : www.mpreston.demon.co.uk
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Rob Myers
> Sent: 06 December 2000 08:56
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: Red Dwarf
>
>
> We won't find out until after the film with Madonna in it
> is released...
>
> - Rob.
>
>
> On Wednesday, December 6, 2000, at 01:14 AM, James Jensen wrote:
>
> > One thing about this show's been bugging me. The last
> non-rerun episode I
> > saw ended up with Rimmer as the sole survivor on the
> ship, which was quickly
> > decaying into nothing. How'd that turn out?
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 10:53:43 -0600
From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" <sdaniels@playnet.com>
Subject: Reactionless "Judder-Drive" Article
http://www.newscientist.com/nlf/1209/wing.html
Discussion at slashdot.
http://slashdot.org/articles/00/12/07/0435211.shtml
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 12:00:25 -0500 (EST)
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
Subject: "Pocket Empires" and Balkanized Worlds
I've been looking over "Pocket Empires," and it strikes me that its
handling of Balkanized worlds is a little bit sketchy. I suspect that in
the typical "Pocket Empires" campaign this wouldn't really be an issue,
but under certain moderately unusual circumstances, a little more detail
would be helpful. Consider, for instance, a world like our own as it
might be in the not-too-distant future. A substantial fraction of this
world's several billion inhabitants live in nations with both the
technology, and the industrial capability, to build interlanetary
spacecraft. These spacefaring nations have established bases and colonies
on other bodies in the world's star system (and thus, in terms of the
"Pocket Empires" rules, have access to additional Resources). Does each
such nation have its own "class B" starport? Suddenly, jump drive
technology becomes available. Suppose that this world's "spacefaring
nations" are too competitive and suspicious of one another to colonize the
rest of the universe cooperatively. Does each one have to build its own
"class A" starport? If two relatively friendly nations decide to work
together, how should this be modeled, in terms of Resource Unit
contributions? What if two (or more) nations decide to colonize the same
particularly hospitable and/or strategically located planet? It's all
*very* messy, but it's *not* an entirely unlikely situation. Such things
would happen all the time in Vargr and (to a slightly lesser degree) Aslan
space, and what if the Solomani *hadn't* patched over their international
differences before inventing the jump drive?
- J. Raynor
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 14:45:19 -0500
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: A random thought
I was reading several articles about the power shortage and emergencies
being declared in California when I wondered how this compared to
Traveller. One article places California's energy needs at about 30,000 to
40,000 MW (
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/htx/nm/20001206/ts/energy_california_dc_3.html
). This is a lot of power. It supports a population of over 33 million
and the economy of a state who's annual budget is among the top 7 in the
world. Compare this to the reactor output of the Tuscaloosa class cruiser
from GC's site:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/Tuscal.rtf
This ship has an out put of 2,221,000 MW with a one year fuel supply!
With an effectively limitless amount of energy available, I wonder just how
fantastic the worlds of the Traveller universe must really be.
Kurt Feltenberger
"To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,
may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"
~Stephen Decatur
mailto:kurt@blazenet.net
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 11:45:26 -0800
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com>
Subject: Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
>Subject: Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
>
>At 06:29 PM 12/6/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>
<snip>
>If you look closely, the song's verses describe the British military
>experience after WWI. The first verse is WWII. The second describes Korea
>and the other colonioal wars of the Cold War period, the last is a warning
>about the future.
Ahhh...the light is beginning to dawn... Is 'Green Fields of
Flanders' a filk, by any chance? (Checks online for a diskography...) I was
thinking of the song 'No Man's Land' by the Scottish/Australian folksinger
Eric Bogle (He's the one who also wrote 'And the Band Played Waltzing
Matilda', BTW) which could very well be the original source of the tune for
the song you are thinking about. The one I have in mind is most definately
about the 'War to End All Wars." What are the lyrics to 'Flanders'? When I
get home, I'll look up the lyrics to Bogle's song.
Sorry for reacting, but the confusion between WWI and WWII is one of
my pet peeves and probably one of the reasons I got into reenacting in the
first place - the chance to educate the public about one of our 'forgotten
wars'.
Rod Basler, COFIT
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 11:16:57 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
In mail you write:
> --- Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote:
>> <some good stuff snipped>
>>
>> Alas, that bit of history seems to be forgotten by
>> far too many people.
>> I think that most folks don't seem to grasp the idea
>> that Hitler,
>> Stalin and all the rest didn't start out as full
>> grown menaces. They
>> worked up to it.
>>
> >>
> ...The same ones also seem to forget that Hitler was
> elected...
> >>
And that everything done to the Jews, short of the "Final Solution",
was *legal*. The result of a democratically elected government
supported by the majority.
>> > Rule of Filking #315: Never sign "Flanders" in a
>> room filled with veterns
>> > and nuclear weapons designers.
>>
>> Rule of gaming #XX23: Never run campaign that lets
>> the characters "be
>> themselves, transported to the game world" if they
>> are science or
>> engineering types, and *especially* not if they are
>> budding polymaths.
>>
>> I was one of the players who terrified a DM that
>> made that mistake. I
>> started out by reciting *from memory* not merely how
>> to make gunpowder,
>> but how to procure and refine the ingredients. I
>> also told him how I'd
>> make money by supplying the local miners with
>> "explosion proof" lamps.
>>
>> When he wanted to know where I'd get the copper
>> screening, I told him
>> I'd visit the local weavers guild and order "cloth
>> of copper" gauze. :-)
>>
>> When he ended the campaign I was working on
>> producing phosgene, and
>> talking with a nuclear physics undergrad about
>> building a reactor. <eg>
>>
> >>
> Awwww....Come on! Where's your sense of Adventure?!
> I _LIKED_ 'TimeLords'<W>....You should try that with
> _my_ game group......
What's "TimeLords"?
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 11:27:02 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: MUTANTS! AIEEE! (was Re: Eyes)
In mail you write:
> You want mutants?
>
> I can see a bit further into the UV than most people.
>
> I have survived having a blood platelet count of *zero.* (Verified. They
> looked at the sample and didn't see a single cell.)
Not zero. Just very, very close. :-)
> After having my spleen removed, I grew a splenuclar that is functioning.
> (Yes, I regenerated a major organ.)
But not a *vital* organ. :-)
> My doctor has asked that when the mother ship comes to get me, he wants a
> few minutes with the medical officer.
<g>
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 11:33:32 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Players as PCs(was: Jodies and other assorted cadences)
In mail you write:
> on 12/6/00 4:44 PM, Rupert Boleyn at rboleyn@paradise.net.nz wrote:
>
>>> I also told him how I'd
>>> make money by supplying the local miners with "explosion proof" lamps.
>>>> When he wanted to know where I'd get the copper screening, I told him
>>> I'd visit the local weavers guild and order "cloth of copper" gauze. :-)
>>>> When he ended the campaign I was working on producing phosgene
>>
>> Which method were you looking at?
>>
> Please don't post this to the list. Someone might try something stupid.
As you will note from my reply to the above, I'm not that silly/stupid.
I will add that one of the reasons chloroform is a lousy choice to
knock people out is because it can change on it's own to several very
toxic compounds (as if it wasn't toxic enough on its own!).
So don't mess with it.
OBtrav: The PCs use a "well known" (from the media) method of knocking
some one out (chloroform, ether, a "mickey") and discover the hard way
why such aren't used except by amateurs in real life... Because either
folks come out too soon or *die*...
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 11:24:06 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
In mail you write:
>> Rule of gaming #XX23: Never run campaign that lets the characters "be
>> themselves, transported to the game world" if they are science or
>> engineering types, and *especially* not if they are budding polymaths.
>>
>> I was one of the players who terrified a DM that made that mistake. I
>> started out by reciting *from memory* not merely how to make gunpowder,
>> but how to procure and refine the ingredients.
>
> I remember in a similar game (in a post holocaust style setting)
> upsetting the GM considerably doing the same thing, and then setting
> up a corning plant to make nice, stable and slower burning corned
> powder. A friend designed the case and primer manufacturing plant,
> and I did some sketches for a submachinegun. A quote from the GM "I
> think it's obscene that there are people around that know so much
> about guns and killing things." I think the LAWs and ballon launched
> glider bombs were the final straw :)
>
>>I also told him how I'd
>> make money by supplying the local miners with "explosion proof" lamps.
>> > When he wanted to know where I'd get the copper screening, I told him
>> I'd visit the local weavers guild and order "cloth of copper" gauze. :-)
>> > When he ended the campaign I was working on producing phosgene
>
> Which method were you looking at?
It's been a long time, but as I recall, it's rather easy to produce
from chloroform, which isn't that hard to produce. But it's been a
*long* time.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 11:37:45 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Players as PCs(was: Jodies and other assorted cadences)
In mail you write:
> At 06:26 PM 12/6/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>
>>Played in a game like that. Silly GM. Our characters started with what
>>possesions we personally had on our persons at the beginning of the game.
>>With my old game group, that meant not only the usual junk, but as most of
>>us had carry permits and were habitually armed, three handguns got added to
>>the mix.
>
> Been there. After the GM had recovered from reading my DD-214, I showed
DD-214?
> him my personal copies of FM 3-11 Flame Field Expedients, FM 5-31
> Boobytraps, and, best of all, FM 31-210 Improvised Muntions Handbook.
I've got a couple of "interesting" "comic books" the Chinese printed up
to teach things like Geurilla combat. :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 11:40:53 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Deckplans for the big stuff
In mail you write:
> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) writes:
>
>> GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> a "Garden" from Final Fantasy 8, the Yamato/Argo, the Sol Bianca,
>>>> the Bebop (from Cowboy Bebop; if you have not seen this anime, do so),
> the
>>>> Star Leaf (from Gall Force) and its various subsystems,
>>
>>Don't recognize any of these.
>
> Never watched Star Blazers? Good Heavens, man!
Oops, I forgot to trim out the Yamato/Argo.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 11:43:34 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: MUTANTS!
In mail you write:
> Douglas Berry writes:
>>You want mutants?
>>I can see a bit further into the UV than most people.
I forgot to mention that I can hear well into the ultrasound range.
It's probably not a mutation, unless asthma is (asthmatics tend to have
this ability, no idea why)
But I can hear "silent" area alarms. It's been a long time since I used
the tester at OMSI (if they even still have it), but last time I did, I
could hear up to around 30,000 Hz. "Normal" hearing cuts out around
20,000. :-)
This is not an unmitigated blessing. Back in the old days many a
monitor would drive me *nuts* because I could hear the vibrations in
the flyback transformer, while no one else could.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3366
***********************************
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3367
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Traveller-digest Thursday, December 7 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3367
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
An Alternative CharGen Method
Timelords
Re: High velocity ATmissile
Re: Players as PCs(was: Jodies and other assorted cadences)
Re: Timelords
Re: Players as PCs(was: Jodies and other assorted cadences)
Re: MUTANTS!
Jesse DeGraff - CALL ME!
Re: Jesse DeGraff - CALL ME!
RE: High velocity ATmissile
RE: Jodies and other assorted cadences
Re: Jesse DeGraff - CALL ME!
Taking Ship Design Requests....
Re: "Pocket Empires" and Balkanized Worlds
Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
RE: beards
RE: Jesse DeGraff - CALL ME!
RE: Jesse DeGraff - CALL ME!
RE: MUTANTS!
Re: G:T Products
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 14:05:26 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: An Alternative CharGen Method
This came to me last night.
(Jeff: Go ahead and put it in Doing it My Way if you like it)
- --------------------------------------
An Alternative Character Generation System for Classic Traveller
As it stands, unless you use an extended character generation system
(like my own GECGS), your Classic Traveller characters (especially those in
Supplement 4) are going to have very few skills, and even fewer with level
2+. And not everyone like rolling for each year. Or relying solely on J-o-T
to have a broad skill palette.
Also, why do characters have to rely on funds from their previous career?
Shouldn't they have some life savings? And shouldn't nobles have more
wealth?
Here's the answer. It uses only Book 1 and Supplement 4, and generates
more powerful characters without year-by-year detail.
How it Works:
First, roll up the characters UPP. This system provides an alternate UPP,
however. The changes are:
Education: When rolling this, roll 2D-7+Int. It is assumed that those who
are better able to learn will have a better education.
Charisma: A measure of personal magnetism. Roll 2D-7+Soc. Those who have a
higher place in society will have more training in social matters. When
rolling for reactions, roll 2D-7+Cha+other bonuses.
Wealth: A measure of personal funds. Roll 2D-7+Soc. This prevents riff-raff
from having billions of credits. Starting wealth (other than that gained
from a career) is 10^(Wealth/2). If a character's wealth is an odd number,
round down; multiply by 1D+2 afterword.
The new UPP should look like this:
(Str)(Dex)(End)(Int)(Edu)(Soc)-(Cha)(Wea)-(Psi)
After you've done this, enlist in a career as per usual. Each term is
resolved as usual, except that skills are handled differently. Roll an
additional number of times equal to Int/5, rounding down. So a first term
marine with an Int of 11 who gets commissioned but not promoted rolls 5
times for skills.
When a skill roll indicates an increase or decrease in a characteristic,
interpret it as follows:
Strength, Dexterity, and Endurance become Physical, which allows you to
choose to increase or decrease (as indicated) any one of them.
Intelligence and Education become Mental, which allows you to choose to
increase or decrease (as indicated) any one of them.
Social Standing becomes Social, which allows you to choose to increase or
decrease (as indicated) any one of Social Standing, Charisma, or Wealth.
When the character musters out, select a number of 0-level skills for
your character equal to Edu/3, rounding down. You're finished!
- --------------------------------------
So, what do you think?
- -J. Jensen
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 15:25:59 -0500
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Timelords
At 11:16 AM 12/07/2000 -0800, you wrote:
> > Awwww....Come on! Where's your sense of Adventure?!
> > I _LIKED_ 'TimeLords'<W>....You should try that with
> > _my_ game group......
>
>What's "TimeLords"?
In TimeLords you play yourself. It has a set of tests and evaluations so
that you can rate yourself according to the game rules of character
creation. From there, you travel through time, across time lines, and
whatever the GM has in mind. To start out, you have whatever is within 10
feet of the "Matrix", the device that transports you across time and space.
It's an interesting diversion for a couple game sessions, but can get
tiring if played too long, IMO.
Kurt Feltenberger
"To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,
may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"
~Stephen Decatur
mailto:kurt@blazenet.net
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 21:37:21 +0100
From: "Patrik Holmström" <glappkaeft@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: High velocity ATmissile
Luther Martin wrote:
>If we have a penetration of 88 cm of hard steel, that translates into a
>Striker penetration of 51, which is still not enough to do serious >damage
>to most tanks. For example, see Kristian Miller's TL 8 tank >design at
>http://www.3rd-imperium.com/Military/Mk1AFV.html, which has >an armor
>rating of 50 on both the chassis and turret front. So this >weapon is
>somewhat effective at TL 8.
>
>His TL 10 tank at http://www.3rd-imperium.com/Military/ogrekiller.html >has
>an armor rating of 60 on both the chassis and turret front, so we >need a
>penetration of 58 to have even a minimal chance of causing any >damage (1
>in 6 of surface damage, no chance of minor penetration or >worse).
If you could use a TL10 penetrator in the missile it would get a penetration
of 378 (132 cm hard steel) with the rest of the stats the same. Would that
help?
Patrik
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 20:53 +0000 (GMT)
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
Subject: Re: Players as PCs(was: Jodies and other assorted cadences)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.16.20001206192312.46afc2ce@pop.mindspring.com>
Greetings dear hearts.
Funnily enough... turns head and sees copy of 'FM 31-210 Improvised
Muntions Handbook' (next to some British Army manuals I'm not certain I
really ought to still have copies of...).
Hugs and kisses,
Mexal.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 13:10:29 -0800
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: Timelords
on 12/7/00 12:25 PM, Kurt Feltenberger at kurt@blazenet.net wrote:
> In TimeLords you play yourself. It has a set of tests and evaluations so
> that you can rate yourself according to the game rules of character
> creation. From there, you travel through time, across time lines, and
> whatever the GM has in mind. To start out, you have whatever is within 10
> feet of the "Matrix", the device that transports you across time and space.
Hmmm. I'm Ready. I'm sitting in my library, and within 10 feet are
numerous bookshelves, my gun safe and a variety of other stuff.
Out of curiosity, I've ordered the rules from BTRC. Have to see how I come
out as a character.
Tod
- --
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend"
- --
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.solsec.org
http://www.grandsurvey.com
http://travellerguns.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 13:10:15 -0800
From: "Pronto" <pronto_r031@telus.net>
Subject: Re: Players as PCs(was: Jodies and other assorted cadences)
> Greetings dear hearts.
>
> Funnily enough... turns head and sees copy of 'FM 31-210 Improvised
> Muntions Handbook' (next to some British Army manuals I'm not certain I
> really ought to still have copies of...).
>
> Hugs and kisses,
>
> Mexal.
>
Oh goodness....
From where I'm sitting :
TM 31-210 Improvised Munitions Handbook
FM 5-25 Explosives and Demolitions
FM 5-31 Boobytraps
Best sellers one and all.
Pronto
AKA Brian Taylor
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 13:23:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: MUTANTS!
> Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 11:18:12 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
> Subject: RE: MUTANTS!
>
> Douglas Berry writes:
> >You want mutants?
> >I can see a bit further into the UV than most people.
>
> Actually, it would not surprise me if almost 50% of us
> can see a bit further into the UV than most people.
Just to show mutations run in families, I can see quite a bit further into
UV than most people. Only with my right eye, though -- and I cheated,
since it's the result of surgery. Alas, I'm also legally blind in that
one, so my resolution sucks. Basically, I can tell when a blacklight is
on nearby before normals notice. Some superpower. :)
> >After having my spleen removed, I grew a splenuclar that is functioning.
> >(Yes, I regenerated a major organ.)
When Douglas told us he was going to have his spleen removed, my immediate
reaction was "Oh my god no! That would mean...um, what is it the spleen
does, again?" (I found out quickly, of course, but it was a weird moment
of panic turning instantly to confusion.)
> >My doctor has asked that when the mother ship comes to get me, he wants a
> >few minutes with the medical officer.
>
> Maybe you'll get "written up" in a medical journal. Do we get
> autographed copies?
Shouldn't you post that url, Douglas? :)
- --
| Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
--*-- "The hills are burning, and the wind is raging; and the clock
| strikes midnight in the Garden of Allah." - Don Henley
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 14:30:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Cook <markc@peak.org>
Subject: Jesse DeGraff - CALL ME!
Jesse, sorry to waste TML bandwidth, but I lost your current e-amil
address. Please call me ASAP regarding the full-auto shoot this
weekend. My cell phone number is 541-740-5633.
On a separate note to Tod and Leonard, I expect to see you guys there
this time. It's only 85 miles from Portland to Albany. (Call or
e-mail me for directions to the range.)
- Mark C.
Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
mark f. cook * shoestring graphics & printing * markc@ssgfx.com
7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330 * http://www.ssgfx.com
Phone: 541-745-5709 Fax: 541-745-5818
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
64,999,987 firearm owners killed no one yesterday.
Somehow, it didn't make the news.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 16:38:43 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Jesse DeGraff - CALL ME!
> 64,999,987 firearm owners killed no one yesterday.
> Somehow, it didn't make the news.
SPLORT!
Congrats. You've got my first keyboard kill.
- -J. Jensen
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 15:06:15 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: High velocity ATmissile
>From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
>At even medium TLs it's really hard to damage tanks. You typically need
>either a really big laser, which can usually be easily blocked by prismatic
>aerosols, or a big plasma gun. This in turn creates the need for really big
>fusion power plants, which then create the need for fairly big vehicles.
>
>I have tried to design vehicles which somewhat match smaller figures, the
>Scotia Bradley 4000 models, and run up aginst this problem. It's extremely
>hard, perhaps impossible, to design smaller vehicles at higher TLs which
are
>tactically useful.
How big is big? My TL 10 Myrmidon Mark 2 is 11m long, 5m wide, 2.5m high.
The miniature is 1/300, so it's just under 4cm long. Sporting a plasma gun
with penetration at effective range of 74, front armor of 60 (other faces in
the high 40s), and having a top NOE speed limited only by avionics, it
appears to be quite tactically useful (as your flying saucers and Ming's
secret police found out). I had considered reinterpreting my HO (1/87 or
so) tanks as 1/300 and doing Striker designs, but under the Striker vehicle
hit rules, that just makes them cost-effective targets.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 18:46:18 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: RE: Jodies and other assorted cadences
Michael Cessna wrote:
>...The same ones also seem to forget that Hitler was elected...
When Hitler ran against Hindenburg in 1932, he got 30% of the Presidential
vote.
In the beginning of 1933 he was appointed, not elected, to the
Chancellorship. Hitler then proceeded to manipulate the worsening situation
in Germany to his advantage. Göring ended up at the helm of the Prussian
police force, and he issued explicit orders to those under his command that
they were not to interfere with the Nazi thugs who were terrorizing and
killing political enemies in the streets. Eventually, Göring would up the
ante and swell the ranks of the police with Hitler's supporters and issue
orders which told the police to use their power to eliminate Hitler's
enemies.
Hitler gained more and more power as Chancellor through a series of
brilliant and brutal political maneuvers, all the while literally destroying
his opposition. In the March elections, the Nazi party didn't end up with
the majority that they hoped for in the Reichstag. That didn't matter much.
Later the same month, with Nazi brown-shirts outside the Kroll Opera House
surrounding it (shouting that they would murder and loot if things didn't go
their way), and inside lining the aisles, the Enabling Act was passed by the
members of the Reichstag. The enabling act dissolved the republic and
instituted a dicatorship with Adolph Hitler at the helm.
So, that was Hitler's "election". During the preceding two months, Hitler's
cronies were given increasingly broad powers to stamp out the political
enemies of the Nazi party. During this time, enemies were harassed,
arrested, tortured and murdered. After the March 5th elections, low-ranking,
democratically elected officials were simply pulled out of office by force
and replaced with appointed officials selected from the ranks of the Nazi
party.
So, while it is barely possible to say that Hitler was "elected", it's also
important to point out the conditions under which he rose from appointed
Chancellor to "elected" Führer. The event was an election in name only.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 16:02:04 -0800
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: Jesse DeGraff - CALL ME!
After spending last night making MG belts, I WILL be there. Looking forward
to meeting you, Leonard and Jesse.
Tod
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Cook" <markc@peak.org>
To: "Traveller Mail List" <traveller@ient.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 2:30 PM
Subject: Jesse DeGraff - CALL ME!
> Jesse, sorry to waste TML bandwidth, but I lost your current e-amil
> address. Please call me ASAP regarding the full-auto shoot this
> weekend. My cell phone number is 541-740-5633.
>
> On a separate note to Tod and Leonard, I expect to see you guys there
> this time. It's only 85 miles from Portland to Albany. (Call or
> e-mail me for directions to the range.)
>
> - Mark C.
> Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> mark f. cook * shoestring graphics & printing * markc@ssgfx.com
> 7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330 * http://www.ssgfx.com
> Phone: 541-745-5709 Fax: 541-745-5818
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 64,999,987 firearm owners killed no one yesterday.
> Somehow, it didn't make the news.
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 00:02:07 -0000
From: "Peter Scarrott" <peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Taking Ship Design Requests....
To follow up a comment I made in passing, re: Black Zone stars and possibly
not being accessible by Jump Drive, anyone worked on any HiTech STL
starships? Possibly a 'different' project for you.
- -------------Original message--------------
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 00:14:49 -0600
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Taking Ship Design Requests....
As the end of the semester approaches, I find myself anticipating some
free time. With that in mind, are there any requests for starship
designs from AuricTech Shipyards (using FF&S2)?
I'll probably post a couple of designs over the next month or so anyway,
but I'd be quite willing to entertain requests at this time.
- - --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
- --------------end original--------------------
Peter
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk (Trav & AD&D)
peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
IMTU: tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and
miss.
Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love (By Robert.Heinlan)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 09:35:27 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: "Pocket Empires" and Balkanized Worlds
> From: "John P. Raynor"
> I've been looking over "Pocket Empires," and it strikes me that its
> handling of Balkanized worlds is a little bit sketchy. I suspect that in
> the typical "Pocket Empires" campaign this wouldn't really be an issue,
> but under certain moderately unusual circumstances, a little more detail
> would be helpful.
This is an interesting case.
It's actually quite likely that a PE might emerge from a Balkanised world.
In fact, it is quite likely that the territory of each nation/faction would
be intermixed. In some cases, they might even have separate colonies on
the same world. (See 2300AD for more details).
Where possible, I would treat each nation/national colony as a separate
world. "NPC" balkanised worlds probably don't deserve this.
A really interesting case would be if a set of (player-run) PEs from a
balkanised world runs into an threatening "outside" (probably non-player)
PE. Then they have to go through all the drama of trying to form a united
front with their hereditary enemies...
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 09:15:19 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
> From: Rodney Basler
> Ahhh...the light is beginning to dawn... Is 'Green Fields of
> Flanders' a filk, by any chance? (Checks online for a diskography...) I
> was thinking of the song 'No Man's Land' by the Scottish/Australian
> folksinger Eric Bogle (He's the one who also wrote 'And the Band Played
> Waltzing Matilda', BTW) which could very well be the original source of
> the tune for the song you are thinking about. The one I have in mind is
> most definately about the 'War to End All Wars." What are the lyrics to
> 'Flanders'? When I get home, I'll look up the lyrics to Bogle's song.
It does sound like there is some sort of connection with the Bogle song.
FWIW, Bogle's stuff is played regularly at one of my favourite pubs (they
pour the Guinness properly). The audience generally contains lots of
military veterans, and often the musicians are too.
Other anti-war stuff tends to get played too. But other stuff gets played
as well. Irish republican songs. (I mentioned that they pour Guinness
properly in this pub, didn't I?) These aren't particularly pacifist songs.
It's funny listening to British army veterans singing songs supporting the
IRA. :)
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 09:27:45 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
> From: Gerry Harris
> I do not see this work as glorifying war so much as paying respect to
> those who held the line during the darkest days of the Great War -- the
> folks who prevented Kaiser Bill's forces from sweeping through to Paris
> and ending the war tout de suite.
The German forces swept through to Paris in 1870 and nothing much happened.
The real tragedy of 1914 was the Social Democratic parties rolling over.
They had spent decades assuring each other that they would oppose a war
between their countries, but when it came to the crunch, they almost all
suddenly became patriots.
They were, of course, the only people that could have stopped the war.
They might have had to start civil wars to do it, but they could have done
it.
The Labor Party in Australia started off as just another bunch of patriotic
traitors, but after the rebellion in Ireland at Easter 1916, an increasing
proportion started adopting anti-war positions. Eventually the Prime
Minister was forced to defect from the Labor Party to the conservatives.
OBTRAV: Oh come on, there's a scenario there somewhere...
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 00:23:11 -0000
From: "Peter Scarrott" <peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: RE: beards
1. Beard - I wish, can't grow even a goatee.
2. "heavy" - Overweight, definitely, not as bad as I was but not fighting
trim by any means..
3. Glasses - Yea or contact lenses
4. Bald - Since I was 16yrs old.
Peter
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk (Trav & AD&D)
peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
IMTU: tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and
miss.
Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love (By Robert.Heinlan)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 16:45:54 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: Jesse DeGraff - CALL ME!
Mark just reassured me that his HK21 is runnin' sweet and true again
(finally ;) It's been down the last two times I went up. If you're
wonderin' what an HK21 is, check out this page :)
http://vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/shooting/
Can't wait to meet you guys and have fun blowing away plywood Triceratopses
& tanks, ballons, & water jugs with you :)
Best,
Jesse
"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Tod Glenn
> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 4:02 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: Jesse DeGraff - CALL ME!
>
>
> After spending last night making MG belts, I WILL be there.
> Looking forward
> to meeting you, Leonard and Jesse.
>
> Tod
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Cook" <markc@peak.org>
> To: "Traveller Mail List" <traveller@ient.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 2:30 PM
> Subject: Jesse DeGraff - CALL ME!
>
>
> > Jesse, sorry to waste TML bandwidth, but I lost your current e-amil
> > address. Please call me ASAP regarding the full-auto shoot this
> > weekend. My cell phone number is 541-740-5633.
> >
> > On a separate note to Tod and Leonard, I expect to see you guys there
> > this time. It's only 85 miles from Portland to Albany. (Call or
> > e-mail me for directions to the range.)
> >
> > - Mark C.
> > Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > mark f. cook * shoestring graphics & printing * markc@ssgfx.com
> > 7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330 * http://www.ssgfx.com
> > Phone: 541-745-5709 Fax: 541-745-5818
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 64,999,987 firearm owners killed no one yesterday.
> > Somehow, it didn't make the news.
> >
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 16:52:03 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: Jesse DeGraff - CALL ME!
BTW, so you know who to come up and say "Hi!" to, click on the Dec'99 shoot
and you can see pictures of Mark, his wife Lori, and I.
See ya'!!!!
Jesse
"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Tod Glenn
> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 4:02 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: Jesse DeGraff - CALL ME!
>
>
> After spending last night making MG belts, I WILL be there.
> Looking forward
> to meeting you, Leonard and Jesse.
>
> Tod
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Cook" <markc@peak.org>
> To: "Traveller Mail List" <traveller@ient.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 2:30 PM
> Subject: Jesse DeGraff - CALL ME!
>
>
> > Jesse, sorry to waste TML bandwidth, but I lost your current e-amil
> > address. Please call me ASAP regarding the full-auto shoot this
> > weekend. My cell phone number is 541-740-5633.
> >
> > On a separate note to Tod and Leonard, I expect to see you guys there
> > this time. It's only 85 miles from Portland to Albany. (Call or
> > e-mail me for directions to the range.)
> >
> > - Mark C.
> > Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > mark f. cook * shoestring graphics & printing * markc@ssgfx.com
> > 7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330 * http://www.ssgfx.com
> > Phone: 541-745-5709 Fax: 541-745-5818
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 64,999,987 firearm owners killed no one yesterday.
> > Somehow, it didn't make the news.
> >
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 17:04:13
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: MUTANTS!
At 11:18 AM 12/7/2000 -0400, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry writes:
>>You want mutants?
>>I have survived having a blood platelet count of *zero.* (Verified. They
>>looked at the sample and didn't see a single cell.)
>
> Sorry, I am in nit-picking mode. Blood platelets are not cells,
> strictly speaking, they are more like fragments of cells. They
> play a role in plugging small holes in blood vessels. Since we
> typically suffer many small ruptures in our blood vessels every
> day, lacking plateles would certainly be remarkable. Our
> blood usually has about 250 million platelets per ml.
Trust me my doctor, his collegues, and every phlebotomist in the building
was amazed. They did wonder why I was wasn't a pulsating mass of bruises,
or for that mattetr still breathing.
>>After having my spleen removed, I grew a splenuclar that is functioning.
>>(Yes, I regenerated a major organ.)
>
> That's pretty cool. Is it possible that some fragment of it was
> left after the surgery?
A small one, but according to my surgeon (you know you've had cancer too
long when you have a personal surgeon) it shouldn't have grown back, and
certainly not started working again.
>>My doctor has asked that when the mother ship comes to get me, he wants a
>>few minutes with the medical officer.
>
> Maybe you'll get "written up" in a medical journal. Do we get
> autographed copies?
> :)
Way ahead of you there:
http://www-med.stanford.edu/medworld/features/cases/li.html
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 17:47:30 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: G:T Products
At 4:06 PM +1300 11/26/00, Rupert Boleyn wrote:
>On 24 Nov 2000, at 20:55, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
>
> > Keep in mind that GT is GURPS first and Traveller second. First
> > In's system gen system is probably more accurate, but it is GURPS
> > Space oriented rather than Traveller. Useful, but no a WBH
> > replacement...IMO.
> >
> > Far Trader is also useful, but you have to do a lot of converting to
> > get it to interface with other versions of Traveller rules. That's
> > not surprising.
>
>That wouldn't be a problem, as if I were to run a Trav game with GT I'd build
>all the details with GT stuff. The big question becomes whether it's worth the
>bother, or would it be less hastle to do something I've been meaning to for a
>long time and do a decent 2300AD to GURPS conversion.
I've seen 2300AD GURPS games mentioned. I don't remember
where. You might post a question on the GURPS mailing list....
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net. My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3367
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3368
Date: | 12/8/00 2:58:13 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Friday, December 8 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3368
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Players as PCs
Re: Full auto shoot
Re: Mr Hilter and Mr Bimmler
Theme Song for the Long Night
Re: Players as PCs(was: Jodies and other assorted cadences)
Re: Players as PCs(was: Jodies and other assorted cadences)
Re: Timellords
RE: Full auto shoot
Re: Full auto shoot
RE: High velocity ATmissile
RE: Full auto shoot
RE: MUTANTS!
Re: MUTANTS!
Ground Forces
Nature of Imperial War (Slight Return) (longish)
RE: High velocity ATmissile
Re: Players as PCs(was: Jodies and other assorted cadences)
Re : Mutants!
Lord of the Rings photo
Re: Players as PCs(was: Jodies and other assorted cadences)
Silly adventure idea
Re: Players as PCs(was: Jodies and other assorted cadences)
Re: A random thought
Re: An Alternative CharGen Method
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 20:56:36 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Players as PCs
I did one of these once.
Players were transported to Bavaria. In 1648.
They ended up in jail within days . . . : ) Campaign fell apart because
of lack of time
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 21:05:43 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Full auto shoot
> Please call me ASAP regarding the full-auto shoot this
> weekend.
You're photographing _all_ of a car -- not just part of it?
: )
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 21:08:17 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Mr Hilter and Mr Bimmler
In a message dated 07-Dec-00 7:50:38 PM Central Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:
> So, while it is barely possible to say that Hitler was "elected", it's also
> important to point out the conditions under which he rose from appointed
> Chancellor to "elected" Führer. The event was an election in name only.
"Hitler, having ended unemployment in Germany, proceeded to end it for his
enemies as well . . ."
-- John Kenneth Galbraith (I think)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 20:13:51 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Theme Song for the Long Night
Here's a little diddy I came up with (I personally find the word "filk"
distateful).
Tell me what you think.
- -----------------------------------------------
THEME SONG FOR THE LONG NIGHT
(Sung to the tune of the theme from Red Dwarf)
It's dark outside;
There's no kind of emporer,
We're all alone,
More or less;
Let me jump
Far away from here;
(Chorus)
Fun, fun, fun,
In the suns, suns, suns;
(/Chorus)
(Repeat Chorus)
The Rule of Man,
Is bankrupt and powerless
To stop the horde
Of pirate ships;
The Long, Long Night
Has fallen on the worlds;
(Repeat Chorus)
(Repeat Chrous)
- -----------------------------------------------
Yes, I know that the LN wasn't fun for the people (er, characters) who lived
there, but it is for players!
- -J. Jensen
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 17:28:18
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Players as PCs(was: Jodies and other assorted cadences)
At 11:37 AM 12/7/2000 PST, you wrote:
>In mail you write:
>> Been there. After the GM had recovered from reading my DD-214, I showed
>
>DD-214?
The form you get we you get out. It lists everything you did ion the
service, schools, awards, etc.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 15:00:43 +1000
From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au
Subject: Re: Players as PCs(was: Jodies and other assorted cadences)
"Pronto" <pronto_r031@telus.net>
wrote:
>Oh goodness....
> From where I'm sitting :
>TM 31-210 Improvised Munitions Handbook
>FM 5-25 Explosives and Demolitions
>FM 5-31 Boobytraps
Ah! The -OTHER- infamous little black books.
(I still remember being fortunate enough to read Volume II, that one of
my gaming group had bought (just before the government banned their import).)
Graeme
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 22:42:44 -0600
From: "Shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Timellords
we had a new GM join our gaming group at ISU, who at one point
decided to run timelords, and ended up with a good sized party.
he had plans to dump us in a medieval world to fend for ourselves,
figuring we'd be way out of our element.
he started regretting this decision about 2 hours later, after finding
out over half the group had spent time in the SCA, and most of the
rest had a good history backround. while the SCA isnt perfect for
accuracy... etc, knowing how to do things like make leather or
chainmail, read heraldry, and other things came in really handy,
along with knowing how to use a sword and shield.
the campaign actually lasted about 6 months, by which time we
were debating whether or not we could pull off what Lord Kalvan did.
we might have succeeded
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 20:40:13 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: Full auto shoot
Ya' completely lost me there Loren....
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of GDWGAMES@aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 6:06 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: Full auto shoot
>
>
> > Please call me ASAP regarding the full-auto shoot this
> > weekend.
>
> You're photographing _all_ of a car -- not just part of it?
>
> : )
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 23:31:01 -0600
From: Brandon Cope <copeab@elc.net>
Subject: Re: Full auto shoot
Jesse DeGraff wrote:
> Ya' completely lost me there Loren....
shoot: photography session
full-auto: complete automobile
> >
> > > Please call me ASAP regarding the full-auto shoot this
> > > weekend.
> >
> > You're photographing _all_ of a car -- not just part of it?
> >
> > : )
Brandon
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 21:36:35 -0800
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: RE: High velocity ATmissile
Patrick Holmstrom wrote:
> If you could use a TL10 penetrator in the missile it would get a
> penetration
> of 378 (132 cm hard steel) with the rest of the stats the same.
> Would that
> help?
Let's see... That's equivalent to a Striker penetration of 55. It's still
probably not enough to be very useful. An odd side-effect of the Striker
design system is that it's much easier to make a vehicle which can't be hurt
than to make a weapon which can hurt most vehicles.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 21:28:30 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: Full auto shoot
"Light dawns on Marble Head".
***DOH!!!!*** <embarassed grin>
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Brandon Cope
> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 9:31 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: Full auto shoot
>
>
> Jesse DeGraff wrote:
>
> > Ya' completely lost me there Loren....
>
> shoot: photography session
> full-auto: complete automobile
>
> > >
> > > > Please call me ASAP regarding the full-auto shoot this
> > > > weekend.
> > >
> > > You're photographing _all_ of a car -- not just part of it?
> > >
> > > : )
>
> Brandon
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 16:56:17 +1100
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: RE: MUTANTS!
Dear Folks -
Doug explained:
>>>I have survived having a blood platelet count of *zero.* (Verified.
They
>>>looked at the sample and didn't see a single cell.)
>>
>> Sorry, I am in nit-picking mode. Blood platelets are not cells,
[snip]
>
>Trust me my doctor, his collegues, and every phlebotomist in the building
>was amazed. They did wonder why I was wasn't a pulsating mass of bruises,
>or for that mattetr still breathing.
You have to remember that this is where a classic Doug Berry quote comes
from:
Doctor, looking through microscope: "So, what planet do you come
from?"
Doug, straight-faced: "Vland".
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 08:09:19 +0200 (EET)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: Re: MUTANTS!
On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> In mail you write:
> > Douglas Berry writes:
> >>You want mutants?
> >>I can see a bit further into the UV than most people.
> I forgot to mention that I can hear well into the ultrasound range.
> It's probably not a mutation, unless asthma is (asthmatics tend to have
> this ability, no idea why)
This is something I envy. My right ear detects sounds up to 12 kHz,
left a bit higher.
I blame sensitive ears and too loud music. I just fear when I will
be completely deaf. (I'm 24.)
- --
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 08:23:25 +0200 (EET)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: Ground Forces
Hi!
I paged through the book in a store yesterday and it was good.
One slight point made me laugh, though.
(This one could be attributed to the very long time between today and far
future).
There is an example of a soldier by name "Pekka Virta". Both first and
surname are regular Finnish name. There is one slight but : "Pekka" is
very common _male_ name, but the Ground Forces person is female. B-)
Not that it couldn't change, but I thought this was fun, and perhaps
unintentional.
I use Onomastikon (http://www.flick.com/onomastikon/ ) to avoid these
blunders.
Doug, no offense meant, even if the effect was intentional. B-)
- --
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 01:22:01 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Nature of Imperial War (Slight Return) (longish)
If you want to get to the meat of this post, scroll down past the initial
off-topic bit.
Stephen Tempest wrote:
<snip>
>Willie McBride probably wouldn't have believed all that, though - he
>would have been brought up to think that war was a glorious adventure,
>something to be *enthusiastic* about.
<snip>
Alternately, if Willie's name and nationality match up, his decision to
join up and fight might have been a political one. He may have answered John
Redmond's call to support the British war effort in order to earn Home Rule.
Although Home Rule had technically already been passed into law in 1914, it
was suspended for the duration of the war or a year, whichever was longer.
With that being said, even if he did believe that the war would be a
glorious adventure, his opinion might very well have changed rather quickly.
As has been commented on by just about every historian who has seriously
studied the war, the very word "war" had an entirely different meaning
before the Great War than it did after.
>ObTrav: People from the frontiers of the Imperium probably have a
>realistic view of what warfare really means; those from the Core will
>only have read about it or seen it in films. Will they have a horror
>of war and think it should be avoided at all costs, even if it is
>necessary; or will they subscribe to the romantic adventure view?
>(At least until the Rebellion brutally disabuses them of the notion
>that war is glorious).
I've commented on something like this before, at much greater length (and
at a much later hour in the evening, as a result my post was a bit fuzzy at
points). Basically, I think that the Traveller setting works best with a
pre-Great War definition of war. Let me see if I can find my original post
to see where I took my little essay so I can summarize some of the more
important points.
Ah! Here we go.
I had just finished a long, off-topic post on the Lusitania sinking. In the
post, I had pointed out that submarine technology had rendered the old rules
of naval warfare obsolete. In a much more general sense, the reality of the
Great War and the ideals and beliefs encoded in the old rules of warfare
were disconnected from each other. The nations involved had these really
massive militaries, and as the war went on, the entire industrial and
economic might of many of the nations involved got pumped into the war
effort. Entire populations, fueled by the new ideology of nationalism, ended
up involved in the war in some way or another. In short, the world was
introduced to the concept of "total war".
At the same time, I had been chugging through Eric Hobsbawm's excellent
"The Age of Extremes: A History of the World, 1914 - 1991". His primary area
of scholarship basically boils down to the 19th century, when wars were
quite different. Here's the specific passage which really got my juices
flowing:
"...Nevertheless, before the twentieth century, wars embracing all society
were exceptional. Jane Austen wrote her novels during the Napoleonic wars,
but no reader who did not know this already would guess it, for the wars do
not appear in her pages, even though a number of the young gentleman who
pass through them undoubtedly took part in them. It is inconceivable that
any novelist could write about Britain in the twentieth-century wars in this
manner." (Hobsbawm, 44)
This comment really blew me away. I had read the oft-repeated mantra that
wars were different in the 19th century, but I had never actually felt it in
my gut. This point was hammered home when he compared the production of
munitions during the Napoleonic wars and the production of munitions during
the Great War. In the former, a much smaller segment of the population was
involved in war-production than the latter. Interesting stuff.
As a result, I started thinking of a different paradigm for the way war is
viewed within the Imperium. Fortunately, Hobsbawm helped me out again:
"Wars conducted on both sides by professionals, or specialists, especially
those of similar social standing, do not exclude mutual respect and
acceptance of rules, or even chivalry. Violence has its rules. This was
still evident among fighter pilots in air forces in both wars, as witness
Jean Renoir's pacifist film about the First World War, 'La Grande Illusion'.
Professionals of politics and diplomacy, when untrammeled by the demands of
votes or newspapers, can declare war or negotiate peace with no hard
feelings about the other side, like boxers who shake hands before they come
out fighting, and drink with each other after the fight."(Hobsbawm, since
I'm quoting from a previous post, I don't have the page number handy)
I stopped thinking of the Imperial rules of warfare as a reason for the
Imperium to use a "big stick", but instead as a set of rules which
mercenaries on both sides of a conflict are willing and choose to abide by.
Mercs play by the rules not because they're afraid of getting smacked around
by the Imperium, but because not playing by the rules would be unsporting
and uncivilized and generally in bad taste.
This way of thinking breaks down during, say, the "Rebellion", or any other
total war writ large across the stars. But in my opinion that makes things
much more interesting from a role-playing perspective.
So, to finally get back around to your question (before I begin suffering
from "tired babbling syndrome"), I plan on playing Imperial warfare along
these lines. In such an environment, the Imperium's open support of internal
conflict and mercenary actions seems to be much less distasteful. It
certainly adds a sort of dashing, heroic romanticism to what otherwise would
be very depressing. In my opinion, this view seems to be much more in
keeping with Traveller's "age of sail" feel.
Folks in my Imperium would view war as a glorious adventure, and they'd be
right. Sure, war are dangerous, but it's a gentlemen's game, so to speak. On
the other hand, life on the frontier would certainly be quite different, and
a different type of mercenary would likely be created on the Solomani and
Zhodani borders where "good wars" are less common.
Ach! I'm tired. I think I've covered everything I intended to cover, more
or less.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 22:22:21 -0800
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: RE: High velocity ATmissile
Glenn Goffin wrote:
> How big is big? My TL 10 Myrmidon Mark 2 is 11m long, 5m wide, 2.5m high.
> The miniature is 1/300, so it's just under 4cm long. Sporting a
> plasma gun
> with penetration at effective range of 74, front armor of 60
> (other faces in
> the high 40s), and having a top NOE speed limited only by avionics, it
> appears to be quite tactically useful (as your flying saucers and Ming's
> secret police found out). I had considered reinterpreting my HO (1/87 or
> so) tanks as 1/300 and doing Striker designs, but under the
> Striker vehicle
> hit rules, that just makes them cost-effective targets.
Yes, but I sacrificed my tanks to take out all of the enemy infantry on the
first turn, in a valliant attempt to immediately make it impossible for you
to fulfill your victory condition of "getting a stand of infantry into
Ming's palace." Since my tanks had fairly huge weapons, they could just as
easily taken out the tanks (mainly by virtue of you guys neglecting to
deploy prismatic aerosols).
To get a penetration of 74 you also had to design a *huge* plasma gun. The
generic TL 10 Plasma A weapon has a penetration of only 44 if I recall
correctly. The off-the-shelf weapons aren't very useful.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 19:23:05 +1100
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: Players as PCs(was: Jodies and other assorted cadences)
Leonard Erickson wrote :-
> I will add that one of the reasons chloroform is a lousy choice to
> knock people out is because it can change on it's own to several very
> toxic compounds (as if it wasn't toxic enough on its own!).
>
> So don't mess with it.
I agree. The chloroform soaked hanky trick is potentially lethal ; 50%
of adult humans will be anaesthetised with a partial pressure of 0.47%
of the stuff.
Like all hydrocarbon derived volatiles, it is very irritant to the
heart. The first commission into anaesthesia related deaths, held in
Hyderabad in the 1890s, noted that chloroform was especially good at
causing ventricular fibrillation, especially without supplemental oxygen
and assisted ventilation.
Ether based modern agents are similarly potent ; a good rule of thumb is
that a lethal dose is four times the therapeutic one (the lowest safety
margin in the pharmacopoeia, even considering chemotherapy agents for
cancer).
Once in a while, one hears of hospital orderlies or auxilary staff who
steal bottles of anaesthetic for the purpose of abuse*. They don't tend
to survive long.
Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer
* - last year in Victoria, Oz, the police booked half a dozen drivers
who were injecting intravenous anaesthetic agents behind the wheel (!)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 19:23:54 +1100
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re : Mutants!
Doug Berry wrote :-
(in reply to Ian Ferguson)
>>I have survived having a blood platelet count of *zero.* (Verified. They
>>looked at the sample and didn't see a single cell.)
<snip>
> Trust me my doctor, his collegues, and every phlebotomist in the building
> was amazed. They did wonder why I was wasn't a pulsating mass of bruises,
> or for that mattetr still breathing.
Yep, the risk of spontaneous haemorrhage is high below counts of 20 X
10^9/L - hence it's the usual threshold for platelet transfusion. For
emergency surgery, 50 X 10^9/L ; normal range (95% population interval)
150-450 X 10^9/L.
I wonder if the result was from a sample of peripheral blood ;
functionally, there are a number of kinetically distinct 'compartments',
which can lead to wildly different cell counts depending when and where
you take your sample from.
Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 22:59:34 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: Lord of the Rings photo
I apologize for dumping this on the list, but I promised someone from here
I'd post some pictures of the LOTR Minas Tirith set on my web page, and I
can't remember who it was.
So whoever was interested, there are a couple available at :
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~frankie/html/lotrSet.html
They're not very good, I don't have set access or anything, they're just
shots from the road.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 00:31:45 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Players as PCs(was: Jodies and other assorted cadences)
In mail you write:
> At 11:37 AM 12/7/2000 PST, you wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>
>>> Been there. After the GM had recovered from reading my DD-214, I showed
>>
>>DD-214?
>
> The form you get we you get out. It lists everything you did ion the
> service, schools, awards, etc.
Out of curiousity, do those ever have sections that effectively say
"From MM-DD-YY to MM-DD-YY so-and-so performed his duties well, but we
can't tell you what they were or where he was"?
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 00:33:48 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Silly adventure idea
I just got back from a friend's where we watched her new DVD of the
*original* (1970s) "Gone In 60 Seconds".
It occurs to me that it'd be interesting to try that with, say, air
rafts. Or maybe even ground vehicles. Either with the PCs being the
folks hauling the cargo out of the system, or the ones hired to get
them.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 00:36:58 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Players as PCs(was: Jodies and other assorted cadences)
In mail you write:
> "Pronto" <pronto_r031@telus.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Oh goodness....
>> From where I'm sitting :
>>TM 31-210 Improvised Munitions Handbook
>>FM 5-25 Explosives and Demolitions
>>FM 5-31 Boobytraps
>
>
> Ah! The -OTHER- infamous little black books.
>
>
> (I still remember being fortunate enough to read Volume II, that one of
> my gaming group had bought (just before the government banned their import).)
Check around. I think one of the .gov sites has all the non-classified
ones available as PDF files.
Now that I have a working browser again, I need to see about picking up
a few. Like the 2 unclassified volumes of the 3 volume set on nuclear
weapons. :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 00:39:49 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: A random thought
In mail you write:
> I was reading several articles about the power shortage and emergencies
> being declared in California when I wondered how this compared to
> Traveller. One article places California's energy needs at about 30,000 to
> 40,000 MW (
> http://dailynews.yahoo.com/htx/nm/20001206/ts/energy_california_dc_3.html
> ). This is a lot of power. It supports a population of over 33 million
> and the economy of a state who's annual budget is among the top 7 in the
> world. Compare this to the reactor output of the Tuscaloosa class cruiser
> from GC's site:
>
> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/Tuscal.rtf
>
> This ship has an out put of 2,221,000 MW with a one year fuel supply!
Before you get *too* impressed, check out how much electrical power a
typical cargo ship or military vessel puts out *now*. You'll be rather
surprised.
> With an effectively limitless amount of energy available, I wonder just how
> fantastic the worlds of the Traveller universe must really be.
It's nowhere *near* "effectively limitless". They've got limits just
the same as we do. Theirs are just higher. Much as ours are higher than
the ones folks had to put up with in, say, 1800.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 00:42:55 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: An Alternative CharGen Method
In mail you write:
> Charisma: A measure of personal magnetism. Roll 2D-7+Soc. Those who have a
> higher place in society will have more training in social matters. When
> rolling for reactions, roll 2D-7+Cha+other bonuses.
Charisma *isn't* social skillls.
> Wealth: A measure of personal funds. Roll 2D-7+Soc. This prevents riff-raff
> from having billions of credits.
Riff-raff like Bill Gates? :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3368
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Traveller-digest Friday, December 8 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3369
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Jesse DeGraff - CALL ME!
Re: Timellords
Re: Lord of the Rings photo
Re: Timelords
Re: "Pocket Empires" and Balkanized Worlds
Trav auction- Boxed Adventures and Dumarest novels
RE: Doug (was Re: MUTANTS!)
Re: An Alternative CharGen Method
Re: Ground Forces
Re: Players as PCs(was: Jodies and other assorted cadences)
Re: Re : Mutants!
Early Trav. fanzines 4 sale
The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
Re: Ground Forces
Perhaps Santa needs a Gearhead...
Re: Perhaps Santa needs a Gearhead...
RE: Jesse DeGraff - CALL ME!
Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
re: Ground Forces
RE: High velocity ATmissile
Re: Jesse DeGraff - CALL ME!
Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 00:44:24 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Jesse DeGraff - CALL ME!
In mail you write:
> Jesse, sorry to waste TML bandwidth, but I lost your current e-amil
> address. Please call me ASAP regarding the full-auto shoot this
> weekend. My cell phone number is 541-740-5633.
>
> On a separate note to Tod and Leonard, I expect to see you guys there
> this time. It's only 85 miles from Portland to Albany. (Call or
> e-mail me for directions to the range.)
As I noted previously, while I now have a license, I still don't have a
*vehicle* (nor insurance, so I can't rent one, even if they'd rent one
to a person without a credit card).
If Tod (or anybody else coming from Portland or points north) is
willing to make a sidetrip to pick me up, I'll pay my share of gas and
snacks.
503-287-3166
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 00:52:37 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Timellords
In mail you write:
> we had a new GM join our gaming group at ISU, who at one point
> decided to run timelords, and ended up with a good sized party.
> he had plans to dump us in a medieval world to fend for ourselves,
> figuring we'd be way out of our element.
>
> he started regretting this decision about 2 hours later, after finding
> out over half the group had spent time in the SCA, and most of the
> rest had a good history backround. while the SCA isnt perfect for
> accuracy... etc, knowing how to do things like make leather or
> chainmail, read heraldry, and other things came in really handy,
> along with knowing how to use a sword and shield.
Back when I ran D&D games (late 70s, early 80s) we used to "train" new
players in the realities of combat.
First, we'd take them out back and let them whack at a pell with
rattan swords, then they'd get to try a few with my *real*
hand-and-a-half "bastard" sword. They also got to try on armor.
We were lucky in that the archway between the living room and dining
room was exactly 10 feet wide. We'd line three of them up, with shields
and rattan swords. Then we'd inite them to *try* swinging.
That put an end to the "we can stand should to shoulder in the corridor
and mow down the orcs" nonsense. :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 12:39:25 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Lord of the Rings photo
"Frank G. Pitt" wrote:
> So whoever was interested, there are a couple available at :
> http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~frankie/html/lotrSet.html
The picture links appear to be broken...
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 04:35:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Timelords
- --- Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net> wrote:
> At 11:16 AM 12/07/2000 -0800, you wrote:
> > > Awwww....Come on! Where's your sense of
> Adventure?!
> > > I _LIKED_ 'TimeLords'<W>....You should try that
> with
> > > _my_ game group......
> >
> >What's "TimeLords"?
>
> In TimeLords you play yourself. It has a set of
> tests and evaluations so
> that you can rate yourself according to the game
> rules of character
> creation. From there, you travel through time,
> across time lines, and
> whatever the GM has in mind. To start out, you have
> whatever is within 10
> feet of the "Matrix", the device that transports you
> across time and space.
>
> It's an interesting diversion for a couple game
> sessions, but can get
> tiring if played too long, IMO.
>
>
> Kurt Feltenberger
>
>>
...<shudder>Tell me about it...MAC
>>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 09:34:01 -0500 (EST)
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
Subject: Re: "Pocket Empires" and Balkanized Worlds
On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Alan Bradley wrote:
> > From: "John P. Raynor"
> > I've been looking over "Pocket Empires," and it strikes me that its
> > handling of Balkanized worlds is a little bit sketchy. I suspect that in
> > the typical "Pocket Empires" campaign this wouldn't really be an issue,
> > but under certain moderately unusual circumstances, a little more detail
> > would be helpful.
>
> This is an interesting case.
>
> It's actually quite likely that a PE might emerge from a Balkanised world.
> In fact, it is quite likely that the territory of each nation/faction would
> be intermixed. In some cases, they might even have separate colonies on
> the same world. (See 2300AD for more details).
I was thinking of trying to run a "Pocket Empires" campaign set in the
Spinward Marches, in an "alternate version of the New Era" in which the
Domain of Deneb (and everything beyond it) was overwhelmed by the Virus,
just like everyone else. I Collapsed the Spinward Marches, and got so
many Balkanized worlds that I began to wonder whether the "Pocket Empires"
rules, as published, would be capable of handling them.
> Where possible, I would treat each nation/national colony as a separate
> world. "NPC" balkanised worlds probably don't deserve this.
>
> A really interesting case would be if a set of (player-run) PEs from a
> balkanised world runs into an threatening "outside" (probably non-player)
> PE. Then they have to go through all the drama of trying to form a united
> front with their hereditary enemies...
Suppose the negotiations which led to the Treaty of New York and the
reorganization of the United Nations in the canonical "Traveller" universe
had broken down, and the Solomani began exploring and colonizing other
worlds under a dozen or so different national banners. I suspect the
presence of the Vilani would have quickly driven Terra's spacefaring
nations back to the bargaining table, but clever diplomacy on the part of
the Vilani provincial governor could have kept them squabbling and
divided, thus greatly postponing the collapse of the First Imperium, and
turning the Solomani Rim into an untidy patchwork of pocket empires,
colonies, independent worlds, and so forth. A pan-Solomani "defensive
alliance" might arise in such an environment, but it would be hard for
such a disorganized and barbarous rabble to carry on a prolonged campaign
of conquest against the First Imperium, particularly if Vilani diplomats
are actively trying to stir up trouble.
Seriously, though, I agree that treating each nation as a seperate world
is probably the best way to solve this problem, although for the purposes
of calculating the number of "trading partners" a world possesses (see
"Trading Finished Goods," p. 42-43), I would treat individual nations as
something less than whole worlds...
- J. Raynor
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 09:33:38 -0500
From: Glenn Myers <glenn.myers@ansys.com>
Subject: Trav auction- Boxed Adventures and Dumarest novels
Heyo,
My shelf clearing is coming to an end. I found two more Traveller adventures
that I forgot I even owned. So, I 'm putting up BeltStrike and Tarsus
together with all of the Dumarest novels I own. I broke the Dumarest novels
into lots of 4 per auction.
http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=arathar
Bye,
Glenn
______________________________________________________
Glenn E. Myers
ANSYS Inc. Email: glenn.myers@ansys.com
275 Technology Drive Phone: (724) 514-2913
Canonsburg, PA 15317 Fax: (724) 514-3118
______________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 09:39:54 -0500
From: Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>
Subject: RE: Doug (was Re: MUTANTS!)
"Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:
> Way ahead of you there:
>
> http://www-med.stanford.edu/medworld/features/cases/li.html
To quote:
"On physical examination following transfer to the general
medicine service, the patient was found to be a thin, pleasant,
well-developed man with a temperature of 37.3°C, pulse of
65, respiratory rate of 16 per minute, height of 6 feet, and
weight of 65 kg."
What must it be like to date a doctor?
"How was your date, Dr. Bob?"
"Well, she's pretty, has blond hair, works as a piano teacher,
has a mean temperature of 37.0°C, a pulse of 66..."
ObTrav: The PCs are looking for a man who has escaped from a
hospital emergency room. The doctors can't describe his face, but
can give detailed information like blood cell counts, spleen size,
neurological response rates, etc. PCs proceed to run around town with
TL15 medscanners looking for their quarry...
Ethan
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 09:41:54 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: An Alternative CharGen Method
From: "Leonard Erickson" <shadow@krypton.rain.com>
> In mail you write:
>
> > Charisma: A measure of personal magnetism. Roll 2D-7+Soc. Those who have
a
> > higher place in society will have more training in social matters. When
> > rolling for reactions, roll 2D-7+Cha+other bonuses.
>
> Charisma *isn't* social skillls.
I based the idea on T4's associating Carousing with Social Standing.
>
> > Wealth: A measure of personal funds. Roll 2D-7+Soc. This prevents
riff-raff
> > from having billions of credits.
>
> Riff-raff like Bill Gates? :-)
Bill Gates was born rich and got richer. To quote a phrase I have heard,
"Bill Gates was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and turned it into
platinum."
- -J. Jensen
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 08:06:27
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces
At 08:23 AM 12/8/2000 +0200, you wrote:
>There is an example of a soldier by name "Pekka Virta". Both first and
>surname are regular Finnish name. There is one slight but : "Pekka" is
>very common _male_ name, but the Ground Forces person is female. B-)
Damn, somebody caught me. I knew it was a male name (and a real person,
I'll let the one who offered it up explain the connection), but I needed at
least one female SEH winner.
>I use Onomastikon (http://www.flick.com/onomastikon/ ) to avoid these
>blunders.
>
>Doug, no offense meant, even if the effect was intentional. B-)
I've made Finns laugh. My quest is complete, I've achieved Godhood.
- --
Douglas Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mondspring.com
"A mörgæs einu sinni hluti minn systir..."
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 08:12:44
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Players as PCs(was: Jodies and other assorted cadences)
At 12:31 AM 12/8/2000 PST, you wrote:
>In mail you write:
>Out of curiousity, do those ever have sections that effectively say
>"From MM-DD-YY to MM-DD-YY so-and-so performed his duties well, but we
>can't tell you what they were or where he was"?
Ahem.
"I am legally prohibited from either confirming, or denying that I had
those sections on my DD-214. Or that I was ever in the Army. Or that I
even exist. Move along, nothing to see here."
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 08:18:10
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Re : Mutants!
At 07:23 PM 12/8/2000 +1100, you wrote:
>I wonder if the result was from a sample of peripheral blood ;
>functionally, there are a number of kinetically distinct 'compartments',
>which can lead to wildly different cell counts depending when and where
>you take your sample from.
Four different samples, one from my *neck* (Not the worst I ever had.. at
one point, I had a central line in my neck, another line into my femoral
artery, and IV's in both arms.)
The lesson here, childrens, is avoid getting cancer. The disease sucks.
Treating it is worse.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 09:38:18 -0700
From: "J. Paul Sanders" <timmon@primenet.com>
Subject: Early Trav. fanzines 4 sale
I have three sets of the following Traveller fanzines for sale:
Imperial Lines 1-4
JumpSpace 1-6
I thought I'd offer them to individuals on the list before listing them on
eBay. I'm asking $50 per set (all those listed above). If you're
interested, please contact me off-list at:
timmon@primenet.com
I now return you to your regularly scheduled beard debate...
Cordially,
Paul Sanders
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 11:39:31 -0500 (EST)
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
Subject: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
Is there any canonical information about which Terran nations (other than
the United States of America) were "spacefaring powers" when first contact
was made with the Vilani? Does anyone have a map of the Solomani Rim
dating back to the Terran invention of the jump drive? It wouldn't be
that hard to get a general idea of which worlds belonged to the First
Imperium, and which were still untouched, by using the location of worlds
with Vilani names, the known limitations of Vilani jump technology, and
the subsector historical notes in the supplement on the Solomani Rim as
guides, but I was hoping to avoid re-inventing the wheel...
- J. Raynor
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 08:37:29 -0800
From: "Acting President Thing" <thingunderthestairs@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces
On Friday, December 08, 2000 8:06 AM
Douglas E. Berry said,
> I've made Finns laugh. My quest is complete, I've achieved Godhood.
Well, there is always the Germans.
G.D.D.
Thing under the stairs,
Minion of Shechemist & GothBunny,
Grand Master of the Electron Flow.
===========================
"When you have shot and killed a man, you have in some measure clarified
your attitude toward him. You have given a definite answer to a
definite problem. For better or for worse, you have acted decisively.
In a way the next move is up to him!" -Robert Heinlein
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 11:40:41 -0500
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Perhaps Santa needs a Gearhead...
While potentially off topic, it might be an interesting exercise to see if
one of the famous design houses can help the jolly old elf...
SANTA CLAUS: AN ENGINEER'S PERSPECTIVE
There are approximately two billion children persons under 18) in the
world. However, since Santa does not visit children of Muslim, Hindu,
Jewish or Buddhist (except maybe in Japan) religions, this reduces the
workload for Christmas night to 15% of the total, or 378 million (according
to the Population Reference Bureau). At an average census) rate of 3.5
children per household, that comes to 108 million homes, presuming that
there is at least one good child in each.
Santa has about 31 hours of Christmas to work with, thanks to
the different time zones and the rotation of the earth, assuming he
travels east to west (which seems logical). This works out to 967.7 visits
per second. This is to say that for each Christian household with a good
child, Santa has around 1/1000th of a second to park the sleigh, hop out,
jump down the chimney, fill the stockings, distribute the remaining
presents under the tree, eat whatever snacks have been left for him, get
back up the chimney, jump into the sleigh and get on to the next house.
Assuming that each of these 108 million stops is evenly distributed around
the earth (which, of course, we know to be false, but will accept for the
purposes of our calculations), we are now talking about 0.78 miles per
household; a total trip of 75.5 million miles, not counting bathroom stops
or breaks. This means Santa's sleigh is moving at 650 miles per
second--3,000 times the speed of sound. For purposes of comparison, the
fastest man-made vehicle, the Ulysses space probe, moves at a poky 27.4
miles per second, and a conventional reindeer can run (at best) 15 miles
per hour.
The payload of the sleigh adds another interesting element. Assuming that
each child gets nothing more than a medium sized Lego set (two pounds), the
sleigh is carrying over 500 thousand tons, not counting Santa himself. On
land, a conventional reindeer can pull no more than 300 pounds. Even
granting that the "flying" reindeer could pull ten times the normal amount,
the job can't be done with eight or even nine of them--Santa would need
360,000 of them. This increases the payload, not counting the weight of the
sleigh, another 54,000 tons, or roughly seven times the weight of the Queen
Elizabeth (the ship, not the monarch).
600,000 tons traveling at 650 miles per second creates enormous air
resistance--this would heat up the reindeer in the same fashion as a
spacecraft re-entering the earth's atmosphere. The lead pair of reindeer
would absorb 14.3 quintillion joules of energy per second each. In short,
they would burst into flames almost instantaneously, exposing the reindeer
behind them and creating deafening sonic booms in their wake. The entire
reindeer team would be vaporized within 4.26 thousandths of a second, or
right about the time Santa reached the fifth house on his trip.
Not that it matters, however, since Santa, as a result of accelerating from
a dead stop to 650 mps. in .001 seconds, would be subjected to acceleration
forces of 17,500 g's. A 250 pound Santa (which seems ludicrously slim)
would be pinned to the back of the sleigh by 4,315,015 pounds of force,
instantly crushing his bones and organs and reducing him to a quivering
blob of pink goo.
Therefore, if Santa did exist, he's dead now.
Merry Christmas.
Kurt Feltenberger
"To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,
may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"
~Stephen Decatur
mailto:kurt@blazenet.net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 11:02:50 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Perhaps Santa needs a Gearhead...
>Therefore, if Santa did exist, he's dead now.
One word: Relativity.
Or maybe its just a fat old Zhodani.
- -J. Jensen
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 08:52:47 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: Jesse DeGraff - CALL ME!
Tod, you need to call Leonard! He's in your neck of the woods :)
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2000 12:44 AM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: Jesse DeGraff - CALL ME!
>
>
> In mail you write:
>
> > Jesse, sorry to waste TML bandwidth, but I lost your current e-amil
> > address. Please call me ASAP regarding the full-auto shoot this
> > weekend. My cell phone number is 541-740-5633.
> >
> > On a separate note to Tod and Leonard, I expect to see you guys there
> > this time. It's only 85 miles from Portland to Albany. (Call or
> > e-mail me for directions to the range.)
>
> As I noted previously, while I now have a license, I still don't have a
> *vehicle* (nor insurance, so I can't rent one, even if they'd rent one
> to a person without a credit card).
>
> If Tod (or anybody else coming from Portland or points north) is
> willing to make a sidetrip to pick me up, I'll pay my share of gas and
> snacks.
>
> 503-287-3166
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 12:06:23 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
>Does anyone have a map of the Solomani Rim dating back to the Terran
>invention of the jump drive?
DGP's "Solomani and Aslan" has a map of the First Imperium and nearby space
at the time of contact. It's in their patented (and visually interesting)
teeny-tiny dots format, but if you're willing to risk eyestrain you can get
an exact border from that.
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 11:15:02 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
>Is there any canonical information about which Terran nations (other than
>the United States of America) were "spacefaring powers" when first contact
>was made with the Vilani? Does anyone have a map of the Solomani Rim
By the time that the Terrans invented the jump drive, they had been subject
to the global rule of the United Nations for over fifty years. Individual
countries weren't significant.
- -J. Jensen
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 12:26:37 -0500 (EST)
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
Subject: Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, James Jensen wrote:
>
> >Is there any canonical information about which Terran nations (other than
> >the United States of America) were "spacefaring powers" when first contact
> >was made with the Vilani? Does anyone have a map of the Solomani Rim
>
> By the time that the Terrans invented the jump drive, they had been subject
> to the global rule of the United Nations for over fifty years. Individual
> countries weren't significant.
There seems to be some disagreement within the canonical material
regarding the degree to which Terra was Balkanized when the jump
drive was invented. On the one hand, "Supplement 12: Library Data N-Z"
says that the reorganization of the United Nations into a world-wide
government took place at the beginning of the 21st century, decades
before the invention of the jump drive. "Alien Module 6: Solomani,"
however, suggests that unification took place (shortly) after the
invention of the jump drive and contact with the Vilani. Forgive me
if I have some of the details wrong, since I don't have the relevant
books with me. Personally, I find the second version of the story
more (a) interesting and (b) plausible.
- J. Raynor
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 10:01:55 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: re: Ground Forces
>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
>There is an example of a soldier by name "Pekka Virta". Both first and
>surname are regular Finnish name. There is one slight but : "Pekka" is
>very common _male_ name, but the Ground Forces person is female. B-)
>
>Not that it couldn't change, but I thought this was fun, and perhaps
>unintentional.
It was probably intentional. I provided Doug Berry with the name and story.
Pekka Virta was my uncle, who served as a sniper during the Winter War.
(Thanks for the mention, Doug!)
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 10:05:01 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: High velocity ATmissile
>From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
>Yes, but I sacrificed my tanks to take out all of the enemy infantry on the
>[deletion]
>Since my tanks had fairly huge weapons, they could just as easily taken out
the tanks (mainly by >virtue of you guys neglecting to deploy prismatic
aerosols).
>
>To get a penetration of 74 you also had to design a *huge* plasma gun. The
generic TL 10 Plasma >A weapon has a penetration of only 44 if I recall
correctly. The off-the-shelf weapons aren't
>very useful.
What was the penetration of the tanks' laser?
Our conversation started out concerning the sizes of AFVs at high tech
levels. Your flying saucers, if they were 1/300 scale models, were about
the same size as my Myrmidons. I think they were all tactically useful.
Maybe we should try designing a really huge TL 10 tank with a really huge
main weapon that will take out anything.
Yes, my plasma guns were big. The off-the-shelf weapons are OK for point
defense and anti-personnel roles.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 18:02:55 +0000
From: Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Jesse DeGraff - CALL ME!
At 20:48 -0500 7/12/00, "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > 64,999,987 firearm owners killed no one yesterday.
> > Somehow, it didn't make the news.
>
>SPLORT!
>
>Congrats. You've got my first keyboard kill.
64,999,986 then....
Dom
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 10:14:40 -0800
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com>
Subject: Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
>Subject: Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
>
>At 06:29 PM 12/6/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>
>> I know that I am treading on dangerous ground here, so before I even
>>open my mouth, I want to assure you, Doug, that I am in complete agreement
>>with you. However, there are a few inconsistancies in this song that I
feel
>>compelled (possibly as the lemming feels compelled) to address. The Pvt.
>>William McBride in the song was a soldier in the 1st World War, not the
2nd.
>>While I have actually heard a few extremist fruitcakes that argue that
WWII
>>(along with all other wars) was unnecessary, most sane people agree that
>>stopping the Nazis was a vitally important task. Mentioning the Waffen-SS
>>in the context of this song, however, confuses the issue, and is perhaps
>>strangely ironic because the sacrifice of McBride helped bring about the
>>conditions that allowed the Nazis to come to power in the first place.
>
>If you look closely, the song's verses describe the British military
>experience after WWI. The first verse is WWII. The second describes Korea
>and the other colonioal wars of the Cold War period, the last is a warning
>about the future.
No Man's Land
By Eric Bogle
Well how do you do, Private William McBride,
Do you mind if I sit here down by your grave side?
I'll rest for a while in the warm summer sun,
I've been walking all day, Lord but I'm nearly done.
And I see by your gravestone that you were only 19,
When you joined the glorious fallen in 1916.
I hope you died quick and I hope you died clean,
Or Willie McBride was is slow and obscene?
(chorus)
Did they beat the drum slowly, did they sound the fife lowly?
Did the rifles fire o'er ye as they lowered you down?
Did the bugles sound the "Last Post and Chorus"?
Did the pipes play "The Fools of the Forest"?
Did you leave a wife or a sweetheart behind,
In some faithful heart is your memory enshrined?
And though you died back in 1916,
In that loyal heart are you always nineteen?
Or are you a stranger without even a name?
Forever enshrined behind some glass frame,
In an old photograph torn and tattered and stained,
And fading to yellow in a brown leather frame.
(chorus)
The sun shining now on these green fields of France,
The warm winds blow gently and the red poppies dance.
The trenches have vanished long under the plow,
No gas and no barbed wire, no guns firing now.
But here in this graveyard that's still No Man's Land,
The countless white crosses in mute witness stand
To man's blind indifference to his fellow man,
And a whole generation who were butchered and damned.
(chorus)
And I can't help but wonder now, Willie McBride,
Do all those who lie here know why they died?
Did you really believe them when they told you the cause?
Did you really believe that this war would end wars?
Well the suffering, the sorrow, the glory, the shame,
The killing, the dying, it was all done in vain;
For Willie McBride, it all happened again,
And again and again and again and again
(chorus, repeat last line)
According to the liner notes for Bogle's album Now I'm Easy, he
wrote his famous song "And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda" in 1974, and
this song shortly after during a tour of the battle sites and graveyards in
France. I don't know what you heard sung, but I believe this to be the
original version of the song. This is what I remembered when I read the
filk "Willie McBride's Reply", and I hope you can understand why I reacted
as I did. There is nothing here about all wars being unjust of useless, or
accusing the leaders of being liars or fools. He doesn't piss on their
grave or their memories. He merely ruminates on one small tragedy among the
millions, and remarks on the irony of a "War to End All Wars" that was
merely a prelude to nearly a century of killing.
I would be very interested in seeing the lyrics to the version that
she sung, and would probably be as incensed as you were; being a history
freak, I understand that as terrible as warfare is, there are times that the
alternative is far, far worse.
Who was it who said "The only thing required for evil to triumph is
for good men to do nothing."?
By the way, have a blast (pun intended) at the shoot; I wish I could
go.
Rod Basler, COFIT
- -----------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer - It's my mouth, so it's not their fault.
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3369
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3370
Date: | 12/8/00 2:19:29 PM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Friday, December 8 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3370
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Lord of the Rings photo
Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
Re: High velocity ATmissile
Re: Timellords
Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
Re: Players as PCs(was: Jodies and other assorted cadences)
RE: Perhaps Santa needs a Gearhead...
Re: Players as PCs(was: Jodies and other assorted cadences)
Re: Lord of the Rings photo
Re: High velocity ATmissile
Re: Pocket Empires and Balkanised Worlds
Re: Silly adventure idea
Re: Pocket Empires and Balkanised Worlds
Re: Nature of Imperial War
Re: Nature of Imperial War
Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 13:18:02 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re: Lord of the Rings photo
"Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz> types:
>
>I apologize for dumping this on the list, but I promised someone from here
>I'd post some pictures of the LOTR Minas Tirith set on my web page, and I
>can't remember who it was.
>
>So whoever was interested, there are a couple available at :
>http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~frankie/html/lotrSet.html
>
The only pic I'm getting on this page is the Munden's logo...
GC
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 13:27:03 EST
From: JFZeigler@aol.com
Subject: Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
>Is there any canonical information about which Terran
>nations (other than the United States of America) were
>"spacefaring powers" when first contact was made with
>the Vilani?
Very little. Based on "Trillion Credit Squadron" and
other considerations, it's pretty clear that the
European Union (i.e. the ESA) was also a spacefaring
power at the time. In RIM OF FIRE we suggested that
the ESA had sunk much of its resources into a series
of long-range STL colony probes, thus establishing the
Prometheus colony at Alpha Centauri even before Vilani
contact, but losing out on mounting the first jump-
drive expedition as a result. One could even make
the case that the ESA had a much stronger space
presence than the US at the time. . .
Aside from the US and the ESA, no data.
>Does anyone have a map of the Solomani Rim dating
>back to the Terran invention of the jump drive? It
>wouldn't be that hard to get a general idea of which
>worlds belonged to the First Imperium, and which were
>still untouched, by using the location of worlds
>with Vilani names, the known limitations of Vilani
>jump technology, and the subsector historical notes in
>the supplement on the Solomani Rim as guides, but I
>was hoping to avoid re-inventing the wheel...
I did pretty much what you're talking about when
writing RIM OF FIRE. I concluded that the Vilani
border came up to Iilike and Shulimik to spinward of
Terra, and to Nusku to coreward. Agidda and Barnard I
assumed to be systems occasionally visited but not
formally colonized. I also decided that Lagash
(despite the name) was not a Vilani colony before
Terran contact, mostly on the basis of an analysis of
the IMPERIUM game.
I don't know if there exists any canonical map of
the region set at the time of Terran contact. Contrary
to an earlier poster, I believe the dot-map in DGP's
"Solomani and Aslan" is set in the Rebellion timeframe.
The map in the back of GDW's "Solomani" book did show
the Imperial border at the time of Terran contact, but
not with great precision.
Actually, the "expert" on the whole Interstellar Wars
period is Andrew Moffatt-Vallence. He was effectively
my co-author for the relevant sections of RIM OF FIRE,
and should still be working on a whole book devoted
to the period. I'd contact him.
- ---
Jon
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 10:31:26 -0800
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: Re: High velocity ATmissile
Glenn Goffin wrote:
> What was the penetration of the tanks' laser?
I don't recall, but I think that it was in the high 70's, maybe even the low
80's. I don't have my Striker stuff with me right now. The past week, on the
other hand, I had my stuff with me as I flew to the East coast and back. Due
to the travelling, I probably got in a good 12 to 15 hours of Striker
designing, at the cost of many stiff body parts from sitting in airline
seats for so long.
> Our conversation started out concerning the sizes of AFVs at high tech
> levels. Your flying saucers, if they were 1/300 scale models, were about
> the same size as my Myrmidons. I think they were all tactically useful.
> Maybe we should try designing a really huge TL 10 tank with a really huge
> main weapon that will take out anything.
With the flying saucers, the actual design was bigger than the model. The
design was inspired by the model, however. In addition, the model has things
which violate Striker design rules, like having the turret be taller than
the chassis. This is a problem with the WWI tanks also. They are long and
thin, which is not allowed in Striker.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 10:40:07 -0800
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com>
Subject: Re: Timellords
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Subject: Re: Timellords
>
>In mail you write:
>
<snip>
>We were lucky in that the archway between the living room and dining
>room was exactly 10 feet wide. We'd line three of them up, with shields
>and rattan swords. Then we'd inite them to *try* swinging.
>
>That put an end to the "we can stand should to shoulder in the corridor
>and mow down the orcs" nonsense. :-)
Why else do you think that the Roman 'gladius' was a short,
_thrusting_ weapon? ;o)
Rod Basler, COFIT
- ------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer - You know the drill, it's not their fault, OK?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 13:51:52 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
>I don't know if there exists any canonical map of
>the region set at the time of Terran contact. Contrary
>to an earlier poster, I believe the dot-map in DGP's
>"Solomani and Aslan" is set in the Rebellion timeframe.
I'll double-check when I get home in a few hours -- I actually have the
module out at the moment for another purpose -- and let you know for sure
what map it was. I'm wondering now if it's in "Vilani and Vargr" instead...I
do recall a detailed dot map of the First Imperium somewhere.
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_____________________________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 13:51:46 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
>I don't know if there exists any canonical map of
>the region set at the time of Terran contact. Contrary
>to an earlier poster, I believe the dot-map in DGP's
>"Solomani and Aslan" is set in the Rebellion timeframe.
I'll double-check when I get home in a few hours -- I actually have the
module out at the moment for another purpose -- and let you know for sure
what map it was. I'm wondering now if it's in "Vilani and Vargr" instead...I
do recall a detailed dot map of the First Imperium somewhere.
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_____________________________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 10:11:10
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
At 11:15 AM 12/8/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>By the time that the Terrans invented the jump drive, they had been subject
>to the global rule of the United Nations for over fifty years. Individual
>countries weren't significant.
Which is why you never see the Confederate flag in the south anymore,
because more than fifty years have passed.
Sorry, but if anybody thinks that anything short of invasion from another
world will get, say, the Greeks and Turks to agree about *anything*, I'm
not buying it.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 13:56:03 -0500
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
JFZeigler wrote:
>
>I don't know if there exists any canonical map of
>the region set at the time of Terran contact. Contrary
>to an earlier poster, I believe the dot-map in DGP's
>"Solomani and Aslan" is set in the Rebellion timeframe.
>The map in the back of GDW's "Solomani" book did show
>the Imperial border at the time of Terran contact, but
>not with great precision.
There *is* a map in DGP's "Vilani & Vargr", though, that shows the
extent of Ziru Sirka at its height... which is something like
1500-1600 CE, IIRC. Maybe that's what the earlier poster had in
mind? I think that would be just about what the situation was as of
Terran-Vilani contact, too... not much time or need for change, by
Vilani standards.
Kenji
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 14:08:05 EST
From: JFZeigler@aol.com
Subject: Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
>There *is* a map in DGP's "Vilani & Vargr", though,
>that shows the extent of Ziru Sirka at its height...
>which is something like 1500-1600 CE, IIRC. Maybe
>that's what the earlier poster had in mind? I think
>that would be just about what the situation was as of
>Terran-Vilani contact, too... not much time or need
>for change, by Vilani standards.
Very possible. I don't own a copy of Cogs & Dogs.
If I remember right, Andrew and I agreed that the
Vilani border in Solomani Rim sector had been stable
for centuries at the point of Terran contact. So the
map of the Ziru Sirka "at its height" would be about
right.
Of course, since Andrew and I spent some time analyzing
the specific situation on the Rim, I'd consider our
results to be more accurate for that region :-).
- ---
Jon
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 14:20:28 -0500 (EST)
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
Subject: Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> At 11:15 AM 12/8/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>
> >By the time that the Terrans invented the jump drive, they had been subject
> >to the global rule of the United Nations for over fifty years. Individual
> >countries weren't significant.
>
> Which is why you never see the Confederate flag in the south anymore,
> because more than fifty years have passed.
>
> Sorry, but if anybody thinks that anything short of invasion from another
> world will get, say, the Greeks and Turks to agree about *anything*, I'm
> not buying it.
I can (barely) envision a "good" version of Treaty of New York being
signed in the wake of some kind of really horrible and scary international
incident, such as full-scale, no-holds-barred atomic warfare between India
and Pakistan. I can also envision an "evil" Treaty of New York leading to
the establishment of something that would look a lot like the Pournelle's
"Co-Dominium" -- an international organization with all the power securely
in the hands of the (post-)industrial plutocracies of the "north,"
intended to keep the "south" in the mines, plantations, and sweatshops.
I agree, however, that the "unification after first contact" version of
the story is more plausible, and I think it's more interesting, too.
- J. Raynor
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 12:22:37 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Players as PCs(was: Jodies and other assorted cadences)
Ranger Joes sells a CD with 33 manuals on it. I don't know if these are
on it, but the thjing is called 'Special OPS' and has things like the
Ranger Handbook, FM 31 21 Guerilla Warfare and SF Ops, etc. $25
http://64.182.219.197/catalog/selection.cfm?category=main&id=1713
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> In mail you write:
>
>
>> "Pronto" <pronto_r031@telus.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Oh goodness....
>>> From where I'm sitting :
>>> TM 31-210 Improvised Munitions Handbook
>>> FM 5-25 Explosives and Demolitions
>>> FM 5-31 Boobytraps
>>
>>
>> Ah! The -OTHER- infamous little black books.
>>
>>
>> (I still remember being fortunate enough to read Volume II, that one of
>> my gaming group had bought (just before the government banned their import).)
>
>
> Check around. I think one of the .gov sites has all the non-classified
> ones available as PDF files.
>
> Now that I have a working browser again, I need to see about picking up
> a few. Like the 2 unclassified volumes of the 3 volume set on nuclear
> weapons. :-)
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 14:52:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: RE: Perhaps Santa needs a Gearhead...
Kurt Feltenberger writes:
<much snippage>
>a conventional reindeer can run (at best) 15 miles per hour.
<even more snippage>
That sounds awfully slow for a reindeer. Not knowing
much about the velocity of organisms, I poked about
the web a bit. Somebody at
http://web.mit.edu/towtank/www/pike/
tells us that pike (a carnivorous fish) can accelerate at
8-12 G [no top speed is given, but they they can
apparently make a speed of at least 6 m/s (21.6 km/hr)].
Another web page
http://www.swishweb.com/Animal_Kingdom/animal07.htm
lists a number of maximum speeds for animals, though
there are no references. These might be interesting for
PC's in vehicles trying to escape from large animals:
land
cheetah: 110 kph
antelope: 95 kph
lion: 80 kph
hare: 70 kph
horse: 69 kph
greyhound: 60 kph
giraffe: 50 kph
ostrich: 50 kph
wolf: 45 kph
elephant: 40 kph
crocodile: 13 kph
mamba: 11 kph
air
diving falcon: 360 kph
swift: 200 kph
swan: 90 kph
dragonfly: 75 kph
pheasant: 60 kph
crow: 40 kph
bumblebee: 11 kph
water
sailfish: 110 kph
blue shark: 70 kph
killer whale: 55 kph
salmon: 40 kph
sea lion: 40 kph
penguin: 40 kph
leatherback turtle: 35 kph
pike: 33 kph
Another site lists 80 kph for killer whales and 32 kph for
a mamba, but most of the speeds listed above are
reported elsewhere. A couple more are 55 kph for squid,
50 kph for a grizzly bear or domestic cat, 45 kph for an
exceptional human on a race track, 20 kph for a squirrel,
13 kph for a house mouse, 1.9 kph for a spider, and
0.27 kph for a giant tortoise. Naturally, some of these
organisms can maintain the listed speed longer than
others.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 12:01:00 -0800
From: "Pronto" <pronto_r031@telus.net>
Subject: Re: Players as PCs(was: Jodies and other assorted cadences)
> Ranger Joes sells a CD with 33 manuals on it. I don't know if these are
> on it, but the thjing is called 'Special OPS' and has things like the
> Ranger Handbook, FM 31 21 Guerilla Warfare and SF Ops, etc. $25
>
> http://64.182.219.197/catalog/selection.cfm?category=main&id=1713
>
Thanks Leonard.
Software,Games CD ROM, Special Ops
Disk contains 33 field manuals, including:
Ranger Handbook, << FM 7-85 RANGER UNIT OPERATIONS, 09 JUN 1987
restricted
FM 31 21, Guerrilla Warfare & SF Ops, <<< not available in library
FM 31-20 5, SF Recon Tactics, <<< restricted
FM 20 10 Sniper Training, << FM 23-10 SNIPER TRAINING, 17 AUG 1994
unrestricted
FM 90 3 Desert Operations, << unrestricted
FM 17 98 Scout Platoon, <<unrestricted
FM 57 38 Pathfinder Operations << unrestricted
The FMs marked as 'unrestricted' are available as PDF downloads from
http://www.adtdl.army.mil/atdls.htm
Naturally, its the first three books I'd most like to have, but not, at the
moment $25 interested.
Pronto
AKA Brian Taylor
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 15:35:29 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@home.com>
Subject: Re: Lord of the Rings photo
At 10:59 PM 12/08/2000 +1300, Frankie wrote:
>I apologize for dumping this on the list, but I promised someone from here
>I'd post some pictures of the LOTR Minas Tirith set on my web page, and I
>can't remember who it was.
>
>So whoever was interested, there are a couple available at :
>http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~frankie/html/lotrSet.html
>
>They're not very good, I don't have set access or anything, they're just
>shots from the road.
Both picture links, unfortunately, appear to be broken...
Bill Rutherford
worj@home.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 12:50:54 -0800
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: Re: High velocity ATmissile
Glenn Goffin wrote:
> Our conversation started out concerning the sizes of AFVs at high tech
> levels. Your flying saucers, if they were 1/300 scale models, were about
> the same size as my Myrmidons. I think they were all tactically useful.
> Maybe we should try designing a really huge TL 10 tank with a really huge
> main weapon that will take out anything.
One more point is that you can't really design a round vehicle with the
Striker rules as written, if you are following them exactly. They require a
vehicle to have a length, width, and height, and calculate the volume as l x
w x h. So designing a round vehicle runs up against possible objections from
purists (although I am certainly not one).
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 08:03:52 +1100
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au>
Subject: Re: Pocket Empires and Balkanised Worlds
> From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
> Subject: Re: "Pocket Empires" and Balkanized Worlds
> Seriously, though, I agree that treating each nation as a seperate world
> is probably the best way to solve this problem, although for the purposes
> of calculating the number of "trading partners" a world possesses (see
> "Trading Finished Goods," p. 42-43), I would treat individual nations as
> something less than whole worlds...
> - J. Raynor
The other thing I think you should do to that table is only count trading
partners that are within a certain multiple of that world's size - one big
worlds will lose the economic effects of ten tiny trading partners in
rounding error. On the other hand, trading links with other big worlds
should provide the long-term economic boost.
Ian Whitchurch
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 08:32:11 +1100
From: Robert Houghton <rhoughto@one.net.au>
Subject: Re: Silly adventure idea
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> I just got back from a friend's where we watched her new DVD of the
> *original* (1970s) "Gone In 60 Seconds".
>
> It occurs to me that it'd be interesting to try that with, say, air
> rafts. Or maybe even ground vehicles. Either with the PCs being the
> folks hauling the cargo out of the system, or the ones hired to get
> them.
Or that famous movie from the same era..."The Italian Job"....which ends
with a literal cliff-hanger...In the movie it was half a ton of gold
being stolen, a city traffic control system being bollixed to grid lock
the city and three Mini Minors driven all over an Italian city (and I
mean *all* over...rooftops...drains...stairs...) getting around the
gridlock...if people can't do anything with that...but would it be a
half-ton of gold? or something more exotic?
Other Rob
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 16:33:48 -0500 (EST)
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
Subject: Re: Pocket Empires and Balkanised Worlds
On Sat, 9 Dec 2000, Katharine Whitchurch wrote:
> > From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
> > Subject: Re: "Pocket Empires" and Balkanized Worlds
> > Seriously, though, I agree that treating each nation as a seperate world
> > is probably the best way to solve this problem, although for the purposes
> > of calculating the number of "trading partners" a world possesses (see
> > "Trading Finished Goods," p. 42-43), I would treat individual nations as
> > something less than whole worlds...
