TRAVELLER Digest 550

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Traveller Rules (Was Re:Yars) by BLAIRM@eworld.com
  2) 20 Pubs I'd pay money for. by "Lorenz E. Pogue" <lpogue@notes.cc.bellcore.com>
  3) TNE in MT? by Susan Marie Shock <34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
  4) Challenge Magazine by George Herbert <gherbert@crl.com>
  5) Space Opera by Susan Marie Shock <34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
  6) Rules & Tl stuff by broussa@connecti.com (David C. Broussard)
  7) Traveller vrs White Wolf by broussa@connecti.com (David C. Broussard)
  8) Re: Rules & Tl stuff by merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
  9) RE: Rules & Tl stuff by That Computer Guy <darkstar@UDel.Edu>
 10) Re: Rules & Tl stuff by merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)

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Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 08:57:50 -0800
From: BLAIRM@eworld.com
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Traveller Rules (Was Re:Yars)
Message-ID: <960116085742_22556043@hp1.online.apple.com>

On Fri, 12 Jan 1996 17:32:50  David J. Golden wrote:
xxxxxxx BEGIN QUOTE xxxxxxx
        You're missing the point. Many people feel the TNE rules (myself
included) are a great improvement over CT or MT. Yes, I started with three
little black books. Then I moved along to the MT. Now I'm relatively happy
with TNE. Each step, I felt, was an improvement over the others. I DON'T
WANT TO GO BACK TO CT OR MT -- if I did, I'd still be there.
        What I _do_ want is the current rules with a few tweaks. And scads
of background material and adventures. I don't have the time or energy (or
creativity, frankly) to come up with all that stuff. And the effort spent
updating and reissuing the rules would better be spent on that kind of stuff.
xxxxxxx END QUOTE xxxxxxx

I agree with you.  In general the TNE rules are better written and have
benefited from years of "playtesting" through CT and MT.  I know some people
feel that TNE is little more than a military game, but it does not have to be
that way.  The "crawling your way out of the dark ages" setting will tend to
lend itself to more military campaigns and TNE has a lot of work invested
into those type of rules and suggestions, but there is no reason that a TNE
game has to concentrate there.  The rules are just as capable of handling
non-military role-playing and are in many ways simpler than the earlier
systems.  A lot of it depends on what the GM and his players want in their
game.

                                                              Blair A. Monroe



                                                            blairm@eworld.com








                                                       bmonroe@mailer.fsu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 13:28:20 -0500
From: "Lorenz E. Pogue" <lpogue@notes.cc.bellcore.com>
To: "traveller" <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: 20 Pubs I'd pay money for.
Message-ID: <199601161828.AA19971@notesgw2.cc.bellcore.com>

All CT influenced (maybe some MT influence) forget TNE!  This means time = 1050
to 1150
All of the below imply artwork, diagrams, charts, and detailed plans.
 1. Complete compiled Character Gen (ala Scouts, Merc, High G, Basic, College,
Citizens, and Aliens).
 2. Complete predesigned starship manual (mostly common starships) with simple
design charts.
 3. Complete (seperate) Military Starship manual (mostly War ships) for major
space combat.
 4. Compiled history of the Regency (to provide a sequential backdrop of
political intrigue/war)
 5. Library Data for players and LIBRARY DATA for GMs
 6. Major Players Source Book (a reference containing all the movers and
shakers, with bios, through time)
 7. The Techno Whiz Book (items/vehicles/weapons/devices of various technical
wizardy levels)
 8. The Ancients ( asource book of ancient technology, sites, and a couple of
adventures)
  -Actually adding an adventure or two to each GM Reference would help to keep
PCs out.
 9. A player reference book?
 10 and 11.  A pair of compilation books containg all the original adventures
(bigger pages, smaller print,    cheap to create (already done) possibly offer
alternative endings/twists, fits ten adventures/book).
 12. The Spinward Marches Subsector by Subsector (ala the original full page
subsector maps w/descrips)
 13. Space the final frontier (sectors of previously uncharted space, with
details and adventures)
  - Charted space only consumes about one tenth of the Orion Arm of the Milky
Way.
   Where is the other 99% of the Milky way (okay 95% excluding the galactic
core gravity well)
 14 -17. Adventures for Starship crews, Merc Tickets, Ground Adventures,
Patrons (more detailed than 76).
 18. A boardgame that doubles as ship miniatures (plastic will do), ship to
ship combat rules, and a perfect    playing surface for such, with an
interesting  combat game and an adventure (for regular Traveler    inside!
Would contain about forty ships of various designs (again cheap in plastic)
retail $35?  19. People, Places, and Things (Plastic people (pre/non painted)
25mm is a better scale than 15mm,    Cardboard vehicles, and paper (durable)
deckplans)  could come in a variety of packs at a    reasonable price.  Say the
Scout Package (Five scouts an Air/raft, an ATV, and one or two    scoutship
deckplans $10.  Free Trader, Vargr Corsair, Fat Trader, Mercenary Cruiser,
Yacht, etc..
 20.  Detailed Subsector descriptions.  Each planetary system, with major NPCs,
trade info, tech info,    system info., legal/political activity, starports
(with maps or drawings), atmosphere, terrain, sky,
  system defenses, and any special activities.  Again include adventures to
keep PCs out.

