From:   IN%"traveller@engrg.uwo.ca" 22-MAY-1994 21:02:53.55
To:     IN%"traveller@engrg.uwo.ca"
CC:     
Subj:   TML biweekly: Msgs 7653-7667 V45#2

Return-path: <jamesp@engrg.uwo.ca>
Received: from engrg.uwo.ca (nova.engrg.uwo.ca) by delphi.com (PMDF V4.2-14
 #6563) id <01HCNJJDGJG091X0DU@delphi.com>; Sun, 22 May 1994 21:02:46 EDT
Date: Sun, 22 May 1994 21:00:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML biweekly: Msgs 7653-7667 V45#2
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Errors-to: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca
Reply-to: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Message-id: <9405230101.AA05717@engrg.uwo.ca>
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Sun May 22 21:00:02 EDT
 1994
Precedence: bulk

TML biweekly    Sun May 22 21:00:02 EDT 1994    Volume 45 : Issue 2

Today's topics:

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 609  7653 18-May-1994 Lise Charlebois  Subscribe << Am considering subscribing
 609  7654 19-May-1994 "KMCCARTHY"      Atmos. Pressure <<                     
 609  7655 19-May-1994 Thomas Potter    Virus Proff computers << Text item: Tex
 609  7656 19-May-1994 Roger Sanger     Is Glisten in the Regency in 1200? <<  
 610  7659 18-May-1994 Roger Sanger     Travellers' Digests FOR SALE <<  
 610  7660 19-May-1994 Roger Sanger     mixed signals... << Dear Whoevercares,
 610  7661 18-May-1994 Caffine Achieve  Guns and plastics << Fellow Sentients-
 610  7662 18-May-1994 Caffine Achieve  Naval Forces of the Regency. << Fellow 
 610  7663 18-May-1994 David Johnson    Admin: TML: A House Divided? 2 << Gentl
 610  7664 19-May-1994 Goldman of Chao  RE: CT/TNE List  << Susan M. Shock said
 610  7665 19-May-1994 Peter H. Brento  CT/MT vs. TNE list << Lets save bandwid
 610  7666 19-May-1994 Peter H. Brento  TNE : Mass Drivers << I asked this on t
 610  7667 19-May-1994 TML Administrat  Re: mixed signals...  << rodge@cyberspa
 610  7657 19-May-1994 Andy Lilly       Everything under the Sun, Apollo, PC, e
 610  7658 19-May-1994 Roger Sanger     TML Interest Survey Results: <<  

This is a passively moderated mailing list. All messages sent to the
submission address will be distributed. The biweekly digest is currently
distributed each Wednesday and Sunday at 9:00pm.

Submissions: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca -or- uunet!engrg.uwo.ca!traveller
Administrator: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (James Perkins)

The TML is made possible by facilities provided by the University of
Western Ontario. All opinions and materials below are the responsibility
of the originator.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Bundle: 609
Archive-Message-Number: 7653
Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 21:05:15 -0400
From: s479558@aix1.uottawa.CA (Lise Charlebois)
Subject: Subscribe

Am considering subscribing to the list.
How do I do this?

Lise Charlebois
s479558@aix1.uottawa.ca

------------------------------

Bundle: 609
Archive-Message-Number: 7654
Date: 19 May 1994 08:23:37 U
From: "KMCCARTHY" <KMCCARTHY@qmgate.osc.hq.nasa.gov>
Subject: Atmos. Pressure

                       Subject:                               Time:8:09 AM
  OFFICE MEMO          Atmos. Pressure                        Date:5/19/94
James T Perkins <jamesp@sp-eug.com> wrote:

>Humans are used to breathing area that is 80% N2, 20% O2. The air
>pressure they breathe it at is 14.7 lbs/in^2. The partial pressure of O2
>is about 0.20 * 14.7 lbs/in^2, or about 2.9 lbs/in^2. This is the
>theoretical minimum air pressure that humans can sustain while still
>being able to get adequate oxygen supply to their cells. The practical
>minimum air pressure, however, tends to be higher than this -- for one
>thing, altitude sickness may set in at this low a pressure (bodily
>fluids filling up the lungs). Also, pure O2 is only wise for short
>periods as it tends to oxidize the linings of one's lungs. 

A 1960's era Rand Corp. published study "Habitable Planets" covered this issue,
among others, in some detail.  It may be avaliable in large university
libraries, it was at my university.  It is recommended reading for anyone
interested in what type of planets humans could live on.  It has been over 5
years since I last checked it out and I can not recall any details but it
provides upper and lower limits of oxegen, atmos. pressure, temp etc.  

If anyone has easy access to a university library a short summary of its
conclusions would be beneficial to the mailing list.

