TRAVELLER Digest 555

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) 3D Traveller by Simon.Harding@vuw.ac.nz
  2) 2300AD by John Muir Macpherson <muirmac@uclink.berkeley.edu>
  3) TNE IS TRAVELLER! by 34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Susan M. Shock)
  4) FutureTraveller by 34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Susan M. Shock)
  5) Re: 2300AD by "Christopher Weuve" <caw@intercon.com>
  6) Why the Imperium is a Tech Backwater by Phillip McGregor <aspqrz@sydney.DIALix.oz.au>
  7) Re: Jerry Vs. Wil: The "Real Traveller" Debacle. by "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@smtpgate.read.tasc.com>
  8) Re: 3D space in Traveller by "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@smtpgate.read.tasc.com>
  9) Re: The "Real" Traveller by merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
 10) Re: TRAVELLER digest 553 by Benjy Barton <Benjy@iap.net.au>
 11) Pieces & Parts for FFS by Joseph Heck <ccjoe@showme.missouri.edu>
 12) Re: TRAVELLER digest 553 by merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
 13) a post from r.g.f.m by merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
 14) RE: a post from r.g.f.m by That Computer Guy <darkstar@UDel.Edu>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 21:28:13 +1300
From: Simon.Harding@vuw.ac.nz
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: 3D Traveller
Message-ID: <199601190828.VAA13764@rata.vuw.ac.nz>

In the last issue of Traveller Digest there was some discussion of 3D
Traveller. I acknowledge the difficulties it creates for previously
established history and background, but feel it is the natural next step. I
already use a 3D space system for my combat situations and it works well
using vectors and grid-space coordinates.


Simon Harding












------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 00:54:13 -0800 (PST)
From: John Muir Macpherson <muirmac@uclink.berkeley.edu>
To: Traveller Mailing List <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: 2300AD
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9601190016.C25116-0100000@uclink.berkeley.edu>

From: Julian Love <julian.love@st-johns.oxford.ac.uk>
>My favourite alternate setting would be a Traveller:2300 one. I like the
>idea of a TL11-12 setting, where frontiers are real and haven't EVER been
>explored before, with the various nations  of earth all having their own
>agenda. It makes the universe a far more exciting and dynamic place than
>the star-spanning empire of CT and MT.

Here, here!  While were writing out our Trav wish lists for MM to
fill, let's add the resurrection of the 2300AD setting!  And how about a
sourcebook for one of the arms that the Kafer's _don't_ trash.
Has anyone noticed a trend with GDW games?  In Twilight the world
starts out trashed, in 2300AD the Kafers trash it, in CT the Rebellion
and then Virus trash it, in Dark Conspiracy creatures from other
dimensions trash it....  What's with the apocolyptic obsession?  Maybe
they were predicting their own demise. ;-)

--Muir

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 06:17:03 -0500
From: 34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Susan M. Shock)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: TNE IS TRAVELLER!
Message-ID: <199601191117.GAA00179@Mithril.MPGN.COM>

>
>Hi All. In the last mailing, Jerry let Wil have it for bashing TNE in
>favor of "real Traveller".  While I think that Wil's wording was a bit
>extreme, I have to agree with him that CT and MT are the "real" Traveller
>systems.
        I'm weary of this whole debate. GDW, who was the copyright holder,
named the game TRAVELLER The
New Era. That makes it Traveller. It has the SAME background as all previous
versions of the game, merely advanced in the timeline. Yes, it has a
different system; so what? TRAVELLER has always been more background than
system. You may not like the direction that the background took (I wasn't
terribly fond of the Rebellion myself) but it's still Traveller, because
those responsible for producing it SAID it was! When Marc Miller
puts out a new edition, whatever that may be, THAT will be Traveller!
        When Traveller does come back, you better hope it does so with a
state-of-the-art 1990's era system, or you'll be mourning it's death again
before long. Classic Traveller belongs to the 1970's; there it should
remain. TNE may have had flaws, but at least it looked and played like
TODAY'S RPG's.


