Subj: Traveller-digest V1999 #1421
Date: 12/1/99 3:35:57 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, December 1 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 1421
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Different Technologies
Re: Deadfall Ordnance
"Aslan" name debate again
Re: Percussive Maintenance
RE: Different Technologies
Re: Police ranks
Re: Police Career
Bribery Skill
Bribery Skill
GS3/3 Solar Sails (was: Goryo-class Medium Fighter (GTL9) - corrected)
Re: Bifrost-class Solar Shuttle (GTL9)
Re: Iridium-class Solar Yacht (GTL12) - corrected
Re: Bifrost-class Solar Shuttle (GTL9)
Re: Bribery Skill
Re: GS3/3 Solar Sails (was: Goryo-class Medium Fighter (GTL9) - corrected)
Re: "Aslan" name debate again
Re: Bribery Skill
Re: LEO's
Re: Low TL Medicines
Re: Different Technologies
RE: LEO's
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 17:03:50 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Different Technologies
From: Bob Sanders
> Reading the ship designs using solar sails, and looking at FF&S, Gurps,
etc.
> I have some questions that has always bothered me about Traveller, and
would
> like to get some ideas from the crowd. Why is it that every race in the
> Traveller universe uses the same technology?
It's mainly because the wonder technologies of Traveller (contra-gravity,
reactionless thrusters and small fusion power plants specifically) eliminate
any and all competition. They are also cheap enough to be really pervasive
in the Third Imperium setting.
Personally, I'm in the same boat as you. It becomes a real problem when
you're designing ships and vehicles because there's no reason not to use
those technologies. As a result, two ships of the exact same size built by
different cultures will tend to be, at least functionally, *exactly* the
same. That may work for other people, but it doesn't for me. What's the
point of visiting strange new worlds and civilizations if they're all going
to be exactly the same?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 16:07:58 -0600
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)
Subject: Re: Deadfall Ordnance
.001 kiloton? why not just drop a WWII bomb?
This is certainly not in the planet busting category although it might stop
an armored fighting vehicle.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Bont
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 4:08 PM
Subject: Deadfall Ordnance
With the discussion of Dead-Fall Ordnance going on on the
GT:Navy playtest group, I got to thinking about Babylon 5 and the
weapons that the Shadows (or was it the Vorlons ...) used to kill
planets. They simply dropped large chunks of streamlined metal
through the atmosphere and the concussion was enough to
penetrate the crust and break the planet up from inside.
Well, here is a 6 cf, Radically Streamlined, Highly Armored Dead-
Fall missile. It has limited manuevering capability, just enough to
slow it down for reentry so aerobraking is not necessary. You just
drop it from orbit and when it hits, it does massive amounts of
damage (5dx2000 (2) ... more than a 0.0001 kiloton MicroNuke and
almost as much as a 0.001 kiloton).
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 09:03:50 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: "Aslan" name debate again
Dear Folks -
Glen asked:
>>allegory and morality. For example in the Chronicles
>>of Narnia the lion Aslan is a direct representative
>>of Jesus Christ. (And yeas that's probably where the
>>name Aslan came from for the Traveller race.)
>
>I thought we'd concluded that "aslan" was the Turkish
>word for "lion."
It *is* the Turkish word for lion, which is where Lewis got it from.
What we (on the TML) thought was that Marc (or J Andrew Keith - BTW, who wrote
"Contact! The Aslan" anyway??) either (a) knows Turkish and therefore used the
same source, or (b) knew the Narnia books and took it from there.
What we (on the TML) concluded as an ObTravRef was that the first humans who met
the Aslan were of Turkish descent!!
>>Or "Surprised By Joy", by C.S. Lewis, a Sci-Fi writer and infamous atheist.
>>
>>- -Crusty
>
>One assumes you mean Wyndham Lewis, rather than the infamous Christian C.S.
>Lewis?