Kevin Mc Carthy



------------------------------

Bundle: 609
Archive-Message-Number: 7655
Date: Thu, 19 May 94 09:18 EST
From: Thomas Potter <TPotter_+a_DYNAMAC-_+lThomas_Potter+r%Dynamac@mcimail.com>
Subject: Virus Proff computers




Text item: Text_1

     I have for the past year played a mixed game of T:2300ad and MT.
     Mainly allowing some of the 2300ad races and at least the stutter warp
     drive into the MT game.

       My question/suggestion is can the Pentipods (who are bio -
     technologist) create a 'biological' computer to run the new starships?
      In theroy it should be possible.  The qustion is: if one can be
     created how much volume would it consume and what amount life support
     will be required to maintain it?  Also at what point of complexity
     would the 'computer' become selfaware?  I figure without a cybiline
     interface the computer would be immune to the silicon virus.  I have
     not neen able to find anything in either 2300ad or FF&S to offer any
     clue as to how to design one of these units.  Any suggestions or ideas
     would be apprecated.


     Thomas Potter [Arlington, Va.]

        The thoughts expressed are my own.  In the event I am cought, my
     company will disavail any knowlage of me being able to think.


------------------------------

Bundle: 609
Archive-Message-Number: 7656
Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 01:19:09 -0700
From: rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger)
Subject: Is Glisten in the Regency in 1200?

 
 
 
            ASLAN INVASION OF REGENCY TERRITORY
 
 
I was looking over some UWP data of the Spinward Marches
recently, and many of the worlds I thought were part of the
Regency (Rebellion Era) were marked as being controlled by the
Aslan.
 
The data in the Imperial Encyclopedia reflects this.
 
One of the worlds was Glisten!
 
I wouldn't have expected an asteroid cluster with a population of
9 BILLION and a tech-level of 15, a naval base, a scout base,
major shipyards with large Imperial Naval contracts, and a
civilization based heavily on interplanetary transportation to
fall to any but the largest conceivable Aslan Fleet!  What
happened?
 
Was there a typo?
 
Does the errata clarify this?
 
A skim through TNS (Traveller News Service) entries failed to
clear this issue up.
 
So, Attention all Regency and Rebellion History buffs!
 
MY QUESTION IS THIS:
                                     ----
                               ---------------
                        ------------------------------
               ------------------------------------------------
      -----------------------------------------------------------------
      What worlds were taken over by the Aslan invasion, and then, what
               worlds were taken back by the Regency???????
      ------------------------------------------------------------------
               ------------------------------------------------
^B                        ------------------------------
                               ---------------
                                     ----
^B
 
 
Was Glisten ever recaptured?
 
Where are the most up-to-date system allegiance dispositions to be found?
 
Rodge.
 

------------------------------

Bundle: 610
Archive-Message-Number: 7659
Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 23:54:24 -0700
From: rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger)
Subject: Travellers' Digests FOR SALE

 
 
 
 
I still have spares of the following for sale:
 
    ==== Travellers' Digest #6         Digest Group Publications
 
    ==== Travellers' Digest #7         Digest Group Publications
 
    ==== Travellers' Digest #15        Digest Group Publications
 
    ==== Travellers' Digest #16        Digest Group Publications
 
    ==== Travellers' Digest #17        Digest Group Publications
 
    ==== Travellers' Digest #21        Digest Group Publications
 
    ==== MegaTraveller Journal #2      Digest Group Publications
 
 
Rodge.

------------------------------

Bundle: 610
Archive-Message-Number: 7660
Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 00:03:54 -0700
From: rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger)
Subject: mixed signals...



Dear Whoevercares,

What does "signal-to-noise ratio" mean, anyways?

rodge

------------------------------

Bundle: 610
Archive-Message-Number: 7661
Date: Wed, 18 May 94 23:23:24 PDT
From: Caffine Achiever! <fok@scf.usc.edu>
Subject: Guns and plastics

Fellow Sentients-

Here's another note that got munched by the hungery hungery Sunbane.

langsl@cbr.hhcs.gov.au writes:
>Subject: Misc. Questions

>All I need is the air that I breathe...
>- ---------------------------------------

>One of the hazards of space travel is going to be running out of breathable
>    air. When considering a particular 'scene' for a scenario I was
>    planning, I realised I had no good idea of how long it takes a person
>    to use up the available air in a sealed room. So, some questions for
>    the list.

>Imagine you are in a sealed room. How long does it take a person to die
>    because the air gets bad - and why? Is it lack of Oxygen, or the
>    presence of impurities?

Found this in my Mech Eng. Handbook so I ought to be accurate:

**** WARNING: MILDLY TECHNICAL DISCUSSION FOLLOWS!!! ****

A average person consumes 0.83 kg of oxygen and produce 1.00 kg of CO2 per day
for a give volume of air at 1 atmosphere and 25 degree C come to something
like this:
        7.776 * Volume in cubic meters = hours of Oxygen for 1 person

However I am unaware of the concentration of CO2 would be toxic to human in a
sealed enviroment so this would be a ultimate limitation.  Also these value 
are for someone who's awake so it can be increase if these folk were asleep or
resting.