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 06:41:29 -0500
From: 34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Susan M. Shock)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: FutureTraveller
Message-ID: <199601191141.GAA00435@Mithril.MPGN.COM>

     It has become increasingly obvious to me that the new Traveller is
going to be based on the original system, but with, as Mr. Miller put it "20
years of roleplaying experience"  added in. With almost that much
experience myself, here's what I think those "upgrades" should entail:
        1.) Improved Character Generation rules that keep the flavor of
CT/MT character creation while skipping the Survival roll (it can be assumed
the PC's ARE survivors or they'd never be PC's in the first
place) and allowing for MORE SKILLS!! (7-8 levels per average character
simply is not enough in comparison to other games that have skill systems.)
And perhaps Advantages and Disadvantages (in some fashion) to help flesh out
personality!
        2.) A skill system which is less broad; I personally feel that the
level of detail in the TNE skill system is about right, as is the basic
ratio of 2 new levels for each 1 old level.
        3.) A task system! The somewhat maligned MT task system was actually
not that bad. I have seen worse, and no less a source than Steve Jackson
once said he thought it was good. (Steve is one of my gaming gurus.)
        4.) A combat system with a degree of realism but still relatively
easy to use. Again, MT didn't do too bad in this department. At least we got
away from Battle Dress making you harder to hit! That kind of abstraction is
"creeping D&D-ism" from the seventies that we can do without!
        5.) An abstracted space combat system that requires nothing but pen,
paper, and imagination. The system as presented in the Mk1, Mod1 rulebook
for TNE could, with very little trouble, be reworked for the new game. I
of course also would like to see a tactical ship combat game with the level
of detail of Brilliant Lances, but with Mayday-style movement.
        6.) Vehicle design systems that WORK and are fairly easy to use. I
do NOT want to see a repeat of the
MegaTraveller Generic Vehicle Design Charts. FF&S should simply be
translated to the new rules, the reality errors fixed, and away you go! Put
the design rules for STARSHIPS and ROBOTS in the core rules, and leave the
rest for the supplement.
        As much as I enjoy TNE, I agree that GDW erred seriously in not
making it easy to convert systems.
I agree wholeheartedly with the ideas expressed for a conversion appendix;
it is absolutely vital, especially
to bring TNE players in.
        What I want to see is a system which uses the best parts of TNE and
MT (which, in terms of it's basic
design, was an improvement over CT), with new goodies added as well.


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 07:20:50 -0500
From: "Christopher Weuve" <caw@intercon.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: 2300AD
Message-ID: <9601190720.AA50934@caw.intercon.com>

John Muir Macpherson said:
> Has anyone noticed a trend with GDW games?  In Twilight the
> world starts out trashed, in 2300AD the Kafers trash it, in CT
> the Rebellion and then Virus trash it, in Dark Conspiracy creatures
> from other dimensions trash it....  What's with the apocolyptic
> obsession?  Maybe they were predicting their own demise. ;-)

I am not sure one could say that the Kafers "trashed" the French Arm.  There
was a war.  For a while the nations of Earth were losing, then they started
winning.  If anything, since 2300 was the T2k setting +300 years, there is a
message of hope in there.

Then again, there was the "death watch" program junk put out at the end...


Christopher Weuve  [caw@intercon.com]
Through sheer random chance, my employer may
someday agree with something I say.


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 01:01:56 +1100 (EST)
From: Phillip McGregor <aspqrz@sydney.DIALix.oz.au>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM, xboat@MPGN.COM
Subject: Why the Imperium is a Tech Backwater
Message-ID: <199601191402.BAA16734@sydney.DIALix.oz.au>

OK, I bitched about the tech problems that exist in the currently existing
Traveller world-view (and what I still think is the dead end of FFS, even
excepting its un-necessary level of obtuseness in design), now, just to
show what a little bit of creative thinking can achieve -- the reasons *why*
the Imperium is such aa backward place!

There are actually two (related) reasons --

1) The reason for Terra's defeat of the Ziru Sirka at the end of the Nth
Interstellar war, and

2) The Terran Federation's *loss* of the Nth Interstellar war

(and, no, the above two statements are *not* mutually exclusive - bear with
me for a while!)

How to Win a Modern War

Here we are making certain important assumptions - that "modern" wars mean
full scale conventional wars rather than guerilla actions and the sort of
civil disorder that is masquerading as "war" in Africa and (to a great
degree) Bosnia and Chechnya; and that they are, ultimately *Total War* (i.e.
they are wars to the "death" ... or the destruction/conversion of one side
by the other).

Given this, and assuming that the US Civil War is the first of the modern
"Total Wars" (the Napoleonic wars don't quite cut the mustard here), then it
can easily be seen that the winning side is always the side that has the
largest and strongest economy. This was the case in the Civil War, WW1 and
WW2.

