Subj:	TRAVELLER digest 304
Date:	95-06-01 21:45:42 EDT
From:	traveller@mpgn.com
To:	traveller@mpgn.com

From:	traveller@mpgn.com
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			    TRAVELLER Digest 304

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) RE: TRAVELLER digest 303
	by E.Watters@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK
  2) Deep Static Cloak
	by "Brendan O'Donovan" <Brendan@odonovan.demon.co.uk>
  3) Interest rate (Re: TL Increases)
	by bonn0015@flipper.itlabs.umn.edu (STEVEN M BONNEVILLE)
  4) Re: Robot Design Sources
	by lhowie@dilbert.lrmi.com (Les Howie)
  5) Stellar Catalogs
	by lhowie@dilbert.lrmi.com (Les Howie)
  6) Re: TRAVELLER digest 299
	by Alvin Plummer <alvin.plummer@sheridanc.on.ca>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Jun 1995 03:49:25 EDT
From: E.Watters@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: RE: TRAVELLER digest 303
Message-ID: <0099135B.272024A0.32@v2.qub.ac.uk>




Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> sent:


>E.Watters writes:

>>I decided to follow up the recent thread about TL increases by doing a 
>>study of the Regina subsector, using new era data from the TNE rulebook,
>>and comparing this with the megatraveller data in the MT rulebooks.

Hans responds:

>That's a very small sample. My statistics are a bit rusty, but with the
>number of widely different types of planets you have, 30 or so is much
>too low a sample to give any meaningful data. If just one of those
>planets are atypical it throws off the results.

>You base this on one out of one capital planet and one out of one industrial
>planet. That is not... ah, how can I put it delicately... not sound
>statistics. The same goes for the rest of your conclusions.


I am well aware that the sample is small, but as the Regina Subsector was the

only Regency subsector I could get my hands on, I thought I'd give it a go. 
Besides, as the only surviving imperial economy is the Regency, 30 or so
worlds isn't that low a sample. Also, just using common sense, where are the 
places on our planet that technical innovations are lightly to occur? In
the industrial sector, and these innovations are researched, in some cases,
in universities, which capitals usually have a lot of. You don't need 
statistics if you can draw a sound analogy.

I wrote:

>>There are 2 E and 2 F Tl worlds in the Spinward marches that possibly 
>>survive into the New Era, as they are industrial, there's a good chance
>>they are now Tl F and G respectively. 

Hans responds:

>Efate, Glisten, Mora, and Rhylanor; which two are not even possibly
>survivors into the New Era?


I know that Efate, Glisten, Mora, and Rhylanor are in existence in MT times,
but as 'The Rape of Trin' shows, no world can be assured an existence in the
New Era. As to "which two are not even possibly survivors into the New Era",
I fear you may have misunderstood what I wrote.

Hans continues:

>Ah, Andrew, you've just pushed one of my pet Traveller buttons. You and
>Mr. Watters both make the same huge mistake: You ignore the difference
>between discovering new technology and applying it. Take the Spinward
>Marches anno 1105-1115, the time where Mr. Watters gets the first half
>of his data (or even 1065 if you maintain that the data we get in the
>CT books are un-updated Second Survey). With the exception of the score
>of interdicted worlds EVERY SINGLE WORLD HAS ACCESS TO TL 15 _KNOWLEDGE_.
>The Imperium has been solidly TL 15 for centuries. Even the poorest world
>would have had the money to pay for a set of basic textbooks (As a matter
>of fact I believe that the Imperium actually gave away technological info
>for free  -  or am I thinking of a variant article somewhere?). So why
>aren't they all TL 15? One reason is that they voluntarily restricted
>themselves to a lower tech. That's fine for explaining the odd pre-
>industrial world, but I don't think it will work for more than a few.
>The other possible reason is economic. They can't afford it. It follows
>from this that any change in TL (with the possible exception of the
>change from TL 15 to 16) depends on how the planet has done financially
>over the past 80 years.


I know that EVERY SINGLE WORLD HAS ACCESS TO TL 15 _KNOWLEDGE_. I take TL 
classifications to mean 'the TL that that particular world can sustain
on its own'. One reason that a world doesn't have a high TL could be that
it is rich, to take the example of Saudi Arabia.It is rich,has modern 
facilities, well equipped armed forces, access to TL 8 knowledge, 
sustainable tech? Tl 4, 5. Still, it is an integrated part of a TL 8
world.
I also know the difference between discovering new technology and applying
it.
It's called getting it out of the lab and into the market place. It involves
finding an application for the new technology, an economic way of producing
it, and selling it to the customers. I'd say that would be likely to occur
on the Industrial and possibly Capital worlds.

So in conclusion, can we please discuss, not lecture. I won't if you won't!

(P.S. appologies to TML readers if my arguments are disjointed, I can usually
only get on a computer at Midnight +) (|-()> Yawn!

