Traveller-digest     Monday, September 27 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1133



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: TML Traveller Roster, 2nd pass
Re: Shipper vs Mudder salaries
Re: One question answered, another asked, and an insult given
Re: Traveller Player Roster
Shipboard vs. Groundbound salaries
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1125
Re: Traveller Player Roster
Re: TML Roster
Re: Plant and Animal Builder raw data (longish, gearhead warning)
Re: Update to TML Roster
Re: TML Roster
Re: Correction to _Andrew Young_ USP
Re: One question answered, another asked...
Re: Non-Solomani Religions
Player handouts? Anyone use them?
Traveller Player Roster; XML for Traveller Data
Re: Player handouts? Anyone use them?
RE: Traveller Player Roster; XML for Traveller Data
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1131
Subject: Re: Traveller Player Roster
Re: Pyramid Question
RE: TML Traveller Roster
Re: software data formats
Re: Bayonet
Re: Limit of planetary authority (Was: Income tax for PCs)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:38:16 -0700
From: "Brian A. Howard" <bruadh@iname.com>
Subject: Re: TML Traveller Roster, 2nd pass

At 12:30 PM 09/27/1999 -0700, David wrote:
>     Toronto, Ont, CA(Canada)
>
>
> >>Boris J. Cibic, Toronto, CA, kafka47@hotmail.com
> >
> >
> >Please, pardon my ignorance, but where is Toronto, California?



  Yes, I intentionally made myself look like a complete idiot :-)

My point being that I was confused but the province for Boris has been 
omitted, I wanted to bring attention to it. Thank you, David for replying 
so quickly.

Sincerely,

Brian A. Howard

Beware the sound of a Babel fish,
For a Vogon constructor fleet cannot be far behind.

http://home.earthlink.net/~bruadh/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:51:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: Shipper vs Mudder salaries

> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:42:12 -0700 (PDT)
> From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@aracnet.com>
> 
> You've OBVIOUSLY never lived and worked onboard a ship.  That free room
> and board might sound great, but they don't make up for the problems of
> living onboard.  This is true now with ocean going vessels, and I expect
> it's also true with Starships. 

Note that also as with current ocean-going ships, there will be a wide
range of living and working conditions encountered.  Being chief steward
aboard an Oberlindes luxury liner is likely to be more physically pleasant
(though perhaps no less stressful) than serving as the only engineer
aboard a balky, obsolete tramp freighter with perpetually malfunctioning
life support and two crew cabins converted into spare cargo space.

> Of course there are those who love shipboard life and wouldn't want to
> live dirtside.  I suspect that catagory makes up a lot of the
> independants and that they would make less, as they're running marginal
> anyway.  The huge corporate starships probably pay a greater sum than
> their dirtside equivalents. 

I would imagine that a good fraction (pehaps a majority in some markets)
of tramp merchants have most or all crew members as members of a
partnership or corporation, working for a share in the profits.  People
wanting security will gravitate to salaried positions with the established
lines.  People wanting a chance to get rich -- or who don't fit in with
corporate life -- work the tramps.

You might even find that an experienced crewperson working on short-term
salaried contracts for a variety of tramps would be a bit suspect among
the tramp culture.  "Why can't/won't she join a partnership?  Who kicked
her out?" 

Interestingly, this has a parallel in my own current real-life employment. 
Software engineers wanting security work for banks or phone companies or
other established businesses.  Those of us out for glory go with new media
outfits or internet startups or the like, and work partly for stock
options which likely will never have any real value -- but if they ever
*do*, we get to retire right then.  And we calmly deal with the fact that
we will likely have to change jobs involuntarily every 2-3 years as the
industry chews up and spits out a third of the existing companies every
year (I imagine tramp companies have a similar failure rate).

