Subj: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000
Date: 3/4/00 6:24:26 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)
Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
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Traveller-digest Saturday, March 4 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2000
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: OT: The computer dials every number in an exchange
Using no ground troops (was Re: Silent firearms...
Re: Silent weapons...
Re: T4 and the maneuver rating
Errata for First Survey/Returning to the TML
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
Re: Silent firearms...
Re: Using no ground troops (was Re: Silent firearms...
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
Re: Silent firearms...
Self-sufficient planets
Vs: Vs: Computing quess, Tech availlability
Re: Silent firearms...
Re: Silent firearms...
Re: Crossing rifts and stuff
re: Self-sufficient planets
Anti-Tank Rifles (was RE: Silent firearms...)
RE: Silent firearms...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 21:40:02 -0000
From: "Derrick Jones"
Subject: Re: OT: The computer dials every number in an exchange
Dom wrote....
>ISDN is offered at a rate which includes a number of hours free per month.
45UKP includes 15UKP of calls per month (or they might have changed it to
30UKP with 10UKP worth not so long back)
>>As you'll discover in the telecom groups (and in Fidonet's
>>international echoes) folks outside the US and Canada have *real*
>>trouble grasping the way we pay for phone service here. They just don't
>>"get" the idea of unlimited local calling for a fixed monthly rate.
>Nope, we *get* the idea, we just don't *get* offered the service.
I just got free internet access in evenings (6pm to 12pm) on weekdays
and all weekend, which in essence means free internet access. Don't think
I can use both lines on my ISDN with it though :-(
It's another step closer... Pity about my voice calls though!
Derrick
Derrick Jones
St Helens
Lancashire UK
http://www.btinternet.com/~dojones.whitestar
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 15:41:01 -0800
From: sneadj@mindspring.com
Subject: Using no ground troops (was Re: Silent firearms...
"Douglas E. Berry"
At 03:06 PM 3/4/2000 -0500, David Pulver wrote:
>>>If all you have is orbital superiority, and the world is self-
>>>sufficient, you have two choices. You either sit there in orbit
not >>>controlling the world, or your wipe it clean of life.
>
>>True in the broadest sense, but it hinges on a definition of >>"control." What elements do you want to control? Their access >>to space? Their ability to do you harm? Rewrite their >>constitution? Their thoughts? Any permanent action will take a >>long time and require nation-building.
Any temporary
>>action with troops is as illusionary as one excercised by air or >>space power.
>I assumed that we were speaking of a world that had some >resource or facility that you wanted to control for your own side. If >the mission is just to prevent the world from reaching space, a >siege using a destroyer flotilla would probably do the job. This is >what I always saw the HG "Siege"
assignment as being. The >others will require a long time. But the last one, controlling their
>thoughts, *requires* that troops be on the ground. Winning their >hearts and minds means getting down among the population.
Why? Perhaps for the Imperium, which clearly has a very limited
understanding of sophont psychology. However, both the Hivers
and the Zhodani know much more. Rather than sending anyone
down to the planet until it is fully secure you could:
Insert subliminal messages in any broadcast communications
Tailor viruses to produce useful emotional states or remove
undesirable emotional states from the populace (If anyone has
nanotech they can simply rewrite the populace's loyalty, but this is
well beyond normal TLs).
Create propaganda (using their superior knowledge of sophont
psychology) which actually works on a large percentage of the
population.
Or, for a more direct, immediate, & heavy-handed control:
1) Infect *everyone* on the planet with a gradually (weeks to
months) lethal disease or poison which you hold the antidote to
(idea borrowed shamelessly from David Brin's Uplift War). Not only
will this flush all the rebels out of the hills and concentrate the
populace in a few specific cities, but if you make the treatment
require numerous repeated dosages given over a period of months
the rebels won't be headed back into the hills anytime soon. Also,
you can do this and risk no troops by simply sending down robots
to administer the antidotes until after everyone is in those cities
where antidotes are being administered.
or
2) Send down many (as in at least tens of thousands) of small
cheap (lively slaved together) warbots. Each one has only two
directives:
Stun everyone carrying a weapon and then destroy the weapon
Kill anyone who attempt to harm a warbot
If you wish to be somewhat more draconian, have them simply kill
everyone carrying a weapon.
Define weapons to include not only projective weapons, & lasers,
but any form of explosive (detected using sniffers)...
You won't get every weapon this way, but organized resistance will
collapse.
Sure, after you have used such measures you will eventually have
to send down a new government and law enforcement personnel to
take charge of the planet, but only after all the fighting is over.
Such people will will be rulers of the conquered populace, rather
than soldiers who conquer a planet.
Compared to these options, the young men in the mud option
seems wasteful, foolish, and ultimately less humane (the last being
of likely consideration to both the Zhodani and possibly the Hivers).
Comments?
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 16:04:12 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Silent weapons...
In mail you write:
> At 02:21 AM 3/4/2000 PST, you wrote:
>
>>On the other hand, think of the effect on low-tech natives. Here's this
>>person or building that has been destroyed by something that looks a
>>bit like lightning, but unlike lightning is *absolutely straight*.
>>
>>Two guesses what *they* are gonna think!
>
> Leonard, I award you with the Legion of Evil Idea Generation, 1st Class,
> with Clusters.
>
> That just gave me a wicked idea for a M:0 scenario...
Just remember that the lines will come from the west or from the east
depending on the direction the ship is orbiting... They *won't* come
straight down.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 19:05:11 -0500
From: "Chauncey Smith"
Subject: Re: T4 and the maneuver rating
- -----Original Message-----
From: Douglas E. Berry
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: Saturday, March 04, 2000 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: T4 and the maneuver rating
>At 07:00 AM 3/4/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>>I got a copy of Imperial Squadrons and it calls for me to have some
numbers
>>I can't figure out how to calculate in the book. one of those is the
>>maneuver number, the power number and a thing called P on what is called
the
>>traveller star ship card. Can someone help me find the book that I should
be
>>looking in for these calculations?
>
>My ship designs were mangled by IG. The starship cards are a sick and
>twisted joke.
>
>I'll dig out my copy, and see if I still have the orginmal design specs
>somewhere. Might be a good project to redo those four ships this weekend.
My only question is it says that the Maneuver M number is a factor in alot
of the other equations and I have no clue where this number actually comes
from. this number I've even seen in the FFS2 spread sheet for ship combat.
but I'm even unable to find it in FFS2. So I really have no clue how space
combat was surpose to be done in that system I have most of the books and
looked in all the places I thought such information could be found. For
example I pulled out star ships and FFS2 and even the basic book and looked
in pocket empires to no avil.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 19:12:17 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: Errata for First Survey/Returning to the TML
Hi all,
I'm back again after an absence :) I was subsscribed under mmckeown67@hotmail
for a while
Is there a file with Errata for First Survey in a format other than Genie? I
know this publication is very bad...But I don't have Atlas of the Imperium
and would probably pay 100 dollars US for it on E-bay......A text file would
be preferable....
Thanks
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 00:26:41 GMT
From: Postmark Design Bureau
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
SD Mooney wrote:
> At 8:56 -0500 4/3/00, Ingo Heinscher wrote:
> >Now there is another question: Assume the 3I builds a Rift-crosser: A ship
> >with jump-1, but fuel capacitiy for eight jumps. (Should be practicable
> >with a 300 ton hull, I think.) Now let's look at the map of charted space:
> >Such a courier could make it from the Gushemege-near part of Reft sector
> >to the other side within perhaps 20 weeks (for an Xboat-like net of ships,
> >of course), whereas the regular Xboat way would need cruise around the
> >whole Great rift, thereby needing a total of about 30 to 40 weeks.
>
> From HG2;
>
> J-drive 1 9% hull volume
> M-Drive 1 7% hull volume
> Power Plant 1 between 1% (TL15) and 3% (TL12)
> Bridge 2% or 20 dT
> Fuel 80% (8 x J1)
>
> So you've reached about 100% volume with no living accommodation,
> cargo space, computer etc.
>
> You may be able do it but It's going to be a big ship...
>
> You can *just* do it at TL15 using QSDS 1.5 (T4) but the ship is very
> very primitive and cramped.
Um, you're reading the drive tech level table, not the % volume table,
however you also left out the power plant fuel and a 2% bridge only
applies to 1,000dT.
Tech Level 9 13 15
==== ==== ====
Jump drive 1 2% 2% 2%
Jump Fuel 8 80% 80% 80%
Manoeuvre 1 2% 2% 2%
Power Plant 1 3% 2% 1%
PP fuel 1 1% 1% 1%
==== ==== ====
Total 88% 87% 86%
Computer 1 1dT 1dT 1dT
Stateroom 4dT 4dT 4dT
Bridge 20dT 20dT 20dT
===== ===== =====
Total 209dT 193dT 179dT
Cost (MCr) 66.25 66.58 46.36
The TL9 design pushes the book 2 crew rules to the limit.
A size 2 ship needs a navigator, engineer and medic as well
as the pilot (the only crew needed for a size 1 ship.),
Giving each of these their own stateroom puts the size
up to 309dT/98.25MCr.
So I "exploited" the rules by using multi-skilled crew,
a pilot/navigator and an engineer/medic and then having
double occupancy in the stateroom.
FF&S2 makes this design easier, with fractional G drives and
no minimum bridge size.
However, there is an alternative:
Build a 118dT ship at TL13 with 16dT of each drive.
Then attaching drop tanks of 32, 40, 51, 65, 82, 104,
131, 166, 210dT plus 45dT of onboard fuel allows ELEVEN jumps.
(nb, this calculation assumes that the tank whose fuel is being
used does not count towards jump displacement volume.)
- --
Phil Kitching, http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Products Division
"Microwaving halfbaked ideas from across the galaxy"
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 19:50:18 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Silent firearms...
In a message dated 3/3/00 6:32:23 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:
<< I sucked at the grenade. The Drills kept yelling it was just like throwing
a baseball. That's a help, I hated baseball back then. >>
Doug; here's several questions for you since I never handled a grenade before:
1) Which is easier to throw; a stick grenade, or a "pineapple" style grenade?
2) Do you think Americans have an advantage with grenades (especially
pineapple ones) since we play a lot of games that involve throwing things
(like baseballs...:-) ) whereas Europeans play Soccer (football)? I ask this
one because my friend observed that in bar fights in Europe, the American
troops threw punches and the Europeans kicked you (though I question his
objectivety, and the story sounds too stereotyped...).
3) Since the English play Cricket, and their pitch is very different from a
baseball pitch or throw; is their grenade throwing different?
Ob Trav; I dunno; cultural differences?
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 16:51:20
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Using no ground troops (was Re: Silent firearms...
At 03:41 PM 3/4/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>Why? Perhaps for the Imperium, which clearly has a very limited
>understanding of sophont psychology. However, both the Hivers
>and the Zhodani know much more. Rather than sending anyone
>down to the planet until it is fully secure you could:
>
>Insert subliminal messages in any broadcast communications
And these broadcasts are coming from where?
>Tailor viruses to produce useful emotional states or remove
>undesirable emotional states from the populace (If anyone has
>nanotech they can simply rewrite the populace's loyalty, but this is
>well beyond normal TLs).
Weapon of mass destruction. Let me ask you, if you found out the
Russians/Chinese/Daughters of the American Revolution were controlling your
mind like that, what would your reaction be? *After* you got into the Moon
suit?
>Create propaganda (using their superior knowledge of sophont
>psychology) which actually works on a large percentage of the
>population.
Sorry, but unless we actually find a race that is utterly monolithic in
thought, propaganda isn't going to effect everyone.
>Or, for a more direct, immediate, & heavy-handed control:
>
>1) Infect *everyone* on the planet with a gradually (weeks to
>months) lethal disease or poison which you hold the antidote to
>(idea borrowed shamelessly from David Brin's Uplift War). Not only
>will this flush all the rebels out of the hills and concentrate the
>populace in a few specific cities, but if you make the treatment
>require numerous repeated dosages given over a period of months
>the rebels won't be headed back into the hills anytime soon. Also,
>you can do this and risk no troops by simply sending down robots
>to administer the antidotes until after everyone is in those cities
>where antidotes are being administered.
They surrender, the underground waits a few years, or decades, worms into
positions of trust and respect, gets the formula for the antidote, and
infects *your* homeworld with their variant of the virus. No cure.
Anyway, you still don't have the planet. And how do you punish the rebels
who remain? Sabotage can be very subtle.
Let's say you have captured Widgetron because of their excellent widgets.
We use your formula. No, deep in the bowels of the Gridlore Widget
Processing Plant, a technician hates you. His family didn't get the cure,
you see. So he randomly screws up the widgets. Since you want these widgets
bad enough to commit genocide, he knows that any damage will hurt you.
So what do you do Admiral? Command is screaming about ship losses due to
poor widgets. You have no assets on the ground to investigate, but the
locals assure you that everything is being done (ever see Casablanca?).
Do you exterminate thousands of workers that you need working to provide
you with widgets? Can you be sure that this act won't start more
rebellions? And who knows what's going on down there. This world has
doctors, you know. All they have to do is isolate the antidote, and your
threats suddenly become a bit hollow.
>2) Send down many (as in at least tens of thousands) of small
>cheap (lively slaved together) warbots. Each one has only two
>directives:
>
>Stun everyone carrying a weapon and then destroy the weapon
>
>Kill anyone who attempt to harm a warbot
So they ignore them. Nobody carries a weapon, everybody just goes along,
and you get a nice thank you note for reducing the local crime rate.
>If you wish to be somewhat more draconian, have them simply kill
>everyone carrying a weapon.
>Define weapons to include not only projective weapons, & lasers,
>but any form of explosive (detected using sniffers)...
so they robots will attack fuels stations? Car bombs, you know.
>You won't get every weapon this way, but organized resistance will
>collapse.
Why? You still don't have any real presence.
>Sure, after you have used such measures you will eventually have
>to send down a new government and law enforcement personnel to
>take charge of the planet, but only after all the fighting is over.
>Such people will will be rulers of the conquered populace, rather
>than soldiers who conquer a planet.
Hitler thought the fighting was over in 1940. Reprisals much worse than
you describe did nothing to stop resistance in both France and later
Russia. Even the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto, armed with a single *revolver*
took on the SS. Failed, but the act itself shows how hard it is to destroy
the human spirit.
>Compared to these options, the young men in the mud option
>seems wasteful, foolish, and ultimately less humane (the last being
>of likely consideration to both the Zhodani and possibly the Hivers).
The Zhos use warbots, but only as an aid to their regular troops. The
Hivers have a client species (the Ithklur) who *love* combat.
>Comments?
All of your options leaves wither a dead world or a population that hates
you. Consider the example of the Americans in Germany. The US entered
Germany as conquerors, pushing through a blasted countryside. We stripped
the local governments bare, forced military law onto the people, and
basically destroyed an entire way of life.
But that's where things changed. The individual interaction of GIs and
German civilians led to first a co-existence, and later a full acceptance
of the Amis into the local community. We all learned to see each other as
people, not the faceless enemy. Many GIs who served in the 70s and 80s
tell stories of sitting listening to German veterans telling war stories
from the other side, and learning that the enemy is a person.
It's easy to destroy.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
Embrace Fascism. The uniforms look cool
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 15:13:03
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
At 02:25 PM 3/4/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>Again, having such a rift would be far more beneficial if used as a sort of
>Maginot Line-- except that it would cost *nothing* to maintain.
The analogy that occured to me was the English Channel. A natural barrier
that drastically reduces any oppenent's mobility.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 17:00:30 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
On Sat, 04 Mar 2000 15:13:03, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> At 02:25 PM 3/4/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>
> >Again, having such a rift would be far more beneficial if used as a sort of
> >Maginot Line-- except that it would cost *nothing* to maintain.
>
> The analogy that occured to me was the English Channel. A natural barrier
> that drastically reduces any oppenent's mobility.
Hmmm... I initially thought "Maginot Line" since the "enemy" (works for
either Vilani or Vargr) *did* eventually work their way around the end.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Smash forehead on keyboard to continue...
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 16:59:22
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Silent firearms...
At 07:50 PM 3/4/2000 EST, you wrote:
>Doug; here's several questions for you since I never handled a grenade
before:
>
>1) Which is easier to throw; a stick grenade, or a "pineapple" style grenade?
Never threw a stick. The M-26 is called the baseball. The old pineapple
style was a fat cylinder.
>2) Do you think Americans have an advantage with grenades
From what I saw of our allies, the US Army seems to place a higher value on
the things. Probably yet another Vietnam after effect.
>3) Since the English play Cricket, and their pitch is very different from a
>baseball pitch or throw; is their grenade throwing different?
From what I've seen of cricket, I doubt that the cricket movement is used.
You want that grenade to arch away. I should be specific, they didn't want
me to pitch that grenade, they wanted me to throw it like I was making a
play from the outfield. A long, straight throw.
After two days of hand grenade training and qualification, we went to the
M-203 grenade launcher range, where I redeemed myself in the eyes of my
Drill Sergeants.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
I resent your implication that Americans are insensitive
to the culture of the unwashed, ignorant heathens that
populate the rest of the world. -Shawn Wilson, in a.f.m
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 16:12:51 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Self-sufficient planets
In mail you write:
> Incidentally, "self-sufficient planet" is probably illusion, as the
> component parts of the planetary economy may be seperated through
> selective orbital action. Kill every train, ship and aircraft and
> see how self-sufficient it is. People will still live, and you will
> not have "total control" but you will exercise a degree of control.
On the other hand, any medium population world at "average stellar" TLs
is *far* more self-sufficient (or can easily be so) than we are used to
thinking about.
For one thing, power is likely to be decentralized. Instead of a power
grid, houses and buildings will have their own fusion plants. And
places that started as a mid TL colony are going to be pretty
decentralized in other ways as well.
You can knock out *heavy* industry. You can "suppress" a lot of medium
and light industry. But short of carpet bombing inhabited areas, you
won't knock out all medium industry, or even *most* light industry.
And you *can't* "kill every ... aircraft" in a society where air rafts
are as common as SUVs! Not without resorting to a level of destruction
that cals for war crimes trials, and will make pacification of the
populace *real* iffy. You are talking about the equivalent of
destroying every *car* in a country.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 03:27:48 +0200
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jussi_Kenkkil=E4?=
Subject: Vs: Vs: Computing quess, Tech availlability
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Martin
To:
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2000 10:32 PM
Subject: Re: Vs: Computing quess, Tech availlability
>
>
> Jussi Kenkkilä wrote:
> >
> Why do you assume that all inventions are driven by the Military or even
> the Government? There are plenty of Labs that can and do R&D for
> strictly for commercial purposes.
>
That's simply the basic assumption since I maqde the table for use in Delta Green, where most of the really important inventions are really coming from ***** devices, that are being studied at certain secret government labs. In other campaigns the first steps are different, so that information on the invention spreads faster. For example if the invention was made in some non-military and non-commercial lab (some university etc) even the theory stage will be public. Megacorps will try to keep their secrets a bit longer.
- -J2K
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 20:17:27 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Silent firearms...
In a message dated 3/4/00 12:36:00 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz writes:
<< During the Paific War, the 3rd NZ division regulary used .55 Boyes
AT rifles to deal with Japanese snipers (he's behind a tree, never
mind). >>
They carried that heavy friggen' thing in the JUNGLE!!! Tough troopies...:-)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 20:26:27 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: Re: Silent firearms...
In the Gulf War the SEALS used the Barnett .50 rifle....
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 12:57:58 +1100
From: "Katharine Whitchurch"
Subject: Re: Crossing rifts and stuff
> From: "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)"
> Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> It would have to be a self-sufficient colony, because it would receive no
> merchant traffic. No merchant could afford four weeks out and four weeks
> back to make one round of trade!
>
Ummm, that depends on how high the profit margin is. To take an example, a
TL8 10 MW fission plant costs a megacredit and masses 140 tons - call it 15
displacement tons including bracing and stuff. It costs MCr 1.
Assume our colony can't build one, but they need one. If you assume they are
prepared to pay whatever it takes in colonial exports to get one, then it
will certainly be profitable to trade with them if they have anything that
the "core" worlds are prepared to accept in exchange - if they have 20 dtons
of stuff worth KCr100 a dton in the "core" worlds, then I guess they swap
that for the fission plant they cant build. Or learn to live without power.
From the point of view of the trader, they make a profit of a cool million,
in exchange for 2 months of their time.
> [snip]
> > Now there is another question: Assume the 3I builds a Rift-crosser: A
ship
> > with jump-1, but fuel capacitiy for eight jumps. (Should be practicable
> > with a 300 ton hull, I think.) Now let's look at the map of charted
space:
> > Such a courier could make it from the Gushemege-near part of Reft sector
> to
> > the other side within perhaps 20 weeks (for an Xboat-like net of ships,
of
> > course), whereas the regular Xboat way would need cruise around the
whole
> > Great rift, thereby needing a total of about 30 to 40 weeks.
> >
The way I get around this is by ruling that mis-jump chances from empty
hexes are much higher - call it 6% chance of destruction and 6% chance of
misjump. This allows military raiding (put tanker plus lotsa drop tanks in
empty hex 3 parsecs from target, jump fleet in, refuel, attack planet,
return to rally point), but stops stunts like this being pulled in civilian
life. This is good, because the "geography" of the Traveller universe in IMO
important.
Ian Whitchurch
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 21:05:53 -0500
From: Walt Smith
Subject: re: Self-sufficient planets
Leonard Erickson wrote:
>And you *can't* "kill every ... aircraft" in a society where air rafts
>are as common as SUVs! Not without resorting to a level of destruction
>that cals for war crimes trials, and will make pacification of the
>populace *real* iffy. You are talking about the equivalent of
>destroying every *car* in a country.
Air/Raft - Cr600000
Car - Cr10000?
Maybe "common as light aircraft", rather than "common as SUV's".
Unless the average citizen in a TL8+ society has a lot more capital
value in their posessions than the average citizen in a high TL7 society.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 21:10:02 -0500
From: Walt Smith
Subject: Anti-Tank Rifles (was RE: Silent firearms...)
Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
>During the Paific War, the 3rd NZ division regulary used .55 Boyes
>AT rifles to deal with Japanese snipers (he's behind a tree, never
>mind).
Good that they found a use for those things. At least on the European
front, the AT standing for "Anti-Tank" was, by 1940, optimistic to say
the least.
Not that you couldn't whack a truck, halftrack or the the occasional scout
car with them, but you'd be lucky to break a roadwheel on a panzer
III or better.
I don't know what the Japanese armor was like, though.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 18:12:13 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff
Subject: RE: Silent firearms...
That's Barrett :) Ask Doug about his opinion of the Barrett >>ouch!<<
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of
> Qstor@aol.com
> Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2000 5:26 PM
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: Re: Silent firearms...
>
>
> In the Gulf War the SEALS used the Barnett .50 rifle....
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2000
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Subj: Traveller-digest V1999 #2001
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Traveller-digest Sunday, March 5 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2001
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Silent firearms...
TNE/GDW question
Re: TNE/GDW question
A thought on Prices (was re: Self-sufficient planets)
Grenade Toss
Re: Trav Economics Gearheading Alert
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000
A thought on Prices
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000
Re: Underwater habitation
Re: Self-sufficient planets
re: Self-sufficient planets
Re: Using no ground troops
Your Name In Vilani
Re: Trav Economics Gearheading Alert
Re: Your Name In Vilani
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
RE: Silent firearms...
Re: A thought on Prices
Regina's government (Was: Another example)
Re: another example
Re: T4 and the maneuver rating (longish reply)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 21:23:08 -0500
From: Walt Smith
Subject: Re: Silent firearms...
Douglas E. Bery wrote:
>Take for example the Battle of Britain. Far from weakening British
>resolve, the Blitz hardened morale and determination.
British Ministry of Information, during the Blitz:
"Public morale is at a low ebb."
British government applies massive propaganda campaign to bolster
public morale by ensuring Britishers that everyone else has it just as
bad, but are bearing up well. Meanwhile, rumors circulate that the
royal family has fled to Canada, Scotland Yard sets up special "anti-
looting squad" (crime rate rose more than 60%), and the British
government is in fear because the ten thousand censors & snoopers
they have reading ordinary citizens mail are telling them that the
country is in a panic.
Without radar and the heroism of the RAF pilots (including their two
most successful, a Czech and a Pole), the Brits might very well have
buckled. The government worked very hard, and very successfully to
keep the Germans (and everyone else) from finding this out.
(From readings in Richard Shenkman's _Legends, Lies and Cherished
Myths of World History_)
ObTrav: This is what a government PR machine was able to do with
near-instant communications. What can they do when communications
take weeks?
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 21:02:38 -0500
From: "Chauncey Smith"
Subject: TNE/GDW question
Ok I'm still working on the TNE question every time I think I'm nearly
finished I find some other tidbit to pick up. This weekend I picked up
regency book 2 combat vehicles guide for the regency. It's kind a cool but
in the end there is an add for regency starships was that ever published?
and also what about armor 21?
I'm still hunting bootie.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 21:32:00 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: Re: TNE/GDW question
I don't think the starships bookl was published...there is a list of
published books for traveller on Mark Millers web site...
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 20:49:47 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: A thought on Prices (was re: Self-sufficient planets)
On 03/04/00 at 09:05 PM, Walt Smith said:
>Air/Raft - Cr600000
>Car - Cr10000?
A typical ground car is Cr4,000 according to CTCE1.
Personally, I'm of the opinion that Air/rafts are *way* over priced
at 600,000. When they are introduced at TL8/9, okay, but by TL12+
they should be coming down in price. Eventually, they would reach
some base price that they wouldn't decend below. It might be
something like...
TL KCr TL KCr
8 600 8 1200
9 300 9 600
10 150 or 10 300
11 75 11 150
12 40 12 75
13+ 40
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 22:00:19 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Grenade Toss
In a message dated 00-03-04 21:24:26 EST, you write:
<< From what I've seen of cricket, I doubt that the cricket movement is used.
You want that grenade to arch away. I should be specific, they didn't want
me to pitch that grenade, they wanted me to throw it like I was making a
play from the outfield. A long, straight throw. >>
My uncle (New Guinea 42-44, Philippines 44, training for Olympic 45) told me
throwing a grenade is a combination shotput and cather's peg. My dad's cousin
(82nd Airborne 44-45) said a stick grenade can be thrown farther, but are
smaller and had little or no frag effect. This is testimony 50+ years old,
and has litle or no relevance to current.future grenades.
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 10:40:06 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley"
Subject: Re: Trav Economics Gearheading Alert
> From: Ian Whitchurch
> The Grand Unified Traveller Trade Theory. And what you want to track are
> not the ships, but the shipments ...
I was looking at the ships because of the military aspects of the game. I
also wanted to stick some names and faces onto things, rather than dealing
with abstract numbers. The view of the universe I was contemplating was
that of a colony leader - say a Captain Sisko or Sheridan, rather than that
of the beancounter computers.
The idea I had was to physically locate some of the onworld economic
facilities too, kind of like World Tamers' Handbook, in order to basically
produce world maps that contain real information, and that change over
time. Again, this puts names and places into the game, rather than just
numbers.
Now of course you need the numbers to do this, and that means spreadsheets,
and all that kind of rigmarole, not to mention maps, and expanded system
generation, and so on.
This means that it really only works within a fairly small, closed, chunk
of space, not something huge like the Imperium. In fact, I wasn't even
really considering it in the OTU at all, though it could be fudged in
certain settings, like the New Era.
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 22:03:07 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000
In a message dated 00-03-04 21:24:26 EST, you write:
<< I don't know what the Japanese armor was like, though. >>
Some of it could be penetrated by M1s!!! Only in the Pacific theater was a
Sherman a heavy tank : )
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 21:59:52 -0500
From: Walt Smith
Subject: A thought on Prices
Eris Reddoch wrote:
>A typical ground car is Cr4,000 according to CTCE1.
>
>Personally, I'm of the opinion that Air/rafts are *way* over priced
>at 600,000. When they are introduced at TL8/9, okay, but by TL12+
>they should be coming down in price.
One thing I was finding out while tinkering with my copy the original
Striker rules: fusion-powered vehicles are *pricey*. That Cr200000
(minimum) power plant will take a while to come down in price.
I was trying to build an ATV for a play-by email campaign I'm in, one that
doesn't have an air-breathing engine. Batteries were weight and cost
prohibitive. No cheap air-breathing engine will work in most atmospheres
and lacks thereof. I don't know how they made a Cr60000 wheeled ATV
for the basic vehicles list, but I decided to buy it anyway and just
hide my attempts at making one due to the scary things they made me
think about.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 22:02:33 -0500
From: Walt Smith
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000
Loren wrote:
><< I don't know what the Japanese armor was like, though. >>
>
>Some of it could be penetrated by M1s!!! Only in the Pacific theater was a
>Sherman a heavy tank : )
Aw heck Loren, I can penetrate almost any tank ever built if you give me
an M1 to do it with.
Oh, wait, you must have meant the Rifle...
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 16:55:53 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Underwater habitation
In mail you write:
> All sources seem to leave permanent underwater habitation to modified
> humans and uplifted cetaceans, housing normal humans on islands or
> floating city-ships. TC5 came closest to what I was looking for, with
> plans for a research facility. The single most useful thing so far has
> been the observation that (apart from the reversed pressure gradient,
> and the presence of gravity) problems are similar for underwater and
> space habitats.
Actually, the pressure problems are *very* different. One of the big
problems with an underwater habitat of any size is that the pressure on
the hab changes *significantly* from floor to ceiling. Multi-story habs
are even worse.
This is because you get a 1 atm pressure change every 10 meters in
water at 1 g. So, if you do the "usual" and have the hab pressurized to
match outside pressure, you actually have around 1/3 atm *over*pressure
near the ceiling when the pressure matches at floor level. And you'll
need airlocks between floors. Elevators will have to move according to
decompression tables.
At more than a few tens of meters, you need special breathing mixtures
(usually heliox (helium/oxygen)). And between the pressure and the helium,
there are a *lot* of problems.
To start with, cooking gets very different. You *can't* steam things,
because at these pressures, *steam* is at temps unsafe for anything but
industrial use. This also means you can't rely on the boiling point of
water limiting the temperature of liquids while heating them.
Next, the helium makes air nearly as good a conductor of heat as water
is! This means that for comfort, room temp has to be quite close to
body temp, and you have to dress warmly anyway.
Humidity is a problem as well.
The end result is that it's hard to get comfortable in a deep sea hab.
Oh yeah, the helium makes talking a problem. It gets *far* worse than
the typical "Donald Duck" effect. Deep diving setups require electronic
gizmos so the divers can understand *each other*. Partly because a lot
of the frequencies of speech get shifted above normal hearing range.
So even if you *grew up* hearing helium-shifted speech, you would have
trouble understanding it.
> OK, given an established city on the continental shelf, here are some of
> the features I might expect (assuming a geologically stable region):
> * Curvy external architecture to cope with the pressure difference, e.g.
> domes connected by cylindrical tunnels. Perhaps we can extend the recent
> dome size discussion to cover this...
See the comments above, regarding pressure differences vs depth. A dome
of any size would have *huge* overpressures at the top if the pressure
at the base was enough to keep out water. A 100 meter diameter dome
would be 50 meters tall. Which means that at the peak, the outward
pressure on the dome would be 5 atm above the inward pressure of the
water!
Any leak in the upper part of the dome would flood the lower sections
*quickly, simply because the pressures would equalize so quickly. That
is, a leak at the top of the dome would *quickly* reduce the pressure
*throughout* the dome to that of the water at the top of the dome.
Which means that at the base of the dome, it'd now be 5 atm of pressure
*inwards*.
Now consider that 100 meters isn't enough room for more than a few
small buildings.
> * Oxygen from "cracked" water, with the hydrogen going back into power
> generation. Do any other gases get used up in respiration and need
> replacing? What's the best thing to do with the CO2 produced?
You can probably dissolve the CO2 in the surrounding water. Or run it
thru algae tanks to regenerate oxygen.
Keep in mind that even on the continental shelf, you'll be breathing
heliox. And you'll probably need to replace helium that gets lost
(dissolved in water, for example). At sufficient depth, you can
actually switch to a *hydrogen*/oxygen mix. It's safe because there's
too little oxygen in the mix for burning or for explosion.
Example: at 100 meters, the pressure is 10 atm, that's 150 psi. Only 3
psi of the mix will be oxygen. 3 psi out of 150 psi is only 2%. You
need more like 8% O2 before you can get a flame. Plenty of safety margin.
> * Water purification plants for drinking water.
> * Most food being locally-produced aquaculture, with kelp and algae (or
> their analogues) as staples and land-grown food being the biggest
> luxury.
You forgot fish, crabs, sea-slugs, etc.
> * Large tunnels connecting the city to the mainland for ease of travel.
Nope. You'd need *so* many airlocks, etc, that it makes no sense.
Especially when subs are more energy efficient than anything that'd run
in a tunnel (except maybe maglevel, but that's a bad idea in tunnels
that might leak).
> * Possibly a ban on any weapons which could accidentally breach the
> domes.
And all industrial processes too?
> * Probably drills to keep people aware of what they need to do if there
> is a breach.
Some, but if you keep things close to ambient pressure (rather than
surface pressure) leaks aren't any big deal. People will be used to
stepping into pools of water in the floor to get into the open water. A
small air bottle and a proper filter mask will enable you to swim
around for 30 minutes or more.
If you try keeping the habs at surface pressure, any leak will *kill*
anybody in the affected compartments unless the water is *really* shallow.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 21:44:36 -0500
From: "Chauncey Smith"
Subject: Re: Self-sufficient planets
- -----Original Message-----
From: Leonard Erickson
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: Saturday, March 04, 2000 8:07 PM
Subject: Self-sufficient planets
>In mail you write:
>
>> Incidentally, "self-sufficient planet" is probably illusion, as the
>> component parts of the planetary economy may be seperated through
>> selective orbital action. Kill every train, ship and aircraft and
>> see how self-sufficient it is. People will still live, and you will
>> not have "total control" but you will exercise a degree of control.
>
>On the other hand, any medium population world at "average stellar" TLs
>is *far* more self-sufficient (or can easily be so) than we are used to
>thinking about.
>
>For one thing, power is likely to be decentralized. Instead of a power
>grid, houses and buildings will have their own fusion plants. And
>places that started as a mid TL colony are going to be pretty
>decentralized in other ways as well.
>
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
I don't believe in the concept of the self-sufficient planet. It seems that
if there where a agro world and industrial worlds then the skill set to have
a fusion plant in ones house will not be in everyone position.
We've all at least tinkered with building star ships. In that we've find out
that you need a engineer to start and stop and run the blasted thing. Now
put this in a normal house whole situation.
Even though we all like the idea that we're bright ppl there are some that
ain't as bright. If running the power plant can be dumbed down for normal
home use and acceptance then it should be suitable for starships to have
some Joe walk over and check things out and walk away. The star ship should
be plug and play as well. Also what about the random factor of Children in
the house whole? If children can get to guns by accident can you picture a
child with a fusion reactor? I think this violates the Imperial rules of war
which clearly prohibit weapons that cause ecological damage in habitable
atmospheres.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 19:29:47 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: re: Self-sufficient planets
>From: Walt Smith
>Subject: re: Self-sufficient planets
...
>Air/Raft - Cr600000
>Car - Cr10000?
>
>Maybe "common as light aircraft", rather than "common as SUV's".
You can design grav vehicles a _lot_ cheaper than the B:3 A/R -
ISTR being horrified by a number of the T4 designs...
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 19:48:14 -0800
From: "Kelly St.Clair"
Subject: Re: Using no ground troops
> > 2) Send down many (as in at least tens of thousands) of small
> > cheap (lively slaved together) warbots. Each one has only two
> > directives:
> >
> > Stun everyone carrying a weapon and then destroy the weapon
> >
> > Kill anyone who attempt to harm a warbot
For some reason, this summons up the vision of your orbiting command ship
being destroyed by a fluke shot from a young boy in a borrowed starfighter,
causing all of the cheap warbots to shut down...
Sorry. It'll pass.
- --------------
Kelly St.Clair "You know, Brink, you've been acting funny ever since
kellys@efn.org you came back from the dead. (I can't believe I just
said that.)" -- Commander Boston Low, THE DIG
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 21:05:21 -0600
From: Rob Eaglestone
Subject: Your Name In Vilani
Ah, a lull in work. Here's something to occupy your time.
How to convolute your name into a Vilani name:
Line 1:
Write your first name,
followed by your last name backwards,
followed by your middle [or first] name (forwards).
Line 2:
Truncate if you think there are waaaay too many letters.
Line 3:
Convert diphthongs:
ae -> e ai -> ii ao -> uu au -> aa ay -> e
ea -> i ee -> ii ei -> e eo -> i eu -> u ey ->
ii
ia -> a ie -> e io -> o iu -> u
oa -> ua oe -> e oi -> i oo -> uu ou -> uu oy ->
i
ua -> ua ue -> u ui -> ii uo -> ua uy ->
ii
Line 4:
Replace 'ch' with 'sh'.
Replace 'c' with 'k'.
Replace 'f' with 'b'.
Replace 'h' with 'kh' (unless it's in an sh or gh)
Replace 'j' with 'ii'.
Replace 'l' with one of ('ag', 'ir', 'uk', 'aag', 'iir')
Replace 'o' with 'aa'.
Replace 'p' with 'm'.
Replace 'q' with 'k'.
Replace 's' with 'shir' or 'sir'.
Replace 't' with 'r'
Replace 'u', 'v', and 'w' with 'uu' or 'u'.
Replace 'x' with 'kash'.
Replace 'y' with 'ii'.
Line 5:
Replace any double consonant with ('ii', 'i', 'aa', or 'a') +
consonant
Separate consonants (except for kh, sh, and rk/rkh) with 'a', 'e',
'i', 'ii', 'uu', or 'aa'.
Reduce all diphthongs to one of (a, e, i, ii, uu, aa).
Line 6:
If you want, you can break up the word into a family + given name.
Or not.
EXAMPLE: Walter "Piracy" Smith
Step 1: walterhtimspiracy
Step 2: walterhtimspiracy
Step 3: walterhtimspiracy
Step 4: uuairrkhrimshirmirakii
Step 5: Uurikhaarimaashirimirakii
Step 6: Uurikhaarimaash Irimirakii
EXAMPLE: Colin "Downport" Michael
Step 1: colinleahcimdownport
Step 2: colinleahcimdownport
Step 3: colinlihcimdownport
Step 4: kaaaginagikhkimdaaunmaarr
Step 5: kaaginagikhukimadunamaar
Step 6: Kaaginagikhukima Dunamaar
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 21:13:30 -0600
From: Rob Eaglestone
Subject: Re: Trav Economics Gearheading Alert
Alan Bradley wrote:
>
> > From: Ian Whitchurch
> > The Grand Unified Traveller Trade Theory. And what you want to track are
> > not the ships, but the shipments ...
>
> Now of course you need the numbers to do this, and that means spreadsheets,
> and all that kind of rigmarole, not to mention maps, and expanded system
> generation, and so on.
>
> This means that it really only works within a fairly small, closed, chunk
> of space, not something huge like the Imperium. In fact, I wasn't even
> really considering it in the OTU at all, though it could be fudged in
> certain settings, like the New Era.
>
> Alan Bradley
> alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
WELL...
You could always fudge some good-guess rules by finding the
world(s) which are most likely to dominate trade with a
world and estimate the trade between them, like I do at
http://members.home.net/eaglestone/RJStarportNew.html
...Rob
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 23:47:00 -0500
From: "Josh W. Spencer"
Subject: Re: Your Name In Vilani
Rob:
So if I follow your rules correctly, my Vilani alias appears below. Close
enough! Now I wonder what my Zhodani alias is....:) :)
- --
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)
VILANI ALIAS: Iashir Rekiinikimas Uiagam
Ypsilanti, Michigan, North America, Terra
Sol Subsector, Solomani Rim Sector
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 21:13:36 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
>From: "James W. Lindsay"
>Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
...
>Such a colony would have to be more or less self sufficient. It wouldn't
>have been chosen otherwise. With only jump-1 vessels available, you're
>looking at a *minimum* of two months round trip (probably closer to three).
>*NO* jump-1 merchant is going to make a profit on that sort of run unless
>he is either heavily subsidized by the government or charges exorbitant prices.
What if people pay the exorbitant prices?
...
>You can only "claim" what you can control & protect. Since the Ziru Sirka
>navy was still jump-1, it just wouldn't be feasible to claim control over
>worlds they couldn't reach easily.
Taiwan :>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 21:04:55 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: RE: Silent firearms...
Douglas Berry wrote:
> After two days of hand grenade training and qualification, we went to the
> M-203 grenade launcher range, where I redeemed myself in the eyes of my
> Drill Sergeants.
This reminds me of an incident many years ago. My battalion was out on the
ranges doing the usual qualification and familiarization firing. I was OIC
of the LAW and M-203 range. Right before we were about to start, our
battalion commander drove up in his jeep. In the trailer were two *large*
cases of 40mm. "Here you go, Lieutenant. Have fun." Each grenadier that day
got 2 to 3 boxes to fire, which made them very happy, but still left a huge
pile in the afternoon. So I called all of my friends on the radio and told
them to come down to my firing point for some fun. A group of us sat there
for about three hours, gratuitously expending 40mm rounds. Hundreds of 40mm
rounds. Many hundreds of 40mm rounds. We got pretty good after a while. By
late afternoon we were all accuate enough to reliably hit all of the targets
on the range without using the sights.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 23:21:24 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: A thought on Prices
On 03/04/00 at 09:59 PM, Walt Smith said:
>Eris Reddoch wrote:
>>A typical ground car is Cr4,000 according to CTCE1.
>>
>>Personally, I'm of the opinion that Air/rafts are *way* over priced
>>at 600,000. When they are introduced at TL8/9, okay, but by TL12+
>>they should be coming down in price.
>One thing I was finding out while tinkering with my copy the original
>Striker rules: fusion-powered vehicles are *pricey*. That Cr200000
>(minimum) power plant will take a while to come down in price.
I'm a heretic, remember. I'm not required to play by original
Striker rules.
Fuel cells, GURPS power cells, some version of fusion+, and/or lower
priced fusion engines are all possible technologies for use in grav
vehicles...IMTU.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 06:50:55 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen
Subject: Regina's government (Was: Another example)
Terry Carlino writes:
>ObTrav: On a macro-scale the Imperium is autocratic. The Emperor is in
>charge. He designates Nobles to rule under him. However according to canon,
>in most cases the Imperial Nobles do not directly rule worlds. (Regina is an
>exception, not the norm.)
Um, where do you get the idea that Regina is ruled directly by Norris? I don't
recall seeing that anywhere. Well... _Behid the Claw_ claims that Regina is
Norris' personal fief, but that is presumably a mistake, since Norris used to
be a mere subsector duke, who don't have fiefs of that size, and Regina is
not the Emperor's to give away -- it was a fully-developed world by the time
it joined the Imperium in 250 and up until the Civil War only had a baron.
Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"...all at once I UNDERSTOOD just WHY it is that men FIGHT each other.
I suddenly saw the ANSWER to all this SENSELESS VIOLENCE that afflicts us!
But, like, I didn't write it down or anything and, like, y'know how it is -
next morning I had totally forgotten what it WAS, man."
"DR and Quinch get drafted" from _2000 AD_
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 07:18:30 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen
Subject: Re: another example
Black ICE writes:
>My character's wife (now played as another PC, to give me a reason to be
>involved in political maneuverings) was awarded Arkadia, in the Spinward
>Marches, as a fief. This world is listed as a Representative Democracy,
>with a population (according to Galactic 2.4) of 400 million in M:1100.
>When a fellow player asked if the Baroness Margaret planned to change the
>government, she replied "Hell no, unless the government isn't doing its
>job."
YTU is yours to do with as you want, of course, but IMO an Imperial noble
does not have the authority to interfere with the way his planet is run.
What he has the authority to do is enforce Imperial laws (where applicable)
and collect the Imperial taxes (most of which a mere noble would have to
pass on to his subsector duke, alas). That seems to me to be the whole
point of the setup. Of course, some Imperial nobles (like Delphine of Mora
for example) do rule their worlds, but that is wearing another hat. The
Duchess of Mora just happens to also be the Matriarch of Mora. Delphine rules
Mora subsector as Duchess of Mora but she rules Mora as its Matriarch. And
some Imperial nobles own entire planets, but that is because they have
bought the land, not because the Emperor gave it to them. YMMV.
Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
events based on the individual situation."
_76 Patrons_, p. 8
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 00:30:35 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: T4 and the maneuver rating (longish reply)
Chauncey Smith wrote:
>
<>
>
> My only question is it says that the Maneuver M number is a factor in alot
> of the other equations and I have no clue where this number actually comes
> from. this number I've even seen in the FFS2 spread sheet for ship combat.
> but I'm even unable to find it in FFS2. So I really have no clue how space
> combat was surpose to be done in that system I have most of the books and
> looked in all the places I thought such information could be found. For
> example I pulled out star ships and FFS2 and even the basic book and looked
> in pocket empires to no avail.
The following assumes that you want a space combat system for T4:
What scale combats are you planning to fight? The rules found in
Imperial Squadrons [IS] on pages 23-43, are designed for resolving
actions between fleets, each fleet consisting of one or more squadrons.
(Actually, they're the rules from the GDW game Fifth Frontier War [FFW],
with the addition of rules to determine the combat capabilities of
squadrons from different worlds at different TLs.) Naturally, you would
use these rules for large scale wars a la FFW. They won't help you much
for small scale, PC-level fights involving one or two ships per side.
Also, converting squadrons of specific ship designs to FFW-type stats is
not covered, so you'll have to play that by ear.
This leaves small combats (a couple of ships per side). As Doug Berry
pointed out, the starship cards on pages 10-11 of IS are f****d up like
a football bat. Ignore them. You can also ignore the P stat (which,
AFAICT, doesn't relate to anything in the game).
Note that the value for M mentioned on page 26 of IS has nothing to do
with the ship's Maneuver Rating, as listed on the accursed ship card.
It is a Universal Modifier, derived by adding the Tech Level modifier,
plus the Resources, Infrastructure, and Culture modifiers from the
tables on page 28. (You'll need to develop the Resources,
Infrastructure, and Culture ratings for various worlds IAW Pocket
Empires.)
Since there are no ship combat rules in IS (and no good rules in the
basic T4 book), I would recommend one of the following:
Mayday M4.1, which is a T4 conversion of the CT Mayday rules, with some
Battle Rider thrown in;
The Role-Playing Space Combat System V0.90 [RPSCS];
Bruce Alan Macintosh's Military Combat System [MCS].
(Of course, you _could_ just ignore the T4 revisionists entirely, and
use High Guard. Just make sure to use HG 2d [1980] edition, as it fixes
a number of errata.)
The first two rulesets (M4.1 and the RPSCS) are available as free
downloads (Adobe Acrobat .pdf files) from:
http://www.bits.org.uk/
(follow the Archives link)
I don't know of any place on-line from which to download the Military
Combat System. However, you can e-mail Bruce Alan Macintosh off-list,
and you should be able to get a copy that way (that's how I got my
copy). His address is bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net (he has been a
TML subscriber in the past, but I haven't seem him post recently.)
Note that the Akins FF&S2 spreadsheet, version 3.3, will produce a ship
card for use with MCS. You can download this outstanding ship design
tool (for Excel 5.0/95, Excel 97, or Quattro Pro 8) at:
http://www.truserve.com/%7Eigor/traveller/index.htm
(follow the Depot link)
You can also download the spreadsheets of AuricTech Shipyard designs
from my Web site (see sig file for URL), by following the Traveller link
at the bottom of the page.
Hope all this helps!
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2001
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Traveller-digest Sunday, March 5 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2002
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
Re: Imperial expansion to trailing
Re: Self-sufficient planets
Re: Imperial expansion to trailing
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
Sports and Traveller
fokitball (was re: Sports and Traveller)
Re: Your Name In Vilani
Re: A thought on Prices
Re: Self-sufficient planets
Re: Imperial expansion to trailing
Re: Imperial expansion to trailing
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 07:46:31 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
At 17:00 04.03.00 -0800, James W. Lindsay wrote:
>On Sat, 04 Mar 2000 15:13:03, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>
>> At 02:25 PM 3/4/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>>
>> >Again, having such a rift would be far more beneficial if used as a
sort of
>> >Maginot Line-- except that it would cost *nothing* to maintain.
>>
>> The analogy that occured to me was the English Channel. A natural barrier
>> that drastically reduces any oppenent's mobility.
>
>Hmmm... I initially thought "Maginot Line" since the "enemy" (works for
>either Vilani or Vargr) *did* eventually work their way around the end.
Well, it was rare, but the Channel _has_ been crossed in history.
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 07:58:15 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
At 21:13 04.03.00 -0800, Steven Hudson wrote:
>>From: "James W. Lindsay"
>>Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
>...
>>Such a colony would have to be more or less self sufficient. It wouldn't
>>have been chosen otherwise. With only jump-1 vessels available, you're
>>looking at a *minimum* of two months round trip (probably closer to three).
>>*NO* jump-1 merchant is going to make a profit on that sort of run unless
>>he is either heavily subsidized by the government or charges exorbitant
prices.
>
> What if people pay the exorbitant prices?
The colony wouldn't need to be self-sufficient. But rich, of course.
>...
>>You can only "claim" what you can control & protect. Since the Ziru Sirka
>>navy was still jump-1, it just wouldn't be feasible to claim control over
>>worlds they couldn't reach easily.
>
> Taiwan :>
Taiwan doesn't want to be part of the people's republic of China.Such a
Vilani world would probably join rather now than next hour.
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 06:50:07 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Imperial expansion to trailing
At 08:19 04.03.00, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>>Well, obviously the Vilani did _not_ expand the way at least I would have
>>expected. So if my players ask me, what could I tell them? Any suggestions?
[snip]
>As I see it, Vilani exploration would be very slow and methodical,
>examining each system in close detail, preparing reports on the commercial
>benefits and costs, and delivering them to pointy-haired bosses. This
>could explain why the Vilani were already at Barnard's Star but hadn't even
>visited Sol yet. It wasn't on the schedule.
Well, at least one of my players would certainly ask: But isn't that a bit
short-sighted? Maybe the next world isn't profitable, but two jumps farer,
there may be an Ancient site. Or some other extremely profitable world.
What it actually costs to find this out is crew's salary for a month or
two, the write offs for the ship for this time, and perhaps the initial
fuel for the first jump.
The strong conservatism among Vilani is one thing, but what you describe
above is a cartoon version of a Vilani, IMHO. Of course, such an
explanation might be popular among Solomani dwellers of the TU. :-)
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 07:55:45 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Self-sufficient planets
At 21:44 04.03.00 -0500, Chauncey Smith wrote:
>I don't believe in the concept of the self-sufficient planet.
I know one!
:-)
So there's another Roswell believer here?
>It seems that
>if there where a agro world and industrial worlds then the skill set to have
>a fusion plant in ones house will not be in everyone position.
It would probably be _much_more_expensive_ for the agro world to build that
plant. (TL provided, of course.) But possible. Both worlds (at TL6 or
above) can survive on their own, but the average standard of living will
drop then, true.
>We've all at least tinkered with building star ships. In that we've find out
>that you need a engineer to start and stop and run the blasted thing. Now
>put this in a normal house whole situation.
You mean, just like your heating plant?
>Even though we all like the idea that we're bright ppl there are some that
>ain't as bright. If running the power plant can be dumbed down for normal
>home use and acceptance then it should be suitable for starships to have
>some Joe walk over and check things out and walk away. The star ship should
>be plug and play as well. Also what about the random factor of Children in
>the house whole? If children can get to guns by accident can you picture a
>child with a fusion reactor? I think this violates the Imperial rules of war
>which clearly prohibit weapons that cause ecological damage in habitable
>atmospheres.
Hm. So what you say is: "Because the Imperium won't allow personal
household fusion plants, no world can be self-sufficient"?
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 07:15:17 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Imperial expansion to trailing
At 13:46 04.03.00 -0800, James W. Lindsay wrote:
>> >The only answer I can suggest is that the Third Imperium was simply
"tired"
>> >and happy with it's current size. The Rebellion showed how sensitive a
>> >star-spanning empire of 11,000 worlds is-- imagine trying to hold together
>> >12,000 worlds...
>>
>> :-)
>> Okay, but if _you_ were the Archduke of Gateway in the year, say, 300, and
>> you had some ressources at your hands to expand your power and wealth
>> within the Imperium just by expanding, wouldn't you do what you can to get
>> those other two sectors of your official domain into the empire?
>
>Not really-- not just for the sake of "expanding".
?
Could you elborate on that. Look at the map: The Domain of Gateway is
effectively just a sector of Imperial territory. Why not triple to
quadruple that area, just by sending in the Navy. At least to those worlds
who have No Allegiance (yet *g*).
Remeber: IOf you are not caring about certain minimum levels of living
standard for the people involved, you can just exploit those worlds.
Earlier or later, the MecaCorps and economical truth will solve the living
conditions problem. (After a few centuries.)
>I have no stellar data
>on that part of the Imperium so I can't comment on jump routes, world
>economics, etc.
>
>However, the Imperium first came in "contact" with the K'kree around the
>year 100... perhaps it was in their best interest *not* to expand towards a
>militant vegetarian culture that *exterminates* all local meat eaters? :)
:-)
Come on, there are at the lowest 2 and a half sectors not occupied by
neither the K'kree nor the Imperium. That's a vacuum of power. Since the
K'Kree have long sinc e decided not to expand any further (according to
GT:Alien Races2), there is only one power left to fill that space.
>> IMO it is more likely that Imperial expansion would have stopped just at
>> Terra in such a case. Those sectors beyond Solmani Rim are much farer away
>> from Sylea/Capital than Gateway, Crucis Margin and the like.
>
>OTOH, we don't know for sure exactly when the various worlds of the 1st
>Imperium were "absorbed", and it what order.
True. But it is likely to assume they used some economical mechanics to
determine the order of expansion, as well as some military considerations.
Which would lead "the closer the mass of worlds in the ZS are to each
other, the cheaper to trade with and the easier to defend are they".
>It is possible that the
>Vilani planned to expand further coreward and trailing, but their little
>confrontation with the hairless apes on Terra kinda put a dent in their
>plans.
But wasn't their empire several "thousands" of years old when the Vilani
encountered their Terran brothers and sisters?
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 07:45:13 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
At 14:25 04.03.00 -0800, James W. Lindsay wrote:
[snip]
>> But what is really cheaper: Imagine you have a colony at the edge of the
>> Ziru Sirka, somewhere in Corridor sector. The next free, unpossessed world
>> is, say, 4 parsecs away, with only deep space between your colony and it.
>Such a colony would have to be more or less self sufficient. It wouldn't
>have been chosen otherwise. With only jump-1 vessels available, you're
>looking at a *minimum* of two months round trip (probably closer to three).
>*NO* jump-1 merchant is going to make a profit on that sort of run unless
>he is either heavily subsidized by the government or charges exorbitant
>prices.
Which he could do, by the way. This could still be cheaper for the
"homeworld" of the colonies than waiting for some stock of those special
goods that can be produced eihthr onnthat new "j-4 colny" or at the orther
end of the empire, a years away. (I know, the latter won't require a single
ship to do this, but that won't change the cost of over a year of
transport. Which is better than a month, even if you have to send the "j-4"
ship more than one time due to less cargo space.
>> Now assume a portion of your population wants to found a new colony
>> somewhere out there, they don't care where, as long as it'll be their _own_
>> planet. What would they do? Take a liner to the other end of Vland sector
>> to settle another world along the Vilani Main (which is almost a year of
>> travel away!), or take a liner with extra fuel instead of cargo space to
>> settle a system four weeks away from you?
>
>Hard to settle a colony when you've sacrificed cargo space for fuel. If
>these colonists are truly serious about settling worlds beyond the jump-1
>routes, they already have an "independent" mindset about them. IOW, they
>would already accept the fact that they will see next to no off-world
>merchant traffic.
It could also be the decision of a planetary gouvernment. No "independent
mindset" required for those colonists, so.
>> Even if you take into account that cargo space will be more expensive on a
>> "4 jump-1 ship" than on a regular liner, it sounds to me fairly reasonable
>> that the colonists will use the latter option. And shortly thereafter, the
>> Ziru Sirka will claim the world for itself, at least during its initial
>> phase of expansion.
>
>You can only "claim" what you can control & protect. Since the Ziru Sirka
>navy was still jump-1, it just wouldn't be feasible to claim control over
>worlds they couldn't reach easily. Such a world would become a Client
>State, and not an actual member of the ZS-- at least not until further
>advancements in jump technology.
Send a tanker or two with the first fleet that claims the new colony. BTW:
Wouldn't the colonists _want_ to be a member ofthe ZS?
[Snip-3I Rift Corsser}
>First of all, a ship comprised of 80% fuel won't leave much room for
>anything, especially cargo space-- which would need to be filled with
>settlement equipment & supplies.
It would be some kind of Xboat, rue.
>Second, such an established colony would *obviously* be on its own, since
>it just wouldn't be economically feasible to trade back and forth over a
>distance of 20 parsecs with only jump-1 vessels.
Err... I was talking about the *3I* here, shortening the commo lanes. NOt
founding a new colony acroos the Great Rift. (But ask some Aslan about that.)
>There's also the economic costs of setting up such a far-fetched settlement
>attempt.
See above.
>> And of course, deep space bases: Building and maintaining bases at jump-4
>> distances throughout the Great Rift could be much cheaper than only using
>> planets. _Especially_ if you are willing to let civilian merchant craft use
>> these bases, too (for a fee, of course).
>
>Not nearly as "cheap" as you'd think. First off, you'd have to carry 80%
>fuel to make a round trip 4 parsec jump. This leaves *very* little room to
>carry cargo. You can't build a base out of vacuum and stellar dust :)
But you can use fuel tankers in deep space as refueling points. Send a
tanker at the future location of the base to refuel incoming j-4 cargo
ships, unload the cargo ships to build the base. Replace the tanker when
it's got only enough fuel left to come home itsself.
Sure that _is_ a tricky and _very_ expensive action. But it would probably
be worth the cost.
>> Plus, of course, the military aspect: Having deep space bases at strategic
>> points in deep space (where they are virtually unattackable, as long as the
>> enemy doesn't know their exact position) might be a major asset. (Look at
>> sthe Spinward Marches and remeber the Frontier Wars, for example.) And of
>> course there will be tenders, specifically built as "mobile deep space
>> bases" (which is probably cheaper, if I think it over...)
>
>Again, having such a rift would be far more beneficial if used as a sort of
>Maginot Line-- except that it would cost *nothing* to maintain.
A Maginot line (or English channel, if you prefer) right through your own
empire? Why?
If you are talking about guys like the Aslan:
But what hinders you to do both? Having _both_ the English channell _and_ a
chance to attack across a rift. (You won't allow your enemy to use those
bases, will you. You won't even tell them the location of these bases.They
will find it out only afew years later, when they can detect the jump
signatures there.)
>Now if you are talking about putting military supply bases in hexes on a
>map *within the ZS* that simply don't have star systems in them, you've got
>another problem: these are *military* bases and would be kept secret.
>Traders couldn't use them to hop from main to main.
Nor would it be profitable for them: From Main to Main, there are cheaper
ways to trasfer cargo than by two jumps-1.
>> Is it just my few books, or are these ideas not used in canon material as
>> much as they should be?
>
>It all boils down to economics-- governments usually choose the plan that
>is the cheapest :)
*sigh* If this was true...
And still: I think it _is_ cheaper to build such a rift crossing
infrastructure than sending every message across Corridor.
And it is always cheaper to have a good weapon that to have it not.
>Additionally, there is the Vilani mindset. Vilani are probably the most
>concervative-thinking individuals in known space :)
Conservative, yes. But not too short-sighted to build an interstellar empire.
I mean, we all know jokes about Vilani conservatism. But thy are _jokes_,
exaggerating what the Vilani actually are. IMO.
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 07:58:35 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
At 09:06 04.03.00, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>>That is one other thing I sometimes ask myself: If you have just jump-2 or
>>even only jump-1 technology, what hinders you to use several loads of fuel
>>and effectively make a jump-6 through deep space?
>
>Time and risk.
I understand what you mean with "time"
But "risk"?
>>But what is really cheaper: Imagine you have a colony at the edge of the
>>Ziru Sirka, somewhere in Corridor sector. The next free, unpossessed world
>>is, say, 4 parsecs away, with only deep space between your colony and it.
>>
>>Now assume a portion of your population wants to found a new colony
>>somewhere out there, they don't care where, as long as it'll be their _own_
>>planet. What would they do? Take a liner to the other end of Vland sector
>>to settle another world along the Vilani Main (which is almost a year of
>>travel away!), or take a liner with extra fuel instead of cargo space to
>>settle a system four weeks away from you?
>
>If the colonists are really dissatisfied Vilani, they will do what you
>suggest, but more traditional folk wouldn't dare dream of striking out on
>their own! They have their little slots in life, and if those trouble
>makers want to go out of the reach of normal culture, good riddance!
And if they are _not_ dissatisified Vilani, just wanting to leave an
over-populated world while not travelling over a year?
>>Even if you take into account that cargo space will be more expensive on a
>>"4 jump-1 ship" than on a regular liner, it sounds to me fairly reasonable
>>that the colonists will use the latter option. And shortly thereafter, the
>>Ziru Sirka will claim the world for itself, at least during its initial
>>phase of expansion.
>
>Cargo space will be non-existant. That's another 30% of the ship taken up
>by fuel.
There will be much less cargo space. But it will exist.
>>Now there is another question: Assume the
Please, all you guys out there, read it:
>>3I
Which is to say, the 3rd Imperium. (This is not towards you, Douglas. But
there are several postings whose authors obviously overlooked that little
acronym.)
>>builds a Rift-crosser: A ship
>>with jump-1, but fuel capacitiy for eight jumps. (Should be practicable
>>with a 300 ton hull, I think.) Now let's look at the map of charted space:
>>Such a courier could make it from the Gushemege-near part of Reft sector to
>>the other side within perhaps 20 weeks (for an Xboat-like net of ships, of
>>course), whereas the regular Xboat way would need cruise around the whole
>>Great rift, thereby needing a total of about 30 to 40 weeks.
>
>The Imperial Navy maintains a set of J-6 couriers that do cross the Rifts,
>much in the way you describe. The necessity of using 60% of your hull to
>feed one system cuts down on their utility as cargo ships though.
Okay, so it _is_ just some books that I don't have. Thank you.
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 01:23:15 -0600
From: Stormhound
Subject: Sports and Traveller
Black ICE wrote:
> As Doug Berry pointed out, the starship cards on pages 10-11 of IS are f****d
> up like
> a football bat.
What? Do you know nothing of sports in the 57th century? Oh, sure, gravball
may be the big money sport, but out in The Old Expanses sector there are still a
lot of die-hard fans of the ancient fokitbal teams.
Fokitbal, a direct linear descendant of football, baseball, and cricket (and
which, with a descent like that, is not only its own grandfather but a 3rd cousin
twice removed), is a very physically and mentally (especially for its more
enthusiastically liquored-up fans) demanding game. It was rediscovered in a
fragmented form, and painstakingly pieced together by General Abinerii Adaaguubad
during one of his visits to the reincorporated Terra system c. 612. From its
humble beginnings as a university sport, it has grown to great popularity, with
even young children setting up impromptu fokitbal fields anywhere there's a
reasonably flat space.
Among the game's more famous players is the legendary Geruugekh Rukhereman,
who was such a devastatingly skilled batsman that he would frequently drive
opposing canteeners to exhaustion trying to put him out. And let us not forget
Uireshiriim Khaard, a fielder without peer of the devilishly double-pointed
fokitbal with its unpredictable bounces. Great athletes, and deserving of the
accolades of their many fans.
You may scoff all you like, but I'll take a fokitbal bat any day.
(With a tip of the psi-helmet to Rob Eaglestone for his "Your name in Vilani"
post.)
- --
Stormhound
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 02:26:29 -0500
From: Walt Smith
Subject: fokitball (was re: Sports and Traveller)
Stormhound wrote:
> Among the game's more famous players is the legendary Geruugekh
>Rukhereman, who was such a devastatingly skilled batsman that he would
>frequently drive opposing canteeners to exhaustion trying to put him out.
>And let us not forget Uireshiriim Khaard, a fielder without peer of the
>devilishly double-pointed fokitbal with its unpredictable bounces. Great
>athletes, and deserving of the accolades of their many fans.
>
> You may scoff all you like, but I'll take a fokitbal bat any day.
>
>(With a tip of the psi-helmet to Rob Eaglestone for his "Your name in
>Vilani" post.)
Why do I have the strange suspicion that if I translate the two names
above, one will come out as "Calvin" and the other as "Hobbes"?
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 02:48:51 -0500
From: Steve Daniels
Subject: Re: Your Name In Vilani
Rob Eaglestone wrote:
> Ah, a lull in work. Here's something to occupy your time.
> How to convolute your name into a Vilani name:
Very cool! Now how do I pronounce:
Shiruu Shiragenad
or
Shiiruu Shiragenad
- -bloo
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 23:54:45 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: A thought on Prices
>From: Walt Smith
>Subject: A thought on Prices
...
>>Personally, I'm of the opinion that Air/rafts are *way* over priced
>>at 600,000. When they are introduced at TL8/9, okay, but by TL12+
>>they should be coming down in price.
>
>One thing I was finding out while tinkering with my copy the original
>Striker rules: fusion-powered vehicles are *pricey*. That Cr200000
>(minimum) power plant will take a while to come down in price.
You can deduce (i.e., scale up directly, ignoring enhanced scale
efficiencies) the stats of CT/Striker fuel cells from B:8. P/W is
almost the same, but volume and fuel use are real issues - for a
fighting vehicle, anyway. Probably allows decent A/R's - ISTR doing
one design with a TL 8 petrol engine :>
OTOH, cost is lower by something like 75%?
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 23:56:10 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Self-sufficient planets
>From: "Chauncey Smith"
>Subject: Re: Self-sufficient planets
...
>We've all at least tinkered with building star ships. In that we've find out
>that you need a engineer to start and stop and run the blasted thing. Now
>put this in a normal house whole situation.
Boats with diesel plants require engineers. What do you suggest as the
allocation for the typical SUV? :)
IAC, CT doesn't have the "household" fusion abomination - quite.
Scale efficiency with size gives you up to one HG2 EP (250/TL mod)
for a 14m^3 plant; at MCr ~3 that's going to be one per industrial
plant or population concentration that needs it.
OTOH, rather than laying cable to outliers, they may just have them
run fuel-cells off of hydrogen cracked by the fusion plants. Either
way you have an awfully decentralized and resilient energy supply by
comparison with our current systems.
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 23:53:43 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: Imperial expansion to trailing
On Sun, 05 Mar 2000 06:50:07 +0100, Ingo Heinscher wrote:
> At 08:19 04.03.00, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>
> >>Well, obviously the Vilani did _not_ expand the way at least I would have
> >>expected. So if my players ask me, what could I tell them? Any suggestions?
> [snip]
>
> >As I see it, Vilani exploration would be very slow and methodical,
> >examining each system in close detail, preparing reports on the commercial
> >benefits and costs, and delivering them to pointy-haired bosses. This
> >could explain why the Vilani were already at Barnard's Star but hadn't even
> >visited Sol yet. It wasn't on the schedule.
>
> Well, at least one of my players would certainly ask: But isn't that a bit
> short-sighted?
How can a "slow and methodical" examination of each start system
encountered be "short-sighted"?
To answer most of your questions you are going to need to track down one
book in particular that you apparently (?) don't own: "Vilani & Vargr". It
goes into great detail regarding this very mindset.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Smash forehead on keyboard to continue...
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 23:59:33 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: Imperial expansion to trailing
On Sun, 05 Mar 2000 07:15:17 +0100, Ingo Heinscher wrote:
> At 13:46 04.03.00 -0800, James W. Lindsay wrote:
>
> >> >The only answer I can suggest is that the Third Imperium was simply
> "tired"
> >> >and happy with it's current size. The Rebellion showed how sensitive a
> >> >star-spanning empire of 11,000 worlds is-- imagine trying to hold together
> >> >12,000 worlds...
> >>
> >> :-)
> >> Okay, but if _you_ were the Archduke of Gateway in the year, say, 300, and
> >> you had some ressources at your hands to expand your power and wealth
> >> within the Imperium just by expanding, wouldn't you do what you can to get
> >> those other two sectors of your official domain into the empire?
> >
> >Not really-- not just for the sake of "expanding".
>
> ?
> Could you elborate on that. Look at the map: The Domain of Gateway is
> effectively just a sector of Imperial territory.
Like I said, I don't have any stellar data on Gateway or any of the other
sectors trailing of the Domain of Deneb so I can't provide rebuttal to your
comment: "the Domain of Gateway is effectively just a sector of Imperial
territory".
> Why not triple to
> quadruple that area, just by sending in the Navy. At least to those worlds
> who have No Allegiance (yet *g*).
Like I said in my previous post, you need manpower to hold a claim over
those worlds. It costs *immense* amounts of money to conquer, and even
more to subjugate. Finally, there's the additional cost of managing all
those extra star systems.
Granted, you usually get more out of it that it costs you. However, most
of the other major star-faring races (Zhodani, Solomani, K'kree, and Hiver)
already admit that the sizes of their respective "empires" are just the
right size. Obviously they know something about managing interstellar
empires that we don't.
> >However, the Imperium first came in "contact" with the K'kree around the
> >year 100... perhaps it was in their best interest *not* to expand towards a
> >militant vegetarian culture that *exterminates* all local meat eaters? :)
>
> :-)
>
> Come on, there are at the lowest 2 and a half sectors not occupied by
> neither the K'kree nor the Imperium. That's a vacuum of power. Since the
> K'Kree have long sinc e decided not to expand any further (according to
> GT:Alien Races2), there is only one power left to fill that space.
They have decided not to expand spinward because the Imperium doesn't
currently pose a threat. If you reread it, you will find that this is only
temporary, and that the K'kree do honestly intend to someday declare war on
humaniti and push spinward. Why provoke an enemy like that just so that
the Imperial territorial map looks "pretty".
Besides, the region between these two interstellar powers canonically
contain worlds settled by both K'kree and the Imperials. These are Client
States, and not direct holdings of either power. Any encroachment into
this area might be considered hostile-- especially to the K'kree.
> >> IMO it is more likely that Imperial expansion would have stopped just at
> >> Terra in such a case. Those sectors beyond Solmani Rim are much farer away
> >> from Sylea/Capital than Gateway, Crucis Margin and the like.
> >
> >OTOH, we don't know for sure exactly when the various worlds of the 1st
> >Imperium were "absorbed", and it what order.
>
> True. But it is likely to assume they used some economical mechanics to
> determine the order of expansion, as well as some military considerations.
> Which would lead "the closer the mass of worlds in the ZS are to each
> other, the cheaper to trade with and the easier to defend are they".
You seem to think that this "mass of worlds" must be centered on Vland
itself. This is not the case, just like the capital of the USA isn't
located more centrally. I've already pointed out that the density of
systems increases as you travel towards Core sector. By your very words,
it would make sense that the 1st Imperium expanded the way it did.
> >It is possible that the
> >Vilani planned to expand further coreward and trailing, but their little
> >confrontation with the hairless apes on Terra kinda put a dent in their
> >plans.
>
> But wasn't their empire several "thousands" of years old when the Vilani
> encountered their Terran brothers and sisters?
Comparing the expansion of the 1st Imperium to that of the 3rd Imperium are
two entirely different concepts. One was based more on conquering, while
the other was based more on reclamation. It only makes sense that the
expansion after the Long Night follow along the established mains created
by the ZS.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Smash forehead on keyboard to continue...
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2002
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Traveller-digest Sunday, March 5 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2003
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Warship Dining Arrangements in the Spinward Marches?
Re: Using no ground troops
RE: Silent Weapons
Re: Warship Dining Arrangements in the Spinward Marches?
Re: Imperial expansion to trailing
Re: Warship Dining Arrangements in the Spinward Marches?
Re: Your Name In Vilani
Re: Your Name In Vilani
Re: Anti-Tank Rifles (was RE: Silent firearms...)
Re: Interstellar Democracies in YTU
Re: Imperial expansion to trailing
Re: Imperial expansion to trailing
Re: Imperial expansion to trailing
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 02:08:50 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Warship Dining Arrangements in the Spinward Marches?
Someone posted this link to the sci.military.naval newsgroup:
http://www.lookoutnewspaper.com/20000228_4.htm
Note the name of the warship in question....
Note also that most AuricTech warship designs have multiple galleys,
specifically intended to give this kind of flexibility. It would seem
that the RCN is ahead of its time (by 53 to 55 centuries, give or take a
bit).
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 00:36:10 -0800
From: sneadj@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: Using no ground troops
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
> >Insert subliminal messages in any broadcast communications
>
> And these broadcasts are coming from where?
Orbital ships. I'm assuming in all cases that the attacker holds
orbit and now wishes to conquer the planet below.
> >Tailor viruses to produce useful emotional states or remove
> >undesirable emotional states from the populace (If anyone has
> >nanotech they can simply rewrite the populace's loyalty, but this is
> >well beyond normal TLs).
>
> Weapon of mass destruction. Let me ask you, if you found out the
> Russians/Chinese/Daughters of the American Revolution were controlling
> your mind like that, what would your reaction be? *After* you got into
> the Moon suit?
If you knew to get into the moon suit. Also, that won't help 99.9%
of the population unless it is a world where most folks own their
own vacc suits.
> Anyway, you still don't have the planet. And how do you punish the
> rebels who remain? Sabotage can be very subtle.
Why is this any different whether you use ground troops or tailored
viruses &/or warbots? In either case, rebels will remain. In most
cases, you'll need to wait a generation or more before they die off
and their children cease to care. However, you now hold the
ground w/o using a single ground soldier. You will need police
forces, but you would also need them once the soldiers finished
their conquest.
> Let's say you have captured Widgetron because of their excellent
> widgets. We use your formula. No, deep in the bowels of the Gridlore
> Widget Processing Plant, a technician hates you. His family didn't get
> the cure, you see. So he randomly screws up the widgets. Since you
> want these widgets bad enough to commit genocide, he knows that any
> damage will hurt you.
>
> So what do you do Admiral? Command is screaming about ship losses due
> to poor widgets. You have no assets on the ground to investigate, but
> the locals assure you that everything is being done (ever see
> Casablanca?).
Once any form of conquest is over the conqueror moves in
administrators and police forces to take control, or convinces the
local government to work for them. The 2nd option is often a
foolish move. So, now you have personnel there. After the troops-
in-mud conquest is over, the vast majority of the soldiers will leave
since having your standing army permanently occupy the world is
going to be far from cheap.
That this point, your solution and mine result in the exact same
situation. The difference being that mine is cheaper, and results in
much less loss of life for the conquerors and very possibly for the
conquered.
> >2) Send down many (as in at least tens of thousands) of small
> >cheap (lively slaved together) warbots. Each one has only two
> >directives:
> >
> >Stun everyone carrying a weapon and then destroy the weapon
> >
> >Kill anyone who attempt to harm a warbot
>
> So they ignore them. Nobody carries a weapon, everybody just goes
> along, and you get a nice thank you note for reducing the local crime
> rate.
Now you send in the administrators and police personnel. For
extra security, each one has a robot hovering nearby programmed
to stun or kill anyone pointing a weapon (knives included in this
case) at the person or their personnel warbot. However, this will
serve to distance these folks from the conquered, so if you care
about such things you merely program the robots to ignore the
police and adminstrators (gene-coded radio ID bracelets combined
with periodic retina scans [which even today can be done at a
range of 3 meters) would serve to ID them fairly well]. Now, the
only folks with weapons on the ground are the conquerors. Simply
leave the robots in place and the world will be rather easy to rule.
Also, if you equip them with good sensors then they can also hunt
down and stun or kill any known rebels, dissidents or anyone else
you want out of circulation.
> >If you wish to be somewhat more draconian, have them simply kill
> >everyone carrying a weapon.
>
> >Define weapons to include not only projective weapons, & lasers, but
> >any form of explosive (detected using sniffers)...
>
> so they robots will attack fuels stations? Car bombs, you know.
These are the weapons of terrorists and not of soldiers. If all you
have left is terrorists you send most of the soldiers home since the
war are over.
> >You won't get every weapon this way, but organized resistance will
> >collapse.
>
> Why? You still don't have any real presence.
That's were the administrators and police come in.
> Hitler thought the fighting was over in 1940. Reprisals much worse
> than you describe did nothing to stop resistance in both France and
> later Russia. Even the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto, armed with a single
> *revolver* took on the SS. Failed, but the act itself shows how hard
> it is to destroy the human spirit.
They were fighting for their lives. Since you won't be committing
genocide (that's easy enough to do from orbit) the motivations will
be rather less extreme. If surrender means death then fighting to
the last person alive is a reasonable option. If this is not true then
it simply isn't
> >Comments?
>
> All of your options leaves wither a dead world or a population that
> hates you. Consider the example of the Americans in Germany. The US
> entered Germany as conquerors, pushing through a blasted countryside.
> We stripped the local governments bare, forced military law onto the
> people, and basically destroyed an entire way of life.
>
> But that's where things changed. The individual interaction of GIs and
> German civilians led to first a co-existence, and later a full
> acceptance of the Amis into the local community. We all learned to
> see each other as people, not the faceless enemy. Many GIs who served
> in the 70s and 80s tell stories of sitting listening to German
> veterans telling war stories from the other side, and learning that
> the enemy is a person.
As I said, to rule the conquered world you move in personnel, but
most of them are adminstrators and not soldiers. I see no reason
why they wouldn't be able to get along with the locals just as well
as the GIs. The key will be attitude. Whether you have soldiers or
administrators, if they treat themselves as the master race and see
everyone else as sub-human slaves then they won't be any too
popular. If they see the locals as other people who they can get to
know, they acceptance will be much greater. Given that both
options happened in WWII when everyone was using soldiers for
conquest, I can easily see that both options would be possible with
conquests involving no ground troops.
I'm not talking about pure rule from a distance, that is unlikely to
work w/o highly sophisticated mind control technology. However, I
see no need for any soldiers to be involved in the step going from
orbital conquest to control of the surface. Then, the conquerors
only send people onto the surface once it is controlled.
Comments?
- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 00:35:59 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: RE: Silent Weapons
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> > Heh. Well, we could be realistic and say 'lasers with non-nil
> penetration
> > cannot be used in atmosphere due to superheating the air they
> pass through',
> > but that's not much fun and isn't entirely true in any case (it
> depends on
> > how the beam is focused).
>
> Oh, they are *usable*. But the beam path sticks out like a sore thumb.
This has finally forced me to dig out and read my set of TNE rules.
Apparently TL9 lasers are IR, since their damage halves every 250 meters or
so, due to interaction with air. TL13 lasers do not significantly interact
with air, however.
Engineering SWAG:
According to the TNE book, a TL13 (or TL9)laser rifle puts out a pulse of
0.04 MJ. Let's suppose that this pulse lasts 1 microsecond. Then the pulse
volume is about 6e-3 m^3. We are putting 4e4 J into this volume, so we have
about 7e6 J/m^3. I don't think that this will produce the types of
plasma-generating effects which are envisioned. That's only about 7 J/cm^3.
I believe that man-portable laser weapon beams can not be seen, although
they are probably at a visible wavelength at TL13. The best atmospheric
window seems to be around 0.5 microns, which is visible.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 05:42:09 -0500
From: Steve Daniels
Subject: Re: Warship Dining Arrangements in the Spinward Marches?
Black ICE wrote:
[snip]
> Note also that most AuricTech warship designs have multiple galleys,
> specifically intended to give this kind of flexibility. It would seem
> that the RCN is ahead of its time (by 53 to 55 centuries, give or take a
> bit).
IIRC, the US subfleet has or perhaps only experimented
with similar ideas. 15 years ago when I was at an US
Naval Academy applicant summer seminar deal, I
seem to remember hearing that crews on the boomers
could have anything they wanted to eat at just about
any time they wanted (assuming it was there and they
weren't on watch).
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 00:26:26 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance"
Subject: Re: Imperial expansion to trailing
Date sent: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 06:50:07 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
> At 08:19 04.03.00, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> Well, at least one of my players would certainly ask: But isn't that a bit
> short-sighted? Maybe the next world isn't profitable, but two jumps farer,
> there may be an Ancient site. Or some other extremely profitable world.
> What it actually costs to find this out is crew's salary for a month or
> two, the write offs for the ship for this time, and perhaps the initial
> fuel for the first jump.
> The strong conservatism among Vilani is one thing, but what you describe
> above is a cartoon version of a Vilani, IMHO. Of course, such an
> explanation might be popular among Solomani dwellers of the TU. :-)
I think its valuable to examine Vilani expansion in some depth.
According to canon there were three 'waves' of Vilani expanision.
The first was a commercial expansion, building up a trading
empire, what would latter become the core of the Ziru Sirka. This
wave would focus on worlds that were easily accessable and that
could be exploited cheaply. In other words, the worlds on the Vilani
main. To spinward, this was stopped by the great rift. Its hard to
move past and there were more than plenty of worlds in the other
direction to colonise. Sure, I'd expect some survey work, but why
expand in an expensive direction when a much much cheaper one
exists?
Then there's the 'second' wave. This was Imperialism by suction.
The Vilani were expanding to absorb potential threats (defined as
any world with jump technology). No threats in that direction,
therefore no need to expand and possibly create them. And after
this wave the Vilani had a deliberate policy of not expanding except
to aborb a world with jump tech. Surveying beyond the border at
this point runs the risk of giving some minor race jump tech, which
would then mean an expensive campaign to absorb them.
Then there comes the 'third' wave. This was basically refugees
fleeing the collapse of the ZS. Here you might get some expansion
beyond the rift (and according to canon, there was). But its not
planned or organised. Its just various groups fleeing a collapsing
empire and while these worlds are Vilani, they were not part of the
ZS.
Andrew etc
Homepage http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/
Traveller http://www.downport.com/amv/
"What do you expect from a species whose females are
always in heat" Ko of the Ilui clan on Humans and honour
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 06:21:04 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz
Subject: Re: Warship Dining Arrangements in the Spinward Marches?
Black ICE wrote:
>
> Someone posted this link to the sci.military.naval newsgroup:
>
> http://www.lookoutnewspaper.com/20000228_4.htm
>
> Note the name of the warship in question....
>
Its namesake is, of course, the city in Saskatchewan. I wonder if that's
where the Traveller name came from.
- --
Erwin Fritz
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 06:28:23 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz
Subject: Re: Your Name In Vilani
Rob Eaglestone wrote:
>
> Ah, a lull in work. Here's something to occupy your time.
> How to convolute your name into a Vilani name:
>
Cool. Now, I'll just start signing cheques that way ...
Eranzarireb Ieakhin
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 07:59:59 -0600
From: Rob Eaglestone
Subject: Re: Your Name In Vilani
Steve Daniels wrote:
>
> Rob Eaglestone wrote:
>
> > Ah, a lull in work. Here's something to occupy your time.
> > How to convolute your name into a Vilani name:
>
> Very cool! Now how do I pronounce:
>
> Shiruu Shiragenad
> or
> Shiiruu Shiragenad
>
> -bloo
Of course, you pronounce it "Steve Daniels".
;)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 23:26:24 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley"
Subject: Re: Anti-Tank Rifles (was RE: Silent firearms...)
> From: Walt Smith
> Good that they found a use for those things. At least on the European
> front, the AT standing for "Anti-Tank" was, by 1940, optimistic to say
> the least.
>
> Not that you couldn't whack a truck, halftrack or the the occasional
scout
> car with them, but you'd be lucky to break a roadwheel on a panzer
> III or better.
>
> I don't know what the Japanese armor was like, though.
The Japanese armour was pretty trashy, although it was used well in the
Malaya campaign in '41-'42.
The Soviets were the people who found the real way to use AT rifles though
- - en masse. They seem to have had a bit of fun with them during Kursk.
Basically, if you have enough of them, you get the weak spots. Used in
small numbers, like everyone else did, they were, of course, pretty
useless.
There's one thing about the European front in 1940 though: a _lot_ of the
armour being used then was wildly obselete. The most common British tank
was the good old Vickers Mk VI light tank - two machine guns, no armour to
speak of, and not particularly fast either. The Germans were still using
plenty of Panzer Is and Panzer IIs. The French, Italians, Belgians and so
on all had plenty of junk tanks too.
Sure, everyone had some better stuff too, but even many of these were tin
cans by later standards. The few vehicles with decent armour were very
slow, like the British Infantry tanks.
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 00:08:23 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley"
Subject: Re: Interstellar Democracies in YTU
> From: Ingo Heinscher
> >Robespierre, and the other Terrorists were the people who did what was
> >necessary for the revolution to survive.
>
> Well, it was especially necessary for the *revolutionaries* to survive...
> other European power's gouvernments wantet them dead, naturally.
More to the point, the other European powers' governments wanted the
changes the revolutionaries had made reversed, and to have it demonstrated
that successful revolution was "impossible", and that History Had Ended.
That is the sense in which the revolution, rather than merely the
revolutionaries, could survive, or be destroyed. The other thing, of
course, is that "the revolutionaries" were not just some bunch of radical
lawyers in Paris, but were also millions and millions of peasants who had
seized land from their landlords, and millions of urban san-culottes, and
so on.
> >There _were_ abuses and foul-ups,
> >but on the whole the Terror was unavoidable. And the Terrorists killed
> >a whole bunch less people than the counter-revolutionaries did. But
> >that is almost always true.
>
> Well, this leads to some intersting questions. What worth is a democtracy
> if you are forced to kill the "freed" population? What we can learn from
> history here is IMHO that a revolution by force is not the best way to
> establish a functioning free society. (Look at Eastern Europe in the late
> 20th century... a good example for peaceful revolutions.)
I think very few people would disagree that peaceful change is better. The
problem is it isn't always an option. In fact, it's usually not an option,
if the changes are to be more than cosmetic.
The question really comes down to: are you willing to do what is necessary
to achieve your goals, or are you going to abandon your goals? Of course,
put crudely, that's an argument for "the ends justify the means". But that
is really only a problem when the means _undermine_ the ends, that is, when
what you are doing to "achieve your goals" (I'm quoting myself, of course),
is _not_ "what is necessary".
There is a time and a place for Blood and Iron, unfortunately.
> >he US
> >had to replace its original constitution about ten years after the
> >revolution, and it was one of the luckier cases.
>
> Really? Didn't know that. What's the story?
It's a long story, with several different possible interpretations.
Basically, the original constitution, the Articles of Confederation,
established a fairly loose government, with most powers still in the hands
of the colonial/state governments. This meant that the central government
couldn't actually do very much, which eventually led to various people
pushing for it's powers to be strengthened. The current constitution was
the result. (Well, the current constitution minus some fairly important
amendments, like the one banning slavery).
There will be further info on the net, if you want to look up the US
constitution. I may have made some errors even in the brief account I gave
up above.
> >Actually, there are relatively legitimate, if temporary cases for one
> >party states. (Incidentally, "single party governments" merely means
> >that they are not coalitions.) After the Civil War, the Republican
> >Party government placed serious constraints on the ability of the
> >Democrats to engage in political activity, at least in the South.
> >Effectively, this made the USA a one party state - the main opposition
> >was banned, or at least crippled, for several years
> >-_and_it_was_entirely_justified_ (IMHO, of course).
>
> :-)
> Okay, that was not the thing I was thinking about. As a German, I had
> some other "single party rule" in mind, you can imagine.... The U.S.
> Republicans never _forbade_ the Democratic Party, did they?
Not strictly. But if you cripple your opponents you get the same effect.
This is how Singapore and Malaysia work, btw. Formal democracy, but
extreme pressure to support the incumbent government. Like the Solomani
Confederation, if you read SolSec as functioning in a relatively subtle
way.
The general case for "legitimate" constraints on democratic systems are of
course wars, and particularly civil wars. In these situations it can be
necessary to prevent your opponents from being able to operate politically
within areas under your control. This can extend into the period after the
war in certain situations. But all of this is just recognising the facts
of nasty power politics, and not moralising about it.
> > As for being allowed to survive, well,
> >(a) the 3I deals with lots of societies (human and alien), including
> >some with quite odd, if not completely incomprehensible economies, and
>
> Well, that probably depends on the minor states in each GM's TU. The 3I
> in MTU deals with its client states, and to a certain degree with the
> other major powers. Vargr, Hivers, and Aslan seem to have market
> econmies. As do the Zhodani, at least to a certain degree. I assume that
> for most minor interstellar powers, this is also true.
"Vargr ... seem to have market economies"? Perhaps that should read "SOME
Vargr ... seem to have market economies". The essence of how the Vargr
operate is that they don't do it the same way in any two different places.
I will concede the Aslan, although I suspect that clan loyalties will
distort their markets fairly heavily. Having said that, you could read the
clans as being vague equivalents of 20C/21C Terran nations, with the
distortions they cause. As I said, I concede the Aslan.
The Hiver economy is a bit odd. The Gurvin certainly have a market
economy, and they are the economic specialists in the Hive Federation, just
as the Ithklur are the planetary warfare specialists, so the "Hiver"
economy pretty much is the Gurvin economy. But the Hivers themselves don't
use money within their own nests. "Hivers & Ithklur" (TNE) has some more
on this. The thought of unleashing Hiver manipulations on financial
markets is rather hair-raising.
> >If the client state behaves itself, it might be tolerated, particularly
> >if it's keeping the Aslan/Vargr/Solomani/Zhodani/K'kree etc out. The
> >problem would most likely be when some megacorp starts getting upset
> >that it isn't getting the red carpet being rolled out. Even then, the
> >megacorp might not be able to get the Imperium to intervene, and might
> >have to subvert the naughty state itself. That's a whole different
> >kettle of fish.
>
> Well, IMTU, the MecaCorps are owned by those who are in political power
> in the 3I. That would mean they are identical, so no problem for the
> MegaCorps to "make the Imperium do what they want". Of course, if the
> local Archduke/Dukes have no interest in the respectigve MegaCorp, this
> might be different, true.
I tend to go with this interpretation of the MegaCorps too, although I
assume a degree of factionalism within the nobility which doesn't always
make it automatic that they will play ball.
> >If someone else more worrying was bothering the Imperium at
> >the time, the new state might manage to get off the ground. And if it
> >is friendly enough to the Imperium, and lets the megacorps have their
> >way with it, then maybe it gets classified as "Mostly Harmless".
>
> Sure. It _is_ possible. But for my particular campaign sector(s), it is
> unprobable the 3I had been busy at the time of the "crusade" starting or
> the "revolution" taking place. It is in my own Glimmerdrift Reaches and
> Crucis Margin Sectors, where the Imperium has no other external affairs
> than just those minor states.
> So I think it is easier for the Imp to accept an already existing state
> when its borders reach the region.
Of course, it's a matter for your own judgement, based on your own campaign
setting, plus, and mostly, what you think is fun.
> >> Rather later, I fear. The Illuminati will surpress this as long as it
> >> doesn't fit in their plans. Believe me. I tried to program one.
> >
> >Well, it's pretty complex.
> [snip]
>
> Damn! I forgot the smiley here!
I assumed it. :-)
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 16:22:49 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Imperial expansion to trailing
At 00:26 06.03.00 +1300, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
>I think its valuable to examine Vilani expansion in some depth.
>According to canon there were three 'waves' of Vilani expanision.
>The first was a commercial expansion, building up a trading
>empire, what would latter become the core of the Ziru Sirka. This
>wave would focus on worlds that were easily accessable and that
>could be exploited cheaply. In other words, the worlds on the Vilani
>main. To spinward, this was stopped by the great rift. Its hard to
>move past and there were more than plenty of worlds in the other
>direction to colonise. Sure, I'd expect some survey work, but why
>expand in an expensive direction when a much much cheaper one
>exists?
Well, I just doubt that it _is_ cheaper for a planetary gouvernment (or a
Vilani megacorp) to send their colonists to the other end of Vilani-settled
space than expanding beyond the border that is right _here_.
On the other two waves, well, I think they make sense the way they are
described.
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 16:23:31 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Imperial expansion to trailing
At 23:53 04.03.00 -0800, James W. Lindsay wrote:
>> >>Well, obviously the Vilani did _not_ expand the way at least I would have
>> >>expected. So if my players ask me, what could I tell them? Any
suggestions?
>> [snip]
>>
>> >As I see it, Vilani exploration would be very slow and methodical,
>> >examining each system in close detail, preparing reports on the commercial
>> >benefits and costs, and delivering them to pointy-haired bosses. This
>> >could explain why the Vilani were already at Barnard's Star but hadn't
even
>> >visited Sol yet. It wasn't on the schedule.
>>
>> Well, at least one of my players would certainly ask: But isn't that a bit
>> short-sighted?
>
>How can a "slow and methodical" examination of each start system
>encountered be "short-sighted"?
Just the way I described: See only the star system one jump away, not
thinking of what might be behind it. After all, there is always the chance
of something very interesting lurking just two jumps further. It is logical
to assume that even the Vilani did some "first visit examination" before
sending in some "slow and methodical" team. And _if_ there was, an
earth-like, pardon, a Vland-like world out there, settlers would be
interested.
>To answer most of your questions you are going to need to track down one
>book in particular that you apparently (?) don't own: "Vilani & Vargr". It
>goes into great detail regarding this very mindset.
:-)
Actually, I do own it IIRC since 1992 or so. Just haven't read it for
long... must somehow have forgotten that it's here, right behind me... I'll
look it up and see what that can do. Thank you for the tip!
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 16:00:48 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Imperial expansion to trailing
At 23:59 04.03.00 -0800, James W. Lindsay wrote:
>> >> >The only answer I can suggest is that the Third Imperium was simply
>> "tired"
>> >> >and happy with it's current size. The Rebellion showed how sensitive a
>> >> >star-spanning empire of 11,000 worlds is-- imagine trying to hold
together
>> >> >12,000 worlds...
>> >>
>> >> :-)
>> >> Okay, but if _you_ were the Archduke of Gateway in the year, say,
300, and
>> >> you had some ressources at your hands to expand your power and wealth
>> >> within the Imperium just by expanding, wouldn't you do what you can
to get
>> >> those other two sectors of your official domain into the empire?
>> >
>> >Not really-- not just for the sake of "expanding".
>>
>> ?
>> Could you elborate on that. Look at the map: The Domain of Gateway is
>> effectively just a sector of Imperial territory.
>
>Like I said, I don't have any stellar data on Gateway or any of the other
>sectors trailing of the Domain of Deneb so I can't provide rebuttal to your
>comment: "the Domain of Gateway is effectively just a sector of Imperial
>territory".
I am referring to the GT Map Of Charted Space, with the Imperial borders on
it. (pages GT 6-7). The information provided there indicates that Ley
Sector is about to-third Imperial territory, and the Glimmerdrift Reaches
are about one-third. The rest of hese sectors, along with the other two of
the Domain of Gateway (Gateway and Crucis Margin due to both my old MT
sources and GT:Alien Races 2), are Na or possessed by various client states.
>> Why not triple to
>> quadruple that area, just by sending in the Navy. At least to those worlds
>> who have No Allegiance (yet *g*).
>
>Like I said in my previous post, you need manpower to hold a claim over
>those worlds. It costs *immense* amounts of money to conquer, and even
>more to subjugate. Finally, there's the additional cost of managing all
>those extra star systems.
>Granted, you usually get more out of it that it costs you. However, most
>of the other major star-faring races (Zhodani, Solomani, K'kree, and Hiver)
>already admit that the sizes of their respective "empires" are just the
>right size. Obviously they know something about managing interstellar
>empires that we don't.
:-)
But my example was at about 300 to perhaps 600 Imperial calendar. An in
those days, the Imperium wasn't as large as today. Obviously it expanded,
to spinward, for example. Why not to trailing?
[snip]
>> Come on, there are at the lowest 2 and a half sectors not occupied by
>> neither the K'kree nor the Imperium. That's a vacuum of power. Since the
>> K'Kree have long sinc e decided not to expand any further (according to
>> GT:Alien Races2), there is only one power left to fill that space.
>
>They have decided not to expand spinward because the Imperium doesn't
>currently pose a threat.
Actually, as that book states, they decided not to expand any further due
to the Hiver-K'Kree war. Which is some 3000 years ago, and they haven't
expanded since then.
>If you reread it, you will find that this is only
>temporary, and that the K'kree do honestly intend to someday declare war on
>humaniti and push spinward. Why provoke an enemy like that just so that
>the Imperial territorial map looks "pretty".
Because
a) The K'Kree have lower TL starships than the IN.
b) Nobody except the K'Kree believes that they are still on their crusade.
A pause of 3000 years can become a custom, I'd say.
c)The K'Kree are furious ground troopers, but build large ships without any
walls within the hulls, that is, their ships should have a shorter average
lifetime in battle than IN ships.
d)The Imperium didn't care for provoking the Zhoes, why care for a race
that is even farer away? (And the Zhos ar far more dangerous, having almost
as high TL in building starships, plus psionics, of course.)
>Besides, the region between these two interstellar powers canonically
>contain worlds settled by both K'kree and the Imperials. These are Client
>States, and not direct holdings of either power. Any encroachment into
>this area might be considered hostile-- especially to the K'kree.
That is a good point.
OTOH, there will be not only K'Kree client states there: Imperial ones as
well. If they joined the Imperium (be it voluntarily or not) one by one, I
don't really believe that K'Kree would start a war just for another ten or
twelve worlds this century(the close to the TTW the borders reach, the
slower). But it requires our Gateway Archduke dynasty to be more casual
with the expansion, true.
>> >> IMO it is more likely that Imperial expansion would have stopped just at
>> >> Terra in such a case. Those sectors beyond Solmani Rim are much farer
away
>> >> from Sylea/Capital than Gateway, Crucis Margin and the like.
>> >
>> >OTOH, we don't know for sure exactly when the various worlds of the 1st
>> >Imperium were "absorbed", and it what order.
>>
>> True. But it is likely to assume they used some economical mechanics to
>> determine the order of expansion, as well as some military considerations.
>> Which would lead "the closer the mass of worlds in the ZS are to each
>> other, the cheaper to trade with and the easier to defend are they".
>
>You seem to think that this "mass of worlds" must be centered on Vland
>itself. This is not the case, just like the capital of the USA isn't
>located more centrally. I've already pointed out that the density of
>systems increases as you travel towards Core sector. By your very words,
>it would make sense that the 1st Imperium expanded the way it did.
You did?
Anyway, at least you've done it here, and it's another good point. Thjough
one should mentiion thehigher TL of the young3I, allwoing faster expansion
into areas were the Vilani could not go as economically.
>> >It is possible that the
>> >Vilani planned to expand further coreward and trailing, but their little
>> >confrontation with the hairless apes on Terra kinda put a dent in their
>> >plans.
>>
>> But wasn't their empire several "thousands" of years old when the Vilani
>> encountered their Terran brothers and sisters?
>
>Comparing the expansion of the 1st Imperium to that of the 3rd Imperium are
>two entirely different concepts. One was based more on conquering, while
>the other was based more on reclamation. It only makes sense that the
>expansion after the Long Night follow along the established mains created
>by the ZS.
Well, on this I don't aggree. After all, against all what Cleon stated, the
3I wasn't anything but at first a way to expand the markets of the Sylean
megacorps. And there _are_ good markets in the Domain of Gateway. The fact
that Ley sector got its own Domain is proof for me that at least Artemus
(was it he?) planned to expand in that direction.
But something stopped that before it really began.
What was it?
>/dramatic voice from the off>
:-)
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2003
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Traveller-digest Sunday, March 5 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2004
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Underwater habitats
Re: Interstellar Democracies in YTU
Telemarketing
Re: Your Name In Vilani
MT Books for Sale
Re: TNE/GDW Question
re: Self-sufficient planets
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
re: Errata for First Survey/Returning to the TML
Re: T4 and the maneuver rating
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 10:57:31 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: Underwater habitats
In a message dated 3/4/00 2:28:14 PM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
> * Curvy external architecture to cope with the pressure difference, e.g.
> domes connected by cylindrical tunnels. Perhaps we can extend the recent
> dome size discussion to cover this...
Depends on depth and material used.
> * Oxygen from "cracked" water, with the hydrogen going back into power
> generation. Do any other gases get used up in respiration and need
> replacing? What's the best thing to do with the CO2 produced?
Scrubbers?
But that brings up another point I forgot previously. You might need special
atmospheres (like Oxygen/helium), this might just apply to those using suits
outside, but I'm not sure (actually I'd presume so).
> * Water purification plants for drinking water.
>
> * Most food being locally-produced aquaculture, with kelp and algae (or
> their analogues) as staples and land-grown food being the biggest
> luxury.
Depends on tech again. With the advent of fusion power, water becomes cheap
so a lot holticulture(?) is possible. Also if they have tunnels to the land
or surface, or grav tech than land food wouldn't be anymore rare than having
strawberries year-round at your local grocer (in other words if the
transportation is easy and cheap than land-grown food shouldn't be rare).
> * Large tunnels connecting the city to the mainland for ease of travel.
Probably under the seabed and this would depend on tech level a lot (as tech
goes up this might be less likely to be built, although if previously
constructed they might be covered over and not used anymore. Probably
forgotten, which might have adventure possibilities).
> * Possibly a ban on any weapons which could accidentally breach the
> domes.
Not to mention the penalty is probably 'Death by Airlock.' It reminds me
somewhat of Heinlein's 'The Moon is a harsh Mistress'
> * Probably drills to keep people aware of what they need to do if there
> is a breach.
Yeap, with instructions by every door. There would be bulkheads spaced
periodically with emergency areas located centrally (this is another area
where air mixes could be important, if you're deep you're going to have
problems with people caught 'outside' in a break if they are using standard
air mixes).
> Any additions or comments? Would you expect much subterranean
> development (i.e., below the sea bed)?
Yes. See previous.
Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 17:08:39 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Interstellar Democracies in YTU
At 00:08 06.03.00 +1000, Alan Bradley wrote:
>> From: Ingo Heinscher
>> >Robespierre, and the other Terrorists were the people who did what was
>> >necessary for the revolution to survive.
>>
>> Well, it was especially necessary for the *revolutionaries* to survive...
>> other European power's gouvernments wantet them dead, naturally.
>
>More to the point, the other European powers' governments wanted the
>changes the revolutionaries had made reversed, and to have it demonstrated
>that successful revolution was "impossible", and that History Had Ended.
>That is the sense in which the revolution, rather than merely the
>revolutionaries, could survive, or be destroyed. The other thing, of
>course, is that "the revolutionaries" were not just some bunch of radical
>lawyers in Paris, but were also millions and millions of peasants who had
>seized land from their landlords, and millions of urban sans-culottes, and
>so on.
Do you think that people like Robespierre and his Mountain party primarily
had the well-being of those peasants in mind when they started their
slaughter?
I'm not an expert of that period, but somehow I doubt it.
[snip]
>> Well, this leads to some intersting questions. What worth is a democtracy
>> if you are forced to kill the "freed" population? What we can learn from
>> history here is IMHO that a revolution by force is not the best way to
>> establish a functioning free society. (Look at Eastern Europe in the late
>> 20th century... a good example for peaceful revolutions.)
>
>I think very few people would disagree that peaceful change is better. The
>problem is it isn't always an option. In fact, it's usually not an option,
>if the changes are to be more than cosmetic.
Well, I admit, it looks harder to achieve than just killing the king (or,
to be ObTrav, the Emperor), but you have one great adavantage: If you are
smart, not even your worst enemy (that is, the Emperor...) can claim you to
be hostile or a terrorist. The point is that any revolution only makes
sense if the majority of people are dissatisfied for some reason and want
situation to improve for them. You don't need to kill the king. You just
have to crush his base of power, that is, the loyalty of his followers. If
his regime is maintained by fear, show that there is nothing to be feared.
If its maintained by the love of all people for the "great leader", though,
you have a problem. Good PR is required here.
Force might work or might not. Just as the non-violent approach.
;-) Look at the Ine Givar. Over century of hard terrorist's work and still
nothing achieved.
>The question really comes down to: are you willing to do what is necessary
>to achieve your goals, or are you going to abandon your goals? Of course,
>put crudely, that's an argument for "the ends justify the means". But that
>is really only a problem when the means _undermine_ the ends, that is, when
>what you are doing to "achieve your goals" (I'm quoting myself, of course),
>is _not_ "what is necessary".
>
>There is a time and a place for Blood and Iron, unfortunately.
I think the primary quetsion of any political move must be: "What _are_
your goals?" If it is, for example, preventing the Nazi army from
conquering Europe, well, that is one thing you won't discuss out of their
heads, I'd say, but shoot.
But if you are part of a relatively stable, say, interstellar state, and
just want to be the injustice and corruption to be abolished, PR is the
way, because if you kill some two hundred of the Imperium's elite, others
will follow them in their offices, celebrate them as martyrs and glorify
the entire system, as it survived this "develish attack by some terrorist
madmen".
Your goal is the change. Not the death of some representatives of that
system, but the establishment of another one. And all gouverning systems
are at last built on the people that are gouverned, that is primarily,
whose actions actually feed the system.(In an agricultural, that is the
peasants, in an industrial age society, it's the labourers, in onformation
age societies, it must be the knowledge workers, etc) It is they who must
be on your side, and then your change is _almost_ automatic. (There'll be
still a lot of work to do, of course, but killing or destruction shouldn't
be part of it.)
>> >he US
>> >had to replace its original constitution about ten years after the
>> >revolution, and it was one of the luckier cases.
>>
>> Really? Didn't know that. What's the story?
>
>It's a long story, with several different possible interpretations.
[snip]
>There will be further info on the net, if you want to look up the US
>constitution. I may have made some errors even in the brief account I gave
>up above.
It is interesting, because right the same thing (though much slower) is
just happening in the European Union. Once just a bundle of international
contracts, a real constitution is on the horizon.
>> > As for being allowed to survive, well,
>> >(a) the 3I deals with lots of societies (human and alien), including
>> >some with quite odd, if not completely incomprehensible economies, and
>>
>> Well, that probably depends on the minor states in each GM's TU. The 3I
>> in MTU deals with its client states, and to a certain degree with the
>> other major powers. Vargr, Hivers, and Aslan seem to have market
>> econmies. As do the Zhodani, at least to a certain degree. I assume that
>> for most minor interstellar powers, this is also true.
>
>"Vargr ... seem to have market economies"? Perhaps that should read "SOME
>Vargr ... seem to have market economies". The essence of how the Vargr
>operate is that they don't do it the same way in any two different places.
That's said about who makes the decisions in any Vargr society. Non-stable
gouvernments, and then a lot of them, require the individual Vargr to be
more flexible on the exchange of goods. Whatever you call that: It in fact
is a market economy.
>The Hiver economy is a bit odd. The Gurvin certainly have a market
>economy, and they are the economic specialists in the Hive Federation, just
>as the Ithklur are the planetary warfare specialists, so the "Hiver"
>economy pretty much is the Gurvin economy. But the Hivers themselves don't
>use money within their own nests. "Hivers & Ithklur" (TNE) has some more
>on this.
I don't own that, and from what I read about the "silly Era" (which is a
silly nickname, BTW), I won't buy it.
But as an interstellar empire, the Hivers have a market economy, haven't they?
>The thought of unleashing Hiver manipulations on financial
>markets is rather hair-raising.
Unless, of course, you are a broker with a good friend among the Hivers.
;-)
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 11:26:07 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Telemarketing
In a message dated 00-03-03 13:37:06 EST, you write:
<< As noted elsewhere, cell phones, pagers, and the like have their own
*seperate* exchanges. And given the *highly* negative reactions to
telemarketing calls to either, I'm sure that telemarketers just tell
their gear to skip those exchanges. >>
Maybe. Like I said, I've been out of it for three years (and I was only "in"
it for one shift -- I hate it when people do that to me, and I quit rather
than do it to someone else -- and this was after I had been on unemployment
for almost a year).
What I was doing was a "survey." Script is you identify yourself as a survey
taker for XXX company, and if they agree to participate, first question is
"Is the number part of a long distance calling program" (yes, go to question
two; no, survey is over, thankyouverymuchgoodbye), second question is "Who
provides the long distance service?' (if answer is [company deleted] survey
is over, any other answer proceed to list of b*llsh*t questions, last of
which is "What is the name in which this number is registered). It took me
once through the script to figure out that this is [company deleted]
gathering sucker numbers for a follow-up call, eliminating those who already
subscribe. It is people like this who give genuine survey takers a bad name.
In case you are wondering why they do this, telemarketing has a the higest
response rate of any form of advertising, believe it or not.
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 16:50:44 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: Your Name In Vilani
Well, here it goes.
Jeffreynosretepjeffrey
Jeffreynosretepjeffrey
Jeffreynosretepjeffrey
Iiebbreiinaashirreremiiebbreii
Ibuuriinaashaareremiibuurii
Ibuuriinaashaare Remiibuurii
I don't think I like Vilani. :-(
On Sat, 04 Mar 2000 21:05:21 -0600, Rob Eaglestone
wrote:
>Ah, a lull in work. Here's something to occupy your time.
>How to convolute your name into a Vilani name:
>
>Line 1:
> Write your first name,
> followed by your last name backwards,
> followed by your middle [or first] name (forwards).
>
>Line 2:
> Truncate if you think there are waaaay too many letters.
>
>Line 3:
> Convert diphthongs:
> ae -> e ai -> ii ao -> uu au -> aa ay -> e
> ea -> i ee -> ii ei -> e eo -> i eu -> u ey ->
>ii
> ia -> a ie -> e io -> o iu -> u
> oa -> ua oe -> e oi -> i oo -> uu ou -> uu oy ->
>i
> ua -> ua ue -> u ui -> ii uo -> ua uy ->
>ii
>
>Line 4:
> Replace 'ch' with 'sh'.
> Replace 'c' with 'k'.
> Replace 'f' with 'b'.
> Replace 'h' with 'kh' (unless it's in an sh or gh)
> Replace 'j' with 'ii'.
> Replace 'l' with one of ('ag', 'ir', 'uk', 'aag', 'iir')
> Replace 'o' with 'aa'.
> Replace 'p' with 'm'.
> Replace 'q' with 'k'.
> Replace 's' with 'shir' or 'sir'.
> Replace 't' with 'r'
> Replace 'u', 'v', and 'w' with 'uu' or 'u'.
> Replace 'x' with 'kash'.
> Replace 'y' with 'ii'.
>
>Line 5:
> Replace any double consonant with ('ii', 'i', 'aa', or 'a') +
>consonant
> Separate consonants (except for kh, sh, and rk/rkh) with 'a', 'e',
>'i', 'ii', 'uu', or 'aa'.
> Reduce all diphthongs to one of (a, e, i, ii, uu, aa).
>
>Line 6:
> If you want, you can break up the word into a family + given name.
> Or not.
>
>
>EXAMPLE: Walter "Piracy" Smith
>Step 1: walterhtimspiracy
>Step 2: walterhtimspiracy
>Step 3: walterhtimspiracy
>Step 4: uuairrkhrimshirmirakii
>Step 5: Uurikhaarimaashirimirakii
>Step 6: Uurikhaarimaash Irimirakii
>
>EXAMPLE: Colin "Downport" Michael
>Step 1: colinleahcimdownport
>Step 2: colinleahcimdownport
>Step 3: colinlihcimdownport
>Step 4: kaaaginagikhkimdaaunmaarr
>Step 5: kaaginagikhukimadunamaar
>Step 6: Kaaginagikhukima Dunamaar
================================================================================
- - Jeff Peterson j_pete@bellsouth.net
"There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven."
-Ecclesiastes 3:1
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
NOG #74 AirStar Nova 700
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 13:12:57 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: MT Books for Sale
A friend is selling off his MT collection:
>Books:
>
>Hard Times sourcebook ($10)
>Flaming Eye campaign sourcebook ($10)
>Starship Operator's Manual vol. I ($8)
>Knightfall Adventure ($8)
>Fighting Ships of the Shattered Imperium ($8)
>Assignment: Vigilante ($3)
>Rebellion Sourcebook ($10)
>101 Vehicles ($8)
>Astrogator's Guide to Diaspora Sector ($3)
>Survival Margin ($10)
>COACC ($8)
>Arrival Vengeance campaign ($5)
>Vilani & Vargr ($10)
>
>Buy more than two, get $1 off each... buy the lot and we'll talk!
>
>Magazines:
>
>Challenge #40-62, 55-57, 61, 63, 64, 68, 75 ($2 each)
>Traveller's Digest #20, #21 ($3 each)
>MegaTraveller Journal #1, #2 ($4 each)
>
>Buy more than two, get $.50 off each... buy the lot and we'll talk!
>
>Shipping is extra.
>
> Steve Boyko (sboyko@nbnet.nb.ca)
> www.geocities.com/~rupert_m
> -------------------- ICQ #882866 --------------------
Prices are USD, you pay the shipping. Please contact him directly.
--Michel
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
Michel R. Vaillancourt misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
ICQ # 31172292
"Reality Error in Progress....
....Do Not Adjust Your Penguin"
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
Cyberpunk: http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020
Traveller: http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller
AD&D: http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/adnd_eurania
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 12:15:35 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: TNE/GDW Question
In a message dated 00-03-05 01:25:08 EST, you write:
<< Ok I'm still working on the TNE question every time I think I'm nearly
finished I find some other tidbit to pick up. This weekend I picked up
regency book 2 combat vehicles guide for the regency. It's kind a cool but
in the end there is an add for regency starships was that ever published?
and also what about armor 21? >>
Neither one saw the light of day, I fear.
Loren Wiseman
GDW Emeritus
SJ Games Emigre
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 17:21:49 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: re: Self-sufficient planets
At 1:23 -0500 5/3/00, shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson) wrote:
> You can design grav vehicles a _lot_ cheaper than the B:3 A/R -
>ISTR being horrified by a number of the T4 designs...
CSC (T4 Bk 3) has notes to the effect that it was a deliberate design
decision to lower the cost of grav technology. It does have notes on
how tro increase the cost to bring it in line with CT.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 17:13:11 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
At 21:21 -0500 4/3/00, Postmark Design Bureau
wrote:
>Um, you're reading the drive tech level table, not the % volume table,
>however you also left out the power plant fuel and a 2% bridge only
>applies to 1,000dT.
Oops! But a 20dt bridge is the minimum below 1000 dt so the %
increases with smaller ships..
So it's feasible, but only just;-)
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 17:09:16 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: re: Errata for First Survey/Returning to the TML
At 21:21 -0500 4/3/00, Qstor@aol.com wrote:
>I'm back again after an absence :) I was subsscribed under mmckeown67@hotmail
>for a while
Welcome back!
>
>Is there a file with Errata for First Survey in a format other than Genie? I
>know this publication is very bad...But I don't have Atlas of the Imperium
>and would probably pay 100 dollars US for it on E-bay......A text file would
>be preferable....
The complete First Survey file is at the Missouri Archive, with the
Gov and Law Level data corrected.
I seem to recall it is a tab separated file so pretty much any
database or spreadsheet will load it?
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 17:07:14 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: T4 and the maneuver rating
At 21:21 -0500 4/3/00, "Chauncey Smith" wrote:
> So I really have no clue how space
>combat was surpose to be done in that system I have most of the books and
>looked in all the places I thought such information could be found. For
>example I pulled out star ships and FFS2 and even the basic book and looked
>in pocket empires to no avil.
The ship cards were due to be covered in the T4.1 (now T5 release).
Unfortunately, this is one of the parts not out in playtest form. The
BITS site has a working ship combat system based on QSDS/FFS2 called
MayDay M4.1 - it is a free download. There is also the RPSCS v0.9
there, but this is more focussed on roleplaying rather than fleet
battles.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 09:52:58 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
On Sun, 05 Mar 2000 07:45:13 +0100, Ingo Heinscher wrote:
> At 14:25 04.03.00 -0800, James W. Lindsay wrote:
>
> [snip]
> >> But what is really cheaper: Imagine you have a colony at the edge of the
> >> Ziru Sirka, somewhere in Corridor sector. The next free, unpossessed world
> >> is, say, 4 parsecs away, with only deep space between your colony and it.
>
> >Such a colony would have to be more or less self sufficient. It wouldn't
> >have been chosen otherwise. With only jump-1 vessels available, you're
> >looking at a *minimum* of two months round trip (probably closer to three).
> >*NO* jump-1 merchant is going to make a profit on that sort of run unless
> >he is either heavily subsidized by the government or charges exorbitant
> >prices.
>
> Which he could do, by the way. This could still be cheaper for the
> "homeworld" of the colonies than waiting for some stock of those special
> goods that can be produced eihthr onnthat new "j-4 colny" or at the orther
> end of the empire, a years away. (I know, the latter won't require a single
> ship to do this, but that won't change the cost of over a year of
> transport. Which is better than a month, even if you have to send the "j-4"
> ship more than one time due to less cargo space.
I never said it was impossible or unthinkable. What I *did* say was that
it would be much harder and *much* more expensive to settle worlds beyond
the reach of the jump-1 mains and maintain trade. Trade is what drives
economies and a lack of trade can kill them.
However, you seem to think that a "homeworld" would establish a colony
dozens of parsecs away "at the other end of the empire" (eg: rimward).
This would not be the case. It would be worlds at *that* end of the empire
that would create further settlements rimward.
If you take all the systems within 5 parsecs of Vland and *only* have
jump-1 technology, you will see that it would be far easier to expand
rimward than coreward. Enlarge the sphere to 10 parsecs and you'll still
see that the only real direction for expansion is rimward (and slightly
spinward). BTW, it took the Vilani over 300 years to establish what canon
calls a "10 parsec economic sphere".
> >> Now assume a portion of your population wants to found a new colony
> >> somewhere out there, they don't care where, as long as it'll be their _own_
> >> planet. What would they do? Take a liner to the other end of Vland sector
> >> to settle another world along the Vilani Main (which is almost a year of
> >> travel away!), or take a liner with extra fuel instead of cargo space to
> >> settle a system four weeks away from you?
> >
> >Hard to settle a colony when you've sacrificed cargo space for fuel. If
> >these colonists are truly serious about settling worlds beyond the jump-1
> >routes, they already have an "independent" mindset about them. IOW, they
> >would already accept the fact that they will see next to no off-world
> >merchant traffic.
>
> It could also be the decision of a planetary gouvernment. No "independent
> mindset" required for those colonists, so.
I'm not talking about being "independent" as in "moving away from home".
I'm talking about being unreliant on interstellar trade to any major degree
and relying on what you can produce on-planet.
If a world is going to need to import food, finished products, etc., those
citizens are going to have to be willing to spend *AT LEAST* four times the
price for shipping to obtain those goods over a distance of 4 parsecs!
Nobody is going to want to move to this colony if they know how much
imported goods are going to cost them. And how much might that be,
exactly?
Four 1 parsec jumps means four times as much fuel, four times as much for
salaries, four times as much for maintenance, four times as much per ton of
cargo shipping fees, etc. Now you've got to pay for another week or so of
unloading that cargo, plus the one month trip back. (Why? Think of it as
a long cab ride to the middle of nowhere. No cabbie is going to take you
up on that offer unless there's someone there willing to pay just as much
to get back, or you pay for the trip both ways. Since nobody on the return
end of this round trip is going to want to pay for a month long trip to get
goods that they can get from much closer to home, it is highly likely that
the colony will have to pay for this time as well.)
That's over two months, and even a 400t Subsidized Merchant (with three
fuel bladders installed-- reducing cargo capacity to only 80 tons) will
have to charge nearly Cr800,000 to cover *just* the monthly mortgage
payments and salaries over that time (using MT figures, since they seem to
remain closest to the other editions of the game). Fuel would cost extra
if skimming wasn't possible. Some of these costs could be offset by
filling up the staterooms with paying customers, but again, who is going to
want to move to a colony where the costs of imported goods are so high?
Here's the kicker though: a 400t Type R Subsidized Merchant would be
reduced to only 80 tons of cargo space if it needed to install three 40t
bladders to store the fuel for the three successive jump-1 jumps. If we do
the math, that boils down to nearly Cr10,000 to ship each single ton of
cargo.
Oh, and don't think a government is really going to jump in and subsidize
such a remote colony. They already lose money subsidizing trade on the
jump-1 mains. The use of the 400t merchant above was used because it is
common, possesses Jump-1, and utilizes fuel bladders to cross two-parsec
regions of space. I don't consider this to be a worse case scenario, but
it is far from a best case scenario either.
> >> Even if you take into account that cargo space will be more expensive on a
> >> "4 jump-1 ship" than on a regular liner, it sounds to me fairly reasonable
> >> that the colonists will use the latter option. And shortly thereafter, the
> >> Ziru Sirka will claim the world for itself, at least during its initial
> >> phase of expansion.
> >
> >You can only "claim" what you can control & protect. Since the Ziru Sirka
> >navy was still jump-1, it just wouldn't be feasible to claim control over
> >worlds they couldn't reach easily. Such a world would become a Client
> >State, and not an actual member of the ZS-- at least not until further
> >advancements in jump technology.
>
> Send a tanker or two with the first fleet that claims the new colony.
A tanker or two *per fleet*? Hardly. According to canon, early starships
are limited in size according to computer tech level. This is something
that the Vilani didn't really excel at, limiting them to a hull size of
4,000t with TL 9 computers and 10,000t at TL 10 (numbers taken from High
Guard). If we use the above Rift Tanker example (which isn't fair since it
was built at a much higher tech level), that leaves a 4,000t vessel only
240 tons for fuel for other vessels, and a 10,000t vessel only 600 tons.
These numbers are artificially high, since the Rift Tanker possessed no
maneuver drives or cargo space whatsoever. That certainly isn't a lot of
fuel to distribute throughout a fleet.
> BTW: Wouldn't the colonists _want_ to be a member ofthe ZS?
Not necessarily. One would raise the question: why do they want to move so
far away if they don't wish to remain part of the Ziru Sirka? Just because
they go out and claim a world outside the Imperial boarders does not mean
that the ZS is going to reach out and protect it.
Additionally, colonists often leave for new worlds because they don't like
the one their leaving.
> [Snip-3I Rift Corsser}
> >First of all, a ship comprised of 80% fuel won't leave much room for
> >anything, especially cargo space-- which would need to be filled with
> >settlement equipment & supplies.
>
> It would be some kind of Xboat, rue.
???
Actually, the ship would comprise of *more* than 80% fuel. "1 ton per
energy point is required per month of Maneuver", according to CT (the
numbers get even uglier under MT, IIRC). That would up it to about 83%.
As others have pointed out, the ship would have to be pretty big in order
to utilize that remaining 17% effectively. I designed a 1,000,000t Rift
Tanker once at TL 15 that was 88.3% fuel. It could make one jump-4, unload
60,000t of fuel, and jump again. 10% of the fuel was stored in ten 10,000t
dismountable fuel tanks, and by jettisoning all ten tanks the ship's mass
would be reduced and it would barely have enough fuel to make the second
jump (the tanks would remain behind-- and at over MCr10 each, this tactic
would be an expensive one). Normally, six of the tanks would be "drained"
(NOT dropped) and the remaining 40,000 tons of fuel was enough to augment
the remaining 360,000 tons of fuel in the ship's main fuel tanks for a
return jump-4 trip home. It had no maneuver drives.
> >Second, such an established colony would *obviously* be on its own, since
> >it just wouldn't be economically feasible to trade back and forth over a
> >distance of 20 parsecs with only jump-1 vessels.
>
> Err... I was talking about the *3I* here, shortening the commo lanes. NOt
> founding a new colony acroos the Great Rift. (But ask some Aslan about that.)
Sorry... must have missed that. Your initial post to the TML asked why the
Vilani never expanded coreward, etc. Since most of their expansion took
place during the Ziru Sirka using jump-1, I thought that we were still
talking about that era. FYI, the Vilani had Jump-1 for 3,815 years before
they developed Jump-2 (according to canon).
And no fair comparing Imperial colonial or military expansion to the
Aslan's ihatei :)
> >> And of course, deep space bases: Building and maintaining bases at jump-4
> >> distances throughout the Great Rift could be much cheaper than only using
> >> planets. _Especially_ if you are willing to let civilian merchant craft use
> >> these bases, too (for a fee, of course).
> >
> >Not nearly as "cheap" as you'd think. First off, you'd have to carry 80%
> >fuel to make a round trip 4 parsec jump. This leaves *very* little room to
> >carry cargo. You can't build a base out of vacuum and stellar dust :)
>
> But you can use fuel tankers in deep space as refueling points. Send a
> tanker at the future location of the base to refuel incoming j-4 cargo
> ships, unload the cargo ships to build the base. Replace the tanker when
> it's got only enough fuel left to come home itsself.
Believe me, I've experimented with this scenario. That's why I built my
1,000,000t Rift Tanker. But even a monstrosity of this size has only 6% of
it's mass dedicated to refueling other ships. It isn't a fun ship to serve
on either, with over 4,400 crew sleeping four to a stateroom, and with only
a smidgen of weaponry to defend itself from the enemy (which might consider
it a prime trophy) and 87 tons of space allocated for "additional crew
space". The bastard cost 351 *trillion* credits and utilized a dispersed
structure hull to bring costs down (which means that it must rely on other
ships to refuel it most of the time). It could also only stand on station
for 16 days before its reserve fuel was depleted.
> Sure that _is_ a tricky and _very_ expensive action. But it would probably
> be worth the cost.
But *not* if cheaper possibilities existed.
> >> Plus, of course, the military aspect: Having deep space bases at strategic
> >> points in deep space (where they are virtually unattackable, as long as the
> >> enemy doesn't know their exact position) might be a major asset. (Look at
> >> sthe Spinward Marches and remeber the Frontier Wars, for example.) And of
> >> course there will be tenders, specifically built as "mobile deep space
> >> bases" (which is probably cheaper, if I think it over...)
> >
> >Again, having such a rift would be far more beneficial if used as a sort of
> >Maginot Line-- except that it would cost *nothing* to maintain.
>
> A Maginot line (or English channel, if you prefer) right through your own
> empire? Why?
That's the question I asked you :) You asked why you wouldn't expand past
the Imperium's current boundaries. I responded by saying that most of the
Imperium's current boundaries border on the four Rifts and that they make
ideal defensive lines. I then asked why you'd want to expand beyond those.
> >Now if you are talking about putting military supply bases in hexes on a
> >map *within the ZS* that simply don't have star systems in them, you've got
> >another problem: these are *military* bases and would be kept secret.
> >Traders couldn't use them to hop from main to main.
>
> Nor would it be profitable for them: From Main to Main, there are cheaper
> ways to trasfer cargo than by two jumps-1.
Please explain.
> >> Is it just my few books, or are these ideas not used in canon material as
> >> much as they should be?
> >
> >It all boils down to economics-- governments usually choose the plan that
> >is the cheapest :)
>
> *sigh* If this was true...
> And still: I think it _is_ cheaper to build such a rift crossing
> infrastructure than sending every message across Corridor.
Such a "rift crossing infrastructure" does exist, but it is totally secret
and for military use only (communications, mostly).
> >Additionally, there is the Vilani mindset. Vilani are probably the most
> >concervative-thinking individuals in known space :)
>
> Conservative, yes. But not too short-sighted to build an interstellar empire.
> I mean, we all know jokes about Vilani conservatism. But thy are _jokes_,
> exaggerating what the Vilani actually are. IMO.
Well, if you don't want to accept the canon "conservatism" of the Vilani,
don't expect everything else canon that relies on that conservatism to make
sense. If you claim that the Vilani aren't as conservative as canon says
they are, then it is very possible that the Ziru Sirka boundaries would
have turned out differently. It's all relative :)
You are entitled to your opinion and I accept that. There's a little ditty
that you should familiarize yourself with here, however: "IMTU". It stands
for "In My Traveller Universe"-- with an emphasis on *My*. It is used to
denote that you are not against canon per se, but are expressing your
freedom to run your Traveller campaign the way you want it. You are also
saying that you acknowledge the fact that not everyone else has to agree
with the way that you run your campaign. In that last sentence of yours,
it would have been better if you had said "But IMTU they are _jokes_,
exaggerating what the Vilani actually are. IMO."
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Political panjandrums prologize pedantic paronomasia.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2004
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Traveller-digest Sunday, March 5 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2005
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Your Name In Vilani
Re: Grenade Toss
Re: Silent firearms...
Re: Silent firearms...
RE: Silent firearms...
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
Re: Your Name In Vilani
Re: Using no ground troops
Re: Warship Dining Arrangements in the Spinward Marches?
Re: Your Name In Vilani
Re: Your Name In Vilani
Re: Your Name In Vilani
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
Re: Interstellar Democracies in YTU
Re: Telemarketing
Re: Silent weapons...
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000
Re: Underwater habitation
Prices of Grav Vehicles
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 09:53:00 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: Your Name In Vilani
On Sat, 04 Mar 2000 21:05:21 -0600, Rob Eaglestone wrote:
> Ah, a lull in work. Here's something to occupy your time.
> How to convolute your name into a Vilani name:
>
> Line 1:
> Write your first name,
> followed by your last name backwards,
> followed by your middle [or first] name (forwards).
jamesyasdnilwarren
> Line 2:
> Truncate if you think there are waaaay too many letters.
Looks fine to me.
> Line 3:
> Convert diphthongs:
> ae -> e ai -> ii ao -> uu au -> aa ay -> e
> ea -> i ee -> ii ei -> e eo -> i eu -> u ey ->
> ii
> ia -> a ie -> e io -> o iu -> u
> oa -> ua oe -> e oi -> i oo -> uu ou -> uu oy ->
> i
> ua -> ua ue -> u ui -> ii uo -> ua uy ->
> ii
jamesyasdnilwarren (unchanged)
Is "ya" a dipthong?
> Line 4:
> Replace 'ch' with 'sh'.
> Replace 'c' with 'k'.
> Replace 'f' with 'b'.
> Replace 'h' with 'kh' (unless it's in an sh or gh)
> Replace 'j' with 'ii'.
> Replace 'l' with one of ('ag', 'ir', 'uk', 'aag', 'iir')
> Replace 'o' with 'aa'.
> Replace 'p' with 'm'.
> Replace 'q' with 'k'.
> Replace 's' with 'shir' or 'sir'.
> Replace 't' with 'r'
> Replace 'u', 'v', and 'w' with 'uu' or 'u'.
> Replace 'x' with 'kash'.
> Replace 'y' with 'ii'.
Assuming that "ya" is not a dipthong:
iiamesiriiashirdniaguuarren
^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^
> Line 5:
> Replace any double consonant with ('ii', 'i', 'aa', or 'a') +
> consonant
iiamesiriiashirdniaguuaaaen
^^
> Separate consonants (except for kh, sh, and rk/rkh) with 'a', 'e',
> 'i', 'ii', 'uu', or 'aa'.
iiamesiriiashiradeniaguuaaaen
^ ^
> Reduce all diphthongs to one of (a, e, i, ii, uu, aa).
This one needs more explaining. Out of the last seven characters above,
six of them are vowels-- all in a row! Presuming that I can convert these
six down into three dipthongs using the conversion table in line #3, and
over and over into just one:
iamesiriashiradenaiguuaaen
I could probably shorten that up even more:
iamesiriashiradenaiguaen
I probably screwed up here.
> Line 6:
> If you want, you can break up the word into a family + given name.
> Or not.
Iamesiriashira Denaaiguaen
Not surprisingly, this post made my spell checker throw a hissy fit :)
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Political panjandrums prologize pedantic paronomasia.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 09:44:34
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Grenade Toss
At 10:00 PM 3/4/2000 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 00-03-04 21:24:26 EST, you write:
>My uncle (New Guinea 42-44, Philippines 44, training for Olympic 45) told me
>throwing a grenade is a combination shotput and cather's peg. My dad's
>cousin (82nd Airborne 44-45) said a stick grenade can be thrown farther, but
>are smaller and had little or no frag effect. This is testimony 50+ years
>old, and has litle or no relevance to current.future grenades.
Modern grenades are lighter and easier to throw than the WWII models. The
stick grenades can be thrown farther, but are heavier to carry, reducing
the number available to the troops.
I had the occasion once to "cook off" a live grenade during training at NTC
in bunker clearing. This involves sneaking up to the firing slit, pulling
the pin on the grenade, letting the spoon fly, the holding it for about
three seconds before stuffing it into the slit. The idea is that the bad
guys can't pick up your grenade and throw it back out.
Any of you astronomy types who believe the universe is expanded take note:
When you are holding 1/4 of high explosive wrapped by notched steel wire
and a burning fuse, the entire universe shrinks to that one hand. The
*longest* three seconds you will ever live through.
Oddly, during one of my ACQ playtests, one guy threw a grenade. One of the
combatants on the other side immediately grabbed it and threw it back. Yet
another combatant still had enough AP to pick up the grenade a second time
and return it to it's intended destination. By this point, everybody was
out of AP. *BOOM*
- --
Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is that I am now a
perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague here is rapidly running out of
limbs!" - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 09:50:22
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Silent firearms...
At 08:26 PM 3/4/2000 EST, you wrote:
>In the Gulf War the SEALS used the Barnett .50 rifle....
They have my sympathies.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 09:52:25
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Silent firearms...
At 09:23 PM 3/4/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>ObTrav: This is what a government PR machine was able to do with
>near-instant communications. What can they do when communications
>take weeks?
The faked message.
"According to our latest information, Jewell continuers to resit the foe
heroically!"
The "latest" is four months old, and nobody has heard from Jewell since.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 09:53:32
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: RE: Silent firearms...
At 09:04 PM 3/4/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>A group of us sat there
>for about three hours, gratuitously expending 40mm rounds. Hundreds of 40mm
>rounds. Many hundreds of 40mm rounds. We got pretty good after a while. By
>late afternoon we were all accuate enough to reliably hit all of the targets
>on the range without using the sights.
Aww, MAN!! Why wasn't *I* there?
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"Some days, you just can't get rid of a bomb!"
-Adam West, as Batman
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 09:57:28
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
At 09:13 PM 3/4/2000 -0800, you wrote:
> What if people pay the exorbitant prices?
You end up with a really screwed up economy.
>>You can only "claim" what you can control & protect. Since the Ziru Sirka
>>navy was still jump-1, it just wouldn't be feasible to claim control over
>>worlds they couldn't reach easily.
>
> Taiwan :>
The PRC's claim to Taiwan has never been taken seriously by anyone. It
actually is fairly good example.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 11:14:01 -0800
From: Kristian Miller
Subject: Re: Your Name In Vilani
Rob Eaglestone wrote:
> Line 1:
> Write your first name,
> followed by your last name backwards,
> followed by your middle [or first] name (forwards).
Kristianrellimpaulmartin
> Line 2: Truncate if you think there are waaaay too many letters.
Naa--I've had to live with a long name for a while...
> Line 3: Convert diphthongs:
kristanrellimpaalmartin
> Line 4: Replace 'ch' with 'sh'.
...
krishiranreiririmmaalmarrin
> Line 5:
> Replace any double consonant with ('ii', 'i', 'aa', or 'a') + consonant
krishiranreiririimaalmaarin
> Separate consonants (except for kh, sh, and rk/rkh) with 'a', 'e', 'i', 'ii', 'uu', or 'aa'.
karishiranareiririimaalamaarin
> Reduce all diphthongs to one of (a, e, i, ii, uu, aa).
karishiranariiririimaalamaarin
> Line 6: If you want, you can break up the word into a family + given name.
Karishira Nariiririimaalamaarin
I think...
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 11:16:59 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Using no ground troops
>From: sneadj@mindspring.com
>Subject: Re: Using no ground troops
...
>Why is this any different whether you use ground troops or tailored
>viruses &/or warbots? In either case, rebels will remain. In most
>cases, you'll need to wait a generation or more before they die off
>and their children cease to care. However, you now hold the
What if the schools (& society...) teach hatred of The Enemy? Or are
the warbots programmed to liquidate unhelpful educators? students? Not
all cultures are indoctrinated with fifteen-second attention spans.
...
>Now you send in the administrators and police personnel. For
>extra security, each one has a robot hovering nearby programmed
>to stun or kill anyone pointing a weapon (knives included in this
>case) at the person or their personnel warbot. However, this will
...
>only folks with weapons on the ground are the conquerors. Simply
>leave the robots in place and the world will be rather easy to rule.
Basically, you're claiming that using warbots instead of troops will
serve to avoid conflict, and the `bots serve as troops too. This is a
workable theory, _if the locals aren't willing to fight_. And, frankly,
they probably are, _because they know that you aren't_.
>Also, if you equip them with good sensors then they can also hunt
>down and stun or kill any known rebels, dissidents or anyone else
>you want out of circulation.
By this time they're probably too busy having good fun with cheap
anti-robot-missiles, or even enemy AR-`bots. Of course, you can "secure"
ground behind you, but whether the mop-up groups are human or robotic
doesn't change much, except that the sophonts are better at discriminating
between targets. If your military police for anti-partisan suppression are
going to be robots then you might as well just nerve gas the area (unless
you have totally awesome AI, and cheap, too - unlikely in the OTU).
...
>> so they robots will attack fuels stations? Car bombs, you know.
>
>These are the weapons of terrorists and not of soldiers. If all you
>have left is terrorists you send most of the soldiers home since the
>war are over.
Standard guerilla doctrine is that terrorist acts are what precede ones
own ability to take the field. An enemy that understands that to be a cue
to send their army home is going to be very confused by wars end :|
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 10:10:42
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Warship Dining Arrangements in the Spinward Marches?
At 05:42 AM 3/5/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>IIRC, the US subfleet has or perhaps only experimented
>with similar ideas. 15 years ago when I was at an US
>Naval Academy applicant summer seminar deal, I
>seem to remember hearing that crews on the boomers
>could have anything they wanted to eat at just about
>any time they wanted (assuming it was there and they
>weren't on watch).
When I did the Bass Strait DE for Imperial Squadrons, I devoted a paragraph
to the food preparation areas. I had each section in competition with each
other to prepare the best meals.
Hey, it's a way to kill time on long patrols.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 11:26:43
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Your Name In Vilani
At 02:48 AM 3/5/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>Very cool! Now how do I pronounce:
>
>Shiruu Shiragenad
>or
>Shiiruu Shiragenad
Throat-Warbler Mangrove.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 11:26:27
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Your Name In Vilani
At 11:14 AM 3/5/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>Karishira Nariiririimaalamaarin
^^^^
You could probably drop one of those ri's
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 11:41:30
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Your Name In Vilani
At 09:05 PM 3/4/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>How to convolute your name into a Vilani name:
Douglas "Penguin" Berry
>Line 1:
Douglasyrrebpenguin
>Line 3:
Duuglasyrrebpengiin
>Line 4:
Duugirashiriirrebmengiin
>Line 5:
Duugirashirirebamenagiin
>Line 6:
Duugirashir Irebamenagiin
Amusing. Kirsten "Mousewench" Berry comes out as:
Kirshirarenia Ebemuusuenish
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 11:58:01 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
>From: "James W. Lindsay"
>Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
...
>Here's the kicker though: a 400t Type R Subsidized Merchant would be
>reduced to only 80 tons of cargo space if it needed to install three 40t
>bladders to store the fuel for the three successive jump-1 jumps. If we do
>the math, that boils down to nearly Cr10,000 to ship each single ton of cargo.
But is KCr 10/Dt a real killer? Sure, if you import bubblewrap, foam chips,
and raw materials, but manufacturing equipment? Finished high-tech goods? A
Dt is how many TL A workstations or laptops/PDAs? How much of the latest
medicine or the lab equipment to make it yourself? How much _information_?
>Oh, and don't think a government is really going to jump in and subsidize
>such a remote colony. They already lose money subsidizing trade on the
The Alaska Highway :)
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 11:58:06 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Interstellar Democracies in YTU
>From: Ingo Heinscher
>Subject: Re: Interstellar Democracies in YTU
...
>>That is the sense in which the revolution, rather than merely the
>>revolutionaries, could survive, or be destroyed. The other thing, of
>>course, is that "the revolutionaries" were not just some bunch of radical
>>lawyers in Paris, but were also millions and millions of peasants who had
>>seized land from their landlords, and millions of urban sans-culottes, and
>>so on.
>
>Do you think that people like Robespierre and his Mountain party primarily
>had the well-being of those peasants in mind when they started their
>slaughter?
They must have had some objectives beyond that of making corpses, and it
doesn't seem to have been wealth, or possibly even personal power. Utterly
mistaking the strength of their position vis-a-vis internal security and
violent resistance was no doubt a factor, of course. And those were fairly
clever men, all things considered, so they were trying to do something, yes?
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 11:59:51 -0800
From: sneadj@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: Telemarketing
GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
>In case you are wondering why they do this, telemarketing has a
>the higest response rate of any form of advertising, believe it or
>not.
You're kidding??!!! People on a regular basis actually buy from
companies which do this? I had always assumed it was done
merely because it was cheap enough to (barely) justify its
existence. If it actually is more effective that other forms of
advertising my view of humanity just slipped down another notch...
I never buy *anything* from such people since I loathe being called
by them and I assume any sort of good deal they are offering is a
con job.
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 11:59:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Cook
Subject: Re: Silent weapons...
As I sit here at my office desk, dummy M-61 fragmentation grenade in my
hand, I read Seth Kimmel's post. Seth writes:
> 1) Which is easier to throw; a stick grenade, or a "pineapple" style grenade?
Both are easy. IMHO, the baseball, lemon, or pineapple styles are easier
to throw for distance and accuracy. That's probably training and cultural
predisposition talking. I was only trained in the M-61s and M-67s when
I went through M.C.R.D.
> 2) Do you think Americans have an advantage with grenades (especially
> pineapple ones) since we play a lot of games that involve throwing things
> (like baseballs...:-) ) whereas Europeans play Soccer (football)?
Yes, in general I do, although I'm sure there are exceptions.
> 3) Since the English play Cricket, and their pitch is very different from a
> baseball pitch or throw; is their grenade throwing different?
A proper grenade throw is nothing like a Criket ball throw. It's basically
a stiff armed overhand lob. The idea is reach that theoretical perfect
throw that maximizes distance w/o dislocating the shoulder. :^)
- Mark C.
Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy
EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75
Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR
NRA (Life), GOA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)
Front Sight First Family member #1
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
mark f. cook * shoestring graphics & printing * markc@ssgfx.com
7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330 * http://www.ssgfx.com
Phone: 541-745-5709 Fax: 541-745-5818
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Remember that a government big enough to give you everything
you want is also big enough to take away everything you have."
--Col. David Crockett; member of the Tennessee legislature
(1821-1822/1823-1824); member U.S. House of Representatives
(1827-1831/1833-1835); and Texas Hero of the Alamo (1836)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 21:08:42 +1100
From: "Katharine Whitchurch"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000
> From: "Douglas E. Berry"
> Subject: Re: Silent firearms...
> From what I've seen of cricket, I doubt that the cricket movement is used.
> You want that grenade to arch away. I should be specific, they didn't want
> me to pitch that grenade, they wanted me to throw it like I was making a
> play from the outfield. A long, straight throw.
For what it's worth, outfielding is pretty similar in cricket and baseball.
Except for the glove, of course.
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> Subject: Self-sufficient planets
>
> In > For one thing, power is likely to be decentralized. Instead of a
power
> grid, houses and buildings will have their own fusion plants. And
> places that started as a mid TL colony are going to be pretty
> decentralized in other ways as well.
>
Umm, not under the economics implied in FFS2 etc. Basically, the big, chunky
power plants that get bonuses under the scale efficiency rules will exist if
the lossage and costs of transmitting the power is lower than the lossage
and costs implied in small, inefficient power plants.
> You can knock out *heavy* industry. You can "suppress" a lot of medium
> and light industry. But short of carpet bombing inhabited areas, you
> won't knock out all medium industry, or even *most* light industry.
But we can stop them getting the widgets from point A to point B. And
militia movement propaganda aside, it's the heavy weapons that tend to be
critical in a shooting war, and heavy weapons tend to be built by heavy
industry.
> And you *can't* "kill every ... aircraft" in a society where air rafts
> are as common as SUVs! Not without resorting to a level of destruction
> that cals for war crimes trials, and will make pacification of the
> populace *real* iffy. You are talking about the equivalent of
> destroying every *car* in a country.
We arent planning to destroy every grav vehicle. Just every grav vehicle
that breaks curfew.
> From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
> Subject: Re: Silent firearms...
>
> << During the Paific War, the 3rd NZ division regulary used .55 Boyes
> AT rifles to deal with Japanese snipers (he's behind a tree, never
> mind). >>
>
> They carried that heavy friggen' thing in the JUNGLE!!! Tough
troopies...:-)
>
It is possibly apocryphal, but Rommel is said to have said at one point that
he would take Australians as assault troops, but for the all-around best
troops he would pick New Zealanders.
Incidentally, they are having a good long think about their armed forces at
the moment, and are thinking about a military based around patrol boats and
a couple of Army battalions for peacekeeping.
> From: Walt Smith
> Subject: Anti-Tank Rifles (was RE: Silent firearms...)
> I don't know what the Japanese armor was like, though.
It was about up to scratch with the other countries that didnt have an
industrial base eg Poland, Yugoslavia, Italy.
Ian Whitchurch
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 07:11:59 +1100
From: "Robert O'Connor"
Subject: Re: Underwater habitation
John Wood wrote :-
> * Oxygen from "cracked" water, with the hydrogen going back into power
> generation. Do any other gases get used up in respiration and need
> replacing? What's the best thing to do with the CO2 produced?
>
Options are :-
scrubbing with light metal hydroxides to form carbonates (chemisorption)
;
conversion to glucose with photosynthesis - use plants ; and
molecular sieving with zeolites.
Check out the following URL for a review :-
http://www.orst.edu/~atwaterj/LifeSupport.html
Leonard's on the mark with other environmental problems.
I'd consult a textbook on dive physiology or hyperbaric medicine to get
more detailed info on appropriate gas mixtures.
Two other references might be the National Geographic articles from the
mid 50's and 60's where Cousteau et al were working on early habitats ;
and Arthur Clarke's 'The Deep Range'.
Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 12:28:06 -0800
From: sneadj@mindspring.com
Subject: Prices of Grav Vehicles
IN TD # 20 there was an article of Budget grav vehicles. The author
described a number of vehicles which could be designed under MT
which cost less than $20,000. There was a grav cycle for around
8,000 CR, and a grav car for around 16,000 CR, as well as a tiny,
minimalist belter prospecting ship for around 150,000 CR.
One example:
Siengo Economy Grav, TL 15, Cr 16150
Hull 1/2, Disp 0.075, Config 4USL Armor 2G
Unloaded 1.055 tons, Loaded 2.106 tons
Power 1/2 fuel cell x2 0.54 Mw, Duration 37/111
Loco 1/2, stdgrav, Thrust 3 tons Noe 40 kph
Cruise 225 kph, top 300 kph Max Accel 0.43 G
Commo radio Verydist (50 km)
Sensors radar Dist (5 km), headlights x2
Panel Electronics x5, Environ = BasEnv, Bas LS
Accom Crew =1 (driver) Seats = cramped x4
Fuel 0.73 kl Cargo 1 kl
All these craft used fuel cells for power and electronic controls
(since fusions plants and computers are most of the cost of
vehicles).
Also, by the rules listed in 101 vehicles they could even have used
holodynamic linked controls
"101 Vehicles page 1:
"If its control point (CP) needs are very low, a craft can get by
without a computer. The "linked" control panels have a limited
amount of computer intelligence built in..." Which makes sense
given that such a control panel has a volume of 30 liters.
I have always assumed that 90% of people in the TU are driving
this sort of grav vehicle, and that the more expensive ones are
purely for the military or for use as starship vehicles.
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 12:33:16 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
On Sun, 05 Mar 2000 11:58:01 -0800, Steven Hudson wrote:
> >From: "James W. Lindsay"
> >Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
> ...
> >Here's the kicker though: a 400t Type R Subsidized Merchant would be
> >reduced to only 80 tons of cargo space if it needed to install three 40t
> >bladders to store the fuel for the three successive jump-1 jumps. If we do
> >the math, that boils down to nearly Cr10,000 to ship each single ton of cargo.
>
> But is KCr 10/Dt a real killer?
It is if you consider that Cr10,000 per displacement ton is *ten* times the
going rate. Unless the items are rare or crucial, not many people are
going to want to spend that kind of money.
Real world example: it costs anywhere from $1,000-$2,000 to transport a car
from North America overseas. Imagine paying $10,000-$20,000 instead. Such
a high price might only be worth while for owners of rare Ferarris, but not
for Joe Blow and his '86 Crown Victoria :)
Again, I'm not saying that trade with such a remote colony would be
impossible, only difficult and expensive-- which usually translates into
"less than ideal". Look at the Ziru Sirka map again... the Vilani *did*
expand coreward, trailing, and even into the Greater Rift. They eventually
stopped after a dozen parsecs or so because it was simply more profitable
to expand rimward.
> >Oh, and don't think a government is really going to jump in and subsidize
> >such a remote colony. They already lose money subsidizing trade on the
>
> The Alaska Highway :)
Which was initially a military project undertaken in 1942. Until the
threat of war, Alaska's only link with the rest of the US was by sea or
air. It took a threat of invasion for the US government to build the
highway. IOW, this isn't a fair comparison :)
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Political panjandrums prologize pedantic paronomasia.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2005
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Traveller-digest Sunday, March 5 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2006
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Using no ground troops
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
Re: Underwater habitation
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
Re: Using no ground troops
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
Re: Using no ground troops
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
Re: Using no ground troops
RE: MT Books for Sale - URGENT
Re: [BITS] UK Convention News and ACQ
RE: MT Books for Sale - URGENT
Re: Underwater habitation
re: Underwater habitation
Any T4 Ship Requests?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 12:32:06
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Using no ground troops
At 12:36 AM 3/5/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
>> And these broadcasts are coming from where?
>
>Orbital ships. I'm assuming in all cases that the attacker holds
>orbit and now wishes to conquer the planet below.
"Bart Simpson is sleeping with your wife" - Iraqi propaganda, Persian Gulf
War, 1990.
Propaganda of this sort is notoriously unreliable. At best, nobody bothers
to listen, at worse you make stupid mistakes like the one above, and your
enemies know you are lying.
"Bagdhad Betty" was extremely popular among the troops in the Gulf, bith
for the ridiculous things she said, but also for the better music when
compared to AFN.
>> Weapon of mass destruction. Let me ask you, if you found out the
>> Russians/Chinese/Daughters of the American Revolution were controlling
>> your mind like that, what would your reaction be? *After* you got into
>> the Moon suit?
>
>If you knew to get into the moon suit. Also, that won't help 99.9%
>of the population unless it is a world where most folks own their
>own vacc suits.
For any threat situation, the US Army doctrine is to get into MOPP-4. That
doesn't even count things like submarines.
Assume a world of 100 million (when writing Ground Forces, I found this was
the lowest real population could offer serious resistance) That leaves
100,000 people available to fight back. Let's assume that only 1% of those
people have the skills necessary to help out in the research necessary to
counter act your agent (this includes lab techs and scroungers, along with
the actual scientists.) This gives you a research force of 1000 people
working day and night to stop you.
>> Anyway, you still don't have the planet. And how do you punish the
>> rebels who remain? Sabotage can be very subtle.
>
>Why is this any different whether you use ground troops or tailored
>viruses &/or warbots? In either case, rebels will remain. In most
>cases, you'll need to wait a generation or more before they die off
>and their children cease to care. However, you now hold the
>ground w/o using a single ground soldier. You will need police
>forces, but you would also need them once the soldiers finished
>their conquest.
Because of the psychological impact. Germany never really collapsed and
accepted defeat until the tanks rolled in. All through the bombing
campaigns, morale remained fairly high, even the standard of living was
pretty good up until Fall '44. But the psychological impact of seeing the
Tommies or Amis rolling through your town was immeasurable. You had lost.
They were on your home ground. Once American and British troops were across
the Rhine in large numbers the German home front just collapsed.
The image of the Germans marching under the Arc de Triomph (pardon my
French) was so devastating to the French because it was a symbolic gesture
that France had fallen. If our theoretical defenders still hold the
ground, it's still theirs.
That's important, especially from a Traveller perspective since Traveller
doesn't have mind control gasses.
>> So what do you do Admiral? Command is screaming about ship losses due
>> to poor widgets. You have no assets on the ground to investigate, but
>> the locals assure you that everything is being done (ever see
>> Casablanca?).
>
>Once any form of conquest is over the conqueror moves in
>administrators and police forces to take control, or convinces the
>local government to work for them. The 2nd option is often a
>foolish move. So, now you have personnel there. After the troops-
>in-mud conquest is over, the vast majority of the soldiers will leave
>since having your standing army permanently occupy the world is
>going to be far from cheap.
But the populace will be more accustomed to your presence. You don't want
to tie down your Military Government units any longer than necessary. Those
troops want to go home! So what happens when you leave? Have you left a
legacy of death and destruction with no human face, or are your seen as
*people*.
I can't stress how important that human (or other sophont) interaction is.
I was taught that the Russians were big scary people who were barely human,
and given a chance would seize my Traveller books and send me to the camps.
Now I know several Russians, (including one former Desantski) who tell me
that they heard the same things about us!
>That this point, your solution and mine result in the exact same
>situation. The difference being that mine is cheaper, and results in
>much less loss of life for the conquerors and very possibly for the
>conquered.
Except that similar plans on Earth have never worked. Control of the air
gives you nothing but control of the air. For Traveller, you are assuming a
few non-canonical items like these gasses and *very* smart robots.
Let's assume that the plan does work. 99.9% of the population become
docile, the fleet comes out of hiding, and you leave behind a token force
of governors and police. Putting aside the moral implications of enslaving
an entire world by destroying their free will; what happens when that .1%
has the chance to strike back? A few carefully selected assassinations can
wreck wonderful havoc in an occupying force.
>> So they ignore them. Nobody carries a weapon, everybody just goes
>> along, and you get a nice thank you note for reducing the local crime
>> rate.
>
>Now you send in the administrators and police personnel. For
>extra security, each one has a robot hovering nearby programmed
>to stun or kill anyone pointing a weapon (knives included in this
>case) at the person or their personnel warbot. However, this will
>serve to distance these folks from the conquered, so if you care
>about such things you merely program the robots to ignore the
>police and adminstrators (gene-coded radio ID bracelets combined
>with periodic retina scans [which even today can be done at a
>range of 3 meters) would serve to ID them fairly well]. Now, the
>only folks with weapons on the ground are the conquerors. Simply
>leave the robots in place and the world will be rather easy to rule.
With a Barrett .50 I could hit targets at 1000+ meters reliably. And, as
mention in another thread, crossbows are wonderful things.
>Also, if you equip them with good sensors then they can also hunt
>down and stun or kill any known rebels, dissidents or anyone else
>you want out of circulation.
so we now have the destruction of free will, slavery, and execution without
any sort of due process.
>> so they robots will attack fuel stations? Car bombs, you know.
>
>These are the weapons of terrorists and not of soldiers. If all you
>have left is terrorists you send most of the soldiers home since the
>war are over.
The founders of Israel were terrorists until the moment the Israeli flag
was lifted.
I would also point out that despite years of British Military involvement,
the various terrorist groups in Northern Ireland still manage to commit a
few atrocities.
>> Hitler thought the fighting was over in 1940. Reprisals much worse
>> than you describe did nothing to stop resistance in both France and
>> later Russia. Even the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto, armed with a single
>> *revolver* took on the SS. Failed, but the act itself shows how hard
>> it is to destroy the human spirit.
>
>They were fighting for their lives. Since you won't be committing
>genocide (that's easy enough to do from orbit) the motivations will
>be rather less extreme. If surrender means death then fighting to
>the last person alive is a reasonable option. If this is not true then
>it simply isn't
And the people who are being enslaved and mind-controlled *aren't* fighting
for their lives? My God man, look at this scenario: A zombified, pacified
population threatened with death from either orbiting warships or robots
that have *very* liberal shoot-to-kill orders for any transgression.
Under these circumstances, the few able to rebel will be fanatics!
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God" - Thomas Jefferson.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 12:34:44
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
At 11:58 AM 3/5/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>>Oh, and don't think a government is really going to jump in and subsidize
>>such a remote colony. They already lose money subsidizing trade on the
>>The Alaska Highway :)
That's the one that goes north, right?
Gee, whatever could be up arund Prudhoe Bay to attract such interest?
If the world in question had an amzing resource, such as massive lanthanum
deposits, this might become feasible, but the discussion thus far has
centered on a small colony breaking off on it's own.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 14:36:41 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Underwater habitation
On 03/06/00 at 07:11 AM, "Robert O'Connor" said:
>Leonard's on the mark with other environmental problems.
>I'd consult a textbook on dive physiology or hyperbaric medicine to get
>more detailed info on appropriate gas mixtures.
>Two other references might be the National Geographic articles from the
>mid 50's and 60's where Cousteau et al were working on early habitats ;
>and Arthur Clarke's 'The Deep Range'.
Everyone seems to be considering *only* deep sea habitats. Just to
present some alternatives to think about...
An ocean world might have lots of shallow seas where you don't have
to worry too much about deep water pressure problems. Picture a
world with millions of square km of shallow seas dotted with island
chains and atolls. Cities, towns and even individual "farmsteads"
within the atolls, around the islands, and scattered across the
shallow seas, none in the "deserts" of deep ocean, none suffering
severely from the deep water issues you've presented.
Additionally, I can see huge "floating cities", floating not on, but
a at and just below the surface, sinking lower only to keep them out
of "bad weather." These underwater could by turn be anchored to the
ocean floor by cables, float free drifting with tides, or be powered
moving across the seas in some pattern.
Ideas to play with: solar and water temperature differential power,
large aquiculture farming areas, mineral extraction from sea water,
artificial gills.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 12:40:48 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
On Sun, 05 Mar 2000 10:54:56 -0800, Steven Hudson wrote:
> From: "James W. Lindsay"
> >Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
>
> > The bastard cost 351 *trillion* credits
>
> Billions, yes?
Oops... I just dug out my old notes and it is indeed listed as
MCr351,071.67
That'll teach me for starting an email late at night and finishing it off
first thing on the morning :)
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Political panjandrums prologize pedantic paronomasia.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 12:54:27 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: Using no ground troops
On Sun, 05 Mar 2000 12:32:06, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> I can't stress how important that human (or other sophont) interaction is.
> I was taught that the Russians were big scary people who were barely human,
> and given a chance would seize my Traveller books and send me to the camps.
> Now I know several Russians, (including one former Desantski) who tell me
> that they heard the same things about us!
They played Traveller in the USSR back in the eighties? :)
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Political panjandrums prologize pedantic paronomasia.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 13:25:12 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
>From: "James W. Lindsay"
>Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
...
>> >Here's the kicker though: a 400t Type R Subsidized Merchant would be
>> >reduced to only 80 tons of cargo space if it needed to install three 40t
>> >bladders to store the fuel for the three successive jump-1 jumps. If we do
>> >the math, that boils down to nearly Cr10,000 to ship each single ton of
cargo.
>>
>> But is KCr 10/Dt a real killer?
>
>It is if you consider that Cr10,000 per displacement ton is *ten* times the
>going rate. Unless the items are rare or crucial, not many people are
>going to want to spend that kind of money.
The "going rate" rate for what? The same service? We're agreed that it
makes things more costly, but there's simply no multiplier that makes
traffic impossible, or even very unlikely. Lower volume, OTOH, will start
to appear pretty quickly, if for no other reason than the reduction in
the shipment of high bulk/low-value goods - those will tend to be cheaper
to procure locally.
>Again, I'm not saying that trade with such a remote colony would be
>impossible, only difficult and expensive-- which usually translates into
>"less than ideal". Look at the Ziru Sirka map again... the Vilani *did*
>expand coreward, trailing, and even into the Greater Rift. They eventually
>stopped after a dozen parsecs or so because it was simply more profitable
>to expand rimward.
I'm comfortable with all that.
>> >Oh, and don't think a government is really going to jump in and subsidize
>> >such a remote colony. They already lose money subsidizing trade on the
>>
>> The Alaska Highway :)
>
>Which was initially a military project undertaken in 1942. Until the
>threat of war, Alaska's only link with the rest of the US was by sea or
>air. It took a threat of invasion for the US government to build the
>highway. IOW, this isn't a fair comparison :)
I'd suggest that the real objective was political, as the idea of Japanese
troops marching through the northern Rockies is more one to bring to mind
thoughts of humanitarian relief for the survivors than anything else (hmm,
those 20mm ATR's would be real useful for stopping grizzlies, though :> ).
And political/military objectives will usually lead to economic intervention,
intentional or not. In the ZS case, expanding their territory Spinward would
give them an early-warning zone and a security buffer for threats to Vland
itself.
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 13:03:41
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Using no ground troops
At 12:54 PM 3/5/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>On Sun, 05 Mar 2000 12:32:06, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>
>> I can't stress how important that human (or other sophont) interaction is.
>> I was taught that the Russians were big scary people who were barely
>> human, and given a chance would seize my Traveller books and send me to
>> the camps.
>> Now I know several Russians, (including one former Desantski) who tell me
>> that they heard the same things about us!
>
>They played Traveller in the USSR back in the eighties? :)
Of course! The fall of the Soviet Union was caused by the Mikoyhan and
Sulkoi design bureaus tried to design the next-generation Soviet airplanes
with MegaErrata.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 13:26:49 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
>From: "Douglas E. Berry"
>Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
...
>> What if people pay the exorbitant prices?
>
>You end up with a really screwed up economy.
People don't pay high shipping costs IYTU? :) It certainly happens all
the time in RL. The real issue is whether the shipping charge is going
to significantly impact effective demand for the goods in question; an
extra $3K may alter the desirabilty of a cheap car, but not that of a
$500K status symbol.
...
>The PRC's claim to Taiwan has never been taken seriously by anyone. It
>actually is fairly good example.
Yes, but eventually it will likely be taken more seriously; if fifteen
years sees the US in one of its isolationist periods then that could be
the end of them, and the advancement of Chinese influence into the S & W
Pacific would be greatly sped up.
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 16:28:29 -0500
From: Dave Biggs
Subject: Re: Using no ground troops
At 12:54 PM 3/5/00 -0800, you wrote:
>On Sun, 05 Mar 2000 12:32:06, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>
> > I can't stress how important that human (or other sophont) interaction is.
> > I was taught that the Russians were big scary people who were barely human,
> > and given a chance would seize my Traveller books and send me to the camps.
> > Now I know several Russians, (including one former Desantski) who tell me
> > that they heard the same things about us!
>
>They played Traveller in the USSR back in the eighties? :)
In their version as you made the jump to hyper space the East Germany's
would shoot you...
Dave Biggs ------- dbiggs@cfl.rr.com
Sauron on FIBS, NODS & DeeBiggs on Yahoo
"stupid races don't build starships" -- Robert Heinlein
Ad Infinitem Et Ultra
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 13:15:38 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff
Subject: RE: MT Books for Sale - URGENT
I'd REALLY like to get V&V, Flaming Eye, and Arrival Vengeance!!!
Lemme' know!
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Michel
> Vaillancourt
> Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2000 9:13 AM
> To: traveller@mpgn.com
> Subject: MT Books for Sale
>
>
> A friend is selling off his MT collection:
>
> >Books:
> >
> >Hard Times sourcebook ($10)
> >Flaming Eye campaign sourcebook ($10)
> >Starship Operator's Manual vol. I ($8)
> >Knightfall Adventure ($8)
> >Fighting Ships of the Shattered Imperium ($8)
> >Assignment: Vigilante ($3)
> >Rebellion Sourcebook ($10)
> >101 Vehicles ($8)
> >Astrogator's Guide to Diaspora Sector ($3)
> >Survival Margin ($10)
> >COACC ($8)
> >Arrival Vengeance campaign ($5)
> >Vilani & Vargr ($10)
> >
> >Buy more than two, get $1 off each... buy the lot and we'll talk!
> >
> >Magazines:
> >
> >Challenge #40-62, 55-57, 61, 63, 64, 68, 75 ($2 each)
> >Traveller's Digest #20, #21 ($3 each)
> >MegaTraveller Journal #1, #2 ($4 each)
> >
> >Buy more than two, get $.50 off each... buy the lot and we'll talk!
> >
> >Shipping is extra.
> >
> > Steve Boyko (sboyko@nbnet.nb.ca)
> > www.geocities.com/~rupert_m
> > -------------------- ICQ #882866 --------------------
>
> Prices are USD, you pay the shipping. Please contact him
> directly.
>
> --Michel
>
> -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
> Michel R. Vaillancourt misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
> ICQ # 31172292
> "Reality Error in Progress....
> ....Do Not Adjust Your Penguin"
> -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
> Cyberpunk: http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020
> Traveller: http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller
> AD&D: http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/adnd_eurania
> -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
> ***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***
> -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 21:38:51 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: [BITS] UK Convention News and ACQ
On Sat, 4 Mar 2000 01:16:54 +0000, SD Mooney wrote:
[snip]
> With us will be a number of interesting things -
> some of the first 50 copies of Doug Berry's long awaited Penguin
^^^^^^^^^^^^
> throwing 'At Close Quarters' (ACQ)...
I feel I should re-phrase that "Doug Berry and James Lindsay's
ballistic Penguin supplement, 'ACQ' ".
Sorry James,
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 13:38:16 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff
Subject: RE: MT Books for Sale - URGENT
Sorry, that was supposed to go directly to Michel.
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Jesse
> DeGraff
> Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2000 1:16 PM
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: RE: MT Books for Sale - URGENT
> Importance: High
>
>
> I'd REALLY like to get V&V, Flaming Eye, and Arrival Vengeance!!!
>
> Lemme' know!
>
> Jesse
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> > [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Michel
> > Vaillancourt
> > Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2000 9:13 AM
> > To: traveller@mpgn.com
> > Subject: MT Books for Sale
> >
> >
> > A friend is selling off his MT collection:
> >
> > >Books:
> > >
> > >Hard Times sourcebook ($10)
> > >Flaming Eye campaign sourcebook ($10)
> > >Starship Operator's Manual vol. I ($8)
> > >Knightfall Adventure ($8)
> > >Fighting Ships of the Shattered Imperium ($8)
> > >Assignment: Vigilante ($3)
> > >Rebellion Sourcebook ($10)
> > >101 Vehicles ($8)
> > >Astrogator's Guide to Diaspora Sector ($3)
> > >Survival Margin ($10)
> > >COACC ($8)
> > >Arrival Vengeance campaign ($5)
> > >Vilani & Vargr ($10)
> > >
> > >Buy more than two, get $1 off each... buy the lot and we'll talk!
> > >
> > >Magazines:
> > >
> > >Challenge #40-62, 55-57, 61, 63, 64, 68, 75 ($2 each)
> > >Traveller's Digest #20, #21 ($3 each)
> > >MegaTraveller Journal #1, #2 ($4 each)
> > >
> > >Buy more than two, get $.50 off each... buy the lot and we'll talk!
> > >
> > >Shipping is extra.
> > >
> > > Steve Boyko (sboyko@nbnet.nb.ca)
> > > www.geocities.com/~rupert_m
> > > -------------------- ICQ #882866 --------------------
> >
> > Prices are USD, you pay the shipping. Please contact him
> > directly.
> >
> > --Michel
> >
> > -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
> > Michel R. Vaillancourt misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
> > ICQ # 31172292
> > "Reality Error in Progress....
> > ....Do Not Adjust Your Penguin"
> > -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
> > Cyberpunk: http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020
> > Traveller: http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller
> > AD&D: http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/adnd_eurania
> > -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
> > ***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***
> > -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
> >
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 22:10:01 +0000
From: John Wood
Subject: Re: Underwater habitation
Leonard Erickson wrote,
>> The single most useful thing so far has
>> been the observation that (apart from the reversed pressure gradient,
>> and the presence of gravity) problems are similar for underwater and
>> space habitats.
>
>Actually, the pressure problems are *very* different. One of the big
>problems with an underwater habitat of any size is that the pressure on
>the hab changes *significantly* from floor to ceiling. Multi-story habs
>are even worse.
[snip explanation, and loads of other problems with equalising interior
and exterior pressure - many other comments feed back to this]
On the other hand:
>If you try keeping the habs at surface pressure, any leak will *kill*
>anybody in the affected compartments unless the water is *really* shallow.
This was what I was thinking of doing, but was probably underestimating
the severity of a multi-atmosphere rise in pressure compared to
decompression in a space habitat. I may still go for this given the
other problems you've outlined.
The UWP is A789653-D, so we have a planet slightly smaller than Terra
with a dense atmosphere. People will be acclimatised to greater pressure
and the gravity is probably a little less than 1G, so pressure will
increase somewhat more slowly than .1 atm/m but from a higher baseline.
We're probably a bit better off on average, but not by much.
TL13 means superdense exists and is probably in civilian use. I can't
visualise what this means for building.
How about this: internal pressure of 2-3 atm and multiple shells of
superdense around the (single-storey) domes and tunnels, with stepped
increases in the pressure so that a leak in one shell is not
catastrophic; a shallow shelf or suitable "high ground" to make things
easier; and horror stories of some disaster from the past to keep people
on their toes.
Incidentally, what happens to pressure increase once you hit the sea
bed? Is building 20m below the water any worse than 10m?
>> * Most food being locally-produced aquaculture, with kelp and algae (or
>> their analogues) as staples and land-grown food being the biggest
>> luxury.
>
>You forgot fish, crabs, sea-slugs, etc.
Actually I forgot to *mention* them, since I put them at a mid-price
level, like chicken for us surface-dwellers (or at least those of us who
eat meat).
>> * Possibly a ban on any weapons which could accidentally breach the
>> domes.
>
>And all industrial processes too?
The idea is just to make it less likely someone will damage the dome in
a moment of hot-headedness. You can't stop people causing deliberate
damage, nor can you avoid all accidents while performing necessary
tasks. I guess this is a typical British position; here in the UK ten
deaths a day is seen as an acceptable cost for the benefits the car
brings but we severely restrict firearms. Let's not get into that,
though.
John
John G. Wood | john@elvw.demon.co.uk | Oxford, United Kingdom
IMTU tc+ tm+ tn t4(+) ru--(+) ge 3i+ jt au- st ls+ hi++ so- zh+ pi+ jd++
Traveller IS Forms, Gal2CC, etc: http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 17:22:08 -0500
From: Walt Smith
Subject: re: Underwater habitation
RObert O'Connor wrote:
>Two other references might be the National Geographic articles from the
>mid 50's and 60's where Cousteau et al were working on early habitats ;
>and Arthur Clarke's 'The Deep Range'.
I've visited one of the sites of the US Navy's "Man in the Sea" project
(1970's, Little Lameshur Bay, St. John, US Virgin Islands). 110 feet
down, where the bottom starts dropping off. Just some concrete slabs
left, and you've got to look to see 'em. ISTR them setting some early
records for duration underwater - or at least, duration at pressure under
water.
The quonset(sp?) huts they built as a support installation ashore are
now a field research institute for a university on the islands, they had
a nice relationship with my alma mater while I was in school.
Walt Smith
(dreaming of the Islands in the Carribean Sea...mmmm)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 17:08:19 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Any T4 Ship Requests?
Gentlesophonts:
I'm currently reworking the AuricTech Shipyards site, and figured that I
could work in a few requests. Currently, the site has the following
ships:
ST. LOUIS-class cruiser (TL13, 60,000 dton)
BROOKLYN-class cruiser (TL13, 60,000 dton)
TUSCALOOSA-class cruiser (TL15, 70,000 dton)
GRAN FENWICK-class IISS cruiser (TL15, 25,000 dton)
ELPHINSTONE-class frigate (TL18, 25,000 dton)
REUBEN TUCKER-class platoon jump-troop transport (TL13, 800 dtons)
ELECTRA II-class yacht (TL13, 1000 dtons)
ELECTRA III-class yacht (TL15, 1000 dtons)
F21-1 and F21-2 light transports (both TL15, 100 dtons)
I plan to keep all of the above ships, plus I'm definitely adding the
following ships (* designates ships previously posted to the TML):
SCULPIN-class commerce raider* (THUDDD 12 entry; TL15, 3000 dtons)
TEMPTRESS-class Q-ship* (TL15, 400 dtons)
GREYHOUND-class Jump-6 yacht* (TL15, 100 dtons)
AGINCOURT-class battleship (TL12, 160,000 dtons)
CLEVELAND-class cruiser (TL15, 60,000 dtons)
GHARTRZ STAR-class freightliner* (TL12, 20,000 dtons)
NIXXON STAR-class freightliner (TL15, 20,000 dtons)
JUBILEE-class "Yacht 2000"* (TL12, 2000 dtons)
LUA-1 Utility Lifeboat (THUDDD 10 entry; TL12, 30 dtons)
LION-class battlecruiser (TL15, 120,000 dtons)
FA-1 Light Fighter (TL15, 10 dtons)
and maybe a couple of other designs I have on the shelf.
So, does anybody have any requests for other ships?
Do I need to post ships for High Guard (the only other design system I
own)?
Also, is it useful that I make the spreadsheet used to design the
various ships available for download?
Finally, should I include the CUSP stats for Bruce Alan Macintosh's
Military Combat System as either a separate download, or part of the
ship USP sheet?
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2006
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Traveller-digest Sunday, March 5 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2007
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Using no ground troops
Re: MT Books for Sale
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
First Survey errata
Re: Using no ground troops (longish)
Re: Using no ground troops
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
Let's Vote for Traveller
RE: Silent firearms...
Re: Let's Vote for Traveller
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
Re: Let's Vote for Traveller
Re: Let's Vote for Traveller
Re: Let's Vote for Traveller
Re: Let's Vote for Traveller
Re: Let's Vote for Traveller
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
Re: Let's Vote for Traveller
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 18:16:00 -0500
From: "Josh W. Spencer"
Subject: Re: Using no ground troops
Dave Biggs wrote:
>
> In their version as you made the jump to hyper space the East Germany's
> would shoot you...
>
Reminds me of one of my all-time favorite Cold War jokes:
An American visits his relatives behind the Iron Curtain in Warsaw. During
his trip he manages to slip away fromt the secret police and finds his
relatives. They take him to a quiet bar, where they start asking him many
questions about America, which he is only too happy to answer.
Then the American asks his Polish relatives: "My God, you're smack right
inbetween the USSR and East Germany. If both countries decided to invade you
at the same time, which country would you fight first?"
One Polish relative replied, "That's easy! We'd fight the Russians first! We
believe in Business before Pleasure!"
- --
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)
VILANI ALIAS: Iashir Rekiinikimas Uiagam
Ypsilanti, Michigan, North America, Terra
Sol Subsector, Solomani Rim Sector
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 19:49:11 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: Re: MT Books for Sale
At 01:12 PM 3/5/00 -0400, you wrote:
[snip]
>>Shipping is extra.
>>
>> Steve Boyko (sboyko@nbnet.nb.ca)
>> www.geocities.com/~rupert_m
>> -------------------- ICQ #882866 --------------------
>
> Prices are USD, you pay the shipping. Please contact him directly.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Folks, PLEASE READ THE ABOVE CAREFULLY.
They aren't my books, and I don't know what has or has not sold.
--Michel
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
Michel R. Vaillancourt misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
ICQ # 31172292
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
NET-City Communications....
Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 16:29:05 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
>From: "Douglas E. Berry"
>Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
...
>>>The Alaska Highway :)
>
>That's the one that goes north, right?
>
>Gee, whatever could be up arund Prudhoe Bay to attract such interest?
At the time, SFA. And while the road provides great support for the
pipe-line building & related oil projects of the `60's & `70's, it was
allegedly built for the military purposes of the early `40's. And the
oil industry relies on tankers, of course; sober crew cost extra :)
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 19:51:22 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: First Survey errata
Does anyone know where I can find a copy of the errata for this T4 book?
Thanks
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 19:19:16 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Using no ground troops (longish)
sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
<>
**Note: in responding, I have rearranged a couple of the original
poster's suggestions**
> Rather than sending anyone
> down to the planet until it is fully secure you could:
>
> Insert subliminal messages in any broadcast communications
>
> Create propaganda (using their superior knowledge of sophont
> psychology) which actually works on a large percentage of the
> population.
Exactly how do you compel anyone to listen? How do you tell from orbit
how effective your propaganda is? And how do you prevent the
dissemination of counter-propaganda by the world's leaders?
One of my favorite propaganda stories comes from the Korean War (Doug
already posted the Iraqi "Bart Simpson" reference). During Brigadier
General Haydon "Bull" Boatner's time with the 2nd Division, he was
"sprayed with American psychological warfare leaflets" while two miles
inside friendly territory. Boatner, who had learned Chinese while
stationed there in the late 1920s, informed Eighth Army Psych War Branch
that the leaflets, written in high literary Chinese, "wouldn't motivate
a common soldier with a full gizzard to take a crap." [This anecdote,
and both quotes above, taken from T.R. Fehrenbach's _This Kind of War_.]
Even if the Zhos have a fine understanding of psychology in general,
propaganda requires a detailed knowledge of the target culture, and
feedback from the target audience. Observation from orbit is unlikely
to provide adequate feedback.
>
> Tailor viruses to produce useful emotional states or remove
> undesirable emotional states from the populace (If anyone has
> nanotech they can simply rewrite the populace's loyalty, but this is
> well beyond normal TLs).
>
> Or, for a more direct, immediate, & heavy-handed control:
>
> 1) Infect *everyone* on the planet with a gradually (weeks to
> months) lethal disease or poison which you hold the antidote to
> (idea borrowed shamelessly from David Brin's Uplift War). Not only
> will this flush all the rebels out of the hills and concentrate the
> populace in a few specific cities, but if you make the treatment
> require numerous repeated dosages given over a period of months
> the rebels won't be headed back into the hills anytime soon. Also,
> you can do this and risk no troops by simply sending down robots
> to administer the antidotes until after everyone is in those cities
> where antidotes are being administered.
Here you are suggesting that an interstellar polity, as a matter of
doctrine, routinely conduct attacks with Weapons of Mass Destruction
upon civilian populations. If you don't win the whole war (and I'm
talking Rome versus Carthage, here), you'll be lucky to earn lifetime
accomodations at the equivalent of Spandau Prison. Genocide, Crimes
Against Humaniti....
Once word gets out about your doctrine, resistance will likely
_increase_, rather than decrease. In WW II, Soviet soldiers stopped
surrendering to the Germans, once they found out what happened to their
comrades who had surrendered.
And what happens if you lose a world you have conquered using these
methods? During the Fifth Frontier War, for instance, the world Heya,
in the Regina subsector, was occupied by Vargr forces from about
338-1108 to about 083-1109 (about 3 1/2 months). Had your tactics been
employed by the Vargr, the 70 million residents of Heya would likely
have *all died* from the bio/chem attack on the civilians, due to their
liberation. The outrage that such an event would have caused would have
made American outrage about Pearl Harbor seem a warm glow of friendship
toward Japan. Further, anger about atrocities enjoys a lifespan
measured in centuries. One of the roots of the current Kosivo situation
is that the Serbs still recall their defeat there by the Ottoman Turks,
some 600 years ago, and thus the Serbs don't want to relinquish "their
land" to a bunch of Albanian immigrants.
Bottom line: If your forces don't succeed in winning a Carthaginian
peace, these tactics will only fuel stiffer resistance by those worlds
not yet under your yoke.
Since I don't have access to Book 8, I'll reserve comment on the warbot
army idea, except to say that I doubt that, using Traveller tech, one
could develop fully autonomous robots that would be more cost-effective
than living soldiers.
Overall, it seems that you approached this from the point of view of "if
we do this to them, they'll give in."
Try asking yourself, "if they did this to _us_, would I give in?" You
may find the answer is different, when the problem is viewed from a
first-person perspective.
<>
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 21:23:04 -0500
From: "David J. Golden"
Subject: Re: Using no ground troops
At 12:32 pm 3/5/00, you wrote:
>I can't stress how important that human (or other sophont)
interaction is.
>I was taught that the Russians were big scary people who were barely
human,
>and given a chance would seize my Traveller books and send me to the
camps.
>Now I know several Russians, (including one former Desantski) who
tell me
>that they heard the same things about us!
And it was probably true, too. Anybody on this list would steal
Traveller books from a defeated enemy, given the opportunity ...
especially the rarer ones!
- -- Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with your Microsoft
product.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 18:29:20 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
On Sun, 05 Mar 2000 13:25:12 -0800, Steven Hudson wrote:
> And political/military objectives will usually lead to economic intervention,
> intentional or not. In the ZS case, expanding their territory Spinward would
> give them an early-warning zone and a security buffer for threats to Vland
> itself.
Like I said, besides the Vland sector map I have no detailed stellar data
trailing of the Domain of Deneb. From what I can see on the Vland map,
there are at least four empty hexes between Vland itself and the spinward
edge of the map bordering Corridor-- no matter from which direction you
intend to approach Vland. Studying the "dot map" of Corridor sector it
looks like the coreward subsectors aren't very densely packed either,
meaning that further jumps over empty hexes would be necessary.
In the early days, the only jump drive to exist was the jump-1 drive. Even
if the "enemy" managed to jump over all those hexes and surprise you in
your own territory, any warnings of invasion would surge only about a week
ahead of any determined attack force. The speed of communication might
delay news of invaders nearly half a year from the spinward edge of Vland
to Vland itself, and the enemy could do a lot of damage during that time.
It wouldn't be much of a buffer.
Alas, the Vilani found no "enemy" to spinward around the tip of the Great
Rift. Vilani had Jump-2 before the Vargr even discovered the jump drive.
By the end of the 1st Imperium, canon states that the Vilani did indeed
have a governor in Corridor and Provence sectors (Tazzik Kuluunaddar). It
was the Vargr that encountered the Vilani, and it was their greed for
exploitation that surpassed the Vilani's own conservatism to allow *them*
to jump all those empty hexes and reach Vland sector.
Perhaps a quote from V&V best sums up why it just isn't profitable for the
Vilani to veer from the jump-1 mains: "The interstellar expansion of the
early (Vargr) explorers and merchants met a barrier to trailing-- the
Windhorn Rift. Stars within the Rift were too far apart to allow easy jump
travel. Although many courageous efforts were made to cross the Rift, the
technology of the time was unable to meet the challenge."
The text couldn't be talking about spanning the empty blackness of the
Rifts as we know it, since the Vargr only had jump-1. It is MHO that the
area that they are talking about is the sparse region of stars between the
Windhorn and the coreward tip of the Great Rift. Even the rimward regions
of Provence would appear to pose a serious problem to anyone with only
jump-1.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Political panjandrums prologize pedantic paronomasia.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 20:33:05 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Let's Vote for Traveller
Here's a url for very unscientific poll for the "Best RPG"...
http://www.freevote.com/booth/best_rpg
Traveller is *way* down at the bottom. How about taking a minute
and go cast a few votes for *our* favorite.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 15:34:33 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: RE: Silent firearms...
On 5 Mar 00, at 9:53, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> At 09:04 PM 3/4/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>
> >A group of us sat there
> >for about three hours, gratuitously expending 40mm rounds. Hundreds of
> >40mm rounds. Many hundreds of 40mm rounds. We got pretty good after a
> >while. By late afternoon we were all accuate enough to reliably hit all
> >of the targets on the range without using the sights.
>
> Aww, MAN!! Why wasn't *I* there?
Sucks, don't it?
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 18:52:31 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: Let's Vote for Traveller
On Sun, 05 Mar 2000 20:33:05 -0600, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
> Here's a url for very unscientific poll for the "Best RPG"...
>
> http://www.freevote.com/booth/best_rpg
>
> Traveller is *way* down at the bottom. How about taking a minute
> and go cast a few votes for *our* favorite.
I did as you said, Eris. I "cast a few votes" :) Traveller just surpassed
Paranoia (another fine game, if I do say so myself).
After all, how accurate can this be if Warhammer: Fantasy Roleplay already
has 302 votes :) It isn't even a Hugo award winner!
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Political panjandrums prologize pedantic paronomasia.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 18:57:27 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
On Sun, 05 Mar 2000 18:29:20 -0800, James W. Lindsay wrote:
> Perhaps a quote from V&V best sums up why it just isn't profitable for the
> Vilani to veer from the jump-1 mains: "The interstellar expansion of the
> early (Vargr) explorers and merchants met a barrier to trailing-- the
> Windhorn Rift. Stars within the Rift were too far apart to allow easy jump
> travel. Although many courageous efforts were made to cross the Rift, the
> technology of the time was unable to meet the challenge."
Whoop! My point?
Trying to establish a starspanning empire while still only at TL 9 would be
a monumental task indeed. We are all too familiar with exploring space at
TL12+ but have forgotten the many pitfalls of lower tech exploration and
colonization. Were the old jump-1 drives all that dependable when jumping
into empty hexes? Were the computers powerful enough to plan such a route?
Were the ships themselves reliable enough that you'd even want to risk
jumping into empty space?
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Political panjandrums prologize pedantic paronomasia.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 21:04:50 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Let's Vote for Traveller
On 03/05/00 at 06:52 PM, "James W. Lindsay" said:
>On Sun, 05 Mar 2000 20:33:05 -0600, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
>> Here's a url for very unscientific poll for the "Best RPG"...
>>
>> http://www.freevote.com/booth/best_rpg
>>
>> Traveller is *way* down at the bottom. How about taking a minute
>> and go cast a few votes for *our* favorite.
>I did as you said, Eris. I "cast a few votes" :) Traveller just
>surpassed Paranoia (another fine game, if I do say so myself).
There are several fine games down near the bottom that shouldn't be.
>After all, how accurate can this be if Warhammer: Fantasy Roleplay
>already has 302 votes :) It isn't even a Hugo award winner!
Oh, it's *very* inaccurate, but it's just bad form for Traveller to
be down there at the bottom. Don't you agree?
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 21:15:36 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Let's Vote for Traveller
eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
>
> Here's a url for very unscientific poll for the "Best RPG"...
>
> http://www.freevote.com/booth/best_rpg
>
> Traveller is *way* down at the bottom. How about taking a minute
> and go cast a few votes for *our* favorite.
As they say in Chicago:
Vote early and often! Your votes _can_ make a difference.
After all, fan voting got J.R. "Bob" Dobbs listed as Time magazine's
biggest phony/fraud/media manipulator of the 20th century. See the
following URL for the full results (note that no presidents or heads of
state were included):
http://www.time.com/time/time100/phonies/index.html
I wonder what Time magazine's editors thought about that. I doubt that
any of them had _heard_ of "Bob" prior to their call for nominees.
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 21:22:23 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Let's Vote for Traveller
eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
>
> Here's a url for very unscientific poll for the "Best RPG"...
>
> http://www.freevote.com/booth/best_rpg
>
> Traveller is *way* down at the bottom. How about taking a minute
> and go cast a few votes for *our* favorite.
Note that the site will only let you vote so many times per day (I got a
"too many votes today" message).
Luckily, when I go to work tomorrow (as a tutor at Baton Rouge Community
College), I can go to a whole _bunch_ of computers, and vote from each!
HOODY-HOO!
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 22:24:40 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford
Subject: Re: Let's Vote for Traveller
At 08:33 PM 03/05/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>Here's a url for very unscientific poll for the "Best RPG"...
>
>http://www.freevote.com/booth/best_rpg
>
>Traveller is *way* down at the bottom. How about taking a minute
>and go cast a few votes for *our* favorite.
We can fix that! Vote early and vote often, from different email
addresses! Pervert the system! People will play what they *perceive* to
be popular - enhance the perception! Heh, heh. Of course I would never
suggest manipulating the system in so cynical a way...
Bill Rutherford
worj@home.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 21:31:05 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Let's Vote for Traveller
On 03/05/00 at 09:22 PM, Black ICE said:
>> http://www.freevote.com/booth/best_rpg
>> Traveller is *way* down at the bottom. How about taking a minute
>> and go cast a few votes for *our* favorite.
>Note that the site will only let you vote so many times per day (I got a
>"too many votes today" message).
>Luckily, when I go to work tomorrow (as a tutor at Baton Rouge Community
>College), I can go to a whole _bunch_ of computers, and vote from each!
>HOODY-HOO!
Huey P. Long would be *very* proud!
Oh, and Ob Traveller, and changing to another subject... Are we
sure the Vilani even *could* jump to empty hexes for all those
thousands of years? Maybe the ability to use "calabration points"
(even Jump 1 calabration points) was a development that came
hundreds, even thousands, of years after they began spreading out.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 19:39:09 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
In mail you write:
> At 11:58 AM 3/5/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>
>>>Oh, and don't think a government is really going to jump in and subsidize
>>>such a remote colony. They already lose money subsidizing trade on the
>>>The Alaska Highway :)
>
> That's the one that goes north, right?
>
> Gee, whatever could be up arund Prudhoe Bay to attract such interest?
It doesn't *go* to Prudhoe Bay. Nor were the oil deposits known back
when the highway was being built.
It was built *after* Alaska became the *only* part of the US "proper"
to be invaded during WWII. Sure, they only got a couple of islands. But
that was enough to make the military take a hard look at the supply
situation.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 19:26:00 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
In mail you write:
> However, there is an alternative:
> Build a 118dT ship at TL13 with 16dT of each drive.
> Then attaching drop tanks of 32, 40, 51, 65, 82, 104,
> 131, 166, 210dT plus 45dT of onboard fuel allows ELEVEN jumps.
> (nb, this calculation assumes that the tank whose fuel is being
> used does not count towards jump displacement volume.)
Except that drop tanks aren't available at TL 13 (or is this GURPS TL?).
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 19:35:49 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
In mail you write:
>>From: "James W. Lindsay"
>>Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
> ...
>
>>Oh, and don't think a government is really going to jump in and subsidize
>>such a remote colony. They already lose money subsidizing trade on the
>
> The Alaska Highway :)
Sorry, doesn't work. The Alaska Highway was built for *military*
reasons. So that truck convoys could get to Alaska. (Faster than ships,
and not vulnerable to submarines).
Also, once built, the highway was fairly simple to maintain, and
*drasticly* cut supply costs to Alaskan bases.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 19:04:16 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
In mail you write:
> At 09:06 04.03.00, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>
>>>That is one other thing I sometimes ask myself: If you have just jump-2 or
>>>even only jump-1 technology, what hinders you to use several loads of fuel
>>>and effectively make a jump-6 through deep space?
>>
>>Time and risk.
>
> I understand what you mean with "time"
> But "risk"?
If anything goes wrong, and you lose fuel, replacing it isn't likely.
>>>Even if you take into account that cargo space will be more expensive on a
>>>"4 jump-1 ship" than on a regular liner, it sounds to me fairly reasonable
>>>that the colonists will use the latter option. And shortly thereafter, the
>>>Ziru Sirka will claim the world for itself, at least during its initial
>>>phase of expansion.
>>
>>Cargo space will be non-existant. That's another 30% of the ship taken up
>>by fuel.
>
> There will be much less cargo space. But it will exist.
Not necessarily. Depends on the ruleset, and on the layout of the ship.
Remember that ships *built* for this kind of job will be rare (if they
exist at all). That means that they'll have to use fuel bladders or
other modifications to store fuel in in cargo areas. And that means
that you don't get to use *all* the space as fuel tankage. Some of the
tonnage has to go for the fuel bladders or whatever else is keeping the
fuel away from the walls (which aren't designed to be exposed to LH2!).
Also, below a certain point, any "free" cargo space might as well not
exist, simply because you can't stick enough *useful* cargo in there to
matter.
BTW, for a *colonization* effort, you are better off using "staging"
the way polar expeditions used to.
Say you start with 16 ships (most of them tankers):
All 16 make the first jump. They rendezvous and 8 of the tankers top of
the other 8 ships. They then wait for the return trip.
The other 8 ships make the second jump. 4 tankers top off the other 4
ships, and then wait for the return trip.
The 4 ships make the third jump. 2 of them top off the other two ships,
and wait for the return trip.
The 2 ships make the 4th jump, One tops off the other and waits for the
return ship.
The remaining ship makes the 5th jump. After unloading and refueling,
it jumps back.
It then gets refueled from the waiting ship at jump point 4. Both jump back.
They get refueled at jump point 3. And all 4 ships jump to jump point 2.
And so on. It's also possible to set up fuel depots with beacons so the
ships can find them. Assuming the destination has fuel, you can build
up fuel so that the "most expensive" fuel is at the middle depots.
Note that the "mini-fleet" approach is *not* as expensive as it seems.
It gets *more* cargo to the destination than any single ship approach.
And with enough ships, it can get cargo to places that a single ship
*can't* get to.
But other than the initial expeditions, setting up fuel dumps makes
more sense.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 22:45:43 -0500
From: scott brandsgaard
Subject: Re: Let's Vote for Traveller
At 22.24 -0500 03.05.00, Bill Rutherford wrote:
>At 08:33 PM 03/05/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>>Here's a url for very unscientific poll for the "Best RPG"...
>>
>>http://www.freevote.com/booth/best_rpg
>>
>>Traveller is *way* down at the bottom. How about taking a minute
>>and go cast a few votes for *our* favorite.
>
>
>We can fix that! Vote early and vote often, from different email
>addresses! Pervert the system! People will play what they
>*perceive* to be popular - enhance the perception! Heh, heh. Of
>course I would never suggest manipulating the system in so cynical a
>way...
>
>
>Bill Rutherford
>worj@home.com
This poll is more a race to stay ahead. So, vote _fast_ and vote often.
I think it limits votes based on IP address. So if you happen to
dial-in and get a new IP address each time; go vote 5 more times!
Oh yeah, and don't blame me running up your phone bill trying to push
Traveller to the top. (if you have to pay per call) :)
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2007
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Traveller-digest Monday, March 6 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2008
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
RE: Let's Vote for Traveller
Re: Using no ground troops (was Re: Silent firearms...
Re: Using no ground troops (was Re: Silent firearms...
Re: Self-sufficient planets
Re: Let's Vote for Traveller
Re: jump to empty hexes?
Re: Any T4 Ship Requests?
Shi-Kah-Gah
Re: Shi-Kah-Gah
Re: Underwater habitation
Re: Any T4 Ship Requests?
Re: Using no ground troops
Re: Using no ground troops
RE: Your Name In Vilani
RE: jump to empty hexes?
RE: A thought on Prices
Re: Any T4 Ship Requests?
Re: Let's Vote for Traveller
Re: Using no ground troops
Re: jump to empty hexes?
Re: Barretts, et.al...
SV: Your Name In Vilani
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 19:39:10 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: RE: Let's Vote for Traveller
The voting seems to track you by IP address. You can get in 5 votes per IP
before it complains. If you are running Windows, start winipcfg, free the
existing address and get a new one, and there you go, 5 more votes. You
probably can't do this over a dial-up connection.
Or so I have heard.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 19:45:54 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Using no ground troops (was Re: Silent firearms...
In mail you write:
> 2) Send down many (as in at least tens of thousands) of small
> cheap (lively slaved together) warbots. Each one has only two
> directives:
>
> Stun everyone carrying a weapon and then destroy the weapon
>
> Kill anyone who attempt to harm a warbot
>
> If you wish to be somewhat more draconian, have them simply kill
> everyone carrying a weapon.
>
> Define weapons to include not only projective weapons, & lasers,
> but any form of explosive (detected using sniffers)...
Good thing you don't care about public opinion. Heart patients carry
"explosives" (nitroglycerin tablets) which sniffers *can* detect.
Likewise farmers and gardeners will smell of nitrates (fertilizer).
And no, I'm *not* trying to be silly. These are problems that real
world explosives sniffers have to deal with.
> You won't get every weapon this way, but organized resistance will
> collapse.
Or they'll start using weapons your robots can't detect.
> Sure, after you have used such measures you will eventually have
> to send down a new government and law enforcement personnel to
> take charge of the planet, but only after all the fighting is over.
> Such people will will be rulers of the conquered populace, rather
> than soldiers who conquer a planet.
And subject to guerilla tactics.
> Compared to these options, the young men in the mud option
> seems wasteful, foolish, and ultimately less humane (the last being
> of likely consideration to both the Zhodani and possibly the Hivers).
You are *assuming* that your robots will have *removed* resistance,
rather than (at best) *suppressed* it.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 19:51:43 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Using no ground troops (was Re: Silent firearms...
In mail you write:
> At 03:41 PM 3/4/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>
>>Why? Perhaps for the Imperium, which clearly has a very limited
>>understanding of sophont psychology. However, both the Hivers
>>and the Zhodani know much more. Rather than sending anyone
>>down to the planet until it is fully secure you could:
>>
>>Insert subliminal messages in any broadcast communications
>
> And these broadcasts are coming from where?
Orbital transmitters. That's *easy*. And hard to jam.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 19:54:20 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Self-sufficient planets
In mail you write:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Leonard Erickson
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Date: Saturday, March 04, 2000 8:07 PM
> Subject: Self-sufficient planets
>
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>> Incidentally, "self-sufficient planet" is probably illusion, as the
>>> component parts of the planetary economy may be seperated through
>>> selective orbital action. Kill every train, ship and aircraft and
>>> see how self-sufficient it is. People will still live, and you will
>>> not have "total control" but you will exercise a degree of control.
>>
>>On the other hand, any medium population world at "average stellar" TLs
>>is *far* more self-sufficient (or can easily be so) than we are used to
>>thinking about.
>>
>>For one thing, power is likely to be decentralized. Instead of a power
>>grid, houses and buildings will have their own fusion plants. And
>>places that started as a mid TL colony are going to be pretty
>>decentralized in other ways as well.
>>
>>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>
>
> I don't believe in the concept of the self-sufficient planet. It seems that
> if there where a agro world and industrial worlds then the skill set to have
> a fusion plant in ones house will not be in everyone position.
> We've all at least tinkered with building star ships. In that we've find out
> that you need a engineer to start and stop and run the blasted thing. Now
> put this in a normal house whole situation.
There's a matter of scale. Lots of buildings have steam heat. And
*that* requires an Engineer too.
> Even though we all like the idea that we're bright ppl there are some that
> ain't as bright. If running the power plant can be dumbed down for normal
> home use and acceptance then it should be suitable for starships to have
> some Joe walk over and check things out and walk away. The star ship should
> be plug and play as well. Also what about the random factor of Children in
> the house whole? If children can get to guns by accident can you picture a
> child with a fusion reactor? I think this violates the Imperial rules of war
> which clearly prohibit weapons that cause ecological damage in habitable
> atmospheres.
Fusion reactors *don't* go "boom". No matter what happens in David
Weber's books. Worst case is if you've been running it long enough for
neutron production to make some of the interior parts radioactive, and
you open it up and are careless in handling them.
That's worst case for the *people*. For the reactor, worst case is
mananaging (somehow) to grossly destabilize the confinement, then hot
plasma will get sprayed across the inside of the reactor. this stuff is
*thin*. It'll cause some surface damage, but the total heat content is
low, not like a plasma arc.
The reason ships have engineers is because having the reactor shut down
at an inopportune moment can be fatal. In a household reactor, it's
damned annoying. Also, unlike the situation in a ship, if you really
screw up the reactor, you can *walk* to a neighbor and call the
repairman.
Oh yeah, compare the *power output* of a household reactor with that of
a ship. The ship has a reactor producing power at levels comparable to
the sort of power plant utility companies run now Multiple Megawatts on
up. A household uses a few *kilowatts*, peak power demand.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 20:18:30 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Let's Vote for Traveller
...
>After all, how accurate can this be if Warhammer: Fantasy Roleplay already
>has 302 votes :) It isn't even a Hugo award winner!
They started stuffing the ballot box this morning :)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 20:18:39 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: jump to empty hexes?
>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
>Subject: Re: Let's Vote for Traveller
...
>Oh, and Ob Traveller, and changing to another subject... Are we
>sure the Vilani even *could* jump to empty hexes for all those
>thousands of years? Maybe the ability to use "calabration points"
>(even Jump 1 calabration points) was a development that came
>hundreds, even thousands, of years after they began spreading out.
This has come up before re: _Imperium_, where FTL traffic is
restricted to Jump lines of up to ~2 parsecs in length (IIRC).
It would fix a lot of problems in that respect; OTOH, I'm not
real keen on allowing jumps to empty hexes in M:1100, either :)
Steven Hudson
The CT Creed: "There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its Product"
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 20:16:07 -0800
From: "Bruce Macintosh"
Subject: Re: Any T4 Ship Requests?
>Finally, should I include the CUSP stats for Bruce Alan Macintosh's
>Military Combat System as either a separate download, or part of the
>ship USP sheet?
From my standpoint, it would be extremely helpful to include it, so that
someday
when I get back to finishing the project I can have more ready-made ships to
playtest with...
Bruce
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 23:20:11 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Shi-Kah-Gah
<< As they say in Chicago:
Vote early and often! Your votes _can_ make a difference. >>
Well I remember the days when Richard J Daley (senior, not the present modern
interloper) was mayor. Every election Hizzoner would wave his hands and work
another miracle -- the dead would rise from the grave, the mad would become
lucid, and people who had moved to Florida in 1927 would all march to the
polls and vote Democratic.
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 23:33:43 -0500
From: "Josh W. Spencer"
Subject: Re: Shi-Kah-Gah
GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> << As they say in Chicago:
>
> Vote early and often! Your votes _can_ make a difference. >>
>
> Well I remember the days when Richard J Daley (senior, not the present modern
> interloper) was mayor. Every election Hizzoner would wave his hands and work
> another miracle -- the dead would rise from the grave, the mad would become
> lucid, and people who had moved to Florida in 1927 would all march to the
> polls and vote Democratic.
>
> LKW
>
Yep, and that's how JFK got elected! Then eight years later The Whole World
Watched.....:| :|
- --
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)
VILANI ALIAS: Iashir Rekiinikimas Uiagam
Ypsilanti, Michigan, North America, Terra
Sol Subsector, Solomani Rim Sector
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 20:11:00 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Underwater habitation
In mail you write:
> Leonard Erickson wrote,
>>> The single most useful thing so far has
>>> been the observation that (apart from the reversed pressure gradient,
>>> and the presence of gravity) problems are similar for underwater and
>>> space habitats.
>>
>>Actually, the pressure problems are *very* different. One of the big
>>problems with an underwater habitat of any size is that the pressure on
>>the hab changes *significantly* from floor to ceiling. Multi-story habs
>>are even worse.
> [snip explanation, and loads of other problems with equalising interior
> and exterior pressure - many other comments feed back to this]
>
> On the other hand:
>>If you try keeping the habs at surface pressure, any leak will *kill*
>>anybody in the affected compartments unless the water is *really* shallow.
>
> This was what I was thinking of doing, but was probably underestimating
> the severity of a multi-atmosphere rise in pressure compared to
> decompression in a space habitat. I may still go for this given the
> other problems you've outlined.
>
> The UWP is A789653-D, so we have a planet slightly smaller than Terra
> with a dense atmosphere. People will be acclimatised to greater pressure
> and the gravity is probably a little less than 1G, so pressure will
> increase somewhat more slowly than .1 atm/m but from a higher baseline.
> We're probably a bit better off on average, but not by much.
>
> TL13 means superdense exists and is probably in civilian use. I can't
> visualise what this means for building.
>
> How about this: internal pressure of 2-3 atm and multiple shells of
> superdense around the (single-storey) domes and tunnels, with stepped
> increases in the pressure so that a leak in one shell is not
> catastrophic; a shallow shelf or suitable "high ground" to make things
> easier; and horror stories of some disaster from the past to keep people
> on their toes.
Well, as I pointed out to someone in private, the thing is that using
"unpressurized" habitats means that any leak is a major emergency. As
in sound the alarms, everybody scrambles.
In a presurized hab, a leak is a *nuisance*. Something you report to
maintenance.
And pressurizing to 2-3 atm gets you the worst of both worlds. It's
enough that you need *serious* decompression time after being down a
day or two. And it's also enough that all the cooking problems exist.
But since 3 atm is only 30 meters deep, it doesn't really help much.
> Incidentally, what happens to pressure increase once you hit the sea
> bed? Is building 20m below the water any worse than 10m?
As long as water can penetrate the rock it keeps right on building. The
pressure depends on the weight of the water column, not how thick it is.
And if the rock wasn't more or less rigid, the pressure would go up
*faster*, as it is denser than water. Basicly, pressure is the mass of
all the stuff above you.
>>> * Most food being locally-produced aquaculture, with kelp and algae (or
>>> their analogues) as staples and land-grown food being the biggest
>>> luxury.
>>
>>You forgot fish, crabs, sea-slugs, etc.
>
> Actually I forgot to *mention* them, since I put them at a mid-price
> level, like chicken for us surface-dwellers (or at least those of us who
> eat meat).
Kelp and algae aren't all that exciting. Assuming that the folks aren't
stupid and thus don't dump all kinds of crud directly into the water,
you'll have fish swimming by. And lots of seabottom life. Especially in
the shallower waters.
I expect shellfish to be a staple, simply because once you treat the
sewage to kill harmful bacteria and viruses (probably by irradiation
with gamma rays) it makes great feed for clams, oysters and other
"filter feeders". Though they'll problably run it through algae tanks
first.
If they grow anything on the bottom, the crabs and other bottom
dwellers will proliferate too. And for what it's worth, lobsters are
found *quite* deep. :-)
There are a lot of types of seafood that most folks aren't used to. But
they are quite good. Sea cucumber, for instance. So the stuff from land
will definitely be "luxury" like lobster, crab and shrimp for us.
>>> * Possibly a ban on any weapons which could accidentally breach the
>>> domes.
>>
>>And all industrial processes too?
>
> The idea is just to make it less likely someone will damage the dome in
> a moment of hot-headedness. You can't stop people causing deliberate
> damage, nor can you avoid all accidents while performing necessary
> tasks. I guess this is a typical British position; here in the UK ten
> deaths a day is seen as an acceptable cost for the benefits the car
> brings but we severely restrict firearms. Let's not get into that,
> though.
Well, it also makes a difference whether the habs are ambient pressure
or surface pressure. Ambient pressure means that a hole you can stick
your finger thru is about as bad as a busted water pipe at home. A
*major* nuisance, but not life threatening.
Surface pressure means that you are dead if there's a hole that size...
Or if not, it's about on a par with a major gas leak or a fire (as in
opening the door to a room and finding it "fully involved")
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 23:15:07 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Any T4 Ship Requests?
Bruce Macintosh wrote:
>
> >Finally, should I include the CUSP stats for Bruce Alan Macintosh's
> >Military Combat System as either a separate download, or part of the
> >ship USP sheet?
>
> >From my standpoint, it would be extremely helpful to include it, so that
> someday
> when I get back to finishing the project I can have more ready-made ships to
> playtest with...