Now, although the initial Interstellar Wars were fought by Terra against
the local Provincial Governor on the Imperial Rim, by the end they were
occupying the whole attention of the Ziru Sirka. Given that, then the Terran
Federation would have lost. It doesn't matter that they may have had
access to more advanced technologies, they would have succumbed to Imperial
mass in the same way the Germans had better tanks but could not stand up to
US tanks simply because the US had many more than the Germans did (being
simplistic here). It doesn't matter that the Terrans had *some* vessels that
had the advantage of better JDrives (it is unlikely that they would have
been able to re-equip the entire fleet with brand new ships!), they *still*
would have lost.

Accepted that as a reasonable assumption? Well, then, *how* in the hell did
the Terran Federation win? The answer is simple -- *they* actually
outproduced the Ziru Sirka!!! How? Simple, there seems to be an assumption
all through Traveller (in prices of equipment and services, in all the
design rules, and in all the supplementary material) that the Imperium has
an industry that is basically the same as that of *here and now*. That is,
basically manpower intensive (after all, we are assuming a civilisation
some 3000 years in the future here -- the exact opposite should be true, tho,
of course, the term is quite relative)! In other words, most people go off
to work in factories that, apart from producing high-tech goods, are not
too different from those today.

This is quite ridiculous. Why would it be the case ... well, we know from
assorted source material that in both the Imperium and the Solomani sphere
there are anti-robot forces that have forced this on both governments. Or
so it is suggested!! This is not *entirely* true - the real truth is that
the inherently conservative Vilani social structure has rejected anything
more advanced (how does this affect the Solomani? bear with me).

The Terrans of the Nth Interstellar War period, however, had no such qualms
and produced increasingly highly roboticised factories that, at the end,
effectively became half Von Neumann machines (i.e. capable of producing
anything less complex than themselves) and, *right* at the end, *full*
Von Neumann machines (capable of reproducing even themselves). These autofacs
mined their own resources, refined the ores and chemicals, and produced the
finished products on demand, all without any (or much) human intervention.
Productivity was vastly more than it is now in 1996 (or is in the 6th
millennia of the Imperium), 100 fold, 1000 fold, 10000 fold? More? Regardless,
the Terran Federation were able to swamp the Imperials with tech at the
"cutting edge" and beyond that only they could afford to produce in bulk.

*That's* how they defeated the Vilani.

2) How the Terran *Federation* lost the Nth Interstellar War.

But I just explained how they beat the Vilani ... !!! Note the wording
carefully *beat the Vilani* ... NOT *won the Nth Interstellar War*. This
is important.

We know from Megatraveller (Imperial Encyclopaedia) and other Traveller
material (especially re the Psionics Institutes) that the Imperium has no
qualms about, and a long record of, manipulating the truth to turn the
whole of "accepted" history into nothing less than an organised lie.

Thus, the Terran Federation *did* lose the Nth Interstellar War even tho
they *did* defeat the Vilani! How? Simple, the Terran Federation - the
democratically elected government of the Terran Sphere - were betrayed by
bloody-handed fascist militarists under Admiral Estigaribbia!

The fleet elements that supported the fascists could not have been enough
to force the Federation to accept their rule on a long term basis -- a
significant proportion, probably a majority, would have remained loyal
to the civilian government -- so they needed assistance. And who offered
it to them? Who did these elitists have more in common with , the
democrats or the Vilani aristocrats? Answer's simple - they got the support
of the Vilani aristocrats and Megacorps, as well as the troops and ships to
enable them to occupy the key worlds of the Terran sphere with Vilani
forces to keep the majority of ordinary Terrans who loathed the military
plotters under "control".

What was the price for this assistance? Well, neither the Vilani Megacorps
(who would have been run out of business) nor the Vilani bureaucrats liked
the idea of technology run rampant, social disruption, and uncontrolled
change that the Autofacs represented, so they demanded that all the *really*
advanced models be destroyed. The Admiral and his lackeys agreed - as,
after all, *they* didn't want their precarious hold on power disrupted by
some new tech development either!

So, there we have it! The Imperial Data Packet is intended to *restrict*
the spread of technology, *not* foster it! The laughably stupid way in
which it rates technology is a deliberate ploy by the Imperial manipulators
to get the populace to accept some basically identical technologies as
*different*, to think of really outrageous technologies as "doable", and
generally have a distorted view of the *reality* of tech development. After
all, if you can manipulate the way a man thinks, that's a whole hell of
a lot better than fighting him.