I know sarcasm is difficult to detect in textual form, but I think "Crusty" was
just clowning around - don't you? ;-)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 16:21:34 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Percussive Maintenance
Matthew Bond wrote:
>
> I had an old B/W Telly once, that used to go blank on the screen
> periodically. I found that three firm but gentle taps on the centre of the
> screen with the back of a teaspoon worked wonders... you just need strong
> nerves at times.
Exaxtly three taps, you say? Did you have to mention anything about the
widow's son?
<>
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 17:29:54 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: RE: Different Technologies
Bob Sanders writes:
>From: "Luther Martin" who wrote:
>>One fundamental reason that everyone uses the same technology
>>is that the laws of physics are the same for all players.
>I agree, but we also know that many roads can get you to the
>same destination. ForEx. look at the many different types of
>power generation plants in the world. Gas, coal, nuke, solar,
>wind, etc... they are all optimized (the best they can be at
>existing technology) for their function. However they all still
>provide power. That doesn't answer my question of how the
>different races all developed the same solution to the
>engineering problem produced by space travel.
Just my Cr 0.02: There are differences in power generating
plants around Terra, but most of these are either minor
variations on the same technology, or based on resources
that vary considerably in availability. It could also be
argued that TL differences contribute. Nevertheless, how
many different kinds of cars are there? Sure, they may
look different (actually, they mostly all look the same to
me), and a mechanic might take a while figuring out the
details of some foreign cars, but almost all of them use
metal frames, rubber tires, and internal combustion
engines. That despite the wide range in environments in
which these vehicles must operate.
An interstellar civilization is, IMHO, unlikely
to have drastically different resources available than
another such civilization. There are probably many
minor variations on power plant design, but I expect that
even in the Imperium. Heavier, more reliable designs
might be popular for stations/planetside; light, low-power
designs for mobile bases; light, expensive, high-power
designs for starships, etc. I could see some races putting
more emphasis on reliability and having heavier power plants,
but they would probably still be fusion plants and probably
not unlike some models that would be familiar to an Imperial
engineer.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 17:31:42 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin
Subject: Re: Police ranks
On Wed, 1 Dec 1999 05:01:33 -0500 (EST),
david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:
>Dear Folks -
>Chris said:
>>>"Commissioner of Police", since there is no monarch to receive a commission
>>>from.
>>Anyhow, we *do* have Commissioners here in America. In Gotham City there's
>>Commissioner Gordon (he should be hitting retirement any day now).
>Doh! I should be shot for forgetting him! I was just going off Jeff's comments,
>and not actually *thinking*.
>Wasn't "The Commish" set in the suburbs? Different jurisdiction from the city
>beat? Jeff, help!?!
Don't know about the setting for the show, but in the NYC Metro
Area, each municipality has its own PD, separate from NYC proper.
In Detroit, there seems to be a slightly different arrangement,
based on my understanding of the post that described that area,
and I suspect that Los Angeles is Yet Another Model.
In addition, don't overlook the fact that there may be
_overlapping_ jurisdictions with multiple departments, and not
just city-contained-in-state-type of overlap - going back to NYC,
we have the following:
New York City Police Department: Jurisdiction within the legally
defined boundaries of the incorporated City of New York
New York State Parks Police: Jurisdiction within all State Parks,
including those within NYC.
MTA Railroad Police: Jurisdiction on the property of the
railroads operated by the Metropolitan Transportation Authority
(of NY State) - Metro-North Commuter Railroad and Long Island
Railroad.
New York City Sanitation Police: Jurisdiction over waste-disposal
violations within the legally defined boundaries of the
incorporated City of New York.
New York City Environmental Police: Jurisdiction over New York
City watershed and water supply protection. This includes over
the reservoirs upstate that serve the City.
Up until a couple of years ago, there was also:
New York City Housing Police Department: Jurisdiction within
housing projects owned or operated by the City of New York.
New York City Transit Police Department: Jurisdiction within the
New York City public transportation system (busses, subways, and
Staten Island Rapid Transit).