Thank you for hearing my opinion, I hope that my ideas influence the direction
of Traveller.  These are things I would pay real money for and after all "Money
talks, B******* walks!"  Consider making basic rules and a few other goodies
(particularly old well worn facts and such) publicly available on the web, to
draw in both the old and new Travellers!  That which is out there has refueled
my fire for Traveller!

Lorenz Pogue

------------------------------

Date:         Tue, 16 Jan 96 13:47:59 EST
From: Susan Marie Shock <34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM, xboat@MPGN.COM
Subject: TNE in MT?
Message-ID:   <960116.135226.EST.34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>

I'm considering (only CONSIDERING, Dave! Don't panic!) switching my RC campaign
over to the MegaTraveller system to ease the transition to the next version of
TRAVELLER, which I fully expect to be more like MT than TNE. I'm not very
experienced with MT's ship design rules, however, and would therefore like to
know; can you build some of the newer ships (the AURORA Clipper or the VICTRIX
class) with MT? or at least come reasonably close? Any other suggestions on how
to recreate the RC background using MT are also appreciated. As I said, this is
just an experiment at this stage. Thanks!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 11:53:24 -0800
From: George Herbert <gherbert@crl.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Cc: gherbert@crl.com
Subject: Challenge Magazine
Message-ID: <199601161953.AA05010@mail.crl.com>


While I feel that the best thing to happen to Challenge is that
an existing game company pick it up and run with it (whoever ended up
being the corporate entity publishing Traveller, perhaps), that may not
happen for some reason.  I have asked Marc for some of the information
regarding the circulation and a look at the books for the magazine, if
possible, pursuant to making an offer to become the Publisher if nobody
better qualified comes forwards and assuming that it will be financially
viable as an independent entity.

-george william herbert
gherbert@crl.com

------------------------------

Date:         Tue, 16 Jan 96 21:10:03 EST
From: Susan Marie Shock <34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Space Opera
Message-ID:   <960116.212106.EST.34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>

Space Opera...let's see, that's the game with a drug that stops cellular
decomposition so that recently dead people can be revived. Small problem; the
drug is distributed by BLOOD CIRCULATION, which stops at the moment of death...
   I have a friend who loves to create RPG characters; it's her favorite part
of RPG's. She will create characters for games she KNOWS she'll never play, she
enjoys it that much. After two frustrating hours, she GAVE UP on creating a
Space Opera character.
    Now some people on the Internet really love SO. Proof that ANY game, no
matter how complicated and unplayable, has it's fans.
  TNE did not fail. GDW failed, for reasons which went far beyond TNE, and for
which the TSR lawsuit must be blamed to some extent. One game will not save a
company which has been in trouble for years. To tell you the truth, what seemed
to hurt TNE was MegaTraveller! many of the game shop owners I talked to (about
20; admittedly a limited sample) were leery of stocking it because of the SLOW
sales they experienced on MT. Once we explained that they were different games,
they started carrying it. Overall, it seemed that TNE's sales weren't bad, just
not good enough; for that you would have needed another seller on the level of
VAMPIRE.
    Sorry about blowing off steam, but the demise of GDW is painful enough
without blaming my favorite SFRPG for it! (if blame must be placed, blame
Dangerous Journeys!)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 22:03:14 -0600 (CST)
From: broussa@connecti.com (David C. Broussard)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Rules & Tl stuff
Message-ID: <199601170403.WAA03826@ConnectI.com>

Comments on a couple of recent postings.

1. In response to:
Contents from "The Tender", a quarterly magazine for Antique
Starship Enthusiasts, Vol 258, No. 3, Pub. 1204/01/12, Glisten,
Spinward Marches.

Just one word...bwwwaaahhhhaaahhhhaaahhhhaaahhhhaa ( to quote Commodore
Bwanna! )
That was hilarious (I hope it was meant so B-) )!!!