3) How about the Solomani? Well, the Vilani occupation forces were *all over*
the Terran sphere, and they didn't just "go away" ... there was resistance
to the Imperials for generations. Thus, when the "Long Night" fell, there
were substantial Vilani populations on all the Solomani planets -- and they
felt the need to identify themselves with the locals during that period of
chaos, and so adopted Terran names and faked their backgrounds.

They were so entrenched in control of the bureaucracies of the Solomani
planets that they were exceptionally successful in doing so - and they
have remained successful to the present day! In fact, many of the senior
leaders of the Solomani Party are close to pure Vilani in genetic terms,
and they *know* it ... the whole "Solomani Supremacy" rubbish is more
about the power it gives them to take on the Imperium and be big fish in
a little pond (as opposed to little ones in a big pond) than anything
else!

See what a little paranoid conspiracy theory can do with the stuffed Tech
rating system? And *all* of the above either fits the "facts" as already
known or, where they may be minor discrepancies, this can be passed off as
the Imperial manipulation of the truth. And it all makes a weird sort of
logical sense.

Comments?

Phil McGregor


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 09:42:51 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@smtpgate.read.tasc.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Jerry Vs. Wil: The "Real Traveller" Debacle.
Message-ID: <s0ff6760.086@smtpgate.read.tasc.com>

Charles Collin writes:

>Hi All. In the last mailing, Jerry let Wil have it for bashing TNE in favor of
>"real Traveller".  While I think that Wil's wording was a bit extreme, I
>have to agree with him that CT and MT are the "real" Traveller systems.
>Call me a stodgy traditionalist, but TNE always struck me as a
>desperate attempt by GDW to get on the bandwagon of flashy RPG's
>with a dark-chic background.

   Aside the tragic loss of GDW, I fear that there is another victim as
well: the TNE game mechanics.  To many Traveller fans, the TNE source
information and background are tied totally to the game mechanics.  This
was never intended to be the case.  TNE was conceived of as the basis
for a whole series of sourcebooks dealing with non-post-Collapse
settings and even alternative universes (FF&S didn't include all that
alternative technology just for variety's sake).  Perhaps in some ways
it was _too_ flexible, as more than one person I have talked to uses the
TNE game mechanics with their pre-1117 Spinward Marches campaign
(some have even went on past 1117 ignoring the Rebellion and Collapse
completely).  If GDW was guilty of anything in that regard, it was in
not ``keeping a finger up in the wind`` and adapting to the marketplace.
Instead of _yet_ another sourcebook on the Reformation Coalition,
they should have released the Regency sourcebook just after FF&S,
and followed that up with a sourcebook on the pre-Rebellion era.

   But I have not come here to bury GDW or to praise it (sorry Wil).  The
TNE game mechanics (separate from the background) are some of the
best in the gaming industry.  They are the best of all the sci-fi RPGs out
there, _including_ MegaTraveller/Classic Traveller.  They are well
balanced, giving you detail without necessarily killing you with it.  It is
possible to use the game never designing a single vehicle or starship,
or handcrafting every vehicle your PCs encounter.  We can debate
the things that perhaps it does not do as well as it should (e.g. a total
lack of sniper rules, not enough ``plug it in`` modules to ease ship
design when you are math/time challenged), but those flaws are not
game killers and can be easily addressed.  Should Marc Miller make the
decision to go with slightly revised TNE game mechanics in the next
version of Traveller, I think he'll find that he made an excellent choice.

   As to what constitutes ``Real Traveller``, simply open the book and
look for ``copyright Game Designers' Workshop`` or ``copyright GDW``.
That's your sign it's real Traveller.  When FarFuture Enterprises (Marc
Miller's company that will be producing Traveller products from my
understanding) begins publishing, then that will be ``real Traveller`` as
well.

>  I don't think the TNE system is all that bad, thought the combat
>system is a little cumbersome, but I think the complete change in rules
>systems was a mistake that scared off a lot of old Traveller players.

   So changing to yet another system will bring people back?  If I am
reading Marc Miller correctly in his posts here, the new system he is
contemplating will _not_ be completely compatible with any of the
previous systems.  It will be, in essence, a second attempt at
MegaTraveller without the Rebellion as its primary focus.

