
-------- TML Message #1707 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1707
From: wrgate.wr.tek.com!oresoft.com!richard@reed.UUCP (Richard Johnson)
Subject: PBEM Turn 10.4 (HUGE! 38Kbytes)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 90 8:42:42 PST



                   ****Warning!****

This message probably contains some spoilers for some characters.
I think however that they are necessary for the *players* to keep
a feel for what is happening, and to see the great role-playing
that is happening.  I tried really hard to not divulge anything
that was obviously private/confidential.  For those cases I let
slip, let your characters believe that your conversation got
overheard, or someone just figured it out.  Great deduction is
not beyond the ken of anyone here.  :-)

In order to get things re-coordinated, re-establish a consistent
time line, and generally improve what's happening, I took several
liberties.  Some of them might involve your character, and for this
I apologize.  I tried to be as "in character" as I could, but some
things I felt I just had to be a little heavy-handed about.


Sorry this is so long.  However there are lots of things happening.
Even though your character is not affected by all that is happening 
he/she very soon will be.  I suggest you read all the messages, and 
if necessary, tell your character to go to sleep.

Keep playing!
Richard
	and Joe and Gary if you see this -- thanks for the ideas :-)


============== end of PBEM Admisitrivia ======================
***************** BEGIN TURN 10.4 ****************************
(at least I think it's .4)


Prologue:  In Another System

- - --------------------------------------------------------------
"Refuelling commencing sir."

"Thank you.  Very goo..."

"Sir, I've got a wierd reading here.  I think you should check it out."

"What is it Aiwi?"

"A *VERY* large ship, actually several of them just jumped a couple of
hours ago sir.  Looks like they refuelled here and jumped into empty
space.  The sensors show a 3 parsec jump, only there's nothing at all
where they are going."

"Very well.  Keep scanning and let me know if you find anything else
unusual."

- - --------
A couple of uneventful hours pass.
- - --------

"Sir, I've got another strange reading.  One of our marker stars shows
an extremely faint, and very precise intensity fluctuation.  Only--
the star is not a pulsar, doesn't even have the right makeup for a
variable star.  It could only mean something is periodically occluding
it."

"What about locally?"

"Absolutely nothing could sir.  We're on the outermost planet of this
system, and, well, nothing moves like that.  Sensors show absolutely
nothing there either - even the neutrino flux and densitomiters that
give away those Solomani cruisers with (and she sneers slightly) 
`cloaking'."

"Sir," another voice pipes up. "We've now laid in a course to follow
that fleet.  Do you wish to change our orders?"

"Absolutely.  Remember why we're out here -- to discover and explore
new worlds for the glory of the Empire.  Lay in a course for that
marker star."

- - ------------------------------------------------------------------
Chapter 1:  Aboard the ISR Anslinger

In empty space (there sure is a lot of that) three ships wait, 
drifting, cloaked, using only reserve power.  Only a new scout ship, 
with a sensor savant, gliding right next to these ships would note 
their presence.  Periodically, the smallest ship uncloaks for a few
moments and checks for  incoming traffic.

The largest ship carries frozen deuterium in huge, icy balls.  It 
has five,  strung out one after the other like pearls in a reinforced 
steel cage.  Aft of the "snowballs" are two bulbous aneurisms where 
mighty hydrogen snow once stood.

The third ship is medium sized.  The ISR (Imperial Ship's Registry)
Anslinger is a troop transport.  Couple of hundred medium berths.
The Anslinger carries the most precious cargo for this mission to
R-alpha, people.  This morning they are gathering in a local rec
area, getitng acquainted and trying to work off the jitters of
their new assignment.  Most of them don't even know for sure why 
they are here--yet.

- - -------
    <sorry if I missed a couple of you, I was seriously
     overloaded :-(>

Howdy, Slide. My name is (Judge) Richard Jett, nice to meet you. I expect
that we will be busy enough once aboard the Alcyon, so let's take this
opportunity to get acquainted.


Dan turns away from the window, as he overhears Slide and Richard
introduce each other.  His long black hair has been tied back into
a pony tail, and he is wearing his old ISS ship coveralls.

	"A Judge? What do we need a judge for for? I assumed this
    was a scientific expedition.  Are you planning to hold court on
    ship?"


"I do hold a commission from his grace the Archduke of Deneb as an Imperial
 Circuit judge, but I am here as the official representative of Turnskaad,
 the backers of this expedition. They want their rights fully protected, as
 well as have someone keep an eye on all this expensive equipment that they
 have entrusted to Commander Ger and his teams. Just the Alcyon alone is
 worth a substantial sum."


Slide:  "It's a pleasure, Judge."

Turning to the Scout....

"Hi. I'm Wrinkley, Slide Wrinkely." [extends his hand]
"[Eyeing off his service patches] Where did you serve? I spent quite a
few years in Deneb and the Marches. Not IISS mind you, the Navy."

To the scout and the judge...

"How about we go find a drink, Judge's shout [winking]"

Dan shakes hands with Slide.  "Daniel Silvmane. I pulled duty down 
in the Trojan Reach. Survey work, and some maintenance work on 
Xboat stations. Not a bad life until they promoted me to a desk.
Navy huh?  Planning to join the transport team?"

Jett smiles. "Buy all the drinks you want, they're on Turnskaad. But if I
were you, I'd wait until you were aboard the Alcyon and in jump again. If
you report for duty intoxicated, Admiral Nanadh Nggemen Ger will *not* be
pleased. Keep in mind that you don't get paid until AFTER you get back, so
you're encouraged to behave..."

"Yeh, Navy. Spent about 13 years with 'em. Had a minor problem with a
superior [derisively] officer, and was forced to muster out. Seems its
against regs to beat the crap out of the brass, regardless of how big
an arsehole they are. 

You're an engineer too? So am I. It sounds like we might be seeing a
bit of each other on the Alcyon. You got any idea what the mission is
all about? I just saw an ad for wrench monkeys and being a bit down on
my luck decided to apply for anything.

Now, how about that drink?"

"Yeah, I s`pose your right, Judge. You don't mind me calling you Judge
do you? If nobody has a better suggestion I might go rustle up a litre
or two of flem and practise saying the Admiral's name. Nanaaa...
Naadan... Danahd... Maybe if I try swallowing my tongue!"

"If you like, or you can just call me Richard. Not that I mind being called
 Judge. (grin) Now, now, be nice to the Admiral. Apparently he's just
 retired from the Darrian Navy; a rather impressive record from what I have
 heard. (pause) It *is* an interesting name, isn't it?"


Dan looks down the passenger area for the other passengers.  Seeing them
he walks over and introduces himself.  "Hi Daniel Silvmane." he says.

My name is Jordan Kalhoun Azani. 

Jordan is a rather tall and lithe person. He is a mix of different
races known on Terra. His father is Irish German, while his mother is of
Saudi descent. He has naturally tanned skin, appearing somewhat like
leather. He has cool grey eyes and black hair. He stands at about 6'2"
and weighs about 185 lbs.

Much T. B. Dezired here.  Prefer to be called MT.  Born in a small rural 
town, suprised everyone by going to college.  After "fumbling" my way 
through 12 years, I joined the research team at the Univ. of Oreheer.  
After serving for 6 terms, I was "convinced" to go into early retirement.  
Sort of took the oppurtunity to "further the advancement of science" in 
my own labship.  You'll notice she's not here...

I would like to become a member of the Physical Science team.  My main 
interests lie in the discovering of new life/civilizations/artifacts/etc.


This unlikely crew spends the next few hours pretty much in the dark,
intellectually, about the Alcyon and her mission, their individual
parts in her mission and just when she'll arrive.

Dan passes the time reading technical manuals and generally being
gregarious.  Others simply sit and stare, work on their notes and
equipment and prepare to move home.

Presently, the lights dim twice, and some faceless voice indicates
that they are to prepare for departure.  Stars once again peep 
through the view screen and the Alcyon, highly magnified, comes
into view.

The Alcyon is a tetrahedron several hundred meters along each edge.
She flies with one pointed end forward, and a large engine exhaust
sticking out the opposite face.  Two scout ships and a merchant
ship ride at the other three vertices, and a central core of
somewhat inhabitable ship connects the bridge at the nose with
the engine/cargo compartment.  Most of the volume of Alcyon is
collapsible fuel balloons, now about half full.

As she nears, two figures crawl along the surface of the hull, 
apparantly inspecting it.  Shortly, two more figures and a small
sphere appear, tether themselves to the Alcyon, and move off
several hundred meters.


==================================================================

Chapter 2:  Alcyon in Hyperspace 

As the muster breaks up, Bhyarrvouf makes the rounds of the various Team
Leaders: first he speaks to Dr. Abuko and the Engineering team, then to
Lazer Farouk of Security, then Etienne de Mer of Transport, then to Dave
Sokoku and Mac Witfield of Physical Science and Generalisms. Lastly, he
walks over to Dr. van der Merwe, and salutes crisply.

"I'm in your hands, Doctor. When do we begin?"

Doc drifts away toward a viewport, from which his Swiftsure-class scout is
visible. A perceptive observer sees Christian stare out into space and at his
ship. A fist clenches, his face tightens into a mask of mixed emotion. As
quickly as the memory arrives it recedes, leaving Christian to stare out into
space once again, his body relaxing. A regretful shake of the head, and he
heads off for his stateroom.



Turning, Bhyarrvouf accepts Blaine's congratulations with a nod. 
"Appreciate it, Zben.  But I can't say I was exactly LOOKING for this job; 
I got drafted, truth to tell.  Seems Fearless Leader was getting a little 
wired standing all the Command shifts himself!"  He laughs, and takes off 
his earclip and hands it to Blaine.  "Here you go.  I'd like that retuned 
and given back before we dock with the transport; you'll find me on the 
Bridge."  

He then goes to an intercom, punches up the Engineering line, and says, 
"Bhyarrvouf here. I'm going to canvass the crew for other people who're 
qualified to stand watch in the Drive Room.  As of now, we're hearing from 
Dr. Abuko, Kimball Redd, myself, Zben Blaine, and, hrr, oh, kakh, what's 
the name of that kid who thinks he can fly a gravbike-- oh, yeah, Severin!  
Anyway, Frieder should be semi-awake any day now, but I haven't seen chop 
nor haunch of Ralf. Is he around?"

The intercom comes alive.

 A groggy, gravely sounding Aaron haut Frieder's voice is nearly reconizable.
"Ohhhhhh, my heaaadddd!!!.....  Now I know why I HATE the morning after
 a party....  Heading down to see the Doc for hangover pills, I'll attempt
 to pull myself through the results of the party.  After the pill takes
 effect, I report to engineering for assignment."


The engineering contingent heads off down the passageway toward (of course)
engineering.  They are deeply involved in a discussion.

"How about determining what it is for, finding all the other probable
beacons and see if there is any way we can take control of them. I bet that
those who placed them here will be surprised if they suddenly stop transmitting
at a, for us, suitable moment?"
   <Johann Abuko>

I agree that we should find all of the other beacons.  I strongly disagree 
about waiting for a 'suitable moment' to shut it down.  Unless we can discover
who planted the things (and there could easily be more than one party 
responsible), we CAN'T know when a 'suitable moment' has arrived.  The buggers
[probably varelse for those of you who have read 'Speaker for the Dead'] may
have long since learned what they wanted to know and ceased to listen in on us
by the time we decide a 'suitable moment' has arrived.

Sorry to harp on this subject, but I feel strongly about it.
     <sorry - I lost the source>


"Mr. Farouk, Mr. Jonson: This is Bhyarrvouf. I want one of you to supervise
Mr. Blaine from Engineering as he takes our little stowaway apart and gets
some pertinent facts on who left it here and what it does. He's the best 
commo man we've got-- and that means we can't afford to lose him. That's why
I'd appreciate a Security man with Demolitions training supervising him, to
keep an eye open for boobytraps. I'd also like Hammer to contact me, and show
me where the thing was found.... and I may ask one of you two gentlemen to pull
on a vacc suit and join me out on the hull for a little walk, later. Out."
     <vouf>

A few moments later, 'Vouf makes a long general announcement caling for
check ins, engineers, pilots, and all manner of plans.  He signs off:

"That is all. Have a spiffy day, and remember, 
 nobody ever died of a hangover."



As they make their way down the hall, they pass the Doctor and a pair of
medical robots carrying bodies to or from their cabins.  With the help of the
medical robots, he puts the comatose characters into metabolic stasis (i.e.
like a low berth, but not using a low berth cryogenic system) and hooks each
up with a monitor which sounds an alarm in the Aurora if their condition
begins to deteriorate.

As part of that process, he takes a complete scan as well as tissue and
fluid samples from each, for intensive analysis. After all the people are
taken care of, he and any assistants will scour the Alcyon and other ships,
taking air samples at various points and samples from the various fluid
dispensers, galley stores, and any private stashes used in the party.

When that is complete, Christian and his helpers will set down to the
task of analyzing the samples (thank God for computers!) and correlating
the results, looking for known pathogens and other common factors.


- - ----------
Meanwhile, up forward on the bridge:

Etienne, to the best of my knowledge the transport will send over a shuttle
with the new crew. We present a kakh awful spectacle as it is, and until we
have a better idea of who survived last night's shindig I'd rather not have
anyone leaving the ship. Stupid reasoning, perhaps, but the less splitting
of effort we can maintain before things start moving again, the better.

We cannot count on the Paladin for standard operations until Mr. Nayduz graces
us with his presence. Similarly, since DeAith is about to be unloaded with
severe absence sickness, we have a gaping hole there as well. In the meantime,
please reassign Mr. Schmud to where he might be more useful: I have decided to
follow Dr. van der Merwe's belief that the Aurora will run with him alone at
the controls under normal circumstances. I will see to emergency work on the
Aurora in the event it becomes necessary, as the regular Engineering crew is
busy enough with the Alcyon and the small craft.


The intercom comes to life again:

   "This is Bishop.  One of you clowns now owes the INN one thousand,
   one hundred and sixty three credits for fried 'bot components.  I've
   finally got AGNIS functioning again.  I'm not sure what got poured in
   thru the dorsal breather, but it smells like beer."  There's a pause,
   and then he continues, "I still haven't figured out how the culprit
   managed to get past the 360 degree holo-pickups, but I'm beginning to
   suspect your tree-rat, Abuko.  Anyway, whoever did it, this had better
   not happen again."


Johann sounds somewhat amused when he calls Adrian on the commonet:

   "Sorry, Bit dosn't drink beer. If your bot had been disassembled and 
   spread over the ship tucked away in corners everywhere, it would have 
   been his style, but not pouring beer in the fan."

   "By the way, we didn't finish that interview, did we?"


Etienne continues:
  
Nishu and I will be on the bridge while we are rendezvousing.  I plan on having
all passive sensors operating at full.  Should I do the same with the active
ones?  It could easily be construed as a hostile move and I have no idea how
jumpy these people are going to be. 

Merde alors, but I hope these new people can be trusted.  We definitely need
them.



And back in engineering:

I'm on my way, Zben. Be there in two shakes." 
   <shake shake>
"OK, what's the story?" says Bhyarrvouf, striding into the storeroom where
Blaine and Jonson are gingerly poking at the beacon. 

Blaine turns to him and says, "OK, here's the scoop, as I see it. This little
jewel was made way over in the Solomani sphere, and is quite sophisiticated.
It could easily cover an entire system, but thats about it. To get that power,
it had to lose something, and that was longevity. It had about two
transmissions worth of power, and is dead now. So, my assumpstion, and its
just that, is that someone used it to squib some data off just before we
jumped. I would suggest a thorough search, `cause if there's one of these,
there might be more. As far as the robot dissasembling it, hey, sure. As long
it has the dexterity, and I can observe (from a safe distance)."

Bhyarrvouf does something Blaine's never seen him do before: he grinds his 
teeth together. "Samshkakh knaervarrgh grrrrrrRRRRRRROURRRGH!" There's a loud 
*clang* as he punches a nearby bulkhead with an armored fist. "Too little, too 
late! Why the kakh tsakha wasn't this rustbucket searched BEFORE we jumped?!"

About this time, Dr. Abuko comes in, with Leadfoot following along obediently 
behind him. 

Vouf says, "Hello, Dr. Abuko. Told you I'd be easy to find. What'd you want to 
talk about?"
 
Abuko replies, "Not talk about, listen to. General curiosity about the
beacon/bug(?) that Zben is investigating. Didn't someone at the party
speculate that there would be something like this on our ship?"

"Yeah," 'Vouf mutters to himself. "I did."

"Besides, disassembly of electronic things is within the aegis of the
Enginering department," Abuko grins, peering at the beacon from a safe
distance.

"If you want to sit in, you're welcome to," 'Vouf sighs. "I just wanted to 
stop by to tell Thul that if that kakh Bishop comes by to film that thing, he 
can-- Oh, Thul will know what to do...." At that, Jonson looks up and grins
evilly around the mushy stub of cigar in his mouth.

"Blaine says it's a Solomani one-shot, and that it probably did a squirt right 
before we jumped," 'Vouf continues. "Solomani! Just what we need right now."


<subdued click>

Etienne here Thule.
  For right now we are going to have to leave your ship pilotless.  We just
don't have enough qualified people!  I will patch all data from your computer
into the Alcyon's main display so that at least Nishu and I can keep an eye on
things.  I don't expect any problems, and the Talisman certainly shouldn't be
separating from the Alcyon but I didn't want you to worry when no pilot shows
up at reentry into normal space.

'voir


"I'll agree with you on that one, Etienne," 'Vouf sighs. "What with that damn
beacon...KAE!" His voice goes up a half octave. "Etienne! Has anyone gotten
any sort of trustworthy ID on those ships we're meeting? How do we know we're
not bringing a prize crew aboard?" He calms down a bit. "I'm jumping at
shadows. More of this and we'll all be at each others' throats! Think think 
think... data squirt before we jump, but rendezvous already in place for our
arrival. Possible? Unlikely. I think we're OK, but just to be on the safe
side I think we should take security precautions.... lemme talk to the Count
about that. I won't waste your time any longer. Tell Jonson we're shy a pilot
for the Talisman as of now, but that may change soon. Gotta go. Bye." >click<


*SOLOMANI*   SHEEEIT!  I haven't had any of my favorite targets in
my sights in a LOONG time!   

They probably think that this ringworld we are headed for is some
ancient shrine of theirs or some other nonsense...


UH-OH!  Just had an AWFUL thought... you don't suppose they are at
the ringworld already do you?  Like maybe this is some secret base
of theirs?  I know this is a foolish sounding thought, BUT!  I have
run into crazier things in my career and playing my hunches has
kept me alive this long...

'Vouf shrugs. "If they aren't, they aren't. If they are, they are. We can't go 
in any better prepared than we are now. No sense panicking until there's 
something REAL to panic about."

  "Uhuh" Johann does something of a grimace, "Guess we should have expected 
something like that with everything that goes on in the sectors around here.
Margaret and the Solomani are at eachothers throats all over the Hinterworlds,
They don't even bother to try to be discreete about it, media all over the place
have done long stories about the "Hinterwars".

  Wonder if there is any way to find out what the little sucker transmitted?"

Thul: "Why am I all of a sudden real suspicious of our pet newsie???"

'Vouf laughs. "Bishop's a nosy bastard, but he's no spy. He doesn't smell 
right for it."

  Johann turns to Zben, "Is it connected to something or is it autonomus?
It would be very unplesant to discover that it has recorded conversations or
something aboard and retransmitted them..."

  "Something that also strikes me is that we have to be *very* sure that all
ships that claim to be from Turnskaad Enterprises that show up really *is*
from Turnskaad Enterprises."


Thul: "That's for damn sure!"

     "Well, I have some good news and some bad news: 
      The good news is that we aren't being followed by 
      a Turnskaadian battleship."

     "Good! Eh, what was the bad news?"
     "It's a Solomani battleship..."



'Vouf: "I've got Etienne doublechecking the rendezvous ships. We can't let 
paranoia cripple us before we even get started. Let's not all start shooting
at shadows."

     Zben turns to Bhyarrvouf "`Vouf, would you know if anybody on
board has an Forensic skills? It's a long shot but finger prints, etc.
might be a help......."

'Vouf sighs. "I'll look into it, but I'll bet that little dingus is clean
as a stiff shot of ghtranga. They're not that stupid."

He says to Thul, "Deal with Bishop when he gets here to film things, Thul,"
and Abuko and Blaine would SWEAR they see him wink. He leaves the room 
saying, "Dr. Abuko, if there's nothing else pressing on you, you and Leadfoot
might want to help or observe the operation. I've got some other stuff to
check on; keep me or Count Ger posted. Preferably Count Ger."


     In the corridor, by the beacon, Zben turns to `Vouf to answer his
question.  "I don't see any obvious hard-links into the unit or jacks for
inputting. I'll check further, but my guess is it was self contained."



=================================================================
Chapter 4:  The Rendezvous


During the last few hours most of the rest of the crew has awakened.  
A few, however, have died mysteriously, and a couple are niether 
recovering nor worsening.   

The Alcyon returns to normal space on target.  (as described in the 
previous turn).  The docs prepare the patients for transport and 
put the dead ones on ice.  


<Please forgive this GM capriciousness.  I tried not to give away 
 anything that wouldn't have leaked anyway.>

Doc:  That's the story, sir.  Hammer is dead.  Nayduz is dead.  Horne
and Farouk have completely recovered.  Ian Thomas is almost ambulatory.
We don't know yet what caused this, but we are looking into it.

Ger:  "Just a moment."  Then, to the private channel - "Vouf, Thule, I
have Hammer's locker keys with me.  See me in my quarters now."

Shortly the others arrive.  "The good doctor was just expaining that
we have lost Hammer and Nayduz.  We will discuss in a few moments what
we want to do with the Paladin.  For now, here are Hammer's keys.  You
probably need to change the Armory locks.

"Doctor, thank you for the report.  You now need to get back to finding
out what killed them, and not all of us, and also whether the new
crewmwmbers are going to get it, too.  Dismissed."

As soon as he leaves, "Gentlemen, I haven't told anyone else, but I
also have areport from Dr. Morser.  Apparantly he IS the only sane one.
We were all asleep for five days.  The ship's logs all show us out of
it for that whole period, except Morser, who's out of it all the 
time anyway and never noticed.  So now you know, we really are 
coming out of hyperspace on time, no one jimmied the controls.

"'Vouf, after we're back in hyperspace, and we've de-loused (at least
electronically) everywhere, take a team and find out what's in the 
Paladin.

"That is all."
<end of GM-crap>


Zben and Thule prep for a complete hull search, and Adrian and JJ
prep for a photo-shoot of the rendezvous.

- - -----

Lazer, are you combat-zero-gee qualified? Beautiful! You're just the
man for the hull search. As a partner, I'll talk to Kimball Redd. He's
the guy who partnered with me on the shakedown check of the jump grid
before we left home: no one else knows the ship as well as he does, at
least on the outside. But do me a favor, OK? Keep an eye open for another
EVA team: JJ Horne is acting as lineman for Adrian Bishop, who's gotten
a flea in his fur about getting outdoors shots of the rendezvous....

Kimball Redd, please report to the main airlock and Mr. Farouk. I hate
to tell you this, Redd-man, but you're gonna have to search the hull
again, this time for stuff that shouldn't be there. OK?

'vouf



"Dave, JJ? This is 'Vouf. Listen, your man Bishop wants to do an EVA to film 
the rendezvous. Should be a short, low-risk mission, but I won't let him go out
without a buddy to secure his tether and haul him back in if he gets into
trouble. You're his fellow Team members: would either or both of you have an
interest in going out with him? I'd prefer Vacc Suit-0 at least, Vacc suit-1
or Zero-G Ops 0 even better. I'd assign someone like Redd or Severin, but we're
bogged down in Engineering right now."


I have some experience with a VACC Suit, had to live in one on my last job.
Can't say I like them but do know which end is up. Tell me when this little
space walk is starting and I will be there.

JJ out.


[ON THE INTERCOM]

"Ah yes, this is Manfred Werner.  I am thinking that I could
 be of some small help in engineering.  I will be there shortly."



Bishop steps out of the fresher a few minutes later, dressed in the tailored
vacc suit, carrying the bubble helmet under one arm.  He reaches for a mesh
gear bag, from which he retieves a small handheld remote control unit.
Swinging the unit in the general direction of the deactivated AGNIS unit,
laying on the table, he presses a contact.  Several lights on AGNIS begin
to glow and the sphere slowly rights itself and floats off the table, coming
to a stop about 2 meters in the air.
    "AGNIS, slave mode one-alpha." commands Bishop.  The sphere obediently
falls in behind his left shoulder, trailing about a meter back.  Bishop
clips the hand control to his belt and then grabs the mesh bag and a gear
harness setting next to it.
    "Let's go find us some PLSS units, a grav-car, and an airlock, in
that order!" he grins.  Then he heads out the door and down the corridor
at a brisk gait, obviously expecting JJ to follow him.

      AGNIS is a basketball-sized sphere of dull black (plastic?
      metal? ceramic?) which floats silently, about 2 meters off 
      the deck, behind Bishop's left shoulder (unless he tells it
      to do otherwise).  It's surface bristles with holo-image and 
      audio pickups, plus 2 short, thick antennas which protrude ]
      like a pair of mismatched fingers, from the top, off to one 
      side.  Extending from the center of the underside is a snap-
      clip, which looks as though it's meant to carry something 
      additional.  AGNIS stands for 'Anti-Grav Network Imaging System'.



JJ is dressed in a tailored VACC SUIT, that was issued when he signed on.
If fits his small wirery physique well, but he seems ill at ease in
the suit.
He is carrying his helmet and is chewing on a half-smoked, foul smelling
(even unlit) cheroot. When Bishop comes out of the Fresher he asks.

"Now let me get this straight, all I have to do is make sure that you
don't float away, right. I mean we ain't expectin' any trouble are we
cuz if we are I will check out my SMG and we will do this thing right!
Ya see the last time I spent some time in one of these things I almost
got myself killed. I don't plan for that to happen again! BTW, you be
amazed at what a mining laser can do to a persons chest, anyway that is
another story. So when do we get this show on the road?"

With that he falls silent.



About 20 minutes after he broadcast his message, Doc Werner sees 
Adrian Bishop in a corridor.

"Oh ah yes.  Herr....  Um excuse me, could you kindly tell me where I 
 could find Herr Fritz in engineering?" 


Judging by Bishop's pace and Horne's hustle to keep up, they are obviously
men in a hurry.  Bishop is very fidgety, almost hyperactive in manner.

    "You mean Severin?" asks Bishop, "I think he's down in engineering."
He starts off down the corridor again, and then stops cold.

    "Oh, you mean, 'how do you get to engineering?'", he says.  "OK, go
down this corridor until you get to grav-lift 12.  Take it down to deck
3 and head aft.  Turn right at corridor K and left at corridor 6.  Then
grab the first person you see and ask directions.  Gotta go!"  He spins
back around and trots off, with a somewhat irritated (by now, he's gotta
be :-)) Horne in hot pursuit.


Zben, near his cabin (on the Talisman) stops dead in his tracks, with a 
glazed expression that rapidly degenerates to a grimmace. Turning, he 
takes off at top speed toward the Alcyon's bridge, while hastily keying 
into the engineering channel...

     "JoHann?? I mean, Mr. Abuko? Zben Blaine, the village idiot here!
Something just dawned on me! Could you meet me on the bridge ASAP??
Yes, It may be Very Important! And if you see `Vouf, drag him along!"
     He keeps moving towrd the bridge, muttering to himself. If anyone
listens they hear him saying "...sheeeet, it wasn't tight....."


Adrian and JJ are almost run down by the mad rush of engineers.

"'Vouf!  Waitamminit!" Bishop shouts.

'Vouf catches himself up short at Bishop's yell, turns around in a whirl,
and straight-arms Bishop at arm's length before he can take ten steps.

"Adrian," he says in a dangerously quiet voice, "There isn't any emergency.
I'm just in a hurry to get to the various other things I have to do before
I can get some sleep. If you want a newsworthy tidbit, here it is: we may
have a recording of what the beacon broadcast, picked up on our sensor
logs with the other space chatter. If that's the case and we can decode it,
we may know a bit more about our enemies before we arrive than we do now.

"All we DO know is that the beacon was a Solomani device. If you want a picture
of it before it's taken completely apart, get down to the examination room
as soon as you can; I've told Thul Jonson to expect you. And if you ever
bring me up short like that for a news story when I'm doing something 
really important....." He leans into Bishop's face, and Horne can just hear
his snarl. "I'll piddle on your leg."

And with that, he's off again, yelling over his shoulder to Horne, "Good luck
keeping up with him! I hope you're wearing armor-- he gets shot at a lot!"


Bishop watches 'Vouf hurry down the corridor, and then very pointedly looks
down at his foot.  He grits his teeth and says, "I just don't know HOW
he does it.  He KNOWS I'd rather be shot."  Then he shudders.

Horne waits until Vouf gets out of ear shot.
 
"Testy little guy ain't he, Solomani huh... hmm can't trust em, any of em
not too fond of Vargr either course you can always depend on em to be
unpredictable" With that he chuckles to himself.

"Ah..., yah." Bishop agrees.  He pauses for a moment and frowns in thought.
"Hmmm.  You know, I think I smell a tree-rat in this mess."

"Well what is it to be outerspace or that beacon thing. You get shot at
alot, well maybe I should go get my SMG from security. I had to be a good
little boy and turn it in like they asked."

Bishop suddenly comes to a decision and heads towards the examination room.
"Co'mon," he shouts, "Let's check out the bug before Thul sends it to bit
hell.  Space can wait.  It'll still be there when we get done."  As he
hustles down the corridor, he adds, "Don't worry about your SMG.  No one
has ever hit me yet!"  He makes absolutely no comment whatsoever about
previous companions during such incidents.



And, back on the bridge:

      Zben waits in the bridge for Johann and `Vouf to appear. When
 they do [assuming they do 8-|], he leads them to a (hopefully) quiet
 corner by the sensor suite.

  Johann arrives some half a minute after Vouf. "Sorry" he says, "I had to
put the bot back to work down in engineering. Now, what was it that you
wanted to talk about?"

     "Sorry for the rush call, but I just realized something that has
been stareing me in the face. That beacon BROADCAST a signal! It
wasn't a tight beam! Therefore our automated sensor recording system
Should have picked up something, even if it was timed to coincide with
one of our standard transmissions. Therefore, if we do a computer
check of those records, we MAY have a recording of the transmission,
and the exact time it took place. Now, I can't believe anyone is dim
enough to broadcast an unencoded message, but it could give us some
very interesting information. With your permission, I'll start a
search, although someone with better computer skills than mine might
be a help."
    With that he settles back with a small grin....(and a small gin)

(beer in the oven and gin on the bridge, what is this ship coming to???:-)

  Johann pauses to let this sink in.
  "Now that's what I call a lead! Good Work, Zben!" he grins, but then something
strikes him "I hope the computer saves the records this long, since we isn't at
R-alpha yet it might have been set to only remember a week of sensor data. Well,
its the best we have and it can't hurt to try it out."

"Blaine," 'Vouf says calmly, "You have just earned your pay for the week."
He turns to leave, saying over his shoulder, "You and Dr. Abuko can probably
find someone with the cyberskill to look at what you find; try Ralf, for a
start. Don't bother Redd; he's on EVA with Farouk looking for another bug.
I'll inform the Count." Without waiting for an answer, he's gone at a dead
run.

"I know my way around computers." Johann tells the rapidly dissappearing Vouf
over the comlink. (Why shout when you have equippment that can do it for you?)
"I'll help Zben. Besides, there's precious little else on engineering that I
*can* do..."

On the way out Vouf almost tramples Aaron haut Frieder who is on his way to 
the bridge.


Aaron Frieder: I arrive on the Bridge just in time to hear the 
conversation.  As 'Vouf runs out the door, with me dodging aside, I 
yell, "I'll take care of the computers.  You keep me informed of your 
progress.  Also, I plan to eventually take a look at the Beacon.  I 
have a few things to test out on the probe."  With that I head over to 
Zben to work with him on the computer.  "Don't worry, Zben.  I KNOW 
what I'm doing."

Abuko: "I think there is enough people here to take care of the computers.
We'd use our resources better if you'd take a look at the beacon to find 
out what frequency it used so we don't have to go through one week of raw 
data not knowing what to look for. That is assuming that it didn't transmit 
in jumpspace, but I think that we can rule that out unless we got the spy-
version of keystone kops on our hands." he smiles.



Not distracted by the sudden re-emergence of high-intensity debugging,
Lazer and Kimball head on out the main airlock, with extra air, and start
their hull search.

Bishop and Horne arrive in engineering and find it virtually deserted.
Leadfoot, the robot informs them that the engineers took the "device"
with them to the bridge, and will probably dismantle it shortly after
the crew transfer is complete and refuelling is being done.  So the
two hustle on outside to record the rendezvous for posterity.

As they reach position, ISR Leviathan uncloaks.  Leviathan is what her
name implies.  She dwarfs Alcyon and blocks out a full eigth of the
sky.  A robot probe detaches from Leviathan with a leader.  Presently,
it docks with Alcyon and drags over a fuel hose.  Similarly, hoses
are dispatched to Anslinger and Frost, the Turnskaad scout.

Anslinger comes alongside and opens a large iris door for a hanger.
A shuttle moves out and docks with Alcyon.  After several minutes,
it returns to Anslinger, and the doors close.

Refuelling takes several hours.

============ end of turn ==============================
The new crew is aboard, add them to your character/mail lists.

Now do what you wanted to do while in normal space...

Richard
- - -- 

-------- TML Message #1708 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1708
From: "Mark F. Cook" <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
Subject: Re: Gnu Traveller
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 90 14:58:45 PST

YAY-YAASSS!!

> Rob and Dow Reider have made some much-needed corrections and simplifi-
> cations to the vehicle rules.

Really?  Did I miss these?  I don't remember them.

>                               Dow and I are looking into replacing the
> utterly worthless and nonsensical trade and commerce rules with better
> ones,

(best Madeline Kahn accent): "Well, it's about time!!" (those of you
who have seen the movie 'City Heat' will no doubt recognize the quote.)
I've been beating my head against a wall trying to differentiate freight
from speculative cargo, and I'm about really to head for the liquor cabinet.

>       and I'm rolling up my sleeves (with the possible assistance of Dow
> and Paul Reilly, a General Relativist in my Trav group who will probably
> join the TML soon) and fixing the glaring physics errors that make so
> much of Traveller starship design difficult to swallow, without harming
> the game balance too badly. (no Jump-7's folx)

Good!

>                                                I'm probably going to see
> if I can talk Iain Fogg and Mark Cook into helping me redo the weapons
> skills system in a convincing manner, and I'd like to tackle the combat
> system at some point and add a bunch more weapons to the canonical list....

Well, I (for one) feel flattered at the offer, not to mention keenly
interested.  I accept.

Actually, as you may have guessed (based on earlier TML postings), my
weapon designs and overall combat system bear little resemblance to
standard MT.  I find that the RTG Cyberpunk "Friday Night Firefight"
comes closer to real life than any other combat system I've seen  (Just
ask anybody who's been shot at and had to shoot back, then argue with
me about 'realism'.)

> It may even turn out that the existing Traveller Universe will be no good
> for the resulting rules, in which case (sigh) I'll just have to create a
> new one. But hopefully the end result will be a rules set that one can use
> and not feel vaguely cheated by in one respect or another. 

Assuming that we constrain ourselves to the Jump-6 limit,  I can see no
reason why the existing Shattered Imperium wouldn't be amenable to almost
ANY rules re-write we'd care to make.

> Please post to the TML if you'd like to see a Gnu Traveller,

Definitely.

> and if so what rules you'd like to see fixed,

Well, IN ADDITION to all the ones mentioned above, I'd like to see a
re-write of the aircraft design rules in COACC.  Scott Kellogg has
already pointed out how ludicrous the aircraft displacement values are.

Also, the robot rules need to be re-written, or at least greatly enhanced.
In the sections under locomotion (for example), no mention is made of
top speed.  I also can't find any rules which detail how long a given
power supply will last, only how much power it puts out.

> whether you'd be willing to write or help write new rules,

Absolutely.

> and whether or not you'd be interested in a new Universe to run them in.

Well, only if it's as  rich and detailed as the current Shatterd Imperium.
I don't worry about rules too much (what I don't have, I can fudge), but
a detailed, internally-consistant history is a LOT of work!

> (Also, the Gnu people will probably get mad if we keep using that term,
> so we could use a catchy title for this... GigaTraveller? Nah.)

How about TRAVELLER++.  :-)
                (If you're not a C programmer and don't get it, never mind.)

        Mark F. Cook

USMail: User Interface Technical Support
        Hewlett-Packard - Interface Technology Operation
        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330

INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com
UUCP:     {cmcl2, harpo, hplabs, rice, tektronix}!hp-pcd!markc

-------- TML Message #1709 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1709
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 12:10:42 EST
From: grue@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au
Subject: Re: gnu trav

hiya,

With reguards to:

>Date: Tue, 6 Nov 90 11:11 EDT
>From: METLAY@vms.cis.pitt.edu
>Subject: (1694) Gnu Traveller: a modest (hah) proposal


>needed corrections and simplifications to the vehicle rules. Dow and I are
>looking into replacing the utterly worthless and nonsensical trade and commerce
>rules with better ones, and I'm rolling up my sleeves (with the possible 
>assistance of Dow and Paul Reilly, a General Relativist in my Trav group who
>will probably join the TML soon) and fixing the glaring physics errors that
>make so much of Traveller starship design difficult to swallow, without harming
>the game balance too badly. (no Jump-7's folx) I'm probably going to see if I
>can talk Iain Fogg and Mark Cook into helping me redo the weapons skills system
>in a convincing manner, and I'd like to tackle the combat system at some point
>and add a bunch more weapons to the canonical list....

>
>Looking to see if anyone's interested,

I am interested, I have been thinking about doing the same thing for a while
now and didn't because it would be an awful lot of work.  If a group of us
got together and did it it might be possible.  Keeping things consistent
could prove interesting...

I'd able willing to help with the starship design (which has become a little
bit of a speciality with me, mostly due to the design aid program which is
looking good and stable at the moment).  I'm not very good at the physics
(and never have been) but I am quite good at analysing the effects of designs.
I am a statistics honours graduate among other things so analysing stuff is
one of the things that I'm good at.  I would like a chance to fix the large
starship weapons systems (e.g. Disintegrator, Particle accelerator).  And, I
would happily make the starship design program conform to any new system
devised, though typing the data might take a longish while.  I was already
thinking seriously about filling in the holes in the existing tables so
everything becomes more like the communicator tables.

I'd probably not be much good for handling the trade system except as an after
design analysis phase --- I never got much past basic traveller's trade system.

As for modifying the weapon skills and such, I'd be more of a hinderance than
a help.

As for anything else, I'd be happy to try.



							Pauli
seeya

Paul Dale               | Internet/CSnet:            grue@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au
Dept of Computer Science| Bitnet:       grue%batserver.cs.uq.oz.au@uunet.uu.net
Uni of Qld              | JANET:           grue%batserver.cs.uq.oz.au@uk.ac.ukc
Australia, 4072         | EAN:                          grue@batserver.cs.uq.oz
                        | UUCP:           uunet!munnari!batserver.cs.uq.oz!grue
f4e6g4Qh4++             | JUNET:                     grue@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au

-------- End of TML Messages --------


-------- TML Message #1710 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1710
Subject: History question (Strephon's Assassination)
Date: Wed, 07 Nov 90 14:35:45 X
From: Iain Fogg <iain@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au>


I was discussing the events leading up to the current state of the
Shattered Imperium with a new player yesterday. In particular, the
controversy surrounding Lucan and the murder of Varian. Official
documentation states that there was a security camera(s) in the Twin's
apartment, but that the recording medium (tape, holocyrstal, whatever)
was colocated with the camera (in other words, the monitoring equipment
was not directly linked to a central security station). The question
is, why not? On face value, the turmoil within the Imperium can be
traced back to this very important oversight; had there been adequate
security measures we would know who killed Varian, and the rebellion
may never had occurred. 

Thoughts, interpretations?

Iain.

-------- TML Message #1711 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1711
Subject: Re: Gnu Traveller
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 90 13:38:30 X
From: Iain Fogg <iain@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au>


In message (1694) metlay proposes GnuTraveller:

Great idea! Bloody marvellous in fact!

I'm more than happy to get involved in a rationalisation/rewrite of the
whole of the combat system (if other people think it needs improving).
I also think that a team should try to revamp the character generation
system. For a start, doing things like having extended character
generation for all careers and races.

Iain.


-------- TML Message #1712 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1712
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 90 22:06:07 -0900
From: George William Herbert <gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Gnu/Giga Traveller...


I emailed metlay shortly after seeing the initial posting, volounteering to 
work on rewriting COACC and a lot of the other vehicle/ship design stuff.
I have a rework of COACC allready conceptually done (more or less... 8-)
and have some very detailed ideas for expansions of the current system for both
more utility and reality.  Metlay let me on the group 8-) so now i guess
it's sort of official...

Anyway, one thing that I told him and that I want to suggest to the rest of
you too: It's not that hard to sell GDW a good article or supplement section
these days.  If you REALLY want to make a difference, work with the online
group, but try to get GDW to make the rewrites/changes official...and pay
you for the privelege 8-)

- - -george william herbert
gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu  MegaTraveller Vehicle Design FTP Archive Maintainer

-------- TML Message #1713 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1713
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: sorry... :(
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 7:45:18 MET

  Shame on me for accidentaly remailing the *entire* TML message. I didn't 
even notice that I had done it until I saw it in the digest.
  I will try my very best from letting this happen again, and I hope that it
didn't cause anyones mailbox to overflow.

- - -bertil-
- - -- 
Capitol/Core (????-???????-?)                                 312-1120
A navy spokessophont today revealed that the publication 'Fighting Ships of
the Shattered Imperium' has been determined to originate on Terra/Solomani Rim.
"It's bound to be an insidious Solomani plot to disrupt the Imperial Navy's
 acquisition programs. The navy is amazed that som many loyal citizens fell for
 it. After all, there is a statement on the back of the book that clearly 
 states that it was printed in an provice on Terra!"