>If the room is filled not with air, but with Oxygen only:
>- -   what atmospheric pressure should it be at to be safe? I believe that if
>    the pressure is too high the atmosphere promotes any sort of minor
>    spark into a serious fire/explosive hazard.
>- -   how long before a typical human unfortunate dies from bad air in this
>    scenario.

The best example of this would be the Apollo 1 tragedy.  The crew capsule at
that time used a pure oxygen supply which ultimate killed the crew when it
caught on fire(fuel was in the cabin material).  I would rate
the odds of a fire a MUCH greater risk then running out of O2.  Assume this
scenario is played out in the presence of operating device (electrical/optical
/or mechanical) I would try the following:

                To determine if a oxygen fire starts:
                        Average: Pressure in atmoshpere + modifiers

                        modifiers
                        +1 if mechanical device present
                        +1 if optical/electronic device present
                        +2 if High speed mechanical device present
                        +3 if High power electric device present
                        +5 if Anything sparks!

Determining on the nature of the material the fire could be a glowing amber
(low level of reactant or slow burning type) or an explodsion that engulfs the
entire room...  Makes for short adventures though....:(


>Some questions on firearms...
>- -------------------------------

> ..   At what tech level can you build guns out of non metallic materials?
> ..   What sort of non metallic materials are possible - plastics, carbon
>    fibre, or what?

The Glock series pistol and the Steyr series rifles are both examples of
existing guns with frame built of plastic.  However the receiver and barrel
are both made of traditional metallic materials.  So late TL-8 is when I would
expect them.

In order to make the barrel and receiver out of non metallic would be
diffcult.  What is need are high temperature, high strength, and high wear
resistant materials.  So far none of the non-metallic materials exibit all of
these qualities.  If the goal is to pass through airport type metal detector
then you could use metal composite made of non-ferrous (i.e. iron) materials.
Materials like Carbon Titanium composite is an example.  But don't expect to
see these until about TL-10

> ..   At what tech level can you build caseless ammo and weapons to use it?
>    And when does the result become as practical as weapons using cased
>    ammo?

In FF&S it states that any non-ETC rounds after TL-10 are caseless.  As to
when it becomes practical it depends on your definition of 'practical'.  If
the concern is 'cook-off' that pretty much been solved.  If the conern is
reloading you're out of luck.  In my campaign I allow players to make their
own ammunition (within reason as to type) if they possess a ammunition mould
and press set...think of it as an injection moulding machine for ammunitions.
However it's a ship mounted device...definitely not man-portable.

Also as a side note: use of caseless ammo allows receivers to be designed
without the normal ejection cycle...thus allow a potentially higher cyclic
rate of fire.


------------------------------

Bundle: 610
Archive-Message-Number: 7662
Date: Wed, 18 May 94 23:05:34 PDT
From: Caffine Achiever! <fok@scf.usc.edu>
Subject: Naval Forces of the Regency.

Fellow Sentient-

Well my earlier submission apparently got eaten up by Sunbane, so
hheeeerrrreee we go again!

djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson) writes:
Subject: Shall Not Perish 16 - Regency Navy

[Regency Fleet list omitted...along w/some other stuff]

Just a few comments on the list...

Looking back at my MT map of the Spinward Marches.  Isn't all of Glisten
subsector within the area of Aslan Conquest?  Not to mention about a quarter
of Trin's Veil Subsector (spin-rim ward)?  Assuming the conquest area
would narrow as it reached deeper into Imperial territory, I dare to
assume that Pax Rulin, Gazulin, Sindal, and Tobia would've been overran as
well.  (Also see Imperial map in Survival Margin, pg 98)

I would suggest that the 100th, 201 to 204th fleet be either deleted
(persumed destoryed during the invasion) or reconsolidated into a new
fleet due to heavy losses. (probably incorporated into the most senior
of the five fleets)  I don't know if 'displaced' is such a good description
of what happened to fleets from conqured areas.  It seem unlikely that
these fleets would withdraw and let their keep be overrunned unless they've
taken significant losses.

However, If the Aslan Ihati and the Regency are at peace in the New Era,
these fleets could be re-established with Aslan Ships.

Also about 1/2 to 2/3 of Aramis Subsector was overrun by the Vargr
Invasions.  I would imagine the 214th also took a beating before this was
allowed to happen.  If the terrority was not retaken by the time of the
New Era the 214th would probably still exist but expect it to have shiny new
TL-16 ships and performing quite aggressive patrols along the frontiers.

The 193rd fleet would be tasked with the job of keeping the Swordworlders
in line (punitive strikes/aggressive patrols/showing the Regency banner).