>  Almost everyone who played CT moved on to MT (in my experience
>anyways), and those that didn't were (speculating here) scared off by
>the 10 typos per page.

   Ah, now we are getting to the heart of ``why TNE?``.  MegaTraveller
from its inception was a farmed out piece of work.  We can only
speculate as to what the problems were on DGP's end--too small of an
operation to handle a project this big, poor quality control, etc.--the fact
is that GDW could have caught all the problems with MT and did not,
and for that they took responsibility a long time ago.

   GDW's overall sales were in decline for a protracted period _before_
TNE was introduced.  TNE therefore represented an attempt to revive
sales and to a certain extent restore the good name Traveller once had.
GDW determined that a fresh start was needed, so Frank Chadwick,
Dave Nilsen et. al. came up with the concept of the ``Star Vikings``,
and talked extensively with Traveller players about what they did and
did not like about the old systems.  TNE was the result.

   So why didn't TNE revive sales as GDW hoped?  There were of
course market factors involved (competition, business cycles, etc.),
but _I_ think the biggest factor was that the post-Collapse background
simply turned the bulk of Traveller fans off.  Sure, people grumbled
a bit about the new game mechanics at first (this is normal), but to
those players who had run campaigns for literally _years_ in the same
area, only to be told that region of space had just been trashed by a
super weapon, was just too much to take.  IMHO, had the new game
mechanics been introduced with a post-Rebellion ``the Imperium's seen
better days but it's recovering nicely`` background, we would not be
here talking about the demise of GDW and ``where the heck do we go
next with the story line?``

>I think going back to the MT system would be a good  move so long as it
>is fixed up a bit and the rule book is *thouroughly* proof-read.

   And _thoroughly_ spell checked too. <G>  I'm not so sure that this is
a good idea, since the problem with the last system (TNE) wasn't the
game mechanics.   Let's put it this way: the problem was not the boat, it
was the oarsmen, so why go to all the trouble of building a new boat?

>Having said this, I have to agree with Jerry that the important thing is to
>keep Traveller alive, in whatever form.

   _That_ my friend is the most important thing of all.  It will do the TNEers
little good to lose this debate and then lose Traveller entirely because
they went out and campaigned against the new version.  We could
debate the true loyalties of those people who sat out TNE and nitpicked
it, but it's a can of worms that is better off left on the shelf.

>People should be prepared to accept the fact that no one is going to get
>exactly what they want.

   Well you can't always get what you want.  But if you try sometimes,
you just might find, you get what you need.

>Also, Marc Miller seems to have his mind set on going back to a CT/MT
>variant of some sort, so we are to some degree arguing a moot point
>here, no?

   No.  Though it is apparent that Marc Miller has some preconceptions
about what he would like the FarFuture Enterprises release of Traveller
to be, nothing is set in stone.  The time for those of us who want to
keep the TNE game mechanics in place to speak is now, not after
everything has gone to print.  I refuse  to become a complete
curmudgeon and start up a mailing list separate from the one that
_normal_ Traveller players use.

Regards,

Harold



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 10:08:06 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@smtpgate.read.tasc.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: 3D space in Traveller
Message-ID: <s0ff6d2d.039@smtpgate.read.tasc.com>

Charles Collin writes:

>Alex Holt suggested 3D space in Traveller.  I like this idea, but I think
>there are cons as well as pros.  For one thing, it would make all
>previous maps and subsector data useless, thus junking a large part of
>the background that makes Trav such a great game.  It might even
>have  some nasty effects on the history of Known space.
>
>Having said that, I've always wanted a 3D Traveller universe.  It's not at
>all hard to do.  You keep hex maps, but have subsectors by 10 x 10 x
>5 parsecs.

   I have only one thing to ask anyone who would advocate using 3D
space in Traveller without a computer:

   _Are you nuts?!!_

   Aside from the problems you point out above, 10 x 10 x 5 parsec
hexes aren't large enough.  You have stars in relatively close
proximity to Earth in the X and Y coordinate that are over 10 parsecs
away in the Z coordinate (Beta Hydri being one).  That doesn't even
include the lovely possibility of having stars that are _way_ over 10
parsecs (try 20, 30 or more) away from each other in the Z coordinate
in some other part of Imperial space.

   Those of us who developed eye strain and carpel tunnel syndrome
from all the typing we did on our calculators trying to play 2300 AD
like the old fashion 2D maps just fine, thank you very much.