-------- TML Message #1714 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1714
Date:     Wed, 7 Nov 90 23:26:58 PST
From: Orcinus orca <jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu>
Subject:  vehicle designs on the TML

Someone suggesting sending summaries of vehicle designs to the TML
and putting the complete file at an FTP site.  

I agree.  The vehicle designs are great and all, but having to wade
through nearly every one at 1200 baud on a modem is not much fun :-(

The only problem I can think of is that some people might not be
able to use FTP.
- - --
John H. Kim
jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu
uunet!jarthur!jokim

-------- TML Message #1715 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1715
From: "Mark F. Cook" <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
Subject: Help!! Trade & Commerce nightmare!
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 90 23:40:23 PST

Well, I've put it off for as long as possible, but I've finally had to
bite the bullet and dive into the Trade & Commerce section of the MT Ref's
Manual.  It's even worse than I thought!!  Help me out here folks, 'cause
I've got a TON of questions.  (Well, a couple Kilos, at least :-)).

Starting with Part 5 "Freight and Cargo" (pg. 50), does the AVAILABLE
LOTS table apply to Freight, or Cargo, or do you use it once for each?
Also, how do you determine lot size for freight?  The note that refers
to "Lot Size" only mentions cargo.

Next comes the REAL mess: cargo cost.  As nearly as I can tell, the rules
which govern the determination of cargo cost (to the speculator) on pg. 53
MAKE NO ALLOWANCE FOR CARGO TYPE.  This means that a 100 Kl. lot of ferrous
metal ore costs the same as a 100 Kl. lot of electronic parts, which costs
the same as a 100 Kl. vehicle, which costs the same as 100 Kl. of TL-15
mud!  It's all based on volume (or weight), and modified by trade code,
tech level, and source world starport type.  What a crock of SH*T!  When
I saw the spec. cargo entries on pg. 13 of "Knightfall", my initial
reaction was, "Yah!  That's how it's suppose to look!"  Unfortunately,
you can't get there from here.

What's a ref to do?  (BTW, I need answers BEFORE the middle of next week.
Otherwise, James and Richard's new characters in my campaign may be standing
in the unemployment line.  ...and I think one of them bites!! :-))

        Mark F. Cook

USMail: User Interface Technical Support
        Hewlett-Packard - Interface Technology Operation
        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330

INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com
UUCP:     {cmcl2, harpo, hplabs, rice, tektronix}!hp-pcd!markc

-------- TML Message #1716 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1716
From: Dave Johnson <D.M.Johnson@newcastle.ac.uk>
Subject: GNU Traveller
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 13:49:28 WET

        Yes Great Idea,
                       Work on it. I am sure that the MT world would love it.
For me the rules have to be winged in most cases. The TML has helped and I am
sure that the GNU traveller would help as well.

By the Way, Thank you for all the vehicle designs, Now I won't have to suffer
the process of designing vehicles that my players are begging for.

Dave



- - --

+------------------------------------+----------------------------------------+
| David M. Johnson                   | Janet : D.M.Johnson@uk.ac.newcastle    |
| c/o Electrical and Electronic Eng. | ARPA  : D.M.Johnson@newcastle.ac.uk    |
|     Merz Court                     | UUCP  : ...ukc!newcastle!D.M.Johnson   |
|     Newcastle University           |                                        |
|     Newcastle upon Tyne            |                                        |
|     NE1 7RU                        |                                        |
+------------------------------------+----------------------------------------+
| 'There are only three just wars in American history: The American Civil War,|
| World War II and the Star Wars Trilogy,                                     |
|       Peace Dudes'                                                          |
+------------------------------------+----------------------------------------+


-------- TML Message #1717 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1717
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 10:15 EDT
From: METLAY@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Subject: The New Traveller rules


Gang, let's please stop calling it "Gnu" Traveller. I really do need
better suggestions as to a name, and only one person has suggested one
as of now: "Rebel Traveller" (which ain't bad, BTW). My Gnu-using friends
are jumping up and down on my case already, so let's change it quick. 

Why is a name so important? Because I've been fielding enthusiastic letters
all day, and it looks like this thing is going to be a going concern very 
soon. But I am NOT set up to archive and redistribute material for this
venture, which will eventually be moving large files and possibly graphics
and charts as well; I need a volunteer to help with the grunt work. Must
be willing AND ABLE to collate, redistribute, store and format this stuff
we collect and edit into distributable form, for free. If no one volunteers,
then the New Traveller rules will not happen, because I just can't do them
myself. Keep those notices coming if you want to get involved, folks: I'm
setting up a list of who wants to do what.

metlay

PS. My own vote: TDR (pronounced "Teedeeyar" in one word). Traveller Done Right.
PPS. Robert Dean, by saying "I vote for Gnu Traveller," you have cast the only
vote that counts in electing you to membership in the vehicular design team.
Congratulations. |-> And no, we never did find out where the Annic Nova came
from. Sorry.

-------- TML Message #1718 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1718
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 10:42:07 EST
From: Dan Corrin <dan@engrg.uwo.ca>
Subject: Traveller++

I am in favour of this sort of project. I presume that it will include
software as it will be computer oriented.

At GenCon this summer I was talking to Joe Fugate about various things. One
that I wanted to do, was to produce new pages for the ones that had
errata on them. Thus one could seperate the pages from the MT books
(assuming this isn't already done), and just substitute the new pages
for the old ones.

He mentoined that the manuscript that was sent to GDW was editied by them
before production (as would be expected) but that several changes
and/or errors were introduced. I am trying to get the original
manuscript in order to create these new pages. 

At our site we have a nifty desktop publishing system in which I have 
duplicated the appearance of the MT pages. I'll put an example page
in the archives this weekend so those of you with net access and a
postscript printer can see for yourselves.

					-Dan

Dan Corrin, System Manager, Mechanical Engineering, UWO, London, Ontario
TML FTP site coordinator:  dan@engrg.uwo.ca   ...!watmath!julian!engrg!dan

-------- TML Message #1719 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1719
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 11:41 EST
From: Ministry of Silly Minds - Open for Business <GDS3939@ritvax.isc.rit.edu>
Subject: Re: weapons skill redefinitions


    I have been reading the comments on redoing the weapons skills, and I
    have a point to bring up.  Does getting a skill with a weapon also give
    you the capability to perform maintainence on it?  If so, then you have
    to keep the skills seperated.  If not, then there should be a
    Gunsmith Cascade skill for the various types of weapons(archaic,
    revolvers, semi-autos, SMG's, MG's, Gauss, Laser, Plasma, Fusion,
    Neural, etc).  This is something that must be considered if GNU
    Traveller gets the go ahead.

    Also, I'm in favor of GNU Traveller, and I'm willing to help.

    						Jedi Master

- - ---
\  _		Gary Schreiber			| Kelson Alaric
 \ |		241 Oakdale Dr.			| Barrony of Thescorre
  \|		Rochester, NY 1461		| Aethelmearc, EK
EMAIL: gds3939@ritvax.bitnet OR gds3939@vax{a,b,c,d,e}.isc.rit.edu
	OR gds3939@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
OTHER: gds3993@ultb.isc.rit.edu

-------- TML Message #1720 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1720
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 10:54:16 -0700
From: FELLOWS STEVEN B -5 CR <sfellows@slate.mines.colorado.edu>
Subject: Shipping Questions

I think the idea about GnuTraveller to be really keen.  I do however agree
(with whoever it was) that the character generation should be left alone.
I agree that more skills are needed and finer granularity of some skills.

A big thing that should be changed is the Trade and Commerce as well as
information of cargo shipping.  The players in my campaign acquired a ship
(bought a used ship at auction, but with stolen money) and decided to go into
the cargo carrying business, so that they could afford the incidentals:
bullets and hospital care.

The cargo carrying information in MegaT and 2300AD was really poor and there
was little information about running a ship.  I also did not see anything
on insurance, costs of operation, and furthermorem, what do you charge for
cargo.

So, I did some research and found a pretty good source on today's shipping:
all forms of shipping:land, air and sea.

Some of the information I found out:

Insurance rates are 6% of the purchase cost of the ship per year, and they
do not go down.  Insurance does not cover acts of war or piracy.  Insurance
can be bought for war and piracy but in some cases it could be 100% or even
more than the value of the purchase price of the ship.

Rate charges:  Charges are listed by the metric tonne.  BUT, and this is a
big but: It is "understood" that this really means either metric tonne or
cubic meter, whichever is greater.
   Charges are very often set by committee, a group of shippers decides
that the rate between New York City and London is 7 dollars per tonne.
This is based on an average number of days of travel, and is the same
regardless of the travel.

There is no set time for delivery, but since the carrier is not paid per
day it is in his best interests to get it there as fast as possible.

It is possible to rent a whole ship, and in that case the charges and
stipulations can be anything.  However, most often this is not the case
because cargos people want to send are generally not that big.


****
The person I asked is my father, who is now retired from the shipping
industry.

He is very happy to answer questions regarding shipping and has asked that
I send him my questions written down instead of asking him by voice when he is
paying for the phone bill.  I think he is also intrigued by the possiblities
of space shipping.

So, why don't y'all send in your questions and I will compile them into a
letter and send them to him.  He is also familiar with dealing with customs
(and various types of customs officials around the world).

Subjects that could be asked (and I am trying to think of many myself)
are:
would a shipper ever buy a cargo to sell elsewhere, how risky is that?
mercantile exchanges (including the Baltic Exchange in London)...
who runs the loading and offloading of a ship (I think he mentioned that 
 carrier usually pays for it himself unless special arrangements have 
 been made)?
Any Trade or Commerce questions...
etc.

Of course , I realize that this is now and in the future anything could be
different, but it is a good basis to start with , and is a realistic system
to use.  What information I gleam from him , I use in my campaign.  Also, I
will try to remember to have him give it for both ships and airlines, as
well as trucks (if he has the time).

You can ask any question you want, including anything about illegal
activities (which might not get an answer, but who knows!  :)   ).
Unfortunately, he does not have a computer or net access so this will have
to be through the US Post office.

Go ahead and post them here, or you could send them directly to me, but
then probably I will get a few duplicates.  Also, some questions might
generate more questions from others.  I will probably mail the letter the
weekend after next, if not sooner.

Steven B. Fellows
sfellows@slate.mines.colorado.edu

-------- TML Message #1721 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1721
Subject: PBEM admin stuff (sorry folks - it never ends :-)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 7:40:43 PST
From: Richard Johnson <richard@agora.UUCP>

Sorry about the turn screw-up.  I mailed it Monday morning --
to James, not the list :-(  Called him last night, you should
have it by now :-)

New Characters (or re-instituted)

Alliara  amoss@batata.huji.ac.il   (Marc Volovic)  
Charyn   jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com  (James T. Perkins)

and and address change...
Ralf     scratch@unix.cis.pitt.edu   (Steve Owens)



-------- TML Message #1722 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1722
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 09:25:18 -0800
From: "Ted Kim (Random Dude" <tek@lanai.cs.ucla.edu>
Subject: Re: GigaTraveller

I say go for it!
I am particularily interested in these areas mentioned so far:
	one unified vehicle design system for everything
	new trade and commerce system
	physics problems

> and whether or not you'd be interested in a new Universe to run them in.

This is an interesting possibility. But I think it should be secondary
to the main goal of fixing up the rules. Many GMs have their own
homebrewed campaign backgrounds anyway (though neat ideas are always
welcome). 

Hopefully, though, the rules will not be changed so much that the
"official" universe could not have happened. I think many will still
want the option of being able to use the NEW and IMPROVED rules with
"official" materials.

On another topic, what ever happened to the SYSGEN mailing list?
Or more importantly the SYSGEN programs?

- - -ted

Ted Kim                           Internet: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu
UCLA Computer Science Department  UUCP:     ...!{uunet|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!tek
3804C Boelter Hall                Phone:    (213)206-8696
Los Angeles, CA 90024             FAX:      (213)825-2273

[TML Admin here (see, I do read these things!).  The two topical mail
sub-lists, Trade & Commerce and Star System Database, died out a year or
two ago.  It seems to be hard for large groups of people to stay
committed over months on a task or topic.  Should anyone wish to
volunteer as a "Topic Coordinator" and mini-mail-list admin, I'd be
happy to give it my official blessing.  It looks like metlay may be
requesting this once he can find some deeply committed people.  I
suppose one way to judge commitment is to examine whether a person has
had a consistent history of posting meaty material to the TML -- James]

-------- TML Message #1723 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1723
Date:    Thu, 8 Nov 90 13:21 EST
From: PHB100@psuvm.psu.edu
Subject: Gnu Traveller

I'll vote for it.  I may even use it!  :)  In fact, I'll go so far as to say
I'll help (as much as I can)!
>
>How about TRAVELLER++.  :-)
>                (If you're not a C programmer and don't get it, never mind.)
>
How about Concurrent Traveller.   ;+)

>        Mark F. Cook
>
>USMail: User Interface Technical Support
>        Hewlett-Packard - Interface Technology Operation
>        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330
>
>INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com
>UUCP:     {cmcl2, harpo, hplabs, rice, tektronix}!hp-pcd!markc
>
- - -------

Disclaimer:  This is me.  Do I sound like anyone else?

Paul Baughman          PHB100@psuvm.bitnet

-------- TML Message #1724 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1724
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 15:22:14 -0500
From: "T. L. Hayes" <al646@cleveland.freenet.edu>
Subject: Gnu Traveller



     I think the concept of Gnu Traveller is terrific.  I would be more 
than willing to contribute to the project in any way that I can.  I 
have a few concerns though.  Every role playing game is unique, not
because of the system of rules used but because of the background detail.
The flavor and soul of Traveller are its background and history as well
as its game system.  While rewriting the game system is a great idea it
can also destroy much of what it is about Traveller that attracted all
of us to it and to this list.  I think what we are proposing is a huge
project that I find very exciting.  There are numerous and obvious places
where Traveller needs to have its system patched or replaced but the
patches or replacements need to "fit" into traveller without massive 
restructuring of the other pieces.  I guess what I'm saying is "if it
ain't broke, don't fix it".

     With that cautionary note firmly in place here is a partial list
(off the top of my head) of places that need to be looked at for possible
patching or replacement:

     1) Man-to-man combat (with and without weapons)
	I like combat systems that have a feel of realism but realism
	like in the movies.  Combat should be fast and furious. Players
	should be on the edge of their chairs not boredly looking up
	charts and tables.  The current system is interesting (using
	interrupts) but I'm not sure I like it.

     2) Trade and Commerce
	I think this one is obvious.  Star Trek has an interesting
	system for dealing with this aspect of the game including 
	playing the stock market.

     3) Internal Consistency
	From the talk on the list, the vehicle design system suffers
	from this problem.  Does anything else?

     4) Physical Consistency
	While SF-RPG games by their very nature must violate "known"
	laws of physics, it is best if they are done as cleanly as
	possible.  The recent Black Globe discussions are an example
	of the problems of not thinking through the physical ramifications
	of a "high tech toy".

     And I am sure there are others.  Two areas that I like they way
they are are:
    
     1) Psionics
	Not very powerful or very abundant which can quickly turn a
	good SF game into a fantasy game with psionic-magic!  I
	know because I made this mistake once.  It was fun for awhile
	but...

     2) Character Generation
	The addition of some truely alien races would be nice (I have
	a couple that I could contribute if anyone is interested) but
	the basic system is fairly good.  This is a case of "it ain't
	broke".  Its not the best system I've seen but there's really
	nothing "wrong" with it.

     Anyway, these are just my humble thoughts on things.  As I said 
earlier, I am very excited about Gnu Traveller and would be happy to
aid in any way possible.

Tony L. Hayes

PS Maybe it could be called ... Voyager ... or maybe not.



- - --
T.L.Hayes                  |
MIT/Lincoln Laboratory     |
Lexington, MA              |

-------- TML Message #1725 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1725
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 15:50:56 EST
From: Jonathan Clark <jhc@ulysses.att.COM>
Subject: Re: weapons skill redefinitions

Gary Shreiber asks:

    Does getting a skill with a weapon also give
    you the capability to perform maintainence on it?

In my system the answer is yes, a weapons skill includes the
training to perform maintenance on that weapon, which is in
accordance with current military training. It's the PCs
problem if they forget to actually do the said maintenance...

Jonathan

-------- TML Message #1726 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1726
Date:     Thu, 8 Nov 90 15:41:36 EST
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Vehicle Designs, Part 24

Hre are a few more in the on going series.  I'm not really sure that the
attack transport would be militarily viable, but...

- - -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

  Marcus Antonius class Attack Transport TL13
  
       The first Marcus Antonius  was constructed for a specialized mercenary 
  company.  Able to simultaneously drop a full platoon of jump troops, and 
  retrieve them when their operation was completed, the vessel was used pri-
  marily for commando type raids.  The cargo capacity of 111 displacement tons
  allows over 200 spare drop capsules to be carried, so the ship can engage in 
  multiple drops while operating independently if necessary.
  
    CraftID: Marcus Antonius class Attack Transport, TL13, MCr1510
       Hull: 1800/4500, Disp=2000t, Config=1SL, Armor=55F, Loaded=43659t,
             Unloaded=36902t
      Power: 120/240, Fusion=16200MW, Duration=30/90 
       Loco: 144/288, Maneuver=3, 72/144, Jump=4, Cruise=750kph, Max=1000kph, 
             Agility=1
       Comm: Radio=System*2, Laser=System*2, Maser=System*2
    Sensors: EMS Active(FarOrbit)*2, EMS Jammer (FarOrbit)*2,
             EMS Passive(Interstellar)*2, Neutrino Sensor (100kw)*2,
             High Pen Densitometer (100m)*2, ActObjScan=Rout,
             ActObjPin=Rout, PassObjScan=Diff, PassObjPin=Diff,
             PassEnScan=Rout, PassEnPin=Diff
        Off: Hardpoints=20
  
                    Missile=x05     BeamLaser=xx4
             Batteries        3                 4 
             Bearing          3                 4
  
        Def: DefDM+8
  
                 SandCaster=x04
             Batteries        4
             Bearing          4
  
    Control: Computer Mod7fib*3, 1*LargeHoloDisplay, 4*HeadsUpHoloDisplay, 
             60*HoloLink
      Accom: Crew=30 (4 bridge, 4 engineer, 8 gunners, 100 troops, 6 flight,
             4 command, 1 medical), Staterooms=75, Env=basic env, basic ls, 
             extended ls, grav plates, inertial comp
      Other: Fuel=11880kl (1 jump-3+30 days), Cargo=1500kl, Missile 
             Magazine=180kl (50b-r), Fuel Scoops, Fuel Purifier (24hr),
             SubCraft=4*20t Raptor Landers, ObjSize=Large, EmLevel=Moderate

  Pegasus Armaments LTX TL9
  
       The Pegasus Armaments LTX (Light Tank Experimental) was designed in 
  response to a solicitation by the Parlek Corporation Security Department for 
  a low maintenance, low manpower light armored vehicle primarily for starport 
  security duties.  The Parlek Corporation's idea of what that might entail 
  included a specification that the main weapon was to be capable of penetrat-
  ing a typical unarmored starship hull.  Long range weaponry was not a major 
  requirement, and it was determined that a 16cm gun/mortar system would be 
  suitable.  The control and sensor systems are adequate to eliminate the need 
  for more than one operator. Four prototypes are still being evaluated.
  
    CraftID: LTX, TL9, Cr326,521
       Hull: 2/5, Disp=2, Config=4USL+turret, Armor=25D, Unloaded=21.5t,
             Loaded=32.3t
      Power: 1/2, MHD=3.2MW, Dur=55hrs
       Loco: 1/2, Tracks, P/W=99, Road=183kph, Offroad=73kph
       Comm: Radio=Continental(5000km), LaserComm=VDistant(50km)
    Sensors: 2*Headlights, Adv Act IR, Adv Image Enhancement, Laser Sensor,
             AllWeatherRadar=VDist(50km), Ladar=Dist(5km), ActObjScan=Diff,
             ActObjPin=Diff
        Off: Hardpoints=1, Weapon stabilized, 100kph
  
                           Pen/         Max    Auto   Dngr
                Ammo  Rds  Attn   Dmg   Range  Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
   16cm Mortar  HEAP  80    53    16  Dist(9km) -      -      H     6
                 HE    -    24    20  Dist(9km) -     40      H     6
   7mm Gatling   -  10000  3/3    3   Dist(1.2) 7      -      H   1280
  
        Def: -
    Control: Comp0*1, CompLink*6
      Accom: Crew=1 (Operator), Seats=Roomy*1, Env=basic env, basic ls
      Other: Fuel=7.7kl, Cargo=0, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Moderate

  Elefant Model 2 ATV TL8
  
       The Elefant family of ATVs is produced by Abor Industries of Aki (a 
  wholly owned subsidiary of the planetary government), and widely exported to 
  the low tech level worlds in the Glisten and District 268 subsectors.  The 
  Model 2 version is for general offroad transport of people and cargo.
  
    CraftID: Elefant Model 2 ATV, TL8, Cr175,230
       Hull: 9/23, Disp=10, Config=4USL, Armor=8B, Unloaded=72.6t,
             Loaded=128.8t
      Power: 1/2, MHD=13.2MW, Dur=100hrs
       Loco: 2/4, Tracks, P/W=102, Road=176kph, Offroad=106kph
       Comm: Radio=Regional(500)
    Sensors: 2*Headlights
        Off: Hardpoints=1 (no weapon installed)
        Def: -
    Control: Elec*30
      Accom: Crew=1 (Driver), Passengers=9, Seats=Adequate*10, Env=basic env
      Other: Fuel=46.2kl, Cargo=10kl, ObjSize=Average, EmLevel=Moderate

  Elefant Model 1 ATV TL8
  
       The Elefant family of ATVs is produced by Abor Industries of Aki (a 
  wholly owned subsidiary of the planetary government), and widely exported to 
  the low tech level worlds in the Glisten and District 268 subsectors.  The 
  Model 1 version is suitable for extended wilderness travel.
  
    CraftID: Elefant Model 1 ATV, TL8, Cr211,640
       Hull: 9/23, Disp=10, Config=4USL, Armor=8B, Unloaded=73.8t,
             Loaded=126.3t
      Power: 1/2, MHD=13.2MW, Dur=100hrs
       Loco: 2/4, Tracks, P/W=104, Road=178kph, Offroad=106kph
       Comm: Radio=Regional(500)
    Sensors: 2*Headlights
        Off: Hardpoints=1 (no weapon installed)
        Def: -
    Control: Elec*33
      Accom: Crew=1 (Driver), Passengers=1+2, Seats=Adequate*2, Bunks*2, 
             Env=basic env, ext ls
      Other: Fuel=46.2kl, Cargo=6.3kl, ObjSize=Average, EmLevel=Moderate

  Elefant Model 1+ ATV TL8
  
       The Elefant family of ATVs is produced by Abor Industries of Aki (a 
  wholly owned subsidiary of the planetary government), and widely exported to 
  the low tech level worlds in the Glisten and District 268 subsectors.  The 
  Model 1+ version is suitable for extended wilderness travel in support of 
  exploration or prospecting efforts.
  
    CraftID: Elefant Model 1+ ATV, TL8, Cr300,440
       Hull: 9/23, Disp=10, Config=4USL, Armor=8B, Unloaded=73.9t,
             Loaded=128.7t
      Power: 1/2, MHD=13.2MW, Dur=100hrs
       Loco: 2/4, Tracks, P/W=102, Road=176kph, Offroad=106kph
       Comm: Radio=Continental(5000km)
    Sensors: 2*Headlights, Act IR, Pass IR, Light Amplification, Magnetic
             Sensor, Radiation Sensor, Radar=VDist(50km)
        Off: Hardpoints=1
  
                        Pen/          Max      Auto   Dngr
             Ammo  Rds  Attn    Dmg   Range    Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
   HMG        -   1000   6/3     3  VLong(1.5)  3      -      H     80
  
        Def: -
    Control: Comp0*1, ElecLink*8
      Accom: Crew=1 (Driver), Passengers=1+2, Seats=Adequate*2, Bunks*2, 
             Env=basic env, ext ls
      Other: Fuel=46.2kl, Cargo=8.5kl, ObjSize=Average, EmLevel=Moderate

-------- TML Message #1727 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1727
Date:    Thu, 8 Nov 90 13:31 EST
From: PHB100@psuvm.psu.edu
Subject: RE:  Mail traffic

>TML nightly     Wed Nov  7 20:32:55 PST 1990    Volume 11 : Issue 8
>
>
>I hate to sound like an old stick in the mud, but I have a suggestion to make
Make that 2 sticks in the mud...:)

>or the mail archives. Anybody agree with me? If not I'll shutup!
>
I agree.  Please, don't take this the wrong way, I do think the designs are
worthwhile, but they do get kind of long to wade through looking for the other
articles.  I *DO* want them available but say just a posting to the list giving
the names and classes of ships and then the full data on the vehicle designs
ftp site.

>Paul.
>
Paul 2.

- - -------

Disclaimer:  This is me.  Do I sound like anyone else?

Paul Baughman          PHB100@psuvm.bitnet

-------- TML Message #1728 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1728
Date:    Thu, 8 Nov 90 14:08 EST
From: PHB100@psuvm.psu.edu
Subject: Black Globes and such

>
>     I always assumed that the Black Globe was modeled on the Langston
>Field from Jerry Pournelle's Co-Dominium series.  It was black,

I prefer this version of the Globe too.  It doesn't give the user an "ultimate"
defense as traveller's version does.  If and when I ever use them, I will allow
overloading them as in the CoDominium.  If you recall, in the MOTE universe you
have to concentrate lots of offense in one small area to overload it, then the
field-stored energy is radiated inward to the generator itself.

Since the field is 3-dimensional, it takes energy to create it and MORE energy
to create the 'hole' in the middle for the ship to occupy (otherwise the field
would absorb the energy in the ship, and even in the crew's bodies).  Speaking
of which, I believe I recall a scene in MOTE where one of the crew works his
way through the field in order to look around.  It seems that when he came back
he was cold because the field had started to absorb the molecular energy of his
body.  Does anyone else remember this?  And does traveller's version allow
going through a Black Globe this way (albeit slowly)?


>running uphill in winter).  Also, the ship inside the field can poke
>antennae and such through the field so that they can have a look around
>
I think this is wrong.  sticking an antenna through won't do any good.
The field will just absorb the energy of the electrons coming through it.  I
believe they had to create a 'hole' in the Field and point their sensors
through it (which, of course, took yet *more* power :) in order to look around.

>     Okay, where has this taken us?  To the issue of material objects
>...
>course, if you use a sufficient amount of handwaving, you can violate
>physics all you want.  ;-)
> >
Since this is all hand-waving physics anyway, lets wave some more...;-)

- - - ------Subject Change:  robot fighters------
>
>  How about manning them with robots? The might not be cheap, but they obey
>orders without questioning, and without regards to the odds.

A friend of mine came up w/ this idea (hi Tim  ;-), Since robots don't need
life support, it cuts down on size, weight and complexity of the fighters also.

- - - ------Subject Change: cosmic rays ---------

>>
>>       Supposedly, NASA considers the secondary radiation generated by
>> cosmic rays hitting an armored hull to be more deadly than the cosmic
>> radiation itself.  An interview I saw recommended having 2 habitats

It is.  I recall reading that primary cosmic rays, if they hit a person, would
go right through without affecting him at all.  It is the secondary, tertiary
and lower rays cascaded by the atmosphere that do damage to humans.  However,
not being a Physicist, I admit that I may be recalling this incorrectly.

>
>(So no more Annic Nova drives...Metlay, are you listening?  Was there ever
>an explanation of where the Annic Nova came from?  (Not that I remember))
>
This sounds interesting....What is the Annic Nova (a ship I assume ;) and what
kind of drives did it have?

- - -------

Disclaimer:  This is me.  Do I sound like anyone else?

Paul Baughman          PHB100@psuvm.bitnet

-------- TML Message #1729 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1729
From: plb@violin.att.COM
Subject: Thoughts on Interstellar Economics & Trade
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 13:37:40 EST

Operating System: HP-UX A.B7.00 U
Organization: AT&T-BL, Red Hill System Administration Group (HRSAG)
Location: HR 2C119
Phone: (201) 615-4419
Return-receipt:
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL5]

Hi Folks,

It's been a while since I posted anything on this list, so I
thought I'd share some random ramblings with the list and see what
I can get stirred up.


I have been long facinated with the mechanics of interstellar
economics and trade within the Traveller/MegaTraveller/Traveller++
framework.  Indeed, many of my characters that I have played out in
other campaigns have been Merchants trying to make a fortune buying
and selling stuff, carting freight, and other such.  Some of my
inspiration comes from history and study of the China Clippers and
the tea trade as well as the novel Tai Pan. 

A successfull Merchant could easily become a rather influential
person in both an economic sense and politically, legally and
illegallly.  But, I'm getting off on a rabbit trail here...


I think we all agree that there are massive holes in the trade and
commerce rules of MegaTraveller, and the OT rules in book 2 are
somewhat lacking.  Other than that, I also feel that too much is
made of the influence of tech level on a planet's ability to trade
with other planets equitably.  There are a number of other factors
to be considered.

One factor that will always be a major influence in an economy's
ability to provide product for trade to other economies is the
uniqueness of that product.   For instance, in the China Clipper
trade, tea was a commodity that was only to be found in the
Orient.  Indeed, that was the major commodity in it's trade with
the rest of the world.   Bamboo and silks were second to that
commodity.

Another factor would be a percieved or real value.  For instance,
gems and jewels.   Sri Lankha continues to be a place to get good
quality gems in the modern world. 

The so called "Bannana Republics" provide produce to the US economy
on a grand scale.  We provide them with machinery and the like.

Keeping in mind the concept of trade here, how does one go about
paying for an economy's products?   The planet Balderdash-VII may
well have enough gold on the planet that it is considered fill rock
for paving projects. As a result that would be a poor choice of
basis of trade.  On the other hand the good people of
Balderdash-VII may have never seen tea before and consider it the
nectar of the gods and pay dearly for it.  

As a result of those differences in values between economies, I
would submit that in an interstellar trade community more barter is
done rather than exchange of hard currency.  Then again, I could be
all wet here.

Where is this text all leading?  I dunno!  I'm just rambling!  :-) 

Keep in mind I am not a student of economics and such subjects
usually baffle/bore me.  However, for Traveller game reasons I am
trying to get a handle on it. 

I have been for some time trying to come up with a set of tables
that would be used in the generation of worlds for a Traveller
campaign that would allow a ref to figure out what a world's major
economic products are and what it looks for in return from other
worlds.  With such a system, setting up trade routes and fitting a
set of reasonable explainations for a planet's settlement would be
fairly easy.

Comments?



- - -- 
- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Peter L. Berghold            |  AT&T, HRSAG, +1 (201) 615-4419        |
|INTERNET: plb@violin.att.com |  UUCP: {uunet!allegra|att}!violin!plb  |
|FAX: 1(201) 706-2004         |                                        |
- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------

-------- TML Message #1730 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1730
From: wrgate.wr.tek.com!oresoft.com!richard@reed.UUCP (Richard Johnson)
Subject: Digests
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 8:49:05 PST

If anyone has a digest burster that works on the TML, please
send me a copy (if you can), or let me know what such a thing
is called that I may locate one of my own.  After writing those
interminably long messages, I want to skip over them when I read the
list.  :-)

Richard Johnson
	richard@agora.hf.intel.com

[I wrote a new digest burster which has been submitted to the TML - it
will be in a later message.  I sent a copy of the posting off to Richard
so he ought to be okay now -- James]

-------- TML Message #1731 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1731
Date: Thu,  8 Nov 90 21:22:21 -0500 (EST)
From: William Dow Rieder <wr0k+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: (1705) Fixing Maneuver Drive Physics...

George William Herbert writes:

>I've been working on a fix for justifying the volume-based maneuver drives...
>It goes something like this:
>	Maneuver drives (not grav thrusters) don't actually produce thrust
>or force.  What they do is distort the local gravity field...not just play 
>with it like lower tech grav, but actually forms a gravitational gradient
>(volume of warped grav. volume is porportional to the maneuver drive
>volume...) around/within the ship.  The 'thruster plates' garbage can be
>explained away thru pseudogobbldeygook 8-) .  The Inertial Compensators
>take this field (which should be uneven, stronger closer to the drives...)
>and even it out so that everything in the ship doesn't fall towards the
>front 8-) .
>
>Comments? Suggestions? Let's hear 'em, i'd prefer not to have to junk the
>current rules, even if they need revision (yay metlay).

	Sounds like a reasonable explanation.  However, the problem isn't
how the drive works, but what it does.  Reactionless drive (by any means)
equals violation of conservation of energy.  There is no way around it - I
tried to find one, and was finally able to prove that it was impossible.
	I used to have a lot of trouble with traveller's rather cavalier
attitude towards physics, but I think an important distinction can be made.
Some of the physics violations are intentional, such as Jump drive,
reactionless
thrusters, etc.  These I am happy to accept as little black Physics
Nullifier (tm)
boxes attached to the relevant machinery, and are part of what makes the game
fun.  However, a lot of the problems seem to be unintentional, such as the fact
that you can get free energy out of a system consisting of TL15 fuel cells and
a fuel purification plant.  Those I want to fix - it will help make the
game more
consistent.
	Since some of the intentional violations will let you build perpetual
motion machines, etc, my favorite explanation for why they don't work is
a "nullifier interference field" generated by all those little black
boxes...:-)
	Have fun,

					W. Dow Rieder

 	When the only tool you have is a hammer, all your problems
start to look like nails...

-------- End of TML Messages --------


-------- TML Message #1732 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1732
Date: Thu,  8 Nov 90 22:22:58 -0500 (EST)
From: William Dow Rieder <wr0k+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: One giant leap...

	I recently acquired Challenge 45, which has the "One Small Step" rules
for pre-gravatic space flight.  Overall, I think it is a very good
article.  However,
one of the drives listed, the Fusion Rocket, is an amazingly good drive,
even for
higher tech ships (I believe it was taken directly from COACC, which I do not
have, so I won't hold it's peculiarites against the writer of the article).

	The stats are as follows:
Thrust: 195 tons	Mass: 4 tons	Volume: 1 kl
Fuel: 0.005 kl/hour	Power Output: 3.9 MW
Cost: 350,000 credits

	In the description, it is noted as having an advantage over grav
thrusters, but it "loses its last tangible advantage" when manuver drive
thrusters are introduced at TL 11.  I disagree.  On the contrary, it can not
even be fully used until the introduction of inertial compensators at TL10
makes it possible to use the high accelerations it can generate without
crushing the crew and passengers of a ship.
	For ships without armor, it is far superior to the standard manuver
drive.  For example, assume a 100 ton ship that masses 1 ton per kl (total
mass 1350 tons) wishes to increase its max acceleration from 1G to 2G.
The standard method is to add 3 thruster units and ~12 kl of TL15
powerplant to power them.  This has the following stats:

Fuel needed	Volume(kl)	Mass(tons)	Cost(KCr)
0.108 kl/hr	52.5		129		4,500

A Fusion Rocket with a thrust of 1350 tons, enough to increase the max
acceleration from 1G to 2G, has these stats:

Fuel needed	Volume(kl)	Mass(tons)	Cost(KCr)
0.035 kl/hr	7		28		2,450

As you can see, it costs less, masses less, takes up less space, and is
cheaper to boot! Oh, yes - it produces 27 Mw of power too...
The only reason I can see to use thrusters on an unarmored ship is to
be able to land and take off without scorching the surroundings.  My
suggested solution is to retain a 1G standard drive, and get the rest
of the acceleration from the Fusion rockets.
	Fusion rockets also make it very easy to get acceleration
over 6G: you can get 20G easily, 30G with some work, and 40G if
you really want it.  This makes it possible to outrun missiles, let alone
system defense boats, patrol cruisers and navy ships.  Figuring out
the exact performance can be a pain though, because you can get
up to a significant fraction of c within a couple of weeks if you want.
I even was able to design a STL starship that could cover 300 parsecs
in less subjective time than a jump-6 ship.  Of course, ~1000 years
will have passed for the rest of the universe, but it might be a handy
way to get away from the Rebellion...:-)
	Alas, this drive has a physics nullifier box (its easy to miss -
its by the fuel intake :-)).  To get 195 tons thrust for an hour with
just 5 liters of reaction mass would require a exhaust velocity well
in excess of the speed of light.  A more reasonable fuel rate would
be ~0.5 kl/hour, I haven't worked out all the details yet.
	Finally, a merchant ship design that I modified to use the
fusion rockets:

	Torch class merchant, TL 15

Item					Power	Volume	Mass	Cost(Kcr)
- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
200 ton hull, config 4SL,   armor 40G	-	[2700]	323.4	7,871
Powerplant - Fusion (0.225 kl/hour)		[450]	25	50	5,000
Jump-4 (10 units) (fuel 675)		-	135	270	30,000
Manuver-1 (4 units)			280	54	140	2,800
Fusion Rocket - 24,180 TT, fuel 0.62/hr	[483.6]	124	496	43,400
Comm. & Sensors   (standard)		0.9	0.7	0.5	1,652
Environ & LS    (not fuel - 1700 kl)		6.8	22.1	22.1	867
Inertial Compensators    (whole ship)	54	27	54	675
Grav Plates (not fuel - 1700 kl)		85	17	34	850
Computers - 3 x 3				-	12	3	11,400
5 Holo HUDs				0.1	5	2.5	500
Weapons: 2xPlaser,2xMissile,2xSand		504	27	18	3,000
20 Missiles				-	2	1	400
6 Small Stateroooms			-	162	12	240
2 Elow Berths				-	54	4	200
3 Airlocks				-	9	0.6	15
Fuel Purif. Plant (200kl/6hrs)		1	40	80	30
Fuel and scoops				-	1000	(70)	203
Cargo (~73 tons)				-	990.2	(990)	-
					---------------------------------
					931.7	2700	1511.7	109,103
Mass = 1511.7 tons empty, 1581.8 with fuel, 2572 with full load of
cargo	(x 0.8 =	87,282)
Spare power = 1.9  MW	Lasers can only be fired when Fusion rockets are on.

Acceleraton:	17.0 Gs empty
		16.2 Gs with fuel
		10.4 Gs with full cargo load
Endurance:	1 Jump, 30 days basics and 1G, 10.9 days combat
and full acceleration.

					W. Dow Rieder

 	When the only tool you have is a hammer, all your problems
start to look like nails...

-------- TML Message #1733 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1733
Date:     Thu, 8 Nov 90 22:58:44 PST
From: Orcinus orca <jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu>
Subject:  Re: Gnu Traveller--change a little more than the name

Wow.  Looks like you guys are trying for a massive overhaul.
I think you might not be seeing the forest for the trees.
You're not just limited to fixing GDW's rules and compiling
errata sheets to send to GDW for a paltry salary.  You
could (and only the first is serious):

1.  Start a subsidiary company that sells supplementary
Traveller material.  I know, that would take money.  But
it looks like you're changing a *lot* of things:  character
generation, weapons and combat, vehicle design, trade and
commerce.  You're also thinking of a new name, are considering
changing the Traveller background universe, and someone has
even mentioned desktop publishing.  There isn't much left
to change!  Well, you're keeping jump drives and the jump-6
limit :-).  Just keep in mind that instead of sending everything
you make up to GDW to publish as a one-shot deal (and one-shot
payment), you can put a little capital into it and keep the
money flowing in.

2.  Hostile takeover of GDW.
3.  Screw Traveller and start your own company with its
own Sci-Fi game.

P.S.  I have an uncle who owns a printing shop.
- - --
John H. Kim
jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu
uunet!jarthur!jokim

-------- TML Message #1734 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1734
From: Jim Cheetham <jim@oasis.icl.stc.co.uk>
Subject: Vehicle Designs
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 90 10:25:19 GMT

( Hi Paul ... see you've changed the .signature a bit ...)

Yes, about the vehicle designs ...
I admit that I'm not going to be using the Vehicle designs
myself, I'm in this game for the background stuff mostly.
As such, it's a shame to see so much bandwidth used in transmitting
them. However, it's not too difficult to skip past them
to get to other more interesting stuff.

Paul, I think that you can use MH on your machine - use that
to burst each message and then automatcially refile the vehicle
designs elsewhere - they all have a distinctive Subject: .

Other people - it's unlikely that you're using a pager that can't
search for text - usually using the / command. Just skip over
the stuff by searching for the next message - /From:

(Oh yes ... some of you use VMS ... errr ... not too sure about
that, been many years since I read mail on VMS. Perhaps someone
could suggest a method?)

Oh yes, people, can you make sure that the Subject: line is indicative
of what's in the messages? I don't have much time to spend reading
mail, and so I skip many articles based on their Subject: ...
Perhaps I miss the occasional worthwhile message, but it beats
reading reams of non-relevant (to me) stuff.

(Have I finished yet? Ah, yes ...)

- - -- 
A la prochaine ...
        _____               ____  _               _   _  
       (__ __) o  ______   (  __)( )_  ___  ___ _( )_( )_  ___   ______
      (____)  (_)(_)()(_)  (____)(_)_)(__=)(__=) (_)_(_)_)(___)_(_)()(_)
Jim Cheetham, jim@oasis.icl.stc.co.uk, BRA01 0344 424842 x3121 (ITD 763 3121)
              *********************** - as from December 1990 onwards,
              use jim@oasis.icl.co.uk due to corporate restructuring.
    #include <std/disclaimer.h> /* To keep the company lawyer happy */

-------- TML Message #1735 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1735
Subject: Annic Nova
Date: 9 Nov 90 12:07:38 MET (Fri)
From: Karl-Koenig Koenigsson <@wrgate.wr.TEK.COM,@sunic.sunet.se:kko@spodv2.uucp>

Hi there,
          I wonder if anyone might give me some hints on
prefab adventures, suitable for sessions about a day long.
I (and my players) don't have the time for Grand Campaigns,
but would like to get together once in a while and play a
little MT.

