Subj: Traveller-digest V1999 #1418
Date: 12/1/99 2:02:44 AM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, December 1 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 1418
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Iridium-class Solar Yacht (GTL12) - corrected
Valkyrie-class Light Fighter (GTL9) - corrected
Valkyrie B-class Light Fighter (GTL9) - new
Re: early christian writings and roman rumors
Re: Goryo-class Medium Fighter (GTL9) - corrected
Re: Sci fi films
re: Police ranks
Re: Lost Kieth Supplements going for 101
Re: Police ranks
Re: early christian writings and roman rumors
Re: early christian writings and roman rumors
Irony
Percussive Maintenance
Re: Peer Review Problems (Re: Sci fi films)
Re: early christian writings and roman rumors
Re: Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Machinery (was Re: Sci fi films)
Re: Bifrost-class Solar Shuttle (GTL9)
Re: Police Career
Re: Iridium-class Solar Yacht (GTL12) - corrected
Re: Rule of man coin
Re: Low TL Medicines
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 23:11:26 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: Iridium-class Solar Yacht (GTL12) - corrected
A 'corrected' version of the Iridium. Whether sails like this are possible
is up for grabs. In particular, I doubt this thrust is available in the
specified sail size (360 sq mi). I'll reality-check the GS/3 rules tomorrow.
Iridium-class Solar Yacht (GTL12)
Crew: 1 bridge crew
3 OF, DR 100, Cockpit, 3 Light Sails
Statistics: EMass 73.7 tonnes, LMass 73.7 tonnes, Cost: 77.37 MCr, HP: 117,
Size Mod: +5
Performance: Accel: 3.0 G
Structure Spaces Mass Cost Area Crew
3-dton super-light hull, standard materials (3.0) 0.0 0.0 786
-
DR 100 bonded superdense armour - 1.4 0.1 - -
CCCI Spaces Mass Cost Area Crew
Cockpit 1.0 4.3 2.3 - 1-2
Engineering Spaces Mass Cost Area Crew
3 light sails (217.7 tonnes thrust) 1.5 68.0 75.0 - -
Other Modules Spaces Mass Cost Area Crew
Empty space 0.5 - - - -
Totals Spaces Mass Cost Area Crew
Empty 3.0 73.7 77.4 786 0
Fitted out 3.0 73.7 77.4 786 0
©Robert Prior, 1999. (Designed with GT Shipyard. © Robert Prior, 1999.)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 23:14:28 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: Valkyrie-class Light Fighter (GTL9) - corrected
A 'corrected' versionof the Valkyrie. As with the olther lightsail ships,
the congruence between GURPS rules and reality is up for grabs right now...
Valkyrie-class Light Fighter (GTL9)
Crew: 1 bridge crew, 1 gunner
3 OF, DR 100, 1 Triple 101 MJ Laser Turret, Basic Stealth, Basic Emission
Cloaking, Hardened Cockpit, 1 Light Sail
Weapon Type Acc Damage 1/2D Rng Max Rng RoF
101 MJ Rainbow Laser Imp 31 8d x 20 36,864 km 69,120 km
1/60
Statistics: EMass 64.4 tonnes, LMass 64.4 tonnes, Cost: 32.37 MCr, HP:
1,179, Size Mod: +5
Performance: Accel: 1.1 G
Structure Spaces Mass Cost Area Crew
3-dton medium hull, standard materials (3.0) 1.1 0.0 786 -
1 turret (DR 100) 1.0 6.6 0.1 800 -
DR 100 durasteel armour - 5.3 0.1 - -
Basic stealth - 0.4 0.1 - -
Basic emission cloaking - 0.4 0.1 - -
CCCI Spaces Mass Cost Area Crew
Cockpit with hardened controls 1.0 4.6 2.7 - 1-2
Engineering Spaces Mass Cost Area Crew
1 light sail (72.6 tonnes thrust) 0.5 22.7 25.0 - -
Weaponry Spaces Mass Cost Area Crew
1 triple 101 MJ laser turret (3.0) 23.5 4.3 - 1-1
Other Modules Spaces Mass Cost Area Crew
Empty space 0.5 - - - -
Totals Spaces Mass Cost Area Crew
Empty 3.0 64.4 32.4 1,586 0
Fitted out 3.0 64.4 32.4 1,586 0
©Robert Prior, 1999. (Designed with GT Shipyard. © Robert Prior, 1999.)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 23:14:11 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: Valkyrie B-class Light Fighter (GTL9) - new
When I fixed the Valjyrie I noticed that the acceleration is now quite low.