   Now having slam dunked you, let me say that I would love an _easy
to use_ 3D space map.  It should be  inexpensive (less than $30 US),
Windows/Macintosh compatible, and be able to show me the stars in 3D,
giving me distances to from any given star system to the any other
given star system simply by pointing and clicking.  A nice additional
feature would be something that would give me all the star systems
that are within range of my starship, given its jump capacity and the
name of a given star system.

   I take it you're still listening Mr. Miller....

Regards,

Harold



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 08:36:39 -0700 (MST)
From: merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM (traveller)
Subject: Re: The "Real" Traveller
Message-ID: <9601191536.AA01088@Rt66.com>


Wow, the debate is in full swing I see. Here's a few more credits worth
from me.  I agree that the new setting is what alienated a bunch of old
players, not the mechanics.  Personally, I don't mind having a TNE
setting out there, because if I don't like it, I won't use it (hell, if
I go to the trrouble of playing out my own version of FFW, you can tell
I take the nitty-gritty history as a guideline :-)

The problem as I see it is where mechanics changes void too much of the
background.  In the 3d map debate, I'd weigh in on the side of 3d if it
doesn't void background---non-trivial in this case.  The way to do it is
to call the old maps maps of jumpspace, and still valid.  There might
even be systems all around that aren't on the map---why?  Because they
aren't accessable in a "normal" way through Jspace.  This will not only
add 3 space, it'll add unexplored worlds right inside the Imperium!  You
need to go sublight to get to them (there must be some hand-waving to do
about why some places are blocked in Jspace).  That or it would be the
subject of Imperial study (can you say "safe staging areas").  But I
digress.

The TNE mechanics are OK by me, I like the task system, and prefer d20
for the simple fact that I have a better feel for the %s than with 2d6.
Mechanics doesn't change the background, though.  Technology does.  Keep
the parts of FFS that work, fix the other bits so they look more like
the tech you'd expect.

-Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 00:24:27 +0800
From: Benjy Barton <Benjy@iap.net.au>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 553
Message-ID: <30FFC5BB.494F@iap.net.au>

>Merrick wrote

>As for dampers, they weren't provided, but they were promised, so the
>lack of them in FFS (the mention that they would be coming was in BL)
>was an oversight, not an intentional change in the history.   You must a 
Diffrent Version of FFS then me (or maybe my English is not to good} because
  nuclear  damper are on page 57, and a samples are on pg.153 and in BL on pg. 
20,21 and in BR on
  pg.14.
>Also, in CT
>there wasn't really a hex to put your ship in.  Book 2 doesn't mention
>dampers that I recall, and HG doesn't mention the range of a damper
>screen.  I always assumed it was just a little farther out than range of
>proximity detonation range for a nuke (on the order of 10s of
>kilometers, I would think---maybe a couple hundred).   Your right on all these 
counts, in HG which is part of CT there is no hexes my mistake. but it
  did have long and short as ranges. you also failed to pick up on my little 
joke about how every
  character tends to be high ranking officers both in MT and Book4 of CT.  In 
book 1 you couldn't
  help but be officers.  I state this as all the Characters i've seen, hardly 
any have been below
  NCO at retirement.


--
         It's Better to Burn out,than to Fade away!!!!
                                      Highlander

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 11:51:34 -0600 (CST)
From: Joseph Heck <ccjoe@showme.missouri.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM (TML Submissions)
Subject: Pieces & Parts for FFS
Message-ID: <199601191751.LAA159566@gold.missouri.edu>

> From: "Bruce Johnson" <JOHNSON@tonic.pharm.arizona.edu>

> I think we're onto something here, folks...I finally got my own copy
> of FFS 'tother day, and between reading it, and listening to others
> comments here, I'm rapidly getting the feeling that FFS is a sort of
> 'Object Oriented Design System' Now, of course, if you push it hard,
> the analogy breaks into a million bits, but, collectively putting our
> work together, I'll bet lots of people have pre-designed chunks we
> can all just plug in. The hard part, like an OOP, is building the
> $@#!##@ objects the first time. Net.Book anyone? (depending, of course on
> whatever the copyright issues are for publishing designed based on
> FFS...Have you gotten that far yet, Mark?)

There's already some of that happening, although nothing organized.
I've been keeping archives of all the starships & such posted to the
TML, GDW-Beta, and elsewhere that I can find. Most of these are
complete designs, but there's a number of designs for "lasers" or
such. For example, I have in the archives a design for a TL14 700Mj Laser...