  If the adventures on the other hand are still small in size,
but can be set in a larger scheme, it would be preferable. This
means that I can keep a sense of coherence in the overall background
and still get away with one session a month... ;-)

  I have played the Annic Nova with them for a start. They liked
it, but most of all: I liked to GM it! It was an intrigueing
adventure, and gave excellent oppurtunities for good roleplaying,
as well as real problemsolving for the _players_ rather than the
_characters_ (Which is always a problem for the GM, as of which
you are probably already aware...)

  To rephrase my question: is there any adventures of the
same _kind_, ie. concerned mostly with rational thinking,
and deduction, rather than blasting the problems away. ;-)

  Thanks a lot!

+-------------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Karl-Koenig Koenigsson              | koenig@pelle.tdb.uu.se              |
|                                     | kko@pks.tds.philips.se              |
| All opinions stated are my own      |"There's something fishy in Denmark" |



-------- TML Message #1736 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1736
Subject: TDR (Traveller Done Right)
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 90 12:00:18 EST
From: Robert P Poole <tarquin@athena.mit.edu>

I think this is a good idea.  Suggestions:

(1) TDR is the name to go with.  GNU is out, because it is registered and
belongs to the Free Software Foundation.  (Yup, it's true, Richard will get on
our asses -- I mean Richard S.)

(2) As for "physics problems": I have to laugh.  How, pray tell, do you justify
hand waving?  Look, the Jump Drive is necessary for the game to work, and if
you insist that all messages are carried by starship courier, then the game
works well and balance of play is preserved.  I'm not sure why people are
flaming about Jump-7 ships.  As for the maneuver drives and such -- go ahead,
fix them if you must.  I'm a physics major, I could probably do some
computations in my copious free time and see how plausible some of these things
are.

(3) I am very much in favor of making this system work with the currently
designed MegaTraveller universe.  I think the shattered Imperium is a great
setting for adventures, and I like the alien races that are covered by MT
supplements.

(4) I suggest that TDR be written using TeX or LaTeX, since these text
formatters are (a) free, (b) nearly universal [if you don't have TeX or LaTeX,
you can get one or both from a variety of ftp sites for almost any machine,
including your garden-variety PC], (c) EMACS has a TeX mode built in, (d) TeX
and LaTeX are particularly good at formatting publication-quality text and at
formatting any kind of tables and mathematical formulas, both of which are
copiously present in Traveller.  I would even be willing to take tables that
people typed in and "TeX-ify" them.  Since previewers are available for just
about any machine, you can run your TeX document through TeX and then run the
previewer to see how good or bad it looks.  Granted, we could also use
MacIntrash WYSIWYG word processors, but let's face it, this short-circuits a
lot of UN*X users who would be using their resources.  Besides, there is a TeX
package for the Mac called TeXtures.  It's quite good.  (It's not free, but
that's what happens when you have to majorly rewrite software to run under a
fascist operating system.)

Well, that's what I have to add to the discussion.  Now all we have to do is
get organized.

Robert P. Poole                       tarquin@athena.mit.edu
46 Massachusetts Avenue               MIT Course VIII
311B Bexley Hall                      "We make Idols of our concepts, but
Cambridge, MA  02139                   wisdom is born of wonder."
                                         -- St. Gregory the Illuminator

-------- TML Message #1737 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1737
Subject: Starship designs and digest bursting
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 90 10:09:28 PST
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR>

These seem to have become quite an issue lately.  I think it has come up
because there is a lot of interesting discussion and a large volume of
starship designs at the same time.  Traffic has been very high this week
(gee, THANKS metlay :-).  Naturally, messages get jumbled up and
disordered on their way to the TML.

What Carl Rigney proposed is this: all the messages that have starship
designs are sorted to the end of the digest.  What do you all think of
this? Unless there is outcry or a better idea, I am hoping to implement
this before the middle of next week.  Personally, I don't find the
complete designs offensive, as long as they are placed at the end.

I should be able to tell if a message contains designs, by seeing if it
contains most of the strings gauranteed to appear in a USP: "Accom" and
"Commo", etc.

One of the downfalls of this scheme is that the archive message numbers
may not appear in serial order, due to the grouping of ship designs to
the end.  Instead, there will be (in serial order) all non-design
messages followed by all design messages.

As for bursting digests, I looked at Ted Kim's digest burster earlier
today.  I realized that it is more complex than it needs to be, so I
came up with one of my own.  It works great on the new-style digests and
archive bundles.

It is written in C and assumes a Unix-like mail environment, so those of
you using other sorts of systems will still be out of luck.  Still, you
would have something to start from, and I would hope you'd share the
results of your work.  It will be included in a later message to the TML
today.

James
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Traveller Mailing List Administrator	     James T Perkins @ Tektronix, Inc
traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com	     Beaverton, Oregon, USA
uunet!metolius.wr.tek.com!traveller-request  "Load Auto/Evade, Beowulf!"

-------- TML Message #1738 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1738
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 90 10:50:27 -0700
From: FELLOWS STEVEN B -5 CR <sfellows@slate.mines.colorado.edu>
Subject: Travelling and Cargo Cost example

Names:

I can't think of any one name that I like more than others, but my
votes go to:

Rebel Traveller, and TDR

Also, how about:  Travelling.


One thing I would like to point out:

  Someone mentioned that they could not understand why it would cost 
different amounts of money to ship different material.  100 tonnes of feathers
as oppossed to 100 tonnes of machine parts.  Well, in my system, it would cost
more for the feathers, since they take up more volume.

  Example:  the macinery takes up 10 cubic metres, but the feathers take up 
1000 m^3.     At 5 Cr/tonne/ly in my game, the feathers would actually be
5000 CR/ly and the machine parts 500Cr/ly   .  I take the greater of volume or mass.

Steven B. Fellows
sfellows@slate.mines.colorado.edu.



-------- TML Message #1739 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1739
Date:     Fri, 9 Nov 90 13:32:52 EST
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Thinking about Rules Revisions

I apologize for including the complete text of two previous messages here.


> From: "Mark F. Cook" <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
> Subject: (1715) Help!! Trade & Commerce nightmare!
>
>  Well, I've put it off for as long as possible, but I've finally had to
>  bite the bullet and dive into the Trade & Commerce section of the MT Ref's
>  Manual.  It's even worse than I thought!!  Help me out here folks, 'cause
>  I've got a TON of questions.  (Well, a couple Kilos, at least :-)).
> 
>  Starting with Part 5 "Freight and Cargo" (pg. 50), does the AVAILABLE
>  LOTS table apply to Freight, or Cargo, or do you use it once for each?
>  Also, how do you determine lot size for freight?  The note that refers
>  to "Lot Size" only mentions cargo.

     My interpretation of this, and I don't have my rule book with me, is 
that you would be correct in assuming that you are to use it once for each,
cargo, and freight.  Determine lot size for freight using the same table.  
This brings up a comment I made months ago.  According to older versions of 
rules that used essentially that same lot size table, the lot sizes for major
and minor cargoes were 1d6*10 and 1d6*5, not 1d6+10 and 1d6+5.  Since the
latter means that a typical 600+ ton ship can only fill its hold at a Pop9+
world, heading for another Pop9+ world, I have been using the former system.

>
>  Next comes the REAL mess: cargo cost.  As nearly as I can tell, the rules
>  which govern the determination of cargo cost (to the speculator) on pg. 53
>  MAKE NO ALLOWANCE FOR CARGO TYPE.  This means that a 100 Kl. lot of ferrous

You've grasped the rules firmly, I see, and discovered the thorns in the
process.

>  metal ore costs the same as a 100 Kl. lot of electronic parts, which costs
>  the same as a 100 Kl. vehicle, which costs the same as 100 Kl. of TL-15
>  mud!  It's all based on volume (or weight), and modified by trade code,
>  tech level, and source world starport type.  What a crock of SH*T!  When
>  I saw the spec. cargo entries on pg. 13 of "Knightfall", my initial
>  reaction was, "Yah!  That's how it's suppose to look!"  Unfortunately,
>  you can't get there from here.

If you have Knightfall, you can look up the quick fix system, not perfect,
subject to your own common sense modification, but available between now
and next week.
>
>  What's a ref to do?  (BTW, I need answers BEFORE the middle of next week.
>  Otherwise, James and Richard's new characters in my campaign may be standing
>  in the unemployment line.  ...and I think one of them bites!! :-))
>
>        Mark F. Cook

  ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: George William Herbert <gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu>
> Subject: (1705) Fixing Maneuver Drive Physics...
>
>
> I've been working on a fix for justifying the volume-based maneuver drives...
> It goes something like this:
>	Maneuver drives (not grav thrusters) don't actually produce thrust
> or force.  What they do is distort the local gravity field...not just play 
> with it like lower tech grav, but actually forms a gravitational gradient
> (volume of warped grav. volume is proportional to the maneuver drive
> volume...) around/within the ship.  The 'thruster plates' garbage can be
> explained away through pseudogobbldeygook 8-) .  The Inertial Compensators
> take this field (which should be uneven, stronger closer to the drives...)
> and even it out so that everything in the ship doesn't fall towards the
> front 8-) .
>
> Comments? Suggestions? Let's hear 'em, I'd prefer not to have to junk the
> current rules, even if they need revision (yay metlay).
>
> - -george

My suggestion for this is as follows.  I haven't got my rule book with me, so 
I'm winging it on numbers.  Suppose we did this:  The TL9 grav spaceship
drives are functionally equivalent to the StdGrav of the smaller vehicles
table.  I'd make the assumption that power consumption remains constant
per ton of thrust, but size and weight can be decreased in some sort of scale 
efficiency like the power plants.  This means that a Grav Maneuver unit
produces 650 tons of thrust for the 65MW of input power.  You could calculate
the minimum "economy of scale" size from the 1G drive for the 20 ton hull...
however many units that size takes up is where the crossover point for
advantageous size/weight would be.  Now, for a spacecraft of TL9-10, things
become very easy.  You merely calculate a thrust, same as always, and
divide by the LOADED weight of the vehicle to get an acceleration, same as
for any smaller grav vehicle.  If your thrust isn't equal to the local gravity
times your loaded weight, you can't land or take off from that planet.
Simple enough, right?

Thrusters would then work like this...they simply become improved grav units
that can work away from a gravity well by some double talk I don't want to
worry about right now.  The price you pay for this ability is increased power
consumption...70MW for what 65MW of grav would do. So 13.5 kl of thrusters
would weight 35 tons, consume 70MW and produce 650 tons of thrust not reduced
by distance from a planetary gravity well.  To keep everything consistent, you
can decree that the minimum size these things can be built at is the one that
corresponds to 1G for 20tons, and if you want to stick that (6kl??) unit
and the power to drive it in a 13.5kl vehicle, go ahead.  Multiply your
thruster units by 650 tons, divide by the LOADED weight of your vehicle and
you have your maximum acceleration.  If your thrust is less than your loaded
weight, you don't land on planets with standard gravity, and so forth...
Still simple enough, right?

If you actually do the calculations involved for a couple of examples of ships
with minimum armor, you'll find that the accelerations work out to be close to
the maneuver drive rating, which implies that that is how they were worked
out in the first place.

Anyway, that's a simple fix that will enable you to dispense with any really
bizarre explanations of why the drives were sized the way they are.

As far as inertial compensators go, I have always subscribed to the theory
that they are merely grav plates mounted in different directions, and tied in
somehow with the nav computer so as to provide a dynamic cancellation of
of the acceleration effects of the maneuver drive.  (e.g., if you have a
6-G maneuver drive burning full out at the tail, in normal physics, you will
be standing on the back wall at six times your normal weight.  If you have
1-G grav plates in the floor, you will feel a "gravity" that is the resultant
of the addition of the two vectors.  If you put six G grav plates at the nose,
that vector cancels the 6-G maneuver drive vector, leaving you with a
comfortable 1-G toward the floor.  Did everyone follow that without the 
diagrams?  )  This probably means that the power consumption of the 
compensators should be tied to the size of the maneuver drive, and should
usually be more than the power consumption of the grav plates.

AGILITY: A NEW SUBJECT

     Pursuant to the above discussions on maneuver drives and inertial
compensators, I'd like to say a few words about the game's concept of agility.
To be brief, it's another crock of...spoiled butter.  The only use of agility
in the game is in combat, where it represents the difficulty of hitting the
ship with a weapon, and I'd like to look at that for the moment.  Agility
is tied to the ship's mass, which is good...it represents the difficulty
of shoving it around in space, so that's rational.  It is calculate by
"dividing the excess energy by the UNLOADED weight of the ship etc.".  I'd
prefer to see this based on the actual weight of the ship, which is usually
something between the loaded weight and the unloaded weight, unless you have
a cargo hold full of metal ingots...but that's not the problem. The first
problem is one of definition.  What is excess energy?  I've always figured
that it was what was left after everything EXCEPT THE MANEUVER DRIVE was 
powered, since it seemed that agility should be a function of maneuver drive.
That being the case, I'd also always assumed that there was a cap on the
energy used for agility equal to the maximum that your drive used.  (If your
drive consumes 65MW, I'd hate to see what it looked like after you ran 2000MW
into it to increase your agility...if those 2000MW aren't going into your
maneuver drive, then you should be able to buy "agility increasers" of some
sort, but that is a can of worms I'd rather not open just now.)

     The second problem is that, as far as I have ever been able to tell,
normal inertial physics are supposed to hold true in the Traveller universe
in everything not related to Jumping.. Right?  So the MT definition of 
agility as "ability to change your heading" is meaningless.  If I have a
ship with a movement vector --------------------------------------->
like that, and I start up my maneuver drive <- like that, except at a small
angle, my vector, which is what people are using to guess where I'm going, to 
put unfriendly laser beams etc in my path, is going to change very slowly.
Some nebulous ability to change my heading  (What, the direction my ship is
pointing??? If I rotate 180 degrees about my present course, I'm still 
flying very fast tail first across the universe) is not going to prevent
somebody from predicting my course well enough to get a missile within 
intercept range.  

As a first approximation, I'd say that your "agility" rating ought to be 
equal to your acceleration rating, as figured above where it depends on
mass, minus whatever loss of acceleration you have by shunting power to your
weapons instead of your engines, PERHAPS modified by some measure of your
rotational inertia if you want to be a completist (a spherical ship should
be able to rotate faster to bring the maneuver drive to a new heading than
a needle shaped ship.)

Now, all of this brings up another question regarding space combat...do energy
weapons actually aim for an enemy ship, or does the firing vessel attempt to
predict the location of the target, and then spray the beams around the 
estimated target locus in an attempt to get a random hit(s) by volume of fire?
In either case a "realistic fix" to the combat system should account for
speed of light lag on detectors (at a greater distance the future position
of the target becomes more uncertain as your data is more out of date) and the
relative speeds of the two vessels (again, adds more uncertainty to the 
location of the target.  The difference would be that in the first case, you
could gain something in defensive ability by using thrust of whatever source
to shove you from "side to side" along your base vector to throw off the 
enemy's prediction programs, or for that matter simply pulse your maneuver 
drive in random power levels at short intervals, (Say 1.5 to 2.0Gs in a 5 
second pattern--better have inertial compensators or the spacesickness will 
be fierce ;-)  ), but in the second case that would be less
effective, more like trying to dodge a shotgun blast after it has had time to 
spread. In either case, a missile that retains maneuver capability for the
final interception would be less affected by "small" movements on the part
of the target.  Missile hits, though, should possibly be strongly affected by
relative motion...if your missile is closing at 6-G with a high speed on a
vessel headed straight at it and also accelerating, it would have less
time to use it sensors and drive to effect the final interception, and would
therefore probably be more likely to miss.

HULL ARMOR, CONFIGURATION AND DAMAGE POINTS

     A few more ideas to think about for the vehicle system redesign.  As
Scott Kellogg pointed out, the results you get when you apply current 
technology to the spacecraft minimum armor requirement of "40" can be
ludicrous.  Why not do away with it entirely?  It would involve the following
changes to the overall game system.  The spaceship combat system is based
on the High Guard system, with the old armor levels 0-9+ being replaced by
the new armor levels 40--, with each old "1" equal to "3" new for combat 
effects.  At a minimum, it would need to be reconfigured with a new base 
value other than "40", at a maximum be replaced by something fully compatible
with whatever ground vehicle combat system is adopted.  An absolute minimum 
for spacecraft would still need to be established, whether it was based on
armor needed for radiation resistance, structural strength needed to withstand
the effects of the maneuver drive (in which case it could be a sliding scale...
if you wanted a "space only" craft with a max thrust of .005G, you wouldn't 
need much strength), or structural strength necessary to contain a 
one-atmosphere pressure of breathing gas, or some other measure...say heat
shielding minimum for reentry.  ('Course grav vehicles can reenter very 
slowly--as long as it isn't against a planetary defense system.).

     As it stands now, an airframe configuration buys you maximum streamlining,
but we should also be able to set it up so that you can build a grav vehicle
using the new equivalent of the Vehicle Design Sequence to use dynamic lift
provided by wings or a lifting body hull.  If your 2G combat speeder had wings
to hold it up, it would be a 3G combat speeder...(Which reminds me obliquely,
that grav vehicle performance should really be recalculated based on local
gravity, just as aircraft performance should be recalculated based on gravity
and air density.< and composition, to be extremely technical>).  Naturally,
I expect this would cost more, but it wouldn't be that tough to add.  
Contrariwise, at low grav-available tech levels, it might be advantageous for 
some purposes to put in a grav module just large enough to hold up a craft, and
then use jet engines, or even propellers, for thrust.  Also, we should 
possibly consider setting things up so that streamlining has more of an effect
than being a top speed limiter.  If I push a brick with 10 lbs of thrusts,
it won't got as fast as a cone of equal weight pointed the right way. I think
this could be done simply enough by having a little table, no more complicated
than the ground pressure vs P/W to calculate off road speeds.

     I think vehicle damage should be based on something more than volume...I
realize that it was done that way for simplicity's sake, but perhaps a rating
based on unloaded mass would do better.  You need to calculate that number
anyway, and I think that it would be a more accurate "One number guess" of
the comparative damage capacities of, say, a hot air balloon and an M1 tank.

Enough for now.

Rob Dean


-------- TML Message #1740 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1740
Subject: burst - undigestifier program
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 90 13:59:07 PST
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR>


This program splits a TML digest (or a TML bundle, or any forward- or
digest-format message) on its input stream and seperates it into its
component messages, and mails them back to the invoker.  this may sound
preverse but it's way cool! I know, I didn't think much of it until I
tried it.

>From a mail program that lets you pipe to a program with a "|" command,
you can do: "| burst", for example.  If you can get at a message from a
shell command line, you can do "burst <digest-file".  Have fun folks.

Make sure you read the comment header so you know exactly what it does,
prior to running it.  If you are not on a unix system, with any decent
editor you should be able to extract the source code (all source lines
begin with X).

James
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Traveller Mailing List Administrator	     James T Perkins @ Tektronix, Inc
traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com	     Beaverton, Oregon, USA
uunet!metolius.wr.tek.com!traveller-request  "Load Auto/Evade, Beowulf!"

#! /bin/sh
# This is a shell archive.  Remove anything before this line, then unpack
# it by saving it into a file and typing "sh file".  To overwrite existing
# files, type "sh file -c".  You can also feed this as standard input via
# unshar, or by typing "sh <file", e.g..  If this archive is complete, you
# will see the following message at the end:
#		"End of shell archive."
# Contents:  burst.c
# Wrapped by jamesp@metolius on Fri Nov  9 13:53:11 1990
PATH=/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/ucb ; export PATH
if test -f burst.c -a "${1}" != "-c" ; then 
  echo shar: Will not over-write existing file \"burst.c\"
else
echo shar: Extracting \"burst.c\" \(5352 characters\)
sed "s/^X//" >burst.c <<'END_OF_burst.c'
X/*
X * NAME
X *	burst - burst a mail digest file and resend the messages to user
X *
X * SYNOPSIS
X *	cat digest-mail | burst
X *
X * DESCRIPTION
X *	Burst takes a MH-style digest or forwarded mail message on
X *	stdin, and seperates it into the individual internal messages.
X *	It then mails all the mail files back to the user running burst.
X *	It knows to ignore the leading digest summary and trailing
X *	digest end marker, as well as empty messages.  It also knows how
X *	to remove "- " from the beginning of "escaped" lines that start
X *	with "- -".
X *
X *	By defining the BURSTUSER environment variable, mail may be sent
X *	to a different user than the person running the burst program.
X *
X * ENVIRONMENT
X *	BURSTUSER, USER, LOGNAME - these hold the user's login name for
X *	the purposes of resending the mail.  If BURSTUSER is not defined,
X *	USER is used.  If USER isn't defined, LOGNAME is used.
X *
X * COMPILATION NOTE
X *	Define -DHAS_MKSTEMP when compiling on systems which have
X *	mkstemp() and no mktemp().
X *
X * AUTHOR
X *	James Perkins, jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com, 9 Nov 1990
X *	This is shareware; file is freely distributable and modifiable.
X *	I assume no responsibility for use or misuse of this program,
X *	nor do I declare it fit for any particular application.
X *
X * HISTORY
X *	Inspired by a program by Ted Kim, tek@cs.ucla.edu.
X *	Burst was written for members of the Traveller Electronic Mailing
X *	List; contact traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com for details.
X *
X * BUGS
X *	Burst assumes a Unix-like mail and execution environment.
X */
X
X#include <stdio.h>
X#include <string.h>
X#ifndef HAS_MKSTEMP
X#include <sys/file.h>
X#endif
X
Xextern char *getenv();
Xextern char *sprintf();
X#ifndef HAS_MKSTEMP
Xextern char *mktemp();
X#endif
X
Xtypedef int bool;
X
X#define TRUE		1	/* for bool types */
X#define FALSE		0	/* for bool types */
X
X#define TMPNAMELEN	60	/* max temporary file name length */
X#define BUFLEN		256	/* max line length handleable */
X#define CMDLEN		256	/* max length for mail system() call cmd */
X
X#define TMPNAME		"/tmp/burstXXXXXXX"	/* tmp file to use */
X#define END_STRING	"End of "	/* first line of end of digest msg */
X#define MAIL		"/bin/mail"	/* mail program to use */
X
X/* macro to see if the beginning of a string matches another string */
X#define STRMATCH(s, t)	(strncmp((s), (t), strlen(t)) == 0)
X
X/* forward declarations */
Xchar *tmp_file_name();
Xbool extract_message();
Xvoid mail_file();
X
Xmain()
X{
X    char *tmp;
X    FILE *fp;
X    int mailable;
X    char *user;
X
X    if ((user = getenv("BURSTUSER")) == NULL)
X    {
X	if ((user = getenv("USER")) == NULL)
X	{
X	    if ((user = getenv("LOGNAME")) == NULL)
X	    {
X		(void)fprintf(stderr,
X		    "burst: can't find USER or LOGNAME envariable\n");
X		exit(1);
X	    }
X	}
X    }
X
X    while (!feof(stdin))
X    {
X	tmp = tmp_file_name(&fp);
X	if (fp == NULL)
X	{
X	    perror(tmp);
X	    exit(1);
X	}
X	mailable = extract_message(stdin, fp);
X	(void)fclose(fp);
X
X	if (mailable)
X	{
X	    mail_file(tmp, user);
X	}
X
X	(void)unlink(tmp);
X    }
X}
X
Xchar *
Xtmp_file_name(fpp)
XFILE **fpp;
X{
X    static char tmpname[TMPNAMELEN];
X    int fd;
X
X    (void)strcpy(tmpname, TMPNAME);
X
X#ifndef HAS_MKSTEMP
X    (void)mktemp(tmpname);
X    fd = open(tmpname, O_CREAT | O_RDWR | O_EXCL, 0644);
X#else    
X    fd = mkstemp(tmpname);
X#endif    
X    if (fd == NULL)
X    {
X	*fpp = NULL;
X    }
X    else
X    {
X	/* wrap stdio info around filedes */
X	*fpp = fdopen(fd, "w");
X    }
X
X    return tmpname;
X}
X
X/*
X * Read to the next line commencing with a pair of dashes. Store all
X * this in the output file. Delete any leading blank lines. Any line
X * beginning with "- -" should have the leading "- " deleted. the
X * terminating line, beginning with a pair of dashes, is not to be
X * echoed.
X *
X * If this is the first message extracted or the first nonblank line
X * matches END_STRING, or there is no text to the message, return code
X * mailable FALSE. Otherwise, return mailable TRUE.
X */
X
Xbool
Xextract_message(fin, fout)
XFILE *fin, *fout;
X{
X    static bool first_time = TRUE;
X    bool leading = TRUE;
X    char buf[BUFLEN];
X    bool mailable = TRUE;
X
X    if (first_time)
X    {
X	/* don't mail header */
X	first_time = FALSE;
X	mailable = FALSE;
X    }
X
X    while (!feof(fin))
X    {
X	if (fgets(buf, sizeof(buf), fin) == NULL)
X	{
X	    /* no dash line seperator - this definitely isn't mailable */
X	    mailable = FALSE;
X	    break;
X	}
X
X	if (STRMATCH(buf, "--"))
X	{
X	    /* two dashes - end of message */
X	    break;
X	}
X
X	if (leading && STRMATCH(buf, "\n"))
X	{
X	    /* blank leading line - eat it */
X	    continue;
X	}
X
X	if (leading && STRMATCH(buf, END_STRING))
X	{
X	    /* tail of digest - don't mail this */
X	    mailable = FALSE;
X	}
X
X	/* first line of message text */
X	leading = FALSE;
X
X	if (STRMATCH(buf, "- -"))
X	{
X	    /* escaped dash line - echo, deleting leading "- " */
X	    fputs(buf + 2, fout);
X	}
X	else
X	{
X	    /* normal line - echo */
X	    fputs(buf, fout);
X	}
X    }
X
X    if (leading == TRUE)
X    {
X	/* No text in the mail message */
X	return FALSE;
X    }
X
X    return mailable;
X}
X
X/*
X * Mail the tmp file to the user
X */
X
Xvoid
Xmail_file(tmpfile, user)
Xchar *tmpfile;
Xchar *user;
X{
X    char cmd[CMDLEN];
X    int code;
X
X    (void)sprintf(cmd, "%s %s <%s", MAIL, user, tmpfile);
X    if ((code = system(cmd)) != 0)
X    {
X	(void)fprintf(stderr, "burst: command \"%s\" returned exit code %d\n",
X	    cmd, code);
X	exit(code);
X    }
X}
END_OF_burst.c
if test 5352 -ne `wc -c <burst.c`; then
    echo shar: \"burst.c\" unpacked with wrong size!
fi
# end of overwriting check
fi
echo shar: End of shell archive.
exit 0

-------- TML Message #1741 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1741
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 90 07:40:37 EST
From: Dave Allen <dallen@viewlogic.COM>
Subject: Sysgen and USML

Hi!
There have been some inquiries recently about the System Generation sublist.
I would like to recount a little history.  In early 1988, a USENET discussion
on system generation spawned a short-lived mailing list called the Universal
Simulation Mailing List (USML).  I was one of the co-originators of the
discussion.  The USML was an indirect ancestor of the Trav System Generation
sublist; some of the members were the same.  The Sysgen sublist also died out.

All of the USML archives are still on line and available via anonymous FTP.
There are some interesting discussions there, and also some programs.  These
archives, obviously, do not include the stuff related to the Sysgen sublist.
I don't know where/if that stuff is kept.  The USML archive is on a machine
called topgun.agps.lanl.gov.  Here is a listing of what was there last week.

cd pub/usml
ls -l
- - -rw-r--r--  1 -2          25957 Sep 14  1988 Actual
- - -rw-r--r--  1 -2         107641 Jul 28  1989 Archive
drwxr-xr-x  2 -2            512 Nov 16  1988 Digests
drwxr-xr-x  2 -2            512 Aug 23  1989 List
- - -rw-r--r--  1 -2          41639 Sep  8  1988 OtherSun.src
- - -rw-r--r--  1 -2         109856 Sep 15  1988 Psychohistory
- - -rw-r--r--  1 -2           3731 Nov 17  1988 README
drwxr-xr-x  2 -2            512 Sep 23  1988 Universe
- - -rw-r--r--  1 -2          54294 Sep 15  1988 accrete.c
- - -rw-r--r--  1 -2          49459 Sep 19  1988 accretion.amiga
- - -rw-r--r--  1 -2          67778 Sep 10  1988 accretion.src
- - -rw-r--r--  1 -2         176121 Jan 18  1989 archive
- - -rw-r--r--  1 -2         169887 Jul 27  1989 cellsim_1.5.tar.Z
- - -rw-r--r--  1 -2           5334 Sep  8  1988 fractal.c
- - -rw-r--r--  1 -2          29897 Sep 20  1988 plates.c
- - -rw-r--r--  1 -2          10495 Sep 21  1988 references
- - -rw-r--r--  1 -2          30148 Sep 14  1988 shebs
- - -rw-r--r--  1 -2          39275 Sep 22  1988 siod.c
- - -rw-r--r--  1 -2          58063 Jan 11  1989 starcul.shar
- - -rw-r--r--  1 -2          75683 Nov 16  1988 starform
- - -rw-r--r--  1 -2          60385 Sep  8  1988 system.arc
- - -rw-r--r--  1 -2          65536 Jan 28  1989 traveller.tar
- - -rw-r--r--  1 -2         761043 Sep 16  1988 xc5.1-tar.Z

Get the README file.  I recommend starform, an excellent true-astrophysics
system generation program by Matt Burdick.

Enjoy!
- - - Dave Allen: dallen@viewlogic.com, Viewlogic Systems, Marlboro, Mass

-------- TML Message #1742 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1742
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 90 10:14:48 EST
From: Fiver Toadflax <09nilles%cuavax.dnet@netcon.cua.edu>
Subject: Black Globes

re:moving through the field.

In the history of the black globe, found in High Guard I believe, it
tells of when the first black globe was activated.  It cut off the arm
of the scientist activating it.  So I would venture a guess that it is
not possible to move through the field however slowly.

Though it does present a good question about what happens when matter
meets the field. after all       2
                             E=mc

Dave
09nilles@cua.bitnet

-------- TML Message #1743 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1743
Date:     Fri, 9 Nov 90 15:32:11 EST
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Black Globes revisited

Having left my rules at home today, I am winging this response.  I would agree
with everyone who traces the origin of the black globe to Pournelle's Langston
Field (I think it showed up in a Pournelle book set in that universe prior to
the collaberation with Niven on Mote, but I could be wrong.)  

In any case, to refer to the current Travller black globe as "the ultimate
defense" when it will eventually overload and destroy your ship in a huge
explosion is, in my opinion, overstating the case a trifle.  Now if someone
who has the books handy can tell me how much energy the globe needs to be
overloaded on, say a 100,000ton ship with a Jump-4 drive (I think we still
use the jump drive as an energy sink even though the Starship Operators
Manual has disallowed jumping using the stored energy) we could make a
considered opinion.  

All I remember is that in High Guard, I never considered it worthwhile
because the addition to the armor class while flickering with any BG generator
you could build in the Imperium didn't seem to be worth the possibility of
being blown to atoms by the overload.  This leaves out the tactical surprise
considerations.  (And so without reanalyzing the situation, you won't find BGs
on my latest imperial navy design proposals.)

Rob Dean


-------- End of TML Messages --------


-------- TML Message #1744 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1744
Date:     Fri, 9 Nov 90 15:40:38 EST
From: "J.R.Suckling" <bobs@crdec7.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Digest Readers and the TML (was: Mail traffic)


There should be a way to make it easier for you to skip what you do not
want to read.  If you do not like to wade through stuff in a digest,
read on. This is for you.

If you do not like some of the articles you should take advantage of the
new format of this mailing list.  I asked our Administrator

	[ traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (James Perkins)]

to change the format of the digest so that people could skip (or in my
case save) special articles.  The new format separates every article
with a line starting with `--'.  Any lines in articles that are
submitted with '--' starting lines have been changed to '- -' to
ensure that mail bursters can separate them properly.

With this change you will be able burst your digest into separate
articles.  Many mail readers know about this sort of thing. My mail
reader "msg", a part of MMDF, has a command '@' that bursts.  "MH"
(Mail Handler) also has a burst program.  You could even write a
program to burst a digest and mail the articles to your self, if
nothing else would work.

Good luck!	  And let the special interest groups keep
			their share of the TML.
==========
      ___                        < BobS @ ApgEA.Army.Mil >
 __  /   ` ,    U.S. Army Information Systems Command -- Aberdeen
'/_) \_   /_    J. Robert Suckling      / The opinions expressed are
/__)_(_)_/\)    ASQNC-TAB-T  E5234     / solely my own and do not reflect
       \        APG, Md,21010-5423    / U.S. Army policy or agreement.
   \___/        Work: (301)671-3927, 671-2496

[Heh, little did Bob know but one such answer is in an earlier message
of today's TML traffic -- James]

-------- TML Message #1745 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1745
From: "Mark F. Cook" <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
Subject: Re: weapons skill redefinitions
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 90 14:48:45 PST

In TML subject 1719, Gary Schreiber writes:

>   I have been reading the comments on redoing the weapons skills, and I
>   have a point to bring up.  Does getting a skill with a weapon also give
>   you the capability to perform maintainence on it?  If so, then you have
>   to keep the skills seperated.  If not, then there should be a
>   Gunsmith Cascade skill for the various types of weapons(archaic,
>   revolvers, semi-autos, SMG's, MG's, Gauss, Laser, Plasma, Fusion,
>   Neural, etc).  This is something that must be considered if GNU
>   Traveller gets the go ahead.

..and in subject 1725, Jonathan Clark writes back:

> Gary Shreiber asks:
> 
>    Does getting a skill with a weapon also give
>    you the capability to perform maintainence on it?
> 
> In my system the answer is yes, a weapons skill includes the
> training to perform maintenance on that weapon, which is in
> accordance with current military training. It's the PCs
> problem if they forget to actually do the said maintenance...

I agree with this ONLY TO A POINT.  In the USMC, I was trained to fully
field-strip my M-16, so I could clean it and clear serious jams.  However,
if a component were to break, the best I could accomplish is to break down
the weapon, hopefuly locate the broken part, and then say, "Yup.  It's
busted."  I couldn't fix it unless I had another broken '16 to scavenge
from.  This wasn't normally the case. :-)  Even then, replacing some of
the parts requires special tools not normally available on a battlefield.

Therefore, I'd say that a specific weapons skill includes being able to
fieldstrip and clean your weapon, AND THAT'S ALL.  If a component is
broken, you take the weapon to a 'gunsmith' or, if you're in the service,
you have the company quartermaster replace it.

For high TL weapons, this gives fieldstripping a whole new meaning.  If
you're the squad heavy weapons operator (i.e. you carry a PGMP-15 while
everybody else carries laser rifles) then routine field maintenance probably
consists of daily barrel swaps, cleaning the weapon exterior, and checking
the connections from the powerpack to the weapon for damage and wear.
There is nothing to 'break down and clean' otherwise.  For a laser, all
you may have to do is clean the exterior, polish the lens apurture, and
check that the power cable is undamaged.  And so on...

I agree with Gary's initial proposal that there should probably be a Gunsmith
(or, more generically, 'Weaponsmith') Cascade skill for the various types of
weapons.  The catagories he suggests are:

> (archaic, revolvers, semi-autos, SMG's, MG's, Gauss, Laser, Plasma,
> Fusion, Neural, etc).

I think we could lump (revolvers, semi-autos, SMG's, MG's) into a single
catagory of ('chemically-propelled slug-thrower'), and combine (Plasma,
Fusion) into 'Heavy Energy Weapons' (since they, too, work on the same
principle).

Later,

        Mark F. Cook

USMail: User Interface Technical Support
        Hewlett-Packard - Interface Technology Operation
        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330

INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com
UUCP:     {cmcl2, harpo, hplabs, rice, tektronix}!hp-pcd!markc

-------- TML Message #1746 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1746
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 90 23:52:16 CST
From: Roger Opperman <oppr@cardiac-ra.swmed.utexas.edu>
Subject: TDR

A point --

If we're really going to do this right, we should include design
programs/spreadsheets for any vehicle, ship and character design
systems we come up with.  Combat programs wouldn't hurt either.  For
PCs and Macs (ugh).

I disagree with the idea of using TeX.  While it is free and powerful,
it is also cumbersome, hard to read and hard to learn.  (It does do
great equations, though).

Roger

-------- TML Message #1747 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1747
Date:     Sat, 10 Nov 90 15:16:08 EST
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Legged Vehicle Skill

It occurred to me recently that there
should really be a skill for legged vehicle drivers.  If there are separate
skills for tracks and wheels, there should be enough differences to justify
a "legged" skill.

Rob

-------- TML Message #1748 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1748
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 90 04:18:43 -0500
From: Palmer Davis <davisp@scl.cwru.edu>
Subject: responses to various ideas


About weapons skills: a very simple way to break down firearms skills is 
by the last three entries in the stats for the weapon: signature, recoil,
and "difficulty as."  This gives us:

Med/Med/Handgun: All types of revolvers, auto pistol, body pistol, SMG.
Med/Low/Handgun: Both kinds of snub pistols.
Low/Low/Handgun: Gauss pistols.
Hi/Hi/Rifle: All sorts of hunting rifles.
Hi/Med/Rifle: Shotgun and autoshotgun.
Hi/Lo/Rifle: Assault Rocket Launcher.
Med/Hi/Rifle: Light Assault Gun.
Med/Med/Rifle: Carbines, Rifles, Autorifles, Assault Rifles, ACR's.
Lo/Med/Rifle: Accelerator Rifle.
Lo/Lo/Rifle: Gauss Rifles.
Energy weapons can be lumped into two groups based on recoil.

The method I actually use is to keep the "official" weapon skills, treating
the weapon actually picked for the skill as the weapon the player is most
familiar with.  If the player wishes to use another weapon in a firefight
(or has to out of necessity), I take his skill level in the other weapon,
apply any tech level modifiers to the new weapon, and then subtract one from
the skill for each factor by which the new weapon differs from the weapon
in which the player has the skill.  If the new weapon is primarily a single-
shot weapon and the weapon in which the player has the skill is automatic,
I subtract an additional skill level, and vice versa.  Switching from energy
weapons to slugthrowers (or vice versa) costs two, but in this case the
automatic vs. single-shot modifier doesn't apply.  Frequently, the skill
level will be modified to below zero; I keep the result if it's no worse
than -3 and use it as a modifier rather than just throwing it out and 
penalizing the player a difficulty level for having no skill at all.  If the
player has several gun combat skills, the one yielding the best result
applies.  I also let these modifiers apply to the character creation process;
if a player has Combat Rifleman-2 and gets a level of Shotgun skill, he can
take it as Shotgun-2 rather than Shotgun-1 since the Rifle part of Combat
Rifleman would give him a Shotgun skill of 1 already.

- - -- PTD --

-------- TML Message #1749 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1749
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 90 21:39:24 -0900
From: George William Herbert <gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Fixing Maneuver Drives...

W. Dow Reider says:
>Sounds like a reasonable explanation.  However, the problem isn't
>how the drive works, but what it does.  Reactionless drive (by any means)
>equals violation of conservation of energy.  There is no way around it - I
>tried to find one, and was finally able to prove that it was impossible.
>I used to have a lot of trouble with traveller's rather cavalier
>attitude towards physics, but I think an important distinction can be made.
Some of the physics violations are intentional, such as Jump drive,
>reactionless
>thrusters, etc.  These I am happy to accept as little black Physics
>Nullifier (tm)
>boxes attached to the relevant machinery, and are part of what makes the game
>fun.  However, a lot of the problems seem to be unintentional, such as the fact
>that you can get free energy out of a system consisting of TL15 fuel cells and
>a fuel purification plant.  Those I want to fix - it will help make the
>game more
>consistent.
>	Since some of the intentional violations will let you build perpetual
>motion machines, etc, my favorite explanation for why they don't work is
>a "nullifier interference field" generated by all those little black
>boxes...:-)

Re: newtonian violations...
	There's a neat explanation for how to get reactionless drives...
some work by one Robert L. Forward into negative matter shows that with
some negative-mass nearby you can move by interaction with the negative mass
but not using exhaust.  If you want to extrapolate those results into playing
with gravity i just bet that you can get away with reactionless drives.
	If anyone objects to the above i'll go pull Forwards paper and do it
the hard way 8-)

	Robert Dean thought that a straight thrust-based system would work 
better... I agree, but pose a question: is it worth introducing incompatability
if we have means to remain compatable ?


	Other problems (like the one mentioned above) need real fixes.


- - -george william herbert
gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu   OCF Staff

-------- TML Message #1750 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1750
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 90 21:48:02 -0900
From: George William Herbert <gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu>
Subject: What's Approved?: The TML Strikes Back...

>- -bertil-
>- --
>Capitol/Core (????-???????-?)                                 312-1120
>A navy spokessophont today revealed that the publication 'Fighting Ships of
>the Shattered Imperium' has been determined to originate on Terra/Solomani Rim.
>"It's bound to be an insidious Solomani plot to disrupt the Imperial Navy's
> acquisition programs. The navy is amazed that som many loyal citizens fell for
> it. After all, there is a statement on the back of the book that clearly
> states that it was printed in an provice on Terra!"

What, now the TML is denying the authorization of GDW products? 8-)

- - -george

"In late-breaking news from the pocket universe, Grandfather admitted to
having been converted to the new human religous fad, Bertillium.  Sources 
indicate that massive changes are expected..."

-------- TML Message #1751 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1751
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Black globes revisited
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 90 10:17:20 BST

"Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil> writes:
> In any case, to refer to the current Travller black globe as "the ultimate
> defense" when it will eventually overload and destroy your ship in a huge
> explosion is, in my opinion, overstating the case a trifle.

I'd refer to the MT white globe as "the ultimate defense".  Getting one is
a neat trick, though! ;-)
>							      Now if someone
> who has the books handy can tell me how much energy the globe needs to be
> overloaded on, say a 100,000ton ship with a Jump-4 drive (I think we still
> use the jump drive as an energy sink even though the Starship Operators
> Manual has disallowed jumping using the stored energy) we could make a
> considered opinion.  