>
> Bruce
Do I have your permission to place the draft of MCS on my site as a
download?
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 20:52:56 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Using no ground troops
In mail you write:
>>Also, if you equip them with good sensors then they can also hunt
>>down and stun or kill any known rebels, dissidents or anyone else
>>you want out of circulation.
>
> By this time they're probably too busy having good fun with cheap
> anti-robot-missiles, or even enemy AR-`bots. Of course, you can "secure"
> ground behind you, but whether the mop-up groups are human or robotic
> doesn't change much, except that the sophonts are better at discriminating
> between targets. If your military police for anti-partisan suppression are
> going to be robots then you might as well just nerve gas the area (unless
> you have totally awesome AI, and cheap, too - unlikely in the OTU).
Heck, I can think of a few dozen ways of killing warbots using nothing
more than wood, rope and rocks. From hundreds of yards away...
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 20:47:31 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Using no ground troops
In mail you write:
> "Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
>
>> Anyway, you still don't have the planet. And how do you punish the
>> rebels who remain? Sabotage can be very subtle.
>
> Why is this any different whether you use ground troops or tailored
> viruses &/or warbots? In either case, rebels will remain. In most
> cases, you'll need to wait a generation or more before they die off
> and their children cease to care. However, you now hold the
> ground w/o using a single ground soldier. You will need police
> forces, but you would also need them once the soldiers finished
> their conquest.
It's different because it's *far* easier to sustain *hate* against
"faceless monsters" and their robots than against soldiers that you can
see are actually normal human beings.
>> >If you wish to be somewhat more draconian, have them simply kill
>> >everyone carrying a weapon.
>>
>> >Define weapons to include not only projective weapons, & lasers, but
>> >any form of explosive (detected using sniffers)...
>>
>> so they robots will attack fuels stations? Car bombs, you know.
>
> These are the weapons of terrorists and not of soldiers. If all you
> have left is terrorists you send most of the soldiers home since the
> war are over.
*Your* terrorists are *our* "valiant resistance fighters".
>> Hitler thought the fighting was over in 1940. Reprisals much worse
>> than you describe did nothing to stop resistance in both France and
>> later Russia. Even the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto, armed with a single
>> *revolver* took on the SS. Failed, but the act itself shows how hard
>> it is to destroy the human spirit.
>
> They were fighting for their lives. Since you won't be committing
> genocide (that's easy enough to do from orbit) the motivations will
> be rather less extreme. If surrender means death then fighting to
> the last person alive is a reasonable option. If this is not true then
> it simply isn't
The Jews were fighting for their lives. But that doesn't explain the
French Resistance.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 13:12:01 -0800
From: "Antony Farrell"
Subject: RE: Your Name In Vilani
I don't think I like Vilani all that much either.
Anaraniagir Earabiakhn
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 13:12:03 -0800
From: "Antony Farrell"
Subject: RE: jump to empty hexes?
It could be ruled that since the jump drive will precipitate a ship out of
jump space about a 100 diameters from a large mass that a ship could not
emerge into an "empty hex" unless there was a mass large enough to enable
precipitation - if you follow me.
Of course this would technically mean the empty hex was not empty, just that
it had no detected stars in it.
Anaraniagir Earabiakhn (Antony John Farrell, I think!)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 13:12:05 -0800
From: "Antony Farrell"
Subject: RE: A thought on Prices
Looking at the prices of the two air/rafts I posted on my web site so far
(Designed using FFS1) the TL9 Skyreach costs 108,629 Credits and the
essentially similar TL11 Dragonfly costs 87,540 Credits, both with bulk
discounts built in.
If you are interested they can be found by following the links from
http://www.users.bigpond.com/Skaran
I have also done a lot of designs in MT which I am slowly posting to the
site, but I have not yet found by file with the air/raft types of vehicles
in it.
Anaraniagir Earabiakhn
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 23:31:47 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Any T4 Ship Requests?
Bruce Macintosh wrote:
>
> >Finally, should I include the CUSP stats for Bruce Alan Macintosh's
> >Military Combat System as either a separate download, or part of the
> >ship USP sheet?
>
> >From my standpoint, it would be extremely helpful to include it, so that
> someday
> when I get back to finishing the project I can have more ready-made ships to
> playtest with...
BTW, Bruce, please note that AuricTech designs are partially optimized
for MCS. In other words, I took both USP and CUSP ratings into account
in my designs. Where possible, I increased armor and weapons ratings
over USP thresholds, to meet CUSP thresholds, and vice versa.
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 21:26:23 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: Let's Vote for Traveller
On Sun, 05 Mar 2000 21:04:50 -0600, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
> On 03/05/00 at 06:52 PM, "James W. Lindsay" said:
>
> >On Sun, 05 Mar 2000 20:33:05 -0600, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
>
> >> Here's a url for very unscientific poll for the "Best RPG"...
> >>
> >> http://www.freevote.com/booth/best_rpg
> >>
> >> Traveller is *way* down at the bottom. How about taking a minute
> >> and go cast a few votes for *our* favorite.
>
> >I did as you said, Eris. I "cast a few votes" :) Traveller just
> >surpassed Paranoia (another fine game, if I do say so myself).
>
> There are several fine games down near the bottom that shouldn't be.
And "Bunnies & Burrows" is *nowhere* to be seen!
> >After all, how accurate can this be if Warhammer: Fantasy Roleplay
> >already has 302 votes :) It isn't even a Hugo award winner!
>
> Oh, it's *very* inaccurate, but it's just bad form for Traveller to
> be down there at the bottom. Don't you agree?
That's why I went back and voted a few more times. Didn't know that I
could vote "five times per day" ;)
Ah, now that's better. I see Traveller is up to 117 now (up from 38 a few
hours ago). During that time, Warhammer: FRP has only increased by 7 :)
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Political panjandrums prologize pedantic paronomasia.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 21:28:34 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: Using no ground troops
On Sun, 5 Mar 2000 20:52:56 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> In mail you write:
>
> >>Also, if you equip them with good sensors then they can also hunt
> >>down and stun or kill any known rebels, dissidents or anyone else
> >>you want out of circulation.
> >
> > By this time they're probably too busy having good fun with cheap
> > anti-robot-missiles, or even enemy AR-`bots. Of course, you can "secure"
> > ground behind you, but whether the mop-up groups are human or robotic
> > doesn't change much, except that the sophonts are better at discriminating
> > between targets. If your military police for anti-partisan suppression are
> > going to be robots then you might as well just nerve gas the area (unless
> > you have totally awesome AI, and cheap, too - unlikely in the OTU).
>
> Heck, I can think of a few dozen ways of killing warbots using nothing
> more than wood, rope and rocks. From hundreds of yards away...
First you make friends with the little fuzzy native alien lifeforms...
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Political panjandrums prologize pedantic paronomasia.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 21:35:52 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: jump to empty hexes?
On Mon, 6 Mar 2000 13:12:03 -0800, Antony Farrell wrote:
> It could be ruled that since the jump drive will precipitate a ship out of
> jump space about a 100 diameters from a large mass that a ship could not
> emerge into an "empty hex" unless there was a mass large enough to enable
> precipitation - if you follow me.
I like Eris' idea: that being that choosing empty hexes for jump
destinations was impossible until more research could be done. Like I've
said before, we've spent so much time in our comfy TL12+ Traveller eras
that we don't quickly grasp what life/tech/etc. must have been like back in
the good old TL9 days.
Of course, jumps into empty space is canon. Not all the deep space jump
points are supposedly based on rogue celestial bodies. How else can you
jump out to the Oort Cloud (mentioned in canon, IIRC)?
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Political panjandrums prologize pedantic paronomasia.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 21:41:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Cook
Subject: Re: Barretts, et.al...
Douglas E. "No SH*T! There I was..." Berry
rites:
> At 08:26 PM 3/4/2000 EST, you wrote:
> >In the Gulf War the SEALS used the Barnett .50 rifle....
>
> They have my sympathies.
Whine, whine, whine! If God hadn't meant for us to fire Barretts,
he wouldn't have given us two shoulders. (BTW, on a Barrett sniper
team, it's the spotters job to stick his index fingers in the shooters
ears, just before the shooter pulls the trigger. The spotter's job
doesn't require being able to hear.)
- Mark C.
Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy
EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75
Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR
NRA (Life), GOA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)
Front Sight First Family member #1
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
mark f. cook * shoestring graphics & printing * markc@ssgfx.com
7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330 * http://www.ssgfx.com
Phone: 541-745-5709 Fax: 541-745-5818
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 06:54:09 +0100
From: "Carl Roger Nilsen"
Subject: SV: Your Name In Vilani
>Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 21:05:21 -0600
>From: Rob Eaglestone
>Subject: Your Name In Vilani
>
>Line 1:
> Write your first name,
> followed by your last name backwards,
> followed by your middle [or first] name (forwards).
carlneslinroger
>
>Line 2:
> Truncate if you think there are waaaay too many letters.
naah
:)
>
>Line 3:
> Convert diphthongs:
> ae -> e ai -> ii ao -> uu au -> aa ay -> e
> ea -> i ee -> ii ei -> e eo -> i eu -> u ey ->
>ii
> ia -> a ie -> e io -> o iu -> u
> oa -> ua oe -> e oi -> i oo -> uu ou -> uu oy ->
>i
> ua -> ua ue -> u ui -> ii uo -> ua uy ->
>ii
carlneslinroger
>
>Line 4:
> Replace 'ch' with 'sh'.
> Replace 'c' with 'k'.
> Replace 'f' with 'b'.
> Replace 'h' with 'kh' (unless it's in an sh or gh)
> Replace 'j' with 'ii'.
> Replace 'l' with one of ('ag', 'ir', 'uk', 'aag', 'iir')
> Replace 'o' with 'aa'.
> Replace 'p' with 'm'.
> Replace 'q' with 'k'.
> Replace 's' with 'shir' or 'sir'.
> Replace 't' with 'r'
> Replace 'u', 'v', and 'w' with 'uu' or 'u'.
> Replace 'x' with 'kash'.
> Replace 'y' with 'ii'.
karagneshiraaginraager
karukneshiraaginraager
>
>Line 5:
> Replace any double consonant with ('ii', 'i', 'aa', or 'a') +
>consonant
> Separate consonants (except for kh, sh, and rk/rkh) with 'a', 'e',
>'i', 'ii', 'uu', or 'aa'.
karagineshiraaginuuraager
karukaneshiraagineraager
> Reduce all diphthongs to one of (a, e, i, ii, uu, aa).
>
>Line 6:
> If you want, you can break up the word into a family + given name.
> Or not.
Karaginesh Iraaginuuraager
aka
Karukane Shiraagineraager
and his girlfriend
Taariinuudaraa Shireriramare
and his associate
Rubeneshirki Rukekashanider
(Ruben apparently went through the process relatively unharmed) :(
Now getting those official names changes. :)
Carl Roger Nilsen
"Never overlook something that seems to be simple"
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2008
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Traveller-digest Monday, March 6 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2009
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Barretts, et.al...
Re: Silent Firearms...
Re: jump to empty hexes?
Re: jump to empty hexes?
RE: Let's Vote for Traveller
Noisy Grenades (was: Re: Silent Firearms...)
Re: Shi-Kah-Gah
Re: Noisy Grenades (was: Re: Silent Firearms...)
Re: Re: Let's Vote for Traveller
Re Ban DiHydrogen Monoxide
Re: Silent firearms...
[none]
Re: Interstellar Democracies in YTU
TNE stuff for sale?
Re Rift Crossing
There's gotta be an ObTrav here...
Cool Deck Plan Software
Re Alaska Highway
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 00:07:24 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Barretts, et.al...
Mark Cook wrote:
>
> Douglas E. "No SH*T! There I was..." Berry
> rites:
>
> > At 08:26 PM 3/4/2000 EST, you wrote:
> > >In the Gulf War the SEALS used the Barnett .50 rifle....
> >
> > They have my sympathies.
>
> Whine, whine, whine! If God hadn't meant for us to fire Barretts,
> he wouldn't have given us two shoulders. (BTW, on a Barrett sniper
> team, it's the spotters job to stick his index fingers in the shooters
> ears, just before the shooter pulls the trigger. The spotter's job
> doesn't require being able to hear.)
Two points:
1. Stats for the Barrett .50 were included in Twilight: 2000.
Obviously, this is a sign from the gods of war that we were _meant_ to
use it!
2. If you don't want to feel the recoil of a Barrett, just hold the
stock about 1"-2" in front of your shoulder. That way, you'll have some
distance between your shoulder and the nasty recoil....
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 16:13:05 +1000
From: "The Roc"
Subject: Re: Silent Firearms...
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Douglas E. Berry
To:
Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2000 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: Silent firearms...
> At 07:50 PM 3/4/2000 EST, you wrote:
>
> >Doug; here's several questions for you since I never handled a grenade
> before:
Hope you don't mind me jumping in here...
> >
> >1) Which is easier to throw; a stick grenade, or a "pineapple" style
grenade?
>
> Never threw a stick. The M-26 is called the baseball. The old pineapple
> style was a fat cylinder.
I used to throw the "ball-shaped" ones in Oz, but the instructor was asked
just this question once and another bloke (also an instructor) answered
with, "I have thrown a 'stick grenade' and found it the be easier. I wish
Australia had them in service."
Why we didn't couldn't be answered with surity (any Aussie/kiwi troopies
have an answer to this?), but the theory was that politically, "baddies" use
them - I believe (but may be mistaken) that the Soviets and Chinese used
them, and terrorists supplied by those countries - and therefore, the image
wasn't good, and possibly because the weight of the explosive compound was
reduced to compensate for the added weight of the handle - or something to
that effect? (if I wasn't so busy, I'd get the bookso ut and check on
respective weights).
>
> >2) Do you think Americans have an advantage with grenades
>
> >3) Since the English play Cricket, and their pitch is very different from
a
> >baseball pitch or throw; is their grenade throwing different?
>
>From what I've seen of cricket, I doubt that the cricket movement is used.
Cricketers "bowl" and it involves a run of several metres before the release
of the ball... no, that method isn't practical for throwing grenades :)
> You want that grenade to arch away. I should be specific, they didn't want
> me to pitch that grenade, they wanted me to throw it like I was making a
> play from the outfield. A long, straight throw.
For want of a better description, this one certainly covers how Aussies use
grenades from my experiences.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 00:09:10 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: jump to empty hexes?
On 03/05/00 at 08:18 PM, shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson) said:
> It would fix a lot of problems in that respect; OTOH, I'm not real keen
>on allowing jumps to empty hexes in M:1100, either :)
Me neither, I like the astrography to have the effect of channeling
traffic. However, there was an interesting suggestion the other
day that jumping to an empty hex might be possible, just much more
difficult (and dangerous). Perhaps, it *could* be done, but the
chance of a misjump drasticly increases if you jump to an "empty"
hex? This leaves it open for possible use, but makes it something
that isn't commonly done.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 00:12:03 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: jump to empty hexes?
On 03/05/00 at 09:35 PM, "James W. Lindsay" said:
>Of course, jumps into empty space is canon. Not all the deep space jump
>points are supposedly based on rogue celestial bodies. How else can you
>jump out to the Oort Cloud (mentioned in canon, IIRC)?
You know how *I* feel about canon. But I agree, it probably
should be *possible*, I'm just coming to the conclusion that it is
difficult and dangerous. Just how difficult and dangerous we could
talk about....
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 00:26:27 -0600 (CST)
From: houstonshocky@webtv.net
Subject: RE: Let's Vote for Traveller
If you "Erase" your cookies after you get the maximum votes, you can
continue to vote
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 01:01:43 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Noisy Grenades (was: Re: Silent Firearms...)
The Roc wrote:
>
<>
>
> > >
> > >1) Which is easier to throw; a stick grenade, or a "pineapple" style
> grenade?
> >
> > Never threw a stick. The M-26 is called the baseball. The old pineapple
> > style was a fat cylinder.
>
> I used to throw the "ball-shaped" ones in Oz, but the instructor was asked
> just this question once and another bloke (also an instructor) answered
> with, "I have thrown a 'stick grenade' and found it the be easier. I wish
> Australia had them in service."
>
> Why we didn't couldn't be answered with surity (any Aussie/kiwi troopies
> have an answer to this?), but the theory was that politically, "baddies" use
> them - I believe (but may be mistaken) that the Soviets and Chinese used
> them, and terrorists supplied by those countries - and therefore, the image
> wasn't good, and possibly because the weight of the explosive compound was
> reduced to compensate for the added weight of the handle - or something to
> that effect? (if I wasn't so busy, I'd get the bookso ut and check on
> respective weights).
**Note: The following observations are based on a REMF's recollection
of basic training**
I would expect, having seen both stick grenades and current (M67)
American "baseball" grenades, that the best argument against using stick
grenades is that the increased (mostly harmless) volume of a stick
grenade means that a soldier so equipped can carry fewer grenades,
compared to a soldier equipped with "baseball" grenades. A stick
grenade has about twice the volume, and typically about half the
lethality, of a "baseball" grenade. A soldier can throw a stick grenade
farther, but it won't do as much when it gets there.
Also, grenade configuration depends upon intended use. While I don't
know about Australian practice, American hand grenade doctrine seems to
revolve around two uses:
1. Grenades thrown from defensive positions at attacking enemy troops.
For this use, thrown distance is not as important a factor (the grenade
thrower is within a fighting position of some sort) as lethality to the
exposed enemy troops.
2. Grenades tossed into enemy defensive positions, through firing slits
and the like. Again, lethality is more important than throwing range in
this case, since the demonstrated method of employment involves getting
next to the firing slit of an enemy position (from the side), pulling
the pin and releasing the spoon of a grenade, waiting 2-3 seconds
(grenades have 4-5 second fuses), _then_ chucking the grenade through
the firing slit.
Note that American doctrine doesn't seem to emphasize throwing grenades
a long distance (we have plenty of other fire support weapons for this
function). Other nations, with different equipment mixes, may well have
a doctrinal requirement for a grenade that can be thrown farther than a
"baseball" grenade. For such forces, the volume/lethality/throwing
range tradeoff may favor stick grenades. YMMV.
<>
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 02:13:51 -0500
From: "Daniel Phelps"
Subject: Re: Shi-Kah-Gah
- -----Original Message-----
From: Josh W. Spencer
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: Sunday, March 05, 2000 11:35 PM
Subject: Re: Shi-Kah-Gah
>GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
>
>> << As they say in Chicago:
>>
>> Vote early and often! Your votes _can_ make a difference. >>
>>
>> Well I remember the days when Richard J Daley (senior, not the present
modern
>> interloper) was mayor. Every election Hizzoner would wave his hands and
work
>> another miracle -- the dead would rise from the grave, the mad would
become
>> lucid, and people who had moved to Florida in 1927 would all march to the
>> polls and vote Democratic.
>>
>> LKW
>>
>Yep, and that's how JFK got elected! Then eight years later The Whole World
>Watched.....:| :|
>
Read an interesting story re that. During that convention's protests a
Chicago cop comes up to a fellow and demands his name. Said fellow replies
in an Engish accent "Winston Churchill" . Chicago cop proceeds to pound the
crap out of said smart ass who turned out to be Winston Churchill's
grandson, Winston Churchill III(?). He was reporting on the event as a
journalist for the English press.
Dan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 17:40:58 +1000
From: "The Roc"
Subject: Re: Noisy Grenades (was: Re: Silent Firearms...)
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Black ICE
To:
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2000 5:01 PM
Subject: Noisy Grenades (was: Re: Silent Firearms)...
>
> Note that American doctrine doesn't seem to emphasize throwing grenades
> a long distance (we have plenty of other fire support weapons for this
> function). Other nations, with different equipment mixes, may well have
> a doctrinal requirement for a grenade that can be thrown farther than a
> "baseball" grenade. For such forces, the volume/lethality/throwing
> range tradeoff may favor stick grenades. YMMV.
>
Australian doctrine seemed to emphasise the destruction of enemy cardboard
boxes or garbage bins (I kid you not...) as these were often placed on the
grenade range and you had to "lob the prick" (the grenade, pardon the
language - it was the actual instruction terminology at the time... and if I
were to write "pr*ck" or the like, I'm sure the exact same meaning would
come across, hiding nothing?) as close to them as possible. Often, these
pieces of high-tech enemy equipment (owned by some mob called the
"Saturnians" or "Saltarians" or the like... this may have changed in the
last 20 or so years?) would be represented by a circle drawn on the ground
:)
- -- The Roc
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 02:01:58 -0600
From: John Littleton
Subject: Re: Re: Let's Vote for Traveller
eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
>Oh, and Ob Traveller, and changing to another subject... Are we
>sure the Vilani even *could* jump to empty hexes for all those
>thousands of years? Maybe the ability to use "calabration points"
>(even Jump 1 calabration points) was a development that came
>hundreds, even thousands, of years after they began spreading out.
Does anyone have a canon source for these "calibration points"? I guess
somewhere along the line I heard of them and assumed this was a normal
jump-drive capability, but I'm curious as to where the idea originated.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 22:38:21 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Ban DiHydrogen Monoxide
>In mail you write:
>
>> Sorry, but I'm rather addicted to the stuff... have been since before
>> birth. Have very funny withdraws when deprived of it....
>
>Just be careful. I got a borderline OD once and it *isn't* fun. (No, I
>*don't* mean drowning, look up "water intoxication" if you are curious).
Been there, done that. You can screw up your electrolytes with too little
or too much...
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis ICQ:14640742 ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 22:50:08 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re: Silent firearms...
>>I remember an acquaintance talking about the time in 'Nam his patrol
>>got pinned down on a hill, with a bunch of NVA on the oppisite hill
>>firing at them and trying to advance down into the "valley" between
>>them.
>>
>>He called for fire support. No gunships or planes nearby. Somebody said
>>"Wait minute, I've got an idea.." He got passed to somebody over a
>>lousirer than usual link and gave the co-ordinates. "Ok, it's on the
>>way". And he waited. And waited... And then, as he put it, "... the
>>entire hill blew up!" When the dust cleard, much of the hill was
>>*gone*.
>>
>>Seems they'd patched him thru to the New Jersey, which dropped an
>>entire broadside on that poor little hill...
>>
>>- --
>
> Either this happened a LOT or it's the most common Vietnam War
>Urban Legend, as I've heard it from several different sources. As it's
>always "a buddy" I suspect the latter...
>
>GC
I've talked with a navy chief who was aboard, and was on the CIC for at
least 4 fire support calls to various hills.
I've also talked with several ex-marines who recieved firesupport from
various naval commands. Including CVA's sitting in the gulf. The naval
prescence was a valid (if inconsistantly used) set of mission-platforms.
Keep in mind, the Jersey can throw a shell at least 27 miles accurately...
those are the unclassified data. Accurately means putting a roughly 1-2 ton
projectile into an area 10m x 10m.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis ICQ:14640742 ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 23:05:39 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: [none]
>> I suppose this makes sense when Europeans are used to paying for internet
>> connect time *per minute*. How do you pay for ISDN or other high speed
>> telephone line access?
>
>Same way they pall for *all* calls. At so many "units" per minute.
>
>As you'll discover in the telecom groups (and in Fidonet's
>international echoes) folks outside the US and Canada have *real*
>trouble grasping the way we pay for phone service here. They just don't
>"get" the idea of unlimited local calling for a fixed monthly rate.
>
And local can vary widely: In Detroit (MI), calling the next township is a
toll call, and townships start every few (single digit) miles; In fairbanks
(AK), my travelling companion made a 355 NM distance "Local" call; From
healy to fox is about 80 Miles... and both are local to each other and to
fairbanks (which sits between them). I've made calls from Eklutna to
Girdwood, some nearly 100 road miles distance, and it also was a "free"
local call, but you had to have a phone which you could make toll-calls
on....
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis ICQ:14640742 ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 12:51:39 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley"
Subject: Re: Interstellar Democracies in YTU
> From: Ingo Heinscher
> >More to the point, the other European powers' governments wanted the
> >changes the revolutionaries had made reversed, and to have it
demonstrated
> >that successful revolution was "impossible", and that History Had Ended.
> >That is the sense in which the revolution, rather than merely the
> >revolutionaries, could survive, or be destroyed. The other thing, of
> >course, is that "the revolutionaries" were not just some bunch of
radical
> >lawyers in Paris, but were also millions and millions of peasants who
had
> >seized land from their landlords, and millions of urban sans-culottes,
and
> >so on.
>
> Do you think that people like Robespierre and his Mountain party
primarily
> had the well-being of those peasants in mind when they started their
> slaughter?
>
> I'm not an expert of that period, but somehow I doubt it.
They were nationalists. They had the well-being of "the nation" in mind, I
suspect.
But that misses the point. A lot of the song-and-dance act about the evil
Terror ultimately comes from conservatives frightened that the rabble will
chop them too, one day. It misses that it was a response to - a defensive
measure against - the White Terror, and to foreign invasion.
(I've got a brief outline of the sequence of events handy. I'll send it to
you directly, so you don't even have to get out of your seat!)
> >I think very few people would disagree that peaceful change is better.
The
> >problem is it isn't always an option. In fact, it's usually not an
option,
> >if the changes are to be more than cosmetic.
>
> Well, I admit, it looks harder to achieve than just killing the king (or,
> to be ObTrav, the Emperor), but you have one great adavantage: If you are
> smart, not even your worst enemy (that is, the Emperor...) can claim you
to
> be hostile or a terrorist.
Snicker. Chuckle.
I mean: seriously.
Umm. Perhaps they lie? Perhaps they "discover" that explosives cache you
didn't know you had. Perhaps they "discover" that you engage in various
socially unacceptable activities that you don't recall. Perhaps...
> The point is that any revolution only makes
> sense if the majority of people are dissatisfied for some reason and want
> situation to improve for them. You don't need to kill the king. You just
> have to crush his base of power, that is, the loyalty of his followers.
If
> his regime is maintained by fear, show that there is nothing to be
feared.
> If its maintained by the love of all people for the "great leader",
though,
> you have a problem. Good PR is required here.
> Force might work or might not. Just as the non-violent approach.
>
> ;-) Look at the Ine Givar. Over century of hard terrorist's work and
still
> nothing achieved.
Terrorism is a pretty lousy (inefficient) way of doing things. Of course,
the line between "terrorism" and guerilla warfare is pretty much invisible.
Generally speaking, the movements that win are those that mobilise lots and
lots of people to support them. Movements that prioritise their military
aspects over this tend to lose. See: lots of rebel movements over the
last few decades. In particular, take a look at the IRA, and, I guess, the
European terrorist movements of the '70s (Red Army Faction, etc).
Actually, the Ine Givar play a significant role in my (main, orthodox)
game. They are split between the "politicals" and the "terrorists". The
"politicals" are saner, and more successful, but the "terrorists" tend to
get most of the bucks, particularly from the Sword Worlds.
The "politicals" aka "the Regina faction" mostly engage in propaganda and
agitation work, but also engage in military struggles and uprisings when it
is appropriate. They also have a bitter feud going with the Rule of Terra,
Superioriti, and other idiots like this.
_Some_ of the "terrorists" are a bit soft on the Solomani supremacists, as
a result of their Sword Worlder sympathies. Despite this, the Zhodani also
tend to support these factions, as the Regina faction are a little too
independently minded, and aren't particularly enthusiastic about Psionic
Oligarchy as a form of government.
> I think the primary quetsion of any political move must be: "What _are_
> your goals?" If it is, for example, preventing the Nazi army from
> conquering Europe, well, that is one thing you won't discuss out of their
> heads, I'd say, but shoot.
>
> But if you are part of a relatively stable, say, interstellar state, and
> just want to be the injustice and corruption to be abolished, PR is the
> way, because if you kill some two hundred of the Imperium's elite, others
> will follow them in their offices, celebrate them as martyrs and glorify
> the entire system, as it survived this "develish attack by some terrorist
> madmen".
See my above comments on the Ine Givar.
PR (that is, propaganda) doesn't bring down governments by itself, nor does
it convince them to voluntarily change their ways. Even when it appears
to, there is usually something else - organisation, and the threat of mass
revolt - behind it.
> And all gouverning systems
> are at last built on the people that are gouverned, that is primarily,
> whose actions actually feed the system.(In an agricultural, that is the
> peasants, in an industrial age society, it's the labourers, in
onformation
> age societies, it must be the knowledge workers, etc) It is they who
must
> be on your side, and then your change is _almost_ automatic. (There'll be
> still a lot of work to do, of course, but killing or destruction
shouldn't
> be part of it.)
Ah. Well here is the difference in our opinions. Any fairly stable
government will have a support base that will stand by it even when the
majority of the members of society turn against it. Even if that is
small, there will be a possibility of raising some kind of army, or just a
pack of gunmen, to terrorise and destroy those who oppose the government.
In many cases, of course, that "pack of gunmen" will be the state's army
and police forces themselves. (See the Spanish Civil War, or just about
anywhere that has had a military coup.) In other cases, the gunmen will
come from outside the state apparatus. (You can think of an example or two
of this, I suspect...)
The killing and destruction is not usually something initiated by the
rebels - usually it's initiated by the defenders of the status quo.
> >The Hiver economy is a bit odd. The Gurvin certainly have a market
> >economy, and they are the economic specialists in the Hive Federation,
just
> >as the Ithklur are the planetary warfare specialists, so the "Hiver"
> >economy pretty much is the Gurvin economy. But the Hivers themselves
don't
> >use money within their own nests. "Hivers & Ithklur" (TNE) has some
more
> >on this.
>
> I don't own that, and from what I read about the "silly Era" (which is a
> silly nickname, BTW), I won't buy it.
>
> But as an interstellar empire, the Hivers have a market economy, haven't
they?
Basically.
There's a GT aliens book (AR3?) coming out that will be covering the
Hivers, I gather.
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 00:46:27 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: TNE stuff for sale?
> Web Site location: http://www.titangames.com/
...
>M=Mint - looks like it's right from the printer's
...
> Chaosium:
> (Ringworld)
> Ringworld Set (2501-X) (no box)[$54, NM]
...
> Game Designer's Workshop:
> (Traveller: The New Era)
> Traveller: The New Era Rulebook (softbound) (300) [$21, M]
> Smash & Grab (305) [$10, M]
> Players' Forms (306) [$8, M]
> Battle Rider Boxed Set (308) [$26, Boxed-N]
> Path of Tears, Star Viking Sourcebook (309) [$16, M]
> Reformation Coalition Equipment Guide (310) [$16, M]
> World Tamer's Handbook (311) [$16, M]
> Striker II, Miniature Warfare in the Far Future (313) [$21, M]
> Keepers of the Flame, The Regency Sourcebook (314) [$19, M]
> Star Vikings, Personalities of the Reformation Coalition (315)
[$16, M]
> Aliens of the Rim, Hivers and Ithklur (318) [$18, M]
> Regency Combat Vehicle Guide (320) [$18, M]
> The Guilded Lilly (330) [$14, M]
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 23:45:46 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Rift Crossing
>> From HG2;
>>
>>J-drive 1 9% hull volume
>>M-Drive 1 7% hull volume
>>Power Plant 1 between 1% (TL15) and 3% (TL12)
>>Bridge 2% or 20 dT
>>Fuel 80% (8 x J1)
>>
For J1, MT matches nicely, but you'll have room for a bunk or two, as the
bridge doesn't exist (But the comps will eat space). But you forgot the PP
Fuel...
Here's an MT "Express"
TL9
J1: 2% Hull Vol 2 Td 0 MW
M1: 2% HV 2 Td 130 MW
PP:150, @6/Kl 25kl 1.852 Td [150 MW]
PPFuel (0.075/hr, 72D) 9.6 Td 0 MW 129.6Kl
3xModel1/bis @2Kl 0.444 Td 0.009 MW
BLS, ELS, BEnv 0.058 5.8 Td 5.4 MW
200 Comp Linked Panels 0.148 Td 0.1 MW
2 Small Stateroom 4 Td 0.004 MW
7xJ1 Fuel 70 Td 0 MW
Turret (Trip Msl) 1 Td 0 MW
2x Airlock 0.445 Td 0.004 MW
Cargo 2.711 Td 0 MW
Note: Figures rounded to nearest .001 Td, but some slop applied upward in
the AL's, so call it 2.7 Td Cargo. CP based upon needing 20 MCr worth, or
1800,or 150 panels at 0.8 cp each.Cozy, 0-G, and not a fun ride. But she's
armed, TL 9, and well overpowered.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis ICQ:14640742 ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 01:06:37 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: There's gotta be an ObTrav here...
Some of you guys should just _love_ this:
http://ot810.web.worldonline.cz/
Trafficking stuff like this could prove amusing IYTU :>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 08:30:09 +1100
From: "Karen and Michael Hughes"
Subject: Cool Deck Plan Software
Hey dude,
What's a good piece of Software to use to draw deck plans, preferably free
or in Office?
- - Michael
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 00:43:49 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Alaska Highway
>>>>The Alaska Highway :)
>>
>>That's the one that goes north, right?
Nope. The Parks and Richardson Highways run north, but neither to Prudoe
Bay nor Barrow. There is a private road that went in in the 70's north to
the "North Slope" (The North Slope Haul Road). The Alaska Highway runs to
Canada...
The Richardson predates WWII.
>>
>>Gee, whatever could be up arund Prudhoe Bay to attract such interest?
>
> At the time, SFA. And while the road provides great support for the
>pipe-line building & related oil projects of the `60's & `70's, it was
>allegedly built for the military purposes of the early `40's. And the
>oil industry relies on tankers, of course; sober crew cost extra :)
Until the pipeline, the North Slope was not an issue. The Haul Road was put
in to support the drilling which fed the pipeline. Oil only became an
industry her in the colony known as the state of Alaska in the 1970's. The
richardson Highway was put in in the 1940's to connect Fairbanks (A mining
town) to the southern coast; prior to that, Nenana (an inland
summer-navigable river port) was the primary port for fairbanks; the
railroad connected in 191_... Anchorage was originally a railcamp on the
Seward to Fairbanks route. Fairbanks has been a major army basing center
from about 1900 to 1998: Fort Wainwright, Fort Greely, and Camp Eilson (Now
Eilson AFB, and it's pronounced Isle-son), plus the infamous Camp Frostbite
(Yes, it's real, I've even been there. Once.).
The bases were put near the population centers. To protect the coal and
gold resources. Usibelli Coal Mine is still a major source of coal. There
are also copper mines. Fairbanks is a VERY low grade uranium deposit...
3-5x normal bacground is typical....
Alaska got most of it's long-range roads (Along the Richardson, Fairbanks
is 425mi; by the parks it's 390 or so... I just travelled there this
weekend) courtesy of the US army. Now, the state has managed to widen most
of them. And surface most of them. (But the Haul road is only open about
3-4 months per year, and is never open to the public.)
Ob Trav: The distant colonies will only get infrastructure as developable
resources become available or at least exploitable, and the costs of
shipping do not exceed the price climb from rarity in the main body of the
government's turf.
In other words, if you can get it locally in sufficient ammounts to meet
demand, you won't have a colony make it.
Worlds are far too likely to have most non-biological materials in their
own systems for such items to be shipped far. In any few systems you'll
probably find almost all the non-biological resources you could want. So,
trade is either in finished goods (which require industry, a result of a
biological process called sapient life), or other bio-products.
Lets face it, Traveller's various trade systems (Bk2, Bk7/MT/TNE, GT:FT)
have lots of raw materials, and this makes little sense for most
non-organics.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2009
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Traveller-digest Monday, March 6 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2010
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Using no ground troops (longish)
Re: Using no ground troops
Re: Sports and Traveller
Re: Underwater habitats
Re: Using no ground troops
Re: Shi-Kah-Gah
Re: Silent Weapons
re: Underwater Habitats
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
Re: Any T4 Ship Requests?
Re: Using no ground troops
Re: OT: The computer dials every number in an exchange
Re: CT Stellar System Design
Re: jump to empty hexes?
Re: The low jump number question
Re: Jump to empty hexes
Re: Cool Deck Plan Software
Re: Imperial expansion to trailing
Re: Any T4 Ship Requests?
Re: Using no ground troops
Re: Using no ground troops (was Re: Silent firearms...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 02:24:51 -0800
From: sneadj@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: Using no ground troops (longish)
Black ICE wrote:
>Exactly how do you compel anyone to listen?
1) Subliminal message inserted in existing broadcasts
2) Jam various station and broadcast on their frequencies.
> How do you tell from orbit how effective your propaganda is?
See below
>And how do you prevent the dissemination of counter-propaganda
>by the world's leaders?
If you are the Zhodani or the Hivers and you are fighting the
Imperium hen your propaganda and subliminals are much better
than theirs.
>Even if the Zhos have a fine understanding of psychology in
>general, propaganda requires a detailed knowledge of the target
>culture, and feedback from the target audience. Observation from
>orbit is unlikely to provide adequate feedback.
The key difference is that both the Hivers and the Zhodani have an
actual working understanding of sophont psychology, we do not,
and it looks like the Imperium also does not. I believe that effective
propaganda is possible. However, we can't do it.
Heck, the Hivers managed to turn a K'Kree planet into solitude
seeking omnivores in only 5 years (Alien Module 7: Hivers, page
17). Given that doing so is equivalent to turning the US into a
nation of cannibalistic necrophiliacs, getting someone to surrender
using orbitally broadcast propaganda and subliminal messages
should only require a few months. Going this route is way cheaper
and less messy than ground wars. As Vietnam clearly proved,
ground wars can be equally unwinnable.
As far as knowing the target cultures, I imagine the Hivers have
contingency plans for how to manipulate any planet they might ever
be at war with already written down. Wrt the Zhodani, some low
orbit clairvoyance and mind scans will definitely help track how well
the propaganda war is going and allow useful feedback. As I see
it, the only reason the Imperium *isn't* using such tactics is they
for some reason find ground troops more moral or more traditional
than propaganda and subliminal message wars combined with
warbots.
>Once word gets out about your doctrine, resistance will likely
>_increase_, rather than decrease. In WW II, Soviet soldiers
>stopped surrendering to the Germans, once they found out what
>happened to their comrades who had surrendered.
Anyone who surrenders lives. Except with the mind-control gases
option, folks who surrender are even basically untouched by war,
since there are no crazed troops burning their homes or performing
Mei Lai (sp?) massacres in their backyards with their families.
>Since I don't have access to Book 8, I'll reserve comment on the
>warbot army idea, except to say that I doubt that, using Traveller
>tech, one could develop fully autonomous robots that would be
>more cost-effective than living soldiers.
All you really need is warbots which can detect weapons and
target accurately. TL 12 or 13 should do that just fine. I would
imagine the Hivers could easily create such warbots. Make them
master-slave robots (one central robot brain) and they won't even
be that costly.
I'd say the best strategy to both avoid building fanatical resistance
and to allow maximum effectiveness is (one orbit is fully held)
propaganda + subliminal messages + anti-weapon warbots
followed by police and administrators. At first you may end up with
a situation little better than Northern Ireland, but that's a *hell* of a
lot better than an actual ground war, for a fraction of the cost and
the casualties.
> Try asking yourself, "if they did this to _us_, would I give in?"
> You may find the answer is different, when the problem is viewed
> from a first-person perspective.
In a word, hell yes. If you capitulate, you survive. The survival of
me and those I care about is far more important than who's running
the government. Then again nationalism in all forms baffles me.
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 05:48:45 -0500
From: Walt Smith
Subject: Re: Using no ground troops
Leonard Erickson wrote:
>Heck, I can think of a few dozen ways of killing warbots using nothing
>more than wood, rope and rocks. From hundreds of yards away...
As a side benefit, many of these methods will probably be hard for a
robot (or even a telepresence operator) to identify as "weapons" until the
warbot gets a sharpened, metal-tipped telephone pole through it's chassis.
No power packs, no explosives, just springs and gears - and maybe not
even those.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 00:10:12 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Sports and Traveller
In mail you write:
> Black ICE wrote:
>
>> As Doug Berry pointed out, the starship cards on pages 10-11 of IS are
> f****d
>> up like
>> a football bat.
>
> What? Do you know nothing of sports in the 57th century? Oh, sure,
> gravball
> may be the big money sport, but out in The Old Expanses sector there are
> still a
> lot of die-hard fans of the ancient fokitbal teams.
I rather expect some form of J'ai Alai to survive. As far as I know,
it's more or less traceable to games the Mayans played 1000 years ago,
which gives it a better track record than anything other than polo.
I also expect that *somebody* would have tried a 3d, zero-gee version
of it. Which may or may not be an ancestor of grav-ball. Regardless,
it'd be one *nasty* sport.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 01:12:05 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Underwater habitats
In mail you write:
>> * Possibly a ban on any weapons which could accidentally breach the
>> domes.
>
> Not to mention the penalty is probably 'Death by Airlock.' It reminds me
> somewhat of Heinlein's 'The Moon is a harsh Mistress'
Actually, in the real world experiments with underwater habs, when they
had multiple units, folks would often *not bother* with breathing gear
for trips of 50 meters or so. They'd just dive into the pool in the one
hab, and free swim over to the other one.
So dumping someone out the lock isn't much of a punishment.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 03:06:34 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Using no ground troops
In mail you write:
> On Sun, 5 Mar 2000 20:52:56 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> In mail you write:
>>
>> >>Also, if you equip them with good sensors then they can also hunt
>> >>down and stun or kill any known rebels, dissidents or anyone else
>> >>you want out of circulation.
>> >
>> > By this time they're probably too busy having good fun with cheap
>> > anti-robot-missiles, or even enemy AR-`bots. Of course, you can "secure"
>> > ground behind you, but whether the mop-up groups are human or robotic
>> > doesn't change much, except that the sophonts are better at
> discriminating
>> > between targets. If your military police for anti-partisan suppression
> are
>> > going to be robots then you might as well just nerve gas the area (unless
>> > you have totally awesome AI, and cheap, too - unlikely in the OTU).
>>
>> Heck, I can think of a few dozen ways of killing warbots using nothing
>> more than wood, rope and rocks. From hundreds of yards away...
>
> First you make friends with the little fuzzy native alien lifeforms...
Who needs aliens? Make friends with your local medieval re-creationists!
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 03:10:59 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Shi-Kah-Gah
In mail you write:
> << As they say in Chicago:
>
> Vote early and often! Your votes _can_ make a difference. >>
>
> Well I remember the days when Richard J Daley (senior, not the present
> modern
> interloper) was mayor. Every election Hizzoner would wave his hands and work
> another miracle -- the dead would rise from the grave, the mad would become
> lucid, and people who had moved to Florida in 1927 would all march to the
> polls and vote Democratic.
And that reminds me of the fun in on of E.E. Smith's books. At one
point they have a major election. And the bad guys plan to do all that
stuff. Only the good guys first manage a "simultaneous" check of the
voter rolls in every precinct. That eliminates the deaders, the moved
to Florida, etc. Then they have folks at every precinct who
(apparently) know every person on the rolls by sight, which elimiates
the ringers. And they have (off duty) military personnel volunteering
to escort voters past the thugs, etc.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 23:59:41 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Silent Weapons
In mail you write:
> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>>> Heh. Well, we could be realistic and say 'lasers with non-nil
>>> penetration cannot be used in atmosphere due to superheating the
>>> air they pass through', but that's not much fun and isn't entirely
>>> true in any case (it depends on how the beam is focused).
>> Oh, they are *usable*. But the beam path sticks out like a sore thumb.
>
> This has finally forced me to dig out and read my set of TNE rules.
> Apparently TL9 lasers are IR, since their damage halves every 250 meters or
> so, due to interaction with air. TL13 lasers do not significantly interact
> with air, however.
>
> Engineering SWAG:
>
> According to the TNE book, a TL13 (or TL9)laser rifle puts out a pulse of
> 0.04 MJ. Let's suppose that this pulse lasts 1 microsecond. Then the pulse
> volume is about 6e-3 m^3. We are putting 4e4 J into this volume, so we have
> about 7e6 J/m^3. I don't think that this will produce the types of
> plasma-generating effects which are envisioned. That's only about 7 J/cm^3.
Sorry, but according to the articles I've read on real world lasers,
the parameter of interest is Watts/cm^2. That's obtained by dividing
the beam energy by the cross-sectional area. I don't recall the
cricitical value, except that it was in MW/cm^2, and wasn't a big number.
And the article that gave that value had a nice picture of a beam.
Looked like a bad special effect!
Anyway, to start with, a .04 MJ pulse is awfully small to do damage.
But let's proceed. .04 MJ/1usec = 40 GW. So it'll ionize air unless the
beam is *really* spread out.
> I believe that man-portable laser weapon beams can not be seen, although
> they are probably at a visible wavelength at TL13. The best atmospheric
> window seems to be around 0.5 microns, which is visible.
If they reach an "energy density" over 1 MW/cm^2, I'd say they'd
definitely be visible at night. And possibly in the daytime. Beam
lasers being far more visible than pulse lasers. But a rapid series of
pulse from the same position would be likely to give it away.
*Especially* at night.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 06:24:04 -0500
From: Walt Smith
Subject: re: Underwater Habitats
Leonard Erickson wrote:
>Actually, in the real world experiments with underwater habs, when they
>had multiple units, folks would often *not bother* with breathing gear
>for trips of 50 meters or so. They'd just dive into the pool in the one
>hab, and free swim over to the other one.
>
>So dumping someone out the lock isn't much of a punishment.
Try that 50m swim in leg irons.
If an execution technique is as deadly to the people of that culture as
walking down a sidewalk, that culture will use a different technique (or
modify it to make it deadly). Falling three or four feet usually isn't deadly,
falling three or four feet with a rope around your kneck usually is.
Now, falling three or four feet on a planet with the maximum gravity
for human survival...
Hmmm, perhaps a kind of trial by ordeal? Convicted of a capital crime
in an undersea culture, you're kicked out a moon pool X meters from an
air supply, with or without leg irons, straightjacket, whatever. Make it to air,
and your sentence is completed/reduced to exile/whatever.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 11:26:18 +0000
From: Phil Kitching
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>> However, there is an alternative:
>> Build a 118dT ship at TL13 with 16dT of each drive.
>> Then attaching drop tanks of 32, 40, 51, 65, 82, 104,
>> 131, 166, 210dT plus 45dT of onboard fuel allows ELEVEN jumps.
>> (nb, this calculation assumes that the tank whose fuel is being
>> used does not count towards jump displacement volume.)
>
>Except that drop tanks aren't available at TL 13 (or is this GURPS TL?).
Well, it would help if any single Traveller ship design system supported
this statement, instead of being forced to rely on the implications of
a one TNS press release from a corporation with an Imperium wide reputation
for building ships that exit jump in far more pieces than they entered.
Besides, you can achieve ten jumps if you use tanks that are removed at the
destination instead of dropped before jumping.
btw, the Albatross design on my site is a TL12 8pc Jump 3 courier.
Quite easy under FF&S2.
Phil Kitching
- --
http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
"Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 09:20:51 -0400
From: Les_Howie@keane.com
Subject: Re: Any T4 Ship Requests?
Black ICE wrote:
>So, does anybody have any requests for other ships?
I'd like to see a no-compromoses great big honk'n superdreadnaught, just to be
able to provide a baseline on the ultimate in self propelled violence.
Great site! Lots of very useful designs.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 12:11:57 +0000
From: Phil Kitching
Subject: Re: Using no ground troops
sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
>> Hitler thought the fighting was over in 1940. Reprisals much worse
>> than you describe did nothing to stop resistance in both France and
>> later Russia. Even the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto, armed with a single
>> *revolver* took on the SS. Failed, but the act itself shows how hard
>> it is to destroy the human spirit.
>
>They were fighting for their lives. Since you won't be committing
>genocide (that's easy enough to do from orbit) the motivations will
>be rather less extreme. If surrender means death then fighting to
>the last person alive is a reasonable option. If this is not true then
>it simply isn't
IIRC, the Ghetto rising was inspired by the news that the Russians were
coming.
Similarly, the French resistance became a lot stronger after June 6th '44.
Neither would have had any impact on the German occupation if there hadn't
been
10-20 million allied soldiers around.
Phil Kitching
- --
http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
"Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 14:47:31 +0100
From: Holger Kadlez
Subject: Re: OT: The computer dials every number in an exchange
Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
Spacejens:
> Actually, here in Sweden it is always the caller who pays, regardless of
> the type of phone (cellular or normal).
Although here in Germany
> Sounds quite reasonable to me, since I am used to it. ;-)
Same for me, too
> Most European calls, even what we'd consider "local" calls are charged
> in units. Every X amount of time, the counter ticks off a unit. X is
> shorter the farther away the place you are calling is.
Beginning in 98 the telecommunication market in Germany was opened.
That means, other companies were allowed to offer t-services, using
wide variing ways of payment, beginning from the above system (Telekom,
only, is still using that relict. with 12 Pfennig [~6 Cent] per unit.
The length of a unit varies with time of day and distance. Cheapest
telekom-tarif is one unit for 4 minutes, local call at night; so cheapest
access ti the net ist 1.80 DM [~0.9 Dollar] per hour ...)
The other companies usually have a mixture of things like
- - pay per minute,
- - pay per secunde (or number of seconds),
possibly with/out a fixed amount per connection.
Tarifs are variing on a quarterly basis ...
OK, things cooled down by now; somewhat.
The big problem here in Germany is, telekom still owns the local
network; All the above is *not* for local calls, only for cell-phones
or distance calls.
> Anyway, what you get is a bill noting that over the course of the
> month, you've used XX number of units, which amounts to a charge of YY.
> Period. *NO* details.
That changed by now. You can get a detailed listing by now. The last three
digits of every telefon-number are deleted.
> > I suppose this makes sense when Europeans are used to paying for internet
> > connect time *per minute*. How do you pay for ISDN or other high speed
> > telephone line access?
ISDN highspeed ???
Seriously, only Telekom overs ISDN, so it got cheap(er) (in relative
terms). The basic rate is somewhat higher than analog, thge 'running'
(or better: 'talking') costs are the same. Other techniques like ADSL
are truely expensive, but mostly unexplored frontiers.
> Same way they pall for *all* calls. At so many "units" per minute.
>
> As you'll discover in the telecom groups (and in Fidonet's
> international echoes) folks outside the US and Canada have *real*
> trouble grasping the way we pay for phone service here. They just don't
> "get" the idea of unlimited local calling for a fixed monthly rate.
As somebody else put it, we do understand idea, we just
don't get the service.
Bye,
Paradin
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 10:38:56 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: Re: CT Stellar System Design
Leonard Erickson writes:
>>>Do keep in mind the though that since they aren't in the "habitable"
>>>zone, the roll can be considered to be solely for *pressure*, not for
>>>breathability.
>> This is true, and I had considered this table:
>> 1D atm
>> 1 A
>> 2 A
>> 3 A
>> 4 roll normally
>> 5 1D: 1-5 = B, 6 = C
>> 6 1D: 1-3 = D, 4-5 = E, 6 = F
>> For atm A (or B, or C, including on main worlds) pressure could
>> be rolled separately.
>I meant that "normal" would mean same pressure as a normal atmosphere,
>just not breathable. Ditto for thin, very thin, and thick. "Tainted"
>would be kinda irrelevant, until and unless you tried to terraform the
>place.
That's what I took you to mean. I assume that atm A could have a
pressure similar to any atm 2-9. Higher pressure would require
special equipment, perhaps coded as atm B.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 10:45:33 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: Re: jump to empty hexes?
Eris writes:
>Me neither, I like the astrography to have the effect of channeling
>traffic. However, there was an interesting suggestion the other
>day that jumping to an empty hex might be possible, just much more
>difficult (and dangerous). Perhaps, it *could* be done, but the
>chance of a misjump drasticly increases if you jump to an "empty"
>hex? This leaves it open for possible use, but makes it something
>that isn't commonly done.
I also like jumps into empty hexes being possible, but penalized.
My take is that jumps into empty hexes are not a big problem
(they tend to be less accurate, but who cares unless there is a
deep space fuel depot or some such in the "empty" hex), but jumps
out of an empty hex are subject to large errors in arrival
location. This is due to the lack of large masses nearby to
accurately plot the jump from/to. The error for such jumps is
typically a few AU, but sometimes will put you right out of the
target system.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 17:31:24 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen
Subject: Re: The low jump number question
Leonard Erickson writes:
>>However, there is an alternative:
>>Build a 118dT ship at TL13 with 16dT of each drive.
>>Then attaching drop tanks of 32, 40, 51, 65, 82, 104,
>>131, 166, 210dT plus 45dT of onboard fuel allows ELEVEN jumps.
>>(nb, this calculation assumes that the tank whose fuel is being
>>used does not count towards jump displacement volume.)
>
>Except that drop tanks aren't available at TL 13 (or is this GURPS TL?).
They're available at TL 9. They're just not invented until late 11th
Century, so they're not available before the Classic Era (And there are
people who'd like to excise them from the canon completely). Either way,
drop tanks were not an option for the early Vilani expansion.
Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
events based on the individual situation."
_76 Patrons_, p. 8
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 17:46:13 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen
Subject: Re: Jump to empty hexes
Eris writes:
>I like the astrography to have the effect of channeling traffic.
Simple economic effects means that astrography DOES channel traffic,
especially when you only have jump 1 ships.
Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
events based on the individual situation."
_76 Patrons_, p. 8
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 09:52:51 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Cool Deck Plan Software
Mac or PC?
On the PC side, a nice piece of software is:
Mayura Draw, which is $15 shareware
http://www.mayura.com
On the Mac side, hie thee hence to:
http://www.corel.com/draw8mac_le/download.htm
and download Corel Draw LE for the Mac, free (at the cost of a 54 meg
download ...) They sell it on a CD for $19.95, though, unfortunately,
that's to North America only.
Karen and Michael Hughes wrote:
>
> Hey dude,
>
> What's a good piece of Software to use to draw deck plans, preferably free
> or in Office?
>
> - Michael
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 08:53:27 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: Imperial expansion to trailing
On Sun, 05 Mar 2000 16:22:49 +0100, Ingo Heinscher wrote:
> Well, I just doubt that it _is_ cheaper for a planetary gouvernment (or a
> Vilani megacorp) to send their colonists to the other end of Vilani-settled
> space than expanding beyond the border that is right _here_.
Again, you are making the erroneous presumption that *all* new colonies
expeditions-- even those headed far rimward-- originally set out from
Vland.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Mary had a little lamb, a little beef, a little ham.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 07:51:39
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Any T4 Ship Requests?
At 11:15 PM 3/5/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>Bruce Macintosh wrote:
>> >From my standpoint, it would be extremely helpful to include it, so that
>> >someday when I get back to finishing the project I can have more
>> >ready-made ships to playtest with...
>Do I have your permission to place the draft of MCS on my site as a
>download?
Ditto. I'm about to do a major revision of the GridTech pages.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 08:06:52
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Using no ground troops
At 12:11 PM 3/6/2000 +0000, you wrote:
>IIRC, the Ghetto rising was inspired by the news that the Russians were
>coming.
>Similarly, the French resistance became a lot stronger after June 6th '44.
>
>Neither would have had any impact on the German occupation if there hadn't
>been 10-20 million allied soldiers around.
Then take the Russian partisans. Fueled solely by hatred of the Germans,
many of the partisans in the Ukraine in in 1943 were the same folks who had
welcomed the Germans as liberators in 41.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 08:14:48
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Using no ground troops (was Re: Silent firearms...
At 07:45 PM 3/5/2000 PST, you wrote:
>> Compared to these options, the young men in the mud option
>> seems wasteful, foolish, and ultimately less humane (the last being
>> of likely consideration to both the Zhodani and possibly the Hivers).
>
>You are *assuming* that your robots will have *removed* resistance,
>rather than (at best) *suppressed* it.
Really. After the first week, every wepaon will be well hidden, buried on
the farm somewhere, and the resitance will be content to plan.
Another point made by another poster referred to the effectiveness of the
French resitance prior to D-Day. That was a deliberate plan. Scattered
attacks would have been a waste of a valuable resource. The Maquis was
better used as a channel for downed pilots and an intelligence gathering
agency. When the resitance *did* strike, the Germans were shocked by the
size and sophistication of the Resitance.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2010
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Traveller-digest Monday, March 6 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2011
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Underwater habitats
Re: Your Name In Vilani
Let's Vote for Traveller, Once Per Day
Re: Your Name In Vilani
Re: Your Name In Vilani
Re: Corridor and Provence (Re: Traveller Sector Information)
Re: Silent Weapons
Re: Your Name In Vilani
Re: Silent Weapons
Your Name in Vilani & Zhodani
Re: Your Name in Vilani & Zhodani
Re: Sports and Traveller
Re: Your Name in Vilani & Zhodani
Re: Using no ground troops (longish)
So long and thanks for all the fish (and penguins)
Re: jump to empty hexes?
Re: Interstellar Democracies in YTU
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 11:58:05 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: Underwater habitats
In a message dated 3/5/00 3:02:31 PM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
> Everyone seems to be considering *only* deep sea habitats. Just to
> present some alternatives to think about...
Actually I was considering continental shelf habitats at least in part (which
go down to at least 300m IIRC). But it doesn't take long before you need
special air mixes.
I was also presuming bonded superdense (or similar strength material) more
for construction as opposed to steel or titanium.
> Additionally, I can see huge "floating cities", floating not on, but
> a at and just below the surface, sinking lower only to keep them out
> of "bad weather." These underwater could by turn be anchored to the
> ocean floor by cables, float free drifting with tides, or be powered
> moving across the seas in some pattern.
That gets sort of complicated I think and presents other problems.
> Ideas to play with: solar and water temperature differential power,
> large aquiculture farming areas, mineral extraction from sea water,
> artificial gills.
Usefulness varies with tech.
Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 09:01:01 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: Your Name In Vilani
On Sun, 05 Mar 2000 09:53:00 -0800, James W. Lindsay wrote:
> > Line 5:
> > Replace any double consonant with ('ii', 'i', 'aa', or 'a') +
> > consonant
Oops... misread the "+ consonant" part...
> iiamesiriiashirdniaguuaaaen
> ^^
iiamesiriiashirdniaguuaaaren
^^^
(I think)
[snip]
> > Reduce all diphthongs to one of (a, e, i, ii, uu, aa).
>
> This one needs more explaining. Out of the last seven characters above,
> six of them are vowels-- all in a row! Presuming that I can convert these
> six down into three dipthongs using the conversion table in line #3, and
> over and over into just one:
according to the dipthong list above, "uu" and "aa" are not diptongs, and
hense cannot be reduced...
> iamesiriashiradenaiguuaaren
...or...
> Iamesiriashira Denaiguuaaren
My head hurts...
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Mary had a little lamb, a little beef, a little ham.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 11:06:44 -0600
From: Rob Eaglestone
Subject: Let's Vote for Traveller, Once Per Day
Seems like you can place 5 votes *per day*.
That's silly, but it also means we can really
boost the numbers (Traveller tripled since
yesterday).
http://www.freevote.com/booth/best_rpg
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 11:15:22 -0600
From: Rob Eaglestone
Subject: Re: Your Name In Vilani
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
>
> At 11:14 AM 3/5/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>
> >Karishira Nariiririimaalamaarin
> ^^^^
>
> You could probably drop one of those ri's
Oh, no! You wouldn't want to do that! That would
make the otherwise harmless "riiririima" into the
"riiriima" (archaic form "riirima"), which we all
know to be an extremely insulting slur on the Vilani
culture on Shuurdiikha (Vland 2440 C652569-B S Ni Po).
;)
Just kidding. There should be a final rule that
says "edit the output until you're happy with it".
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 10:36:49 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Your Name In Vilani
Rob Eaglestone wrote:
>
> Ah, a lull in work. Here's something to occupy your time.
> How to convolute your name into a Vilani name:
>
> Line 1:
Barukenaashir Khajeduuariid
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 15:42:41 +0000
From: Ewan Quibell
Subject: Re: Corridor and Provence (Re: Traveller Sector Information)
Keith Johnson wrote:
> Very cool. Unfortunately, Corridor isn't listed.
>
> Only place I have found info for Corridor is the map in the Atlas of the
> Imperium, sector map with UWPs in First Survey, and an overhead starchart
> (with fifty different sectors) in Vilani & Vargr.
>
> Immediately coreward of Corridor is Provence. I have found even less
> information for it. The above web page lists "Sector map in Vilani and
> Vargr" for it. Unfortunately, the only detailed map in V&V is for
> Vland. The "overhead starchart" in V&V is nice, but I am curious if there
> is details written up for that sector in a book I don't own. . .
>
> Since I am running a GURPS Trav game that centers on Khukish/Corridor
> (subsector B), any details about those sectors is useful for me.
>
> Is there any other sources of information for Corridor or Provence?
Yes, Travellers Digest 18 has a full sector map and library data, and
the Mega Traveller Journals have living in Corridor under the Vargr, and
a whole scenario on Depot.
Hope this helps
Ewan
- --
Ewan Quibell Their's not to make reply,
Senior Communications Engineer Their's not to reason why,
Computer Centre Their's but to do and die:
University of Brighton Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk Alfred, Lord Tennyson
#include
My spelling is entirely due to dyslexia, typos, and poetic license
University of Brighton - Sunday Times' University of the Year
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 09:46:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: Silent Weapons
Leonard Erickson writes:
> Oh, they are *usable*. But the beam path sticks out like a sore thumb.
No. If the beam energy is high enough to cause significant ionization, the
air suddenly turns almost completely opaque, and then all the remaining beam
energy simply slams into this glowing ball of plasma and heats it up some
more (this could occur at points other than the actual 'barrel' of the weapon,
particularly if you have lasers with a large mirror which focuses to a small
point at the target).
Not sure exactly how much energy it takes to cause that effect, but its
probably in the MJ/cm^2 range, and may vary by an order of magnitude or more
depending on the dust content of the air.
This basically means 'non-nil penetration' in TNE terms at least, at most a
couple centimeters of steel.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 09:16:02
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Your Name In Vilani
At 09:01 AM 3/6/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>> Iamesiriashira Denaiguuaaren
I think that cutting it down to Denaiguaren would keep the spirit of the
thing alive.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 09:51:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: Silent Weapons
Luther Martin writes:
> According to the TNE book, a TL13 (or TL9)laser rifle puts out a pulse of
> 0.04 MJ. Let's suppose that this pulse lasts 1 microsecond. Then the pulse
> volume is about 6e-3 m^3. We are putting 4e4 J into this volume, so we have
> about 7e6 J/m^3. I don't think that this will produce the types of
> plasma-generating effects which are envisioned. That's only about 7 J/cm^3.
7e6 J/M^3 is about 1500 calories/kg, which is easily sufficient to turn air
into plasma (not 100% ionization, of course). In any case, as I recall most
TNE man-portable weapons have penetrations of zero.
Of course, I have no idea where your volume number comes from, as the 'volume'
heated by a laser weapon doesn't have much to do with beam duration.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 12:20:15 -0600
From: Rob Eaglestone
Subject: Your Name in Vilani & Zhodani
By the way, did I mention that the conversion rules
are now on my website?
http://members.home.net/eaglestone
Plus, I'm also adding a pre-Beta page for converting
your name into Zhodani (I'm not as sure about it, so
suggestions would be welcome).
- -Rob
Your Name in Zhodani (pre-Beta)
Line 1:
Write your last name
+ your first name, backwards
+ your last name, backwards.
Truncate if necessary.
Line 2:
Shift vowels:
a becomes e
e remains e
i becomes e
o becomes a
u becomes q
Line 3:
Convert diphthongs:
a + any vowel becomes o
ea -> e'a ee -> ia ei -> e'ay eo -> e
o + any vowel becomes o
Line 3:
Convert consonants:
Replace [c or k, but not ch] with Zh
Replace f with v
Replace g with z
Replace h with v [but not with ch, zh, or sh]
Remove any vowel (maybe y too) in front of a letter 'r'.
Replace 'l' + vowel with 'tl' + vowel.
Replace ts with tszh.
Replace [el] with [le].
Replace [st] with [sht].
Replace [rr] with [zhdr].
Replace [sm] with [zmr].
Replace [ms] with [b].
Replace [ns] with [p].
Replace [td] with [tdl].
Replace [dtr] with [dtl].
Replace [tt] with [i].
Line 4:
Separate ec, ef, es, et with an apostrophe.
Line 5:
Add an 's' to a final 'et' or 'ed'.
Add an 'r' or 'l' to a final 't', 'd', 'b', 'f', 'p', or 'v'.
Add an 'nj' to a final vowel, if it's not a diphthong.
Line 6:
Insert word breaks where necessary.
Example 1: Douglas Berry
berrysalguodyrrab
berryselgqadyrreb
bzhdryslezqadzhdreb
bzhdryslezqadzhdrebr
Bzhdryslez Qadzhdrebr
Example 2: Colin Michael
michaelnilocleahcim
michaelnilocleahcim
mechialnelacliahcem
mechialnelazhliahzhem
me'chialne'tlazhtliavzhem
Me'chial Ne'tlazhtliavzhem
Example 3: David Smart
smartdivadtrams
smertdevedtrems
smrtdevedtrems
zmzhdridlevedtleb
zmzhdridlevedtlebr
Zmzhdridl Evedtlebr
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 12:38:12 -0600
From: Stormhound
Subject: Re: Your Name in Vilani & Zhodani
Rob Eaglestone wrote:
> Plus, I'm also adding a pre-Beta page for converting
> your name into Zhodani (I'm not as sure about it, so
> suggestions would be welcome).
And coming up soon from Eaglestone Enterprises: Your Name in English! A
complete, 497-step system for converting your name to an English equivalent
which is completely consistent with modern English spelling and pronunciation.
Or at least as consistent =as= modern English spelling and pronunciation.
(Just kidding, Rob...I really do like your stuff quite a bit.) :)
- --
Stormhound
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 12:49:46 -0600
From: Stormhound
Subject: Re: Sports and Traveller
Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
It's always *so* nice to be appreciated. (g)
> I rather expect some form of J'ai Alai to survive. As far as I know,
> it's more or less traceable to games the Mayans played 1000 years ago,
> which gives it a better track record than anything other than polo.
>
> I also expect that *somebody* would have tried a 3d, zero-gee version
> of it. Which may or may not be an ancestor of grav-ball. Regardless,
> it'd be one *nasty* sport.
No kidding.
Another interesting translation (once the holography tech is sufficient)
would be 3D billiards.
I also suspect that golf will survive; there's just something about
whacking a ball with a stick and then chasing after it that appeals to certain
people. (Of which group, I'll add, I'm a member.) It'd be interesting
watching players adapt to different atmospheres and gravities.
And the WWF will eventually mutate into the IWF, but the less said about
that, the better.
- --
Stormhound
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 14:15:13 -0500
From: Steve Daniels
Subject: Re: Your Name in Vilani & Zhodani
Rob Eaglestone wrote:
> By the way, did I mention that the conversion rules
> are now on my website?
>
> http://members.home.net/eaglestone
>
> Plus, I'm also adding a pre-Beta page for converting
> your name into Zhodani (I'm not as sure about it, so
> suggestions would be welcome).
>
> -Rob
I have some uneasiness about it as well.
Not sure why. Mabye the last name
twice and/or not using a middle name
causes too much similarity to the original
name.
E.G.
Danielssteve Slienad
Denialseve'tszh Shtlianeds
bloo
(btlonj)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 13:34:20 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Using no ground troops (longish)
sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> Black ICE wrote:
>
> >Exactly how do you compel anyone to listen?
>
> 1) Subliminal message inserted in existing broadcasts
>
> 2) Jam various station and broadcast on their frequencies.
And if I don't turn on my tri-v/radio/other commo technology?
<>
>
> >Once word gets out about your doctrine, resistance will likely
> >_increase_, rather than decrease. In WW II, Soviet soldiers
> >stopped surrendering to the Germans, once they found out what
> >happened to their comrades who had surrendered.
>
> Anyone who surrenders lives. Except with the mind-control gases
> option, folks who surrender are even basically untouched by war,
> since there are no crazed troops burning their homes or performing
> Mei Lai (sp?) massacres in their backyards with their families.
My point was that all the _other_ worlds would resist with increased
fanaticism, once word got out that you were deliberately attacking
_entire civilian populations_ with chemical and biological weapons, in
order to coerce them to cooperate.
Again, if you don't win the whole war, your enemies will find themselves
compelled by self-preservation to fight until you are utterly cast down,
then impose upon you a "peace" that makes Versailles seem like the
Marshall Plan.
<>
>
> > Try asking yourself, "if they did this to _us_, would I give in?"
> > You may find the answer is different, when the problem is viewed
> > from a first-person perspective.
>
> In a word, hell yes. If you capitulate, you survive. The survival of
> me and those I care about is far more important than who's running
> the government. Then again nationalism in all forms baffles me.
Obviously, we have nothing else to say to each other about this.
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 11:26:55 -0800
From: "Cybernaut"
Subject: So long and thanks for all the fish (and penguins)
Due to Real Life considerations, I will have to drop out for a
while. THUDDD correspondence and personal email can be
sent to me privately (I'm hoping to
have the time to continue coordinating THUDDD). Hopefully,
when things settle down a bit I'll be back.
I will be posting a couple of things concerning THUDDD and
perhaps a final reply or two and then I'll be unsubscribing.
Feel free to contact me off list about anything important.
CU
- --
Cybernaut
______________________________________________
The rules have changed... Get paid to surf the web.
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 20:18:40 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: jump to empty hexes?
At 20:18 05.03.00 -0800, Steven Hudson wrote:
>>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
>>Subject: Re: Let's Vote for Traveller
>...
>>Oh, and Ob Traveller, and changing to another subject... Are we
>>sure the Vilani even *could* jump to empty hexes for all those
>>thousands of years? Maybe the ability to use "calabration points"
>>(even Jump 1 calabration points) was a development that came
>>hundreds, even thousands, of years after they began spreading out.
>
> This has come up before re: _Imperium_, where FTL traffic is
>restricted to Jump lines of up to ~2 parsecs in length (IIRC).
>
> It would fix a lot of problems in that respect; OTOH, I'm not
>real keen on allowing jumps to empty hexes in M:1100, either :)
So that's the answer I was looking for, regarding Vilani expansion! Thank
you all so far.
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 20:23:00 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Interstellar Democracies in YTU
At 11:58 05.03.00 -0800, Steven Hudson wrote:
>>From: Ingo Heinscher
>>Subject: Re: Interstellar Democracies in YTU
>>Do you think that people like Robespierre and his Mountain party primarily
>>had the well-being of those peasants in mind when they started their
>>slaughter?
>
> They must have had some objectives beyond that of making corpses, and it
>doesn't seem to have been wealth, or possibly even personal power. Utterly
>mistaking the strength of their position vis-a-vis internal security and
>violent resistance was no doubt a factor, of course. And those were fairly
>clever men, all things considered, so they were trying to do something, yes?
Oh, they _were_ idealists, no doubt. But they didn't seem to think of the
peasants, but their ideology. That _ideology_ may have had the peasants in
mind upon its creation, but that initial idea behind it all, I say, was
somehow lost to them by the time they killed all those poor people. And,
BTW, each other.
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 20:12:01 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
At 09:52 05.03.00 -0800, James W. Lindsay wrote:
[snip]
>However, you seem to think that a "homeworld" would establish a colony
>dozens of parsecs away "at the other end of the empire" (eg: rimward).
>This would not be the case. It would be worlds at *that* end of the empire
>that would create further settlements rimward.
Here you encounter the manpower problem. People are born and grow up right
_here_, on the "homeworld" at the one end of Vilani space. If you want to
establish new colonies, you need people to man that colony. Using only
those guys rimward would mean that population density would quickly drop
there, making trade there much less efficienzt or profitable. Fewer
consumers. If you want to prevent this you have two possible strategies at
hand:
a) Slow down your expansion, so that the rimward colonies have time to
build up their population. But why not expand into the other direction,
where you have the manpower? That would be more profitable than not
expanding at all.
b) You could use the people from the one end of Vilani space, ship them
rimward and let them settle those new worlds along the main. But that would
be cost prohibitive, since travel time would be over a year when talking
about an at least sector-spanning Vilani trade empire.
>If you take all the systems within 5 parsecs of Vland and *only* have
>jump-1 technology, you will see that it would be far easier to expand
>rimward than coreward. Enlarge the sphere to 10 parsecs and you'll still
>see that the only real direction for expansion is rimward (and slightly
>spinward).
Hm. I have the sector map of Vland sector here... let's see.
Coreward: Shinta, Kipii, Ginam, (one deep space jump), Isbudin, Ishata,
(one deep spape jump), Irila, and from there you can reach the corward edge
of Vland sector via jump-1.
Trailing: Follow the line from Vland to Liisurkhish, make one deep space
jump, arrive at St.George and use that main to the trailing edge of Vland
sector.
>BTW, it took the Vilani over 300 years to establish what canon
>calls a "10 parsec economic sphere".
One could see this as the necessary phase of cultural adaption to the idea
that there is far more unknown territory to explore than known. But I've
not yet reread that book (V&V), so it's only a blind guess...
[snip]
>> It could also be the decision of a planetary gouvernment. No "independent
>> mindset" required for those colonists, so.
>
>I'm not talking about being "independent" as in "moving away from home".
>I'm talking about being unreliant on interstellar trade to any major degree
>and relying on what you can produce on-planet.
But the ability to do so is necessary for any economically interesting
colony. Otherwise it doesn't make sense to found a colony at all. (Unless
there's some _really_ interesting lanthanium ore there or something...)
>If a world is going to need to import food, finished products, etc., those
>citizens are going to have to be willing to spend *AT LEAST* four times the
>price for shipping to obtain those goods over a distance of 4 parsecs!
You say "four times as much". That is, four times as much as for a world
that is just one parsec away from the world that can produce these goods.
But how densely distributed where those in Vilani space in those days?
[snip]
>Four 1 parsec jumps means four times as much fuel, four times as much for
>salaries, four times as much for maintenance, four times as much per ton of
>cargo shipping fees, etc. Now you've got to pay for another week or so of
>unloading that cargo, plus the one month trip back. (Why? Think of it as
>a long cab ride to the middle of nowhere. No cabbie is going to take you
>up on that offer unless there's someone there willing to pay just as much
>to get back, or you pay for the trip both ways. Since nobody on the return
>end of this round trip is going to want to pay for a month long trip to get
>goods that they can get from much closer to home, it is highly likely that
>the colony will have to pay for this time as well.)
So you say that a new colony doesn't produce anything that is interesting
for export? Why found any colony, then? I think we can fairly assume that
there are economic reasons for founding colonies, otherwise the Vilani
wouldn't have founded them, be it along the Vilani Main or anywhere.
[snip]
>Here's the kicker though: a 400t Type R Subsidized Merchant would be
>reduced to only 80 tons of cargo space if it needed to install three 40t
>bladders to store the fuel for the three successive jump-1 jumps. If we do
>the math, that boils down to nearly Cr10,000 to ship each single ton of
>cargo.
Which is by now a meaningless number to me, since I have no idea what it
would cost another colony, four parsecs away from an industrial world that
lies along the Vilani Main (something that is very likely to happen during
expansion), to import one dton. But I assume it's almost the same (a bit
less, since crew will naturally want more money for four weeks without a
day "onshore.")
>Oh, and don't think a government is really going to jump in and subsidize
>such a remote colony. They already lose money subsidizing trade on the
>jump-1 mains. The use of the 400t merchant above was used because it is
>common, possesses Jump-1, and utilizes fuel bladders to cross two-parsec
>regions of space. I don't consider this to be a worse case scenario, but
>it is far from a best case scenario either.
What do you mean, they lose money by subsidizing trade with the new
colonies? They wouldn't do that, if there wasn't some indirect profit out
of it.
[snip]
>A tanker or two *per fleet*? Hardly. According to canon, early starships
>are limited in size according to computer tech level. This is something
>that the Vilani didn't really excel at, limiting them to a hull size of
>4,000t with TL 9 computers and 10,000t at TL 10 (numbers taken from High
>Guard). If we use the above Rift Tanker example (which isn't fair since it
>was built at a much higher tech level), that leaves a 4,000t vessel only
>240 tons for fuel for other vessels, and a 10,000t vessel only 600 tons.
>These numbers are artificially high, since the Rift Tanker possessed no
>maneuver drives or cargo space whatsoever. That certainly isn't a lot of
>fuel to distribute throughout a fleet.
:-)
Well, the "fleet" would not have to be more than two scouts and a cruiser.
With two tankers, that could be enough.
>> BTW: Wouldn't the colonists _want_ to be a member ofthe ZS?
>
>Not necessarily.
But normally, I assume.
>One would raise the question: why do they want to move so
>far away if they don't wish to remain part of the Ziru Sirka? Just because
>they go out and claim a world outside the Imperial boarders does not mean
>that the ZS is going to reach out and protect it.
Well, as indicated earlier, those kind of Vilani weren't the ones I had in
mind.
>Additionally, colonists often leave for new worlds because they don't like
>the one their leaving.
Or they are ordered to do so, if you don't find any volunteers. But you
will, as agouvernment. Humans are greedy. Even Vlani. ;-)
>> [Snip-3I Rift Corsser}
>> >First of all, a ship comprised of 80% fuel won't leave much room for
>> >anything, especially cargo space-- which would need to be filled with
>> >settlement equipment & supplies.
>>
>> It would be some kind of Xboat, rue.
>
>???
!!!
:-)
SCNR
What I meant was the courier. Obviously, what you meant was the tanker/tender.
>Actually, the ship would comprise of *more* than 80% fuel. "1 ton per
>energy point is required per month of Maneuver", according to CT (the
>numbers get even uglier under MT, IIRC).
And even better in GT. But I think we should assume Clasic rules here, agreed.
>> >Second, such an established colony would *obviously* be on its own, since
>> >it just wouldn't be economically feasible to trade back and forth over a
>> >distance of 20 parsecs with only jump-1 vessels.
>>
>> Err... I was talking about the *3I* here, shortening the commo lanes. NOt
>> founding a new colony acroos the Great Rift. (But ask some Aslan about
that.)
>
>Sorry... must have missed that. Your initial post to the TML asked why the
>Vilani never expanded coreward, etc.
Actually, I asked two questions there. Vilani and 3I expansion were
involved. Sorry for not making that clearer. :( And as a spin-off I started
to ask for general ideas about the problem that deep space jumps provide
for canon history.
>And no fair comparing Imperial colonial or military expansion to the
>Aslan's ihatei :)
Yeah, true, sorry... poor Aslan. :-)
[snip]
>> But you can use fuel tankers in deep space as refueling points. Send a
>> tanker at the future location of the base to refuel incoming j-4 cargo
>> ships, unload the cargo ships to build the base. Replace the tanker when
>> it's got only enough fuel left to come home itsself.
>
>Believe me, I've experimented with this scenario. That's why I built my
>1,000,000t Rift Tanker. But even a monstrosity of this size has only 6% of
>it's mass dedicated to refueling other ships. It isn't a fun ship to serve
>on either, with over 4,400 crew sleeping four to a stateroom, and with only
>a smidgen of weaponry to defend itself from the enemy (which might consider
>it a prime trophy) and 87 tons of space allocated for "additional crew
>space". The bastard cost 351 *trillion* credits and utilized a dispersed
>structure hull to bring costs down (which means that it must rely on other
>ships to refuel it most of the time). It could also only stand on station
>for 16 days before its reserve fuel was depleted.
>
>> Sure that _is_ a tricky and _very_ expensive action. But it would probably
>> be worth the cost.
>
>But *not* if cheaper possibilities existed.
... to get information (and perhaps warships) from one side of the Great
Rift to the other on just below 20 weeks.
>> >> Plus, of course, the military aspect: Having deep space bases at
strategic
>> >> points in deep space (where they are virtually unattackable, as long
as the
>> >> enemy doesn't know their exact position) might be a major asset.
(Look at
>> >> sthe Spinward Marches and remeber the Frontier Wars, for example.)
And of
>> >> course there will be tenders, specifically built as "mobile deep space
>> >> bases" (which is probably cheaper, if I think it over...)
>> >
>> >Again, having such a rift would be far more beneficial if used as a
sort of
>> >Maginot Line-- except that it would cost *nothing* to maintain.
>>
>> A Maginot line (or English channel, if you prefer) right through your own
>> empire? Why?
>
>That's the question I asked you :) You asked why you wouldn't expand past
>the Imperium's current boundaries. I responded by saying that most of the
>Imperium's current boundaries border on the four Rifts and that they make
>ideal defensive lines. I then asked why you'd want to expand beyond those.
:-)
The rift I had in mind was the Great one, from Gushemege to reft sector or
Deneb.
>> >Now if you are talking about putting military supply bases in hexes on a
>> >map *within the ZS* that simply don't have star systems in them, you've
got
>> >another problem: these are *military* bases and would be kept secret.
>> >Traders couldn't use them to hop from main to main.
>>
>> Nor would it be profitable for them: From Main to Main, there are cheaper
>> ways to trasfer cargo than by two jumps-1.
>
>Please explain.
One jump-2 or higher. 3I. In the ZS, this isn't a coice, of course.
>> >> Is it just my few books, or are these ideas not used in canon
material as
>> >> much as they should be?
>> >
>> >It all boils down to economics-- governments usually choose the plan that
>> >is the cheapest :)
>>
>> *sigh* If this was true...
>> And still: I think it _is_ cheaper to build such a rift crossing
>> infrastructure than sending every message across Corridor.
>
>Such a "rift crossing infrastructure" does exist, but it is totally secret
>and for military use only (communications, mostly).
Which makes sense. And that it's secret somehow explains why I didn't know
them. :-)
>> >Additionally, there is the Vilani mindset. Vilani are probably the most
>> >concervative-thinking individuals in known space :)
>>
>> Conservative, yes. But not too short-sighted to build an interstellar
empire.
>> I mean, we all know jokes about Vilani conservatism. But thy are _jokes_,
>> exaggerating what the Vilani actually are. IMO.
[snip-explanation of the acronym IMTU]
>In that last sentence of yours,
>it would have been better if you had said "But IMTU they are _jokes_,
>exaggerating what the Vilani actually are. IMO."
:-)
So you say that you _really_ need six Vilani to change a lighbulb in canon?
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2011
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Traveller-digest Monday, March 6 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2012
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
re: Self-sufficient planets
Spec's for THUDDD 11
Re: THUDDD 11
re: Regina's government
MT Starship Design
MT Starship Desing Spreadsheet request
Re: Warship Dining Arrangements in the Spinward Marches?
Re: Corridor and Provence (Re: Traveller Sector Information)
Your Name Here in Vilani!
Question of temperance
Re: MT Starship Design
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
Re: Your Name in Vilani & Zhodani
re: Self-sufficient planets
Question of temperance
Grenades (was: Re: Silent Firearms...)
Re: Interstellar Democracies in YTU
Calibration Points was Re: Re: Let's Vote for Traveller
Re: jump to empty hexes?
Chief Engineer on the Luuru
Re: Using no ground troops (longish)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 11:52:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: re: Self-sufficient planets
>From: Walt Smith
>Air/Raft - Cr600000
>Car - Cr10000?
>Maybe "common as light aircraft", rather than "common as
SUV's".
You can't trust that Cr600,000 figure from the LBBs. I've
designed fairly average air/rafts using Striker for various tech
levels, and they came out around Cr10,000 to Cr20,000, if I
recall correctly. So they should be ubiquitous.
- --Glenn
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Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 11:55:22 -0800
From: "Cybernaut"
Subject: Spec's for THUDDD 11
It seems that some did not see the original posting of the
spec's for THUDDD 11, so, I'll repost them. With this
reposting, the entries are reopened and will remain open
until further notice.
Okay, here's the spec's for THUDDD 11:
********************* Begin transmission **********************
[From IN Press Release 0035-109-1009, Capital/Core]
Lord Jonas Mac Finny, a representative of the Imperial
Bureau of Transportation (IBoT), announced an IBoT initiative
to upgrade current standards for small cargo transport,
specifically a new standard for what is commonly referred to
as a Modular Cutter. IBoT was prompted to announce this
initiative by the constant complaints concerning the massive
cost of current standard units, noting that several standard
star ship designs cost less.
Lord Mac Finny provided spec's for the current standard
units:
______________________________________________
Modular Cutter Volume 700 Cost 28 MCr
Tons 50 Passengers High/Medium 12
Crew 2 Passengers Low 0
Controls: Civilian Standard TL 9
Cargo 15 0 Jump Rating
7 Size Rating 4 G Rating/Maneuver Drive
0 Fire Control Rating 4 Power Plant Rating
13.5 Rating/Scoop/Refine
0A 2P 0J Sensor Rating
0 Armor 6 Structure
Modular Cutter: Using a 50-ton hull, the cutter is capable of
4G, carries 2 tons of fuel, and has a crew of two. It has 30
tons committed to special detachable modules; the craft has
2.t tons excess space available for weaponry or ancillary
items.
Three interchangeable modules are routinely available for
the modular cutter:
The ATV Module (which includes an operational ATV)
is 30 tons. It can land and retrieve an ATV on a world
surface. The module can serve as an ATV storage
location, if desired.
The fuel module, with 30 tons of fuel tankage, serves as
a fuel skimming vehicle and storage tank.
The open module is a customizable frame with 30 tons
of excess space, which can be allocated to passenger
couches, fuel, cargo, cabin, or staterooms.
______________________________________________
Indicating that the new standard should meet or exceed the
current standard for less money. Lord Mac Finny was quick
to assure this reporter that the winning design firm would be
given an immediate contract to produce an initial run of 2
dozen (24) Modular Cutters and would be able to expect
annual contracts to produce hundreds more after the
completion of trials (not to mention the private sector
buyers).
********************** End transmission ***********************
Due to concerns expressed by some, this competition will
be closed to those who only design using GURPS. We
wouldn't want any of the THUDDD designs to influence
anything produced for use in an actual Traveller source
book, now would we? ;-)
All kidding aside, we wish the developers of the _Modular
Cutter Source Book_ all the best in the world.
Please do *not* include designs for specific Modules. After
the release of the _Modular Cutter Source Book_, we may
have a special competition for Module designs if anyone is
interested. THUDDD 11 is for the boats only.
I'm looking forward to seeing those Non-GURPS designs.
- --
Cybernaut
______________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 11:55:56 -0800
From: "Cybernaut"
Subject: Re: THUDDD 11
Black ICE wrote:
> For THUDDD 11, I've seen one person (Jens Rydholm) express an interest
> in submitting a design. My suggestion, since there is at least one
> person interested besides the original entrant, would be to begin THUDDD
> 12, let that run through submission and voting, and then reopen THUDDD
> "11-A." That also buys time for discussions for a topic for THUDDD 13.
My hopes were to conduct 2 THUDDD competitions
consecutively. I was not aware that the lag time would be
quite as long as it seems to have been. I don't see any
reason that THUDDD 11 & 12 cannot continue together.
> I've already posted the THUDDD 12 final draft proposal to the TML, so
> it's ready to go whenever you put it up on your site.
>
> BTW, I have a suggestion about formatting THUDDD entries:
>
> Simply have each entrant send you a .txt file of his/her/its design.
> When you post the designs to the THUDDD page, you just provide a link to
> the submitted text file. That'll save you a lot of time and effort (the
> contestants will be solely responsible for how good their formatting
> looks), while we contestants won't have to spend time rewriting files in
> HTML to a specific format, nor will we have to spend time filling out an
> on-line form (as in THUDDD 10). This method will also prevent any
> formatting hassles for GT designs (which differ in many respects from
> T4).
Has anyone downloaded the new THUDDD standard format
submission file? I have heard no feedback concerning its
utility. If you would rather make your remarks to me privately,
you may send that to me at .
The file is available from:
http://www.releasingthefire.com/thuddd/format.html
or
http://thuddd.homepage.com/format.html
please take a few minutes to download the file and let me
know what you think.
- --
Cybernaut
______________________________________________
The rules have changed... Get paid to surf the web.
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Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 12:04:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: re: Regina's government
>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen
>Subject: Regina's government (Was: Another example)
>Um, where do you get the idea that Regina is ruled directly by
>Norris? I don't recall seeing that anywhere. Well... _Behid the
>Claw_ claims that Regina is Norris' personal fief, but that is
>presumably a mistake, since Norris used to be a mere subsector
>duke, who don't have fiefs of that size, and Regina is not the
>Emperor's to give away -- it was a fully-developed world by
>the time it joined the Imperium in 250 and up until the Civil
>War only had a baron.
I thought Yori, or maybe just part of it, was the personal fief
of the Dukes of Regina. I don't recall the source.
- --Glenn
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Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 16:10:27 AST
From: "D Allain"
Subject: MT Starship Design
I’m looking at the MT Starship desing. Agility is computed as: (excess
power output in megawatts / unloaded weight of craft in tons) x 5.4.
Now, if I design the ship with 0 agility, and then want to design a higer
agility, say 4 or even 6, then I have to add power plant volume to increase
power output. But by adding power plant volume, I add weight. If the ship
has a fuel purification plant, then that volume and consequentially weight
increases also. I seem to be having difficulty increasing the agility, since
adding power increases weight significantly, making agility a very costly
option, both with price and volume. Does anyone have anything to say on this
matter?
DeniS
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 16:11:53 AST
From: "D Allain"
Subject: MT Starship Desing Spreadsheet request
I play MT and want to design some starships. Where can I find a MT
starship design spreadsheet? I use Excell 95 v7.
DeniS
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 12:15:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: Warship Dining Arrangements in the Spinward Marches?
>From: Erwin Fritz
>Its namesake is, of course, the city in Saskatchewan. I wonder
>if that's where the Traveller name came from.
Loren has said that they were inspired by many sources.
He did not confirm the following, but I note that: Efate is the
name of a South Pacific island. Jewell is a small town north of
San Francisco, near Point Reyes National Seashore. Esalin could
be derived from Esalen, a famous institute and spa on the
northern California coast. I just drove past the exit for
Bowman in the gold country of central California this weekend.
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 11:40:53 -0800
From: Keith Johnson
Subject: Re: Corridor and Provence (Re: Traveller Sector Information)
At 02:39 PM 3/6/00 -0500, you wrote:
>From: Ewan Quibell
>Subject: Re: Corridor and Provence (Re: Traveller Sector Information)
>
>Keith Johnson wrote:
>
> >
> > Is there any other sources of information for Corridor or Provence?
>
>Yes, Travellers Digest 18 has a full sector map and library data, and
>the Mega Traveller Journals have living in Corridor under the Vargr, and
>a whole scenario on Depot.
>
>Hope this helps
It certainly does. Thanks!
Now I just have to find TD18. :)
_________________________________________________________
Rev. Keith Johnson /\ keith@sjgames.com
Assistant Webmaster /()\ keithalanjohnson@home.com
Steve Jackson Games /____\ reverendkeith@hotmail.com
"I choose you, Dullinor!" - PokeTrav Master
IMTU tm++@ t4+@ tg++$ ru- ge-@ st+ pi+ he+ dr+ hi-@ zh+
_________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 12:18:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Your Name Here in Vilani!
Steve Daniels wrote:>
> Very cool! Now how do I pronounce:
> Shiruu Shiragenad
> or
> Shiiruu Shiragenad
Well, I think I'm going to pronounce it "throat warbler
mangrove", but your mileage may vary.
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 20:24:09 -0000
From: "Nick Wright"
Subject: Question of temperance
Gentlebeings,
A Question to the TML,
Are Imperial Ships of the Azhanti High Lightning Class Dry or Wet as regards
alcohol?
I understand that currently USN ships are dry and RN ships wet.
On the one hand you don't want a load of drunkards operating all that
delicate machinery in Jumpspace. On the other hand a week without a drink
is a long time in jumpspace. Prehaps a compromise of "Not on duty" might be
in order.
The reason I want to know is I am trying to put together a Half-life
level/WAD/walkthrough of AHL and I want to know whether a dart board should
go on the Flight crew's wall or a screen for AA presentations.
Thank you for your answers.
I remain etc, etc.
Nick Wright
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 13:29:41 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz
Subject: Re: MT Starship Design
D Allain wrote:
>
> I’m looking at the MT Starship desing. Agility is computed as: (excess
> power output in megawatts / unloaded weight of craft in tons) x 5.4.
> Now, if I design the ship with 0 agility, and then want to design a higer
> agility, say 4 or even 6, then I have to add power plant volume to increase
> power output. But by adding power plant volume, I add weight. If the ship
> has a fuel purification plant, then that volume and consequentially weight
> increases also. I seem to be having difficulty increasing the agility, since
> adding power increases weight significantly, making agility a very costly
> option, both with price and volume. Does anyone have anything to say on this
> matter?
I generally don't worry about agility so much, because of exactly the
problem you describe. My ships tend to have higher maneuver drive ratings
instead because, if it comes to a ship being on the defensive, the ability
to run away is far more useful than the ability to "jiggle" around to avoid
hits.
- --
Erwin Fritz
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 15:31:30 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
Ingo Heinscher wrote:
>So you say that a new colony doesn't produce anything that is interesting
>for export? Why found any colony, then? I think we can fairly assume that
>there are economic reasons for founding colonies, otherwise the Vilani
>wouldn't have founded them, be it along the Vilani Main or anywhere.
A world four jumo-1 away along a j-1 main will take just as long to get to
as a world four j-1's of deep space away, but you forget a crucial
difference: in almost every system along that main, a merchant ship
can refuel, often for free. Thus it took four to six weeks to move a normal
trader hull that was 80% cargo, instead of a rift-crosser hull that was 80%+
fuel. The economic difference is major, enough to explain traveling tens of
parsecs along a J-1 main instead of moving 4 parsecs across a single rift.
Especially since that J-1 main isn't empty space, it's worlds with starports.
A colony that's on a jump-1 main is much easier to make profitable than
one that's four jump-1's from anywhere. A marginal world along a J-1 route
might even be colonized and do well, if nothing else than because
someone started a small base there for refueling purposes that slowly
grew - the frequent passage of merchant ships and proximity to other
worlds can make up for some of the lack of high-profit resources. A
marginal world on the other side of a rift doesn't have these advantages to
offset the poor quality of the planet - if it doesn't have something really
special to offer, it's not going to be as attractive for colonization as a world
along the main, even a subsector or more away along the main.
As for running out of people to support second and third wave expansions...
I don't think starship transport capabilities can keep up with population
expansion, unless the population is strongly constrained. Vilani had
one major limit I know of - food supply problems - would that be enough?
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 11:59:46 -0800
From: Keith Johnson
Subject: Re: Your Name in Vilani & Zhodani
At 02:39 PM 3/6/00 -0500, you wrote:
>Line 2:
> Shift vowels:
> a becomes e
> e remains e
> i becomes e
> o becomes a
> u becomes q
>
>Line 3:
> Convert diphthongs:
> a + any vowel becomes o
> ea -> e'a ee -> ia ei -> e'ay eo -> e
> o + any vowel becomes o
I'm easily confused. If every o becomes an a, how can any o+vowels exist?
Vilani
Keith Alan Johnson --> Kerkh Naashirnkhaaiiaagan
Zhodani (beta)
Keith Johnson --> Javpanvtia Zhnasnvaj
Personally, I like my Vilani name. I'll have to use it for the name of a
Captain for my upcoming GameCon demo.
"Kerkh. Captain Kerkh." :)
_________________________________________________________
Rev. Keith Johnson /\ keith@sjgames.com
Assistant Webmaster /()\ keithalanjohnson@home.com
Steve Jackson Games /____\ reverendkeith@hotmail.com
"I choose you, Dullinor!" - PokeTrav Master
IMTU tm++@ t4+@ tg++$ ru- ge-@ st+ pi+ he+ dr+ hi-@ zh+
_________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 15:34:01 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: re: Self-sufficient planets
Glenn Goffin wrote:
>You can't trust that Cr600,000 figure from the LBBs. I've
>designed fairly average air/rafts using Striker for various tech
>levels, and they came out around Cr10,000 to Cr20,000, if I
>recall correctly. So they should be ubiquitous.
How did you get around the Cr200,000 cost on a minimum size
fusion plant? Or were reductions in cost due to technology levels
sufficient? Were you working with other power sources instead?
I may have been misreading that part of the design sequences.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 15:39:18 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: Question of temperance
Nick Wright wrote:
>Are Imperial Ships of the Azhanti High Lightning Class Dry or Wet as
>regards alcohol?
I'd vote on officially Dry, with officer's mess Wet and certain
under-inspected crew areas decidedly Damp.
This is based on my recollection of a crew area on the Kinunuir (sp?)
that conspiciously had a samovar for tea, but no bar for alcohol. I figure
that the officer's class, being quasi-noble, would have more priviledges.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 12:54:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Grenades (was: Re: Silent Firearms...)
This is an interesting topic drift, to go from silent weapons to
grenades, which are by no means silent.
I personally like the idea of a very large, smooth, spherical
grenade with three holes into which the thumb and the two
fingers are inserted not quite up to the first joint. Thrower
holds the grenade by squeezing the thumb and fingers. Thrower
then takes two short steps and launches the grenade underhand,
so that it rolls along the floor. It's especially useful in the
buiilding or starship setting to clear hallways.
- --Glenn
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Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 17:56:09 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: Interstellar Democracies in YTU
At 4:44 -0500 6/3/00, Re: Interstellar Democracies in YTU wrote:
>There's a GT aliens book (AR3?) coming out that will be covering the
>Hivers, I gather.
Yep. Written by BITS very own David Thomas (SpaceDogs, 101
Governments, 101 Lifeforms, GT:AR2) and Andy Slack (101
Patrons(forthcoming), GT:AR2, White Dwarf, Challenge) along with a
certain David Nilsen.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
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can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 17:52:27 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Calibration Points was Re: Re: Let's Vote for Traveller
At 4:44 -0500 6/3/00, o John Littleton wrote:
>Does anyone have a canon source for these "calibration points"? I guess
>somewhere along the line I heard of them and assumed this was a normal
>jump-drive capability, but I'm curious as to where the idea originated.
TNE: The Regency Sourcebook.
They may also be mentioned in the TNE rules but I haven't got those to hand.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
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can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 17:50:21 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: jump to empty hexes?
At 4:44 -0500 6/3/00, Re: jump to empty hexes? wrote:
>Me neither, I like the astrography to have the effect of channeling
>traffic. However, there was an interesting suggestion the other
>day that jumping to an empty hex might be possible, just much more
>difficult (and dangerous). Perhaps, it *could* be done, but the
>chance of a misjump drasticly increases if you jump to an "empty"
>hex? This leaves it open for possible use, but makes it something
>that isn't commonly done.
It is possible in canon, not that would matter to a heretic like
yourself; The Traveller Adventure has a deep space jump, and the
First Contact from the Solomani is a similar approach to Barnard's
Star.
Personally, I take a Cherryh-like approach which ties in with MM's
T4.x draft - I assume that you need to find a dark mass (eg a comet)
to jump deep space to.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 15:58:03 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: Chief Engineer on the Luuru
I was looking over the sample battlecruiser crew in the _Kinuinir_(sp?)
supplement, and I noticed something about the Chief Engineer. I compared
the crew statistics, and I think the relative numbers suggest an NPC in an
interesting situation.
Int 8, Edu 7, Soc 5. 3 terms, IIRC. Engineering-4, Revolver-1, Vacc-2
He has fewer terms in service than anyone else in the Engineering
department - about ten crewmen, depending on whether you count
the crewmen for Electronics Shop and Machine Shop. The sole
exception is a Starman Engineer with only one term. (And this one-term
Starman is more intelligent, better educated and higher class than the
Chief Engineer. )
Everyone else in the command section is Noble, or at least of the same
social class as nobility. In fact, only one or two crewmen on the whole
ship are lower class than he is.
However, he is also better at his job - Engineering-4 - than anyone else
on the whole ship. No one else has that skill level in anything, IIRC,
and certainly none of the other Navy officers have a skill that high.
Let's see...he could be a Commander, but he missed a possible
promotion. Are his low class and poor education starting to catch up
with him? Or did he spend his first term as an unpromoted Starman,
until his natural talents for Engineering started to make his career?
Is this guy on his way up...will he be a Soc-A Admiral four terms from
now? Or is he a man with a natural talent for engines, reaching a plateau
early in his career, doomed to linger on as top technician on a minor
ship? If the latter, his frustrations might make a good plot hook.
Regardless, I'll bet he thinks he's the only officer who works for a living
on that ship. ;-)
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 12:50:29
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Using no ground troops (longish)
At 02:24 AM 3/6/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>If you are the Zhodani or the Hivers and you are fighting the
>Imperium hen your propaganda and subliminals are much better
>than theirs.
Up until now we weren't talking about the Hivers or Zhos. The Hivers aren't
interested in conquest at any level, and the Zhos just want to keep the
Imperium out. (look at the pattern of the Frontier Wars if you don't
believe me. They haven't been wars of conquest, but attempts to weaken the
Imperium in the Marches.
>The key difference is that both the Hivers and the Zhodani have an
>actual working understanding of sophont psychology, we do not,
>and it looks like the Imperium also does not. I believe that effective
>propaganda is possible. However, we can't do it.
I'm sorry, but you keep making these amazing leaps. *Anything* is possible
with enough handwaving.
>
>Heck, the Hivers managed to turn a K'Kree planet into solitude
>seeking omnivores in only 5 years (Alien Module 7: Hivers, page
>17). Given that doing so is equivalent to turning the US into a
>nation of cannibalistic necrophiliacs, getting someone to surrender
>using orbitally broadcast propaganda and subliminal messages
>should only require a few months. Going this route is way cheaper
>and less messy than ground wars. As Vietnam clearly proved,
>ground wars can be equally unwinnable.
I'm sorry, but somebody most definately won the Vietnam war, as any
resident of Ho Chi Minh City can tell you.
I would also point out that we had absoulte, unchallenged air supierority
for the entire time of US involvement, could (and did) bomb the North with
impunity, and pumped billions into the south in hearts and minds operations.
Didn't change a thing. The war was fought on the ground.
>As far as knowing the target cultures, I imagine the Hivers have
>contingency plans for how to manipulate any planet they might ever
>be at war with already written down.
The hivers haven't gone to War for well over two thousand years. Even
then, they maintain a client race of warriors *specificaly* to handle
ground combat. This suggests that even the manipulators need troops enough
to keep the Ithklur in high position.
You mentioned turning humans into "cannibalistic necrophiliacs". Ever meet
a Goth? Care for three websites celebrating necrophilia? A list of cultures
that still practise cannibalism today? It's not the same as what happened
to the K'Kree. The anti-predator urge is extremely primal.
> Wrt the Zhodani, some low
>orbit clairvoyance and mind scans will definitely help track how well
>the propaganda war is going and allow useful feedback.
How many clairvoyants/telepaths strong enough to read individual minds from
a few hundred miles up are you willing to risk? These guys are the
Consulate's government, you know. Anyway, if the place is TL 12 I start
churning out the psi-shield helmets, and shielding buildings. Like
blackout curtains during WWII, it would reinforce the threat, and bring
people together.
Also, imagine the counter propaganda! Posters and billboards (which cannot
be jammed) featuring a native solider, beaten a bruised being menaced by
looming shadows, all wearing turbans. Below, in big slashing letters "Stray
thoughts KILL! Wear your helmets! Check your shielding!"
Anyway, a ship full of enemy officers would be a prime target for any
remaining planetary defense guns.
> As I see it, the only reason the Imperium *isn't* using such tactics is
>they for some reason find ground troops more moral or more traditional
>than propaganda and subliminal message wars combined with warbots.
You know, we could have taken Kuwait by nuking every city in Iraq, seeding
the Republican Guard formations with nerve gas, and poisoning the water
supplies with biowar agents.
Of course, every other nation on Earth would launch on us.
>>Once word gets out about your doctrine, resistance will likely
>>_increase_, rather than decrease. In WW II, Soviet soldiers
>>stopped surrendering to the Germans, once they found out what
>>happened to their comrades who had surrendered.
>
>Anyone who surrenders lives. Except with the mind-control gases
>option, folks who surrender are even basically untouched by war,
>since there are no crazed troops burning their homes or performing
>Mei Lai (sp?) massacres in their backyards with their families.
So you say. Of course, you also the guy using bioagents.
My Lai. Great. *one* incident in over a decade of American presense. Why
don't you see what the VC did to people it didn't like?
>All you really need is warbots which can detect weapons and
>target accurately. TL 12 or 13 should do that just fine. I would
>imagine the Hivers could easily create such warbots. Make them
>master-slave robots (one central robot brain) and they won't even
>be that costly.
Robot sentry 56439A is on duty outside the Occupation Headquaters. A native
truck drives up. The sentry scans for explosives and weapons. It finds
none, it then visually inspects the cargo for known weapons in the cargo.
None the truck is waved in.
Two day later, a man on foot requests entry. Same routine, this time on the
man's backpack. No problems.
That evening, Local contractors are called to repair the wiring in the
kitchen. No problems, and 56439A goes bakc to quietly hovering.
Next day, several senior occupation members are dead, from crossbow shots.
The bow came in disgused as one of the truck's springs, and the body was
conceled in the engine's oil pan..
The bowstring was disguised as wire in the electrician's kit.
The bolts were inside the back pack's frame, and were made of glass.
>I'd say the best strategy to both avoid building fanatical resistance
>and to allow maximum effectiveness is (one orbit is fully held)
>propaganda + subliminal messages + anti-weapon warbots
>followed by police and administrators. At first you may end up with
>a situation little better than Northern Ireland, but that's a *hell* of a
>lot better than an actual ground war, for a fraction of the cost and
>the casualties.
OK, let me ask you. Why didn't this work in Eastern Europe? The Warsaw
Pact Countries had four decades or exactly your prescription, and the
mopment it was possible, they revolted.
>In a word, hell yes. If you capitulate, you survive. The survival of
>me and those I care about is far more important than who's running
>the government. Then again nationalism in all forms baffles me.
But in your original scenario, you and your family would be deprived of you
free will to resist!
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2012
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Traveller-digest Monday, March 6 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2013
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Question of temperance
Re: Your Name in Vilani & Zhodani
Evil mind-raping Zhodani (was re: Using no ground troops (longish))
Re: Your Name in Vilani & Zhodani
re: Question of temperance
re: Self-sufficient planets
Re: Any T4 Ship Requests?
Phone rates
RE: Let's Vote for Traveller
Re: Noisy Grenades (was: Re: Silent Firearms...)
Re: Question of temperance
GasBg HoloRecorder Pics and Rule Of Man Coins
re: Self-sufficient planets
Re: Question of temperance
RE: Silent Weapons
RE: Silent Weapons
Re: Silent Weapons
Re: GasBg HoloRecorder Pics and Rule Of Man Coins
Re: Underwater habitats
The Lost Supplements ARRIVE
your name here! in Vilani and Zhodani
RE: Using no Ground Troops
Re: Interstellar Democracies in YTU
RE: Using no Ground Troops
Re: GasBg HoloRecorder Pics and Rule Of Man Coins
Re: Let's Vote for Traveller, Once Per Day
Re: Barretts, et.al...
Re: Using no ground troops
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 12:52:08
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Question of temperance
At 08:24 PM 3/6/2000 -0000, you wrote:
>Are Imperial Ships of the Azhanti High Lightning Class Dry or Wet as regards
>alcohol?
I've always seen them as wet, but MTU tends to be rather Victorian. Not
just the High Lightnings, but any vessel of Cruiser level or higher.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 13:02:11
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Your Name in Vilani & Zhodani
At 12:20 PM 3/6/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>Plus, I'm also adding a pre-Beta page for converting
>your name into Zhodani (I'm not as sure about it, so
>suggestions would be welcome).
>Example 1: Douglas Berry
>Bzhdryslez Qadzhdrebr
glork. That's just special.
I think you need a mechanism for cases like the first five letters of "my"
name, where you get an excessive run of consonants. Perhaps inserting a
vowel anytime that three or more consonants run together.
Bzhidryslez
Buzz-Hi-DRY-sleeze
Qadzhidrebr
Kwad-Shee-REE-Ber
hmmm... Buzz Qadzhdrebr, Space Ranger?
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"Non possum existimare plus quemquem facini"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 16:20:38 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: Evil mind-raping Zhodani (was re: Using no ground troops (longish))
Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>Up until now we weren't talking about the Hivers or Zhos. The Hivers aren't
>interested in conquest at any level, and the Zhos just want to keep the
>Imperium out.
Add to this - when the Zhodani *have* taken a planet, as they've
occasionally had to do during their wars of containment against the
3I, they've done it the old fashioned way, with soldiers on the ground.
Considering how the Zhos feel about poking around inside the criminally
insane monstrosity that is a "normal" 3I citizen's brain, I'll bet the
Zhos really don't have that good a handle on what propaganda would
work on a 3I world. They understand their proles and their nobles, but
they've been molding these brains since birth and moderating the
psychological environment these brains were raised in for generations.
People in the 3I can have motivations that would make a Zho turn white
just to hear about, much less understand how to manipulate.
You might understand dogs, that doesn't mean you understand wolves.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 14:55:21 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Your Name in Vilani & Zhodani
Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>
> At 12:20 PM 3/6/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>
> >Plus, I'm also adding a pre-Beta page for converting
> >your name into Zhodani (I'm not as sure about it, so
> >suggestions would be welcome).
>
> >Example 1: Douglas Berry
>
> >Bzhdryslez Qadzhdrebr
>
> glork. That's just special.
>
> I think you need a mechanism for cases like the first five letters of "my"
> name, where you get an excessive run of consonants. Perhaps inserting a
> vowel anytime that three or more consonants run together.
How about it being a language like hebrew, where the vowels between
consonants are assumed.
> Bzhidryslez
>
> Buzz-Hi-DRY-sleeze
Here, this is a ten foot pole...see...I'm not touching it... ;-)
> Qadzhidrebr
>
> Kwad-Shee-REE-Ber
>
> hmmm... Buzz Qadzhdrebr, Space Ranger?
Damn! There's even a _penguin_ in TS2, too! Aiiieee! They're EVERYWHERE!
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 13:55:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: re: Question of temperance
>From: "Nick Wright"
This is a complicated question in the Imperium, where different
species may have radically different responses to different
intoxicants. What intoxicants are sufficiently accepted
socially to be considered appropriate for consumption on a naval
vessel? Alcohol for humans seems likely (it's been extremely
popular on this world for at least 3,000 years, so why not 3,000
years into the future). Do other species like alcohol? What
else do they consume?
Here's my thinking on the issue: The largest sophont
populations in the Imperium are, in order, humans (including
minor human races), then Vargr, then Aslan, others. Humans and
Vargr can use the same equipment interchangeably (except
possibly vacc suit helmets and the like). Most ship crews are
accordingly all human, all human and Vargr, all Aslan, and all
Vargr, in that order. "All" means all except for a few crew
members of other species (Virushii, Vegan, Ael Yael, etc.).
As to humans, I assume that there is a drug that can neutralize
the effects of alcohol intoxication in minutes (that might even
be canon), so IN ships are wet, and alcohol may be consumed by
off duty personnel. Off-duty personnel take the anti-intoxicant
upon first level alert condition. Even so, being _drunk_ aboard
ship is a Naval Justice offense. Drunk is defined as some
blood-alcohol percentage (maybe a fairly high percent), but is
enforced against drunk-and-disorderly types. (If you're just
sitting there bombed and no officer notices it, you're probably
ok. Start a fight in the mess hall and you're in deep
sneakers.)
Anti-intoxicants are probably available for other species and
drugs, as well, so the problem of intoxicated personnel is
minimized.
How do Vargr react to alcohol? Somewhat like humans, I think,
if my very limited experience observing dogs consume alcohol is
any guide. (They drink a lot, then wobble around, throw up,
drink water, and lie down looking unhappy.)
What about Aslan?
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 13:58:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: re: Self-sufficient planets
>From: Walter Smith
>Subject: re: Self-sufficient planets
>Glenn Goffin wrote:
>>You can't trust that Cr600,000 figure from the LBBs. I've
>>designed fairly average air/rafts using Striker for various
>>tech levels, and they came out around Cr10,000 to Cr20,000, if
>>I recall correctly. So they should be ubiquitous.
>
>How did you get around the Cr200,000 cost on a minimum size
>fusion plant? Or were reductions in cost due to technology
>levels sufficient? Were you working with other power sources
>instead?
I don't recall. I'll see if I can find my old designs (from the
days before personal computers -- they exist only in hard copy).
It seems to me that I was using fusion power plants. Maybe I
interpolated down from the stated 1 m3 minimum size.
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 16:12:36 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Any T4 Ship Requests?
Les_Howie@keane.com wrote:
>
> Black ICE wrote:
> >So, does anybody have any requests for other ships?
>
> I'd like to see a no-compromoses great big honk'n superdreadnaught, just to be
> able to provide a baseline on the ultimate in self propelled violence.
How does 1,000,000 dtons of carnage strike you? I have a
nearly-completed draft, just need to polish it a bit....
>
> Great site! Lots of very useful designs.
Thanks!
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 23:22:27 CET
From: "Patrik Holmström"
Subject: Phone rates
>I suppose this makes sense when Europeans are used to paying for >internet
>connect time *per minute*. How do you pay for ISDN or >other high speed
>telephone line access?
I pay 50 swedish kronor per month for my 10-Mbit line :) (I just had to say
that). 50 Skr = 4£ = 6-7$. The mayor player on the swedish telecom market,
Telia (owed by the goverment), introduced uniform rates for calls within
Sweden last week (the monopoly was abandoned last year). I don't know about
other companies (not even the one I use).
Patrik Holmström
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 11:22:56 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: RE: Let's Vote for Traveller
On 5 Mar 00, at 19:39, Luther Martin wrote:
> The voting seems to track you by IP address. You can get in 5 votes per IP
> before it complains. If you are running Windows, start winipcfg, free the
> existing address and get a new one, and there you go, 5 more votes. You
> probably can't do this over a dial-up connection.
>
> Or so I have heard.
Aye, but if youre ISP is using dynamic IP allocation (as mine does),
just dial in again, and again, and again...
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 11:39:44 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Noisy Grenades (was: Re: Silent Firearms...)
On 6 Mar 00, at 17:40, The Roc wrote:
> Australian doctrine seemed to emphasise the destruction of enemy cardboard
> boxes or garbage bins (I kid you not...) as these were often placed on the
> grenade range and you had to "lob the prick" (the grenade, pardon the
> language - it was the actual instruction terminology at the time... and if
> I were to write "pr*ck" or the like, I'm sure the exact same meaning would
> come across, hiding nothing?) as close to them as possible. Often, these
> pieces of high-tech enemy equipment (owned by some mob called the
> "Saturnians" or "Saltarians" or the like... this may have changed in the
> last 20 or so years?) would be represented by a circle drawn on the ground
> :)
When I was in it was the "Missorans" (or somesuch spelling), who had a
TO and equipment that were remarkably similar to those of Indonesia.
Same tactical doctrines and templates, too.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 11:42:23 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Question of temperance
On 6 Mar 00, at 12:52, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> At 08:24 PM 3/6/2000 -0000, you wrote:
>
> >Are Imperial Ships of the Azhanti High Lightning Class Dry or Wet as
> >regards alcohol?
>
> I've always seen them as wet, but MTU tends to be rather Victorian. Not
> just the High Lightnings, but any vessel of Cruiser level or higher. --
It never occured to me that they wouldn't be. Mind you, IMTU the Terran
military borrows many of its traditions from such units as the FFL.
Like in Pournelle's Co-dominion stories there's no penalty for
drinking, only being drunk on duty.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 14:49:01 -0800
From: "Mike Linsenmayer"
Subject: GasBg HoloRecorder Pics and Rule Of Man Coins
I am working on a ohh... tech 10 GasBg Holo Recorder/Player and a Rule Of
Man Coins.
Posted here:
http://www.bigbailey.com/vspace/art/projects_under_construction.htm
let me know what you guys think.
Mike
- ---------------------------------------
http://www.bigbailey.com
michael@bigbailey.com
- ---------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 11:53:19 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: re: Self-sufficient planets
On 6 Mar 00, at 11:52, Glenn Goffin wrote:
> >From: Walt Smith
>
> >Air/Raft - Cr600000
> >Car - Cr10000?
> >Maybe "common as light aircraft", rather than "common as
> SUV's".
>
> You can't trust that Cr600,000 figure from the LBBs. I've
> designed fairly average air/rafts using Striker for various tech
> levels, and they came out around Cr10,000 to Cr20,000, if I
> recall correctly. So they should be ubiquitous.
OTOH using FFS air-rafts do cost around MCr0.5.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 17:02:27 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Question of temperance
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
>
> At 08:24 PM 3/6/2000 -0000, you wrote:
>
> >Are Imperial Ships of the Azhanti High Lightning Class Dry or Wet as regards
> >alcohol?
>
> I've always seen them as wet, but MTU tends to be rather Victorian. Not
> just the High Lightnings, but any vessel of Cruiser level or higher.
Note that nearly all AuricTech warship designs of destroyer and larger
size include one or more crew lounges, where "potent potables" may be
consumed. Most of these lounges have an Ordinary galley attached, as a
snack bar. Were I a deckplans artist, I would put these lounges near
sick bays when possible, so that they could be used as casualty
collection/triage stations during combat.
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 15:10:09 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: RE: Silent Weapons
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> Sorry, but according to the articles I've read on real world lasers,
> the parameter of interest is Watts/cm^2. That's obtained by dividing
> the beam energy by the cross-sectional area. I don't recall the
> cricitical value, except that it was in MW/cm^2, and wasn't a big number.
In my limited experience with lasers, I've focused both HeNe and Ar ion
lasers down to very small, essentially diffraction-limited spots. One of the
Ar ion lasers was a big one (as semiconductor lab equipment goes), and put
out a bit over 1 W.
For the laser operating at 0.488 or 0.512 microns, this gives us about 1e8
W/cm^2, but I never saw any sort of plasma generation at all.
I'm getting tired of all this speculation. I want to build a laser weapon.
Try convincing your wife that *that's* a good use of money.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 15:15:27 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: RE: Silent Weapons
Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Of course, I have no idea where your volume number comes from, as
> the 'volume'
> heated by a laser weapon doesn't have much to do with beam duration.
For a short pulse travelling at the speed of light, what we really have is a
little cylinder of laser light travelling from the weapon to its target. I
assumed that the energy in the pulse was evenly spread throughout this
cylinder, and ignored any diffraction effects, so that the beam did not
spread as it travelled.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 15:39:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: Silent Weapons
Luther Martin writes:
> Anthony Jackson wrote:
>
> > Of course, I have no idea where your volume number comes from, as
> > the 'volume'
> > heated by a laser weapon doesn't have much to do with beam duration.
>
> For a short pulse travelling at the speed of light, what we really have is
> a little cylinder of laser light travelling from the weapon to its target.
> I assumed that the energy in the pulse was evenly spread throughout this
> cylinder, and ignored any diffraction effects, so that the beam did not
> spread as it travelled.
The actual volume taken up by the laser beam is pretty much irrelevant. The
volume one wants is * beam width, since that's the
volume that heat will be absorbed through. In air with visible light the 1/e
range is likely to be 20+ km, meaning that for a 1 cm laser beam the volume
we're interested in is at least 2 cubic meters.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 16:55:49 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: GasBg HoloRecorder Pics and Rule Of Man Coins
EEEeeeewwww Yuuuuck!
A typical cheezoid gasbag product with the crappy membrane keyboard.
And look at that, it's using Microsoft InActive3Dx 2.0
display...Quicktime 17.2 is soooo much better...;-)
I'd like to see one of the coins face-on...
Mike Linsenmayer wrote:
>
> I am working on a ohh... tech 10 GasBg Holo Recorder/Player and a Rule Of
> Man Coins.
>
> Posted here:
> http://www.bigbailey.com/vspace/art/projects_under_construction.htm
>
> let me know what you guys think.
>
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 19:08:38 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: Underwater habitats
In a message dated 3/6/00 8:59:59 AM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
> So dumping someone out the lock isn't much of a punishment.
It is when you lock the door afterwards :)
(which was part of the idea).
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 19:25:19 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: The Lost Supplements ARRIVE
Just wanted to say mine have arrived. While I haven't opened it
completely I do have to say Paul put a lot of work into it and the extras are
definitely nifty.
I even have free drinks at Brubecker's complinents of the SPA :)
Actually, it's so nifty and nicely packaged I'm not sure I want to open
it :)
Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 16:42:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: your name here! in Vilani and Zhodani
this must be a slow day at work
Glenn MacRae Goffin
Giirean Nibbaagumakere
Zaven'nleze'vaztlas
The Zhodani table needs a little work, I think (well, it is
listed as pre-beta). goffinnnelg gives three "n"s in a row,
which don't get changed. I put in a glottal stop "'".
Another result is Zaven'nleze'vvaztlas, but the double v after
the glottal stop seems too difficult, even for a Zhodani.
I've forgotten most of the noble suffixes. -ieshepr is
intendant, I think, and -tlas is something above that.
When is the Gvegh table coming out?
- --Giirean
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 19:52:26 -0500
From: "Vincent P. Runci"
Subject: RE: Using no Ground Troops
"All you really need is warbots which can detect weapons and
target accurately. TL 12 or 13 should do that just fine. I would
imagine the Hivers could easily create such warbots. Make them
master-slave robots (one central robot brain) and they won't even
be that costly."
Seems to be me that the Hivers wouldn't have to bother creating warbots.
Once you subjugate a race through manipulation or subliminal messsages,
it is a lot more cost efficient to use them to do your dirty work. In fact,
that
is exactly what they did with the Ithklur.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 10:49:04 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley"
Subject: Re: Interstellar Democracies in YTU
> From: Ingo Heinscher
> Oh, they _were_ idealists, no doubt. But they didn't seem to think of the
> peasants, but their ideology. That _ideology_ may have had the peasants
> in mind upon its creation, but that initial idea behind it all, I say,
> was somehow lost to them by the time they killed all those poor people.
> And, BTW, each other.
Well, there _is_ something interesting about the revolutionaries of this
period (not just in France): they tended to organise in secret societies.
One of these existed for a time in southern Germany. It was called the
Bavarian Illuminati...
We make jokes about the Illuminati on this list, but in the late 18th and
early 19th centuries various conspiratorial groups _did_ exist, and were
planning, and sometimes leading revolutions (and wars) all over the place.
Of course they weren't the cartoon ahistorical all-powerful
global(/interstellar) Conspiracy that we protray them as, but rather they
were small, often short-lived (literally, in some cases) cliques that did,
in some cases, actually have an impact on history.
So if you really want to, you can look at the various factions of the
leadership of the French revolution as being factions of the Illuminati -
and you wouldn't be wrong!
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 11:20:43 +1000
From: "Scout Harris"
Subject: RE: Using no Ground Troops
- --
On Mon, 6 Mar 2000 19:52:26 Vincent P. Runci wrote:
>Seems to be me that the Hivers wouldn't have to bother creating warbots.
>Once you subjugate a race through manipulation or subliminal messsages,
>it is a lot more cost efficient to use them to do your dirty work. In fact,
>that
>is exactly what they did with the Ithklur.
Except... maybe they create warbots to show the Ithklur that there is really no need for the Hivers to have a subjugated race with a warrior ethic, so it must be that the Ithklur are the Hivers' warriors through choice, because the hivers would 'prefer' to use warbots, it's just that the Ithklur 'insist' on being their warrior caste......
M.Scout
Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 19:49:30 -0600
From: Rob Eaglestone
Subject: Re: GasBg HoloRecorder Pics and Rule Of Man Coins
Now THAT is cool!
More coin pictures, please?
Mike Linsenmayer wrote:
>
> I am working on a ohh... tech 10 GasBg Holo Recorder/Player and a Rule Of
> Man Coins.
>
> Posted here:
> http://www.bigbailey.com/vspace/art/projects_under_construction.htm
>
> let me know what you guys think.
>
> Mike
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 20:47:45 -0500
From: "Michael Peters"
Subject: Re: Let's Vote for Traveller, Once Per Day
Well, in one evening from 38 to 514, and second from the top! Come'on
fellows we can be number one by the end of today! Get everyone with t
computer to vote!
Mike
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Eaglestone
To:
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2000 12:06 PM
Subject: Let's Vote for Traveller, Once Per Day
> Seems like you can place 5 votes *per day*.
> That's silly, but it also means we can really
> boost the numbers (Traveller tripled since
> yesterday).
>
> http://www.freevote.com/booth/best_rpg
>
> Rob
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 01:59:14 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: Barretts, et.al...
On Mon, 06 Mar 2000 00:07:24 -0600, Black ICE
wrote:
>
>
>
>2. If you don't want to feel the recoil of a Barrett, just hold the
>stock about 1"-2" in front of your shoulder. That way, you'll have some
>distance between your shoulder and the nasty recoil....
>
>
Evil, evil man.
;-)
================================================================================
- - Jeff Peterson j_pete@bellsouth.net
"'Need' now means wanting someone else's money. 'Greed' means wanting to keep
your own. 'Compassion' is when a politician arranges the transfer."
-Joseph Sobran
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
NOG #74 AirStar Nova 700
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 21:08:21 -0500
From: "Josh W. Spencer"
Subject: Re: Using no ground troops
Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>
> Then take the Russian partisans. Fueled solely by hatred of the Germans,
> many of the partisans in the Ukraine in in 1943 were the same folks who had
> welcomed the Germans as liberators in 41.
I wonder how to say "Oh My GOD! They Killed Kenny! YOU BASTARDS!" in Russki?
That I'll bet was their general attitude toward the Hitlerites.
- --
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)
VILANI ALIAS: Iashir Rekiinikimas Uiagam
Ypsilanti, Michigan, North America, Terra
Sol Subsector, Solomani Rim Sector
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2013
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From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)
To: traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #2013
Reply-To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
Subj: Traveller-digest V1999 #2014
Date: 3/7/00 1:20:55 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)
Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
Reply-to: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
To: traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
Traveller-digest Tuesday, March 7 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2014
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: jump to empty hexes?
Re: Let's Vote for Traveller, Once Per Day
Re: Let's Vote for Traveller, Once Per Day
Ship Crews in the RealWorld [tm]
Re: Noisy Grenades (was: Re: Silent Firearms...)
RE: Silent Weapons
Re: Let's Vote for Traveller, Once Per Day
Telemarketing
Re: Jump to empty hexes
Re: Your Name In Vilani
Re: jump to empty hexes?
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2013
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
Re: Using no ground troops
Re: Using no ground troops
Taunting message
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
Re: Your Name In Vilani
Re: jump to empty hexes?
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
SEC: UNCLASS - Re: There's gotta be an ObTrav here ......
RE: Shi-Kah-Gah
Man in the mud
re: Self-sufficient planets
Re: Chief Engineer on the Luuru
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 02:23:18 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: jump to empty hexes?
On Mon, 6 Mar 2000 17:50:21 +0000, SD Mooney
wrote:
>At 4:44 -0500 6/3/00, Re: jump to empty hexes? wrote:
>>Me neither, I like the astrography to have the effect of channeling
>>traffic. However, there was an interesting suggestion the other
>>day that jumping to an empty hex might be possible, just much more
>>difficult (and dangerous). Perhaps, it *could* be done, but the
>>chance of a misjump drasticly increases if you jump to an "empty"
>>hex? This leaves it open for possible use, but makes it something
>>that isn't commonly done.
>
>It is possible in canon, not that would matter to a heretic like
>yourself; The Traveller Adventure has a deep space jump, and the
>First Contact from the Solomani is a similar approach to Barnard's
>Star.
>
>Personally, I take a Cherryh-like approach which ties in with MM's
>T4.x draft - I assume that you need to find a dark mass (eg a comet)
>to jump deep space to.
>
That would jive with the Darrian's secret Special Arm base.
================================================================================
- - Jeff Peterson j_pete@bellsouth.net
"'Need' now means wanting someone else's money. 'Greed' means wanting to keep
your own. 'Compassion' is when a politician arranges the transfer."
-Joseph Sobran
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
NOG #74 AirStar Nova 700
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 12:23:07 +1000
From: "Scout Harris"
Subject: Re: Let's Vote for Traveller, Once Per Day
Has this just become a race between the Traveller Mailing List, and the Fading Suns Mailing List?
Scout
Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 18:27:10 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: Let's Vote for Traveller, Once Per Day
On Mon, 6 Mar 2000 20:47:45 -0500, Michael Peters wrote:
> Well, in one evening from 38 to 514, and second from the top! Come'on
> fellows we can be number one by the end of today! Get everyone with t
> computer to vote!
I was as surprised as you! Now it's at 535 (thanks to my late voting).
That nasty Warhammer: FRP is still third, however. Perhaps once Traveller
is in the quad digits we can start voting for some of our other favourites
:)
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Mary had a little lamb, a little beef, a little ham.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 20:44:37 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Ship Crews in the RealWorld [tm]
For those who want a RealWorld [tm] look at the ratios of officers to
enlisted in warship crews, check out the following Web site:
http://www.nvr.navy.mil/nvrships/index.htm
While not all listed ships have a complement breakdown, enough ships do
to make the look worthwhile.
- --
B-E-A-D-S
*@*@*@*@*@*
@ @
*@*@*@*@*@*
A-N-D
O O O
O O O O
O O O
D-O-U-B-L-O-O-N-S
HAPPY MARDI GRAS!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 19:18:04 -0800
From: "James W. Brewer"
Subject: Re: Noisy Grenades (was: Re: Silent Firearms...)
On 6 Mar 00, at 17:40, The Roc wrote:
> Australian doctrine seemed to emphasise the destruction of enemy cardboard
> boxes or garbage bins (I kid you not...) as these were often placed on the
> grenade range and you had to "lob the prick" (the grenade, pardon the
> language - it was the actual instruction terminology at the time... and if
> I were to write "pr*ck" or the like, I'm sure the exact same meaning would
> come across, hiding nothing?) as close to them as possible. Often, these
> pieces of high-tech enemy equipment (owned by some mob called the
> "Saturnians" or "Saltarians" or the like... this may have changed in the
> last 20 or so years?) would be represented by a circle drawn on the ground
> :)
The US Army liked the same calk circles in the dirt but added the further
fun of lobbing the grenade through a 6" x 24" slot in a simulated bunker
from less than 15' away. The Grenadiers got to do it with a M203 from
further out. Of course being in the Field Artillery our preferred method
would have been to use the 8" Howitzer to leave a crater where the bunker
used to be.
Jim Brewer
jwbrewer@ucsd.edu
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 19:11:13 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: RE: Silent Weapons
Actually, for most wavelengths, the 1/e range is much less than 20 km. I
have some good graphs of absorption vs wavelength. Email me off list if you
would like me to fax you a copy.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Anthony
> Jackson
> Sent: Monday, March 06, 2000 3:39 PM
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: Re: Silent Weapons
>
>
> Luther Martin writes:
> > Anthony Jackson wrote:
> >
> > > Of course, I have no idea where your volume number comes from, as
> > > the 'volume'
> > > heated by a laser weapon doesn't have much to do with beam duration.
> >
> > For a short pulse travelling at the speed of light, what we
> really have is
> > a little cylinder of laser light travelling from the weapon to
> its target.
> > I assumed that the energy in the pulse was evenly spread throughout this
> > cylinder, and ignored any diffraction effects, so that the beam did not
> > spread as it travelled.
>
> The actual volume taken up by the laser beam is pretty much
> irrelevant. The
> volume one wants is * beam width, since
> that's the
> volume that heat will be absorbed through. In air with visible
> light the 1/e
> range is likely to be 20+ km, meaning that for a 1 cm laser beam
> the volume
> we're interested in is at least 2 cubic meters.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 22:29:36 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Let's Vote for Traveller, Once Per Day
On 03/07/00 at 12:23 PM, "Scout Harris" said:
>
>Has this just become a race between the Traveller Mailing List, and the
>Fading Suns Mailing List?
Probably.
Personally, I'm not all that interested in stuffing the ballot box,
just didn't like seeing Traveller with 10 votes while Warhammer was
in the 300's. AFAIC, anywhere in the top 10 would be good
enough.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 00:05:18 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Telemarketing
<< GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
>In case you are wondering why they do this, telemarketing has a
>the higest response rate of any form of advertising, believe it or
>not.
You're kidding??!!! >>
I wish I was.
<< People on a regular basis actually buy from
companies which do this? I had always assumed it was done
merely because it was cheap enough to (barely) justify its
existence. If it actually is more effective that other forms of
advertising my view of humanity just slipped down another notch... >>
Someone in an MBA program can probably supply the numbers, but (3 years ago
at least) telemarketing sales had the highest response rate per unit of
currency expended How much junk mail do you throw away each day? How many
newspaper/magazine/TV ads do you ignore?
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 23:13:06 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Jump to empty hexes
On 03/06/00 at 05:46 PM, Hans Rancke-Madsen said:
>>I like the astrography to have the effect of channeling traffic.
>Simple economic effects means that astrography DOES channel traffic,
>especially when you only have jump 1 ships.
Certainly, but economic effects have less effect on military
movements than physically channeling them along mains.
Eris
ps. Wasn't it Mahan that said something like, "Control the capes and
straights and you control the seas."
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 21:25:47 -0800
From: Kristian Miller
Subject: Re: Your Name In Vilani
Rob Eaglestone wrote:
> > >Karishira Nariiririimaalamaarin
> > ^^^^
> > You could probably drop one of those ri's
>
> Oh, no! You wouldn't want to do that! That would
> make the otherwise harmless "riiririima" into the
> "riiriima" (archaic form "riirima"), which we all
> know to be an extremely insulting slur on the Vilani
> culture on Shuurdiikha (Vland 2440 C652569-B S Ni Po).
Rob,
You got that right! Besides, I like the "fire engine siren" qualitiy of
this name: "reee-re-reee...."
Kristian
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 23:19:10 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: jump to empty hexes?
On 03/06/00 at 05:50 PM, SD Mooney said:
>It is possible in canon, not that would matter to a heretic like
>yourself; The Traveller Adventure has a deep space jump, and the First
>Contact from the Solomani is a similar approach to Barnard's Star.
>Personally, I take a Cherryh-like approach which ties in with MM's T4.x
>draft - I assume that you need to find a dark mass (eg a comet) to jump
>deep space to.
I've using that approach in my Akus game and won't change it
mid-stream. OTOH, as a general rule I could go any of various
ways: no empty space jumps, higher risk empty space jumps, or dark
mass jumps. I'd prefer to not use unaffected jumps to empty spaces,
but that's just my own personal preference.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 00:20:59 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2013
> > Then take the Russian partisans. Fueled solely by hatred of the Germans,
> > many of the partisans in the Ukraine in in 1943 were the same folks who
had
> > welcomed the Germans as liberators in 41.
>
> I wonder how to say "Oh My GOD! They Killed Kenny! YOU BASTARDS!" in
> Russki?
> That I'll bet was their general attitude toward the Hitlerites.
Only partisan I ever met said he was 13 when the Wehrmacht poured gasoline on
his grandfather and ignited it. He's got some scarey stories about the area
around Minsk, 1941-1944.
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 23:38:22 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
On 03/06/00 at 08:12 PM, Ingo Heinscher said:
>Here you encounter the manpower problem. People are born and grow up
>right _here_, on the "homeworld" at the one end of Vilani space. If you
>want to establish new colonies, you need people to man that colony. Using
>only those guys rimward would mean that population density would quickly
>drop there, making trade there much less efficienzt or profitable. Fewer
>consumers. If you want to prevent this you have two possible strategies
>at hand:
Ingo, you are making an assumption that may not be valid. You are
assuming that the Vilani are interested in establishing new
colonies. The Vilani had several thousand years to expand and
during that time acquired control of a large empire of stars.
Although they *controlled* a huge empire that doesn't mean they
exported large numbers of ethnic Vilani thoughout that empire.
Personally, I picture the Vilani mindset as being little interested
in exploration or building colonies on undeveloped worlds. What
would interest them is controlling already developed worlds. Why
export your own consumers when they are already there and all you
need to do is "regulate their trade."
I've always thought that one reason the ZS collapsed so quickly was
that the Vilani overlords were spread *very* thinly throughout the
empire. There really were lots of worlds with a literal handfuls of
people working a few mines or growing a cash crop, and many more
with a handful of Vilani overseeing large low tech native
populations. Given that situation, the Terrans once they broke
though the ZS border fleets simply rolled across the stars.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 20:00:02
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Using no ground troops
At 09:08 PM 3/6/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>I wonder how to say "Oh My GOD! They Killed Kenny! YOU BASTARDS!" in Russki?
>That I'll bet was their general attitude toward the Hitlerites.
In many places, the Germans were seen as relief from Stalin's excesses.
Remember that the area had been hit hard by the famines and purges of the
1930s. The Ukraniabns then found themselves in the hands of the SS who did
things like reprisal killings, and they learned of the wholesale slaughter
of Russian POWs.
The Germans did manage to raise a Ukranian SS unit. It was not employed on
the Eastern Front.
This is a prime case of the people prefering the devil they knew. Stalin
may have been a monster, but at least he spoke proper Russian and used the
same alphabet!
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 23:59:57 -0600 (CST)
From: houstonshocky@webtv.net
Subject: Re: Using no ground troops
Douglas E. Berry wrote:
Then take the Russian partisans. Fueled solely by hatred of the Germans,
many of the partisans in the Ukraine in in 1943 were the same folks who
had welcomed the Germans as liberators in 41.
I wonder how to say "Oh My GOD! They Killed Kenny! YOU BASTARDS!" in
Russki? That I'll bet was their general attitude toward the Hitlerites.
Oh meu deus, mataram Kenny! Os bastardos!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 22:48:24 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: Taunting message
Traveller is currently the Number One RPG Of All Time, per the poll at
http://www.freevote.com/booth/best_rpg. How did this happen? That's right,
*I* cast the votes, oops, I mean vote, which put it over the top.
I immediately noticed two potential dificulties.
First, my votes, oops, I mean vote, gave Traveller a total of 666 votes.
Next, my voting finished at exactly 10:40. (This number may not mean
anything to non-Americans.)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 23:03:40 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
On Mon, 6 Mar 2000 15:31:30 -0500, Walter Smith wrote:
> Ingo Heinscher wrote:
> >So you say that a new colony doesn't produce anything that is interesting
> >for export? Why found any colony, then? I think we can fairly assume that
> >there are economic reasons for founding colonies, otherwise the Vilani
> >wouldn't have founded them, be it along the Vilani Main or anywhere.
>
> A world four jumo-1 away along a j-1 main will take just as long to get to
> as a world four j-1's of deep space away, but you forget a crucial
> difference: in almost every system along that main, a merchant ship
> can refuel, often for free. Thus it took four to six weeks to move a normal
> trader hull that was 80% cargo, instead of a rift-crosser hull that was 80%+
> fuel. The economic difference is major, enough to explain traveling tens of
> parsecs along a J-1 main instead of moving 4 parsecs across a single rift.
> Especially since that J-1 main isn't empty space, it's worlds with starports.
Correction: it's worlds with starports *with stuff to trade*. Profit can
be made every step of the way along a jump-1 main, while the same is
impossible jumping through three intervening empty space hexes.
Another reason for the existence of the (more or less) straight boundary
along the coreward edge of the Ziru Sirka might be political-- the same
reason why national boundaries today also frequently have straight edges.
When the Vilani ran into the Vargr coreward of the empire, somebody might
have decided to make the boundary between Corridor/Vland/Lishun/Antares and
Provence/Windhorn/Meshan/Mendan nice and easy for both sides to remember.
There are other races that didn't expand spherically either-- most notably
the Aslan and the Vargr.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Mary had a little lamb, a little beef, a little ham.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 23:03:41 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: Your Name In Vilani
On Mon, 06 Mar 2000 09:16:02, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> At 09:01 AM 3/6/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>
> >> Iamesiriashira Denaiguuaaren
>
> I think that cutting it down to Denaiguaren would keep the spirit of the
> thing alive.
Time for a vowel movement...
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Mary had a little lamb, a little beef, a little ham.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 23:03:43 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: jump to empty hexes?
On Tue, 07 Mar 2000 02:23:18 GMT, Pete wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Mar 2000 17:50:21 +0000, SD Mooney
> wrote:
>
> >At 4:44 -0500 6/3/00, Re: jump to empty hexes? wrote:
> >>Me neither, I like the astrography to have the effect of channeling
> >>traffic. However, there was an interesting suggestion the other
> >>day that jumping to an empty hex might be possible, just much more
> >>difficult (and dangerous). Perhaps, it *could* be done, but the
> >>chance of a misjump drasticly increases if you jump to an "empty"
> >>hex? This leaves it open for possible use, but makes it something
> >>that isn't commonly done.
> >
> >It is possible in canon, not that would matter to a heretic like
> >yourself; The Traveller Adventure has a deep space jump, and the
> >First Contact from the Solomani is a similar approach to Barnard's
> >Star.
> >
> >Personally, I take a Cherryh-like approach which ties in with MM's
> >T4.x draft - I assume that you need to find a dark mass (eg a comet)
> >to jump deep space to.
> >
> That would jive with the Darrian's secret Special Arm base.
And the voyage of the "Arrival Vengeance".
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Mary had a little lamb, a little beef, a little ham.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 23:06:42 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
On Mon, 06 Mar 2000 23:38:22 -0600, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
> On 03/06/00 at 08:12 PM, Ingo Heinscher said:
>
> >Here you encounter the manpower problem. People are born and grow up
> >right _here_, on the "homeworld" at the one end of Vilani space. If you
> >want to establish new colonies, you need people to man that colony. Using
> >only those guys rimward would mean that population density would quickly
> >drop there, making trade there much less efficienzt or profitable. Fewer
> >consumers. If you want to prevent this you have two possible strategies
> >at hand:
>
> Ingo, you are making an assumption that may not be valid. You are
> assuming that the Vilani are interested in establishing new
> colonies. The Vilani had several thousand years to expand and
> during that time acquired control of a large empire of stars.
From the "Vilani and Vargr" timeline (p 18):
- -9800... first sublight mission to Tauri
- -9310... twin sublight mission discovers intelligent life
- -9235... Vilani discover jump-1 drive
- -8900... Economic Sphere reaches 10 parsecs
- -6000... Economic Sphere reaches 60 parsecs
- -5420... Vilani discover jump-2 drive
- -5400... Consolidation Wars begin
Note the amount of time it took from the discovery of jump travel until the
Vilani economic sphere reached a measly 10 parsecs in radius-- 335 years!
Note how it took them to expand to 60 parsecs-- 2,900 years after that!
During all that time (and for 580 more years), the Vilani were limited to
jump-1 drives.
Jump-2 drives are TL11, which is the only gauge I can find as to the actual
tech level of the Ziru Sirka at that time (-5420).
These points document how methodical and cautious the Vilani were during
their first 4,200 years in space. During that time, the population density
of the Empire flowed rimward. Technology of space travel was still in its
infancy by 3rd Imperium standards (the setting that most of us play in) so
"how things worked" back then isn't commonly discussed in canon. The
Starship Operator's Manual discusses "dimming of lights" to conserve power
prior to jump-- a tradition based on Vilani fact (they needed every
milliwatt of power, leading me to believe that misjumps were more common
than they are in the future eras).
> Although they *controlled* a huge empire that doesn't mean they
> exported large numbers of ethnic Vilani thoughout that empire.
> Personally, I picture the Vilani mindset as being little interested
> in exploration or building colonies on undeveloped worlds. What
> would interest them is controlling already developed worlds. Why
> export your own consumers when they are already there and all you
> need to do is "regulate their trade."
This is backed up by canon. On many occasions the Vilani encountered
worlds with already present human populations.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Man who run behind car get exhausted.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 15:35:59 +1100
From: "David Healey"
Subject: SEC: UNCLASS - Re: There's gotta be an ObTrav here ......
On 6 Mar 2000, Steve Hudson saith :
Some of you guys should just _love_ this:
http://ot810.web.worldonline.cz/
Trafficking stuff like this could prove amusing IYTU :>
For those Australians on the list, there's a mob in Sydney with one of these for sale for $18K. They also have a Centurion for $25K and a Ferret for $15K. There's another bloke in Victoria selling a street-legal Saracen armored car for $22K. Just the thing for parking around Melbourne !
Dauuid Ieagekhukuuke (I think)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 20:28:56 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: Shi-Kah-Gah
> On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
>
> And that reminds me of the fun in on of E.E. Smith's books. At one
> point they have a major election. And the bad guys plan to do all that
> stuff. Only the good guys first manage a "simultaneous" check of the
> voter rolls in every precinct. That eliminates the deaders, the moved
> to Florida, etc. Then they have folks at every precinct who
> (apparently) know every person on the rolls by sight, which elimiates
> the ringers. And they have (off duty) military personnel volunteering
> to escort voters past the thugs, etc.
I like Smiths's strike breaking in (I think) Subspace Explorers.
Rolling something like a small Ogre through the picket lines.
Mind you, the strikers had artillery and anti-tank weapons.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 07:43:48 +1100
From: "Karen and Michael Hughes"
Subject: Man in the mud
Anyone who surrenders lives. Except with the mind-control gases
>option, folks who surrender are even basically untouched by war,
>since there are no crazed troops burning their homes or performing
>Mei Lai (sp?) massacres in their backyards with their families.
So you say. Of course, you also the guy using bioagents.
My Lai. Great. *one* incident in over a decade of American presense. Why
don't you see what the VC did to people it didn't like?
The Dougmeyster
True true Doug, a nasty war on both sides with lots of soul destroying
nastery (both known and a hell of a lot unknown). But then, that's Counter
Insurgency for you - chalk it down to post colonialism.
Ob Trav; Imp marines go in to take a world and the Imp army garrisons? Jeez
that would crap our boys in BD off.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 01:24:54 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: re: Self-sufficient planets
>From: Glenn Goffin
>Subject: re: Self-sufficient planets
...
>>How did you get around the Cr200,000 cost on a minimum size
>>fusion plant? Or were reductions in cost due to technology
>>levels sufficient? Were you working with other power sources
>>instead?
>
>I don't recall. I'll see if I can find my old designs (from the
>days before personal computers -- they exist only in hard copy).
> It seems to me that I was using fusion power plants. Maybe I
>interpolated down from the stated 1 m3 minimum size.
Fusion goes below 1m^3 in B:8; ditto fuel cells. A TL 8 MHD turbine
can power a (very) limited-endurance A/R well enough.
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 01:25:04 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Chief Engineer on the Luuru
>From: Walter Smith
>Subject: Chief Engineer on the Luuru
...
>However, he is also better at his job - Engineering-4 - than anyone else
...
>until his natural talents for Engineering started to make his career?
Somehow they couldn't help but promote him. Maybe it's the accent? :)
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2014
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, March 7 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2015
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
The Demon Drink
Partisan Goodness
Re: Partisan Goodness
Re: GasBg HoloRecorder Pics and Rule Of Man Coins
Re: Noisy Grenades (was: Re: Silent Firearms...)
re: Self-sufficient planets
RE: Shi-Kah-Gah
Miniature photo page update
Re: Your Name In Vilani
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 15:21:17 +0100
Re:Rule Of Man Coins TML #2013
Re: Chief Engineer on the Luuru
Re: Your Name in Vilani & Zhodani
Re: Underwater habitats
Re: Underwater habitats
Re: Using no ground troops
Re: call charges
Re: GasBg HoloRecorder Pics and Rule Of Man Coins
Re: Let's Vote for Traveller, Once Per Day
Re: Your Name in Vilani & Zhodani
Re: Your Name in Vilani & Zhodani
Re: Your Name In Vilani
Re: Man in the mud
Re: Imperial expansion to trailing
Re: Let's Vote for Traveller, Once Per Day
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 08:21:56 +1100
From: "Karen and Michael Hughes"
Subject: The Demon Drink
As to humans, I assume that there is a drug that can neutralize
the effects of alcohol intoxication in minutes (that might even
be canon), so IN ships are wet, and alcohol may be consumed by
off duty personnel. Off-duty personnel take the anti-intoxicant
upon first level alert condition. Even so, being _drunk_ aboard
ship is a Naval Justice offense. Drunk is defined as some
blood-alcohol percentage (maybe a fairly high percent), but is
enforced against drunk-and-disorderly types. (If you're just
sitting there bombed and no officer notices it, you're probably
ok. Start a fight in the mess hall and you're in deep
sneakers.)
- - --Glenn
Harry Harrison in the Stainless Steel Rat series had the Drive Right Pill
(SS rat's revenge)
Small, round pink, with a black skull and crossbones on it. A sobering
invention of some mad chemist that worked like a metabolic vacuum cleaner.
Short minutes after hitting the hydrochloric acid pool of my stomach the
ingredients would be doing a blitzkrieg attack through my blood stream. Not
only does it remove all of the alcohol but strips away all the side products
associated with drinking as well, so that the pitiful subject is instantly
cold sober and painfully aware of it.
Now that is some Sci Fi writin'
Michael
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 08:47:15 +1100
From: "Karen and Michael Hughes"
Subject: Partisan Goodness
Only partisan I ever met said he was 13 when the Wehrmacht poured gasoline
on
his grandfather and ignited it. He's got some scarey stories about the area
around Minsk, 1941-1944.
LKW
Apologies for the lighter note vein coming on the end of this.
A friend of mine's dad was a Partisan in Yugoslavia (I think). Toward the
end of the war (WWII) they took out a convoy packed to the gills with
Deutschmarks. Thinking (quite rightly) that the currency was soon to be
worthless, they burned the lot to the ground (about a billion marks they
figured).
Any hoose, said Partisan dad took a trip to East Germany before the wall
came down and discovered that the same currency was in use.
He cried like a baby.
Michael
Ob Trav; The writers of TAS Journal had a whole bunch of 'Viva the
Revolution' scenarios going. And why the hell not? You get to see places,
meet new people and vandalise on a grand scale. Frankly HMO's should
subsidise this.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 01:54:53 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: Partisan Goodness
Toward the
> end of the war (WWII) they took out a convoy packed
> to the gills with
> Deutschmarks. Thinking (quite rightly) that the
> currency was soon to be
> worthless, they burned the lot to the ground (about
> a billion marks they
> figured).
>
> Any hoose, said Partisan dad took a trip to East
> Germany before the wall
> came down and discovered that the same currency was
> in use.
>
> He cried like a baby.
Actually,he lied.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 06:49:26 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: GasBg HoloRecorder Pics and Rule Of Man Coins
In a message dated 3/6/00 6:09:24 PM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
>
> Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 14:49:01 -0800
> From: "Mike Linsenmayer"
> Subject: GasBg HoloRecorder Pics and Rule Of Man Coins
>
> I am working on a ohh... tech 10 GasBg Holo Recorder/Player and a Rule Of
> Man Coins.
>
> Posted here:
> http://www.bigbailey.com/vspace/art/projects_under_construction.htm
>
> let me know what you guys think.
Not bad, but they need to be different. I believe there was a holorecorder
drawing in one of the Traveller Digest Magazines for instance. I'd also tend
to drop the keyboard for a holographic control panel.
As for the coins. They would be more unique if given another shape, maybe
triangular with rounded off corners.
Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 06:58:49 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: Noisy Grenades (was: Re: Silent Firearms...)
In a message dated 3/7/00 1:20:55 AM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
> Re: Noisy Grenades (was: Re: Silent Firearms...)
>
> On 6 Mar 00, at 17:40, The Roc wrote:
> > Australian doctrine seemed to emphasise the destruction of enemy
> cardboard
> > boxes or garbage bins (I kid you not...) as these were often placed on
> the
> > grenade range and you had to "lob the prick" (the grenade, pardon the
> > language - it was the actual instruction terminology at the time... and
> if
> > I were to write "pr*ck" or the like, I'm sure the exact same meaning
> would
> > come across, hiding nothing?) as close to them as possible. Often, these
> > pieces of high-tech enemy equipment (owned by some mob called the
> > "Saturnians" or "Saltarians" or the like... this may have changed in the
> > last 20 or so years?) would be represented by a circle drawn on the
> ground
> > :)
>
>
> The US Army liked the same calk circles in the dirt but added the further
> fun of lobbing the grenade through a 6" x 24" slot in a simulated bunker
> from less than 15' away. The Grenadiers got to do it with a M203 from
> further out. Of course being in the Field Artillery our preferred method
> would have been to use the 8" Howitzer to leave a crater where the bunker
> used to be.
And the Marines would have the Navy lob a 16-inch shell to make the hole
bigger :) in the good old days.
Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 22:45:42 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley"
Subject: re: Self-sufficient planets
> From: Glenn Goffin
> >How did you get around the Cr200,000 cost on a minimum size
> >fusion plant? Or were reductions in cost due to technology
> >levels sufficient? Were you working with other power sources
> >instead?
>
> I don't recall. I'll see if I can find my old designs (from the
> days before personal computers -- they exist only in hard copy).
> It seems to me that I was using fusion power plants. Maybe I
> interpolated down from the stated 1 m3 minimum size.
Were you using the Andrew Keith "Civilian Vehicles in Striker" article? It
suggested loosening the minimum volumes.
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 23:46:30 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley"
Subject: RE: Shi-Kah-Gah
> From: "Frank G. Pitt"
> > And that reminds me of the fun in on of E.E. Smith's books. At one
> > point they have a major election. And the bad guys plan to do all that
> > stuff. Only the good guys first manage a "simultaneous" check of the
> > voter rolls in every precinct. That eliminates the deaders, the moved
> > to Florida, etc. Then they have folks at every precinct who
> > (apparently) know every person on the rolls by sight, which elimiates
> > the ringers. And they have (off duty) military personnel volunteering
> > to escort voters past the thugs, etc.
>
> I like Smiths's strike breaking in (I think) Subspace Explorers.
>
> Rolling something like a small Ogre through the picket lines.
> Mind you, the strikers had artillery and anti-tank weapons.
I read the first scene (from one of the Lensman books) years before the
second. When I read the latter, I flashed on the other one, and thought:
hey, these could be the two parties of a two-party system! One thinks that
unionists should be run over by tanks, and the other quite happily uses all
kinds of psionic scams, like convincing the voters that telepaths can't
lie!
Yep. There's democracy for you.
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
Voting for Traveller, early and often....
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 09:11:30 -0500
From: Glenn Myers
Subject: Miniature photo page update
Heyo,
This is a general notice to any that might be interested that I have updated
my Traveller and Science Fiction miniatures web pages. I added several
unidentified SF gaming miniatures to the Science Fiction Misc. page.
I performed a color adjustment to all of the photographs using Adobe
Photoshop. In some cases, the improvement is dramatic! Especially the Manta
and the Lab Ship. The colors are richer and the backgrounds darker.
http://www.icubed.com/~gemyers/
Yesterday, my silent death miniatures arrived. I have to say I am quite
impressed by the Darrian Patrol Cruiser (renamed Javalin). I wanna buy me a
fleet of 'em. The long hull just reeks high tech.
The RQS Inspection Launch (Praying Mantis) is pretty nice, too. The scale is
way off but they will make nice Battle Rider Carriers. They look to be
tending 8 Riders. Although one side of one of mine is deformed :-(
Glenn
Glenn E. Myers
Email: glenn.myers@ansys.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 09:17:54 -0500
From: Ethan Henry
Subject: Re: Your Name In Vilani
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
> >> Iamesiriashira Denaiguuaaren
>
> I think that cutting it down to Denaiguaren would keep the spirit of the
> thing alive.
But remember - Vilani is a tonal language. Perhaps "uuaa" is
pronounced differently than "ua". Maybe "uu" is how they represent
a different inflection of "u" in the romanization system (galanglicization?)
"Denaiguuaaren" may be a legit surname, while "denaiguaren" may be
the Vilani term for "parboiled".
There is (allegedly) a complete sentence that can be made in some Chinese
dialect from just one sound ("na" maybe) with varying tones.
Ethan
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 15:21:17 +0100
From: "Russell Billman"
Subject: Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 15:21:17 +0100
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 07:30:19 -0700
From: "Eric T. Holmes"
Subject: Re:Rule Of Man Coins TML #2013
Mike Linsenmayer:
Looks great. Could we request plan views of the obverse and reverse?
Not as interesting, but a little more usuable for gaming.
I always thought they were "silver" in color.
Eric
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 01:12:50 -0600
From: Rob Eaglestone
Subject: Re: Chief Engineer on the Luuru
He sounds sort of like Steve Wozniak, co-founder of
Apple Computers. He loves to tinker with technology,
rather than rise in rank.
Walter Smith wrote:
>
> Int 8, Edu 7, Soc 5. 3 terms, IIRC. Engineering-4, Revolver-1, Vacc-2
>
> He has fewer terms in service than anyone else in the Engineering
> department - about ten crewmen, depending on whether you count
> the crewmen for Electronics Shop and Machine Shop. The sole
> exception is a Starman Engineer with only one term. (And this one-term
> Starman is more intelligent, better educated and higher class than the
> Chief Engineer. )
>
> Everyone else in the command section is Noble, or at least of the same
> social class as nobility. In fact, only one or two crewmen on the whole
> ship are lower class than he is.
>
> However, he is also better at his job - Engineering-4 - than anyone else
> on the whole ship. No one else has that skill level in anything, IIRC,
> and certainly none of the other Navy officers have a skill that high.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 01:15:51 -0600
From: Rob Eaglestone
Subject: Re: Your Name in Vilani & Zhodani
Stormhound wrote:
>
> And coming up soon from Eaglestone Enterprises: Your Name in English! A
> complete, 497-step system for converting your name to an English equivalent
> which is completely consistent with modern English spelling and pronunciation.
Hmmmm... I may have to think about that one... innnnterestinnnng...
Maybe "your name in Galanglic"?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 02:05:09 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Underwater habitats
In mail you write:
> In a message dated 3/5/00 3:02:31 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
>
>> Everyone seems to be considering *only* deep sea habitats. Just to
>> present some alternatives to think about...
>
> Actually I was considering continental shelf habitats at least in
> part (which go down to at least 300m IIRC). But it doesn't take long
> before you need special air mixes.
You need "special air mixes" for any sort of extended stay below around
10-20 meters.
> I was also presuming bonded superdense (or similar strength material)
> more for construction as opposed to steel or titanium.
The problem isn't strength, except inasmuch as "high strength" equals
"really, really expensive".
The problem is the difference in failure modes between "ambient
pressure" habs and "low pressure" habs. Low pressure means just about
any failure is a *major* problem.
>> Ideas to play with: solar and water temperature differential power,
>> large aquiculture farming areas, mineral extraction from sea water,
>> artificial gills.
>
> Usefulness varies with tech.
Mineral extraction from seawater tends to be of limited usefulness. But
a "typical" ocean ought to have lots of places where useful mineral
precipitated out like the manganese nodules in our oceans.
While I wouldn't put a city there, I suspect a "mine" & power plant
built around a "black smoker" would be fairly practical. The
temperature differences would allow a *very* efficent heat engine of
some sort, and the dissolved minerals are *valuable*.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 02:13:59 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Underwater habitats
In mail you write:
> In a message dated 3/6/00 8:59:59 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
>
>> So dumping someone out the lock isn't much of a punishment.
>
> It is when you lock the door afterwards :)
>
> (which was part of the idea).
I was just pointing out that they can swim/walk "next door".
I'd tend more towards tieing them up and either attaching them to a
float and watching them as they speed towards the surface ("pop goes
the crook") or sticking them in a small tank with a weight attached and
dropping them into a trench ("the big squeeze")
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 02:20:02 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Using no ground troops
In mail you write:
> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>Heck, I can think of a few dozen ways of killing warbots using nothing
>>more than wood, rope and rocks. From hundreds of yards away...
>
> As a side benefit, many of these methods will probably be hard for a
> robot (or even a telepresence operator) to identify as "weapons" until the
> warbot gets a sharpened, metal-tipped telephone pole through it's chassis.
> No power packs, no explosives, just springs and gears - and maybe not
> even those.
A device our local "seige engineers have built and used is a "traction
trebuchet". Rather than the usual massive counterweight, it has a
couple of long ropes, and a team of people who *pull* in unision.
Learning to pull together requires practice, but the results are quite
satisfactory.
I'd say one of these could be carried in the equivalent of a pickup
truck, along with a crew. And they'd be able to lob basketball sized
rocks a hundred yards or so. They can either abandon the materials
(some ropes, wooden poles, and a bit of metal) or take the more
important pieces with them.
Sure, it's not terribly accurate, but with a rate of fire of several
projectiles a minutes, it doesn't *need* to be. Besides, you can swap
size for number, and fling a "basket load" of smaller rocks. Say
basball sized.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 01:48:56 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: call charges
In mail you write:
>>> I suppose this makes sense when Europeans are used to paying for internet
>>> connect time *per minute*. How do you pay for ISDN or other high speed
>>> telephone line access?
>>
>>Same way they pall for *all* calls. At so many "units" per minute.
>>
>>As you'll discover in the telecom groups (and in Fidonet's
>>international echoes) folks outside the US and Canada have *real*
>>trouble grasping the way we pay for phone service here. They just don't
>>"get" the idea of unlimited local calling for a fixed monthly rate.
>>
> And local can vary widely: In Detroit (MI), calling the next township is a
> toll call, and townships start every few (single digit) miles; In fairbanks
> (AK), my travelling companion made a 355 NM distance "Local" call; From
> healy to fox is about 80 Miles... and both are local to each other and to
> fairbanks (which sits between them). I've made calls from Eklutna to
> Girdwood, some nearly 100 road miles distance, and it also was a "free"
> local call, but you had to have a phone which you could make toll-calls
> on....
Oh heck, for some time it was a toll call from various suburbs to
Portland, but *not* from Portland to the suburbs. Of course, this meant
poeople would call their friends in Portland and ask them to call right
back. Eventually, it dawned on the phone companies that asymetrical
rate schedules like that didn't do them any good.
But even then, we had the situation where it was a free call to
Portland from the suburbs, and a free call from the suburbs to
Portland, but *not* a free call between suburbs on opposite sides of
Portland. BBS operators solved *that* problem by getting friends in
Portland to get call forwarding, and forward their modem lines (which
they didn't want incoming calls on anyway) to the BBS's number in the
suburb. So folks who couldn't make a direct call free, made a call to
the Portland number, and were forwarded to the BBS (no toll charges on
either "leg" of the call.
Fidonet just put the "hubs" in Portland, and the folks from the suburbs
relayed their packets thru them.
I hear that down in California at one time there were systems set up
where you could reach a BBS via something like *8* call forwarding
hops!
The ObTrav should be obvious. If there's a loophole to exploit,
*somebody* will exploit it.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 16:26:36 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Re: GasBg HoloRecorder Pics and Rule Of Man Coins
Mike Linsenmayer wrote:
> I am working on a ohh... tech 10 GasBg Holo Recorder/Player and a
> Rule Of Man Coins.
Great image of the holo recorder/projector. It's lovely to have pictures
like this to show to players.
Now if someone would only design a typical starship control panel this
way... ;-)
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 16:30:50 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Re: Let's Vote for Traveller, Once Per Day
Eris wrote:
> Personally, I'm not all that interested in stuffing the ballot box,
> just didn't like seeing Traveller with 10 votes while Warhammer was
> in the 300's. AFAIC, anywhere in the top 10 would be good
> enough.
Too late... we're number one already :-)
Is it just me, or don't Vampire players vote as much as they
statistically should? :-)
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
(Vampire player)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 16:51:21 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Re: Your Name in Vilani & Zhodani
Rob Eaglestone wrote:
> By the way, did I mention that the conversion rules
> are now on my website?
My name (Jens 'Space' Rydholm) converts neatly (?) to:
Iienshirmukaakhdiirsmake
Splitting this up into (somewhat) comfortable parts gives:
Iienshir Mukaakh Diirsmake
This system is simply too good not to implement as a small computer
program... hmmm...
Do I have permission to try coding this beauty in C++ ?
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 09:57:33 -0600
From: Stormhound
Subject: Re: Your Name in Vilani & Zhodani
Rob Eaglestone wrote:
> Stormhound wrote:
> >
> > And coming up soon from Eaglestone Enterprises: Your Name in English! A
> > complete, 497-step system for converting your name to an English equivalent
> > which is completely consistent with modern English spelling and pronunciation.
>
> Hmmmm... I may have to think about that one... innnnterestinnnng...
> Maybe "your name in Galanglic"?
Sure, I think we can never have too many indecipherable options at our disposal.
(g) Then again, I'm a GM...I like confusing people. (eg)
Speaking of indecipherable, can anyone direct me to where I can find a font or
two...specifically the one I'm assuming is Vilani that I've seen around, as well as
any other Traveller-related ones that are floating about?
- --
Stormhound
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 07:36:43
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Your Name In Vilani
At 11:03 PM 3/6/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>On Mon, 06 Mar 2000 09:16:02, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>> I think that cutting it down to Denaiguaren would keep the spirit of the
>> thing alive.
>
>Time for a vowel movement...
Splort with Penguin Clusters...
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 07:53:58
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Man in the mud
At 07:43 AM 3/7/2000 +1100, you wrote:
>Anyone who surrenders lives. Except with the mind-control gases
>Ob Trav; Imp marines go in to take a world and the Imp army garrisons? Jeez
>that would crap our boys in BD off.
The Marine Force is mostly a raiding force. Thet excel at seizing landing
zones, but require quick support if the ground is to be held. They also are
*not* subtle.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 10:55:23 -0600 (CST)
From: Steven Bonneville
Subject: Re: Imperial expansion to trailing
Ingo Heinscher wrote:
> Well, on this I don't aggree. After all, against all what Cleon stated, the
> 3I wasn't anything but at first a way to expand the markets of the Sylean
> megacorps. And there _are_ good markets in the Domain of Gateway. The fact
> that Ley sector got its own Domain is proof for me that at least Artemus
> (was it he?) planned to expand in that direction.
>
> But something stopped that before it really began.
>
>
>
> What was it?
In the Azhanti game there's a passing mention of something called the
"Gateway collapses"; I don't know if there's any further mention of it
anywhere else, including now-retconned Judge's Guild material from the
same era. I think four AHLs were assigned to the area -- and I think
the other AHLs were in the Emperor's reaction fleet and trouble spots
like the Marches and Sol. I don't recall exactly what was said on
the subject.
You know, the only good maps we have of the Imperium are circa 1100; and
we know the empire has retreated in the Marches, and the entire rimward
frontier's seceded. It's possible that the empire has also receded in
the Glimmerdrift region....
Another interesting tidbit is that my sector data seems to show that
Delphi P is outside the Imperium (mostly client-states, though), but
that Glimmerdrift M has an Imperial pocket like Five Sisters. This
is a mild contradiction of the Imperial line maps I've seen, but is
potentially interesting. The other oddity is that the Rebellion
Sourcebook says Glimmerdrift is administered by *Delphi*, in the Core
Domain. I suspect that the administration of Glimmerdrift is split
between Delphi (the rimward pocket) and Ley (the coreward bulge), with
all sorts of potential political complications.
-- Steve
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 09:21:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: Let's Vote for Traveller, Once Per Day
eris@pcola.gulf.net writes:
> Probably.
>
> Personally, I'm not all that interested in stuffing the ballot box,
> just didn't like seeing Traveller with 10 votes while Warhammer was
> in the 300's. AFAIC, anywhere in the top 10 would be good
> enough.
A clear sign that no hackers have tried to stuff the ballot. It wouldn't
be that hard to generate a couple thousand votes for any given choice.
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2015
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, March 7 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2016
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Regina's government
Re: Using no ground troops
OT - Request for assistance
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
re: Taunting message
Re: MT Starship Design
Re: OT: The computer dials every number in an exchange
Re: The Demon Drink
Re: The low jump number question
Re: Question of temperance
Illumniati?(was: Re: Interstellar Democracies in YTU)
Re: Partisan Goodness
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
Re: Imperial expansion to trailing
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
re: Taunting message
Re: Your Name In Vilani
TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 11:23:32 -0500
From: "James Earl"
Subject: Re: Regina's government
> >From: Hans Rancke-Madsen
> >Subject: Regina's government (Was: Another example)
>
> >Um, where do you get the idea that Regina is ruled directly by
> >Norris? I don't recall seeing that anywhere. Well... _Behid the
>
> >Claw_ claims that Regina is Norris' personal fief, but that is
> >presumably a mistake, since Norris used to be a mere subsector
> >duke, who don't have fiefs of that size, and Regina is not the
> >Emperor's to give away -- it was a fully-developed world by
> >the time it joined the Imperium in 250 and up until the Civil
> >War only had a baron.
>
> I thought Yori, or maybe just part of it, was the personal fief
> of the Dukes of Regina. I don't recall the source.
>
Actually, it was my understanding that Regina was the domain of the Aledon
family, who just happened to also hold the hereditary title "Duke of
Regina". It seems likely to me that the ruler of Regina was made Subsector
Duke when Regina entered the Imperial fold, as opposed to the Subsector Duke
receiving Regina as his personal fief.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 09:29:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: Using no ground troops
Leonard Erickson wrote:
>Heck, I can think of a few dozen ways of killing warbots using nothing
>more than wood, rope and rocks. From hundreds of yards away...
I can think of a few dozen ways of killing normal troops from that distance
as well. To be honest, I have doubts about the viability of killing the
standard 'levitating brick of bonded superdense' style of warbots which tends
to be encouraged by most Traveller design sequences with improvised weapons,
and I suspect it would be extremely dangerous to try if you were anywhere
near your launching point (a halfway intelligent warbot program will have
collision avoidance and point defense and will probably dodge or shoot down
any improvised missiles).
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 11:54:40 -0600
From: "Pat Connaughton"
Subject: OT - Request for assistance
Greetings,
I know that many of the members of this
list have, on occasion, been involved with other
games than Traveller. It happens.
Along those lines, I'd like to request some help.
There is(was) a set of rules put out for role-playing and
tactical ship combat in the Napoleonic Era. Privateers &
Gentlemen was the RPG ruleset and Hearts of Oak was the
miniatures rules (Jon Williams put these out I believe).
I recently had a minor accident involving breakfast foods and
have now to try and replace the last two thirds of Heart of Oak.
My plea, does any member of the list have a copy of the Heart of
Oak rules and could I negotiate a settlement to gain a copy of said
rules?
Please advise.
Thanks
Pat Connaughton
ICQ # 2535086
pconn@i1.net
"He who knows not how to dissemble knows not
how to reign"
Tiberius, Emperator and Princips of Rome
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 09:54:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
>I've always thought that one reason the ZS collapsed so quickly
>was that the Vilani overlords were spread *very* thinly
>throughout the empire. There really were lots of worlds with a
>literal handfuls of people working a few mines or growing a
>cash crop, and many more with a handful of Vilani overseeing
>large low tech native populations. Given that situation, the
>Terrans once they broke though the ZS border fleets simply
>rolled across the stars.
And substituting a Terran military governor for a Vilani
executive manager would not be a big change for the locals. I
kind of like this approach.
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 09:56:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: re: Taunting message
>From: "Luther Martin"
>Subject: Taunting message
>Traveller is currently the Number One RPG Of All Time, per the
>poll at
http://www.freevote.com/booth/best_rpg.
How did this happen? That's right,. *I* cast the votes, oops, I
>mean vote, which put it over the top.
>I immediately noticed two potential dificulties.
>First, my votes, oops, I mean vote, gave Traveller a total of
>666 votes.
>Next, my voting finished at exactly 10:40. (This number may not
>mean anything to non-Americans.)
666 10:40 Luther Martin cryptography expert ... hmmm
Have you joined the Templars yet?
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 07:59:19 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: MT Starship Design
In mail you write:
> I'm looking at the MT Starship desing. Agility is computed as: (excess
> power output in megawatts / unloaded weight of craft in tons) x 5.4.
> Now, if I design the ship with 0 agility, and then want to design a higer
> agility, say 4 or even 6, then I have to add power plant volume to increase
> power output. But by adding power plant volume, I add weight. If the ship
> has a fuel purification plant, then that volume and consequentially weight
> increases also. I seem to be having difficulty increasing the agility, since
> adding power increases weight significantly, making agility a very costly
> option, both with price and volume. Does anyone have anything to say on this
> matter?
Welcome to the real world. Agility *is* hard to get for exactly that reason.
Later design systems went to the (very unrealistic) volume rather than
mass based setups for acceleration and the like because too many
players objected to having to go thru the process recursively. (Ie
they'd figure out what they needed, discover it weighed to muc to get
the acceleration or jump they wanted, and have to add stuff and cycle
thru again.)
But that *is* what happens in the real world. Or at least what
happens when you try to cut things too close.
Normally, you'd just accept the performance you wind up with. More
often, you try to find something you can do without. Failing that, you
make the "engine" more powerful (bigger & heavier) and have to redesign
everything around it.
That's *why* so many fighter planes (for example) have "quirks". To get
good performance in one area, they had to settle for poor performance
in another.
These days, we've got jet engines that can make *brick* into a high
performance craft, so it isn't as obvious. But you still have to make
compromises.
That was part of what I *liked* about CT and then MT. Players would
immediately try to build a J6, 6G ship. And discover that they
*couldn't*. At least not in the size ranges they had any hope of
owning. They had to pick and choose.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 08:11:10 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: OT: The computer dials every number in an exchange
In mail you write:
> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> Anyway, what you get is a bill noting that over the course of the
>> month, you've used XX number of units, which amounts to a charge of YY.
>> Period. *NO* details.
>
> That changed by now. You can get a detailed listing by now. The last three
> digits of every telefon-number are deleted.
In the US, with a few exceptions (for weird stuff like "local measured
service") you get a listing with the time, and *complete* telephone
number, as well as the name of the "rate center" it's in (which doesn't
always match the city for areas near boundaries between cities).
This means we can fairly easily call up the phone company and tell them
"Call #17 on my bill is wrong. I never called that number" or tell them
the duration is screwed up. Or even just that the other party never
answered. And they'll correct the bill most times.
>> As you'll discover in the telecom groups (and in Fidonet's
>> international echoes) folks outside the US and Canada have *real*
>> trouble grasping the way we pay for phone service here. They just don't
>> "get" the idea of unlimited local calling for a fixed monthly rate.
>
> As somebody else put it, we do understand idea, we just
> don't get the service.
My "local calling area" now extends from the Washington border down to
Woodburn. That's about 40 miles. It's about the same size east to West.
All for under $20/month ($2.85 of that is for having a larger than
"normal" local area)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 08:46:40 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: The Demon Drink
In mail you write:
> As to humans, I assume that there is a drug that can neutralize
> the effects of alcohol intoxication in minutes (that might even
> be canon), so IN ships are wet, and alcohol may be consumed by
> off duty personnel. Off-duty personnel take the anti-intoxicant
> upon first level alert condition. Even so, being _drunk_ aboard
> ship is a Naval Justice offense. Drunk is defined as some
> blood-alcohol percentage (maybe a fairly high percent), but is
> enforced against drunk-and-disorderly types. (If you're just
> sitting there bombed and no officer notices it, you're probably
> ok. Start a fight in the mess hall and you're in deep
> sneakers.)
>
>
>
> - --Glenn
>
> Harry Harrison in the Stainless Steel Rat series had the Drive Right Pill
> (SS rat's revenge)
>
> Small, round pink, with a black skull and crossbones on it. A sobering
> invention of some mad chemist that worked like a metabolic vacuum cleaner.
> Short minutes after hitting the hydrochloric acid pool of my stomach the
> ingredients would be doing a blitzkrieg attack through my blood stream. Not
> only does it remove all of the alcohol but strips away all the side products
> associated with drinking as well, so that the pitiful subject is instantly
> cold sober and painfully aware of it.
>
> Now that is some Sci Fi writin'
I prefer Terry Pratchett's description of the effects of Klatchian
coffee. Well, actually, the description of the description...
It makes you "knurd". Which doesn't mean much until he *describes* the
state of being knurd.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 08:23:15 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: The low jump number question
In mail you write:
> Leonard Erickson writes:
>
>>>However, there is an alternative:
>>>Build a 118dT ship at TL13 with 16dT of each drive.
>>>Then attaching drop tanks of 32, 40, 51, 65, 82, 104,
>>>131, 166, 210dT plus 45dT of onboard fuel allows ELEVEN jumps.
>>>(nb, this calculation assumes that the tank whose fuel is being
>>>used does not count towards jump displacement volume.)
>>
>>Except that drop tanks aren't available at TL 13 (or is this GURPS TL?).
>
> They're available at TL 9. They're just not invented until late 11th
> Century, so they're not available before the Classic Era (And there are
> people who'd like to excise them from the canon completely). Either way,
> drop tanks were not an option for the early Vilani expansion.
I have to note that barring any comments from Loren or Marc, I actually
think that drop tanks were an "Oh hell, how did we overlook *that*!"
item. And as such they actually ought to be available anyplace that has
the TL.
But I couldn't resist reviving the old argument just to trip up the "4
j-1s without refueling" folks.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 07:47:03 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Question of temperance
In mail you write:
> As to humans, I assume that there is a drug that can neutralize
> the effects of alcohol intoxication in minutes (that might even
> be canon), so IN ships are wet, and alcohol may be consumed by
> off duty personnel. Off-duty personnel take the anti-intoxicant
> upon first level alert condition. Even so, being _drunk_ aboard
> ship is a Naval Justice offense. Drunk is defined as some
> blood-alcohol percentage (maybe a fairly high percent), but is
> enforced against drunk-and-disorderly types. (If you're just
> sitting there bombed and no officer notices it, you're probably
> ok. Start a fight in the mess hall and you're in deep
> sneakers.)
Actually, given the wide variety of intoxicants likely to be available,
I suspect they'd go with somehing like the Royal Navy during the
Napoleonic era.
There was no rule about drinking, or using drugs, or any of a number of
other things. Instead, there was a rule about rendering oneself unfit
for duty.
This is nice because it deals with the *effect* rather than the
*cause*. Which means you can't wiggle out of it because nobody else had
ever gotten high on some obscure herb or chemical before. *How* you got
high doesn't matter, merely the fact that your reaction time and
judgement are shot.
This also applies if you do something stupid and land in sick bay.
Showing off that results in a broken arm can get you gigged for
rendering yourself unfit for duty, just as easily as over-indulging in
your intoxicant of choice.
And so can failure to use your rest period for *rest*.
> Anti-intoxicants are probably available for other species and
> drugs, as well, so the problem of intoxicated personnel is
> minimized.
Actually, short of nano-tech "scrubbers" that hunt down the intoxicant
inside the body, neutralization of intoxicants is not very likely. No
matter how popular the idea is in SF.
And such "scrubbers" can be used for far too many things that Traveller
*doesn't* want to have happen.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 18:27:49 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Illumniati?(was: Re: Interstellar Democracies in YTU)
At 10:49 07.03.00 +1000, Alan Bradley wrote:
>Well, there _is_ something interesting about the revolutionaries of this
>period (not just in France): they tended to organise in secret societies.
>One of these existed for a time in southern Germany. It was called the
>Bavarian Illuminati...
Isn't it intersting that those guys are not one-tenth as popular in Germany
than in the U.S.? I learned that they might have existed from a GURPS book...
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 18:47:56 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Partisan Goodness
At 01:54 07.03.00 -0800, you wrote:
> Toward the
>> end of the war (WWII) they took out a convoy packed
>> to the gills with
>> Deutschmarks. Thinking (quite rightly) that the
>> currency was soon to be
>> worthless, they burned the lot to the ground (about
>> a billion marks they
>> figured).
>>
>> Any hoose, said Partisan dad took a trip to East
>> Germany before the wall
>> came down and discovered that the same currency was
>> in use.
>>
>> He cried like a baby.
>
>Actually,he lied.
Well, at least he mistook several facts...
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 18:33:05 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
At 23:38 06.03.00 -0600, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
>On 03/06/00 at 08:12 PM, Ingo Heinscher said:
>
>>Here you encounter the manpower problem.
[snip]
>Ingo, you are making an assumption that may not be valid. You are
>assuming that the Vilani are interested in establishing new
>colonies. The Vilani had several thousand years to expand and
>during that time acquired control of a large empire of stars.
>Although they *controlled* a huge empire that doesn't mean they
>exported large numbers of ethnic Vilani thoughout that empire.
>Personally, I picture the Vilani mindset as being little interested
>in exploration or building colonies on undeveloped worlds. What
>would interest them is controlling already developed worlds. Why
>export your own consumers when they are already there and all you
>need to do is "regulate their trade."
Well, that is... that is... that is a damn good question! I must somehow
have overlooked those minor human and alien races...
:-)
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 18:58:54 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Imperial expansion to trailing
At 10:55 07.03.00 -0600, Steven Bonneville wrote:
>Ingo Heinscher wrote:
[snip- the secession hypothesis]
>It's possible that the empire has also receded in
>the Glimmerdrift region....
Though I'd ask myself why- wait, what about this: The Imperium had grown
too large to work efficiently, and some of the minor alien races in the
Domain Of Gateway were dissatisfied with its rule, so they started a minor
rebellion, and with a little diploamtic assistance by the K'Kree, were
finally successful.
That's almost what people wrote on this subject before, except that it has
a great influence on client state culture in the former DoG. (sounds like a
Vargr Domain, if I relook it... :-) ).
>Another interesting tidbit is that my sector data seems to show that
>Delphi P is outside the Imperium (mostly client-states, though), but
>that Glimmerdrift M has an Imperial pocket like Five Sisters. This
>is a mild contradiction of the Imperial line maps I've seen, but is
>potentially interesting. The other oddity is that the Rebellion
>Sourcebook says Glimmerdrift is administered by *Delphi*, in the Core
>Domain. I suspect that the administration of Glimmerdrift is split
>between Delphi (the rimward pocket) and Ley (the coreward bulge), with
>all sorts of potential political complications.
For my own Glimmerdrift Reaches sector, I use a different approach: (though
IMTU, there is no "pocket".) Subsector M of the GD is linked to Ley sector
through some Scout/Xboat bases on neurtral territory. I explain this rather
uneffective spproach politically: The Archduke of Ley is a poor guy anyway,
and fights like a lion for any single world under his control.
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 18:46:51 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
At 23:03 06.03.00 -0800, James W. Lindsay wrote:
[snip]
>> but you forget a crucial
>> difference: in almost every system along that main, a merchant ship
>> can refuel, often for free. Thus it took four to six weeks to move a
normal
>> trader hull that was 80% cargo, instead of a rift-crosser hull that was
80%+
>> fuel. The economic difference is major, enough to explain traveling tens
of
>> parsecs along a J-1 main instead of moving 4 parsecs across a single rift.
>> Especially since that J-1 main isn't empty space, it's worlds with
starports.
>
>Correction: it's worlds with starports *with stuff to trade*. Profit can
>be made every step of the way along a jump-1 main, while the same is
>impossible jumping through three intervening empty space hexes.
Agreed on both. Though I'd say that (assuming something which is not true
for the ZS, that is, you want to build your empire by spreading your own
population among the stars) it's still more economic to bring people to an
off-main world and bring them the first few production goods they need
rather than to ship them along a "main world" some one or even two years away.
>Another reason for the existence of the (more or less) straight boundary
>along the coreward edge of the Ziru Sirka might be political-- the same
>reason why national boundaries today also frequently have straight edges.
>When the Vilani ran into the Vargr coreward of the empire, somebody might
>have decided to make the boundary between Corridor/Vland/Lishun/Antares and
>Provence/Windhorn/Meshan/Mendan nice and easy for both sides to remember.
Well, since some canon sources say the Vilani didn't initially encounter
the Vargr, I like the "calibration point explanation" much more.
>There are other races that didn't expand spherically either-- most notably
>the Aslan and the Vargr.
On the Vargr, they stopped expanding when they encountered other, stronger
empires than their own pocket states. The Vargr are IMHO a very good
example for spherical/radial (if you use 2D maps) expansion.
And the Aslan were mostly stopped in their spherical expansion by Solomani
and the Great Rift (though this doesn't explain why the Aslan have not
seized much more territory beyond Charted space... but perhaps they have,
and map just don't show that, or these clans are not part of the Hierate).
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 10:17:41 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: re: Taunting message
- --- Glenn Goffin wrote:
> >From: "Luther Martin"
> >Subject: Taunting message
> >Traveller is currently the Number One RPG Of All
> Time, per the
> >poll at
> http://www.freevote.com/booth/best_rpg.
> How did this happen? That's right,. *I* cast the
> votes, oops, I
> >mean vote, which put it over the top.
> >I immediately noticed two potential dificulties.
> >First, my votes, oops, I mean vote, gave Traveller
> a total of
> >666 votes.
A clear victory,albeit a worthless and unethical one.
But still a victory.
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Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 10:23:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: Your Name In Vilani
>From: Ethan Henry
>There is (allegedly) a complete sentence that can be made in
>some Chinese dialect from just one sound ("na" maybe) with
>varying tones.
There is even a popular American song about it:
every sha na na na
every wo-o wo-ooo
- --Glenn
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Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 10:35:54 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Despite beeing the 1rst SF game in print,Traveller
failed 4 times.Why?
There is a................ disagreement over that.
I collected these reasons from SF sites:Which one
matters?
1 Traveller failed to adapt to changing tastes:
You actually can't play with practicly all modern SF
concepts unless creating tons of material
yourself(whoever does this DOESN`T normaly buy
additional material),like
Cyberpunk,Cyberspace,Nanotech,Genetic Altered
Humans.........
2 Bad Rules,exspecially Char Creation:
Whatever RPG,players have preferences about after
which favorite SF Character they like to base theirs.
But with a random system?
And what about Cyberpunks,Parahumans ( even T$R has
made concessions to that in ALTERNITY).
3 Outdated setting:
The Imperium,ruled by it's glorious Fuehrer.well,you
hardly find that in modern SF literature.And in TV and
Movies like Star Trek or B5,the states are basicly US
of Space.T's setting simply doesn't appeal to most SF
fans.
4 Concentration On Gearheads:
Out of habit,I bought the complete T4 ( for 40% off,my
game shop wanted to get rid of it),and was fascinated:
About 5 Vehicle construction systems.GREAT.
And ,how much,10 pages for character creation?
You don't succed with a game for people who just
calculate spaceships................or draw sector
maps.
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Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 14:08:39 -0500
From: Steve Daniels
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Get your asbestos suit on.
john hamilton wrote:
> 1 Traveller failed to adapt to changing tastes:
> You actually can't play with practicly all modern SF
> concepts unless creating tons of material
> yourself(whoever does this DOESN`T normaly buy
> additional material),like
> Cyberpunk,Cyberspace,Nanotech,Genetic Altered
> Humans.........
No game can keep up with real science. Traveller
was developed before Star Wars. I will however
grant you that going forward, it would be nice, IMO,
if Traveller tech were updated based on the science
of the last 25 years, but that would mean a total
re-creation of the Traveller universe. That might be
interesting.
Read Marc Miller's statement about the foundation
of the Traveller Universe:
http://members.aol.com/Traveller/T501-00.html
> 2 Bad Rules,exspecially Char Creation:
> Whatever RPG,players have preferences about after
> which favorite SF Character they like to base theirs.
> But with a random system?
Are you crazy? That is the best thing about Traveller.
Its unique career-based chargen system is its hallmark.
Nothing says Traveller more to me than its Chargen
system. It was the inspiration for a similar system in
the recent computer game System Shock 2.
> And what about Cyberpunks,Parahumans ( even T$R has
> made concessions to that in ALTERNITY).
What about them? (Actually, I don't want to hear anything
about them. I'm not impressed).
> 3 Outdated setting:
> The Imperium,ruled by it's glorious Fuehrer.well,you
> hardly find that in modern SF literature.And in TV and
> Movies like Star Trek or B5,the states are basicly US
> of Space.T's setting simply doesn't appeal to most SF
> fans.
And guess where those shows are written? In the US.
Modern SF literature is irrelevant. Handwaved nonsense
without any foundation in science. Sounds like you want a
fashionable trendy game suitable for munchkins.
bloo
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2016
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, March 7 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2017
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
re: OT - Request for assistance
Re: Let's Vote for Traveller, Once Per Day
Re: MT Starship Design
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Using no ground troops
Re: Silent Weapons
POCKET EMPIRES (&DUNE)
SV: Your name in Vilani & Zhodani
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
Your Name in Hiver
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2016
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 11:25:06 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
- --- Steve Daniels wrote:
> Get your asbestos suit on.
>
> john hamilton wrote:
>
> > 1 Traveller failed to adapt to changing tastes:
> > You actually can't play with practicly all modern
> SF
> > concepts unless creating tons of material
> > yourself(whoever does this DOESN`T normaly buy
> > additional material),like
> > Cyberpunk,Cyberspace,Nanotech,Genetic Altered
> > Humans.........
>
> No game can keep up with real science. Traveller
> was developed before Star Wars. I will however
> grant you that going forward, it would be nice, IMO,
> if Traveller tech were updated based on the science
> of the last 25 years, but that would mean a total
> re-creation of the Traveller universe. That might
> be
> interesting.
EVERYTHING CAN AND MUST KEEP UP WITH SCIENCE.AND IF
YOU PRINT DIFFERENT EDITIONS EVERY FEW YEARS,NORMALY
THAT ISN'T A PROBLEM....
>
> Read Marc Miller's statement about the foundation
> of the Traveller Universe:
> http://members.aol.com/Traveller/T501-00.html
>
> > 2 Bad Rules,exspecially Char Creation:
> > Whatever RPG,players have preferences about after
> > which favorite SF Character they like to base
> theirs.
> > But with a random system?
>
> Are you crazy? That is the best thing about
> Traveller.
> Its unique career-based chargen system is its
> hallmark.
> Nothing says Traveller more to me than its Chargen
> system.
Well Travellers problems is that it appeals only to a
few...That these people like it VERY MUCH ("THIS IS
MADE PERFECT FOR ME!") doesn't change it.
It was the inspiration for a similar system
> in
> the recent computer game System Shock 2.
Well,what's probably the reason why other games(who
stay in print) are not using it?
> > And what about Cyberpunks,Parahumans ( even T$R
> has
> > made concessions to that in ALTERNITY).
>
> What about them? (Actually, I don't want to hear
> anything
> about them. I'm not impressed).
Don't want to hear something you don't like?Well......
> > 3 Outdated setting:
> > The Imperium,ruled by it's glorious
> Fuehrer.well,you
> > hardly find that in modern SF literature.And in TV
> and
> > Movies like Star Trek or B5,the states are basicly
> US
> > of Space.T's setting simply doesn't appeal to most
> SF
> > fans.
>
> And guess where those shows are written? In the US.
German and Brit SF is the same.
> Modern SF literature is irrelevant. Handwaved
> nonsense
> without any foundation in science.
In contrary to Traveller.
Sounds like you
> want a
> fashionable trendy game
The main argument of snobs.
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 12:33:10 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
john hamilton wrote:
>
> Despite beeing the 1rst SF game in print,Traveller
> failed 4 times.Why?
> There is a................ disagreement over that.
> I collected these reasons from SF sites:Which one
> matters?
>
Which one matters? To a Traveller fan, not one.
> 1 Traveller failed to adapt to changing tastes:
> You actually can't play with practicly all modern SF
> concepts unless creating tons of material
> yourself(whoever does this DOESN`T normaly buy
> additional material),like
> Cyberpunk,Cyberspace,Nanotech,Genetic Altered
> Humans.........
>
I challenge any SF-based RPG to adapt to changing tastes while retaining
its original flavour. Unlike, say, D&D, Traveller is based on
extrapolations of modern technology and society. As the base data (our
current society and technology) change, the extrapolations become invalid
over time.
There are ways to deal with this:
1. Scrap any RPG which is based on extrapolations no longer in vogue.
2. "Freeze" the extrapolations used so that the RPG can continue to exist.
Traveller uses #2, naturally. Option #1 is expensive for game producers and
requires a lot of players/referees willing to switch rulesets every few
years or so. The sweat just isn't worth the benefits.
To me, the game is fun, even though the Traveller rules aren't "realistic".
I still like chess, although it no longer simulates real war. Monopoly
doesn't effectively simulate the real estate world, yet that's still a fun
game.
> 2 Bad Rules,exspecially Char Creation:
> Whatever RPG,players have preferences about after
> which favorite SF Character they like to base theirs.
> But with a random system?
Nobody's forcing a referee to use the rules as written. If people want to
handcraft a particular character, the referee may choose to allow it. The
important thing is to not give any one player a lot of advantages over any
other.
>
> 3 Outdated setting:
> The Imperium,ruled by it's glorious Fuehrer.well,you
> hardly find that in modern SF literature.And in TV and
> Movies like Star Trek or B5,the states are basicly US
> of Space.T's setting simply doesn't appeal to most SF
> fans.
>
Well, I like Star Trek (TOS), Star Wars, B5, and other TV shows and movies.
However, I'd never classify any of these as good science fiction. They're
more pure entertainment.
For me, good sci-fi is represented by stories involving the social
understanding of technological advances. Examples include the Foundation
trilogy (which Traveller borrows a lot from, IMTU), novels like Dragon's
Egg (IMO the best sci-fi novel ever written), stuff by Larry Niven
(especially regarding the cultural changes brought on by teleportation, the
organ banks, and boosterspice), Dune, and Cherryh's novels (like Downbelow
Station).
Very few of what I consider good SF could be translated into good movies or
TV shows.
- --
Erwin Fritz
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 11:45:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: re: OT - Request for assistance
>From: "Pat Connaughton"
>I recently had a minor accident involving breakfast foods and
>have now to try and replace the last two thirds of Heart of
Oak.
You have our most sincere and heartfelt condolences. I would
help you if I only could.
- --Glenn
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Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 14:49:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Houghton
Subject: Re: Let's Vote for Traveller, Once Per Day
Howdy!
It would appear that Dangerous Journey:Mythus is even more active than
we are...having (temporarily) moved into first place...
yours,
Michael
- --
Michael and MJ Houghton | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@radix.net | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
| http://www.radix.net/~herveus/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 11:51:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: MT Starship Design
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
[deletion]
>Later design systems went to the (very unrealistic) volume
>rather than mass based setups for acceleration and the like
>because too many players objected to having to go thru the
>process recursively.
[deletion]
>That was part of what I *liked* about CT and then MT. Players
>would immediately try to build a J6, 6G ship. And discover that
>they *couldn't*. At least not in the size ranges they had any
>hope of owning. They had to pick and choose.
[deletion]
Me, too, as the saying goes. I always designed everything
recursively. What do I want it to do? How do I achieve that?
What do I give up to get that? The same was true both for High
Guard and Striker. It was a pain, but I felt like a little bit
like an engineer or naval architect, which was cool.
- --Glenn
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http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 11:58:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
john hamilton writes:
> Despite beeing the 1rst SF game in print,Traveller
> failed 4 times.Why?
Well, most games, in any genre, fail. Role-playing is not exactly a stable
market. Being first isn't necessarily best in any case.
> There is a................ disagreement over that.
> I collected these reasons from SF sites:Which one
> matters?
>
> 1 Traveller failed to adapt to changing tastes:
Shrug. It doesn't have to. Traveller is Space Opera, which is a perfectly
viable genre.
> 2 Bad Rules,exspecially Char Creation:
Actually, as random character creation systems go, the traveller system is
kind of fun, though dying in character creation is a bit silly. Random
character creation vs character design is one of the standard 'holy wars' of
RPGs.
> And what about Cyberpunks,Parahumans ( even T$R has
> made concessions to that in ALTERNITY).
What about them? They aren't space opera concepts.
>
> 3 Outdated setting:
An imperium is fine. The big problem with the traveller imperium is that it's
sort of boring -- very few strange new worlds, no evil emperor you need to
rebel against, and the PCs are just generally very small as compared to the
setting.
>
> 4 Concentration On Gearheads:
Well, Traveller does have a high wargamer component, which I'm sure didn't
help its ability to break into a larger market. T4 was appalling, however.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 12:03:29 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Using no ground troops
>From: Anthony Jackson
>Subject: Re: Using no ground troops
...
>near your launching point (a halfway intelligent warbot program will have
>collision avoidance and point defense and will probably dodge or shoot down
>any improvised missiles).
FWIW, PD is not a small or cheap system under CT (_very_ capable, though).
OTOH, unlike some of the dinosaurs, I was recommending hunting Security
Police `bots with light military anti-armour kit - it's only prudent :)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 12:00:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: Silent Weapons
Luther Martin writes:
> Actually, for most wavelengths, the 1/e range is much less than 20 km. I
> have some good graphs of absorption vs wavelength. Email me off list if you
> would like me to fax you a copy.
>
Nah. I was being deliberately generous in my assumptions, on a typical day
near a big city 20 kilometers would be wildly optimistic for just about any
wavelength.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 15:09:18 -0500
From: "Garcia, Abel"
Subject: POCKET EMPIRES (&DUNE)
Hello list,
I've been absent a while so I apologize in advance if this has recently been
covered: Can anyone forward me the web address of persons & pages that deal
with T4's _POCKET_EMPIRES_? I'm most interested in any spreadsheet tools
that the list may have developed to manage a number of players.
Thanks,
Abel
(tne++)
p.'s. -
- -----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
> john hamilton wrote:
> 3 Outdated setting:
> The Imperium,ruled by it's glorious Fuehrer.well,you
> hardly find that in modern SF literature.And in TV and
> Movies like Star Trek or B5,the states are basicly US
> of Space.T's setting simply doesn't appeal to most SF
> fans.
From: Erwin Fritz
For me, good sci-fi is represented by stories involving the social
understanding of technological advances. Examples include......Dune...
>_DUNE_: a most *wonderful* book, and a *GREAT* example of the "Imperium"
model with ruling "Families" to boot. _DUNE_ offers so much to the T-ref:
1. A hands-on, scheming, emperor,
2. Two GREAT ruling families,
3. The emperor's own guard,
4. PSI use & PSI drug mining,
5. Secret psi societies,
6. A post "AI WARS" universe; a Fourth (technophobe) Imperium,
7. A plausible explanation for the use of edged weapons!
(Did I forget anything?)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 10:37:01 +0100
From: "Carl Roger Nilsen"
Subject: SV: Your name in Vilani & Zhodani
> Write your last name
> + your first name, backwards
> + your last name, backwards.
lracregorneslin
>
> Truncate if necessary.
nah
>
> Shift vowels:
> a becomes e
lrecregorneslin
> e remains e
> i becomes e
lrecregorneslen
> o becomes a
lrecregarneslen
> u becomes q
>
> Convert diphthongs:
> a + any vowel becomes o
> ea -> e'a ee -> ia ei -> e'ay eo -> e
> o + any vowel becomes o
>
>Line 3:
> Convert consonants:
> Replace [c or k, but not ch] with Zh
lrezhregarneslen
> Replace f with v
> Replace g with z
lrezhrezarneslen
> Replace h with v [but not with ch, zh, or sh]
> Remove any vowel (maybe y too) in front of a letter 'r'.
lrezhrezrneslen
> Replace 'l' + vowel with 'tl' + vowel.
lrezhrezrnestlen
> Replace ts with tszh.
> Replace [el] with [le].
> Replace [st] with [sht].
lrezhrezrneshtlen
> Replace [rr] with [zhdr].
> Replace [sm] with [zmr].
> Replace [ms] with [b].
> Replace [ns] with [p].
> Replace [td] with [tdl].
> Replace [dtr] with [dtl].
> Replace [tt] with [i].
>
> Separate ec, ef, es, et with an apostrophe.
lrezhrezrne'sthlen
>
> Add an 's' to a final 'et' or 'ed'.
> Add an 'r' or 'l' to a final 't', 'd', 'b', 'f', 'p', or 'v'.
> Add an 'nj' to a final vowel, if it's not a diphthong.
>
> Insert word breaks where necessary.
Irezhrezr Ne'sthlen
Carl Roger Nilsen
Vilani: Karukane Shiraagineraager
Zhodani: Irezhrezr Ne'sthlen
"Never overlook something that seems to be simple"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 16:02:27 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Waitaminnit...there are problems with Traveller?
Two years I been on this mailing list, and none of you guys saw fit to
let me in on this? Thanks a bunch, guys. I made WEB PAGES, dammit!!
And now I find out I've been wasting my time on a flawed product! Quit
laughing over there! Geez, I feel like such an IDIOT! If it hadn't been for John
Hamilton here, I might never have known. Thanks John, you're a real
lifesaver. What game should I be playing instead?
Great, now what am I going to do with this closet full of good to near-mint,
out of print, hard to find Traveller supplements?
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 14:08:16 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
This story was reprinted in my local paper from the NY Times today.
See:
http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/science/health/030700hth-aging-ethics.html
(requires a free login, use cypherpunks/cypherpunks if you want)
The relation to Traveller should be obvious; the greater implications of
the power that the dead hand of superstition and a death-cult religion
has on scientific research in this supposedly enlightened age still has
me shaking with rage.
A quote:
"Far from accepting greater
longevity as a blessing, ethicists
and some theologians offered
passionate praise of death. They
argued that life without death
would be meaningless and that the
natural ambitions of career and
family were satisfied within a life
span of 80 years."
So, these 'learned' White Christian Men have decreed that _my_ life
should satisfactory after 80 years....
As I said, I'm still shaking with rage...literally.
I cannot remember when a news story has affected me like this.
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 15:21:55 -0600
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Um... sell them for really really cheap? :)
- -----Original Message-----
From: Walter Smith
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
>Waitaminnit...there are problems with Traveller?
>
>Two years I been on this mailing list, and none of you guys saw fit to
>let me in on this? Thanks a bunch, guys. I made WEB PAGES, dammit!!
>And now I find out I've been wasting my time on a flawed product! Quit
>laughing over there! Geez, I feel like such an IDIOT! If it hadn't been for
John
>Hamilton here, I might never have known. Thanks John, you're a real
>lifesaver. What game should I be playing instead?
>
>Great, now what am I going to do with this closet full of good to
near-mint,
>out of print, hard to find Traveller supplements?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 14:18:57 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Walter Smith wrote:
>
> Two years I been on this mailing list, and none of you guys saw fit to
> let me in on this? Thanks a bunch, guys. I made WEB PAGES, dammit!!
> And now I find out I've been wasting my time on a flawed product! Quit
> laughing over there! Geez, I feel like such an IDIOT! If it hadn't been for John
> Hamilton here, I might never have known. Thanks John, you're a real
> lifesaver. What game should I be playing instead?
>
> Great, now what am I going to do with this closet full of good to near-mint,
> out of print, hard to find Traveller supplements?
Well, if you donate them to me, I can sell them. I'll use the money to
replace the keyboard I just ruined.
- --
Erwin Fritz
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 22:21:17 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Walter Smith wrote:
> Waitaminnit...there are problems with Traveller?
>
>
> Great, now what am I going to do with this closet full of good to
> near-mint, out of print, hard to find Traveller supplements?
LOL
I didn't eat/drink anything at the moment, but I laughed hard enough to
manage to drool on my keyboard. Does that count?
The keyboard seems to be OK though... I haven't found any keys in the
contaminated area that don't work.
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 16:20:48 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
I wonder how much the death-supporting ethicists would complain if they
were failing in a nursing home, knowing that each breath could be their
last gasp, and some hotshot scientist walked in and offered them a vial of
his latest eternal youth serum discovery.
I agree, who put these ethicists in charge of deciding what is an
appropriate lifespan?
Quoting Greek myths as if it proved some kind of point...what, am I
supposed to start propitiating Hera and Zeus now?
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 13:34:00 PST
From: "will richards"
Subject: Your Name in Hiver
To convert your name to it's hiver equivilent:
Step 1: write down your first name add a space, add your middle name, add a
space and then add your last name.
example: William 'Mud' Richards
step1: William Mud Richards
If you don't belive me then you have not been manipulated by the Hivers
enough.
Will ;)
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 16:40:40 -0500
From: scott brandsgaard
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Does this mean you're not voting for Traveller on the best RPG ever?
mmm...maybe you're a Fading Suns or Dangerous Journeys fan trolling
the TML... ;)
At 10.35 -0800 03.07.00, john hamilton wrote:
> Despite beeing the 1rst SF game in print,Traveller
>failed 4 times.Why?
>There is a................ disagreement over that.
> I collected these reasons from SF sites:Which one
>matters?
>
>1 Traveller failed to adapt to changing tastes:
>2 Bad Rules,exspecially Char Creation:
>3 Outdated setting
>4 Concentration On Gearheads:
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 13:43:38 -0800
From: sneadj@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
john hamilton wrote:
> Despite beeing the 1rst SF game in print,Traveller
> failed 4 times.Why? There is a................ disagreement over
> that. I collected these reasons from SF sites:Which one
> matters?
I'd say none of the above. I make my living writing freelance in the
RPG industry and I have seen one consistent trend. Space-faring
SF games die. They simply never have the staying power or the
success of fantasy, horror, or any of the other more popular genres.
Cyberpunk and Shadowrun work because they are basically like
modern day games with added violence, tech (and in one case
magic). SF games like Traveller are a whole different genre, and
one which seems never to do well with gamers.
In 1997/1998 many new SF games were released (Alternity, T4
Blue Planet, Trinity, & Fading Suns, & The Babylon Project).
Everything except Fading Suns is dead or dying, and Fading Suns
is only moderately successful. Some of these games died
because they sucked (Babylon Project) or were mismanaged to
death (T4), but others were not, and they still died.
The only exception to the above rule is that games based on
*really* hot licenses (ie Star Wars and Star Trek). Truly gonzo
space opera of these sorts, based on wolds and stories people
know really well seem to work. West End's Star Wars may be
dead now, but it lasted for many years and has a *huge* stack of
supplements. LUGs Star Trek game is selling quite well also.
My guess is that SF is difficult for most gamers to get into. Having
a huge stock of images and stereotypes about an SF universe
helps. Having an SF universe that many people already dearly love
before they ever game in it also helps. In the absence of such
factors SF games either don't sell very well, or more commonly,
they die within a few years.
I certainly wish this wasn't true. SF games are my favorites to play
and to write. However, many fine companies have made the
attempt and none have had anywhere near the same level of
success with this genre as they have with others.
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 13:43:38 -0800
From: sneadj@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2016
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: Using no ground troops
Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> Heck, I can think of a few dozen ways of killing warbots using
>> nothing more than wood, rope and rocks. From hundreds of >>
yards away...
>I can think of a few dozen ways of killing normal troops from that
>distance as well. To be honest, I have doubts about the viability
>of killing the standard 'levitating brick of bonded superdense' style
>of warbots which tends to be encouraged by most Traveller design
>sequences with improvised weapons, and I suspect it would be
>extremely dangerous to try if you were anywhere near your
>launching point (a halfway intelligent warbot program will have
>collision avoidance and point defense and will probably dodge or
>shoot down any improvised missiles).
Very true, I really don't see much difference between the warbots
and troops except that:
1) The warbots are much harder to ambush, since they never
sleep, and would hover at least 5-10 m off the ground.
2) No one dies if a warbot is killed.
3) If the warbots are all master-slave units you will have images of
what is happening when any warbot is killed. Therefore,
investigating such incidents would be quite easy. Throw in good
facial recognition software (which doesn't need to be much better
than we have today) and the robots can even do much of the
investigation.