Given the proximity of 43rd fleet to the area of the Aslan conquest, I
would expect the 18th (Lanth) fleet be re-delopyed to help cover that
subsector's border with the Swordworlds.

Considering the central location of the 73rd (Mora) and 23rd (Rhylanor)
Fleets, these would probably be the original core of the Patro.  Expect
to find large number of high jump performance battle squadrons here.

The same would go for the Deneb Fleets.  I don't have a map of the Sector
so I'll leave it to other to ponder their fates.  However the Reft fleets
are probably gone.  Dulinor wouldn't let go of 188 perfectly good fighting
ships so nearby.

- -Ed

p.s. Great listing.

p.p.s. BTW I beleive the Deneb 212th (Lamas) should be 213th.  Still 
conflict with the Regina fleet though.

------------------------------

Bundle: 610
Archive-Message-Number: 7663
Date: Wed, 18 May 94 22:25:26 CDT
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: Admin: TML: A House Divided? 2

Gentlesophonts:

I'm reading a *whole* lot more on the TML about `to split or not split'
than I am any of those mythical gigabytes of pre-TNE creativty that's
supposed to be holed-up out there on the 'Net somewhere and it's getting
awfully tiresome.

Talk about a `low-signal-to-noise ratio'!  How about a pre-TML-split list?

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA

P.S. Note my subject header.

P.P.S.  It's clear there have been some recent technical difficulties with
  the TML daemon.  I've yet to receive Msgs 7592-7624 (Vol. 74, #8) from
  Tuesday night.  Since the ftp site is also down, will someone who did get
  this bundle please send me a copy?  Thanks.

P.P.P.S. Ooops!  Now I'll probably get 150 copies!  :-)  How's this?  Will
  someone who's last name begins with "J" please send me a copy?  Thanks.

------------------------------

Bundle: 610
Archive-Message-Number: 7664
Subject: RE: CT/TNE List 
Date: Thu, 19 May 94 9:34:27 CDT
From: goldman@orac.cray.com (Goldman of Chaos -- postmaster CRI-US)
Reply-To: goldman@orac.cray.com

Susan M. Shock said the following:
> I don't see any inherent reason why the "oldsters" had to leave the mailing
> list just because they didn'tlike TNE. 

Signal to noise ratio.  TNE != Traveller.  The game systems are very
different.  The flavor of the games is really different.  If I wanted
realism, I'd join the army.  I'll stop ranting now.

> I'm willing to completely drop the subject under the following condition:

>       No more insulting remarks made about either TNE nor the people who
> play it. You can say "I really don't like TNE" rather than "TNE bites and so
> do you".

This seems to be a common problem with large groups.  Look at the
Classic Trek vs. Next Generation vs. DS-9 fights.  Look at the 
DS-9 vs.  Babylon-5 fights.  Look at the rec.games.mecha vs. the
sci.military folks fight on the B-5 newsgroup.  Most of the fights 
are silly. 

I will admit that the rec.games.mecha vs. the sci.military folks fight
is fun to watch.  The giant robot fans are basing their arguments on
game rules while the sci.military folks are talking about real world
experiences.  Weird.  Catch it on the Babylon-5 newsgroup.

>   I'd really prefer to get back to talking about Traveller. I'd rather not
> see the list split, not because I'm afraid of losing my "audience" but because
> I really do enjoy the diversity of subject matter and opinion that a larger
> list allows for.

I'd like to see the list split.  That way if I have a busy day I can
save the TNE postings for another time.  Also then I can discuss the
old adventures without someone bringing up the GDW-virus.

Matt

- -- 
Matthew Goldman  E-mail: goldman@orac.cray.com Work: (612) 683-3061

My day today? Nothing major, just Xenon base gone, Scorpio gone, 
Tarrant dead, Tarrant alive and then I found out Blake sold us out.

------------------------------

Bundle: 610
Archive-Message-Number: 7665
Date: Thu, 19 May 94 09:46:25 CDT
From: Peter H. Brenton <pete@biochem.uchicago.edu>
Subject: CT/MT vs. TNE list


Lets save bandwidth, shall we?

1.) I support the est. of a seperate CT/MT list

2.) I will continue to sub both lists.

3.) Those now departed aren't the ONLY ones who can design vehicles!  Perhaps
more of us should take a hand in that activity.

4.) Right now my biggest "signal-to-noise" problem puts CT/MT vs. TNE
discussions squarely in the "noise" category.

Thank you for your attention, we now return to your regularly scheduled
mailing list.

Pete


------------------------------

Bundle: 610
Archive-Message-Number: 7666
Date: Thu, 19 May 94 09:46:56 CDT
From: Peter H. Brenton <pete@biochem.uchicago.edu>
Subject: TNE : Mass Drivers

I asked this on the GDW-Beta list without success, 

Has anyone found a "fix" for the Mass Driver design sequence in FF&S?
I cannot come up with reasonable results using the design sequence as is. 
I have my own fix, but I would like to see someone else's since I am far 
from a ballistics expert!