- -- 
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      "There it is; take it."  - William Mulholland

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:03:33 -0500
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortelnetworks.com>
Subject: Re: One question answered, another asked, and an insult given

His Excellency, the Most Honourable and Esteemed Reverend
Moo See Dung, First Citizen and Prime Servant to the Glorious People's
Republic of New Colchis, to the Quaint Folks of the Serendip Outback:

Greetings and peace to your fine estate.

We have observed your ships' comings and goings-about along
the newly liberated state of Elysee, who even now rejoice to be
free from the looming shadow of the Combine, and embrace the
joy of the Glorious People's Paradise.

We would like to know if your below-mentioned tea is open to
all participating states in the Islands Cluster?  For it is quite rude
to throw a party without inviting your neighbors.

> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 20:05:04 -0700
> From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
> Subject: Re: One question answered, another asked...
>
> ...
> >per man carried.  The design is quite capable of kicking the snot out of an
> >SDB squadron by itself. However, for any serious invasion, she'd need full
>
> Dear degenerate scum of Joyeuse:
>   Have you considered exporting your mind-altering chemicals to the 3I -
> they certainly need something to help them ignore what passes for their
> civilization!
>
>   To paraphrase one of the great tracts of Terran political philosophy,
> "War is Peace", but only in a closed system where absolute military
> efficiency is no longer relevant.
>
>   That is, if you think that a star-kow with no armour can whack anything
> (let alone an SDB built by true technocratic fasc^h^h real men) resembling
> a warship then you're welcome to drop by for tea.
>
>         Yours, etc.,
>                 The Serendip Combine

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:20:47 PDT
From: "Erick ..." <siniypiva@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Player Roster

   Erick Graff, Chico, California, USA

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:36:02 -0500
From: "Lyle Youngblood" <lyley@gte.net>
Subject: Shipboard vs. Groundbound salaries

    A small amount of hazard pay is a legitimate requirement and a
good amount of hardship pay as well, but I still don't see these two
items doing anymore than bringing shipboard pay up to the equal
of ground-based salaries, if that.
    IMTU, the ship continues to provide residence and meals for the
crew even in port (except for the two weeks of annual maintenance 
and/or any major damage repairs).  Most crewmembers in port 
WILL frequently dine and possibly even live off-ship, especially if
you're in port for an extended time, but that is by choice and for
entertainment and taste reasons.
    The provision of room and board, IMO, should be around a 50%
decrease in salary.  Hazard pay of 10% (the risk isn't normally THAT
great) and hardship pay of 30% would still leave a 10% loss. YMMV.
    And no, I've never lived aboard ship, but after 21 years in the U.S.
military I've lived more than once under conditions that the U.S.
courts have said constitute "cruel and unusual punishment" for a 
convicted felon, but are perfectly acceptable for volunteers...grin.
So I do have SOME idea whereof I speak.

                                             Lyle

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:52:20 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1125

Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:07:27 EDT, Sethkimmel@aol.com
><< (When I moved out to SF, I thought referring to it as "the city" was
> a local conceit, much as people in NYC have the illusion that people
> outside of NYC refer to it as "the city".  But then I heard people in
> San Jose Referring to SF that way.  It is the only place (NYC included)
> that I've heard referred to as "the city" in _another_ city :-). >>

>Not true. Most suburbs in Northern New Jersey and in New York State, refer to
>NYC as the city...

But, unlike suburbs, San Jose really is a city in it own right
(albeit one who's proximity to SF gives it a bit of an identity
crisis :-)
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:07:43 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: Traveller Player Roster

Jeff Peterson, Barksdale AFB, LA, USA, j_pete@bellsouth.net
================================================================================
- - Pete                                                      j_pete@bellsouth.net

"To be prepared for war is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace."
                                                    -George Washington

Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833

- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GCS d- s:+: a- C+++ UH++$ P-- L+ E-- W++ N++ o-- K- w++++(---)$
!O M-- V- PS-- PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X+ R+ tv+ b+++ DI++ D++
G e+ h--- r+++ y+++
- ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

NOG #74   Nova 700

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:33:30 -0700
From: "James W. Brewer" <jwbrewer@ucsd.edu>
Subject: Re: TML Roster

Jim Brewer, San Diego California, USA, jwbrewer@ucsd.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:33:09 -0700
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com>
Subject: Re: Plant and Animal Builder raw data (longish, gearhead warning)

> Some way of graphically depicting the plants generated would be great,
> if that didn't blow out time and coding constraints.