> > - J. Raynor
>
> The other thing I think you should do to that table is only count trading
> partners that are within a certain multiple of that world's size - one big
> worlds will lose the economic effects of ten tiny trading partners in
> rounding error. On the other hand, trading links with other big worlds
> should provide the long-term economic boost.
I agree, this is also problem with the rules as they are written. I'd say
that "a" should benefit fully from trading with "b" if the Population Code
of "b" is equal to, or greater than, that of "a", but that if the reverse
is true, if the population of "b" is less than "a", then the Population
Code of "b" should be subtracted from that of "a", and the benefit which
"a" derives from trading with "b" should be divided by ten, raised to the
power of the difference in Population Codes.
So, for example,
if there are only two worlds in the universe, "a" and "b", and
the Population of "a" is 6 and the Population of "b" is 8, then
"a" has 2 trading partners (since, according to the rules, worlds
always count themselves when calculating how many trading partners
they have), but "b" only has 1.01 trading partners (itself, plus
8 - 6 = 2, 10^2 = 100, 1 + 1/100 = 1.01).
Or is this *too* harsh? Perhaps ten should be raised to the power of the
difference between "a" and "b," minus 1, so in the example above, "b"
would have 1.1 trading partners (8 - 6 = 2, 2 - 1 = 1, 10^1 = 10,
1 + 1/10 = 1.1).
- J. Raynor
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 08:38:23 +1100
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au>
Subject: Re: Nature of Imperial War
> From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
> Subject: Nature of Imperial War (Slight Return) (longish)
<much good stuff deleted>
> At the same time, I had been chugging through Eric Hobsbawm's excellent
> "The Age of Extremes: A History of the World, 1914 - 1991". His primary
area
> of scholarship basically boils down to the 19th century, when wars were
> quite different. Here's the specific passage which really got my juices
> flowing:
>
> "...Nevertheless, before the twentieth century, wars embracing all society
> were exceptional. Jane Austen wrote her novels during the Napoleonic wars,
> but no reader who did not know this already would guess it, for the wars
do
> not appear in her pages, even though a number of the young gentleman who
> pass through them undoubtedly took part in them. It is inconceivable that
> any novelist could write about Britain in the twentieth-century wars in
this
> manner." (Hobsbawm, 44)
This is where the history buffs take the gloves off, I think ...
Lets cut to the quick. Hobswam is English. Due to the Royal Navy, and the
opposition of the Army and the Parliament to conscription, English society
was massively insulated from the Great European War of 1793-1815.
Everybody else in this war moved to conscription civilians in large numbers
to support massive armies. Everybody else regularily fought campaigns with
higher losses than the entire army the British and Allies fielded at
Waterloo. Everybody else (ok, I'm not sure about the Austrians) adopted, to
one degree or another, total mobilisation of all available resourcesfor the
Army. And as for the barbarity of war, and the end of the idea of civilians
as non-combatants, lets have a glance at the retreat from Moscow or the war
in Spain ... Germany was less bad in that respect, but part of that was that
the loyalty of just about every German state was fluid to some extent or
another.
This was in the context of societies with smaller populations and less
social surplus than in the post-industrial revolution Great War.
> This comment really blew me away. I had read the oft-repeated mantra that
> wars were different in the 19th century, but I had never actually felt it
in
> my gut. This point was hammered home when he compared the production of
> munitions during the Napoleonic wars and the production of munitions
during
> the Great War. In the former, a much smaller segment of the population was
> involved in war-production than the latter. Interesting stuff.
Part of the reason for that was the limit on the number of horses available
to drag artillery limited the amount of artillery that needed to be built.
The lower rate of fire of Napoleonic artillery, and the shorter duration of
battles also meant you needed fewer munitions. Another part was that
agriculture was much more efficient in 1914 than in 1814, so you need to
have a higher base percentage of people involved in agriculture to feed
everybody.
> I stopped thinking of the Imperial rules of warfare as a reason for the
> Imperium to use a "big stick", but instead as a set of rules which
> mercenaries on both sides of a conflict are willing and choose to abide
by.
> Mercs play by the rules not because they're afraid of getting smacked
around
> by the Imperium, but because not playing by the rules would be unsporting
> and uncivilized and generally in bad taste.
The other reason is that, as professionals, they are unlikely to be
motivated by ideology or nationalism.
Ian Whitchurch
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 15:14:28 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Nature of Imperial War
Katharine Whitchurch wrote:
>> From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
>> I stopped thinking of the Imperial rules of warfare as a reason for the
>> Imperium to use a "big stick", but instead as a set of rules which
>> mercenaries on both sides of a conflict are willing and choose to abide
>
> by.
>
>> Mercs play by the rules not because they're afraid of getting smacked
>
> around
>
>> by the Imperium, but because not playing by the rules would be unsporting
>> and uncivilized and generally in bad taste.
>
>
> The other reason is that, as professionals, they are unlikely to be
> motivated by ideology or nationalism.
They do it primarily because this maximizes their chances of living to
collect another paycheck....
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 17:17:47 -0500 (EST)
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
Subject: Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
On Fri, 8 Dec 2000 JFZeigler@aol.com wrote:
> >
> >Is there any canonical information about which Terran
> >nations (other than the United States of America) were
> >"spacefaring powers" when first contact was made with
> >the Vilani?
>
> Very little. Based on "Trillion Credit Squadron" and
> other considerations, it's pretty clear that the
> European Union (i.e. the ESA) was also a spacefaring
> power at the time. In RIM OF FIRE we suggested that
> the ESA had sunk much of its resources into a series
> of long-range STL colony probes, thus establishing the
> Prometheus colony at Alpha Centauri even before Vilani
> contact, but losing out on mounting the first jump-
> drive expedition as a result. One could even make
> the case that the ESA had a much stronger space
> presence than the US at the time. . .
>
> Aside from the US and the ESA, no data.
I'm trying to come up with a plausible list of "the top ten spacefaring
nations" when the jump drive was invented at the end in the 21st century.
Russia, China, and Japan are all obvious candidates. India and Brazil
also look reasonably plausible to me, but beyond that, things start
getting murkier. I find it very interesting, however, that there are so
few canonical worlds with Russian and Chinese names. Perhaps "something
bad" happened to those two at some point prior to the invention of the
jump drive?
> I don't know if there exists any canonical map of
> the region set at the time of Terran contact. Contrary
> to an earlier poster, I believe the dot-map in DGP's
> "Solomani and Aslan" is set in the Rebellion timeframe.
> The map in the back of GDW's "Solomani" book did show
> the Imperial border at the time of Terran contact, but
> not with great precision.
I believe this map (the one in "Alien Module 6: the Solomani") depicts the
Vilani Imperium and the Terran Confederation at the very end of the Nth
Interstellar War.
- J. Raynor
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3370
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3371
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Traveller-digest Friday, December 8 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3371
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
Re: Nature of Imperial War
Re: Timellords
Re: Players as PCs(was: Jodies and other assorted cadences)
Re: Timellords
Re: MUTANTS!
GT: Reft sector Xboat-link.
Re: Nature of Imperial War
RE: Timellords
Re: Timellords
Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link.
Re: Ground Forces
Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link.
Re: Ground Forces
Re: Ground Forces
Re: An Alternative CharGen Method
Re: Nature of Imperial War
Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3370
Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 17:19:56 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
>I believe the dot-map in DGP's "Solomani and Aslan" is set in the Rebellion
>timeframe.
I found the map I was thinking of, p. 11 of "Vilani & Vargr". Its legend
includes the notation "CIRCA -3500 (Imperial Calendar)", so about the year
1000 AD. However, as noted, the Ziru Sirka wasn't changing very much in that
time period.
Cross-referencing that map with the Solomani Rim subsector maps at Ethan
Henry's web site, I came up with the following results:
- - The Vilani occupied every planet in the two first rows of subsectors:
Ultima, Suleiman, Concord, Harlequin, Alderamin, Esperance, Vega, and
Banasdan.
- - In Aldabawi subsector, they had all planets except Alizarin and Krypton.
- - In Dingir subsector, the claimed worlds were Oudh, Ishmael, Sebasta,
Alsatia, Ishumled, Langelos, Herakles, Fomalhaut, Khulampu, Gashidda,
Ishkur, Altair, Zaggisi, and Apishal.
- - In Sol subsector, they had Nuksu, Agidda, Ishimshulgi, Lagash, Ninkhur
Sagga, and Mukhaldim.
- - In Arcturus subsector, they laid claim to Hathor, Tunguska, Anenerkuk,
Jael, Arcturus, and Heraklion.
- - The remaining four subsectors were unoccupied.
Interestingly, the dot map contradicts some of "Solomani & Aslan". Barnard
is shown as being outside the Ziru Sirka on the "V&V" dot map, yet the
history of the Solomani in its sister book, says "Our Solomani ancestors
encountered aliens -- *humans* -- living in the Barnard system." My take on
this is that at least that system was colonized between -3500 and -2422.
There may have been others, but there's no way of knowing from this
material.
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 17:36:04 -0500
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
John P. Raynor wrote:
>Russia, China, and Japan are all obvious candidates. India and Brazil
>also look reasonably plausible to me, but beyond that, things start
>getting murkier. I find it very interesting, however, that there are so
>few canonical worlds with Russian and Chinese names. Perhaps "something
>bad" happened to those two at some point prior to the invention of the
>jump drive?
I believe that, according to DGP (in Solomani&Aslan as well as
various TD articles), the spinward sections of the (later) Solomani
Sphere were heavily colonized by what can only be described as a
sinister blend of Asian stereotypes. There's also a big Slavic
Republic of Something or Another elswhere in the Solomani Sphere that
may well be based on early Russian colonization. Brazilian and South
Asian names, though, are conspicuously absent from star charts of the
Third Imperium, it seems. Though apparently some Hivers, again on
the borders of the Solomani Sphere, have adopted the worship of
Hanuman...
Kenji
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 17:50:07 -0500
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: Nature of Imperial War
Ian Whitchurch wrote:
[quoting Chris Seamans]
> > I stopped thinking of the Imperial rules of warfare as a reason for the
>> Imperium to use a "big stick", but instead as a set of rules which
>> mercenaries on both sides of a conflict are willing and choose to abide
>by.
>> Mercs play by the rules not because they're afraid of getting smacked
>around
>> by the Imperium, but because not playing by the rules would be unsporting
>> and uncivilized and generally in bad taste.
>
>The other reason is that, as professionals, they are unlikely to be
>motivated by ideology or nationalism.
Er... how is their "professionalism" not an ideology?
Kenji
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 15:56:31 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Timellords
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> In mail you write:
> That put an end to the "we can stand should to shoulder in the corridor
> and mow down the orcs" nonsense. :-)
Well, the orcs are going to have just as much trouble.
And this leads directly to the "We can stand shoulder to shoulder in the
corridor and shish-kebab the orcs with our spears!"
Shield walls work really well in these situations, as do larger versions
(what we invented was a big siege engine-ish shield with nasty spikes
sticking out of it, constructed with wheels on a long ram. It basically
covered the entire width and height of the corridor. Everyone pitched in
and trundled it along the corridor. Called it 'The Dungeon Squeegee'.
;-) The GM let us get away with it...once. After that all his dungeons
had passages of varying sizes...
This model works for ship corridors, too. Still doesn't deter the
munchkins who lug FGMP's into boarding actions, any more than the same
players who toss fireballs into the corridors in D&D.
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 14:41:19 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Players as PCs(was: Jodies and other assorted cadences)
In mail you write:
> Leonard Erickson wrote :-
>> I will add that one of the reasons chloroform is a lousy choice to
>> knock people out is because it can change on it's own to several very
>> toxic compounds (as if it wasn't toxic enough on its own!).
>>
>> So don't mess with it.
>
> I agree. The chloroform soaked hanky trick is potentially lethal ; 50%
> of adult humans will be anaesthetised with a partial pressure of 0.47%
> of the stuff.
I hear chloral hydrate (the original "mickey") is pretty nasty as well.
> * - last year in Victoria, Oz, the police booked half a dozen drivers
> who were injecting intravenous anaesthetic agents behind the wheel (!)
"Think of it as evolution in action"
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 14:42:26 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Timellords
In mail you write:
>>We were lucky in that the archway between the living room and dining
>>room was exactly 10 feet wide. We'd line three of them up, with shields
>>and rattan swords. Then we'd inite them to *try* swinging.
>>
>>That put an end to the "we can stand should to shoulder in the corridor
>>and mow down the orcs" nonsense. :-)
>
> Why else do you think that the Roman 'gladius' was a short,
> _thrusting_ weapon? ;o)
Less than useful againt an 8-foot tall opponent who is carrying *his*
equivalent of a "short thrusting weapon". :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 14:48:04 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: MUTANTS!
In mail you write:
> On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> In mail you write:
>> > Douglas Berry writes:
>> >>You want mutants?
>> >>I can see a bit further into the UV than most people.
>> I forgot to mention that I can hear well into the ultrasound range.
>> It's probably not a mutation, unless asthma is (asthmatics tend to have
>> this ability, no idea why)
>
> This is something I envy. My right ear detects sounds up to 12 kHz,
> left a bit higher.
>
> I blame sensitive ears and too loud music. I just fear when I will
> be completely deaf. (I'm 24.)
Just keep in mind that there's a big difference between *range* and
*acuity*.
I have a lot of trouble understanding speech in the presence of some
types of non-speech background noise.
Also, as I noted, being able to hear that far above "normal" has its own
problems. Besides the screech of TVs and older monitors, I have
*painful* memories of the time I visited a friend who was working on an
alarm system. I thought I heard the ultrasonic emitters, but since the
sound was faint, I picked up an emitter and brought it up to my ear.
I thought the top of my head was going to come off.
You see, I'd brought it up fairly fast. And the Doppler shift moved it
into a range that is *very* unpleasant. As it "who hit me with the
baseball bat?".
After I recovered, I *cautiously* brought the emitter to my ear. And
confirmed that the noise I'd first heard was the emitter.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 00:06:16 +0100
From: "Kjeld Johansen" <kjeld@games.dk>
Subject: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link.
Hi, I’m new to this list, and I’m full of questions ;-)
In my GT campaign is the Vargr giving troubles in the Corridor sector, so to
maintain a steady communication link from the Capital to the Spinward
Marches sector, are the IISS planning to make an Xboat-link through the Reft
sector.
This route will go by Cerebin (0217) > Zuflucht (0921) > Serendip Belt
(1323) > Elysee (1525) > New Home (1925) > Amondiage (2325) > Eskandor
(3028).
The first and the last of these jumps will demand a Jump-7, and for this job
there have been designed a 220-Ton Serendip-Class Express Boat [G:TL 12].
This is basically a standard xboat, with expanded fuel capacity.
The larges problem with this xboat-route is that it’s going through
non-Imperial territories, and it will be a major diplomatic success it the
route is established.
220-Ton Serendip-Class Express Boat [TL 12] {Gurps: Traveller}
220-ton USL Hull (internal spaces 220, mass 10, cost 2.4, area 11000)
Armor DR 100 (mass 22, cost 0.264)
Sealed (cost 0.11)
Basic Bridge (spaces 2.5, mass 7.3, cost 3.1)
Communications 3 (spaces 36, mass 414.3, cost 11.49)
Engineering (spaces 1, mass 3.7, cost 0.16)
Utility (spaces 1, mass 11.5, cost 0.25)
Stateroom 2 (spaces 8, mass 4, cost 0.0024)
Jump 11 (spaces 11, mass 44, cost 33.55)
Fuel 154 (spaces 154, mass 200.2, cost 24.64)
Cargo: 6.5.
Statistics: EMass 717, LMass 749.5, Cost MCr 75.97, HP 16500. Hull Size
Modifier: +9.
Performance: Jump 4.
Well, now to the questions ;-)
How will it affect the Traveller universe, if this xboat-route is
established?
I know about http://maps.grandsurvey.com/, but is this area described
elsewhere?
When the ship makes its first jump, it uses about half of the fuel. If it
could reduce its volume like a harmonica, then it would save fuel (and total
volume) for the second jump. Is there rules for this anywhere?
Kjeld (Denmark).
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 18:26:58 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Nature of Imperial War
>Er... how is their "professionalism" not an ideology?
Well, the specific meaning of the word "ideology" is "the ideas from which a
system of economic or political thought derives". At the very least, it
refers to the systems themselves.
The "big four" -- feudalism, capitalism, communism, and fascism -- are at
least arguably concerned with both the economic and political.
"Professionalism" isn't, as it lacks the systematic nature of the others....
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 23:26:56 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Timellords
Bruce Johnson
> Shield walls work really well in these situations, as do larger
> versions (what we invented was a big siege engine-ish shield
> with nasty spikes sticking out of it, constructed with wheels
> on a long ram. It basically covered the entire width and height
> of the corridor. Everyone pitched in and trundled it along the
> corridor. Called it 'The Dungeon Squeegee'. ;-) The GM let us
> get away with it...once. After that all his dungeons had
> passages of varying sizes...
In the film "Labyrinth" the operators of such a device were
called "The Cleaners".
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 16:56:54 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Timellords
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
>> That put an end to the "we can stand should to shoulder in the corridor
>> and mow down the orcs" nonsense. :-)
Could be one of the reasons I like to use both the Gladius & the
Hand-and-a-Half Sword in AD&D. The Gladius works great in a confined area,
such as a corridor & the Hand-and-a-Half Sword works when you are going
mano-a-mano with something in a room or outside.
My main pet peeve is that people think that they can stand behind the
fighter or paladin who is in front & still be able to shoot arrows over his
shoulder.
>Well, the orcs are going to have just as much trouble.
>And this leads directly to the "We can stand shoulder to shoulder in the
>corridor and shish-kebab the orcs with our spears!"
Correct, but then again, why play orcs as mindless beasts? When I used
to run AD&D, I ran orcs as cunning & able combatants. I really pissed off a
lot of players & got a rep as a "Killer DM" when I had the orcs use good
tactics against them.
If you think about it, you are attacking an entrenched position, against
an able enemy. You have no real chance if the orcs are strak about things.
>Shield walls work really well in these situations, as do larger versions
>(what we invented was a big siege engine-ish shield with nasty spikes
>sticking out of it, constructed with wheels on a long ram. It basically
>covered the entire width and height of the corridor. Everyone pitched in
>and trundled it along the corridor. Called it 'The Dungeon Squeegee'.
>;-) The GM let us get away with it...once. After that all his dungeons
>had passages of varying sizes...
My main problem with dungeons is how did they get there? I mean I can
understand lairs, but how come do you have all of those monsters living in
the same place & they are not fighting it out or working together.
OK, now if you have a dragon, then he may have a few minions around, but
why are they always sitting around on their hands? shouldn't they be out
patroling for the heros? Seting up ambushes? Farming pigs?
>This model works for ship corridors, too. Still doesn't deter the
>munchkins who lug FGMP's into boarding actions, any more than the same
>players who toss fireballs into the corridors in D&D.
Geez, I remember getting a few fireballs in the back. I hate fireballs
in confined spaces, or as Tod would say, "When you cast fireball in a
corridor, it is no longer your friend."
I bid you peace.
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"
"I don't need Romance. I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
USS Excaliber.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 00:03:21 GMT
From: TML@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)
Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link.
"Kjeld Johansen" <kjeld@games.dk> writes:
>Hi, I’m new to this list, and I’m full of questions ;-)
Hi!
>Well, now to the questions ;-)
>How will it affect the Traveller universe, if this xboat-route is
>established?
It would ruin it ;-)
Seriously, the fact that the Domain of Deneb is relatively isolated
from the rest of the Imperium makes it culturally distinct (an
exciting frontier or a backwater, depending on your point of view). A
new communications link that was practical, high-volume and cut weeks
off the travel time to Capital would alter that significantly. OTOH,
if your proposed jump route was impractical for general/widespread use
- - perhaps for diplomatic reasons - its impact would be lessened.
It _would_ damage the "official" GDW timeline for the Rebellion and
Collapse, where the exact travel time and distance between Deneb and
the rest of the Imperium has some pretty far-reaching implications,
but since you're playing GT that shouldn't matter...
>I know about http://maps.grandsurvey.com/, but is this area described
>elsewhere?
I don't know about on-line sources, but the area was originally
described in the Classic Traveller adventure "Trillion Credit
Squadron" (currently available in reprint) and also covered in the
Regency sourcebook for TNE. Basically, it comprises half-a dozen or
so worlds, each with one or two colonies and all roughly equal in
power, and each waging constant warfare on any or all of the other
worlds in the cluster. The region was originally settled by Terran
colonists in STL ships, and acquired jump-drive when an Imperial
warship misjumped here a while ago, leading to the current massive
arms race and conflicts. It would be an *extremely* dangerous place
for a diplomatic mission or Imperial Way Station to be set up... I
gather the Scouts monitor the area, but in 1120 there's no official
Imperial presence.
>When the ship makes its first jump, it uses about half of the fuel. If it
>could reduce its volume like a harmonica, then it would save fuel (and total
>volume) for the second jump. Is there rules for this anywhere?
I'll leave that for the more technically-minded folks here to answer,
but be warned that the issue of collapsible fuel tanks, droptanks, etc
is quite a touchy subject...
Stephen
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 01:12:00 +0100
From: Holger Kadlez <paradin@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces
Acting President Thing wrote:
>
> On Friday, December 08, 2000 8:06 AM
> Douglas E. Berry said,
>
> > I've made Finns laugh. My quest is complete, I've achieved Godhood.
>
> Well, there is always the Germans.
>
> G.D.D.
;)
I have Ground Forces,
and I had to laugh sometimes while reading it.
Tschau,
Paradin
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 16:11:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link.
Stephen Tempest writes:
> It _would_ damage the "official" GDW timeline for the Rebellion and
> Collapse, where the exact travel time and distance between Deneb and
> the rest of the Imperium has some pretty far-reaching implications,
> but since you're playing GT that shouldn't matter...
Since those times are implausible even in the standard setting, doesn't
matter much. The only reason for X-boat routes being as slow as they are
is that they're really stupidly dexigned.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 19:27:42 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces
On Fri, 8 Dec 2000 05:56:43 -0500 (EST), "Mikko V. I. Parviainen"
<mvparvia@cc.hut.fi> wrote:
>There is an example of a soldier by name "Pekka Virta". Both first and
>surname are regular Finnish name. There is one slight but : "Pekka" is
>very common _male_ name, but the Ground Forces person is female. B-)
>Not that it couldn't change, but I thought this was fun, and perhaps
>unintentional.
Just as a related side remark, I wrote an article for the Traveller-Culture
list on Vilani names - a few Solomani names of English origin got absorbed
into Vilani, and some of those crossed gender at the same time. You
probably won't find a boy named Sue, but a boy named "Kaarin" (Karen) or a
girl named "Raadshir" (Roger) are distinct possibilities...
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
(Ask me via email about the ILink message network!)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 16:41:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces
On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
> Just as a related side remark, I wrote an article for the Traveller-Culture
> list on Vilani names - a few Solomani names of English origin got absorbed
> into Vilani, and some of those crossed gender at the same time. You
> probably won't find a boy named Sue, but a boy named "Kaarin" (Karen) or a
> girl named "Raadshir" (Roger) are distinct possibilities...
In Japanese, Maori, and Finnish, Kiri is a female name.
In several native Australian languages, it's a male name.
I found this out when a spammer emailed every Kiri he could find on the
net.
Kiri ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..." -- X-JAPAN
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 19:55:28 -0500
From: knightsky@juno.com
Subject: Re: An Alternative CharGen Method
> After you've done this, enlist in a career as per usual. Each
> term is
> resolved as usual, except that skills are handled differently. Roll
> an
> additional number of times equal to Int/5, rounding down. So a first
> term
> marine with an Int of 11 who gets commissioned but not promoted
> rolls 5
> times for skills.
> When the character musters out, select a number of 0-level skills
> for
> your character equal to Edu/3, rounding down. You're finished!
I like these options, and will probably use them for my next CT game.
Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 20:01:40 -0500
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: Nature of Imperial War
Paul Drye wrote:
[re: mercenaries]
>>Er... how is their "professionalism" not an ideology?
>
>Well, the specific meaning of the word "ideology" is "the ideas from
>which a system of economic or political thought derives". At the
>very least, it refers to the systems themselves.
Okay, that makes sense. I've just gotten used to its use in a less
teleological and more general sense, one that I don't feel like
trying to describe except to say it's horribly po-mo, and probably PC
to boot.
>The "big four" -- feudalism, capitalism, communism, and fascism --
>are at least arguably concerned with both the economic and
>political. "Professionalism" isn't, as it lacks the systematic
>nature of the others....
My fault; I should have included "their" in my quotation marks. What
I mean is, how is the "knowledge" that the necessity of mercenary
companies and their code of conduct not an "ideology", too? What
makes it different from the ideology of mass conscript armies, or of
professional citizen armies, or of strict pacifism?
Sorry if I'm not being clear; touch of the flu combined with
bartending for the World's Most Perfect Undergraduates. Addles the
noggin.
Kenji
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 14:08:20 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
On 8 Dec 00, at 11:39, John P. Raynor wrote:
> Is there any canonical information about which Terran nations (other than the
> United States of America) were "spacefaring powers" when first contact was
Adv 5 - Trillion Credit Squadron mentions the ESA (European Space
Agency), which implies the continued existance of the European Union.
But other than that no. In my work on the IW, I've postulated that during the
21st Century the nation state started to lose relevance, being replaced by
supra-national groupings (eg the European Union, NAFTA [yes I know
thats a trade pact] etc). So you have an increase in nationalism, with many
larger states breaking up, but at the same time, much of the powers
previously held by the nation state is transfered to perminant supra-national
alliances.
> made with the Vilani? Does anyone have a map of the Solomani Rim dating back
> to the Terran invention of the jump drive? It wouldn't be that hard to get a
> general idea of which worlds belonged to the First Imperium, and which were
> still untouched, by using the location of worlds with Vilani names, the known
> limitations of Vilani jump technology, and the subsector historical notes in
> the supplement on the Solomani Rim as guides, but I was hoping to avoid
> re-inventing the wheel...
In Galatic 2.4 there is a very rough review of the progress of the IW that I
did over a year ago. Its based on the DGP dot map from V&V, extropolated
to take the canon history of the wars into account. Its now somewhat out
of date, but it is a reasonable starting point.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 14:25:08 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
On 8 Dec 00, at 13:27, JFZeigler@aol.com wrote:
> Actually, the "expert" on the whole Interstellar Wars
> period is Andrew Moffatt-Vallence. He was effectively
> my co-author for the relevant sections of RIM OF FIRE,
> and should still be working on a whole book devoted
> to the period. I'd contact him.
BITS has given very tentative approval to the concept; and Micheal and I
are still plugging on. However, at the moment, I'm concentrating on my two
races for GT: Humaniti.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 20:27:56 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3370
> I find it very interesting, however, that there are so
> few canonical worlds with Russian and Chinese names. Perhaps "something
> bad" happened to those two at some point prior to the invention of the
> jump drive?
I think it is more likely that the people naming the worlds (not all of them
were from GDW) tended to drift towards western European Sources.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 15:05:34 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
On 8 Dec 00, at 17:17, John P. Raynor wrote:
> I'm trying to come up with a plausible list of "the top ten spacefaring
> nations" when the jump drive was invented at the end in the 21st century.
While this is more a matter for E21 than the IW, I'll have a stab at it.
USA (with clients in Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean and Central America
south to Honduras).
European Union (Europe up to the former USSR border but without Turkey).
Russian Federation (most of the former USSR, excluding the Baltic states,
but including Finland).
Arab Alliance (centred on Egypt and Saudi Arabia. Covers most of the
African Mediterranean, the Levant, Turkey, Iraq and Pakistan)
Subsaharan Alliance (South Africa and north to about Nigeria)
Indian Alliance (Centred and dominated by India, but including Iran,
Bangladesh, Burma and Afghanistan; Excludes Pakistan)
South American Alliance (Centred on Brazil, running north to Colombia,
includes Peru and Bolivia, excludes Argentina, Uruguay and Chile).
Japanese Alliance (Japan, Korea, Indochina, Sumatra and Tawian).
China (dominates Philipines, Malaysia and Borneo)
Australian Alliance (centred on Australia, includes NZ, PNG, Solomans,
Irain Jaya, Java)
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3371
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3372
Date: | 12/9/00 9:15:45 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Saturday, December 9 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3372
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
San Jose December Meet
Re: OT big time
Re: Timellords
Re: Timellords
Re: Timellords
Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
RE: Reft sector Xboat-link.
RE: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
Re: OT big time
RE: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
Re: Timellords
: Re: High velocity ATmissile
Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
Re: OT big time
RE: Reft sector Xboat-link.
Re: Taking Ship Design Requests....
RE: Reft sector Xboat-link.
Atmosphere question
Re: Silly adventure idea
Re: Ground Forces
Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
Re: Atmosphere question
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 21:40:02 -0500
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
In the "for what it's worth" category:
"People of Terran descent are easy [to name] (that's almost everyone in the
Spinward Marches and about 70% of those in the Solomani Rim). Just choose a
first name from any modern Terran language and a last name from any Terran
language (most likely a different one -- the population was well-mixed
during the Interstellar wars and subsequent migrations). Don't confine
yourself to European languages; Chinese, Japanese, and various Southeast
Asian tongues should be prominent, as should languages from the Indian
subcontinent, with African languages somewhat less common."
"Random Notes," John Harshman, JTAS #17, p.45. (1983)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 19:23:56 -0800
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
Subject: San Jose December Meet
Hi All,
There won't be a December meet of the San Jose Traveller Group. I'll be
busy packing for the holidays and I'm sure everyone else will be busy
getting ready for the holidays as well.
We'll meet again in January, probably the third weekend. Suggestions
for the next game?
Kristian
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 22:35:31 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: OT big time
> My main problem with dungeons is how did they get there? I mean I can
> understand lairs, but how come do you have all of those monsters living in
> the same place & they are not fighting it out or working together.
My dungeon was created by a mad wizard of undreamt of power and a warped
sense of humor, for reasons of his own. Adventurers deep in the bowels of the
place once encountered a little guy with a pushbroom and a bin on wheels.
Another encounter involved two guys pushing a wheelbarrow containing a bag
labeled "Purina Dragon Chow"
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 19:32:30 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Timellords
In mail you write:
> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> In mail you write:
>
>> That put an end to the "we can stand should to shoulder in the corridor
>> and mow down the orcs" nonsense. :-)
>
> Well, the orcs are going to have just as much trouble.
> And this leads directly to the "We can stand shoulder to shoulder in the
> corridor and shish-kebab the orcs with our spears!"
Which is why you carry long hafted axes to chop the ends off the
spears.
There's also this problem with turning around with long shafted
weapons. One DM let a party get several hundred feet into a dungeon and
then they tried to turn a corner... they wound up leaving behind the
polearms they'd paid so much money for. And of course they were gone
when they got back.
> Shield walls work really well in these situations, as do larger versions
> (what we invented was a big siege engine-ish shield with nasty spikes
> sticking out of it, constructed with wheels on a long ram. It basically
> covered the entire width and height of the corridor. Everyone pitched in
> and trundled it along the corridor. Called it 'The Dungeon Squeegee'.
> ;-) The GM let us get away with it...once. After that all his dungeons
> had passages of varying sizes...
> This model works for ship corridors, too. Still doesn't deter the
> munchkins who lug FGMP's into boarding actions, any more than the same
> players who toss fireballs into the corridors in D&D.
I had the misfortune to be in a party where a character's mage cast a
fireball at an ochre jelly he was "standing in". At the time, we were
in a 10 foot wide corridor....
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 19:54:05 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Timellords
In mail you write:
> Bruce Johnson
>> Shield walls work really well in these situations, as do larger
>> versions (what we invented was a big siege engine-ish shield
>> with nasty spikes sticking out of it, constructed with wheels
>> on a long ram. It basically covered the entire width and height
>> of the corridor. Everyone pitched in and trundled it along the
>> corridor. Called it 'The Dungeon Squeegee'. ;-) The GM let us
>> get away with it...once. After that all his dungeons had
>> passages of varying sizes...
>
> In the film "Labyrinth" the operators of such a device were
> called "The Cleaners".
Heck, we all figured that was why some demented wizard/alchemist
created the gelatinous cube. :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 19:54:49 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Timellords
In mail you write:
> Correct, but then again, why play orcs as mindless beasts? When I used
> to run AD&D, I ran orcs as cunning & able combatants. I really pissed off a
> lot of players & got a rep as a "Killer DM" when I had the orcs use good
> tactics against them.
I found it was more fun (and logical) for the kobolds to be the tricky
ones. After all, being that small and weak, they can only be walking
lunches for everything else, or they have to be very cunning.
> If you think about it, you are attacking an entrenched position, against
> an able enemy. You have no real chance if the orcs are strak about things.
"Strak"? You been hanging around those Legionaires too long...
<g>
>
> My main problem with dungeons is how did they get there? I mean I can
> understand lairs, but how come do you have all of those monsters living in
> the same place & they are not fighting it out or working together.
> OK, now if you have a dragon, then he may have a few minions around, but
> why are they always sitting around on their hands? shouldn't they be out
> patroling for the heros? Seting up ambushes? Farming pigs?
I once started trying to "model" the population of a dungeon (I had
some formulas for what sort of population was required for a given rate
of movement and area covered, but I've long since forgotten where I got
them). But I had too many unkowns, and didn't have a computer at the
time.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 20:06:21 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
In mail you write:
>>I believe the dot-map in DGP's "Solomani and Aslan" is set in the Rebellion
>>timeframe.
>
> I found the map I was thinking of, p. 11 of "Vilani & Vargr". Its legend
> includes the notation "CIRCA -3500 (Imperial Calendar)", so about the year
> 1000 AD. However, as noted, the Ziru Sirka wasn't changing very much in that
> time period.
>
> Cross-referencing that map with the Solomani Rim subsector maps at Ethan
> Henry's web site, I came up with the following results:
>
> - The Vilani occupied every planet in the two first rows of subsectors:
> Ultima, Suleiman, Concord, Harlequin, Alderamin, Esperance, Vega, and
> Banasdan.
>
> - In Aldabawi subsector, they had all planets except Alizarin and Krypton.
Well, we *know* why they didn't have Krypton... :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 13:43:25 -0000
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
Subject: RE: Reft sector Xboat-link.
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Kjeld Johansen
Sent: Friday, 8 December 2000 11:06 PM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link.
Hi, I’m new to this list, and I’m full of questions ;-)
In my GT campaign is the Vargr giving troubles in the Corridor sector, so to
maintain a steady communication link from the Capital to the Spinward
Marches sector, are the IISS planning to make an Xboat-link through the Reft
sector.
This route will go by Cerebin (0217) > Zuflucht (0921) > Serendip Belt
(1323) > Elysee (1525) > New Home (1925) > Amondiage (2325) > Eskandor
(3028).
The first and the last of these jumps will demand a Jump-7, and for this job
there have been designed a 220-Ton Serendip-Class Express Boat [G:TL 12].
This is basically a standard xboat, with expanded fuel capacity.
The larges problem with this xboat-route is that it’s going through
non-Imperial territories, and it will be a major diplomatic success it the
route is established.
220-Ton Serendip-Class Express Boat [TL 12] {Gurps: Traveller}
220-ton USL Hull (internal spaces 220, mass 10, cost 2.4, area 11000)
Armor DR 100 (mass 22, cost 0.264)
Sealed (cost 0.11)
Basic Bridge (spaces 2.5, mass 7.3, cost 3.1)
Communications 3 (spaces 36, mass 414.3, cost 11.49)
Engineering (spaces 1, mass 3.7, cost 0.16)
Utility (spaces 1, mass 11.5, cost 0.25)
Stateroom 2 (spaces 8, mass 4, cost 0.0024)
Jump 11 (spaces 11, mass 44, cost 33.55)
Fuel 154 (spaces 154, mass 200.2, cost 24.64)
Cargo: 6.5.
Statistics: EMass 717, LMass 749.5, Cost MCr 75.97, HP 16500. Hull Size
Modifier: +9.
Performance: Jump 4.
Well, now to the questions ;-)
How will it affect the Traveller universe, if this xboat-route is
established?
I know about http://maps.grandsurvey.com/, but is this area described
elsewhere?
When the ship makes its first jump, it uses about half of the fuel. If it
could reduce its volume like a harmonica, then it would save fuel (and total
volume) for the second jump. Is there rules for this anywhere?
Kjeld (Denmark).
I thought that canon established that the maximum jump range with current
therory was jump-6. Jump-7 would mean a new theory missed by the ancients,
and would have the effect of shrinking the empire.
Antony
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 13:43:17 -0000
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
Subject: RE: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Andrew
Moffatt-Vallance
Sent: Saturday, 9 December 2000 2:06 AM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
On 8 Dec 00, at 17:17, John P. Raynor wrote:
> I'm trying to come up with a plausible list of "the top ten spacefaring
> nations" when the jump drive was invented at the end in the 21st century.
While this is more a matter for E21 than the IW, I'll have a stab at it.
USA (with clients in Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean and Central America
south to Honduras).
European Union (Europe up to the former USSR border but without Turkey).
Russian Federation (most of the former USSR, excluding the Baltic states,
but including Finland).
Arab Alliance (centred on Egypt and Saudi Arabia. Covers most of the
African Mediterranean, the Levant, Turkey, Iraq and Pakistan)
Subsaharan Alliance (South Africa and north to about Nigeria)
Indian Alliance (Centred and dominated by India, but including Iran,
Bangladesh, Burma and Afghanistan; Excludes Pakistan)
South American Alliance (Centred on Brazil, running north to Colombia,
includes Peru and Bolivia, excludes Argentina, Uruguay and Chile).
Japanese Alliance (Japan, Korea, Indochina, Sumatra and Tawian).
China (dominates Philipines, Malaysia and Borneo)
Australian Alliance (centred on Australia, includes NZ, PNG, Solomans,
Irain Jaya, Java)
Very interesting. I can see a few problems with this arrangement, especially
with the "Australian Alliance". I do not believe it would have the economic
strength to build an A class starport, but one of the three (La Grange) is
in Western Australia. Who paid for it?
Extrapolating from current trends and recent history, this Alliance would
likely be subsumed in either the Japanese or American one, or given our
politicians tendency to fence sit both. In my Banners Sector campaign I had
a American-Japanese-Australian group colonising large portions of the sector
in ships built at the same time as the ESA missions to the Islands Cluster,
but using smaller buzzard rams. More ships for the credit.
Antony
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 00:03:00 -0600
From: Brandon Cope <copeab@elc.net>
Subject: Re: OT big time
GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> > My main problem with dungeons is how did they get there? I mean I can
> > understand lairs, but how come do you have all of those monsters living in
> > the same place & they are not fighting it out or working together.
>
> My dungeon was created by a mad wizard of undreamt of power and a warped
> sense of humor, for reasons of his own. Adventurers deep in the bowels of the
> place once encountered a little guy with a pushbroom and a bin on wheels.
> Another encounter involved two guys pushing a wheelbarrow containing a bag
> labeled "Purina Dragon Chow"
I knew a GM who, once, in the *one* tunnel leading ouf the dungeon, placed a
balding little man behind a desk. You couldn't fight the Tax Man, you couldn't
sneak around the Tax Man -- your only choices were to turn around and fight your
way back out of the dungon or give the Tax Man what was his books and ledgers
told him was his.
And some players complain about fighting dragons or demons ...
A generous and sadistic GM,
Brandon Cope
http://www.geocities.com/copeab
*** new: generic adventure seeds and Traveller page ***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 19:34:14 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: RE: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
On 9 Dec 00, at 13:43, Antony Farrell wrote:
> Very interesting. I can see a few problems with this arrangement, especially
> with the "Australian Alliance". I do not believe it would have the economic
> strength to build an A class starport, but one of the three (La Grange) is in
> Western Australia. Who paid for it?
Actually, I think the Arab, Subsaharan are very unlikely, and the
Australian, Indian and Brazilian ones marginal. But the original post did
ask for the top ten.
> Extrapolating from current trends and recent history, this Alliance would
> likely be subsumed in either the Japanese or American one, or given our
> politicians tendency to fence sit both. In my Banners Sector campaign I
> had a American-Japanese-Australian group colonising large portions of
> the sector in ships built at the same time as the ESA missions to the
> Islands Cluster, but using smaller buzzard rams. More ships for the
> credit.
In my quick sketch E21 history, I have Indonesia (which is essentially an
Empire dominated by Java) breaking up, with Australia (bringing NZ etc in
tow) being sucked into the resulting mess. The USA starts its long decline
around 2020-30 (the Starleaper mission is actually an attempt to regain its
former power and prestigue) in the face of the rising powers of Europe and
Asia. Japan also enters a decline (though less severe than the USA) for
the same reasons leading to a revival of nationalism and corresponding fear
in Asia and Australia.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 22:37:35 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Timellords
>From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com>
>Why else do you think that the Roman 'gladius' was a short _thrusting_
weapon? ;o)
Aren't there even passages in De Re Militaribus that cover fighting orcs in
passageways with gladius and spear? Something like, "milites Romanorum
gladiis sagittisque orcem pugnabant." I'm sure we read that in Latin class.
Luther? What do you think?
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 22:42:34 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: : Re: High velocity ATmissile
>From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
>One more point is that you can't really design a round vehicle with the
>Striker rules as written, if you are following them exactly. They require a
>vehicle to have a length, width, and height, and calculate the volume as l
x
>w x h. So designing a round vehicle runs up against possible objections
from
>purists (although I am certainly not one).
That's really fundamentalist purism. The bottom line in Striker vehicle
design is volume. We can determine the volume of a round object without too
much difficulty.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 22:51:24 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
>While this is more a matter for E21 than the IW, I'll have a stab at it.
>Russian Federation (most of the former USSR, excluding the Baltic states,
>but including Finland).
Don't bet on Finland going into a federation with Russia willingly, or
staying in it willingly. 1808 to 1918 was quite plenty.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 20:01:32 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
On 8 Dec 00, at 22:51, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> >From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
> >Russian Federation (most of the former USSR, excluding the Baltic states, but
> >including Finland).
> Don't bet on Finland going into a federation with Russia willingly, or
> staying in it willingly. 1808 to 1918 was quite plenty.
The alliances are pimarily economic (read trade associations) with some
political functions added on top. They are not unified states, more power
blocs.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 23:16:09 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: OT big time
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
>> My main problem with dungeons is how did they get there? I mean I
can
>> understand lairs, but how come do you have all of those monsters living
in
>> the same place & they are not fighting it out or working together.
>
>My dungeon was created by a mad wizard of undreamt of power and a warped
>sense of humor, for reasons of his own. Adventurers deep in the bowels of
the
>place once encountered a little guy with a pushbroom and a bin on wheels.
>Another encounter involved two guys pushing a wheelbarrow containing a bag
>labeled "Purina Dragon Chow"
LOL. Did they ever encounter the Magic Police?
Really, why create a dungeon? If you have that much power why not take
over a nation or two? How many Fantasy Novels have a dungeon delve compared
to the ones that don't?
I bid you peace.
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"
"I don't need Romance. I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
USS Excaliber.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 00:14:40 -0800
From: "tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@bigfoot.com>
Subject: RE: Reft sector Xboat-link.
- ---
I thought that canon established that the maximum jump range with current
theory was jump-6. Jump-7 would mean a new theory missed by the ancients,
and would have the effect of shrinking the empire.
Antony
- ---
I think that the ship postulated does not make one J-7, but rather a J-4 and
then (via onboard fuel) a J-3.
- ---
When the ship makes its first jump, it uses about half of the fuel. If it
could reduce its volume like a harmonica, then it would save fuel (and total
volume) for the second jump. Is there rules for this anywhere?
- ---
Hehehehe. Yes, there are in CT. They are called 'Jump Tanks' and work like
stages on a 'modern' rocket - IE you ditch the fuel tanks after they are
used up. An expensive way to go, but it will work.
Actually, this _might_ put to rest the Jump Tank Flame war. IMTU Jump Tanks
work - but you cannot ditch them until _after_ the jump (my jump is the
hydrogen spewing kind), which makes them a wee bit pointless except for
instances like this, where a shorter ranged ship needs to travel a long way
w/o refueling.
IMHO using this will not do to much violence to the OTU - as the cases where
they will actually come in handy are rare - AND they are a one shot deal.
One jump using the Jtanks and one with out. If you could come up with a 200
ton jump tank for a Scout Courier - you could actually get 5 jump 1's and
one Jump 2 out of it. Not actually very useful, but a cool concept! :)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 01:25:32 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Taking Ship Design Requests....
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
>As the end of the semester approaches, I find myself anticipating some
>free time. With that in mind, are there any requests for starship
>designs from AuricTech Shipyards (using FF&S2)?
>
>I'll probably post a couple of designs over the next month or so anyway,
>but I'd be quite willing to entertain requests at this time.
How about a TL:8 STL Sleepership like the ones the Terrans used to
colonize much of this neck of the Galaxy?
I bid you peace.
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"
"I don't need Romance. I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
USS Excaliber.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 03:19:53 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: RE: Reft sector Xboat-link.
On 12/09/00 at 12:14 AM, "tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@bigfoot.com> said:
<snip>
>IMHO using this will not do to much violence to the OTU - as the
>cases where they will actually come in handy are rare - AND they
>are a one shot deal. One jump using the Jtanks and one with out. If
>you could come up with a 200 ton jump tank for a Scout Courier -
>you could actually get 5 jump 1's and one Jump 2 out of it. Not
>actually very useful, but a cool concept! :)
I think he'd be better off keeping all tankage internal and not get into the whole drop tank thing because of all the side-effect issues, just my opinion.
As to the proposed X-boat route, which was the original question, I think. I don't think it's a bad idea, nor would it do major violence to anything in the setting, *but* given the area it's going through I think I'd make it very dangerous. Messages sent along the Rift route couldn't be assured of every arriving, due to the dangers in the area.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 23:39:47 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Atmosphere question
Is there any way in which an atmosphere could naturally produce a
cyanogen taint? and what concentrations would it require before it became
a problem?
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 06:07:24 -0600
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net>
Subject: Re: Silly adventure idea
At 12:33 AM 12/8/00 PST, Shadow wrote:
>I just got back from a friend's where we watched her new DVD of the
>*original* (1970s) "Gone In 60 Seconds".
>
>It occurs to me that it'd be interesting to try that with, say, air
>rafts. Or maybe even ground vehicles. Either with the PCs being the
>folks hauling the cargo out of the system, or the ones hired to get
>them.
I thought doing an adventure based on the film and novel THE DOGS OF WAR
was a neat idea. I set it on Ruie in the Regina Subsector. I worked up the
TO&E of the opposing forces and drew up maps of the target area and the
presidential compound.
I gave the PC's a free trader to haul their troops and gear. Instead of
offloading the troops and having a proper firefight they hovered over the
target and hosed it with the ship's lasers.
I still had fun with the corrupt customs officer. ;-)
Les
====================================
Revolutionaries are not nice people.
====================================
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 14:10:00 +0200 (EET)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces
On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
> In Japanese, Maori, and Finnish, Kiri is a female name.
Well, Kiri is not a Finnish name. One could probably get it, but it would
be after a long session with bureucracy. B-)
- --
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 12:48:37 -0000
From: "Mark S Peace" <mark.s.peace@dunelm.org.uk>
Subject: Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 15:05:34 +1300
> From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
> Subject: Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
>
> On 8 Dec 00, at 17:17, John P. Raynor wrote:
>
> > I'm trying to come up with a plausible list of "the top ten spacefaring
> > nations" when the jump drive was invented at the end in the 21st
century.
>
> While this is more a matter for E21 than the IW, I'll have a stab at it.
>
> USA (with clients in Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean and Central America
> south to Honduras).
>
> European Union (Europe up to the former USSR border but without Turkey).
>
> Russian Federation (most of the former USSR, excluding the Baltic states,
> but including Finland.)
Given that Finland is part of the European Union, this seems a bit strange.
Mark.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 14:01:20 +0100
From: "Patrik Holmström" <glappkaeft@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
>Russian Federation (most of the former USSR, excluding the Baltic states,
>but including Finland).
I can't really see Finland leaving the EU (I don't belive that is even an
option at the present) and joining Russia (the last county to invade
Finland) of all countries. What is you motivation?
Patrik Holmström
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 09:02:05 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Atmosphere question
In mail you write:
> Is there any way in which an atmosphere could naturally produce a
> cyanogen taint? and what concentrations would it require before it became
> a problem?
Refresh my memory. Just what *is* cyanogen?
My vague memories of what it is (some sort of carbon/nitrogen compound,
(CN)2 maybe?) indicate that it *can't* last long in an oxygen
atmosphere. So the source would *have* to be biological.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3372
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3373
Date: | 12/9/00 5:48:00 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Saturday, December 9 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3373
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: OT big time
RE: Timellords
RE: OT big time
RE: Silly adventure idea
Re : Atmosphere question
Re: Timellords
Re: Timellords
Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
Re: Ground Forces
RE: Ground Forces
OT: DUNE RPG
RE: : Re: High velocity ATmissile
CHView under Linux
Re: OT big time
Wahoo. Bagged TD 9, 10 on EBAY ;-)
Re: OT big time
Re: OT big time
Alternative Campaigns
Re: OT big time
Re: OT big time
Re: OT big time
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 08:49:19
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: OT big time
At 10:35 PM 12/8/2000 EST, you wrote:
> My main problem with dungeons is how did they get there? I mean I can
> understand lairs, but how come do you have all of those monsters living in
> the same place & they are not fighting it out or working together.
I liked the solution used by FASA's _Earthdawn_. They are shelters used
during some great war or event, entire cities carved out of the Earth.
During the cataclysm, some of them fell, and were occupied by various
hordes of nasties.
BTW, saw the Dungeons & Dragons movie last night. It's not _Citizen Kane_,
but it is worth a look. Go to a matinee show. Probably the best part was
the trailer for Pearl Harbor. One shot of two kids at the top of Kole Kole
Pass watching dozens of Zekes fly past them was stunning. This one is
going to be good.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 09:31:19 -0800
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: RE: Timellords
Glenn Goffin wrote:
> Aren't there even passages in De Re Militaribus that cover
> fighting orcs in
> passageways with gladius and spear? Something like, "milites Romanorum
> gladiis sagittisque orcem pugnabant." I'm sure we read that in
> Latin class.
> Luther? What do you think?
I think that I remember translating that as "And the sage Cicero gladly
walked towards Rome for a thousand paces," but then I was a really, really
bad Latin student.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 09:38:42 -0800
From: "tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@bigfoot.com>
Subject: RE: OT big time
We saw it too - but did not see that trailer - Sheesh that's what I get for
living in the complete Styx.
The movie was not too bad - I agree about the matinee option, and be
prepared to witness many graduates of the Shatner School of Acting.
- -----Original Message-----
BTW, saw the Dungeons & Dragons movie last night. It's not _Citizen Kane_,
but it is worth a look. Go to a matinee show. Probably the best part was
the trailer for Pearl Harbor. One shot of two kids at the top of Kole Kole
Pass watching dozens of Zekes fly past them was stunning. This one is
going to be good.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 09:43:26 -0800
From: "tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@bigfoot.com>
Subject: RE: Silly adventure idea
I ran a similar adventure - but it was set out side of the borders of the
Imperium.
My enterprising characters snuck down in a launch they had, (They were in a
slightly modified far trader) hoofed it to a hill over looking the compound,
and started to call orbital laser and missile fire from the ship.
That was another short one.
- -----Original Message-----
I thought doing an adventure based on the film and novel THE DOGS OF WAR
was a neat idea. I set it on Ruie in the Regina Subsector. I worked up the
TO&E of the opposing forces and drew up maps of the target area and the
presidential compound.
I gave the PC's a free trader to haul their troops and gear. Instead of
offloading the troops and having a proper firefight they hovered over the
target and hosed it with the ship's lasers.
I still had fun with the corrupt customs officer. ;-)
Les
====================================
Revolutionaries are not nice people.
====================================
------------------------------
Date: Sun, Dec 10 2000 4:44:09 GMT+1100
From: robocon@ozemail.com.au
Subject: Re : Atmosphere question
Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote :-
> Is there any way in which an atmosphere could naturally produce a
> cyanogen taint? and what concentrations would it require before it
> became a problem?
<quick Google search>
..
</quick Google search>
Cyanogen : ethanedinitrile (CN)2
Highly toxic and flammable (6.6-32% mixtures with air) ;
lethal concentration after 1 hour is 350ppm for the rat.
10 hour exposure limit is 10ppm (statutory/OSHA)
In a putative biosphere, it must be a product of biological
or geological action, requiring replenishment.
This stuff basically behaves like cyanide gas.
Basically, I'd choose something else for an exotic taint for a G:T
human minor race. The required alterations to haemoglobin and
cytochromes to render humans immune to cyanide would need to be
profound ; the genes for both these molecules have been tightly
preserved by evolution.
Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer
This message was sent through MyMail http://www.mymail.com.au
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 19:14:05 +0000
From: Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Timellords
At 21:02 -0500 8/12/00, Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:
>This model works for ship corridors, too. Still doesn't deter the
>munchkins who lug FGMP's into boarding actions, any more than the same
>players who toss fireballs into the corridors in D&D.
Bruce, surely wearing Battledress and carrying an FGMP 15 is merely
'sensible' if you absolutely must perform a boarding action in the
face of the enemy. I think harsh words and a Tux may fail ;-)
Dom
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 11:46:11 -0800
From: sneadj@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: Timellords
shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
Re: Timellords
>
> In mail you write:
>
> > Bruce Johnson
> >> Shield walls work really well in these situations, as do larger
> >> versions (what we invented was a big siege engine-ish shield with
> >> nasty spikes sticking out of it, constructed with wheels on a long
> >> ram. It basically covered the entire width and height of the
> >> corridor. Everyone pitched in and trundled it along the corridor.
> >> Called it 'The Dungeon Squeegee'. ;-) The GM let us get away with
> >> it...once. After that all his dungeons had passages of varying
> >> sizes...
> >
> > In the film "Labyrinth" the operators of such a device were
> > called "The Cleaners".
>
> Heck, we all figured that was why some demented wizard/alchemist
> created the gelatinous cube. :-)
My group had a different explanation. We always figured that the
world had had dungeons for the last several million years, and the a
whole bunch of life had evolved to live there. Gelatinous cubes
were merely a lifeform evolved specifically for 10x10 corridors.
One can go from there to dungeons created by pre-human
unnamable prehumans and similar fun Cthulhu/D&D crossovers.
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 21:06:59 +0100
From: "Kjeld Johansen" <kjeld@games.dk>
Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
> I thought that canon established that the maximum jump range with current
> therory was jump-6. Jump-7 would mean a new theory missed by the ancients,
> and would have the effect of shrinking the empire.
From: "tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@bigfoot.com>
> I think that the ship postulated does not make one J-7, but rather a J-4
and
> then (via onboard fuel) a J-3.
You are correct. That was the idea.
> - ---
> When the ship makes its first jump, it uses about half of the fuel. If it
> could reduce its volume like a harmonica, then it would save fuel (and
total
> volume) for the second jump. Is there rules for this anywhere?
> - ---
> Hehehehe. Yes, there are in CT. They are called 'Jump Tanks' and work like
> stages on a 'modern' rocket - IE you ditch the fuel tanks after they are
> used up. An expensive way to go, but it will work.
[...]
> IMHO using this will not do to much violence to the OTU - as the cases
where
> they will actually come in handy are rare - AND they are a one shot deal.
> One jump using the Jtanks and one with out. If you could come up with a
200
> ton jump tank for a Scout Courier - you could actually get 5 jump 1's and
> one Jump 2 out of it. Not actually very useful, but a cool concept! :)
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
> I think he'd be better off keeping all tankage internal and not get into
the whole drop
> tank thing because of all the side-effect issues, just my opinion.
Hmm, I have been thinking about this.
If you can drop or reduce the volume of the fuel-tank then you can just add
more fuel capacity and be capable of traveling further without refueling. A
100-Ton jump-6 ship could add a 167-Ton fuel-tank and make an extra jump-6,
and a 444-Ton fuel-tank to make one more. The 3rd tank should be 1185-Ton,
making it an 1896-Ton ship capable of traveling across a 24 parsec rift.
This would change the OTU, where I thing a 10 parsec rift is impassable
unless you uses an STL-ship.
Conclusion: IMTU drop-tanks and reducible fuel-tanks is impossible. Now I
just have to come up with an explanation. Any suggestions?
> As to the proposed X-boat route, which was the original question, I think.
I don't think
> it's a bad idea, nor would it do major violence to anything in the
setting, *but* given the
> area it's going through I think I'd make it very dangerous. Messages sent
along the Rift
> route couldn't be assured of every arriving, due to the dangers in the
area.
Okay, I will continue with this plot. It is a difficult diplomatic task, but
it's worth the effort. It is also dangerous to travel through Corridor, and
the 3I hopes that the small kingdoms one day might become client states.
Now to a new question:
How many x-boats do you need for a route? How often does they arrive?
If you have one arrival a day, the a route there goes from A to B to C needs
about 28 x-boats plus some in reserve or maintenance plus 3 Tenders. That is
expensive!
Kjeld.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 12:09:15 -0800
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces
From: Mikko V. I. Parviainen <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
>On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
>> On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
>> In Japanese, Maori, and Finnish, Kiri is a female name.
>
>Well, Kiri is not a Finnish name. One could probably get it, but it would
be after a long session with bureucracy. B-)
>
I didn't know that, thanks.
Several of the Kiris that I met as a result of the "spam all the Kiris on
the net" event were in Finland so I thought it was a Finnish name.
Do you really have to have your government approve your choice of name?
Wow. I know you have to do that in France.
Something that always amuses me and annoys me at the same time is that
often, in Japan, if you are not a Japanese citizen but have a Japanese name
they will write it in katakana like it was a foreign word (the katakana
syllabary is only used for foreign words, though some of them are Chinese
and have been in use so long they might as well be Japanese). Often,
especially, if your name is only part Japanese, like:
Kiri Morgan
Mike Tatsugawa
Kenji Schwarz
they will write the whole thing in katakana officially, even though people
who know you will probably write the Japanese part of your name in kanji or
hiragana.
Part of this is, I suppose, that some names can be written more than one
way. As most people can't see the characters, there's no point in putting
them into this mail, but my name can be written using characters meaning
"fog" (the correct way in my case) or "a paulownia tree" (which is actually
more common). Also some people change their characters. My friend Yukiko's
family originally named her using the character "snow" but changed it to
characters meaning "to rise up for reason".
Kiri
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 10:18:38 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: Ground Forces
Mikko V. I. Parviainen wrote :
> > On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
> > In Japanese, Maori, and Finnish, Kiri is a female name.
>
> Well, Kiri is not a Finnish name. One could probably get it, but it would
> be after a long session with bureucracy. B-)
Does Finland have the same ridiculous rules as France about names ?
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 15:43:54 -0600
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: OT: DUNE RPG
Just a little OT tid-bit about the new DUNE role playing game--
There's a lot of interest in DUNE right now.
The SciFi mini-series just ended, and there's another SciFi DUNE
mini-series in the works (The second mini-series is supposed to cover
DUNE Messiah and Children of DUNE).
Frank Herbert's son, Brian Herbert (with freakin' Kevin Anderson--one of
the worst authors ever to set pen to paper), is writing a trilogy of
prequels to Frank's masterpiece series of novels (the first prequel is
in paperback now, the second is in hardback, and a third one is coming).
And there is talk that Brian will write the seventh book in the original
DUNE series, tentatively titled DUNE 7, using the scarce notes on the
story left by his father.
I didn't know that the novel, DUNE, is the most widely-read science
fiction novel in history--I mean, the book has sold more copies than any
other sci-fi book...ever. That's amazing if you consider some of the
great sci-fi books we have been treated to over the ages. (I am reading
DUNE now, for the first time--almost done with it, and I'll admit, it is
one of the best books I've ever read.)
What I did know, though, was that DUNE had a huge influence on Traveller
when the game was created. Like other best selling science fiction
works of the time (Foundation, for example), you can see DUNE's imprint
in the game.
As I read through DUNE, it feels very Traveller-esque to me--as a matter
of fact, I'd say it is the best "Traveller" novel I've ever read (at
least it feels like one of my games--not sure how you run yours).
Traveller was, after all, created as a rule system that could be applied
to any science fiction background (Traveller's rich "Imperium"
background grew up in the game later)--kind of like a science fiction
GURPS system, developed waaay before GURPS was a gleam in SJG's eye.
It is appropriate that DUNE has finally found it's own RPG. It's been a
long time coming. For those of you not familiar with the new game, I'll
give you a little background.
The DUNE RPG, officially titled DUNE: Chronicles of the Imperium, has
been published by Last Unicorn Games. It came out last August,
premiering at GENCON.
LUG, if you don't know, is the game company that has done a spectacular
job on their series of RPGs set in the STAR TREK universe. Their books
look great (full color, hardback rule books, well thought out game
mechanics, superb presentation), and their D6 based Icon game mechanics
system is very similar to the rules you see in most of the Traveller
rules sets.
LUG did an excellent job on the DUNE core rule book. It's a full-color,
hardback book, that has all the necessities for a core rule book
(character generation, equipment, vehicles, task system, other rules to
run the game, etc...), but what I like most about it are the number of
pages devoted to the DUNE universe. Over half the book is dedicated to
explaining the history, culture, science, and other imaginitive aspects
associated with DUNE.
It's a great read even if you are not planning on running a DUNE game
and you just want to delve into facinating universe that Frank Herbert
created (he deserved that doggone Hugo...AND that doggone Nebula Award).
Every aspect of DUNE is covered in the book--you can read about ALL of
the Great Houses, learn about their homeworlds, explore the deep dark
mysteries of the Bene Gesserit Sisterhood, educate yourself on the
different aspects of the Spice Melange...learn about how the Spacing
Guild uses its huge carrier-starships to fold space...read about the
problems Nobles face in governing the direction of their House...etc.
And the characters you can play--your imagination is the limit. You can
play...
...a Bene Gesserit-trained House Adept, instructed in the "weirding"
ways........a House Assassin, master of the art of Kanly........a Master
House Strategist, or a CHOAM Advisor, advising your liege according to
your particular field of expertise or counceling your House in all CHOAM
affairs........a House Mentat, the ultimate achievement in human mental
training........a Noble (of course)........a Swordmaster, master of the
sword, the personal shield, and the ritual forms of Kanly........a House
Suk, who is caretaker of the noble bloodline........or even a spice
smuggler...a slave...a diplomat...a House Physician...a Fremen Rebel...a
spymaster...a warmaster...a weapons master...a gladiator...a
privateer...a sleeper agent...a Trusthsayer...a Sardaukar
Commando........the list ends when you stop comming up with ideas that
fit into your DUNE universe.
After LUG had done such a spectacular job putting this DUNE book
together, WotC stepped in and bought the company. Their plans are to
re-release the DUNE RPG, but they're going to do it in about six months
(scheduled for May, according to the WotC website)--and they're going to
re-release the game using the d20 system.
Well...
There are those out there who do not like the d20 system (I, for one, do
like d20, but I do not think it is appropriate for every game--like what
they've done with the new d20 version of the Star Wars RPG. The d20
WotC version is OK, but West End Games' D6 version was much better.)
And, there are those out there who want to play DUNE now--not six months
from now (an adventure is included in the core rule book)--and will use
the coversion that is promised in the WotC printing when that book comes
out.
And, there are those out there who just want to get the DUNE book for
its large volume of background information.
And, there are those out there who are collectors, wanting the LUG
version of the game because it is a limited edtion ("limited edition" is
printed right there on the cover).
Given all this, and the fact that there were only 3000 printed, the LUG
version of the DUNE game has become a collector's item, sought by a
large number of DUNE fans.
I mention all of this for three reasons: DUNE would make an excellent
universe to game in, using the DUNE core book as an expansion module for
your Traveller game (Icon rules translate easily to Traveller rules); I
know that there are some of you here on the TML who are as interested in
DUNE as you are in Traveller (because the DUNE universe is similar and
just as facinating as the Traveller universe); and I know that there
may be someone out there who is dying to get his hands on one of these
limited edition copies.
If you are one of these people, you'll be pleased to know that I have a
single copy of the DUNE core rule book up for auction on eBay.
I have gone into detail, on my auction page, explaining what exactly you
get in the book, so if you want additional information on the game,
check out my eBay auction (even if just for the info on what's in the
book) and check out LUG's information about the book on their website
(WotC has little info up on the game at this time).
So, how do you find my eBay auction?
Simple.
4 easy steps.
(1) Go to the main page at eBay.com
(2) Use the "smart search" option, located next to the search box.
(3) This will take you to a page where you can "search by seller".
Click on that link and simply type in my e-mail address:
dreamer@brokersys.com
(4) This will take you to a page listing all of my auctions (just the
DUNE book today, but I've got some D&D things coming). Click on the
DUNE link.
Kenneth.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 15:51:16 -0800
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: RE: : Re: High velocity ATmissile
Glenn Goffin wrote:
> >w x h. So designing a round vehicle runs up against possible objections
> from
> >purists (although I am certainly not one).
>
> That's really fundamentalist purism. The bottom line in Striker vehicle
> design is volume. We can determine the volume of a round object
> without too
> much difficulty.
The problem, as was mentioned earlier in the discussion of house rules, is
what people will consider to be a reasonable extension or modification of
the rules will probably vary from person to person. Once you admit the
possibility of modifications to the rules, no matter how minor, you have
ventured into that gray area.
This is why I maintain that you really need a referee for Striker. If you
strictly interpret it as a game which stands by itself, then you play it one
way. If you interpret it as an extension to the Traveller game system for
resolving types of combat beyond the scope of the other rule books (like I
personaly do), then you play it another way.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 19:01:06 -0500
From: Eric Freitas <efreitos@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: CHView under Linux
Hey! For those of you who might care, CHView works under Linux using Wine
1.0beta. Tre Cool...
- --
Eric Freitas
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 19:04:14 -0500
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: OT big time
I thought the movie was complete and utter trash. I'm surprised Marlon never
asked "Weesa steal the treasure now?"
Bleah.
Sam
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 01:34:26 +0100
From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" <volker@greimann.de>
Subject: Wahoo. Bagged TD 9, 10 on EBAY ;-)
Grin, i got lucky on Ebay Germany this week and just received Traveller´s
Digest 9 and 10, the CORE-issues ;-). And there I was, thinking those
issues wetre not to be found anymore. Silly me.
Although I already have issue 9, this one is in much better shape. So now I
have a spare issue 9, in used quality (Cover is worn). Anybody interested?
Europeans preferred.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 19:18:39 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: OT big time
> I thought the movie was complete and utter trash.
I thought it was excellent. What didn't you like about it?
> I'm surprised Marlon never asked "Weesa steal the treasure now?"
Snails was a thief, not Jar-Jar Binks. Haven't you ever played D&D?
- -J. Jensen
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 20:31:07 -0500
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: OT big time
What didn't I like about it?
The acting was absurd.
The directing was pathetic.
The editing was worse than amateurish.
The script overall was insipid.
What's worse, Marlon Wayans played a worse stereotype than Jar-Jar Stinks,
the elf and dwarf seemed there solely to "prove" it was D&D serving no
purpose in the whole movie, and the effects were merely adequate.
I didn't expect it to be a classic but I was hoping it would be watchable.
Oh, and yes I have played D&D. Snails was a pathetic excuse for anything and
certainly not any thief I have seen played. Marlon Wayans deserves a worse
beating from his brothers for playing such a simpering role than he got from
the Henchman.
So basically, I didn't like any part of it. Even Riff Raff and Dr. Who were
wasted backdrops in this abomination.
Sam
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 01:30:49 -0000
From: "Peter Scarrott" <peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Alternative Campaigns
Have been re-reading some of my favourite Sci Fi series recently, 2 series
in particular have made me think of alternative Campaigns/timelines. Your
comments would be appreciated, I would particularly welcome anyone who has
tried designing a campaign around these ideas posting their thoughts.
1) Dune Series by Frank Herbert,
Probably well known to most, I have considered having the Freman Jihad
sweeping into Known space, (poss. from rimward of Solomani). An interesting
possibility I think but how would you model the prescient view of Muaddibb
(sp?)
2) Faded Sun Trilogy by C.J. Cherryh
Occurs to me that the Mri could be a client race of the Hivers (replace the
Ithklur) and a major war between the Imperium and Hivers (slim chance I know
but what the hell) Main mission being the search for Mri homeworld and how
to deal with all attendant problems.
Note I have deliberately kept the details very brief to avoid spoilers, if
you haven't read either series do so ASAP. Dune set is very hard going at
times but contains excellent ideas.
Peter
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk (Trav & AD&D)
peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
IMTU: tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and
miss.
Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love (By Robert.Heinlan)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 17:38:17 -0800
From: "Trent Smith" <trentfs@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: OT big time
Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> BTW, saw the Dungeons & Dragons movie last night. It's not _Citizen
Kane_,
> but it is worth a look. Go to a matinee show.
Don't you feel bad knowing you're giving yet more money to Courtney Soloman?
IMO I've already given him WAY more of my money than he deserves, and I'll
be damned if I give him any more.
Trent
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 17:44:16 -0800
From: "Trent Smith" <trentfs@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: OT big time
Samuel D. Weiss <samwise1@email.msn.com> wrote:
> What didn't I like about it?
<snip>
> The directing was pathetic.
> The script overall was insipid.
Remember folks, who wrote and directed this movie -- Courtney Soloman! A
search on IMDB shows that he has no previous film credits -- not just as a
director, but of Any Kind! How he conned New Line Cinema into greenlighting
this project with him in the director's chair makes the snow-job he pulled
on Marc Miller look like child's play.
Trent
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 19:45:04 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: OT big time
>What didn't I like about it?
>
>The acting was absurd.
I didn't think so, but that's me.
>The directing was pathetic.
How can you tell?
>The editing was worse than amateurish.
Again, how can you tell?
>What's worse, Marlon Wayans played a worse stereotype than Jar-Jar Stinks,
Not to me. I was expecting him to act that way and was glad that he did.
>the elf and dwarf seemed there solely to "prove" it was D&D serving no
Maybe. But then again, if they had really wanted to do that, they would have
had a halfling and a half-orc.
>purpose in the whole movie, and the effects were merely adequate.
>
>I didn't expect it to be a classic but I was hoping it would be watchable.
Personally, I expected a classic and I got it.
>
>Oh, and yes I have played D&D. Snails was a pathetic excuse for anything
>and
>certainly not any thief I have seen played.
You've been playing with the WRONG group, man.
If this is going to cause a flame war, I'll drop it, but I just have to say
that I thought it was the best movie I've seen in years and can't see why
everyone seems to have hated it so much (other than never having played
D&D).
- -J. Jensen
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3373
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From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)
To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com
Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3373
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3374
Date: | 12/10/00 1:40:53 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Sunday, December 10 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3374
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: OT big time
Re: DUNE RPG
Re: DUNE RPG
Re: OT big time
Re: OT big time
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3372
Re: OT big time
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3372
Re: (OT) Ground Forces
re: San Jose December Meet
Re: Dungeons
Re: D&D Movie
Re: OT Big Time
[www] 10 Dec 2000 - Freelance Traveller Updated
Re: San Jose December Meet
Signatures (Was Re: Ground Forces)
RE: San Jose December Meet
Name resources
Re: DUNE RPG
Re: Dungeons
Re: DUNE RPG
RE: Ground Forces
RE: Ground Forces
Re: (OT) Ground Forces
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 19:45:57 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: OT big time
>this project with him in the director's chair makes the snow-job he pulled
>on Marc Miller look like child's play.
Huh? What'd he do to Marc?
- -J. Jensen
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 17:52:33 -0800
From: "Trent Smith" <trentfs@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: DUNE RPG
Ouch! It's bad enough getting spam from people telling us to buy their
stuff on eBay, but even worse when 1) it comes from a former list-luminary,
and 2) you've already read a half-dozen paragraphs before you realize what
the score is.
Trent
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 19:07:26 -0700
From: "J. Paul Sanders" <timmon@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: DUNE RPG
Actually, I found Kenneth's post more interesting than the spam beard
debates of last week.
Paul
At 05:52 PM 12/9/00 -0800, you wrote:
>Ouch! It's bad enough getting spam from people telling us to buy their
>stuff on eBay, but even worse when 1) it comes from a former list-luminary,
>and 2) you've already read a half-dozen paragraphs before you realize what
>the score is.
>
>Trent
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 21:13:51 -0500
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: OT big time
>>The acting was absurd.
I didn't think so, but that's me..<
Can't say anything about that.
>>The directing was pathetic.
How can you tell?<
Because the scenes were poorly plotted and even more poorly executed.
Further, the vast gaps of vital interaction assumed completed off camera
showed an utter lack of knowledge about how to do a fantasy movie.
>>The editing was worse than amateurish.
Again, how can you tell?<
The worst part is when Snails is fleeing the castle. Watch how the amount of
carpet gook on him decreases and then increases.
>>What's worse, Marlon Wayans played a worse stereotype than Jar-Jar Stinks,
Not to me. I was expecting him to act that way and was glad that he did.<
He played the Coon with a capital KKK. I find nothing amusing or
entertaining about that. Indeed, I was somewhat embarrassed by it as it
progressed.
>>the elf and dwarf seemed there solely to "prove" it was D&D serving no
Maybe. But then again, if they had really wanted to do that, they would have
had a halfling and a half-orc.<
Not maybe. The dwarf did nothing more than be loud and boisterous and
mention he wanted to be paid once. There was nothing truly dwarf about him.
Further, for the amount of screen time he had any sort of character could
have filled in there, human or whatever.
Likewise with the elf. Even the scene with Tom Baker did nothing for the
concept of elves and to try and define the entire movie in that one brief
moment was absurd.
>Personally, I expected a classic and I got it.<
I can no change your opinion and have no interest in doing so. I merely wish
to state my absolute and utter dissent.
>You've been playing with the WRONG group, man.<
I most certainly have not.
>If this is going to cause a flame war, I'll drop it, but I just have to say
that I thought it was the best movie I've seen in years and can't see why
everyone seems to have hated it so much (other than never having played
D&D).<
A flame war is you choice, just to decide to go into the realm of personal
insults instead of accepting that people can have different opinions.
I have been playing the game for over 20 years and have watched more than
enough movies in that time. The only category this qualifies as "Classic" in
is as an MST3K superstar. This movie is indeed perfect for gathering a group
of gamers to sit around and make fun of it. It possessed no elements of a
good movie and virtually no elements of a good fantasy movie. The characters
were all hollow shells of hackneyed stereotypes. The active D&D elements
were vague to the point of virtual nonexistence.
I didn't like it.
Sam
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 18:28:05 -0800
From: "Trent Smith" <trentfs@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: OT big time
James Jensen <cheeb0@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Huh? What'd he do to Marc?
Courtney Soloman was the 'money-man' behind Imperium Games. As such, he
made a lot of promises that he was clearly unable to fulfill. Of course,
it's not ALL his fault, but the buck has to stop somewhere, and the fact
that Marc yanked their license speaks volumes.
Trent
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 21:35:26 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3372
> Really, why create a dungeon? If you have that much power why not take
> over a nation or two?
He/she/it/they was/were not rational.
> How many Fantasy Novels have a dungeon delve compared
> to the ones that don't
None that I know of, but I haven't read every fantasy novel. I'm unaware of a
single mention of gelatinous cubes or rust monsters either. Where is it
written that we cannot deviate from what appears in fantasy novels?
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 20:43:14 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: OT big time
> >>What's worse, Marlon Wayans played a worse stereotype than Jar-Jar
>Stinks,
>
>Not to me. I was expecting him to act that way and was glad that he did.<
>
>He played the Coon with a capital KKK. I find nothing amusing or
>entertaining about that. Indeed, I was somewhat embarrassed by it as it
>progressed.
>
I just have to say something about this. There was nothing racist about it,
except maybe that he acted like a kender. Actually, he acted like he does on
"The Wayans Brothers". If you see it as rascist, that's your opinion, but I
don't.
- -J. Jensen
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 19:48:25 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3372
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
>> Really, why create a dungeon? If you have that much power why not take
>> over a nation or two?
>
>He/she/it/they was/were not rational.
Much like Game Designers? <j/k in a few cases.>
>> How many Fantasy Novels have a dungeon delve compared
>> to the ones that don't
>
>None that I know of, but I haven't read every fantasy novel. I'm unaware of
a
>single mention of gelatinous cubes or rust monsters either. Where is it
>written that we cannot deviate from what appears in fantasy novels?
While they have not called them "gelatinous cubes" or "rust monsters" I
have seen analogs to them in Fantasy Novels before.
If a Author cannot find a reason for one, what makes you think there is
one? I can see a reason for a "Dungeon Crawl" in SF Games. Derilict Ships
or Stations. I can also see a reason for them in Fantasy, a Castle or mine
taken over by monsters, but I cannot see why to have miles deep dungeons
that serve no purpose at all.
Do not take this as a blast against Dungeon Keeper I, DK Gold, or DK II,
as those games rock.
I bid you peace.
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"
"I don't need Romance. I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
USS Excaliber.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 03:53:59 +0100
From: "Kjeld Johansen" <kjeld@games.dk>
Subject: Re: (OT) Ground Forces
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com>
> From: Mikko V. I. Parviainen <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
>> Well, Kiri is not a Finnish name. One could probably get it, but it
>> would be after a long session with bureucracy. B-)
> I didn't know that, thanks.
> Several of the Kiris that I met as a result of the "spam all the Kiris on
> the net" event were in Finland so I thought it was a Finnish name.
> Do you really have to have your government approve your choice of name?
> Wow. I know you have to do that in France.
In Denmark you can either pick a first name of the official list (which most
be within the first half year after the birth):
Male: http://www.km.dk/hyppige_spm/drengenavne.htm
Female: http://www.km.dk/hyppige_spm/pigenavne.htm
Or you can ask for permission to get something different, but then you
better have a good reason, like coming from an other country and want a name
there is common in that region.
Your last name must in most cases be the same as one of your parents (doesn'
t matter which) or you can change it later. If you want to have the same
last name as a relative small group of people, then any one of them can
object to that you get the same last name.
Kjeld.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 19:07:34 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: re: San Jose December Meet
>From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
>There won't be a December meet of the San Jose Traveller Group. I'll be
busy packing for the
>holidays and I'm sure everyone else will be busy getting ready for the
holidays as well.
Have a great vacation, take lots of pictures, and put them on the web!
>We'll meet again in January, probably the third weekend. Suggestions for
the next game?
I can run the current segment of the RSSP campaign. There is room for more
players.
As far as a wargame, I don't object to something that requires a little less
preparation time than Striker. Invasion: Earth is fine with me.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 21:09:12 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Dungeons
> >> Really, why create a dungeon? If you have that much power why not take
> >> over a nation or two?
Why not? It keeps the adventurers occupied, and I'd imagine that level 38
wizards get bored easily. Watching adventurers brave impossible odds just to
claim a powerful magic item that you don't need anyway is candy to the
twisted mind. Like that of a GM.
- -J. Jensen (A GM/DM/ST/etc. himself)
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 21:17:38 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: D&D Movie
> >Oh, and yes I have played D&D. Snails was a pathetic excuse for anything
> >and
> >certainly not any thief I have seen played.
>
> You've been playing with the WRONG group, man.
>
Sorry about this. I hadn't realized that we weren't talking about the same
stereotype.
J. Jensen
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 22:33:00 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re: OT Big Time
>I didn't expect it to be a classic but I was hoping it would be watchable.
Even Dragon Magazine staffers just couldn't take this movie at all seriously.
The "preview" in Dragon #278 (Dwarf on the cover) just screams "This movie is
SO bad that we had to interview one of the actors in order to be printable."
The review at:
http://www.aint-it-cool-news.com/display.cgi?id=7617
pretty much says it all.
I'm headed off to see it this evening just so I can say I paid full price...
GC
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 23:08:26 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
Subject: [www] 10 Dec 2000 - Freelance Traveller Updated
Freelance Traveller, the Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller® Resource has
posted its most recent update to http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller and
http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/Default.htm.
We understand that our November update announcements didn't make it
everywhere we sent them, so we are including those changes in this update
announcement - our apologies if you already saw them.
Our November 12 update featured:
- A new section of adventures can be found in Active Measures. Read about
the Challenge Adventures and consider submitting one!
- Minor updates to the list of e-mail lists in the Traveller On The
Internet page of the Information Center.
- Chapter six of Fred Ramen's ongoing serial, _The_Hostile_Stars_, has
been posted to Raconteur's Rest.
- Update to the SJGames product list and the FAQ to reflect recent
releases.
- Some questions to Freelance Traveller have come in, and been answered;
find them on the Ask Freelance Traveller page in the Information Center.
Our November 26 update featured:
- The second of the Challenge Adventures has been posted to Active
Measures.
- Ken Pick brings us two new articles - one on modified small craft
designs, and one on how the Displacement Ton is defined, and how it
compares to the size of things in the real world. Find them both in The
Shipyard.
- Chapter seven of Fred Ramen's ongoing serial, The Hostile Stars, has
been posted to Raconteur's Rest.
This update, December 10, features:
- Daniel Phelps brings us three new character profiles, Cassius Belli,
Geoff Ranna, and Ham Sinclair, and Michæl Hughes profiles Tab Volet for
our readership, all in Up Close and Personal.
- Chapter eight of Fred Ramen's continuing serial, _The_Hostile_Stars_,
can be found in Raconteur's Rest.
- James Jensen sends us chapters two, three, and four of the _Chronicles_
_of_T._C._Harrison_. They can be found in Raconteur's Rest.
- Updated the FAQ to reflect current and forthcoming products. Find it in
the Information Center.
- James Jensen presents us with a way to quickly generate characters for
Classic Traveller that are as powerful as Extended characters, without
the tedium. Read about it in Doing It My Way.
Your questions, comments, and ideas are always welcome at Freelance
Traveller. Please write to freelancetraveller@yahoo.com with any and all
of them, as we are in the process of reconfiguring the forms, and they may
be temporarily disabled. Freelance Traveller depends on the good will of
Traveller fans both to visit our site and justify our existence, and to
write for us, making our existence possible.
Freelance Traveller is mirrored at http://w3.execnet.com/jeffz.
Freelance Traveller wishes to extend its thanks and appreciation to The
Traveller Downport (http://www.downport.com) and to Executive Network
Information Systems (http://www.execnet.com) for hosting services. Without
organizations willing to cooperate with Freelance Traveller's ever-growing
needs, we would be unable to bring you the articles and other resources
that have made Freelance Traveller one of the premier Traveller sites on
the 'net.
®Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture
Enterprises, 1977-2000. Use of the trademark in
this notice and in the referenced materials is not
intended to infringe or devalue the trademark.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
Freelance Traveller - The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller® Resource
http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller
http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/Default.htm
freelancetraveller@yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 20:16:07 -0800
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
Subject: Re: San Jose December Meet
> Have a great vacation, take lots of pictures, and put them on the web!
I'll do that. Kevin has already warned me about the penguins...
> As far as a wargame, I don't object to something that requires a little less
> preparation time than Striker. Invasion: Earth is fine with me.
Hmm. I was thinking that also. I wonder if we could finish in one day.
Kristian
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 23:54:50 -0500
From: Thom Jones-Low <tjoneslo@together.net>
Subject: Signatures (Was Re: Ground Forces)
>
> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 14:10:00 +0200 (EET)
> From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
> Subject: Re: Ground Forces
> +++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
> <-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
> >-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
> <>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]
>
Now that I've seen your signature a few times, can you please explain
it to me.
- --
Thomas Jones-Low
tjoneslo@together.net
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 20:33:30 -0800
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: RE: San Jose December Meet
Kristian Miller wrote:
> > Have a great vacation, take lots of pictures, and put them on the web!
>
> I'll do that. Kevin has already warned me about the penguins...
>
> > As far as a wargame, I don't object to something that requires
> a little less
> > preparation time than Striker. Invasion: Earth is fine with me.
>
> Hmm. I was thinking that also. I wonder if we could finish in one day.
Another alternative is Azhanti High Lightning. We can certainly play a full
game in a day. We can even have the connection with the climactic battle on
Mongo. "Ming's Final Confrontation," or something. Since the whole point is
just to have fun, we can throw some counters on the board, arbitrarily
decide which ones are the rebels and which ones are the loyalists, and go
from there. Not really, but close to it.
I can't wait to hear what Antarctica was like. I've travelled quite a bit,
but have never had a reason to go there, although I once almost went on a
Arctic ice diving trip. I had just become a certified ice diver and wanted
to see what it was like under really thick ice. When you are young and fit,
strange things appeal to you. This was about the time I became an honorary
Scotsman for ice diving in a wetsuit.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 21:41:51 -0800
From: Gordon Horne <gordon.horne@home.com>
Subject: Name resources
British Columbia doesn't have an official list of approved names. It
would have to be a very long list 8^) I seem to remember that some
names are forbidden, like "Queen," "King," "Prince," etc..., but i
can't find any such list or regulation.
Some information is available at
http://www.hlth.gov.bc.ca/vs/index.html including names given to five
or more babies in 1997, 1998 or 1999. There are also the rules for
surnames - no more than one hyphen allowed. 8^)
TTFN
g
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 00:04:57 -0600
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: DUNE RPG
Trent Smith wrote:
> Ouch! It's bad enough getting spam from people telling us to buy their
> stuff on eBay, but even worse when 1) it comes from a former list-luminary,
> and 2) you've already read a half-dozen paragraphs before you realize what
> the score is.
>
> Trent
Damn, Trent! I stay away from the TML for a couple of years, and you go an
trash my post. What kind of welcome is that?
I thought we were friends!
(just screwing with you...trash my post if you want)
Kenneth.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 00:21:17 -0600
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Dungeons
GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:
> Even Dragon Magazine staffers just couldn't take this movie at all seriously.
> The "preview" in Dragon #278 (Dwarf on the cover) just screams "This movie is
> SO bad that we had to interview one of the actors in order to be printable."
Yep...it's a bad one. I checked it out tonight--just because I'm an old time D&D
fan.
Awful movie. Simply awful.
Hawk the Slayer was better! (Remember that old fantasy pic?)
The Sword and the Sorcerer was better! (Remember that one?)
The Beastmaster was better!
Good God, what a bad movie.
Liked the elf. Thought she was sexy (but her costume would be rejected on Xena).
Liked the dwarf too--should have had more of him (although his axe looked like a
big plastic one that you can pick up at Toys R Us).
Didn't Jeremy Irons win an Academy Award? If so, they should take it back after
seeing what he did in this one.
The chick from American Beauty is certainly no Natalie Portman.
Thought Marlon Wayans played the (now cliched) funny black-guy part seen in a lot
of comedies these days.
I've seen better CGI effects on Star Trek and Babylon 5.
The plot, actually, was OK--it's just bad execution (directing and writing--and
especially acting).
What was it with everyong having perfect make-up and modern-day hair cuts? Did
Courtney Soloman watch Braveheart even once before he went out to direct a D&D
movie?
It's pretty bad when the dude with the lipstick (the bald guy from the awful
recent Highlander movie) is one of the best actors in the pic.
And...
...I was just waiting for the head theif in the thieves' guild to start singing
"Let's do the Timewarp again..." (Where was Tim Curry in that scene, anyway?)
Yes, the D&D flick is a stinker. I don't think I would have finished it on TV
for free.
Kenneth.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 01:07:07 -0800
From: "Trent Smith" <trentfs@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: DUNE RPG
Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com> wrote:
> Trent Smith wrote:
> > Ouch! It's bad enough getting spam from people telling us to buy their
> > stuff on eBay, but even worse when 1) it comes from a former
list-luminary,
> > and 2) you've already read a half-dozen paragraphs before you realize
what
> > the score is.
> >
> > Trent
>
> Damn, Trent! I stay away from the TML for a couple of years, and you go
an
> trash my post. What kind of welcome is that?
>
> I thought we were friends!
>
No real offense meant, and hopefully not too much taken. I guess I did fly
off the handle a bit. Anyhow, welcome back -- would you believe we haven't
had a SINGLE good flame-war about the Traveller task system since you left?
Trent
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 11:17:52 +0200 (EET)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: RE: Ground Forces
On Sun, 10 Dec 2000, Frank G. Pitt wrote:
> Mikko V. I. Parviainen wrote :
> > > On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
> > > In Japanese, Maori, and Finnish, Kiri is a female name.
> > Well, Kiri is not a Finnish name. One could probably get it, but it would
> > be after a long session with bureucracy. B-)
> Does Finland have the same ridiculous rules as France about names ?
I could take that as a flame, but, being a nice person, I don't.
I could ask whether USA still has medieval laws that allow executions,
but, again, I don't.
Yes, Finland has stricter rules about naming people than most other
countries. This is in the process of being modified, but we still might
have some order about things here. B-)
For now, you could change your name one time with just notification, if
the name is a Finnish one. There is still some red tape around acquiring a
foreign name, but that is more and more easier.
Not that I will be very happy to have people like "Christine Virtanen" as
we have our own versions of the name, Kristiina.
We still have what you might call an own language, so all of us might not
want to speak mongrel english, thank you.
- --
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 11:33:30 +0200 (EET)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: RE: Ground Forces
On Sun, 10 Dec 2000, Mikko V. I. Parviainen wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Dec 2000, Frank G. Pitt wrote:
> I could ask whether USA still has medieval laws that allow executions,
> but, again, I don't.
Sorry about this, I got a bit winded. New Zealand is not United States.
B-(
Still, our legal systems is not derived from the common law system, which
prevails in England, USA and as I understand, in former British Colonies.
Our system is based on Germanic concept of laws, with more written law and
precedents having less (or almost no) effect on legislation.
I still might ask that one question some day. B-)
Mental note to self, read email addresses of posts you reply to.
And yes, I know a person who changed her first name to "Susi", which means
"wolf". As this is a Finnish surname, it was not allowed, but she told
them that this was an English name and she got it.
- --
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 11:37:07 +0200 (EET)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: Re: (OT) Ground Forces
On Sun, 10 Dec 2000, Kjeld Johansen wrote:
> From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com>
> > From: Mikko V. I. Parviainen <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
> >> Well, Kiri is not a Finnish name. One could probably get it, but it
> >> would be after a long session with bureucracy. B-)
> > I didn't know that, thanks.
> > Several of the Kiris that I met as a result of the "spam all the Kiris on
> > the net" event were in Finland so I thought it was a Finnish name.
> > Do you really have to have your government approve your choice of name?
> > Wow. I know you have to do that in France.
> In Denmark you can either pick a first name of the official list (which most
> be within the first half year after the birth):
> Male: http://www.km.dk/hyppige_spm/drengenavne.htm
> Female: http://www.km.dk/hyppige_spm/pigenavne.htm
> Or you can ask for permission to get something different, but then you
> better have a good reason, like coming from an other country and want a name
> there is common in that region.