Of course, I have not yet resorted to the "fix" of going back to MT/CT.

BTW, My copy of errata for FF&S shows no correction to this section.  Does
someone else have other errata with that section fixed?

Thanks,

Pete


------------------------------

Bundle: 610
Archive-Message-Number: 7667
Subject: Re: mixed signals... 
Reply-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Administrator)
From: TML Administrator <traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca>
Date: Thu, 19 May 94 08:07:03 PDT


rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger) writes:
> What does "signal-to-noise ratio" mean, anyways?

"When used in reference to Usenet activity, 'signal-to-noise ratio'
describes the relation between amount of actual information in a
discussion, compared to their quantity. More often than not, there's
substantial activity in a newsgroup, but a very small number of those
articles actually contain anything useful."

        -Brendan P. Kehoe, _Zen & the Art of Internet, A Beginner's
        Guide to the Internet_, January 1992, p. 88.

James

__   __/         /   /      Internet Traveller Mailing List, Administrator
    /     /  /  /   /      James T. Perkins in Eugene, Oregon, USA
 __/   __/__/__/ _____/   traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca

------------------------------

Bundle: 610
Archive-Message-Number: 7657
Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 10:39:40 +0100
From: A.S.Lilly@bnr.co.uk (Andy Lilly)
Subject: Everything under the Sun, Apollo, PC, etc.

Hi all,

[ WARNING: IMPERIAL VIRUS HAS INVADED SUNBANE!]
Well, seems like it anyway :-)
This didn't seem to get through first time, so I'm resending. Thanks to 
Pierre (609/7649) - yes, a currency-killing virus would be devastating. I'm 
sure I've heard this one before, I'll have to see where from... a book? TML? 
Anyone know?

GREEN VIRUS

I'd just like to explore a 'green' virus (601/7543) a little further. Thanks
to Steve for his input (602/7555), I'd like to ask the following (of him and
TML as a whole):

> First, viruses tend to be *very* species specific.

My biology knowledge (at the limit) tends to zero, so I can't argue, merely
propose:
a) I used the word virus. Would any virulent form of bacteria or other
organism be more suitable as a biological warefare agent?
b) The virus could afford to be specific if it targeted the correct victim.
There might be a suitable common factor among most worlds (type or species of
livestock, crop type, human type, etc.) that would allow it to hit all worlds
hard. If not, perhaps this might explain why some worlds have survived better.
Surely some 'agent' which affected humanoids in a generic manner (e.g.
respiratory) would affect all the human species and could still be quite
lethal to Aslan and Vargr. Perhaps the Hivers don't use the same blood
oxygenation techniques that our bodies rely on. Perhaps (like Asian flu), the
virus (oops, used that word again), can cross between apparently dissimilar
species in certain cases?

> Second, if it destroyed the ecosystems of planets, the Imperial core would
> be essentially rendered uninhabitable, especially if the "virus" was
> persistent in nature.

The species-specificity probably prevents total annhilation of an ecosystem.
Assuming the 'agent' was intended as a biological weapon (rather than some
strange disease that dropped off a passing asteroid or was sent by the
ZHhhasjycgerh from a nearby hostile galaxy), the makers would not have
intended to wipe out an entire planet's flora and fauna as this would make the
world useless to them (assuming they were intending to take control of it).
On the same lines, the 'agent' would be reasonably short lived (weeks to
months) once active, otherwise the planet would again be unusable by the
'conqueror'? Of course, if the Hivers sent it, or somehow had a hand in it, 
perhaps they already have the neutralising agent and are just watching 
everyone else squirm?

> Third, unlike the computer virus, direct physical contact would be required
> to spread the virus. Fourth the rate of spread would either be slow enough
> to save outliers (like, say, the Solomani Confederation),...

Even if the 'agent' were spread by contact, it ought to be able to cover the
majority of the Imperium eventually - after all, most worlds are contacted by
starships. On major traffic routes with several hundred or thousand ships a
day passing through, landing, etc. the chances of contamination ought to be
high. If the 'agent' can be airborne, or can stick to the outside of a ship
(somehow surviving atmospheric entry, vacuum of space, solar radiation, etc.)
or anything along these lines then it could still spread widely. Of course,
if the incubation (or inactive) period of the 'agent' is too short then it
would start showing up before it had spread very far. Perhaps this was
intentional - find a potentially hostile planet, sow the seeds, leave planet
innocently and then a year later when the war has started the inhabitants
wonder why their crops/livestock/etc. have all just died.
With regard to the Solomani (and Zhodani, Aslan, Vargr, et al), I'm not sure
how bad they've been hit anyway [FACT ALERT: I don't have TNE!] and it would
only require one trader to smuggle his goods (and hence the 'agent') across
the border to a source who then carries the goods to an A-class starport,
providing a central distribution point for the 'agent' to all the surrounding
worlds.
An airborne 'green' virus certainly doesn't require physical contact to the
degree that the computer virus does (even if it were spread by data networks
and radio links).

