			    TRAVELLER Digest 464

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) What came after the Rebellion? by Drake Gearhart <gearhart@ukanaix.cc.ukans.edu>
  2) Re: TRAVELLER digest 462 by aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
  3) RE: What came after the Rebellion?  by That Computer Guy <darkstar@UDel.Edu>
  4) Re: Dark TNE by Wes Payne <n9548326@honeydew.cc.wwu.edu>
  5) Re: Fortuity class light fighter by Wes Payne <n9548326@honeydew.cc.wwu.edu>
  6) Re: What came after the Rebellion? by "Brendan O'Donovan" <Brendan@odonovan.demon.co.uk>
  7) Re: Fortuity class light fighter by merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
  8) Twilight:2000 prices by Bri <bri@teleport.com>
  9) Re: What came after the Rebellion? by Drake Gearhart <gearhart@ukanaix.cc.ukans.edu>
 10) Laser Power limit. by "Upton, Django" <DUpton@vtrnntov.telecom.com.au>
 11) Re: TRAVELLER digest 462 by shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
 12) Particle Accelerators by "Frances A. McLaughlin" <wwnfam@pipeline.com>
 13) Laser Power Limits Oops! by "Upton, Django" <DUpton@vtrnntov.telecom.com.au>
 14) Ship sizes by ROWAN Iain <wm0iro@acresearch.sunderland.ac.uk>
 15) Re: DGP by PPUGLIESE@pimacc.pima.edu
 16) Sensor stuff by merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 13:05:17 -0500 (CDT)
From: Drake Gearhart <gearhart@ukanaix.cc.ukans.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: What came after the Rebellion?
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91.951026125712.84332A-100000@ukanaix.cc.ukans.edu>

    Well it's that time again.  Another new list member to update.  Short 
  and sweet, here is my query.  I play Megatraveller circa 1118 in Gushmege 
  Sector.  I noticed on the Traveller Website something called NEW ERA or 
  something like that.  Without making it a spoiler as to what happens 
  after 1120, what updates have come to Megatraveller since the 
  Rebellion series?.  I have not seen any product on the shelves since 
  1993 and thought Megatraveller was discontinued by GDW.  Obviously and
  happily (for my group) I was wrong.  What is going on?  What is FF&S?  
  I've also noticed something about "RICE paper".  What is new in the 
  world of Traveller?  
						Thanks,

 					Tyre Jessix
 					Captain of the VESVE CELENE
 					T-Class Patrol Cruiser SM/GL AG-13867
  	 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 95 18:15 GMT
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Cc: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 462
Message-ID: <memo.955982@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <9510251728.AA21788@Rt66.com>


How often are the digests posted? I got three today!

Little FF&S query: why are laser sights so big/heavy/expensive? I've got
a catalogue here that includes a TL8 laser pointer the size of a pen, with
a range of 20m+, that costs £40 ($60+). There are others, less than twice
the price, that'll reach 100m+. How would you design one (the laser rules
are for *pulse* lasers, not beam) - just have a really big ROF?

---===---
Andrew Boulton

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 14:40:05 -0400
From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@UDel.Edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: RE: What came after the Rebellion? 
Message-ID: <199510261840.OAA29275@chopin.udel.edu>

In Reply to Your Message of Thu, 26 Oct 1995 14: 09:10 EDT
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 14:40:05 -0400
From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@chopin.udel.edu>

:     Well it's that time again.  Another new list member to update.  Short 
:   and sweet, here is my query.  I play Megatraveller circa 1118 in Gushmege 
:   Sector.  I noticed on the Traveller Website something called NEW ERA or 
:   something like that.  Without making it a spoiler as to what happens 
:   after 1120, what updates have come to Megatraveller since the 
:   Rebellion series?.  I have not seen any product on the shelves since 
:   1993 and thought Megatraveller was discontinued by GDW.  Obviously and
:   happily (for my group) I was wrong.  What is going on?  What is FF&S?  
:   I've also noticed something about "RICE paper".  What is new in the 
:   world of Traveller?  

What's new int thwo world of Traveller?  Oh my, you really have been out
of the loop?  Hmm, I'm trying to think of a way to say things without
ruining things for you.  Okay, that's not going to work.