If we stick with FFS, then there's already quite a collection of
interesting pieces out there...

(http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/traveller/archive/TNE/FFS.designs/TL14.700Mj.
Laser.txt)
--
 joe                          (573) 882-2000
 ccjoe@missouri.edu           http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe
 "with a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and
 imprenetrable fog!" -- Calvin

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 11:45:38 -0700 (MST)
From: merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 553
Message-ID: <9601191845.AA22159@Rt66.com>

>  You must have a diffrent Version of FFS then me (or maybe my English is
   not to good} because
>   nuclear  damper are on page 57, and a samples are on pg.153 and in BL on pg.
 20,21 and in BR on
>   pg.14.

It's a minor comment on page 21 of the BL rules, "Larger damper
installations may conduct defensive fire against all missiles that fire
on the ship during the turn."


-Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 12:02:15 -0700 (MST)
From: merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM (traveller)
Subject: a post from r.g.f.m
Message-ID: <9601191902.AA24011@Rt66.com>

I saw this on rec.games.frp.misc and thought I should repost it to the
TML (Stephan isn't on the TML).  Some good points, as well as some
humor.

-Merrick


>From szielins@us.oracle.com Fri Jan 19 08:43:23 MST 1996
Article: 94594 of rec.games.frp.misc
From: szielins@us.oracle.com (Stephan Zielinski)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: GDW bungling Traveller (was Re: First mention of Ithklur?)
Date: 18 Jan 1996 01:30:58 GMT
Organization: Oracle Corporation. Redwood Shores, CA
Lines: 105
Reply-To: szielins@us.oracle.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: decay.us.oracle.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Dane Johnson (dane@coho.halcyon.com) wrote:
: Perfidious Zhodani Agents report szielins@us.oracle.com said:
: > Just out of sheer curiosity, were the Ithklur ever mentioned before
: > the Hivers / Ithklur supplement came out?  If they were, was it
: > indicated that they were the most fearsome warriors known?
:
: They were (briefly) mentioned in the Classic Traveller Hiver Alien
: Module.  They were described as being one of the early militant societies
: that the Hivers had "civilized" and that they made up a bulk of the
: marines.  I don't recall them as being particularly fearsome, nor even
: being very well described, physically...

Okay.  I promised I was going somewhere with this question.  Here goes.

Every now and then I contemplate running a "Traveller flavored" GURPS
game.  Now, I bought the Hiver / Ithklur supplement ("Aliens of The
Rim") used; I paid about six bucks for it.  The description of Hiver
society was interesting.  Some of the writing was AMAZING.  (The
sidebar containing a Hiver's take on human historical fiction, for
example.)  The commentary on the Mechnod Hello was to the point, and
built well on "known facts" about the Hivers.  If I ever do run my
Traveller flavored game, the material will be useful.  It fufills the
purpose of a gaming supplement: it expands on material already
presented, giving additional useful and intriguing information for
those who wish to emphasize that aspect of the game world in their own
games.

BUT.

Ignoring, for the moment, the fact that the Ithklur were designed to
be FUN, rather than reasonable-- hey, it's your game, play a cheerful
Monty-Python quoting homocidal anarchist lizard clad in a Santa hat
and Hawaiian shirt if you want to; have a whole race of the blasted
things, see if I care-- their inclusion was VERY badly retconned.

The supplement states that Ithklur are acknowledged to be the most
fearsome warrior race known, explicitly denigrating the Vargr and
Aslan.  Now, that's the sort of thing I do NOT want to see if I have a
running campaign.  I can just see this exchange:

     "OK, Hreiehiu, this Ithklur gets in your way."
     "How big?"
     "Medium size."
     "I knock it aside and continue on my way."
     "Are you sure?  It's much bigger than you are."
     "Eh?  You said it was medium sized."
     "For an Ithklur.  Two, two and a quarter meters."
     "What, it's some giant sentient HERBIVORE I haven't heard of?"
     "No, it's part of the Hive Federation.  Reptillian.  THE most
fearsome warriors known-- much scarier than any other species."
     "YAK DUNG!  I'm a sodding ASLAN!  I bloody ATE half a platoon of
Solomani guerillas LAST week ALONE!!"
     "Pfaugh.  Naah, Ithklur are much tougher.  Says so right here.
Oh, and this one's looking at you.  It says `Transylvania 6-5000!' and
bonks you on the head."
     "Stephan, this is a joke, right?  You're messing with me, like
the time I took the panel off a navigation computer and you said there
was a Droyne inside, with an abacus."
     "No, it's for real.  Right now it's silly-walking around you."
     "I get it!  First contact!  The Hivers let a new race join the
Federation, and they're particularly strange."
     "No, they're the first race the Hivers ever met.  Incidently,
this one takes a paperweight out of its pocket and shakes it,
mesmerized by the falling snow."