Eamon Watters,
Queens University of Belfast(Cp, Tl9),
Northern Ireland.
CNG0016@qub.v2.ac.uk.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 13:58:29 GMT
From: "Brendan O'Donovan" <Brendan@odonovan.demon.co.uk>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Deep Static Cloak
Message-ID: <19@odonovan.demon.co.uk>

The Interstellarms Deep Static Cloak

This installation uses an array of ten area jamming drones, held in 
formation around a central ship, or convoy, to provide almost 
impenetrable protection against all sensors. The individual drones
are also well protected, as the easy detection of active emissions 
from any one emitter is prevented by the jamming effects of the other
nine drones.
This was designed during the Black War when ship assets began to
become more scarce and more valuable. This was originally fitted
to troop carriers engaging in planetary strikes, to provide protection
from naval forces on the approach to the target. The sudden appearance of 
intense static fields at the edge of a system soon began to strike fear
into the inhabitants, as they sat helplessly waiting for the battleships 
to uncloak above the planet.
However it was soon adopted by larger merchant vessels, as it provided 
a very effective defence against corsairs.
The combined effects of the ten jammers around the parent ship is to make
all sensor tasks virtually impossible both to and from the ship. 
This would make the ship as helpless as a black globe, but maneuver is
still possible, although it is limited to 1G in this basic installation
by the thrusters on the drones.
This is not really a 'stealth' technology, the massive ball of static
would be visible through almost any passive array, but locking onto
anything within the deep static cloak would be impossible. Ships
attacking cloaked ships would need to deploy fighter sweeps through
the field, destroying any drones they meet to allow larger vessels outside 
the field a chance to engage. Even then, it could take several hours for 
the ships to be located, by which time either the jump point or target 
planet could have been reached. Attackers would have to search a sphere
of space 90,000km across, in which the cloaked vessel could be hiding
anywhere, not just at the centre, as it can move independently of the 
drones.
Several of these cloaks have survived into the New Era aboard vampire
ships, and the Coalition possesses the technology to make more of them,
However, the high cost and fairly large size will mean that they are
not by any means common.

TL12 Deep Static Cloak
Price  :168.6MCr (includes 10 drones at 16.83MCr ea)
Power  :0.3Mw (for MasCom - drones are self contained)
Volume :371kl (26.5 ton bay)
Mass   :822.72tonnes (loaded)
Surface:161m2

Includes:
1x Spacious hanger for drone maintenance
9xDocking ring for drone storage
10xLaunch port
Workstation for operator
300,000km MasCom for drone guidance

TL12 Jamming Drone
Price    :18.7Mcr
Volume   :28kl
Mass     :80ton
Maneuver :1G, 8G-turns
Armour   :36
Power    :24.4Mw Fusion, 6month duration
Commo    :30,000km MasCom (intended to operate close to parent ship)

I designed this more like a spaceship than a missile,
It uses HEPlAR thrusters, so it is completely reusable, and could
be refuelled from the parent ship if necessary.

As far as I can tell, there is no limit to how many area jammers
can add their effects together, this configuration provides 
+10 diff mods to sensing tasks at the parent ship, and +8 to each drone.

At higher TLs, basic facilities such as presented above could be cheaply
fitted into much smaller spaces. I don't think there would be any need
to increase the number of drones significantly in larger versions, what
would be more useful would be to use larger drones with higher G-ratings
and larger areas of effect, to give the parent ship more space to hide
from fighter sweeps in.

Perhaps sensor drones with tight beam laser/maser communications could
be kept outside the jamming area to provide information on enemy positions
to the parent ship, even if not sensor locks. This could allow ships to
close range, drop the cloak and then engage with meson weapons, range no
longer being an important tactical consideration. Several short range
passive sensors would be more useful than one large one, as they would 
provide more opportunities for sensor locks.

I'm fairly new to TML, so sorry if someone else has thought of this 
already, but I don't have time to read through all the archived digests.

-- 
Brendan O'Donovan


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 09:43:20 -0500
From: bonn0015@flipper.itlabs.umn.edu (STEVEN M BONNEVILLE)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Interest rate (Re: TL Increases)
Message-ID: <9506011443.AA01643@bullwinkle.itlabs.umn.edu>

Hans Ranke <ranke@diku.dk> wrote:

>I did once calculate the return on investment you would get from buying and
>operating a Subsidized Liner. Unless I've made a mistake somewhere (which
>is all too likely) it works out at roughly 3% per year. For that sort of
>return to be a good one the inflation rate must be very low, which I
>believe indicates a stable economy. That seems reasonable for the pre-
>Rebellion Imperium. After the Rebellion all bets are off.

Heck, inflation should be flat just 'cuz I don't want to worry about it
when I'm playing games! :)

I did a similar calculation of the return on investment that the TAS
needs to get to hand out a high passage ticket to all members every eight
weeks, which works out to six and a half tickets a year.  Based on the 
MCr 1 fee, and assuming they pay full price for ticket vouchers from the 
Ministry of Transportation, they need to earn 6.5% interest on that 
megacredit every year.  I guess they don't invest in Sub Liners!  :)
Of course, the Imperial government may give the TAS a bulk discount on
the vouchers in order to foster interstellar commerce -- in a sense,
a subsidy on passenger travel.  