Both of the latter agencies were merged into the NYCPD a couple
of years ago.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 17:34:25 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin
Subject: Re: Police Career
On Wed, 1 Dec 1999 05:01:33 -0500 (EST), shadow@krypton.rain.com
(Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>In mail you write:
>>> Bomb Squad (Bomb & Explosive Ordnance Disposal)
>> Munitions and Special Package Division. Also responsible for
>> non-explosive devices of mass effect (e.g., poison gas emitters).
>And nukes, as terrorists *will* be able to get them, given how "common"
>the missile rules require them to be. :-)
Yes - but I sort of figured that a 'nuke' would be explosive, and
so well within the definition of 'bomb' or 'explosive ordinance'.
>Also, here's a lovely thought. Just imagaine what a bunch of terrorists
>with a nuclear damper could do. Set it to speed up decay and aim it at
>those nice granite government buildings.
So, when are you going to write the adventure?
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 16:38:26 -0600
From: Alex Ingram
Subject: Bribery Skill
In a recent discussion the subject of Bribery came up. I don't use it as a skill
in MTU. How difficult is it to bribe someone anyway?!? Is it like electronics
or medical, or even gun combat? How much training or experience is actually
involved to advance to a higher level. I accept it as a task, but not as a
separate skill! I assume that anyone with Streetwise would be successful at
bribery. Any opinions out there?
Alex
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 16:38:26 -0600
From: Alex Ingram
Subject: Bribery Skill
In a recent discussion the subject of Bribery came up. I don't use it as a skill
in MTU. How difficult is it to bribe someone anyway?!? Is it like electronics
or medical, or even gun combat? How much training or experience is actually
involved to advance to a higher level. I accept it as a task, but not as a
separate skill! I assume that anyone with Streetwise would be successful at
bribery. Any opinions out there?
Alex
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 17:24:47 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: GS3/3 Solar Sails (was: Goryo-class Medium Fighter (GTL9) - corrected)
>>Here is a 'corrected' version of the Goryo. Whether this is possible
>>without a larger sail than specified in GS/3 is debatable. This fits the
>>rules, but whether the rules fit reality...
>
>A 1-G solar-sail powered craft that is only about 33% (by mass) sail?
>Not even remotely plausible with any concievable technology; the formulae
>(or your interpretation of them) must be messed up. Could you post the
>exact formula from GS/3?
First off, my earlier post with equations is wrong. Never to math on an
empty stomach, after an 18-hour day. :-/
The problem is with GS3/e, I think.
A light sail module takes up one space. At GTL8 it has an area of 15 sq
miles, at GTL9+ an area of 240 sq miles. It provides 10 tons of thrust at
GTL8, 160 tons of thrust at GTL9+. Mass is 50 tons at all tech levels.
Another try at the equations:
Force = 2 x Power / lightspeed NOTE: assumes a perfect reflector
The solar power constant for Earth (the baseline GS3/e uses) is 1400 Watts
per square metre. Assuming a square mile (1600 m x 1600 m) the equation
becomes:
Force = 2 x 1600 x 1600 x 1400 / 300,000,000
This will be in Newtons per square mile.
(Please check the next bit for boneheaded math error, because I hate
conversions and aren't that good at them.)
To convert Newtons to tonnes-force, I used F=ma where m=1000kg and
a=9.81m/s/s, to get:
1 tonne-force = 981 N
Thus:
Force = (2 x 1600 x 1600 x 1400) / (300,000,000 x 981)
Finally, there are 0.907 tonnes in a ton, therefore I get:
Force = (2 x 1600 x 1600 x 1400) / (300,000,000 x 981 x 0.907) NOTE: in
tons/sq mile
Crunching the numbers (I kept them whole to avoid dumb transcription
errors), this is:
Force = .02685347213 tons/square mile.
Thus, for the 15 square mile sail I get 0.4 tons thrust, while for the 240
square mile sail I get 6.4 tons.
Have I made any boneheaded mistakes? Please let me know, so I ccan update
GT Shipyard to create realistic lightsails.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 17:37:56 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: Re: Bifrost-class Solar Shuttle (GTL9)
>That's the point, it's *not* the solar energy, it's the solar *wind*.