>From High Guard, as far as I can remember:

Tons of capacitors available = displacement of ship * jump no. * 0.5%
1 ton of capacitors stores 36 E.P.
1 E.P. = ??? MW

I say scrap that part of the Starship Operator's Manual.  High Guard said
you could use stored energy for jumping, or anything else which needed
energy.  Which meant that when I used a black globe, I usually ran as
much as possible off the stored energy, to reduce the chances of an
overload.  The most important calculation every turn was how much energy
I'd used, how much I'd absorbed, and thus whether or not I could afford
to keep the globe on next turn.

- - -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

-------- TML Message #1752 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1752
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Weapon repairs
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 90 10:37:50 BST

"Mark F. Cook" <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM> writes:
>	   I'd say that a specific weapons skill includes being able to
> fieldstrip and clean your weapon, AND THAT'S ALL.  If a component is
> broken, you take the weapon to a 'gunsmith' or, if you're in the service,
> you have the company quartermaster replace it.

The way I'd handle this in game terms is, the weapons skill allows you
to strip and clean the weapon, and replace components with other parts
taken intact from another weapon or a spares store.  The nature of the
component would dictate the task difficulty level; e.g. replacing a
piece of the trigger mechanism is not as easy as replacing the barrel.

Making new parts from a piece of metal comes under Mechanical skill.
Again, the difficulty level depends on the component, but will probably
be quite high - we're talking about precision machinery here.

> For high TL weapons, this gives fieldstripping a whole new meaning.
> ...
> There is nothing to 'break down and clean' otherwise.  For a laser, all
> you may have to do is clean the exterior, polish the lens apurture, and
> check that the power cable is undamaged.  And so on...

I don't know.  The trigger mechanism is now a switch, which could fail
and need to be replaced.  The power system probably has fuses, and can
also probably be dismantled into a few replaceable parts.  I'd expect
the gun to be designed to be dismantled into a few standard parts, e.g.
beam generator, sight, stock, trigger switch assembly, power cable,
power generator, power regulator, fuses.  Going much beyond that would
require Mechanical and/or Electronic skills, and possibly Engineering.

- - -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

-------- TML Message #1753 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1753
From: Dave Johnson <D.M.Johnson@newcastle.ac.uk>
Subject: Black Globes and other things
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 90 14:06:39 WET

This is all from memory as I don't have the old High Guard rules with me at the
time,

        Black Globe generators were designed as an powerful defense system, the
draw backs however are fairly major.
        (1) At tech 15 when they are first introduced they are prototypes,
(Imperial Navy used an High Lighting Class ship to test one)... This gives next
possiblities for worrying players .. will the ship explode when it is turned
on, will it move to a different universe etc etc.
        (2) The Black Globe absorbs all forms of energy. It places a shield
around the ship and absorbs all forms of energy (as defined by Enstein) fired
at the ship. Also all forms of energy from the ship. This means means the ship
is part a of a nasty feedback loop as the ship provides the energy sinks for
the Globe, This means the Globe must flicker to remove the energy which is of a
form that is no good for anything on board. High Guard gives all the rules for
this (40% flicker rate remove 40% of the energy stored)
        (3) The tactical problem of use with the black globe is this. When the
Globe is turned on the ship can't fire, communicate or maneuver. The Ship
maintains it present direction and speed, so the opposite ship hjust predicates
the course of the target and fires when the ship drops its Globe to fire (or
maneuver). You may be invisable but this does not help if the target knows
where you were.
        The tactic suggested by High Guard was to enter the system with the
globe on and drift past the enemy and attack them from behind. (might work)

        Now my defense screen that I would is the personal white globe.


- - -------- Now for something completely different -------------------------

        If any one writes software to aid the traveller universe (weither the
orginal rules MT or RDT) could they try to make it fairly portable. I use a
basic Atari ST. I know most stuff is written in C but I don't have access to an
ANSI C complier only K&R. This is not a flame or a major gripe as most stuff
that complies on unix complies on my machine, (mine you some stuff I got would
complie on the unix machine I use). It is just a request that the author makes
it clear if the code uses any machine specific commands.

Keep up the good work

Cheers

Dave

- - --

+------------------------------------+----------------------------------------+
| David M. Johnson                   | Janet : D.M.Johnson@uk.ac.newcastle    |
| c/o Electrical and Electronic Eng. | ARPA  : D.M.Johnson@newcastle.ac.uk    |
|     Merz Court                     | UUCP  : ...ukc!newcastle!D.M.Johnson   |
|     Newcastle University           |                                        |
|     Newcastle upon Tyne            |                                        |
|     NE1 7RU                        |                                        |
+------------------------------------+----------------------------------------+
| 'There are only three just wars in American history: The American Civil War,|
| World War II and the Star Wars Trilogy,                                     |
|       Peace Dudes'                                                          |
+------------------------------------+----------------------------------------+






-------- TML Message #1754 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1754
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 90 09:52:30 EST
From: Dan Corrin <dan@engrg.uwo.ca>
Subject: Postscript Pages with errata Fixes.


As I discussed in a previous message, I have duplicated the format
of the traveller manuals for updating pages with the errata.

I have one page available (referees' guide p 29) via anonymous ftp. 
(/pub/traveller/ref29.ps). 

If any of you without network access wants a copy send me some mail 
(dan@engrg.uwo.ca) and I will send you the file. Note however that it 
is large at 33K.

(BTW This is done on a UNIX machine (Sun), not a macintosh).

				-Dan

Dan Corrin, System Manager, Mechanical Engineering, UWO, London, Ontario
TML FTP site coordinator:  dan@engrg.uwo.ca   ...!watmath!julian!engrg!dan

-------- TML Message #1755 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1755
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 90 09:10:03 -0800
From: "Ted Kim (Random Dude" <tek@lanai.cs.ucla.edu>
Subject: burst

Ah, someone finally wrote a burst program for the digest.
I thought people would be stuck with my clunky program forever!

> As for bursting digests, I looked at Ted Kim's digest burster earlier
> today.  I realized that it is more complex than it needs to be, so I
> came up with one of my own.  It works great on the new-style digests and
> archive bundles.

In my own defense, I wasn't really sure about the digest format when I
wrote the program. Also, it was written before the new-style format.

But I do miss one feature from my program: my program printed a
message each time it sent an article. (It gives the idle user
something to watch while the program does its thing.)

On different subject: What do people think of the MT improvement
system (ATs and all that)?

- - -ted

Ted Kim                           Internet: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu
UCLA Computer Science Department  UUCP:     ...!{uunet|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!tek
3804C Boelter Hall                Phone:    (213)206-8696
Los Angeles, CA 90024             FAX:      (213)825-2273

-------- TML Message #1756 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1756
Subject: TDR, TeX, character generation
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 90 13:40:13 EST
From: Robert P Poole <tarquin@athena.mit.edu>

I don't recall who voted "no" on TeX, but I have to say this guy doesn't know
what he's talking about.  TeX is not cumbersome.  Sending proprietary files
formatted for one word processor or another and trying to convert them is
cumbersome.  With TeX, you send the source file as plain text, and the other
person can make instant use of it.  I assume that the people on this list are
intelligent enough to see the advantage of using the net to write this thing
up.

Also, for those who are ignorant, it is possible to create a .sty file for TeX
which takes care of the messy formatting business and creates easy-to-use
macros that anyone can learn.  In other words, you can do the following:

\documentstyle{travellerbook}

\begin{document}

[stick text in here]

\end{document}

and that's all she wrote.  I would even be willing to create such a file
and distribute it on the list.

Look, let's be fair and realistic.  Fair in that everyone who wants to should
be able to work on part of the project and have input.  Realistic in that if we
only let a few select people do the actual work, it will never get done.

About automating the generation rules:  Good.  I am glad someone suggested
this.  We should make executables available to PC and Mac users for character
generation, star system generation, starship design, and world map generation.
We should also make the sourcecode available for people to port to other
systems.

Character generation: The homeworld limitations of law level and tech level are
a good idea, but their implementation in MegaTraveller stinks.  Let's fix them,
and create a chart that clearly lists the minimum Law and Tech levels for each
skill.

Robert P. Poole                       tarquin@athena.mit.edu
46 Massachusetts Avenue               MIT Course VIII
311B Bexley Hall                      "We make Idols of our concepts, but
Cambridge, MA  02139                   wisdom is born of wonder."
                                         -- St. Gregory the Illuminator

-------- TML Message #1757 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1757
Date:     Mon, 12 Nov 90 11:12:44 PST
From: Orcinus orca <jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu>
Subject:  Re: Cargo

>From: FELLOWS STEVEN B -5 CR <sfellows@slate.mines.colorado.edu>
>
>  Someone mentioned that they could not understand why it would cost 
>different amounts of money to ship different material.  100 tonnes of feathers
>as oppossed to 100 tonnes of machine parts.  Well, in my system, it would cost
>more for the feathers, since they take up more volume.

Waitasec.  I thought 100 tons referred to volume, as in equivalent
volume of 100 tons of liquid hydrogen.  The rest of the ship is
designed using volume-tons and this makes it easy to figure out
how much space you have left in your cargo hold.

Incidently, this is kinda like the way merchant ships plying the
oceans in the real world are measured--volume in tons of water.
Why?  Something to do with how much weight your ship can hold
before it sinks.

Of course, I can't think of any similar justification for using
liquid hydrogen volume-tons in Traveller.  Maybe if you wanted
to land your ship on a really cold gas (liquid) giant.
- - --
John H. Kim
jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu
uunet!jarthur!jokim

-------- TML Message #1758 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1758
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 90 12:52 EST
From: Ministry of Silly Minds - Open for Business <GDS3939@ritvax.isc.rit.edu>
Subject: Re: Weapon regroupings...


    First of all, I would like to appologize to everyone for my screwup
    with my last mailing.  I accidentally send it to the wrong address.

    As to the content, I commented that skill with a weapon not only give
    skill in the use, but skill in the maintainence.  With this in mind, we
    should also consider how this effects the groupings of the weapons. 
    The revolver or even pistol skill should not be grouped with a gauss
    pistol skill because a large part of the training is going to include
    maintainence, especially in the case of the gauss pistol.  The gauss
    pistol's maintainence regime is COMPLETELY different from maintainence
    on a pistol or a revolver.  You don't have to worry about deposits from
    explosive components, but you do have to worry about electrical
    connections, magnetic alignment and magnetic timing.

    							Jedi Master

- - ---
\  _		Gary Schreiber			| Kelson Alaric
 \ |		241 Oakdale Dr.			| Barrony of Thescorre
  \|		Rochester, NY 1461		| Aethelmearc, EK
EMAIL: gds3939@ritvax.bitnet OR gds3939@vax{a,b,c,d,e}.isc.rit.edu
	OR gds3939@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
OTHER: gds3939@ultb.isc.rit.edu

-------- TML Message #1759 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1759
From: "Brent L. Woods" <woodsb@zoo.ecn.purdue.edu>
Subject: Re: (1753) Black Globes and other things
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 90 1:21:24 EST



 In message 1753, D.M.Johnson@newcastle.ac.uk (Dave Johnson) writes:
 >
 >This is all from memory as I don't have the old High Guard rules with
 >me at the time,

     Fortunately, my copy was just across the room.  2nd Edition _High
Guard_, Copyright 1980 (1st printing), to be exact.  If you have the
first edition, your mileage may vary.  ;-)

 >        Black Globe generators were designed as an powerful defense
 >system, the draw backs however are fairly major.
 >        (1) At tech 15 when they are first introduced they are
 >prototypes, (Imperial Navy used an High Lighting Class ship to test
 >one)... This gives next possiblities for worrying players .. will the
 >ship explode when it is turned on, will it move to a different universe
 >etc etc.

     One small quibble.  "Prototype" isn't the best word to use.  I
think that "copy" would be more accurate.  The device wasn't developed
by Imperial (or any other contemporary) technology.  To quote from page
31 of _High Guard_:

          "Black globe generators are not available commercially; they
     are recovered artifacts installed on a makeshift basis or
     experimental versions installed on tech level 15 Imperial
     warships."

     Also, the behavior of the field is fairly well known--it won't
explode or "move to a different universe."  *It* won't--the capacitors
that it's connected to are a slightly different matter.  They might
explode if you overload them.  I've been playing Traveller for ten
years, and I've never heard this "move to a different universe" rumor.
Where did it come from?

 >        (2) The Black Globe absorbs all forms of energy. It places a
 >shield around the ship and absorbs all forms of energy (as defined by
 >Enstein) fired at the ship.

     Yes.  I don't know where Uncle Albert gets into this (I assume
you mean "Einstein" above), but that's what the black globe does.

 >Also all forms of energy from the ship.

     True, if someone on board the ship is stupid enough to fire a
weapon while the field is on.  However, since I'm sure the Captain of a
globe-equipped ship would take a dim view of this sort of asinine
behavior, it's probably a rare occurrence.  ;-)

 >This means means the ship is part a of a nasty feedback loop as the
 >ship provides the energy sinks for the Globe, This means the Globe must
 >flicker to remove the energy which is of a form that is no good for
 >anything on board. High Guard gives all the rules for this (40% flicker
 >rate remove 40% of the energy stored)

     Buzz!  Wrong answer.  Well, sort of wrong.  From page 42:

          "Since a black globe absorbs all energy, a ship with its field
     on is protected from all fire.  Unfortunately, the forcefield
     works in both directions; the ship may not fire, maneuver, or even
     see out.  These limitations would make the black globe of little
     value in battle if not for the ability of the field generator to
     flicker--switch the field on and off many times per second--giving
     the ship part-time protection while still allowing it to fire,
     maneuver, and track enemy ships during the "off" intervals.
     ...
          Energy striking a black globe screen is diverted to the ship's
     capacitors will hold 36 energy points.  When the screen is
     flickering, a percentage of the incoming energy equal to the
     flicker rate is absorbed."

when it comes to getting rid of the stored energy:

          "Stored energy may be removed from the capacitors by using
     it to power the ship.  Energy may only leave the ship, however, when
     the black globe is off (or during the off intervals of its flicker)."

     I always assumed that this meant using *any* system that used
energy:  weapons, drives, computer, etc.  If you have a large computer,
it *is* possible to get rid of a small amount of absorbed energy with
the field 100% on.  This assumes that the incoming energy is less than
or equal to the amount needed by internal systems.  On page 43, we have
the *really* fun sentence:

          "If a ship absorbs enough energy to make a jump, and is
     supplied with sufficient fuel, it may jump at the end of the turn."

     Of course, this can be dangerous.  If you overload your capacitors,
your ship is destroyed (by violently exploding capacitors, I guess).  I
imagine that it's not a very good idea if you only have your jump drive
capacitors available.

     Kids, these are trained professionals--don't try this at home.  :-)


- - --
     Brent

INTERNET:  woodsb@gn.ecn.purdue.edu
USNAIL:  2818 S. Sunrise Dr.  /  New Palestine, IN  46163
PHONE:  +1 (317) 861-4844 (voice)


-------- TML Message #1760 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1760
From: "Brent L. Woods" <woodsb@zoo.ecn.purdue.edu>
Subject: Re: (1756) TDR, TeX, character generation
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 90 1:28:09 EST



 In message 1756, tarquin@athena.mit.edu (Robert P. Poole) writes:
 >
 >I don't recall who voted "no" on TeX, but I have to say this guy
 >doesn't know what he's talking about.  TeX is not cumbersome.
 >Sending proprietary files formatted for one word processor or another
 >and trying to convert them is cumbersome.  With TeX, you send the
 >source file as plain text, and the other person can make instant use
 >of it.  I assume that the people on this list are intelligent enough
 >to see the advantage of using the net to write this thing up.

     How about a controversial suggestion?  Let's not use TeX.  Let's
not use *roff.  Let's not use postscript.  Let's not use a word
processor formatted file.

     Why don't we just use ordinary flat ASCII?  It can be moved from
machine to machine with relative ease, is easily mutable for use with
almost anything else (most word processors that I know of will import
flat ASCII text without too much trouble), and is easily *human
readable*, unlike most formatter source.

 >Look, let's be fair and realistic.  Fair in that everyone who wants
 >to should be able to work on part of the project and have input.
 >Realistic in that if we only let a few select people do the actual
 >work, it will never get done.

     I agree.  If we just use ASCII text, that makes it that much
easier for *everyone* to use, and you don't need any extra software
to use it.


- - --
     Brent

INTERNET:  woodsb@gn.ecn.purdue.edu
USNAIL:  2818 S. Sunrise Dr.  /  New Palestine, IN  46163
PHONE:  +1 (317) 861-4844 (voice)


-------- End of TML Messages --------


-------- TML Message #1761 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1761
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Re: Lots-of-stuff and a spoiler at the end.
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 90 15:19:41 MET

Summary: Little Black Boxes, Manuever Drives, Antigravity, Armour, TDR Legal 
  Questions, Gramps, Jump Capacitors, Bad Science, Weapon repairs, Gaussrifles 
  and PS: A Possible Enigma.

Warning: PS: A Possible Enigma might be a spoiler for KNIGHTFALL and about the 
  Ancients, but PS: A Possible Enigma is at the absolute end of the this letter.

  I'd like to propose this as the first commandement of TDR:
 
"There shall be no LittleBlackBoxes unless they are sorely needed."

  ie Jumpdrive is a typical case where LBB is needed, Antigravity is probably
another one. Xray lasers might be one.

  As for manuever drives, why not use fusion rockets as standard drives? They
might need to be reworked with regards to fuel consumption, thrust, weight and
cost, but they are simple and don't seem to violate any major priciples of
physics.
  (ie, one has to go pretty far down in the mecanics to discover that it don't
work because the strenght of the magnetic field needed to contain the plasma in
such a small volume would throw around all metal in an 100 mile radius, or 
something like that:)

  Antigravity is another thing that I have problems with. Isn't antigravity also
a reactionless drive, or might it be rationalized as the drive really pushing
against the mass of the planet?
  (FLASH! Capitol/Lost in Space (????-???????-?)                        317-1120
   As some experts had predicted, the anti-grav generators on lucans new 
ludicrously large flying imperial palace, was strong enough to actually move the
planet of Capitol. We'll get back to you when we pass Vland...)

  I'll try to remember to do a comparision between grav modules and COACC 
engines with repect to thrust per weight and price. My impression from a brief
look at it yesterday was that grav-modules isn't terribly mor efficient, but
they tend to drink much lesser fuel (and much cheaper).

  The key to this set of problems (ie manuever drives don't work, and when the
do, they use far too little energy and powerplants that give far to little 
energy to account for the fuel they use) might be to both increase the 
efficiency of fusion power plants and the power consumptions of whatever we'll
use instead of manuever drives (fusion rockets or grav modules)

  Armour. Is there anyone else out there who have trouble with the thought of
spaceships with armour that you'll need a heavy shape charge to penetrate? 
Factor 40 armour is the the kind that one expect to find on the front glacis
and front turret of a tank! (120mm HV guns have a penetration of 34 when firing
KEAP at TL8 (I assume that KEAP is an catch-all for the best AP/APDS/APDSFS/
APDSFSDU of the appropriate TL) and the front of a modern tank *might* be
penetrated by a APFSDS fired from short range.)
  But remember that tank armour is much thicker at the front than on the sides,
the rearm top and bottom. And the effective thickness of the front armour is
multiplied about 1.5 times by the sloping of the front surfaces, so while
the effective front armour might equate Factor 40, the effectiveness of the 
armour against shots hitting it from higher elevations is lower.
  The starships, alas, have at least Factor 40 all around. This is probably in
the range of 20 to 30 centemeters of ordinary TL8 armour plate! And those
things fly???

  One idea for getting protection from cosmic radiation even without ludicrous
amounts of armour is putting the inhabitated parts of the ship in the centre
and surround them with water tanks. If we'll use fusion rockets then water
might be a good choise for reaction mass?

> From: George William Herbert <gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu>
> Subject: (1750) What's Approved?: The TML Strikes Back...
> > it. After all, there is a statement on the back of the book that clearly
> > states that it was printed in an provice on Terra!"
> 
> What, now the TML is denying the authorization of GDW products? 8-)

  What? Me TML? Disclaimer: I'm not TML, and besides, if FSSE, in the context
of the traveller universe, *were* a solomani plot, it would still be within
the context of the traveller universe. It would simply be a more advanced 
version of the "The Rebel Reporter" series of articles:)

  However, I think that this might highlight a question about TDR. What will
GDW say if we start pouring out things for something called Rebel Traveller?
I think that that name is too close to Traveller (R) and Mega Traveller (TM).
  TDR, on the other hand, is sufficienly non-specific that anyone can claim that
it really means anything. It's all a matter of plausible deniability:)

  Someone (I don't know who, since I didn't find it when I went looking for it
in my old files:( asked, jokingly, if TDR are going to be a hostile takeover of
Traveller. GDW might interpret it that way if the word Traveller is used as a
obvious part of the name. 
  That someone also raised the idea of starting a company to do TDR. This will
definately move TDR away from TML and into the hands of SnailMail. I feel
fairly certain that Tektronix don't want to provide another company with 
communications for free, and without really knowing that they do it!
  Even if TDR was disengaged from TML, there would still probably be trouble
for those in TDR that have net access through their employers. I don't know any
employer that would be happy if his employees used the net access to run their
own companies...

> - -george
> 
> "In late-breaking news from the pocket universe, Grandfather admitted to
> having been converted to the new human religous fad, Bertillium.  Sources 
> indicate that massive changes are expected..."

  Aw, I'm already overworked! I don't have time to lead a major religion!
Perhaps Granps could ship some androids that look like me so they could do
my exams, leaving me with an immense amount of spare time for Traveller?

> From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
> Subject: (1751) Re: Black globes revisited
> 
> "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil> writes:
> >							      Now if someone
> > who has the books handy can tell me how much energy the globe needs to be
> > overloaded on, say a 100,000ton ship with a Jump-4 drive (I think we still
> > use the jump drive as an energy sink even though the Starship Operators
> > Manual has disallowed jumping using the stored energy) we could make a
> > considered opinion.  
> 
> >From High Guard, as far as I can remember:
> 
> Tons of capacitors available = displacement of ship * jump no. * 0.5%
> 1 ton of capacitors stores 36 E.P.
> 1 E.P. = ??? MW

  250 MW, That's what one gets if one compare the power consumption by
weapons in MT and HG. Notice that all starship weapons use power in multiples
of 250 MW. (It's also stated explicitely in the rules somewhere. I think that 
it is in the space combat rules in Ref's Manual, the part about BG's)
  Since each old ton is 13.5 m3, one m3 of capacitor will store 666.6 MW.

  The ship in the example above will be able to store 18 TW (18,000,000MW) of
energy.... waitaminute... "watts of energy?" watt's are effect, not enery!
I guess that we've found another hole in the rules, big enough to drive the
corridor fleet through. I think that this error is connected to the fact that
all weapons just have a MW figure for continous operation. That is not enough
data to be able to compute the energy in a hit. To do that we'd need to know
how long the beam (in case of a laser) was targetted on the target.
  
  I think that the correct amount of energy will be the MW figure for one turn,
ie 18TW * 20 min, which yields 360 TJ. That's well into the range of nukes.

> From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
> Subject: (1752) Weapon repairs
> 
> "Mark F. Cook" <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM> writes:
> >	   I'd say that a specific weapons skill includes being able to
> > fieldstrip and clean your weapon, AND THAT'S ALL.  If a component is
> > broken, you take the weapon to a 'gunsmith' or, if you're in the service,
> > you have the company quartermaster replace it.
> 
> Making new parts from a piece of metal comes under Mechanical skill.
> Again, the difficulty level depends on the component, but will probably
> be quite high - we're talking about precision machinery here.

  But remember that even if a weapons is damage so that it won't work, that
dosen't nessesarily mean that any part is broken.
  Example: The magasine of an automatic weapon don't need to be bent much
before this starts to interfer with the feed. If the top part of a magasine is
damaged in a certain way, the weapon with refuse to fire at all. Similarly, 
springs might bent out of shape, cartridges might get stuck and so on.
  These isn't 'Superficial' errors, because each one will make the weapon 
unusable, and 'superficial' damage won't interfear with the operation of
something. Yet none of them require any new parts to fix, just some tools
and a little time.


  Lastly I'm going to challenge one of basic pre-conceptions of Traveller and
MegaTraveller: The recoilless gauss-rifle.
  The gaussrifle fires a small 4mm calibre bullet. This bullet travels at 
1000m/s which is about as fast as an normal 5.56 NATO round. And yet, the 
gaussrifle inflict 4D with a penetration of 7, while a 5.56 NATO in Traveller
would inflict 3D at around 3 or 4 in penetration.
  This would indicate that the bullet from a gaussrifle travels much faster 
than a normal rifle bullet, maybe somewhere in the range of 1500 to 2000 m/s.

  How this weapon can be thought as being particularly recoilless is beyong me:)

- - -bertil-
PS A Possible Enigma (And spoiler for KNIGHTFALL, Why don't ^L work, btw? :-P
  In KNIGHTFALL the Primordials are introduced. They were about 250 000 yrs 
before the Ancients and the Ancients studied them. The big question is: Why?
The ancients are an already established source of fantastic artifacts and 
puzzling sites. Why then introduce another race? If they had no other purpose
but serve as the goal/enigma of KNIGHTFALL, they are totally unjustifiable.
  I don't even think that the thought of introducing another old mystery race
would enter anyones mind unless there were some justification.
  I'm beginning to suspect that there is justification.
  Remember the Aslan Enigma: Nobody thought it strange that the Aslan did things
contrary to their nature and achieved jumpdrive in an extremely short time.
Everyone assumed that they did this without outside influences, until Digest
ran the Aslan story and the interview with MM where he stated that this was an
Official Enigma (tm:).
  The droyne lived a pastoral life as some low techlevel and never showed the
least aptness for conquering the universe. Then, suddenly, Yaskodray appeared,
turned droyne society around and spread them over the stars in pursuit of 
different scientific projects.
  Nobody thinks that strange.
  Another clue might be the usage of the term 'uplift' in Vilani & Vargr when
talking about geneering a species to sentinence. That usage of the word is from
Brin's books (Not the Brin of Sintra/Corridor:). Very briefly those books 
feature a succession of species that each uplifted their successors.
  The answer to the droyne question would then be: No, they didn't do it
without outside influence. If the Primordials were involved, it would also give
the Ancients a very good reason for conductiong research about the Primordials.
It would also perhaps explain why the Ancients borrowed so much of their
technology from the Primordials.

  The answer might of course also be that my imagination is working overtime:)
- - -- 
"Words on the net aren't usually worth the paper they are written on."

-------- TML Message #1762 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1762
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: TDR
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 90 15:57:09 MET

  I forgot to mention in that last post:

  Yes, I vote "yes" for TDR/Rebel Traveller.

- - -bertil-
- - -- 
"Words on the net aren't usually worth the paper they are written on."

-------- TML Message #1763 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1763
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 90 10:48:57 -0700
From: FELLOWS STEVEN B -5 CR <sfellows@slate.mines.colorado.edu>
Subject: Re:  CARGO

Orcinus orca <jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu> wrote:

>From: FELLOWS STEVEN B -5 CR <sfellows@slate.mines.colorado.edu>
>
>  Someone mentioned that they could not understand why it would cost 
>different amounts of money to ship different material.  100 tonnes of feathers
>as oppossed to 100 tonnes of machine parts.  Well, in my system, it would cost
>more for the feathers, since they take up more volume.

Waitasec.  I thought 100 tons referred to volume, as in equivalent
volume of 100 tons of liquid hydrogen.  The rest of the ship is
designed using volume-tons and this makes it easy to figure out
how much space you have left in your cargo hold.

End of jokim's post.
- - ------------------------------

Okay,   my error.    I assumed that you were still talking about mass.  If you
were referring to what I was talking about in an earlier post that 100 tonnes of cargo implies either 100 metric tonnes of mass or 100 cubic meters (volume) then they should cost the same.

I don't think it referres to that as the volume of an equivalent mass of liquid
hydrogen: that would be a cumbersome way of working.  Of course, this could be
how it is referred to in Traveller, for something being too cumbersome has not
stopped them before.

I have never designed a starship for Traveller.  However, designing a cargo
vessel for 2300AD, I just determined the volume of the cargo hold that I wanted,
and then determined the mass of the shell and supports used in manufacturing the
hold.  Anyway, it is not too unlikely that the designers use a different unit
of measure than the users.


Steven B. Fellows
sfellows@slate.mines.colorado.edu.



-------- End of TML Messages --------


-------- TML Message #1764 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1764
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 90 09:28:27 PST
From: Joel Lovell <jlovell@smdvx1.intel.COM>
Subject: 2300AD Adventure: Crowle's Colony

I hope this isn't too large, "split" didn't cut it down any smaller.

[Thanks for sending this Joel; don't worry, max message size for the TML
is about 45K bytes, this one is about 34K.  I edited the subject line so
it was more meaningful -- James]

This is a 2300 AD adventure, but should work well with a number of
things.  Let me know what you think.

CROWLE'S COLONY                              2300AD.1

ADVENTURE DESCRIPTION

The crew of the badly beat up Fast Missile Carrier, the FMC Ollie
North are given orders to return to Terra to decommission the
vessel and be assigned to a new kind of starship, the Military
Survey Vessel class MSV Ranger.  This ship is fittingly named since
it is the first of it's kind to explore new star systems utilizing
the best of military technology.  The new MSV class ship, which
is equipped with the latest in powerplant, drive, hull materials,
sensors, weapons and comfort, has room for fifty civilian
specialists and a press representative.  It's mission is to explore
the outermost reaches of the various arm's of space and beyond. 
This is the first voyage of the MSV Ranger to a world with a lost
colony that has reverted to barbarism, on purpose!  This adventure
includes a new ship class, a table of primitive weapons, and
information on the discovery of a colony that deliberately went
back to a medieval technology level and erased all evidence of
mankinds other homes in the stars.

PLAYERS CHARACTERS BACKGROUND

This adventure is designed for starting player characters with the
following rough description kept in mind when the character is
designed.  The referee should look them over carefully to see if
they are appropriately matching their descriptions.  Names,
homeworld, etc. are all up to the players.  These are just
guidelines.  The referee should feel free to have these be NPC's if
the player's choose to have their own characters take the parts, or
leave them out entirely.

1. Reporter:  This person is from Frontier Times magazine and
should have experience in combat journalism.  He or she will be the
official representative for the presses of over nine colony worlds,
plus an expert in mountain climbing, spelunking or survival, in
addition to a good proficiency in journalism skills.  

2. Ship's Captain:  This Captain will have to be an outstanding
tactician, leader and jack of all trades, plus be an ex-special
forces expert.  

3. Ship's Medical Officer:  This person will have to be one of the
best combat medics/surgeon's around if the crew is to survive the
wounds of battle.  He is also a good scientist in the field of
choice.
4. Ship's Helmsman:  A "Sierra Hotel" Interface pilot as well as a
good fighter, ship's gunner, and starship pilot.  This person
should also be good at sensors and navigation.

5. Ship's Security Specialist:  This character will be highly
trained in space combat and all weapons categories.  He or she will
be an experienced special forces person and must be a survival
expert.  
6. Ship's Chief Engineer: This NPC is an all around genius with
machines, new technology, and he has an almost magical touch.  The
Chief Engineer is extremely skilled.  (Engineering 7+ with all
aspects of ships power and drives).  This person should be an NPC
specialist associated with the MSV Ranger.

PLAYERS BACKGROUND

The player's should be given the information on the new ship, and
if needed and appropriate, read the player's information section. 
The adventure starts where that part leaves off.  If the referee
chooses to not use the situation provided with the ship MSV Ranger
he should feel free to improvise, if he has a vessel capable of
making the voyage with the PC's on board.  A Trilon Special
Services Survey Ship can handle the voyage with a good enough
Engineer tuning the drives and delaying the discharge.  

REFEREE'S INFORMATION ON CROWLE'S COLONY

The Founding of the Colony: The Australian outpost on Ross 863 was
established in the year 2201.  Next, 4.3 ly's away, is Ross 868. 
2.77 ly away from Ross 868 is Ross 867.  In 2188 a colony ship
departed Ross 867 and discarding a drive, was able to cover 8.39 ly
to DM +32 2896, a Class G2 V star out of reach of normal space
craft for the next hundred and thirteen years.  There was only a
brief notation in a little read status report that the Colony Ship
Anachronism departed for ports unknown to settle a world.  Over 200
people disappeared at a time when conflict was over colony world's
much closer and easier to reach.  This group called themselves the
Ancient Earth Society.  They believed that man should forget all
dangerous technology, and that the old ways of living were better
for all.  Their plan was to someday start a world of their own, a
new world where technology would be discarded and completely
eradicated from all records.  It was founded by a charismatic man
named Alexander Crowle's.  The wealthy industrialist organized the
eccentric group.  He spent every credit he could get into a  
colonization effort, and called upon all of his hundreds of    
thousands of followers to raise credits in an effort to allow
the dream to become reality.  The colony group obtained their ship,
a standard colony vessel outfitted with Jerome drives intended to
be discarded once the vessel reached the limit of the drive range. 
By discarding the first drive after it built up to hefty a charge,
they then had their engineers perform the complex task of getting
the next stage on line.  The ship reached DM +32 2896 and entered
the system.  Blind luck brought them to a system with a world not
only inhabitable, but a garden world.  The colony ship was crewed
by Ancient Earth Society members.

They stripped the ship after unloading crew and passengers, and set
the hulk into an orbit around the world's largest moon.  On the new
world, which the colonist's called Erthe, the shuttles were
dismantled and all evidence of advanced technology was destroyed or
reformed into normal tools and materials.  The colonist's built a
thriving medieval technology level community, called Crowle's     
Kingdom.   Overhead, the derelict colony ship's orbit around the
larger satellite slowly decayed, all the while ready to transmit a
message to any ship that entered the system.  No message ever went
out until the colony ship eventually crashed into the surface of
the moon Thonn, which caused the ship's sensors to trigger one
transmission before it was destroyed. This message took over 15
years to reach Ross 863, where an Astronomer's radio telescope
picked up a few words obscured by static.  The static rendered the
message into a plea for help, instead of the intended warning to
stay away.  The log records and other information exist in the
damaged computer banks in the wreckage on the moon. 

Erthe:  The only planet in this system, Erthe is a much older twin
of Terra, with conditions similar to that of Terra thousands of
years in the past.  The dim light from the twin red stars keeps the
world in a perpetual twi-light.  The sky is a bright jade green
caused by a combination of an unusual element in the atmosphere,
which actually protects the surface of the world from the radiation
which would normally make the planet barren.  There is also a spore
that is the product of the civilization which once lived here, who
had left little remaining as evidence of their existence save for
worn carvings in piles of stone that might have been the ruins of
a structure aeons before.  An added side-effect of this new element
is that extended exposure in-curably addictive.  Anyone exposed two
or more weeks to the atmosphere, without taking a week's break,
will never be able to leave.  Those who leave that world after the
safety margin has elapsed risk going into a coma and brain damage
from the body's withdrawals, and then eventually will die.  

The side effect of these spores (which are dependent upon this gas)
is that it prevents any harmful diseases or germs from harming any
carbon based mammal that absorbs it and becomes a host.  Thus,
injuries do not become infected, and disease no longer exists. 
Wounds also heal very quickly.

Colonists:  The colonists who originally landed wasted no time in
settling in with farms, building's and home's constructed out of
local material's using power tool's and machinery to get them
started.  Once the place was comfortably established, the machinery
was stored away for the times it was really needed, quickly
learning to be dependent on themselves to build what they needed. 
All reference material, evidence of technology, weapon's and   
equipment having anything to do with modern technology was
carefully removed from their lives.  Their children were taught
only what children in 16th century England or France learned and
none of them learned of their true home of Terra.  To the children,
this was home, where they have always been.  Erthe was the name of
their world, Thonn the name of their largest moon, and Djonn the
name of the smaller.  They called their star the Sun and that was
the extent of their science and history.  Story's from Terra's past
survived, painting a colorful description of past events on earth
as being vague chronicles of Erthe.  Their religion was simple, and
their strongest belief was incorporated into their religion
described all men from the sky as being tricky devil's that used
men's bodies to try and destroy their way of life with new ways and
sinister machinations.  These beliefs went into cunning detail,
ensuring that any technology based visitor not keeping their
appearance as a native would get a hostile response from the
colonists.  Alex Crowle was no fool.  He knew that only those
complying with his wishes to not disturb this created ecology and
way of life could expect to peacefully communicate with the
colonist's.  The fact that his and the others decedents might not
wish to live such a hard, primitive life never entered Crowle's or
his follower's minds. 

Erthe Life:  The colonist's, in an effort to make their new world
more like the ancient Terra they idealized, brought with them deer,
antelope, cattle, pigs, sheep, hundred's of variety of bird
including geese, ducks, songbird's, pigeon's, and other varieties. 
Supposedly to keep the ecological balance, a cross selection of the
major carnivores such as the wolf, dog, cats and bear were also
added.  Fish of every edible kind were brought to stock lakes and
ponds.  The colonist's did not expect the variety of native life
that already thrived.  Some of the Terran animals adapted and
thrived, others vanished.  Terran crops grew easily and became the
main source of food for the colonists.  One commonly known
dangerous animal is called a "Dragon" by the colonists.  It is
believed that the creature is not a native lifeform but originated
from Wolf-424B-1.  It has a remarkable resemblance to the giant
lizard's on Wolf, which resemble large komodo dragon's on earth.

There are countless other mammalian lifeforms that seem to be
harmless equivalents to rabbits, foxes, and deer.  Other dangerous
creatures probably exist, but since the world for the most part is
largely unexplored, these creatures have yet to be discovered.  
 
Dragons:  The Dragon's are similar to Komodo Dragons or the Monitor
Dragon on Terra, as far as that they are reptiles, have big boned
bodies, and crawl on four legs.  There the resemblance stops for
these 1000 kg plus monsters are lightning fast killers, capable of
sprints exceeding 110 kph.  They are highly territorial and are
extraordinarily tough.  Their hides are prized for armor, for the
silicon base of their cellular structure creates a hide that is
pliable and twice as protective as any non-metallic synthetic armor
yet made by even Terran technology standards.  This hide would    
make an excellent trade good from this world.  The Dragon's inhabit
the desert regions, in rocky areas where wilderness area meets the
desert, eating anything that moves.  No one knows what the Dragon's
diet consists of considering that any of the carbon based life
forms living on the world are highly poisonous if eaten by the
creature.  (The creature eats it's own young, and if a grown dragon
is killed, the harmless younger versions start to grow unchecked
until hundreds of dragons start to compete for food and territory.
These beasts are quite prolific.  If the PC's manage to kill one,
they will have a tough time of it, and the real nightmare will only
then begin as the young quickly mature...) (Read The Legacy of
Heorot by Larry Niven,and etc.)

Number Appearing: 1  Size: 1000kg  Speed: 150 m  Wound: +1    
Armor: (Head: 4) (Throat: 2) (Body/Legs/Tail: 3) Hit: Easy
Conc/Life: (12/21) ClawsDPV: 1.3 BiteDPV: 2.5 TailDPV: 1 BT
Signature:  4 Init: 10/5 

The local's have no weapon's capable of killing a Dragon.  The few
times their records show of successful victory was when a local
hero tricked one into a gorge where it drowned.  Another time one
was angered into eating a cow, it died a few minutes later.  Their
stories tell of the entire village being destroyed months
afterward.  They leave the Dragon's alone.  Fortunately, the
Dragon's rarely wander out of their respective territories.  Except
for this one who keeps getting pushed out of his territory by a
bigger, meaner Dragon...

Referee's Note - Encounters:  The only time a Dragon should be
encountered is if the PC's are looking for it, or with one
exception.  If the PC's shuttle land's in the desert area to avoid
being detected, they might just run right into one on the way
toward's the medieval settlement.  Normal wilderness encounters
should be wolves, maybe a bear protecting their young, or possibly
a pack of wild dogs.  This could be a surprisingly tough encounter
if the PC's have made the decision (or have been ordered) to
utilize local technology level weapons.  It should be noted that
winter has set in and this would be the only reason the canine
encounters would occur.  The bear could have been disturbed from
it's hibernation an earthquake, etc.  (There is an active volcano
near the colony site.) Or if the referee wishes to create something
weirdly dangerous/appropriate, he can sick it on the PC's. 
Especially if they are heavily armed and intend trample all over
the colonists. 

THE ADVENTURE

The Beginning:  The Colony Ship Anachronism, before crashing onto
the planetoid, broke up enough to fool the sensors into
transmitting the message warning.  Fifteen and a half years later,
the radio message reached the instruments of a German Astronomer. 
The message as heard by the Astronomer is as follows and should be
read to the players at the appropriate time:

"..................invaders, keep away..................... with
...... There is nothing ..........save the Anachronism,............ 
.........abandoned ............................... We are colonists
of...............................................................
...............................out of .................. we...
plead...........warn,.................stay away from...............
..............................................   
.............................humans...It has no ......... any
    .........................................................
    ........................die........................"

PLAYER'S INFORMATION:

The Orders: "You and your crew have been ordered to Earth to   
decommission your ship, the FMC Ollie North (Fast Missile
Carrier), which has sustained substantial damage fighting the
Kafer at Hochbaden.  You have been reassigned to a new ship,
the MSV Ranger, a new class military vessel designed to be
used for peaceful exploration but fully capable of defending
itself against hostile forces and acting as a warship against
said forces."

The Mission: "To explore systems previously out of reach of
normal starships and carry out duties of scientific nature
while capable of performing duties of a warship.  It's first
shake down run is to depart from the Australian outpost on
Ross 863, eventually arriving at DM +32 2896, discharging drives at
Ross 868, and Ross 867.  The ship must successfully delay the
discharge of the drives before departing Ross 867.  There are two
reasons for visiting DM +32 2896.  One, is to investigate the
origin of an apparent distress signal from from DM +32 2896.  The
message was an ordinary radio signal that came from the yellow star
system 15 years earlier.  The MSV Ranger is to see if someone
managed to survive the 15 years since the message was sent.  The
other reason to go to the system is to determine if a potential
threat similar to the Kafer's has been or is present in DM +32
2896.

Static obscured nearly the entire message until computer
enhancement and filtering of signals was used to clean up the
message.  The message above should be read to the players at this
time.