Of course, the TAS has other income streams -- presumably, local news
services pay them a fee to reprint stories off the TNS news wire, and
they may get some small amount of money for sales of educational holo
travellogues and any services that they don't offer at cost at the
hostels.  Also, they've been operating since just after 700 or so, 
so the TAS can also develop an endowment from the membership fess of
past members who have since died.  They could always have a fund-
raising drive too, I suppose.  :)

    Steve Bonneville
    <bonn0015@gold.tc.umn.edu>
 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Jun 1995 10:12:34 -0300
From: lhowie@dilbert.lrmi.com (Les Howie)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Robot Design Sources
Message-ID: <9506011314.AA22796@lrmi.com>

Bri <bri@teleport.com> wrote
>  Yes, someone mentioned building robots. Now(i'm assuming man sized, 
>humanoid. not big battledroids) how do you go about desinging them?
>

The source I know for robot design rules are a CT extension published in the
first few JTAS (and re-published in best of 1)  Doubtless there is an MT
source as well.  Doubtless all to be renderred obsolete by FF&S II.

The main problem with those rules was that you could build robots with
inhumanly high skill levels (pilot-8, gunner-10) which made human crews
almost redundant.  I kept the design rules out of player hands because of
this, and used robot for comic relief (like the steward-8 serving droid who
followed one player around like a lost puppy because he kept asking for
incredibly exotic gormet meals)
Les Howie
Senior Software Developer
Atlantic LRMI


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 16:22:28 -0300
From: lhowie@dilbert.lrmi.com (Les Howie)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Stellar Catalogs
Message-ID: <9505311925.AA14986@lrmi.com>

I've downloaded a block of old tml digests, and was reading back issues when
I ran into some comments by Joe Heck, and related questions, on the
availability of "real" star catalogs, giving 3D positions of nearby stars.

1. For the folks who expressed interest in getting the most recent, the
newest I have found online is the 1991 Gliese preliminary (which was put up
at CDS in 1993).  Its URL is

http://cdsweb.u-strasbg.fr/htbin/myqcat3?V/70A/

I would LOVE to hear abut a more recent version available for download.

2. As it was explained to me, data reduction is now going on for the
Hipparchus mission, which will give paralaxes out to 80 parsecs or so.  I
have seen nothing available for download available on that, however, and if
anyone has and more recent information, please let me know.

I think this would make an interesting setting for a near-future campaign.
Anyway, my apologies for answering a month-old question...
Les Howie
Senior Software Developer
Atlantic LRMI


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Jun 1995 20:36:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alvin Plummer <alvin.plummer@sheridanc.on.ca>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 299
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91.950601202239.14933B-100000@hubble.sheridanc.on.ca>

> From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Glisten RICE paper question
> Message-ID: <199505271122.NAA10396@embla.diku.dk>
> 
> Alvin Plummer writes:
> >Also, the Visual Basic 3.0 source code is provided, as well as Digest 7 
> >(TML0894-07??), detailing what a RICE paper is, how to write one, and an 
> >example (Glisten, Glisten/2036, Spinward Marches, during the Aslan 
> >Occupation).
> 
> That reminds me. I was going to check it out for myself, but never got
> around to it (mostly because I don't believe the Aslan's have a snowball's
> chance in hell of sucessfully invading Glisten,

[pause to savour some excellent old memories from xboat...]
<massive snip>

> Anyway, Glisten was written up in 
> an issue of_Traveller's Digest_ (I think). Did you base this RICE paper on 
> that writeup?

I didn't write up Glisten: Jeff Zetlin did.  He's the man to ask.
If you're interested in RICE paper's, check out the site on ghost: Deneb 
is still the all-round favourate (at least until I can squeese the time 
to do another... after I finally manage to automate most of the math, a job 
comes along!  Why do these petty distractions come along just when I am 
about to really start travelling?)

I am hoping (eventually) to get around to do a paper on Vincennes: this 
certainly won't be based on the Traveller Digest article.  Any future 
paper (from me) on Regina will be based on what little scraps I can get 
from the World Builder's Digest and the Scout's book (Classic: thank's, 
whoever it was who answered my question on Regina's system.)

Well, maybe I should wait until GDW comes out with a new Regina system in 
their long-awaited Regency book (July...July...July...)

>         "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
>          events based on the individual situation."
>                                 _76 Patrons_, p. 8

You know, I am still astounded by the Kinnur claim!  Can you imagine how 
a ship with 30 (thereabout) marines (armed with laser rifles, by the 
Emperor's name!) can put down 'any threat to the Imperial peace'?   


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alvin Plummer
"Preserve what we created, Norris, and remember what we stood for."
                               - Strephon, 179-1126

Reply to: alvin.plummer@SHERIDANC.ON.CA

------------------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

End of TRAVELLER Digest 304
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