2. In response to -- The absolutely, completely, *inexcusibly* unworkable
Technology Level system.

        I agree partly with Phil MacGregor's argument, and the response by
Christopher Weuve.  TL doesn't exactly work, and bre4aking it out into
multiple systems would be better.

3. In response the the general BASHING of TNE rules, along with the dislike
of FF&S, I have these pearls of wisdom to offer.

        3.1 - I for one like the TNE rules.  I even like the Task Resolution
system.  I like the fact that a character can not have a skill, and has a
chance to perform the skill.  I also like the asset with a firm belief that
statistics play a part in performance.  Otherwise ANYONE could play
professional sports!  I would puch to use percentiles instead of D-20s, and
please NO D-6 rolls.  I HATE 2-12 ranges!

        3.2 AS for the FF&S bashing.  I can agree with you on this to a
certain extent.  I do like the ability to customize to the detail that FF&S
goves me.  However I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of
starships I have designed with it.  I have a 3" binder someplace full of
starships, vehicles, etc I designed under Book 2 and High Guard.  My
suggestion would be this. It also BTW: solves the ship contruction problems.
We can use the basics of FF&S to design components that fit into vehicles,
starships, etc.  For example.  You want to build a starship.  It will be a
custom built hull (most ships are anyway).  However, you decide you want to
get Jump 3 performance.  So the contractor building it plops in a basic
component that gives your rated 50 or 100 ton hull increment.  It may waste
tonnage, but its guarranteed to work for your ship.  Then you put in plain
vanilla sockets, and the weaponry for them.  Computers are next, Life
support etc.  All standard components (e.g.) Buy a Gigaserver 9000 rated to
handle a up to a 1000 ton ship, or simply allocate xm^3 per person for Life
Support.  Finally it comes time for the power plant.  Instead of custom
building a powerplant for the exact MW req for your ship, you purchase
plants in 10, 25, 50, 100 MW increments.  Gee this does sound a bit liek old
book 2.  This BTW does solve the ship building time problem.  Figure the
time to build the hull, then to git it out.  Everything else is standard.  I
would suspect that a competent shipyard could put out a Free Trader with a
few custom mods in about 2-3 weeks.  Military ships would most liekly NOT
use this ssytem, they would have most of their stuff custom built, but it
would not necesarily be higher tech (smaller, lighter, etc).  MilSpec is
built to rougher standards, and is often 2-5 times larger/heavier than CivSpec.

AGGGHHHHH I have rambled forever!!!!!!

Hope this helps!
David C. Broussard (broussa@connecti.com)
Home page: http://www.connecti.com/~broussa/
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The opinions represented herein are the sole responsibility of
the proclaimer, and should not be interpreted as dogma, doctrine
philosophy, or anything else other than blabber.  However, if you
REALLY like it, then gimme a dollar!
-----------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 22:22:56 -0600 (CST)
From: broussa@connecti.com (David C. Broussard)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Traveller vrs White Wolf
Message-ID: <199601170422.WAA04840@ConnectI.com>

WW is the single WORST RPG on the market today.  Background might be great,
but the rules don't even justify the trees being cut down to make the paper
to print them out.  It isn't even an argument about realism, those rules
basically don;t allow the players any leeway for doing the right things
right!  Ducking in combat doesn't necessarilt make you harder to hit, forget
covering fire, and try explaining how it is harder to learn your fourth
language than your first, and how its as easy to learn Fluent Lithuanian as
it is learning basic computer operations.

WW tapped into a market of potential gamers that used to hang around the
periphery of RPGs.  By making games set in "our" modern world so that the
players need to know very little about the game.  They don't need to learn
mechanics as there really aren't any.  All they have to do is ham it up
acting out their personal fantasies.  (Don't get me wrong, I am not against
any of this.)  The storyteller is responsible for telling the story, and
using the rules.  As a result, Rules that are easy to learn, but don't
always work for experienced gamers.  I have always disliked games that don't
allow someone who actually knows something about what their character is
doing (Former Military playing a merc, Computer Programmer playing a hacker)
from being able to use some of their professional knowledge.

As for military RPGing, I have this to say.  If you don't want fighting in
your game, fine,  However, I rather like to blow up things in my RPGs.
Perhaps it keeps me from blowing up things in real life! heheheheeheh B-).
Don't begrudge me a rule system that lets me fight it out when I want to,
and I won't begrudge you your lack of detail in other areas.