If someone with Communications skill of 3 or higher decides to try
to enhance the message further and succeeds, the additional words
"largest moon" will be clarified.  This is to clue the explorers to
check the largest moon around the colonist world of course.  It is
there that the complete actual message can be discovered.  (See
below). 

Task: To enhance message: Routine. Communications. 10 min.

Failure simply means the message cannot be made clearer.

THE WRECKAGE OF THE ANACHRONISM

Entering the System:  Upon entering the system, the MSV Rangers
sensors will indicate the basic information off of the Planetary
Data sheet, such as the stellar data, types of planets at their
various orbits, and the fact that a garden world exists in an ideal
orbit in the life zone. After moving in closer the sensors can pick
up more information about the world.  Initial readings will give
the planetary data given in the Planetary Data sheet.  That is,
that the world is a garden world very similar to earth but having
much less land mass, and two satellites, one of which is larger
than the other.   Once the MSV Ranger is in orbit and begins
cartographic surveys and lifeform scans basic population data is
derived.  The atmosphere has an unusual emerald green tint to it
that is difficulst to analyse.  First hypothesis indicate the
atmosphere has an unknown element mixed in with the gasses. 
Lifeforms vary in size, but movement patterns have yet to be
analyzed to determine probable nature of the alien forms.  A large
variety of Terran animals exist in areas near the colony sites, but
some species have been identified in remote areas.  In particular,
migratory birds.  (note the following tasks are optional.)
 
Task: To disembark shuttle from hangar deck: Routine. Pilot.1
minute.

Task: To enter low orbit, obtain atmospheric samples: Routine.
Pilot. 20 minutes.

Task: To determine effects and properties of gas on humans and
mammals: Routine. Biology. 3 days.

Task: To determine nature of aline lifeforms through sensor       
observation and patterns: Routine. Zoology. 1 day.

Results of studies:  

The atmosphere has three diatomic gaseous elements which are similar to nitrogen,
oxygen, and one new element. The one's similar to nitrogen and oxygen exist in
an acceptor state, which means they are more readily able to bond with other
elements.  The new element, normally as harmless as nitrogen, is bonded with the
other gases forming a molecule that behaves in all aspects as nitrogen and oxygen
does in a normal breathable atmosphere, but when absorbed into the blood stream
of humans it becomes highly addictive within a short period of time.  After this
period of time, which is at least two weeks, the withdrawal symptoms are so
severe they would almost always be fatal.  Extensive exposure would cause no
harmful side effect until lack of the substance caused the withdrawals.  The
third element is the cause of the rich emerald green tint of the sky.  

Sensors directed toward the largest moon would show that it is a rocky core
planetoid with no atmosphere.  The heavily cratered surface is interrupted with
plains and mountain ridges much like earths moon.  The wreckage of the   
Anachronism is relatively scattered in the mountain range.  The largest section
intact is the bridge, and it may be possible to find computer memory chips and
clues as to what happened to the colony. After disembarking from the hangar the
pilot has the additional task of landing.  Task: To land make an low-g
non-atmospheric descent using a VTOL space plane. Routine. Pilot. 5 minutes.  

Task: To land on the uneven surface near the remains of the bridge. Formidable.
Pilot. 1 minute. 

After the tasks of getting to the bridge section in the side of the mountain,
clambering through the wreckage, then finally retrieving the necessary computer
memory storage chips, log-recorders, etc., and returning to the ship, the    
following message and the history of the colony can be determined. 

"We do not welcome invaders, keep away.  We will only welcome those who do not
bring things of technology with them.  There is nothing of value, save the
Anachronism, which we abandoned around our largest moon Thonn.  We are colonists
of the Ancient Earth Society, and claim this world for our own and demand all
outsiders to keep from interfering with our society.  Again we plead, beg, and
warn, all outsiders to stay away from our world.  A chemical exists in our    
atmosphere which is highly addictive in humans.  It has no effect in any way on
a human physiology until it's presence is absent from the body, which will then
die.  There is no known cure.  It becomes dangerously addictive after two weeks
exposure.  You have been warned."

This clue clarify's the "distress signal" as being actually a "Do not tresspass"
message that was transmitted when the colonist's abandoned ship's decaying orbit
somehow set off the message.  The ship's captain should realise now that
there is apparently no threat such as the Kafer in this region of space.  Since
the "survivors" are actually the descendants of the colonists who had prepared
the message over a hundred years earlier, they would need to be educated, not
rescued.  A complete survey and investigation of the conditions down below would
be needed before a message probe could be sent to the nearest command post.  Many 
scientists and specialists will be eager to observe the colonists and others will
be eager to study the world itself.  A basecamp could be setup away from the
colonists where the scientists could wear respirators and perform whatever  
experiments necessary.

Meanwhile, on board the vessel, scientists are presumably busy studying the
colony world.  (NPC) Astrophysicist, Dr. Lester Smith IV, Ph.D.  will report an
amazing find.  The mountain ranges on the continent below show signs of possible
large tantalum ore deposits.  The colonists below could become very wealthy if
they could be convinced of the necessity of trading with the rest of mankind. 

Now the Captain must make decisions.  He can either study and gather information
first hand and after sending a ton of information to Terra await for instructions
or he can do handle the touchy situation of educating the people below with the
aid of the many scientists and specialists on board.  The problems are two fold: 
1) The existance of a gas that after two weeks will kill anyone taken away from
it. 2) The fact that the founder of the colony instilled a fanatical beleif that
technology was "evil" and made his followers prejudiced towards people using
technology as being "devils".  A further complication will be the revelation of
the tantalum ore existing in such large quantity.  This is such a deadly secret
that sabotage, or war could be the end result if the wrong people learned of it.
The perceptive Ship's Captain will probably realize that landing in the colonists
"front door", wearing space suits and armed with high tech weapons, will probably
panic and anger them into attacking.  The only way to prevent a massacre is to
carry only concealable high-technology weapons and outwardly wear the low tech
level weapons and armor.

It is up to the Referee to decide what armor and weapons are appropriate if the
Captain is an NPC, otherwise the Captain would determine the weapons and
equipment he wants the team going into the colonist's city to have.  A complete
table is given describing the characteristics of a variety of ancient melee and
range weapons.  It is suggested that only very easily concealed firearms be
carried if any, with maybe a few variety of gernades in case any large critters
need to be dealt with.  They don't know how the people down there will react to
people who will be as strange as the explorers will act.  Remember Terra's early
history - burning to death people that were thought to be witches.  Note that
High Technology armor is greatly superior to anything made on the Colony.  Some
of this armor can be made to look like the kinds of armor actually used, but the
more advanced inertial or combat armors would be difficult to disquise.  The
machine shop and workshop on board the MSV Ranger are capable of manufacturing
weapons and armor identical to that used on the Colony very easily.  

The referee must decide the types of transport available and equipment on board
the mothership that is capable of being put aboard the space plane Voyager. 
Although the Voyager has a large cargo space (500 m3) and can handle a variety
of large vehicles, it can only carry a one or two vehicles, depending upon the
percentage of available cargo space each takes up.  The following table gives a
good assortment of useful exploration and tactical vehicles, and equipment: 

                            Cargo    Total
    Description   Weight    % Vol   in Ship   Notes
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Light Passenger
    Zeppelin      1000kg     85%       1      Disassembled
    Lukis Mark IX
    Hover Tank   10000kg     60%       2      Full Ready Status
    Military ACV-APC
    Hovercraft    3000kg     68%       2      Full Ready Status
    Bridgeport Swift Songbirds
    Hovercraft    1000kg     32%       5      Fully Deployable
    Explorer
    ATV's         3000kg     49%       3      Fully Deployable
    Full Support
    Gunships      6000kg     52%       2      Partial Dis.
    Camp Equip.    500kg     10%      10      Packed
    Satelites      150kg      5%      50      Variety, packed
    Medical        500kg     10%      10      Variety, packed
    Scientific     300kg      6%      10      Variety, packed

** Variety indicates one or more each of the items described in the adventurers
handbook under equipment, and the appropriate heading.
  
Shuttle's Survival Kits:  Each kit weighs 26kg. It has the following equipment
in each:

Backpack:   Medkit, Hand Communicator, Lrg Life Form Detector,Farsee, Sampling
            Kit***, 7 compact rations, 1 ltr collapsable water carrier(full),
            Flares, metal mirror, compass, watch, firestarter, respirator,
            biomonitor, Goggles, machete, knife, Arno-Five-Fifteen 5mm pistol,
            box w/300 rnds.

*** The sampling kits are varied amoung the packs.

Each pack is attached to the top of the locker where each individual keeps his
or her own p-suit, hostile environment suit, and cold weather suit.  In this
adventure the shuttle's survival gear is not used but this is useful information
for future situations.




    TABLE I. Medieval Weapons and Armor       
                                              Melee       
    Weapon            | Length in| Wgt |Melee|Skill|      
    Description       | cm (Bulk)| kg  |Range| Mod.| DP   
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~|~~~~~|~~~~~|~~~~~|
    Axe, hatchet      |  40cm(1) |  2kg|short| -1  | 0.4 |
    Axe, long handled | 100cm(4) |  4kg|long | -2  | 0.6 |
    Axe, Battle       |+100cm(5) | +5kg|long | -3  | 0.7 |
    Dagger/Knives     |  25cm(0) |  2kg|short| +2  | 0.1 |
    Clubs(avg. Bulk=2)|  varies  |  v  |long | -1  | 0.4*|
    Hammer            |  40cm(0) |  2kg|short| -1  | 0.4*|
    Hammer, War       | 100cm(4) |  4kg|med  | -2  | 0.5*|
    Mace              |  90cm(4) |  6kg|med  | -2  | 0.5*|
    Machete           |  60cm(1) |  2kg|long | +1  | 0.3 |
    Mattox            | 100cm(4) |  6kg|long | -3  | 0.8 |
    Mattox, War       | 200cm(6) |  8kg|xlong| -3  | 0.8 |
    Sabre             |  95cm(1) |  2kg|long | +1  | 0.3 |
    Scimitar          |  80cm(1) |  3kg|long | +0  | 0.4 |
    Spear             | 200cm(4) |  3kg|xlong| -1  | 0.2 |
    Sword, Bastard    | 110cm(4) |  4kg|long | -2  | 0.5 |
    Sword, Broad      |  90cm(3) |  3kg|long | +1  | 0.4 |
    Sword, Short      |  70cm(2) |  3kg|med  | +1  | 0.3 |
    Sword, Two-Handed | 150cm(5) |  5kg|xlong| -3  | 0.7 |
    ------------------------------------------------------
    Medieval      | R |Aimed| D |
    Tech          | O |Fire | P |
    Ranged Wpns   | F |Range| V |        Notes
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~|~~~~~|~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Bow, Short    | 1 | 25m |0.2|Load/Fire = 1 action
    Bow, Long     | 1 | 40m |0.2|Load/Fire = 1 action
    Bow, Compound | 1 | 60m |0.2|Load/Fire = 1 action
    Crossbow, lt  |1/2| 80m |0.3|Recocking/Loading = 1 action
    Crossbow, hvy |1/2|100m |0.3|Recocking/Loading = 1 action
    Dagger/Knife  | 1 | 10m |0.1|Throw = 1 action
    Sling         | 1 | 15m |0.2|Load/Throw = 1 action
    Spear         | 1 | 15m |0.2|Throw = 1 action

    "Melee" skill is a broad category and must be specified, i.e.
    Melee-1 Hand Edged, would cover the weapons which are one
    handed and edged.  Ranged-Bows would cover long, short or
    compound bows but not crossbows.

    Melee Skill                 Ranged Low Tech Weapon Skills
    ~~~~~~~~~~~                 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Hand to Hand                Bows
    1 handed edged              Crossbows
    1 handed BT                 missiles, (slings, darts, etc)
    2 handed edged              Thrown (knives, stars, etc)
    2 handed BT                 Thrown (others, spears, etc.)
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    r = rigid            Init.
    Armor/Material| AV  | Pen.| Wt |Area protected on Hit Loc.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~|~~~~~|~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 r  Helmet        | 0.2 | NA  | 2kg|#1(Head), Steel & Leather
 r  Shield        | 0.2 | -1  | 4kg|#9/#10 (either arm) Steel
    Chainmail     | 0.1 | -1  | 8kg|#2,#3,#4(Torso)
    Chain Hauberk | 0.1 | -2  |10kg|#2,#3,#4,#5,#6,#9&#10 (Coat)
    Scalemail     | 0.3 | -1  | 9kg|#2,#3,#4(Torso)
 r  Breastplate   |  1  | -1  | 8kg|#2,#3,#4(Torso)
 r  Greaves       | 0.2 | -1  | 2kg|#7,#8,#9,#10 (lower legs/arms)
 r  Full Plate    | 0.3 | -4  |20kg|(All)(includes helmet)

Once the landing area is decided upon, and the base camp is set up, the
exploration can begin.  Have the "Captain" (or if he is an NPC, have him have
someone (a PC) do this) work out the plan they will follow to accomplish their
objectives, but first make sure they know what their objective is in the first
place.

Outline of Adventure:

Things Needed:  NPC's of Crowle's colony.  There should be three city locations,
one being a keep, another a ruin, and a last the central colony with big castle
and lots of poeple.  Use some old D&D maps etc.  There should be a large gulf,
with the three city locations equidistant from each other and lot of wilderness. 
This crescent shaped gulf shoud be like a 1/2 saucer, with a mountainous barrier
separating the inhabited lands from a vast desert.  No other continents.

Encounters:

o  "Bandits" could strike any walking disquised PC's heading toward the keep.

o  A volcano could erupt, sending panicked nasty creatures toward PC's.  

These two should hold the combat monsters for a while.

The rest should be role playing, have the PC's meet with the locals and convince
them of trade agreement.  The "King" will agree if they can take care of this
nasty "dragon" that keeps causing them greif.

Improvise.  I've given you the bare bones.  This way any players who also read
this won't see anything vital.  I'd suggest having the dragon holed up in the
ruined city.

[This is the end of what I received -- James]

-------- TML Message #1765 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1765
Date:    Tue, 13 Nov 90 14:11 EST
From: PHB100@psuvm.psu.edu
Subject: mail bursters

Hi all,

   Since I get the TML on an IBM 3090-600S running VM/XA, I need a burster that
will run on this type of machine.  I can't find any built-in command for it.
If anyone who uses these machines know of one, please let me know.  If you have
one written, please send it to me.  If not, I'll attempt to write one myself.

   I will write it in REXX (IBM's command language) unless I get overwhelming
(more than 1 :+) response for another language.   Please don't ask for FORTRAN
cause I flat-out won't do it  :).  Requests for Pascal or C cheerfully accepted
but I'd prefer REXX.

   Should I post it to the List?  or just mail it to whomever asks for it?
How about a ruling from the list administrator...James?

>
>Paul, I think that you can use MH on your machine - use that
>to burst each message and then automatcially refile the vehicle
>designs elsewhere - they all have a distinctive Subject: .
>
Is this me or another Paul.  "MH" is not a valid command on VM systems (that I
can find).  I guess I'll just have to write a burster...

========= James says: =======

>
>What Carl Rigney proposed is this: all the messages that have starship
>designs are sorted to the end of the digest.  What do you all think of
>this? Unless there is outcry or a better idea, I am hoping to implement
>this before the middle of next week.  Personally, I don't find the
>complete designs offensive, as long as they are placed at the end.
>
I wouldn't mynd this (since I seem to be one of the problem children :). It
would help, until I get a burster written...I can just stop reading when I come
to the first design message.

Thanx for putting up with me.

- - -------

Disclaimer:  This is me.  Do I sound like anyone else?

Paul Baughman          PHB100@psuvm.bitnet

-------- TML Message #1766 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1766
Date:    Tue, 13 Nov 90 14:51 EST
From: PHB100@psuvm.psu.edu
Subject: black globes,

>TML nightly     Mon Nov 12 20:32:19 PST 1990    Volume 11 : Issue 16
>
>> In any case, to refer to the current Travller black globe as "the ultimate
>> defense" when it will eventually overload and destroy your ship in a huge
>> explosion is, in my opinion, overstating the case a trifle.
>
Well, since I called it the ultimate defense, I'll have to retract the
statement.  I didn't know it blows up when overloaded.  I still prefer the
Langston Field version that gets rid of absorbed energy by blackbody radiation.
Can't hide that very well.  I also like the fact that it (the LF) doesn't
necessarily blow you to atoms, the field generator will go, and depending on
how badly it was overloaded, the ship *could* be destroyed, but it might only
lose the LF generator.  It could also be anywhere in between.

>I'd refer to the MT white globe as "the ultimate defense".  Getting one is
>a neat trick, though! ;-)

Huh?  wazzat?

>
>The way I'd handle this in game terms is, the weapons skill allows you
>to strip and clean the weapon, and replace components with other parts
>taken intact from another weapon or a spares store.  The nature of the
>component would dictate the task difficulty level; e.g. replacing a
>piece of the trigger mechanism is not as easy as replacing the barrel.

yep.  I agree.

>Globe is turned on the ship can't fire, communicate or maneuver. The Ship

Why can't it maneuver?  With reactionless thrusters which don't emit anything
to be absorbed by the field, you should be able to maneuver all you want.  Of
course, you can't *SEE* where you are going, and running into an asteroid
(after you drop the field) could ruin your day, but what is the handwaving-
pseudo-technical explanation for why you can't maneuver?

- - -------

Disclaimer:  This is me.  Do I sound like anyone else?

Paul Baughman          PHB100@psuvm.bitnet

-------- TML Message #1767 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1767
Date:     Tue, 13 Nov 90 12:51:01 EST
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  What Do You Like?

For those of you who are interested in responding, I would appreciate a direct
reply (even as a carbon copy) in the interest of getting a reply back as fast
as possible to DGP:

A PLEA FOR ASSISTANCE

At the urging of several illustrious members of this group, I recently sent my
entire collection of vehicle designs to our friends at DGP, to see if they were
interested in publishing any of them for the benefit of those unfortunates who
don't have access to INTERNET.  I received the bundle back today with a note
from Mr. Fugate stating that he didn't have time to wade through the entire heap
and would I please resubmit the 25 best designs at my earliest convenience, etc.

This brings up an interesting question: what constitutes "best"?  So, since some
of you have been uysing these things in your games, I'm going to ask you to tell
me which ones you think should be published--presumably the ones that are the
"most useful" to you.  I could also see picking ones that are interesting 
and/or unusual, even if you haven't got a use for them just yet. This may end
up as a running column in the Journal, which would be amusing.

Thanks in advance.

Rob Dean

-------- TML Message #1768 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1768
Date:     Tue, 13 Nov 90 13:15:44 EST
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Black Globes again

One more round of comments on the black globe.  I went and actually looked up 
the rules for blacvk globes today, and came to the following conclusions:

     The new rules really do say that gravity is absorbed.
     The new rules are also fairly clear in intending that the energy that
        is absorbed is useless for any other purpose.
     The energy absorption system is screwy, using "energy" and "power"
        interchangeably without explicit reference to period of time, which
        is a bit of a problem.
     A 100,000ton Jump-4 battleship or cruiser or whatever will have 27000kl
       of energy sink, which can absorb 17,550,000 MW (I know--one is energy,
       the other power--it dopesn't match.  See above)
     Ignoring the units problem, this means that this ship will not overload 
       and explode with the globe turned fully on until the ship is hit by
       78 Factor-9 nuclear missile salvos, or 59 hits by a Meson Gun T, which
       isn't as bad as I though it might be.  However, a flickering globe is
       still only worth 6 lvels (-2) of armor for each 10% of capability.

Overall then, a black globe is probably most cost effective on a large ship
which is already heavily armored, where the increase in danger is still worth
the enormous increase in cost to uparmor the ship.

I still don't like them.  (-:

Rob Dean

-------- TML Message #1769 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1769
Date:     Tue, 13 Nov 90 13:49:34 EST
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Displacement

TONNAGE BLUES, or Afloat on a Sea of Liquid Hydrogen

We'll probably never come up with the real reason that Traveller elected to
use a definition of tonnage volume based on liquid hydrogen, all those long 
years ago.  However, as anyone who has fooled around with vehicle designs will
tell you, even under High Guard starships were frequently 50% or more fuel
by volume.  This makes it not wholly unreasonable to base your rating system 
around a fact which is almost as pervasive as the weight of water is in the
real world.

Rob Dean

-------- TML Message #1770 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1770
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 90 16:05:08 -0500
From: "T. L. Hayes" <al646@cleveland.freenet.edu>
Subject: Reactionless Drives



     I have been following the discussion on correcting the physics of 
Traveller.  This is something to which I can relate.  Being a physicist,
it annoys me that games often ignore physics in places where there is
no reason to ignore it.  Obviously FTL travel can cause some physics
problems depending on how you handle it.  Traveller does what most people
and games do these days - FTL exists because you "leave" the universe as
we now know it and enter jump space (hyper space, warp space, ...).  

     However, what I'm writing to address is the discussion on maneuver
drives.  These have been referred to as "reactionless" drives and people
have been trying to decide how one can have a reactionless drive.  Before
I give my version of the answer, lets step back for a moment and consider
what is going on.

     Maneuver drives get their power from fusion power plants.  In Traveller
the preferred material for fusion is hydrogen and the end result is
helium.  This brings up the first question - where does the superheated
helium go?  The best place is out the engine exhaust but then you don't
have a reactionless drive.  This means that the helium is somehow contained
and cooled then dumped someplace or maybe the hot helium is just vented into
space or used as fine adjustment thrusters the point is something has to be
done with the end product.  I would shoot it out the exhaust and take
advantage of the extra thrust (conservation of momentum you know).  Getting
back to reactionless drives - you now have some (large) amount of energy 
that you want to use for propelling the ship.  How do you do it?  Simple
expend the energy out the exhaust.  Since this is energy and not particles
this would (in some definition) qualify as a "reactionless" drive.  Look
at Star Wars space ships, notice the bright glow in the exhaust of the 
engines and how it gets VERY bright just before "accelerating to light
speed"?  This is still conservation of momentum (energy/speed of light).

     If you prefer some sort of gravity based propulsion system then
consider this:  Gravity can be viewed as a curvature of space or the result
of exchanging gravitons (a form of electromagnetic radiation).  If we 
look at gravitons then anti-gravity is the generation of anti-gravitons
which cause two masses to repell each other.  Then your back to exhausting
electromagnetic radiation (granted a rather interesting form of EM).  So
consider adjusting the curvature of space so that you ship (or grav-
vehcile) will slide down the "gravitational hill".  To get a craft to 
hover you would need to "flatten" the already curved space near a planet.
To rise you would need curve space so that the gravitational potential
is lower in the direction that you want to go.  Assuming that some kind
of machine can be made that can efficiently exchange energy for space
curvature then this is a truely reactionless drive.  All you need to do is
take the energy from the power plants and counteract the gravitation
potential.  The problem is (if I remember by Traveller right) that the
books say that gravity (anti-gravity) drives work better near large masses
(I assume they think you need the gravity to push against) but if you are
curving space, your drives would work better in flat space where you don't
need to nullify existing curvatures (ie far from planets).  However, if
you take the graviton approach then the drives will act like the book says
because the force (repulsive) is a function of the separation.

     In my games, I usually don't try to explain such things but when I
have to I use the graviton explaination.  To me it seems more plausable.
Clearly, "reactionless" maneuver drives is another place where the physics
has to take a backseat to playability or you say that maneuver drives are
not reactionless and be done with it.  In any event this is my two cents
worth on the matter.  Comments?

Tony L. Hayes

- - --
T.L.Hayes                  |
MIT/Lincoln Laboratory     |
Lexington, MA              |

-------- End of TML Messages --------


-------- TML Message #1771 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1771
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 90 13:44:25 GMT
From: grue@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au
Subject: all sorts of things....

hiya,

>Date: Sun, 11 Nov 90 21:39:24 -0900
>From: George William Herbert <gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu>
>Subject: (1749) Fixing Maneuver Drives...
>
>W. Dow Reider says:

>Re: newtonian violations...
>	There's a neat explanation for how to get reactionless drives...
>some work by one Robert L. Forward into negative matter shows that with
>some negative-mass nearby you can move by interaction with the negative mass
>but not using exhaust.  If you want to extrapolate those results into playing
>with gravity i just bet that you can get away with reactionless drives.

>	Robert Dean thought that a straight thrust-based system would work 
>better... I agree, but pose a question: is it worth introducing incompatability
>if we have means to remain compatable ?

How about the following idea (would one of the physics types verify if this
is possible):
	You generate a LOT of energy,
	convert the energy into mass (E=MC^2, thus matter and energy
				are really the same) and
	then throw the mass out the back.

	You'd have a reaction-based drive that didn't consume matter
	(except that the energy generation would use up heaps of matter).

Would it be better to use your power plant fuel as propellent?


Now onto a more serious issue (sorry if this sounds a bit flamish, it isn't
really ment to be):

>Date: Mon, 12 Nov 90 13:40:13 EST
>From: Robert P Poole <tarquin@athena.mit.edu>
>Subject: (1756) TDR, TeX, character generation

>I don't recall who voted "no" on TeX, but I have to say this guy doesn't know
>what he's talking about.  TeX is not cumbersome.  Sending proprietary files
>formatted for one word processor or another and trying to convert them is
>cumbersome.  With TeX, you send the source file as plain text, and the other
>person can make instant use of it.  I assume that the people on this list are
>intelligent enough to see the advantage of using the net to write this thing
>up.

I would vote very strongly NO for TeX.
My vote would be for plain text (maybe include a postscript version that looks
nicer).

My major objection to TeX is that I'd have to learn something which I have
no desire to know anything about.  Even with the macros suggested,
I'd still have to learn something new.  I'd also have to know how to access
TeX on whatever system I was using (if it even HAD TeX, not everybody has).

What happens if I would like to boldface titles?  Creation of tables (rather
than formatted text)?  Subscripts?  Superscrips?

The point is I would have to learn how to do these things.  I have no desire
to learn a user-alien text formating system.  I also realise that the nice
word processors that I do own are not going to be any good to most of the
people since they use their own internal formats.

Everybody can use text (ASCII) files, everybody should be able to read them
and print them.  So what if they don't come out quite so nicely?  If we
seriously want to PUBLISH the results of the re-design then we can format
the manuscript after it has been written.  If it is as easy as was made out,
this reformat should pose no problems whatsoever.


>Look, let's be fair and realistic.  Fair in that everyone who wants to should
>be able to work on part of the project and have input.  Realistic in that if we
>only let a few select people do the actual work, it will never get done.

Letting everybody be able to provide input is exactly the reason that we should
use a format that everybody has.  I say again that not everybody has access
to TeX.

[
 I should note here, that I personally don't own TeX in any form.  I do have
 access to TeX and would be willing to learn enough about it if TDR was going
 to be distributed in that format.  However, I do not desire to learn it.
]


>About automating the generation rules:  Good.  I am glad someone suggested
>this.  We should make executables available to PC and Mac users for character
>generation, star system generation, starship design, and world map generation.
>We should also make the sourcecode available for people to port to other
>systems.

I think that I was the one who suggested it (which I didn't really do).  I
do think that this is a really good idea.  There may be difficulties modifying
existing programs to work with any new stuff we create.  The ship design
program (coming soon, it is being beta tested ---- sort of) should be able
to take most modifications without too many problems.  I haven't looked into
the other programs available to see how hard they are to modify.  Hopefully,
the changes will not be too sever and they can be modified.  Rewriting from
scratch will be a major headache.  Even modifications can be unpleasent.
(Does anybody realise the quantity of data present in the MT books?  As an
example the ship design program uses a data table that is quite big wc gives
the following figures (the table is human readable text with comments included):

    2138   21011  117516 dat.tbl

I realise that this table contains a lot of redundant stuff because I tried
to capture the special cases in the data table and not in the program (which
is why I believe it will be easy enough to modify).

This task we are undertaking is looking to be a VERY large one.



							Pauli
seeya

Paul Dale               | Internet/CSnet:            grue@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au
Dept of Computer Science| Bitnet:       grue%batserver.cs.uq.oz.au@uunet.uu.net
Uni of Qld              | JANET:           grue%batserver.cs.uq.oz.au@uk.ac.ukc
Australia, 4072         | EAN:                          grue@batserver.cs.uq.oz
                        | UUCP:           uunet!munnari!batserver.cs.uq.oz!grue
f4e6g4Qh4++             | JUNET:                     grue@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au

-------- TML Message #1772 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1772
Subject: Internal consistency and weapon skills
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 90 17:27:19 X
From: Iain Fogg <iain@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au>


There's been considerable discussion in the TML recently regarding
weapon skill categories. Allow me to put in my two cents worth.

Consistency! When I look at a game system I look for consistency.
Essentially, I'm after an equivalent level of abstraction in all aspects
of the game. Individuals who argue for weapon skills in individual
weapons clearly do not. For example, if you believe that there should be
different skills for handling an automatic snub pistol and a gauss
pistol, would you also expect to see separate skills for repairing a
ship's maneuver drive and am automobile? Except for weapon skills,
most people are prepared to accept a high level of abstraction,
because otherwise the number of skills, by necessity, explodes.
Why does this differ for weapons? Beats the hell out of me.

As a real world example, I served for three years in the Australian
Army Reserve. At that time the standard issue infantry weapon was a
7.62mm SLR. We also learnt to handle the M-16. While the stripping and
cleaning of both these weapons differed quite markedly, they were not
that different when they were fired (the SLR had a bigger recoil).
Therefore, I argue that the justification for introducing individual
weapon skills because they are made differently is totally inconsistent
with the rest of the MegaTraveller game system.

My basic message is that many people are looking to complicate a
simple activity. Fire one rifle, you've fired them all. Fire one handgun,
you've fired them all. Just as with the mechanical skill - fixed one
engine, you've fixed them all. Consistency!

Iain.

-------- TML Message #1773 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1773
Date:     Wed, 14 Nov 90 0:49:47 PST
From: Orcinus orca <jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu>
Subject:  All sorts of things

Black Globes:
Someone said the energy absorbed can't be used in the new rules.
Ignoring that, it should still be advantageous to fire all your
weapons while inside the BG.  Since most of your weapons aren't
operating at 100% efficiency, a lot of that energy is going to
be converted to heat, most of which will heat up the ship and
thus not place a strain on the capacitors from reabsorbed energy.

That is, assuming the energy to fire the weapons came from the
capacitors.

P.S.  If you don't like the physics violations in Traveller,
don't even think about White Globes.  It's basically a Black
Globe which absorbs all incoming energy, yet somehow the
person/ship inside can see out.

Reactionless Drives:
The greatest benefit of reactionless drives is that you dont'
have to solve a differential equation to figure out the speed,
range, and acceleration of your ship when you have x tons of
fuel left.  Is there a way to achive this simplicity with
Fusion Drives?  And keep in mind a ship loses a good deal of
mass during a jump.

Gravity Field Warps:
Is this truly mass-independent?  If you can generate a gravity
field with x amount of energy, and it doesn't matter how big
the mass influenced by the field is, with a sufficiently large
mass, you can gain more kinetic energy than x-- another perpetual
motion machine.

btw, I like the idea of a gravity field warp (it's the unofficial
explaination for the Star Trek "warp drive").  It always reminds
me of the cartoons where someone is holding the top of a door or
birdbath and pushing the bottom with his/her/its feet, and the
door/birdbath keeps moving forward.

TDR:
You need not start a company immediately to publish it.  Just
make sure the stuff you send to GDW is in parts (pretty simple
considering the amount of overhaul proposed).  Then have GDW
sign some legal form saying the authors have full rights to
any future publication.  Then if people love TDR in the GDW
publications, you can work out future details through snail
mail and have full rights to a *complete* version of TDR.

I agree with ASCII.  Anybody can read it and print it out on
the fanciest printing resources he has access to.  And if you
guys do eventually publish, most printing shops have to convert
it by hand onto their own machines anyway.  I think the stuff
that prints Tex at 1200+ dpi costs about $4/page.  Dunno about
bulk rates.

Is there going to be TDR mailing list?  Will it go the way
of past mailing lists whose problems were, as someone told me,
"All they ever did was talk about considering discussing the
planning to lay the foundation of starting to begin to get
something done."
- - --
John H. Kim
jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu
uunet!jarthur!jokim

-------- TML Message #1774 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1774
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Black Globes
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 90 9:45:44 GMT

Paul Baughman writes:
> (Paul doesn't mention it, but I, Adrian Hurt, wrote):
> >I'd refer to the MT white globe as "the ultimate defense".  Getting one is
> >a neat trick, though! ;-)
> 
> Huh?  wazzat?

I'm sure I read about this in a MT manual, which isn't here right now for me
to check.  Instead of absorbing energy, it reflects it.  It isn't much use as
a cloaking device, of course.  I can't remember whether or not it allows you
to fire out through it.  I think it is available at some ridiculous tech level
(TL 20+, maybe).

Actually, firing out of a black globe shouldn't be a serious problem.  You
synchronise your fire with the flickering.  It might be necessary to have a
slightly longer than usual period that the globe is off, to allow some fire
(especially missiles) to get through.  At the simplest, have an interrupter
circuit fitted into the generator which turns the globe off, permits weapons
to fire, then turns the globe back on.  The drawback, of course, is that the
enemy might hit you while you're firing.  This could be accidental (roll
dice to see if the enemy got lucky when he fired) or intentional (the enemy
needs to make some sort of Sensors task roll).

> (Someone else not credited wrote):
> >Globe is turned on the ship can't fire, communicate or maneuver. The Ship
> 
> Why can't it maneuver?  With reactionless thrusters which don't emit anything
> to be absorbed by the field, you should be able to maneuver all you want.

And there's your answer.  This rule, like so much else, is lifted from good
old High Guard.  And in those days, no-one had heard of reactionless thrusters.

Yet again, I say: ignore the garbage about reactionless thrusters.  They're
silly, they violate the law of conservation of energy, and they add nothing
to the game except inconsistencies like the above.

- - -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

-------- TML Message #1775 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1775
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: COACC Engines vs Grav-modules
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 90 13:12:07 MET

  Here's what I got from a few minutes with a spreadsheet:

  Data is for enough Grav modules to reach the stated thrust and enough 
powerplant to provide them with energy.

Grav modules the best at TL
Thrust:	20tons		50tons		195tons	
TL	tons	KCr	tons	KCr	tons	KCr
9	40,8	2040,0	42,0	2100,0	47,8	2390,0
10	8,6	900,0	9,5	1650,0	13,9	5275,0
11	4,6	700,0	5,5	1450,0	13,7	5265,0
12	2,0	6080,0	5,0	15200,0	7,8	58695,0
13	1,2	6053,3	3,0	15133,3	6,8	58694,0
14	1,2	6053,3	3,0	15133,3	6,8	58694,0
15	0,7	6026,7	1,7	15066,7	5,2	58630,0

Grav modules the best except for the 300kCr per kl ones:)
Thrust:	20tons		50tons		195tons	
TL	tons	KCr	tons	KCr	tons	KCr
9	40,8	2040,0	42,0	2100,0	47,8	2390,0
10	8,6	900,0	9,5	1650,0	13,9	5275,0
11	4,6	700,0	5,5	1450,0	13,7	5265,0
12	3,8	660,0	5,5	1450,0	13,7	5265,0
13	2,2	606,7	5,5	1516,7	9,8	5135,0
14	2,2	606,7	5,5	1516,7	9,8	5135,0
15	1,1	553,3	2,8	1383,3	7,8	5069,0

Just standard grav modules.
Thrust:	20tons		50tons		195tons	
TL	tons	KCr	tons	KCr	tons	KCr
9	40,8	2040,0	42,0	2100,0	47,8	2390,0
10	8,8	440,0	12,0	600,0	33,8	1690,0
11	4,8	240,0	12,0	600,0	33,8	1690,0
12	4,8	240,0	12,0	600,0	33,8	1690,0
13	3,8	239,0	7,0	433,3	27,3	1690,0
14	3,8	239,0	7,0	433,3	27,3	1690,0
15	2,1	173,3	3,7	266,7	14,3	1040,0

  This table is inacurate in two areas:
  1. The minimum powerplat volumes at lower TLs make it uneconomic to make
vehicles with as small thrust as less than 200 tons.

  2. I'm not 100% sure that I got the scale efficienct right.

  COACC engines, give 195t thrust for 4t of engine that costs 300kCr (Fusion 
Rocket) or 50t of thrust for 4t of engine (High bypass Turbofan) (add 10t if
an AB is used)

  The basic thing still stands: Many 'ordinary' engines give as good thrust
to weight ratio as Grav modules and is usually far cheaper. The drawback is 
very high fuel consumption, except for the fusion rocket.

(Sorry, have to rush, I've got a Electronics-3 class in 2 minutes:)

- - -bertil-
- - -- 
"Words on the net aren't usually worth the paper they are written on."

-------- TML Message #1776 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1776
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 90 08:58:10 -0800
From: "Ted Kim (Random Dude" <tek@lanai.cs.ucla.edu>
Subject: bursting & digest format


Occasionally, when bursting the digest (even with James's new burst
program), I end up with resent messages that have inappropriate
headers. In particular, the "From:" field reads that it is from me.
For example, when bursting article 1770 in TML Nightly Volume 12,
Issue 9, I end up with such an erroneous "From:" line. 

I think this is because the corresponding digest article is missing
header fields and the mailer decided to put something in that field
(me). For example, article 1770 header is missing the "From:" line.

> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 90 16:05:08 -0500
> Reply-To: al646@cleveland.freenet.edu
> Subject: (1770) Reactionless Drives

I assume the digest article is missing a field, because no such field
existed in the original message. This is somewhat puzzling as I
believe RFC822 requires an authenticated originator "From:" field.

Regardless of why it's missing, can the TML software back at TML HQ be
modified to stick in a "From:" field if it's missing in a message?

[Actually, the messages do come in with a From line.  The TML digester
deletes it if there is a Reply-To! I see now this was a silly decision
on my part, and starting tonight, the From lines will always remain
unmolested -- James]

- - -ted

Ted Kim                           Internet: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu
UCLA Computer Science Department  UUCP:     ...!{uunet|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!tek
3804C Boelter Hall                Phone:    (213)206-8696
Los Angeles, CA 90024             FAX:      (213)825-2273

-------- TML Message #1777 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1777
Subject: TML Admin apologizes again
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 90 10:22:24 PST
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR>


I'd like to apologize again for the problems last night.  It was
programmer error.  Everything will be back to normal tonight.

I realize that not only were the barrage of tiny digests annoying, but
that the multiple copies of the same thing was confusing.  I also
realize that some of you pay to download these messages, and cannot read
them until they finally get into your computer.  I also realize that
some of you are forced into reading all this mail whether you want to or
not -- at 1200 baud.

If it's any consolation, I am receiving piles of mail bounces off of
inactive accounts, so I am not getting a moment's peace.  Guess I'm
getting appropriate punishment.  I'm also answering individual inquiries
of the form "wha' happen'?".

In the mean time, I will offer to resend any digests to anyone of you
who asks.

We now return you to your normal nightly and biweekly 50K-byte digest
digesting (unless I screw it up adding the code to sort starship designs
to the end of the digest).

James
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Traveller Mailing List Administrator	     James T Perkins @ Tektronix, Inc
traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com	     Beaverton, Oregon, USA
uunet!metolius.wr.tek.com!traveller-request  "Load Auto/Evade, Beowulf!"

-------- TML Message #1778 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1778
Subject: TML Digests are now sorted
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 90 12:23:13 PST
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR>


TMLers:

Well, after much testing (I figured out how to test the digester
successfully, which should help avoid things like last night), the TML
digests are now sorted as I talked about in previous messages.  The
recipe is this:

	beginning of digest: messages smaller than 6K bytes
	middle of digest:    messages larger than 6K bytes
	end of digest:       vehicle designs, regardless of message size

Notice that long (non-vehicle design) messages are kept in the middle of
the digest -- this keeps all the snappy dialogue at the front.

A vehicle design is any message which contains 10 or more of the
following strings, ignoring case, with * a wildcard that matches any
number of arbitrary characters (in other words, this very message should
qualify as a vehicle design, as would one that listed craftid 10 times):

craftid:  Disp*=    power:    Loco*:    Sensor*:  Def*:     Crew=     
hull:     Config*=  Dur*=     Comm*:    Off*:     Control:  Accom*:   

TMLers, Let me know if this is a boon or a bust to you.

James
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Traveller Mailing List Administrator	     James T Perkins @ Tektronix, Inc
traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com	     Beaverton, Oregon, USA
uunet!metolius.wr.tek.com!traveller-request  "Load Auto/Evade, Beowulf!"

-------- TML Message #1779 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1779
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 90 16:31:35 -0700
From: FELLOWS STEVEN B -5 CR <sfellows@slate.mines.colorado.edu>
Subject: Number 5: GET ON TRACK!

I have been reading this mailing list for over a year now, and after
subscribing to a few now defunct mailing lists and reading internet news
I can safely say that the idea of TDR is approaching that of oblivion.  

What!

I commit heresy?

Actually, let me just list in order of events what I have seen most of
these *ideas* go , and then my response on what we should do:

1)  There is a mailing list or group that has a common theme of gaming.

2)  After a certain amount of time of some realing good posts someone posts
the idea that we should all write a game.

3)  For about 3 days (I'm very serious about that number, not 2 or 4, but
3), people start posting ideas of what can be improved.

4)  On the fourth day someone suggests a name for the project.


******So far, so good.  ********

5)  Then the inevable group of posts start:

    a)   Copyright infringement laws.  This stream discourages people some.
    b)   Making money off of our work.  This stream discourages other
people even more.
    c)   Who is going to be in charge, and who does what.  This stream
really discourages people, because the very least they want is a deadline.
Remember, for most of us this is a hobby, albeit, an extremely entertaining
one (some believe ranks right up there with sex and food gluttonly).
    d)   "We should write computer programs that do all this."  Discourages
people who don't want to write computer programs, and don't care to drag a
computer to their session.
    e)   The formatting of the text.  Discourages people some , because we
are already receiving this mailing list, why does it have to be something
special again?  I mean, I am happy with getting this mailing list.  In the
same thread, I expect in 2 days, someone will say that a seperate offshoot
mailing list should be formed.  Irritates people, because now they have to
worry about more digests.
    