So I added a sail into the empty space. I figure this is an upgrade, for
circumstances where the extra speed is required.
Valkyrie B-class Light Fighter (GTL9)
Crew: 1 bridge crew, 1 gunner
3 OF, DR 100, 1 Triple 101 MJ Laser Turret, Basic Stealth, Basic Emission
Cloaking, Hardened Cockpit, 2 Light Sails
Weapon Type Acc Damage 1/2D Rng Max Rng RoF
101 MJ Rainbow Laser Imp 31 8d x 20 36,864 km 69,120 km
1/60
Statistics: EMass 87.1 tonnes, LMass 87.1 tonnes, Cost: 57.37 MCr, HP:
1,179, Size Mod: +5
Performance: Accel: 1.7 G
Structure Spaces Mass Cost Area Crew
3-dton medium hull, standard materials (3.0) 1.1 0.0 786 -
1 turret (DR 100) 1.0 6.6 0.1 800 -
DR 100 durasteel armour - 5.3 0.1 - -
Basic stealth - 0.4 0.1 - -
Basic emission cloaking - 0.4 0.1 - -
CCCI Spaces Mass Cost Area Crew
Cockpit with hardened controls 1.0 4.6 2.7 - 1-2
Engineering Spaces Mass Cost Area Crew
2 light sails (145.1 tonnes thrust) 1.0 45.3 50.0 - -
Weaponry Spaces Mass Cost Area Crew
1 triple 101 MJ laser turret (3.0) 23.5 4.3 - 1-1
Other Modules Spaces Mass Cost Area Crew
Totals Spaces Mass Cost Area Crew
Empty 3.0 87.1 57.4 1,586 0
Fitted out 3.0 87.1 57.4 1,586 0
©Robert Prior, 1999. (Designed with GT Shipyard. © Robert Prior, 1999.)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 23:35:53 -0500
From: "Swordy (Colin MIchael)"
Subject: Re: early christian writings and roman rumors
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Prior
> >Or "Surspised By Joy", by C.S. Lewis, a Sci-Fi writer and infamous
atheist.
>
> Atheist? C.S.Lewis, the man who wrote "The Screwtape Letters"?
The very same. Anyone read his Space Trilogy?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 20:50:44 -0800
From: "Bruce Macintosh"
Subject: Re: Goryo-class Medium Fighter (GTL9) - corrected
>Here is a 'corrected' version of the Goryo. Whether this is possible
>without a larger sail than specified in GS/3 is debatable. This fits the
>rules, but whether the rules fit reality...
A 1-G solar-sail powered craft that is only about 33% (by mass) sail?
Not even remotely plausible with any concievable technology; the formulae
(or your interpretation of them) must be messed up. Could you post the
exact formula from GS/3?
Bruce
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 23:54:32 -0600
From: "Clint Williams"
Subject: Re: Sci fi films
Peter Trevor wrote
>I've found lots of engineering PCs (and non-engineering PCs too)
>bash things as a first resort ... "Emergency Repair Procedure
>number 1" they call it. Just to keep them on their toes, next
>time they bash some misfunctioning piece of equipment: have
>something drop off!
I was once a DJ at an unbelievably small radio station, some of the
equipment required ERP #1 often. If that didn't work we knew we were in
trouble and needed a professional, not that we could afford one.
~Clint
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 19:19:43 +1300
From: pbroeder@wave.co.nz
Subject: re: Police ranks
I found this a while ago. It was posted on a Delta green archive as a
parody but it's probably useful for generating planetary police swat
teams....
yes, I should just post the link, but I've lost it. :)
Jonathan
SWAT Team Name Generator
(c)1999 by Keith J. Potter
QRT, ESU, GSS, HRT, ETC, etc etc--it seems like every police department
in the US wants their own special operations team, and in the
euphemistically-driven spirit of the times nobody wants to call it a
SWAT
team anymore. To that end, I offer the following to those Keepers who
find
their PC's in a strange city and suddenly forced to call forth police
assistance in the face of some Mythos threat... Why have the plain old
SWAT
team show up when you can, with just a few rolls of the dice, bring out
a
new and excitingly-named unit such as the Rapid Entry Group, the
Emergency
Tasking Division, or the Situational Equipment Squad!