4) Warbots never harm of kill civilians because they have a bad
day, and they never randomly destroy or steal property.
Certainly, they don't provide the human element for getting to know
the locals, but that's what the administrators and similar personnel
are for. Given that they will not be in an actual war zone they're in
a position to be much more sympathetic to the conquered people.
If the robots stun and apprehend anyone carrying weapons, destroy
all weapons not in the hads of the administrators, kill only to
protect lives, I see them as being considerably less unpopular than
most invading armies. Even if they merely warn anyone carrying a
weapon to drop it and then kill them, they are not worse than most
invading armies.
If the administrators are also more like UN personnel than like Nazi
conquerors in their attitudes towards the conquered people then I
see nothing lost and much gained through using warbots and
administrators rather than troops and administrators. They would
also be there to help keep up the propaganda campaign which
would have started even before the robots were dropped.
Each robot could be made for around 25,000 Cr. For 55,000 Cr
you could even allow them to have High Data Limited/Basic
command if their Master-slave link was jammed.
Combat armor alone costs 30,000 Cr (TL 12) or 60,000 CR (TL 14).
Add in the costs of training and feeding the troops, the cost of their
weapons (not to mention the non-monetary costs of having troops
killed) and the robots are a good deal too.
[[The above figures are calculated using MegaTraveller and CT book
8)]]
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2017
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, March 7 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2018
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2016
Re: Modern day anagathics research
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Illumniati?(was: Re: Interstellar Democracies in YTU)
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
Re: Your Name In Vilani
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: MT Starship Design
RE: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: MT Starship Design
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Your Name in Vilani & Zhodani
Re: TOP 4 REASONS...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 13:54:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2016
sneadj@mindspring.com writes:
> 1) The warbots are much harder to ambush, since they never
> sleep, and would hover at least 5-10 m off the ground.
Depends on what you're using them for. Usual use for troops is things like
house-clearing, and warbots aren't going to be in any different position than
normal troops at that.
>
> 2) No one dies if a warbot is killed.
>
> 3) If the warbots are all master-slave units you will have images of
> what is happening when any warbot is killed. Therefore,
> investigating such incidents would be quite easy. Throw in good
> facial recognition software (which doesn't need to be much better
> than we have today) and the robots can even do much of the
> investigation.
Master-slave units are not viable unless every warbot has a meson comm.
Jamming is much too easy.
>
> 4) Warbots never harm of kill civilians because they have a bad
> day, and they never randomly destroy or steal property.
They may, however, make stupid mistakes, depending on their programming.
> If the robots stun and apprehend anyone carrying weapons, destroy
> all weapons not in the hads of the administrators, kill only to
> protect lives, I see them as being considerably less unpopular than
> most invading armies. Even if they merely warn anyone carrying a
> weapon to drop it and then kill them, they are not worse than most
> invading armies.
Reliable non-lethal weapons have serious effects on combat with or without
warbots.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 15:53:53 -0600
From: Stormhound
Subject: Re: Modern day anagathics research
Bruce Johnson wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/science/health/030700hth-aging-ethics.html
>
> "Far from accepting greater
> longevity as a blessing, ethicists
> and some theologians offered
> passionate praise of death. They
> argued that life without death
> would be meaningless and that the
> natural ambitions of career and
> family were satisfied within a life
> span of 80 years."
>
> So, these 'learned' White Christian Men have decreed that _my_ life
> should satisfactory after 80 years....
Comments on specific modern religious groups aside (please), and allowing for the
fact that whatever these people actually said got pared down to simple content by a
reporter and editor...
There's some kernel of truth here, in that at some point any given person is
likely to get tired of life. The key point is that it'll vary by individual and
circumstance. If health/quality-of-life is poor, it'll probably happen sooner. But
for those in good condition and with ample interests, it'll probably take longer.
There are many cases of people whose life was full and happy until their bodies gave
out; there are also many of people withering after retirement or the loss of a
spouse. It's the continuing need to satisfy one's own ambitions, rather than the
length of time one has to do it, that's important.
And again with religious content aside, I'm of the opinion that knowledge of
eventual death is indeed a major motivating factor. You know that past some point,
your mortal existence will only be carried on in the form of those who remember you;
there are a great many people who want to be remembered, to leave a lasting mark on
the world. True, there will always be those who are more or less "driven" than the
norm, but I know very few people whose sole motivation in life is reproduction.
I guess it's the whole package...anagathics can ensure quantity of life, but not
quality (or at least not any more than well-being), and it's up to the individual to
make the most of it from there. With the current trend toward prolonging life via
extraordinary medical means without providing any kind of quality, I can even
understand the above quote without having to agree with it in all aspects.
- --
Stormhound
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 15:50:00 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
In <01BF884E.8989CF80@smithwn1.hartwick.edu>, on 03/07/00
at 04:02 PM, Walter Smith said:
>Waitaminnit...there are problems with Traveller?
>Two years I been on this mailing list, and none of you guys saw fit to
>let me in on this? Thanks a bunch, guys. I made WEB PAGES, dammit!! And
>now I find out I've been wasting my time on a flawed product! Quit
>laughing over there! Geez, I feel like such an IDIOT! If it hadn't been
>for John Hamilton here, I might never have known. Thanks John, you're a
>real lifesaver. What game should I be playing instead?
>Great, now what am I going to do with this closet full of good to
>near-mint, out of print, hard to find Traveller supplements?
Here's Eris standing *first* in line for when Walt tosses out all those
out-dated, flawed, and failed Traveller goodies from his closet.
What makes poor old, trolling, John Hamilton think Traveller failed,
anyway? Just because it has had several versions and had a couple of
companies go out of business on it isn't a sign of failure. If no one was
still playing it, *that* would be a sign of failure, but I'm still playing
Traveller so for me, at least, it hasn't failed.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch"
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 13:22:34
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Illumniati?(was: Re: Interstellar Democracies in YTU)
At 06:27 PM 3/7/2000 +0100, you wrote:
>Isn't it intersting that those guys are not one-tenth as popular in Germany
>than in the U.S.? I learned that they might have existed from a GURPS book...
That's it. This weekend I finish writing the Illuminated Traveller Campaign.
But just to tickle the imagination of our newly enlightened member.. Take a
look at a portrait of George Washington. Then one of Adam Weishaupt,
founder of the Bavarian Illumniati. Eerie, eh?
Now realize that when Washington resigned his commission as General of the
Army, he expressed to many people his intention of returning to life as a
farmer, not wanting any more public exposure. But soon after Adam Weishaupt
disappears from Europe, Washington is suddenly a very active President...
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
TML Great Old One
Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse
Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 13:57:27
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
At 10:35 AM 3/7/2000 -0800, you wrote:
> Despite beeing the 1rst SF game in print
Wrong. Metamorphosis: Alpha (TSR) was in print earlier
>,Traveller failed 4 times.Why?
I wouldn't call the first two editions failures. Both were withdrawn by the
publisher in favor of heavy revisions. Classic Traveller was in print for
ten years, produced dozens of products from a variety of sources and still
has a following.
You could even make a convincing case the TNE did not fail, but it was GDW
that failed out from under it. 4th Edition, now that one crashed and burned
like the turkey it was.
>1 Traveller failed to adapt to changing tastes:
>You actually can't play with practicly all modern SF concepts unless
>creating tons of material yourself (whoever does this DOESN`T normaly buy
>additional material), like Cyberpunk, Cyberspace, Nanotech, Genetic Altered
>Humans.........
Cyberpunk didn't exist as a genre in 1977. I don't think Drexler had even
coined the term nanotech at that point. Most of the other items have been
mentioned at one point or another.
I would challenge your assumption on base evidence of my own perceptions. I
don't know what you call "modern SF", but I can see doing David Weber, Dan
Simmon's _Hyperion_, or any number of recent SF in the Traveller framework.
>2 Bad Rules, exspecially Char Creation:
>Whatever RPG,players have preferences about after which favorite SF
>Character they like to base theirs. But with a random system?
Yes, with a random system. Which had been the standard for RPGs for close
to twenty years, up until the early nineties. Games like GURPS and the
Hero system were the exceptions.
>And what about Cyberpunks, Parahumans ( even T$R has made concessions to
>that in ALTERNITY).
What about them? Traveller isn't about being all things to all people. It
is about Science-Fiction Adventure in the Far Future. Which, over the
years, came to mean the Third Imperium. "Parahumans"? I'm not sure what you
mean by that.
If it's any consolation, wayyy back in 1978 I played an ex-Marine with an
obvious cranial rebuild that included a replacement right eye with many of
the usual enhancements. This was two years prior the Neuromancer and the
beginning of the whole Cyberpunk movement.
Cyberpunk is addressed in several places. FFS1 had rules for cybernetic
enhancements, and it has been addressed in many places that the general
Imperial attitude towards heavily-altered people borders on revulsion.
There are over forty remaining minor human races scattered about, about
which we've learned very little beyond some names. (Except of course for
the Sayat, about whom we've learned far too much.) That should fulfill
your appetite for variant humans.
>3 Outdated setting: The Imperium,ruled by it's glorious Fuehrer. well, you
>hardly find that in modern SF literature.
My Troll Meter is starting to twitch.
First off, the Emperor is not the "Fuhrer" by any means. He is not a
dictator with unchallenged executive powers. A better analogy would be the
Roman Emperor at the height of the Empire. His has power, but needs to work
through the existing power structure to get anything done. This means
deals and compromise. By the way, casually throwing out references to
Hitler and the Third Reich will not make you many friends. Many of us live
in nations that were directly affected by that madman, or had family
members who fought in that war.
No dictators in modern SF? Robert Pierre of the Committee for Public Safety
in the David Weber's "Honor Harrington" series is one. Very nasty piece of
work, too.
>And in TV and Movies like Star Trek or B5,the states are basicly US of
>Space.T's setting simply doesn't appeal to most SF fans.
This isn't Star Trek or Babylon 5. Both of these are shows I admire
greatly, but neither of them are close to Traveller. There are RPGs
dedicated to both these settings. The "Yank's in Space" gambit? Troll
Meter at 54%, and rising! Traveller, has for it's twenty three year
history, been written, published, and mostly played by Americans.
I find it fascinating that in one paragraph you condemn the setting for
having an absolute dictator, and in the next accuse the game of being too
American!
>4 Concentration On Gearheads:
>Out of habit,I bought the complete T4 ( for 40% off, my game shop wanted to
>get rid of it),and was fascinated: About 5 Vehicle construction
>systems.GREAT. And ,how much,10 pages for character creation?
>You don't succed with a game for people who just calculate
>spaceships................or draw sector maps.
Nobody makes you do so. The gearhead rules are there for those who want to
use them! You said yourself that you bought the complete run of T4 because
it came as a package at a discount. Had you been buying it book by book,
would you have bought FFS2?
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
Inquisitor Maximus, Reformed Canon Church of Sylea
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 14:06:55 -0800
From: Kristian Miller
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
...
> SF games die. They simply never have the staying power or the
> success of fantasy, horror, or any of the other more popular genres.
>
> Cyberpunk and Shadowrun work because they are basically like
> modern day games with added violence, tech (and in one case
...
> The only exception to the above rule is that games based on
> *really* hot licenses (ie Star Wars and Star Trek). Truly gonzo
...
> My guess is that SF is difficult for most gamers to get into. Having
I think there's a pretty good point here. Traveller is especially
difficult since it's based on 17th-18th century colonialism/imperiallism
and exploration. I don't think the entrepenurial spirit that was
popular at that time is common today. On the other hand, it's easy to
be a (cyber)punk since it's a part of our culture today; or, a fantasy
hero because you're taking on a well defined "job" in the fantasy
universe.
Kristian
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 14:01:49
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
At 04:20 PM 3/7/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>I wonder how much the death-supporting ethicists would complain if they
>were failing in a nursing home, knowing that each breath could be their
>last gasp, and some hotshot scientist walked in and offered them a vial of
>his latest eternal youth serum discovery.
Hell with that, just give them my body for a week. They'd sell their souls
for good health and a few more years.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 23:04:36 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
Bruce Johnson wrote:
> So, these 'learned' White Christian Men have decreed that _my_ life
> should satisfactory after 80 years....
>
> As I said, I'm still shaking with rage...literally.
>
> I cannot remember when a news story has affected me like this.
This is one of the reasons that I could never stand living in the US.
Pardon me if this offends anyone, but I am so used to not having
religion affecting my life in any form. This is one of the (IMO)
luxuries of living in Sweden.
When religion intrudes on other matters in this manner, I become both
depressed and angry, especially when the fanatics act in as stupid a way
as this. Remember that these people are supposedly intellectuals...
Note that only the Christian fanatics were against prolonging life. The
only mentioned Jewish representative supported the scientific research
wholeheartedly. At least one of the Christians (Rev. Richard J. Neuhaus)
took the opportunity to claim that non-Christian beliefs are inferior to
Christian ones.
I might be imagining things, but it seems to me that I see this
phenomena quite often...
Note that the above statement is not true for all Christians. I have a
handful of Christian friends, and I have met many nice AND religious
(Christian or otherwise) persons.
If, for some reason, you feel the need to flame me, DON'T DO SO ON THE
LIST. I will reply to private mail, but flames to the list will be
ignored for the public good.
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 17:05:39 -0500
From: Mark Urbin
Subject: Re: Your Name In Vilani
Mainibaa Ruuiiaakh
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of a
free state, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall
not be infringed. -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 13:54:56 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
In mail you write:
> Waitaminnit...there are problems with Traveller?
>
> Two years I been on this mailing list, and none of you guys saw fit to
> let me in on this? Thanks a bunch, guys. I made WEB PAGES, dammit!!
> And now I find out I've been wasting my time on a flawed product! Quit
> laughing over there! Geez, I feel like such an IDIOT! If it hadn't been for
> John
> Hamilton here, I might never have known. Thanks John, you're a real
> lifesaver. What game should I be playing instead?
>
> Great, now what am I going to do with this closet full of good to near-mint,
> out of print, hard to find Traveller supplements?
>
> Walt Smith
Walt, for a small handling fee, I'll take care of disposing them for
you. Wouldn't want to get your garbage hauler all upset now, would
we... :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 13:50:44 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: MT Starship Design
In mail you write:
>>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> [deletion]
>>Later design systems went to the (very unrealistic) volume
>>rather than mass based setups for acceleration and the like
>>because too many players objected to having to go thru the
>>process recursively.
> [deletion]
>>That was part of what I *liked* about CT and then MT. Players
>>would immediately try to build a J6, 6G ship. And discover that
>>they *couldn't*. At least not in the size ranges they had any
>>hope of owning. They had to pick and choose.
> [deletion]
>
> Me, too, as the saying goes. I always designed everything
> recursively. What do I want it to do? How do I achieve that?
> What do I give up to get that? The same was true both for High
> Guard and Striker. It was a pain, but I felt like a little bit
> like an engineer or naval architect, which was cool.
Also, I think it gives players a bit of comfort... "If the GM is gonna
throw something like this at us, he had to *work* to make it so
nasty..."
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 16:16:03 -0600
From: "Moody, Danny M."
Subject: RE: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
> From: Jens Rydholm [mailto:jenry023@student.liu.se]
The only part of this that I really find fascinating is this:
[snip]
>
[snip]
>
[snip]
> If, for some reason, you feel the need to flame me, DON'T DO SO ON THE
> LIST. I will reply to private mail, but flames to the list will be
> ignored for the public good.
So, it's fine for you to be offensive on the TML, but not for anyone to respond in kind?
Interesting...
vargr1 UPP-8D9B85
- ---------------------------- Omnia dicta fortiora, si dicta latina.
Meyers-Briggs personality type: ENTJ vargr1@jcn1*com
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with." dmoody@bridge*com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 14:19:40 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
> Despite beeing the 1rst SF game in print,Traveller
>failed 4 times.Why?
>There is a................ disagreement over that.
No one says you have to play the game if you don't like it. Take a look
around Traveller has been *FAR* more successfull than just about any RPG
out there. We're talking about a game that has had literally several
hundred things published. Even the horrible T4 had a lot of material, and
yes I'm embarrassed to say that with a couple exceptions I've got all the
T4 stuff.
The only problem I can see was shifting their setting, that's when I see
them as having started to have problems. Yes, I'm a "Classic" fan, but
also like the "Rebellion" material.
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 22:11:48 +0000
From: Paul Campbell
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
On Tue, 07 Mar 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>
> >And in TV and Movies like Star Trek or B5,the states are basicly US of
> >Space.T's setting simply doesn't appeal to most SF fans.
>
> This isn't Star Trek or Babylon 5. Both of these are shows I admire
> greatly, but neither of them are close to Traveller. There are RPGs
> dedicated to both these settings. The "Yank's in Space" gambit? Troll
> Meter at 54%, and rising! Traveller, has for it's twenty three year
> history, been written, published, and mostly played by Americans.
>
> I find it fascinating that in one paragraph you condemn the setting for
> having an absolute dictator, and in the next accuse the game of being too
> American!
"I actually thought he was compaining about it *not* being American enough,"
said the Scotsman.
And to say Traveller failed four times? John, I would have thought that even
if it /had/ failed the first time, why would anyone have taken the financial
risk and brought out another 3 (soon to be four - can't wait) versions, if
it was such a turkey as you describe?
If you think Traveller is so bad, what is it about the game that makes you
play it? Forget the negative for a moment and think about the good bits. I'm
sure you'll find some.
- --
Paul Campbell
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 22:23:33 +0000
From: Paul Campbell
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
On Tue, 07 Mar 2000, Zane H. Healy wrote:
> > Despite beeing the 1rst SF game in print,Traveller
> >failed 4 times.Why?
> >There is a................ disagreement over that.
>
> No one says you have to play the game if you don't like it. Take a look
> around Traveller has been *FAR* more successfull than just about any RPG
> out there. We're talking about a game that has had literally several
> hundred things published. Even the horrible T4 had a lot of material, and
> yes I'm embarrassed to say that with a couple exceptions I've got all the
> T4 stuff.
Traveller even topped a survey as Best RPG ever recetly.
> The only problem I can see was shifting their setting, that's when I see
> them as having started to have problems. Yes, I'm a "Classic" fan, but
> also like the "Rebellion" material.
>
> Zane
> | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
> | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
> | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
> +----------------------------------+----------------------------+
> | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
> | and Zane's Computer Museum. |
> | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
- --
Paul Campbell
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 17:25:45 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: Re: MT Starship Design
Leonard Erickson wrote:
>Also, I think it gives players a bit of comfort... "If the GM is gonna
>throw something like this at us, he had to *work* to make it so nasty..."
And if the nasty thing breaks the rules, it's immediately transformed
in the players' eyes into a "magic item". "Wow, this engine can do
Maneuver-6 off a Power Plant-1!! Imagine if we could board that ship,
steal that drive core and install it in our Free Trader!"
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 14:47:43 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
>Traveller even topped a survey as Best RPG ever recetly.
Not surprised, the only other RPG that I can think of that compares to it
in shear bulk of stuff available for it is Dungeons & Dragons. I'm
honestly not sure which has more stuff out, though I'd have to guess D&D.
However, IIRC, AD&D had a major publishing company behind it when a lot of
that stuff came out, and AD&D is one of those games that is able to get
into book stores.
I recently was looking for a player manual for Deadlands, and as a result
hit several stores, bookstores and stores that carry a good selection of
Gameing items. You know what, basically all I found in the bookstores was
AD&D and White Wolf. None of the good games were anywhere to be seen in
the Bookstores. That is the real problem, only a couple games have any
real presense in bookstores! There wasn't even any GURPS material to be
seen! It's hard to have any sort of success when you can't get your
product seen by most people!
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 23:50:13 +0100 (MET)
From: Tommy Grav
Subject: Re: Your Name in Vilani & Zhodani
Zhodani
Zrev Ymmatvrz
Vilani
Raiimiuur Iigariimii
Tommy Grav
- -------------------------------------------------------------
tommy.grav@astro.uio.no http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/
Institute of Astrophysics, UiO, No
IMTU tn++t4+tg+ ru+ge++ !3i jt+au+st+ls hi++dr-so++zh-sy-sw++
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 18:07:54 -0500
From: "DaveShayne"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS...
>Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 10:35:54 -0800 (PST)
>From: john hamilton
> Despite beeing the 1rst SF game in print,Traveller
>failed 4 times.Why?
First it didn't fail 4 times. It has gone through five editions with another
in the works (CT, MT, TNE, T4, GT, and soon hopefully T5)
The company that produced the first three editions eventually went
out of business. I know of no information that sugests the reason
for GDW's demise was primarilly Traveller. IG failed because they
produced a flawed version (but facinating in a sick sort of way and
having usefull material scatered through the flotsam) So IG's T4
failed not Traveller as a whole.
By your logic D&D has also failed 3 times. If that's failure I've
got to stop trying to suceed.
>There is a................ disagreement over that.
> I collected these reasons from SF sites:Which one
>matters?
>
>1 Traveller failed to adapt to changing tastes:
>You actually can't play with practicly all modern SF
>concepts unless creating tons of material
>yourself(whoever does this DOESN`T normaly buy
>additional material),like
>Cyberpunk,Cyberspace,Nanotech,Genetic Altered
>Humans.........
A mater of taste. It's not necesary for a valid SFRPG
universe to include every notion of every SF book
in print. Games that focus on these other
story elements can also be dificult to adapt to the grand
sweep of galactic history that is Traveller.
>
>2 Bad Rules,exspecially Char Creation:
>Whatever RPG,players have preferences about after
>which favorite SF Character they like to base theirs.
>But with a random system?
Which is IMO the most interesting chargen sequence
available. It's far more intriguing in my experience to
have a Random charecter with unique strengths and
weaknesses than to fiddiously (new word means fiddly
and hideous all rolled into one.) check off advantages
disadvantages and quirks (appologies to Gurps users.
If you prefer a deterministic aproach I say go for it)
But if not it's easy to use the chareer paths in a non
random fasion. Just decide on number of terms and
final rank which gives you x number of skills to choose
from the available lists.
>And what about Cyberpunks,Parahumans ( even T$R has
>made concessions to that in ALTERNITY).
Again a matter of taste.
>
>3 Outdated setting:
>The Imperium,ruled by it's glorious Fuehrer.well,you
>hardly find that in modern SF literature.And in TV and
>Movies like Star Trek or B5,the states are basicly US
>of Space.T's setting simply doesn't appeal to most SF
>fans.
Then those SF fans ought to explore SF beyond the
Trek shows, movies, and books. There is a wealth
of well writen, exciting, and intelligent science fiction
out there that isn't a wholy owned subsidiary of
paramount pictures.
>
>4 Concentration On Gearheads:
>Out of habit,I bought the complete T4 ( for 40% off,my
>game shop wanted to get rid of it),and was fascinated:
>About 5 Vehicle construction systems.GREAT.
>And ,how much,10 pages for character creation?
30 pages including the skill list which is as much or more
than you get in a lot of games. You don't have to be a
gearhead to play Traveller it just supports geerheadism
better than many other games. The really sucky thing
about the five different construction systems is that they
produce incompatible information.
>You don't succed with a game for people who just
>calculate spaceships................or draw sector
>maps.
Out of curiosity what games do you play. Every game
is going to have elements that don't appeal to every gamer.
That's why there are so many available. Outside of TSR
products I'm not sure any RPG has sold as well or as long
as Traveller. Do some people not get it? Sure. I personally
have a hard time getting superhero games. So what.
As I've said before It's a matter of taste.
David Shayne
+++++++++++++++++++++
Veni, Vidi, Vacca.
I came, I saw, I had a cow
- Bart Caeser
+++++++++++++++++++++
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2018
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, March 7 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2019
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Your Age in K'Kree...
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
POCKET EMPIRES (&DUNE)
RE: POCKET EMPIRES (&DUNE)
now what am I going to do with this closet full
Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2016
RE: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
Re: Illumniati?(was: Re: Interstellar Democracies in YTU)
Re: Regina's government
Traveller Went Down?
Oh My GOD! They Killed Kenny! YOU BASTARDS!
Re: The low jump number question
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Mercenaries
Re: Your Name in Hiver
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 15:10:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Cook
Subject: Your Age in K'Kree...
Will Richards writes:
> Subject: Your Name in Hiver
>
> To convert your name to it's hiver equivilent:
>
>
> Step 1: write down your first name add a space, add your middle name, add a
> space and then add your last name.
>
> example: William 'Mud' Richards
>
> step1: William Mud Richards
>
> If you don't belive me then you have not been manipulated by the Hivers
> enough.
LOL!! While we're at it, let do our ages in K'Kree!!
Step 1: Write down your age.
Step 2: Repeat after me: Clomp, clomp, clomp... :^)
- Mark C.
Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy
EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75
Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR
NRA (Life), GOA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)
Front Sight First Family member #1
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
mark f. cook * shoestring graphics & printing * markc@ssgfx.com
7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330 * http://www.ssgfx.com
Phone: 541-745-5709 Fax: 541-745-5818
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
64,999,987 firearm owners killed no one yesterday.
Somehow, it didn't make the news.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 17:28:20 -0500
From: "Chauncey Smith"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
wading in to this deep dark pit with out a flash light
- -----Original Message-----
From: john hamilton
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: Tuesday, March 07, 2000 1:38 PM
Subject: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
>
>1 Traveller failed to adapt to changing tastes:
>You actually can't play with practicly all modern SF
>concepts unless creating tons of material
>yourself(whoever does this DOESN`T normaly buy
>additional material),like
>Cyberpunk,Cyberspace,Nanotech,Genetic Altered
>Humans.........
>
There are actually rules for all that stuff in the traveller universe.
Cyberpunk, Cyberspace and genetic altered humans does not effect the game at
all Nanotech has some interesting effects on the game but I don't think
would hurt it much except cargo's. But Traveller wasn't intended to be a
dark future game. So the marriored shades fiction topics never really come
up. I play traveller with the gurps Ultra tech books. it works well.
>2 Bad Rules,exspecially Char Creation:
>Whatever RPG,players have preferences about after
>which favorite SF Character they like to base theirs.
>But with a random system?
>And what about Cyberpunks,Parahumans ( even T$R has
>made concessions to that in ALTERNITY).
Yes the Charater Creation system is second generation. But this is not a bad
thing. The actual number of 3rd generation systems totals about 4
GURPS,CORP,HERO/fuzion,MASTER BOOK off the top of my head) anything else
still has classes and skills. Traveller as with other 2nd generation systems
you do what you learned to do in DnD you fudge the dice.
>
>3 Outdated setting:
>The Imperium,ruled by it's glorious Fuehrer.well,you
>hardly find that in modern SF literature.And in TV and
>Movies like Star Trek or B5,the states are basicly US
>of Space.T's setting simply doesn't appeal to most SF
>fans.
>
The setting isn't out dated it's differnt. There is a differnce to being
Outdated and being differnt.
I remember introducing traveller to my friends in high school many years
ago. I remember telling them the Imperium wasn't the bad guys. LoL after
getting them off the floor. they where interested and bought it. I have real
problems with the IDEA of the US in SPACE. yea nothing is going to change
everyone votes. Heck I'm an Americain and I don't want everyone one to
really vote.
>4 Concentration On Gearheads:
>Out of habit,I bought the complete T4 ( for 40% off,my
>game shop wanted to get rid of it),and was fascinated:
>About 5 Vehicle construction systems.GREAT.
>And ,how much,10 pages for character creation?
>You don't succed with a game for people who just
>calculate spaceships................or draw sector
>maps.
>
Yes T4 was very gear headed. But that's not all there was to that game. What
about all the setting information and the ready made equipment. And all you
really need to do is generate Charaters and then write an adventure or play
a boxed one? and they had more then one canned adventure
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 12:28:39 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
On 7 Mar 00, at 13:57, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> No dictators in modern SF? Robert Pierre of the Committee for Public
> Safety in the David Weber's "Honor Harrington" series is one. Very nasty
> piece of work, too.
Who is finding out about all those old sayings about the road to hell,
and supping with the devil.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 12:28:39 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
On 7 Mar 00, at 10:35, john hamilton wrote:
> Despite beeing the 1rst SF game in print,Traveller
> failed 4 times.Why?
> There is a................ disagreement over that.
> I collected these reasons from SF sites:Which one
> matters?
>
> 1 Traveller failed to adapt to changing tastes:
> You actually can't play with practicly all modern SF
> concepts unless creating tons of material
> yourself(whoever does this DOESN`T normaly buy
> additional material),like
> Cyberpunk,Cyberspace,Nanotech,Genetic Altered
> Humans.........
Of course to add nanotech to Traveller would invalidate just about
every previously published supplement for it. Though I suppose this
would keep your sales up (unless your buyers abbandoned you in
disgust).
> 2 Bad Rules,exspecially Char Creation:
> Whatever RPG,players have preferences about after
> which favorite SF Character they like to base theirs.
> But with a random system?
> And what about Cyberpunks,Parahumans ( even T$R has
> made concessions to that in ALTERNITY).
Alternity is a whole new game (recently dropped for lack of sales -
where does that leave this argument? Maybe this sort of support is a
bad thing). While I tend to feel that T4 having a random system was a
step backwards random systems were the norm when CT and MT came out.
And even with T4 I'd like to point out that it's a whole lot easier
making that chargen system non-random than it is to randomise TNE's non-
random system.
> 3 Outdated setting:
> The Imperium,ruled by it's glorious Fuehrer.well,you
> hardly find that in modern SF literature.And in TV and
> Movies like Star Trek or B5,the states are basicly US
> of Space.T's setting simply doesn't appeal to most SF
> fans.
So Traveller should lower itself to the lowest common denominator?
GURPS:Traveller is doing fine, and it's set in the Traveller universe
in its golden age. This hardly supports your argument that Traveller
died for lack of Yanks in its space.
> 4 Concentration On Gearheads:
> Out of habit,I bought the complete T4 ( for 40% off,my
> game shop wanted to get rid of it),and was fascinated:
> About 5 Vehicle construction systems.GREAT.
> And ,how much,10 pages for character creation?
> You don't succed with a game for people who just
> calculate spaceships................or draw sector
> maps.
Strange - one of the cries on the Alternity list has been for rules for
capital ship construction (or at least description). Seeing as
Alternity is a soft-SF space opera style game where one wouldn't expect
to find gearheads in large numbers this says to me that ship
construction rules are a major part of a rules set. Better to have
plenty of them than none (and thus drive away the gearheads, of which
there are plenty, who can be relied on to but most construction rules
you publish).
The real problem with all these things is that to addres them Traveller
would've had to change its niche completely, and that could well have
cost them all their supporters without gaining them any new ones,
especially as Traveller has always been known as hard SF and as being
good for gearheads. This is a lot of legacy to overcome when trying to
change your image and market.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 00:31:21 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
Since I am not replying to what I perceive as a flame, I will do so to
the list. Please have patience with me.
Moody, Danny M. wrote:
> So, it's fine for you to be offensive on the TML, but not for anyone
> to respond in kind?
>
> Interesting...
The reason that I made that post is that I sort of wanted a discussion.
Therefore, I have to post to the list, since I am not directing my
statements at any specific person on the list.
However, I have seen how such discussions, when fed by 100+ people, can
easily grow out of proportion, ruining the list for a few weeks. That's
why I want further discussion to be off-list. The list is intended for
Traveller (and the occassional spinoff discussion about technology and
social systems), not for flamewars.
If, however, I want to have a major BBQ in my own private mailbox, that
is entirely my own problem :-)
(note that I do not request senseless flames, I want to discuss this
with people who have beliefs differing from my own atheist viewpoint)
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 23:32:02 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
At 14:04 -0500 7/3/00, john hamilton wrote:
> Despite beeing the 1rst SF game in print,Traveller
>failed 4 times.Why?
>There is a................ disagreement over that.
> I collected these reasons from SF sites:Which one
>matters?
Well, Traveller has had four editions.
CT didn't really fail, it just became enormous and was revised to the
slimmed down but errata laden MT.
MT didn't seem to fail, even in the face of CCGs and Vampire. It
petered out though. Maybe a failure, maybe killed by GDWs move to the
house system.
TNE failed because GDW went under for reasons Loren has discussed
before, not necessarily because of the line. ISTR TNE selling
because it was the only real SF RPG out.
T4 is the only edition which failed, perhaps because of the poor
production and editting qualities practised by IG. And MM pulled
their license...
GT's success indicates that the Traveller background has nothing
wrong with it, else the last eighteen months wouldn't have seen a 7
book line.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 23:36:36 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: POCKET EMPIRES (&DUNE)
At 16:41 -0500 7/3/00, "Garcia, Abel" wrote:
>I've been absent a while so I apologize in advance if this has recently been
>covered: Can anyone forward me the web address of persons & pages that deal
>with T4's _POCKET_EMPIRES_? I'm most interested in any spreadsheet tools
>that the list may have developed to manage a number of players.
Andrew Moffatt-Vallance's spreadsheet is at BITS.
http://www.bits.org.uk/ Archive link.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 18:43:19 -0500
From: "Garcia, Abel"
Subject: RE: POCKET EMPIRES (&DUNE)
Andrew Moffatt-Vallance's spreadsheet is at BITS.
http://www.bits.org.uk/ Archive link.
Dom----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
Thanks Dom!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 15:45:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: now what am I going to do with this closet full
>> Great, now what am I going to do with this closet full of
>>good to near-mint, out of print, hard to find Traveller
>>supplements?
>> Walt Smith
>Walt, for a small handling fee, I'll take care of disposing
>them for you. Wouldn't want to get your garbage hauler all
>upset now, would we...
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
Ah, heck, Walt, just tell me where you live and I'll drive over
and pick 'em up -- free of charge.
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 18:02:03 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
Walter Smith wrote:
>
<>
>
> I agree, who put these ethicists in charge of deciding what is an
> appropriate lifespan?
>
> Quoting Greek myths as if it proved some kind of point...what, am I
> supposed to start propitiating Hera and Zeus now?
You mean you don't?
Of course, right about now, hundreds of thousands of people are gathered
in my adopted home state, engaging in Bacchanalian rites (a.k.a. "Mardi
Gras").
- --
B-E-A-D-S
*@*@*@*@*@*
@ @
*@*@*@*@*@*
A-N-D
O O O
O O O O
O O O
D-O-U-B-L-O-O-N-S
HAPPY MARDI GRAS!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 23:54:57 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2016
On Tue, 7 Mar 2000 13:43:38 -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
Oh, jeez. You finally sucked me into this thread.
>
>If the administrators are also more like UN personnel than like Nazi
>conquerors in their attitudes towards the conquered people then I
>see nothing lost and much gained through using warbots and
>administrators rather than troops and administrators. They would
>also be there to help keep up the propaganda campaign which
>would have started even before the robots were dropped.
>
The argument could be made that the Canadian paratroopers in Somalia
were "UN personnel." They didn't exactly win the hearts and minds of
the locals.
================================================================================
- - Jeff Peterson j_pete@bellsouth.net
"Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you when you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;"
-"Tommy" by Rudyard Kipling
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
NOG #74 AirStar Nova 700
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 18:01:39 -0600
From: "Moody, Danny M."
Subject: RE: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jens Rydholm [mailto:jenry023@student.liu.se]
> Since I am not replying to what I perceive as a flame, I will do so to
> the list. Please have patience with me.
It wasn't a flame, and wasn't meant to be - I was being curious. It seemed to me inconsistent that you would state things that you are very aware could be perceived as offensive, yet deride responses on the list that might also be perceived as offensive.
> (note that I do not request senseless flames
There are sensible flames? Oh yeah, for those K'kree BBQs
vargr1 UPP-8D9B85
- ---------------------------- Omnia dicta fortiora, si dicta latina.
Meyers-Briggs personality type: ENTJ vargr1@jcn1*com
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with." dmoody@bridge*com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 09:48:54 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley"
Subject: Re: Illumniati?(was: Re: Interstellar Democracies in YTU)
> From: Ingo Heinscher <
> >Well, there _is_ something interesting about the revolutionaries of this
> >period (not just in France): they tended to organise in secret
societies.
> >One of these existed for a time in southern Germany. It was called the
> >Bavarian Illuminati...
>
> Isn't it intersting that those guys are not one-tenth as popular in
Germany
> than in the U.S.? I learned that they might have existed from a GURPS
book...
There's just a different strand of nutty conspiracy theories in the US than
in Germany. Of course, the historically most common conspiracy theory in
Germany went a bit out of fashion in 1945....
The Bavarian Illuminati definitely existed. They just weren't of any
particular importance. There were lots of other conspiratorial groups too.
The organised socialist movement began in this milieu too. The first such
group is generally considered to have been the "Conspiracy of Equals" in
France in the late 1790s. It was broken up, and its leader guillotined. A
few decades later, there were other groups, like the Society of the
Seasons, which was led by a guy called Blanqui. He had other groups too,
and in fact spent most of his life either organising conspiracies aimed at
launching insurrections, or serving time in prison as a result. The League
of the Just was a conspiratorial group that formed among German (mostly
Prussian) exiles, which adopted the political program (manifesto) developed
by a couple of young German intellectuals, ditched the conspiratorial forms
(secret handshakes, oaths and so on), and changed their name to the
Communist League...
Then there were lots of nationalist groups in Italy, and so on, ad
infinitum.
The "modern" conspiracy theorists in the US are generally far-right
religious nutcases, who lump everything they don't like together into this
great all-encompassing thing, and invent factoids to explain away its
obvious absurdity. In the end, though, they are basically working with a
dualist distortion of Christianity, and the "power" behind the conspiracy
is Satan.
The satirical version of the conspiracy - the one we work with - was
developed by a couple of authors in the US a couple of decades ago, and has
been picked up by other people.
I mentioned that the French revolutionary leaders were part of the school
of "Illuminism" mostly to boggle any bogglable minds. It's true, though.
Of course these "secret societies" are mainly on the order of the
Freemasons, but such groups can be important under certain circumstances,
particularly when they are pretty much the only existing forms of political
organisation.
Apartheid-era South Africa had some fairly influential White Boys' Clubs
among the elite, while the Unionists in Northern Ireland still partly
organise through outfits like the Orange Order (no Catholics allowed, thank
you!). It's a backward, old-fashioned way of organising these days, but
then, these are/were pretty backward, old-fashioned political movements.
To get back to Traveller: the oligarchic nature of the Imperium, and the
Solomani Confederation, lend themselves to secret societies. Basically,
the elites are small enough that it's quite likely that they would hang
around in their own exclusive clubs, from which the riff-raff would be
excluded. In particular, I wouldn't be surprised if the Imperial occupied
sections of the Solomani Confederation wasn't full of such clubs, where at
least some sections of the nobility and other bigshots gather, and prepare
for the day when they become the local leadership of the Solomani Party
_again_.
Because the Imperium isn't a democracy, and neither are many of its member
worlds, popular opposition groups will also often need to take on some
conspiratorial forms (cell structures, false names, and the like). Some of
them may even have the full business of elaborate initiation rituals, funny
handshakes and so on too. (Others won't - I generally regard the Ine Givar
as being in this category.)
Some extra-Imperial states exhibit conspiratorial forms in their
governments. The Federation of Arden is run by the Arden Society, which
has clear masonic overtones. The Society of Equals in the Vargr Extents
has ritualistic elements, with special procedures in place to equalise
members' charisma during its gatherings. Then there are the Hivers, for
whom conspiracy is a way of life...
Of course, all of this is a distinctly one-sided view of how the OTU works.
That's what conspiracy theories are!
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 01:17:34 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen
Subject: Re: Regina's government
James Earl writes:
>>>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen
>>I thought Yori, or maybe just part of it, was the personal fief
>>of the Dukes of Regina. I don't recall the source.
Norris is Baron of Yori. It's one of his lesser titles. But nothing says
that it is a personal fief.
>Actually, it was my understanding that Regina was the domain of the Aledon
>family, who just happened to also hold the hereditary title "Duke of
>Regina".
I don't recall any canonical statement to that effect. Norris is Duke of
Regina (the subsector), Count Aledon, Marquis of Regina (the system), and
Baron of Yori.
>It seems likely to me that the ruler of Regina was made Subsector Duke when
>Regina entered the Imperial fold, as opposed to the Subsector Duke
>receiving Regina as his personal fief.
But that is not the case (Propably Regina was not an autocracy in 250, so
there would not have been a sole ruler of Regina). Up until the Civil War
Regina didn't even rate a marquis but only a baron (Which is kinda strange,
since Regina was the most important world of the subsector in 250).
Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
events based on the individual situation."
_76 Patrons_, p. 8
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 19:20:40 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Traveller Went Down?
<< TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN >>
Traveller went down? How come nobody tells me about these things? Here I've
been dedicating my life to writing stuff for a dead system -- geez lou-eeze...
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 00:51:57 +0100
From: "Carl Roger Nilsen"
Subject: Oh My GOD! They Killed Kenny! YOU BASTARDS!
>I wonder how to say "Oh My GOD! They Killed Kenny! YOU BASTARDS!" in
>Russki? That I'll bet was their general attitude toward the Hitlerites.
>
>Oh meu deus, mataram Kenny! Os bastardos!
Herregud! De drepte Kenny! BASTARDER!
Well, Norwegian anyway...
Carl Roger Nilsen
Vilani: Karukane Shiraagineraager
Zhodani: Irezhrezr Ne'sthlen
"Never overlook something that seems to be simple"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 01:28:30 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen
Subject: Re: The low jump number question
Ingo Heinscher writes:
>On the Vargr, they stopped expanding when they encountered other, stronger
>empires than their own pocket states.
Not in all directions. The Vargr were halfway down into Gvurrdon Sector in
- -2400, yet they don't manage to get the 20 parsecs further down into the
Spinward Marches until the Imperials are powerful enough to prevent them
from encroaching. That's around 600, 3000 year later! Up until around 100
the Spinward Marches were mostly empty and they don't really begin to fill
up in earnest until around 400. The presumption is that Gvurrdon had its
version of the Long Night between -2400 and 600.
>And the Aslan were mostly stopped in their spherical expansion by Solomani
>and the Great Rift (though this doesn't explain why the Aslan have not
>seized much more territory beyond Charted space... but perhaps they have,
>and map just don't show that, or these clans are not part of the Hierate).
The Aslans just don't expand very quickly, at least not when they have to
cross the Great Rift to do it. They first crossed the GF around -1000 and
3000 years later they still don't cover more than about 13 subsectors worth.
And that includes all the scattered Aslan splinter states.
Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
events based on the individual situation."
_76 Patrons_, p. 8
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 18:36:38 -0600
From: Michael Maley
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
john hamilton wrote:
>
> Despite beeing the 1rst SF game in print,Traveller
> failed 4 times.Why?
> There is a................ disagreement over that.
> I collected these reasons from SF sites:Which one
> matters?
>
> 1 Traveller failed to adapt to changing tastes:
> You actually can't play with practicly all modern SF
> concepts unless creating tons of material
> yourself(whoever does this DOESN`T normaly buy
> additional material),like
> Cyberpunk,Cyberspace,Nanotech,Genetic Altered
> Humans.........
>Well, I've heard that one from my nephew-but he thinks cyborgs are da bomb. Personally, I feel TL 13-15 battledress is much niftier and safer than implants. Of, my nephew and his friends never picked up a copy of Traveller and wouldn't peruse mine so.. and I have used cyborgs in my game on requests using rules from the Robots book. But I agree that more published material would have been nice. But Traveller is a real reward for the creative GM. It's one of the few game systems that allows you to play with and alter the setting. In my game, the Rebellion never happened, and virus is a fairly lethal but non-galaxy-threatening problem.
> 2 Bad Rules,exspecially Char Creation:
> Whatever RPG,players have preferences about after
> which favorite SF Character they like to base theirs.
> But with a random system?
> And what about Cyberpunks,Parahumans ( even T$R has
> made concessions to that in ALTERNITY).
> Disagree with this one, I've had more player get into gaming (my wife included) because of Traveller's rules and character generation.
> 3 Outdated setting:
> The Imperium,ruled by it's glorious Fuehrer.well,you
> hardly find that in modern SF literature.And in TV and
> Movies like Star Trek or B5,the states are basicly US
> of Space.T's setting simply doesn't appeal to most SF
> fans.
> I don't know about this one. I've know more local players upset with the Imperium's downfall than its concept. Personally, I'm a fan of space opera myself.
> 4 Concentration On Gearheads:
> Out of habit,I bought the complete T4 ( for 40% off,my
> game shop wanted to get rid of it),and was fascinated:
> About 5 Vehicle construction systems.GREAT.
> And ,how much,10 pages for character creation?
> You don't succed with a game for people who just
> calculate spaceships................or draw sector
> maps.
> Can't comment on this one, I usually get technical help myself. One of the reasons I never got on the Traveller webring was I couldn't figure how to load the frgaments onto my site. Though I do like to do maps and design vehicles/ships. I love the Hexmap shareware. Been generating subsectors in Touchstone with it.
darkhstarr
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
> http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 16:48:28 -0800
From: "Robert Snyder"
Subject: Mercenaries
There has been a lot of discussion regarding mercenaries and so I
would like to point you to the following websites:
www.abc.net.au/m/talks/bbing/stories/s10759.htm
www.thewinds.org/archive/government/military8-97.html
Executive Outcomes (EO) is a mercenary outfit headquartered in South
Africa. Military Professional Resources, Inc. (MPRI) calls itself a
military consultancy and is based in the United States.
These websites are several years old. To the best of my knowledge EO
is no longer operating--a victim of international pressures banning
the use of mercenaries. MPRI--a military consultancy (not
mercenaries--yah right)--thrives--and not coincidentally is an
American firm.
Some of the dollars associated with these types of contracts seem to
be very high. Reportedly, EO was paid 100+ million USD for its
efforts in Sierra Leone.
ObTrav: Should be obvious. It pays to be on really really good
terms with the local nobles and megacorporations. There is REAL
money to be made here.
______________________________________________________________
Get Your Free E-mail and Homepage at http://www.prontomail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 02:05:49 +0100
From: "Carl Roger Nilsen"
Subject: Re: Your Name in Hiver
>From: "will richards"
>Step 1: write down your first name add a space, add your middle name, add a
>space and then add your last name.
Carl Roger Nilsen
Carl Roger Nilsen
Vilani: Karukane Shiraagineraager
Zhodani: Irezhrezr Ne'sthlen
Hiver: Carl Roger Nilsen
"Never overlook something that seems to be simple"
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2019
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Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #2019
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, March 7 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2020
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Using no ground troops
Re: Silent Weapons
Re: call charges
RE: Top 4 reasons for Traveller failure
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2016
Re: Your Name In Vilani
"Traveller failed four times"
RE: Top 4 reasons for Traveller failure
Re: Your Name in Vilani & Zhodani
Re: Mercenaries
Re: Traveller Went Down?
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000 - Don't blame me for the subject line
Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
Imperial anagathics research and The Dead Hand
TOP 4 REASONS (warning, long)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 02:06:15 +0100
From: "Carl Roger Nilsen"
Subject: Re: Using no ground troops
>If the robots stun and apprehend anyone carrying weapons, destroy
>all weapons not in the hads of the administrators, kill only to
>protect lives, I see them as being considerably less unpopular than
>most invading armies. Even if they merely warn anyone carrying a
>weapon to drop it and then kill them, they are not worse than most
>invading armies.
"Please put down your weapon. You have 20 seconds to comply."
...............
"You now have 5 seconds to comply."
.....
"I am now authorized to use force."
Point given. (Robocop)
Sensors might still register weapon close to foe, and poor AI routines are not able to distinguish a carried weapon from a displaced weapon.
Carl Roger Nilsen
Vilani: Karukane Shiraagineraager
Zhodani: Irezhrezr Ne'sthlen
Hiver: Carl Roger Nilsen
"Never overlook something that seems to be simple"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 09:59:26 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: Silent Weapons
On Thu, 2 Mar 2000 12:08:07 EST, Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 3/2/00 4:21:35 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
> gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:
>
> << she probably went into shock quickly. >>
>
> I hope so...:-(. Not the worst way to die, but certainly not the best way
> either...:-(. I hope they caught the a**h**e
I don't think so. There were rumours that the girl was the daughter of
either a prominent Hong Kong businessman or drug dealer.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing is impossible for anyone impervious to reason
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 20:29:30 -0500
From: "J-Man"
Subject: Re: call charges
At www.dialpad.com, one can make free long distance calls. I used it to
call my friends in Vancouver, Wa, 3,137 miles away from me. Talked for an
hour with no problems in quality.
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Leonard Erickson"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2000 4:48 AM
Subject: Re: call charges
>
> Fidonet just put the "hubs" in Portland, and the folks from the suburbs
> relayed their packets thru them.
>
> I hear that down in California at one time there were systems set up
> where you could reach a BBS via something like *8* call forwarding
> hops!
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 01:28:01 GMT
From: "Boris Cibic"
Subject: RE: Top 4 reasons for Traveller failure
Well...before I get flamed...let us agree that the gentleman who posted this
does have a point. Traveller has not managed to recruit larger numbers of
players because of its stiff adherence to one formula for over 23 years.
Don't get me wrong...I like the formula but, the overall game system needs
an overall if it is to keep itself relevant. G:T for its faults is doing
that. We can only hope that T5 will continue work in this direction. For
me, I hope there will be a renewed emphasis on storytelling which is the
essence of RPGs thus, embleshing and elabourating on background and openning
up of possibilities. A reading of CT, tells you that there is an entire
universe which is wonder-filled, mysterous, filled with enigmas. All
discussions, on the TML regarding cannon, seem like medievel scholars
debating how many angels dance on the head of a pin. Cannon ought to be the
background on the canvas not, the whole scene.
>1 Traveller failed to adapt to changing tastes:
>You actually can't play with practicly all modern SF concepts unless
>creating tons of material yourself (whoever does this DOESN`T normaly buy
>additional material), like Cyberpunk, Cyberspace, Nanotech, Genetic Altered
>Humans.........
So what is the harm in creating that ton of material or at least,
appropiating from other sources. My Traveller campaign often crossed over
into Genetic Alterned species, cyberpunk worlds, dark futures. CT provided
a template for all these activities. MT required work to incorporate them.
But, the secret was not to let the rebellion get in the way of good
adventure rather have it as an inconvience. On Hi Tech & Hi Pop worlds why
wouldn't we see a proliferation of such technologies...
>2 Bad Rules, exspecially Char Creation:
Here I would have to agree. A point system or give the players of never
retiring quickly remedyed the flaws in the system especially when the
Advanced Character generation kicked in. I agree it would be more
beneficial to have Travellers constructed on the basis of a point system but
again what stops one from designing it. The traveller rules were built to
accumulate experience through skills while that is outdated somewhat these
days, it is one which could be remedyed with the addition of cascade skills,
brownie points, and other devices which were elabourated in MT and JTAS.
TNE opened whole other sets of careers also for players. So what stops one
from appropiating... I think that the gentleman forgot the main focus in
Traveller was travelling seeing the frontier first hand. Something that has
remained constant throughout, which meant that Travellers were smoes like
you and me. Not high charged action heroes (figures) a la Luke Skywalker
although, they could aspire to those heights, if the referee and players
conspired to do so.
>3 Outdated setting: The Imperium,ruled by it's glorious Fuehrer.
A Fuerher to some, an enigma to many others...MT did destroy the mystery
surronding the Emperor. That does not mean that all Traveller universes
have done so. Usually, the political structure of the 3I is more of a
hindernce then a help in a Traveller universe. The secret would be to keep
the power elite cornered off as an enigma, unless your campaign revolves
around high nobles centered in the Core sector, the emperor is an enigma.
His/Her power is through Imperial institutions which vary from planet to
planet, thus leaving room for many different interpetations of what the 3I
really is. Only when players leave 3I space do they begin to get an
appreciation of the difference.
4 Concentration On Gearheads:
For some, obviously not enough.., but the design rules are there for those
who wish to use them, like the Trade rules, there can be plenty of room for
the add-ons in an adventure without going completely in one direction. This
why I am glad Marc brought back the LLBs it shows a Traveller universe has
to be a balanced universe which means, navy actions play a role but so does
equally trading as does exploring, a good referee has these rules handy just
when the players ask for them not to play them all the time.
5. I THINK THE TML OUGHT TO FOCUS ON WHAT MAKES TRAVELLER GREAT...convience
others, and hopefully see it materialize in T5 because, I do not want to buy
a T6.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 17:32:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Ray Wiberg
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2016
y
On Tue, 7 Mar 2000, Pete wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Mar 2000 13:43:38 -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> Oh, jeez. You finally sucked me into this thread.
> >
> >If the administrators are also more like UN personnel than like Nazi
> >conquerors in their attitudes towards the conquered people then I
> >see nothing lost and much gained through using warbots and
> >administrators rather than troops and administrators. They would
> >also be there to help keep up the propaganda campaign which
> >would have started even before the robots were dropped.
> >
> The argument could be made that the Canadian paratroopers in Somalia
> were "UN personnel." They didn't exactly win the hearts and minds of
> the locals.
Or that elite unit of happy Belgian paratroopers, who roasted folks on
fires and urinated on them...Somalia was an eyeopener for concerning UN
forces.
A soldier is a soldier...
Ray
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 20:31:50 -0500
From: Eric Freitas
Subject: Re: Your Name In Vilani
Greetings from
Erikesirarii Danuuk
Eric & Diane Freitas
ericfrei@gte.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 17:46:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: "Traveller failed four times"
"Traveller failed four times."
I'm usually not one to be a positive-thinking, self-esteem
improving, boosterism type, but come on, look at the facts.
Traveller was published in 1977. It's still being published in
2000 -- over twenty years later -- and by one of the top game
companies.
How many other role-playing games published in or around 1977
are still being published at all?
If Traveller is an example of failure, we should all hope to
fail so well.
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 11:46:13 +1000
From: "Scout Harris"
Subject: RE: Top 4 reasons for Traveller failure
- --
>5. I THINK THE TML OUGHT TO FOCUS ON WHAT MAKES TRAVELLER GREAT...convience
>others, and hopefully see it materialize in T5 because, I do not want to buy
>a T6.
Unless, of course, T6 is to Megtraveller what T5 is to Classic. Then a lot of people may be throwing money at it!
Hmmm.... me included actually!
Scout
Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 21:03:31 -0500
From: Eric Freitas
Subject: Re: Your Name in Vilani & Zhodani
> I have some uneasiness about it as well.
> Not sure why. Mabye the last name
> twice and/or not using a middle name
> causes too much similarity to the original
> name.
>
> E.G.
>
> Danielssteve Slienad
> Denialseve'tszh Shtlianeds
Certainly not in my case..
FreitascirEsatierF
Vriate's Zhre'se'tirvr
I would have a hard time recognizing this as my name.
- --
Eric & Diane Freitas
ericfrei@gte.net
- --------------------
Erikesirarii Danuuk
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 02:41:15 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: Mercenaries
On Tue, 7 Mar 2000 16:48:28 -0800, "Robert Snyder"
wrote:
>There has been a lot of discussion regarding mercenaries and so I
>would like to point you to the following websites:
>
>www.abc.net.au/m/talks/bbing/stories/s10759.htm
>www.thewinds.org/archive/government/military8-97.html
>
>Executive Outcomes (EO) is a mercenary outfit headquartered in South
>Africa. Military Professional Resources, Inc. (MPRI) calls itself a
>military consultancy and is based in the United States.
>
>These websites are several years old. To the best of my knowledge EO
>is no longer operating--a victim of international pressures banning
>the use of mercenaries. MPRI--a military consultancy (not
>mercenaries--yah right)--thrives--and not coincidentally is an
>American firm.
>
>Some of the dollars associated with these types of contracts seem to
>be very high. Reportedly, EO was paid 100+ million USD for its
>efforts in Sierra Leone.
>
>ObTrav: Should be obvious. It pays to be on really really good
>terms with the local nobles and megacorporations. There is REAL
>money to be made here.
>
>______________________________________________________________
>Get Your Free E-mail and Homepage at http://www.prontomail.com
EO is defunct. There's another mercenary company called Sandline at
http://www.sandline.com/site/index.html
Interesting stuff. I believe MPRI also has a web site but I don't have
it.
================================================================================
- - Jeff Peterson j_pete@bellsouth.net
"Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you when you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;"
-"Tommy" by Rudyard Kipling
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
NOG #74 AirStar Nova 700
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 20:06:12 -0700
From: "Legate Legion"
Subject: Re: Traveller Went Down?
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
><< TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN >>
>
>Traveller went down? How come nobody tells me about these things? Here I've
>been dedicating my life to writing stuff for a dead system -- geez
lou-eeze...
>
>LKW
And, I have been busy following you & playing a dead game, why didn't
someone tell me?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 19:58:30 -0700
From: "Legate Legion"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
From: john hamilton
>> No game can keep up with real science. Traveller
>> was developed before Star Wars. I will however
>> grant you that going forward, it would be nice, IMO,
>> if Traveller tech were updated based on the science
>> of the last 25 years, but that would mean a total
>> re-creation of the Traveller universe. That might
>> be
>> interesting.
>
>EVERYTHING CAN AND MUST KEEP UP WITH SCIENCE.AND IF
>YOU PRINT DIFFERENT EDITIONS EVERY FEW YEARS,NORMALY
>THAT ISN'T A PROBLEM....
As new things crop up in science everyday, it would seem to me that if
you want to keep up with science, you would have to put out a new edition
about every 6 months. Kinda would bother me that say I buy T5 on 1/1/2001,
I would have to buy T6 on 7/1/2001 just to keep up with the current
incarnation of the system, & to be honest with you, I don't think anyone can
do that, nor would I want to plunk down $70 a year on core books.
Btw, please do not yell at us.
>> > 2 Bad Rules,exspecially Char Creation:
>> > Whatever RPG,players have preferences about after
>> > which favorite SF Character they like to base
>> theirs.
>> > But with a random system?
>>
>> Are you crazy? That is the best thing about
>> Traveller.
>> Its unique career-based chargen system is its
>> hallmark.
>> Nothing says Traveller more to me than its Chargen
>> system.
>Well Travellers problems is that it appeals only to a
>few...That these people like it VERY MUCH ("THIS IS
>MADE PERFECT FOR ME!") doesn't change it.
Actually, I have found that most gamers like the Traveller Character
Creation system, as it is almost a game into itself.
> It was the inspiration for a similar system
>> in
>> the recent computer game System Shock 2.
>
>Well,what's probably the reason why other games(who
>stay in print) are not using it?
Looking at my LUG Star Trek Books (btw, I think MM is working for LUG
now), it sems to me that it follows the same ideas of character creation as
Traveller. I.e. youth, education, enlistment. And, as I have just got some
emails for the people over at LUG today, it seems to me that LUG is still in
print, & will stay in print for a long time. Also, they will use the same
basic system in their Dune RPG, but I am sure you do not want to hear
someone rebutal your idea that no other game uses a system like Traveller
Character Creation.
Leading Edge Games also use the same idea in all of their games.
> Sounds like you
>> want a
>> fashionable trendy game
>
>The main argument of snobs.
A few thoughts here, you insult us, you attack us, you troll upon this
ML. Back off bud, that is my job. Hell, I think I am one of the few people
that have pissed off Doug Berry, & now you are trying to do it. Quit
stealing my thunder.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 14:01:52 +1000
From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au
Subject: Re: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000 - Don't blame me for the subject line
On Sun, 5 Mar 2000 21:08:42 +1100
Ian Whitchurch wrote:
>It is possibly apocryphal, but Rommel is said to have said at one point that
>he would take Australians as assault troops, but for the all-around best
>troops he would pick New Zealanders.
>Incidentally, they are having a good long think about their armed forces at
>the moment, and are thinking about a military based around patrol boats and
>a couple of Army battalions for peacekeeping.
You're not wrong there. I'm just back from a trip to New Zealand, and I got
a shock when I went to visit Wigram AFB (on the south island), their oldest
airbase.
It's being sold off as a housing estate.
Not only that, but most of their attack aircraft are now based in Nowra
(AUSTRALIA).
None of their military aircraft are based in the south island at all.
Also, they intend to keep their Orion aircraft flying until they are retired in
25
years time, by which time they will be 60 YEARS OLD!
The Air Force had plans to purchase new fighters, but the government looks
likely to cancel that because of the cost.
I may be an outsider, but it sure looks to me as if the NZ government is
ignoring their defense responsibilities in order to save a few dollars.
Graeme Batho
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 22:25:16 EST
From: TDRandall@aol.com
Subject: Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
I guess it's just a matter of perspective. When already faced with eternity in heaven, what's the big deal with perhaps a (couple?) hundred more years here?
My fear would be the continued, even increased, separation of "have"s and "have-not"s. I mean, whoever is in control (whether you think of that as individuals or as a generation as a whole) is going to make sure to STAY in control for a long long time! I suppose some may think me paranoid, but can't you forsee ruling parties that have held office for 100+ years, while their constituencies keep living 70ish years (or less if things REALLY divide)?
Tony
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 21:34:20 -0600
From: Rob Eaglestone
Subject: Imperial anagathics research and The Dead Hand
Regina (Regina/Spinward Marches 1910) 115-1102
The Duke's own Huscarles have been deployed to deal
with a radical sect who have been bombing Marliiner
Labs, a local research firm. The sect, known as The
Dead Hand, has lately come under the influence of
the rabidly anti-anagathic Baarut Sha. In a timed
quote sent on holovid minutes after the blast that
killed 50 and flattened one of Marliiner Labs'
institutes last week, Sha made this announcement:
"We offer our passionate praise of death. A life
without death is meaningless. The natural ambitions
of career and family are satisfied within a life span
of 80 years. Death to the megacorporations which
profit at the expense of humaniti."
Bishop Fregic Anjian, of the Margate, Regina parish
of the Imperial Cristano Church, released a condemnation
of the sect's behavior, mentioning that
"...Many people, Cristano or not, have lived past 100
years without anagathics or excomunication from the
Church. Therefore I conclude that the cult may prefer
to stir people up with meaningless controversy."
Some local religious officials had additional gripes
of their own to offer. One friar, who asked to
remain nameless (but whose profile has been identified
by our network computers as a Friar Eneri Balander),
used the opportunity to also level some punches at
Imperial research:
"There is a tendency to worship science for its' own
sake, without considering its consequences. So we parrot
out our fatalisms: progress is inevitable, so why fight
it? What is wrong with breaking a few eggs along the way?
Because people don't understand ethics, they cannot explain
why they feel uneasy when science seems to intrude on the
very nature of humaniti. It is all too easy to brush off
such feelings as mere affections."
The Friar also made some passing shots to worlds where
vivisection -- the dissecting of animals (and people)
while still alive to advance the knowledge of [xeno]biology --
is legal. The Imperium does not condone such behavior,
but neither does it condemn it (actually, it profits
nicely by it).
Certain noblemen also expressed concern over the control
megacorporations have over scientific concerns, and the
implications of that for humaniti as a whole. One
Gentleman went so far as to say
"...it seems to me that scientists, by necessity of having
a very demanding schooling, are not well versed in ethics.
Perhaps related to this, they seem to me to be pragmatic
and ego driven. After all, their training is in the physical
world of concrete objects and man-made artifacts [physical,
mental, or electronic]. Ethics is somewhat alien to that type
of world -- ethics becomes an add-on, and really loses its
independence. But then, social behavior is also somewhat
stunted in the scientific world."
Scientists are quick to point out that their vocation does
not stunt their social life at all. However, some scientists
are worried about the seemingly perpetual tendency to vault
Imperial science above people. Dr. Nathler Rellevert, a cultural
anthropologist of Ktach Shashen of Margate province, Regina:
"Science is a useful tool for conquering the galaxy. But if
it is a tool, then it is subordinate to the needs of humaniti.
And for that you need philosophers, not scientists. It's
called division of labor: if you're an Imperial Marine then
I'd rather you defend me against the Zhodani than teach
Galanglic to Vargr -- unless you're a diplomat, too. But we
can't be everything."
- ---
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 22:41:39 -0500
From: Laning
Subject: TOP 4 REASONS (warning, long)
On 7 Mar 2000 10:35:54 -0800 (PST), johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com wrote:
>Subject: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
>
> Despite beeing the 1rst SF game in print,Traveller
>failed 4 times.Why?
>There is a................ disagreement over that.
> I collected these reasons from SF sites:Which one
>matters?
>
>1 Traveller failed to adapt to changing tastes:
>You actually can't play with practicly all modern SF
>concepts unless creating tons of material
>yourself(whoever does this DOESN`T normaly buy
>additional material),like
>Cyberpunk,Cyberspace,Nanotech,Genetic Altered
>Humans.........
<<>>
Thanks for opening *that* can of worms, John! LOL. I will respond to it
at face value, rather than as a troll for flames. I realize the reasons
you listed aren't necessarily ones you believe yourself. They are a
synthesis of the published reasons others gave on the WWW that you've
encountered. Here are my thoughts. At length. I thank everyone who takes
the time to read them.
Reason 1, see rant below.
Reason 2, bad rules, esp. character generation. I disagree emphatically.
One of the almost universal variants I have encountered in different
Traveller games is referees who use a point system instead of dice for
character generation. Or my own variant, which was finally made canon in
T4, to let the player use the charts making their own decision instead of
relying on dice. Either variation of the rules is obvious to even the most
casual of observers, and intuitive. They both take care of the only
serious objection most people have to the CT rule system. Plus, there are
people who *like* doing it with dice (albeit, the minority). Overall, the
rules have an elegance and simplicity one would hope for from a
mathematical solution or classical music. Good rules, IMHO!
Reason 3, outdated setting. I disagree emphatically. Hello? Show me a
popular RPG that hasn't included kings, emperors, and such like at the top
of the social heap. It has to be a *popular* game, remember. Or at least
more commercially successful than any of Traveller's incarnations was.
Reason 4, game mechanics too complex (gearhead oriented). I disagree,
mostly. My contention is that the less direct control Marc Miller has had
in a particular volume, the more this tends to be a problem. See T3, and
what T4 turned into. CT was pretty simple, even starship design. MT
ranged from simple to somewhat complex in places (depending on Marc's
direct involvement?). One of my all-time favorite publications was
Starship Operations and I have various spreadsheets for calculating MT ship
designs, so maybe I am a gearhead and you shouldn't listen to me. On the
other hand, I find FF&S supplements repulsive, excruciating, and confusing,
so maybe I'm not such a wonk after all. I like to think I'm in the middle
of the spectrum of Traveller players. Remember, ship design usually
doesn't become part of a player's life unless they are actively interested
in that aspect of the game.
I have to *partly* agree with your first reason. Though I don't think
tastes changed so much as the degree of work involved, as well as sheer
talent required from a referee, was not much to anyone's taste to begin
with. Even with the fairly massive amount of source material that was
eventually published, Traveller referees have a pretty huge burden. Let's
compare your usual, median fantasy RPG with a star-spanning Traveller game.
(1) Referee has to create--or at least be more familiar with than his
players--not just one world, but dozens or probably hundreds.
(2) An FRPG world tends to be a fractional world with a total population of
a very few millions absolute tops. Traveller is a game of *many* planets,
usually encompassing all of each planet, not just a fraction. There are
just more people and critters and climes and maps for a referee to manage.
At least one order of magnitude more 'stuff' for a referee to track. My
own feeling is four or even more orders of magnitude.
(3) An FRPG has a very structured and heirarchical social order. Players
must limit their behaviors and actions much more than in Traveller, for the
simple reason that the arbitrary, medieval social order (or the gods) are
likely eliminate them from play immediately. In Traveller, not only are
there a variety of social orders from world to world, but even in different
places around the world. Most of them quite modern and cosmopolitan, so
players don't usually get in trouble just for looking or acting a little
bit differently anymore than somebody on a New York city sidewalk would.
In Traveller games, almost anything a player can conceive of trying to get
away with, they may well attempt. The referee has a much more difficult
time controlling the plot. (Though not all referees like to control the
plot, some prefer to allow the players free reign while the referee
interprets results. Either way is more work than your average FRPG.)
(4) Traveller is a land of many mature post-industrial economies, with the
resources of many advanced technologies, and pretty much anything you can
conceive of is available for sale on the open market. This presents the
referee the task of knowing how *all* of the things a player is interested
in work. And players will be interested in nearly *all* of it. In an
FRPG, neither engineering nor scientific knowledge are much required.
Knowledge of game mechanics and spell lists is most of it.
(5) For the same reason as in (4), the motives and methods of Traveller
NPCs tend to be just...more. More sophisticated methods, there are more
NPCs, each one able to do more different things. Even motives tend to be
more complex in a universe that includes every possible variety of culture,
government agency, religious doctrine, etc, etc. In an FRPG, NPCs tend
(but not always) to be simpler and more clear cut. People of evil
alignment hate those of good alignment and vice versa, and whoever kills
the other first has a good day.
(6) This may sound elitist of me, but I don't think we should confuse the
demographics of the players with elitism. Or maybe not elitist, but rather
a condemnation of SF readers as blindered and compulsive? You be the
judge. This is my opinion, and not exactly a proven theory. Here goes.
Players of an SF RPG tend to have done more reading in their genre than
players of an FRPG. In other words, they are more literate within their
field. This means they tend to have more expectation of variety from their
referee's universe, are more likely to spot something that doesn't ring
true, and otherwise are just a bigger handful for a referee to manage.
(7) For the same reason as in (6), many players have extremely high
expectations of any referee, probably impossibly high. At the same time as
the referee is struggling with a greater burden than if he had chosen a
smaller, simpler universe to run. Many of the people who attempt to
referee Traveller games are judged by their own players to fall short of
being truly successful. Players who are SF fans have very high
expectations. It's not that the referees are flawed. As an example, I
currently play in my friend's SF RPG that we jokingly call Not Traveller
(!traveller, for you computer nerds). He began modifying the CT rules in
1977 to his own version and has continued evolving and modifying heavily to
this day. His adventures are very scripted and referee controlled, only
one or two worlds have been fleshed out at all, governmental and other NPCs
tend to be somewhat caricaturish, his adventures rarely include anything
scientific or engineering oriented. All these things are in comparison to
what my imagination, steeped in readings of almost every SF book published
prior to say 1975, hopes for and secretly expects. In comparison to the
couple of dozen or more referees of fantasy RPGs I've played with over the
years, he is one of the best I've ever seen. He is able to improvise well,
his engineering degree from MIT educated him pretty nicely in preparation
for managing the technological underpinnings of an advanced future society,
he is generally a brilliant and imaginative person, he has excellent people
skills (I know, I did say he was an MIT engineer, but there are exceptions
to every rule ;-), and he has spent years accumulating a huge stockpile of
game information so that he can immerse us in his universe. If he were
running an FRPG the exact same way, his perceived success compared to my
expectations would score much higher.
(8) There are several more reasons along the same lines, but you get my
drift. In Traveller, there are more NPCs who can do more things for more
reasons living in more places that the players have more ways of travelling
to and within and there are more cultures and laws governing all this while
the players have more things to possess and things they can do.
Notice that all the comparisons I've made above tend to be true about
*any* SF RPG versus any other kind of RPG. In other words, the potential
market for SF RPGs is smaller and somewhat more difficult to please.
Finally, in response to you listing only four choices for the "demise" of
each incarnation of Traveller. I would like to propose two additional
reasons, that may be even more important than what we discussed above.
Though I think it is unfair to characterize an earlier version of something
as having "demised" simply because someone brought out a newer version and
discontinued the older. (Hmm, refraining from dead parrot references to a
Monty Python skit.)
Possible Reason #1. Traveller is too sophisticated to be fun for many
people. Traveller provides a different form of reward for most people than
a Wizards & Warriors type of game does. Players don't get the same kind of
gratification in a Traveller universe from all these subtleties enumerated
above. In an FRPG, you can grab your Sword of Slashing, put on your armor,
walk out the front gate into the Nomanlands and kill, maim, destroy, and
vanquish all those monsters that can serve as proxies for your real-life
frustrations. In Traveller, that would be just so much law breaking and be
the end of the character. You need finesse, skill, and wit. You usually
don't get to kill anything/anyone. Or even pound anyone senseless. Yes,
some Traveller players do literally get away with murder at times. But
they really have to work at it. The straightforwardness of an FRPG means a
ten-year old can do it. The "civilized" milieu of a Traveller universe
means your pent-up fantasies may just have to remain pent up.
Possible Reason #2. Are we comparing Traveller to FRPGs in general or to
what? Or do we really mean we're comparing it to D&D/AD&D? Which remains
the only wildly successful RPG to date. I can't think of another RPG that
really can lay clear title to being more successful than Traveller. The
only other game that can even try to argue as long-term and loyal a
following is D&D. A final reason Traveller's publishing history may not
compare as favorably is that Marc Miller was never the sort to market a
role-playing game so unbelievably relentlessly as that most successful
publisher marketed his. That's no negative judgment on him as a person nor
businessperson. In fact, I know him only very slightly but think Marc
Miller is a prince of a guy. And I think he did a heck of a job to
actually produce a professional product well above any previous standard in
the industry with a bunch of basically hobbyists as staff. I only wish he
was rich from Traveller, because he deserves to be rich in exchange for
what he has given so many of us. To paraphrase a paraphrase, may he live
long and prosper.
In summary, the market for an SF RPG is smaller than the market for an
FRPG. CT, MT, and in some important ways T4 (first book anyway), have all
been outstanding examples of SF rules, and have yet to be surpassed or
matched by anyone else. However, TSR published the first set of RPG rules
and thoroughly exploited the marketing high ground thus gained ever since.
Thus, they took maximum advantage of an already larger potential market
than GDW was favored with. A comparison of popularity or commercial
success between the two is an unfair comparison of apples and oranges.
I also have to take exception to the characterization of Traveller as
having *failed* in four commercial incarnations. I rather think it has
been so *successful* from the start that it has constantly been revised and
republished, either by people with the resources to repeat that success or
by others. I think the first incarnation was successful, as was the
second. At least in comparison to all but a very few things published in
the game industry, not in comparison to say The Joy Of Cooking or a Stephen
King novel. The third incarnation was only using the Traveller license,
and in many ways not much like the "real Traveller", IMHO. Key
contributors had left the project, which hurt it. It actually had average
success for an RPG in its day, until its parent company died. The fourth
incarnation started out in a very promising manner, but outside events
rapidly overtook it.
If you're interested in alternate histories, think about this. Just
requires a very slight alteration in the sequence of events. What if no
one had published an RPG yet when the movie Star Wars came out, no D&D?
Then, the very first RPG published by anyone was Traveller. It would be at
least a year before another RPG of any ilk was published. How would the
commercial success and popularity of Traveller have compared then?
- --Laning
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2020
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, March 8 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2021
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Your Name in Vilani & Zhodani
[Chinese] Re: Your Name In Vilani
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: [Chinese] Re: Your Name In Vilani
Re: TOP 4 REASONS...
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
Re: Illumniati?(was: Re: Interstellar Democracies in YTU)
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN...
Re: Top 4 reasons for Traveller failure...
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2016
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
RE: Traveller Went Down?
Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Traveller Went Down?
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
RE: Your Name in Vilani & Zhodani
RE: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
RE: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000 - Don't blame me for the subject line
RE: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000 - Don't blame me for the subject line
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 21:40:08 -0600
From: Rob Eaglestone
Subject: Re: Your Name in Vilani & Zhodani
Sure! It's already been done in Java, by the way...
and not by me...
Rob
Jens Rydholm wrote:
>
> Rob Eaglestone wrote:
> > By the way, did I mention that the conversion rules
> > are now on my website?
>
> My name (Jens 'Space' Rydholm) converts neatly (?) to:
>
> Iienshirmukaakhdiirsmake
>
> Splitting this up into (somewhat) comfortable parts gives:
>
> Iienshir Mukaakh Diirsmake
>
> This system is simply too good not to implement as a small computer
> program... hmmm...
>
> Do I have permission to try coding this beauty in C++ ?
>
> /Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 21:42:51 -0600
From: Rob Eaglestone
Subject: [Chinese] Re: Your Name In Vilani
>
> There is (allegedly) a complete sentence that can be made in some Chinese
> dialect from just one sound ("na" maybe) with varying tones.
>
> Ethan
The graph is "shi", and it can represent one of five tones.
The sentence goes something like:
"shi shi shi shi shi shi shi shi shi shi shi"
Give or take a couple few "shi"s.
The sentence itself refers to the activites of 6 tigers.
It was designed to show why Latin is a poor choice of
writing systems by which Chinese may be represented.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 19:50:20 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
troll...
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 23:01:26 -0500
From: Steve Daniels
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
john hamilton wrote:
> The main argument of snobs.
Now you're getting the idea.
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 22:06:53 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: [Chinese] Re: Your Name In Vilani
Rob Eaglestone wrote:
>
> >
> > There is (allegedly) a complete sentence that can be made in some Chinese
> > dialect from just one sound ("na" maybe) with varying tones.
> >
> > Ethan
>
> The graph is "shi", and it can represent one of five tones.
> The sentence goes something like:
> "shi shi shi shi shi shi shi shi shi shi shi"
> Give or take a couple few "shi"s.
> The sentence itself refers to the activites of 6 tigers.
> It was designed to show why Latin is a poor choice of
> writing systems by which Chinese may be represented.
*shudder* I just had a mental image of Mel Tillis trying to pronounce
that sentence in Chinese....
- --
B-E-A-D-S
*@*@*@*@*@*
@ @
*@*@*@*@*@*
A-N-D
O O O
O O O O
O O O
D-O-U-B-L-O-O-N-S
HAPPY MARDI GRAS!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 20:05:40 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS...
On Tue, 7 Mar 2000 18:07:54 -0500, DaveShayne wrote:
[snip]
> >1 Traveller failed to adapt to changing tastes:
> >You actually can't play with practicly all modern SF
> >concepts unless creating tons of material
> >yourself(whoever does this DOESN`T normaly buy
> >additional material),like
> >Cyberpunk,Cyberspace,Nanotech,Genetic Altered
> >Humans.........
>
> A mater of taste. It's not necesary for a valid SFRPG
> universe to include every notion of every SF book
> in print. Games that focus on these other
> story elements can also be dificult to adapt to the grand
> sweep of galactic history that is Traveller.
By Mr. Hamilton's own reasoning, there is no such thing as a good science
fiction novel-- with the possible acception of any new books published this
year to date.
"Geez... Star Wars was so lame. Why didn't they just drop a Virus into the
Death Star's main computer, or release a culture of nanites in the reactor
core?"
But wait a minute... since those very books won't contain tomorrow's
scientific breakthroughs, they'll be crap by the time the leaves start
dropping from the trees.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Man who run behind car get exhausted.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 23:12:33 -0500
From: Steve Daniels
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
> (Except of course for the Sayat, about whom we've learned far too much.)
I for one still know nothing of the Sayat. But I'd like to.
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 20:18:24 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
On Tue, 07 Mar 2000 18:46:51 +0100, Ingo Heinscher wrote:
> At 23:03 06.03.00 -0800, James W. Lindsay wrote:
>
> >Correction: it's worlds with starports *with stuff to trade*. Profit can
> >be made every step of the way along a jump-1 main, while the same is
> >impossible jumping through three intervening empty space hexes.
>
> Agreed on both. Though I'd say that (assuming something which is not true
> for the ZS, that is, you want to build your empire by spreading your own
> population among the stars) it's still more economic to bring people to an
> off-main world and bring them the first few production goods they need
> rather than to ship them along a "main world" some one or even two years away.
Again, nobody is suggesting that production goods would be transported over
a distance of so many parsecs (ie: a year or two away). It took 300 years
for the Ziru Sirka to expand to 10 parsecs. Just pretend that it took 30
years for every 1 parsec radii expansion change and you'll see that most of
the new colonies would become quite proficient at creating the stuff
necessary for the next ring of worlds to be colonized.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Man who run behind car get exhausted.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 20:58:09 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Illumniati?(was: Re: Interstellar Democracies in YTU)
In mail you write:
> To get back to Traveller: the oligarchic nature of the Imperium, and the
> Solomani Confederation, lend themselves to secret societies. Basically,
> the elites are small enough that it's quite likely that they would hang
> around in their own exclusive clubs, from which the riff-raff would be
> excluded. In particular, I wouldn't be surprised if the Imperial occupied
> sections of the Solomani Confederation wasn't full of such clubs, where at
> least some sections of the nobility and other bigshots gather, and prepare
> for the day when they become the local leadership of the Solomani Party
> _again_.
>
> Because the Imperium isn't a democracy, and neither are many of its member
> worlds, popular opposition groups will also often need to take on some
> conspiratorial forms (cell structures, false names, and the like). Some of
> them may even have the full business of elaborate initiation rituals, funny
> handshakes and so on too. (Others won't - I generally regard the Ine Givar
> as being in this category.)
On the other hand, the could be like the Mau-mau. They went with all
sorts of rituals, most of them *very* secret, and mostly to bind the
initiates to the group by sharing in "forbidden" activities.
Other groups have done likewise. And in more "primitive" societies,
it's a very effective way of building a group of fanatical terrorists.
It's not that bad in "modern" societies either.
On the downside, groups bound by this sort of "religious" loyalty tend
to be extremists. They will be very, very good or very, very nasty.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 15:25:49 +1000
From: "The Roc"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN...
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Smith
To: 'TML'
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 7:02 AM
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
> Waitaminnit...there are problems with Traveller?
>
> Two years I been on this mailing list, and none of you guys saw fit to
> let me in on this? Thanks a bunch, guys. I made WEB PAGES, dammit!!
> And now I find out I've been wasting my time on a flawed product! Quit
> laughing over there! Geez, I feel like such an IDIOT! If it hadn't been
for John
> Hamilton here, I might never have known. Thanks John, you're a real
> lifesaver. What game should I be playing instead?
>
> Great, now what am I going to do with this closet full of good to
near-mint,
> out of print, hard to find Traveller supplements?
>
> Walt Smith
>
Aww look mate, ya just gonna have ta throw em away? Look, tell ya what I'll
do for ya, save ya cloggin' up ya bins me old china, if you pay postage to
Queensland, Australia, I'll take em off ya hands for free... how's that
sound cobber? Can't do fairer than that... ;)
- -- The Roc
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 16:06:39 +1000
From: "The Roc"
Subject: Re: Top 4 reasons for Traveller failure...
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Boris Cibic
To:
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 11:28 AM
Subject: RE: Top 4 reasons for Traveller failure
>
> Well...before I get flamed...let us agree that the gentleman who posted
this
> does have a point.
Not really, I don't see that a failed company = failed game. GDW went bust
because of many reasons, not because of Traveller? Only one system failed
and it still has a damn strong player base. TSR with AD&D/D&D almost went
by way of GDW, would someone care to honestly say that those (though not
most liked) games are failures? What would have happened to GDW and
Traveller had WotC been around then and showing interest in GDW??? *sigh*
- -- The Roc
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 21:31:35 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2016
In mail you write:
> From: Anthony Jackson
> Subject: Re: Using no ground troops
>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>> Heck, I can think of a few dozen ways of killing warbots using
>>> nothing more than wood, rope and rocks. From hundreds of
>>> yards away...
>
>>I can think of a few dozen ways of killing normal troops from that
>>distance as well. To be honest, I have doubts about the viability
>>of killing the standard 'levitating brick of bonded superdense' style
>>of warbots which tends to be encouraged by most Traveller design
>>sequences with improvised weapons, and I suspect it would be
>>extremely dangerous to try if you were anywhere near your
>>launching point (a halfway intelligent warbot program will have
>>collision avoidance and point defense and will probably dodge or
>>shoot down any improvised missiles).
>
> Very true, I really don't see much difference between the warbots
> and troops except that:
>
> 1) The warbots are much harder to ambush, since they never
> sleep, and would hover at least 5-10 m off the ground.
>
> 2) No one dies if a warbot is killed.
>
> 3) If the warbots are all master-slave units you will have images of
> what is happening when any warbot is killed. Therefore,
> investigating such incidents would be quite easy. Throw in good
> facial recognition software (which doesn't need to be much better
> than we have today) and the robots can even do much of the
> investigation.
Which is why you don't let them see faces. Heck, at least in early
attacks, it'd be "where the hell did that rock fall come from? The
robot is in a *meadow*!"
For that matter, you can build EMP "mines" that could kill a robot, but
wouldn't injure a person.
> If the robots stun and apprehend anyone carrying weapons, destroy
> all weapons not in the hads of the administrators, kill only to
> protect lives, I see them as being considerably less unpopular than
> most invading armies. Even if they merely warn anyone carrying a
> weapon to drop it and then kill them, they are not worse than most
> invading armies.
Traveller has no "stunners". There is no weapon you can equip the
robots with that is 100% non-lethal. *Any* weapon capable of stopping
an enraged adult human will *kill* a child or weakened human.
Tranq darts? The "sure stop" dose for that adrenalin charged adult will
be lethal if it hits a child.
"Rubber" bullets? These cause deaths *now*.
And hard as it is to explain and accidental death when a soldier hits
the wrong target, it'll be a thousand times *worse* if a robot does it.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 21:07:40 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
In mail you write:
> At 10:35 AM 3/7/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>> Despite beeing the 1rst SF game in print
>
> Wrong. Metamorphosis: Alpha (TSR) was in print earlier
And so were Triplanetary, Lensman, Star Force: Alpha Centauri, and a
whole bunch of others.
Met Alpha and Traveller were the first SF *role-playing* games. And
actually, I could make an argument about Cosmic Encounters being an
RPG. :-)
>>1 Traveller failed to adapt to changing tastes:
>>You actually can't play with practicly all modern SF concepts unless
>>creating tons of material yourself (whoever does this DOESN`T normaly buy
>>additional material), like Cyberpunk, Cyberspace, Nanotech, Genetic Altered
>>Humans.........
>
> I would challenge your assumption on base evidence of my own perceptions. I
> don't know what you call "modern SF", but I can see doing David Weber, Dan
> Simmon's _Hyperion_, or any number of recent SF in the Traveller framework.
Yep. And I'm strongly in favor of "GURPS sourcebooks" for Andre
Norton's stuff (even if the *history* isn't consistent, the races and
technology *are*), ditto for Poul Anderson (say the Polesotechnic
League & Empire stuff). And several other authors as well. It'd give
both Traveller and other SF-RPG types lots of stuff to borrow.
> First off, the Emperor is not the "Fuhrer" by any means. He is not a
> dictator with unchallenged executive powers. A better analogy would be the
> Roman Emperor at the height of the Empire. His has power, but needs to work
> through the existing power structure to get anything done. This means
> deals and compromise. By the way, casually throwing out references to
> Hitler and the Third Reich will not make you many friends. Many of us live
> in nations that were directly affected by that madman, or had family
> members who fought in that war.
To say nothing of the folks on the list who live in Germany and aren't
exactly fond of references to that blot on their nation's history.
> No dictators in modern SF? Robert Pierre of the Committee for Public Safety
> in the David Weber's "Honor Harrington" series is one. Very nasty piece of
> work, too.
He's got the tiger by the tail and can't let go. He had good intentions...
Now some of the Houses on Jackson's Whole in Bujolds universe are
*nasty* people.
>>And in TV and Movies like Star Trek or B5,the states are basicly US of
>>Space.T's setting simply doesn't appeal to most SF fans.
>
> This isn't Star Trek or Babylon 5. Both of these are shows I admire
> greatly, but neither of them are close to Traveller. There are RPGs
> dedicated to both these settings. The "Yank's in Space" gambit? Troll
> Meter at 54%, and rising! Traveller, has for it's twenty three year
> history, been written, published, and mostly played by Americans.
>
> I find it fascinating that in one paragraph you condemn the setting for
> having an absolute dictator, and in the next accuse the game of being too
> American!
Well, "the US in space" *is* a common (and often deserved) criticism.
On the other hand Norton's planets and cultures don't suffer from that
problem most of the time. Neither do Anderson's, Bujold's, Weber's, and
anybody making that charge against Cherryh hasn't read much!
There's *lots* of SF that makes for great examples.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 22:37:34 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff
Subject: RE: Traveller Went Down?
And I just spent the last 15 months dedicating nearly all my spare time to
generating artwork for this dead game. What the hell was I thinking? I
could have been ANIMATING, dammit! Or even trying to have a >>gasp!<<
"Social Life"!! Good thing I found out it was a dead system, or I would
have wasted at LEAST the next year or so creating even MORE stuff for
nothing.
:)
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of
> GDWGAMES@aol.com
> Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2000 4:21 PM
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: Traveller Went Down?
>
>
> << TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN >>
>
> Traveller went down? How come nobody tells me about these things?
> Here I've
> been dedicating my life to writing stuff for a dead system --
> geez lou-eeze...
>
> LKW
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 22:34:25
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
At 10:25 PM 3/7/2000 EST, you wrote:
>I guess it's just a matter of perspective. When already faced with
eternity in heaven, what's the big deal with perhaps a (couple?) hundred
more years here?
There are many, many people who do not accept the notion of an afterlife.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 22:42:13
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
At 06:36 PM 3/7/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>> Can't comment on this one, I usually get technical help myself. One of
the reasons I never got on the Traveller webring was I couldn't figure how
to load the frgaments onto my site.
Just paste the HTML in. If you like, send me the .htm file and I'll do it
for you.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 22:46:39
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Traveller Went Down?
At 07:20 PM 3/7/2000 EST, you wrote:
><< TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN >>
>
>Traveller went down? How come nobody tells me about these things? Here I've
>been dedicating my life to writing stuff for a dead system -- geez
lou-eeze...
That's OK Loren, some of us have been dedicating our lives to buying stuff
for a dead system.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 23:46:12
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
At 07:58 PM 3/7/2000 -0700, you wrote:
>From: john hamilton
>>EVERYTHING CAN AND MUST KEEP UP WITH SCIENCE.AND IF
>>YOU PRINT DIFFERENT EDITIONS EVERY FEW YEARS,NORMALY
>>THAT ISN'T A PROBLEM....
Oh, bullshit. You obviously haven't played RPGs for that long. Attempting
to foist off a new edition every few years would kill your fan base quickly.
>>Well Travellers problems is that it appeals only to a
>>few...That these people like it VERY MUCH ("THIS IS
>>MADE PERFECT FOR ME!") doesn't change it.
Amazingly enough Traveller has been an excellent product for most of its
history from the retail point of view. CT/MT sold well for fifteen years,
and even TNE had a few bright points. A great number of people play, or
have played Traveller. This is why it consistently rates high in "Best of"
polls.
>> Sounds like you want a fashionable trendy game
>>
>>The main argument of snobs.
>
> A few thoughts here, you insult us, you attack us, you troll upon this
>ML. Back off bud, that is my job. Hell, I think I am one of the few people
>that have pissed off Doug Berry, & now you are trying to do it. Quit
>stealing my thunder.
Too late.
Mr. Hamilton, I have no idea whatsoever what you are trying to accomplish
here. The mass conversion of Traveller players? Do you expect your poorly
formatted, spelled and grammatically incorrect prose to have us weeping for
redemption? Sorry. You have failed to make much of a case, and in the face
of even polite responses, have turned immediately to personal insults.
Go way, and don't bother us grownups.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
Inquisitor Maximus, Reformed Canon Church of Sylea
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 20:52:28 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: Your Name in Vilani & Zhodani
> On Behalf Of Jens Rydholm
>
> This system is simply too good not to implement as a small computer
> program... hmmm...
>
> Do I have permission to try coding this beauty in C++ ?
I've already done one in Java, took a couple of hours last night.
If you really want to do one in C++, I could send you the Java,
you could probably translate most of it.
Working on an appletication GUI for it now.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 21:02:36 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
> On Behalf Of scott brandsgaard
>
> Does this mean you're not voting for Traveller on the best RPG ever?
>
> mmm...maybe you're a Fading Suns or Dangerous Journeys fan trolling
> the TML... ;)
Trying to distract us from voting, I bet !
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 21:33:08 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000 - Don't blame me for the subject line
> On Behalf Of Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au
> You're not wrong there. I'm just back from a trip to New Zealand,
> and I got a shock when I went to visit Wigram AFB (on the south island),
> their oldest airbase.
>
> It's being sold off as a housing estate.
Which is a direct insult to Henry Wigram and his family, BTW.
> Not only that, but most of their attack aircraft are now based in Nowra
> (AUSTRALIA).
> None of their military aircraft are based in the south island at all.
With the Iroquois (yes we're still flying Iroquois) moved north there are
now no heavy lift helicopters available in the South Island of New Zealand,
an area where some farmers use helicopters or micro-lites because it's the
only reasonable way of getting from place to place given the terrain, and
there are many overseas tourists indulging in "adventure" leisure
activities.
One major rafting accident and the official med-evac capbilities would be
stretched.
> Also, they intend to keep their Orion aircraft flying until they
> are retired in 25 years time, by which time they will be 60 YEARS OLD!
The RNZAF Orions were, in 1989 (or so) after an avionics refit, the most
modern ASW planes in the world.
> The Air Force had plans to purchase new fighters, but the government looks
> likely to cancel that because of the cost.
Actually, this is a good thing, the fighters in question are F16s, which are
completely the wrong sort of aircraft for New Zealand, A10s would be better,
or an actual replacement for the Skyhawks which were perfect for our needs.
> I may be an outsider, but it sure looks to me as if the NZ government is
> ignoring their defense responsibilities in order to save a few dollars.
It's a socialist Greenie government, whaddaya expect ?
They've just increased my tax to 39c in the dollar too.
That's the problem with allowing the unemployed to vote, they'll always vote
for the party that promises to take from the rich and give to the 'poor',
and spend more on benefits for those that don't produce.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 21:33:08 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000 - Don't blame me for the subject line
> On Behalf Of Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au
> You're not wrong there. I'm just back from a trip to New Zealand,
> and I got a shock when I went to visit Wigram AFB (on the south island),
> their oldest airbase.
>
> It's being sold off as a housing estate.
Which is a direct insult to Henry Wigram and his family, BTW.
> Not only that, but most of their attack aircraft are now based in Nowra
> (AUSTRALIA).
> None of their military aircraft are based in the south island at all.
With the Iroquois (yes we're still flying Iroquois) moved north there are
now no heavy lift helicopters available in the South Island of New Zealand,
an area where some farmers use helicopters or micro-lites because it's the
only reasonable way of getting from place to place given the terrain, and
there are many overseas tourists indulging in "adventure" leisure
activities.
One major rafting accident and the official med-evac capbilities would be
stretched.
> Also, they intend to keep their Orion aircraft flying until they
> are retired in 25 years time, by which time they will be 60 YEARS OLD!
The RNZAF Orions were, in 1989 (or so) after an avionics refit, the most
modern ASW planes in the world.
> The Air Force had plans to purchase new fighters, but the government looks
> likely to cancel that because of the cost.
Actually, this is a good thing, the fighters in question are F16s, which are
completely the wrong sort of aircraft for New Zealand, A10s would be better,
or an actual replacement for the Skyhawks which were perfect for our needs.
> I may be an outsider, but it sure looks to me as if the NZ government is
> ignoring their defense responsibilities in order to save a few dollars.
It's a socialist Greenie government, whaddaya expect ?
They've just increased my tax to 39c in the dollar too.
That's the problem with allowing the unemployed to vote, they'll always vote
for the party that promises to take from the rich and give to the 'poor',
and spend more on benefits for those that don't produce.
Frankie
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2021
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, March 8 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2022
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Your Name in Vilani & Zhodani
What if . . .
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Grenades (was: Re: Silent Firearms...)
Re: Top 4 Reasons....
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Warbots
Re: warbots
Re: Using no ground troops
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Top 4 reasons for Traveller failure...
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
Traveller = One Formula?
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Oh My GOD! They Killed Kenny! YOU BASTARDS!
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: "Traveller failed four times"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 23:36:03 -0500
From: Steve Daniels
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Legate Legion wrote:
> Actually, I have found that most gamers like the Traveller Character
> Creation system, as it is almost a game into itself.
Amen. What other game has ever had the balls to kill you in chargen?
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 23:34:36 -0500
From: Steve Daniels
Subject: Re: Your Name in Vilani & Zhodani
Eric Freitas wrote:
> Certainly not in my case..
>
> FreitascirEsatierF
> Vriate's Zhre'se'tirvr
>
> I would have a hard time recognizing this as my name.
Freitas Eric satierf
Vriates Zhre setirvr
With the exception of the "Eric", that is pretty similar in
my book, though pronounciation varees..
I'd pronounce it like this:
Freitas : Fry - tas satierf : sat - earf
Vriates : Vry - tes setirvr : set - ear-ver
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 23:36:31 -0500
From: Steve Daniels
Subject: What if . . .
Jump duration was nearly instaneous?
- Centralized government, adminstration more efficient, or
"Hands on"? X-Boat travel would certainly be able to keep
the Emperor up to date and allow him to react quicker.
- Different assumptions of ship design?
I've been thinking about designing a new TU. Maybe I've been
reading too much Peter Hamilton, but I don't see why jump
travel should always take a week. And rather than get into
a discussion about why it should or shouldn't take that long,
I prefer to ask simply, what if it was instanteous?
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 00:40:35 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
- --- Paul Campbell
wrote:
> On Tue, 07 Mar 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> >
> > >And in TV and Movies like Star Trek or B5,the
> states are basicly US of
> > >Space.T's setting simply doesn't appeal to most
> SF fans.
> >
> > This isn't Star Trek or Babylon 5. Both of these
> are shows I admire
> > greatly, but neither of them are close to
> Traveller. There are RPGs
> > dedicated to both these settings. The "Yank's in
> Space" gambit? Troll
> > Meter at 54%, and rising! Traveller, has for it's
> twenty three year
> > history, been written, published, and mostly
> played by Americans.
> >
> > I find it fascinating that in one paragraph you
> condemn the setting for
> > having an absolute dictator, and in the next
> accuse the game of being too
> > American!
>
> "I actually thought he was compaining about it *not*
> being American enough,"
> said the Scotsman.
>
> And to say Traveller failed four times? John, I
> would have thought that even
> if it /had/ failed the first time, why would anyone
> have taken the financial
> risk and brought out another 3 (soon to be four -
> can't wait) versions, if
> it was such a turkey as you describe?
>
> If you think Traveller is so bad, what is it about
> the game that makes you
> play it? Forget the negative for a moment and think
> about the good bits. I'm
> sure you'll find some.
Do you really think I would be on this mailing list if
I wouldn't like Traveller?
Unless,of course,you think I'm a agent provocateur
from T$R ( the best conspiracy theories are the ones
about unimportant things.................)
Still,that doesn't mean T is perfect,and it's
fascinating how many people take crticism to their
little,pure hearts.............
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 00:49:28 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude
Subject: Re: Grenades (was: Re: Silent Firearms...)
Glenn Goffin wrote:
> This is an interesting topic drift, to go from silent weapons to
> grenades, which are by no means silent.
>
> I personally like the idea of a very large, smooth, spherical
> grenade with three holes into which the thumb and the two
> fingers are inserted not quite up to the first joint. Thrower
> holds the grenade by squeezing the thumb and fingers. Thrower
> then takes two short steps and launches the grenade underhand,
> so that it rolls along the floor. It's especially useful in the
> buiilding or starship setting to clear hallways.
Ah the Clevland model.......
- --
Evyn...
TMLUPP:5C7A78
C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/
Wish I was a better person... with more control...
Turn the other cheek... and when the punch comes, roll...
Wish I was a kinder person... could see the others pain...
Not over react, not judge... and shrug off the spreadin' stain.
Damaged, by John Shirley/Donald Roeser, BOC, Heaven Forbid 1998.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 03:19:49 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Top 4 Reasons....
john hamilton wrote:
>
> Despite beeing the 1rst SF game in print,Traveller
> failed 4 times.Why?
As several others have pointed out, Traveller has not "failed 4 times."
The closest Traveller has come to failing was with T4, and, as a game,
T4's biggest failing was an editing issue. If Traveller's setting was a
problem, then I suspect that GURPS Traveller would not have enough of an
audience to maintain GT as a viable licensed property. Loren is in a
better position to tell us how well GT is doing in the market.
Your indictment of Traveller can, AFAIKT, be summed up as follows:
1. The baseline Traveller setting does not include rules for creating
cybered-out or gengineered uebermenschen.
2. Random character generation doesn't allow players to play their
favorite SF archetype.
3. The 3I setting is outdated.
4. There is too much emphasis on "gearhead" material.
<>
While a less charitable person than myself might conclude that the
objections you mentioned add up as "Traveller is not munchkin-friendly",
I will avoid making that charge. In fact, I will only respond in detail
to Points #2 and #4 (in a minute).
My question is: What solutions do you suggest?
Before you answer, note that, by bouncing some dice, any referee can
generate any number of star systems, with whatever overall setting
he/she/it desires. The mechanics for this are covered in Book 3 and 6
for CT, and on pages 129-135 in the basic T4 rulebook (addrsssing
objection #3). Further, any random character generation system can
easily be used in a non-random fashion, with whatever modifications the
referee desires (this addresses objections #1 and #2).
Note that the Traveller character generation system has a couple of
advantages:
1. Characters tend to start off with more useful skills than a callow
youth in an FRPG would have.
2. Traveller character generation provides a framework around which to
build a character. As a player works through the character generation
procedures, he/she/it gains some hints about who this character is, and
how to play him/her/it.
Concerning objection #4 (gearheadedness), I have a couple of questions:
1. What is _bad_ about allowing players to design equipment for a game,
in such a manner that said equipment is consistent with the game
setting?
2. Given access to the Internet, how difficult is it for a referee to
find starship designs to use in a campaign? Heck, those of us who _are_
gearheads are more than willing to share the fruits of our labor (see
the Traveller Gearhead Ring for details).
3. As another poster mentioned, one of the complaints about Alternity
is that it doesn't include rules for capital ship design (I found Silent
Death's lack of well-defined fighter design rules similarly annoying).
Why _shouldn't_ Traveller address these issues?
Overall, though, I'd like to point out that I learned that, at least in
the US Army, after-action reviews are intended to fix problems, rather
than to vent gripes. I therefore again ask you this question:
What recommendations do _you_ have to correct the deficiencies you
mentioned in Traveller?
BTW, here's the Traveller Gearhead Ring URL:
http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=travgearhead;list
Note that AuricTech Shipyards is a member.... ;-)
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 01:13:39 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
- --- "Douglas E. Berry"
wrote:
> At 07:58 PM 3/7/2000 -0700, you wrote:
> Oh, bullshit. You obviously haven't played RPGs for
> that long. Attempting
> to foist off a new edition every few years would
> kill your fan base quickly.
You mean as in Shadowrun,where they succesfully adapt
every few years?(For example,the latest edition
includes nanotech.).
This is why it consistently
> rates high in "Best of"
> polls.
You mean like the one presented here on the list
recently?
Probably.
> >> Sounds like you want a fashionable trendy game
> >>
> >>The
> Mr. Hamilton, I have no idea whatsoever what you are
> trying to accomplish
> here. The mass conversion of Traveller players?
Yes,I'm a secret agent of T$R.
Do
> you expect your poorly
> formatted, spelled and grammatically incorrect prose
> to have us weeping for
> redemption?
Well,it makes sense that you put style over
substance.It obviously suits you.
Sorry. You have failed to make much of a
> case, and in the face
> of even polite responses, have turned immediately to
> personal insults.
>
> Go way, and don't bother us grownups.
Grown-ups,child,don't get angry when somebody
criticize their favorite game.Kid's and teenies do
that.
I find it fascinating when people get angry for
essentially harmless criticism of unimportant things
like sports or games,and desperatly trying to find
some hidden agenda behind it.Very amusing.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 04:17:59 EST
From: TDRandall@aol.com
Subject: Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
Douglas Berry had responded
>>There are many, many people who do not accept the >?>>notion of an afterlife.
Absolutely right, Douglas, and I understand the reasons for prolonging life if that is one's expectation.
I was simply trying to give an opposite response to the religious response in the article of the people who seemingly wanted to rush themselves off to what their perceived afterlife and make sure everyone else plays by the same rules too.
Tony
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 01:27:24 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
>From: "Douglas E. Berry"
>Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
...
>Oh, bullshit. You obviously haven't played RPGs for that long. Attempting
>to foist off a new edition every few years would kill your fan base quickly.
You've obviously failed to apply the appropriate Dilbertism to the
RPG industry; segment your market! - specifically, make sure that you
get control of the dumber consumers who will buy further editions even
if it's necessary solely to fix lousy rules. It works for GW, FASA, the
WoD games, & Palladium - I wonder if IG would have tried this next? :>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 01:27:34 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
>From: "James W. Lindsay"
>Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
>
>troll...
Or maybe just ignorant/stupid. Do you think he's an Alternity
or a Rifts -type person?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 01:25:54 -0800
From: sneadj@mindspring.com
Subject: Warbots
shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>For that matter, you can build EMP "mines" that could kill a
>robot, but wouldn't injure a person.
EMP sheilding isn't *that* difficult.
>Traveller has no "stunners". There is no weapon you can equip the
>robots with that is 100% non-lethal. *Any* weapon capable of
>stopping an enraged adult human will *kill* a child or weakened
>human.
>Tranq darts? The "sure stop" dose for that adrenalin charged adult
>will be lethal if it hits a child.
Actually, MT and TNE both have completely safe, totally non-lethal
tranq darts. From the MT, Player's Manual pp. 94-95, dosage
controlled non-lethal agents:
"Non-lethal agents consist of two types: dose-controlled (available
at tech code Avg Stellar +) and standard. With dose controlled
agents, the damage points accumulate once the unconsciousness
level is reached; any further tranq damage beyond the unconscious
level is ignored. With standard agents, the tranq damage is
temporary, but it can go beyond the unconscious level. If the death
level is reached, the character or animal dies from an overdose of
tranq."
There are even bursting tranq rounds which have a danger space of
1.5 meters (everything in this area is hit with dosage controlled
tranq pellets). I'd give the robots a gauss rifle which can fire regular
rounds or tranq rounds, or maybe something which fired burst tranq
rounds and a laser rifle.
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 01:41:31 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: warbots
>From: sneadj@mindspring.com
...
>Each robot could be made for around 25,000 Cr. For 55,000 Cr
>you could even allow them to have High Data Limited/Basic
>command if their Master-slave link was jammed.
The Zho warbot in B:8 is KCr 158 and is hardly luxuriously equipped -
can you detail your KCr 25 design, please?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 01:41:53 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Using no ground troops
>From: sneadj@mindspring.com
...
>Very true, I really don't see much difference between the warbots
>and troops except that:
>
>1) The warbots are much harder to ambush, since they never
>sleep, and would hover at least 5-10 m off the ground.
If you want to discuss warbot armies for ground combat and clearing
cities instead of robot military police for the occupation administration
why didn't you just say so at the outset?
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 01:42:00 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
>From: john hamilton
>Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
...
>EVERYTHING CAN AND MUST KEEP UP WITH SCIENCE.AND IF
>YOU PRINT DIFFERENT EDITIONS EVERY FEW YEARS,NORMALY
>THAT ISN'T A PROBLEM....
Define "science", please - I know people who go into fits of
laughter at the "popular" suggestion that nanotech is hard science; its
not much more likely than some peoples beliefs in magic, faith healing,
or papal infallibility.
...
>> Sounds like you want a fashionable trendy game
>
>The main argument of snobs.
Deal with it :>
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 04:15:11 -0500
From: "Chauncey Smith"
Subject: Re: Top 4 reasons for Traveller failure...
- -----Original Message-----
From: The Roc
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 1:01 AM
Subject: Re: Top 4 reasons for Traveller failure...
>
>Not really, I don't see that a failed company = failed game. GDW went bust
>because of many reasons, not because of Traveller? Only one system failed
>and it still has a damn strong player base. TSR with AD&D/D&D almost went
>by way of GDW, would someone care to honestly say that those (though not
>most liked) games are failures? What would have happened to GDW and
>Traveller had WotC been around then and showing interest in GDW??? *sigh*
>
>-- The Roc
>
WotC showed no interest in AD&D/D&D and TSR. It wanted a thing called the
intercellular property that it created. The fact that things like
DragonLance and Forgotten Realms are almost house whole names is what they
wanted. Imagine the Dragonlance edition of Magic the Gathering cards. Guess
what it can be done royalty free now. and sell tons. Or The planes of Magic
The Gathering in D&D terms.
WotC was thinking lunch boxes and not GAME. Also WotC was around then. check
out challenge 75 with the origin award announce ments" TNE won the origin's
award as best RPG of the year. and brilliant lances came in second to a CARD
GAME " guess what the name of the card game was?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 01:58:28 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
>Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
...
>I've always thought that one reason the ZS collapsed so quickly was
>that the Vilani overlords were spread *very* thinly throughout the
>empire. There really were lots of worlds with a literal handfuls of
>people working a few mines or growing a cash crop, and many more
>with a handful of Vilani overseeing large low tech native
>populations. Given that situation, the Terrans once they broke
>though the ZS border fleets simply rolled across the stars.
This is the one explanation that I'm most comfortable with so far,
though usually with the comment that the ZS finally giving up to the
Terrans may really have been a provision for ensuring that _someone_
would still rule, rather than all of the subject races forming their
own squabbling pocket empires.
Sadly, while the Solomani had the fleet strength that the ZS may not
have, they lacked the skill to rule...
Steven Hudson (who wouldn't post this if SolSec existed :> )
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 01:58:34 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Traveller = One Formula?
>Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 01:28:01 GMT
>From: "Boris Cibic"
>Subject: RE: Top 4 reasons for Traveller failure
>
>Well...before I get flamed...let us agree that the gentleman who posted this
>does have a point. Traveller has not managed to recruit larger numbers of
>players because of its stiff adherence to one formula for over 23 years.
Just for the record, what is that one formula? I could of sworn that I
largely ignored TNE because it was so dissimilar to the other editions,
but I've been mistaken before...
OTOH, even if only CT & MT (& T4?) adhered to "the one formula", was that
formula the "Traveller as mercs/terrorists/cops", "Traveller as merchants
and accountants in space", "Traveller as US P.I.'s in Space", "Traveller as
surrogate for ST:TOS, cunningly disguised as Scouts exploring" version? I
may have been mistaken in considering these to be different :)
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 02:12:49 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
>You mean as in Shadowrun,where they succesfully adapt
>every few years?(For example,the latest edition
>includes nanotech.).
Personally I feel this is a bad example, nanotech is a pretty easy fit with
Shadowrun. Such things aren't as easy of a fit with Traveller. The way I
see it there couple of good reasons why you don't this stuff in Traveller.
1. Serious public opinion against such things, such as the "Butler Jihad"
in Dune (I think that was the name of the Anti-Computer Jihad). Or simple
Tradition, maybe even Vilani influence.
2. It's there, but it's taken for granted.
Personally I like #1
Oh, and there are Canon examples of some of the kinds of things you've
stated are missing. Take the Dolphins for example.
>Yes,I'm a secret agent of T$R.
Actually I suspect you're a troll.
>>Sorry. You have failed to make much of a
>> case, and in the face
>> of even polite responses, have turned immediately to
>> personal insults.
>>
>> Go way, and don't bother us grownups.
>
>Grown-ups,child,don't get angry when somebody
>criticize their favorite game.Kid's and teenies do
>that.
>
>I find it fascinating when people get angry for
>essentially harmless criticism of unimportant things
>like sports or games,and desperatly trying to find
>some hidden agenda behind it.Very amusing.
Perhaps the problem is that you're hard to understand and are coming across
as a troll. I'm willing to consider *some* of the formatting problems are
the result of how you are posting your messages. I'm guessing you're
posting via a Yahoo web interface. However, your writing style and lack of
anything resembling proper punctuation does say a lot.
Furthermore your generally caustic attitude towards people that disagree
with you when you're basically bashing their hobby is rather grating.
Especially considering the overall civility these same people as a whole
have shown in their replies to you.
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 03:07:58 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Re: Oh My GOD! They Killed Kenny! YOU BASTARDS!
At 00:51 08.03.00, you wrote:
> >I wonder how to say "Oh My GOD! They Killed Kenny! YOU BASTARDS!" in...
> >Oh meu deus, mataram Kenny! Os bastardos!
>Herregud! De drepte Kenny! BASTARDER!
Oh mein Gott! Sie haben Kenny getoetet! Ihr Bastarde!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 02:33:00 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
- --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote:
> >You mean as in Shadowrun,where they succesfully
> adapt
> >every few years?(For example,the latest edition
> >includes nanotech.).
>
> Personally I feel this is a bad example, nanotech is
> a pretty easy fit with
> Shadowrun. Such things aren't as easy of a fit with
> Traveller. The way I
> see it there couple of good reasons why you don't
> this stuff in Traveller.
To be fair,I must admit that nanotech as presented in
current SF would rather cause problems expecially with
Far Trader settings,which is the most popular setting
currently.
> >I find it fascinating when people get angry for
> >essentially harmless criticism of unimportant
> things
> >like sports or games,and desperatly trying to find
> >some hidden agenda behind it.Very amusing.
>
> Perhaps the problem is that you're hard to
> understand and are coming across
> as a troll. I'm willing to consider *some* of the
> formatting problems are
> the result of how you are posting your messages.
> I'm guessing you're
> posting via a Yahoo web interface. However, your
> writing style and lack of
> anything resembling proper punctuation does say a
> lot.
Normaly I avoid to repeat myself,but:
When somebody has to resort to crticize your style
instead of your content,he more or less admitts that
your right.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 04:43:17 -0600
From: Michael Maley
Subject: Re: "Traveller failed four times"
I've noticed at least locally a lot of younger players who don't play
Traveller because its a bad game never cracked a Traveller
rulebook-won't even look at one of my rulebooks. But the few who haved
dared to try it out have liked Traveller. It also doesn't that (it may
also be a local quirk) gameshops around here won't accept used Traveller
games-so there's another potential group of Traveller players lost.
To the positive I like Traveller's character generation system. One it's
simple. Two, its quick. I can have players generate characters in less
than a half hour (including newbies), leaving that much more time for
playing. It's an interesting universe-and a good GM can make it more
interesting. I like the fact that deviation from 'canon' is not only
acceptable but encouraged. I like the fact you have to deal with
various law levels and government types-keeps you and your players on
their toes. I do like that trading and travelling is becoming important
in the game again-its one of the concepts of the game I liked. Even
pirates in my universe spend a certain amount of time as traders-in fact
the richest pirates in my game have developed ports and gotten more
wealth off port dues and repairs than raiding. My longest Beyond
campaign teamed a Imperial IBIS assasin with an Imperial diplomat
wielding influence in hostile worlds. The TL's make the game
interesting for trading and diplomacy(i.e., the embarrasment of trying
to unload grav farm equipment on a TL3 world because you didn't do your
homework or your library data was faulty).
darkhstarr
Glenn Goffin wrote:
>
> "Traveller failed four times."
>
> I'm usually not one to be a positive-thinking, self-esteem
> improving, boosterism type, but come on, look at the facts.
> Traveller was published in 1977. It's still being published in
> 2000 -- over twenty years later -- and by one of the top game
> companies.
>
> How many other role-playing games published in or around 1977
> are still being published at all?
>
> If Traveller is an example of failure, we should all hope to
> fail so well.
>
> --Glenn
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
> http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2022
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, March 8 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2023
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Why Traveller went down (to Georgia)
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
RE: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000 - Don't blame me for the subject line
Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
RE: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000 - Don't blame me for the subject line
OT: Passing of John Colicos
Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
Re: Why Traveller went down (to Georgia)
Manticore Milleu was TOP 4 etc.
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Wigram AFB (was RE: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000 - Don't blam e me for the subject line )
Your age in Vargr years (Sillyness)
Explosive Bolts, was TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN...
Re: Your age in Vargr years (Sillyness)
Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
Re: Traveller = One Formula?
Failure company=failed game?
RE: Mercenaries
Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
RE: warbots
Soldiers
Re: Failure company=failed game?
One Traveller=One Formula...do something about it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 21:50:02 +1000
From: dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au
Subject: Why Traveller went down (to Georgia)
>>>
Define "science", please - I know people who go into fits of
laughter at the "popular" suggestion that nanotech is hard science; its
not much more likely than some peoples beliefs in magic, faith healing,
or papal infallibility.
<<<
Oh Come on, there is a sound basis for papal infallibility!
Ok, gearhead question: Why isnt a BuckyBall hull ship cannon?
Darryl
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 06:12:22 -0500
From: "Steve Daniels"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
- -----Original Message-----
From: john hamilton
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 4:16 AM
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
>You mean as in Shadowrun,where they succesfully adapt
>every few years?(For example,the latest edition
>includes nanotech.).
And FASA went bankrupt.
>Yes,I'm a secret agent of T$R.
They went bankrupt too and were bought up
by the Magic: CCG people (Wizards of the Coaster).
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 21:52:40 +1000
From: "Scout Harris"
Subject: RE: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000 - Don't blame me for the subject line
- --
On Wed, 8 Mar 2000 21:33:08 Frank G. Pitt wrote:
>That's the problem with allowing the unemployed to vote, they'll always vote
>for the party that promises to take from the rich and give to the 'poor',
>and spend more on benefits for those that don't produce.
Actually, having a pool of unemployed people is a good thing for the economy. It means that there are quick replacements for vacancies. Also the fact that there is someone out there waiting for someones job means that people tend to work a bit harder for a bit less, keeping wages lower and productivity higher, which can only be good for the economy.
But to be effective the pool has to be kept at manageable levels. I think I have heard figures like 5% being bandied about.
Not to mention the social responsibilty all us working types have to those less fortunate than us. Unemployed people deserve quality of life, not just mere subsistance.
ob trav: However, this has got me thinking about creating a world with a democracy where the number of votes you have is determined by how much you earn. However, your earnings must be taxable income.
Welfare exists, but you lose your vote for the number of years that you are on welfare.
Which means that in a twisted way some of the rich autocrats see advantage in having a generous welfare system to encourage less people to vote, thearby giving them a greater controlling vote......... this idea develops as I write it.... I'll get back to the list if it goes somewhere!
Scout
Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 12:54:10 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
"Moody, Danny M." wrote:
> It wasn't a flame, and wasn't meant to be - I was being curious. It
> seemed to me inconsistent that you would state things that you are
> very aware could be perceived as offensive, yet deride responses on
> the list that might also be perceived as offensive.
I hope I clarified my reasons with my last post. Perhaps I should have
clarified my reasons better in the first post I made on this subject...
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
(hopefully dropping out of this thread)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 04:02:29 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: RE: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000 - Don't blame me for the subject line
- --- Scout Harris <
> ob trav: However, this has got me thinking about
> creating a world with a democracy where the number
> of votes you have is determined by how much you
> earn. However, your earnings must be taxable income.
This system actually existed in Germany until 1918.
It had the effect that one tycoon's vote had the same
impact on the result as all other votes in his
district.
> Welfare exists, but you lose your vote for the
> number of years that you are on welfare.
> Which means that in a twisted way some of the rich
> autocrats see advantage in having a generous welfare
> system to encourage less people to vote, thearby
> giving them a greater controlling vote......... this
> idea develops as I write it.... I'll get back to the
> list if it goes somewhere!
>
> Scout
>
>
> Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a
> free Eudora Web-Mail account at
> http://www.eudoramail.com
>
__________________________________________________
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 07:07:13 -0500
From: "Josh W. Spencer"
Subject: OT: Passing of John Colicos
AN ACTING LEGEND IS GONE:
John Colicos, who played Baltar on Battlestar Galactica, passed away on
Monday, March 6, 2000 in Toronto after suffering a series of heart attacks.
He was 71 years old.
His career spanned the Shakespearean stage (as King Lear at age 22) as well
as numerous roles in films and television. As Kor, he defined the Klingons
in the Star Trek episode "Errand of Mercy". As Baltar on Battlestar
Galactica, he brought to life a villain who sold out the entire human race
for his own lust for power. He also appeared in numerous films during his
career, among them "Anne of a Thousand Days" (1970), "Scorpio" (1973) and
"The Postman Always Rings Twice" (1981). He also appeared as Mikkos
Cassadine in the "General Hospital" soap opera in the early 1980s. Most
recently, he played the "Competitors' CEO" in a series of TV commercials for
America's Best, an eyewear company.
He is survived by his wife Mona, and two sons, Nicholas and Edmund.
WE WILL MISS YOU JOHN. WELL DONE!
For those Science Fiction fans who are interested in paying their respects,
BattlestarGalactica.com will be shortly posting a special bulletin board
where people can sign their name. This list will be delivered to the Colicos
family in Toronto shortly afterward.
- --
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)
Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA
Ring Master, The Battlestar Galactica Web Ring
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 12:20:15 +0000
From: Phil Kitching
Subject: Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
Walter Smith wrote:
>I wonder how much the death-supporting ethicists would complain if they
>were failing in a nursing home, knowing that each breath could be their
>last gasp, and some hotshot scientist walked in and offered them a vial of
>his latest eternal youth serum discovery.
>
>I agree, who put these ethicists in charge of deciding what is an
>appropriate lifespan?
>
>Quoting Greek myths as if it proved some kind of point...what, am I
>supposed to start propitiating Hera and Zeus now?
Hi Walt,
when you've got the "having sex with a maiden whilst disguised as a swan"
thing sorted out, could you notify the list please?
;-)
(of course, I might be misremembering the swan bit.)
Phil Kitching
- --
http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
"Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 12:48:53 +0000
From: Phil Kitching
Subject: Re: Why Traveller went down (to Georgia)
dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au wrote:
>>>>
> Define "science", please - I know people who go into fits of
>laughter at the "popular" suggestion that nanotech is hard science; its
>not much more likely than some peoples beliefs in magic, faith healing,
>or papal infallibility.
><<<
>
>Oh Come on, there is a sound basis for papal infallibility!
>
>Ok, gearhead question: Why isnt a BuckyBall hull ship cannon?
Because crystaliron uses the same principle but is more suitable
due to the ductility of the bonding and the 3D structure of the
lattice?
The principle being that all the atoms in the hull are joined
by strong covalent/ionic/metallic* and there are no interlocking
crystals or wrapped up long chain molecules.
* or whatever that "sea of free electrons" in a metal is called.
Phil Kitching
- --
http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
"Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 09:02:25 -0400
From: Les_Howie@keane.com
Subject: Manticore Milleu was TOP 4 etc.
On 7 Mar 00, at 13:57, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> No dictators in modern SF? Robert Pierre of the Committee for Public
> Safety in the David Weber's "Honor Harrington" series is one. Very nasty
> piece of work, too.
Actually, here's a good example of traveller flexibility. To put together the
Honor Harrington milleu (for your personal; use, of course) all you have to do
is:
1. Produce rules for impellers, warashovsky sails, etc for FF&S -- not a
re-write, theye are just new components.
2. Likewise in FF&S some tweaks to laser design, missile pods (actually, those
should be fine in regular traveller) etc. Drop some rules (PAWS, Mesons)
3. Heavy mods to ship combat rules, but Mayday 4.1 should be a good starting
point. Mostly its a scale change.
4. New hyperspace travel rules, but there are enough details in Webers books
5. Tweak the mustering out side of character design, perhaps add some character
types
6. Some adjustments to trade. We don't seem to see many small traders in
Weber's books, but that may just be a matter of focus.
Not exactly an overnight project, but easy enough as such things go, and I am
confident that the framework of the traveller rules could handle it.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 08:24:19 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
In a message dated 3/7/00 5:07:35 PM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
> Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
>
I think this was supposed to be in the FAQ under the Trollers section.....
As it seems to occur every couple of years now.
Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 09:05:57 -0500
From: "Smith, Walter"
Subject: Wigram AFB (was RE: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000 - Don't blam e me for the subject line )
Frank G. Pitt wrote:
>> On Behalf Of Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au
>> You're not wrong there. I'm just back from a trip to New Zealand,
>> and I got a shock when I went to visit Wigram AFB (on the south
>>island),
>> their oldest airbase.
>>
>> It's being sold off as a housing estate.
>
>Which is a direct insult to Henry Wigram and his family, BTW.
I'm put in mind of an American general's comment (Patton?) that of
all people, no one longs for peace more than the honorable soldier.
If it is true that the soldiery of NZ and her allies have done their
jobs so well that this particular sword *can* be safely beaten into a
plowshare, then IMO it is the very opposite of an insult that it will
be turned into a place where people raise children instead of man the
walls.
Of course, if it is still needed as a sword, never mind.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 06:12:07 PST
From: "will richards"
Subject: Your age in Vargr years (Sillyness)
Subject: Your Age in K'Kree...
>>To convert your name to it's hiver equivilent:
>>Step 1: write down your first name add a space, add your middle name, add
>>a
>>space and then add your last name.
>>If you don't belive me then you have not been manipulated by the Hivers
>>enough.
>LOL!! While we're at it, let do our ages in K'Kree!!
>Step 1: Write down your age.
>Step 2: Repeat after me: Clomp, clomp, clomp... :^)
to get your Vargr age (a secret Anchient formula)
Step1: write down your age.
Step2: divide by 7 to convert to dog years
step3: multiply by 4 to account for Yskodray's (sp) tampering
The result is your age in Vargr years.
example
Step 1: 33
Step 2: 4.71
Step 3: 18.86
Hey! I'm a teenager again!
Wow Vargr remain teenagers for about 32 Human years. No wonder they are
angst ridden, that and the flees....
Will
______________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 22:28:01 -0800
From: "Antony Farrell"
Subject: Explosive Bolts, was TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN...
>
>
> > Waitaminnit...there are problems with Traveller?
> >
> > Two years I been on this mailing list, and none of you guys saw fit to
> > let me in on this? Thanks a bunch, guys. I made WEB PAGES, dammit!!
> > And now I find out I've been wasting my time on a flawed product! Quit
> > laughing over there! Geez, I feel like such an IDIOT! If it hadn't been
> for John
> > Hamilton here, I might never have known. Thanks John, you're a real
> > lifesaver. What game should I be playing instead?
> >
> > Great, now what am I going to do with this closet full of good to
> near-mint,
> > out of print, hard to find Traveller supplements?
> >
> > Walt Smith
> >
>
> Aww look mate, ya just gonna have ta throw em away? Look, tell
> ya what I'll
> do for ya, save ya cloggin' up ya bins me old china, if you pay postage to
> Queensland, Australia, I'll take em off ya hands for free... how's that
> sound cobber? Can't do fairer than that... ;)
>
> -- The Roc
>
Nah send them to Western Australia, you can use the La Grange Starport,
though we're a little bit behind in getting it back in commission. (Someone
has misplaced the starport beacon.
And for those who like gearheading, how many explosive bolts hold an airlock
door in place? I'd like to know as this seems to have become a standard way
of boarding ships. Press the little button marked danger explosive bolts
then take cover.
Antony Farrell
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 10:02:09 -0500
From: "Sword-Worlder"
Subject: Re: Your age in Vargr years (Sillyness)
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "will richards"
> Wow Vargr remain teenagers for about 32 Human years. No wonder they are
> angst ridden, that and the flees....
Um, I think that's backward. It means that Vargr teenagers are
"thirty-something"... talk about angst! But at least a middle-aged Woody
Allen Vargr wouldn't get a lot of questions about having a teenaged bride.
Um, so what so Vargr call their wives? Oh...
One more question: is there a high fashion in flea collars among Vargr, or
do they hide their "personal hygeine" items? Would it be embarrassing for a
Vargr to have his luggage searched and a botle of flea bath exposed?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Colin Michael, WebDev
www.downport.com
The Traveller Domain
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 00:03:22 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
In mail you write:
> I guess it's just a matter of perspective. When already faced with eternity
> in heaven, what's the big deal with perhaps a (couple?) hundred more years
> here?
>
> My fear would be the continued, even increased, separation of "have"s and
> "have-not"s. I mean, whoever is in control (whether you think of that as
> individuals or as a generation as a whole) is going to make sure to STAY in
> control for a long long time!
> I suppose some may think me paranoid, but can't you forsee ruling parties
> that have held office for 100+ years, while their constituencies keep living
> 70ish years (or less if things REALLY divide)?
Try to find the collected works of Jonathon Swift (the guy who wrote
Gulliver's Travels). One of his other stories shows that folks have
worried about this for a long time ... "The Struldbrugs".
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 09:03:07 -0600
From: Rob Eaglestone
Subject: Re: Traveller = One Formula?
Steven Hudson wrote:
>
> >Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 01:28:01 GMT
> >From: "Boris Cibic"
> >Subject: RE: Top 4 reasons for Traveller failure
> >
> >Well...before I get flamed...let us agree that the gentleman who posted this
> >does have a point. Traveller has not managed to recruit larger numbers of
> >players because of its stiff adherence to one formula for over 23 years.
>
> Just for the record, what is that one formula? I could of sworn that I
> largely ignored TNE because it was so dissimilar to the other editions,
> but I've been mistaken before...
>
> OTOH, even if only CT & MT (& T4?) adhered to "the one formula", was that
> formula the "Traveller as mercs/terrorists/cops", "Traveller as merchants
> and accountants in space", "Traveller as US P.I.'s in Space", "Traveller as
> surrogate for ST:TOS, cunningly disguised as Scouts exploring" version? I
> may have been mistaken in considering these to be different :)
>
> Steven Hudson
And, "Traveller as hi-tech Raiders of the Lost Ark",
"Traveller as surrogate [oops, double entendre] for Aliens", and
"Traveller as surrogate for Babylon 5" ...
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 15:25:04 GMT
From: "Boris Cibic"
Subject: Failure company=failed game?
Roc wrote:
...let us agree that the gentleman who postedthis> does have a point.
Not really, I don't see that a failed company = failed game. GDW went bust
because of many reasons, not because of Traveller?
I did not make the assertion of failed company = failed game...I am well
aware of some of the reasons why GDW kicked the bucket. But the fact is
until G:T. Traveller has failed to win over significant new market share.
This is due to decline in popularity of RPGs, but, also due a lack lustre
advertizing campaign. And an inability to keep up with developments in
popular culture...Most RPGs change with time...Traveller has changed but
continues. The Traveller line, while the most popular was also the sellable
because of its reputation of being a solid presence in the market and backed
up with 100s of supplements (ok not 100s).
When T4 hit the Canadian market hardly anyone knew about it and when the
game system was just the LLBs all over again...gamers were naturally
disappointed.
G:T had promo posters well ahead of the release, yet, no one had informed
the retail outlets when to expect a release. Do we see a pattern here.
Traveller in whatever its incarnation has to inspire, more first time
buyers. For that to work requires, a major overall of the rules, more and
impressive art, a narrative format, and cannon to be kept in the background
not the foreground. This why I think that G:T is more successful, it brings
the Traveller universe (with its volumous Library Data) to gamer not the
gamer to try out Traveller.
Its fine and dandy that all of us on the TML, began our Traveller
experience by creating vast concepts around seemingly charged words such as
Imperium, worlds, jump drive. We already had a mental universe constructed
for us fed by the Space program and the New wave of Science Fiction cinema
of 1970s. The next generation, then had MT which sort of provided a
template but other than DGP, there was no support. If one thinks about CT,
I can hear the companies like FASA, Parnioa Press, JTAS, Judges Guild, etc.
places which took those LLB by the throat and made them come alive.
Only one system failed
and it still has a damn strong player base.
Look around you. Does it? I am not talking about the TML. Has Traveller
entered the popular consciousness? When one talks about a RPG, how many
times have one said: "well...like, Dungeons & Dragons..." If Traveller is
to survive, gamers when they think of SFRPG should say: "well...it is like
Traveller but worse..." Clearly we have a longer way to go. G:T helped us
expand into those who are attracted by SJG. We need to expand further which
means taking the game into new directions.
I favour the approach which was sometimes opted by DGP (more in their
promises of new products but also in their house journals) and recently
resurected by BITS that is: Look at all that empty space out there, let's
fill it in with wonder, adventure, excitement, enigmas.
The approach that is destructive, I find is the approach that says: Look
at all that empty space...what a minute, it is not empty is patrolled by the
Imperial Navy.
My point being we need to resurect the frontier and balance it out with
the core. Milieu 0 did that for me, but one should have multiple milieus in
which at various points the frontier is expanding. That was the problem
with MT, it made everything look settled...remember the Chamax Hoarde...the
settlement was in the asteriod belt...they knew nothing about the habitable
world in the system... The merger of the frontier and the core, is what
science fiction is all about.
TSR with AD&D/D&D almost went
by way of GDW, would someone care to honestly say that those (though not
most liked) games are failures? What would have happened to GDW and
Traveller had WotC been around then and showing interest in GDW???
God spare us from that fate. I agree the retail muscle of WotC is
impressive and that Matel will be able to market the game far. But, I
stopped playing AD&D at the age of 16. By making part of the Matel empire,
I think they will be trying to market to 5-12 yr old set. I have had enough
experiences, of 10yr olds crying when their character failed the survivial
rolls, thank you very much. AD&D may yet die, we need to see the 3rd
edition, as I never bought into the 2nd as T$R just pissed me off with their
shoddy products and lousy art (and the final straw came when they booted out
Gary). TNE & T4 for all their faults did try to keep continuity...I think
if you let a corporate bememouth control you...the game loses it creativity
and its ability to take risks...look at Pagan Publishing vs Chaosium...look
at DGP vs GDW. Yes, one risks the uncontrolled release of innovation, but
the marketplace (read: informed consumers) will ultimately decide on
quality over quantity.
______________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 10:30:28 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: RE: Mercenaries
Robert Snyder writes:
>There has been a lot of discussion regarding mercenaries
>Some of the dollars associated with these types of contracts seem to
>be very high. Reportedly, EO was paid 100+ million USD for its
>efforts in Sierra Leone.
Would you happen to know what services EO rendered for that
(reported) sum? Number of personel? Equipment? Duration?
Duties/responsibilities? Just curious.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 10:27:00 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
Phil Kitching wrote:
>when you've got the "having sex with a maiden whilst disguised as a swan"
>thing sorted out, could you notify the list please?
>
>;-)
>
>(of course, I might be misremembering the swan bit.)
Nope, quite accurate.
Zeus is apparently having problems with his dating techniques, though.
http://www.theonion.com/onion3514/todays_women.html
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 10:46:17 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: RE: warbots
Anthony Jackson write:
>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2016
Tsk, tsk.
>Master-slave units are not viable unless every warbot has a meson comm.
>Jamming is much too easy.
This should often be a problem. Has anyone come up with some
ideas to get around jamming (other than meson comm)?
>> 4) Warbots never harm of kill civilians because they have a bad
>> day, and they never randomly destroy or steal property.
>They may, however, make stupid mistakes, depending on their programming.
And human troops never do that... ;)
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 10:49:01 -0500
From: "Chris Dixon"
Subject: Soldiers
>Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 17:32:24 -0800 (PST)
>From: Ray Wiberg
>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2016
>Or that elite unit of happy Belgian paratroopers, who roasted folks on
>fires and urinated on them...Somalia was an eyeopener for concerning UN
>forces.
>A soldier is a soldier...
>Ray
As a former US Marine who proudly served in Desert storm I take great
umbrage at the comparison between so called "soldiers" who burn
non-combatants alive and urinate on their smouldering bodies and the
"professional" soldiers that serve with dignity and honor in many
nations throughout the world.
A group of armed thugs are not necessarily soldiers, no matter who's
flag they happen to be wearing.
- - Chris
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 07:47:50
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Failure company=failed game?
At 03:25 PM 3/8/2000 GMT, you wrote:
>I did not make the assertion of failed company = failed game...I am well
>aware of some of the reasons why GDW kicked the bucket. But the fact is
>until G:T. Traveller has failed to win over significant new market share.
Once again, sorry. CT was a major force in the industry in terms of
popularity and shelf space for many years.
I have never met a gamer who wasn't at least aware of Traveller, and most
of them had played it at least once or twice.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 15:54:48 GMT
From: "Boris Cibic"
Subject: One Traveller=One Formula...do something about it
Simply put the Traveller rules...the one formula resides in the character
generation scheme, world generation, and animal encounters. Everything
falls back to dice... I liked the idea that DGP came up with at the end of
their Traveller line... emphasize role playing not roll playing. The dice
and tables ought to be there for when needed. When I refereed, I would
often indicate with code words or keywords to indicate dice rolls and allow
the players to interpet their rolls into their role. If they failed they
ought to incorporate this into the narrative. Made for better playing then
endless consulting of tables and charts.
As an evolution from wargames, I understand Traveller's preoccupation
with dice and maps. But, as it changes from edition to edition, this
remains a constant. I would agree that TNE was moving away from that but
the background alienated many players. Which is why I advocate a
multi-milieu background for Traveller...something G:T is doing by almost
default by taking us back to the CT milieu.
Repeating the old, makes Traveller into a religion with its mantras and
excludes the new from learning unless accompanyed by a seasoned convert. A
NARRATIVE format is ONE of the things will bring new players as they will
not be overwhelmed by the charts and tables. The remarkable Starter
Traveller (where I first cut my teeth) actually had it as a separate book.
I don't think we need to go that far again but, streamlining the charts and
tables into easy formats like flowcharts, as in the case of MT, would make
the game more assessable. Again, GREAT ARTWORK, will cause players to come
along, as for reputation Traveller already has that but we on the TML ought
to do more.
What we ought to do on the TML, is prepare the way for any new edition of
Traveller by compiling what really works well and send it off to Marc. We
have to develop a critical eye and make concrete proposals. Otherwise,
Traveller will continue to gain and lose before a long slow death. A
prospect which which causes despair akin to I think all of us felt when GDW
went under.
______________________________________________________
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------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2023
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, March 8 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2024
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Psychological Effects of an Invasion (was: no ground troops)
Re: The Universal Bar Profile, as pdf
Re: warbots
RE: warbots
Re: Why Traveller went down (to Georgia)
Re: Failure company=failed game?
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2023
Re: Your age in Vargr years (Sillyness)
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
FYI: GT Solomani Rim Book in Playtest
Re: Psychological Effects of an Invasion (was: no ground troops)
Re: Failure company=failed game?
Re: Illumniati?(was: Re: Interstellar Democracies in YTU)
Re: What if . . .
Vargr and Aslan expansion(was:Re: The low jump number question)
All-powerful anagathics(was:Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 17:04:18 +0100
From: "Carl Roger Nilsen"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Just one quick note on the "successful games" discussion.
Call of Cthulhu is, IMHO, one of the rpgs that has had a long lifetime.
And GURPS.
Carl Roger Nilsen
Vilani: Karukane Shiraagineraager
Zhodani: Irezhrezr Ne'sthlen
Hiver: Carl Roger Nilsen
"Never overlook something that seems to be simple"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 10:10:32 -0600
From: Bill Dunn
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Wow, lots of thin skins on this list lately. For what it's worth, I didn't
see the original post as a troll at all. I disagree with the post that there
are 4 failed editions of Traveller. I would consider that there are 2,
however.
There's been plenty of talk about T4 being a failure so I'd like to put in
my $.02 about TNE being a failure. Granted GDW went down for various reasons
not related to the performance of one game and also granted that any
significant change to a system is going to lose a certain percentage of
grognards who prefer the old mechanics/setting/whatever. The success of the
game has to be measured in how well it wins over old players and brings in
new blood. For TNE, at least in this area (southern Wisconsin), I saw
nothing that suggested success and more signs that signaled failure.
The direction TNE went lost the support of Digest Group Publications who, as
I saw it, did more for the expansion of MT than GDW did. The third-party
support pool was suddenly gone.
The anecdotal evidence around here about why TNE never took off among
players includes a few things: 1) setting - the 3rd Imperium offered lots
more varied types of scenarios than the 'imperialism in the frontier'
setting of non-Regency TNE, 2) the space opera feel of Traveller was lost
with too much emphasis on science as we currently understand it rather than
science as it could be understood circa 5000 CE, 3) the game, already highly
militarized, became even more so in both mechanics and style, turning off a
lot of players.
Of course, fierce competition for game-buying dollars from Vampire and Magic
sure didn't help things any. Magic's impact on the game market was
ridiculous. What do you think caused TSR's cashflow problems and bankruptcy?
Hopefully, G:T will be able to attract new players into that setting though
the GURPS crowd and reinject the vitality that Traveller had in the early
80s (the Golden Age of Role-Playing?).
That's what I have to contribute to this discussion. You might be able to
draw me out with more. Just ply me with chocolate and beer...
Bill Dunn
bdunn@epicsystems.com
"We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters
will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks
to the internet, we know this is not true." --anonymous
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 07:53:52
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
At 12:40 AM 3/8/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>Do you really think I would be on this mailing list if
>I wouldn't like Traveller?
Sure. It doesn't cost any money, takes one email and can be instantly
rescinded.
>Unless,of course,you think I'm a agent provocateur
>from T$R ( the best conspiracy theories are the ones
>about unimportant things.................)
TSR doesn't exist anymore. It has been absorbed by WotC.
>Still,that doesn't mean T is perfect,and it's
>fascinating how many people take crticism to their
>little,pure hearts.............
Oh give it up. You fired, we returned fire, and if all you can do is make
snide little comments like that one I suggest you run down your colors.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 08:11:26
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
At 01:13 AM 3/8/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>--- "Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
>> At 07:58 PM 3/7/2000 -0700, you wrote:
>
>> Oh, bullshit. You obviously haven't played RPGs for that long.
>>Attempting to foist off a new edition every few years would
>> kill your fan base quickly.
>
>You mean as in Shadowrun,where they succesfully adapt
>every few years?(For example,the latest edition
>includes nanotech.).
Shadowrun was first released in 1989. I've played it since the beginning.
They second and third editions were released to fix the notoriously bad
rules, and as a pure cash cow. In a similar period, Traveller released two
editions, updating the setting. I see no real difference.
>This is why it consistently rates high in "Best of" polls.
>
>You mean like the one presented here on the list recently?
>Probably.
No, like Arcane's 50 greatest. Polls put together by people who know the
hobby and the industry.
>> Mr. Hamilton, I have no idea whatsoever what you are trying to accomplish
>> here. The mass conversion of Traveller players?
>
>Yes,I'm a secret agent of T$R.
I'd cash that paycheck quick, as TSR no longer exists as a corporate
entity. Anyway, they don't have a SF-RPG anymore.
>Well,it makes sense that you put style over
>substance.It obviously suits you.
No, I just prefer to be able to read what is written without wincing.
Correct usage of the language isn't "style over substance," it is making
sure that your message can reach your audience. All caps, improper spacing,
atrocious grammar and spelling.. all of these make it difficult to read
your post, and give the impression that you are not serious about what you
are saying. I'm no saint in this, but at least I try.
>>Sorry. You have failed to make much of a case, and in the face
>> of even polite responses, have turned immediately to personal insults.
>>
>> Go way, and don't bother us grownups.
>
>Grown-ups,child,don't get angry when somebody criticize their favorite
>game.Kid's and teenies do that.
My, my, my. If you check the archives, you'll see that we are *very*
critical of the game. Marc Miller gets an earful about the T4 revision
every time he drops in. But, we don't drop to your level of personal
insults and smug superiority. If you have a point, make it. We'll give it
all the consideration it deserves.
>I find it fascinating when people get angry for
>essentially harmless criticism of unimportant things
>like sports or games,and desperatly trying to find
>some hidden agenda behind it.Very amusing.
You are the one claiming a hidden agenda, oh Agent of A Defunct Company.
My agenda? I write for Traveller, and play it. I also have very little
tolerance for trolls. You seem to have come to this list for no other
reason than self-aggrandizement. It's not working.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
TML Great Old One
Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse
Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 08:25:13 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
> >Do you really think I would be on this mailing list
> if
> >I wouldn't like Traveller?
>
> Sure. It doesn't cost any money, takes one email and
> can be instantly
> rescinded.
WELL,AS IT WAS SAID:
The best conspiracy theories are the
> ones
> >about unimportant things.................)
>
> TSR doesn't exist anymore. It has been absorbed by
> WotC.
Who cares?
> >Still,that doesn't mean T is perfect,and it's
> >fascinating how many people take some harmless
crticism to their
> >little,pure hearts.............
>
> Oh give it up. You fired, we returned fire, and if
> all you can do is make
> snide little comments like that one I suggest you
> run down your colors.
Well, irony is of course out of place when someone is
seeing a game as something holy.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 08:35:33
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Psychological Effects of an Invasion (was: no ground troops)
After doing some research on the entire "no ground troops" thread, I've
found that an important factor that has been ignored is the need to be
defeated.
Humans, being primates, have an Alpha/Beta male structure. At the most
basic level, conflicts in the social structure are resolved by combat. The
toughest male takes charge, and has the pick of the best sleeping spots,
mates, etc.
That impulse carries into our modern selves. While we don't duel to the
death over parking spots (except in LA), that urge to be the Alpha male is
there.
There is also the need to be defeated. Until you lose, you still see
yourself as the Alpha. This is why I still had hopes for the 49ers up
until the last day of the season.
So in war, it isn't just the occupation of the land that is needed, you
also have to assert yourself as the Alpha males over the enemy. You have to
demonstrate forcefully that you *are* in charge, and can back that up.
In the 20th Century we learned that this has to be personal. Shelling and
bombing weren't enough. The people on the ground have to see an aggressive
enemy. You have to hurt them. Sad, I know, but true.
In the warbots and orbital scenario, the enemy remains faceless. Deep down,
a good segment of the populace will not be able to accept defeat, because
they never had the chance to fight!
There are many times that this will not apply. A completely outclassed
world will surrender most times, and there are cultures that have managed
to suppress this urge (Gandhi's teachings in India come to mind), but on a
large world that can defend itself, you need to "plant the flag in the
other guy's ass" to use a phrase I heard while in the Army.
Not that for Traveller, this only applies to humans. The Vargr would also
probably follow this model, and the Aslan, but I have no idea how this
would apply to the K'Kree or Hivers.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"Non possum existimare plus quemquem facini"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 17:39:21 +0100
From: Holger Kadlez
Subject: Re: The Universal Bar Profile, as pdf
Hello fellow sophonts,
In oder to dust of my skills in LaTeX,
I created a pdf-file out of Glenn UBP
It doesn't look that well on the screen (by now;
I will have to fix that @ home), but is fine when
printed on a PostScript-printer.
The zip-File is about 43 kB.
Anybody interested ?
For those who are,
please tell me, whether you want letter-format or a4-format.
Good Bye,
Holger 'Paradin' Kadlez
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 09:22:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: warbots
Ian Ferguson writes:
>
> >Master-slave units are not viable unless every warbot has a meson comm.
> >Jamming is much too easy.
>
> This should often be a problem. Has anyone come up with some
> ideas to get around jamming (other than meson comm)?
You give it a proper AI, and to heck with the Shudusham Accords. Or you only
use the warbots for light duty. Jamming isn't the only problem, being a
constant emitter also makes you a wonderfully easy to find target.
>
> >> 4) Warbots never harm of kill civilians because they have a bad
> >> day, and they never randomly destroy or steal property.
> >They may, however, make stupid mistakes, depending on their programming.
>
>
> And human troops never do that... ;)
Oh, humans make stupid mistakes too. There may be differences in frequency,
and there's rather likely to be political differences.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 09:57:13 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: RE: warbots
>From: Ian Ferguson
>Subject: RE: warbots
...
>>Master-slave units are not viable unless every warbot has a meson comm.
>>Jamming is much too easy.
>
> This should often be a problem. Has anyone come up with some
> ideas to get around jamming (other than meson comm)?
Reeling out line worked real well in the Great War :)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 09:58:21 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Why Traveller went down (to Georgia)
>From: dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au
...
>Oh Come on, there is a sound basis for papal infallibility!
But if you're not him, I don't have to believe you :)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 13:04:13 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re: Failure company=failed game?
"Boris Cibic" typed:
>But the fact is
>until G:T, Traveller has failed to win over significant new market share.
>This is due to decline in popularity of RPGs, but, also due a lack lustre
>advertizing campaign.
If the only place you can advertise is in the back pages of your own
products (ie. the ones you are trying to spread the word about) this really
cuts into the effectiveness of classic advertising. Coincident with TNE, the
whole industry suffered a general die-off of magazines. What was left on the
RPG side was basically just Dragon and Dungeon, both house organs, and
Challenge, which circulated to the already-converted (for our Traveller-based
argument). Nothing else had the circulation or broad industry coverage to
make ads worthwhile. Before you start rattling off names, let me: Pyramid was
still clawing its way out of its GURPS-only "Roleplayer" roots; Space Gamer
was a poorly run zombie version of its former (SJG owned) self, and had an
impenetrable agenda of its own; Shadis was still a two-color fan-mag; Duelist
was for card games (M:tG specifically); and White Dwarf had already turned GW
catalog.
Gone were the strong support of the old White Dwarf and Space Gamer, both
broad-coverage RPG mags in their heydays. Also dead was even the perception
that Dragon was a general RPG mag, in whose pages I've seen IN THE PAST YEAR
strong opinions against poluting its pages with off-topic crap like
Alternity, another TSR/WotC product!
So.
What's left?
Advertising via poster and flyer in the game store itself? Maybe. Aside from
informative nature of these ("When's the new ... coming in?"), they don't
seem to have much reach to new players.
Demo play and sponsored events at game stores? Much better, but harder to
pull off with RPGs than with (say) CCGs and miniatures "war" games.
Convention exposure? Sure, but only a small part of the gaming populace goes
to conventions.
Any more ideas?
GC
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 10:28:53 PST
From: "will richards"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2023
One man's Traveller is another man's Horse.
At first I thought John ment Traveller the game but then I figured maybe he
got confused when he heard someone say Traveller went down.
Maybe they really ment Traveller, Gen Robert R. Lee's (CSA)Horse.
Number Four Reason, The horse got shot?
Number Three Reason, The horse Tripped.
Number Two Reason, He was ordered to?
Number one reason, He was being ridden by R.E.Lee as they charged
from the top of the hill to the bottom (Thus explaining why he
went down?).
Ok Ok I'm in a silly mood. but when people attack a source of fun an
entertainment that I Like. I have to combat my inital urge to flame them.
Sure Traveller the game does not sell like it used to but it does sell. Just
look at what it did for SJG.
Besides you missed the number one reason any game has gone "Down"
The market right now supports Card games, and multi player online games.
This has the effect of reducing the number of new RPGer's which it self has
a spiraling affect. just look at the kids playing RPG's today, Not as many
pre and young teens as there were in the 80's and early 90's.
Definetly not the fault of the designers. Definetly not anything about
Traveller itself.
So in truth the Game did not go down it was the market that had the rug
pulled out from under it.
Will
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 11:33:35 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Your age in Vargr years (Sillyness)
will richards wrote:
>
> Subject: Your Age in K'Kree...
>
> >>To convert your name to it's hiver equivilent:
> >>Step 1: write down your first name add a space, add your middle name, add
> >>a
> >>space and then add your last name.
> >>If you don't belive me then you have not been manipulated by the Hivers
> >>enough.
>
> >LOL!! While we're at it, let do our ages in K'Kree!!
>
> >Step 1: Write down your age.
>
> >Step 2: Repeat after me: Clomp, clomp, clomp... :^)
>
> to get your Vargr age (a secret Anchient formula)
> Step1: write down your age.
> Step2: divide by 7 to convert to dog years
Sorry, that's _multiply_ by 7 to get DY (1HY = 7DY)
> step3: multiply by 4 to account for Yskodray's (sp) tampering
> The result is your age in Vargr years.
>
> example
>
> Step 1: 33
> Step 2: 4.71
Step 2(corrected) 231
> Step 3: 18.86
Step 3(corrected) 57.75
>
> Hey! I'm a teenager again!
One ready for early retirement. :-)
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 10:52:48 -0800
From: Russell Bornschlegel
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Steve Daniels wrote:
> Legate Legion wrote:
>
> > Actually, I have found that most gamers like the Traveller Character
> > Creation system, as it is almost a game into itself.
>
> Amen. What other game has ever had the balls to kill you in chargen?
That's a 2.0 laugh-out-loud for Steve. I never really thought of it
that way before.
- -Russell B
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 13:12:36 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: FYI: GT Solomani Rim Book in Playtest
According to the 8 Mar 00 _Daily Illuminator_, GT: Rim of Fire, their
Solomani Rim sourcebook, is now in playtest.
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 14:22:19 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Psychological Effects of an Invasion (was: no ground troops)
In a message dated 3/8/00 4:43:54 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:
<< In the warbots and orbital scenario, the enemy remains faceless. Deep down,
a good segment of the populace will not be able to accept defeat, because
they never had the chance to fight! >>
You have a point there... I wonder how history would have been changed if
they hadn't signed the WWI armistace until they had invaded Germany. This
would have eliminated the "we were never defeated on the battlefield; the
German Army was stabbed in the back" excuse...
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 19:39:13 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Failure company=failed game?
At 15:25 08.03.00 GMT, Boris Cibic wrote:
>Roc wrote:
>I did not make the assertion of failed company = failed game...I am well
>aware of some of the reasons why GDW kicked the bucket. But the fact is
>until G:T. Traveller has failed to win over significant new market share.
>This is due to decline in popularity of RPGs, but, also due a lack lustre
>advertizing campaign.
That's a good point. We all know Windows 9x isn't the most stable or
technologically advanced OS. But marketing made it superior in numbers
(running licenses).
I think Tha's partly what happened to Traveller, that's one of the reasons
why it isn't as popular as it could(and IMO should) be today, after 23 years.
Another reason might be (thoug I am not certain about it) th Rebellion and
the so-called "silly era". Both changed the game background dramatically,
which I personnally didn't feel comfortable with. Again, marketing is part
of this point: Without a uiverse-chaning meta-plot, perhaps T would have
been even more successful. There _is_ a meta-plot in GT , too, but it
doesn't seem to have a large impact on the game universe. A GM can more
easily both do his/her own camapign _and_ stay within canon. (I hope it
remains that way...)
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 19:44:07 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Illumniati?(was: Re: Interstellar Democracies in YTU)
At 13:22 07.03.00, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>>Isn't it intersting that those guys are not one-tenth as popular in Germany
>>than in the U.S.? I learned that they might have existed from a GURPS
book...
>
>That's it. This weekend I finish writing the Illuminated Traveller Campaign.
{shudder]
>But just to tickle the imagination of our newly enlightened member.. Take a
>look at a portrait of George Washington. Then one of Adam Weishaupt,
>founder of the Bavarian Illumniati. Eerie, eh?
No. Partly because I#ve no portraits of those two guys at hand, partly due
to the fashion of those days.
>Now realize that when Washington resigned his commission as General of the
>Army, he expressed to many people his intention of returning to life as a
>farmer, not wanting any more public exposure. But soon after Adam Weishaupt
>disappears from Europe, Washington is suddenly a very active President...
:-)
This parnoia attitude is not the kind of game I like for me as GM or
player. In addition: Who cares what President Washington's real name was?
If you knew that all what the gouvernment tells you is a lie, what would
you do against it? And why?
;)
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 20:13:03 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: What if . . .
At 23:36 07.03.00 -0500, Steve Daniels wrote:
>Jump duration was nearly instaneous?
>
>
> - Centralized government, adminstration more efficient, or
>"Hands on"? X-Boat travel would certainly be able to keep
>the Emperor up to date and allow him to react quicker.
>
> - Different assumptions of ship design?
Battle riders would be a dead concept, I think. Instantenaous jumps means
also in-battle jumps.
>I've been thinking about designing a new TU. Maybe I've been
>reading too much Peter Hamilton, but I don't see why jump
>travel should always take a week.
I've posted an article on jump space theory to Freelance Traveller, where
I've included (as I think) conclusive explanations for this and several
other effeects of jump space. Jeff Zeitlin is going to publish it, though I
don't have an URL yet, I apologize.
> And rather than get into
>a discussion about why it should or shouldn't take that long,
>I prefer to ask simply, what if it was instanteous?
To answer your last question: It would have a great impact on Traveller
history. The Vlani would have spread much faster, wars would have taken
completely different paths(since you can send a message that you require
reinforcements, and those reinforcements can arrive only hours, if not
minutes, later.). It would be something completely away from OTU.
IMO, of course.
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 19:48:02 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Vargr and Aslan expansion(was:Re: The low jump number question)
At 01:28 08.03.00 +0100, you wrote:
>Ingo Heinscher writes:
>
>>On the Vargr, they stopped expanding when they encountered other, stronger
>>empires than their own pocket states.
>
>Not in all directions. The Vargr were halfway down into Gvurrdon Sector in
>-2400, yet they don't manage to get the 20 parsecs further down into the
>Spinward Marches until the Imperials are powerful enough to prevent them
>>from encroaching. That's around 600, 3000 year later! Up until around 100
>the Spinward Marches were mostly empty and they don't really begin to fill
>up in earnest until around 400. The presumption is that Gvurrdon had its
>version of the Long Night between -2400 and 600.
Or the various Vargr of that age had the habit of erradicating entire
planetary colonies... anyway, that _iis_ an interesting question.
>>And the Aslan were mostly stopped in their spherical expansion by Solomani
>>and the Great Rift (though this doesn't explain why the Aslan have not
>>seized much more territory beyond Charted space... but perhaps they have,
>>and map just don't show that, or these clans are not part of the Hierate).
>
>The Aslans just don't expand very quickly, at least not when they have to
>cross the Great Rift to do it. They first crossed the GF around -1000 and
>3000 years later they still don't cover more than about 13 subsectors worth.
>And that includes all the scattered Aslan splinter states.
But according to their culture (obesession of land possession) shouldn't
they expand at a marvellous rate? Their population density wouldn't be
high, of course, but they should be _spread_. Why aren't they much more?
Any suggestions, anyone?
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 19:58:42 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: All-powerful anagathics(was:Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition)
At 22:25 07.03.00 EST, TDRandall@aol.com wrote:
>>I guess it's just a matter of perspective. When already faced with
eternity in >>heaven, what's the big deal with perhaps a (couple?) hundred
more years here?
>
>My fear would be the continued, even increased, separation of "have"s and
"have-
>not"s. I mean, whoever is in control (whether you think of that as
individuals or
>as a generation as a whole) is going to make sure to STAY in control for a
long
>long time! I suppose some may think me paranoid, but can't you forsee
ruling
>parties that have held office for 100+ years, while their constituencies
keep
>living 70ish years (or less if things REALLY divide)?
You are not paranoid, I'd say. With the possible abolition of aging, to be
old is to be more powerful (though there will be exception, of course).
Anyway, when faced the question: "Will you let your parents die of age or
will you aggre with either never rising on top of power or go to unsetteld
territory?", I know what my choice will be. And yours, too.
BTW: The abolition of aging will not abolish death. Statistically, every
human being will still die. Although a bit later, and usually by violence
or accidents.
ObTrav: A race of immortals is very likely to expand quickly in space (even
with only STL travel... you know why). Let's assume for a moment that aging
has been abolished in OTU. The emperor's list could still be valid, since
there will still be accidents, assasination attempts, military conflicts,
etc. Personnally, I feel that the necessary adjustments having to be made
are not that heavy.
Has anyone something in mind why history of OTU would be changed by the
invention of all-powerful anagathics at, say, TL9?
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2024
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, March 8 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2025
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
Re: Illumniati?(was: Re: Interstellar Democracies in YTU)
Traveller dead? - clarification - and the death of Alternity
Re: What if . . .
Re: Psychological Effects of an Invasion (was: no ground troops)
Re: Failure company=failed game?
Re: Illumniati?(was: Re: Interstellar Democracies in YTU)
Re: Traveller dead? - clarification - and the death of Alternity
Re: What if . . .
Re: What if . . .
Re: Using no ground troops
Vs: GasBg HoloRecorder Pics and Rule Of Man Coins
RE: warbots
TOUCHSTONE
Re: What if . . .
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
A DUNE LUG
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Impact of Alternate FTL Ideas
Re: Traveller Went Down?
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Traveller Went Down?
RE: warbots
Re: warbots
Re: Traveller Went Down?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 20:04:03 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
At 20:18 07.03.00 -0800, James W. Lindsay wrote:
>> >Correction: it's worlds with starports *with stuff to trade*. Profit can
>> >be made every step of the way along a jump-1 main, while the same is
>> >impossible jumping through three intervening empty space hexes.
>>
>> Agreed on both. Though I'd say that (assuming something which is not true
>> for the ZS, that is, you want to build your empire by spreading your own
>> population among the stars) it's still more economic to bring people to an
>> off-main world and bring them the first few production goods they need
>> rather than to ship them along a "main world" some one or even two years
away.
>
>Again, nobody is suggesting that production goods would be transported over
>a distance of so many parsecs (ie: a year or two away). It took 300 years
>for the Ziru Sirka to expand to 10 parsecs. Just pretend that it took 30
>years for every 1 parsec radii expansion change and you'll see that most of
>the new colonies would become quite proficient at creating the stuff
>necessary for the next ring of worlds to be colonized.
But this shows just one thing: _If_ you want to build an empire by
spreading your own population, going the way the Vilani went is not the
best approach. The thing that I forgot here when I started this thread is:
The Vilani didn't plann to bzuuild an empire. Tehy just invented jump
drive, made a profit out of it, and waited a few centuries. _Then_ they
thought it would be better for them to make an empire out of
then-known-space. If the Vilani had been more Solomani-like(and tehre
wouldn't have been so mani minor races), they would probably have settled
the way I had in mind. But this was not the case.
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 20:27:26 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Illumniati?(was: Re: Interstellar Democracies in YTU)
At 09:48 08.03.00 +1000, Alan Bradley wrote:
>> >It was called the
>> >Bavarian Illuminati...
>>
>> Isn't it intersting that those guys are not one-tenth as popular in
>Germany
>> than in the U.S.? I learned that they might have existed from a GURPS
>book...
>
>There's just a different strand of nutty conspiracy theories in the US than
>in Germany. Of course, the historically most common conspiracy theory in
>Germany went a bit out of fashion in 1945....
:-)
Actually it's not that conspiracy theories are unpopular because of the
things that happened then, but because of (sorry, guys) a higher _average_
education level in Germany than in the U.S. Look into your history books:
There are so many ridiculous triggers to events that had a serious impact
in history of mankind, any conspiracy would not have had the ability to
survive. (Perhaps the exception being "conspiracies" that just talk- like
Monthy Python's Life Of Brian folks... what's their name in English?
People's Front of Judaea?")
[snip]
>The "modern" conspiracy theorists in the US are generally far-right
>religious nutcases, who lump everything they don't like together into this
>great all-encompassing thing, and invent factoids to explain away its
>obvious absurdity. In the end, though, they are basically working with a
>dualist distortion of Christianity, and the "power" behind the conspiracy
>is Satan.
:-)
And Roswell is a temple for His Evil's sake? There are other Conspiracy
theories, aren't they?
(I mean, we all know that that spaceship at Roswell was a Vilani
scoutship...;-) )
[snip]
>To get back to Traveller:
[snip]
>Because the Imperium isn't a democracy, and neither are many of its member
>worlds, popular opposition groups will also often need to take on some
>conspiratorial forms (cell structures, false names, and the like). Some of
>them may even have the full business of elaborate initiation rituals, funny
>handshakes and so on too. (Others won't - I generally regard the Ine Givar
>as being in this category.)
[snip]
I use them in my campaign, actually, in exactly this manner. Though like
all secret societies, their influence is rather low. (My PC'S work for a
"Foundation" whose true nature they haven't realized yet.
>Of course, all of this is a distinctly one-sided view of how the OTU works.
> That's what conspiracy theories are!
Yep. They are simple. Easy to understand. Mono-causal.
Boring.
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 19:45:00 GMT
From: "Boris Cibic"
Subject: Traveller dead? - clarification - and the death of Alternity
Many on the list tend to take my comments the wrong way. What I am calling
for is a Traveller Rennaisance which would akin to the CT era and early MT.
When there was tons of Traveller items not only those produced by GDW but by
all sorts of independents. We can make it happen again now that we have the
resources of the WEB at our fingertips. The real secret would be make a
game which incorporates the best of this grand 23 yr tradition. ONCE AGAIN
MEANS THAT: we have to be critical and appropiate from other games and
rethink some of our core rules (this way keep up with the times). Kindly
view my comments in that light, as we all have our own Traveller Universe.
The background, we share and ought to built upon.
BTW, I saw the funeral announcement of Alternity in rpg.net
That leaves Traveller once again to bring light into the new milenium.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 14:51:34 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: What if . . .
In a message dated 3/8/00 7:36:23 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de writes:
<< Different assumptions of ship design?
Battle riders would be a dead concept, I think. Instantenaous jumps means
also in-battle jumps. >>
I disagree. The tenders can pop out as soon as they dump their riders, and
can pop back in anytime (prearranged time and location of course...). You
still keep your drives in a central mothership, and the riders don't have to
have them, so they keep their design advantages.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 11:50:44
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Psychological Effects of an Invasion (was: no ground troops)
At 02:22 PM 3/8/2000 EST, you wrote:
>You have a point there... I wonder how history would have been changed if
>they hadn't signed the WWI armistace until they had invaded Germany. This
>would have eliminated the "we were never defeated on the battlefield; the
>German Army was stabbed in the back" excuse...
We see a lot of that in the US over Vietnam. We can't accept the notion of
a political defeat in which we were the military victors. It *really*
screwed us up for a time.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 11:52:29
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Failure company=failed game?
At 07:39 PM 3/8/2000 +0100, you wrote:
>Another reason might be (thoug I am not certain about it) th Rebellion and
>the so-called "silly era".
Quick point: I agree with what you say here, but "Silly Era" is the name
for my Traveller humor pages.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 11:54:06
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Illumniati?(was: Re: Interstellar Democracies in YTU)
At 07:44 PM 3/8/2000 +0100, you wrote:
>This parnoia attitude is not the kind of game I like for me as GM or
>player. In addition: Who cares what President Washington's real name was?
>If you knew that all what the gouvernment tells you is a lie, what would
>you do against it? And why?
Well, it would mean that the entire giovernment is a puppet sg=hame, built
to serve an unknown purpose....
I love conspiracy theory, manly because it makes for such good plot lines!
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 12:05:28
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Traveller dead? - clarification - and the death of Alternity
At 07:45 PM 3/8/2000 GMT, you wrote:
>Many on the list tend to take my comments the wrong way. What I am calling
>for is a Traveller Rennaisance which would akin to the CT era and early MT.
Which is already being done, thanks to the Classic reprint project.
>When there was tons of Traveller items not only those produced by GDW but by
>all sorts of independents. We can make it happen again now that we have the
>resources of the WEB at our fingertips. The real secret would be make a
>game which incorporates the best of this grand 23 yr tradition.
Talk to Marc. He owns the game. He controls to licence. If Marc were to
tell me to take down every Traveller reference on The Silly Era, I'd have
no choice but to comply.
One thing you must understand, we all love Traveller, but we fight like
rabid weasels over the details. I really like GT and MT. Some are purists
about TNE or CT, some even like T4! Trying to please *everyone* would
result in a mess.
>ONCE AGAIN MEANS THAT: we have to be critical and appropiate from other
>games and rethink some of our core rules (this way keep up with the times).
Please kill the all caps. It's very annoying, and I don't appreciate being
shouted at by someone whose name I've only seen in the last week or so.
Anyway, what's this "we" stuff? We don't own the game. Marc and Loren
graciously allow us to put up web pages about the game, encourage us to
write for the game (the new JTAS online will accept articles about any
edition of the game), and Loren even hires us to write the sourcebooks!
The next edition of traveller is firmly in the hands of one person: Marc
Miller. That is something you have to understand. We can wail all we want,
but in the end, it is his game.
>Kindly view my comments in that light, as we all have our own Traveller
>Universe. The background, we share and ought to built upon.
We do. Have you cruised the Traveller Web Ring?
>BTW, I saw the funeral announcement of Alternity in rpg.net
>That leaves Traveller once again to bring light into the new milenium.
It's a bloody game. It isn't feeding the hungry, or clothing the poor.
Anyway, GURPS Traveller is doing very well, seven books in eighteen months,
and my local shops tell me that they sell out of new ones within a day or
two of first shipment. That's what is getting us a new audience, being
tied to an established, well funded and competent company like SJG.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
Inquisitor Maximus, Reformed Canon Church of Sylea
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 14:09:27 -0600
From: Stormhound
Subject: Re: What if . . .
Steve Daniels wrote:
> Jump duration was nearly instaneous?
Then depending upon the time required for calculations, microjumps become
a consideration for combat. Talk about chaos...
- --
Stormhound
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 14:24:39 -0600
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)
Subject: Re: What if . . .
stutterwarp?
- -----Original Message-----
From: Stormhound
Subject: Re: What if . . .
>Steve Daniels wrote:
>
>> Jump duration was nearly instaneous?
>
> Then depending upon the time required for calculations, microjumps
become
>a consideration for combat. Talk about chaos...
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 12:42:23 -0800
From: sneadj@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: Using no ground troops
>From: sneadj@mindspring.com
...
>>Very true, I really don't see much difference between the
>>warbots and troops except that:
>
>>1) The warbots are much harder to ambush, since they never
>>sleep, and would hover at least 5-10 m off the ground.
> If you want to discuss warbot armies for ground combat and
>clearing cities instead of robot military police for the occupation
>administration why didn't you just say so at the outset?
I was actually talking about their use for both. However, the initial
discussion was about whether it was necessary to conquer a world
(nations or whatever) with ground troops, even if the conqueror
already had air (or space) superiority. I was saying that using
ground troops was wasterful and unnecessary.
Once the conquest was complete, I wold expect regular police
forces to move in. Their work would be supplemented and aided by
the warbots (which would likely allow the conqueror to use a
soewhat smaller number of police). However, their primary role
would be conquest.
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 23:11:30 +0200
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jussi_Kenkkil=E4?=
Subject: Vs: GasBg HoloRecorder Pics and Rule Of Man Coins
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Linsenmayer
To:
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2000 12:49 AM
Subject: GasBg HoloRecorder Pics and Rule Of Man Coins
> I am working on a ohh... tech 10 GasBg Holo Recorder/Player and a Rule Of
> Man Coins.
>
> Posted here:
> http://www.bigbailey.com/vspace/art/projects_under_construction.htm
>
> let me know what you guys think.
>
I like them, especially the holorecorder. It's just so functional-looking (or something, can't really point to any single reason I like it. It reminds me of some devices I opened up as a kid...)
- -J2K
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 13:05:08 -0800
From: sneadj@mindspring.com
Subject: RE: warbots
Ian Ferguson wrote:
>Anthony Jackson write:
>>Master-slave units are not viable unless every warbot has a
>>meson comm. Jamming is much too easy.
> This should often be a problem. Has anyone come up with some
> ideas to get around jamming (other than meson comm)?
Program most of the robots to not enter buildings and to stay high
(perhaps 10 meters off of the ground). Outfit them with radios (as
backup) and Maser comms (for primary communication).
The only way to stop the maser comm is to interpose something
between the robot and the maser source. If you are broadcasting
from a network of orbital satellites (since we are already assuming
you hold orbit) attackers are going to need to cover the robot in
thick goo, metallic cloth or something similar. Even then, the radio
will get through unless they are also using a jammer.
Also, even then, the robot will have a low data brain as backup
(since they are both cheap and small), so it can attempt to free
and defend itself.
Losses will happen, but so will troop loses. For house clearing
etc, it would likely be better to use robots with at least high data
brains (costlier) & maser links (so they can report back and receive
more complex orders). However, you might only need to make 1 in
5 robots like this, so you are saving 20K Cr/robot which only has a
low data brain.
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 16:06:15 -0500
From: "Garcia, Abel"
Subject: TOUCHSTONE
- -----Original Message-----
From: Michael Maley [mailto:mmaley@home.com]
I do like to do maps and design vehicles/ships. I love the Hexmap
shareware. Been generating subsectors in Touchstone with it.
darkhstarr
________________________________________________
What is "Touchstone"?
Abel
(tne++)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 13:11:19 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: What if . . .
In mail you write:
> Jump duration was nearly instaneous?
>
> - Centralized government, adminstration more efficient, or
> "Hands on"? X-Boat travel would certainly be able to keep
> the Emperor up to date and allow him to react quicker.
>
> - Different assumptions of ship design?
>
> I've been thinking about designing a new TU. Maybe I've been
> reading too much Peter Hamilton, but I don't see why jump
> travel should always take a week. And rather than get into
> a discussion about why it should or shouldn't take that long,
> I prefer to ask simply, what if it was instanteous?
You'd have a totally different game. Speed of communication (via
Xboats) would be such that only the sheer *amount* of information would
impede strong central control. And governments have always been good at
ignoring "irrelevant" information.
It'd change the trading picture beyond recognition as well.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 13:12:13 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
On Wed, 8 Mar 2000 06:12:22 -0500, Steve Daniels wrote:
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: john hamilton
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Date: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 4:16 AM
> Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
>
>
> >You mean as in Shadowrun,where they succesfully adapt
> >every few years?(For example,the latest edition
> >includes nanotech.).
>
> And FASA went bankrupt.
Since when?
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
I'd love to, but I've dedicated my life to linguini.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 13:13:04 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
On Wed, 08 Mar 2000 01:27:34 -0800, Steven Hudson wrote:
> >From: "James W. Lindsay"
> >Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
> >
> >troll...
>
> Or maybe just ignorant/stupid. Do you think he's an Alternity
> or a Rifts -type person?
Are there trolls in Alternity or Rifts?
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
I'd love to, but I've dedicated my life to linguini.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 16:14:02 -0500
From: "Garcia, Abel"
Subject: A DUNE LUG
- -----Original Message-----
From: Legate Legion [mailto:legate@futureone.com]
Looking at my LUG Star Trek Books (btw, I think MM is working for LUG
now), it sems to me that it follows the same ideas of character creation as
Traveller. I.e. youth, education, enlistment. And, as I have just got some
emails for the people over at LUG today, it seems to me that LUG is still in
print, & will stay in print for a long time. Also, they will use the same
basic system in their Dune RPG,...
What is "LUG" and is there really a DUNE RPG or is someone just talking
about making one?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 13:16:01 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
On Wed, 8 Mar 2000 01:13:39 -0800 (PST), john hamilton wrote:
> I find it fascinating when people get angry for
> essentially harmless criticism of unimportant things
> like sports or games,and desperatly trying to find
> some hidden agenda behind it.Very amusing.
Not having seen anything posted by yourself prior to this thread, I still
say you're a troll...
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
I'd love to, but I've dedicated my life to linguini.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 13:18:56 -0800
From: sneadj@mindspring.com
Subject: Impact of Alternate FTL Ideas
I've been thinking about a new campaign, and figured folks here
were a great source to mine for ideas.
The 1 week/jump does a reasonable job of recreating pre-telegraph
18th-19th century transportation and communication speeds. So,
what effect would other options have? I'm wondering what a SF
setting would be like if jumps took say 2 months each, or if some
form of stargates were used which allowed transport from any
system with a gate to any other system with a gate, but the travel
time though the gate was on the order of 4-6 months.
Such a setting would obviously have much less capacity for large-
scale government, so any form of Imperium would either not exist
or be very different. What other changes do folks think likely?
What historical model would work best?
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 18:23:05 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: Traveller Went Down?
At 3:36 -0500 8/3/00, "Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
> >Traveller went down? How come nobody tells me about these things? Here I've
> >been dedicating my life to writing stuff for a dead system -- geez
>lou-eeze...
>
>That's OK Loren, some of us have been dedicating our lives to buying stuff
>for a dead system.
And writing more stuff for it - ohmigawd, it's dead? I'd better tell
Andy to leave ACQ at the 50 copies we've produced so far and forget
GenCon this year...
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 18:26:56 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
At 5:43 -0500 8/3/00, john hamilton wrote:
>Do you really think I would be on this mailing list if
>I wouldn't like Traveller?
>Unless,of course,you think I'm a agent provocateur
>from T$R ( the best conspiracy theories are the ones
about unimportant things.................)
Who? Oh you mean that failed company?
;-)
ISTR that WotC have killed TSR as a brand now...
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 18:34:39 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
At 10:54 -0500 8/3/00, "Steve Daniels" wrote:
>>And FASA went bankrupt.
>>
>> >Yes,I'm a secret agent of T$R.
>>
>>They went bankrupt too and were bought up
>>by the Magic: CCG people (Wizards of the Coaster).
When did FASA go bankrupt? Didn't they recently make a lot selling
their interactive division to Micro$oft?
I can remember WEG, and ICE and Mayfair having problems, plus TSR?
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 13:38:52
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Traveller Went Down?
At 06:23 PM 3/8/2000 +0000, you wrote:
>And writing more stuff for it - ohmigawd, it's dead? I'd better tell
>Andy to leave ACQ at the 50 copies we've produced so far and forget
>GenCon this year...
Dom, you even try it and you'll find yourself looking at the business end
of an Emperor Penguin...
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 13:41:53
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: RE: warbots
At 01:05 PM 3/8/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>Program most of the robots to not enter buildings and to stay high
>(perhaps 10 meters off of the ground). Outfit them with radios (as
>backup) and Maser comms (for primary communication).
I still own everything worth having then. Like cities, factories, the
starport...
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 13:48:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: warbots
sneadj@mindspring.com writes:
>
> Program most of the robots to not enter buildings and to stay high
> (perhaps 10 meters off of the ground). Outfit them with radios (as
> backup) and Maser comms (for primary communication).
Anything you can see from 10 meters off the ground, you can see (and shoot)
from orbit.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 13:53:20 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: Traveller Went Down?
On Wed, 08 Mar 2000 13:38:52, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> At 06:23 PM 3/8/2000 +0000, you wrote:
>
> >And writing more stuff for it - ohmigawd, it's dead? I'd better tell
> >Andy to leave ACQ at the 50 copies we've produced so far and forget
> >GenCon this year...
>
> Dom, you even try it and you'll find yourself looking at the business end
> of an Emperor Penguin...
I thought penguins had *two* business ends?
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
I'd love to, but I've dedicated my life to linguini.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2025
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, March 8 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2026
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Why Traveller still survives...
Re: Warbots
Re: Warbots
Re: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000 - Don't blame me for the subject line
Re: Psychological Effects of an Invasion (was: no ground troops)
Re: Why Traveller went down (to Georgia)
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Impact of Alternate FTL Ideas
A New Traveller
Re: A DUNE LUG
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
re: Warbots
Re: Warbots
Brubeks tonight
Re: warbots
re: Warbots
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2023
Re: Traveller Went Down?
Re: Warbots
Re: Why Traveller still survives...
Re: warbots
RE: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000 - Don't blame me for the subject line
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 16:52:45 -0500
From: Mark Urbin
Subject: Why Traveller still survives...
>Of course to add nanotech to Traveller would invalidate just about
>every previously published supplement for it. Though I suppose this
>would keep your sales up (unless your buyers abbandoned you in
>disgust).
This is the reason I stopped buying Battletech stuff after FASA decided to
cater to the Munchkin crowd with the introduction of the Clans and all that
other bullstuff...
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
It was a typical net.exercise -- a screaming mob pounding on a greasy spot
on the pavement, where used to lie the carcass of a dead horse.
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 13:16:52 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Warbots
In mail you write:
> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>
>>For that matter, you can build EMP "mines" that could kill a
>>robot, but wouldn't injure a person.
>
> EMP sheilding isn't *that* difficult.
Touche!
>>Traveller has no "stunners". There is no weapon you can equip the
>>robots with that is 100% non-lethal. *Any* weapon capable of
>>stopping an enraged adult human will *kill* a child or weakened
>>human.
>
>>Tranq darts? The "sure stop" dose for that adrenalin charged adult
>>will be lethal if it hits a child.
>
> Actually, MT and TNE both have completely safe, totally non-lethal
> tranq darts. From the MT, Player's Manual pp. 94-95, dosage
> controlled non-lethal agents:
>
> "Non-lethal agents consist of two types: dose-controlled (available
> at tech code Avg Stellar +) and standard. With dose controlled
> agents, the damage points accumulate once the unconsciousness
> level is reached; any further tranq damage beyond the unconscious
> level is ignored. With standard agents, the tranq damage is
> temporary, but it can go beyond the unconscious level. If the death
> level is reached, the character or animal dies from an overdose of
> tranq."
I missed that. And those "dose controlled" rounds are nothing other
than *magic*, but...
Even so, consider what happens if the tranq round strikes someone in
the face or other easily damaged area. I recall an SF story that had
this sort of "non-lethal, absolutely safe" tranq gun. And a pissed off
cop blinded the hero by emptying a clip into his face.
Now, admittedly, the robots will aim to minimize this, but the fact is,
targets *move*, and once the round leaves the barrel, it's too late.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 13:22:14 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Warbots
In mail you write:
> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>
>>For that matter, you can build EMP "mines" that could kill a
>>robot, but wouldn't injure a person.
>
> EMP sheilding isn't *that* difficult.
Just realized a "counter" to this.
EMP shielding isn't that difficult IF YOU AREN'T TRANSMITTING OR
RECEIVING. Master/slave type warbots *can't* be EMP shielded if they
use radio. That's because the shielding would block the radio signals
too.
Independent warbots can't be shielded either if they use radio, but
then they can get along without it a bit better. But you won't have any
records of what happened to any that get destroyed. Nor will you be
able to summon them to a problem.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 13:34:04 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000 - Don't blame me for the subject line
In mail you write:
> Actually, having a pool of unemployed people is a good thing for the
> economy. It means that there are quick replacements for vacancies.
Actually, it means no such thing. Not in a society where most jobs are
*skilled* jobs. You have to *train* replacements. Which makes them far
from "instant". It makes more sense (in most industries) to employ a
few "extra" workers and have all of the workers working at rather less
than "optimum" load. That way if someone getsd sick or quits, you have
*trained* people to absorb the slack.
> Also the fact that there is someone out there waiting for someones
> job means that people tend to work a bit harder for a bit less,
> keeping wages lower and productivity higher, which can only be good
> for the economy.
Except that wages have a legally set minimum, and workloads (at
*intelligent* employers) are less than 100%.
> But to be effective the pool has to be kept at manageable levels. I think I
> have heard figures like 5% being bandied about.
Keep in mind that (at least in the US) current "unemployment" figures
bear no resemblance to *real* unemployment. They only count those
people currently receiving unemployment benefits, plus a few others who
have run out of benefits but are still "actively searching" (which
essentially meanss putting in a lot of time in a fairly hopeless cause,
since if you can't get hired by the time your benefits run out, you
aren't *likely* to get hired anytime soon).
> Not to mention the social responsibilty all us working types have to those
> less fortunate than us. Unemployed people deserve quality of life, not just
> mere subsistance.
I've come to the conclusion that in spite of all the talk about
switching to a "sevice based" economy, what's *really* going to have to
happen is the recognition that in a modern, industrialized socity with
*automation*, there often *won't* be enough jobs to go around. So we
either try for government "make work" projects (like the Depression era
CCC and other such things) or we need to remove the stigma from
"welfare" and quit pretending that it's for "losers".
> ob trav: However, this has got me thinking about creating a world with a
> democracy where the number of votes you have is determined by how much you
> earn. However, your earnings must be taxable income.
> Welfare exists, but you lose your vote for the number of years that you are
> on welfare.
> Which means that in a twisted way some of the rich autocrats see advantage
> in having a generous welfare system to encourage less people to vote,
> thearby giving them a greater controlling vote......... this idea develops
> as I write it.... I'll get back to
> the list if it goes somewhere!
This gets *really* unbalanced, really fast.
On the other hand, tie the votes to the *taxes* you pay, and it gets
more interesting. Everybody gets one vote. Taxes are "flat rate" at,
say, 10%. You get an extra vote for every extra 1% of taxes you pay.
This way you can swing an election a few times, but trying to keep
doing it will bankrupt you. But your extra tax contributions will help
keep taxes low!
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 13:50:56 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Psychological Effects of an Invasion (was: no ground troops)
In mail you write:
> There are many times that this will not apply. A completely outclassed
> world will surrender most times, and there are cultures that have managed
> to suppress this urge (Gandhi's teachings in India come to mind), but on a
> large world that can defend itself, you need to "plant the flag in the
> other guy's ass" to use a phrase I heard while in the Army.
>
> Not that for Traveller, this only applies to humans. The Vargr would also
> probably follow this model, and the Aslan, but I have no idea how this
> would apply to the K'Kree or Hivers.
K'kree, being herd animals by nature, you only need to get the herd
leader to admit defeat.
Hivers? I'm not sure they *do* dominance...
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 13:53:23 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Why Traveller went down (to Georgia)
In mail you write:
>>>>
> Define "science", please - I know people who go into fits of
> laughter at the "popular" suggestion that nanotech is hard science; its
> not much more likely than some peoples beliefs in magic, faith healing,
> or papal infallibility.
> <<<
>
> Oh Come on, there is a sound basis for papal infallibility!
>
> Ok, gearhead question: Why isnt a BuckyBall hull ship cannon?
Bucky*balls* make for a lousy hull. Composites incorporating
bucky*tubes*, ought to be quite strong. About as strong as is
physically possible.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 21:34:09 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
At 14:34 -0500 8/3/00, Bill Dunn wrote:
>Of course, fierce competition for game-buying dollars from Vampire and Magic
>sure didn't help things any. Magic's impact on the game market was
>ridiculous. What do you think caused TSR's cashflow problems and bankruptcy?
Over-investment in books (fiction) which did not sell and were placed
into the supply chain on a sale or return basis. ?
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 14:15:57 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy"
Subject: Re: Impact of Alternate FTL Ideas
>The 1 week/jump does a reasonable job of recreating pre-telegraph
>18th-19th century transportation and communication speeds. So,
>what effect would other options have? I'm wondering what a SF
>setting would be like if jumps took say 2 months each, or if some
>form of stargates were used which allowed transport from any
>system with a gate to any other system with a gate, but the travel
>time though the gate was on the order of 4-6 months.
Personally I'm rather fond of the methods used in the books by David Weber.
Both the Honor Harrington novels, and the Starfire novels. In Starfire all
travel is via Wormholes, in the Harrington setting it's a combo of
Wormholes and a rather interesting form of FTL travel. It can still take
quite a while get from a planet in one system to a planet in another, even
if there is a Wormhole connecting the two as you've got to travel the
distance between the Wormhole and the planets.
Travel through a Wormhole is almost instantanious, which means you've
actually got FTL communications between systems. The message has to travel
from the source to the wormhole, and then be couriered through on a ship.
For planets not connected via Wormhole you've still got the comm lag.
This could actually be injected into an existing Traveller campaign in a
couple of ways. One idea is the Imperium has known about if for a long
time, and it's a "State Secret". The other possibility is that it's just
been discovered, possibly as a result of the Longbow project. Maybe
someone just accidentally stumbled through one finally, maybe clues were
discovered in an archological dig.
If something like this has just been discovered chaos would ensue as
systems with no value whatsoever, have vast strategic and economic value.
It might take 1/7th the amount of time it used to take to get from the
Spinward Marches to earth or it might take a week.
Of course trying to take a region of space the size of the Imperium and
calculate which systems have wormholes and where they connect (not even
taking into account those that go to uncharted space) would be enough to
drive a person crazy :^)
Just think of the possibilities, suddenly SDB's and In-System bulk
freighters are interestellar capable, and there is a big demand for
seriously heavy duty fixed defenses around some of the wormholes!
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 14:08:42 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: A New Traveller
Here's my thoughts on something that can and I think *should* be done,
regardless of whatever *else* gets done regarding new versions.
Create a Traveller *web* game. A program that includes character
creation, ship combat, possibly personal combat and has modules for
ship, vehicle and system design.
The most elementary version would have you create your PC and some NPCs
and take your ship out trading, exploring or whatever. You'd visit
worlds and systems that were set up on the web. True 3-d systems. With
a selection of Major systems predifined at the official web site, and
folks who buy the world design modules being able to link in worlds of
their own.
So, when you visit a system, some of the ships could be ships belonging
to other gamers. Handling combat between owned ships would only be a
problem in that you'd have to arrange for both players to be online at
the same time.
Alas, I don't think we can easily extend the idea to on-planet
adventuring, though we could at least have stuff on the level of the
old MegaTraveller games and similar computer games from the past. But
if we could integrate "computer generated" ports and areas with those
generated by "GMs" we might really have something.
I suspect that if we did it right, the systems controlled by real
people would be more popular, especially the ones done by people who
worked at it.
I also suspect, we might need a mechanism for removing "inactive"
worlds and especially ones that were *really* badly done (though the
need to "do" them via a program interface might help eliminate gross
abuses of the rules).
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 13:40:03 -0800
From: Keith Johnson
Subject: Re: A DUNE LUG
>- -----Original Message-----
>From: Legate Legion [mailto:legate@futureone.com]
>
>Looking at my LUG Star Trek Books (btw, I think MM is working for LUG
>now), it sems to me that it follows the same ideas of character creation as
>Traveller. I.e. youth, education, enlistment.
Interesting. Of course, I haven't checked out the credits or mechanics for
LUG Trek.
>And, as I have just got some
>emails for the people over at LUG today, it seems to me that LUG is still in
>print, & will stay in print for a long time.
Even after the horror that was Aria (which qualifies as a SAN reducing
Mythos text as far as I am concerned) LUG's is still in business and doing
quite well with the Star Trek licence.
Despite licensing problems that have held up printing the book, DUNE:
Chronicles of the Imperium should be released late March/ early April.
>Also, they will use the same
>basic system in their Dune RPG,...
My understanding is that Dune is going to use a modified version of the
Icon system. As I could care less about roleplaying in the Star Trek
universe, I am waiting for LUG to finally print and distribute Dune.
>What is "LUG" and is there really a DUNE RPG or is someone just talking
>about making one?
Last Unicorn Games. There really is going to be a Dune rpg.
http://www.lastunicorngames.com/the_games/dune/body_dune.html
_________________________________________________________
Rev. Keith Johnson /\ keith@sjgames.com
Assistant Webmaster /()\ keithalanjohnson@home.com
Steve Jackson Games /____\ reverendkeith@hotmail.com
"I choose you, Dullinor!" - PokeTrav Master
IMTU tm++@ t4+@ tg++$ ru- ge-@ st+ pi+ he+ dr+ hi-@ zh+
_________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 17:17:56 -0500
From: Mark Urbin
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
>And FASA went bankrupt.
>Since when?
Well, perhaps Morally bankrupt...
Their cash flow seems to be fine...
The two, rather thin, modules for their Crimson Skies board game are $20 each.
That's the price for a major GURPS sourcebook...
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
You sound reasonable ... time to up my medication
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 17:16:45 -0500
From: "Smith, Walter"
Subject: re: Warbots
Non-lethal weapons - in the _Divine Intervention_ Classic Traveller
adventure (flip side to _Night of Conquest_, IIRC) the heroes are
equipped with "stun carbines". Non-lethal, I think they were based
on some frequency of sonics. I don't recall if they were 100% safe,
but I do recall that they were worthless against someone in a vacc
suit, battle dress or combat armor - but a tranq dart won't work well
through any of these outfits either.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 14:24:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: Warbots
Leonard Erickson writes:
> EMP shielding isn't that difficult IF YOU AREN'T TRANSMITTING OR
> RECEIVING. Master/slave type warbots *can't* be EMP shielded if they
> use radio. That's because the shielding would block the radio signals
> too.
Sure they can be shielded; its just that the antenna needs to be outside of
the shielding. This does mean you need to add some sort of surge suppressor
in the antenna, but that's not impossible.
Pure master-slave warbots are a dumb idea anyway, they're vulnerable to a
wide range of countermeasures.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 16:31:15 CST6CDT
From: igor@truserve.com
Subject: Brubeks tonight
If anyone cares...
I'll be hanging out at Brubek's tonight, while my students are taking a test.
6pm to 9pm, US central time. If anyone wants to chat Traveller, I'd be
interested...
FYI: If you don't know, Brubeks is the online chat room at the new JTAS...
jtas.sjgames.com. You need to be a subscriber...
Andy Akins
________________________________________________________
True Communications Corporation Your Premier ISP.
"Hometown Service with Worldwide Connectivity"
http://www.truserve.com info@truserve.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 17:42:12 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: Re: warbots
Douglas Berry writes:
>>Program most of the robots to not enter buildings and to stay high
>>(perhaps 10 meters off of the ground). Outfit them with radios (as
>>backup) and Maser comms (for primary communication).
>I still own everything worth having then. Like cities, factories, the
>starport...
He did say "most of the robots," but your point is well taken.
Would it be practical to use a blanket of cheaper slave warbots
hovering at 5-50 m, with more expensive teams digging out the
resistence?
and Anthony Jackson writes:
>Anything you can see from 10 meters off the ground, you can see (and shoot)
>from orbit.
In the real world this may be true, but there is this Forward
Observer skill... (at least, there is in CT).
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 06:40:17 +0800
From: Nattrass
Subject: re: Warbots
At 05:16 PM 8/03/00 -0500, you wrote:
>Non-lethal weapons - in the _Divine Intervention_ Classic Traveller
>adventure (flip side to _Night of Conquest_, IIRC) the heroes are
>equipped with "stun carbines". Non-lethal, I think they were based
>on some frequency of sonics. I don't recall if they were 100% safe,
>but I do recall that they were worthless against someone in a vacc
>suit, battle dress or combat armor - but a tranq dart won't work well
>through any of these outfits either.
true, but never underestimate the stunning effect of a really bright light
at night time
the obvious problem is that a. it makes the light source a target for
someone with a grudge
and a ranged weapon, people with sunglasses are less effected, and it only
works at night
but there are advantages, a temporarily blinded opponent is a helpless opponent
plus the warbots can get named bright white knights... which is actually
more of a creamy beige colour or some other similar noxious pun
Dane
In my talons I shape clay.....
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 08:44:36 +1000
From: "Scout Harris"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2023
- --
On Wed, 08 Mar 2000 10:28:53 will richards wrote:
> Besides you missed the number one reason any game has gone "Down"
>The market right now supports Card games, and multi player online games.
>This has the effect of reducing the number of new RPGer's which it self has
>a spiraling affect. just look at the kids playing RPG's today, Not as many
>pre and young teens as there were in the 80's and early 90's.
>Definetly not the fault of the designers. Definetly not anything about
>Traveller itself.
I agree....... especially when it comes to multi-player online games!
My perception there has been a decline in Roleplaying in general. It seems the number of stores that sell roleplaying material has decreased (well at least here in Australia), and I think that this is due to a deceased interest in rooeplaying in general.
It's hard to say why, but my feeling is that roleplaying games had their heyday in the 80's and early nineties, the days when home computers were rare and a connection to the internet was rarer.
These days, kids, (oh.... and adults), can get what they regard as a better experience (visual effects, adrenalin rush, etc) from a computer than they can from buying a heap of books, reading them, collecting together some like minded individuals and playing with pen and paper and dice.
Still... I had a glow of pleasure last year, when after a party during a 'pick-up' game of traveller, (It was TNE by the way) a 16yo, who had never rolplayed before made the comment "This is better than a computer game, you get to *choose* to do anything!"
Maybe we should advertise in computer game magazines, have resources on CD (character constructors, ship designers, system designers etc) and sell the CD in the box with the books. Also have a server which will allow multi player online gaming so that I could play with some of you guys on the TML without having to leave Tasmania.
Ok... nuff daydreaming... the boss is on the prowl again!
Scout
Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 14:43:41
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Traveller Went Down?
At 01:53 PM 3/8/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>On Wed, 08 Mar 2000 13:38:52, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>> Dom, you even try it and you'll find yourself looking at the business end
>> of an Emperor Penguin...
>
>I thought penguins had *two* business ends?
The armor piercing one.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 14:46:22
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Warbots
At 02:24 PM 3/8/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>Sure they can be shielded; its just that the antenna needs to be outside of
>the shielding. This does mean you need to add some sort of surge suppressor
>in the antenna, but that's not impossible.
How big is that antenna? If it's bigger than about 6" x 6", I can hit it
from 500 meters.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 14:47:43
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Why Traveller still survives...
At 04:52 PM 3/8/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>This is the reason I stopped buying Battletech stuff after FASA decided to
>cater to the Munchkin crowd with the introduction of the Clans and all that
>other bullstuff...
I still read the novels, simply because they are well written, and I like
the setting. Kirsten's life goal is to become a noblewoman in House Kurita.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 14:53:18
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: warbots
At 05:42 PM 3/8/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry writes:
>>I still own everything worth having then. Like cities, factories, the
>>starport...
>
> He did say "most of the robots," but your point is well taken.
> Would it be practical to use a blanket of cheaper slave warbots
> hovering at 5-50 m, with more expensive teams digging out the
> resistence?
I defend one out of every 20 buildings. That building is a bloody fortress.
the other buildings have either booby traps, or one guy with a rifle to
force you to expend a lot of effort thinking that you've hit a pocket of
resitence.
All that's happened here is that the invader has traded the chance for a
direct military victory for an extended urban slugfest. Read up on
Stalingrad or the Battle of Hue (1968) to see how bloods such fights can
get. You also run the rsik of destroying any industrial resources you may
have come for.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 11:54:45 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: RE: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000 - Don't blame me for the subject line
On 8 Mar 00, at 21:33, Frank G. Pitt wrote:
> > I may be an outsider, but it sure looks to me as if the NZ government is
> > ignoring their defense responsibilities in order to save a few dollars.
>
> It's a socialist Greenie government, whaddaya expect ?
They'd be hard put to spend less on defense than the last government.
One of the reasons I left the TF was that our training involved less
and less field and range work and more and more drill and admin. It
atrted to get really hard to get on courses required for promotion
(JNCO, etc), too. They kept getting cancelled or postponed.
>
> They've just increased my tax to 39c in the dollar too.
>
> That's the problem with allowing the unemployed to vote, they'll
> always vote for the party that promises to take from the rich and
> give to the 'poor', and spend more on benefits for those that don't
> produce.
Yep. Let's have the last government who seemed to believe that it's
quite OK to run the economy in such a way that unemployment couldn't
drop below 6%, no matter how many of the dole bludgers actually tried
to find work, and then starve them for their sins.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 11:54:46 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
On 8 Mar 00, at 1:42, Steven Hudson wrote:
> >From: john hamilton
> >Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
> ...
> >EVERYTHING CAN AND MUST KEEP UP WITH SCIENCE.AND IF
> >YOU PRINT DIFFERENT EDITIONS EVERY FEW YEARS,NORMALY
> >THAT ISN'T A PROBLEM....
>
> Define "science", please - I know people who go into fits of
> laughter at the "popular" suggestion that nanotech is hard science; its
> not much more likely than some peoples beliefs in magic, faith healing, or
> papal infallibility.
I find it facinating that nano-tech is supposed to be smaller and more
capable than even to most wonderous bio-tech, and yet is unaffected by
radiation and nasty chemicals. Marvelous stuff that nanotech.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2026
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, March 8 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2027
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Psychological Effects of an Invasion (was: no ground troops)
Re: Soldiers
Re: Vargr and Aslan expansion(was:Re: The low jump number question)
Re: warbots
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
RE: warbots
Re: Psychological Effects of an Invasion (was: no ground troops)
Re: Wigram AFB (was RE: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000 - Don't blam e me for the subject line )
[OT] New Zealand's Defence Spending
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: What if . . .
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2023
Re: Why Traveller went down (to Georgia)
RE: Impact of Alternate FTL Ideas
Re: A DUNE LUG
Re: Warbots
Re: Traveller Went Down?
Re: warbots
Re: Vargr and Aslan expansion(was:Re: The low jump number question)
Traveller bites the dust?
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Soldiers
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 11:54:45 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Psychological Effects of an Invasion (was: no ground troops)
On 8 Mar 00, at 14:22, Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 3/8/00 4:43:54 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
> gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:
>
> << In the warbots and orbital scenario, the enemy remains faceless. Deep
> down,
> a good segment of the populace will not be able to accept defeat, because
> they never had the chance to fight! >>
>
> You have a point there... I wonder how history would have been changed if
> they hadn't signed the WWI armistace until they had invaded Germany. This
> would have eliminated the "we were never defeated on the battlefield; the
> German Army was stabbed in the back" excuse...
But not the "We were humiliated by the agreement that was forced on us"
one. Or the "These war reparations are destroying our country and the
German people" one.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 11:54:45 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Soldiers
On 8 Mar 00, at 10:49, Chris Dixon wrote:
> >Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 17:32:24 -0800 (PST)
> >From: Ray Wiberg
> >Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2016
>
> >Or that elite unit of happy Belgian paratroopers, who roasted folks on
> >fires and urinated on them...Somalia was an eyeopener for concerning UN
>
> >forces.
>
> >A soldier is a soldier...
>
> >Ray
>
> As a former US Marine who proudly served in Desert storm I take great
> umbrage at the comparison between so called "soldiers" who burn
> non-combatants alive and urinate on their smouldering bodies and the
> "professional" soldiers that serve with dignity and honor in many nations
> throughout the world.
>
> A group of armed thugs are not necessarily soldiers, no matter who's
> flag they happen to be wearing.
I disagree. They are soldiers, just very bad ones (by today's western
standards).
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 11:54:45 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Vargr and Aslan expansion(was:Re: The low jump number question)
On 8 Mar 00, at 19:48, Ingo Heinscher wrote:
> >The Aslans just don't expand very quickly, at least not when they have to
> >cross the Great Rift to do it. They first crossed the GF around -1000 and
> >3000 years later they still don't cover more than about 13 subsectors
> >worth. And that includes all the scattered Aslan splinter states.
>
> But according to their culture (obesession of land possession) shouldn't
> they expand at a marvellous rate? Their population density wouldn't be
> high, of course, but they should be _spread_. Why aren't they much more?
> Any suggestions, anyone?
Because if you can take over an existing colony you have a much more
valuable possession than if you claim an empty planet. And it's quite
possibly cheaper to conquer a close by existing colony than prove your
own.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 11:54:45 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: warbots
On 8 Mar 00, at 9:22, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Ian Ferguson writes:
> >
> > >Master-slave units are not viable unless every warbot has a meson comm.
> > >Jamming is much too easy.
> >
> > This should often be a problem. Has anyone come up with some
> > ideas to get around jamming (other than meson comm)?
>
> You give it a proper AI, and to heck with the Shudusham Accords. Or you
> only use the warbots for light duty. Jamming isn't the only problem,
> being a constant emitter also makes you a wonderfully easy to find
target.
But now we're talking about TL17+ (or Virus) :)
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 11:54:45 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
On 8 Mar 00, at 2:33, john hamilton wrote:
> Normaly I avoid to repeat myself,but:
> When somebody has to resort to crticize your style
> instead of your content,he more or less admitts that
> your right.
This is good, coming from someone who called a dissenter a snob for
being a dissenter. Right on, keep it up.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 11:54:45 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: RE: warbots
On 8 Mar 00, at 10:46, Ian Ferguson wrote:
> Anthony Jackson write:
>
> >Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2016
>
> Tsk, tsk.
>
>
> >Master-slave units are not viable unless every warbot has a meson comm.
> >Jamming is much too easy.
>
> This should often be a problem. Has anyone come up with some
> ideas to get around jamming (other than meson comm)?
Yeah. Use humans and just shout to one and another :)
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 11:54:46 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Psychological Effects of an Invasion (was: no ground troops)
On 8 Mar 00, at 8:35, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> Not that for Traveller, this only applies to humans. The Vargr would also
> probably follow this model, and the Aslan, but I have no idea how this
> would apply to the K'Kree or Hivers. --
IMO the Vargr would be more likely to capitulate after a good show of
force, provided there was a charismatic figure on the other side to
change over to.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 11:54:46 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Wigram AFB (was RE: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000 - Don't blam e me for the subject line )
On 8 Mar 00, at 9:05, Smith, Walter wrote:
> If it is true that the soldiery of NZ and her allies have done their
> jobs so well that this particular sword *can* be safely beaten into a
> plowshare, then IMO it is the very opposite of an insult that it will be
> turned into a place where people raise children instead of man the walls.
>
> Of course, if it is still needed as a sword, never mind.
Well sending our troops away on peacekeeping missions seems popular
with the punters. Mind you so does a defense budget of nil (until
there's a need for search and rescue, fishery protection, disaster
relief, peacekeeping, etc).
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 11:54:45 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: [OT] New Zealand's Defence Spending
On 8 Mar 00, at 14:01, Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, 5 Mar 2000 21:08:42 +1100
> Ian Whitchurch wrote:
>
> >It is possibly apocryphal, but Rommel is said to have said at one point
> >that he would take Australians as assault troops, but for the all-around
> >best troops he would pick New Zealanders. Incidentally, they are having a
> >good long think about their armed forces at the moment, and are thinking
> >about a military based around patrol boats and a couple of Army
> >battalions for peacekeeping.
>
> You're not wrong there. I'm just back from a trip to New Zealand, and I
> got a shock when I went to visit Wigram AFB (on the south island), their
> oldest airbase.
>
> It's being sold off as a housing estate.
>
> Not only that, but most of their attack aircraft are now based in Nowra
> (AUSTRALIA). None of their military aircraft are based in the south island
> at all. Also, they intend to keep their Orion aircraft flying until they
> are retired in 25 years time, by which time they will be 60 YEARS OLD!
>
> The Air Force had plans to purchase new fighters, but the government looks
> likely to cancel that because of the cost.
It's not actually because of the cost (though it's true that they
are/were going to be expensive), but because the purchase makes little
sense. F16s are about as much use to New Zealand as tits on a Bull.
What we need are new A4 Skyhawks, but failing that FA18s would probably
be the best choice.
> I may be an outsider, but it sure looks to me as if the NZ government is
> ignoring their defense responsibilities in order to save a few dollars.
That would be an accurate summary of the last government's actions. The
new government is making the right noises, but whether they'll back
that up with money is a different matter. There used to be a syaing
that while Labour (the new government, though in coalition) hated
spending money on defence, and National (old government) made all the
right noises, in actual fact Labour spent more money on defence because
everyone watched it like a hawk. Certainly in the last nine years
National has lived up to that - defence spending has dropped in dollar
terms, even before allowing for inflation, so it's no wonder the
Aussies are getting annoyed.
As for our Navy - we probably will get Patrol Boats - it's just the
sort of dumb ass thing that accountants think is good economics. Anyone
who thinks that Patrol Boats can be of any use for disaster relief in
the Pacific needs their head read, and as for fishery protection - have
a look at some footage of the Southern Ocean sometime, and then imagine
what those waves would do to some pathetic little tin can. We need at
least three frigates, but we probably won't get to do more than keep
the two we've already got.
However I agree totally with the government that the Air Force and Navy
can wait until somethings done about the Army's equipment.
The New Zealand Army has been mainly Light Infantry for quite some time
(mainly because it's cheap), but there's light and there's light. We
didn't have _any_ anti aircraft weapons until recently (we now have
some "man potable" AA missiles). Our anti-tank weapons consisted of M72
LAWs and a few 106mm Recoiless Guns.
The Gunners use British 105mm Light Guns, but they had US tubes and we
used US ammo, because we had all this US ammo. This gives less range,
lower accuracy and reduces the arc over which the gun can fire, but is
economocal. The theory was that if we went into action we'd replace the
tubes with new British ones, but according to some Gunners I was with
we didn't have the tubes.