> Your last name must in most cases be the same as one of your parents (doesn'
> t matter which) or you can change it later. If you want to have the same
> last name as a relative small group of people, then any one of them can
> object to that you get the same last name.
This is approximately the case in Finland, as Nordic countries have very
similar laws.
This is not very amazing, considering how much our countries have been
together...
- --
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3374
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Traveller-digest Sunday, December 10 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3375
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Dungeons
Languages and Culture
Re: Ground Forces
Re: OT: DUNE RPG
Dungeon Keeper
Re: Re : Atmosphere question
Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
D&D, dungeons, dungeon-crawls, et al
Re: OT: DUNE RPG
Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans
Re: OT big time
Re: OT big time
RE: Ground Forces
Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
Re: D&D, dungeons, dungeon-crawls, et al
Re: Dungeons
Re: DUNE RPG
Re: OT: DUNE RPG
Re: OT: DUNE RPG
Re: Dungeons
Re: Dungeons
Re: Dungeons
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 01:48:31 -0800
From: "Trent Smith" <trentfs@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Dungeons
Loren Wiseman wrote:
(quoting somebody)
> > How many Fantasy Novels have a dungeon delve compared
> > to the ones that don't
>
> None that I know of, but I haven't read every fantasy novel.
While perhaps not true D&D-style dungeons, instances of characters wandering
around in subterranean crypts and mazes are actually fairly common in
fantasy books: at least a couple of Conan and Fafhrd/Grey Mouser stories,
many John Carter of Mars books, not to mention several instances in Tolkien
(Moria, Shelob's Lair, etc.). Certainly the idea shows up often enough that
you can see where Dave Arneson got the idea. Remember, also, that the whole
thing was originally intended as little more than a fun break from Arneson's
ongoing miniatures campaign. Things like Logic and Internal Consistency
didn't enter the picture until much, much later.
I'm unaware of a
> single mention of gelatinous cubes or rust monsters either. Where is it
> written that we cannot deviate from what appears in fantasy novels?
Those jokey 'novelty' creatures (also including the likes of Blink Dogs,
Beholders, Carrion Crawlers, and (my personal favorite) the Umber Hulk) are
a lot of what gives D&D its unique, fun flavor. If D&D were limited solely
to creatures from RW myth and literature it would be a lot less interesting
(but, and they very well may do this in 3E, they should specify which
creatures are "real" and which ones they made up; if nothing more to avoid
confusing impressionable 10-year olds (i.e. me in 1984)).
Trent
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 23:19:10 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Languages and Culture
On 10 Dec 00, at 11:17, Mikko V. I. Parviainen wrote:
> Not that I will be very happy to have people like "Christine Virtanen" as we
> have our own versions of the name, Kristiina.
> We still have what you might call an own language, so all of us might not want
> to speak mongrel english, thank you.
This is quite facinating. I'd fully expect these attitudes (please understand
I'm not making *any* judgement, just commenting on their existance) to
persist and a very strong factor in Terran colonisation during the IW period.
Many cultural minorities chosing to leave Earth to preserve their culture
and language in the colonies. In fact i've used it as the basis for one of the
most important Terran organisations of the IW period.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 02:36:43 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces
From: Mikko V. I. Parviainen <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
>I could take that as a flame, but, being a nice person, I don't.
>
>I could ask whether USA still has medieval laws that allow executions,
>but, again, I don't.
You know this is funny, Russia your nice neighbor also have laws that
allow executions, but no one else ever talkw about that, do they?
>We still have what you might call an own language, so all of us might not
>want to speak mongrel english, thank you.
Just in the same way we do not want to speak Finnish.
Personally, I believe in live & let live. All of our nations have weird
& strange laws & customs, such as Finland with their laws on names & custom
of eating lute fish, the US has laws on executions & customs of not sleeping
with your sister, France has a whole different idea of law than Americans &
customs on being rude to Americans & surrendering the the Germans, Germany
has laws on somethings I do not agree with & customs about invading France &
Poland everyso often, & England has laws on inbreeding their royality &
customs about food. Do I agree with executions? Maybe, but should the
person be guilty of it, yes. Do I agree with eating lutefish? No, I would
rather be executed. Do I agree with invading France? Hell yes, I do, I
think every nation on Earth, including Finland should invade France. Am I
kidding about some parts in the statement, yes I am, but I still like the
idea of everynation on Earth forming an Alliance to invade France.
I bid you peace.
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"
"I don't need Romance. I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
USS Excaliber.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 11:59:57 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: OT: DUNE RPG
Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:
> pages devoted to the DUNE universe. Over half the book is dedicated to
> explaining the history, culture, science, and other imaginitive aspects
> associated with DUNE.
Sounds like the proper way to write a rulebook for a non-generic system.
A lot of background is neccessary. Good thing that LUG understand this.
Sad thing that I haven't even got time to play Traveller... :-(
Ah well. Traveller will be SF-RPG number one on my list of priorities.
Dune is second or third (depending on where I place Star Wars). It will
have to wait.
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 12:02:11 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Dungeon Keeper
Legate Legion wrote:
> Do not take this as a blast against Dungeon Keeper I, DK Gold, or DK II,
> as those games rock.
Those games are probably intended as a twisted parody on fantasy RPGs
anyway... ;-)
(and yes, they rock)
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 01:02:56 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re : Atmosphere question
In mail you write:
> Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote :-
>> Is there any way in which an atmosphere could naturally produce a
>> cyanogen taint? and what concentrations would it require before it
>> became a problem?
>
> <quick Google search>
> ..
> </quick Google search>
>
> Cyanogen : ethanedinitrile (CN)2
>
> Highly toxic and flammable (6.6-32% mixtures with air) ;
> lethal concentration after 1 hour is 350ppm for the rat.
> 10 hour exposure limit is 10ppm (statutory/OSHA)
>
> In a putative biosphere, it must be a product of biological
> or geological action, requiring replenishment.
>
> This stuff basically behaves like cyanide gas.
>
> Basically, I'd choose something else for an exotic taint for a G:T
> human minor race. The required alterations to haemoglobin and
> cytochromes to render humans immune to cyanide would need to be
> profound ; the genes for both these molecules have been tightly
> preserved by evolution.
*Non*-humans are a different story. Right here on earth there are
critters (the encyclopedia never said *what* critters, though) that use
hemerythin(sp), which while less efficient than hemoglobin, is
unaffected by cyanide.
Note to any GMs using it. While hemoglobin is bright red (oxygenated),
to purplish red (de-oxygenated), hemerythin is pale *pink*.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 01:18:15 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
In mail you write:
> From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
>> I thought that canon established that the maximum jump range with current
>> therory was jump-6. Jump-7 would mean a new theory missed by the ancients,
>> and would have the effect of shrinking the empire.
>
> From: "tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@bigfoot.com>
>> I think that the ship postulated does not make one J-7, but rather a J-4
> and
>> then (via onboard fuel) a J-3.
>
> You are correct. That was the idea.
>
>> - ---
>> When the ship makes its first jump, it uses about half of the fuel. If it
>> could reduce its volume like a harmonica, then it would save fuel (and
> total
>> volume) for the second jump. Is there rules for this anywhere?
>> - ---
>
>> Hehehehe. Yes, there are in CT. They are called 'Jump Tanks' and work like
>> stages on a 'modern' rocket - IE you ditch the fuel tanks after they are
>> used up. An expensive way to go, but it will work.
> [...]
>> IMHO using this will not do to much violence to the OTU - as the cases
> where
>> they will actually come in handy are rare - AND they are a one shot deal.
>> One jump using the Jtanks and one with out. If you could come up with a
> 200
>> ton jump tank for a Scout Courier - you could actually get 5 jump 1's and
>> one Jump 2 out of it. Not actually very useful, but a cool concept! :)
>
> From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
>> I think he'd be better off keeping all tankage internal and not get into
> the whole drop
>> tank thing because of all the side-effect issues, just my opinion.
>
> Hmm, I have been thinking about this.
> If you can drop or reduce the volume of the fuel-tank then you can just add
> more fuel capacity and be capable of traveling further without refueling. A
> 100-Ton jump-6 ship could add a 167-Ton fuel-tank and make an extra jump-6,
> and a 444-Ton fuel-tank to make one more. The 3rd tank should be 1185-Ton,
> making it an 1896-Ton ship capable of traveling across a 24 parsec rift.
> This would change the OTU, where I thing a 10 parsec rift is impassable
> unless you uses an STL-ship.
No, because the *drive* on a ship has a max volume limit. If the added
tanks push you over, it, you aren't going *anywhere*. Check out how big
a J-drive is required for a 1986 ton ship. I bet you it's more than 100
tons all by itself!
Matter of fact, that why the *original* write-up for jump tanks had you
using the fuel from them and *then* jumping *after* blowing the tanks
free of the ship.
This is still somewhat practical if you are running LH2 from the
*internal* tanks to the drive, and pumping fuel from the drop tanks
into the internal tanks as fast as the drive uses the fuel.
As for that 10 parsec rift, it's easily crossable. You just establish
fuel dumps every few parsecs. Takes time, and a lot of ships, but it
*is* doable.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 12:46:18 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: D&D, dungeons, dungeon-crawls, et al
The 'problem' with the logic of a D&D universe is that it is like
other fantasy literature on the surface only.
Most of the original (pre-D&D) fantasy stories (various
folktales, "Lord of the Rings", etc) that *I've* read feature
*sneaking passed* the lessor evil minions to defeat the evil
leader. Sometimes that defeat is accomplished indirectly by
stealing from him a vital item. (I suspect I'm going to be
flooded with counter-examples, but ...)
A kill-the-dragon story usually has a single individual going off
to defeat a Dragon ... usually to rescue the princess. Looting
the dragon's horde is not a big feature. In fact the Dragon is
itself a metaphor for greed (taste the irony).
But with D&D you have an organised group, each member with very
specific skills, moving systematically room by room, killing
anything that moves and taking anything of value. And D&D-style
dungeons are geared up to be taken that way.
Consider when D&D started. It seems to me that the whole thing
was a metaphor for the Vietnam War, created at a time when the
issues of that war were still too fresh to be easily dealt with
directly. The modus operandi of the stereotypical D&D player
group is pure US recon team: The thief is the point man, the
magic user is heavy weapons, the cleric is the medic, the dungeon
is enemy territory (but devoid of any moral ambiguity). And
most-unlike classic fantasy the group doesn't take the shortest
route to their final objective (sometimes there is no specific
final objective) they clear out *everything*. However, post
films like Platoon and Full Metal Jacket this kind of catharsis
is no longer required and the 'flaws' in the logic of D&D become
apparent.
So of course it doesn't make sense from a classic fantasy
perspective: D&D-style dungeons aren't classic fantasy, they are
just morally unambiguous killing fields *dressed up* as fantasy.
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 14:19 +0000 (GMT)
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
Subject: Re: OT: DUNE RPG
In-Reply-To: <3A33622D.16D37A0D@student.liu.se>
Greetings dear hearts.
Sounds quite fun. As Dune has featured in TRAVELLER games I've run before
(someone did a best quality fast dive around the sun when pissed with what
was going on in the game - she was trying to destroy the ship at the time
- - so I flipped them into a parallel universe which was Dune) I have
already gathered that sort of material and written it up (it's in the 'not
for publication' pile for obvious reasons). Good to hear someone did it
properly. Hope WotC manage as good a conversion.
As for the STAR WARS WotC offering, I have the galley proof sitting on my
desk. I like the d20 mechanic itself, but don't like all the stuff built
on top... I tend to run games in which the characters are normal people,
not HEROES writ in capital letters. Both the d20 STAR WARS and d20 D&D
(to a lesser extent) make player-characters too overpowered even at low
levels. Whole thing is in danger of playing like a comic book if not
carefully handled.
Hugs and kisses,
Mexal.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 09:20:54 -0500
From: Eric Freitas <efreitos@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: GT Beowolf Deckplans
At 15:13 12/3/00 -0800, you wrote:
>>The Death Star is worse than B4 & B5. Last time I did the calcs (based
>>on measuring things off the screen of a 20" TV) I came out with
>>something like 20 km diameter, IIRC.
>>
>>So, assuming the decks average 10 meters apart, that's 2000 decks. With
>>the biggest ones being 300 sq. km!
There is truly nothing like an Utu Class Battle Planetoid. Will somebody be
doing the plans for those to?
Eric
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 07:10:25
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: OT big time
At 05:38 PM 12/9/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>> BTW, saw the Dungeons & Dragons movie last night. It's not _Citizen
>>Kane_, but it is worth a look. Go to a matinee show.
>
>Don't you feel bad knowing you're giving yet more money to Courtney Soloman?
>IMO I've already given him WAY more of my money than he deserves, and I'll
>be damned if I give him any more.
Kirsten's OSO gets free passes from his job. The only money we spent was
on popcorn.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 07:12:24
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: OT big time
At 07:45 PM 12/9/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>If this is going to cause a flame war, I'll drop it, but I just have to say
>that I thought it was the best movie I've seen in years and can't see why
>everyone seems to have hated it so much (other than never having played
>D&D).
I've been playing D&D since 1976. And I almost always play thieves. It
was a pretty awful movie, but fun. Go rent _Ladyhawk_ for a good fantasy
flick.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 07:22:43
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Ground Forces
At 11:17 AM 12/10/2000 +0200, you wrote:
>I could ask whether USA still has medieval laws that allow executions,
>but, again, I don't.
We do. And I'd love to see a medieval law that allows for up to two
decades of appeals and retrials.
>Yes, Finland has stricter rules about naming people than most other
>countries. This is in the process of being modified, but we still might
>have some order about things here. B-)
I have to ask, what business does the government have with what you name
your child? That seems to me to be very, very intrusive. What are they
going to do if you refuse to use the approved list? Take the kid? Refuse
to allow it to be schooled? Throw you out of the country? How about if
you give the child an "official" name, bur never use it and raise him as,
say, Eneri?
>For now, you could change your name one time with just notification, if
>the name is a Finnish one. There is still some red tape around acquiring a
>foreign name, but that is more and more easier.
I can, at will, change my name. As long as I'm not doing it for fraudulent
purposes, I could change it every 90 days. I could also call myself
Penguin Boy, and even get a driver's license in that name.
>We still have what you might call an own language, so all of us might not
>want to speak mongrel english, thank you.
And what language is this post in? I know many people in the US who speak
Cantonese, Spanish, or Russian at home, and English in the community.
Hell, English is nothing but several languages that had a bad collision,
and I'm sure the Finnish is the same way.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"Avoid small projects, they leave no mark on people's memories"
- - Daniel Burnham, San Francisco City Planner, 1907.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 07:32:25
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Jodies and other assorted cadences
At 10:42 AM 12/6/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>Doug, just for reference, can you point me to the lyrics of Green fields of
>Flanders?
http://www.fortunecity.com/tinpan/parton/2/noman.html
And now for something compkletely different.. A song about a dead cat.
Bob Kanefsky, aka The Songworm, is the terror of Bay Area filkers. The
worst thing we can imagine is looking up while performing a new song and
seeing him writing in his notebook. Because that means that before the
night is out, you'll hear a parody of your song that is probably ten times
better than what you wrote.
This is his masterwork.
http://www.songworm.com/lyrics/songworm-parody/NobodysMoggyLands.html
- --
Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"Penguin Boy, Righter of wrongs, hero to millions, &
friend to Flash Gordon." - Legate Legion on the TML
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 11:44:48 -0500
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: D&D, dungeons, dungeon-crawls, et al
>It seems to me that the whole thing was a metaphor for the Vietnam War,
created at a time when the issues of that war were still too fresh to be
easily dealt with directly. <
Ummm...No.
D&D is converted miniatures wargaming. It is the fun and joy of slaughtering
tens of thousands of hunks of lead reduced to a personal level with that
flair of fantasy thrown in. It has nothing to do with morality plays,
although Gygax recently made note that his intense dislike of Evil is why
the game is set up with a rather distinct bias toward Good.
This is also why direct comparisons with Tolkien are rather off the mark.
D&D has epic quests but it is more about racking up notches on your sword
and hoarding enough treasure to make a dragon drop dead from envy than
saving the world. Find Gygax's own story about how he would have
Mordenkainen and his crew roam about hunting for Bandits because they knew
they were carrying that Type A treasure.
>D&D-style dungeons aren't classic fantasy, they are just morally
unambiguous killing fields *dressed up* as fantasy.<
This is a lot closer, just forget about any sort of Viet Nam allegory. That
puts a lot more meaning to it than it deserves.
Sam
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 11:50:04 -0500
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Dungeons
>Hawk the Slayer was better! (Remember that old fantasy pic?)
The Sword and the Sorcerer was better! (Remember that one?)
The Beastmaster was better!<
That's exactly what my friend and I were saying after.
Now the real question, was it better or worse than Yor, Hunter From the
Future?
I'm thinking Yor pulls out ahead here.
Sam
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 11:37:05 -0600
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: DUNE RPG
Trent Smith wrote:
> No real offense meant, and hopefully not too much taken. I guess I did fly
> off the handle a bit.
Naww. No offense meant.
> Anyhow, welcome back -- would you believe we haven't
> had a SINGLE good flame-war about the Traveller task system since you left?
Really? In two years?
Hm. I guess we'll have to change that.
Have I told you that I've come up with an awesome new task system that fits
extremely well with any version of Traveller, uses only six sided die, measures
the weight of stats and skills perfectly, and has that Classic
Traveller/MegaTraveller/T4 feel that we've all known to come and love...
I call it KB3, and it's in playtest now...
It's the reason I'm back on the list...
(big smile)
Kenneth.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 11:45:57 -0600
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: OT: DUNE RPG
Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm wrote:
> Sounds like the proper way to write a rulebook for a non-generic system.
> A lot of background is neccessary. Good thing that LUG understand this.
It is an awesome rule book.
> Sad thing that I haven't even got time to play Traveller... :-(
I hear ya. My games have been sparsed out due to time. My Traveller
campaigned ended on a cliffhanger a couple of years ago (the PC's ship was
destroyed, and the crew was left floating out in space in their emergency
suits).
We took some time off due to the demands of my company, then I started a Star
Wars game--and it was awesome--a couple years in the campaign.
Took some more time off, and everybody been screaming about finishing the
Traveller--and I a eureaka experience on how to come up with a Traveller task
system that is both modern and fits the classic feel of CT/MT/T4--so I'm
killing three birds with one stone, finishing my Traveller campaign,
pleaseing my players, and play testing the KB3 task system (which is actually
becoming a rules system--much more than just a tast system).
> Ah well. Traveller will be SF-RPG number one on my list of priorities.
> Dune is second or third (depending on where I place Star Wars). It will
> have to wait.
I hear you there too. Traveller is awesome. Dune is awesome. Star Wars is
awesome too.
It depends what mood you're in.
Good to talk to you again, Jens.
Kenneth.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 11:56:03 -0600
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: OT: DUNE RPG
Megan Robertson wrote:
> As for the STAR WARS WotC offering, I have the galley proof sitting on my
> desk. I like the d20 mechanic itself, but don't like all the stuff built
> on top... I tend to run games in which the characters are normal people,
> not HEROES writ in capital letters. Both the d20 STAR WARS and d20 D&D
> (to a lesser extent) make player-characters too overpowered even at low
> levels. Whole thing is in danger of playing like a comic book if not
> carefully handled.
I see what you mean. I actually think d20 is a pretty good system. It fits
D&D well, and I think it is perfect as a face lift and next edition of that
game.
It fits Star Wars OK...but the problem is that it is too complicated. There
are too many "plusess for this" and "minuses for that" and "under this
specific circumstance, you do this" type of modifiers.
I say d20 fits Star Wars OK because the d20 is a Heroic type system. In D&D
and Star Wars, you need Heroes. It's what the game's all about (although,
like you, I tend to run my games with more "normal" type people).
The reason I like West End Games' D6 system better is that it is so
simple--allowing you to focus on role playing, not the rules--yet it was just
as detailed as the d20 system.
So, in my book, why complicate things when you are achieving the same result
from a simpler way of doing it?
But, I can accept d20 in Star Wars (it's not like, say, what they did with TNE
after CT and MT), but I just prefer the WEG version better--because it fit the
genre so well. Fast play. Detailed results. Swashbuckling heroes dodging
blaster fire.
d20 doesn't capture that as well for me.
Anyway...
Kenneth.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 11:57:44 -0600
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Dungeons
"Samuel D. Weiss" wrote:
> That's exactly what my friend and I were saying after.
> Now the real question, was it better or worse than Yor, Hunter From the
> Future?
> I'm thinking Yor pulls out ahead here.
Damn...I don't know....Yor was pretty bad.
Maybe you're right. Maybe Yor wins...
Kenneth.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 12:01:03 -0600
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Dungeons
Trent Smith wrote:
> Loren Wiseman wrote:
> (quoting somebody)
> > > How many Fantasy Novels have a dungeon delve compared
> > > to the ones that don't
In the movie, the group of heroes were right in front of the cave entrance where
they were to find the rod of red dragon control, and the main guy got real
serious, held out his arm, and said,
"OK, we're at the entrance to the dungeon now!"
Oh my God! I looked over at my friend, he rolled his eyes, and we both shook
our heads.
What a bad flick.
Kenneth.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 13:10:00 -0500
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Dungeons
>
In the movie, the group of heroes were right in front of the cave entrance
where
they were to find the rod of red dragon control, and the main guy got real
serious, held out his arm, and said,
"OK, we're at the entrance to the dungeon now!"
Oh my God! I looked over at my friend, he rolled his eyes, and we both
shook
our heads.
What a bad flick.<
And it got worse because it became a solo crawl at that point. This was
exceeded only by the whole "disappear in the map and do an hour of vital
interaction off camera".
Worse than Krull.
Sam
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3375
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3376
Date: | 12/11/00 6:30:04 AM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Monday, December 11 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3376
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Haemerythin (was : Re : Re : atmosphere question)
Dune ideas
Re: Dungeons
Re: Dune ideas
Dungeons & Dragons the Movie
Re: Dune ideas
Re: Dune ideas
Re: Dune ideas
Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
Re: OT big time
Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
RE: Technology Marches On: Big Guns
Re: Ground Forces
Re: OT big time
C.H.A.D.
Re: Ground Forces
Re : Haemerythrin
Mertactor
Re: Mertactor
Spacefaring Powers (was: "The Solomani Rim...")
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, Dec 11 2000 6:41:29 GMT+1100
From: robocon@ozemail.com.au
Subject: Haemerythin (was : Re : Re : atmosphere question)
Leonard Erickson wrote :-
> *Non*-humans are a different story. Right here on earth there are
> critters (the encyclopedia never said *what* critters, though) that use
> hemerythin(sp), which while less efficient than hemoglobin, is
> unaffected by cyanide.
Marine snails and some worms.
It's just with Andrew writing up a human minor race for an upcoming
G:T Humaniti book, I naturally thought of humans.
Why do animals use haemoglobin packed in blood cells?
- - Animals (mammals, reptiles, birds) have a relatively high oxygen
consumption/CO2 production per unit mass.
- - Haemoglobin is packaged to prevent damage to the kidneys via direct
effects as well as an osmotic load.
- - The affinity of haemoglobin for oxygen and carbon dioxide can be
readily modulated across a wide range of temperatures and pH to optimise
gas exchange.
Haemerythrin lacks this flexibility. You would need a lot more of it
to do haemoglobin's job. This has knock-on consequences for iron kinetics, acid-base buffering (haemoglobin has a lot of useful histidine residues), and cell kinetics (synthesis and turnover).
Another problem (related to cell kinetics) is that being resistant to cyanide, auto-reduction
of Fe(2+) -> Fe(3+) would require much greater turnover of haemerythrin.
Red blood cells have a lifespan of 120 days. In part this is due to
maintaining the oxygen carrying capacity of haemoglobin.
Cyanide is produced in very small amounts by the process that limits the
conversion of haemoglobin [contains Fe(2+) in reactive centre] to
methaemoglobin [Fe(3+), can't bind oxygen].
The intrinsic system that eliminates cyanide is
exploited by certain antidotes to cyanide poisoning (thiosulphate).
Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer
This message was sent through MyMail http://www.mymail.com.au
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 11:47:04 -0800
From: sneadj@mindspring.com
Subject: Dune ideas
In thinking about the idea of using the Dune setting, it occured to
me that there is one primary difference between Dune and Traveller
that could be very interesting to incorporate in Traveller. Dune is a
technologically static universe. My impression is that
technological advancement hasn't happened for many hundred
years (perhaps longer).
Although the pace of advancement in Traveller is glacial compared
to our world, it is still advancing. However, it seems equally
possible that there are practical limits to technology. Vinge's _A
Deepness in the Sky_ presents a similarly limited universe. I'd find
such a setting quite interesting and also useful (PCs attempting
various wacky inventions could simply be told that the proposed
invention has been tied and that it doesn't work :)
Does anyone see any problems with such a variant, and has
anyone tried it before?
Of course, in _Dune_ technological invention had been in part
replaced by advances in mental training. Add that in, and you start
getting a universe looking a lot like David Zindell's _Neverness_
(which would be seriously cool, but even further from Traveller.
Anyone ever tried a Neverness-like game?
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 14:23:49 -0600
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Dungeons
"Samuel D. Weiss" wrote:
> And it got worse because it became a solo crawl at that point. This was
> exceeded only by the whole "disappear in the map and do an hour of vital
> interaction off camera".
>
> Worse than Krull.
And that cheap-ass skeleton-lich-thing! The Crypt-Keeper on Tales of the
Crypt was a more convincing prop!
Worse than The Warrior and the Sorceress.
(Remember the one where the orc pulls the guys arm off and beats him over the
head with it...)
Kenneth.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 14:51:16 -0600
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Dune ideas
sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> In thinking about the idea of using the Dune setting, it occured to
> me that there is one primary difference between Dune and Traveller
> that could be very interesting to incorporate in Traveller. Dune is a
> technologically static universe. My impression is that
> technological advancement hasn't happened for many hundred
> years (perhaps longer).
The LUG guys go into this in the DUNE core rule book. There is A LOT on
this subject--in different sections of the book--but basically what they
say is...the people in the DUNE universe have the technology to actually
become a higher tech society, but cultural restrictions have prevented
them.
In DUNE's history, humanity was very high tech. They reached the stars,
folding space, long before spice was discovered and the great Navigators
were mutated. Development of artificial intelligence, at that time, was
astounding, and they constructed mega-computers for tasks like guiding a
ship through foldspace.
But, something happened. I won't go into it all here--it's too long a
discussion. But, basically, it was a Terminator-like thing. Humanity
feared for the machines taking over. There was nefarious manipulation of
AI and sentient weapons (armies of Data-like beings), allowing upstart
regimes to challenge the very fabric of the Imperium--the power of the
Great Noble Houses.
That's when the Butlerian Jihad took place. It's also called The Great
Revolt. Uprisings erupted on many worlds and spread throughout the old
Imperium. Worlds were overthrown, rulers expelled, and a wholesale
destruction of technology was initiated.
Entire noble bloodlines--many of which had existed for thousands of
years--simply ended. World-encompassing riots swepts across an endless
string of planets, from the edge of the Imperium and throughout the
Imperial core.
Billions died. And a new dark age spread across the empire, not unlike
Traveller's Long Night.
But, like the birth of the Third Imperium in Traveller, DUNE's Imperium
rebuilt itself as well. This rebuilt-empire, though, came with a new set
of rules: "No machine may be created to replace the human brain."
So, today (in the present DUNE Imperium), the technology is there.
They've had it for generations, centuries. But their culture restricts
how technology is used.
Computers are used, for sure--but true AI is banned. It's the Imperium's
number one law (it's prime directive). The uses of technology are
sculpted to involve the human factor.
Like the hunter-seeker that tries to assassinate Paul Atreides in the
first DUNE novel. It is man-controlled. An operator must be near by to
guide the assassination device.
They have the technology to build a device that is totally self-guided,
but they don't, because of their culture.
And, there are some planets in the DUNE universe, like Ix, where the old
ways of using technology are still proscribed too. Outlaw devices are
manufactured there, and some of the Great Houses even get their hands on
such devices, through the black market, to use in their Drow-like
backstabbing and politics. But, they use such devices at their own
peril...because if it was ever discovered, there could be sanctions by the
Emperor...they could loose status within their CHOAM membership, hurting
their rule on distant planets...or worse, they could find themselves
planet-bound, without transportation off-world, because of a deterioration
with their relations with the Spacing Guild (and think of what this would
do to the fief's economy--the House would be decimated by the blow to
interstellar trade).
Yes, the DUNE universe is a facinating place to game in. It's so
complex--but that's what makes it so interesting (and probably why the
book is the best selling sci-fi novel in history).
Kenneth.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 17:58:53 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Dungeons & Dragons the Movie
I thought that the new D&D movie was great. I don't go to see a movie for
its director. I don't go to see a movie for its editing. I go to see a movie
because I think that it'll be entertaining. I don't care if there were some
mistakes, as long as the rest of the movie can back it up (and Lost in Space
couldn't. ugh.). In the end, its not the actors, directors, editing, etc.
that make a movie. It's the story and characters. And in D&D, they were
excellent.
I can't see why everyone is so harsh on this movie. I can come up with some
reasons, but they're all so flimsy it's mind-boggling. If you didn't like
it, that's you. But remember: one comment can keep someone from something
great.
I have the perfect example. There is an online game, Xenimus. It is
excellent. However, I do not play it, and others do not play it, and others
do not play it, because there is no language filter and many of the other
players have no consideration for those of us who dislike foul language. So
be careful.
To respond once again to Samuel D. Weiss's comment that Snails was racially
offensive:
Snails was not a racial character. I could just as easily have accepted an
actor of any race. Snails is the stereotypical moron thief. And Marlon
Wayans is good at acting stupid. This does not make him stupid. It makes him
a talented actor. It takes talent to act as stupid as he does.
If you disagree with any/all of the above opinions, then that's your
perogative and right as a human being.
- -J. Jensen
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 18:02:04 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Dune ideas
> > In thinking about the idea of using the Dune setting, it occured to
> > me that there is one primary difference between Dune and Traveller
> > that could be very interesting to incorporate in Traveller. Dune is a
> > technologically static universe. My impression is that
> > technological advancement hasn't happened for many hundred
> > years (perhaps longer).
>
> The LUG guys go into this in the DUNE core rule book. There is A LOT on
> this subject--in different sections of the book--but basically what they
> say is...the people in the DUNE universe have the technology to actually
> become a higher tech society, but cultural restrictions have prevented
> them.
>
> In DUNE's history, humanity was very high tech. They reached the stars,
> folding space, long before spice was discovered and the great Navigators
> were mutated. Development of artificial intelligence, at that time, was
> astounding, and they constructed mega-computers for tasks like guiding a
> ship through foldspace.
>
I agree. It's my belief that (in GURPS terms) the Dune universe is TL16, but
only TL9-11 in practice.
- -J. Jensen
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 19:06:18 -0600
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Dune ideas
James Jensen wrote:
> I agree. It's my belief that (in GURPS terms) the Dune universe is TL16, but
> only TL9-11 in practice.
Interesting take on things. I hadn't thought about it in this manner before,
and I'd have to put some thought into the actual TL designations--but, on the
surface, you're probably right.
TL 16 is a good tech level to describe the type of AI the DUNE Imperium used to
have (and still do, on some outlaw planets).
And, you're probably right about their practicing TL 9-11. It might go a bit
higher than that. It's hard to guage because of the breadth of their
technology. You'll see a lot of lower tech slug throwers used in the DUNE
universe, and at the same time, Baron Harkonnen is floating around on a
high-tech grav belt (TL 12-15).
Nice comment, Jens.
Thought provoking.
Kenneth.
(even if you did like that crappy-ass D&D flick!)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 19:27:05 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Dune ideas
>Nice comment, Jens.
That's not my name. No offense taken, though.
>Thought provoking.
Thank you.
- -J. Jensen
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 17:52:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Bernie McGeehan <einreb62@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
> >> Hehehehe. Yes, there are in CT. They are called
> 'Jump Tanks' and work like
> >> stages on a 'modern' rocket - IE you ditch the
> fuel tanks after they are
> >> used up. An expensive way to go, but it will
> work.
I dont understand why Drop Tanks are so expensive.
I've thought of using collapsable tanks. That shouldnt
be all that expensive, and they'd fold up after
they're drained, back into the ship. Anyone else think
of this?
=====
"I don't know much about what I like, but I do know Art." me @ the Rijksmuseum, Amsterdam (Terra/Sol 3)http://prattfall.tripod.com/index.html
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 19:30:38 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: OT big time
From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
>>If this is going to cause a flame war, I'll drop it, but I just have to
say
>>that I thought it was the best movie I've seen in years and can't see why
>>everyone seems to have hated it so much (other than never having played
>>D&D).
>
>I've been playing D&D since 1976. And I almost always play thieves. It
>was a pretty awful movie, but fun. Go rent _Ladyhawk_ for a good fantasy
>flick.
Oh yeah, the best fantasy flick out there, too bad it takes place in
France or it would be the perfect fantasy flick.
I love the double crossbow, the swords, the partial armor. It is one of
the best Rutger<sp> Hauer movie I have ever seen.
I bid you peace.
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"
"I don't need Romance. I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
USS Excaliber.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 20:14:51 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
In mail you write:
>
>> >> Hehehehe. Yes, there are in CT. They are called
>> 'Jump Tanks' and work like
>> >> stages on a 'modern' rocket - IE you ditch the
>> fuel tanks after they are
>> >> used up. An expensive way to go, but it will
>> work.
>
> I dont understand why Drop Tanks are so expensive.
> I've thought of using collapsable tanks. That shouldnt
> be all that expensive, and they'd fold up after
> they're drained, back into the ship. Anyone else think
> of this?
The problemn is that you have to be able to get the fuel out of the
tanks *very* fast *and* at the same time be able to blow the tanks free
and get them far enough away iin the short period between feeding the
last of the fuel to the drive and jumping.
That's the whole *point* of drop tanks. Being able to use the fuel and
get rid of the tanks *before* jumping, so you don't have to drag the
tanks into jump.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 20:51:20 -0800
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: RE: Technology Marches On: Big Guns
Michael Moxie wrote:
> TOT artillery sheafs should probably get a bonus (like the CBM hit
> bonus) for all those rounds going off at once (maybe MRLs as well,
> but they're usually less accurate so there would more dispersion).
I would handle a TOT mission much like a MRL mission, in that only half of
the usual number of rounds are shot down by PD weapons. I would guess that
at higher TLs, TOT missions are probably just as accurate as regular
missions, also, once you have that incredible accuracy from the high-TL GPS
systems and whatnot.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 16:34:48 +1100 (EST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Craig=20Barnett?= <ca_barnett@yahoo.com.au>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces
> Just in the same way we do not want to speak Finnish.
> Personally, I believe in live & let live. All of our nations
have weird
> & strange laws & customs, such as Finland with their laws on names &
custom
> of eating lute fish, the US has laws on executions & customs of not
sleeping
> with your sister, France has a whole different idea of law than
Americans &
> customs on being rude to Americans & surrendering the the Germans,
Germany
> has laws on somethings I do not agree with & customs about invading
France &
> Poland everyso often, & England has laws on inbreeding their royality
&
> customs about food. Do I agree with executions? Maybe, but should
the
> person be guilty of it, yes. Do I agree with eating lutefish? No, I
would
> rather be executed. Do I agree with invading France? Hell yes, I
do, I
> think every nation on Earth, including Finland should invade France.
Am I
> kidding about some parts in the statement, yes I am, but I still like
the
> idea of everynation on Earth forming an Alliance to invade France.
Thank god I put my drink down when I started reading this, or it would
have been a guaranteed keyboard kill! By the end of the above, I was
ROFLMAO, getting very surprised looks from the others in the office.
The humor was almost...English! <gdr>
Regards,
Craig.
=====
<ca_barnett@yahoo.com.au> <craig_barnett@iname.com>
Traveller Home Page: http://au.geocities.com/ca_barnett/traveller
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 16:55:05 +1100 (EST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Craig=20Barnett?= <ca_barnett@yahoo.com.au>
Subject: Re: OT big time
> Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>
> >If this is going to cause a flame war, I'll drop it, but I just have
to say
> >that I thought it was the best movie I've seen in years and can't
see why
> >everyone seems to have hated it so much (other than never having
played
> >D&D).
>
> I've been playing D&D since 1976. And I almost always play thieves.
It
> was a pretty awful movie, but fun. Go rent _Ladyhawk_ for a good
fantasy
> flick.
I have to agree with you there, Doug. I've watched a few "fantasy"
films over the last 20 years, and Ladyhawk would be one of the best
I've seen.
The characters are three dimensional, the story clever, and the
directing and acting is spot on (and a young Michelle Pfeifer doesn't
hurt, either :)
If you haven't seen Ladyhawk, take Doug's advice.
Regards,
Craig.
=====
<ca_barnett@yahoo.com.au> <craig_barnett@iname.com>
Traveller Home Page: http://au.geocities.com/ca_barnett/traveller
_____________________________________________________________________________
http://clubs.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Clubs
- - Join a club or build your own!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 01:06:22 -0600
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: C.H.A.D.
Sorry for the rash of off-topic posts by me and others, but I couldn't
resist on this one...
I just heard on CNN that chad (those little doo-hickeys that fall out of
a card of piece of paper when you punch a hole in it--like a voter
punching a hole in a ballot) is correctly represented in print as
C.H.A.D.
It's an acronym! I didn't know that!
It stands for...
Count by Hand for the Advantage of the Democrats!
(couldn't resist)
Kenneth.
--Hey, did you hear? Gore's callin' for a recount of Puerto Rico
too...
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 01:13:03 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces
From: Craig Barnett <ca_barnett@yahoo.com.au>
>> Just in the same way we do not want to speak Finnish.
>> Personally, I believe in live & let live. All of our nations
>have weird
>> & strange laws & customs, such as Finland with their laws on names &
>custom
>> of eating lute fish, the US has laws on executions & customs of not
>sleeping
>> with your sister, France has a whole different idea of law than
>Americans &
>> customs on being rude to Americans & surrendering the the Germans,
>Germany
>> has laws on somethings I do not agree with & customs about invading
>France &
>> Poland everyso often, & England has laws on inbreeding their royality
>&
>> customs about food. Do I agree with executions? Maybe, but should
>the
>> person be guilty of it, yes. Do I agree with eating lutefish? No, I
>would
>> rather be executed. Do I agree with invading France? Hell yes, I
>do, I
>> think every nation on Earth, including Finland should invade France.
>Am I
>> kidding about some parts in the statement, yes I am, but I still like
>the
>> idea of everynation on Earth forming an Alliance to invade France.
>
>Thank god I put my drink down when I started reading this, or it would
>have been a guaranteed keyboard kill! By the end of the above, I was
>ROFLMAO, getting very surprised looks from the others in the office.
Can I count this as a keyboard kill? I mean it isn't my fault that
Craid didn't have a drink in his hand when he read this.
And, for you kind words, Craig.
>The humor was almost...English! <gdr>
Thank you, my father would be very proud of me right now. *wg*
>Regards,
>Craig.
I bid you peace, as long as you don't live in France of course.
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"
"I don't need Romance. I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
USS Excaliber.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, Dec 11 2000 22:51:35 GMT+1100
From: robocon@ozemail.com.au
Subject: Re : Haemerythrin
Oops!
Oxidation is an increase in ox number, reduction
the opposite.
Fe(2+) -> Fe(3+) is therefore an oxidation, not reduction as I posted incorrectly earlier.
Blame it on the night shift and an itchy finger on the send key... <g>
Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer
This message was sent through MyMail http://www.mymail.com.au
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 12:59:21 +0000
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: Mertactor
Just a quickie:
I could have sworn that this world in the Spinward Marches (1537) was
mentioned more than in passing somewhere in the Traveller literature (other
than _Behind the Claw_). I don't seem to be able to lay my mind or hands
on what it is that I'm recalling and wonder if anyone has a clue?
Cheers
tc
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 14:07:04 GMT
From: newbomb@home.com (The Right Reverend Newbomb Turk)
Subject: Re: Mertactor
On Mon, 11 Dec 2000 12:59:21 +0000, you wrote:
>Just a quickie:
>
>I could have sworn that this world in the Spinward Marches (1537) was
>mentioned more than in passing somewhere in the Traveller literature (other
>than _Behind the Claw_). I don't seem to be able to lay my mind or hands
>on what it is that I'm recalling and wonder if anyone has a clue?
>
It is mentioned in Adventure 4, pg 5, in refernce to McClellan
factor's shipping company.
It is also mentioned in Adventure 10, Safari Ship, The planet is the
starting point for this adventure.
Hope this helps.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 09:27:57 -0500 (EST)
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
Subject: Spacefaring Powers (was: "The Solomani Rim...")
On Sat, 9 Dec 2000, Antony Farrell wrote:
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Andrew
> Moffatt-Vallance
> Sent: Saturday, 9 December 2000 2:06 AM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: The Solomani Rim and the Interstellar Wars
>
>
> On 8 Dec 00, at 17:17, John P. Raynor wrote:
> > I'm trying to come up with a plausible list of "the top ten spacefaring
> > nations" when the jump drive was invented at the end in the 21st century.
>
> While this is more a matter for E21 than the IW, I'll have a stab at it.
>
> USA (with clients in Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean and Central America
> south to Honduras).
>
> European Union (Europe up to the former USSR border but without Turkey).
>
> Russian Federation (most of the former USSR, excluding the Baltic
> states, but including Finland).
If the "post-Soviet" central Asian states form a regional alliance, and
exploit their oil wealth, they might be able to keep Russia out...
> Arab Alliance (centred on Egypt and Saudi Arabia. Covers most of the
> African Mediterranean, the Levant, Turkey, Iraq and Pakistan)
>
> Subsaharan Alliance (South Africa and north to about Nigeria)
I just can't see any of these countries becoming "spacefaring powers,"
with the possible exception of South Africa and Nigeria. I don't know
very much about the region, but hasn't Nigeria been conducting military
interventions in the affairs of its neighbors? I can dimly envision a
Nigerian-dominanted supra-state in western Africa (there *is* oil wealth
there, and I vaguely recall "strategic metals" also being present). I
just can't see the rest of Subsaharan Africa pulling itself together
enough to venture into space (the shadow of AIDS is probably going to be
longer, and darker, than we expect).
> Indian Alliance (Centred and dominated by India, but including Iran,
> Bangladesh, Burma and Afghanistan; Excludes Pakistan)
Does India *need* to form a regional alliance? I can see if getting
spaceborne by itself. Historically, space programs have been nourished by
arms races. Well, India already has an arms race with Pakistan, and might
get (back?) into one with the People's Republic of China...
> South American Alliance (Centred on Brazil, running north to Colombia,
> includes Peru and Bolivia, excludes Argentina, Uruguay and Chile).
>
> Japanese Alliance (Japan, Korea, Indochina, Sumatra and Tawian).
I see Japan fading, and becoming (at best), the "first among equals" in an
eastern-Pacific-rim trading pact. I don't know very much about the
politics or economics of that region, but I like to picture a flagrantly
capitalistic, plutocrat-dominated future-Vietnam playing a decisive role
of some kind.
> China (dominates Philipines, Malaysia and Borneo)
I have heard that the development of regional loyalties is a growing
problem within the People's Republic of China, particularly with respect
to its more market-oriented southern regions, and its culturally-distinct
western regions. If the People's Republic of China keeps growing as it
has been lately, it may overshadow the United States of America by the
middle of the 21st century, but what if some Balkanization (and, perhaps,
fratricidal war) takes place there? I can see it splitting three ways:
the "north" (the part with Bejing) indulges in reactionary totalitarianism
and pointless squabbling with nearby Russia, the "west" joins some kind of
regional confederation with the "post-Soviet" central Asian states and
probably sinks into obscurity, and the "south" turns into a full-blown
economic "Asian Tiger," on a really grand scale.
> Australian Alliance (centred on Australia, includes NZ, PNG, Solomans,
> Irain Jaya, Java)
Is the United Kingdom part of the European Union? The name of one of the
starships which settled the Islands cluster ("C-Jammer") suggests that it
is, but what if the United Kingdom gets cold feet and decides *not* to
get entangled in continental politics? I kind of like the idea of a "New
British Empire," consisting of Great Britain, Anglo-Canada (but not
Quebec), New Zealand, and Australia. It might, however, be more
realistic and plausible without the royal family and the other trappings
of old-fashioned imperialism (the starship mentioned in "Trillion
Credit Squadron" might have been named by Euro-philic British emigrants,
for all we know).
- J. Raynor
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3376
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3377
Date: | 12/11/00 2:23:59 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Monday, December 11 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3377
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
RE: Silly adventure idea
GT Question
Re: Spacefaring Powers (was: "The Solomani Rim...")
RE: Ground Forces
RE: Silly adventure idea
Re: Mertactor
Re: GT Question
Re: San Jose December Meet
RE: San Jose December Meet
Re: Spacefaring Powers (was: "The Solomani Rim...")
RE: Jesse DeGraff - CALL ME!
Re: Spacefaring Powers (was: "The Solomani Rim...")
silly gravity theory
Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
RE: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
Another GT question...
Re: Another GT question...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 06:35:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Silly adventure idea
Gee, guys, ever thought that the free trader captain might not want to
jeopardise his ship by putting it in the line of fire, or in such a
situation that it might be identified to Imperial authorities? In this
case, you could have the free trader dumping off the characters and
then going off to hide until a pre-arranged pick-up signal? That way,
you remove any overwhelming fire support from the players in a
plausible manner - and they don't go hosing up your carefully prepared
scenario.
- --- tsykoduk <tsykoduk@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> I ran a similar adventure - but it was set out side of the borders of
> the
> Imperium.
>
> My enterprising characters snuck down in a launch they had, (They
> were in a
> slightly modified far trader) hoofed it to a hill over looking the
> compound,
> and started to call orbital laser and missile fire from the ship.
>
> That was another short one.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> I thought doing an adventure based on the film and novel THE DOGS OF
> WAR
> was a neat idea. I set it on Ruie in the Regina Subsector. I worked
> up the
> TO&E of the opposing forces and drew up maps of the target area and
> the
> presidential compound.
>
> I gave the PC's a free trader to haul their troops and gear. Instead
> of
> offloading the troops and having a proper firefight they hovered over
> the
> target and hosed it with the ship's lasers.
>
> I still had fun with the corrupt customs officer. ;-)
>
> Les
>
> ====================================
> Revolutionaries are not nice people.
> ====================================
>
=====
Gerry Harris
**********************************************************************************************
Æther Traveller — http://www.aethertraveller.com
Soldier's Companion — http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html
**********************************************************************************************
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war" — Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1
**********************************************************************************************
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 08:51:14 -0600
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: GT Question
I'm not a GURPS player. I was turned off when I saw all the books you
had to buy just to start playing Traveller (the Traveller book, the
basic GURPS books, the character books...and the others they
"recommend"). But, from what I've seen by flipping through the GT
products in the game store, I've been impressed with the quality of
Traveller material coming out of SJG.
Just from that, I can tell it's the best Traveller line to be published
in quite a number of years (since MT).
So, my questions is, for those of you who play GT: How comparable are
characters generated under the GURPS system (I know it's a point-based
system) to characters generated from other Traveller editions?
Specifically, what I'm curious about are stat range and skill range. In
the "classic" editions of the game, CT/MT/T4, you've got characters with
stats that range from 2-15, and skills that range from 0-6 or higher.
What is the stat range for a GT character?
What is the skill range?
Thanks,
Kenneth.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 14:56:28 +0000
From: Rob Myers <robm@h2g2.com>
Subject: Re: Spacefaring Powers (was: "The Solomani Rim...")
"John P. Raynor" wrote:
>
> On Sat, 9 Dec 2000, Antony Farrell wrote:
>
> > Australian Alliance (centred on Australia, includes NZ, PNG, Solomans,
> > Irain Jaya, Java)
>
> Is the United Kingdom part of the European Union?
Yes indeedy. Can we join NAFTA instead and get cheaper CDs, please?
> The name of one of the
> starships which settled the Islands cluster ("C-Jammer") suggests that it
> is, but what if the United Kingdom gets cold feet and decides *not* to
> get entangled in continental politics?
Interesting use of future tense there. British politicians have to avoid
offending the masses, the UK press, the other EU member states and the
US in everything they do regarding Europe. If a camel is a horse
designed by committee, the UK's involvement in Europe would be a camel
after it's had a particularly nasty topographic misunderstanding with a
teleporter. It's half-hearted and half-witted, which is a real shame and
an impending historical disaster.
> I kind of like the idea of a "New
> British Empire," consisting of Great Britain, Anglo-Canada (but not
> Quebec), New Zealand, and Australia.
Aussies and Kiwis on the list won't be so keen. Quebec will of course be
its own starfaring power.
One interesting/strong future British organization would be a UK/Indian
joint venture.
> It might, however, be more
> realistic and plausible without the royal family and the other trappings
> of old-fashioned imperialism (the starship mentioned in "Trillion
> Credit Squadron" might have been named by Euro-philic British emigrants,
> for all we know).
The Royals are a useful check on government power. The alternative is a presidency...
- - Rob.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 08:13:28 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: RE: Ground Forces
On Sun, 10 Dec 2000, Mikko V. I. Parviainen wrote:
> Yes, Finland has stricter rules about naming people than most other
> countries. This is in the process of being modified, but we still might
> have some order about things here. B-)
>
> For now, you could change your name one time with just notification, if
> the name is a Finnish one. There is still some red tape around acquiring a
> foreign name, but that is more and more easier.
>
> Not that I will be very happy to have people like "Christine Virtanen" as
> we have our own versions of the name, Kristiina.
Actually, I remember reading of a program in Sweden? Norway? some time
ago ecouraging people to CHANGE their names...as the sheer numbers of
people with the same name was drowning their bureacracy...such as
'Anderson' taking up the first third of the phone book, 'Johnson' and
variants taking up the next and such.
Though I should talk...there are 4 pages of 'Johnson' alone in our
phonebook. Heck our listing is under my wife's name, and we've found there
are 4 other Alison Johnson's in town...one of whom is about 15 now...she
and my wife had the same orthodontist...and we get phone calls for the
others all the time.
> We still have what you might call an own language, so all of us might not
> want to speak mongrel english, thank you.
Woof! Wowf wowf! Grrrr! ;-)
(at least that's the English that the mongrels around my house speak. ;-P
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 07:25:17 -0800
From: "tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@bigfoot.com>
Subject: RE: Silly adventure idea
The PC's owned the trader. ;)
Sokay, I am good on my feet. The TL-8 COACC forces did not really like that,
so they started lobbing missles at the trader - it ran and the guys on the
ground ended up in a sticky situation..
That turned into a really fun on ;)
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Gerry Harris
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 6:35 AM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: RE: Silly adventure idea
Gee, guys, ever thought that the free trader captain might not want to
jeopardise his ship by putting it in the line of fire, or in such a
situation that it might be identified to Imperial authorities? In this
case, you could have the free trader dumping off the characters and
then going off to hide until a pre-arranged pick-up signal? That way,
you remove any overwhelming fire support from the players in a
plausible manner - and they don't go hosing up your carefully prepared
scenario.
- --- tsykoduk <tsykoduk@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> I ran a similar adventure - but it was set out side of the borders of
> the
> Imperium.
>
> My enterprising characters snuck down in a launch they had, (They
> were in a
> slightly modified far trader) hoofed it to a hill over looking the
> compound,
> and started to call orbital laser and missile fire from the ship.
>
> That was another short one.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> I thought doing an adventure based on the film and novel THE DOGS OF
> WAR
> was a neat idea. I set it on Ruie in the Regina Subsector. I worked
> up the
> TO&E of the opposing forces and drew up maps of the target area and
> the
> presidential compound.
>
> I gave the PC's a free trader to haul their troops and gear. Instead
> of
> offloading the troops and having a proper firefight they hovered over
> the
> target and hosed it with the ship's lasers.
>
> I still had fun with the corrupt customs officer. ;-)
>
> Les
>
> ====================================
> Revolutionaries are not nice people.
> ====================================
>
=====
Gerry Harris
****************************************************************************
******************
Fther Traveller http://www.aethertraveller.com
Soldier's Companion
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html
****************************************************************************
******************
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war" Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act
3, Scene 1
****************************************************************************
******************
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 09:32:47 -0700
From: "J. Paul Sanders" <timmon@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Mertactor
It's the world setting for The Volentine Gambit - look in your Lost
Supplements collection for a local map, history and some library data. :)
At 12:59 PM 12/11/00 +0000, you wrote:
>
>
>
>Just a quickie:
>
>I could have sworn that this world in the Spinward Marches (1537) was
>mentioned more than in passing somewhere in the Traveller literature (other
>than _Behind the Claw_). I don't seem to be able to lay my mind or hands
>on what it is that I'm recalling and wonder if anyone has a clue?
>
>Cheers
>
>tc
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 09:13:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: GT Question
Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions writes:
> I'm not a GURPS player. I was turned off when I saw all the books you
> had to buy just to start playing Traveller (the Traveller book, the
> basic GURPS books, the character books...and the others they
> "recommend"). But, from what I've seen by flipping through the GT
> products in the game store, I've been impressed with the quality of
> Traveller material coming out of SJG.
SJG has a lot of books they'd like you to buy. They're a successful game
publisher, that's sort of a prerequisite. On the other hand, they also have
a history of producing materials that are mostly system-independent.
>
> Just from that, I can tell it's the best Traveller line to be published
> in quite a number of years (since MT).
>
> So, my questions is, for those of you who play GT: How comparable are
> characters generated under the GURPS system (I know it's a point-based
> system) to characters generated from other Traveller editions?
The systems are not particularly mechanically compatible.
>
> Specifically, what I'm curious about are stat range and skill range. In
> the "classic" editions of the game, CT/MT/T4, you've got characters with
> stats that range from 2-15, and skills that range from 0-6 or higher.
>
> What is the stat range for a GT character?
Under normal circumstances, roughly 9-16. I've seen stats outside that range
(there is no specific limit), but it's rare.
> What is the skill range?
Typically 8-20, though again, no formal limits.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 09:28:36 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: San Jose December Meet
>From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
>> As far as a wargame, I don't object to something that requires a little
less
>> preparation time than Striker. Invasion: Earth is fine with me.
>
>Hmm. I was thinking that also. I wonder if we could finish in one day.
And he became thereafter known as Kristian the Optimist.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 09:28:39 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: San Jose December Meet
>From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
>Another alternative is Azhanti High Lightning. We can certainly play a full
game in a day. We
>can even have the connection with the climactic battle on Mongo. "Ming's
Final Confrontation,"
>or something. Since the whole point is just to have fun, we can throw some
counters on the
>board, arbitrarily decide which ones are the rebels and which ones are the
loyalists, and go
>from there. Not really, but close to it.
We probably have enough sets of AHL among us to lay out almost every deck.
Maybe we have a running fight from the top to the bottom or something. I
also have the corporate complex floor plans from Seeker which we could use.
I kind of like the idea of a running fight in which the rebels are seeking
to kill or capture Ming and the loyalists are trying to get him out of the
area so that he can appear in next month's installment.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 12:32:46 -0500 (EST)
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
Subject: Re: Spacefaring Powers (was: "The Solomani Rim...")
On Mon, 11 Dec 2000, Rob Myers wrote:
> "John P. Raynor" wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, 9 Dec 2000, Antony Farrell wrote:
> >
> > > Australian Alliance (centred on Australia, includes NZ, PNG, Solomans,
> > > Irain Jaya, Java)
> >
> > Is the United Kingdom part of the European Union?
>
> Yes indeedy. Can we join NAFTA instead and get cheaper CDs, please?
Hrm...NAFTA.
I kind of like the idea of Mexico becoming a "regional power" in its own
right, rather than "just another member" of a trading organization
dominated by the United States. Any possibility of central America
emerging as a region with a collective sense of identity, under Mexican
leadership/protection?
> > The name of one of the starships which settled the Islands cluster
> > ("C-Jammer") suggests that it is, but what if the United Kingdom gets
> > cold feet and decides *not* to get entangled in continental politics?
>
> Interesting use of future tense there. British politicians have to avoid
> offending the masses, the UK press, the other EU member states and the
> US in everything they do regarding Europe. If a camel is a horse
> designed by committee, the UK's involvement in Europe would be a camel
> after it's had a particularly nasty topographic misunderstanding with a
> teleporter. It's half-hearted and half-witted, which is a real shame and
> an impending historical disaster.
A "historical disaster" of what sort?
> > I kind of like the idea of a "New British Empire," consisting of Great
> > Britain, Anglo-Canada (but not Quebec), New Zealand, and Australia.
>
> Aussies and Kiwis on the list won't be so keen. Quebec will of course be
> its own starfaring power.
> One interesting/strong future British organization would be a UK/Indian
> joint venture.
Interesting. I vaguely recall that Australia recently had a plebicite
regarding whether or not to become a republic (and decided not to take
that particularly plunge), but I must confess to being unaware of the
general state of the relationships between Australia, New Zealand, and
the United Kingdom. Do the Australians basically think of themselves as
"another pacific-rim nation," connected to the United Kingdom by language
and culture, but not politico-economic interest?
Anglo-Indian cooperation sounds nifty, however, particularly if (a) the
United Kingdom disengages (or fails to engage with) continental Europe,
and (b) the relationship between the United Kingdom and the United States
of America goes sour (a far-fetched, but amusing, possibility: British
intervention in civil war between Quebec and Anglo-Canada).
> > It might, however, be more realistic and plausible without the royal
> > family and the other trappings of old-fashioned imperialism (the
> > starship mentioned in "Trillion Credit Squadron" might have been named
> > by Euro-philic British emigrants, for all we know).
>
> The Royals are a useful check on government power. The alternative is
> a presidency...
Like many (perhaps most) Americans, I have a certain sentimental fondness
the monarchy, but the current crop of royals (particularly Prince Charles
himself) lacks charisma, and it's hard to see the institution surviving
without charisma. What do people think of Prince Charles' son? (y'know,
the one who looks so much like his mother). Perhaps "something bad" might
happen to Prince Charles, allowing the crown to pass directly to a more
charismatic/photogenic wearer... Is there *anything*, by the way, that
could (plausibly) give the British monarchy a more substantial role in
actual government?
- J. Raynor
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 09:38:04 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: Jesse DeGraff - CALL ME!
;)
Jesse
"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Dominic Mooney
> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2000 10:03 AM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: Jesse DeGraff - CALL ME!
>
>
> At 20:48 -0500 7/12/00, "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > 64,999,987 firearm owners killed no one yesterday.
> > > Somehow, it didn't make the news.
> >
> >SPLORT!
> >
> >Congrats. You've got my first keyboard kill.
>
> 64,999,986 then....
>
> Dom
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 17:51:36 +0000
From: Rob Myers <robm@h2g2.com>
Subject: Re: Spacefaring Powers (was: "The Solomani Rim...")
"John P. Raynor" wrote:
>
> On Mon, 11 Dec 2000, Rob Myers wrote:
> > the UK's involvement in Europe would be a camel
> > after it's had a particularly nasty topographic misunderstanding with a
> > teleporter. It's half-hearted and half-witted, which is a real shame and
> > an impending historical disaster.
>
> A "historical disaster" of what sort?
Well, if the UK gets things wrong, we're a third-world state once the
North Sea oil runs out.
> Interesting. I vaguely recall that Australia recently had a plebicite
> regarding whether or not to become a republic (and decided not to take
> that particularly plunge),
I'm told that the republic offered to them was designed to be
unacceptable so the monarchists could say "told you so!" when no-one
voted for it.
> but I must confess to being unaware of the
> general state of the relationships between Australia, New Zealand, and
> the United Kingdom. Do the Australians basically think of themselves as
> "another pacific-rim nation," connected to the United Kingdom by language
> and culture, but not politico-economic interest?
I think they view themselves as God's Chosen People and the British as
overbearing, colonial dinosaurs, but I could be being too harsh. :-)
> Anglo-Indian cooperation sounds nifty, however, particularly if (a) the
> United Kingdom disengages (or fails to engage with) continental Europe,
> and (b) the relationship between the United Kingdom and the United States
> of America goes sour
The Spice Girls and Oasis aren't doing too well in the US at the moment,
so things could turn nasty yet. :-)
> Like many (perhaps most) Americans, I have a certain sentimental fondness
> the monarchy, but the current crop of royals (particularly Prince Charles
> himself) lacks charisma, and it's hard to see the institution surviving
> without charisma. What do people think of Prince Charles' son? (y'know,
> the one who looks so much like his mother).
All the papers today have a picture of him cleaning out the bogs on an
overseas placement scheme. :-) The guy's something of a pin-up and may
provide the required charisma. Maybe.
> Perhaps "something bad" might
> happen to Prince Charles, allowing the crown to pass directly to a more
> charismatic/photogenic wearer... Is there *anything*, by the way, that
> could (plausibly) give the British monarchy a more substantial role in
> actual government?
Not really. The limits on the monarch's power are fundamental to the
UK's power structure. The token place in government the monarcy holds is
kept as long as they don't act politically themselves. Monarchs in other
European states in some ways have more power as they can at least say
what they think.
- - Rob.
- --
Rob Myers - http://www.robmyers.org/ H2G2 - http://www.h2g2.com/
MacOS wonderfulness for The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy Game.
"Smash Global Capitalism! Spend less money!"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 14:01:20 EST
From: JimVassila@aol.com
Subject: silly gravity theory
Greg D. Moore (mooregr@greenms.com) writes on sci.space.science:
>Scientists have managed to merge E-M, weak and I think even Strong now.
>
>Gravity is still the odd ball out.
Okay, somebody feel free to shoot me down, because I know absolutely nothing
about this sort of stuff, but on Thanksgiving, while contemplating the
massive meal ahead of me, a strange idea suddenly hit me, an idea about
gravity (perhaps I was wondering how much more I would weigh at the end of
the day).
First, I was thinking that one unique aspect of gravity is that it has an
unlimited range, at least as far as we can tell. This seems very odd. Also,
it's strength is inversely proportional to the square of the distance. Why
the square and not the cube or perhaps a direct inverse correlation?
To help set this up, I remember reading in some physics for lay-idiots book
about a theory on how the vacuum of space is not really a vacuum but rather a
sea of virtual particles which are popping into existence and then negating
themselves so quickly and at such a tiny level that we don't even notice them.
Now, suppose that these particles do exist and that they do notice each
other... ie they can bounce off one another, exerting their almost
infintesimal momentum upon one another like a swarm of zillions of tiny
billiard balls. Furthermore, suppose that during their brief existance, they
can exert their momentum on ordinary matter. Futhermore, suppose that
ordinary matter "sucks them up" like a hoover, despite the fact that their
momentum is conserved/transmitted to ordinary matter in the process.
This is a bizarre idea, and I'm sure there are a million problems with it,
but being uneducated in such things, I dunno what they are. So (donning
asbesto skivies), feel free to shoot me down. It's okay, I'm here to learn.
Anyway, here's the argument. Because ordinary atoms act like miniature black
holes, causing all these tiny particles to fall into them (and being, in
part, converted to atomic momentum), there is your one-sentence explanation
for how gravity works. Two masses will be drawn to each other because these
tiny billiard balls will get sucked up by each, and the ones on the outsides
will out-momentum the ones on the insides, and the tendency will be to push
the two masses toward each other. Picture a big swimming pool. Now imagine
two "floating holes" where the water drains out. Assuming that the water can
"push" the holes even while it is being taken from the pool, these two holes
will seek each other out and ultimately combine into one.
But why the inverse-square effect? Well, picture a one dimension universe, a
line. Picture it with a mass drawing these minute particles toward it like an
escalator. Now picture yourself as one of these particles. It doesn't matter
how far away you are from the mass. You'll move toward it at the same rate,
because it's exactly like you're on an escalator. Here, gravity is constant
with respect to distance. In a two-dimensional universe, a flat space,
distance does matter. Here, the force of gravity is directly inverse to
distance. And in a three-dimensional universe, distance really matters. Here,
the force of gravity is inverse to the square of the distance. Voila, an easy
explanation for the inverse-square rule.
Furthermore, these "virtual particles" might also account for inertia. Their
concentration could provide the degree of resistance mass has to
accelleration. Mass at a constant rate of motion is not effected, as it is
being "banged" from all sides equally (assuming the absense of other nearby
masses). But mass which is transferred momentum from another mass has to
confront these virtual particles head-on, and that's what keeps accelleration
under control.
I know, it's a dumb theory, and I don't have any idea what I'm talking about.
Truly, I know nothing, but I'm willing to learn (so long as you don't ask me
to do too much math). Oh... speaking of math, I've got a silly side-question.
What are the formulas for the circumferences of elipses and ovals?
Hasta... -Jim (jimvassila@aol.com)
PS: How this all relates to Traveller is that once you define the mechanism
of gravity, you can come up with some mechanism for gravitic suppression (or
even antigravity if you're lucky). I was pondering the Wired article on
antigravity (http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/6.03/antigravity.html), and
began wondering if a spinning magnetic field could be "messing" with the flow
of these virtual particles, behaving as a sort of spinning rotor blade might
behave in a water pipe, impeding but not preventing the flow. Of course,
since nothing has come of such spinning-field research, I doubt there is
anything to it, but it would certainly help any sf-rpg to have some
explanation for how gravity and antigravity both work. Might turn this into a
Guildsman article if any of you can lend some insight.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 11:39:54 -0800 (PST)
From: William Molendyk <wmolendyk@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
- --- Bernie McGeehan <einreb62@yahoo.com> wrote:
>snip<
> I dont understand why Drop Tanks are so expensive.
> I've thought of using collapsable tanks. That shouldnt
> be all that expensive, and they'd fold up after
> they're drained, back into the ship. Anyone else think
> of this?
I had the same idea. Then I thought about how long a period of time you have
betwween draining the tanks and jumping. I limit the amount of time the jump
capacitors can be fully charged to one turn. If you use something like MAYDAY,
1000 second turns, then you nave just over 16 minutes to jump after draining
the tanks. Liquid hydrogen is cold, it makes the tank linings brittle. I just
assumed that it takes longer than one turn to warm up the tanks and collapse
them inside of the jump grid. Failure to do so results in a misjump. It was
deemed to dangerous to be practical.
William Molendyk
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 19:57:34 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
William Molendyk wrote:
> --- Bernie McGeehan <einreb62@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >snip<
> > I dont understand why Drop Tanks are so expensive.
> > I've thought of using collapsable tanks. That shouldnt
> > be all that expensive, and they'd fold up after
> > they're drained, back into the ship. Anyone else think
> > of this?
>
> I had the same idea. Then I thought about how long a period of
> time you have betwween draining the tanks and jumping. I limit
> the amount of time the jump capacitors can be fully charged to
> one turn.
<snip>
High Guard gives us a 2 turn limit: you can charge your
capacitors for 1 turn or 2 consecutive turns before jumping,
waiting any longer will abort the jump.
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 15:54:01 -0600
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Another GT question...
Are there any GT adventures out? If you start playing GT, do you have
to put a lot of time in as a GM, making up a scenario, or are there
published adventures, using GT rules, that you can buy?
Thanks,
Kenneth
(who's deciding if he should check out the GT stuff--or stick with
what he's got...)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 17:22:14 -0500
From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: Another GT question...
Kenneth Bearden wrote:
> Are there any GT adventures out? If you start playing GT, do you have
>to put a lot of time in as a GM, making up a scenario, or are there
>published adventures, using GT rules, that you can buy?
Each GT book has adventure hooks and campaign suggestions, but nothing by way of actual fully-scripted adventures. This (in addition to those pesky GURPS mechanics) is my biggest (only?) complaint about the GT line -- there's really nothing to play 'straight out of the box.'
As for whether or not to buy the books, it's really a matter of what you're interested in and how much money you want to spend. All of them are valuable as references and idea-mines, but I daresay none are absolutely essential. Personally, I only have the core GT rulebook (more for collecting's sake than anything else) 'First In,' and 'Far Trader.' I had decided to buy 'Behind the Claw' not too long ago but couldn't find it at the FLGS and by the time I would've gotten around to ordering it online I'd found other things to spend my money on.
(Proviso: I also have almost everything published for Traveller's previous 4 incarnations; if you don't, you might find some of GT books (especially the Aliens series) more 'necessary' than I do)
Trent
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3377
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3378
Date: | 12/11/00 6:14:52 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Monday, December 11 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3378
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Another GT question...
RE: Another GT question...
Re: G:T Products
RE: Another GT question...
Re: GT Question
Re: Another GT question...
Re: silly gravity theory
Re: GT Question
Re: silly gravity theory
Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
RE: silly gravity theory
Why Math Rules (was Re: silly gravity theory)
Re: silly gravity theory
Re: Another GT question...
Re: C.H.A.D.
Re: Another GT question...
Re: Another GT question...
Re: Another GT question...
RE: Silly adventure idea
Re: Another GT question...
Re: Another GT question...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 17:28:38 EST
From: JFZeigler@aol.com
Subject: Re: Another GT question...
In a message dated 12/11/00 4:56:16 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dreamer@brokersys.com writes:
> Are there any GT adventures out? If you start playing GT, do you have
> to put a lot of time in as a GM, making up a scenario, or are there
> published adventures, using GT rules, that you can buy?
This goes to SJG editorial policy, actually.
The trend over the last few years has been to include a bunch of
"adventure seeds" and other campaign ideas in every GURPS book,
so as to avoid the problem of "I like this setting or these rules but
I can't think of any adventures for them."
On the other hand, SJG has long since given up on producing books
of adventures for GURPS, because they have historically sold badly.
Gripping hand, the on-line JTAS has published many adventure
scenarios, and this looks like the best place to get adventure ideas
for the foreseeable future. It's relatively cheap, too.
- ----------
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty
set of people who will take offense at it."
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 14:30:32 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: Another GT question...
Just FYI for Kenneth regarding your adventure comments. The reason that the
G:T line, and GURPS in general, doesn't have any adventures or adventure
series out is that they've historically been very poor sellers for SJG. No
demand, no production <shrugs>. You could always use the old Traveller
adventures or buy the adventures that BITS, as a small publisher, puts out.
I've found them very cool, and I'm not just saying that 'cause I've done a
couple of the covers ;)
Best,
Jesse
"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of
> trentfs@ix.netcom.com
> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 2:22 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: Another GT question...
>
>
> Kenneth Bearden wrote:
> > Are there any GT adventures out? If you start playing GT, do you have
> >to put a lot of time in as a GM, making up a scenario, or are there
> >published adventures, using GT rules, that you can buy?
>
> Each GT book has adventure hooks and campaign suggestions, but
> nothing by way of actual fully-scripted adventures. This (in
> addition to those pesky GURPS mechanics) is my biggest (only?)
> complaint about the GT line -- there's really nothing to play
> 'straight out of the box.'
>
> As for whether or not to buy the books, it's really a matter of
> what you're interested in and how much money you want to spend.
> All of them are valuable as references and idea-mines, but I
> daresay none are absolutely essential. Personally, I only have
> the core GT rulebook (more for collecting's sake than anything
> else) 'First In,' and 'Far Trader.' I had decided to buy 'Behind
> the Claw' not too long ago but couldn't find it at the FLGS and
> by the time I would've gotten around to ordering it online I'd
> found other things to spend my money on.
>
> (Proviso: I also have almost everything published for
> Traveller's previous 4 incarnations; if you don't, you might find
> some of GT books (especially the Aliens series) more 'necessary'
> than I do)
>
> Trent
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:38:39 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: G:T Products
On 7 Dec 2000, at 17:47, David P. Summers wrote:
> I've seen 2300AD GURPS games mentioned. I don't remember
> where. You might post a question on the GURPS mailing list....
Done that. The consensus amongst the GURPS gearheads seems to be that the only
ones that anyone's seen aren't done right.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 16:40:18 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Another GT question...
The reason that there are no more GURPS adventure books is because GURPS
players and GMs are predominately of the more experienced sort. This is
because GURPS is too complicated for the average gamer (i.e. the people who
don't waste 50+% of their time talking about gaming on a mailing list).
And so it is easy to derive from this that GURPS is NOT overly helpful in
solving the major problem facing the gaming industry, which is that there
aren't enough new gamers entering the hobby to support its numbers after all
of the older players (i.e. Gary Gygax, Ed Greenwood, half the TML, etc.)
have died off.
- -J. Jensen
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 09:43:45 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: GT Question
On Mon, Dec 11, 2000 at 08:51:14AM -0600, Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:
> So, my questions is, for those of you who play GT: How comparable are
> characters generated under the GURPS system (I know it's a point-based
> system) to characters generated from other Traveller editions?
Hard to say. The character statistics are not really directly
comparable. Do you mean in terms of "effectiveness"?
GURPS skills tend to be narrower than skills in the other Traveller
versions I've seen, and there are more of them. So a direct
comparison of skill levels is rather difficult. The system used to
resolve them is also different. In general skill levels seem to have
more effect in GURPS (i.e. range of skill levels is greater in
comparison to dice variance)
The biggest change is the ability to choose everything about your
character. This enables you to do a better job of fitting any given
character concept. The danger in practice is that players can choose
to concentrate unrealistically heavily in skills and abilities that
are useful in dangerous situations, and some tend to do so to a bit of
an extreme.
> What is the stat range for a GT character?
10 is average by definition. 20+ is superhuman. Most players tend to
choose stats in the 8-15 range for the four basic ones. However,
there are advantages and disadvantages that act like stats in many
ways, or modify their effects. e.g. Social Status, Illiteracy, Lame,
etc.
> What is the skill range?
4-6 is a typical skill level for someone with no experience whatsoever
and average talent (IQ or DX stats) -- operating "by default".
Minimal experience increases that to about 7-9. Most "job" levels are
in the range 12-15, with 18 being about the level of a well-known
expert. Skill levels technically have no upper limit, though it is
rare to see a skill much over 20 in even the most munchkin PC (in my
experience).
From this, you can see what I meant about skill level being a much
stronger determinant of success in GURPS. In MT for example, the
skill range is about 6, applied to a roll that has a typical range of
about 7 points of random variation. In GURPS, the skill range of
about 15 is applied to a roll with a typical variation of about 9.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 10:03:19 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Another GT question...
On Mon, Dec 11, 2000 at 03:54:01PM -0600, Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:
> Are there any GT adventures out? If you start playing GT, do you have
> to put a lot of time in as a GM, making up a scenario, or are there
> published adventures, using GT rules, that you can buy?
I haven't seen any specifically GT adventures, though I haven't been
looking for long. In general, SJG publishes few adventure
supplements, concentrating mainly on settings and rules. Existing
Traveller adventures are pretty easy to convert on-the-fly, if you
know GURPS rules pretty well.
I'm not a published-adventure sort of person, though. Players always
do something sufficiently unexpected that the whole rest of the
prepared text becomes completely irrelevant. Or in some cases,
completely expected but for some reason the author didn't allow for it
anyway, and the rest of the adventure rests on a false assumption.
Too many times I've read "when the PCs do X...", where it should
really read "IF the PCs do X...", because they always do W, Y, or Z
instead. Too often the rest *relies* on someone doing X, or at least
not making X impossible or irrelevant.
I usually get to use less than 20%, so it's not really a good
investment of my time (reading, customising, and setting up the
adventure) or money. When I make my own adventures, I have a much
better idea of what my particular group of PCs is likely to do, what
they want, and how to fit it in to the campaign context. I'm
certainly not above pinching nifty ideas, though :^)
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 15:06:28 -0800
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: Re: silly gravity theory
JimVassila@aol.com wrote:
> I know, it's a dumb theory, and I don't have any idea what I'm talking
about.
> Truly, I know nothing, but I'm willing to learn (so long as you don't ask
me
> to do too much math). Oh... speaking of math, I've got a silly
side-question.
> What are the formulas for the circumferences of elipses and ovals?
There is one reason why this theory _can't_ be true while relativity _must_
be true: the mathematics of relativity is extremely elegant and beautiful,
while this theory doesn't have any mathematical basis.
<digression into hyperbolic geometry and differential geometry omitted>
Anyway, the circumference for an ellipse is not easy to write down. It's
_approximately_ 2 * pi * sqrt[(a^2 + b^2)/2], where a and b are the lengths
of the axes. The _exact_ form involves elliptic integrals, which most
elementary books don't cover.
For an oval, you probably need to parameterize your oval and then do an arc
length integration.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 15:09:53 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: GT Question
At 8:51 AM -0600 12/11/00, Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:
>I'm not a GURPS player. I was turned off when I saw all the books you
>had to buy just to start playing Traveller (the Traveller book, the
>basic GURPS books, the character books...and the others they
>"recommend"). But, from what I've seen by flipping through the GT
>products in the game store, I've been impressed with the quality of
>Traveller material coming out of SJG.
I don't know what they recommend, but the Basic book and GT
gives you the basic rules and setting.
>So, my questions is, for those of you who play GT: How comparable are
>characters generated under the GURPS system (I know it's a point-based
>system) to characters generated from other Traveller editions?
The main difference is the "feel" of character is disadvantages
and, to a lesser degree, advantages. You can construct a character
who is dexterous, knows how to repair a jump drive, etc. like in
MT. You can by some of the special abilities that could rolled
into the character (wealth, a ship, etc) as advantages. However,
GURPS goes beyond that with a lot more advantages and the system
of disads allows you to define things about your character (honest,
lames, etc) that really weren't in MT. I find this a good thing
but your mileage may vary.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net. My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 13:41:16 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: silly gravity theory
In mail you write:
> Greg D. Moore (mooregr@greenms.com) writes on sci.space.science:
>>Scientists have managed to merge E-M, weak and I think even Strong now.
>>
>>Gravity is still the odd ball out.
>
> Okay, somebody feel free to shoot me down, because I know absolutely nothing
> about this sort of stuff, but on Thanksgiving, while contemplating the
> massive meal ahead of me, a strange idea suddenly hit me, an idea about
> gravity (perhaps I was wondering how much more I would weigh at the end of
> the day).
>
> First, I was thinking that one unique aspect of gravity is that it has an
> unlimited range, at least as far as we can tell.
Not unique. So does electromagnetism. and for the same reason. The
"exchange particles" that transmit the force (gravitons and photons,
respectively) have no mass.
Why this gives them infinite reason requires getting into "virtual
particles" which means getting into the uncertainty principle and other
things.
But basicly, it goes like this. A virtual particle can "borrow" energy
for a period of time inversely proportional to its mass.
So, massless exchange particles only have to pay for the energy of the
force they are transmitting. Which means even at just short of
infinity, they can have an appropriately miniscule amount of energy
"delivered" before they vanish.
But exchange particles with a mass (such as those of the stroing and
weak forces) can only go so far before the entire energy they borrowed
is that tied up in their mass. So they have a maximum (and damned
short!) range.
> This seems very odd. Also,
> it's strength is inversely proportional to the square of the distance. Why
> the square and not the cube or perhaps a direct inverse correlation?
Because the universe is three dimensional. At a given distance, the
particles emitted have to cover an area that is the square of the
distance.
And in the part I snipped, I noted comments about inertia possibly
being related to the "quantum foam" that is the "vacuum energy". That
idea has been kicking around for a while. It's not a *theory* (in the
scientific sense) or even a hypothesis, since so far nobody has figured
out a way to *test* the idea.
If there's no way to devise a test for an idea, it's not science (yet).
Come up with a possible test, and you've got a hypothesis. And if it
survives a few tests, then it may make it to theory.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 15:12:00 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
At 5:52 PM -0800 12/10/00, Bernie McGeehan wrote:
> > >> Hehehehe. Yes, there are in CT. They are called
> > 'Jump Tanks' and work like
> > >> stages on a 'modern' rocket - IE you ditch the
> > fuel tanks after they are
> > >> used up. An expensive way to go, but it will
> > work.
>
>I dont understand why Drop Tanks are so expensive.
>I've thought of using collapsable tanks. That shouldnt
>be all that expensive, and they'd fold up after
>they're drained, back into the ship. Anyone else think
>of this?
It isn't clear at all why drop tanks should be so expensive
or why you can't have tanks that collapse back into the
ship. That is one issue with them.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net. My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 15:13:56 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
At 8:14 PM -0800 12/10/00, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>The problemn is that you have to be able to get the fuel out of the
>tanks *very* fast *and* at the same time be able to blow the tanks free
>and get them far enough away iin the short period between feeding the
>last of the fuel to the drive and jumping.
Actually, if you look at the problem, you don't want to "blow"
the tanks. If you want to move something continuous accel is
better than giving it one push and then letting it coast away.
One might talk about putting thrusters on the tanks to hurl them
away, but that is pointless when you already have thrusters on
the ship.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net. My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 15:17:11 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
At 11:39 AM -0800 12/11/00, William Molendyk wrote:
>--- Bernie McGeehan <einreb62@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >snip<
> > I dont understand why Drop Tanks are so expensive.
> > I've thought of using collapsable tanks. That shouldnt
> > be all that expensive, and they'd fold up after
> > they're drained, back into the ship. Anyone else think
> > of this?
>
>I had the same idea. Then I thought about how long a period of time you have
>betwween draining the tanks and jumping. I limit the amount of time the jump
>capacitors can be fully charged to one turn. If you use something like MAYDAY,
>1000 second turns, then you nave just over 16 minutes to jump after draining
>the tanks. Liquid hydrogen is cold, it makes the tank linings
>brittle. I just
>assumed that it takes longer than one turn to warm up the tanks and collapse
>them inside of the jump grid.
This is an engineering problem that is soluble at our current
TL. Heating the tank isn't a problem and, if you design it right,
you can empty the out portions and begin collapsing before the
tank is even empty. I don't really see it as a problem at GTL 10+.
Though it isn't clear why you have to transfer hydrogen or why
you can just burn it and send over the energy....
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net. My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 00:00:44 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: silly gravity theory
Luther Martin wrote:
> There is one reason why this theory _can't_ be true while
> relativity _must_ be true: the mathematics of relativity is
> extremely elegant and beautiful, while this theory doesn't
> have any mathematical basis.
Er ... which is why we know the total mass of the universe is
exactly enough to eventually halt the expansion of the universe
(no more, no less) ... why planets orbit in spherical paths ...
and these orbits are defined by the five perfect solids (aka:
Kepler's Cosmic Mystery).
Alternatively, "extremely elegant and beutiful" mathematics is
just the universe's way of playing a prank on physicists!
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 16:19:53 -0800
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: Why Math Rules (was Re: silly gravity theory)
Peter Trevor wrote:
> > There is one reason why this theory _can't_ be true while
> > relativity _must_ be true: the mathematics of relativity is
> > extremely elegant and beautiful, while this theory doesn't
> > have any mathematical basis.
>
> Er ... which is why we know the total mass of the universe is
> exactly enough to eventually halt the expansion of the universe
> (no more, no less) ... why planets orbit in spherical paths ...
> and these orbits are defined by the five perfect solids (aka:
> Kepler's Cosmic Mystery).
There's nothing inelegant about elliptical orbits or any of that other
stuff. Elegant does not mean overly simple, after all. Nor incorrect. For
example, Special Relativity is an application of hyperbolic geometry. Just
because it's a bit more complex than the normal stuff doesn't make it any
less elegant.
This may be why string theory is not a sure thing. After all, have you ever
heard anyone describe how elegant the math of string theory is? Certainly
not me. I tried to read a book on the math behind string theory recently,
and couldn't figure out what was going on.
> Alternatively, "extremely elegant and beutiful" mathematics is
> just the universe's way of playing a prank on physicists!
Even Einstein himself said something like "Physicists answer only to
mathematicians and mathematicians answer only to God."
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 16:41:18 -0800
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: Re: silly gravity theory
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> Why this gives them infinite reason requires getting into "virtual
> particles" which means getting into the uncertainty principle and other
> things.
As far as I have seen, virtual particles are just an artifact of an
*approximation* technique (purturbation theory) which is used to solve
certain QM problems. The actual solution is exact rather than approximate,
and obeys the QM stuff, not the approximation. This seems to but the actual
existence of them in a somewhat suspicious light. If anyone can point me to
a reference which makes their basis rigorous (i.e. mathematical) I would
love to see it.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 18:46:05 -0600
From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@mail.elc.net>
Subject: Re: Another GT question...
From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com
>Kenneth Bearden wrote:
>> Are there any GT adventures out? If you start playing GT, do you have
>>to put a lot of time in as a GM, making up a scenario, or are there
>>published adventures, using GT rules, that you can buy?
>
>Each GT book has adventure hooks and campaign suggestions, but nothing by way of actual fully-scripted adventures. This (in addition to those pesky GURPS mechanics) is my biggest (only?) complaint about the GT line -- there's really nothing to play 'straight out of the box.'
This is mainly a result of SJ Games finding that adventures for GURPS sell poorly. Mind you, I think this is more due to the format (4 adventures per 128 page book, rather than, say, 10 12-page adventures or 12 10-page adventures), but others may disagree.
Also, First In has a couple of "detailed" adventure seeds, and Star Mercs has several. I've used all kinds of sources for Traveller adventures, including Challenge magazine, JTAS and other games (I used to be notorious for converting material from other games into GURPS).
>As for whether or not to buy the books, it's really a matter of what you're interested in and how much money you want to spend. All of them are valuable as references and idea-mines, but I daresay none are absolutely essential. Personally, I only have the core GT rulebook (more for collecting's sake than anything else) 'First In,' and 'Far Trader.' I had decided to buy 'Behind the Claw' not too long ago but couldn't find it at the FLGS and by the time I would've gotten around to ordering it online I'd found other things to spend my money on.
I would suggest First In unless (a) you already have GURPS Space or (b) you don't really care for scout-oriented campaigns. Well, if you have Book 6: Scouts, you don't really need it either ...
Star Mercs (despite some problems) is good if you want to run a mercenary campain, Far Trader for a merchant campaign and Ground Forces for an active military campaign. I liked Starports but have yet to find a use for it, so I can't recommend it. Behind the Claw isn't bad, especially if you plan on doing anything in the Spinward Marches. Alien Races 1 is probably the best of the three AR books, though #3 has the hivers and droyne, the two most alien races in Traveller (plus some stuff on the Ancients). Of the "new" races introduced in the AR books, I only liked the ones in #1.
A generous and sadistic GM,
Brandon Cope
http://www.geocities.com/copeab
*** new: generic adventure seeds, Traveller page, baseball for GURPS ***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 19:44:03 -0500
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net>
Subject: Re: C.H.A.D.
Regards C.H.A.D. this odd historical note, quote:
Almighty God, whose servant Chad, for the peace of the Church, relinquished
cheerfully the honors that had been thrust upon him: Keep us, we pray, from
thinking of ourselves more highly than we ought to think, and ready at all
times to step aside for others.
(From the Prayer to St. Chad, Bishop of Lichfield, 669-672)
Oddly, while I'm not even remotely religious, I find this prayer appropriate
to recommend to those who are the principals in the currently hotly
contested election.
Now back to the current debate on how to suck a blivit dry in milli-seconds.
Dan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 16:49:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Another GT question...
Brandon Cope writes:
>>
> This is mainly a result of SJ Games finding that adventures for GURPS sell
> poorly. Mind you, I think this is more due to the format (4 adventures per 128 page book, rather than, say, 10 12-page adventures or 12 10-page adventures), but others may disagree.
There's a reason that almost _no-one_ makes adventures any more. They just
don't make much money. D&D is about the only exception, and I wouldn't be
too surprised if D&D adventures don't make much money either.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 17:11:30 -0800
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: Re: Another GT question...
Anthony Jackson wrote:
> > This is mainly a result of SJ Games finding that adventures for GURPS
sell
> > poorly. Mind you, I think this is more due to the format (4 adventures
per 128 page book, rather than, say, 10 12-page adventures or 12 10-page
adventures), but others may disagree.
>
> There's a reason that almost _no-one_ makes adventures any more. They
just
> don't make much money. D&D is about the only exception, and I wouldn't be
> too surprised if D&D adventures don't make much money either.
This is really too bad. The most fun I ever had running a game was many
years ago when I ran the entire series of modules: G1, G2, G3, D1, D2, D3,
and finally Q1, all from TSR. These modules together told a great story,
taking the mid-level heroes all the way from a group fighting to save people
from a raiding group of giants, all the way up to confronting a demon on her
own personal layer of the abyss. Some lucky (?) magic-user ended up losing
an eye to some nasty Drow, only to have it replaced by the Eye of Vecna
shortly thereafter, although the "capricious alignment change" periodically
caused by the artifact caused a bit of confusion from time to time. I don't
remember exactly why, but disintegration spells quickly became the favorite
after descending into the caves. Things went fairly well up to and including
the assault on the Drow city, but once in the abyss all heck broke loose. I
think that most of the characters ended up stranded in some strange level of
the abyss while a select few somehow made it back to civilization, some with
a newly-found fear of spiders and others with different types of insanity.
It was also the first experience that any of the players had with D&D, and a
great time was had by all. You could have run the modules using any game
system, although not many were around back then, and had the same level of
fun.
Wow, that was about 20 years ago.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 20:22:31 -0500
From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: Another GT question...
Anthony Jackson wrote:
> There's a reason that almost _no-one_ makes adventures any more. They just
>don't make much money. D&D is about the only exception, and I wouldn't be
>too surprised if D&D adventures don't make much money either.
True as that may be, it's little consolation to those of us who like to run games on the fly, without taking days, or even weeks, to prepare. Back when I was in high-school and had copious free time I used to write my own scenarios with the best of 'em, but now that I work for a living I need all the time-saving help I can get. Even when I deviate far and wide from the 'scripted' plots (which I always do!) I still like having a fixed baseline from which to improvise, as well as things like maps, NPC stats, and cool handout-props, which are way too tedious and time-consuming to generate on my own.
And yes, I know that I can convert old modules or ones from different games, which I do (not to mention the fact that I haven't been part of an active campaign for years); but it'd be nice if they were publishing new stuff, too...
Trent
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 01:31:24 -0000
From: "Peter Scarrott" <peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Silly adventure idea
- -----Original message----------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 07:25:17 -0800
From: "tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@bigfoot.com>
The PC's owned the trader. ;)
Sokay, I am good on my feet. The TL-8 COACC forces did not really like that,
so they started lobbing missiles at the trader - it ran and the guys on the
ground ended up in a sticky situation..
That turned into a really fun on ;)
- ------end original--------
As a GM I always love it when PC's put there only way out in harms way. If
you have one form of getaway vehicle NEVER put it at risk unless you have
absolutely NO choice. Ideally the opposition should never know what your
getaway transport is until you leave, and preferably not then. In addition
I'm sure some Imperial agency is going to be interested in a group prepared
to use Starship weaponry vs. ground installations, and unless the players
destroy the whole planet someone is going to be able to ID them after the
event. Big and Flashy is very nice but it attracts all sorts of BAD
attention.
Peter
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk (Trav & AD&D)
peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
IMTU: tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and
miss.
Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love (By Robert.Heinlan)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 17:57:21 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Another GT question...
At 4:49 PM -0800 12/11/00, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>Brandon Cope writes:
> >>
> > This is mainly a result of SJ Games finding that adventures for GURPS sell
> > poorly. Mind you, I think this is more due to the format (4
>adventures per 128 page book, rather than, say, 10 12-page
>adventures or 12 10-page adventures), but others may disagree.
>
>There's a reason that almost _no-one_ makes adventures any more. They just
>don't make much money. D&D is about the only exception, and I wouldn't be
>too surprised if D&D adventures don't make much money either.
In the past adventures have been evaluated strictly on their own
money making return (as I understand it). I wonder if, in this case,
it wouldn't be in SJG's interest to put some out. Even if they don't
make a lot of money, they may support sales of the rest of the
line....
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net. My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 20:11:23 -0600
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Another GT question...
"David P. Summers" wrote:
> Even if they don't
> make a lot of money, they may support sales of the rest of the
> line....
I agree. For me, it's a time issue. I like to read an adventure, customize it,
and go. I DON'T LIKE spending all of my free time, what little there is of it,
making up an adventure.
I'm always drawn to games where all the work is done for you--plug-n-play. That
way, it's my choice to play it "as-is", or spend time "making it my own".
I link non-related adventures together into grand campaigns, too.
Basically...I don't want to research and write the script, I just want to direct
the movie.
Kenneth.
>
>
> ______________________________
> summers@alum.mit.edu
> (This is the net. My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3378
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3379
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, December 12 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3379
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Another GT question...
Re: Another GT question...
Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
RE: silly gravity theory
Re: Another GT question...
Re: Another GT question...
Silly Skills
Re: silly gravity theory
Re: Silly Skills
Re: silly gravity theory
RE: Silly adventure idea
Re: silly gravity theory
Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
Re: Spacefaring Powers (was: "The Solomani Rim...")
Re: Spacefaring Powers (was: "The Solomani Rim...")
RE: Silly Skills
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 21:11:49 -0500
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: Another GT question...
>Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 15:54:01 -0600
>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <dreamer@brokersys.com>
>Subject: Another GT question...
>
>Are there any GT adventures out?
Not yet. This is purely a business decision -- SJ Games has published
"GURPS ***** Adventures" several times in the past, and they don't sell
very well. This is probably due to the "generic" in the name: producing a
book full of adventures that are interesting, generic, and useful at the
same time is hard. They seem to have concluded that GURPS Traveller has
long enough legs of its own to justify some specific campaign books,
however; check out the SJ Games wishlist:
http://www.sjgames.com/general/author/capsules.html
There are three types of campaign/adventure book on the list:
GURPS Traveller: Hot Spots -- mercenary tickets
GURPS Traveller: Small Wars -- extended military campaigns
GURPS Traveller: Trade Routes -- merchant campaign settings
[Now all they need are authors with decent proposals and *lots* of time on
their hands...]
I recommend, by the bye, that you *not* invest in all those core GURPS
books right away. You can run a perfectly good GT campaign using nothing
but the GT basic book and GURPS Lite, a 32-page distillation of GURPS that
is available for free download (.pdf):
http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/lite/
(or you can usually get them just for the asking at your Friendly Local
Gaming Store).
GURPS with all the bells and whistles is overly complicated; start with
GURPS Lite and you will figure out for yourself what books (if any) you
want to buy for added detail. You may miss a reference here or there --
exotic character advantages and such -- but you can either wing it or tell
your players you will only accept what is in GURPS Lite.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 20:16:34 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Another GT question...
Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Brandon Cope writes:
> > This is mainly a result of SJ Games finding that adventures for GURPS sell
> > poorly. Mind you, I think this is more due to the format (4 adventures per 128 page book, rather than, say, 10 12-page adventures or 12 10-page adventures), but others may disagree.
>
> There's a reason that almost _no-one_ makes adventures any more. They just
> don't make much money. D&D is about the only exception, and I wouldn't be
> too surprised if D&D adventures don't make much money either.
Dom, has BITS made any money on adventures?
Eris
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 20:39:08 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
"David P. Summers" wrote:
> > > I dont understand why Drop Tanks are so expensive.
> > > I've thought of using collapsable tanks. That shouldnt
> > > be all that expensive, and they'd fold up after
> > > they're drained, back into the ship. Anyone else think
> > > of this?
> >I had the same idea. Then I thought about how long a period of time you have
> >betwween draining the tanks and jumping. I limit the amount of time the jump
> >capacitors can be fully charged to one turn. If you use something like MAYDAY,
> >1000 second turns, then you nave just over 16 minutes to jump after draining
> >the tanks. Liquid hydrogen is cold, it makes the tank linings
> >brittle. I just
> >assumed that it takes longer than one turn to warm up the tanks and collapse
> >them inside of the jump grid.
>
> This is an engineering problem that is soluble at our current
> TL. Heating the tank isn't a problem and, if you design it right,
> you can empty the out portions and begin collapsing before the
> tank is even empty. I don't really see it as a problem at GTL 10+.
>
> Though it isn't clear why you have to transfer hydrogen or why
> you can just burn it and send over the energy....
David, I'm reasonable certain that you also know why some people say you
have to transfer the hydrogen and can't just burn it and send over the
energy, even if you don't agree with that pov.
You know very well that this is the same old "do you use it before or
use it during" issue that has been, oh so, hotly debated time after time
after time! <g>
Let me summarize...there are two basic camps.
Camp 1: Jump fuel is completely (or almost completely) consumed prior
to jump.
Sub camp 1.A: The fuel is burned in a special fusion engine that
charges special capacitors and the energy stored there is used to "tear
open a hole into jump space."
Sub camp 1.B: The fuel is used to "tear open a hole into jump space" in
some other way.
This camp has difficulty with drop tanks NOT working. Just drain the
tanks into the reactor/hole tearer, drop them off and jump.
Camp 2: Jump fuel is NOT completely( or almost completely consumed
prior to jump, but is used throughout the entire time the ship is in
jump space.
Sub camp 2.A: Some of the fuel is burned/used at the beginning to tear
open a hole, ala Camp 1, but a substantial portion goes into "jump
bubble" inflation and cooling.
Sub camp 2.B: Very little, or none, of the fuel is used at the
beginning of jump. Instead it almost all goes into maintaining the
"bubble" and cooling during the week in jump space.
This camp has trouble seeing how drop tanks would be all that useful.
You need to use the "fuel" throughout the jump, so the tank needs to
travel with you and can only be dropped off after you arrive.
Isn't that a fair description of the jump fuel camps?
IMO, the each GM needs to decide what camp they are in and work from
there. If you are in Camp 1, then you'll have a lot of trouble saying
drop tanks aren't usable if you or your players want them. If you are in
Camp 2, then you'll have trouble saying drop tanks *are* usable.
Eris
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 22:09:35 -0500
From: "Jonathan 'Caraig' McDermott" <caraig@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: silly gravity theory
>Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 00:00:44 -0000
>From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
>Subject: RE: silly gravity theory
>
>Luther Martin wrote:
> > There is one reason why this theory _can't_ be true while
> > relativity _must_ be true: the mathematics of relativity is
> > extremely elegant and beautiful, while this theory doesn't
> > have any mathematical basis.
>
>Er ... which is why we know the total mass of the universe is
>exactly enough to eventually halt the expansion of the universe
>(no more, no less) ... why planets orbit in spherical paths ...
>and these orbits are defined by the five perfect solids (aka:
>Kepler's Cosmic Mystery).
>
>Alternatively, "extremely elegant and beutiful" mathematics is
>just the universe's way of playing a prank on physicists!
>
>Regards PLST
Please correct me if I'm wrong. However, I believe I read somewhere that
the estimated rate of expansion of the universe is actually increasing at
an increasing rate. Very much as if you pumped a steady stream of air into
a balloon and measured it's surface area....
Can anyone tell me if I'm right or wrong?
Cheers
- ---
==============================================================
Jonathan McDermott, CNE/MCSE NOSPAMcaraig@mindspring.com
System Administrator http:\\caraig.home.mindspring.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------
Anubis@SpatialWastes -*- Caraig,Dermott@FurryMUCK
IMTU tc+ tn t4 ge++ -3i+ c+(**) jt pi+ va+ dr+ pr+ zh+() so@
- ------------------------------------------------------------
"Never trust a computer you can't throw out a window."
-Steve Wozniak
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 21:39:41 -0600
From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@mail.elc.net>
Subject: Re: Another GT question...
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
>GURPS with all the bells and whistles is overly complicated;
I have to respectfully disagree. If you ignore the advanced combat system, the system is much easier (after 10 years, I only use the advanced rules for firearms and pretty much use only the basic rules for the rest of combat). You don't need to read the chapter on magic (unless you are running a rather odd Traveller campaign ...) and might be able to pass on the chapter on psionics (to start, anyway).
>start with
>GURPS Lite and you will figure out for yourself what books (if any) you
>want to buy for added detail. You may miss a reference here or there --
>exotic character advantages and such -- but you can either wing it or tell
>your players you will only accept what is in GURPS Lite.
I will agree with this; GURPS Lite is a good starting place.
A generous and sadistic GM,
Brandon Cope
http://www.geocities.com/copeab
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 00:35:16 -0600
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Another GT question...
Christopher Thrash wrote:
> GURPS with all the bells and whistles is overly complicated; start with
> GURPS Lite and you will figure out for yourself what books (if any) you
> want to buy for added detail. You may miss a reference here or there --
> exotic character advantages and such -- but you can either wing it or tell
> your players you will only accept what is in GURPS Lite.
Good advice. Thanks for the comment.
I'm thinking that I'm just going to stay with the stuff I already own. GT
sounds like a lot of work--and time I don't have.
Thanks,
Kenneth.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 22:58:17 -0800
From: "tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Silly Skills
Chortle...
The evil GM rubs his hands as he thinks of what he is going to do with his
current crew
Varger Sensor Operator, Ex Corsair (no one ever really _leaves_ the
corsairs)
Pilot/Navagtor (Ex Impy Navy)
Boom Boom (Ex Marine)
Ex Cop (no real useful skills except Explosive Ord. Disposal and Handgun)
The Fop (A travelling rich playboy. No usefully skills)
They just stole a Scout ship as they high tailed it off non-imperial planet
upon which they wasted 2 of their party and an Imperial Agent in full view
of her Husband, a high ranking dude in the INI.
Now to bring this on topic:
the two dead party members were, um, not very broad in there skill choice.
This was turned into leverage by simply application of letting the party
split up, and putting the two - um - fools into situations were their very
high skills made no diffrence. IE trying to case out an arms dealers house.
I let charactors build the biggest combat monsters that they can. and they
tend to regret it. A single bullet (or FGMP-12/15) can still kill them. And
in situtations where their skills have no use (a reception, say) it is fun
to watch them make asses out of there selves.
Usally, after the first time, people tend to build 'realistic' charactors -
that have not put all their points into Health, Strenght, Dex, Brawling and
Handgun.
- -----Original Message-----
The biggest change is the ability to choose everything about your
character. This enables you to do a better job of fitting any given
character concept. The danger in practice is that players can choose
to concentrate unrealistically heavily in skills and abilities that
are useful in dangerous situations, and some tend to do so to a bit of
an extreme.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 23:01:54 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: silly gravity theory
In mail you write:
> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> Why this gives them infinite reason requires getting into "virtual
>> particles" which means getting into the uncertainty principle and other
>> things.
>
> As far as I have seen, virtual particles are just an artifact of an
> *approximation* technique (purturbation theory) which is used to solve
> certain QM problems. The actual solution is exact rather than approximate,
> and obeys the QM stuff, not the approximation. This seems to but the actual
> existence of them in a somewhat suspicious light. If anyone can point me to
> a reference which makes their basis rigorous (i.e. mathematical) I would
> love to see it.
Well, they are a natural outcome of the uncertainty principle. The
"normal" version says that the product of the uncertainty in position
and the uncertainty in momention equals Planck's constant.
h = p * l
But you can *also* write it as:
h = E * t
Where the energy of a system has an uncertainty proprotional to the
time you take for the measurement. That is, the shorter the time period
you use for the measurement, the less certain the energy of the system
is.
So virtual particles are particles that exist by virtue of this
uncertainty. They "borrow" the energy and can exist for the period
determined by the above formula (t=h/E)
As such, they are *inherently* undetectable, except by their effects.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 20:20:16 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Silly Skills
On Mon, Dec 11, 2000 at 10:58:17PM -0800, tsykoduk wrote:
> I let charactors build the biggest combat monsters that they
> can. and they tend to regret it. A single bullet (or FGMP-12/15) can
> still kill them. And in situtations where their skills have no use
> (a reception, say) it is fun to watch them make asses out of there
> selves.
I prefer to ask the players what sort of game they'd like. Then I see
if I can fit that in with what I like. If they're building combat
monsters, it's a pretty good bet that they want lots of combat. I'd
certainly check with them before assuming they want to play a game in
which their characters get forced into situations for which their
skills are woefully inedequate.
Generally I don't get much pleasure out of watching characters make
asses of themselves. It's usually a sign that I (or the players) have
stuffed up somewhere.
If players make character choices I don't like then I tell them, not
mess with their characters after the game starts. It wastes a lot
less of my time and the players'. I'd certainly hate to spend time
making a character, then have the GM determine events that concentrate
on all my character's weak points. If I saw it happening to someone
else, I'd certainly lower my opinion of the GM. Certainly my trust in
their impartiality would be greatly diminished.
> Usally, after the first time, people tend to build 'realistic'
> charactors - that have not put all their points into Health,
> Strenght, Dex, Brawling and Handgun.
No, they make characters optimised for avoidance of having the GM pick
on them. Whether that results in "realistic" characters or not is a
matter open for vigorous debate. I'd have to say that concentrating
much of your training into a few skills and supporting abilities is
completely realistic, particularly in systems as coarse-grained as
most Traveller incarnations.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 10:47:25 +0000
From: Rob Myers <robm@h2g2.com>
Subject: Re: silly gravity theory
Confusing the mathematical "working out" with actual processes involved
in sub-atomic interactions leads to scientists sounding very silly very
quickly. This is just one of a number of problems with the language and
cosmology of Quantum Mechanics, if not its results.
My other favourites are the misleading anthropomorphism inherent in the
idea of something being "observed" and, as the other side of this coin,
the fact that people who put so much faith in the idea of things being
(incompletely) knowable only when observed haven't realized that since
sub-subatomic particles are just arbitarily observed concentrations of
energy you'll find the ones you look for.
- - Rob.
Luther Martin wrote:
>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
> > Why this gives them infinite reason requires getting into "virtual
> > particles" which means getting into the uncertainty principle and other
> > things.
>
> As far as I have seen, virtual particles are just an artifact of an
> *approximation* technique (purturbation theory) which is used to solve
> certain QM problems. The actual solution is exact rather than approximate,
> and obeys the QM stuff, not the approximation. This seems to but the actual
> existence of them in a somewhat suspicious light. If anyone can point me to
> a reference which makes their basis rigorous (i.e. mathematical) I would
> love to see it.
- --
Rob Myers - http://www.robmyers.org/ H2G2 - http://www.h2g2.com/
MacOS wonderfulness for The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy Game.
"Smash Global Capitalism! Spend less money!"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 02:48:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Silly adventure idea
For PC-owned starships, you can point out that Imperial forces and
client states can readily identify starships via those pesky
transponders, and that ship will quickly become wanted on every world
Imperial agents serve (which is just about every world).
Unless the characters have a certified-and-filed mercenary contract
stating the starship is a bona-fide weapons platform which will be used
to accomplish this mission, the characters should be warned about the
legality and consequences of their actions. Of course, the enemy can,
through contacts and agents in place, discover the nature of any
mercenary contract targeting them, which is also something the players
should be made aware of - sort of a "damned if you do, damned if you
don't" situation. Of course, this is what makes the game all the more
fun. Someone mentioned "The Dogs of War" earlier. Two-thirds of that
novel were wrapped up in the preparations for the mission, including
working through all the legal niceties, setting up dummy corporations,
procuring the equipment, et al - which really was the most interesting
part of the story.
I got out of playing D&D in high school because of all the munchkinism
in that game (players traipsing around, laying waste to everything
around them without regard to the ramifications).
- --- Peter Scarrott <peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> -----Original message----------
> Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 07:25:17 -0800
> From: "tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@bigfoot.com>
>
> The PC's owned the trader. ;)
>
> Sokay, I am good on my feet. The TL-8 COACC forces did not really
> like that,
> so they started lobbing missiles at the trader - it ran and the guys
> on the
> ground ended up in a sticky situation..
>
> That turned into a really fun on ;)
> ------end original--------
> As a GM I always love it when PC's put there only way out in harms
> way. If
> you have one form of getaway vehicle NEVER put it at risk unless you
> have
> absolutely NO choice. Ideally the opposition should never know what
> your
> getaway transport is until you leave, and preferably not then. In
> addition
> I'm sure some Imperial agency is going to be interested in a group
> prepared
> to use Starship weaponry vs. ground installations, and unless the
> players
> destroy the whole planet someone is going to be able to ID them after
> the
> event. Big and Flashy is very nice but it attracts all sorts of BAD
> attention.
>
> Peter
> http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk (Trav & AD&D)
> peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
>
> IMTU: tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as-
> so zh+
> vi-
> And life is harsh and rarely fair.
>
> Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors -
> and
> miss.
> Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love (By Robert.Heinlan)
>
=====
Gerry Harris
**********************************************************************************************
Æther Traveller — http://www.aethertraveller.com
Soldier's Companion — http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html
**********************************************************************************************
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war" — Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1
**********************************************************************************************
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 23:08:01 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: silly gravity theory
In mail you write:
> Please correct me if I'm wrong. However, I believe I read somewhere that
> the estimated rate of expansion of the universe is actually increasing at
> an increasing rate. Very much as if you pumped a steady stream of air into
> a balloon and measured it's surface area....
Nope. Or at least "not exactly".
John Cramer's column in the current issue of Analog touches on this.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 23:19:00 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
In mail you write:
> This is an engineering problem that is soluble at our current
> TL. Heating the tank isn't a problem and, if you design it right,
> you can empty the out portions and begin collapsing before the
> tank is even empty. I don't really see it as a problem at GTL 10+.
LH2 temps are *cold*. Even now we have to be careful about how we fill
tanks.
> Though it isn't clear why you have to transfer hydrogen or why
> you can just burn it and send over the energy....
Huh? You've lost me here.
Rwemember, the hydrogen goes to the *jump drive*. What you just said is
rather like "Gee, why do I have to get the fuel from these drop tanks
on the plane to the main tanks or to the engines?"
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 23:22:20 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
In mail you write:
> Let me summarize...there are two basic camps.
>
> Camp 1: Jump fuel is completely (or almost completely) consumed prior
> to jump.
>
> Sub camp 1.A: The fuel is burned in a special fusion engine that
> charges special capacitors and the energy stored there is used to "tear
> open a hole into jump space."
>
> Sub camp 1.B: The fuel is used to "tear open a hole into jump space" in
> some other way.
>
> This camp has difficulty with drop tanks NOT working. Just drain the
> tanks into the reactor/hole tearer, drop them off and jump.
>
>
>
> Camp 2: Jump fuel is NOT completely( or almost completely consumed
> prior to jump, but is used throughout the entire time the ship is in
> jump space.
>
> Sub camp 2.A: Some of the fuel is burned/used at the beginning to tear
> open a hole, ala Camp 1, but a substantial portion goes into "jump
> bubble" inflation and cooling.
>
> Sub camp 2.B: Very little, or none, of the fuel is used at the
> beginning of jump. Instead it almost all goes into maintaining the
> "bubble" and cooling during the week in jump space.
>
> This camp has trouble seeing how drop tanks would be all that useful.
> You need to use the "fuel" throughout the jump, so the tank needs to
> travel with you and can only be dropped off after you arrive.
>
>
> Isn't that a fair description of the jump fuel camps?
Only problem is that drop tanks were *explicitly* described as being
dropped *before* jump when they were added to the rules. Which kills
the second camp dead.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 21:32:32 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Spacefaring Powers (was: "The Solomani Rim...")
> From: Rob Myers
> From: "John P. Raynor"
> > Interesting. I vaguely recall that Australia recently had a plebicite
> > regarding whether or not to become a republic (and decided not to take
> > that particularly plunge),
>
> I'm told that the republic offered to them was designed to be
> unacceptable so the monarchists could say "told you so!" when no-one
> voted for it.
That's how I read it, anyway. The Prime Minister is a monarchist, and the
"official" republicans were idiots who managed to alienate lots of their
potential supporters.
The thing is that the historical processes that are driving Australia away
from the UK and the monarchy are still in process, so it is likely that
support for a republic will continue to grow over time.
> > but I must confess to being unaware of the
> > general state of the relationships between Australia, New Zealand, and
> > the United Kingdom. Do the Australians basically think of themselves
> > as "another pacific-rim nation," connected to the United Kingdom by
> > language and culture, but not politico-economic interest?
>
> I think they view themselves as God's Chosen People and the British as
> overbearing, colonial dinosaurs, but I could be being too harsh. :-)
No. The British are just really bad at Cricket and Rugby League, and
therefore an inferior race, far below those that recognise Australian
superiority by not playing the sacred games. : )
How people view themselves varies, of course. Still, it's probably fair to
note that there's a whole bunch more US shows on our TV sets than there are
British, that Japan is our biggest trading partner (followed by the US),
that a gradually increasing proportion of Australians have no British
ancestry, that even those that do have usually never been to the UK and
have no particular desire to do so, ...
Add in the blindingly obvious fact that we are on the opposite side of the
world from Britain and you have a recipe for Australia (and NZ too, BTW)
moving "away" from the UK.
But still, we play Cricket and Rugby League (apart from the damn
southerners who play "aerial ping-pong"), so there will be a connection
there. Our political-economic interests have already diverged - the social
and cultural ties will weaken but not entirely break.
My guess for a future history would be an Australian Republic more tied in
with the Pacific Rim, with fairly loose ties with the UK - apart from
sport! This is hardly a radical suggestion. (Oh, and the Australian
republic would still be called the Commonwealth of Australia, and the
President would be a rubber stamp for Parliament and the Prime Minister
under most circumstances. So there.)
Oh, and our highways get taken over by motorbike gangs and become really
dangerous, forcing the New South Wales government to form a "Main Force
Patrol", the most famous officer of which is named Max.
Oh, and Rugby League will re-unite with Rugby Union ("Rugby"), giving a
game which will be a major sport in both France and Australia. (Distant
sounds of bone-crunching collisions.) : )
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 13:05:16 +0000
From: Rob Myers <robm@h2g2.com>
Subject: Re: Spacefaring Powers (was: "The Solomani Rim...")
Alan Bradley wrote:
>
> No. The British are just really bad at Cricket and Rugby League, and
> therefore an inferior race, far below those that recognise Australian
> superiority by not playing the sacred games. : )
Yeah, Pakistan are sitting there wondering what happened at the moment
I'd imagine.
> How people view themselves varies, of course. Still, it's probably fair to
> note that there's a whole bunch more US shows on our TV sets than there are
> British,
Well, it's the same in the UK.
> Add in the blindingly obvious fact that we are on the opposite side of the
> world from Britain and you have a recipe for Australia (and NZ too, BTW)
> moving "away" from the UK.
Given it's on the other side of the planet, how could it get any
further?
This feels like an ObTrav, but I can't quite form it.
- - Rob (all :-) ).
- --
Rob Myers - http://www.robmyers.org/ H2G2 - http://www.h2g2.com/
MacOS wonderfulness for The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy Game.
"Smash Global Capitalism! Spend less money!"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 06:32:33 -0800
From: "tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@bigfoot.com>
Subject: RE: Silly Skills
- -----Original Message-----
I prefer to ask the players what sort of game they'd like. Then I see
if I can fit that in with what I like. If they're building combat
monsters, it's a pretty good bet that they want lots of combat. I'd
certainly check with them before assuming they want to play a game in
which their characters get forced into situations for which their
skills are woefully inedequate.
- ---
I tend to run 'action movie' games - with a smattering of all sorts of
stuff. you know - defuse the bomb, shoot the bad guys, figgure out where the
hidden tresure is, interact with the nobles...
Usally everyone has somthing to do (yes even the combat mosters).
See below for a more complete disertation on what kind of charactor annoys
this GM. :)
- ---
> Usally, after the first time, people tend to build 'realistic'
> charactors - that have not put all their points into Health,
> Strenght, Dex, Brawling and Handgun.
No, they make characters optimised for avoidance of having the GM pick
on them. Whether that results in "realistic" characters or not is a
matter open for vigorous debate. I'd have to say that concentrating
much of your training into a few skills and supporting abilities is
completely realistic, particularly in systems as coarse-grained as
most Traveller incarnations.
- ---
Umm.. I was not being facitous there - I had a person build a GURPS
charactor with only 1 advantage (CBT reflexes) and those skills. That was
all. These are the people that I have a hard time with. How is he going to
survive? What kind of job is he going to get? What if he falls into a pool?
(Note: While I have run every form of Traveller except the cursed T4, I tend
to use GURPS now... What can I say,. I like the system! - also the other
systems did change this discussion much.. they tended to have only the
skills that the charactor was accually _good_ at on the sheet. I tended to
use EDU for all the piddly stuff)
I agree that most people should be really good at one thing and moderate a a
bunch of others - but you have to have those others there to survive in day
to day life (well, at least it makes it easier). How many times have I seen
charactors in modern settings that do not know how to drive? Out of all of
the people that I have known, there have been 2 that do not know how to
drive (and admit it - many that had very low skill but were very confident).
When building GT charactors, I like to take one area, and make the charactor
rather good in that area, and then get a smattering of skills across the
board (drive included <pththht>). IMHO this is very realistic - if I look at
my self, I have a ton of 1/2 point skills and a few rather higher then
that.. my 1/2 point skills range from Useless Trival Knowledge, Physics,
History, Mathmatics, Kendo, Fencing (right now - working on that one),
Broadsword, Astronomy,etc etc.
With the narrow, cheap skills that GT has - I would rather see charactors
developed with a bunch of 1/2 skills that they are no good at, some higher
ones (hobbys and what have you) and a few really high ones (career skills).
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3379
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3380
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, December 12 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3380
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
RE: Why Math Rules (was Re: silly gravity theory)
RE: Why Math Rules (was Re: silly gravity theory)
System detailing
RE: Why Math Rules (was Re: silly gravity theory)
Re: Silly Skills
RE: Why Math Rules (was Re: silly gravity theory)
RE: silly gravity theory
Re: Silly Skills
Re: Why Math Rules (was Re: silly gravity theory)
Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link
RE: Why Math Rules (was Re: silly gravity theory)
Re: Another GT question...
Re: Another GT question...
Re: Another GT question...
Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
Gone blind - need help on CT task
Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link
Re: System detailing
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 16:07:40 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Why Math Rules (was Re: silly gravity theory)
Luther Martin wrote:
> > Alternatively, "extremely elegant and beutiful" mathematics is
> > just the universe's way of playing a prank on physicists!
>
> Even Einstein himself said something like "Physicists answer only to
> mathematicians and mathematicians answer only to God."
About a month ago there was a science documentary on TV called
"Eienstein's Greatest Mistake" which was about the Lambda factor
in one of Eienstein's equations. Apparently he originally wrote
it with a factor (called Lambda) which he later concluded was
superfluous. Without the Lambda the equation was much more
elegant and Eienstein called it his greatest mistake. But new
research is suggesting that Lambda should be "back in the mix"
after all!
And until recently many astronomers were busy looking for the
universe's missing mass ... 'cos they just knew that the only
elegant solution was for it to be there somewhere. (Okay,
although futile the exercise was not completely fruitless.)
I suppose it comes down to whether you believe mathematics is an
inherant attribute of reality or a humn construction. My belief
is that physics (and mathematics) are 'maps' of reality ... and
"the map is not the territory". Thus physics will never be able
to *entirely and accurately* describe the universe. And when I
hear "relativity _must_ be true: the mathematics of relativity is
extremely elegant and beautiful" I view such statements with
extreme caution. And the *human desire* for a neat, ordily, and
symmetrical solution can blind you to the possibilities that
sometimes the universe isn't those things.
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:26:22 -0500 (EST)
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
Subject: RE: Why Math Rules (was Re: silly gravity theory)
On Tue, 12 Dec 2000, Trevor, Peter wrote:
> I suppose it comes down to whether you believe mathematics is an
> inherant attribute of reality or a humn construction. My belief
> is that physics (and mathematics) are 'maps' of reality ... and
> "the map is not the territory". Thus physics will never be able
> to *entirely and accurately* describe the universe. And when I
> hear "relativity _must_ be true: the mathematics of relativity is
> extremely elegant and beautiful" I view such statements with
> extreme caution. And the *human desire* for a neat, ordily, and
> symmetrical solution can blind you to the possibilities that
> sometimes the universe isn't those things.
Goodness knows that simplicity, elegant mechanisms, and common sense
seem to have very little to do with molecular biology. I see no
reason why the basic physical nature of the universe shouldn't be
filled with bizarre exceptions to generally valid rules, strange
Rococco twists and flourishes, and rats' nests of endlessly
proliferating formulae. Perhaps the physicists of the distant
future may look back upon our era and say "What hubris...they
actually thought they could understand it all..."
- J. Raynor
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 10:54:53 -0600
From: Loren Wiseman <lkw@io.com>
Subject: System detailing
Gentles,
I need someone who can step me through system creation -- I need to add
some chrome to a system over and above "2 belts and 4 gas giants . . ."
Being as how there's an icestorm headed for Austin, and they don't know
from road salt down here, I'm cuting for home early today -- please reply
to both lkw@io.com and gdwgames@aol.com (my home e-mail)
Loren Wiseman
Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society http://jtas.sjgames.com/
SJ Games
lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
(512) 447-7866 VOX
(512) 447-1144 FAX
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 09:11:12 -0800
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: RE: Why Math Rules (was Re: silly gravity theory)
Peter Trevor wrote:
> I suppose it comes down to whether you believe mathematics is an
> inherant attribute of reality or a humn construction. My belief
> is that physics (and mathematics) are 'maps' of reality ... and
> "the map is not the territory". Thus physics will never be able
> to *entirely and accurately* describe the universe. And when I
> hear "relativity _must_ be true: the mathematics of relativity is
> extremely elegant and beautiful" I view such statements with
> extreme caution. And the *human desire* for a neat, ordily, and
> symmetrical solution can blind you to the possibilities that
> sometimes the universe isn't those things.
My personal belief is that mathematics is indeed the absolute truth. This is
a bit tricky, since all that you prove in mathematics follows from your
initial axioms. So if you pick your axioms correctly your results will model
reality, but if you don't pick them correctly then all bets are off. This is
why the mathematician Paul Halmos once said that "Applied mathematics is bad
mathematics." And when you start giving physical interpretation to
mathematical results, you are no longer doing mathematics, but rather have
strayed into physics or engineering. This is not necessarily bad, but you
have left the realm of the absolute for the messy real world.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 12:26:10 -0500
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Silly Skills
Heh. Reminds me of the character this one player ran, all combat, no brains.
he was quickly nicknamed "Kevlar" as he was essentially a mobile suit for
the entire party, sucking up damage while they fried the badguys from cover.
Really funny to watch and run.
Sam
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 17:33:46 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Why Math Rules (was Re: silly gravity theory)
Luthur Martin wrote:
> My personal belief is that mathematics is indeed the absolute
> truth. This is a bit tricky, since all that you prove in
> mathematics follows from your initial axioms. So if you pick
> your axioms correctly your results will model reality, but if
> you don't pick them correctly then all bets are off. This is
> why the mathematician Paul Halmos once said that "Applied
> mathematics is bad mathematics." And when you start giving
> physical interpretation to mathematical results, you are no
> longer doing mathematics, but rather have strayed into physics
> or engineering. This is not necessarily bad, but you have left
> the realm of the absolute for the messy real world.
I'm not sure I'm reading this right: I have no problem believing
that a system of logic (eg. Mathematics) can be internally
consistant ... but if *applied* mathematics is 'bad' mathematics
then this suggests that mathematics does *not* truly reflect
reality and is thus a human construct rather than an inherant
property of reality.
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 09:17:23 -0800
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: RE: silly gravity theory
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> > As far as I have seen, virtual particles are just an artifact of an
> > *approximation* technique (purturbation theory) which is used to solve
> > certain QM problems. The actual solution is exact rather than
> approximate,
> > and obeys the QM stuff, not the approximation. This seems to
> but the actual
> > existence of them in a somewhat suspicious light. If anyone can
> point me to
> > a reference which makes their basis rigorous (i.e. mathematical) I would
> > love to see it.
>
> Well, they are a natural outcome of the uncertainty principle. The
> "normal" version says that the product of the uncertainty in position
> and the uncertainty in momention equals Planck's constant.
It's much like multiple square roots. If you have a quadratic equation for
something, you get two solutions. This does not mean that both are
physically relevant. When you do physics you repeatedly throw away extra
soultion because they are "non-physical." So just because something can
exist, because it satisfies some set of equations, doesn't mean that it
does.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 09:43:49 -0800
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: Silly Skills
> -----Original Message-----
> I prefer to ask the players what sort of game they'd like. Then I see
> if I can fit that in with what I like. If they're building combat
> monsters, it's a pretty good bet that they want lots of combat. I'd
> certainly check with them before assuming they want to play a game in
> which their characters get forced into situations for which their
> skills are woefully inedequate.
> ---
>
> I tend to run 'action movie' games - with a smattering of all sorts of
> stuff. you know - defuse the bomb, shoot the bad guys, figgure out where
the
> hidden tresure is, interact with the nobles...
>
Same here. If the players are good at role playing, they'll make a
character fit (or not) the adventure. I tend to try to restrict the number
of characters a player has in their 'arsenal' so that those characters get
played a lot and develop over time. Sometimes its fun to watch (and play)
the tough merc in the subtle spycraft type game. Think of Han Solo in the
deathstar cellblock.
Sure, my games are 'cinematic' (anyone who's read the online game notes
knows that). But I add some realism too. Sometimes characters get thrust
into situations for which they have no training or experience and just have
to make do.
Tod
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 09:54:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Why Math Rules (was Re: silly gravity theory)
Luther Martin writes:
> My personal belief is that mathematics is indeed the absolute truth.
Depending on what you mean by truth. Mathematics is axiomatic -- it is true
by definition. It is not, however, completely clear whether this is relevant,
or whether it has any relation with reality (the evidence for math applying to
reality is reasonably good, but can't be proven without additional axioms
which relate to the physical world)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 10:09:06 -0800
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com>
Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C06466.9DE66DE0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
>From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
>Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
>
>At 5:52 PM -0800 12/10/00, Bernie McGeehan wrote:
>> > >> Hehehehe. Yes, there are in CT. They are called
>> > 'Jump Tanks' and work like
>> > >> stages on a 'modern' rocket - IE you ditch the
>> > fuel tanks after they are
>> > >> used up. An expensive way to go, but it will
>> > work.
>>
>>I dont understand why Drop Tanks are so expensive.
>>I've thought of using collapsable tanks. That shouldnt
>>be all that expensive, and they'd fold up after
>>they're drained, back into the ship. Anyone else think
>>of this?
>
>It isn't clear at all why drop tanks should be so expensive
>or why you can't have tanks that collapse back into the
>ship. That is one issue with them.
OK, what about this idea? Assume a ship of volume 'x'; to make a
jump, a ship needs 'y' dtons of fuel. Now what if those engines, in order
to make the same jump but with a ship displacing 'x+y', requires 'z' dtons
of fuel. Now, make the ship with internal tankage of 'z', and with some
semi-rigid, telescoping structure that holds 'x' dtons of fuel (imagine
large, teardrop-shaped swellings that extend along the spine of the ship).
Now, the ship makes the first jump using only the internal fuel. Once at
it's first destination, tt then transfers the fuel from the extendable (not
'expendable') tanks, collapses them, and has enough fuel to make the return
trip. This might be very useful for exploratory vessels or frontier
merchants.
Rod Basler, COFIT
- ---------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.
- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C06466.9DE66DE0
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<TITLE>Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link </TITLE>
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&gt;From: &quot;David P. =
Summers&quot; &lt;summers@alum.mit.edu&gt;
&gt;Subject: Re: GT: Reft =
sector Xboat-link (long).
&gt;
&gt;At 5:52 PM -0800 12/10/00, =
Bernie McGeehan wrote:
&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &gt;&gt; =
Hehehehe. Yes, there are in CT. They are called
&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &gt; 'Jump =
Tanks' and work like
&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &gt;&gt; =
stages on a 'modern' rocket - IE you ditch the
&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &gt; fuel tanks =
after they are
&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &gt;&gt; =
used up. An expensive way to go, but it will
&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &gt; =
work.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;I dont understand why =
Drop Tanks are so expensive.
&gt;&gt;I've thought of using =
collapsable tanks. That shouldnt
&gt;&gt;be all that expensive, =
and they'd fold up after
&gt;&gt;they're drained, back =
into the ship. Anyone else think
&gt;&gt;of this?
&gt;
&gt;It isn't clear at all why =
drop tanks should be so expensive
&gt;or why you can't have tanks =
that collapse back into the
&gt;ship.&nbsp; That is one =
issue with them.

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; FACE=3D"Courier New">OK, what about this idea?&nbsp; Assume a ship of =
volume 'x';&nbsp; to make a jump, a ship needs 'y' dtons of fuel.&nbsp; =
Now what if those engines, in order to make the same jump but with a =
ship displacing 'x+y', requires 'z' dtons of fuel.&nbsp; Now, make the =
ship with internal tankage of 'z', and with some semi-rigid, =
telescoping structure that holds 'x' dtons of fuel (imagine large, =
teardrop-shaped swellings that extend along the spine of the =
ship).&nbsp; Now, the ship makes the first jump using only the internal =
fuel.&nbsp; Once at it's first destination, tt then transfers the fuel =
from the extendable (not 'expendable') tanks, collapses them, and has =
enough fuel to make the return trip.&nbsp; This might be very useful =
for exploratory vessels or frontier merchants.

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; FACE=3D"Courier New">Rod Basler, COFIT
New">---------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer - They just tell me =
to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.

- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C06466.9DE66DE0--
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 09:48:34 -0800
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: RE: Why Math Rules (was Re: silly gravity theory)
Peter Trevor wrote:
> > My personal belief is that mathematics is indeed the absolute
> > truth. This is a bit tricky, since all that you prove in
> > mathematics follows from your initial axioms. So if you pick
> > your axioms correctly your results will model reality, but if
> > you don't pick them correctly then all bets are off. This is
> > why the mathematician Paul Halmos once said that "Applied
> > mathematics is bad mathematics." And when you start giving
> > physical interpretation to mathematical results, you are no
> > longer doing mathematics, but rather have strayed into physics
> > or engineering. This is not necessarily bad, but you have left
> > the realm of the absolute for the messy real world.
>
> I'm not sure I'm reading this right: I have no problem believing
> that a system of logic (eg. Mathematics) can be internally
> consistant ... but if *applied* mathematics is 'bad' mathematics
> then this suggests that mathematics does *not* truly reflect
> reality and is thus a human construct rather than an inherant
> property of reality.
This is indeed a bit of a problem. Since the axioms from which all of your
math follow were typically chosen based on people's imperfect understanding
of the world, the results were often flawed. For example, the axioms needed
to end up with either quantum mechanics or relativity are outside the
experience of most people. So when people based their logical system on an
incorrect set of axioms they ended up with incorrect results. I would say
that there indeed is a mathematical system which describes reality
perfectly, but that we just haven't been able to figure out what it is yet.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 18:54:30 +0000
From: Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Another GT question...
At 21:13 -0500 11/12/00, Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> wrote:
>There's a reason that almost _no-one_ makes adventures any more. They just
>don't make much money. D&D is about the only exception, and I wouldn't be
>too surprised if D&D adventures don't make much money either.
Scanning my shelves the following companies have scenarios out -
Chaosium (CoC, Elric).
Green Knight (Pendragon)
AEG (7th Sea, Lot5R)
Hogshead (WHFRP, SLA Industries)
FarFuture ;-)
BITS ;-)
Issaries are about to release a scenario book for Hero Wars (_Sartar Rising_)
Dom
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 18:55:17 +0000
From: Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Another GT question...
At 21:13 -0500 11/12/00, JFZeigler@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 12/11/00 4:56:16 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>dreamer@brokersys.com writes:
>
> > Are there any GT adventures out? If you start playing GT, do you have
> > to put a lot of time in as a GM, making up a scenario, or are there
> > published adventures, using GT rules, that you can buy?
<snip>
>On the other hand, SJG has long since given up on producing books
>of adventures for GURPS, because they have historically sold badly.
>
>Gripping hand, the on-line JTAS has published many adventure
>scenarios, and this looks like the best place to get adventure ideas
>for the foreseeable future. It's relatively cheap, too.
Or you could buy 'Spacedogs', 'The Khiidkar Incident' or the
forthcoming 'Delta 3 is Down' from BITS. They all have GT information
as well as T4.x and are available in the US from SJG (
http://www.warehouse23.com ) and through some of the distributors.
D3ID will be our last adventure for a while - we are going to see how
these sell before we commit to some more. The reason we wrote them
was the ongoing requests from the TML for adventures. At $8 /£5 I
think they're pretty good value. But I'm biased.
Both Freelance Traveller and JTAS have reviews, and the BITS website
http://www.bits.org.uk/ has product details, as does Warehouse 23.
Dom (BITS Webmaster)
- -----
http://www.bits.org.uk/ http://www.core.org.uk/
Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved. Used under permission of licence.
BITS, CORE and the associated logos are trademarks of BITS UK Ltd.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 18:56:27 +0000
From: Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Another GT question...
At 09:33 -0500 12/12/00, Eris Reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net> wrote:
> > > This is mainly a result of SJ Games finding that adventures for
>GURPS sell
> > > poorly. Mind you, I think this is more due to the format (4
>adventures per 128 page book, rather than, say, 10 12-page
>adventures or 12 10-page adventures), but others may disagree.
> >
> > There's a reason that almost _no-one_ makes adventures any more. They just
> > don't make much money. D&D is about the only exception, and I wouldn't be
> > too surprised if D&D adventures don't make much money either.
>
>Dom, has BITS made any money on adventures?
As far as I know, but remember we're an amateur outfit who are really
not aiming to live off this like Steve Jackson Games, Inc are. Bear
in mind that there is a significant financial difference in
committing to a 128 page A4 professionally printed and bound book and
a 56 page A5 produced on high quality laser with a plastic laminate
cover stapled volume.
At the moment the adventures are an experiment - once D3ID is
released we will probably hold for a while to look at sales before we
commit to another adventure. We think that 3 books meeting the TML's
request for adventures is a reasonable toe in the water for us. Bear
in mind that Warehouse 23 sell our stuff, so they will have an idea
on sales numbers of adventures vs supplements.
That said, we may well look at a campaign book instead (something
like _Hard Times_ conceptually - an area of space as background with
linked adventures). We tried to avoid the existing adventures being
one use by putting in GT and T4 ship stats, plus world descriptions
and maps.
I'm curious how many TMLrs have actually bought the books as I notice
that not many of the responses about the adventures mentioned them.
Either they're forgettable or ....
Dom (who would buy SpaceDogs just for Jesse's cover).
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:00:08 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
At 8:39 PM -0600 12/11/00, Eris Reddoch wrote:
> > This is an engineering problem that is soluble at our current
> > TL. Heating the tank isn't a problem and, if you design it right,
> > you can empty the out portions and begin collapsing before the
> > tank is even empty. I don't really see it as a problem at GTL 10+.
> >
> > Though it isn't clear why you have to transfer hydrogen or why
> > you can just burn it and send over the energy....
>
>David, I'm reasonable certain that you also know why some people say you
>have to transfer the hydrogen and can't just burn it and send over the
>energy, even if you don't agree with that pov.
I've heard a few people rationalize it. They generally invoke things
that, IMO, are already soluble today (high current densities, etc)
or have to invoke some new arbitrary restriction on jumping (like
for some reason you can have a whole tank next to you when you start
using fuel but you can't have some sort of power line).
>You know very well that this is the same old "do you use it before or
>use it during" issue that has been, oh so, hotly debated time after time
>after time! <g>
And I was just making the poster aware that the issue exists....
>
>Let me summarize...there are two basic camps.
[snip]
>Isn't that a fair description of the jump fuel camps?
>
>IMO, the each GM needs to decide what camp they are in and work from
>there. If you are in Camp 1, then you'll have a lot of trouble saying
>drop tanks aren't usable if you or your players want them. If you are in
>Camp 2, then you'll have trouble saying drop tanks *are* usable.
>
>Eris
Much of that is another debate. While I certainly
have opinions on that to, the problem that the original poster
was stumbling into is that, if jump occurs in such a way that you
can have drop tanks, then whole new system of providing fuel
for jumping becomes possible. The poster was wonder why
this isn't true and I was telling him it was, in fact, true
(at least from where I stand). In fact, you last paragraph
comes very close to saying the same thing....
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net. My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:09:23 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
At 11:19 PM -0800 12/11/00, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
> > This is an engineering problem that is soluble at our current
> > TL. Heating the tank isn't a problem and, if you design it right,
> > you can empty the out portions and begin collapsing before the
> > tank is even empty. I don't really see it as a problem at GTL 10+.
>
>LH2 temps are *cold*. Even now we have to be careful about how we fill
>tanks.
Yeah, but if you sit down and work everything out, it is quite managable,
even more so in an oxygen free environment. The only real problem
is brittleness and there are a number of ways around that. You
can construct joints that can move w/out lubricants or excessive
wear and tear. However, you can just also just heat the joint.
This will tend to boil a small amount of hydrogen but that will,
in fact, help move the fuel out of the tank into the ship.
You can also make small subtanks that you empty and warm before
you have emptied the whole tank.
This is off the top of my head, thinking about todays material
and capabilities. There are ways of handing this that I haven't
even thought of. Then you add in all those advance materials
they have in Traveller and other technologies, and it doesn't
seem reasonable that it should be a problem (unless you are
running the version of Traveller where most of the base technology
is not better than in the 70's, with huge computers and the
whole bit, but even then it seems doable).
>
> > Though it isn't clear why you have to transfer hydrogen or why
> > you can just burn it and send over the energy....
>
>Huh? You've lost me here.
>
>Rwemember, the hydrogen goes to the *jump drive*. What you just said is
>rather like "Gee, why do I have to get the fuel from these drop tanks
>on the plane to the main tanks or to the engines?"
I'm talking about what happens to the fuel in the dive. If you
really believe in capacitors, then there is no reason they can't
be charged from an external power source.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net. My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 13:13:08 -0600
From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" <sdaniels@playnet.com>
Subject: Gone blind - need help on CT task
In CT materials, I can't find where non-combat
task rolls are defined and described. Is my
memory just fuzzy and Book 1 isn't the place
to see them? Or maybe my eyes have finally
crapped out on me. Actually, it's my patience.
;-)
Can anyone throw this drowning man some
page numbers?
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:12:43 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link
At 10:09 AM -0800 12/12/00, Rodney Basler wrote:
> OK, what about this idea? Assume a ship of volume 'x'; to
>make a jump, a ship needs 'y' dtons of fuel. Now what if those
>engines, in order to make the same jump but with a ship displacing
>'x+y', requires 'z' dtons of fuel. Now, make the ship with internal
>tankage of 'z', and with some semi-rigid, telescoping structure that
>holds 'x' dtons of fuel (imagine large, teardrop-shaped swellings
>that extend along the spine of the ship). Now, the ship makes the
>first jump using only the internal fuel. Once at it's first
>destination, tt then transfers the fuel from the extendable (not
>'expendable') tanks, collapses them, and has enough fuel to make the
>return trip. This might be very useful for exploratory vessels or
>frontier merchants.
What you are describing is sometimes refered to as "demountable"
tanks. You include their volume in the ship's displacement and
but when you drop them the ship's displacement goes down. Those
don't seem to be a problem with anyone.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net. My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 13:32:28 -0600
From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" <sdaniels@playnet.com>
Subject: Re: System detailing
Isn't there a First In spreadsheet floating around?
You do have First In, don't you Loren? :-P
If you've already got Star Type, Mainworld, Belts
and Gas Giants, then here is what I would do:
- Calculate the Orbital Zones and Orbits for the Star.
This math is really easy. Calculator or scratch paper
will do. If you are short an orbit or two for all the belts
and giants you have, noworries; Bode's law doesn't
predict Neptune but there it is.
- Fill the Orbits with what've you've got already.
Mainworld UWP will tell you where it is. If it's
small, it may be the moon of a Gas Giant in the
habitable zone (such as the extra-solar gas giant
reported today by the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1065000/1065910.stm
)
Place the Giants first. They are usually outside the
life zone, according to First In. The FI numbers are
Inner Zone 3-
Life Zone 4-
Middle Zone 7-
Outer Zone 14-
Then the Belts. The FI system confuses me, so just
put 'em where they're sexy.
The rest of the orbits have planets. You need diameters,
and densities for each if you want surface gravity and tidal
forces and . . .
Then the real fun - Moons! And moons and moons and moons.
This is where I usually give up and go wish for the First In
spreadsheet that I can't find.
I think once you've calculated the orbits and filled them,
you're most of the way home. Since the reward to work
ratio decreases from there if you're doing things by hand.
bloo
Loren Wiseman wrote:
> Gentles,
>
> I need someone who can step me through system creation -- I need to add
> some chrome to a system over and above "2 belts and 4 gas giants . . ."
>
> Being as how there's an icestorm headed for Austin, and they don't know
> from road salt down here, I'm cuting for home early today -- please reply
> to both lkw@io.com and gdwgames@aol.com (my home e-mail)
>
> Loren Wiseman
> Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
> Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society http://jtas.sjgames.com/
> SJ Games
> lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
> (512) 447-7866 VOX
> (512) 447-1144 FAX
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3380
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3381
Date: | 12/12/00 6:22:51 PM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, December 12 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3381
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task
Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task
Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task
Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task
Re: Another GT question...
Re: Silly Skills
Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task
Re: Silly Skills
RE: Gone blind - need help on CT task
Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
Re: Silly characters
Free Sci-Fi Games
Re: Spacefaring Powers (was: "The Solomani Rim...")
Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task
Re: Spacefaring Powers (was: "The Solomani Rim...")
GT: Fuel Tanks (was: Reft sector Xboat-link (long))
Re: System detailing
Re: Players as PCs
Re: GT: Fuel Tanks (was: Reft sector Xboat-link (long))
Re: Silly characters
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:34:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
David P. Summers writes:
> >David, I'm reasonable certain that you also know why some people say you
> >have to transfer the hydrogen and can't just burn it and send over the
> >energy, even if you don't agree with that pov.
>
> I've heard a few people rationalize it. They generally invoke things
> that, IMO, are already soluble today (high current densities, etc)
> or have to invoke some new arbitrary restriction on jumping (like
> for some reason you can have a whole tank next to you when you start
> using fuel but you can't have some sort of power line).
Or that it isn't being 'burnt' but is used in some other way in the jump
process.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 13:51:52 -0600
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task
"Steve (Bloo) Daniels" wrote:
>
> In CT materials, I can't find where non-combat
> task rolls are defined and described. Is my
> memory just fuzzy and Book 1 isn't the place
> to see them? Or maybe my eyes have finally
> crapped out on me. Actually, it's my patience.
Well, the descriptions of most non-combat skills (pages 17-22) include
some guidelines for resolving tasks related to those skills.
<<snip>>
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 15:05:11 -0500
From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task
Steve (Bloo) Daniels wrote:
> In CT materials, I can't find where non-combat
>task rolls are defined and described. Is my
>memory just fuzzy and Book 1 isn't the place
>to see them? Or maybe my eyes have finally
>crapped out on me. Actually, it's my patience.
;-)
Actually, in pure CT, they AREN'T. Absolutely everything is done on an ad-hoc basis. However, DGP's CT task system (a revised version of which ended up in MegaTraveller) is reprinted in most issues of the Traveller's Digest, up until issue 9 or 10 (when MT was released). If you want something uniform and organized, that's where to go.
Trent
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 12:15:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task
Most of the time the task rolls are listed under the skill description.
CT didn't have a task system, per se. You just sort of made it up as
you went along.
- --- "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" <sdaniels@playnet.com> wrote:
> In CT materials, I can't find where non-combat
> task rolls are defined and described. Is my
> memory just fuzzy and Book 1 isn't the place
> to see them? Or maybe my eyes have finally
> crapped out on me. Actually, it's my patience.
> ;-)
>
> Can anyone throw this drowning man some
> page numbers?
>
> bloo
>
=====
Gerry Harris
**********************************************************************************************
Æther Traveller — http://www.aethertraveller.com
Soldier's Companion — http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html
**********************************************************************************************
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war" — Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1
**********************************************************************************************
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 14:32:46 -0600
From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" <sdaniels@playnet.com>
Subject: Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task
Aha! I'm not blind.
The things you forget . . .
Maybe I was thinking of the BITS Task Conversion
thing.
Thanks all.
Bloo
Gerry Harris wrote:
> Most of the time the task rolls are listed under the skill description.
> CT didn't have a task system, per se. You just sort of made it up as
> you went along.
>
> --- "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" <sdaniels@playnet.com> wrote:
> > In CT materials, I can't find where non-combat
> > task rolls are defined and described. Is my
> > memory just fuzzy and Book 1 isn't the place
> > to see them? Or maybe my eyes have finally
> > crapped out on me. Actually, it's my patience.
> > ;-)
> >
> > Can anyone throw this drowning man some
> > page numbers?
> >
> > bloo
> >
>
> =====
> Gerry Harris
> **********************************************************************************************
> Æther Traveller — http://www.aethertraveller.com
> Soldier's Companion — http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html
> **********************************************************************************************
> "Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war" — Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1
> **********************************************************************************************
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
> http://shopping.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 21:28 +0000 (GMT)
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
Subject: Re: Another GT question...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20001211211149.00696720@mail.io.com>
Greetings dear hearts.
Hmmm... as someone never short of scenario ideas busy planning on a 2-week
major writing spree this Christmas break (*grin*) I think I'd better look
at that URL :-)
Hugs and kisses,
Mexal.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 09:06:59 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Silly Skills
On Tue, Dec 12, 2000 at 06:32:33AM -0800, tsykoduk wrote:
> Umm.. I was not being facitous there
I never thought you were.
> - I had a person build a GURPS charactor with only 1 advantage (CBT
> reflexes) and those skills. That was all.
It is more of a problem in GURPS, since GURPS skills are much narrower
than most game systems, and minimal competence is easier to model.
However, I still don't see why such a character should be picked on.
> These are the people that I have a hard time with. How is he going
> to survive?
That depends on what sort of game you're running. If you're running
an action-movie cinematic one, it's irrelevant.
> What if he falls into a pool?
He thrashes about for a bit, barely keeping his head above water while
he heads for the edge and climbs out. How many people fall into deep
pools without the GM pushing them, anyway?
> How many times have I seen charactors in modern settings that do not
> know how to drive?
I know a fair few real people who can't drive.
I expect it would be even more common in the Traveller setting. There
are lots of places with only small towns separated by continents. Add
vehicles with routine vehicle operation programs and very few people
need to know how to drive.
> When building GT charactors, I like to take one area, and make the
> charactor rather good in that area, and then get a smattering of
> skills across the board (drive included <pththht>).
Personally I'd ditch driving skill unless the character had a good
reason. I just don't think it would be a common skill in Traveller.
> IMHO this is very realistic - if I look at my self, I have a ton of
> 1/2 point skills and a few rather higher then that..
In GURPS, many of my "better than average but not central" skills
would be at default levels. Certainly not at skill level 12 which is
what 0.5-point would typically give.
I'm working on an overhaul of the GURPS skill cost system since I see
some nasty problems with it. THe task resolution system could do with
improvement, too.
> With the narrow, cheap skills that GT has - I would rather see
> charactors developed with a bunch of 1/2 skills that they are no
> good at,
I've practiced archery. I'm better than I was when completely new to
it. However, if I have 1/2 point in that then I'd have to put about
16-20 points in Mathematics by comparison since I've intensively
studied and practiced maths for much of the last ten years, and
currently doing research in it. That would give me a skill level of
about 25, and I'm not quite that good. Better to assume that I'm
still at default skill level in Bow.
> some higher ones (hobbys and what have you) and a few really high
> ones (career skills).
What sort of skill levels are you talking about here? Trivial skills
at 9-13, hobbies at 12-17, professional skills at 16-25? Lower,
higher?
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 16:23:34 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task
"Steve (Bloo) Daniels" wrote:
>
> Aha! I'm not blind.
Nope, what you've been told about CT is all too true. <g>
> The things you forget . . .
> Maybe I was thinking of the BITS Task Conversion
> thing.
Here what I'm using with CT...
1. Rate a task on the following scale (8+ is the default for combat and
many non-combat tasks). Personally, I'm setting most normal tasks at 7+
(Average), rather than 8+, and not adding in anything from a
Characteristic.
Task Range
Numb Description Description
- ---------------------------------------------
2 Automatic
3 Very Easy
4 Easy Very Short
5 Very Routine
6 Routine Short
7 Average
8 Difficult Medium
9 Very Difficult
10 Formidable Long
11 Very Formidable
12 Staggering Very Long
13 Very Staggering
14 Hopeless Extreme
15 Very Hopeless
16 Impossible
2. If the sum of the appropriate skill, plus or minus any other DM's,
plus 2d6 is greater than or equal to the difficulty level you picked
then you succeeded. If you succeed by 4+ consider it a critical
success, and if you fail by 4- consider it a critical failure.
Seems to work pretty well for me.
Eris
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 17:34:50 -0500
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net>
Subject: Re: Silly Skills
Was written:
>> How many times have I seen characters in modern settings that do not
>> know how to drive?
>
>I know a fair few real people who can't drive.
>
>I expect it would be even more common in the Traveller setting. There
>are lots of places with only small towns separated by continents. Add
>vehicles with routine vehicle operation programs and very few people
>need to know how to drive.
My reply:
Remember that First Generation Star Trek episode with Kirk trying to drive a
1920's era stick shift runabout fliver? Spock looks over at him when the
car lurches and says "I think they had something called a clutch, ...perhaps
it's one of those peddles on the floor." High tech meets low tech and the
gears grind.
Dan
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 17:40:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: RE: Gone blind - need help on CT task
Steve (Bloo) Daniels writes:
>In CT materials, I can't find where non-combat
>task rolls are defined and described. Is my
>memory just fuzzy and Book 1 isn't the place
>to see them? Or maybe my eyes have finally
>crapped out on me. Actually, it's my patience.
>;-)
>Can anyone throw this drowning man some
>page numbers?
If I understand you aright, the task rolls are
in with the descriptions of the skills. Not
all skills include specific rolls, but many
have targets for rolls along with DM's for
particular situations.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 14:38:55 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
In mail you write:
>>Rwemember, the hydrogen goes to the *jump drive*. What you just said is
>>rather like "Gee, why do I have to get the fuel from these drop tanks
>>on the plane to the main tanks or to the engines?"
>
> I'm talking about what happens to the fuel in the dive. If you
> really believe in capacitors, then there is no reason they can't
> be charged from an external power source.
That assuming that they are storing something simple like "electrical
energy". They may be storing something that only a jump drive can
produce/use.
I rather like that approach because it keeps folks from running weapons
and the like off of "capacitors".
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 15:13:46 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
At 11:34 AM -0800 12/12/00, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
> > >David, I'm reasonable certain that you also know why some people say you
> > >have to transfer the hydrogen and can't just burn it and send over the
> > >energy, even if you don't agree with that pov.
> >
> > I've heard a few people rationalize it. They generally invoke things
> > that, IMO, are already soluble today (high current densities, etc)
> > or have to invoke some new arbitrary restriction on jumping (like
> > for some reason you can have a whole tank next to you when you start
> > using fuel but you can't have some sort of power line).
>
>Or that it isn't being 'burnt' but is used in some other way in the jump
>process.
Those tend to be at odds with jump tank though. The explination for
drop tanks is based on capacitors. If you are going
to use the hydrogen as a jump bubble, you need to open you way
to jump space before you use the fuel.
Of course, it not a big deal either way. Not having to carry
your fuel with you is the main thing....
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net. My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 15:18:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
David P. Summers writes:
> Those tend to be at odds with jump tank though. The explination for
> drop tanks is based on capacitors. If you are going
> to use the hydrogen as a jump bubble, you need to open you way
> to jump space before you use the fuel.
Not necessarily. The hydrogen may be what's used to create the opening.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 15:17:17 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
At 2:38 PM -0800 12/12/00, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
> >>Rwemember, the hydrogen goes to the *jump drive*. What you just said is
> >>rather like "Gee, why do I have to get the fuel from these drop tanks
> >>on the plane to the main tanks or to the engines?"
> >
> > I'm talking about what happens to the fuel in the dive. If you
> > really believe in capacitors, then there is no reason they can't
> > be charged from an external power source.
>
>That assuming that they are storing something simple like "electrical
>energy". They may be storing something that only a jump drive can
>produce/use.
>
>I rather like that approach because it keeps folks from running weapons
>and the like off of "capacitors".
I like to assume that, as I've stated someplace, that burn a little
of the fuel and open a rift into jump space that lets you pour the
rest of the energy into (more than you could handle normally).
It also keep you from using weapons off of the capacitors. It
also make drop tanks impossible, but to me that is a feature :-)
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net. My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 10:18:03 +1100
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au>
Subject: Re: Silly characters
The best solution I know of for combat monsters in G:T is to add 'Freight
Handling-12' and 'HazMat-10' to their character sheet, with the explanation
that the unit they were assigned to did a lot of combat resupply (possibly
with a note saying the the namby-pamby Imperial Army uses civilian
contractors for that).
This way, they get something to do when shooting isnt happening, and have a
'real job' to fall back on if peace breaks out.
Ian Whitchurch
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 17:46:15 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Free Sci-Fi Games
I've found a couple of games that I thought you guys might like.
The first one's Outbound. It's like Mechwarrior, but with a Diablo-esque
POV:
ftp://ftp.download.com/pub/win95/games/arcade/outbound10.exe
The second one is Orbit. It's a space combat simulator, but it's got a
realistic twist, even though it uses purely Newtonian physics. When you
unzip it, open up the prefs.txt file and change the "realdistances" argument
to "1" to get realistic distances between planets.
http://genesis.ne.mediaone.net/orbit/orbit.zip
ObTraveller: What if Traveller ships were like the one in Orbit?
- -J. Jensen
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 09:29:24 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Spacefaring Powers (was: "The Solomani Rim...")
> From: Rob Myers
> > Add in the blindingly obvious fact that we are on the opposite side of
the
> > world from Britain and you have a recipe for Australia (and NZ too,
BTW)
> > moving "away" from the UK.
>
> Given it's on the other side of the planet, how could it get any
> further?
> This feels like an ObTrav, but I can't quite form it.
We're going to strap on grav plates! : )
Derrick Jones has correctly pointed out that I was confusing England and
Britain at various points in my post. Oops!
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 09:26:48 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task
> From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels"
> In CT materials, I can't find where non-combat
> task rolls are defined and described. Is my
> memory just fuzzy and Book 1 isn't the place
> to see them? Or maybe my eyes have finally
> crapped out on me. Actually, it's my patience.
> ;-)
>
> Can anyone throw this drowning man some
> page numbers?
It's not your eyes, it's your memory! : )
CT, of course, didn't use tasks! Or rather, they were introduced late in
the day by DGP. The "CT task system", therefore, is to be found in various
DGP publications.
The original CT skill system was based on specific target numbers and
modifiers associated with specific skills. You will find them in the
section with the skill definitions. (I can't give page numbers at the
moment.)
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 16:28:26 -0800
From: "Pronto" <pronto_r031@telus.net>
Subject: Re: Spacefaring Powers (was: "The Solomani Rim...")
> Derrick Jones has correctly pointed out that I was confusing England and
> Britain at various points in my post. Oops!
>
I've always wondered (but never cared enough to ask), what's the difference?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 01:35:01 +0100
From: "Kjeld Johansen" <kjeld@games.dk>
Subject: GT: Fuel Tanks (was: Reft sector Xboat-link (long))
This thread is getting confusing; we need words for what we are talking
about.
Fuel or Jump Tank: Any kind of storage for liquid hydrogen at a spacecraft.
Standard Tank: It can't be detached or used for any thing else and it size
is static. (GT153)
Collapsible Tank: A way to use cargo hold as Fuel Tank. (FI136)
Drop Tank: A Fuel Tank that you don't bring with you into Jump Space but use
the fuel before jumping. Leaving the tank behind. (And whether this is
possible or not... There have been written to much about that all ready.)
Reducible or Extendable Tank: A Fuel Tank there *after* the Jump can change
the Hull size of the ship. But it doesn't leave anything behind.
External, Demountable or Detachable Tank: Like a Drop Tank, but can only be
used *after* the Jump. A spacecraft hull containing nothing but a Standard
Tank mounted in an External Cradle. (FI136)
What I think:
Standard Tank: They should be the best in most cases, since they are the
standard.
Collapsible Tank: I like them. Useful but without being abusive.
Drop Tank: I don't like them. By ruling that most of the fuel is used during
the jump, then they can't be used.
Reducible Tank: I'm not sure any longer. They make it a lot cheaper to cross
a large rift. And why don't all fuel skimmers use this. They would use less
space inside the carrier and be able to transport more fuel.
External Tank: They make it easier to cross a large rift, but most likely
more expensive. They are rarely useful, but then the External Cradle can be
used for some thing else. I'll use these, and see no way of stopping their
use.
Kjeld.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 11:39:12 +1100
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: System detailing
Dear Folks -
Loren wrote:
>I need someone who can step me through system creation -- I need to add
>some chrome to a system over and above "2 belts and 4 gas giants . . ."
Step 1: Download a copy of "Heaven and Earth" (beta version 1.6 from
memory)
Step 2: Install and run "Heaven and Earth".
Step 3: Select which version of the rules you want to use, plug in the
UPP and set the thing to generate the system.
Step 4: Modify the generated details until you are satisfied with the
result.
;-)
OK, more seriously, are you having problems because:
a. you don't have one or more of the following available in Austin:
_Book 8: Scouts_/the first reprints
_Grand Survey_
_World Builders Guide_
_First In_
etc; OR
b. you do have these available but are having problems with the rules;
OR
c. you do understand the rules but don't have a lot of time to play
around with them and want some expert help from a world-builder guru who
could knock up the Rhylanor system in 5 minutes with a pencil and the back
of an envelope while blind-folded; OR
d. two or more of the above?
;-)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 11:41:03 +1100
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Players as PCs
Dear Folks -
Doug wrote:
>>DD-214?
>
>The form you get we you get out. It lists everything you did ion the
>service, schools, awards, etc.
So, when do we get to see it? TAS Form 1, isn't it?? ;-)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 17:30:35 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: GT: Fuel Tanks (was: Reft sector Xboat-link (long))
At 1:35 AM +0100 12/13/00, Kjeld Johansen wrote:
>What I think:
>Standard Tank: They should be the best in most cases, since they are the
>standard.
>Collapsible Tank: I like them. Useful but without being abusive.
>Drop Tank: I don't like them. By ruling that most of the fuel is used during
>the jump, then they can't be used.
>Reducible Tank: I'm not sure any longer. They make it a lot cheaper to cross
>a large rift. And why don't all fuel skimmers use this. They would use less
>space inside the carrier and be able to transport more fuel.
>External Tank: They make it easier to cross a large rift, but most likely
>more expensive. They are rarely useful, but then the External Cradle can be
>used for some thing else. I'll use these, and see no way of stopping their
>use.
Yeah, pretty much what I think. I hadn't thought about "redicible"
tanks much.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net. My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 17:29:00 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Silly characters
In mail you write:
> The best solution I know of for combat monsters in G:T is to add 'Freight
> Handling-12' and 'HazMat-10' to their character sheet, with the explanation
> that the unit they were assigned to did a lot of combat resupply (possibly
> with a note saying the the namby-pamby Imperial Army uses civilian
> contractors for that).
Or they were doing combat resupply for some large mercenary actions or
to warring nations on a balkanized world.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3381
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3382
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, December 13 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3382
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task
Re: Spacefaring Powers
Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task
Bits adventures (was Re: Another GT question...)
RE: Ground Forces
RE: Dune ideas
Re: Spacefaring Powers
Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task
RE: Dune ideas
RE: Spacefaring Powers (was: "The Solomani Rim...")
RE: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
RE: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
RE: Spacefaring Powers (was: "The Solomani Rim...")
RE: Ground Forces
Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
Re: Another GT question...
Reft Sector X-boat link
FW: what do you know about Rugby, Aussie? ;-)
Re DD-214
RE: GT: Fuel Tanks (was: Reft sector Xboat-link (long))
RE: Spacefaring Powers (was: "The Solomani Rim...")
Re DD-214
RE: Another GT question...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 20:18:21 -0600
From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@mail.elc.net>
Subject: Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task
From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" <sdaniels@playnet.com>
>In CT materials, I can't find where non-combat
>task rolls are defined and described. Is my
>memory just fuzzy and Book 1 isn't the place
>to see them? Or maybe my eyes have finally
>crapped out on me. Actually, it's my patience.
>;-)
In most cases, roll an 8+ on two six-sided dice, with a positive DM of your relevant skill level. Many skills and tasks have different target numbers and additional modifiers.
Brandon
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 16:41:46 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Spacefaring Powers
On 12 Dec 00, at 16:28, Pronto wrote:
> > Derrick Jones has correctly pointed out that I was confusing England and
> > Britain at various points in my post. Oops!
> I've always wondered (but never cared enough to ask), what's the difference?
British Isles = Group of Islands off France incl. Britian and Ireland
United Kingdom = Political state covering the British Isles (Excluding Eire),
comprised of the Nations of England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland
and various smaller bits (Channel Islands etc)
Britain = The main Island in the British Isles
England = Dominant nation in the United Kingdom. Basically Britian
exluding Scotland and Wales.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 22:28:21 -0500
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task
> Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 13:13:08 -0600
> From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" <sdaniels@playnet.com>
> Subject: Gone blind - need help on CT task
>
> In CT materials, I can't find where non-combat
> task rolls are defined and described. Is my
> memory just fuzzy and Book 1 isn't the place
> to see them? Or maybe my eyes have finally
> crapped out on me. Actually, it's my patience.
> ;-)
>
> Can anyone throw this drowning man some
> page numbers?
>
> bloo
There isn't really a defined non combat task system in CT.
Just a set of examples in the skill descriptions and of course
extrapolation from combat. It usually boils down to roll
x or greater on two dice. Positive modifier for applicable skill
and/or other situational advantage. Negative modifier for
unskilled attempts and/or other situatuional disadvantage.
if something is easy to do x is low if it's hard to do x is high.
This requires a lot of work on the part of us ol' ref's but it
is doable with a bit of preparation and a lot of winging it.
(or a lot of preparation and a little winging it)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 22:41:13 -0500
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com>
Subject: Bits adventures (was Re: Another GT question...)
> Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 18:56:27 +0000
> From: Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
> Subject: Re: Another GT question...
<snip>
> That said, we may well look at a campaign book instead (something
> like _Hard Times_ conceptually - an area of space as background with
> linked adventures).
Oooh, I like the sound of that
>
> I'm curious how many TMLrs have actually bought the books as I notice
> that not many of the responses about the adventures mentioned them.
> Either they're forgettable or ....
I got Space Dogs a month or so ago and I must say I was impressed.
I'm not the kind of guy that usually uses prefabs but I can see running this
one. When's SD2 comming out?
Dave Shayne
"Every day my metal friend
Shakes my bed at 6 AM (Wake up)
Then the shiny servant clones
Running with my telephones."
"Living in the Plastic Age" - Horn/Downes
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 17:59:20 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: Ground Forces
Mikko V. I. Parviainen wrote :
> On Sun, 10 Dec 2000, Frank G. Pitt wrote:
> > Does Finland have the same ridiculous rules as France about names ?
>
> I could take that as a flame, but, being a nice person, I don't.
It's not a flame, it's a statement of opinion.
> I could ask whether USA still has medieval laws that allow executions,
> but, again, I don't.
I'm not from the US, and no, we don't have such things in New Zealand.
> Yes, Finland has stricter rules about naming people than most other
> countries. This is in the process of being modified, but we still might
> have some order about things here. B-)
>
> For now, you could change your name one time with just notification, if
> the name is a Finnish one. There is still some red tape around acquiring a
> foreign name, but that is more and more easier.
At least it's getting better then.
> Not that I will be very happy to have people like "Christine Virtanen" as
> we have our own versions of the name, Kristiina.
>
> We still have what you might call an own language, so all of us might not
> want to speak mongrel english, thank you.
I don't care what you want to speak.
That has nothing to do with people being free to use their own names.
The reason I consider _all_ naming laws stupid, not just the Finnish ones,
is that
1) There is no need for them
2) They are an infringement on human rights
3) They are (usually) culturally insensitive
3) They are (usually) religiously insensitive
For instance, imagine a person of ethnic Samoan, Chinese, or Bantu descent
being born in Finland and being forced to use a Finnish name. Or a devout
Hassidic Jew or Moslem, for that matter.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 18:28:12 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: Dune ideas
John Snead wrote:
> In thinking about the idea of using the Dune setting, it occured to
> me that there is one primary difference between Dune and Traveller
> that could be very interesting to incorporate in Traveller. Dune is a
> technologically static universe. My impression is that
> technological advancement hasn't happened for many hundred
> years (perhaps longer).
Technological advancement has happened, it's just that it is heavily
constrained by the effect of the Butlerian Jihad against "intelligent"
machines several centuries earlier. _Anything_ that looks even remotely like
a computer is destroyed. It has even led to anything looking to
"technological" being frowned on, so they use ornithopters rather than
helicopters, and fight wars using soldiers rather than tanks.
It's why the "mentat" was developed, and represents a severe limiting factor
for the advancement of technology, as the society is forced to depend on
_humans_ to store, catalog, and calculate data. While mentat's have
impresive capabilities, they are still limited compared to special purpose
calculating machines.
Also, it is in the interests of the Guild of Navigators and the Houses to
control technological advancement as much as possible, as it is a fuedal
system with real serfs.
Note that the face-dancers the Tleilaxu make get significantly better, and
the Ixian technology improves considerably over the scope of the books.
Basicaly, the Dune universe prior to the Butlerian Jihad is _very_ like the
Traveller universe, other than that FTL is different.
Afterwards, it's like post-Virus Traveller.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 21:28:16 -0800
From: "Pronto" <pronto_r031@telus.net>
Subject: Re: Spacefaring Powers
> On 12 Dec 00, at 16:28, Pronto wrote:
>
> > > Derrick Jones has correctly pointed out that I was confusing England
and
> > > Britain at various points in my post. Oops!
>
> > I've always wondered (but never cared enough to ask), what's the
difference?
>
> British Isles = Group of Islands off France incl. Britian and Ireland
> United Kingdom = Political state covering the British Isles (Excluding
Eire),
> comprised of the Nations of England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland
> and various smaller bits (Channel Islands etc)
> Britain = The main Island in the British Isles
> England = Dominant nation in the United Kingdom. Basically Britian
> exluding Scotland and Wales.
>
>
Thank you. Very clear. I think I'll generalize with UK. Seems lest likely to
be wrong. :)
Canada = Country north of the USA, but mainly submerged in the USA.
Canada = Cluster of semi- aligned provinces + Quebec
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 23:45:14 -0600
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task
DaveShayne wrote:
> There isn't really a defined non combat task system in CT.
Just FYI, for those of you reading this threat...KB3 will fit perfectly
into CT as a task system. In fact, KB3 will allow you to merge CT, MT,
and T4 (By using the KB3 system of mechanics, you'll be able to use just
about any supplement or adventure designed for those games
interchangably--with little or no conversion.)
It's in playtest now. I'll let you know more about it once I'm ready to
unveil it.
Kenneth.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 19:08:30 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: Dune ideas
Kenneth Bearden wrote:
> But, something happened. I won't go into it all here--it's too long a
> discussion. But, basically, it was a Terminator-like thing. Humanity
> feared for the machines taking over. There was nefarious manipulation of
> AI and sentient weapons (armies of Data-like beings), allowing upstart
> regimes to challenge the very fabric of the Imperium--the power of the
> Great Noble Houses.
If LUG have written this it disagrees with the known history of Dune.
Yes, there was human fear, but it was not a Terminator thing, the ruling
class of Richese were actively using the AI's to eugenically modify the
population of Korman, the revolt was based just as much on religious
rhetoric about "only the Goddess being allowed to modify humans" as much as
fear.
There were no huge armies of "sentient weapons", and based on the
descriptions even the AI's were not neccessarily sentient, merely
intelligent. There is the example of the interrogation of Dr. Demlen, where
it is revealed that he built the AI in question.
Before the Jihad there was no Imperium, in fact there was no overall control
of human space at all.
Also, most of the "Great Houses" either did not exist, or were minor
planetary nobles prior to the Jihad. House Corrino, for instance did not
take precedence until the Battle of Corrin in 88 B.G, some 120-odd years
after the start of the Jihad, and most people trace the true founding of the
Imperium to the creation of CHOAM, in 12 BG
The Spacer's Guild was non-existent, TransCom controlled the majority of FTL
shipping, from a single moon, and it was the fall of this one moon to the
Jihad early on that allowed the Jihad to succeed. That and Jehanne's husband
turning out to be a tactical genius.
<snip>
> Computers are used, for sure--but true AI is banned.
Actually, using _any_ form of computer other than a mentat is dangerous in
the period of the first Dune books, only the black market has them, and
their use is proscribed. It's why the mentat was developed.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 19:19:31 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: Spacefaring Powers (was: "The Solomani Rim...")
Rob Myers wrote :
> "John P. Raynor" wrote:
> > I kind of like the idea of a "New
> > British Empire," consisting of Great Britain, Anglo-Canada (but not
> > Quebec), New Zealand, and Australia.
>
> Aussies and Kiwis on the list won't be so keen.
Well, I would be.
Though I used to belong to Alf's Imperial Army, and consider monarchy the
only reasonable form of government, so I might be biased.
> > It might, however, be more realistic and plausible without the royal
> > family and the other trappings
> > of old-fashioned imperialism (the starship mentioned in "Trillion
> > Credit Squadron" might have been named by Euro-philic British emigrants,
> > for all we know).
>
> The Royals are a useful check on government power. The
> alternative is a presidency...
Or a wire attached to a 5000V generator and a switch in the hands of all the
people.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 22:20:54 -0800
From: "tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@bigfoot.com>
Subject: RE: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
I don't follow your logic here.
Say, you have a Jump-6 100 ton ship. It uses 60 tons of fuel for a jump-6.
If you add a 100 ton fuel tank to it (and it has to carry it thru jump) then
you cannot make a jump-6, because that J6 drive will only push 200 tons J3.
So, you use 60 tons of fuel and do a J3. You then burn the remaining 40 tons
in the tanks and do a J4 (as per CT dumping the tanks). You then burn the
internal 60 ton stores and do one more J6 and arrive 16 parsecs away, with
no jump tanks a dry fuel tanks after about 3 weeks.
If you add a fuel tanks to make it a 1896 ton ship, then it can make (J6 @
100 tons = aprox J0.3) using 60 tons of fuel.
- -----Original Message-----
> I think he'd be better off keeping all tankage internal and not get into
the whole drop
> tank thing because of all the side-effect issues, just my opinion.
Hmm, I have been thinking about this.
If you can drop or reduce the volume of the fuel-tank then you can just add
more fuel capacity and be capable of traveling further without refueling. A
100-Ton jump-6 ship could add a 167-Ton fuel-tank and make an extra jump-6,
and a 444-Ton fuel-tank to make one more. The 3rd tank should be 1185-Ton,
making it an 1896-Ton ship capable of traveling across a 24 parsec rift.
This would change the OTU, where I thing a 10 parsec rift is impassable
unless you uses an STL-ship.
Conclusion: IMTU drop-tanks and reducible fuel-tanks is impossible. Now I
just have to come up with an explanation. Any suggestions?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 19:35:15 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
Leonard Erickson wrote :
> >>Rwemember, the hydrogen goes to the *jump drive*. What you just said is
> >>rather like "Gee, why do I have to get the fuel from these drop tanks
> >>on the plane to the main tanks or to the engines?"
> >
> > I'm talking about what happens to the fuel in the dive. If you
> > really believe in capacitors, then there is no reason they can't
> > be charged from an external power source.
>
> That assuming that they are storing something simple like "electrical
> energy". They may be storing something that only a jump drive can
> produce/use.
>
> I rather like that approach because it keeps folks from running weapons
> and the like off of "capacitors".
Unfortunately, there is no logical reason why you shouldn't be allowed to do
so (though I agree that there are game balance problems) , and the books say
you can anyway. Not under drop tanks, but you can use the energy absorbed by
a Black Globe to either power weapons or for jump.
So, even if there's something special about the capacitors used with BGs, if
you can get some of those, you should be able to power your weapons from
drop tanks !
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 19:38:19 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: Spacefaring Powers (was: "The Solomani Rim...")
Pronto wrote :
> I've always wondered (but never cared enough to ask), what's the
> difference?
The island consisting of England, Wales, and Scotland is called Britain.
If you add in Northern Ireland, and several other islands, you get "Great"
Britain.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 19:40:43 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: Ground Forces
Frank G. Pitt
> > I could ask whether USA still has medieval laws that allow executions,
> > but, again, I don't.
>
> I'm not from the US, and no, we don't have such things in New Zealand.
Actually, as I've just been reminded by the evening news, this is not
entirely true.
We do still execute dogs.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 17:48:59 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
On Tue, Dec 12, 2000 at 10:20:54PM -0800, tsykoduk wrote:
> I don't follow your logic here.
>
> Say, you have a Jump-6 100 ton ship. It uses 60 tons of fuel for a jump-6.
>
> If you add a 100 ton fuel tank to it (and it has to carry it thru jump) then
> you cannot make a jump-6, because that J6 drive will only push 200 tons J3.
I always thought that each drive was built for a specific maximum
volume. So that if you wanted to add a 100-ton fuel tank, you'd have
to upgrade the drive. Then again, I haven't read every supplement
ever printed.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 01:40:48 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Another GT question...
On 12/12/00 at 06:56 PM, Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> said:
>I'm curious how many TMLrs have actually bought the books as I
>notice that not many of the responses about the adventures
>mentioned them. Either they're forgettable or ....
Hey, I gave you a nice easy pitch so you could plug your product. <g>
If you won't I will...everybody, go buy copies of the BITS adventures. Not only are they good, but they'll encourage Dom and his cohort to publish some more!
Eris
ps. I just put Spacedogs back onto my Traveller shelf last night after rereading it.
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 09:06:32 +0100
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Reft Sector X-boat link
Kjeld Johansen writes:
>Hi, I’m new to this list, and I’m full of questions ;-)
Welcome to the list. Where in Denmark do you live? If it's Copenhagen we should
try to get together. Traveller players are few and far between here. Feel free
to give me a call on 40 92 85 77.
>In my GT campaign is the Vargr giving troubles in the Corridor sector, so to
>maintain a steady communication link from the Capital to the Spinward
>Marches sector, are the IISS planning to make an Xboat-link through the Reft
>sector.
Even if IYTU (In Your Traveller Universe) the Vargr are strong enough and
organized enough to cause trouble in Corridor, are they also strong enough to
interfere with major defenses? If not, the IISS should be able to work out a
route that goes through systems with high-population worlds and naval bases
only. Or one running along the rimward edge of Corridor sector where the Vargr
are unlikely to come. Or communication through Corridor might be turned over to
the IN if the Scouts can't do it.
>This route will go by Cerebin (0217) > Zuflucht (0921) > Serendip Belt
>(1323) > Elysee (1525) > New Home (1925) > Amondiage (2325) > Eskandor
>(3028).
>The first and the last of these jumps will demand a Jump-7, and for this job
>there have been designed a 220-Ton Serendip-Class Express Boat [G:TL 12].
>This is basically a standard xboat, with expanded fuel capacity.
If I was planning such a route, I think I would use a deep space refuelling
station (aka a calibration point) one parsec from one of the worlds in each
7-parsec link. Basically you put some tanks in a spot in an empty hex and then
use a fuel shuttle to keep the tank topped up. The Scout courier can then jump
to the depot, fill its tanks and move on exactly as if it was any other link in
the chain.
You can also put your deep space fuel depots further away from your base system
if that will improve the route, but it will take a bigger fuel shuttle to keep
it topped up. For instance, a ship with 80% fuel tankage can make a jump-1,
leave 60% in the depot, and return whereas the same ship will only be able to
leave 40% at a depot 2 parsecs out and 20% at a depot 3 parsecs out. (I'm
ignoring the various dodges to make the fuel shuttle smaller for the return
jump).
Hans
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 08:30:38 -0000
From: "Derrick Jones" <dojones.whitestar@btinternet.com>
Subject: FW: what do you know about Rugby, Aussie? ;-)
oops didn't send this to the list as I thought I had. Maybe now you'll understand
what Alan was referring to.
derrick
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Derrick Jones [mailto:dojones.whitestar@btinternet.com]
> Sent: 12 December 2000 21:40
> To: 'Alan Bradley <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>'
> Subject: what do you know about Rugby, Aussie? ;-)
>
>
> Alan, (Apologies to those who don't quite share our passion
> for this sport..
> I shall only make this one off topic post)
>
> >No. The British are just really bad at Cricket and Rugby League, and
> >therefore an inferior race, far below those that recognise Australian
> >superiority by not playing the sacred games. : )
> <snip>
>
> (First off, I'd not say the British are really bad, just not
> quite as good as you guys
> but #3 in the world isn't bad. I mean, it isn't as if we
> invented the game or anything is it?)
>
> You confusing the British with the English, Alan? I seem to remember
> that one little 'insignificant' Rugby League playing country
> from Britain
> certainly knocked the Aussies on their backs recently. (Had
> you all worried
> for at least 60 minutes of the game). The faces on the Aussie
> players when
> Briers plucked the ball away from Lockyear and then kicked
> his second drop
> goal - what a sight! Not bad for a team that the Aussie
> pundits had written off
> from day one as not even going to qualify from their group!
>
>
>
> >Oh, and Rugby League will re-unite with Rugby Union
> ("Rugby"), giving a
> >game which will be a major sport in both France and
> Australia. (Distant
> >sounds of bone-crunching collisions.) : )
>
> Are you really trying to get my back up? The two codes will
> never merge. The
> Rah Rah boys want to, simply to blot out the bad memories of
> being the inferior
> game for so long. Any true Rugby fan knows which is the
> better game, and as
> someone who has played both at Regimental and Corps level, I
> can tell you
> which is the hardest, most crunching...
>
> Pity that God's team can't open the invitation to Brisbane to
> come to our
> place for a night to remember in January, (we have to go to
> Bolton instead)
> cos you'd really see what British rugby is made of. And again
> we'd see the
> Mighty of Cunningham (The best No 9* in the game, bar none!)
> knocking Aussies
> out of the way left right and centre!
>
> Then again, being a Saints** supporter, I'm used to (b)eating
> humble pie(s)!***
> We'll see!
>
> Regards
>
> Derrick
>
> Derrick Jones
> St Helens
> Lancashire UK
> http://www.btinternet.com/~dojones.whitestar
>
> *Actually a No 9 is normally called a 'Hooker', but didn't
> want to confuse anyone
> into thinking we were discussing something else! ;-)
>
>
> **St Helens RLFC
> Superleague Champions 1996, 1999, 2000
> (Follow the link on my Hobbies section of my website for more info)
>
>
> *** There is a joke in there for RL fans.
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 16:43:11 -0000
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
Subject: Re DD-214
I thought that DD-214 was a US destroyer laid down in 1918 (Flush Decker
type). I have not been able to find details of this ship but those with
pennant numbers around it served in WW2. Anyone have any details?
Antony
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 16:43:12 -0000
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
Subject: RE: GT: Fuel Tanks (was: Reft sector Xboat-link (long))
Then as the drop tank flame war re-ignites a lone Gazelle class close escort
drops its tanks prior to jump and does jump-5.
Antony
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 16:43:09 -0000
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
Subject: RE: Spacefaring Powers (was: "The Solomani Rim...")
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Frank G. Pitt
Sent: Wednesday, 13 December 2000 6:38 AM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: RE: Spacefaring Powers (was: "The Solomani Rim...")
Pronto wrote :
> I've always wondered (but never cared enough to ask), what's the
> difference?
The island consisting of England, Wales, and Scotland is called Britain.
If you add in Northern Ireland, and several other islands, you get "Great"
Britain.
Frankie
Actually I thought that Great Britains referred to the islands and that
lesser or sometimes Little Britain used to refer to the region called
Brittany.
Antony
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 22:55:41 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re DD-214
On 13 Dec 00, at 16:43, Antony Farrell wrote:
> I thought that DD-214 was a US destroyer laid down in 1918 (Flush Decker
> type). I have not been able to find details of this ship but those with
> pennant numbers around it served in WW2. Anyone have any details?
My copy of Conway's gives her as USS Tracey, a Clemson Class
destroyer. Launched 12/8/1919, BU 1946. If you check the Dictonary of US
Fighting Ships (ts online somewere, I can't remember the URL but there's a
link on the Haze and Grey site) you should get a detailed history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 10:03:23 -0000
From: Matt Bond <MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Another GT question...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dominic Mooney [mailto:dom@cybergoths.u-net.com]
> Sent: 12 December 2000 18:55
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: Another GT question...
>
>
> At 21:13 -0500 11/12/00, Anthony Jackson
> <ajackson@molly.iii.com> wrote:
> >There's a reason that almost _no-one_ makes adventures any
> more. They just
> >don't make much money. D&D is about the only exception, and
> I wouldn't be
> >too surprised if D&D adventures don't make much money either.
>
> Scanning my shelves the following companies have scenarios out -
>
> Chaosium (CoC, Elric).
> Green Knight (Pendragon)
> AEG (7th Sea, Lot5R)
> Hogshead (WHFRP, SLA Industries)
> FarFuture ;-)
> BITS ;-)
>
> Issaries are about to release a scenario book for Hero Wars
> (_Sartar Rising_)
>
> Dom
Other systems I have with several adventures published and in print are
Shadowrun (FASA) and Earthdawn (FASA & LRG)
Matt
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3382
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3383
Date: | 12/13/00 9:17:04 AM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, December 13 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3383
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re DD-214
RE: Spacefaring Powers (was: "The Solomani Rim...")
OT: DnD Movie review
RE: Spacefaring Powers (was: "The Solomani Rim...")
RE: Reft Sector X-boat link
Re: Reft Sector X-boat link
Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
RE: Re DD-214
Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task
Re: Spacefaring Powers
"Dense, High" Atmospheres
Re: "Dense, High" Atmospheres
BITS adventures...