********DANGER*******

At this point, someone posts a letter, pleading with everybody else to get
on track.

{[

As one aside, I made a comment last Saturday during my groups Traveller
session (which started late, Sat at 1300, when it was suppose to start Fri
at 1800):   "All we seem to be able to decide in is our group indecision
and to put off making a decision for 2 hours."

This amused everybody then , and I think applies to the situation at this
point.  (By the way, our problem was what shall we do for lunch and
dinner?).

]}

AND, at this point , that poster is generally ignored.

6)  About 25% of the original people who liked the idea start on something.
50% continue arguing about the points in number 5.
25% go on to something else.

This all  happens about 1 week after the above problems start.

7)  After a while, everybody goes on to something else, except for the one
guy who originally posted the idea.


8)  AND, after a while, we are left with lots of posts concerning a
nonexistant game we were going to work on, and a lot of people wondering
what ever became of the project.



**********NOVEL  IDEA************

The original idea was proposed that we examine the MegaTraveller system,
and post our revisions of what each section should be.  Improve the system.

(At this point everybody is nodding their head and wondering why I am
wasting bandwith).

We are starting on number 5, folks, and pretty soon we will be at step
number 8.


Why don't we just post our revisions.  Now, we have some guidance and a
goal.  It is the same as before, except for a general theme.

The problem with number 5 issues, is that we are not a company.  This is
not our means of making a living.   At number 5, we are already discussing
something that should be discussed AFTER we have come up with some really
nifty ideas.

1)If you want to put it in Tex, LaTeX, Word, *ruff, *roff, or even SWAHILLI,
do it then.  It will come to you off this mailing list, and you can format
it for your own desire and tastes.  

Me:  I will take it into ASCII, dump it to a NexT machine, and then use the
Laser WRiter to print off a nifty looking copy.  And I will dump a copy to
the MAC for future use.

2)Computer programs.  Those who want them, go ahead and write them.  Noone
is stopping you.  Just don't tell me that I have to write a computer
program.

3)Copyright and making money.  Let me just say one thing....
So far on this list we have discussed the game, and played with changes.
We have not done anything illegal.  These posts are for our use, and whoever
we want to distribute them to for free.  Hell, if you charge money for a
letter I wrote I probably won't care.
  But, if any of us find out that someone has published our material
without asking us, then they will never , ever, get anything published
again.  All a publisher needs is a plagarist, to cause them headaches.
And, those of us who see our stuff in print, will cause those headaches:
end of matter.

4)Who is in charge, and who does what.  As for who is in charge, I don't
care.  We are just a group having fun.  Maybe there should be people who
keep us on track and remind us of things that need to be done.  These
people will appoint themselves.   

As for who does what, who cares .  If we see it needs to be done, and if it
needs to be done badly enough, it will get done .  (Whoa! Awful sentence!)
As for me, I said I would do some stuff with Trade and Commerce, because I
want it for my campaign.

If the material that someone writes is not very good, we will discuss it and 
try to improve it or rework it (or ignore it and drop it).  AS WE HAVE DONE
MANY TIMES IN THE PAST.

Folks, IF YOU WANT TO DISCUSS THE ISSUES OF NUMBER 5 IN THE FUTURE, PLEASE
JUST POST AS YOUR SUBJECT   "NUMBER 5:" AND THEN I WILL KNOW TO SKIP IT,
FOR IT WILL BE A WASTE OF TIME.

When we have a bunch of stuff collected together, maybe then we should
worry about what  do with it beyond our group.  

Thank you for your time in reading this, I will now proceed back to discussing
the game and any improvements or whatever....

Steven B. Fellows
sfellows@slate.mines.colorado.edu

-------- TML Message #1780 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1780
Date: 14 Nov 90 18:42:00 EDT
From: "NUCENG::CRAIG" <craig%nuceng.decnet@pine.circa.ufl.edu>
Subject: Stuff for sale

For Sale/Trade :

Journal of Traveller's Aid Society :   3$/4$ each

7,9,15,17,18,21, Best of 1 and 3

Traveller Logbook (JG)                 $2

Astrogators Chartbook (JG)             $2

Ley Sector  (JG)                       $2

Ley Sector Guidebook (JG)              $2

Simba Safari (JG)                      $2

Starships & Spacecraft (JG)            $2

Traveller Referee Screen (JG)          $.50

Book 3 Worlds and Adventures           $2

Book 4 Mercenary                       $2

Book 5 High Guard                      $2

Book 8 Robots [new]                    $2

Supplement 2 Animal Encounters         $2

Supplement 4 Citzens of the Imperium   $2

Supplement 6 76 Patrons                $2

I am willing to listen to offers, and willing to trade in YOUR favor for 
items I am looking for.... i.e. DragonTales, The Finieous Treasury, old Dragon
Mags, Metaphosis Alpha.

You will be paying shipping. Unless you buy alot of stuff.

All Items are in very good to execellent condition. Ask AC@apple.com, We have
traded before.... He's knows the quality of items that I have.

Anyone know how much a IISS Ships Files would go for?

Craig@robot.nuceng.ufl.edu or zhou@beach.cis.ufl.edu

Warning: the first address has mailer problem at the worst times, please send 
2 message to both addresses if possible ... Thanxs...



-------- TML Message #1781 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1781
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 90 8:54:38 GMT
From: Jo Jaquinta <jaymin@maths.tcd.ie>
Subject: Sysgen4 README

	Sysgen4 & suite will be available shortly on the archive server.
There have been some link problems getting it to a UNIX system to post
and it will be over as soon as those are sorted out. In the meantime some
commonly asked questions:

>What printers does it support?
	The whole thing is designed to be run on anything. Consequently
all of its output is dumb terminal ascii. There are one or two programs
that use Epson FX-80 escape sequences and are clearly marked. Two programs
only run under TurboC and use graphics. Other than that nothing fancy.
I would very much like to see other front ends written and will gladly help
interested people.

>I use a [insert wide variety of hardware]
	Perhaps I should have asked what operating system and compiler
people use. It has been throughly tested under MS-DOS with Lattice and
TurboC compilers. It will be tested on a SUN running SUNOS (BSD 4.3).
The 

- - ---------
	This file contains a brief description of each of the programs.
See _progname_.OUT for a sample output. All the times mentioned in the
outputs were done on a 20MHz 386.
	To compile copy one of the make files to makefile and type "make
all". You will probably have to modify it a little. There is only one 
compile time constant that is in magic.h. Define bit16 if your compiler
compiles ints to sixteen bits and comment it off otherwise.
	Please mail whatever changes you have to make to get it running
so I can update the information. In particular I would like proper UNIX
makefiles.
				Jo Jaquinta
				jaymin@maths.tcd.ie
				November 1990

SYSGEN1 xx yy zz
	This is the level one system generation program. It produces basic
mainworld information.

SYSGEN2 xx yy zz
	This is the level two system generation program. It produces extended
system information.

SYSGEN3 xx yy zz
	This is the level three system generation program. It produces 
information comparable with world builder's handbook.

SYSGEN4 xx yy zz PlanetName
	This is the level four system generation program. It produces 
surface maps for a planet. It prints a high level map on the screen then
asks which triangle to expand. The triangles are numbered as in (A)
	 /\  /\  /\  /\  /\             	 /\
	/ 1\/ 2\/ 3\/ 4\/ 5\    	        /1 \
	\ 6/\ 7/\ 8/\ 9/\10/\ 	               /____\
(A)	 \/11\/12\/13\/14\/15\   	(B)   /\ 0  /\
	  \16/\17/\18/\19/\20/  	     /2 \  /3 \
	   \/  \/  \/  \/  \/  		    /____\/____\
	Next is will ask for a specifier. Each of the 20 big triangles is
expanded as per (B). If no specifier is given you get the whole large
trianlge. If a specifier of 1, say, is given you get the top little triangle.
This is recursive. Thus a specifier of 131 gives the top triangle of the lower
right triangle of the top triangle of the world triangle. Get it? Well,
play around with it and see.
	Lastly it asks for size. This is basically the number of times to expand
while printing. This size 1 is as is, size 2 is two on a side, size 3 is 4 on
a side, ....
	You can expand down to 16 triangles per side. The program doesn't
limit you but you will see it starting to get really ugly. Again, 
experimentation is the best approach.

TTIMES xx yy zz
	This program computes the travel times between planets of the
star at the given system. It only computes them for the top layer though.

DETPRINT xx yy zz PlanetName
	This prints out level 3 details on a planet in English. Included are
physical stats, principal cities, local customs, local religion, law levels,
tech levels and hex row seasonal temperatures.

ORIGIN xx yy zz NumberPeople
	This is for finding origins of NPCs. You give it a system and the
number of origin planets to find. It first calculates the total population
from the vacininy then randomly selects planets based on population. It uses
the level 2 figures for the entire system to determine population.

SCANNER xx yy zz
	This is a simple interactive region examining program. It uses the
ANSI clear screen command. While in it the keys X, x, Y, y, Z, z shift along
the given axis. a, A, or + transpose amongst the three axis. The screen 
maintains the level 1 info on the center system. 2 and 3 print the level 2
and level 3 information. Q quits the program.
	Really primitive.

TIMTBL xx yy zz time
	This prints a timetable for departing ships for a given system. The
time is measured in days and is an arbitrary number. The data is in the 
following format:
The Franhe (Arnelia) out of Sosen (9985 9981 10012)
	Departing 10 for Mouthit (9999 9998 10004)
	26 High berths 2 booked, 3 standby
	7 Low berths 2 booked

The _name_of_ship_ (_owning_corporation_) out of _origin_ (_coords_)
	Departing _day_ for _dest_ (_coords_)
	_total_ High berths _n_ booked [i.e. high passage], _n_ standby [i.e. 
middle passage]
	_n_ Low berths _n_ booked
The closer a ships gets to its departure date the fuller it will be. I used
it for a simple PBM game over the net that withered away.

SCAN xx yy zz
	This is really just a shell to search outward for whatever you want.
At the moment it prints where it is when a key is pressed and otherwise
searches for the mythical planet "Polo". Unless you are actually searching
for Polo you want to modify the program. It uses level 1 information but
that is easily changed (with the expense of speed). I have used it to look
for water worlds, high governments, etc... [see also capital].

NAME xx yy zz NumNames
	This uses the languages tables for the given system to produce
names. It produces as many names as given but the default is one.

HEXMAP xx yy zz time
	This is for producing a standard 15,000 mile per hex space map
for the area surrounding a planet. The time is optional to give settings
for the satelites. It doesn't seem to work for all planets correctly.
It first asks for the planet, then prints a list of the satelites and what
page they would appear on. It then asks for the number of pages wide and long.
It writes to the specified file in strips. Each is designed to fit on your
standard 8" paper in condenced mode. The strips can then be seperated and
taped together for your battle map.
	Try tracing the routes of the ships in coloured pencil as the
battle progresses. We did once and it was really worthwhile. Just like the
tatical maps in Star Wars!

PRMAP xx yy zz PlanetName
	This prints a triangle map of a planet surface. It prompts for a
file name to store the result in. It is straight ascii. It will ask for 
a triangle, specifier and size. See sysgen4 for an explanation of what 
these mean.

EPMAP xx yy zz PlanetName
	If under MS-DOS this prints a map to the PRN port. If under UNIX
you will want to change the line in the file or else a file called PRN will
be created. The graphics are printed with standard Epson FX-80 compatable
outputs. It will ask for a triangle, specifier and size. See sysgen4 for
an explanation of what these mean.

TCMAP xx yy zz PlanetName
	This is completely analagous to PRMAP except it prints the output
on the screen. It is only compilable under TurboC.

SECPRNT xx yy zz
	This prints a 10x10x10 "sector" starting with the coordinates given.
It uses Epson FX-80 compatable escape sequences for italics, and underligning
(to indicate POP of worlds). Waits for a keypress between pages.

CAPITAL xx yy zz
	This is similar to scan except it searches a 10x10x10 "sector" starting
with the coordinates given. It was originally used to determine the best planet
as a captial for a "sector". The current example searches for the highest tech
level. It uses level-1 information.

-------- TML Message #1782 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1782
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Black Globes
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 90 10:05:58 GMT

"Brent L. Woods" <woodsb@zoo.ecn.purdue.edu> writes:
>      One small quibble.  "Prototype" isn't the best word to use.  I
> think that "copy" would be more accurate.  The device wasn't developed
> by Imperial (or any other contemporary) technology.  To quote from page
> 31 of _High Guard_:
> 
>           "Black globe generators are not available commercially; they
>      are recovered artifacts installed on a makeshift basis or
>      experimental versions installed on tech level 15 Imperial
>      warships."

" ... or experimental versions ..."
Sounds like prototypes to me.  Besides, in due time the Imperials should
learn how to copy the things.  And one or two places are now TL 16, and
should be capable of designing them.  The Darrians probably have a few
hidden away somewhere; and two Vargr worlds are TL 16, according to the
old Vargr Alien Module.

> 
>      Also, the behavior of the field is fairly well known--it won't
> explode or "move to a different universe."

This depends on how the PC's get hold of it.  (Assuming that they do, of
course - and assuming that they role-play properly, and don't make use of
what the players read in various manuals.)  If they got one by looting an
Imperial warship, they are probably more powerful than they have any right
to be, but can probably interrogate someone from the ship.  If they got one
the same way as the Navy did, by looting an Ancient base, and if the Navy
hasn't been publishing documents about black globes, then the PC's  will
not know what they have, or what it does.

>           "If a ship absorbs enough energy to make a jump, and is
>      supplied with sufficient fuel, it may jump at the end of the turn."
> 
>      Of course, this can be dangerous.  If you overload your capacitors,
> your ship is destroyed (by violently exploding capacitors, I guess).  I
> imagine that it's not a very good idea if you only have your jump drive
> capacitors available.

I don't see the danger.  If the ship has absorbed enough energy to make the
jump, it absorbed the energy into the jump capacitors.  If it still exists,
it hasn't overloaded the capacitors.  There should be no risk of overload
due to trying to jump - either the capacitors are sufficiently charged for
the jump, leave them alone; or they need a little more charge, give it to
them.

- - -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

-------- TML Message #1783 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1783
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 90 11:09 EDT
From: METLAY@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Subject: The TDR Manifesto

I hereby designate the official name of the alternate-rules project to
be TDR, short for Traveller Done Right. I hereby declare myself in charge
of TDR, with final editorial rights over what is and isn't considered 
part of the approved package. I hereby declare that TDR will be public
domain and will be distributed via Email, and state my intention to 
prevent any and all attempts to inform either GDW or DGP of our work,
knowing full well that both companies will refuse to believe that a project
of this magnitude would be attempted without hope of monetary gain, hence
encouraging copyright infringement suits and the ruin of the careers of
several promising young RPG writers, myself included. I hereby order that
only vanilla ASCII be used for rules submissions, and that the Archivist 
reserve the right to keep or refuse any submission violating these rules.
I hereby declare computer software to be an unnecessary fringe project of
the TDR push, and leave it open for another user group to jabber about and
argue over until it dies of inertia-- TDR will consist of hard copy ONLY.
I hereby designate Mark Cook as the Archivist for all TDR materials, and
declare my intention to delete without forwarding any material on TDR sent
to me from here on. I hereby ask any and all individuals who refuse to 
abide by these rules to go stick their collective head in a pig. I hereby
request that any and all individuals who are serious enough about making 
these rules work and work well prove their intentions by submitting rules
packages to Mark at their earliest opportunity, and by calling me at
(412) 521-3548 evenings and weekends AFTER 12PM, effective Saturday, and
be willing to back up their wind with results.

We will worry about redistribution of material when and if we have anything
worth redistributing.  

metlay

[Whew! The original subject line was TDR: The Word From On High, but
metlay gave me permission to replace it with a stronger title that I
suggested -- James]

-------- TML Message #1784 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1784
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 90 22:30:58 -0800
From: George William Herbert <gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Copyrights & Such


Good point.  TDR is neutral enough that GDW won't have a copyright cow,
etc.  As for the predicted immenent demise of TDR: 8-P we shall survive 8-)

BTW: random vehicle design commentary; if you attempt to use a COACC engine
in another vehicle, be Very Very careful.  from analysis and comparason to
existing engines, they're twice as powerful (or more) than they should be.
My COACC rework is taking this into account, and making some other changes,
but you might want to think twice about the Fusion-Rocket powered starships.

- - -george william herbert
gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu   OCF Staff

-------- TML Message #1785 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1785
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 90 22:21:20 -0800
From: George William Herbert <gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu>
Subject: The Drives Revision: my position summary...


	I've been having email conversations with Robert Dean about what to
do with maneuver drives.  I'm going to relist some of the salient points and
conclude by asking a question I asked Rob... whether strict reality or 
retaining compatability is more important.

[i'm trying to be neutral but probably failed... 8-]

	The first point is that it's obvious that the current description
and justification for maneuver drives won't cut it as is.  
	Second point is that it doesn't matter for most ships that players will
deal with, as a simple change to thrust-based will not change the maneuver 
drive mass-to-performance for most 'normal' ships.  Counterpoint: there are 
a lot of non-'normal' ships out there, and any such move would render the
designs incompatable.  Subpoint of this would be a 'flavor-of-game' alteration,
because heavily armoured naval ships would end up with 1-G or less and most
player ships will be able to RUN AWAY 8-) ...
	Third point: my pseudo-physics explanation for reactionless and 
volume-based drives seems to work, and it remains compatable. 
	Fourth point: so does Rob's thrust based... and it's easier for some
people to swallow.

[rob, fill in here if i missed anything important...]

Anyway: my conclusion is thus: we can make one of two changes; either go
with the easier-to believe thrust based drives, and render starships outside
the 'normal' range incompatable (and possibly less useful [personal comment])
or, we can accept the somewhat further-out volume based system and remain
compatable with previous design rules.
	I have a personal preference for which way to go, but since it's not
just my project, other people ought to have a say.  Let the debate begin 8-)

- - -george william herbert
gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu   OCF Staff

-------- TML Message #1786 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1786
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 90 21:32:59 -0800
From: George William Herbert <gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu>
Subject: file formats...


Ascii.  It's the only one everyone understands.
We're going to be having enough problems with people not liking rules
mods than to add formatting to the fray. 8-)

- - -george
[we can always have someone mac the results to make them nice-like]

-------- End of TML Messages --------


-------- TML Message #1787 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1787
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 90 16:02:41 -0500
From: "T. L. Hayes" <al646@cleveland.freenet.edu>
Subject: Bad News from the Physics Frontier!



BAD NEWS!!!

     Earlier I posted a "if it ain't broke don't fix it" warning.  This is
a "if you can't fix it leave it alone" warning.  During lunch today I took
to playing with some numbers.  From an earlier post I got some figures for
a scout/courier (I don't have books at work so I have to trust these numbers)
that said:

     Displacement - 100 tons
     Unload Mass  - 1084.0707 tons
     Acceleration - 2G

     Now the amount of energy obtained from the fusion of 1 ton of hydrogen
into helium is 2.58 E6 Joules (roughly).  This assumes all the mass 
difference between 4 hydrogen and 1 helium is converted to energy.  Since
this is not true, the actual energy output will be lower.  

     A scout ship accelerating at 1G for 1 hour will cover a distance of
63568.8 km and be travelling at a speed of 35.3 km/s or 127,137.6 km/hr.
The amount of energy consumed during the hour will be 6.76 E14 Joules just
to propel the ship.  This is equivelant to 2.62 E8 tons of hydrogen!

     Clearly manuever drives are going to violate physics or they will not
work.  Notice this makes no assumptions about how you move the ship the only
assumptions made are its mass and acceleration and that it starts from rest.
Energy must be conserved.

ANOTHER TOPIC

     I read in (1766) black globes by Paul Baughman -

Why can't it maneuver?  With reactionless thrusters which don't emit anything
to be absorbed by the field, you should be able to maneuver all you want.  Of
course, you can't *SEE* where you are going, and running into an asteroid
(after you drop the field) could ruin your day, but what is the handwaving-
pseudo-technical explanation for why you can't maneuver?

END OF EXERPT -

Correction - you emit energy.  In order for the ship to move it MUST exchange
energy with the "rest of the universe" which it can not do while in a
Black Globe.  Reactionless (imho) means that it does not generate the force
by expelling matter out the exhaust.

     The deeper I look into Traveller's physical problems (prompted in
part by all the talk on the lists) the more I find that many of the places
that violate physics do so because its more intertaining and playable (and
more like the movies and books we've all read).  Places I've seen that may
not be fixable include Jump Drive, Maneuver drives, Anti-Gravity, repulsor
or tractor beams, and nuclear dampers.  Some of these can be talked around
using pseudo-physics and handwaving at least to the point that they're not
glaring problems.

     Then there are the places where the physics is easy enough to fix but
do we really want to.  An example of this kind of problem is the travel
times between planets in a single star system.  The problem is these
calculation assume you go straight from planet A to planet B accelerating
half way, decelerating the other half.  Aside from being EXTREMELY energy
inefficient, this is not possible.  All movement will be effected by the
gravity of the two planets and the sun(s) forcing the craft to fly some
sort of hyperbolic (or parabolic) path at least near the planets.  You
simply can not "warp out of orbit" in a straight line no matter how much
thrust you ship has let alone with merely 1 - 6 G's.  Now we can fix this
but the travel times may become unacceptably long and, even though this
is a violation of the laws of physics, it doesn't really impact on the
game (that is it doesn't NEED to impact on the game).

     It bothers me when games ignore physical laws blatantly but I am coming
to see that it is often neccessary if we are to have the games reflect
the kind of science fiction movie/book settings we've come to expect.
Interstellar travel and trade, huge fleets battling for control of the
empire, robots, technical wonders, and heros and heroines fighting for
noble causes (or greed).

I hope this didn't spoil your day!

TLH

- - --
T.L.Hayes                  |
MIT/Lincoln Laboratory     |
Lexington, MA              |

-------- TML Message #1788 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1788
From: "Mark F. Cook" <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
Subject: Weapon repair & Gauss recoil
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 90 13:15:00 PST

In TML Subject 1761, Bertil Jonell (d9bertil@tek.chalmers.se> writes:

> > From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
> > Subject: (1752) Weapon repairs
> >
> > "Mark F. Cook" <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM> writes:
> > >        I'd say that a specific weapons skill includes being able to
> > > fieldstrip and clean your weapon, AND THAT'S ALL.  If a component is
> > > broken, you take the weapon to a 'gunsmith' or, if you're in the service,
> > > you have the company quartermaster replace it.
> >
> > Making new parts from a piece of metal comes under Mechanical skill.
> > Again, the difficulty level depends on the component, but will probably
> > be quite high - we're talking about precision machinery here.
> 
>   But remember that even if a weapons is damage so that it won't work, that
> dosen't nessesarily mean that any part is broken.
>   Example: The magasine of an automatic weapon don't need to be bent much
> before this starts to interfer with the feed. If the top part of a magasine
> is damaged in a certain way, the weapon with refuse to fire at all. Similarly,
> springs might bent out of shape, cartridges might get stuck and so on.
>   These isn't 'Superficial' errors, because each one will make the weapon
> unusable, and 'superficial' damage won't interfear with the operation of
> something. Yet none of them require any new parts to fix, just some tools
> and a little time.

All very true.  But the last sentence really should end with "...just some
tools, a little time, and the NECCESSARY SKILLS."  In this I think the point
that Adrian makes is correct: without Mechanical-1 or better, you probably
shouldn't be allowed to do it unpenalized.  Trying to bent a caved-in clip
or a bent leaf-spring back into shape (the CORRECT shape) is a difficult
task, as anyone who has tried can tell you.  On the other hand, clearing
a jammed cartridge does not typically constitute "repairing damage" in the
MT sense, since it takes no special talent other than the ability to operate
the weapon.  you might want to treat a cartridge jam as "superficial damage",
a bent clip as "minor damage", a broken trigger or firing-pin as "major
damage", and a bent barrel/crushed receiver as "destroyed".

>   Lastly I'm going to challenge one of basic pre-conceptions of Traveller and
> MegaTraveller: The recoilless gauss-rifle.
>   The gaussrifle fires a small 4mm calibre bullet. This bullet travels at
> 1000m/s which is about as fast as an normal 5.56 NATO round. And yet, the
> gaussrifle inflict 4D with a penetration of 7, while a 5.56 NATO in Traveller
> would inflict 3D at around 3 or 4 in penetration.
>   This would indicate that the bullet from a gaussrifle travels much faster
> than a normal rifle bullet, maybe somewhere in the range of 1500 to 2000 m/s.

In fact, the Imperial Encyclopedia does list the velocity as 1500 m/s.

>   How this weapon can be thought as being particularly recoilless is beyond
> me:)

MT does NOT list gauss weapons as being "recoilless".  They list them as
being "low recoil", which is appropriate.  If you consider both F=ma and
Newton's 3rd Law ("Equal and opposite reaction") then the amount of enery
delivered to each gauss needle (and thus acceleration, since the needle's
mass is constant) is equal to the amount of recoil energy delivered to
the gauss weapon firing the needle.  Since the weapon outweighs the needle
by several orders of magnitude (4 gm. vs. 3.5 Kg., in the case of a gauss
rifle), the recoil of the weapon is going to be virtually zip.

End of story.

                "Good afternoon, boys."
                        [ "What's THAT?"
                          "Oh that, it's just the computer.  I discovered
                           it had an emergency, back-up personality, which
                           I thought might be marginally preferable." ]
                "Now, this is going to be your first day on a strange
                 planet, so I want you all wrapped up, snug and warm,
                 and no playing with any naughty, bug-eyed monsters."
                        [ "I'm sorry.  I think we might have been better
                           off with a slide-rule." ]
                "RIGHT!  Who said that?"
                        [ "Will you open up the exit hatch, please?" ]
                "Not until whoever said that owns up!"
                        [ "Oh, God!" ]
                "Come on!"
                        [ "Computer!" ]
                "I'm waiting.  I can wait all day, if neccessary."
                        [ "Computer, if you don't open that exit hatch
                           this moment, I shall go straight to your major
                           data banks with a very large axe, and give
                           you reprogramming you'll never forget, is
                           that clear?" ]
                "... I can see this relationship is something we're ALL
                 going to have to work at."
                                - Ford and Zaphon have a go-around with
                                  Eddie's 'replacement'.

        Mark F. Cook

USMail: User Interface Technical Support
        Hewlett-Packard - Interface Technology Operation
        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330

INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com
          markc%hpcvss.cv.hp.com@relay.hp.com

-------- TML Message #1789 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1789
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 90 12:44:05 GMT
From: grue@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au
Subject: TDR Starships

hiya,
	My first proposal: let meson screens give an effective armour factor
against incoming meson weapons rather than simply stopping some of the
incoming fire dead.

	I don't really understand the physics involved, but the way I
understand the Starship Operator's Manual and the Refs Guide, meson
screens are supposed to slow down the incoming meson packet and make
it detonate outside the ship.  Hopefully every incoming meson packet
will be slowed down, which means that the fire will no longer hit the
delicate central parts of the ship.  Instead the fire will hit the
more robust outer sections.

	Sure, if you slow the packet down enough it won't hit you at all.
Unfortunately, large spinal mounts have a nasty tendancy to cut through
meson screens without showing any ill effects.  I don't really see any
ratonal for having a hit or miss result.  Using the screen as armour means
that every incoming meson weapon will be effected.

	Anybody like to comment about this idea?  If there are any real
complaints I'll retract the idea.


	Someone mentioned synchronising your fire with the flicker of
your black globe.  I like this idea also.  The current rules give a lot
'evidence' that the weapons fire in discreet lumps.  (meson packets are
mentions, missiles are entities, pulse lasers are too, Fusion/Plasma guns
would most likely fire shots.  PA's fire bursts also.  Beam lasers most
probably wouldn't).  Why not allow firing while the globe is flickered
off?  Other starships wouldn't be able to detect your turning off your globe
to let a battery of missiles out (the distances involved are large, I don't
have my ref's guide here but the distances involved are quite sizable even
at the speed of light) --- they are simply too far away to react before you
turn your globe back on.  Since globes are experimental at TL15 (whatever
that really means), it could be dis-allowed until TL16 which means the game
will not be alter much (who runs campaings over TL15????).

	And finally, some random ramblings about how I think TDR should come
out.....

	I think that a complete re-write is totally out of the question.  It
would be too big a task to do in our spare time.  I'd prefer to see an
evolution of the current rules into something that contains more internal
consistancy (and a better basis in real physics).  This would mean that,
we don't just throw something out because it seems silly.  We'd have to
either alter the definition a little to make that thing possible or throw
the thing out and replace it with something plausable.  (the reactionless
drive makes a nice example of both choices:  throw it out and replace it
with a reaction based drive or try to find some justification for it, i.e.
find something for it to push against).

	For starships (one of my pet areas :-), I'd like to see some
intermediate values put into the tables.  There is no reason for a spinal
meson gun-A to be as inefficient at TL15 ass it is at TL12!  It would
probably be possible to build a real working meson gun given current
technology (I think they are actually used to burn cancerous stuff out
of people), it would not be practable to do so.  The communication gear
has a nice set of intermediate values (even if they are a bit simplistic),
why not everything else???? [ the answer is that it would make for too many
extra tables ]



							Pauli
seeya

Paul Dale               | Internet/CSnet:            grue@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au
Dept of Computer Science| Bitnet:       grue%batserver.cs.uq.oz.au@uunet.uu.net
Uni of Qld              | JANET:           grue%batserver.cs.uq.oz.au@uk.ac.ukc
Australia, 4072         | EAN:                          grue@batserver.cs.uq.oz
                        | UUCP:           uunet!munnari!batserver.cs.uq.oz!grue
f4e6g4Qh4++             | JUNET:                     grue@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au

-------- TML Message #1790 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1790
Date:     Thu, 15 Nov 90 23:10:29 PST
From: Orcinus orca <jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu>
Subject:  Re: Bad News from the Physics Frontier

Hold on, no offense but you're acting like a physicist :-).
Your figure for the amount of energy from fusing 1 ton of
hydrogen into helium is about 2.6 MegaJoules.  Now, an
engineer :-) would look at that and say "We currently have
power plants that put out thousands of Megawatts, and they
certainly aren't fusing thousands of tons of hydrogen every
second.  I must have goofed."

I double checked and got:

Hydrogen: 1.00794 grams/mole    Helium 4.0026 grams/mole

4 H  -  1 He  =  0.02916 grams/mole of matter converted to energy

1 ton of Hydrogen is 992122.547 moles so there are

(992122.547 moles * 0.02916 grams/mole) = 28930.3 grams of
matter converted to energy.  Or 28.93kg since I hate cgs :-).

Use E= m * c^2 to get

E = (28.93 kg) * (3.0 x 10^11 m/s)^2 = 2.60 * 10^24 Joules

Your figure for the energy consumed by a scout ship accelerating 
at 1G for 1 hour, 6.76 E 14 Joules, is correct.

So using the new figure for energy from fusing, this scout ship
will have consumed

[ 6.76 E14 Joules  /  ( 2.60 E24 Joules/ton of H fused)] =
        = 2.6 E-10 tons 

or 260 micrograms of Hydrogen fused.  I think we have the 
reverse problem!  This process is too efficient!  To burn
(how much does a scout ship hold?) 20(?) tons of hydrogen
in 4 weeks of constant use, we'd have to operate at, oh...
0.0000002% efficiency (within a couple orders of magnitude)
==
John H. Kim
jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu
uunet!jarthur!jokim

-------- TML Message #1791 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1791
From: Amos Shapira <amoss%batata.huji.ac.il@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 90 08:37:42 -0200
Subject: Weapon repair and operation.


Hello,

	Sorry to barge in late on the discussion, I am fighting the dark
forces for a proper account.

	In any case, Operating a weapon should be considered a class skill.
That is -

		If you know how to operate a single weapon in a class, then
		you can operate ALL STANDARD weapons in this class with
		reduced efficiency UNTIL FAMILIARIZATION. After a given
		period of time has passed (and the new weapon/weapons were
		in use) the skill is acquired fully.


	Fixing a weapon is a problematic affair. Of course, machining firing
pins and slides is quite beyond anyone lacking a Mechanical-x and AT LEAST
one level of (Mettalurgy - in parenthesis, I don't think MT has one). BUT!,
identifying what is wrong is quite simple - a complete stripping shows that,
and replacing simple parts is very quick - firing pins, springs, barrels,
slides, etc.

Marc A. Volovic (accountless).

via

Amos SHapira

-------- TML Message #1792 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1792
From: "Brent L. Woods" <woodsb@zoo.ecn.purdue.edu>
Subject: Re: (1782) Re: Black Globes
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 90 3:17:42 EST


 In message 1782, adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk (Adrian Hurt) writes:
 >
 >"Brent L. Woods" <woodsb@zoo.ecn.purdue.edu> writes:
 >>      One small quibble.  "Prototype" isn't the best word to use.  I
 >> think that "copy" would be more accurate.  The device wasn't developed
 >> by Imperial (or any other contemporary) technology.  To quote from page
 >> 31 of _High Guard_:
 >> 
 >>           "Black globe generators are not available commercially; they
 >>      are recovered artifacts installed on a makeshift basis or
 >>      experimental versions installed on tech level 15 Imperial
 >>      warships."
 >
 >" ... or experimental versions ..."
 >Sounds like prototypes to me.  Besides, in due time the Imperials should
 >learn how to copy the things.  And one or two places are now TL 16, and
 >should be capable of designing them.  The Darrians probably have a few
 >hidden away somewhere; and two Vargr worlds are TL 16, according to the
 >old Vargr Alien Module.

     Oh, certainly.  I just generally associate the word "prototype"
with "newly-developed experimental device."  If you are copying some
pre-existing thing, it'd call that an "experimental copy."

     If the device is something that *you* developed (including the
theory behind it), then I'd assume a better understanding of the
device on the part of the developers.

     Personally, I'd rather have one of the recovered Ancient artifacts
rather than a new-made copy (though I *think* that there were only
2,000 of those that were found).  I'd tend to distrust the understanding
of the copiers.

 >>      Also, the behavior of the field is fairly well known--it won't
 >> explode or "move to a different universe."
 >
 >This depends on how the PC's get hold of it.  (Assuming that they do, of
 >course - and assuming that they role-play properly, and don't make use of
 >what the players read in various manuals.)  If they got one by looting an
 >Imperial warship, they are probably more powerful than they have any right
 >to be, but can probably interrogate someone from the ship.  If they got one

     Unless it's a derelict.  As I recall, there is mention of several
black globe-equipped drelict ships here and there in the official
publications.  Like the _Kinunir_, for example.

 >the same way as the Navy did, by looting an Ancient base, and if the Navy
 >hasn't been publishing documents about black globes, then the PC's  will
 >not know what they have, or what it does.

     No, but if they feed the correct power into it, it'll turn on
(possibly damaging the surround).  If they don't, then it *should* do
nothing (I admit, *if* Grandfather used proper fail-safe design
philosophy).

 >>           "If a ship absorbs enough energy to make a jump, and is
 >>      supplied with sufficient fuel, it may jump at the end of the turn."
 >> 
 >>      Of course, this can be dangerous.  If you overload your capacitors,
 >> your ship is destroyed (by violently exploding capacitors, I guess).  I
 >> imagine that it's not a very good idea if you only have your jump drive
 >> capacitors available.
 >
 >I don't see the danger.  If the ship has absorbed enough energy to make the
 >jump, it absorbed the energy into the jump capacitors.  If it still exists,
 >it hasn't overloaded the capacitors.  There should be no risk of overload
 >due to trying to jump - either the capacitors are sufficiently charged for
 >the jump, leave them alone; or they need a little more charge, give it to
 >them.

     Ah, but what if your jump capacitors are fully charged, you're
preparing to jump out of a *very* dangerous situation, *and your globe
gets hit again*?  More energy (possibly a great deal more, depending on
how many opponents you have to deal with) is channeled to your already
fully-charged jump drive capacitors.  Result?  Boom.

     What I was obviously insufficiently clear in saying was that it
was probably not a good idea to *plan* on using that particular method
of escape *unless* you have the added safety margin of a few extra
capacitors to deal with that pesky problem of last-microsecond hits to
the globe.  If jump capacitors were all I had, I would plan on using
different tactics (unless, of course I just happened to be in the
situation by chance--then I'd press the jump drive's "doit" button).

     I just like to have ample safety margins whenever possible--could
you tell?  ;-)


- - --
     Brent

INTERNET:  woodsb@gn.ecn.purdue.edu
USNAIL:  2818 S. Sunrise Dr.  /  New Palestine, IN  46163
PHONE:  +1 (317) 861-4844 (voice)


-------- TML Message #1793 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1793
Date:     Fri, 16 Nov 90 8:58:42 EST
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Maneuver Drive Rationalization

George William Herbert presented the salient pointsa of the discussion we have
been having correctly.  My own opinion on the matter, is, of course, to follow
m,y suggestion.  (-: (-:  However, a few extra points could be considered...
most heavily armored naval vessels can or do carry lightly armored auxiliaries,
which would still be larger than the typical players vessel, and could chase
them down as they tried to accelerate away at 2Gs.  Any retention of the volume
bases system needs a clear explanation of what happens in the close proximity
of a planetary surface when you attempt to use your maneuver drive (even if
that explanation is a clear statement that Nothing Awful Happens).  As it
stands now, there is a strange zone of incompatibilty when you cross the line
between "vehicles" and "spaceships" that would be retained.

By the way, does anyone out there besides Metlay go back as far as the first
edition of High Guard?  The one that clearly stated that you could use your
maneuver drive as a fusion gun in an emergency?  I, personally, would be in
favor of dropping this whole thrusters business and replacing them with
"reasonable" fusion rockets...something that the physics types cook up based
on "reasonable" fusion efficiencies, current engine weight categories, and
calculations starting with exhaust velocities of the resulting helium/hydrogen
stream.

Rob (its just my opinion) Dean

[I for one had a mint copy of Edition 1 High Gaurd in High School.  It
was so worn I had to glue in page hinges to keep the book from falling
apart.  I eventually gave it away when I got the second edition of High
Gaurd.  Just after I got the first edition, I did a "Trillion Credit
Squadron" sort of campaign with two of my players -- one designed a
dozen really big TL15 ships, and was so positive he was indestructible
he invited me (the ref) and the other player to do our worst.  With our
thrifty spending we built about 50 medium-sized TL13
battleships/carriers and a giant decoy ship.  They each carried about
500 100-ton modified scout vessels with 6G manuever drives and triple
beam turrets.  The Scout ships were surface-mounted on the
battleship/carriers.  When the battle began (instigated by the player
with hubris), the decoy lumbered out and immediately drew the proud
player's fire.  The scout ships launched, used their lasers as point
defense, and swarmed over to the attacking player's fleet.  The primary
damage inflicted was the point-blank fusion gun effect of the scout
manuever drives.  The battle ended predictably, with the
battleship/carrier player losing the giant decoy and only bring about
1/3 of his fleet into the combat -- the fusion drive scouts won the day.
Notably, I developed a statistical combat system for the scout ships -
since there were thousands of them flying around. -- James]

-------- TML Message #1794 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1794
Date:     Fri, 16 Nov 90 9:16:12 EST
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Black Globes, one more time

Someone mentioned synchronizing your weapons with the flickering of your
black globe generator.  Its a great idea...and it is also stated (although)
erhaps not explicitly) in the rules that that is what they do.  No need to
argue about it.

Rob


-------- TML Message #1795 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1795
Date:     Fri, 16 Nov 90 13:27:08 EST
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  (1787) Bad News from the Physics Frontier!

Regarding your straightline vs. curve path for interplanetary travel: The
inefficiency factor is not worth considering as long as you actually have the
enrgy to do it...do you program an IBM compatible in machine language because
it gets you the extra performance?  No...because the performance that you get,
even wioth four layers of help programs and user interfaces that chew up a good 
deal of machine speed and memory is still greater than most people can keep up
with.  (e.g. your word processeor input buffer won't overflow no matter how fast
you can type).  Do you turn off your car's engine when going downhill?  No,
because gas is (still) cheap enough to ignore minor economies like that.

If you were going to go Earth to Jupiter (refueling pattern) at 1-G constant
boost, it would take how long (assume an average distance between the two).
Less than two weeks?  If the actual variation in path in less than 10% of the
total lenght, I'd say ignore it for game purposes...now if you have an old
TL8 asteroid miner with an ion drive, and an acceleration in the .001s of
Gs, this would be a different matter entirely.  I figured recently that Earth
to Mars at a constant accelration of .001G would take something like 289days,
which is a poor approximation, because I used the shortest straightline
difference between the two, and a course at this sort of acceleration would
be a much longer curve.  The Hohmann transfer time for mean separation of
the planets would be 360+ days (I forget the exact number).  Intuitively,
I should be able to trim SOMETHING off that by constant boost, however small.

Sorry about the typing today.  Much too tired.

Rob Dean


-------- TML Message #1796 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1796
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 90 17:03:45 -0500 (EST)
From: William Dow Rieder <wr0k+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Revenge of the Manuver Drives

	Various people have been posting about manuver drives and how to make
them obey physics without changing the system too much.  I spent a fair
amount of time working on this last January, and posted some of the
results.  I'll summarize to conserve bandwidth.  My basic feeling is
that conservation of energy is worth fighting for, even if other physics
violations are used.
	It is IMPOSSIBLE to have a truly reactionless drive that does not
violate conservation of energy.  This follows from the principle of
relativity and the fact that reactionless drives by definition violate
conservation of momentum.  I can post a proof if there is sufficient
interest or disbelief.  It is possible to have a "pseudo-reactionless"
drive similar to grav thrusters.  The assumption needed is that the
vehicle with the drive is using it to push on the planet (or whatever)
just as if it had wheels and was in physical contact, conserving
momentum.  In order to conserve energy, however, the energy required to
accelerate at a fixed rate is going to rise steadily as the vehicles
velocity increases.
	Example:  A grav car massing 1000 kg that starts at rest accelerates at
1 meter/sec^2 for 10 seconds, giving a speed of 10 meters/second and a
kinetic energy of 50,000 kg m^2/s^2 = 50,000 joules.  This is the amount
of energy that must be provided to the drive assuming 100% efficiency. 
Now assume it accelerates for another 10 seconds at 1 m/s^2 (same
acceleration for same amount of time).  It is then is moving at 20 m/s
and has a kinetic energy of 200,000 joules for an increase of 150,000
joules, which must be provided to the drive.
	A plausible way for the drives to work is assume that they have a
maximum power, and the acceleration thus drops as the vehicle's speed
increases.  Also, some power input should be required to hover, even
though none is theoretically required, since the velocity is not
changing.  This "coupling energy" could rise as the vehicle gets farther
away from the planet, since the gravitational field is getting weaker.
The starship thruster plates could have a coupling energy that would not
depend on distance, as before.  Note also that braking would require NO
energy, and in fact you could get energy back (regenerative braking).
	One point that has been raised is the potential playability problem if
the formulas for acceleration are "too complicated".  Actually, they
will be much simpler than similar formulas for finding the acceleration
of an ordinary automobile (ever wonder why they give the acceleration as
0 to 60 in x seconds?), as well as being simpler than a rocket (mass
isn't changing).
	I am working on a set of rules for manuver and grav drives based on the
"pushing against a planet/star" idea and I'll post them soon.