"The solar wind plays no part in solar sailing; it's important to
understand this from the start. The solar sail operates on sunlight
pressure - the pressure produced by light when it "bounces off" a mirror.
This force is 1,000 to 10,000 times greater than that of the solar wind,
and while there are many analogs between terrestrial sailing and solar
sailing, we must disabuse ourselves of the idea that the solar wind can
propel us through space."
p.17 "Starsailing: Solar Sails and Interstellar Travel" by Louis Freidman
>Right. now stop and consider this. 2.2e14 m^2 for sail area. If that
>sail weighs a *miilgram* per square meter, that makes it mass 2.2e11
>kg. or 2.2e8 *tons*. That sail with a 145.1 tonne thrust masses 220
>*million* tonnes. 145.1/220e6 = 660 one-billionths of a g accel.
>
>> According to GS/3, the sail is 240 square miles per space. I see that I
>> forgot to multiply the thrust by 0.5 (for the half space) but GS/3 lists
>> the thrust as 160 tons/space.
>
>> I think we've found an errata in GS/3.
>
>Major league. Alo note my figures above regarding the *mass* of the
>sail as it relates to area.
True, I was ignoring that. I suppose that as a lower limit on mass we could
assume a sheet a single molecule thick, and see what that gives for mass.
If it's reasonable, then I think we could handwave some form of "molecular
bonding" to get the material at upper-end tech levels. Of course, the first
cloud of thin gas and your sail would be ruined... If even a single
molecule sheet is too massive, then we've established a definative
'impossible'.
(As a matter of principle, I dislike the word "impossible" when applied to
engineering.)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 17:40:46 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: Re: Iridium-class Solar Yacht (GTL12) - corrected
>In mail you write:
>
>> A 'corrected' version of the Iridium. Whether sails like this are possible
>> is up for grabs. In particular, I doubt this thrust is available in the
>> specified sail size (360 sq mi). I'll reality-check the GS/3 rules tomorrow.
>
>360 mi^2 = ~932 km^2
>
>And it looks like your table makes the mass 68.0 (tonnes?).
Tonnes. I'm a Canadian.
>Which gives the sails a mass of ~73 *micrograms*/m^2. Yeesh!
>
>217.7 tonnes thrust?
>
>That gives ~233 micrograms of thrust per m^2.
>
>times 9.8 should give us Newtons. 2.29e-3 N/m^2
>
>> Looking at page 21 of "Starsailing" (by Freidman), I see that F=2P/c
>> (force, power, speed of light).
>
>Therefore:
>
>P=F*c/2
>
>P= 2.29e-3*3.8/2
>P= 343e3 W
>
>That's 343 kW/m^2!
>
>Sheesh! Solar flux at 1 AU is abou *1* kW/m^2
>
>Well, we've found the error...
1.4 kW/m^2
But that's a mere quibble compared to 343 kW/m^2.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 17:48:06 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: Re: Bifrost-class Solar Shuttle (GTL9)
>Robert Prior writes:
>>
>> Then fire off a letter to SJG and get GURPS space errataed, because that's
>> where I pulled the numbers from. Just a simple thrust/mass=acceleration
>> calculation.
>
>I think you got the weight wrong -- a one-space sail module is 50T, 50
>MCr, 160T thrust. I think GURPS Space may have also gotten it wrong, it
>has 240x the thrust of a similar module designed with VE2.
Actually, I got the thrust wrong. I decided to code with half-size sails,
so I could have an integer number of modules. I added a listing of sail
area to alert people (not that these will be big items).
>> I can see no reason why a light sail couldn't be a high-acceleration
>> vessel, assuming that the sail was big enough. GS/3 doesn't give sizes, but
>> I suppose you could do a backwards calculation from the thrust and average
>> solar energy in earth orbit.
>
>Actually, it does give a size, and requires an energy density of 400
>kW/m^2 to reach the listed acceleration.
Yeah, I found that the next time I opened the book.