> It might be possible to work up a plausible scenario of some sort,...

I'm trying:
a) just out of interest (knowing little about such warfare methods),
b) in case any TNE virus-haters find this more useful than the computer virus,
c) in case I can use this 'agent' on a smaller scale in other games (hell, I
ain't even had the Rebellion yet!).
The GDW virus has already taken some direct hits in all the flak that's been
thrown at it. It's still flying, because it's the official version, but I
think it's probably less plausible than a 'green' virus, especially when it
appears that some people are wondering if the computer virus is psionic, in
order to explain it's methods of contaminating low tech computers, etc.!

> ... but it would be substantially different in form than the TNE scenario.

Why? My initial thoughts were that an 'agent' would be designed to mostly
knock-out a planet (killing crops, livestock or people) without destroying its
useful factors (flora, fauna, natural resources, man-made structures). Once
discovered it could be defeated (eventually) but progress would be gradual and
even once a counter-agent were discovered, it would be difficult to distribute
to every world affected. In those areas where the 'agent' had died out
(possibly intentionally, possibly due to over-gorging itself on the available
victims - a bit like yeast dies off in brewing), people would get together
pretty quickly and set up quarantine areas. These would have to be big
because, just like the computer virus, a single infected ship or person could
bring back the virus.

Right, I've lit the fuse, let's see what pretty colours the fireworks are. Any
CONSTRUCTIVE replies (direct or to TML) would be much appreciated. I'm not
interested in long arguments on why a 'green' virus wouldn't work. Instead
replies of the "this factor would be a problem... but perhaps the virus was
engineered to get around it like this..." would be much more useful.

SHIELA-X (601/7539) - Thanks Pete. I know some players who'd love to 
play/meet her.

L'OEUL D'DIEU (601/7538) - My French knowledge is as extensive as my 
Biology. If this is God's Eye (or something) where's the Mote? Thanks Steve, 
another set of data to add to my collection.

EARTH COLONIES (603/7566, 7567) - More useful background (I don't play 
anywhere near the Solomani but the organisations, etc. will still appear in 
my games near the Spinward Marches). Keep it coming, Dave.

DEEP SPACE STATIONS - Nice discussion, especially 602/7554 and 603/7565 
(err, lost the name and Steve again, respectively). Just where does every 
tenth supply ship go after it leaves the Naval depot? It seems to jump in 
the wrong direction for any of the known naval bases... ah! Just imagine the 
embarrassment finding Zhodani naval bases in 'empty' sectors of the Spinward 
Marches, Imperial bases in the middle of the Solomani Rim, etc.

REGENCY SOURCEBOOK - Just wish I had TNE and could contribute in some 
manner. Oh well... What we need is another mailing list, say tml_beta? :-)

AND THE LATEST BIWEEKLY MAILING
Looks like lots of other messages got lost as well as mine.

BLASTER - Yummy

DEEP SPACE STATIONS - Keep talking guys

LONGBOW - Interstellar psi networks - old hat. My 3I campaign uses them 
between all Imperial subsector capitals, especially those in threatened or 
rebellious areas. Of course, the populace don't know this and it's pain of 
death to let the news leak out. Since I play a Scout Corp special agent 
(with my colleagues posing as Imperial counts and countesses) we 
occasionally are allowed to use the psi post service if we need urgent 
direct contact with the central intelligence office of the Emperor (who 
hasn't been killed yet!).

AIR AND BREATHING - Gasp... splutter... I knew I should have checked that 
air pressure gauge on my vacc suit oxygen tank!

EARTH COLONIES NEWS - Keep it coming Dave

AEROI - Remind me from whence the Aeroi originated? Was it a JTAS or are you 
the originators?

DAKAAR - Ship plans! Ship plans! What's on sunbane at the moment (rather 
than me having to search for it), what's going to be on there and do we have 
a standard drawing format yet? GIF?

NPCS - Thanks Tariq.

HIWG - Roger Myhre - can you give us details when you get the HIWG stuff on 
sunbane, so we know where to look? Thanks

ENOUGH WAFFLE

Signing off,

Andy
Commander Lilly, PITS (Political Intelligence Team, Scout)
Nothing I say or do in any way reflects the views of my very kind and
generous employers.


------------------------------

Bundle: 610
Archive-Message-Number: 7658
Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 01:14:10 -0700
From: rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger)
Subject: TML Interest Survey Results:

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
              TML INTERESTS -- WHO PLAYS WHAT?
 
THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF DISCUSSION LATELY ABOUT AESTHETICS ON THE
TML, TIMIDITY INHIBITING POSTING DUE TO DOUBT ABOUT TML'ERS
INTERESTS, AND WHETHER OR NOT THERE WAS MUCH INTEREST ANYMORE
AMONGST TML'ERS IN THE CLASSIC AND REBELLION ERAS.
 
LETS CLEAR THIS UP ONCE AND FOR ALL...
 
The overwhelming response to my For Sale notices for Classic and
MegaTraveller spares indicates a high level of interest in
pre-TNE eras.
 
As for my own pushing of TNE, it might interest you to know that...
 
I have yet to begin playing TNE because I'm determined to play
all the way through the first two eras before I do.  I do however
have a deep facination with TNE, and since my gaming group has
been on haitus for the past month-and-a-half or so, I've been
posting a lot concerning the Regency circa 1200.  Well, as
circumstances would have it, (Seattlelites, take note) my gaming
sessions shall be starting up again this coming Saturday, so the
slant of my messages shall probably be returning to the Classic
Era very soon.
 
How soon we forget...
 
NOT VERY LONG AGO, BACK IN JANUARY, GUY GARNET (aka DEREK
WILDSTAR) DID A SURVEY OF TML'ERS TO SEE WHO WAS RUNNING WHAT
KIND OF CAMPAIGN (CT, MT, TNE), AND WHAT RULESETS THEY WERE
USING.  OVER 40 TRAVELLER REFEREES RESPONDED.
 
BELOW IS TML BUN 541 / MSG 6734, WHICH INCLUDES GARY'S SURVEY
RESULTS AND CONCLUSIONS.  I THINK YOU WILL FIND IT MOST
INTERESTING...
 
====================================================================
====================BUN 541 / MESSAGE #6734=========================
=====================WHO PLAYS WHAT? SURVEY=========================
==============By Gary Garnet / aka Derek Wildstar===================
=======================January 31st, 1994===========================
====================================================================
 
A (relatively) recent discussion on TML got me thinking about campaigns.
What do Traveller players and referees currently play?  So I asked that
TMLers who are currently in a campaign (as either players or referees) to
send me some e-mail saying which rules and what campaign background you are
using.
 
I got a total of 42 responses, describing 52 campaigns (two people were
involved in three campaigns at once, and six were involved in two campaigns
at once).  Several people described campaigns which had just ended (finished
and unlikeley to continue) or ones that they *would* run if an opportunity
presented itself - I didn't count either of these cases.
 
I can draw some interesting observations from the results.  First of all, 42
responses is a statistically significant sample of the TML population.
While I have no way of knowing if the sample is random or not (the sample
is those people who responded to my survey), there is also no reason to
believe that it is *not* representative of the TML as a whole.
 
I'm on more shaky ground when I try to extrapolate the results on TML to the
game-buying population as a whole.  I would suggest that TML is representative
of the older segment of the game market (college students and young adults),
while it virtually ignores the younger segment of the market (high-school-age
buyers).
 
 
SUMMARY:
 
The envelope, please:
 
The rule set with the most campaigns is _TRAVELLER: THE NEW ERA, with 50% of
the vote, and more than twice the number of the closest runner-up.
 
The background with the most campaigns is CLASSIC THIRD IMPERIUM, with 48%
of the vote, and slighly less than twice the number of the closest runner-up.
 
 
RULES:
 
    Rank    Title               Percent
 
    #1  Traveller: The New Era      50%
    #2  MegaTraveller               21%
    #3  "Classic" Traveller         19%
    #4  2300AD                       6%
    #5  GURPS                        4%
 
I was suprised to see MegaTraveller get more votes than Classic Traveller,
although the result is quite close (one vote!).  From TML traffic, I would
have expected it to score significantly higher.
 
 
CAMPAIGNS:
 
    Rank    Era or Background       Percent (*)
 
    #1  "Classic" Third Imperium      48%
    #2  "New Era" Campaigns           27%
    #3  Rebellion                     12%
    #4  Other                         10%
    #5  2300AD                         4%
 
(*) Does not sum to 100% due to rounding.
 
This result was suprising, particularly in light of the above.  I would have
expected that the New Era campaign background would have been more popular
with New Era purchasers, but only a small majority (54%) of those who use
T:TNE play in the official T:TNE universe.
 
 
RAW DATA COUNTS:
 
Responses:  42
Campaigns:  52
                         ----- Campaign Settings ------------
 
                       3rd   Rebel   New   Other   2300   TOTAL
Rules Used            Imper          Era            AD
 
Classic Traveller        9     --     --      1     --     10
MegaTraveller            6      3     --      2     --     11
Traveller: The New Era   9      3     14     --     --     26
GURPS                    1     --     --     --      1      2
2300AD                  --     --     --      2      1      3
 
TOTALS                  25      6     14      5      2     52
 
What's interesting here is the depth of support for the "Classic" Third
Imperium.  No matter which rules set you are talking about, it seems that
there is a significant percentage of those people playing in a 3rd Imperial
background.  It would be interesting to compare sales to date of T:TNE with
total sales of Classic Traveller and MegaTraveller, I wonder if it
correlates with the numbers of campaigns currently being played?
 