Simply roll 1D10 on each of the following tables... For easy
variations,
simply juggle the word order, or roll more than once (or not at all) on
any
of the tables:
First Word:
1. Special
2. Emergency
3. Crisis
4. Quick
5. Rapid
6. Standby
7. Incident(al)
8. Department(al)
9. Situation(al)
10. Tactic(al)
Second Word:
1. Equipment
2. Management
3. Response
4. Reaction
5. Tasking
6. Support
7. Services
8. Entry
9. Duty
10. Rescue
Third Word:
1. Team
2. Unit
3. Squad
4. Troop
5. Division
6. Column
7. Crew
8. Force
9. Group
10. Posse
Gotta go now... The Tactical Rescue Posse just took the front door
off
its hinges...
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 00:20:23 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch"
Subject: Re: Lost Kieth Supplements going for 101
On 12/01/99 at 12:48 AM, "Boris Cibic" said:
>I am sure that it has been posted a hundred times but lets make 101.
>Could anyone tell me how to order the Lost Keith Supplements. Feel
>free to email back directly. kafka47@hotmail.com
>thanks
I can't give you a url, but Paul Sanders is on the list. His
address is
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 17:23:23 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Police ranks
Dear Folks -
Chris said:
>>"Commissioner of Police", since there is no monarch to receive a commission
>>from.
>
>Anyhow, we *do* have Commissioners here in America. In Gotham City there's
>Commissioner Gordon (he should be hitting retirement any day now).
Doh! I should be shot for forgetting him! I was just going off Jeff's comments,
and not actually *thinking*.
Wasn't "The Commish" set in the suburbs? Different jurisdiction from the city
beat? Jeff, help!?!
Oh well, just another example to prove that you can make cops IYTU as diverse as
you please...
Gleen said:
>Before we get too far into Yanks-and-Brits in Space,
>let's remember that law enforcement can occur under a
>large variety of paradigms.
[snip]
>To what extent can character
>generation give different flavors to these
>experiences?
Precisely my point! I said:
>Naturally, since local law enforcement _by definition_ is local, there is no
>problem for one world using the US notation, another using the UK notation,
>another using something completely different (eg. "commisars" or whatever).
(To be honest, I used Brit/Oz notation because Jeff's "Lieutenant" and "Captain"
was too US-based for me. Presumably the reverse is also true. ;-) I didn't have
time or inclination to create alternate naming systems, just creating the one
chargen system was hard enough!)
My suggestion is to use more than one generation system (if you're keen enough)
to create the various NPC police you may need in your campaign. At the same
time, another method you can use is to create NPCs from different branches, and
simply substitute an alternate rank table.
OK, so would people now like to come up with a few alternates for E1-E7 and
O1-O7?
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 22:26:36 -0800
From: "Kelly St.Clair"
Subject: Re: early christian writings and roman rumors
Robert Prior wrote:
>>Or "Surspised By Joy", by C.S. Lewis, a Sci-Fi writer and infamous atheist.
Various other people wrote:
> No he wasn't!
Sigh. Irony is dead.
I guess we DO need to start sprinkling smileys like periods.
- --------------
Kelly St.Clair "The Jigglypuff's trilling seems to have a
kellys@efn.org tranquilizing effect on the human nervous system.
Fortunately, I am... immune..."
-- Mr. Spock, THE TROUBLE WITH POKEMON
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 00:37:28 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch"
Subject: Re: early christian writings and roman rumors
On 12/01/99 at 11:59 AM, David Healey said:
>>Or "Surspised By Joy", by C.S. Lewis, a Sci-Fi writer and infamous atheist.
>One assumes you mean Wyndham Lewis, rather than the infamous
>Christian C.S. Lewis ? The series of "The Lion, et al", is
>considered by some to be an easy-read Bible.
Hum, well as I understand it, C. S. Lewis was an atheist as a young
man. Then well into adulthood, and after a long spiritual journey
he had a Christian conversion. I suppose you could say he became
something of an infamous Christian.
"Surprised By Joy" is C. S. Lewis' autobiography. Within it he
charts his spiritual journey, describing it as a search for joy.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 22:57:59 -0800
From: Richard Hough
Subject: Irony
> >Or "Surspised By Joy", by C.S. Lewis, a Sci-Fi writer and infamous atheist.
>
>Atheist? C.S.Lewis, the man who wrote "The Screwtape Letters"?
I suspect this is an example of irony; your key to quality writing.
- --
Richard Hough
rdhough@telus.net
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 02:52:16 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Percussive Maintenance
>> I've heard it called "percussive maintenance" -- not
>> in Traveller, but by real world engineers.
>
>Ah yes, the barbaric "Tap Test", a time-honored tradition among
>engineers, particularly *mechanical* engineers where the tap was
>generally administered with a nice heavy wrench. Eventually, passed on
>to the general public with the widespread use of consumer
>electronics.