Folks, it ain't no wonder GDW is shutting down.  Even granting the
premise that The New Era was a good marketing move-- even I will admit
that it added flavor / variety / an excuse to generate a round of
supplements-- the supplements themselves did not provide good return
on the investment.  At least a quarter of the page-count of the Hiver
/ Ithklur supplement was devoted to character generation rules;
there's a Big Ouch right there.  The tone shifted wildly from one race
to the other: conspiracy nuts have no use for comic relief killer
lizards, and the only thing the happy bang-bang powergamers want to
know about Hivers is whether they writhe more in Willy Pete or napalm.
What'd the thing retail for, twelve dollars US?  I would have been
SICK if I'd paid that much for it.

The supplement directly contradicted What Had Gone Before It.
Everybody and his Vargr knows that the K'kree are the most deadly
SPECIES humaniti has contacted, with the Aslan topping the charts on
the INDIVIDUAL scale. But then, here comes this chirruping little
tome, that hands the honor to CORN-DOG EATING IGUANAS.

This is not a "mistake."  GURPS Fantasy II was a mistake-- a
gloriously detailed, intriguing gameworld that was fundamentally
unplayable.  GDW's handling of the Traveller line can only be
described as "bungling."

Marc Miller's list of What He'd Like to See for Traveller concentrates
on the wrong things.  The FIRST thing that needs doing is a single man
needs to sit down and comb through the existing works and decide what
the canon should be.  And once you've established canon, STICK TO IT.

Bah.  I'm rambling.  I'm getting passionate about a game background
whose politics depends on a 2D map of a 3D galaxy.  With a beam like
that in yer eye, yelling about lizard-shaped motes is fairly
pointless.

It's just... I wish there was something I could do about the Beowulf...

--
Stephan "Great, now I'm depressed.  Time to go put on some Solomani
music and goose-step around the room until I feel better" Zielinski



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 14:30:02 -0500
From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@UDel.Edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Cc: szielins@us.oracle.com
Subject: RE: a post from r.g.f.m
Message-ID: <199601191930.OAA26065@chopin.udel.edu>

In Reply to Your Message of Fri, 19 Jan 1996 14: 07:48 EST
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 14:30:02 -0500
From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@chopin.udel.edu>

: I saw this on rec.games.frp.misc and thought I should repost it to the
: TML (Stephan isn't on the TML).  Some good points, as well as some
: humor.
:
: -Merrick
:
: The supplement directly contradicted What Had Gone Before It.
: Everybody and his Vargr knows that the K'kree are the most deadly
: SPECIES humaniti has contacted, with the Aslan topping the charts on
: the INDIVIDUAL scale. But then, here comes this chirruping little
: tome, that hands the honor to CORN-DOG EATING IGUANAS.

Okay, I'm responding to both the list and the address in the mail.

I have this to say about Traveller history, warriors, et al.  The
K'kree are the most bloodthirsty race that humaniti has ever made
contact with.  They aren't the most powerful warriors.  However, they
are the most militant, the most ruthless, and definitely very, very
cunning.  Just because you've got the highest body count because
you've exacted the greatest amount of brute force still doesn't make
you the best killer, just the biggest.

H&I states that the Ithklur are the single best race of warriors.  It
portrays them as efficient, lethal, artists.  They don't erradicate
entire species because they like beef!  They fight to create a mood
and setting, just like any other artist who creates art.

As for the Santa hat.  I like it.  Makes you wonder just how much
manipulation have the Hivers done?

       --Jerry

8) Jerry Alexandratos                %  "Nothing inhabits my    (8
8) darkstar@strauss.udel.edu         %   thoughts, and oblivion (8
8) darkstar@canary.pearson.udel.edu  %   drives my desires."    (8

------------------------------

End of TRAVELLER Digest 555
***************************