You haven't heard anything about Traveller: The New Era?

       --Jerry (*shocked*)

8) Jerry Alexandratos                %  "Nothing inhabits my    (8 
8) darkstar@strauss.udel.edu         %   thoughts, and oblivion (8
8) darkstar@canary.pearson.udel.edu  %   drives my desires."    (8

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 13:32:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Wes Payne <n9548326@honeydew.cc.wwu.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Dark TNE
Message-ID: <Pine.ULT.3.91.951026132900.5073C-100000@honeydew.cc.wwu.edu>


Thus spake Christopher Giffen (Christopher_Giffen@dmcwave.com):

[previous commentary snipped]

> That's what I meant but "comparatively," Wes.  CT was a bright shining 
> universe for the most part, filled with subtlety as opposed to the 
> hyperbole of throwing the entire Imperium in the toilet.
> 
> Yeah, the Civil War was hopeless.  I think "Hard Times" communicated that 
> better than anything else.  I ran that adventure in '91.  I only wish GDW 
> saw fit to make the players' efforts worth _something_.  The achievement of 
> the adventure, helping to secure the Khavle Accordment pocket empire, was 
> all for naught.  Practically the whole area is listed with zero-level 
> populations in TNE.  <Sigh.>

Kinda makes me glad that my MT campaign was run in the Domain of Deneb.  
Must've been due to some subconscious yearning to turn back the clock...

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wes Payne, known to you as:  n9548326@cc.wwu.edu
Western Washington University -- Bellingham, WA -- The Great Northwet!  
"What is FUN?  Why is it usually colored BRIGHT PINK, and where does
 it go when JESSE HELMS comes around?" 
----------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 13:38:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Wes Payne <n9548326@honeydew.cc.wwu.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Fortuity class light fighter
Message-ID: <Pine.ULT.3.91.951026133401.5073D-100000@honeydew.cc.wwu.edu>


Thus spake Brendan O'Donovan (Brendan@odonovan.demon.co.uk):

> History
> -------
> The design was commissioned in the Regency in 1190 after the discovery that the 
> designer of the Cuspid gunboat had accepted massive bribes from particle 
> accelerator manufacturers. The Fortuity-class mounts a laser capable of 
> inflicting critical hits on ships where the Cuspid's particle accelerator would 
> be blocked by armour. In particular, this allows the deployment of the design 
> against virally infected close escorts and patrol cruisers from the wilds. In 
> addition, the high penetration performance allows the fighters some success in 
> engaging larger vessels.

Of course, such a perspective ignores the other benefit of PA armament -- 
induced radiation/EMP effects.  PAWS are good for frying a target's 
non-shielded (non-fiber-optic) electronic systems.  I hope that someone 
who has a copy of BL handy might look up the exact effects since mine 
isn't nearby.  Still, I reject the argument that PAWS armament is good 
for nothing except rewarding bribery.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wes Payne, known to you as:  n9548326@cc.wwu.edu
Western Washington University -- Bellingham, WA -- The Great Northwet!  
"What is FUN?  Why is it usually colored BRIGHT PINK, and where does
 it go when JESSE HELMS comes around?" 
----------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 20:54:43 GMT
From: "Brendan O'Donovan" <Brendan@odonovan.demon.co.uk>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: What came after the Rebellion?
Message-ID: <114@odonovan.demon.co.uk>

Drake Gearhart wrote :
>     Well it's that time again.  Another new list member to update.  Short 
>   and sweet, here is my query.  I play Megatraveller circa 1118 in Gushmege 
>   Sector.  I noticed on the Traveller Website something called NEW ERA or 
>   something like that.  Without making it a spoiler as to what happens 
>   after 1120, what updates have come to Megatraveller since the 
>   Rebellion series?.  I have not seen any product on the shelves since 
>   1993 and thought Megatraveller was discontinued by GDW.  Obviously and
>   happily (for my group) I was wrong.  What is going on?  What is FF&S?  
>   I've also noticed something about "RICE paper".  What is new in the 
>   world of Traveller?  
> 						Thanks,
> 
>  					Tyre Jessix
>  					Captain of the VESVE CELENE
>  					T-Class Patrol Cruiser SM/GL AG-13867
>   	 
> 
Without making it a spoiler? Hm. Well I can give you some pointers
1/Don't make any major investments in real estate in asteroid belts.
2/..or grav cities.
3/..or worlds with inhospitable atmospheres
4/..or worlds with naval bases
5/..or with any big starports
6/Don't expect your faction to win the rebellion.