>
>Okay, admit it...how many of you whack the TV/radio/etc with the palm
>of your hand to "encourage" the darn thing to work?
And here I was thinking of "Hit any key to continue."
GC
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 00:11:50 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude
Subject: Re: Peer Review Problems (Re: Sci fi films)
Keith Johnson wrote:
> The first time I saw Star Trek: the Next Generation, I thought they had a
> lounge instead of a bridge. The tactical station is a perfect location for
> a DJ, and I always thought that an ensign should walk in with some drinks
> for the well connected lounge lizards in the big chairs watching the wall
> sized tv screen.
That would explain Deanna Trois wardrobe by Slutware Inc.
> ObTrav: The Scout Service functions via peer review, and it (like all
> systems) has a potential for abuse. How many Scout ships/teams are turning
> a blind eye to the abuses of their fellow Scouts so that those others will
> turn a blind eye to their own abuses? Beyond the ISS Lounge Ship
> Enterprise, what about more serious violations? What if other scouts (the
> PCs) stumble on a group that is involved in grey market smuggling and
> discover that they can profit if they don't report them to their
> superiors? What if they discover that those superiors are the ones
> organizing the smuggling ring?
What? You mean all Scouts aren't Smugglers?
Shock.... Dismay.....
- --
Evyn...
Get six jolly cowboys to carry my coffin
Get six pretty maidens to bear up my pall
Bunches of roses all over my coffin
Roses to deaden the clods as they fall
Laredo
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 23:54:35 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: early christian writings and roman rumors
In mail you write:
> Robert Prior wrote:
>
>>>Or "Surspised By Joy", by C.S. Lewis, a Sci-Fi writer and infamous atheist.
>
> Various other people wrote:
>> No he wasn't!
>
> Sigh. Irony is dead.
>
> I guess we DO need to start sprinkling smileys like periods.
Well, you do have to remember that it had been a "serious" thread up
until then. And since *tone* can't come thru on a post, your only hope
other than a smiley would have been trying "empasis marks" which would
like have made it even worse.
So your choices are pretty much smileys or:
infamous atheist
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 00:03:17 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Machinery (was Re: Sci fi films)
In mail you write:
> Glenn Goffin wrote:
>
>> >> A semi-rational attitude. If you *need* the
>> >> equipment, it's not working, and you don't have
>> >> "proper" tools or instructions "bashing" it ...
>> >> *is* a reasonable response.
>
>> >I've found lots of engineering PCs (and non-
>> >engineering PCs too) bash things as a first resort
>> > ... "Emergency Repair Procedure number 1" they
>> >call it.
>
>> I've heard it called "percussive maintenance" -- not
>> in Traveller, but by real world engineers.
>
> Ah yes, the barbaric "Tap Test", a time-honored tradition among
> engineers, particularly *mechanical* engineers where the tap was
> generally administered with a nice heavy wrench. Eventually, passed on
> to the general public with the widespread use of consumer
> electronics.
>
> Okay, admit it...how many of you whack the TV/radio/etc with the palm
> of your hand to "encourage" the darn thing to work?
Never. But I owned one of the *infamous* Seagate ST-251 40 meg drives
with "stiction" for many years. Since I rarely turned the system off,
it wasn't much of a problem. But if I *did* turn it off, I had to
unbolt the drive and give it a quick, *hard* tist to break the heads
free. then quickly rebolt the drive and apply power.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 00:13:41 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Bifrost-class Solar Shuttle (GTL9)
In mail you write:
>>There's something *seriously* wrong here. Light sails, without laser
>>boosts or the like *can't* do even *1* g. 1/10th or even 1/100th g is
>>more like light sail performance. They are *not* high accel!
>
>>> 1 light sail (145.1 tonnes thrust) 0.5 22.7 25.0 - -
>>
>>And just how *big* is this sail? And what does *it* mass? I bet you
>>forgot to add the mass of the sail to the mass of the ship before
>>calculating acceleration.
>
> Then fire off a letter to SJG and get GURPS space errataed, because that's
> where I pulled the numbers from. Just a simple thrust/mass=acceleration
> calculation.
>
> I can see no reason why a light sail couldn't be a high-acceleration
> vessel, assuming that the sail was big enough. GS/3 doesn't give sizes, but
> I suppose you could do a backwards calculation from the thrust and average
> solar energy in earth orbit.
That's the point, it's *not* the solar energy, it's the solar *wind*.
> Looking at page 21 of "Starsailing" (by Freidman), I see that F=2P/c
> (force, power, speed of light). Given that F=ma, then we can derive a=2P/mc
> (acceleration, power, mass, speed of light)
>
> The mass of the yacht includes the mass of the sail (check the numbers).