Oh, maybe MM could purchase Leading Edges Phoenix Command small arms combat
system and drop it into his new Traveller.   Hehehehehe (evil laugh!) ;-)

David C. Broussard (broussa@connecti.com)
Home page: http://www.connecti.com/~broussa/
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The opinions represented herein are the sole responsibility of
the proclaimer, and should not be interpreted as dogma, doctrine
philosophy, or anything else other than blabber.  However, if you
REALLY like it, then gimme a dollar!
-----------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 23:58:30 -0700 (MST)
From: merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Rules & Tl stuff
Message-ID: <9601170658.AA06859@Rt66.com>

>         3.2 AS for the FF&S bashing.  I can agree with you on this to a
>  SNIP


I agree with a lot of this, but I'd just like to point out that most of
the ideas about FFS are already in FFS.  The problem with FFS is that
you have to custom design every damn system, right?  I don't think
that's the problem.  I think it's that they didn't bother making some
really useful tables of pre-made sub-systems.  Now that I have a couple
pages of MFDs done at various TLs, and sensor packages, etc., doing an
FFS design isn't too much harder than HG.  BUt that's still a design
problem of FFS (the jump all over the book path to creating a design
doesn't help in the least, I might add).

-Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 10:24:03 -0500
From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@UDel.Edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: RE: Rules & Tl stuff
Message-ID: <199601171524.KAA01937@chopin.udel.edu>

In Reply to Your Message of Wed, 17 Jan 1996 02: 03:55 EST
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 10:24:03 -0500
From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@chopin.udel.edu>

: >         3.2 AS for the FF&S bashing.  I can agree with you on this to a
: >  SNIP
:
:
: I agree with a lot of this, but I'd just like to point out that most of
: the ideas about FFS are already in FFS.  The problem with FFS is that
: you have to custom design every damn system, right?  I don't think
: that's the problem.  I think it's that they didn't bother making some
: really useful tables of pre-made sub-systems.  Now that I have a couple
: pages of MFDs done at various TLs, and sensor packages, etc., doing an
: FFS design isn't too much harder than HG.  BUt that's still a design
: problem of FFS (the jump all over the book path to creating a design
: doesn't help in the least, I might add).
:
: -Merrick
:

Here, here!  I totally agree.  Granted now that I've gone through and
done a bunch of designs I've got lots of plug-n-chug components ready
to go.  I think that the real "lite" part of FFS Lite is just creating
tables with all of this stuff already to go.

You know, stuff like Roger Myhre's standard laser list (speaking of
which does anyone know where I can get another copy, mine's getting
worn out), premade MFD's with laser and ems sensors figured in, etc...

Break down drive tables to give info on vol per tonne of thrust per 1,
10, and 100 displacement tons.  Then you can easily figure out req'd
volume, fuel, etc, simply by multiplying this figure out by your hull
size (and you can interpolate odd sizes using this).  The same could
be done for jump drives and what not.  Also, include the alternative
technologies in said tables (makes it much, much easier to reference
that way).

Hey Merrick, do you think Marc will let us help him with this one?  8)

       --Jerry

8) Jerry Alexandratos                %  "Nothing inhabits my    (8
8) darkstar@strauss.udel.edu         %   thoughts, and oblivion (8
8) darkstar@canary.pearson.udel.edu  %   drives my desires."    (8

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 09:30:27 -0700 (MST)
From: merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Rules & Tl stuff
Message-ID: <9601171630.AA20372@Rt66.com>

>
> You know, stuff like Roger Myhre's standard laser list (speaking of
> which does anyone know where I can get another copy, mine's getting
> worn out), premade MFD's with laser and ems sensors figured in, etc...

One point about plug-in weapons...

The problem with the plug-ins produced in BL, FFS, etc. was that they
seemed to be arbitrary (in terms of DE, and size).  I never agreed with
the approach that they should design the rules, then see what
technologies get developed.  This is fine for a game that is just
starting, but not for one with a rich history.  Since lasers don't ever
get above factor 9 in HG (I would treat batteries as larger weapons, not
groups of smaller ones at times in my HG designs) the TL*50 DE limit
makes sense in this regard.

I'm just harping on the lasers as an example, though. A decision needs
to be made regarding what technologies are best for what.  The people
living in the high TL society have had thousands of years to figure out
what trechnologies work for what.  (Can't you just see a weapons
designer in the Regency smacking his forehead and saying, "Hey, all we
need to do is make a *big* laser and all other weapons are obsolete!  I
wonder why nobody thought of it in the last few thousand years?" :-)

Back to my first point... they're arbitrary in FFS, but it only bothers
me because the rules allow better ones.  All we need to do is make it so
the rules duplicate the range of CT weapons (though I'm willing to give
plasma/fusion weapons a miss for ships).

-Merrick

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End of TRAVELLER Digest 550
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