Seriously, you should read:
1/Hard Times - end of Megatraveller
2/Survival Margin - collected history of the Rebellion
3/Traveller:The New Era - replacement for MT
(the first two could be harder to find)
Traveller:The New Era is not just an extension of Megatraveller, it is an 
entirely new system. The New Era is set around 1200 imperial.

FFS is 'Fusion, Fire and Steel', one of the key books in the new system. If you 
think that the ship building rules in the Referee's Manual for MT are 
reasonable, then you'll be very impressed with FFS. However, despite GDW's 
claims, it isn't really any easier to use. Still it does cover planes, ground 
vehicles, grav vehicles, personal armour, cybernetics, spacecraft, guns and 
lasers (but no robots or wet naval ships).

-- 
Brendan 


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 16:05:51 -0600 (MDT)
From: merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Fortuity class light fighter
Message-ID: <9510262205.AA19297@Rt66.com>

 
 
> Of course, such a perspective ignores the other benefit of PA armament -- 
> induced radiation/EMP effects.  PAWS are good for frying a target's 
> non-shielded (non-fiber-optic) electronic systems.  I hope that someone 
> who has a copy of BL handy might look up the exact effects since mine 
> isn't nearby.  Still, I reject the argument that PAWS armament is good 
> for nothing except rewarding bribery.

Sorry, but I laughed when I read that, because that was a great way to
rationalize the PAW on that fighter (a good solution---kinda like
justifying a high pop world with a nasty atmosphere :-)

My reasons for agreeing that the PAW is silly?

1.  It is a wimpy PAW (70, right?).  

2.  Because of 1, its only use is for radiation effects, but only civies
will have non Fb computers (that or penny-wise, pound foolish designs).

3.  It's a spinal mount, so if you play straight BL, it'll rarely be
pointed at a target.

4.  If the mass/volume was filled with a trainable non-grav focused xray
laser it'd do about the same damage, but it would have a penetration of
1/20something.  The laser armed ship (otherwise the same) in a one on
one will win every time.  The laser will hit at a real range for one.

Now if its stated purpose is cracking small craft that make a point of
placing themselves in the hexrow directly ahead, then it might have a
use, but why not do a few critical hits instead of resetting the guys
computers?

I have to say that I liked the idea of it when I saw it, but not once I
thought about it (from a rules standpoint).  Small PAWs have very little
usefulness as I see it (unless you're a pirate and want to damage
sensors, etc on the surface).

-Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 17:31:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bri <bri@teleport.com>
To: tml <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Twilight:2000 prices
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.951026172950.21389A-100000@linda.teleport.com>

 I was wondering, seeing as how T2K is compliant with the GDW-House 
system, what would be their appropiate TNE prices?
 It would be nice, seeing as how that's alot of vehicles they have in 
there, but the prices are *way* off from what they would normalley 
be(Because of mitigating circumstances, ala nuclear war ;)

bri


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 19:51:40 -0500 (CDT)
From: Drake Gearhart <gearhart@ukanaix.cc.ukans.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: What came after the Rebellion?
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91.951026194817.61836A-100000@ukanaix.cc.ukans.edu>

On Thu, 26 Oct 1995, Brendan O'Donovan wrote:

> Seriously, you should read:
> 1/Hard Times - end of Megatraveller
> 2/Survival Margin - collected history of the Rebellion
> 3/Traveller:The New Era - replacement for MT
> FFS is 'Fusion, Fire and Steel', one of the key books in the new system. If you 

  Are these sci-fi paperbacks or game resources?  Does GDW have a website 
for mail-order, pricing, etc?  Why haven't I seen them at the game stores 
or at Borders?