BTW we're replacing our old M113's, with LAV's IIRC, and it looks like
we'll have enough to mechanize one or both battalions of regular
grunts. All in all I'd say that we might get an decent Army out of the
new government, if not a good Air Force or Navy.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 11:54:46 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
On 8 Mar 00, at 10:10, Bill Dunn wrote:
> Wow, lots of thin skins on this list lately. For what it's worth, I didn't
> see the original post as a troll at all. I disagree with the post that
> there are 4 failed editions of Traveller. I would consider that there are
> 2, however. There's been plenty of talk about T4 being a failure so I'd
> like to put in my $.02 about TNE being a failure. Granted GDW went down
> for various reasons not related to the performance of one game and also
> granted that any significant change to a system is going to lose a certain
> percentage of grognards who prefer the old mechanics/setting/whatever. The
> success of the game has to be measured in how well it wins over old
> players and brings in new blood. For TNE, at least in this area (southern
> Wisconsin), I saw nothing that suggested success and more signs that
> signaled failure. The direction TNE went lost the support of Digest Group
> Publications who, as I saw it, did more for the expansion of MT than GDW
> did. The third-party support pool was suddenly gone. The anecdotal
> evidence around here about why TNE never took off among players includes a
> few things: 1) setting - the 3rd Imperium offered lots more varied types
> of scenarios than the 'imperialism in the frontier' setting of non-Regency
> TNE, 2) the space opera feel of Traveller was lost with too much emphasis
> on science as we currently understand it rather than science as it could
> be understood circa 5000 CE, 3) the game, already highly militarized,
> became even more so in both mechanics and style, turning off a lot of
> players. Of course, fierce competition for game-buying dollars from
> Vampire and Magic sure didn't help things any. Magic's impact on the game
> market was ridiculous. What do you think caused TSR's cashflow problems
> and bankruptcy?
From what I've heard poor sales of their novels, which were returnable,
unlike prgs.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 17:58:23 -0500
From: "Josh W. Spencer"
Subject: Re: What if . . .
Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
> You'd have a totally different game. Speed of communication (via
> Xboats) would be such that only the sheer *amount* of information would
> impede strong central control. And governments have always been good at
> ignoring "irrelevant" information.
>
> It'd change the trading picture beyond recognition as well.
It would also depend on what era you introduce this type of jump theory in.
I'd much rather not muck with the OTU history up to 1116, and THEN have some
PC group attend to their Patron's Last Will and Testament, which happens to
include a ship that does all these things the rest of the universe can't. Of
course they would be On The Run for the rest of their lives once the word
gets out.
- --
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)
VILANI ALIAS: Iashir Rekiinikimas Uiagam
Ypsilanti, Michigan, North America, Terra
Sol Subsector, Solomani Rim Sector
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 14:59:59 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2023
On Thu, 09 Mar 2000 08:44:36 +1000, Scout Harris wrote:
> roleplaying material has decreased (well at least here in Australia),
> and I think that this is due to a deceased interest in rooeplaying in
> general. ^^^
You know, that little typo *almost* works based on where you live :)
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
I'd love to, but I've dedicated my life to linguini.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 16:03:52 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Why Traveller went down (to Georgia)
Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
> Bucky*balls* make for a lousy hull. Composites incorporating
> bucky*tubes*, ought to be quite strong. About as strong as is
> physically possible.
I always thought that thats what the advanced composite hull materials
were...
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 18:06:17 -0500
From: "Garcia, Abel"
Subject: RE: Impact of Alternate FTL Ideas
- -----Original Message-----
From: Zane H. Healy [mailto:healyzh@aracnet.com]
Travel through a Wormhole is almost instantanious, which means you've
actually got FTL communications between systems. The message has to travel
from the source to the wormhole, and then be couriered through on a ship.
For planets not connected via Wormhole you've still got the comm lag.
Of course trying to take a region of space the size of the Imperium and
calculate which systems have wormholes and where they connect (not even
taking into account those that go to uncharted space) would be enough to
drive a person crazy :^)
Zane
I like the Imperial Secret idea for "wormholes". As far as where to connect
them, well you could connect all known Ancients' sites and/or Red Zones
Zane. I would make it so that only small, inanimate, objects could travel
through these "unknown" wormholes without destruction; perhaps you could
only use certain containers built by the Ancients...
Abel
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 00:05:30 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Re: A DUNE LUG
Keith Johnson wrote:
> Despite licensing problems that have held up printing the book, DUNE:
> Chronicles of the Imperium should be released late March/ early
> April.
This is one of the worst news I have received in a long time (at least
from an economic point of view). ;-)
> My understanding is that Dune is going to use a modified version of
> the Icon system. As I could care less about roleplaying in the Star
> Trek universe, I am waiting for LUG to finally print and distribute
> Dune.
What kind of system is the Icon system? I have not played any of the
games that LUG produce, so I'm kind of lost here...
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 15:11:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: Warbots
Douglas E. Berry writes:
> At 02:24 PM 3/8/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>
> >Sure they can be shielded; its just that the antenna needs to be outside
> >of the shielding. This does mean you need to add some sort of surge
> >suppressor in the antenna, but that's not impossible.
>
> How big is that antenna? If it's bigger than about 6" x 6", I can hit it
> from 500 meters.
Depends on what its for. The part outside the shielding is probably the same
side as any normal radio antenna, the antenna itself isn't particularly
vulnerable to EMP, it's the receiver which is vulnerable to EMP, and it's
going to be inside of armor with wires connecting it to the antenna.
Note that _all_ radio antenna need to be outside of the armor on an armored
vehicle, EMP shielding or no. An armored vehicle which isn't designed right
might not prevent surges from damaging electronics, but it does a fine
job of preventing radio from getting in and out and remaining understandable.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 23:06:21 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: Traveller Went Down?
At 16:52 -0500 8/3/00, "Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
> >And writing more stuff for it - ohmigawd, it's dead? I'd better tell
> >Andy to leave ACQ at the 50 copies we've produced so far and forget
> >GenCon this year...
>
>Dom, you even try it and you'll find yourself looking at the business end
>of an Emperor Penguin...
;-)
But if it's true then it's a dead Emperor Penguin - the Zombie
Revenant Emperor Penguin Strephon, controlled by the
Arch-Inquisitor-Maximus Berry of the Reformed Canon Church of
Sylea....
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 14:28:36 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: warbots
In mail you write:
> Ian Ferguson wrote:
>
>>Anthony Jackson write:
>
>>>Master-slave units are not viable unless every warbot has a
>>>meson comm. Jamming is much too easy.
>
>> This should often be a problem. Has anyone come up with some
>> ideas to get around jamming (other than meson comm)?
>
> Program most of the robots to not enter buildings and to stay high
> (perhaps 10 meters off of the ground). Outfit them with radios (as
> backup) and Maser comms (for primary communication).
>
> The only way to stop the maser comm is to interpose something
> between the robot and the maser source. If you are broadcasting
> from a network of orbital satellites (since we are already assuming
> you hold orbit) attackers are going to need to cover the robot in
> thick goo, metallic cloth or something similar. Even then, the radio
> will get through unless they are also using a jammer.
Not really. The maser signal will be *completely* blocked by a
conductive mesh with holes smaller than the wavelength being used.
Which means ordinary *metal* window screening will work down to around
1mm wavelength, and aluminized mylar will work for *all* wavelengths.
Throw an emergency blanket of aluminized mylar around the robot and you
block the radio too.
Or just wrap it in aluminum foil. :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 14:34:45 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Vargr and Aslan expansion(was:Re: The low jump number question)
In mail you write:
> At 01:28 08.03.00 +0100, you wrote:
>>Ingo Heinscher writes:
>>
>>>And the Aslan were mostly stopped in their spherical expansion by Solomani
>>>and the Great Rift (though this doesn't explain why the Aslan have not
>>>seized much more territory beyond Charted space... but perhaps they have,
>>>and map just don't show that, or these clans are not part of the Hierate).
>>
>>The Aslans just don't expand very quickly, at least not when they have to
>>cross the Great Rift to do it. They first crossed the GF around -1000 and
>>3000 years later they still don't cover more than about 13 subsectors worth.
>>And that includes all the scattered Aslan splinter states.
>
> But according to their culture (obesession of land possession) shouldn't
> they expand at a marvellous rate? Their population density wouldn't be
> high, of course, but they should be _spread_. Why aren't they much more?
> Any suggestions, anyone?
No matter how much they *want* land, they still need the people and
equipment to occupy and use it. Which sets a limit on their rate of
expansion. They can only expand as fast as the resources can be spared
to "take" new land.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 18:22:02 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Traveller bites the dust?
Spring break is here and I'm back on the list for a few days. A little bird
told me that there was a flamewar of epic proportions brewing, and I just
had to be here. I've read over the archives, and have a general response to
some of the things being tossed about:
1.) The venerable Doug Berry made the claim that TSR no longer existed, and
was absorbed by WotC.
Yes and no. TSR is a subsidiary of Wizards of the Coast. It has its own
corporate structure and last I checked (about a month ago) TSR's RPG
products were still being published under the TSR imprint.
So yes, Virginia, there is a TSR.
2.) Chauncey Smith made the claim that WotC bought TSR simply for the
licensing opportunities, not to keep the game going.
Patently untrue. WotC bought up TSR, kicked out the old guard and replaced
them with people who have since remained extremely faithful to TSR's
roleplaying products. The "new" TSR has launched attempts to win back older
players and has tried, for the most part successfully, to keep current
players in the hobby.
Recent TSR releases have been some of the best products that company has
produced since the golden age of roleplaying. Call me crazy, but these
activities don't seem to be the actions of a company which is interested
only in licensing the product for Magic supplements (which hasn't even
happened at this point anyway).
TSR is also rising to the challenge and making a strong attempt to win over
computer game players with a good deal of success by licensing their game
worlds and rules to competent companies. SJG tried this with Fallout, but it
unfortunately fell through.
This is a really good thing for the roleplaying hobby / industry as a whole.
3.) A number of people have been implicitly or explicitly pointing the
finger at CCGs as the reasoning behind the moribund state of RPGs during the
mid to late 90s. I disagree, and have disagreed on this list at great
length. It's much more interesting (and helpful) to point out the
factionalized nature of small RPG companies, rising book printing prices and
the lack of an effective distribution network for up and coming RPG
companies.
The factionalized nature of RPG companies and fans is, in my estimation, the
biggest problem that RPGs face in this new renaissance. Egos of RPG fans and
personalities frequently run rampant leaving rifts and scars which seem to
never heal. RPG fans see themselves all too often as evangelists --
sometimes even crusaders -- this is a serious problem in the industry which
no one ever even *brings up*, let alone confronts.
This flaw appears from time to time in other hobbies and industries and
almost always drives people away. Look at all the finger pointing that this
discussion has generated better yet, subscribe to an RPG newsgroup for a
week or two.
Unfortunately, we look like complete idiots to the outside world, not to
mention prospective hobbyists. This whole recent brewing flamewar
illustrates this point quite nicely, in my opinion.
Put up or shut up and stop whining. A hobby is only as good as its fan base
and any rational outside observer sees absolute lunacy and it's not because
we pretend to be elves, mutants and interstellar merchants, either. It has
more to do with the fact that we act like spoiled idiot children.
(How's that for a return to the list message?)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 17:23:21 -0600
From: Bill Dunn
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
According to a local retailer, so many distributors and stores were trying
to make a lot of money with Magic sales and tied up lots of cash in
preorders. When the first major slow-down hit Magic, a lot of them found
they couldn't return the orders. With their cash tied up, they couldn't pay
anyone else, like TSR. TSR, in turn, couldn't pay its printer and thus get
product out to the customers (including Dragon magazine which was out for
several months). It was a pretty vicious cycle.
It's my impression that the fiction wing of the company wasn't the cause of
the cash problems.
Mandatory Traveller Content:
Now that's a complexity in the economy you'd never see in a Traveller game.
Too convoluted.
Anyone try playing Ambrosia Software's Escape Velocity? Boy does that play
like some early Traveller campaigns I've participated in. Proof that a
computer game can be an enjoyable, Traveller-like experience.
At 14:34 -0500 8/3/00, Bill Dunn wrote:
>Of course, fierce competition for game-buying dollars from Vampire and
Magic
>sure didn't help things any. Magic's impact on the game market was
>ridiculous. What do you think caused TSR's cashflow problems and
bankruptcy?
Over-investment in books (fiction) which did not sell and were placed
into the supply chain on a sale or return basis. ?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 15:27:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Ray Wiberg
Subject: Re: Soldiers
> > >Or that elite unit of happy Belgian paratroopers, who roasted folks on
> > >fires and urinated on them...Somalia was an eyeopener for concerning UN
> >
> > >forces.
> >
> > >A soldier is a soldier...
> >
> > >Ray
> >
> > As a former US Marine who proudly served in Desert storm I take great
> > umbrage at the comparison between so called "soldiers" who burn
> > non-combatants alive and urinate on their smouldering bodies and the
> > "professional" soldiers that serve with dignity and honor in many nations
> > throughout the world.
> >
> > A group of armed thugs are not necessarily soldiers, no matter who's
> > flag they happen to be wearing.
>
> I disagree. They are soldiers, just very bad ones (by today's western
> standards).
>
My point was this, while there are many soldiers who serve with
distinction and honor, there are also many who in ugly situations do ugly
things (not to mention those who are merely bordering on or are firm
psychos). History shows us over and over again, from the troops of Xerxes,
to the carpet bombing of cities on *both sides* of WWII, to "Peace
Keeping" missions in Somalia, or even Kosovo.
Some people have funny concepts concerning concerning war. It's a nasty
(if necessary) thing. There is mounting evidence of the U.S. using anthrax
(placed on turkey feathers in leaflet bombs) in the "Korean War", despite
the ban on the use of such things (just an example of gov't dupliucity
versus singular), not to mention the slaughter of civilans that occured
in Korea and Vietnam.
So I'm sorry if you take great umbrage to my former statement, it is
however valid IMO. When people are under tremendous stress and life and
limb are at risk, they can (and sometimes do) become capable of atrocity,
whether they are UN, NATO, Soviet, Viet Cong, Khmer Rouge, etc.
Ray
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2027
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, March 8 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2028
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: FYI: GT Solomani Rim Book in Playtest
Re: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000 - Don't blame me for the subject line
Re: Warbots
Re: Vargr and Aslan expansion(was:Re: The low jump number question)
Re: warbots
Re: Traveller bites the dust?
Re: warbots
Re: Dune
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2023
Re: warbots
Re: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000 - Don't blame me for the subject line
Re: Traveller bites the dust?
Re: Traveller dead? - a clarification
Re: warbots
re: Traveller bites the dust?
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2023
Question about Odd System Configurations
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Psychological Effects of an Invasion (was: no ground troops)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 18:26:27 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: Re: FYI: GT Solomani Rim Book in Playtest
Is GT starships in play test as well...I'm looking forward to that one...
Who wore GT: Rim of Fire? Just curious...
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 12:26:39 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000 - Don't blame me for the subject line
On 8 Mar 00, at 13:34, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> In mail you write:
> > Not to mention the social responsibilty all us working types have to
> > those less fortunate than us. Unemployed people deserve quality of life,
> > not just mere subsistance.
>
> I've come to the conclusion that in spite of all the talk about
> switching to a "sevice based" economy, what's *really* going to have to
> happen is the recognition that in a modern, industrialized socity with
> *automation*, there often *won't* be enough jobs to go around. So we
> either try for government "make work" projects (like the Depression era
> CCC and other such things) or we need to remove the stigma from "welfare"
> and quit pretending that it's for "losers".
Back to Roman times :) It seems to a be little known fact, but full
employment is a modern phenomena.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 12:26:39 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Warbots
On 8 Mar 00, at 13:16, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> > Actually, MT and TNE both have completely safe, totally non-lethal tranq
> > darts. From the MT, Player's Manual pp. 94-95, dosage controlled
> > non-lethal agents:
> >
> > "Non-lethal agents consist of two types: dose-controlled (available at
> > tech code Avg Stellar +) and standard. With dose controlled agents, the
> > damage points accumulate once the unconsciousness level is reached; any
> > further tranq damage beyond the unconscious level is ignored. With
> > standard agents, the tranq damage is temporary, but it can go beyond the
> > unconscious level. If the death level is reached, the character or
> > animal dies from an overdose of tranq."
>
> I missed that. And those "dose controlled" rounds are nothing other
> than *magic*, but...
>
> Even so, consider what happens if the tranq round strikes someone in
> the face or other easily damaged area. I recall an SF story that had
> this sort of "non-lethal, absolutely safe" tranq gun. And a pissed off cop
> blinded the hero by emptying a clip into his face.
>
> Now, admittedly, the robots will aim to minimize this, but the fact is,
> targets *move*, and once the round leaves the barrel, it's too late.
And TNE's aren't that safe. They do 1D6-1 damage, not a lot until you
hit someone with low End in the head. What's more a head or cheat hit
could still give an instant kill.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 15:33:53 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: Vargr and Aslan expansion(was:Re: The low jump number question)
On Wed, 08 Mar 2000 19:48:02 +0100, Ingo Heinscher wrote:
> >The Aslans just don't expand very quickly, at least not when they have to
> >cross the Great Rift to do it. They first crossed the GF around -1000 and
> >3000 years later they still don't cover more than about 13 subsectors worth.
> >And that includes all the scattered Aslan splinter states.
>
> But according to their culture (obesession of land possession) shouldn't
> they expand at a marvellous rate? Their population density wouldn't be
> high, of course, but they should be _spread_. Why aren't they much more?
> Any suggestions, anyone?
The Aslan don't just take land from unclaimed worlds outside the Hierate--
they take it from Aslans *within* the Hierate that aren't fit to keep it.
I'm pretty sure there is a canonical reference to this. GURPS Alien Races
2 does state, however, that only about 28% of Aslan are actually land
owners.
Likewise, the Aslan have only been in space for less than a third the time
the Vilani have. I think they've done pretty well for themselves
considering the size of the Hierate.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
I'd love to, but I've dedicated my life to linguini.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 15:35:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: warbots
Rupert Boleyn writes:
> > You give it a proper AI, and to heck with the Shudusham Accords. Or you
> > only use the warbots for light duty. Jamming isn't the only problem,
> > being a constant emitter also makes you a wonderfully easy to find
> target.
>
> But now we're talking about TL17+ (or Virus) :)
Nah, I don't mean artificial sentience. Just decent semi-autonomous decision
making; dogbrains are plenty. Probably TL 12 or so. Bear in mind
the Shudusham Accords wouldn't exist unless there was something to react to...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 12:37:28 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Traveller bites the dust?
On 8 Mar 00, at 18:22, Chris Seamans wrote:
> Spring break is here and I'm back on the list for a few days. A little
> bird told me that there was a flamewar of epic proportions brewing, and I
> just had to be here. I've read over the archives, and have a general
> response to some of the things being tossed about:
>
> 1.) The venerable Doug Berry made the claim that TSR no longer existed,
> and was absorbed by WotC.
>
> Yes and no. TSR is a subsidiary of Wizards of the Coast. It has its own
> corporate structure and last I checked (about a month ago) TSR's RPG
> products were still being published under the TSR imprint.
I hear that this is not to be the case with D&D3, but my source can't
be considered reliable.
> This flaw appears from time to time in other hobbies and industries and
> almost always drives people away. Look at all the finger pointing that
> this discussion has generated better yet, subscribe to an RPG newsgroup
> for a week or two.
Funnily enough at this point in time rec.games.frp.misc is more
civilised there here.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 12:40:12 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: warbots
On 8 Mar 00, at 15:35, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Rupert Boleyn writes:
>
> > > You give it a proper AI, and to heck with the Shudusham Accords. Or
> > > you only use the warbots for light duty. Jamming isn't the only
> > > problem, being a constant emitter also makes you a wonderfully easy to
> > > find
> > target.
> >
> > But now we're talking about TL17+ (or Virus) :)
>
> Nah, I don't mean artificial sentience. Just decent semi-autonomous
> decision making; dogbrains are plenty. Probably TL 12 or so. Bear in
> mind the Shudusham Accords wouldn't exist unless there was something to
> react to...
In that case TL12 is certainly plenty. The Terrans are noted for having
used them in the Interstellar Wars period, with a maximum TL of 12
(unless you're Leroy or it's a T4 space suit).
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 15:12:46 -0800
From: Keith Johnson
Subject: Re: Dune
>Keith Johnson wrote:
> > Despite licensing problems that have held up printing the book, DUNE:
> > Chronicles of the Imperium should be released late March/ early
> > April.
>
>This is one of the worst news I have received in a long time (at least
>from an economic point of view). ;-)
"It is by roleplaying games alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the
new releases that thoughts acquire speed, the campaign acquires change, and
the sessions promote excitement. It is by roleplaying games alone I set my
mind in motion."
- -- The Mentat GM's Handbook
>What kind of system is the Icon system? I have not played any of the
>games that LUG produce, so I'm kind of lost here...
I can't speak with any accuracy on the subject, since I don't own any of
the non-FASA Trek books.
From what I understand, in the Icon system you choose archetypes for your
race (Vulcan, Betazoid, Human, Tribble, ect...) and then another archetype
for your class/job/career (Helmsman, Smuggler, Klingon Painstick Tester,
ect...). After "overlaying" the two archetypes, you get X amount of points
to individualize the character and you are ready to play.
_____________________________________________________________
Rev. Keith Johnson /\ keith@sjgames.com
Assistant Webmaster /()\ keithalanjohnson@home.com
Steve Jackson Games /____\ reverendkeith@hotmail.com
Everything you do is Zen -- Bodhidharma
_____________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 18:52:25 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2023
From: Scout Harris
> I agree....... especially when it comes to multi-player online games!
Tabletop RPGs must learn to make inroads with the computer gaming market in
order to survive. High quality licensed computer games serve as teasers.
Interplay got lots of requests after Fallout came out for a pen and paper
version of the game. Baldur's Gate, an extremely popular computer game based
on the AD&D property, has won plenty of pen and paper converts.
> My perception there has been a decline in Roleplaying in general.
In the last few years there's been something of a renaissance in tabletop
RPGs.
> It seems the number of stores that sell roleplaying material has
> decreased (well at least here in Australia), and I think that this is due
> to a deceased interest in rooeplaying in general.
Here in Philly I've seen more shelf-space devoted to RPGs and more variety
in RPG materials. I've heard from other Australian types that distribution
in your country has decreased severely.
> It's hard to say why, but my feeling is that roleplaying games had
> their heyday in the 80's and early nineties, the days when home
> computers were rare and a connection to the internet was rarer.
The early to mid 90s was the worst period for RPGs. TSR was on its last legs
as an independent company and was plagued by extremely bad management, the
cost to produce a game went up due to rising paper costs (a number of
magazines went under in this period as well) and hobby shops started to
disappear left and right, which was a death blow to established distribution
networks.
> These days, kids, (oh.... and adults), can get what they regard as a
> better experience (visual effects, adrenalin rush, etc) from a
> computer than they can from buying a heap of books, reading them,
> collecting together some like minded individuals and playing with
> pen and paper and dice.
Adult roleplayers have always had real problems. The jump from being a child
roleplayer to being an adult roleplayer has always been plagued by the
college and young adult years. Work and school schedules, as well as social
commitments, make the logistics of getting a group together very difficult.
Note that the dawn of the internet also brought with it lots of
finger-pointing, name calling and childish crusades. The nasty underbelly of
the roleplaying hobby, previously only visible whenever large groups of
roleplayers got together, and then only in small doses, suddenly came to
light. Infighting between companies and between fans became public
spectacles on Usenet. Disgruntled gamers suddenly had the opportunity to
communicate their paranoid fantasies to the whole world. They are still
doing so to this day, to this very moment.
> Still... I had a glow of pleasure last year, when after a party during a
> 'pick-up' game of traveller, (It was TNE by the way) a 16yo, who had
> never rolplayed before made the comment "This is better than a
> computer game, you get to *choose* to do anything!"
Rockin'!
> Maybe we should advertise in computer game magazines, have
> resources on CD (character constructors, ship designers, system
> designers etc) and sell the CD in the box with the books. Also have
> a server which will allow multi player online gaming so that I could
> play with some of you guys on the TML without having to leave
> Tasmania.
>
> Ok... nuff daydreaming... the boss is on the prowl again!
It's not daydreaming. TSR is already forging ahead with many of these ideas.
The Core Rules CDs have been quite popular. The nifty Dragon Archive CD set
has also been extremely popular. The "new" TSR is busy building bridges with
competent computer game publishers to forge a new market. Steve Jackson
Games currently has two online magazines, one of which is *the* news source
for the RPG hobby industry and so on, and so on.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 16:02:10 -0800
From: sneadj@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: warbots
Anthony Jackson wrote:
>Anything you can see from 10 meters off the ground, you can see
>(and shoot) from orbit.
(sound of John slapping himself in the head). Yep, and that would
be an obvious part of the strategy. Broadcast propaganda, dropped
warbots, and a network of laser sats in low orbit (2-500 km up).
Given that facial recognition is now possible from low orbit, the sats
could be used to target any military facilities and any large military
hardware. In case of doubt (ie camouflage), drop some cheap
warbots to act as forward observers, and blast anything they see.
Modern sensor tech is *very* good and only going to get better.
You have hit all of the obvious targets, use the robots to mop up.
Since the robots can get orbit laser backup any time it is needed,
they will be even more effective. As things progress, the sats can
be used to track suspected rebels. This won't work as well in a
culture which wears hats a lot, but if they don't then anyone
wearing a hat when it's not cold or raining is a suspect, and can be
scanned by a bot.
In real-life at anything approaching these TLs you would also air
drop millions of tiny, sticky, cheap networked AV cams (say things
the size of a large rice grain [something we will likely have quite
soon]) and send out lots of fly-sized minirobots with cameras and
microphones (these are being built as we speak). With that level of
surveillance rebellion is *very* difficult. Sure, you can jam, but
jamming an area would naturally be a crime and is easy to detect
and localize. If any of the stories of what the NSA are doing now
are true, then in a few decades this sort of thing will be *far* too
easy in any first world society.
Wrt antennas and surge supressors on warbots, if the antennas
are flat spirals on the robots upper surface they are going to be
really hard to shoot off. The new cellphone antennas are
essentially bits of circuit board inside the phone. Stick the
antennas inside the armor (but outside the faraday cage protecting
the rest of the robot from an EMP) and stick on a surge supressor
and now the antenna is as hard to take out as the robot itself.
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 16:02:10 -0800
From: sneadj@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000 - Don't blame me for the subject line
shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>I've come to the conclusion that in spite of all the talk about
>switching to a "sevice based" economy, what's *really* going to
>have to happen is the recognition that in a modern, industrialized
>socity with *automation*, there often *won't* be enough jobs to go
>around. So we either try for government "make work" projects
>(like the Depression era CCC and other such things) or we need
>to remove the stigma from "welfare" and quit pretending that it's
>for "losers".
Yep, I fully agree. Given that consumer purchases drive modern
economies, the answer would be to give *everyone* a minimum
income. For more than that you would need to work, but the
minimum should be both freely given (ie not like current draconian
and demeaning welfare programs) and enough to allow a moderate
standard of living (lower middle class not dire poverty).
>>ob trav: However, this has got me thinking about creating a world
>>with a democracy where the number of votes you have is
>>determined by how much you earn. However, your earnings
>>be taxable income. Welfare exists, but you lose your vote for the
>> number of years that you are on welfare. Which means that in
>>a twisted way some of the rich autocrats see advantage in
>>having a generous welfare system to encourage less people to
>>vote, hearby giving them a greater controlling vote......... this
>>idea develops as I write it.... I'll get back to the list if it goes
>>somewhere!
>This gets *really* unbalanced, really fast.
Agreed, I would expect it to lead to something not too different from
slavery for those folks denied their vote.
>On the other hand, tie the votes to the *taxes* you pay, and it gets
>more interesting. Everybody gets one vote. Taxes are "flat rate" at,
>say, 10%. You get an extra vote for every extra 1% of taxes you
>pay.
>This way you can swing an election a few times, but trying to keep
>doing it will bankrupt you. But your extra tax contributions will help
>keep taxes low!
I'd go more like 2-5%/ extra vote, but I really like this idea. The rich
get more power (just like everywhere else) but they directly pay for
the privilege. Instead of merely paying politicians and lobbyists,
they can also contribute directly to the common good.
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 15:24:25 -0800
From: Keith Johnson
Subject: Re: Traveller bites the dust?
At 06:26 PM 3/8/00 -0500, you wrote:
>From: "Chris Seamans"
>Subject: Traveller bites the dust?
>
>1.) The venerable Doug Berry made the claim that TSR no longer existed, and
>was absorbed by WotC.
>
>Yes and no. TSR is a subsidiary of Wizards of the Coast. It has its own
>corporate structure and last I checked (about a month ago) TSR's RPG
>products were still being published under the TSR imprint.
>
>So yes, Virginia, there is a TSR.
Pick up a book in a couple months and see if you notice the TSR logo on it.
WotC *is* phasing the TSR imprint out. Ryan Dancey (the WotC VP in charge
of everything that is related to Dungeons & Dragons) has publicly mentioned
this in several places, including in the Pyramid discussion groups. He
also mentioned that WotC is petitioning Hasbro to eliminate the WotC logo
and simply have a Hasbro imprint on every book. However, it seems that
Hasbo doesn't plan on following through on that.
_________________________________________________________
Rev. Keith Johnson /\ keith@sjgames.com
Assistant Webmaster /()\ keithalanjohnson@home.com
Steve Jackson Games /____\ reverendkeith@hotmail.com
"I choose you, Dullinor!" - PokeTrav Master
IMTU tm++@ t4+@ tg++$ ru- ge-@ st+ pi+ he+ dr+ hi-@ zh+
_________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 00:07:49 GMT
From: "Boris Cibic"
Subject: Re: Traveller dead? - a clarification
Mr. Berry wrote:
>Many on the list tend to take my comments the wrong way. What I am calling
>for is a Traveller Rennaisance which would akin to the CT era and early MT.
Which is already being done, thanks to the Classic reprint project.
Please continue to read...
>When there was tons of Traveller items not only those produced by GDW but
>by
>all sorts of independents. We can make it happen again now that we have
>the
>resources of the WEB at our fingertips. The real secret would be make a
>game which incorporates the best of this grand 23 yr tradition.
Talk to Marc. He owns the game. He controls to licence. If Marc were to
tell me to take down every Traveller reference on The Silly Era, I'd have
no choice but to comply.
The Rennaisance ought not to mean just the reintroduction of CT but the
whole reinvention of the world. It should be a flowering of all different
types of Traveller milieus and a proliferation of different settings. A
sort of hybrid of the frontier & the core...compoinents of each make a
successful science fiction game.
One thing you must understand, we all love Traveller, but we fight like
rabid weasels over the details. I really like GT and MT. Some are purists
about TNE or CT, some even like T4! Trying to please *everyone* would
result in a mess.
Perhaps, you are mistaking me for someone else. I love Traveller just as
much as everyone on the list. But, the Traveller, I think we all love is
the open ended not a closed universe. It is not a matter of trying to
please everyone but creating a set of rules which act as a template which
can then be transported into any milieu. For me CT/MT did that but in
accepting MT I had to accept cannon. TNE tried to remedy this by destroying
the Imperium. Trying to please everyone is not as difficult as you might
think... GT is doing it by the fact that is GURPS and set in CT Milieu. T4
did it by transporting back to the origins of the 3I. You see, it is
possible to "accomodate" (I word that I prefer of pleasing everyone)
everyone. My earlier points regarding getting new players in applies. As a
recap, retinking some of the core rules, a multi-milieu background, a more
narrative form, and superior artwork.
>ONCE AGAIN MEANS THAT: we have to be critical and appropiate from other
>games and rethink some of our core rules (this way keep up with the times).
Please kill the all caps. It's very annoying, and I don't appreciate being
shouted at by someone whose name I've only seen in the last week or so.
Excuse me??? I may not be as prolific as some on the list. I chose topics
that interest me and comment as I have done for the last 3 years. So excuse
me, with 16yrs of Traveller under my belt my comments I think are just as
valid who may have been contributing to this list since its inception.
Although, I am sorry about the caps, I have just found too many people who
skim to read the highlights...one way is caps.
Anyway, what's this "we" stuff? We don't own the game. Marc and Loren
graciously allow us to put up web pages about the game, encourage us to
write for the game (the new JTAS online will accept articles about any
edition of the game), and Loren even hires us to write the sourcebooks!
The next edition of traveller is firmly in the hands of one person: Marc
Miller. That is something you have to understand. We can wail all we want,
but in the end, it is his game.
As much as it is Marc & Loren's game it is our game as well. As fans, I
think we have to be more vocal about the type of game we would like to see.
This way avoid some of the pitfalls of the past and build a better game. I
am very happy to see JTAS has returned and I probably contribute.
>Kindly view my comments in that light, as we all have our own Traveller
>Universe. The background, we share and ought to built upon.
We do. Have you cruised the Traveller Web Ring?
I have and it is very impressive. What I advocate is that we ought to see
more of that in print.
>BTW, I saw the funeral announcement of Alternity in rpg.net
>That leaves Traveller once again to bring light into the new milenium.
It's a bloody game. It isn't feeding the hungry, or clothing the poor.
Anyway, GURPS Traveller is doing very well, seven books in eighteen months,
and my local shops tell me that they sell out of new ones within a day or
two of first shipment. That's what is getting us a new audience, being
tied to an established, well funded and competent company like SJG.
Did I not say the very same thing? I just remembered that this discussion
actually began with someone quoting the allegied superiority of Alternity.
I shed no tears. Save some of the adventures looked interesting. I just
don't want to buy a T6 unless, it is like what MT was to CT (if the errata
could be fixed).
Boris
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 16:17:17 -0800
From: "Kelly St.Clair"
Subject: Re: warbots
>The only way to stop the maser comm is to interpose something
>between the robot and the maser source. If you are broadcasting
>from a network of orbital satellites (since we are already assuming
>you hold orbit) attackers are going to need to cover the robot in
>thick goo, metallic cloth or something similar. Even then, the radio
>will get through unless they are also using a jammer.
I'll say it again: the best way to defeat this kind of robot army is to
take out the control ship in orbit. Preferably using a small boy with an
untrained but phenomenal psionic talent in a one-sophont fighter.
(Which is as LEAST as plausible as the rest of this thread...)
Or get rid of the droids and starfighters, give both sides giant
technorganic war machines, and you have EVANGELION.
Okay, I'll stop now.
- --------------
Kelly St.Clair "You know, Brink, you've been acting funny ever since
kellys@efn.org you came back from the dead. (I can't believe I just
said that.)" -- Commander Boston Low, THE DIG
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 00:33:17 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: re: Traveller bites the dust?
At 18:26 -0500 8/3/00, Chris Seamans wrote:
>1.) The venerable Doug Berry made the claim that TSR no longer existed, and
>was absorbed by WotC.
>
>Yes and no. TSR is a subsidiary of Wizards of the Coast. It has its own
>corporate structure and last I checked (about a month ago) TSR's RPG
>products were still being published under the TSR imprint.
>
>So yes, Virginia, there is a TSR.
But D&D 3rd Ed is being published under the WotC brandname and will
loose the third edition soon after launch; or so I've been told.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 19:41:47 -0500
From: "James Fleming"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2023
> > Maybe we should advertise in computer game magazines, have
> > resources on CD (character constructors, ship designers, system
> > designers etc) and sell the CD in the box with the books. Also have
> > a server which will allow multi player online gaming so that I could
> > play with some of you guys on the TML without having to leave
> > Tasmania.
> >
> > Ok... nuff daydreaming... the boss is on the prowl again!
>
> It's not daydreaming. TSR is already forging ahead with many of these
ideas.
> The Core Rules CDs have been quite popular. The nifty Dragon Archive CD
set
> has also been extremely popular. The "new" TSR is busy building bridges
with
> competent computer game publishers to forge a new market. Steve Jackson
> Games currently has two online magazines, one of which is *the* news
source
> for the RPG hobby industry and so on, and so on.
>
Also on that note, Interplay is coming out with a new D&D pc game
that pretty much sounds like what you guys are talking about. It's called
Neverwinter Nights http://www.neverwinternights.com/about.html
From what I've read on the FAQ, it sounds pretty cool and I'm looking
forward to it's release. You can pretty much host your own games and create
your own modules online.
By the way, since this is my first post to the list, I guess I
should introduce myself and all that. Hi all, the name's Jim and I've only
been playing Traveller for about 4-5 years although, thanks to a friend of
mine on the list who shall remain nameless and my recent subscription to the
list I've been spending a good chunk of my time and money on Traveller
stuff.
Well, guess that's all from the newbie. Hopefully I won't have to write
a thesis on the viability of piracy in the 3I.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 16:42:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Question about Odd System Configurations
I was considering planetary systems for binary stars, and came up with a
couple of strange combinations which might result in odd worlds; I'd
like comments on their plausibility, and on what else might be odd about
these worlds:
1) Worlds orbiting very close binaries: it's possible to have a pair of
stars .1-.3 AU apart with a planetary system orbiting the center of mass,
in which case you would have two suns in the sky, separated by up to around
20 degrees. Aside from looking odd, and possibly resulting in an additional
weather cycle if the stars are of uneven brightness, would this have any
interesting direct effects?
2) Trojan Worlds: can a planet appear at L3 or L5 for a companion star?
Not sure if the trojan points apply when the companion mass is a substantial
fraction of the mass of the primary. Two suns, always separated by 60
degrees, which could result in a fairly odd day/night cycle.
3) Horseshoe worlds: there's a sort of orbit (whose name I don't recall)
which is co-orbital with another body, but tends to gradually bounce between
the two trojan points. What sort of period does that have?
4) Worlds orbiting one star, but illuminated by the second: if you take
an M0 star orbiting a G0 star at 1.6 AU, with a planetary companion at
0.4 AU, the planet is probably tide-locked to the M0 star, the planet is
getting somewhat more heat from the G star than from the M star, and while
it's a bit outside the outer limit of the life zone for either individual
star, the total heat is enough to push it into the life zone. I suspect
the back side would go through massive freeze/melt cycles (of about 120
days), the front would be fairly consistently warm. Note that on the outer
side, the sun would get larger and brighter as it approached noon, on the
inner side it would get smaller and dimmer.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 19:43:07 -0500
From: "David J. Golden"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
At 11:12 pm 3/7/00 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
>
>> (Except of course for the Sayat, about whom we've learned far too
much.)
>
>I for one still know nothing of the Sayat. But I'd like to.
*SHUDDER* No you wouldn't ...
- -- Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with your Microsoft
product.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 19:43:31 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Psychological Effects of an Invasion (was: no ground troops)
In a message dated 3/8/00 10:58:14 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
rboleyn@paradise.net.nz writes:
<<
But not the "We were humiliated by the agreement that was forced on us"
one. Or the "These war reparations are destroying our country and the
German people" one.
>>
Gee, how come the French (and how come I'm defending them?) didn't whine
about the same thing after 1870? The Germans got 5 BILLION Francs from them.
Being made scapegoats by shortsited allies doesn't excuse the behavior of the
Germans. Hitler was elected...and I don't feel sorry for that generation of
Germans. I do feel bad for the current generation that has to deal with their
grandparents sins.
Ob Trav: H'mm; depending on how the "Solomani are/aren't space Nazi's" thread
goes, you could model this in the Rim...
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2028
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From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)
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Subj: Traveller-digest V1999 #2029
Date: 3/8/00 7:07:49 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)
Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
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To: traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
Traveller-digest Wednesday, March 8 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2029
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Books, Games and the Web
GT: Solomani Rim now in playtest
Re: warbots
OT: Unemployment & Welfare, a personal experience
Mayday, mayday, mayday!
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2023
Re: Soldiers
Re: Mayday, mayday, mayday!
Tell us what you like about Traveller ( was: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
Re: Why Traveller went down (to Georgia)
Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
Re: Aslan expansion
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
Re: Mayday, mayday, mayday!
Re: A New Traveller
Hopefully I won't have to write
Re: Psychological Effects of an Invasion
and the death of Alternity ?
Re: Non-lethal weapons (DA:6)
Re: Warbots
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000 - Don't blame me for the subject line
Re: Impact of Alternate FTL Ideas
Re: One Traveller=One Formula...do something about it
Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
Re: warbots
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 19:49:29 -0500
From: Steve Daniels
Subject: Books, Games and the Web
Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> >From what I've heard poor sales of their novels, which were returnable,
> unlike prgs.
The book industry is basically just a large scale consignment business.
If you don't have a liberal returns policy, stores won't carry your
books in the first place.
IMHO, RPGs should be returnable (and they are at 'good' FLGSs).
Imagine what would happen if they were as easily returnable as
books. A lot of crappy game makers would have gone bankrupt
sooner, to say the least. Some little gems may never have seen the
light of day.
And with the advent and popular growth of the web, there is beginning
to be a strong case for an 'open source' RPG. I've been sketching some
ideas in this regard with some others. Few if any people are getting
rich on RPG writing anyway. Why not keep it the hobby it is, and
open the whole thing up. You preserve quality by making the best
stuff "official". At the very most, you offer fancified, printable, or printed
versions of official documents at a reasonable price (just to cover costs).
Ok, and you assert the copyright and trademark of course, but freely
license all non-commercial uses to the world.
bloo
(Apprentice Heretic)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 11:45:28 +1000
From: dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au
Subject: GT: Solomani Rim now in playtest
>>>
According to the 8 Mar 00 _Daily Illuminator_, GT: Rim of Fire, their
Solomani Rim sourcebook, is now in playtest.
<<<
And it is good. Kickass good.
Darryl
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 18:58:32 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: warbots
Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
<>
>
> Throw an emergency blanket of aluminized mylar around the robot and you
> block the radio too.
>
> Or just wrap it in aluminum foil. :-)
See:
http://members.tripod.com/~zoam/afdb.html
for details. ;-)
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 01:00:23 -0000
From: "Matthew Bond"
Subject: OT: Unemployment & Welfare, a personal experience
- -----Original Message-----
From: Scout Harris
Scout wrote
>On Wed, 8 Mar 2000 21:33:08 Frank G. Pitt wrote:
>>That's the problem with allowing the unemployed to vote, they'll always
vote
>>for the party that promises to take from the rich and give to the 'poor',
>>and spend more on benefits for those that don't produce.
>
Actually, having a pool of unemployed people is a good thing for the
economy. It means that there are quick replacements for vacancies. Also the
fact that there is someone out there waiting for someones job means that
people tend to work a bit harder for a bit less, keeping wages lower and
productivity higher, which can only be good for the economy.
But to be effective the pool has to be kept at manageable levels. I think I
have heard figures like 5% being bandied about. Not to mention the social
responsibilty all us working types have to those less fortunate than us.
Unemployed people deserve quality of life, not just mere subsistance.
- -----------------------------------------------
Hear! Hear!
For the record, from August 1987 until April 1999 (except for 3 years at
University as a mature student in 1991-1994 [btw, I was better off
financially on the dole than I was as a student... go figure]) I was
officially unemployed. I went on various schemes and training courses, and
did a little part time IT work cash in hand for my fathers company which
kept my head just above water, but to actually be better off in employment I
would have needed a weekly wage of about UKP 160 [~ $240]. Last year I
finally managed to get a job working on a help desk for an IT company on a
salary of UKP12000 [~ $18000]. A couple of weeks ago I moved across into the
development department as a trainee programmer, with the prospect of a 25%
pay rise in the next few of months, after my training finishes.
For the 12 years I was unemployed I was caught between the rock and a hard
place of being either underqualified, overqualified, too young, too old, too
*intelligent* (ie I had been to university...). Only two weeks before
getting my job last year, I had applied for a similar, better paid position
with another company, only to be told by the agency filling the vacancy that
the employer had instructed them not to consider graduates as the work was
so dull that they would spend three months being trained up before moving
onto bigger and better things through boredom...
In my interview for my current employer they also asked me about my
education, saying they were concerned that I would find the position tedious
and not want to commit to a long term future with the company. I mentioned
my experience of the fortnight before and said "If I had thought of it at
the time I would have said 'I'm bored now, pay me 15 thousand and I'll sit
in a box all day.'...".
This, it turned out, is what finally got me a job, as they thought they
could relate to my sense of humour. :-/
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 20:07:40 -0500
From: "David J. Golden"
Subject: Mayday, mayday, mayday!
Help! Some deviant conspiratorial anti-social cheaters are trying to
stack the vote at http://www.freevote.com/booth/best_rpg! I've tried,
but I'm out of votes and we're only a tenth of a percent ahead!
- -- Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with your Microsoft
product.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 20:09:20 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2023
Neverwinter Nights used to be on AOL before WOTC bought TSR. It was pretty
expansive. Maybe someone should get a large Traveller chat campaign
going...And post the PC, NPC and ship stats...Just an idea...
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 17:46:23 -0800
From: sneadj@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: Soldiers
Ray Wiberg wrote:
>Some people have funny concepts concerning concerning war. It's
>a nasty (if necessary) thing. There is mounting evidence of the
>U.S. using anthrax (placed on turkey feathers in leaflet bombs) in
>the "Korean War", despite the ban on the use of such things (just
>an example of gov't duplicity versus singular), not to mention the
>slaughter of civilians that occured in Korea and Vietnam.
Yep, between the bombing of Cambodia, the CIA run assassin
training camps for locals, and many similar things Vietnam was
one ugly war. I know much les about Korea, but the anthrax info
does not surprise me one bit. Do you have a source for that?
>So I'm sorry if you take great umbrage to my former statement, it
>is however valid IMO. When people are under tremendous stress
>and life and limb are at risk, they can (and sometimes do)
>become capable of atrocity, whether they are UN, NATO, Soviet,
>Viet Cong, Khmer Rouge, etc.
Agreed. Certainly there are examples of better and worse armies.
The Nazi and Japanese armies in WWII were certainly worse than
their opponents, but I don't believe any nation comes out of a war
anywhere near clean.
Wrt the warbot discussion, I wonder if the situation would be better
using them. If one side is risking no lives, would they be less
prone to atrocities. I have no answer to this question. Is is merely
that people are risking their lives and so become more callous
while doing so, or is it the fact that once you start killing other
humans in any manner things can get *really* out of hand very fast.
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 14:43:58 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Mayday, mayday, mayday!
On 8 Mar 00, at 20:07, David J. Golden wrote:
> Help! Some deviant conspiratorial anti-social cheaters are trying to
> stack the vote at http://www.freevote.com/booth/best_rpg! I've tried, but
> I'm out of votes and we're only a tenth of a percent ahead!
Not anymore :)
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 18:58:57 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Tell us what you like about Traveller ( was: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
On 03/08/00 at 12:40 AM, john hamilton said:
>Do you really think I would be on this mailing list if
>I wouldn't like Traveller?
Ok, John, I'm game. Tell me what *you* like about Traveller.
Folks that have been around the TML for a while already know what I
like, I think, but I'll briefly lock my heretic side down and
reiterate:
1. I like the Career based character generation. I like the option
of randomly generating characters and the ability to use the tables
to pick the skills you want. I think the concept behind Traveller's
chargen is superior to *any* other chargen available.
2. I like that it *doesn't* try to be cutting edge. The basic
things that make Traveller..Traveller, are accessible to most anyone
with any sort of grounding in science fiction. Yes, it is "old
fashion" science fiction, but that means it is built on well
understood ideas and the players can concentrate on roleplaying not
trying to gronk life beyond the Vingian Singularity.
3. I like that there is a great deal of material available and
there are rich backgrounds within which to play. True a lot of the
material isn't in print, but it is still available. With the
reprinting of classic Traveller taking place now, much of that
material will once more be "in print."
4. I like the task resolution system, one of the first to make use
of adjectives rather than just numeric modifiers. The most modern
RPG systems seem to be coming around to the same idea, and idea that
is 20 years old already in Traveller.
...and a lot more.
Eris,
still The Heretic
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 19:20:15 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Why Traveller went down (to Georgia)
On 03/08/00 at 04:03 PM, Bruce Johnson said:
>Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>
>> Bucky*balls* make for a lousy hull. Composites incorporating
>> bucky*tubes*, ought to be quite strong. About as strong as is
>> physically possible.
>I always thought that thats what the advanced composite hull materials
>were...
What? You mean that's *not* what advanced composites are?
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 20:52:09 EST
From: TDRandall@aol.com
Subject: Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
My learned and obviously well-read friend Leonard Erickson shared >>>
> Try to find the collected works of Jonathon Swift
> (the guy who wrote gulliver's Travels). One of his
> other stories shows that folks have worried about
> this for a long time ... "The Struldbrugs".
That is an absolutely fascinating chapter. An interesting take/twist on the matter, although I will not spoil it any more for the rest of you. For those of you interested, I found it on the web at http://www.litrix.com/gulliver/gulli027.htm
Enjoy!
Tony
(Proving once again that there are no new heresies, only old ones with new names)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 02:54:45 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen
Subject: Re: Aslan expansion
Ingo Heinscher writes:
>>The Aslans just don't expand very quickly, at least not when they have to
>>cross the Great Rift to do it. They first crossed the GF around -1000 and
>>3000 years later they still don't cover more than about 13 subsectors worth.
>>And that includes all the scattered Aslan splinter states.
>
>But according to their culture (obesession of land possession) shouldn't
>they expand at a marvellous rate? Their population density wouldn't be
>high, of course, but they should be _spread_. Why aren't they much more?
>Any suggestions, anyone?
Land alone does not make a clan lord powerful. It takes people to build
factories and wield weapons. Land is the manifestation of power, not the
origin of it. So a small colony where everybody have lots of land is not
really as good as a powerful colony with a few lords and lots of vassals.
And outfitting _ihatei_ is expensive. Depending a bit on the assumptions,
I don't believe Aslan communities can export more than a few percent of
their _ihatei_ each generation.
Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
events based on the individual situation."
_76 Patrons_, p. 8
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 20:00:21 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
On 03/07/00 at 09:54 AM, Glenn Goffin said:
>And substituting a Terran military governor for a Vilani
>executive manager would not be a big change for the locals. I kind of
>like this approach.
And may explain why the ROM went down so fast. Nothing had *really*
changed and slowly collapsing ZS just continued to collapse.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 18:13:40 -0800 (PST)
From: healyzh@aracnet.com
Subject: Re: Mayday, mayday, mayday!
>
> Help! Some deviant conspiratorial anti-social cheaters are trying to
> stack the vote at http://www.freevote.com/booth/best_rpg! I've tried,
> but I'm out of votes and we're only a tenth of a percent ahead!
>
> -- Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with your Microsoft
> product.
>
Gotta wonder how acurate that is anyway! Some of those numbers seem a
little odd.
Zane
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 20:25:27 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: A New Traveller
On 03/08/00 at 02:08 PM, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:
>Here's my thoughts on something that can and I think *should* be done,
>regardless of whatever *else* gets done regarding new versions.
>Create a Traveller *web* game. A program that includes character
>creation, ship combat, possibly personal combat and has modules for ship,
>vehicle and system design.
Great idea! Sort of like a graphical MUSH distributed across the
web. Anyone know how to make it work?
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 18:37:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Hopefully I won't have to write
>From: "James Fleming"
>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2023
> Well, guess that's all from the newbie. Hopefully I won't
>have to write a thesis on the viability of piracy in the 3I.
No, we've saved Why Drop Tanks Cannot Function for you. Please
also include a refutatin of Why Drop Tanks Can Work.
Please use a real subject line, not just the subject line that
comes up automatically when you hit "reply."
Welcome to the TML!
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 18:45:57 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Psychological Effects of an Invasion
>From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
>Subject: Re: Psychological Effects of an Invasion (was: no ground troops)
...
>point there... I wonder how history would have been changed if
>they hadn't signed the WWI armistace until they had invaded Germany. This
>would have eliminated the "we were never defeated on the battlefield; the
>German Army was stabbed in the back" excuse...
ISTR a short story on that; by Norman Spinrad, I suspect.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 18:46:03 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: and the death of Alternity ?
>From: "Boris Cibic"
>Subject: Traveller dead? - clarification - and the death of Alternity
...
> BTW, I saw the funeral announcement of Alternity in rpg.net
In what sense - not the OOP type? (I wish...)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 18:46:23 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Non-lethal weapons (DA:6)
>From: "Smith, Walter"
>Subject: re: Warbots
>
>Non-lethal weapons - in the _Divine Intervention_ Classic Traveller
>adventure (flip side to _Night of Conquest_, IIRC) the heroes are
>equipped with "stun carbines". Non-lethal, I think they were based
>on some frequency of sonics. I don't recall if they were 100% safe,
They were also SOTA toys from INI (?), so TL ~F? OK, there should
likely be other _low_-lethality weapons out there already, but it's
an easily rectified thing if a ref wants to do so.
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 18:46:47 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Warbots
>From: Anthony Jackson
...
>Pure master-slave warbots are a dumb idea anyway, they're vulnerable to a
>wide range of countermeasures.
I'm not sure that the `bots morality is really relevant, but if slightly
twisted is OK, then we can borrow a leaf from PW and have slave bombots.
Great for house-clearing - put them on a timed fuse from being jammed :>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 19:47:54 -0700
From: "Legate Legion"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
From: Steve Daniels
>> Actually, I have found that most gamers like the Traveller Character
>> Creation system, as it is almost a game into itself.
>
>Amen. What other game has ever had the balls to kill you in chargen?
None, other than Traveller.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 18:47:50 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
>From: "James W. Lindsay"
...
>> Or maybe just ignorant/stupid. Do you think he's an Alternity
>> or a Rifts -type person?
>
>Are there trolls in Alternity or Rifts?
Judging from the artwork, yes. I'm less sure about the players :|
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 12:42:50 +1000
From: "Scout Harris"
Subject: Re: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000 - Don't blame me for the subject line
- --
On Wed, 8 Mar 2000 13:34:04 Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>> Actually, having a pool of unemployed people is a good thing for the
>> economy. It means that there are quick replacements for vacancies.
>
>Actually, it means no such thing. Not in a society where most jobs are
>*skilled* jobs. You have to *train* replacements. Which makes them far
>from "instant". It makes more sense (in most industries) to employ a
>few "extra" workers and have all of the workers working at rather less
>than "optimum" load. That way if someone getsd sick or quits, you have
>*trained* people to absorb the slack.
True... and just about all jobs require some form of training. The point I am trying to make is that employers have a wider range of individuals to choose from, and will choose people that are more easily trained. (Dare I say... more intellignet and more committed people).
Ok... it's not instant, but there is a much better chance of finding a good replacement than if unemployment was low to non-existant, and your only choices for replacement are those who are unemployable.
>> Also the fact that there is someone out there waiting for someones
>> job means that people tend to work a bit harder for a bit less,
>> keeping wages lower and productivity higher, which can only be good
>> for the economy.
>Except that wages have a legally set minimum, and workloads (at
>*intelligent* employers) are less than 100%.
I do not disagree, but once you have a shortage of labour in general, in order to atract a person to the job, you need to give them a greater incentive.
Here in Tamanina, finding a welder/boilermaker is almost an impossible task, so employers pay incredible rates to keep them. (At least that is what it was like 5 or 6 years ago).
>> ob trav: However, this has got me thinking about creating a world with a
>> democracy where the number of votes you have is determined by how much you
>> earn. However, your earnings must be taxable income.
>> Welfare exists, but you lose your vote for the number of years that you are
>> on welfare.
>> Which means that in a twisted way some of the rich autocrats see advantage
>> in having a generous welfare system to encourage less people to vote,
>> thearby giving them a greater controlling vote......... this idea develops
>> as I write it.... I'll get back to
>> the list if it goes somewhere!
>
>This gets *really* unbalanced, really fast.
>
>On the other hand, tie the votes to the *taxes* you pay, and it gets
>more interesting. Everybody gets one vote. Taxes are "flat rate" at,
>say, 10%. You get an extra vote for every extra 1% of taxes you pay.
>
>This way you can swing an election a few times, but trying to keep
>doing it will bankrupt you. But your extra tax contributions will help
>keep taxes low!
>
Ohh... nice.... now we have an autocrat who has bankrupted himself to get some political clout... but if he succeeds then his finacial problems are solved. Unfortunatly he knows his rival (another rich autocrat) is going to vote against him.
Now I can go for the "hiring the players to assasinate/defend from assaniation" routine, or
try to be more imaginative..... (a process I do find difficult)
Scout
Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 12:31:09 -0600
From: Rob Eaglestone
Subject: Re: Impact of Alternate FTL Ideas
sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> The 1 week/jump does a reasonable job of recreating pre-telegraph
> 18th-19th century transportation and communication speeds. So,
> what effect would other options have? I'm wondering what a SF
> setting would be like if jumps took say 2 months each, or if some
> form of stargates were used which allowed transport from any
> system with a gate to any other system with a gate, but the travel
> time though the gate was on the order of 4-6 months.
Seems to me that this would be like the countries before the
telegraph... think of each world as a country during the Middle
Ages.
Stargates are cool, and actually exist in the Traveller Universe
(though starship-sized matter portals are Very High Tech), and
in fact I'm not sure if they function with jump mechanics or
with some other medium.
At any rate, it is Traveller do-able to have a civilization that
never discovered the jump drive, yet has learned how to build
stargates. Sort of like Fading Suns, eh? I believe another TML'er
has been toying with some such alternate universe...
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 20:50:53 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: One Traveller=One Formula...do something about it
On 03/08/00 at 03:54 PM, "Boris Cibic" said:
> Simply put the Traveller rules...the one formula resides in the
>character generation scheme, world generation, and animal encounters.
>Everything falls back to dice...
I've been playing and GMing Traveller since 1977 and it was never
like that for *me*. It's always been about role playing rather than
roll playing. Dice are supposed to be an aid to creativity not a
crutch.
You know, if that hasn't been your experience with Traveller then I
can understand why you have a problem.
Oh, and BTW, I agree with you about "sense of wonder" and "open
frontiers." For me *that's* the formula for Traveller.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 21:02:36 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
On 03/07/00 at 02:08 PM, Bruce Johnson said:
>The relation to Traveller should be obvious; the greater implications of
>the power that the dead hand of superstition and a death-cult religion
>has on scientific research in this supposedly enlightened age still has
>me shaking with rage.
Ah, don't get so upset Bruce! These were just intellectuals doing
what intellectuals do...argue. Put them in a different forum and
you'd get a different outcome, but the same arguments.
OTOH, if you really had a treatment that "took 20 years off" I doubt
you'd find any of them running the other direction.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 19:11:16 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: warbots
>From: Ian Ferguson
>Subject: Re: warbots
...
> He did say "most of the robots," but your point is well taken.
> Would it be practical to use a blanket of cheaper slave warbots
> hovering at 5-50 m, with more expensive teams digging out the
> resistence?
Not if your victims have much military hardware; a TL C PD kit sweeps
_10d6_ artillery shells out of the air in a turn (30s, IIRC), or about
one per second. Naturally, the PD weapon might want a Penetration of
about 30 or so - enough to kill a major AFV with each hit...
But there's little point to flying high anyway; the issue is what the
warbots will do at ground level, and as the answer is "fight", then our
next concern is "how much better/worse than sophonts"?
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2029
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, March 8 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2030
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
RE: warbots
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: One Traveller=One Formula...do something about it
Re: A New Traveller
Re: Traveller dead? - clarification - and the death of Alternity
Re: and the death of Alternity ?
An Imperial Intervention
Re: and the death of Alternity ?
Re: and the death of Alternity ?
Re: One Traveller=One Formula...do something about it
Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
Re: One Traveller=One Formula...do something about it
Re: Oh My GOD! They Killed Kenny! YOU BASTARDS!
Re: Using no ground troops
Re: Traveller bites the dust?
Re: Dune
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Traveller / Trade Wars 2002
Re: A New Traveller
Re: A New Traveller
One More Time: What do you want in T5?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 19:11:25 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: RE: warbots
>From: "Rupert Boleyn"
...
>> This should often be a problem. Has anyone come up with some
>> ideas to get around jamming (other than meson comm)?
>
>Yeah. Use humans and just shout to one and another :)
It would never catch on - the bandwidth is too low :>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 19:11:41 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
>From: "Rupert Boleyn"
>Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
...
>> >EVERYTHING CAN AND MUST KEEP UP WITH SCIENCE.AND IF
...
>> Define "science", please - I know people who go into fits of
>> laughter at the "popular" suggestion that nanotech is hard science; its
>> not much more likely than some peoples beliefs in magic, faith healing, or
>> papal infallibility.
>
>I find it facinating that nano-tech is supposed to be smaller and more
>capable than even to most wonderous bio-tech, and yet is unaffected by
>radiation and nasty chemicals. Marvelous stuff that nanotech.
At least nano-tech has the advantage of being treated essentially as
magic by most people who really like it; the cyber-ware weirdness has
less to recommend it in that respect, as we can sit and wonder just how
everyone and their dog (ooh, nice image, that...) has implants and yet
wanders about in a post-apocalyptic haze scrounging for food and shelter,
almost as if it were just past closing time downtown or something :>
IIRC, an article/editorial or two in Challenge questioned the
massive believability problems that these things created (ICE's
Cyber-space was an example of this).
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 19:12:45 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: One Traveller=One Formula...do something about it
>From: "Boris Cibic"
>Subject: One Traveller=One Formula...do something about it
>
> Simply put the Traveller rules...the one formula resides in the character
>generation scheme, world generation, and animal encounters. Everything
I always found it easy enough to choose stats or results (eg. world
generation) when I desired. OTOH, TSR's old Star Frontiers game didn't
give any sort of option in the admittedly limited rules that they were
able to publish; I fail to see how giving the option is more limiting?
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 22:11:21 -0500
From: Peter Miller
Subject: Re: A New Traveller
What about a Traveller ala Trade Wars 2002 (a BBS game for those not in the
know); updated of course; incorporating Traveller rules for chargen,
trading, etc. and the background. Ability to form alliances, etc. But,
the same idea, whereby all action takes place in space, and in limited ways
on planets and starports.
Peter Miller
At 02:08 PM 3/8/00 -0800, you wrote:
>Here's my thoughts on something that can and I think *should* be done,
>regardless of whatever *else* gets done regarding new versions.
>
>Create a Traveller *web* game. A program that includes character
>creation, ship combat, possibly personal combat and has modules for
>ship, vehicle and system design.
>
>The most elementary version would have you create your PC and some NPCs
>and take your ship out trading, exploring or whatever. You'd visit
>worlds and systems that were set up on the web. True 3-d systems. With
>a selection of Major systems predifined at the official web site, and
>folks who buy the world design modules being able to link in worlds of
>their own.
>
>So, when you visit a system, some of the ships could be ships belonging
>to other gamers. Handling combat between owned ships would only be a
>problem in that you'd have to arrange for both players to be online at
>the same time.
>
>Alas, I don't think we can easily extend the idea to on-planet
>adventuring, though we could at least have stuff on the level of the
>old MegaTraveller games and similar computer games from the past. But
>if we could integrate "computer generated" ports and areas with those
>generated by "GMs" we might really have something.
>
>I suspect that if we did it right, the systems controlled by real
>people would be more popular, especially the ones done by people who
>worked at it.
>
>I also suspect, we might need a mechanism for removing "inactive"
>worlds and especially ones that were *really* badly done (though the
>need to "do" them via a program interface might help eliminate gross
>abuses of the rules).
>
>--
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 12:54:33 -0600
From: Rob Eaglestone
Subject: Re: Traveller dead? - clarification - and the death of Alternity
Boris Cibic wrote:
>
> Many on the list tend to take my comments the wrong way. What I am calling
> for is a Traveller Rennaisance which would akin to the CT era and early MT.
> When there was tons of Traveller items not only those produced by GDW but by
> all sorts of independents. We can make it happen again now that we have the
> resources of the WEB at our fingertips. The real secret would be make a
> game which incorporates the best of this grand 23 yr tradition. ONCE AGAIN
> MEANS THAT: we have to be critical and appropiate from other games and
> rethink some of our core rules (this way keep up with the times). Kindly
> view my comments in that light, as we all have our own Traveller Universe.
> The background, we share and ought to built upon.
> BTW, I saw the funeral announcement of Alternity in rpg.net
> That leaves Traveller once again to bring light into the new milenium.
Hooray! Alternity is dead, long live Alternity! Errr...
Boris, I'm not completely sure, BUT I think the success of Classic
Traveller and even MT hinged on the consistent universe as laid out
by core people: Marc and Loren, plus some supporting cast. The
licensees thrived in that consistent system, but didn't push the
borders TOO much. They itemized equipment, drew up deckplans, and
laid out adventures, all of which functioned in this consistent
universe.
Therefore, I conclude that the people best able to make a BINDING
decision about how Traveller should grow is Marc and Loren. As
you mentioned, we all have our own TU. I suggest that a committee
of TMLers would be very hard pressed to come up with a new Traveller
variant that would be accepted. Actually, variants are all over
our websites; they are tailored according to what we like. But
even Imperium Games can't tell us what to play.
Now then, the Rennaisance can still happen: if we were to develop
ADVENTURES for Traveller, collate equipment lists that were web-
browsable, draw up deckplans with our ship designs, and write up
innumerable plot hooks that we could gather into a database
(even a database distributed between all our sites: as long as
there were a consistent organization of the data)... well then,
there WOULD be a Rennaisance. Heck, many have web-published the
rules ALTERATIONS for adding concepts into Traveller. I've mused
over Nanotech, Robotech, Cybernetics, and Hacking. All of them
can be added to Traveller. And if they're kept as options
packages, then people can easily tailor the game from the core
rules.
(Aside: you would not believe how difficult it is to coordinate
efforts of people on the web. Especially when the subject is a
hobby rather than a career. Also especially when the subject is
semi-sacred, such as role playing games.)
And finally, Marc Miller (peace be upon him) is developing the rules
for T5, the next incarnation of Traveller. He is not leaving the
work to some funky California megacorporation, nor is he rushing the
product. He is trying to salvage the good ideas from all previous
rule sets. I *hope* it will have something like:
MT's character generation rules
T4's aging rules and stat improvement rules
A reasonable task system
(maybe I can live with the half die)
Fire, Fusion, and Steel 3 as a design backbone
(but employing useful aggregates for ships and vehicles)
The Sensor rules developed for the TML
Perhaps some version of Mayday or RPSCS for ship combat...
An integrated combat system
(Yes, I know battledress can't harm a starship)
And, guess what? The UWP is pretty good as-is. It's not perfect,
but it really doesn't need modification at all. Unbelieveable.
IMHO, of course.
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 22:11:53 -0500
From: Peter Miller
Subject: Re: and the death of Alternity ?
:-( I actually didn't mind Alternity - the rules, not the setting.
At 06:46 PM 3/8/00 -0800, you wrote:
> >From: "Boris Cibic"
> >Subject: Traveller dead? - clarification - and the death of Alternity
>...
> > BTW, I saw the funeral announcement of Alternity in rpg.net
>
> In what sense - not the OOP type? (I wish...)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 21:29:14 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: An Imperial Intervention
For those TMLers who wish to participate in flamewars, I present the
following URL:
http://www.notfrisco.com/nortoniana/flamewar.html
While His Imperial Majesty, Norton I, by Grace of God Emperor of the
United States of America and Protector of Mexico, in the quoted Imperial
Decree, was addressing (via medium) a flamewar in the Usenet newsgroup
rec.skiing.alpine, I expect that HIM Norton I would equally frown upon
TML flamewars.
In other words, [shouting intended] KNOCK IT OFF!
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 16:22:12 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: and the death of Alternity ?
On 8 Mar 00, at 22:11, Peter Miller wrote:
> :-( I actually didn't mind Alternity - the rules, not the setting.
I rather liked the rules, and the setting wasn't too bad, but it just
didn't really grab me, and from the sales it didn't grab anyone else,
either. IMO it made a fine space opera in the softer "Star Wars" sense.
Like the old FGU game _Space Opera_.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 16:22:12 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: and the death of Alternity ?
On 8 Mar 00, at 18:46, Steven Hudson wrote:
> >From: "Boris Cibic"
> >Subject: Traveller dead? - clarification - and the death of Alternity
> ...
> > BTW, I saw the funeral announcement of Alternity in rpg.net
>
> In what sense - not the OOP type? (I wish...)
Yes. They're winding up the Alternity product line, citing its lack of
profitablity. See rec.games.frp.misc.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 16:24:14 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: One Traveller=One Formula...do something about it
On 8 Mar 00, at 19:12, Steven Hudson wrote:
> >From: "Boris Cibic"
> >Subject: One Traveller=One Formula...do something about it
> >
> > Simply put the Traveller rules...the one formula resides in the
> > character
> >generation scheme, world generation, and animal encounters. Everything
>
> I always found it easy enough to choose stats or results (eg. world
> generation) when I desired. OTOH, TSR's old Star Frontiers game didn't
> give any sort of option in the admittedly limited rules that they were
> able to publish; I fail to see how giving the option is more limiting?
But everyone knows that when there's a formula for something you must
follow it, even when the game says that you're allowed to ignore
results you don't like. Why would CT have included a system using
random dice for UWP generation if you were to be allowed to use your
imagination instead?
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 21:29:16 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
On 03/07/00 at 10:25 PM, TDRandall@aol.com said:
>My fear would be the continued, even increased, separation of "have"s and
>"have-not"s. I mean, whoever is in control (whether you think of that as
>individuals or as a generation as a whole) is going to make sure to STAY
>in control for a long long time! I suppose some may think me paranoid,
>but can't you forsee ruling parties that have held office for 100+ years,
>while their constituencies keep living 70ish years (or less if things
>REALLY divide)?
Good point.
I've talked to several senior citizens about life extension and they
have all had mixed feelings on the subject. Yes, they would to
maintain a high quality of life, no they have little interest in an
extra 10, 20, 50 years if it's in a feeble and painful condition,
yes they worry about staying in control and not making way from a
younger generation and as I get older I find I share their concerns.
The folks I've talked to aren't the "ruling class" so I suspect
their attitudes may be somewhat different from those in power, who
want to *stay* in power.
OTOH, I can't say I wouldn't like to be young and healthy and stay
that way for a good long time.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 21:26:10 -0600
From: Rob Eaglestone
Subject: Re: One Traveller=One Formula...do something about it
Boris gives some very interesting criticism... these are perhaps
valid points.
1. emphasis on dice weakens the product for today's gamers
This might be true; on the other hand, I find that gaming
has always been concerned with probabilities: gambling never
strays far from the spinning wheel, the roll of dice, and
the hand of cards. Indeed, the discernment of probabilities
and underlying strategy is a very strong draw for a game.
However, RPGs are also creative. And when done wrong, dice
rolling stifles creativity and imagination, or just slows things
down.
If you find dice to be too annoying, try FUDGE. It is an
elegant mapping from a dice-and-numbers-intensive system
to a more abstract system. Many people enjoy this style
better than numbers and dice rolls. Eris thinks Traveller
should produce a rules variant that uses FUDGE. I think
that's going too far; however, if there's a market, then
why not?
Really, though, I think Boris is worried about making sure
the game doesn't get in the way of the referee. I don't
think it does, actually... though of course I'm not sure.
2. Traveller must do something new
I don't know what to say. I like the background and rules.
The generation rules are mini-games in their own right.
Surely, when role-playing falls out of favor, solitaire
play becomes an important way to get a Traveller fix.
It's convenient to call the classic Traveller rules + background
a religion. While it is true that Traveller overwhelmed me
twice, it is also true that Traveller tends to have layers of
complexity: you pick the level of complexity you want to work
in, and play by that level's rules. I REALLY like that kind
of selectable granularity. It makes it possible for me to
design ships in a flash, but spend a couple hours on character
generation.
3. Streamlining
Oh yes. The charts and tables must be streamlined. You liked
the MT flowcharts? Yes, I suppose they were good ideas. But
the sheer number and arrangement of tables frightens me. If
they can be streamlined, it would be a Good Thing.
4. Great Artwork is needed
I agree. Or, at least, good, apppropriate, supporting artwork.
There are several folks on the TML who produce that kind of
artwork!
5. Tell Marc what you like
Boris, I couldn't agree more. We need to tell Marc what worked
and, more importantly, what didn't work and why it didn't work.
Concrete proposals are a good idea, but if we have a notion and
can't do anything with it, then bounce it off the TML... finally,
ANY information is more useful than none at all.
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 13:41:16 +1000
From: "The Roc"
Subject: Re: Oh My GOD! They Killed Kenny! YOU BASTARDS!
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Volker Greimann
To:
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2000 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: Oh My GOD! They Killed Kenny! YOU BASTARDS!
> At 00:51 08.03.00, you wrote:
> > >I wonder how to say "Oh My GOD! They Killed Kenny! YOU BASTARDS!" in...
> > >Oh meu deus, mataram Kenny! Os bastardos!
> >Herregud! De drepte Kenny! BASTARDER!
> Oh mein Gott! Sie haben Kenny getoetet! Ihr Bastarde!
>
>
In Australian, "Bloody Hell! They Killed that little kid in that bloody
orange parka again! You Bloody Bastards!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 19:40:01 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Using no ground troops
>From: sneadj@mindspring.com
>Subject: Re: Using no ground troops
...
>I was actually talking about their use for both. However, the initial
>discussion was about whether it was necessary to conquer a world
>(nations or whatever) with ground troops, even if the conqueror
>already had air (or space) superiority. I was saying that using
>ground troops was wasterful and unnecessary.
Asides from the physical evidence of the limitations of those
sorts of policies thus far, what if your targets crime is mere
disobedience - their fleet (if extant) retreats elsewhere, and
their armies disperse and hide using their own substantial plans,
skills, and technologies.
Now what? Your fleet stays in orbit how long? Do you destroy all
of the infrastructure that can be used militarily, or just nerve-
gas the entire planet (which is likely a lot more merciful)?
Maybe the locals will stop forwarding weapons to dissidents if
you arrive in orbit and threaten them, but maybe they think that
their independence is worth dying for (well, at least seeing if
you'll give up before their tolerance for suffering is reached)?
Your fleet can issue destruction, at great convenience and very
real political cost; can it impose defeat except by the consent of
the inhabitants of the world below?
Hamburg in `44 was not defeated; Berlin in `45 _was_.
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 19:41:16 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Traveller bites the dust?
>From: "Chris Seamans"
>Subject: Traveller bites the dust?
...
>Recent TSR releases have been some of the best products that company has
>produced since the golden age of roleplaying. Call me crazy, but these
Define "recent"? Last year on the Greyhawk list some of their writers
were defending their own output by admitting that while bad, they weren't
as utterly useless as the previous quarters releases; the membership of
the list was not arguing :|
And while some of their new product must be good, the specific ones
I've seen (25th A. re-releases) were not edifying, as they were over-
priced and/or simply flung out the door w/o any re-working.
It will be interesting to see how 3ed sells amongst previous editions
players; inarguably, getting more people into RPG's is a Good Thing.
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 22:27:18 -0500
From: "Daniel Poulin"
Subject: Re: Dune
I am very happy about the news of the release (possible) of Dune. I had
heard however that the problem resided not with the licence but more with
the obligation to release a certain amount of books. According to what I
heard from one person close to the distributors, there was no distributor
commitment to take as large an order of books as the Star Trek series (I was
told that shit with the word Star Trek on it with a few words about the
universe would sell as well)... Since there was no committment to
distribute that many books, there was a problem with releasing the books (Am
I making sense or is my flue medication taking over (the rabbitt, my god...
the rabbitt... the fangs... save me... haaaaa :-0))
As for the system, it is elegant. Stats are from 1 to 5 (maybe 6 or higher
in exceptional cases), skills go about the same scale. Roll a number of D6s
equal to the stat for a certain skill and add to the highest die roll the
skill number (for example Picard has a skill in Social Sciences (Archeology)
of 5 (making him the equivalent of a reknowned individual). Social Sciences
falls under the trait Intellect (Picard has it at 4). Picard, when using
archeology, rolls 4 dice and adds the highest roll to his skill of 5. A
Routine test requires a 4, a moderate one 7, challenging 10, etc.). One of
the dice rolled is a Drama die that gets added to the highest one if a 6 is
rolled.
The character creation is nice and elegant. The skill system is simple and
workable. The space combat system is not very good but is at least workable
(contrary to the combat systems in TNE which was marvelous but unusable in
real life (and the one in MegaTraveller was worse since although it was
workable, it produced results where small ships would pass each other and
blow the weapons away and scrape the surface until a critical was
scored...). It is a nice game and the products are very neatly produced
(you have the impression that you do get a lot for your money). It is not
the best system in the world and there are better ones around. On the other
hand, it is an easy one and it does give a good flavor of the genre
(similarly to the WEG Star Wars system which was very simple yet completely
frivolous. It did do the job though and it felt like the movies, which is
what most of us were looking for...)
Daniel Poulin
danielpoulin841@home.com
- ----- Message d'origine -----
De : Keith Johnson
À :
Envoyé : Wednesday, March 08, 2000 6:12 PM
Objet : Re: Dune
>
> >Keith Johnson wrote:
> > > Despite licensing problems that have held up printing the book, DUNE:
> > > Chronicles of the Imperium should be released late March/ early
> > > April.
> >
> >This is one of the worst news I have received in a long time (at least
> >from an economic point of view). ;-)
>
> "It is by roleplaying games alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the
> new releases that thoughts acquire speed, the campaign acquires change,
and
> the sessions promote excitement. It is by roleplaying games alone I set
my
> mind in motion."
>
> -- The Mentat GM's Handbook
>
>
> >What kind of system is the Icon system? I have not played any of the
> >games that LUG produce, so I'm kind of lost here...
>
> I can't speak with any accuracy on the subject, since I don't own any of
> the non-FASA Trek books.
>
> From what I understand, in the Icon system you choose archetypes for your
> race (Vulcan, Betazoid, Human, Tribble, ect...) and then another archetype
> for your class/job/career (Helmsman, Smuggler, Klingon Painstick Tester,
> ect...). After "overlaying" the two archetypes, you get X amount of
points
> to individualize the character and you are ready to play.
> _____________________________________________________________
> Rev. Keith Johnson /\ keith@sjgames.com
> Assistant Webmaster /()\ keithalanjohnson@home.com
> Steve Jackson Games /____\ reverendkeith@hotmail.com
>
> Everything you do is Zen -- Bodhidharma
> _____________________________________________________________
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 19:53:11 -0500
From: Steve Daniels
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Mark Urbin wrote:
> >And FASA went bankrupt.
> >Since when?
>
> Well, perhaps Morally bankrupt...
Perhaps they were only near bankruptcy. I do seem to recall
that they were bailed out/bought/saved from ruin.
> Their cash flow seems to be fine...
>
> The two, rather thin, modules for their Crimson Skies board game are $20 each.
> That's the price for a major GURPS sourcebook...
I looked at that Crimson Skies stuff and couldn't stop laughing.
But I guess there really is a sucker born every minute.
(I know someone will come and defend it now, but it won't work on
me ;-)
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 21:41:18 -0600
From: Rob Eaglestone
Subject: Traveller / Trade Wars 2002
Peter Miller wrote:
>
> What about a Traveller ala Trade Wars 2002 (a BBS game for those not in the
> know); updated of course; incorporating Traveller rules for chargen,
> trading, etc. and the background. Ability to form alliances, etc. But,
> the same idea, whereby all action takes place in space, and in limited ways
> on planets and starports.
Excellent idea.
Starports could sell trader ships, and some might even have
an architect for hire. You'd look for crewmen at the bar.
Why, your trader could turn rogue and see just how hard it
is to be a pirate... firsthand... hmmmm....
Starcharts would be real Traveller sectors, so you can weave
your plots offline.
Hey! You get one turn per day: once you've jumped, your
turn is over. Wow, pretty slow game... unless you're an
Imperial Navy Squadron commander and are moving into
position on the Zhodani border...
It's still a nontrivial task to write; however, it's very
do-able... hmmmm! And it can be in Java. Anyone else
really like this idea?
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 22:53:18 -0500
From: Steve Daniels
Subject: Re: A New Traveller
eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
> On 03/08/00 at 02:08 PM, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:
>
> >Create a Traveller *web* game. A program that includes character
> >creation, ship combat, possibly personal combat and has modules for ship,
> >vehicle and system design.
>
>
>
> Great idea! Sort of like a graphical MUSH distributed across the
> web. Anyone know how to make it work?
Sounds like an online RPG to me.
There is stuff I think I can say about that, but I'm not sure.
I'll ask MM.
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 21:43:42 -0600
From: Rob Eaglestone
Subject: Re: A New Traveller
eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
>
> On 03/08/00 at 02:08 PM, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:
>
> >Here's my thoughts on something that can and I think *should* be done,
> >regardless of whatever *else* gets done regarding new versions.
>
> >Create a Traveller *web* game. A program that includes character
> >creation, ship combat, possibly personal combat and has modules for ship,
> >vehicle and system design.
>
>
>
> Great idea! Sort of like a graphical MUSH distributed across the
> web. Anyone know how to make it work?
>
> Eris
I think there would have to be at least a client program that
could interpret the data on peoples' sites, and a server program
that updated site data.
Perhaps.
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 22:18:27 -0600
From: Rob Eaglestone
Subject: One More Time: What do you want in T5?
Well, since the issue comes up each year, here's the
latest poll.
What do you want in T5?
There are no wrong answers.
- -Rob
I. General
II: Characters
III: Combat
IV: Vehicles & Starships
V: Worlds
VI: Adventures
I. General
1. Different levels of granularity for the design systems.
2. Appropriate, supporting artwork.
II. Characters
1. MT-like career-based generation system.
2. A fast variant for quick-and-dirty characters.
3. A detailed (MT-like) variant for well-defined characters.
4. T4's stat improvement rules.
5. T4's aging rules.
6. Well-organized tables and perhaps even MT-like flowcharts.
7. 'Reasonable' task system (T4 or MT are fine).
III. Combat
1. Scalable - rules for large units and individuals (MT?)
2. Integrated - How many grav fighters does it take
to take out a starship?
3. Worked-over version of Mayday or RPSCS space combat rules.
III. Vehicles & Starships
1. Built on a solid, consistent, perfect FFS3 [not in core rules].
2. A catalog of pre-built components and modules for easier design.
3. A catalog of pre-built subassemblies for even easier design.
[perhaps in core rules]
4. Bruce Allen MacIntosh and Anders Backman's Definitive Sensor rules.
IV. Worlds
[ fine as-is ]
V. Adventures
[ fine as-is ]
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2030
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Date: 3/8/00 9:45:34 PM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Thursday, March 9 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2031
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: One Traveller=One Formula...do something about it
Chargen (long)
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2023
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2027
Re: What if . . .
Re: Failure company=failed game...?
Re: One Traveller=One Formula...do something about it
Re: Chargen (long)
Re: What if . . .
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: A DUNE LUG
Re: A DUNE LUG
Re: A DUNE LUG
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2025
Re: Traveller bites the dust?
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2025
Re: What if . . .
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 22:34:09 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: One Traveller=One Formula...do something about it
On 03/09/00 at 04:24 PM, "Rupert Boleyn" said:
>> I always found it easy enough to choose stats or results (eg. world
>> generation) when I desired. OTOH, TSR's old Star Frontiers game didn't
>> give any sort of option in the admittedly limited rules that they were
>> able to publish; I fail to see how giving the option is more limiting?
>But everyone knows that when there's a formula for something you must
>follow it, even when the game says that you're allowed to ignore results
>you don't like. Why would CT have included a system using random dice
>for UWP generation if you were to be allowed to use your imagination
>instead?
Hee! Hee! If I'd been drinking you'd have gotten a "Splort!"
As it is, you get a Level II virtual Keyboard of Merit.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 23:44:03 -0500
From: Steve Daniels
Subject: Chargen (long)
Rob Eaglestone wrote:
> I *hope* it will have something like:
>
> MT's character generation rules
>
Ok, I've been meaning to post this for a while, after cleaning it up a bit,
but since we're discussing things, I might as well share what I have.
A while ago I adapted High Guard for T4, with some things from the
T5 beta thrown in:
http://portcaddo.com/bloo/traveller/highgard.htm
I've hinted a couple of times about trying to develop advanced
chargen for all the careers. And I've actually started. Its rough
and incomplete, actually, its mostly skill tables. But it has the
main ideas. One of the main goals was to cut down on the skill
table sprawl of T4. The idea of the "Life Pursuits" could fit in
well.
http://portcaddo.com/bloo/traveller/charmenu.htm
Highlights:
Clergy and Technician careers.
Each career has 4 skill tables to choose from for skills:
- Career Life
- Routine/Hazard (NCO/Officer for military)
- Planetary/Interstellar (Ship/Shore for military, Field/Bureaucracy for Scouts)
- Branch
Branches:
Rogue: Thief, Enforcer, Conman, Smuggler, Cleaner, Prisoner.
Entertainer: Physical, Mental, Social.
Merchant: Deck, Management, Services, Engineering, Free Trader.
Noble: Honor, Rank, High/
Scholar: I gave scholar 2 type of branches, either of which can
be used, one based on the type of science (Social or Physical) and
one based on environment (Theoretical/Acadmic or Applied/Corporate)
Technician: Builder, Repairer. [Not great I know]
Clergy: Monk/Missionary, Church. This career has 3 different divisions:
Monastic, Parish, and Church ("Church" is essentially adminstrative). There
are also ranks for Religious Military Orders (for the Templar in all of us),
as well as my suggestion of Noble Ranks).
Psionicist: Freelance, Organization. (Its otherwise blank ;-)
Army/Marine: Infantry, Cavalry, Artillery, Support, Marine, Commando.
Navy: Crew/Line, Flight, Technical/Engineering, Gunnery, Medical,
Intelligence.
Scout: Exploration, Survey/Commo, Contact/Liason (Field); Admin,
Operations, Technical, Detatched (Bureacracy).
====================
I also wrestled with military ranks to try and standardize them
(stealing some of Doug Berry's Marine rank ideas). And I've
just had an idea, or rather, I found an idea I want to steal from
a novel I just read, that I will incorporate soon.
Highlights:
Each of the military branches has a rank title uniquely theirs:
Navy - Commodores, Admirals, Petty Officers.
Marines - Marshalls, Force X, Leading/Ship's Sgt., Fleet Sgt.,
Command Sgt.
Army - Generals, Troop Leader (ugh), Staff/Gunnery Sgt., First Sgt.,
Sgt. Major.
Snag: I'd like for all rank titles to be equivalent across branches,
e.g., O3 to always be Lieutenant. That way everyone knows where
they sit. What I have now is ugly and will change. I guess its more
important to have the Navy and Marines consistent, since they are
in close quarters more often, as opposed to either dealing with the
Army, which is mostly planetary forces that are likely to have their
own rank title idiosyncracies anyway.
http://portcaddo.com/bloo/traveller/milranks.html
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 23:39:20 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2023
In a message dated 00-03-08 10:56:08 EST, you write:
<< I agree the retail muscle of WotC is
impressive and that Matel will be able to market the game far. >>
Hasbro bought WOTC, not Mattel.
<< I think if you let a corporate bememouth control you...the game loses it
creativity
and its ability to take risks......look at DGP vs GDW.>>
Corporate be(h)emoth? Whatever do you mean? What is it you think GDW did to
DGP to deserve the label "corporate behemoth"?
Loren Wiseman
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 23:39:21 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2027
In a message dated 00-03-08 18:28:09 EST, you write:
<< According to a local retailer, so many distributors and stores were trying
to make a lot of money with Magic sales and tied up lots of cash in
preorders. When the first major slow-down hit Magic, a lot of them found
they couldn't return the orders. With their cash tied up, they couldn't pay
anyone else, like TSR. >>
Replace "TSR" with "GDW" and you have one of the four reasons we went out of
business -- three really _really_ REALLY lousy sales quarters in a row.
As for the basic popularity of Traveller with the distributors: When we went
under, there were three lines that we had no trouble selling the entire
remaining stock into the distribution chain at standard discounts (no fire
sales, etc.): Traveller (all versions), Twilight: 2000, and Dark Conspiracy.
Loren Wiseman
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 23:46:35 -0500
From: scott brandsgaard
Subject: Re: What if . . .
At 13.11 -0800 03.08.00, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>At 23.36 -0500 03.07.00, Steve Daniels wrote:
>
>
>> Jump duration was nearly instaneous?
>>
>> - Centralized government, adminstration more efficient, or
>> "Hands on"? X-Boat travel would certainly be able to keep
>> the Emperor up to date and allow him to react quicker.
>>
>> - Different assumptions of ship design?
>>
>> I've been thinking about designing a new TU. Maybe I've been
>> reading too much Peter Hamilton, but I don't see why jump
>> travel should always take a week. And rather than get into
>> a discussion about why it should or shouldn't take that long,
>> I prefer to ask simply, what if it was instanteous?
>
>You'd have a totally different game. Speed of communication (via
>Xboats) would be such that only the sheer *amount* of information would
>impede strong central control. And governments have always been good at
>ignoring "irrelevant" information.
>
>It'd change the trading picture beyond recognition as well.
Sort of spin-off idea:
Well what if it still took nearly a week to get to a safe Jump Point?
This would mean week-long battles while running out to the point. No
sleeping, or wasting time in Jump space when an encounter could
happen at any time.
Speed of communication would still be the same. Although effected
somewhat by the time to travel to the jump point.
The trading picture would be altered only minimally. YMMV
=================================================================
"The Universe is, at any time, what you say it is." -James Burke
Scott Brandsgaard mailto:buzardb8@macconnect.com
Space Trader http://macconnect.com/~buzardb8/spacetrader.html
FUDGE TV http://macconnect.com/~buzardb8/fudgetv.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 14:58:22 +1000
From: "The Roc"
Subject: Re: Failure company=failed game...?
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Boris Cibic
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2000 1:25 AM
Subject: Failure company=failed game?
> Roc wrote:
> ...let us agree that the gentleman who postedthis> does have a point.
> Not really, I don't see that a failed company = failed game. GDW went
bust
> because of many reasons, not because of Traveller?
>
> I did not make the assertion of failed company = failed game...I am well
> aware of some of the reasons why GDW kicked the bucket.
Thank goodness for that, for a moment then I thought you were...
But the fact is
> until G:T. Traveller has failed to win over significant new market share.
> This is due to decline in popularity of RPGs, but, also due a lack lustre
> advertizing campaign.
Where should they advertise to reach the masses by the way? I never see
these style of games advertised in newspapers, non-gaming magazines, nor the
TV or cinema. Advertising in a gaming mag doesn't quite seem much help to
new-comers to me (or White Dwarf for example, is fine for those
not-yet-gamers that already read such things - is that what you are trying
to say?), and I don't believe everyone that plays RPG's subscribe to or read
such magazines anyway (of 20-odd gamers locally, I and another were the only
ones subscribing to anything at one time), so the covereage there is also
slim I imagine?
> G:T had promo posters well ahead of the release, yet, no one had
informed
> the retail outlets when to expect a release. Do we see a pattern here.
> Traveller in whatever its incarnation has to inspire, more first time
> buyers.
Funnily enough, I never once sold a new game product or old system to a new
gamer from an advertising poster... what was I doing wrong all those years?
New gamers tended to come in on the advice of their friends (or game club
that they had discovered before they found the game shop!), of the posters
for GURPS, Paladium, Vampire, and AD&D, we often found that anti-GURPS
people would ignor or make snide comments about posters featuring new GURPS
products, and anti-AD&D'ers would do the same about new AD&D posters and
fancy castle displays and so on. Only those people that already knew about
RPG's and/or played certain systems actually brought new products because of
posters... and only then because the posters made current gamers aware of
the new product.
In the store I managed for a couple of years, new gamers would come in and
ask for AD&D products mostly on the whole. Very few of them would come in
and ask for Vampire or GURPS directly unless "A friend of mine said I could
buy ............... here?" or some comment similar to that. Other than
inside house and trade organs, I have never seen any non-family game
advertised on any mainstream media (Oh! Unless Hero Quest and Space Crusade
count? They were heavily advertised during morning cartoon shows when they
came out and advertised in Toy Shop catalogues too - RPG's tending to be the
field of dedicated games and comic shops down here). Perhaps where you are
from, posters may have a bigger effect on people or are posted outside of
game shops?
>
> Only one system failed
> and it still has a damn strong player base.
>
> Look around you. Does it?
As I understand it, Traveller still does well in current sales in the US via
GURPS? GURPS isn't the biggest seller in SE Q'ld, but I do believe people
still purchase it.
>
> TSR with AD&D/D&D almost went
> by way of GDW, would someone care to honestly say that those (though not
> most liked) games are failures? What would have happened to GDW and
> Traveller had WotC been around then and showing interest in GDW???
>
> God spare us from that fate.
Oh yes! I to would hate to see Traveller doing better than it has done in a
while... I don't know about outside Australia there, but down here WotC put
AD&D back on track and it is selling better than it ever did as I am led to
understand it (people in the industry telling me they no longer have to
think about closing shop because the "Best selling game system is again
selling better than it ever has!" which was a real fear to them, and one of
the reasons I left the store I worked, TSR/AD&D wasn't selling like it used
to and the store was suffering).
> By making part of the Matel empire,
> I think they will be trying to market to 5-12 yr old set. I have had
enough
> experiences, of 10yr olds crying when their character failed the survivial
> rolls, thank you very much.
I never had that problem, I have never been in a group with members aged
less than 17. Not by choice, just how it seemed to work out? However, I
assume that if you chose more mature players, this could be avoided?
> AD&D may yet die,
It may, but I'm not going to hold my breath just yet.
> as I never bought into the 2nd as T$R just pissed me off with their
> shoddy products and lousy art (and the final straw came when they booted
out
> Gary).
That would have been in the mid-later stages of 2nd ed? Lousy art? Yep, I
never thought Elmore was that good either (yeah, right!). It's sad to see
something doing so poorly that it is still one of the biggest sellers, isn't
it?
- -- The Roc
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 22:53:10 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: One Traveller=One Formula...do something about it
On 03/08/00 at 09:26 PM, Rob Eaglestone said:
>Boris gives some very interesting criticism... these are perhaps valid
>points.
>If you find dice to be too annoying, try FUDGE. It is an
>elegant mapping from a dice-and-numbers-intensive system
>to a more abstract system. Many people enjoy this style
>better than numbers and dice rolls. Eris thinks Traveller
>should produce a rules variant that uses FUDGE.
I don't think I'm alone in this either
>I think that's going too far; however, if there's a market, then
>why not?
I doubt there's a commercial market, though.
>Really, though, I think Boris is worried about making sure
>the game doesn't get in the way of the referee. I don't
>think it does, actually... though of course I'm not sure.
Agreed.
>2. Traveller must do something new
>I don't know what to say. I like the background and rules.
>The generation rules are mini-games in their own right.
>Surely, when role-playing falls out of favor, solitaire
>play becomes an important way to get a Traveller fix.
Agreed. I've wasted many an hour rolling characters and figuring
out their life stories, creating worlds...entire systems, and
building ships.
>It's convenient to call the classic Traveller rules + background a
>religion. While it is true that Traveller overwhelmed me twice, it is
>also true that Traveller tends to have layers of complexity: you pick the
>level of complexity you want to work in, and play by that level's rules.
>I REALLY like that kind of selectable granularity. It makes it possible
>for me to design ships in a flash, but spend a couple hours on character
>generation.
You can always eschew a lot of the background & rules and set off on
a voyage of your own design too.
>3. Streamlining
>Oh yes. The charts and tables must be streamlined. You liked the MT
>flowcharts? Yes, I suppose they were good ideas. But the sheer number
>and arrangement of tables frightens me. If they can be streamlined, it
>would be a Good Thing.
Agreed!
>4. Great Artwork is needed
>I agree. Or, at least, good, apppropriate, supporting artwork. There are
>several folks on the TML who produce that kind of
>artwork!
The artwork in GT has been good and I liked the non-Foss work in T4
(I know I'm a minority on that). However, I'm more impressed with
content than art...I might be a minority on that too.
>5. Tell Marc what you like
Ditch the half die? Okay, okay! I won't start *that* again.
What I've seen of Chargen in the T5 drafts looks good, although
adding "missions" for the terms would enhance it. I especially,
like the idea of "life pursuits."
It might be better to NOT link Attributes and Skills in Task
Resolution. We could use the 2d6 with 4/6/8/10/12/14/16 as targets
for levels of difficulty. Reserve the Attributes for what Traveller
has traditionally used them physical ones for damage resolution and
mental ones for limits on skill levels. Gee! That sounds awfully
CT, doesn't it?
I would like a combat/damage/armor system that runs seamlessly from
personal to ship. It doesn't have to be extremely complicated for
me, but I'd like different weapons to have different flavors and
sensors need to be well integrated.
Personally, I really want hooks for alternative tech into all the
systems. It's fine for the books to focus on the standard Trav
tech, but leave hooks for me to slip in stutterwarp and so on.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 00:00:19 -0500
From: Steve Daniels
Subject: Re: Chargen (long)
Whoops. Forgot to put Agent up there.
Branches: Patrol, Security/SWAT, Investigator, Undercover, Bounty Hunter.
http://portcaddo.com/bloo/traveller/agent.html
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 00:09:15 -0500
From: Steve Daniels
Subject: Re: What if . . .
scott brandsgaard wrote:
> At 13.11 -0800 03.08.00, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> >At 23.36 -0500 03.07.00, Steve Daniels wrote:
> >> Jump duration was nearly instaneous?
>
> Sort of spin-off idea:
> Well what if it still took nearly a week to get to a safe Jump Point?
I was thinking that time to safe jumping distance would be significant,
not a week, but some amount of time. Varying of course by speed
of the ship. And speed may well be reduced by the densitiy of
'dust'., etc.
An interesting concept in Hamilton's recent book series was
that the velocity of the arm of the galaxy you're in must be
taken into account. Because the arms are spinning around
the center of the galaxy, they have a velocity, which varies
the distance from the radius.
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 23:14:03 -0600
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Apparently a river barge has struck a bridge somewhere and scared out what
was living under it.
Ahem.
TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
#1 Terrorist bomb in luggage.
#2 Heard that funky music, couldn't help itself.
(oops, that's "get down") ;-)
#3 Because Australians love good science fiction games.
And the #4 reason "why Traveller went down":
To get to the other side.
Ciao,
Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net
p.s. I know, I know ... it was lame.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 22:11:07 -0700
From: "Legate Legion"
Subject: Re: A DUNE LUG
From: Jens Rydholm
>What kind of system is the Icon system? I have not played any of the
>games that LUG produce, so I'm kind of lost here...
The Icon system. Basicly the good parts of GURPs, Shadowrun, & a few
other modern games.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 22:10:09 -0700
From: "Legate Legion"
Subject: Re: A DUNE LUG
From: Keith Johnson
>>Also, they will use the same
>>basic system in their Dune RPG,...
>
>My understanding is that Dune is going to use a modified version of the
>Icon system. As I could care less about roleplaying in the Star Trek
>universe, I am waiting for LUG to finally print and distribute Dune.
Actually, as someone who has seen a copy of Dune, before it will hit the
market, it uses the same basic system as ST, but with a few tweaks for Dune.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 22:08:39 -0700
From: "Legate Legion"
Subject: Re: A DUNE LUG
From: Garcia, Abel
>Looking at my LUG Star Trek Books (btw, I think MM is working for LUG
>now), it sems to me that it follows the same ideas of character creation as
>Traveller. I.e. youth, education, enlistment. And, as I have just got
some
>emails for the people over at LUG today, it seems to me that LUG is still
in
>print, & will stay in print for a long time. Also, they will use the same
>basic system in their Dune RPG,...
>
>What is "LUG" and is there really a DUNE RPG or is someone just talking
>about making one?
Last Unicorn Games, or LUG.
And, yes Virgina, there is a DUNE RPG coming out & the Sleeper has
awakened. The game is on its way to your local FLGS.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 00:37:21 -0500
From: "DaveShayne"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2025
>Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 14:24:39 -0600
>From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)
>Subject: Re: What if . . .
>
>stutterwarp?
>
>- -----Original Message-----
>From: Stormhound
>Subject: Re: What if . . .
>
>
>>Steve Daniels wrote:
>>
>>> Jump duration was nearly instaneous?
>>
>> Then depending upon the time required for calculations, microjumps
>become
>>a consideration for combat. Talk about chaos...
Not necesarily. It becomes a trade-off. Each microjump will consume 10% of
ships volume for fuel. The question becomes will that 10% be beter spent on
aditional armor/power/weaponry? Although I could definitely see larger ships
allocating the extra tonnage as a last resort vs missile barrages. If you
can't
shoot them down just jump 10 klicks to starboard (or whatever.) So unless
you lower fuel requirements it won't be stuterwarp.
The other thought I had on this question is regarding the X-Boat network.
Since jump is instantaneous the only diference between a Jump 1 ship and
a jump 6 ship is the jump six ship requires 5 more tons for the drive. Ie a
jump 1 ship with 60% fuel can perform 6 instantaneous jumps to arrive at the
same place as the jump 6 vessel. (Assuming jumps to empty hexes are
allowed.) The upshot of this is that I would expect the imperium to do away
with the X-Boats in favor of requiring subsidized merchants to take up the
slack.
Consider that the free trader Beowulf is in system B when a priority 1
message
destined for system C arrives from system A. If the Beowulf is fueled and
ready to go they take the message. Same thing for scouts. In fact I think
this would make Far Trader ownership much more like Scout ownership. It's
not really
your ship it's on loan from the Imperial Post Office. This could result in
ships
being moved arround in ways inconvenient for the owners/captains. The
primary
restraint on speed of travel becomes travel from/to 100 diameters and
refueling.
Canon gives an average time for turnaround of 1 week in comercial service
and
at least several hours in a military situation.
Just some ramblings.
David Shayne
+++++++++++++++++++++
Veni, Vidi, Vacca.
I came, I saw, I had a cow
- Bart Caeser
+++++++++++++++++++++
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 06:12:18 +0100
From: "Carl Roger Nilsen"
Subject: Re: Traveller bites the dust?
Chris Seamans wrote:
>TSR is also rising to the challenge and making a strong attempt to win over
>computer game players with a good deal of success by licensing their game
>worlds and rules to competent companies. SJG tried this with Fallout, but it
>unfortunately fell through.
SJG did a Fallout table version? When? Where is there any information about this?
Carl Roger Nilsen
Vilani: Karukane Shiraagineraager
Zhodani: Irezhrezr Ne'sthlen
Hiver: Carl Roger Nilsen
"Never overlook something that seems to be simple"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 00:38:01 -0500
From: Steve Daniels
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2025
DaveShayne wrote:
> The other thought I had on this question is regarding the X-Boat network.
> Since jump is instantaneous the only diference between a Jump 1 ship and
> a jump 6 ship is the jump six ship requires 5 more tons for the drive. Ie a
> jump 1 ship with 60% fuel can perform 6 instantaneous jumps to arrive at the
> same place as the jump 6 vessel.
Well, there is still the need to manuever to next jump point (which could
take a week or more), and possibly time to recharge the jump drive,
depending upon how it works.
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 00:18:01 -0500
From: Steve Daniels
Subject: Re: What if . . .
Eric Henry wrote:
> stutterwarp?
>
Where is that stutterwarp stuff from, anyway?
2300? Which I have yet to see.
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 21:43:15 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
On Wed, 08 Mar 2000 19:53:11 -0500, Steve Daniels wrote:
>
>
> Mark Urbin wrote:
>
> > >And FASA went bankrupt.
> > >Since when?
> >
> > Well, perhaps Morally bankrupt...
>
> Perhaps they were only near bankruptcy. I do seem to recall
> that they were bailed out/bought/saved from ruin.
They were in the midst of being bought up by Decipher-- the CCG company.
As of late last month, those plans are no longer.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
I'd love to, but I've dedicated my life to linguini.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 21:44:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
>On 03/07/00 at 09:54 AM, Glenn Goffin
>said:
>>And substituting a Terran military governor for a Vilani
>>executive manager would not be a big change for the locals.
>
>And may explain why the ROM went down so fast. Nothing had
>*really* changed and slowly collapsing ZS just continued to
>collapse.
I think we're onto something here.
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2031
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Traveller-digest Thursday, March 9 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2032
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: One Traveller=One Formula...do something about it
Alternity...
Re: Traveller bites the dust?
Re: Traveller bites the dust?
Re: Tell us what you like about Traveller ( was: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
Re: Traveller bites the dust?
Re: A New Traveller
Re: One More Time: What do you want in T5?
marches map in the works
Re: Oh My GOD! They Killed Kenny! YOU BASTARDS!
Re: One More Time: What do you want in T5?
Re: Tell us what you like about Traveller ( was: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space
Re Gaming Mags
Re A Dune Lug
Re: Re Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space
Re Warbots
Re LUG-Dune & LUG-Trek [ot]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 21:53:59 -0800
From: Kristian Miller
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> I find it facinating that nano-tech is supposed to be smaller and more
> capable than even to most wonderous bio-tech, and yet is unaffected by
> radiation and nasty chemicals. Marvelous stuff that nanotech.
I wonder where you heard that? Of course, it depends on what the
nanotech is made of and what you define as nanotech. Some
nanoelectronics could be screwed up by a cosmic ray. Others, like the
recently announced amorphous diamond mechanical "comb" are probably
considerably tougher.
ObTrav: Sure we've heard of "system on a chip." How about "rocket
engine on a chip?" There's an article in this month's AIAA Journal
about a rocket the size of a dime that produces 3 lbs. of thrust.
Imagine a TL ~11 starship propelled by an array of thousands of dime
size rockets....
Kristian
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 22:00:53 -0800
From: Kristian Miller
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Steven Hudson wrote:
>
> >From: "James W. Lindsay"
> >troll...
>
> Or maybe just ignorant/stupid. Do you think he's an Alternity
> or a Rifts -type person?
No. Just a troll.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 23:46:31 -0600
From: Bolie Williams IV
Subject: Re: One Traveller=One Formula...do something about it
At 10:53 PM -0600 3/8/2000, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
>On 03/08/00 at 09:26 PM, Rob Eaglestone said:
>>2. Traveller must do something new
>
>>I don't know what to say. I like the background and rules.
>>The generation rules are mini-games in their own right.
>>Surely, when role-playing falls out of favor, solitaire
>>play becomes an important way to get a Traveller fix.
>
>Agreed. I've wasted many an hour rolling characters and figuring
>out their life stories, creating worlds...entire systems, and
>building ships.
One often neglected aspect of role-playing games is the ability
to play alone. While it's hard to "role" play alone, there are
always things that can be done. I have never had very consistent
or frequent access to group gaming. Back when I played AD&D, I'd
roll up characters and send them through random dungeons. When
I started playing Traveller, I'd roll up characters, roll up
systems and sectors, and create ships.
For me, a game that has solo aspects is more attractive than one
that doesn't.
Bolie IV
- --
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 01:04:06 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Alternity...
On 8 Mar 00, at 22:11, Peter Miller wrote:
> :-( I actually didn't mind Alternity - the rules, not the setting.
Having played in the Alternity DriveSpace setting a bit, I can attest that
it failed several of my basic tests for long-term playability. Even T4 passed
most of these same tests, BTW.
I rather like the collection of aliens in Alternity, and plan to adapt most
of them to Traveller at some point. This is about the only part of the game
setting and mechanics that I can say that about.
The skill system suffers (suffered) from a number of interlocking ills. For
starters the system is waaay too stingy during character creation. We
increased the skill points available by nearly 50% and it still wasn't
enough. Secondly, the skill numbers resembled Basic CT values (mostly '1's)
but were less useful per point than in TNE, and were blindingly expensive to
increase. Rabid specialists who still weren't very good at their specialty
seemed the order of the day as a result. A classic Heinlein-style well-rounded
Hero just isn't possible in Alternity. Space Opera without a stong-jawed
Rennaisance Man Hero? Preposterous!
The combat system was a couple rules away from working well, but the weapons
mix was such that it was BAD (for the firer!) to get a critical success with
most weapons, in that the chances of doing ANY damage actually went down.
Piracy would be much harder pressed to succeed in Alternity than it ever was
in Traveller. The ship-to-ship combat system combined with their technology
mix leads to face-to-face slugging matches. It is near impossible to cripple
one system that can turn a fight, and all engineers have diplomas from
"Scotty's Miracles of Damage Control" correspondence course, so crippling
hits are often shockingly temporary.
Every system for shipbuilding EVER printed for Traveller was superior to the
Alternity system, which failed to answer a number of basic questions any good
shipwright is going to ask. We won't even go into the lack of rules for
anything larger than, say, the Kinunir, and please don't ask about the
recursive docking bays...
GC
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 01:29:55 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Traveller bites the dust?
From: Carl Roger Nilsen
> SJG did a Fallout table version? When? Where is there any
> information about this?
There isn't any info on this, 'cause as I said, it fell through. Fallout was
originally supposed to be the GURPS computer game, and it was supposed to
use the rules for that system. The deal fell through as the release date
drew near and Interplay came up with their own non-GURPS rules and plugged
them into the engine.
In the early development stages of the project which would come to be known
as Fallout the gaming mags referred to it as simply the computer version of
the GURPS roleplaying game. If I remember my gaming lore correctly the deal
got the axe when SJG took objection to some of the content. I could be wrong
on that, though.
The folks at Interplay have said through their web discussion boards that
they have no interest in putting out a pen and paper version, although last
I heard they were not against fans coming up with their own adaptations.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 01:38:25 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Traveller bites the dust?
From: Keith Johnson
> Pick up a book in a couple months and see if you notice the TSR
> logo on it.
I did say that the last I checked there was a TSR. :)
> WotC *is* phasing the TSR imprint out. Ryan Dancey (the WotC
> VP in charge of everything that is related to Dungeons & Dragons)
> has publicly mentioned this in several places, including in the
> Pyramid discussion groups. He also mentioned that WotC is
> petitioning Hasbro to eliminate the WotC logo and simply have a
> Hasbro imprint on every book. However, it seems that Hasbo
> doesn't plan on following through on that.
Interesting, although I have mixed feelings about the future loss of the TSR
imprint.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 01:49:41 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Tell us what you like about Traveller ( was: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
From:
> 2. I like that it *doesn't* try to be cutting edge. The basic
> things that make Traveller..Traveller, are accessible to most anyone
> with any sort of grounding in science fiction. Yes, it is "old
> fashion" science fiction, but that means it is built on well
> understood ideas and the players can concentrate on roleplaying
> not trying to gronk life beyond the Vingian Singularity.
The quaint technology of the Traveller universe may make it easy to
concentrate on roleplaying, although I'm not sure I agree entirely. However,
the sheer complexity and depth of the official Traveller universe both tend
to erase that advantage. In every Traveller game I've ever run I've had to
give out prodigious handouts to bring people up to speed on the official
Traveller universe.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 02:03:47 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Traveller bites the dust?
From: Steven Hudson
> Define "recent"?
Since the WotC takeover.
> Last year on the Greyhawk list some of their writers were defending
> their own output by admitting that while bad, they weren't as utterly
> useless as the previous quarters releases; the membership of the
> list was not arguing :|
I'm not going to comment 'cause the Greyhawk stuff didn't appeal to me too
much. The collected books of magic items and spells are all quite nifty, the
Dragon archives are rather hip, and a number of other minor products which
I've gotten the chance to peruse look pretty good.
The PlaneScape line, though introduced before TSR's purchase (if I remember
correctly) carried through, and from what I've seen the quality has been
consistently good.
> And while some of their new product must be good, the specific
> ones I've seen (25th A. re-releases) were not edifying, as they were
> over-priced and/or simply flung out the door w/o any re-working.
Some 25th anniversary products are supposed to be flung out the door without
any reworking. That's the whole appeal of them (such as the boxed set of
modules). I rather like those which have been reworked. Return to the Tomb
of Horrors was an all-around excellent product. I like what I've seen of the
other Return-style books as well.
> It will be interesting to see how 3ed sells amongst previous
> editions players; inarguably, getting more people into RPG's is a
> Good Thing.
It will be interesting. I'm also interested in seeing how the AD&D movie
will impact the hobby as a whole.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 08:13:08 +0100
From: "Carl Roger Nilsen"
Subject: Re: A New Traveller
Peter Miller wrote:
>What about a Traveller ala Trade Wars 2002 (a BBS game for those not in the
>know); updated of course; incorporating Traveller rules for chargen,
>trading, etc. and the background. Ability to form alliances, etc. But,
>the same idea, whereby all action takes place in space, and in limited ways
>on planets and starports.
Starship Traders would be a better example, I think. It's an online game in the same genre. starshiptraders.com
Carl Roger Nilsen
Vilani: Karukane Shiraagineraager
Zhodani: Irezhrezr Ne'sthlen
Hiver: Carl Roger Nilsen
"Never overlook something that seems to be simple"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 02:20:59 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: One More Time: What do you want in T5?
From: Rob Eaglestone
> Well, since the issue comes up each year, here's the
> latest poll.
>
> What do you want in T5?
Alright, I'll bite.
> I. General
I would love to see clean, professional, competitive presentation of game
books with artwork which is consistent from book to book. A unified look
would be nice. I'd also like to see well organized products worked over by
competent proofreaders and editors.
> II: Characters
A more modular version of the advanced chargen from CT. Ideally, the
character creation system would support random chargen as well as a sort of
sequential point based system, or a mix from term to term. Such a beast *is*
possible. I cobbled such a system together for T4, and with some tweaking it
could have been even better.
> III: Combat
I think that fast paced and deadly combat is a must. Ideally, the combat
system should have a coherent, basic framework to which varying degrees of
complexity can be added if desired.
> IV: Vehicles & Starships
A simple High Guard style creation system which would be backed up by a
supplement similar to TNE's Fire, Fusion and Steel. Various non-canon
technologies should be presented as well so people can easily customize
their own Traveller universes.
> V: Worlds
I'd love to see a return to the "old skool" of early Traveller materials
which mainly consist of guidelines for creating personalized setting. I'm a
huge fan of main rulebooks with as little background material as possible.
> VI: Adventures
I usually don't buy or run prepackaged adventures. The rulebook should
contain a short introductory adventure or two (if each one is really short)
and maybe a page or two of adventure ideas and tips for the GM. There should
be maybe five pages of this stuff, 10 pages max. I can't stand all that
extra baggage in a rule book.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 02:29:08 -0500
From: scott brandsgaard
Subject: marches map in the works
Here's a map I've been working on of the Spinward Marches for a
campaign I hope to run. It combines all that handy UPP info onto a
wall-sized map. About 80x105cm. The Cr0000 number is for base
purchase cost of cargo. I haven't gotten around to doing that part
yet. May also put the WTN numbers in there from GT: Far Trader.
You'll need Acrobat reader or the plugin for your browser. Ya might
want to turn off smoothing of text and images for best viewing.
http://macconnect.com/~buzardb8/spinwardmarches.pdf
=================================================================
"The Universe is, at any time, what you say it is." -James Burke
Scott Brandsgaard mailto:buzardb8@macconnect.com
Space Trader http://macconnect.com/~buzardb8/spacetrader.html
FUDGE TV http://macconnect.com/~buzardb8/fudgetv.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 01:39:01 -0600 (CST)
From: houstonshocky@webtv.net
Subject: Re: Oh My GOD! They Killed Kenny! YOU BASTARDS!
I wonder how to say "Oh My GOD! They Killed Kenny! YOU BASTARDS!" in
Russian
Oh meu deus, mataram Kenny! Os bastardos! (Portugese *G*)
Herregud! De drepte Kenny! BASTARDER!
Oh mein Gott! Sie haben Kenny getoetet! Ihr Bastarde!
In Australian, "Bloody Hell! They Killed that little kid in that bloody
orange parka again! You Bloody Bastards!
Now anyone want to translate it into Vilani and Vargr?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 00:37:36 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: One More Time: What do you want in T5?
> II: Characters
2 Char Creation systems,random and one non random.
Probably the quick category system like Shadowrun III
> III: Combat/Vehicles
Doesn't need mayor improvement.Trvellers basic
strenght.
> I. General
More character than wargame oriented material,like in
Gurps (I realize that customers would probably simply
buy Gurps,so to maintain competitivness,T probably has
to remain strongly wargame-oriented).
It would be ..........nice if the basic rules for once
could contain rules how to play the mayor races( T4
was expecially §&%§%&§&§& in this category).
HACKING RULES,and the Computer Empathy from TNE.
Cyberware rules (also for the other mayor races:even
if it's way out of character,what would a K'kree
cyborg be like?
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 00:56:56 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: Tell us what you like about Traveller ( was: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
> Ok, John, I'm game.
Never had a doubt about it.
Tell me what you like about
> Traveller.
I'looked at your reason for playing traveller and
those are actually in part the things I would like to
see improved.
Travellers real strenght lies in it's
background.That's ,IIRC,is what GURPS has licensed.
Exspecially the Alien Supplements ( I recently managed
to get the collected "Collectors Edition" for a quite
moderate price) are, (well actually were) among the
best RPG supplements ever published.
The 3I (despite the unrealistic explanations for
autocracy( since we play TNE,it doesn't realy matters)
is quite interesting,exspecially it's unique feature
of Earth men as Villains . (Today quite common,but new
in 1977).
The equipment condtruction rules,even if we don't use
them, are also very good.
As a side note,we like the CT moderate Psionic
Rules,which essentially allow a psi only to use his
powers for 2-4 times a game session.
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 00:58:10 -0800
From: "David P. Summers"
Subject: Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
At 7:29 PM -0800 3/8/00, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
>I've talked to several senior citizens about life extension and they
>have all had mixed feelings on the subject. Yes, they would to
>maintain a high quality of life, no they have little interest in an
>extra 10, 20, 50 years if it's in a feeble and painful condition,
>yes they worry about staying in control and not making way from a
>younger generation and as I get older I find I share their concerns.
This is a common misconception. Antiaging technique under research
would be expected to delay infermity as much a death so the extra
years are healthy ones. The governement makes the same
mistake in worrying about caring for the all the new elderly,
the extra years a productive ones.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net. My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 01:16:27 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
- --- "James W. Lindsay" wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Mar 2000 01:13:39 -0800 (PST), john
> hamilton wrote:
>
> > I find it fascinating when people get angry for
> > essentially harmless criticism of unimportant
> things
> > like sports or games,and desperatly trying to
> find
> > some hidden agenda behind it.Very amusing.
>
> Not having seen anything posted by yourself prior to
> this thread, I still
> say you're a troll...
Well, that means you can't say something controversial
until you posted for 1 year or what?( Check the
archives for what were my first topics)
An interesting opinion.Perhaps you are seeing
yourself as some kind of emperor (Strephon,perhaps)
who alone has a right to speak.
This list is very interesting for a Traveller
player,and snoby conspiracy theorists even make it funny.
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 00:07:58 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space
>> I find it fascinating that in one paragraph you condemn the setting for
>> having an absolute dictator, and in the next accuse the game of being too
>> American!
>
>Well, "the US in space" *is* a common (and often deserved) criticism.
>On the other hand Norton's planets and cultures don't suffer from that
>problem most of the time. Neither do Anderson's, Bujold's, Weber's, and
>anybody making that charge against Cherryh hasn't read much!
>
I dare say that The Rowan series (FT&T series, really, counting the pegasus
series) is not "Yanks in Space"; the main FSP setting of McCaffrey really
looks more european than Yank. Both cases, Anne McCaffrey does very
non-yank stuff overall. And the Freedom series has noteably ERADICATED the
US.
Now, Barrayar (Bujold's) government is clearly Imperial Russia done by
Poles (and Greeks).... As for those Jackson's Wholers, I dare say they're
no worse than Barrayar's ImpSec.
And, in the final season of DS9, the federation isn't quite as "Yank-Like"
as some would claim. Makes me wonder if Janeway will recognize the
Federation when voyager gets back.
And, then again, we have Bab-5. Where the Yanks are the BAD guys.
Or Cole and Bunch's Sten Series (Now, sadly, apparently no more... I'd love
to see some non-sten novels in the same universe). The "Eternal Emperor" is
merely a sole-owner corporate monopoly gone haywire...
But, as the troller stated, pop-tv sci-fi is clearly yanks in space these
days. ;)
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 00:13:38 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Gaming Mags
>What's left?
>
>Advertising via poster and flyer in the game store itself? Maybe. Aside from
>informative nature of these ("When's the new ... coming in?"), they don't
>seem to have much reach to new players.
This does work if combined with demos...
>Demo play and sponsored events at game stores? Much better, but harder to
>pull off with RPGs than with (say) CCGs and miniatures "war" games.
>
>Convention exposure? Sure, but only a small part of the gaming populace goes
>to conventions.
>
>Any more ideas?
>
>GC
Yes. THere is a resource which is printed quarterly, attracts a
broad-spectrum readership, and will consider support materials for any game
that won't sue them, and satirizes those that would: Knights of the Dinner
Table. Jolly's really cool about the idea of slowly evolving the comic book
into a real gaming magazine.
Also, diversification of the line: A good, colorful, and CHEAP game with
visual appeal (Say 3d cardboardcounters, which can later be replaced with
minis), visually appealing and simple control sheets, and simple, but
expandable rules... sort of like where Warhammer Fantasy Battles was about
1988, or Battletech in '85... and a strong push and some setting bits in
the minis/boardgame line...
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 00:19:46 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re A Dune Lug
>From: "Garcia, Abel"
>Subject: A DUNE LUG
>
>- -----Original Message-----
>From: Legate Legion [mailto:legate@futureone.com]
>
>Looking at my LUG Star Trek Books (btw, I think MM is working for LUG
>now), it sems to me that it follows the same ideas of character creation as
>Traveller. I.e. youth, education, enlistment. And, as I have just got some
>emails for the people over at LUG today, it seems to me that LUG is still in
>print, & will stay in print for a long time. Also, they will use the same
>basic system in their Dune RPG,...
>
>What is "LUG" and is there really a DUNE RPG or is someone just talking
>about making one?
LUG = Last unicorn Games
LUG-Trek: LUG's liscenced Star-Trek RPG series.
LUG-Dune: LUG's liscenced Dune RPG, in playtest. As yet, It's not hit my
FLGS, but LUG's delivered, albeit usually late, on almost every other
announcement.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 01:29:27 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: Re Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space
- --- "William F. Hostman" wrote:
> >> I find it fascinating that in one paragraph you
> condemn the setting for
> >> having an absolute dictator, and in the next
> accuse the game of being too
> >> American!
well ,I'm fascinated by the lack of understanding a
single sentence.I said that modern SF has a setting
which resembles the USA,as a democratic state ( even
European SF does that).
That someone has read this as criticism is funny,but
that's what games are for:
To have fun( unless you roleplay for the
"unique,serious art of roleplaying" or to simulate the 3I).
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 00:30:16 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Warbots
>Leonard Erickson writes:
>> EMP shielding isn't that difficult IF YOU AREN'T TRANSMITTING OR
>> RECEIVING. Master/slave type warbots *can't* be EMP shielded if they
>> use radio. That's because the shielding would block the radio signals
>> too.
>
>Sure they can be shielded; its just that the antenna needs to be outside of
>the shielding. This does mean you need to add some sort of surge suppressor
>in the antenna, but that's not impossible.
>
>Pure master-slave warbots are a dumb idea anyway, they're vulnerable to a
>wide range of countermeasures.
Easy way to isolate the antenna: a simple optical conversion link. Run it
through the Faraday cage. Sure, you blow the antenna (or maybe it's tube
based... hehehehe), but you still have the rest of the thing shielded.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 00:48:00 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re LUG-Dune & LUG-Trek [ot]
>> My understanding is that Dune is going to use a modified version of
>> the Icon system. As I could care less about roleplaying in the Star
>> Trek universe, I am waiting for LUG to finally print and distribute
>> Dune.
>
>What kind of system is the Icon system? I have not played any of the
>games that LUG produce, so I'm kind of lost here...
LUG's Icon engine is pretty slick, but has a few flaws...
Basics, all based upon LUG-Trek:
Term-oriented CG with point based option; term length is undefined, but is
about 1-6 years. Number of terms is by contract with the GM. Integrated
advantage/disadvantage system.
a multi-d6, take single highest die system. Roll dice based upon attribute,
take the highest single die, and then add skill level. Complications: one
die is an odd color, and if the odd color is a 6, take it plus the highest
remaining die; some advantages have additional dice for certain tasks,
while others are a result modifier added to or subtracted from the
die+skill result. Atts for humans range 1-5, normed at 2; skills run 1-8,
and there are specialties with different levels.
Combat and Wounds: multi-line, with points-per-line being att based; most
races use the same number of lines, and injury effects are based upon how
many lines have been used up. Some maxed out klingons can take an average
hit from a phaser on heavy disrupt-G (which can destroy objects to about
1m^3). Simple and playable.
Lots of INCREDIBLY well done setting and background info.
Illos range from "WOW" to so-so; lots of photos in base rulebooks, and
where appropriate. Overall, better art than SJG, and more of it. And, to be
blunt, unlike SJG or IG, or even TNE-Era GDW, almost all of it is linked to
what's near it in the rules.
Starship Combat in the base TNE book: not for wargamers... simple, easy,
and can readily tie-in PC's. If you want SFB-With-an-integrated-RPG, try
Jovian Chronicles, MegaTraveller, or TNE with Brilliant Lances.
Prices: Slightly higher than I care for. But, they do their homework on
Trek, and apparently will have done so with DUNE.
Personally, I dislike the task system overall, as it just doesn't work well
in play as written. I much prefer JC. Then again, JC's mechanics parallel
something I was working on in 1988... but LUG's task system is readily
adaptable for running Traveller adventures....
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2032
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Traveller-digest Thursday, March 9 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2033
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Traveller / Trade Wars 2002
Re: Question about Odd System Configurations
Re: Alternity...
Re: One Traveller=One Formula...do something about it
Re Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space
Uno, dos, tres; what do you want in T5, Maria?
RE: Impact of Alternate FTL Ideas
Goodbye Again! from Craig Brain
RE: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Chargen
Re: Alternity...
RE: Oh My GOD! They Killed Kenny! YOU BASTARDS!
Re: Tell us what you like about Traveller
Re: and the death of Alternity ?
Re: Oh My GOD! They Killed Kenny! YOU BASTARDS!
RE: One More Time: What do you want in T5?
Fallout RPG was Re: Traveller bites the dust?
Re: One More Time: What do you want in T5?
Re: and the death of Alternity ?
Re: Don't blame me for the subject line
Re: Using no ground troops (/warbots)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 11:08:02 +0100
From: "Carl Roger Nilsen"
Subject: Re: Traveller / Trade Wars 2002
>Rob Eaglestone:
>> Peter Miller: [Traveller ala TW2002]
>
>Excellent idea.
>
>Starports could sell trader ships, and some might even have
>an architect for hire. You'd look for crewmen at the bar.
Starports E2:Frontier style...
>
>Why, your trader could turn rogue and see just how hard it
>is to be a pirate... firsthand... hmmmm....
Winning by violence is easy. Winning peacefully is hard. ;)
>
>Starcharts would be real Traveller sectors, so you can weave
>your plots offline.
Unlike in TW2002, UWP's and multiple planetoids per system might be an idea, too. Unless the concept is a trading game...
>
>Hey! You get one turn per day: once you've jumped, your
>turn is over. Wow, pretty slow game... unless you're an
>Imperial Navy Squadron commander and are moving into
>position on the Zhodani border...
>
>It's still a nontrivial task to write; however, it's very
>do-able... hmmmm! And it can be in Java. Anyone else
>really like this idea?
I don't think a Java game would be much comforting. Rather downloadable client/server programs. Java is OK for games, but it has the potential for big-time suckability when it comes to multiplayer. Then again, it all depends on layout.
My concept :P
Get David Braben and make him construct Multiplayer Elite: The 3rd Imperium. I want the moon on a stick. :]
The MegaTraveller comp game is a nice concept to work from as well.
Inspirational flashes.... don't shoot me.
Carl Roger Nilsen
Vilani: Karukane Shiraagineraager
Zhodani: Irezhrezr Ne'sthlen
Hiver: Carl Roger Nilsen
"Never overlook something that seems to be simple"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 05:11:54 -0500
From: Glenn Grant
Subject: Re: Question about Odd System Configurations
Anthony Jackson asks,
>2) Trojan Worlds: can a planet appear at L3 or L5 for a companion star?
>Not sure if the trojan points apply when the companion mass is a substantial
>fraction of the mass of the primary. Two suns, always separated by 60
>degrees, which could result in a fairly odd day/night cycle.
I asked this same question of fellow Canuck SF writer Jean-Louis Trudel
(degrees in Physics & Astronomy), and he said that for two bodies to
possess Trojan points, they must have something like a 50:1 mass ratio, at
least. Turns out this is only possible if the primary is *extremely*
massive (and thus unhealthy to be close to) and the companion is a brown
dwarf. In any case, companion stars tend to "sweep up" material in a
protosystem, so the chances of a Trojan planet forming at all seem extremly
doubtful.
Too bad, 'cause it's a cool idea, I thought.
>3) Horseshoe worlds: there's a sort of orbit (whose name I don't recall)
>which is co-orbital with another body, but tends to gradually bounce between
>the two trojan points. What sort of period does that have?
Doesn't sound like this would be stable, at least not for long.
Best,
+ GMG +
------------------------Glenn Grant------------------------
"I never travel without my diary. One should always
have something sensational to read." -- Oscar Wilde
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 23:19:37 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Alternity...
On 9 Mar 00, at 1:04, GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:
> On 8 Mar 00, at 22:11, Peter Miller wrote:
>
> > :-( I actually didn't mind Alternity - the rules, not the setting.
>
> Having played in the Alternity DriveSpace setting a bit, I can attest
> that
> it failed several of my basic tests for long-term playability. Even T4
> passed most of these same tests, BTW.
>
> I rather like the collection of aliens in Alternity, and plan to adapt
> most
> of them to Traveller at some point. This is about the only part of the
> game setting and mechanics that I can say that about.
>
> The skill system suffers (suffered) from a number of interlocking ills.
> For
> starters the system is waaay too stingy during character creation. We
> increased the skill points available by nearly 50% and it still wasn't
> enough. Secondly, the skill numbers resembled Basic CT values (mostly
> '1's) but were less useful per point than in TNE, and were blindingly
> expensive to increase. Rabid specialists who still weren't very good at
> their specialty seemed the order of the day as a result. A classic
> Heinlein-style well-rounded
> Hero just isn't possible in Alternity. Space Opera without a stong-jawed
> Rennaisance Man Hero? Preposterous!
>
> The combat system was a couple rules away from working well, but the
> weapons
> mix was such that it was BAD (for the firer!) to get a critical success
> with most weapons, in that the chances of doing ANY damage actually went
> down.
Funny, I thought the secondary damage rules solved that. So did using a
quantum rifle :)
> Piracy would be much harder pressed to succeed in Alternity than it ever
> was
> in Traveller. The ship-to-ship combat system combined with their
> technology mix leads to face-to-face slugging matches. It is near
> impossible to cripple one system that can turn a fight, and all engineers
> have diplomas from "Scotty's Miracles of Damage Control" correspondence
> course, so crippling hits are often shockingly temporary.
Agreed. The only time I ever killed a system was when I blew it right
up.
> Every system for shipbuilding EVER printed for Traveller was superior to
> the
> Alternity system, which failed to answer a number of basic questions any
> good shipwright is going to ask. We won't even go into the lack of rules
> for anything larger than, say, the Kinunir, and please don't ask about the
> recursive docking bays...
The inefficiency of the darn things POed me, too. But the best has to
be the way civilian hulls made better warships than military ones, and
cost less. Now _that's_ how come pirates can get away with it in
Alternity.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 23:24:27 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: One Traveller=One Formula...do something about it
On 8 Mar 00, at 22:34, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
> On 03/09/00 at 04:24 PM, "Rupert Boleyn" said:
>
> >> I always found it easy enough to choose stats or results (eg. world
> >> generation) when I desired. OTOH, TSR's old Star Frontiers game didn't
> >> give any sort of option in the admittedly limited rules that they were
> >> able to publish; I fail to see how giving the option is more limiting?
>
> >But everyone knows that when there's a formula for something you must
> >follow it, even when the game says that you're allowed to ignore results
> >you don't like. Why would CT have included a system using random dice
> >for UWP generation if you were to be allowed to use your imagination
> >instead?
>
> Hee! Hee! If I'd been drinking you'd have gotten a "Splort!"
> As it is, you get a Level II virtual Keyboard of Merit.
Why thankyou. I think that's the first I've ever got. Whenever I try I
fail - now I stop trying and lo! and behold! I suceed. Typical.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 23:36:32 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space
On 9 Mar 00, at 0:07, William F. Hostman wrote:
> Now, Barrayar (Bujold's) government is clearly Imperial Russia done by
> Poles (and Greeks).... As for those Jackson's Wholers, I dare say they're
> no worse than Barrayar's ImpSec.
ImpSec doesn't breed clones for rich clients to have their brain put
into as a form of life extension. Bear in mind that for the clone to be
healthy it has to raised as a normal child, so it has a personality,
etc, etc.
And Bujold does have Yanks in Space - they're called Betans :)
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 12:01:01 +0100
From: "Carl Roger Nilsen"
Subject: Uno, dos, tres; what do you want in T5, Maria?
>What do you want in T5?
>
>There are no wrong answers.
>
>- -Rob
>
>
>I. General
1. Artwork like TNE and GT. Or Michelangelo. :D Or at least something that draws attention and interest.
2. Illustrations hither and dither to easily read the book.
3. Mainbook shall strive to KISS. FFS3 and such can add the advanced stuff. To lure in the newbies.
4. Alternative storylines/settings?
>II: Characters
1. Good ol' career-paths. MT-style. Background for each PC strongly recommended in flavor text everywhere.
1a. An impressive amount of career choices available
2. Fast variant for rapid NPC generation.
3. TNE stat improvement and aging.
4. MT flowchart-style - in a GM screen supplement.
5. TNE task system or adhering to the more popular trends in the market (simplicity über alles).
5a. If high rolls are positive, use multiple dice.
5b. If low rolls are positive, use a single die (or maybe two).
>III: Combat
1. People die. Easily, quickly, messy. Unlike TNE. Realistic (it _is_ hard scifi, after all).
2. Generic weapons = :( . Illustrations to _each_ weapon so characters can relate to it more realistically than a few numbers. A page of statistics encourages rollplaying. It all revolves around character-to-item relationships.
2a. Strongly variable damage ratings, range, ROF, Bulk rating, Recoil, magazine capacity, etc.
2b. Similarity in weapons = bad. Ability to tell an AK from an M16 just by looking at statistics = good.
3. Convertability between small scale (skirmish) and large scale (battle) combat.
3a. Both scales of combat represented in mainbook, and conversion rules too.
>IV: Vehicles & Starships
1. Fire, Fusion & Steel 3 - with the possibility to create an even greater variety of - stuff...
1a. Standards. So people know from where to start.
1b. Alternative Technologies.... Galore.
2. Vastly improved sensor rules. Detail is for Travellerheads, and what are we? Ok, optional they may be.
3. Absolutely no such thing as a reactionless drive!!!
4. Rules for high-velocity TOL for non-grav-enhanced spacevessels.
5. More interesting side-effects of critically failed jumps.
>V: Worlds
1. Generation system: Advanced, realistic, able to kick any other system generation systems' behinds out there, and yet conform nicely into an extended UWP code.
1a. Variety in planetary density!
1b. "Customizable Atmosphere Composition". Causes, effects, probability, etc.
1c. Black holes. Pulsars. WOBAFGKMNS. Ia, Ib, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII (D).
1d. Variable Bode's Law values.
1e. Bring temperature into the generation (like in World Tamer's HB). Useful for finding out if that beach resort planet is really an iceball.
>VI: Adventures
1. Yes, attached to rulebooks as own chapters, rather than as separate publications.
My brain is venting off steam again.
Carl Roger Nilsen
Vilani: Karukane Shiraagineraager
Zhodani: Irezhrezr Ne'sthlen
Hiver: Carl Roger Nilsen
"Never overlook something that seems to be simple"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 03:03:15 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy"
Subject: RE: Impact of Alternate FTL Ideas
>I like the Imperial Secret idea for "wormholes". As far as where to connect
>them, well you could connect all known Ancients' sites and/or Red Zones
>Zane. I would make it so that only small, inanimate, objects could travel
>through these "unknown" wormholes without destruction; perhaps you could
>only use certain containers built by the Ancients...
>Abel
Hmmm, these would actually fall under the 'Stargate/Jumpgate' catagory...
Let's see, furthermore the reason only small inanimate object or certain
containters from the Ancients can travel through them is because of the
detection system put into place by the ancients to prevent unauthorized use
of their gates.
Actually IMTU Stargates do exist, however they've not been discovered, and
the closest one is about three sectors outside the Imperium. The extinct
race that built them had *very* strange environmental requirements and as a
result the gates are likely to have several sectors in between them.
Furthermore any humans would find the planets very inhospitable, in fact
down right deadly.
Of course on the question of "Wormholes" and "Stargates/Jumpgates" there is
something else to be considered. In the case of a "Wormhole" it could be
located anywhere in a system, although I suspect it would have to be away
from any other features in the system. Who knows maybe it would even orbit
the systems Sun (BTW, don't expect any real world physics from me, I don't
know any) like a planet does.
OTOH, as a "Stargate/Jumpgate" would be made by sentient beings, it would
logically be placed to suite those beings needs. In the Traveller Universe
it would have two logical locations. The most logical locations would be
near the planet or near a Gas Giant. By locating it near the Gas Giant
you've got easy access to full. However, I'm inclined to think that from a
non-Strategic point of view (and these would be economically motivated),
that the most logical location would be as close to an inhabited planet.
Who knows in a system with two large inhabited planets it might actually
make sense for both planets to have them, and use them for travel to each
other, and different systems. By having it as close to the planet as
possible you actually achieve the maximum economic benifit. If you can
close it to inbound traffic on demand you actually minimize the strategic
threat that they represent.
Another question as far as "Stargates/Jumpgates" are concerned is
functional. Are they simply one end of a fixed pipe, or can they be
'recalibrated'. If they're a fixed pipe, most systems that have them are
likely to have more than one. If they can be used to travel to any other
system containing one then they probably could be thought of as a computer
modem, in that you dial up your destiation and then the to gates have to go
through a handshaking proceedure in order to properly talk to each other.
I'm not aware of anything on Traveller Canon that says that "Wormholes", or
"Stargates/Jumpgates" can't exist. However, introducing them into an
existing campaign could be very tricky. A situation such as I describe
IMTU is one solution if using gates. If using "Wormholes" the best way of
introducing them is likely to be as a newly discovered phenominon. Hmm,
this could actually make for a great game with the characters being the
crew of a ship searching for and maping Wormholes.
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 14:48:40 +1000
From: "cjbrain"
Subject: Goodbye Again! from Craig Brain
Well, once again I am off overseas and won't have access to my favorite
mailing list. Guys, thanks for everything over the years, I'll be back on
the list in November. Recently I have been disappointed by the personal
animosity being displayed by various members on the list. Take it off-line,
this is not the forum for arguments about who's not being nice and who's
grammar is correct. I bet most people on the list don't want to have to read
that nonsense. This list is about traveller, whatever form it takes this
week. Please don't spoil what we have here.
Warmest regards,
Craig Brain
I can be contacted at:
morbius@venicebeach.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 09:18:30 -0000
From: Matt Bond
Subject: RE: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Legate Legion [mailto:legate@futureone.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2000 2:48 AM
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
>
>
> From: Steve Daniels
>
> >> Actually, I have found that most gamers like the
> Traveller Character
> >> Creation system, as it is almost a game into itself.
> >
> >Amen. What other game has ever had the balls to kill you in chargen?
>
>
> None, other than Traveller.
>
How about Wraith: The Oblivion, or Vampire: the Masquerade...
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 12:21:02 +0100
From: "Carl Roger Nilsen"
Subject: Re: Chargen
>From: Steve Daniels
>Subject: Chargen (long)
>
>Rob Eaglestone wrote:
>
>> I *hope* it will have something like:
>>
>> MT's character generation rules
>>
>
>Ok, I've been meaning to post this for a while, after cleaning it up a bit,
>but since we're discussing things, I might as well share what I have.
>
>A while ago I adapted High Guard for T4, with some things from the
>T5 beta thrown in:
>http://portcaddo.com/bloo/traveller/highgard.htm
>
>I've hinted a couple of times about trying to develop advanced
>chargen for all the careers. And I've actually started. Its rough
>and incomplete, actually, its mostly skill tables. But it has the
>main ideas. One of the main goals was to cut down on the skill
>table sprawl of T4. The idea of the "Life Pursuits" could fit in
>well.
>
>http://portcaddo.com/bloo/traveller/charmenu.htm
>
>Highlights:
Mitch Berg's page at http://www.humanwaredesign.com/t2k has some interesting advanced civilian career options worth a look (and military, for that matter). It's for Twilight:2000, but they can be converted easily.
:)
Carl Roger Nilsen
Vilani: Karukane Shiraagineraager
Zhodani: Irezhrezr Ne'sthlen
Hiver: Carl Roger Nilsen
"Never overlook something that seems to be simple"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 12:56:11 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Re: Alternity...
GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:
> Every system for shipbuilding EVER printed for Traveller was
> superior to the Alternity system, which failed to answer a number of
> basic questions any good shipwright is going to ask.
This doesn't seem *that* hard to imagine, since the rules for
shipbuilding are quite good (except for a number of speling erorrs,
typ0s, and otehr mistak#4.5).
> We won't even go into the lack of rules for anything larger than,
> say, the Kinunir, and please don't ask about the recursive docking
> bays...
What are recursive docking bays?
Seriously, I have no idea. Please tell me.
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 12:33:12 -0000
From: Matt Bond
Subject: RE: Oh My GOD! They Killed Kenny! YOU BASTARDS!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The Roc [mailto:roc@kewl.com.au]
> In Australian, "Bloody Hell! They Killed that little kid in
> that bloody
> orange parka again! You Bloody Bastards!
shouldn't that be more like:
"Strewth! They killed Bruce! Pommie Bastards!"
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 04:44:10 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Tell us what you like about Traveller
>From: "Chris Seamans"
>Subject: Re: Tell us what you like about Traveller ( was: TOP 4 REASONS...
...
>The quaint technology of the Traveller universe may make it easy to
>concentrate on roleplaying, although I'm not sure I agree entirely. However,
>the sheer complexity and depth of the official Traveller universe both tend
>to erase that advantage. In every Traveller game I've ever run I've had to
>give out prodigious handouts to bring people up to speed on the official
>Traveller universe.
That too, is an option, albeit one that I find a problem as well. Given
that my potential player mix includes all sorts of CJ Cherryh ("Downbelow
Station" et al.) fans, I'd very likely choose a nice small area and keep
the info manageable. Now I just need to find the time to do it :(
FWIW, the SJG G:T rulebook makes a great players handbook for background info.
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 04:44:19 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: and the death of Alternity ?
>From: Peter Miller
>Subject: Re: and the death of Alternity ?
>
>:-( I actually didn't mind Alternity - the rules, not the setting.
...
>> > BTW, I saw the funeral announcement of Alternity in rpg.net
>>
>> In what sense - not the OOP type? (I wish...)
I thought that the rules were OK, from the inclusions for "Dungeon" mag
that I read; the setting was hardly an improvement on Star Frontiers - and
given the difference in design resources allocated this says what...?
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 04:44:15 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Oh My GOD! They Killed Kenny! YOU BASTARDS!
>From: houstonshocky@webtv.net
>Subject: Re: Oh My GOD! They Killed Kenny! YOU BASTARDS!
...
>Now anyone want to translate it into Vilani and Vargr?
I don't know _how_ to translate it into K'kree, but I can take a stab at why:
"Quick, dude, _DROP THE HAMBURGER_!!"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 12:36:46 -0000
From: Matt Bond
Subject: RE: One More Time: What do you want in T5?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Eaglestone [mailto:eaglestone@home.net]
> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2000 4:18 AM
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: One More Time: What do you want in T5?
>
>
> Well, since the issue comes up each year, here's the
> latest poll.
>
> What do you want in T5?
>
> There are no wrong answers.
>
> -Rob
Except, perhaps, Virus!!!
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 13:37:55 +0100
From: "Carl Roger Nilsen"
Subject: Fallout RPG was Re: Traveller bites the dust?
>Chris Seamans:
>>Carl Roger Nilsen:
>> SJG did a Fallout table version? When? Where is there any
>> information about this?
>
>There isn't any info on this, 'cause as I said, it fell through. Fallout was
>originally supposed to be the GURPS computer game, and it was supposed to
>use the rules for that system. The deal fell through as the release date
>drew near and Interplay came up with their own non-GURPS rules and plugged
>them into the engine.
>
>In the early development stages of the project which would come to be known
>as Fallout the gaming mags referred to it as simply the computer version of
>the GURPS roleplaying game. If I remember my gaming lore correctly the deal
>got the axe when SJG took objection to some of the content. I could be wrong
>on that, though.
>
>The folks at Interplay have said through their web discussion boards that
>they have no interest in putting out a pen and paper version, although last
>I heard they were not against fans coming up with their own adaptations.
Well, I did some active searching since last time and I found two versions. The first disappointed me to say the least. Instead of picking the rules out of the computer game, it was based on a freeware system called STiRPs. 5 stats: Strength, Speed, Agility, Stamina, Magic and ...*cough*cough*... Skill... Avg 3, Top 5. 'Nuff said, the rest was changed beyond recognition, too, and FO2 wasn't integrated.
The next project I found, only recently, is still in development, and although some details disappointed me here too (like the Rockwell CZ minigun being called Minigun, and the Colt 6520 being called 10mm Pistol, etc.), it is not yet finished, and so much remains to be seen. It adheres to the "original" rules AFAICS, and for a diehard Fallout fan, it touches me (Well, I am diehard Traveller, no need for concern). The editor of the latter seems to be one mr R. Horne Falloutguide@Hotmail.com and the url where this project may be found is http://fallout.gamestats.com/usr/rpg/
On the former project, it is for a PBeM game, and I have the PDF files with rules and all, but I will have to get back on the address, seem to have misplaced it. It's not _that_ bad, really, it just blasphemes Fallout, IMO.
Anyway, I have been considering a TC; Fallout => Traveller for quite some time now, and may end up doing it for the TNE rules or T5 (if it comes out soon enough). GURPS? Well there's probably someone doing the conversion as we speak, if my assumptions are correct. If not, I'll have to start cracking my thumbs and toes.
Carl Roger Nilsen
Vilani: Karukane Shiraagineraager
Zhodani: Irezhrezr Ne'sthlen
Hiver: Carl Roger Nilsen
"Never overlook something that seems to be simple"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 12:09:47 +0000
From: Phil Kitching
Subject: Re: One More Time: What do you want in T5?
"Chris Seamans" wrote:
>From: Rob Eaglestone
>> IV: Vehicles & Starships
>
>A simple High Guard style creation system which would be backed up by a
>supplement similar to TNE's Fire, Fusion and Steel. Various non-canon
>technologies should be presented as well so people can easily customize
>their own Traveller universes.
leave the design system to FF&S3, just include some ship and vehicle designs
and the RPG combat rules.
FF&S3 should be three layered:
description layer - the notes in FF&S on why things work are great.
component layer - pregenerated components for High Guard style design.
(FF&S only had a single laser turret as a worked design,
hardly generous)
detail layer - FF&S3 in all its equations, for building your own modules.
Phil Kitching
- --
http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
"Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 04:54:12 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: and the death of Alternity ?
>From: "Rupert Boleyn"
>Subject: Re: and the death of Alternity ?
...
>Yes. They're winding up the Alternity product line, citing its lack of
>profitablity. See rec.games.frp.misc.
Hmm, so the evident lack of sales in local stores wasn't my imagination?
FWIW, this hopefully means that I'll stop having to pay for the Alternity
crap that they've been putting in their _Dungeon_ magazine lately :)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 04:54:19 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Don't blame me for the subject line
>From: "Scout Harris"
>Subject: Re: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000 - Don't blame me for the
subject line
...
>Ohh... nice.... now we have an autocrat who has bankrupted himself to get
some political clout... but if he succeeds then his finacial problems are
solved. Unfortunatly he knows his rival (another rich autocrat) is going to
vote against him.
You've just achieved understanding of the basic dynamics of post-colonial
Spanish Central American politics :)
Luckily, this sort of pathology does not occur in Traveller :|
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 04:54:26 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Using no ground troops (/warbots)
>From: sneadj@mindspring.com
>Subject: Re: Using no ground troops
...
>Once the conquest was complete, I wold expect regular police
>forces to move in. Their work would be supplemented and aided by
>the warbots (which would likely allow the conqueror to use a
>soewhat smaller number of police). However, their primary role
>would be conquest.
I'm not sure that the use of warbots proper (as opposed to "dumb"
sensors, or even sensors & analysis gear requiring a sophont in the
loop) will make a huge difference, beyond a few obvious ones (bomb
disposal, or sweeping a storm sewer, etc.). If so then it could just
be a cultural/political decision - the Zho's use them because they
don't believe in wasting human lives, while the 3I has no meaningful
limit to its Army manpower wrt attrition (the Marines' attitude may
differ :> ), and no real political costs to the system for the loss
of personnel in expected operations (which in the 3I includes many
brushfire wars or other conflicts; the use of mercenaries further
distances the consequences, if desired).
For Aslan, K'kree, many Vargr, and possibly lots of human societies,
the idea of replacing traditional soldiers with additional hardware -
however reliable - may not be at all keenly accepted.
And the Hivers _claim_ to be cowards...
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2033
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Traveller-digest Thursday, March 9 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2034
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Using no ground troops
Re: marches map in the works
Soldiers
RE: Impact of Alternate FTL Ideas
Re: marches map in the works
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Chargen (long)
RE: Question about Odd System Configurations
Re: and the death of Alternity ?
Traveller TradeWars
Re: warbots
Re: warbots
Re: marches map in the works
RE: Warbots
Re: marches map in the works
Re: Traveller bites the dust?
Traveller Online
Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
Re: Psychological Effects of an Invasion (was: no ground troops)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 05:39:54 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Using no ground troops
>From: sneadj@mindspring.com
...
>3) If the warbots are all master-slave units you will have images of
>what is happening when any warbot is killed. Therefore,
>investigating such incidents would be quite easy. Throw in good
>facial recognition software (which doesn't need to be much better
>than we have today) and the robots can even do much of the investigation.
These robots are of the "Argus" class, and have telescopic recorders
in all directions? They map obscured/masked faces how?
>4) Warbots never harm of kill civilians because they have a bad
>day, and they never randomly destroy or steal property.
I wonder if Bad Days aren't more tolerable than "they blew up the building
with the kindergarten in it _because they were programmed to_!! (ignoring
the sniper whose real position was occluded by said building...)"?
...
>are for. Given that they will not be in an actual war zone they're in
>a position to be much more sympathetic to the conquered people.
>
>If the robots stun and apprehend anyone carrying weapons, destroy
>all weapons not in the hads of the administrators, kill only to
>protect lives, I see them as being considerably less unpopular than
>most invading armies. Even if they merely warn anyone carrying a
>weapon to drop it and then kill them, they are not worse than most
>invading armies.
Again, these are meant to be the auxiliaries handling occupation
policing, after the real resistance has been shattered by sophont
or robot ground troops, yes? Otherwise the area will be a war zone
at any time that the locals choose - for their own advantage.
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 08:44:41 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford
Subject: Re: marches map in the works
At 02:29 AM 03/09/2000 -0500, Scott wrote:
>Here's a map I've been working on of the Spinward Marches for a campaign I
>hope to run. It combines all that handy UPP info onto a wall-sized map.
>About 80x105cm. The Cr0000 number is for base purchase cost of cargo. I
>haven't gotten around to doing that part yet. May also put the WTN numbers
>in there from GT: Far Trader.
++Good! THIS is what's so neat about the TML!
Bill Rutherford
worj@home.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 09:01:44 -0500
From: "Chris Dixon"
Subject: Soldiers
>My point was this, while there are many soldiers who serve with
>distinction and honor, there are also many who in ugly situations do ugly
>things (not to mention those who are merely bordering on or are firm
>psychos). History shows us over and over again, from the troops of Xerxes,
>to the carpet bombing of cities on *both sides* of WWII, to "Peace
>Keeping" missions in Somalia, or even Kosovo.
>Some people have funny concepts concerning concerning war. It's a nasty
>(if necessary) thing. There is mounting evidence of the U.S. using anthrax
>(placed on turkey feathers in leaflet bombs) in the "Korean War", despite
>the ban on the use of such things (just an example of gov't dupliucity
>versus singular), not to mention the slaughter of civilans that occured
>in Korea and Vietnam.
>So I'm sorry if you take great umbrage to my former statement, it is
>however valid IMO. When people are under tremendous stress and life and
>limb are at risk, they can (and sometimes do) become capable of atrocity,
>whether they are UN, NATO, Soviet, Viet Cong, Khmer Rouge, etc.
>Ray
I don't disagree with what you're saying, what I did not agree with was the stament that a soldier is a soldier
which implied IMO that all soldiers are alike.
Maybe I was having a bad morning, maybe I just misread your "intent" which is all too easy on a Mail list, who
knows. In any case I've managed to stray off topic long enough (and got to vent my spleen in the process) so
it's back to that "dead game" Traveller.
- -Chris
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 21:59:09 -0800
From: "Antony Farrell"
Subject: RE: Impact of Alternate FTL Ideas
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Rob
> Eaglestone
> Sent: Wednesday, 8 March 2000 10:31 AM
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: Re: Impact of Alternate FTL Ideas
>
>
>
> sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> >
> > The 1 week/jump does a reasonable job of recreating pre-telegraph
> > 18th-19th century transportation and communication speeds. So,
> > what effect would other options have? I'm wondering what a SF
> > setting would be like if jumps took say 2 months each, or if some
> > form of stargates were used which allowed transport from any
> > system with a gate to any other system with a gate, but the travel
> > time though the gate was on the order of 4-6 months.
>
> Seems to me that this would be like the countries before the
> telegraph... think of each world as a country during the Middle
> Ages.
>
> Stargates are cool, and actually exist in the Traveller Universe
> (though starship-sized matter portals are Very High Tech), and
> in fact I'm not sure if they function with jump mechanics or
> with some other medium.
>
> At any rate, it is Traveller do-able to have a civilization that
> never discovered the jump drive, yet has learned how to build
> stargates. Sort of like Fading Suns, eh? I believe another TML'er
> has been toying with some such alternate universe...
>
Well in MTU I use stargates alongside jump drive. The principle effect of
having both is to do strange things to borders. States end up with odd
worlds near stargates because they were the only known destinations for the
gates found in their home systems.
Antony Farrell
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 08:20:36 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: marches map in the works
scott brandsgaard wrote:
>
> Here's a map I've been working on of the Spinward Marches for a
> campaign I hope to run. It combines all that handy UPP info onto a
> wall-sized map. About 80x105cm. The Cr0000 number is for base
> purchase cost of cargo. I haven't gotten around to doing that part
> yet. May also put the WTN numbers in there from GT: Far Trader.
You might also want to take a look at Terry Mixon's SM map, which
includes major trade routes calculated IAW GT: Far Trader.
http://www.ghg.net/tmixon/Trade/
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 09:20:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Houghton
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Howdy!
Orbiting mind control satellites caused M. Hamilton to write:
> --- "James W. Lindsay" wrote:
> > On Wed, 8 Mar 2000 01:13:39 -0800 (PST), john
> > hamilton wrote:
> >
> > > I find it fascinating when people get angry for
> > > essentially harmless criticism of unimportant
> > things
> > > like sports or games,and desperatly trying to
> > find
> > > some hidden agenda behind it.Very amusing.
> >
> > Not having seen anything posted by yourself prior to
> > this thread, I still
> > say you're a troll...
>
> Well, that means you can't say something controversial
> until you posted for 1 year or what?( Check the
> archives for what were my first topics)
>
> An interesting opinion.Perhaps you are seeing
> yourself as some kind of emperor (Strephon,perhaps)
> who alone has a right to speak.
>
> This list is very interesting for a Traveller
> player,and snoby conspiracy theorists even make it funny.
Well, to take your remarks at face value:
When one is joining a new community of discourse (newsgroup,
mailing list, group conversation, etc.), one ought to observe
for a bit to discern more clearly the nature of the conversations.
To make one's introduction to the group take the form of
"Mr. Hand Grenade (minus Mr. Pin)" suggests that one cares not
for the established pattern of discourse. That is rude.
Rude behavior elicits a range of responses, from disbelief to
rage to derision. Some people even attempt to offer constructive
criticism, in the attempt to bring the participant into the
fold.
Now, this is not to suggest that "controversial" topics are to
be avoided. As you can well see by browsing the archives, the TML
has seen its share of "lively discussions".
Your post that started this thread had the appearance of a troll.
Your subsequent responses suggest that you have some difficulty
taking criticism. Your initial thesis certainly sparked some
interesting discussion, regardless of its merits (or lack of; I
don't care which applies). However, your followup messages lack
intellectual rigor; they stray into ad hominem territory rather
than addressing the substantive issues raised.
By and large, the response to you has been quite restrained.
Take some time to rethink your tactics and rhetoric. Become
a productive member.
yours,
Michael
- --
Michael and MJ Houghton | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@radix.net | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
| http://www.radix.net/~herveus/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 08:22:42 -0600
From: Rob Eaglestone
Subject: Re: Chargen (long)
Steve has begun to work T4.1 into the advanced chargen
system. I think most of us agree that this kind of
detail is to be much desired in Traveller.
I do have a couple of suggestions, though.
1. Keep the military rank names as they are.
2. Where two careers differ by less than some delta,
re-merge them rather than forcing them to be
different by arbitrary rules [with so many career
branches this might happen].
3. Steve, how does your High Guard chargen work differently
from MT's system? A summary paragraph at the front
briefly explaining what you had to change would help me
understand it better.
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 14:30:38 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter"
Subject: RE: Question about Odd System Configurations
Glenn Grant wrote:
> Anthony Jackson asks,
> > 2) Trojan Worlds: can a planet appear at L3 or L5 for a
> > companion star? Not sure if the trojan points apply when
> > the companion mass is a substantial fraction of the mass
> > of the primary. Two suns, always separated by 60 degrees,
> > which could result in a fairly odd day/night cycle.
>
> I asked this same question of fellow Canuck SF writer Jean-Louis
> Trudel (degrees in Physics & Astronomy), and he said that for
> two bodies to possess Trojan points, they must have something
> like a 50:1 mass ratio, at least. Turns out this is only
> possible if the primary is *extremely* massive (and thus
> unhealthy to be close to) and the companion is a brown dwarf.
> In any case, companion stars tend to "sweep up" material in a
> protosystem, so the chances of a Trojan planet forming at all
> seem extremly doubtful.
>
> Too bad, 'cause it's a cool idea, I thought.
Minor points: The Trojan points are L4 (leading) and L5
(trailing). These are the only two stable LaGrange Points. L3
is an unstable LaGrange Point in the same orbit as the companion
star (in this case) but on the opposite side to the primary.
According to my info the companion star would have to be 4% the
mass of the primary (or 25:1) ... that eases things a little
compared with 50:1 but not much. The Trojan Point object(s) have
to be of negligible mass in comparison.
> > 3) Horseshoe worlds: there's a sort of orbit (whose name I
> > don't recall) which is co-orbital with another body, but
> > tends to gradually bounce between the two trojan points.
> > What sort of period does that have?
>
> Doesn't sound like this would be stable, at least not for long.
I remember this one ... and now I can't find the b***** url for
it! There is an asteroid in a bizarre orbit with Earth that
makes little spirals as it moves back and forth between L4 and L5
(the long way round). Apparently it is stable. I strongly
suspect that 'horseshoe worlds' must also be of negligible mass
(just as Trojan Point objects).
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 09:47:59 -0500
From: Peter Miller
Subject: Re: and the death of Alternity ?
I actually did some of the early playtesting on it. I've still got a
binder with the photocopied beta rules sent to me from TSR. During my
playtesting I used the Traveller universe (loosely) a couple of times to
run an adventure or two.
What I liked was the single mechanic rules. Once you had mastered one
idea, you had the entire thing understood.
Peter
At 04:22 PM 3/9/00 +1300, you wrote:
>On 8 Mar 00, at 22:11, Peter Miller wrote:
>
> > :-( I actually didn't mind Alternity - the rules, not the setting.
>
>I rather liked the rules, and the setting wasn't too bad, but it just
>didn't really grab me, and from the sales it didn't grab anyone else,
>either. IMO it made a fine space opera in the softer "Star Wars" sense.
>Like the old FGU game _Space Opera_.
>
>--
>"Rupert Boleyn"
>
>An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 08:47:37 -0600
From: Rob Eaglestone
Subject: Traveller TradeWars
I suppose such a program would need well-organized data.
Sector data is free, of course. But ship profiles would
have to be designed... and I don't know if High Guard is
overkill or underkill, or both... after all, isn't armor
and structure both important? And aren't laser batteries
of different strengths nice?
Then you also have owner/captain profiles, which would
correspond to the player.
Oh heck. Well maybe a first pass will have the bare
minimum then.
- -------------------------------------
# instance
Name= Class= Lasers= Missiles= Sand=
# class
Class= Tons= Jump= Manu= Pow= Crew= Pass= Low= Cargo= Fuel=
# instance
Player= Age= Credits=
- -------------------------------------
If I had an XML parser module...
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 09:54:30 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: Re: warbots
Douglas E. Berry writes:
>>>I still own everything worth having then. Like cities, factories, the
>>>starport...
>> He did say "most of the robots," but your point is well taken.
>> Would it be practical to use a blanket of cheaper slave warbots
>> hovering at 5-50 m, with more expensive teams digging out the
>> resistence?
>I defend one out of every 20 buildings. That building is a bloody fortress.
>the other buildings have either booby traps, or one guy with a rifle to
>force you to expend a lot of effort thinking that you've hit a pocket of
>resitence.
There is no doubt that digging out well-prepared defenders from a
city is very difficult, but this difficulty is not unique to warbots.
>All that's happened here is that the invader has traded the chance for a
>direct military victory for an extended urban slugfest. Read up on
>Stalingrad or the Battle of Hue (1968) to see how bloods such fights can
>get. You also run the rsik of destroying any industrial resources you may
>have come for.
I have read up on Stalingrad etc., and am well aware of the problems
associated with such situations. In the end, however, if you want
those industrial resources you are going to have to consider armed
invasion. There are alternatives, but these have not proved any more
effective in the past.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 09:54:35 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: Re: warbots
Steven Hudson writes:
>> He did say "most of the robots," but your point is well taken.
>> Would it be practical to use a blanket of cheaper slave warbots
>> hovering at 5-50 m, with more expensive teams digging out the
>> resistence?
> Not if your victims have much military hardware; a TL C PD kit sweeps
>_10d6_ artillery shells out of the air in a turn (30s, IIRC), or about
>one per second. Naturally, the PD weapon might want a Penetration of
>about 30 or so - enough to kill a major AFV with each hit...
All greek to me, I'm an old CT fart :)
> But there's little point to flying high anyway; the issue is what the
>warbots will do at ground level, and as the answer is "fight", then our
>next concern is "how much better/worse than sophonts"?
Yes, that is one of two questions that I would like addressed. The
other is, are master-slave systems usable in warbots?
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 10:13:56 -0500
From: scott brandsgaard
Subject: Re: marches map in the works
At 08.44 -0500 03.09.00, Bill Rutherford wrote:
>++Good! THIS is what's so neat about the TML!
>
Thanks! I thought it was about time I contributed something after
seeing all the great stuff everyone else does.
At 08.20 -0600 03.09.00, Black ICE wrote:
>You might also want to take a look at Terry Mixon's SM map, which
>includes major trade routes calculated IAW GT: Far Trader.
>
>http://www.ghg.net/tmixon/Trade/
>
Yeah, that map is cool. Having the trade routes included would be
handy and it had crossed my mind after seeing Terry's map. Also the
previous discussion about a color coded map could possibly be
incorporated. So the next stage of the map may have those tidbits
added.
And just to make things difficult for myself; imagine if you could
click on a system and it would take you to a full write up.
=================================================================
"The Universe is, at any time, what you say it is." -James Burke
Scott Brandsgaard mailto:buzardb8@macconnect.com
Space Trader http://macconnect.com/~buzardb8/spacetrader.html
FUDGE TV http://macconnect.com/~buzardb8/fudgetv.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 10:18:19 -0500
From: "James Fleming"
Subject: RE: Warbots
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01BF89B0.CA648D20
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I don't know if I may have missed this in a previous post but how would =
just regular logistics (repair, maintenance, rearming) be handled for =
the robots? I'm assuming you're only sending down warbots and not a =
support crew. I you are in fact sending down a crew, I wouldn't even =
bother targeting the warbots. Just my $.02
Jim=20
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
- ---------------
Duke, if God almighty could turn himself into a man with all that power =
still inside him and some dude asked him to fight, who would win?
Hey! That wouldn't be a fair fight! The God-man would kill him, it'd =
be like fighting the bionic man...only worse!
- "The Sissy" by Jack Chick
- ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01BF89B0.CA648D20
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
I don't know if I may have missed this in a previous =
post but=20
how would just regular logistics (repair, maintenance, rearming) be =
handled for=20
the robots? I'm assuming you're only sending down warbots and not =
a=20
support crew. I you are in fact sending down a crew, I wouldn't =
even=20
bother targeting the warbots. Just my $.02
Jim
size=3D2>----------------------------------------------------------------=
- ------------------------
Duke,=20if God almighty could turn himself into a man with all that power still = inside=20 him and some dude asked him to fight, who would win?
Hey! That =wouldn't=20be a fair fight! The God-man would kill him, it'd be like fighting = the=20bionic man...only=20worse!
&nb=sp; =20- - "The Sissy" by Jack Chick
- ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01BF89B0.CA648D20--
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 08:33:42 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz
Subject: Re: marches map in the works
scott brandsgaard wrote:
>
> Here's a map I've been working on of the Spinward Marches for a
> campaign I hope to run. It combines all that handy UPP info onto a
> wall-sized map. About 80x105cm. The Cr0000 number is for base
> purchase cost of cargo. I haven't gotten around to doing that part
> yet. May also put the WTN numbers in there from GT: Far Trader.
Awesome! This would be a very useful tool for me.
May I make a request, though? Could the background be changed to white?
That way I don't spend $$$$ on toner trying to print it all.
- --
Erwin Fritz
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 09:48:19 -0600
From: Bill Dunn
Subject: Re: Traveller bites the dust?
I don't know the new Greyhawk stuff either but the encyclopedic sources (the
spell compendiums, magic item encyclopedia) have been excellent. Sure, it's
mostly reprinted material but the value is in the fact that it's all
compiled and indexed so that I don't have to hunt through years of old
material to pull together my information.
I hated the Planescape line, actually. But that's my tastes.
The 25th anniversary reworkings have also been very good, particularly the
Keep on the Borderlands which is much more imaginative than the original. I
have to wonder if the original poster has actually spent time looking at all
of the new stuff. From my perspective, since being bought by WotC (bastard
upstarts that they are), TSR has largely gotten back on track with quality
work. Hey, it doesn't hurt that the Forgotten Realms setting is being
shelved.
Now if only they'd make the Dragon a general game magazine again instead of
a house-organ, things would be even better. How many people remember being
attracted to Traveller via articles in the Dragon? That's how I found out
about and bought the CT box. If it hadn't been for Dragon, I might not have
picked up Traveller. Now, I've got all those old articles on the Dragon CD
compilation (complete with old ads, boy some of those old ones are
humorously amateurish now).
I am, however, looking at the 3rd edition of AD&D dubiously (kind of like I
looked at T4 when I realized it involved half-dice for task resolution...).
After the Players Option stuff, I don't have a lot of faith in all of their
design teams. But that was also all started long before WotC bought them and
they may have gotten their heads screwed back on right.
Now that collectible card games are largely sucking the cash from younger
kids (and their parents) rather than the prime RPG demographics, perhaps
we'll see a bit more of a renaissance in the RPGs. Traveller certainly is on
the right track. And with many wargames getting a new lease on life through
Multi-Man Publishing (contracted with Hasbro to do Advanced Squad Leader,
Great Battles of the Civil War, PanzerBlitz, PanzerLeader, and Up Front, as
well as others), adult gamers may find our hobbies improving for a while.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't keep up the pressure for more and better
things though...
- -----Original Message-----
>Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 02:03:47 -0500
>From: "Chris Seamans"
>Subject: Re: Traveller bites the dust?
>
>From: Steven Hudson
>
>> Last year on the Greyhawk list some of their writers were defending
>> their own output by admitting that while bad, they weren't as utterly
>> useless as the previous quarters releases; the membership of the
>> list was not arguing :|
>
>I'm not going to comment 'cause the Greyhawk stuff didn't appeal to me too
>much. The collected books of magic items and spells are all quite nifty,
the
>Dragon archives are rather hip, and a number of other minor products which
>I've gotten the chance to peruse look pretty good.
>
>The PlaneScape line, though introduced before TSR's purchase (if I remember
>correctly) carried through, and from what I've seen the quality has been
>consistently good.
>
>> And while some of their new product must be good, the specific
>> ones I've seen (25th A. re-releases) were not edifying, as they were
>> over-priced and/or simply flung out the door w/o any re-working.
>
>Some 25th anniversary products are supposed to be flung out the door
without
>any reworking. That's the whole appeal of them (such as the boxed set of
>modules). I rather like those which have been reworked. Return to the Tomb
>of Horrors was an all-around excellent product. I like what I've seen of
the
>other Return-style books as well.
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 09:48:07 -0600
From: Rob Eaglestone
Subject: Traveller Online
The itty bitty beginnings of a web-based Traveller-Tradewars
hybrid is up. It does practically nothing... it is a tiny
homespun http server with one HTML page in the root directory.
Surf over and enjoy the minimalism before the system crashes
(the hardware is a little flaky; I'm upgrading next week).
http://24.11.28.233/index.html
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 07:55:42
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
At 09:29 PM 3/8/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>I've talked to several senior citizens about life extension and they
>have all had mixed feelings on the subject. Yes, they would to
>maintain a high quality of life, no they have little interest in an
>extra 10, 20, 50 years if it's in a feeble and painful condition,
>yes they worry about staying in control and not making way from a
>younger generation and as I get older I find I share their concerns.
You have hit the nail on the head here. One overriding concern during my
cancer treatments has been the quality of life issue. To be blunt, at what
point am I better off dead?
Medical science can keep alive for a long time, but there would come a
point where that life wouldn't be worth it either due to pain or inability
to do anything more than be a bedridden husk. That's a question that would
have to be answered if these anagathics were suddenly available.
For myself, I'm not sure I'd want to live another hundred years in my
current state of health. If the drug took me back to a pre-Hodgkin's state,
then I'm first in line!
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
Egotist: a person more interested in himself than in me.
- -- Ambrose Bierce
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 08:01:34
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Psychological Effects of an Invasion (was: no ground troops)
At 11:54 AM 3/9/2000 +1300, you wrote:
>> You have a point there... I wonder how history would have been changed if
>> they hadn't signed the WWI armistace until they had invaded Germany. This
>> would have eliminated the "we were never defeated on the battlefield; the
>> German Army was stabbed in the back" excuse...
>
>But not the "We were humiliated by the agreement that was forced on us"
>one. Or the "These war reparations are destroying our country and the
>German people" one.
But perhaps the invasion of and occupation of Germany in 1918-189 would
have satiated the French desire for revenge, and lessened the impact of the
treaty on Germany.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2034
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Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #2034
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Subj: Traveller-digest V1999 #2035
Date: 3/9/00 10:20:45 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)
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Traveller-digest Thursday, March 9 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2035
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Warbots
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Traveller dead? - a clarification
Re: Traveller Went Down?
Re: Warbots
Re: Traveller bites the dust?
Re: GT: Solomani Rim now in playtest
Re: Traveller bites the dust?
Re: Traveller bites the dust?
Re: Alternity...
Re: marches map in the works
[OT] New Zealand's Defence Spending
Re: Question about Odd System Configurations
Re: Books, Games and the Web
76 Editions
Re: 76 Editions
RE: Why Traveller still survives...
Imperial IDs and real world technology
Re: marches map in the works
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Warbots
Re: 76 Editions
Re: marches map in the works
Re: marches map in the works
Re: marches map in the works
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 11:13:42 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Warbots
From: James Fleming
> I don't know if I may have missed this in a previous post but how
> would just regular logistics (repair, maintenance, rearming) be
> handled for the robots? I'm assuming you're only sending down
> warbots and not a support crew. I you are in fact sending down a
> crew, I wouldn't even bother targeting the warbots. Just my $.02
I'm not up to speed on the discussion so far, but there are different ways
in which the warbots may be designed and used. For example, they could be
for the most part disposable. Repair, maintenance, re-arming all become
muted issues with disposable 'bots.
"Just drop 'em and forget 'em."
- from the brochure for the Ling-Standard "Argive" line of warbots.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 08:10:46
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
At 11:14 PM 3/8/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
#5 It decided it didn't want to be a good game all its life (ref: "Saturday
Night Fever")
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 08:14:05
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
At 01:16 AM 3/9/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>Well, that means you can't say something controversial
>until you posted for 1 year or what?( Check the
>archives for what were my first topics)
Controversial is alright, being an insulting little snot is not acceptable.
We have disaggreements here on a regular basis.
>An interesting opinion.Perhaps you are seeing
>yourself as some kind of emperor (Strephon,perhaps)
>who alone has a right to speak.
Please, go to WalMart. They have a special on clues. We gave your posts a
reasonable hearing, responded, and you got insulting. We have therefore
labeled you as a troll. and you aren't doing anything to make us feel any
different.
>This list is very interesting for a Traveller
>player,and snoby conspiracy theorists even make it funny.
My dear sir, you are the *only* person who claims that you are part of a
conspiracy! We just consider you to be rude.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 08:28:21
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Traveller dead? - a clarification
At 12:07 AM 3/9/2000 GMT, you wrote:
One thing.. please use the standard forms for quoting. Your text and mine
are mixed together.
>Mr. Berry wrote:
>>Talk to Marc. He owns the game. He controls to licence. If Marc were to
>>tell me to take down every Traveller reference on The Silly Era, I'd have
>>no choice but to comply.
>
>The Rennaisance ought not to mean just the reintroduction of CT but the
>whole reinvention of the world. It should be a flowering of all different
>types of Traveller milieus and a proliferation of different settings. A
>sort of hybrid of the frontier & the core...compoinents of each make a
>successful science fiction game.
Which is one of the things that killed TSR. Dozens of different settings
for ADnD that flopped, while the Forgotten Realms keep thriving.
>>Anyway, what's this "we" stuff? We don't own the game. Marc and Loren
>>graciously allow us to put up web pages about the game, encourage us to
>>write for the game (the new JTAS online will accept articles about any
>>edition of the game), and Loren even hires us to write the sourcebooks!
>>The next edition of traveller is firmly in the hands of one person: Marc
>>Miller. That is something you have to understand. We can wail all we want,
>>but in the end, it is his game.
>
>As much as it is Marc & Loren's game it is our game as well. As fans, I
>think we have to be more vocal about the type of game we would like to see.
If you have been here for three years, then you have seen Marc posting
entire chapters of T4.1 draft for commentary and review. Several GT books
have been written by list members, along with several of the BITS books.
But in the end, it isn't *ours*. The writers have an obligation to produce
product that will please the fans, but in the end it is Marc and Loren who
have the final say.
Case in point: When I was discussing my proposal for Ground forces on the
list, there was *violent* disagreement from a few people over my view of
the Imperial Marines. Evidently, what I saw was 180 degrees from what they
saw.
But since I was writing the book, it's my view that has gone to Loren for
review. If he and Marc tell me to change it, I will have to do it. But
let's say that they love my work, and it goes to press just the way I wrote
it.
There is no law saying you have to use that book.
>This way avoid some of the pitfalls of the past and build a better game. I
>am very happy to see JTAS has returned and I probably contribute.
Great! I'm writing a few articles myself.
>We do. Have you cruised the Traveller Web Ring?
>
>I have and it is very impressive. What I advocate is that we ought to see
>more of that in print.
The stuff on my site is the stuff I either couldn't get printed in a
million years (the Silly Era), or stuff that I want to keep under my
control (the forthcoming Illuminated page).
- --
Douglas E. Berry Templar Agent at Large.
gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
TravGeekCode:
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 08:40:16
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Traveller Went Down?
At 11:06 PM 3/8/2000 +0000, you wrote:
>But if it's true then it's a dead Emperor Penguin - the Zombie
>Revenant Emperor Penguin Strephon, controlled by the
>Arch-Inquisitor-Maximus Berry of the Reformed Canon Church of
>Sylea....
He's passed on! This Penguin is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's
expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e
rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up
the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig!
'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the
curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-PENGUIN!!
and now for something completely different..
"It is by penguins alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the
Adelies that thoughts acquire flippers, the flippers acquire feathers, and
the stomach acquires herring. It is by penguins alone I set my
mind in motion."
This post brought to you by the letters "A", "C", and "Q", and the number
5.56mm. After 5pm, 23. Fnord. Not valid in Canada, bits of it anyway.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"Pardon me, excuse me, Giant vampiric flightless winged
squirrel, coming through.." -Tim the Paladin, "Yamara"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 08:54:50
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Warbots
At 11:13 AM 3/9/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>I'm not up to speed on the discussion so far, but there are different ways
>in which the warbots may be designed and used. For example, they could be
>for the most part disposable. Repair, maintenance, re-arming all become
>muted issues with disposable 'bots.
But that still leaves the invader off world, not in a position to claim
control of anything.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 11:56:56 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller bites the dust?
In a message dated 3/9/00 3:52:03 PM !!!First Boot!!!, bdunn@epicsystems.com
writes:
<< And with many wargames getting a new lease on life through
Multi-Man Publishing (contracted with Hasbro to do Advanced Squad Leader,
Great Battles of the Civil War, PanzerBlitz, PanzerLeader, and Up Front, as
well as others), adult gamers may find our hobbies improving for a while.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't keep up the pressure for more and better
things though... >>
Do you have a website address for Multi-Man Publishing?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 19:46:18 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Re: GT: Solomani Rim now in playtest
At 02:45 09.03.00, you wrote:
> >>>
>According to the 8 Mar 00 _Daily Illuminator_, GT: Rim of Fire, their
>Solomani Rim sourcebook, is now in playtest.
>
>And it is good. Kickass good.
And the most important question (to me) (besides: When will it be out?)
is: does it further the plotline, like BTC did?
Other questions include: Is it more a general description of a
world-by-world description (like BTC)?
And finally: I envy all you playtesters ;-)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 19:52:53 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Re: Traveller bites the dust?
At 06:12 09.03.00, you wrote:
>Chris Seamans wrote:
> >TSR is also rising to the challenge and making a strong attempt to win over
> >computer game players with a good deal of success by licensing their game
> >worlds and rules to competent companies. SJG tried this with Fallout, but it
> >unfortunately fell through.
>
>SJG did a Fallout table version? When? Where is there any information
>about this?
Nope, initially Fallout was supposed to be a licensed GURPS PC game. When
the deal fell through, the GURPS elements were removed or changed.
Still, the Chargen did still resemble a greatly simplyfied GURPS CharGen,
don´t you agree?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 20:00:31 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Re: Traveller bites the dust?
>The PlaneScape line, though introduced before TSR's purchase (if I remember
>correctly) carried through, and from what I've seen the quality has been
>consistently good.
Hmm, horribly overpriced sourcebooks to finance full-color page layouts
(which i don´t really need, content is much more important to me) that left
less space for actual content?
I really liked the design, it was truly beautiful, as a book, but less
desirable than other books, as it often lacked in content.
Give me GURPS supplements. Now those do have a good content to design ratio.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 19:55:58 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Re: Alternity...
BTW: Does the end of Alternity mean large helpings of cheap SciFi RPG
Sourcebooks in the Bargain bins?
If so, i´d like to know which books might be useable for Traveller.
Sourcebooks, Adventures, Deckplans...?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 20:31:23 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Re: marches map in the works
At 08:29 09.03.00, you wrote:
>Here's a map I've been working on of the Spinward Marches for a campaign I
>hope to run. It combines all that handy UPP info onto a wall-sized map.
>About 80x105cm. The Cr0000 number is for base purchase cost of cargo. I
>haven't gotten around to doing that part yet. May also put the WTN numbers
>in there from GT: Far Trader.
>
>You'll need Acrobat reader or the plugin for your browser. Ya might want
>to turn off smoothing of text and images for best viewing.
>
>http://macconnect.com/~buzardb8/spinwardmarches.pdf
Doesn´t work anymore...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 12:12:44 EST
From: GaryBartz@aol.com
Subject: [OT] New Zealand's Defence Spending
In a message dated 3/8/00 6:28:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
<< It's not actually because of the cost (though it's true that they
are/were going to be expensive), but because the purchase makes little
sense. F16s are about as much use to New Zealand as tits on a Bull.
What we need are new A4 Skyhawks, but failing that FA18s would probably
be the best choice.
>>
I am an old DASC guy [Marine Corps strike aircraft and helo field controller
and sort of dispatcher], and so maybe I am confused by my old view of the air
world.
Why the heck do you guys want 16's? The air defense? Why not 15 strike eagles
for all round? About that same maintance reqirements [within 50%] for an all
round.
Hell, for that matter, what about some knock off export fighters and A-10s
for peacekeeping time on station missions and internal supression?
Do your pols just want the cool straight up airshow move?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 09:15:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: Question about Odd System Configurations
Trevor, Peter writes:
> > > 3) Horseshoe worlds: there's a sort of orbit (whose name I
> > > don't recall) which is co-orbital with another body, but
> > > tends to gradually bounce between the two trojan points.
> > > What sort of period does that have?
> >
> > Doesn't sound like this would be stable, at least not for long.
>
> I remember this one ... and now I can't find the b***** url for
> it! There is an asteroid in a bizarre orbit with Earth that
> makes little spirals as it moves back and forth between L4 and L5
> (the long way round). Apparently it is stable. I strongly
> suspect that 'horseshoe worlds' must also be of negligible mass
> (just as Trojan Point objects).
Yes, as I recall there's more than one such asteroid. There's also a couple
of moons of Saturn which trade orbits every so often due to a fairly similar
mechanism (basically, as they get closer together gravity throws the
trailing moon a bit further out into the system and pulls the leading moon
a bit inward; the trailing moon is now moving slower, the leading moon
is moving faster, and the leading moon pulls away and eventually comes
around behind the trailing moon, trading positions).
Pity about the trojan points.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 10:23:20 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Books, Games and the Web
Steve Daniels wrote:
>
>
> And with the advent and popular growth of the web, there is beginning
> to be a strong case for an 'open source' RPG. I've been sketching some
> ideas in this regard with some others. Few if any people are getting
> rich on RPG writing anyway. Why not keep it the hobby it is, and
> open the whole thing up. You preserve quality by making the best
> stuff "official". At the very most, you offer fancified, printable, or printed
> versions of official documents at a reasonable price (just to cover costs).
Been done. See:
http://www.fudgerpg.com/
>
>
> Ok, and you assert the copyright and trademark of course, but freely
> license all non-commercial uses to the world.
>
>
/RMS mode
Bah! There is But One Source, Open Source and it's license is the GNU
Public Licence ;-)
RMS mode/
Though I favor the PAL as well, the Perl Artistic License...
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 17:40:55 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty"
Subject: 76 Editions
The characters are appoached by a gentleman in an expensive suit. He offers
them Cr 1500 each plus expenses to market a new version of Traveller.
All is as presented, and the new version really exists.
Roll 1D to determine the outcome:
1. The title contains a colon*. The TML explodes into flames.
2. The system includes Half Dice. The TML explodes into flames.
3. The game is excellent. However, the TML explodes into flames over whether
it is as good as CT/MT/TNE/GT/T4.
4. Someone mentions Pirates (with or without near-c virus infected comfy
shoes) and the TML erupts into flames. The new version goes unnoticed amid
the roar of the conflagration.
5. All is as presented and the game is excellent. Everyone likes it.
However, the TML explodes into flames anyway.
6. Clif reappears. Subsequent events are up to the referee.
*Worlds in Darkness: Traveller
(Long Night sourcebook)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 11:36:02 -0600
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)
Subject: Re: 76 Editions
Hah! LMFAO!
- -----Original Message-----
From: MJ Dougherty
Subject: 76 Editions
>The characters are appoached by a gentleman in an expensive suit. He offers
>them Cr 1500 each plus expenses to market a new version of Traveller.
>
>All is as presented, and the new version really exists.
>Roll 1D to determine the outcome:
>
>1. The title contains a colon*. The TML explodes into flames.
>
>2. The system includes Half Dice. The TML explodes into flames.
>
>3. The game is excellent. However, the TML explodes into flames over
whether
>it is as good as CT/MT/TNE/GT/T4.
>
>4. Someone mentions Pirates (with or without near-c virus infected comfy
>shoes) and the TML erupts into flames. The new version goes unnoticed amid
>the roar of the conflagration.
>
>5. All is as presented and the game is excellent. Everyone likes it.
>However, the TML explodes into flames anyway.
>
>6. Clif reappears. Subsequent events are up to the referee.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 12:32:10 -0500
From: "Garcia, Abel"
Subject: RE: Why Traveller still survives...
- -----Original Message-----
From: Douglas E. Berry
>I stopped buying Battletech stuff after...
I still read the novels, simply because they are well written, and I like
the setting.
The best BT novel is the one written by *THE* Keith brothers.
Abel
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 18:35:48 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Imperial IDs and real world technology
I was at CeBit in Hannover. In one booth, a Swedish company (SatSafe)
presented a product which had a great ObTrav.
In essence, the thing is a combination of a mobile phone, a computer,
and a GPS system. Depending on the software installed, it can be used
for many things.
Examples include:
Connection to health-monitoring systems (blood pressure, heartbeat
sensor), making an automated call to a hospital whenever problems occur.
This could be a big help for patients with dangerous medical conditions,
like heart diseases.
Interconnection of systems, using a main station somewhere, is also
possible. This way, patients and their warders need not be in the same
place all the time. When something happens, the closest warder can be at
the scene quickly.
Possible automated position reporting when used as a normal phone.
Imagine what that would do for rescue teams etc. "Where are you now?"
"I'm lost in a forest." "We have your position on screen, please seek
shelter and we'll pick you up."
By hooking up to a map server, you could get directions from here to
there on the screen.
ObTrav: Currently, this system is about the size of a few years old
mobile phone. Assume that we are currently at TL8, and that the
electronics involved would have 1/25th of the current volume at TL12
(using FF&S2s figures for computer volume). This would mean that the
unit would be about the size of an ID card a few milimeters thick.
Assume that an ID card with this function embedded was carried by every
citizen on a planet. The current price at TL8 is about twice that of a
mobile phone, so this is not an impossibility. How would this change
society at large?
By using this as a normal ID card, you could ban all people not carrying
their units from many places. This would mean that carrying a unit would
be the norm, and that it would be possible to get the position of damn
near anyone at any time. Can you say "Law level increase?"
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 09:40:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: marches map in the works
For the truly insane:
Here's a text (preformatted html, really) map of every sector I could find.
Includes: antares, corridor, dagudash, daibei, darknebula, delphi, deneb,
diaspora, ealiyasi, empty quarter, fornast, glimmerdrift, gushemege,
hinterworlds, hlakhoi, iwahfuah, ley, lishun, magyar, spinward marches,
massilla, old expanses, reft, riftspan, solomani rim, spica, staihaia,
trojan reaches, verge, and vland sectors. If you're curious, the top left
corner is the spinward marches, which is sector -4X, -1Y.
http://www.geocities.com/ac_jackson/trav/empire.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 09:48:51 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
>
> My dear sir, you are the *only* person who claims
> that you are part of a
> conspiracy! We just consider you to be rude.
It's always a good sign when people have to make
tingds up to have an answer.
Exspecially when they call themselves "we"......
Thanks for amusing me...even if it's unintentional.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 12:51:45 -0500
From: "James Fleming"
Subject: Re: Warbots
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01BF89C6.39E67E00
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Chris Seamans writes:
>I'm not up to speed on the discussion so far, but there are different =
ways
>in which the warbots may be designed and used. For example, they could =
be
>for the most part disposable. Repair, maintenance, re-arming all become
>muted issues with disposable 'bots.
It could also defeat the purpose of putting the disposobots there in =
the first place. By using bots in that manner you're pretty much =
leaving weapons for any resourceful person or group to use when the =
robots break down. That, and it's probably gonna start hitting you in =
your pocket way before any resistance has been adequately dealt with. =20
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
- ---------------
Duke, if God almighty could turn himself into a man with all that power =
still inside him and some dude asked him to fight, who would win?
Hey! That wouldn't be a fair fight! The God-man would kill him, it'd =
be like fighting the bionic man...only worse!
- "The Sissy" by Jack Chick
- ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01BF89C6.39E67E00
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
Chris Seamans writes:
>I'm not up to speed on the discussion so far, =
but there=20
are different ways
>in which the warbots may be designed and used. =For=20example, they could be
>for the most part disposable. Repair, = maintenance,=20 re-arming all become
>muted issues with disposable ='bots.
It could also defeat the purpose =of putting=20the disposobots there in the first place. By using bots in that = manner=20 you're pretty much leaving weapons for any resourceful person or group = to use=20 when the robots break down. That, and it's probably gonna start = hitting=20 you in your pocket way before any resistance has been adequately dealt=20with.
----------------------------------------------------------------=- ------------------------
Duke,=20if God almighty could turn himself into a man with all that power still = inside=20 him and some dude asked him to fight, who would win?
Hey! That =wouldn't=20be a fair fight! The God-man would kill him, it'd be like fighting =the=20bionic man...only=20worse!
&nb= sp; =20- - "The Sissy" by Jack Chick
- ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01BF89C6.39E67E00--
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 09:49:35
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: 76 Editions
At 05:40 PM 3/9/2000 -0000, you wrote:
>The characters are appoached by a gentleman in an expensive suit. He offers
>them Cr 1500 each plus expenses to market a new version of Traveller.
I am so happy I finished my Coke before this message...
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 18:56:17 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Re: marches map in the works
Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Here's a text (preformatted html, really) map of every sector I could
> find.
You, my friend, are a very sick and twisted person. For that we are
thankful.
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 13:15:12 -0500
From: scott brandsgaard
Subject: Re: marches map in the works
At 20.31 +0100 03.05.00, Volker Greimann wrote:
>
>>http://macconnect.com/~buzardb8/spinwardmarches.pdf
>
>Doesn´t work anymore...
Try out the longhand version:
http://members.macconnect.com/users/b/buzardb8/spinwardmarches.pdf
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 13:15:23 -0500
From: scott brandsgaard
Subject: Re: marches map in the works
At 08.33 -0700 03.09.00, Erwin Fritz wrote:
>Awesome! This would be a very useful tool for me.
>
>May I make a request, though? Could the background be changed to white?
>That way I don't spend $$$$ on toner trying to print it all.
Ya know, I orginally started with a white background, but then
switched to black to give it a more deep-space-like feel and I never
really intended to print it. However, white would allow for some
writing of notes etc on a printed version of the map.
It's just a rough for now. When I get back to working on it I'll try
to keep a version with a white background available. The yellow type
for amber zones will disappear though. A possible fix for that would
be to put a black box behind that type. As it is now the color
differences are little harder to notice than I'd like.
=================================================================
"The Universe is, at any time, what you say it is." -James Burke
Scott Brandsgaard mailto:buzardb8@macconnect.com
Space Trader http://macconnect.com/~buzardb8/spacetrader.html
FUDGE TV http://macconnect.com/~buzardb8/fudgetv.html
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2035
***********************************
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Traveller-digest Thursday, March 9 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2036
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: What if (was Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2031 sorry)
Re: marches map in the works
Re: 76 Editions
Re: Tell us what you like about Traveller ( was: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
Re: What if (was Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2031 sorry)
Re: One More Time: What do you want in T5?
An interesting stat or Man, we getting old!
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Please read responsibly
Re: Chargen (long)
Re: Failure company=failed game?
Re: One Traveller=One Formula...do something about it
RE: One More Time: What do you want in T5?
Not trav-related but...
TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Traveller Went Down (in proper caps)
Re: Books, Games and the Web
Hebden Bridge - *the* UK Traveller Meet?
Re: One More Time: What do you want in T5?
Re: TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
[OT] Attn - Penguin Boy
Re: [OT] Attn - Penguin Boy
Re: Using no ground troops (/warbots)
Re: [OT] New Zealand's Defence Spending
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 13:33:12 -0500
From: "DaveShayne"
Subject: Re: What if (was Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2031 sorry)
>Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 00:38:01 -0500
>From: Steve Daniels
>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2025
>
>DaveShayne wrote:
>
>> The other thought I had on this question is regarding the X-Boat network.
>> Since jump is instantaneous the only diference between a Jump 1 ship and
>> a jump 6 ship is the jump six ship requires 5 more tons for the drive. Ie
a
>> jump 1 ship with 60% fuel can perform 6 instantaneous jumps to arrive at
the
>> same place as the jump 6 vessel.
>
>Well, there is still the need to manuever to next jump point (which could
>take a week or more), and possibly time to recharge the jump drive,
>depending upon how it works.
>
>bloo
A jump point is anywhere outside of the 100 diameter limit. Which is where
you exit from jump. So the delay is how long to refuel and recharge the
jump.
If you carry fuel for more than 1 jump the time required is the time to
recharge
the jump engine. This takes 2 twenty minute High guard turns with a PP rated
at
the same rating as the jump. 1 turn if the PP is rated at twice the jump.
To sumarise the delay is 20 minutes per jump. Or six parsecs in 2
hours.(assume J1,PP2,60%fuel) If no extra fuel is carried you do need to
travel to a refueling station (either Starport, ocean, or gas giant.) and
back out to 100 diameters.
But I wouldn't expect most comercial ships will allocate more than 20 or 30%
to
jump fuel. (and ships designed to ply the mains will make do with the normal
10%.) Only where comercial trafic is sparce or jump 1 mains don't exist will
a goevrnment resort to purpose built courier ships. Elsewhere messages just
travel
with the next ship out. (which may have to leave imediately in the case of
high priority transmissions.)
YMMV. etc.
David Shayne
+++++++++++++++++++++
Veni, Vidi, Vacca.
I came, I saw, I had a cow
- Bart Caeser
+++++++++++++++++++++
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 11:35:29 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz
Subject: Re: marches map in the works
scott brandsgaard wrote:
>
> Ya know, I orginally started with a white background, but then
> switched to black to give it a more deep-space-like feel and I never
> really intended to print it. However, white would allow for some
> writing of notes etc on a printed version of the map.
>
> It's just a rough for now. When I get back to working on it I'll try
> to keep a version with a white background available. The yellow type
> for amber zones will disappear though. A possible fix for that would
> be to put a black box behind that type. As it is now the color
> differences are little harder to notice than I'd like.
Or you could change the yellow to a more light orange.
- --
Erwin Fritz
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 12:06:20 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: 76 Editions
MJ Dougherty wrote:
>
> The characters are appoached by a gentleman in an expensive suit. He offers
> them Cr 1500 each plus expenses to market a new version of Traveller.
>
> All is as presented, and the new version really exists.
> Roll 1D to determine the outcome:
>
> 1. The title contains a colon*. The TML explodes into flames.
OhMyGod! You Killed Keyboard! Youuu Bastard!
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 12:58:02 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch
Subject: Re: Tell us what you like about Traveller ( was: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
In <008d01bf8993$a5da2cc0$47b408cf@chrissea>, on 03/09/00
at 01:49 AM, "Chris Seamans" said:
>> 2. I like that it *doesn't* try to be cutting edge. The basic
>> things that make Traveller..Traveller, are accessible to most anyone
>> with any sort of grounding in science fiction. Yes, it is "old
>> fashion" science fiction, but that means it is built on well
>> understood ideas and the players can concentrate on roleplaying
>> not trying to gronk life beyond the Vingian Singularity.
>The quaint technology of the Traveller universe may make it easy to
>concentrate on roleplaying, although I'm not sure I agree entirely.
>However, the sheer complexity and depth of the official Traveller
>universe both tend to erase that advantage. In every Traveller game I've
>ever run I've had to give out prodigious handouts to bring people up to
>speed on the official Traveller universe.
Like I have to worry about that!
I wouldn't even worry about it *if* I was playing in the OTU. I'd make
sure they knew about the local area they were starting in and let them
learn about the rest of the TU as they travelled.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch"
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 14:12:45 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: Re: What if (was Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2031 sorry)
DaveShayne wrote:
>A jump point is anywhere outside of the 100 diameter limit. Which is where
>you exit from jump. So the delay is how long to refuel and recharge the
>jump.
> If you carry fuel for more than 1 jump the time required is the time to
>recharge the jump engine. This takes 2 twenty minute High guard turns
>with a PP rated at the same rating as the jump. 1 turn if the PP is rated at
>twice the jump.
Yes and no.
While in an emergency it is possible to jump within twenty minutes of
jump exit, no one really wants to do that. A more usual procedure is
to spend about 16 hours doing maintenance checks on the drives before
you dump that big tank of hydrogen fuel through them again...making a
habit out of hot-jumping will eventually end you up sitting in an empty
parsec with a burned-out jump drive.
Still, 16 hours is a lot shorter than a week. And pony-express style
boats can jump out within minutes of the incoming boat's arrival, allowing
an extensive enough X-Boat system to provide trans-Imperium
communications that take hours instead of months.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 13:03:50 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch
Subject: Re: One More Time: What do you want in T5?
In <00c901bf8998$0598d680$47b408cf@chrissea>, on 03/09/00
at 02:20 AM, "Chris Seamans" said:
Chris and I don't always agree, but on this I can't find any jot that
doesn't express my feelings on what should be in T5.
>> Well, since the issue comes up each year, here's the
>> latest poll.
>>
>> What do you want in T5?
>Alright, I'll bite.
>> I. General
>I would love to see clean, professional, competitive presentation of game
>books with artwork which is consistent from book to book. A unified look
>would be nice. I'd also like to see well organized products worked over
>by competent proofreaders and editors.
Proofread at all would be a nice change. ;-J
>> II: Characters
>A more modular version of the advanced chargen from CT. Ideally, the
>character creation system would support random chargen as well as a sort
>of sequential point based system, or a mix from term to term. Such a
>beast *is* possible. I cobbled such a system together for T4, and with
>some tweaking it could have been even better.
Absolutely! And I'd love to see a copy of your cobbled system.
>> III: Combat
>I think that fast paced and deadly combat is a must. Ideally, the combat
>system should have a coherent, basic framework to which varying degrees
>of complexity can be added if desired.
Three cheers!
>> IV: Vehicles & Starships
>A simple High Guard style creation system which would be backed up by a
>supplement similar to TNE's Fire, Fusion and Steel. Various non-canon
>technologies should be presented as well so people can easily customize
>their own Traveller universes.
Huzzah!
>> V: Worlds
>I'd love to see a return to the "old skool" of early Traveller materials
>which mainly consist of guidelines for creating personalized setting. I'm
>a huge fan of main rulebooks with as little background material as
>possible.
Hear! Hear!
>> VI: Adventures
>I usually don't buy or run prepackaged adventures. The rulebook should
>contain a short introductory adventure or two (if each one is really
>short) and maybe a page or two of adventure ideas and tips for the GM.
>There should be maybe five pages of this stuff, 10 pages max. I can't
>stand all that extra baggage in a rule book.
I buy prepackaged adventures, but I don't run them. Instead I use them as
idea sources. What I really like is a detailed writeup of a system (or
subsector) followed by several adventure nuggets and ideas.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch"
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 19:36:16 GMT
From: "Boris Cibic"
Subject: An interesting stat or Man, we getting old!
To someone who did mind having younger gamers...well here are the stats so
far:
The recent WotC survey left an interesting gap in their age demographics.
So, please answer the following question
below.
"a: I'm over 35 years old " has 8% of the vote
"b: I'm 25-35 years old " has 54% of the vote
"c: I'm 19-24 years old " has 29% of the vote
"d: I'm 16-18 years old " has 6% of the vote
"e: I'm 12-15 years old " has 1% of the vote
"f: I'm under 12 years old " has 0% of the vote
Judging by the TML's fondness for CT...that is probably correct. Anyhow,
vote at www.rpg.net
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 15:05:53 -0500
From: Steve Daniels
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Matt Bond wrote:
> > >Amen. What other game has ever had the balls to kill you in chargen?
> >
> > None, other than Traveller.
> >
>
> How about Wraith: The Oblivion, or Vampire: the Masquerade...
Well, you're allowed to play dead in those games, so they don't
count. Traveller chargen death is a permanent and unplayable
death. Throw the paper away. Roll no more dice. Announce
no further actions. All you have are the memories.
"I swear! His stats were CCCCCC to start with and merchant
chargen took him to FFFCCC. I was going for one more term
to increase the chances of gettnig a Free Trader when he rolled
snake eyes on the Survival roll. Oh, the humaniti!"
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 15:14:02 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: Please read responsibly
Ladies and Gentlebeings,
In the past couple of days, I've counted four keyboard kills and at least
two virtual kills. This headlong disregard for the keyboards that live and work with us every day is simply disheartening.
Remember:
1) Drink
2) Swallow
3) Open next TML message
The keyboard you save could be your own!!
Walt Smith
(3 kills this month alone, here and on my PBeM...)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 15:26:41 -0500
From: Steve Daniels
Subject: Re: Chargen (long)
Rob Eaglestone wrote:
> Steve has begun to work T4.1 into the advanced chargen
> system. I think most of us agree that this kind of
> detail is to be much desired in Traveller.
>
> I do have a couple of suggestions, though.
>
> 1. Keep the military rank names as they are.
Well, I think they're less than perfect and would welcome
other insights. Maybe my goal of uniform standards of
Imperial rank titles is an unreachable one.
> 2. Where two careers differ by less than some delta,
> re-merge them rather than forcing them to be
> different by arbitrary rules [with so many career
> branches this might happen].
Do you mean Technician and Scholar? I'll admit that
I don't like the way I've done Technician much.
What if civilian careers have access to additional
hobby/life pursuit-type skill tables, to reflect the idea
they have more free time than military personnel (that
is an assumption that may not hold up, I freely admit).
Example, a Technician, with its feeble skill table
selection, would be able to select X skills/term as
a hobby/pursuit. A Naval officer, with his rich skill
table offerings would only be able to select X-1 skills/term
from a hobby (because his time is not his own).
Then, as I think MM has suggested, things like Psionics
aren't a career (though I'm keeping my super secret
covert Psionicists agents). This would lead to things like
a Psionic Detective (in a Psi-tolerant world or era), the
Fencing Technician, the Sharpshooting Professor, the
Marine Historian, the Singing Merchant, etc.
> 3. Steve, how does your High Guard chargen work differently
> from MT's system? A summary paragraph at the front
> briefly explaining what you had to change would help me
> understand it better.
Probably not significantly. I wrote that before I had _any_
MT material. I wanted to start from scratch with an approach
that could be applied to all careers. Thats how I finally
got to 4 skill table categories [Career Life, Location (Planetary or
Interstellar), Danger (Routine or Hazardous), and Career Branch].
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 01:40:56 -0500
From: "Chauncey Smith"
Subject: Re: Failure company=failed game?
- -----Original Message-----
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: Failure company=failed game?
>
>Convention exposure? Sure, but only a small part of the gaming populace
goes
>to conventions.
>
>Any more ideas?
>
>GC
One example from the pass before Steve Jackson games stopped going to
Origins. They said they made over half there yearly profits from origins and
gen con.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 01:54:45 -0500
From: "Chauncey Smith"
Subject: Re: One Traveller=One Formula...do something about it
My personal answer to this question below is to give a framework and
structure to it.
yes you can use your imagination but some times you go to the well and it's
dry so roll some dice and you still can play Saturday morning.
or wow I need a new world on a fly give me those dice.
and the player discover the world as the gm does
- -----Original Message-----
From: Rupert Boleyn
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: One Traveller=One Formula...do something about it
On 8 Mar 00, at 19:12, Steven Hudson wrote:
But everyone knows that when there's a formula for something you must
follow it, even when the game says that you're allowed to ignore
results you don't like. Why would CT have included a system using
random dice for UWP generation if you were to be allowed to use your
imagination instead?
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 15:27:55 -0500
From: "Garcia, Abel"
Subject: RE: One More Time: What do you want in T5?
- -----Original Message-----
From: Phil Kitching
> "Chris Seamans" wrote:
> From: Rob Eaglestone
> IV: Vehicles & Starships
> A simple High Guard style creation system which would be backed up by a
> supplement similar to TNE's Fire, Fusion and Steel.
leave the design system to FF&S3,FF&S3 should be three layered:
description layer - the notes in FF&S on why things work are great.
component layer - pregenerated components for High Guard style
design.
(FF&S only had a single laser turret as a worked
design,
hardly generous)
detail layer - FF&S3 in all its equations, for building your own
modules.
Phil,
Perhaps your "Component Layer" FF&S3 book is Volume 1 and your "Description
Layer" & "Detail Layer" is Volume 2. But don't forget Volume 3 in you FF&S3
trilogy: STRIKER3! What made FF&S0 great was Frank Chadwick's original
Role-playing miniatures game -STRIKER1; the same goes with FF&S1 and
STRIKER2. Now that his "COMMAND DECISION" miniature rules system has gone
through as many updates as Traveller has -T5 cannot forget its Warmongering
Gearhead party! I'm sure a thoroughly playtested STRIKER3 could be made
available.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 13:33:01 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Not trav-related but...
Some of the Great Old Ones are featured in todays After Y2K
(by Nitrozac, who is THE hottest TTB in GoGo boots ever!)
http://www.geekculture.com/geekycomics/Aftery2k/aftery2kmain.html
:-)
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 12:33:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Troy Bradley
Subject: TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Hey guys, I have loved Traveller for years and it
products were many and awesome, BUT it was too
unweildy. A game called Starfire faced the same
problem, and one of the players bought the system and
streamlined it! It now is one of th best space games
anywhere. It would Traveller good if somwone would do
the same for this classic. Troy
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 15:37:03 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: Traveller Went Down (in proper caps)
Troy Bradley wrote:
>Hey guys, I have loved Traveller for years and it
>products were many and awesome, BUT it was too
>unweildy. A game called Starfire faced the same
>problem, and one of the players bought the system and
>streamlined it! It now is one of th best space games
>anywhere. It would Traveller good if somwone would do
>the same for this classic. Troy
Trav Lite?
What unweildy parts do you think would be best streamlined out?