	Sincerely,
			Guardian of Energy Conservation

					W. Dow Rieder

 	When the only tool you have is a hammer, all your problems
start to look like nails...

-------- TML Message #1797 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1797
Subject: Re: Bad News from the Physics Frontier
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 90 13:00:03 +0000
From: Tim Day <tday@ps.ucl.ac.uk>

Orcinus orca <jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu> writes:
> 4 H  -  1 He  =  0.02916 grams/mole of matter converted to energy
> .....
> I think we have the reverse problem!  This process is too efficient!

It's still wrong anyway.  You can't fuse 4 H (=4 protons) into a He (=2 protons
+ 2 neutrons); you need two deuteriums (an isotope of hydrogen with a proton
and a neutron) or an ordinary hydrogen and a Tritium (=proton + 2 neutrons).
You could also have some exotic reactions with 3 atoms, or perhaps involving
lithium.

I always assumed Trav refining plants were heavy hydrogen isotope extractors,
although why having too much ordinary hydrogen in the fuel should cause
misjumps is a mystery.

Unfortunately I don't have a molar weight for deuterium handy.
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
  Tim Day        tday@uk.ac.ucl.ps     | I honestly think you should sit down
  Department of Insanity and Surveying | calmly, take a stress pill and think
  UCL, Gower St., London  WC1E 6BT     | things over.               -HAL 9000
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

-------- TML Message #1798 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1798
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 90 08:51:03 PST
From: Vote For NoneOfTheAbove Write In Candidate 17-Nov-1990 1139 <baranski@meridn.enet.dec.COM>
Subject: Drive efficiency

In our drive discussions we've had statements from 'there's no way to do this
without violating energy conservation, there's just not that much energy in a
ton of hydrogen fusion' to 'the energy in a ton of hydrogen fusion is
infinitessimal to the amount needed, our drives must be horribly inefficient'.

My feeling is that over the changes in TL we should plan for a continum from
one extreme to the other in TDR, from where the drives are horribly
ineffiecent, to where you never fill your fuel tanks.  I think we should plan
rules to cover differing technologies of space drives.  It might be that you
have campaigns that use ion, fusion and fission rocket in the same game.

One other thought.  It might be that only a small part of the hydrogen used in
a spacecraft is fused.  It might be that the majority is used in the rocket as
reaction mass.  Possibly at some TL's it might be required for cooling
purposes.
On the other end of the spectrum, most people assume that the energy is from
the fusion of hydrogen to helium.  Has anyone considered fusion other elements,
or fusing multiple elements at high TL?

Jim Baranski
Norwich CT

-------- TML Message #1799 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1799
From: "Mark F. Cook" <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
Subject: DGP/TML Survey Deadlines
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 90 10:35:58 PST

This is just a quick note to remind everyone on TML that the deadlines for
return of the DGP and TML surveys are rapidly approaching.  The DGP surveys
will not be accepted after Tuesday, Nov. 20th, and the last day to submit
TML surveys Friday, Nov. 30th.

Our thanks to those of you who've already returned your surveys.  Everybody
else, remember, if you don't respond, you won't get a shot at the free
RPG give-away described in the survey header.  Also, for people who still
have not filled out their DGP surveys, remember that you can mail your
survey directly back to DGP if you don't want to submit it to us!

DGP will notify the winner of their give-away drawing directly.  We will
try to make an announcement to TML if the winner turns out to be someone
on the mailing list.

The drawing for the winner of the TML give-away will be made on Sunday,
Dec. 2nd.  The winner's name will be posted to the TML after we have
notified the winner directly and received a response back.  The TML
surveys will be processed and the results of the survey will be posted
to the TML some time in January.

Thanks again to all those who've helped us.

        Mark F. Cook

USMail: User Interface Technical Support
        Hewlett-Packard - Interface Technology Operation
        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330

INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com
          markc%hpcvss.cv.hp.com@relay.hp.com

-------- TML Message #1800 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1800
Subject: FTL impossibilities, TDR stuff
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 90 16:55:13 EST
From: Robert P Poole <tarquin@athena.mit.edu>

Well, folks, I talked to a local Special Relativity guru.  Guess what?  All FTL
drive systems that rely on taking a ship out of our space-time and plopping it
temporarily in some "hyperspace" or "jump space" are going to violate
relativity.  (Specifically, you will invariably get reverse time travel.)
Here's why:

FTL, by definition, gets you from A to B faster than light can do it.  Once you
get to B, you can accelerate in normal space back to A until your velocity is
near c.  Start your FTL drive again, and you will arrive back at A in your new
reference frame, moving at just under c, some time before you left.  The only
way to solve this problem is to have ONE reference frame.  That is forbidden
under Special Relativity.

If you didn't follow that argument, here it is in a different form.  Say A is
the Earth, at noon.  Using your FTL, you jump to Alpha Centauri and arrive
there at 1 pm.  Accelerate in normal space toward Earth, get near c.  You are a
real stud and can take 40 G's of acceleration or whatever.  3 pm your time, 6
pm Earth time, but your reference frame still includes the Earth of two weeks
ago.  (Don't forget that information can't travel faster than light.)  Try
using your FTL again.  Whoops!  Back at Earth two weeks before you left.

What does this all mean?  Traveller doesn't work, nothing works, you are
doomed, SFRPG's will never be realistic.

Well, I think this underscores a more fundamental problem than all the physics
problems in Traveller.  Basically, folks, most of you have lost sight of the
fact that Traveller is a GAME.  In fact, it purports to be a ROLE PLAYING game.
If you're in it for space combat, tough shit.  There are many excellent space
combat systems available.  The point is to have fun.  Granted, some of the
inconsistencies grate on people's nerves, but when you get right down to it
there is nothing you can do without violating some laws of physics.

I'm not really flaming the efforts of people to make Traveller more bearable,
but what some of you are trying to do is model reality.  You can't do it.  I've
been watching all this talk about Black Globes and reactionless thrusters, and
I just have to laugh.  As long as you don't get a free ride (i.e., getting
something for nothing), what's the problem?  Who cares about the nitty gritty
details?  _I_ know the rules are "wrong," so do you.  {shrug}

Hopefully, the people who are going to spend all their time working on TDR will
realize that they are trying to fix the more broken aspects of Traveller
(trade, weapons, etc.) without losing sight of the fact that it is an RPG.
I applaud the effort.

As for ASCII, I can see how a lot of people would want to get straight ASCII
text and print it out.  I would recommend that the people doing this use Emacs
or else use a word processor that has an ASCII output option -- you're going to
want to use some kind of formatting for all those wonderful tables.

For those who want a nicer looking presentation -- something you can put in a
flex binder and show to people, or at least have readable -- I am willing to
put in my time and convert the final results into a machine-ready form so that
the docs can be typeset.  Then it is a matter of making the PostScript files
(or whatever) publically readable.  I would also be willing to make hard copies
and send them out via snail mail to whomever is interested in having nicely
typeset docs instead of unreadable dot matrix output.  (Just send me a check to
reimburse me for reproduction costs.)

And since no one on the TDR team is interested, I am willing to help coordinate
development of software for ship design, character generation, etc., assuming
that the TDR people are going to get all the algorithms to be self-consistent,
easy to understand, and amenable to computational algorithm.  Obviously, there
will be nothing to "jabber about and argue over until it dies of inertia" if
the TDR people do their jobs right.  IF.

I gotta see this.

Robert P. Poole                       tarquin@athena.mit.edu
46 Massachusetts Avenue               MIT Course VIII
311B Bexley Hall                      "We make Idols of our concepts, but
Cambridge, MA  02139                   wisdom is born of wonder."
                                         -- St. Gregory the Illuminator

-------- TML Message #1801 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1801
Subject: System Generation stuff
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 90 11:07:05 PST
From: Richard Johnson <richard@agora.UUCP>

Jo - I missed your address.  *PLEASE* send me everything you've
got for sysgen.  I'd prefere the untested Sun version, but will
be quite content with the IBM version.  

Mark - I'm still waiting for those sector generators...

======
As you can see I've sort of decided to start archiving mapping
things.

Richard


-------- TML Message #1802 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1802
Subject: Black Globes
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 90 11:09:37 PST
From: Richard Johnson <richard@agora.UUCP>

If *I* were inside a black globe, surrounded by lots of hostile
firepower, I'd charge the caps enough to jump, and then run
everything i had full tilt; maeuver drive, lasers, *anythng*
that would raise the background temperature of space inside the
bubble.  The more heat, the better.

Then whe I jumped out, it might fool someone for at least a few seconds.

:-)

Richard

-------- TML Message #1803 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1803
Subject: Fusion
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 90 00:58:28 EST
From: Robert P Poole <tarquin@athena.mit.edu>

Tim Day wrote that 4 H -> He doesn't work, i.e., that you must have D or T in
the reaction.  Since when is it graven in stone that ordinary Hydrogen doesn't
work in fusion?  After all, our Sun does it that way (if you dare to disagree
with me on that point, I would be more than happy to discuss stellar physics
with you).  I see no problem with extrapolating a future technology which
allows fusion of ordinary hydrogen through some heretofore unknown exotic
process.

This means that Mr. Day's interpretation of fuel refining as extraction of
heavy isotopes from lighter ones (of hydrogen, that is) is WRONG.  As I
understand fuel refining, the difference between refined and unrefined fuels is
that unrefined fuels contain hydrogen in combination with other atoms (i.e.,
the fuel contains methane and water and other shit in addition to pure H).
This seems to be echoed by other physics-minded refs I've spoken to.  Military
craft are often fitted to use unrefined fuels, and presumably can refuel at a
gas giant or on a water world -- and this fits the general scheme of things.

Robert P. Poole                       tarquin@athena.mit.edu
46 Massachusetts Avenue               MIT Course VIII
311B Bexley Hall                      "We make Idols of our concepts, but
Cambridge, MA  02139                   wisdom is born of wonder."
                                         -- St. Gregory the Illuminator

-------- TML Message #1804 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1804
Date:     Sun, 18 Nov 90 12:42:50 PST
From: Orcinus orca <jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu>
Subject:  Efficiency of Fusion

Tim Day writes:
> [can't fuse 4 Hydrogen to get one Helium]

That's what I thought, until I added the mass of 4 Hydrogen atoms
and found it to be greater than the mass of one Helium atom.  THinking
about it, a single hydrogen atom could be converted into a neutron
(neutron = proton + electron), so on paper, you could get a helium
atom from 4 hydrogen atoms.  I doubt it's so in real life.

There are a lot of other things involved (like neutrinos and such)
which I'm no guru on, so could some physics guru take over from here?
And I never expected my result to be the final word.  It was just a
ballpark estimate.

And as for "this thread is silly, Traveller is supposed to be fun":
There are some of us who think that trying to explain Traveller rules
in terms of real life lots of fun.  Oh yeah, if relativity is having
problems explaining jump drives, change relativity.  I'm sure Einstein
never intended relativity to account for *everything* in the universe.
- - --
John H. Kim
jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu
uunet!jarthur!jokim

-------- End of TML Messages --------


-------- TML Message #1805 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1805
Date:    Sun, 18 Nov 90 16:17 EST
From: PHB100@psuvm.psu.edu
Subject: Traveller physics

Ahem.  I hate to say this with all the physics gurus out there, but I sometimes
get these self-destructive urges...;+)

First of all let me say that I have as little to do with physics as possible...
so doubtless this is nothing but more hand-waving.
Lots of people have been saying that you can't have a reactionless thruster
because it violates conservation of momentum, or a jump drive because it
violates casuality.  But isn't that just according to the physics we know now?
Wait!  Before you take Plasma Rifle in hand to blast me to atoms, isn't it
possible that in the next, what, 5,000 years, that enough progress will be made
in physics to show that what the ancient Terrans (circa 2000) thought was
impossible might become possible?  Perhaps in 3-D space and Einsteinian Physics
FTL drives are impossible, but in 6-D space and Baughmanian physics it is not?

I hereby put forward a theory for your consideration.  There are actually six
dimensions and that there is a limit to how fast information can travel.  This
limit is six parsecs per week.  This limit shall be known for ever afterward as
the Speed of Rumor in a vacuum.  I can show mathematically that nothing can
travel faster than Rumor.  Of course, you probably won't understand the math...
;+))))

Semi-seriously, though, our knowledge of things scientific is progressing
constantly, so why assume we currently know all there is to know about physics?
Aren't there things we know now that were once proved impossible?  Isn't it
just possible that the things we KNOW now will be disproved in the future?

Please allow me time to engage my Black Globe before you reply.  ;+)

Unka

- - -------

Disclaimer:  This is me.  Do I sound like anyone else?

Paul Baughman          PHB100@psuvm.bitnet

-------- TML Message #1806 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1806
Date:    Sun, 18 Nov 90 16:20 EST
From: PHB100@psuvm.psu.edu
Subject: BG and jump question

Anyone know what happens if you jump with a black globe on?  Does the BG
prevent it?

- - -------

Disclaimer:  This is me.  Do I sound like anyone else?

Paul Baughman          PHB100@psuvm.bitnet

-------- TML Message #1807 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1807
Subject: Knightfall, travel logs, and customs
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 90 14:10:32 X
From: Iain Fogg <iain@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au>


I just finished reading Knightfall and I'm still perplexed by something
that happens fairly early on the piece. My rating of Knightfall: the
plot is okay, but the trading rules and Massilia sector data are more
worthwhile.


****SPOILER WARNING Skip to the next message if you don't want to know

In one of the early "nuggets" the player's ship is boarded by a patrol
cruiser under the pretense that the player's travel log did not agree
with the library data of the cruiser. What gives here? As far as I knew,
only the ship id was broadcast via the transponder. How did the patrol
cruiser captain get hold of the travel log to compare against library
data? Does this also imply that the system authorities have the travel
logs for all ships? If the players had never been to the system before
how could the cruiser have their travel log in the archive? This fairly
minor detail really bugs me. Does anyone have a reasonable explanation?

On a related note, how do you handle customs in your campaign. For
example, does every starport have a customs station that all characters
must pass through to get access to the startown? What happens when
someone tries to take an illegal weapon onto the world? Who stops them?

Lots of questions, not many answers!

Cheers, Iain.

-------- TML Message #1808 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1808
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 90 18:31:38 -0900
From: George William Herbert <gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu>
Subject: TDR rules...


Metlay says:
>I hereby designate the official name of the alternate-rules project to
>be TDR, short for Traveller Done Right. I hereby declare myself in charge
>of TDR, with final editorial rights over what is and isn't considered
>part of the approved package. I hereby declare that TDR will be public
>domain and will be distributed via Email, and state my intention to
>prevent any and all attempts to inform either GDW or DGP of our work,
>knowing full well that both companies will refuse to believe that a project
>of this magnitude would be attempted without hope of monetary gain, hence
>encouraging copyright infringement suits and the ruin of the careers of
>several promising young RPG writers, myself included.

ahh ahh...oh oh.
My honest, impartial opinion, is that GDW won't give a flying f*ck if someone
else wants to do an alternate rules set.  I also think that keeping them in
the dark is a bad idea.  I don't think we need to tell them, but there's no
need for secrecy.
	I also don't know about making it all public domain: i may be the only
person that GDW's paying for anything, but i _like_ money...  I don't care
about releasing anything I do, but i prefer to keep copyright on my work. 8-(

- - -george

-------- TML Message #1809 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1809
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 90 18:34:16 -0900
From: George William Herbert <gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu>
Subject: re: BAD NEWS!!!


>     Now the amount of energy obtained from the fusion of 1 ton of hydrogen
>into helium is 2.58 E6 Joules (roughly).  This assumes all the mass
>difference between 4 hydrogen and 1 helium is converted to energy.  Since
>this is not true, the actual energy output will be lower.

Uhh.. Check that again.  My memory says that a mere 1/2 kilo of TNT is a 
megajoule.  Methinks you lost between 3 and 6 decimal places somewhere.
[i've done fusion garbage before.  this feels WRONG]

- - -george

-------- TML Message #1810 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1810
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 90 20:56:19 -0900
From: George William Herbert <gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu>
Subject: TDR revisited


In earlier mail i complained that I don't like some of Metlay's TDR ideas.
Let me explain more clearly why...

	What we're trying to do with TDR is Fix things...things we see as brokeand things we want to see done better.  Ideally, we'll come up with a much
better set of rules that the current ones for what we're addressing.
	This does us no good whatsoever if it ends up the 'internet version' of
Traveller.  As long as we're keeping it quiet and not distributing it or info
about it, nobody else is going to find out about it, use it, or benefit from
our work.  If 95% of the MT players/GM's never find out about our better rules,
we've wasted 95% of our effort.
	Now, the BEST way to get our new rules out is a combination of the way
we're doing now (electronic) and the way the majority of people get their rules
and supplemental materials: through the people who make the game.  GDW has
published a lot of expansion material that edges towards what we're doing, m
mostly in Challenge, and has licenced other people to do other things that they
thought were good.  They've no reason to fear us as long as we're not trying to
take their game away.  Which we aren't, we're just trying to make it better.
	I say we tell them about it.  Ask them for input.  Ask them if they'll
either run some of the TDS stuff in Challenge or not object to running it 
somewhere else.  {Challenge will almost certainly leap at the idea...they're
starved for Traveller articles right now).  That's how I see the best way to
spread the good word 8-) 

	And I have a proposed middle ground for the Public Domain issue: I'll 
hereby allow free electronic redistribution w/o restriction of any of MY work
or anything that i help with, but I don't relinquish copyright.  I think that's 
the only balanced solution.

- - -george william herbert
gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu

-------- TML Message #1811 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1811
Subject: Re: Efficiency of Fusion
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 90 11:09:03 +0000
From: Tim Day <tday@ps.ucl.ac.uk>

Robert P Poole <tarquin@athena.mit.edu> writes:
> Since when is it graven in stone that ordinary Hydrogen doesn't
> work in fusion?

Oops.  I checked.  There are fusion chains in which a proton decays to
give a neutron.  But the isotope reactions are a couple of orders
of magnitude more efficient, according to the ``Spaceflight Handbook''.
I also remember that the plans for BIS's Deadulus probe (to Barnard's Star)
called for fusion fuel pellets primarily of deuterium/tritium.  More
tomorrow (and hopefully some numbers). 


-------- TML Message #1812 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1812
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Great balls of black
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 90 9:42:51 GMT

"Brent L. Woods" <woodsb@zoo.ecn.purdue.edu> writes:
>  In message 1782, adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk (Adrian Hurt) writes:
>  >"Brent L. Woods" <woodsb@zoo.ecn.purdue.edu> writes:
> 
>      Personally, I'd rather have one of the recovered Ancient artifacts
> rather than a new-made copy (though I *think* that there were only
> 2,000 of those that were found).  I'd tend to distrust the understanding
> of the copiers.

I'd rather have the Ancient version for another reason - it's probably a
USP code 9 version, compared to the code 1 copy.  Mind you, you don't get
the manual for the original!

>  >This depends on how the PC's get hold of it.  (Assuming that they do, of
>  >course - and assuming that they role-play properly, and don't make use of
>  >what the players read in various manuals.)  If they got one by looting an
>  >Imperial warship, they are probably more powerful than they have any right
>  >to be ...
> 
>      Unless it's a derelict.  As I recall, there is mention of several
> black globe-equipped drelict ships here and there in the official
> publications.  Like the _Kinunir_, for example.

And if they make a good job of looting the Kinunir, they are probably more
powerful than they have any right to be.  Wait till they get caught in
possession of nuclear missiles, Marine battledress, and a black globe.

"Honest, your worshipfulness, er, sir, er, we found them lying around, honest
we did!"
"Oh yeah, where?"
"Shionthy, er, no, that's interdicted, er, oops ..."
"Very well, since you show an affinity for Kinunir class cruisers, let me
allow you to become residents of one - the prison ship Gaesh."

And so the referee gets to use another part of the book.

>  >>      Of course, this can be dangerous.  If you overload your capacitors,
>  >> your ship is destroyed (by violently exploding capacitors, I guess).  I
>  >> imagine that it's not a very good idea if you only have your jump drive
>  >> capacitors available.
>  >
>  >I don't see the danger.  If the ship has absorbed enough energy to make the
>  >jump, it absorbed the energy into the jump capacitors.  If it still exists,
>  >it hasn't overloaded the capacitors.
> 
>      Ah, but what if your jump capacitors are fully charged, you're
> preparing to jump out of a *very* dangerous situation, *and your globe
> gets hit again*?

Perhaps I should have said "I don't see the _extra_ danger".  If, as a result
of using the globe, your capacitors are fully charged, you don't choose to
jump, and you get hit again, boom.  Answer: if your capacitors are fully
charged, you switch off the globe pronto, and try to discharge them as quickly
as possible - e.g. by jumping.

>      I just like to have ample safety margins whenever possible--could
> you tell?  ;-)

There is a safety marging available if your jump drive is capable of more than
a jump 1.  Let the capacitors get sufficiently charged for a jump 1, then
execute a jump 1.  If your jump drive isn't capable of more than jump 1, then
it's probably the sort of ship you want to replace anyway as a first priority.

- - -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

-------- TML Message #1813 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1813
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 90 10:04 EDT
From: METLAY@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Subject: a few thoughts on fusion


...from a nuclear physicist, if that counts for anything.

First off, Robert, I would LOVE to argue stellar physics with you-- your
premise that the Sun runs on "ordinary hydrogen" is correct, but you've
failed to realize what "ordinary hydrogen" IS. It's mostly protium, but
there's a plenty large enough trace percentage of deuterium and tritium
in it to let a deuteron+deuteron=alpha+gammas reaction take place. The
fusion drives in Traveller refine fuel to eliminate nonhydrogen atoms,
and what's left is only partly deuterium, but that part is plenty to get
a good reaction going. If you want abundances, energy yields per atom,
etc., I suppose I could post them, but let's not get ridiculous. The 
primary difference between protium and deuterium, the presence of a neutron,
makes all the difference between fusion and fizzle. If all you had was
protium, you'd need to combine a four-object collision that has a vanishingly
small reaction cross section with electron capture and other weak interactions.
Not impossible. Possibly even practical, in a plasma bath the size of a star.
But with deuterium around in as much quantity as it is, why bother?

And the reaction really takes off if there's tritium involved... the problem
there is that we get extra neutron flux, i.e. hard radiation. But I suggest
that we leave this part of the rules alone-- my next post, which will appear
tonight or tomorrow, will have (among other things) what a real fusion 
reactor's yield is predicted to be, and how fusion would work if I were 
running this universe-- excerpts from the proceedings of a FASCINATING
conference on fusion that took place recently.....

metlay

-------- TML Message #1814 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1814
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 90 14:22:29 GMT
From: Jo Jaquinta <jaymin@maths.tcd.ie>
Subject: Casual Encounter 1

THE PERSONALITY WAREHOUSE
	This shop is located on the bazzar square in the main Space Station
for Serabi (10003,10002,10003 for those with sysgen). Patrons looking for
cargo or just shopping my be set upon by a small, bright yellow ball bouncing
through the air and exclaiming "HiYa!" in a cheery voice. It will bounce 
around and try to attract customers to the shop.
	The Personality Warehouse specialises in giving mechanical objects
"personalities". Anything from a desk calculator to a ship's computer can
be so modified. It is accomplished through ultra small speakers, sensors,
and computing components. Prices range from 100Cr for a purse that screams
when you open it to 1MCr for a complex and fully interactive addition to your
ship's computer. Generally assume 10Cr per word vocabularly. Different 
inflections or being triggered by specific things count as more words. 
	The shop has several items on display. There is "The Guru"; a small
elderly person who makes Zen like responses to philosophical questions. An
attachment that can be placed almost anywhere that can be programmed with
ten choice insult to hurl at passer-bys. The more complex programs may be
"interviewed" via a computer terminal. They comprise a wide variety of uses
from a simple to use user interface for a passenger ship to cargo wise
managers for merchants.

- - -------------
My own players bought three things here that might be useful as examples.

1) For the assistant engineer (laid up in bed so missing the leave) they
got her calculator modified to say "You can press my buttons anytime" in
either a husky male of female voice (depending on the presser). Price 150Cr.

2) A small ball of fluff with eyes on it that shouts "HiYa!" to anyone who
passes it. Price 100Cr.

3) For their currently absent Captain (the one who kidnapped them) they got
a personalised mug. When sipped it murmmurs, moans and sweet nothings with 
increasing intensity as the liquid is drained until with the last drop the 
ejaculations reach their natural climax. Price 1600Cr (they clubbed together).

I assume 10Cr = $1.

						Jo Jaquinta
						jaymin@maths.tcd.ie

-------- TML Message #1815 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1815
From: Jim Cheetham <jim@oasis.icl.stc.co.uk>
Subject: Flickering shields (was Black Globes)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 90 9:10:26 GMT

Hiho all ...
Following on with the ideas inherent in flickering black globes ...

(I'm taking most of this info from Interceptor/Centurion/Leviathan
board games and Legionnaire RPG, from FASA)

They developed a gravitational field effect that generated (I think)
several thousand Gs on it's surface - the first time it was tried
the thing imploded and took out most of the lab as it drained it's
power source (don't we just love inventions that blow up!?)

So the guy came up with the idea of flickering it on and off - this
avoided the exponential curve of the power drain, and still provided
the practical effect.

When the system became portable, they started using it for fighters,
as a marvellous way of stopping laser and mass weapons (yes, photons
at speed have mass ... it's just when they're at rest that they don't)
but found that the constraints of the power supply meant that the flicker
rate couldn't really be varied much.

The methods of firing at a flickering ship were either to keep the weapon
trained continuiously (in the case of laser and particle weapons), or to
try to synchronise the attack with the flicker. Synchronisation proved
to be the best in terms of power expenditure, and so lasers attacked at
the flicker-rate-range for that model of target.

On the ground, the grav-tanks could carry much more equipment, and so
were able to have more control over their shields. However, as the distances
on the ground were much less than those in combat in space, ground bases
units were able to employ painting lasers, whose sole job was to contact the
shield and by varying it's frequency was able to figure out the flicker
rate of the target. This information was then broadcast to every unit,
and the shield was effectively negated.

The grav-shields take a finite amount of time to generate and dissapate,
although short, and this time delay is the basis of the painting laser -
once it has analyzed the flicker rate, it has <x>ms to transmit the
information to other units, before the rate changes.

Simple game mechanics - Legionnaire is a d10 based game, and so it
uses a single d10 roll to see if a shield has been penetrated - the
shields have flicker values of 1 to 9 (quoted as 10 to 90, just to
sound good - note that a rate of 100 doesn't flicker, and destroys
the user as in the initila experiment).

The relative cost of the differing rates, and the improvement in protection
can be sensibly modelled using the distribution of 2D6, as in ...

|                                            |          _/-------
|                                            |        _/
|      __                                    |       /
|     /  \                                   |      /
|   _/    \_                                 |     /
|  /        \                                |    /
| /          \                               |  _/
|/            \                              |_/
+----------------                            +------------------
   Bell curve distribution                     Cumulative distribution.
(apologies to any real statistitions out there ... I think it's clear :-)

Basically, the cumulative curve can be used for both cost and effectiveness,
as the lower rates are cheap but useless, the mid-range ones climb steeply
in both categories, and there isn't much difference between 80 and 90 ...
Note that this is slightly different from FASAs approach, but I think it
makes a bit more sense ...

Perhaps a proper rule master could tidy this idea up a bit ...
And hey! What about the TDR then ? I'm not submitting this as it's not
completely worked out ... anybody willing to help out? (like, do it all!)

A la prochaine ...
        _____               ____  _               _   _  
       (__ __) o  ______   (  __)( )_  ___  ___ _( )_( )_  ___   ______
      (____)  (_)(_)()(_)  (____)(_)_)(__=)(__=) (_)_(_)_)(___)_(_)()(_)
Jim Cheetham, jim@oasis.icl.stc.co.uk, BRA01 0344 424842 x3121 (ITD 763 3121)
              *********************** - as from December 1990 onwards,
              use jim@oasis.icl.co.uk due to corporate restructuring.
    #include <std/disclaimer.h> /* To keep the company lawyer happy */

-------- TML Message #1816 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1816
Archive-Message-Number: 1816
Subject: Customs 
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 90 7:49:05 PST
From: Richard Johnson <richard@agora.UUCP>

I imagine the hassles you have with customs would depend on
(1) how high the local law level is
(2) how big the starport is
(3) whether you work for intelligence and they have a "deal" going.

The general rule here in the states is that when you file your flight
plan, you check the box labeled "adcus".  Then you make sure you're
on time.  "adcus" means "advise customs".  Normally in the U.S. if
you're fair-weather flying (navigating by ground reference, good 
visibility etc.) flight plans are optional.  When you go accross the
border they are mandatory.

Canadian customs is great to work with.  U.S. customs SU**S!  They
are surly, obnoxious, and prone to charge you fines for failing to
declare your pet fish on departure.  Almost all good-sized airports
in North America (the ones served by >1 commercial airline and near
a city > 100,000 people) also have a full-time and on-call customs
office.

In MT terms, then I call these class A and class B starports.  They
*will have* customs.  Otherwise, you might have anything you feel the
adventure needs.  Special ops, duty-free ports, whatever.

Richard

-------- TML Message #1817 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1817
Subject: CAT (Computer-Assisted Traveller)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 90 8:15:10 PST
From: Richard Johnson <richard@agora.UUCP>

Robert P. Poole (tarquin@athena.mit.edu) struck a harmonious chord
in me there.  I'm much more interested in being involved with
efforts to produce programs, services, interfaces, *tools* on computers
to help people either play or ref Traveller (that's a generic sci-fi
role playing term here).

I understand Dan Corrin has a complete archive on "sunbane" which is
(I presume) a node or disk at Universy of Waterloo.  Dan, Bill Morrison,
I and some others whose names are etherialized did some work with 
mapping.

Jo (Yoquinta  sp?) has done some good mapping stuff, and Dan and Mark Cook
have some some sector/subsector generation programs.  From his volume,
I'd guess Rob Dean has a vehicle generation program.

Shall we get somewhat organized around this concept?  

Richard
	richard@agora.hf.intel.com

-------- TML Message #1818 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1818
Subject: PBEM - Urgent Admin Note
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 90 7:41:35 PST
From: Richard Johnson <richard@agora.UUCP>

Everyone make sure they have the right address for Simon Anderson
(Kimball Redd)!  His school is getting a lot of mail at his *old*
address.  I just got this:

:
:At Coventry Polytechnic, all misdirected mail comes into a account for
:student advisory queries. At the moment, we are getting quite a few
:messages for csd096@uk.ac.cov.cck who does not exist! Would it be
:possible to remove this user from the game mailing list?
:
:Thanks in advance
:
:-- 
:James Nash, Computing Services, Coventry Polytechnic, England


His *correct* address is   cse426@cck.coventry.ac.uk
Please change your alias list, if necessary.  There is no need to apologize
to Mr. Nash - I have already done that.  :-)

Richard

-------- TML Message #1819 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1819
Subject: fusion, ref. frames
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 90 17:55:42 EST
From: Robert P Poole <tarquin@athena.mit.edu>

>That's what I thought, until I added the mass of 4 Hydrogen atoms
>and found it to be greater than the mass of one Helium atom.  THinking
>about it, a single hydrogen atom could be converted into a neutron
>(neutron = proton + electron), so on paper, you could get a helium
>atom from 4 hydrogen atoms.  I doubt it's so in real life.

If you're a star, it's very possible.  You can also get a neutron from a proton
by positron emission.  There are lots of things that can happen.  And, yes,
neutrinos do play a role in energy conservation and such.  We still haven't
totally resolved the issue of neutrinos coming from the sun.  (Remember that
neutrino deficit people keep talking about?  It's real, and only now people are
trying to explain it away by "neutrino oscillation," that is, the mixing of
"flavors" of neutrinos.  This, incidentally, has an impact on the detection of
neutrinos.  If the physics is right, then detectible neutrinos should be
converted to undetectible types with greater and greater probability as the
distance from the source increases.  This should probably play a role in the
TDR rules, just to put a limitation on the range of neutrino scanners that is
"realistic.")

By the way, things like Jump Drive and such work just fine if you specify that
they only work in ONE reference frame.  A standard out -- hand waving wise --
is to use the reference frame at rest with respect to the cosmic background
radiation.  That way, you avoid messy stuff like time travel, and you can
always detect microwaves, so it's not as though you're ever "blind" -- they're
everywhere!  I imagine in TDR that a standard piece of equipment in the sensor
suite of a ship is some kind of "Big Bang microwave detector" which must be
used to align the ship with the proper ref. frame.  If damaged, the ship might
misjump or even (gasp!) be sent into never-never land.  Literally.

Robert P. Poole                       tarquin@athena.mit.edu
46 Massachusetts Avenue               MIT Course VIII
311B Bexley Hall                      "We make Idols of our concepts, but
Cambridge, MA  02139                   wisdom is born of wonder."
                                         -- St. Gregory the Illuminator

-------- TML Message #1820 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1820
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 90 18:07 EDT
From: METLAY@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Subject: Fusion reactors



HOW I'D DO FUSION IF I RAN THE TRAVELLER UNIVERSE (and how humaniti would
do it if they could):

Nuclear Instruments and Methods in Physics Research Series A Volume 271,
1988, carried the proceedings of a conference on the theory of Aneutronic
Fusion Reactors (AFRs). Unlike Neutronic Fusion Reactors (NFRs) like the
deuteron-deuteron and deuteron-triton reactors being developed at Princeton
et alii, AFRs utilize a different sort of fusion reaction with different 
yields and byproducts for more favorable results. An overview:

NUCLEAR FISSION: Fuel is enriched uranium 235/238
                 Waste is assorted uranium, plutonium, thorium
                 Reaction is: U+n=2 pieces+more n's
                 Easy to build and run
                 Fuel is costly and dangerous
                 Waste is radioactive and useless
                 Containment vessel becomes "hot" after a long time
                 Can be designed to make bomb-grade materials like plutonium
                 Some designs can runaway; all can melt down
                 Theoretical limit of efficiency: 33%
                 Requires heavy shielding during and after use
                 Power yield per ton: circa .001 MW
                 Smallest feasible reactor: not sure, it's used on subs.

NFR (D+D, D+T):  Fuel is ordinary hydrogen or even water
                 Waste is ordinary hydrogen, water, some helium
                 Reaction is: D+D=alpha or D+T=alpha+n
                 Difficult to build and run
                 Fuel is commonplace and cheap
                 Waste is clean and harmless
                 Containment vessel rapidly gets VERY "hot", must be replaced
                 Can easily make bomb-grade materials like tritium
                 Primary hazard is meltdown, though it wouldn't be easy
                 Theoretical limit of efficiency: 50%
                 requires progressively more shielding as it runs
                 Power yield per ton: .01 MW
                 Smallest feasible reactor: 100 tons, 1 MW

AFR (the ideal): Fuel is either lithium-7 or (ideally) helium-3
                 Waste is helium
                 Reactions are: p+7Li=2alphas, 2x3He=alpha+2p NO NEUTRONS!
                 Extremely difficult to build and run
                 Fuel is somewhat costly but harmless by itself
                 Waste is clean and harmless
                 Containment vessel never gets "hot"
                 Cannot be used to make bomb-grade materials of any sort
                 Cannot runaway, explode or melt down
                 Theoretical limit of efficiency: 100% (85-90% easy)
                 NO SHIELDING NECESSARY, NO RADIATION HAZARD
                 Power yield per ton: 1 MW
                 Smallest feasible reactor: 1 ton, 1 MW 

By "feasible" that means economically feasible for a TL 8 economy. Helium-3
is one tenth the cost of Uranium, and one kilogram-equivalent of the stuff
would give power equal to that obtained by burning 100 metric tons of refined
fuel oil. If we extrapolate efficiency increases and shrinking lower limits,
we get down to the manpack fusion piles of TL 13 and up. They're cheap to run,
environmentally safe, don't make a mess, tremendously efficient, and are 
perfect for civilian use because they can't be converted to weaponmaking.
Not bad, eh? So what's the catch? Simple: they require operating conditions
an order of magnitude more difficult than the ones Princeton's been trying
to reach for decades now. But with grav plates, it might be possible.

What would this mean in Traveller terms? Well, power plants would become tiny
and power worries would vanish; wilderness refueling would become impossible
under most circumstances (or can you get helium from a gas giant?); refined
fuel would be a lot less dangerous (liquid helium can't explode) but more 
costly (liquid helium is tough to keep liquid), and there wouldn't be any such
thing as unrefined fuel any more. And other game-balance-altering effects as
well, but those will do for a start. (No, they won't be put in TDR if i can
help it: the rules are enough of a mess as it is.)

Just a little something to chew on for those of you who wanted to see what an
"Advanced" culture would do for power (assuming we don't discover dilithium
crystals and antimatter any time soon)....

metlay

PS.  Note the power plant efficiency: 1 MW for 100 tons weight for fusion,
unless i got my numbers crossed. How's that compare with the rules?


-------- TML Message #1821 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1821
From: "Mark F. Cook" <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
Subject: TDR Archive Guidelines
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 90 15:30:09 PST

An archive for TDR development has been established and is ready to accept
submissions.  This article details the archive structure, criteria for
acceptance, and some future plans.

The archive will be divided into directories, based on subject matter.
Material in each directory will directly pertain to a specific aspect
of game rules.  The initial directories are as follows:

    TDR/admin          - Transaction affecting the TDR development process
                         itself; this catagory will NOT be used frequently.
    TDR/char_gen       - New rules for character generation.
    TDR/char_classes   - New character classes: including both basic and
                         extended character generation.
    TDR/char_skills    - New skill sets for characters, which conform to
                         the new character generation rules.  May also
                         include mechanisms for defining new skills not
                         already listed.
    TDR/combat         - New combat rules (personal, mass troop, vehicle-
                         to-vehicle, and space combat).
    TDR/mail_archive   - Month-by-month archives of E-mail between submitters
                         and the TDR Administrator or the TDR Archivist.
    TDR/misc           - Anything that doesn't fit into one of the other
                         specific catagories.
    TDR/physics        - Rationales for the physical behavior detailed in
                         the above rules.
    TDR/task_rules     - New rules for resolving non-combat related tasks
                         within the framework of a TDR game.
    TDR/trade_commerce - New trade & commerce rules.
    TDR/vehicle_design - New rules for designing ALL vehicles.  This covers
                         all vehicle forms: land, water, air, and space.
    TDR/vehicle_lists  - New vehicles designed according to the new rules.
    TDR/weapons        - New weapons (or modified existing ones) which conform
                         to the new combat rules.

I will accept any complete rule set (or complete draft) which fits into one
of the above catagories.  I will also accept additions and/or modifications
to rules sets which have already been archived.  I will AUTOMATICALLY reject
any submissions that consist of only general discussion about a particular
aspect of rule development or WIBNI ("Wouldn't it be nice if...") letters.
This type of dialogue should remain within the confines of the TML.  Only
submissions of specific rules should be sent to the archive.  I will also
REJECT any rule set sent in piecemeal.  Submissions must be complete packages
which contain sufficient breadth to deal with the subject matter (character
creation, combat, etc.) in it's entirety.

Requests for the addition of a new rules subdivision (i.e.  a request for 
a new catagory for rules on alien race creation) may be submitted to the
archive.  They will be forwarded to and reviewed by TDR administration.
If the request seems reasonable, a new catagory will be added to the
archive and an announcement will be made via the TML.

When you make a submission, remember two points.  First, plain ASCII only,
no special formatting languages.  I will automatically discard anything
which violates this requirement, regardless of the merit of the actual
submission.  Second, be sure to preface the submission with a synopsis.
If the submission is long, I may not have the time read it in it's entirety
to determine where it should be filed in the archive.  If I'm in a hurry,
and I can't decide where it belongs, it may end up filed in the TDR/misc
directory and forgotten.  You are thus forwarned.

I will make a 'best attempt' to responde to any questions regarding the
archive, especially those which only require a short answer.  I would
prefer to deal with E-mail only, but for those of you who what more immediate
feedback, I can be reached at (503) 750-2949 from 8 AM - 5 PM weekdays, and
(503) 754-1605 evenings and weekends after 10 AM Pacific time.

Within the next month or two, I will be announcing a 'standard format' for
all vehicle submissions (once a draft set of design rules are in place),
which will lend itself to bursting.  This will allow faster seach and
retrieval from the archive.

Regards,

        - Mark F. Cook (TDR Archivist)

-------- TML Message #1822 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1822
From: wrgate.wr.tek.com!oresoft.com!richard@reed.UUCP (Richard Johnson)
Subject: PBEM Stuff
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 90 15:23:54 PST

Please bear with me a little.  Don't post any more PBEM stuff just
yet, wait until AFTER you read turn 10.5 (well the next one).  I've
been diligently working on this one since Friday morning (it's now
Monday afternoon...) and can see I'll tonight at least to tighten it
up and make things flow together.

Anyway, there is a *bunch* of information you are all dying to find
out that hopefully will be answered.  Consider waiting a day or two
and excercise in personal discipline :-).  By waiting, we should
have a lot less backtracking and foretracking of timelines, and my,
Mike's, and Dan's Jobs will all get easier.