						Tyre Jessix

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Oct 95 14:26:00 EST
From: "Upton, Django" <DUpton@vtrnntov.telecom.com.au>
To: hiwg-list <hiwg-list@fwe.com>, tml <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Laser Power limit.
Message-ID: <30917AA7@msmailv0.telecom.com.au>


I've got a different idea to the TL*50 power limit.

Try 250MW input power per square metre of FA surface area MAXIMUM.

This can be justified by technobabble along the lines of "micro-distortions 
in the FA at relatively low power levels causing beam distortion and heat 
build-up".

Note that this removes a particularly arbitrary looking self imposed limit, 
means that really powerful lasers mass/vol etc increase with the cube of the 
power rather than the square, deals with the HPG problem to some degree and 
makes non-grav focussed lasers worth a really good look.

Django.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Oct 95 23:08:28 PDT
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 462
Message-ID: <TwekDD6w165w@krypton.rain.com>

That Computer Guy <darkstar@UDel.Edu> writes:

 > Am I misreading this or what.  Now the rules state that arms mass in
 > kilograms, 20 times their weight in liters.  This is 100 times as
 > heavy as any form of suspension and their transmission.  Should this
 > rule be 20 times their weight in kiloliters?  This would bring it
 > back in line with the other peripherals.

Well, someone else already pointed out your math error. But I have to
comment that GDW has obviously screwed up again. The above basicly
states that arm have a density of 20 kg/l. It just so happens that this
reduces to 20 g/cm^3. 

This makes the arms slightly denser than gold (19.3) and slightly less
dense than platinum (21?). There are only a couple of elements denser
than platinum, and they aren't much denser.

So GDW's figures are insane. Again, nobody did any sanity checking.
Consider that if the arms are going to flex, some of the space they
occupy *has* to be empty. So that lowers the density. Plus, you want
alloys with a high styrength to weight ratio, so, again the density
goes down.

I'd accept 10. But 5 is more like it. For reference, iron, steel and
copper are all around 8, titanium is 4, aluminum is 2, lead is 11, and
mercury is 13.6. 

*Why* can't anybody at GDW do simple math?

Leonard Erickson	           leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com
(aka Shadow)			    shadow@krypton.rain.com (preferred)
FIDO:   1:105/51	  Leonard.Erickson@f51.n105.z1.fidonet.org 


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 21:35:58 -0400
From: "Frances A. McLaughlin" <wwnfam@pipeline.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Particle Accelerators
Message-ID: <199510270135.VAA23384@pipe3.nyc.pipeline.com>

I was running through the design sequence for Particle Accelerators, trying
to duplicate the unit used in the RSB for the Fang SDB and the Cuspid
gunboat.  I ran into a bit of a problem, which I can't seem to resolve. 
Merrick and I have tried to work through it, but to no avail so far.  If
anyone from GDW is following the list, perhaps you can provide an answer. 
 
As given, the weapon is a TL 15, 196 Mj N-PAW, powered to -3 DM (ROF 200,
so MW = 20x Normal).  The power use is 109MW.  The tunnel length is given
at 14 meters. 
 
Now, given the FF&S design sequence, max diameter for a PAW tunnel is .125,
so for a 14 M tunnel, max diameter is 1.75 M.  Tunnel diameter 1.75 gives a
FA of 2.41 M.  At TL 15, Effective Length = Actual Length and  the FA
multiplier is 4.  So, Effective Length = 14M and Effective FA = 9.64 M. 
Effective range for an N-PAW=Effective Range X Effective FA X 1000.  With
these values, Effective Range = 134,960 KM, which equates to 4.498 hexes in
BL terms.  Okay so far, the published ratings for this PAW are: 
 
Short        Med        Long        Ext 
5:70            10:41        20:21        40:10 
 
However, if you round the Eff range up to 5 hexes, you come out with a
PVshort of 63, PV med of 32, Long of 16, and Extreme of 8.  If you round it
down to 4 hexes, you come out with PVshort of 79, PVmed of 39, PVlong of
20, and PVext of 10.  This also assumes that, unlike lasers, R _can_ be
less than 1, since the design sequence says round R to the nearest .01, but
doesn't say round values of less than 1 to 1. 
 
What do people think?  I'm curious whether we're missing something here. 
 