I see Traveller as a pretty minimalist system myself. Not necessarily
perfect, but I'd never thought of it as unweildy.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 15:47:31 -0500
From: Steve Daniels
Subject: Re: Books, Games and the Web
Bruce Johnson wrote:
> Been done. See:
>
> http://www.fudgerpg.com/
>
At first glance it seems waaaayyy to abstract for my tastes.
And if you make anything abstract enough, it covers everything.
But I'm taking a look at it. Thanks for the link.
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 17:34:12 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Hebden Bridge - *the* UK Traveller Meet?
Hi all,
So who is going to the UK Traveller Meet at Hebden Bridge this weekend?
I know of the following:
Me
Andy Lilly
Derrick Jones
Nick Walker? (I assume)
Who else?
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 17:58:26 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: One More Time: What do you want in T5?
At 4:53 -0500 9/3/00, john hamilton wrote:
>It would be ..........nice if the basic rules for once
>could contain rules how to play the mayor races( T4
>was expecially ß&%ß%&ß&ß& in this category).
T4's Alien Book 1 (Aslan, Vargr and Graytch) - was written by CORE
and submitted to IG when MM pulled the licence.
This and other works that were killed were never paid for, ISTR.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 15:10:48 -0600
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
If you're on crack
- -----Original Message-----
From: Troy Bradley
>A game called Starfire faced the same
>problem, and one of the players bought the system and
>streamlined it! It now is one of th best space games
>anywhere.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 16:04:39 -0500
From: Glenn Myers
Subject: [OT] Attn - Penguin Boy
Doug, and others who may be of the penguin persuasion-
I came across this link and thought of the TML at once.
http://www.newwave.org/penguin/index.html
They are selling Penguin Mints. Caffein and Peppermint in a tastfully done
tin.
I'm looking for an excuse to buy some.
Penguins have infiltrated my life recently. My 8 year old son has been
studying penguins in school. Whatever they have to learn, they learn it with
penguins. Read about penguins, add penguins, subtract penguins. I am
constantly being informed about the penguin breed of the week (Fairy
penguins this week). Or how the males hatch the eggs carrying them on top of
their feet so the ice doesn't freeze them.
Nothing on penguin aerodynamics, yet.
Just though I'd share an interesting link,
Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 13:35:24 -0800
From: "Dave Strebe"
Subject: Re: [OT] Attn - Penguin Boy
Kewl, easy on the keyboard also, no more coffee ,
just have to look out for ricochets (sp?)
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Glenn Myers
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2000 1:04 PM
Subject: [OT] Attn - Penguin Boy
> Doug, and others who may be of the penguin persuasion-
>
> I came across this link and thought of the TML at once.
> http://www.newwave.org/penguin/index.html
>
> They are selling Penguin Mints. Caffein and Peppermint in a tastfully done
> tin.
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 10:42:14 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Using no ground troops (/warbots)
On 9 Mar 00, at 4:54, Steven Hudson wrote:
> For Aslan, K'kree, many Vargr, and possibly lots of human societies, the
> idea of replacing traditional soldiers with additional hardware - however
> reliable - may not be at all keenly accepted.
>
> And the Hivers _claim_ to be cowards...
With Ithklur as neighbours I'd be tempted to admit to cowardice, too.
That way they maight go and play someplce else.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 10:42:14 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: [OT] New Zealand's Defence Spending
On 9 Mar 00, at 12:12, GaryBartz@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 3/8/00 6:28:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
>
> << It's not actually because of the cost (though it's true that they
> are/were going to be expensive), but because the purchase makes little
> sense. F16s are about as much use to New Zealand as tits on a Bull. What
> we need are new A4 Skyhawks, but failing that FA18s would probably be the
> best choice.
> >>
>
> I am an old DASC guy [Marine Corps strike aircraft and helo field
> controller and sort of dispatcher], and so maybe I am confused by my old
> view of the air world. Why the heck do you guys want 16's? The air
> defense? Why not 15 strike eagles for all round? About that same maintance
> reqirements [within 50%] for an all round. Hell, for that matter, what
> about some knock off export fighters and A-10s for peacekeeping time on
> station missions and internal supression? Do your pols just want the cool
> straight up airshow move?
We don't. The old government thought that they were a good deal (ie
they were dazzeled by US salesmen). What we need are new A4 Skyhawks
(or at least low flight-hour airframes and engines), or a more modern
equivilent - something that doesn't exist. Probably the closest thing
would be the FA-18, and they're much bigger and more expensive to buy
and run.
As for the airshow move - I've seen Mirage III's do that, though I
suspect they probably had near empty tanks, and the old MiG19's had a
thrust/weight ratio of better than 1, so we don't even need the F16's
for that.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2036
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Traveller-digest Thursday, March 9 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2037
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space
Re Jump-gates
Re Return of Cliff?
Re: Books, Games and the Web
Re: Chargen (long)
The Yanks are Coming (was re: Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space)
Re: Hebden Bridge - *the* UK Traveller Meet?
Re Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space
Re: Chargen (long)
Re: The Yanks are Coming (was re: Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space)
Re: The Yanks are Coming (was re: Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space)
Re: Books, Games and the Web
Re: Chargen (long)
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2020
Re: Hebden Bridge - *the* UK Traveller Meet?
Re: Chargen (long)
Re: Hebden Bridge - *the* UK Traveller Meet?
Re: Failure company=failed game?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 12:49:12 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space
>> Now, Barrayar (Bujold's) government is clearly Imperial Russia done by
>> Poles (and Greeks).... As for those Jackson's Wholers, I dare say they're
>> no worse than Barrayar's ImpSec.
>
>ImpSec doesn't breed clones for rich clients to have their brain put
>into as a form of life extension. Bear in mind that for the clone to be
>healthy it has to raised as a normal child, so it has a personality,
>etc, etc.
Now, I'd say that releasing Miles and Ivan upon the unsuspecting universe
is equally as cruel. ;) And, for that matter, only one of the barons does
the work, and he does it for anyone who can pay. It was two... but miles,
you know...
>And Bujold does have Yanks in Space - they're called Betans :)
>
They're Yanks? I'd say more californians... ;)
Actually, they are more anarcho-capitalists with a strongly socialized
system of supports and a service based local economy, from what little we
actually know about Beta. The US is definitely NOT anarcho-capitalist...
To me, Beta seems about like Afgani trade ethics combined with califonian
morality, and US Mil-Ind-Complex... with a touch of brittish "right and
proper" attitude thrown in. YMMV. It's equally as alien to my US senses as
Barrayar.
(Yanks, to most US types, tends to refer to the north-eastern seaboard
states and their peoples. )
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 12:50:58 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Jump-gates
>I'm not aware of anything on Traveller Canon that says that "Wormholes", or
>"Stargates/Jumpgates" can't exist. However, introducing them into an
>existing campaign could be very tricky. A situation such as I describe
>IMTU is one solution if using gates. If using "Wormholes" the best way of
>introducing them is likely to be as a newly discovered phenominon. Hmm,
>this could actually make for a great game with the characters being the
>crew of a ship searching for and maping Wormholes.
CT canon actually says they do exist. At least in as much as they connect
to Yaskodray's pocket universe. See A12:Secret of the Anchients.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 13:03:45 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Return of Cliff?
>>The characters are appoached by a gentleman in an expensive suit. He offers
>>them Cr 1500 each plus expenses to market a new version of Traveller.
>>
>>All is as presented, and the new version really exists.
>>Roll 1D to determine the outcome:
>>
[snip]
>>6. Clif reappears. Subsequent events are up to the referee.
Hmmm. I saw this then the following:
>From: john hamilton
>Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
>
>>
>> My dear sir, you are the *only* person who claims
>> that you are part of a
>> conspiracy! We just consider you to be rude.
>
>It's always a good sign when people have to make
>tingds up to have an answer.
>Exspecially when they call themselves "we"......
>Thanks for amusing me...even if it's unintentional.
>
Don't you just hate it when Cliff get's reincarnated?
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 16:05:19 -0600
From: Joseph Dietrich
Subject: Re: Books, Games and the Web
>> Been done. See:
>>
>> http://www.fudgerpg.com/
>>
>
> At first glance it seems waaaayyy to abstract for my tastes.
> And if you make anything abstract enough, it covers everything.
> But I'm taking a look at it. Thanks for the link.
>
> bloo
Oh, uninitiated one, you should take a peek at the recurring discussions on
the FUDGE mailing list. It can have as much detail as you want to put into
it. ;-)
Ciao,
Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net
A Follower of FUDGE (FoF) for 3 years now.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 15:11:45 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch
Subject: Re: Chargen (long)
In <38C80901.932E04BB@portcaddo.com>, on 03/09/00
at 03:26 PM, Steve Daniels said:
Steve,
Seeing as Marc has said that he is planning on there being about 5 skills
levels per 4 year term, I've been considering doing the following with the
skills:
1. Use 4 year terms where the character gets 5 skills
2. Random Term Assignments
3. Have 4 Random Tables Categories for each career (something like)
a. Service Life Table
b. Assignment Skill Tables (varies by Term Assignment)
c. Rank Skill Tables
d. Branch Skill Tables
4. Free choice of "Life pursuit" skill
Example:
Navy
Navy Life Table
1 Brawling
2 Str +1
3 Carousing
4 Gambling
5 End +1
6 Dex +1
7 End +1
8 Edu +1
9 Carousing
10 Vacc Suit
DM: +4 if O1+
Navy Assignment Skill Tables
Shipboard Shore Duty
1 Gambling 1 Carousing
2 Dex +1 2 Vehicle
3 Blade Cbt 3 Fwd Obs
4 Mechanical 4 Vacc Suit
5 Ship's Boat 5 Liasion
6 Vacc Suit 6 Vehicle
7 Z-G Cbt 7 Fwd Obs
8 Commo 8 Survival
9 Admin 9 Vacc Suit
10 JOAT 10 Battle Dress
DM: +4 if O1+ DM: +4 if O1+
Navy Rank Skill Tables
Enlisted Cmd Officer Staff Officer
1 Vacc Suit 1 Vehicle 1 Computer
2 Blade Cbt 2 End +1 2 Sensors
3 Gun Cbt 3 Gun Cbt 3 Gun Cbt
4 Mechanical 4 Ship's Boat 4 Admin
5 First Aid 5 Pilot 5 Bribery
6 Leader 6 Ship Tactics 6 Ship Tactics
7 Z-G Cbt 7 Leader 7 Fleet Tactics
8 Edu +1 8 Soc +1 8 Int +1
9 Instruction 9 Leader 9 Ship Tactics
10 Admin 10 Ship Tactics 10 Fleet Tactics
DM: +2 if E5+ DM: +2 if O4+ DM: +2 if O4+
+4 if E7+ +4 if O7+ +4 if O4+
Navy Branch Skills Tables
Line/Crew Bridge Gunnery
1 Mechanical 1 Vacc Suit 1 Fwd Obs
2 Electronics 2 Sensors 2 Gun Cbt
3 Gun Cbt 3 Gun Cbt 3 Sensors
4 Steward 4 Commo 4 Computer
5 Computer 5 Sensors 5 Gunnery
6 Liaison 6 Astrogation 6 Gunnery
7 Steward 7 Pilot 7 Fwd Obs
8 Z-G Cbt 8 Pilot 8 Gunnery
9 Admin 9 Astrogation 9 Gunnery
10 Law 10 Pilot 10 Computer
Engineering Medical Technical
1 Mechanical 1 Admin 1 Mechanical
2 Electronics 2 JOAT 2 Mechanical
3 Engineering 3 Steward 3 Electronics
4 Gravitics 4 Electronic 4 Gravitics
5 Vacc Suit 5 Medical 5 Mechanical
6 Engineering 6 Computer 6 Computer
7 Engineering 7 Medical 7 Gravitics
8 Admin 8 Medical 8 Computer
9 Engineering 9 Admin 9 Admin
10 Admin 10 Admin 10 Engineering
DM: +2 if E5+ or O1+
+4 if E7+ or O4+
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch"
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 17:16:07 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: The Yanks are Coming (was re: Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space)
William F. Hostman wrote:
>(Yanks, to most US types, tends to refer to the north-eastern seaboard
>states and their peoples. )
How did that go...
To a non-US resident, a "Yankee" is anyone from the USA.
To a US resident, a Yankee is someone from the Northeast.
To a resident of the US Northeast, a Yankee is someone from
New England (Massachusetts, Delaware, Vermont,
Rhode Island, Maine).
To a resident of New England, a Yankee is someone from Maine.
To a resident of Maine, a Yankee is someone from the rural areas
of Northwestern Maine, seen as rough, uncultured types
who still lack indoor plumbing.
"Yank" comes from "Yankee" of course, though I haven't heard anyone
use it who came from inside the USofA.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 22:16:56 +0000
From: Paul Campbell
Subject: Re: Hebden Bridge - *the* UK Traveller Meet?
On Thu, 09 Mar 2000, SD Mooney wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> So who is going to the UK Traveller Meet at Hebden Bridge this weekend?
>
> I know of the following:
>
> Me
> Andy Lilly
> Derrick Jones
> Nick Walker? (I assume)
>
> Who else?
>
> Dom
Where is Hebden Bridge? If it's not to far (200miles) from me I might come.
- --
Paul Campbell
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 11:28:54 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space
On 9 Mar 00, at 12:49, William F. Hostman wrote:
> >And Bujold does have Yanks in Space - they're called Betans :)
> >
> They're Yanks? I'd say more californians... ;)
>
> Actually, they are more anarcho-capitalists with a strongly socialized
> system of supports and a service based local economy, from what little we
> actually know about Beta. The US is definitely NOT anarcho-capitalist...
>
> To me, Beta seems about like Afgani trade ethics combined with califonian
> morality, and US Mil-Ind-Complex... with a touch of brittish "right and
> proper" attitude thrown in. YMMV. It's equally as alien to my US senses as
> Barrayar.
>
> (Yanks, to most US types, tends to refer to the north-eastern seaboard
> states and their peoples. )
All the above is why the simley. I'm aware that to you prople in the US
"Yank" usually means someone from the north-east, but outside the US it
usually means someone from the US. This is especially true when
irritating Texans (for example) are found to dislike being called a
"Yank".
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 17:38:52 -0500
From: Steve Daniels
Subject: Re: Chargen (long)
Eris Reddoch wrote:
> In <38C80901.932E04BB@portcaddo.com>, on 03/09/00
> at 03:26 PM, Steve Daniels said:
>
> Steve,
>
> Seeing as Marc has said that he is planning on there being about 5 skills
> levels per 4 year term,
Yes. He has said that T4 assumes 1.25 skills per year. CT always
had a skill imbalance (Army careers disproportionately gave more
skills than other careers)., Book 4 and 5 started expanding the ability
to get more skills, causing additional imbalance (IMO). I haven't
analyzed MT carefully, yet.
> I've been considering doing the following with the
> skills:
>
> 1. Use 4 year terms where the character gets 5 skills
> 2. Random Term Assignments
> 3. Have 4 Random Tables Categories for each career (something like)
> a. Service Life Table
> b. Assignment Skill Tables (varies by Term Assignment)
> c. Rank Skill Tables
> d. Branch Skill Tables
> 4. Free choice of "Life pursuit" skill
[snip]
I'm taking a look at this (I'm distracted today - Carlos sprung a trap
on our PBEM group - the bastiche!). I will say I generally don't like
the skill tables with more than 6 options (for no good reason), and
especially where one skill can be 4 of the 10 options. I much prefer
additional tables with a requirement, like the Advanced Education
skill tables. But that may just be me. Still trying to get that Apprentice
Heretic hat broken in.
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 16:25:50 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch
Subject: Re: The Yanks are Coming (was re: Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space)
In <01BF89EB.29332200@smithwn1.hartwick.edu>, on 03/09/00
at 05:16 PM, Walter Smith said:
>To a non-US resident, a "Yankee" is anyone from the USA.
>To a US resident, a Yankee is someone from the Northeast.
>To a resident of the US Northeast, a Yankee is someone from
> New England (Massachusetts, Delaware, Vermont,
> Rhode Island, Maine).
>To a resident of New England, a Yankee is someone from Maine. To a
>resident of Maine, a Yankee is someone from the rural areas
> of Northwestern Maine, seen as rough, uncultured types
> who still lack indoor plumbing.
And this is separate from how un-reconstructed Southerners like me see
'em:
"DAMN Yankee!" is any American from outside the South.
"Carpetbagger" is a "Damn Yankee!" living in the South.
"Furriner" is anybody that "ain't from round here."
Maybe we should start, "You may be a Yankee if...." jokes.
Plenty of Ob Travellers there if you read between the lines.
Eris.
American by birth
Southern by the grace of God!
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch"
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 17:42:29 -0500
From: Steve Daniels
Subject: Re: The Yanks are Coming (was re: Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space)
Walter Smith wrote:
> To a resident of New England, a Yankee is someone from Maine.
Well, as a transplanted Bostonian, ex Texan, "Yankee" hear means
that evil baseball team from New Yahk. People from Maine are
"Hicks", which goes against my Texan understanding of a "Hick"
being anyone from the rural areas, or outside of real cities.
> To a resident of Maine, a Yankee is someone from the rural areas
> of Northwestern Maine, seen as rough, uncultured types
> who still lack indoor plumbing.
>
> "Yank" comes from "Yankee" of course, though I haven't heard anyone
> use it who came from inside the USofA.
Except when its a verb. ;-)
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 17:53:37 -0500
From: Steve Daniels
Subject: Re: Books, Games and the Web
Joseph Dietrich wrote:
> Oh, uninitiated one, you should take a peek at the recurring discussions on
> the FUDGE mailing list. It can have as much detail as you want to put into
> it. ;-)
That is sort of what I mean. A system so abstract that it can accept
any level of detail you want to put into. "You want 72+ stats. Fudge
will do it. You want 1 stats. Fudge will do that to." To which my
knee-jerk response is, then what is the flipping point? I could create
my own RPG system and it could be wedged into Fudge. So, it
seems to me that the D in Fudge, for Do-it-yourself, is the main
thing. Its just a faster way to create your own RPG.
I don't want to indict the Fudge system too much, as I've just finished
downloading it and haven't had a chance to read it fully. I'm sure its
not bad. It just doesn't seem to be what I want.
What I am thinking of is a defined RPG system, not a system
to make your own RPG, that is background free. Maybe,
just maybe, it has a "lite" version.
One of the principles I would want this system to incorporate
is the value that character generation is its own reward. I know
I'm not alone, though I may be in a minority, but I often enjoy
just creating characters (preferably with dice, but point systems
have their merits too).
But I'm reading the Fudge stuff.
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 16:38:47 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch
Subject: Re: Chargen (long)
In <38C827FB.4237CBB2@portcaddo.com>, on 03/09/00
at 05:38 PM, Steve Daniels said: >> I've
been considering doing the following with the
>> skills:
>>
>> 1. Use 4 year terms where the character gets 5 skills
>> 2. Random Term Assignments
>> 3. Have 4 Random Tables Categories for each career (something like)
>> a. Service Life Table
>> b. Assignment Skill Tables (varies by Term Assignment)
>> c. Rank Skill Tables
>> d. Branch Skill Tables
>> 4. Free choice of "Life pursuit" skill
>[snip]
>I'm taking a look at this (I'm distracted today - Carlos sprung a trap on
>our PBEM group - the bastiche!).
Hee! Hee! I haven't looked at his messages to my half of the BTE group
yet, but it can't be any worse than some of the ambushes he's thrown at
us.
>I will say I generally don't like the skill tables with more
>than 6 options (for no good reason), and especially where
>one skill can be 4 of the 10 options.
Well, it was just an example, drawing heavily from HG. Personally, I
agree about tables with more than 6 entries. I'd rather have several
separate tables for ranks, but this way does save space. As for having
a skill appear multiple times, I disagree with you if you don't like that.
Yes, I want the character to have a broader range of skills than basic CG
in CT, but I also don't think having a character with 30 skills, all at
level 1 is good either.
>I much prefer additional tables with a requirement, like the
>Advanced Education skill tables. But that may just be me.
See above, it's not just you.
BTW, I didn't have my notes here and I can't spend too much of work time
on this ;), but I have tables for more than just two Assignments, and some
of the skills are different. Medical Officers, for example, are a
separate table from Command/Staff Officers. Oh, and First Aid is different
from Medical...First Aid is what non-doctors learn and doctors learn
Medical (for diagnosis, surgery , and trauma care) and Medical defaults to
First Aid, but not vice versa.
>Still trying to get that Apprentice Heretic hat broken in.
Hee! I'm afraid, I can't give you your Heretic Hat, you have to earn it
yourself and place it on your own brow.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch"
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 20:47:08 +1100
From: "Katharine Whitchurch"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2020
> From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au
> Subject: Re: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000 - Don't blame me for the
subject line
>
> >Incidentally, they are having a good long think about their armed forces
at
> >the moment, and are thinking about a military based around patrol boats
and
> >a couple of Army battalions for peacekeeping.
> I may be an outsider, but it sure looks to me as if the NZ government is
> ignoring their defense responsibilities in order to save a few dollars.
I'd actually turn that the other way round - they have had a look at their
defense responsibilities, and have decided that the best way to fit them is
to build a force of specialists.
The reason they can do this is, like most worlds in the 3I, they dont
actually need a defense force, because no one can attack them (in the case
of NZ, it's because of ocean. In the case of most 3I worlds, it's because of
a couple of sectors worth of the IN being between them and an enemy).
What they therefore build is a glorified coastguard and search and recue
force, plus a "political intervention" force - UN peacekeepers in the case
of NZ, hard currency earning mercs in the case of a world in the TU.
Given how little it costs to ship troops if you do it right, I could
actually imagine a world specialising in something like EW - "Yeah, I did a
term with the 312th EW, and a term with the 3rd Rifles. Uhuh, we had 357
Independant EW Companies, three squadrons of Grav Tankettes and a dozen
Rifle Companies".
Ian Whitchurch
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 22:56:47 -0000
From: "Matthew Bond"
Subject: Re: Hebden Bridge - *the* UK Traveller Meet?
- -----Original Message-----
From: SD Mooney
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Cc: hiwg-twg@qrc.com ; andl@nortelnetworks.com
; David Thomas ;
snakebite@halfwaystation.freeserve.co.uk
; andy.slack@gb.unisys.com
; martinjd@globalnet.co.uk
; steve@vriko.freeserve.co.uk
; richard.talbot@btinternet.com
Date: 09 March 2000 21:03
Subject: Hebden Bridge - *the* UK Traveller Meet?
>Hi all,
>
>So who is going to the UK Traveller Meet at Hebden Bridge this weekend?
>
>I know of the following:
>
>Me
>Andy Lilly
>Derrick Jones
>Nick Walker? (I assume)
>
>Who else?
>
>Dom
Me too. Though I haven't had time to sort out accommodation...
I'll be getting a train from Leeds c. 9am Saturday, unless anyone from this
side of the Pennines is going by car and can pick me up.
What should we bring with us? Gaming-material-wise, that is... money for
beer & ACQ goes without saying
Matt,
Leeds
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 22:58:21 +0000
From: Paul Campbell
Subject: Re: Chargen (long)
On Thu, 09 Mar 2000, Steve Daniels wrote:
>
> I'm taking a look at this (I'm distracted today - Carlos sprung a trap
> on our PBEM group - the bastiche!). I will say I generally don't like
Steve you have my simpathies, but just keep him distracted - if he's got you
by the short and curlys then our group should be safer for now ;) Oh hi
Carlos, didn't see you over there. blow to descend at any time!>
> the skill tables with more than 6 options (for no good reason), and
> especially where one skill can be 4 of the 10 options. I much prefer
> additional tables with a requirement, like the Advanced Education
> skill tables. But that may just be me. Still trying to get that Apprentice
> Heretic hat broken in.
>
> bloo
- --
Paul Campbell
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 23:12:22 -0000
From: "Matthew Bond"
Subject: Re: Hebden Bridge - *the* UK Traveller Meet?
I wrote:
>Me too. Though I haven't had time to sort out accommodation...
>
>I'll be getting a train from Leeds c. 9am Saturday, unless anyone from this
>side of the Pennines is going by car and can pick me up.
>
>What should we bring with us? Gaming-material-wise, that is... money for
>beer & ACQ goes without saying
>
>Matt,
>Leeds
Dom,
As an after thought, back in January, Andy Lilly sent me an email to let me
know that he had permission to run of a copy of the HIWG CD for me, but that
BITS could only accept payment by cheque. As I don't have a current account,
I put it on the back burner until I could sort out for someone to write one
on my behalf, and pretty much forgot until you mentioned that Andy was going
on Saturday.
As I can't seem to find the email in question to reply too (It'll be
archived to disk somewhere...) could you find out if it would be possible
for Andy to bring the copy to the meet, and I'll pick it up and pay for it
there?
TIA
Matt
Matthew Bond
mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk
www.akira.swinternet.co.uk/strom.html
- --------------------------------------------------------------
"To strike a man who insults you is one thing...
...To run him through with a sword is quite another!"
- --------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 22:53:34 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: Failure company=failed game?
At 16:43 -0500 9/3/00, "Chauncey Smith" wrote:
>One example from the pass before Steve Jackson games stopped going to
>Origins. They said they made over half there yearly profits from origins and
>gen con.
Hmm.
From a small publisher's perspective, the cost of GenCon (UK in this
case) is expensive. BITS doesn't pay staff (beyond ITUs) but needs to
have perhaps 5 people at a big con like GenCon to support the stand,
the demo games, and to an extent networking with
retailers/distributors etc
This incurs cost (especially as WotC only give day passes for 2
people per stand now), and significant time. the stands themselves
cost several hundred pounds. You wouldn't get much change out of $750
dollars for the 6 foot stand we had at GenCon UK99. Demo tables are
usually free though..
So, we know we have to take a significant amount of money to break
even. However, we do accept that GenCon (forex) has over benefits
(networking, customers, players and most IMPORTANTLY the chance to
promote Traveller). Also different years have different paybacks - 98
wasn't good (no T4, GT was a week late into the UK for us, although
Loren did get us a photocopy of the proof to demo) but 99 was much
better. 97 was very good.
What am I trying to say - Cons aren't necessarily money generating
events for manufacturers. Don't be surprised when their viability is
questioned by the publishers, especially when you have to deal with
things like shop lifting (which does happen, sadly).
Dom (not really speaking officially, just rambling)
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2037
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Traveller-digest Thursday, March 9 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2038
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
re: [OT] Attn - Penguin Boy
Re: [OT] New Zealand's Defence Spending
Re: The Yanks are Coming (was re: Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space)
Dragon
RE: A New Traveller (see Traveller failed 4 times)
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2020
Re: The Yanks are Coming (was re: Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space)
Re: Chargen (long)
Re: Traveller bites the dust?
GT Book publishing schedule
Re: Please read responsibly
Re: marches map in the works
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: [OT] Attn - Penguin Boy
Re: Re Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space
Re: TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Best RPG
Re: [OT] Attn - Penguin Boy
Re: Dragon
Re: Hebden Bridge - *the* UK Traveller Meet?
Re: Hebden Bridge - *the* UK Traveller Meet?
Re: TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
RE: TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Best RPG
Re: Chargen (long)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 22:56:25 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: re: [OT] Attn - Penguin Boy
At 16:43 -0500 9/3/00, Glenn Myers wrote:
>Nothing on penguin aerodynamics, yet.
It's coming, sorry, they're coming.
And they're hidden,
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 22:57:55 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: [OT] New Zealand's Defence Spending
At 16:43 -0500 9/3/00, "Rupert Boleyn" wrote:
>As for the airshow move - I've seen Mirage III's do that, though I
>suspect they probably had near empty tanks, and the old MiG19's had a
>thrust/weight ratio of better than 1, so we don't even need the F16's
>for that.
The old EE/BAe Lightning would do it too...
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 16:11:54 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: The Yanks are Coming (was re: Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space)
Eris Reddoch wrote:
>
> And this is separate from how un-reconstructed Southerners like me see
> 'em:
>
> "DAMN Yankee!" is any American from outside the South.
snip
> Eris.
> American by birth
> Southern by the grace of God!
Weren't we just talking about conquered regions not accepting defeat?
;-P
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 18:52:14 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Dragon
In a message dated 00-03-09 11:05:24 EST, you write:
<< How many people remember being
attracted to Traveller via articles in the Dragon? >>
I remember Traveller articles appearing in Dragon -- I was attracted to
Traveller somewhat earlier than that : )
Gary Gygax liked Traveller a great deal -- he would point to us as a company
who had seen the potential of RPGs and taken advantage of them without trying
to ride his company's coattails.
Of course, that was when he still worked there . . .
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 16:24:31 -0000
From: "Mark Preston"
Subject: RE: A New Traveller (see Traveller failed 4 times)
Very interesting - but why not start simple. Buy a MUD server space
and run canon adventures from players. If it works, then upgrade the
MUD to full graphics. Sell the MUD client link (cheap) and make sure
the game is net-play, no-fee and co-operative rather than solo.
As to the source of the thread (Traveller failed 4 times), here's my 2
credits.
IMHO, Traveller *succeeded* four times - CT, MT, TNE, T4 all are still
going and being played. To me, that's success.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Leonard
> Erickson
> Sent: 08 March 2000 22:09
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: A New Traveller
>
>
> Here's my thoughts on something that can and I think
> *should* be done,
> regardless of whatever *else* gets done regarding new versions.
>
> Create a Traveller *web* game. A program that includes character
> creation, ship combat, possibly personal combat and has modules for
> ship, vehicle and system design.
>
> The most elementary version would have you create your PC
> and some NPCs
> and take your ship out trading, exploring or whatever. You'd visit
> worlds and systems that were set up on the web. True 3-d
> systems. With
> a selection of Major systems predifined at the official web
> site, and
> folks who buy the world design modules being able to link
> in worlds of
> their own.
>
> So, when you visit a system, some of the ships could be
> ships belonging
> to other gamers. Handling combat between owned ships would only be a
> problem in that you'd have to arrange for both players to
> be online at
> the same time.
>
> Alas, I don't think we can easily extend the idea to on-planet
> adventuring, though we could at least have stuff on the level of the
> old MegaTraveller games and similar computer games from the
> past. But
> if we could integrate "computer generated" ports and areas
> with those
> generated by "GMs" we might really have something.
>
> I suspect that if we did it right, the systems controlled by real
> people would be more popular, especially the ones done by people who
> worked at it.
>
> I also suspect, we might need a mechanism for removing "inactive"
> worlds and especially ones that were *really* badly done (though the
> need to "do" them via a program interface might help eliminate gross
> abuses of the rules).
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 13:07:37 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2020
On 8 Mar 00, at 20:47, Katharine Whitchurch wrote:
> > I may be an outsider, but it sure looks to me as if the NZ government is
> > ignoring their defense responsibilities in order to save a few dollars.
>
> I'd actually turn that the other way round - they have had a look at their
> defense responsibilities, and have decided that the best way to fit them
> is to build a force of specialists.
>
> The reason they can do this is, like most worlds in the 3I, they dont
> actually need a defense force, because no one can attack them (in the case
> of NZ, it's because of ocean. In the case of most 3I worlds, it's because
> of a couple of sectors worth of the IN being between them and an enemy).
Or they can have none at all (though in the 3I the Imperium might have
something to say about this). Between the World Wars New Zealand's Army
had about 40 Regulars at one point.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 13:07:37 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: The Yanks are Coming (was re: Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space)
On 9 Mar 00, at 17:42, Steve Daniels wrote:
>
>
> Walter Smith wrote:
>
> > To a resident of New England, a Yankee is someone from Maine.
>
> Well, as a transplanted Bostonian, ex Texan, "Yankee" hear means
> that evil baseball team from New Yahk. People from Maine are
> "Hicks", which goes against my Texan understanding of a "Hick"
> being anyone from the rural areas, or outside of real cities.
>
> > To a resident of Maine, a Yankee is someone from the rural areas
> > of Northwestern Maine, seen as rough, uncultured types
> > who still lack indoor plumbing.
> >
> > "Yank" comes from "Yankee" of course, though I haven't heard anyone use
> > it who came from inside the USofA.
>
> Except when its a verb. ;-)
I though they were both swear words (like "Pom" and "Aussie" :)
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 13:07:37 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Chargen (long)
On 9 Mar 00, at 17:38, Steve Daniels wrote:
>
>
> Eris Reddoch wrote:
>
> > In <38C80901.932E04BB@portcaddo.com>, on 03/09/00
> > at 03:26 PM, Steve Daniels said:
> >
> > Steve,
> >
> > Seeing as Marc has said that he is planning on there being about 5
> > skills levels per 4 year term,
>
> Yes. He has said that T4 assumes 1.25 skills per year. CT always
> had a skill imbalance (Army careers disproportionately gave more
> skills than other careers)., Book 4 and 5 started expanding the ability
> to get more skills, causing additional imbalance (IMO). I haven't
> analyzed MT carefully, yet.
The Army career was balanced out, though. It was horribly hard to stay
in, so you tended to be young, skilled for your age (but lacking
diversity), and have no cash. Perfect for recruitment by mercenary
companies and others who need someone who's good with a gun, but not
much use in the civilian world. And they wonder why the 3I has lots of
Mercs running round.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 19:10:16 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller bites the dust?
I actually enjoyed the Players Option Rules for AD&D I liked the points based
character creation...that's why I'm a big GURPS fan as well....
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 19:11:24 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: GT Book publishing schedule
Does anyone? Loren? :) know the schedule for the remainder of the year and on
into 2001. I know Starports comes out at the end of March...
Thanks
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 16:32:33 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Please read responsibly
Walter Smith wrote:
>
> Ladies and Gentlebeings,
>
> In the past couple of days, I've counted four keyboard kills and at least
> two virtual kills. This headlong disregard for the keyboards that live and work with us every day is simply disheartening.
Since the beginning of March, my count (I archive them separately) is:
6 splorts
3 virtual kills
Your safety reminder is, of course, timely and welcome.
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 16:59:15 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: marches map in the works
scott brandsgaard wrote:
>
<>
>
> And just to make things difficult for myself; imagine if you could
> click on a system and it would take you to a full write up.
For that, you should download Galactic 2.4 (if you have access to a
DOS/Windows machine). (Hmm, seems as if I'm posting this URL every
month or so.) It runs in a DOS window, and has several milieux of star
systems. You can also use Galactic to create your own sectors.
Personally, I enjoy M:1100 (Classic Era) and M:Interstellar Wars (Terra
versus the evil Vilani scum). Go to:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Starship/8023/
to download.
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 19:20:06 -0500
From: "Josh W. Spencer"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Steven Hudson wrote:
>> From: "James W. Lindsay"
>> Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
>>
>> troll...
>
> Or maybe just ignorant/stupid. Do you think he's an Alternity
> or a Rifts -type person?
>
>
Or he could be VR Franko in disguise...the bane of Galactica Fandom....
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 15:58:33
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: [OT] Attn - Penguin Boy
At 04:04 PM 3/9/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>I came across this link and thought of the TML at once.
>http://www.newwave.org/penguin/index.html
>
>They are selling Penguin Mints. Caffein and Peppermint in a tastfully done
>tin.
Hmm.. I wonder how many mints they get out of each penguin...
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 16:02:11
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Re Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space
At 11:28 AM 3/10/2000 +1300, you wrote:
>All the above is why the simley. I'm aware that to you prople in the US
>"Yank" usually means someone from the north-east, but outside the US it
>usually means someone from the US. This is especially true when
>irritating Texans (for example) are found to dislike being called a
>"Yank".
"Yanks" are Americans to non US-folk. "Yankee" is the term for people from
the north east, except in the South where the term is "Damnyankee"
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 16:04:18
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
At 12:33 PM 3/9/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>Hey guys, I have loved Traveller for years and it
>products were many and awesome, BUT it was too
>unweildy. A game called Starfire faced the same
>problem, and one of the players bought the system and
>streamlined it! It now is one of th best space games
>anywhere. It would Traveller good if somwone would do
>the same for this classic. Troy
Anybody notice that we've been getting quite a number of new faces, with
similar posting styles, all saying the same basic thing?
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 19:35:14 -0500
From: "David J. Golden"
Subject: Best RPG
They're outcheating us ... http://www.freevote.com/booth/best_rpg
- -- In an open-source world, nobody needs gates or windows ...
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 00:35:20 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject:
At 18:09 -0500 9/3/00, Paul Campbell wrote:
>Where is Hebden Bridge? If it's not to far (200miles) from me I might come.
Err, within an hour and a half of Liverpool. There is a link to the
tourist info from BITS http://www.bits.org.uk/ and go to Travelling
page. It's somewhere near Leeds AFAIK.
We will have ACQ. Assuming Andy remembers it.
We will have all Rob Prior's material to demo too...
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 18:38:04 -0600
From: Stormhound
Subject: Re: [OT] Attn - Penguin Boy
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
> At 04:04 PM 3/9/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>
> >I came across this link and thought of the TML at once.
> >http://www.newwave.org/penguin/index.html
> >
> >They are selling Penguin Mints. Caffein and Peppermint in a tastfully done
> >tin.
>
> Hmm.. I wonder how many mints they get out of each penguin...
Not many, I'm sure...penguins love their mints. It's easier to get a drink
out of a Vogon.
- --
Stormhound
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 18:41:46 -0600
From: "Shadowcat"
Subject: Re: Dragon
I read the review of Traveller and the article on character generation
survival, in Dragon #18, and then realized that it was produced
locally, I bought it shortly thereafter, and have been hooked ever
since. amusingly enough the first time I actually got to play was at
Winter Wars in 1980, the year that Shadows was playtested as the
Tournament module. I'm not sure, but was this the first official
tournament?
and our team even won that tournament...
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 00:41:46 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: Hebden Bridge - *the* UK Traveller Meet?
At 18:09 -0500 9/3/00, "Matthew Bond" wrote:
>As I can't seem to find the email in question to reply too (It'll be
>archived to disk somewhere...) could you find out if it would be possible
>for Andy to bring the copy to the meet, and I'll pick it up and pay for it
>there?
He's out of contact until Saturday :-(
I'll bring my copy and get him to run me a new one if he forgot it..
Oh yes, Derrick Jones is bring demos of Heaven & Earth and his
Traveller Trader Spreadsheet...
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 00:39:28 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: Hebden Bridge - *the* UK Traveller Meet?
At 18:09 -0500 9/3/00, "Matthew Bond" wrote:
>Me too. Though I haven't had time to sort out accommodation...
There are a group staying at the White Lion?
>I'll be getting a train from Leeds c. 9am Saturday, unless anyone from this
>side of the Pennines is going by car and can pick me up.
Already filled mine with Derek and BITS stuff, sorry.
>What should we bring with us? Gaming-material-wise, that is... money for
>beer & ACQ goes without saying
Anything you want to run. I'm taking T4.1 & Screen, some GT books and
a couple of scenarios. I may take FT Traveller but I don't think that
I'll manage that. I will take magBlast though..
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 18:43:14 -0600
From: Stormhound
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
> Anybody notice that we've been getting quite a number of new faces, with
> similar posting styles, all saying the same basic thing?
Not *all* of us, surely. I don't agree with much of the inestimable Mr.
Hamilton's comments, and I don't know that I'd favor Starfire, particularly
not as a workable model within the Traveller framework.
And I do kind of like penguins, especially the way they all flop over on
their backs when you fly over them. ;)
- --
Stormhound
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 19:47:44 -0500
From: "Garcia, Abel"
Subject: RE: TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
- -----Original Message-----
From: Douglas E. Berry
>Hey guys, I have loved Traveller for years and it
>products were many and awesome, BUT it was too
>unweildy. A game called Starfire faced the same
>problem, and one of the players bought the system and
>streamlined it! It now is one of th best space games
>anywhere. It would Traveller good if somwone would do
>the same for this classic.
Anybody notice that we've been getting quite a number of new faces, with
similar posting styles, all saying the same basic thing?
- --
Now Douglas,
Just because 9 out of 10 crack addicts say their favorite SFRPG is
"STARFIRE" }8P is no reason to accuse them of misrepresenting themselves;)
Abel
("Boy, I sure picked a bad week to give up smoking..." -AIRPLANE!)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 10:53:19 +1000
From: "Scout Harris"
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
- --
On Thu, 09 Mar 2000 16:04:18 Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>Anybody notice that we've been getting quite a number of new faces, with
>similar posting styles, all saying the same basic thing?
Not guilty :)...
I am a returnee (left the list just over a year ago). It's just that before I never had much to say (generally lurked, making the occasional comment).
I still don't have much to say, I just do it louder and longer these days
Scout Harris
(Bought CT in '83 and refereed ever since, thought MT was an improvement, and TNE better still. Tried T4, have bought Gurps but has not used it yet. Presently uses TNE... but still pulls out the older rules set every now and again.
Now wants to combine the simplicity of CT with the scalability and self-consistency of TNE.
All five have their strengths and weeknesses, as will all future versions... which I will buy cos I love the game, as it's about the only thing left that connects me with my younger days.
I Probably live in a dream world... but what the hey... I'm a roleplayer, I'm meant to.
Age 32. Happily married and Father of One
Hi all!)
Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 19:55:25 -0500
From: "Michael Peters"
Subject: Re: Best RPG
Well, my five votes now have us one vote from a tie. One more person will
give us the lead again. Hehehehe, nothing better than stuffing a ballot box.
Mike
- ----- Original Message -----
From: David J. Golden
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2000 7:35 PM
Subject: Best RPG
> They're outcheating us ... http://www.freevote.com/booth/best_rpg
>
> -- In an open-source world, nobody needs gates or windows ...
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 20:16:19 -0500
From: Steve Daniels
Subject: Re: Chargen (long)
Eris Reddoch wrote:
> >I'm taking a look at this (I'm distracted today - Carlos sprung a trap on
> >our PBEM group - the bastiche!).
>
> Hee! Hee! I haven't looked at his messages to my half of the BTE group
> yet, but it can't be any worse than some of the ambushes he's thrown at
> us.
Just when I think I'm being too cautious, it turns out I'm not being
cautious enough. If we survive this mess, I want to rendezvous with
your group, then talk to Eneri and get _all_ of the former Marine
and Army sleepers together and start kicking some ass!
> As for having
> a skill appear multiple times, I disagree with you if you don't like that.
> Yes, I want the character to have a broader range of skills than basic CG
> in CT, but I also don't think having a character with 30 skills, all at
> level 1 is good either.
I agree with career skill concentration, I'll call it. There are several
alternatives to that. I guess one reason I don't like skill duplication
in table, is that I often allow skill selection. One idea I'm playing with
is taking a lesson from the Merchant Prince promotion exams, and
maybe putting skill requirements on military promotions or assignment
requirements. Just thinking out loud here, but what use is a Petty
Officer in the Technical Branch without at least level 2 in a technical
skill? Or a Lieutenant in without at least Admin 1?
> BTW, I didn't have my notes here and I can't spend too much of work time
> on this ;), but I have tables for more than just two Assignments, and some
> of the skills are different. Medical Officers, for example, are a
> separate table from Command/Staff Officers.
Sure, but do they need a separate table? I don't think so. I think it
might be better to handwave all medical officer as staff officers so
they have the option of choosing one of those rear-echelon skills.
I'm beginning to think that different skill tables for different types of
officers should just be done away with. Heaven forfend someone
introduce Warrant Officers. Aaaiiieeee!!
> Oh, and First Aid is different
> from Medical...First Aid is what non-doctors learn and doctors learn
> Medical (for diagnosis, surgery , and trauma care) and Medical defaults to
> First Aid, but not vice versa.
What is Medical 1 then? I think its a Nurse.
> >Still trying to get that Apprentice Heretic hat broken in.
>
> Hee! I'm afraid, I can't give you your Heretic Hat, you have to earn it
> yourself and place it on your own brow.
Guess I'm just Heretic Hat window shopping, at least publicly.
bloo
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2038
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Traveller-digest Friday, March 10 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2039
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Best RPG
Re: Chargen (long)
Re: Re A Dune Lug
Re: Re A Dune Lug
Re: Re LUG-Dune & LUG-Trek [ot]
Re: Re LUG-Dune & LUG-Trek [ot]
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
JTAS Editorial: "You Think We Make this Stuff Up?"
Traveller Renaissance (was: Re: Traveller dead? - clarification - and the death of Alternity)
Re: Chargen (long)
Re: 76 Editions
now this is actually getting humorous...
Re: Chargen (long)
now this is actually getting humorous...
Re: Best RPG
Re: now this is actually getting humorous...
Re: Traveller dead? - a clarification
Re: now this is actually getting humorous...
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
RE: Uno, dos, tres; what do you want in T5, Maria?
Re: The Yanks are Coming (was re: Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space)
Re: Re Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space
Re: Traveller dead? - a clarification
Re: Tell us what you like about Traveller ( was: TOP 4 REASONS WHYTRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 19:18:05 -0600
From: Stormhound
Subject: Re: Best RPG
Michael Peters wrote:
> Well, my five votes now have us one vote from a tie. One more person will
> give us the lead again. Hehehehe, nothing better than stuffing a ballot box.
>
> Mike
You know, this reminds me of a poll some magazine did a couple years ago,
don't recall the exact topic (some most-famous thing or another). But there was
a huge turnout for some guy...Hank-the-something-or-other-dwarf...which was (of
course) ballot box stuffing. I thought it an amusing example of the relative
value of internet polls.
And I notice AD&D is currently languishing in about 15th place. (g)
- --
Stormhound
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 20:24:12 -0500
From: Steve Daniels
Subject: Re: Chargen (long)
Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> The Army career was balanced out, though. It was horribly hard to stay
> in, so you tended to be young, skilled for your age (but lacking
> diversity), and have no cash.
Well who wants to stay in long enough for those ridiculously early
and out-of-place-in-a-high-tech-society aging penalties to come
into play at age 34? ;-)
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 18:57:01 -0700
From: "Legate Legion"
Subject: Re: Re A Dune Lug
From: William F. Hostman
>LUG-Dune: LUG's liscenced Dune RPG, in playtest. As yet, It's not hit my
>FLGS, but LUG's delivered, albeit usually late, on almost every other
>announcement.
Unlike some game companies.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 18:57:01 -0700
From: "Legate Legion"
Subject: Re: Re A Dune Lug
From: William F. Hostman
>LUG-Dune: LUG's liscenced Dune RPG, in playtest. As yet, It's not hit my
>FLGS, but LUG's delivered, albeit usually late, on almost every other
>announcement.
Unlike some game companies.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 18:59:00 -0700
From: "Legate Legion"
Subject: Re: Re LUG-Dune & LUG-Trek [ot]
From: William F. Hostman
>Starship Combat in the base TNE book: not for wargamers... simple, easy,
>and can readily tie-in PC's. If you want SFB-With-an-integrated-RPG, try
>Jovian Chronicles, MegaTraveller, or TNE with Brilliant Lances.
You might want to wait for Spacedock to come out. I was a member of a
playtest group for it & it is very detailed, while keeping the ST flavor, as
well as being perfect for the gearhead in all of us.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 18:59:00 -0700
From: "Legate Legion"
Subject: Re: Re LUG-Dune & LUG-Trek [ot]
From: William F. Hostman
>Starship Combat in the base TNE book: not for wargamers... simple, easy,
>and can readily tie-in PC's. If you want SFB-With-an-integrated-RPG, try
>Jovian Chronicles, MegaTraveller, or TNE with Brilliant Lances.
You might want to wait for Spacedock to come out. I was a member of a
playtest group for it & it is very detailed, while keeping the ST flavor, as
well as being perfect for the gearhead in all of us.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 18:11:55 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
On Thu, 9 Mar 2000 09:48:51 -0800 (PST), john hamilton wrote:
>
> >
> > My dear sir, you are the *only* person who claims
> > that you are part of a
> > conspiracy! We just consider you to be rude.
>
> It's always a good sign when people have to make
> tingds up to have an answer.
Make things up? Like saying that you're "an Agent of T$R"?
> Exspecially when they call themselves "we"......
> Thanks for amusing me...even if it's unintentional.
Strange, it seems that Doug isn't the only one on this list calling you
rude.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
I'd love to, but I've dedicated my life to linguini.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 21:28:50 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin
Subject: JTAS Editorial: "You Think We Make this Stuff Up?"
I just read the abovenamed article, and found it interesting -
not because of the info on tokaj, but because of the way this
information is found, noted, and brought in at an appropriate
time. I'm starting to do this now for my future material for
Freelance Traveller (and I recommend - but don't demand - that
anyone who wants to write for FT do the same); I'm building up a
tidy little file of Good Stuff.
I'm just thinking, though - I'd _love_ to see SJGames's file of
this kind of stuff - I'm practically green with envy over how
much they must have backlogged... :)
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 21:28:52 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin
Subject: Traveller Renaissance (was: Re: Traveller dead? - clarification - and the death of Alternity)
On Wed, 8 Mar 2000 23:24:02 -0500 (EST), Rob Eaglestone
wrote:
>Boris, I'm not completely sure, BUT I think the success of Classic
>Traveller and even MT hinged on the consistent universe as laid out
>by core people: Marc and Loren, plus some supporting cast. The
>licensees thrived in that consistent system, but didn't push the
>borders TOO much. They itemized equipment, drew up deckplans, and
>laid out adventures, all of which functioned in this consistent
>universe.
I don't know that it _hinged_ on this, but I would certainly not
argue against it being a major factor. Through most of the CT
and MT period, Traveller was, as near as I could tell, one of the
_simplest_ systems to run, while at the same time allowing for a
richness of action matched or exceeded only by the most complex
systems then on the market - like the hoary old man of the
industry, Dungeons and Dragons (in its first incarnation of
Advanced at the time). I would contend that this was also a
major factor in its success. The wild success of GURPS probably
owes much to that same concept (having been, according to SJ's
own comments, inspired in part by Traveller), while catering to
the desires of people who wanted varied backgrounds, or
adaptations and "cross-platform" settings. GURPS may not be the
_most_ successful system to date, but it's right up there near
the top, and certainly has the _broadest_ support.
>Therefore, I conclude that the people best able to make a BINDING
>decision about how Traveller should grow is Marc and Loren. As
>you mentioned, we all have our own TU. I suggest that a committee
>of TMLers would be very hard pressed to come up with a new Traveller
>variant that would be accepted. Actually, variants are all over
>our websites; they are tailored according to what we like. But
>even Imperium Games can't tell us what to play.
And, in reality, neither can Marc and Loren. All they can do is
say, "This is what we see; this is what Official Materials will
support". If we like it, we get in line behind The Standard
(sable, a fess gules, in hoist chief on a sun or an annulet
sable) and shout our acclaim. If we sort of like it, but there
are flaws, we stay within sight of The Standard, at a greater or
lesser distance, but maybe we hoist an alternative flag of our
own (gules on a hoist sable a shattered sun argent), and march to
the beat of a different drummer. If we find The Standard
unsupportable in toto, we hoist the Jolly Roger (or the Flaming
Eye) and go off on our own. I think a committee of TMLers
_could_ come up with an acceptable Traveller variant, _if_we_put_
_our_minds_to_it,_and_felt_it_to_be_as_important_as_real_life_;
we can easily get into flamewars about pet aspects of the system
or setting - but we can also rapidly come to a consensus about
whether some aspect of system or setting is the Right Thing.
What we so far haven't shown ourselves able to do is devote the
wholehearted effort needed - as though it would mean untold
riches (ha) for us - without rapidly becoming fatigued or bored,
and finding something else interesting to do.
>Now then, the Rennaisance can still happen: if we were to develop
>ADVENTURES for Traveller, collate equipment lists that were web-
>browsable, draw up deckplans with our ship designs, and write up
>innumerable plot hooks that we could gather into a database
>(even a database distributed between all our sites: as long as
>there were a consistent organization of the data)... well then,
>there WOULD be a Rennaisance. Heck, many have web-published the
>rules ALTERATIONS for adding concepts into Traveller. I've mused
>over Nanotech, Robotech, Cybernetics, and Hacking. All of them
>can be added to Traveller. And if they're kept as options
>packages, then people can easily tailor the game from the core
>rules.
Who is to say that the Renaissance has not already happened, and
is continuing? It seems to me that the large number of highly
regarded Traveller support sites, and the number of Traveller-
related sites at all, and the number of Traveller-related
webrings, all point to the kind of activity that you're
describing in this paragraph. Sure, it's all adhocery, but so
what? What's more, this sort of renaissance is one that could be
"immortal", because the fans _are_ taking an active hand in
creating material. If, G-d forbid, Marc and Loren were both hit
by trucks tomorrow, it would not stop me from running Freelance
Traveller, and continuing to solicit material and occasionally
write my own for it - and I doubt very much that it would slow
Ron Brown and Colin Michæl down from doing the same with
Downport, and I'm sure there are other sites whose webmasters
would feel the same way. I can't promise that my vision of
Traveller is the same as Marc's and/or Loren's, but I've at least
tried to uphold their standards for quality, and there's plenty
of evidence that others have done the same - and that all of us
would continue to do the same in the unfortunate event of Marc's
and/or Loren's absence. With a community like that, I don't see
Traveller as ever being truly dead - and I suspect that it was
that fan community and that attitude that actually kept Traveller
from being murdered by IG.
I think that your Renaissance is for all intents and purposes an
accomplished fact, not a wish. Even if the Comprehensive
Traveller Index And Search Engine is nowhere to be found, and
possibly less than likely ever to be found. (Psst, COLIN! I
think you have a job to do!)
>(Aside: you would not believe how difficult it is to coordinate
>efforts of people on the web. Especially when the subject is a
>hobby rather than a career. Also especially when the subject is
>semi-sacred, such as role playing games.)
I _would_ believe; I hang out in news.groups and
news.admin.net-abuse.* :).
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 20:46:51 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Chargen (long)
Steve Daniels wrote:
>
> Rupert Boleyn wrote:
>
> > The Army career was balanced out, though. It was horribly hard to stay
> > in, so you tended to be young, skilled for your age (but lacking
> > diversity), and have no cash.
>
> Well who wants to stay in long enough for those ridiculously early
> and out-of-place-in-a-high-tech-society aging penalties to come
> into play at age 34? ;-)
<>
Me! Me! That way, I can collect that princely sum of Cr 4000 per annum
for 20 years service! ;-)
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 03:23:50 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: 76 Editions
On Thu, 09 Mar 2000 12:06:20 -0700, Bruce Johnson
wrote:
>MJ Dougherty wrote:
>>
>> The characters are appoached by a gentleman in an expensive suit. He offers
>> them Cr 1500 each plus expenses to market a new version of Traveller.
>>
>> All is as presented, and the new version really exists.
>> Roll 1D to determine the outcome:
>>
>> 1. The title contains a colon*. The TML explodes into flames.
>
>
>
>OhMyGod! You Killed Keyboard! Youuu Bastard!
LOL! That's a 2.0 on the Bornschlegel Scale!
================================================================================
- - Jeff Peterson j_pete@bellsouth.net
"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get
used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
NOG #74 AirStar Nova 700
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 22:40:02 -0500
From: Mark Urbin
Subject: now this is actually getting humorous...
john hamilton put out on the ether:
>Doug Berry writes:
> > My dear sir, you are the *only* person who claims
> > that you are part of a
> > conspiracy! We just consider you to be rude.
>It's always a good sign when people have to make
>tingds up to have an answer.
>Exspecially when they call themselves "we"......
>Thanks for amusing me...even if it's unintentional.
Denial and playing the victim. Hey, it worked for da Prez....
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
You sound reasonable ... time to up my medication
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 17:01:47 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Chargen (long)
On 9 Mar 00, at 20:24, Steve Daniels wrote:
>
>
> Rupert Boleyn wrote:
>
> > The Army career was balanced out, though. It was horribly hard to stay
> > in, so you tended to be young, skilled for your age (but lacking
> > diversity), and have no cash.
>
> Well who wants to stay in long enough for those ridiculously early
> and out-of-place-in-a-high-tech-society aging penalties to come
> into play at age 34? ;-)
Don't know, but I do know that in the Army you'll never get the chance,
as you'll be very lucky to make 3 terms. Getting to make an ageing roll
in the Army would be a novelty.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 23:02:23 -0500
From: Walt Smith
Subject: now this is actually getting humorous...
Mark Urbin wrote:
>>> john hamilton put out on the ether:
>Doug Berry writes:
> > My dear sir, you are the *only* person who claims
> > that you are part of a
> > conspiracy! We just consider you to be rude.
>It's always a good sign when people have to make
>tingds up to have an answer.
>Exspecially when they call themselves "we"......
>Thanks for amusing me...even if it's unintentional.
Denial and playing the victim. Hey, it worked for da Prez....
>>
Besides, aren't the Great Old Ones of the TML allowed to address
themselves in the second person?
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 23:17:24 -0500
From: "David J. Golden"
Subject: Re: Best RPG
Excellent, Smithers ...
And now that I'm dialed back up, under a new IP, I'm a new voter ...
At 07:55 pm 3/9/00 -0500, you wrote:
>Well, my five votes now have us one vote from a tie. One more person
will
>give us the lead again. Hehehehe, nothing better than stuffing a
ballot box.
>
>Mike
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: David J. Golden
>To:
>Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2000 7:35 PM
>Subject: Best RPG
>
>
>> They're outcheating us ... http://www.freevote.com/booth/best_rpg
>>
>> -- In an open-source world, nobody needs gates or windows ...
>>
>
>
- -- In an open-source world, nobody needs gates or windows ...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 23:21:13 -0500
From: "David J. Golden"
Subject: Re: now this is actually getting humorous...
At 11:02 pm 3/9/00 -0500, you wrote:
>Mark Urbin wrote:
>>>> john hamilton put out on the ether:
>>Doug Berry writes:
>> > My dear sir, you are the *only* person who claims
>> > that you are part of a
>> > conspiracy! We just consider you to be rude.
>>It's always a good sign when people have to make
>>tingds up to have an answer.
>>Exspecially when they call themselves "we"......
>>Thanks for amusing me...even if it's unintentional.
>
>Denial and playing the victim. Hey, it worked for da Prez....
>
>>>
>
>Besides, aren't the Great Old Ones of the TML allowed to address
>themselves in the second person?
Dave doesn't think so. Nope, Dave thinks he should address himself
in the third person. Yes, that's what Dave thinks. Now Dave has to go
take his medicine.
-- aka the Horseman Famine, of the Four Horsemen of the Traveller
Apocalypse.
- -- In an open-source world, nobody needs gates or windows ...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 23:29:54 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Traveller dead? - a clarification
From: Douglas E. Berry
> Which is one of the things that killed TSR. Dozens of different
> settings for ADnD that flopped, while the Forgotten Realms keep
> thriving.
A gross oversimplification. TSR during the late 80s and early 90s is a
perfect model for what *not* to do when you're running a business. There was
an astonishing amount of infighting within the company, which is never a
good thing. TSR during that period also focused on getting young
roleplayers, but didn't try to keep them.
Then, thanks to an unholy alliance with the Flint Dille trust TSR sank huge
amounts of cash into the Buck Rogers property. They produced a board game, a
number of novels, a comic book line, a roleplaying game and entirely too
many supplements for it.
Buck Rogers was the straw that broke the camels back.
Don't forget their attempt at a universal RPG. Amazing Engine anyone?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 20:45:43 -0800 (PST)
From: healyzh@aracnet.com
Subject: Re: now this is actually getting humorous...
> >It's always a good sign when people have to make
> >tingds up to have an answer.
> >Exspecially when they call themselves "we"......
> >Thanks for amusing me...even if it's unintentional.
>
> Denial and playing the victim. Hey, it worked for da Prez....
>
> >>
>
> Besides, aren't the Great Old Ones of the TML allowed to address
> themselves in the second person?
>
> Walt Smith
>
I don't know about that, but in this case when the person saying 'we' was
expressing the opinion of more than just himself, I think it's totally
appropriate.
Zane
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 23:48:34 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
From: James W. Lindsay
> > It's always a good sign when people have to make
> > tingds up to have an answer.
>
> Make things up? Like saying that you're "an Agent of T$R"?
While I don't want to get my feet too wet in this here pool, to be fair I
think it was pretty obvious that his "agent of T$R" comment was a sarcastic
one.
On the other hand, I suspect that people are blowing this whole thing way
out of proportion, which is a common malady here on the TML. If people here
on the list insist on taking all this too seriously I'll be forced to filk
again...
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 00:34:59 -0500
From: Thom Jones-Low
Subject: RE: Uno, dos, tres; what do you want in T5, Maria?
>
> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 12:01:01 +0100
> From: "Carl Roger Nilsen"
> Subject: Uno, dos, tres; what do you want in T5, Maria?
>
> >What do you want in T5?
> >
> >There are no wrong answers.
> >
> >- -Rob
> >
> >
[snip]
>
> >V: Worlds
>
> 1. Generation system: Advanced, realistic, able to kick any other system generation systems' behinds out there, and yet conform nicely into an extended UWP code.
> 1a. Variety in planetary density!
> 1b. "Customizable Atmosphere Composition". Causes, effects, probability, etc.
> 1c. Black holes. Pulsars. WOBAFGKMNS. Ia, Ib, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII (D).
> 1d. Variable Bode's Law values.
> 1e. Bring temperature into the generation (like in World Tamer's HB). Useful for finding out if that beach resort planet is really an iceball.
>
I'm guessing you have not seen Gurps Traveller:First In. You get all
this and more. The only complaint I've heard is that it generates too
realistic a system, lacking the variety of inhabitable planets so
prevalent in previous Traveller world generation systems.
> >VI: Adventures
>
> 1. Yes, attached to rulebooks as own chapters, rather than as separate publications.
>
> My brain is venting off steam again.
>
Hot steam or cold steam?
- --
Thomas Jones-Low
tjoneslo@together.net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 01:13:06 -0500
From: Thom Jones-Low
Subject: Re: The Yanks are Coming (was re: Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space)
>
> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 17:16:07 -0500
> From: Walter Smith
> Subject: The Yanks are Coming (was re: Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space)
>
> William F. Hostman wrote:
> >(Yanks, to most US types, tends to refer to the north-eastern seaboard
> >states and their peoples. )
>
> How did that go...
>
> To a non-US resident, a "Yankee" is anyone from the USA.
> To a US resident, a Yankee is someone from the Northeast.
> To a resident of the US Northeast, a Yankee is someone from
> New England (Massachusetts, Delaware, Vermont,
> Rhode Island, Maine).
>
Delaware?? And your missing New Hampshire, not we'd miss it much if it
were gone...
> To a resident of New England, a Yankee is someone from Maine.
> To a resident of Maine, a Yankee is someone from the rural areas
> of Northwestern Maine, seen as rough, uncultured types
> who still lack indoor plumbing.
>
The way I've heard this is:
To a resident of New England, a Yankee is someone from Vermont
To a resident of Vermont, a Yankee is a local who has apple pie with
cheddar cheese for breakfast.
> "Yank" comes from "Yankee" of course, though I haven't heard anyone
> use it who came from inside the USofA.
>
> Walt Smith
>
- --
Thomas Jones-Low
tjoneslo@together.net
A Yankee through and through
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 22:49:12 -0600
From: Bolie Williams IV
Subject: Re: Re Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space
At 11:28 AM +1300 3/10/2000, Rupert Boleyn wrote:
>On 9 Mar 00, at 12:49, William F. Hostman wrote:
>All the above is why the simley. I'm aware that to you prople in the US
>"Yank" usually means someone from the north-east, but outside the US it
>usually means someone from the US. This is especially true when
>irritating Texans (for example) are found to dislike being called a
>"Yank".
Being from Texas, I'm glad I didn't take the bait and get irritated
at being called a Yank. :)
When you do, though, don't forget that the rest of the world thinks
we're a bunch of gun-crazy yahoos. :)
Bolie IV
- --
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 22:58:42 -0600
From: Stormhound
Subject: Re: Traveller dead? - a clarification
Chris Seamans wrote:
> Don't forget their attempt at a universal RPG. Amazing Engine anyone?
Oh, yes. I'll even go so far as to admit that I have several of the
supplements. The ideas behind the game worlds, I must say I mostly liked. The
game system didn't quite cut the mustard. And I'll definitely take GURPS
Traveller (or CT, or MT) over AE Bughunters any day.
- --
Stormhound
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 00:04:28 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Tell us what you like about Traveller ( was: TOP 4 REASONS WHYTRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
From: Eris Reddoch
> >The quaint technology of the Traveller universe may make it easy
> >to concentrate on roleplaying, although I'm not sure I agree entirely.
> >However, the sheer complexity and depth of the official Traveller
> >universe both tend to erase that advantage. In every Traveller
> >game I've ever run I've had to give out prodigious handouts to bring
> >people up to speed on the official Traveller universe.
>
> Like I have to worry about that!
That's because you're a heretic of legendary proportions, Eris. You also run
a PBEM game, if I remember correctly. It would seem to me that the medium of
email would allow you to seamlessly combine background and adventure in ways
that might very well be difficult for a GM at a tabletop game.
> I wouldn't even worry about it *if* I was playing in the OTU. I'd make
> sure they knew about the local area they were starting in and let
> them learn about the rest of the TU as they travelled.
I'm the type of GM who tries to never refer to a gold piece as a gold piece,
though.
To put it another way, I think that it's important to impart a certain
flavor when I start up a campaign. I would give background stuff out anyway,
but my point is simply that lean streamlined tech assumptions may make
roleplaying easier, but a top-heavy setting which is scattered across a
truckload of books, the vast majority of which are out of print, tends to
erase that advantage.
Keep in mind, however, that I have no qualms with ignoring or twisting the
OTU.
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2039
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Traveller-digest Friday, March 10 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2040
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Uno, dos, tres; what do you want in T5, Maria?
Re: One More Time: What do you want in T5?
RE: Traveller TradeWars
Re: The Yanks are Coming (was re: Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space)
Re: Re LUG-Dune & LUG-Trek [ot]
Re: Traveller Went Down?
Re: Traveller TradeWars
Re: Tell us what you like about Traveller ( was: TOP 4 REASONS WHYTRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
Re: marches map in the works
Re: warbots
Re: Re LUG-Dune & LUG-Trek [ot]
TSR silliness (was Re: Traveller dead? - a clarification)
Re: The Yanks are Coming (was re: Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space)
Recursive Bays
Re: Not trav-related but...
Re: now this is actually getting humorous...
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
Re The Yanks are coming
Re Re: Books, Games and the Web
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 23:07:10 -0600
From: Stormhound
Subject: Re: Uno, dos, tres; what do you want in T5, Maria?
Thom Jones-Low wrote:
> I'm guessing you have not seen Gurps Traveller:First In. You get all
> this and more. The only complaint I've heard is that it generates too
> realistic a system, lacking the variety of inhabitable planets so
> prevalent in previous Traveller world generation systems.
I'd counter that complaint by pointing to all the terraforming done by both the Ancients and the 3I. In fact, GT:FI makes mention of the terraforming, and offers
it as an explanation for those times when you can't make canon fit well with science.
And so far as what *I* want in T5...I don't. So long as GT continues to get a solid level of support, I won't bother with a T5. Yes, the character mechanics of
old T's were kind of fun, but what I love about T is the grand sweep of history and the space-opera feel, not the mechanics.
- --
Stormhound
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 00:13:38 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: One More Time: What do you want in T5?
From: Eris Reddoch
> Chris and I don't always agree, but on this I can't find any jot that
> doesn't express my feelings on what should be in T5.
Rockin'! Maybe the rest of the TML will come around.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 18:20:31 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: Traveller TradeWars
> On Behalf Of Rob Eaglestone
> I suppose such a program would need well-organized data.
> Sector data is free, of course. But ship profiles would
> have to be designed... and I don't know if High Guard is
> overkill or underkill, or both... after all, isn't armor
> and structure both important? And aren't laser batteries
> of different strengths nice?
The XML needs to store all the data you need, possibly including references
to ship plans, gifs, etc, which is usually more than any design system
generates.
Though it may be worth starting with High Guard.
> Then you also have owner/captain profiles, which would
> correspond to the player.
Here, you want a "link" document that links a particluar shp instance to an
owner/captain. I'd actualy make the player a completely seperate entity, as
then it would be possible to have players playing multipe captains, who may
have their own in-game statistics.
> Oh heck. Well maybe a first pass will have the bare
> minimum then.
> -------------------------------------
> # instance
> Name= Class= Lasers= Missiles= Sand=
>
>
> # class
> Class= Tons= Jump= Manu= Pow= Crew= Pass= Low= Cargo= Fuel=
>
> # instance
> Player= Age= Credits=
>
What's this stuff above then ?
Don't look like no XML or DTD I'm familiar with.
I'm currently working on XML sector data, I've read in Spinward marches, and
have added detail for the Regina Sector, along with ssytem level dat for
Regina, but am still playing with that format.
I'll be doing ships next, but I suspect that won't be in time for your
needs. So if you do design a DTD, let me kniow, it may save me time.
> If I had an XML parser module...
goto http:\\www.alphaworks.ibm.com look for xml4j
That's the one I'm using.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 23:28:09 -0600
From: "Thomas Vickers"
Subject: Re: The Yanks are Coming (was re: Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space)
According to most folks I know here in Texas, there is no such thing as a
Yankee, just a Damn Yankee and they live somewhere
north and east of here :)
TV
- ------------------------
"Never apologize, never explain."
Hunter S. Thompson
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 23:40:05 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Re LUG-Dune & LUG-Trek [ot]
On 03/09/00 at 12:48 AM, "William F. Hostman" said:
>>What kind of system is the Icon system? I have not played any of the
>>games that LUG produce, so I'm kind of lost here...
>LUG's Icon engine is pretty slick, but has a few flaws...
I've bought a couple of the LUG-Trek books and I agree, "pretty",
"slick" and a "few flaws" describes them well.
>Basics, all based upon LUG-Trek:
>Term-oriented CG with point based option; term length is undefined, but
>is about 1-6 years. Number of terms is by contract with the GM.
>Integrated advantage/disadvantage system.
Those familar with the templates in GT will be right at home. The
difference is the templates are smaller and you put two or three
together to make a character (rather than one) and then customize
with a few more points. The templates are for a race, a career
specialty, and possibly a command. Not bad as point systems go, but
I still want my MT CG. <--pun intended
>a multi-d6, take single highest die system. Roll dice based upon
>attribute, take the highest single die, and then add skill level.
It's an interesting way to combine Attributes and Skills that I
hadn't seen before. I think it makes Attribute a somewhat stronger
factor in Task resolution than Skill, can't say I really liked that.
>Complications: one die is an odd color, and if the odd color is a 6, take
>it plus the highest remaining die; some advantages have additional dice
>for certain tasks, while others are a result modifier added to or
>subtracted from the die+skill result. Atts for humans range 1-5, normed
>at 2; skills run 1-8, and there are specialties with different levels.
And you are trying to have an asset higher than a target number that
varies by Task difficulty. It's similar to MT in that way.
>Combat and Wounds: multi-line, with points-per-line being att based; most
>races use the same number of lines, and injury effects are based upon how
>many lines have been used up. Some maxed out klingons can take an average
>hit from a phaser on heavy disrupt-G (which can destroy objects to about
>1m^3). Simple and playable.
It looks like you can take a lick and keep on kicking, fits Trek.
>Lots of INCREDIBLY well done setting and background info.
Yep.
>Illos range from "WOW" to so-so; lots of photos in base rulebooks, and
>where appropriate. Overall, better art than SJG, and more of it. And, to
>be blunt, unlike SJG or IG, or even TNE-Era GDW, almost all of it is
>linked to what's near it in the rules.
I'm strange about presentation....I thought it was *way* too slick.
Glossy paper, full color photos, fancy 4 color illustrations and
such are more a turn off than a turn on for me. YMMV.
>Starship Combat in the base TNE book: not for wargamers... simple, easy,
>and can readily tie-in PC's.
I liked it. It was simple, tied in with roleplaying the parts, and
included details like allocating energy and doing repairs to keep
everyone in a roleplaying game busy and involved.
>Prices: Slightly higher than I care for. But, they do their homework on
>Trek, and apparently will have done so with DUNE.
Shrug. Cut the glitz and cut the price, but that's just me.
>Personally, I dislike the task system overall, as it just doesn't work
>well in play as written. I much prefer JC. Then again, JC's mechanics
>parallel something I was working on in 1988... but LUG's task system is
>readily adaptable for running Traveller adventures....
All in all, I'd do it the other way around and run Trek adventues
with a set of Traveller rules. Which Traveller rules...why *any*
set will do!
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 20:29:10 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller Went Down?
In mail you write:
> At 01:53 PM 3/8/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>>On Wed, 08 Mar 2000 13:38:52, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>
>>> Dom, you even try it and you'll find yourself looking at the business end
>>> of an Emperor Penguin...
>>
>>I thought penguins had *two* business ends?
>
> The armor piercing one.
Still ambiguous. Consider pengiuns fed *hot* Thai food for example....
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 23:52:06 -0600
From: Rob Eaglestone
Subject: Re: Traveller TradeWars
Frank,
I also have a DTD for Sector data. Want to compare?
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 23:57:16 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Tell us what you like about Traveller ( was: TOP 4 REASONS WHYTRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
On 03/10/00 at 12:04 AM, "Chris Seamans" said:
>> Like I have to worry about that!
>That's because you're a heretic of legendary proportions, Eris.
Why, thank you, thank you *very* much!
>You also
>run a PBEM game, if I remember correctly. It would seem to me that the
>medium of email would allow you to seamlessly combine background and
>adventure in ways that might very well be difficult for a GM at a
>tabletop game.
That's true. OTOH, the downside is that everything I do is in
writing. Makes it harder to "Roll and shout!" your way out of
inconsistancies.
>> I wouldn't even worry about it *if* I was playing in the OTU. I'd make
>> sure they knew about the local area they were starting in and let
>> them learn about the rest of the TU as they travelled.
>I'm the type of GM who tries to never refer to a gold piece as a gold
>piece, though.
>To put it another way, I think that it's important to impart a certain
>flavor when I start up a campaign. I would give background stuff out
>anyway, but my point is simply that lean streamlined tech assumptions may
>make roleplaying easier, but a top-heavy setting which is scattered
>across a truckload of books, the vast majority of which are out of print,
>tends to erase that advantage.
Ah, well, my point is that you don't *have* to adhere to the
top-heavy setting if you don't want to...as you well know.
>Keep in mind, however, that I have no qualms with ignoring or twisting
>the OTU.
My point, exactly!
Eris,
still crazy, after all these years.
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 00:02:58 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: marches map in the works
On 03/09/00 at 04:59 PM, Black ICE said:
>> And just to make things difficult for myself; imagine if you could
>> click on a system and it would take you to a full write up.
>For that, you should download Galactic 2.4 (if you have access to a
>DOS/Windows machine). (Hmm, seems as if I'm posting this URL every month
>or so.) It runs in a DOS window, and has several milieux of star
>systems. You can also use Galactic to create your own sectors.
>Personally, I enjoy M:1100 (Classic Era) and M:Interstellar Wars (Terra
>versus the evil Vilani scum). Go to:
>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Starship/8023/
I swear by Galactic! Okay, I swear *at* it sometimes too, but
that's usually when *I* do something wrong. Jim has hooks where
you can pull up maps or text files on any object on the subsector
maps, and the objects can be in "empty hexes" too. Great software
and at a great price...free!
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 20:35:25 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: warbots
In mail you write:
> Rupert Boleyn writes:
>
>> > You give it a proper AI, and to heck with the Shudusham Accords. Or you
>> > only use the warbots for light duty. Jamming isn't the only problem,
>> > being a constant emitter also makes you a wonderfully easy to find
>> target.
>>
>> But now we're talking about TL17+ (or Virus) :)
>
> Nah, I don't mean artificial sentience. Just decent semi-autonomous decision
> making; dogbrains are plenty. Probably TL 12 or so. Bear in mind
> the Shudusham Accords wouldn't exist unless there was something to react
> to...
Actually, you may be able to get by with *very* dumb warbots. Use
"swarm intelligence" (see article in current Scientific American).
Basicly, some *very* simple "rules" implemented by a *lot* of similarly
programmed units produce some *very* organized behavior.
Oh yeah, a "bio" option. Genetically engineered "bees" that are
attracted to the "scent" of weapons, and when near them attack humans.
Add in the "killer bee" defense tactic (kill one bee, all the others in
range swarm you) and you've got a fair to moderate chance of disarming
enemies who don't have seled environment suits.
Oh yeah, I just remembered a *simple* but nasty trick from a story
written during the Vietnam war.
Small, autonomous aircraft. Tree-skimming, *quiet* and armed. They'd
pop up out of nowhere and suprising guerillas. And they were rumored to
have a "telepathic gunsight" in that they always seemed to nail the
leaders, the *committed*, ... Obviously they could "tell" if you had
"evil intent".
Actually, what they did was only fire at those who fired on them. Which
given the surprise nature of the encounters *would* have exactly the
effect described. the "better soldiers" buy it. Ditto for those
committerd to the cause. The hesitant ones don't get shot at.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 23:14:56 -0700
From: "Legate Legion"
Subject: Re: Re LUG-Dune & LUG-Trek [ot]
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
>On 03/09/00 at 12:48 AM, "William F. Hostman" said:
>>Personally, I dislike the task system overall, as it just doesn't work
>>well in play as written. I much prefer JC. Then again, JC's mechanics
>>parallel something I was working on in 1988... but LUG's task system is
>>readily adaptable for running Traveller adventures....
>
>All in all, I'd do it the other way around and run Trek adventues
>with a set of Traveller rules. Which Traveller rules...why *any*
>set will do!
I have already converted quite a few CT ships to LUGTrek & I am currently
working on converting the Aslan to LUGTrek, I would be happy to post the AHL
to the TML so you can see the format that the ships use.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 01:19:06 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: TSR silliness (was Re: Traveller dead? - a clarification)
Chris Seamans wrote:
> Don't forget their attempt at a universal RPG. Amazing Engine anyone?
Actually, they may try that bit again. Have you read about the TSR Open
Source RPG they're thinking of foisting upon us?
GC
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 00:12:13 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: The Yanks are Coming (was re: Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space)
On 03/09/00 at 04:11 PM, Bruce Johnson said:
>> Eris.
>> American by birth
>> Southern by the grace of God!
>Weren't we just talking about conquered regions not accepting defeat? ;-P
Defeat? Hell, we'uns is jest lulling them damnyankees into a
sense'a false confidence! ;-J
Eris,
taking the *looong* view
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 01:27:47 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Recursive Bays
Jens Rydholm types:
>GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:
>> We won't even go into the lack of rules for anything larger than,
>> say, the Kinunir, and please don't ask about the recursive docking
>> bays...
>
>What are recursive docking bays?
>
>Seriously, I have no idea. Please tell me.
>
Alternity ship design does not use fixed volumes, instead using the rather
nebulous "Compartments" which is derived from "Durability".
One of the docking facilities made available in the Starships book was the
Dedicated Docking Bay. As a structure it takes up a certain amount of the
ship's total Durability and generally fills a whole Compartment. The
Dedicated Bay can hold a specific vessel (defined during construction) of up
to twice the Durability Rating of the bay. Tweaking the durability limits
per compartment (using the "alien" ship guidelines) it is possible to design
a ship that can carry its twin around in an internal bay...
GC
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 00:34:09 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Not trav-related but...
On 03/09/00 at 01:33 PM, Bruce Johnson said:
>Some of the Great Old Ones are featured in todays After Y2K
>(by Nitrozac, who is THE hottest TTB in GoGo boots ever!)
>http://www.geekculture.com/geekycomics/Aftery2k/aftery2kmain.html
Hey! All those ads are for here! Wow! There's an ad for the Pace
Chiropractic Clinic, that's just up the road! Cool!
Eris.
oh my aching back!
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 00:38:38 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: now this is actually getting humorous...
On 03/09/00 at 11:02 PM, Walt Smith said:
>Denial and playing the victim. Hey, it worked for da Prez....
>Besides, aren't the Great Old Ones of the TML allowed to address
>themselves in the second person?
We are most amused!
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 22:48:43 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
On Thu, 9 Mar 2000 01:16:27 -0800 (PST), john hamilton wrote:
[snip]
> This list is very interesting for a Traveller
> player,and snoby conspiracy theorists even make it funny.
Don't forget that it was *you* who first mentioned the word "conspiracy".
You are a troll, John. You send a controversial post (with an all CAPITALS
subject line), whose topic anyone would know to be a sensitive one. You
posted a bunch of gripes you have about the game and didn't bother offering
any suggestions. Of course you're going to get heated responses. If you
have been on the list for a year like you say, you should be fully aware
that this sort of behaviour is rude.
You began your initial post stating that "Traveller has failed four times",
or something to that extent. Yet you have been unable to convince anyone
that this is true. CT, MT, and TNE never "failed", and neither did T4
really. CT *evolved* into MT. MT *evolved* into TNE. TNE then ceased to
be due to the lawsuit against GDW (this was *not* the fault of TNE itself).
T4 *evolved* from a combination of all three, but was poorly *managed*
(again, this was *not* the fault of T4 itself). Get your facts straight
before leaping into dangerous territory.
You say that random character generation systems aren't what most people
want in an RPG. Yet the most *popular* RPG of all time-- AD&D-- still uses
a random statistic generation system that limits which character class you
can play.
I won't bother commenting on your "outdated setting" comment because it is
solely based on opinion.
As for Traveller's current "gearheadedness", you can hardly call that fair
for a game that attempts to be as scientifically accurate as possible
without invalidating key Sci-Fi necessities (like FTL travel). You didn't
bother to note in your slander of the game that nearly all of those design
rule sets were *optional*.
Finally, you make snide comments to everyone else's responses with comments
like "I find this interesting", or "this amuses me"-- as if you are some
sort of omnipotent being heads above everyone else. This is another troll
tactic to keep yourself heard. To make a point, I find it "interesting"
how people can get their rocks off by trolling.
Case in point: your response to Steve Daniels' first reply simply reeked of
"bad attitude". Steve wasn't rude, yet you went out of your way to be rude
in response. You also responded to Paul Campbells polite email to take it
upon yourself to demean others on the list.
Troll. Nothing more. Tuning out...
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
If you choke a smurf, what color does it turn?
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 22:49:32 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
On Wed, 08 Mar 2000 20:04:03 +0100, Ingo Heinscher wrote:
> At 20:18 07.03.00 -0800, James W. Lindsay wrote:
>
> >> >Correction: it's worlds with starports *with stuff to trade*. Profit can
> >> >be made every step of the way along a jump-1 main, while the same is
> >> >impossible jumping through three intervening empty space hexes.
> >>
> >> Agreed on both. Though I'd say that (assuming something which is not true
> >> for the ZS, that is, you want to build your empire by spreading your own
> >> population among the stars) it's still more economic to bring people to an
> >> off-main world and bring them the first few production goods they need
> >> rather than to ship them along a "main world" some one or even two years
> away.
> >
> >Again, nobody is suggesting that production goods would be transported over
> >a distance of so many parsecs (ie: a year or two away). It took 300 years
> >for the Ziru Sirka to expand to 10 parsecs. Just pretend that it took 30
> >years for every 1 parsec radii expansion change and you'll see that most of
> >the new colonies would become quite proficient at creating the stuff
> >necessary for the next ring of worlds to be colonized.
>
> But this shows just one thing: _If_ you want to build an empire by
> spreading your own population, going the way the Vilani went is not the
> best approach.
Are you trying to make some real world comparison here? If so, your
argument has a l-o-n-g way to go. You simply *cannot* compare our own real
life Earthling philosophies with the fictional Vilani and say "If I were
Vilani, I wouldn't have gone about it that way."
However, if you are comparing the Ziru Sirka empire building approach to
other Traveller races, I would like to point out that the ZR at one point
encompassed 15,000 worlds. Obviously, they did something right.
You, on the other hand, seem to think that the Vilani should have
progressed far more coreward and trailing than they did-- and much more
rapidly too. Congratulations: you've just changed the whole Traveller
universe. The Vilani would have come across the Vargr before they even
managed to elevate themselves beyond TL1. They would have become a
subjugated race under the Ziru Sirka and would never have even been allowed
to colonize the region of space coreward of the present Third Imperium.
The Ziru Sirka might not have progressed as far as K'kree space, but you
could pretty much bet on a state of war existing between these two powers
at the height of the Ziru Sirka because of their close proximity to each
other. And with that little conflict going on, chances are that the
present Aslan and Solomani borders wouldn't be what they are now due to all
of the resources being directed coreward and trailing. God help them if
the Vilani had encountered the Hivers with hostile intentions.
You *cannot* simply look at the old star maps of the Ziru Sirka and
suddenly claim that the Vilani didn't know how to build a large stable
empire. There's more to it than that. Hindsight is 20/20.
> The thing that I forgot here when I started this thread is:
> The Vilani didn't plann to bzuuild an empire. Tehy just invented jump
> drive, made a profit out of it, and waited a few centuries. _Then_ they
> thought it would be better for them to make an empire out of
> then-known-space.
I wholeheartedly disagree. Exactly how do you describe "building an
empire"? What is your definition of "empire" anyway? I really think you
need to reread V&V.
> If the Vilani had been more Solomani-like(and tehre
> wouldn't have been so mani minor races), they would probably have settled
> the way I had in mind. But this was not the case.
But that's the *whole* point! The Vilani mindset isn't *anything* like the
Solomani mindset. That's why they have nearly 40 pages of dedicated text
in "Vilani & Vargr"-- the Vilani *are* an alien race.
You're free to do whatever you want in YTU-- but deviating from any aspect
of canon is a very sensitive issue (with domino-like consequences). If you
want to start mucking with the "whys" and "hows" regarding the Vilani's
initial colonization of their surrounding space...
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
If you choke a smurf, what color does it turn?
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 21:39:26 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re The Yanks are coming
>"Yank" comes from "Yankee" of course, though I haven't heard anyone
>use it who came from inside the USofA.
>
>Walt Smith
It gets used a good bit in Alaska. Then again, Alaska is a wierd place,
full of wierd people.
And it's not even a swaer word up here... just a reference to persons east
of the ol'miss (Mississippi River) and north of the mason dixon line.
Ob Trav: Does the term "impy" get used IYTU?
IMTU, it refers to civil servants. In a friend's TU, it refers to denizens
of the Core Sector, or the domain of sylea.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 21:34:56 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Re: Books, Games and the Web
>Joseph Dietrich wrote:
>
>> Oh, uninitiated one, you should take a peek at the recurring discussions on
>> the FUDGE mailing list. It can have as much detail as you want to put into
>> it. ;-)
>
>That is sort of what I mean. A system so abstract that it can accept
>any level of detail you want to put into. "You want 72+ stats. Fudge
>will do it. You want 1 stats. Fudge will do that to." To which my
>knee-jerk response is, then what is the flipping point? I could create
>my own RPG system and it could be wedged into Fudge. So, it
>seems to me that the D in Fudge, for Do-it-yourself, is the main
>thing. Its just a faster way to create your own RPG.
The best sets of mechanics I've ever used have essentially been "Create
your game" style rulesets. Hero System, other than for supers, really is a
set of rules to be customized (at least in 4th ed...). CORPS is an engine
devoid of setting or setting specific material in the base (2nd Ed) rules.
I've not run FUDGE, YET, (I won't until I can get a copy of the rules on
paper. I just can't read the damned thing on-screen on a (effectively) 13"
monitor, and don't have a printer.)
>I don't want to indict the Fudge system too much, as I've just finished
>downloading it and haven't had a chance to read it fully. I'm sure its
>not bad. It just doesn't seem to be what I want.
>
>What I am thinking of is a defined RPG system, not a system
>to make your own RPG, that is background free. Maybe,
>just maybe, it has a "lite" version.
Fudge takes a simple approach: Here's a task system, and a set of
guidelines for experience, combat, and CGen. Here's a skill list, too. Now,
pick and choose your options.
Sounds a lot like Rolemaster. BTW, Spacemaster (Rolemaster in space) is
fairly devoid of setting specific details in the base books.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2040
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Traveller-digest Friday, March 10 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2041
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
now this is actually getting humorous...
Re: Chargen (long)
Re: Re The Yanks are coming
Re: Re The Yanks are coming
Re: warbots
Re: Re Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space
Re: 76 Editions
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Best RPG
Re: Dragon...
Re: now this is actually getting humorous...
Re: NZ F16s (plus obTrav)
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2039
Re: Hebden Bridge - *the* UK Traveller Meet?
Re: Re Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space
Hebden Bridge Meet up (TML UK)
Re: Chargen (long)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 21:53:23 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: now this is actually getting humorous...
john hamilton put out on the ether:
>Doug Berry writes:
> > My dear sir, you are the *only* person who claims
> > that you are part of a
> > conspiracy! We just consider you to be rude.
>It's always a good sign when people have to make
>tingds up to have an answer.
>Exspecially when they call themselves "we"......
>Thanks for amusing me...even if it's unintentional.
John, I agreed with all of Doug and Leonards comments. BTW, comparing you
to Cliff was an error... you're still small potatoes to the Dreaded Cliff,
despised by most and mercifully gone from our TML.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 00:54:29 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Chargen (long)
On 03/09/00 at 08:16 PM, Steve Daniels said:
>I agree with career skill concentration, I'll call it. There are several
>alternatives to that. I guess one reason I don't like skill duplication
>in table, is that I often allow skill selection.
If the player has a concept for the character, then I'm up for them
selecting many of the skills. Rolls are for variety and to jog the
creative juices.
>One idea I'm playing
>with is taking a lesson from the Merchant Prince promotion exams, and
>maybe putting skill requirements on military promotions or assignment
>requirements. Just thinking out loud here, but what use is a Petty
>Officer in the Technical Branch without at least level 2 in a technical
>skill? Or a Lieutenant in without at least Admin 1?
Turn the normal Promotion procedure on it's head? How about,
instead of Roll for Promotion and if you succeed you get a skill,
you Roll for Promotion *when* you get to a specified skill level?
>> BTW, I didn't have my notes here and I can't spend too much of work time
>> on this ;), but I have tables for more than just two Assignments, and some
>> of the skills are different. Medical Officers, for example, are a
>> separate table from Command/Staff Officers.
>Sure, but do they need a separate table? I don't think so. I think it
>might be better to handwave all medical officer as staff officers so they
>have the option of choosing one of those rear-echelon skills.
Hum, well, the skills a Commanding Officer is exposed to *are*
different from those a Staff Officer. Medical doctors in the
military aren't going to be in Line Command positions, so they will
be Staff, but they won't normally get Ship or Fleet Tactics either.
They are are a special exception, really.
>I'm beginning to think that different skill tables for different types of
>officers should just be done away with. Heaven forfend someone introduce
>Warrant Officers. Aaaiiieeee!!
Isn't that really what those +4's on E7+ are all about?
>> Oh, and First Aid is different
>> from Medical...First Aid is what non-doctors learn and doctors learn
>> Medical (for diagnosis, surgery , and trauma care) and Medical defaults to
>> First Aid, but not vice versa.
>What is Medical 1 then? I think its a Nurse.
I wouldn't say so. I'd say to be a Medical Doctor you need a
degree from a Medical School and to be a Nurse you need a degree in
Nursing from a college. Those that have First Aid (or Medical)
without the credentials are Corpsmen, Med Techs, and Physician's
Assistants.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 23:04:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Ray Wiberg
Subject: Re: Re The Yanks are coming
Yeah, but up there, they call the mainland US the lower 48. Last Frontier,
individualists and all that.
Ray
On Thu, 9 Mar 2000, William F. Hostman wrote:
> >"Yank" comes from "Yankee" of course, though I haven't heard anyone
> >use it who came from inside the USofA.
> >
> >Walt Smith
>
> It gets used a good bit in Alaska. Then again, Alaska is a wierd place,
> full of wierd people.
>
> And it's not even a swaer word up here... just a reference to persons east
> of the ol'miss (Mississippi River) and north of the mason dixon line.
>
> Ob Trav: Does the term "impy" get used IYTU?
>
> IMTU, it refers to civil servants. In a friend's TU, it refers to denizens
> of the Core Sector, or the domain of sylea.
>
>
> William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
> interface!"
> Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
> 533
> aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin
> IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
> pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 23:04:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Ray Wiberg
Subject: Re: Re The Yanks are coming
Yeah, but up there, they call the mainland US the lower 48. Last Frontier,
individualists and all that.
Ray
On Thu, 9 Mar 2000, William F. Hostman wrote:
> >"Yank" comes from "Yankee" of course, though I haven't heard anyone
> >use it who came from inside the USofA.
> >
> >Walt Smith
>
> It gets used a good bit in Alaska. Then again, Alaska is a wierd place,
> full of wierd people.
>
> And it's not even a swaer word up here... just a reference to persons east
> of the ol'miss (Mississippi River) and north of the mason dixon line.
>
> Ob Trav: Does the term "impy" get used IYTU?
>
> IMTU, it refers to civil servants. In a friend's TU, it refers to denizens
> of the Core Sector, or the domain of sylea.
>
>
> William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
> interface!"
> Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
> 533
> aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin
> IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
> pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 02:08:52 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: warbots
From: Leonard Erickson
> Actually, you may be able to get by with *very* dumb warbots. Use
> "swarm intelligence" (see article in current Scientific American).
Or, alternately see the layman's pop-science book "Out of Control". Only
marginally about weapons, but a great starting point.
> Basicly, some *very* simple "rules" implemented by a *lot* of
> similarly programmed units produce some *very* organized
> behavior.
Yep. I've been fiddling with ideas like this for my own Traveller universe.
This sort of thing completely changes the battlefield, however, so the
classic mercenary model of Trav goes right out the window. After all, you no
longer have to drop infantry types down, instead you dump really smart
autonomous ordinance which tends to make life pretty damn unpleasant for
your average planet-dweller.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 01:21:43 -0600 (CST)
From: houstonshocky@webtv.net
Subject: Re: Re Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space
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Actually here in Texas, anyone North of I-10 is considered a Yankee.
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Subject: Re Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space
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On 9 Mar 00, at 12:49, William F. Hostman wrote:
> >And Bujold does have Yanks in Space - they're called Betans :)
> >
> They're Yanks? I'd say more californians... ;)
>
> Actually, they are more anarcho-capitalists with a strongly socialized
> system of supports and a service based local economy, from what little we
> actually know about Beta. The US is definitely NOT anarcho-capitalist...
>
> To me, Beta seems about like Afgani trade ethics combined with califonian
> morality, and US Mil-Ind-Complex... with a touch of brittish "right and
> proper" attitude thrown in. YMMV. It's equally as alien to my US senses as
> Barrayar.
>
> (Yanks, to most US types, tends to refer to the north-eastern seaboard
> states and their peoples. )
All the above is why the simley. I'm aware that to you prople in the US
"Yank" usually means someone from the north-east, but outside the US it
usually means someone from the US. This is especially true when
irritating Texans (for example) are found to dislike being called a
"Yank".
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
- --WebTV-Mail-27893-3063--
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 23:35:17 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: 76 Editions
>From: "MJ Dougherty"
...
>1. The title contains a colon*. The TML explodes into flames.
...
>*Worlds in Darkness: Traveller
I'm still waiting for WereBoar: The Aporkalypse
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 02:44:14 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
From: James W. Lindsay
> You are a troll, John. You send a controversial post (with an all
> CAPITALS subject line), whose topic anyone would know to be a
> sensitive one.
Oh, come on James. Stirring up a hornet's nest every once in awhile isn't
really a bad thing. Controversy is not bad, and holy cows should be sniped
every once in awhile.
Other people, myself included, have brought up many of the same arguments
which John did. I think some of his comments have been over the top he does
raise points which are frequently discussed on the list.
> You posted a bunch of gripes you have about the game and didn't
> bother offering any suggestions. Of course you're going to get
> heated responses. If you have been on the list for a year like you
> say, you should be fully aware that this sort of behaviour is rude.
I've been on the list for much longer than a year, and I'd be a rich man if
I had a nickle for every time someone griped without offering a solution.
> You began your initial post stating that "Traveller has failed four
> times", or something to that extent. Yet you have been unable to
> convince anyone that this is true.
He didn't convince me, but this is something which I already knew.
> CT, MT, and TNE never "failed", and neither did T4
> really. CT *evolved* into MT. MT *evolved* into TNE. TNE then
> ceased to be due to the lawsuit against GDW (this was *not* the
> fault of TNE itself). T4 *evolved* from a combination of all three, but
> was poorly *managed* (again, this was *not* the fault of T4 itself).
> Get your facts straight before leaping into dangerous territory.
Actually, his facts pretty much are straight. You've left out some important
points in your analysis:
CT did indeed fail. The fan base did really dwindle over the years.
MegaTraveller failed on a number of levels, and eventually the fanbase
dwindled away as well. TNE was already in a state of decline when GDW closed
its doors. T4 had so many problems that it's really depressing.
You can play around with the definition of failure all you want, but there
is truth to the idea that CT and MT both went out of print long before the
death of GDW, and MT died quite some time before the birth of TNE.
> You say that random character generation systems aren't what most
> people want in an RPG. Yet the most *popular* RPG of all time--
> AD&D-- still uses a random statistic generation system that limits
> which character class you can play.
AD&D has managed to survive with a random character generation. There are
very real differences between AD&D and Traveller, however. Point-based
chargen systems for CT popped up a number of times in different gaming
magazines, and such a system was a popular house rule in the days of Classic
Traveller.
Incidentally, the latest incarnation of Traveller, GURPS Traveller, seems to
be doing well with a point based chargen system.
> I won't bother commenting on your "outdated setting" comment
> because it is solely based on opinion.
Of course it is, but I've personally raised the same argument, and I've met
people who were turned off to Traveller because of it. Again, it really is a
valid criticism.
> As for Traveller's current "gearheadedness", you can hardly call that
> fair for a game that attempts to be as scientifically accurate as
> possible without invalidating key Sci-Fi necessities (like FTL
> travel). You didn't bother to note in your slander of the game that
> nearly all of those design rule sets were *optional*.
Everything is optional in a roleplaying game, of course. However, it helps
to have alternate tools at your disposal. A friend of mine was quite
distressed upon seeing the complexity of FF&S2, for example. Lots of people
have raised this criticism in the past, and there are a lot of people who'd
like to return to the simple days of High Guard.
If I remember correctly, some time back Marc Miller himself made a comment
to the effect that he wanted to simplify starship design for T5.
I'm not going to defend John's attitude, but I will say that his points are
at least valid.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 01:45:44 -0600 (CST)
From: houstonshocky@webtv.net
Subject: Re: Best RPG
- --WebTV-Mail-26521-39
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1601 votes now (12.9%). Myth is less than 50 votes behind.
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Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 19:35:14 -0500
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
From: "David J. Golden"
Subject: Best RPG
In-Reply-To:
References: <4.2.0.58.20000305222327.0095c9e0@mail.dlcty1.va.home.com> <4.2.0.58.20000305222327.0095c9e0@mail.dlcty1.va.home.com>
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They're outcheating us ... http://www.freevote.com/booth/best_rpg
- -- In an open-source world, nobody needs gates or windows ...
- --WebTV-Mail-26521-39--
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 18:18:05 +1000
From: "The Roc"
Subject: Re: Dragon...
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Shadowcat
To:
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: Dragon
> I read the review of Traveller and the article on character generation
> survival, in Dragon #18, and then realized that it was produced
> locally, I bought it shortly thereafter, and have been hooked ever
> since. amusingly enough the first time I actually got to play was at
> Winter Wars in 1980, the year that Shadows was playtested as the
> Tournament module. I'm not sure, but was this the first official
> tournament?
>
> and our team even won that tournament...
>
>
Funny thing, it seems I read very few reviews about anything until after I
got interested in it!? Traveller was my very first RPG and at that time, I
knew NOBODY that played RPG's - I did know a lot of miniatures and board
game players (Squad Leader for example) and the thought RPG's a foolish
waste of time and money (LOL - was I far-sighted!?). My first contact with
an RPG'er was when I delivered a letter (as a temp/fill-in postie) to a
young bloke of 17 I never knew - the letter was in an envelope of the
largest mail-order game and miniature sellers in Australia at the time, and
probably still is... so I wrote a "wanna chat?" message on the envelope and
the next day I had coffee and bikkies with this stranger who knew the huge
amount of two other RPG'ers!! The rest they say is history and I haven't
looked back...
Anyway, this bloke did subscribe to Dragon while I subscribed to JTAS (the
LBB-sized mags), and I read the review in there well after I bought
Traveller. And chance would have it, that everytime I purchased a new
gaming item (for whatever system), I would see the review days or weeks or
months later and get to read them... so magazines were not a very good
option for me to discover new things as the old MilSim's Catalogue always
had a "Near Future Release" listing in a different colour to listings of
"New Releases" which was a different colour to the older stuff.
Now, after re-reading how I found my first player (other than myself) and
thus my first group (being the oldest at 20, I was the guru or some reason
and was therefore the usual GM/ref... which by the way, in my game group
[CotR - well before WotC] I coined the phrase "Game Organiser & Director" -
GOD for short), it sounds to me as a, errrr, not usual fashion for starting
up... how did others do it, if I may ask?
- -- The Roc
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 18:32:20 +1000
From: "The Roc"
Subject: Re: now this is actually getting humorous...
- ----- Original Message -----
From: William F. Hostman
To:
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2000 4:53 PM
Subject: now this is actually getting humorous...
>
> John, I agreed with all of Doug and Leonards comments. BTW, comparing you
> to Cliff was an error... you're still small potatoes to the Dreaded Cliff,
> despised by most and mercifully gone from our TML.
>
But with encouragement...? ;)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 19:23:14 +1100
From: "Katharine Whitchurch"
Subject: Re: NZ F16s (plus obTrav)
> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 12:12:44 EST
> From: GaryBartz@aol.com
> Subject: [OT] New Zealand's Defence Spending
>
> In a message dated 3/8/00 6:28:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
>
> << It's not actually because of the cost (though it's true that they
> are/were going to be expensive), but because the purchase makes little
> sense. F16s are about as much use to New Zealand as tits on a Bull.
> What we need are new A4 Skyhawks, but failing that FA18s would probably
> be the best choice.
> >>
>
> I am an old DASC guy [Marine Corps strike aircraft and helo field
controller
> and sort of dispatcher], and so maybe I am confused by my old view of the
air
> world.
> Why the heck do you guys want 16's? The air defense? Why not 15 strike
eagles
> for all round? About that same maintance reqirements [within 50%] for an
all
> round.
> Hell, for that matter, what about some knock off export fighters and A-10s
> for peacekeeping time on station missions and internal supression?
> Do your pols just want the cool straight up airshow move?
This is the short version. Pakistan buys and pays for a bunch of shiny new
F16s, and starts building nukes. US Congress goes ballistic over the latter,
and prevents exports of the former. F16s sit on tarmac in Arizona. Years
pass. US government makes NZ government an offer they cant refuse - real
cheap, low flying hours F16s, only one careful owner. NZ government signs
agreement to buy. NZ government loses office. New left-wing government
decides whether or not to accept said offer.
To pull this ob-Trav, the PCs have been hired by some shmuck planetary
government on the edge of nowhere to do the Due Diligence on a bunch of SDBs
that got caught up in politics (say, built for a now-ex Vargr government) -
check if they work to specs, and then transport them to their new home.
Needless to say, the government that hired them falls, and the new
government instructs their purchasing agents to find some other world to buy
them.
Ian Whitchurch
To pull this ob-Trav,
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 19:38:42 +1100
From: "Katharine Whitchurch"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2039
> Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 20:46:51 -0600
> From: Black ICE
> Subject: Re: Chargen (long)
> > Well who wants to stay in long enough for those ridiculously early
> > and out-of-place-in-a-high-tech-society aging penalties to come
> > into play at age 34? ;-)
>
> <>
>
> Me! Me! That way, I can collect that princely sum of Cr 4000 per annum
> for 20 years service! ;-)
Dont forget, that Cr 4000 is in Imperial credits. If you have a TL8 world
with a credit that trades at 10:1 against the Imperial and an average wage
in local credits of Cr 8000, you just exited your 20 year stint with a
pension worth 5 times average earnings ...
Ian Whitchurch
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 09:49:00 +0000
From: Andy Coombes
Subject: Re: Hebden Bridge - *the* UK Traveller Meet?
At 05:34 PM 09/03/2000 +0000, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>So who is going to the UK Traveller Meet at Hebden Bridge this weekend?
>
>I know of the following:
>
>Me
>Andy Lilly
>Derrick Jones
>Nick Walker? (I assume)
I'm coming too.
Andy Coombes.
- ----
"Monsters don't eat fishcakes... They eat Elephants RAAA!"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 22:49:44 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Re Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space
On 9 Mar 00, at 22:49, Bolie Williams IV wrote:
> At 11:28 AM +1300 3/10/2000, Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> >On 9 Mar 00, at 12:49, William F. Hostman wrote:
> >All the above is why the simley. I'm aware that to you prople in the US
> >"Yank" usually means someone from the north-east, but outside the US it
> >usually means someone from the US. This is especially true when
> >irritating Texans (for example) are found to dislike being called a
> >"Yank".
>
> Being from Texas, I'm glad I didn't take the bait and get irritated
> at being called a Yank. :)
>
> When you do, though, don't forget that the rest of the world thinks
> we're a bunch of gun-crazy yahoos. :)
Ah, but we have a fine customs service invented especially to take guns
off people like you :)
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 10:10:56 -0000
From: "Derrick Jones"
Subject: Hebden Bridge Meet up (TML UK)
For those wondering how to get to the Trav Meet up this link
would be useful....
http://www.hebdenbridge.co.uk/tourist-info/info3.html
I have plenty of info on accomodation, and hopefully the White Lion
would be available, so just turn up. You'll get hotel accomodation
(B&B/Pub) easily enough.
Derrick
Derrick Jones
St Helens
Lancashire UK
http://www.btinternet.com/~dojones.whitestar
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 10:06:05 +0000
From: Phil Kitching
Subject: Re: Chargen (long)
Eris Reddoch wrote:
>Seeing as Marc has said that he is planning on there being about 5 skills
>levels per 4 year term, I've been considering doing the following with the
>skills:
>
>1. Use 4 year terms where the character gets 5 skills
>2. Random Term Assignments
>3. Have 4 Random Tables Categories for each career (something like)
> a. Service Life Table
> b. Assignment Skill Tables (varies by Term Assignment)
> c. Rank Skill Tables
> d. Branch Skill Tables
>4. Free choice of "Life pursuit" skill
...
>DM: +2 if E5+ or O1+
> +4 if E7+ or O4+
I think this is better than what I'd seen of T5. The tables there lacked
focus (specifically the lack of branch tables) so it was harder to envision
a particular type of character (eg an ex Navy Gunner, or a Heavy Weapons
Marine).
I'm not conviced by the need for the rank skill tables, adding a staff table
to the branch options would seem to suffice.
Personally, I like the +2/+4 DMs, however, would you consider giving
E5+ & E7+ a minus DM and extending the table in the other direction?
Not being familiar with the armed forces, I always wondered why the
char gen system had E10, when the commision system made it almost
impossible to be one and the bonus skills for an officer and officer
promotions made staying enlisted a great disadvantage.
Extending the table in both directions could give the nco ranks
a different feel.
Question to the list:
What is the role of the E7+ ?
Are they technical experts, leaders of small teams or what?
Should the more highly skilled people become officers?
Phil Kitching
- --
http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
"Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2041
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Subj: Traveller-digest V1999 #2042
Date: 3/10/00 4:41:36 AM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Friday, March 10 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2042
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Hebden Bridge Meet up (TML UK)
XML for Traveller Ships
Re: Hebden Bridge Meet up (TML UK)
Re: Question about Odd System Configurations
Re: warbots
Re: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000 - Don't blame me for the subject line
Re: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000 - Don't blame me for the subject line
Re: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000 - Don't blame me for the subject line
Re: What if . . .
Re: What if . . .
Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2020
Re: Traveller / Trade Wars 2002
Re: Traveller / Trade Wars 2002
Re: Re Warbots
Re: Tell us what you like about Traveller
Re: An interesting stat or Man, we getting old!
Re: TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 11:01:21 +0000
From: "kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk"
Subject: Re: Hebden Bridge Meet up (TML UK)
On 10 March 2000 00:35, SD Mooney [SMTP:dom@cybergoths.u-net.com]
wrote:
> At 18:09 -0500 9/3/00, Paul Campbell
wrote:
> >Where is Hebden Bridge? If it's not to far (200miles) from me I
might come.
>
> Err, within an hour and a half of Liverpool. There is a link to the
> tourist info from BITS http://www.bits.org.uk/ and go to Travelling
> page. It's somewhere near Leeds AFAIK.
>
> We will have ACQ. Assuming Andy remembers it.
>
> We will have all Rob Prior's material to demo too...
I'd been thinking about driving, but I'm just north of Edinburgh, and
I really don't think my car could cope with the journey. I'll look
into getting the train, it'll give me a chance to catch up on some
reading. ;)
Anyone else coming down from Scotland?
- --
Paul Campbell
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 07:56:15 -0400
From: Les_Howie@keane.com
Subject: XML for Traveller Ships
If anyone is seriously interested in working on an XML standard for Traveller
ships (or other traveller things) please contact me off list. I would like to
put the xml reading I have been doing to some use.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 12:10:52 GMT
From: "i Steve"
Subject: Re: Hebden Bridge Meet up (TML UK)
Hi folks,
I *know* when this idea was first floated I was one one the frothiest for
it,but due to circumstances unforeseen (won't bore you with the details), I
won't be able to attend...Hope you all have a great time, and be sure to
have a pint or to on my behalf.
Regards,
iSteve
isteve@outhere.f9.co.uk
isteve1967@hotmail.com
ICQ#54933683
Yoda DOS: (A)bort or (F)ail, there is no (R)etry....
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 22:34:34 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Question about Odd System Configurations
In mail you write:
> I was considering planetary systems for binary stars, and came up with a
> couple of strange combinations which might result in odd worlds; I'd
> like comments on their plausibility, and on what else might be odd about
> these worlds:
>
> 1) Worlds orbiting very close binaries: it's possible to have a pair of
> stars .1-.3 AU apart with a planetary system orbiting the center of mass,
> in which case you would have two suns in the sky, separated by up to around
> 20 degrees. Aside from looking odd, and possibly resulting in an additional
> weather cycle if the stars are of uneven brightness, would this have any
> interesting direct effects?
I'm not sure you can get an orbit that is both *stable*, and in the
"life zone".
> 2) Trojan Worlds: can a planet appear at L3 or L5 for a companion star?
> Not sure if the trojan points apply when the companion mass is a substantial
> fraction of the mass of the primary. Two suns, always separated by 60
> degrees, which could result in a fairly odd day/night cycle.
"Trojan" configurations are only stable if the mass of the primary is
more that 25(?) times that of the secondary, and the mass of the
tertiary is "negligible".
So, given that a 25:1 mass difference is *really* unlikely to be a pair
of stars, this situation isn't likely. Also, given the *really* brief
lifespans of stars of more than a few times the mass of the sun, you
won't get a *usable* planet.
> 3) Horseshoe worlds: there's a sort of orbit (whose name I don't recall)
> which is co-orbital with another body, but tends to gradually bounce between
> the two trojan points. What sort of period does that have?
No idea, but I don't think you can do that with a *planet*.
> 4) Worlds orbiting one star, but illuminated by the second: if you take
> an M0 star orbiting a G0 star at 1.6 AU, with a planetary companion at
> 0.4 AU, the planet is probably tide-locked to the M0 star, the planet is
> getting somewhat more heat from the G star than from the M star, and while
> it's a bit outside the outer limit of the life zone for either individual
> star, the total heat is enough to push it into the life zone. I suspect
> the back side would go through massive freeze/melt cycles (of about 120
> days), the front would be fairly consistently warm. Note that on the outer
> side, the sun would get larger and brighter as it approached noon, on the
> inner side it would get smaller and dimmer.
More likely would be something like the system Asimov once described.
He essentially transplanted Earth to the Alpha Centauri system. Alpha A
is pretty much like Sol. Alpha B is a bit smaller, and orbits at
something like 10-15 AU.
So he wound up with the normal solar system as far as Jupiter, with
Alpha B replacing Saturn, and Uranus orbiting Alpha B. Or something
like that.
So the second star isn't bright enough to affect *weather*, but it *is*
brighter than the full moon. Which means during about half the year,
nights aren't all that dark. You can read medium sized type, and even
(just) see colors.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 22:14:01 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: warbots
In mail you write:
> Given that facial recognition is now possible from low orbit,
Not bloody likely. Between diffraction limits on the optics and
atmospheric turbulence, you may be able to recognize that something
*is* a face. But you won't recognize *whose* face it is.
> Modern sensor tech is *very* good and only going to get better.
Actually, many forms of modern sensor tech are as good as they *can*
get. We've got EM sensors in several bands that react to individual
photons. Audio sensors are that good. Chemical sensors aren't very
close to sensing individual molecules yet. But we are working on it.
Since the strength of the signal and the strength of any "background
noise" are out of our control, that means that things *aren't* going to
get much better except for chemical sensors.
> In real-life at anything approaching these TLs you would also air
> drop millions of tiny, sticky, cheap networked AV cams (say things
> the size of a large rice grain [something we will likely have quite
> soon]) and send out lots of fly-sized minirobots with cameras and
> microphones (these are being built as we speak).
And what, exactly, are you using for *bandwidth*? And *power*? Low
power signals have low ranges. Having each unit relay for others within
range means you need even more bandwidth. And even if you don't give a
damn about interfering with other communications, you still have to be
able to handle all that data. Via a *broadcast* medium.
Let's get really silly and assume each of these units *only* requires a
bandwidth of 1 kbps. Times a *million*, and ignoring network overhead,
that means you need an overall bandwidth of 1 *billion* bps to keep
them from interfering with each other. And given the tiny size of these
things, you can't use frequencies with wavelengths of more than an mm
or so. Which further limits things.
> With that level of
> surveillance rebellion is *very* difficult. Sure, you can jam, but
> jamming an area would naturally be a crime and is easy to detect
> and localize.
Jamming can be *inherently* non-local.
> Wrt antennas and surge supressors on warbots, if the antennas
> are flat spirals on the robots upper surface they are going to be
> really hard to shoot off. The new cellphone antennas are
> essentially bits of circuit board inside the phone. Stick the
> antennas inside the armor (but outside the faraday cage protecting
> the rest of the robot from an EMP) and stick on a surge supressor
> and now the antenna is as hard to take out as the robot itself.
The problem is getting the surge suppressor to chop off higher power
inputs without cutting off actual signals.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 22:47:43 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000 - Don't blame me for the subject line
In mail you write:
> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>
>>>ob trav: However, this has got me thinking about creating a world
>>>with a democracy where the number of votes you have is
>>>determined by how much you earn. However, your earnings
>>>be taxable income. Welfare exists, but you lose your vote for the
>>> number of years that you are on welfare. Which means that in
>>>a twisted way some of the rich autocrats see advantage in
>>>having a generous welfare system to encourage less people to
>>>vote, hearby giving them a greater controlling vote......... this
>>>idea develops as I write it.... I'll get back to the list if it goes
>>>somewhere!
>
>>This gets *really* unbalanced, really fast.
>
> Agreed, I would expect it to lead to something not too different from
> slavery for those folks denied their vote.
>
>>On the other hand, tie the votes to the *taxes* you pay, and it gets
>>more interesting. Everybody gets one vote. Taxes are "flat rate" at,
>>say, 10%. You get an extra vote for every extra 1% of taxes you
>>pay.
>
>>This way you can swing an election a few times, but trying to keep
>>doing it will bankrupt you. But your extra tax contributions will help
>>keep taxes low!
>
> I'd go more like 2-5%/ extra vote, but I really like this idea. The rich
> get more power (just like everywhere else) but they directly pay for
> the privilege. Instead of merely paying politicians and lobbyists,
> they can also contribute directly to the common good.
Also, it would be rather more (painfully :-) obvious that you can
*delay*, but not really *prevent* anything the public *really* wants.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 22:49:40 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000 - Don't blame me for the subject line
In mail you write:
> On 8 Mar 00, at 21:33, Frank G. Pitt wrote:
>
>> They've just increased my tax to 39c in the dollar too.
>>
>> That's the problem with allowing the unemployed to vote, they'll
>> always vote for the party that promises to take from the rich and
>> give to the 'poor', and spend more on benefits for those that don't
>> produce.
>
> Yep. Let's have the last government who seemed to believe that it's
> quite OK to run the economy in such a way that unemployment couldn't
> drop below 6%, no matter how many of the dole bludgers actually tried
> to find work, and then starve them for their sins.
Now you know *why* the folks who set up the US did their best to avoid
direct democracy, and made things as hard as possible to change while
still allowing for "necessary" changes.
Alas, the idea that there are things that are wrong, even if the
majority says they are right is just about gone... :-(
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 22:53:54 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000 - Don't blame me for the subject line
In mail you write:
> On 8 Mar 00, at 13:34, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> In mail you write:
>
>> > Not to mention the social responsibilty all us working types have to
>> > those less fortunate than us. Unemployed people deserve quality of life,
>> > not just mere subsistance.
>>
>> I've come to the conclusion that in spite of all the talk about
>> switching to a "sevice based" economy, what's *really* going to have to
>> happen is the recognition that in a modern, industrialized socity with
>> *automation*, there often *won't* be enough jobs to go around. So we
>> either try for government "make work" projects (like the Depression era
>> CCC and other such things) or we need to remove the stigma from "welfare"
>> and quit pretending that it's for "losers".
>
> Back to Roman times :) It seems to a be little known fact, but full
> employment is a modern phenomena.
The trick is keeping the "mob" from voting for "bread & circuses".
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 00:00:01 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: What if . . .
In mail you write:
> At 13.11 -0800 03.08.00, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>At 23.36 -0500 03.07.00, Steve Daniels wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Jump duration was nearly instaneous?
>>>
>>> - Centralized government, adminstration more efficient, or
>>> "Hands on"? X-Boat travel would certainly be able to keep
>>> the Emperor up to date and allow him to react quicker.
>>>
>>> - Different assumptions of ship design?
>>>
>>> I've been thinking about designing a new TU. Maybe I've been
>>> reading too much Peter Hamilton, but I don't see why jump
>>> travel should always take a week. And rather than get into
>>> a discussion about why it should or shouldn't take that long,
>>> I prefer to ask simply, what if it was instanteous?
>>
>>You'd have a totally different game. Speed of communication (via
>>Xboats) would be such that only the sheer *amount* of information would
>>impede strong central control. And governments have always been good at
>>ignoring "irrelevant" information.
>>
>>It'd change the trading picture beyond recognition as well.
>
> Sort of spin-off idea:
> Well what if it still took nearly a week to get to a safe Jump Point?
>
> This would mean week-long battles while running out to the point. No
> sleeping, or wasting time in Jump space when an encounter could
> happen at any time.
>
> Speed of communication would still be the same. Although effected
> somewhat by the time to travel to the jump point.
Nope. Because you could be receiving messages right up to jump, and
sending them as soon as you exit jump. The speed of light lag wouldn't
be more than a few hours.
So total com lag might be as much as 10 hours (assuming you jump from 5
light hours out, which is out past Pluto)
That's a *big* difference.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 00:03:55 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: What if . . .
In mail you write:
> scott brandsgaard wrote:
>
>> At 13.11 -0800 03.08.00, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> >At 23.36 -0500 03.07.00, Steve Daniels wrote:
>
>> >> Jump duration was nearly instaneous?
>>
>> Sort of spin-off idea:
>> Well what if it still took nearly a week to get to a safe Jump Point?
>
> I was thinking that time to safe jumping distance would be significant,
> not a week, but some amount of time. Varying of course by speed
> of the ship. And speed may well be reduced by the densitiy of
> 'dust'., etc.
As noted elsewhere, you can still receive messages right up until you
jump, which *greatly* reducs comm-lag if jumps are zero-time.
> An interesting concept in Hamilton's recent book series was
> that the velocity of the arm of the galaxy you're in must be
> taken into account. Because the arms are spinning around
> the center of the galaxy, they have a velocity, which varies
> the distance from the radius.
Sure, but that velocity varies only over *large* distances. Hundreds of
parsecs.
Keep in mind that the radius of rotation is something like 5-10k
parsecs, and the rotation rate is measured in 10s of millions of years.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 00:19:54 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
In mail you write:
> My learned and obviously well-read friend Leonard Erickson shared >>>
>
>> Try to find the collected works of Jonathon Swift
>> (the guy who wrote gulliver's Travels). One of his
>> other stories shows that folks have worried about
>> this for a long time ... "The Struldbrugs".
>
> That is an absolutely fascinating chapter. An interesting take/twist on the
> matter, although I will not spoil it any more for the rest of you. For
> those of you interested, I found it on the web at
> http://www.litrix.com/gulliver/gulli027.htm
> Tony
> (Proving once again that there are no new heresies, only old ones with new
> names)
And just wait until they find out just what a "yahoo" *is*! I bet the
K'kree *love* that part of the book. :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 00:23:23 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2020
In mail you write:
> I'd actually turn that the other way round - they have had a look at their
> defense responsibilities, and have decided that the best way to fit them is
> to build a force of specialists.
>
> The reason they can do this is, like most worlds in the 3I, they dont
> actually need a defense force, because no one can attack them (in the case
> of NZ, it's because of ocean. In the case of most 3I worlds, it's because of
> a couple of sectors worth of the IN being between them and an enemy).
>
> What they therefore build is a glorified coastguard and search and recue
> force, plus a "political intervention" force - UN peacekeepers in the case
> of NZ, hard currency earning mercs in the case of a world in the TU.
>
> Given how little it costs to ship troops if you do it right, I could
> actually imagine a world specialising in something like EW - "Yeah, I did a
> term with the 312th EW, and a term with the 3rd Rifles. Uhuh, we had 357
> Independant EW Companies, three squadrons of Grav Tankettes and a dozen
> Rifle Companies".
One rather interesting possibility is if you have Imperial rules of war
for situations where balkanized worlds aren't allowed to hire mercs for
"on world" fights that are in excess of world TL.
On good reason for this is so that the locals have the capability of
doing their own "cleanup" after the war.
This makes it possible to have merc units that (like in Norton's "Star
Guard" and Drake's "Ranks of Bronze") specialize in "archaic" forms of
warfare.
Picture getting a transport contract to haul a "Roman Legion" or some
"Swiss Pikemen" to their new contract. :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 00:30:19 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller / Trade Wars 2002
In mail you write:
> Peter Miller wrote:
>>
>> What about a Traveller ala Trade Wars 2002 (a BBS game for those not in the
>> know); updated of course; incorporating Traveller rules for chargen,
>> trading, etc. and the background. Ability to form alliances, etc. But,
>> the same idea, whereby all action takes place in space, and in limited ways
>> on planets and starports.
>
> Excellent idea.
>
> Starports could sell trader ships, and some might even have
> an architect for hire. You'd look for crewmen at the bar.
>
> Why, your trader could turn rogue and see just how hard it
> is to be a pirate... firsthand... hmmmm....
>
> Starcharts would be real Traveller sectors, so you can weave
> your plots offline.
You can have 3-d space, which can be done by adding more worlds to a
sector, for folks to flesh out.
> Hey! You get one turn per day: once you've jumped, your
> turn is over. Wow, pretty slow game... unless you're an
> Imperial Navy Squadron commander and are moving into
> position on the Zhodani border...
Actually, given the possibility of player interaction, and (if someone
writes it) "realtime" space combat between ships, you could do things
at different speeds.
> It's still a nontrivial task to write; however, it's very
> do-able... hmmmm! And it can be in Java. Anyone else
> really like this idea?
It's a start. But my concept grew out of an idea back around 1974,
involving "in system" spaceflight and combat in "realtime". Basicly,
you set the course, and if you are going to get close to another ship
or installation, you and they get notified at the right time, and (if
you wish) arrange a mutually convenient time to "play out" the fight or
other interaction.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 00:36:10 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller / Trade Wars 2002
In mail you write:
>>Rob Eaglestone:
>>> Peter Miller: [Traveller ala TW2002]
>
>>
>>Excellent idea.
>>
>>Starports could sell trader ships, and some might even have
>>an architect for hire. You'd look for crewmen at the bar.
>
> Starports E2:Frontier style...
>
>>Why, your trader could turn rogue and see just how hard it
>>is to be a pirate... firsthand... hmmmm....
>
> Winning by violence is easy. Winning peacefully is hard. ;)
>
>>Starcharts would be real Traveller sectors, so you can weave
>>your plots offline.
>
> Unlike in TW2002, UWP's and multiple planetoids per system might be an idea,
> too. Unless the concept is a trading game...
Add exploration.
>>Hey! You get one turn per day: once you've jumped, your
>>turn is over. Wow, pretty slow game... unless you're an
>>Imperial Navy Squadron commander and are moving into
>>position on the Zhodani border...
>>
>>It's still a nontrivial task to write; however, it's very
>>do-able... hmmmm! And it can be in Java. Anyone else
>>really like this idea?
>
> I don't think a Java game would be much comforting. Rather downloadable
> client/server programs. Java is OK for games, but it has the potential for
> big-time suckability when it comes to multiplayer. Then again, it all
> depends on layout.
>
> My concept :P
> Get David Braben and make him construct Multiplayer Elite: The 3rd Imperium.
> I want the moon on a stick. :]
There was a game on the Atari 520 that was a single player version of
this sort of thing. It'd be another place to "borrow" ideas from.
> The MegaTraveller comp game is a nice concept to work from as well.
> Inspirational flashes.... don't shoot me.
Well, my personal preference, being into star systems, planets, and
spaceflight stuff, would be to do something like create a MUSH where
the "rooms" are systems. With some built-in limits on what can go
where.
As a starter, we could try creating a "map" of known space, with the
ability to navigate it. Sort of like Galactic, but with a shared
database. This would be useful for Refs, even without an online game.
The players jump someplace and you just consult the data on the
surrounding systems you grabbed off the web after the last game.
Add jump and in-system navigational support. "We're *here*, and we want
to go *there*" and the program offers a series of jumps or displays
cheapest and fastest orbits, along with transit times and fuel usages.
Then patch in the combat modules for space, and the
explore/trade/carouse/fight modules for on the ground.
Just keep each level "flexible" enough that you can do things like
patch in 3-d space without screwing up the "on planet" stuff, and so
that the world/system info doesn't care if it's in a 2-d or 3-d
universe.
The nice part about this sort of modular approach is that the various
"modules" and "levels" are either useful info resources or playable
games by themselves. Which makes them *testable* by themselves.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 02:15:26 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re Warbots
In mail you write:
> Easy way to isolate the antenna: a simple optical conversion link. Run it
> through the Faraday cage. Sure, you blow the antenna (or maybe it's tube
> based... hehehehe), but you still have the rest of the thing shielded.
Alas, that "simple optical conversion link" consists of a *radio
receiver* and an optical transmitter, both of which constitute
electronics *outside* the shielding...
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 02:20:38 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Tell us what you like about Traveller
In mail you write:
>>From: "Chris Seamans"
>>Subject: Re: Tell us what you like about Traveller ( was: TOP 4 REASONS...
> ...
>>The quaint technology of the Traveller universe may make it easy to
>>concentrate on roleplaying, although I'm not sure I agree entirely. However,
>>the sheer complexity and depth of the official Traveller universe both tend
>>to erase that advantage. In every Traveller game I've ever run I've had to
>>give out prodigious handouts to bring people up to speed on the official
>>Traveller universe.
>
> That too, is an option, albeit one that I find a problem as well. Given
> that my potential player mix includes all sorts of CJ Cherryh ("Downbelow
> Station" et al.) fans, I'd very likely choose a nice small area and keep
> the info manageable. Now I just need to find the time to do it :(
>
> FWIW, the SJG G:T rulebook makes a great players handbook for background
> info.
Heck, if I'd had the computer power I have *now* back when I was in a
gaming group, I'd have just set up a "Library" database (probably some
sort of Hypercard stack) on one of the old Compact Macs I've got
kicking around.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 02:32:06 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: An interesting stat or Man, we getting old!
In mail you write:
> To someone who did mind having younger gamers...well here are the stats so
> far:
> The recent WotC survey left an interesting gap in their age demographics.
> So, please answer the following question
> below.
>
> "a: I'm over 35 years old " has 8% of the vote
> "b: I'm 25-35 years old " has 54% of the vote
> "c: I'm 19-24 years old " has 29% of the vote
> "d: I'm 16-18 years old " has 6% of the vote
> "e: I'm 12-15 years old " has 1% of the vote
> "f: I'm under 12 years old " has 0% of the vote
Now wait just a doggone minute: 54%+6%=60%
29%+1%=30%
8%
----------
98%
Where's the other 2%? (best guess is that the display routine
*truncates* instead of rounding)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 04:39:23 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
- --- "Douglas E. Berry"
wrote:
> At 12:33 PM 3/9/2000 -0800, you wrote:
> >Hey guys, I have loved Traveller for years and it
> >products were many and awesome, BUT it was too
> >unweildy. A game called Starfire faced the same
> >problem, and one of the players bought the system
> and
> >streamlined it! It now is one of th best space
> games
> >anywhere. It would Traveller good if somwone would
> do
> >the same for this classic. Troy
>
> Anybody notice that we've been getting quite a
> number of new faces, with
> similar posting styles, all saying the same basic
> thing?
As I said,the best Conspiracies are the trivial
ones.BOY,you should charge a fee for your
(involuntary) entertaining posts!
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2042
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Traveller-digest Friday, March 10 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2043
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Best RPG
Re: now this is actually getting humorous...
Re: Re Return of Cliff?
Re: Re Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space
RE: One More Time: What do you want in T5?
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
RE: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000 - Don't blame me for the sub ject line
Re: Re Return of Cliff?
Drakarans- canonical?
Yaskodray
Re: Re Return of Cliff?
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Microrockets
Re: Re Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space
To Doug Berry
Bujold's political systems
Re: Re Return of Cliff?
Yanks in SPAAAAAAAACCCCCEEEEEE!
Mega-voting
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 07:41:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Houghton
Subject: Re: Best RPG
Howdy!
> 1601 votes now (12.9%). Myth is less than 50 votes behind.
>
1663 - 1567 - 752 (Warhammer obviously has *NO* staying power :))!
yours,
Michael
- --
Michael and MJ Houghton | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@radix.net | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
| http://www.radix.net/~herveus/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 04:46:10 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: now this is actually getting humorous...
> >It's always a good sign when people have to make
> >tingds up to have an answer.
> >Exspecially when they call themselves "we"......
> >Thanks for amusing me...even if it's unintentional.
>
> Denial
Actually ,it's just using irony even if it isn't
understood.
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 08:17:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Houghton
Subject: Re: Re Return of Cliff?
Howdy!
William wrote:
> >>The characters are appoached by a gentleman in an expensive suit. He offers
> >>them Cr 1500 each plus expenses to market a new version of Traveller.
> >>
> >>All is as presented, and the new version really exists.
> >>Roll 1D to determine the outcome:
> >>
> [snip]
> >>6. Clif reappears. Subsequent events are up to the referee.
>
> Hmmm. I saw this then the following:
>
> >From: john hamilton
> >Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
> >
> >>
> >> My dear sir, you are the *only* person who claims
> >> that you are part of a
> >> conspiracy! We just consider you to be rude.
> >
> >It's always a good sign when people have to make
> >tingds up to have an answer.
> >Exspecially when they call themselves "we"......
> >Thanks for amusing me...even if it's unintentional.
> >
>
> Don't you just hate it when Cliff get's reincarnated?
>
M. Hamilton is, so far, a pale imitation of Clif. He might even be
educable (although the evidence so far is discouraging). At least
he is entertaining (the way one watches NASCAR to see the cars
depart controlled flight).
yours,
Michael
- --
Michael and MJ Houghton | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@radix.net | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
| http://www.radix.net/~herveus/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 08:21:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Houghton
Subject: Re: Re Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space
Howdy!
Doug wrote:
> the north east, except in the South where the term is "Damnyankee"
Like the time an airplane with the tail number N5000Y made the following
radio call (more or less):
Pilot: "5000 Yankee, 20 mile north of Richmond"
Controller: "Oh jesus, not again"
- --
Michael and MJ Houghton | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@radix.net | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
| http://www.radix.net/~herveus/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 13:14:51 +0000
From: Phil Kitching
Subject: RE: One More Time: What do you want in T5?
"Garcia, Abel" wrote:
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Phil Kitching
>> "Chris Seamans" wrote:
>> From: Rob Eaglestone
>> IV: Vehicles & Starships
>> A simple High Guard style creation system which would be backed up by a
>> supplement similar to TNE's Fire, Fusion and Steel.
>
>leave the design system to FF&S3,FF&S3 should be three layered:
> description layer - the notes in FF&S on why things work are great.
> component layer - pregenerated components for High Guard style
>design.
> (FF&S only had a single laser turret as a worked
>design,
> hardly generous)
> detail layer - FF&S3 in all its equations, for building your own
>modules.
>Phil,
>Perhaps your "Component Layer" FF&S3 book is Volume 1 and your "Description
>Layer" & "Detail Layer" is Volume 2. But don't forget Volume 3 in you FF&S3
>trilogy: STRIKER3! What made FF&S0 great was Frank Chadwick's original
>Role-playing miniatures game -STRIKER1; the same goes with FF&S1 and
>STRIKER2. Now that his "COMMAND DECISION" miniature rules system has gone
>through as many updates as Traveller has -T5 cannot forget its Warmongering
>Gearhead party! I'm sure a thoroughly playtested STRIKER3 could be made
>available.
Agreed.
I just took it as read that there had to be a way to compare and contrast
competing design solutions from the rival bureaux.
Phil Kitching
- --
http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
"Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 05:25:50 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
- --- Chris Seamans wrote:
> From: James W. Lindsay
>
>
> > > It's always a good sign when people have to make
> > > tingds up to have an answer.
> >
> > Make things up? Like saying that you're "an Agent
> of T$R"?
>
> While I don't want to get my feet too wet in this
> here pool, to be fair I
> think it was pretty obvious that his "agent of T$R"
> comment was a sarcastic
> one.
It a sign from heaven that there are actually people
on this list who understand irony and don't take silly
remarks for real.I would never believed that something
like T$R secret agents could be taken for real.Reminds
me of the guy who posted a warning to a Star Trek site
that publishing deckplans could endanger the safety of
the free world.
How did Bill Shatner put it at SNL?
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 14:28:54 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
At 22:49 09.03.00 -0800, James W. Lindsay wrote:
>> >> >Correction: it's worlds with starports *with stuff to trade*.
Profit can
>> >> >be made every step of the way along a jump-1 main, while the same is
>> >> >impossible jumping through three intervening empty space hexes.
>> >>
>> >> Agreed on both. Though I'd say that (assuming something which is not
true
>> >> for the ZS, that is, you want to build your empire by spreading your own
>> >> population among the stars) it's still more economic to bring people
to an
>> >> off-main world and bring them the first few production goods they need
>> >> rather than to ship them along a "main world" some one or even two years
>> away.
>> >
>> >Again, nobody is suggesting that production goods would be transported
over
>> >a distance of so many parsecs (ie: a year or two away). It took 300 years
>> >for the Ziru Sirka to expand to 10
Subj: Traveller-digest V1999 #2044
Date: 3/10/00 10:03:52 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)
Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
Reply-to: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
To: traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
Traveller-digest Friday, March 10 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2044
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Derogatory Terms (was re: Yanks in SPAAAAAAAACCCCCEEEEEE!)
Canon and chargen
Canon and Chargen
Re: Canon and chargen
Re: Re Return of Cliff?
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Traveller dead? - a clarification
Re: TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Traveller Went Down?
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
If I Had A P*irate
Re: TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Dragon...
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Re Return of Cliff?
Re: Question about Odd System Configurations
RE: JTAS Editorial: "You Think We Make this Stuff Up?"
Re: Re Return of Cliff?
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Drakarans- canonical?
RE: JTAS Editorial: "You Think We Make this Stuff Up?"
Re: Re Return of Cliff?
=?iso-8859-1?Q?It=B4s_always_Aslan_and_Vargr_:-(?=
streamline TRAVELLER ??
Re: 76 Editions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 10:21:41 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: Derogatory Terms (was re: Yanks in SPAAAAAAAACCCCCEEEEEE!)
Daryl wrote:
>What about Seppo's? Its crude , but maybe other people have simmilar
>names. (rhyming slang : Septic Tank - Yanks)
>
>Commonnly used when the Aussies are p*ssed at the Americans.
I recall a player getting angry (upset?) at me during a Shadowrun game
I was GMing.
After an NPC insulted and threatened an innocent victim, the player
looked down his nose and "thanked" me for exposing him to a deragatory
term for people from India that he'd never heard before.
He was acting like I was some kind of purveyor of bigotry. I thought that
since the NPC bigot was protrayed as a barbaric villain, this attitude was
uncalled for.
Then I think, perhaps he was put off by a semi-realistic depiction of
a hate crime in progress - much as another player might be put off
if I described combat in body-parts-and-new-recruit-screaming-for-mother
terms instead of cinematic ones.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 10:30:21 -0500
From: "Kenn J. Capman"
Subject: Canon and chargen
There have been some interesting posts regarding the balance or imbalance
of using chargen in book 2 vs. books 4, 5, 6 & 7.
It is possible to create a character in books 4,5,6 & 7 that violates the
canon rule of no more skills or levels of skills than the sum of
Intelligence and Education.
How have other rectified this in their campaigns.
This one has always bothered me.
Kenn
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 10:35:07 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: Canon and Chargen
Kenn J. Capman wrote:
>It is possible to create a character in books 4,5,6 & 7 that violates the
>canon rule of no more skills or levels of skills than the sum of
>Intelligence and Education.
>How have other rectified this in their campaigns.
>This one has always bothered me.
We seldom had it come up, when it did we just gave the player
a +1 Edu instead of the skill rolled. If Edu was already F(15), we
probably would have given a +1 Int instead. If both were at F(15),
and the character had 30 skills and was looking for more, we'd probably
show the munchkin the door.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 08:51:07 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz
Subject: Re: Canon and chargen
"Kenn J. Capman" wrote:
>
> It is possible to create a character in books 4,5,6 & 7 that violates the
> canon rule of no more skills or levels of skills than the sum of
> Intelligence and Education.
> How have other rectified this in their campaigns.
I play MT rules, so bear that in mind.
If someone is allowed N skills, where N is the sum of Int and Edu, and the
N+1 skill comes along (either in CharGen or later, because the character is
attempting to improve the character using ATs), I require the player to
choose a skill that gets dropped to one level.
For example, suppose the character looks like this:
Joe College 777777
Pilot-3 Computer-1 Engineering-0
Assume that the character has enough skills that he's at the maximum
allowed: 14 skill levels. The player rolls for a new skill, and makes the
roll.
If the new skill is Forgery, then the player can choose to not take that
skill, or to take a level 0 in that skill (so that it doesn't count against
the maximum) or to drop one of his existing skills down one level.
The player chooses to drop Computer to Computer-0. The rationale is that
the character hasn't touched a computer in so long, his abilities are now
obsolete, and he's forgotten a lot of it (kind of like my abilities in
house-cleaning). However, he keeps it at zero, because he's still better
than a person who's never seen a computer.
The player could have chosen to lower his Pilot skill, implying that he
hasn't been behind the wheel of a starship in a while, but he still
remembers most of his training.
The player could not, naturally, choose to drop the Engineering skill,
since it doesn't count toward the total.
Finally, the player could choose to not take the Forgery skill at all.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 07:11:15
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Re Return of Cliff?
At 05:39 AM 3/10/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>Can there be any greater proof that your right when
^^^^
"you are" or "you're"
>your opponent has to resort to obscure references and
>cheap name calling?
Pot, meet kettle.
>Yeah, in a pathethic sense,hard core fans are good and
>cheap entertaining.
"entertainment."
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 07:15:38
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
At 11:48 PM 3/9/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>From: James W. Lindsay
>While I don't want to get my feet too wet in this here pool, to be fair I
>think it was pretty obvious that his "agent of T$R" comment was a sarcastic
>one.
Yes, but then he turned around and claimed that we were accusssing him of
being a part of plot.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 07:20:05
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
At 02:44 AM 3/10/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>> You are a troll, John. You send a controversial post (with an all
>> CAPITALS subject line), whose topic anyone would know to be a
>> sensitive one.
>
>Oh, come on James. Stirring up a hornet's nest every once in awhile isn't
>really a bad thing. Controversy is not bad, and holy cows should be sniped
>every once in awhile.
the difference is that the TML regulars don't immediately take on the air
of contemptuous superiority and the insulting air that Mr. Hamilton did.
Y'all know me. I have arguably one of the hottest tempers on this list. If
you've seen me on Usenet, you just how bad I can get. But When it comes to
the TML I at least try to control myself until I get pushed hard. Mr.
Hamilton immediately took reasoned responses and started insulting us. I
don't have to put up with that.
- --
Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"I am the penguin bold! We sailed the sea, to tringalee,
in search of spanish gold" - The Magic Pudding - Norman Lindsay
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 07:22:24
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Traveller dead? - a clarification
At 11:29 PM 3/9/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>From: Douglas E. Berry
>> Which is one of the things that killed TSR. Dozens of different
>> settings for ADnD that flopped, while the Forgotten Realms keep
>> thriving.
>
>A gross oversimplification. TSR during the late 80s and early 90s is a
>perfect model for what *not* to do when you're running a business. There was
>an astonishing amount of infighting within the company, which is never a
>good thing. TSR during that period also focused on getting young
>roleplayers, but didn't try to keep them.
I did say one of the things.. I agree that TSR was a prime example of how
not to run a company. It became obvious that many of the AD&D products were
releases simply to keep cash coming in quickly.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 07:24:38
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
At 04:39 AM 3/10/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>As I said,the best Conspiracies are the trivial
>ones.BOY,you should charge a fee for your
>(involuntary) entertaining posts!
Fine, that will be $50.00.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 07:25:30
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Traveller Went Down?
At 08:29 PM 3/9/2000 PST, you wrote:
>> The armor piercing one.
>
>Still ambiguous. Consider pengiuns fed *hot* Thai food for example....
That would be analogus to a plasma attack, with impact and explosive damage.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 08:28:43 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
- --- "Douglas E. Berry"
wrote:
> At 02:44 AM 3/10/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>
> the difference is that the TML regulars don't
> immediately take on the air
> of contemptuous superiority
Like the "we"
and the insulting air
> that Mr. Hamilton did.
But When it I
> don't have to put up with that.
Deal with it.
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 11:25:54 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: If I Had A P*irate
With apologies to quite a few folk singers, and anyone who is tired
of the various Sunbeard debates on the TML...
If I Had A Pirate
(To the tune of, "If I Had A Hammer", sung by the Mommas and the
Poppas and others)
If I rolled a character,
I'd have him be a Pirate,
A strong, smart Pirate,
Yes that's my pla-an,
He'd make all the right rolls,
He'd make Pirate Lee-eader,
And he'd retire,
He'd muster out,
And get himself a starship...
Woah-oh-ih-ohhh,
That's my pla-a-a-an.
Yeah, ye-ah yeah...
If I had a Corsair,
I'd raid them in the Marches,
I'd raid them in the Sword Worlds,
Anywhere I can!!
We'd board Free Traders,
We'd board Sub Merchants,
And we'd make TONS of credits,
And never lose a battle...
Oh-yeah-ih-yeah, thats my plan, woah-oh-oh,
Yeah, yeah, yeah
Well I've got a Pirate,
And I've got a Cor-sair,
And I've got a Game, to play
Traveller, my frie-end!
Hey, Pirates are Canon,
They've got official - CharGen!
So we're gonna have FUN, together,
Until we meet some warships,
And then we'll roll, them up again, enn enn...
Woah, woa-oh-ho...
Yea
(fade)
Copyright 2000 Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 08:30:02 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
- --- "Douglas E. Berry"
wrote:
> At 04:39 AM 3/10/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>
> >As I said,the best Conspiracies are the trivial
> >ones.BOY,you should charge a fee for your
> >(involuntary) entertaining posts!
>
> Fine, that will be $50.00.
Overpriced.Lets dig out the Merchant skills to haggle.
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 10:45:13 -0600
From: Stormhound
Subject: Re: Dragon...
Well, I won't recount my tale here...what there is of it, folks can find
at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/rpg.htm
I will say that except for my first, I usually found out about RPGs by
finding them on the store shelf. Come to think of it, that's still my usual
method. (g)
- --
Stormhound
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 08:51:27 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
> Yes, but then he turned around and claimed that we
> were accusssing him of
> being a part of plot.
Which is nonsense,boy.
As I said,the ability to understand irony is not given
to anybody.
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 08:53:13 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: Re Return of Cliff?
- --- "Douglas E. Berry"
wrote:
> At 05:39 AM 3/10/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>
> >Can there be any greater proof that your right when
> ^^^^
> "you are" or "you're"
>
> >your opponent has to resort to obscure references
> and
> >cheap name calling?
>
> Pot, meet kettle.
>
> >Yeah, in a pathethic sense,hard core fans are good
> and
> >cheap entertaining.
>
> "entertainment."
...or resort to even cheaper spellchecking.As I
said,seems that I was right,boy.
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 09:12:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: Question about Odd System Configurations
Leonard Erickson writes:
> > 1) Worlds orbiting very close binaries: it's possible to have a pair of
> > stars .1-.3 AU apart with a planetary system orbiting the center of mass,
> > in which case you would have two suns in the sky, separated by up to
> > around 20 degrees. Aside from looking odd, and possibly resulting in an
> > additional weather cycle if the stars are of uneven brightness, would this
> > have any interesting direct effects?
>
> I'm not sure you can get an orbit that is both *stable*, and in the
> "life zone".
That's debatable. You definately can't get a stable orbit within 3-5 x the
orbit of the companion stars, but a pair of stars at .1 AU might permit a
stable orbit at 1 AU (I suspect this would be quite rare).
> > 3) Horseshoe worlds: there's a sort of orbit (whose name I don't recall)
> > which is co-orbital with another body, but tends to gradually bounce
> > between the two trojan points. What sort of period does that have?
>
> No idea, but I don't think you can do that with a *planet*.
You can do it with a planetoid (some such are known to exist), but I think
its subject to the same general limits as a trojan world.
>
> > 4) Worlds orbiting one star, but illuminated by the second: if you take
> > an M0 star orbiting a G0 star at 1.6 AU, with a planetary companion at
> > 0.4 AU, the planet is probably tide-locked to the M0 star, the planet is
> > getting somewhat more heat from the G star than from the M star, and
> > while it's a bit outside the outer limit of the life zone for either
> > individual star, the total heat is enough to push it into the life zone.
> > I suspect the back side would go through massive freeze/melt cycles (of
> > about 120 days), the front would be fairly consistently warm. Note that
> > on the outer side, the sun would get larger and brighter as it approached
> > noon, on the inner side it would get smaller and dimmer.
>
> More likely would be something like the system Asimov once described.
> He essentially transplanted Earth to the Alpha Centauri system. Alpha A
> is pretty much like Sol. Alpha B is a bit smaller, and orbits at
> something like 10-15 AU.
I wasn't dealing with 'likely' configurations. Just ones which do not appear
to be actually impossible.
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 12:18:10 -0500
From: "Garcia, Abel"
Subject: RE: JTAS Editorial: "You Think We Make this Stuff Up?"
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Zeitlin
I just read the abovenamed article, and found it interesting -
not because of the info on tokaj, but because of the way this
information is found, noted, and brought in at an appropriate
time. I'm starting to do this now for my future material for
Freelance Traveller (and I recommend - but don't demand - that
anyone who wants to write for FT do the same); I'm building up a
tidy little file of Good Stuff.
Jeff,
I just returned to the list, for us newbies: what is _FREELANCE_TRAVELLER_?
Is that an online magazine that you publish?
Abel
(37 y.o. grognard who has been playing T since '79; I own most every T item
except G:T, but I ref TNE exclusively.)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 09:16:17
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Re Return of Cliff?
At 08:53 AM 3/10/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>...or resort to even cheaper spellchecking.As I
>said,seems that I was right,boy.
Please do not call me boy. That is extremely insulting. I have called you
names, but I find it amusing that you take this air of superiority and yet
be unable to properly format your posts of even check the spelling.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 09:17:33
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
At 08:28 AM 3/10/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>Like the "we"
You are ignoring the several people that have said that they agree wioth me.
>Deal with it.
No. Either cease to BS, or leave.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 10:25:54 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Drakarans- canonical?
Ingo Heinscher wrote:
>
> Hi!
>
> In GT: Alien Races 1, there is new minor race with their own star empire,
> the Drakarans. They "invented" jump drive at TL 10 (12/C in Traveller TL),
> when a Vargr vessel misjumped in their system. After a (victorious) war
> against one of those Vargr states near their border, they seem to be quite
> potent an empire (thoug a pocket class one, of course).
>
> Almost the same race was introduced, as many of you might remember, in
> Space Master: Aliens and Artifacts, which was written by the same author
> (David L. Pulver) for ICE a few years earlier.
>
> Well, personnally I like those aliens, though I have chosen a sector too
> far away from their side of Charted Space to actually use them more than
> once in my campaign.
>
> BUT: Are they canonical(or better: Do you think they are)? What do you do
> IYTU's? Do you simply ignore them?
>
Are they appearing in an official, licenced Traveller supplement?
Guess that settles the 'canon' issue ;-)
Personally, I do like 'em, too, particularly the Clotho. The minor
aliens in AR1 are nice, different from others in canon, and I don't
particularly care if they were published before, for a different game
system.
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 18:30:24 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: RE: JTAS Editorial: "You Think We Make this Stuff Up?"
At 12:18 10.03.00 -0500, you wrote:
>Jeff,
>I just returned to the list, for us newbies: what is _FREELANCE_TRAVELLER_?
>Is that an online magazine that you publish?
>Abel
>(37 y.o. grognard who has been playing T since '79; I own most every T item
>except G:T, but I ref TNE exclusively.)
Freelance Traveller is an e-zine, indeed. (I like it very much, bbut make
your own judgement:
http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/
And don't forget to look at the Traveller domain itself:
http://www.downport.com
And about GT: You are ignoring (?) a lot of damn good stuff.
CU
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 17:20:43 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: Re Return of Cliff?
At 10:20 -0500 10/3/00, john hamilton wrote:
> > Obscure? Maybe to you, but not to most.
>
>Well,resorting to "secret knowledge"?
Clif isn't secret knowledge, not if you've been on the TML a year or
so. Clif was a really hot topic end Feb 99. I thought you'd been here
a year?
Leroy was the guy who claimed secret knowledge of the initimate
thoughts of all past and present GDW staff.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 00:55:36 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?It=B4s_always_Aslan_and_Vargr_:-(?=
>T4's Alien Book 1 (Aslan, Vargr and Graytch) - was written by CORE and
>submitted to IG when MM pulled the licence.
Why is it always Aslan and Vargr, never Droyne and K´kree first...
When MT died (oops, got discontinued) We didn´t get K´kree, Droyne, Zho´s
and Hivers. Of these the one I wanted to see most was Zho and Droyne.
In TNE we only got Hivers and Idiots.
GT at least tried and gave us Zho´s and K´kree together with Aslan and
Vargr. BTW: I always felt that the Zho´s section of the GT Alien book had
less new information than i hoped it would. There was no new stuff on the
Zhodani Core Expeditions, something i had been looking forward to a long
time. The DGP book promised more back when it was announced.
Still no Droyne in GT, so far...
When T5 sees the light of day, i bet we´ll first get an Aslan and Vargr
sourcebook. (After we get two shipbuilding books, three equipment lists,
etc....)
Soon we´ll be able to build libraries of only Aslan and Vargr books.
CT-DGP-(T4-unpublished)-GT-T5?
Why always redo the ones everybody already has? Why not delve into the
unknown before republishing old facts.
Still, i am glad SOMETHING is still being published. I only wished the NEW
stuff would come out sooner. I´d also like to see more background, instead
of more rules in the GT books.
I know that this has always been the curse of Traveller (been with it for
too long to know better), but i can´t help but wish this would change.
At least, a new background book is in the works. I really am looking
forward to GT:Rim, but i would have wished for a different sector, like
Dlan, Daibai, Vland or Antares.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 01:04:13 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: streamline TRAVELLER ??
At 21:33 09.03.00, you wrote:
>Hey guys, I have loved Traveller for years and it
>products were many and awesome, BUT it was too
>unweildy. A game called Starfire faced the same
>problem, and one of the players bought the system and
>streamlined it! It now is one of th best space games
>anywhere. It would Traveller good if somwone would do
>the same for this classic. Troy
Someone promised to do that for part of the Traveller Material.
His name is Roger *spit* Sanger, and so far, all he has done so far is to
prevent anybody else from using the excellent material which he now holds
to be used ever again.
I won´t even entertain the thought of something similar happening to the
rest of Traveller as well. Traveller is better off in the hands of MM,
although i wished, he´d publish something more often, or think less about a
new rule system and more about STUFF. Especially Traveller already has
enough rules-systems.
IMHO, the Traveller rules have reached a point, where they have achieved
total adapability. Playing Traveller today is taking what you like from
every system and creating your own rules set from that, like a kit, or a
*spit* Clan Mech. In fact, Traveller is a bit like LEGO. YOU decide on
which rules to use. That which makes Traveller, namely the rich background,
remains.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 01:16:24 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Re: 76 Editions
At 08:35 10.03.00, you wrote:
> >From: "MJ Dougherty"
>...
> >1. The title contains a colon*. The TML explodes into flames.
>...
> >*Worlds in Darkness: Traveller
>
> I'm still waiting for WereBoar: The Aporkalypse
Deceased: The Rotting
is one of my favorites ;-)
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2044
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Traveller-digest Friday, March 10 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2045
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Chargen (long)
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Canon and Chargen
Re: Tell us what you like about Traveller ( was: TOP 4 REASONS WHYTRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
Re: warbots
New Zealand air force, Imperium attack craft, & Meritocracies
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2038
re: marches map in the works
Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
RE: Roll-playing extreme violence
Re: Recursive Bays
The Role of the E-7+
re: The Yanks are Coming
Life at pH 0.05....
Re: Drakarans- canonical?
Is it the background, or is it the rules?(was:Re: streamline TRAVELLER ??)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 12:05:20 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch
Subject: Re: Chargen (long)
Phil Kitching wrote:
> Eris Reddoch wrote:
>
> >Seeing as Marc has said that he is planning on there being about 5 skills
> >levels per 4 year term, I've been considering doing the following with the
> >skills:
> >
> >1. Use 4 year terms where the character gets 5 skills
> >2. Random Term Assignments
> >3. Have 4 Random Tables Categories for each career (something like)
> > a. Service Life Table
> > b. Assignment Skill Tables (varies by Term Assignment)
> > c. Rank Skill Tables
> > d. Branch Skill Tables
> >4. Free choice of "Life pursuit" skill
> ...
> >DM: +2 if E5+ or O1+
> > +4 if E7+ or O4+
> I think this is better than what I'd seen of T5. The tables there lacked focus
> (specifically the lack of branch tables) so it was harder to envision a
> particular type of character (eg an ex Navy Gunner, or a Heavy Weapons
> Marine).
Thanks, the way you listed the characters was my inspiration for setting things
up as I did. Maybe this isn't universal, but when I pare the description of a
character down to it's basics I almost always do it with 4 descriptors: Service,
Branch, Rank and Assignment. Here are some examples to show what I mean.
"Navy Gunnery NCO on Patrol"
"Merchant Bridge Officer doing Spec Trade"
"Army Artillery E2 pulling a Garrison detail"
"Civilian Medical Doctor working in a Hospital"
"Navy Medical Corpsman (enlisted) on a Strike mission"
"Marine Commando Captain on an Insurgency mission"
"Army Medical Administrator running a MASH unit"
See? Now, it doesn't always work out like that, but I have found that it
usually does. So, I tried to set up a table for each of the descriptor
categories.
Service Life: Navy, Merchant, Army, Civilian, etc.
Branch: Gunnery, Bridge, Engineering, Purser, Artillery, Armor, Medical, History
Department, etc.
Rank: Enlisted, NCO, Officer (Command/Staff), Administrator, Professor, etc.
Assignment: Patrol, Shore Duty, Garrison, Invasion, Hospital, Mash/Trauma Care,
Teaching, Research, etc.
The reason I went with 4 year terms is: (1) it's traditional (2) it fits the
"4 rolls and a pick" to get 1.25 skills per year and (3) 1 year assignments
seemed like overkill to me...yes I wanted more than the Basic CharGen gave me,
but I wanted to cut down on some of the rolling too.
> I'm not conviced by the need for the rank skill tables, adding a staff table
> to the branch options would seem to suffice.
>
Maybe, but (1) there *are* differences among what Enlisted, NCO, Junior and
Senior Officers are exposed to and (2) rank gives me that 4th table that I was
having trouble coming up with. You're right about Staff, though, it's out
of kilter somehow.
> Personally, I like the +2/+4 DMs, however, would you consider giving
> E5+ & E7+ a minus DM and extending the table in the other direction?
On the Branch skills? Where they are getting the same set of skills as officers?
Maybe, or maybe just have different tables for Enlisted, NCO and Officers for
each branch?
> Not being familiar with the armed forces, I always wondered why the
> char gen system had E10, when the commision system made it almost
> impossible to be one and the bonus skills for an officer and officer
> promotions made staying enlisted a great disadvantage.
Well, E10 *is* very hard to reach, AIUI, there are only a few Master Chief Petty
Officers and Sgt Majors in the service. OTOH, I do *not* like the extra skill
for promotion. It's always seemed backward to me. You don't get a skill because
you were promoted, you get promoted because you got skilled.
> Extending the table in both directions could give the nco ranks
> a different feel.
That's true. I'll think about it.
> Question to the list:
>
> What is the role of the E7+ ?
>
> Are they technical experts, leaders of small teams or what?
Yes. If you come at it from a civilian POV, they are the Shop Foremen in a
factory. Regular enlisted are the workers, NCO's are the Foremen that guide and
control the actual work, Junior Officers are low to middle Management that
direct the plant and give orders to the foremen, and Senior Officers are senior
Management that direct the entire company (or division) and give directions to
the middle managers.
> Should the more highly skilled people become officers?
Ha! Ha! A lot of us think it's just the opposite.
The main job of Officers is to give direction and lead the "unit" toward a goal.
It's the job of the NCO to see to it that the "unit" actually is moving toward
that goal, by applying hands-on direction to the equipment and the workers.
In a school setting, you might say the Teachers are the enlisted, with Master
Teachers (and sometimes Department Chairmen) the NCO's and Administrators
(Deans, Principals, etc.) the Officers. It's a common mistake to promote good
teachers to administrative jobs...different skill sets.
Eris
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 13:11:15 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
From: Douglas E. Berry
> the difference is that the TML regulars don't immediately take on the
> air of contemptuous superiority and the insulting air that Mr.
> Hamilton did.
Fair enough. Like I've already said, I'm not going to defend Mr. Hamilton's
attitude, which I honestly do think is over the top, but I do really think
that the points which he raised are valid.
> Y'all know me. I have arguably one of the hottest tempers on this list.
> If you've seen me on Usenet, you just how bad I can get. But When
> it comes to the TML I at least try to control myself until I get pushed
> hard. Mr. Hamilton immediately took reasoned responses and
> started insulting us. I don't have to put up with that.
I dunno, it looks to me like people are blowing this thing way out of
proportion, that's all. Look at it another way, if you really think that
this guy's a troll (and I'm not convinced that he is), just ignore him.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 12:19:00 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch
Subject: Re: Canon and Chargen
Walter Smith wrote:
> Kenn J. Capman wrote:
> >It is possible to create a character in books 4,5,6 & 7 that violates the
> >canon rule of no more skills or levels of skills than the sum of
> >Intelligence and Education.
> >How have other rectified this in their campaigns.
> >This one has always bothered me.
> We seldom had it come up, when it did we just gave the player
> a +1 Edu instead of the skill rolled. If Edu was already F(15), we
> probably would have given a +1 Int instead. If both were at F(15),
> and the character had 30 skills and was looking for more, we'd probably
> show the munchkin the door.
I'm closer to the way Erwin does it. Because I'm interested in having more
skill levels, I don't set the limit at INT+EDU. Instead I'd use INT+EDU+SOC
(Frankly, I prefer Charisma for that role and let Social Class be outside of
most skill determinations). So, really I use INT+EDU+CHA (but not everyone
uses Charisma) Now, instead of 2 to 30 with an avg of ~15, you get 3 to 45
with an avg of ~ 23.
With maximum skill levels up in the twenties you don't run into situations as
often where the character has used all his levels up, but it does happen.
What I do in that case is to let the player keep placing his skills as normal
right up until the END of chargen. The last thing done is to go back and
reduce skills (at their choice) to get down to their maximum skill levels.
The rationale is the same one that Erwin gave, "Dropping Pistol from 2 to 1
because I haven't practiced in years and dropping ATV from 2 to 0 because the
last time I drove an ATV was 12 years ago back in term 2."
Eris
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 09:40:57 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Tell us what you like about Traveller ( was: TOP 4 REASONS WHYTRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
In mail you write:
> On 03/10/00 at 12:04 AM, "Chris Seamans" said:
>
>>> Like I have to worry about that!
>
>>That's because you're a heretic of legendary proportions, Eris.
>
> Why, thank you, thank you *very* much!
>
>>You also
>>run a PBEM game, if I remember correctly. It would seem to me that the
>>medium of email would allow you to seamlessly combine background and
>>adventure in ways that might very well be difficult for a GM at a
>>tabletop game.
>
> That's true. OTOH, the downside is that everything I do is in
> writing. Makes it harder to "Roll and shout!" your way out of
> inconsistancies.
Yes, but if all the Library Data and other references are online, you
just steal an idea from MiniTruth and "update" history.
"Before you said XXX, now you say YYY!"
"Citizen, check the records, I said YYY..."
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 09:26:12 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: warbots
In mail you write:
> From: Leonard Erickson
>
>> Actually, you may be able to get by with *very* dumb warbots. Use
>> "swarm intelligence" (see article in current Scientific American).
>
> Or, alternately see the layman's pop-science book "Out of Control". Only
> marginally about weapons, but a great starting point.
>
>> Basicly, some *very* simple "rules" implemented by a *lot* of
>> similarly programmed units produce some *very* organized
>> behavior.
>
> Yep. I've been fiddling with ideas like this for my own Traveller universe.
> This sort of thing completely changes the battlefield, however, so the
> classic mercenary model of Trav goes right out the window. After all, you no
> longer have to drop infantry types down, instead you dump really smart
> autonomous ordinance which tends to make life pretty damn unpleasant for
> your average planet-dweller.
Well, I just realized *what* was bugging me about the "shield the
antenna from EMP via a surge suppressor" thread.
With a lightning strike, you are applying a large potential difference
to one end of the wire, and the other end is "grounded" (alternatively,
think of it as dumping a whole *lot* of charge at the one end, and the
charge trying to equalize).
With EMP, the mechanism is completely different. You have a sudden
sharp change in the local *magnetic* field. As the "field lines"
"expand" and "contract", they cut across all the conductors in the
vicinity *inducing* a voltage. The potential difference between two
points on a conductor is directly proportional to their seperation.
To give just one example of how this screws things up, a conventional
spark gap *won't* work. If the voltage induced between the points it
attaches to the line (say 1 cm apart) is big enough to arc over, then
the next 1 cm of line will have had *the same* voltage induced, and
that will be *after* the gap.
Also, I'm pretty sure that having a line leading into the faraday cage
*ruins* the magnetic shielding to a greater or lesser extent. Which
means that you get voltages induced *inside*...
Oh yeah, in the vicinity of a big enough EMP, you can get electrocuted
by touching a wire fence. After all, if it's generating enough volts
per cm to fry electronics in stuff with only a few cm of wire length,
just guess what kind of voltages get induced in a 50 meter length of
fence wire strung on wooden poles. Or even the 5-10 meters between
poles on big cyclone fences.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 14:19:23 -0500
From: Laning
Subject: New Zealand air force, Imperium attack craft, & Meritocracies
On 8 Mar 2000 at 21:33 (GMT+1300), frankie@mundens.gen.nz wrote:
>> Not only that, but most of their attack aircraft are now based in Nowra
>> (AUSTRALIA).
>> None of their military aircraft are based in the south island at all.
This intuitively rubs my grain the wrong way, also. On the other hand,
any land-based aerial threat to South Island would have to come from
Antarctica or the Tasmania region. Since NZ is already basing its
squadrons on Aussie soil, we can safely discount that threat for political
reasons. Likewise, it seems safe to discount the Antarctican threat. On
the gripping hand, naval and sea-based aerial attacks can potentially come
from any direction. As can truly long-range bombers and ICBMs. (I should
point out that some feel it's feasible to intercept ICBMs with F-16s.)
Only South Africa, Argentina, and Chile seem like geographical candidates
for over-the-pole attacks. Low likelihood. Countries with aircraft
carriers or submarines capable of assaulting NZ or its nearby shipping tend
to be very remote and with little or no motivation to fight with NZ.
Carrier threat appears vanishingly small likelihood, submarine somewhat
more likely.
>
>With the Iroquois (yes we're still flying Iroquois) moved north there are
>now no heavy lift helicopters available in the South Island of New Zealand,
>an area where some farmers use helicopters or micro-lites because it's the
>only reasonable way of getting from place to place given the terrain, and
>there are many overseas tourists indulging in "adventure" leisure
>activities.
>
>One major rafting accident and the official med-evac capbilities would be
>stretched.
Point made. Though I wonder if med evac capabilities don't exist at an
official, but civilian, level. Such as hospitals. I've never lived there,
so don't know how the system works. However, as an Amurrican, I have to
say that the venerable Iroquois has a definite role but I would definitely
not call it *heavy* lift. Not in comparison to the CH-47s and CH-53s I've
seen. Or Blackhawks. And then there are the Russian choppers. :->
>
>> Also, they intend to keep their Orion aircraft flying until they
>> are retired in 25 years time, by which time they will be 60 YEARS OLD!
>
>The RNZAF Orions were, in 1989 (or so) after an avionics refit, the most
>modern ASW planes in the world.
Good point. ASW aircraft don't really need to be modern. They just need
to provide a capacious and stable platform for a huge suite of electronics
and have a very long endurance. By the way, B-52s are still very useful,
and they bear that designation because they entered service in 1952.
OBTRAV: I would like to see antigrav detectors of some kind for military
use. At average stellar tech levels, you would think it would be a
standard equipment for many kinds of military units. Don't recall whether
there are gravitometers or not. But my memory ain't what it used to be.
How much range would they have? Sensitivity? Ability to triangulate on a
target?
>
>> The Air Force had plans to purchase new fighters, but the government looks
>> likely to cancel that because of the cost.
>
>Actually, this is a good thing, the fighters in question are F16s, which are
>completely the wrong sort of aircraft for New Zealand, A10s would be better,
>or an actual replacement for the Skyhawks which were perfect for our needs.
Huh? I have to disagree. A-10s are designed primarily as tank busters,
armored car busters, and bunker busters. Is South Island (or North, for
that matter) really likely to present many hostile tanks, or such like any
time in the future? F-16s are interceptors and air superiority fighters.
In most air campaigns, the first goal is to establish control of the air
space, and these are the kind of aircraft that are by far the most vital to
that goal. That said, I think A-10s are one of the coolest aircraft ever
and I love them. :->
OBTRAV: Would love to see a similar design using appropriate tech levels
to the mission. Seem to recall one MT design like that, but still thought
it could be improved upon. Besides, one type isn't enough. The Imperium's
ground attack gravcraft/aircraft would probably mostly fall into two
categories: (1) digging out a heavily-entrenched foe after complete
control of the local air space and orbital space is quickly established by
an invading fleet; and (2) combined-arms use against a lightly equipped
guerilla force or bandit force in conjunction with police/militia/regular
ground forces. Modern analogy for (1) would be Allied invasions of
Japanese-held islands in WW2 Pacific campaign. Analogy for (2) would be US
campaign in Viet Nam, British in Malaysia, political as well as police
strife in current-day Colombia, the Spanish Civil War, etc., etc. As you
can see, I believe that designs for case (2) would have to fulfill a
greater variety of specific missions and environments.
>
>> I may be an outsider, but it sure looks to me as if the NZ government is
>> ignoring their defense responsibilities in order to save a few dollars.
>
>It's a socialist Greenie government, whaddaya expect ?
>
>They've just increased my tax to 39c in the dollar too.
>
>That's the problem with allowing the unemployed to vote, they'll always vote
>for the party that promises to take from the rich and give to the 'poor',
>and spend more on benefits for those that don't produce.
>
>Frankie
Ah, here's the part that made me just *have* to post a response. :->
Any Traveller examples of an electorate that excludes the unemployed? How
about part-time workers? (Which are increasingly the kind of workers that
US corporations seek because it saves huge dollars on benefits budgets.)
What about retired people? Students? Volunteer workers? Those with
inherited wealth? Professional gamblers, and those who just got lucky on
the lottery? Elected officials? Other government employees? I have seen
SF versions of meritocracies based on military service (eg, Heinlein), but
can't think of anything like this one. Over the decades and the centuries,
does the club of those defined as eligible voters become more and more
restricted? Or more inclusive? Do the disenfranchised become oppressed
and exploited? Maybe they should be "disposed of", sent to the organ banks
or something? Just how far will citizens go to get or keep a job? Do
corporations abuse their power to decide who is employed and who is not?
Just make good political use of it? What about individual managers? If
there aren't any canon examples of this sort of government, are there any
candidate places? Come to think of it, the formation of the 3rd Imperium
seems a possible environment for this to have developed. I kind of like
that idea. :->
- --Laning
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 19:20:30 -0000
From: "Stuart Ferris"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2038
scott brandsgaard wrote:
>> And just to make things difficult for myself; imagine if you could
>> click on a system and it would take you to a full write up.
>For that, you should download Galactic 2.4 (if you have access to a
>DOS/Windows machine). (Hmm, seems as if I'm posting this URL every
>month or so.) It runs in a DOS window, and has several milieux of star
>systems. You can also use Galactic to create your own sectors.
>Personally, I enjoy M:1100 (Classic Era) and M:Interstellar Wars (Terra
>versus the evil Vilani scum). Go to:
Or if you have Windows 95/98/NT you could take a look at my World Builder
Deluxe and Heaven & Earth software at:-
http://www.downport.com/wbd/HEAVEN_&_EARTH.htm
or Tom Bont's Astrogator software at:-
http://members.home.com/tombont/GURPS/nav1.htm (New Link)
I think they will both fulfill your wishes.
Stuart Ferris
stuart.ferris@virgin.net
http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.ferris/index.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 11:28:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: re: marches map in the works
>From: scott brandsgaard
>Here's a map I've been working on of the Spinward Marches for a
Thanks for putting up this very useful resource.
- --Glenn
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Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 10:35:04 -0800
From: "David P. Summers"
Subject: Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
>At 09:29 PM 3/8/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>
>>I've talked to several senior citizens about life extension and they
>>have all had mixed feelings on the subject. Yes, they would to
>>maintain a high quality of life, no they have little interest in an
>>extra 10, 20, 50 years if it's in a feeble and painful condition,
>>yes they worry about staying in control and not making way from a
>>younger generation and as I get older I find I share their concerns.
>
>You have hit the nail on the head here. One overriding concern during my
>cancer treatments has been the quality of life issue. To be blunt, at what
>point am I better off dead?
>
>Medical science can keep alive for a long time, but there would come a
>point where that life wouldn't be worth it either due to pain or inability
>to do anything more than be a bedridden husk. That's a question that would
>have to be answered if these anagathics were suddenly available.
>
>For myself, I'm not sure I'd want to live another hundred years in my
>current state of health. If the drug took me back to a pre-Hodgkin's state,
>then I'm first in line!
One approach to anti-aging is to find why cells die and turn
that off. That would prevent the diability of old age, but
wouldn't repair anything.
Another approach is to be able to turn on the regeneration
of cells (when and how you desire), the has a _lot_ of
applications from stopping aging to restoring health. It
is one reason that cloning is such a big deal (you can grow
replacement organs).
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net. My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 14:37:42 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: RE: Roll-playing extreme violence
Walter Smith writes:
>I recall a player getting angry (upset?) at me during a Shadowrun game
>I was GMing.
>After an NPC insulted and threatened an innocent victim, the player
>looked down his nose and "thanked" me for exposing him to a deragatory
>term for people from India that he'd never heard before.
>He was acting like I was some kind of purveyor of bigotry. I thought that
>since the NPC bigot was protrayed as a barbaric villain, this attitude was
>uncalled for.
>Then I think, perhaps he was put off by a semi-realistic depiction of
>a hate crime in progress - much as another player might be put off
>if I described combat in body-parts-and-new-recruit-screaming-for-mother
>terms instead of cinematic ones.
This can be a difficult judgement call at times. Of course people
getting shot is not fun, but most players can ignore the grim reality
of armed conflict in the game context. However, most players that I
have known would balk at graphic descriptions of children being
murdered, women raped, etc. I suppose that we all have our limit,
and a GM has to guage the limit of her/his players.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 12:40:47 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Recursive Bays
GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:
>
> Tweaking the durability limits
> per compartment (using the "alien" ship guidelines) it is possible to design
> a ship that can carry its twin around in an internal bay...
Ahhh, you use a 'Bay of Holding' then ;-)
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 14:45:02 -0500
From: "Chris Dixon"
Subject: The Role of the E-7+
>Phil Kitching wrote:
>Question to the list:
>What is the role of the E7+ ?
>Are they technical experts, leaders of small teams or what?
>Should the more highly skilled people become officers?
All I know is the USMC role so take my two cents as you will.
An E-7 in the Corps is a Gunnery Sergeant, He (or She in non-combat
units) is part of the Company staff organization (at least in the
infantry). Our "Gunny" made sure we were fed, watered, and took care of
other supply/logistics functions. If we really screwed the pooch he'd
remove a strip of hide and generally make our lives miserable although
discipline rarely left the Platoon level exept for serious problems.
If you really, really screwed up you got to see the First Shirt (First
Sergeant - E-8) which fortunately I only experienced once....I decided
to be 21 on my ID card when I was really only 19, who'd have thought
they would have checked (damn Warrant Officer that's who)!!!
Master Sergeant (also E-8) is usualy in a non command position i.e. an
intel specialist as opposed to a First Sergeant that is Senior NCO in a
company.
E-9 Master Gunnery Sergeant - Non Command Highest Enlisted position.
E-9 Sergeant Major Senior NCO usually found at Batallion level and
above.
E-10 Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps - One person that is the Senior
NCO for the Marine Corps
No way do you want the senior NCO's to become officers!!! The backbone
of the Corps are the NCO's that keep things running. I'd imagine it's
the same across the services. Occasionaly an exceptional NCO will go
through OCS we call those "Mustangs" in the Corps. They're impossible
to B.S. 'cause they've already been there!! Some officers don't care
for mustangs, as a former NCO myself I found them to be among the best
officers out there.
Hope that helps.
- -Chris
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 11:51:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: re: The Yanks are Coming
>From: Walter Smith .
>Subject: The Yanks are Coming (was re: Trolls, Literature, and
>Yanks in Space)
>William F. Hostman wrote:
>(Yanks, to most US types, tends to refer to the north-eastern
>seaboard states and their peoples. )
>How did that go...
>To a non-US resident, a "Yankee" is anyone from the USA.
>To a US resident, a Yankee is someone from the Northeast.
>To a resident of the US Northeast, a Yankee is someone from
>New England (Massachusetts, Delaware, Vermont, Rhode
>Island, Maine).
It seems to me that it takes several generations in the
Northeast to become a Yankee, too. I was born there, and so was
my father and his father, but we're still not really Yankees.
To the Yankees, we're Russian Jewish immigrants.
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 13:14:50 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Life at pH 0.05....
from my daily paper (posted here since the public access goes away after
a day)
All I can say is "wow"
Iron-devouring microbe blamed for
toxic runoff
WASHINGTON (AP) - A super bug that eats iron and can
thrive in the equivalent of battery acid may be a major
culprit in causing toxic metal and acid runoff from a
California mine, researchers say.
Katrina J. Edwards, a geomicrobiologist at Woods Hole
Oceanographic Institution, said the previously unknown
microbe lives on leftover iron-rich minerals and sulfide in a
California mine. It gives off sulfuric acid, a chemical that
leaches heavy metals and causes deadly concentrations of
acid-metal pollution in mine runoff.
Edwards said researchers gathering samples 1,500 feet
down in the mine had to wear protective clothing and
occasionally suffered burns when water where the microbe
lived was splashed onto bare skin.
Even though the toxic broth in the mine was lethal to most
forms of life, said Edwards, the acid-loving microbe thrives
in that environment.
The microbe, called Fero-plasma acidarmanus, is a new
species of Archaea, a family of microbes that can live at
extreme conditions, such as the hot volcanic sulfur vents at
the bottom of the ocean.
Edwards said the microbe lives best at a pH of 0.05, about
a thousand times more acidic than gastric juices in the
human stomach. The microbe grows best in temperatures
of about 115 degrees.
Unlike most microbes, she said, the new species lacks a
double-walled outer membrane.
``It lacks a definite shape,'' said Edwards. ``It's rather like
a sagging water balloon.''
Just how the microbe, not found elsewhere, came to live in
the Iron Mountain Mine near Redding, Calif., is unknown.
But Edwards said the bug is apparently a major cause of
the heavy-metal, acid pollution flowing out of the old
mine.
She said ores for gold, copper and zinc were once
extracted from the mine. Leftover minerals provide the
food for the Archaea bacteria, and the bug then gives off
acid that dissolves the metals. This leads to a high
concentration of dissolved metals in the runoff.
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 21:06:09 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Drakarans- canonical?
At 10:25 10.03.00 -0700, Bruce Johnson wrote:
>> BUT: Are they canonical(or better: Do you think they are)? What do you do
>> IYTU's? Do you simply ignore them?
>>
>
>Are they appearing in an official, licenced Traveller supplement?
>
>Guess that settles the 'canon' issue ;-)
:-)
Somewhat. Didn't think of that. It's just that they appeared as "canonical"
for the Space Master universe before... this kind of irritated me. (and
still does)
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 20:58:11 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Is it the background, or is it the rules?(was:Re: streamline TRAVELLER ??)
At 01:04 06.03.00 +0100, Volker Greimann wrote:
>IMHO, the Traveller rules have reached a point, where they have achieved
>total adapability. Playing Traveller today is taking what you like from
>every system and creating your own rules set from that, like a kit, or a
>*spit* Clan Mech. In fact, Traveller is a bit like LEGO. YOU decide on
>which rules to use. That which makes Traveller, namely the rich background,
>remains.
I'd even put it more directly: Traveller, at first is not agame system, but
a SF RPG background universe. No. _The_ SF RPG background universe. The
various rules systems that have appeared over the years are not what
Traveller fans (at least this is true for me) like mostly about it. Since
the rules have changed several times, but the background remained somewhat
consistent, this seems quite logical to me.
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2045
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Traveller-digest Friday, March 10 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2046
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
=?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_It=B4s_always_Aslan_and_Vargr_:-(?=
re: The Yanks are Coming
Re: Re Return of Cliff?
Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
Yaskodray
Re: Hebden Bridge - *the* UK Traveller Meet?
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN aka I can't belive I got sucked into this thread!!!
re: Yaskodray
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2026
re: Derogatory Terms
Re: TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
re: If I Had A P*irate
re: New Zealand air force, Imperium attack craft, & Meritocracies
re: Deragatory Terms
re: New Zealand air force, Imperium attack craft, & Meritocracies
RE: Roll-playing extreme violence
Re: Re Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space
Re: Question about Odd System Configurations
Re: Is it the background, or is it the rules?(was:Re: streamline TRAVELLER ??)
Some maps of interest
Re: It´s always Aslan and Vargr :-(
Re: New Zealand air force,...
It's always Aslan and Vargr :-(
Re: Chargen (long)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 21:15:09 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_It=B4s_always_Aslan_and_Vargr_:-(?=
At 00:55 06.03.00 +0100, Volker Greimann wrote:
>Why is it always Aslan and Vargr, never Droyne and K´kree first...
[snip]
>GT at least tried and gave us Zho´s and K´kree together with Aslan and
>Vargr. BTW: I always felt that the Zho´s section of the GT Alien book had
>less new information than i hoped it would. There was no new stuff on the
>Zhodani Core Expeditions, something i had been looking forward to a long
>time. The DGP book promised more back when it was announced.
>
>Still no Droyne in GT, so far...
GT: Alien races is to come this year, IIRC. It will be about Hivers and
Droyne. You're not the only one waiting for more material about them. :)
About the Zhoes: Well, about the Core Expeditions, I had the impression
that they plan to publish more about them in the future (or perhaps they
want to give the GM some inspirations at hand? Dunno.).
>When T5 sees the light of day, i bet we´ll first get an Aslan and Vargr
>sourcebook. (After we get two shipbuilding books, three equipment lists,
>etc....)
:-) Anyone to bet against that?
>Soon we´ll be able to build libraries of only Aslan and Vargr books.
>CT-DGP-(T4-unpublished)-GT-T5?
I never eat or drink anything when I read this list. Good for my keyboard,
now.
:-)
>Why always redo the ones everybody already has? Why not delve into the
>unknown before republishing old facts.
>
>Still, i am glad SOMETHING is still being published. I only wished the NEW
>stuff would come out sooner. I´d also like to see more background, instead
>of more rules in the GT books.
The GT books are IMHO written in exacly that manner. Most of the stuff
there can be used with any rules system.
>I know that this has always been the curse of Traveller (been with it for
>too long to know better), but i can´t help but wish this would change.
>
>At least, a new background book is in the works. I really am looking
>forward to GT:Rim, but i would have wished for a different sector, like
>Dlan, Daibai, Vland or Antares.
Or Solomani Rim, presented in the way BTC does? Well, I like the idea...
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 21:18:03 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: re: The Yanks are Coming
At 11:51 10.03.00 -0800, Glenn Goffin wrote:
land, Maine).
>
>It seems to me that it takes several generations in the
>Northeast to become a Yankee, too. I was born there, and so was
>my father and his father, but we're still not really Yankees.
>To the Yankees, we're Russian Jewish immigrants.
ROTFL
That's America! Open for new citizens-to-be, anytime, anywhere.
- --
"This was not meant to be an aggresssion against the Siru Zirka. But we had
to organize our affairs a bit more efficiently. To be honest, we have had
to do this for almost 300 years by now."
unknown Terran politician, -2398 Imp
;-) ingo heinscher
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 13:34:35 -0800
From: "J. Paul Sanders"
Subject: Re: Re Return of Cliff?
At 09:16 AM 3/10/00 +0000, you wrote:
>At 08:53 AM 3/10/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>
>>...or resort to even cheaper spellchecking.As I
>>said,seems that I was right,boy.
>
>Please do not call me boy. That is extremely insulting. I have calledyou
>names, but I find it amusing that you take this air of superiorityand yet
>be unable to properly format your posts of even check thespelling.
>--
>
>Douglas E. Berry=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 gridlore@mindspring.com
>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
Why don't the two of you take your respective flames to private email andspare the rest of us on the list?
Paul
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 14:37:10 -0600
From: Stormhound
Subject: Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
"David P. Summers" wrote:
> One approach to anti-aging is to find why cells die and turn
> that off. That would prevent the diability of old age, but
> wouldn't repair anything.
They already have a fair idea of that...many cells have some kind of counter
that controls the number of times they can reproduce. When it runs out, the cell
will die. (Or more accurately, it'll die anyhow, but without further
reproduction.)
It's worth noting that cancer cells don't have that counter active and thus
can reproduce without limits. Shutting off the counter isn't by itself the
answer.
> Another approach is to be able to turn on the regeneration
> of cells (when and how you desire), the has a _lot_ of
> applications from stopping aging to restoring health. It
> is one reason that cloning is such a big deal (you can grow
> replacement organs).
The entire notion of anagathics is a tricky one, though we've made far more
progress than I suspect would mesh with traditional Traveller tech levels. (As if
that's something new!) As to whether they've made serious progress, or whether
they've decided that messing with genes is too tricky a prospect in most cases...
- --
Stormhound
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 12:41:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Yaskodray
From: Walter Smith
Subject: Yaskodray
Bravo! Bravo!
But I think Yaskoydray is the Droyne homeworld, not
Grandfather's name.
Also, it's Cthulhu, not Cthulu. The second "h" is not silent
(in my Traveller universe).
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 20:41 +0000 (GMT)
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Hebden Bridge - *the* UK Traveller Meet?
In-Reply-To:
SD,
> So who is going to the UK Traveller Meet at Hebden Bridge this weekend?
>
> I know of the following:
>
> Me
> Andy Lilly
> Derrick Jones
> Nick Walker? (I assume)
>
> Who else?
I was hoping to, but I don't think I'll be able to make it :-(
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
"Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 15:46:33 -0500
From: "Chris Dixon"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN aka I can't belive I got sucked into this thread!!!
>The gearheading is per se nothing bad.Everyone's
>campaign has different priorities.But remember that CT
>was at first more a wargame than role-playing,and thus
>concentrated too much on sector maps and starship
>data.
>I've heard that GT had some problems with the material
>send to them by long time Traveller fans cause of it's
>aboundance of sector data and the 134 version of the
>Beowulf,so they posted a Guide to explain the
>difference between CT and GT:
I promised myself I would stay out of this but.......
As I recall Traveller was a role playing game right from the start.
There were two add on games, Snapshot and Mayday that could be called
wargames. (Actually I played Snapshot long before I played Traveller.)
Books 1, 2, and 3 were a system that players could use to set up any
kind of universe they wanted to (really, it's ok!), within the framework
of the ship design system, (jump takes a week etc.), and the mapping
system for creating worlds. I liked traveller because of the open ended
nature of the first 3 Black Books. You could pretty much do whatever the
hell you wanted as far as a setting goes.
The supplements that later became available fleshed out one possible
traveller universe into what has become the Canon - and the source of a
hell of a lot of message traffic on the TML lately :O and because of
lack of time on my part (and the fact that I liked the 3I universe as
presented) that's mostly where we played, but not always.
- -Chris
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 15:47:29 -0500
From: "Smith, Walter"
Subject: re: Yaskodray
Glenn Goffin wrote:
>Bravo! Bravo!
Why thank you.
>But I think Yaskoydray is the Droyne homeworld, not
>Grandfather's name.
Ah well, that's what I get for never picking up
_Secret of the Ancients_. Did he have a name?
(Rewrite, rewrite, rewrite...)
>Also, it's Cthulhu, not Cthulu. The second "h" is not silent
>(in my Traveller universe).
Eh, it's a transliteration of the loathsome susurrations exhaled
by abominations man was not meant to know, I'm sure we can forgive
some spelling differences. ;-)
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 15:52:53 -0500
From: Laning
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2026
On 8 Mar 2000 14:08 PST shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:
>Subject: A New Traveller
>
>Create a Traveller *web* game. A program that includes character
>creation, ship combat, possibly personal combat and has modules for
>ship, vehicle and system design.
>
>The most elementary version would have you create your PC and some NPCs
>and take your ship out trading, exploring or whatever. You'd visit
>worlds and systems that were set up on the web. True 3-d systems. With
>a selection of Major systems predifined at the official web site, and
>folks who buy the world design modules being able to link in worlds of
>their own.
>
>So, when you visit a system, some of the ships could be ships belonging
>to other gamers. Handling combat between owned ships would only be a
>problem in that you'd have to arrange for both players to be online at
>the same time.
>
>Alas, I don't think we can easily extend the idea to on-planet
>adventuring, though we could at least have stuff on the level of the
>old MegaTraveller games and similar computer games from the past. But
>if we could integrate "computer generated" ports and areas with those
>generated by "GMs" we might really have something.
>
>I suspect that if we did it right, the systems controlled by real
>people would be more popular, especially the ones done by people who
>worked at it.
>
>I also suspect, we might need a mechanism for removing "inactive"
>worlds and especially ones that were *really* badly done (though the
>need to "do" them via a program interface might help eliminate gross
>abuses of the rules).
Good thinking, and I agree with the concepts in a lot of ways. But
Web-based games are slow and almost unavoidably kludgy. The new standard
in Internet-based role-playing games was set in 1999 by a company called
Verant (backed by Sony), which publishes and operates a game called
EverQuest (URL is www.everquest.com for a look at screenshots, etc).
Micro$oft backs a competitor called Asherons Call. Both are 3D and allow
all players currently online to interact with each other and with NPCs in
essentially real time. These both trace their ancestry through Ultima
Online and The Realm (2D versions of the same thing and both continue to be
popular) to text-only MUDs on both multi-user systems and standalone PCs.
I think that, technically, text-based adventure games on computers preceded
any published RPG for pencil & paper gaming. But P&P gaming is where both
graphical and text-based MUDs claim their roots. A slew of 3D
competitors/successors are coming down the pike in the next twelve months
or so. None seems a strong enough contender to steal EverQuest's thunder.
One of particular interest is NeverWinter Nights, a licensed AD&D 3rd
edition product. It has a different approach to the technology, not unlike
some of the ideas Leonard originated just now. I am sure these Internet
games are old news to some of the people on the list, and new to others.
They are clearly the first generation of something that is going to be
extremely big--EQ has about as many subscribers now as AOL did in 1993, for
a size comparison.
Marc, talk to Verant please. :-> They probably have more expertise than
anyone at doing this sort of thing. Just be sure to hire me as a
designer/producer on IT (Internet Traveller). LOL, but I'm more serious
than joking about that. Verant is pretty good, but I beg you to not just
sell/lease them a license; because selecting just the right people for
staff will be critical not just to success but also to achieving the right
"flavor and feel". Rumor has it Verant is in serious talks already for a
Star Trek and/or Star Wars game. They probably feel they only have room in
the stable for one SF RPG featuring spaceships. But they would be my
favorite candidate for doing the best job with Traveller. They are at
www.verant.com on the Web, or San Diego in real life.
- --Laning
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 12:52:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: re: Derogatory Terms
>From: Walter Smith
>Subject: Derogatory Terms (was re: Yanks in
SPAAAAAAACCCCEEEEE!)
>I recall a player getting angry (upset?) at me during a
>Shadowrun game I was GMing.
>After an NPC insulted and threatened an innocent victim, the
>player looked down his nose and "thanked" me for exposing him
>to a deragatory term for people from India that he'd never
>heard before.
>He was acting like I was some kind of purveyor of bigotry. I
>thought that since the NPC bigot was protrayed as a barbaric
>villain, this attitude was uncalled for.
Some years ago in Iran there was a soap opera problem. Two of
the characters were a husband and his wife. The actors who
played those characters were married to each other. Under the
applicable law, in order to get a divorce, the husband just has
to say "I divorce you" three times in public. The script called
for the soap opera couple to get divorced in this manner. After
the episode aired, the actors continued to live together as
husband and wife. There was a big inquiry into whether they
were violating the law by living together after a divorce, and
whether they were still married or not.
Anyway, that's what I thought of when I read your post. Role
playing games are like a play -- we're all just actors with
parts that we partially make up as we go along. Your player
seems not to have made that separation, which is really part of
the essence of role-playing games.
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 12:55:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
>From: "Douglas E. Berry"
>>BOY,you should charge a fee for your>(involuntary)
>>entertaining posts!
>
>Fine, that will be $50.00.
How much does that work out to per TML member who actually read
the post?
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 12:59:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: re: If I Had A P*irate
>From: Walter Smith
>With apologies to quite a few folk singers, and anyone who is
>tired of the various Sunbeard debates on the TML...
>If I Had A Pirate
>(To the tune of, "If I Had A Hammer", sung by the Mommas and
the
>Poppas and others)
Oh, very good. The other people in the office are wondering
what is so funny about the deposition transcript that I'm
ostensibly reading.
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 13:08:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: re: New Zealand air force, Imperium attack craft, & Meritocracies
>From: Laning
>This intuitively rubs my grain the wrong way, also. On the
>other hand, any land-based aerial threat to South Island would
>have to come from Antarctica or the Tasmania region. Since NZ
>is already basing its squadrons on Aussie soil, we can safely
>discount that threat for political reasons. Likewise, it seems
>safe to discount the Antarctican threat.
No threat? Well, if Cthulhu wakes up, New Zealand doesn't have
any defense anyway -- you'll just have to hope he goes to Africa
or South America instead.
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 16:05:28 -0500
From: "Smith, Walter"
Subject: re: Deragatory Terms
Glenn Goffin wrote:
>Anyway, that's what I thought of when I read your post. Role
>playing games are like a play -- we're all just actors with
>parts that we partially make up as we go along. Your player
>seems not to have made that separation, which is really part of
>the essence of role-playing games.
I felt that he was taking it too seriously, but I can empathize with
him - I simply ventured too far out from one of his comfort zones
without meaning to. Racist epithets, even issuing from vile criminals,
were not to be heard, and in retrospect I can see how I could have
jarred him and the others that evening.
I wonder what it said about his acculturation that bigotry was
not to be portrayed in any way, but sanitized lethal violence was
quite alright...IIRC, his character was a cyber-assassin with a
pretty high body count, and he was usually more descriptive than I
when it came to presentations of said violence.
Lethal Weapon 3 goooood, Huckleberry Finn baaaaaad....
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 13:14:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: re: New Zealand air force, Imperium attack craft, & Meritocracies
>From: Laning
>
>Any Traveller examples of an electorate that excludes the
>unemployed?
Traveller electorates? The only voting body at the Imperial
level is the Moot. All Imperial nobles are unemployed. (They
have plenty of work to do, but they don't have employment
relationships.) So that's the opposite of what you asked.
Any arrangement could occur on an Imperial member state.
What about the other major powers? Do Solomani citizens vote?
- --Glenn
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Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 13:23:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: RE: Roll-playing extreme violence
>From: Ian Ferguson
> This can be a difficult judgement call at times. Of course
>people getting shot is not fun, but most players can ignore the
>grim reality of armed conflict in the game context. However,
>most players that I have known would balk at graphic
>descriptions of children being murdered, women raped, etc. I
>suppose that we all have our limit, and a GM has to guage the
>limit of her/his players.
You've hit the nail on the head in your last sentence. Being a
referee is somewhere between being the host of a party and the
writer/director of a play. As a party host, you should know
what your guests like, and you want them to have a good time.
As a playwright/director, you have a vision to present and you
want to challenge the audience, so that they'll experience a
range of emotions during the event.
Players, of course, know or come to know their referees, and can
decide for themselves: X Show cast party or Martha Steward
soiree? David Mamet or Oscar Wilde?
- --Glenn
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Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 09:47:20 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space
In mail you write:
> On 9 Mar 00, at 22:49, Bolie Williams IV wrote:
>
>> At 11:28 AM +1300 3/10/2000, Rupert Boleyn wrote:
>>
>> Being from Texas, I'm glad I didn't take the bait and get irritated
>> at being called a Yank. :)
>>
>> When you do, though, don't forget that the rest of the world thinks
>> we're a bunch of gun-crazy yahoos. :)
>
> Ah, but we have a fine customs service invented especially to take guns
> off people like you :)
So? Some of us sneaky types know how to improvise firearms from
"commonly available materials". :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 12:44:06 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Question about Odd System Configurations
In mail you write:
> Leonard Erickson writes:
>> > 1) Worlds orbiting very close binaries: it's possible to have a pair of
>> > stars .1-.3 AU apart with a planetary system orbiting the center of mass,
>> > in which case you would have two suns in the sky, separated by up to
>> > around 20 degrees. Aside from looking odd, and possibly resulting in an
>> > additional weather cycle if the stars are of uneven brightness, would
> this
>> > have any interesting direct effects?
>>
>> I'm not sure you can get an orbit that is both *stable*, and in the
>> "life zone".
>
> That's debatable. You definately can't get a stable orbit within 3-5 x the
> orbit of the companion stars, but a pair of stars at .1 AU might permit a
> stable orbit at 1 AU (I suspect this would be quite rare).
Yeah, but at .1 AU the stars will have to be noticeablly *smaller* than
Sol or things get a bit weird.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 16:47:55 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Is it the background, or is it the rules?(was:Re: streamline TRAVELLER ??)
From: Ingo Heinscher
> I'd even put it more directly: Traveller, at first is not agame system,
> but a SF RPG background universe. No. _The_ SF RPG
> background universe. The various rules systems that have
> appeared over the years are not what Traveller fans (at least this is
> true for me) like mostly about it. Since the rules have changed
> several times, but the background remained somewhat consistent,
> this seems quite logical to me.
Since there are also a number of people who play in wildly divergent
Traveller universes, I suspect that it's not the background either. Indeed,
I've never played Trav for the background, nor do I honestly believe that
the background made Traveller.
Indeed, the very first subsector which I rolled up using CT looked nothing
like what would eventually come to be known as the Imperium.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 13:56:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Some maps of interest
I just put together a little program which generates graphical maps of the
Imperium (no, no code released -- it's kinda grotesquely implemented).
Anyway, I used it to create some maps of the imperium -- by stars, by
population, by economy, and by trade. It's sort of interesting -- the
Solomani Rim is probably incredibly dominant in the empire, depending how
you weight tech level (x10 per +3 TL may be high).
Check it out.
http://www.geocities.com/ac_jackson/trav/maps.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 14:02:04 -0800
From: "David P. Summers"
Subject: Re: It´s always Aslan and Vargr :-(
At 12:15 PM -0800 3/10/00, Ingo Heinscher wrote:
>GT: Alien races is to come this year, IIRC. It will be about Hivers and
>Droyne. You're not the only one waiting for more material about them. :)
Alien Races 3, The Droyne, Hivers, and a couple others, just finished
up playtesting....
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net. My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 14:54:48 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: New Zealand air force,...
>From: Laning
...
>squadrons on Aussie soil, we can safely discount that threat for political
>reasons. Likewise, it seems safe to discount the Antarctican threat. On
This hardly seems a sound intelligence doctrine; just because we feel
certain that penguins _don't_ fly hardly rules out that they may either
have or develop the capability in secret :|
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 23:49:44 CET
From: "Patrik Holmström"
Subject: It's always Aslan and Vargr :-(
Volker Greimann wrote
>Still no Droyne in GT, so far...
You won't have to wait for long, 'cause GT:Aliens 3 (Droyne and Hivers) is
in playtest.
>In TNE we only got Hivers and Idiots.
>Why always redo the ones everybody already has? Why not delve into >the
>unknown before republishing old facts.
I have been playing Traveller since TNE came out (when can that have been -
1993?) and the only alien sourcebook I could get my hands on was the TNE
Hiver book. It was very weird to read the Regency material where the authors
talked about Aslan as if every detail about them was common knowledge. So
no, not everybody has the books.
As soon I can get my hands on Aliens 3 I will have a complete set (and the
world will be my mollusc)
Patrik
"As of now you are all recumbent water-fowl of the genus Scipidae"
- - Terry Pratchett in "The dark side of the Sun"
______________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 17:56:02 -0500
From: Steve Daniels
Subject: Re: Chargen (long)
Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> On 9 Mar 00, at 20:24, Steve Daniels wrote:
>
> > Well who wants to stay in long enough for those ridiculously early
> > and out-of-place-in-a-high-tech-society aging penalties to come
> > into play at age 34? ;-)
>
> Don't know, but I do know that in the Army you'll never get the chance,
> as you'll be very lucky to make 3 terms. Getting to make an ageing roll
> in the Army would be a novelty.
You're right of course (BTW, if you missed it, the above statement is how
I admit I'm wrong ;-). The Imperial Army would attrit by 50% every
term, but not from casualities. I think it points out another reason (I won't
say "flaw") that Book 1 Chargen was 'rough.'
BTW
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2046
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Traveller-digest Friday, March 10 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2047
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
4 Bad Things About Traveller?
Top 16 Reasons Traveller Sucks
Say Kids, What do you want in T5?
Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
Re: Top 16 Reasons Traveller Sucks
[OT] D&D3
Re: Chargen (long)
re: Yaskodray
Re: Top 16 Reasons Traveller Sucks
Re: Mega-voting
Re: The Role of the E-7+
Re: Some maps of interest
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2043
Re: Tokaji Azsu 6 petunias
Re: Yaskodray
Re: Say Kids, What do you want in T5?
Re: JTAS Editorial: "You Think We Make this Stuff Up?"
Re: streamline TRAVELLER ??
Re: Some maps of interest
RE: New Zealand air farce
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 17:54:28 EST
From: Ludowick@aol.com
Subject: 4 Bad Things About Traveller?
John Hamilton mentioned some areas he feels are weaknesses of
Traveller:
1. Lack of Cybertech, Nanotech, Genetech, & "Parahumans"
2. Primary area of player action run by Empire.
3. Random Chargen.
4. Too much gear heading.
1. If you are a Traveller referee, you have the ability to shape your
Traveller Universe to be more in line with what you want from Science
Fiction. If the rules don't spell out areas you want in your campaigns,
add rules for these technologies. One of the best ways I've found to
add rules for systems not originaly present in an RPG is to steal rules
from other games I like. If you can't (or don't want to) come up with
your own rules for cyber/nano/gene widgets, steal 'em from other games
that have them. You will have to do some conversion rules, but that is
usually easier than coming up with new rule systems from scratch. You
can also go the opposite route and graft the Traveller systems you do
like onto another game with a setting you prefer.
If you are a player, you can make suggestions to your ref about some
changes he could make to improve his campaign's style. Some refs will
bounce you from the campaign, or scoff at your suggestions (make them
politely), but others run more open games and like player input.
Since you have many complaints about Trav's core assumptions, maybe you
should play other SF RPGs. It is possible that Traveller can't model
easily the SF universes you would like to portray/adventure in without
too much work.
P.S. What are "ParaHumans"?
2. If you don't like empires IYTU, you can excise them. Replace the
Imperium with a federation or republic. Or make the Imperium the "bad
guys", and have your players oppose them & lead rebellions against them.
Consider the reasons that Traveller has Imperiums; these may be valid
given the FTL technology used in Traveller. Challenge the players to
devise more efficient systems of government under similar stresses.
(Maybe you can game these states against each other, like with Trill-
ion Credit Squadron, et al.). Who says you have to follow modern SF
sensibilities & trends. It can be interesting to come up with sett-
ings that go contrary to popular conceptions of how things are &
should be run. Embrace the heresy!
3. Random chargen does present problems for some players/GMs. Others
prefer it (like me :P ). If you're the ref, make up a non-random
system of your own (a good start for a semi-random system is to keep
most rolls, but allow characters to pick which skills they learn from
the appropriate skill tables). If you're just a player, ask your ref
about making up a non-random chargen system.
I think the debate about random/non-random chargen mostly boils down
to preference. Both have advantages and disadvantages (i.e. balance
vs. minimax homogeneity (sp?)).
4. You mention in one post that you ignore FF&S in your Trav play.
This is the solution if you don't like gearheading. Ignore it.
However, I think FF&S has rules for cybernetics in it, which would
answer one of your problems from question one. Many people like
designing their own equipment, as it personalizes their TU, and
can make up for missing items that they want to add to their campaigns.
It is also fun in its own right.
Hope this can help.
Ludowick@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 17:57:31 EST
From: Ludowick@aol.com
Subject: Top 16 Reasons Traveller Sucks
Okay, I know I'm coming late to the party, but here's...
From our Home Office in Rhylanor/Spinward Marches, the "Darkside with Eneri
Kaashigaam Show's" Top 16 Reasons Traveller Sucks list:
0F. No system of advantages/disadvantages like "Just happened to be born
with superdense skin + 100 pts." or "Phobia: strong nuclear force -
1000pts."
0E. Most referees skittish about giving players access to nanotech which
gives them near total control of all baryonic matter, for some reason.
0D. Fusion powered prosthetic kidneys add so many possibilities for good
role
playing.
0C. Imperium's economy confines "steampunk" tech into small, niche market.
0B. Hexadecimal numbering system inconvenient to refs & players from sophont
species with fewer than 16 digits.
0A. Psi rules insufficient to model all the abilities of the Power Puff
Girls.
09. No giant, radioactive, fire-breathing, mutant dinosaurs.
08. No sane civilization would be run by an emperor when they can elect Bill
Clinton for President.
07. Minbari word for constipation: "Marc".
06. Rules don't spell out costs/advantages of cybernetic armpits.
05. Random character generation "too damn predictable."
04. Today's Sci-Fi nerds too fashion conscious to play passe SF game from
the
late '70s.
03. Not enough humanoid aliens with putty on their foreheads.
02. Imperial cyberspace tech so crude that its matrix interface seems to
users like an "Huckleberry Hound" cartoon.
01. Vargr not house trainable.
Ludowick@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 18:00:43 EST
From: Ludowick@aol.com
Subject: Say Kids, What do you want in T5?
>I. General
>1. Different levels of granularity for the design systems.
With lots of pre-generated equipment.
>2. Appropriate, supporting artwork.
I would add good pruufreading. Errata heavy rules don't seem to be
popular around here.
>II. Characters
>1. MT-like career-based generation system.
>2. A fast variant for quick-and-dirty characters.
>3. A detailed (MT-like) variant for well-defined characters.
>4. T4's stat improvement rules.
>5. T4's aging rules.
>6. Well-organized tables and perhaps even MT-like flowcharts.
>7. 'Reasonable' task system (T4 or MT are fine).
Rules for non-random chargen, as called for by some players. Also, the
basic, expanded, non-random, and quick-and-dirty generated characters
should all be equivalent. No one system should create ubermunchkins.
Rules for slow improvement in skills over characters life (as long as
they don't increase too much), i.e. experience rules. Also maybe used
for acquiring new skills.
I don't mind MT style flowcharts, as long as they are explained clearly
in accompanying/preceding text.
One of these days I'll post my task system thoughts. Hey! stop that
groaning!
>III. Combat
>1. Scalable - rules for large units and individuals (MT?)
yup.
>2. Integrated - How many grav fighters does it take
> to take out a starship?
yup.
>3. Worked-over version of Mayday or RPSCS space combat rules.
As long as its got traditional vector stuff like Book 2 or Mayday 1. :)
Also the Striker 3 sounds good.
>III. Vehicles & Starships
>1. Built on a solid, consistent, perfect FFS3 [not in core rules].
>2. A catalog of pre-built components and modules for easier design.
>3. A catalog of pre-built subassemblies for even easier design.
> [perhaps in core rules]
>4. Bruce Allen MacIntosh and Anders Backman's Definitive Sensor rules.
Design rules for variant tech systems a must for FF&S3, for non OTUs
out there. It would also be good to see rules & designs for nautical
ships (including naval combat).
>IV. Worlds
>[ fine as-is ]
>
>V. Adventures
>[ fine as-is ]
yup.
I'd also ditto the introductory adventures in the core rules to help
new refs set up their first adventures.
"...or a baby's arm holding an apple."