I'm gonna keep at this.  You sophonts are great.  Now, if we can
just get Lucasfilm or Spielberg to buy the rights...

- - -- 
Richard

-------- TML Message #1823 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1823
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 90 07:58:01 -0500
From: "T. L. Hayes" <al646@cleveland.freenet.edu>
Subject: Massive Embarrassment (Blush Blush, Glow Glow)



Cardinal Rules -

1) Always check your math -

2) Always "think" about your answer (does it make sense) -

3) Never ASSUME that YOU no longer NEED to do 1 and 2 above -

SORRY!!!  Lunch and physics (number crunch) don't mix.  As several of
you were quick to point out there was a GROSS error (to say the least)
in my calculation of the amount of energy released by the fusion of 1
ton of hydrogen to helium.  (In my defense - several of you who pointed
out the error did not get it right either!)  CAREFUL calculation indicates
that the amount of mass converted during the fusion of 1 ton of H to He is
about 7.1 kg or about 6.40 E17 Joules (big difference)!  The remaining 
calculations were correct and assuming 100% efficiency you would need about
1.1 kg of Hydrogen to power the ship for 1 hour.

DID YOU EVER HAVE ONE OF THOSE DAYS...As if the above wasn't enough.  I
pointed out that assuming a straight line flight path was incorrect. 
That is true.  I said it was inefficient (extremely).  That is also true.
Rob Dean pointed out that the wasted energy is insignificant.  In the
Traveller time frame that is true as well.  The point was the assumption
of a straight line flight path was incorrect.  I IMPLIED that if we were
to fix this problem in-system travel time might become unacceptably long.
This is not correct.  Some quick calculations (yes, I know but I checked
them carefully this time, honest!) show that the difference between a
straight line flight path and a correctly curved flight path for a powered
vehicle would NOT be sufficiently different to justify the worry.  

The point I was trying to make was that some physics problems need to
be fixed, some can be fix, some can't be fixed, and some shouldn't be
fixed.  I simply picked a bad example.

Changing gears now...Jim Baranski says:
>Has anyone considered fusion other elements, or fusing multiple elements
>at high TL?

In stars at least, H fusion is easier (requires lower temperatures) and
(if I remember correctly) generates more available energy.  Stars can
pass through several buring stages: Hydrogen to Helium, Helium to Carbon,
(its been a while but I think the next couple reactions are) Carbon to
Oxygen, Oxygen to Silicon, and lastly Silicon to Iron.  Fusion reactions
beyond Iron *use* energy.  Similarly fision reaction produce less energy
(in general) as you go down toward Iron.  Iron is the most stable element.
Point is - Hydrogen is VERY abundant, the easiest to fuse, and yields the
best energy returns why use anything else?

Robert P Poole says:
>All FTL drive systems that rely on taking a ship out of our space-time
>and plopping it temproarily in some "hyperspace" or "jump space" are
>going to violate relativity.

Bear in mind this all off the top of my head.  If I get time I will look
into this further but ... first the ship accelerates to near light speed
special relativity does not apply.  Special relativity deals only with
constant velocities - no forces, flat space.  Second if the jump drive
takes the ship "out of our universe" into another (higher?) dimension
then even general relativity is not binding - ie it *can not* predict
what will happen.  Moreover, upon leaving our universe you break contact
with all mundane space reference frames.  Traveller says that if you
jump out to a point in space it takes 1 week (120 - 200 hours).  If you
jump back *immediately* it takes 1 week (both are from your point of
view).  If you ask a passerby how long have you been gone he will say
"Two weeks".  What ever physics governs the transfer to jump space and
the time in jump space obviously "fixes" causality!  Incidentally there
is some debate (as I recall) as to whether causality must not be violated.
Also consider worm holes which can exist within general relativity.  They
allow EM radiation to travel at FTL speeds.  I don't remember the various
consequences or restrictions.

Lastly Iain Fogg says:
>On a related note, how do you handle customs in your campaign.

In my games, patrol boats monitor the ships around the planets to watch
for those that would try to land at places other than the Starports so
presumably to avoid customs inspectors.  Much as the Coast Guard does
for US coastlines.  At the Starport, all ships are routinely boarded and
inspected for contraband or their goods are taken to bonded areas and
identified as having not been approved.  The goods can then be inspected
later. 

As for individuals, they *may* have luggage searched like in International
Airports and usually have to show ID Papers.  They also pass through
metal + ??? detectors which will pick up any weapons.  In my game, all
*legally* obtained weapons can be detected because the Imperium requires
that this be the case (in the same way all plastic explosive made in the
US can be detected because the gov. tells the makers to make it that way).

Generally I simply assume this is being done with character consent unless
they are trying to smuggle something or I want to cause trouble then I
role play the customs.  As for patrol boats stopping character's ship, I
do it from time to time - "random safty inspection" or the like.

TLH

- - --
T.L.Hayes                  |
MIT/Lincoln Laboratory     |
Lexington, MA              |

-------- TML Message #1824 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1824
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 90 09:38 EDT
From: METLAY@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Subject: fusion erratum


Whoops. Red-face time from the nuclear physicist who hasn't done nuclear
ASTROPHYSICS lately.... I'd forgotten the proton-proton chain, so don't
waste time correcting me, OK? However, deuteron-triton fusion is immensely
easier to get working in terms of favorable fusion conditions, and if the
reactors using deuterons in Trav are as inefficient as the rules say they are
then you can kiss proton-proton fusion goodbye. Unless we postulate that the
Trav reactors ARE proton-proton reactors ALREADY, which would be stupid
considering that at a TL where a crummy proton-proton reactor would work, a
combination deuteron-deuteron reactor and hydrogen enricher would be orders
of magnitude more efficient, and a helium-3 reactor would be easier still
and cleaner and more efficent and--- you get the idea.

metlay

-------- End of TML Messages --------


-------- TML Message #1825 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1825
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 90 01:52:39 -0500
From: Mark Gellis <f3w@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>
Subject: Thoughts on Fusion, Transmutation, FTL, Future

[I edited the subject line of this message to be more meaningful, and
re-sent it from the request to the list address -- Say, I always liked
the term "Superluminal" more than "Faster than Light"... sounds
sophisticated.  Maybe I'll set up a TML filter to enforce different
vocabulary, like translating all TML messages into Vargr :-) -- James]

A few thoughts...

On fusing hydrogen...I'm not sure we need an exotic process as much as
we need a LOT of heat and pressure, which advanced technology might be
able to provide.  Why develop this when you've got lots of deuterium
(one percent of one percent of the UNIVERSE is deuterium)?  Because 
hydrogen is 73 percent of the universe.  

(I could be wrong on this, but I don't think the sun does much more
than provide a LOT of heat and pressure to get is hydrogen to fuse...
I vaguely remember hearing somewhere that this is a very slow process
compared to other fusion reactions and that might be why it would be
less than profitable.)

By the way, does anyone know anything about what would be involved
with designing a fusion transmutation plant?  The idea is simple...if
you have a lot of hydrogen, but very little silicon or aluminum, or
anything else under the element 26 line, and you have practical fusion
power, you should be able to simply fuse the stuff up until you have
what you want.  Okay, okay, I know it has got to be a LOT more com-
plicated than that.  That's what I'm asking...what would be involved
in this kind of operation?  Could it be done in the first place (it
sounds like it should work, but there may be some aspect of physics
that I don't know about that would make it impractical or even
impossible)?

As for the speed of light stuff...

I don't really care much for game purposes.  I just assume that we
manage to find a way around the speed of light limit (I actually do
not use Jump Drives, but assume that spacecraft can transfer between
solar systems using Stargates, like the ones in 2001, and it is an
instantaneous deal; I find this more plausible, although I'm sure
people will disagree with me on this).

Of course, if it really does bother you, but you want to run an
sf game, and use something like the Traveller system, I will recommend    
an alternative scenario.  I'm using something like it as the background
for the sf I write, which I fear is trash, but you might see the novel
in 1992 or 1993 if I ever get it finished and if anyone is silly enough
to buy the damn thing.  Build on the following assumptions and see
what you get...

1) Faster than light travel is impossible.
2) Slower than light travel up to 1% the speed of light is easy with
  spacecraft using fusion drives (and much faster ships, usually used
  for interstellar colonization, can be built using matter-antimatter
  or laser-propelled lightsails, but this is a more complicated
  process)
3) Space industrialization becomes common.  People discover that it
  is not difficult to built million-person habitats massing 75 billion
  tons (more or less) from common materials found in asteroids and
  the moons of major planets.  In addition, these habitats are roomy
  and pleasant (if necessary, they could support a lot more people than
  just one million), being cylinder habitats about 10 km. by 40 km.
4) It takes about one trillion tons of raw materials to build a 75-
  billion ton, million-person habitat.  
5) The available mass in the asteroid belt of an average solar system
  is about two quintillion tons (2 x 10 to the 18th power).  Far more
  mass is available from any large moon.  Silicon, common in these bodies,
  can be used for solar panels (the mass listed includes panels that
  will provide sunlight and one megawatt per person out to the orbit of
  Saturn, or an equivilent), so you do not even have to use up hydrogen
  for fusion power.
6) It may take about nine hundred years for a colonial population of
  one million to expand in a virgin solar system until its population,
  now in the billions, can send out its own colonies.  Colony ships
  are built for speed, and can cross 10 light years in only one century.
  Thus, the rate of expansion for humanity is one percent the speed
  of light...ten light years every ten centuries.

7) If we do not meet nonhumans in space, we can make our own through
  genetic engineering, uplifting of nonsophont species, etc.  (See 
  Bruce Sterling and David Brin for interesting ideas.)

8) Fusion driven spacecraft can cross a solar system in weeks, meaning
  that a solar system starts to resemble the world in the days of sailing
  ships in terms of how quickly people can move from one habitat to
  another.  The cometary halo becomes the haven of all kinds of craziness
  because no one can patrol an area that extends out to a light year or
  more when your best ships can only move at a tenth of the speed of
  light, or maybe a little faster.  (And there are more than a trillion
  cometary nuclei...tons and tons and tons of raw materials, including
  hydrogen for fusion power...in a cometary halo.)

9) There are more than one million solar systems within a five hundred
 lightyear radius (which might be reached by colony ships in fifty
 thousand years) of Sol system.

Think about what human society and humanity might be like in fifty
thousand years if all this is true.  In particular, keep in mind that
even if you are limited to one solar system (except when you want to
start a new campaign by sending your players off to a new system in
suspended animation) that one solar system, if you really develop its
possibilities, is a pretty big place.  Enjoy.

-------- TML Message #1826 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1826
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 90 14:39:35 -0500
From: "T. L. Hayes" <al646@cleveland.freenet.edu>
Subject: More on Fusion



Metlay says:
>...
>premise that the Sun runs on "ordinary hydrogen" is correct, but you've
>failed to realize what "ordinary hydrogen" IS. It's mostly protium, but
>there's a plenty large enough trace percentage of deuterium and tritium
>in it to let a deuteron+deuteron=alpha+gammas reaction take place. The

I am not a nuclear physicist but an astrophysicist and as such should
point out that deuterium+deuterium is not a primary reaction in the sun.
The level of deuterium is kept depleted by interactions with hydrogen
(protons) forming helium-3 (+gamma).  In low temp stars this is the end
product of fusion.  In slightly higher temp stars He-3 + He-3 -> He-4 + 2H
also occurs however note that NONE of these reactions release neutrons like
the D+D reaction!  At about 2E7 K a whole slew of additional reactions
become possible all still falling under the title of p-p chain nuclear
fusion.  None of those release neutrons either.

Here on Earth the D+D and D+T reactions are used because they are better
reactions for fusion technology at our TL and we can use whatever material
we like (as opposed to what is available).  And you are right they DO give
off neutrons.

Perhaps a better fuel choice at the TL of Traveller would be D+p which is
fairly easy to do but has a relatively low energy yield (about the same
as D+D and about 1/3 D+T) or Li-7 + p or B-8 + positron both of which
have large energy yields (3-4 time D+p).  Bear in mind these numbers are
for conditions *inside* a star ie high temp, high pressure, high density,
plasma reactions.  Needless to say, ground (ship) based reactors will
work differently but not that differently.  Think of the breakthroughs
in EM containment fields or laser ignition systems.  And, hey, let's not
rule out various forms of cold fusion!

Robert P Poole says:
>neutrinos.  If the physics is right, then detectible neutrinos should be
>converted to undetectible types with greater and greater probability as the
>distance from the source increases.  This should probably play a role in the
>TDR rules, just to put a limitation on the range of neutrino scanners that is
>"realistic.")

Two things: First we detected neutrinos from 1987a (the supernova) from
distances much larger then the ranges given for the neutrino detectors in
Traveller (of course there were a hell of a lot of neutrinos coming out
of 1987a).   Second the detection technology will have improved greatly by
that TL (they not running around with large vats of cleaning fluid after
all) so more of the neutrinos that are detectable will be detected.

A different issue (referencing both of the above) if you choose the 
"correct" fusion chain then you can use reactions that do not emit neutrinos
thus rendering your power plants "invisible" to neutrino detectors!  Which
brings up a different point - if Traveller says that neutrino detectors
can detect power plants (because of the fusion presumably) then they must
be using reactions that give off neutrinos rendering our arguments mute
unless we want to remove the utility of neutrino detectors from the game
(which I don't).  That is the use of the neutrino detectors isn't it?

Points to Ponder

TLH

- - --
T.L.Hayes                  |
MIT/Lincoln Laboratory     |
Lexington, MA              |

-------- TML Message #1827 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1827
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 90 13:58:42 CST
From: Chuck McKnight - Law <mcknight@tusun2.mcs.utulsa.edu>
Subject: Computer Assisted Traveller

Hi All,

I've been busy porting a lot of the *nix traveller software to MSDOS and 
would be VERY interested in writing/porting additional software for
Traveller/MegaTraveller.  If there is an organized project, could someone
kick me a note in the mail?

Chuck McKnight
mcknight@tusun2.mcs.utulsa.edu

-------- TML Message #1828 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1828
Date:    Tue, 20 Nov 90 16:17 EST
From: PHB100@psuvm.psu.edu
Subject: Gravitational shield?

>TML nightly     Mon Nov 19 20:32:42 PST 1990    Volume 12 : Issue 5
>
>Jim Cheetham says...
>
>They developed a gravitational field effect that generated (I think)
>several thousand Gs on it's surface - the first time it was tried
>
>When the system became portable, they started using it for fighters,
>as a marvellous way of stopping laser and mass weapons (yes, photons

Gravity for stopping lasers?  This would work for missles, maybe, via tidal
effects, but not lasers.  The G-field would provide a doppler shift to the
shorter wavelengths, *INCREASING* the destructive energy applied to your hull.
This is exactly the opposite of what you want.

Unless I'm all wet, of course <drip, drip, drip>  ;+)

- - -------

Disclaimer:  This is me.  Do I sound like anyone else?

Paul Baughman          PHB100@psuvm.bitnet

-------- TML Message #1829 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1829
Subject: software, neutrinos, FTL
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 90 01:02:17 EST
From: Robert P Poole <tarquin@athena.mit.edu>

I have been in contact with the archivist for TDR.  I have agreed to handle all
software submissions.  Send your sourcecode to me at tarquin@athena.mit.edu --
ASCII sourcecode only, please, no uuencoded binaries.  I am interested in
software for system generation, character generation, starship design, etc.

About neutrinos:  Yeah, so we detected neutrinos from a distant supernova.  But
think about how much energy that supernova generated.  It goes without saying
that even though a supernova is distant, it also puts out a lot more neutrinos
in a few seconds than most starts put out in many, many years.

As I recall, the neutrino detectors in Traveller are there for detecting enemy
ships in combat, the idea being that you can home in on the fusion plant of the
enemy ship which is bound to produce neutrinos.

It seems to me that these neutrino detectors are probably going to be sensitive
to the flavor of the neutrino, i.e., whether it is a mu-neutrino or an electron
neutrino, and will either react or not depending.  With flavor mixing falling
out of theoretical quantum mechanics, we could be seeing a significant decrease
in detection at distances on the order of 1 AU.

About FTL:  I've heard the argument before that "if it ain't in this universe,
we can't know what laws apply to it."  The SR reverse time travel result falls
out of the discontinuity which permits superluminal propagation.  I am pretty
sure of my sources.  Apparently, the method has nothing to do with it, it's
strictly the fact that there is a propagation from point A to point B faster
than a photon could do it that gives the time travel result.

Note I am not talking about wormholes, which are weird animals.  But it is also
a "known fact" that causality can be violated inside wormholes.  So, the only
question I have is, who wants to get the electrons stripped of his atoms first?
:-)

Robert P. Poole                       tarquin@athena.mit.edu
46 Massachusetts Avenue               MIT Course VIII
311B Bexley Hall                      "We make Idols of our concepts, but
Cambridge, MA  02139                   wisdom is born of wonder."
                                         -- St. Gregory the Illuminator

-------- TML Message #1830 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1830
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 90 10:14 EDT
From: METLAY@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Subject: PBEM MAIL FIX-- UTMOST URGENCY!


To any and all PBEMers: 

One of the people who may or may not be on your mailing list is an 
observer with no character of his own, named Eric Sergienko. If you 
have this name on your list, REMOVE IT until further notice. I have
just fielded a very angry letter from a Navy sysadmin at Eric's old
site: I have no details, but his address has stopped working and he's
now considered a "nonexistent" user. Eric, if you read this, contact
your sysadmin or netmgr at once and resolve the problem; you will have
to follow game turns via the TML along with everyone else until things
are straightened out and the ruffled feathers are smoothed on all sides.

Sorry for the bandwidth, folx, but this is faster than a distribution.

metlay

-------- TML Message #1831 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1831
Date:     Wed, 21 Nov 90 10:58:22 EST
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Astrophysics and Hydrogen

Since I am not any sort of physicist, I'll go ahead and ask one more stupid
question.  I see by my CRC that deuterium makes up 0.15% (or was it 0.015%)
of hydrogen on Earth.  Is there any reason to believe that this represents
a universal distributrion of the stuff?  I realize full well that I am not
going to find a gas giant with a pure deuterium atmosphere, but what about one
with twice the universal average?  What limits would be reasonable?  

I saw a note in some book review recently where the reviewer thought that 
identifying objects' planets of origin by the isotope ratios of various
elements was a nifty idea.  He apparently hadn't read some of the things I have;
such as the proceedings of a 1970 conference on metallurgy applied to ancient
numismatics, where it is noted that it is apparently quite feasible to identify
which mines silver came from by the distribution of the isotopes of the trace
amounts of lead remaining after refining.  Of course, if you melt down lead
from several different mines in one lump, you can no longer identify it that
way.  (So if you needed an untraceable object, all you would need to do would
be to combine raw materials from two or three places.)

Rob Dean


-------- TML Message #1832 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1832
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 90 09:01:01 PST
From: Vote For NoneOfTheAbove Write In Candidate 21-Nov-1990 1141 <baranski@meridn.enet.dec.COM>
Subject: Not All Fusion is Created Equal

According to all these Fusion reactions that people are posting, not all Fusion
is created equal.  

All these different Fusion reactions are *real* interesting, and it would be
nice to have someone summarize them as library data, but I don't think it's
necessary to get into this detail in TDR RULES.  As far as the rules go, we can
just pick a fusion reaction which fits nicely as the reaction commonly used in
TDR, and allow powerplant TL differences to indicate the different fusion
techniques, and perhaps pick different fusion reactions for different TLs.

And I can have an adventure about a secret research station working on a
neutrinoless reactor!

Date: Tue, 20 Nov 90 07:58:01 -0500
From: "T. L. Hayes" <al646@cleveland.freenet.edu>
Subject: (1823) Massive Embarrassment (Blush Blush, Glow Glow)

"Point is - Hydrogen is VERY abundant, the easiest to fuse, and yields the
best energy returns why use anything else?"

Well, I don't know anything about fusion physics, so I'm speaking from
ignorance.  I'm assuming that there might be other fusion reactions which might
have advantages other then generic H.

But then, metlay is saying helium-3 is a more efficient reaction, and you're
saying hydrogen gives more energy???  which is it?

As far as FTL causing causual problems...  I just don't see it, and don't care
about it in game.

I always wondered what refined and unrefined fuel meant.  I never did
understand how you could have fusion reactors, some of which operated on
unrefined fuel,and some which operated on refined fuel.  For that matter, I've
always given my ships refineries or unrefined fuel reactors.  I guess the
current discussion indicates that refined fuel is D, and unrefined is H???

Jim Baranski
Norwich CT

-------- TML Message #1833 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1833
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 90 16:18:38 -0500
From: "T. L. Hayes" <al646@cleveland.freenet.edu>
Subject: Combat! (or lack thereof)



So what does everyone think of the MT combat system?  I haven't used it much
(I am only now setting up a group of semi-regular players) but it looks...
cumbersome.  Is it?  The part that looks awkward is the interupts.  You have
two groups the playes and the NPC's:  P1 wants to move 4 squares N1 interupts
P1 and P2 interupts N1 so P2 goes then N1 goes then P1 moves another square
and the whole thing starts over!  I am doing this right aren't I?  Is this
system as messy to use as it looks?

I like the concept of the interupt that is being able to shoot at someone
who is ducking from cover to cover.  This is a fault in games that have 
everyone move then everyone shoots.  What if we used a system something like
Twilight:2000.  Everyone acts on their dex rank (dex/3 round up).  On dex
rank 5 all the fives go - move or shoot on rank 4 the fours and the fives go
and so on till one where everyone goes.  There is a list of possible actions
that you can do during a dex rank and everything in a dex rank occurs at
the same time.  Weapons may need a rate of fire (ie 1/dex rank or 1/2 dex
ranks or 2/dex rank etc).  If one side has surprise then only that side gets
to go.  If you do the same thing every dex rank (declare at the beginning-
no changes during the round) then you go every dex rank regardless of your
dex rank rating.  This would allow "slow" character to lay down cover or
suppressing fire for faster characters by firing every dex rank.

If this sound interesting AND if MT combat is really as messy as it looks
would anyone be interested in seeing a complete and compatible write up
of this system?  I think it should be easy to take from Twilight.  The games
are similar in some ways.  In fact 2ed. Twilight uses a task system that
appears to be similar to MT but I'm not sure as I don't have a copy of 2ed.
only 1ed.  Can anyone with a copy of 2ed Twilight comment on that as well?

Combat is the part of the game that I like the best.  I would like to find
a good, "realistic" (careful-my definition of realistic may vary from 
yours :-) ), and yet quick and easy combat system to use.  One that doesn't
bog down play with tons of charts and tables and dice rolls but still adds
some realism (like hit location).  I also find it difficult to go from
hand-to-hand to melee to gun fire with one system.  Does anyone else have
this problem?

If you don't think the Twilight combat system is a good idea I am open to
suggestions.

TLH

Sorry about the ramblings - Pre-Turkey Day fatigue

PS HAPPY THANKSGIVING, Y'ALL!!!

- - --
T.L.Hayes                  |
MIT/Lincoln Laboratory     |
Lexington, MA              |

-------- TML Message #1834 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1834
Subject: Re: Fusion
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 90 17:08:16 +0000
From: Tim Day <tday@ps.ucl.ac.uk>

The quoted bits are all taken (without permission) from ``Nuclear Fusion'' 
by Keishiro Niu (pub. CUP)...

``
         1          4
        4 H +2e   =  He + 27.05 Mev
         1          2                   (with a 7% mass decrease)

  The sun continuously shines because of this nuclear fusion.  However
from a small power station on earth (by contrast to the giant sun) the
fusion energy released cannot be obtained because of the very low reaction
rate.''

This reaction has a slow rate (10e-24 of the ``cross-section'' of the
Deuterium-Deuterium reaction) because of the small chance of a colliding
proton decaying into a neutron + positron + neutrino.   But maybe Traveller
fuel plants could use this reaction with the aid of a nuclear damper in decay
rate increase mode ?

Keishiro then goes on to describe three ``generations'' of fusion reaction
(each requiring higher temperatures).

1st Generation:
``      2    3     4     1 
         D +  T =   He +  n   + 17.6MeV
        1    1     2     0
has the greatest possibility of being utilised.''

``The half life of T is 12 years so none exists naturally.''
But it can be synthesised as an intermediate stage of
        6    2     4
         Li + D = 2 He + 22.4 MeV
        3    1     2

[Lithium has never been mentioned in conjunction with trav plants, so scratch
this one].

2nd generation:
``Hydrogen found on earth includes Deuterium in the mass ratio of 1:5000''

                   3     1
                    He + n + 3.27MeV
                   2     0
        2    2  
         D +  D =     OR [with about even probability]
        1    1
                   3    1
                    T  + H  + 4.03MeV
                   1    1

``An oilcan full of heavy water will supply enough energy to run a car for a
lifetime if the car has a fusion engine.''

Yup !  Looks like Trav fusion engines are massively inefficient.
This reaction also outputs neutron radiation and the evil radioactive hydrogen
isotope tritium: half life 12 years, diffuses through anything, gets into
water, organic compounds, YOU!

3rd generation reactions:
``
        1    11       4
         H +   B  =  3 He + 8.7MeV
        1     5       2

        1     6       3    4
         H +   Li =    He + He + 4.0MeV
        1     3       2     2
''
Nice because it outputs nothing but helium (but requires Lithium and/or
Boron again, so forget this one for Trav).


Effieciency of Trav power plants
- - ---------------------------------
The prescence of neutrino detectors in MegaTrav, and the fact that 1 ton of
gas giant atmosphere from your refuelling shuttle can be refined
into 1 ton of fuel, not just 0.2kg of Deuterium, is strong evidence that the
proton-proton reaction is somehow used in Trav power plants.
The reactor will probably incorporate sort of weak-interaction rate
increaser (a nuclear damper related device or other handwaving).

1MeV = 1.6e-13 Joules

Avogadro's Number: 6e23 per mole

          1 2
1 Mole of  H  weighs 0.002kg
          1

          1 2
1 Mole of  H  releases 0.5 * 6*10^23 * 27.05*1.6*10^-13 = 1.3*10^12 J
          1            

          1 2
1 Ton of   H  releases 1000/0.002 * above = 6.6*10^17 J
          1

Striker
- - -------
  A TL15 fusion plant outputs 6MW, using 1.5l/hour fuel.
  1l fuel weighs 0.07kg = 7*10^-5 tons.
  Energy out (according to book) = 6*10^6 * 3600             = 2.2*10^10 J
  Energy out if 100% efficient   = 1.5 * 7*10^-5 * 6.6*10^17 = 6.9*10^13 J
  => Efficiency 0.032%    (about 0.01% at TL9).

MegaTraveller
- - -------------
  A (large enough) TL15 reactor outputs 18MW using 9l/hour.
  This is 3 times as much as a Striker reactor, but needs 6 times as much fuel
  => Efficiency 0.016%

TL16 plants are marginally better.  And then at TL17 antimatter plants appear
(Hmm... wonder why there aren't many TL17 planets around :^)

If Trav plants were using the D-D reaction, they would be 7.4 times
more efficient... about 0.25%.

You can think of any number of excuses for poor inefficiency.  Just how
do you extract useable energy from a fusion reactor anyway ?  Apparently it is
somehow theoretically possible to extract electric current directly; this would
be so useful you might not be too bothered about efficiency.
Current power stations need huge amounts of cooling water.  Can you radiate
off waste heat fast enough from a small starship ?  Possibly the vast majority
of the fuel (99.984%) is just vented off as cooling.

It's a shame there isn't a bit more variety in Trav fusion plants over the 
tech levels, especially considering that low tech chemical fuel power plants
about double in efficiency every two tech levels.

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
  Tim Day        tday@uk.ac.ucl.ps     | If I knew how starship drives really
  Department of Insanity and Surveying | worked, I'd be writing to the patent
  UCL, Gower St., London  WC1E 6BT     | office, not the Traveller mailing list
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

PS Orca's original 0.0000002% was based on H-H fusion being 4*10^6 times better
than it really is due to c being wrong, and the calculated energy release
should have been per 4 moles of H, which corrects it to  0.8% efficiency.
Where did you get the amount of fuel used from ?  Are maneuver drives more
efficient than power plants ?

-------- TML Message #1835 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1835
From: Jim Cheetham <jim@oasis.icl.stc.co.uk>
Subject: Gravitational effects
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 90 8:26:19 GMT

> Paul Baughman writes ...
>
>Gravity for stopping lasers?  This would work for missles, maybe, via tidal
>effects, but not lasers.  The G-field would provide a doppler shift to the

Well, perhaps everything isn't exactly real-world scientific (like, let's
not get into physics flaming!) but you remember the Einstein experiment
that involved watching the sun eclipse a star, and they proved that gravity
had an effect on photons ... well ... the idea here is just to stop the
laser hitting properly - anything that deflects it by even a small amount
is good, as lasers have to hit parallel to a surface to do the most
damage.

Basically, the shields throw such a huge spanner in the works that if
they don't totally negate incoming weapons, they at least screw up the
aiming, detonation and so on ...

(Mind you, that's AOK for 1/2 man fighters, but how do they protect
 the Leviathan ships ? They're several kilometers long ... Hmmm ...)

        _____               ____  _               _   _  
       (__ __) o  ______   (  __)( )_  ___  ___ _( )_( )_  ___   ______
      (____)  (_)(_)()(_)  (____)(_)_)(__=)(__=) (_)_(_)_)(___)_(_)()(_)
Jim Cheetham, jim@oasis.icl.stc.co.uk, BRA01 0344 424842 x3121 (ITD 763 3121)
              *********************** - as from December 1990 onwards,
              use jim@oasis.icl.co.uk due to corporate restructuring.
    #include <std/disclaimer.h> /* To keep the company lawyer happy */

-------- TML Message #1836 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1836
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 90 17:37:33 -0500
From: wrgate.wr.tek.com!tnc!m0068@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Open question for TML

From: m0068@tnc.UUCP (Stephen D Smith)
Subject: Open question to the TML
Organization: personal mailbox at The Next Challenge
 
I've been passing along the TML to Scott Kellogg, so he's been
seeing your responses to my recient posting of his ship designs.
(Albeit with a time lagg.) Well he's been busy again and I have
about 58k worth of them. Scott has been running his own campaign
and has dropped our characters down on a planet that is essentially
in the middle of World War II, at least as far as technology is
concerned. After taking a fighter in the ship's bow, (the tail is
still sticking out of the hole right now!), I get the feeling we'll
be here for a while. In this new bunch of designs Scott has re-
created some of the craft of WWII TL's.
 
My question to the TML, (considering the problems from my last
massive posting of Scott's stuff), is does anyone mind/object?
Here's a listing and brief description of what I've got waiting;
 
****************************************************************
 
Ballistic Missile Sub TL8 "Typhoon" Class "Red October" subclass
     Meant to simulate either the book or movie version.
 
Attack Submarine TL8 "Alfa" Class
     "Alfa" class attack sub is featured in 'The Hunt for Red
     October'
 
Heavy Cruiser TL 15 "Atlantic" Class
     "Atlantic" class heavy cruiser typical of the Imperium
 
System Defence Drone TL 15 "Watcher" Class
     Used by Imperial Navy and Scout forces the 'Watcher' series
     is usually deployed from an Air/Raft bay. Four 'Watcher's can
     be stored in a bay. With its fuel scoops it can spend up to
     a year inside a gas giant's atmosphere or submerged in an
     ocean before requireing maintenance.
 
Reconaissance Drone TL 15 "Lurker" Class
     A TL 15 smart weapon. The 'Lurker' is used primarily by
     Imperial ground forces. The Army and Marines use it for
     patrols, guard duty, harrassment raids as well as systematic
     search and destroy missions. 
 
Patrol Submarine TL6 "Gato" Class
     This is the Fleet Type sub from the Pacific theater of WWII.
     Don't you hate it when players drop in on your nice little low
     tech planet and proceed to loot, kill and maim and you don't
     have anything to throw at them?  Just wait till they try to
     refuel...
 
Dreadnaught TL 15, "Kokirrak" Class
     "The 'Kokirrak' class dreadnaught is one of the more common
     classes of capitol ships in service in the Spinward Marches;
 
Attack Submarine TL8 "Los Angeles" Class
     The US Navy's big attack sub. It is the early version, before
     the fitting of 12 verticle launch tubes for Tomahawk missiles.
 
Fleet Escort TL 15 "P.F. Sloan" Class
     "The 'P.F. Sloan' Class fleet escort is intended for routine
     fleet security and support.
 
Dreadnaught TL 15, "Plankwell" Class
     "Plankwell" class dreadnaught a more specialized ship than
     the multi-task oriented 'Tigress' class. Lacking the extensive
     troop complement and the large fighter screen, the "Plankwell"
     fulfills a more traditional battleship role, as the center of
     a fleet of supporting ships.
 
Darrian Fixed Wing Air/Raft TL13 "Saab" Class
     The 'Saab' is renouned as the safest air/raft in operation.
 
Fast Cutter TL 15 "Sparrow" Class
     The 'Sparrow' class cutter is designed for use as an auxillury
     by warships.
 
Heavy Fighter TL 15 "Talon" Class
     The 'Talon' class fighter is commonly carried aboard heavy
     carriers and other naval vessels.  Occasionally, a ship which
     does not ordinarily carry fighters will substitute a 'Talon'
     for one of its launches. 
 
Light Tanker TL11 "Cow" Class
     The 'Cow' class tankers were concieved as a supplement to
     'Wolf' operations.  A 'Cow' can easily support two 'Wolves'.
     More often it is called upon to support more by making
     multiple fuel runs.
 
Tanker TL11 7-11 Series
     In order to use the heavy firepower of the 'Wolf' carriers,
     they travel in large numbers. Fleets of one hundred to one
     thousand 'Wolves' are common. These fleets are supported by
     large numbers of '7-11' series tankers.
 
Light Intruder TL 15 "Fox" Class
     The 'Thunder Fox' class light intruder is the Imperial Navy's
     equivalent of the attack sub.
 
Light Intruder TL 15 "Thunder" Class
     Fuctions as squadron coordinator and houses the squadron's
     black globe.
 
Dreadnaught TL 15, "Tigress" Class
     Although some older battleships of greater displacement remain
     in service, the 'Tigress' class dreadnaught is the largest
     line-of-battle vessel currently in service with the Imperial
     Navy in the Spinward Marches.
 
****************************************************************
 
Is there interest for these designs? Unless I get a lot of
objections I'll wait three days and post Scott's stuff in small
amounts to keep from swamping the list again. 
 
          Stephen D Smith   USENET: m0068@tnc.UUCP
                            BIX: sdsmith

- - --Name = STEPHEN SMITH  Mailbox # = 68

-------- TML Message #1837 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1837
Subject: PBEM Question from Kelly
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 90 9:10:34 PST
From: Richard Johnson <richard@agora.UUCP>


I got this Saturday morning, and thought I'd share it with all of us --
looks interesting.


: I'm trying to get a few facts about the Alcyon.
: First, if anyone knows the formula for the volume of a tetrahedron, please
;   send me the dimension(s) for one of 30 million cubic meters.  I need the
:   length of an edge, and would also appreciate height (from base to apex)
:   and area of a face.

: Second, I'd like a definitive answer on the small craft (not including
:   probes, etc) carried by the Alcyon.  At the moment, I have listed:

:  "Fighter" (40t; given the size and the presence of a stateroom, I'd
; 	     call this a Combat Pinnace)
:   Fuel Shuttle (95t?)
:   Command Shuttle (95t?)

- - ------------------------------
Kelly St.Clair (Nishu Neriika)
kstclair@jacobs.cs.orst.edu


For those who dont remember, the Alcyon is a jump tender, a tetrahedron
with three riders and a bridge up front.  I sure wish I remembered the
formula, but alas do not.

Other small vehicles I recall are two grav bikes, an air raft, and grav
bus, and a submersible.  There are also small craft that might be
carried by the Aurora, Paladin, and Talisman.
Richard

-------- TML Message #1838 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1838
Date: 24 Nov 90 03:56:23 EST
From: Leonard Erickson <70465.203@compuserve.COM>
Subject: Reaction drives, fusion reactors

Back in grade school and high school in the late 60s/early 70s, there
was a common poster in science classrooms that gave data on various
sorts of reaction drives.

I remember the figures for a few sorts of drives (all figures to one
significant figure)
drive			specific impulse
chemical		400 (shuttle main engines are about 420)
"nuclear heating"	800 (Heinlein's ships using "single H")
fusion			600,000
photon			30,000,000

Specific impulse is (roughly) defined as pounds of fuel per second per
pound of thrust. Or you could use kilos, or tons. (Yes, I know that we
are mixing mass units with force units, that's the way it's done)

When I first bought Traveller I checked, and found a comment that
stated that a ship running at 1g on maneuver drive would have about a
weeks fuel. I worked out the specfic impulse, and it came out very
close to 600,000. I guess they read the same chart. Note that a Saturn
V (6 million pounds thrust) would only need 10 lbs per second of fuel
if it used a fusion drive. 

This makes calculations *very* easy. And note that for a manuever
drive, the "inefficiency" is because you *have* to throw away a lot of
the fuel as reaction mass.

Also, note that the exhaust plume is *very* hot. Probably glowing in
the ultraviolet! You'd see it as this incredible purple color. And
"tailgating" isn't advised. And landing will tend to burn holes in
*anything*. 

The *basic* rocketry equations are quite simple, though you can mostly
ignore them for a fusion drive as the mass ratios become so low, that
you can ignore them for most manuevers. 

Finally, a photon drive, is nothing more than one *hell* of a laser. 
I
would be like. You could easily use it for carving *planets* into
chunks!

Oh yes, with the scale of fusion they have in Traveller, you don't
*need* transmutation. Just convert rock, asteroids, *garbage* into a
plasma. At a high (but not unreasonably so, compared with some of the
fusion reactions discussed here) temperature, *all* chemical bonds
fail. So you can run the plasma thru what amounts to a overgrown mass
spectrograph, and seperate out not just pure elements, but likely pure
*isotopes*. And after the capital costs, it'd be cheap to operate. 
Store "junk" elements as convenient compounds (like silicon dioxide) 
and use the rest. So what if gold is only a few parts per million? 
Guess how much that adds up to from even a *small* asteroid. 



-------- TML Message #1839 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1839
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 90 15:27:22 MST
From: "Nick Christenson, University of Arizona" <npc@electron.physics.arizona.edu>
Subject: Fusion and TDR.

(For reference purposes, my background is a physics grad
student specializing in stellar astrophysics.)

The fusion debate on TML has been going on for a while now and
most of the arguments have been factual, but I think many of
the posters have been presenting facts without thinking about
what they want to say.  The important question to address is:
How should powerplants work in TDR.  We can decide on what 
sort of energy efficiency we want and then figure out how the
power plants work (and fudge them to make them work out right,
this is what GDW did, but not terribly well) *or* we can figure
out how the power plants are going to work and let our game
mechanics be decided by whatever ramifications the physics has.
I favor the latter.  It's no more work and it's more realistic.
The disadvantage is that it would make TDR look less like the
familiar Traveller.  It is apparent that Metlay, Dow and some
of the others on this net have become aware that Traveller Done
Right may have very little resemblence to Traveller.  

First off, let's assume that a ship's power plant uses D+D for
its reaction.  Now we fudge fuel requirements for various things
to give space and weight figures that we like.  There are some
things that we can't fudge, though.  First, fuel skimming.  Since
about 1% (from memory) of natural Hydrogen is Deuterium, skimming
for fuel will now take 100 times longer than it used to (how long
it would take using a p+p cycle, to my knowledge, has never been
stated authoritatively.)  Note that if a majority of fuel intake
is used for reaction mass, this isn't a problem.  We could have 
power plants use p+p and then skimming is still viable.  Then we 
must have rules for "supercharging" the engine using higher 
concentrations of Deuterium.  We could also use one of the higher 
level fusion methods Metlay suggested, but that would prevent skimming 
altogether.  I think the first option is best.  In any case, we 
calculate energy conversion (and mass loss using fuel as reaction 
mass, regular Hydrogen could be used for this.)

>From the choice of power system, many things have been decided for
us.  Can neutrino detectors work?  Well, that depends on what type
of fusion reaction is used (as an occasional twist, specialized
ships might be built using a different fusion change.)  The important
thing (and this will go for computers, maneuver drives, jump drives,
screens, and weapons too!) is to decide how something will work,
figure out the consequences and if we don't like the consequences,
start over having the system work a different way.  Note that
the "committee" method is especially unsuited to this as people's
opinions on which way things work will differ.  I say since its 
Metlay is in charge he can decide.  Since he also knows what he's
doing with game mechanics and physics, he can figure out the 
consequences.  Of course this has him doing all the work, but that's
what I had said earlier.  Any serious game designer knows that
you have to do all the hard work by yourself.

Oh, as a note to the person who asked (if they had the endurance
to read this far:-), we can expect Deuterium concentrations on 
earth to be roughtly the same elsewhere in the galaxy.  Any excess
Deuterium created in the p+p process gets eaten up quickly
in a D+p reaction that has a much, much higher cross section than
p+p.  The 1% D rule can be expected to hold true just about everywhere.

Nick Christenson
npc@electron.physics.arizona.edu

-------- TML Message #1840 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1840
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Gravity vs. lasers
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 90 9:51:26 GMT

Jim Cheetham <jim@oasis.icl.stc.co.uk> writes:
> 
> > Paul Baughman writes ...
> >
> >Gravity for stopping lasers?  This would work for missles, maybe, via tidal
> >effects, but not lasers.
> 
> ...					you remember the Einstein experiment
> that involved watching the sun eclipse a star, and they proved that gravity
> had an effect on photons ... well ... the idea here is just to stop the
> laser hitting properly - anything that deflects it by even a small amount
> is good, as lasers have to hit parallel to a surface to do the most
> damage.

Quick reality check here; just how strong a gravitational field do you need
to have any useful effect on an incoming laser beam?  What effect is such a
field going to have on any mass in the vicinity?

"Captain, we stopped that pirate's lasers.  We also moved the third moon of
Regina out of its orbit.  I don't think we're very welcome here any more ..."

- - -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

-------- End of TML Messages --------