RE: Spacefaring Powers
RE: Silly Skills
RE: Silly characters
RE: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
Re: Re DD-214
ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 23:05:14 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re DD-214
On 13 Dec 00, at 16:43, Antony Farrell wrote:
> I thought that DD-214 was a US destroyer laid down in 1918 (Flush Decker
> type). I have not been able to find details of this ship but those with
> pennant numbers around it served in WW2. Anyone have any details?
Found it
Tracy
(DD-214: dp. 1,308; 1. 314'4"; b. 30'11"; dr. 9'9"; s. 35.0 k.; cpl. 132; a. 4
4", 1 3", 12 21" tt.; cl.,Clemson)
Tracy (DD-214) was laid down on 3 April 1919 at Philadelphia, Pa., by the
William Cramp and Sons' Shipyard; launched on 13 August 1919-
sponsored by Mrs. Frank B. Tracy; and commissioned on 9 March 1920,
Comdr. Lawrence P. Treadwell in command.
Following commissioning, Tracy cruised on shakedown to the Dry Tortugas
before returning to Philadelphia. She steamed with Destroyer Division
(DesDiv) 39 for duty in the Near East, arriving at Constantinople, Turkey, in
early June 1920.
With the troubled international situation in the Near East, American naval
forces "showed the flag" and stood ready to protect American lives and
property. Tracy touched at principal Black Sea ports and also visited cities
along the coasts of Palestine and Egypt, as well as Mediterranean Turkey.
As the bloody civil war cast its dark shadow over Russia and the
Bolsheviks swept all before them, the White Russians were forced to
evacuate. Tracy was one of the ships which embarked hundreds of
refugees at Sevastopol and carried them to Constantinople.
In June 1921, she sailed with her division for the Far East, transiting the
Suez Canal and touching at ports in India, Ceylon, French Indochina, and
Java before finally reaching Manila late in August 1921.
Tracy initially operated independently with the South China Patrol and "showed the flag" at the ports upon which she called. Detached from this duty in the spring of 1923, she steamed to Japan for a goodwill cruise before
proceeding to Chefoo for summer maneuvers
Anchored at Dairen, Manchuria, in early September 1923, Tracy received orders to get underway immediately for Yokohama, Japan, which had been rocked by a severe earthquake. Upon arrival, she participated in the initial re
lief work there and carried refugees from Yokohama to Tokyo. She sent repair parties ashore to assist in laying fresh water lines and remained in the Yokohama area for two weeks before heading for Shanghai.
There, her landing party went ashore to guard the American-owned Shanghai Light and Power Company until relieved on 12 October 1923 by a force from armored cruiser Huron. Proceeding to Manila, she spent some time in that
port before commencing a cruise to southern Philippine ports on 26 November. For the remainder of her tour in the Asiatic Fleet, she carried out flag-showing cruises and exercises before departing for the United States on
8 May 1925. At Midway, her division was relieved by DesDiv 39.
Arriving in San Diego, Calif., on 17 June, Tracy was refitted and received new fire-control instruments. She departed the west coast on 24 June and proceeded, via the Panama Canal, to New York City. Spending the next two
years with the Scouting Fleet, Tracy wound up her tour by taking part in the reinforcement operations for the Special Service Squadron in Nicaraguan waters during the revolution and civil strife which had broken out in th
at country in November and December 1926.
Following overhaul by the Norfolk Navy Yard, Tracy returned briefly to Nicaraguan waters in March 1927 and then proceeded north. Steaming from Newport, R.I., on 1 June with DesDiv 38, she visited Queenstown, Northern Irel
and before touching at ports in Scotland, England, Belgium France, Portugal, Spain, Algeria, Tunisia, and Italy. Departing Gibraltar on 28 January 1928, she operated in the Atlantic for one month before orders transferred
DesDiv 38 to the Battle Fleet. Based at San Diego from 1 April 1928 until the spring of 1929, Tracy served on occasion as plane guard destroyer with Lexington (CV-2) and Saratoga (CV-3) before preparing at Mare Island Na
vy Yard, in June and July 1929, for duty in the Far East.
DesDiv 38 relieved DesDiv 45 at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, and then proceeded to Japan for a goodwill visit, arriving at Yokohama on 26 August 1929.
In accordance with the Asiatic Fleet's routine, Tracy alternated duty in China ports in the summer with operations in the Philippines during the winter. The months in between were spent in cruises along the Chinese coast,
engaged in "showing the flag" and exercises. During the fall of 1930, after a cruise to the Netherlands East Indies, she was fitted out for extended independent duties as station ship, Chefoo, China.
Japan's seizure of Manchuria in September 1931 and the fighting between Japanese and Chinese forces around Shanghai in February 1932 enlivened the Asiatic Fleet's duty at this juncture, but Tracy's activities were limited
to keeping an watchful eye on American interests. Later in the year, the destroyer received orders assigning her once again to the Battle Force, and she left the Asiatic Fleet for the last time.
Tracy took part in maneuvers and exercises in the Pacific and off the west coast before being reclassified as a destroyer-minelayer and redesignated DM-19 on 30 June 1937. Tracy was then assigned to Mine Division 1 and op
erated out of Pearl Harbor with the Battle Force.
In late 1941, her division entered the navy yard at Pearl Harbor for overhaul. On 7 December 1941, Tracy lay at berth 15 of the yard with her machinery, boilers, and guns dismantled. Most of her complement were living in
the receiving barracks ashore, and only a skeleton crew was on board. As Japanese planes swept overhead, Tracy's crew boarded their ship and sought to find ways to fight back.
Some sailors went to Cummings (DD-376) and helped to man her guns, others boarded Pennsylvania (BB-38) and assisted in fighting the battleship's antiaircraft batteries. Meanwhile, back on board Tracy, the remaining destro
yermen, after assembling three .30-caliber lewis guns and two .50-caliber Brownings, did their best to drive off the attackers. When the raid ended, a party of 10 men from the destroyer minesweeper assisted in fighting fi
res raging on board stricken California (BB-44).
Following the interrupted overhaul at the navy yard, Tracy went to sea to commence wartime operations. On 31 March 1942, she assisted in laying a minefield near French Frigate Shoals before returning to Pearl Harbor and c
onducting local operations. She then headed for Suva, in the Fiji Islands, on 23 July Seven days later, in company with Breese (DM-18) and Gamble (DM-15), Tracy arrived at Suva before proceeding from there to Espiritu San
to.
At bases in the Southwest Pacific, American forces prepared for their first amphibious thrust of the war, aimed at the Solomon Islands. Tracy, in Task Force (TF) 62, arrived off the beaches of Guadalcanal on 7 August, as
the guns of American cruisers and destroyers awoke the Japanese to a thundering reveille. She took part in the bitterly fought campaign for the islands in the Solomons, engaged in the unglamorous but vital tasks of escort
duty and antisubmarine patrol. She operated between Espiritu Santo and the battle zones through the summer and fall of 1942 before returning to Pearl Harbor in December for a brief refit. On 18 December. she set out for
New Caledonia, escorting a west-bound convoy, and arrived with her charges at Noumea on 2 January 1943.
Designated a unit in TF 66, she operated out of Noumea and Nandi, on occasion engaged in laying minefields around the American and Allied bases. She also delivered much-needed gasoline to Henderson Field, on Guadalcanal,
for the aircraft of the "Cactus Air Force," whose planes carried the battle to the enemy from the air.
By late January 1943, the Japanese had decided to abandon Guadalcanal and had begun to evacuate as many men as could be plucked from the steamy island and ferried through the gauntlet of American sea and air power. Increa
sed enemy surface activity with corresponding air cover tipped off the Americans that major Japanese troop movements were afoot, and orders went out to try to derail the "Tokyo Express" by any means possible mines, PT-boa
ts, and air strikes.
On 1 February 1943, a large force of Japanese destroyers was sighted heading for "Ironbottom Sound." Tracy, as task group leader, led Montgomery (DM-17) and Preble (DM-20) in laying a field of 300 mines between Doma Reef
and Cape Esperance. That night, Japanese destroyer Makigumo struck one of these mines and was damaged so badly that she was scuttled. Nevertheless, the Japanese managed to extricate the remnants of their garrison from Gua
dalcanal.
Following this action, Tracy rejoined TF 62 for escort duty and touched at Noumea, Tulagi, and Efate before heading for Hawaii on 19 April. She reached Pearl Harbor on 1 May and, 11 days later, headed toward San Francisco
for a much needed overhaul at Mare Island.
After refitting, Tracy departed San Francisco on 22 May and spent the next few months engaged in "milk runs" convoys between the Hawaiian islands and the west coast. On 10 August, she departed Pearl Harbor and steamed to
Samoa and thence set her course toward Espiritu Santo and the South Pacific.
At the end of November 1943, Tracy led a division of minelayers in placing an offensive minefield near Bougainville in preparations for the landings there.
Next, operating out of Noumea for the remainder of 1943, Tracy called at Funafuti, Espiritu Santo, and Guadalcanal through December. On 1 January 1944 she steamed in convoy with President Jackson (AP-37) President Haves (
AP-39), President Adams (AP-38), Titania (AK-65), and Athena (AK-26) to the Fiji Islands, arriving at Nandi on 5 January.
Underway again the following day, Tracy escorted another convoy to Guadalcanal, conducting gunnery exercises en route, and arrived on the 10th. Later in the month, she departed Efate, New Hebrides, bound for New Caledonia
in company with President Hayes. During the passage, they fought through a storm before arriving at Noumea on the 19th. Upon the completion of refueling there, she proceeded to Wellington, New Zealand. For the remainder
of January and continuing into May, she threaded her way among the Pacific Isles, escorting convoys and carrying out exercises en route.
On 3 June, she arrived in San Francisco to commence overhaul at Hunters Point. Upon conclusion of the yard work, Tracy underwent refresher training off the west coast, ranging as far north as Seattle and Bremerton, Wash.
On 31 August, she departed Seattle in company with SS Cushman K. Davis bound for Oahu, and arrived at Pearl Harbor on 9 September.
After a navy yard availability from 12 to 24 September, she got underway on the 29th, bound for the Marshalls in company with Convoy BD-110T. Arriving at Eniwetok on 8 October, she commenced further convoy runs between En
iwetok and Pearl Harbor, and Pearl Harbor and San Francisco; arriving back on the west coast on 6 November 1944. Following a brief layover in San Diego, Tracys bow headed west toward Honolulu, before escorting another eas
tbound convoy back to San Francisco.
With Iwo Jima secured, the Navy then turned its attention to Okinawa, with Tracy taking part in this action as well, serving as buoy-laying and mine disposal vessel, arriving off that island on 1 April 1945. While in supp
ort of the Okinawa invasion, she engaged in antisubmarine and antismall boat patrols off the Fleet anchorages. While operating in this vital screening duty, she rescued survivors from LCI(G)-82 which had been hit by a Jap
anese suicide motorboat. In a period of heavy air activities, when many a ship writhed in agony after being struck by the kamikaze, Tracy bore a charmed life, emerging from the arduous Okinawa campaign unscathed. She depa
rted for Ulithi on 16 April and arrived on 22 April at the sprawling atoll to commence a period of upkeep and availability which lasted until 2 May. Continuing operations in the western Pacific, she took part in convoy es
cort duties through July, when she escorted an LST convoy from Okinawa to Leyte, anchoring in San Pedro Bay, Leyte, P.I., on 3 July. From 5 to 17 July, she underwent tender availability before entering floating drydock AR
D-2 for hull repairs.
Under the operational control of Minecraft, Pacific Fleet, she anchored at San Pedro Bay through the middle of August. On 10 August, her radio picked up an unofficial Japanese broadcast which announced that Japan had agre
ed to accept unconditional surrender terms. Tracy's log noted: "Much blowing of whistles and searchlight displays by Fleet units present."
On 15 August, she got underway as part of the screen for TU 72.5.38, and, while en route to Okinawa she received word to cease all offensive activities. Entering Buckner Bay, Okinawa, on 20 August, she lay at anchor for f
ive days before transferring Mark VI buoys from Weehawken (CM-12) to various other fast minesweepers gathering to commence the job of sweeping up the mines sown during the war.
The end of the war in the Pacific in August marked only the beginning of Tracy's participation in the gigantic minesweeping efforts in Japanese home waters. From Buckner Bay, the ship proceeded to Japan and she arrived in
Nagasaki Wan on 11 September one of the first Allied ships to enter that expanse of water. She served as buoy-laying and mine-disposal vessel during the minesweeping operations which cleared the sea lanes outside of that
key seaport and continued these duties until late in October, when she sailed for home.
Her career as a fighting ship in the United States Navy all but over, Tracy
pointed her bow towards home on 25 October and called briefly at Buckner
Bay en route to Pearl Harbor. Arriving at the Hawaiian base in mid-
November, she departed there on the 18th, bound via San Diego, Calif.,
and Salina Cruz, Mexico for the Panama Canal. She arrived at New York in
December 1945 and was
decommissioned on 19 January 1946. Struck from the Navy list on 7
February 1946, she was sold to the Northern Metals Company of
Philadelphia, Pa., and scrapped later in the year.
Tracy received seven battle stars for her World War II service.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 11:23:58 +0000 (GMT)
From: Eamon Patrick Watters <E.Watters@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK>
Subject: RE: Spacefaring Powers (was: "The Solomani Rim...")
Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz> sent:
>Pronto wrote :
>> I've always wondered (but never cared enough to ask), what's the
>> difference?
>
>The island consisting of England, Wales, and Scotland is called Britain.
>
>If you add in Northern Ireland, and several other islands, you get
>"Great" Britain.
Close, but no cigar. Great Britain is England, Wales, and Scotland
politically. When you add Northern Ireland you get:
"The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland"
Which technically makes me a UKer and not a Brit, as I live in NI.
Eamon Watters
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 11:22:35 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: OT: DnD Movie review
I just got a review for the Dungeons and Dragons movie. Anyone interested?
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 11:26:24 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Spacefaring Powers (was: "The Solomani Rim...")
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eamon Patrick Watters [mailto:E.Watters@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK]
> Sent: 13 December 2000 11:24
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: RE: Spacefaring Powers (was: "The Solomani Rim...")
>
>
> Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz> sent:
>
> >Pronto wrote :
> >> I've always wondered (but never cared enough to ask), what's the
> >> difference?
> >
> >The island consisting of England, Wales, and Scotland is
> called Britain.
> >
> >If you add in Northern Ireland, and several other islands, you get
> >"Great" Britain.
>
> Close, but no cigar. Great Britain is England, Wales, and Scotland
> politically. When you add Northern Ireland you get:
>
> "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland"
>
> Which technically makes me a UKer and not a Brit, as I live in NI.
>
S'right. but despite all the confusion over names and which country is
called what and so on we still manage to keep our elections to under a month
;)
Dean
PS: Just watch...next year we'll probably have a civil war JUST to make me
look foolish!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 11:39:46 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Reft Sector X-boat link
<snip>
Or communication through Corridor might
> be turned over to
> the IN if the Scouts can't do it.
Probably, although the Scouts would NOT like that at all...hmmm plot seed
anyone?
>
> >This route will go by Cerebin (0217) > Zuflucht (0921) >
> Serendip Belt
> >(1323) > Elysee (1525) > New Home (1925) > Amondiage (2325)
> > Eskandor
> >(3028).
> >The first and the last of these jumps will demand a Jump-7,
> and for this job
> >there have been designed a 220-Ton Serendip-Class Express
> Boat [G:TL 12].
> >This is basically a standard xboat, with expanded fuel capacity.
I assume a jump to empty space followed by another to a planet? J-7 engines
would complicate things hugely.
>
> If I was planning such a route, I think I would use a deep
> space refuelling
> station (aka a calibration point) one parsec from one of the
> worlds in each
> 7-parsec link. Basically you put some tanks in a spot in an
> empty hex and then
> use a fuel shuttle to keep the tank topped up. The Scout
> courier can then jump
> to the depot, fill its tanks and move on exactly as if it was
> any other link in
> the chain.
Perhaps a very large depot permanantly manned. Be careful not to have more
than 8 depots, or your players will nickname the last one Deep Space 9.
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 13:08:10 +0100
From: "Kjeld Johansen" <kjeld@games.dk>
Subject: Re: Reft Sector X-boat link
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
>> In my GT campaign is the Vargr giving troubles in the Corridor sector, so
to
>> maintain a steady communication link from the Capital to the Spinward
>> Marches sector, are the IISS planning to make an Xboat-link through the
Reft
>> sector.
> Even if IYTU (In Your Traveller Universe) the Vargr are strong enough and
> organized enough to cause trouble in Corridor, are they also strong enough
to
> interfere with major defenses? If not, the IISS should be able to work out
a
> route that goes through systems with high-population worlds and naval
bases
> only. Or one running along the rimward edge of Corridor sector where the
Vargr
> are unlikely to come. Or communication through Corridor might be turned
over to
> the IN if the Scouts can't do it.
Yes, the Imperial Navy can force the Xboat through, and they also have to
use resources protecting the trade through Corridor. But it would be nice,
if they had an alternative route.
My goal is to increase the importance of the Island Kingdoms, and the story
about Oekhsos The Leader (G: Behinnd the Claw p. 135-136 “Oekhsos is the
single greatest threat to the citizens of the Imperium to emerge this
decade”) fits nicely into this.
>> This route will go by Cerebin (0217) > Zuflucht (0921) > Serendip Belt
>> (1323) > Elysee (1525) > New Home (1925) > Amondiage (2325) > Eskandor
>> (3028).
>> The first and the last of these jumps will demand a Jump-7, and for this
job
>> there have been designed a 220-Ton Serendip-Class Express Boat [G:TL 12].
>> This is basically a standard xboat, with expanded fuel capacity.
> If I was planning such a route, I think I would use a deep space
refuelling
> station (aka a calibration point) one parsec from one of the worlds in
each
> 7-parsec link. Basically you put some tanks in a spot in an empty hex and
then
> use a fuel shuttle to keep the tank topped up. The Scout courier can then
jump
> to the depot, fill its tanks and move on exactly as if it was any other
link in
> the chain.
Why didn’t I think of that? ;-)
The IISS would have to use some of their J6 ships, but that’s better than
designing a new type of ship.
And if you make more of these deep space bases, then you can acutely make a
trade route through the rift. Even though the transport would be expensive.
I think the best would be a J3 route since there is several G:TL10 worlds in
the two subsectors.
Kjeld.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 13:30:42 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
Frank G. Pitt wrote:
> The reason I consider _all_ naming laws stupid, not just the Finnish ones,
> is that
>
> 1) There is no need for them
> 2) They are an infringement on human rights
> 3) They are (usually) culturally insensitive
> 3) They are (usually) religiously insensitive
>
> For instance, imagine a person of ethnic Samoan, Chinese, or Bantu descent
> being born in Finland and being forced to use a Finnish name. Or a devout
> Hassidic Jew or Moslem, for that matter.
Under the naming laws used in Scandinavia (Sweden, Finland, Norway,
Denmark, Iceland), at least in the countries I know these laws of, you
are allowed to take an "odd" name if you have cultural background etc.
to motivate it.
What is disallowed is taking an "odd" name without apparent reason.
However, the laws are quite loose on that subject as well. Names which
are obviously silly, like "Idiot" or "Gravel" (actually tried and denied
in Sweden), will not be allowed. However...
There is one man with the name Sauron.
There are four men with the name Legolas. Two of them have that name as
their primary name.
(source: Swedish Central Buerau of Statistics)
The laws are not that strict after all ;-)
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 20:24:58 -0000
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
Subject: RE: Re DD-214
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
Thankyou for the information on USS Tracey (DD-214)
Not a bad record for an old tin can.
I can see an adventure coming up. Time to dig out an old TL13 Solomani
destroyer, perhaps during the first Rim War.
First the PCs have to get an old mothballed ship restored for war service
and then!!
Antony
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 08:32:34 -0500
From: knightsky@juno.com
Subject: Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task
> In CT materials, I can't find where non-combat task rolls are defined
and described. Is my memory just fuzzy and Book 1 isn't > the place
to see them? Or maybe my eyes have finally crapped out on me.
My momma always said that playing CT would make you go blind...
Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 23:16:59 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Spacefaring Powers
> From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance"
> British Isles = Group of Islands off France incl. Britian and Ireland
> United Kingdom = Political state covering the British Isles (Excluding
Eire),
> comprised of the Nations of England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland
> and various smaller bits (Channel Islands etc)
> Britain = The main Island in the British Isles
> England = Dominant nation in the United Kingdom. Basically Britian
> exluding Scotland and Wales.
More importantly, England is a cricket team. Britain isn't.
This applies to various other sports as well. In some cases Wales and
Scotland have their own teams.
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 09:06:39 -0500 (EST)
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
Subject: "Dense, High" Atmospheres
I'm not sure I understand what is meant by a "Dense, High" atmosphere.
Just how dense is such an atmosphere in the "unbreathable" regions? Are
we supposed to envision a pressurized inferno-planet like Venus, only
blessed with more oxygen and (very) tall mountains? Or is the atmosphere
in low-lying regions "unbreathable" for subtler reasons?
- J. Raynor
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 15:19:33 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: "Dense, High" Atmospheres
John P. Raynor wrote:
> I'm not sure I understand what is meant by a "Dense, High" atmosphere.
> Just how dense is such an atmosphere in the "unbreathable" regions? Are
> we supposed to envision a pressurized inferno-planet like Venus, only
> blessed with more oxygen and (very) tall mountains? Or is the atmosphere
> in low-lying regions "unbreathable" for subtler reasons?
All of the above ;-)
Classifications often include various different cases grouped together
for convenience.
Some kind of heavy gas could certainly make the atmoshere in valleys and
other low-lying regions unbreathable. A similiar effect could also be
achieved if the atmospheric pressure is very high, making it endurable
only at (really) high altitudes.
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 08:59:57 -0600
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: BITS adventures...
eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
> If you won't I will...everybody, go buy copies of the BITS adventures. Not only are they good, but they'll encourage Dom and his cohort to publish some more!
How "complete" are the BITS adventures?
One of the things that has always bugged me about Traveller adventures in the past was that, in general, they were more "adventure ideas" or "adventure outlines"
than real, full fledged, fleshed out adventure.
When I buy an adventure scenario, I want to see detailed deck plans if a ship is involved, floor plans if encounters take place in buildings, a map of the planet
and a map of the city the adventure takes place in (if appropriate).
And, I want to see the encounters detailed in such a way that they are plug-n-play. I just want to read it and go, if I'm short on time.
One of the things that WotC is doing right with the new D&D 3rd edition (and TSR has always done) is that, when you buy one of these adventures, you've got
EVERYTHING you need to play right there at your finger tips--encounter charts, bad guy stats, floor plans...all of it.
As for a scifi game, West End's Star Wars got it right. Look at one of their adventures--you always get EVERYTHING you need.
Now, I own the T4 version of "Long Way Home", and although I haven't read it cover-to-cover, I've flipped through it--and it seems to have everything a GM would
want in an adventure.
If the other BITS adventures are prepared like this one, I'm going to have to get me a couple (dagnabbit).
Thanks,
Kenneth.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 15:12:51 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Spacefaring Powers
>
> British Isles = Group of Islands off France incl. Britian and Ireland
> United Kingdom = Political state covering the British Isles
> (Excluding Eire),
> comprised of the Nations of England, Scotland, Wales,
> Northern Ireland
> and various smaller bits (Channel Islands etc)
> Britain = The main Island in the British Isles
> England = Dominant nation in the United Kingdom. Basically Britian
> exluding Scotland and Wales.
>
A group is islands just off France?! Nonsense, sir, France is a large
landmass just off the southern coast of England!
OB-TRAV: Far from home, the party is confused by the mapping and referencial
conventions of a sub-sector wide polity which insists on describing the
galaxy in relation to itself (eg Mora is in the Trailing Marches :) )
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 07:29:26 -0800
From: "tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@bigfoot.com>
Subject: RE: Silly Skills
I assume that each 200 hours of study or practice/work with a skill gains 1
SP (B82, sidebar).
So, I have some hobbies (archery etc). I have 1/2 point in them. An average
person would have a Skill of 9 for easy, 8 for average and 7 for hard
(physical) and .
So... If I were to get a Bachelors in Mathematics, assuming 4 years to
obtain, assuming 3 months off a year and assuming 6 hours a day study =
about 4600 hours of study (not including weekends) ~ 23 SP. Not all of these
would go into the primary skill (You have PE, and all that other general ed)
I assume that 2/3 is towards the primary skill _group_. In mathematics there
is probably one skill (which could be expanded), so let's put 14 towards it.
An average person with a stat of 10 would get a skill of 17 for easy, 16 for
average, 15 for hard and 11 for very hard (mental skills). Mathematics is a
MH skill - so your average Joe would have a skill of about 15 w/ a BS in
Math.
IMHO Trivial skills are usually 1/2 point. What ever the stats are
determines the actual skill. Hobbies can be quite high - just because it's a
hobby does not mean that you are no good at it :). Say Joe studies Greek as
a hobby - 2 hours a day 2 days a week. Started when he was 15, and he is now
30. Hobby skill would be 7 SP's... that's nothing to shake a stick at!
Professional skills depend on how long you have been doing it - take Joe
Average above - just got his degree in math - now advance him 15 years OTJ
experience - that's another (500 hours per year of work - again B82)
500*15=7500 hours of study and other 37 skill points!
All of this is before my first cup o' coffee and on the way out the door to
work :) but I think that it looks accurate to me.
- -----Original Message-----
> With the narrow, cheap skills that GT has - I would rather see
> charactors developed with a bunch of 1/2 skills that they are no
> good at,
I've practiced archery. I'm better than I was when completely new to
it. However, if I have 1/2 point in that then I'd have to put about
16-20 points in Mathematics by comparison since I've intensively
studied and practiced maths for much of the last ten years, and
currently doing research in it. That would give me a skill level of
about 25, and I'm not quite that good. Better to assume that I'm
still at default skill level in Bow.
> some higher ones (hobbys and what have you) and a few really high
> ones (career skills).
What sort of skill levels are you talking about here? Trivial skills
at 9-13, hobbies at 12-17, professional skills at 16-25? Lower,
higher?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 07:31:29 -0800
From: "tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@bigfoot.com>
Subject: RE: Silly characters
LOL that's a good idea
- -----Original Message-----
The best solution I know of for combat monsters in G:T is to add 'Freight
Handling-12' and 'HazMat-10' to their character sheet, with the explanation
that the unit they were assigned to did a lot of combat resupply (possibly
with a note saying the the namby-pamby Imperial Army uses civilian
contractors for that).
This way, they get something to do when shooting isnt happening, and have a
'real job' to fall back on if peace breaks out.
Ian Whitchurch
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 07:36:57 -0800
From: "tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@bigfoot.com>
Subject: RE: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
Fighting ships of the Imperium has a vessel that can tow a ton (lol) of
stuff - it's jump goes down. IMTU as long as you can power the lanth grid
some how, you can expand the jump bubble and tow something thru jump space.
With non-purpose build ships/tanks it gets really really dangerous tho..
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Timothy Little
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 10:49 PM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
On Tue, Dec 12, 2000 at 10:20:54PM -0800, tsykoduk wrote:
> I don't follow your logic here.
>
> Say, you have a Jump-6 100 ton ship. It uses 60 tons of fuel for a jump-6.
>
> If you add a 100 ton fuel tank to it (and it has to carry it thru jump)
then
> you cannot make a jump-6, because that J6 drive will only push 200 tons
J3.
I always thought that each drive was built for a specific maximum
volume. So that if you wanted to add a 100-ton fuel tank, you'd have
to upgrade the drive. Then again, I haven't read every supplement
ever printed.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so-
kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 08:13:29
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Re DD-214
At 04:43 PM 12/13/2000 -0000, you wrote:
>I thought that DD-214 was a US destroyer laid down in 1918 (Flush Decker
>type). I have not been able to find details of this ship but those with
>pennant numbers around it served in WW2. Anyone have any details?
It's also the _D_epartment of _D_efense Form number 214. Army forms are
DA-(number)
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 11:04:44 -0600
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
No Fair!
No Fair!
No Fair!
You are NOT ALLOWED to bait game mechanic grognards
like that and leave them hanging!! That is intentional infliction
of severe mental and emotional distress! People have been
known to come to blows over such. Witness the Half-Die
Donnybrook of 1997!
Now give!
For starters, what the heck does KB3 mean?
Kool Beans Three?
Krashl, Bash, Bonk & Bam?
Kill Bloo Three times?
I'm sure that several will be interested to see how this system
merges CT and T4 mechanics, given that the latter gives
characters much more skills than the former (1.25/year for T4,
0.25/year for CT after first term).
And given the history, and quality, of the real game mechanic
experten, I humbly suggest that you might want to wear a
cup. ;-)
bloo
Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:
> DaveShayne wrote:
>
> > There isn't really a defined non combat task system in CT.
>
> Just FYI, for those of you reading this threat...KB3 will fit perfectly
> into CT as a task system. In fact, KB3 will allow you to merge CT, MT,
> and T4 (By using the KB3 system of mechanics, you'll be able to use just
> about any supplement or adventure designed for those games
> interchangably--with little or no conversion.)
>
> It's in playtest now. I'll let you know more about it once I'm ready to
> unveil it.
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3383
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3384
Date: | 12/13/00 2:07:26 PM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, December 13 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3384
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
RE: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
Re: FW: what do you know about Rugby, Aussie? ;-)
Re: DnD Movie review
RE: DnD Movie review
Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
Re: Re DD-214
RE: FW: what do you know about Rugby, Aussie? ;-)
E-mail out of commission
Re: Spacefaring Powers
RE: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
Bits adventures (was Re: Another GT question...)
TEDs
FTL Physics Question
Re: FTL Physics Question
Re: FTL Physics Question
Re: FW: what do you know about Rugby, Aussie? ;-)
Task Systems and Heresy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 17:16:06 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
Gasp! I believe that Kenneth Bearden is attempting to convert himself into a
game mechanic through some strange, alchemical means. KB3 stands for Ken
Bearden 3! This kind of thing could shatter reality as we know it! Cool.
Dean
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Daniels [mailto:stevedaniels@portcaddo.com]
> Sent: 13 December 2000 17:05
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need
> help on CT
> task)
>
>
> No Fair!
> No Fair!
> No Fair!
>
> You are NOT ALLOWED to bait game mechanic grognards
> like that and leave them hanging!! That is intentional infliction
> of severe mental and emotional distress! People have been
> known to come to blows over such. Witness the Half-Die
> Donnybrook of 1997!
>
> Now give!
>
> For starters, what the heck does KB3 mean?
> Kool Beans Three?
> Krashl, Bash, Bonk & Bam?
> Kill Bloo Three times?
>
> I'm sure that several will be interested to see how this system
> merges CT and T4 mechanics, given that the latter gives
> characters much more skills than the former (1.25/year for T4,
> 0.25/year for CT after first term).
>
> And given the history, and quality, of the real game mechanic
> experten, I humbly suggest that you might want to wear a
> cup. ;-)
>
> bloo
>
>
> Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:
>
> > DaveShayne wrote:
> >
> > > There isn't really a defined non combat task system in CT.
> >
> > Just FYI, for those of you reading this threat...KB3 will
> fit perfectly
> > into CT as a task system. In fact, KB3 will allow you to
> merge CT, MT,
> > and T4 (By using the KB3 system of mechanics, you'll be
> able to use just
> > about any supplement or adventure designed for those games
> > interchangably--with little or no conversion.)
> >
> > It's in playtest now. I'll let you know more about it once
> I'm ready to
> > unveil it.
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 11:20:52 -0600
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: FW: what do you know about Rugby, Aussie? ;-)
Ah, Rugby. I'm joining a team next month. It will
be nice to puts the spikes on again and get some
scrums in.
Ob. trav.: IMTU, rugby is still a popular amateur
sport. At the dawn of the Rule of Man, many Vilani
were introduced to the game and quickly adopted
Ruugbiiunaan (Rugby Union - not League) as a game
of their own. It's mixture of communal and independent
action appealed strongly to Vilani culture.
bloo
(front row)
Derrick Jones wrote:
> oops didn't send this to the list as I thought I had. Maybe now you'll understand
> what Alan was referring to.
>
> derrick
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Derrick Jones [mailto:dojones.whitestar@btinternet.com]
> > Sent: 12 December 2000 21:40
> > To: 'Alan Bradley <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>'
> > Subject: what do you know about Rugby, Aussie? ;-)
> >
> >
> > Alan, (Apologies to those who don't quite share our passion
> > for this sport..
> > I shall only make this one off topic post)
> >
> > >No. The British are just really bad at Cricket and Rugby League, and
> > >therefore an inferior race, far below those that recognise Australian
> > >superiority by not playing the sacred games. : )
> > <snip>
> >
> > (First off, I'd not say the British are really bad, just not
> > quite as good as you guys
> > but #3 in the world isn't bad. I mean, it isn't as if we
> > invented the game or anything is it?)
> >
> > You confusing the British with the English, Alan? I seem to remember
> > that one little 'insignificant' Rugby League playing country
> > from Britain
> > certainly knocked the Aussies on their backs recently. (Had
> > you all worried
> > for at least 60 minutes of the game). The faces on the Aussie
> > players when
> > Briers plucked the ball away from Lockyear and then kicked
> > his second drop
> > goal - what a sight! Not bad for a team that the Aussie
> > pundits had written off
> > from day one as not even going to qualify from their group!
> >
> >
> >
> > >Oh, and Rugby League will re-unite with Rugby Union
> > ("Rugby"), giving a
> > >game which will be a major sport in both France and
> > Australia. (Distant
> > >sounds of bone-crunching collisions.) : )
> >
> > Are you really trying to get my back up? The two codes will
> > never merge. The
> > Rah Rah boys want to, simply to blot out the bad memories of
> > being the inferior
> > game for so long. Any true Rugby fan knows which is the
> > better game, and as
> > someone who has played both at Regimental and Corps level, I
> > can tell you
> > which is the hardest, most crunching...
> >
> > Pity that God's team can't open the invitation to Brisbane to
> > come to our
> > place for a night to remember in January, (we have to go to
> > Bolton instead)
> > cos you'd really see what British rugby is made of. And again
> > we'd see the
> > Mighty of Cunningham (The best No 9* in the game, bar none!)
> > knocking Aussies
> > out of the way left right and centre!
> >
> > Then again, being a Saints** supporter, I'm used to (b)eating
> > humble pie(s)!***
> > We'll see!
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Derrick
> >
> > Derrick Jones
> > St Helens
> > Lancashire UK
> > http://www.btinternet.com/~dojones.whitestar
> >
> > *Actually a No 9 is normally called a 'Hooker', but didn't
> > want to confuse anyone
> > into thinking we were discussing something else! ;-)
> >
> >
> > **St Helens RLFC
> > Superleague Champions 1996, 1999, 2000
> > (Follow the link on my Hobbies section of my website for more info)
> >
> >
> > *** There is a joke in there for RL fans.
> >
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 11:29:00 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: DnD Movie review
> I just got a review for the Dungeons and Dragons movie. Anyone interested?
I'm not sure I understand. Is it your review of the movie or are you going
to point us to someone else's review? If it's yours, then I would like to
hear it.
- -J. Jensen
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 17:29:06 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: DnD Movie review
Nah, someone elses. I live in the UK, so it'll be 2001 before it comes out
over here.
Dean
> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Jensen [mailto:cheeb0@hotmail.com]
> Sent: 13 December 2000 17:29
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: DnD Movie review
>
>
> > I just got a review for the Dungeons and Dragons movie.
> Anyone interested?
>
> I'm not sure I understand. Is it your review of the movie or
> are you going
> to point us to someone else's review? If it's yours, then I
> would like to
> hear it.
>
> -J. Jensen
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 09:56:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
Frank G. Pitt writes:
> Unfortunately, there is no logical reason why you shouldn't be allowed to
> do so (though I agree that there are game balance problems) , and the
> books say you can anyway. Not under drop tanks, but you can use the energy
> absorbed by a Black Globe to either power weapons or for jump.
The rules are vague on whether the ship also requires fuel. Based on the
BG formula, most ships can charge their own capacitors in about six hours,
so if a BG lets you jump without fuel _everyone_ would jump without fuel.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 13:01:47 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
Steve Daniels wrote:
> No Fair!
> No Fair!
> No Fair!
We never said life would be fair, rookie! <g>
> You are NOT ALLOWED to bait game mechanic grognards
> like that and leave them hanging!! That is intentional infliction
> of severe mental and emotional distress! People have been
> known to come to blows over such. Witness the Half-Die
> Donnybrook of 1997!
Argh! Don't start with that damn half-die again, I'd just about
expunged it from my memory.
> Now give!
> For starters, what the heck does KB3 mean?
> Kool Beans Three?
> Krashl, Bash, Bonk & Bam?
> Kill Bloo Three times?
Yeah, that's it! <g>
Bloo, if you remember the dreaded half-die wars, then you should
remember KB2...Ken Bearden's second task system...that eliminated
the foul implement, fixed the stat vs skill problem, and made
Traveller safe from all things evil. <g>
I rather suspect KB3 is Ken's next iteration.
> I'm sure that several will be interested to see how this system
> merges CT and T4 mechanics, given that the latter gives
> characters much more skills than the former (1.25/year for T4,
> 0.25/year for CT after first term).
Good point, but not beyond the great KB's mastery I'm sure! Ken,
tell us how you do it?
> And given the history, and quality, of the real game mechanic
> experten, I humbly suggest that you might want to wear a
> cup. ;-)
Ken can take it! He's a tough old veteran of the Task Wars.
Now as a heretic, I must include a little heresy in my post,
so...
In KB2 each skill level is multiplied by 3 for use in the
Stat+Skill Target Number. Instead of a flat multiplier, roll an
evil d4 for each skill level and add it to your Stat to produce a
Corrupt Target Number. Example: Sam Stupid has a Skill of 3 in
Tatting and an the controlling Attribute is Dexterity where he
has a 6. For a Formidable Tat Task Sam must roll lower than (3d4
= 1, 3, 2) + 6 = 12 on 5d6. There, I've introduced evil, pointy,
non-d6's *and* task systems into the same conversation, my karma
rises! Muhahaha!
Eris,
still a heretic, after all these years!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 12:03:27 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@aracnet.com>
Subject: Re: Re DD-214
>It's also the _D_epartment of _D_efense Form number 214. Army forms are
>DA-(number)
>--
>
>Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
More importantly it's the form for your discharge from the service!
Zane
- --
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 20:06:33 -0000
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RE: FW: what do you know about Rugby, Aussie? ;-)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Steve Daniels
> Sent: 13 December 2000 17:21
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: FW: what do you know about Rugby, Aussie? ;-)
>
>
> Ah, Rugby. I'm joining a team next month. It will
> be nice to puts the spikes on again and get some
> scrums in.
>
SPIKES !!! You play rugby in SPIKES ??? I got clobbered enough when
they were only using studs...
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 15:35:58 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: E-mail out of commission
The SJ Games ISP lost power today, so just about anything connected with SJ
Games is down -- the website, the illuminator, the on-line magazines -- until
they get power back.
I can still get e-mail at gdwgames, and I'm working out of home today, like
most of the Austin SJ games staff.
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 13:53:36 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Spacefaring Powers
From: Jones, Dean <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
>> British Isles = Group of Islands off France incl. Britian and Ireland
>> United Kingdom = Political state covering the British Isles
>> (Excluding Eire),
>> comprised of the Nations of England, Scotland, Wales,
>> Northern Ireland
>> and various smaller bits (Channel Islands etc)
>> Britain = The main Island in the British Isles
>> England = Dominant nation in the United Kingdom. Basically Britian
>> exluding Scotland and Wales.
>>
>
>A group is islands just off France?! Nonsense, sir, France is a large
>landmass just off the southern coast of England!
Isn't France on that landmass to the east of America, sir?
>OB-TRAV: Far from home, the party is confused by the mapping and
referencial
>conventions of a sub-sector wide polity which insists on describing the
>galaxy in relation to itself (eg Mora is in the Trailing Marches :) )
obtrav: Everyone who has pride in where they live does that. Though I
can see them using their own names for areas, in their own language. Think
about it like this, New Yorkers can say one thing & no one will know what
they are talking about, untill they write it down.
I bid you peace.
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"
"I don't need Romance. I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
USS Excaliber.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 16:12:13 -0500
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu>
Subject: RE: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
Having learned that breaking down the third die has his audiences up
in riotous arms, he's going on to break down the fourth wall...
Kenji
>Gasp! I believe that Kenneth Bearden is attempting to convert himself into a
>game mechanic through some strange, alchemical means. KB3 stands for Ken
>Bearden 3! This kind of thing could shatter reality as we know it! Cool.
>
>Dean
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Steve Daniels [mailto:stevedaniels@portcaddo.com]
>> Sent: 13 December 2000 17:05
>> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
>> Subject: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need
>> help on CT
>> task)
>>
>>
>> No Fair!
>> No Fair!
>> No Fair!
>>
>> You are NOT ALLOWED to bait game mechanic grognards
>> like that and leave them hanging!! That is intentional infliction
>> of severe mental and emotional distress! People have been
>> known to come to blows over such. Witness the Half-Die
>> Donnybrook of 1997!
>>
>> Now give!
>>
>> For starters, what the heck does KB3 mean?
>> Kool Beans Three?
>> Krashl, Bash, Bonk & Bam?
>> Kill Bloo Three times?
>>
>> I'm sure that several will be interested to see how this system
>> merges CT and T4 mechanics, given that the latter gives
>> characters much more skills than the former (1.25/year for T4,
>> 0.25/year for CT after first term).
>>
>> And given the history, and quality, of the real game mechanic
>> experten, I humbly suggest that you might want to wear a
>> cup. ;-)
>>
>> bloo
>>
>>
>> Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:
>>
>> > DaveShayne wrote:
>> >
>> > > There isn't really a defined non combat task system in CT.
>> >
>> > Just FYI, for those of you reading this threat...KB3 will
>> fit perfectly
>> > into CT as a task system. In fact, KB3 will allow you to
>> merge CT, MT,
>> > and T4 (By using the KB3 system of mechanics, you'll be
>> able to use just
>> > about any supplement or adventure designed for those games
>> > interchangably--with little or no conversion.)
>> >
>> > It's in playtest now. I'll let you know more about it once
>> I'm ready to
>> > unveil it.
>>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 20:27:32 +0000
From: Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Bits adventures (was Re: Another GT question...)
At 05:00 -0500 13/12/00, DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com> wrote:
> > That said, we may well look at a campaign book instead (something
> > like _Hard Times_ conceptually - an area of space as background with
> > linked adventures).
>Oooh, I like the sound of that
We aim to please - we do have options on the *whole* of Dagudashaag
from an author for the CT or M0 period. We are still debating whether
we should detail all the worlds or not (they are at present) before
we publish it. Personally, I prefer the detail a few like Rim of Fire
and the CT books rather then the fuller details of Behind the Claw.
But as yet undecided.
> > I'm curious how many TMLrs have actually bought the books as I notice
> > that not many of the responses about the adventures mentioned them.
> > Either they're forgettable or ....
>
>I got Space Dogs a month or so ago and I must say I was impressed.
>I'm not the kind of guy that usually uses prefabs but I can see running this
>one. When's SD2 comming out?
The release of that will depend on how we see the others go. Also, it
pushes the Astrographic boundaries a bit as lets just say that some
starships not unlike those in Independence Day and some militant
herbivores are involved. And did I mention the street party barbecues
to welcome them?
Dom ;-)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 13:33:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com>
Subject: TEDs
One thing that bothers me about the TNE background -
technologically-elevated dictators (TEDs) are portrayed as futuristic
equivalents of banana republic dictators. Their military forces are
mostly for show, and couldn't stand up to the righteous assault of the
Star Vikings.
There's only one thing wrong with this. These guys run entire worlds.
That makes them a whole lot more competent than the likes of Caesar,
Napolean or Hitler. To top it off, in many cases they've only recently
brought the whole world under their control, which should give them a
large cadre of combat-experienced officers and troops.
Also, only 70 years have passed since the fall of the Imperium. There
is still going to be a military tradition on many TED-controlled
worlds. Military officers will study Imperial-era campaigns (as well
as other historical campaigns) and should be at least conversant in
orbital assaults and counter-measures.
As for their space forces, technical services have historically been
the most competent branch of any military. For example, during the
Falkland Islands war, the Argentinian air force inflicted inordinate
casualties on their British enemies while the army, while making a good
showing, did not cover itself with glory. Yes, the Argentinian air
force suffered heavily during the war, but they considered themselves
an elite force and their morale never broke.
So, what if the vaunted Star Vikings launched an orbital assault
against a TED and found themselves up against the equivalent of the
Argentinian air force, who, despite losses, attempt to eradicate the
planethead the Vikings have established? What if the equivalent of a
Waffen SS Panzer division attempted to overrun the lodgement?
Why can't TEDs be competent?
=====
Gerry Harris
**********************************************************************************************
Æther Traveller — http://www.aethertraveller.com
Soldier's Companion — http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html
**********************************************************************************************
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war" — Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1
**********************************************************************************************
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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http://shopping.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 13:37:11 -0800 (PST)
From: AuricTech Shipyards <aurictech@esweeet.com>
Subject: FTL Physics Question
While reading commentary on the National Review Online site, I found the following interesting question in a column by NRO editor Jonah Goldberg:
(Speaking of physics. If there are any really smart physics types out there, could someone answer the following question. Imagine you have a rod — or some other object that isn't the name of one of Smither's kids — and it is perfectly rigid. Imagine it extends from here to Alderan (assuming it wasn't blown up by the Death Star). Now, my understanding of physics is that nothing can go faster than the speed of light. But if I have this perfectly rigid rod (no doubt the subtitle to more than one gay porn movie), and I press down on one end, shouldn't the other end of this (inanimate steel) rod move instantaneously? After all, if it is perfectly rigid it should allow force to flow from one end to the other perfectly. And if that is the case, isn't the force travelling faster than the speed of light? This question has bothered me for years. But the true test for you pocket-protector readers is not to give me an accurate answer, but to give me an answer I can both understand and t!
hat won't tire out my lips while I read it.)
Can any of our resident physicists answer this question?
FWIW, the original essay [which had precious little to do with physics] can be found at:
http://www.nationalreview.com/goldberg/goldberg121300.shtml
==
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/colverber/travler.html
_____________________________________________________________
Free eSweeet Mail - http://www.esweeet.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 13:46:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
Smithers doesn't have any kids. He's gay.
Rod is Flanders' son.
- --- AuricTech Shipyards <aurictech@esweeet.com> wrote:
> While reading commentary on the National Review Online site, I found
> the following interesting question in a column by NRO editor Jonah
> Goldberg:
>
> (Speaking of physics. If there are any really smart physics types out
> there, could someone answer the following question. Imagine you have
> a rod — or some other object that isn't the name of one of Smither's
> kids — and it is perfectly rigid. Imagine it extends from here to
> Alderan (assuming it wasn't blown up by the Death Star). Now, my
> understanding of physics is that nothing can go faster than the speed
> of light. But if I have this perfectly rigid rod (no doubt the
> subtitle to more than one gay porn movie), and I press down on one
> end, shouldn't the other end of this (inanimate steel) rod move
> instantaneously? After all, if it is perfectly rigid it should allow
> force to flow from one end to the other perfectly. And if that is the
> case, isn't the force travelling faster than the speed of light? This
> question has bothered me for years. But the true test for you
> pocket-protector readers is not to give me an accurate answer, but to
> give me an answer I can both understand and t!
> hat won't tire out my lips while I read it.)
>
> Can any of our resident physicists answer this question?
>
> FWIW, the original essay [which had precious little to do with
> physics] can be found at:
>
> http://www.nationalreview.com/goldberg/goldberg121300.shtml
>
> ==
> AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
> "Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
> Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
>
> http://www.geocities.com/colverber/travler.html
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Free eSweeet Mail - http://www.esweeet.com
=====
Gerry Harris
**********************************************************************************************
Æther Traveller — http://www.aethertraveller.com
Soldier's Companion — http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html
**********************************************************************************************
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war" — Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1
**********************************************************************************************
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 13:51:29 -0800
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
AuricTech Shipyards wrote:
> (Speaking of physics. If there are any really smart physics types out
there, could someone answer the following question. Imagine you have a rod -
or some other object that isn't the name of one of Smither's kids - and it
is perfectly rigid. Imagine it extends from here to Alderan (assuming it
wasn't blown up by the Death Star). Now, my understanding of physics is that
nothing can go faster than the speed of light. But if I have this perfectly
rigid rod (no doubt the subtitle to more than one gay porn movie), and I
press down on one end, shouldn't the other end of this (inanimate steel) rod
move instantaneously? After all, if it is perfectly rigid it should allow
force to flow from one end to the other perfectly. And if that is the case,
isn't the force travelling faster than the speed of light? This question has
bothered me for years. But the true test for you pocket-protector readers is
not to give me an accurate answer, but to give me an answer I can both
understand and t!
> hat won't tire out my lips while I read it.)
I will not claim to be a "really smart physics type," but I can easily
answer this one. You have rediscovered one of the side-effects of
relativity: that nothing can be perfectly rigid. Your analysis is perfectly
right. You just can't have rigid things.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 15:50:41 -0600
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: FW: what do you know about Rugby, Aussie? ;-)
Mark Preston wrote:
> >
> SPIKES !!! You play rugby in SPIKES ??? I got clobbered enough when
> they were only using studs...
Well, they aren't sharpened. They're actually studs but they
hurt like spikes, so I've always heard them called spikes.
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 16:01:57 -0600
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Task Systems and Heresy
Eris Reddoch wrote:
> In KB2 each skill level is multiplied by 3 for use in the
> Stat+Skill Target Number. Instead of a flat multiplier, roll an
> evil d4 for each skill level and add it to your Stat to produce a
> Corrupt Target Number. Example: Sam Stupid has a Skill of 3 in
> Tatting and an the controlling Attribute is Dexterity where he
> has a 6. For a Formidable Tat Task Sam must roll lower than (3d4
> = 1, 3, 2) + 6 = 12 on 5d6. There, I've introduced evil, pointy,
> non-d6's *and* task systems into the same conversation, my karma
> rises! Muhahaha!
Did you mean to say 1D4-1 per skill level?
Or maybe I've missed the segue from KB2 to KB2Heresy?
Is this KB2?
xD6 < (Skill Level * 3) + Stat
And this is KB2Heresy?
xD6 < (Skill level * D4) + Stat
My concern with the KB2H is that it requires two dice rolls
for everything. How does it handle opposed tasks?
bloo
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3384
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3385
Date: | 12/13/00 3:36:58 PM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, December 13 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3385
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: FTL Physics Question
Re: Silly Skills
Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
RE: TEDs
Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
Re: FTL Physics Question
RE: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
Re: FTL Physics Question
Re: TEDs
Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help onCT task)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 22:59:22 -0000
Re: "Dense, High" Atmospheres
Re: Task Systems and Heresy
Re: TEDs
Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
Re: "Dense, High" Atmospheres
Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
Re: FW: what do you know about Rugby, Aussie? ;-)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 17:09:01 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
>(Speaking of physics. If there are any really smart physics types out
>there, could someone answer the following question. Imagine you have a rod
>— or some other object that isn't the name of one of Smither's kids — and
>it is perfectly rigid.
Sounds kind of like the solution to the "irresistable force/immovable
object" problem:
1. First find an immovable object....
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 09:25:00 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Silly Skills
On Wed, Dec 13, 2000 at 07:29:26AM -0800, tsykoduk wrote:
> So... If I were to get a Bachelors in Mathematics, assuming 4 years to
> obtain, assuming 3 months off a year and assuming 6 hours a day study =
> about 4600 hours of study (not including weekends) ~ 23 SP. Not all of these
> would go into the primary skill (You have PE, and all that other general ed)
> I assume that 2/3 is towards the primary skill _group_.
So what do you get for 3 more years of study at the same rate,
concentrating purely on mathematics? And suppose you start with
Mathematical Ability or high IQ (or both)? I was *much* better than
average in mathematics and physics before starting university. You're
also neglecting the years of pre-university study.
I get around 36 SP in Mathematics for my own study history, and
assuming Mathematical Ability and IQ 12 that puts me at Mathematics
level 31. (My GURPS IQ should be higher by their text description,
but that plays even more hell with the skill system so 12 will do)
> An average person with a stat of 10 would get a skill of 17 for easy, 16 for
> average, 15 for hard and 11 for very hard (mental skills). Mathematics is a
> MH skill - so your average Joe would have a skill of about 15 w/ a BS in
> Math.
Average Joes don't usually even start university mathematics. If they
do, they're near the bottom of the class. They usually leave school
after year 10. Count on at least one of high IQ or mathematical
ability for the average mathematician.
> take Joe Average above - just got his degree in math - now advance
> him 15 years OTJ experience - that's another (500 hours per year of
> work - again B82) 500*15=7500 hours of study and other 37 skill
> points!
Putting me at Mathematics level 50 or so in 15 more years. Doesn't
this strike you as a little excessive? No matter what hours:points
ratio, I always get strange outcomes. Hence my search for a better
skill-cost system. In the interim, I feel that it's better to ignore
the trivial skills.
> All of this is before my first cup o' coffee and on the way out the
> door to work :) but I think that it looks accurate to me.
Accurate to the rules, yes. Accurate to reality, not remotely.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 09:25:44 +1100
From: Jason Anderson <jason_ga@southcom.com.au>
Subject: Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
>Ken can take it! He's a tough old veteran of the Task Wars.
You know, its just my luck. I unsubscribed just after a batch of Task
Wars around 2 years ago (I didn't have a game of Traveller which I
was running/playing in, and had also switched systems and setting, so
I didn't see much point in staying on the TML). I resubscribe a few
days ago (since I'm just starting up a Traveller PBeM) and the Task
Wars are threatening to reappear! =)
Hmmm, Second Task War? No, there have probably been a war or two
since I left. Third Task War? Since the fighting hasn't started yet,
how about the Fourth (also known as False) Task War?
And yes, my campaign will be set in the Spinward Marches - how did
you guess? =)
Cheers,
Jason
- --
Jason Anderson
* Unofficial CORPS FAQ
* http://www.antcrc.utas.edu.au/~jason_ga/corps/faq.html
* A CORPS Compendium - an archive of material for the CORPS RPG
* http://www.antcrc.utas.edu.au/~jason_ga/corps/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 09:24:38 +1100
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au>
Subject: RE: TEDs
I think the competant TED's go on to form pocket empires. Like Kide,
Soolee.... and ..err.. Oriflamme
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gerry Harris [mailto:harrisgwjr@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 8:33 AM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: TEDs
>
>
> One thing that bothers me about the TNE background -
> technologically-elevated dictators (TEDs) are portrayed as futuristic
> equivalents of banana republic dictators. Their military forces are
> mostly for show, and couldn't stand up to the righteous assault of the
> Star Vikings.
>
> There's only one thing wrong with this. These guys run
> entire worlds.
> That makes them a whole lot more competent than the likes of Caesar,
> Napolean or Hitler. To top it off, in many cases they've
> only recently
> brought the whole world under their control, which should give them a
> large cadre of combat-experienced officers and troops.
>
> Also, only 70 years have passed since the fall of the Imperium. There
> is still going to be a military tradition on many TED-controlled
> worlds. Military officers will study Imperial-era campaigns (as well
> as other historical campaigns) and should be at least conversant in
> orbital assaults and counter-measures.
>
> As for their space forces, technical services have historically been
> the most competent branch of any military. For example, during the
> Falkland Islands war, the Argentinian air force inflicted inordinate
> casualties on their British enemies while the army, while
> making a good
> showing, did not cover itself with glory. Yes, the Argentinian air
> force suffered heavily during the war, but they considered themselves
> an elite force and their morale never broke.
>
> So, what if the vaunted Star Vikings launched an orbital assault
> against a TED and found themselves up against the equivalent of the
> Argentinian air force, who, despite losses, attempt to eradicate the
> planethead the Vikings have established? What if the equivalent of a
> Waffen SS Panzer division attempted to overrun the lodgement?
>
> Why can't TEDs be competent?
>
>
> =====
> Gerry Harris
> **************************************************************
> ********************************
> Æther Traveller — http://www.aethertraveller.com
> Soldier's Companion —
> http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/socc
omp1.html
************************************************************************
**********************
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war" — Antony, "Julius Caesar,"
Act 3, Scene 1
************************************************************************
**********************
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 17:42:03 -0500
From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
Jason Anderson wrote:
> Hmmm, Second Task War? No, there have probably been a war or two
>since I left. Third Task War? Since the fighting hasn't started yet,
>how about the Fourth (also known as False) Task War?
Obviously it's going to be the Nth Task War. And N will be either just skill, skill + stat/5, skill + stat, skill*3 + stat, skill*D4 + stat, or possibly the other, mysterious as-yet-to-be-revealed formula known only as The KB3. And one last thing, any method for determining N in which lower is better is just plain WRONG!
Task-flamethrower primed and ready,
Trent
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 09:45:04 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
On Wed, Dec 13, 2000 at 01:37:11PM -0800, AuricTech Shipyards wrote:
> Imagine you have a rod and it is perfectly rigid.
Perfect rigidity is (almost) incompatible with relativity. Certainly
no physical material can be perfectly rigid. Atoms are held in place
by electrical forces. Electrical forces transmit disturbances at (at
most) the speed of light. In fact, light is a transmitted electrical
disturbance.
Now, you might be able to imagine something not made out of atoms or
anything else held together by any known forces (which are all limited
to the speed of light). Suppose there is some unknown force that acts
instantaneously.
Then relativity says that you can easily arrange things so that time
travel takes place. This opens all sorts of cans of worms (don't even
mention wormholes!) Physicists don't generally like worms, and prefer
them to stay in the can.
Of course, relativity does not hold in Traveller, so no mass worm
exodus occurs despite its FTL travel. I have run a GURPS game with
both FTL and relativity, but I was explicitly prepared for things to
get very messy as a result.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 09:35:51 +1100
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au>
Subject: RE: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
Won't the third task war be so destructive that nothing will survive?
Won't it bring on the dreaded 'RPG WInter'?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com [mailto:trentfs@ix.netcom.com]
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 9:42 AM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help
> on CT task)
>
>
>
> Jason Anderson wrote:
> > Hmmm, Second Task War? No, there have probably been a war or two
> >since I left. Third Task War? Since the fighting hasn't started yet,
> >how about the Fourth (also known as False) Task War?
>
> Obviously it's going to be the Nth Task War. And N will be
> either just skill, skill + stat/5, skill + stat, skill*3 +
> stat, skill*D4 + stat, or possibly the other, mysterious
> as-yet-to-be-revealed formula known only as The KB3. And one
> last thing, any method for determining N in which lower is
> better is just plain WRONG!
>
> Task-flamethrower primed and ready,
>
> Trent
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 14:53:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 13:37:11 -0800 (PST)
> From: AuricTech Shipyards <aurictech@esweeet.com>
>
> Imagine you have a rod [...]— and it is perfectly rigd.
[snip]
This is a well-known Special Relativity paradox. As it turns out, you
*can't* have a perfectly rod. Consider that a shove on one end of the rod
has to be transmitted mechanically through the rod, and that this
transmission cannot proceed faster than the speed of sound in the rod. If
you try to push the end faster than that, it breaks, bends, or squishes.
And SR tells us that the speed of sound in a material cannot exceed c.
See the Relativity FAQ at:
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/relativity.html
- --
| Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
--*-- "The hills are burning, and the wind is raging; and the clock
| strikes midnight in the Garden of Allah." - Don Henley
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 22:51:32 GMT
From: "John G. Wood" <elvwood@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: TEDs
Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com> wrote:
> One thing that bothers me about the TNE background -
> technologically-elevated dictators (TEDs) are portrayed as futuristic
> equivalents of banana republic dictators. Their military forces are
> mostly for show, and couldn't stand up to the righteous assault of the
> Star Vikings.
>
> There's only one thing wrong with this. These guys run entire worlds.
> That makes them a whole lot more competent than the likes of Caesar,
> Napolean or Hitler.
Not necessarily. Many worlds have populations smaller than the lands
controlled by your three ancient Solomani example leaders. I haven't
checked the examples in the RCES material (I don't do TNE) but this
might cover many cases.
[Snip]
> Why can't TEDs be competent?
Out-of-game reason: If they were competent, they couldn't be taken
out by a bunch of PCs.
In-game reason #1: History is written by the winners (in this case,
the RC). We only get to hear about the cases where they swept in and
cleaned out the nasty, morally-bankrupt and inept blighters (and how
many of them were as bad as the RC's PR department made out, anyway?)
I imagine there were other campaigns that were much less clear-cut
victories, dragging on for a long time and full of the ambiguous
actions you get in "proper" wars.
In-game reason #2: The TED's armed forces are largely tied up keeping
the populace under control. Terrorists/freedom fighters will take the
opportunity afforded by a strike from space to make the TED's
soldiers' lives a misery, taking the pressure off the arses.
I'm sure the list can come up with more.
John
http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 16:55:57 -0600
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help onCT task)
Jason Anderson wrote:
> You know, its just my luck. I unsubscribed just after a batch of Task
> Wars around 2 years ago (I didn't have a game of Traveller which I
> was running/playing in, and had also switched systems and setting, so
> I didn't see much point in staying on the TML). I resubscribe a few
> days ago (since I'm just starting up a Traveller PBeM) and the Task
> Wars are threatening to reappear! =)
I was watching you, Jason, waiting for you to resub. I just resubbed
myself...
No, really. We've got a lot of opinionated people here, but I don't
think anyone's looking for another big Task War--me included.
When I'm done with KB3, I'll release it to the TML...hopefully to open up
civil discussion.
That's the plan, anyway.
We'll see how it goes!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 22:59:22 -0000
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net>
Subject: Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 22:59:22 -0000
>>
You know, its just my luck. I unsubscribed just after a batch of Task
Wars around 2 years ago (I didn't have a game of Traveller which I
was running/playing in, and had also switched systems and setting, so
I didn't see much point in staying on the TML). I resubscribe a few
days ago (since I'm just starting up a Traveller PBEM) and the Task
Wars are threatening to reappear! =)
<<
hithere, any chance of getting in on the game?
Mike
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net
ICQ#27333894
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 13:43:56 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: "Dense, High" Atmospheres
In mail you write:
> I'm not sure I understand what is meant by a "Dense, High" atmosphere.
> Just how dense is such an atmosphere in the "unbreathable" regions? Are
> we supposed to envision a pressurized inferno-planet like Venus, only
> blessed with more oxygen and (very) tall mountains? Or is the atmosphere
> in low-lying regions "unbreathable" for subtler reasons?
Poul Anderson (and others) have written stories set on such planets.
Niven's colony on Mt. Lookithat on Plateau is just the most extreme
example.
MacApps(sp)' "Prisoners of the Sky" (which is the source for the
old JTAS article about the planet Victoria) had a somewhat different
setup. There was some atmospheric gas that was toxic at higher partial
pressures. At the higher altitudes it wasn't toxic.
And Anderson had a world (sorry can't recall the name *or* the book's
title) where the gravity was about 1.5 g, and the problem was that
at the higher pressures in the lowlands oxygen (and nitrogen?) reached
toxic levels for humans. Remember, what's important isn't the
*percentage* of a gas, but the *partial pressure (ie percentage of the
gas times the absolute pressure).
You could spend some time down in the lowlands, but without special
"filter" gear to reduce the partial pressure of O2 (and maybe N2) you'd
start having seizures and worse as the oxygen damaged your nervous
system.
This sort of "dense, high" atmosphere is fun because not only is a
there a *gradual* change from "safe" to "toxic", but because different
people will have somewhat different tolerance ranges.
Joe may be fine down to halfway thru the transition zone, while Jake
may start having problems before he even *gets to* the transition zone.
This is similar to the way some folks don't get "altitude sickness"
until they are *way* up in the mountains, and others can't live for
extanded periods more than a couple thousand feet above sealevel
(Virginia Heinlein is one of those, and that's why the Heinleins had to
move from Colorado Springs to California).
I suspect (our resident medic will have to confirm or deny it) that the
same factors that make for resistance (or susceptibilty) to altitude
sickness are also responsible for problems with higher than normal O2
partial pressures.
So a woman who can handle O2 partial pressures of 2 psi (*way* up in
the Andes or Himilayas) with no problem, would have real trouble
dealing with 3.5 psi on the way to the lowlands on a "dense,high"
planet. But the person who gets sick in the higher foothils on earth
might by able to go well into the "danger" zone with no problems.
I mention this last so that any ref who decides to assign one of these
adavantages/disadvantages to a PC will know that they aren't likely to
suffer from *both* "altitude sickness" *and* "lowlander syndrome". Or
to be resistant to both.
And, as a matter of fact, "thin" and "thick" atmospheres may have
detrimental effects on some characters.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 17:07:08 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Task Systems and Heresy
Steve Daniels wrote:
> Eris Reddoch wrote:
> > In KB2 each skill level is multiplied by 3 for use in the
> > Stat+Skill Target Number. Instead of a flat multiplier, roll an
> > evil d4 for each skill level and add it to your Stat to produce a
> > Corrupt Target Number. Example: Sam Stupid has a Skill of 3 in
> > Tatting and an the controlling Attribute is Dexterity where he
> > has a 6. For a Formidable Tat Task Sam must roll lower than (3d4
> > = 1, 3, 2) + 6 = 12 on 5d6. There, I've introduced evil, pointy,
> > non-d6's *and* task systems into the same conversation, my karma
> > rises! Muhahaha!
> Did you mean to say 1D4-1 per skill level?
How dare he question my Mullah's kaboola! No, I meant 1d4 * Skill
Level...and yes, I know the EV of a d4 is 2.5, while the EV of
a...spit...d3 is 2.0...but to get to KB2's 3 you need to roll a d5, and
that would be a twice cursed half-d10!!!
> Or maybe I've missed the segue from KB2 to KB2Heresy?
>
> Is this KB2?
> xD6 < (Skill Level * 3) + Stat
Yep, that's it. The skill level * 3 is done once at the end of CharGen.
I think Ken called the result Skill Points. During play you improved
your Skill Points, with Experience Points. Tatting-3 9 would be on the
character sheet. The level is 3, the number you use is 9.
> And this is KB2Heresy?
> xD6 < (Skill level * D4) + Stat
Well, you *could* do it that way...if you're a Holy Roller, but the LaZ
sect that I belong to just rolls once...<g>...at the end of CharGen to
get the actual "Skill Points" that will be used for all future rolls.
Say Sam's has Tat-3 at the end of character generation, at that point
his PC rolls 3 d4's and records the total on his sheet. It would be
recorded something like this...
Tat-3 6.0
...as Sam earned EP's in Tatting his score would go up to 6.1, 6.2,
6.3... When it hits 6.7, he would have improved enough to change his
Skill Point in Tatting to 7.0 on his sheet. The Tat-3 part never changes
during play. This allows you to use the actual skill level for those
times you might need to, like using the Broker level on the Price/Cost
tables.
> My concern with the KB2H is that it requires two dice rolls
> for everything.
Ah, that indicates you, too, are a potential member of the LaZ sect!
Death to the Holy Rollers and the fanatic Table Readers!
>How does it handle opposed tasks?
Aside to the gallery, "I can't believe he's taking me seriously!"
Back to Bloo, "Opposition is the sound of one hand tatting, Grasshopper,
but if you *must* know..."
Both sides roll the task.
If
only one succeeds, he is the winner
else if
both succeed
if
each have the same margin of success, the result is a tie
else if
one succeeds by larger margin, the result is that one is winner
else if
both fail
if
we can continue, the matter is unsettled and we iterate
else if
we can't iterate
if
each have the same margin of failure, the result is a tie
else if
one fails by a smaller margin, the result is that one is the
winner.
...you *did* ask. <g>
Example: Sam and Sally have a canoe race. Sam rolls 14 against his 12
Target number and fails. Sally rolls a 11 against her 10 and also fails.
Although, neither did much credit to the world of canoeing, Sally edged
out Sam by 1...nose, paddle, or however you measure close canoe races.
Eris,
Who is properly pumped up to go back to grading final exams now. Bring
those tests on! Muhahaha!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 12:10:05 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: TEDs
On 13 Dec 2000, at 22:51, John G. Wood wrote:
> In-game reason #1: History is written by the winners (in this case,
> the RC). We only get to hear about the cases where they swept in and
> cleaned out the nasty, morally-bankrupt and inept blighters (and how
> many of them were as bad as the RC's PR department made out, anyway?)
> I imagine there were other campaigns that were much less clear-cut
> victories, dragging on for a long time and full of the ambiguous
> actions you get in "proper" wars.
Also the RCES doesn't go after TEDs it doesn't think it can beat, it just
steals stuff from them with a lot of careful planning and a very fast raid. The
really though ones it doesn't even do that to, it just watches them carefully.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 17:11:46 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
Paul Harris wrote:
>
> Won't the third task war be so destructive that nothing will survive?
> Won't it bring on the dreaded 'RPG WInter'?
Oh, puleeese!!! With all the hot air we generate? No RPG Winter here!
Eris
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 12:14:45 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: "Dense, High" Atmospheres
On 13 Dec 2000, at 13:43, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> And Anderson had a world (sorry can't recall the name *or* the book's
> title)
_Ensign Flandry_, and the planet _may_ have been Starkad.
> where the gravity was about 1.5 g, and the problem was that
> at the higher pressures in the lowlands oxygen (and nitrogen?) reached
> toxic levels for humans.
It was the Oxygen levels. Over 2 atmospheres partial pressure Oxygen is
throughly toxic to humans, which is why WWII-era pure O2 rebreather gear had an
absolute depth limit of 30 feet.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 17:15:49 -0600
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
Steve Daniels wrote:
> Now give!
>
> For starters, what the heck does KB3 mean?
>
> Kill Bloo Three times?
I like that one!
> I'm sure that several will be interested to see how this system
> merges CT and T4 mechanics, given that the latter gives
> characters much more skills than the former (1.25/year for T4,
> 0.25/year for CT after first term).
The KB3 system is a rules system--but I'm not doing a chargen system (because
the CT/MT/T4 chargen systems are not broken).
The CT/MT/T4 chargen systems are, in my opinion, some of the best ever created
for an rpg (kudos to Marc, Loren, et. al.). Those systems are waaayyy more
than just character creation--they're a short-hand means of adventuring.
When you get done rolling up a CT/MT/T4 character, you know SOOOO much about
the guy. It's so much better than a point based system (like GURPS) or a
"standard" chargen set up (like what D&D and STAR WARS has).
You basically "play out" that character's background, going through the
CT/MT/T4 system. I can't say enough about it. More games should have that
kind of chargen system--if only for the reason that it adds so much to role
playing, knowing that much about the character's background.
As for your question....
KB3 is designed to be used with "classic" Traveller characters--that is,
characters who have stats that run, typically, 2-15, and skills that run 0-6
or so (maybe higher...higher is OK too).
So, in using KB3, you can generate a character using any of the CT/MT/T4
methods--they're all basically the same.
Yes, there is a skill difference (the # of skills you get), but this is easily
fixed. I'm going to have a note on this in the KB3 write up. Characters
generated with 4 yr CT or the 4 yr method in MT can easily be used with
characters generated with T4 or the advanced 1yr method in MT.
Basically, advanced chargen in CT, MT, and the T4 4 yr method will give you
all comparable characters. In each of those systems, you basically get 1
skill per year.
So, all that really needs fixing, in order to use these chargen systems
inter-changably, is the 4 yr chargen rules in CT and MT. And, there, all you
have to do is give your players more rolls for skills (allow them a try at 4
skills per term instead of 1).
Now, in my write up on this in KB3, there are some other issues to address
(like, what do I roll? Do I have to roll survival more than once per 4 year
term? What about the 2 skills per year given to Scouts?).
I'll address all of those things when KB3 comes out.
> And given the history, and quality, of the real game mechanic
> experten, I humbly suggest that you might want to wear a
> cup. ;-)
No lie there!
Why do you think I'm playtesting the heck out of KB3 before I release anything
about it?
I want to make sure the damn thing really works the way I think it does BEFORE
I get grilled by my esteemed Traveller gurus and peers here on the TML!
Kenneth.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 12:18:55 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: FW: what do you know about Rugby, Aussie? ;-)
On 13 Dec 2000, at 15:50, Steve Daniels wrote:
>
>
> Mark Preston wrote:
>
> > >
> > SPIKES !!! You play rugby in SPIKES ??? I got clobbered enough when
> > they were only using studs...
>
> Well, they aren't sharpened. They're actually studs but they
> hurt like spikes, so I've always heard them called spikes.
Over here they're called 'sprigs'. I thought that's what everyone called them.
And yes, they hurt like spikes. Before the new wimpified rules came in and
rucking was fiarly unrestrained it wasn't that uncommon for grudge matches (NZ
vs France, for example) to end up with both teams short a couple of players
because of injuries (that's allowing for reserves) such as sliced open
cheekbones, etc. (not to mention bitten ears, gouged eyes and mashed noses).
- --
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3385
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, December 13 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3386
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
Re: TEDs
Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link
Re: Spacefaring Powers (was: "The Solomani Rim...")
Re: Another GT question...
Re: Spacefaring Powers (was: "The Solomani Rim...")
Re: TEDs
Re: Task Systems and Heresy
Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
Re: Task Systems and Heresy
Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
re: BITS adventures...
Re: Another GT question...
Re: TEDs
Re: Task Systems and Heresy
RE: DnD Movie review
Re: "Dense, High" Atmospheres
Re: TEDs
OT: New DUNE series of novels
Re: TEDs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 17:23:21 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
trentfs@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> Jason Anderson wrote:
> > Hmmm, Second Task War? No, there have probably been a war or two
> >since I left. Third Task War? Since the fighting hasn't started yet,
> >how about the Fourth (also known as False) Task War?
> Obviously it's going to be the Nth Task War.
LOL! Yep, the Nth Task War it is....however, I doubt seriously it will
be the *last* Task War. <g>
"there's no war here...move along!"
> And N will be either just skill, skill + stat/5, skill + stat,
> skill*3 + stat, skill*D4 + stat, or possibly the other, mysterious
> as-yet-to-be-revealed formula known only as The KB3.
You left out all the variations on the divide by that pop up. I think
skill + stat/3 is quite popular in some circles.
> And one last thing, any method for determining N in which
> lower is better is just plain WRONG!
That lets GURPS out then. <g>
You know, I can go either way on the higher or lower debate, makes me
bi-directional I guess, but I do agree that higher does just plain
*feel* better. Bigger just *feels* better! Ooops, did I just write that?
> Task-flamethrower primed and ready,
"These aren't the posts you're looking for, there's no flame war
here...move along."
Eris,
chunneling the farce while looking for any reason to avoid grading
these papers!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 18:32:03 -0500
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net>
Subject: Re: TEDs
Regarding TEDs I have an interesting book to recommend, "The Social History
of the Machinegun". I read it years ago and do not have a copy but as an
analysis of the machinegun as an instrument of the direct application of
colonial power it is quite interesting.
Kipling wrote something to the effect of "Thank God we have Vickers and they
do not." I personally make a great distinction between the application of
technological superiority to an indigenous lower tech society ala the
English in the rescue mission to save Gordon in the Sudan and WWI trench
warfare in France against European equals. Thus a TED who can kick the
locals about just might be no match for a determined foe of equal or higher
tech level who has better access to spares. In such cases I suggest that
logistics will carry the day in a prolonged campaign. In such case the TED
would be well advised to cut a deal and share the pie.
Dan
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 10:28:30 +1000
From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au
Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:
>Matter of fact, that why the *original* write-up for jump tanks had you
>using the fuel from them and *then* jumping *after* blowing the tanks
>free of the ship.
I wasn't aware that there was dissenting write-up in canon that says that
jump tanks are discarded AFTER jumping. Where is it?
Graeme
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 23:40:32 GMT
From: TML@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)
Subject: Re: Spacefaring Powers (was: "The Solomani Rim...")
"John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu> writes:
>Is there *anything*, by the way, that
>could (plausibly) give the British monarchy a more substantial role in
>actual government?
If there were a dead heat between the rivals for the post of Prime
Minister, the Queen would still have the authority and responsibility
to appoint her preferred candidate to the job... However, that would
be a one-off decision, not continuing power.
The monarch can still wield influence behind the scenes, since she has
unrestricted access to all Government papers and information, and has
the right to summon the Prime Minister for consultations. If,
theoretically, you got a monarch who was particularly capable,
intelligent, and forceful, they might be able to turn this role into
more than just a nominal one.
And, of course, there's the doomsday scenario - if someone blew up the
House of Commons one day (heh - just got Echelon's interest there...)
the Queen would still be there to provide a legitimate focus of
authority for the armed forces and other services...
On the other hand, considering that Britain has just removed power
from the hereditary peerage in the House of Lords after 800+ years,
and that opinion polls show that the reason most pro-monarchists
support the institution is that "it's good for the tourist trade", I
somehow find it hard to imagine the British monarchy returning to
actual power.
In fact, it would be most ironic if Britain became a republic while
Australia still remained a monarchy...
Stephen
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 23:40:34 GMT
From: TML@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)
Subject: Re: Another GT question...
Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> writes:
>I'm curious how many TMLrs have actually bought the books as I notice
>that not many of the responses about the adventures mentioned them.
>Either they're forgettable or ....
Well, I came across the BITS books at my F-fairly-LGS recently
(Playing Games, near the British Museum) and two of them interested me
enough to actually buy - Space Dogs and the K-wotsit Incident. So you
can mark me down as one...
Personally, I find adventures are sometimes even better than
sourcebooks in providing *background information* for a campaign -
instead of a fairly dry recitation of facts, they actually show you
the kind of situations characters in that universe will get to face,
and bring them to life for you.
Stephen
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 23:40:36 GMT
From: TML@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)
Subject: Re: Spacefaring Powers (was: "The Solomani Rim...")
We do all this to confuse foreigners, you know...
"Great Britain" is a geographical term for the biggest island in the
British Isles.
The "United Kingdom", or UK, is the correct term for the political
entity that covers Great Britain, Northern Ireland, and their offshore
islands.
"Britain" is an unofficial but widely-used synonym for the UK.
(compare "America" as a synonym for the USA).
"Little Britain", to confirm Antony's point, was a historical
reference to Britanny in France, which was settled by British refugees
in the 5th century AD.
As for England, Scotland, Wales and NI, they could be loosely compared
to the states in a federal system, except that England is
disproportionately large (about 75-80% of the British population, I
think) and for historical reasons the component regions have differing
rights, customs and even laws (Scottish law is entirely different to
English law). However, any tendency to confuse the terms British and
English will be quickly stopped, the first time you call a Scot
English...
Stephen
- - Just to confuse things even more, the Channel Islands are not part
of the United Kingdom - they actually form part of the historic
Kingdom of France, and are ruled by their feudal overlord Elizabeth
Windsor in her capacity as Duke (Duchess?) of Normandy...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 12:43:47 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: TEDs
On 13 Dec 2000, at 18:32, Daniel Phelps wrote:
> Regarding TEDs I have an interesting book to recommend, "The Social History of
> the Machinegun". I read it years ago and do not have a copy but as an analysis
> of the machinegun as an instrument of the direct application of colonial power
> it is quite interesting.
It is indeed.
> Kipling wrote something to the effect of "Thank God we have Vickers and they do
> not."
I think that was Haliare Belloc (sp?), not Kipling.
> I personally make a great distinction between the application of
> technological superiority to an indigenous lower tech society ala the English in
> the rescue mission to save Gordon in the Sudan and WWI trench warfare in France
> against European equals. Thus a TED who can kick the locals about just might
> be no match for a determined foe of equal or higher tech level who has better
> access to spares. In such cases I suggest that logistics will carry the day in
> a prolonged campaign. In such case the TED would be well advised to cut a deal
> and share the pie.
Not only that, but a TED's equipment is likely to have rather large holes, such
as lots of missiles, but only a single old EMS array for targetting, or lots of
fixed artillery but no decent gravitics. This sort of weakness is explictly the
sort of thing the coalition looked for and explioted.
It's also worth remembering that practice in putting down peasant uprisings and
dealing with low-tech guerillas is not of that much use against a higher tech
opponent with the advantage of the high ground, surprise and (probably) local
aero-space superiority.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 10:46:14 +1100
From: Phill Webb <pwebbtrav@yarranet.net.au>
Subject: Re: Task Systems and Heresy
Jason Anderson wrote:
> Hmmm, Second Task War? No, there have probably been a war or two
> since I left. Third Task War? Since the fighting hasn't started yet,
> how about the Fourth (also known as False) Task War?
trentfs@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> Obviously it's going to be the Nth Task War.
[Sensing the impending Task War an oddball faction of Heretics makes an
early strike hoping the bigger task systems won't want to put any of
their forces towards preventing the damage.]
Personally I use Fudge - http://www.io.com/~sos/fudge.html
for my Traveller games.
My Character Creation system is all that's on the web, and that needs
updating too but you'll get the idea.
http://www.yarranet.net.au/phill/fudge/traveller_char.html
To be even more heretical I use my own Attributes and convert things
like Social into Gifts.
Fudge has a simple task mechanic and it's 7 levels map easily onto
Traveller skills when converting.
And no Attribute + Skill linking, which is bliss in my view.
So Eris, have I been heretical enough to be disowned by the heretics?
Phill
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 17:49:38 -0600
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
Eris Reddoch wrote:
> Argh! Don't start with that damn half-die again, I'd just about
> expunged it from my memory.
Rest assured that KB3 has no half-die. The system uses only 6 siders.
You'll be able to use characters generated from CT, MT, or T4 (see my
notes on this in the other post). Skills and Stats are weighted
properly (a big issue in my T4 fix, KB2.0. as Eris stated).
And, you'll be able to use KB3 with just about ANY Traveller version
(even GURPS and TNE). You can use GURPS/TNE sourcebooks and adventures
for your background, simply using KB3 as your rule system.
DMs in CT/MT/T4 will remain the same (if you get a +1DM for something in
those games, you'll get a +1DM with KB3--the "value" of the +1 will net
you the same benefit).
Also, there is no multiplication in this one (like the "experience"
figure in KB2.0). KB3 is mostly an "addition" system (you either add to
your throw, or you add to the difficulty), although you will see a
little "subtraction" (mostly from the occassional negative DM to a
throw).
KB3 is a simple system. But, it will give you outcomes that are just as
detailed as what you get if you were playing with standard CT
rules....or using the MT task system...or using T4 as is...or even
KB2.0.
I believe that rules should be simple, model reality well, give you a
detailed outcome, and allow you to focus on role playing (not "roll
playing", where you spend a lot of time figuring mechanics instead of
playing the game).
I like what WotC did with the new edition of D&D. The d20 system fits
that game well (D&D has always been a complicated system).
But, what turns me off about it is that there are too many "what if"
modifiers. They bog the game down. You get plus this and minus that
under these conditions...but if this happens, your rolled is modified
differently...and if this third situation comes up, you're going to have
to roll...
That's way to much to figure in a game. It reminds me of the old days
when games used a butt-load of charts, and everytime someone rolled, you
had to look up what the result meant. I do like d20...but I like it for
the D&D game only. It seems a "step back" in the evolution of game
systems over the years.
In KB3, you roll one time (whether a combat task roll or a regular task
roll). That one roll will tell you if you were successful, and if you
were, how good you did.
In combat, the one task roll "to hit" in KB3 will tell you if you hit,
where you hit, and how well you hit.
That one KB3 dice roll will answer ALL of these questions: Was the toss
a Success? Was it a Greater Success? Was it a Marginal Success? Was
it a Failure? Was it a Greater Failure? Was it a Fumble?
And, in KB3, there's a new distinction between Stat and Skill. Gone are
the days of T4 (and what I've seen on T5) where Skill is ALL POWERFUL
and stat means little.
In KB3, the higher your character's skill level, the more likely he will
be successful on his task throw. Your character's stat, on the other
hand (the stat that governs the skill you just used for your task
throw), will govern how well you did on that throw if you were
successful.
I think you'll like the system. Let me playtest the damn thing and work
out an bugs...
> Now as a heretic, I must include a little heresy in my post,
> so...
That's why I love ya, Eris.
(I still want to be a heretic too)
> In KB2 each skill level is multiplied by 3 for use in the
> Stat+Skill Target Number. Instead of a flat multiplier, roll an
> evil d4 for each skill level and add it to your Stat to produce a
> Corrupt Target Number. Example: Sam Stupid has a Skill of 3 in
> Tatting and an the controlling Attribute is Dexterity where he
> has a 6. For a Formidable Tat Task Sam must roll lower than (3d4
> = 1, 3, 2) + 6 = 12 on 5d6. There, I've introduced evil, pointy,
> non-d6's *and* task systems into the same conversation, my karma
> rises! Muhahaha!
I wrote up something to this effect for use with KB2.0. I don't use
d4's (of course!), but you can alter the x3 multiplier for the KB2.0
experience figure (which is, basically, what Eris is doing here).
I think it's a bit too complicated (and if it wasn't, it wouldn't
heresy, would it?), but the "official" KB2.0 right up on this can be
found at the bottom of the KB2.0 rules system. Jeff Z. has done a
fantastic job maintaining the KB2.0 file on his FREELANCE TRAVELLER
site. You can read and download it from there, if you are someone
playing T4, using KB2.0, who thinks this type of "Aptitude" tweaking is
a good idea in your game.
Check it out on Freelance Traveller.
Kenneth.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 15:58:31 -0800
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: Re: Task Systems and Heresy
> Personally I use Fudge - http://www.io.com/~sos/fudge.html
> for my Traveller games.
>
> My Character Creation system is all that's on the web, and that needs
> updating too but you'll get the idea.
> http://www.yarranet.net.au/phill/fudge/traveller_char.html
>
> To be even more heretical I use my own Attributes and convert things
> like Social into Gifts.
>
> Fudge has a simple task mechanic and it's 7 levels map easily onto
> Traveller skills when converting.
>
> And no Attribute + Skill linking, which is bliss in my view.
One of the longest-running RPGs in the world, MAR Barker's Tekumel game,
which has been running more-or-less continuously since the early 70's has
the best system around.
"Roll up as many stats for your character as you would like. You will never
use them."
"To resolve a task, roll percentile dice. Low is good and high is bad. In
the middle is a judgement call by the referee."
I think that more space is spent in the rules describing who should bring
what types of snack food to the gaming meetings than over details of game
mechanics. Come to think of it, there is also a good bit of space dedicated
to describing what the players should do while waiting for the players to
show up who are running late.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 17:59:18 -0600
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
trentfs@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> And one last thing, any method for determining N in which lower is better is just plain WRONG!
Just for you, Trent...I'll confound you a bit. KB3 is a "higher-is-better" task system (like you, I like rolling high too...there's nothing like rollin' them bones and seeing sixes staring back at you!).
But, KB3 uses something I haven't seen in another game--you want to roll "high" to be successful on your task throw, but you don't want to roll as high as possible.
There's a "sweet spot" on a KB3 task roll, where, the closer you get to your target number, the better your roll. You want to beat your target (because, if you don't, the task fails), but you want to get as close to that target number as you can--if you roll too high, you'll only have Marginal Success.
So, I guess, in KB3, you'll get a little of both worlds--rolling high-is-better & rolling low-is-better.
One more thing...
In KB3, players don't just throw dice blindly, trying to get as high a roll as possible (because of what I've said above). When a character is very skilled in an area, the player will have to guage just how successful he wants to be.
Higher skills give the player more options, and it brings a bit of "role playing" to the dice throw--because a player has to put some thought into what he's going to do.
It's a fun aspect of KB3. Players "feel" when their characters are skilled.
Kenneth.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 00:00:06 +0000
From: Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: BITS adventures...
Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <dreamer@brokersys.com> wrote:
> > If you won't I will...everybody, go buy copies of the BITS
>adventures. Not only are they good, but they'll encourage Dom and
>his cohort to publish some more!
>How "complete" are the BITS adventures?
Completely. ;-)
>One of the things that has always bugged me about Traveller
>adventures in the past was that, in general, they were more
>"adventure ideas" or "adventure outlines"
>than real, full fledged, fleshed out adventure.
They are fleshed out adventures....
>When I buy an adventure scenario, I want to see detailed deck plans
>if a ship is involved, floor plans if encounters take place in
>buildings, a map of the planet
>and a map of the city the adventure takes place in (if appropriate).
...with deckplans, maps and stats as needed. They need to be because....
>And, I want to see the encounters detailed in such a way that they
>are plug-n-play. I just want to read it and go, if I'm short on
>time.
... in the case of SpaceDogs! (Vargr based) and the forthcoming
'Delta 3 is Down' (Zhodani based) they originated as tournament
adventures.
>If the other BITS adventures are prepared like this one, I'm going
>to have to get me a couple (dagnabbit).
Pretty much so.
They're only $8 each so hardly that bad.
Dom
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 00:05:12 +0000
From: Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Another GT question...
eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
>On 12/12/00 at 06:56 PM, Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> said:
> >I'm curious how many TMLrs have actually bought the books as I
> >notice that not many of the responses about the adventures
> >mentioned them. Either they're forgettable or ....
>
>Hey, I gave you a nice easy pitch so you could plug your product. <g>
I noticed ;-) Thank you! I'd also replied myself at the same point -
d'you remember when the TML used to review or discuss new Traveller
books...
>If you won't I will...everybody, go buy copies of the BITS
>adventures. Not only are they good, but they'll encourage Dom and
>his cohort to publish some more!
Absolutely - we (fortunately) have the opportunity to be a little
more flexible in our responses to the TML. However we do need to see
feedback, and enough sales to justify the effort of writing, layout
and preparation, not to mention the costs being covered.
Forthcoming stuff...
Delta 3 is Down (Adventure - the team are a Zhodani Courier Crew
around the time of the FFW)
101 Corporations (Famille Spofulam, Gridlore, X Tek and others I believe)
...TBC
>Eris
> ps. I just put Spacedogs back onto my Traveller shelf last night
>after rereading it.
David Thomas has a way with words, doesn't he? ;-)
Dom
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 19:13:41 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: TEDs
>Not only that, but a TED's equipment is likely to have rather large holes,
>such as lots of missiles, but only a single old EMS array for targetting,
>or lots of fixed artillery but no decent gravitics.
Also consider that the weapons they rely on will run out of ammunition/power
packs/spare parts/whatever. To save on those, the people that use the
weapons will only use them when they simply must. Once their world is
pacified, I suspect that they will get little to no practice in actually
*using* them. The RC's troops will be much better trained.
I'm thinking of the piss-poor showing made by German and Japanese pilots
late in WWII, largely because the fuel couldn't be spared to teach the poor
saps how to fly....
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 18:14:02 -0600
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Task Systems and Heresy
Eris Reddoch wrote:
> l...and yes, I know the EV of a d4 is 2.5, while the EV of
> a...spit...d3 is 2.0...