Ludowick@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 15:01:29 -0800
From: "David P. Summers"
Subject: Re: Modern day anagathics research and the New Inquisition
At 12:37 PM -0800 3/10/00, Stormhound wrote:
>"David P. Summers" wrote:
>
>> One approach to anti-aging is to find why cells die and turn
>> that off. That would prevent the diability of old age, but
>> wouldn't repair anything.
>
> They already have a fair idea of that...many cells have some kind of
>counter
>that controls the number of times they can reproduce. When it runs out,
>the cell
>will die. (Or more accurately, it'll die anyhow, but without further
>reproduction.)
There are something like 3 things that could be responsible for
aging. That is one of them but they aren't sure which one
is the most important for aging in humans.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net. My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 16:08:02 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Top 16 Reasons Traveller Sucks
Ludowick@aol.com wrote:
>
> Okay, I know I'm coming late to the party, but here's...
>
>
>
> >From our Home Office in Rhylanor/Spinward Marches, the "Darkside with Eneri
> Kaashigaam Show's" Top 16 Reasons Traveller Sucks list:
>
> 0F. No system of advantages/disadvantages like "Just happened to be born
> with superdense skin + 100 pts." or "Phobia: strong nuclear force -
> 1000pts."
Ah DAMN, Another one bites the dust!!!
have a SPLORT
http://www.u.arizona.edu/~bjohnson/images/splort.gif
;-% o oo ...
(Still drooling)
This is a bad day for keyboards: penguins with Thai food, Pyrate filks
and this...
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 18:29:27 -0500
From: Steve Daniels
Subject: [OT] D&D3
Chris Seamans wrote:
> From: Douglas E. Berry
>
> > Which is one of the things that killed TSR. Dozens of different
> > settings for ADnD that flopped, while the Forgotten Realms keep
> > thriving.
[Confused about the quoting]
Didn't you hear? With the 3rd Ed., D&D drops the "Advanced",
punts the lite/basic version, and readopts Greyhawk as the "default"
campaign setting, though they say they don't want to develop it
too much, to leave room for DMs. Though they say they plan
to continue support Forgotten Realms, this support is scanning
in OOP materials for sale on CD, and creating a single hardcover
D&D3 FR reference book.
http://www.wizards.com/3E/faq.asp
They are doing something interesting with the RPGA called
"Living Greyhawk: A Worldwide D&D Campaign".
http://www.wizards.com/rpga/LG/Welcome.asp
Take a look. An interesting idea, if play could be done online.
Their convention-based ideas, requiring real travel to experience
different parts of the game world, are just too stupid to even
consider. For instance, if you're in Southern California, you're
in Nyrond; Northern CA, Theocracy of the Pale (those people
need some sun); Texas, the Bandit Kingdoms; UK, Onwal,
Austraila & New Zealand, Perrenland.
If you made MM's house Sylea and mapped the Traveller map
onto a map of the world, what would that look like?
> Don't forget their attempt at a universal RPG. Amazing Engine anyone?
Make it go away!
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 18:38:12 -0500
From: Steve Daniels
Subject: Re: Chargen (long)
eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
> Turn the normal Promotion procedure on it's head? How about,
> instead of Roll for Promotion and if you succeed you get a skill,
> you Roll for Promotion *when* you get to a specified skill level?
By Golly, I Like It!
> Hum, well, the skills a Commanding Officer is exposed to *are*
> different from those a Staff Officer.
Ok, so what the heck is a "Staff" officer anyway? Any officer who
is not the highest ranking officer on a given assignment/operation?
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 15:34:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: re: Yaskodray
>From: "Smith, Walter"
>>Also, it's Cthulhu, not Cthulu. The second "h" is not silent
>>(in my Traveller universe).
>Eh, it's a transliteration of the loathsome susurrations
exhaled
>by abominations man was not meant to know, I'm sure we can
>forgive some spelling differences. ;-)
You're quite right. Half-whispered rumors barely overheard in
brightly-lit beer halls where men go to avoid the creeping dark
suggest that merely attempting to read the putrid glyphs used by
those selfsame abominations may so twist and bend a human mind
as to transform its hapless owner into a babbling, drooling
idiot. Even seeing the vile transliteration into our familiar
Latin characters sometimes causes us to begin writing in turgid,
adjective-laden prose.
- --Glenn
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 15:43:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: Top 16 Reasons Traveller Sucks
Ludowick@aol.com writes:
> Okay, I know I'm coming late to the party, but here's...
> 0F. No system of advantages/disadvantages like "Just happened to be born
> with superdense skin + 100 pts." or "Phobia: strong nuclear force -
> 1000pts."
Sure there is. Lessee, we'll say the superdense skin is fairly thin, only
200 lb. 2 levels of increased density (10 pts; +2 DR vs crush). That much
superdense should have a pretty good DR, but after all it isn't bonded
superdense or anything, call it DR 200 (600 pts) with PD 4 (100 pts).
Ok, its not 100 points, but the price isn't too bad. A phobia of the strong
nuclear force might not be -1000 points, but considering it would be an
absolute phobia of all matter, it's probably pretty high value.
> 09. No giant, radioactive, fire-breathing, mutant dinosaurs.
Sez who? Sounds like a great weapon for the Final War.
> 03. Not enough humanoid aliens with putty on their foreheads.
Nah, Traveller has plenty of them. Start with Darrians and Zhodani.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 18:47:52 -0500
From: "David J. Golden"
Subject: Re: Mega-voting
At 10:20 am 3/10/00 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 00-03-09 20:12:54 EST, you write:
>
><< > They're outcheating us ...
http://www.freevote.com/booth/best_rpg
> >
> > -- In an open-source world, nobody needs gates or windows ...
> >
> >>
>What's interesting is to read essentially similar cheerleading on
the DC and
>2300 AD lists.
Obviously our cheerleaders are much prettier, based on the outcome
so far ... ('our' being used in the plural sense to refer to the
group, not the royal sense to refer to Dave. If Dave had his own
cheerleaders, he certainly wouldn't be wasting time on a mailing
list. But Dave can still dream ...)
- -- In an open-source world, nobody needs gates or windows ...
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 18:58:54 -0500
From: Steve Daniels
Subject: Re: The Role of the E-7+
Chris Dixon wrote:
> Occasionaly an exceptional NCO will go through OCS we call those
> "Mustangs" in the Corps. They're impossible to B.S. 'cause they've
> already been there!! Some officers don't care for mustangs, as a former
> NCO myself I found them to be among the best
> officers out there.
In MTU, I've thought of requiring all Marine Officers to have served
one term as enlisted. And if they're not commissioned soon after that,
someone realized they know what they're doing and its NCO for them.
I suppose you could take away the possibility of commission after
X terms. That might help to explain a lot of extremely competent
but not socially connected personnel having long NCO careers.
I know that the USMC has a cap on the age at which a civilian can
enter the service (at least for officer ranks). For JAG, 33 is the
cap (though you begin as a Captain) for Infantry its 30, and for
Aviation its 28, IIRC.
Is there a similar cap on the ability of an enlisted Marine to become
a Mustang?
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 16:56:37 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Some maps of interest
Two comments.
First, I'd make the non-imperial stars a color like orange. The dark
blue make them very hard to see against the black background.
Second, I'd make the maps larger, at least double size. It'll take
longer to download, true, but they'd be more useful, IMO.
Anthony Jackson wrote:
>
> I just put together a little program which generates graphical maps of the
> Imperium (no, no code released -- it's kinda grotesquely implemented).
> Anyway, I used it to create some maps of the imperium -- by stars, by
> population, by economy, and by trade. It's sort of interesting -- the
> Solomani Rim is probably incredibly dominant in the empire, depending how
> you weight tech level (x10 per +3 TL may be high).
>
> Check it out.
>
> http://www.geocities.com/ac_jackson/trav/maps.html
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 19:02:40 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2043
In a message dated 00-03-10 10:21:43 EST, John Hamilton writes:
>The gearheading is per se nothing bad.Everyone's
>campaign has different priorities.But remember that CT
>was at first more a wargame than role-playing,and thus
>concentrated too much on sector maps and starship
>data.
How does having sector maps and starship data make it less of a role-playing
game?
I am the first to admit that Traveller's original version concentrated
heavily on the military aspects of life. This is because RPGs grew out of
wargames, to the eternal chagrin of some. Traveller can be much more than
shooting people and blowing things up (although that is one of the more fun
aspects of it for many of its fans).
> I've heard that GT had some problems with the material
> send to them by long time Traveller fans cause of it's
> aboundance of sector data and the 134 version of the
> Beowulf,so they posted a Guide to explain the
> difference between CT and GT:
What is "the 134 version ot the Beowulf"? This is a classification with which
I am unfamilar . . .
>
Have you actually read this document?
It is a guide to how to write for GURPS Traveller. It explains things like
"Always capitalize the words for alien races, including 'Human'" and "the
word is 'air/raft" not air raft." It is not an explanation of the differences
between CT and GT, except in that it outlines the few things that GT does
differently: For example, CT spells Traveller with two ells in every
instance, whereas GT uses the conventional American spelling for all purposes
other than the title of the game. The purpose of the document is so we have
to spend less time in the editing of manuscripts for inconsistencies and can
devote more time to other aspects of the line.
Loren Wiseman
GT Line Editor
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 19:02:39 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Tokaji Azsu 6 petunias
In a message dated 00-03-10 00:01:07 EST, you write:
<< I'm just thinking, though - I'd _love_ to see SJGames's file of
this kind of stuff - I'm practically green with envy over how
much they must have backlogged... :) >>
Right now we are considering something along the lines of a Library Data file
of every LD entry in canon, acessible through JTAS.
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 18:35:08 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Yaskodray
Glenn Goffin wrote:
>
> >From: "Smith, Walter"
>
> >>Also, it's Cthulhu, not Cthulu. The second "h" is not silent
> >>(in my Traveller universe).
> >Eh, it's a transliteration of the loathsome susurrations
> exhaled
> >by abominations man was not meant to know, I'm sure we can
> >forgive some spelling differences. ;-)
>
> You're quite right. Half-whispered rumors barely overheard in
> brightly-lit beer halls where men go to avoid the creeping dark
> suggest that merely attempting to read the putrid glyphs used by
> those selfsame abominations may so twist and bend a human mind
> as to transform its hapless owner into a babbling, drooling
> idiot. Even seeing the vile transliteration into our familiar
> Latin characters sometimes causes us to begin writing in turgid,
> adjective-laden prose.
Have you considered entering the upcoming Bulwer-Lytton contest?
(Entries are officially due on 15 April 2000.)
http://www.bulwer-lytton.com/
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 00:23:21 +0000
From: Paul Campbell
Subject: Re: Say Kids, What do you want in T5?
On Fri, 10 Mar 2000, Ludowick@aol.com wrote:
> >I. General
> >1. Different levels of granularity for the design systems.
>
> With lots of pre-generated equipment.
I don't have the best gaming group in the world, but I could get them
interested better with a good equipment list. There not quite munchkins, but
they do like equipment. And I wish they'd stop trying to put everything into
S*** T**k terms!
Include descriptions, pictures and anecdotes, - of equipment, not my players.
> >2. Appropriate, supporting artwork.
May I just say that Jesse is a God.
>
> >II. Characters
> >1. MT-like career-based generation system.
> >2. A fast variant for quick-and-dirty characters.
> >3. A detailed (MT-like) variant for well-defined characters.
> >4. T4's stat improvement rules.
> >5. T4's aging rules.
> >6. Well-organized tables and perhaps even MT-like flowcharts.
> >7. 'Reasonable' task system (T4 or MT are fine).
>
> Rules for non-random chargen, as called for by some players. Also, the
> basic, expanded, non-random, and quick-and-dirty generated characters
> should all be equivalent. No one system should create ubermunchkins.
A system for grading NPCs would be great. Focus on broad categories. Say for
example:: Combat: Veteran; Social: Sociable; Space: Inexperianced; Heath: Strong
Combat could range from Non-Combatant, Green, Competant[Sp?], Experianced to
Veteran
Social could range from Hermit, Loner, Sociable, ..., Socialite
Level would have a number of skills to pick from (or roll on) some tables of
appropriate skills.
e.g.:
Combat: - Experianced: 3 rolls/selections
1 Gun Combat -3
2 BladeCombat -2
3 Heavy Weapons -2
4 Physical -2
5 Tactics -2
6 Special Combat -2
I've taken a basic idea from a distant memory from Twilight:2000 and tried
briefly and very quickly to expand it slightly. It would obviously need to be
balanced against the existing character generation system so as the descriptive
labels make sense. Besides it's for NPCs, unless you /really/ want to make PCs
like this.
> >III. Combat
> >1. Scalable - rules for large units and individuals (MT?)
> yup.
> >2. Integrated - How many grav fighters does it take
> > to take out a starship?
> yup.
> >3. Worked-over version of Mayday or RPSCS space combat rules.
And above all quick.
- --
Paul Campbell
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 20:02:14 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin
Subject: Re: JTAS Editorial: "You Think We Make this Stuff Up?"
On Fri, 10 Mar 2000 13:02:15 -0500 (EST), "Garcia, Abel"
wrote:
>Jeff,
>I just returned to the list, for us newbies: what is _FREELANCE_TRAVELLER_?
>Is that an online magazine that you publish?
I've never been happy about describing it that way; I call it an
"Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller® Resource". But yes, that's
pretty much it. http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller if you want to
check it out.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 20:02:25 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin
Subject: Re: streamline TRAVELLER ??
On Fri, 10 Mar 2000 13:02:15 -0500 (EST), Volker Greimann
wrote:
> In fact, Traveller is a bit like LEGO.
Now why do I have an image of a Traveller Universe made up of
little plastic blocks that snap together?
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 00:50:53 +0000
From: Paul Campbell
Subject: Re: Some maps of interest
On Fri, 10 Mar 2000, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> I just put together a little program which generates graphical maps of the
> Imperium (no, no code released -- it's kinda grotesquely implemented).
> Anyway, I used it to create some maps of the imperium -- by stars, by
> population, by economy, and by trade. It's sort of interesting -- the
> Solomani Rim is probably incredibly dominant in the empire, depending how
> you weight tech level (x10 per +3 TL may be high).
>
> Check it out.
>
> http://www.geocities.com/ac_jackson/trav/maps.html
Awsome. But yes, make them bigger. Stick them in a .zip file if they get too
big.
- --
Paul Campbell
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 14:12:18 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: New Zealand air farce
I split up my replies, as there were three seperate bits to reply to, this
is the "real world" RNZAF and New Zealand bit.
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Laning
> >> Not only that, but most of their attack aircraft are now based in Nowra
> >> (AUSTRALIA).
> >> None of their military aircraft are based in the south island at all.
>
> This intuitively rubs my grain the wrong way, also. On the
> other hand,
> any land-based aerial threat to South Island would have to come from
> Antarctica or the Tasmania region.
> Carrier threat appears vanishingly small likelihood, submarine somewhat
> more likely.
In your opinion. We, of course, have to consider the threat from countries
like
the United States, which has a large carrier fleet, and isn't afraid to use
it to try and enforce it's political will or moral views on other countries.
BTW, so far, I have personally agreed with most uses of US military power
over the past twenty odd years, but proper military planning doesn't assume
that today's friends will always be your friends.
Obviously, alone, we would stand no chance, but is is forseeable that we
could end up being involved in say, an ASEAN versus the US confrontation,
probably over the US's interventionist trade policies and refusal to lift
trade restrictions, and we would more likely side with Asia than the US.
Of course the most likely threat at present is from Indonesia, so yes, the
submarine threat is larger.
> >One major rafting accident and the official med-evac capbilities would be
> >stretched.
>
> Point made. Though I wonder if med evac capabilities don't
> exist at an official, but civilian, level. Such as hospitals. I've never
> lived there so don't know how the system works.
There's no military airlift capabilty in the South Is, the "official" stuff
_is_ civilian. A single (maybe two now) Bell Jet-Ranger that only exists
because it's sponsored by an Australian bank and concerned citizens such as
myself, who donate for it's services.
Hospitals can't afford helicopters in New Zealand. Hell, they can hardly
afford to have doctors. Even though there are many qualified doctors driving
taxis and doing simialr work in New Zealand right now becuase our "medical
council", a bunch of self-serving snobs, refuse to allow them to be
employed. Talk about unions !
There are more commercial or private aircraft, but the biggest helicopter in
the country was a commercial Mil 8 which may not even be here anymore, I
think it ended up going to New Guinea, but while it was here it was based
nminly in the North of the North Island. There is a two-engine commercial
Iroquois somewhere in the North too.
Thing is, it would take them some time to get down to the South Island, and
there the largest is probably a Jet Ranger, which can't easily carry more
than two stretchers at a time, and then only with the right gear.
> However, as an Amurrican, I have to
> say that the venerable Iroquois has a definite role but I would definitely
> not call it *heavy* lift.
True. But the fact that they were considered heavy lift for NZ should give
you an idea of our status !
> Not in comparison to the CH-47s and CH-53s I've
> seen. Or Blackhawks. And then there are the Russian choppers. :->
We might be able to afford some Hips !
> >Actually, this is a good thing, the fighters in question are
> F16s, which are completely the wrong sort of aircraft for New Zealand
> A10s would be better, or an actual replacement for the Skyhawks
> which were perfect for our needs.
> Huh? I have to disagree. A-10s are designed primarily as
> tank busters, armored car busters, and bunker busters.
> Is South Island (or North, for that matter) really likely to present many
> hostile tanks, or such like any time in the future?
More to the point A10s can handle rough terrain, can use crappy airfields,
fly low and slow, and are good at ground attack. They can also protect
themselves pretty well against the "air superiority" crowd, at least, based
on the reports
I've read.
> F-16s are interceptors and air superiority fighters.
> In most air campaigns, the first goal is to establish control of the air
> space, and these are the kind of aircraft that are by far the
> most vital to that goal.
The small number of F16s we're looking at buying is not enough to establish
air superiority over New Zealand, and the number of airfields that they
could effectively operate out of in New Zealand is such that three or four
on-target Durandals would quickly make it impossible for them to operate
Were we ever involved in a war in New Zealand, what we need is aircraft that
can operate from backwoods airstrips, fly low and slow to avoid the radar,
and provide ground support for quick raids.
> That said, I think A-10s are one of the coolest aircraft ever
> and I love them. :->
Actually we probably don;t really need anything more than a good helicopter
gunship, but I like A10's too, which is why I mentioned them :-)
If Harriers were less tempermental and weren't a British design, I'd have
picked them. (Nothing wrong with the British, hell, I am one, but if you've
ever worked on British aircraft, you'd know why I'd rather not have them.
Frankie
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2047
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Traveller-digest Saturday, March 11 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2048
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
This is it. Any time now.....
RE: New Zealand air force, Imperium attack craft, & Meritocracies
Re: Yaskodray
Re: Leroy/Secret Knowledge
Re: Yaskodray
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20It=B4s=20always=20Aslan=20and=20Vargr=20:-(?=
re: If I Had A P*irate
Re: New Zealand air force, Imperium attack craft, & Meritocracies
Re: Yaskoydray
re: New Zealand air force, Imperium attack craft, & Meritocracies
Re: Drakarans- canonical?
GT publishing schedule
Re: This is it. Any time now.....
Re: TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: The Role of the E-7+
Re: Leroy/Secret Knowledge
Traveller Online
Re: Chargen (long)
Re: The Role of the E-7+
RTFM
=?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_It=B4s_always_Aslan_and_Vargr_:-=28?=
re: Yaskodray
RE: Yaskodray
Re: Lo-tek mercenaries
unsubscribe
Re: New Zealand air farce
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 01:33:13 -0000
From: "Derrick Jones"
Subject: This is it. Any time now.....
I've waited for 16 years for this....... Today (all things going well) I'll
play my first game of Traveller. I will really get to play it. All this time
I've been GM'ing the game I love (that isn't dead by the way!) and now
I'm finally going to play it. (cue anti-climax!)
I don't care what era, what system, just so long as I can get to play it!!!
(anybody beat 16 years without playing it?)
Thanks, TML ! I now return you to your scheduled fisticuffs...
Derrick
Derrick Jones
St Helens
Lancashire UK
http://www.btinternet.com/~dojones.whitestar
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 14:33:50 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: New Zealand air force, Imperium attack craft, & Meritocracies
> On Behalf Of Glenn Goffin
>
> > Likewise, it seems
> >safe to discount the Antarctican threat.
>
> No threat? Well, if Cthulhu wakes up, New Zealand doesn't have
> any defense anyway -- you'll just have to hope he goes to Africa
> or South America instead.
Actually, Cthulhu is an even bigger threat to New Zealand, especially the
South Island, as R'yleh is underwater some 300 miles off the coast of
Christchurch, at least according the Christchurch branch of the Church of
the Great Old Ones.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 17:43:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: Yaskodray
>From: Black ICE
>Have you considered entering the upcoming Bulwer-Lytton
>contest? (Entries are officially due on 15 April 2000.)
>http://www.bulwer-lytton.com/
Is that the "It was a dark and stormy night" thing? Hmm...
On that hideous night, foetid clouds gathered to obscure the dim
sienna moon and soon commenced to pour a loathsome and oily rain
upon the twisted, many-branched forest.
or something.
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 21:31:43 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Leroy/Secret Knowledge
Dom wrote:
<< Leroy was the guy who claimed secret knowledge of the initimate
thoughts of all past and present GDW staff. >>
He was (and is) not alone. Many people claim to have access to "reliable
sources" or "inside sources" that convey complete and total fabrications
about GDW's inner workings. For some reason, these people are reluctant to
name their "inside sources" possibly out of a fear that I will have the
sources assassinated : )
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 21:42:38 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin
Subject: Re: Yaskodray
On Fri, 10 Mar 2000 17:51:15 -0500 (EST), "Smith, Walter"
wrote:
>Glenn Goffin wrote:
>>Bravo! Bravo!
>Why thank you.
>>But I think Yaskoydray is the Droyne homeworld, not
>>Grandfather's name.
>Ah well, that's what I get for never picking up
>_Secret of the Ancients_. Did he have a name?
>(Rewrite, rewrite, rewrite...)
Unrewrite; Glenn is wrong - Grandpa Monster is Yaskoydray;
Grandpa Monster's estate is Eskaloyt (or something close).
>>Also, it's Cthulhu, not Cthulu. The second "h" is not silent
>>(in my Traveller universe).
>Eh, it's a transliteration of the loathsome susurrations exhaled
>by abominations man was not meant to know, I'm sure we can forgive
>some spelling differences. ;-)
Cthulhu in 2000! Why settle for the _lesser_ evil?
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 21:39:29 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20It=B4s=20always=20Aslan=20and=20Vargr=20:-(?=
I was hoping for a GT Trojan Reach book myself...But I agree a "new" sector
book besides the S. Rim and the Marches would be welcome...
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 12:32:27 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley"
Subject: re: If I Had A P*irate
> >From: Walter Smith
> >With apologies to quite a few folk singers, and anyone who is
> >tired of the various Sunbeard debates on the TML...
> >If I Had A Pirate
> >(To the tune of, "If I Had A Hammer", sung by the Mommas and
> >the Poppas and others)
I think it was originally by Pete Seeger.
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 12:34:15 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley"
Subject: Re: New Zealand air force, Imperium attack craft, & Meritocracies
> From: Laning
> >That's the problem with allowing the unemployed to vote, they'll always
> >vote for the party that promises to take from the rich and give to the
> >'poor', and spend more on benefits for those that don't produce.
> >
> >Frankie
>
> Ah, here's the part that made me just *have* to post a response. :->
It's sweet, huh? :-) Kind of 18th century.
> Any Traveller examples of an electorate that excludes the unemployed?
..................
> the lottery? Elected officials? Other government employees? I have
> seen SF versions of meritocracies based on military service (eg,
> Heinlein), but can't think of anything like this one. Over the decades
> and the centuries, does the club of those defined as eligible voters
> become more and more restricted?
I'm not aware of any Traveller examples, though they are of course
possible.
In general SF, there is Pournelle's CoDominium, where there is a
differentiation between "Citizens" and "Taxpayers". In the Honor
Harrington books, the Peoples' Republic of Haven (the bad guys) have a
separation between Proles and citizens, although I'm not quite sure how it
works in this case. I have to admit that I end up cheer for the Peeps when
I read the Harrington books, though - I just can't stand whitewashed
versions of 18th/19th century Britain. It makes me long for a few good
George Washingtons (and Thomas Paines - Paine was IMHO the best of the
American revolutionaries) to come along and kick their butts.
In the real world, pretty much every "democracy" established before about
1914 started off having property qualifications. Lots of people died
getting rid of them. Whether or not the club gets smaller or larger over
time depends mostly on politics. If the property owners have the upper
hand, it tends to get smaller. If they are threatened (and fail to crush
the threat), it tends to get bigger.
This is an old question, btw. The whole business of oligarchy and
democracy in ancient Greece was fought around this.
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 12:32:35 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley"
Subject: Re: Yaskoydray
> From: Glenn Goffin
> But I think Yaskoydray is the Droyne homeworld, not
> Grandfather's name.
No. Walt had it right.
The homeworld is called Eskayloyt (Lost Home), but presumably not by the
Droyne that still live there, if any.
Of course, Yaskoydray merely means Grandfather, so it might actually be a
title rather than a proper name. Clearly his real name is Yog-Sothoth.
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 12:32:45 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley"
Subject: re: New Zealand air force, Imperium attack craft, & Meritocracies
> >From: Laning
> >This intuitively rubs my grain the wrong way, also. On the
> >other hand, any land-based aerial threat to South Island would
> >have to come from Antarctica or the Tasmania region. Since NZ
> >is already basing its squadrons on Aussie soil, we can safely
> >discount that threat for political reasons. Likewise, it seems
> >safe to discount the Antarctican threat.
> From: Glenn Goffin
> No threat? Well, if Cthulhu wakes up, New Zealand doesn't have
> any defense anyway -- you'll just have to hope he goes to Africa
> or South America instead.
> From: Steven Hudson
> This hardly seems a sound intelligence doctrine; just because we feel
> certain that penguins _don't_ fly hardly rules out that they may either
> have or develop the capability in secret :|
We also have to allow for the possibility that the Anatolian Illuminati
might attempt to seek revenge for New Zealand's invasion of Turkey in World
War I, by assisting the penguins to develop flight capability, or by waking
Cthulhu.
But it doesn't matter anyway, since conventional military forces will prove
to be useless when the Elder Worms take over Earth. Only those who flee to
the Great Rift will be safe.
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 21:48:56 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: Re: Drakarans- canonical?
I thought there was some reference to a "reptilian" race living on the border
of the Zho sectors in a CT/MT rulebook/supplement...I'm very vauge on the
subject...I defer to the more knowledgeable members of the list like Hans,
Walt or Loren....
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 21:51:55 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: GT publishing schedule
Does anyone know the publishing schedule for the rest of the year after GT
starports...
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 21:59:44 -0500
From: "Sword-Worlder"
Subject: Re: This is it. Any time now.....
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Derrick Jones"
> (anybody beat 16 years without playing it?)
Fall of 1980 was the last time I played in someone else's game. I am in one
PBeM and two IRC games, but those are relatively recent, so if they count
then it was somewhat less than 19 years. Otherwise it is 19.5 and counting
:-( Last f-t-f game I ran was shortly after T4 came out in 1996. This may
have something to do with why I am an overachiever in the "website-making"
and "material-collecting" catagories ;-)
Cry me a river.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Colin Michael, WebDev
www.downport.com
The Traveller Domain
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 18:52:08
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
At 12:55 PM 3/10/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>>Fine, that will be $50.00.
>
>How much does that work out to per TML member who actually read
>the post?
Lemme put it this way: I won't be paying for the BayCon Traveller Party
room with my disability check. :)
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 19:03:00
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: The Role of the E-7+
I missed the original of this somewhere.
Phil Kitching wrote:
>Question to the list:
>What is the role of the E7+ ?
E7 or higher are senior Non-commissioned officers (NCOs), the serves athe
senior NCOs in company sized units and up, managing the day to day affairs
of the unit so the officers can do their jobs. A US Army E-7 (Sergeant
First Class), will be the senior sergeant for a platoon.
These men lead, they do not command. A sergeant will offer suggestions, but
in the end the responsibility lies with the Officer in charge.
>>Are they technical experts, leaders of small teams or what?
These are the soldiers who have achieved the technical competence and
leadership skills to allow them to guide younger soldiers in the execution
of their duties. Senior NCOs exist to ensure that what ever the day's
orders are get carried out completely, smoothly, and in a military manner.
Senior NCOs also run offices in the service, and are in good position to
make us of the legendary old sergeants' network to make things happen.
>Should the more highly skilled people become officers?
No. Officers have different duties. They need to plan the mission.
Sergeants execute that mission, and act as advocates for their troops.
The Soviet Union put officers into many technical roles that are filled by
enlisted/NCOs in Western forces. This caused them problems with such a top
heavy rank structure. Since the technical roles were filled by officers,
there was no room for the troops but in the most menial roles, which bred
resentment.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 19:12:35
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Leroy/Secret Knowledge
At 09:31 PM 3/10/2000 EST, you wrote:
>He was (and is) not alone. Many people claim to have access to "reliable
>sources" or "inside sources" that convey complete and total fabrications
>about GDW's inner workings. For some reason, these people are reluctant to
>name their "inside sources" possibly out of a fear that I will have the
>sources assassinated : )
I had a brush with a person like this a few weeks ago.
I was involved in a rgfm flamewar (isn't that redundant?) with an idiot who
claimed that trying to write for SJG was "stupid" because they only let
their close friends and cronies in. I pointed out that I had gotten the GF
assignment by simply following the procedures. He *insisted* I had to have
some *in* with you.
Finally, in complete frustration, I admitted that I had spoken to you for
fifteen seconds at Origins '93, and had been standing by the SJG both when
the lights went out.
The guy took me seriously. So for all you budding writers out there, the
secret to getting a contract is to turn down a demo game of Battle Rider
and wait seven years. Works like a charm.
Fnord.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"Non possum existimare plus quemquem facini"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 21:05:42 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Traveller Online
On 03/10/00 at 03:52 PM, Laning said:
> Marc, talk to Verant please. :-> They probably have more expertise
>than anyone at doing this sort of thing. Just be sure to hire me as a
>designer/producer on IT (Internet Traveller). LOL, but I'm more serious
>than joking about that. Verant is pretty good, but I beg you to not just
>sell/lease them a license; because selecting just the right people for
>staff will be critical not just to success but also to achieving the
>right "flavor and feel". Rumor has it Verant is in serious talks already
>for a Star Trek and/or Star Wars game. They probably feel they only have
>room in the stable for one SF RPG featuring spaceships. But they would
>be my favorite candidate for doing the best job with Traveller. They are
>at www.verant.com on the Web, or San Diego in real life.
The Verant website and those of the games were very impressive. I
haven't played this sort of thing. Would those that have say it
could be adapted to the Traveller universe? And what are the odds
Marc could interest Verant in creating an online Traveller universe?
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 21:12:27 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Chargen (long)
On 03/10/00 at 06:38 PM, Steve Daniels said:
>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
>> Turn the normal Promotion procedure on it's head? How about,
>> instead of Roll for Promotion and if you succeed you get a skill,
>> you Roll for Promotion *when* you get to a specified skill level?
>By Golly, I Like It!
I do to. It's similar to how Merchant Prince did it. Instead of
giving extra skills for promotions, maybe give extra rolls on the
mustering out tables?
>> Hum, well, the skills a Commanding Officer is exposed to *are*
>> different from those a Staff Officer.
>Ok, so what the heck is a "Staff" officer anyway? Any officer who is not
>the highest ranking officer on a given assignment/operation?
No, a Staff officer is outside the line of command entirely. These
are the Intell, Supply, Admin, Liasion, Training, etc guys that give
support and advice to the Officers in the chain of command. In
theory (and not unusual in practice) a Captain who is *in* the chain
of command would be in charge if his commanders were dead even if
staff officers of much higher rank are still around.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 22:35:33 -0500
From: "David J. Golden"
Subject: Re: The Role of the E-7+
At 07:03 pm 3/10/00, you wrote:
>The Soviet Union put officers into many technical roles that are
filled by
>enlisted/NCOs in Western forces. This caused them problems with such
a top
>heavy rank structure. Since the technical roles were filled by
officers,
>there was no room for the troops but in the most menial roles, which
bred
>resentment.
During various inspections under START I, where they got to come
over and see some of our facilities, the Sovs were flabbergasted to
see that we had a high-school graduate, 22-23 year old enlisted guy
(gal!) doing the job they required a Lieutenant Colonel for ...
- -- Cthulhu in 2000! Why settle for the lesser evils?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 22:52:54 -0500
From: Mark Urbin
Subject: RTFM
> You
> > posted a bunch of gripes you have about the game and
> > didn't bother offering
> > any suggestions.
>Well,when I say "Traveller will be outdated if it
>doesn't get Cybertech", then the suggestion for
>improvement is already in it.I didn't found it
>neccessary to write down obvious things.I was wrong.
I've seen Cybertech used in CT. TNE had rules for Cybernetics in FF&S.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"This has the characteristic look and feel of a complete fiasco."
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 19:46:09 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_It=B4s_always_Aslan_and_Vargr_:-=28?=
FYI all, the playtest files are still available on Pyramid if you're a
subscriber. $15USD / year IIRC, and you have access to all the playtest
files of upcoming games.
I HAD to download the AR3 playtests to help design all the damn ships I'm
creating for this book :) I always wanted to create new canon Traveller
ship artwork for future generations of Traveller gamers, I just never
expected them to be Hiver ships ;)
Best,
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of David P.
> Summers
> Sent: Friday, March 10, 2000 2:02 PM
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: Re: It´s always Aslan and Vargr :-(
>
>
> At 12:15 PM -0800 3/10/00, Ingo Heinscher wrote:
> >GT: Alien races is to come this year, IIRC. It will be about Hivers and
> >Droyne. You're not the only one waiting for more material about them. :)
>
> Alien Races 3, The Droyne, Hivers, and a couple others, just finished
> up playtesting....
> ______________________________
> summers@alum.mit.edu
> (This is the net. My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in
> California.)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 19:28:21 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: re: Yaskodray
>>But I think Yaskoydray is the Droyne homeworld, not
>>Grandfather's name.
>
>Ah well, that's what I get for never picking up
>_Secret of the Ancients_. Did he have a name?
>(Rewrite, rewrite, rewrite...)
>
>
>Walt Smith
>
Yaskodray is the Droyne known as Grandfather. Eskaloyt is the Homeworld.
Oynprinth.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 17:35:31 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: Yaskodray
> On Behalf Of Glenn Goffin
>
> >From: Black ICE
> >Have you considered entering the upcoming Bulwer-Lytton
> >contest? (Entries are officially due on 15 April 2000.)
> >http://www.bulwer-lytton.com/
>
> Is that the "It was a dark and stormy night" thing? Hmm...
>
> On that hideous night, foetid clouds gathered to obscure the dim
> sienna moon and soon commenced to pour a loathsome and oily rain
> upon the twisted, many-branched forest.
Acksherly, to use what seems to be an appropriate spelling, our next SF
convention has a competition for fantasy writers that has to start :
"It was a dark and stormy knight..."
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 09:10:40 +1100
From: "Katharine Whitchurch"
Subject: Re: Lo-tek mercenaries
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2020
>
> One rather interesting possibility is if you have Imperial rules of war
> for situations where balkanized worlds aren't allowed to hire mercs for
> "on world" fights that are in excess of world TL.
>
Welllll, there is certainly enough flexibility in the Imperial Guidelines of
War ("it's a Machine Gun. That's excessive ...") to enforce this [footnote
for those of you without Legal-1 - the Imperial Rules of War forbid, but do
not define, "excessive extra-planetary influence". This gives a lot of
leeway to the Imperial authorities to allow or disallow whatever they feel
like, whenever they feel like it. You might have gotten away with it in 99%
of the conflicts of the Imperium 99% of the time, but just this once Someone
feels like making a point].
> On good reason for this is so that the locals have the capability of
> doing their own "cleanup" after the war.
>
Cleanup ?
> This makes it possible to have merc units that (like in Norton's "Star
> Guard" and Drake's "Ranks of Bronze") specialize in "archaic" forms of
> warfare.
>
> Picture getting a transport contract to haul a "Roman Legion" or some
> "Swiss Pikemen" to their new contract. :-)
Basically, it's a passenger contract. None of that heavy lifting of 600 ton
mass grav tanks :)
>
> - --
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
Ian Whitchurch
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 23:13:31 -0700
From: silenus@bc.sympatico.ca
Subject: unsubscribe
unsubscribe traveller-digest
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 01:20:06 -0500
From: "Josh W. Spencer"
Subject: Re: New Zealand air farce
Frank G. Pitt wrote:
>
> If Harriers were less tempermental and weren't a British design, I'd have
> picked them. (Nothing wrong with the British, hell, I am one, but if you've
> ever worked on British aircraft, you'd know why I'd rather not have them.
True, but I wonder if Boeing is still constructing the American version, the
Harrier II (AV-8B). McDonnell Douglas makes some kick-a** military aircraft,
this and the F-15 series among them, but their civilian airliners suck, with
the exception of the MD-80 series (now the 717). I'm glad Boeing bought them
out.
- --
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)
VILANI ALIAS: Iashir Rekiinikimas Uiagam
Ypsilanti, Michigan, North America, Terra
Sol Subsector, Solomani Rim Sector
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 22:42:48 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
On Fri, 10 Mar 2000 06:36:02 -0800 (PST), john hamilton wrote:
> > You are a troll, John. You send a controversial
> > post (with an all CAPITALS
> > subject line), whose topic anyone would know to be a
> > sensitive one.
>
> Sorry,but:
> Human Rights are a sensitive issue.
> Nuclear Armament is one.
> There are a few dozen other ones.
> RPG's ARE NOT AMONG THEM.
Now you're yelling again.
Obviously I should have rephrased that. It should have read "...whose
topic anyone but John Hamilton would know to be a sensitive one." People
can be passionate about nuclear disarmament, and they can be passionate
about certain roleplaying games. For some reason you chose not to respect
the opinions of the latter, even though they had done nothing to offend you
up to that point.
If I spent hours on end poking you with a stick, you'd be a little angry,
right? But don't be so sensitive. After all, poking you with a stick is
nothing compared to the truly sensitive issue of Human Rights. You have no
grounds to get upset.
Traveller can be a sensitive issue to some people, especially when it is
slammed in a forum meant to support the game. You shouted. You slammed
the game. You didn't offer any suggestions to improve the game (in your
initial post). You didn't even bother to take a step back to see that your
words might actually cause trouble on the list. You triggered a few angry
responses. You did not respect the feelings or opinions of others, calling
them instead such things as snobs. You claim irony and sarcasm as your
defense, and make further rude and demeaning comments regarding how our own
posted replies are amusing to you (and therefore shouldn't be taken
seriously).
Sigh. No doubt you'll probably gain some sort of perverse pleasure out of
this post. This is the diet of trolls.
> > CT, MT, and TNE never "failed",
> > and neither did T4
> > really.
>
> Sorry,but the cheaply purchased edition of T4 on my
> bookshelf says different.And IIRC , T4 was ripped
> appart in this list.
Were you on this list when IG was producing T4?
If you reread the archives, you will find that most of the problems with T4
didn't stem from the game itself, but from the lack of involvement of
Imperium Games had in producing a quality product. IG insisted on rushing
products to market prior to proper editing, play testing, and even proof
reading. Some of the products received better internal support than others
(EA, CSC, PE) while some were outright production nightmares (Starships,
FS, EV). People weren't griping so much about the screwed up data in First
Survey as much as they were griping about IG's unwillingness to admit a
mistake and republish the *correct* data. Starships went to market with
ship data that couldn't be recreated using the construction rules in the
very same book (somebody decided to just chuck some numbers together at the
last moment instead). Then there's the ugly fact that many T4 authors
didn't get paid for their work. There was a lot of hatred towards IG on
this list.
Don't blame Traveller (4h Edition) for the actions of the *company* that
attempted to bring the game back from the ashes that were GDW.
> CT *evolved* into MT. MT *evolved* into
> > TNE. TNE then ceased to
> > be due to the lawsuit against GDW (this was *not*
> > the fault of TNE itself).
> > T4 *evolved* from a combination of all three, but
> > was poorly *managed*
> > (again, this was *not* the fault of T4 itself). Get
> > your facts straight
> > before leaping into dangerous territory.
>
> If you ask a hard core fan "Why does your favorite
> book/tv/rpg/comic/whatever series ceased to exist,the
> answer is never " It appealed only to a minor Fan
> base" or "It wasn't that good"( the later doesn't
> apply to T) but "conspiracies"or "TPTB ".
Huh?
> > I won't bother commenting on your "outdated setting"
> > comment because it is
> > solely based on opinion.
>
> That's exactly the problem.Everyone likes a somewhat
> different setting.But T 's just offering 3I.
Considering the vast amount of background material for the official
Traveller universe(s), creating another one as competitive as this would be
cost prohibitive. You are free to make up your own Traveller universe, and
that's exactly what so many people do on this list.
FWIW, MT brought us life *after* 3I, and TNE brought us life after that.
T4 even made the promise that other eras besides 3I would be covered once
the current material was published. It's not a lot, I know, but at least
it was an attempt at something other than just 3I.
> > Finally, you make snide comments to everyone else's
> > responses with comments
> > like "I find this interesting", or "this amuses
> > me"-- as if you are some
> > sort of omnipotent being heads above everyone else.
>
> You mean in contrast to the humble fellows who adress
> themselves as we?
That would be you too, right? The post that started this whole thread
mentioned something about you gathering opinions from various websites
around the internet. Unless you wrote the content on all those websites,
you have been unknowingly addressing yourself as "we".
This is my final post on the subject. Feel free to get in the last word,
although you better make it a goodie.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
A hangover: the wrath of grapes.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2048
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Traveller-digest Saturday, March 11 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2049
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: The Low Jump Number Question
Re: Traveller Went Down?
Re: New Zealand air farce
Re: JTAS Editorial: "You Think We Make this Stuff Up?"
Re: 4 Bad Things About Traveller?
Recruiting new fans for OTU (was: Re: This is it. Any time now...)
RE: Say Kids, What do you want in T5?
First post
ANY CURRENT TRAVELLER SHIP DESIGN CONTESTS?
Re: What if (was Re: Traveller-digest blah blah...)
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2045
filk again (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS etc.)
Re: Drakarans- canonical?
Re: TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Re Return of Cliff?
Re: New Zealand air force, Imperium attack craft, & Meritocracies
Re: Chargen (long)
Re: Re Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 22:42:49 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
On Fri, 10 Mar 2000 02:44:14 -0500, Chris Seamans wrote:
> From: James W. Lindsay
>
>
> > You are a troll, John. You send a controversial post (with an all
> > CAPITALS subject line), whose topic anyone would know to be a
> > sensitive one.
>
> Oh, come on James. Stirring up a hornet's nest every once in awhile isn't
> really a bad thing. Controversy is not bad, and holy cows should be sniped
> every once in awhile.
>
> Other people, myself included, have brought up many of the same arguments
> which John did. I think some of his comments have been over the top he does
> raise points which are frequently discussed on the list.
Yeah, but it's *how* he did it-- and how he *continues* to look down upon
people that reply to his posts.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
A hangover: the wrath of grapes.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 22:42:51 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: The Low Jump Number Question
On Fri, 10 Mar 2000 14:28:54 +0100, Ingo Heinscher wrote:
> At 22:49 09.03.00 -0800, James W. Lindsay wrote:
>
> >Are you trying to make some real world comparison here? If so, your
> >argument has a l-o-n-g way to go. You simply *cannot* compare our own real
> >life Earthling philosophies with the fictional Vilani and say "If I were
> >Vilani, I wouldn't have gone about it that way."
>
> Actually I was thinking/writing about the most efficient way to build an
> empire. A purely technical statement, culture was excluded here (though not
> expressively, sorry for that). Efficiency is somewhat easier to extrapolate
> than history.
I don't think so. Walk into a boardroom and you'll hear ten different
suggestions on how to get a job done. In each of those ten minds exists a
method which seems to be the most efficient-- to them at least. Different
people think in different ways, put emphasis on different aspects of both
the problem and the solution. This, in turn, affects how they approach
solving a particular problem. Since the Vilani canonically *think*
differently than Solomani, Zhodani, etc., it stands to reason that they
might not agree on what exactly is the most "efficient" for their people.
> (BTW: You seem to be a little aggressive here. Is this due to the recent
> flamewar here on the TML, or is it just me?)
Sorry, but I do feel like I am repeating repeating repeating myself
sometimes :)
I suppose I should apologize too. Instead of offering answers to your
questions, I got sidetracked on the issue of how the Vilani and Solomani
mindsets differ from each other. I was more interested in providing
possible reasoning why they "chose" not to expand coreward and trailing
that I didn't bother to provide any suggestions as to why they "physically"
could not expand in those directions (beside the obvious limitations of
jump-1 we have already discussed).
> >You, on the other hand, seem to think that the Vilani should have
> >progressed far more coreward and trailing than they did-- and much more
> >rapidly too. Congratulations: you've just changed the whole Traveller
> >universe.
>
> :-)
> Actually, originally I was just asking myself _why_ the Vilani hadn't
> expanded the way that I would have expected initially. I was just fearing
> my players asking that (if I can make them do some research on TU history)
> and I having no answer at hand.
Sorry. See above. The only canonical evidence that exists to answer your
question is due to the Vilani mindset and their s-l-o-w advancement in
technology. If the Vilani were conquerors with Jump-2 early on, the
Traveller universe would look nothing like it does now.
Thankfully, others have provided a possible non-canon reason why jump-1
exploration coreward and trailing was either difficult or impossible.
Personally, while I like this idea, I think that the Vilani mindset is even
more important. To paraphrase your typical Alien Module: "aliens aren't
just humans in rubber suits... they *think* differently too". A good
referee has the ability to make the Zhodani or Vilani appear to be quite
alien in comparison to our own greedy balkanized way of thinking (ie:
Solomani).
> These questions have been answered, as I see it:
> -At low TL, computing jump coordinates in deep space without the help of
> large masses as "calibration points" is far harder to do than we know from
> the 3I. Thus the Vilani concentration on the "mains", the jump-1-routes.
> -The Vilani population _not_ willing to colonize new worlds if avoidable.
> Instead, they merely made contact with other races, and by their dominant
> technology, subjugating them either economically or (later) militarily.
> These other races' planets were the markets the Vilani made their profits
> from. They just didn't _want_ to build an interstellar empire (initially).
> So it's natural that they didn't use the most efficient way to do that.
Although it isn't supported by canon, such an answer doesn't really
contradict canon either. I'll buy that (all except the "most efficient"
part :)
> >> The thing that I forgot here when I started this thread is:
> >> The Vilani didn't plann to bzuuild an empire. Tehy just invented jump
> >> drive, made a profit out of it, and waited a few centuries. _Then_ they
> >> thought it would be better for them to make an empire out of
> >> then-known-space.
> >
> >I wholeheartedly disagree. Exactly how do you describe "building an
> >empire"? What is your definition of "empire" anyway? I really think you
> >need to reread V&V.
>
> I did. Please, try to write with less emotion in your mind. I know it's not
> to offend me or anyone else, but one could see it that way...
It wasn't meant to offend, only to emphasize. I find no info in V&V that
states that the Vilani never intended to build an empire, although I guess
that would depend on who's definition of "empire" we are using. Was it an
empire before or after the Consolidation Wars? That's a hard one to answer
(my personal belief is that it was an empire the moment the Vilani spread
to the stars for purposes beyond exploration).
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
A hangover: the wrath of grapes.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 22:42:52 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: Traveller Went Down?
On Fri, 10 Mar 2000 07:25:30, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> At 08:29 PM 3/9/2000 PST, you wrote:
>
> >> The armor piercing one.
> >
> >Still ambiguous. Consider pengiuns fed *hot* Thai food for example....
>
> That would be analogus to a plasma attack, with impact and explosive damage.
With possible secondary effects akin to the "Vacuum/Hostile Environments"
rules (ACQ: p. 40).
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
A hangover: the wrath of grapes.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 00:55:17 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: New Zealand air farce
"Josh W. Spencer" wrote:
<>
>
> True, but I wonder if Boeing is still constructing the American version, the
> Harrier II (AV-8B). McDonnell Douglas makes some kick-a** military aircraft,
> this and the F-15 series among them, but their civilian airliners suck, with
> the exception of the MD-80 series (now the 717). I'm glad Boeing bought them
> out.
Easy for _you_ to say; you're not a native of St. Louis. Boeing - :-P
ObTrav: Besides Pepsi Cola (already mentioned in several posts), what
current Terran corporations, if any, still exist in the various TUs
represented on this list? Further, in which polity are any such
corporations headquartered?
As you may have guessed, IMTU, McDonnell Astronautics still exists (and
is still headquartered in St. Louis, Missouri, North America, Terra), as
does Douglas Astronautics. McDonnell Astronautics inherited the
corporate assets that ended up in Imperial space after the Solomani Rim
War, while Douglas Astronautics inherited
the corporate assets that remained under Solomani Confederation control.
To date, we haven't had the need to delineate exactly which worlds had
McDonnell or Douglas shipyards, except to note that Terra has McDonnell
Astronautics' primary small craft production facilities.
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 07:46:59 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: JTAS Editorial: "You Think We Make this Stuff Up?"
At 20:02 10.03.00 -0500, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
>On Fri, 10 Mar 2000 13:02:15 -0500 (EST), "Garcia, Abel"
> wrote:
>
>>Jeff,
>>I just returned to the list, for us newbies: what is _FREELANCE_TRAVELLER_?
>>Is that an online magazine that you publish?
>
>I've never been happy about describing it that way; I call it an
>"Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller® Resource". But yes, that's
>pretty much it. http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller if you want to
>check it out.
While one has to say that you can alo reach it via downport.com.
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 08:02:02 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: 4 Bad Things About Traveller?
At 17:54 10.03.00 EST, Ludowick@aol.com
wrote:
>
>John Hamilton mentioned some areas he feels are weaknesses of
>Traveller:
>1. Lack of Cybertech, Nanotech, Genetech, & "Parahumans"
>2. Primary area of player action run by Empire.
>3. Random Chargen.
>4. Too much gear heading.
[snip]
>3. Random chargen does present problems for some players/GMs. Others
>prefer it (like me :P ). If you're the ref, make up a non-random
>system of your own (a good start for a semi-random system is to keep
>most rolls, but allow characters to pick which skills they learn from
>the appropriate skill tables). If you're just a player, ask your ref
>about making up a non-random chargen system.
>I think the debate about random/non-random chargen mostly boils down
>to preference. Both have advantages and disadvantages (i.e. balance
>vs. minimax homogeneity (sp?)).
Though one could say that _one_ of the Traveller rules sets (if you want to
call it that way) _is_ point-based(GT)... so no problem with that for
anypone, I'd say.
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 08:11:31 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Recruiting new fans for OTU (was: Re: This is it. Any time now...)
At 01:33 11.03.00 -0000, Derrick Jones wrote:
>I've waited for 16 years for this....... Today (all things going well) I'll
>play my first game of Traveller. I will really get to play it. All this time
>I've been GM'ing the game I love (that isn't dead by the way!) and now
>I'm finally going to play it. (cue anti-climax!)
>
>I don't care what era, what system, just so long as I can get to play it!!!
>
>(anybody beat 16 years without playing it?)
:)
Not at all. 16 years ago I was 8 years old and had other things in mind...
But this is why I always say: We _must_ start recruiting new players and
fans. Personnally, I started doing this - well, by GM'ing. But there are
certainly other ways to make OTU more popular.
Before my current GT camapign I ran a GURPS:Star Trek campaign in the TOS
era of that background. It's damn stupid a background for GM, I can tell
you... _But_: You never have any problems to find new players for something
with ST (or AFAIK for Star Wars, or even Bab5). *sigh*
What we need is something to make OTU more popular. Wasn't there a guy who
started an "attempt to brng Traveller to TV?"
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 23:10:08 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff
Subject: RE: Say Kids, What do you want in T5?
> > >2. Appropriate, supporting artwork.
>
> May I just say that Jesse is a God.
> Paul Campbell
> kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk
Aw shucks!!!
Jesse
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 00:20:09 -0700
From: Dale Gyles
Subject: First post
Hello everyone! This is my first post anywhere, although I have been a
member of of the TML since this last summer. I have been refereeing
Traveller since 1980, but alas I have never been able to play a game. I
have really enjoyed the TML. It has been an invaluable resource for my
current campaign.
Dale Gyles, in Great Falls, MT
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dale Gyles
Black Eagle, MT
gyles@mtn-webtech.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 23:34:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Frodo Baggins
Subject: ANY CURRENT TRAVELLER SHIP DESIGN CONTESTS?
I found a neat but old website which calls itself
THUDDD (Traveller Highly Unofficial Democratic Design
Derby). It is located at
http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/thuddd.html
Unfortunately, it has been almost two years since it
has been updated. The site apparently held contests
for the best designed ship of a particular class, with
the ship class changing each month.
Does anyone know if there is a current Traveller
website that does something like this?
Sam
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 02:09:43 -0500
From: "DaveShayne"
Subject: Re: What if (was Re: Traveller-digest blah blah...)
>Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 14:12:45 -0500
>From: Walter Smith
>Subject: Re: What if (was Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2031 sorry)
>While in an emergency it is possible to jump within twenty minutes of
>jump exit, no one really wants to do that. A more usual procedure is
>to spend about 16 hours doing maintenance checks on the drives before
>you dump that big tank of hydrogen fuel through them again...making a
>habit out of hot-jumping will eventually end you up sitting in an empty
>parsec with a burned-out jump drive.
I don't recall reading anything substantive on that score although I don't
own
everything published so I can have missed it. And such a limitation makes
sense from a gameplay sense. My point was it wouldn't take a week. (which
previous posters on this topic have sugested.)
>
>Still, 16 hours is a lot shorter than a week. And pony-express style
>boats can jump out within minutes of the incoming boat's arrival, allowing
>an extensive enough X-Boat system to provide trans-Imperium
>communications that take hours instead of months.
>
>Walt Smith
And on well travelled routes the x-boat network will consist of the free
traders
that will already be jumping to the next system anyway.
David Shayne
+++++++++++++++++++++
Veni, Vidi, Vacca.
I came, I saw, I had a cow
- Bart Caeser
+++++++++++++++++++++
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 02:44:46 -0500
From: "DaveShayne"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2045
>Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 14:45:02 -0500
>From: "Chris Dixon"
>Subject: The Role of the E-7+
>
>>Phil Kitching wrote:
>
>>Question to the list:
>
>>What is the role of the E7+ ?
>
>>Are they technical experts, leaders of small teams or what?
>
>>Should the more highly skilled people become officers?
>
>All I know is the USMC role so take my two cents as you will.
>
>An E-7 in the Corps is a Gunnery Sergeant, He (or She in non-combat
>units) is part of the Company staff organization (at least in the
>infantry). Our "Gunny" made sure we were fed, watered, and took care of
>other supply/logistics functions. If we really screwed the pooch he'd
>remove a strip of hide and generally make our lives miserable although
>discipline rarely left the Platoon level exept for serious problems.
>
>If you really, really screwed up you got to see the First Shirt (First
>Sergeant - E-8) which fortunately I only experienced once....I decided
>to be 21 on my ID card when I was really only 19, who'd have thought
>they would have checked (damn Warrant Officer that's who)!!!
>
>Master Sergeant (also E-8) is usualy in a non command position i.e. an
>intel specialist as opposed to a First Sergeant that is Senior NCO in a
>company.
>
>E-9 Master Gunnery Sergeant - Non Command Highest Enlisted position.
>E-9 Sergeant Major Senior NCO usually found at Batallion level and
>above.
>
>E-10 Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps - One person that is the Senior
>NCO for the Marine Corps
>
>No way do you want the senior NCO's to become officers!!! The backbone
>of the Corps are the NCO's that keep things running. I'd imagine it's
>the same across the services. Occasionaly an exceptional NCO will go
>through OCS we call those "Mustangs" in the Corps. They're impossible
>to B.S. 'cause they've already been there!! Some officers don't care
>for mustangs, as a former NCO myself I found them to be among the best
>officers out there.
>
>Hope that helps.
>
>- -Chris
The distinction between commisioned and non-commisioned officers derives
from the British army in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries (perhaps
earlier.) The origional reason was one of class. An officer is a gentleman.
If you couldn't claim a minimum social class you were restricted to the
lower
ranks. If you were the second son of the Duke of Earl (or somesuch.) you
would enlist as an O1, If you were Joe the Clodstomper you entered as an
E1. Now it frequently hapens that the Dukes second son (or whohaveyou)
is a gibering idiot. And it's not unheard of for Joe to be quite competent
in the military arts. However letting Joe into the select club that is the
Officers
Mess would be unthinkable. (To begin with his table manners are probably
atrocious.) The upshot of all of this is the NCO - somebody with the
leadership
ability but the wrong social status.
The other effect of this stratification by social class is the developement
of
non fraternization rules. It is a crime for an officer to hang out with
enlisted
personell (in the US army at least.) One of the results of this particular
weirdness
is that an enlisted command structure duplicating the commisioned command
structure becomes helpfull - sergeants are permited to know the troops
that serve with them while officers are not.
IMTU the military careers are highly stratified by class (As opposed to the
socialist hippy weirdo no officer ranks scouts.) In a more egalitarian
structure
all personell would begin their careers as enlisted and the individuals who
show the most ability will be promoted to command positions. (The current
german army for instance.) In such an army fraternization rules are rather
silly and counterproductive.
As always YTUMV. (and I'm not positive on the details of the evolution of
the officer/NCO distinction just the overall effect.)
David Shayne
+++++++++++++++++++++
Veni, Vidi, Vacca.
I came, I saw, I had a cow
- Bart Caeser
+++++++++++++++++++++
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 02:19:18 -0500
From: "DaveShayne"
Subject: filk again (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS etc.)
>
>Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 23:48:34 -0500
>From: "Chris Seamans"
>Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
>On the other hand, I suspect that people are blowing this whole thing way
>out of proportion, which is a common malady here on the TML. If people here
>on the list insist on taking all this too seriously I'll be forced to filk
>again...
So from now on can we call you Chris "Stop me before I filk again" Seamans.
[with apologies to George Carlin]
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 20:44:42 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Drakarans- canonical?
On 10 Mar 00, at 10:25, Bruce Johnson wrote:
> Ingo Heinscher wrote:
> >
> > Hi!
> >
> > In GT: Alien Races 1, there is new minor race with their own star
> > empire, the Drakarans. They "invented" jump drive at TL 10 (12/C in
> > Traveller TL), when a Vargr vessel misjumped in their system. After a
> > (victorious) war against one of those Vargr states near their border,
> > they seem to be quite potent an empire (thoug a pocket class one, of
> > course).
> >
> > Almost the same race was introduced, as many of you might remember, in
> > Space Master: Aliens and Artifacts, which was written by the same author
> > (David L. Pulver) for ICE a few years earlier.
> >
> > Well, personnally I like those aliens, though I have chosen a sector too
> > far away from their side of Charted Space to actually use them more than
> > once in my campaign.
> >
> > BUT: Are they canonical(or better: Do you think they are)? What do you
> > do IYTU's? Do you simply ignore them?
> >
>
> Are they appearing in an official, licenced Traveller supplement?
>
> Guess that settles the 'canon' issue ;-)
>
> Personally, I do like 'em, too, particularly the Clotho. The minor
> aliens in AR1 are nice, different from others in canon, and I don't
> particularly care if they were published before, for a different game
> system.
I don't have AR1, but do have Aliens and Artifacts, and there are some
rather nice races in there, and most would convert to Traveller nicely,
so I don't have any problem with them.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 20:44:43 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
On 10 Mar 00, at 7:24, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> At 04:39 AM 3/10/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>
> >As I said,the best Conspiracies are the trivial
> >ones.BOY,you should charge a fee for your
> >(involuntary) entertaining posts!
>
> Fine, that will be $50.00.
Let's charge proof-reading costs, too. We could make a start on the
above post: lack of spaces on two places, all caps, poor grammar giving
an unclear meaning (does he mean posts are involuntary, or that their
entertainment value is involuntary?)
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 20:44:43 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Re Return of Cliff?
On 10 Mar 00, at 7:11, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> At 05:39 AM 3/10/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>
> >Can there be any greater proof that your right when
> ^^^^
> "you are" or "you're"
I've come to the conclusion that 'your' wrong, Doug :( "Your" seems to
have replaced "you are" and "you're" in modern English, even off-net.
However, being a die-hard user of old-style English, I'm sticking with
"you're", and the younger generation can just live with it.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 20:44:42 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: New Zealand air force, Imperium attack craft, & Meritocracies
On 11 Mar 00, at 12:34, Alan Bradley wrote:
> This is an old question, btw. The whole business of oligarchy and
> democracy in ancient Greece was fought around this.
As I may have mentioned before the only difference between an Oligarchy
and a Democracy is how wide the net is thrown when determining who is a
voting citizen.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 20:44:42 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Chargen (long)
On 10 Mar 00, at 18:38, Steve Daniels wrote:
>
>
> eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
>
> > Turn the normal Promotion procedure on it's head? How about,
> > instead of Roll for Promotion and if you succeed you get a skill,
> > you Roll for Promotion *when* you get to a specified skill level?
>
> By Golly, I Like It!
>
> > Hum, well, the skills a Commanding Officer is exposed to *are*
> > different from those a Staff Officer.
>
> Ok, so what the heck is a "Staff" officer anyway? Any officer who
> is not the highest ranking officer on a given assignment/operation?
They're all the dead-wood that is too connected to dispose of, and too
useless to send to the front to get shot.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 20:44:43 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Re Trolls, Literature, and Yanks in Space
On 10 Mar 00, at 9:47, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> In mail you write:
>
> > On 9 Mar 00, at 22:49, Bolie Williams IV wrote:
> >
> >> At 11:28 AM +1300 3/10/2000, Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> >>
> >> Being from Texas, I'm glad I didn't take the bait and get irritated at
> >> being called a Yank. :)
> >>
> >> When you do, though, don't forget that the rest of the world thinks
> >> we're a bunch of gun-crazy yahoos. :)
> >
> > Ah, but we have a fine customs service invented especially to take guns
> > off people like you :)
>
> So? Some of us sneaky types know how to improvise firearms from
> "commonly available materials". :-)
It's better than nothing though, and it gives the customs types
something to do that deosn't involve the harassment of locals, only
Texans :)
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2049
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Traveller-digest Saturday, March 11 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2050
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Re Return of Cliff?
Re: Chargen (long)
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: New Zealand air force,...
Re: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000 - Don't blame me for the subject line
Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
Minor races and jump drive
Vilani history and mindset (was:Re: The Low Jump Number Question)
Re: TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Clif Tactics
Trav More Popular
Re: Traveller Online
Traveller-digest blah blubs
The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: Clif Tactics and Questions
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: [OT] D&D3
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 20:44:43 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
On 10 Mar 00, at 8:51, john hamilton wrote:
>
>
> > Yes, but then he turned around and claimed that we
> > were accusssing him of
> > being a part of plot.
>
> Which is nonsense,boy.
> As I said,the ability to understand irony is not given
> to anybody.
Nor (perhaps fortunately), is the ability to readily comprehend poorly
punctuated emails.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 20:44:42 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Re Return of Cliff?
On 10 Mar 00, at 17:20, SD Mooney wrote:
> At 10:20 -0500 10/3/00, john hamilton wrote: >
> > Obscure? Maybe to you, but not to most. > >Well,resorting to "secret
> knowledge"?
>
> Clif isn't secret knowledge, not if you've been on the TML a year or so.
> Clif was a really hot topic end Feb 99. I thought you'd been here a year?
I managed to be off-line during the Clif incident. I've been wondering
what I've missed ever since.
Leroy I was here for, more's the pity, though it was funny (sort of)
watching him claim that GDW said things that all their published
material didn't say.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 20:44:43 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Chargen (long)
On 10 Mar 00, at 17:56, Steve Daniels wrote:
>
>
> Rupert Boleyn wrote:
>
> > On 9 Mar 00, at 20:24, Steve Daniels wrote:
> >
> > > Well who wants to stay in long enough for those ridiculously early and
> > > out-of-place-in-a-high-tech-society aging penalties to come into play
> > > at age 34? ;-)
> >
> > Don't know, but I do know that in the Army you'll never get the chance,
> > as you'll be very lucky to make 3 terms. Getting to make an ageing roll
> > in the Army would be a novelty.
>
> You're right of course (BTW, if you missed it, the above statement is how
> I admit I'm wrong ;-). The Imperial Army would attrit by 50% every term,
> but not from casualities. I think it points out another reason (I won't
>
> say "flaw") that Book 1 Chargen was 'rough.'
Oh, yeah. No doubt about that. Join the Scouts and die, join the Army
and become unemployed, join the Merchants and remain 4th Officer
forever, join the Navy and have all the status in the world and no
skills. I guess that means all the Real Men are Marines :)
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 20:44:43 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
On 10 Mar 00, at 6:36, john hamilton wrote:
> The gearheading is per se nothing bad.Everyone's
> campaign has different priorities.But remember that CT
> was at first more a wargame than role-playing,and thus
> concentrated too much on sector maps and starship
> data.
What? The rpg that brought us _Shadows_ is more war game than rpg? I
suggest you compare CT with contemporary rpgs (the original D&D, etc)
before you take this claim too far.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 20:44:43 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: New Zealand air force,...
On 10 Mar 00, at 14:54, Steven Hudson wrote:
> >From: Laning
> ...
> >squadrons on Aussie soil, we can safely discount that threat for
> >political reasons. Likewise, it seems safe to discount the Antarctican
> >threat. On
>
> This hardly seems a sound intelligence doctrine; just because we feel
> certain that penguins _don't_ fly hardly rules out that they may either
> have or develop the capability in secret :|
Shrug. Who cares whether they can fly or not? The Penguins are here
already, so it's kinda moot. Besides we Kiwis have the Penguins well
under control - just look up "Yellow-eyed Penguin" and you'll see I'm
telling the honest truth.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 20:44:43 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000 - Don't blame me for the subject line
On 9 Mar 00, at 22:53, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> The trick is keeping the "mob" from voting for "bread & circuses".
Today maybe. With the Romans the mob existed before bread and circuses,
and was given said dole to keep 'em quiet. Of course once they'd gotten
used to the free payouts those who didn't cough up soon had riots on
thier hands.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 08:22:56 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
At 00:55 11.03.00 -0600, Black ICE (a Shadowrun fan?)wrote:
>ObTrav: Besides Pepsi Cola (already mentioned in several posts), what
>current Terran corporations, if any, still exist in the various TUs
>represented on this list? Further, in which polity are any such
>corporations headquartered?
Actually, none of today's corporations survived the millennia IMTU. I am
even not quite sure whether it's conclusive to let some Imperial megacorps
have German names (Sternmetall Horizonte, Gesichtskreis
Sternschiffbau(spelling: sic! The spelling "Geschichtskreis" provided in
BTC would mean "history circle"...), Schunamann &Sohn). IMO, German as a
language simply cannot survive the coming thousand years. Anglic will,
perhaps Chinese and Spanish, but all others will vanish. Not enough native
speakers. So why should there be megacorps with names in languages nobody
understands?
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 08:58:03 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Minor races and jump drive
Hi!
I was asking myself why the hundreds of minor races in OTU never developed
(or improved) the jump drive technology on their own. Especially in the
years(centuries!) before the Vilani Consolidation wars, at least one or two
races should have been able to invent jump-2 or even j-3. Given the fact
that most of these races were initially _not_ under cultural influence by
the tech-cautious Vilani, they should have done a bit of their own
research, especially during the COnsolidation wars.
In addition, there are some minor races (namely the Drakarans of GT:AR1)
who reached a relatively high TL but never had the idea to build a jump
drive, and who only reverse-engineered (which does not necessarily mean
understandig the physical principles behind the design) jump drive
technology from a ship from one of the Six Races.
Okay, now you know the question. My first.idea answer is this:
To understand what a jump drive actually works like, a certain brain
structure (both hardware and software) is required for a sophont. Otherwise
the sophont can merely understand what it must look like to function
properly, but actually understanding the basic principles of jump drive
theory is up to those few races Yaskoydray (and his offspring) discovered
(or in one case, created) when he was looking for them. The first race he
encountered that had this ability was- you guessed it- humaniti. (Besides
the Droyne, of course.) The Vargr were created that way, the Hivers,
K'Kree, and Aslan were naturally so. On the Aslan: It is due to their
warlike nature and history that they received jump drive from another ship.
They could have invented it on their own, but that would have lasted a few
centuries more. On the minor human races: Well, perhaps genetic engineering
by the ancients to make them more humble creatures?
My problem with this solution is that it has somewhat racistic tone in
it... It wouldn't have any effect on gameplay, of course, since most PC's
won't unerstand jump space theory anyway, Six-races-sophont-PC or not. But
hte flavour of this hypothesis is... Well, I just don't like it.
Has anyone another idea why the minor races are obviously less able in jump
drive affairs? A hundred or more minor races, not one of them could develop
a better jump drive than the early Vilani...
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 08:39:04 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Vilani history and mindset (was:Re: The Low Jump Number Question)
At 22:42 10.03.00 -0800, James W. Lindsay wrote:
>> Actually I was thinking/writing about the most efficient way to build an
>> empire. A purely technical statement, culture was excluded here (though not
>> expressively, sorry for that). Efficiency is somewhat easier to extrapolate
>> than history.
>
>I don't think so. Walk into a boardroom and you'll hear ten different
>suggestions on how to get a job done. In each of those ten minds exists a
>method which seems to be the most efficient-- to them at least. Different
>people think in different ways, put emphasis on different aspects of both
>the problem and the solution. This, in turn, affects how they approach
>solving a particular problem. Since the Vilani canonically *think*
>differently than Solomani, Zhodani, etc., it stands to reason that they
>might not agree on what exactly is the most "efficient" for their people.
You mean, a Vilani would probably argue that slow and careful expansion is
far safer and thus better to build a stable empire than expanding from the
beginning? What kind of simulation rules must they use for computer program
to prove their way?
>I suppose I should apologize too.
Apologize... accepted, Captain Needa.
:-)
>Thankfully, others have provided a possible non-canon reason why jump-1
>exploration coreward and trailing was either difficult or impossible.
>Personally, while I like this idea, I think that the Vilani mindset is even
>more important. To paraphrase your typical Alien Module: "aliens aren't
>just humans in rubber suits... they *think* differently too". A good
>referee has the ability to make the Zhodani or Vilani appear to be quite
>alien in comparison to our own greedy balkanized way of thinking (ie:
>Solomani).
On that I aggree. Still IMO there are some things even in "soft science"
(like economy sciences) that are fairly predictable. For example, Vilani
must have know from the beginning that their technology would leak across
the borders of their "market zone". But at first, they didn't bother for
some reason. (Obviously those other aliens and minor human races weren't
too smart. Otherwise they would have developed and built j-2 or even J-3
ships much earlier. Hey, that gives me an idea for another thread...)
>> >I wholeheartedly disagree. Exactly how do you describe "building an
>> >empire"? What is your definition of "empire" anyway? I really think you
>> >need to reread V&V.
>>
>> I did. Please, try to write with less emotion in your mind. I know it's not
>> to offend me or anyone else, but one could see it that way...
>
>It wasn't meant to offend, only to emphasize.
As I said: I know that. :)
>I find no info in V&V that
>states that the Vilani never intended to build an empire, although I guess
>that would depend on who's definition of "empire" we are using. Was it an
>empire before or after the Consolidation Wars? That's a hard one to answer
>(my personal belief is that it was an empire the moment the Vilani spread
>to the stars for purposes beyond exploration).
Anyway, _if_ the Vilani had just wanted to accumulate industrial potency
and population, they would have had to use a different strategy than to
expand to a radius of 10 jump distances within 335 years... Given a
population of (say) 5 billion on Vland, they _could_ have done more
quickly, even without forgetting their emphasis on safety and caution. I
mean, 335 years, that's three times a Vilani's life span...
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 00:29:27 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Glenn Goffin wrote:
> >From: "Douglas E. Berry"
> >>BOY,you should charge a fee for your>(involuntary)
> >>entertaining posts!
> >
> >Fine, that will be $50.00.
>
> How much does that work out to per TML member who actually read
> the post?
Don't forget Rob's Brokers cut.
- --
Evyn...
TMLUPP:5C7A78
C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/
Wish I was a better person... with more control...
Turn the other cheek... and when the punch comes, roll...
Wish I was a kinder person... could see the others pain...
Not over react, not judge... and shrug off the spreadin' stain.
Damaged, by John Shirley/Donald Roeser, BOC, Heaven Forbid 1998.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 23:05:35 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty"
Subject: Clif Tactics
I remember grinding my teeth as I sternly kept my promise to ignore Clif
whatever he said. Eventually the silence became deafening and he buggered
off for pastures new.
It might be nice to drop this issue and ignore those we consider trolls. If
nobody responds to your posts, it's pretty apparent what people think of
you. No?
Regards
MJD
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 09:07:14 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty"
Subject: Trav More Popular
>What we need is something to make OTU more popular. Wasn't there a guy who
>started an "attempt to brng Traveller to TV?"
There was. And Is.
On that note, I need to find who can convert some written character
descriptions into colour sketches. It has to be done soon or not at all.
Anyone interested, please contact me offlist.
Regards
MJD
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 04:01:30 -0500
From: Steve Daniels
Subject: Re: Traveller Online
eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
> On 03/10/00 at 03:52 PM, Laning said:
>
> >Rumor has it Verant is in serious talks already
> >for a Star Trek and/or Star Wars game.
EverQuest?!
Unfortunately, or fortunately, almost every experienced online
game developer is "in talks" to do ST, SW, and B5. Whole lot
of talk. Not a lot of action. (And yes, I have reason to be
acquainted with online computer game developers - I work for
Roger Wilco).
If SW were to ever happen, my money says Lucas would keep
it totally in house as he already has a game development company
(not that it is producing lots these days). And it would have
Jar Jar in it, so intelligent people would stay away in droves.
One reason there were so many ST based game recently is that
a bunch of development licenses are expiring now and every
developer wants to get their game out ASAP (thus increasing the
chances of really crappy games and a market glut). Consequently,
I suspect that if ST online is ever to happen it a deal would already
have been publicly announced. It would certainly be a challenge
to create. For fantasy RPGS, it is easy to create character goals:
kill monsters - get magic stuff - get experience so you can do those
things better, faster, stronger. For sci-fi, its harder. "Get money"
works for me. But with ST, there is no economy (at least in the
Federation). So, that means creating tons of new content for
customers. Content that they haven't seen on TV. It can be
done, but the challenge is huge, and Paramount would need a
death-grip on all the content.
> The Verant website and those of the games were very impressive. I
> haven't played this sort of thing. Would those that have say it
> could be adapted to the Traveller universe? And what are the odds
> Marc could interest Verant in creating an online Traveller universe?
Well, Verant isn't the creator of EQ. 989 Studios is. And Sony
is involved as well. So interesting them alone isn't necessary.
And based on EverQuest, depending on their impact on the design,
I wouldn't want to.
Big competitors in the field are Electronic Arts and Origins which
does Ultima Online, and Turbine, who with Microsoft created
Asheron's Call. And loads of other companies are trying to break
into this area for the $10 month subscription fees (which doesn't
necessarily mean profitability for these games - bandwidth costs
are very very huge!). And their are others that haven't produced
RPGs but have high-quality sims and loads of experience in dealing
with networking thousands of people together on a server for
game play.
I think Traveller can be adapted to such an environment, but there
are significant barriers that have to be surmounted if you want to
maintain a canonical environment. Jump time is the biggest one
IMHO. That is dead air to an online RPG. Starship combat is
also a challenge to implement, as are vehicles of any sort, really
(though the work of several developers shows great promise in
dealing with this). Firearms haven't been dealt with at all for games
on this scale yet, and the potential impact of smart snipers is really
a huge hurdle. As I suggested above, there is also the question of
what you do. Where are the little green men to go kill relentlessly?
I think small planetary wars is a potential solution (players could
sign on a mercenary ticket, maybe, go dirtside, play shoot 'em up,
get a nice paycheck, then buy a ship or something). Character
death can be dealt with by accepting clone activation. So there
are challenges and potential solutions.
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 10:05:17 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Traveller-digest blah blubs
I _hate_ the "traveller digest XYZA BCDE" posting's titles. I took me over
a month on this list to find out that there is sometimes anything
interesting in those threads.
So, _please_, whoever is it who makes up those subject lines: Make it to
say more about the content of your postings. That will save a lot of time
for those who are not interested, and will attract others who might be
interested.
Thank you.
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 01:28:41 -0800
From: "Robert Snyder"
Subject: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Whenever something is prohibited but desired by the people there will
be organizations devoted to fullfilling that desire. These
organizations are the Mafia.
Is there anything Imperium-wide that could create an Imperium-
spanning Mafia Organization? Such an organization would perhaps be
stronger than any MegaCorporation and would perhaps be stronger than
the Imperium itself.
The only item that is universally prohibited within the 3rd Imperium
is Psionics. So, I would suggest that there could be an Imperium
spanning Mafia organization and it would be focused on the supply of
Psionics training/materials. Such activities would then finance
there other illegal activities. Naturally, this organization would
probably have close ties with the Zhodane. The Zhodane may use this
organization as a type of intelligence organization (3rd column)
within the 3rd Imperium.
I see the Psionics Suppressions as creating an Imperium spanning
Mafia organization. Before that time the Mafia would only have
existed as many-many small organizations focused on the ilegal needs
of individual worlds.
Is there anything in canon or commonsense that would prohibit what I
am discussing above?
So, who is THE GODFATHER--The most powerful person/family in the 3rd
Imperium ? Could the political structure of the Imperium be closely
tied to the mafia like it is in 20th/21st century Terra Italy ?
______________________________________________________________
Get Your Free E-mail and Homepage at http://www.prontomail.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 02:49:49 -0800
From: "Jesse LaBranche"
Subject: Re: Clif Tactics and Questions
> I remember grinding my teeth as I sternly kept my promise to ignore Clif
> whatever he said. Eventually the silence became deafening and he buggered
> off for pastures new.
> It might be nice to drop this issue and ignore those we consider trolls.
If
> nobody responds to your posts, it's pretty apparent what people think of
> you. No?
> Regards
> MJD
Greets everybody,
First trick of the media right there- treat it with silence and maybe it
will
go away :-)
What a coincidence, I fought with Cliff quite a bit back what, a year
ago?
Got rather frazzled, left the list for a bit. Come back and we're just
coming
down off another one of those things?
I know y'all are probably sick to death of Leroy from the sounds of it,
but
I have to ask a question. Was Leroy saying a bunch of crap about
Christians, who also RP, being hypocrites?
Just wondering because if it was, he's already been kicked off of the
Star Frontiers and Mystara Lists and I believe one other-fought with him too
If it wasn't, then I guess all of that was kinda moot eh?
OB Traveller:
Back when I left the list, I sold my MT boxed set and all of the
information.
Well, I've been running games using the Twilight 2000 (T2k) version-1 rules
system.
This is not really Traveller compatible directly, but with Version 2.2
the
conversion process is not difficult. I took these questions to the T2k list
and
while I got some decent book references, I was referred back to this list
quite a few times as well.
On that note- I looked in, saw that there seemed to be only one flamewar
going and decided to go ahead and jump in, so without any further ado (or
long-windedness I hope), here goes...
I am running a campaign that takes place on Earth a bit in the future,
but
not as far as the Imperium. Essentially, major corporations rose to
MegaCorps and a series of wars began as they battled for supremacy.
While Bio and Chem warfare was used, Electronics were the big issue
and during these wars robots (including Androids), Cyborgs, and most
electronic accessories went into extreme future levels for current
technology
The characters are members of para-military groups formed by Corporate
coalitions to battle the now over-abundant bots who've begun "reproducing"
their numbers without the safety programs that they initially had.
Okay, so here's my questions...
1. Were there rules done up in any of Traveller's editions/versions for the
design of robots/androids, cybernetics, and vehicles (atmospheric craft-
not ships).
I do recall that MT had rules for ground-craft design in the Starship
creation rules and I am currently designing bots and vehicles from those
charts from memory- Heh, really bad memory I might add.
2. Would it be legal for someone to give me information/outlines of the
flow-charts from the Traveller rules, and if so- would there be anyone
willing to do so?
3. Has anyone worked up their own rules in ANY high-tech game system
for designing this type of stuff as well as advanced electronics items that
they would be willing to share?
Finally, if anyone is interested in hearing more or wants some of the
stuff that I've been putting together (not much yet though), feel free to
let
me know.
Thanks in advance and Good gaming.
Jesse.
vanquer@email.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 03:09:52 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
- --- Rupert Boleyn wrote:
>
>
> On 10 Mar 00, at 6:36, john hamilton wrote:
>
> > The gearheading is per se nothing bad.Everyone's
> > campaign has different priorities.But remember
> that CT
> > was at first more a wargame than role-playing,and
> thus
> > concentrated too much on sector maps and starship
> > data.
>
> What? The rpg that brought us _Shadows_ is more war
> game than rpg? I
> suggest you compare CT with contemporary rpgs (the
> original D&D, etc)
>
Who cares about the past (Well you do,).I'm comparing
it with today's games.
>
> --
> "Rupert Boleyn"
>
> An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 03:09:32 -0800
From: "Jesse LaBranche"
Subject: Re: [OT] D&D3
Greetings all,
Just a couple of quick notes here. I have been an active opponent
to 3rd edition and I have play-tested the materials, so I am not taking
shots in the dark.
With that out of the way, I'm not here to argue about the merits or
problems with the game, just to add a little bit of information for those
who are interested.
> Didn't you hear? With the 3rd Ed., D&D drops the "Advanced",
> punts the lite/basic version, and readopts Greyhawk as the "default"
> campaign setting, though they say they don't want to develop it
> too much, to leave room for DMs. Though they say they plan
> to continue support Forgotten Realms, this support is scanning
> in OOP materials for sale on CD, and creating a single hardcover
> D&D3 FR reference book.
> http://www.wizards.com/3E/faq.asp
Their reason for this is that "Advanced" implies needing to know
something before advancing to advanced and has turned players off
in the past.
While their propaganda will lead you to believe that this is going
back to the original game (even calling it a hybrid of the old and new)
it is in fact a different game.
However, they will argue that it is the same game because of
keeping a few "sacred cows". The truth is that this becomes a matter
of opinion since too much change is a new game, but little change is
the same game.
They "cut" lines, while they are claiming that these game systems
flopped- I believe is more of a market ploy to funnel their markets all
into the same rules system.
A small note for those who haven't heard, they've cancelled their
SF RPG line- Alternity. With promises to release Gamma World and
Star Wars under the 3rd edition core mechanic.
They are calling this the "d20 system" and everything works using
a "difficulty class" (read target number) and modifiers (read DM).
> They are doing something interesting with the RPGA called
> "Living Greyhawk: A Worldwide D&D Campaign".
> http://www.wizards.com/rpga/LG/Welcome.asp
Really, just another marketing ploy. They already have the "Living
Campaigns" for Ravenloft and the Realms. Living Greyhawk will just
be a Greyhawk version of these.
> Take a look. An interesting idea, if play could be done online.
> Their convention-based ideas, requiring real travel to experience
> different parts of the game world, are just too stupid to even
> consider. For instance, if you're in Southern California, you're
> in Nyrond; Northern CA, Theocracy of the Pale (those people
> need some sun); Texas, the Bandit Kingdoms; UK, Onwal,
> Austraila & New Zealand, Perrenland.
> If you made MM's house Sylea and mapped the Traveller map
> onto a map of the world, what would that look like?
I believe that their online campaign will be something like Neverwinter
or something like that. This will be in the FR and I haven't paid much
attention to it, but it does sound like it's going to be a modified MUD-
complete with "pay to play".
> > Don't forget their attempt at a universal RPG. Amazing Engine anyone?
> Make it go away!
> bloo
Well, later and good gaming- My apologies for the OTP's.
Jesse.
vanquer@email.msn.com
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2050
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Traveller-digest Saturday, March 11 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2051
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Re Return of Cliff?
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Copyright FAQ
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: TOUCHSTONE
Re: If I Had A P*irate
Re: If I Had A P*irate
Re: The Role of the E-7+
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: 4 Bad Things About Traveller?
Re: streamline TRAVELLER ??
Re: (silly) Top 16 reasons Traveller sucks
Re: The Role of the E-7+
Re: Yaskodray
Re: If I Had A P*irate
Re: Imperial expansion to trailing
Re: Clif Tactics and Questions
Re: Re Return of Cliff?
Re: TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 03:12:53 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: Re Return of Cliff?
- --- Rupert Boleyn wrote:
>
>
> On 10 Mar 00, at 7:11, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>
> > At 05:39 AM 3/10/2000 -0800, you wrote:
> >
> > >Can there be any greater proof that your right
> when
> > ^^^^
> > "you are" or "you're"
>
> I've come to the conclusion that 'your' wrong, Doug
> :( "Your" seems to
> have replaced "you are" and "you're" in modern
> English, even off-net.
> However, being a die-hard user of old-style
everything.It seems that's your problem.You simply
can't adapt to modern things,which is double funny in
a List about SF.
English,
> I'm sticking with
> "you're", and the younger generation can just live
> with it.
>
> --
> "Rupert Boleyn"
>
> An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 03:19:01 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
> Yeah, but it's *how* he did it-- and how he
> *continues* to look down upon
> people that reply to his posts.
>
I'm not looking down to other people.This is reserved
to snoby people who ,for example,think that a new
member of the list has to wait to say his opinion
about the games weaknesses.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
> James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British
> Columbia, Canada
> Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay
> ICQ: #7521644
>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
> A hangover: the wrath of grapes.
>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 03:22:46 -0800
From: "Jesse LaBranche"
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Greets all,
Robert Snyder wrote:
> I see the Psionics Suppressions as creating an Imperium spanning
> Mafia organization. Before that time the Mafia would only have
> existed as many-many small organizations focused on the ilegal needs
> of individual worlds.
> Is there anything in canon or commonsense that would prohibit what I
> am discussing above?
> So, who is THE GODFATHER--The most powerful person/family in the 3rd
> Imperium ? Could the political structure of the Imperium be closely
> tied to the mafia like it is in 20th/21st century Terra Italy ?
Cool thoughts heres. You wouldn't really need them to be based on a
single universally illegal item to operate. In fact, manufacturing/exporting
legally in one area, then importing/distributing illegally in another is
quite
well within the realms of the Mafia.
Consider drugs manufactured in South America and shipped to the US
for sales here. The same methods could be an integral part of the Mafia in
the Imperium.
I would suggest setting up a series of Cartels as opposed to the
structure seen in the Godfather though. Also, the sheer size of such groups
in the Imperium would lead to many double-crosses and smaller factions
breaking off continuously from the main group.
Another thought was when it comes to weapons bans/restrictions, you've
got a good scenario for gun-running as well. This entire idea of yours is
just LOADED with potential scenarios for PC's.
Putting characters either into the ranks of the organization or trying
to
fight it could just be an incredible action run. Something you might want to
consider is taking a look at the Huts in Star Wars too.
Hope that helped some.
Later and good gaming.
Jesse.
vanquer@email.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 03:27:17 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
- --- "James W. Lindsay" wrote:
> Were you on this list when IG was producing T4?
> If you reread the archives,
It's funny if people contradict themselves.
If you ask a hard core fan "Why does your favorite
> > book/tv/rpg/comic/whatever series ceased to
> exist,the
> > answer is never " It appealed only to a minor Fan
> > base" or "It wasn't that good"( the later doesn't
> > apply to T) but "conspiracies"or "TPTB ".
>
> Huh?
To complicated ?
>
> This is my final post on the subject.
But not a good one.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 05:53:55 -0600 (EST)
From: Christopher Thrash
Subject: Copyright FAQ
The Daily Illuminator for today published the U.S. government's FAQ list
on copyrights:
http://www.loc.gov/copyright/faq.html
(Check out #58 for the Illuminated connection.)
Given the interest in copyrights over the last few weeks, I thought it
might be usefule to see it from the bureaucrat's mouth. Apologies if this
has been brought up before.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 03:57:02 -0800
From: sneadj@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
"Robert Snyder" wrote:
>Whenever something is prohibited but desired by the people there
>will be organizations devoted to fullfilling that desire. These
>organizations are the Mafia.
>Is there anything Imperium-wide that could create an Imperium-
>spanning Mafia Organization? Such an organization would
>perhaps be stronger than any MegaCorporation and would
>perhaps be stronger than the Imperium itself.
>The only item that is universally prohibited within the 3rd Imperium
>is Psionics. So, I would suggest that there could be an Imperium
>spanning Mafia organization and it would be focused on the
>supply of Psionics training/materials. Such activities would then
>finance there other illegal activities. Naturally, this organization
>would probably have close ties with the Zhodane. The Zhodane
>may use this organization as a type of intelligence organization
>(3rd column) within the 3rd Imperium.
Take a look at Andre Norton's SF which deal with their Thieves
Guild. Night of Masks, Forerunner Foray, The Zero Stone, and
especially Uncharted Stars are all good books for this. Mine them
for ideas, they're *great*.
>I see the Psionics Suppressions as creating an Imperium
>spanning Mafia organization. Before that time the Mafia would
>only have existed as many-many small organizations focused on
>the ilegal needs of individual worlds.
>Is there anything in canon or commonsense that would prohibit
>what I am discussing above?
Nope, and I think it's a great idea. SuSAG (and I believe several of
the other) Imperial megacorps do manufacture psi-boosting drugs
outside of the Imperium in various client-states where psionics wee
not illegal. They sell these drugs both outside and inside (illegally)
the Imperium. The mafia would be involved in that portion of sales
in which took place inside the Imperium. Just like in the US, the
mafia would have its hooks in a number of large corporations.
However, I'm certain that the interstellar mafia would also move
beyond psi. There are likely to be drugs which are illegal
everywhere, and slavery is prohibited throughout the Imperium.
Both might be used by them to gain profit. Contract murder,
contract theft, and piracy would also likely be popular sidelines.
Also, another major Imperial law is that all Ancient artifacts must
be turned over to the Imperium. I imagine there would be trade in
illegal Ancient artifacts and that the mafia would be at the center of
it.
Comments?
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 07:08:24 -0600
From: Michael Maley
Subject: Re: TOUCHSTONE
It's the sector rimward of the Beyond sector. In Aslan parlance, its
called Wrasuirlaoa. In my game, Dark Goddesses has a few corsair/merc
retirement colonies there.
sorry for the delay in replying, Today the first time I've had time to
check the list-been busy since finding some of my Traveller notes.
darkhstarr
"Garcia, Abel" wrote:
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Maley [mailto:mmaley@home.com]
>
> I do like to do maps and design vehicles/ships. I love the Hexmap
> shareware. Been generating subsectors in Touchstone with it.
> darkhstarr
> ________________________________________________
>
> What is "Touchstone"?
> Abel
> (tne++)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 07:35:15 -0600
From: Michael Maley
Subject: Re: If I Had A P*irate
:) I like it. Have to send a copy to my wife.
darkhstarr
Walter Smith wrote:
>
> With apologies to quite a few folk singers, and anyone who is tired
> of the various Sunbeard debates on the TML...
>
> If I Had A Pirate
> (To the tune of, "If I Had A Hammer", sung by the Mommas and the
> Poppas and others)
>
> If I rolled a character,
> I'd have him be a Pirate,
> A strong, smart Pirate,
> Yes that's my pla-an,
> He'd make all the right rolls,
> He'd make Pirate Lee-eader,
> And he'd retire,
> He'd muster out,
> And get himself a starship...
> Woah-oh-ih-ohhh,
> That's my pla-a-a-an.
> Yeah, ye-ah yeah...
>
> If I had a Corsair,
> I'd raid them in the Marches,
> I'd raid them in the Sword Worlds,
> Anywhere I can!!
> We'd board Free Traders,
> We'd board Sub Merchants,
> And we'd make TONS of credits,
> And never lose a battle...
> Oh-yeah-ih-yeah, thats my plan, woah-oh-oh,
> Yeah, yeah, yeah
>
> Well I've got a Pirate,
> And I've got a Cor-sair,
> And I've got a Game, to play
> Traveller, my frie-end!
> Hey, Pirates are Canon,
> They've got official - CharGen!
> So we're gonna have FUN, together,
> Until we meet some warships,
> And then we'll roll, them up again, enn enn...
> Woah, woa-oh-ho...
> Yea
> (fade)
>
> Copyright 2000 Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 07:35:15 -0600
From: Michael Maley
Subject: Re: If I Had A P*irate
:) I like it. Have to send a copy to my wife.
darkhstarr
Walter Smith wrote:
>
> With apologies to quite a few folk singers, and anyone who is tired
> of the various Sunbeard debates on the TML...
>
> If I Had A Pirate
> (To the tune of, "If I Had A Hammer", sung by the Mommas and the
> Poppas and others)
>
> If I rolled a character,
> I'd have him be a Pirate,
> A strong, smart Pirate,
> Yes that's my pla-an,
> He'd make all the right rolls,
> He'd make Pirate Lee-eader,
> And he'd retire,
> He'd muster out,
> And get himself a starship...
> Woah-oh-ih-ohhh,
> That's my pla-a-a-an.
> Yeah, ye-ah yeah...
>
> If I had a Corsair,
> I'd raid them in the Marches,
> I'd raid them in the Sword Worlds,
> Anywhere I can!!
> We'd board Free Traders,
> We'd board Sub Merchants,
> And we'd make TONS of credits,
> And never lose a battle...
> Oh-yeah-ih-yeah, thats my plan, woah-oh-oh,
> Yeah, yeah, yeah
>
> Well I've got a Pirate,
> And I've got a Cor-sair,
> And I've got a Game, to play
> Traveller, my frie-end!
> Hey, Pirates are Canon,
> They've got official - CharGen!
> So we're gonna have FUN, together,
> Until we meet some warships,
> And then we'll roll, them up again, enn enn...
> Woah, woa-oh-ho...
> Yea
> (fade)
>
> Copyright 2000 Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 14:42:15 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: The Role of the E-7+
On Fri, 10 Mar 2000 22:35:33 -0500, "David J. Golden"
wrote:
>At 07:03 pm 3/10/00, you wrote:
>>The Soviet Union put officers into many technical roles that are
>filled by
>>enlisted/NCOs in Western forces. This caused them problems with such
>a top
>>heavy rank structure. Since the technical roles were filled by
>officers,
>>there was no room for the troops but in the most menial roles, which
>bred
>>resentment.
>
> During various inspections under START I, where they got to come
>over and see some of our facilities, the Sovs were flabbergasted to
>see that we had a high-school graduate, 22-23 year old enlisted guy
>(gal!) doing the job they required a Lieutenant Colonel for ...
>
They still get surprised. It's much the same in other former Warsaw
Pact countries.
================================================================================
- - Jeff Peterson j_pete@bellsouth.net
"An organization is like a tree full of monkeys, all on different levels. The
monkeys on the top look down and all they see are smiling faces, the monkeys
on the bottom look up and see nothing but assholes."
- Unknown (If you know, tell me.)
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
NOG #74 AirStar Nova 700
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 09:47:19 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
There is a good NPC in the JTAS Mother shom....She is the godmother :)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 09:54:26 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
I'm sure that local states in the Imperium especially those run by religious
groups might ban certain products such as recreational drugs or
alcohol...Some religions. The underworld might be involved there as
well....Another source that GM's might look at is the Orion Syndicate in LUG
TNG/DS9 game....I believe a new sourcebook for the DS9 game dealing with
Rogues is out here in the US...
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 15:02:19 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: 4 Bad Things About Traveller?
On Fri, 10 Mar 2000 17:54:28 EST, Ludowick@aol.com wrote:
>John Hamilton mentioned some areas he feels are weaknesses of
>Traveller:
>
>1. Lack of Cybertech, Nanotech, Genetech, & "Parahumans"
>2. Primary area of player action run by Empire.
>3. Random Chargen.
>4. Too much gear heading.
>
>1. If you are a Traveller referee, you have the ability to shape your
>Traveller Universe to be more in line with what you want from Science
>Fiction. If the rules don't spell out areas you want in your campaigns,
>add rules for these technologies. One of the best ways I've found to
>add rules for systems not originaly present in an RPG is to steal rules
>from other games I like. If you can't (or don't want to) come up with
>your own rules for cyber/nano/gene widgets, steal 'em from other games
>that have them. You will have to do some conversion rules, but that is
>usually easier than coming up with new rule systems from scratch. You
>can also go the opposite route and graft the Traveller systems you do
>like onto another game with a setting you prefer.
>
>If you are a player, you can make suggestions to your ref about some
>changes he could make to improve his campaign's style. Some refs will
>bounce you from the campaign, or scoff at your suggestions (make them
>politely), but others run more open games and like player input.
>
>Since you have many complaints about Trav's core assumptions, maybe you
>should play other SF RPGs. It is possible that Traveller can't model
>easily the SF universes you would like to portray/adventure in without
>too much work.
>
One of the beauties of GT is you have a wealth of GURPS supplements
and world books you can steal from. Cyber/nano/biotech rules already
exist and can be used as is or customized how you see fit. This is one
reason I shouted "WOO WHOO" when I found out about GT. After the
demise of GDW I didn't do much RPGing until a couple years ago when I
got into GURPS. I really enjoyed the flexibility of it. Then I found
GT and got back into Traveller in a big way. The only thing I find
lacking in GT is a random chargen.
================================================================================
- - Jeff Peterson j_pete@bellsouth.net
"An organization is like a tree full of monkeys, all on different levels. The
monkeys on the top look down and all they see are smiling faces, the monkeys
on the bottom look up and see nothing but assholes."
- Unknown (If you know, tell me.)
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
NOG #74 AirStar Nova 700
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 15:09:38 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: streamline TRAVELLER ??
On Fri, 10 Mar 2000 20:02:25 -0500, Jeff Zeitlin
wrote:
>On Fri, 10 Mar 2000 13:02:15 -0500 (EST), Volker Greimann
> wrote:
>
>> In fact, Traveller is a bit like LEGO.
>
>Now why do I have an image of a Traveller Universe made up of
>little plastic blocks that snap together?
So THATS how Pulver came up with the design for the Drakaran's
starships. ;-)
================================================================================
- - Jeff Peterson j_pete@bellsouth.net
"An organization is like a tree full of monkeys, all on different levels. The
monkeys on the top look down and all they see are smiling faces, the monkeys
on the bottom look up and see nothing but assholes."
- Unknown (If you know, tell me.)
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
NOG #74 AirStar Nova 700
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 10:23:54 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: (silly) Top 16 reasons Traveller sucks
In a message dated 3/10/00 5:17:31 PM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
> > 09. No giant, radioactive, fire-breathing, mutant dinosaurs.
How about the cybertech enhanced, T-rex, mounting internal twin FGMP-15 guns
in each forearm, currently living near Chernobyl. An escapee from Yaskoydray.
> > 03. Not enough humanoid aliens with putty on their foreheads.
> Nah, Traveller has plenty of them. Start with Darrians and Zhodani.
Thats towels on their head, not putty.....
Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 15:25:02 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: The Role of the E-7+
On Sat, 11 Mar 2000 02:44:46 -0500, "DaveShayne"
wrote:
>IMTU the military careers are highly stratified by class (As opposed to the
>socialist hippy weirdo no officer ranks scouts.) In a more egalitarian
>structure
>all personell would begin their careers as enlisted and the individuals who
>show the most ability will be promoted to command positions. (The current
>german army for instance.) In such an army fraternization rules are rather
>silly and counterproductive.
The Israeli army has a similar system IIRC. Their officers also tend
to lead from the front, creating more opportunities for advancement.
>As always YTUMV. (and I'm not positive on the details of the evolution of
>the officer/NCO distinction just the overall effect.)
Close enough.
================================================================================
- - Jeff Peterson j_pete@bellsouth.net
"An organization is like a tree full of monkeys, all on different levels. The
monkeys on the top look down and all they see are smiling faces, the monkeys
on the bottom look up and see nothing but assholes."
- Unknown (If you know, tell me.)
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
NOG #74 AirStar Nova 700
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 15:37:07 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: Yaskodray
On Fri, 10 Mar 2000 08:59:14 -0500, Walter Smith
wrote:
>I really, really hope I'm spelling grandfather's name right.
>
>Yaskodray
>(Sung to the tune of "Yesterday", by the Beatles)
>
>Yaskodray...all those funny little games you played.
>Uplifting doggies and kidnapping apes,
>What were you up to, Yaskodray?
Reminds me of another song:
Leprosy...All my parts are falling offa me.
Now I'm scared to even take a pee,
Ooh.. I've come down with leprosy!
================================================================================
- - Jeff Peterson j_pete@bellsouth.net
"An organization is like a tree full of monkeys, all on different levels. The
monkeys on the top look down and all they see are smiling faces, the monkeys
on the bottom look up and see nothing but assholes."
- Unknown (If you know, tell me.)
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
NOG #74 AirStar Nova 700
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 15:40:58 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: If I Had A P*irate
On Fri, 10 Mar 2000 11:25:54 -0500, Walter Smith
wrote:
>With apologies to quite a few folk singers, and anyone who is tired
>of the various Sunbeard debates on the TML...
>
>If I Had A Pirate
>(To the tune of, "If I Had A Hammer", sung by the Mommas and the
>Poppas and others)
When I read the subject I thought for sure that it would be to the
tune of "If I Were A Rich Man" from "Fiddler On The Roof."
================================================================================
- - Jeff Peterson j_pete@bellsouth.net
"An organization is like a tree full of monkeys, all on different levels. The
monkeys on the top look down and all they see are smiling faces, the monkeys
on the bottom look up and see nothing but assholes."
- Unknown (If you know, tell me.)
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
NOG #74 AirStar Nova 700
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 15:59:01 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: Imperial expansion to trailing
On Sat, 04 Mar 2000 12:33:23 -0800, "James W. Lindsay"
wrote:
>On Sat, 4 Mar 2000 15:12:56 +0000, SD Mooney wrote:
>
>> The Missouri Archive has a GIF map (by leroy?) showing the mains in
>> known space.
>
>It does? Can't seem to find it...
>
Did anyone answer this question? I tried to watch for it but it may
have been lost in all that "Traveller is Dead" crap.
================================================================================
- - Jeff Peterson j_pete@bellsouth.net
"An organization is like a tree full of monkeys, all on different levels. The
monkeys on the top look down and all they see are smiling faces, the monkeys
on the bottom look up and see nothing but assholes."
- Unknown (If you know, tell me.)
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
NOG #74 AirStar Nova 700
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 07:16:29
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Clif Tactics and Questions
At 02:49 AM 3/11/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>I have to ask a question. Was Leroy saying a bunch of crap about
>Christians, who also RP, being hypocrites?
That sounds more like D**c, He Who Must Not Be Named from rgfm.
Our Leroy just made odd claims about the TL of the Rule of Man, and other
odd claims. He also got very insulting very quickly.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 07:20:00
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Re Return of Cliff?
At 08:44 PM 3/11/2000 +1300, you wrote:
>I managed to be off-line during the Clif incident. I've been wondering
>what I've missed ever since.
A very juvenile, annoying pest.
>Leroy I was here for, more's the pity, though it was funny (sort of)
>watching him claim that GDW said things that all their published
>material didn't say.
But he'd been to Bill Keith's *house* man! He was a close personal friend
of people who worked at GDW!
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 07:41:05
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
At 12:29 AM 3/11/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>> >Fine, that will be $50.00.
>>
>> How much does that work out to per TML member who actually read
>> the post?
>
>Don't forget Rob's Brokers cut.
Not if I use my Bribery-3 to get the cargo under the table.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2051
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Traveller-digest Saturday, March 11 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2052
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
re: If I Had A P*rate
Re: Cool Deck Plan Software
John vs Clif vs Leroy
Re: Any Current Traveller Ship Design Contests?
Re: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
Re: New Zealand air farce
Random Chargen for GT (was: Re: 4 Bad Things....)
Re: New Zealand air farce
Re: (silly) Top 16 reasons Traveller sucks
Re: (silly) Top 16 reasons Traveller sucks
Re: John vs Clif vs Leroy
Modern Traveller
Re: New Zealand air farce
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: Chargen (long)
Re: John vs Clif vs Leroy
=?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_It=B4s_always_Aslan_and_Vargr_:-(?=
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: John vs Clif vs Leroy
Re: (silly) Top 16 reasons Traveller sucks
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 07:35:39
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
At 01:28 AM 3/11/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>Is there anything Imperium-wide that could create an Imperium-
>spanning Mafia Organization? Such an organization would perhaps be
>stronger than any MegaCorporation and would perhaps be stronger than
>the Imperium itself.
I'm not sure that any organized crime group could grow to that proportion.
Even on Earth, organized crime tends to be a very close-knit type of thing,
relying heavily on personal connections and loyalty.
I'm sure that there would be syndicates on important industrial worlds, and
these might range over a couple of subsectors.
What makes it fun is having several crime groups in the same area. Here in
SF we have Tongs, Vietnamese street gangs, honest to God Mafioso, yakuza..
all trying to control the same slices of the pie. It has led to a shadow
war of some proportions.
Organized crime is another way to justify piracy (yes folks, he's jumping
in with both feet again!) A syndicate that controls access to the port,
and has a few customs officials in their pocket, can land pirate vessels
at Regina with a clean bill of lading. Imagine a poor Free trader Captain,
who accepted help several years ago from the Irebamenagiin family, who know
finds that the favor is being called in, and he has to ambush a fellow
trader captain and take his cargo.
>The only item that is universally prohibited within the 3rd Imperium
>is Psionics. So, I would suggest that there could be an Imperium
>spanning Mafia organization and it would be focused on the supply of
>Psionics training/materials.
Actually, there are several universal bans.. slaves, biological warfare
agents, other weapons of mass destruction; but the big items aren't always
the most profitable.
One of the mob's biggest money makers is cigarettes. They smuggle
cigarettes into a states without paying the necessary taxes. They then sell
the cigarettes to distributors at a huge mark-up, but still below the cost
of the legal cigarettes. If you watch the movie "Beverly Hills Cop" this
is what Eddie Murphy's character is doing at the beginning of the film.
> Such activities would then finance
>there other illegal activities. Naturally, this organization would
>probably have close ties with the Zhodane. The Zhodane may use this
>organization as a type of intelligence organization (3rd column)
>within the 3rd Imperium.
The Zhodani would consider such a group to be almost hellish. I doubt that
there would be any sort of support. The Zhodani consider the average
Imperial to be a devious, bloodthirsty savage, what do you think they're
going to think of a Made Man?
- --
Duugirashir Irebamenagiin gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
Inquisitor Maximus, Reformed Canon Church of Sylea
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 11:00:22 -0500
From: Walt Smith
Subject: re: If I Had A P*rate
Pete wrote:
>When I read the subject I thought for sure that it would be to the
>tune of "If I Were A Rich Man" from "Fiddler On The Roof."
Nah, I'm saving that for "When Norris fought the Aslan".
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 12:16:03 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: Re: Cool Deck Plan Software
At 08:30 AM 3/6/00 +1100, you wrote:
>Hey dude,
>
>What's a good piece of Software to use to draw deck plans, preferably free
>or in Office?
>
>- Michael
What I recommend is neither... Check out the stuff I and Paul
Schrif have done with Campaign Cartographer 2. Excellent software with even
better support. You can see some examples on my website (see URL below).
--Michel
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
Michel R. Vaillancourt misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
ICQ # 31172292
"Reality Error in Progress....
....Do Not Adjust Your Penguin"
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
Cyberpunk: http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020
Traveller: http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller
AD&D: http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/adnd_eurania
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 08:30:35 -0800 (PST)
From: "David Clark
Subject: John vs Clif vs Leroy
With all the troll talk that's been going on lately, I've seen a few
references to Clif. While I agree that our friend John Hamilton isn't
half the troll Clif was, I can tell that a little confusion may have
been caused - some TML readers may not know who Clif was. Those who
laughed and cried with Clif may want to relive the experience. So for
their edification, I present... my Story of Clif.
Clif first posted to the TML last year during a thread on conspiracy
theories, and introduced himself in pure troll style. He had three
main claims:
1) He claimed that a lousy 1998 Will Smith/Gene Hackman movie entitled
"Enemy of the State" revealed the truth behind American government
activities.
2) He claimed that 'netiquite' was a conspiracy to deprive him of his
freedom of speech rights.
3) He claimed that he was being persecuted by the clearly fictional
"Internet Regulatory Commission".
Clif then launched into a series of ad hominum attacks against
everyone who responded to any of his posts. If I remember correctly,
his posts were uniformly off-topic; I don't ever remember an on-topic
post by the guy. The closest he ever came to appropriate posting were
a series of chapters of a fiction novel he was apparently writing that
he posted to the TML. Aside from embarrassingly bad writing, the only
interesting thing about this story was its peculiar fixation on sex.
It emerged during this period that he believed that the 1995
Brad Pitt/Harrison Ford movie "The Devil's Own" about an IRA fugitive
was based on his life.
After a particularily ugly series of insulting posts, Clif was
suspended from the TML for a month. When he returned, he was briefly
civil, but eventually lapsed into ugly insults. My personal favourite
Clifisms: He dismissed one detractor with the line "Pawns have pawns
opinions." and informed one poster "Your opinions aren't worth the
toilet paper they're smeared on." The calls for his expulsion reached
record levels, and he plainitively complained that the members of the
"Space: 1999" list were much more friendly to him! Finally, he
accused the TML members of being obsessed nerds, and fled the list,
barely ahead of Rob's stroke of obliteration.
To sum up: as interesting as Mr. Hamilton is, he's clearly no Clif.
Clif was the kind of troll that comes along so rarely as to make him
precious, and John would do well to study from his betters.
Now that I've contributed FAQ material, I'd like to hear about Leroy.
He came along just before I started lurking, and I missed him
completely. I understand he had some kind of rant on the subject of
Tech Levels during the Rule of Man. What's the scoop?
- --
| David "GrinderD" Clark | The universe is not only more boring |
| silenus@telus.net | than we imagine; it is more boring |
| | than we _can_ imagine. |
\----------------------------------------------------------------/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 10:43:38 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Any Current Traveller Ship Design Contests?
Frodo Baggins wrote:
>
> I found a neat but old website which calls itself
> THUDDD (Traveller Highly Unofficial Democratic Design
> Derby). It is located at
> http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/thuddd.html
>
> Unfortunately, it has been almost two years since it
> has been updated. The site apparently held contests
> for the best designed ship of a particular class, with
> the ship class changing each month.
>
> Does anyone know if there is a current Traveller
> website that does something like this?
There certainly is. THUDDD has moved to:
http://www.releasingthefire.com/thuddd/index.html
Note that the current THUDDD, coordingator, Jason Barnabas, is suffering
from a bout of RealWorld [tm] right now, so he might not be able to
update THUDDD for a few weeks. You can still enter THUDDD 11 (a 50-ton
modular cutter). **Due to SJG plans for a GT book on modular cutters,
only T4 designs will be accepted for THUDDD 11.** (Other upcoming
THUDDDs will allow GT designs.)
(PS: A word to the wise: Don't use all caps for things such as post
titles. This is the equivalent of shouting, and is considered rude.)
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 11:30:37 -0500
From: "Daniel Phelps"
Subject: Re: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
Was Written:
So why should there be megacorps with names in languages nobody
>understands?
The only reasons I can think of and they are admittedly weak ones is to try
and establish social/historical/political legitimacy via such a name as a
link to a legendary and mythic past. This would be done in lavish company
histories in the manner of the created genealogies of both 16th century and
earlier European royalty, some of who traced their ancestors back to Odin,
and the Emperors of Japan.
Does this seem reasonable to anyone else? I
Dan
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 11:45:03 -0500
From: "Josh W. Spencer"
Subject: Re: New Zealand air farce
Black ICE wrote:
>
> ObTrav: Besides Pepsi Cola (already mentioned in several posts), what
> current Terran corporations, if any, still exist in the various TUs
> represented on this list? Further, in which polity are any such
> corporations headquartered?
Please God, not McDonald's. Give us Jack in the Box instead. :) :)
- --
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)
VILANI ALIAS: Iashir Rekiinikimas Uiagam
Ypsilanti, Michigan, North America, Terra
Sol Subsector, Solomani Rim Sector
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 11:05:15 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Random Chargen for GT (was: Re: 4 Bad Things....)
Pete wrote:
>
<>
> >
> One of the beauties of GT is you have a wealth of GURPS supplements
> and world books you can steal from. Cyber/nano/biotech rules already
> exist and can be used as is or customized how you see fit. This is one
> reason I shouted "WOO WHOO" when I found out about GT. After the
> demise of GDW I didn't do much RPGing until a couple years ago when I
> got into GURPS. I really enjoyed the flexibility of it. Then I found
> GT and got back into Traveller in a big way. The only thing I find
> lacking in GT is a random chargen.
>
If you are a subscriber to _Pyramid_ (or, IIRC, now JTAS also [I haven't
subscribed yet]), you can check the archives for a random chargen system
for GT.
The article is "Some Classic Randomness", by Robert M. Brown.
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 11:56:43 -0500
From: "Sword-Worlder"
Subject: Re: New Zealand air farce
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Josh W. Spencer"
> > ObTrav: Besides Pepsi Cola (already mentioned in several posts), what
> > current Terran corporations, if any, still exist in the various TUs
> > represented on this list? Further, in which polity are any such
> > corporations headquartered?
>
> Please God, not McDonald's. Give us Jack in the Box instead. :) :)
Well, we know that Wendy's makes it, hence all the references to "Dave" by
ship's computers in Traveller games... right?
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 12:02:56 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: (silly) Top 16 reasons Traveller sucks
From:
> > > 03. Not enough humanoid aliens with putty on their foreheads.
> > Nah, Traveller has plenty of them. Start with Darrians and
> >Zhodani.
>
> Thats towels on their head, not putty.....
It's well known that in the early days of Traveller the GDW budget was
pretty small and they couldn't afford fancy latex appliances for the
Zhodani.
C'mon, why do you think that the Zhodani wear turbans anyway? It's obviously
to cover up their bizarre bony ridges.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 11:20:51 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: (silly) Top 16 reasons Traveller sucks
Chris Seamans wrote:
>
> From:
>
> > > > 03. Not enough humanoid aliens with putty on their foreheads.
> > > Nah, Traveller has plenty of them. Start with Darrians and
> > >Zhodani.
> >
> > Thats towels on their head, not putty.....
>
> It's well known that in the early days of Traveller the GDW budget was
> pretty small and they couldn't afford fancy latex appliances for the
> Zhodani.
>
> C'mon, why do you think that the Zhodani wear turbans anyway? It's obviously
> to cover up their bizarre bony ridges.
That explains a lot. _I_ always thought that "turbans" was a typo, that
the Zhos wear "turbines" on their heads, to generate additional psi
points.
Thanks for correcting me! ;-)
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 11:22:08 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: John vs Clif vs Leroy
"David Clark
>
> With all the troll talk that's been going on lately, I've seen a few
> references to Clif. While I agree that our friend John Hamilton isn't
> half the troll Clif was, I can tell that a little confusion may have
> been caused - some TML readers may not know who Clif was. Those who
> laughed and cried with Clif may want to relive the experience. So for
> their edification, I present... my Story of Clif.
<>
> Finally, he
> accused the TML members of being obsessed nerds, and fled the list,
> barely ahead of Rob's stroke of obliteration.
At which point, Jesse DeGraff commemorated him in art:
http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/ditzie.htm
Note the fourth picture....
Meanwhile, Mr. Hamilton, perhaps you should note the sixth picture.
With that, I shall cheerfully follow the advice of Netscape Messenger's
spell checker, and ignore Hamilton.
<>
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 12:17:32 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Modern Traveller
In a message dated 3/11/00 8:03:58 AM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
> >Since you have many complaints about Trav's core assumptions, maybe you
> >should play other SF RPGs. It is possible that Traveller can't model
> >easily the SF universes you would like to portray/adventure in without
> >too much work.
> >
> One of the beauties of GT is you have a wealth of GURPS supplements
> and world books you can steal from. Cyber/nano/biotech rules already
> exist and can be used as is or customized how you see fit. This is one
> reason I shouted "WOO WHOO" when I found out about GT. After the
> demise of GDW I didn't do much RPGing until a couple years ago when I
> got into GURPS. I really enjoyed the flexibility of it. Then I found
> GT and got back into Traveller in a big way. The only thing I find
> lacking in GT is a random chargen.
Cybertech already exists in Traveller, though not heavily used, as is some
biotech. Most of this was done in the MT rules set. Nanotech could be used
but needs limits as others have said, otherwise you need a different Universe
than the Imperium.
Others have used Shadowrun rules in Traveller as the two are somewhat
complentary. (if I got around to running a game again I'd be tempted to do
something similar myself).
Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 11:29:57 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: New Zealand air farce
Sword-Worlder wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Josh W. Spencer"
> > > ObTrav: Besides Pepsi Cola (already mentioned in several posts), what
> > > current Terran corporations, if any, still exist in the various TUs
> > > represented on this list? Further, in which polity are any such
> > > corporations headquartered?
> >
> > Please God, not McDonald's. Give us Jack in the Box instead. :) :)
>
> Well, we know that Wendy's makes it, hence all the references to "Dave" by
> ship's computers in Traveller games... right?
Meanwhile, back in August 1999, Doug mentioned that, in HTU, AAFES,
having followed the Terran Confederation's armed forces into space, has
evolved by the time of the 3I into a chain of four-star restaurants.
(BTW, Doug, does GT: Ground Forces include AAFES? If so, I can try to
convert my Field PX ship design to GT.)
(AAFES, for the uninitiated, stands for "Army and Air Force Exchange
System." AAFES runs PXes and BXes on Army and Air Force posts
respectively, as well as several on-post varieties of restaurants
[Frank's Franks, Anthony's Pizza, and a few others I have mercifully
forgotten] and the infamous "roach coaches.")
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 12:37:11 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
There was an article in the Washington Post a few days ago on Chinese gangs
smuggling cigarettes from Virginia to New York City....They buy tons of them
at Sams Club then drive them up Interstate 95 to New York and sell them
without paying state sales tax
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 11:49:18 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Chargen (long)
Rupert Boleyn wrote:
>
> On 10 Mar 00, at 18:38, Steve Daniels wrote:
<>
> >
> > Ok, so what the heck is a "Staff" officer anyway? Any officer who
> > is not the highest ranking officer on a given assignment/operation?
>
> They're all the dead-wood that is too connected to dispose of, and too
> useless to send to the front to get shot.
You must be referring to those officers who spend most of their careers
assigned to their military's equivalent of the Pentagon.
At the staff levels with which I am most familiar (battalion and
brigade), staff sections (officers and NCOs) are essential to the
functioning of the unit. If commanders had no staff, they would spend
so much time on personnel and logistics issues alone that they would
have no time left to _command_.
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 18:16:22 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Re: John vs Clif vs Leroy
At 17:30 11.03.00, you wrote:
>Now that I've contributed FAQ material, I'd like to hear about Leroy.
>He came along just before I started lurking, and I missed him
>completely. I understand he had some kind of rant on the subject of
>Tech Levels during the Rule of Man. What's the scoop?
AFAIK he claimed that the Rule of man was definately TL 16+, making it more
advanced than the Imperium is today. Not only in some areas, like biotech,
but in all areas. He backed up this claim by referring to certain inside
persons in GDW (no name was ever mentioned) who supported such claims.
Arguments against his theory were dismissed in a very annoying manner, and
very often prooved cause for personal attacks.
Other than that, i always got along nicely with him. He had a web-page
selling his used CT books and a got some pretty good deals from him. In
that respect, he was truly reliable and very considerate when i couldn´t
afford to pay right away due to some pecuniary problems back then (all´s
well now
;-)
He also had some very interesting and useful on topic posts from time to
time, as long as his pet theory wasn´t involved.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 18:58:26 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_It=B4s_always_Aslan_and_Vargr_:-(?=
At 23:02 10.03.00, you wrote:
>At 12:15 PM -0800 3/10/00, Ingo Heinscher wrote:
> >GT: Alien races is to come this year, IIRC. It will be about Hivers and
> >Droyne. You're not the only one waiting for more material about them. :)
>
>Alien Races 3, The Droyne, Hivers, and a couple others, just finished
>up playtesting....
- -Sure, and i am already looking forward to them. However, the old ones came
firrst, once more....
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 13:06:46 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
From: Robert Snyder
> Whenever something is prohibited but desired by the people there
> will be organizations devoted to fullfilling that desire. These
> organizations are the Mafia.
I would say that's the wrong way to look at it. I would instead make the
claim that there will always be illicit activities which are profitable and
it will in the best interests of the participating criminals to organize
these activities.
I think that envisioning organized crime as an outgrowth of desire will lead
to the creation of one trick ponies like the Columbian cartels and the
cocaine trade. While these are both certainly possible, most organized crime
syndicates in the U.S. are much more flexible than the Columbian cartels.
> Is there anything Imperium-wide that could create an Imperium-
> spanning Mafia Organization? Such an organization would perhaps
> be stronger than any MegaCorporation and would perhaps be
> stronger than the Imperium itself.
I doubt it. However, I doubt that any sort of organization could be
Imperium-spanning, including the Imperium itself. However, looking beyond my
junior heretic grumblings, I guess it's possible to imagine such a huge
syndicate for the sake of discussion.
The megacorps will always have a distinct advantage over such a syndicate.
The megacorps produce everything from coffee cups to complex starships, and
as such they will always be making an unbelievable amount of money. The
Imperium itself taxes 11,000+ worlds and has a massive military apparatus.
One major obstacle which would be problematic for an organized crime
syndicate on this scale would be their need for secrecy. They can't exist in
the daylight and as such any piss-ant subsector kingpin could break away
from the parent organization at any time.
Sure, the parent syndicate could try to get that territory back, but even
with fast travel and communication like we have in the real world this
proves extremely difficult to do. Personally, I suspect it would be more
rewarding to imagine a number of smaller organized crime syndicates working
with and / or against each other.
For example, the American mafia was constantly getting into trouble for
their unorthodox (by Sicilian standards) practice of entering into
partnerships with other organized crime groups, such as biker gangs, the
yakuza and various black gangs. Indeed, in Philadelphia right now there are
two mafia leaders and each has forged a strong alliance with an outside
group. One has enlisted the aid of the Pagans (a biker gang) and the other
has, if I remember correctly, forged an alliance with a confederation of
street gangs known as the JBM.
From what I understand the California mafia is working closely with the
yakuza. The Columbian cartels have also been dealing with the Russian mob,
and so on.
The "Godfather model" is attractive because it allows GMs to perform cheesy
Pacino, DeNiro and Brando imitations, but it would likely be much more
interesting to have a whole slew of smaller organizations locked in complex
power struggles.
> The only item that is universally prohibited within the 3rd Imperium
> is Psionics. So, I would suggest that there could be an Imperium
> spanning Mafia organization and it would be focused on the supply
> of Psionics training/materials. Such activities would then finance
> there other illegal activities.
Possibly, but this top-down approach is bizarre because the backbones of
most real world organized crime syndicates are more petty crimes.
Theft and the resale of stolen goods are at the base of just about every
organized crime syndicate in the world. Also popular, at least in the U.S.,
are illicit gambling operations. Even in places where gambling is legal
there are people who run non-sanctioned operations.
In high-tech societies fraud tends to become extremely profitable, and for
the most part the risk is low compared to other criminal activities.
Instead of imagining a giant organization with one agenda, imagine lots of
smaller operations which, when combined, end up being an impressive force.
When everyone, from the corner bookies on Regina up through the hired
assassins on Efate, are part of the same organization the profits rack up at
an astonishing rate.
> Naturally, this organization would probably have close ties with the
> Zhodane. The Zhodane may use this organization as a type of
> intelligence organization (3rd column) within the 3rd Imperium.
If things work the way you're saying they do, even the dumbest street hood
will realize that a Zhodani victory would decimate their power base. After
all, if the Zhodani start to win, then psionics are no longer illegal and no
longer as profitable.
> I see the Psionics Suppressions as creating an Imperium spanning
> Mafia organization. Before that time the Mafia would only have
> existed as many-many small organizations focused on the ilegal
> needs of individual worlds.
Every large criminal organization is made up of lots of little
organizations. That's the very nature of the beast.
> Is there anything in canon or commonsense that would prohibit what
> I am discussing above?
I don't know about canon, but in my opinion there are some problems with the
logic. Your own mileage may vary.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 13:13:41 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: John vs Clif vs Leroy
From: David Clark
> Clif first posted to the TML last year during a thread on conspiracy
> theories, and introduced himself in pure troll style. He had three
> main claims:
There was a period in there, between his "conspiracy theory phase" and his
"good posting phase" in which he went on to bash a couple of different
religions, but he seemed to really have it in for the Mormons if I remember
correctly. I think we had at least one Mormon on the list who didn't take
kindly to his insulting attacks.
One important thing to remember about Clif is that, when he calmed down, he
did go through a period when he really tried to be a good poster. However,
if anyone disagreed with the comments he made to the list he would explode
into a flurry of abuse.
I learned a lot from Clif, because I actually corresponded with him off of
the list. In many ways I felt bad for him. I don't think that he was
malicious, just completely incapable of dealing with people in a forum where
people might, and probably will, disagree with him.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 13:22:11 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: (silly) Top 16 reasons Traveller sucks
From: Black ICE
> That explains a lot. _I_ always thought that "turbans" was a typo,
> that the Zhos wear "turbines" on their heads, to generate additional
> psi points.
You know, I hadn't thought of it that way!
Speaking of turbines:
"Mission to Mars" saw a general release here in America last night. The New
York electric company was actually able to light the entire city with the
power generated by Stanley Kubrick spinning in his grave.
> Thanks for correcting me! ;-)
No, now that I think of it, you're right. It *is* indeed a misprint! :)
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2052
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Traveller-digest Saturday, March 11 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2053
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Tokaji Azsu 6 petunias
Re: Tokaji Azsu 6 petunias
Re: If I Had A P*irate
Re: Yaskodray
Re: The Yanks are Coming
Re: First post
Re: John vs Clif vs Leroy
Cthulhu, Yaskodray, and the Maya (was Re: Yaskodray)
Hi all
Re: (silly) Top 16 reasons Traveller sucks
Re: The Yanks are Coming
Artist wanted
ULTIMATE REASON TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Gashikan Empire?
Psionic/jump drives
[OT] New Zealand's Defence Spending
Re: Minor races and jump drive
Staff Officers
Re: New Zealand air force, Imperium attack craft, & Meritocracies
Re: New Zealand air force, Imperium attack craft, & Meritocracies
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 19:22:31 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Re: Tokaji Azsu 6 petunias
Loren K Wiseman wrote:
> Right now we are considering something along the lines of a Library
> Data file of every LD entry in canon, acessible through JTAS.
If you do, I will subscribe.
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
(who owns only T4 and GT material)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 19:56:21 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Re: Tokaji Azsu 6 petunias
At 19:22 11.03.00, you wrote:
>Loren K Wiseman wrote:
> > Right now we are considering something along the lines of a Library
> > Data file of every LD entry in canon, acessible through JTAS.
>
>If you do, I will subscribe.
Having it online only is kind of useless. I would love to have such a tool
directly on my computer so i could access it all the time, not just when
i´m online. If the interface looks good, i could even use it in play.
Imagine:
Letting the PC´s search through old Lib-Data files to find valuable
information.
It could have a built in feature that would allow adding new entries, and
sharing them with the internet. Updates would be available for download
each month with collected entries from other users, which can be plugged in
automatically.
I have seen something like this in the cheater´s database dlh (Dirty little
helper) at http://dlh.net.
Every month, new plugins are available, but the database is kept at home.
new entries are sent to the keepers, who enter them into the updates. It´s
pure genius, as you only need to download the new stuff.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 10:54:13 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: If I Had A P*irate
In mail you write:
> On Fri, 10 Mar 2000 11:25:54 -0500, Walter Smith
> wrote:
>
>>With apologies to quite a few folk singers, and anyone who is tired
>>of the various Sunbeard debates on the TML...
>>
>>If I Had A Pirate
>>(To the tune of, "If I Had A Hammer", sung by the Mommas and the
>>Poppas and others)
>
> When I read the subject I thought for sure that it would be to the
> tune of "If I Were A Rich Man" from "Fiddler On The Roof."
No, that one's reserved for "If I were a Noble..."
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 10:56:07 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Yaskodray
In mail you write:
> Glenn Goffin wrote:
>>Bravo! Bravo!
>
> Why thank you.
>
>>But I think Yaskoydray is the Droyne homeworld, not
>>Grandfather's name.
>
> Ah well, that's what I get for never picking up
> _Secret of the Ancients_. Did he have a name?
> (Rewrite, rewrite, rewrite...)
>
>>Also, it's Cthulhu, not Cthulu. The second "h" is not silent
>>(in my Traveller universe).
>
> Eh, it's a transliteration of the loathsome susurrations exhaled
> by abominations man was not meant to know, I'm sure we can forgive
> some spelling differences. ;-)
Especially considering that two of the variants Lovecraft himself used
in "the Call of Cthulhu" are Kthulhut and K'too'loo.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 10:50:37 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: The Yanks are Coming
In mail you write:
> At 11:51 10.03.00 -0800, Glenn Goffin wrote:
> land, Maine).
>>
>>It seems to me that it takes several generations in the
>>Northeast to become a Yankee, too. I was born there, and so was
>>my father and his father, but we're still not really Yankees.
>>To the Yankees, we're Russian Jewish immigrants.
>
> ROTFL
> That's America! Open for new citizens-to-be, anytime, anywhere.
Not really. In that part of the country, a farm may be the "Johnson
place" to all the locals, even though the Johnsons sold it 70 years ago.
After a century or so, they'll get around to calling it by the name of
the "new" family...
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 02:47:44 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: First post
On 03/11/00 at 12:20 AM, Dale Gyles said:
>Hello everyone! This is my first post anywhere, although I have been a
>member of of the TML since this last summer. I have been refereeing
>Traveller since 1980, but alas I have never been able to play a game. I
>have really enjoyed the TML. It has been an invaluable resource for my
>current campaign.
>Dale Gyles, in Great Falls, MT
Welcome Dale! Now that we've lured you out you'll have to tell us about your current campaign.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 13:04:03 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: John vs Clif vs Leroy
On 03/11/00 at 06:16 PM, Volker Greimann said:
>At 17:30 11.03.00, you wrote:
>>Now that I've contributed FAQ material, I'd like to hear about Leroy.
>>He came along just before I started lurking, and I missed him
>>completely. I understand he had some kind of rant on the subject of
>>Tech Levels during the Rule of Man. What's the scoop?
>AFAIK he claimed that the Rule of man was definately TL 16+, making it
>more advanced than the Imperium is today. Not only in some areas, like
>biotech, but in all areas. He backed up this claim by referring to
>certain inside persons in GDW (no name was ever mentioned) who supported
>such claims.
The main thing I remember is that he claimed "to have proof and I'll
post it when I get a little time." We waited and waited, in vain,
for said proof.
>He also had some very interesting and useful on topic posts from time to
>time, as long as his pet theory wasn t involved.
True, Leroy was okay generally. He just went a little wonky on that
subject and couldn't back off. I think there are just topics that
some people have to avoid, or at least just post their opinion and
back off...like me and the "damned half die", "every marine in
battledress", or "it ain't Traveller unless it's in the book." BTW,
I'm against, against *and* against, just in case anyone has
forgotten.
As for Clif, he *did* post a couple of posts that were worthwhile, I
remember saving them. One was a good entry for the Burrito File and
something else. I think it was a html character sheet, but I not
sure.
John Hamilton ,he hasn't acquired single name-fame yet ;-), hasn't
really contributed anything of merit yet. Personally, I think if he
would just stop replying to the "Top 4..." and associated threads
and find some positive topics to post about he could turn into a
productive list member. Write up a World, draft rules for parahuman
(??) or cyberpunked PC/NPCs, or post a few adventure nuggets
appropriate for roleplaying in the TU of his choice and we'd forgive
him *almost* anything.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 10:58:38 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Cthulhu, Yaskodray, and the Maya (was Re: Yaskodray)
In mail you write:
> On Fri, 10 Mar 2000 17:51:15 -0500 (EST), "Smith, Walter"
> wrote:
>
>>Glenn Goffin wrote:
>>>Bravo! Bravo!
>
>>Why thank you.
>
>>>But I think Yaskoydray is the Droyne homeworld, not
>>>Grandfather's name.
>
>>Ah well, that's what I get for never picking up
>>_Secret of the Ancients_. Did he have a name?
>>(Rewrite, rewrite, rewrite...)
>
> Unrewrite; Glenn is wrong - Grandpa Monster is Yaskoydray;
> Grandpa Monster's estate is Eskaloyt (or something close).
>
>>>Also, it's Cthulhu, not Cthulu. The second "h" is not silent
>>>(in my Traveller universe).
>
>>Eh, it's a transliteration of the loathsome susurrations exhaled
>>by abominations man was not meant to know, I'm sure we can forgive
>>some spelling differences. ;-)
>
> Cthulhu in 2000! Why settle for the _lesser_ evil?
Nah, assuming the Aztec's and May were on to something, the stars will
be right:
Friday, December 21, 2012 AD
The Julian day number is 2456283
The Mayan day is CAUAC (STORM)
The Mayan month is KANKIN (DOG OF THE UNDERWORLD)
Short count = 3 CAUAC 2 KANKIN
Long count = 12.19.19.17.19 3 CAUAC 2 KANKIN
(Last day of the 13th baktun of the current Long Count)
Saturday, December 22, 2012 AD
The Julian day number is 2456284
The Mayan day is AHAU (LORD)
The Mayan month is KANKIN (DOG OF THE UNDERWORLD)
Short count = 4 AHAU 3 KANKIN
Long count = 13.0.0.0.0 4 AHAU 3 KANKIN
(First day of 1st baktun of the *next* Long Count)
Note that the *present* Long Count started:
Aug 12, 3114 BC (Gregorian) Sep 7, 3114 (Julian)
There are other possibilities, as the Maya system has long periods than
the 13 baktuns of the Long count:
1 pictun = 20 baktun = 2,880,000 days = approx. 7885 years
1 calabtun = 20 pictun = 57,600,000 days = approx. 158,000 years
1 kinchiltun = 20 calabtun = 1,152,000,000 days = approx. 3 million years
1 alautun = 20 kinchiltun = 23,040,000,000 days = approx. 63 million years
Note that 1 pictun ago, man was developing civilization.
1 calabtun ago, GrandFather was active (allowing for uncertainties in
dates).
1 kinchiltun ago, Genus Homo seperated from the rest of the Primates
(ie man, chimp & gorilla became distanct species).
And 1 alautun ago, an asteroid wiped out the dinosaurs.
Coincidence? I think not!
Cthulhu Rlyeh fhtagn!
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 14:33:32 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: Hi all
I recently rejoined the List after being away a year..Ive GM'd and have
played traveller...I'm putting together a GT game set in the Marches
now....I was on before under mmckeown@hotmail.com...
Good to be back...
Mike
Washington DC area
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 14:16:40 -0500
From: Eric Freitas
Subject: Re: (silly) Top 16 reasons Traveller sucks
> "Mission to Mars" saw a general release here in America last night. The New
> York electric company was actually able to light the entire city with the
> power generated by Stanley Kubrick spinning in his grave.
Man, save yourself the money and DON'T go see this movie.
<><><><><><> SPOILER WARNING <><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Wasn't it kind of anti-climatic for Gary Sunise to get "pickled" and die in the
process? What was the end of this movie trying to say?
Why did they go to all the trouble of building this incrdible structure inside
the 'face', only to destroy it when the ship took off?
When will hollywood bother to make sure their biology is correct?
How can their flippin space suits rendezvous with another ship, when their
lander, doesn't have enough delta vee???? BS
The greenhouse sidewalls were flapping in the wind? Even if the pressure
inside the greenhouse was only 4 to 6 psi, the difference in pressure would
have been enough to keep the sidewalls taught as a drum.
If they had FTL tech, then why did they let a friggin rock hit their planet????
What is the point of killing the first people to try to answer you question????
and of course...
How do you rate a movie PG when it contains graphic images of people
being ripped to shreds?
and finally ...
When will Hollywood realize that all the special effects in the world won't
make up for a lack of story or plot?
I could go on, but, please don't put your significant other through the torture
of seeing this movie. You'll never hear the end of it, trust me...
- --
Eric & Diane Freitas
ericfrei@gte.net
- --------------------
Erikesirarii Danuuk
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 14:49:55 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: The Yanks are Coming
From: Leonard Erickson
> Not really. In that part of the country, a farm may be the "Johnson
> place" to all the locals, even though the Johnsons sold it 70 years ago.
>
> After a century or so, they'll get around to calling it by the name of
> the "new" family...
That's the way it is in rural areas, but in urban areas it's frequently the
case that there is still a strong identification with the original
nationality or ethnic group. A few blocks north and west of my house we have
"Little Vietnam", a few blocks north and east there's a huge Polish
population and "Polish" or "Polish-American" is added as a prefix on a large
number of signs in that area.
Similarly, directly across the street there's a bar called Quinlan's with a
huge green clover on the sign. It's quite common to see a variety of Irish
bumper stickers and see people who walk around with t-shirts proclaiming
various Irish-themed slogans. I've got an uncle and a truckload of cousins
who belong to the Ancient Order of the Hibernians. Hell, there was even an
Irish mob 'round these parts not that long ago.
For what it's worth, I've never in my life heard *anybody* 'round these
parts ever use the term yankee to refer to anything but baseball.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 14:06:36 -0600
From: Michael Maley
Subject: Artist wanted
I currently for an artist to do commissions for Traveller characters for
birthday gifts for my wife and a friend.
Can anyone give a referral?
darkhstarr
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 12:08:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Troy Bradley
Subject: ULTIMATE REASON TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
It was probably because of all the rudeness generated
by all you jerks on here. Sheesh, and this is how you
greet a new guy? What I was saying about Starfire,
which in reality is NOT a roleplaying game but a
strategic space combat game, is that the PLAYERS took
it over, REWORKED it, and SAVED it. Stop your bitchin
guys and get the BALLS and do something about it. They
are a hell of alot of guys on this List(more than most
others lists) who could help, but seeing the NASTY
responses from so many of you, they will probably
continue to lurk to avoid being mashed on. And you
will have missed out on a fantastic opportunity to
pool your resources and work together to build
something great. Too bad......Troy
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 14:25:31 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Gashikan Empire?
Troy Bradley wrote:
>
> New to this forum and was wondering if anyone has done
> anything with the Second Gashikan Empire? Any reply
> would be greatly appreciated! Troy
Never heard of it. What's the source?
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 14:17:55 -0600
From: Michael Maley
Subject: Psionic/jump drives
I just dug up another dusty box of campaign notes from my game. I found
somthing I came up with called the 'Irheaen Sydrome', named after an
Imperial scientist Eun Irheaen who postulated in year 15. He research
noted an abnormal amount of children born to jump drive engineers were
potential or latent psis. His thesis was that the time/space bending
effects of jump drives affected the genes that produced psionic
abilities. This led to efforts to better shielding on drives. I got
the concepts from some old SF books, A. B. Chandler in particular.
Anyone else had any thoughts on the effects of jump drives on sentients.
Hadn't noticed anything in any Traveller booklet I've read. I'm curious
to know.
darkhstarr
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 15:22:02 EST
From: GaryBartz@aol.com
Subject: [OT] New Zealand's Defence Spending
In a message dated 3/9/00 4:44:43 PM Eastern Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
<< We don't. The old government thought that they were a good deal (ie
they were dazzeled by US salesmen). What we need are new A4 Skyhawks
(or at least low flight-hour airframes and engines), or a more modern
equivilent - something that doesn't exist. Probably the closest thing
would be the FA-18, and they're much bigger and more expensive to buy
and run >>
The old A4s were great, they would take direct course corrections off the
ASRT system, and drop on our command tone. They also did a lot for as small
as they were.
The FA-18s were jack of all trades, master of none, but they worked pretty
good and that's good enough. The pilots were happy to get upgraded to it from
the A6s, but they never did as a good of a job bombing, and that's what I
guess you guys would ever use the planes for during peace keeping. The
weather thing was a problem, too.
The AV8B II plus was looking cool for forward ops and ground attack, as well
as the whole forward area paved road thing, but you guys need some big
choppers to support FARP points, and lots and lots of heavy trucks for
forward bases. It was SUPPOSED to be able to handle the weather and dark, I
never saw it do so but that don't mean much, the Marine Corps only tested any
of their gear a little and then babied it for a few years before actually
using it. It took two years to use the new DASC system off the back of the
truck like it was designed for, and the outer shelter box was actually an old
army hospital surgery room.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 13:56:00 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Minor races and jump drive
On Sat, 11 Mar 2000, Ingo Heinscher wrote:
> Has anyone another idea why the minor races are obviously less able in jump
> drive affairs? A hundred or more minor races, not one of them could develop
> a better jump drive than the early Vilani...
Because the races that 'invented' Jump Drive are simply members of the
Big Conspiracy. NO one but Grandfather invented Jump drive, all the others
merely copied it from ancient relics.
The Vilani invented the entire Major/minor dichotomy, and had ample reason
to perpetuate it, since, originally, it put them alone at the top of the
heap.
Of the Major races: Vilani, Zhodani, Aslan, Solomani, Vargr, Hiver and
K'kree, only one, the Hivers, ever invented a different sort of FTL drive,
a primitive stutter-warp-ish jump drive, a design they dropped like the
literal hot potato it was when they got ahold of a copy of the 'real' jump
drive.
Note that the Zhodani and Vilani were seeded on worlds that were
originally Ancient strongholds (Vilani dodged Ancient Warbots in their
earliest recorded history, and the Zhodani were nearly wiped out by an
Ancient bioweapon that they brought back from their first trips to their
moon, which contains an Ancient base.)
Note also that Pluto has been an interdicted world since the first
expedition to it. (coming, according to CT Timelines, any year now ;-) It
is speculated that Pluto contains an Ancient base. Given that Terra was
where Grandfather got his original genetic stocks, whatever is on Pluto
might be THE Ancient base...
The Vargr were manipulated far more by Grandfather than he did the human
stocks he seeded about, so it's entirely likely that their system was
seeded with a jump drive model, too.
The Aslan claim Major race status, but in reality, they got the Jump Drive
from a wrecked Solomani starship. That fact is a BIG clan secret, possibly
the biggest in the Heirate.
Note also that the Droyne are known for making the best 'hand crafted'
Jump drives in known space, highly desireable, even though they tend not
be a very mobile race anymore.
Note too, that another bit of 'Major' race specification are the Droyne
Coyns, which currently depict K'Kree, Droyne, Humaniti, Aslan, Vargr and
Hivers. Note that Relic coyns do NOT depict Aslan until _after_ they have
acquired Jump capabilities.
All of this points to the logical conclusion that _all_ jump drives in use
today are derived from Grandfather's original designs. For this to be at
all plausible, then even the Major races MUST have reverse engineered
their first drives from existing Ancient examples.
It also implies that Grandfather is still paying attention to our
Universe, and in fact, may well have not withdrawn to his pocket to
_escape_ our universe but to _remove_ himself and his influence from it,
so that he could continue to meddle with it in a controlled fashion.
Or maybe the universe is a Giant game of Pocket Empires, played by
Grandfather and some of his cronies on Saturday nights over pretzels and
beer and they're using a uniform ship design system :-)
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 19:56:33 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Staff Officers
>> Hum, well, the skills a Commanding Officer is exposed to *are*
>> different from those a Staff Officer.
>
>Ok, so what the heck is a "Staff" officer anyway? Any officer who
>is not the highest ranking officer on a given assignment/operation?
>
>bloo
>
Typically, you have a unit. You have two "Command types" at that unit
level, a Commanind Officer and a Deputy Commander. You also have sub-unit
commanders. These all are non-staff officers.
Staff officers are those officers who supervise all departments within the
unit. So, typically, you have:
Supply
Intelligence
Operations
Admin
Personell (only in really big units...)
Public Affairs (only in really big or well known or isolated units...)
Historian (only in really big units...)
Most of these jobs are supervising the NCO's who do the actual work. In
some units, there is an Executive Officer, who is in charge of the staff.
In the Army, and in many marine and air-force units, the exec is also the
deputy commander, and often the title used is the exec. A
non-deputy-commnader exec would be a staffer.
In an infantry unit, the CO is the tactical leader. There is seldom a
deputy commander, besides the Exec (XO). The staff suqad may be filled with
officers specialized in the areas, or may be infantry types cross trained.
The sub-unit commanders are not staff, typically, but commanders of the
sub-units.
The US naval model is somewhat different, as well. Naval model is:
Line Officers (Shipdrivers, navigators): These guys are in line to take
command.
Restricted Line (Flight and Engineering): These guys may be placed in
charge the by the CO, etc, but, long term, are not supposed to take over.
Staff (Lawyers, Doctors, Nurses, Admin, Public Affairs, and many, many
more): These guys are not supposed to take over command while any line or
restricted line types are aboard.
Historically, it has happened that the highest ranking officer aboard a
ship is a staffer... and the command did not fall to him, but to a lower
ranked (the highest of the) unrestricted line types.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 11:36:38 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: New Zealand air force, Imperium attack craft, & Meritocracies
In mail you write:
>>From: Laning
>>This intuitively rubs my grain the wrong way, also. On the
>>other hand, any land-based aerial threat to South Island would
>>have to come from Antarctica or the Tasmania region. Since NZ
>>is already basing its squadrons on Aussie soil, we can safely
>>discount that threat for political reasons. Likewise, it seems
>>safe to discount the Antarctican threat.
>
> No threat? Well, if Cthulhu wakes up, New Zealand doesn't have
> any defense anyway -- you'll just have to hope he goes to Africa
> or South America instead.
Big C is out in the Central Pacific. Nearest land is Polynesia.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 11:39:09 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: New Zealand air force, Imperium attack craft, & Meritocracies
In mail you write:
> By the way, B-52s are still very useful, and they bear that
> designation because they entered service in 1952.
No they don't and no they didn't.
B = Bomber
52 = 52nd "model" considered.
This is the rule for *all* military aircraft in the US. They "reset"
the numbers back in the 70s or 80s after getting up to F-111 (maybe
higher) and some fairly high number for the bombers.
The B-52 didn't enter service until the *late* 50s.
You can tell how unpopular "attack" (ie ground support) aircraft are
with the Air force when you consider that regular fighters got into the
low hundreds and attack craft (A-xx) only got up to A-10.
> Huh? I have to disagree. A-10s are designed primarily as tank busters,
> armored car busters, and bunker busters.
I expect that they could do quite a number on *ships* as well. Which
*could* be a problem if anybody ever attacks NZ.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2053
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Traveller-digest Saturday, March 11 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2054
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Life at pH 0.05....
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2050
Re Still going in the Late 3I
Re Vilani Life-spans
Things that make you go...hummm!
Mission to Mars
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2050
How many jump drives can fit on the head of a coyn?
Re Mission to Mars
Re: ULTIMATE REASON...
Re: John vs Clif vs Leroy
Moving on to GT ship creation (was Re: Random Chargen for GT )
RE:The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: Moving on to GT ship creation (was Re: Random Chargen for GT )
Re: Modern Traveller
Re: ULTIMATE REASON TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Re Return of Cliff?
Re: How many jump drives can fit on the head of a coyn?
Re: Moving on to GT ship creation (was Re: Random Chargen for GT )
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 11:22:50 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Life at pH 0.05....
In mail you write:
> from my daily paper (posted here since the public access goes away after
> a day)
>
> All I can say is "wow"
>
> Iron-devouring microbe blamed for
> toxic runoff
>
> WASHINGTON (AP) - A super bug that eats iron and can
> thrive in the equivalent of battery acid may be a major
> culprit in causing toxic metal and acid runoff from a
> California mine, researchers say.
>
> Katrina J. Edwards, a geomicrobiologist at Woods Hole
> Oceanographic Institution, said the previously unknown
> microbe lives on leftover iron-rich minerals and sulfide in a
> California mine. It gives off sulfuric acid, a chemical that
> leaches heavy metals and causes deadly concentrations of
> acid-metal pollution in mine runoff.
Seems to *me* that the bright thing to do is *encourage* the little
buggers, and process the runoff for the metal content!
They've been using bacterially aided "leaching" to process some
minerals for a while, and this puppy looks like a godsend. It'd do far
better than the current strains.
ObTrav: consider this, and similar bugs from other planets. They'd be
useful in mining, but *hell* if they got released in the wrong places.
ps. I have to admit to finding this bug kinda funny. It means that a
lot of the nasty evil mine runoff that various environmental groups are
complaining about may well be a matter of us having providing better
living conditions for an organism. :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 14:15:44 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
On Sat, 11 Mar 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> One of the mob's biggest money makers is cigarettes. They smuggle
> cigarettes into a states without paying the necessary taxes. They then sell
> the cigarettes to distributors at a huge mark-up, but still below the cost
> of the legal cigarettes. If you watch the movie "Beverly Hills Cop" this
> is what Eddie Murphy's character is doing at the beginning of the film.
>
And the Russian's biggest scam in the NY-NJ area some years ago was doing
the same with gasoline. Dunno if it's still going on on that scale.
Look at the carting industry there, too (aka garbage hauling). Notoriously
mobbed up. I saw a 60 Minutes segment on that a while back...some guys
trying to run a legitimate carting company; some local wiseguys kept
leaning on them. They went to the local DA, or mybe it was the US Justice
dept. Anyway these guys were asked if they wanted to provide evidence
against the mobsters. Offers of protection were made, and the guys wore
wires to a number of meetings.
Word got out, and the scumbags working _for_ the gummint reneged on their
offers of protection. The brothers were gunned down in their driveways.
Plus there's the old standbys: gambling, hookers and protection rackets.
The latter don't need _any_ illegal thing, merely a modicum of
organization, and small shop owners to terrorize.
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 08:23:01 +1100
From: "Katharine Whitchurch"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2050
> From: Ingo Heinscher
> Subject: Minor races and jump drive
>
> Has anyone another idea why the minor races are obviously less able in
jump
> drive affairs? A hundred or more minor races, not one of them could
develop
> a better jump drive than the early Vilani...
>
Ingo, I hate to break this to you, but as far as Jump Drive goes, the fix
was in from the start.
Every culture that developed jump drive had a carefully-seeded set of
almost-working, easy to copy examples in their home system.
Basically, modern jump drives are monkey-copies of Ancient artificacts up
until you start hitting about TL16-17. And Bad Things keep happening to
cultures that get to TL16-17 (eg Star Trigger, Black War Rebellion).
Ian Whitchurch
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 12:31:20 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Still going in the Late 3I
>ObTrav: Besides Pepsi Cola (already mentioned in several posts), what
>current Terran corporations, if any, still exist in the various TUs
>represented on this list? Further, in which polity are any such
>corporations headquartered?
>
IMTU: Jack Daniels, Guiness. Intel. IBM.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 12:39:29 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Vilani Life-spans
> I
>mean, 335 years, that's three times a Vilani's life span...
Using the V&V aging mods, I've had vilani who life to be 200+. Typically,
it should work out to about 125-150 years for pure vilani. (A +4 on aging
saves is mighty powerful.)
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 15:40:45 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Things that make you go...hummm!
On 03/12/00 at 08:23 AM, "Katharine Whitchurch" said:
Basically, modern jump drives are monkey-copies of Ancient artificacts up
>until you start hitting about TL16-17. And Bad Things keep happening to
>cultures that get to TL16-17 (eg Star Trigger, Black War Rebellion).
Ah! You've noticed that too! Makes you go...hummm? Doesn't it?
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 13:46:31 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Mission to Mars
On Sat, 11 Mar 2000 14:16:40 -0500, Eric Freitas wrote:
> > "Mission to Mars" saw a general release here in America last night. The New
> > York electric company was actually able to light the entire city with the
> > power generated by Stanley Kubrick spinning in his grave.
Oh come on now. It wasn't that bad-- at least the first hour or so :)
> Man, save yourself the money and DON'T go see this movie.
>
> <><><><><><> SPOILER WARNING <><><><><><><><><><><><><>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Wasn't it kind of anti-climatic for Gary Sunise to get "pickled" and die in the
> process? What was the end of this movie trying to say?
I don't think he was "pickled"-- more like that oxygenated fluid we first
saw in Abyss. Breathing that stuff would allow your body to withstand a
lot more Gee forces, would it not? And he didn't "die". He seemed fully
aware of what was going on around him as the ship prepped for departure.
I found it entirely anti-climatic right at the point in the movie where the
true climax should have been... the whole movie built up to an eventual
"First Contact" situation, which turned out to be w-a-y too brief and just
plain yucky. The alien looked like a great big Tele Tubbie! I don't know
how else to describe it :)
> Why did they go to all the trouble of building this incrdible structure inside
> the 'face', only to destroy it when the ship took off?
I dunno. Perhaps the ship was an integral part to the structure? It was
hollow, and maybe the breech in the ceiling just allowed the rest of the
structure to collapse?
What I wanna know is: why did they even leave a ship behind in the first
place? It seemed to me that the "alien" was more of a highly advanced
interactive AI hologram thingie than a living, breathing life form.
> When will hollywood bother to make sure their biology is correct?
Not sure what you mean here.
> How can their flippin space suits rendezvous with another ship, when their
> lander, doesn't have enough delta vee???? BS
This was a bit odd. Now unless the Rescue Ship and the orbiting thingie
intersected with more or less zero relative velocity, they would have had
to use a lot of "suit fuel" to slow down or speed up. Still, this scene
was nice to see on the big screen, since I can't remember a SciFi movie
that tried to be at least *this accurate* before.
> The greenhouse sidewalls were flapping in the wind? Even if the pressure
> inside the greenhouse was only 4 to 6 psi, the difference in pressure would
> have been enough to keep the sidewalls taught as a drum.
I don't think that was the sidewalls of the greenhouse itself. Watch
again... I think it was a *tarp* overtop of the greenhouse bubble that was
doing the actual flapping around.
> If they had FTL tech, then why did they let a friggin rock hit their planet????
We don't know that they had FTL tech. They very well could have been
sublight vessels and that fluid that Gary Sinese ended up emersed in could
have had stasis properties.
> What is the point of killing the first people to try to answer you question????
Things that happen often don't have "points". Maybe it was to protect the
structure-- and the knowledge therein-- from "aliens" so that it remained
intact for humanity.
I found the special effects regarding this part of the movie to be truly
grand. Hollywood still hasn't gotten over the unwritten (?) censorship
issue regarding how characters can appear to die on screen. 99% of the
time, males get chopped up, hacked to pieces, melted, or eaten alive in
plain view, while the gals usually get something a little bit less graphic
and/or painless.
A better question would be: why expose the entire structure to prying eyes
after receiving the wrong answer? That message could have been interpreted
in so many ways, and I seem to remember that they not only had to figure
out the riddle at the end, but translate the question via a number of
intermediary steps to get to the riddle.
> and of course...
>
> How do you rate a movie PG when it contains graphic images of people
> being ripped to shreds?
Only *one* guy got ripped to pieces and he was wearing a suit-- making it
less bloody. It was also *very* quick. However, not many movies show
people voluntarily asphyxiating themselves in cold vacuum :)
> and finally ...
>
> When will Hollywood realize that all the special effects in the world won't
> make up for a lack of story or plot?
The story was weak... true. However, the visual effects were spectacular
right up until just before they gained access to the alien structure. The
"impact" reenactment of Mars was nice, but the alien was absolutely
*hideous* (colours w-a-y too bright, shadows & textures too sharp in
comparison with the real life actors, the sappy feel-good-tear-jerker
expression on the alien's face, etc.). What's the name of the yellow tele
tubbie?
Two questions that popped up in my mind were:
1) would a fragmented shard of frozen oxygen/hydrogen ignited by the ship's
main engine really cause such an explosion in open space?
2) was the make-up effects on the asphyxiated character accurate?
> I could go on, but, please don't put your significant other through the torture
> of seeing this movie. You'll never hear the end of it, trust me...
If you must go see it, walk out of the movie the moment the three actors
enter the alien structure...
<><><><><><><><><><><><> END SPOILER WARNING <><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Barring Eric's criticism of this movie, it did have a few good points:
primarily, it wasn't your typical Hollywood "Armageddon" or "Super Nova"
rock video in outer space. The science was far more accurate than I have
seen in the past as well. It also tried to stay away from copying other
SciFi movies-- with the possible exception of 2001 (for a current SciFi
movie that is truly original, try catching "Pitch Black" before it leaves
the theatres).
Any more SciFi movies scheduled for this summer?
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Can I speak to someone higher up the food-chain please?
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 13:50:00 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2050
On Sun, 12 Mar 2000 08:23:01 +1100, Katharine Whitchurch wrote:
> > From: Ingo Heinscher
> > Subject: Minor races and jump drive
> >
>
>
> > Has anyone another idea why the minor races are obviously less able in
> jump
> > drive affairs? A hundred or more minor races, not one of them could
> develop
> > a better jump drive than the early Vilani...
> >
>
> Ingo, I hate to break this to you, but as far as Jump Drive goes, the fix
> was in from the start.
>
> Every culture that developed jump drive had a carefully-seeded set of
> almost-working, easy to copy examples in their home system.
>
> Basically, modern jump drives are monkey-copies of Ancient artificacts up
> until you start hitting about TL16-17. And Bad Things keep happening to
> cultures that get to TL16-17 (eg Star Trigger, Black War Rebellion).
Is this actually "canon"? I've always thought that it was nothing more
than a TML theory, although there is some evidence in the Droyne Coyns...
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Can I speak to someone higher up the food-chain please?
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 16:02:36 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: How many jump drives can fit on the head of a coyn?
On 03/11/00 at 01:50 PM, "James W. Lindsay" said:
>> Basically, modern jump drives are monkey-copies of Ancient artificacts up
>> until you start hitting about TL16-17. And Bad Things keep happening to
>> cultures that get to TL16-17 (eg Star Trigger, Black War Rebellion).
>Is this actually "canon"? I've always thought that it was nothing more
>than a TML theory, although there is some evidence in the Droyne Coyns...
Eris shakes his head and wanders off muttering to
himself..."Sometimes I wish I *had* a cannon!"
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 12:58:49 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Mission to Mars
>"Mission to Mars" saw a general release here in America last night. The New
>York electric company was actually able to light the entire city with the
>power generated by Stanley Kubrick spinning in his grave.
>
Speaking ot MtM: Great eye-candy, and decent tension-building. A fun ride.
The zero-G sequences are gorgeous, and look pretty good (Except for a few
jets bending upwards...). There is one seuqence where the camera continues
to revolve in directions different from the characters... beautiful,
disorienting, but simply incredible.
Also some great scenes inside a light spin-grav hab.
Basic plot synopsis: Mission to mars has "Bad Juju" occur on surface.
Rescue mission sent, including guy cut from mars program. Rescue team
figures out mystery with surviving initial team member.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 17:06:14 -0500
From: "Sword-Worlder"
Subject: Re: ULTIMATE REASON...
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Troy Bradley
I'm beginning to wonder if this isn't an organized attack on the TML.
People we have never heard of spouting off about who knows what, just to
hear themselves flame. We had a similar problem on the Traveller IRC
channel a short time ago. Very little apparent knowledge or interest in
Traveller, but plenty of free time to kibbitz and make snide, off-topic
remarks. I cast my vote in the Ignore catagory.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Colin Michael, WebDev
www.downport.com
The Traveller Domain
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 14:20:01 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: John vs Clif vs Leroy
On Sat, 11 Mar 2000 08:30:35 -0800 (PST), David Clark
> Now that I've contributed FAQ material, I'd like to hear about Leroy.
My memory is *terrible*, but one topic I do remember revolved around IG's
"Emperor's Vehicles". Most of the list agreed that the stats that were
included with each vehicle either made little sense, didn't jive with *any*
vehicle construction rules, or simply did not contain any real relative
info. Leroy countered by basically saying that the "pictures" were all
that were necessary and that if we would only use our imaginations, we
would be able to provide the necessary missing data ourselves.
I seem to recall making the point that Leroy would be the only person I
know who would buy a book containing nothing but blank pages :)
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Can I speak to someone higher up the food-chain please?
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 17:19:49 EST
From: TDRandall@aol.com
Subject: Moving on to GT ship creation (was Re: Random Chargen for GT )
I bought "First In" and "Far Trader" and was suitably impressed that I
decided to get the overall setting. I've yet to go through it in any detail,
but my flip-through of it left me a bit disappointed on the ship creation.
Did I overlook something important or were there really only TL 10 and TL 12
components, of a few types each?
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 17:24:31 -0500
From: "Terry Carlino"
Subject: RE:The Mafia in the Imperium ?
>Is there anything Imperium-wide that could create an Imperium-
>spanning Mafia Organization? Such an organization would perhaps be
>stronger than any MegaCorporation and would perhaps be stronger than
>the Imperium itself.
I humbly point you toward my own article in the 02/11/2000 issue of Pyramid
for a variant criminal organization, (actually 2 organizations) that fit
very well in the Traveller Universe (at least IMTU.)
Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 16:26:06 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Moving on to GT ship creation (was Re: Random Chargen for GT )
On 03/11/00 at 05:19 PM, TDRandall@aol.com said:
>I bought "First In" and "Far Trader" and was suitably impressed that I
>decided to get the overall setting. I've yet to go through it in any
>detail, but my flip-through of it left me a bit disappointed on the ship
>creation. Did I overlook something important or were there really only
>TL 10 and TL 12 components, of a few types each?
You only overlooked that SJG hasn't published GT:Starships yet.
When that is published there should be many more modules for the
plug it together ship design system..at least I *hope* that's the
case.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 17:31:58 EST
From: TDRandall@aol.com
Subject: Re: Modern Traveller
Kagehira had said
> Cybertech already exists in Traveller, though not heavily used, as is some
> biotech. Most of this was done in the MT rules set.
Which books were these? I only bought the core rules, but don't remember of
these. Point me to the titles I need to look for on eBay!
Tony
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 14:33:45 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: ULTIMATE REASON TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
On Sat, 11 Mar 2000 12:08:14 -0800 (PST), Troy Bradley wrote:
> It was probably because of all the rudeness generated
> by all you jerks on here.
Take a step back and look at the "rudeness" in your own post.
> Sheesh, and this is how you
> greet a new guy?
You could also ask, "Is this how a new guy introduces himself to a mailing
list?" And John has already stated, he is apparently not a "new guy".
> What I was saying about Starfire,
> which in reality is NOT a roleplaying game but a
> strategic space combat game, is that the PLAYERS took
> it over, REWORKED it, and SAVED it.
More power to 'em. Many people here have done the same thing. I know of
at least a dozen published authors, designers, and artists on this list--
and some of them have worked for next to nothing.
> Stop your bitchin
> guys and get the BALLS and do something about it. They
> are a hell of alot of guys on this List(more than most
> others lists) who could help, but seeing the NASTY
> responses from so many of you, they will probably
> continue to lurk to avoid being mashed on.
And people on this list will continue to "mash" on those individuals that
slam their game without providing any solutions. Please note that it
wasn't just the content of John's initial post that created problems... it
was the context as well. At least two listees replied to the initial post
with comments that were far from rude or hurtful, yet John retaliated with
no civility whatsoever.
> And you
> will have missed out on a fantastic opportunity to
> pool your resources and work together to build
> something great. Too bad......Troy
That is true, and maybe we would have given John the benefit of the doubt
if he hadn't been so rude right off the bat. This list (like many others)
has an unwritten protocol that goes something like: "Posts that go against
the grain of this mailing list may be considered hostile if you do not pick
your words carefully." And then there's a little thing known as
netiquette...
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Can I speak to someone higher up the food-chain please?
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 14:33:51 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: Re Return of Cliff?
On Sat, 11 Mar 2000 20:44:42 +1300, Rupert Boleyn wrote:
>
>
> On 10 Mar 00, at 17:20, SD Mooney wrote:
>
> > At 10:20 -0500 10/3/00, john hamilton wrote: >
> > > Obscure? Maybe to you, but not to most. > >Well,resorting to "secret
> > knowledge"?
> >
> > Clif isn't secret knowledge, not if you've been on the TML a year or so.
> > Clif was a really hot topic end Feb 99. I thought you'd been here a year?
>
> I managed to be off-line during the Clif incident. I've been wondering
> what I've missed ever since.
>
> Leroy I was here for, more's the pity, though it was funny (sort of)
> watching him claim that GDW said things that all their published
> material didn't say.
His opinion of "Emperor's Vehicles" (?) was priceless...
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Can I speak to someone higher up the food-chain please?
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 14:40:07 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: How many jump drives can fit on the head of a coyn?
On Sat, 11 Mar 2000 16:02:36 -0600, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
> On 03/11/00 at 01:50 PM, "James W. Lindsay" said:
>
> >> Basically, modern jump drives are monkey-copies of Ancient artificacts up
> >> until you start hitting about TL16-17. And Bad Things keep happening to
> >> cultures that get to TL16-17 (eg Star Trigger, Black War Rebellion).
>
> >Is this actually "canon"? I've always thought that it was nothing more
> >than a TML theory, although there is some evidence in the Droyne Coyns...
Actually, I was referring to the quoted material that you snipped...
> Eris shakes his head and wanders off muttering to
> himself..."Sometimes I wish I *had* a cannon!"
Gee Eris, I was just wondering :)
As for the answer to your subject line, there is the first obvious answer:
"X"-- where "X" equals the number of jump dimensions that exist (what does
canon say? 42? :)
Then again, the answer is probably zero, since a jump drive would
precipitate into normal space before it reached 100 coyn diameters distant.
It therefore could not "fit" in the head of a coyn :)
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Can I speak to someone higher up the food-chain please?
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 16:40:54 -0600
From: Stormhound
Subject: Re: Moving on to GT ship creation (was Re: Random Chargen for GT )
TDRandall@aol.com wrote:
> I bought "First In" and "Far Trader" and was suitably impressed that I
> decided to get the overall setting. I've yet to go through it in any detail,
> but my flip-through of it left me a bit disappointed on the ship creation.
> Did I overlook something important or were there really only TL 10 and TL 12
> components, of a few types each?
For what pages they had to work with, that isn't bad. I'm assuming you're
looking at the GURPS Traveller book, BTW. If you want more components, you'd
need to design them using GURPS Vehicles, with an eye toward the Traveller
constraints.
You might also want to look at the BITS site, where they have a free
downloadable .pdf file of their 101 Starships book; there should be plenty there
to keep you in ships while you're playing with your own designs.
http://www.bits.org.uk/ (Hit the Archive button to find the 101 Starships
download)
- --
Stormhound
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2054
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Traveller-digest Saturday, March 11 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2055
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Psionic/jump drives
DeLurking
Re: If I Had A P*rate
Re: Vilani history and mindset
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: DeLurking
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: DeLurking
Re: Vilani history and mindset
Re: Minor races and jump drive
Re: Drakarans -- canonical?
Re: Canon and chargen
Beverages Fit for Travellers (was: Re: DeLurking)
Re: Beverages Fit for Travellers (was: Re: DeLurking)
Re: First post
Re: Minor races and jump drive
RE:Staff Officers
Re: Canon and chargen
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 14:45:11 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: Psionic/jump drives
On Sat, 11 Mar 2000 14:17:55 -0600, Michael Maley wrote:
> I just dug up another dusty box of campaign notes from my game. I found
> somthing I came up with called the 'Irheaen Sydrome', named after an
> Imperial scientist Eun Irheaen who postulated in year 15. He research
> noted an abnormal amount of children born to jump drive engineers were
> potential or latent psis. His thesis was that the time/space bending
> effects of jump drives affected the genes that produced psionic
> abilities. This led to efforts to better shielding on drives. I got
> the concepts from some old SF books, A. B. Chandler in particular.
>
> Anyone else had any thoughts on the effects of jump drives on sentients.
> Hadn't noticed anything in any Traveller booklet I've read. I'm curious
> to know.
I like it. I would add that exposure to Jump-6 space has more of an effect
than exposure to Jump-1 space. That would help limit the exposure to only
the last few dozen generations or so, so that these adept psions don't
stick out in society like a sore thumb.
Why just engineers though? Or are you saying that it is exposure to an
operating jump drive and not jump space itself that is causing this genetic
mutation?
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Can I speak to someone higher up the food-chain please?
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 16:45:59 -0600
From: "Thomas Vickers"
Subject: DeLurking
. They
> are a hell of alot of guys on this List(more than most
> others lists) who could help, but seeing the NASTY
> responses from so many of you, they will probably
> continue to lurk to avoid being mashed on.
Strange, I lurk. Sometimes I even throw in comments, many of which are off
topic. I even remember being irate over silly things someone said, took it
off list, and was able to share some knowledge with the parties involved.
Mashed on? Never, and I very sensative.
As for Nasty responses, heck, seems like yours is the nastiest one I have
seen in a long time. Even the folks who disagree with me don't reply like
that.
Perhaps I will become even more strict in my lurking and do in depth
research into the "mashing" of ideas and opinions that are put forth on this
list.
I bet T5 comes out before I can get enough evidence to support the theory of
mashing :)
TV
- ------------------------
"Never apologize, never explain."
Hunter S. Thompson
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 22:51:25 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: If I Had A P*rate
On Sat, 11 Mar 2000 11:00:22 -0500, Walt Smith
wrote:
>Pete wrote:
>>When I read the subject I thought for sure that it would be to the
>>tune of "If I Were A Rich Man" from "Fiddler On The Roof."
>
>Nah, I'm saving that for "When Norris fought the Aslan".
>
>
I will wait impatiently. ;-)
- - Jeff Peterson (j_pete@bellsouth.net)
"Everything has an end, except sausages, which have two." -Viking Proverb
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
NOG #74 AirStar Nova 700
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 14:56:13 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: Vilani history and mindset
On Sat, 11 Mar 2000 08:39:04 +0100, Ingo Heinscher wrote:
> At 22:42 10.03.00 -0800, James W. Lindsay wrote:
>
> >> Actually I was thinking/writing about the most efficient way to build an
> >> empire. A purely technical statement, culture was excluded here (though not
> >> expressively, sorry for that). Efficiency is somewhat easier to extrapolate
> >> than history.
> >
> >I don't think so. Walk into a boardroom and you'll hear ten different
> >suggestions on how to get a job done. In each of those ten minds exists a
> >method which seems to be the most efficient-- to them at least. Different
> >people think in different ways, put emphasis on different aspects of both
> >the problem and the solution. This, in turn, affects how they approach
> >solving a particular problem. Since the Vilani canonically *think*
> >differently than Solomani, Zhodani, etc., it stands to reason that they
> >might not agree on what exactly is the most "efficient" for their people.
>
> You mean, a Vilani would probably argue that slow and careful expansion is
> far safer and thus better to build a stable empire than expanding from the
> beginning?
Possibly, but only a real Vilani would be able to explain it to you :)
> What kind of simulation rules must they use for computer program
> to prove their way?
Dunno, but it is probably safe to assume that the same "slow & methodical"
approach that they have in real life (theirs, not ours) would somehow exist
in their computer models. Kinda makes you want to wonder what Klingon
software would look like to a Terran programmer...
> >I suppose I should apologize too.
>
>
> Apologize... accepted, Captain Needa.
>
>
> :-)
So *that* explains this nasty throat infection I have :/
> >Thankfully, others have provided a possible non-canon reason why jump-1
> >exploration coreward and trailing was either difficult or impossible.
> >Personally, while I like this idea, I think that the Vilani mindset is even
> >more important. To paraphrase your typical Alien Module: "aliens aren't
> >just humans in rubber suits... they *think* differently too". A good
> >referee has the ability to make the Zhodani or Vilani appear to be quite
> >alien in comparison to our own greedy balkanized way of thinking (ie:
> >Solomani).
>
> On that I aggree. Still IMO there are some things even in "soft science"
> (like economy sciences) that are fairly predictable. For example, Vilani
> must have know from the beginning that their technology would leak across
> the borders of their "market zone".
This could be partially accredited to their bureaucracy. IOW, someone may
have noticed, but didn't bother saying anything for fear of losing their
job. Something similar happened in the Solomani Rim, IIRC :)
> But at first, they didn't bother for
> some reason. (Obviously those other aliens and minor human races weren't
> too smart. Otherwise they would have developed and built j-2 or even J-3
> ships much earlier. Hey, that gives me an idea for another thread...)
Jump-1 is TL9, while Jump-2 is TL11. According to Traveller's tech level
equivalency table, quite a number of years separate the two.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Can I speak to someone higher up the food-chain please?
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 18:04:44 -0500
From: Steve Daniels
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Robert Snyder wrote:
> Whenever something is prohibited but desired by the people there will
> be organizations devoted to fullfilling that desire. These
> organizations are the Mafia.
I have two on this one:
1) "The Mafia is a myth. Its a racist stereotype spread against those of
us
from Sicilian-Solomani ancestry. So fuggid about it. Sure, we Sicilian-
Solomani have a strong sense of familia, and we like our pasta, and sure,
we have lots of guns, but who doesn't these days? We just protect
our families and our people."
2) Estegarriba was Sicilian. Cleon was Sicilian. Strephon is Sicilian.
You do the math.
> The only item that is universally prohibited within the 3rd Imperium
> is Psionics.
Slavery and Nukes are two other areas. But I think your assumption that
something be universally prohibited for a mafia to be interested is a
faulty
one. Plus, the old standards are still there: Racketeering (Protection
schemes),
Loan sharking, Gambling, Smuggling, Prostitution. Each world of the
Imperium has different laws and that means secure bases of operation.
Nothing has to be universally prohibited. Most activities of US LCN
(La Cosa Nostra) operations were covered by state, not federal, laws.
Over time, because of the inter-state operation of these organizations
(there is more than one mafia), and things like prohibition, the feds
took
more and more authority to deal with them. Things like murder aren't
federal crimes; they are state crimes.
So, you have to decide what the terrain of 3I law is in the first place.
Since the 3I is governed by human, and not by laws, much of what
modern LCN operations do wouldn't even be illegal.
> So, I would suggest that there could be an Imperium
> spanning Mafia organization and it would be focused on the supply of
> Psionics training/materials.
We have the Templars for that too. And SuSAG. ;-)
> Such activities would then finance
> there other illegal activities. Naturally, this organization would
> probably have close ties with the Zhodane. The Zhodane may use this
> organization as a type of intelligence organization (3rd column)
> within the 3rd Imperium.
I totally disagree. "Those dirty Zhos! They read your mind and stuff.
So you can't even go about your own business. You can't do business
when you can't even con the other guy. I mean, how are we supposed
to negotiate. And besides, I'm a patriotic guy. Soldiers is where we
do most of our business. Anyone who thinks we would sell out our
boys for those stinkin' Zhos should be careful what he says."
> I see the Psionics Suppressions as creating an Imperium spanning
> Mafia organization. Before that time the Mafia would only have
> existed as many-many small organizations focused on the ilegal needs
> of individual worlds.
Rule of Man would spread _a_ Solomani-type Mafia, should one exist,
hypothetic like, way before those Suppressors.
> Is there anything in canon or commonsense that would prohibit what I
> am discussing above?
>
> So, who is THE GODFATHER--The most powerful person/family in the 3rd
> Imperium ?
Who ever is closest to you. The Imperium is too big for one. Even
Don Corleone (sp?) was only the Godfather of New York.
> Could the political structure of the Imperium be closely
> tied to the mafia like it is in 20th/21st century Terra Italy ?
That is essentially what the peerage is, minus the garlic.
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 17:06:48 -0600
From: "Thomas Vickers"
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Naturally, this organization would
> > probably have close ties with the Zhodane. The Zhodane may use this
organization as a type of intelligence organization (3rd column) within the
3rd Imperium.
This I gotta disagree with. Look at the help the "Mafia" provided to the US
government during WWII. They ensured the safe and continued operation of
shipyards and wharfs in their areas, without nasty things like strikes and
spies.
If anything else, the Mafia would stand to make a nice profit helping the 3I
do its job :)
For example: There is a nasty war going on versus the Zhos. The local Mafia
makes sure that the orbital shipyards stay productive and clean of Zho
agents. In return, custom's officials and such might turn a blind eye to a
few unauthorized shipments or seizures of spacecraft ;)
TV
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 17:14:42 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: DeLurking
Thomas Vickers wrote:
>
<>
> Perhaps I will become even more strict in my lurking and do in depth
> research into the "mashing" of ideas and opinions that are put forth on this
> list.
> I bet T5 comes out before I can get enough evidence to support the theory of
> mashing :)
Try this Web site for more information on "mashing":
http://www.jackdaniels.com/oldno7/tourthree.asp
\~/ ;-)
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 18:14:02 -0500
From: Steve Daniels
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
> What makes it fun is having several crime groups in the same area. Here in
> SF we have Tongs, Vietnamese street gangs, honest to God Mafioso, yakuza..
> all trying to control the same slices of the pie. It has led to a shadow
> war of some proportions.
Hehe. You know why the mafia isn't really established in Los
Angeles don't you? The police beat them to it. :-P
[snip]
> The Zhodani would consider such a group to be almost hellish. I doubt that
> there would be any sort of support. The Zhodani consider the average
> Imperial to be a devious, bloodthirsty savage, what do you think they're
> going to think of a Made Man?
LOL. "I got your Psi-Shield right here, pally."
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 17:14:00 -0600
From: "Thomas Vickers"
Subject: Re: DeLurking
Damn you evil Jack Daniel's supporters.
Good men drink Wild Turkey and laugh at people like you.
When will you ever learn ;)
TV
- ------------------------
"Never apologize, never explain."
Hunter S. Thompson
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 18:15:44 -0500
From: Walt Smith
Subject: Re: Vilani history and mindset
James W. Lindsay wrote:
>Kinda makes you want to wonder what Klingon software would look like to
>a Terran programmer...
How did that go...
Things overheard from a group of Klingon programmers
(From various sources on the Internet)
Defensive programming? Never! Klingon programs are always on the offense.
Yes, offensive programming is what we do best.
Specifications are for the weak and timid!
This machine is GAGH! I need dual Pentium processors if I am to do battle
with this code!
You cannot really appreciate Dilbert unless you've read it in the original
Klingon.
Indentation?! - I will show you how to indent when I indent your skull!
What is this talk of 'release'? Klingons do not make software 'releases'.
Our software 'escapes' leaving a bloody trail of designers and quality
assurance people in its wake.
Klingon function calls do not have 'parameters' - they have 'arguments' --
and they ALWAYS WIN THEM.
Debugging? Klingons do not debug. Our software does not coddle the weak.
Bugs are good for building character in the user.
I have challenged the entire ISO-9000 quality assurance team to a Bat-Leth
contest on the holodeck. They will not concern us again.
A TRUE Klingon Warrior does not comment his code!
By filing this bug report you have challenged the honor of my family.
Prepare to die!
You question the worthiness of my code? I should kill you where you stand!
Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it
and let them flee like the dogs they are!
Our competitors are without honor!
Python? That is for children. A Klingon Warrior uses only machine code,
keyed in on the front panel switches in raw binary.
Klingon programs don't do accountancy. For that, you need a Ferengi.
Klingon multitasking systems do not support "time-sharing". When a Klingon
program wants to run, it challenges the scheduler in hand-to-hand combat
and owns the machine.
Perhaps it IS a good day to die! I say we ship it!
My program has just dumped Stova Core!
Behold, the keyboard of Kalis! The greatest Klingon code warrior that ever
lived!
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 15:22:32 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: Minor races and jump drive
On Sat, 11 Mar 2000 13:56:00 -0700 (MST), Bruce Johnson wrote:
[snip]
> The Aslan claim Major race status, but in reality, they got the Jump Drive
> from a wrecked Solomani starship. That fact is a BIG clan secret, possibly
> the biggest in the Heirate.
[snip]
> Note too, that another bit of 'Major' race specification are the Droyne
> Coyns, which currently depict K'Kree, Droyne, Humaniti, Aslan, Vargr and
> Hivers. Note that Relic coyns do NOT depict Aslan until _after_ they have
> acquired Jump capabilities.
So what is the TML's opinion on this?
I am familiar with the Major/Minor Race status of the Aslan, and that they
had apparently backward-engineered a Solomani jump drive. This might
explain why they aren't on the original coyns (?). But why the change in
the new coyn set?
Is Grandfather still tampering with the coyns, and if so, why would he make
this change if he never planted jump technology in the Aslan home system
(and therefore never intended for the Aslan to be on the original coyns?
For that matter, what about the other races that have backward-engineered
their own jump drives (the Geonee from V&V in particular, since their
design apparently came from a ship of "unknown design")?
Hopefully the upcoming Alien Races #3 will shed some light on this...
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Can I speak to someone higher up the food-chain please?
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 00:30:43 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen
Subject: Re: Drakarans -- canonical?
Ingo Heinscher writes:
>At 10:25 10.03.00 -0700, Bruce Johnson wrote:
>>Are they appearing in an official, licenced Traveller supplement?
>>
>>Guess that settles the 'canon' issue ;-)
>
>:-)
>Somewhat. Didn't think of that. It's just that they appeared as "canonical"
>for the Space Master universe before... this kind of irritated me. (and
>still does)
Lots of different universes have humans. The space Master universe and the
Traveller universe happens both to have Drakarans. What's the problem with
that? As long as it's not the SAME Drakarans just as it's not the same
humans.
Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"Papazian appeared, disguised as a human being. He
checked quickly to make sure that his head was on
right. 'Nose and toes the same way goes,' he re-
minded himself, and that was how it was.
All his systems were go. His psyche was soldered
firmly to his pineal gland, and he even had a small
soul powered by flashlight batteries."
"Tripout" by Robert Sheckley
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 00:38:35 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen
Subject: Re: Canon and chargen
Eris Reddoch writes:
>I'm closer to the way Erwin does it. Because I'm interested in having more
>skill levels, I don't set the limit at INT+EDU. Instead I'd use INT+EDU+SOC
>(Frankly, I prefer Charisma for that role and let Social Class be outside of
>most skill determinations). So, really I use INT+EDU+CHA (but not everyone
>uses Charisma) Now, instead of 2 to 30 with an avg of ~15, you get 3 to 45
>with an avg of ~ 23.
I too wanted more skill levels to be possible. I didn't think the official
system provided for skilled old-timers. Furthermore, it bothered me that
strong, agile guys were unable to learn to fight their way out of a paper
bag just because they were dumb and uneducated. It made one very common
stereotype impossible. So I divided skills into three groups: mental,
physical, and practical (practical skills were things like mechanic).
Characters could have up to STR+DEX physical skills and up to INT+EDU mental
skills. There was a total skill limit of STR+DEX+INT+EDU (in other words,
practical skills could be charged against either limit).
It worked for me.
Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
events based on the individual situation."
_76 Patrons_, p. 8
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 17:58:59 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Beverages Fit for Travellers (was: Re: DeLurking)
Thomas Vickers wrote:
>
> Damn you evil Jack Daniel's supporters.
> Good men drink Wild Turkey and laugh at people like you.
> When will you ever learn ;)
Actually, when it comes to whiskies, I prefer Maker's Mark bourbon
whisky. However, I received a bottle of Jack Daniel's Tennessee whiskey
for Christmas, which brought it to mind as an example of "mashing."
http://www.makersmark.com/
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 18:07:00 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Beverages Fit for Travellers (was: Re: DeLurking)
You know, now that I think about it, a GURPS Traveller/Callahan's
Crosstime Saloon crossover seems awfully inviting....
Here's one more Web resource for those wanting to research this topic:
http://www.klindrup.dk/whisky/
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 17:14:39 -0700
From: Dale Gyles
Subject: Re: First post
>Welcome Dale! Now that we've lured you out you'll have to tell us about
your current campaign.
>
>Eris
>
My current campaign is set in the Spinward Marches in the Year 630 when
Arbellatra becomes empress. I used the Beltstrike module, replacing the
Shionthy system with the Bowman system, changed/deleted all date references
and history that hadn't happened yet, and changed the max tech level
available to 13.
The players start out crewing a type A2 far trader, chartered by an
annoying playboy noble, who is actually an uncover agent for Imperial Naval
Intelligence. They believe their real job is to make a profit and keep him
out of trouble. The noble is completely useless and clueless, as far as
they know.
The noble's real mission is to investigate rumors about Admiral Koenig's
loyalty, and to get the real story on the destruction of Admiral Denisov's
squadron. (Regent Arbellatra keeps a close eye on potential rebels.)
Of course, they do a little prospecting, meet Lucky Yo (And Kill Him!)!!,
tour Koenig's Rock before it becomes Koenig's Rock, etc.
I tried not to depart too much from canon, but I just thought that would
be a neat mileau to run an adventure in.
My six regular players are all veteran gamers, but only one had ever
played Traveller before. I am using the T4 rules set for chargen and task
resolution.
The campaign is quite popular. We play every other week because I am 42
and my enthusiasm/stamina for RPG's is not as strong as it was in my youth.
Besides, our club does board & miniature games also. (Blue Max, Jutland,
Empires in Arms, Battlefleet Gothic, Tactics II, Panzerblitz, etc.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dale Gyles
Black Eagle, MT
gyles@mtn-webtech.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 18:34:33 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Minor races and jump drive
On 03/11/00 at 03:22 PM, "James W. Lindsay" said:
>I am familiar with the Major/Minor Race status of the Aslan, and that
>they had apparently backward-engineered a Solomani jump drive. This
>might explain why they aren't on the original coyns (?). But why the
>change in the new coyn set?
>Is Grandfather still tampering with the coyns, and if so, why would he
>make this change if he never planted jump technology in the Aslan home
>system (and therefore never intended for the Aslan to be on the original
>coyns? For that matter, what about the other races that have
>backward-engineered their own jump drives (the Geonee from V&V in
>particular, since their design apparently came from a ship of "unknown
>design")?
James, do you really want that written in stone? I say, leave it
open for Ref interputation.
>Hopefully the upcoming Alien Races #3 will shed some light on this...
...and I hope it doesn't.
It's fine to give suggested options, such as:
1. The Major races *all* independently invented their jump drives,
and Grandfather (or some other agent) changed the coyns after the
Aslan made their discovery.
2. The Major races *all* independently invented their jump drives,
and the coyns psionically linked with jump space and change whenever
a new reace discovers jump space.
3. As 1, but the Aslan did not invent jump drive.
4. As 2, but the Asland did not invent jump dirve.
5. None of the major races invented jump drives, otherwise as in 1.
6. None of the major races invented jump drives, otherwise as in 2.
But leave as much mystery as possible to the Ref.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 19:36:49 -0500
From: "Terry Carlino"
Subject: RE:Staff Officers
The US naval model is somewhat different, as well. Naval model is:
>Line Officers (Shipdrivers, navigators): These guys are in line to take
>command.
>Restricted Line (Flight and Engineering): These guys may be placed in
>charge the by the CO, etc, but, long term, are not supposed to take over.
>Staff (Lawyers, Doctors, Nurses, Admin, Public Affairs, and many, many
>more): These guys are not supposed to take over command while any line or
>restricted line types are aboard.
>
>Historically, it has happened that the highest ranking officer aboard a
>ship is a staffer... and the command did not fall to him, but to a lower
>ranked (the highest of the) unrestricted line types.
Today most flying officers and engineering officers are Unrestricted Line
Officers. Many officers destined for command serve as Engineering Officers
at sometime in their careers. All Executive and Commanding Officers on
Nuclear Carriers must be pilots AND graduates of Navy Nuclear Power School
and have served in an engineering position sometime in their career, as well
as having been Commanding Officer of a so-called deep water command,
typically an auxiliary ship of some type.
Restricted Line Officers are limited to a few fields. Most are officers who
washed out of the URL positions, typically failed pilots or ship handlers
who could not achieve qualifications as deck officer or command duty
officer. Many of these officers serve in specialized fields that they have a
better aptitude for. (After all, not everyone is competent to lead men in
battle, not even the kind of battle fought by modern naval vessels.) In the
past, before they were allowed into command at sea positions, females filled
many of these positions in communications and technology . (Amazing Grace,
of COBOL fame was one.)
These officer should not be confused with the Limited Duty Officers, who are
generally former enlisted persons, who fill positions in the Engineering and
aviation communities (though generally not as pilots.)
Staff Officers fill most of the positions named above, except that Public
Affairs officers are either Restricted Line Officers or Limited Duty
Officers.
Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 18:45:42 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Canon and chargen
On 03/12/00 at 12:38 AM, Hans Rancke-Madsen said:
>I too wanted more skill levels to be possible. I didn't think the
>official system provided for skilled old-timers. Furthermore, it bothered
>me that strong, agile guys were unable to learn to fight their way out of
>a paper bag just because they were dumb and uneducated. It made one very
>common stereotype impossible. So I divided skills into three groups:
>mental, physical, and practical (practical skills were things like
>mechanic). Characters could have up to STR+DEX physical skills and up to
>INT+EDU mental skills. There was a total skill limit of STR+DEX+INT+EDU
>(in other words, practical skills could be charged against either limit).
Makes sense Hans, and not a *lot* more overhead. Well, once each
skill is classified, not much more overhead.
In T4, TNE (and MT, I think..don't have my book out) each skill had
an Attribute listed as controlling it. What if we let the specifed
Attribute *really* control those skills and you could have skill
levels up to the limit of its controlling Attribute?
I think that *would* work if each of the Attributes' contribution to
valuable skills was balanced. As it stands now, too few skills are
controlled by Con/End, and too many by Int/Edu. It's also a lot more
overhead.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2055
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Traveller-digest Saturday, March 11 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2056
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Trollbusters?
Re: First post
Re: Vilani history and mindset
Re: Minor races and jump drive
Re: ULTIMATE REASON TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Minor races and jump drive
Re: ULTIMATE REASON TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Leroy/Secret Knowledge
Re: Minor races and jump drive
Re: Minor races and jump drive
rude responses (was ULTIMATE REASON TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
Re: Yanks are coming
Jump Drives
Re: Psionic/jump drives
Re: Minor races and jump drive
Re: Traveller-digest blah blubs
Re: Psionic/jump drives
THUDDD Help
Re: Minor races and jump drive
Re: Leroy/Secret Knowledge
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: One Traveller=One Formula...do something about it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 17:02:18 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Trollbusters?
>From: john hamilton
>Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
>
>> Yeah, but it's *how* he did it-- and how he
>> *continues* to look down upon
>> people that reply to his posts.
>
>I'm not looking down to other people.This is reserved
>to snoby people who ,for example,think that a new
>member of the list has to wait to say his opinion
>about the games weaknesses.
I for one (or do you prefer "we"? :> ) don't care if it's your first
post or your thousandth, but if that's your standard of discourse -
politeness, content, and intelligibility, then please, lurk more.
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 18:55:43 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: First post
On 03/11/00 at 05:14 PM, Dale Gyles said:
Wow, sounds like a lot of fun!
> My six regular players are all veteran gamers, but only one had ever
>played Traveller before. I am using the T4 rules set for chargen and
>task resolution.
What do you, and your veterans, think of T4's rules?
(I'm not looking to start *that* discussion again, everybody, so
don't all jump in. I'd just like to hear Dale's opinion seeing
as he's had some recent experience using that ruleset.)
> The campaign is quite popular. We play every other week because I am 42
>and my enthusiasm/stamina for RPG's is not as strong as it was in my
>youth.
I know what you mean! My enthusiasm is just as high, but my
stamina isn't.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 20:19:02 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Vilani history and mindset
From: Walt Smith
> What is this talk of 'release'? Klingons do not make software
> 'releases'. Our software 'escapes' leaving a bloody trail of
> designers and quality assurance people in its wake.
For some reason I always bust a gut when I get to this line. It never gets
any less humorous. :)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 17:24:46 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: Minor races and jump drive
On Sat, 11 Mar 2000 18:34:33 -0600, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
> On 03/11/00 at 03:22 PM, "James W. Lindsay" said:
>
> >I am familiar with the Major/Minor Race status of the Aslan, and that
> >they had apparently backward-engineered a Solomani jump drive. This
> >might explain why they aren't on the original coyns (?). But why the
> >change in the new coyn set?
>
> >Is Grandfather still tampering with the coyns, and if so, why would he
> >make this change if he never planted jump technology in the Aslan home
> >system (and therefore never intended for the Aslan to be on the original
> >coyns? For that matter, what about the other races that have
> >backward-engineered their own jump drives (the Geonee from V&V in
> >particular, since their design apparently came from a ship of "unknown
> >design")?
>
> James, do you really want that written in stone? I say, leave it
> open for Ref interputation.
I never said that. I asked for opinions. It sounded like Bruce was
paraphrasing canon . According to the CT Droyne module, I can find
no reference to the "Relic Coyns" that Bruce mentioned. I am obviously
missing something ("Secrets of the Ancients", maybe?).
> >Hopefully the upcoming Alien Races #3 will shed some light on this...
>
> ...and I hope it doesn't.
I knew you were going to say that :)
> It's fine to give suggested options, such as:
> 2. The Major races *all* independently invented their jump drives,
> and the coyns psionically linked with jump space and change whenever
> a new reace discovers jump space.
Doesn't cover the canonical mention of the Geonee's possession of a
jump drive backward-engineered from an "unknown ship".
All I asked (in not so many words) is why the coyns changed after the Aslan
apparently "discovered" jump space, what brought this about, and why this
has not occurred with other minor races that have "discovered" jump space
:)
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Can I speak to someone higher up the food-chain please?
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 20:27:21 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: ULTIMATE REASON TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
From: James W. Lindsay
> Take a step back and look at the "rudeness" in your own post.
Actually, James, his first post wasn't really rude. He simply said that he
likes Traveller but it's in need of a rehaul. Other long time members of the
TML *were* rather obnoxious to him, however.
> > Sheesh, and this is how you
> > greet a new guy?
>
> You could also ask, "Is this how a new guy introduces himself to a
> mailing list?" And John has already stated, he is apparently not a
> "new guy".
Actually, no. He's talking about himself. People did "greet" him shamefully
and rudely. This is a case where the TML is indeed in the wrong. This has
nothing to do with John Hamilton's posts, but with this Troy fellow's
earlier post.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 03:02:31 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen
Subject: Re: Minor races and jump drive
James W. Lindsay writes:
>On Sat, 11 Mar 2000 13:56:00 -0700 (MST), Bruce Johnson wrote:
>
>>The Aslan claim Major race status, but in reality, they got the Jump Drive
>>from a wrecked Solomani starship. That fact is a BIG clan secret, possibly
>>the biggest in the Heirate.
>
>[snip]
>
>>Note too, that another bit of 'Major' race specification are the Droyne
>>Coyns, which currently depict K'Kree, Droyne, Humaniti, Aslan, Vargr and
>>Hivers. Note that Relic coyns do NOT depict Aslan until _after_ they have
>>acquired Jump capabilities.
Bruce forgets to mention that there is there's no canonical evidence that
the other races except Humaniti appeared on the coyns before they acquired
jump capacity. And even the evidence about the Human is open to
interpretation (A Human appears on a coyn owned by a Chirper on Vanejen,
which suggests that it dates from the -75,000 coyn set, but that is assuming
that Grandfather gave up on the Vanejan Chirpers after one try; he may have
kept trying, in which case the coyn could be from the most recent attempt
and be only a couple of thousand years old). There is evidence that
Grandfather changed the coyns over the years.
>I am familiar with the Major/Minor Race status of the Aslan, and that they
>had apparently backward-engineered a Solomani jump drive. This might
>explain why they aren't on the original coyns (?). But why the change in
>the new coyn set?
>
>Is Grandfather still tampering with the coyns, and if so, why would he make
>this change if he never planted jump technology in the Aslan home system
>(and therefore never intended for the Aslan to be on the original coyns?
My take: Grandfather's most recent excursion from his pocket universe was
around -1000 [I'm POSITIVE that I've seen this date in a canonical source,
but as I can't find it again, I may be mistaken. Can anyone help me located
this quote if it exists?]. At that time he noted that a new major race had
appeared and covered a sizable slice of the area where Droyne and Chirpers
lived. And showed every sign of expanding. Consequently he took a trip
round to his pets and introduced a new coyn. (The coyns don't depict major
races; they depict races that the Droyne are likely to interact with on a
major scale).
>For that matter, what about the other races that have backward-engineered
>their own jump drives (the Geonee from V&V in particular, since their
>design apparently came from a ship of "unknown design")?
The Geonee are humans, so they are accomodated by the Humaniti coyn. Other
races have been too localized to rate a spot in the coyn set (Remember,
every time Grandpop introduces a new coyn, another has to go).
Eris writes:
>1. The Major races *all* independently invented their jump drives,
>and Grandfather (or some other agent) changed the coyns after the
>Aslan made their discovery.
Bravo, Eris. Got it in one!
>But leave as much mystery as possible to the Ref.
All possible mystery IS left to the ref. Anything he wants to change, he can.
It's not necessary to leave something vague and undefined in order to give
him that option. All you accomplish by that it to guarantee that EVERYBODY
will have to do all the work themselves if they want a coherent and
consistent background. Why not let the official game publishers provide ONE
version that is coherent and consistent from the start? If you don't like
it, you're no worse off than if it had remained vague and undefined. You
still have to provide the coherence yourself. But those who likes it get
consistency as a bonus. Woo hoo!
Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"Hellfire!" erupted Thomas Covenant, his raw, self-inflicted nostrils
clenching in white hot, stoical anguish while his gaunt, compulsory visage
knotted with fey misery. His lungs were clogged with ruin. A hot, gelid,
fulvous tide of self-accusation dinned in his ear: _leper outcast unclean_...
To release the analystic refulgence, the wild magic of the white gold ring
he wore, could conceivable shatter the Arch of Time, utterly destroy the
Land, and put a premature, preterite end to the plot!
Yet what other way was there? The argute notion pierced his mind like a
jerid. Only thus could the unambergrised malison of Lord Foul be aneled.
Only thus. Hellfire and damnation!
At that point he was struck by a swift, sapid lucubration.
--- "Play it again, Frodo" by Dave Langford
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 19:09:28 -0800
From: "J. Paul Sanders"
Subject: Re: ULTIMATE REASON TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
At 08:27 PM 3/11/00 -0500, you wrote:
>From: James W. Lindsay <jlindsay@home.com>
>
>
>> Take a step back and look at the "rudeness" in yourown post.
>
>Actually, James, his first post wasn't really rude. He simply saidthat he
>likes Traveller but it's in need of a rehaul. Other long time membersof the
>TML *were* rather obnoxious to him, however.
You noticed that too?
Paul
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 21:03:47 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Leroy/Secret Knowledge
Doug Berry writes:
<< I was involved in a rgfm flamewar (isn't that redundant?) with an idiot who
claimed that trying to write for SJG was "stupid" because they only let
their close friends and cronies in. >>
Let me guess -- the proof of this statement was that his proposal for GURPS
Teletubbies was turned down? Or had he ever bothered to make an inquiry? Ort
is this based on something a friend's cousin's dentist's college roomate's
drinking buddy's brother told him?
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 20:13:16 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Minor races and jump drive
On 03/11/00 at 05:24 PM, "James W. Lindsay" said:
>All I asked (in not so many words) is why the coyns changed after the
>Aslan apparently "discovered" jump space, what brought this about, and
>why this has not occurred with other minor races that have "discovered"
>jump space :)
That's what is still a mystery.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 20:19:50 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Minor races and jump drive
On 03/12/00 at 03:02 AM, Hans Rancke-Madsen said:
>>1. The Major races *all* independently invented their jump drives,
>>and Grandfather (or some other agent) changed the coyns after the
>>Aslan made their discovery.
>Bravo, Eris. Got it in one!
Are you *sure* about that Hans?
IMTU, there may...or may not...even *be* a "Grandfather", and the origin of the "Ancients" is still very much open to debate.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 21:34:44 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: rude responses (was ULTIMATE REASON TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
Troy Bradley exclaims:
>It was probably because of all the rudeness generated
>by all you jerks on here. Sheesh, and this is how you
>greet a new guy? What I was saying about Starfire,
>which in reality is NOT a roleplaying game but a
>strategic space combat game, is that the PLAYERS took
>it over, REWORKED it, and SAVED it. Stop your bitchin
Which edition would this be? Starfire's great strength
has always been that actual combat was simple enough
that you could hang a good campaign system around it
and not bog down in the small stuff, while at the same
time still have a tactical game with individual and
distinct ships. In the tactical spaceship games, it sits
at one end of the scale while SFB sits at the other.
Full Thrust, BFG, and Battle Rider are close to the SF end,
while RL:Leviathan and Silent Death sit about in the middle
and Brilliant Lances and B5 Wars are up near the SFB end.
Greatest? No. Oldest surviving? Pretty close. Best for
Grand Strategic uses? Near Victory. Cheap to get into?
A winner, no question (along with FT and BR). Good for
dovetailing into an RPG? Eh.
That last point is going to be a big one on this list, since
Traveller IS an RPG. I have fond memories of Starfire, but
I don't usually think of it and Traveller together...
GypsyComet
TML Old One ("Great? Eh. Maybe.")
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 21:59:04 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Yanks are coming
In a message dated 00-03-11 16:10:40 EST, you write:
<< > ROTFL
> That's America! Open for new citizens-to-be, anytime, anywhere.
Not really. In that part of the country, a farm may be the "Johnson
place" to all the locals, even though the Johnsons sold it 70 years ago.
After a century or so, they'll get around to calling it by the name of
the "new" family... >>
Or you will be given directions to "turn left at the barn" that burned down
in in 1956. Tell me this doesn't happen in rural areas everywhere . . . not
just in the USA.
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 21:59:34 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Jump Drives
<< Ingo, I hate to break this to you, but as far as Jump Drive goes, the fix
was in from the start.
Every culture that developed jump drive had a carefully-seeded set of
almost-working, easy to copy examples in their home system. >>
This is not in keeping with my feelings on the matter. YMMV.
Loren Wiseman
gdwgames@aol.com
lkw@io.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 22:07:36 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin
Subject: Re: Psionic/jump drives
On Sat, 11 Mar 2000 19:47:48 -0500 (EST), "James W. Lindsay"
wrote:
>On Sat, 11 Mar 2000 14:17:55 -0600, Michael Maley wrote:
>> I just dug up another dusty box of campaign notes from my game. I found
>> somthing I came up with called the 'Irheaen Sydrome', named after an
>> Imperial scientist Eun Irheaen who postulated in year 15. He research
>> noted an abnormal amount of children born to jump drive engineers were
>> potential or latent psis. His thesis was that the time/space bending
>> effects of jump drives affected the genes that produced psionic
>> abilities. This led to efforts to better shielding on drives. I got
>> the concepts from some old SF books, A. B. Chandler in particular.
>> Anyone else had any thoughts on the effects of jump drives on sentients.
>> Hadn't noticed anything in any Traveller booklet I've read. I'm curious
>> to know.
>I like it. I would add that exposure to Jump-6 space has more of an effect
>than exposure to Jump-1 space. That would help limit the exposure to only
>the last few dozen generations or so, so that these adept psions don't
>stick out in society like a sore thumb.
>Why just engineers though? Or are you saying that it is exposure to an
>operating jump drive and not jump space itself that is causing this genetic
>mutation?
Expand on it - the study was done on engineers only, and never
followed up with the logical study of ship crews and "frequent
flyers". Jump sickness is also a manifestation of this; it
represents an attempt by the brain to 'rationalize' the 'failed
activation' of the psionic centers of the brain. In a small
number of people, the activation is actually successful.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 13:29:33 +1100
From: "AB"
Subject: Re: Minor races and jump drive
Ingo Heinscher wrote:
Has anyone another idea why the minor races are obviously less able in jump
drive affairs? A hundred or more minor races, not one of them could develop
a better jump drive than the early Vilani...
Some other possibilities:
(1) Yaskodray has the Patent.
Already discussed by others on the list.
(2) May I point out, Captain, that the chances of success are 4.7x10E25 to
1.
Jump drive is such a fiendishly complicated thing that the chances of it
being discovered and moved to implementation are minuscule. It requires an
extremely rare combination of opportunity, pre-existing knowledge,
inspiration and intellect for a sophont to make all the connections of ideas
required and develop the theory that it just doesn't happen much.
(3) Zuchai Crystals? Never heard of them.
On some worlds or star systems Zuchai Crystals simply don't exist. As they
are a vital component in jump drive, no Zuchai Crystals means no drive.
They can be synthesised, but then you need that technology before you can
develop jump technology (and if Zuchai Crystals have no other purpose than
use in jump drives, why would you synthesise them in the first place?)
(4) We don't do that here.
The Traveller universe background suggests that massive technological
advancement is the exception rather than the rule. While the Vilani culture
took this to extremes, the general progression of tech levels is very slow.
The early spaceflight Solomani are obviously the exception. Therefore most
cultures simply never have the inclination, opportunity or wherewithal to
develop the technology. Maybe it has something to do with the Yaskodray's
experiments that killed the spark of initiative in so many of these
cultures? Or perhaps the conditions on Terra are unique in promoting
massive technological advancement relative to the rest of the races in
Charted Space.
(5) It's all a plot!
Hiver Gods/ Yaskodray/ Cthulhu/ the Vilani Shadow Emperor's handmaidens/ The
Baddies from the core/ Mysterious entities in jump space/ Penguins with
mutant powers/ Supernatural beings/ Men In Black/ etc actively prevent
research into jump technology.
(6) A little from column A and a little from column B:
Probably some mixture of all of these. Stir and flavour mix until you find
something that works for your traveller universe.
- -AB
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 23:08:18 -0500
From: "DaveShayne"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest blah blubs
>Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 10:05:17 +0100
>From: Ingo Heinscher
>Subject: Traveller-digest blah blubs
>
>I _hate_ the "traveller digest XYZA BCDE" posting's titles. I took me over
>a month on this list to find out that there is sometimes anything
>interesting in those threads.
>
>So, _please_, whoever is it who makes up those subject lines: Make it to
>say more about the content of your postings. That will save a lot of time
>for those who are not interested, and will attract others who might be
>interested.
>
>Thank you.
I have to appologize on this score as lately it's been my fault a lot of the
time.
I subscribe to the digest version. It's easier for me to read five or six
digests a day than to wade through a hundred or so individual emails.
Responding to a
post requires replying to the full digest (then cuting out the twenty or
thirty other
posts on the digest.) Sometimes I forget to change the subject line to the
subject of the individual post I'm refering to. I try not to forget but
mistakes
hapen. So again let me appologize for my ineptitude at cut and paste.