That would be great, but seems like a serious task. Perhaps some use of
fractals?  A clip art object library? If it could be done, that would be
very nice.
////////////////////////////////////////
Akella 0609 C654474-6 S kk+ hi++ as+ va+ dr+ da+ so@ zh- vi++  A523
IMTU tc++ ?t4 ru@ 3i+(-) c+ jt au@ st- ls+ pi+ ta@ he+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:50:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Update to TML Roster

>At 02:44 PM 9/26/99 -0500, you wrote:
>>On 09/25/99 at 12:09 PM,  "Joseph R. Dietrich"
>>What's the list's opinion, am I worrying about nothing?
>>Would a
>>poison pill in the addresses be "good enough" protection?
>
>	I'm already on enough spam lists ... the folks at the FTC, IRS, and
>US Postal Service are probably ruing the day I found out about their
>spam reporting addresses (for general, "get rich quick," and pyramid
>or chain letter [==felony] respectively).

Which are...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:47:30 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: TML Roster

On Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:33:30 -0700, "James W. Brewer"
<jwbrewer@ucsd.edu> wrote:

>Jim Brewer, San Diego California, USA, jwbrewer@ucsd.edu
>
The comedian?


================================================================================
- - Pete                                                      j_pete@bellsouth.net

"To be prepared for war is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace."
                                                    -George Washington

Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833

- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GCS d- s:+: a- C+++ UH++$ P-- L+ E-- W++ N++ o-- K- w++++(---)$
!O M-- V- PS-- PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X+ R+ tv+ b+++ DI++ D++
G e+ h--- r+++ y+++
- ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

NOG #74   Nova 700

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:49:19 -0500 (CDT)
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Correction to _Andrew Young_ USP

Michel Vaillancourt wrote:

> >  There are reasons why Rider-Tenders don't themselves carry spinal mounts;
> >why not dump the big gun and put ~5000 Dt into fighters or gunships?
>
>         Mostly because against a real 10-20dkton SDB, 3 1dkton gunships are
> not going to do anything except get flared.  The CPAWs is 3000dtons, BTW,
> but there is a thousand tons of powerplant and another dkton in fuel to
> support it.  Still...  a pair of 2500dton gunships aren't all that useful.
>        If she gets herself into a situation that 12 meson bays and a USP T
> CPAWs can't solve in one or two salvoes, I'd suggest she needed escorts.  As
> I commented originally, while she can hold her own to outright trash a small
> SDB group, anything serious and she really ought to have three times her
> tonnage in dedicated Naval support.

Well, I admit I'm biased here.  But given her light armor and agility, I'd
think you'd be better off stripping the extraneous weapons and putting her
in the reserve behind an real cruiser or two.  Then you can launch and 
recover landing craft from the safety of the reserve and let the cruisers
take the beating.  Steve's gunboats and fighters could be used to escort 
landing craft and provide ortillery support, if they were added -- or as
an alternative, they could be used in place of the cruisers as a screen
themselves (although fighter casualties might get pretty severe).

Even with her PAWS-T, I'd expect a "real 10 to 20 kton SDB" to thrash the
_Andrew Young_ pretty badly; it probably would have a pretty serious PAWS
or meson gun of its own, and defenses to match.

  -- Steve Bonneville

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:10:11 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: One question answered, another asked...

 Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com> writes:
>Yeah! TL 12 laser-equipped grav-belt using battledress! Guarded by a guy
>named LEROY! DON'T TAKE MY PRESSSSIOUSSSSSSSSS....
>PRESSSSICIOUSSSSSSS BATTLEDRESSSSSSSS...
>
>*slap to the face*

ROFLOL! I can just see it.