Still, we've definately discovered an errata for GS3/e. I suggest claiming
a group credit and free passes to the next Mora Challenge Race.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 15:11:06 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: Re: Bribery Skill
I would make the following distinction. Streetwise may be useful for the
small bribes you might need to pay to get the police to look the other way
when you try to sell that cargo of widgets which don't quite meet local
health and safety standards. Bribery is useful when you are trying to
convince an Imperial official that *your* shipyard should get that
multi-zillion credit contract. In between, it's a judgement call.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Alex Ingram
To:
Cc:
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 2:38 PM
Subject: Bribery Skill
> In a recent discussion the subject of Bribery came up. I don't use it as a
skill
> in MTU. How difficult is it to bribe someone anyway?!? Is it like
electronics
> or medical, or even gun combat? How much training or experience is
actually
> involved to advance to a higher level. I accept it as a task, but not as a
> separate skill! I assume that anyone with Streetwise would be successful
at
> bribery. Any opinions out there?
>
> Alex
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 15:21:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: GS3/3 Solar Sails (was: Goryo-class Medium Fighter (GTL9) - corrected)
Robert Prior writes:
> A light sail module takes up one space. At GTL8 it has an area of 15 sq
> miles, at GTL9+ an area of 240 sq miles. It provides 10 tons of thrust at
> GTL8, 160 tons of thrust at GTL9+. Mass is 50 tons at all tech levels.
Note that in GVE2 the thrust is 5.26 lb/square mile (9e-6 newtons/square meter) or 0.63 tons for the above sail. Assuming a solar flux of 1,400 watts/square meter the actual value is 9.3e-6 newtons/m^2, which is reasonable enough.
>
> Another try at the equations:
>
> Force = 2 x Power / lightspeed NOTE: assumes a perfect reflector
>
> The solar power constant for Earth (the baseline GS3/e uses) is 1400 Watts
> per square metre. Assuming a square mile (1600 m x 1600 m) the equation
> becomes:
>
> Force = 2 x 1600 x 1600 x 1400 / 300,000,000
1609 meters, but close enough.
>
> This will be in Newtons per square mile.
>
> (Please check the next bit for boneheaded math error, because I hate
> conversions and aren't that good at them.)
>
> To convert Newtons to tonnes-force, I used F=ma where m=1000kg and
> a=9.81m/s/s, to get:
Bear in mind that we're talking US tons, not tonnes, and thus, it is 8900 newtons/ton.
> Have I made any boneheaded mistakes? Please let me know, so I ccan update
> GT Shipyard to create realistic lightsails.
Factor of 10 error in newtons/ton. Also, note:
A 1-space (50T) sail is 250 square miles with GVE2. Thrust is 0.66T. Maximum area is 360,000 square miles (1440 modules).
A 1-space (490T) TL-8 sail is 15 square miles with a thrust of 0.038T (it has marginally lower thrust); maximum area is 3,600 square miles (240 modules)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 15:11:31
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: "Aslan" name debate again
At 09:03 AM 12/2/1999 +1000, you wrote:
>What we (on the TML) concluded as an ObTravRef was that the first humans who
>met the Aslan were of Turkish descent!!
The first humans who *survived* meeting the Aslan..
Sudden thought.. the whole Aslan copied the jump-drive thing was written by
Marc, but showed up in Travellers' Digest.. is it still canonical?
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 15:16:51
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Bribery Skill
At 04:38 PM 12/1/1999 -0600, you wrote:
>In a recent discussion the subject of Bribery came up. I don't use it as a
>skill in MTU. How difficult is it to bribe someone anyway?!? Is it like
>electronics or medical, or even gun combat? How much training or experience
>is actually involved to advance to a higher level. I accept it as a task,
>but not as a separate skill! I assume that anyone with Streetwise would be
>successful at bribery. Any opinions out there?
Bribery is knowing who to bribe, how to pass it along, and what levels of
squeeze are needed for any given situation. It differs slightly from
Streetwise in that many "legitimate" citizens might by in a situation where
bribery becomes a part of daily life. (Anybody here every get pulled over
by the Sonora State Police? A US $10 bill, discreetly passed, and suddenly
the officer forgets he ever saw you or your car.)