David Shayne
+++++++++++++++++++++
Veni, Vidi, Vacca.
I came, I saw, I had a cow
- Bart Caeser
+++++++++++++++++++++
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 22:05:04 -0600
From: Stormhound
Subject: Re: Psionic/jump drives
Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
> Jump sickness is also a manifestation of this; it
> represents an attempt by the brain to 'rationalize' the 'failed
> activation' of the psionic centers of the brain. In a small
> number of people, the activation is actually successful.
Begging your pardon...jump sickness? My brain is floundering on that...is
this something discussed somewhere in canon, or a general YMMV topic of
discussion?
Not that I have anything against it...I rather like the notion, in fact.
I'd just appreciate being pointed toward somewhere with more detail. :)
- --
Stormhound
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 20:10:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Frodo Baggins
Subject: THUDDD Help
Thanks for the info for the new THUDDD page. I am
very glad to see it is still going. One question. I
see that "Classic" Traveller designs are acceptable
(except for the one contest mentioned), but when I
checked the THUDDD site for previous contests, I could
not find a single LBB 2 and High Guard submission. Am
I reading the THUDDD page correctly, could someone
submit a design right out of LLB2?
I played twenty years ago in college and never learned
any system other than the original Traveller. With
the growth of the web, I like to stay in touch with
the game I enjoyed so much.
I find it kind of funny that the Classic Traveller
books are being reissued now, just as T5 is about to
come out. I wish Traveller didn't splinter into
different variations. I don't think the board game of
"Monopoly" would have achieved it's success if it
tried to reinvent itself every few years.
Sam
P.S. Sorry about the CAPS; it's an old military habit
of always using caps in the subject line.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 23:18:03 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Minor races and jump drive
From: Ingo Heinscher
> Hi!
>
> I was asking myself why the hundreds of minor races in OTU never
> developed (or improved) the jump drive technology on their own.
> Especially in the years(centuries!) before the Vilani Consolidation
> wars, at least one or two races should have been able to invent
> jump-2 or even j-3. Given the fact that most of these races were
> initially _not_ under cultural influence by the tech-cautious Vilani,
> they should have done a bit of their own research, especially during
> the COnsolidation wars.
Nearly every culture on earth *could* have developed firearms technology
pretty early, but they didn't. Babbage designed, but never built, a funky
19th century computer. The U.S. landed on the moon and nobody's gone back
yet in what, 30 years or so?
An easy fix is to make the claim that jump drives require research and
thinking on a completely different paradigm. My impression is that jump
research is a rough thing for a scientist to wrap his or her head around.
Even once a society is given jump technology, there's nothing to say that
they can just start tinkering with it like an internal combustion engine.
We are dealing with a technology which can punch a ship into *another
dimension*, after all. Imagine what would happen if a real world research
facility were to begin to do research into jump-drive technology and you
heard about it tommorow. How many scientists do you think would immediately
claim that the research was bunk?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 17:23:08 +1300
From: a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
Subject: Re: Leroy/Secret Knowledge
On 11 Mar 00, at 21:03, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> Let me guess -- the proof of this statement was that his proposal for GURPS
> Teletubbies was turned down?
GURPS Teletubbies, then GURPS Barney, GURPS Jim Henson. Be afraid,
be very afraid
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 20:36:53 -0800
From: Justice Hypercleats
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Via electronic medium on 3/8/00 7:53 AM, gridlore@pop.mindspring.com wrote:
> Oh give it up. You fired, we returned fire, and if all you can do is make
> snide little comments like that one I suggest you run down your colors.
> --
>
> Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
>
See that guys? That's corsair talk, I knew piracy was a valid facet of
Traveller! Yo ho ho and a fusion gun, shiver me timbers and spit in my eye!
;)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 20:39:23 -0800
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
Subject: Re: One Traveller=One Formula...do something about it
Via electronic medium on 3/8/00 7:54 AM, kafka47@hotmail.com wrote:
> When I refereed, I would
> often indicate with code words or keywords to indicate dice rolls and allow
> the players to interpet their rolls into their role. If they failed they
> ought to incorporate this into the narrative. Made for better playing then
> endless consulting of tables and charts.
This is an interesting idea, would you mind discussing code words used and
standard protocols? If it is too non-Trav, you could post it to A Gamer's
Life.
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2056
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Traveller-digest Sunday, March 12 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2057
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
John Colicos Condolences Page Now Available
Re: Psionic/jump drives
Re: Dune
Re: THUDDD Help
Re: Psionic/jump drives
Re: THUDDD Help
Re: Modern Traveller
chargen
Re: Gashikan Empire?
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000 - Don't blame me for the subject line
Robots & stuff (was Re: Clif Tactics and Questions)
Re: Traveller Went Down?
Re: Psionic/jump drives
Re: now this is actually getting humorous...
Re: Traveller is Alive And Well
Re: Re Return of Cliff?
Re: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2056
Re: Drakarans- canonical?
Another Filk (My First Traveller Filk!)
Traveller Proofread commit
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 23:40:33 -0500
From: "Josh W. Spencer"
Subject: John Colicos Condolences Page Now Available
To All Science Fiction Fans:
With John Colicos' passing last week in mind, BattlestarPegasus.com has
prepared a special condolences message board to gather your messages and
personal thoughts in tribute to him and his career. Later this year these
messages will be delivered to the Colicos family.
The John Colicos Condolences Page is located at:
http://www.battlestarpegasus.com/cgi-bin/ugb.cgi
- --
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)
Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA
Ring Master, The Battlestar Galactica Web Ring
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 00:00:50 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin
Subject: Re: Psionic/jump drives
On Sat, 11 Mar 2000 23:39:27 -0500 (EST), Stormhound
wrote:
>Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
>> Jump sickness is also a manifestation of this; it
>> represents an attempt by the brain to 'rationalize' the 'failed
>> activation' of the psionic centers of the brain. In a small
>> number of people, the activation is actually successful.
> Begging your pardon...jump sickness? My brain is floundering on that...is
>this something discussed somewhere in canon, or a general YMMV topic of
>discussion?
> Not that I have anything against it...I rather like the notion, in fact.
>I'd just appreciate being pointed toward somewhere with more detail. :)
Hmmm... that's a good question. I _think_ it's mentioned in a
source that's at least deuterocanonical, but I wouldn't swear to
it - it's certainly not something that I originated, and equally
certainly something that I've accepted as valid throughout...
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 21:26:44 -0800
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
Subject: Re: Dune
Via electronic medium on 3/8/00 3:12 PM, keithalanjohnson@home.com wrote:
> "It is by roleplaying games alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the
> new releases that thoughts acquire speed, the campaign acquires change, and
> the sessions promote excitement. It is by roleplaying games alone I set my
> mind in motion."
>
> -- The Mentat GM's Handbook
That's great, reminds me of one I heard for caffine, and can't quite recall.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 23:36:57 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: THUDDD Help
Frodo Baggins wrote:
>
> Thanks for the info for the new THUDDD page. I am
> very glad to see it is still going. One question. I
> see that "Classic" Traveller designs are acceptable
> (except for the one contest mentioned), but when I
> checked the THUDDD site for previous contests, I could
> not find a single LBB 2 and High Guard submission. Am
> I reading the THUDDD page correctly, could someone
> submit a design right out of LLB2?
Until you pointed that out to me, I didn't know that Jason had added
LBB2/HG to the list of design systems. Prior to THUDDD 10, all THUDDD
entries were for T4 (THUDDD 10 added GT to the allowed design systems).
I don't know why Jason unilaterally added LBB2/HG to THUDDD. (I'll
e-mail him directly about this issue.)
In the meantime, I do know that there is a CT ship design mailing list;
I do not, however, know how to subscribe. I'm sure, though, that some
kindly TMLer will point you in the right direction.
Until then, you may want to check the Traveller Gearhead Ring for CT
designs.
<>
>
> P.S. Sorry about the CAPS; it's an old military habit
> of always using caps in the subject line.
Really? What branch? (In my experiences with the US Army and the
Louisiana Army National Guard, the subject line of memoranda was not
written in all caps. I never had to type other kinds of message
traffic.)
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 23:42:53 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Psionic/jump drives
Stormhound wrote:
>
> Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
>
> > Jump sickness is also a manifestation of this; it
> > represents an attempt by the brain to 'rationalize' the 'failed
> > activation' of the psionic centers of the brain. In a small
> > number of people, the activation is actually successful.
>
> Begging your pardon...jump sickness? My brain is floundering on that...is
> this something discussed somewhere in canon, or a general YMMV topic of
> discussion?
> Not that I have anything against it...I rather like the notion, in fact.
> I'd just appreciate being pointed toward somewhere with more detail. :)
Well, the first canonical mention I recall of jump sickness was in the
CT-era Traveller News Service. See the following URL for details:
http://www.imperiumgames.com/tns/1112.html
(Yes, the Imperium Games Web site is still up, although I see no signs
of recent maintenance.)
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 23:48:03 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: THUDDD Help
Black ICE wrote:
>
<>
>
> Until then, you may want to check the Traveller Gearhead Ring for CT
> designs.
Ooops! Forgot to include the Traveller Gearhead Ring URL ~blush~. Here
it is:
http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=travgearhead;list
<>
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 00:01:58 -0500
From: "Chauncey Smith"
Subject: Re: Modern Traveller
- -----Original Message-----
From: TDRandall@aol.com
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: Saturday, March 11, 2000 5:35 PM
Subject: Re: Modern Traveller
>Kagehira had said
>
>> Cybertech already exists in Traveller, though not heavily used, as is
some
>> biotech. Most of this was done in the MT rules set.
>
>Which books were these? I only bought the core rules, but don't remember
of
>these. Point me to the titles I need to look for on eBay!
>
>Tony
>
My suggestion would be to get FF&S from TNE it will give you the cyber tech
toys to play with.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 00:46:06 -0500
From: "Chauncey Smith"
Subject: chargen
One of the charater generation systems that I really like is from the ARIA
system. It provides both point based charater creation ala GURPS and a
career path based system. The Career path system is based on the idea that
you go somewhere to learn skills. After they go to this place they get
points to put in to skills of differnt types. Either esotaric or vocational
or warrior based the type of place it is. An example of this would be a
college where you'd pick up esotaric and vocational skills or a navy base or
a army post where the vocational and millatary skills are easier to gain.
The idea of I believe aria called them educational estates is one that I'd
like to see added to traveller but I'd much rather the example of the duel
charater generation in one book.
Also I believe the awards should be able to be awarded and deplomas and the
liek be awarded in both systems. So you can gain a star burst for extreme
herioism weather you buy it with points or make it on a die roll.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 15:36:49 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley"
Subject: Re: Gashikan Empire?
> From: Black ICE
> Troy Bradley wrote:
> >
> > New to this forum and was wondering if anyone has done
> > anything with the Second Gashikan Empire? Any reply
> > would be greatly appreciated! Troy
>
> Never heard of it. What's the source?
It's out the back of the Julian Protectorate. There is a little bit of
stuff about it in a couple of copies of Challenge, around about issue 49.
According to issue 49, the current outfit is actually the Third Gashikan
Empire.
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 15:37:26 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley"
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
> From: "Robert Snyder"
> I see the Psionics Suppressions as creating an Imperium spanning
> Mafia organization. Before that time the Mafia would only have
> existed as many-many small organizations focused on the ilegal needs
> of individual worlds.
>
> Is there anything in canon or commonsense that would prohibit what I
> am discussing above?
>
> So, who is THE GODFATHER--The most powerful person/family in the 3rd
> Imperium ? Could the political structure of the Imperium be closely
> tied to the mafia like it is in 20th/21st century Terra Italy ?
I would tend to not have a huge Imperium spanning illegal outfit, but it's
up to you.
A cynic might suggest that the megacorps play that role, but let's ignore
that.
There is a canonical organised crime group in the Regency Sourcebook for
TNE: the Vargr Pack. This is a "nationalist" Vargr movement notionally
dedicated to assisting in the recovery of the Vargr Wilds, but supporting
itself through dubious means in the Regency, and of course engaging in
smuggling.
I would suggest that something of the sort would exist in other settings
too. _However_, it doesn't seem particularly likely that there would only
be one such organisation. I suspect that the description in the RSB was
intentionally misleading, and that the Pack was actually a bunch of
different groups acting in more or less the same way. This seems more
likely both in terms of it being a Vargr organisation, and in the way
organised crime seems to work in the Real World(tm).
In my Spinward Marches game, I have an outfit that actually are on the PCs'
side. They are a group that started off as a street gang, and has become a
cross between a merchant line and a corsair band, with a streak of being a
self-defence organisation for Vargr in the Imperium. Amongst other
things, they cooperate with the Ine Givar, and have been known to run guns
to threatened Vargr communities.
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 15:37:38 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley"
Subject: Re: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
> From: Ingo Heinscher
> Actually, none of today's corporations survived the millennia IMTU. I am
> even not quite sure whether it's conclusive to let some Imperial
megacorps
> have German names (Sternmetall Horizonte, Gesichtskreis
> Sternschiffbau(spelling: sic! The spelling "Geschichtskreis" provided in
> BTC would mean "history circle"...), Schunamann &Sohn). IMO, German as a
> language simply cannot survive the coming thousand years. Anglic will,
> perhaps Chinese and Spanish, but all others will vanish. Not enough
native
> speakers. So why should there be megacorps with names in languages nobody
> understands?
Well, first, it's only a theory that most languages will vanish. That is,
in the OTU, it's wrong! I'm not going to discuss its merits as such - we
can't prove it, and can only go around in circles.
The other thing is that spreading your population out over lots of worlds
gives a different dynamic than if you have them all concentrated on a
single world, with instantaneous communications. That is, each community
could well maintain its identity to a much greater degree in the former
case, than in the latter. This is even more likely if the latter half of
"the coming thousand years" is part of the Long Night.
There is one slight problem though: the fact that German is being used
might well be an artifact of the linguistic skills available to Traveller
writers! This is probably reinforced by it being _bad_ German. It might
make more sense if at least some Chinese, Japanese or other non-European
languages were used - but skills in those languages tend to be a lot rarer
among Traveller players, and presumably writers, than skills (even poor
skills!) in European languages.
I've often wanted to use Chinese ship and world names, but I've never
dared, because I would inevitably make a pig's ear of it.
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 15:36:41 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2000 - Don't blame me for the subject line
> From: "Rupert Boleyn"
> On 9 Mar 00, at 22:53, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
> > The trick is keeping the "mob" from voting for "bread & circuses".
>
> Today maybe. With the Romans the mob existed before bread and circuses,
> and was given said dole to keep 'em quiet. Of course once they'd gotten
> used to the free payouts those who didn't cough up soon had riots on
> thier hands.
A lot of the problem was that the "mob" had, in many cases once been
peasants who had lost their land. The only proper way to have dealt with
them would have been to have carried out a land reform, but that would have
involved redistributing land owned by the very same elite who were the
government. (See the Gracchi for what happened when someone tried this.)
Paying off the mob was a soft option. Of course, after a while, many of
these "former peasants" were actually the grandchildren of "former
peasants" and had never actually farmed themselves.
One of the common causes of landlessness during the Republic, of course,
was the fact that a lot of peasants were spending years of time away from
their land fighting wars to enrichen the elite.
The other component of the "mob" at a certain point were freedmen: former
slaves, and their descendents.
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 15:37:07 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley"
Subject: Robots & stuff (was Re: Clif Tactics and Questions)
> From: "Jesse LaBranche"
> I am running a campaign that takes place on Earth a bit in the
> future, but not as far as the Imperium.
We've actually recently had a discussion about near future settings,
although we were tending to assume interstellar capabilities.
> Okay, so here's my questions...
>
> 1. Were there rules done up in any of Traveller's editions/versions for
> the design of robots/androids, cybernetics, and vehicles (atmospheric
> craft- not ships).
Yes!
Well, cybernetics aren't really spelt out in CT, but I'm sure there are
unofficial versions around somewhere. In compensation, however, CT had
_two_ different robot design systems! I'd would probably base any
cybernetics I used on bits of the robot design systems.
The others have all this stuff around in various places, IIRC. In any
case, mixing and matching elements between the different versions is
entirely acceptable.
Oh. You want references?
CT:
Best of the JTAS #1. Robot design rules.
Book 8: Robots. More complex robot design rules. These sound more like
what you want.
Striker. Vehicle rules.
MT:
Basic rules: Vehicles
Referee's Companion: some sketchy notes on robots. Probably no use to
you.
Probably some DGP material somewhere: pretty much whatever you want....
TNE:
Fire, Fusion & Steel: Vehicles, cybernetics and more toys than you can
imagine. T2K v2.2 compatible.
Vampire Fleets: Robot design rules. T2K v2.2 compatible. I haven't
really looked at them much.
T4:
Who cares? Yes, there is stuff around.
GT:
buckets of GURPS sourcebooks.
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 22:17:15 -0800
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
Subject: Re: Traveller Went Down?
Via electronic medium on 3/9/00 8:40 AM, gridlore@pop.mindspring.com wrote:
> "It is by penguins alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the
> Adelies that thoughts acquire flippers, the flippers acquire feathers, and
> the stomach acquires herring. It is by penguins alone I set my
> mind in motion."
>
> This post brought to you by the letters "A", "C", and "Q", and the number
> 5.56mm. After 5pm, 23. Fnord. Not valid in Canada, bits of it anyway.
That's a keeper, my goodness, the TML has been fantastic lately! Even the
little flame feuds have been funny... 700 posts + to go...
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 16:22:54 +1100
From: "AB"
Subject: Re: Psionic/jump drives
>> Anyone else had any thoughts on the effects of jump drives on sentients.
>> Hadn't noticed anything in any Traveller booklet I've read. I'm curious
>> to know.
I was wondering just the other day what effect jump might have on an unborn
child. If there were adverse effects, what implications would this have for
crew who became pregnant onboard ship. The economic consequences to a
family-run merchanter could be disasterous ("My wife and chief engineer's
going to have a baby. We're going to have to sell the ship.")
On a related thread I was wondering what the legal status of a child born in
jumpspace might be.
I seem to recall that Imperial documents are issued by the government of the
planet of birth; what potential legal problems might such an individual
have?
What if an unscrupulous Captain wanted to charge a passenger for an extra
passage for her newborn child, threatening her with charges of harbouring a
stowaway if she refused?
- -AB
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 22:55:32 -0800
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
Subject: Re: now this is actually getting humorous...
Via electronic medium on 3/9/00 8:21 PM, goldendj@mail.pcisys.net wrote:
>> Besides, aren't the Great Old Ones of the TML allowed to address
>> themselves in the second person?
>
> Dave doesn't think so. Nope, Dave thinks he should address himself
> in the third person. Yes, that's what Dave thinks. Now Dave has to go
> take his medicine.
>
> -- aka the Horseman Famine, of the Four Horsemen of the Traveller
> Apocalypse.
>
> -- In an open-source world, nobody needs gates or windows ...
I am dying here, that is so funny. I never , but that would merit
one of those Honorary(sp?) Keyboard Kill's.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 23:19:46 -0800
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
Subject: Re: Traveller is Alive And Well
Via electronic medium on 3/9/00 11:44 PM, semo@pil.net wrote:
> I'm not going to defend John's attitude, but I will say that his points are
> at least valid.
I note also that the greatest uproar comes from folks who have developed
products for some variation of Traveller, and they could understandably take
an attack on their joint creation somewhat personally. And a lot of those
were tongue-in-cheek. The all caps bit is something I've encountered a lot
and didn't take as seriously as some did. I do think that although his
points are valid, he overstated the case, probably because he /likes/
Traveller.
\\\\\\\Amber Class Heresy Zone///////
BZA's Traveller--> http://www.sierratel.com/aum/BZAT/
BZA's E-Mail--> xrp@sierratel.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 20:38:36 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Re Return of Cliff?
On 11 Mar 00, at 7:20, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> At 08:44 PM 3/11/2000 +1300, you wrote:
>
> >I managed to be off-line during the Clif incident. I've been wondering
> >what I've missed ever since.
>
> A very juvenile, annoying pest.
>
> >Leroy I was here for, more's the pity, though it was funny (sort of)
> >watching him claim that GDW said things that all their published material
> >didn't say.
>
> But he'd been to Bill Keith's *house* man! He was a close personal friend
> of people who worked at GDW! --
And I've been to one of our ex-Prime Minister's, so I odviously know
everything there is to know about the real story behind the
government's actions.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 20:39:35 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
On 11 Mar 00, at 8:22, Ingo Heinscher wrote:
> Actually, none of today's corporations survived the millennia IMTU. I am
> even not quite sure whether it's conclusive to let some Imperial megacorps
> have German names (Sternmetall Horizonte, Gesichtskreis
> Sternschiffbau(spelling: sic! The spelling "Geschichtskreis" provided in
> BTC would mean "history circle"...), Schunamann &Sohn). IMO, German as a
> language simply cannot survive the coming thousand years. Anglic will,
> perhaps Chinese and Spanish, but all others will vanish. Not enough native
> speakers. So why should there be megacorps with names in languages nobody
> understands?
Why do we have mottos in Latin?
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 01:20:51 -0700
From: Dale Gyles
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2056
>> My six regular players are all veteran gamers, but only one had ever
>>played Traveller before. I am using the T4 rules set for chargen and
>>task resolution.
>
>What do you, and your veterans, think of T4's rules?
>
>(I'm not looking to start *that* discussion again, everybody, so
>don't all jump in. I'd just like to hear Dale's opinion seeing
>as he's had some recent experience using that ruleset.)
>
>> The campaign is quite popular. We play every other week because I am 42
>>and my enthusiasm/stamina for RPG's is not as strong as it was in my
>>youth.
>
>I know what you mean! My enthusiasm is just as high, but my
>stamina isn't.
>
>Eris
I like the T4 rules, although I will certainly buy T5 when it comes out.
My players do not care about the rules, as long as I am consistent. I just
found out tonight that my one player with previous Traveller experience
thought I was running Gurps Traveller. (I have also collected all the GT
books.) All he cares about is the Traveller Mileau and its hard SF
approach, although he is not that picky about scientific accuracy.
Basically, as long as I keep the game moving along, my players are happy.
The most unexpected thing the players did was to spend an entire session
going over the numbers (economics, performance, and weapons) of their new
starship. Attempts to move the game along to the actual adventuring were
rebuffed. They made me roleplay job interviews for all the NPC's.
I think the rules are not the most important thing as long as the referee
knows what he is doing and why, and is consistent and fair.
I will confess that I don't use the T4 rules verbatim. I have tinkered
with them. Please don't flame me too hard. :)
By the way, I have implemented many of the fiendish suggestions posted
here in my campaign. The TML has been very inspiring. I especially liked
the various suggestions for equipement malfunctions. I told my players I
had downloaded 101 Malfunctions. It makes them nervous.
Dale
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dale Gyles
Black Eagle, MT
gyles@mtn-webtech.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 00:30:40 -0800
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
Subject: Re: Drakarans- canonical?
Via electronic medium on 3/10/00 6:48 PM, Qstor@aol.com wrote:
> I thought there was some reference to a "reptilian" race living on the border
> of the Zho sectors in a CT/MT rulebook/supplement...I'm very vauge on the
> subject...I defer to the more knowledgeable members of the list like Hans,
> Walt or Loren....
>
> Mike
>
197 post to go, perhaps somebody has already told you, but I believe you are
thinking about the Saurians of Saurus/Vilis. To quote GT: BtC:
Upright warm-blooded bipeds massing about 220 pounds, Saurians are tailed
and have scaly skin. Their claws make quite effective weapons, but see use
more often as the equivalent of a pocket-knife. Saurians are omnivorous, but
eat mainly meat to maintain their highly active bodies.
Hope that helps.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 02:51:04 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Another Filk (My First Traveller Filk!)
Writing this filk seemed a good way to spend the evening:
**begin transmission**
"During the Fifth War"
[to the tune of "After the Gold Rush", by Neil Young]
I remember when the Army forces lifted
They were sent to assist the Marines
There were shuttles flying, and parents crying,
It was a tragic scene
I can recall the Imperial flag
Blowing out towards the sea
Watching as our sons and daughters left us, to fight the Zhodani
Watching as our sons and daughters left us, to fight the Zhodani
I was lying in a public shelter, with Zhodani ships above
We were laying helter-skelter, longing for some hope or love
There was a raid warden walking 'round, a psi helmet on his head
And I thought that if the Zhos could read my mind
Then I'd rather that I was dead
Thought that if the Zhos could read my mind
Then I'd rather that I was dead
Well, I dreamed I saw the Navy starships flying
In the yellow haze of the sun
There were Sunbursts flying, Zhodani dying
In their bunkers, one by one
All in a dream, all in a dream
I knew the war was won
Zhodani would no longer bask themselves in the warm rays of our sun
Zhodani would no longer bask themselves in our sun's rays....
**end transmission**
"Perhaps today _is_ a good day to filk! SINGING SPEED!" ;-)
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 03:51:30 -0500
From: "Chauncey Smith"
Subject: Traveller Proofread commit
What I would love to see in the next edition of traveller is good play
testing by ppl who don't know how to play the game already. I believe this
has been one of the problems that traveller has had in each edition that
comes out after the first. Megatraveller was written by ppl who had all the
classic traveller books so rules and explanations was missing there. This
also happened as recently as T4 with calculated values seeming to come from
anywhere in Imperial Squadrons. TNE had this problem in the Vampire Fleets
book with the robot creation rules it never explains command types or
automous ratings. I believe this comes from the fact that the writers and
the playtesters both had a similar background of information to draw on.
I believe this would be a benefit to traveller as a whole if the idea that
they're player who never played this game will be buying this game. I know I
was oringally turned off by Megatraveller for a while because there was
idea's that I didn't get.Then I bought a few challenges and got the idea. I
believe that alot of others may have had the same feeling.
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2057
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To: traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
Traveller-digest Sunday, March 12 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2058
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: GURPS Teletubbies/Traveller crossover
Re: Minor races and jump drive
Re: Dune
Re: Dune
RE: Re Return of Cliff?
Teletubbies - Subliminal Programming (#include )
Jump Sickness
The Mire Run
Re: Leroy/Secret Knowledge
Re: The Role of the E-7+
Re: Propaganda in Traveller (Was: John vs Clif vs Leroy)
Re: The Yanks are Coming
Re: Psionic/jump drives
Best rules system
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 12:57:17 -0800
From: Keith Johnson
Subject: Re: GURPS Teletubbies/Traveller crossover
>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
>Subject: Re: Leroy/Secret Knowledge
>
>Doug Berry writes:
><< I was involved in a rgfm flamewar (isn't that redundant?) with an idiot who
> claimed that trying to write for SJG was "stupid" because they only let
> their close friends and cronies in. >>
>
>Let me guess -- the proof of this statement was that his proposal for GURPS
>Teletubbies was turned down?
"And now it's Tinky Winky's turn to hold the FGMP. Oh look! Here comes
Dipsy! Watch Tinky Winky adjust the targeting system. . ."
_________________________________________________________
Rev. Keith Johnson /\ keith@sjgames.com
Assistant Webmaster /()\ keithalanjohnson@home.com
Steve Jackson Games /____\ reverendkeith@hotmail.com
"I choose you, Dullinor!" - PokeTrav Master
IMTU tm++@ t4+@ tg++$ ru- ge-@ st+ pi+ he+ dr+ hi-@ zh+
_________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 00:58:57 -0800
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
Subject: Re: Minor races and jump drive
Via electronic medium on 3/10/00 11:58 PM, Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de
wrote:
> In addition, there are some minor races (namely the Drakarans of GT:AR1)
> who reached a relatively high TL but never had the idea to build a jump
> drive, and who only reverse-engineered (which does not necessarily mean
> understandig the physical principles behind the design) jump drive
> technology from a ship from one of the Six Races.
IMTU, the minor races is not so firm a term, nor is it true that the major
races invented the Jump drive. The Vilani reverse engineered it from Ancient
artifacts, the Solomani from a Vilani craft, etc. Those races that are given
the technology never really get a chance to prove if they could do it on
their own or not.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 13:05:42 -0800
From: Keith Johnson
Subject: Re: Dune
At 03:54 AM 3/12/00 -0500, you wrote:
>Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 21:26:44 -0800
>From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
>Subject: Re: Dune
>
>Via electronic medium on 3/8/00 3:12 PM, keithalanjohnson@home.com wrote:
>
> > "It is by roleplaying games alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the
> > new releases that thoughts acquire speed, the campaign acquires change, and
> > the sessions promote excitement. It is by roleplaying games alone I set my
> > mind in motion."
> >
> > -- The Mentat GM's Handbook
>
>That's great, reminds me of one I heard for caffine, and can't quite recall.
The one that I see floating about the net is usually this one:
It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion. It is by the
Coca-Cola that the thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, the
stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion.
_________________________________________________________
Rev. Keith Johnson /\ keith@sjgames.com
Assistant Webmaster /()\ keithalanjohnson@home.com
Steve Jackson Games /____\ reverendkeith@hotmail.com
"I choose you, Dullinor!" - PokeTrav Master
IMTU tm++@ t4+@ tg++$ ru- ge-@ st+ pi+ he+ dr+ hi-@ zh+
_________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 04:21:30 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Dune
From: Keith Johnson
> The one that I see floating about the net is usually this one:
>
> It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion. It is by the
> Coca-Cola that the thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains,
> the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone that I set my
> mind in motion.
The one I see frequently is:
It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion,
By the beans of Java, my thoughts acquire speed,
The hands acquire the shakes, the shakes become a warning,
It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion."
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 23:20:17 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: Re Return of Cliff?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> On Behalf Of Rupert Boleyn
> And I've been to one of our ex-Prime Minister's, so I odviously know
> everything there is to know about the real story behind the
> government's actions.
Mr. Boleyn ?
If you'll just step this way sir, Mr. Davies of the Directorate would like
to have a little chat...
(IRL, the Wellington By Night VtM LARP used to meet in Turnbull House, just
thirty feet from our parliament buidings. Many's the time a Ventue and his
enforcers have been having little "talks" to people in the grounds of
parliament, or by the War Memorial, only to have tone it down a bit so that
the politicians walking past don't get too worried whle we run the country
around them. The funniest ones were those who weren't completely sober. ))
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 10:25:39 +0000
From: Paul Campbell
Subject: Teletubbies - Subliminal Programming (#include )
Just picking up on a few references to Teletubbies. Has anyone ever
accidentally turned over to the Teletubbies and found themselves transfixed,
waiting desperatley for even a shred of a plot to appear? You can't turn over,
it's hipnotic. Or is this just me?
I have however found a way to avoid the ensnarement. Have the volume muted
*before* turning over. With no sound it is very easy to escape. Must be
something subliminal in the music.
ObTrav: A production company makes a kids program for distibution to lower
tech worlds (6-8). They include subliminal programming to make the kids more
docile, to relieve harassed parents.
1) Long term affects are begining to show that the affected population is much
more docile, and less driven to acheive in life. This could have severe
economic effects for a worlds economy if the next generation are too lacklustre.
2) A government on a high population world is having extra programming added
to suppress aggression and reduce individuality. They are trying to forstall a
rise in violent riots in overcrowed areas. A detractor ask the PCs to
investigate rumours of brainwashing of the general public.
3) A contact of the PCs on a world they visit regularly, has dropped out of
circulation. When they find him they discover that he has become 'addicted'
to some kids program. He is even more succeptibe to the messages than most
people. He /is/ addicted and will need deprogrammed. How wide spread is this
effect.
4) A rebel group on an Gov A or C world wants to use subliminal programming to
change the Gov to B. Then they will, they hope, have the backing of the
population to have a revolution. To do this they need the player to ammend the
programs they are bringing in as cargo. And not just the kids programs, they
want to see a change in government in their lifetime.
- --
Paul Campbell
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 11:28:42 +0000
From: Paul Campbell
Subject: Jump Sickness
This is a draft of some rules I threw together on the subject. Note that the
References may not be exhaustive.
The game rules are probably a bit heavy handed, and are for GT.
- --
JUMP SICKNESS
Jump Sickness is mentioned in a nember of texts associated with Traveller.
However nowhere have I seen any detail regarding it. So I have taken
all the information available to me and provide these guidelines for
managing Jump Sickness in your Traveller game.
REFERENCES
SOM DGP Starship Operator's Manual
SIII GURPS: Space 3rd Edition
QUOTES
SOM8: 'Violent Jump Exits: ...can cause...[in] more extreme cases...can
cause crew members to go insane...'
SOM11: '...about half the crew had spent the week coughing up their guts
in the freshers.' '...the field deformation extended too far into the
room, and he died a few days later of jump sickness.'
SOM14: '...getting close to the jump field with little intervening
protection has dangerous effects on most lifeforms. Most go temporarily
insane if they get within a few centimeters of a jump field barrier,
and some never recover or even die from its effects.'
SOM14: 'In cases of misjump, however, the instances of nausea and similar
discomforts often increase. An unusual number of such complaints is
taken very seriously, as it often is the first indication that a misjump
has occurred.'
SIII39: 'FTL Side Effects: Mental Effects: Mental distress: Those who miss
their IQ rolls - attempted at GM-chosen time intervals during FTL travel - are
plagued by nightmares or mild headaches. The result if -1 (or more) to IQ.'
SIII39: 'FTL Side Effects: Mental Effects: Psychic distress: Travelers must
make IQ rolls to resist constant delusions and manic impulses. They may avoid
this if heavily medicated or in freeze.'
NOTES
The key points taken from these quotes are:
'...go insane...'
'...coughing up their guts...'
'...died...of jump sickness.'
'...temporarily insane...some never recover or even die...'
'...nausea and similar discomforts...'
EFFECTS
Insanity
Nausea
Vomiting
GAME RULES
1. Determine cause of Jump Sickness and Severity
Jump Sickness is often caused by a fault in the tumble during transition
to jumpspace. Getting too close to the Jump Field Bubble can also bring
about Jump Sickness. Depending on the Cause of Jump Sickness and the
degree of the Fault, determines how severe the Jump Sickness will be.
(See Modifier at bottom of table)
Roll (2D) JF Exposure Bad Tumble
2- No Effect No Effect
3 HT+4, IQ+2 HT+2, IQ+4
4 HT+3, IQ+1 HT+1, IQ+3
5 HT+2, IQ HT , IQ+2
6 HT+1, IQ-1 HT-1, IQ+1
7 HT , IQ-2 HT-2, IQ
8 HT-1, IQ-3 HT-3, IQ-1
9 HT-2, IQ-4 HT-4, IQ-2
10 HT-3, IQ-5 HT-5, IQ-3
11 HT-4, IQ-6 HT-6, IQ-4
12+ HT-5, IQ-7 HT-7, IQ-5
Modifiers: -3 Trivial, -1 Minor, +0 Moderate, +1 Serious, +2 Dangerous,
+3 Disasterous
When a situation arrises that brings the quality of the tumble into
question, or a character gets too close to the Jump Field Bubble, decide
how severe the situation is, from Trivial to Disasterous. Roll on the
above table and read the target from the appropriate column.
For each character at risk, have them roll HT and IQ as appropriate.
On failure, not by how much the roll was missed. If they succeed at the
HT roll, they don't experience any Nausea or Vomiting. If they success
at the IQ roll, they don't suffer and mental illness. If anyone fails
both rolls they are subject to both maladys. As you can see from the
table, JF Exposure is more likely to bring about Insanity than Nausea,
and a Bad Tumble is more likely to cause Nausea than Insanity.
For Nausea effects goto 2
For Insanity effects goto 3
2. Nausea
Characters who have become succeptable to Nausea only begin Vomiting if they
missed the roll by 3 or more. Lower their HT by the amount they missed the
roll. If this causes someone's HT to drop to 0 they are in need of immediate
attention, or they may risk chocking in their unconscious state.
For each day roll their effective HT, +4 if being attended to by a medic
full time, +2 if part-time. A Critical Success succeeds on throwing of
the Sickness, HT is recovered normally. On a Success they may recover
+1 HT, +2 if being attended by a medic. A Failure loses 1 HT unless
attended by a medic. A Critical Failure, indicates a serious lapse and
the loss of D6 HT.
If HT drops below HT-3 vomiting begins. Once HT return to within 3 of the
starting HT, vomiting ceases unless their is a lapse. Once HT is back to
normal the Sickness is gone.
Anyone still suffering from Jump Sickness when the Jump finishes, gets an
additional +4 to their daily HT rolls.
3. Insanity
Characters who have become succeptable to Insanity only begin suffering a
psychosis if they missed the roll by 3 or more. Lower their IQ by the amount
they missed the roll. Their IQ at this point is the IQ to roll against each
day. If this causes someone's IQ to drop to 0 they enter a catatonic state.
For each day roll against their modified IQ, as determined above. On a
Critical Success the character succeeds in throwing of the malady, IQ is
recovered at 2 points a day, rising to 4 once the Jump is finished. On a
Success they may recover 1 point of IQ. A Failure loses 1 IQ. A Critical
Failure indicates a serious lapse and the loss of D6 IQ, they are also at risk
of permanent damage, goto 5. Permanent Psychosis.
If IQ drops below IQ-3 they will develop a psychosis, goto 4. Psychosis. Once
IQ returns to within 3 of the starting IQ, the psychosis will fade. Once IQ
returns to it's original value they have completly recoverd.
4. Psychosis
Should a character's IQ drop to less than IQ-3 they aquire a temporary
Disadvantage. You can roll on one of the following tables. Alternatively you
can just select one or invent your own.
Sample Psychosis
Roll (2D) Quirk or Disadvantage
2 Mouth gets dry when about the enter Jump Space
3 You must always be awake or asleep entering Jump Space
4 You believe Good and/or Evil lives in Jump Space
5 You must give an offering to Jump Space every trip
6 You must sing loudly entering Jump Space
7 Distractible
8 Dreamer
9 Dull
10 Incompetence
11 Staid
12 Uncongenial
Roll (2D) -5 Mental Disadvantage
2 Compulsive Behaviour
3 Delusion (Minor)
4 Pyromania - To keep the monsters in your mind at bay
5 Edgy
6 Guilt Complex - good if others died from Jump Sickness
7 Incurious
8 Loner
9 Nightmares
10 Post-Combat Shakes
11 Voices
12 Workaholic
Roll (3D) -10 Mental Disadvantage
3 Stuttering (Physical Disadvantage)
4 Bad Temper
5 Bloodlust
6 Cowardice
7 Delusion (Major)
8 Impulsiveness
9 Overconfidence
10 Paranoia
11 Phobia
12 Split Personality
13 Confused
14 Indecisive
15 Low Self-Image
16 Reclusive
17 Short Attention Span
18 Solipsist
5. Permanent Psychosis
Should a character suffer a Critical Failure as mentioned in 3. Insanity, they
should make an IQ+2 roll. A Critical Success means they don't suffer any side
effects. A Success lets the character away with only a Quirk or 1 point Mental
Disadvantage. A Failure gives the character a 5 point Mental Disadvantage. A
Critical Failure gives the character a 10 point Mental Disadvantage.
Irrespective of any Permenent Psychosis, the character's IQ will eventually
recover to its original level.
- --
Paul Campbell
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 23:08:33 +1100
From: "Katharine Whitchurch"
Subject: The Mire Run
I ducked into #traveller on Undernet, and it got me economics gearheading
again.
I have figured out most of the routes in District 268, and I think I am
going to quietly go insane.
But I did figure out a great, great route ... the Glisten-Mire run.
I hereby present ... a Brief Guide to the Glisten-Mire Route (yes, Jeff, you
can put this on Freelance Traveller). It's part of my work-in-progress - the
Pilots Guide to District 268.
If the bit at the front sounds like an advertising brochure, it is ("At
twenty rounds a second, the loudest sound of the Famile Spofulam Mark Three
Automatic Gauss Carbine is the creak of the ardalope-skin trigger. Unless of
course you dial the velocity of the rounds up to 2000 meters per second,
like we do ..."). One of the ideas that is rolling around my head is that
High Passengers on long-distance trips deserve suitable entertainment on
long distance trips. You've always wanted to take your party of PCs
pig-sticking havent you ...
****************************************************
Glisten is one of the Jewels of the Marches - a hundred worldlets, circling
around their sun, connected by the silver threads of gigs, shuttles and
mass-driven cargos, a system alive in a dance of commerce.
Two subsectors away lies Mire, capital of the Imperial Ally State of the
Darrians - a proud, ancient civilisation who are carefully hauling
themselves back from the fiery abyss of the Magiz.
Seven jumps. Twenty-one parsecs. The gateway to the experience of a
lifetime.
******************************************************
After leaving the busy system of Glisten, the first port of call is Egypt.
Please be aware of local atmospheric conditions, and contact the Purser or a
Steward regarding an escort and suitable protective clothing if you wish to
make a tour of the surface. Suitably experienced persons with TAS insurance
packages may wish to engage in hang-gliding, although an exposure of thirty
minutes or less is strongly recommended.
Our second destination is Mertactor, the Provisional Subsector Capital of
District 268. Blessed with a sweet-smelling atmosphere, bareback or saddled
poni rides and a Rebor hunt are scheduled for our two-day planetfall. Fly
fishing trips can also be arranged upon request - as always, feel free to
contact our Purser or a Steward. A further high point of the visit is dinner
with a local art expert, Mr Ganidiirsi Meszaros, whose work in organising
the purchase of a number of pieces from Lakou for the Members Room of the
Glisten Polo Grounds was recognised by a Candidate Membership in that
association.
Passengers are reminded that we are leaving Imperial space on lifting from
Mertactor, so contact our Purser regarding Declarations of Attorney and
appropriate financial arrangements at least 24 hours before liftoff, if
these services will be required.
268 B262732-B Cp 610>
Tarkine is truly one of the most beautiful worlds of the District, with it's
maginificent mountain valleys and marked level of biodiversity. Passengers
are advised to take care with decontamination procedures, as the local
administration engages in ongoing dialogue with it's citizens about the most
appropriate way to achieve balance between development and environmental
objectives.
Local political issues aside, we have arranged for a number of sightseeing,
diving and tours in the quaint propellor aircraft of local construction.
From Tarkine we go to Squallia, an extra-Imperial world of noted charm. A
world renowned for it's sunsets, a walking tour of the Tarkine Uplands has
been arranged. Local guides will of course be available.
A guided tour of underwater caves by underwater cyclos will also be
available, with full breathing gear supplied.
*****************************************
To be continued ... it's late and writing brochures is competing with me
watching my footy team on TV (Sydney Swans vs St Kilda ... Swannies up by 2
goals in the first quarter of the first match of the post-Lockett era).
Ian Whitchurch
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 02:02:35 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Re: Leroy/Secret Knowledge
At 03:03 12.03.00, you wrote:
>Let me guess -- the proof of this statement was that his proposal for GURPS
>Teletubbies was turned down? Or had he ever bothered to make an inquiry? Ort
>is this based on something a friend's cousin's dentist's college roomate's
>drinking buddy's brother told him?
You mean smebody actually proposed Gurps:Teletubbies? Aaarrrgh!
(OTOH: This MIGHT be a way to get a younger public interested in RPG´ing
again ;-)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 01:23:29 GMT
From: Postmark Design Bureau
Subject: Re: The Role of the E-7+
> I asked:
> >What is the role of the E7+ ?
Chris Dixon replied:
>
> All I know is the USMC role so take my two cents as you will.
Thanks, that fits with what I'd gathered from the list about the
USMC.
The problem I have is that Traveller doesn't seem to reflect this
very well - with officers getting more skills and there not seeming
to be any obvious skills for them - should they just get a mix of
admin, tactics and leadership skills to add to their branch service
skills?
- --
Phil Kitching, http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo
Postmark Design Bureau, Laser Communications Division
"For when your message must get through"
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 04:50:19 -0800
From: "Jesse LaBranche"
Subject: Re: Propaganda in Traveller (Was: John vs Clif vs Leroy)
Chris Seamans wrote:
> There was a period in there, between his "conspiracy theory phase" and his
> "good posting phase" in which he went on to bash a couple of different
> religions, but he seemed to really have it in for the Mormons if I
remember
> correctly. I think we had at least one Mormon on the list who didn't take
> kindly to his insulting attacks.
Yeah, that was me :-) No, I'm not a fanatic- this was specifically
targeted
propaganda and lies on his part that I so strongly objected to. I think
threads
at the time were regarding storage of food, drink, and equipment for ships'
crews and the Mormons were brought into it because of their own food
storage programs.
OB Traveller: I was thinking about propaganda uses in both the Star Wars
sourcebooks, and the movie Starship Troopers. This also appeared on both
the Battlestar Galactica and Babylon-5 tv series'.
I was wondering if anyone on the list has bothered writing any kind of a
propaganda program for any of the governments or other organizations on
your worlds?
What about advertising programs/campaigns by MegaCorporations and
other sales organizations? Also, have any of you done anything like "air
miles" for travel plans with the TAS.
Any of the above, or even similar approaches to things in your games, I
would love to hear about.
Later.
Jesse.
vanquer@email.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 05:20:43 -0800
From: "Jesse LaBranche"
Subject: Re: The Yanks are Coming
Greetings,
> > Not really. In that part of the country, a farm may be the "Johnson
> > place" to all the locals, even though the Johnsons sold it 70 years ago.
> > After a century or so, they'll get around to calling it by the name of
> > the "new" family...
> That's the way it is in rural areas, but in urban areas it's frequently
the
> case that there is still a strong identification with the original
> nationality or ethnic group. A few blocks north and west of my house we
have
> "Little Vietnam", a few blocks north and east there's a huge Polish
> population and "Polish" or "Polish-American" is added as a prefix on a
large
> number of signs in that area.
> Similarly, directly across the street there's a bar called Quinlan's with
a
> huge green clover on the sign. It's quite common to see a variety of Irish
> bumper stickers and see people who walk around with t-shirts proclaiming
> various Irish-themed slogans. I've got an uncle and a truckload of cousins
> who belong to the Ancient Order of the Hibernians. Hell, there was even an
> Irish mob 'round these parts not that long ago.
> For what it's worth, I've never in my life heard *anybody* 'round these
> parts ever use the term yankee to refer to anything but baseball.
This just reminded me of when I worked for a carnival several years ago
:-)
We were doing a show in Humboldt (sp?) park Chicago. It was in March and
the area is known as "little Puerto Rico" because of the number of PR's in
the
area.
Anyway, I think we were there for the holiday- "Puerto Rican day". We
had
no PR's in our crew, and had to change from our regular uniforms into
t-shirts
that our bosses bought us.
These were maroon shirts that had the "I Puerto Rico" on them
just to keep hostilities down because the gangs in the area generally did
not
like whites "invading" their turf.
Even with a thousand cops on the premises, you really had to watch your
step there (2 carnies did get knifed over something stupid that I can't
quite
recall).
We also hired gangs as "security" and they gave our own security guards
the week off. This was a sort of bribe I believe to keep the problems to an
absolute minimum.
While all of the above paints a really nasty picture I'm sure, it wasn't
really
as bad as you would think by it. I had a lot of fun, met a lot of people,
ate a
lot of my favorite ethnic food, and PR women are HOT especially when you
are seventeen and not involved in the day-to-day BS in the area :-)
Now, I was curious as to what types of things you would put into YTU
paralelling things like this? Say the predominently Terran crew lands on a
world that is mainly, Vargr what would some of the "cool" little things that
the crew has to do to "adapt" be?
What about other races and various world views and such? I know the
widely generic information in the books- however I treat this a lot like the
blanket statement "Group X hates group Y".
Surely, there are situations in which two (potentially) hostile (to each
other) groups actually do come together and don't shoot it out between
them.
Just curious and looking for a few ideas :-)
Jesse.
vanquer@email.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 08:01:41 -0600
From: Michael Maley
Subject: Re: Psionic/jump drives
At the time I limited it to engineers as a conbination of the effect of
both jump space and jump drives togethers over a period of time of about
six years according to my notes. I also put a limiting factor because
at the time I played a little D&D (as well as Runequest). during those
years 1980-4, players were constantly deliberately getting chewed up by
lycanthropes to become lycanthropes themselves. Didn't want (cheesey, I
know,) and unbalanced game of untrained and poorly trained psis running
around everywhere.
That's an excellent point about jump 6 having more effect than jump 1.
Hadn't thought of that one. Thanx.
darkhstarr
"James W. Lindsay" wrote:
>
> On Sat, 11 Mar 2000 14:17:55 -0600, Michael Maley wrote:
>
> > I just dug up another dusty box of campaign notes from my game. I found
> > somthing I came up with called the 'Irheaen Sydrome', named after an
> > Imperial scientist Eun Irheaen who postulated in year 15. He research
> > noted an abnormal amount of children born to jump drive engineers were
> > potential or latent psis. His thesis was that the time/space bending
> > effects of jump drives affected the genes that produced psionic
> > abilities. This led to efforts to better shielding on drives. I got
> > the concepts from some old SF books, A. B. Chandler in particular.
> >
> > Anyone else had any thoughts on the effects of jump drives on sentients.
> > Hadn't noticed anything in any Traveller booklet I've read. I'm curious
> > to know.
>
> I like it. I would add that exposure to Jump-6 space has more of an effect
> than exposure to Jump-1 space. That would help limit the exposure to only
> the last few dozen generations or so, so that these adept psions don't
> stick out in society like a sore thumb.
>
> Why just engineers though? Or are you saying that it is exposure to an
> operating jump drive and not jump space itself that is causing this genetic
> mutation?
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
> Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Can I speak to someone higher up the food-chain please?
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 06:09:07 -0800
From: "Jesse LaBranche"
Subject: Best rules system
Greets everyone,
First off, I do not want to start "flame-wars" or the old
This Traveller is better than that Traveller argument that
I have seen before.
I sold my MT boxed set about a year ago, having bought
it to replace my CT books that I owned a long time ago. I
am looking at buying Traveller again.
Here are my questions at present...
1.How many versions of Traveller have been released at
this point?
2.Which game system does which version run on?
3.What is the current version and game system in production?
I tend to hybridize rules between the systems and even
back and forth between games, so the "core" system that
I use doesn't make a lot of difference except that if I get the
one that I would make the most use of first, then I don't have
as much conversion work to do..
Thus, this next set of questions is looking to hear people's
opinions about the versions/systems that they have played
and views on that system/version...
4.What do you think are the strengths in your favorite version/
system over the other ones in print?
5.What do you think they could have improved on in your
favoirte version/system? Does another version/system have
these improvements? How hard would the conversion be to
do?
6.Any other notes that you would care to let me know regarding
which system would probably be the best to purchase?
Thanks and good gaming.
Jesse.
vanquer@email.msn.com
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2058
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Traveller-digest Sunday, March 12 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2059
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Psionic/jump drives
Re: Minor races and jump drive
Re: Psionic/jump drives
Re: The Mire Run
Re: Jump Sickness
Re: Non-random Character Generation is Easy
Re: Random Chargen for GT (was: Re: 4 Bad Things....)
Re: First post (caveat poster!)
Re: Yaskodray
Re: Robots & stuff (was Re: Clif Tactics and Questions)
Re: Modern Traveller
Re: Leroy/Secret Knowledge
Re: Re Still going in the Late 3I
Re: Staff Officers
Re: Teletubbies - Subliminal Programming (#include )
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 08:18:15 -0600
From: Michael Maley
Subject: Re: Psionic/jump drives
I had made Dr. Irheaen had tested both engineers and other crew and
passengers in his study. I left in open to how fair his testing
was(after all, some other GM might want to use the idea but develop in a
different direction). Personally I did intend that the "Irheaen
Syndrome" was a correct correlation between psionic potential and the
interaction of jump drives/jump space.
darkhstarr
Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
>
> On Sat, 11 Mar 2000 19:47:48 -0500 (EST), "James W. Lindsay"
> wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 11 Mar 2000 14:17:55 -0600, Michael Maley wrote:
>
> >> I just dug up another dusty box of campaign notes from my game. I found
> >> somthing I came up with called the 'Irheaen Sydrome', named after an
> >> Imperial scientist Eun Irheaen who postulated in year 15. He research
> >> noted an abnormal amount of children born to jump drive engineers were
> >> potential or latent psis. His thesis was that the time/space bending
> >> effects of jump drives affected the genes that produced psionic
> >> abilities. This led to efforts to better shielding on drives. I got
> >> the concepts from some old SF books, A. B. Chandler in particular.
>
> >> Anyone else had any thoughts on the effects of jump drives on sentients.
> >> Hadn't noticed anything in any Traveller booklet I've read. I'm curious
> >> to know.
>
> >I like it. I would add that exposure to Jump-6 space has more of an effect
> >than exposure to Jump-1 space. That would help limit the exposure to only
> >the last few dozen generations or so, so that these adept psions don't
> >stick out in society like a sore thumb.
>
> >Why just engineers though? Or are you saying that it is exposure to an
> >operating jump drive and not jump space itself that is causing this genetic
> >mutation?
>
> Expand on it - the study was done on engineers only, and never
> followed up with the logical study of ship crews and "frequent
> flyers". Jump sickness is also a manifestation of this; it
> represents an attempt by the brain to 'rationalize' the 'failed
> activation' of the psionic centers of the brain. In a small
> number of people, the activation is actually successful.
>
> --
> Jeff Zeitlin
> jzeitlin@cyburban.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 08:28:56 -0600
From: Michael Maley
Subject: Re: Minor races and jump drive
Sometimes races could voluntarily give up jump drive. I created a
insectoid race called the Poicxh for my Beyond campaign. The Poicxh
originally existed in what would become Aslan space. They had jump drive
capability before the Aslan. In a series of wars they lost due to their
inability to handle Aslan ground forces and marines. Their largely
intact naval pulled the survivors out and crossed the rift, eventually
settling in the Beyond sector. The Poicxh then destroyed their vessels,
and dug into their new homeworld, hoping never to see the Aslan again.
Having forgotten their had once jump drive future Poicxh re-acquired
jump capability from humanity traders. Which turned out to be
fortunate, as the Aslan finally crossed the rift and re-started the
Poicxh/Aslan war again.
darkhstarr
Chris Seamans wrote:
>
> From: Ingo Heinscher
>
> > Hi!
> >
> > I was asking myself why the hundreds of minor races in OTU never
> > developed (or improved) the jump drive technology on their own.
> > Especially in the years(centuries!) before the Vilani Consolidation
> > wars, at least one or two races should have been able to invent
> > jump-2 or even j-3. Given the fact that most of these races were
> > initially _not_ under cultural influence by the tech-cautious Vilani,
> > they should have done a bit of their own research, especially during
> > the COnsolidation wars.
>
> Nearly every culture on earth *could* have developed firearms technology
> pretty early, but they didn't. Babbage designed, but never built, a funky
> 19th century computer. The U.S. landed on the moon and nobody's gone back
> yet in what, 30 years or so?
>
> An easy fix is to make the claim that jump drives require research and
> thinking on a completely different paradigm. My impression is that jump
> research is a rough thing for a scientist to wrap his or her head around.
> Even once a society is given jump technology, there's nothing to say that
> they can just start tinkering with it like an internal combustion engine.
>
> We are dealing with a technology which can punch a ship into *another
> dimension*, after all. Imagine what would happen if a real world research
> facility were to begin to do research into jump-drive technology and you
> heard about it tommorow. How many scientists do you think would immediately
> claim that the research was bunk?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 08:31:36 -0600
From: Michael Maley
Subject: Re: Psionic/jump drives
Hmm. I had heard of jump space sickness, but hadn't read about it. I
had assumed in was canonical since I don't have a lot of MT or TNE.
darkhstarr
Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
>
> On Sat, 11 Mar 2000 23:39:27 -0500 (EST), Stormhound
> wrote:
>
> >Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
>
> >> Jump sickness is also a manifestation of this; it
> >> represents an attempt by the brain to 'rationalize' the 'failed
> >> activation' of the psionic centers of the brain. In a small
> >> number of people, the activation is actually successful.
>
> > Begging your pardon...jump sickness? My brain is floundering on that...is
> >this something discussed somewhere in canon, or a general YMMV topic of
> >discussion?
> > Not that I have anything against it...I rather like the notion, in fact.
> >I'd just appreciate being pointed toward somewhere with more detail. :)
>
> Hmmm... that's a good question. I _think_ it's mentioned in a
> source that's at least deuterocanonical, but I wouldn't swear to
> it - it's certainly not something that I originated, and equally
> certainly something that I've accepted as valid throughout...
>
> --
> Jeff Zeitlin
> jzeitlin@cyburban.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 14:36:33 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: The Mire Run
On Sun, 12 Mar 2000 23:08:33 +1100, "Katharine Whitchurch"
wrote:
>To be continued ... it's late and writing brochures is competing with me
>watching my footy team on TV (Sydney Swans vs St Kilda ... Swannies up by 2
>goals in the first quarter of the first match of the post-Lockett era).
>
Dammit! Just when I was really getting into it!
- - Jeff Peterson (j_pete@bellsouth.net)
"There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven."
-Ecclesiastes 3:1
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
NOG #74 AirStar Nova 700
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 08:38:29 -0600
From: Michael Maley
Subject: Re: Jump Sickness
I like it.
darkhstarr
Paul Campbell wrote:
>
> This is a draft of some rules I threw together on the subject. Note that the
> References may not be exhaustive.
> The game rules are probably a bit heavy handed, and are for GT.
> --
> JUMP SICKNESS
>
> Jump Sickness is mentioned in a nember of texts associated with Traveller.
> However nowhere have I seen any detail regarding it. So I have taken
> all the information available to me and provide these guidelines for
> managing Jump Sickness in your Traveller game.
>
> REFERENCES
>
> SOM DGP Starship Operator's Manual
> SIII GURPS: Space 3rd Edition
>
> QUOTES
>
> SOM8: 'Violent Jump Exits: ...can cause...[in] more extreme cases...can
> cause crew members to go insane...'
>
> SOM11: '...about half the crew had spent the week coughing up their guts
> in the freshers.' '...the field deformation extended too far into the
> room, and he died a few days later of jump sickness.'
>
> SOM14: '...getting close to the jump field with little intervening
> protection has dangerous effects on most lifeforms. Most go temporarily
> insane if they get within a few centimeters of a jump field barrier,
> and some never recover or even die from its effects.'
>
> SOM14: 'In cases of misjump, however, the instances of nausea and similar
> discomforts often increase. An unusual number of such complaints is
> taken very seriously, as it often is the first indication that a misjump
> has occurred.'
>
> SIII39: 'FTL Side Effects: Mental Effects: Mental distress: Those who miss
> their IQ rolls - attempted at GM-chosen time intervals during FTL travel - are
> plagued by nightmares or mild headaches. The result if -1 (or more) to IQ.'
>
> SIII39: 'FTL Side Effects: Mental Effects: Psychic distress: Travelers must
> make IQ rolls to resist constant delusions and manic impulses. They may avoid
> this if heavily medicated or in freeze.'
>
> NOTES
>
> The key points taken from these quotes are:
>
> '...go insane...'
>
> '...coughing up their guts...'
>
> '...died...of jump sickness.'
>
> '...temporarily insane...some never recover or even die...'
>
> '...nausea and similar discomforts...'
>
> EFFECTS
>
> Insanity
>
> Nausea
>
> Vomiting
>
> GAME RULES
>
> 1. Determine cause of Jump Sickness and Severity
>
> Jump Sickness is often caused by a fault in the tumble during transition
> to jumpspace. Getting too close to the Jump Field Bubble can also bring
> about Jump Sickness. Depending on the Cause of Jump Sickness and the
> degree of the Fault, determines how severe the Jump Sickness will be.
>
> (See Modifier at bottom of table)
>
> Roll (2D) JF Exposure Bad Tumble
> 2- No Effect No Effect
> 3 HT+4, IQ+2 HT+2, IQ+4
> 4 HT+3, IQ+1 HT+1, IQ+3
> 5 HT+2, IQ HT , IQ+2
> 6 HT+1, IQ-1 HT-1, IQ+1
> 7 HT , IQ-2 HT-2, IQ
> 8 HT-1, IQ-3 HT-3, IQ-1
> 9 HT-2, IQ-4 HT-4, IQ-2
> 10 HT-3, IQ-5 HT-5, IQ-3
> 11 HT-4, IQ-6 HT-6, IQ-4
> 12+ HT-5, IQ-7 HT-7, IQ-5
>
> Modifiers: -3 Trivial, -1 Minor, +0 Moderate, +1 Serious, +2 Dangerous,
> +3 Disasterous
>
> When a situation arrises that brings the quality of the tumble into
> question, or a character gets too close to the Jump Field Bubble, decide
> how severe the situation is, from Trivial to Disasterous. Roll on the
> above table and read the target from the appropriate column.
>
> For each character at risk, have them roll HT and IQ as appropriate.
> On failure, not by how much the roll was missed. If they succeed at the
> HT roll, they don't experience any Nausea or Vomiting. If they success
> at the IQ roll, they don't suffer and mental illness. If anyone fails
> both rolls they are subject to both maladys. As you can see from the
> table, JF Exposure is more likely to bring about Insanity than Nausea,
> and a Bad Tumble is more likely to cause Nausea than Insanity.
>
> For Nausea effects goto 2
>
> For Insanity effects goto 3
>
> 2. Nausea
>
> Characters who have become succeptable to Nausea only begin Vomiting if they
> missed the roll by 3 or more. Lower their HT by the amount they missed the
> roll. If this causes someone's HT to drop to 0 they are in need of immediate
> attention, or they may risk chocking in their unconscious state.
>
> For each day roll their effective HT, +4 if being attended to by a medic
> full time, +2 if part-time. A Critical Success succeeds on throwing of
> the Sickness, HT is recovered normally. On a Success they may recover
> +1 HT, +2 if being attended by a medic. A Failure loses 1 HT unless
> attended by a medic. A Critical Failure, indicates a serious lapse and
> the loss of D6 HT.
>
> If HT drops below HT-3 vomiting begins. Once HT return to within 3 of the
> starting HT, vomiting ceases unless their is a lapse. Once HT is back to
> normal the Sickness is gone.
>
> Anyone still suffering from Jump Sickness when the Jump finishes, gets an
> additional +4 to their daily HT rolls.
>
> 3. Insanity
>
> Characters who have become succeptable to Insanity only begin suffering a
> psychosis if they missed the roll by 3 or more. Lower their IQ by the amount
> they missed the roll. Their IQ at this point is the IQ to roll against each
> day. If this causes someone's IQ to drop to 0 they enter a catatonic state.
>
> For each day roll against their modified IQ, as determined above. On a
> Critical Success the character succeeds in throwing of the malady, IQ is
> recovered at 2 points a day, rising to 4 once the Jump is finished. On a
> Success they may recover 1 point of IQ. A Failure loses 1 IQ. A Critical
> Failure indicates a serious lapse and the loss of D6 IQ, they are also at risk
> of permanent damage, goto 5. Permanent Psychosis.
>
> If IQ drops below IQ-3 they will develop a psychosis, goto 4. Psychosis. Once
> IQ returns to within 3 of the starting IQ, the psychosis will fade. Once IQ
> returns to it's original value they have completly recoverd.
>
> 4. Psychosis
>
> Should a character's IQ drop to less than IQ-3 they aquire a temporary
> Disadvantage. You can roll on one of the following tables. Alternatively you
> can just select one or invent your own.
>
> Sample Psychosis
>
> Roll (2D) Quirk or Disadvantage
> 2 Mouth gets dry when about the enter Jump Space
> 3 You must always be awake or asleep entering Jump Space
> 4 You believe Good and/or Evil lives in Jump Space
> 5 You must give an offering to Jump Space every trip
> 6 You must sing loudly entering Jump Space
> 7 Distractible
> 8 Dreamer
> 9 Dull
> 10 Incompetence
> 11 Staid
> 12 Uncongenial
>
> Roll (2D) -5 Mental Disadvantage
> 2 Compulsive Behaviour
> 3 Delusion (Minor)
> 4 Pyromania - To keep the monsters in your mind at bay
> 5 Edgy
> 6 Guilt Complex - good if others died from Jump Sickness
> 7 Incurious
> 8 Loner
> 9 Nightmares
> 10 Post-Combat Shakes
> 11 Voices
> 12 Workaholic
>
> Roll (3D) -10 Mental Disadvantage
> 3 Stuttering (Physical Disadvantage)
> 4 Bad Temper
> 5 Bloodlust
> 6 Cowardice
> 7 Delusion (Major)
> 8 Impulsiveness
> 9 Overconfidence
> 10 Paranoia
> 11 Phobia
> 12 Split Personality
> 13 Confused
> 14 Indecisive
> 15 Low Self-Image
> 16 Reclusive
> 17 Short Attention Span
> 18 Solipsist
>
> 5. Permanent Psychosis
>
> Should a character suffer a Critical Failure as mentioned in 3. Insanity, they
> should make an IQ+2 roll. A Critical Success means they don't suffer any side
> effects. A Success lets the character away with only a Quirk or 1 point Mental
> Disadvantage. A Failure gives the character a 5 point Mental Disadvantage. A
> Critical Failure gives the character a 10 point Mental Disadvantage.
>
> Irrespective of any Permenent Psychosis, the character's IQ will eventually
> recover to its original level.
>
> --
> Paul Campbell
> kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 13:43:41 -0600
From: Rob Eaglestone
Subject: Re: Non-random Character Generation is Easy
I'd like to add to Mr. Ludowick's fine post:
It's easy to have non-random chargen. And there's more than one
way to do it.
1. Pick your character. Pick every stat, every skill. Verify
it with your Referee.
2. Use GURPS. It has plenty 'o templates. Verify the final
product with your Referee.
3. Do it the fun way: roll your own based on MegaTraveller or
some variant:
3a. Decide on your character's age.
3b. Grant one point per year of age.
3c. Determine stats:
3c-1. basic stats are 777777 automagically.
3c-2. increasing a stat by 1 costs (stat level) points.
(yes, it's expensive)
3c-3. decreasing a stat by 1 credits you (stat level) points.
(use this to help offset stat increases elsewhere)
3d. Determine skills:
3d-1. the character may have [int + edu] skills (?)
3d-1. new skills cost one point.
3d-2. skill improvement costs (level of skill + 1) points.
For example, Eneri has Brawling-2. To increase this
skill costs 2 + 1 = 3 points.
3e. 'Buy' ranks the same way.
3f. 'Buy' benefits the same way. Referee can figure out a
point price for benefits... or just be reasonable ;)
4. Do it some other way.
That's it. How much easier can it get?
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 14:50:03 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: Random Chargen for GT (was: Re: 4 Bad Things....)
On Sat, 11 Mar 2000 11:05:15 -0600, Black ICE
wrote:
>Pete wrote:
>>
><>
>> >
>> One of the beauties of GT is you have a wealth of GURPS supplements
>> and world books you can steal from. Cyber/nano/biotech rules already
>> exist and can be used as is or customized how you see fit. This is one
>> reason I shouted "WOO WHOO" when I found out about GT. After the
>> demise of GDW I didn't do much RPGing until a couple years ago when I
>> got into GURPS. I really enjoyed the flexibility of it. Then I found
>> GT and got back into Traveller in a big way. The only thing I find
>> lacking in GT is a random chargen.
>>
>If you are a subscriber to _Pyramid_ (or, IIRC, now JTAS also [I haven't
>subscribed yet]), you can check the archives for a random chargen system
>for GT.
>
>The article is "Some Classic Randomness", by Robert M. Brown.
I found that article as a FREE sample! I did a web search of the title
and found it at http://sjgames.com/pyramid/sample.cgi?462. It's not
exactly what I'm looking for but it's a good place to start building
my own.
- - Jeff Peterson (j_pete@bellsouth.net)
"There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven."
-Ecclesiastes 3:1
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
NOG #74 AirStar Nova 700
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 14:00:30 -0600
From: Rob Eaglestone
Subject: Re: First post (caveat poster!)
Welcome, Dale!
Just be sure not to mention Virus-infected nanites living
within custom Cybergear flying on a 10-dton jump-capable
asteroid moving (with the aid of thruster plates) at near-C
velocities carrying a team of female Aslan pirates in
comfortable shoes.
Just kidding. Post whatever you like.
Rob
Dale Gyles wrote:
>
> Hello everyone! This is my first post anywhere, although I have been a
> member of of the TML since this last summer. I have been refereeing
> Traveller since 1980, but alas I have never been able to play a game. I
> have really enjoyed the TML. It has been an invaluable resource for my
> current campaign.
>
> Dale Gyles, in Great Falls, MT
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Dale Gyles
> Black Eagle, MT
> gyles@mtn-webtech.com
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 10:18:25 -0500
From: "Josh W. Spencer"
Subject: Re: Yaskodray
Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
> Especially considering that two of the variants Lovecraft himself used
> in "the Call of Cthulhu" are Kthulhut and K'too'loo.
NOW I start to wonder...has anyone ever incorporated Call of Cthulhu into
Traveller, and what were the overall results?
- --
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)
VILANI ALIAS: Iashir Rekiinikimas Uiagam
Ypsilanti, Michigan, North America, Terra
Sol Subsector, Solomani Rim Sector
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 07:30:54 -0800
From: "Jesse LaBranche"
Subject: Re: Robots & stuff (was Re: Clif Tactics and Questions)
Hello Alan,
Thanks for the response to my questions :-)
> > From: "Jesse LaBranche"
> > I am running a campaign that takes place on Earth a bit in the
> > future, but not as far as the Imperium.
> TNE:
> Fire, Fusion & Steel: Vehicles, cybernetics and more toys than you can
> imagine. T2K v2.2 compatible.
> Alan Bradley
> alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
This one came up a lot when I presented my questions to the
T2k list as well. Can anyone give me a "product review" and/or
"table of contents" on this one?
Thanks.
Jesse.
vanquer@email.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 10:32:44 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: Modern Traveller
In a message dated 3/11/00 2:42:43 PM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
> Kagehira had said
>
> > Cybertech already exists in Traveller, though not heavily used, as is
some
> > biotech. Most of this was done in the MT rules set.
>
> Which books were these? I only bought the core rules, but don't remember
of
> these. Point me to the titles I need to look for on eBay!
>
> Tony
The cybertech rules were published in 2 or 3 parts in Traveller's Digest by
Terry McInnes. It included some biotech material IIRC. There was also a
cybertech computer implant in one of the JTAS'es (see website at
members.aol.com\kagekiha\traveller for an index) by Andrew Keith.
Plus, most of the cybertech/biotech from Shadowrun is easily adaptable to CT.
Maybe MT.
Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 07:22:39
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Leroy/Secret Knowledge
At 09:03 PM 3/11/2000 EST, you wrote:
>Doug Berry writes:
>Let me guess -- the proof of this statement was that his proposal for GURPS
>Teletubbies was turned down? Or had he ever bothered to make an inquiry? Ort
>is this based on something a friend's cousin's dentist's college roomate's
>drinking buddy's brother told him?
Evidently he was pissed because y'all wouldn't buy his GURPS Lord of the
Rings book. You read that one right.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 07:29:10
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Re Still going in the Late 3I
At 12:31 PM 3/11/2000 -0900, you wrote:
>>ObTrav: Besides Pepsi Cola (already mentioned in several posts), what
>>current Terran corporations, if any, still exist in the various TUs
>>represented on this list? Further, in which polity are any such
>>corporations headquartered?
>>
>IMTU: Jack Daniels, Guiness. Intel. IBM.
IMTU: Harley-Davidson
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 07:34:29
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Staff Officers
At 07:56 PM 3/10/2000 -0900, you wrote:
> Personell (only in really big units...)
In the US Army, you find the S-1 (Personel) office as far down as the
battalion level.
> Public Affairs (only in really big or well known or isolated units...)
Once again, for the Army, you can find this down to Brigade level,but it is
a permanent fixture at the Division level.
> Historian (only in really big units...)
Usually unofficial, often handled by veteran groups.
>In an infantry unit, the CO is the tactical leader. There is seldom a
>deputy commander, besides the Exec (XO). The staff suqad may be filled with
>officers specialized in the areas, or may be infantry types cross trained.
At the infantry compnay, there are six officers, the CO (O-3), the XO
(O-2), and four platoon leaders (O-1 or 2) All "staff functions are
carried out by NCOs.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 07:35:13
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Teletubbies - Subliminal Programming (#include )
At 10:25 AM 3/12/2000 +0000, you wrote:
>Just picking up on a few references to Teletubbies. Has anyone ever
>accidentally turned over to the Teletubbies and found themselves transfixed,
>waiting desperatley for even a shred of a plot to appear?
Teletubbies on acid. Tust me on this. :P
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 07:40:03
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
At 02:15 PM 3/11/2000 -0700, you wrote:
>Plus there's the old standbys: gambling, hookers and protection rackets.
>The latter don't need _any_ illegal thing, merely a modicum of
>organization, and small shop owners to terrorize.
Then there's the oldest trick in the book. Corrupt longshoremen. You either
pay the pad, or your cargo doesn't get unloaded, or it falls of the truck,
and you are left with nothing.
Since I never got paid for it, I shpuld polish off Strike! and put it up on
the site.. it touched on many of these subjects.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 07:47:15
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
At 06:04 PM 3/11/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>1) "The Mafia is a myth. Its a racist stereotype spread against those of
>us from Sicilian-Solomani ancestry. So fuggid about it. Sure, we Sicilian-
>Solomani have a strong sense of familia, and we like our pasta, and sure,
>we have lots of guns, but who doesn't these days? We just protect our
>families and our people."
Thank you, Joey Colombo. :)
>> So, who is THE GODFATHER--The most powerful person/family in the 3rd
>> Imperium ?
>
>Who ever is closest to you. The Imperium is too big for one. Even
>Don Corleone (sp?) was only the Godfather of New York.
And in reality, the saga of the Gambino family shows the perils of trying
to control even that much territory.
I would imagine that a well-organized, powerful syndicate (a better term
than Mafia, BTW), could control a single subsector. This would presume that
all their serious rivals had been "removed."
An underworld war would make for a powerful campaign setting. Even if the
characters aren't directly involved, the fallout can affect the characters
in major ways.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"When you're raised by the Jesuits, you
end up obedient or impertinent."
- Asst DA Jack McCoy, _Law And Order_
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2059
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Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #2059
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Subj: Traveller-digest V1999 #2060
Date: 3/12/00 10:37:18 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)
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Traveller-digest Sunday, March 12 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2060
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Yaskodray
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: Staff Officers
Re: Jump Drives
Re: Life at pH 0.05....
Re: Drakarans- canonical?
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: Jump Sickness
Re: Re Still going in the Late 3I
Re: Re Vilani Life-spans
Re: Imperial expansion to trailing
Re: Minor races and jump drive
The fix was in from the start (was: some stupid Traveller-digest)
Re: Tokaji Azsu 6 petunias
Re: New Zealand air farce
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ? (long - sorry but it happens)
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: Re Still going in the Late 3I
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: Random Chargen for GT (was: Re: 4 Bad Things....)
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 07:57:39
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Yaskodray
At 10:18 AM 3/12/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>NOW I start to wonder...has anyone ever incorporated Call of Cthulhu into
>Traveller, and what were the overall results?
The Cthulthu Mythos is an intregal part of the Illuminated Traveller page,
which I am writing as fast as I can.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 07:48:48
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
At 06:14 PM 3/11/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>
>"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
>
>> What makes it fun is having several crime groups in the same area. Here
>>in SF we have Tongs, Vietnamese street gangs, honest to God Mafioso,
>>yakuza.. all trying to control the same slices of the pie. It has led to a
>>shadow war of some proportions.
>
>Hehe. You know why the mafia isn't really established in Los
>Angeles don't you? The police beat them to it. :-P
*grin* There's another good angle; you go to the cops, and find out that
hey're on the take...
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 10:55:51 -0500
From: "David J. Golden"
Subject: Re: Staff Officers
At 07:56 pm 3/10/00 -0900, you wrote:
>Historically, it has happened that the highest ranking officer
aboard a
>ship is a staffer... and the command did not fall to him, but to a
lower
>ranked (the highest of the) unrestricted line types.
From my annual Law of Armed Conflict briefing: Legally, in a POW
camp with a non-Line Colonel (say, a doctor) and a line second
lieutenant, fresh from ROTC, 1 day in country before capture, the
line 2LT is the commanding POW ... unless the camp contains ENTIRELY
medical corps personnel. Non-line officers cannot command line
officers, period.
Incidentally, the Air Force doesn't distinguish between Line (nav,
etc.) Restricted (engineering, etc) and non-Line (legal, etc.). R&D
types, civil engineers, pilots, admin officers, etc. are all Line.
Medical Corps, Biomedical Services Corps, Legal are non-line.
*Technically* any line officer should be capable of doing any job.
Guess who is always considered "more capable" for command positions
... that's why pilot's wings are called the "Universal Management
Badge" ...
- -- Cthulhu in 2000! Why settle for the lesser evils?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 11:06:39 -0500
From: "David J. Golden"
Subject: Re: Jump Drives
At 09:59 pm 3/11/00 EST, you wrote:
><< Ingo, I hate to break this to you, but as far as Jump Drive goes,
the fix
> was in from the start.
>
> Every culture that developed jump drive had a carefully-seeded set
of
> almost-working, easy to copy examples in their home system. >>
>
>This is not in keeping with my feelings on the matter. YMMV.
>
>Loren Wiseman
> gdwgames@aol.com
> lkw@io.com
See, this is what I like about Traveller. One of the True Great Old
Ones, the Progenitors, comes out to answer a question with a 'canon
statement' ... that basically ends with " but whatever you like in
YOUR game is fine."
- -- Cthulhu in 2000! Why settle for the lesser evils?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 10:53:48 -0500
From: "Garry Ward"
Subject: Re: Life at pH 0.05....
looks like we've managed to breed a Horta (Classic Trek, "Devil in the Dark"
- -----Original Message-----
From: Leonard Erickson
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: Saturday, March 11, 2000 4:11 PM
Subject: Re: Life at pH 0.05....
>In mail you write:
>
>> from my daily paper (posted here since the public access goes away after
>> a day)
>>
>> All I can say is "wow"
>>
>> Iron-devouring microbe blamed for
>> toxic runoff
>>
>> WASHINGTON (AP) - A super bug that eats iron and can
>> thrive in the equivalent of battery acid may be a major
>> culprit in causing toxic metal and acid runoff from a
>> California mine, researchers say.
>>
>> Katrina J. Edwards, a geomicrobiologist at Woods Hole
>> Oceanographic Institution, said the previously unknown
>> microbe lives on leftover iron-rich minerals and sulfide in a
>> California mine. It gives off sulfuric acid, a chemical that
>> leaches heavy metals and causes deadly concentrations of
>> acid-metal pollution in mine runoff.
>
>
>
>Seems to *me* that the bright thing to do is *encourage* the little
>buggers, and process the runoff for the metal content!
>
>They've been using bacterially aided "leaching" to process some
>minerals for a while, and this puppy looks like a godsend. It'd do far
>better than the current strains.
>
>ObTrav: consider this, and similar bugs from other planets. They'd be
>useful in mining, but *hell* if they got released in the wrong places.
>
>ps. I have to admit to finding this bug kinda funny. It means that a
>lot of the nasty evil mine runoff that various environmental groups are
>complaining about may well be a matter of us having providing better
>living conditions for an organism. :-)
>
>--
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 11:28:21 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: Re: Drakarans- canonical?
I believe I was thinking of the Adduxar (From AM4 Zhodani ) I found the
reference on the AAB web alien racelist.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 08:44:51 -0800
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan"
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
>>"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
>>
>>> What makes it fun is having several crime groups in the same area. Here
in SF we have Tongs, Vietnamese street gangs, honest to God Mafioso,
yakuza.. all trying to control the same slices of the pie. It has led to a
shadow war of some proportions.
>>
>>Hehe. You know why the mafia isn't really established in Los Angeles
don't you? The police beat them to it. :-P
>>
>*grin* There's another good angle; you go to the cops, and find out that
they're on the take...
>
Well, there are always yakuza in my games...
LOL, Kiri
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God...
tiamat@tsoft.com
"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is
sacred somewhere. There's a deity out there who digs it. You can respect
and love your darkest side, disposing of only what is obsolete or
impractical. It's all about giving yourself permission."
-- Jack Darkhand
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 11:49:46 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re: Jump Sickness
Jump sickness dates from the early days, but is a rare phenomenon due to one
major factor: Those with sufficient exposure to "raw" jumpspace are usually
on a doomed ship, and never see normal space again.
An early JTAS had a news item on one of the few such incidents to be
survived by the ship and witnesses. I think two of the exposed survived the
Jump, but one died in the hospital. The other's fate was never revisited. I
would tend to refer to this as "Jumpspace Trauma."
Another variety is more like a "Jump Allergy." This is what the Jgd-'l-Jagd
have, what those on too much anagathics can eventually contract (TNE), and
which some very small fraction of normally Jump-capable races suffer from. It
is also usually fatal...
The third type, often called "Jump Sickness," results from a 'bad' jump.
Either a wrenching entrance into J-space or some other factor caused by a
misjump creates widespread malaise onboard the hapless ship. The type usually
inflicted on PC ships is extreme nausea and a lot of time praying to the
porcelain god. "Jump Sickness" of this sort is late Canon, IIRC, and may be
best documented in DGP and/or TNE materials.
GC
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 08:57:28 -0800
From: "Jesse LaBranche"
Subject: Re: Re Still going in the Late 3I
> IMTU: Harley-Davidson
> Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
Lol. I just got this really vivid impression of a huge
cat-guy kicked back on a hovercycle with a pair of
mirrored shades, leathers, and bandana over head.
Later.
Jesse.
vanquer@email.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 08:54:44 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Re Vilani Life-spans
At 12:39 11.03.00 -0900, William F. Hostman wrote:
>> I
>>mean, 335 years, that's three times a Vilani's life span...
>
>Using the V&V aging mods, I've had vilani who life to be 200+. Typically,
>it should work out to about 125-150 years for pure vilani. (A +4 on aging
>saves is mighty powerful.)
:-)
Okay, so it's two Vilani life spans. Damn, they really can get _old_. I
forgot that.
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 08:47:41 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Imperial expansion to trailing
At 15:59 11.03.00 GMT, Pete wrote:
>On Sat, 04 Mar 2000 12:33:23 -0800, "James W. Lindsay"
> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 4 Mar 2000 15:12:56 +0000, SD Mooney wrote:
>>
>>> The Missouri Archive has a GIF map (by leroy?) showing the mains in
>>> known space.
>>
>>It does? Can't seem to find it...
>>
>Did anyone answer this question? I tried to watch for it but it may
>have been lost in all that "Traveller is Dead" crap.
*sigh*
Some one recently posted a URL to his home page, where you can find a
V&V-style map with the positions of every single star system in the
Imperium by 1115.
http://www.geocities.com/ac_jackson/trav/maps.html
It's really great, including information on the populations and economies.
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 08:53:39 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Minor races and jump drive
At 13:56 11.03.00 -0700, Bruce Johnson wrote:
[snip]
>All of this points to the logical conclusion that _all_ jump drives in use
>today are derived from Grandfather's original designs. For this to be at
>all plausible, then even the Major races MUST have reverse engineered
>their first drives from existing Ancient examples.
>
>It also implies that Grandfather is still paying attention to our
>Universe, and in fact, may well have not withdrawn to his pocket to
>_escape_ our universe but to _remove_ himself and his influence from it,
>so that he could continue to meddle with it in a controlled fashion.
This explanation would imply that jump drive technolgy is actually not TL9
but much higher, when it comes to _understand_ the mechanics. Sorry, but I
don't like this approach.
>Or maybe the universe is a Giant game of Pocket Empires, played by
>Grandfather and some of his cronies on Saturday nights over pretzels and
>beer and they're using a uniform ship design system :-)
A uniform ship design system? Come on, they can't be _that_ intelligent!
:-)
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 09:00:53 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: The fix was in from the start (was: some stupid Traveller-digest)
At 13:50 11.03.00 -0800, James W. Lindsay wrote:
>On Sun, 12 Mar 2000 08:23:01 +1100, Katharine Whitchurch wrote:
>
>> > From: Ingo Heinscher
>> > Subject: Minor races and jump drive
>> >
>>
>>
>> > Has anyone another idea why the minor races are obviously less able in
>> jump
>> > drive affairs? A hundred or more minor races, not one of them could
>> develop
>> > a better jump drive than the early Vilani...
>> >
>>
>> Ingo, I hate to break this to you, but as far as Jump Drive goes, the fix
>> was in from the start.
>>
>> Every culture that developed jump drive had a carefully-seeded set of
>> almost-working, easy to copy examples in their home system.
>>
>> Basically, modern jump drives are monkey-copies of Ancient artificacts up
>> until you start hitting about TL16-17. And Bad Things keep happening to
>> cultures that get to TL16-17 (eg Star Trigger, Black War Rebellion).
>
>Is this actually "canon"? I've always thought that it was nothing more
>than a TML theory, although there is some evidence in the Droyne Coyns...
I someow did not receive Katharine Whitechurch's posting (probably an
intercontinetal connection problem via SMTP. I notice this from time to
time on this list), so I will answer both here.
I aggree with James that is not canon, but a theory. And IMHO a theroy that
is good for explaing why some of those races were "the first" to develop
jump drive.
But: Once that technology leaked across the borders of the early Vilani
Economic sphere, I would have expected just _one_ other non-human race (the
Vegans?) to improve the original design on their own.
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 01:57:20 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Tokaji Azsu 6 petunias
In mail you write:
> In a message dated 00-03-10 00:01:07 EST, you write:
>
> << I'm just thinking, though - I'd _love_ to see SJGames's file of
> this kind of stuff - I'm practically green with envy over how
> much they must have backlogged... :) >>
>
> Right now we are considering something along the lines of a Library Data
> file of every LD entry in canon, acessible through JTAS.
If you can spare the manpower, doing at least minmal hypertext linking
would be *greatly* apreciated. Making the whole thing, links and
downloadable (even if it was an extra fee) would be even better.
It'd also be a good start on the sort of reference that writers for the
game *need*.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 09:49:29 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: New Zealand air farce
In mail you write:
> If Harriers were less tempermental and weren't a British design, I'd have
> picked them. (Nothing wrong with the British, hell, I am one, but if you've
> ever worked on British aircraft, you'd know why I'd rather not have them.
Good grief, I didn't know that Lucas (aka "the Prince of Darkness") did
aircraft electrical systems as well as doing automotive ones.
(Actually, when speaking of Lucas, the proper phrase might be "as badly
as" :-)
For those for whom the above makes no sense, allow me to explain.
Lucas is a British company that is *notorious*, as they make the (very,
very *bad*) electrical systems for most British autos (or at least they
used to). Calling their systems "failure prone" is a *compliment*.
ObTrav: The Imperium may have a few companies equally notorious for
poor quality due to being the *only* supplier in a region (and thus
able to have a "take it or leave it" attitude).
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 11:59:57 -0600
From: "Pat Connaughton"
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ? (long - sorry but it happens)
At 06:14 PM 3/11/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>
>"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
>
>> What makes it fun is having several crime groups in the same area. Here
>>in SF we have Tongs, Vietnamese street gangs, honest to God Mafioso,
>>yakuza.. all trying to control the same slices of the pie. It has led to a
>>shadow war of some proportions.
>
Criminal and shadow organizations such as the one mentioned above, the Cosa
Nostra, the Tongs, The Unione Corse, The Yakuza in many cases developed out
of groups created to fight an underground war or resistance to invaders, to
discommode an occupier, or during a wartime environment. The interesting
fact is that they then turn these skills into the "private" sector when the
originating stimuli is removed.
Criminal organizations which do not find themselves based upon such a
idealistic tradition are usually created or evolve in response to a vacuum
of power or authority,
as well as a lack of desire to police a particularly nasty piece of group.
Two examples that come to mind are the bootlegging gangs of the Prohibition
and the criminal stews/dens of Regency London.
I note that, there are always entertaining examples of "gentlemen "
criminals, Jay Gatsby types who would only traffic one type of illegal
goods, leaving the rest to less
scrupulous souls and thus retaining some sense of moral high ground.
There is also the criminal organization which is created by a conventional
business operation which through either greed or desperation begins to
sidestep the rules and being successful at it, then proceeds to accelerate
the process. As noted elsewhere on the list, many folks believe that most
mega-corps follow this practice. IMTU there are a myriad of fairly focused
enforcement agencies working against this trend. Sometimes it works -
sometimes not.
It is logical to assume that as we are seeing today the amalgamation or
merging of various criminal types of groups to develop some very interesting
hybrids.
With somewhat long statement, (sorry I do get a bit verbose), I'd like to
throw two concepts into the discussion.
1. In a galactic cicvilization with as many different philosophies,
mindsets, backgrounds and cultures. Surely a new concept or form(s) of
criminal organization could develop or evolve. In some many games, books and
(sic) movies the "mafia"
are usually little more than "gussied" up versions of the present day
entities or a fast forwarded version of the AD&D Thieves Guild or Assassins
Guild. Not that these are not
fully effective and functional groups. I use them myself but I'd hope and
like to see the possibility of something different. Does anyone have any
other thoughts or ideas on this? Please advise (on or off list)
2. Consider the effect of anagathics and/or clone insurance upon a
criminal organization (or any military style entity for that matter but
we'll stick with criminal groups for this discussion). I've spoken with many
people of military background and experience as well as having quite a few
friends in the law enforcement community and their baseline comment is
summarized as thus: if you could graft the knowledge and experience of a
veteran onto the body and reflexes of an 18 year old then you'd have a very
effective individual for a variety of uses. This is not as simple as it
sounds. The consequences would be fascinating. Also consider this - if you
have a particularly effective criminal leader who has access to effective
anagathics consider the skills and experiences developed over an extended
period of time. I believe that the Darwinian selection, laws of chance and
occasional bad luck combined with a basically effective
police force would limit the development of these critters but any one that
made it through - look out.
Any thoughts?
PS I believe that the author Elizabeth Moon is currently exploring this in
some of her books and there is also a fairly vigorous example of a
megacorp/criminal entity in her series of books called the "Black Scratch"
An entertaining read.
Thanks
Pat Connaughton
ICQ # 2535086
pconn@i1.net
"He who knows not how to dissemble knows not
how to reign"
Tiberius, Emperator and Princips of Rome
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 10:59:56 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Strictly speaking, Don Corleone was Godfather of the Five Families, who
were based virtue of their power (in the largest shipping port on the East
Coast, or in the US at the time), the other Families around the country
owed them respect, if not allegience.
Why...it's almost...almost..._feudal_...isn't it? ;-)
"Allow me to offer my respect on this great day of your coronation, Don
Zhunastu..."
Remember...this is the bunch that have a 'Succession by Assassination'
rule ;-)
Remember, too, that one of the dilemmas in "The Godfather" was that much
of Don Corelone's power derived from the polititians and judges he had in
his pocket, who owed him _personal_ allegience. It was unclear to the
other Family heads that this allegience would be transferred to Michael,
which lead to the big war at the end of the book.
Naaah, I haven't read that book too many times ;-)
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 10:20:52
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Re Still going in the Late 3I
At 08:57 AM 3/12/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>> IMTU: Harley-Davidson
>Lol. I just got this really vivid impression of a huge
>cat-guy kicked back on a hovercycle with a pair of
>mirrored shades, leathers, and bandana over head.
Actually, H-D does do some other things. Next time you fire up the
lawn-mower, take a close look at the engine...
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 10:23:10
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
At 10:59 AM 3/12/2000 -0700, you wrote:
>Why...it's almost...almost..._feudal_...isn't it? ;-)
>
>"Allow me to offer my respect on this great day of your coronation, Don
>Zhunastu..."
Two words: Medici Family.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 12:22:39 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Random Chargen for GT (was: Re: 4 Bad Things....)
On 03/12/00 at 02:50 PM, j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete) said:
>>The article is "Some Classic Randomness", by Robert M. Brown.
>I found that article as a FREE sample! I did a web search of the title
>and found it at http://sjgames.com/pyramid/sample.cgi?462. It's not
>exactly what I'm looking for but it's a good place to start building my
>own.
That what I said when I read it.
If you expand on it, do other careers, etc. please share it with us.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 11:33:45 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
On Sat, 11 Mar 2000, Thomas Vickers wrote:
> This I gotta disagree with. Look at the help the "Mafia" provided to the US
> government during WWII. They ensured the safe and continued operation of
> shipyards and wharfs in their areas, without nasty things like strikes and
> spies.
HAH!! That was STRICTLY quid pro quo. Luciano basically told the Feds that
there wouldn't be strikes, spies and sabotage IF ... (you fill in the
details...one of them was that Luciano was 'deported' to Sicily post war.)
That was pure garden-variety protection racketeering, albeit on a grand
scale.
Note, however, that the Mob lost in New York in the long run. Their most
valuable asset was control of the dockyards...they got greedy, so ships
stopped coming.
There's no way any existing mobster could wield the kind of control that
Luciano did. Even Gotti never controlled much beyond the Gambino family.
(what of the Gambino family he _did_ control)
Of course, once Hoover died, and the FBI could finally admit that the
Mafia existed, untie their hands the fight against the Mob got a lot more
even.
Unconstitutional laws such as the RICO act, and property siezure
laws (which derived from the RICO statutes, as 'proceeds from criminal
enterprises' _defined_ by the RICO statutes) helped as well.
While they've been extremely useful in nabbing obvious criminal
overlords, such as John Gotti, RICO laws have also lead to widespread
corruption in police forces, since they could now basically stop anyone
they felt wouldn't complain and shake them down for all their cash.
There was a sheriffs department in Florida (Volusia County as I recall)
that routinely did this to blacks, _particularly_ out of state blacks, on
I95. They raked in thousands and thousands of dollars this way.
If a drug sniffing dog alerts on your money on the border here, that's it,
you've been robbed, even though repeated studies have shown that cocaine
residue, detectable by dogs, is on something like 20-40% of American
currency. If you go to a bank machine and get $200 out...unless it's all
new bills, you're likely to be a positive hit if a dog sniffs your money.
There was a case here in Arizona of a police department hiring someone
whose _entire_ budget and salary were to be derived from whatever property
he could sieze. He finally tricked one poor car dealer into accepting a
'stolen' vehicle. Wham! The Douglas Police department owned three repair
shops, a car dealer ship and an auto parts store. Plus the guys own house,
money and cars.
ObTrav...obviously, lure the PC's into landing at a planetary Starport,
not an Imperial one, with lower berthing fees, better cargo deals, etc. Of
course that makes you subject to the local planet's laws regarding
smuggling. A crate in your hold once held green tea, viewed as the Devil's
Own Plaything on this world. That makes you guilty of no crime, but the
government can sieze everything as 'proceeds of criminal activity'.
Worse yet, Rimmer,Maintenence Crewman 3rd class likes green tea, and
has a small container of it in his stateroom.
WOW! Now you ARE all smugglers! They get your ship AND you. Off you go to
the widget factory, where as 'prisoner labor' you get to make 2000 Cr
widgets for 2 cr a day.
Your sentence is over when you can come up with the 25kcr fine you owe the
government.
Oh yeah...this is a world where they're 'tough on crime!(TM)'; they're not
_about_ to put you up for free, you worthless drain on the 'Holy
Taxpayer(TM)'! They'll deduct 90% of your earnings to pay for your room
and board.
(sorry for the cynical (TM)'s...it's gonna be a long hot campaign season
here in the US. I predict that by the time the last mud flies, they'll
have reduced the percentage of voters who bother to vote to single digits)
Vote For Cthulu 2000! Don't settle for the Lesser Evils!
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2060
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Traveller-digest Sunday, March 12 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2061
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: Re Still going in the Late 3I
Re: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
Re: Minor races and jump drive
Re: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
Re: Best rules system
Re: Minor races and jump drive
Re: Vilani history and mindset
Dale's comments about T4
Re: ULTIMATE REASON TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Re Still going in the Late 3I
Re: Vilani history and mindset (was:Re: The Low Jump Number Question)
Re: Lo-tek mercenaries
Re: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
Re: Cthulhu, Yaskodray, and the Maya (was Re: Yaskodray)
Re Hebden Bridge.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 11:36:35 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
On Sun, 12 Mar 2000, Bruce Johnson MT'ed horribly:
>
> Strictly speaking, Don Corleone was Godfather of the Five Families, who
> were based virtue of their power (in the largest shipping port on the East
> Coast, or in the US at the time), the other Families around the country
> owed them respect, if not allegience.
Argh what I _meant_ to say was "...the Five Families, who were based in
the Five Boroughs, who by virtue of their power..."
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 11:53:33 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Re Still going in the Late 3I
On Sun, 12 Mar 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> Actually, H-D does do some other things. Next time you fire up the
> lawn-mower, take a close look at the engine...
You must have different lawn-mowers that I've seen.
All the ones I've seen either say Craftsman, Black and Decker or Briggs
and Stratton on 'em. Not a V-Twin in the lot.
I just got a flash of some middle-aged guy sitting on a riding
mower, black socks, bermuda shorts and a leather jacket with "Darlington
Estates Mowerhogs" colors on it. (Feel free to insert the name of any
bland subdivision in your local suburbs..my absolute fave in the Tucson
area is 'Ranchos sin Vacas Estates'.)
I must go wash out my eyes now...
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 19:37:04 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
At 20:39 12.03.00 +1300, Rupert Boleyn wrote:
>Why do we have mottos in Latin?
Because the Roman empire once ruled what would later become the origins of
earth's dominant culture.
I know, there were a few guys from my home country who tried similar things
(twice), but AFAIK they were not _that_ successful, were they?
;-)
Or are you suggesting that this is about developments to come?
:-)
Well, I know a bit about both German society and German military. Believe me:
No interest here on that. Absolutely no interest. Even if there was
interst, the ability is even more absent.
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 19:21:42 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Minor races and jump drive
At 23:18 11.03.00 -0500, Chris Seamans wrote:
>From: Ingo Heinscher
>
>
>> Hi!
>>
>> I was asking myself why the hundreds of minor races in OTU never
>> developed (or improved) the jump drive technology on their own.
>> Especially in the years(centuries!) before the Vilani Consolidation
>> wars, at least one or two races should have been able to invent
>> jump-2 or even j-3. Given the fact that most of these races were
>> initially _not_ under cultural influence by the tech-cautious Vilani,
>> they should have done a bit of their own research, especially during
>> the COnsolidation wars.
>
>Nearly every culture on earth *could* have developed firearms technology
>pretty early, but they didn't. Babbage designed, but never built, a funky
>19th century computer. The U.S. landed on the moon and nobody's gone back
>yet in what, 30 years or so?
:)
On the latter one could really say something about economy.
>An easy fix is to make the claim that jump drives require research and
>thinking on a completely different paradigm. My impression is that jump
>research is a rough thing for a scientist to wrap his or her head around.
>Even once a society is given jump technology, there's nothing to say that
>they can just start tinkering with it like an internal combustion engine.
>
>We are dealing with a technology which can punch a ship into *another
>dimension*, after all. Imagine what would happen if a real world research
>facility were to begin to do research into jump-drive technology and you
>heard about it tommorow. How many scientists do you think would immediately
>claim that the research was bunk?
A lot. Until you have a working prototype. Then *every* physician would
want to work in that field or a related one. (Look at relativity for an
example).
And if you just know that some other race (the Vilani) have a working
jump-2 drive, you'd certainly start research on the matter, just for
survival/profit.
Anway, I think I've got my answer: Society, education systems and their
effect on the highest possible TL that is achievable by research alone.
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 19:31:24 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
At 15:37 12.03.00 +1000, Alan Bradley wrote:
>> So why should there be megacorps with names in languages nobody
>> understands?
>Well, first, it's only a theory that most languages will vanish. That is,
>in the OTU, it's wrong!
Obviously, to a certain degree. But why?
>I'm not going to discuss its merits as such - we
>can't prove it, and can only go around in circles.
Or wait two thousand years and review the matter.
:)
>The other thing is that spreading your population out over lots of worlds
>gives a different dynamic than if you have them all concentrated on a
>single world, with instantaneous communications. That is, each community
>could well maintain its identity to a much greater degree in the former
>case, than in the latter. This is even more likely if the latter half of
>"the coming thousand years" is part of the Long Night.
That is a very good point. So there were obviously several economically
flowering colonies(perhaps even a Long Night pocket empire?) with German
roots that were incorporated into the 3I and then founded several
megacorps. Sounds reasonable to me.(anything canonical know about this?)
>
>There is one slight problem though: the fact that German is being used
>might well be an artifact of the linguistic skills available to Traveller
>writers! This is probably reinforced by it being _bad_ German. It might
>make more sense if at least some Chinese, Japanese or other non-European
>languages were used - but skills in those languages tend to be a lot rarer
>among Traveller players, and presumably writers, than skills (even poor
>skills!) in European languages.
That's not fair. You can't blame OTU for the U.S. education system.
;-)
No, I feel more comfortable with an in-universe explanation.
>I've often wanted to use Chinese ship and world names, but I've never
>dared, because I would inevitably make a pig's ear of it.
"ISS Zahnarzt"?
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 19:53:14 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Best rules system
At 06:09 12.03.00 -0800, Jesse LaBranche wrote:
>1.How many versions of Traveller have been released at
>this point?
Well, CT, MT, TNE, T4, and GT. Five.
>2.Which game system does which version run on?
Each its respective own set of rules, except GT (which means "GURPS:
Traveller". Guess what rules system that one uses :) )
>3.What is the current version and game system in production?
GURPS: Traveller. Which I can personally recommend if you know GURPS (thoug
if you don't, just by the books you like and use any other rules set,
that's quite easy with those books). The various background books that have
been published are really _good_. (IMO, of course,and except for GT:Star
Mercs, which doesn't hlp my way of RPG'ing that much)
They publish quite a lot, AFAIK the line is quite succesfull for SJG, and
seems even to attract new fans.
There has also been a reprint of some of the LBB's(CT) recently. But I
can't help you here, I like GT.
[snip]
>4.What do you think are the strengths in your favorite version/
>system over the other ones in print?
We'll leave the answer to that question out, I suppose.
:-)
>5.What do you think they could have improved on in your
>favoirte version/system? Does another version/system have
>these improvements? How hard would the conversion be to
>do?
Well, I can say one thing: Converting any PC from any game system to GURPS
is quite easy if you want to convert the _idea_ and the rough skills of
that PC (You just make up a new PC, in a point-based system it's easy to do
this the way you like, and make it look like theone you had in that other
system before). I have _not_ tried out the conversion rules presented in GT
itself.
>6.Any other notes that you would care to let me know regarding
>which system would probably be the best to purchase?
Guess what, I suggest GT. :)
Not just because it's the Trav system currently in print, but also because
I like the rules, both the general GURPS ones and the Trav special ones.
Since you obviously plan to "make up your own system out of those you
know", I recommend you just use the GT background books. Only a very few
ruls-related passages are included there, the rest is background, and a lot
of it.
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 19:16:37 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Minor races and jump drive
At 13:29 12.03.00 +1100, AB wrote:
>Ingo Heinscher wrote:
>
>>Has anyone another idea why the minor races are obviously less able in jump
>>drive affairs? A hundred or more minor races, not one of them could develop
>>a better jump drive than the early Vilani...
>
>
>Some other possibilities:
>(2) May I point out, Captain, that the chances of success are 4.7x10E25 to
>1.
>
>Jump drive is such a fiendishly complicated thing that the chances of it
>being discovered and moved to implementation are minuscule. It requires an
>extremely rare combination of opportunity, pre-existing knowledge,
>inspiration and intellect for a sophont to make all the connections of ideas
>required and develop the theory that it just doesn't happen much.
Okay, so far. But assume you are a Vegan official just a few years after
your race has received jump drive technology from Vilani-influenced
traders, and you've heard that those Vilani, the original creators of that
technology, apparently have found a way to *double* the distance that can
be travelled with one jump. In addition, they seem to have started a war
sto subjugate any other race that has that technology. Wouldn't you want
your own scientists to find such a better drive system? And, given, say, a
hundred years (the Consolidation wars lasted almost 400 years), wouldn't
your scientist and/or your navy/your spies cooperatingly find a way to
reproduce that amazing tech?
>(3) Zuchai Crystals? Never heard of them.
This is actually true for me. I know anbout Lanthanum that is required for
ajump drive, but "Zuchai Crystals"?
>On some worlds or star systems Zuchai Crystals simply don't exist. As they
>are a vital component in jump drive, no Zuchai Crystals means no drive.
>They can be synthesised, but then you need that technology before you can
>develop jump technology (and if Zuchai Crystals have no other purpose than
>use in jump drives, why would you synthesise them in the first place?)
See above(2). After they have jump drives, they would normally make up
their minds to improve that tech somehow. IMO, of course.
>(4) We don't do that here.
>
>The Traveller universe background suggests that massive technological
>advancement is the exception rather than the rule. While the Vilani culture
>took this to extremes, the general progression of tech levels is very slow.
>The early spaceflight Solomani are obviously the exception. Therefore most
>cultures simply never have the inclination, opportunity or wherewithal to
>develop the technology. Maybe it has something to do with the Yaskodray's
>experiments that killed the spark of initiative in so many of these
>cultures? Or perhaps the conditions on Terra are unique in promoting
>massive technological advancement relative to the rest of the races in
>Charted Space.
(4a)
Or perhaps it's just that at a certain point societies and their respective
education systems can't let an individual sophont accumulate enough
knowledge to improve the local TL. You need very exceptional individuals to
do that, and for having enough of them to improve TL, you need large,
star-spanning empires, which, on the other hand, must not be too large to
make communications between those individuals worthless for TL improvement.
The Terrans were different in that they changed their society rapidly if
the advancement of technology (whose praying to was somhow their only
stable cultural element, perhaps plus language to a certain degree)
required that. After they took the burden of The Rule Of Man, Solomani
culture changed again with the new requirements, and became more suitable
for ruling an empire than for improving technology. Since they did so for a
few centuries, it became a custom, and the process could not be reversed
then, so today they have the same slow tech advancement rate as anone else
in Charted space.
Hey, I like this one!
>(5) It's all a plot!
:) Not everyone's taste.
- --
"This was not meant to be an aggresssion against the Siru Zirka. But we had
to organize our affairs a bit more efficiently. To be honest, we have had
to do this for almost 300 years by now."
unknown Terran politician, -2398 Imp
;-) ingo heinscher
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 18:47:54 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Vilani history and mindset
At 14:56 11.03.00 -0800, James W. Lindsay wrote:
>On Sat, 11 Mar 2000 08:39:04 +0100, Ingo Heinscher wrote:
>> You mean, a Vilani would probably argue that slow and careful expansion is
>> far safer and thus better to build a stable empire than expanding from the
>> beginning?
>
>Possibly, but only a real Vilani would be able to explain it to you :)
>
>> What kind of simulation rules must they use for computer program
>> to prove their way?
>
>Dunno, but it is probably safe to assume that the same "slow & methodical"
>approach that they have in real life (theirs, not ours) would somehow exist
>in their computer models. Kinda makes you want to wonder what Klingon
>software would look like to a Terran programmer...
LOL
>> >Thankfully, others have provided a possible non-canon reason why jump-1
>> >exploration coreward and trailing was either difficult or impossible.
>> >Personally, while I like this idea, I think that the Vilani mindset is
even
>> >more important. To paraphrase your typical Alien Module: "aliens aren't
>> >just humans in rubber suits... they *think* differently too". A good
>> >referee has the ability to make the Zhodani or Vilani appear to be quite
>> >alien in comparison to our own greedy balkanized way of thinking (ie:
>> >Solomani).
>>
>> On that I aggree. Still IMO there are some things even in "soft science"
>> (like economy sciences) that are fairly predictable. For example, Vilani
>> must have know from the beginning that their technology would leak across
>> the borders of their "market zone".
>
>This could be partially accredited to their bureaucracy. IOW, someone may
>have noticed, but didn't bother saying anything for fear of losing their
>job. Something similar happened in the Solomani Rim, IIRC :)
Possible. Though the greatest advantage of Vilani mindset, careful planning
of every next step and rethinking it twice considering the long-term
implications of a given step should have granted that someone in a _high_
office has the idea what trade with foreign races would finally lead to.
(But OTOH, perhaps that particular Vilani (or the group of Vilani) had some
poltical manouvers to do with these facts...)
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 12:56:17 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Dale's comments about T4
On 03/12/00 at 01:20 AM, Dale Gyles said:
>I like the T4 rules, although I will certainly buy T5 when it comes out.
Same here.
>My players do not care about the rules, as long as I am consistent. I
>just found out tonight that my one player with previous Traveller
>experience thought I was running Gurps Traveller. (I have also collected
>all the GT books.) All he cares about is the Traveller Mileau and its
>hard SF approach, although he is not that picky about scientific
>accuracy. Basically, as long as I keep the game moving along, my players
>are happy.
Mine, mostly, think I'm running TNE...mostly. I'll admit to
being a rule-monger outside of play, so I'm always tinkering with
rules, but in play I just want to keep things moving, so simpler is
better.
> The most unexpected thing the players did was to spend an entire session
>going over the numbers (economics, performance, and weapons) of their new
>starship. Attempts to move the game along to the actual adventuring were
>rebuffed. They made me roleplay job interviews for all the NPC's.
That's not too unusual, in my experience. They probably suspect
that you have hidden agendas for some of those NPC's...I would.
> I think the rules are not the most important thing as long as the
>referee knows what he is doing and why, and is consistent and fair.
> I will confess that I don't use the T4 rules verbatim. I have tinkered
>with them. Please don't flame me too hard. :)
Never!
> By the way, I have implemented many of the fiendish suggestions posted
>here in my campaign. The TML has been very inspiring. I especially
>liked the various suggestions for equipement malfunctions. I told my
>players I had downloaded 101 Malfunctions. It makes them nervous.
Find the 77 Quirks post. It makes wonderful complications for your
ships and vehicles.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 11:01:28 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: ULTIMATE REASON TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
On Sat, 11 Mar 2000 20:27:21 -0500, Chris Seamans wrote:
> Actually, no. He's talking about himself.
I apologize! I missed the "Star Fire" thread that Troy initiated and
automatically presumed that he was coming to John Hamilton's defense.
After rereading that particular thread I would have to agree-- Troy has
definitely been treated unfairly.
Again, I apologize to Troy for my previous post.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Tagline (n): 1) High technology bumper sticker.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 11:08:26
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Re Still going in the Late 3I
At 11:53 AM 3/12/2000 -0700, you wrote:
>
>On Sun, 12 Mar 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>
>> Actually, H-D does do some other things. Next time you fire up the
>> lawn-mower, take a close look at the engine...
>
>You must have different lawn-mowers that I've seen.
Harley used to, up until 1986, do the engines for Craftsman.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 10:11:40 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Vilani history and mindset (was:Re: The Low Jump Number Question)
In mail you write:
> At 22:42 10.03.00 -0800, James W. Lindsay wrote:
>
> On that I aggree. Still IMO there are some things even in "soft science"
> (like economy sciences) that are fairly predictable. For example, Vilani
> must have know from the beginning that their technology would leak across
> the borders of their "market zone". But at first, they didn't bother for
> some reason. (Obviously those other aliens and minor human races weren't
> too smart. Otherwise they would have developed and built j-2 or even J-3
> ships much earlier. Hey, that gives me an idea for another thread...)
Actually, if you are several TLs above another culture they are
*execcedingly* unlikely to learn anything from your technology *even
with a working unit sitting in front of them*.
They don't have the theoretical background, and they may not have the
*ability* to buuild the high tech parts (or even to discover what they
are and how they work).
The Transistor was discovered and *dropped* because lacking theory,
nobody could figure out how to improve it, or even how to use it to
best effect. This happened at least *twice* between 1890 and 1920.
Also, it's *possible* for theories to explain observations well, but
but mislead you. That is, they can tell you X is impossible, so you
never try it. Only much later do you get your nose rubbed in something
*else* that reveals your theory is crap.
To the best of my knowledge this hasn't yet occured in a major way
since the scientific method was invented. But it is *possible*. That's
one of the reasons grad students sometimes base their thesis on
experiments showing that X really *is* impossible.
So, we could have a theoretical background that doesn't allow jump
drive to be developed. Of course, once a minor race that has that
theory runs into someone using jump drive, it's too late to develop
jump drive "on their own".
Failing to *improve* jump drive could be a similar situation. Slightly
wrong theory points you in the wrong direction. Then somebody else
(Terrans :-), who had to develop their *own* theory, has it just a bit
different and manages to get a new level of jump.
If it's inherently hard to do experiments on some of the factors
involved in making a jump, theory could be hard to confirm.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 10:31:58 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Lo-tek mercenaries
In mail you write:
>> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>> Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2020
>>
>> One rather interesting possibility is if you have Imperial rules of war
>> for situations where balkanized worlds aren't allowed to hire mercs for
>> "on world" fights that are in excess of world TL.
>
> Welllll, there is certainly enough flexibility in the Imperial Guidelines of
> War ("it's a Machine Gun. That's excessive ...") to enforce this [footnote
> for those of you without Legal-1 - the Imperial Rules of War forbid, but do
> not define, "excessive extra-planetary influence". This gives a lot of
> leeway to the Imperial authorities to allow or disallow whatever they feel
> like, whenever they feel like it. You might have gotten away with it in 99%
> of the conflicts of the Imperium 99% of the time, but just this once Someone
> feels like making a point].
>
>> On good reason for this is so that the locals have the capability of
>> doing their own "cleanup" after the war.
>
> Cleanup ?
Any war much past the American Civil War's TL is going to have stuff
like mines, unexploded shells, buried shells/canisters of poison gas,
etc that are going to need to be removed. And the odds are that except
for a few "humanitarian" organizations, supported by charitable
contributions, clearing the minefields and removing other "hazardous
waste" left behind by the war is goig to have to be done by the locals.
This sort of thing is now a *major* problem in a lot of third world
countries.
>> This makes it possible to have merc units that (like in Norton's "Star
>> Guard" and Drake's "Ranks of Bronze") specialize in "archaic" forms of
>> warfare.
>>
>> Picture getting a transport contract to haul a "Roman Legion" or some
>> "Swiss Pikemen" to their new contract. :-)
>
> Basically, it's a passenger contract. None of that heavy lifting of 600 ton
> mass grav tanks :)
Except they need a ship with an large large enough for weapons practice
(especially if the trip requires several jumps), and large enough for
something *approaching* drill.
"They're using the Grand Ballroom for *what*!?"
And real fun would be a contract to haul cavalry!
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 10:07:27 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
In mail you write:
> At 00:55 11.03.00 -0600, Black ICE (a Shadowrun fan?)wrote:
>
>>ObTrav: Besides Pepsi Cola (already mentioned in several posts), what
>>current Terran corporations, if any, still exist in the various TUs
>>represented on this list? Further, in which polity are any such
>>corporations headquartered?
>
> Actually, none of today's corporations survived the millennia IMTU. I am
> even not quite sure whether it's conclusive to let some Imperial megacorps
> have German names (Sternmetall Horizonte, Gesichtskreis
> Sternschiffbau(spelling: sic! The spelling "Geschichtskreis" provided in
> BTC would mean "history circle"...), Schunamann &Sohn). IMO, German as a
> language simply cannot survive the coming thousand years. Anglic will,
> perhaps Chinese and Spanish, but all others will vanish. Not enough native
> speakers. So why should there be megacorps with names in languages nobody
> understands?
Actually, the number of "native speakers" depends more on whether or
not any primarily German language colonies are formed in the early
days.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 20:31:40 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Re: Cthulhu, Yaskodray, and the Maya (was Re: Yaskodray)
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> Nah, assuming the Aztec's and May were on to something, the stars
> will be right:
>
> Friday, December 21, 2012 AD
>
> The Julian day number is 2456283
> The Mayan day is CAUAC (STORM)
> The Mayan month is KANKIN (DOG OF THE UNDERWORLD)
> Short count = 3 CAUAC 2 KANKIN
> Long count = 12.19.19.17.19 3 CAUAC 2 KANKIN
>
> (Last day of the 13th baktun of the current Long Count)
You seem to have a good referrence for the Mayan timekeeping methods.
Where can I find it (preferrably online) ?
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 19:53:45 -0000
From: "Derrick Jones"
Subject: Re Hebden Bridge.
TML
Well it came and it went. I really enjoyed my first ever Traveller
playing session, met some great people and had an all round
good time. (and drank some beer too!)
My thanks to the organisers for helping prove that Traveller, in
whatever incarnation is genuinely alive and kicking (if not screaming)!
I heard that someone beat my old record from another non-residential
attendee, so I just wish you luck in finding a game, whoever you are
(I've probably got loads of mail to sort through now? I wonder if I'll ever
catch up?)
Cheers,
Derrick
(2 1/2 hours without playing Traveller.... How can I cope?!!!)
Derrick Jones
St Helens
Lancashire UK
http://www.btinternet.com/~dojones.whitestar
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2061
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Traveller-digest Sunday, March 12 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2062
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Fwd: FF&S2 question
Re: Tokaji Azsu 6 petunias
Re: Yaskodray
Re: Re Hebden Bridge.
Re: Traveller Proofread commit
So, how was Hebden Bridge (UK Convention)
Re: Life at pH 0.05....
Re: First post (caveat poster!)
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: Fwd: FF&S2 question
Re: Yaskodray
Re: Drakarans- canonical?
Re: Leroy/Secret Knowledge
Library data online/offline programme(was:Re: Tokaji Azsu 6 petunias)
Re: Random Chargen for GT (was: Re: 4 Bad Things....)
Re: GT ship creation
Delta Green in Traveller (Re: Yaskodray)
Imp companies with a bad rep
Re: GT ship creation
RE: The Mafia in the Imperium
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 13:57:46 -0600
From: Loren Wiseman
Subject: Fwd: FF&S2 question
Can anyone help this gentleman?
I am fuctionally innumerate beyond the simple four functions.
>Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 20:07:33 -0800 (PST)
>From: Dale Meier
>Subject: FF&S2 question
>To: lkw@io.com
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>
>Dear Mr. Wiseman--
>
> I have a question regarding the equations in FF&S2.
>Years ago when I studied algebra in high school, I
>studied what it means for a number to have a power in
>subscript next to it. Unfortunately, I've forgotten.
>For example, the equation *V=ln(M sub-f / M
>sub-tot)*3600/FC*FD (the equation appears on page 12
>under "Realistic Thrust)--how do I handle the
>subscript notation? I haven't the foggiest clue
>anymore how to handle it and my scientific calculator
>does not support such a function. What should I do?
>Just chalk FF&S2 up as a loss and use BTRC's Vehicle
>Design System to design vehicles in Traveller?
>
>Pax,
>
>Dale Meier
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
>http://im.yahoo.com
>
Loren Wiseman
Traveller Line Manager
Traveller Guru-in-Residence
Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
http://jtas.sjgames.com/
SJ Games
LKW@IO.COM
(512) 447-7866 VOX
(512) 447-1144 FAX
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 20:59:03 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Re: Tokaji Azsu 6 petunias
Volker Greimann wrote:
> Having it online only is kind of useless. I would love to have such a
> tool directly on my computer so i could access it all the time, not
> just when i´m online. If the interface looks good, i could even use
> it in play.
Could be useful to download the whole thing in that case. You'd probably
have to format the data in some way, though.
> Imagine:
> Letting the PC´s search through old Lib-Data files to find valuable
> information.
One of the biggest uses for it, yes. Also, don't forget referees
searching the files for ideas.
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 20:00 +0000 (GMT)
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Yaskodray
In-Reply-To: <38ce674d.7323205@mail.lig.bellsouth.net>
Pete,
> >Yaskodray
> >(Sung to the tune of "Yesterday", by the Beatles)
> >
>
Very good!
> Reminds me of another song:
>
> Leprosy...All my parts are falling offa me.
> Now I'm scared to even take a pee,
> Ooh.. I've come down with leprosy!
The version I heard went:
Leprosy...little bits keep dropping off of me,
I'm not half the man I used to be,
etc etc
I can't believe my first post, after being away from the list for two years, is
*this*...
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
"Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 14:00:56 -0600
From: Stormhound
Subject: Re: Re Hebden Bridge.
Derrick Jones wrote:
> My thanks to the organisers for helping prove that Traveller, in
> whatever incarnation is genuinely alive and kicking (if not screaming)!
It definitely is, at that. Though as a GM, I prefer to do the kicking and
let the players handle the screaming part. ;-)
- --
Stormhound
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 21:01:38 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Re: Traveller Proofread commit
Chauncey Smith wrote:
> What I would love to see in the next edition of traveller is good
> play testing by ppl who don't know how to play the game already.
You are *so* right in this.
I hadn't played Traveller at all before I bought T4. It was only through
lots of lurking and discussion on the TML that I managed to get a good
grip on many things.
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 20:05:51 -0000
From: "Mark Preston"
Subject: So, how was Hebden Bridge (UK Convention)
For the first time ever, in all my long years of games conventions,
this was a convention I could attend from home (since I live only
fifteen miles from Hebden Bridge). And it was dedicated to my
favourite RPG as well - what could possibly be better than that?
Well, it could have been better if an unexpected problem hadn't come
up on Saturday evening - meaning I couldn't get back on Saturday night
and missed Sunday altogether. There are times when you are *sure* that
somebody up there is out to get you, and this was one of them. On the
other hand, what I did get to see was fine and those of you who
couldn't make it at all missed out even more than I did.
First, of course, there was the chance to see other people from BITS
and put faces to names of some of the TMLers. A great chance for us to
talk and discuss what we thought of Traveller without having to worry
about network bandwidth. I think it is fair to say that all of us
thought the "Traveller failed ..." threads were pretty funny - we all
thought that it was still going strong. For good evidence, the fifteen
or twenty people there (I didn't count) between them had every rule
set for Traveller and resource material to boggle the mind. There were
even the old Judges Guild ship designs (remember those everyone?). As
well as the paper stuff, we also had two computer systems (a Mac and a
PC) running Traveller software for the convention. I have to say, I
was *very* impressed with the Trading Spreadsheet and will be
downloading a copy myself. Even though it is fairly slow to
recalculate trading profit figures, its a lot faster than I can do and
has a far better range of trade goods. Maybe with that I'll finally be
able to get my solo-play merchant (currently bankrupt and stranded -
don't laugh - on Ruie in 1104) back into action.
Best of all, to my mind, was the chance to get a look at the new "At
Close Quarters" from BITS. This, I have to say, is a top quality
product to a very high and professional finish that will be a must for
all players who ever get involved with gun-bunny adventures. It is
obviously a bit more complex than the simple rules in CT and T4 (don't
know about GURPS) but at the same time looks to be much easier to
handle because of its clear, obvious and detailed structure. I
particularly like the look of the Action Points and the handling of
initiative. Unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to play it - and me
with an ex-Marine tactics expert too - but it looks great and I shall
certainly be getting a copy as soon as I can.
Well, apart from the game I was playing - and I hope Nick will tell us
all how it ended - before I had to cut my visit short, that's about
it. Except, obviously, for Andy Lilley's incident with the spade on
the M62 motorway...or perhaps tht's best forgotten .
- --
Mark A. Preston
The Magpie's Nest
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 13:30:29 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Life at pH 0.05....
On Sat, 11 Mar 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
> Seems to *me* that the bright thing to do is *encourage* the little
> buggers, and process the runoff for the metal content!
Yes, except for one thing...that's a wonderful idea in a test tube, but
horrible in Real Life. Test tubes really tend to have less
complex hydrology than deep rock mines below the water table.
You _can't_ capture or keep all the runoff easily, and
considering the load of toxins that that runoff carries into the food
chain on down the road you _better_ be concerned; you might get a lot of
food from where that stuff goes. Depending on where it's going, you might
be _drinking_ it.
> They've been using bacterially aided "leaching" to process some
> minerals for a while, and this puppy looks like a godsend. It'd do far
> better than the current strains.
>
> ObTrav: consider this, and similar bugs from other planets. They'd be
> useful in mining, but *hell* if they got released in the wrong places.
Yeah. Like on board a starship. Wanna be nastier still? Give the stuff
several months of reproduction at low rates before it rmutates into
something that can spread and eat more quickly. You'll have seeded strains
of the thing throughought a subsector or more.
> ps. I have to admit to finding this bug kinda funny. It means that a
> lot of the nasty evil mine runoff that various environmental groups are
> complaining about may well be a matter of us having providing better
> living conditions for an organism. :-)
They're complaining because it's still the miners resonsibility regardless
of how it happened. Those "stupid treehugger hippie greenies" complain
about introducing non-native species too, for much the same reason...
Like that Australian gold mining outfit in Romania that have managed to
kill an entire river system in the name of marginal profit.
My opinion is that they should be drug out and shot. Repeatedly. Starting
at the toes.
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 20:40:48 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: First post (caveat poster!)
On Sat, 02 Jan 1999 14:00:30 -0600, Rob Eaglestone
wrote:
>Welcome, Dale!
>
>Just be sure not to mention Virus-infected nanites living
>within custom Cybergear flying on a 10-dton jump-capable
>asteroid moving (with the aid of thruster plates) at near-C
>velocities carrying a team of female Aslan pirates in
>comfortable shoes.
>
>
Wow. The entire TML FAQ in one paragraph. ;-)
- - Jeff Peterson (j_pete@bellsouth.net)
"There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven."
-Ecclesiastes 3:1
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
NOG #74 AirStar Nova 700
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 15:35:48 -0500
From: Walt Smith
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Bruce Johnson wrote:
>WOW! Now you ARE all smugglers! They get your ship AND you. Off you
>go to the widget factory, where as 'prisoner labor' you get to make 2000 Cr
>widgets for 2 cr a day.
>
>Your sentence is over when you can come up with the 25kcr fine you owe
>the government.
"Lord Gradion, I've had a complaint placed on my desk. There's a charge
against your Customs Service of 'Interference in Free Trade through
coercive measures and punitive actions.' There's even a deposition
alleging seizure of a ship through force and fraud."
"How foolish of you, Lord Gradion, to allow your men such latitude. Now I
have an Imperial Knight Barrister besieging my offices, and his cousin is
sub-Admiral of the subsector fleet!"
"Void take you, don't you pay attention to what kind of people you're
targeting for this crap? Sure, the Captain of the _Calamity Jon_ is
a nobody, but his navigator locked up beside him is third septlune of
House Marena! Now I've got a stink in the local moot house that'll take
a year to clear...and it won't clear without me using someone as a
scrub brush."
"This is quite a mess your greed has gotten you into, Gradion. Your
vassals' accusations of smuggling may lead you into facing charges
of Piracy..."
____________
A planet making a practice of seizing Free Trader ships will see no
Free Traders, as soon as word gets out. Abuse the locals as you will,
but IMO those of the interstellar "Traveller" subculture are are to be
handled with care. Yes, most of them are relative nobodies...but
a significant fraction will be on a first name basis with Very Important
People, and may have markers to call in.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 13:41:01 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Fwd: FF&S2 question
Those are not exponents, merely different masses. MsubF is the mass of the
fuel MsubTot is the mass of the entire ship, so the equation
MsubF/MsubTot evaluates simply (and arithmetically) to the fraction of
the total mass that is fuel.
This is true for all the subscript notation throughout the book.
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
On Sun, 12 Mar 2000, Loren Wiseman wrote:
> Can anyone help this gentleman?
>
> I am fuctionally innumerate beyond the simple four functions.
>
> >Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 20:07:33 -0800 (PST)
> >From: Dale Meier
> >Subject: FF&S2 question
> >To: lkw@io.com
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >
> >Dear Mr. Wiseman--
> >
> > I have a question regarding the equations in FF&S2.
> >Years ago when I studied algebra in high school, I
> >studied what it means for a number to have a power in
> >subscript next to it. Unfortunately, I've forgotten.
> >For example, the equation *V=ln(M sub-f / M
> >sub-tot)*3600/FC*FD (the equation appears on page 12
> >under "Realistic Thrust)--how do I handle the
> >subscript notation? I haven't the foggiest clue
> >anymore how to handle it and my scientific calculator
> >does not support such a function. What should I do?
> >Just chalk FF&S2 up as a loss and use BTRC's Vehicle
> >Design System to design vehicles in Traveller?
> >
> >Pax,
> >
> >Dale Meier
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
> >http://im.yahoo.com
> >
>
>
>
> Loren Wiseman
> Traveller Line Manager
> Traveller Guru-in-Residence
> Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
> http://jtas.sjgames.com/
> SJ Games
> LKW@IO.COM
> (512) 447-7866 VOX
> (512) 447-1144 FAX
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 21:01:56 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: Yaskodray
On Sun, 12 Mar 2000 20:00 +0000 (GMT), aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk
(Andrew Boulton) wrote:
>In-Reply-To: <38ce674d.7323205@mail.lig.bellsouth.net>
>
>Pete,
>
>> >Yaskodray
>> >(Sung to the tune of "Yesterday", by the Beatles)
>> >
>>
>
>Very good!
>
>> Reminds me of another song:
>>
>> Leprosy...All my parts are falling offa me.
>> Now I'm scared to even take a pee,
>> Ooh.. I've come down with leprosy!
>
>The version I heard went:
>
>Leprosy...little bits keep dropping off of me,
>I'm not half the man I used to be,
>etc etc
You're right. I misremembered.
>I can't believe my first post, after being away from the list for two years, is
>*this*...
There's worse things. I was playing paintball today and got hit in
*the jimmy* three times at once. Thank GOD I wore my cup! THAT would
have been worse.
- - Jeff Peterson (j_pete@bellsouth.net)
"There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven."
-Ecclesiastes 3:1
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
NOG #74 AirStar Nova 700
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 21:04:00 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: Drakarans- canonical?
On Sun, 12 Mar 2000 11:28:21 EST, Qstor@aol.com wrote:
>I believe I was thinking of the Adduxar (From AM4 Zhodani ) I found the
>reference on the AAB web alien racelist.
They are also called the Clotho in GT:Alien Races 1.
- - Jeff Peterson (j_pete@bellsouth.net)
"There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven."
-Ecclesiastes 3:1
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
NOG #74 AirStar Nova 700
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 16:09:22 EST
From: JFZeigler@aol.com
Subject: Re: Leroy/Secret Knowledge
In a message dated 3/11/00 9:06:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, GDWGAMES@aol.com
writes:
> Doug Berry writes:
>
> << I was involved in a rgfm flamewar (isn't that redundant?) with an idiot
who
> claimed that trying to write for SJG was "stupid" because they only let
> their close friends and cronies in. >>
>
> Let me guess -- the proof of this statement was that his proposal for
GURPS
> Teletubbies was turned down? Or had he ever bothered to make an inquiry?
Ort
>
> is this based on something a friend's cousin's dentist's college roomate's
> drinking buddy's brother told him?
Well, in all honesty it *is* a bit easier to pitch an idea to SJG if you've
already worked with them before. Partially because you probably have
a better handle on what they want, and also because you're a known
quantity, someone they have some idea can do the work. Selling and
writing my first book for SJG took several years of effort and quite a bit
of frustration. Since then it's been much easier.
This isn't unusual in the publishing industry, though. It's always easier
once you "break in" to a market for the first time.
Meanwhile, my experience tells me that SJG is actually *easier* to
"break in" to and work with than most RPG publishers. They just
insist on the basics of professional conduct, that's all. If you can
manage that, and you have an idea which actually makes good
marketing sense, then they'll work with you.
- ----------
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty
set of people who will take offense at it."
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 11:22:19 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Library data online/offline programme(was:Re: Tokaji Azsu 6 petunias)
At 20:59 12.03.00, you wrote:
>Volker Greimann wrote:
> > Having it online only is kind of useless. I would love to have such a
> > tool directly on my computer so i could access it all the time, not
> > just when i´m online. If the interface looks good, i could even use
> > it in play.
>
>Could be useful to download the whole thing in that case. You'd probably
>have to format the data in some way, though.
that´s what i meant. That, plus regular updates which contain only the new
entries...
Give me that, and I´ll subscribe
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 21:22:21 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: Random Chargen for GT (was: Re: 4 Bad Things....)
On Sun, 12 Mar 2000 12:22:39 -0600, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
>On 03/12/00 at 02:50 PM, j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete) said:
>
>>>The article is "Some Classic Randomness", by Robert M. Brown.
>
>>I found that article as a FREE sample! I did a web search of the title
>>and found it at http://sjgames.com/pyramid/sample.cgi?462. It's not
>>exactly what I'm looking for but it's a good place to start building my
>>own.
>
>That what I said when I read it.
>
>If you expand on it, do other careers, etc. please share it with us.
>
One thing I've liked is the variety of careers on Dark Conspiracy and
Twlight:2000 2nd Ed. I imagine TNE is similar but I never got around
to buying it. I'm going to try to add as many careers as I can. I'm
leaving soon to Korea for a year. I should have some time then in
between "EXERCISE EXERCISE! MOPP LEVEL FOUR!" I pity the fool... oh,
that's me. :-(
I've never looked at T4. Hell, I never even laid eyes on it until a
few months ago a my FLGS. There's several books in pristine condition
(except for the dust.)
- - Jeff Peterson (j_pete@bellsouth.net)
"There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven."
-Ecclesiastes 3:1
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
NOG #74 AirStar Nova 700
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 15:37:27 -0600 (EST)
From: Christopher Thrash
Subject: Re: GT ship creation
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 17:19:49 EST
From: TDRandall@aol.com
Subject: Moving on to GT ship creation (was Re: Random Chargen for GT )
> I bought "First In" and "Far Trader" and was suitably impressed that I
> decided to get the overall setting. I've yet to go through it in any
> detail, but my flip-through of it left me a bit disappointed on the ship
> creation.
> Did I overlook something important or were there really only TL 10 and
> TL 12 components, of a few types each?
Nope, you've got it right. In order to squeeze a viable ship design system
into GT, it was necessary to restrict it to just two representative TLs.
There are a couple of other directions you can take, if you're interested:
(1) GURPS Space 3d ed. has a slightly different version of the modular
ship design system that can be mined for ideas and components. Be careful
to read the assumptions, though: power plant and life support "slices" are
included in GT modules but not in GS3/e, and there are TL progression
differences as well.
(2) All the modules in GT were created using GURPS Vehicles (the Fire,
Fusion, and Steel-type rules for GURPS). You can create pretty much any
modules you need with it, but it is terribly time-consuming.
(3) As Eris alluded, GT: Starships is in the works, and will include a
complete suite of modules from TL7-12, with some TL13 experimental tech
(space permitting). I still need all kinds of submissions; check out:
http://www.io.com/~thrash/starship.html
Ignore the dates: I am woefully far behind, but working as fast as I can.
(4) An extension of the original GT system (at TL10/12 only,
unfortunately) for naval vessels -- weapons, components, custom hulls and
armor, etc. -- is being published in three parts in JTAS as we speak.
Check out:
http://jtas.sjgames.com/
for information on subscriptions. The articles should contain enough
information to construct High Guard-type vessels at TL10/12.
Hope this helps somewhat.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 01:39:43 -0800
From: Keith Johnson
Subject: Delta Green in Traveller (Re: Yaskodray)
>From: "Josh W. Spencer"
>Subject: Re: Yaskodray
>
>NOW I start to wonder...has anyone ever incorporated Call of Cthulhu into
>Traveller, and what were the overall results?
While I have yet to add the Mythos into one of my Traveller sessions, it
shouldn't be difficult at all. Porting GURPS Cthulhupunk into GT wouldn't
be any problem, and I have actually played a BRP version of Traveller.
http://www.tierzucht.uni-kiel.de/~sma/inf/chaosium/brp.html
It would seem to me that the easiest way to add the Mythos to a game is via
jump space. Just run an Event Horizon-esque scenario. Still, I don't see
any reason why traditional Call of Cthulhu scenarios couldn't be run in
Traveller.
Delta Green could be easily added into Traveller as well. Perhaps the
Mi-Go, in the guise of the Ancients, have contacted the Powers That Be in
the Imperium and brokered a similar treaty as in Delta Green and Delta
Green: Countdown. Makes you wonder what the Cookbook would look like for a
GTL12 culture, eh? :)
Hmmm... now that I think of it, it would be interesting to run a scenario
where the Shan (the Insects from Shaggai) have controlled the Archduke of
Ilelish and his close advisors to assassinate the Emperor, and the PC's
(who are the Imperial Naval Intelligence equivalent of Delta Green) find
out . . .
_________________________________________________________
Rev. Keith Johnson /\ keith@sjgames.com
Assistant Webmaster /()\ keithalanjohnson@home.com
Steve Jackson Games /____\ reverendkeith@hotmail.com
"I choose you, Dullinor!" - PokeTrav Master
IMTU tm++@ t4+@ tg++$ ru- ge-@ st+ pi+ he+ dr+ hi-@ zh+
_________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 16:51:22 -0500
From: "Vincent P. Runci"
Subject: Imp companies with a bad rep
ObTrav: The Imperium may have a few companies equally notorious for
poor quality due to being the *only* supplier in a region (and thus
able to have a "take it or leave it" attitude).
- - --
I know of one company on Regina notorious for it's poor quality. As a
result of the Trimkhana-Brilliance
Disaster (TNS 1105), and IIRC, several Kinunir-class problems, General
Shipyards of Regina shut down
there manufacturing operations.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 16:43:31 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: Re: GT ship creation
In a message dated 3/12/00 4:38:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, thrash@io.com
writes:
<< Ignore the dates: I am woefully far behind, but working as fast as I can.
>>
Waiting patiently for GT: Starships :)
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 16:52:35 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: RE: The Mafia in the Imperium
Robert Snyder writes:
>Is there anything Imperium-wide that could create an Imperium-
>spanning Mafia Organization? Such an organization would perhaps be
>stronger than any MegaCorporation and would perhaps be stronger than
>the Imperium itself.
I can think of a few reasons that a Mafia-like organization
would be unlikely to gain that much power (at least, IMTU).
First, there is the nature of the Imperium: I don't see there
being all that many credits to be made from breaking Imperial
regulations (except, maybe, piracy). I would expect most criminal
enterprises to take advantage of local planetary laws (this would
include smuggling from world to world). As has been pointed out,
long-range control of lawless organizations would also be very
difficult in the Traveller setting.
Second, competition. The MegaCorporations are not known to be
above a certain amount of dirty business. They cannot flagrantly
ignore the Imperium, but they can get away with a lot
(particularly if a high Imperial noble, who has been having
trouble with the "Mafia," gives them permission to "bend" the rules.
These MegaCorporations have awesome resources.
Third, IMTU Imperial forces are not as restrained as those here
on Terra currently. While the Imperium does not want to drive
citizens to revolt, they are not above doing Bad Things (tm) to
organizations that threaten the good of the Imperium. Imperial
forces, alone or with the cooperation of the MegaCorporations,
are very dangerous indeed.
>The only item that is universally prohibited within the 3rd Imperium
>is Psionics. So, I would suggest that there could be an Imperium
>spanning Mafia organization and it would be focused on the supply of
>Psionics training/materials.
I do have the Psionics Institute sneaking about, but they are
not powerful and do not fit the mold of the Mafia. Even if
psionics were generally accepted by the masses, I'm not sure
that there would be all that much money to be made from psi
training. Now, if you had a telekinetic running a gambling
casino...
Peez
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2062
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Traveller-digest Sunday, March 12 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2063
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Dune
Re: Yaskodray
Vs: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium
Re: Jump Drives
Re: Random Chargen for GT (was: Re: 4 Bad Things....)
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Query re Metator
Lost Supplements Arrive!
Re: Query re Metator
yanks
Task Ramblings for T5 et al.
Minor races inventing jump drive
jump induced psi
random Gurps chargen
Re: Another Filk (My First Traveller Filk!)
Re: Lost Supplements Arrive!
Re: New Zealand air force, Imperium attack craft, & Meritocracies
Re: Chargen (long)
Re: New Zealand air farce
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Minor races and jump drive
Re: Yanks are coming
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 16:55:49 -0500
From: Mark Urbin
Subject: Re: Dune
"Chris Seamans" puts in the Ether:
>From: Keith Johnson
>> The one that I see floating about the net is usually this one:
>> It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion. It is by the
>> Coca-Cola that the thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains,
>> the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone that I set my
>> mind in motion.
>The one I see frequently is:
>It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion,
>By the beans of Java, my thoughts acquire speed,
>The hands acquire the shakes, the shakes become a warning,
>It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion."
For this and more sig sized coffee quotes:
http://urbin.homepage.com/sigs/coffee-sigs.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Blend 'B', meanwhile, is a PROUD blend, defiant yet petulant...a blend
that grabs you, shakes you by the collar and cries, 'ACCEPT me, damn you,
or turn me away-BUT FOR GOD'S SAKE DON'T POLLUTE ME WITH NON-DAIRY
CREAMER!'" - Tripp Biscuit while coffee tasting.
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 22:02 +0000 (GMT)
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Yaskodray
In-Reply-To:
Josh,
> NOW I start to wonder...has anyone ever incorporated Call of Cthulhu into
> Traveller, and what were the overall results?
Well, in a game I was in many years ago, one of the characters tried to
summon a demon. And SUCCEEDED!
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
"Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 00:13:38 +0200
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jussi_Kenkkil=E4?=
Subject: Vs: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Ingo Heinscher
To:
Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2000 9:22 AM
Subject: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
> So why should there be megacorps with names in languages nobody
> understands?
>
These days a lot of large Finnish companies are changing their names from simple finnish names to cool-sounding (?) nonsense or pseudo-latin names. Examples from the top of my head are Leonia, Merita, Fortum. Maybe it's someting as irrational as that with German or pseudo-german company names in 3I.
- -J2K
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 17:04:09 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium
Walt Smith writes:
>Bruce Johnson wrote:
>>WOW! Now you ARE all smugglers! They get your ship AND you. Off you
>>go to the widget factory, where as 'prisoner labor' you get to make 2000 Cr
>>widgets for 2 cr a day.
>>Your sentence is over when you can come up with the 25kcr fine you owe
>>the government.
>A planet making a practice of seizing Free Trader ships will see no
>Free Traders, as soon as word gets out. Abuse the locals as you will,
>but IMO those of the interstellar "Traveller" subculture are are to be
>handled with care. Yes, most of them are relative nobodies...but
>a significant fraction will be on a first name basis with Very Important
>People, and may have markers to call in.
Not to mention the impact that cutting off shipments to/from that
world will have.
"Commisioner Biggles, Ms. Lotsadough just called. She says that the
new oil pipeline from the coast is already 6 months behind, and if
shipments from Nearstar don't pick up it will get worse. Considering
the number of votes that she controls in Council...
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 20:45:53 +0000
From: Paul Campbell
Subject: Re: Jump Drives
On Sun, 12 Mar 2000, David J. Golden wrote:
> -- Cthulhu in 2000! Why settle for the lesser evils?
Or is that: Windows 2000: Why settle for the lesser evil?
Sorry, couldn't resist. :P
- --
Paul Campbell
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 16:50:09 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Random Chargen for GT (was: Re: 4 Bad Things....)
On 03/12/00 at 09:22 PM, j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete) said:
>>>>The article is "Some Classic Randomness", by Robert M. Brown.
>>>I found that article as a FREE sample! I did a web search of the title
>>>and found it at http://sjgames.com/pyramid/sample.cgi?462. It's not
>>>exactly what I'm looking for but it's a good place to start building my
>>>own.
>>
>>That what I said when I read it.
>>
>>If you expand on it, do other careers, etc. please share it with us.
>>
>One thing I've liked is the variety of careers on Dark Conspiracy and
>Twlight:2000 2nd Ed. I imagine TNE is similar but I never got around to
>buying it.
It is. There are dozens of careers listed in TNE.
I'm going to try to add as many careers as I can. I'm leaving
>soon to Korea for a year. I should have some time then in between
>"EXERCISE EXERCISE! MOPP LEVEL FOUR!" I pity the fool... oh, that's me.
>:-(
Good luck with the mop.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 14:45:23
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
At 03:35 PM 3/12/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>"How foolish of you, Lord Gradion, to allow your men such latitude. Now I
>have an Imperial Knight Barrister besieging my offices, and his cousin is
>sub-Admiral of the subsector fleet!"
>
>"Void take you, don't you pay attention to what kind of people you're
>targeting for this crap? Sure, the Captain of the _Calamity Jon_ is
>a nobody, but his navigator locked up beside him is third septlune of
>House Marena! Now I've got a stink in the local moot house that'll take
>a year to clear...and it won't clear without me using someone as a
>scrub brush."
>
>"This is quite a mess your greed has gotten you into, Gradion. Your
>vassals' accusations of smuggling may lead you into facing charges
>of Piracy..."
SOPRANO CITY Jewell/Jewell (TNS) Soprano police today revealed that the
body found bound and gagged in a room of the Duke Hotel was Chevin Pakino,
former navigator of the Free Trader _Calamity Jon_. Pakino's body was found
after a tip was given in the search for the missing Director of Port
affairs, Baron Johan Middlesuch, who disappeared several weeks ago after a
lunch meeting.
Police spokesmen told reporters that Pakino was killed by two shots to the
head. "It was a definite execution." Pakino had been sought for testimony
in the ongoing hearings into corruption at the port facilities. The death
of Pakino and Lord Middlesuch's vanishing have been the latest stumbling
blocks for the investigation which has failed to uncover any hard evidence
to place before the Marquis' Bench.
"We're being brickwalled at every turn," said one prosecutor on condition
of anonymity, "people are either too scared or too loyal to the Rings to
come forward."
Lord Gradion, acting Head of Port Affairs, released a statement condemning
the murder of Mssr. Pakino, and reiterating his commitment to cleaning up
the corruption at the Port.
>A planet making a practice of seizing Free Trader ships will see no
>Free Traders, as soon as word gets out. Abuse the locals as you will,
>but IMO those of the interstellar "Traveller" subculture are are to be
>handled with care. Yes, most of them are relative nobodies...but
>a significant fraction will be on a first name basis with Very Important
>People, and may have markers to call in.
What the real OC groups do is when this happens is to retaliate against the
people that *don't* have highly placed friends. Free Trader A has
connections to the Sector Admiral? Then traders B, C, and D get threatened
with a leg breaking and told it's because A can't keep his mouth shut.
When the heat comes down everybody swears that there's nothing going on,
and happily pays the scratch to keep their ship.
Obviously, this kind of deal needs a careful hand.. too heavy and the
traders will just stop coming, too light, and you don't make enough money.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"Avoid small projects, they leave no mark on people's memories"
- - Daniel Burnham, San Francisco City Planner, 1907.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 18:01:36 -0500
From: "R.D. Elliott"
Subject: Query re Metator
Hi all.
Some time ago, Rob Prior was working on a Mac system generation
utility called Metator. Last I saw of it, it was still in alpha, but
showing major signs of brilliance.
Does anybody know whether Rob has done any further work on Metator?
Personally, I'm hoping for an answer along the lines of "Yes, and it's
available as shareware for only X$"...
Roderick Darroch Elliott
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 18:24:01 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford
Subject: Lost Supplements Arrive!
Hoohoo! I just returned from a weekend trip and found the lost supplements
in my mail box - definitely worth the wait!!! What's especially neat is
that what Paul Sanders (Did I say thanks? THANKS!) described as an ongoing
problem - his delays in delivery due to the work involved in producing the
things - actually turned to my advantage! Because I paid for the package
so long ago, the money (psychologically, to me) stopped having any meaning
some time ago. The package's arrival was like getting a gift in the mail,
with no payment due... I do have one question about the contents,
though: I've deduced the use of all of the components except the odd brown
fibre cord used to bind the books together. I thought at first it might be
a garrot kit, but as our local group generally doesn't get quite that
physical during our games, there must be some other use... Suggestions?
Bill Rutherford
worj@home.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 17:31:49 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Query re Metator
"R.D. Elliott" wrote:
>
> Hi all.
>
> Some time ago, Rob Prior was working on a Mac system generation
> utility called Metator. Last I saw of it, it was still in alpha, but
> showing major signs of brilliance.
>
> Does anybody know whether Rob has done any further work on Metator?
> Personally, I'm hoping for an answer along the lines of "Yes, and it's
> available as shareware for only X$"...
Unfortunately, Rob Prior is off the TML for now, due to some RealWorld
[tm] unpleasantness, so he can't answer your question directly.
I checked the BITS site (where a couple of other Rob Prior programs are
offered for sale), but no Metator.
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 18:35:27 EST
From: Ludowick@aol.com
Subject: yanks
Concerning yankees, as I am one:
The true yankee is a New Englander descended from the original English
settlers. Other peoples who settled in New England in colonial times
aren't yankees, nor are English settlers who settled elsewhere in the
British North American colonies. Upper Massachusetts ("Maine" to some)
has a relatively high percentage of yankees, but not all Maineacs are
true yanks.
Someone posted about not being called a yankee, even though they have
lived in NE for years. Well, you can't _become_ a yankee; you're born
one or you aren't (no offense is meant by this). It seems that "true"
yankees are becoming rarer -- we're probably becoming extinct.
Anyway, this is the definition that I grew up with. My family is from
Massachusetts (and from England if you go back to the early 17th century).
Ludowick@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 18:37:41 EST
From: Ludowick@aol.com
Subject: Task Ramblings for T5 et al.
I liked MT tasks, and incorporated them into my mostly CT TU.
They did much to standardise skill resolution. I've never
seen TNE or T4, so keep that in mind as I subject you all to:
"Some thoughts for possible task mods for T5"
1. I think tasks may be too granular for combat. MT would end
up either giving a +- 4 DM for a situation (change in range,
cover, etc.) or give no modifier at all. There are other
situations where tasks may be too crude (anywhere the ref wants
a +- 1 shift e.g.). MT frowned on too many small DMs, but they
are sometimes useful. I think combat should either be based
on a non-task system, or the task system should adopt a lower
shift of the dice per level of difficulty; say +- 2.
2. I think tasks should also be supplemented by simple die rolls
when the whole task mechanic isn't needed. MT did this at
times, but tasks crept into surprise, morale, low passage
saving-throws, & NPC reactions, which were probably better
handled as ordinary die-throws.
3. The MT task duration method might be simplified; the time it
takes to complete the task (say 4 hours to fix an ATV) could
be used as the base time, with the time required reduced if an
exceptional success is rolled. This might be easier than:
1. Divide base time to finish job by 10 to get time increment.
2. Roll 3D & subtract the total modifiers from the 3D roll.
3. Now multiply modified roll times the time increment to get
the time it takes to complete the task. Yuck.
4. An heretical idea may be to use a version of the BITS CT task
system (8+ for routine, with +/- DMs for other difficulties).
The character sheet could then list all standard skills, with
a space to enter the chance to succeed on a routine task, with
standard modifiers for skill & ability already figured in. The
sheet would also list the modifiers for different difficulty
levels at the top or bottom, so players could come up with the
required roll. Specific DMs would be added to the final roll.
An example: (using MT ability mods)
UPP: 777777
Skills: Pilot-3 Computer-1 Brawling-2
Success throws:
Pilot: 4+
Computer: 6+
Brawling: 5+
Cthulu Mythos: 5% (whoops) :)
Difficulty Mods: (modifiers to needed throw i.e. 4+ becomes 16+)
Staggeringly Impossible: +12
Amazingly Amazing: +10
Routinely Unbelievable: +8
etc. ad nauseum: + snore
I've been out of the Trav loop for a couple of editions, so please,
flame me over a low fire for about 45 minutes on each side.
:O
^^^^^
Ludowick@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 18:39:13 EST
From: Ludowick@aol.com
Subject: Minor races inventing jump drive
Ingo inquires:
>I was asking myself why the hundreds of minor races in OTU never
>developed
>(or improved) the jump drive technology on their own. Especially in the
>years(centuries!) before the Vilani Consolidation wars, at least one or
>two
>races should have been able to invent jump-2 or even j-3. Given the
>fact
>that most of these races were initially _not_ under cultural influence
>by
>the tech-cautious Vilani, they should have done a bit of their own
>research, especially during the COnsolidation wars.
>
>In addition, there are some minor races (namely the Drakarans of
>GT:AR1)
>who reached a relatively high TL but never had the idea to build a jump
>drive, and who only reverse-engineered (which does not necessarily mean
>understandig the physical principles behind the design) jump drive
>technology from a ship from one of the Six Races.
I always thought that the Major Races who discovered jump drive did so
mainly by accident. It was serendipity, not proof that they belonged to
a superior class of species. Discovering jump tech resulted from
investigating
some old curiosity or anomoly that scientists and engineers of most races
(and even most experts of the Major Races) had ignored and/or thought un-
important & useless. The basic principle, once discovered, probably isn't
too difficult to grasp, as many minor races in "canon" have either copied
jump drives, or found the principle of jump by examining wreckage of crashed
jump ships they have discovered.
Ludowick@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 18:40:18 EST
From: Ludowick@aol.com
Subject: jump induced psi
darkhstarr speculates:
>I just dug up another dusty box of campaign notes from my game. I
>found
>somthing I came up with called the 'Irheaen Sydrome', named after an
>Imperial scientist Eun Irheaen who postulated in year 15. He research
>noted an abnormal amount of children born to jump drive engineers were
>potential or latent psis. His thesis was that the time/space bending
>effects of jump drives affected the genes that produced psionic
>abilities. This led to efforts to better shielding on drives. I got
>the concepts from some old SF books, A. B. Chandler in particular.
Damn this is cool! How about psis with powerful special talents born
to survivors of exposure to jump space? (As long as it doesn't turn
their eyes silver). The whole thing plays on the mysterious nature of
jump travel (don't look out the window too long), and would make a good
seed for a dark, find the psi type detective adventure. Go for it.
Ludowick@aol.com
"It's just a jump to the left!"
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 18:41:58 EST
From: Ludowick@aol.com
Subject: random Gurps chargen
Jeff Peterson writes:
>The only thing I find
>lacking in GT is a random chargen.
Quick & Dirty Gurps random chargen:
Gurps is a 3D system with average stats of 10 so roll the stats (STR, DEX,
INT, HT, MOJO, I think) on 3D6 -- average 10.5. For skill points you can
do Age (in years) times 2. Put some nasty stat deterioration with age so
characters can choose to be young, tough, & unskilled, or old, crusty, &
versatile/expert.
Or you can roll the characters up with standard trav rules, then convert
them to Gurps using the formulae in some text files in the Missouri Trav-
eller archives (I forget the exact URL).
I don't know too much about Gurps. I did download the GURPSLIT.PDF file
from SJG, but that's because I thought it was porn.
>"An organization is like a tree full of monkeys, all on different
>levels. The
>monkeys on the top look down and all they see are smiling faces, the
>monkeys
>on the bottom look up and see nothing but assholes."
That's okay if the monkey above you is the equivalent of Claudia Schiffer.
;)
Ludowick@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 18:48:59 -0500
From: "Sword-Worlder"
Subject: Re: Another Filk (My First Traveller Filk!)
Oh my, that was quite good. Haunting, full of flavor. Although I did
notice that 3500+ years have done nothing to improve Young's voice :-p
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Colin Michael, WebDev
www.downport.com
The Traveller Domain
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Black ICE
>
> "During the Fifth War"
>
> [to the tune of "After the Gold Rush", by Neil Young]
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 19:02:09 -0500
From: "Sword-Worlder"
Subject: Re: Lost Supplements Arrive!
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Rutherford
... I do have one question about the contents,
> though: I've deduced the use of all of the components except the odd
brown
> fibre cord used to bind the books together. I thought at first it might
be
> a garrot kit, but as our local group generally doesn't get quite that
> physical during our games, there must be some other use... Suggestions?
Haven't received mine yet, but I'll venture a guess. When I add the Lost
Supplements to my bookshelf o' Traveller it is very likely to topple over
and crush me. Perhaps the little cord is to be used to secure the shelf
unit to the wall, sort of a safety device?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Colin Michael, WebDev
www.downport.com
The Traveller Domain
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 13:18:30 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: New Zealand air force, Imperium attack craft, & Meritocracies
On 11 Mar 00, at 11:39, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> You can tell how unpopular "attack" (ie ground support) aircraft are
> with the Air force when you consider that regular fighters got into the
> low hundreds and attack craft (A-xx) only got up to A-10.
And also by the fact that the USAF doesn't want the A10s in service,
and doesn't want to replace them. Something about having to get your
hands dirty that close to the gound.
> > Huh? I have to disagree. A-10s are designed primarily as tank
> > busters,
> > armored car busters, and bunker busters.
>
> I expect that they could do quite a number on *ships* as well. Which
> *could* be a problem if anybody ever attacks NZ.
Skyhawks armed with big Canadian anti-armour rockets can, too.
Apparently they have a warhead that's basically a penetrator from an
APDS tank gun round, and when fired from 10,000 feet and out at the
horizon they have a similar terminal velocity. What's more the aircraft
is a good long way away and can get out of Line-of-Sight just by
diving.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 13:18:31 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Chargen (long)
On 11 Mar 00, at 11:49, Black ICE wrote:
> Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> >
> > On 10 Mar 00, at 18:38, Steve Daniels wrote:
> <>
> > >
> > > Ok, so what the heck is a "Staff" officer anyway? Any officer who is
> > > not the highest ranking officer on a given assignment/operation?
> >
> > They're all the dead-wood that is too connected to dispose of, and too
> > useless to send to the front to get shot.
>
> You must be referring to those officers who spend most of their careers
> assigned to their military's equivalent of the Pentagon.
>
> At the staff levels with which I am most familiar (battalion and
> brigade), staff sections (officers and NCOs) are essential to the
> functioning of the unit. If commanders had no staff, they would spend so
> much time on personnel and logistics issues alone that they would have no
> time left to _command_.
I was referring to them mostly. Also to those officers that get made
"PR Officer", or somesuch due to connections, etc.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 13:18:31 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: New Zealand air farce
On 12 Mar 00, at 9:49, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> In mail you write:
>
> > If Harriers were less tempermental and weren't a British design, I'd
> > have picked them. (Nothing wrong with the British, hell, I am one, but
> > if you've ever worked on British aircraft, you'd know why I'd rather not
> > have them.
>
> Good grief, I didn't know that Lucas (aka "the Prince of Darkness") did
> aircraft electrical systems as well as doing automotive ones. (Actually,
> when speaking of Lucas, the proper phrase might be "as badly as" :-)
>
> For those for whom the above makes no sense, allow me to explain.
>
> Lucas is a British company that is *notorious*, as they make the (very,
> very *bad*) electrical systems for most British autos (or at least they
> used to). Calling their systems "failure prone" is a *compliment*.
>
> ObTrav: The Imperium may have a few companies equally notorious for
> poor quality due to being the *only* supplier in a region (and thus
> able to have a "take it or leave it" attitude).
You forgot to mention the joys of a monopoly for pricing. I remember
being sent into the garage to buy a new headlight switch system (made
by Lucas - yes they're here, too) by my father. I just about died when
I found out how much they were charging for a couple of peices of metal
and some moulded plastic.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 13:18:30 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
On 11 Mar 00, at 3:19, john hamilton wrote:
>
> > Yeah, but it's *how* he did it-- and how he
> > *continues* to look down upon
> > people that reply to his posts.
> >
>
> I'm not looking down to other people.This is reserved
> to snoby people who ,for example,think that a new
> member of the list has to wait to say his opinion
> about the games weaknesses.
Not at all. Some of us just think that one should suggest cures to
things one considers undesirable, and that one should be willing to
back one's postion up with reasoned debate rather than calling
dissenters "snobs", and otherwise stooping to ad hominem attacks.
Simple courtesy, that's all.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 13:18:30 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Minor races and jump drive
On 11 Mar 00, at 13:56, Bruce Johnson wrote:
> Or maybe the universe is a Giant game of Pocket Empires, played by
> Grandfather and some of his cronies on Saturday nights over pretzels and
> beer and they're using a uniform ship design system :-)
Grandfather is a Heretic. The Real Grandfather would use TCS.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 13:18:30 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Yanks are coming
On 11 Mar 00, at 21:59, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 00-03-11 16:10:40 EST, you write:
>
> << > ROTFL
> > That's America! Open for new citizens-to-be, anytime, anywhere.
>
> Not really. In that part of the country, a farm may be the "Johnson
> place" to all the locals, even though the Johnsons sold it 70 years ago.
>
> After a century or so, they'll get around to calling it by the name of
> the "new" family... >>
>
> Or you will be given directions to "turn left at the barn" that burned
> down in in 1956. Tell me this doesn't happen in rural areas everywhere . .
> . not just in the USA.
"Down by the new shearing shed", that was put up 20 years ago, and is
just as run down as the "old" one.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2063
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Traveller-digest Sunday, March 12 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2064
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Re Return of Cliff?
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
RE: The Mafia in the Imperium
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Minor races and jump drive
Re: The Yanks are Coming
Re: yanks
Re: Fwd: FF&S2 question
Psi induced jump (was Re: jump induced psi)
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: GT ship creation
OT - ship design in a different game system
RE: The Mafia in the Imperium
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2050
Dave Must Go ...
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Helos on S. Is. NZ
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 13:18:30 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Re Return of Cliff?
On 11 Mar 00, at 3:12, john hamilton wrote:
> everything.It seems that's your problem.You simply
> can't adapt to modern things,which is double funny in
> a List about SF.
Oooh, aren't we touchy today.
I seem to have adapted to the etiquette required by the new medium
we're using at this moment rather better than some.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 13:18:30 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
On 11 Mar 00, at 3:09, john hamilton wrote:
>
>
> --- Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> > What? The rpg that brought us _Shadows_ is more war
> > game than rpg? I
> > suggest you compare CT with contemporary rpgs (the
> > original D&D, etc)
> >
> Who cares about the past (Well you do,).I'm comparing
> it with today's games.
Which ones? World of Darkness: semi-interactive novel writing. D&D:
Monster bashing/fantasy skirmish game. Assorted Mecha games: Space
Opera shoot-em-ups.
You might want to define role-playing, too.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 19:55:18 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford
Subject: RE: The Mafia in the Imperium
At 04:52 PM 03/12/2000 -0500, Chris and Rob wrote:
>Robert Snyder writes:
>
> >Is there anything Imperium-wide that could create an Imperium-
> >spanning Mafia Organization? Such an organization would perhaps be
> >stronger than any MegaCorporation and would perhaps be stronger than
> >the Imperium itself.
>
> I can think of a few reasons that a Mafia-like organization
> would be unlikely to gain that much power (at least, IMTU).
My $.02: There seem to be only a couple of things that get Imperial notice
- - taking problems into space, psionics, and a few others. Most things are
criminal in one place and not in another. A megacorp seems, for most of
these quasi-criminal activities, to be the ideal business to handle
it. One replier mentioned the cigarette smuggling on the USA's east
coast. In the 3I, would the Imperials even care? The only laws being
broken would be the (local import) laws of the losing and/or gaining star
systems. As long as Imperial laws weren't broken, why would they
interfere? That being the case, a criminal organization wouldn't even be
necessary beyond that part resident in the system(s) where the activity was
illegal... The perfectly legal, Imperium-supporting, wealth-producing,
good corporate citizen megacorp would simply have its special imports (or
exports) division in charge of (locally illegal) corporate activities in
system X...
Bill Rutherford
worj@home.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 18:55:23 -0600
From: Bolie Williams IV
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
I have an idea... why don't all you guys just ignore anyone
who pisses you off instead of name calling and complaining.
i've been vaguely watching this whole thing and seeing people
get all bent out of shape over things people say. I remember
my mom telling me that sticks and stones can break my bones
but words can't hurt me.
So just move on and talk about Traveller or something.
Bolie IV
At 9:17 AM -0600 3/10/2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>At 08:28 AM 3/10/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>
>>Like the "we"
>
>You are ignoring the several people that have said that they agree wioth me.
>
>>Deal with it.
>
>No. Either cease to BS, or leave.
>--
>
>Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
- --
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 00:31:34 +0000
From: Paul Campbell
Subject: Re: Minor races and jump drive
On Sun, 12 Mar 2000, Ingo Heinscher wrote:
> >(3) Zuchai Crystals? Never heard of them.
>
> This is actually true for me. I know anbout Lanthanum that is required for
> ajump drive, but "Zuchai Crystals"?
Zuchai Crystals hold the energy created (H + H = He) from the several tons
hydrogen in your jump tanks. This energy is then released in a controlled
manner to the lanthanum grid causing the tumble into jumpspace. They are also
called Jump Capacitors.
> >On some worlds or star systems Zuchai Crystals simply don't exist. As they
> >are a vital component in jump drive, no Zuchai Crystals means no drive.
Zuchai Crystals are just the most commonly used - they aren't the only choice.
They are the most efficient however.
> >They can be synthesised, but then you need that technology before you can
> >develop jump technology (and if Zuchai Crystals have no other purpose than
> >use in jump drives, why would you synthesise them in the first place?)
I wouldn't say that that was their only use. Imagine the capabilities they
have to hold vast quantities of energy before releasing them. Now instead of a
a lanthanum grid, that energy was routed through some argon gas/crystal (?) and
the resulting laser was used to propel a light sail ship out of the stellar
system. Or as a weapon of mass descruction (as opposed to one of Construction
:P )
>
> >(5) It's all a plot!
>
> :) Not everyone's taste.
It's a game with stories in it. I like my stories with plots, and milk and
cookies. :) Which actually reminds me of an old Thrudd the Barbarian strip from
the hayday of White Dwarf. Thrudd ("Strength of Twenty Men(tm), Brain of a
Garden Snail(tm)) goes through almost and entire A4ish page of meaningless,
plotless characteristic violence, with attendant sound effects *SCHLEP*,
*SWIP*, *URK*, *ERK*, *SPLONK* etc. The artist walks in to the scene and
comments: 'I still think it could do with a plot'. Thrudd scratches his head,
picks the artist up by the feet, swings him over his head and down, head first
into the ground like plough share *PLOT*. :)
- --
Paul Campbell
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 11:58:39 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: The Yanks are Coming
In mail you write:
> Now, I was curious as to what types of things you would put into YTU
> paralelling things like this? Say the predominently Terran crew lands on a
> world that is mainly, Vargr what would some of the "cool" little things that
> the crew has to do to "adapt" be?
Check travel books. Try to find ones that warn you about cultural
differences. Even "minor" differences can be *really* jarring.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 20:05:19 -0500
From: "Sword-Worlder"
Subject: Re: yanks
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
> The true yankee is a New Englander descended from the original English
> settlers. Other peoples who settled in New England in colonial times
> aren't yankees, nor are English settlers who settled elsewhere in the
> British North American colonies. Upper Massachusetts ("Maine" to some)
> has a relatively high percentage of yankees, but not all Maineacs are
> true yanks.
I've only been in Maine 10 years, so I'm not considered a Mainah. I am a
yankee, however. A "swamp yankee". (figure that out ;-) I was told much
the same thing growing up, that we are yankees because our family settled
here under British rule. The name was meant to deride, like calling someone
a hick, but was taken as a badge of honor during the Revolution. At least
that is the tripe I was sold :-D
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Colin Michael, WebDev
www.downport.com
The Traveller Domain
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 20:13:52 -0500
From: "David J. Golden"
Subject: Re: Fwd: FF&S2 question
(Posted to the list and directly to the original author of the
questions)
First step--IG printed FF&S2 without any proofreading at all, and
their page layout software screwed up the equations. Corrections are
available from several sites on the Webring; some are on mine
(www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/Traveller).
M sub-f: this is the mass of the (f)uel
M sub-tot: this is the (tot)al mass of the rocket, INCLUDING the
fuel.
At 01:57 pm 3/12/00 -0600, Loren Wiseman wrote:
>Can anyone help this gentleman?
>
>I am fuctionally innumerate beyond the simple four functions.
>
>>Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 20:07:33 -0800 (PST)
>>From: Dale Meier
>>Subject: FF&S2 question
>>To: lkw@io.com
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>
>>Dear Mr. Wiseman--
>>
>> I have a question regarding the equations in FF&S2.
>>Years ago when I studied algebra in high school, I
>>studied what it means for a number to have a power in
>>subscript next to it. Unfortunately, I've forgotten.
>>For example, the equation *V=ln(M sub-f / M
>>sub-tot)*3600/FC*FD (the equation appears on page 12
>>under "Realistic Thrust)--how do I handle the
>>subscript notation? I haven't the foggiest clue
>>anymore how to handle it and my scientific calculator
>>does not support such a function. What should I do?
>>Just chalk FF&S2 up as a loss and use BTRC's Vehicle
>>Design System to design vehicles in Traveller?
>>
>>Pax,
>>
>>Dale Meier
>>__________________________________________________
>>Do You Yahoo!?
>>Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
>>http://im.yahoo.com
>>
>
>
>
>Loren Wiseman
> Traveller Line Manager
> Traveller Guru-in-Residence
> Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
> http://jtas.sjgames.com/
> SJ Games
> LKW@IO.COM
> (512) 447-7866 VOX
> (512) 447-1144 FAX
>
>
>
- -- Cthulhu in 2000! Why settle for the lesser evils?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 20:21:36 -0500
From: "Josh W. Spencer"
Subject: Psi induced jump (was Re: jump induced psi)
Ludowick@aol.com wrote:
>
> Damn this is cool! How about psis with powerful special talents born
> to survivors of exposure to jump space? (As long as it doesn't turn
> their eyes silver). The whole thing plays on the mysterious nature of
> jump travel (don't look out the window too long), and would make a good
> seed for a dark, find the psi type detective adventure. Go for it.
>
There was an anthology story from a LONG time ago where an American soldier
from the 1950s gets plucked by an alien vessel, They call him "Pusher" and
tell him that all Pushers do what he's supposed to do...push the vessel of
course. They give him Pusher food, tell him about all the Pusher worlds out
there. He said he'd love to go with them, but he's AWOL. And of course the
Army gets ready to blow the alien spaceship to smithereens, and the aliens
plead with Pusher one more time to get him to work with them, to escape this
primitive planet.
The only way he could do it was for the aliens to reveal to him his deepest,
primal fears...and suddenly the vessel's velocity was up and through the
light barrier!!
I think the name of the anthology was "Untouched by Human Hands."
ObTrav: Suppose a human planet is discovered with a low-TL industrial
civilization (TL 5-7) but the entire population has an extra or modified DNA
marker which: 1) makes them psi capable, and 2) the psi allows them to open
jump points. Whoever discovers this planet will want to keep it a BIG secret
from their enemies as well as the general Imperial populace...and the
Zhodani. Perhaps Grandfather mucked with this one little planet's DNA just
to see what happens.
- --
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)
VILANI ALIAS: Iashir Rekiinikimas Uiagam
Ypsilanti, Michigan, North America, Terra
Sol Subsector, Solomani Rim Sector
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 19:53:11 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
If there are such organizations IYTU, here are some things they might be
smuggling:
http://turing.furman.edu/homepages/matt/fun.html
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 20:53:06 EST
From: TDRandall@aol.com
Subject: Re: GT ship creation
In a message dated 3/12/00 4:38:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, thrash@io.com
writes:
<< (3) As Eris alluded, GT: Starships is in the works, and will include a
complete suite of modules from TL7-12, with some TL13 experimental tech
(space permitting). I still need all kinds of submissions; check out:
http://www.io.com/~thrash/starship.html
>>
Looks sooooo promising! I can barely wait.
And thank you to everybody for your responses!
Tony
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 21:03:38 EST
From: TDRandall@aol.com
Subject: OT - ship design in a different game system
I realize this is a completely different gaming system, but your reponses
have been so great on the recent GURPS traveller ship info, so here goes
nothing....
One of my earliest RPG buys (boy this is going to date me) was SPIs Universe
setting. In it was a woefully inadequate ships section. It had travel
times, and a perhaps at most 10 cookie cutter "ships". Of course, the core
rule book didn't discuss how to make your own ships, nor how to conduct
starship combat. Instead it directed the reader to Delta-Vee for these
things, but all I've been able to find out on Delta-Vee was a hex-based basic
combat system. Nothing at how the Universe ships modules converted into game
stats and absolutely zip nada on creating your own.
Now, this can go one of several ways. I'd enjoy detailed rules on both parts
of how to do these things in Universe (sentimental value only of course, to
close the book on it, since the game system is rather dated) but shudder at
copyright rules even for a defunct company (as I understand it). On the
other hand, one of the "elders" of the list may have a copy of these rules
they might be willing to part with for REASONABLE money?
Ever grateful,
Tony
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 01:36:22 +0000
From: Paul Campbell
Subject: RE: The Mafia in the Imperium
On Mon, 13 Mar 2000, Bill Rutherford wrote:
> At 04:52 PM 03/12/2000 -0500, Chris and Rob wrote:
> >Robert Snyder writes:
> >
> > >Is there anything Imperium-wide that could create an Imperium-
> > >spanning Mafia Organization? Such an organization would perhaps be
> > >stronger than any MegaCorporation and would perhaps be stronger than
> > >the Imperium itself.
> >
> > I can think of a few reasons that a Mafia-like organization
> > would be unlikely to gain that much power (at least, IMTU).
>
> My $.02: There seem to be only a couple of things that get Imperial notice
> - taking problems into space, psionics, and a few others. Most things are
> criminal in one place and not in another. A megacorp seems, for most of
> these quasi-criminal activities, to be the ideal business to handle
> it. One replier mentioned the cigarette smuggling on the USA's east
> coast. In the 3I, would the Imperials even care? The only laws being
> broken would be the (local import) laws of the losing and/or gaining star
> systems. As long as Imperial laws weren't broken, why would they
> interfere? That being the case, a criminal organization wouldn't even be
> necessary beyond that part resident in the system(s) where the activity was
> illegal... The perfectly legal, Imperium-supporting, wealth-producing,
> good corporate citizen megacorp would simply have its special imports (or
> exports) division in charge of (locally illegal) corporate activities in
> system X...
Tell me what you think of this. World A produces a good: Wallaces Wonder
Widgets. The only market for these Widgets is World B. World B has started
producing Old Larry's Elementals which are compatible with WWW (ahem). The
government of World B want's their own industry to flourish so give tax breaks
to Old Larry's producers. This allows Old Larry, and his substandard
Elementals, to undercut the imported Widgets. World A has no other market to
sell to.
Would the Imperium turn a blind eye when World A starts smuggling Widgets into
World B. Or would they actually step in and insist that Wallace's and Old
Larry's be allowed to compete on equal terms, in which case Wallace would win
the greater market share with their superior product.
This then raises opportunities for World B or Old Larry to arrange sabotage at
Wallaces production/shipping concerns.
> Bill Rutherford
> worj@home.com
- --
Paul Campbell
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 01:50:41 +0000
From: Paul Campbell
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
On Mon, 13 Mar 2000, Bolie Williams IV wrote:
> I have an idea... why don't all you guys just ignore anyone
> who pisses you off instead of name calling and complaining.
> i've been vaguely watching this whole thing and seeing people
> get all bent out of shape over things people say. I remember
> my mom telling me that sticks and stones can break my bones
> but words can't hurt me.
>
> So just move on and talk about Traveller or something.
>
> Bolie IV
Agreed. I just wish the standards on the rest of the list were much lower so I
could unsub. But the rest of the list (posts not people) is actually very
good. I just wish I didn't have to pay to download all this extra name
calling. I live in britain. I pay for my internet. I pay for your words.
Whether I read them or not.
I've said my piece, now I'll shut up. :P
(gee I used the 'I' word 9 times, no 10 now. Oops said it again - er no I
didn't - aaragh I just did it - and again I said it, Argghh!!)
- --
Paul Campbell
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 02:07:11 +0000
From: Paul Campbell
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
On Mon, 13 Mar 2000, Paul Campbell wrote:
>
> Agreed. I just wish the standards on the rest of the list were much lower so I
> could unsub. But the rest of the list (posts not people) is actually very
Ignore the bit in brackets - that didn't come out quite right. :| Didn'tmean
that the people weren't good.
Right, now before anyone notices - run!!
> good. I just wish I didn't have to pay to download all this extra name
> calling. I live in britain. I pay for my internet. I pay for your words.
> Whether I read them or not.
>
> I've said my piece, now I'll shut up. :P
>
> (gee I used the 'I' word 9 times, no 10 now. Oops said it again - er no I
> didn't - aaragh I just did it - and again I said it, Argghh!!)
>
> --
> Paul Campbell
> kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk
- --
Paul Campbell
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 18:30:24 -0800
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2050
Via electronic medium on 3/11/00 1:23 PM, katts@globalfreeway.com.au wrote:
> Basically, modern jump drives are monkey-copies of Ancient artificacts up
> until you start hitting about TL16-17. And Bad Things keep happening to
> cultures that get to TL16-17 (eg Star Trigger, Black War Rebellion).
You and Bruce have pegged it IMO, but what is this "Black War Rebellion"?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 22:55:53 -0500
From: "David J. Golden"
Subject: Dave Must Go ...
Due to severe time constraints and other Real-World issues and
concerns, Dave (aka the Horseman Famine, of the Four Horsemen of the
Traveller Apocalypse) is being forced to cut back on what meagre time
he has had available to spend on Traveller. At the same time, he
finds it difficult to completely let go. He'll be signing off in a
few days, but he's planning on lurking via another account. However,
he expects to be doing quite a bit of unread deleting, so if you need
to be sure he gets something, email direct.
As a parting gift (akin to a grenade), Dave thinks it might be funny
to get a few things off his chest he manfully bottled up at the time,
and see how many flame wars start up behind his back. So herewith, a
few of my opinions and nits mixed thoroughly:
- - I still think TNE was far and above the best version of Traveller
to date (not counting GT, since I've had no exposure).
-- The rules tried to improve on previous versions, such as
integrating personal, vehicle, and spacecraft combat into a single
system
-- The setting was interesting. I found it humorous to listen to
people claim the TNE setting was dark and depressing, and extol the
virtues of Milieu 0 in the same breath. Let's see, you can either
play somebody who's trying to make a difference, to bring about a new
dawn and build a bright new Camelot. Or you can play in a classical
robber-baron, conquer and plunder, oppress the masses setting. Hmm
...
-- I busted a gut when people whined about how there's no way Virus
was possible, because it would have to hack into a wide variety of
systems, and then bitched when anybody implied there was a system
that COULDN'T be hacked by a *person*. *Excuse me*, but Virus as
described IS a person! Anything a human character can do with a
computer, a Virus person should be able to do ... only faster. Think
things through, folks. You can't have it both ways.
-- I didn't even mind the d20 once I got over my initial resistance.
I sure liked it a heck of a lot better than that durn half-die pasted
in T4.
- - Fighters are worthless in real combat, suitable only for harassing
unarmed merchants. Deal with it.
- - Bruce's Definitive Sensor Rules ROCK!
- - Impact missiles are worthless in space combat. Deal with it.
- - Lonely Aslan females can do whatever they want. None of my
business, and I don't care.
- - Piracy happens, but they don't last long in mainline/developed
worlds.
- - Of COURSE you can't break even using the standard trade rules. They
weren't MEANT to model the economy of the Imperium--they were meant
to model the difficulties of life on the edge, as a tramp trader.
Don't apply them to the big boys, and you won't have problems. If
players could make a living schlepping 60Dtons of crates from point A
to point B and back, there wouldn't be much point in Travelling, now,
would there?
- - Mayday movement rules make Brilliant Lances much better. What were
they thinking with that weird directional rosette thing, anyway?
- - People whining that the slightest touch of "realism and science"
get in the way of fun often means that the whiners simply don't have
the creativity to get beyond Hollywood pap and mind-sets. SCIENCE
Fiction Adventure in the Far Future! Doesn't mean *everything* has to
be buildable with current tech ... but the rules that describe the
universe have to be consistent.
- - The US has its problems, warts, and running sores, but overall it's
still THE BEST DAMN PLACE IN THE WORLD!
- - There's a difference between "it's" and "its," "they're" and
"their," and "effect" and "affect," and ordnance and ordinance. And
you don't use apostrophes to indicate plural!*
- - Of COURSE Traveller comes across as "Yanks in Space"--it was
written by Yanks for Yanks. But that doesn't mean non-Yanks can't
help expand that original mindset and improve things.
Keep the flame, folks. Make sure this game is still here when I have
time to spend on it.
* Ordnance is what you drop on bad guys (preferably in large
quantities, at near-c speeds, from orbit), ordinances are what the
meter maids enforce. "To effect" is to cause something (He effected a
change). "To affect" means to have an impact on (The change affected
all our lives). It's is a contraction for it is, while its is the
third person neuter possessive. They're is a contraction of they are,
their is the third person plural possessive. And if you add one cow
to one cow, you get two cows. Cow's indicates the cow is the owner
('possessive') of something being referenced.
- -- There is no game but Traveller, and varied and wonderful
- -- are its manifestations.
- -- Cthulhu in 2000! Why settle for the lesser evils?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 19:58:00 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
In mail you write:
> At 06:14 PM 3/11/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>>"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
>>
>>> What makes it fun is having several crime groups in the same area. Here
>>>in SF we have Tongs, Vietnamese street gangs, honest to God Mafioso,
>>>yakuza.. all trying to control the same slices of the pie. It has led to a
>>>shadow war of some proportions.
>>
>>Hehe. You know why the mafia isn't really established in Los
>>Angeles don't you? The police beat them to it. :-P
>
> *grin* There's another good angle; you go to the cops, and find out that
> hey're on the take...
No, no...
The cops are a joke. The *real* "serve & protect" bit is done by the
local syndicate. You pay your "insurance" and anybody stealing from you
will have the boys from the syndicate getting your stuff returned, and
"explaining" to the miscreant the error of his ways.
Done right, it should even be a moderately stable social system.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 20:22:38 -0500 (PST)
From: "Curtis Phillips"
Subject: Helos on S. Is. NZ
>Thing is, it would take them some time to get down to the South Island, and
>there the largest is probably a Jet Ranger, which can't easily carry more
>than two stretchers at a time, and then only with the right gear.
Actually, I got to fly (left seat no less!) an Aerospatial Aloette III
(forgive mis-spellings, my French is truly awful) out of Franz Josef.
I recall the owner said he did SAR work as well as helo-touring and
preferred the extra lift the Aloette had over the Bell. It felt a
little more nimble than the various USN/USMC helos I've flown. Still
there's nothing like strapping on a Snake (aka AH-1 Cobra) and hedge
hopping! As for med-evac work, these days I'm seeing a lot more helos
that are NOT Bell Jet Rangers than those that are. Perhaps, it's
finally going out of vogue?
Remember, you always want to land skid-side-down. ;)
Curtis Phillips
Winery & Vineyard Consultant
(805) 886-8941
(805) 348-9220
phillips@saber.net
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 23:38:38 -0500
From: Steve Daniels
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
> What the real OC groups do is when this happens is to retaliate against the
> people that *don't* have highly placed friends. Free Trader A has
> connections to the Sector Admiral? Then traders B, C, and D get threatened
> with a leg breaking and told it's because A can't keep his mouth shut.
> When the heat comes down everybody swears that there's nothing going on,
> and happily pays the scratch to keep their ship.
Hehehe. This reminds me a lot of some of the defendant questionings
I was present for when I worked at the Organized Crime and Drug
Enforcement Task Force of the US Attorney's Office in Boston. But
without the overt threats of violence. Its more along the lines of
"You don't think Mr. Big knows where you are right now? And
do you think he is gonna care if it was you or the other mule we have
in custody that talked? You trust that crackhead not to talk?"
Classic "Prisoner's Dilemma" in action.
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 23:43:47 -0500
From: Steve Daniels
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium
Paul Campbell wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Mar 2000, Bill Rutherford wrote:
> > At 04:52 PM 03/12/2000 -0500, Chris and Rob wrote:
> > >Robert Snyder writes:
> > >
> > > >Is there anything Imperium-wide that could create an Imperium-
> > > >spanning Mafia Organization? Such an organization would perhaps be
> > > >stronger than any MegaCorporation and would perhaps be stronger than
> > > >the Imperium itself.
> > >
> > > I can think of a few reasons that a Mafia-like organization
> > > would be unlikely to gain that much power (at least, IMTU).
> >
> > My $.02: There seem to be only a couple of things that get Imperial notice
> > - taking problems into space, psionics, and a few others. Most things are
> > criminal in one place and not in another. A megacorp seems, for most of
> > these quasi-criminal activities, to be the ideal business to handle
> > it. One replier mentioned the cigarette smuggling on the USA's east
> > coast. In the 3I, would the Imperials even care? The only laws being
> > broken would be the (local import) laws of the losing and/or gaining star
> > systems. As long as Imperial laws weren't broken, why would they
> > interfere? That being the case, a criminal organization wouldn't even be
> > necessary beyond that part resident in the system(s) where the activity was
> > illegal... The perfectly legal, Imperium-supporting, wealth-producing,
> > good corporate citizen megacorp would simply have its special imports (or
> > exports) division in charge of (locally illegal) corporate activities in
> > system X...
>
> Tell me what you think of this. World A produces a good: Wallaces Wonder
> Widgets. The only market for these Widgets is World B. World B has started
> producing Old Larry's Elementals which are compatible with WWW (ahem). The
> government of World B want's their own industry to flourish so give tax breaks
> to Old Larry's producers. This allows Old Larry, and his substandard
> Elementals, to undercut the imported Widgets. World A has no other market to
> sell to.
A classic tariff trade war (the local tax break is like a tariff on imports,
effectively).
> Would the Imperium turn a blind eye when World A starts smuggling Widgets into
> World B. Or would they actually step in and insist that Wallace's and Old
> Larry's be allowed to compete on equal terms, in which case Wallace would win
> the greater market share with their superior product.
It depends. How much money are we talking about? The Imperial
Ministry of Commerce can't be bothered with every little trade barrier
that comes around. And tolerating some of this activity helps to explain
the widely divergent tech levels in different systems, at least in part.
Jim McClean can speak to that point more eloquently than I. But then
we end up questioning fundamental assumptions of the OTU and that
just leads to . . .
HERESY!
bloo
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2064
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Traveller-digest Monday, March 13 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2065
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
re: New Zealand air force,
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
RE: The Mafia in the Imperium
MM just publish background - ie. do we need T5?
RE: New Zealand air farce
RE: Lo-tek mercenaries
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #2050
Re: THUDDD Help
Re: THUDDD Help (and CT THUDDD Equivalent?)
Re: Best rules system
Re: Traveller Proofread commit
Re: TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
This thread at the request of sanity.
Re: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
Zuchai Crystals (was: Re: Minor races and jump drive)
Re: Re Return of Cliff?
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Re Return of Cliff?
Re: Modern Traveller
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: John vs Clif vs Leroy...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 21:03:10 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: re: New Zealand air force,
>Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 12:32:45 +1000
>From: "Alan Bradley"
>Subject: re: New Zealand air force, Imperium attack craft, & Meritocracies
...
>We also have to allow for the possibility that the Anatolian Illuminati
More realistically, the ANZAC's may want revenge on the planners :|
>might attempt to seek revenge for New Zealand's invasion of Turkey in World
>War I, by assisting the penguins to develop flight capability, or by waking
>Cthulhu.
Ah, but the Anatolians are too crafty to do anything to attract attention
to themselves - you didn't see them getting handed their heads in WW2, did
you? Besides, they know that The Stars Will Be Right by the time that they
reach the Spinward Marches or thereabouts :>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 00:13:27 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
From: Rupert Boleyn
John Hamilton said:
> > Who cares about the past (Well you do,).I'm comparing
> > it with today's games.
>
> Which ones?
> World of Darkness: semi-interactive novel writing. D&D:
> Monster bashing/fantasy skirmish game. Assorted Mecha games:
> Space Opera shoot-em-ups.
>
> You might want to define role-playing, too.
Why would he? Everyone on this list knows exactly what roleplaying is.
Granted, folks like to quibble about the particulars in order to bash things
they're not fond of (as John did, and as you appear to be doing here,
Rupert).
A roleplaying game is little more than an elaborate excuse to get a bunch of
people around a table. Lacking a table and a group of friends, it's an
excuse to get an email game going, or a mailing list to discuss the finer
(?) points of various elements of the game.
Everything else is a special effect. To speak to John's comments, yes,
Classic Traveller really shows its wargame roots (although I disagree with
his claim that Trav started out as more of a wargame). C'mon, you've got
Striker, High Guard, Mayday, Trillion Credit Squadron and so on. The very
background of CT was designed with this wargame flavor in mind.
Not that this is a bad thing, mind you. I personally tend to not care for
it, but I'm a gamist first, dramatist second and simulationist a distant
third. I do like wargaming, but it doesn't fit with my RPG aesthetic. I'm
firmly entrenched in the Tomb of Horrors / Shadows / Legion of Gold school
of roleplaying.
Every RPG has its hook, however. The World of Darkness games are rich in
background and attitude and they focus on unhindered dramatist-style
roleplaying. I'm not sure how that gets defined as "semi-interactive novel
writing". AD&D tends to lend itself toward small, but balanced groups facing
off against progressively more difficult challenges... and so on.
Traveller has a few hooks, and while these hooks don't appeal to everybody,
they do seem to appeal to certain people rather strongly. One of these hooks
is a strong grasp of roleplaying's wargaming roots, much stronger than most
other RPGs.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 00:17:50 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford
Subject: RE: The Mafia in the Imperium
At 01:36 AM 03/13/2000 +0000, Paul wrote:
>.... World A produces a good: Wallaces Wonder
>Widgets. The only market for these Widgets is World B. World B has started
>producing Old Larry's Elementals which are compatible with WWW (ahem). The
>government of World B want's their own industry to flourish so give tax breaks
>to Old Larry's producers. This allows Old Larry, and his substandard
>Elementals, to undercut the imported Widgets. World A has no other market to
>sell to.
>
>Would the Imperium turn a blind eye when World A starts smuggling Widgets into
>World B. Or would they actually step in and insist that Wallace's and Old
>Larry's be allowed to compete on equal terms, in which case Wallace would win
>the greater market share with their superior product.
Unless a clear Imperial interest were at stake, I suspect they'd turn a
blind eye. I'm not up on Imperial law, but does breaking planetary law
necessarily break any Imperial laws - specifically as regards
smuggling? In the USA, the (Federal) Interstate Commerce Commish gets
involved in these sorts of disputes. Is there an Imperial analog? (That
was a plea to anybody out there who both knows and cares!)
Bill Rutherford
worj@home.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 00:25:23 -0500
From: Peter Miller
Subject: MM just publish background - ie. do we need T5?
Hi,
I'm mainly a lurker; but something occured to me recently; and I'm not sure
if its been discussed recently. I was off the list for a while, so I may
have missed it.
Do we really need T5?
With all of the Traveller editions out there; with all of the different
house rules, do we need another rules system? I mean, when it comes out we
are not going to all uniformly drop our own precisely compiled system of
Traveller and start playing this new version exclusively.
CT, MT and T4 carry the banner of 'classic' Traveller, while TNE hits those
who liked the system (I can't say much more for it, because I was never a
fan) and GURPS is there for those new to Traveller but not to RPGs, and for
those of us who like to run the same group of players through hell by
shoving them into superhero campaigns, fantasy, science fiction, etc.
without a change is rules.
So, my quesiton is, why doesn't MM just publish new source
material? Perhaps Far Future Enterprises could commission authors to
write new background material for Traveller; any ruleset. If you like
TNE's rules but want to game in the Interstellar Wars Era, then all we need
is a sourcebook, without a new rules system for that era. If the FFE
materials used the BITS task system, then conversion from the published
material to everyone's modified house system would be simple.
Plus, this would mean a little less time in getting 'T5' to print.
So, there's my idea; T5 should not be new rules, just more of what
Traveller is personally for me; a great SF universe that I want more
sourcebooks on! ;-)
Peter Miller
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 18:33:01 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: New Zealand air farce
> > If Harriers were less tempermental and weren't a British
> > design, I'd have picked them. (Nothing wrong with the British,
> > hell, I am one, but if you've ever worked on British aircraft,
> > you'd know why I'd rather not have them.
>
> Good grief, I didn't know that Lucas (aka "the Prince of Darkness") did
> aircraft electrical systems as well as doing automotive ones.
They used to, I certainly have servciced Lucas alternators and starter
motors from older British aircraft such as the Tiger Moth.
But that wasn't what I was thinking of, the problem with British aircraft is
that they are not designed for easy maintenance. In fact I don;t think the
designers _ever_ thought of how they were going to be maintained .
For instance, in order to replace the starter on the BAC Strikemaster you
have to split the fuselage in half and partially remove the engine.
To check the fatigue meters on the H-S Andover, something done after every
flight, you have to climb into the belly of aircraft with a mirror and a
flashlight, and try and squeeze your mirror round the oxygen bottles while
trying to shine your flashlight on it so you can actually read the digits.
That sort of thing.
This has a direct Ob Trav:, of course, invent a few difficult service
functions on starships made that way because the designer didn't think about
how the maintenance tech was going to get to something.
In spaceships, you have more options, you can say "X was never designed to
be serviced in jump space, the designers didn't think anyone would be silly
enough to try and service one of those in jump, _that's_ swhy the accces
hatch is on the hull"
> (Actually, when speaking of Lucas, the proper phrase might be "as badly
> as" :-)
>
> For those for whom the above makes no sense, allow me to explain.
>
> Lucas is a British company that is *notorious*, as they make the (very,
> very *bad*) electrical systems for most British autos (or at least they
> used to). Calling their systems "failure prone" is a *compliment*.
Well, my experience of Lucas parts on Tiger Moths and early Moris Minor's is
that they were extremely reliable, certainly better than the US
"replacement" parts.
They were easily serviceable, you could replace the carbon-pile on a Lucas
regulator and recalibrate it in about fifteen minutes, without even removing
it from the aircraft, which is more than could be said for the Ford version
of the same part, which you had to throw away or spend hours digging the
conformal coating off.
I suspect you may be referrig to the 'new' Lucas, they were bought out by an
Asian conglomerate in the late 70's marketing cheap asian product under the
Lucas name.
> ObTrav: The Imperium may have a few companies equally notorious for
> poor quality due to being the *only* supplier in a region (and thus
> able to have a "take it or leave it" attitude).
I've done this before in Traveller.
In general I had most Vilani megacorps like this, because there was no real
competitiion between them, they had long ago decided which corp handled what
market.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 18:44:16 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: Lo-tek mercenaries
> On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
> "They're using the Grand Ballroom for *what*!?"
>
> And real fun would be a contract to haul cavalry!
Reminds me of that Olaf Stapledon book (Last & First Men ?) where the
barbarian horde ride their horses out of antique "heirloom" spacecraft,
maintained by the
tech-priests, to take the world.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 18:57:27 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #2050
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Benyamene'
> ZeAbe' Akella
> Sent: Monday, 13 March 2000 15:30
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2050
>
>
> Via electronic medium on 3/11/00 1:23 PM,
> katts@globalfreeway.com.au wrote:
>
> > Basically, modern jump drives are monkey-copies of Ancient artificacts
up
> > until you start hitting about TL16-17. And Bad Things keep happening to
> > cultures that get to TL16-17 (eg Star Trigger, Black War Rebellion).
>
> You and Bruce have pegged it IMO, but what is this "Black War Rebellion"?
They mean the "Black War" period of the Rebellion in MegaTraveller.
This was when Lucan and others supposedly used "weapons of mass destruction"
on worlds that did not support their cause.
No one knows for sure who started it, or can even prove that any particular
faction actuallly did it..... but _something_ made several worlds
inihabitable.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 22:15:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Frodo Baggins
Subject: Re: THUDDD Help
Black ICE wrote:
>
> Until you pointed that out to me, I didn't know that
> Jason had added LBB2/HG to the list of design >
systems. Prior to > THUDDD 10, all THUDDD entries >
were for T4 (THUDDD 10 added GT to the > allowed >
design systems). I don't know why Jason unilaterally
> added LBB2/HG to > THUDDD. (I'll > e-mail him >
directly about this issue.)
To further confuse the issue, the following two THUDDD
sites are almost identical, including "last modified"
date, except that the first allows Classic Traveller
submissions, while the second one does not:
http://www.releasingthefire.com/thuddd/index.html
http://thuddd.homepage.com/
Personally, I feel that Classic Traveller ship
designers should be invited to the contest. Dance
with the partner that started it all...
Sam
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 00:44:00 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: THUDDD Help (and CT THUDDD Equivalent?)
Frodo Baggins wrote:
>
<>
>
> Personally, I feel that Classic Traveller ship
> designers should be invited to the contest. Dance
> with the partner that started it all...
The problem is that CT (LBB2/HG) designs differ in so many ways from T4
(QSDS, SSDS, and FF&S2) designs. There is no real way to compare the
two, thus making head-to-head competition impractical.
For instance, I've found that large FF&S2 ships tend to have _much_
higher crew requirements than equivalent HG ships. This difference has
all kinds of cascade effects (life support, quarters, crew expenses, et
cetera).
OTOH, is there any equivalent to THUDDD for CT designs?
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 00:11:35 -0500
From: "Chauncey Smith"
Subject: Re: Best rules system
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jesse LaBranche
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: Sunday, March 12, 2000 9:11 AM
Subject: Best rules system
>1.How many versions of Traveller have been released at
>this point?
up till now there have been 5 vesions of traveller released in what believe
is 4 differnt systems.
CT/MT being the first TNE then T4 and lastly GURP: Traveller GT.
>2.Which game system does which version run on?
All of them are fairly compateable as far as charaters are concerned. but
vechiles have to be converted.
>3.What is the current version and game system in production?
Gurps traveller is the only one in production but that means you have access
to the gurps books for support
...
>4.What do you think are the strengths in your favorite version/
>system over the other ones in print?
My favorite is TNE and it works well with T4 equipment and standards and
it's the most modern of all the traveller flavours that use the traveller
system. I really like the way it went but it's more hard sci then the
others.
>5.What do you think they could have improved on in your
>favoirte version/system? Does another version/system have
>these improvements? How hard would the conversion be to
>do?
I have no problems I haven't had to hack it much
>6.Any other notes that you would care to let me know regarding
>which system would probably be the best to purchase?
I'd suggest gurps not alot of OOP stuff to hunt down.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 02:32:28 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller Proofread commit
Jens Rydholm agrees:
>Chauncey Smith wrote:
>> What I would love to see in the next edition of traveller is good
>> play testing by ppl who don't know how to play the game already.
>
>You are *so* right in this.
This is a technique called Blind Testing. It is all too evident that
most of the industry doesn't do it enough (or at all). Heck. Even normal
Playtesting (by someone who PAYS ATTENTION to their testers) is
seemingly beyond the ken of too many companies...
GC
"It's all right Little Brother! There are more!"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 00:30:28 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> At 12:29 AM 3/11/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>
> >> >Fine, that will be $50.00.
> >>
> >> How much does that work out to per TML member who actually read
> >> the post?
> >
> >Don't forget Rob's Brokers cut.
>
> Not if I use my Bribery-3 to get the cargo under the table.
Watch out for his customs cutters though...
- --
Evyn...
TMLUPP:5C7A78
C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/
Wish I was a better person... with more control...
Turn the other cheek... and when the punch comes, roll...
Wish I was a kinder person... could see the others pain...
Not over react, not judge... and shrug off the spreadin' stain.
Damaged, by John Shirley/Donald Roeser, BOC, Heaven Forbid 1998.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 00:37:27 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude
Subject: This thread at the request of sanity.
eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
> One was a good entry for the Burrito File and
> something else.
What ever happened to the Burrito File?
> I think it was a html character sheet, but I not
> sure.
- --
Evyn...
TMLUPP:5C7A78
C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/
Wish I was a better person... with more control...
Turn the other cheek... and when the punch comes, roll...
Wish I was a kinder person... could see the others pain...
Not over react, not judge... and shrug off the spreadin' stain.
Damaged, by John Shirley/Donald Roeser, BOC, Heaven Forbid 1998.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 00:41:42 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude
Subject: Re: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> Why do we have mottos in Latin?
Because, Swedish is too Obscure?
- --
Evyn...
TMLUPP:5C7A78
C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/
Wish I was a better person... with more control...
Turn the other cheek... and when the punch comes, roll...
Wish I was a kinder person... could see the others pain...
Not over react, not judge... and shrug off the spreadin' stain.
Damaged, by John Shirley/Donald Roeser, BOC, Heaven Forbid 1998.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 19:15:46 +1100
From: "AB"
Subject: Zuchai Crystals (was: Re: Minor races and jump drive)
> This is actually true for me. I know anbout Lanthanum that is required for
ajump drive, but "Zuchai Crystals"?
Some canon references:
"Zuchai Crystals: These crystals form the raw material for a vital
focussing element in jump drives. They are both naturally occuring and
manufactured, but the natural type appear to have longer operating lives."
- - McWilliams, Bob. Leviathan, Traveller Adventure 4. Game Designers'
Workshop (Normal, Illinois: 1980)
"An emergency construction order from the Imperial Navy for jump drives
caught Quadratic Industries unprepared as the corporation had not yet taken
delivery on a shipment of vital zuchai crystal"
- - Miller, Marc W. "Crystals from Dinom." The Best of the Journal of the
Traveller's Aid Society. Volume 2. Game Designers' Workshop (Bloomington,
Illinois: 1981)
*The orginal would have appeared in one of journals 5-8.
The info in Paul Campbell's post of Mon, 13 Mar 2000 00:31:34 +0000 is from:
Fudgate, Joe D Sr, Gary L Thomas, William W Connors and Rob Caswell.
Starship Operator's Manual, Volume 1. Digest Group Publications (Boise,
Idaho: 1988)
Personally, I never liked the Starship Operator's Manual explanation of
zuchai crystals as a glorified capacitor. I like the idea of them as 'a
focussing element'; some sort of lenslike thing inside the jump governor
that power is pushed through prior to being distributed to the lanthanum
hull grid.
- -AB
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 01:58:01 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: Re Return of Cliff?
- --- Rupert Boleyn wrote:
>
>
> On 11 Mar 00, at 3:12, john hamilton wrote:
>
> > everything.It seems that's your problem.You simply
> > can't adapt to modern things,which is double funny
> in
> > a List about SF.
>
> I seem to have adapted to the etiquette required by
> the new medium
Well,not really.And even then,etiquette is only of
secondary relevance to content.
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 02:00:15 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
>
> Agreed. I just wish the standards on the rest of
> the list were much lower so I
> could unsub. But the rest of the list (posts not
> people) is actually very
> good. I just wish I didn't have to pay to download
> all this extra name
> calling. I live in britain. I pay for my internet.
> I pay for your words.
> Whether I read them or not.
Your ( that's "you are" for oldtimers) right.I
stop.Was could be said was said.
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 02:08:29 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
- --- Justice Hypercleats wrote:
> Via electronic medium on 3/8/00 7:53 AM,
> gridlore@pop.mindspring.com wrote:
>
> > Oh give it up. You fired
And made a hit.
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 11:10:50 +0100 (MET)
From: Tommy Grav
Subject: Re: Re Return of Cliff?
On Mon, 13 Mar 2000, john hamilton wrote:
>> I seem to have adapted to the etiquette required by
>> the new medium
>
>Well,not really.And even then,etiquette is only of
>secondary relevance to content.
And the content of your latest posts are????????
Tommy Grav
- -------------------------------------------------------------
tommy.grav@astro.uio.no http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/
Institute of Astrophysics, UiO, No
IMTU tn++t4+tg+ ru+ge++ !3i jt+au+st+ls hi++dr-so++zh-sy-sw++
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 02:17:41 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: Modern Traveller
- --- Kagehira@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 3/11/00 8:03:58 AM Pacific
> Standard Time,
> owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
> writes:
> Others have used Shadowrun rules in Traveller as
> the two are somewhat
> complentary. (if I got around to running a game
> again I'd be tempted to do
> something similar myself).
>
> Bryan
We for example use the CYBERPUNK 2020 chromebooks for
Cybertech.Several of my players have purchased some.If
there had been a Traveller "Chromebook" ,we would
probably bought several copies of it.Instead ,T4
published the Central Supply Catalog,which instead
listed Field Cooking Sets,obviously for GM's who
wished to run "Dungeons & Danish Chefs"
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 10:22:29 +0000
From: Phil Kitching
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:
>No, no...
>
>The cops are a joke. The *real* "serve & protect" bit is done by the
>local syndicate. You pay your "insurance" and anybody stealing from you
>will have the boys from the syndicate getting your stuff returned, and
>"explaining" to the miscreant the error of his ways.
>
>Done right, it should even be a moderately stable social system.
You could have them licence the local thieves and give them an annual quota.
That would allow citizens the choice of paying upfront for their apportioned
loss due to theft and "accidental" damage or having it happen at some random
time in the future.
Now, which popular author's universe does that remind you of?
Phil Kitching
- --
http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
"Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:44:31 +1000
From: "The Roc"
Subject: Re: John vs Clif vs Leroy...
- -----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
- ----- Original Message -----
From: James W. Lindsay
To:
Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2000 8:20 AM
Subject: Re: John vs Clif vs Leroy
> On Sat, 11 Mar 2000 08:30:35 -0800 (PST), David Clark >
> > Now that I've contributed FAQ material, I'd like to hear about Leroy.
>
> My memory is *terrible*, but one topic I do remember revolved around IG's
> "Emperor's Vehicles". Most of the list agreed that the stats that were
> included with each vehicle either made little sense, didn't jive with
*any*
> vehicle construction rules, or simply did not contain any real relative
> info. Leroy countered by basically saying that the "pictures" were all
> that were necessary and that if we would only use our imaginations, we
> would be able to provide the necessary missing data ourselves.
>
> I seem to recall making the point that Leroy would be the only person I
> know who would buy a book containing nothing but blank pages :)
>
>
I may be out of line here (this was well before my time here), but in the
"old days" I picked up a couple of sci-fi art books for the expressed reason
to put stats to them... I don't think that if you have that resource in
question (Emperor's Vehicles), that building the stat's yourself to make the
best of a bad thing isn't a bad idea? I hope Leroy did worse than that to
get the rep he seems to have??
- -- The Roc
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2065
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Traveller-digest Monday, March 13 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2066
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
TNE FF&S
Re: Re Return of Cliff?
Darkover for Traveller
jump induced psi
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: Jump Drives
RE: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
And while I'm at it...
Re: MM just publish background - ie. do we need T5?
How to go from Enlisted to Officer in 3 easy steps
Re: MM just publish background - ie. do we need T5?
Re: Chargen (long)
Re: John vs Clif vs Leroy...
Re: jump induced psi
Re: Modern Traveller
Re: Re Return of Cliff?
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Black War (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2050)
Role of the E-7+
RE: The Mafia in the Imperium
RE: The Mafia in the Imperium
Hiver & Ithklur Help
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 05:38:05 -0500
From: Walt Smith
Subject: TNE FF&S
I was at my old FLGS in Johnson City, NY last weekend, and they had
some TNE stuff in their clearance rack. One thing I remember was
a copy of the TNE Fire, Fusion and Steel Technical Architecture, marked
at $1.00.