Dom knows wisdom of Ancients - 'Do not drink whilst reading the TML unless
your keynoard has splashguards'.

>Seriously, I think there's a M:0 adventure with this as the plot. I think
>it's also a total dungeon crawl, so you may want to see it just so you know
>what to avoid doing, unless you like dungeon crawls.

There's a really good collection of Traveller Dungeon Crawls in 'The
Annillilik Run' by IG. Butchered from the original concept.

Dom

- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
                       MiB - Marines in Battledress
   "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:00:10 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Non-Solomani Religions

Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net> wrote:
>I am not the one who did the extension to the URP's.
>I believe that it was Peter Brenton.

<memories flood back>

I suppose it was 50% there... <g>

Your work was on 101 Lifeforms IIRC?

Dom

- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
                       MiB - Marines in Battledress
   "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:56:52 +0100
From: "Derrick Jones" <dojones.whitestar@btinternet.com>
Subject: Player handouts? Anyone use them?

Fellow Travellers

The request about system writeups got me thinking. Does anyone
else write up periodic news articles (sort of TNS, but local) for their
players to read before, during and after an adventure?  I tried it a few
times, and I  must admit that the players really appreciated it. There
were a few plot related atricles, a few totally non related, and some
'dunnos'. I think it added a little colour to the game, and most of it was
taken from my local newspaper, scanned in, and manipulated slightly.

Does anyone else regularly do this? Would you be willing to share 
the generic stories with other list members? Obviously not plagiarising
your local press like I did, but the outlines if nothing else?

Comments?


Derrick

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:06:19 -0500
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortelnetworks.com>
Subject: Traveller Player Roster; XML for Traveller Data

Traveller Player Roster: My group (David, you'll have to post yourself!)

Robert Eaglestone, Plano, TX
Val Dauterive, Plano, TX
Fred Vogel, Plano, TX


XML

Don't ask me to parse XML (compiler construction classes are
fuzzy in my memory); however, creating XML documents is
fun and easy.  Sticking to a standard format for the data might
take more doing (no matter what encoding we use).

My XML proposal, then, is to format data in this way.  Suggestions
are welcome (as if anyone's going to bother pawing through this
data in the first place!).


<character name="Sir Crai Belden" rules="CT">
   <born date="123-1100" world="Alpha" sector="S1" hex="0102" />
   <stat name="strength" value="10">
      <rolledValue value="8"        />
      <improved age="24" value="9"  />
      <improved age="28" value="10" />
      <improved age="30" value="11" />
      <ageRoll age="34"  value="10" />
   </stat>
   <stat name="dexterity" value="10"      />
   <stat name="endurance" value="10"      />
   <stat name="intelligence" value="10"   />
   <stat name="education" value="10"      />
   <stat name="socialStanding" value="10" />
   <stat name="psionics" value="10"       />
   <skill name="brawling"  level="2" />
   <skill name="diplomacy" level="2" />
   <skill name="pilot"     level="0" />
   <item  name="scimitar" />
   <cash value="100000" />
</character>