Talk like that just cracks me up.
It's good to be back.
Kenneth.
(spit)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 18:30:11 -0600 (CST)
From: Gregory Carl Kettler <gckettle@midway.uchicago.edu>
Subject: RE: DnD Movie review
You don't know how lucky you are.
On Wed, 13 Dec 2000, Jones, Dean wrote:
> Nah, someone elses. I live in the UK, so it'll be 2001 before it comes out
> over here.
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 19:31:05 EST
From: JFZeigler@aol.com
Subject: Re: "Dense, High" Atmospheres
In a message dated 12/13/00 6:17:45 PM Eastern Standard Time,
rboleyn@paradise.net.nz writes:
> > And Anderson had a world (sorry can't recall the name *or* the book's
> > title)
>
> _Ensign Flandry_, and the planet _may_ have been Starkad.
>
> > where the gravity was about 1.5 g, and the problem was that
> > at the higher pressures in the lowlands oxygen (and nitrogen?) reached
> > toxic levels for humans.
Starkad was like that, yes, although I don't recall any mention of human-
breathable atmosphere at high altitudes there.
Anderson's "New America" stories, on the other hand, were specifically
set on a "dense-high" world. The initial colonists from Earth had to
remain on a high plateau, but some of their children were able to settle
the lowlands, which resulted in social and political problems. . .
- ----------
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty
set of people who will take offense at it."
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 16:56:37 -0800
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
Subject: Re: TEDs
On Wed, 13 Dec 2000 22:51:32 GMT, "John G. Wood" <elvwood@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Why can't TEDs be competent?
>
>Out-of-game reason: If they were competent, they couldn't be taken
>out by a bunch of PCs.
Exactly! Really, Gerry, what next: are you going to start asking why
kobolds can't be competent? Or how all those orcs got into that 20x20
room, and where's their ventilation or latrine facilities? HONESTLY!
Now hush. Some of us are trying to engage in mindlessly violent adolescent
power fantasy here.
- --------------
Kelly St.Clair "Homines est! Dici omnes! Soylens viridis HOMINES EST!"
kellys@efn.org
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 19:03:40 -0600
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: OT: New DUNE series of novels
Brian Herbert is going to write a series on the Great Revolt next...
For you DUNE fans on the list...
(copied story--from the WotC website)
News from Arrakis
by Sue Weinlein Cook
Norwescon is also the hometown convention for the Amazing Brian Herbert,
coauthor (with Kevin
J. Anderson) of last year's hit Dune: House Atreides. The book has been
doing very well, Herbert
said -- it hit the bestseller lists in the U.S. and even snagged the No.
1 spot in Holland and Belgium.
"There are thirty million people in those two countries," Herbert said,
"so basically it's like having a
number one bestseller in the state of California." The novel is
currently translated for release in
Italy, Germany, France, and Spain.
Herbert and Anderson continued the series
even further with their story "A Whisper of
Caladan Seas," which appeared in our
Summer 1999 issue and tied into the novel by
focusing on a small group of House Atreides
defenders.
Next Herbert and Anderson plan to undertake
a series revolving around the Butlerian Jihad,
a time ten thousand years before Dune when
machines ruled humans. Herbert's father,
Dune author Frank Herbert, penned quite a
bit of original source material on this time
period, Herbert said. "Dad and I were going to
do at least one Butler novel, so it's fitting."
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 17:07:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: TEDs
Gee, my orcs operated as disciplined groups with plans (they were
lawful evil, after all) ...
- --- "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Dec 2000 22:51:32 GMT, "John G. Wood"
> <elvwood@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> >Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Why can't TEDs be competent?
> >
> >Out-of-game reason: If they were competent, they couldn't be taken
> >out by a bunch of PCs.
>
> Exactly! Really, Gerry, what next: are you going to start asking
> why
> kobolds can't be competent? Or how all those orcs got into that
> 20x20
> room, and where's their ventilation or latrine facilities? HONESTLY!
>
> Now hush. Some of us are trying to engage in mindlessly violent
> adolescent
> power fantasy here.
>
>
> --------------
> Kelly St.Clair "Homines est! Dici omnes! Soylens viridis HOMINES
> EST!"
> kellys@efn.org
>
=====
Gerry Harris
**********************************************************************************************
Æther Traveller — http://www.aethertraveller.com
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**********************************************************************************************
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------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3386
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Traveller-digest Thursday, December 14 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3387
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Mechanics
Re: FTL Physics Question
Re: Dean Dee Movie
Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
Re: BITS adventures...
Re: Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
Re: TEDs
Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
Re: FTL Physics Question
Re: FTL Physics Question
Re: Task Systems and Heresy
Re: Task Systems and Heresy
Re: Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
Re: Task Systems and Heresy
Re: Task Systems and Heresy
Re: Re DD-214
Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
Re: FTL Physics Question
RE: FTL Physics Question
Re: Task Systems and Heresy
Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
Re: FTL Physics Question
RE: FTL Physics Question
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 20:07:56 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Mechanics
> Gasp! I believe that Kenneth Bearden is attempting to convert himself into a
> game mechanic through some strange, alchemical means. KB3 stands for Ken
> Bearden 3! This kind of thing could shatter reality as we know it! Cool.
I knew a guy who was a quantum mechanic, but I could never really be sure
where he was at any given time . . .
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 16:47:19 -0800
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
Timothy Little wrote:
> Of course, relativity does not hold in Traveller, so no mass worm
> exodus occurs despite its FTL travel. I have run a GURPS game with
> both FTL and relativity, but I was explicitly prepared for things to
> get very messy as a result.
I like to believe that relativity holds in Traveller. The way I think of
jump drive makes this possible, I believe. Relativity describes how space,
time, and matter interact in our universe. I assume that jump drive takes
you out of our universe and into another universe for the duration of the
trip. Once you move outside our universe, however, all bets are off
concerning the physics of what happens in our universe. Thus in my
interpretation, asking how relativity applies to Traveller jump travel is
somewhat like asking what the square root of -1 is in the real numbers. It
doesn't exist in the real numbers, although there is a logical system in
which it makes sense.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 20:30:00 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Dean Dee Movie
> You don't know how lucky you are.
>
> On Wed, 13 Dec 2000, Jones, Dean wrote:
>
> > Nah, someone elses. I live in the UK, so it'll be 2001 before it comes
out
> > over here.
Actually, the flick exceeded expectations by generating $7 million it's first
weekend. If the flick comes close to breaking even, it will have done better
for New Line than that son of the devil turkey. That is evidently tanking big
time.
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 20:40:10 -0500
From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
Eris Reddoch wrote:
(quoting me)
>> And N will be either just skill, skill + stat/5, skill + stat,
>> skill*3 + stat, skill*D4 + stat, or possibly the other, mysterious
>> as-yet-to-be-revealed formula known only as The KB3.
>You left out all the variations on the divide by that pop up. I think
>skill + stat/3 is quite popular in some circles.
Funny you should mention that, since my own personal house system uses skill + stat/3, but with a twist: (stat/3)-2, for a range of -2 to +3. The idea was to counter-balance the skill inflation introduced in the T4 char-gen system (over CT/MT), with the Darwinian punishment to the stat-inhibited being a cheerful side-effect.
Trent
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 19:54:50 -0600
From: Brandon Cope <copeab@elc.net>
Subject: Re: BITS adventures...
Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:
> eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
>
> > If you won't I will...everybody, go buy copies of the BITS adventures. Not only are they good, but they'll encourage Dom and his cohort to publish some more!
>
> How "complete" are the BITS adventures?
>
> One of the things that has always bugged me about Traveller adventures in the past was that, in general, they were more "adventure ideas" or "adventure outlines"
> than real, full fledged, fleshed out adventure.
Actually, that's what I *prefer*. Fully-detailed adventures take too long to read through, too much cutting to fit the campaign and generally railroad players. Of
course, I'm more of an 'one the fly' GM, so YMMV.
A generous and sadistic GM,
Brandon Cope
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 20:55:55 -0500
From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
Kenneth Bearden wrote:
> trentfs@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>> And one last thing, any method for determining N in which lower >>is better is just plain WRONG!
>Just for you, Trent...I'll confound you a bit. KB3 is a "higher-is->better" task system (like you, I like rolling high too...there's >nothing like rollin' them bones and seeing sixes staring back at >you!).
>But, KB3 uses something I haven't seen in another game--you want to >roll "high" to be successful on your task throw, but you don't want >to roll as high as possible.
I've seen this done in reverse -- you want to roll as high as possible below your target number. Hitting the target exactly is a critical. I know Chaosium's 'Pendragon' game works that way, and I'm pretty sure I've seen others too.
>There's a "sweet spot" on a KB3 task roll, where, the closer you get >to your target number, the better your roll. You want to beat your >target (because, if you don't, the task fails), but you want to get >as close to that target number as you can--if you roll too high, >you'll only have Marginal Success.
I can accept something like that. After all, in craps* you want to hit your target, not boxcars. It's just the thought of rolling the bones yelling "come on snake-eyes" that turns me off. And, strangely, it's only with D6s that I feel that way -- rolling low on D% seems totally natural (aside: is there a nickname for rolling double 0's -- "owl-eyes" or something? If not, there should be!)
Trent
*One of the things I've always liked about the Traveller (well, REAL Traveller) is that rolling the dice feels kinda like shooting craps. If KB3 has a sub-rule where you get extra credit for rolling something 'the hard way' I'll adopt it on the spot!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 13:04:06 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:
> That one KB3 dice roll will answer ALL of these questions: Was the
> toss a Success? Was it a Greater Success? Was it a Marginal
> Success? Was it a Failure? Was it a Greater Failure? Was it a
> Fumble?
I'd like a system that tells me the result (good/bad/ugly) as well as
something about the result: Was it just good/bad luck? Does the
character know why it succeeded/failed? Would the result be the same
if it was tried again? How about if someone else tried it? Was it
due to character's skill (or lack thereof), or factors outside their
control?
I find these considerations to be far more important in their effect
on the game than a one-off result. They impact the characters far
more, and show that tasks don't occur in a vacuum.
> In KB3, the higher your character's skill level, the more likely he will
> be successful on his task throw. Your character's stat, on the other
> hand (the stat that governs the skill you just used for your task
> throw), will govern how well you did on that throw if you were
> successful.
Bleh. Not my favourite type of system. But then, it doesn't have to
please everyone. People have different tastes so it wouldn't do so,
no matter how well constructed.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 15:16:08 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: TEDs
On 13 Dec 00, at 18:32, Daniel Phelps wrote:
> Kipling wrote something to the effect of "Thank God we have Vickers and they
> do not." I personally make a great distinction between the application of
"Whatever happens, whatever not
We have the Maxim gun and they have not"
One of the great "wrong" quotes of history. Not only did the Mahdists have
Maxim guns, they had more than the British! What they lacked (and is far
more telling) was the tactical understanding of how to use them. Thus the
Mahdists MGs played no effective role in the campaign, whereas the
British MGs where desicive. The lesson from all this? All the technology in
the world won't make a difference if you don't understand it.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 21:10:32 -0500
From: knightsky@juno.com
Subject: Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
On Wed, 13 Dec 2000 20:40:10 -0500 trentfs@ix.netcom.com writes:
> Eris Reddoch wrote:
> (quoting me)
> >> And N will be either just skill, skill + stat/5, skill + stat,
> >> skill*3 + stat, skill*D4 + stat, or possibly the other,
> mysterious
> >> as-yet-to-be-revealed formula known only as The KB3.
>
> >You left out all the variations on the divide by that pop up. I
> think
> >skill + stat/3 is quite popular in some circles.
>
> Funny you should mention that, since my own personal house system
> uses skill + stat/3, but with a twist: (stat/3)-2, for a range of -2
> to +3. The idea was to counter-balance the skill inflation
> introduced in the T4 char-gen system (over CT/MT), with the
> Darwinian punishment to the stat-inhibited being a cheerful
> side-effect.
I've used pretty much the exact same system (I assume you're rounding
down for the stat mods?) with the advantages that (1) I can just declare
all skill successes to be 8+ before mods (instead of all the individual
rules for skill success in CT), and (2) the stat mods can be used for
other uses (i.e. STR mod added to HTH combat, for example). Since we
seem to be pretty much in agreement over this, obviously I think you're a
genius :-)
Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."
________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 13:22:03 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
On Wed, Dec 13, 2000 at 05:59:18PM -0600, Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:
> But, KB3 uses something I haven't seen in another game--you want to
>roll "high" to be successful on your task throw, but you don't want
>to roll as high as possible.
I've seen this, in a game called "Dragon Warriors" I think.
Particularly in opposed contests, where the lowest successful roll
won. It wasn't so great, and would be worse in an Nd6 system.
> There's a "sweet spot" on a KB3 task roll, where, the closer you get
>to your target number, the better your roll. You want to beat your
>target (because, if you don't, the task fails), but you want to get
>as close to that target number as you can--if you roll too high,
>you'll only have Marginal Success.
Doesn't this make the probability of a good success lower with
increasing skill?
> In KB3, players don't just throw dice blindly, trying to get as high
>a roll as possible (because of what I've said above). When a
>character is very skilled in an area, the player will have to guage
>just how successful he wants to be.
I hope it's not one of those 'choose your effective skill level'
mechanics, or a success level/chance tradeoff.
> Higher skills give the player more options, and it brings a bit of
> "role playing" to the dice throw--because a player has to put some
> thought into what he's going to do.
The more thought you have to put into dice throws the worse, from my
point of view. It would probably appeal to other players a lot more
than it does to me. I should probably refrain from commenting on the
system, since our tastes evidently differ by a great deal and there
would probably be more heat than light in the discussion.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 13:45:00 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
On Wed, Dec 13, 2000 at 04:47:19PM -0800, Luther Martin wrote:
> I like to believe that relativity holds in Traveller.
Even with reactionless thrusters? There are serious problems with
combining relativity with reactionless thrusters (near-C rocks are the
least of it, you should see some nasty stuff).
Also, at a suitable speed (say 99.9% of the speed of light), Regina
and Capitol are only 6 parsecs apart. Jump-6 is possible without
refuelling. A few X-boats could ramp up speed and do shuttle service,
transmitting information across the empire in only a week.
Oh, oops -- forgot the fact that the Lorenz transformation affects
time, too. Better make that transit time -130 years, so be prepared
to receive messages from your great grandchildren about what a nice
funeral you had last week.
So maybe jumpspace provides an absolute frame of reference. Oops,
there goes the first postulate of relativity (the one that gives
relativity its name).
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 15:56:09 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
On 14 Dec 00, at 13:45, Timothy Little wrote:
> So maybe jumpspace provides an absolute frame of reference. Oops,
> there goes the first postulate of relativity (the one that gives
> relativity its name).
I've always solved this by simply stating that in the Traveller universe,
Einstein was wrong and Jumpspace does provide the absolute frame of
reference (yes I know there are problems with that, I just ignore them).
After all, Einstein did not know about jumpspace did he <g>.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 21:01:56 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Task Systems and Heresy
Phill Webb wrote:
>
> Jason Anderson wrote:
> > Hmmm, Second Task War? No, there have probably been a war or two
> > since I left. Third Task War? Since the fighting hasn't started yet,
> > how about the Fourth (also known as False) Task War?
>
> trentfs@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> > Obviously it's going to be the Nth Task War.
>
> [Sensing the impending Task War an oddball faction of Heretics makes an
> early strike hoping the bigger task systems won't want to put any of
> their forces towards preventing the damage.]
>
> Personally I use Fudge - http://www.io.com/~sos/fudge.html
> for my Traveller games.
>
> My Character Creation system is all that's on the web, and that needs
> updating too but you'll get the idea.
> http://www.yarranet.net.au/phill/fudge/traveller_char.html
>
> To be even more heretical I use my own Attributes and convert things
> like Social into Gifts.
>
> Fudge has a simple task mechanic and it's 7 levels map easily onto
> Traveller skills when converting.
>
> And no Attribute + Skill linking, which is bliss in my view.
>
> So Eris, have I been heretical enough to be disowned by the heretics?
Sorry, Phil, but I use Fudge for Traveller, too, so you're
solidly in the heretic camp. <g> BTW, I'm tending, more and
more, to agree with you about not linking Atts and Skills. OTOH,
I absolutely love the career based character generation systems
in Traveller and don't really care for the point based "pick a
skill" stuff. If I ever get the time I swear I'm going to
convert Traveller chargen to Fudge terms...it already fits pretty
well as a conversion (1=Fair, 2=Good, 3=Great, 4=Superb,
5=Awesome, 6=Legendary, 7=Legendary+ and so on) for skills.
Attributes can be left alone, converted, used for damage, or just
ignored. See, I'm a Fudgeian too! <g>
I'm using something pretty close to straight CT with a task
system bolted on for the RDeep game (wanted the classic feel in
this game), and something somewhere between TNE and Fudge for my
Akus game. That doesn't mean I don't continually tinker with any
and all chargen and task systems I can find though. <g> I'm going
to go take a look at your web page and see if I can steal some
more ideas now.
Eris
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 21:04:10 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Task Systems and Heresy
Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:
>
> Eris Reddoch wrote:
>
> > l...and yes, I know the EV of a d4 is 2.5, while the EV of
> > a...spit...d3 is 2.0...
>
> Talk like that just cracks me up.
>
> It's good to be back.
>
> Kenneth.
>
> (spit)
Ken, I live to serve! <g> It's good to see you back on the list.
Eris
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 21:07:52 -0600
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
At 08:55 PM 12/13/2000 -0500, Trent wrote:
>I can accept something like that. After all, in craps* you want to hit
>your target, not boxcars. It's just the thought of rolling the bones
>yelling "come on snake-eyes" that turns me off. And, strangely, it's only
>with D6s that I feel that way -- rolling low on D% seems totally natural
>(aside: is there a nickname for rolling double 0's -- "owl-eyes" or
>something? If not, there should be!)
I have always called it 'Double Ott'.
Jimmy Simpson
nimrodd@mail.com
"The avalanche has already started.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
-Kosh Naranek (Babylon 5)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 21:52:25 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Task Systems and Heresy
> How dare he question my Mullah's kaboola! No, I meant 1d4 * Skill
> Level...and yes, I know the EV of a d4 is 2.5, while the EV of
> a...spit...d3 is 2.0...but to get to KB2's 3 you need to roll a d5, and
> that would be a twice cursed half-d10!!!
Nope. Just roll regular six-siders and reroll "6"s.
- -J. Jensen
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 15:08:14 +1100
From: Phill Webb <pwebbtrav@yarranet.net.au>
Subject: Re: Task Systems and Heresy
Eris Reddoch wrote:
>
> Phill Webb wrote:
> >
> > Personally I use Fudge - http://www.io.com/~sos/fudge.html
> > for my Traveller games.
> > So Eris, have I been heretical enough to be disowned by the heretics?
>
> Sorry, Phil, but I use Fudge for Traveller, too, so you're
> solidly in the heretic camp. <g>
So we just have to convert the rest of these heathens. :)
> BTW, I'm tending, more and
> more, to agree with you about not linking Atts and Skills.
If you're on the Fudge list you must have seen the discussion re linking
recently.
> I absolutely love the career based character generation systems
> in Traveller and don't really care for the point based "pick a
> skill" stuff.
My character generation system falls somewhere in between.
> I'm going to go take a look at your web page and see if I can steal
> some more ideas now.
It is a partial conversion from my TNE stuff from before I saw the
light. There are more thoughts to go up there and some things to
simplify, like the starship stuff being returned to a more CT feel and
racial info for most of the CT races, and more careers. I have been
thinking that a on the fly conversion of Trav Chargen is better than
spending a long time converting every career.
obtrav: not necessary because we are still talking about traveller just
under a different system. I want to see people listing the Traveller
systems as: CT, MT, T4, GT, FudgeT; from now on. ;)
Phill
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 23:34:14 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re DD-214
In a message dated 12/13/00 10:03:01 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz writes:
<< Tracy received seven battle stars for her World War II service. >>
Thank you for this info. It's easy to forget the "small fry" when you read
about the more "glamorous" battlewagons, carriers and subs...This sounds like
the career of a typical close escort during the FFW era...I also now know
where they got the name for the planet Efate...:-)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 22:41:27 -0600
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
Timothy Little wrote:
> I should probably refrain from commenting on the
> system, since our tastes evidently differ by a great deal and there
> would probably be more heat than light in the discussion.
Judging from your last two posts, I don't think you're going to like KB3.
Kenneth.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 16:00:39 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
On Thu, Dec 14, 2000 at 03:56:09PM +1300, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
> I've always solved this by simply stating that in the Traveller
> universe, Einstein was wrong and Jumpspace does provide the absolute
> frame of reference
Yes, that's the easiest way to do it. I was responding to Luther's
idea of trying to hold onto relativity. You can almost do it, but
only with a lot of stretching and accepting a lot of non-canonical
stuff.
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 20:56:18 -0800
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: RE: FTL Physics Question
Timothy Little wrote:
> > I like to believe that relativity holds in Traveller.
>
> Even with reactionless thrusters? There are serious problems with
> combining relativity with reactionless thrusters (near-C rocks are the
> least of it, you should see some nasty stuff).
As far as I can tell, these so-called "reactionless thrusters" are part of
some post-CT version, so I cheerfully ignore them. After all, they're not
part of the game I play. This also means that I have no idea at all what
they are.
> Also, at a suitable speed (say 99.9% of the speed of light), Regina
> and Capitol are only 6 parsecs apart. Jump-6 is possible without
> refuelling. A few X-boats could ramp up speed and do shuttle service,
> transmitting information across the empire in only a week.
>
> Oh, oops -- forgot the fact that the Lorenz transformation affects
> time, too. Better make that transit time -130 years, so be prepared
> to receive messages from your great grandchildren about what a nice
> funeral you had last week.
I don't quite follow this. Even if you are going the speed of light, say
just like light does, that doesn't change the distance between Regina and
Capitol, does it?
And the Lorentz transformation only applies to things which are moving
through our universe. Once they leave our universe, all bets are off. In
particular, the GR calculations which show that travelling faster than light
(in our universe) causes wierd stuff to happen really don't apply.
I imagine it to work a bit like this. Suppose that we live in a
2-dimensional world. Our 2-dimensional electrons will still attract positive
charges that are out of our plane. So you could get pulled out of your
universe (the plane) by these positive charges. Jump travel may work in some
sort or similar way. You do the right stuff in this universe, and you are
suddenly yanked out of this universe and into another universe. You do the
right things again, and the force which yanked you out of this universe lets
go of you and you somehow fall back into the universe you started out in,
but perhaps somewhere else. This is total nonsense, of course, and is just
an analogy. I'm not saying that jump drives work this way.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 16:06:10 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Task Systems and Heresy
Phill Webb wrote:
> Eris Reddoch wrote:
> > I absolutely love the career based character generation systems
> > in Traveller and don't really care for the point based "pick a
> > skill" stuff.
>
> My character generation system falls somewhere in between.
As does mine. I generate a character history, then put numbers to it
using a "pick-and-choose" system, which usually means point-based.
(Lately, GURPS)
> obtrav: not necessary because we are still talking about traveller
> just under a different system. I want to see people listing the
> Traveller systems as: CT, MT, T4, GT, FudgeT; from now on. ;)
Sounds good to me.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 16:09:47 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:
>
> Judging from your last two posts, I don't think you're going to like
> KB3.
I'll still be interested in seeing it even if I don't like it. I'm
sure it will have some interesting new points. I might even be able
to engage in constructive discussion about it. I'll try, at least.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 16:15:55 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
On Wed, Dec 13, 2000 at 08:56:18PM -0800, Luther Martin wrote:
> Timothy Little wrote:
>
> > > I like to believe that relativity holds in Traveller.
> >
> > Even with reactionless thrusters? There are serious problems with
> > combining relativity with reactionless thrusters (near-C rocks are the
> > least of it, you should see some nasty stuff).
>
> As far as I can tell, these so-called "reactionless thrusters" are part of
> some post-CT version, so I cheerfully ignore them.
OK, no problem. What do CT ships use for getting around within a star
system? All I know of are contragravity, thrusters, and HEPlaR
(gack). All violate relativity's energy conditions.
> I don't quite follow this. Even if you are going the speed of light, say
> just like light does, that doesn't change the distance between Regina and
> Capitol, does it?
Sure it does. It's called Lorentz-Fitzgerald contraction. In your
intertial reference frame, you are at rest and they are 6 parsecs
apart and travelling at 99.9% of the speed of light. Relativity says
that your inertial reference frame is as good as any other.
> And the Lorentz transformation only applies to things which are moving
> through our universe.
That's right, and both Regina and Capitol are moving through our
universe at 99.9% of the speed of light.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 23:23:12 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: FTL Physics Question
>As far as I can tell, these so-called "reactionless thrusters" are part of
>some post-CT version, so I cheerfully ignore them. After all, they're not
Yes. They first came about in MegaTraveller and have been giving people
headaches ever since. 'Cept me, 'cause I don't care if they're unrealistic
and I didn't play Traveller then (still don't; I'm just really good with
game mechanics).
>part of the game I play. This also means that I have no idea at all what
>they are.
>
Thruster-Plates *aren't* reactionless. They don't use reaction mass, but
they don't violate Newton's principles of action and reaction. They grab
onto the gravity well of celestial objects (ie stars) and ride it like a
wave. I think. Others (such as Dave Golden, if he's still here) can explain
it better.
What CT uses would be kind of like a fusion rocket (in SSDS terms), wouldn't
it?
>And the Lorentz transformation only applies to things which are moving
>through our universe. Once they leave our universe, all bets are off. In
>particular, the GR calculations which show that travelling faster than
>light (in our universe) causes wierd stuff to happen really don't apply.
>
This is because you end up with a formula that requires square-rooting a
negative number, right?
>I imagine it to work a bit like this. Suppose that we live in a
>2-dimensional world. Our 2-dimensional electrons will still attract
>positive charges that are out of our plane. So you could get pulled out of
>your universe (the plane) by these positive charges. Jump travel may work
>in some sort or similar way. You do the right stuff in this universe, and
>you are suddenly yanked out of this universe and into another universe. You
>do the right things again, and the force which yanked you out of this
>universe lets go of you and you somehow fall back into the universe you
>started out in, but perhaps somewhere else. This is total nonsense, of
>course, and is just an analogy. I'm not saying that jump drives work this
>way.
Maybe the jump drive makes the ship "body surf" on hyperspatial waves.
I'd love to here comments.
- -J. Jensen
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3387
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3388
Date: | 12/14/00 3:01:21 AM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Thursday, December 14 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3388
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
RE: "Dense, High" Atmospheres
RE: TEDs
Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
AuricTech _Lemieux_-class IISS Reft Sector Cruiser (FF&S2) (long)
RE: FTL Physics Question
Re: FTL Physics Question
Re: FTL Physics Question
RE: FTL Physics Question
RE: E-mail out of commission
Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
RE: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
Re: TEDs
GDW and DGP CT and MT on german EBay
Question
RE: Getting OOP Traveller for a reasonable price ( GDW and DGP CT and MT on german EBay)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 18:34:52 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: "Dense, High" Atmospheres
John P. Raynor wrote :
> I'm not sure I understand what is meant by a "Dense, High" atmosphere.
One that is both stupid and under the influence of drugs.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 18:52:09 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: TEDs
Kelly St.Clair wrote :
> On Wed, 13 Dec 2000 22:51:32 GMT, "John G. Wood" <elvwood@ntlworld.com>
wrote:
> > Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Why can't TEDs be competent?
> >
> >Out-of-game reason: If they were competent, they couldn't be taken
> >out by a bunch of PCs.
>
> Exactly! Really, Gerry, what next: are you going to start asking why
> kobolds can't be competent? Or how all those orcs got into that 20x20
> room, and where's their ventilation or latrine facilities? HONESTLY!
Y'know, I once really scared a D&D party by hitting them with an organized
kobold defence.
See, kobold's can have shamans, but few peope realized that, so the first
bit they were surprisd by was the magical attack that softened them up for
the kobold "special forces", the wrestlers !
Again, vey few people had read the rules for wrestling (the "grappling"
rules) , and it turns out that for low level monsters it is much more
efficient for them to grapple than "fight".
Four or more kobolds grapple their opponent, immobilizing a limb each,
leaving the way clear for the kobold with dagger to insert into the eye-slit
of the AC0 fighter, as once the character is immobilized thee attacker gets
an automatic hit.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 16:48:16 +1000
From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au
Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
On Mon, 11 Dec 2000
Eris Reddoch wrote:
>Let me summarize...there are two basic camps.
<Long explanation snipped>
>Isn't that a fair description of the jump fuel camps?
Eris, that was a wonderfully fair and comprehensive explanation of the
competing theories. I would only add that the first camp is as drop
tanks are described in canon, but leads to more questions than it answers
- - whereas the second camp seems to be more logical, but is definately
NOT canon.
Put me down as a vote for Camp 1.B.
Graeme
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 23:57:07 -0600
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: AuricTech _Lemieux_-class IISS Reft Sector Cruiser (FF&S2) (long)
In response to the recent discussion concerning the ability of the IISS
to establish courier service in the hazardous Reft Sector, AuricTech
Shipyards is pleased to submit the _Lemieux_ class cruiser for
consideration.
**begin transmission**
_Lemieux_-class IISS Cruiser
Tons: 12000 std (SL Sphere Hypersonic)
Dimensions: 68.5 m diameter
Volume: 168000 m3
Cargo: 90 std (4 hatches, Hdl: 4 x 40 t)
Mass (L/C): 105204 t/ 96659 t
Maintenance Points: 3075
Passengers High/Med: 0/0
Crew: 81/176
Frozen Watch: 29 (2 groups)
Cost: 9747.09 MCr
Tech Level: 15
Size: 10
Electronics
Controls: Holographic, High automation. 5xFibComp (CM: 0.2 CP: 5.0).
Terrain following sensors (TF:570, NOE:190). Bridge.
Communications: 4 x Radio (1,000AU, 0.2MW). 8xLaser (1,000AU, 0MW).
Sensors: 1xPEMS (14 [50 mkm], .05 MW). 1xAEMS (12.5 [5 mkm], LP, 50 MW).
6 x LIDAR (15 [2mkm], 2.5 MW).
Survey/Science: 1xDensitometer (9 [500 km] Sci). 1xNeutrino (9 [500 km],
Sci, 20 MW).
ECM: 1 x Radio Jammer (1,000AU, 0.4 MW). 1 x Area. Jammer (11, 62.5 MW).
1xDecp. Jammer (13, 12.5 MW).
1xPas. Jammer (16, 6.25 MW).
Signatures: Vis: -0.5, IR: 0 (0 at 14188 MW, -0.5 at 1880 MW), Act: 0,
Neu: 0, Grav: 1
Performance
6 Jump (1200 std/pc fuel)
3 / 3.2 Maneuver (Thruster: 7762 MW)
0 / 0 Contra-grav
3879 kph/4019 kph Atmosphere Maximum
2909 kph / 3014 kph Atmosphere Cruise
3 Power (Fusion: 18800 MW,1yr)
0 Battery
7341.4 Fuel (Scoop:8 /Purif: 30 hrs, 103 MW)
170/10/30/45 Accomodations (SmStRoom/LargeStRoom/Low Berth/Emgy Low
Berth)
4680 Life Sup. (Type:Extended,Good Food/Storage)
3 G-Comp
48 Sandcasters (AV:79/Cans:35) (arranged in 12 batteries)
300 Damper Screen (30 MW)
310 Meson Screen (60.0625 MW)
80 [432] Armor, 43 Structure
Weapons (300,000km range bands)
1 x 4.096k-Mj Spinal PA (+4) 2/11-11-11-11 [1,200/454-454-454-454] 200
rof
64 x 61-Mj Laser Turret [4 / ea bty] [byt rating: (+6) 1/5-2-2-2
[4,200/20-20-20-20] 200 rof (PD rof: 800)]
4 x Missile Bay Auto 4/4 (Mag:76 /MFD:500,000km)
w/80 Command DetLaser1d6/2 6.0G12 1000AU
Features
120 x Airlock
6 x Decontamination Airlock
1 x Docking Umbilical
1 x Electronic Shop (6 std ea.)
1 x Machine Shop (10 std ea.)
2 x Sickbay (8 std ea.)
1 x Ship's locker (6 std ea.)
4 x Armory (1.61 std ea.)
2 x Gym (2.5std ea.)
2 x Ordinary Galley (Cap: 20 each)
3 x Full Galley (Cap: 60 each)
2 x Crew Lounge (18 std ea.)
1 x Combat Information Center (14 std ea.)
Small Craft
2 x Docking Ring (30 std)
Ship's boats
2 x Streamlined Universal External Grapples (100 std)
Backups
Drives: None
Screens: 1 x Meson Screen (PV:143). 1 x Damper Screen (PV:160).
Communications: None
Sensors: 1 x PEMS (14 [50mkm]). 1 x AEMS (12 [1.6mkm]). 6 x LIDAR (14.5
[500 kkm]).
ECM: None
Power & Fuel: None
Crew Details 6 x Maneuver. 51 x Engineering. 22 x Gunnery. 14 x Screen.
12 x Flight.
40 x Troops. 24 x Command. 5 x Stewards. 2 x Medical.
Designer's notes:
Recent discussion concerning the ability of the IISS to establish
courier service in the Reft Sector (in the face of Vargr predation) has
led AuricTech Shipyards to propose the _Lemieux_ class of IISS
cruisers. At 12,000 dtons, the _Lemieux_ class is among the smallest
cruiser designs available. Despite this small size, the _Lemieux_ class
combines credible defensive and offensive firepower, useful armor, and
an astounding J-6 capability in one affordable package.
The _Lemieux_ class is designed for long-term habitability. Every
crewbeing has an individual small stateroom (the captain and senior
department heads are issued large staterooms). Sufficient provisions of
Good quality are provided to enable the _Lemieux_ class cruiser to
undertake cruises of up to 26 weeks duration. There are two lounges,
each of 18 dtons, and each equipped with a snack bar/galley capable of
feeding 20 off-duty crewbeings. Further, the _Lemieux_ design includes
two standard gym facilities, which exceed Imperial standards for
exercise facilities per 100 crewmembers.
The long-term habitability of the _Lemieux_ class is not achieved at the
expense of mission capability, however. In addition to the extensive
sensor suite, the _Lemieux_ class sports a 14 dton Combat Information
Center. More importantly, the _Lemieux_ class can carry two 100 dton
starships (such as scout/couriers or x-boats) in streamlined external
grapples. The _Lemieux_ class also carries sufficient extra fuel
tankage to refuel two 100 dton starships for trips up to J-5 each.
The two 30 dton ship's boats carried by the _Lemieux_ class provide
adequate transport for the 40 ship's troops routinely embarked, as well
as for additional mission requirements.
At less than 10 BCr per ship, the _Lemieux_ class IISS light cruiser
enables the IISS to provide vital communications services in hazardous
regions of space.
_Lemieux_ class cruisers are named for athletes who are noted for their
speed.
**end transmission**
With ships of this type (and deep-space jumping), one could establish
communications across a rift of up to 12 parsecs. One _Lemieux_ class
cruiser jumps out three parsecs (using 1/2 of available jump fuel) from
Base A. One of the two carried 100 dton ships is an AuricTech
_Greyhound_ class J-6 (courier variant). This ship jumps six parsecs,
and links up with a second _Lemieux_, which dispatches its _Greyhound_
and then jumps three parsecs (with the incoming _Greyhound_ aboard) to
the other end of the rift. Each _Lemieux_ class cruiser retains a 100
dton ship of J-4 or better as a dispatch boat in the event of trouble.
I leave design of non-FF&S2 equivalents to my fellow gearheads who
specialize in other design sequences.
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 23:16:51 -0800
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: RE: FTL Physics Question
Timothy Little wrote:
> > I don't quite follow this. Even if you are going the speed of light, say
> > just like light does, that doesn't change the distance between
> Regina and
> > Capitol, does it?
>
> Sure it does. It's called Lorentz-Fitzgerald contraction. In your
> intertial reference frame, you are at rest and they are 6 parsecs
> apart and travelling at 99.9% of the speed of light. Relativity says
> that your inertial reference frame is as good as any other.
>
>
> > And the Lorentz transformation only applies to things which are moving
> > through our universe.
>
> That's right, and both Regina and Capitol are moving through our
> universe at 99.9% of the speed of light.
Others, say those still on Regina, will not see the distance to Capitol
decrease, and they will not get messages from Capitol any sooner if your
0.999 c X-boat carries them, but you really need to precisely define what
you mean by how far and how long when you start doing this. I seem to
remember some rule of thumb from relativity about avoiding talking about
distances and times like this since it doesn't exactly make sense.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 18:53:50 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
On Wed, Dec 13, 2000 at 11:16:51PM -0800, Luther Martin wrote:
> Timothy Little wrote:
> > That's right, and both Regina and Capitol are moving through our
> > universe at 99.9% of the speed of light.
>
> Others, say those still on Regina, will not see the distance to Capitol
> decrease,
Who cares about them? Their frame of reference isn't the one the jump
drives are activated from.
> and they will not get messages from Capitol any sooner if your
>0.999 c X-boat carries them,
Sure they will. About 400 years sooner, if my calculations are
correct. And providing relativity holds. (My earlier 130-year figure
was wrong since I got light years confused with parsecs)
> but you really need to precisely define what you mean by how far and
>how long when you start doing this.
That's right. There is a formula that converts between coordinates in
different inertial frames (the Lorentz transformations).
If relativity holds, then physics (including a jump drive's operation)
on a ship works the same, no matter what speed anything else is moving
relative to the ship. The jump drive gives a defined set of relations
between spacetime coordinates of departure and arrival (0-6 parsecs in
any spatial direction and +1 week in the time direction, give or take
a random variation).
In the ship's inertial frame of reference, that can easily be arranged
to correspond with (Regina, year 1117) while the arrival point is
(Capitol, year about 700). Unless relativity fails in our universe as
well as in jumpspace.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 19:22:49 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
James Jensen wrote:
> >As far as I can tell, these so-called "reactionless thrusters" are part of
> >some post-CT version, so I cheerfully ignore them. After all, they're not
>
> Yes. They first came about in MegaTraveller and have been giving people
> headaches ever since. 'Cept me, 'cause I don't care if they're unrealistic
> and I didn't play Traveller then (still don't; I'm just really good with
> game mechanics).
> Thruster-Plates *aren't* reactionless. They don't use reaction mass,
> but they don't violate Newton's principles of action and reaction.
They do if they function as described. Also if they act on celestial
objects there should be great delays between activating thrusters and
actually moving. If there are no delays, that could be a basis for a
FTL communication method. I have no problem with that, my GURPS game
had a similar explanation for its own high-efficiency thrusters. But
the consequences would break a number of Traveller assumptions unless
you can do some extraordinarily vigorous handwaving.
Under relativity, such thrusters require negative energy densities in
some region. You can do lots of very "interesting" things if you can
produce negative energy densities. I've had a lot of fun looking for
various methods of reconciling relativity with either or both of jump
space (or other FTL methods) and thrusters. One day I'll put some of
them up on a web site, when I get around to organising them.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 00:24:40 -0800
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: RE: FTL Physics Question
Timothy Little wrote:
> If relativity holds, then physics (including a jump drive's operation)
> on a ship works the same, no matter what speed anything else is moving
> relative to the ship. The jump drive gives a defined set of relations
> between spacetime coordinates of departure and arrival (0-6 parsecs in
> any spatial direction and +1 week in the time direction, give or take
> a random variation).
>
> In the ship's inertial frame of reference, that can easily be arranged
> to correspond with (Regina, year 1117) while the arrival point is
> (Capitol, year about 700). Unless relativity fails in our universe as
> well as in jumpspace.
My "theory" about jump drive operation is that you actually leave this
universe when the drive is activated and go into another universe where
physics is different, so that relativity doesn't apply to you. If you assume
that you are staying in this universe, then bad things happen if you go FTL.
On the other hand, if we are assuming the existence of some trick which lets
you do these big jumps, there's absolutely no reason to assume that the jump
drive doesn't behave like you want it to, preventing this troublesome time
travel.
Everything I have read about relativity is based on following nice curves in
some nice smooth space. The mathematics breaks down if you are not following
one of these nice curves, and if you leave your nice smooth space, all bets
are off. I think that this is the way to _rationalize_ jump drive without
time travel. Like most game elements, what you really do is think about how
you want a particular technology to work, and work backwards from there.
This handwaving is purely my attempt to justify how I know jump drives work.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 09:09:43 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: E-mail out of commission
Understand you guys got some bad weather in Austin, too? Weird...can't wrap
my head around the concept of snow in Texas :)
Dean
> -----Original Message-----
> From: GDWGAMES@aol.com [mailto:GDWGAMES@aol.com]
> Sent: 13 December 2000 20:36
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: E-mail out of commission
>
>
> The SJ Games ISP lost power today, so just about anything
> connected with SJ
> Games is down -- the website, the illuminator, the on-line
> magazines -- until
> they get power back.
>
> I can still get e-mail at gdwgames, and I'm working out of
> home today, like
> most of the Austin SJ games staff.
>
> LKW
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 11:21:53 +0200 (EET)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
I apologise for being a jerk and not checking the facts (or at least
explaining them badly).
I am very sorry for the flames I ignited. B-(
On Wed, 13 Dec 2000, Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm wrote:
> Frank G. Pitt wrote:
> Under the naming laws used in Scandinavia (Sweden, Finland, Norway,
> Denmark, Iceland), at least in the countries I know these laws of, you
> are allowed to take an "odd" name if you have cultural background etc.
> to motivate it.
Jens is quite correct, the situation is the same in Finland.
> What is disallowed is taking an "odd" name without apparent reason.
> However, the laws are quite loose on that subject as well. Names which
> are obviously silly, like "Idiot" or "Gravel" (actually tried and denied
> in Sweden), will not be allowed. However...
The Finnish law states (freely translated) that a name must not be
offensive, to other persons, or to the name carrier, and it usually must
be the Finnish version.
I don't know if there are English translations of Finnish law. Probably
not.
I still know of Rebecca, while there is a perfectly good Finnish version,
Rebekka. This is not in my view very wise...
> The laws are not that strict after all ;-)
No, in practice they are not.
The person who has most control over naming is the one who enters it into
a database - and this varies considerably. I once knew two brothers, the
older one's name is Taisto, that is, "Battle", and the younger one is
Uljas Voitto, which means "Glorious Victory". (He is an accomplished
composer today, won some prizes and all.)
Uljas had some problems with BBS Sysops, they did not believe that this
was his real name.
There are some laws which prevent people from changing their names many
times. This might be considered as breach of privacy and freedom, but it
is much easier to keep track of people that way. And, as our State is not
very corrupt and almost everybody does get something from it, almost the
only people who change their names to something completely different from
their given ones are criminals. This is something of an exaggaration, but
not very far from the truth.
(I wonder why anybody would like to change their name to "Penguin Boy" and
what joy would they get from it. Even while I am a Linux enthusiast. Sorry
if I am very narrowsighted, but laws restricting for example the flow of
information are much more confining and dangerous than naming laws.
After all, in regular life one can use nicknames and such.)
(And no, Finland is not the place with most bureucracy I have
encountered. My girlfriend's aunt moved to Germany, and she has some
horrid tales to tell about German bureucracy...)
ObTrav :
This might give reasons to consider the differences of life on different
planets... The different systems here on Earth are, well, very different.
Even in Western countries.
Other pieces of trivia : Finland elects its president with direct vote.
(Is this the right term? We have a number for each candidate, then
everybody goes in a voting booth and writes the number of the preferred
candidate on the paper slip and then the slip is stamped and returned.)
If no one gets half of the accepted votes in the first round, there is
a second round with the two leading candidates. The one who gets most
votes here wins.
I don't know the reasons for USA's recent scandal, but I could think that
mostly it derives from the country being so large. (Counting machines
seem a must there, while in Finland it is a hand count always).
We are so small a country (about five million people) that a hand count is
possible. There are also no very big political differences between
different parties, so we probably won't have to go to courtrooms to decide
elections.)
(Of course there are some differences, but as the Leftist party and the
National Coalition (right-wing) have been for many years in the government
together, with Greens and Social democrats, they all seem to blend in
their policies.)
- --
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 09:32:35 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
I'm pretty sure that the jump drives actually have redundant capacity for
safety reasons. I remember working out that an S-class scout could actualy
just about transport itself and another S-class. Gearhead confirmation
please.
DEan
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tsykoduk [mailto:tsykoduk@bigfoot.com]
> Sent: 13 December 2000 06:21
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: RE: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
>
>
> I don't follow your logic here.
>
> Say, you have a Jump-6 100 ton ship. It uses 60 tons of fuel
> for a jump-6.
>
> If you add a 100 ton fuel tank to it (and it has to carry it
> thru jump) then
> you cannot make a jump-6, because that J6 drive will only
> push 200 tons J3.
> So, you use 60 tons of fuel and do a J3. You then burn the
> remaining 40 tons
> in the tanks and do a J4 (as per CT dumping the tanks). You
> then burn the
> internal 60 ton stores and do one more J6 and arrive 16
> parsecs away, with
> no jump tanks a dry fuel tanks after about 3 weeks.
>
> If you add a fuel tanks to make it a 1896 ton ship, then it
> can make (J6 @
> 100 tons = aprox J0.3) using 60 tons of fuel.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> > I think he'd be better off keeping all tankage internal and
> not get into
> the whole drop
> > tank thing because of all the side-effect issues, just my opinion.
>
> Hmm, I have been thinking about this.
> If you can drop or reduce the volume of the fuel-tank then
> you can just add
> more fuel capacity and be capable of traveling further
> without refueling. A
> 100-Ton jump-6 ship could add a 167-Ton fuel-tank and make an
> extra jump-6,
> and a 444-Ton fuel-tank to make one more. The 3rd tank should
> be 1185-Ton,
> making it an 1896-Ton ship capable of traveling across a 24
> parsec rift.
> This would change the OTU, where I thing a 10 parsec rift is
> impassable
> unless you uses an STL-ship.
> Conclusion: IMTU drop-tanks and reducible fuel-tanks is
> impossible. Now I
> just have to come up with an explanation. Any suggestions?
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 02:02:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: TEDs
But, one of my points was that TED militaries will have studied the
campaigns of the past. They should have a working knowledge of the
employment of advanced weaponry -- many of them are descendents of
Imperial or other military units and it has only been 70 years.
- --- Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz> wrote:
> On 13 Dec 00, at 18:32, Daniel Phelps wrote:
>
> > Kipling wrote something to the effect of "Thank God we have Vickers
> and they
> > do not." I personally make a great distinction between the
> application of
>
> "Whatever happens, whatever not
> We have the Maxim gun and they have not"
>
> One of the great "wrong" quotes of history. Not only did the Mahdists
> have
> Maxim guns, they had more than the British! What they lacked (and is
> far
> more telling) was the tactical understanding of how to use them. Thus
> the
> Mahdists MGs played no effective role in the campaign, whereas the
> British MGs where desicive. The lesson from all this? All the
> technology in
> the world won't make a difference if you don't understand it.
>
=====
Gerry Harris
**********************************************************************************************
Æther Traveller — http://www.aethertraveller.com
Soldier's Companion — http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html
**********************************************************************************************
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war" — Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1
**********************************************************************************************
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 11:47:01 +0100
From: "Volker Alexander Greimann" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: GDW and DGP CT and MT on german EBay
Hi folks,
I´ve just seen this on the German Ebay (ebay.de). As i drained my
account already and the prices are pretty spicey, i won´t be able to
bid on any of the items, but i thought, you might be interested. The
seller is open for international orders, so you´ll probably see it on
your e-bay as well.
526375006 TRAVELLER(engl.): Alien Modul 1 Aslan
40,00 DM
526375261 TRAVELLER(engl.): Alien Modul 2, M`Kree
59,00 DM
526375508 TRAVELLER(engl.): Alien Modul 3 Vavgr
30,00 DM
526375690 TRAVELLER(engl.): Alien Modul 5 Droyne
39,00 DM
526375913 TRAVELLER(engl.): Alien Modul 6 Solomani
35,00 DM
526376125 TRAVELLER(engl.): Grand Gensis DG 1987
45,00 DM
526376360 TRAVELLER(engl.): Early Adventures DG 1988
39,00 DM
526376768 TRAVELLER(engl.): Megatraveller Gamiy Kit DG
29,00 DM
526377245 TRAVELLER(engl.): First Survey Imperium ...
38,00 DM
Volker
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 20:17:13 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Question
My question:
My DGP collection is incomplete. Which subsectors in Core Sector did they
publish details for? I know that Galactic (and the older sources it drew
on) has full sector data, but how much "real" stuff is there?
I have Survival Margin.
Oh yeah. In a week or two various religions are going to have
festivals. All you non-believers, or believers in other things, deserve
presents as compensation for having to put up with it. How about a
relatively detailed subsector and a scenario?
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 10:57:47 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Getting OOP Traveller for a reasonable price ( GDW and DGP CT and MT on german EBay)
For more realistic prices, join BITS.
Dean
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Volker Alexander Greimann [mailto:grei5001@uni-trier.de]
> Sent: 14 December 2000 10:47
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: GDW and DGP CT and MT on german EBay
>
>
> Hi folks,
> I´ve just seen this on the German Ebay (ebay.de). As i drained my
> account already and the prices are pretty spicey, i won´t be able to
> bid on any of the items, but i thought, you might be interested. The
> seller is open for international orders, so you´ll probably see it on
> your e-bay as well.
>
> 526375006 TRAVELLER(engl.): Alien Modul 1 Aslan
>
> 40,00 DM
>
> 526375261 TRAVELLER(engl.): Alien Modul 2, M`Kree
>
> 59,00 DM
>
> 526375508 TRAVELLER(engl.): Alien Modul 3 Vavgr
>
> 30,00 DM
>
> 526375690 TRAVELLER(engl.): Alien Modul 5 Droyne
>
> 39,00 DM
>
> 526375913 TRAVELLER(engl.): Alien Modul 6 Solomani
>
> 35,00 DM
>
> 526376125 TRAVELLER(engl.): Grand Gensis DG 1987
>
> 45,00 DM
>
> 526376360 TRAVELLER(engl.): Early Adventures DG 1988
>
> 39,00 DM
>
> 526376768 TRAVELLER(engl.): Megatraveller Gamiy Kit DG
>
> 29,00 DM
>
> 526377245 TRAVELLER(engl.): First Survey Imperium ...
>
> 38,00 DM
>
> Volker
>
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3388
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3389
Date: | 12/14/00 6:05:20 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Thursday, December 14 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3389
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Re DD-214
Re: "Dense, High" Atmospheres
Re: FTL Physics Question
Re: FTL Physics Question
Re: FTL Physics Question
Re: TEDs
Re: E-mail out of commission
Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link
RE: Getting OOP Traveller for a reasonable price ( GDW and DGP CT and MT on german EBay)
RE: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
Re DD-214
Dangerous Kobolds was: Re: TEDs
Re: Task Systems and Heresy
Re DD-214
RE: BITS adventures...
Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
RE: Getting OOP Traveller for a reasonable price ( GDW and DGP CT and MT on german EBay)
RE: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
RE: "Dense, High" Atmospheres
Re: Re DD-214
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3388
Re : "Dense, High" Atmospheres
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 22:31:35 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re DD-214
In mail you write:
>>It's also the _D_epartment of _D_efense Form number 214. Army forms are
>>DA-(number)
>>--
>>
>>Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
>>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
>
> More importantly it's the form for your discharge from the service!
>
> Zane
As in the infamous "That's it!" joke?
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 22:32:23 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: "Dense, High" Atmospheres
In mail you write:
> In a message dated 12/13/00 6:17:45 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> rboleyn@paradise.net.nz writes:
>
>> > And Anderson had a world (sorry can't recall the name *or* the book's
>> > title)
>>
>> _Ensign Flandry_, and the planet _may_ have been Starkad.
>>
>> > where the gravity was about 1.5 g, and the problem was that
>> > at the higher pressures in the lowlands oxygen (and nitrogen?) reached
>> > toxic levels for humans.
>
> Starkad was like that, yes, although I don't recall any mention of human-
> breathable atmosphere at high altitudes there.
Been too long since I read that one.
> Anderson's "New America" stories, on the other hand, were specifically
> set on a "dense-high" world. The initial colonists from Earth had to
> remain on a high plateau, but some of their children were able to settle
> the lowlands, which resulted in social and political problems. . .
*That's* what I was thinking of!
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 22:34:52 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
In mail you write:
> While reading commentary on the National Review Online site, I found
> the following interesting question in a column by NRO editor Jonah
> Goldberg:
>
> (Speaking of physics. If there are any really smart physics types out
> there, could someone answer the following question. Imagine you have a
> rod -- or some other object that isn't the name of one of Smither's
> kids -- and it is perfectly rigid. Imagine it extends from here to
> Alderan (assuming it wasn't blown up by the Death Star). Now, my
> understanding of physics is that nothing can go faster than the speed
> of light. But if I have this perfectly rigid rod (no doubt the subtitle
> to more than one gay porn movie), and I press down on one end,
> shouldn't the other end of this (inanimate steel) rod move
> instantaneously? After all, if it is perfectly rigid it should allow
> force to flow from one end to the other perfectly. And if that is the
> case, isn't the force travelling faster than the speed of light? This
> question has bothered me for years. But the true test for you
> pocket-protector readers is not to give me an accurate answer, but to
> give me an answer I can both understand and that won't tire out my lips
> while I read it.)
> Can any of our resident physicists answer this question?
The answer is simple. Any push on one end gets to the other end as a
*sound wave* thru the material. Since this can't travel faster than
light, the material *cannot* be "infinitely rigid". The compression
wave will travel slower than light.
Matter of fact, the "push" is the electromagnetic repulsion of one
atom pushing on the repulsion of another. So it's all electromagnetic
forces (ie "light") anyway.
There's another fun one with a long rod passing thru a structure with
doors at each end. And being able to close both doors with the rod
inside even though it's longer than the building.
It's harder to explain, but the basic trick with that one is that in
the reference frame of the rod, you open the "leading" door before you
close the "trailing" door, even though in the building's frame of
reference you close them at the same time.
It's a good way to get across the fact that "simultaneous" is a
meaningless concept where relativity is concerned.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 22:42:37 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
In mail you write:
> Timothy Little wrote:
>
>> > I like to believe that relativity holds in Traveller.
>>
>> Even with reactionless thrusters? There are serious problems with
>> combining relativity with reactionless thrusters (near-C rocks are the
>> least of it, you should see some nasty stuff).
>
> As far as I can tell, these so-called "reactionless thrusters" are part of
> some post-CT version, so I cheerfully ignore them. After all, they're not
> part of the game I play. This also means that I have no idea at all what
> they are.
>
>> Also, at a suitable speed (say 99.9% of the speed of light), Regina
>> and Capitol are only 6 parsecs apart. Jump-6 is possible without
>> refuelling. A few X-boats could ramp up speed and do shuttle service,
>> transmitting information across the empire in only a week.
>>
>> Oh, oops -- forgot the fact that the Lorenz transformation affects
>> time, too. Better make that transit time -130 years, so be prepared
>> to receive messages from your great grandchildren about what a nice
>> funeral you had last week.
>
> I don't quite follow this. Even if you are going the speed of light, say
> just like light does, that doesn't change the distance between Regina and
> Capitol, does it?
At a high enough fraction of c, the distance *in the reference frame of
the ship* is shorter. Much shorter. For example, at .8 c, one parsec
(in the direction of travel) will be measured as only .6 parsecs. Of
course, the "week" in jump will be measured by folks outside the ship
as 10/6ths weeks. Or about 11.7 days.
Remember, for observers moving at a constant velocity, their reference
frame is just as good as that of any *other* constant velocity
observer.
> And the Lorentz transformation only applies to things which are moving
> through our universe. Once they leave our universe, all bets are off. In
> particular, the GR calculations which show that travelling faster than light
> (in our universe) causes wierd stuff to happen really don't apply.
Sorry, but you are wrong. All they care about is that the interval
(special physics meaning of the word) between the departure and arrival
is time like. And this is determined by the XYZT co-ordinates of the
two events as measured by a constant velocity observer. *Any* such
observer will get the same "interval" (space-time equivalent of
"distance" in XYZ co-ordinates) for the same pair of events *regardless
of his velocity.
The reason things get so weird is that while distance is:
d = SQRT( (x1-x2)^2 + (y1-y2)^2 + (z1-z2)^2)
Interval is:
i = SQRT( (t1-t2) - ( (x1-x2)^2 + (y1-y2)^2 + (z1-z2)^2 ) )
or
i = SQRT( (x1-x2)^2 + (y1-y2)^2 + (z1-z2)^2 - (t1-t2)^2)
I can never remember which it is.
That minus sign makes *worlds* of difference.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 23:36:00 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
In mail you write:
> Timothy Little wrote:
>
>> Of course, relativity does not hold in Traveller, so no mass worm
>> exodus occurs despite its FTL travel. I have run a GURPS game with
>> both FTL and relativity, but I was explicitly prepared for things to
>> get very messy as a result.
>
> I like to believe that relativity holds in Traveller. The way I think of
> jump drive makes this possible, I believe. Relativity describes how space,
> time, and matter interact in our universe. I assume that jump drive takes
> you out of our universe and into another universe for the duration of the
> trip. Once you move outside our universe, however, all bets are off
> concerning the physics of what happens in our universe. Thus in my
> interpretation, asking how relativity applies to Traveller jump travel is
> somewhat like asking what the square root of -1 is in the real numbers. It
> doesn't exist in the real numbers, although there is a logical system in
> which it makes sense.
See my other post for details, but relativity describes the
relationship between events in our universe. And going into jump and
exiting jump *are* events in our universe.
However, the way jump drive works, it'd be hard to use it to go back in
time, even though it'd be *possible* because of relativity.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 23:45:27 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: TEDs
In mail you write:
> One thing that bothers me about the TNE background -
> technologically-elevated dictators (TEDs) are portrayed as futuristic
> equivalents of banana republic dictators. Their military forces are
> mostly for show, and couldn't stand up to the righteous assault of the
> Star Vikings.
>
> There's only one thing wrong with this. These guys run entire worlds.
> That makes them a whole lot more competent than the likes of Caesar,
> Napolean or Hitler.
Not necessarily. Keep in mind that the population of a typical world is
only hundreds of thousands in *regular* Traveller. As I recall it tends
to be lower in the Wilds.
> To top it off, in many cases they've only recently
> brought the whole world under their control, which should give them a
> large cadre of combat-experienced officers and troops.
Maybe. But experienced against folks with vastly inferior tech. Not
folks with tech as good or better, and experience fighting folks at the
same tech level.
Rather like the dictator of one of the African nations in the 70s or
80s trying to take on the US or USSR. Just because he conquered his
people and could handle any of his neighbors doesn't mean he'd have a
prayer of winning that fight.
> Also, only 70 years have passed since the fall of the Imperium. There
> is still going to be a military tradition on many TED-controlled
> worlds. Military officers will study Imperial-era campaigns (as well
> as other historical campaigns) and should be at least conversant in
> orbital assaults and counter-measures.
That's the real problem. The whole "short nap" has the Wilds being in a
state that is totally unreasonable for *less* than one lifetime. 300
years, that might result in the mess we are expected to believe.
*Maybe* 200. But 70? No way.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 00:09:55 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: E-mail out of commission
In mail you write:
> The SJ Games ISP lost power today, so just about anything connected
> with SJ Games is down -- the website, the illuminator, the on-line
> magazines -- until they get power back.
UPSes are wonderful things. Then again, most ISPs barely have enough
UPS capability to do a graceful shutdown.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 00:18:14 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link
In mail you write:
>
>
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:
>
>>Matter of fact, that why the *original* write-up for jump tanks had you
>>using the fuel from them and *then* jumping *after* blowing the tanks
>>free of the ship.
>
> I wasn't aware that there was dissenting write-up in canon that says that
> jump tanks are discarded AFTER jumping. Where is it?
Re-read the above. I'm saying you jump *after* you discard the tanks.
And, I'm not aware of any canon references to the contrary, but I'm not
real familar with stuff post MT.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 12:11:14 +0100
From: "Volker Alexander Greimann" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: RE: Getting OOP Traveller for a reasonable price ( GDW and DGP CT and MT on german EBay)
On 14 Dec 2000, at 10:57, Jones, Dean wrote:
>
> For more realistic prices, join BITS.
That helps finding OOP Traveller? Cool, sign me up yesterday ;-)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 00:20:44 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
> I apologise for being a jerk and not checking the facts (or at least
> explaining them badly).
>
> I am very sorry for the flames I ignited. B-(
No problem, Mikko.
Personally I wasn't actually upset by what you wrote,
I just wanted to clarify my point of view.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 21:30:36 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re DD-214
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance"
> Following this action, Tracy rejoined TF 62 for escort duty and touched
> at Noumea, Tulagi, and Efate before heading for Hawaii on 19 April. She
> reached Pearl Harbor on 1 May and, 11 days later, headed toward San
> Francisco for a much needed overhaul at Mare Island.
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
> I also now know where they got the name for the planet Efate...:-)
Yes, Andrew, you *can't* use words like Efate in public without
explanation. Of course, I knew where Efate is too, but I'm just naturally
clever, cute and wonderful.
(OK, OK, it's an island in Vanuatu, formerly the New Hebrides.)
An oddity: "pidgin" is spoken in Vanuatu, as well as in Papua New Guinea.
According to some Papua New Guinean friends, the two "pidgins" are pretty
well mutually incomprehensible. Vanuatu pidgin contains bits from French,
and local languages, plus it is spoken with a different accent from PNG
pidgin, which contains chunks of German, plus a different set of local
languages. That said, the written bits of Vanuatu pidgin I have seen look
horribly like PNG pidgin, but that is probably a result of my unfamiliarity
with PNG pidgin. Sadly, the reliability of my friends is a bit less than
100% too - they may have exaggerated.
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 21:22:22 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Dangerous Kobolds was: Re: TEDs
No. Kobolds are the only disciplined and tactically minded monster. It's
a consequence of them being individually such wimps. PCs get *really*
snaky when they get bounced by Kobolds. : )
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
> From: Gerry Harris
> Gee, my orcs operated as disciplined groups with plans (they were
> lawful evil, after all) ...
>
>
> - --- "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org> wrote:
> > On Wed, 13 Dec 2000 22:51:32 GMT, "John G. Wood"
> > <elvwood@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > Why can't TEDs be competent?
> > >
> > >Out-of-game reason: If they were competent, they couldn't be taken
> > >out by a bunch of PCs.
> >
> > Exactly! Really, Gerry, what next: are you going to start asking
> > why
> > kobolds can't be competent? Or how all those orcs got into that
> > 20x20
> > room, and where's their ventilation or latrine facilities? HONESTLY!
> >
> > Now hush. Some of us are trying to engage in mindlessly violent
> > adolescent
> > power fantasy here.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 21:22:14 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Task Systems and Heresy
From: "Luther Martin"
> One of the longest-running RPGs in the world, MAR Barker's Tekumel game,
> which has been running more-or-less continuously since the early 70's has
> the best system around.
>
> "Roll up as many stats for your character as you would like. You will
> never use them."
>
> "To resolve a task, roll percentile dice. Low is good and high is bad. In
> the middle is a judgement call by the referee."
>
> I think that more space is spent in the rules describing who should bring
> what types of snack food to the gaming meetings than over details of game
> mechanics. Come to think of it, there is also a good bit of space
> dedicated to describing what the players should do while waiting for the
> players to show up who are running late.
Well, I don't use percentile dice, but this is pretty much how I play my
games. I know other people who ran their games with percentile dice this
way. It's pretty obvious, even though not enough people do it.
On snack food: during the period when I was playing the most regularly, we
were "just around the corner" from a shop. Going to the shop was a useful
break for the ref. When I was running impromptu scenarios I would use the
first half of the evening getting the PCs into a mess, work out what was
actually happening during the shop break, and set up the shoot-out during
the rest of the evening. Umm, yes, most of our sessions ended in big
shootouts - you mean yours don't?
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 01:26:10 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re DD-214
On 14 Dec 00, at 21:30, Alan Bradley wrote:
> From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
> > I also now know where they got the name for the planet Efate...:-)
>
> Yes, Andrew, you *can't* use words like Efate in public without
> explanation. Of course, I knew where Efate is too, but I'm just naturally
> clever, cute and wonderful.
To be entirely honest, I just posted a straight cut-n-paste from the entry at
DANFS (http://www.hazegrey.org). Its chock full of such wonderful capsule
histories.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 12:26:39 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: BITS adventures...
Kenneth Bearden wrote:
> One of the things that has always bugged me about Traveller
> adventures in the past was that, in general, they were more
> "adventure ideas" or "adventure outlines"
> than real, full fledged, fleshed out adventure.
Just to add a counterpoint: I've always been bugged with the
"fleshed out adventures" that I've seen over the years
(regardless of the system). While they may be fine for
tournament play they are usually too linear for more conventional
campaigns. The players in my group just deviate too much from
any path laid out for them. The more "developed" an adventure is
the less of it gets used (and thus the lower the 'value for
money'). An ideal adventure product for me has an adventure idea
or outline and a potpouri of source material snippets (which can
be recycled into other adventures if need be).
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 21:50:24 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
> From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen"
> Other pieces of trivia : Finland elects its president with direct vote.
> (Is this the right term? We have a number for each candidate, then
> everybody goes in a voting booth and writes the number of the preferred
> candidate on the paper slip and then the slip is stamped and returned.)
> If no one gets half of the accepted votes in the first round, there is
> a second round with the two leading candidates. The one who gets most
> votes here wins.
Two round voting is quite normal. A lot of countries use it. It provides
a similar result to the kind of preferential voting system used in
Australia. It's a bit fairer than "first past the post" systems, like that
used in the US.
Assigning numbers to the candidates is odder. Most systems, (I
understand), list the candidates by name, and you mark the box next to
their name.
Some friends of mine were election monitors in the last Indonesian
elections. They brought back some sample ballot papers. Each party was
represented by their party symbol. That meant that even illiterate people
could vote - you just select the picture you want.
> There are also no very big political differences between
> different parties, so we probably won't have to go to courtrooms to
decide
> elections.)
My impression is that the US has the smallest range of political
differences within their (official) political system of any "first world"
country. Basically there are two conservative parties. No other parties
matter.
Of course, I live somewhere else again, and our system isn't any/much
better...
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 12:29:28 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Getting OOP Traveller for a reasonable price ( GDW and DGP CT and MT on german EBay)
Fortunately, both Dom and Andy are on list, I'll let them email you.
Dean
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Volker Alexander Greimann [mailto:grei5001@uni-trier.de]
> Sent: 14 December 2000 11:11
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: RE: Getting OOP Traveller for a reasonable price (
> GDW and DGP
> CT and MT on german EBay)
>
>
> On 14 Dec 2000, at 10:57, Jones, Dean wrote:
>
> >
> > For more realistic prices, join BITS.
> That helps finding OOP Traveller? Cool, sign me up yesterday ;-)
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 12:51:19 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
Paul Harris wrote:
> Won't the third task war be so destructive that nothing will survive?
> Won't it bring on the dreaded 'RPG WInter'?
No, we'll end up with GAMA world ... where each game with have a
variable number of mutations (aka House Rules).
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 07:54:21 -0500
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu>
Subject: RE: "Dense, High" Atmospheres
>John P. Raynor wrote :
>> I'm not sure I understand what is meant by a "Dense, High" atmosphere.
>
>One that is both stupid and under the influence of drugs.
In retrospect, I must confess that damn near every Traveller game
I've ever been in has had this type of atmosphere. Why do *none* of
the world-generation systems out there properly reflect the high
frequency of this atmosphere type????
Kenji
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 13:28:02 +0000
From: Rob Myers <robm@h2g2.com>
Subject: Re: Re DD-214
Bislama (Vanuatu Pidgin) is different from Tok Pisin (Papuan Pidgin) in
various areas of grammar and vocabulary. They share a root language
(English...) and so when written down can look similar at first, but
jarring differences quickly emerge. They're not like British and
American English, they're more like different members of the Romance
family of languages.
Accents can even separate speakers of the same language, there's a city
in Scotland that not only defies speech recognition technology but has
two districts with mutually unintelligible accents. I've been assured of
this by both an American speech recognition specialist and a Scots
project manager...
A taste of written Bislama can be gained at Vanuatu News in Bislama:
http://www.vbtc.com.vu/vwh/bislama/vwh_bislama.html
Ken Campbell, actor, philosopher and comedian, proposes that we adopt
Bislama as a world language as part of his performance "Wol Wantok",
which includes passages from his Pidgin version of Macbeth:
http://www.king-mob.co.uk/authors/campbell.html
The historical view of Pidgin English as hysterically funny sits
uncomfortably with the history Ken gives of how it came into being. Very uncomfortably.
ObTrav: With Galanglic being pushed on native populations creolization
is bound to occur, especially on worlds with linguistically diverse
populations drawn from other systems. PCs will find their communications
with Pidgin Galanglic speakers fraught with difficulty as seemingly
innocent or offensive phrases have completely different meanings in
Pidgin ("killim" just means "hit him hard" in Bislama, for example) and
what the PCs think they're saying in perfectly clear Pidgin comes across
as "tok masta" - or offworlders mixing a few Pidgin words in with
Galanglic and expecting the dumb locals to understand. TAS provides
Pidgin lexicons, but Pidgin dialects vary even on the same world, so
travellers should excercise caution in using them.
- - Rob.
Alan Bradley wrote:
>
> An oddity: "pidgin" is spoken in Vanuatu, as well as in Papua New Guinea.
> According to some Papua New Guinean friends, the two "pidgins" are pretty
> well mutually incomprehensible. Vanuatu pidgin contains bits from French,
> and local languages, plus it is spoken with a different accent from PNG
> pidgin, which contains chunks of German, plus a different set of local
> languages. That said, the written bits of Vanuatu pidgin I have seen look
> horribly like PNG pidgin, but that is probably a result of my unfamiliarity
> with PNG pidgin. Sadly, the reliability of my friends is a bit less than
> 100% too - they may have exaggerated.
- --
Rob Myers - http://www.robmyers.org/ H2G2 - http://www.h2g2.com/
MacOS wonderfulness for The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy Game.
"Smash Global Capitalism! Spend less money!"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 08:55:41 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3388
> Understand you guys got some bad weather in Austin, too? Weird...can't wrap
> my head around the concept of snow in Texas :)
Snow further north. Down here it was ice -- sleet and freezing rain.
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 01:08:57 +1100
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re : "Dense, High" Atmospheres
Leonard Erickson wrote :-
> And Anderson had a world (sorry can't recall the name *or* the book's
> title) where the gravity was about 1.5 g, and the problem was that
> at the higher pressures in the lowlands oxygen (and nitrogen?) reached
> toxic levels for humans.
Nitrogen toxicity is far more likely (3-4 ATA for narcosis, anaesthesia
above ~10 ATA).
An atmospheric partial pressure of more than 0.3 ATA O2 is a little
unlikely given increased flammability of organic material. There may be
mitigating factors like humidity making fires difficult to initiate and
sustain, but I wouldn't like to experiment. I haven't read the book ; it
would be nice to see how Poul Anderson wrote around the problem.
> I suspect (our resident medic will have to confirm or deny it) that the
> same factors that make for resistance (or susceptibilty) to altitude
> sickness are also responsible for problems with higher than normal O2
> partial pressures.
Adapting to altitude or depth is easier if you have good heart and lung
function. In both situations, work of breathing is increased (need to
maintain blood oxygen tensions at altitude, denser gas mixtures at
depth) ; the situation is analogous to vigorous exercise.
Where a given individual lies on various dose-response curves for gases
depends on a number of difficult to quantify factors, like haemoglobin
type (oxygen affinity), ability to handle oxidative stresses (e.g.
glutathione stores), etc.
Rupert Boleyn wrote :-
> Over 2 atmospheres partial pressure Oxygen is
> throughly toxic to humans, which is why WWII-era pure O2 rebreather gear had an
> absolute depth limit of 30 feet.
>
No. The 24 hour occupational health limit is 5 hours at O2 pressures of
less than 3 ATA. Vigorous exercise could reduce this, but how long could
the rebreathers last?
Hyperbaric chambers expose subjects to 3 ATA O2 for 45 minutes at a
stretch with 5 minute air breaks ; the incidence of symptoms of oxygen
toxicity occur less than 0.2% of the time.
At a partial pressure of 4 ATA, 50% of people will fit after 30 minutes
exposure. The dose response curve is very steep.
Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3389
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3390
Date: | 12/14/00 11:30:29 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Thursday, December 14 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3390
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3388
Re: Getting OOP Traveller for a reasonable price ( GDW and DGP CTand MT on german EBay)
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3389
RE: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
RE: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
RE: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
Imperial Navy Job Description
RE: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting
RE: Imperial Navy Job Description
RE: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting
RE: FTL Physics Question
RE: Re DD-214
RE: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting
RE: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting
Re: FTL Physics Question
Re: FTL Physics Question
Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting
Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
Re: Re DD-214
RE: Imperial Navy Job Description
Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
Re: BITS adventures...
RE: Imperial Navy Job Description
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 00:01:54 -0600
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
Timothy Little wrote:
> I'll still be interested in seeing it even if I don't like it. I'm
> sure it will have some interesting new points. I might even be able
> to engage in constructive discussion about it. I'll try, at least.
Well, you're certainly welcome too. I like discussion, whether it supports or not.
We can discuss it when I'm through playtesting.
(The system uses something I call the E-Die...the Event Explosion Die...I'm betting
that might not suit your tastes either, but we'll see.)
Kenneth.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 08:31:59 -0600
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3388
GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> Snow further north. Down here it was ice -- sleet and freezing rain.
In Houston, on Monday, you could wear shorts. Tuesday, it turned cold, and we
received drizzle but not a lot of full fledged rain--the town just looked like a
clip out of Blade Runner or an old film noir flick.
Yesterday, the sun poked its head out, and although you still needed a jacket, it
was definitely getting warmer.
Today, I can tell it will be warmer than yesterday.
If you don't like the weather in Texas, just wait a minute, it will change. (and
two days a year, it might even get really cold)
Kenneth.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 08:39:49 -0600
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Getting OOP Traveller for a reasonable price ( GDW and DGP CTand MT on german EBay)
"Jones, Dean" wrote:
> For more realistic prices, join BITS.
Or, you can get the collector's books that MM and FFE are printing. If you
go to Marc's website, you'll see that the book released last year
containing all of the LLBs was just the first. He's already released the
all the adventures in one book and all the supplements in another.
From his web site, he says that FFE is going to release everything that was
previously created for Traveller by GDW--including the boxed games.
Just FYI...I'm sure this must have popped up on the list sometime in the
past...
Kenneth.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 08:51:19 -0600 (CST)
From: ybrekp@mtco.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3389
And here you thought you were escaping all of that by moving to Austin.
Welcome back to Central Illinois.
Paul Kerby
Still lost in Central Illinois
Quoting Traveller-digest <owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com>:
>
> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 08:55:41 EST
> From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
> Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3388
>
> > Understand you guys got some bad weather in Austin, too? Weird...can't
> wrap
> > my head around the concept of snow in Texas :)
>
> Snow further north. Down here it was ice -- sleet and freezing rain.
>
> LKW
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 07:31:11 -0800
From: "tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@bigfoot.com>
Subject: RE: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
I looked at it, and the classic type A drive is 10 tons, and a jump - 2
drive for a 100 ton hull is 3 tons..
Now, remember that the S-class only carries 20 tons of fuel - you would have
to pipe the fuel over from the other S-class for that to work (and it would
only work in a TU that used high guard)
YMMV in other versions.
I think that my logic still stands tho - as I was not speaking of a specific
class.. and unless that J-6 ship had drives big enuf to push an 1896 ton
ship at J6 (132 tons of jump drive to be specific - not much room for
staterooms) it simply does not work.
Assuming that you are using a over-built scout ship and you strap on another
100 ton fuel tank (you could strap a total of 333 tons of tankage to a SC
and still make J2) you could then make up to (20% of 200 = 40 tons of fuel
per jump) aprox 3 J-2's (assuming that you did not ditch parts of the drop
tanks, and that because they need a jump grid they could not accordion).
Anyways... ;)
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Jones, Dean
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 1:33 AM
To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'
Subject: RE: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
I'm pretty sure that the jump drives actually have redundant capacity for
safety reasons. I remember working out that an S-class scout could actualy
just about transport itself and another S-class. Gearhead confirmation
please.
DEan
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tsykoduk [mailto:tsykoduk@bigfoot.com]
> Sent: 13 December 2000 06:21
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: RE: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
>
>
> I don't follow your logic here.
>
> Say, you have a Jump-6 100 ton ship. It uses 60 tons of fuel
> for a jump-6.
>
> If you add a 100 ton fuel tank to it (and it has to carry it
> thru jump) then
> you cannot make a jump-6, because that J6 drive will only
> push 200 tons J3.
> So, you use 60 tons of fuel and do a J3. You then burn the
> remaining 40 tons
> in the tanks and do a J4 (as per CT dumping the tanks). You
> then burn the
> internal 60 ton stores and do one more J6 and arrive 16
> parsecs away, with
> no jump tanks a dry fuel tanks after about 3 weeks.
>
> If you add a fuel tanks to make it a 1896 ton ship, then it
> can make (J6 @
> 100 tons = aprox J0.3) using 60 tons of fuel.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> > I think he'd be better off keeping all tankage internal and
> not get into
> the whole drop
> > tank thing because of all the side-effect issues, just my opinion.
>
> Hmm, I have been thinking about this.
> If you can drop or reduce the volume of the fuel-tank then
> you can just add
> more fuel capacity and be capable of traveling further
> without refueling. A
> 100-Ton jump-6 ship could add a 167-Ton fuel-tank and make an
> extra jump-6,
> and a 444-Ton fuel-tank to make one more. The 3rd tank should
> be 1185-Ton,
> making it an 1896-Ton ship capable of traveling across a 24
> parsec rift.
> This would change the OTU, where I thing a 10 parsec rift is
> impassable
> unless you uses an STL-ship.
> Conclusion: IMTU drop-tanks and reducible fuel-tanks is
> impossible. Now I
> just have to come up with an explanation. Any suggestions?
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 15:43:34 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
>
> I think that my logic still stands tho - as I was not
> speaking of a specific
> class.. and unless that J-6 ship had drives big enuf to push
> an 1896 ton
> ship at J6 (132 tons of jump drive to be specific - not much room for
> staterooms) it simply does not work.
>
> Assuming that you are using a over-built scout ship and you
> strap on another
> 100 ton fuel tank (you could strap a total of 333 tons of
> tankage to a SC
> and still make J2) you could then make up to (20% of 200 = 40
> tons of fuel
> per jump) aprox 3 J-2's (assuming that you did not ditch
> parts of the drop
> tanks, and that because they need a jump grid they could not
> accordion).
A rather expensive option would be to have drop tanks with built in jump
grids, but that opens up whole new vistas for flame wars :)
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 16:08:42 -0000
From: Matt Bond <MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RE: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jones, Dean [mailto:Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com]
<snip>
> A rather expensive option would be to have drop tanks with
> built in jump
> grids, but that opens up whole new vistas for flame wars :)
>
> Dean
Drop tanks *do* have jump grids... That is why the gazelle can jump with
them attached, and why they are so expensive...
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 09:38:29 -0700
From: Cliff Linehan <clinehan@sfamipec.com>
Subject: Imperial Navy Job Description
Greetings All,
I am looking for information on the Imperial Navy Rank of Grand
Admiral. So far I have only the following and I wanted something more
detailed. Any help would be nice.
GRAND ADMIRAL (GADM) The supreme Naval authority for an entire domain, the
Grand Admiral answers only to the Emperor and Domain's Archduke. From the
ranks of the Fleet Admirals, the Emperor chooses the First Lord of the
Admiralty. This officer commands the entire Navy from Imperial Navy
Headquarters on Capital. The appointment is for life, and is most often
accompanied by elevation to the nobility.
Clifford Linehan
http://herons-reach.homepage.com/traveller
Developing Vlanchiets Qlom and the Core Route.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 16:46:49 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting
Steve Daniels wrote:
> Now give!
>
> For starters, what the heck does KB3 mean?
>
> Kill Bloo Three times?
Now here's a dark thought - The death penalty in a fantsy world
(for someone really bad):
1) Execute the prisoner
2) Resurrect the prisoner
3) Execute the prisoner a second time
4) Resurrect the prisoner a second time
5) Execute the prisoner for a third time
(This assumes that the *process* of execution is not plesant for
the prisoner.)
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 16:56:34 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Imperial Navy Job Description
Cliff Linehan wrote:
> GRAND ADMIRAL (GADM) The supreme Naval authority for an entire
> domain,
<snip>
> This officer commands the entire Navy from Imperial Navy
> Headquarters on Capital.
I would think that being stuck on Capital would be too far
removed from the action to be effective.
> The appointment is for life, and is most often accompanied by
> elevation to the nobility.
Surely all the Admirals are already peers. Perhaps there is a
minimum rank in the peerage to which a Grand Admiral would be
raised if he wasn't that high already?
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 11:14:32 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting
> > Now give!
> >
> > For starters, what the heck does KB3 mean?
> >
> > Kill Bloo Three times?
>
>Now here's a dark thought - The death penalty in a fantsy world
>(for someone really bad):
>
>1) Execute the prisoner
>2) Resurrect the prisoner
>3) Execute the prisoner a second time
>4) Resurrect the prisoner a second time
>5) Execute the prisoner for a third time
>
6+) Repeat process until victim's Constitution hits zero.
- -J. Jensen
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 09:09:33 -0800
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: RE: FTL Physics Question
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> > And the Lorentz transformation only applies to things which are moving
> > through our universe. Once they leave our universe, all bets are off. In
> > particular, the GR calculations which show that travelling
> faster than light
> > (in our universe) causes wierd stuff to happen really don't apply.
>
> Sorry, but you are wrong. All they care about is that the interval
> (special physics meaning of the word) between the departure and arrival
> is time like. And this is determined by the XYZT co-ordinates of the
> two events as measured by a constant velocity observer. *Any* such
> observer will get the same "interval" (space-time equivalent of
> "distance" in XYZ co-ordinates) for the same pair of events *regardless
> of his velocity.
You are trying to apply a logical system to a case where we have implicitly
violated one of the axioms. You can divide spacetime into six disjoint sets:
future timelike, past timelike, spacelike, future lightlike, past lightlike,
and the origin. A well-known property of the Lorentz transform is that it
maps each of these sets to itself. What we are assuming here is the ability
to violate this. It's like we are saying assume that the speed of light is
constant and that it is not constant at the same time, and them try to
determine what follows logically. You can't have both and be logically
consistent. That's why things get wierd. If you assume both P and not P, you
can usually prove anything that you want to.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 17:26:41 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Re DD-214
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Myers [mailto:robm@h2g2.com]
> Sent: 14 December 2000 13:28
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: Re DD-214
>
>
> Bislama (Vanuatu Pidgin) is different from Tok Pisin (Papuan
> Pidgin) in
> various areas of grammar and vocabulary. They share a root language
> (English...) and so when written down can look similar at first, but
> jarring differences quickly emerge. They're not like British and
> American English, they're more like different members of the Romance
> family of languages.
>
> Accents can even separate speakers of the same language,
> there's a city
> in Scotland that not only defies speech recognition technology but has
> two districts with mutually unintelligible accents. I've been
> assured of
> this by both an American speech recognition specialist and a Scots
> project manager...
Which city?
Ob-Trav: Speech recognition software from Reavers Deep doesn't work with
non-Caledonian accents :)
>
> A taste of written Bislama can be gained at Vanuatu News in Bislama:
>
> http://www.vbtc.com.vu/vwh/bislama/vwh_bislama.html
>
I confess my initial reaction on reading this was 'What the hell?' but
having read the Macbeth item (below) I must say I'm fascinated. I may be
purchasing some of Mr. Campbell's work soon...
> Ken Campbell, actor, philosopher and comedian, proposes that we adopt
> Bislama as a world language as part of his performance "Wol Wantok",
> which includes passages from his Pidgin version of Macbeth:
>
> http://www.king-mob.co.uk/authors/campbell.html
>
> The historical view of Pidgin English as hysterically funny sits
> uncomfortably with the history Ken gives of how it came into
> being. Very uncomfortably.
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 17:29:44 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting
James Jensen wrote:
> 6+) Repeat process until victim's Constitution hits zero.
Ooo ... even better!
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 12:43:23 -0500
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting
>>Now here's a dark thought - The death penalty in a fantsy world
>>(for someone really bad):
>>
>>1. Execute the prisoner
>>2. Resurrect the prisoner
>>3. Execute the prisoner a second time
(snip etceteras)
Been done, and not in a fantasy world: "The Eichmann Variations", George
Zebrowski. Science fiction story where Israel is a world power. When they
capture Adolf Eichmann they, through the wonders of cloning, execute him six
million times. A dark, disturbing, and IMO tasteless piece of work, but it
was nominated for a Nebula in 1984.
Cheers,
Paul Drye
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 09:52:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
Timothy Little writes:
> Sure they will. About 400 years sooner, if my calculations are
> correct. And providing relativity holds. (My earlier 130-year figure
> was wrong since I got light years confused with parsecs)
Actually, at sufficient velocity in the right direction I'm pretty sure you
can make a round trip and arrive before you left. Not sure its practical with
traveller drives, though.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 09:55:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
James Jensen writes:
> Thruster-Plates *aren't* reactionless. They don't use reaction mass, but
> they don't violate Newton's principles of action and reaction. They grab
> onto the gravity well of celestial objects (ie stars) and ride it like a
> wave. I think. Others (such as Dave Golden, if he's still here) can explain
> it better.
Unfortunately, a 'gravity well' isn't something you can grab on to. You'd be
subject to a lightspeed delay (between you and the object you're anchored to)
on any attempt to actually move. In addition, the energy requirements for
thruster plates are way too low.
>
> What CT uses would be kind of like a fusion rocket (in SSDS terms),
> wouldn't it?
Aside from the FTL exhaust, yes.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 11:55:53 -0600
From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" <sdaniels@playnet.com>
Subject: Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting
James Jensen wrote:
> 6+) Repeat process until victim's Constitution hits zero.
Then go to the plane of the god the player's soul would go
to, and trap it. Take it to a plane of opposite alignment
and sell it to demon or something.
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 09:14:01
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
At 11:21 AM 12/14/2000 +0200, you wrote:
>The Finnish law states (freely translated) that a name must not be
>offensive, to other persons, or to the name carrier, and it usually must
>be the Finnish version.
This is where my comprehension breaks down. In my family, every male is
named Douglas. Either as the first or middle name. So if I moved to
Finland and somebody found the name Douglas offensive, I couldn't give it
to my son? Or if there is Finnish version, I would have to use that?
>I still know of Rebecca, while there is a perfectly good Finnish version,
>Rebekka. This is not in my view very wise...
>There are some laws which prevent people from changing their names many
>times. This might be considered as breach of privacy and freedom, but it
>is much easier to keep track of people that way. And, as our State is not
>very corrupt and almost everybody does get something from it, almost the
>only people who change their names to something completely different from
>their given ones are criminals. This is something of an exaggaration, but
>not very far from the truth.
Let's say that my situation growing up was far, far worse than it was, and
I wanted to leave behind everything that was associated with being Douglas
Berry. I might also want to insure that my family couldn't easily track me
down. I might change my name to David Barris. I know somebody in this
situation.
>(I wonder why anybody would like to change their name to "Penguin Boy" and
>what joy would they get from it. Even while I am a Linux enthusiast. Sorry
>if I am very narrowsighted, but laws restricting for example the flow of
>information are much more confining and dangerous than naming laws.
>After all, in regular life one can use nicknames and such.)
You don't know the Joys of Penguinhood?! Anyway, we might ask Jello Biafra
about why you change your name to something odd. There was a candidiate
for Congress who changed his name to Micheal Tax-cut Ross. He still lost.
>I don't know the reasons for USA's recent scandal, but I could think that
>mostly it derives from the country being so large. (Counting machines
>seem a must there, while in Finland it is a hand count always).
Wasn't really a scandel, as a circus. In brief, there were numerous
problems with counting the vote in Florida. Since the fate of the election
lay with Florida's 25 electoral college votes, it became quite an issue,
one that hasn't been completely resolved yet.
>We are so small a country (about five million people) that a hand count is
>possible. There are also no very big political differences between
>different parties, so we probably won't have to go to courtrooms to decide
>elections.)
Well, yes. About five million folks live in the San Francisco Bay Area alone!
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 09:15:29
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Re DD-214
At 10:31 PM 12/13/2000 PST, you wrote:
> More importantly it's the form for your discharge from the service!
Ah, yes.. the beloved ETS date. Estimated Termination of Service, or
"Echo, Tango, Suitcase!"
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 10:39:59
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Imperial Navy Job Description
At 04:56 PM 12/14/2000 -0000, you wrote:
>Cliff Linehan wrote:
>> The appointment is for life, and is most often accompanied by
>> elevation to the nobility.
>
>Surely all the Admirals are already peers. Perhaps there is a
>minimum rank in the peerage to which a Grand Admiral would be
>raised if he wasn't that high already?
This actually works with what I worte in Ground Forces about Subsecotr
Marshals often being made nobles. Once in a great while there will be some
admiral who manages to make it to the top without being of good birth.. it
would be in the Imperium's best interest to see that he is properly
rewarded.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 10:53:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
Douglas E. Berry writes:
>
> You don't know the Joys of Penguinhood?! Anyway, we might ask Jello Biafra
> about why you change your name to something odd. There was a candidiate
> for Congress who changed his name to Micheal Tax-cut Ross. He still lost.
Also one who tried to change his name to None of the Above. The judge wouldn't
let him, however (yes, name changes can be illegal).
>
> Wasn't really a scandel, as a circus. In brief, there were numerous
> problems with counting the vote in Florida. Since the fate of the election
> lay with Florida's 25 electoral college votes, it became quite an issue,
> one that hasn't been completely resolved yet.
As far as it went, the problem in florida wasn't that hand counts were impractical. The problem was that florida law on hand counts was (and
still is) appallingly written.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 12:55:42 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Re: BITS adventures...
"Trevor, Peter" wrote:
>
> Kenneth Bearden wrote:
> > One of the things that has always bugged me about Traveller
> > adventures in the past was that, in general, they were more
> > "adventure ideas" or "adventure outlines"
> > than real, full fledged, fleshed out adventure.
>
> Just to add a counterpoint: I've always been bugged with the
> "fleshed out adventures" that I've seen over the years
> (regardless of the system). While they may be fine for
> tournament play they are usually too linear for more conventional
> campaigns. The players in my group just deviate too much from
> any path laid out for them. The more "developed" an adventure is
> the less of it gets used (and thus the lower the 'value for
> money'). An ideal adventure product for me has an adventure idea
> or outline and a potpouri of source material snippets (which can
> be recycled into other adventures if need be).