Will

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Oct 95 17:02:00 EST
From: "Upton, Django" <DUpton@vtrnntov.telecom.com.au>
To: hiwg-list <hiwg-list@fwe.com>, tml <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Laser Power Limits Oops!
Message-ID: <30919FFE@msmailv0.telecom.com.au>


I've got a different idea to the TL*50 power limit.

Try 250MW input power per square metre of FA surface area MAXIMUM.
 -----------------------

Oops! I meant MJ.

Django.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Oct 95 10:08:00 PDT
From: ROWAN Iain <wm0iro@acresearch.sunderland.ac.uk>
To: traveller <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Ship sizes
Message-ID: <30911209@missgate2.sunderland.ac.uk>


Hi everyone,

I'm delurking for the first time with a quick question.

Is there any rough standardisation for the sizes of ships
within a certain class?  I'm interested as to whether there's
any canonical GDW view, but I'd also be interested in
hearing what any of you use in your campaigns.

What I mean  by this is whether the term 'battleship', for
example, correlates to a particular range of tonnage -
how big is a battleship?  10,000 tons? 100,000 tons?
As another example, I've seen the term cruiser used in
Traveller to describe ships of between 1200 tons and
60-100,000 tons.  There's a big difference in terms of
performance and firepower between the two.  Do you
think that tonnage should be the criteria for describing
a ship's class, or should its role do so - so if a local
planetary navy is using a 1000 ton ship as the largest
offensive part of its fleet, that ship is by definition a
battleship?

As a related question, I'd be interested to know whether
any of you place any maximum limits on ship sizes.

If you reply, I'd be grateful if you let me know what
campaign setting/set of rules you are using.

Cheers,

Iain

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 07:31:59 -0700
From: PPUGLIESE@pimacc.pima.edu
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: DGP
Message-ID: <01HWXDMXUG3E8Y6NZY@pimacc.pima.edu>

From:	IN%"traveller@MPGN.COM" 23-OCT-1995 16:17:13.36
To:	IN%"traveller@MPGN.COM"  "Multiple recipients of list"
CC:	
Subj:	DGP

Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 19:14:32 -0400
From: rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger)
Subject: DGP
X-Comment: Traveller Mailing List



Digest Group Publications is alive and well.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


What're they up to these days?

Whatever happened to 'AI'?



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 10:54:13 -0600 (MDT)
From: merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM (traveller)
Subject: Sensor stuff
Message-ID: <9510271654.AA01826@Rt66.com>


Howdy,

a thread on the xboat list about jump entry signatures got me thinking about 
them.  I've assumed that they'll provide a Bogey-Detection (B-D) out to some 
undefined huge distance.  There are some assumptions that need to be worked out 
to take it any farther.

1.  Jump exit sigs are the same regardless of jump number. (yes? no?)

2.  Jump exit sigs change with displacement of ship (bigger ship, bigger flash).


If we take these to be true, then in addition to an automatic B-D, maybe a 
sensor operator might be able to glean other useful information.  This dovetails
with an addition to my sensor rules I've been playing with.


Sensor Rule Additions v0.9

Bogey-Detections (B-Ds) can be "Outstanding."

Automatic B-Ds are considered Outstanding.

Since B-Ds give the range, useful information gleaned from the strength of the 
received signal. 

Outstanding B-Ds give the following benefits 
(Active sensor with DF, or passive sensor):

1.  If the B-D was influenced by the target going active, an outstanding success
indicates the short range of the active sensor (that or the MWs used by the 
sensor).

Outstanding B-Ds give the following benefits (Passive sensor):


1.  If the target used gturns, then the total MW used for thrust that turn are 
known (we know the exhaust has more energy than the input MW, but this gives the
relative energy output of the drive regardless---was that a 1000 ton ship at 
2gs, or a 500 ton at 4gs?

2.  If the target was detected as a bogey because of a jump exit, then the size 
class of the target is known (Small, Medium, Large, Very Large, etc.).


Comments?  Suggestions?  I don't have enough of a feel for jump flash to say 
more than this, but the rest seems OK so far.

-Merrick

------------------------------

End of TRAVELLER Digest 464
***************************