<starSystem name="Alpha" sector="S1" hex="0102">
   <ownedBy>Imperium</ownedBy>
   <rules>CT</rules>
   <xBoatLinkFrom name="Beta"  sector="S1" hex="0101" />
   <xBoatBranchTo name="Gamma" sector="S1" hex="0103" />
   <xBoatBranchTo name="Delta" sector="S1" hex="0201" />
   <primaryStar>
      <type>K4 VI</type>
      <orbit number="1">
         <name>Oino</name>
         <type>mainworld</type>
         <meanOrbitalDistance>0.3</meanOrbitalDistance>
         <diameter>4000km</diameter>
         <atmosphere>Thin</atmosphere>
         <hydrographics>45</hydrographics>
         <population>450000</population>
         <government>Despotism</government>
         <law>Restrictive</law>
         <starport rules="CT">
            <type>C</type>
         </starport>
      </orbit>
      <orbit number="2">
         <name>Duwo</name>
         <type>world</type>
         <meanOrbitalDistance>0.6</meanOrbitalDistance>
         <diameter>2000km</diameter>
         <atmosphere>Vacuum</atmosphere>
         <hydrographics>0</hydrographics>
         <population>10</population>
      </orbit>
      <orbit number="3">
         <name>Trei</name>
         <type>gas giant</type>
         <meanOrbitalDistance>1.2</meanOrbitalDistance>
         <diameter>300000km</diameter>
         <highport>
            <fuelService>
               <dtons>100000</dtons>
               <pricePerDTon>1000</pricePerDton>
            </fuelService>
         </highport>
      </orbit>
   </primaryStar>
</starSystem>



<vehicle type="starship" rules="CT">
   <name>Marleener</name>
   <displacement>200</displacement>
   <jump>2</jump>
   <maneuver>2</maneuver>
   <powerPlant>2</powerPlant>
   <passengers>
      <high>8</high>
      <low>4</low>
   </passengers>
   <turret number="1">
      <weapon>laser</weapon>
      <weapon>missile</weapon>
      <weapon>sand</weapon>
   </turret>
   <fuel>
      <displacement>48</displacement>
   </fuel>
   <cargo>
      <displacement>56</displacement>
   </cargo>
</vehicle>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:15:11 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@GLJA.com>
Subject: Re: Player handouts? Anyone use them?

Derrick Jones wrote:
> 
> Fellow Travellers
> 
> The request about system writeups got me thinking. Does anyone
> else write up periodic news articles (sort of TNS, but local) for their
> players to read before, during and after an adventure?  I tried it a few
> times, and I  must admit that the players really appreciated it. There
> were a few plot related atricles, a few totally non related, and some
> 'dunnos'. I think it added a little colour to the game, and most of it was
> taken from my local newspaper, scanned in, and manipulated slightly.
> 

Yep. I have a whole pile of them. I've even gone to the trouble of calculating
the time it takes for the news release to get from where it was issued to where
the characters are, so that the players get a feel for how slow communication
is.

IMTU, it's roughly 202-1107, and the players have *just* found out about the
Zhodani invasion that starts the Fifth Frontier War.

- -- 
Erwin Fritz
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:18:19 -0700
From: Mark Ayers <Mark.Ayers@PREMERA.com>
Subject: RE: Traveller Player Roster; XML for Traveller Data

"Don't ask me to parse XML ..."
"<character name="Sir Crai Belden" rules="CT"> ..."

Your XML is a start but still looks rough. Especially the character example.
If we want to use XML we need to make it clean.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 08:31:34 +1000
From: dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1131

>TV series -> Toronto
>Finance -> London
>Good living -> San Fransisco

Sydney Australia is generally refered to as 'Town', ie "Just going into
Town for a movie".

Even though we have a city size bigger than Greater London. Chalk one up
for culteral cringe.

ObTrav: A Daughter colony has a "Thing" about it parent planet, even though
the parent has changed its external polacies and the daughter is a vibrant
planet on its own right.

Darryl

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:49:22 -0400
From: Scott Davis <thorinn@mediaone.net>
Subject: Subject: Re: Traveller Player Roster

Scott Davis Southfield, MI USA  thorinn@mediaone.net

Scott --

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:59:12 -0500
From: Charles R Hensley <hensley.cr@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Pyramid Question

>> Robert Prior wrote:
>> >
>> > It looks like the Echiste article I submitted in March has
vanished,
>> > so I'll have to resubmit. Scott thinks he probably rejected it (on
>> > the grounds that it's not in the slushpile or the accepted pile)
but
>> > he can't remember.
>> >
>> > So, a question for the community:
>> >
>> > Would you like to see detailed worlds published in Pyramid? I'm
>> > talking about a full-length article detailing the entire system (as

>> > per First In) with text writeups on culture, government, trade,
>> > ecology, and so forth, as well as a number of adventure hooks.