People who work in heavily mob-controlled industries, for example, might
have high levels of Bribery to know how much of a kick back the family
gets, and how to launder it.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
Inquisitor Maximus, Reformed Canon Church of Sylea
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 15:21:00
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: LEO's
At 01:55 PM 12/1/1999 -0700, you wrote:
>That's odd...I thought 'Scotland Yard' was the HQ of your equivalent of
>the FBI, a national police force...Whatever they're called...I've only
>heard them referred to as 'Scotland Yard'.
>
>Of course, my experience comes from watching things like 'Cracker' and
>suchlike on PBS and A&E, and a pile of mysteries...
Ah, the perils of television.. every summer San Francisco gets planeloads
of tourist in shorts and t-shirts, who proceed to develop hypothermia while
waiting for cable cars.
Y'see they've seen "Baywatch", which is filmed in California, so they know
what the weather is going to be like...
"The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer day in San Francisco."
-Mark Twain
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 12:17:32 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Low TL Medicines
On 1 Dec 99, at 22:42, Robert O'Connor wrote:
> Glen Goffin and Rupert Boleyn wrote :-
> > > Of course, you won't get drowsy at all if you don't
> > > take anti-histamines. Acupuncture, vitamin C, and
> > > water all help clear the sinuses with no side effects.
> >
> > However this doesn't (unless your acupuncturist (?) is a whole lot
> > better than the one I tried) help much with hayfever. For that
> > antihistamines or, more recently, steriods are the way to go.
>
> Current evidence-based treatment for sinusitis :-
> - a non-sedating antihistamine (e.g. loratidine) ;
> - a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug (e.g. paracetamol/acetaminophen
> or ibuprofen) ; and - don't blow your nose - recent experiments suggest
> that this merely inoculates the sinuses with the causative virii/whatever.
> (You can generate pressures in excess of 200mmHg when nose-blowing ; this
> is not to be sneezed or coughed at!).
My father reckons that asprin works for him, too.
> Steroids for sinusitis are a bit of overkill, but they would work.
Here in NZ there's a pharmacy only (until recently prescription only)
nasal spray that my doctor told me was a steriod (shortly before
spending five minutes reassuring me that it wasn't like all those
"evil" steriods). It's called Beconase and seems to have Beclomethasone
Dipropionate as its active component.
- --
Rupert Boleyn
Wellington, New Zealand
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 22:34:29 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: Different Technologies
At 16:50 -0500 1/12/99, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>The only situation in which you will have competing technologies
>like that is when there are two or more technologies which are
>roughly equal, or which one or another group is philosophically
>opposed to using. In many cases, the 'standard' systems are just
>plain _better_ than any competing technology.
Except in the case of Windows or Betamax.
Dom ;-)
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
MiB - Marines in Battledress
"Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 22:42:41 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: RE: LEO's
At 16:50 -0500 1/12/99, "Trevor, Peter" wrote:
>In the UK we have a number of county and metropolitan police
>forces who all cooperate with each other fairly well, and who use
>a central crime database called the Police National Computer
>(enquiries to which are called PNC checks). Within these police
>forces there are various specialised units ... Special Branch,
>T-Branch (anti-terrorist), the Vice Squad, the infamous West
>Midlands Serious Crime squad, the Serious Fraud Office, the
>Complaints Investigation Branch, Criminal Investigation Division,
>the Transport Police (for railways), etc.
Interesting aside - the Atomic Energy Police in the UK are one of the
few police forces who regularly carry weapons, those and the airport
police.
>In addition there is
>Customs & Excise ... mostly visible at seaports and airports, but
>able to pursue investigations anywhere in the country. Finally,
And those investigations tend to work on the principle that you're
guilty until proven innocent ;-)
Someone else asked about 'Scotland Yard' - New Scotland Yard is the
HQ of the Metropolitan Police (London's Police force)
Dom
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
MiB - Marines in Battledress
"Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1421
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