I pretty much agree with you Peter. Adventures that are "fleshed
out" are great to read, but the only way to use them is as a
launching point...otherwise games turn into railroading sessions,
for *me* anyway. Other folks might be able to stay on a
pre-written plot without making everybody feel like they are
being lead by the nose, but I can't seem to do it. For me, what
works best is to set up the past in detail, present the present
situation to the players, and wing the future based on how the
PCs and NPCs react.
What *I* want in a "fleshed out adventure" supplement are
deckplans, floorplans, details about systems and NPC's, and an
interesting...but openended...*start* to an adventure. If after
giving all that the supplement goes on to suggest outcomes and
further adventures in seed format, then that's gravy.
Eris
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 19:18:12 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Imperial Navy Job Description
Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> >> The appointment is for life, and is most often accompanied by
> >> elevation to the nobility.
> >
> >Surely all the Admirals are already peers. Perhaps there is a
> >minimum rank in the peerage to which a Grand Admiral would be
> >raised if he wasn't that high already?
>
> This actually works with what I worte in Ground Forces about
> Subsecotr Marshals often being made nobles. Once in a great while
> there will be some admiral who manages to make it to the top
> without being of good birth.. it would be in the Imperium's best
> interest to see that he is properly rewarded.
That's not quite what I meant. In Cliff's original post he said
that a Grand Admiral is chosen from all the Fleet Admirals. If
anyone made it to Fleet Admiral who wasn't of good birth I'd
expect them to be made a peer. So when they *then* get elevated
to Grand Admiral they are *already* a noble. (That's not to say
there wouldn't be some further "topping up" of the noble rank
with such a promotion.)
And Fleet Admirals would be promoted from Commodores. I'd expect
Commodores to be minor peers atleast. So anyone becoming a
Commodore who isn't already a minor peer would become so.
Now *what* the minimum social rank is for each military rank is
debatable.
Regards PLST
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3390
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3391
Date: | 12/14/00 3:03:22 PM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Thursday, December 14 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3391
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting
RE: Spacefaring Powers (was: "The Solomani Rim...")
Question
Re: silly gravity theory
Re: BITS adventures...
Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long)
Re: Question
Re: FTL Physics Question
Re: FTL Physics Question
Re: Mechanics
RE: Question
Re: TEDs
RE: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
Re: FTL Physics Question
Pidgin, Bislama, Creole and Ples Tok
Re: TEDs
Re: FTL Physics Question
Re: FTL Physics Question
Re: FTL Physics Question
Re: Mechanics
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 11:46:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> >There are some laws which prevent people from changing their names many
> >times. This might be considered as breach of privacy and freedom, but it
> >is much easier to keep track of people that way. And, as our State is not
> >very corrupt and almost everybody does get something from it, almost the
> >only people who change their names to something completely different from
> >their given ones are criminals. This is something of an exaggaration, but
> >not very far from the truth.
>
> Let's say that my situation growing up was far, far worse than it was, and
> I wanted to leave behind everything that was associated with being Douglas
> Berry. I might also want to insure that my family couldn't easily track me
> down. I might change my name to David Barris. I know somebody in this
> situation.
>
My current name is not at all in any way related to the name I was given
when I was adopted by the family who raised me when I was five days old,
nor is it related to the original names of my birth parents. I love my
father and stepmother, but we get on best at a distance. I have no wish
to be in contact with my "mother" whatsoever, and the name she gave me is
the name of a fantasy person who exists only in her mind, votes
Republican, is Christian, 100% heterosexual, and dresses in navy and
khaki. My first name was given to me by a very dear friend and the rest
came from other sources...
There are plenty of reasons why people choose to change their names. I
don't think that anything is more personal than what you choose to be
called or allow others to call you and it seems very unfair that anyone
would assume the right to tell you what you can and can't call yourself.
I'm glad I'm not required to have an ethnically English name because I
live in the US (I'm certainly not ethnically English, but I don't actually
think that matters-- I'm not ethnically Italian, either, and my middle
name is the name of a Tuscan goddess) and I'm also glad I'm not required
to be called something that I hate for the rest of my life because someone
I don't like very much decided I should be.
Kiri-chan ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..." -- X-JAPAN
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 11:45:15 -0800
From: "Pronto" <pronto_r031@telus.net>
Subject: Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting
> Steve Daniels wrote:
> > Now give!
> >
> > For starters, what the heck does KB3 mean?
> >
> > Kill Bloo Three times?
>
> Now here's a dark thought - The death penalty in a fantsy world
> (for someone really bad):
>
> 1) Execute the prisoner
> 2) Resurrect the prisoner
> 3) Execute the prisoner a second time
> 4) Resurrect the prisoner a second time
> 5) Execute the prisoner for a third time
>
> (This assumes that the *process* of execution is not plesant for
> the prisoner.)
>
> Regards PLST
>
I'd say that's a reasonably safe assumption.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 17:50:54 -0000
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Spacefaring Powers (was: "The Solomani Rim...")
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Stephen Tempest
> Sent: 13 December 2000 23:41
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: Spacefaring Powers (was: "The Solomani Rim...")
>
> We do all this to confuse foreigners, you know...
>
[snip]
>
> - Just to confuse things even more, the Channel Islands are not part
> of the United Kingdom - they actually form part of the historic
> Kingdom of France, and are ruled by their feudal overlord Elizabeth
> Windsor in her capacity as Duke (Duchess?) of Normandy...
>
Oooooohhh, so close...they are fees (fiefs) in the Dukedom of Normandy
(which is now in France) but not a part of France. It _could_ be
argued that they are French territory even though they have never been
in the French kingdom.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 14:17:16 -0600
From: Loren Wiseman <lkw@io.com>
Subject: Question
Gentlebeings:
What links should I put on the GURPS Traveller page that aren't there now?
Loren Wiseman
Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society http://jtas.sjgames.com/
SJ Games
lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
(512) 447-7866 VOX
(512) 447-1144 FAX
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 15:39:57 -0500
From: Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>
Subject: Re: silly gravity theory
> Anyway, the circumference for an ellipse is not easy to write down. It's
> _approximately_ 2 * pi * sqrt[(a^2 + b^2)/2], where a and b are the lengths
> of the axes. The _exact_ form involves elliptic integrals, which most
> elementary books don't cover.
Area is way easier, as you can just calculate a transformation to
turn the ellipse into an circle, calculate the area of the circle
and multiply by the determinant of the inverse of the transformation
matrix.
> For an oval, you probably need to parameterize your oval and then do an arc
> length integration.
Huh? Did I miss something - I though an oval and an ellipse
were the same thing.
BTW, to reiterate what someone already said, the inverse square law is
a byproduct of nothing more complex then geometry. Nothing past high
school math is required for this one. And to my knowledeg, there isn't
much study of why geometry is the way it is and not some other way
(i.e. spherical surface area proportional to the cube of the radius,
etc).
Ethan
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 14:59:23 -0600
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: BITS adventures...
Eris Reddoch wrote:
> Adventures that are "fleshed
> out" are great to read, but the only way to use them is as a
> launching point...otherwise games turn into railroading sessions,
> for *me* anyway. Other folks might be able to stay on a
> pre-written plot without making everybody feel like they are
> being lead by the nose, but I can't seem to do it.
It's really not a big deal...just pretend that the adventure you have
read is not fully fleshed out.
In my games, the players go and do what they want. I never prevent them
from doing anything--they have free reign.
But, a fully fleshed out adventure is beneficial because, as a GM, I
have so much more support. Many time, the players will choose to follow
the pre-established path.
In some fully fleshed adventures, there is no single predetermined
path--rather, it's a set of scenes that you can throw into the game.
The scenes are fully fleshed, and the module will give you a typical
order in which the scenes should be set, but you don't have to follow
that (like the old DGP adventures and BITS' Long Way Home--they use the
"nugget" format).
Players choose which way they want their characters to go--and that can
be radically different from what the module says you "have" to do. But,
as a GM, I can easily move predetermined, fleshed out scenes in the
player's path--whichever way they choose to go.
And, it sure is nice having all that support info there in the
book--rolled up bad guys with stats, weapons, equipment....fleshed out
NPCs giving you great ideas on how to run him....deck plans/floor plans
for you to use in major locations....pre-made random encounter charts,
custom built for the scenario at hand......fleshed out animal
encounters, if needed.....etc.
> What *I* want in a "fleshed out adventure" supplement are
> deckplans, floorplans, details about systems and NPC's, and an
> interesting...but openended...*start* to an adventure. If after
> giving all that the supplement goes on to suggest outcomes and
> further adventures in seed format, then that's gravy.
Sounds like that's what I want too...maybe our definition of a fully
fleshed out adventure is not the same.
Can you give me an example of an adventure that is too fleshed out, so
that I can get an idea of what you don't want in an adventure?
Kenneth.
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 16:16:14 -0500
From: Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>
Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long)
Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> wrote:
>
> The hydrogen may be what's used to create the opening.
Tests conducted on the external surfaces of ships entering
Jump revealed early on that space was almost instantly flooded
with pure oxygen as the jump grid was initiated. The positive
pressure makers it impossible to transition into jump space,
so something denser is needed to "push" the ship through the
opening.
The jump flash is actually the combustion of water and hydrogen
and early Terran space pioneers using jump drives noted a distinct
"flushing" sound as the ship went into jump...
Ethan
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 16:54:05 -0500
From: "SwordWorlder" <SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Question
You might add the Open Directory Traveller listing:
http://dmoz.org/Games/Roleplaying/Systems/Traveller/ 111 Traveller web
sites, and growing.
And speaking of growing, if any sites are not listed there, but should be
(in your opinion), go there and submit the URL. I promises to review and add
your suggested URLs within 48 hours.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<><~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Colin Michael, webmaster@downport.com
www.Downport.com - "The Traveller Domain"
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Loren Wiseman" <lkw@io.com>
>
> What links should I put on the GURPS Traveller page that aren't there now?
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 13:49:12 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
In mail you write:
> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>>> And the Lorentz transformation only applies to things which are
>>> moving through our universe. Once they leave our universe, all bets
>>> are off. In particular, the GR calculations which show that
>>> travelling faster than light (in our universe) causes wierd stuff
>>> to happen really don't apply.
>>
>> Sorry, but you are wrong. All they care about is that the interval
>> (special physics meaning of the word) between the departure and arrival
>> is time like. And this is determined by the XYZT co-ordinates of the
>> two events as measured by a constant velocity observer. *Any* such
>> observer will get the same "interval" (space-time equivalent of
>> "distance" in XYZ co-ordinates) for the same pair of events *regardless
>> of his velocity.
>
> You are trying to apply a logical system to a case where we have implicitly
> violated one of the axioms. You can divide spacetime into six disjoint sets:
> future timelike, past timelike, spacelike, future lightlike, past lightlike,
> and the origin. A well-known property of the Lorentz transform is that it
> maps each of these sets to itself. What we are assuming here is the ability
> to violate this. It's like we are saying assume that the speed of light is
> constant and that it is not constant at the same time, and them try to
> determine what follows logically. You can't have both and be logically
> consistent. That's why things get wierd. If you assume both P and not P, you
> can usually prove anything that you want to.
I suggest that you check into articles written on the subject be
physicts who have considered various sorts of FTL *and* relativity.
The "travel through a different space (universe) case *has* been
considered. And as I noted, all relativity cares about are the XYZT
co-ordinates at which you leave and reenter this spacetime.
You can have any two out of the the following set of three *without*
violating any axioms.
1. Relativity
2. FTL
3. strict local causality (ie cause is seen as preceeding effect in all
inertial frames)
Heck, wormholes are no different than jump drives with regards to this.
Both use a connection through a "higher space". And the physics is well
worked out.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 13:56:08 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
In mail you write:
> On Wed, Dec 13, 2000 at 08:56:18PM -0800, Luther Martin wrote:
>> Timothy Little wrote:
>>
>> > > I like to believe that relativity holds in Traveller.
>> >
>> > Even with reactionless thrusters? There are serious problems with
>> > combining relativity with reactionless thrusters (near-C rocks are the
>> > least of it, you should see some nasty stuff).
>>
>> As far as I can tell, these so-called "reactionless thrusters" are part of
>> some post-CT version, so I cheerfully ignore them.
>
> OK, no problem. What do CT ships use for getting around within a star
> system? All I know of are contragravity, thrusters, and HEPlaR
> (gack). All violate relativity's energy conditions.
I just assumed they were some sort of fusion rocket, so did the other
folks I knew back then.
>> I don't quite follow this. Even if you are going the speed of light, say
>> just like light does, that doesn't change the distance between Regina and
>> Capitol, does it?
>
> Sure it does. It's called Lorentz-Fitzgerald contraction. In your
> intertial reference frame, you are at rest and they are 6 parsecs
> apart and travelling at 99.9% of the speed of light. Relativity says
> that your inertial reference frame is as good as any other.
Alas, it also says that in their reference frame your jump takes years.
:-)
>> And the Lorentz transformation only applies to things which are moving
>> through our universe.
>
> That's right, and both Regina and Capitol are moving through our
> universe at 99.9% of the speed of light.
Yep.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 15:11:17 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Mechanics
Hey! I knew the same guy...always showed up at the garage, but never
knew when he'd show.
GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Gasp! I believe that Kenneth Bearden is attempting to convert himself into a
> > game mechanic through some strange, alchemical means. KB3 stands for Ken
> > Bearden 3! This kind of thing could shatter reality as we know it! Cool.
>
> I knew a guy who was a quantum mechanic, but I could never really be sure
> where he was at any given time . . .
>
> LKW
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 14:12:09 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: Question
Um, my site?...... :)
Jesse
"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Loren Wiseman
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 12:17 PM
> To: traveller@ient.com
> Subject: Question
>
>
> Gentlebeings:
>
> What links should I put on the GURPS Traveller page that aren't there now?
>
>
>
> Loren Wiseman
> Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
> Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
> http://jtas.sjgames.com/
> SJ Games
> lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
> (512) 447-7866 VOX
> (512) 447-1144 FAX
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 22:10:30 -0000
From: "Peter Scarrott" <peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: TEDs
This is the basic reason _most_ TED' s in TNE can be taken on by very well
trained and highly motivated high TL Troops. They may be outnumbered
overall but most coalition missions are designed to maximise tactical and
operational surprise and extend the period of advantage through decapitation
attacks on the TED's command and control. This is all designed to maximise
the _local_ superiority of Coalition missions in all areas. In general they
seek to maximise their force advantage at a very small area and for a short
space of time. this is why intelligence gathering is the single most
important aim of every mission.
- -----------------start quote---------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 15:16:08 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: TEDs
On 13 Dec 00, at 18:32, Daniel Phelps wrote:
> Kipling wrote something to the effect of "Thank God we have Vickers and
they
> do not." I personally make a great distinction between the application of
"Whatever happens, whatever not
We have the Maxim gun and they have not"
One of the great "wrong" quotes of history. Not only did the Mahdists have
Maxim guns, they had more than the British! What they lacked (and is far
more telling) was the tactical understanding of how to use them. Thus the
Mahdists MGs played no effective role in the campaign, whereas the
British MGs where desicive. The lesson from all this? All the technology in
the world won't make a difference if you don't understand it.
- --------------end quote-----------------
Peter
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk (Trav & AD&D)
peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
IMTU: tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and
miss.
Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love (By Robert.Heinlan)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 17:07:29 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: RE: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
Doug Berry wrote:
>You don't know the Joys of Penguinhood?! Anyway, we might ask Jello Biafra
>about why you change your name to something odd. There was a candidiate
>for Congress who changed his name to Micheal Tax-cut Ross. He still lost.
I couldn't find anything on Mike Tax-Cut Ross, but I do remember that there
was a Byron (Low Tax) Looper. He was a Republican who ran for a Tennesse
state Senate seat back in 1998. Not only did he lose, but he lost when there
was not a single other living candidate actually on the ballot!
The reason? Well, as it turns out (Low Tax) decided to eliminate the
competition by shooting Tommy Burks, the Democratic incumbent, to death.
(Low Tax) was already in trouble for a couple of other incidents including,
if I remember correctly, raping his girlfriend and stealing her house. As a
result, there was a write-in campaign for Burks' wife.
You happen to know any other info on Micheal Tax-Cut Ross? I absolutely
adore stupid political trivia like this.
Thanks,
Chris "Tax Hike" Seamans (who rather enjoys silly names)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 09:18:28 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> Interval is:
> i = SQRT( (t1-t2) - ( (x1-x2)^2 + (y1-y2)^2 + (z1-z2)^2 ) )
> or
> i = SQRT( (x1-x2)^2 + (y1-y2)^2 + (z1-z2)^2 - (t1-t2)^2)
>
> I can never remember which it is.
As written, the latter. I suspect you mistyped "(t1-t2)^2" in the
first one. Both are useful, just make sure you don't use them both in
the same calculation :^)
> That minus sign makes *worlds* of difference.
Indeed it does.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 08:18:45 -0800
From: "Craig Brain" <cjbrain@bigpond.com>
Subject: Pidgin, Bislama, Creole and Ples Tok
An oddity: "pidgin" is spoken in Vanuatu, as well as in Papua New Guinea.
According to some Papua New Guinean friends, the two "pidgins" are pretty
well mutually incomprehensible. Vanuatu pidgin contains bits from French,
and local languages, plus it is spoken with a different accent from PNG
pidgin, which contains chunks of German, plus a different set of local
languages. That said, the written bits of Vanuatu pidgin I have seen look
horribly like PNG pidgin, but that is probably a result of my unfamiliarity
with PNG pidgin. Sadly, the reliability of my friends is a bit less than
100% too - they may have exaggerated.
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
- ------------------------------
Alan,
The Airforce trained me to speak Bislama, the version of Pidgin used in
Vanuatu, and yes there are similarities, and the two speakers will
understand each other soon enough. I usually live in the Torres Strait where
they speak Torres Strait Creole (a combination of the East and West island
trade languages)and PNG Pidgin, which are also similar. If you speak one of
these languages, you will be able to make yourself understood to somebody
who speaks another of these languages. I see it everyday in the Torres
Strait and I saw it in PNG and Bougainville with the Army.
It gets confusing when someone introduces Ples Tok (Place Talk), the local
dialects and village languages, and then the whole thing goes out the
window.
Craig Brain
Resident of Thursday Island
Torres Strait
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 15:21:43 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: TEDs
Gerry Harris wrote:
>
> But, one of my points was that TED militaries will have studied the
> campaigns of the past. They should have a working knowledge of the
> employment of advanced weaponry -- many of them are descendents of
> Imperial or other military units and it has only been 70 years.
"Studied" <> "Used in real action when the drop troops are _in_ your
courtyard tossing flashbangs at 3AM"
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 09:38:54 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
On Wed, Dec 13, 2000 at 11:36:00PM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> However, the way jump drive works, it'd be hard to use it to go back
> in time, even though it'd be *possible* because of relativity.
I don't think it would be that hard, given relativity. If you can do
1G acceleration for a week, you can reach 2% of the speed of light.
In your reference frame, a 1-parsec jump (in the opposite direction)
taking 1 week is (in a 'galactic mean' reference frame), a 1.00008
parsec jump taking -2.4 weeks. Add 2 weeks to reverse speed and jump
again, then 1 week to slow down. Net distance travelled: 0. Net
velocity: 0. Net time taken: -0.8 weeks. That is, you arrive over 5
days before you left.
Not bad for a rusty old bucket only capable of jump-1 with only 1G
engines.
For more fun, try a purpose-built 6G ship with jump-3 engines,
accelerating for a month. I get -10 years round-trip travel time for
only 4-5 months ship time.
No, relativity is not a good thing to mix with FTL unless you're
prepared to deal with time travel.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 14:44:36 -0800
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> I suggest that you check into articles written on the subject be
> physicts who have considered various sorts of FTL *and* relativity.
>
> The "travel through a different space (universe) case *has* been
> considered. And as I noted, all relativity cares about are the XYZT
> co-ordinates at which you leave and reenter this spacetime.
>
> You can have any two out of the the following set of three *without*
> violating any axioms.
>
> 1. Relativity
> 2. FTL
> 3. strict local causality (ie cause is seen as preceeding effect in all
> inertial frames)
>
> Heck, wormholes are no different than jump drives with regards to this.
> Both use a connection through a "higher space". And the physics is well
> worked out.
You are referring to constructs which are solutions of the Einstein field
equations, like discussed in "Lorentzian Wormholes: from Einstein to
Hawking." As long as you limit the physics of jump drives to our existing
framework, things don't work. The alternative is to assume that some
different situation exists, one in which jump drives are feasible. I am
suggesting a different solution entirely. Drop the field equations.
We all "know" that such technology exists, since we all use it in our
Traveller games. And we certainly don't experience any annoying time travel
as we travel through the Spinward Marches.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 09:50:02 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
On Thu, Dec 14, 2000 at 12:24:40AM -0800, Luther Martin wrote:
> Everything I have read about relativity is based on following nice
> curves in some nice smooth space.
Find a good GR reference, and look for "characteristic surfaces".
The theory you find there should handle discontinuous spaces.
> The mathematics breaks down if you are not following one of these
> nice curves,
The mathematics doesn't care. It deals primarily with events, not
curves. The maths of SR is basically a system of coordinate
transformations. Pick any set of spacetime points at all, smooth
curve or discontinuous, or even disconnected.
For jump drives, the points are disconnected. You leave this universe
at (t1,x1,y1,z1) and re-enter at (t2,x2,y2,z2) in some set of inertial
coordinates (frames). SR tells you what the coordinates are in other
frames, and says that all frames are physically equivalent.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 17:51:51 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
Subject: Re: Mechanics
On Thu, 14 Dec 2000 00:23:45 -0500 (EST), GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
>> Gasp! I believe that Kenneth Bearden is attempting to convert himself into a
>> game mechanic through some strange, alchemical means. KB3 stands for Ken
>> Bearden 3! This kind of thing could shatter reality as we know it! Cool.
>I knew a guy who was a quantum mechanic, but I could never really be sure
>where he was at any given time . . .
But I'll bet you knew exactly how fast he was going...
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
(Ask me via email about the ILink message network!)
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3391
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Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3391
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3392
Date: | 12/14/00 4:15:47 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Thursday, December 14 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3392
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: FTL Physics Question
Re: FTL Physics Question
Re: silly gravity theory
RE: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
Re: FTL Physics Question
Re: FTL Physics Question
Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting
Re: Re : "Dense, High" Atmospheres
Re: FTL Physics Question
Re: BITS adventures...
Relativity & FTL
Re: FTL Physics Question
Reft sector X-boat link
Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting
Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting
Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
Re: FTL Physics Question
Re: FTL Physics Question
Re: Relativity & FTL
Re: Relativity & FTL
Re: FTL Physics Question
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 09:57:32 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
On Thu, Dec 14, 2000 at 09:09:33AM -0800, Luther Martin wrote:
> You are trying to apply a logical system to a case where we have
> implicitly violated one of the axioms.
Not at all. We have two spacetime events: "entering jumpspace" and
"leaving jumpspace". That's all relativity cares about.
> You can divide spacetime into six disjoint sets: future timelike,
> past timelike, spacelike, future lightlike, past lightlike, and the
> origin. A well-known property of the Lorentz transform is that it
> maps each of these sets to itself.
Which is irrelevant. In particular the "leaving jumpspace" event has
a spacelike relation to the "entering jumpspace" event. The Lorentz
transformation preserves this relation, as you correctly point out.
Care to point out where I have assumed anything at all about the
Lorentz transformation mapping the partitions onto anything but
themselves?
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 09:58:07 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
On Thu, Dec 14, 2000 at 09:52:01AM -0800, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Actually, at sufficient velocity in the right direction I'm pretty sure you
> can make a round trip and arrive before you left. Not sure its practical with
> traveller drives, though.
Easily.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 10:03:37 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: silly gravity theory
On Thu, Dec 14, 2000 at 03:39:57PM -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
> BTW, to reiterate what someone already said, the inverse square law is
> a byproduct of nothing more complex then geometry.
Pity that gravity doesn't really follow a perfect inverse-square law
then :^)
Of course, that's a little unfair. Even in general relativity, it
does depend on geometry. No, I've misstated. It *is* geometry.
> (i.e. spherical surface area proportional to the cube of the radius,
I'm sure you mean the square here, or volume instead.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 18:03:35 -0500
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu>
Subject: RE: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
Chris Seamans wrote:
> The reason? Well, as it turns out (Low Tax) decided to eliminate the
>competition by shooting Tommy Burks, the Democratic incumbent, to death.
>(Low Tax) was already in trouble for a couple of other incidents including,
>if I remember correctly, raping his girlfriend and stealing her house. As a
>result, there was a write-in campaign for Burks' wife.
Sad, sad, sad... the lurid mayhem that happens when you let typical
PCs run for office...
Kenji
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 13:58:08 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
In mail you write:
> Thruster-Plates *aren't* reactionless. They don't use reaction mass, but
> they don't violate Newton's principles of action and reaction. They grab
> onto the gravity well of celestial objects (ie stars) and ride it like a
> wave. I think. Others (such as Dave Golden, if he's still here) can explain
> it better.
Sorry, but we worked out the math for that and it doesn't *at all*
resemble the performance of thruster plates.
Pushing on the gravity well means that you have to supply the energy
for the kinetic energy change relative to the object you are pushing
on. Which means that the energy supplied to the drive goes (roughly)
like this (arbritray units, picked to make the math easier):
V KE DriveE
- ----- ------ ------
1 1 1
2 4 3
3 9 5
4 16 7
5 25 9
6 36 11
7 49 13
8 64 15
9 81 17
10 100 19
11 121 21
I trust you get the idea? If it takes 1 MJ/ton to get the ship to 1
km/sec, it'll take 9,999 MJ/ton more to get to 100 km/sec.
In essence, the faster you go, the longer it'll take any reasonable
power plant to supply the energy, so your acceleration *drops* as your
speed increases. Drops *rapidly*.
Constant acceleration by pushing on an external object quickly reaches
outrageous energy levels.
And pure reactionless drives violate conservation of energy.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 14:14:21 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
In mail you write:
> On Wed, Dec 13, 2000 at 11:16:51PM -0800, Luther Martin wrote:
>
>> Timothy Little wrote:
>> > That's right, and both Regina and Capitol are moving through our
>> > universe at 99.9% of the speed of light.
>>
>> Others, say those still on Regina, will not see the distance to Capitol
>> decrease,
>
> Who cares about them? Their frame of reference isn't the one the jump
> drives are activated from.
>
>
>> and they will not get messages from Capitol any sooner if your
>>0.999 c X-boat carries them,
>
> Sure they will. About 400 years sooner, if my calculations are
> correct. And providing relativity holds. (My earlier 130-year figure
> was wrong since I got light years confused with parsecs)
You forgot that if the jump takes a week in the ship's frame of
reference, it'll take hundreds of years in the frame of reference that
Capitol and Regina share. I can't give an exact figure since I don't
know how far apart they are in that frame.
>> but you really need to precisely define what you mean by how far and
>>how long when you start doing this.
>
> That's right. There is a formula that converts between coordinates in
> different inertial frames (the Lorentz transformations).
>
> If relativity holds, then physics (including a jump drive's operation)
> on a ship works the same, no matter what speed anything else is moving
> relative to the ship. The jump drive gives a defined set of relations
> between spacetime coordinates of departure and arrival (0-6 parsecs in
> any spatial direction and +1 week in the time direction, give or take
> a random variation).
>
> In the ship's inertial frame of reference, that can easily be arranged
> to correspond with (Regina, year 1117) while the arrival point is
> (Capitol, year about 700). Unless relativity fails in our universe as
> well as in jumpspace.
You've screwed up your math somewhere. The ship will arrive *after* it
left, not before. It takes at least *two* trips to go into the past...
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 14:24:41 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
In mail you write:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jones, Dean [mailto:Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com]
>
> <snip>
>
>> A rather expensive option would be to have drop tanks with
>> built in jump
>> grids, but that opens up whole new vistas for flame wars :)
>>
>> Dean
>
> Drop tanks *do* have jump grids... That is why the gazelle can jump with
> them attached, and why they are so expensive...
Maybe *those* drop tanks do. But "generic" drop tanks aren't intended
to be taken thru jump, so they don't have jump grids. But they do need
special construction, because pumping large amounts of LH2 *fast*
requires special gear even at high TLs.
Keep in mind that ships are supposed to *avoid* accelerating while
making a jump, and you have fun things like needing grav plates in the
drop tanks so that the fuel doesn't float around in big drops, which
can't be pumped worth beans.
Without gravity, you can't pressurize the tanks either. You'd have to
have use a pistion arrangement (at LH2 temps?!) or an inner tank that
was flexible, and a "roller" arrangement (you can't just use gas
pressure, because you could wind up with isolated "lumps" of fuel with
no place to go).
BTW, even if you *do* use "simple" gas pressure, the only gas you can
use is helium. And that's not cheap. And won't be even in the future.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 14:39:05 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting
In mail you write:
>>> Kill Bloo Three times?
>>
>>Now here's a dark thought - The death penalty in a fantsy world
>>(for someone really bad):
>>
>>1) Execute the prisoner
>>2) Resurrect the prisoner
>>3) Execute the prisoner a second time
>>4) Resurrect the prisoner a second time
>>5) Execute the prisoner for a third time
>>
>
> 6+) Repeat process until victim's Constitution hits zero.
Or the routine someone used in a campaign I was in:
Torture the prisoner until he's almost dead. Apply cure wounds until
he's reasonably healthy. Repeat until he talks...
Brrrr.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 15:02:59 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re : "Dense, High" Atmospheres
In mail you write:
> Leonard Erickson wrote :-
>> And Anderson had a world (sorry can't recall the name *or* the book's
>> title) where the gravity was about 1.5 g, and the problem was that
>> at the higher pressures in the lowlands oxygen (and nitrogen?) reached
>> toxic levels for humans.
>
> Nitrogen toxicity is far more likely (3-4 ATA for narcosis, anaesthesia
> above ~10 ATA).
>
> An atmospheric partial pressure of more than 0.3 ATA O2 is a little
> unlikely given increased flammability of organic material. There may be
> mitigating factors like humidity making fires difficult to initiate and
> sustain, but I wouldn't like to experiment. I haven't read the book ; it
> would be nice to see how Poul Anderson wrote around the problem.
I thought flammability varied with *percentage* of O2, not partial
pressure?
> Rupert Boleyn wrote :-
>> Over 2 atmospheres partial pressure Oxygen is
>> throughly toxic to humans, which is why WWII-era pure O2 rebreather gear
> had an
>> absolute depth limit of 30 feet.
>>
>
> No. The 24 hour occupational health limit is 5 hours at O2 pressures of
> less than 3 ATA. Vigorous exercise could reduce this, but how long could
> the rebreathers last?
As I recall, they were good for 8 hours. Basicly, a set of CO2
scrubbers with a system to replace oxygen as used.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 12:16:05 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
On 15 Dec 00, at 9:38, Timothy Little wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 13, 2000 at 11:36:00PM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> I don't think it would be that hard, given relativity. If you can do
> 1G acceleration for a week, you can reach 2% of the speed of light.
> In your reference frame, a 1-parsec jump (in the opposite direction)
> taking 1 week is (in a 'galactic mean' reference frame), a 1.00008
> parsec jump taking -2.4 weeks. Add 2 weeks to reverse speed and jump
> again, then 1 week to slow down. Net distance travelled: 0. Net
> velocity: 0. Net time taken: -0.8 weeks. That is, you arrive over 5
> days before you left.
The only way the Traveller universe can work is if Jump space is an
absolute frame of reference, once you accept that just soooo many of
these problems disappear.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 10:19:29 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: BITS adventures...
Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:
> Players choose which way they want their characters to go--and that
> can be radically different from what the module says you "have" to
> do. But, as a GM, I can easily move predetermined, fleshed out
> scenes in the player's path--whichever way they choose to go.
Err, no thanks. Sounds too reminiscent of "No, we don't want to go
fight the red dragon" "A red dragon lands in front of you."
>fleshed out NPCs giving you great ideas on how to run him....deck
>plans/floor plans for you to use in major locations...
This is about all I tend to be able to use from published adventures.
NPC motivations are one of the hardest things for me to get right.
Unfortunately it seems that they are also the hardest things for
adventure writers to get right, too.
>pre-made random encounter charts, custom built for the scenario at
>hand
These tend to be based on very different assumptions and are about the
first to go.
>fleshed out animal encounters, if needed...
These might be useful in case I ever needed them. Sometime.
> > What *I* want in a "fleshed out adventure" supplement are
> > deckplans, floorplans, details about systems and NPC's, and an
> > interesting...but openended...*start* to an adventure.
Yep, this is pretty similar to my tastes. Particularly complex NPCs
with history and motivations, not just "smuggler with XYZ stats and W
attitude".
> Can you give me an example of an adventure that is too fleshed out, so
> that I can get an idea of what you don't want in an adventure?
If Eris can't, I'll dig out a few of my old adventure books and
Challenge articles to remind myself why they didn't work, and post an
analysis.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 17:17:44 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Relativity & FTL
With all this talk about FTL physics flying around, something just popped
out at me. I don't think FTL = Time Travel.
The thing is that we don't know the *exact* effects of FTL travel.
Relativistic formulae don't help because their math quickly degenerates into
crud (it's still impossible to square-root a negative number). But I assume
that the *effects* postulated would continue to apply.
So, at c, from your reference, time in the outside universe would a stop,
and the universe's measurements would be zero. And its mass would be
infinite (but we won't get into that). From the universe's POV, the opposite
would be true.
If your speed is greater than c, the contractions will continue and the
universe and you will begin to expand again - backwards. To simulate this,
take a sock that has had the toe cut off. Make it as flat as you can
lengthwise. That's it at c speed. Now, pull on the edges of the holes toward
the the other side. The sock is now inside out, making the ends on the
opposite sides from where they started. It's not the best example (the ship
wouldn't be inside out), but it works.
But you're still going at the same speed and direction. So you're going
backward. But, time is also going backward, so you're effectively still
going in the same direction you were to begin with.
Any comments?
- -J. Jensen
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 10:26:57 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
On Thu, Dec 14, 2000 at 02:14:21PM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> You forgot that if the jump takes a week in the ship's frame of
> reference, it'll take hundreds of years in the frame of reference that
> Capitol and Regina share. I can't give an exact figure since I don't
> know how far apart they are in that frame.
Actually about -400 years. (I think they're about 140 parsecs apart)
of course if it was travelling in the opposite direction it would be
+400 years (barely FTL at all). That's probably the case you're
thinking of.
> You've screwed up your math somewhere. The ship will arrive *after*
> it left, not before. It takes at least *two* trips to go into the
> past...
It only takes two trips if it wants to get into its own past
lightcone. It isn't doing that, so it isn't really going into its own
past.
Well, I suppose in one sense it is, but that's only because other
ships can carry messages (at FTL speeds) from Capital to Regina.
There's your second trip -- those other ships.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 00:31:00 +0100
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Reft sector X-boat link
Kjeld Johansen writes:
>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
>>Even if IYTU (In Your Traveller Universe) the Vargr are strong enough and
>>organized enough to cause trouble in Corridor, are they also strong enough
>>to interfere with major defenses? If not, the IISS should be able to work out
>>a route that goes through systems with high-population worlds and naval
>>bases only. Or one running along the rimward edge of Corridor sector where the
>>Vargr are unlikely to come. Or communication through Corridor might be turned
>>over to the IN if the Scouts can't do it.
>
>Yes, the Imperial Navy can force the Xboat through, and they also have to
>use resources protecting the trade through Corridor.
Well, they can use the same resources for both. Jump travel is fundamentally
different from the sea travel we all pretty much unconciously think of when we
think of trade routes. The proper sea travel analogy would be to imagine that
ships could teleport from a few miles outside one port to a few miles outside
another port (Though jump shadowing does complicate things somewhat). Anyway,
the IN would only have to guard a few spots in each system in order to guard a
trade route. There is no need to escort each merchant. And the same guard ships
would safeguard those spots for X-boat travel.
>But it would be nice, if they had an alternative route.
That's true enough.
>My goal is to increase the importance of the Island Kingdoms, and the story
>about Oekhsos The Leader (G: Behinnd the Claw p. 135-136 “Oekhsos is the
>single greatest threat to the citizens of the Imperium to emerge this
>decade”) fits nicely into this.
Well, it doesn't make much sense IMO[*], but that's just an opinion.
[*] In fact, it's one of the DGP bits I would just as soon have seen dead and
buried. ;-(
Hans
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 17:39:13 -0600
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting
James Jensen wrote:
>
> > > Now give!
> > >
> > > For starters, what the heck does KB3 mean?
> > >
> > > Kill Bloo Three times?
> >
> >Now here's a dark thought - The death penalty in a fantsy world
> >(for someone really bad):
> >
> >1) Execute the prisoner
> >2) Resurrect the prisoner
> >3) Execute the prisoner a second time
> >4) Resurrect the prisoner a second time
> >5) Execute the prisoner for a third time
> >
>
> 6+) Repeat process until victim's Constitution hits zero.
You're better off using Raise Dead (under AD&D1 rules). Resurrect ages
the cleric three years a pop.
ObTrav: Not a blessed thing....
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 17:46:56 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting
> You're better off using Raise Dead (under AD&D1 rules). Resurrect ages
> the cleric three years a pop.
>
> ObTrav: Not a blessed thing....
LOL! Nice one. Now, let's see if anyone else gets it.
- -J. Jensen
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 17:51:58 -0600
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
Kenji Schwarz wrote:
>
> Chris Seamans wrote:
>
> > The reason? Well, as it turns out (Low Tax) decided to eliminate the
> >competition by shooting Tommy Burks, the Democratic incumbent, to death.
> >(Low Tax) was already in trouble for a couple of other incidents including,
> >if I remember correctly, raping his girlfriend and stealing her house. As a
> >result, there was a write-in campaign for Burks' wife.
>
> Sad, sad, sad... the lurid mayhem that happens when you let typical
> PCs run for office...
PCs run for office in your campaigns? It's been my experience that PCs
usually stage coups d'etat.
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 10:53:17 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> Alas, it also says that in their reference frame your jump takes years.
> :-)
Nah, that sort of time dilation only applies to timelike intervals.
Jump entry and exit are separated by a spacelike interval, which means
the time component can be positive, zero, or negative depending upon
the angle between the velocity vector and the space component of the
spacelike interval.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 10:57:12 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
> The only way the Traveller universe can work is if Jump space is an
> absolute frame of reference, once you accept that just soooo many of
> these problems disappear.
Yep, that's what I do. Relativity is false IMTU; it's just a useful
approximation.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 15:56:10 -0800
From: "Jeffrey Yin" <jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu>
Subject: Re: Relativity & FTL
Just one for me. What frame of reference is that?
Jeffrey Yin
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 3:17 PM
Subject: Relativity & FTL
> With all this talk about FTL physics flying around, something just popped
> out at me. I don't think FTL = Time Travel.
>
> The thing is that we don't know the *exact* effects of FTL travel.
> Relativistic formulae don't help because their math quickly degenerates
into
> crud (it's still impossible to square-root a negative number). But I
assume
> that the *effects* postulated would continue to apply.
>
> So, at c, from your reference, time in the outside universe would a stop,
> and the universe's measurements would be zero. And its mass would be
> infinite (but we won't get into that). From the universe's POV, the
opposite
> would be true.
>
> If your speed is greater than c, the contractions will continue and the
> universe and you will begin to expand again - backwards. To simulate this,
> take a sock that has had the toe cut off. Make it as flat as you can
> lengthwise. That's it at c speed. Now, pull on the edges of the holes
toward
> the the other side. The sock is now inside out, making the ends on the
> opposite sides from where they started. It's not the best example (the
ship
> wouldn't be inside out), but it works.
>
> But you're still going at the same speed and direction. So you're going
> backward. But, time is also going backward, so you're effectively still
> going in the same direction you were to begin with.
>
> Any comments?
>
> -J. Jensen
>
____________________________________________________________________________
_________
> Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
http://explorer.msn.com
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 11:07:54 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Relativity & FTL
On Thu, Dec 14, 2000 at 05:17:44PM -0600, James Jensen wrote:
> If your speed is greater than c, the contractions will continue and the
> universe and you will begin to expand again - backwards.
Well if you really want the effects to be relativistic, it's
timewards, not backwards. Your time becomes the outside universe's
space (in the direction of travel) and vice versa.
I've had a fair bit of fun looking at the electrodynamics of
interactions between bits of tachyonic matter, and with normal matter.
Very interesting.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 15:48:43 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
In mail you write:
> On Wed, Dec 13, 2000 at 11:36:00PM -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> However, the way jump drive works, it'd be hard to use it to go back
>> in time, even though it'd be *possible* because of relativity.
>
> I don't think it would be that hard, given relativity. If you can do
> 1G acceleration for a week, you can reach 2% of the speed of light.
> In your reference frame, a 1-parsec jump (in the opposite direction)
> taking 1 week is (in a 'galactic mean' reference frame), a 1.00008
> parsec jump taking -2.4 weeks. Add 2 weeks to reverse speed and jump
> again, then 1 week to slow down. Net distance travelled: 0. Net
> velocity: 0. Net time taken: -0.8 weeks. That is, you arrive over 5
> days before you left.
Where do you get a -2.4 weeks for the duration?
> No, relativity is not a good thing to mix with FTL unless you're
> prepared to deal with time travel.
It's easy to deal with time travel. It's causality that gets tricky.
And as long as you preserve global causality, you can deal with
violations of local causality. See Forward's novel "Timemaster" for
examples, and references to papers.
Rather like Lieber's short story "Try and Change the Past".
The way I'd play it is that the players *can* go back, but they can't
change *anything* that their pre-trip-to-the-past selves saw or were
affected by.
If you are feeling mean, have the PCs' future selves come back and tell
them something. Then they *will* go back and tell their past selves
that. And they can't do anything to prevent it.
Even more fun if one of the players shoots his future self, or sees his
future self get shot... <eg>
This would also explain *why* nobody messes with time travel.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3392
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3393
Date: | 12/14/00 6:21:18 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Thursday, December 14 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3393
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Question
Re: FTL Physics Question
RE: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting
More Task System Heresy
RE: Imperial Navy Job Description
Re: More Task System Heresy
RE: Question
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3391
QMs
Re: Dangerous Kobolds was: Re: TEDs
Re: Question
Re: BITS adventures...
Re: BITS adventures...
Re: TEDs
Re: More Task System Heresy
Re: FTL Physics Question
Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
Re: More Task System Heresy
Fw: Who's Who in the Spinwards a Possible Entry
Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
Re: Who's Who in the Spinwards a Possible Entry
Aw crap..... was:RE: Question
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 15:56:20 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Question
In mail you write:
> Um, my site?...... :)
Which is? :-)
ps. do you have the video up yet?
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 15:45:13 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
In mail you write:
> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> I suggest that you check into articles written on the subject be
>> physicts who have considered various sorts of FTL *and* relativity.
>>
>> The "travel through a different space (universe) case *has* been
>> considered. And as I noted, all relativity cares about are the XYZT
>> co-ordinates at which you leave and reenter this spacetime.
>>
>> You can have any two out of the the following set of three *without*
>> violating any axioms.
>>
>> 1. Relativity
>> 2. FTL
>> 3. strict local causality (ie cause is seen as preceeding effect in all
>> inertial frames)
>>
>> Heck, wormholes are no different than jump drives with regards to this.
>> Both use a connection through a "higher space". And the physics is well
>> worked out.
>
> You are referring to constructs which are solutions of the Einstein field
> equations, like discussed in "Lorentzian Wormholes: from Einstein to
> Hawking." As long as you limit the physics of jump drives to our existing
> framework, things don't work. The alternative is to assume that some
> different situation exists, one in which jump drives are feasible. I am
> suggesting a different solution entirely. Drop the field equations.
>
> We all "know" that such technology exists, since we all use it in our
> Traveller games. And we certainly don't experience any annoying time travel
> as we travel through the Spinward Marches.
We don't see time travel because we don't have observers moving at a
high fraction of c relative to the stars and planets in the Imperium.
If we did, we would.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 00:07:31 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:
> Or the routine someone used in a campaign I was in:
>
> Torture the prisoner until he's almost dead. Apply cure wounds
> until he's reasonably healthy. Repeat until he talks...
Okay, if we're going down that path: Make the victim immortal and
regenerating, then lock him forever in the deepest dungeon with a
Lament Configuration puzzle box!
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 18:15:08 -0600
From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" <sdaniels@playnet.com>
Subject: More Task System Heresy
Here's a "what if" Eris, Kenneth and any other
mech-heads who want to jump in. If it's an old
idea, well, sorry I missed it.
What if . .
Skill levels were Dice?
Your stats are static. Generally, you're not
Str A one day and Str 4 the next. But *executing*
a skill can be variable. Having a bad day, encountered
something slightly different, etc. You might just "screw
the pooch".
Stat + Skill Level Dice vs. Target number
Target numbers:
- Easy 5
- Routine: 9
- Difficult 13
- Hard 17
- Harder 21
- Really Hard 25
- So Hard You Wouldn't Believe It 29
Average Joe (777777), who always rolls 3.5 (don't ask me how)
Mechanic-1
Electronics-2
Computer-3
For a Mechanic task: 7 + 3.5 = 10.5 [Range 8-13]
- Routine: 10.5 > 9 Success! (Fails on a 1)
- Difficult: 10.5 < 13 Failure! (Succeeds on a 6)
For Electronics: 7 + 7 = 14 [Range 9-19]
- Difficult: 14 > 13 Success! (Fails on 4-)
- Hard: 14 < 17 Failure! (Succeeds on 10+)
For Computers: 7 + 10.5 = 17.5 [Range 10 - 25]
- Hard: 17.5 > 17 Success! (Fails on 10-)
- Harder: 17.5 < 21 Failure! (Succeeds on 14+)
For opposed task, the Target number is the opposers
Stat + Skill Level Dice, then compare results as Eris suggested
earlier.
Yes, I am making this up as a write.
Maybe you can choose the amount of Skill dice you want to use?
Using them all might cause fatigue or mental exhaustion?
Just thinking out loud here.
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 09:47:33 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: RE: Imperial Navy Job Description
> From: "Trevor, Peter"
> That's not quite what I meant. In Cliff's original post he said
> that a Grand Admiral is chosen from all the Fleet Admirals. If
> anyone made it to Fleet Admiral who wasn't of good birth I'd
> expect them to be made a peer. So when they *then* get elevated
> to Grand Admiral they are *already* a noble. (That's not to say
> there wouldn't be some further "topping up" of the noble rank
> with such a promotion.)
>
> And Fleet Admirals would be promoted from Commodores. I'd expect
> Commodores to be minor peers atleast. So anyone becoming a
> Commodore who isn't already a minor peer would become so.
The other possibility is that Grand Admiral is a position, and not just a
rank. That is, "anyone" can be promoted to "Grand Admiral of Deneb",
without necessarily being a Naval officer at all. (Obviously such an
"anyone" would be a noble.)
In this situation, "Grand Admiral of X" means "commander of the fleets in
X". An appointed noble would, of course be expected to pay a *lot* of
attention to what their professional subordinates are saying.
Why would the Imperium want to interpose a civilian into the Naval chain of
command in this way? Well, that's the start of a story, isn't it?
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 16:27:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: More Task System Heresy
Steve (Bloo) Daniels writes:
> What if . .
>
> Skill levels were Dice?
Skill levels become more important than stats (probably good)
Luck is more important at high skill than at low (which is probably bad).
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 16:30:36 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: Question
Sorry, thought everyone knew it. It's:
http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/trav_welcome.htm
Trickiest thing about the site right now is tables, so it's not THAT hard to
hit ;) It does have an obscene amount of graphics thumbnails in the gallery
though. Hope your connections fast. Otherwise, it may take a minute or two
to load on a slow modem.
As for the video, not yet. I'm out of room on my hdd's at home (50+gigs!!!)
so I'll have to do the videos as machine time permits on the capture station
here at work. I DID however do screen-caps from the video already. They're
just dumped in a folder on my site at the moment. No thumbs, no html, so go
to:
http://vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/shooting/dec00-shoot/
I grabbed all the best frames :) You're in there firing that 20mm cannon
Leonard!
Jesse
"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 3:56 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: Question
>
>
> In mail you write:
>
> > Um, my site?...... :)
>
> Which is? :-)
>
> ps. do you have the video up yet?
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 19:31:01 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3391
Kiri-chan wrote:
> I'm glad I'm not required to have an ethnically English name because I
> live in the US
What ethnicity is the US anyway? My father used to say you could pick any
ethic group you cared to and there were at least 250,000 of them in Chicago .
. . and they all voted Democratic. I swear the place has street signs in
Samoan in some neighborhoods.
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 19:38:22 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: QMs
> >I knew a guy who was a quantum mechanic, but I could never really be sure
> >where he was at any given time . . .
>
> But I'll bet you knew exactly how fast he was going...
Why yes . . . however did you know? : )
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 00:43 +0000 (GMT)
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
Subject: Re: Dangerous Kobolds was: Re: TEDs
In-Reply-To: <E146XDz-0007DY-00@pizza.st.net.au>
Greetings dear hearts.
The real problem is when you meet FRENCH-SPEAKING reasonably organised
Kobolds wearing Napoleonic-style uniforms.
I have. I survived (just)... ran away and ended up being captured by
goblins. Rest of the party perished. Oh well. Charmed the boss goblin and
ended up his Most Valued Counsellor (his capitals). Now being continued by
e-mail post convention.
You don't want to know who the DM was.
Hugs and kisses,
Mexal.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 00:43 +0000 (GMT)
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
Subject: Re: Question
In-Reply-To: <l03010d17b65edb18ad9f@[206.224.92.67]>
Greetings dear hearts.
I too would like to hear of some good ones, as I (for my sins) have been
tasked with rewriting the RPGA UK website's system links pages.
Who told them I earn my keep as a webmeister? Grrr....
Hugs and kisses,
Mexal.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 00:43 +0000 (GMT)
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
Subject: Re: BITS adventures...
In-Reply-To: <3A382869.17D2DFC7@elc.net>
Greetings dear hearts.
I like well-detailed adventures... as an inspiration, something to aim at
when writing my own.
I quite enjoy collecting other people's materials, but rarely - except
when DMing at RPGA tournaments - run other folk's games (as I wrote
something on the order of 10% of last Gen Con UK's tournaments even then
it doesn't always happen!). I just cannot stop writing, sometimes I think
if I stopped writing now it would take about 5 years to work through
what's already there :-)
BITS produce excellent stuff. Well worth a read even if you have the time
and inclination to create your own scenarios.
In fact one of my Gen Con UK games was TRAVELLER. Now we (RPGA head on)
have a deal that BITS provides TRAVELLER tournaments for that convention,
so I passed it on to them (or is that, us - I am a member of them too!). I
really liked what they did with it :-)
So, for a fine example of what a TRAVELLER adventure can be, go read a
BITS adventure... even if you then turn round and use your own ideas
instead.
Hugs and kisses,
Mexal.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 00:43 +0000 (GMT)
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
Subject: Re: BITS adventures...
In-Reply-To: <3A3934AA.3A348EE2@brokersys.com>
Greetings dear hearts.
When running a game (any system) I design the setting (world, city,
universe, whatever), populate it with assorted beings who all have their
own plots and plans and objectives and desires...
then drop the players in and say "OK, here's the world, interact with it"
The stuff that makes the average 'tournament scenario' is abstracted from
that, it's the plot that a given individual NPC (or group thereof) comes
up with, given the ramifications and more programmed interaction points
and what have you.
In a regular club/home game there are at least 5 or so of these running
concurrently. I leave it to the players to decide which if any strand
they'd like to follow.
Seems to work: they are always asking for more... :-)
Hugs and kisses,
Mexal.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 00:52:40 -0000
From: "Peter Scarrott" <peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: TEDs
The competent military TEDs may have studied the campaigns of the past, but
the ones who have easy superiority through sole control of (relatively) Hi
Tech weaponry won't need to. They can simply steamroller the opposition, no
need for subtlety. As for being the descendants of military units, how many
of these units were truly professional and experienced at training by the
end of the rebellion? not many, most units were amalgams of survivors and
according Hard Times were out for themselves. Such an organisation will be
more interested in survival, infighting and living it up to spend 70 yrs
ensuring high standards of training and maintenance.
Another sudden thought, where did these people get the materials to study
campaigns of the past if the world was reasonably High Tech most of the data
would be only available via Computer and is now either destroyed or
infected. Many planets will have very little factual knowledge of the past
and may be entering a time where the Imperium is legend and hearsay.
Remember the awful die offs most worlds suffered. people were more
interested in food and safety than books, or learning.
- -----------------start original ------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 02:02:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: TEDs
But, one of my points was that TED militaries will have studied the
campaigns of the past. They should have a working knowledge of the
employment of advanced weaponry -- many of them are descendents of
Imperial or other military units and it has only been 70 years
- --------------end original -------------------
just my .25Cr.
Of course this means that the competent, well organised TED is _very_
dangerous, and as another poster commented, will probably develop into a
competing pocket Empire.
Peter
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk (Trav & AD&D)
peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
IMTU: tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and
miss.
Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love (By Robert.Heinlan)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 18:53:46 -0600
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: More Task System Heresy
"Steve (Bloo) Daniels" wrote:
> What if . .
>
> Skill levels were Dice?
>
> Your stats are static. Generally, you're not
> Str A one day and Str 4 the next. But *executing*
> a skill can be variable. Having a bad day, encountered
> something slightly different, etc. You might just "screw
> the pooch".
That is very close to KB3 thinking....
> Stat + Skill Level Dice vs. Target number
That is not.
Although I did try this a couple of years ago before I unsubbed from the
TML. Skill Level gives you dice. You add your stat in.
I found two things that made me throw it out: (1) You have to deal in
very high numbers, which makes the game too complex (i.e. Stat 13 dude
with a skill 4 will have to roll 4D + 13....shit!).
(2) You'll end up with throws that fall outside of an acceptible range
of results (i.e. your low skill and default throw will be really LOW,
and you'll have no hope of ever throwing anything on the high end....and
your high skill level throws will be very, very HIGH, where even if you
bricked the roll, you'll be throwing much higher than a low skill dude
could ever throw.
I'll show you what I mean using your target number chart.
> Target numbers:
> - Easy 5
> - Routine: 9
> - Difficult 13
> - Hard 17
> - Harder 21
> - Really Hard 25
> - So Hard You Wouldn't Believe It 29
>
> Average Joe (777777), who always rolls 3.5 (don't ask me how)
> Mechanic-1
> Electronics-2
> Computer-3
I'll use your example Average Joe too.
If he wants to throw a Routine Computer task, he'll throw 3D + 7, for a
range of 10-25.
That means the guy will automatically succeed in Easy throws and Routine
throws...AND, he'll have a 95% chance of throwing a Difficult task
(given your difficulty table and your Average Joe)....a 63% chance of
throwing a Hard task...a 16% chance of throwing a Harder task...a less
than 1% chance of throwing a Really Hard task....and no chance of
throwing a SHYWBI task.
Easy....100%
Routine....100%
Difficult....95%
Hard....63%
Harder....16%
Really Hard....>1%
SHYWBI....0%
See how the chance of success is basically a flat line through Easy,
Routine, and Difficult...then it just nose dives.
The success chance does not spread out well in a system like this (I
know--I've tried to make it work). You can come up with numbers that do
a decent job of spreading out success with this character, but the same
difficulty chart will be a nightmare for another character.
There's no way to find a good medium with this system.
> Maybe you can choose the amount of Skill dice you want to use?
And, that is an option in KB3. Higher skill gives he player more
options.
Kenneth.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 02:12:52 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
AuricTech Shipyards wrote:
> Can any of our resident physicists answer this question?
No rod can be perfectly rigid. Ever.
What really happens:
Imagine the rod as a long row of marbles connected by chewing gum. Pull
in one end, and you'll get a chain reaction (a wave, even) throughout
the rod. Pull to hard and the chewing gum will break.
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 20:29:00 -0500
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
John Groth wrote:
> > > The reason? Well, as it turns out (Low Tax) decided to
>eliminate the
>> >competition by shooting Tommy Burks, the Democratic incumbent, to death.
>> >(Low Tax) was already in trouble for a couple of other incidents including,
>> >if I remember correctly, raping his girlfriend and stealing her house. As a
>> >result, there was a write-in campaign for Burks' wife.
>>
>> Sad, sad, sad... the lurid mayhem that happens when you let typical
>> PCs run for office...
>
>PCs run for office in your campaigns? It's been my experience that PCs
>usually stage coups d'etat.
Safer for bystanders, and probably less morally questionable.
And in our dear real world, what a shame! If only there had been an
active Traveller gaming group in Low Tax's neighborhood, he would
have had a safe, supportive, friendly, and infinitely rewarding venue
to blow off his adolescent revenge & power fantasies! (And one of
those drug drug huffing brain-sucking welfare queen democrat types
coulda had the office in his place.) We should all take this as a
lesson, and go out into our communities and start Trav games for the
benefit of troubled public figures.
(I hear Bill & Al are looking for an Excellent Adventure.)
Kenji
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 02:31:27 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: More Task System Heresy
Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:
> See how the chance of success is basically a flat line through Easy,
> Routine, and Difficult...then it just nose dives.
>
> The success chance does not spread out well in a system like this (I
> know--I've tried to make it work). You can come up with numbers that do
> a decent job of spreading out success with this character, but the same
> difficulty chart will be a nightmare for another character.
>
> There's no way to find a good medium with this system.
When a die is rolled and it comes up as a 6, replace it with two dice.
Repeat until sick.
(stolen from Eon, a Swedish RPG).
Works quite well. You'll need to change the target numbers a bit though.
The average roll on on such die is (IIRC) 4.2 or something close to
that. I could probably calculate it for you if it wasn't 2:30 AM here...
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 20:28:59 -0500
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net>
Subject: Fw: Who's Who in the Spinwards a Possible Entry
The Artist
Provide Name as desired (I call him Rubens), Profession: Artist/Art Forger
Milieu: Any Sector: Any
Human male apparently in his mid to early 30’s
He looks like an artist in search of his muse. He wears the right togs and
has the patter down pat. He is best known for working in what is know in
the trade as traditional primative medium. He has an eye for detail and he
can paint but the starving artist gig is just not for him. He first started
forging by creating “aboriginal” art; masks, totems that sort of thing for
the retro gallery trade. That is still his stock in trade. You name the
planet or culture in the Spinwards and he can come up with the “primative”
to match it. He has a working knowledge of the art, culture and religions
of virtually all the inhabited or formerly inhabited systems in the
Spinwards. He makes steady money turning out fake Droyne coin sets. What is
generally not known is that he is a wiz with one off computer generated
forgeries as well.
His origins are straightforward, he studied at the Art Institute of Regina.
Graduated with BA in Art, had little prospects and continued his studies
with a Master’s in Art History. Then he drifted. Trading on his
university contacts he was the personal companion of a succession of well
placed nobles. He thus gained intro to more lucrative markets for his
creations. He then split his time between “collecting trips” during which he
actually cracked out fakes and gallery promotions. He has recently gotten
ambitious and started forging fake “ancients” artifacts. Big mistake, now
somebody wants him. Who and why is not clear, all he knows is that if they
find him his chances of a happy out come appear to be minimal at best.
He might be encountered in a bar or in a park doing sketches. If the PCs
control, own or serve as crew on a star ship he may seek working passage
either as a steward or at the computer. His papers are very good as are his
references; they should be, as he forged them himself. He has a substantial
amount of luggage.
Why is he being pursued? It might be an unhappy customer who has discovered
that he has been swindled. It might be an irate husband, brother or father.
It might be a collector after his source of “ancient” artifacts. It might
just be galloping paranoia on his part, as perhaps not all the ancient
“artifacts” he has are fakes.
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 02:37:56 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
Kenji Schwarz replied to John Groth:
> >PCs run for office in your campaigns? It's been my experience that PCs
> >usually stage coups d'etat.
>
> Safer for bystanders, and probably less morally questionable.
And your PCs care about bystanders? Or morals? I call your bluff!
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se | of Linkoeping, Sweden |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745 | (computer science/tech.) |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male *
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 20:49:46 -0500
From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: Who's Who in the Spinwards a Possible Entry
Daniel Phelps wrote:
>
>The Artist
>
>Provide Name as desired (I call him Rubens), Profession: Artist/Art Forger
>Milieu: Any Sector: Any
<snip>
Nice "casual encounter" NPC -- I'm filing this one away for future use.
Trent
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 18:08:39 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: Aw crap..... was:RE: Question
I just had an opportunity to capture all the video, but found out something
bad. While the camera I have is very hi-zoot and has *great* video & audio
(it's a Canon XL-1), those very features can come back and bite you on the
ass. I've got all the video all right, but no audio. You see, I use that
camera here at work all the time, but we always use a seperate studio
microphone setup, and I had the on-board microphone turned off!!!!!!!!!!!
!+)@*(%+(*&#$_)(&@_$#_%+_)(!*@#%+@#_+$^@#_+%^(!#_)_!^_*&~@+(+#(^)(*#*&!_#@(*
+)(!&#^_(*@$^&_!(@#*%+_!#_*@!$&*@&#_%(*$*)~@)$*+)(#&^_+^!(*#@+$(&^+_)(&!#+%(
*~@)*+~@*%#&!^+)(&@!$+^(&+!+!(&$#_+&@+$*~+@$*+~@_&$*&$)_!#%+~@(*)%+(!&#^+*&%
)(*^&_W)$&^+@$*(%+!)@#(+~)(@+$*!#^+(&@+$*~#(&^_(*$&@_(&^%+~@*($+~)(*@+%(&*+_
)$^+)(@!&#$^_*(&#^+)(!*#$~@($+~*(+$*~@+%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(The above is a direct quote heard from me in the video lab when I realized
this)
<sigh> So, I've got great video, but no audio. It's a damn shame too,
'cause there were some GREAT comments by Mark Cook and others.
Sheepishly,
Jesse
"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
> As for the video, not yet. I'm out of room on my hdd's at home
> (50+gigs!!!)
> so I'll have to do the videos as machine time permits on the
> capture station
> here at work. I DID however do screen-caps from the video
> already. They're
> just dumped in a folder on my site at the moment. No thumbs, no
> html, so go
> to:
> http://vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/shooting/dec00-shoot/
> I grabbed all the best frames :) You're in there firing that 20mm cannon
> Leonard!
>
> Jesse
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3393
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3394
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Traveller-digest Friday, December 15 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3394
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Dangerous Kobolds was: Re: TEDs
Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link.
Re: FTL Physics Question
Re: Relativity & FTL
Re: More Task System Heresy
Re: Aw crap..... was:RE: Question
Re: More Task System Heresy
Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology
Re: Relativity & FTL
The New Traveller Task System
Re: The New Traveller Task System
Re: FTL Physics Question
Re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology
Re: The New Traveller Task System
Re: FTL Physics Question
RE: More Task System Heresy
RE: More Task System Heresy
RE: More Task System Heresy
RE: Aw crap..... was:RE: Question
Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 20:21:48 -0600
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Dangerous Kobolds was: Re: TEDs
Alan Bradley wrote:
>
> No. Kobolds are the only disciplined and tactically minded monster. It's
> a consequence of them being individually such wimps. PCs get *really*
> snaky when they get bounced by Kobolds. : )
OTOH, one can drive PCs truly crazy by giving them ignorant kobold
prisoners to interrogate, if one assumes the following:
1. Since kobolds have relatively small brains, they are unlikely to
develop sophisticated mathematic concepts on their own. (Some
individual kobolds can _understand_ sophisticated mathematics, _if_
someone teaches them.)
2. Specifically, non-leader kobolds are unable to count above three
(two arms, plus one tail, equals three). Any number greater than three
is considered "many."
3. Therefore, interrogating captured kobolds is a frustrating
experience for trained military intelligence professionals (from whose
ranks most of the RPGers of my acquaintance have sprung).
"Describe the area where your tribe's warband is camped."
<kobold describes area fairly accurately, allowing the PCs to plot the
site on a map>
"How many of your tribe's warriors are camped at this location?"
"Many."
"How many is 'many'?"
"I don't understand. Many is _many_."
"Can you count 'many'?"
"Yes." <waves each arm, then tail, with each counted number> "One, two,
three, many."
Note that this lack of mathematical comprehension does not prevent the
kobolds from implementing reasonable tactics....
<<snip>>
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 13:23:43 +1000
From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au
Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link.
My original message read:
<begin quote>
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:
>
>>Matter of fact, that why the *original* write-up for jump tanks had you
>>using the fuel from them and *then* jumping *after* blowing the tanks
>>free of the ship.
>
> I wasn't aware that there was dissenting write-up in canon that says that
> jump tanks are discarded AFTER jumping. Where is it?
<end quote>
To which Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) responded:
>Re-read the above. I'm saying you jump *after* you discard the tanks.
>
>And, I'm not aware of any canon references to the contrary, but I'm not
>real familar with stuff post MT.
No need to re-read, I'm not disagreeing with you Leonard. It's just that
with your stressing of the words "*original* write-up" I thought you
meant that you knew of a *subsequent* write-up for jump tanks that
disagreed.
Your response has made it clear that is not the case, but that you were
covering yourself due to your unfamiliarity with the rule systems
post MT.
I have been scouring the literature on jump drives as research for an
article I am preparing, and in ALL versions of Traveller up to and
including GURPS Traveller (and even T5 by some things Marc has said)
the tanks are discarded PRIOR to jump. I just thought for a horrible
moment that you had a reference to something I hadn't yet found out
about jump that said otherwise.
You see; I'm trying to correllate everything that has been published
about jump into a cohesive theory that will work in all versions of
Traveller and not contradict any canon. (Pigs might fly).
Seriously, it's almost finished, and should go out some time in the
new year. Hopefully it will resolve a lot of the disputes that take
place on the TML over drop tanks, jump tankers and the like.
Graeme
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 20:48:20 -0600
From: Charles R Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net>
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
Timothy Little wrote:
>On Wed, Dec 13, 2000 at 08:56:18PM -0800, Luther Martin wrote:
>> Timothy Little wrote:
>>
>> > > I like to believe that relativity holds in Traveller.
>> >
<snip>
>
>> I don't quite follow this. Even if you are going the speed of light,
say
>> just like light does, that doesn't change the distance between Regina
and
>> Capitol, does it?
>
>Sure it does. It's called Lorentz-Fitzgerald contraction. In your
>intertial reference frame, you are at rest and they are 6 parsecs
>apart and travelling at 99.9% of the speed of light. Relativity says
>that your inertial reference frame is as good as any other.
>
Question, what happens in this curcumstance:
Regina reference frame:
Regina speed=0
Capitol speed= very little
your ship and your friends ship speed=99.9% of light speed towards
Capitol from Regina
another ship speed=99.9% of light speed from Capitol towards Regina
Regina thinks that your ship and the other ship should see each
other before impact as neither ship is moving faster than light.
your reference frame:
You never see the ship that hit you as it was approching at 199.8%
the speed of light
WHAT does your friend see???
1.he sees the ship approching, but cannot do anything about it as
it is near light speed and severly blue shifted.
2. you explode and a ship leaving your position at 99.8% light
speed flying backwards.
3. It does not mater as the impact took out half of the subsector
4. or something else.
Charles H
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 21:05:07 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Relativity & FTL
> Just one for me. What frame of reference is that?
I'm not sure I understand your question. If you mean what frame are we
viewing this from, it's some frame that's in motion relative to both the
ship and the rest of the universe.
- -J. Jensen
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 21:12:30 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: More Task System Heresy
Your system's OK, bloo, but try this:
When you attempt a task, roll a number of dice equal to your skill level.
From this pool, take the two lowest and compare them with your stat. If the
dice are lower, you've succeeded.
If your skill level is 1, roll 1D+6. If it's 0, roll 1D3+9.
All applicable DMs (use your best judgement with T4 DMs; Die Modifiers
should be multiplied by -1) are applied directly to the stat.
Thanks for the inspiration, bloo.
- -J. Jensen
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 19:39:40 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Aw crap..... was:RE: Question
From: Jesse Degraff <jedegraf@cisco.com>
>!+)@*(%+(*&#$_)(&@_$#_%+_)(!*@#%+@#_+$^@#_+%^(!#_)_!^_*&~@+(+#(^)(*#*&!_#@(
*
>+)(!&#^_(*@$^&_!(@#*%+_!#_*@!$&*@&#_%(*$*)~@)$*+)(#&^_+^!(*#@+$(&^+_)(&!#+%
(
>*~@)*+~@*%#&!^+)(&@!$+^(&+!+!(&$#_+&@+$*~+@$*+~@_&$*&$)_!#%+~@(*)%+(!&#^+*&
%
>)(*^&_W)$&^+@$*(%+!)@#(+~)(@+$*!#^+(&@+$*~#(&^_(*$&@_(&^%+~@*($+~)(*@+%(&*+
_
>)$^+)(@!&#$^_*(&#^+)(!*#$~@($+~*(+$*~@+%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!
>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Been studing Zhodani again, Jesse?
Just one question, how does one say "("? Is it close to "[" or "{"?
I bid you peace.
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"
"I don't need Romance. I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
USS Excaliber.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 21:21:49 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: More Task System Heresy
> All applicable DMs (use your best judgement with T4 DMs; Die Modifiers
> should be multiplied by -1) are applied directly to the stat.
It just struck me that T4 Die Modifiers (not Difficulty Modifiers) could
just be applied to the dice themselves.
- -J. Jensen
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 22:36:24 -0500
From: Andrew Douglas <adouglas@optonline.net>
Subject: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology
1) There's a paradox raised by relativity that has bothered me for some
time. Perhaps one of you can help, or point me in the right direction.
You're an observer. You look out and see two ships, one heading
right-to-left ("west") at 0.75c. Another, at about the same distance and in
about the same direction from you, is headed left-to-right ("east"), also at
0.75c. The speeds are measured by you, an outside observer.
<---ship 1 ship 2--->
You.
That's fine. You see two ships, contracted in length a little and
red-shifted as they fly away from you. BUT.... What does a person on ship 1
see when they look at ship 2? The speed of ship 2 relative to ship 1 is
1.5c, right? Is that possible? Does this mean light from ship 2 will never
reach ship 1? Does it mean that ship 2 will simply disappear from view when
observed from ship 1? What will the observer on ship 1 measure the speed of
ship 2 to be?
The observer on ship 1 should see SOMETHING, if only ship 2 in the past
(consider ship 2 to have a strobe light on it... the strobe fires... light
from that travels to you, and to ship 1... but by the time it reaches both
you and ship 1, both ships have moved... you and the observer on ship 1 will
not agree on when the light fired). But that still doesn't answer the
question of what ship 2 looks like as it flies away from ship 1.
I guess what I'm failing to understand is the cosmic speed limit. If there
is no ether, and everything is relative, then what are we measuring the
speed of light relative TO? If those two ships pass one another, a person on
one ship (believing it to be stationary) will say "Crikey! A ship just blew
past us at 1.5c!"
2) Hubble determined that everything is flying away from everything else.
But we have photographs of galaxies colliding, which clearly means that
they're NOT flying apart. Therefore, it seems that the expansion phenomenon
is happening only at a very, very large scale. Where's the break point?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 19:37:12 -0800
From: "Jeffrey Yin" <jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu>
Subject: Re: Relativity & FTL
Yes, I meant what frame is the change observed from.
Jeff Yin
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 7:05 PM
Subject: Re: Relativity & FTL
> > Just one for me. What frame of reference is that?
>
> I'm not sure I understand your question. If you mean what frame are we
> viewing this from, it's some frame that's in motion relative to both the
> ship and the rest of the universe.
>
> -J. Jensen
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 21:49:24 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: The New Traveller Task System
OK, I put forth the initial stage of this system in reply to bloo's message,
but now I've figured it out. Behold:
After the player has declared a task attempt, the referee assigns a task
difficulty level. The difficulty level determines dice rules. See below:
Difficulty Dice
Simple 1D
Average/Routine 2D
Formidable 3D
Impossible 4D
Now, take the level of the involved skill and roll that many dice. If your
skill is equal to the difficulty's dice, that's great. If it's higher, apply
only the lowest dice. If it's lower, treat as if the other dice had come up
6.
If the skill level is zero (or default to us T4 fans), roll 1D3+3. This
counts as *one* of the dice. Treat the rest as if you had rolled 6s.
This makes Impossible tasks *really* impossible for skill levels of 0 and 1,
and you need a stat of 14-15 for a level 2.
Anyway, all comments are welcome, and yes, Jeff, you may put this on
Freelance Traveller.
And though it uses D3s, it never uses more them with regular D6s.
- -J. Jensen
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 21:58:04 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: The New Traveller Task System
I forgot to say that the point is to roll lower than the stat.
>From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com
>To: traveller@lists.ient.com
>Subject: The New Traveller Task System
>Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 21:49:24 -0600
>
>OK, I put forth the initial stage of this system in reply to bloo's
>message,
>but now I've figured it out. Behold:
>
>After the player has declared a task attempt, the referee assigns a task
>difficulty level. The difficulty level determines dice rules. See below:
>
>Difficulty Dice
>
>Simple 1D
>Average/Routine 2D
>Formidable 3D
>Impossible 4D
>
>Now, take the level of the involved skill and roll that many dice. If your
>skill is equal to the difficulty's dice, that's great. If it's higher,
>apply
>only the lowest dice. If it's lower, treat as if the other dice had come up
>6.
>
>If the skill level is zero (or default to us T4 fans), roll 1D3+3. This
>counts as *one* of the dice. Treat the rest as if you had rolled 6s.
>
>This makes Impossible tasks *really* impossible for skill levels of 0 and
>1,
>and you need a stat of 14-15 for a level 2.
>
>Anyway, all comments are welcome, and yes, Jeff, you may put this on
>Freelance Traveller.
>
>And though it uses D3s, it never uses more them with regular D6s.
>
>-J. Jensen
>_____________________________________________________________________________________
>Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
>http://explorer.msn.com
>
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 15:10:36 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> Where do you get a -2.4 weeks for the duration?
Lorentz transformation:
t' = (t + x v / c^2) / sqrt( 1 - v^2/c^2 )
Plug in t = 1 week, x = 170 light-weeks, v = -0.02 c (x and v are
opposite in direction). You get t' = -2.4 weeks.
> It's easy to deal with time travel. It's causality that gets tricky.
Time travel is essentially backward causality, and vice versa. Unless
you have a 'parallel worlds' universe.
> The way I'd play it is that the players *can* go back, but they
> can't change *anything* that their pre-trip-to-the-past selves saw
> or were affected by.
That's pretty much how I would have played it too. Except -- the PCs
too are physical systems subject to wave-function interference from
closed timelike curves. And they're rather fragile compared with
unusual vacuum states. Don't Try This At Home.
That's what I was alluding to by "very carefully controlled
conditions" for the time travel in my GURPS game. Without those
careful controls, Bad Things happen. Any possibility for time travel
must very carefully cancel out CTC feedback. Basically if anything
can go wrong (in the quantum mechanical wavefunction sense), it will.
The idea is to make sure the primary states are useful ones.
Any CTC broad enough to admit something as complex in state structure
as a person will almost certainly admit positive feedback. Strangely
enough, whenever such a loop is attempted something accidentally
causes the experiment to fail. There are several theories why -- some
very scary, others fairly neutral, none really testable.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 22:12:56 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology
>see when they look at ship 2? The speed of ship 2 relative to ship 1 is
>1.5c, right? Is that possible?
No and no. When you're using near-c objects, you have to use relativistic
addition of velocities.
- -J. Jensen
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 22:15:51 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: The New Traveller Task System
On reflection, this isn't such a good system after all due to the fact that
it completely flounders with 0-level skills.
Oh well.
- -J. Jensen
>From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com
>To: traveller@lists.ient.com
>Subject: Re: The New Traveller Task System
>Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 21:58:04 -0600
>
>I forgot to say that the point is to roll lower than the stat.
>
>
>>From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
>>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com
>>To: traveller@lists.ient.com
>>Subject: The New Traveller Task System
>>Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 21:49:24 -0600
>>
>>OK, I put forth the initial stage of this system in reply to bloo's
>>message,
>>but now I've figured it out. Behold:
>>
>>After the player has declared a task attempt, the referee assigns a task
>>difficulty level. The difficulty level determines dice rules. See below:
>>
>>Difficulty Dice
>>
>>Simple 1D
>>Average/Routine 2D
>>Formidable 3D
>>Impossible 4D
>>
>>Now, take the level of the involved skill and roll that many dice. If your
>>skill is equal to the difficulty's dice, that's great. If it's higher,
>>apply
>>only the lowest dice. If it's lower, treat as if the other dice had come
>>up
>>6.
>>
>>If the skill level is zero (or default to us T4 fans), roll 1D3+3. This
>>counts as *one* of the dice. Treat the rest as if you had rolled 6s.
>>
>>This makes Impossible tasks *really* impossible for skill levels of 0 and
>>1,
>>and you need a stat of 14-15 for a level 2.
>>
>>Anyway, all comments are welcome, and yes, Jeff, you may put this on
>>Freelance Traveller.
>>
>>And though it uses D3s, it never uses more them with regular D6s.
>>
>>-J. Jensen
>>_____________________________________________________________________________________
>>Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
>>http://explorer.msn.com
>>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 15:37:51 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
Charles R Hensley wrote:
> your reference frame:
> You never see the ship that hit you as it was approching at 199.8%
> the speed of light
Wrong formula. In relativity, speeds do not add linearly. You see
the ship approaching at 99.999995% of the speed of light. Ouch,
that's some blueshift.
> WHAT does your friend see???
> 1.he sees the ship approching, but cannot do anything about it as
> it is near light speed and severly blue shifted.
Yep, this one.
> 3. It does not mater as the impact took out half of the subsector
Probably not this one, but the impact energy in your frame would be
*far* higher than hitting a stationary ship at 99.9%c. Not merely
double.
On the other hand, they don't have much time to interact. It might be
fast enough that they pass straight through each other. Killing
everyone and destroying the ships of course, but probably hardly
slowing down.
Does anyone happen to have interaction figures handy for relativistic
nuclei? I can't seem to find anything over a couple of hundred GeV.
I see that the LHC is easily capable of testing this energy range (a
few TeV), but can't seem to find useful numbers from it at the moment.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 18:06:07 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: More Task System Heresy
Anthony Jackson wrote :
> Steve (Bloo) Daniels writes:
> > What if . .
> >
> > Skill levels were Dice?
>
> Skill levels become more important than stats (probably good)
> Luck is more important at high skill than at low (which is probably bad).
This depends on how you _use_ the dice.
If you add the totals, then luck becomes more important with lower skill, as
even a poor to average roll will suceeed for a high skill.
If you lot are not careful, I'll post the game mechanic we used in our house
rules for every game we played, which was called '3D6 open-ended'. We found
it gave the better results than any system (though you don't have to use D6
you could use D10), an almost perfect bell curve with no 'ends' to the
distribution like standard 3D6.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 18:13:26 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: More Task System Heresy
> Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm wrote :
>
> When a die is rolled and it comes up as a 6, replace it with two dice.
> Repeat until sick. (stolen from Eon, a Swedish RPG).
And they stole it with minor modification from us <grin>
OK, I'll have to post it now, Our version, known as 3D6 open-ended (TM) is
as follows :
1. Roll two normal D6 and one Fate die
2. Add the spots on the two normal die
3. If the Fate die shows a red six,
subtract six from previous total
otherwise
add the result to the previous total.
4. If the Fate die shows a red six or a black six,
roll another Fate die and goto step 3
It's a lot easier to actually do than it is to describe, and it gives an
almost perfect bell curve distribution, unlike normal 3D6.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 23:04:50 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: More Task System Heresy
>If you lot are not careful, I'll post the game mechanic we used in our
>house
>rules for every game we played, which was called '3D6 open-ended'. We found
>it gave the better results than any system (though you don't have to use D6
>you could use D10), an almost perfect bell curve with no 'ends' to the
>distribution like standard 3D6.
>
I'd love to see it. Could you post it?
- -J. Jensen
========================================
http://members.nbci.com/cheebzero/
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 20:58:34 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: Aw crap..... was:RE: Question
Actually, it's prounounced "zxvqchcwlallsje" with a double glottal stop :)
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Legate Legion
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 6:40 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: Aw crap..... was:RE: Question
>
>
> From: Jesse Degraff <jedegraf@cisco.com>
>
> >!+)@*(%+(*&#$_)(&@_$#_%+_)(!*@#%+@#_+$^@#_+%^(!#_)_!^_*&~@+(+#(^)
> (*#*&!_#@(
> *
> >+)(!&#^_(*@$^&_!(@#*%+_!#_*@!$&*@&#_%(*$*)~@)$*+)(#&^_+^!(*#@+$(&
> ^+_)(&!#+%
> (
> >*~@)*+~@*%#&!^+)(&@!$+^(&+!+!(&$#_+&@+$*~+@$*+~@_&$*&$)_!#%+~@(*)
> %+(!&#^+*&
> %
> >)(*^&_W)$&^+@$*(%+!)@#(+~)(@+$*!#^+(&@+$*~#(&^_(*$&@_(&^%+~@*($+~
> )(*@+%(&*+
> _
> >)$^+)(@!&#$^_*(&#^+)(!*#$~@($+~*(+$*~@+%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> !!!!!!!!!!
> !
> >!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
> Been studing Zhodani again, Jesse?
> Just one question, how does one say "("? Is it close to "[" or "{"?
>
> I bid you peace.
>
> Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
> ICQ # 8973001
> legate@futureone.com
>
> "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
> places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
> passes. Entil'zha Veni!"
>
> "I don't need Romance. I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
> USS Excaliber.
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 23:34:49 -0600
From: Bill Hopper <whopper@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting
This was also done by Orson Scott Card his short story "A Thousand Deaths", included in
the most excellent compilation _Capitol_.. Technologies involved were cloning and 'brain
taping', where thoughts were captured to tape up to the moment of death and could be
'restored' to the brain of a clone. In the story, a political prisoner was expected to
recant his beliefs, and when he his captors found his confession and apology
unconvincing, was executed in myriad ways. At one point, he asks to be allowed to die
for real and is told by a shocked prosecutor"That would be capital punishment. We're a
humane government. We never kill anybody permanently."
ObTrav: What punishments and/or forms of rehabilitation are used in YTU? IMTU, on some
hi-tech, hi-law worlds, 'personality adjustment' is the norm for violent crimes.
Paul Drye wrote:
> >>Now here's a dark thought - The death penalty in a fantsy world
> >>(for someone really bad):
> >>
> >>1. Execute the prisoner
> >>2. Resurrect the prisoner
> >>3. Execute the prisoner a second time
>
> (snip etceteras)
>
> Been done, and not in a fantasy world: "The Eichmann Variations", George
> Zebrowski. Science fiction story where Israel is a world power. When they
> capture Adolf Eichmann they, through the wonders of cloning, execute him six
> million times. A dark, disturbing, and IMO tasteless piece of work, but it
> was nominated for a Nebula in 1984.
>
> Cheers,
> Paul Drye
>
> _____________________________________________________________________________________
> Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3394
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3395
Date: | 12/15/00 6:32:24 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Friday, December 15 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3395
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Aw crap..... was:RE: Question
RE: Aw crap..... was:RE: Question
Re: TEDs
Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
Official: January 2001 San Jose Traveller Meet
Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
RE: Aw crap..... was:RE: Question
RE: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (Was (long). Now shorter)
Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic
Re: Aw crap..... was:RE: Question
Re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology
Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic
RE: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology
Re: FTL Physics Question
Re : "Dense, High" Atmospheres
Re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology
Re:Question
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 22:41:51 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Aw crap..... was:RE: Question
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net>
>Actually, it's prounounced "zxvqchcwlallsje" with a double glottal stop :)
>
>Jesse
Jesse (oh well armed one);
OK, is that a double glottal stop, or a Penguin Boy?
I bid you peace.
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"
"I don't need Romance. I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
USS Excaliber.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 22:00:23 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: Aw crap..... was:RE: Question
I believe it's interchangeable ;)
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Legate Legion
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 9:42 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: Aw crap..... was:RE: Question
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net>
>
>
> >Actually, it's prounounced "zxvqchcwlallsje" with a double
> glottal stop :)
> >
> >Jesse
>
>
> Jesse (oh well armed one);
>
> OK, is that a double glottal stop, or a Penguin Boy?
>
> I bid you peace.
>
> Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
> ICQ # 8973001
> legate@futureone.com
>
> "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
> places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
> passes. Entil'zha Veni!"
>
> "I don't need Romance. I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
> USS Excaliber.
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 00:23:33 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: TEDs
On 12/13/00 at 01:33 PM, Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com> said:
>One thing that bothers me about the TNE background -
>technologically-elevated dictators (TEDs) are portrayed as
>futuristic equivalents of banana republic dictators. Their
>military forces are mostly for show, and couldn't stand up to the
>righteous assault of the Star Vikings.
<snip>
>So, what if the vaunted Star Vikings launched an orbital assault
>against a TED and found themselves up against the equivalent of the
>Argentinian air force, who, despite losses, attempt to eradicate
>the planethead the Vikings have established? What if the
>equivalent of a Waffen SS Panzer division attempted to overrun the
>lodgement?
They'd get their head headed to them. <g>
>Why can't TEDs be competent?
Because if they are competent, the RCES doesn't call them TEDs? No,
I think the more competent the more likely it is the RCES *would*
call them TEDs and try to bring them down. These thugs don't want
any competition out there.
Oh, sure, there will be systems with the classic "technologically
elevated dictator" really is lording over the locals, but frankly I
think that will be rare. No, actually, I've always considered the
term TED to be a conceit of the RCES to give them a sense of moral
superiority and to allow them to justify their reaving and piracy to
themselves and others.
I don't have a lot of respect for the RC, their bully boys, *or*
their Hiver masters.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 08:33:29 +0200 (EET)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> At 11:21 AM 12/14/2000 +0200, you wrote:
> >The Finnish law states (freely translated) that a name must not be
> >offensive, to other persons, or to the name carrier, and it usually must
> >be the Finnish version.
> This is where my comprehension breaks down. In my family, every male is
> named Douglas. Either as the first or middle name. So if I moved to
> Finland and somebody found the name Douglas offensive, I couldn't give it
> to my son? Or if there is Finnish version, I would have to use that?
Actually, no. The offensivity is measured by "regular usage", and people
with foreign connections can still be named (almost) whatever they want.
Usually regular nouns can't be used as a first name. Some of them
(like Susi, "Wolf") can't because they are already in use as surnames.
And, my third name (Iisakki) comes from my great-grandfather.
Foreign connections means a foreign parent or other relative or such.
I have friends with foreign names, but they are half or wholly foreign.
Also, there is a rule that there can't be excatly the same name in the
immediate family - this is to prevent those pesky John Smith Seniors and
Juniors.
The principal idea is (in my opinion) that we think (collectively, without
actually thinking) that name is a means used to differentiate and identify
people, and this would be harder if anybody could change their name at
will.
There are also other regulations concerning given names. Everybody must
have at least one and at most three given names.
The practice is usually that it is hardest to get a weird name as a first
of these names, but second and third names can be something weirder.
I have plans with my girlfriend to give our daughter (when, and if she is
born) Delenn as second name. Let's see what problems we will have...
(There are some Ridges and Brookes in Finland, in regular Finnish
families... Can't imagine the stress these children go through in school.)
And, this actually concerns given names. Surnames are a different
matter... B-)
(I could probably dig up some law books and quote them, if anybody is
interested. I for one am, I have never thought very deeply about the
naming laws and why they exist. Thank you, Douglas, for giving me
something new to think about.)
> >There are some laws which prevent people from changing their names many
> >times. This might be considered as breach of privacy and freedom, but it
> >is much easier to keep track of people that way. And, as our State is not
> >very corrupt and almost everybody does get something from it, almost the
> >only people who change their names to something completely different from
> >their given ones are criminals. This is something of an exaggaration, but
> >not very far from the truth.
> Let's say that my situation growing up was far, far worse than it was, and
> I wanted to leave behind everything that was associated with being Douglas
> Berry. I might also want to insure that my family couldn't easily track me
> down. I might change my name to David Barris. I know somebody in this
> situation.
Well, this is possible, of course. Just that you need a reason for it.
Perhaps we have less people with these problems, I don't know.
> >(I wonder why anybody would like to change their name to "Penguin Boy" and
> >what joy would they get from it. Even while I am a Linux enthusiast. Sorry
> >if I am very narrowsighted, but laws restricting for example the flow of
> >information are much more confining and dangerous than naming laws.
> >After all, in regular life one can use nicknames and such.)
> You don't know the Joys of Penguinhood?! Anyway, we might ask Jello Biafra
> about why you change your name to something odd. There was a candidiate
> for Congress who changed his name to Micheal Tax-cut Ross. He still lost.
Would your friends call you Penguin or Douglas after the change?
> >I don't know the reasons for USA's recent scandal, but I could think that
> >mostly it derives from the country being so large. (Counting machines
> >seem a must there, while in Finland it is a hand count always).
> Wasn't really a scandel, as a circus. In brief, there were numerous
> problems with counting the vote in Florida. Since the fate of the election
> lay with Florida's 25 electoral college votes, it became quite an issue,
> one that hasn't been completely resolved yet.
After the court decision, it seems to be.
Still, in my opinion it is strange that the candidate who got the most
absolute votes lost. This can of course be attributed to the electorial
college system.
Of course, when it is time for parliamentary elections there is always
talk of the voting system here and how it is bad for small parties.
> >We are so small a country (about five million people) that a hand count is
> >possible. There are also no very big political differences between
> >different parties, so we probably won't have to go to courtrooms to decide
> >elections.)
> Well, yes. About five million folks live in the San Francisco Bay Area alone!
Sometimes I wonder if I should have started studying political history and
science instead of space engineering. This gets interesting...
- --
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 23:12:58 -0800
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
Subject: Official: January 2001 San Jose Traveller Meet
11:00, Saturday, January 20, 2001
Kristian Miller's place.
Primary Game: Invasion: Earth
Other Games: Glenn's RSSP Traveller RPG.
Other Activities: The BBQ, movies...
Mark your calendars. For directions, email travellerne@3rd-imperium.com
Kristian
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 23:27:18 -0800
From: Gordon Horne <gordon.horne@home.com>
Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
> Some of them
>(like Susi, "Wolf") can't because they are already in use as surnames.
>
My first name is a surname. This is quite common among people of
Scots ancestry. Presumably other groups have the same tradition. BTW
it means round hill. My middle name means bright warrior.