> Dividing tons thrust by tons mass should give me the acceleration in
> gravities, right? (I usually work in Newtons and kilograms, not American
> units, so may well have made a mistake here.)
> In any case, we can calculate teh area of the sail because we know the
> force. 145.1 tonnes thrust is 145100 kg times 10 m/s/s (approx), thus
> 1451000 N. Rearranging the first equation about to get P = Fc/2, I get P =
> 1,451,000 x 300,000,000 / 2 = 2.2 x 10e14. The Square root of that is about
> 10e7, so the sail is a square 10000km along a side.
Right. now stop and consider this. 2.2e14 m^2 for sail area. If that
sail weighs a *miilgram* per square meter, that makes it mass 2.2e11
kg. or 2.2e8 *tons*. That sail with a 145.1 tonne thrust masses 220
*million* tonnes. 145.1/220e6 = 660 one-billionths of a g accel.
> According to GS/3, the sail is 240 square miles per space. I see that I
> forgot to multiply the thrust by 0.5 (for the half space) but GS/3 lists
> the thrust as 160 tons/space.
> I think we've found an errata in GS/3.
Major league. Alo note my figures above regarding the *mass* of the
sail as it relates to area.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 00:07:57 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Police Career
In mail you write:
>> Bomb Squad (Bomb & Explosive Ordnance Disposal)
>
> Munitions and Special Package Division. Also responsible for
> non-explosive devices of mass effect (e.g., poison gas emitters).
And nukes, as terrorists *will* be able to get them, given how "common"
the missile rules require them to be. :-)
Also, here's a lovely thought. Just imagaine what a bunch of terrorists
with a nuclear damper could do. Set it to speed up decay and aim it at
those nice granite government buildings.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 00:23:23 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Iridium-class Solar Yacht (GTL12) - corrected
In mail you write:
> A 'corrected' version of the Iridium. Whether sails like this are possible
> is up for grabs. In particular, I doubt this thrust is available in the
> specified sail size (360 sq mi). I'll reality-check the GS/3 rules tomorrow.
360 mi^2 = ~932 km^2
And it looks like your table makes the mass 68.0 (tonnes?).
Which gives the sails a mass of ~73 *micrograms*/m^2. Yeesh!
217.7 tonnes thrust?
That gives ~233 micrograms of thrust per m^2.
times 9.8 should give us Newtons. 2.29e-3 N/m^2
> Looking at page 21 of "Starsailing" (by Freidman), I see that F=2P/c
> (force, power, speed of light).
Therefore:
P=F*c/2
P= 2.29e-3*3.8/2
P= 343e3 W
That's 343 kW/m^2!
Sheesh! Solar flux at 1 AU is abou *1* kW/m^2
Well, we've found the error...
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 22:55:45 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Rule of man coin
On 30 Nov 99, at 6:26, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> When I was training for a job once, we were using citric acid in
> *bulk*. And since this was training, they were using the cheaper "large
> crystal" form. Instead of being like granulated sugar, this was lumps the
> size and shape of rock candy!
>
> Which led to a prank. Citric acid *is* very sour, but it's not going to
> hurt you to eat a crystal or two of it.
>
> So we offered some friens some rock candy (and popped a piece or two
> ourselves to allay their suspicions). If you are *expecting* this
> super-sour taste, it's no big deal. Thus we smiled away as we sucked on
> them. Our friends were expecting *sweet*...
My isiters and I used to pull a similar prank on our friends. My
parents have a fine assortment of citrus trees, including mandarins and
limes. One of the lime trees produces orange limes that are very
similar in appearance to a mandarin fruit (the only difference is a
point on the bottom of the lime). We'd mix a few limes in with the
mandarins when our freinds came round...
- --
Rupert Boleyn
Wellington, New Zealand
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 22:55:46 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Low TL Medicines
On 30 Nov 99, at 12:11, Glenn Goffin wrote:
> >Similarly, there has been a trend in antihistamines
> >toward compounds that are less likely to cause
> >drowsiness.
>
> Of course, you won't get drowsy at all if you don't
> take anti-histamines. Acupuncture, vitamin C, and
> water all help clear the sinuses with no side effects.
However this doesn't (unless your acupuncturist (?) is a whole lot
better than the one I tried) help much with hayfever. For that
antihistamines or, more recently, steriods are the way to go.
- --
Rupert Boleyn
Wellington, New Zealand
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1418
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From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)
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Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #1418
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