 
CONCLUSIONS:
 
I note that the largest single segment of the Traveller campaign "space" is
the T:TNE rules and the "official" Post-Collapse background.  But this
is internally fractured, and (for example) RCES or Star Viking materials may
be of limited utility to people who are running a Pocket Empire or Regency
campaign.  These "New Era" campaigns also represent slightly less than 27%
of the Traveller campaigns currently being played.  While there's no larger
single rules/setting combination, there should be a way to reach a broader
part of the Traveller players.
 
If it were up to me, I'd certainly put some effort into a "Classic" Third
Imperium campaign supplement.  Potentially, such a supplement could be
impetus to cause new sales of the T:TNE rules, be "converting" people who at
present see no advantage to changing rules systems.
 
Again, IMHO (In My Humble Opinion) there's not a whole lot of point to the
other segments of the market.  There's no effective way to write for the
"other" segment - FF&S comes about as close as you can get to targetting this
population with it's alternative technology rules.  The Rebellion represents
a small market (11.5%), and in addition, "Third Imperium" materials may
still be useful in a Rebellion-era campaign.
 
The numbers for 2300AD may not be reliable.  TML is composed primarliy of
Traveller players, and discussion doesn't usually apply very well to 2300AD
topics; therefore the game and it's background may be significantly
under-represented in the survey.
 
 
NOTES:
 
"Traveller: The New Era" includes two rule sets: Traveller: The New Era and
Deluxe Traveller: The New Era (referred to elsewhere as T:TNE and DT:TNE,
respectively).
 
"MegaTraveller" is just that.
 
"Classic Traveller" is a number of rules sets and options: Traveller (the
original boxed set, Books 1-3), Deluxe Traveller, The Traveller Book, and
Starter Traveller.  Any or all of these rules, in combination with Books
4-8, Striker, and/or the DGP Task System (described extensively in The
Travellers' Digest prior to the publication of MegaTraveller) - these all
were aggregated under "Classic" Traveller, because they were effectively the
same game.
 
"2300AD" includes Traveller: 2300 and the revised edition, 2300AD.  No
respondents reported that they are using the original (Traveller: 2300)
edition.
 
"GURPS" is, of course, a Steve Jackson Games product; it was included
because I have heard considerable anecdotal evidence that it is a popular
choice for people who don't consider Traveller a viable game system, but
want to continue playing in a Traveller-like setting.  It is aparrently not
as popuar as word of mouth would have it.
 
The definitions of the campaign backgrounds are or course more subjective.
In general, I went with whatever label the respondent chose for his or her
campaign.  In a few cases it was a tough call, but I put the response in the
category that seemed to fit best.
 
"Classic Third Imperium" campaigns are those set in or around the
Pre-Rebellion Third Imperium.  Some referees indicated that they may implement
the Rebellion in their campaigns.  Just like hypothetical or future campaigns,
I categorized campaigns based on what is happening *now*, and not on
future plans which may or may not be realized.
 
"New Era Campaigns" are those set in a Post-Crash universe, whether it be
the official RCES and Star Viking setting, or referee-developed Pocket
Empire, Free Trader or even Regency campaigns.  I would like to provide a
breakdown of the different types, but in many cases there isn't enough
detail in the responses to say for sure which category is applicable.
 
"Rebellion" campaigns are those set anywhere in Imperial space in any time
after the assasination of Strephon to the Crash.
 
"Other" campaigns are those in original referee-generated universes, or
universes modified beyond recognition.
 
"2300AD" campaigns are those that use the Traveller: 2300 or 2300AD campaign
settings.  There don't seem to be many of these around anymore.
 
 
If anyone has additional questions about this, send me some E-mail and I
will be happy to answer questions about this survey.
 
 
Guy Garnett
 
wildstar@quark.qrc.com
- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In the Far Future
 
============================================================================
===========================END OF MESSAGE #6734============================
============================================================================
 
So you see, there still is a lot of interest in the Classic and
Rebellion Eras.  Unless these refs have all changed over in the
past 4 months.  Confirmations, anyone?
 
I hope I've helped to distinguish all doubt.
 
As for what guidelines there are for discussion on the TML, the
only restriction in TML's charter is that it be at least vaguely
related to Traveller!
 
Don't be timid, don't be shy.  Get your favorite subjects
flowing!  Whether it be CT, MT, or TNE, for that's what the TML
is all about:  "Traveller, in all of its forms."
 
The mouse that roared,
Rodge.

------------------------------

End of TML Biweekly
******************