TTFN
g
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 15:31:26 -0000
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
Subject: RE: Aw crap..... was:RE: Question
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Legate Legion
Sent: Friday, 15 December 2000 2:40 AM
To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: Re: Aw crap..... was:RE: Question
From: Jesse Degraff <jedegraf@cisco.com>
>!+)@*(%+(*&#$_)(&@_$#_%+_)(!*@#%+@#_+$^@#_+%^(!#_)_!^_*&~@+(+#(^)(*#*&!_#@(
*
>+)(!&#^_(*@$^&_!(@#*%+_!#_*@!$&*@&#_%(*$*)~@)$*+)(#&^_+^!(*#@+$(&^+_)(&!#+%
(
>*~@)*+~@*%#&!^+)(&@!$+^(&+!+!(&$#_+&@+$*~+@$*+~@_&$*&$)_!#%+~@(*)%+(!&#^+*&
%
>)(*^&_W)$&^+@$*(%+!)@#(+~)(@+$*!#^+(&@+$*~#(&^_(*$&@_(&^%+~@*($+~)(*@+%(&*+
_
>)$^+)(@!&#$^_*(&#^+)(!*#$~@($+~*(+$*~@+%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!
>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Looks like a virus outbreak to me!
Antony
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 02:01:18 -0500
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com>
Subject: RE: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT task)
> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 12:51:19 -0000
> From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
> Subject: RE: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on
CT task)
>
> Paul Harris wrote:
> > Won't the third task war be so destructive that nothing will survive?
> > Won't it bring on the dreaded 'RPG WInter'?
>
> No, we'll end up with GAMA world ... where each game with have a
> variable number of mutations (aka House Rules).
Would you be so kind as to deliver the eulogy at my keyboards funeral?
David Shayne
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 02:56:48 -0500
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (Was (long). Now shorter)
> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 14:24:41 PST
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
<snip>
> BTW, even if you *do* use "simple" gas pressure, the only gas you can
> use is helium. And that's not cheap. And won't be even in the future.
Not even a future where anything with H in it can be tossed into a fusion
reactor and the output is lots of energy and He? (It's implied in FFS the
1st)
David Shayne
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 21:09:31 +1100
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au>
Subject: Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic
> From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
> Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3391
> What ethnicity is the US anyway? My father used to say you could pick any
> ethic group you cared to and there were at least 250,000 of them in
Chicago .
> . . and they all voted Democratic. I swear the place has street signs in
> Samoan in some neighborhoods.
One of my better inner Sydney Australian Labour Party war stories (well,
apart from the then-ALP councillor who ordered a hit on another one from a
municipal park ... then there was the whole Nugan Hand thing, where a bank
got set up by an ex-CIA gun runner and a smack dealer ... but they are other
stories) was the time the Queen of Tonga visited Sydney. Well, for some
reason the Department of Foriegn Affairs didnt provide her with a car and
driver, so South Sydney and Marrickville Councils did it all off their own
bat ...
ObTrav : For some reason, diplomatic protocol wasnt observed, so Our Heroes
get to provide security for a visiting dignitary (especially good if a
kidnap attempt or similar happens ... or for less trigger-happy types,
remember that access = power, and for the unscrupulous power = money). Heck,
lets go the who hog, and have em arrange the Diplomatic Reception as well.
Ian Whitchurch
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 03:27:27 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Aw crap..... was:RE: Question
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net>
>I believe it's interchangeable ;)
>Jesse
So I can use either the double glottal stop or "Penguin Boy"? Good,
thank you, but now can I use "Doug Berry" as well?
Btw, once I get a chance to transcribe Penguin Boy to my computer I will
post him here. *weg* It seems he has become somewhat of a Foxbat-type
superhero.
I bid you peace.
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"
"I don't need Romance. I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
USS Excaliber.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 03:22:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology
IIRC, C cannot be exceeded in any frame of reference. So, instead of
1.5C, I would think that the space ship observers would see the other
guy moving at a high fraction of C.
- --- Andrew Douglas <adouglas@optonline.net> wrote:
> 1) There's a paradox raised by relativity that has bothered me for
> some
> time. Perhaps one of you can help, or point me in the right
> direction.
>
> You're an observer. You look out and see two ships, one heading
> right-to-left ("west") at 0.75c. Another, at about the same distance
> and in
> about the same direction from you, is headed left-to-right ("east"),
> also at
> 0.75c. The speeds are measured by you, an outside observer.
>
> <---ship 1 ship 2--->
>
>
>
> You.
>
>
> That's fine. You see two ships, contracted in length a little and
> red-shifted as they fly away from you. BUT.... What does a person on
> ship 1
> see when they look at ship 2? The speed of ship 2 relative to ship 1
> is
> 1.5c, right? Is that possible? Does this mean light from ship 2 will
> never
> reach ship 1? Does it mean that ship 2 will simply disappear from
> view when
> observed from ship 1? What will the observer on ship 1 measure the
> speed of
> ship 2 to be?
>
> The observer on ship 1 should see SOMETHING, if only ship 2 in the
> past
> (consider ship 2 to have a strobe light on it... the strobe fires...
> light
> from that travels to you, and to ship 1... but by the time it reaches
> both
> you and ship 1, both ships have moved... you and the observer on ship
> 1 will
> not agree on when the light fired). But that still doesn't answer the
> question of what ship 2 looks like as it flies away from ship 1.
>
> I guess what I'm failing to understand is the cosmic speed limit. If
> there
> is no ether, and everything is relative, then what are we measuring
> the
> speed of light relative TO? If those two ships pass one another, a
> person on
> one ship (believing it to be stationary) will say "Crikey! A ship
> just blew
> past us at 1.5c!"
>
>
> 2) Hubble determined that everything is flying away from everything
> else.
> But we have photographs of galaxies colliding, which clearly means
> that
> they're NOT flying apart. Therefore, it seems that the expansion
> phenomenon
> is happening only at a very, very large scale. Where's the break
> point?
>
=====
Gerry Harris
**********************************************************************************************
Æther Traveller — http://www.aethertraveller.com
Soldier's Companion — http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html
**********************************************************************************************
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war" — Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1
**********************************************************************************************
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 06:42:53 -0500
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic
Ian Whitchurch wrote:
>ObTrav : For some reason, diplomatic protocol wasnt observed, so Our Heroes
>get to provide security for a visiting dignitary (especially good if a
>kidnap attempt or similar happens ... or for less trigger-happy types,
>remember that access = power, and for the unscrupulous power = money). Heck,
>lets go the who hog, and have em arrange the Diplomatic Reception as well.
Clearly the right moment for all those ex-military types to divulge
their years spent with SBS -- His Grace the Duke of Regina's Own Lift
Caterers (Special Bartending Services).
Kenji
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 11:45:37 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology
Yes. Interestingly, light sent from a moving point travels at C no matter
the direction or speed of its origin, so a ship travelling at .99C firing a
laser forwards would not have an FTL laser. Since the 2 ship issue involves
time dilation on both parts, I believe that both ships would see the other
moving slower than .75C, not faster. Counter intuitive, I know. Relativity
is weird.
Dean
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gerry Harris [mailto:harrisgwjr@yahoo.com]
> Sent: 15 December 2000 11:22
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology
>
>
> IIRC, C cannot be exceeded in any frame of reference. So, instead of
> 1.5C, I would think that the space ship observers would see the other
> guy moving at a high fraction of C.
>
> --- Andrew Douglas <adouglas@optonline.net> wrote:
> > 1) There's a paradox raised by relativity that has bothered me for
> > some
> > time. Perhaps one of you can help, or point me in the right
> > direction.
> >
> > You're an observer. You look out and see two ships, one heading
> > right-to-left ("west") at 0.75c. Another, at about the same distance
> > and in
> > about the same direction from you, is headed left-to-right ("east"),
> > also at
> > 0.75c. The speeds are measured by you, an outside observer.
> >
> > <---ship 1 ship 2--->
> >
> >
> >
> > You.
> >
> >
> > That's fine. You see two ships, contracted in length a little and
> > red-shifted as they fly away from you. BUT.... What does a person on
> > ship 1
> > see when they look at ship 2? The speed of ship 2 relative to ship 1
> > is
> > 1.5c, right? Is that possible? Does this mean light from ship 2 will
> > never
> > reach ship 1? Does it mean that ship 2 will simply disappear from
> > view when
> > observed from ship 1? What will the observer on ship 1 measure the
> > speed of
> > ship 2 to be?
> >
> > The observer on ship 1 should see SOMETHING, if only ship 2 in the
> > past
> > (consider ship 2 to have a strobe light on it... the strobe fires...
> > light
> > from that travels to you, and to ship 1... but by the time
> it reaches
> > both
> > you and ship 1, both ships have moved... you and the
> observer on ship
> > 1 will
> > not agree on when the light fired). But that still doesn't
> answer the
> > question of what ship 2 looks like as it flies away from ship 1.
> >
> > I guess what I'm failing to understand is the cosmic speed limit. If
> > there
> > is no ether, and everything is relative, then what are we measuring
> > the
> > speed of light relative TO? If those two ships pass one another, a
> > person on
> > one ship (believing it to be stationary) will say "Crikey! A ship
> > just blew
> > past us at 1.5c!"
> >
> >
> > 2) Hubble determined that everything is flying away from everything
> > else.
> > But we have photographs of galaxies colliding, which clearly means
> > that
> > they're NOT flying apart. Therefore, it seems that the expansion
> > phenomenon
> > is happening only at a very, very large scale. Where's the break
> > point?
> >
>
>
> =====
> Gerry Harris
> **************************************************************
> ********************************
> Æther Traveller - http://www.aethertraveller.com
> Soldier's Companion -
> http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/socc
omp1.html
****************************************************************************
******************
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war" - Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act
3, Scene 1
****************************************************************************
******************
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 08:42:45 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
At 07:07 pm 12/14/00 -0500, you wrote:
>> Thruster-Plates *aren't* reactionless. They don't use reaction
mass, but
>> they don't violate Newton's principles of action and reaction.
They grab
>> onto the gravity well of celestial objects (ie stars) and ride it
like a
>> wave. I think. Others (such as Dave Golden, if he's still here)
can explain
>> it better.
Whoops! Somebody spoke my name ...
Anyway, I can't explain thruster plates--hate to disappoint anybody
who thinks I've got a working thruster plate design secreted in my
Honda, but the answer I'll have to give here is: thruster plates are
magic reactionless drives. They're in FF&S 2 because (a) many people
prefer the 'classic' traveller idea of not worrying about reaction
fuel, and (b) that's the 'technology' Marc wanted for T4. Me
personally, I preferred TNE's reaction drives and the flavor it
added.
Disappearing now back whence I came, until the next time someone
invokes my name three times ...
- -- Windows 9x (noun): 32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a
16 bit patch to an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4
bit microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company that can't stand 1 bit
of competition
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 00:59:53 +1100
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re : "Dense, High" Atmospheres
Leonard Erickson wrote :-
> I thought flammability varied with *percentage* of O2, not partial
> pressure?
No ; all the standard MSDS data refers to *percentages at 1 ATA
pressure*.
I notice that O2 concentrations of 25% or better are the permitted upper
limit on a lot of MSDS's.
Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 09:06:14 -0500
From: Andrew Douglas <adouglas@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology
on 12/15/00 12:41 AM, Traveller-digest at
owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com wrote:
> No and no. When you're using near-c objects, you have to use relativistic
> addition of velocities.
>
> - -J. Jensen
If possible in limited space (har har), could you give me an explanation of
"relativistic addition of velocities?"
I realize I'm getting stuck in Newtonian physics here... it's darned
difficult to get away from the idea of space and time not being absolute.
- --
Andrew Douglas
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 09:30:12 -0500 (EST)
From: "William 'Commander X' Prankard" <cmdrx@ao.net>
Subject: Re:Question
>Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 14:17:16 -0600
>From: Loren Wiseman <lkw@io.com>
>Subject: Question
>Gentlebeings:
>What links should I put on the GURPS Traveller page that aren't there
now?
Please remove the link to "Planet X" as that has been down for some time
(Since July).
Change it to "X-TEK of Deneb, LIC"
The URL should be http://www.ao.net/~cmdrx/xtek/
Thanks.
\\ // Commander X
\\ // CEO X-TEK Industries of Deneb, LIC
T E K Starship Contractor & High Energy Weapons Research
// \\ http://www.ao.net/~cmdrx/xtek
// \\ 0608 D557777-A kk- va+ so+ zh+ da+ A723
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3395
***********************************
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3396
Date: | 12/15/00 9:15:33 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Friday, December 15 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3396
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
RE: Aw crap..... was:RE: Question
Re: Dangerous Kobolds was: Re: TEDs
Re: Dangerous Kobolds was: Re: TEDs
Re: BITS adventures...
Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting
RE: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3391
Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic
Re: Question
Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic
Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic
Re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology
Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
RE: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3391
Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic
RE: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democra tic
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3391
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3391
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3391
Technology Marches On: RealLife (tm) Holotanks
Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (Was (long). Now shorter)
Re: More Task System Heresy
Technology Marches On: TL13 Arrives
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 22:36:35 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: RE: Aw crap..... was:RE: Question
> From: Jesse DeGraff
> Actually, it's prounounced "zxvqchcwlallsje" with a double glottal stop
> :)
A well known town on Cronor.
From Legate Legion
> > Been studing Zhodani again, Jesse?
> > Just one question, how does one say "("? Is it close to "[" or
> > "{"?
That's a kill. Or at least, that's a sophisticated intellectual
appreciation. I would never do anything so vulgar as to spew coffee
through my nose.
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 23:07:13 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Dangerous Kobolds was: Re: TEDs
> From: John Groth
> OTOH, one can drive PCs truly crazy by giving them ignorant kobold
> prisoners to interrogate, if one assumes the following:
<snipped>
> Note that this lack of mathematical comprehension does not prevent the
> kobolds from implementing reasonable tactics....
<snipped>
Agreed.
All this talk of Kobolds and stuff is starting to tempt me to play D&D
again. I have an old concept in my games in which the resident Forces Of
Darkness created various kinds of monsters by corrupting existing species,
or by taking on physical forms themselves and breeding new and hideous
things. Yes, the idea is lifted from Tolkien - so what?
I have a suspicion that Kobolds may have just made it onto the list of
things they created... Of course, that means that there may be things
ancestral to Kobolds that are seriously dangerous.
Yes, Kobolds are back!
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 23:12:33 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Dangerous Kobolds was: Re: TEDs
> From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
> The real problem is when you meet FRENCH-SPEAKING reasonably organised
> Kobolds wearing Napoleonic-style uniforms.
>
> I have. I survived (just)... ran away and ended up being captured by
> goblins. Rest of the party perished. Oh well. Charmed the boss goblin and
> ended up his Most Valued Counsellor (his capitals). Now being continued
> by e-mail post convention.
>
> You don't want to know who the DM was.
Sigh. You shouldn't leave tease-lines like that lying around, Mexal. It's
not fair.
I mean really, we didn't want to know who the DM was - but now we do.
<pout> <sulk>
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 23:54:15 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: BITS adventures...
> From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
> I just cannot stop writing, sometimes I think if I stopped writing now it
> would take about 5 years to work through what's already there :-)
I rarely fully write stuff out, since it is usually only me that uses it,
but I know what you mean.
Current thought in progress:
The Barony of New Sarum on <world near Capital> is a basically lost and
forgotten noble title. Its associated fief is pretty much abandoned. The
heir is either a PC or a very closely allied or related NPC.
Recently, a new noble title has been created, with a fief that just
(coincidentally) happens to include New Sarum's lands...
The world is an oligarchy: the new noble title will help shift the balance
among the ruling factions, as would a revival of the New Sarum title.
The ruined New Sarum town is a pretty dull ruined fishing village. At
least part of it is now underwater, since the coastline has shifted over
the centuries. With a bit of work and cash, it might be possible to reopen
the old fish farms, and the tidal power station at the mouth of the river.
Opponents: the other noble and her/his supporters and allies. The sea
monsters (think Beowulf).
There are probably some legal battles going on in the background. These
can be used to rip off excess cash from the PCs.
Diplomacy, noble intrigues, bribery, exploration (in Core Sector!), monster
bashing, a small military conflict, and lots and lots of fish.
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 10:06:38 -0500
From: Jonathan McDermott <caraig@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting
>Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 00:07:31 -0000
>From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
>Subject: RE: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting
>
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:
> > Or the routine someone used in a campaign I was in:
> >
> > Torture the prisoner until he's almost dead. Apply cure wounds
> > until he's reasonably healthy. Repeat until he talks...
>
>Okay, if we're going down that path: Make the victim immortal and
>regenerating, then lock him forever in the deepest dungeon with a
>Lament Configuration puzzle box!
>
>Regards PLST
I thought it Lemarchand's Configuration? =)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 15:13:12 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting
>
> >Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 00:07:31 -0000
> >From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
> >Subject: RE: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting
> >
> >Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:
> > > Or the routine someone used in a campaign I was in:
> > >
> > > Torture the prisoner until he's almost dead. Apply cure wounds
> > > until he's reasonably healthy. Repeat until he talks...
> >
> >Okay, if we're going down that path: Make the victim immortal and
> >regenerating, then lock him forever in the deepest dungeon with a
> >Lament Configuration puzzle box!
> >
> >Regards PLST
>
> I thought it Lemarchand's Configuration? =)
>
It is (otherwise Hellraiser 4 makes no/less sense). Fatal flaw with the
plan...if the victim knows what that funny gold box is you have to rely on
his boredom for it to have any effect :). Frankly, if I was immortal and
regenerating I'd probably try to wait it out or try to escape.
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 07:09:57
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3391
At 07:31 PM 12/14/2000 EST, you wrote:
>What ethnicity is the US anyway? My father used to say you could pick any
>ethic group you cared to and there were at least 250,000 of them in
Chicago .
>. . and they all voted Democratic. I swear the place has street signs in
>Samoan in some neighborhoods.
Let's see... I live in San Francisco. Go to Chinatown, and the street
signs are in Chinese (as are the menus at McDonalds). Head across
Columbus, and Italian is still a very common language in North Beach. Go
into the Mission District, and you're likely to hear Vietnamese, Spanish,
and Tagalog. In my neighborhood, we have a large Russian population, so
stores with Cyrillic signs in the window are not uncommon. The guy who
owns the barbershop I go to is a veteran of the Red Army's push on Berlin,
and tells great stories in an odd mixture of English, Russian, and Uzbeck.
Our pizza delivery place is run by Russians, and the usual Chinese delivery
guy is Samoan. Kirsten's favorite sushi place is run by Japanese
immigrants. All this in just over 47 square miles.
What ethnicity is the US? Mongrel.
ObTrav: Startowns are likely to show similar hybrid insanity. Good local
color would be competing ethnic restaurants, shops run by off-worlders for
expatriates, and locals looking for bargains that they can't find at the
local version of WalMart.
- --
Douglas E. Berry Templar Agent at Large.
gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
TravGeekCode:
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 07:12:18
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic
At 06:42 AM 12/15/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>Clearly the right moment for all those ex-military types to divulge
>their years spent with SBS -- His Grace the Duke of Regina's Own Lift
>Caterers (Special Bartending Services).
I can't resist.. GF, page 59, you get the career template for playing an
Army cook.
- --
Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
Animals who are not penguins can only wish they were.
- -Chicago reader, 10/15/82
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 07:30:26 -0800
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: Question
on 12/14/00 4:30 PM, Jesse Degraff at jedegraf@cisco.com wrote:
> As for the video, not yet. I'm out of room on my hdd's at home (50+gigs!!!)
> so I'll have to do the videos as machine time permits on the capture station
> here at work. I DID however do screen-caps from the video already. They're
> just dumped in a folder on my site at the moment. No thumbs, no html, so go
> to:
> http://vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/shooting/dec00-shoot/
> I grabbed all the best frames :) You're in there firing that 20mm cannon
> Leonard!
>
Well, at least you have enough to tease Glenn with. Who knows when we'll see
both a Lahti and a Solothurn together again.
I was on Long Mountain Outfitters site, and see that the have a 37mm Pak
35/36 for sale, not to mention a US 90mm. Be the envy of the shoot.
So, are you saving up for that Barrett now? Better bring lots of .50BMG to
the next shoot. And Paul should have one of the Barretts silenced by then.
Tod
- --
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend"
- --
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.solsec.org
http://www.grandsurvey.com
http://travellerguns.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 10:34:41 -0500
From: Jonathan McDermott <caraig@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic
>Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 06:42:53 -0500
>From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu>
>Subject: Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic
>
>Ian Whitchurch wrote:
>
> >ObTrav : For some reason, diplomatic protocol wasnt observed, so Our Heroes
> >get to provide security for a visiting dignitary (especially good if a
> >kidnap attempt or similar happens ... or for less trigger-happy types,
> >remember that access = power, and for the unscrupulous power = money). Heck,
> >lets go the who hog, and have em arrange the Diplomatic Reception as well.
>
>Clearly the right moment for all those ex-military types to divulge
>their years spent with SBS -- His Grace the Duke of Regina's Own Lift
>Caterers (Special Bartending Services).
>
>Kenji
"You call that a margarita, soldier?! I have seen better drinks mixed by a
six-day-drunk Vargr corsair! Do NOT make me decide that you cannot tell
vermouth from gin, I will make you regret the day you cracked open your
first bottle of Gushemedge sambvka! You had best start mixing right or I
will mix you right out of this sophont's army!"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 11:02:30 -0500
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic
Jonathan McDermott wrote:
>>Clearly the right moment for all those ex-military types to divulge
>>their years spent with SBS -- His Grace the Duke of Regina's Own Lift
>>Caterers (Special Bartending Services).
>>
>>Kenji
>
>"You call that a margarita, soldier?! I have seen better drinks
>mixed by a six-day-drunk Vargr corsair! Do NOT make me decide that
>you cannot tell vermouth from gin, I will make you regret the day
>you cracked open your first bottle of Gushemedge sambvka! You had
>best start mixing right or I will mix you right out of this
>sophont's army!"
Oh, at the very least. Norris being Norris, I would expect that all
members of SBS can not only bench-press a full keg, but give great
lap dances, too.
Kenji
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 10:15:05 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology
> > No and no. When you're using near-c objects, you have to use
>relativistic
> > addition of velocities.
> >
> > - -J. Jensen
>
>If possible in limited space (har har), could you give me an explanation of
>"relativistic addition of velocities?"
I'm afraid that I can't help you here. I just remember reading about it from
an old book, but I can't remember the formula.
>I realize I'm getting stuck in Newtonian physics here... it's darned
>difficult to get away from the idea of space and time not being absolute.
Which brings me to my question: If one of relativities foundations is that
there are no absolutes, why does it assume that the speed of light through a
vacuum absolute?
- -J. Jensen
========================================
http://members.nbci.com/cheebzero/
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 11:18:13 -0500
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
Jens Rydholm wrote:
> > Safer for bystanders, and probably less morally questionable.
>
>And your PCs care about bystanders? Or morals? I call your bluff!
All right, you caught me -- in fact, yes, I'm not allowed to have
*any* PCs any more after that business with the country club and the
salad oil.
Seriously, though, would you rather be a citizen in a town that PCs
were trying to seize by casual brute force, or a town they were
trying to seize by "being clever and politically astute"?
Kenji
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 16:17:41 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kenji Schwarz [mailto:schwarz@fas.harvard.edu]
> Sent: 15 December 2000 16:18
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
>
>
> Jens Rydholm wrote:
>
> > > Safer for bystanders, and probably less morally questionable.
> >
> >And your PCs care about bystanders? Or morals? I call your bluff!
>
> All right, you caught me -- in fact, yes, I'm not allowed to have
> *any* PCs any more after that business with the country club and the
> salad oil.
>
> Seriously, though, would you rather be a citizen in a town that PCs
> were trying to seize by casual brute force, or a town they were
> trying to seize by "being clever and politically astute"?
>
Hah! Given the level of subtlety displayed by MY players, cleverness and
political astuteness. :)
DEan
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 11:23:48 -0500
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3391
Douglas Berry wrote:
>Let's see... I live in San Francisco. Go to Chinatown, and the street
>signs are in Chinese (as are the menus at McDonalds). Head across
>Columbus, and Italian is still a very common language in North Beach. Go
>into the Mission District, and you're likely to hear Vietnamese, Spanish,
>and Tagalog. In my neighborhood, we have a large Russian population, so
>stores with Cyrillic signs in the window are not uncommon. The guy who
>owns the barbershop I go to is a veteran of the Red Army's push on Berlin,
>and tells great stories in an odd mixture of English, Russian, and Uzbeck.
>
>Our pizza delivery place is run by Russians, and the usual Chinese delivery
>guy is Samoan. Kirsten's favorite sushi place is run by Japanese
>immigrants. All this in just over 47 square miles.
>
>What ethnicity is the US? Mongrel.
Well, to be fair, the mongrelization you describe here could about
equally well be applied to most other major cities around the world
today, I would think.
Or even less than major cities. With no offense to natives on the
list, it's a bad sign when you find Ulaan Baator more cosmopolitan
than Boston ;(
Kenji
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 11:24:57 -0500
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic
Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>I can't resist.. GF, page 59, you get the career template for playing an
>Army cook.
Dang it... you may trick me into buying _GF_, but you still can't
make me take GURPS or the No Dead Emperor timeline thing
seriously!!!!!!!
Kenji
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 16:28:23 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democra tic
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kenji Schwarz [mailto:schwarz@fas.harvard.edu]
> Sent: 15 December 2000 16:25
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote
> Democratic
>
>
> Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>
> >I can't resist.. GF, page 59, you get the career template
> for playing an
> >Army cook.
>
> Dang it... you may trick me into buying _GF_, but you still can't
> make me take GURPS or the No Dead Emperor timeline thing
> seriously!!!!!!!
>
Not enough conflicting canon for you, Kenji? :)
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 11:26:47 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3391
Loren wrote:
>What ethnicity is the US anyway?
If you go by "blood", the largest single grouping in the U.S. is believed
to be of German descent. If you go by culture, it's usually said that
American culture is descended from English culture. So, in theory, we're
Anglo-Germanic (or is that Germano-Anglic?). In practice things are a bit
more varied than that.
If you happen to uncover the "true" answer to this question, drop me a
line.
>My father used to say you could pick any
>ethic group you cared to and there were at least 250,000 of them in Chicago
.
>. . and they all voted Democratic. I swear the place has street signs in
>Samoan in some neighborhoods.
Well, if they didn't have street signs in Samoan, then the Samoans might
get angry, and nobody wants "Angry Samoans".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 16:31:04 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3391
>
> At 07:31 PM 12/14/2000 EST, you wrote:
>
> >What ethnicity is the US anyway? My father used to say you
> could pick any
> >ethic group you cared to and there were at least 250,000 of them in
> Chicago .
> >. . and they all voted Democratic. I swear the place has
> street signs in
> >Samoan in some neighborhoods.
>
> Let's see... I live in San Francisco. Go to Chinatown, and
> the street
> signs are in Chinese (as are the menus at McDonalds). Head across
> Columbus, and Italian is still a very common language in
> North Beach. Go
> into the Mission District, and you're likely to hear
> Vietnamese, Spanish,
> and Tagalog. In my neighborhood, we have a large Russian
> population, so
> stores with Cyrillic signs in the window are not uncommon.
> The guy who
> owns the barbershop I go to is a veteran of the Red Army's
> push on Berlin,
> and tells great stories in an odd mixture of English,
> Russian, and Uzbeck.
>
> Our pizza delivery place is run by Russians, and the usual
> Chinese delivery
> guy is Samoan. Kirsten's favorite sushi place is run by Japanese
> immigrants. All this in just over 47 square miles.
>
I've gotta say San Francisco for New Year 2000 was my favourite holiday. I
was somewhere near the intersection of Sutter/Larkin. Had a great 2 weeks
just wandering the city, looking at stuff.
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 16:35:22 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3391
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Seamans [mailto:semo@pil.net]
> Sent: 15 December 2000 16:27
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3391
>
>
> Loren wrote:
>
> >What ethnicity is the US anyway?
>
> If you go by "blood", the largest single grouping in
> the U.S. is believed
> to be of German descent. If you go by culture, it's usually said that
> American culture is descended from English culture. So, in
> theory, we're
> Anglo-Germanic (or is that Germano-Anglic?). In practice
> things are a bit
> more varied than that.
>
> If you happen to uncover the "true" answer to this
> question, drop me a
> line.
>
> >My father used to say you could pick any
> >ethic group you cared to and there were at least 250,000 of
> them in Chicago
> .
> >. . and they all voted Democratic. I swear the place has
> street signs in
> >Samoan in some neighborhoods.
>
> Well, if they didn't have street signs in Samoan, then
> the Samoans might
> get angry, and nobody wants "Angry Samoans".
>
Apart from Mike Saunders.
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 10:50:04 -0600
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <dasmart@avaya.com>
Subject: Technology Marches On: RealLife (tm) Holotanks
From New Scientist magazine, 16 December 2000.
- -- quote --
You Can touch It, Turn It, But It Isn't Really There
SURGEONS and designers could soon be manipulating 3D moving
images floating in mid-air rather than on computer screens,
say engineers at DERA, Britain's soon-to-be-privatised
defence research lab. They say designers will be able to
extend a car's bodywork just by waving a stylus, and almost
instantly see what it looks like--or surgeons could twist a
brain scan around to locate an injury.
"We can create a real image floating in 3D space," says
Chris Slinger, head of holography at the Defence Evaluation
and Research Agency in Malvern, Worcestershire...
- -- end quote --
The full story is at:
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns226914
ObTrav: Just like the holotank on the Donosev-class scout
cruiser.
David
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 09:04:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (Was (long). Now shorter)
DaveShayne writes:
> > BTW, even if you *do* use "simple" gas pressure, the only gas you can
> > use is helium. And that's not cheap. And won't be even in the future.
>
> Not even a future where anything with H in it can be tossed into a fusion
> reactor and the output is lots of energy and He? (It's implied in FFS the
> 1st)
Actually, that's not a good source particularly -- reactors may produce helium,
but they don't produce very much of it. However, any ship capable of skimming
a gas giant for hydrogen is capable of skimming a gas giant for helium -- it
will take longer, so helium will be considerably more expensive than refined
hydrogen, but it still won't be all that expensive.
Of course, I don't know why you want helium. If this is still about reactors,
helium is lousy reactor fuel.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 09:07:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: More Task System Heresy
Frank G. Pitt writes:
> > Skill levels become more important than stats (probably good)
> > Luck is more important at high skill than at low (which is probably bad).
>
> This depends on how you _use_ the dice.
> If you add the totals, then luck becomes more important with lower skill,
> as even a poor to average roll will suceeed for a high skill.
That's true.
>
> If you lot are not careful, I'll post the game mechanic we used in our
> house rules for every game we played, which was called '3D6 open-ended'.
> We found it gave the better results than any system (though you don't have
> to use D6 you could use D10), an almost perfect bell curve with no 'ends' to
> the distribution like standard 3D6.
Sounds like the shadowrun system, which has some good ideas but (IMO) results
in some really broken statistical effects.
For anyone familiar with Heavy Gear, it has an interesting 'dice=skill' convention which results in high skill being more reliable but high stats able to do more dramatic things.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 11:08:52 -0600
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <dasmart@avaya.com>
Subject: Technology Marches On: TL13 Arrives
Anyone remember the writeup in MT about how, at TL13
(or was it TL15), a computer-driven holo can imitate
a person in telecomm conversations?
Step one has been accomplished...
- -- quote --
15-Dec-2000 UniSci Daily News
Miles Apart, People Feel They're In The Same Room
By marrying telecommunications and technology similar
to that used in 3D movies, computer scientists have
orchestrated a session in which participants sitting
in different locations feel as if they're chatting in
the same room.
The first successful demonstration of this technique,
known as "tele-immersion," was accomplished by
researchers at the University of Pennsylvania, the
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, Brown
University and Advanced Network and Services, a
non-profit firm in Armonk, N.Y.
Kostas Daniilidis, Ph.D., Penn's group leader on the
National Tele-Immersion Initiative, said that unlike
conventional videoconferencing, tele-immersion all
but teleports faraway places into the here and now.
"While videoconferencing results in two-dimensional
images on a screen, in tele-immersion the screen
becomes a window allowing access to a site far away,"
said Daniilidis, an assistant professor of computer
and information science at Penn. "The person with
whom you're speaking is projected life-size in
three dimensions -- you can even peer behind him or
her."
- -- end quote --
The complete posting can be found at:
http://unisci.com/stories/20004/1215006.htm
BTW, if anyone is interested in where I find all this
stuff, it's at the website: www.artigen.com
This site provides links (only) to news on technology
and science breakthroughs across the world.
ObTrav: This is great detail for a GM to provide
players to help them realize they're not playing
20th (or 21st) century characters in the 50th
century.
(Wish I could live to be 100 just to see all the neat
stuff coming out)
David
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3396
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3397
Date: | 12/15/00 2:06:48 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Friday, December 15 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3397
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
RE: Technology Marches On: TL13 Arrives
Technology Marches On: Battledress?!?
Vilani Word list needed
Re: More Task System Heresy
Re: FTL Physics Question
TML Host IENT Restructures
Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic
Re: TEDs
Re: Atlas of the Imperium
Re: Vilani Word list needed
Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
ADMIN: Update (was Re: TML Host IENT Restructures)
Re: Vilani Word list needed
Re: ADMIN: Update (was Re: TML Host IENT Restructures)
Re: ADMIN: Update (was Re: TML Host IENT Restructures)
Re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology
Re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology
Re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology
Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (Was (long). Now shorter)
Re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology
Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
Re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 17:16:01 -0000
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Technology Marches On: TL13 Arrives
>
> The complete posting can be found at:
> http://unisci.com/stories/20004/1215006.htm
>
> BTW, if anyone is interested in where I find all this
> stuff, it's at the website: www.artigen.com
>
> This site provides links (only) to news on technology
> and science breakthroughs across the world.
>
> ObTrav: This is great detail for a GM to provide
> players to help them realize they're not playing
> 20th (or 21st) century characters in the 50th
> century.
>
> (Wish I could live to be 100 just to see all the neat
> stuff coming out)
>
> David
>
Fix yourself up with Cryostasis. It might not work, but you got a better
chance than you'd have if you didn't get yourself frozen.
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 11:25:37 -0600
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <dasmart@avaya.com>
Subject: Technology Marches On: Battledress?!?
From Beyond 2000's website:
- -- quote --
15.DEC.2000
SKELETON WARRIORS
The United States wants its own starship troopers. As
part of a project that's been quietly ticking away for
months now, the Department of Defense has decided it
needs to grant superhuman powers to its soldiers;
providing them with the ability run faster, carry more
gear and leap tall buildings. It plans to do this with
powered combat armour exoskeletons, and the first
contract in the project was awarded this week..
..SoloTrek will be a benchmark for exoskeleton proponents.
If it can indeed get off the ground, the idea of
non-flying power suits will appear well within grasp.
Certainly it would seem that existing levels of
bio-mechanics, force feedback and control processing
are sufficient to begin the march of the robo-warrior.
And the birth of the Mobile Infantry...
- -- end quote --
SoloTrek is actually a one-person, strap-on helicopter
rather than with RealLife(tm) battledress development.
The story, however, does reference DARPA which *is*
funding battledress development and lists DARPA's
requirements which read like something out of a
Travellers' Aid Society Journal article.
Scary. Very scary. (and *damn* cool!)
Check it out at:
http://www.beyond2000.com/news/Dec_00/story_926.html
ObTrav: Traveller exists in the 50th+ century? Try the
21st or 22nd.
Now if someone would just work on the Jump drive.
David
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 11:41:22 -0600
From: Loren Wiseman <lkw@io.com>
Subject: Vilani Word list needed
I need some kind soul to send me the URL for the Vilani dictionary that
Kenji at al. have been working on. Specifically, I need words for "island"
"islands" "continent" "archipelago" "peninsula" "ocean" and "sea"
Loren Wiseman
Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society http://jtas.sjgames.com/
SJ Games
lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
(512) 447-7866 VOX
(512) 447-1144 FAX
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 18:42:59 +0100
From: "Patrik Holmström" <glappkaeft@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: More Task System Heresy
Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm wrote
>When a die is rolled and it comes up as a 6, replace it with two dice.
>Repeat until sick. (stolen from Eon, a Swedish RPG).
>
>Works quite well. You'll need to change the target numbers a bit though.
>The average roll on on such die is (IIRC) 4.2 or something close to
>that. I could probably calculate it for you if it wasn't 2:30 AM here...
The average is 3.75.
x = (1+2+3+4+5+2x)/6
=> 2/3x = 15/6
=> x = 15/4 = 3.75
Patrik
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 18:54:53 +0100
From: "Patrik Holmström" <glappkaeft@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
Timothy Little wrote
>Does anyone happen to have interaction figures handy for relativistic
>nuclei? I can't seem to find anything over a couple of hundred GeV.
>I see that the LHC is easily capable of testing this energy range (a
>few TeV), but can't seem to find useful numbers from it at the moment.
I have an old cross post from that details what happends when a can of
ravioli hits a star destroyer at different speeds (from very low to
.999999999999c). It is very long (9kb) so I don't know if I should post
it.
Patrik Holmström
http://www.docs.uu.se/~paho9211/trav/
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 12:12:57 -0600
From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" <sdaniels@playnet.com>
Subject: TML Host IENT Restructures
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/001215/nc_ientert.html
[Yeah the formatting of this copy suck. Sorry. -bloo]
RESEARCH TRIANGLE PARK AREA, N.C.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Dec. 15,
2000--iEntertainment Network, Inc. (NASDAQ: IENT -
news), an online media company providing evergreen entertainment content
across a wide network of owned and affiliated Internet
properties, today announced steps to refocus its resources on its
established pay-for-play division.
``The iEN board of directors has mandated an objective to deliver an
operating profit in all four quarters during calendar 2001. Given the
track record of our pay-for-play group and the scheduled introduction of
exciting new releases in 2001, we have determined that the
path to sustained profitability will require keen focus in this area,''
said Mike Pearce, iEN CEO. ``iEN plans also to continue generating
significant revenue from advertising-supported gaming environments. We
intend to participate in the overall recovery of online
advertising markets, which many industry analysts foresee occurring in
the second half of 2001.''
As a result of the increased focus on profitability and pay-for-play
gaming revenue, the company eliminated 33 positions, many of
whom were assigned to supporting the effort in advertising-related game
environments. ``It's unfortunate that many good people are
being released and through no fault of their own,'' said Pearce.
``Internet companies, particularly content-oriented dot coms, are
experiencing a very challenging marketplace. While not unexpected in a
maturing industry, it is nonetheless painful for those affected
at scores of Internet firms across the country.''
Allan Kalbarczyk, company controller since its inception, has assumed
coordination of iEN financial activities. Prior to joining the
company, he served as Director of Corporate Accounting at publicly-held
MicroProse Corporation, a pioneer in interactive games. He
takes over for Robert Hart, who will remain a consultant to the company
through March 2001. ``Bob joined iEN as part of the new
senior management team in the early fall of 1999. In November of 1999,
the company completed a successful recapitalization, which
was followed by release of the qualified opinion previously assigned to
the company's financial statements by its auditors. Revenue
resumed a growth trajectory in Q1 of 2000 and iEN recorded an operating
profit in Q2 of 2000. Bob played an integral role in
repositioning the company as a viable participant in the online media
space,'' stated Pearce. ``I speak for everyone at iEN in wishing
him well in his future endeavors.''
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 10:36:31
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic
At 11:24 AM 12/15/2000 -0500, Kenji wrote:
>Dang it... you may trick me into buying _GF_, but you still can't
>make me take GURPS or the No Dead Emperor timeline thing
>seriously!!!!!!!
TO: Secret Master Loren
FROM: Pawn First Class Penguin Boy
SUBJECT: Project Kenji
I am pleased to report success. The target has been duped into purchasing
a GURPS book, which will allow us to track him more effectively. Expect
further cracks in his armor with the announcement of GT: Obscure Vilani
Languages.
Soon he will be One of Us.
Fnord.
- --
Duugirashir Irebamenagiin gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
Inquisitor Maximus, Reformed Canon Church of Sylea
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 10:55:25 -0800
From: sneadj@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: TEDs
eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
> On 12/13/00 at 01:33 PM, Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com> said:
>
> >One thing that bothers me about the TNE background -
> >technologically-elevated dictators (TEDs) are portrayed as
> >futuristic equivalents of banana republic dictators. Their
> >military forces are mostly for show, and couldn't stand up to the
> >righteous assault of the Star Vikings.
>
> <snip>
>
> >So, what if the vaunted Star Vikings launched an orbital assault
> >against a TED and found themselves up against the equivalent of the
> >Argentinian air force, who, despite losses, attempt to eradicate the
> >planethead the Vikings have established? What if the equivalent of a
> >Waffen SS Panzer division attempted to overrun the lodgement?
>
> They'd get their head headed to them. <g>
>
> >Why can't TEDs be competent?
>
> Because if they are competent, the RCES doesn't call them TEDs? No, I
> think the more competent the more likely it is the RCES *would* call
> them TEDs and try to bring them down. These thugs don't want any
> competition out there.
>
> Oh, sure, there will be systems with the classic "technologically
> elevated dictator" really is lording over the locals, but frankly I
> think that will be rare. No, actually, I've always considered the
> term TED to be a conceit of the RCES to give them a sense of moral
> superiority and to allow them to justify their reaving and piracy to
> themselves and others.
>
> I don't have a lot of respect for the RC, their bully boys, *or*
> their Hiver masters.
Very much agreed. My take on reading the material in TNE was
that the RCES mostly wanted to go in and "free" these worlds' tech
for their own use. The RCES seemed like perfectly reasonable
villains, but presenting them as heroic and as reasonable options
for PCs seemed somewhere between silly and repugnant. The
whole term "Star Viking" pretty much says it all. They looked
primarily to be about violent conquest, rampaging greed, and
destroying all potential opposition.
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 13:59:00 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Atlas of the Imperium
- --part1_1e.eaca212.276bc3f4_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 11/18/2000 11:28:08 PM Central Standard Time,
cheeb0@hotmail.com writes:
>
>
> Is the Atlas better (ie, more complete) than Anthony's files? Just
> wondering
> if it was worth buying.
>
> -J. Jensen
>
>
The Atlas shows locations buthas no text data. The Classic Traveller Reprint
(FFE 009) willinclude the Atlas AND perhaps 73 pages of UWP data (covering
the worlds shown in the Atlas) per Second Survey.
- --part1_1e.eaca212.276bc3f4_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 11/18/2000 11:28:08 PM Central Standard Time,
cheeb0@hotmail.com writes:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
Is the Atlas better (ie, more complete) than Anthony's files? Just
wondering
if it was worth buying.
-J. Jensen
</BLOCKQUOTE>
The Atlas shows locations buthas no text data. The Classic Traveller Reprint
(FFE 009) willinclude the Atlas AND perhaps 73 pages of UWP data (covering
the worlds shown in the Atlas) per Second Survey.
- --part1_1e.eaca212.276bc3f4_boundary--
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 14:10:40 -0500
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: Vilani Word list needed
Hi, Loren --
Would you be able to read a Mac Word 2000 document? I'll just run
off a formatted copy of the dictionaries as they stand now (which is
kinda totally incomplete and sketchy) and email them to you.
And to anyone else who's interested, I guess...
Kenji
>I need some kind soul to send me the URL for the Vilani dictionary that
>Kenji at al. have been working on. Specifically, I need words for "island"
>"islands" "continent" "archipelago" "peninsula" "ocean" and "sea"
>
>
>
>Loren Wiseman
> Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
> Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society http://jtas.sjgames.com/
> SJ Games
> lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
> (512) 447-7866 VOX
> (512) 447-1144 FAX
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 13:14:14 -0600
From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" <sdaniels@playnet.com>
Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
Gordon Horne wrote:
> My middle name means bright warrior.
I am "The Crowned Judgement of God"
and you will do what I say!!
Or my brother "Who is God Like", will
smite thee upon the Black Hill of the
Judgment of God.
The names are Stephen Daniels
and Michael Douglas Daniels. Only
a very little poetic license.
Bloo
(which I gather is a soap in the UK, but I've
heard used as a scandinavian first name).
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 11:41:00 -0800
From: Gordon Horne <gordon.horne@home.com>
Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
>Gordon Horne wrote:
>
>> My middle name means bright warrior.
>
>I am "The Crowned Judgement of God"
>and you will do what I say!!
>Or my brother "Who is God Like", will
>smite thee upon the Black Hill of the
>Judgment of God.
>
I'm sorry. Smiting upon the Black Hill of the Judgement of God is
being held on the sfconsim-l. The TML is currently restricted to
{/#$} (pronounced with fluid being expelled through the nose - one
reason Vilani don't get invited to many parties).
TTFN
g
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 14:49:42 -0500
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
Gordon Horne wrote:
>I'm sorry. Smiting upon the Black Hill of the Judgement of God is
>being held on the sfconsim-l. The TML is currently restricted to
>{/#$} (pronounced with fluid being expelled through the nose - one
>reason Vilani don't get invited to many parties).
I beg your pardon. There are those of us on this list who take
articulatory and acoustic phonetics seriously, even when applied to
imaginary game-accessory speakers of low-budget sci-fi languages, and
we find your snide levity highly inappropriate.
Please bring it over to the Trav-Cult mailing list where it belongs.
Kenji
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 15:00:31 -0500
From: Rob Miracle <rmiracle@ient.com>
Subject: ADMIN: Update (was Re: TML Host IENT Restructures)
I am one of the unfortunate 33. While I don't know what my immediate
future holds, these lists are still going forward and I'm staying the list
mom, though through a personal account rather than a company account. Be
assured that the TML will continue to exist and for the immediate future
through the servers at iEN.
Keep the game alive!
Rob
yer list mom.
At 12:12 PM 12/15/00 -0600, Steve (Bloo) Daniels wrote:
>http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/001215/nc_ientert.html
>
>[Yeah the formatting of this copy suck. Sorry. -bloo]
>
>RESEARCH TRIANGLE PARK AREA, N.C.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Dec. 15,
>2000--iEntertainment Network, Inc. (NASDAQ: IENT -
>news), an online media company providing evergreen entertainment content
>across a wide network of owned and affiliated Internet
>properties, today announced steps to refocus its resources on its
>established pay-for-play division.
- --
Rob Miracle
rmiracle@bellsouth.net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 15:12:17 -0500
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: Vilani Word list needed
Hm... interesting. Due to the unnatural way that the Vilani
vocabulary list was developed, we do have a complete periodic table
(including theoretical elements), a ton of military ranks, and lists
of still-unidentified cooking apparatus and office hardware.
However, most of these obviously useless terms have not yet been
found in Vilani. On the other hand, we have painfully large numbers
of synonyms for those that do exist.
For "sea": danak, gar
For "ocean": kamnam, ar
>I need some kind soul to send me the URL for the Vilani dictionary that
>Kenji at al. have been working on. Specifically, I need words for "island"
>"islands" "continent" "archipelago" "peninsula" "ocean" and "sea"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 12:27:38 -0800
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Update (was Re: TML Host IENT Restructures)
> I am one of the unfortunate 33. While I don't know what my immediate
> future holds, these lists are still going forward and I'm staying the list
> mom, though through a personal account rather than a company account. Be
> assured that the TML will continue to exist and for the immediate future
> through the servers at iEN.
Should a new server become necessary, I am more than happy to provide my
majordomo server for this noble cause. I am sure others will happily make
the same offer.
Tod
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 14:28:41 -0600
From: "Pat Connaughton" <patconnaughton@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Update (was Re: TML Host IENT Restructures)
<snip>
Rob,
Thought don't post often and when I do, I am frequently
accused of an excess of prolixity by my few remaining
friends ("be brief, dammit!" is one memorable qoute).
I thought that this might be of value.
Thanks for being the "'List Mom"
Let me know if there's any assistance that I might offer.
I really enjoy the list and while our gaming group is pretty
canonical there a bit of heresy here and there in our play, the
'list a great resource and clearinghouse for ideas, trial ballons
and oftimes, generally entertaining....err, remarks?
Thanks again
Pat Connaughton
e-mail - ptconn@earthlink.net
homepage - www.home.earthink.net/~ptconn
ICQ # 2535086
"He who knows not how to dissemble knows not
how to reign"
Tiberius, Emperator and Princips of Rome
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 08:14:46 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology
Andrew Douglas wrote:
> If possible in limited space (har har), could you give me an explanation of
> "relativistic addition of velocities?"
Not too horrible, actually:
Instead of v = v1 + v2, you need to use
v = (v1 + v2) / (1 + v1*v2/c^2)
You can derive it (through messy algebra) from the Lorentz
tranformations, or (much more easily) from the nature of geometry in
Minkowski space.
The analogy with normal space would be that velocity is like the
tangent of an angle (distance/time), so the formula for adding
velocities is like the formula for finding the tangent of a sum of two
angles. Only a tiny bit different, since the tangent is really a
hyperbolic tangent (tanh), found on most scientific calculators.
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 08:25:58 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology
James Jensen wrote:
> Which brings me to my question: If one of relativities foundations
> is that there are no absolutes, why does it assume that the speed of
> light through a vacuum absolute?
Relativity does not say that there are *no* absolutes. It says that
there is no such thing as absolute position, motion, or orientation.
Rotations, accelerations, and the speed of light *are* absolutes.
In fact, it was developed because it seemed that the speed of light
*was* absolute, by experiment. Maxwell's theory of light said it
should be, but Newton's theory of motion said it couldn't be.
Newton's theory lost, and was replaced by relativity. Maxwell's
theory took a bit longer to be replaced, by QM (also partly due to
Einstein).
- - Tim
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 13:32:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology
Timothy Little writes:
> James Jensen wrote:
> > Which brings me to my question: If one of relativities foundations
> > is that there are no absolutes, why does it assume that the speed of
> > light through a vacuum absolute?
>
> Relativity does not say that there are *no* absolutes. It says that
> there is no such thing as absolute position, motion, or orientation.
> Rotations, accelerations, and the speed of light *are* absolutes.
Um...I don't think acceleration is absolute under GR. Actually, I don't think
rotation is either. Under SR you're correct, though.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 08:41:27 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (Was (long). Now shorter)
Anthony Jackson wrote:
> However, any ship capable of skimming a gas giant for hydrogen is
> capable of skimming a gas giant for helium -- it will take longer,
Not much longer at all. Jupiter's atmosphere contains quite a lot of
helium - almost 20%. Saturn contains slightly more. I suspect that
fuel skimmers would just collect both, while the refining unit would
remove impurites like helium. When you consider how much fuel
starships use, that's a *lot* of helium.
In fact given the price of "unrefined fuel", helium must not be much
more expensive than refined LH2.
> Of course, I don't know why you want helium. If this is still about
> reactors, helium is lousy reactor fuel.
It was suggested as a pressurized gas with which to quickly shift
large volumes of LH2 from drop tanks. It was also suggested that
helium is quite expensive on Earth, and wouldn't be much cheaper in
Traveller. Given the above, I strongly disagree.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 08:54:03 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology
Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Um...I don't think acceleration is absolute under GR. Actually, I
> don't think rotation is either. Under SR you're correct, though.
Acceleration and rotation are absolutes under GR as well. Einstein
hoped that GR would have Mach's principle as a consequence, but it was
not to be. You can detect acceleration without making any external
observations even in GR.
The only complication is that non-accelerated (inertial) motion
follows geodesics, not exactly straight lines, and that you can choose
any coordinate system you like to make the maths messier.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 16:58:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Houghton <herveus@Radix.Net>
Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
Howyd!
In the midst of a fascinating discussion of Finnish naming laws, Mikko
wrote:
>
> Still, in my opinion it is strange that the candidate who got the most
> absolute votes lost. This can of course be attributed to the electorial
> college system.
It makes more sense when you realize that it is not the people of the
United States who elect the president. It is the individual States.
Consider how the members of the EU might elect a president. There could
be a general election where the candidate with the most votes gets the
job. Or, each member state might have some number of votes to cast as
they see fit. The US system is the latter model, which gives the small
states a slightly larger voice than their population might otherwise
warrant. Larger states get a bigger voice, but not strictly in proportion
to their population.
yours,
Michael
- --
Michael and MJ Houghton | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@radix.net | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
| http://www.radix.net/~herveus/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 13:58:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology
Timothy Little writes:
> Anthony Jackson wrote:
>
> > Um...I don't think acceleration is absolute under GR. Actually, I
> > don't think rotation is either. Under SR you're correct, though.
>
> Acceleration and rotation are absolutes under GR as well. Einstein
> hoped that GR would have Mach's principle as a consequence, but it was
> not to be. You can detect acceleration without making any external
> observations even in GR.
How can you detect that your observed 'acceleration' is not actually a
gravitational field?
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3397
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3398
Date: | 12/15/00 4:12:18 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Friday, December 15 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3398
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Dangerous Kobolds was: Re: TEDs
Re: FTL Physics Question
Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting
Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting
Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic
Re: TEDs
Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting
RE: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting
AHHH! Sailor Moon! (Was Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting)
Nasal Expulsions (was: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))
Re: Question
Re: Relativity & FTL
Re: More Task System Heresy
Re: Aw crap..... was:RE: Question
Rob Miracle - List Manager
Re: ADMIN: Update (was Re: TML Host IENT Restructures)
Re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology
OT (sorta): Dune novel
Re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology
Re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology
Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3391
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 16:05:31 -0600
From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@mail.elc.net>
Subject: Re: Dangerous Kobolds was: Re: TEDs
- ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 00:43 +0000 (GMT)
>In-Reply-To: <E146XDz-0007DY-00@pizza.st.net.au>
>Greetings dear hearts.
>
>The real problem is when you meet FRENCH-SPEAKING reasonably organised
>Kobolds wearing Napoleonic-style uniforms.
>
>I have. I survived (just)... ran away and ended up being captured by
>goblins. Rest of the party perished. Oh well. Charmed the boss goblin and
>ended up his Most Valued Counsellor (his capitals). Now being continued by
>e-mail post convention.
I remember one time I sprang about a half-dozen orcs on a ranger PC riding though a forest ... yeah, that's what he though too, until they suddenly formed up into an inverted 'V' and began approaching him while maintaining formation.
Anyone remember Tucker's Kobolds, from some old Dragon editorials? Or was that how this goet started? ...
Brandon
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 13:09:53 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: FTL Physics Question
In mail you write:
> Question, what happens in this curcumstance:
> Regina reference frame:
> Regina speed=0
> Capitol speed= very little
> your ship and your friends ship speed=99.9% of light speed towards
> Capitol from Regina
> another ship speed=99.9% of light speed from Capitol towards Regina
>
> Regina thinks that your ship and the other ship should see each
> other before impact as neither ship is moving faster than light.
>
> your reference frame:
> You never see the ship that hit you as it was approching at 199.8%
> the speed of light
Wrong!
Velocities don't add that way except at speeds *way* below c. Here's
how you add velocities (with velocities expressed as fractions of c):
Vt = (V1+V2)/(1+(V1*V2)
Vt = (.999+.999)/(1+(.999*.999))
Vt = 1.998/1.998001
Vt = .999999499...
Let's try it with a pair of ships moving in the same direction. One at
.8c and one at .6 c.
Vt = (.8-.6)/(1+(.8*-.6))
Vt = .2/(1-.48)
Vt = .2/.52
Vt = .3846...
and from the other ship:
Vt = (-.8+.6)/(1+(-.8+.6))
Vt = -.2/(1-.48)
Vt = -.2/.52
Vt = -.3846...
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 13:25:16 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting
In mail you write:
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:
>> Or the routine someone used in a campaign I was in:
>>
>> Torture the prisoner until he's almost dead. Apply cure wounds
>> until he's reasonably healthy. Repeat until he talks...
>
> Okay, if we're going down that path: Make the victim immortal and
> regenerating, then lock him forever in the deepest dungeon with a
> Lament Configuration puzzle box!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What's that?
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 14:23:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
Subject: Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting
On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> In mail you write:
>
> > Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:
> >> Or the routine someone used in a campaign I was in:
> >>
> >> Torture the prisoner until he's almost dead. Apply cure wounds
> >> until he's reasonably healthy. Repeat until he talks...
> >
> > Okay, if we're going down that path: Make the victim immortal and
> > regenerating, then lock him forever in the deepest dungeon with a
> > Lament Configuration puzzle box!
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> What's that?
You never saw Hellraiser?
....oooh....
I once had a dream where I was Sailor Moon and I had to fight Pinhead.
this was like, 6 years ago, and I still shudder when I think about it...
kirichan yori ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..." -- X-JAPAN
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 15:18:13 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu>
>>"You call that a margarita, soldier?! I have seen better drinks
>>mixed by a six-day-drunk Vargr corsair! Do NOT make me decide that
>>you cannot tell vermouth from gin, I will make you regret the day
>>you cracked open your first bottle of Gushemedge sambvka! You had
>>best start mixing right or I will mix you right out of this
>>sophont's army!"
>
>Oh, at the very least. Norris being Norris, I would expect that all
>members of SBS can not only bench-press a full keg, but give great
>lap dances, too.
Kenji, no matter what everyone else says, it is good to have you back.
I bid you peace.
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"
"I don't need Romance. I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
USS Excaliber.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 15:28:08 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: TEDs
From: sneadj@mindspring.com <sneadj@mindspring.com>
<< Very much agreed. My take on reading the material in TNE was that the
RCES mostly wanted to go in and "free" these worlds' tech for their own use.
The RCES seemed like perfectly reasonable villains, but presenting them as
heroic and as reasonable options for PCs seemed somewhere between silly and
repugnant. The whole term "Star Viking" pretty much says it all. They
looked primarily to be about violent conquest, rampaging greed, and
destroying all potential opposition.
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com >>
Two things here, John.
1) This sounds like the average Party of PCs.
2) GDW just made it canon.
I bid you peace.
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"
"I don't need Romance. I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
USS Excaliber.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 13:24:49 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
At 1:30 PM +0100 12/13/00, Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm wrote:
>Under the naming laws used in Scandinavia (Sweden, Finland, Norway,
>Denmark, Iceland), at least in the countries I know these laws of, you
>are allowed to take an "odd" name if you have cultural background etc.
>to motivate it.
>
>What is disallowed is taking an "odd" name without apparent reason.
>However, the laws are quite loose on that subject as well. Names which
>are obviously silly, like "Idiot" or "Gravel" (actually tried and denied
>in Sweden), will not be allowed. However...
>
>There is one man with the name Sauron.
>There are four men with the name Legolas. Two of them have that name as
>their primary name.
>(source: Swedish Central Buerau of Statistics)
>
>The laws are not that strict after all ;-)
There is, I think, a different mindset in Europe. Alistair Cooke
(a Brit who did a series on America) noted the higher value placed
on individualism . I know that,to me (and I think most Americans),
it wouldn't matter how flexibly and fairly such a law was implemented.
It just wouldn't be accepted that the government had any right to
make any rules in such an area, no matter how it was done. This is
similar to; rules in some European countries where the government
collects mandatory contribution on behalf of the religions in their
country, rules that allow the government to keep track of where
you live, etc. This goes even down to such things as measurements
and money. One reason Europe when metric and the US didn't was
the acceptance of the population that the government had the
prerogative to force everyone to change how they measured things.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net. My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 14:38:18 -0800
From: "Acting President Thing" <thingunderthestairs@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting
On Friday, December 15, 2000 2:23 PM
Kiri Aradia Morgan
> I once had a dream where I was Sailor Moon and I had to fight Pinhead.
That was no dream.
At least there where no Sumo involved. ;)
G.D.D.
Thing under the stairs,
Minion of Shechemist & GothBunny,
Grand Master of the Electron Flow.
===========================
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 11:50:22 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting
Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote :
> I once had a dream where I was Sailor Moon and I had to fight Pinhead.
That seems remarkably appropriate.
(Sailor Moon fighting Pinhead, I mean, not neccessarily you having the
dream)
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 16:45:13 -0600
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
Subject: AHHH! Sailor Moon! (Was Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting)
>I once had a dream where I was Sailor Moon and I had to fight Pinhead.
Personally, I'd be fighting Sailor Moon.
- -J. Jensen
========================================
http://members.nbci.com/cheebzero/
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 16:43:03 -0600
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <dasmart@avaya.com>
Subject: Nasal Expulsions (was: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))
Gordon Horne posted:
> Subject:
>
> >Gordon Horne wrote:
> >
> >> My middle name means bright warrior.
> >
> >I am "The Crowned Judgement of God"
> >and you will do what I say!!
> >Or my brother "Who is God Like", will
> >smite thee upon the Black Hill of the
> >Judgment of God.
> >
>
> I'm sorry. Smiting upon the Black Hill of the Judgement of God is
> being held on the sfconsim-l. The TML is currently restricted to
> {/#$} (pronounced with fluid being expelled through the nose - one
> reason Vilani don't get invited to many parties).
Huh. So I guess the last keyboard kill made me Vilani.
(No wonder Dr. Pepper through the nose hurts.)
Can I roll for my new aging modifiers now?
Hey! Maybe I *will* live for the next 100 years! Woohoo!
David
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 14:08:31 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Question
In mail you write:
> Sorry, thought everyone knew it. It's:
> http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/trav_welcome.htm
I'm looking at it on another machine right now. I think you should
consider having T-shirts made with the "Happiness is a warm minigun"
Ditzie picture on them. :-)
> http://vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/shooting/dec00-shoot/
> I grabbed all the best frames :) You're in there firing that 20mm cannon
> Leonard!
I still say that's a LAG for BD troops. :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 14:41:50 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Relativity & FTL
In mail you write:
> With all this talk about FTL physics flying around, something just popped
> out at me. I don't think FTL = Time Travel.
>
> The thing is that we don't know the *exact* effects of FTL travel.
> Relativistic formulae don't help because their math quickly degenerates into
> crud (it's still impossible to square-root a negative number).
Sorry, not only is it *possible*, it's done all the time in electrical
engineering. Don't ask me for details, but AC formulas do involve
sqrt(-1).
> If your speed is greater than c, the contractions will continue and the
> universe and you will begin to expand again - backwards.
Sorry, but the math simply doesn't work that way.
Keep in mind that one way of handling "imaginary" numbers has them at
right angles to the "real" numbers. So, at 2 c, amn object 1 meter long
in the direction of travel might be 1 meter long in a direction at
right angles to the direction of travel...
This gets *really* odd for time and mass. :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 14:52:33 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: More Task System Heresy
In mail you write:
>> Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm wrote :
>>
>> When a die is rolled and it comes up as a 6, replace it with two dice.
>> Repeat until sick. (stolen from Eon, a Swedish RPG).
>
> And they stole it with minor modification from us <grin>
>
> OK, I'll have to post it now, Our version, known as 3D6 open-ended (TM) is
> as follows :
>
> 1. Roll two normal D6 and one Fate die
> 2. Add the spots on the two normal die
> 3. If the Fate die shows a red six,
> subtract six from previous total
> otherwise
> add the result to the previous total.
> 4. If the Fate die shows a red six or a black six,
> roll another Fate die and goto step 3
Obiously the "fate die" is *not* numbered 1 thru 6. Not if it has
*both* red sixes and black sixes. So how is it numbered?
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 14:59:56 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Aw crap..... was:RE: Question
In mail you write:
> I just had an opportunity to capture all the video, but found out something
> bad. While the camera I have is very hi-zoot and has *great* video & audio
> (it's a Canon XL-1), those very features can come back and bite you on the
> ass. I've got all the video all right, but no audio. You see, I use that
> camera here at work all the time, but we always use a seperate studio
> microphone setup, and I had the on-board microphone turned off!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> !+)@*(%+(*&#$_)(&@_$#_%+_)(!*@#%+@#_+$^@#_+%^(!#_)_!^_*&~@+(+#(^)(*#*&!_#@(*
> +)(!&#^_(*@$^&_!(@#*%+_!#_*@!$&*@&#_%(*$*)~@)$*+)(#&^_+^!(*#@+$(&^+_)(&!#+%(
> *~@)*+~@*%#&!^+)(&@!$+^(&+!+!(&$#_+&@+$*~+@$*+~@_&$*&$)_!#%+~@(*)%+(!&#^+*&%
> )(*^&_W)$&^+@$*(%+!)@#(+~)(@+$*!#^+(&@+$*~#(&^_(*$&@_(&^%+~@*($+~)(*@+%(&*+_
> )$^+)(@!&#$^_*(&#^+)(!*#$~@($+~*(+$*~@+%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> (The above is a direct quote heard from me in the video lab when I realized
> this)
>
> <sigh> So, I've got great video, but no audio. It's a damn shame too,
> 'cause there were some GREAT comments by Mark Cook and others.
Well, consider that unless they made them while the range was "down",
odds are they'd be unintelligible due to background noise.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 17:13:15 -0600
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Rob Miracle - List Manager
Rob Miracle wrote:
> I am one of the unfortunate 33. While I don't know what my immediate
> future holds, these lists are still going forward and I'm staying the list
> mom, though through a personal account rather than a company account. Be
> assured that the TML will continue to exist and for the immediate future
> through the servers at iEN.
>
> Keep the game alive!
>
> Rob
> yer list mom.
I've got to step out of the line here and give some credit where credit is
due.
Rob Miracle is a superb list manager. I was thinking the other day about how
"comfortable" the TML feels. I missed it the two years I was gone.
I've been on other lists, for other games I ran, and some of those power
hungry, this-is-my-mountain list managers get under your skin more often than
the list butt-holes do.
Rob funs a fine show.
Applause from this small side of the audience.
Kenneth.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 17:15:46 -0600
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Update (was Re: TML Host IENT Restructures)
Pat Connaughton wrote:
> Thanks for being the "'List Mom"
> Let me know if there's any assistance that I might offer.
> I really enjoy the list and while our gaming group is pretty
> canonical there a bit of heresy here and there in our play, the
> 'list a great resource and clearinghouse for ideas, trial ballons
> and oftimes, generally entertaining....err, remarks?
Oh...I see someone else got struck with the same feeling of appreciation
that I did.
That I sent my post before reading this one should tell you something,
Rob. I'm sure most of the TML feels the same (because those old cogers
have been around for such a long time).
Kenneth.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 15:29:30 -0800
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
Subject: Re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology
Anthony Jackson wrote:
> How can you detect that your observed 'acceleration' is not actually a
> gravitational field?
Well, that's the neat thing--from Einstein's thought experiment of the
man on the elevator holding the briefcase--you can't. Acceleration is
acceleration whether from a rocket engine or a gravitational field.
Kristian
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 17:28:58 -0600
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: OT (sorta): Dune novel
I just finished DUNE. What a sensational read!
Great freakin' book.
I remember starting it, years ago, when I was in high school. I
couldn't get into the damned thing. I was so bored with it.
I guess, back then, at 16, I needed dead-head action--not deep
psycho-babble.
I had completely forgotten about the book until the big hoopla over the
SciFi mini-series. I got the itch for some good scifi, and I decided to
check DUNE out again.
I looked on amazon.com, as I do sometimes when I want to poll what
others thought. This one review got me (I could have written it): It
was written by a guy who had started the book, like I did, in high
school, but was unable to get past the first third of the book.
He put it down, forgot about it, only to pick it up again years later.
He said it was a whole new world for him--he guessed that he had to have
some life experiece behind him to fully enjoy the book.
I couldn't agree more. I haven't enjoyed a book this much in a while.
It is a fantastic read. If you are like me and haven't taken the time
to give this book a try, you should do so. It has a "Traveller-esque"
feel, yet it's a story all its own. You've got nobles and battles, the
intrigues and political maneuvering of an interstellar caste system,
deep thoughts, philosophy, psychic powers, heightened human awareness
and abilities, and religious fanatics willing to die for their beliefs.
It's an amazing universe.
I'm going to start book 2, DUNE MESSIAH, tonight.
Ob Trav: Read the book! Steal the ideas and background for your
Traveller game!
Kenneth.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 10:46:13 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology
Anthony Jackson wrote:
> How can you detect that your observed 'acceleration' is not actually
> a gravitational field?
In GR, gravitational fields do not produce accelerations.
Accelerations are only due to non-gravitational influences.
For example, if you drop an apple it does not accelerate. *You* are
accelerating, being pushed off a geodesic path by stress in the floor
beneath your feet.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 18:49:33 -0500
From: "Dan Lane" <danielrlane@home.com>
Subject: Re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology
Tidal forces.
- -Dan Lane
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Kristian Miller" <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology
> Anthony Jackson wrote:
>
> > How can you detect that your observed 'acceleration' is not actually a
> > gravitational field?
>
> Well, that's the neat thing--from Einstein's thought experiment of the
> man on the elevator holding the briefcase--you can't. Acceleration is
> acceleration whether from a rocket engine or a gravitational field.
>
> Kristian
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 19:10:04 -0500
From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel
Kenneth Bearden wrote:
> I just finished DUNE. What a sensational read!
I agree wholeheartedly. I finally got around to reading this about 3 years ago, and it's definitely in my SF all-time Top 5*. I enjoyed this book so much that I went out and got copies of several of the sequels, but have heard such universally bad things about them that I've never gotten around to reading them. I'd like to hear your take (especially if it's positive; I've heard enough negative ones).
While we're on the topic, did anyone see the SF Channel movie? I caught a few minutes of it and was turned off in a big way. The David Lynch movie was a huge failure in many ways (especially if you haven't read the book beforehand) but at least it looks good -- this movie's cheap computer generated f/x were embarrassing by comparison, and distracted me so much I didn't even notice if the acting or adaptation were any good (and turned away at the next commercial break).
Trent
*The others are: 'The Foundation Trilogy,' 'Stranger in a Strange Land,' 'The Left Hand of Darkness' and an open slot for something I haven't read yet (or, if I never read another good SF novel, 'Fahrenheit 451').
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 15:04:21 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3391
In mail you write:
> At 07:31 PM 12/14/2000 EST, you wrote:
>
>>What ethnicity is the US anyway? My father used to say you could pick any
>>ethic group you cared to and there were at least 250,000 of them in
> Chicago .
>>. . and they all voted Democratic. I swear the place has street signs in
>>Samoan in some neighborhoods.
>
> Let's see... I live in San Francisco. Go to Chinatown, and the street
> signs are in Chinese (as are the menus at McDonalds). Head across
> Columbus, and Italian is still a very common language in North Beach. Go
> into the Mission District, and you're likely to hear Vietnamese, Spanish,
> and Tagalog. In my neighborhood, we have a large Russian population, so
> stores with Cyrillic signs in the window are not uncommon. The guy who
> owns the barbershop I go to is a veteran of the Red Army's push on Berlin,
> and tells great stories in an odd mixture of English, Russian, and Uzbeck.
Here in Portland, some of the government offices have notices in
*twelve* languages (I counted once while waiting to talk to someone).
And about 9 alphabets...
> ObTrav: Startowns are likely to show similar hybrid insanity. Good local
> color would be competing ethnic restaurants, shops run by off-worlders for
> expatriates, and locals looking for bargains that they can't find at the
> local version of WalMart.
Which is why I'm collecting odd fonts. At the moment I have the
following "language" fonts that are sorted out from the huge "heap"
I've grabbed from alt.binaries.fonts:
Real languages:
Arabic
Chinese
Farsi
Greek
Hebrew
Hieroglyphs (Egyptian)
Japanese (Hirigana & Katakana)
Mayan
Ogham
Runes (Norse, Anglo-saxon, etc)
Sanskrit
Turkish
Ugaritic
"Magickal" (ie used in the real world, but mostly for
magickal/ceremonial purposes):
Angelic
Ararat
Arax-barb
Aurabesh
Deseret
Enochian
Hermetic
Fictional:
Bajoran, Ancient (Star Trek)
Bajoran, Modern (Star Trek)
Binar (Star Trek)
Cardassian (Star Trek)
Centauri (Babylon 5)
Ferengi (Star Trek)
Interlac (from the old DC Legion of Superheroes comics)
Klinzhai (Star Trek)
Malcorian (Star Trek?)
Pak-ma-ra (Babylon 5)
Tengwar (for Tokien's Quenya)
Trill (Star Trek)
Tsolyani (Empire of the Petal Throne)
Vorlon (Babylon 5)
Vulcan, Ancient (Star Trek)
Vulcan, Modern (Star Trek)
And I know I have several other languages somewhere (Thai & Vietnamese
for certain).
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3398
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Subj: | Traveller-digest V1999 #3399
Date: | 12/15/00 7:04:35 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest) Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com Reply-to: traveller@lists.ient.com To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com

Traveller-digest Friday, December 15 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 3399
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Dangerous Kobolds was: Re: TEDs
Re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology
Re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology
Re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology
Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3391
Re: Atlas of the Imperium
Re: AHHH! Sailor Moon!
Re: Reft sector X-boat link
Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (Was (long). Now shorter)
Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (Was (long). Now shorter)
Re: Technology Marches On: RealLife (tm) Holotanks
Re: TEDs
Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (Was (long). Now shorter)
Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel
Re: Reft sector X-boat link
RE: Aw crap..... was:RE: Question
RE: Question
Re: Question
Re: Question
RE: Question
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 15:36:24 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Dangerous Kobolds was: Re: TEDs
In mail you write:
> In-Reply-To: <E146XDz-0007DY-00@pizza.st.net.au>
> Greetings dear hearts.
>
> The real problem is when you meet FRENCH-SPEAKING reasonably organised
> Kobolds wearing Napoleonic-style uniforms.
Try German-speaking Ogres, wearing SS uniforms...
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 15:42:42 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology
In mail you write:
> 1) There's a paradox raised by relativity that has bothered me for some
> time. Perhaps one of you can help, or point me in the right direction.
>
> You're an observer. You look out and see two ships, one heading
> right-to-left ("west") at 0.75c. Another, at about the same distance and in
> about the same direction from you, is headed left-to-right ("east"), also at
> 0.75c. The speeds are measured by you, an outside observer.
>
> <---ship 1 ship 2--->
>
>
>
> You.
>
>
> That's fine. You see two ships, contracted in length a little and
> red-shifted as they fly away from you. BUT.... What does a person on ship 1
> see when they look at ship 2? The speed of ship 2 relative to ship 1 is
> 1.5c, right? Is that possible? Does this mean light from ship 2 will never
> reach ship 1? Does it mean that ship 2 will simply disappear from view when
> observed from ship 1? What will the observer on ship 1 measure the speed of
> ship 2 to be?
Velocities add like this (with velocities in units of c=1):
(V1 + V2)
Vt = --------------
1 + (V1 * V2)
So they see each other as moving apart at .96 c.
> I guess what I'm failing to understand is the cosmic speed limit. If there
> is no ether, and everything is relative, then what are we measuring the
> speed of light relative TO? If those two ships pass one another, a person on
> one ship (believing it to be stationary) will say "Crikey! A ship just blew
> past us at 1.5c!"
Nope. At .96 c. :-)
> 2) Hubble determined that everything is flying away from everything else.
No. He determined that the universe is expanding. Not at all the same thing.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 15:49:17 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology
In mail you write:
> Which brings me to my question: If one of relativities foundations is that
> there are no absolutes,
That *isn't* one of relativity's foundations.
It says that all inertial frames of reference are equally vaild.
> why does it assume that the speed of light through a vacuum absolute?
It doesn't *assume* that. That's an observed fact. Relativity tries to
come up with a set of rules that are *consistent* with that
observation, and with all the older observations.
The fact that c is the same in all frames of reference leads to the
weird stuff like the Lorentz-Fitgerald contraction, the weird way
velocities add, and all the rest.
Oh yeah, just in case you missed the previous postings <g>, here's the
velocity addition yet again. An observer sees an object moving away from
him with velocity A, and another moving away in the opposite direction
with velocity B. What is their velocity relative to each other (C)?
C = (A+B)/(1+(A*B))
If they aren't moving along the same line, you break their motion into
vectors such that one vector *is* in the same line and the other is at
right angles to that line. You then apply the formula above to the
co-linear vector, then add the result to the other vector for each
object to get the vectors they see each other as having.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 15:59:52 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology
In mail you write:
> Yes. Interestingly, light sent from a moving point travels at C no
> matter the direction or speed of its origin, so a ship travelling at
> .99C firing a laser forwards would not have an FTL laser.
No, but if they were moving towards a target, the laser would be
blueshifted like crazy (increasing the effective power).
> Since the 2 ship issue involves time dilation on both parts, I
> believe that both ships would see the other moving slower than .75C,
> not faster. Counter intuitive, I know. Relativity is weird.
Nope. See the formula that I've posted several times so far. Relativity
*is* weird, but not *that* weird. You forgot that *in addition* to time
dilatiaion, they'll also see distances in their direction of travel as
being shorter.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 16:26:56 -0800
From: Gordon Horne <gordon.horne@home.com>
Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)
>Please bring it over to the Trav-Cult mailing list where it belongs.
>
I thought that was one of the many dead Traveller lists. Apparently not.
g
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 11:32:15 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3391
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> Which is why I'm collecting odd fonts. At the moment I have the
> following "language" fonts that are sorted out from the huge "heap"
> I've grabbed from alt.binaries.fonts:
[... huge list...]
Wow! Any chance of putting them on a website, or even just mailing
them to me?. You've got a much better collection than I have. I
guess I'm not quite so dedicated to sorting through a million
minor variations on Helvetica and even more weird symbol fonts.
- - Tim
(still looking for a good fixed-width shell font with DOS symbols for
a 1600x1200 screen under X)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 09:56:16 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Atlas of the Imperium
> From: CardSharks@aol.com
> The Atlas shows locations buthas no text data. The Classic Traveller
> Reprint (FFE 009) willinclude the Atlas AND perhaps 73 pages of UWP data
> (covering the worlds shown in the Atlas) per Second Survey.
Second Survey? Wasn't at least some of that stuff buggy? I recall an
article in the last (?) issue of Challenge saying something along these
lines.
Also, how compatible is it with the First Survey material?
(I'm thinking of starting to write up a campaign in Core Sector in the GT
timeline. I am trying to decide what world data to use.)
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 19:56:12 -0500
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: AHHH! Sailor Moon!
>Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 16:45:13 -0600
>From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com>
>Subject: AHHH! Sailor Moon! (Was Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting)
>
>>I once had a dream where I was Sailor Moon and I had to fight Pinhead.
>
>Personally, I'd be fighting Sailor Moon.
Careful:
Tuxedo Kamen ... Penguin Boy
It can't be a coincidence.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 16:05:53 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Reft sector X-boat link
In mail you write:
> Well, they can use the same resources for both. Jump travel is
> fundamentally different from the sea travel we all pretty much
> unconciously think of when we think of trade routes. The proper sea
> travel analogy would be to imagine that ships could teleport from a
> few miles outside one port to a few miles outside another port
> (Though jump shadowing does complicate things somewhat). Anyway, the
> IN would only have to guard a few spots in each system in order to
> guard a trade route. There is no need to escort each merchant. And
> the same guard ships would safeguard those spots for X-boat travel.
Actually, they'd have to guard more than "a few spots".
Remember, the stars/planets/etc are *moving* relative to each other. If
you emerge from jump on time, and with good accuracy, you are quite
near whatever point on the "near" side of the 100 diameter limit you
were aiming at.
But if you emerge a dozen hours early or late, you'll be quite near
that same point. But the *planet* won't be there.
Earth moves in its orbit at around 30 km/sec IIRC. That's 108,000 km an
hour. Or 2,592,000 km a day. That's a *long* ways away. At 1 g it's
only a few minutes for a 1 hour error (208 sec). A 1 day error is 17
minutes at 1 g (1018 seconds). Not a catastrophe, but enough to be way
too big an area to patrol easily. Especially when you consider that
folks won't necessarily be aiming for the same exit point with respect
to the planet. *Especially* if they are jumping from different systems.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 16:18:24 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (Was (long). Now shorter)
In mail you write:
>> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 14:24:41 PST
>> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>> Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (long).
>
> <snip>
>
>> BTW, even if you *do* use "simple" gas pressure, the only gas you can
>> use is helium. And that's not cheap. And won't be even in the future.
>
> Not even a future where anything with H in it can be tossed into a fusion
> reactor and the output is lots of energy and He? (It's implied in FFS the
> 1st)
Check out how much energy fusing a kilogram of hydrogen into helium
releases.[1] You'll find that the reactors *aren't* producing
significant amounts of helium.
[1] it's around 90 *terajoules*.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 16:23:30 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (Was (long). Now shorter)
In mail you write:
> DaveShayne writes:
>
>>> BTW, even if you *do* use "simple" gas pressure, the only gas you can
>>> use is helium. And that's not cheap. And won't be even in the future.
>>
>> Not even a future where anything with H in it can be tossed into a fusion
>> reactor and the output is lots of energy and He? (It's implied in FFS the
>> 1st)
>
> Actually, that's not a good source particularly -- reactors may
> produce helium, but they don't produce very much of it. However, any
> ship capable of skimming a gas giant for hydrogen is capable of
> skimming a gas giant for helium -- it will take longer, so helium
> will be considerably more expensive than refined hydrogen, but it
> still won't be all that expensive.
It depends on what method is used for seperating out the hydrogen
during "skimming". Some could be adapted to get the helium as well as
the hydrogen. Or instead of. Others won't let you do that.
> Of course, I don't know why you want helium. If this is still about
> reactors, helium is lousy reactor fuel.
No, it's about trying to "pressurize" that's at LH2 temps. Helium is
the only thing that's a gas below 20 K.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 16:30:19 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Technology Marches On: RealLife (tm) Holotanks
In mail you write:
> From New Scientist magazine, 16 December 2000.
>
> -- quote --
>
> You Can touch It, Turn It, But It Isn't Really There
>
>
> SURGEONS and designers could soon be manipulating 3D moving
> images floating in mid-air rather than on computer screens,
> say engineers at DERA, Britain's soon-to-be-privatised
> defence research lab. They say designers will be able to
> extend a car's bodywork just by waving a stylus, and almost
> instantly see what it looks like--or surgeons could twist a
> brain scan around to locate an injury.
>
> "We can create a real image floating in 3D space," says
> Chris Slinger, head of holography at the Defence Evaluation
> and Research Agency in Malvern, Worcestershire...
>
> -- end quote --
>
> The full story is at:
> http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns226914
>
> ObTrav: Just like the holotank on the Donosev-class scout
> cruiser.
Just what I've been waiting for for *years*. And the "final solution"
to the 3-d map problem.
Of course, as pointed out in the Mageworlds books by Doyle and
MacDonald, you get *very* different feels for a situation when you are
looking at it in a "tank" as opposed to looking out from the middle
with VR gear or a "surround screen" type display.
The former makes you "detached from the situation. The latter makes you
feel a part of it.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 19:55:57 -0500
From: knightsky@juno.com
Subject: Re: TEDs
On Fri, 15 Dec 2000 10:55:25 -0800 sneadj@mindspring.com writes:
> eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
>
> > On 12/13/00 at 01:33 PM, Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com>
> said:
> >
> > >One thing that bothers me about the TNE background -
> > >technologically-elevated dictators (TEDs) are portrayed as
> > >futuristic equivalents of banana republic dictators. Their
> > >military forces are mostly for show, and couldn't stand up to the
> > >righteous assault of the Star Vikings.
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > >So, what if the vaunted Star Vikings launched an orbital assault
> > >against a TED and found themselves up against the equivalent of
> the
> > >Argentinian air force, who, despite losses, attempt to eradicate
> the
> > >planethead the Vikings have established? What if the equivalent
> of a
> > >Waffen SS Panzer division attempted to overrun the lodgement?
> >
> > They'd get their head headed to them. <g>
> >
> > >Why can't TEDs be competent?
> >
> > Because if they are competent, the RCES doesn't call them TEDs?
> No, I
> > think the more competent the more likely it is the RCES *would*
> call
> > them TEDs and try to bring them down. These thugs don't want any
> > competition out there.
> >
> > Oh, sure, there will be systems with the classic "technologically
> > elevated dictator" really is lording over the locals, but frankly
> I
> > think that will be rare. No, actually, I've always considered the
> > term TED to be a conceit of the RCES to give them a sense of moral
> > superiority and to allow them to justify their reaving and piracy
> to
> > themselves and others.
> >
> > I don't have a lot of respect for the RC, their bully boys, *or*
> > their Hiver masters.
>
> Very much agreed. My take on reading the material in TNE was
> that the RCES mostly wanted to go in and "free" these worlds' tech
> for their own use. The RCES seemed like perfectly reasonable
> villains, but presenting them as heroic and as reasonable options
> for PCs seemed somewhere between silly and repugnant. The
> whole term "Star Viking" pretty much says it all. They looked
> primarily to be about violent conquest, rampaging greed, and
> destroying all potential opposition.
>
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
>
>
You know, I was actually considering breaking down and finally buying a
copy of TNE... but it looks like my initial fears were justified
(something always struck me as "wrong" from what little I heard of TNE,
but I could never quite place my finger on it).
Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 20:19:20 -0500
From: Eric Freitas <efreitos@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (Was (long). Now shorter)
At 16:18 12/15/00 -0800, you wrote:
>Check out how much energy fusing a kilogram of hydrogen into helium
>releases.[1] You'll find that the reactors *aren't* producing
>significant amounts of helium.
>
>[1] it's around 90 *terajoules*.
>
So mount helium collectors on all military warship fusion plants. That ought
to increase your production a bit in a universe with so many warships..
Eric
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 20:29:26 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel
trentfs@ix.netcom.com writes:
>
>Kenneth Bearden wrote:
>> I just finished DUNE. What a sensational read!
>
>
>
>I agree wholeheartedly. I finally got around to reading this about 3 years
ago, and
>it's definitely in my SF all-time Top 5*. I enjoyed this book so much that
I went
>out and got copies of several of the sequels, but have heard such
universally bad
>things about them that I've never gotten around to reading them. I'd like
to hear
>your take (especially if it's positive; I've heard enough negative ones).
>
Read the first three back to back, as they are really all one story. God
Emperor (#4) is the weakest of the bunch to me, but serves as the endpoint
for that version of Herbert's universe. If you find yourself skimming it,
stick to the bits that aren't the Emperor's musings. I'd say more but that
would spoil things.
ChapterHouse and Heretics are...different. They are rousing reads, but
(aside from one factor) are so different from the rest that they should be
taken as a pair and seperated a bit from the rest.
All in all, I like the whole set except for God Emperor, and it's excuse is
that it's really the middle of the trilogy...
GC
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 13:10:19 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: Reft sector X-boat link
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> Actually, they'd have to guard more than "a few spots".
>
> Remember, the stars/planets/etc are *moving* relative to each other. If
> you emerge from jump on time, and with good accuracy, you are quite
> near whatever point on the "near" side of the 100 diameter limit you
> were aiming at.
This ties in nicely with the relativity thread. If jumpspace defines
a preferred frame of reference, what is it? IMTU it is defined by a
galactic mean rotation frame (non-inertial!). Over geological
timescales stresses build up due to variations in stellar motion and
it catastrophically shifts.
> But if you emerge a dozen hours early or late, you'll be quite near
> that same point. But the *planet* won't be there.
It is likely that the star won't be, either. The dispersion in
stellar velocities is of the same order of magnitude as Earth's orbit.
Most tend to have motions of about 0-60 km/s with respect to the local
mean. That's about 0-100 km/s with respect to each other.
It is a random distribution though -- some stars have been observed
going over 200 km/s relative to nearby stars. Then there is an
additional random distribution of planetary speeds to worry about as
Leonard writes. Smaller stars have faster planets in their life
zones (I think roughly proportional to the inverse cube of mass).
However, the warships guarding the jump exit points can be motionless
w.r.t. the jumpspace frame of reference rather than a planetary
reference frame. That way anyone who jumps to their location will
arrive there no matter the random variation in jump time. They can
shift their location every few days to stay within reasonable travel
time of a planet or base.
Half of the 'on-duty' guard ships could wait at point X for a day or
so with some X-boat tenders, and gathering up a merchant convoy. Then
they escort them to the planet and out to a third jump point Z, while
the other half guard a second jump point Y.
More rigid and less time-efficient for merchants than 'jump anywhere'
free travel, but much safer from hostile attacks. The X-boats still
have their normal turnaround time since the tenders are right on the
spot.
- --
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 18:18:18 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: Aw crap..... was:RE: Question
> Well, consider that unless they made them while the range was "down",
> odds are they'd be unintelligible due to background noise.
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
>
Yeah, audio can get a bit washed out occaisionally on a machinegun range :)
Jesse
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 18:24:46 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: Question
> > Sorry, thought everyone knew it. It's:
> > http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/trav_welcome.htm
>
> I'm looking at it on another machine right now. I think you should
> consider having T-shirts made with the "Happiness is a warm minigun"
> Ditzie picture on them. :-)
What do you think I plan on wearing to BayCon and any other cons I can get
to in 2001? :)
> > http://vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/shooting/dec00-shoot/
> > I grabbed all the best frames :) You're in there firing that
> 20mm cannon
> > Leonard!
>
> I still say that's a LAG for BD troops. :-)
No argument here :)
Jesse
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 19:47:57 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Question
From: Jesse Degraff <jedegraf@cisco.com>
>> > http://vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/shooting/dec00-shoot/
>> > I grabbed all the best frames :) You're in there firing that
>> 20mm cannon
>> > Leonard!
>>
>> I still say that's a LAG for BD troops. :-)
>
>No argument here :)
One argument. Who let Kenji near a weapon, much less shoot one? I
would not trust him, no matter how much I like him, with a butter knife
around me, much less a fire-arm. Remember the time at the Country Club with
the salad oil? <j/k>
I bid you peace.
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"
"I don't need Romance. I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
USS Excaliber.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 19:50:15 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Question
From: Jesse Degraff <jedegraf@cisco.com>
>> > http://vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/shooting/dec00-shoot/
>> > I grabbed all the best frames :) You're in there firing that
>> 20mm cannon
>> > Leonard!
>>
>> I still say that's a LAG for BD troops. :-)
>
>No argument here :)
Hey Jesse, where did you get the Barret?
I bid you peace.
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"
"I don't need Romance. I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
USS Excaliber.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 19:02:56 -0800
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: Question
The Barrett I'm firing belongs to a (very rich) buddy of Tod Glenn's.
Jesse
"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Legate Legion
> Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 6:50 PM
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: Question
>
>
> From: Jesse Degraff <jedegraf@cisco.com>
>
> >> > http://vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/shooting/dec00-shoot/
> >> > I grabbed all the best frames :) You're in there firing that
> >> 20mm cannon
> >> > Leonard!
> >>
> >> I still say that's a LAG for BD troops. :-)
> >
> >No argument here :)
>
>
> Hey Jesse, where did you get the Barret?
>
> I bid you peace.
>
> Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
> ICQ # 8973001
> legate@futureone.com
>
> "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
> places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
> passes. Entil'zha Veni!"
>
> "I don't need Romance. I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
> USS Excaliber.
>
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3399
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