I don't subscribe to Pyramid, but publish it any way you can. If I don't
get to use it maybe my GM will.

"Bont" wrote:
>If you weren't so humble, I'd shoot you!! Of Course!!!  I would love
>some of those!  Adventure are nice, but when the Players say, "I
>want to read the paper.  What's going in Congress?"  ... well, I
>usually have to scramble.  Having a basic understanding of the
>things you mention would be a nice thing.

Oh come now, we don't give you that hard a time  ; )

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:43:02 -0500
From: Mark A Nordstrand <markn@visi.com>
Subject: RE: TML Traveller Roster

Mark A. Nordstrand, Eagan, MN, markn@visi.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 23:26:13 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: software data formats

In mail you write:

> When it comes to choosing an extensable language to base it on I
> would think that it might be easier to use XML on a microsoft
> operating system than for other operating systems to find a way to
> access the proprietary microsoft INI format.

What "proprietary"? The INI format (which is also used by OS/2) is a
relatively *simple* TEXT format. 

[section header]
tag=value

You search for the section headers you recognize, and in those
sections, you process the tags you recognize.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 23:31:14 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Bayonet

In mail you write:

>>What about you ex-mil types out there. Did Bayonet drill get the juices
>>flowing? Was the ARRGGHHH as important as the dummy thrust?
>
> I would expect the bayonet to be a viable weapon as long as there are long
> weapons stout enough to support it's use.  Having said that, I would expect
> to see bayonets used by troops in security/crowd control situations.
> Possibly Marines on perimeter duty, but mostly soldiers in Combat Armor, not
> Battle Dress, against lightly armed civilian/irregulars. It's much more
> effective to break up a crowd using fixed bayonets than to fire into the
> crowd with gauss guns. Fewer casualties and better press.
>
> "Lieutenant, clear the square."
> "Yes sir! Sergeant--"
> "Fix Bayonets! By rank forward--"
> And the crowd pushed back, the sweating sophont mass fleeing the wall of
> glinting steel blades.

One of the scarier scenes in military SF was in one of Pournelle's
Falkenberg's Legion stories. They've got thousands of people trapped in
a stadium (would-be revolutionaries). 

And they start firing vollety after volley into the crowd. Brrr.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 23:43:20 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Limit of planetary authority (Was: Income tax for PCs)

In mail you write:

> I think the term "atmospheric boundary" is  a  "slogan"  term  as
> atmospheres don't have boundaries but fizzle out (IIRC traces  of
> Earth's atmosphere have been detected on the moon, and very faint
> traces of Venus atmosphere are blown back by the solar wind  like
> a comet tail that stretches out  to  Earth's  orbit!).  I  prefer
> using "suborbital" as the boundary line for each world  or  major
> satellite (this gets around the problem with vacuum worlds), with
> standard approaches to/from starports also being  Imperium-owned,
> or goverened by local treaties.  There is nothing to say  that  a
> planetary government's jurisdiction has to be contiguous (IIRC in
> the Solomani Rim some mainworlds are owned by  other  mainworlds)
> ... so I see no problem with colony worlds.
>
> The only problems with this model are asteroid belts and  orbital
> habitats.  And they are  not  problems,  just  not  catered  for.
> Possibly, in these  cases  there  is  N  kilometer  distance  for
> planetary jurisdiction (where N is based in object size).

I suspect that "N kilometers" is likely the rule. Or "N diameters". By
analogy with national boundaries, where the old rule amounted to "as
far as shore batteries could reliably fire".

I can see arguments for various distances based on weapons range, and
on the 10 & 100 diameter jump limits. Or purely arbitrary ranges.

I don't think most worlds would care to have any sort of "close"
satellite (say out .5 light sec) be considered outside their
jurisdiction. Makes for far too many military and smuggling problems.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1133
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