Fat Cat Books (263 Main St, Johnson City, 607-797-9111),
I believe they will do mail order.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 05:59:34 -0500
From: Walt Smith
Subject: Re: Re Return of Cliff?
John Hamilton wrote:
>> I seem to have adapted to the etiquette required by
>> the new medium
>
>Well,not really.And even then,etiquette is only of
>secondary relevance to content.
Puts me in mind of one of Heinlein's Lazarus Long quotes...something
along the lines of, those who dismiss civility are throwing sand into gears
that don't work that well under the best of conditions. Grump all you want
about it, but if you come off as too boorish to pay attention to then no one
will give a damn about your content.
Oh, btw - being rude to others doesn't ennoble you or your "content",
it doesn't make you some kind of avant-garde rebel. It isn't about
conformity, it's about respect.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 03:06:19 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Darkover for Traveller
It would be interesting if somebody has already done
that,since,exept the matrix tech,everything fits the
rules.Exept:
Psionics:
Psionic rating can never be higher than social (Since
the Darkoverans are NPC's,that's not the problem)
All Psi's must have Telepathy.
Vice versa,since the D.are somewhat like the
Zho's,nobody without Psionics can have a SOC higher
than A.
TL:
Native TL is somewhat around 3(Correct me if I'm
wrong).
MATRIX:
A Matrix is a psionic amplifier.It grants extra Psi
points equal to it's rating.
Cost:Rating x Rating x 3000.
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Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 06:13:05 -0500
From: Walt Smith
Subject: jump induced psi
Ludowick wrote:
>Damn this is cool! How about psis with powerful special talents born
>to survivors of exposure to jump space? (As long as it doesn't turn
>their eyes silver). The whole thing plays on the mysterious nature of
>jump travel (don't look out the window too long), and would make a good
>seed for a dark, find the psi type detective adventure. Go for it.
Jump drives have been in use for millenia. If Engineers have been birthing
world-class psis for centuries on a regular basis, people would have
noticed by now...except for one thing.
If these powerful psis are like standard Traveller psis - lots of potential,
but nothing comes of it until they are trained at a Psionics Institute,
or have some unusual self-activation of their abilities - then there will
be so few of them activated that the connection won't be obvious.
Let's say a particular Psionics Institute has made the connection, and
starts arranging to get their hands on the teenage children of jumpspace
engineers. It's easy to orphan a child of starship crewmen, if you have
telekinetic clairvoyants in your employ. 3rd Officer Torland was usually
so careful, how could he forget to close that valve?
Now the institute has an "Uncle" show up, with sufficiently thorough
identification to get custody of the youth. And it just so happens that
the "Uncle" knows some people, who just want to test you for some
things, nothing special, just come this way...
Heaven help this Institute if it's powerful proteges ever find out what
the institute was willing to do to get them.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 06:14:11 -0500
From: Walt Smith
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Leonard Erickson wrote:
>The cops are a joke. The *real* "serve & protect" bit is done by the
>local syndicate. You pay your "insurance" and anybody stealing from you
>will have the boys from the syndicate getting your stuff returned, and
>"explaining" to the miscreant the error of his ways.
>
>Done right, it should even be a moderately stable social system.
Does the Imperium get a "Piece of the Action"?
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 06:29:44 -0500
From: Walt Smith
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Douglas Berry wrote:
>Lord Gradion, acting Head of Port Affairs, released a statement
>condemning the murder of Mssr. Pakino, and reiterating his commitment
>to cleaning up the corruption at the Port.
"Gradion, you amaze me. I tell you to quiet this down, and instead you
provide me with the executed body of the one person you were told to
treat with kid gloves. Oh, are you telling me that you're *not* in control
of these people? I see...that is most unfortunate, Lord Gradion. For you."
"Perhaps your successor will do better..."
This, of course, would be in line with the philosophy that the Imperium is
pretty much an organized crime syndicate itself, with the Megacorps as
associated familias. The crime syndicate on a member world crosses
the Imperial Will at their peril. Stay discreet, stay alive...get their attention,
and find out that those nice men from IMOJ don't need things like search
warrants or miranda warnings.
Lean on the Free Traders who have no connections, and do your homework
to make *sure* your targets are safe to hit...and even then, don't go too
far. Take the cargo, not the ship. Roll the drive hands, don't kill them.
That cliche scene where Al Capone and his boys are having dinner, and
Elliot Ness and his men come in to lean on em? Al laughs at them, he
knows they can't prove anything and he's protected by his "rights".
A similar scene between Don Zhunisti and his boys on Efate might
end with the Don and his boys in chains on an Imperial shuttle, with
the locals only hearing about it when a recording of the "trial" gets
delivered to them.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 03:58:01 -0800
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
Subject: Re: Jump Drives
Via electronic medium on 3/12/00 8:06 AM, goldendj@mail.pcisys.net wrote:
> At 09:59 pm 3/11/00 EST, you wrote:
>> << Ingo, I hate to break this to you, but as far as Jump Drive goes,
> the fix
>> was in from the start.
>>
>> Every culture that developed jump drive had a carefully-seeded set
> of
>> almost-working, easy to copy examples in their home system. >>
>>
>> This is not in keeping with my feelings on the matter. YMMV.
>>
>> Loren Wiseman
>> gdwgames@aol.com
>> lkw@io.com
>
> See, this is what I like about Traveller. One of the True Great Old
> Ones, the Progenitors, comes out to answer a question with a 'canon
> statement' ... that basically ends with " but whatever you like in
> YOUR game is fine."
>
> -- Cthulhu in 2000! Why settle for the lesser evils?
>
Yeah, that's nice, but I'd like to hear Loren's thoughts on the topic too.
BZA's Traveller--> http://www.sierratel.com/aum/BZAT/
BZA's E-Mail--> xrp@sierratel.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 12:04:50 -0000
From: Matt Bond
Subject: RE: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
> -----Original Message-----
> From: john hamilton [mailto:johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com]
> > Agreed. I just wish the standards on the rest of
> > the list were much lower so I
> > could unsub. But the rest of the list (posts not
> > people) is actually very
> > good. I just wish I didn't have to pay to download
> > all this extra name
> > calling. I live in britain. I pay for my internet.
> > I pay for your words.
> > Whether I read them or not.
>
> Your ( that's "you are" for oldtimers) right.I
> stop.Was could be said was said.
You're (that's "you are" for old-timers) right. I will stop. What could
be said, was said.
John,
I know that you feel that content, if understandable, is more important
than grammar. However, the role of grammar is to make things
understandable.
Please put spaces *after* commas and full-stops (periods to the Yanks
), and not before ( ie xxxx, xxxx and not xxxx,xxxx or xxxx ,xxxx).
Only use full caps if absolutely necessary. They are the equivalent of
shouting, and are hard to read for anything more than a couple of words.
Try spell-checking your emails before you send them. I'm not sure if
sending email via web site like Yahoo allows you to do this
automatically, but even so, try re-reading your text before sending.
Otherwise you could end up with text like this:
"WHYDONT pepole tak ANYTHING ISAY SERIOUSLY.ALL I am diong is postting a
few cummnts ,inorder to gett a butter undertandin goff the game i love
.JUST BECAUSE YOU DONT LIK THE WA YI RITE DONT TAKEIT OUT ON ME.ITS NOT
MY FOLT I WAS NOT TAWT GRAMMA AT SKOOL.I DIDNT REALISE THAT SPELLIGNA
MISTAKS WHERE SO ANNYING ,R THAT GRAMAR MAKESWORDS EASIER TO READ ."
instead of:
"Why don't people take anything I say seriously. All I am doing is
posting a few comments, in order to get a better understanding of the
game I love. Just because you don't like the way I write, don't take it
out on me. It's not *my* fault that I wasn't taught grammar at school. I
didn't realise that spelling mistakes were so annoying, or that grammar
makes words easier to read."
Both have the same 'content'. I leave it as an exercise for the reader
to decide which passage is the easier to understand.
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 07:28:24 -0500
From: "R.D. Elliott"
Subject: And while I'm at it...
...what exactly is happening with THUDDD anyhow? Are they still
being run?
Roderick Darroch Elliott
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 04:36:56 -0800
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
Subject: Re: MM just publish background - ie. do we need T5?
Via electronic medium on 3/12/00 9:25 PM, thegolem@mindless.com wrote:
> So, there's my idea; T5 should not be new rules, just more of what
> Traveller is personally for me; a great SF universe that I want more
> sourcebooks on! ;-)
>
> Peter Miller
Sounds like a fine idea to me, but I think MM is pretty set on releasing a
rule-set. I would like to see it in the vein of CT but with more skills,
careers etc. And perhaps a FF&S3 with all the alternative tech. But I think
your idea for a rule-set independent set of supplements is a great idea, and
could run side by side with rule books.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 08:27:49 -0500
From: "Chris Dixon"
Subject: How to go from Enlisted to Officer in 3 easy steps
>In MTU, I've thought of requiring all Marine Officers to have served
>one term as enlisted. And if they're not commissioned soon after that,
>someone realized they know what they're doing and its NCO for them.
>I suppose you could take away the possibility of commission after
>X terms. That might help to explain a lot of extremely competent
>but not socially connected personnel having long NCO careers.
>I know that the USMC has a cap on the age at which a civilian can
>enter the service (at least for officer ranks). For JAG, 33 is the
>cap (though you begin as a Captain) for Infantry its 30, and for
>Aviation its 28, IIRC.
>Is there a similar cap on the ability of an enlisted Marine to become
>a Mustang?
>bloo
AFIK you can do it like so,
1. Have every senior ranking officer and NCO above you get killed in
combat. Bam, corporal smith, you're K company commander,
congratulations.
If you show the mettle to lead in combat you can be field commissioned
as an officer. After the war is over they'll decide wether or not to
keep you as an officer.
2. You can get a degree and go through OCS - there are programs for
enlisted NCO's to get into the officer program. It's not easy but I've
met a few that have done it.
3. Go to one of the Service academies after high school you get out and
are commissioned in the service - or - go through and ROTC program at
any school then during your active servce you get augmented to Regular
service.
- -Chris
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 08:26:00 -0500
From: "Sword-Worlder"
Subject: Re: MM just publish background - ie. do we need T5?
The point of the rules set is to have a new game in publication. Any
"supplement" would have the limited audience of us. No new gamers, no
returning Traveller players, just we who are already players. Ask Andy Lily
what the numbers are at BITS. Or compare the number of supplements sold to
the number of rules sets sold in other versions of Traveller. You can't
move the game forward that way.
That still begs the question, though. Do we need T5 while GT is successful?
Maybe not. And maybe that is why you don't see much advance on that front.
Traveller is doing well, why rock the boat at this point?
DISCLAIMER: I am not a fan of the GT rules, I have playtested and prefer the
T5 rules that I have seen, but I don't see folks clamoring for a new
version. Most who mention it seem to hope that it is like their favorite
version. I am one of the few who wants something new, modern, better,
simple, modular and unique. It just does not seem to be the right time yet.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Colin Michael, WebDev
www.downport.com
The Traveller Domain
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Miller
> So, there's my idea; T5 should not be new rules, just more of what
> Traveller is personally for me; a great SF universe that I want more
> sourcebooks on! ;-)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 05:57:39
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Chargen (long)
At 01:18 PM 3/13/2000 +1300, you wrote:
>> > They're all the dead-wood that is too connected to dispose of, and too
>> > useless to send to the front to get shot.
>> At the staff levels with which I am most familiar (battalion and
>> brigade), staff sections (officers and NCOs) are essential to the
>> functioning of the unit. If commanders had no staff, they would spend so
>> much time on personnel and logistics issues alone that they would have no
>> time left to _command_.
>
>I was referring to them mostly. Also to those officers that get made
>"PR Officer", or somesuch due to connections, etc.
Even the so-called "deadwood" have vital jobs that have to be done right or
people die. Or don't get paid. Or fail to get their orders.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 06:07:52
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: John vs Clif vs Leroy...
At 08:44 PM 3/13/2000 +1000, you wrote:
>I may be out of line here (this was well before my time here), but in the
>"old days" I picked up a couple of sci-fi art books for the expressed reason
>to put stats to them... I don't think that if you have that resource in
>question (Emperor's Vehicles), that building the stat's yourself to make the
>best of a bad thing isn't a bad idea? I hope Leroy did worse than that to
>get the rep he seems to have??
The difference is that you bought that book *knowing* that you were going
to use it solely for inspiration for your own work. That's nothing, I think
we all do that.
"Emperor's Vehicles" advertised itself as a complete sourcebook of vehicles
for T4. Since "Emperor's Arsenal" was a well done collection of usable
firarms and related rules for Traveller, the expectation was that EV would
be the same.
Hardly. The vehicles didn't even have tech levels, lacked other vital
information, and only one in five had an illustration. The book was apiece
of crap.
I have no problems with books that act as a gateway for my design energies;
I love things like First In and FFS. But if you sell me a book and tell me
that I will find usuable vehicles ready to drop into my campaign, that had
better be what I find.
Leroy tried to argue that we were all "missing the point" by expecting a
useful product.
- --
Duugirashir Irebamenagiin gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
Inquisitor Maximus, Reformed Canon Church of Sylea
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 06:09:01
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: jump induced psi
At 06:13 AM 3/13/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>Let's say a particular Psionics Institute has made the connection, and
>starts arranging to get their hands on the teenage children of jumpspace
>engineers. It's easy to orphan a child of starship crewmen, if you have
>telekinetic clairvoyants in your employ. 3rd Officer Torland was usually
>so careful, how could he forget to close that valve?
>
>Now the institute has an "Uncle" show up, with sufficiently thorough
>identification to get custody of the youth. And it just so happens that
>the "Uncle" knows some people, who just want to test you for some
>things, nothing special, just come this way...
>
>Heaven help this Institute if it's powerful proteges ever find out what
>the institute was willing to do to get them.
Welcome to the Templar recruiting plan.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 06:21:29
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Modern Traveller
At 02:17 AM 3/13/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>We for example use the CYBERPUNK 2020 chromebooks for
>Cybertech.Several of my players have purchased some.If
>there had been a Traveller "Chromebook" ,we would
>probably bought several copies of it.Instead ,T4
>published the Central Supply Catalog,which instead
>listed Field Cooking Sets,obviously for GM's who
>wished to run "Dungeons & Danish Chefs"
"The Army marches on it's stomach." Napoleon.
I may be in the minority, but I've never seen the purpose of the "my gun is
bigger, I have more crap stuck in my head" school of cyberpunk. I did run a
Biotech/Voodoo game once that was a look of fun, but the stuff in the
Chromebooks just seems wrong to me. Oh, well.
Now, the field kitchen in CSC. A 96 page book, filled with some very
useful stuff for adventurers in all sorts of situations. To my mind, there
hasn't been a Traveller book this useful for everyday gear since either The
FCI Consumer Guide (FASA 1982) or the latest US Cavalry catalog.
Opening to a random page, I find things like the Entry Cutter-10 (portable
laser cutter designed to carve holes in starship hulls), Excavating tools,
a portable generator.. all sorts of nifty things!
The field kitchen is an item of Army surplus, and not out of place, given
the nature of the milieu 0 game. you might be leading a large archeological
expedition, and have to feed your diggers, for example. If nothing else,
it makes a nice flavor (NPI) piece in the book.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
Yfirmaður, Konunglegur Gramm Floti
Sérstakur Vitsmunir Þjónusta
Sameina Her: Rúm, Sverð Veröld Sambandsmyndun
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 06:27:17
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Re Return of Cliff?
At 01:58 AM 3/13/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>Well,not really.And even then,etiquette is only of
>secondary relevance to content.
Said the man as he walked up to the Giant to tell him he was ugly...
Etiquette is vital, since it makes people want to listen to you. It is very
easy to simply delete your messages unread, or to killfile you. Those
reading on digest can simply scroll on by.
so what do you accomplish? Apart from screaming into a void that doesn't
care, nothing. You might have excellent ideas about Traveller, but so far
all you've shown me is a tendency to be a prick, which colors my opinion of
every message I see of yours.
Go ahead and make snide remarks about me and this post. Call me "boy" if it
makes you feel better about yourself. But remember. Very few of us are
hanging on your words.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
TML Great Old One
Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse
Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 06:31:52
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
At 07:58 PM 3/12/2000 PST, you wrote:
>The cops are a joke. The *real* "serve & protect" bit is done by the
>local syndicate. You pay your "insurance" and anybody stealing from you
>will have the boys from the syndicate getting your stuff returned, and
>"explaining" to the miscreant the error of his ways.
New York City, 1870-1940 or so.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 06:35:27
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
At 01:50 AM 3/13/2000 +0000, you wrote:
>(gee I used the 'I' word 9 times, no 10 now. Oops said it again - er no I
>didn't - aaragh I just did it - and again I said it, Argghh!!)
At least you didn't say "Jehovah"
*THUD*
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 06:43:44
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
At 02:08 AM 3/13/2000 -0800, John Hamilton wrote:
>And made a hit.
Þú ert vera breytilegur heimskur manneskja, og ÉG feel mikill sársauki
fyrir þinn fátækur móðir fyrir líf með þú og þinn fíflaskapur fyrir svo
margir ár
There. Chock full of content! Can't read Icelandic? Not my problem, since I
posted content, and nothibng else matters!
Bit Mig!
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
Yfirmaður, Konunglegur Gramm Floti
Sérstakur Vitsmunir Þjónusta
Sameina Her: Rúm, Sverð Veröld Sambandsmyndun
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 06:46:56
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Black War (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2050)
At 06:30 PM 3/12/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>You and Bruce have pegged it IMO, but what is this "Black War Rebellion"?
In the later stages of the MT Rebellion setting, Lucan and Dulinor began to
use weapons of mass destruction on worlds that they couldn't hold, rather
than letting important facilities fall into the hands of the enemy.
It started with destroying starports, and escalated. Entire planetary
populations were wiped out, either by direct action, or by the fall of
civilization after the fleets left.
- --
Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is that I am now a
perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague here is rapidly running out of
limbs!" - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 09:56:55 -0500
From: "Chris Dixon"
Subject: Role of the E-7+
Phil Wrote:
>The problem I have is that Traveller doesn't seem to reflect this
>very well - with officers getting more skills and there not seeming
>to be any obvious skills for them - should they just get a mix of
>admin, tactics and leadership skills to add to their branch service
>skills?
I think the problem in CT is that promotion = skill roll. Book 4 & 5
seem to have fixed this although I haven't rolled up a character using
either one for some time. IIRC you can get a skilled senior NCO under
those rules.
I'm not sure what skills you consider an obvious officer skill. A good
NCO could easily be a better Leader than a brand new Officer, and a
staff NCO that's been doing battle plans for 20 years could easily have
a High Tactics skill.
Unless you are running a game where the players are still in the service
(I do once in a while as a diversion from the usual Mercenary/Merchant
game) it really doesn't matter because the character is out of the
Military when the game starts anyway.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 10:11:26 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: RE: The Mafia in the Imperium
Bill Rutherford writes:
>As long as Imperial laws weren't broken, why would they
>interfere? That being the case, a criminal organization wouldn't even be
>necessary beyond that part resident in the system(s) where the activity was
>illegal... The perfectly legal, Imperium-supporting, wealth-producing,
>good corporate citizen megacorp would simply have its special imports (or
>exports) division in charge of (locally illegal) corporate activities in
>system X...
I agree that the Imperium would almost always ignore local smuggling,
but there would still be advantages to interstellar criminal
syndicates. Of course, such syndicates might be completely (or
nearly) legit on one or more worlds.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 10:20:37 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: RE: The Mafia in the Imperium
Paul Campbell writes:
>Tell me what you think of this. World A produces a good: Wallaces Wonder
>Widgets. The only market for these Widgets is World B. World B has started
>producing Old Larry's Elementals which are compatible with WWW (ahem). The
>government of World B want's their own industry to flourish so give tax
breaks
>to Old Larry's producers. This allows Old Larry, and his substandard
>Elementals, to undercut the imported Widgets. World A has no other market to
>sell to.
>Would the Imperium turn a blind eye when World A starts smuggling Widgets
into
>World B. Or would they actually step in and insist that Wallace's and Old
>Larry's be allowed to compete on equal terms, in which case Wallace would win
>the greater market share with their superior product.
>This then raises opportunities for World B or Old Larry to arrange
sabotage at
>Wallaces production/shipping concerns.
IMTU the Imperium would take no action. Heck, the Imperium even tolerates
armed conflict between member worlds, as long as it doesn't get out of hand.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 09:29:12 -0600
From: Loren Wiseman
Subject: Hiver & Ithklur Help
Could some kind soul please check H & I and see what we say there about
Hiver currency?
E-mail me at both lkw@io.com and gdwgames@aol.com
Thanks!
Loren Wiseman
Traveller Line Manager
Traveller Guru-in-Residence
Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
http://jtas.sjgames.com/
SJ Games
LKW@IO.COM
(512) 447-7866 VOX
(512) 447-1144 FAX
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2066
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Traveller-digest Monday, March 13 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2067
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #2065
re: Modern Traveller
RE: The Mafia in the Imperium
Re: Yanks are coming
Re: This is it. Any time now.....
re: Modern Traveller
Re: Modern Traveller
RE: The Mafia in the Imperium
Re: This is it. Any time now.....
RE: The Mafia in the Imperium
Re: Failure company=failed game?
Review Opportunity
Re: Re Still going in the Late 3I
Re: GT ship creation
Re: Vs: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
Zuchai Crystals? (was:Re: Minor races and jump drive)
RE: Modern Traveller
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2050
Re: MM just publish background - ie. do we need T5?
Re: Vs: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
Re: MM just publish background - ie. do we need T5?
Emperor's Vehicles
Re: Zuchai Crystals? (was:Re: Minor races and jump drive)
Re: Modern Traveller
Re: MM just publish background - ie. do we need T5?
Re: Zuchai Crystals
Re: Minor races inventing jump drive
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 09:30:17 -0600
From: Donald McKinney
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #2065
The Classic Traveller Starships mailing list:
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- --
========================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, ConfigMgt 3x Team Lead dmckinne@amdocs.com =
= Amdocs Ltd., 2109 Fox Drive, Champaign, IL (217) 351-8250 =
= Winter War 28 Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 2-4, 2001 =
= winterwar@prairienet.org http://www.prairienet.org/winterwar/ =
========================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 10:28:09 -0500
From: "Smith, Walter"
Subject: re: Modern Traveller
john hamilton wrote:
>Instead ,T4 published the Central Supply Catalog,which instead
>listed Field Cooking Sets,obviously for GM's who wished to run
>"Dungeons & Danish Chefs"
Note that the same Chromebooks john was talking about include such
"extras" as a wet bar installed in a cyberleg, skin that plays
television commercials, roller skates that pop out of one's
cyberfeet...some parts of the Chromebook series start to read like
you've wandered into the _Toon Ace Catalog_ by mistake.
In the case of Cyberpunk, this oddball stuff fits because of the
"style is everything" genre. In Traveller, things like Field Cooking
Sets, Vetrinarian's Field Hospitals and detailed PLSS's fit because
having the details *available* has become a standard of the game.
Note that "available" does not equal "always used". But check any
MacGuyver episode to see whether it might be important sometime to know
what's in a standard Field Cooking set.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 07:43:28
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: RE: The Mafia in the Imperium
At 10:20 AM 3/13/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>IMTU the Imperium would take no action. Heck, the Imperium even
>tolerates armed conflict between member worlds, as long as it doesn't get
>out of hand.
Unless the member world complains, or the world can show that the
syndicates actions are causing irreparable harm.
That's the tricky part of being in OC. You have to be very diversified, and
make sure that nothing gets too onerous, or you will attract attention.
You want to restore the Widget trade, which you own a legitimate part of?
Take over the union at Larry's plant, and demand a ridiculous contract.
Demand a strike. Then you kill a local union firebrand, and make it look
like a clumsy hit. You've now got a real bad strike against Larry. You
don't even have to do anything more on that front. But let's really bury him.
Talk to his suppliers. Somebody is going to be open for business,
especially if they get offered a little piece of the pie. Suddenly, Larry
is being sued for non-payment of invoices.
Now the Don shows up, and offers to generously take this failing, strike
ridden business off poor Larry's hands, for 25% of the value. Now, instead
of holding a losing Widget trade, you've got a money laundering plant on
another world, and the widgets flow again!
- --
Duugirashir Irebamenagiin gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
Inquisitor Maximus, Reformed Canon Church of Sylea
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 07:23:35 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Yanks are coming
In mail you write:
> In a message dated 00-03-11 16:10:40 EST, you write:
>
> << > ROTFL
> > That's America! Open for new citizens-to-be, anytime, anywhere.
>
> Not really. In that part of the country, a farm may be the "Johnson
> place" to all the locals, even though the Johnsons sold it 70 years ago.
>
> After a century or so, they'll get around to calling it by the name of
> the "new" family... >>
>
> Or you will be given directions to "turn left at the barn" that burned down
> in in 1956. Tell me this doesn't happen in rural areas everywhere . . . not
> just in the USA.
And this makes it very hard to tell the difference between "passive
resistance" (baad directions) and normal behavior (cryptic directions)
when navigating in captured territory.
Which is why we developed GPS... :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 16:06:03 +0000
From: Andy Coombes
Subject: Re: This is it. Any time now.....
At 01:33 AM 11/03/2000 -0000, Derrick wrote:
>I've waited for 16 years for this....... Today (all things going well) I'll
>play my first game of Traveller. I will really get to play it. All this time
>I've been GM'ing the game I love (that isn't dead by the way!) and now
>I'm finally going to play it. (cue anti-climax!)
So how was it for you? I enjoyed it immensely having not played Traveller
for a
mere 10 years or so (but managed a bit of GM'ing in that time).
... The Hebden Bridge TML meet happened at the weekend, and went off rather
well IMHO. No doubt Nick will be providing a further report soon!
Thanks for organising it Nick!
Cheers,
AndyC
- ----
"Monsters don't eat fishcakes... They eat Elephants RAAA!"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 07:45:41
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: re: Modern Traveller
At 10:28 AM 3/13/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>In the case of Cyberpunk, this oddball stuff fits because of the
>"style is everything" genre. In Traveller, things like Field Cooking
>Sets, Vetrinarian's Field Hospitals and detailed PLSS's fit because
>having the details *available* has become a standard of the game.
>Note that "available" does not equal "always used". But check any
>MacGuyver episode to see whether it might be important sometime to know
>what's in a standard Field Cooking set.
Just watch any John Woo film. Kitchens, mobile or otherwise, are great
places to have fights!
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 11:17:10 -0500
From: "Terry Carlino"
Subject: Re: Modern Traveller
At 02:17 AM 3/13/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>We for example use the CYBERPUNK 2020 chromebooks for
>Cybertech.Several of my players have purchased some.If
>there had been a Traveller "Chromebook" ,we would
>probably bought several copies of it.Instead ,T4
>published the Central Supply Catalog,which instead
>listed Field Cooking Sets,obviously for GM's who
>wished to run "Dungeons & Danish Chefs"
Played a one shot once with a group of players I didn't really know at a
FLGS. I couldn't believe that some of them thought food and other survival
supplies shouldn't be counted against their encumbrance, and were surprised
that they lost Hit Points when they didn't have food or water for days of
game time. Seems their idea of roll play was to carry big guns around and
blast things while getting more money and bigger guns.
Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 11:20:51 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford
Subject: RE: The Mafia in the Imperium
At 10:11 AM 03/13/2000 -0500, Peez wrote:
>
> I agree that the Imperium would almost always ignore local smuggling,
> but there would still be advantages to interstellar criminal
> syndicates. Of course, such syndicates might be completely (or
> nearly) legit on one or more worlds.
...which is to say, the interstellar criminal organization would be an
interstellar business organization some of whose activities in some
locations would be legal and some of whose activities in some other
locations would be (considered by the unenlightened, protectionist,
corrupt, local system government) illegal. The balance between locally
legal and locally illegal activities would depend on the individual
megacorp (oops - I meant "organization") and the sorts of goods they deal
in. I could well imagine an enterprising business finding goods that
exploit Imperial loopholes (i.e., aren't explicitely illegal to the
Imperium) but that are illegal on virtually every world and specializing in
manufacture and trade of those goods... I can even imagine the bolder of
these organizations having names like "Corsair Import/Export LIC" and
slogans like "We deliver the goods no matter WHO tries to stop us"...
Bill Rutherford
worj@home.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 08:12:24
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: This is it. Any time now.....
At 04:06 PM 3/13/2000 +0000, you wrote:
>... The Hebden Bridge TML meet happened at the weekend, and went off rather
>well IMHO. No doubt Nick will be providing a further report soon!
Well, I understand Dom had a bang-up time! Let's give him a hand, because
he needs one! *snicker*
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"Some days, you just can't get rid of a bomb!"
-Adam West, as Batman
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 11:21:30 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: RE: The Mafia in the Imperium
Bill Rutherford wrote:
> I can even imagine the bolder of these organizations having names like
>"Corsair Import/Export LIC" and slogans like "We deliver the goods no
>matter WHO tries to stop us"...
There are old criminal syndicates, and there are bold criminal syndicates,
but there are very few old, bold criminal syndicates...
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 16:24:34 +0000
From: Andy Coombes
Subject: Re: Failure company=failed game?
>Advertising via poster and flyer in the game store itself? Maybe. Aside from
>informative nature of these ("When's the new ... coming in?"), they don't
>seem to have much reach to new players.
>
>Demo play and sponsored events at game stores? Much better, but harder to
>pull off with RPGs than with (say) CCGs and miniatures "war" games.
>
>Convention exposure? Sure, but only a small part of the gaming populace goes
>to conventions.
>
>Any more ideas?
>
Are "general" SF magazines targetted by RPG makers? (I don't actually read
any myself, so I don't know) - If not, this would seem to be one area that
would be worth considering - SF fans who don't play RPGs are probably the
easiest "new" chunk of market to concentrate on.
Of course the costs of advertising in such magazines could be prohibitive.
AndyC
- ----
"Monsters don't eat fishcakes... They eat Elephants RAAA!"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 16:33:57 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty"
Subject: Review Opportunity
As some/all/none of you may know, I have a new novel coming out in May.
I'm looking for two things:
1. Anyone with connections to useful websites, zines, newsgroups etc. If
anyone with such connections is willing, I can supply a review draft
(confidentially, of course).
2. Maybe 2-3 people to review the book for the TML.
Anyone responding to either is agreeing to:
1. Not circulate the MS to anyone else at all without the publisher's
permission
2. Actually produce a review, complete with publisher and purchasing
details, within 2-3 weeks.
Any takers?
Regards
MJD
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 08:31:43 -0800
From: "Jesse LaBranche"
Subject: Re: Re Still going in the Late 3I
> At 08:57 AM 3/12/2000 -0800, you wrote:
> >> IMTU: Harley-Davidson
> >Lol. I just got this really vivid impression of a huge
> >cat-guy kicked back on a hovercycle with a pair of
> >mirrored shades, leathers, and bandana over head.
> Actually, H-D does do some other things. Next time you fire up the
> lawn-mower, take a close look at the engine...
> Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
Yeah, I know- just couldn't get the image out of my mind
though.
Jesse.
vanquer@email.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 06:30:07 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: GT ship creation
At 16:43 12.03.00 EST, Qstor@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 3/12/00 4:38:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, thrash@io.com
>writes:
>
><< Ignore the dates: I am woefully far behind, but working as fast as I can.
>>>
>
>Waiting patiently for GT: Starships :)
Well, not _that_ patiently here...
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 06:34:10 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Vs: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
At 00:13 13.03.00 +0200, Jussi Kenkkilä wrote:
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Ingo Heinscher
>To:
>Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2000 9:22 AM
>Subject: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
>
>
>> So why should there be megacorps with names in languages nobody
>> understands?
>>
>These days a lot of large Finnish companies are changing their names from
simple finnish names to cool-sounding (?) nonsense or pseudo-latin names.
Examples from the top of my head are Leonia, Merita, Fortum. Maybe it's
someting as irrational as that with German or pseudo-german company names
in 3I.
Sounds reasonable, though one could still ask "Why German, not Latin or old
High Vilani?" (A similar question should be asked for "Hortalez et Cie", BTW.)
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 06:28:11 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Zuchai Crystals? (was:Re: Minor races and jump drive)
At 00:31 13.03.00 +0000, Paul Campbell wrote:
>On Sun, 12 Mar 2000, Ingo Heinscher wrote:
>> >(3) Zuchai Crystals? Never heard of them.
>>
>> This is actually true for me. I know anbout Lanthanum that is required for
>> a jump drive, but "Zuchai Crystals"?
>
>Zuchai Crystals hold the energy created (H + H = He) from the several tons
>hydrogen in your jump tanks. This energy is then released in a controlled
>manner to the lanthanum grid causing the tumble into jumpspace. They are
also
>called Jump Capacitors.
Hm. Any sources out there? Sounds like there something about jump drive
technology that I don't know yet...
>> >On some worlds or star systems Zuchai Crystals simply don't exist. As
they
>> >are a vital component in jump drive, no Zuchai Crystals means no drive.
>
>Zuchai Crystals are just the most commonly used - they aren't the only
choice.
>They are the most efficient however.
So probably j-2 isn't possible without them? Or would require not 20%ship
volume of H2, but more?
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 11:46:13 -0500
From: "Garcia, Abel"
Subject: RE: Modern Traveller
- -----Original Message-----
From: Terry Carlino
T4
>published the Central Supply Catalog,which instead
>listed Field Cooking Sets,obviously for GM's who
>wished to run "Dungeons & Danish Chefs"
Seems their idea of roll play was to carry big guns around and
blast things while getting more money and bigger guns.
Terry,
Well you need more money to buy that bigger field kitchen;)
Abel
"My expensive-stainless-fusion Webber is bigger than yours!"
(Boy does it light off *fast* now that I've hooked up the liquid oxygen
feed! BBQ Drakarans in five boys;)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 14:22:30 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2050
At 03:30 13.03.00, you wrote:
>You and Bruce have pegged it IMO, but what is this "Black War Rebellion"?
Oh, just part of MT´s rebellion setting:
When it became apparent to Lucan, that a quick victory was no longer
possible, he turned to black war, meaning deep penetration raids into enemy
territory, destroying all industrial capacity and starports on worlds
passed and wreaking much additional havoc as well. Worlds that were in
danger of falling into enemies hands were turned economically and
militarily worthless as well. In short, just good times for the citizens of
the Imperium ...
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 14:25:19 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Re: MM just publish background - ie. do we need T5?
At 06:25 13.03.00, you wrote:
>Do we really need T5?
Not me. At least not what we used to call YARS in the pre-T4 time:
Yet another rule system.
The T5 brand could be a good label for source material, though.
>So, my quesiton is, why doesn't MM just publish new source
>material? Perhaps Far Future Enterprises could commission authors to
>write new background material for Traveller; any ruleset. If you like
>TNE's rules but want to game in the Interstellar Wars Era, then all we
>need is a sourcebook, without a new rules system for that era. If the FFE
>materials used the BITS task system, then conversion from the published
>material to everyone's modified house system would be simple.
Amen!
>So, there's my idea; T5 should not be new rules, just more of what
>Traveller is personally for me; a great SF universe that I want more
>sourcebooks on! ;-)
Hallelujah!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 11:54:13 -0500
From: Peter Miller
Subject: Re: Vs: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
>
> >These days a lot of large Finnish companies are changing their names from
>simple finnish names to cool-sounding (?) nonsense or pseudo-latin names.
>Examples from the top of my head are Leonia, Merita, Fortum. Maybe it's
>someting as irrational as that with German or pseudo-german company names
>in 3I.
>
>Sounds reasonable, though one could still ask "Why German, not Latin or old
>High Vilani?" (A similar question should be asked for "Hortalez et Cie", BTW.)
>
>
>--
>For Iridium Throne and glory!
> ingo heinscher ;-)
>
>Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
>... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
We still today get corporations naming themselves in languages long dead,
if they think it adds some sort of historical basis to thier product. I
don't think its far fetched to think of companies from around the Solomani
Rim in the 3I looking to the ancient (that is our present) history of Earth
for names in order to advertise themselves as 'true human' companies.
Peter
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 14:39:43 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Re: MM just publish background - ie. do we need T5?
At 14:26 13.03.00, you wrote:
>The point of the rules set is to have a new game in publication. Any
>"supplement" would have the limited audience of us. No new gamers, no
>returning Traveller players, just we who are already players.
Which is true, too. I just don´t want to see morerule-books than supplements.
While the G:T books are nice (ok, very good), IMHO, most of them are what
was called "Complete ...´s Handbook" in AD&D. I want more books on sectors,
background, systems, etc than on character classes.
When T5 comes out (which is still kind of look forward to), it´d better
have an EXCELLENT basic book, followed by 2-3 supplements, not additional
rule books. Not Equipment lists (at least not at first) no gearhead books,
no additional design rules (for anything!), etc. Instead i want stuff,
fluff and buttery wholesomeness, err story and background.Those additional
rule-additions may come, but later. What i disliked most about T4, was that
that what i was looking forward to most (M:0) came out pretty late and with
miserable support (See: FS). This time around, give us THE BOOK, and then
give us material to play with, stuff that sends our imagination flying.
This is what i loved about the MT rulesset. It was rules, but 40% of it was
stuff as well (Sidebars, Imperial Encycloedia). It was fun to read and made
you want to play right away. And everything what followed was stuff, not
more rules! I think COACC and the referees manual were the only books that
had additional rules, and even those had about 50% story and background.
(One reason I still like the MT way best...)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 12:00:22 -0500
From: Mark Urbin
Subject: Emperor's Vehicles
I agree with Doug, as a usable source book, the book was worthless.
I really liked the artwork though. If I do see it in a deep discount bin,
I'd pick it up just for the artwork.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
urbin@bigfoot.com http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ Opinions Mine!
"Treeware" - Manuals and documentation.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 15:28:22 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Re: Zuchai Crystals? (was:Re: Minor races and jump drive)
At 06:28 13.03.00, you wrote:
>Hm. Any sources out there? Sounds like there something about jump drive
>technology that I don't know yet...
One of the best supplements on starships:
The DGP Starship Operator Manual, Vol 1
(no, there never was a volume 2)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 12:08:29 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: Modern Traveller
In a message dated 3/13/00 2:38:58 AM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
> ubject: Re: Modern Traveller
>
> - --- Kagehira@aol.com wrote:
> > In a message dated 3/11/00 8:03:58 AM Pacific
> > Standard Time,
> > owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
> > writes:
> > Others have used Shadowrun rules in Traveller as
> > the two are somewhat
> > complentary. (if I got around to running a game
> > again I'd be tempted to do
> > something similar myself).
> >
> > Bryan
>
> We for example use the CYBERPUNK 2020 chromebooks for
> Cybertech.Several of my players have purchased some.If
> there had been a Traveller "Chromebook" ,we would
> probably bought several copies of it.Instead ,T4
> published the Central Supply Catalog,which instead
> listed Field Cooking Sets,obviously for GM's who
> wished to run "Dungeons & Danish Chefs"
I have them too, but tend to prefer the SR material since it's more to my
flavor, plus matches CT rules with little work.
Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 17:39:48 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: MM just publish background - ie. do we need T5?
At 00:25 13.03.00 -0500, Peter Miller wrote:
[snip]
>Do we really need T5?
Well, not for me, I'm content with GT. But new background material? Always,
and hopefully lots of it.
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 18:09:18 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Zuchai Crystals
At 19:15 13.03.00 +1100, AB wrote:
>Personally, I never liked the Starship Operator's Manual explanation of
>zuchai crystals as a glorified capacitor. I like the idea of them as 'a
>focussing element'; some sort of lenslike thing inside the jump governor
>that power is pushed through prior to being distributed to the lanthanum
>hull grid.
This implies that starship operator's manual (another book that's OOP,
right? :( ) gives detailed information on zuchai crystals.
Does anyone know if similar "theoretical" information is being planned to
be included into GT: Starships?
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 17:57:46 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Minor races inventing jump drive
I am answering two postings here, Leonaerd Erickson's and Ludowick's:
At 10:11 12.03.00 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:
[snip]
>Also, it's *possible* for theories to explain observations well, but
>but mislead you. That is, they can tell you X is impossible, so you
>never try it. Only much later do you get your nose rubbed in something
>*else* that reveals your theory is crap.
>
>To the best of my knowledge this hasn't yet occured in a major way
>since the scientific method was invented. But it is *possible*. That's
>one of the reasons grad students sometimes base their thesis on
>experiments showing that X really *is* impossible.
Some people claim that this was true for relativity theory. Though I am not
sure about it.
>Failing to *improve* jump drive could be a similar situation. Slightly
>wrong theory points you in the wrong direction. Then somebody else
>(Terrans :-), who had to develop their *own* theory, has it just a bit
>different and manages to get a new level of jump.
So perhaps the Vilani had a wrong or inconmplete theory, too, which was
given to other races, and and (later) developed a better version of it,
allowing for j-2. And the Terrans had an even better theory, covering j-3
as well, after solving a few manufacturing problems over the decades.
That's probably the most promising approach, I'd say.
At 18:39 12.03.00 EST, Ludowick@aol.com wrote:
>I always thought that the Major Races who discovered jump drive did so
>mainly by accident. It was serendipity, not proof that they belonged to
>a superior class of species. Discovering jump tech resulted from
>investigating
>some old curiosity or anomoly that scientists and engineers of most races
>(and even most experts of the Major Races) had ignored and/or thought un-
>important & useless. The basic principle, once discovered, probably isn't
>too difficult to grasp, as many minor races in "canon" have either copied
>jump drives, or found the principle of jump by examining wreckage of crashed
>jump ships they have discovered.
Okay, so I say that reverse engineering a j-1 drive is quite easy, but a
soon as you have at least j-2, the tech is so complex that you can't even
think of understanding it without theoretical basics. One could perhaps
still clone the design, but one would need more than only a few working
prototypes to do that.
This would also explain why there is a difference of two TL's between
jump-1 and jump-2, while later jump numbers are reached each new TL.
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2067
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Traveller-digest Monday, March 13 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2068
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Modern Traveller
Re: And while I'm at it...
Re: Zuchai Crystals? (was:Re: Minor races and jump drive)
Re: random Gurps chargen
Re: Fwd: FF&S2 question
Re: Vs: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
Re: Delta Green in Traveller
Re: Things that make you go... Hummm!
Re: jump induced psi
Re: Minor races inventing jump drive
Re: Cthulhu, Yaskodray, and the Maya (was Re: Yaskodray)
Re: Best rules system
Re: Social Adaptation (Was: The Yanks are Coming)
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
RE: The Mafia in the Imperium
Re: Leroy/Secret Knowledge
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Imperial expansion to trailing
RE: Lo-tek mercenaries
Re: Yaskodray
Re: Darkover for Traveller
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 12:18:52 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: Modern Traveller
In a message dated 3/13/00 7:31:35 AM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
> may be in the minority, but I've never seen the purpose of the "my gun is
> bigger, I have more crap stuck in my head" school of cyberpunk. I did run a
> Biotech/Voodoo game once that was a look of fun, but the stuff in the
> Chromebooks just seems wrong to me. Oh, well.
But big guns are fun just ask your impie with the FGMP-15......... As for
cybertech and bioware, well they have their advantages and disadvantages, and
add another aspect just like psionics do.
> Now, the field kitchen in CSC. A 96 page book, filled with some very
> useful stuff for adventurers in all sorts of situations. To my mind, there
> hasn't been a Traveller book this useful for everyday gear since either The
> FCI Consumer Guide (FASA 1982) or the latest US Cavalry catalog.
I did forget in my last reply that the CSC was good at what it was supposed
to do, which was consolidate all previous (well most) Traveller equipment in
one book (btw, most of this is on the HIWG CD too with primtive search
software, provided by the old HIWG-UK).
> Opening to a random page, I find things like the Entry Cutter-10 (portable
> laser cutter designed to carve holes in starship hulls), Excavating tools,
> a portable generator.. all sorts of nifty things!
Which usually have been handier in most Traveller situations than the
cyberwear, IME.
Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 11:30:19 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: And while I'm at it...
"R.D. Elliott" wrote:
>
> ...what exactly is happening with THUDDD anyhow? Are they still
> being run?
>
> Roderick Darroch Elliott
THUDDD is still being run. However, the current THUDDD coordinator,
Jason Barnabas, is dealing with RealWorld [tm] time constraints at the
moment, and is currently off-list. If you wish, you can still enter
THUDDD 11 (modular cutter).
http://www.releasingthefire.com/thuddd/index.html
I posted the THUDDD 12 proposal a couple of weeks ago (a TL15 commerce
raider). I can forward this to any interested parties who didn't see
the original post.
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 18:21:45 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Zuchai Crystals? (was:Re: Minor races and jump drive)
At 15:28 12.03.00 +0100, Volker Greimann wrote:
>At 06:28 13.03.00, you wrote:
>
>>Hm. Any sources out there? Sounds like there something about jump drive
>>technology that I don't know yet...
>One of the best supplements on starships:
>The DGP Starship Operator Manual, Vol 1
>(no, there never was a volume 2)
Well, out of print is out of print. So let's (impatiently! ;) wait for GT
Starships.
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 09:30:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: random Gurps chargen
Ludowick@aol.com writes:
>
> Quick & Dirty Gurps random chargen:
>
> Gurps is a 3D system with average stats of 10 so roll the stats (STR, DEX,
> INT, HT, MOJO, I think) on 3D6 -- average 10.5. For skill points you can
> do Age (in years) times 2. Put some nasty stat deterioration with age so
> characters can choose to be young, tough, & unskilled, or old, crusty, &
> versatile/expert.
While GURPS is a 3d system with average stats of 10, that doesn't mean that
normal stats range from 3-18. Anything below 8 is brain-damaged, anything
above 14 is quite remarkable. If you want people who are sort of average
joes, use 2d6/2 + 7, rounding down. For PCs and other quality characters,
3d6/2 + 7 would be more appropriate.
GURPS has its own aging rules, which are not terribly nasty -- you can expect
to retain full abilities past 70 at high tech levels.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 09:15:16 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Fwd: FF&S2 question
In mail you write:
>>Dear Mr. Wiseman--
>>
>> I have a question regarding the equations in FF&S2.
>>Years ago when I studied algebra in high school, I
>>studied what it means for a number to have a power in
>>subscript next to it. Unfortunately, I've forgotten.
>>For example, the equation *V=ln(M sub-f / M
>>sub-tot)*3600/FC*FD (the equation appears on page 12
>>under "Realistic Thrust)--how do I handle the
>>subscript notation? I haven't the foggiest clue
>>anymore how to handle it and my scientific calculator
>>does not support such a function. What should I do?
>>Just chalk FF&S2 up as a loss and use BTRC's Vehicle
>>Design System to design vehicles in Traveller?
The subscripts are part of the variable name. That is, "M sub-f" is mass
of fuel, and "M sub-tot" is total mass of the vehicle. Two *seperate*
and distinct quantities. Not a single variable "M" operated on by
"sub-f" and "sub-tot".
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 10:42:38 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Vs: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
Not only Finnish companies...it's all the marketing rage to change your
company's name to something vaguely latinate. Witness HP's tranformation
into 'Agilent Technologies'. (Of course they'll tell you it's a
portmandeau word combining 'AGILe and itelliGENT', and we're supposed to
think that one of the largest corporation in America is headed back to
the garage.)
Lucent, Infiniti, Lexus, among others spring immediately to mind.
(not to mention truly _bad_ Japanese car names, like the Suzuki Aspire.
What it aspires to be a real car someday ? ;-)
Jussi Kenkkilä wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ingo Heinscher
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2000 9:22 AM
> Subject: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
>
> > So why should there be megacorps with names in languages nobody
> > understands?
> >
> These days a lot of large Finnish companies are changing their names from simple finnish names to cool-sounding (?) nonsense or pseudo-latin names. Examples from the top of my head are Leonia, Merita, Fortum. Maybe it's someting as irrational as that with German or pseudo-german company names in 3I.
>
> -J2K
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 06:56:21 +1300
From: pbroeder@wave.co.nz
Subject: Re: Delta Green in Traveller
From: Keith Johnson
Subject: Delta Green in Traveller (Re: Yaskodray)
>From: "Josh W. Spencer"
>Subject: Re: Yaskodray
>
>NOW I start to wonder...has anyone ever incorporated Call of Cthulhu
into
>Traveller, and what were the overall results?
While I have yet to add the Mythos into one of my Traveller sessions, it
shouldn't be difficult at all. Porting GURPS Cthulhupunk into GT
wouldn't
be any problem, and I have actually played a BRP version of Traveller.
http://www.tierzucht.uni-kiel.de/~sma/inf/chaosium/brp.html
It would seem to me that the easiest way to add the Mythos to a game is
via
jump space. Just run an Event Horizon-esque scenario. Still, I don't
see
any reason why traditional Call of Cthulhu scenarios couldn't be run in
Traveller.
Delta Green could be easily added into Traveller as well. Perhaps the
Mi-Go, in the guise of the Ancients, have contacted the Powers That Be
in
the Imperium and brokered a similar treaty as in Delta Green and Delta
Green: Countdown. Makes you wonder what the Cookbook would look like
for a
GTL12 culture, eh? :)
Hmmm... now that I think of it, it would be interesting to run a
scenario
where the Shan (the Insects from Shaggai) have controlled the Archduke
of
Ilelish and his close advisors to assassinate the Emperor, and the PC's
(who are the Imperial Naval Intelligence equivalent of Delta Green) find
out . . .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I started to do a Delta green/Traveller crossover but suffered a
player revolt when they discovered what I was planning.
It was for CT and I was simply going to us the CT combat rules for
Sanity. Same general to hit but a different setof modifiers and damage
worked out on INT + EDU. I'll post what I did if anyone's interested
(And if I can find it...) but it had a few problems that I hadn't worked
out. i.e you lose SAN faster than in CoC and I hadn't worked out any
rules for recovering SAN.
Jonathan
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 06:56:28 +1300
From: pbroeder@wave.co.nz
Subject: Re: Things that make you go... Hummm!
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Things that make you go...hummm!
On 03/12/00 at 08:23 AM, "Katharine Whitchurch"
said:
Basically, modern jump drives are monkey-copies of Ancient artificacts
up
>until you start hitting about TL16-17. And Bad Things keep happening to
>cultures that get to TL16-17 (eg Star Trigger, Black War Rebellion).
Ah! You've noticed that too! Makes you go...hummm? Doesn't it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
But, but,but - If that's true then doesn't that mean that Leroy was
right??
That the Rule of Man got up to TL16+ and then that bad karma appeared
and trashed everything??
And that the same bad Karma was responsible for the plague that killed
off the population of Sabmigys (Sabmiqys2117 X160056-H Ni
R 504 Im G3 V) in Antares??
And that this bad Karma is probably named 'Grandfather'
Jonathan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 10:06:20 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: jump induced psi
In mail you write:
> Ludowick wrote:
>>Damn this is cool! How about psis with powerful special talents born
>>to survivors of exposure to jump space? (As long as it doesn't turn
>>their eyes silver). The whole thing plays on the mysterious nature of
>>jump travel (don't look out the window too long), and would make a good
>>seed for a dark, find the psi type detective adventure. Go for it.
>
> Jump drives have been in use for millenia. If Engineers have been birthing
> world-class psis for centuries on a regular basis, people would have
> noticed by now...except for one thing.
>
> If these powerful psis are like standard Traveller psis - lots of potential,
> but nothing comes of it until they are trained at a Psionics Institute,
> or have some unusual self-activation of their abilities - then there will
> be so few of them activated that the connection won't be obvious.
>
> Let's say a particular Psionics Institute has made the connection, and
> starts arranging to get their hands on the teenage children of jumpspace
> engineers. It's easy to orphan a child of starship crewmen, if you have
> telekinetic clairvoyants in your employ. 3rd Officer Torland was usually
> so careful, how could he forget to close that valve?
>
> Now the institute has an "Uncle" show up, with sufficiently thorough
> identification to get custody of the youth. And it just so happens that
> the "Uncle" knows some people, who just want to test you for some
> things, nothing special, just come this way...
>
> Heaven help this Institute if it's powerful proteges ever find out what
> the institute was willing to do to get them.
Which is why it's *much* simpler to just offer scholarships to a prep
school, and later to college with the scholarships supposedly funded by
a bequest from some old spacer who made it rich, didn't have any kids,
but wanted a chance for the kids of *other* spacers to get a better
education than he did.
Heck, many spacers would *jump* at the chance. The kid gets a chance at
training the parents can't afford, and it cuts down on life support
costs for the ship, as well. And as long as the spacers in question do
the normal bit of having a more or less established area of operations,
visits and holidays are easy enough to arrange.
This doesn't give quite the same level of control of the kids, but it
avoids a lot of possible pitfalls. And it's likely *cheaper* (either
way they'd have to pay for the schooling, but this way they can phase
out the kids that don't test out as psis).
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 09:51:00 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Minor races inventing jump drive
In mail you write:
>
> Ingo inquires:
>
>
>> I was asking myself why the hundreds of minor races in OTU never
>> developed (or improved) the jump drive technology on their own.
>> Especially in the years(centuries!) before the Vilani Consolidation
>> wars, at least one or two races should have been able to invent
>> jump-2 or even j-3. Given the fact that most of these races were
>> initially _not_ under cultural influence by the tech-cautious
>> Vilani, they should have done a bit of their own research,
>> especially during the COnsolidation wars.
>>
>> In addition, there are some minor races (namely the Drakarans of
>> GT:AR1) who reached a relatively high TL but never had the idea to
>> build a jump drive, and who only reverse-engineered (which does not
>> necessarily mean understandig the physical principles behind the
>> design) jump drive technology from a ship from one of the Six Races.
>
> I always thought that the Major Races who discovered jump drive did
> so mainly by accident. It was serendipity, not proof that they
> belonged to a superior class of species. Discovering jump tech
> resulted from investigating some old curiosity or anomoly that
> scientists and engineers of most races (and even most experts of the
> Major Races) had ignored and/or thought un- important & useless. The
> basic principle, once discovered, probably isn't too difficult to
> grasp, as many minor races in "canon" have either copied jump drives,
> or found the principle of jump by examining wreckage of crashed jump
> ships they have discovered.
I'm reminded of a story from an old issue of Astounding (sometime in
the 1950s). First we have a letter from an alien bureacrat to a friend
describing the alien ships that popped out of nowhere made a close pass
at thei world and left, except for one which either had some sort of
malfunction or had the misfortune to dodge *into* the path of a
missile. (It's been years, I can't recall which).
He's talking about the alien bodies, and the amazing fact that the ship
was mostly inteact inspite of having been hit by a nuke or the like.
And bemoaning the damage to some systems, but noting that what can only
be the star drive seems to be intact. He notes that reseaerchers have
derived a theory already and are madly working on making a prototype
for testing.
The we read a letter from the commander of the alien force to a friend
of his. Seems the lost ship was being hauled along by one of the other
ships and was *intended* to be lost. the dead bodies where from some
servicemen whodied of natural causes and been kept in stasis. And the
star drive with the "obvious" theory is a copy of a famous dead end
that kept *humanity* scratching it's head over *why* it didn't work,
when it obviously should. He comments that as everbody learned in
schol, the only way to *disprove* that particular theory is with
readings taken from a XXX drive, which according to the theory of the
"dead end" drive *can't* possibly do *anything*... It'd taken a
complete outsider who hadn't studied the "obvious" theory to come up
with the XXX drive, and thus show what was wrong.
The whole purpose of "letting" the alien capture the ship was to give
them a dead end to chase for a century or so, in hopes that it'll teach
them a bit of humility before they reach the stars. Apparently they are
just a bit *too* aggressive and sure of their own superiority to make
good neighbors at the moment...
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 10:13:07 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Cthulhu, Yaskodray, and the Maya (was Re: Yaskodray)
In mail you write:
> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> Nah, assuming the Aztec's and May were on to something, the stars
>> will be right:
>>
>> Friday, December 21, 2012 AD
>>
>> The Julian day number is 2456283
>> The Mayan day is CAUAC (STORM)
>> The Mayan month is KANKIN (DOG OF THE UNDERWORLD)
>> Short count = 3 CAUAC 2 KANKIN
>> Long count = 12.19.19.17.19 3 CAUAC 2 KANKIN
>>
>> (Last day of the 13th baktun of the current Long Count)
>
> You seem to have a good referrence for the Mayan timekeeping methods.
> Where can I find it (preferrably online) ?
I started with the Calendar FAQ.
URL: http://www.tondering.dk/claus/calendar.html
I also have a program that does Mayan/Gregrorian/Julian Day Number
conversions (for a sort of horoscope of all things!) which is what I
copied that screen from. It's shareware, and I don't know if it's
available on a website. If you want a copy, drop me an email.
BTW, I did some more figuring, but alas, my system sent the message
before I could add this in:
While they don't have names for them I find that the next two "logical"
(to the mayans) time spans above the alautun are also of interest.
Remembering that the mayans used base 20:
20 alautuns = 460,800,000,000 days = approx. 1.3 billion years
400 alautuns = 9,216,000,000,000 days = approx. 25 billion years
The first takes us back to the time of the Cambrian explosion, when
suddenly, after having had life for over a billion years, life on earth
went multi-celluar and diversified like crazy.
The second is just about right for the current age of the universe,
according to some theories.
We are now *well* beyond co-incidence!
:-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 10:17:44 -0800
From: "Jesse LaBranche"
Subject: Re: Best rules system
Ingo, Chauncey- thanks for the suggestions.
With T5 coming out- is this supposed to have
its own rules system to it as well?
Later.
Jesse.
vanquer@email.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 10:20:20 -0800
From: "Jesse LaBranche"
Subject: Re: Social Adaptation (Was: The Yanks are Coming)
> > Now, I was curious as to what types of things you would put into YTU
> > paralelling things like this? Say the predominently Terran crew lands on
a
> > world that is mainly, Vargr what would some of the "cool" little things
that
> > the crew has to do to "adapt" be?
> Check travel books. Try to find ones that warn you about cultural
> differences. Even "minor" differences can be *really* jarring.
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
Thanks for the suggestion, I have quite a few ideas on this end. I was
asking what "YOU" meaning people on this list use, not asking for
references.
Good gaming.
Jesse.
vanquer@email.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 12:30:54 +0000
From: Paul Campbell
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
On Mon, 13 Mar 2000, Walt Smith wrote:
> Leonard Erickson wrote:
> >The cops are a joke. The *real* "serve & protect" bit is done by the
> >local syndicate. You pay your "insurance" and anybody stealing from you
> >will have the boys from the syndicate getting your stuff returned, and
> >"explaining" to the miscreant the error of his ways.
> >
> >Done right, it should even be a moderately stable social system.
>
> Does the Imperium get a "Piece of the Action"?
As long as the gangs pay their Imperial Taxes and don't hinder trade, the
Imperium will even refer to the gangs as Government.
- --
Paul Campbell
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 11:17:07
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: RE: The Mafia in the Imperium
At 11:21 AM 3/13/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>There are old criminal syndicates, and there are bold criminal syndicates,
>but there are very few old, bold criminal syndicates...
Very true. The Colombian Cocaine Cartelt will be a memory in forty years.
The Cosa Nostra will still be going strong.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 18:50:58 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: Leroy/Secret Knowledge
At 1:41 -0500 11/3/00, Loren wrote:
>Dom wrote:
><< Leroy was the guy who claimed secret knowledge of the initimate
>thoughts of all past and present GDW staff. >>
>He was (and is) not alone. Many people claim to have access to "reliable
>sources" or "inside sources" that convey complete and total fabrications
>about GDW's inner workings. For some reason, these people are reluctant to
>name their "inside sources" possibly out of a fear that I will have the
>sources assassinated : )
;-) So long as he wasn't a Zhodani agent in disguise?
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 19:05:06 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
At 11:02 -0500 11/3/00, john hamilton wrote:
>I'm not looking down to other people.This is reserved
>to snoby people who ,for example,think that a new
>member of the list has to wait to say his opinion
>about the games weaknesses.
Is this the same new member who has been on the list a year yet
doesn't recall Clif?
Or is it a hypothetical new member?
Just curious....
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 19:23:36 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: Imperial expansion to trailing
j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete) wrote:
> >> The Missouri Archive has a GIF map (by leroy?) showing the mains in
> >> known space.
> >It does? Can't seem to find it...
>Did anyone answer this question? I tried to watch for it but it may
>have been lost in all that "Traveller is Dead" crap.
Quite a lot that I remember seems not to be at the Archive anymore :-(
But I went to Leroy's site (shh! Don't tell anyone!) and got you this
URL which is the correct image.
http://www.cudenver.edu/~lguatney/IISS.html
Hope that it helps,
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:42:10 +1300
From: pbroeder@wave.co.nz
Subject: RE: Lo-tek mercenaries
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: Lo-tek mercenaries
> On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
> "They're using the Grand Ballroom for *what*!?"
>
> And real fun would be a contract to haul cavalry!
Reminds me of that Olaf Stapledon book (Last & First Men ?) where the
barbarian horde ride their horses out of antique "heirloom" spacecraft,
maintained by the tech-priests, to take the world.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
or Robert Cham Gilman's Rhada series, Especially the first two 'The
Warlock of Rhada' and 'The Rebel of Rhada'.
'Robert Cham Gilman' is a pen name for Alfred Coppel (I think). There's
a short story ('The Rebel of Valkyr') in Brian Alsiss's 'Galactic
Empires 1' which is almost exactly the same as 'The Rebel of Rhada'.
Jonathan.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 10:45:56 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Yaskodray
In mail you write:
> In-Reply-To:
>
> Josh,
>
>> NOW I start to wonder...has anyone ever incorporated Call of Cthulhu into
>> Traveller, and what were the overall results?
>
> Well, in a game I was in many years ago, one of the characters tried to
> summon a demon. And SUCCEEDED!
Ah yes, summoning a demon is "easy". It's *controlling him* after
you've summoned him that's hard!
To more or less quote some old gaming material:
"Summon Demon" is a 1st level spell.
"Control Demon" is a 9th level spell.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 11:06:48 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Darkover for Traveller
In mail you write:
> It would be interesting if somebody has already done
> that,since,exept the matrix tech,everything fits the
> rules.Exept:
>
> Psionics:
> Psionic rating can never be higher than social (Since
> the Darkoverans are NPC's,that's not the problem)
> All Psi's must have Telepathy.
> Vice versa,since the D.are somewhat like the
> Zho's,nobody without Psionics can have a SOC higher
> than A.
>
> TL:
> Native TL is somewhat around 3(Correct me if I'm
> wrong).
>
> MATRIX:
> A Matrix is a psionic amplifier.It grants extra Psi
> points equal to it's rating.
> Cost:Rating x Rating x 3000.
Matrixes are rated in "levels" in several of the books. Roughly "level"
= "number of people required to *safely* control the matrix".
Individual maxtrix stones (I'm *sure* one of the books had the name for
the stone, I just can't recall it) are *usually* less than level 1.
There are exceptions, such as Varzil's Ring, and the Shadow Matrix a
certain lady has embedded in her hand.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2068
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Traveller-digest Monday, March 13 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2069
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: New Zealand air farce
RE: Modern Traveller
Re: Leroy/Secret Knowledge
Re: Yaskoydray
Re: Darkover for Traveller
Re: The Role of the E-7+
Re: Some maps of interest
re: Minor races and jump driveHi
Re Delurking
re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: Yaskodray
Re: (silly) Top 16 reasons Traveller sucks
Re: Jump Drives
Re: Re Return of Cliff?
Re: This is it. Any time now.....
Re: John vs Clif vs Leroy...
re: Query re Metator
Re: Tokaji Azsu 6 petunias
Re Hebden Bridge.
Re: New Zealand air farce
re: The Mire Run
Re: Yaskodray
Re: THUDDD Help
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 11:13:55 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: New Zealand air farce
In mail you write:
> In spaceships, you have more options, you can say "X was never designed to
> be serviced in jump space, the designers didn't think anyone would be silly
> enough to try and service one of those in jump, _that's_ swhy the accces
> hatch is on the hull"
Something I can't really picture being done is having an access via a
panel *inside* an LH2 tank. The *only* way you could service that stuff
is to pump out the tank, flush any remaining "fumes", wait for the tank
lining to warm up to something reasonable (at LH2 temps, the tank would
"shrink" enough that the access couldn't open even if it *was* possible
for a suit to surbive the LH2). Then and only then can you access the
stuff behind the panel.
As I say, I can't see anyone doing this. But if they *were* that dumb,
can you imagine what the skipper and chief engineer are going to say
when they discover that the (failed) control module for the pumps to
*empty* that tank are behind that panel? :-)
The *is* a way around this. You pressurize the tank via the fill line.
But due to the tempo, there's only *one* gass that's still a gas at
that temp. Helium. Which ain't cheap. *Especially* when you consider
that one liter of helium at 20K is equivalent to 150 liters of helium
at 300 K. Look up the price of Helium, figure out how many STP
(Standard Temp & Pressure) m^3 of it you'll need to flush the tank. And
keep in mind that since it'll be "contaminated" with hydrogen, you'll
only be able to resell what you recover at maybe 1/10th of the price.
If that...
>> Lucas is a British company that is *notorious*, as they make the (very,
>> very *bad*) electrical systems for most British autos (or at least they
>> used to). Calling their systems "failure prone" is a *compliment*.
>
> Well, my experience of Lucas parts on Tiger Moths and early Moris Minor's is
> that they were extremely reliable, certainly better than the US
> "replacement" parts.
>
> They were easily serviceable, you could replace the carbon-pile on a Lucas
> regulator and recalibrate it in about fifteen minutes, without even removing
> it from the aircraft, which is more than could be said for the Ford version
> of the same part, which you had to throw away or spend hours digging the
> conformal coating off.
>
> I suspect you may be referrig to the 'new' Lucas, they were bought out by an
> Asian conglomerate in the late 70's marketing cheap asian product under the
> Lucas name.
Well, I am going by what a friend who used to be a professional car
mechanic, specializing in British cars says. And by the 70s, she was
pretty much out of that line of work (the shop burned down, and her
insurance didn't cover it)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 14:59:40 -0500
From: "Terry Carlino"
Subject: RE: Modern Traveller
Seems their idea of roll play was to carry big guns around and
>blast things while getting more money and bigger guns.
>
>Terry,
>Well you need more money to buy that bigger field kitchen;)
>Abel
>"My expensive-stainless-fusion Webber is bigger than yours!"
>(Boy does it light off *fast* now that I've hooked up the liquid oxygen
>feed! BBQ Drakarans in five boys;)
Ohhh, I'm dying here.
Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 12:03:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: Leroy/Secret Knowledge
>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
>Many people claim to have access to "reliable sources" or
>"inside sources" that convey complete and total fabrications
>about GDW's inner workings. For some reason, these people are
>reluctant to name their "inside sources" possibly out of a fear
>that I will have the sources assassinated : )
I'm glad that I'd already finished my tea before I opened the
TML.
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 12:07:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: Yaskoydray
>From: "Alan Bradley"
>Of course, Yaskoydray merely means Grandfather, so it might
>actually be a title rather than a proper name. Clearly his
>real name is [deleted]
I stand corrected on Yaskoydray, but please don't say that other
name so loudly.
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 12:04:01 -0800
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan"
Subject: Re: Darkover for Traveller
- -----Original Message-----
From: Leonard Erickson
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: Monday, March 13, 2000 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: Darkover for Traveller
>In mail you write:
>
>> It would be interesting if somebody has already done
>> that,since,exept the matrix tech,everything fits the
>> rules.Exept:
>>
I did this back in the early 80's. Let me see if I can dig up the rules.
>> Psionics:
>> Psionic rating can never be higher than social (Since
>> the Darkoverans are NPC's,that's not the problem)
Not really. There was a lot of bastardy on Darkover which led to people
with very high levels of psionics showing up in the wrong places, including
Terran orphanages. Of course some of this was due to the murders of the
parents and "disappearing" of the kids, but not all of it.
>> All Psi's must have Telepathy.
>> Vice versa,since the D.are somewhat like the
>> Zho's,nobody without Psionics can have a SOC higher than A.
>>
Also not true, there were some very unfortunate examples of head-blind
Comyn.
>> TL:
>> Native TL is somewhat around 3(Correct me if I'm
>> wrong).
>>
I'd hafta look that up. I hope I didn't get rid of this stuff.
>> MATRIX:
>> A Matrix is a psionic amplifier.It grants extra Psi
>> points equal to it's rating.
>> Cost:Rating x Rating x 3000.
>
>Matrixes are rated in "levels" in several of the books. Roughly "level" =
"number of people required to *safely* control the matrix".
>
I don't know-- didn't most people have second-level stones as personal
stones? A first level stone couldn't do much.
>Individual matrix stones (I'm *sure* one of the books had the name for the
stone, I just can't recall it) are *usually* less than level 1.
>
They were called "matrix crystals" but somewhere I have a casta dictionary a
fan wrote that has another word.
>There are exceptions, such as Varzil's Ring, and the Shadow Matrix a
certain lady has embedded in her hand.
>
yeah well... and the Sharra stone, and that sword...
Kiri Aradia Morgan
also known as Kierestelli Alanna Callista Syrtis d'Ardais
and later as Kierestelli n'ha Sionnavara
(I was a member of Friends of Darkover for ages... I ran the Stormhold
Council in West Virginia that was always pissing people off... ^_^)
PS: Try justifying how you got to Darkover when you're part Asian (or
Black, for that matter, but that wasn't my prob...). Brown eyes are "animal
eyes"... all the Darkovans were of Celtic descent. I got my Irish mama's
skin but not her eyes (or her guts... ugh, milk!)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God...
tiamat@tsoft.com
"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is
sacred somewhere. There's a deity out there who digs it. You can respect
and love your darkest side, disposing of only what is obsolete or
impractical. It's all about giving yourself permission."
-- Jack Darkhand
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 12:13:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: The Role of the E-7+
>From: "Douglas E. Berry"
>The Soviet Union put officers into many technical roles that
>are filled by enlisted/NCOs in Western forces. This caused them
>problems with such a top heavy rank structure. Since the
>technical roles were filled by officers, there was no room for
>the troops but in the most menial roles, which bred resentment.
U.S.N. petty officer: Why do they waste an officer running the
sonar?
Soviet lieutenant: Why do they trust an enlisted man with sonar
information?
- --paraphrased from Tom Clancy, The Hunt for Red October.
Do any of the major powers in any milieu run into these
situations? Comments on the Gazelle in Supplement 7, Traders
and Gunboats, suggest that during the Civil Wars there was an
ongoing fear of mutiny which afffected naval ship design. Any
other times and powers?
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 12:30:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: Some maps of interest
I've adjusted them by changing the color of non-imperial systems from blue
to red (and the lines from red to blue). In addition, the weight of TL
has been reduced -- TL 15 is worth 3x TL 12, 10x TL 9. I did not increase
the size of the map, though anyone with a graphics editor can do so easily
enough.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 12:38:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: re: Minor races and jump driveHi
>From: Ingo Heinscher
>I was asking myself why the hundreds of minor races in OTU
>never developed (or improved) the jump drive technology on
>their own.
I've always assumed that it's because the Ziru Sirka interfered
with them in various ways. That was probably one of the
functions of the Ziru Sirka's equivalent of the Scout Service:
assessing the likelihood of jump drive development on newly
discovered worlds and doing whatever is necessary to prevent it
until the Ziru Sirka can absorb those worlds, which are security
threats. It's one of IISS's dirty little secrets that it
continued the same assignment as the Third Imperium expanded.
Keeping the Ziru Sirkan scouts away from Terra while the Greys
taught us how to make a j-drive was an important part of the
Hiver manipulation that I've recently discussed.
The development of jump drive has come to support a kind of
racism in known space. That was an unintended byproduct of the
major powers' policy of interfering with minor power development
of the jump drive.
I don't recall whether canon supports my interpretation, but I'm
not aware of anything to the contrary.
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 16:37:36 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Delurking
Thomas Vickers put forth:
>Damn you evil Jack Daniel's supporters.
>Good men drink Wild Turkey and laugh at people like you.
>When will you ever learn ;)
I never said I drink the S**T! Only that they're still around IMTU.
I prefer Talsiker. Or Glenfiddich(Sp?) or Glenlevit.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 13:15:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
>From: "Robert Snyder"
My friend James Polk, who introduced me to Traveller way back in
1978 when we were in college together, did an advanced character
generation system for organized crime. I don't remember much
about it, unfortunately. I've lost track of James, but he would
contribute much to the list if he were a member.
>Is there anything Imperium-wide that could create an Imperium-
>spanning Mafia Organization? Such an organization would
>perhaps be stronger than any MegaCorporation and would perhaps
>be stronger than the Imperium itself.
I don't think that it would be stronger than a Megacorporation.
If it became that significant an economic player, it would
probably go legitimate, much as the Mafia in the United States
has turned to legitimate enterprises (from construction to
securities trading).
>The only item that is universally prohibited within the 3rd
>Imperium is Psionics. So, I would suggest that there could be
>an Imperium spanning Mafia organization and it would be focused
>on the supply of Psionics training/materials.
That's an interesting idea. Psionics is more a security issue
than an ordinary crime. Outside involvement would be extensive.
The Zhodani would probably be the actual controllers of a
psionic mafia, rather than just interested parties and
financiers.
>The Zhodane may use this organization as a type of intelligence
>organization (3rd column) within the 3rd Imperium.
You mean Fifth Column, which is rebel forces within an enemy's
border (so called because Napoleonic era armies usually marched
in four columns; the fifth was a secret weapon not just in the
enemy's rear but within its own forces).
>Could the political structure of the Imperium be closely tied
>to the mafia like it is in 20th/21st century Terra Italy ?
It doesn't sound consistent with canon, but there is certainly
organized crime in the Imperium at various levels. One
important distinction between the Imperium and USA/Italy related
to the development of the Mafia is that the USA is a country of
immigrants. The Mafia developed as a way for Italian immigrants
to protect each other and get ahead. It was exported back to
Italy, where it has really blossomed. (Please correct me if I
have the history wrong.)
Nothing like that has happened in the Imperium. When the
Terrans emigrated into the old Ziru Sirka, they came as
conquerors, not people fleeing poverty and corruption. They
didn't need to develop an underground criminal structure for
protection and advancement because they brought an army and a
navy with them and started out ahead of the natives. Maybe we
should be discussing a Vilani mafia.
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:21:32 GMT
From: "Boris Cibic"
Subject: Re: Yaskodray
I once ran a campaign in the Old Expanse with a bunch of character
exploring the Great Rift on a scoutship called: "ISS H.P. Lovecraft" their
adventures encompassed visiting the 77 wonders of Charted Space. Some of
these were of the weird fiction genre...one memorable one was in an
intelligent city (build by the Ancients)which viewed them as part of the
problem of waste disposal. The City was organic and long drained the planet
of its natural resources and sought to "feed itself" by luring unsuspecting
Spacers/travellers near.
In another, on an abandoned planet, I speculated in a race which long
burrowed underground and eventually transformed themselves into lifeforms
which existed in the electromagnetic spectrum. Giving the illusion, that PC
computers and equipment were haunted.
In another, I ran a campaign which due to a warp eclipse they entered
into an alternative TU where psionics was adhered to like magic. Technology
was the crude product of those without the "gift". Making the world,
receptive to those who wanted to practice magic.
And, naturally I ran a few abandoned space wrecks with something nasty
lurking inside a la Alien meets HPL. Cultist which worship an ancient
vessel. Monster from beyond. That type of thing.
There is a guy on the TML who is working on a Dark Imperium concept which
the Ancients are much darker than what is revealled thus far. Therefore, I
would think the Ancients along with their alien race contempories would be
more akin to the Great Old Ones...indeed, at one point in the Solomani Alien
Book it cites that the first real division in proto-Human society was to
make the Ancients Angels and the other half of humanity made them to be
Devils. As for me, I look at the design of the Zhodani combat armour and I
can't help think of the mythology emerging surounding the Whites or is the
Greys...why can't this be incorporated in as a deep collective racial
memory? We know that humans were used by the Ancients why not as Humans use
sheepdogs for herding other proto-humans to their new homes amongst the
stars. These ancient racial memories, come back as each race comes into
being an interstellar civilization...a while ago, people speculated why did
the Vilani expand coreward, perhaps it is merely a longing to come
home...the Zhodani were know were fooled by the Ancients to go Coreward but
similarly the Vargr want just to rejoin the pack.
So I can't see why Call of the Cthulhu & Delta Green could not be
incorporated into Traveller...in fact, I think that Delta Green is the
perfect mechanism...the cults amongst the stars would just have a hard time
justifying the End Time. So I think one would have to think of a larger
conspiracy...any ideas anyone?
______________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 13:25:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: (silly) Top 16 reasons Traveller sucks
>From: "Chris Seamans"
>C'mon, why do you think that the Zhodani wear turbans anyway?
>It's obviously to cover up their bizarre bony ridges.
No, I assumed that it was to cover up the two horn-like but
somewhat prehensile appendages on their foreheads.
- --Glenn
(still channelling H.P. Lovecraft, this time The Dream Quest of
Unknown Kadath)
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 16:33:54 -0500
From: Ethan Henry
Subject: Re: Jump Drives
GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
>> Every culture that developed jump drive had a carefully-seeded set of
>> almost-working, easy to copy examples in their home system. >>
>
> This is not in keeping with my feelings on the matter. YMMV.
Well, Loren, just because Grandfather has you in his pocket like a
pinched-off bit of the universe doesn't mean we like you any less...
It's just my luck that my all time favourite pet Traveller theory
came up when I was temporarily without email... *sigh*. The "they all
copied it" theory is, in some ways, a lot neater than the "really, it's
just a coincidence" theory. While it doesn't necessarily jive with what
you, the original authors (I think Marc feels the same way as you AFAIK)
might think, too bad! :)
It's an even better theory than the "The Hivers started the Frontier Wars"
theory.
Ethan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 16:42:57 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Re Return of Cliff?
From: john hamilton
> Well,not really.And even then,etiquette is only of
> secondary relevance to content.
That would only be true if you are typing your messages into thin air.
You're not. I assume that a sane and rational mind would want to post
messages on a mailing list to take part in some sort of discussion. It would
follow that you want the audience (i.e. the TML, or at least certain
segments of it) to read your posts. If you show little or no respect for
your audience, by, for example, breaching etiquette, nobody will pay any
attention to the content of your posts.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:45:31 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: This is it. Any time now.....
At 12:17 -0500 13/3/00, "Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
> >... The Hebden Bridge TML meet happened at the weekend, and went off rather
> >well IMHO. No doubt Nick will be providing a further report soon!
>
>Well, I understand Dom had a bang-up time! Let's give him a hand, because
>he needs one! *snicker*
Methinks Mr Berry refers to the ACQ incident when I picked up a
grenade to throw it back as a reaction task and promptly ran out of
Action Points, whilst the other players closed the Iris valve on the
section I was in.
Result?
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:36:55 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: John vs Clif vs Leroy...
At 5:36 -0500 13/3/00, "The Roc" wrote:
> I hope Leroy did worse than that to
>get the rep he seems to have??
I seem to remember a veiled threat to kill a TML member? or was that Clif?
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:27:01 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: re: Query re Metator
At 19:20 -0500 12/3/00, Hengabar Spofulam wrote:
> Some time ago, Rob Prior was working on a Mac system generation
>utility called Metator. Last I saw of it, it was still in alpha, but
>showing major signs of brilliance.
Rob's material is at http://www.bits.org.uk/ and linked off the
products pages and also at
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ (the non-shareware material).
> Does anybody know whether Rob has done any further work on Metator?
>Personally, I'm hoping for an answer along the lines of "Yes, and it's
>available as shareware for only X$"...
Not a lot of extra work, but there was a reasonable working version a
while ago. I believe Metator will eventually appear as a suite of
programs linked to GT and MT.
Rob is here so may answer himself (or email me off list)
Dom (Happy to Help the Famille)
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:18:32 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: Tokaji Azsu 6 petunias
At 16:52 -0500 12/3/00, Jens Rydholm wrote:
>Could be useful to download the whole thing in that case. You'd probably
>have to format the data in some way, though.
I have the MT Player's Library data from the Imperial Encyclopedia on
my Palm IIIx as a searchable file, and as a searchable pdf on my Mac.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:16:37 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re Hebden Bridge.
At 14:55 -0500 12/3/00, "Derrick Jones"
wrote:
>Well it came and it went. I really enjoyed my first ever Traveller
>playing session, met some great people and had an all round
>good time. (and drank some beer too!)
I also got to run ACQ - I hope that some of the people who played may
post on it.
>My thanks to the organisers for helping prove that Traveller, in
>whatever incarnation is genuinely alive and kicking (if not screaming)!
Nick Walker and Jae Campbell deserve commendations for the venue,
hosting and free copy of SGK 13 ;-)
A great weekend.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:11:53 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: New Zealand air farce
At 13:33 -0500 12/3/00, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>Lucas is a British company that is *notorious*, as they make the (very,
>very *bad*) electrical systems for most British autos (or at least they
>used to). Calling their systems "failure prone" is a *compliment*.
Used to is probably more accurate, and that's Lucas-Varity or
Varity-Lucas, and is now Anglo-American. I think that the HQ is still
in the UK and that the company is listed in the UK.
>ObTrav: The Imperium may have a few companies equally notorious for
>poor quality due to being the *only* supplier in a region (and thus
>able to have a "take it or leave it" attitude).
They often make Products for General use...
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:03:56 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: re: The Mire Run
At 9:09 -0500 12/3/00, "Katharine Whitchurch"
wrote:
>But I did figure out a great, great route ... the Glisten-Mire run.
>
>I hereby present ... a Brief Guide to the Glisten-Mire Route (yes, Jeff, you
>can put this on Freelance Traveller). It's part of my work-in-progress - the
>Pilots Guide to District 268.
Brilliant. Either submit it to SJG or BITS....
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:51 +0000 (GMT)
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Yaskodray
In-Reply-To: <00313.104556.9h2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Leonard,
> > Well, in a game I was in many years ago, one of the characters tried to
> > summon a demon. And SUCCEEDED!
>
> Ah yes, summoning a demon is "easy". It's *controlling him* after
> you've summoned him that's hard!
IIRC, the demon stepped out of the pentagram carved into the floor, grabbed
the PC by the throat, said "Don't **** with me, mortal!", and disappeared in
a cloud of smoke.
The ref was in a particularly strange mood that day...
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
"Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:52:46 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: THUDDD Help
At 3:54 -0500 12/3/00, Black ICE wrote:
>In the meantime, I do know that there is a CT ship design mailing list;
>I do not, however, know how to subscribe. I'm sure, though, that some
>kindly TMLer will point you in the right direction.
It's at www.egroups.com, and called ct-starships
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2069
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Traveller-digest Monday, March 13 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2070
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
re: ULTIMATE REASON TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re Starfire
Re: Jump Drives and Major Races
Re: Psionic/jump drives
The Sad Saga of an Obnoxiously Received Newbie
Re: Meg>corps in OTU
Re: Jump Drives and Major Races
Re: The Sad Saga of an Obnoxiously Received Newbie
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Apathy (was: re: ULTIMATE yaddayaddayadda)
Re: How to go from Enlisted to Officer in 3 easy steps
Re: Re Hebden Bridge.
Re: MM just publish background - ie. do we need T5?
Re: Best rules system
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 19:44:00 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: re: ULTIMATE REASON TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
At 16:09 -0500 11/3/00, Troy Bradley wrote:
>It was probably because of all the rudeness generated
>by all you jerks on here. Sheesh, and this is how you
>greet a new guy?
1. He's been on the list a year according to his own posts, so that
doesn't make him that new as far as I am concerned.
> What I was saying about Starfire,
>which in reality is NOT a roleplaying game but a
>strategic space combat game, is that the PLAYERS took
>it over, REWORKED it, and SAVED it. Stop your bitchin
>guys and get the BALLS and do something about it. They
>are a hell of alot of guys on this List(more than most
>others lists) who could help, but seeing the NASTY
>responses from so many of you, they will probably
>continue to lurk to avoid being mashed on. And you
>will have missed out on a fantastic opportunity to
>pool your resources and work together to build
>something great. Too bad......Troy
There are a lot of people on this list who are working to support the
game that John claimed was dead, producing books via SJ Games GURPS
Traveller, JTAS, Pyramid and BITS UK Limited's various lines. There
are a lot of people producing material which they give away on their
websites.
The biggest problem that faces the support of Traveller is a general
apathy as to doing anything. If I had a penny for every time I've
heard, 'if only you'd asked I could have helped' or 'I think x has
got this wrong', I'd be rich. My response should be 'If you feel that
badly if only you had been active enough to offer to contribute
yourself'.
There are writer's guidelines on both the BITS and SJ Games sites.
BITS' specifically asks for contributions. I haven't seen a flood of
offers of work (we have had some good ones) even though the
guidelines have been there for over six months.
I fully support people actively trying to promote Traveller by their
work in it, or by offering to help; I feel cynical about the reality
of a mass of people sitting there waiting to be asked to make it
right.
Dom (NOT SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF BITS UK Limited)
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 12:46:26 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Starfire
> Greatest? No. Oldest surviving? Pretty close. Best for
>Grand Strategic uses? Near Victory. Cheap to get into?
>A winner, no question (along with FT and BR). Good for
>dovetailing into an RPG? Eh.
The newest edition (The one by the Players) is about on par with SFB for
rules clarity and simplicity: In a word, it's neither.
I'll stick with the unrevised 3rd Ed. The 3ed-r is overly complex, full of
rules changes, and not clearly presented.
> That last point is going to be a big one on this list, since
>Traveller IS an RPG. I have fond memories of Starfire, but
>I don't usually think of it and Traveller together...
Well, I'll say this much for 3ed-r Starfire: It tells us exactly how many
people we need to crew a given ship...
And many people I've known have used Starfire in place of Bk2/HG. Most of
them also using 1st ed Starfire (Little Blue Books... I've got em!).
>GypsyComet
>TML Old One ("Great? Eh. Maybe.")
>
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 13:20:44 -0900
From: Peter Newman
Subject: Re: Jump Drives and Major Races
"Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" wrote
> goldendj@mail.pcisys.net wrote:
>
> > At 09:59 pm 3/11/00 EST, you wrote:
> >> << Ingo, I hate to break this to you, but as far as Jump Drive goes,
> > the fix was in from the start.
> >> Every culture that developed jump drive had a carefully-seeded set
> >> of almost-working, easy to copy examples in their home system. >>
> >> This is not in keeping with my feelings on the matter. YMMV.
> >> Loren Wiseman
> > See, this is what I like about Traveller. One of the True Great Old
> > Ones, the Progenitors, comes out to answer a question with a 'canon
> > statement' ... that basically ends with " but whatever you like in
> > YOUR game is fine."
What I noticed about Loren's statement was that he denied
that _every_ culture with jump drive had a seeded set of jump
drives - he did not deny that _any_ cultures might have found
seeded jump drives.
This leaves open the possibility that, say, all but one or two
of the "major" races found seeded jump drives.
The Hivers canonically started out with an inferior jump drive
so they are a good candidate to be a true major race. Note also
that the Hiver home world is beyond the usual area the Ancients
are known to have inhabited. These facts combined with Hivers
curiosity and scientific mindedness make them good candidates to
have invented jump drive on their own. It is possible, however,
that they later acquired the standard jump 1 drive from another
source.
Hivers = probable major race
Aslan stole the jump drive form humans [this was published in
DGP products but included an interview with Marc Miller confirming
that this was canonical.]
Aslan = minor race
Droyne canonically were given the jump drive by Grandfather.
Droyne = minor race
Humaniti, Vilani, Solomani, and Zhodani all developed in systems
with Ancient artifacts, possibly including jump drives.
Humaniti = possible minor race [especially the Vilani whose
culture discouraged innovation more than Solomani and Zhodani
cultures did.]
Vargr were created by the Ancients and are still being observed
by the Ancients [Adv. 12]. Their "home" system Lair was terraformed,
in the most literal sense of the word, by the Ancients. It is
likely the system contained Ancient artifacts.
Vargr = possible minor race
K'Kree apparently developed the jump drive on their own. Their
temperament and xenophobia makes them an unlikely target for
assistance by Grandfather - unless he wanted them to serve as
a check on the Hiver to help ensure that the Hiver didd not
start trying to change the Droyne.
K'Kree = probable major race
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 14:30:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: Psionic/jump drives
>From: "AB"
I like the idea of exposure to working jump drives or to jump
space itself to have some effect on latent psi abilities. It
gives rise to some dramatic potential: "I'm going to stick my
head out of the airlock and I'll penetrate the jump bubble for
exactly 0.0003 seconds. I've programmed the robot to pull me in
at that time." "But you'll be killed!" "No, I'll be enhanced,
improved, a superhuman! with the ability to see the future and
read minds!"
>On a related thread I was wondering what the legal status of a
>child born in jumpspace might be.
This is a complex question with no single answer. I suppose
that everybody knows my view by now:
Jumps from Imperial member to Imperial member: The law of the
destination governs in jump space to the extent not pre-empted
by Imperial law. Typical citizenship laws are: (1) birth within
the jurisdiction conveys citizenship; (2) birth to citizens of
that state conveys citizenship irrespective of their location;
(3) dual citizenship under (1) and (2); (4) citizenship only
conferred to persons born within state to citizens; etc.
Jumps from Imperial member to non-Imperial world: See treaty
between Imperium and non-member. In the absence of a treaty,
hire your lawyer to make your best argument.
Jumps from non-Imperial world to Imperial member: See treaty,
but Imperium will usually take the position that the law of the
destination governs.
Jumps from non-Imperial to non-Imperial: Too many possibilities
to discuss.
>I seem to recall that Imperial documents are issued by the
>government of the planet of birth; what potential legal
>problems might such an individual have?
Not in my Traveller universe. If you are a citizen of the
Imperium and want an Imperial citizenship credential, you have
to apply to the Imperial authorities for it (although the
Imperium may outsource that job to the member state's
government, in the case of advanced societies that the Imperium
trusts to do identity verification, etc.).
So each member world provides whatever citizenship documentation
it sees fit. This may mean none. You don't need Imperial
papers to travel within the Imperium, but they are sometimes
very helpful.
>What if an unscrupulous Captain wanted to charge a passenger
>for an extra passage for her newborn child, threatening her
>with charges of harbouring a stowaway if she refused?
Imperial regulations govern this issue. The ship owner is not
entitled to compensation for the added burden on life support
systems of having an infant aboard. The Imperial regulations on
aiding and abetting a stowaway specifically exclude pregnancy.
Bringing false charges is a serious offense; so is extortion
under color of Imperial authority (remember, even a merchant
ship's captain is commissioned by the Imperium, which governs
interstellar trade).
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 17:33:14 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: The Sad Saga of an Obnoxiously Received Newbie
From: SD Mooney
> At 16:09 -0500 11/3/00, Troy Bradley wrote:
> >It was probably because of all the rudeness generated
> >by all you jerks on here. Sheesh, and this is how you
> >greet a new guy?
>
> 1. He's been on the list a year according to his own posts, so that
> doesn't make him that new as far as I am concerned.
Actually, Dom, it would appear that Troy wasn't talking about John, but
about himself. In the "Traveller Went Down" thread people were basically
saying to John Hamilton "put up or shut up", that he should give advice on
what should be done with Traveller.
Troy added his own comment to the thread: some folks bought the rights to
Starfire and cut out a lot of the crufty bits and, in Troy's opinion, it's
now a fine game, and he seemed to imply that something like that might work
with Traveller.
I honestly can't understand how anyone would see this as insulting. This is,
however, the Traveller Mailing List, so I shouldn't be surprised when people
don't bother to read other peoples' posts and just blabber on about any damn
thing they want to blabber on about.
Mr. Berry responded to Troy's post and implied that Troy was John Hamilton
in disguise, claiming that the two of them were saying the same thing. I
think Doug was out of line on that, as John and Troy were miles apart. Troy
was simply offering helpful, if somewhat naive advice based on what he
personally saw as a success story. I honestly have my doubts as to whether
or not Doug actually read the message in the first place.
Mr. Henry responded with the thoughtful and insightful comment, "If you're
on crack." I'm not sure exactly what part of Troy's message he was referring
to with that.
Mr. Garcia responded in the same thread and actually put words into Troy's
mouth and went so far as to toss an unwarranted personal attack in his
direction. He proved that he himself had not read the post in question.
To his credit, Walter Smith responded constructively and asked Troy how he
would personally streamline Classic Traveller.
Now, that's the situation. *Troy* himself was the new poster referred to in
the message you responded to. I've said it already, and I'll say it again:
the guy got a shameful reception here on the list. It's that simple.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 14:33:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: Meg>corps in OTU
>From: "Rupert Boleyn"
>Subject: Re: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce
)
>Why do we have mottos in Latin?
In keeping with the Fiddler on the Roof theme, I'll tell you: I
don't know. But it's a tradition!
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 14:44:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: Jump Drives and Major Races
Peter Newman writes:
> Droyne canonically were given the jump drive by Grandfather.
>
> Droyne = minor race
That depends on whether Grandfather counts as Droyne or not.
>
> Humaniti, Vilani, Solomani, and Zhodani all developed in systems
> with Ancient artifacts, possibly including jump drives.
Though it is worth noting in the case of terra that (a) the jump drive was
developed in the asteroid belt, nowhere near known ruins, and (b) the first
jump drive was notably inferior, so it obviously wasn't a complete copy
(a complete copy would not have been inferior) though it could have been
reverse-engineered.
>
> Humaniti = possible minor race [especially the Vilani whose
> culture discouraged innovation more than Solomani and Zhodani
> cultures did.]
Actually, this is an interesting alternate explanation for the static nature
of the Imperium. The Vilani may well have been fundamentally less changeable
than Terrans, but have had some other form of reproductive advantage, thus
resulting in their genes predominating.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 17:05:49 -0600
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)
Subject: Re: The Sad Saga of an Obnoxiously Received Newbie
I apologize for the impreciseness of my comment.
My comment was directed at the idea that Starfire was/is the greatest space
combat game ever. If such hyperbole isn't worthy of a drug test then few
things are.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Chris Seamans
Subject: The Sad Saga of an Obnoxiously Received Newbie
>From: SD Mooney
>
>Actually, Dom, it would appear that Troy wasn't talking about John, but
>about himself. In the "Traveller Went Down" thread people were basically
>saying to John Hamilton "put up or shut up", that he should give advice on
>what should be done with Traveller.
>
>Troy added his own comment to the thread: some folks bought the rights to
>Starfire and cut out a lot of the crufty bits and, in Troy's opinion, it's
>now a fine game, and he seemed to imply that something like that might work
>with Traveller.
>
>I honestly can't understand how anyone would see this as insulting. This
is,
>however, the Traveller Mailing List, so I shouldn't be surprised when
people
>don't bother to read other peoples' posts and just blabber on about any
damn
>thing they want to blabber on about.
>
>Mr. Henry responded with the thoughtful and insightful comment, "If you're
>on crack." I'm not sure exactly what part of Troy's message he was
referring
>to with that.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 14:00:55 -0900
From: Peter Newman
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Glenn Goffin wrote
> One
> important distinction between the Imperium and USA/Italy related
> to the development of the Mafia is that the USA is a country of
> immigrants. The Mafia developed as a way for Italian immigrants
> to protect each other and get ahead. It was exported back to
> Italy, where it has really blossomed. (Please correct me if I
> have the history wrong.)
This may describe the last 125 years or so of Mafia history
accurately but the Mafia started as a "patriotic" nationalist
group that opposed foreign domination. [Similar in some ways
to the formation of the Klan in the Ante-bellum South - assuming
you consider the Confederacy and the Union as being separate
in the way that Italy (not that there was one Italy back then)
and France were.]
Mafia is supposedly an acroymn for
Merte alla Francia, Italia allegra
which roughly translated to
Death to France, Italy screams!
> Nothing like that has happened in the Imperium. When the
> Terrans emigrated into the old Ziru Sirka, they came as
> conquerors, not people fleeing poverty and corruption. They
> didn't need to develop an underground criminal structure for
> protection and advancement because they brought an army and a
> navy with them and started out ahead of the natives. Maybe we
> should be discussing a Vilani mafia.
Remember how thinly spread the Terran's were. Do you really think
that the Rule of Man was, or even cared to, able to distinguish
between a "good" Solomani Ensign ruling her planet with a firm
hand to keep the Vilani down and a "bad" Solomani Ensign who
was running her entire planet as Capo e Capo of a planet wide
protection racket above an ethnically Vilani crime family who
had adopted Solomani mob culture to serve as her underlings?
Imagine a scenario like this:
The Vilani Empire has just collapsed.
A Solomani Ensign has just landed on a Vilani planet. She
"invites" the planetary leaders to come out to the starport
and meet her. "When they get their she's wearing a nice dress
uniform and sitting at a table. Behind her [and above her so
that they can safely fire over her head] are a squad or so of
troopers in Battledress or Combat Armor with their weapons
pointed at the Vilani leaders.
"Nice planet youse guys got here - it sure would be a shame
if'n something ud happen to it wouldn't it?"
"You've gotta a nice planet like this somebody might come
along and try an take it." [Ensign pauses and looks up at
her nuclear armed spaceship behind her - the Vilani she's
talking to hear the ships meson spinal mount warm up and
fire, invisibly, right through the whole party. A block of
buildings on the edge of the starport vanishes.
"What you gotta do, see, is have me and the boys on the ship
protect you from guys like that - all it'll cost ya is a
very reasonable fee for our protective services."
"Any of youse guys got a problem wit dat?"
[We hear the sound of the plasma weapons the troops are carrying
warm up.]
Do you really think that the Vilani, or their successors, or
_their_ successors aren't going to accept her protection racket
post haste?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 15:03:14
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Apathy (was: re: ULTIMATE yaddayaddayadda)
At 07:44 PM 3/13/2000 +0000, Dom wrote:
>I fully support people actively trying to promote Traveller by their
>work in it, or by offering to help; I feel cynical about the reality
>of a mass of people sitting there waiting to be asked to make it
>right.
Damn right, and well said!
Folks, I have in hand my first published game design. It did not happen
because I waited for it to happen, it happened because I put my ideas out
there, James Lindsay pounded me on the head to show me where I was wrong,
and Andy Lilly published the thing. So now I can look up my name in the
Library of Congress. I have an ISBN number. That may not mean much to you,
but for me it's quite important. Because someday, somewhere, I'm going to
confuse the hell out of a grad student looking up something.
So think of an idea and do something! The whole "Mafia in Traveller" thread
has me preparing an idea for Andy about a "101 Mobs" book for BITS. Not the
greatest writer? Find somebody on the TML who wants to work with you. I've
never met James, wouldn't know him if he punched me in the face, but we
managed to write what I think is a very nice set of rules over the Internet.
Here on the TML we like to talk about the "Black Hole of Quality;" the
mysterious force that sucks well-developed and useful ideas directly onto
hard drives. I have over two megs of old messages that I saved because they
impressed me as being useful. The talent is here. What we do with it is up
to us.
We can't re-write Traveller. Marc is doing that, and has been kind enough
to solicit our opinions. We can't resurrect old versions of the game as a
universal panacea for all Traveller fans. What we can do is keep building
on the base that Traveller has.
To go back to our "Dune" discussions of last week, "Apathy is the
Game-killer". Too many good games and companies have gone down the tubes
because the fans just expected to be fed an ever-increasing diet of quality
materials. Doesn't work that way anymore kids.
To shake the apathy, I have a suggestion: The TML 2000 Landgrab.
Anyone interested takes a world in the Spinward Marches and details the
hell out of it. First In would be preferred, but any of the earlier systems
will be acceptable. climate, Culture, Ecosystems, Government, odd laws,
religions, notable events for 1100-1120, linguistic notes.. everything to
make each world a living experience.
Unlike the THUDDD, these would be cooperative endeavors. If I need help
with determining if a certain set of laws is feasible, I can call upon the
assembled brains of the TML for help; if somebody has a question about how
an army would be organized, I'd probably be able to answer. This would
stimulate the already fascinating conversations we have here.
As we finish, we post our worlds either here or on a web site (to be named
later) for everyone's use. Then you take another world. Doesn't matter how
long it takes, but the end result should be a living planet.
I dibs Regina/Heya (2402)
Well, what do you think, Sirs?
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
TML Great Old One
Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse
Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 18:16:20 -0500
From: Steve Daniels
Subject: Re: How to go from Enlisted to Officer in 3 easy steps
Chris Dixon wrote:
> Bloo said:
> >Is there a similar cap on the ability of an enlisted Marine to become
> >a Mustang?
>
> >bloo
>
> AFIK you can do it like so,
>
> 1. Have every senior ranking officer and NCO above you get killed in
> combat. Bam, corporal smith, you're K company commander,
> congratulations.
Not really talking about field promotions. Though, I might use
earning a medal in adv. chargen as a +DM for commission,
to reflect that a temporary field commission was made permament.
I think that stuff ought to be role-played, but I'm lazy and like to
keep my players in the military if I can, at least to start out.
> 2. You can get a degree and go through OCS - there are programs for
> enlisted NCO's to get into the officer program. It's not easy but I've
> met a few that have done it.
Surely there is an age cap on OCS, isn't there? That is really the thing
I'm looking for.
> 3. Go to one of the Service academies after high school you get out and
> are commissioned in the service - or - go through and ROTC program at
> any school then during your active servce you get augmented to Regular
> service.
I almost went to the Naval Academy. IIRC, the age cap was 28 for enlisted
Navy and Marine Corps personnel, and 20 for direct enrollees.
How about this for a limiting commissions:
Commission roll is X+, DM -1 per term served, (+ normal DMs).
No commission available after age 30.
Comments?
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 23:15:34 -0000
From: "Matthew Bond"
Subject: Re: Re Hebden Bridge.
- -----Original Message-----
From: SD Mooney
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: 13 March 2000 21:55
Subject: Re Hebden Bridge.
>At 14:55 -0500 12/3/00, "Derrick Jones"
> wrote:
>>Well it came and it went. I really enjoyed my first ever Traveller
>>playing session, met some great people and had an all round
>>good time. (and drank some beer too!)
>
>I also got to run ACQ - I hope that some of the people who played may
>post on it.
I played, and posted my thoughts from work just before leaving this evening.
As per bl**dy usual our server doesn't seem to have sent it yet . It'll
probably turn up tomorrow. I'll let you all sit on tenterhooks 'till then...
>>My thanks to the organisers for helping prove that Traveller, in
>>whatever incarnation is genuinely alive and kicking (if not screaming)!
>
>Nick Walker and Jae Campbell deserve commendations for the venue,
>hosting and free copy of SGK 13 ;-)
Too true, it was an excellent venue. My only complaint was that Hebden is
too bl**dy hilly. Still, if any of the SF mob come-a-visiting for next years
event [and there simply *has* to be another...] they'll no doubt find it
too flat
>A great weekend.
Indeed. Good gaming, good company, good weather, and most important... good
beer till 2.30am!
(Stay at the Nut Clough House Hotel next time guys. Friendly customers and
Landlord, good beer, sensible hours, good food, reasonable rates,
comfortable rooms. 6 rooms [double/twin] available)
>Dom
Matt
Matthew Bond
mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk
www.akira.swinternet.co.uk/strom.html
- --------------------------------------------------------------
"To strike a man who insults you is one thing...
...To run him through with a sword is quite another!"
- --------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 18:16:05 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: MM just publish background - ie. do we need T5?
From: Peter Miller
> Do we really need T5?
>
> With all of the Traveller editions out there; with all of the different
> house rules, do we need another rules system? I mean, when it
> comes out we are not going to all uniformly drop our own precisely
> compiled system of Traveller and start playing this new version
> exclusively.
Personally, I think that T5 is a damned good idea. I will certainly buy it
when it comes out. As far as rules go I'm quite fond of CT, and I'm looking
for a certain "feel" which will be similar to CT. However, I don't play CT
because it's missing a number of things which I like.
T4 was close to this, but didn't quite hit the nail on the head. I don't
like to tinker with rules, however, because playtesting can be somewhat
difficult. I have the time to come up with new rules, but I don't have the
time to make sure that they work the way I want them to.
I like GURPS: Traveller, but there are certain things that I don't like
about the GURPS system. I think that it's a very good system, but after a
few months of thought and experimentation, it's not what I want to use for
my future Traveller campaigns.
In theory a professionally produced product should have playtesting behind
it when it's released.
> CT, MT and T4 carry the banner of 'classic' Traveller, while TNE hits
> those who liked the system (I can't say much more for it, because I
> was never a fan) and GURPS is there for those new to Traveller but
> not to RPGs, and for those of us who like to run the same group of
> players through hell by shoving them into superhero campaigns,
> fantasy, science fiction, etc. without a change is rules.
You've just answered your own question. There is no version of Traveller
currently in print which a newbie can just pick up and play.
> So, my quesiton is, why doesn't MM just publish new source
> material?
For the most part, I personally wouldn't buy it. I don't like the Third
Imperium as a setting, and I'll likely never use it in its original form
when I run a campaign. The majority of my own campaign world is of my own
invention.
> So, there's my idea; T5 should not be new rules, just more of what
> Traveller is personally for me; a great SF universe that I want more
> sourcebooks on! ;-)
Your view seems to be shared by many. Unfortunately, this would kill the joy
of Traveller for me. Personally, I think that at least the main rulebook
should be as light as possible when it comes to background (but I feel this
way about every RPG, the Little Black Books and the larger Traveller Book
have the perfect amount of background for rule sets).
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 14:51:33 -0500
From: "Chauncey Smith"
Subject: Re: Best rules system
T5 should be AFAIK in the "TRAVELLER" system so it should have a task system
and all the other things that you are familiar with from previous versions
of Traveller. IMHO it should be really kewl system from the information that
I've heard.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jesse LaBranche
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: Monday, March 13, 2000 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: Best rules system
>Ingo, Chauncey- thanks for the suggestions.
>With T5 coming out- is this supposed to have
>its own rules system to it as well?
>
>Later.
>
>Jesse.
>vanquer@email.msn.com
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2070
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Traveller-digest Monday, March 13 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2071
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Traveller Proofread commit
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: This is it. Any time now.....
Re: Jump Drives and Major Races
Re: Psionic/jump drives
Re: Meg>corps in OTU
Re: Jump Drives and Major Races
Re: New Zealand air farce
Re: Dave Must Go ...
Re: Apathy
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
RE: The Sad Saga of an Obnoxiously Received Newbie
Re: New Zealand air farce
Re: Jump Drives and Major Races
Re: Darkover for Traveller
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2050
Re: Jump Drives and Major Races
Subject: Re: Life at pH 0.05....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 15:19:50 -0500
From: "Chauncey Smith"
Subject: Re: Traveller Proofread commit
- -----Original Message-----
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: Monday, March 13, 2000 2:38 AM
Subject: Re: Traveller Proofread commit
>Jens Rydholm agrees:
>
>>Chauncey Smith wrote:
>This is a technique called Blind Testing. It is all too evident that
>most of the industry doesn't do it enough (or at all). Heck. Even normal
>Playtesting (by someone who PAYS ATTENTION to their testers) is
>seemingly beyond the ken of too many companies...
IMHO this kind of testing is needed for traveller products for a number of
reasons. Firstly our rich canon of work that is already published. The fact
that we speak the same language in technical terms. and finally to invite
new players in to our fold.
The rich background that makes Traveller fun for us to play has been out of
print for years. Even with the used game stores as a source for this
background it really doesn't extend the game. New players don't understand
the rules so even though they bought the game once are less likely to buy
supplements. The game that sold new will soon end up back at the used game
store.
Traveller players talk about aspects of equipment in the same way. If I say
my ship is capable of 3g's or jump 1 we all know what we're talking about.
Robots have the same language applied to them and every other thing has a
tactic that makes the information easily transferred. If we're going to
speak our way and want new players to understand us we have to give them a
dictionary of our terms so to speak.
All the above will have the new player feeling apart of traveller family and
we can get rid of the first post flame feast that happens when a new player
posts to the mailing list. They will feel right apart of and not like out
siders to the commuity we've built here.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 18:23:16 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
From: Peter Newman
> [Similar in some ways to the formation of the Klan in the Ante-bellum
> South - assuming you consider the Confederacy and the Union as
> being separate in the way that Italy (not that there was one Italy back
> then) and France were.]
The Klan formed after the American Civil War, not before it.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 23:28:26 -0000
From: "Matthew Bond"
Subject: Re: This is it. Any time now.....
- -----Original Message-----
From: SD Mooney
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: 13 March 2000 21:55
Subject: Re: This is it. Any time now.....
>At 12:17 -0500 13/3/00, "Douglas E. Berry"
wrote:
>> >... The Hebden Bridge TML meet happened at the weekend, and went off
rather
>> >well IMHO. No doubt Nick will be providing a further report soon!
>>
>>Well, I understand Dom had a bang-up time! Let's give him a hand, because
>>he needs one! *snicker*
>
>Methinks Mr Berry refers to the ACQ incident when I picked up a
>grenade to throw it back as a reaction task and promptly ran out of
>Action Points, whilst the other players closed the Iris valve on the
>section I was in.
>
>Result?
>
>
>
>
>
>Dom
Hee! Hee!
BTW, I couldn't have shot your first character when he stepped out into the
corridor, as a reaction can't spend more AP than the acting character has
already used that turn, and you'd only used one or two to move out and my
shot was four. I'd have had to wait until you did something else [such as
start to shoot me, or ready a grenade or start to step back behind cover]
before trying to shoot, though I could've dived for cover...
Still, you live and learn, eh! [especially once you get the rules home &
actually read them ]
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 16:28:52 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Jump Drives and Major Races
Anthony Jackson wrote:
>
> Peter Newman writes:
>
> > Droyne canonically were given the jump drive by Grandfather.
> >
> > Droyne = minor race
>
> That depends on whether Grandfather counts as Droyne or not.
> >
> > Humaniti, Vilani, Solomani, and Zhodani all developed in systems
> > with Ancient artifacts, possibly including jump drives.
>
> Though it is worth noting in the case of terra that (a) the jump drive was
> developed in the asteroid belt, nowhere near known ruins, and (b) the first
> jump drive was notably inferior, so it obviously wasn't a complete copy
> (a complete copy would not have been inferior) though it could have been
> reverse-engineered.
>
_KNOWN_ ruins. As I said in my earlier post, Pluto has been redzoned
since before the Terrans first went to Barnard's Star...for a reason.
They developed jump drive in the asteroid belt, not because that's where
they found it, but because that's the only place the found that they
could build bench models that didn't simply vanish forever or blow up
when they were turned on, on the research labs on Pluto.
Later they figured out the 100 dia. limit.
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 15:13:29
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Psionic/jump drives
At 02:30 PM 3/13/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>Jumps from non-Imperial to non-Imperial: Too many possibilities
>to discuss.
Wouldn't a good general rule be the nationality of the mother?
>
>Not in my Traveller universe. If you are a citizen of the
>Imperium and want an Imperial citizenship credential, you have
>to apply to the Imperial authorities for it (although the
>Imperium may outsource that job to the member state's
>government, in the case of advanced societies that the Imperium
>trusts to do identity verification, etc.).
Could there be an anaolgy to British possessions during the Empire? The
person is till Indian, or South african or what not, but his passport is
British.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 15:15:55
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Meg>corps in OTU
At 02:33 PM 3/13/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>>Why do we have mottos in Latin?
>
>In keeping with the Fiddler on the Roof theme, I'll tell you: I
>don't know. But it's a tradition!
Because "Willing and Able" (motto of the US 7th Infantry, "Cottonbalers")
looks better as "Voulens et Potens"
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"Non possum existimare plus quemquem facini"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 15:18:00
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Jump Drives and Major Races
At 02:44 PM 3/13/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>> Humaniti, Vilani, Solomani, and Zhodani all developed in systems
>> with Ancient artifacts, possibly including jump drives.
>
>Though it is worth noting in the case of terra that (a) the jump drive was
>developed in the asteroid belt, nowhere near known ruins, and (b) the first
>jump drive was notably inferior, so it obviously wasn't a complete copy
>(a complete copy would not have been inferior) though it could have been
>reverse-engineered.
Marc has stated many times that the Terran drive was a completely Solomani
invention. If you disagree, SolSec would like to have a few words with
you...
- --
Duugirashir Irebamenagiin gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
Inquisitor Maximus, Reformed Canon Church of Sylea
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 16:33:08 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: New Zealand air farce
SD Mooney wrote:
>
> At 13:33 -0500 12/3/00, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
> >Lucas is a British company that is *notorious*, as they make the (very,
> >very *bad*) electrical systems for most British autos (or at least they
> >used to). Calling their systems "failure prone" is a *compliment*.
>
> Used to is probably more accurate, and that's Lucas-Varity or
> Varity-Lucas, and is now Anglo-American. I think that the HQ is still
> in the UK and that the company is listed in the UK.
Ghods, and no one has yet come up the hoary old joke:
"Q: Why do the British drink warm beer?
A: Lucas refrigerators."
:-P
(done my time with the Lucas gremlin...I own a Moto-Guzzi (in a number
of boxes awaiting restoration now), which probably combines the worst of
all worlds: an Italian motorcycle with Lucas electrics... ;-)
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 23:32:12 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: Dave Must Go ...
On Sun, 12 Mar 2000 22:55:53 -0500, "David J. Golden"
wrote:
>- There's a difference between "it's" and "its," "they're" and
>"their," and "effect" and "affect," and ordnance and ordinance. And
>you don't use apostrophes to indicate plural!*
Ther is also a difference between "material" and "materiel."
Material = stuff
Materiel = military stuff
;-)
- - Jeff Peterson (j_pete@bellsouth.net)
"If a country is worth living in, it is worth fighting for." -Manning Coles
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
NOG #74 AirStar Nova 700
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 18:47:33 -0500
From: Ethan Henry
Subject: Re: Apathy
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
>
> Here on the TML we like to talk about the "Black Hole of Quality;" the
> mysterious force that sucks well-developed and useful ideas directly onto
> hard drives. I have over two megs of old messages that I saved because they
> impressed me as being useful. The talent is here. What we do with it is up
> to us.
*sigh* I can't talk for anyone else, but unfortunately my career as a
revered Traveller author is in line, right behind my other half-dozen
careers. And a rapidly expanding family (grub #2 in August! Woo-hoo!).
Unfortunately, none of them pay as well as my "day" job.
I feel accomplished just to read all the TML messages that make it into
my inbox. Anything beyond that is gravy - and, unfortunately, I don't
get a lot of gravy lately. Doug, I really wish I could help. Really.
But I don't have any change on me... er, I mean, I don't have that much
spare time. I wonder in awe at how Rob Prior manages to do what he's done.
> To shake the apathy, I have a suggestion: The TML 2000 Landgrab.
Hasn't this been done? The RICE papers? IMO, it ends up creating more data
than is usable. We could create the entire Spinward Marches right down to
Norris' nose hair count, but would anyone use it?
Or, to paraphrase Twain - "I did not have the time to create a short
background, so I created along one".
But, stuffy negativism aside, good luck to those who take on such a task.
Ethan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 16:55:17 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Glenn Goffin wrote:
>
> It doesn't sound consistent with canon, but there is certainly
> organized crime in the Imperium at various levels. One
> important distinction between the Imperium and USA/Italy related
> to the development of the Mafia is that the USA is a country of
> immigrants. The Mafia developed as a way for Italian immigrants
> to protect each other and get ahead. It was exported back to
> Italy, where it has really blossomed. (Please correct me if I
> have the history wrong.)
Actually the Mafia originated in the middle ages.
From the Encyclopedia Britannica website:
"The Mafia arose in Sicily during the late Middle Ages,
where it possibly began as a secret organization
dedicated to overthrowing the rule of the various
foreign conquerors of the island--e.g., Saracens,
Normans, and Spaniards.
The Mafia owed its origins
and drew its members from the many small private
armies, or mafie, that were hired by absentee
landlords to protect their landed estates from bandits
in the lawless conditions that prevailed over much of
Sicily through the centuries. During the 18th and 19th
centuries, the energetic ruffians in these private armies
organized themselves and grew so powerful that they
turned against the landowners and became the sole
law on many of the estates, extorting money from the
landowners in return for protecting the latter's crops.
The Mafia survived and outlasted Sicily's successive
foreign governments because the latter were often so
despotic that they alienated the island's inhabitants and
made tolerable the Mafia's peculiar system of private
justice, which was regulated by a complicated moral
code. This code was based on omertà--i.e., the
obligation never, under any circumstances, to apply for
justice to the legal authorities and never to assist in
any way in the detection of crimes committed against
oneself or others. The right to avenge wrongs was
reserved for the victims and their families, and to
break the code of silence was to incur reprisals from
the Mafia.
By about 1900 the various Mafia "families"
and groups of families based in the villages of western
Sicily had joined together in a loose confederation,
and they controlled most of the economic activities in
their respective localities.
In the early 1920s Benito Mussolini's Fascist regime
came close to eliminating the Mafia by arresting and
trying thousands of suspected mafiosi and sentencing
them to long jail terms. Following World War II, the
American occupation authorities released many of the
mafiosi from prison, and these men proceeded to
revive the organization. The Mafia's power remained
somewhat weakened in the rural areas of central and
western Sicily, however, and its activities henceforth
were directed more to urban Palermo--and to
industry, business, and construction, as well as the
traditional extortion and smuggling.
During the late
1970s the Mafia in Palermo became deeply involved in
the refining and transshipment of heroin bound for the
United States. The enormous profits sparked fierce
competition between various clans within the Mafia,
and the resulting spate of murders led to renewed
governmental efforts to convict and imprison the
Mafia's leadership. In a 1987 "maxi-trial" 338 Sicilian
mafiosi were convicted on a variety of charges.
There were, in the groups that emigrated from Sicily
and Italy in the late 19th and early 20th centuries,
individuals who had been part of the Mafia and who,
in their new countries (particularly the United States
and parts of South America), set about reproducing
the criminal patterns that they had left in Europe. By
the early 1930s the organized Italian criminals in the
United States had wrested control of various illegal
activities from rival Irish, Jewish, and other gangs, and
they proceeded, after a bloody nationwide conflict in
1930-31, to organize themselves into a loose alliance
with a clearly defined higher leadership.
After the
repeal of Prohibition in 1933, the American Mafia
abandoned its bootlegging operations and settled into
gambling, labour racketeering, loan-sharking,
narcotics distribution, and prostitution rings. It grew to
be the largest and most powerful of the U.S.
syndicated-crime organizations, and it reinvested the
profits accruing from crime in the ownership of such
legitimate businesses as hotels, restaurants, and
entertainment ventures.
Investigations conducted by U.S. government agencies
in the 1950s and '60s revealed that the structure of the
American Mafia was similar to that of its Sicilian
prototype. (In the United States, the organization had
adopted the name Cosa Nostra [Italian: "Our Affair"].)
From the 1950s, Mafia operations were conducted by
some 24 groups, or "families," throughout the country.
In most cities where syndicated crime operated, there
was one family, but in New York City there were five:
Gambino, Genovese, Lucchese, Colombo, and
Bonanno. The heads of the most powerful families
made up a commission whose main function was
judicial. At the head of each family was a "boss," or
"don," whose authority could be challenged only by
the commission. Each don had an underboss, who
functioned as a vice president or deputy director, and
a consigliere, or counselor, who had considerable
power and influence.
Below the underboss were the
caporegime, or lieutenants, who, acting as buffers
between the lower echelon workers and the don
himself, protected him from a too-direct association
with the organization's illicit operations. The
lieutenants supervised squads of "soldiers," who often
had charge of one of the family's legal operations
(e.g., vending machines, food-products companies, or
restaurants) or illegal operations involving prostitution,
gambling, or narcotics.
By the late 20th century the Mafia's role in U.S.
organized crime seemed to be diminishing.
Convictions of top officials, defections by members
who became government witnesses, and murderous
internal disputes thinned the ranks. In addition, the
gradual breakup of insulated Italian-Sicilian
communities and their assimilation into the larger
American society effectively reduced the traditional
breeding ground for prospective mafiosi. See also
organized crime. "
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 18:54:40 -0500
From: "Garcia, Abel"
Subject: RE: The Sad Saga of an Obnoxiously Received Newbie
- -----Original Message-----
From: Chris Seamans [mailto:semo@pil.net]
Mr. Berry responded to Troy's post and implied that Troy was John Hamilton
in disguise,.
Mr. Henry responded with the thoughtful and insightful comment, "If you're
on crack." I'm not sure exactly what part of Troy's message he was referring
to with that.
Mr. Garcia responded in the same thread and actually put words into Troy's
mouth and went so far as to toss an unwarranted personal attack in his
direction. He proved that he himself had not read the post in question.
>You're right Chris I was wrong. Sorry Troy for giving the TML the
impression that I was personally attacking you. I was not, and I apologize
for giving even the appearance of a personal insult. What I was doing was
playfully chiding Douglas for "imagining" that Troy and John were the same
person. I thought this would be apparent by using the "winking" emoticon ;)
I was tipping my hat at how funny I thought ehenry's crack was. (I did *NOT*
take ehenry's funny remark as aimed at Troy's person; I thought he was
"attacking" _STARFIRE_.) Here is my original post; as you can read for
yourself I did not write words into Troy's mouth. (Though this may come off
as sarcastic, it is not: I was not implying that _STARFIRE_ players are
crack addicts. I *WAS* implying that those of us on the TML -that smoke
enough crack to be considered addicts- probably consider _STARFIRE_ their
favorite SF game; of course such an insult to crack addicts is so absurd
that I felt most TMLers would understand the humor:)
I am sincerely sorry,
Abel
- -----Original Message-----
From: Douglas E. Berry
Anybody notice that we've been getting quite a number of new faces, with
similar posting styles, all saying the same basic thing?
- --
Now Douglas,
Just because 9 out of 10 crack addicts say their favorite SFRPG is
"STARFIRE" }8P is no reason to accuse them of misrepresenting themselves;)
Abel
("Boy, I sure picked a bad week to give up smoking..." -AIRPLANE!)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 16:01:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: New Zealand air farce
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>ObTrav: The Imperium may have a few companies equally notorious
>for poor quality due to being the *only* supplier in a region
>(and thus able to have a "take it or leave it" attitude).
"We're the phone company. We don't care. We don't have to."
(bumper sticker seen before the breakup of the Bell System)
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 15:07:45 -0900
From: Peter Newman
Subject: Re: Jump Drives and Major Races
> Anthony Jackson
> Peter Newman writes:
>
> > Droyne canonically were given the jump drive by Grandfather.
> > Droyne = minor race
> That depends on whether Grandfather counts as Droyne or not.
Not necessarily. I was following the canon notion that if
your jump drive is based on Ancient artifacts, using the
Imperium's Vilani descended Major Race/Minor Race rule, you
are not a major race. See the treatment of the Geonee for
an example.
In addition I'd say that Grandfather does _not_ count as
a Droyne. When the Droyne alien module talks about what
Grandfather did to the Droyne it always says "the Droyne" and
not "the _other_ Droyne" QED Grandfather is not a Droyne.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 15:59:46 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Darkover for Traveller
In mail you write:
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>> It would be interesting if somebody has already done
>>> that,since,exept the matrix tech,everything fits the
>>> rules.Exept:
>
> I did this back in the early 80's. Let me see if I can dig up the rules.
>
>>> Psionics:
>>> Psionic rating can never be higher than social (Since
>>> the Darkoverans are NPC's,that's not the problem)
>
> Not really. There was a lot of bastardy on Darkover which led to people
> with very high levels of psionics showing up in the wrong places, including
> Terran orphanages. Of course some of this was due to the murders of the
> parents and "disappearing" of the kids, but not all of it.
And every once in a while a woman gets caught in a Ghost With nobody
but a Chieri nearby. The resulting kids are usually strongly gifted.
>>> TL:
>>> Native TL is somewhat around 3(Correct me if I'm
>>> wrong).
> I'd hafta look that up. I hope I didn't get rid of this stuff.
Native tech is *different*. I'd place them as late pre-industrial if
you ignore weapons tech (because of the Compact), and also ignore the
stuff the Towers do for them.
If you include matrix tech in the rating, they are a *lot* higher tech,
but they don't *do* it the same.
I kinda wish Marion hadn't dropped a couple of details from some of
the early stories. Like the rusting remains of *starships* (near Hali?)
from before the Ages of Chaos.
>>> MATRIX:
>>> A Matrix is a psionic amplifier.It grants extra Psi
>>> points equal to it's rating.
>>> Cost:Rating x Rating x 3000.
>>
>>Matrixes are rated in "levels" in several of the books. Roughly "level" =
> "number of people required to *safely* control the matrix".
>>
> I don't know-- didn't most people have second-level stones as personal
> stones? A first level stone couldn't do much.
Maybe I'm thinking of another rating other than "level".
>> There are exceptions, such as Varzil's Ring, and the Shadow Matrix a
>> certain lady has embedded in her hand.
> yeah well... and the Sharra stone, and that sword...
Those aren't exceptions. While they can be *wielded* by one person,
they certainly aren't *controllable*! Ask anybody who managed to
*survive* using either one.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 15:31:02 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2050
In mail you write:
> At 03:30 13.03.00, you wrote:
>>You and Bruce have pegged it IMO, but what is this "Black War Rebellion"=
> ?
> Oh, just part of MT=B4s rebellion setting:
Volker, your software is using B4h as an apostrophe. That makes the
list software convert your posts to Mime "quoted printable". It also
erroneously adds a line indicating that you are using ISO Latin-1
(8859-1), which, since you aren't means software that *can* handle Mime
"quoted printable" coding will mis-translate them.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 15:25:15 -0900
From: Peter Newman
Subject: Re: Jump Drives and Major Races
Anthony Jackson wrote
Peter Newman writes:
> Humaniti, Vilani, Solomani, and Zhodani all developed in systems
> with Ancient artifacts, possibly including jump drives.
> Though it is worth noting in the case of terra that (a) the jump drive was
> developed in the asteroid belt, nowhere near known ruins,
I think the important word their is _known_
Remember that in Traveller canon some asteroid belts were
worlds before the final war.
Although our universe has clear astronomical evidence that our
asteroid belt is much older than 300,000 years the case
could be different in your Traveller universe. If the Ancients
blew up a planet to form the asteroid belts the notion that
all or part of a jump drive might be found their is not so
implausible.
> and (b) the first
> jump drive was notably inferior, so it obviously wasn't a complete copy
> (a complete copy would not have been inferior)
I think what might be better stated as "It wasn't a _perfect_
copy."
We don't know that the first Terran jump drives were not the
best monkey copies the Terran's could make of Ancient or Vilani
jump drives and that they merely choose the belt as their work
area.
I also not that early Terran drives may have been inferior due
to material limitations, in much the same way that early Vargr
drives were inferior due to their use of barium since Lair
lacked lanthanum.
> though it could have been
> reverse-engineered.
Or it could have been a complete Ancient or Vilani jump drive
that (in Ancient or Vilani hands) would have worked normally
but that, in Terran hands, was less reliable because the
Terran's did not really know what they were doing. The flaw may
have been in the (presumed) lack of trained jump drive mechanics
to maintain the drives and not in the drive itself.
It could also be a software problem. If the jump initiation
software the Terran's were using then did the jump drive
equivalent of revving a street cars engines up to 6,000 RPM's
leaving it running in place for a week and then driving it
250,000 miles without an oil change it would be no wonder the
jump drives would be short lived. {see TNE wear value rules}
Compare the expected operational life span of a modern US
military jet engine today to its expected life span if a time
warp took it back to WW I for instance.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 16:42:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Subject: Re: Life at pH 0.05....
>From: Bruce Johnson
>Like that Australian gold mining outfit in Romania that have
>managed to kill an entire river system in the name of marginal
>profit.
>My opinion is that they should be drug out and shot.
>Repeatedly. Starting at the toes.
You're obviously one of them soft-on-crime libber-alls, Bruce.
I think they should be made to live in or on the river.
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2071
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Date: 3/13/00 7:02:21 PM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Monday, March 13 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2072
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
re: yanks Concerning yankees
Re: And while I'm at it...
People who think Traveller is dead??
Re: Jump Drives and Major Races
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: Jump Drives
Re: Tokaji Azsu 6 petunias
RE: The Mafia in the Imperium
Promoting Traveller
Re Hebden Bridge.
Pre-MT stats for central imperial worlds?
Re: Jump Drives and Major Races
Re: Apathy (was: re: ULTIMATE yaddayaddayadda)
Re: Re Hebden Bridge.
re: The Sad Saga of an Obnoxiously Received Newbie
Re: Jump Drives and Major Races
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
re: Apathy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 16:49:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: re: yanks Concerning yankees
>From: Ludowick@aol.com
>Subject: yanks
>Concerning yankees, as I am one:
>The true yankee is a New Englander descended from the original
>English settlers. Other peoples who settled in New England in
>Someone posted about not being called a yankee, even though
>they have lived in NE for years. Well, you can't _become_ a
>yankee; you're born one or you aren't (no offense is meant by
>this).
That was me -- and it's actually generations, not just years, in
New England. No offense taken, by the way -- you can't become a
Russian Jew, after all.
Ob Traveller: This kind of situation will come up again and
again.
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 19:50:00 -0500
From: "R.D. Elliott"
Subject: Re: And while I'm at it...
>
>Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 11:30:19 -0600
>From: Black ICE
>Subject: Re: And while I'm at it...
>
>"R.D. Elliott" wrote:
>>
>> ...what exactly is happening with THUDDD anyhow? Are they still
>> being run?
>>
>> Roderick Darroch Elliott
>
>THUDDD is still being run. However, the current THUDDD coordinator,
>Jason Barnabas, is dealing with RealWorld [tm] time constraints at the
>moment, and is currently off-list. If you wish, you can still enter
>THUDDD 11 (modular cutter).
>
>http://www.releasingthefire.com/thuddd/index.html
>
>I posted the THUDDD 12 proposal a couple of weeks ago (a TL15 commerce
>raider). I can forward this to any interested parties who didn't see
>the original post.
Good to see it's still going. Why don't you fire the proposal off
to me; maybe Uncle Hengie could be induced to return from his extended
sabbatical in the Sayat Concourse...
Roderick Darroch Elliott
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 01:26:30 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty"
Subject: People who think Traveller is dead??
Traveller is not dead so long as there are players and there is product.
Well, not only is there T5 in development and GT in print, but there is
BITS.
Just a reminder: one of my many hats is as BITS submissions editor.
And we all know I have too much time on my hands.
So: if you have Traveller materials you want to see in print, talk to me
about it.
The Newsletter needs short items (encounters, product reviews, etc). Longer
stuff like full scenarios (any rules set - BITS has a conversion system for
use in all its products) could get a book all to themselves.
I'll discuss query ideas if you like, or just email me some drafts.
The game isn't dead and won't be until we all say it's dead.
But how about proving it's alive by writing something?
Regards
MJD
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 17:20:40 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Jump Drives and Major Races
In mail you write:
> Droyne canonically were given the jump drive by Grandfather.
>
> Droyne = minor race
But Grandfather *was* a Droyne. That makes them a major race. Also,
note the comments about the quality of Droyne jump drives in several
sources.
> Humaniti, Vilani, Solomani, and Zhodani all developed in systems
> with Ancient artifacts, possibly including jump drives.
>
> Humaniti = possible minor race [especially the Vilani whose
> culture discouraged innovation more than Solomani and Zhodani
> cultures did.]
This needs to be broken down farther...
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 16:32:13 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
In mail you write:
> On Mon, 13 Mar 2000, Walt Smith wrote:
>> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> >The cops are a joke. The *real* "serve & protect" bit is done by the
>> >local syndicate. You pay your "insurance" and anybody stealing from you
>> >will have the boys from the syndicate getting your stuff returned, and
>> >"explaining" to the miscreant the error of his ways.
>> >
>> >Done right, it should even be a moderately stable social system.
>>
>> Does the Imperium get a "Piece of the Action"?
>
> As long as the gangs pay their Imperial Taxes and don't hinder trade, the
> Imperium will even refer to the gangs as Government.
And the gangs probably consider the taxes as "protection".
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 01:18:38 -0000
From: "Matthew Bond"
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
- -----Original Message-----
From: Glenn Goffin
To: traveller mailing aa list
Date: 13 March 2000 21:22
Subject: re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
>>From: "Robert Snyder"
>>The Zhodane may use this organization as a type of intelligence
>>organization (3rd column) within the 3rd Imperium.
>
>You mean Fifth Column, which is rebel forces within an enemy's
>border (so called because Napoleonic era armies usually marched
>in four columns; the fifth was a secret weapon not just in the
>enemy's rear but within its own forces).
*Bzzzz* Sorry Glenn, another mistake. It hasn't been your week, what with
Yaskodray as well...
The phrase "Fifth Column" dates to the Spanish Civil War.
From Dupuy & Dupuy's "The Encyclopaedia of Military History":
1936, October...Four rebel columns under [General Emilio] Mola continued to
converge on Madrid; he said he had a "fifth column" in the city. This was
the origin of this as a term for subversive activity.
>--Glenn
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 16:18:36 -0900
From: Peter Newman
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
> "Chris Seamans" wrote
> From: Peter Newman
> > [Similar in some ways to the formation of the Klan in the Ante-bellum
> > South
> The Klan formed after the American Civil War, not before it.
I know, I wrote Post-bellum & when I sent it the spell
checker "corrected" it to Ante-bellum, sorry.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:19:05 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: Jump Drives
In a message dated 3/13/00 1:53:48 PM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
> GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> >> Every culture that developed jump drive had a carefully-seeded set of
> >> almost-working, easy to copy examples in their home system. >>
> >
> > This is not in keeping with my feelings on the matter. YMMV.
>
> Well, Loren, just because Grandfather has you in his pocket like a
> pinched-off bit of the universe doesn't mean we like you any less...
>
> It's just my luck that my all time favourite pet Traveller theory
> came up when I was temporarily without email... *sigh*. The "they all
> copied it" theory is, in some ways, a lot neater than the "really, it's
> just a coincidence" theory. While it doesn't necessarily jive with what
> you, the original authors (I think Marc feels the same way as you AFAIK)
> might think, too bad! :)
>
> It's an even better theory than the "The Hivers started the Frontier Wars"
> theory.
>
> Ethan
Terry McInnes did a short write-up on this for the Solomani. A Vilani
scoutship(?) misjumped into the Sol system and landed on earth, they provided
the basis for one of the early cultures (can't quite remember which offhand,
started with an 'S' I think). Later on another one crashed/landed at Roswell,
this provided Jump tech to Earth.
This is of course a conspiracy heavily influenced by Hiver manipulations to
alter Solomani attitudes.
Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:23:38 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: Tokaji Azsu 6 petunias
In a message dated 3/13/00 1:53:48 PM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
>
> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:18:32 +0000
> From: SD Mooney
> Subject: Re: Tokaji Azsu 6 petunias
>
> At 16:52 -0500 12/3/00, Jens Rydholm wrote:
> >Could be useful to download the whole thing in that case. You'd probably
> >have to format the data in some way, though.
>
> I have the MT Player's Library data from the Imperial Encyclopedia on
> my Palm IIIx as a searchable file, and as a searchable pdf on my Mac.
>
> Dom
There are two to three versions available on the HIWG CD also (plug), a
text version, an HTML version and one other I think.
At least one new version is needed. This would would include dates for
which the material is good for.
Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 17:39:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: RE: The Mafia in the Imperium
>From: Bill Rutherford
>I'm not up on Imperial law, but does breaking planetary law
>necessarily break any Imperial laws - specifically as regards
>smuggling? In the USA, the (Federal) Interstate Commerce
>Commish gets involved in these sorts of disputes. Is there an
>Imperial analog? (That was a plea to anybody out there who both
>knows and cares!)
Imperial law is not implicated simply by violation of the laws
of Imperial member worlds. If Imperial interests are at stake,
Imperial action will follow, whether based on law or the
discretion of the local Imperial nobility. The early Imperium
was much more closely involved in the economics of its members
and the trade among them. Among Empress Arbellatra's
post-bellum reforms were trimming the Imperial bureaucracy and
narrowing its mandates regarding interstellar trade. By late
Imperial times, the Imperium tends to ignore almost everything
that happens at the local level, even when the locals ask for
assistance.
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:39:12 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Promoting Traveller
In a message dated 3/13/00 3:20:18 PM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
> I fully support people actively trying to promote Traveller by their
> work in it, or by offering to help; I feel cynical about the reality
> of a mass of people sitting there waiting to be asked to make it
> right.
I'd have to second this in part.
I've tried to get several things started (writer's list, adventures,
magazine, CD, traveller clubs), tossed out ideas. Started work on a
Traveller CD and other things. But unless I keep things going personally,
things don't happen. Part of this is the time involved, and the web and
mailing lists have actually probably made things worse rather than better
(IMO).
Nobody seems to have the motivation or time involved to actually get anything
done (including me at times, though my situation should improve over the next
couple of weeks).
Some people have done some good things on their own that correspond with
ideas I had, on thier own. Robert Eaglestone and Jeff Zeitlin come to mind,
and Colin(?) at Downport.com. But these are just a start.
Also a group of people aren't going to do it. Not unless one person leads the
way and has a lot of time and energy to put into it (I've seen attempts
elsewhere.
Bryan
HIWG CS
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 01:49:39 -0000
From: "Derrick Jones"
Subject: Re Hebden Bridge.
Guys,
I didn't get to play in the ACQ game, but have been having a look
at it, and plan a sesh at the weekend (if my wife will let me !!!!)
Some highlights of the weekend included:
Navigation skills by yours truly.. Without a map!
Healthy living demonstration by Dom & Derrick
Andy Lilly's shock as the carefully planned encounter actually sort of
worked too well, and caused him to miss out a significant chunk of his
plan for the session.
Jae & Dom's violent, sadistic, but down right funny, attempts to teach
an obnoxious brat how to get into a vacc suit.....
Convincing the hotel owner that Matt and I were brothers and that he
should be allowed to stay for the lock in.....
Playing Magblast in an late night drinking binge...
Dom (lightweight) Mooney's efforts at placating a certain young lady at
about 3am on sunday morning. (I'm not saying any more........) ;-)
Finding ourselves locked out of the hotel room at 3.01 am......
Watching Andy's face as the 'nice guy' admin & legal expert started his
interrogation (using an ATV as a tongue loosener) of another obnoxious
youth...
Finding sinister things going on in Nick's brain.. That character was a right
sicko!
Jae's way of swindling us out of a well earned reward...
I can't wait for next year........
Derrick
Derrick Jones
St Helens
Lancashire UK
http://www.btinternet.com/~dojones.whitestar
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 17:55:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Pre-MT stats for central imperial worlds?
When working with my mapping programs, I discover that an awful lot of the
sector lists for the central imperium are MT-era, while the solomani rim is
CT-era. Two things are notable as a result of this:
There are a bunch of TL-G worlds in the central imperium. There are none on
the Rim.
An awful lot of high-tech worlds have rather low-grade starports. There
are 91 Pop-A, TL-F/G worlds in the imperium. Only 48 have class-A starports.
On the Rim, 12/12 have class-A starports.
Is there a way I can get a list of worlds which is all in the same era?
Also, can anyone give me canonical GNP and conversion rate figures?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 02:18:36 -0000
From: "Matthew Bond"
Subject: Re: Jump Drives and Major Races
- -----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Johnson
>_KNOWN_ ruins. As I said in my earlier post, Pluto has been redzoned
>since before the Terrans first went to Barnard's Star...for a reason.
And your source for this is...?
The only reference I can lay my hands on for Pluto being "Off Limits" to
civilians is p7 of S&A, but I merely states that Solomani policy after the
creation of the Autonomous Zone was to continue with an exclusion zone of
1AU established around the *3I* Naval Base & Research Station
>They developed jump drive in the asteroid belt, not because that's where
>they found it, but because that's the only place the found that they
>could build bench models that didn't simply vanish forever or blow up
>when they were turned on, on the research labs on Pluto.
Pluto wasn't visited until *after* the invention of Jump drives. In fact a
micro-Jump was used to get there. AM6 Solomani, p.4
Also, only Venus and Titan are specifically mentioned as Ancient sites
within the Sol system in Solomani & Aslan. The Ancient connection wasn't
discovered until the first manned expedition reached the surface in 2830
[S&A p.5], 743 years *after* Jump technology was available. Titan has yet to
provide any major finds [ibid p.7], though neither AM6 or S&A specify when
it was first visited...
As for the Hivers, their first drives, invented in -4698, limited them to a
10 parsec radius, and they developed their improved J1 drives in -4212
*before* contacting any other starfaring race, the non-Jump capable Ithklur
in -3986 [AM7 Hivers p17, Aliens of the Rim: Hivers & Ithklur p14], and
long before they encountered either the K'Kree [-2045, AM7 p17, H&I p15] or
Solomani [-1802, AM6 p12, S&A p20]
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 18:27:49 -0500
From: "Chauncey Smith"
Subject: Re: Apathy (was: re: ULTIMATE yaddayaddayadda)
Damn that sounds like a damned good idea.. And alot of fun too.
Count Me in.
Chauncey Smith AKA drkmage
With out heresay there may never be any change,
With out change there there death....... Dulinor
ITMU: tc tm+ tn++ ?tg tt !to ru ge+ 3i c++ jt- au+ st++ ls pi- ta++ he++
kk hi+ as va ?dr ith+ ?vr ?ne so zh++ vi+ dr++ sy-
- -----Original Message-----
From: Douglas E. Berry
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: Monday, March 13, 2000 6:05 PM
Subject: Apathy (was: re: ULTIMATE yaddayaddayadda)
>At 07:44 PM 3/13/2000 +0000, Dom wrote:
>
>To go back to our "Dune" discussions of last week, "Apathy is the
>Game-killer". Too many good games and companies have gone down the tubes
>because the fans just expected to be fed an ever-increasing diet of quality
>materials. Doesn't work that way anymore kids.
>
>To shake the apathy, I have a suggestion: The TML 2000 Landgrab.
>
>Anyone interested takes a world in the Spinward Marches and details the
>hell out of it. First In would be preferred, but any of the earlier systems
>will be acceptable. climate, Culture, Ecosystems, Government, odd laws,
>religions, notable events for 1100-1120, linguistic notes.. everything to
>make each world a living experience.
>
>Unlike the THUDDD, these would be cooperative endeavors. If I need help
>with determining if a certain set of laws is feasible, I can call upon the
>assembled brains of the TML for help; if somebody has a question about how
>an army would be organized, I'd probably be able to answer. This would
>stimulate the already fascinating conversations we have here.
>
>As we finish, we post our worlds either here or on a web site (to be named
>later) for everyone's use. Then you take another world. Doesn't matter how
>long it takes, but the end result should be a living planet.
>
>I dibs Regina/Heya (2402)
>
>Well, what do you think, Sirs?
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 02:37:51 -0000
From: "Matthew Bond"
Subject: Re: Re Hebden Bridge.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Derrick Jones
To: 'TML'
Date: 14 March 2000 01:52
Subject: Re Hebden Bridge.
>Guys,
>
>I didn't get to play in the ACQ game, but have been having a look
>at it, and plan a sesh at the weekend (if my wife will let me !!!!)
Watch out for Grenades... and, of course, Penguins
Dom blew himself picking one up [grenade... not penguin ], and Nick
(Wright, I think... BTW thanks for the lift to the station) got caught
within the blast of his own grenade, and came of worse than his intended
target [Me! and, incidentally, Andy Coombes IIRC]
>Some highlights of the weekend included:
>
>Convincing the hotel owner that Matt and I were brothers and that he
>should be allowed to stay for the lock in.....
We should have adjourned to my gaff... no Fast Talk skill required...oops
thats RQ
>Playing Magblast in an late night drinking binge...
We should *definitely* have gone to where I was staying. That game is soooo
cool, especially when the meek, mild-mannered Dom transforms into DtB.
>I can't wait for next year........
>
>Derrick
Me too... Bruv
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 18:38:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: re: The Sad Saga of an Obnoxiously Received Newbie
>From: "Chris Seamans"
>
>Now, that's the situation. *Troy* himself was the new poster
>referred to in the message you responded to. I've said it
>already, and I'll say it again: the guy got a shameful
>reception here on the list. It's that simple.
Yeah, guys, pay attention here about whom you're offending.
Troy, welcome to the list. You should know that the bottom line
for me is still, what essay are we going to make you write? I'm
leaning toward "Why no one uses asteroids accelerated to a
significant fraction of light speed as weapons of mass
destruction," with a section devoted to explaining the map of
Victoria/Spinward Marches, but there may be other subjects that
we need elucidated.
- --Glenn
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Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 18:45:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: Jump Drives and Major Races
>From: Anthony Jackson
>Though it is worth noting in the case of terra that (a) the
>jump drive was developed in the asteroid belt, nowhere near
>known ruins,
With all due respect, so what? Once they understood that the
jump drive won't work inside a gravity field, they just carried
the Roswell ship and/or the prototype they'd reverse engineered
from it out to deep space.
>and (b) the first jump drive was notably inferior, so it
>obviously wasn't a complete copy (a complete copy would not
>have been inferior) though it could have been reverse-
>engineered.
A perfect copy may have appeared inferior if inferior knowledge
was applied to using it. The Greys aren't going to give us
everything to fight the Vilani at once for a number of reasons.
They want it to be plausible that we figured it out for
ourselves, hence the secret conspiracy. They have to develop
some confidence in us, e.g., that we will have the tenacity to
fight the Ziru Sirka. They need to figure out a way to protect
themselves, probably by manipulating us into not finding their
homeworld (you don't really think it's Zeta Reticuli, do you?).
Plus, they have to check the Hiver agenda, and make sure things
are proceeding according to plan.
- --Glenn
(General Counsel to Conspiracies'R'Us)
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Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 18:53:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
>From: Peter Newman
>
>Remember how thinly spread the Terran's were. Do you really
>think that the Rule of Man was, or even cared to, able to
>distinguish between a "good" Solomani Ensign ruling her planet
>with a firm hand to keep the Vilani down and a "bad" Solomani
>Ensign who was running her entire planet as Capo e Capo of a
>planet wide protection racket above an ethnically Vilani crime
>family who had adopted Solomani mob culture to serve as her
>underlings?
>Imagine a scenario like this: The Vilani Empire has just
>collapsed.
>A Solomani Ensign has just landed on a Vilani planet. She
>"invites" the planetary leaders to come out to the starport
[deletion]
>"Nice planet youse guys got here - it sure would be a shame
>if'n something ud happen to it wouldn't it?"
That was probably close to SOP in the early days after the fall
of the Ziru Sirka. The early Terran proconsuls had to have wide
latitude to tax the conquered territories in order to finance
their own administrations, because Terra itself did not have the
resources to finance administration of the entire conquered Ziru
Sirka. They also had the latitude to enforce their directives
with such naval assets as they could convince to help them --
and the convincing often involved payment to the navy. Thus the
navy ran its own protection racket, protecting the proconsuls
from the local Vilani, while the proconsuls protected the Vilani
from the Navy.
Well, it's all much less corrupt now that we have new Third
Imperium. Really.
- --Glenn
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Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 19:01:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: re: Apathy
>From: "Douglas E. Berry"
>Subject: Apathy (was: re: ULTIMATE yaddayaddayadda)
>The whole "Mafia in Traveller" thread has me preparing an idea
>for Andy about a "101 Mobs" book for BITS.
I knew youse was good people, Doug.
>I have over two megs of old messages that I saved because they
>impressed me as being useful.
Do you have my posts on law and justice in the Imperium from
about three or four years ago? I can't find them, and would
love to review them.
>To shake the apathy, I have a suggestion: The TML 2000
>Landgrab. Anyone interested takes a world in the Spinward
>Marches and details the hell out of it.
>I dibs Regina/Heya (2402)
Well, what do you think, Sirs?
This is a great idea. I may even participate, although I'm not
so good on the science side. I will certainly use whatever we
produce, however. I find that using other people's ideas for
details does two things for me as a referee: (1) it gives me
more time to develop the story I'm trying to do, and (2) it
gives my players some surprises, because the sources from whom I
borrow do not necessarily approach situations the same way I do.
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2072
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, March 14 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2073
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
re: Apathy
RE: This is it. Any time now.....
RE: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
RE: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
Imperial citizenship documents (was Re: Psionic/jump drives)
Re: Jump Drives and Major Races
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?-
Traveller with Alternity
Re: Re: MM just publish background - ie. do we need T5?
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: Re: MM just publish background - ie. do we need T5?
Re: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
RE: CT Reprints (Was: do we need T5?)
Re: Re: MM just publish background - ie. do we need T5?
RE: And while I'm at it...
Re: Re: MM just publish background - ie. do we need T5?
Mistakes were made
Re: Imperial citizenship documents (was Re: Psionic/jump drives)
Re: Traveller with Alternity
Re: Psi induced jump (was Re: jump induced psi)
MONTANA-class Battleship (T4/FF&S2) (longish)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 19:01:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: re: Apathy
>From: "Douglas E. Berry"
>Subject: Apathy (was: re: ULTIMATE yaddayaddayadda)
>The whole "Mafia in Traveller" thread has me preparing an idea
>for Andy about a "101 Mobs" book for BITS.
I knew youse was good people, Doug.
>I have over two megs of old messages that I saved because they
>impressed me as being useful.
Do you have my posts on law and justice in the Imperium from
about three or four years ago? I can't find them, and would
love to review them.
>To shake the apathy, I have a suggestion: The TML 2000
>Landgrab. Anyone interested takes a world in the Spinward
>Marches and details the hell out of it.
>I dibs Regina/Heya (2402)
Well, what do you think, Sirs?
This is a great idea. I may even participate, although I'm not
so good on the science side. I will certainly use whatever we
produce, however. I find that using other people's ideas for
details does two things for me as a referee: (1) it gives me
more time to develop the story I'm trying to do, and (2) it
gives my players some surprises, because the sources from whom I
borrow do not necessarily approach situations the same way I do.
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 17:14:49 -0000
From: Matt Bond
Subject: RE: This is it. Any time now.....
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Douglas E. Berry [mailto:gridlore@pop.mindspring.com]
> Sent: Monday, March 13, 2000 8:12 AM
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: Re: This is it. Any time now.....
>
>
> At 04:06 PM 3/13/2000 +0000, you wrote:
>
> >... The Hebden Bridge TML meet happened at the weekend, and
> went off rather
> >well IMHO. No doubt Nick will be providing a further report soon!
>
> Well, I understand Dom had a bang-up time! Let's give him a
> hand, because
> he needs one! *snicker*
??????!
And I was there...
BTW Doug, I bought a copy of ACQ, so that should nett you a few cents
We actually played a quick run through with Dom, but he was a bit rusty
having not played it since playtesting a few months ago. Having now
actually read it through at home it seems very good indeed, though I
will probably write a house-rules hit location system for integrating
with TNE. I've always like a good hit location system with variable
armour on different locations [I even find Phoenix Command pretty
straight-forward ].
The way I see it, I would use ACQ as it stands to see if you hit, then
have tables representing the more common stances to roll on to find
which exposed location was hit. i.e. if you were firing at a target who
only has his head, shoulder and arm exposed [e.g. he's firing a pistol
round a corner], you would have a penalty to hit but once it's been
determined that you *have* hit then you roll to see which of the exposed
locations you actually hit on a hit location table that only includes
head, shoulder & arm.
I'm a table freak and I know it
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 15:22:20 -0000
From: Matt Bond
Subject: RE: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Douglas E. Berry [mailto:gridlore@pop.mindspring.com]
> One of the mob's biggest money makers is cigarettes. They smuggle
> cigarettes into a states without paying the necessary taxes.
> They then sell
> the cigarettes to distributors at a huge mark-up, but still
> below the cost
> of the legal cigarettes. If you watch the movie "Beverly
> Hills Cop" this
> is what Eddie Murphy's character is doing at the beginning of
> the film.
Or rather "...this is what Eddie Murphy's character is *pretending* to
do at the beginning of the film."
Moral:
Beware of undercover cops.
And never, *ever*, kill their friend, even if he did sting you for a
sh*tload in bearer bonds...
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 15:44:00 -0000
From: Matt Bond
Subject: RE: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daniel Phelps [mailto:phelpsd@gate.net]
> Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2000 4:31 PM
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: Re: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
>
>
> Was Written:
>
> So why should there be megacorps with names in languages nobody
> >understands?
>
>
> The only reasons I can think of and they are admittedly weak
> ones is to try
> and establish social/historical/political legitimacy via
> such a name as a
> link to a legendary and mythic past. This would be done in
> lavish company
> histories in the manner of the created genealogies of both
> 16th century and
> earlier European royalty, some of who traced their ancestors
> back to Odin,
> and the Emperors of Japan.
>
> Does this seem reasonable to anyone else? I
>
> Dan
Well, the genealogies of the Anglo-Saxon kings claim descent from
'Woden' as set out in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicles (somewhat predating any
C16 claims), but this could be either the god, a mythical hero or a real
chieftain with the same name... Much like modern people can claim
descent from Thor... if they are Scandinavian, and Thor was their
fathers name etc.
However, I didn't realise that European Royalty also trace their lineage
back to the Emperors of Japan. Neat Trick!
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 19:12:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Imperial citizenship documents (was Re: Psionic/jump drives)
>From: "Douglas E. Berry"
>Subject: Re: Psionic/jump drives
I had written:
>>Not in my Traveller universe. If you are a citizen of the
>>Imperium and want an Imperial citizenship credential, you have
>>to apply to the Imperial authorities for it (although the
>>Imperium may outsource that job to the member state's
>>government, in the case of advanced societies that the
Imperium
>>trusts to do identity verification, etc.).
>Could there be an anaolgy to British possessions during the
>Empire? The person is till Indian, or South african or what
>not, but his passport is British.
That's a pretty good analogy, if not perfect. If you left the
British Empire, you'd show your British passport at each border.
If you were travelling within, say, India, you might not have
to. The British had a lot more local involvement than the
Imperium does (even replacing local judiciaries and legal
systems), so they might have required internal passports. If I
recall correctly, the wogs -- excuse me, the native peoples --
had to have their papers in order to go from one Indian state to
another. I don't know if people from Britain itself did.
Regarding the idea that I somehow missed of defaulting to giving
a child born in jumpspace the mother's citizenship, that may
sometimes be the case. Some societies would find the father's
citizenship paramount, of course, so conflicts could ensue. I'd
put it down as another possible citizenship rule.
By the way, Imperial citizenship is automatically granted to
anyone who is a citizen of an Imperial member world, however
that person got citizenship there (being born there, immigrating
and meeting naturalization requirements, mother was a citizen,
whatever). The Imperium is big enough that it doesn't care if a
million Vargr decide to become citizens of Jesedipere -- or
maybe even a billion. If they become a threat to the region,
the Imperium will deal with them.
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 19:15:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: Jump Drives and Major Races
>From: "Douglas E. Berry"
>Marc has stated many times that the Terran drive was a
>completely Solomani invention. If you disagree, SolSec would
>like to have a few words with you...
I'm not disagreeing, but I would just like to point out that
there is not a single photograph, oral report, or any other item
of evidence ever linking Marc and the Smoking Man. Coincidence?
or part of a conspiracy to maintain plausible deniability? You
be the judge.
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 19:17:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
>From: Bruce Johnson
>From the Encyclopedia Britannica website:
>"The Mafia arose in Sicily during the late Middle Ages,
Thanks for a very informative post, with lots of ideas for
Traveller.
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 19:24:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?-
>From: "Matthew Bond"
>Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?- -----Original
I had written
>>>From: "Robert Snyder"
>>>The Zhodane may use this organization as a type of
>>>intelligence organization (3rd column) within the 3rd
>>You mean Fifth Column, which is rebel forces within an enemy's
>>border (so called because Napoleonic era armies usually
marched
>>in four columns; the fifth was a secret weapon not just in the
>>enemy's rear but within its own forces).
You replied:
>*Bzzzz* Sorry Glenn, another mistake. It hasn't been your week,
>what with Yaskodray as well...
>The phrase "Fifth Column" dates to the Spanish Civil War.
>From Dupuy & Dupuy's "The Encyclopaedia of Military
>History": 1936, October...Four rebel columns under
>[General Emilio] Mola continued to converge on Madrid; he said
>he had a "fifth column" in the city. This was the origin of
>this as a term for subversive activity.
I will take the points for correcting Robert Snyder's reference
to a "3rd column", but concede the etymology (and thank you for
reminding me to get my copy of Dupuy & Dupuy back from my ex,
who is no longer writing the military part of her novel).
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 22:03:50 -0600
From: Paul Kerby
Subject: Traveller with Alternity
I opened up my copy of Dragon for April 2000, and there, in several
colors, is an 8 page article on using the Traveller universe with the
Alternity Rules. The article gives the basics of the background, the
Technology differences, Alternity stats for the major races, a brief
outline of each race, and a few sidebars with reference material and web
info, such as the Webring. Some minor errors, but in all, a pretty good
article.
Not bad for a "DEAD" system
Dragon Magazine, #270, April 2000, "New Frontiers, The Traveller
Universe for the Alternity Game" by Stephen Kenson
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:09:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Frodo Baggins
Subject: Re: Re: MM just publish background - ie. do we need T5?
- --- Traveller-digest wrote:
>
>...There is no version of Traveller currently in
print > which a newbie can just pick up and play...
Yes, there is! Classic Traveller is now back in print.
Check out
http://members.aol.com/Traveller/T000-00.html
"Far Future is reprinting the Classic Traveller books
in a series of volumes over the coming 18 months. Each
book is an exact reprint of the original books,
grouped by type: books, adventures, supplements, and
others. Book 1 is available now; Book 2 will be
available in May."
I got my copy of Book 1 last week. As most of my
original LBBs are long gone, this was like finding a
lost friend. I truly hope that Classic Traveller
makes a big comeback with this reissue.
Sam
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 23:09:56 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
From: Peter Newman
[concerning the Klan's origins]
> I know, I wrote Post-bellum & when I sent it the spell
> checker "corrected" it to Ante-bellum, sorry.
Ach! Gotta love those spellcheckers!
Last semester I wrote a paper, and a certain read of Denis Diderot's
"Supplement to Bougainville's Voyage" was rather important in illustrating
my point. My spellchecker corrected my paper for me and transformed all
instances of the name Bougainville (a noted French navigator) to
Bougainvillea (a tropical American woody vine named after him).
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 23:14:09 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Re: MM just publish background - ie. do we need T5?
From: Frodo Baggins
> --- Traveller-digest wrote:
> >
> >...There is no version of Traveller currently in
> print > which a newbie can just pick up and play...
>
> Yes, there is! Classic Traveller is now back in print.
> Check out
> http://members.aol.com/Traveller/T000-00.html
Yep. I know, I should be ordering mine this week. However, it unfortunately
still doesn't fit the bill. This is a specialty mail-order product which a
prospective newbie would have to order "sight unseen". I suspect that's not
particularly likely.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 23:25:21 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
From: Matt Bond
> Well, the genealogies of the Anglo-Saxon kings claim descent from
> 'Woden' as set out in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicles (somewhat
> predating any C16 claims), but this could be either the god, a
> mythical hero or a real chieftain with the same name... Much like
> modern people can claim descent from Thor... if they are
> Scandinavian, and Thor was their fathers name etc.
Tracing the ancestry of leaders to gods or heroes is an extremely common
practice, the Ancient Greeks did it frequently and anthropologists working
in contemporary Africa report it frequently as well.
Lineages tend to be somewhat fluid as well, especially in societies in which
oral transmission predominates. This caused quite a few problems when
European anthropologists went into Africa and compared various family trees
which had been recorded over the years. Certain ancestors would disappear,
come back into favor, or jump to a different family.
ObTrav: I can imagine a number of uses for such practices.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 23:26:00 -0500
From: "James Fleming"
Subject: RE: CT Reprints (Was: do we need T5?)
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01BF8D43.7DC745C0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Chris Seamans states in regards to the reprints,
"Yep. I know, I should be ordering mine this week. However, it =
unfortunately
still doesn't fit the bill. This is a specialty mail-order product which =
a
prospective newbie would have to order "sight unseen". I suspect that's =
not
particularly likely"
According to the website, they plan to start letting gaming stores start =
stocking them in the near future. Wish I'd have know that earlier and =
saved the shipping and handling charges.
Jim
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Duke, if God almighty could turn himself into a man with all that power =
still inside him and some dude asked him to fight, who would win?
Hey! That wouldn't be a fair fight! The God-man would kill him, it'd =
be like fighting the bionic man...only worse!
- "The Sissy" by Jack Chick
- ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01BF8D43.7DC745C0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
Chris Seamans states in regards to the reprints,
"Yep. I know, I should be ordering mine this week. However, it=20
unfortunately
still doesn't fit the bill. This is a specialty =mail-order=20product which a
prospective newbie would have to order "sight =unseen". I=20suspect that's not
particularly likely"
According to the website, they plan to start letting gaming stores = start=20 stocking them in the near future. Wish I'd have know that earlier =and=20saved the shipping and handling charges.
= =20 = =20 Jim
--------------------------------------------------------------------=- --
Duke,=20if God almighty could turn himself into a man with all that power still =inside=20him and some dude asked him to fight, who would win?
Hey! That =wouldn't=20be a fair fight! The God-man would kill him, it'd be like fighting = the=20 bionic man...only=20 worse!
&nb=sp; =20 - - "The Sissy" by Jack Chick
- ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01BF8D43.7DC745C0--
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 23:24:51 -0500
From: "Sword-Worlder"
Subject: Re: Re: MM just publish background - ie. do we need T5?
Actually, Marc said that the dealer orders have been pretty good,
considering its status as a collector book. Have you asked your FLGS to
carry it yet?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Colin Michael, WebDev
www.downport.com
The Traveller Domain
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Seamans
> Yep. I know, I should be ordering mine this week. However, it
unfortunately
> still doesn't fit the bill. This is a specialty mail-order product which a
> prospective newbie would have to order "sight unseen". I suspect that's
not
> particularly likely.
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:22:27 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff
Subject: RE: And while I'm at it...
Hallelujah, pass the ammo, and God help us all :)
Best,
Jesse
Famile Spofulam Cartoonist
http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/ditzie.htm
http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/new_ditzie_page.htm
> Good to see it's still going. Why don't you fire the proposal off
> to me; maybe Uncle Hengie could be induced to return from his extended
> sabbatical in the Sayat Concourse...
>
>
>
> Roderick Darroch Elliott
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 23:42:40 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Re: MM just publish background - ie. do we need T5?
From: Sword-Worlder
> Actually, Marc said that the dealer orders have been pretty good,
> considering its status as a collector book. Have you asked your
> FLGS to carry it yet?
Good to hear that it is. I still have my doubts as to its use as an intro
for new players to Traveller. However, if I get down to the local gaming
shop between now and my exams I will do so.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 22:43:39 -0600
From: Stormhound
Subject: Mistakes were made
Chris Seamans wrote:
> Last semester I wrote a paper, and a certain read of Denis Diderot's
> "Supplement to Bougainville's Voyage" was rather important in illustrating
> my point. My spellchecker corrected my paper for me and transformed all
> instances of the name Bougainville (a noted French navigator) to
> Bougainvillea (a tropical American woody vine named after him).
Well, that shows the dangers of turning a machine loose on a task that
requires human oversight. I never let a spell-checker run without my
interference, since I quite frequently use words from fantasy/sci-fi or of my
own invention (particularly names) for gaming.
ObTrav: An adventure idea that'll probably work better on a lower-tech, high
law/control level world...some clerk in the local Department of Corrections is
editing a document, and lets a spell-checker loose without paying attention.
Said machine transmutes the last name of an escaped, condemned criminal into
the last name of one of the PCs (or one of their local friends/contacts).
Said criminal looks vaguely like the PC, until you can get up close and
compare pictures. Much merriment ensues.
1 - The local DoC realizes the mistake after a few hours, affecting the PC
only briefly (but perhaps enough to mess up one meeting, or long enough for a
short encounter with local law).
2 - The local DoC realizes the mistake after a few days, leading to a merry
(but thankfully short) chase.
3 - The local DoC retracts the mistake fairly quickly, but a snafu in
communications means that some officers/bounty hunters/etc. don't get the
message.
4 - The local DoC doesn't realize the mistake until after the PC is captured
and brought in. Good thing that orders were to capture alive.
5 - Mistake? What mistake? PC is considered armed and extremely dangerous.
Shoot to kill.
6 - Mistake? Hardly...the PCs have offended someone, and the name switch was
deliberate. And the picture too. Good luck...
Technology is your friend...
- --
Stormhound
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 23:56:43 -0500
From: Steve Daniels
Subject: Re: Imperial citizenship documents (was Re: Psionic/jump drives)
Glenn Goffin wrote:
> By the way, Imperial citizenship is automatically granted to
> anyone who is a citizen of an Imperial member world, however
> that person got citizenship there (being born there, immigrating
> and meeting naturalization requirements, mother was a citizen,
> whatever).
You sure about that?
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 00:00:48 -0500
From: Steve Daniels
Subject: Re: Traveller with Alternity
Paul Kerby wrote:
> I opened up my copy of Dragon for April 2000, and there, in several
> colors, is an 8 page article on using the Traveller universe with the
> Alternity Rules.
Hmm. Using the Traveller setting to play a game with Traveller-derived
rules. Makes perfect sense.
I was just looking over the Alternity player's and gm's books.
I forgot how disgusted I was at this lame imitation of Trav.
"Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery,
but invention is the most sincere form of criticism."
bloo
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:18:17 -0800
From: Kristian Miller
Subject: Re: Psi induced jump (was Re: jump induced psi)
"Josh W. Spencer" wrote:
> tell him that all Pushers do what he's supposed to do...push the vessel of
> course. They give him Pusher food, tell him about all the Pusher worlds out
...
> The only way he could do it was for the aliens to reveal to him his deepest,
> primal fears...and suddenly the vessel's velocity was up and through the
> light barrier!!
> I think the name of the anthology was "Untouched by Human Hands."
Hey! I saw that on an episode of "The Tick" too!
ObTrav: NASA did have an advanced propulsion conference last year. One
of the talks was on psychic propulsion. NASA was allowing some far out
brainstorming.
Kristian
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 23:29:09 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: MONTANA-class Battleship (T4/FF&S2) (longish)
As I continue to work on the AuricTech Shipyards Web site upgrade, I
find that I just _have_ to post a design or two to the TML (to tide you
[and me!] over until things are ready).
In that spirit, here's the MONTANA-class battleship, designed for
service in the M:1100 setting (i.e., TL-15):
**begin transmission**
AuricTech Shipyards MONTANA-class Battleship
Tons: 500,000 std (SL Medium Rounded Cylinder Hypersonic)
Dimensions: 486.5 m x 140 m x 140 m
Volume: 7000000 m3
Cargo: 1600 std (32 hatches, Hdl: 32 x 100 t, Armor: 20 [90])
Mass (L/C): 7583971 t / 73555155 t
Maintenance Points: 204256
Passengers High/Med: 0
Crew: 8245 / 10791
Frozen Watch: 324 (5 groups)
Cost: 746387 MCr (Cost Multiplier 1)
Tech Level: 15
Size: 11
Electronics:
Controls (Armor: 20 [90]): Holographic, Standard automation. 32 x
FltComp (CM: .2 CP: 5.0). 16 x FibComp (CM: .2 CP: 5.0). Terrain
following sensors (TF: 570, NOE: 190). Bridge (Armor: 20 [90]).
Communications (Armor: 20 [90]): 2 x Radio (1,000 AU, 0.2 MW). 8 x Laser
(1,000 AU, 0 MW). 1 x Meson (1,000 AU, 5 MW).
Sensors (Armor: 20 [90]): 1 x PEMS (15 [500 mkm], 5 MW). 1xAEMS (13 [16
mkm], 1000 MW). 8 x LIDAR (15.5 [5 mkm], 4 MW).
Survey/Science (Armor: 20 [90]): 1 x Densiometer (9.5 [1600 km]). 1 x
Neutrino (9.5 [1600 km] Sci, 2000 MW).
ECM (Armor: 20 [90]): 1 x Radio Jammer (1,000 AU, 0.4 MW). 1 x Area
Jammer (12, 625 MW). 1 x Deceptive Jammer (13, 12.5 MW). 1 x Passive
Jammer (16, 6.25 MW).
Signatures: Vis: -0.5, IR: 1 (1 at 1184204 MW, 0.5 at 139000 MW), Act:
0.5, Neu: 1, Grav: 2
Performance
4 Jump (50000 std/pc fuel) (Armor: 20 [90])
6 / 6.1 Maneuver (Thruster: 1128225 MW) (Armor: 20 [90])
No Contra-grav
5000 kph/5000 kph Atmosphere Maximum
3750 kph/3750 kph Atmosphere Cruise
6 Power (Fusion: 1390000 MW, 1 yr) (Armor: 20 [90])
0 Battery
209978.6 Fuel (Scoop:11 / Purif: 36, 2450 MW) (Armor: 20 [90])
10900/100/350/2750 Accommodations (SmStRoom/LargeStRoom/Low Berth/Emgy
Low Berth) (Armor: 20 [90])
286000 Life Sup. (Type:Extended, Good Food/Storage) (Armor: 20 [90])
6 G-Comp (Armor: 20 [90])
100 x Sandcaster (AV: 79, 50 x canister ea., arranged in 20 x bty)
(Armor: 20 [90])
24 x Nuclear Damper Turret (5 MW, Range: 50000 km, arranged in 6 x bty)
(Armor: 20 [90])
715 Damper Screen (338 MW) (Armor: 20 [90])
715 Meson Screen (639.04 MW) (Armor: 20 [90])
160 [2860] Armor, 59 Structure
Weapons:
[All batteries include MFDs]
44 x 250 MJ Laser Turret Battery (+6) 1 /5-5-5-5 [2, 200/40-40-40-40]
(LR) (2 x turret/bty). PD ROF: 800
4 x 568 MJ Laser Bay (+6) 1/8-8-8-8 [2, 800/60-60-60-60] (LR) (2 x
laser/bay).
32 x Missile Bay Auto 4/4 (Mag: 76, MFD Range: 500000 km) with 80 x Cmd
DL 1d6/2 6.0 G12 1000 AU.
8 x 19044 MJ Parallel PAW (+6) 2/13-13-13-13 [1, 200/980-980-980-980]
(LR) (Armor: 20 [90]).
1 x 87358 MJ Spinal PAW (+6) 2/19-19-19-19 [1, 400/2099-2099-2099-2099]
(LR). (Armor: 20 [90]).
Features:
5000 x Airlock
140 x Decon Airlock
1 x Docking Umbilical
2 x Electronic Shop (6 std ea.) (Armor: 20 [90])
106 x Machine Shop (8 std ea.) (Armor: 20 [90])
100 x Sickbay (8 std ea.) (Armor: 20 [90])
12 x Prisoner Capacity (6 x MedSec brig, 6 x HiSec brig) (Armor: 20
[90])
1 x Ship's locker (250 std) (Armor: 20 [90])
100 x Armory (8 std ea., Cap: 110) (Armor: 20 [90])
110 x Gym (2.5 std ea.) (Armor: 20 [90])
16 x Lounge (100 std ea.) (Armor: 20 [90])
1 x Combat Information Center (265 std) (Armor: 20 [90])
16 x Ordinary Galley (Cap: 100) (Armor: 20 [90])
100 x Full Galley (Cap: 110 ea.) (Armor: 20 [90])
Small Craft:
4 x Minimal Hangar (400 std ea, 4 x hatch) (Armor: 20 [90])
16 x Minimal Hangar (200 std ea, 2 x hatch) (Armor: 20 [90])
24 x Spacious Hangar (50 std ea, 2 x hatch) (Armor: 20 [90])
1 x Launch Tube (200 std) (Armor: 20 [90])
2 x Launch Tube (50 std ea.) (Armor: 20 [90])
Backups
Drives: None
Screens: 1 x Meson Screen (PV: 143). 1 x Damper Screen (PV: 160).
Communications: 2 x Radio (500,000 km)
Sensors: 2 x PEMS (14.5 [160 mkm]). 2 x AEMS (13 [16 mkm]). 12 x LIDAR
(14.5 [500 kkm]).
ECM: None
Power & Fuel: 1 x Fusion (100000 MW).
Crew Details: 11 x Maneuver. 1 x Electronics. 6373 x Engineer. 385 x
Maintenance. 665 x Gunner. 37 x Screen. 180 x Flight. 1200 x Troops.
1475 x Command. 104 x Medical. 360 x Steward.
Designer's Notes (brief): This ship is my equivalent, in some ways, to
the TIGRESS-class of battleship. While the "Happy Fun Ball" is a more
efficient configuration, I found that I could not fit a long enough PAW
tunnel in a Sphere. Hence, the Medium Rounded Cylinder configuration.
I chose the Medium Rounded Cylinder over the Short Rounded because I
thought that MRC ships look better thna SRC shipa.
I am especially fond of the eight parallel-mount PAWs. They serve the
same secondary battery function as bay weapons, but are _much_ larger
(each one is nearly as powerful as the main spinal mount of my
TUSCALOOSA-class heavy cruiser). The spreadsheet (the equivalent to
Akins 3.3) includes a parallel-mounted meson gun of very similar volume,
mass, power, and crew requirements, thus allowing customers to order
variants, with meson guns replacing secondary PAWs at a 1:1 ratio, with
virtually no redesign work. (You'll have a few extra crew stations;
removing them will entail a bit more work than leaving them there.)
Nearly all facilities on the MONTANA-class battleship have supplementary
armor of rating 20 [90]. This is due to the way that the Akins
spreadsheet handles combat sheets for Bruce Macintosh's Military Combat
System (MCS). Under MCS, hull armor on the MONTANA class is rated as a
value of 18. By adding armor to various facilities, those facilities
have an effective armor rating under MCS of 19, thus making them more
difficult to damage with penetrating PAW hits.
As with nearly all AuricTech designs, the MONTANA class includes such
amenities as crew lounges (each equipped with an Ordinary galley, as a
snack bar), individual Small staterooms for _all_ crewbeings (senior
officers and petty officers receive individual Large staterooms),
physical fitness centers, and a Combat Information Center. These
facilities are included to maintain crew efficiency during extended
cruises. Those hardy souls who create deck plans should note that crew
lounges are located close to sickbays, thus enabling the medical staff
to use the lounges as casualty collection points/triage centers during
battles.
The MONTANA class continues the AuricTech tradition of equipping
warships with the most powerful sensor suite possible, while working to
stealth the ship as much as possible. After all, "if you can see it,
you can kill it", so our designers work to ensure that the AuricTech
ship can see its foe first.
Bear in mind that this ship has only _half_ the tonnage of AuricTech's
SHIVA-class battleship (soon to be posted to the AuricTech site). Be
afraid. Be very afraid. (Not just of the ship itself, but also of its
nearly unprecedented Cheddar factor!)
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2073
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, March 14 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2074
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
The Mire Run (both parts)
Re: The Mire Run (both parts)
Re: Traveller with Alternity
Re: Traveller with Alternity
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2073
Re: Tokaji Azsu 6 petunias
re: The Sad Saga of an Obnoxiously Received Newbie
ACQ (was Re Hebden Bridge.)
Re : 'Parahumans'
Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab
Re: The Role of the E-7+
Smuggling in the Imperium
Re: Modern Traveller
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2050
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Chargen (long)
Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
Re: Modern Traveller
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
RE: And while I'm at it...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 16:30:45 +1100
From: "Katharine Whitchurch"
Subject: The Mire Run (both parts)
A Brief Guide to the Glisten-Mire Route
If the bit at the front sounds like an advertising brochure, it is ("At
twenty rounds a second, the loudest sound of the Famile Spofulam Mark Three
Automatic Gauss Carbine is the creak of the ardalope-skin trigger. Unless of
course you dial the velocity of the rounds up to 2000 meters per second,
like we do ..."). One of the ideas that is rolling around my head is that
High Passengers on long-distance trips deserve suitable entertainment on
long distance trips. You've always wanted to take your party of PCs
pig-sticking havent you ...
****************************************************
Glisten is one of the Jewels of the Marches - a hundred worldlets, circling
around their sun, connected by the silver threads of gigs, shuttles and
mass-driven cargos, a system alive in a dance of commerce.
Two subsectors away lies Mire, capital of the Imperial Ally State of the
Darrians - a proud, ancient civilisation who are carefully hauling
themselves back from the fiery abyss of the Magiz.
Seven jumps. Twenty-one parsecs. The gateway to the experience of a
lifetime.
******************************************************
After leaving the busy system of Glisten, the first port of call is Egypt.
Please be aware of local atmospheric conditions, and contact the Purser or a
Steward regarding an escort and suitable protective clothing if you wish to
make a tour of the surface. Suitably experienced persons with TAS insurance
packages may wish to engage in hang-gliding, although an exposure of thirty
minutes or less is strongly recommended.
Our second destination is Mertactor, the Provisional Subsector Capital of
District 268. Blessed with a sweet-smelling atmosphere, bareback or saddled
poni rides and a Rebor hunt are scheduled for our two-day planetfall. Fly
fishing trips can also be arranged upon request - as always, feel free to
contact our Purser or a Steward. A further high point of the visit is dinner
with a local art expert, Mr Ganidiirsi Meszaros, whose work in organising
the purchase of a number of pieces from Lakou for the Members Room of the
Glisten Polo Grounds was recognised by a Candidate Membership in that
association.
Passengers are reminded that we are leaving Imperial space on lifting from
Mertactor, so contact our Purser regarding Declarations of Attorney and
appropriate financial arrangements at least 24 hours before liftoff, if
these services will be required.
268 B262732-B Cp 610>
Tarkine is truly one of the most beautiful worlds of the District, with it's
maginificent mountain valleys and marked level of biodiversity. Passengers
are advised to take care with decontamination procedures, as the local
administration engages in ongoing dialogue with it's citizens about the most
appropriate way to achieve balance between development and environmental
objectives.
Local political issues aside, we have arranged for a number of sightseeing,
diving and tours in the quaint propellor aircraft of local construction.
From Tarkine we go to Squallia, an extra-Imperial world of noted charm. A
world renowned for it's sunsets, a walking tour of the Tarkine Uplands and
Mount Edanos will be conducted by a team of researchers from the Tarkin
Teknic-Schule.
For the less active passenger, a day stay with a Squallian family in their
underground residence can be arranged by a Steward or the Purser.
Finally, the purser can arrange for suitably qualified personell to have
airtime as a pilot or navigator on a genuine Squallia Self Defense Force
Wasp class light atmospheric fighter. Passengers should be aware that this
will be a private arrangement between themselves and the Squallia Social
Navigation Collective, and persons interested in such should contact the
Purser make arrangements.
From Squallia we head to Asteltine, site of several ground engagements
during the recent Frontier War. A veteran of the Asteltine Landings will be
available to guide a tour in sealed ATVs of a site of fighting between
elements of the Sword World Confederation Marines and the Asteline
Volunteers. Passengers should note that Asteltine is a world with a low
level of social control, even by frontier standards.
While Asteline's belt does not compare with Glisten or even the nearby
Bowman system for mineral richness, it does have a number of working claims,
and subject to local security conditions at the time of visit, the Company
may be able to arrange a visit to a genuine working belter colony.
From Asteline we will go to Ator V, where we will be met by a courtesy
escort from the Darrian Navy. As a standing invitation exists for Captains
of Darrian Navy ships to dinner on board Company ships, passengers will be
able to experience first hand the courtesy and artistic flair of this
ancient civilisation.
After refuelling from Darrian Navy oiler, we will again go into jumpspace
for our final jump of the tour, at which point we will help you clear
customs, and then give you a fond farewell at the carefully-tended garden
world of Mire, the political capital of the Darrian Confederation.
***************************************************************
OK, thats it. What I'd like off people is NPCs, so I can slot them in and
turn it into a module.The ship would be a Far Trader modified for Jump-3,
with about 10 passengers and little cargo.
Thats the advertising brochure. This is a short list of what could go wrong,
to help the crew earn their pay.
Egypt : Hang gliding in an Insidious atmosphere. Did the guys at HQ *read*
the UPPs ?
Mertactor : Huntin', shootin, and skinnin, - the first 2 should be pretty
safe, but count your fingers and toes after sitting down to talk art with
the Fat Man. It is almost inevitable he has something just precisely right
to sell you.
Tarkine : A 2 day tour in Cessnas on a planet that is *this* far away from a
shooting war.
Sqallia : Touring a live volcano with a bunch of guys paid for by the Sword
Worlds. Are you *sure* they dont think you are INS ? Plus homestays. Can you
spell "Drug the Impie Spy to the eyeballs and interrogate them ?". Or maybe
we will play "Lets kill the Impie Spy by the Old Exploding Engine in the
Rented Fighter" trick.
Asteline : Gov zip. Law 2. Pop 4. TL A. 4 parsecs from Narsil. And we're are
heading to the Asteroid Belt to visit miners. Didnt you guys *read* the
Sunbeard Declaration ??? We're talking prime pirate country here - and this
is *me* talking. Heck, Hans would probably accept pirates in the Asteline
Belt. Oh yeah, and lets see how much of the old ordance on the old
battlefield is still active - you know, like drone missiles with californium
warheads.
Ator : So we're jumping to the fringes of a barely-controlled system, in the
expectation of meeting up with the Darrian Navy. Uhuh. I'm sure.
Ian Whitchurch
(c) Ian Whitchurch, 2000. Not to be reprinted without my permission, except
in Jeff Zeitlin's online zine Freelance Traveller. And he has to do the
HTML.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 00:08:52 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: The Mire Run (both parts)
Katharine Whitchurch wrote:
>
> A Brief Guide to the Glisten-Mire Route
>
<>
> OK, thats it. What I'd like off people is NPCs, so I can slot them in and
> turn it into a module.The ship would be a Far Trader modified for Jump-3,
> with about 10 passengers and little cargo.
That is tres cool!
Under which game system do you want NPCs generated? And for which
positions (ship's crew, locals, or both)?
(BTW, have you designed the ship yet using T4 rules? If not, then
AuricTech would be pleased to do so. I'd offer our firm's services for
GT, except that I'm still not fully up-to-speed on GT ship design.)
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 16:03:13 +1000
From: "Scout Harris"
Subject: Re: Traveller with Alternity
- --
On Tue, 14 Mar 2000 00:00:48 Steve Daniels wrote:
>I was just looking over the Alternity player's and gm's books.
>I forgot how disgusted I was at this lame imitation of Trav.
In what way was Alternity an imitation of Trav?
Just askin' :)
I own a copy, and I must admit I only glanced through it, but the only way it seemed to resemble Trav was in the fact that it was a SFRPG.
Haven't refereed it yet, mainly becuse our group has been too busy playing Trav... (hee hee).
Scout Harris
Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 00:33:25 -0600
From: Stormhound
Subject: Re: Traveller with Alternity
Scout Harris wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Mar 2000 00:00:48 Steve Daniels wrote:
>
> >I was just looking over the Alternity player's and gm's books.
> >I forgot how disgusted I was at this lame imitation of Trav.
>
> In what way was Alternity an imitation of Trav?
> Just askin' :)
> I own a copy, and I must admit I only glanced through it, but the only way it seemed to resemble Trav was in the fact that it was a SFRPG.
> Haven't refereed it yet, mainly becuse our group has been too busy playing Trav... (hee hee).
Speaking as someone who *has* played it, the resemblance is superficial at best, IMO. The skill system has ranks...but in practice the
skills seem valued in a way more reminiscent of GURPS, being based from stats. The equipment uses Tech Levels, but these are rather different
from Traveller's. Mechanics are different, background isn't anywhere close...I didn't get anything close to the same feel as Traveller.
One has to make allowances for the fact that games can use (very) vaguely similar mechanics without being imitations. Otherwise, every
wargame that uses a CRT or attack strengths is an imitation of the first one.
IMHO, if Alternity is a lame imitation of Traveller, then I'm a lame imitation of Harrison Ford. (Or perhaps Alec Guinness.) ;-)
- --
Stormhound
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 02:07:10 -0600
From: John Littleton
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2073
Glenn Goffin wrote:
>To shake the apathy, I have a suggestion: The TML 2000
>Landgrab. Anyone interested takes a world in the Spinward
>Marches and details the hell out of it.
This is very OT for this thread, but I have always wondered about Solomani
expansion to Rimward. How far did/will/can they go? How big is the Solomani
sphere? To me, this idea is as interesting as the Zho Core expeditions (actually
more so). Please, any canon or non-canon responses.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:11:29 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: Tokaji Azsu 6 petunias
At 22:01 -0500 13/3/00, Kagehira@aol.com wrote:
> There are two to three versions available on the HIWG CD also (plug), a
>text version, an HTML version and one other I think.
> At least one new version is needed. This would would include dates for
>which the material is good for.
I did that on my version of the player's data.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:03:33 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: re: The Sad Saga of an Obnoxiously Received Newbie
At 18:18 -0500 13/3/00, "Chris Seamans" wrote:
>Actually, Dom, it would appear that Troy wasn't talking about John, but
>about himself. In the "Traveller Went Down" thread people were basically
>saying to John Hamilton "put up or shut up", that he should give advice on
>what should be done with Traveller.
>
>Troy added his own comment to the thread: some folks bought the rights to
>Starfire and cut out a lot of the crufty bits and, in Troy's opinion, it's
>now a fine game, and he seemed to imply that something like that might work
>with Traveller.
>I honestly can't understand how anyone would see this as insulting. This is,
>however, the Traveller Mailing List, so I shouldn't be surprised when people
>don't bother to read other peoples' posts and just blabber on about any damn
>thing they want to blabber on about.
I understand now - I had the impression that Troy was talking about
John from reading his posts. Apologies.
I know from other lists that some people have a very poor opinion of
Starfire though :-/
But that doesn't mean that responses shouldn't be constructive or polite.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:47:15 +0000
From: Andy Coombes
Subject: ACQ (was Re Hebden Bridge.)
Matt wrote:
>Watch out for Grenades... and, of course, Penguins
>
>Dom blew himself picking one up [grenade... not penguin ], and Nick
>(Wright, I think... BTW thanks for the lift to the station) got caught
>within the blast of his own grenade, and came of worse than his intended
>target [Me! and, incidentally, Andy Coombes IIRC]
>
Yep. The advice in the front of ACQ is absolutely spot on - don't get carried
away and use up all your APs too soon. I suffered the ignominious (and
fatal) fate
of being caught in front of a shotgun with nothing I could do other than drop
to the floor and take a carefully aimed shot to the head. (I thought
dropping to
the floor before I was shot would save time later.)
ACQ is a fine game. I played Snapshot years previously, and was
dissatisfied with
one player doing lots before another player getting the opportunity to do
something.
ACQ gets over this really well with the Action/Reaction system.
I just need an opportunity to play it some more now...
Andy.
- ----
"Monsters don't eat fishcakes... They eat Elephants RAAA!"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 19:56:55 +1100
From: "Robert O'Connor"
Subject: Re : 'Parahumans'
Hmm...
The term appears to be peculiar to GURPS 'Bio-Tech'* - it refers to
highly uplifted animals (e.g. Cordwainer Smith's underpeople) or variant
humans (e.g. with bat wings, feline sense of balance, etc.)
Traveller never really had rules for this sort of thing (excluding
Contact! articles) ; only two
cultures have the capability for advanced genetic engineering in the
official TU.
James Maliszewski's recent JTAS article on minor human races is the
closest thing I have seen (excluding rules for therapeutic cloning and
regen tech in TD).
A question :-
Anyone have any ideas on how the Solomani Movement, driven by racial
'purity', tolerates the expertise of its biotechnologists?
Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer
- ----------------
* - On average, a well researched book. Some of the improvements as
described don't make much sense, though.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 19:57:17 +1100
From: "Robert O'Connor"
Subject: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab
Doug Berry wrote :-
> Anyone interested takes a world in the Spinward
> Marches and details the hell out of it. First In would be preferred,
> but any of the earlier systems will be acceptable.
Great idea - the return of the RICE Papers ; does BtC form our baseline
data?
Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 01:12:38 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: The Role of the E-7+
>From: Glenn Goffin
>Subject: Re: The Role of the E-7+
...
>Do any of the major powers in any milieu run into these
>situations? Comments on the Gazelle in Supplement 7, Traders
>and Gunboats, suggest that during the Civil Wars there was an
>ongoing fear of mutiny which afffected naval ship design. Any
>other times and powers?
The Gazelle class must come centuries after the Civil Wars; as
a TL E design it's not possible until ~1000. Now what about the
idea that it's a Rim War-era design and that the internal security
issues described are concerns about Solomani agents or activist-
induced mutiny aboard ships crewed from the just-liberated fringes
of the Sphere?
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 20:01:19 +1100
From: "Katharine Whitchurch"
Subject: Smuggling in the Imperium
Part of this is in response to the Mafia in the Imperium thread, and some of
it has been floating around my head for a while.
Because the Imperium enforces so few laws, smuggling in the Imperium is a
bit of a problematic concept - smuggling against planets, certainly, but
slaves, nukes and supplies to pirates is a bit of a specialised and limited
market for PC purposes.
I guess that gun-running to extra-Imperial states could be an option,
especially with the Vargr extents, but if we want smuggling to exist for PCs
to be tempted by it, we need a rational explaination.
What I think would explain 90% of smuggling in the Imperium is the concept
of "Stealing as Servant". A typical case would be a megacorp installation on
some worldlet somewhere. They have security through occasional IN patrol
backed up by a AEMS rig, a Famile Spofulam 600 MJ Rapid Fire laser (powered
by a huuuuge battery pack), a dozen sandcasters and a couple of plasma guns
off TL13 MBTs in crystaliron and concrete gun bunkers in case someone wants
to try the old close-and-board thing.
Now, the employees on the station are on salary, and probably have to pay
over the odds for goods at the Company Store.
If the production records could be fixed, a quantity of actual output could
never turn up on the books. This could then be exchanged to a Free Trader
for stuff the employees want, and Head Office is none the wiser.
Now, assuming the Free Trader does the deal, picks up the stuff and sells it
a couple of worlds over, where does the Imperium sit with all this ?
Firstly, it could regard such a breach of procedure as purely the problem of
the corp concerned - if they either got more loyal employees or better
internal security procedures, then none of this would be a problem.
Secondly, it could regard the worldlet as coming under the appropriate law
of the local planetary government of the system the worldlet is in - they
can sort it out with the purchasing world.
Thirdly, it could consider the trade of goods stolen on one world and
re-sold on another as affecting interstellar trade (as the stolen goods pass
through Imperial space), and thus an Imperial issue, and take appropriate
responses.
In the first case, cue corporate goons stage left.
In the second case, cue corporate lawyers stage right. Imperial extrality
laws then come into play - unless under what circumstances can the
Imperial authorities can extradite persons to the jurisdiction of member
worlds ?
In the third case, we have a number of jurisdictional issues as to who
within the Imperium should deal with this. The Ministry of Commerce or the
Ministry of Justice are the obvious candidates, but if funds are available,
any self-respecting bureaucracy will want to be involved (cue IISS, IN etc.
Or outsource it to InstellArms or Famile Spofulam).
Ian Whitchurch
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 22:47:12 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Modern Traveller
On 13 Mar 00, at 6:21, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> I may be in the minority, but I've never seen the purpose of the "my gun
> is bigger, I have more crap stuck in my head" school of cyberpunk. I did
> run a Biotech/Voodoo game once that was a look of fun, but the stuff in
> the Chromebooks just seems wrong to me. Oh, well.
>
> Now, the field kitchen in CSC. A 96 page book, filled with some very
> useful stuff for adventurers in all sorts of situations. To my mind, there
> hasn't been a Traveller book this useful for everyday gear since either
> The FCI Consumer Guide (FASA 1982) or the latest US Cavalry catalog.
>
> Opening to a random page, I find things like the Entry Cutter-10 (portable
> laser cutter designed to carve holes in starship hulls), Excavating tools,
> a portable generator.. all sorts of nifty things!
>
> The field kitchen is an item of Army surplus, and not out of place, given
> the nature of the milieu 0 game. you might be leading a large
> archeological expedition, and have to feed your diggers, for example. If
> nothing else, it makes a nice flavor (NPI) piece in the book. --
So how much of the book is useful? If it's all stuff like you mention
above I might have to weaken and buy my first (and likely last) piece
of T4.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 22:47:12 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2050
On 12 Mar 00, at 14:22, Volker Greimann wrote:
> At 03:30 13.03.00, you wrote:
> >You and Bruce have pegged it IMO, but what is this "Black War Rebellion"?
> Oh, just part of MT´s rebellion setting:
> When it became apparent to Lucan, that a quick victory was no longer
> possible, he turned to black war, meaning deep penetration raids into
> enemy territory, destroying all industrial capacity and starports on
> worlds passed and wreaking much additional havoc as well. Worlds that were
> in danger of falling into enemies hands were turned economically and
> militarily worthless as well. In short, just good times for the citizens
> of the Imperium ...
Also known as "If I can't have it, you can't either."
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 22:47:12 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
On 13 Mar 00, at 0:13, Chris Seamans wrote:
> Every RPG has its hook, however. The World of Darkness games are rich in
> background and attitude and they focus on unhindered dramatist-style
> roleplaying. I'm not sure how that gets defined as "semi-interactive novel
> writing". AD&D tends to lend itself toward small, but balanced groups
> facing off against progressively more difficult challenges... and so on.
In truth I don't know what their stuff is like now, but back when
Vampire first came out I read one of WW's published adventures, and the
thing that most struch me was that the PC's were effectivly there
solely to provide dialogue. It was so pre-set it wasn't funny. To make
matters worse as far as I could tell from the rules that's how they
expected the "Storyteller" to write their own adventures (oops -
stories). The very name "Storyteller" pretty much sums it up for me.
> Traveller has a few hooks, and while these hooks don't appeal to
> everybody, they do seem to appeal to certain people rather strongly. One
> of these hooks is a strong grasp of roleplaying's wargaming roots, much
> stronger than most other RPGs.
But not stronger than the biggest and firstest. D&D is even closer, and
was for many years.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 22:47:12 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Chargen (long)
On 13 Mar 00, at 5:57, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> At 01:18 PM 3/13/2000 +1300, you wrote:
>
> >> > They're all the dead-wood that is too connected to dispose of, and
> >> > too useless to send to the front to get shot.
>
> >> At the staff levels with which I am most familiar (battalion and
> >> brigade), staff sections (officers and NCOs) are essential to the
> >> functioning of the unit. If commanders had no staff, they would spend
> >> so much time on personnel and logistics issues alone that they would
> >> have no time left to _command_.
> >
> >I was referring to them mostly. Also to those officers that get made "PR
> >Officer", or somesuch due to connections, etc.
>
> Even the so-called "deadwood" have vital jobs that have to be done right
> or people die. Or don't get paid. Or fail to get their orders. --
Yeah, I know, but as an ex-Lance Corporal in the Infantry, I just can't
resist the opportunity to snipe at all those REMF who would get to
drink port and whisky in thier club while my mates and I are out in the
blood and mud.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 03:00:58 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
>
> A question :-
> Anyone have any ideas on how the Solomani Movement,
> driven by racial
> 'purity', tolerates the expertise of its
> biotechnologists?
Well,First of all,it's an ideology:that means,while
you pay lip services for it,you ignore it whenever it
suits you.See Nazi Germany and it's bizzare "Aryan
Science" (hollow Earth,for example).
Second.the Solomani are at war.Perhaps the 3I thinks
it's peace;SolSec don't.And you need every edge you
can get,and since the Vilani are traditionally behind
in Biotech,who could give up such an edge?
Third,the Solos don't say they are perfect,( in an
universe with invisible-turning Droyne,Ancients and so
on,this would be too fanatic),they just say that they
are better than the Vilani and the rest.
> Robert O'Connor
> Medico, Gamer
> ----------------
> * - On average, a well researched book. Some of the
> improvements as
> described don't make much sense, though.
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 03:09:05 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: Modern Traveller
- --- Rupert Boleyn wrote:
>
> So how much of the book is useful?
(Central Supply Catalogue)
If it's all stuff
> like you mention
> above I might have to weaken and buy my first (and
> likely last) piece
> of T4.
About 2/3 of the book.The rest is a downsized reprint
of the vehicle construction kit.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 03:29:38 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
- --- SD Mooney wrote:
> At 11:02 -0500 11/3/00, john hamilton
> wrote:
> >I'm not looking down to other people.This is
> reserved
> >to snoby people who ,for example,think that a new
> >member of the list has to wait to say his opinion
> >about the games weaknesses.
>
> Is this the same new member who has been on the list
> a year yet
> doesn't recall Clif?
>
> Or is it a hypothetical new member?
>
> Just curious....without really reading what I`ve
wrote:I never said that I'm here for a year.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 06:51:25 -0500
From: "R.D. Elliott"
Subject: RE: And while I'm at it...
>
>Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:22:27 -0800
>From: Jesse DeGraff
>Subject: RE: And while I'm at it...
>
>Hallelujah, pass the ammo, and God help us all :)
>
>Best,
>Jesse
>Famile Spofulam Cartoonist
>http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/ditzie.htm
>http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/new_ditzie_page.htm
>
Cartoons? Oh boy... this I have to see... and me with an 8:30
meeting. Dammit :).
Roderick Darroch Elliott
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2074
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, March 14 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2075
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: Imperial citizenship documents (was Re: Psionic/jump drives)
Re: Mistakes were made
Back in the saddle
Re Zucchai Crystals.
Best rules system
Re: The Mire Run (both parts)
Re: Best rules system and T5
Re: Best rules system and T5
Re: TOP Grammar Guard
Corporate Names
Re: Jump Drives - LKW's thoughts
Re: John vs Clif vs Leroy...
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: Montana Class Battleships
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: ACQ
Solomani's rimward explorations
Solomani Rimward Territories
Re: Corporate Names
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 02:47:16 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
In mail you write:
> From: Peter Newman
>
>> I know, I wrote Post-bellum & when I sent it the spell
>> checker "corrected" it to Ante-bellum, sorry.
>
> Ach! Gotta love those spellcheckers!
>
> Last semester I wrote a paper, and a certain read of Denis Diderot's
> "Supplement to Bougainville's Voyage" was rather important in illustrating
> my point. My spellchecker corrected my paper for me and transformed all
> instances of the name Bougainville (a noted French navigator) to
> Bougainvillea (a tropical American woody vine named after him).
Excuse me, but do you mean to tell me that the current generation of
spellcheckers doesn't *ask* before applying "corrections"?
If so, I'm glad I'm still using "obsolete" software.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 03:15:58 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Imperial citizenship documents (was Re: Psionic/jump drives)
In mail you write:
>>From: "Douglas E. Berry"
>>Subject: Re: Psionic/jump drives
>
>>Could there be an anaolgy to British possessions during the
>>Empire? The person is till Indian, or South african or what
>>not, but his passport is British.
>
> That's a pretty good analogy, if not perfect. If you left the
> British Empire, you'd show your British passport at each border.
> If you were travelling within, say, India, you might not have
> to. The British had a lot more local involvement than the
> Imperium does (even replacing local judiciaries and legal
> systems), so they might have required internal passports. If I
> recall correctly, the wogs -- excuse me, the native peoples --
> had to have their papers in order to go from one Indian state to
> another. I don't know if people from Britain itself did.
>
> Regarding the idea that I somehow missed of defaulting to giving
> a child born in jumpspace the mother's citizenship, that may
> sometimes be the case. Some societies would find the father's
> citizenship paramount, of course, so conflicts could ensue. I'd
> put it down as another possible citizenship rule.
>
> By the way, Imperial citizenship is automatically granted to
> anyone who is a citizen of an Imperial member world, however
> that person got citizenship there (being born there, immigrating
> and meeting naturalization requirements, mother was a citizen,
> whatever). The Imperium is big enough that it doesn't care if a
> million Vargr decide to become citizens of Jesedipere -- or
> maybe even a billion. If they become a threat to the region,
> the Imperium will deal with them.
Well, last I heard, with regards to seagoing vessels, the child gets
the nationality of the country the ship is registered in. In addition,
depending on the laws of the countries involved, the child may also
be a citzen by birth of the father's country or the mother's country.
Given the right combo of parents and laws, a child could be a "natural
born citizen" of all *three* (ie world of ship's registry, mother's
world, and father's world).
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 03:21:31 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Mistakes were made
In mail you write:
> ObTrav: An adventure idea that'll probably work better on a
> lower-tech, high law/control level world...some clerk in the local
> Department of Corrections is editing a document, and lets a
> spell-checker loose without paying attention. Said machine
> transmutes the last name of an escaped, condemned criminal into the
> last name of one of the PCs (or one of their local friends/contacts).
> Said criminal looks vaguely like the PC, until you can get up close
> and compare pictures. Much merriment ensues.
Try the following *real world* occurences.
Due to a mixup an APB is issued for an innocent person. They straighten
it out with the local authorities, but get picked up several more times
in various places by police departments that neglected to take the APB
off their computer systems when the "oops, we made a mistake" message
went out. The person finally had to get a letter from the chief of
police and DA that had issued the original APB, along with phone
numbers and a record reference, so cops can call in and check out the
story.
This has happened *many* times. Most victims (or their families) sue
the police departments involved. BTW, it turns out that most police
departments don't have a means of *correcting* or deleting incorrect
APB and out-of-jurisdiction warrants!
It gets even worse when dealing with identity thieves. They'll have
false drivers licenses and social security cards, etc, all with some
unsuspecting person's name and other data on them. Oh yeah, I say
"false" id because it is often *real* ID, issued by the correct agency.
Just issued to an impostor.
Given comm lag in Traveller, this can only be worse. Identity theft
will be a serious crime, but *really* hard to stop.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:13:10 +1100
From: "Karen and Michael Hughes"
Subject: Back in the saddle
Well after a near ten year break - I'm GMing Traveller again.
I knew buying all these books was a good idea at the time.
Wish me luck.
PS Plot involves Empress Wave - HELP I only have a one para reference from
the web - anyone know more, reveal to me?
PPS First session went well. Using old Trav Journal freaky disease outbreak
scenario re-set on a heavy metal exraction plant (ie Oil Refinary platform
for a RW like-example) on a storm wracked (ie can't get off until break in
the weather) water world.
I is evil.
PS I don't want no Heavy Metal Extraction cannot be done from water crap OR
any supporting statements to back it up. I am science dumb, not proud of it
but too stubborn to change.
Leonard this means you.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 03:37:39 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Zucchai Crystals.
>>(3) Zuchai Crystals? Never heard of them.
>
>This is actually true for me. I know anbout Lanthanum that is required for
>ajump drive, but "Zuchai Crystals"?
>
A reference in a CT era product (although I know not which nor by whom)
included these.
They were made canon in DGP's Starship Operator's Manual. Which is now
decanonized due to Roger *SPIT* Sanger's misplaced greed.
What they do is discharge in the samae pattern as the charge was applied.
Unless you over charge them, then they explode. But they accelerate the
discharge by some factor (and thus the wattage increases, even though the
joules don't).
Actually, on that Roger side note, I found roger rather easy to deal with,
a wonderful ideas man. But, he lacks followthrough... Then again, I've only
dealt with him via email. But he keeps failing to pay ISP bills on time.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 04:05:01 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Best rules system
>1.How many versions of Traveller have been released at
>this point?
IMHO: 4.5
CT, MT, TNE, T4
GT isn't quite a full edition IMHO... it lacks similarity in CGen and other
areas.
Plus there are several other "Conversions" I don't count, like A WoD
conversion Mr. Newman and I worked up, then I reworked... a Hero System
conversion. Someone even did a CORPS conversion, and an AD&D conversion.
>2.Which game system does which version run on?
CT: CT-3LBB Only, CT-Lots of LBB's, CT+Striker/AHL, CT+DGPTasks
MT: MT, which essentially integrates LBB's Bk1-7, Striker, and DGP tasks.
TNE: GDW House System, in two of it's revisions. It's the (II Figure C)3rd
and 4th revisions to the mechanics of the GDW house system. And the
differences to those two are minor from each other. Earlier versions used
D10 (T2K 2d Ed Mk1) or d20 with fewer steps.
>3.What is the current version and game system in production?
CT is the only REAL traveller in print currently IMHO.
GT is a conversion, not a Real traveller, but it also is in print.
>4.What do you think are the strengths in your favorite version/
>system over the other ones in print?
My fav is MT. Beyond a doubt. The CT roots are evident, but it works
better. Properly run, no initiatve rolls are needed; only interrupts. The
integrated damage system works really well. The minis rules are an
extension of the basic rules, and are in the Ref's Companion. I find it
playable, and friendly.
>5.What do you think they could have improved on in your
>favoirte version/system? Does another version/system have
>these improvements? How hard would the conversion be to
>do?
The only bit I feel needed improvement was the starship-combat system,
which was FUBAR. So I wrote a fix for my own use, and which gets posted her
about every 2.5 years, and resides now on my web page.
>6.Any other notes that you would care to let me know regarding
>which system would probably be the best to purchase?
If you can find the older stuff, even the IG stuff, grab one of everything.
Start with a system you can find. CT, GT, both work.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 23:46:16 +1100
From: "AB"
Subject: Re: The Mire Run (both parts)
I note there's no mention of coming back...
Rysco Ptathis
Race: Darrian
Age: 107
Former Darrian Minister of Science and Industry,
Former Ambassador Plenipotentiary to the Third Imperium,
Industrialist,
Darrian Arts Patron.
Other Stats:
In general he is surprisingly strong and spry for an old man, well educated
and intelligent. He does not see or be aware of his surroundings as well as
he used to though. His social level is quite high and his material
resources immense. His features are ascetic, as are many Darrians, but his
age has made his face hard. He is witty and incisive in conversation,
diplomatic and alert to nuances and body language, however he is never warm
or relaxed himself.
He speaks fluent and precise Anglic as well as his native Darrian language.
When speaking Anglic he never uses contractions or slang and always answers
questions fully, like you are taught to do in language classes. (eg: In
response to the question "How are you?" the answer is "I am fine." not
"Fine.")
He is a scientist by early training, later inheriting his industrial
business, which he runs efficiently and effectively. He was a senior member
of the Darrian Government and was later appointed an Ambassador to the
Imperium.
Background/ Adventure Hook:
Rysco is a patron of Darrian Art - almost a religious figure in that
art-conscious culture. Rysco's dedication to and love of art is all
consuming. Unfortunately for Rysco he has not an artistic or romantic bone
in his body; his talent is artistic appreciation, not creation. Something
of a sociopath, a sculpture can move him to tears but he has little feeling
for his fellow sophonts.
Now Rysco has a new protege. A young Darrian artist/ engineer with a new
technique for developing Darrian Flame Sculpture, his experiments with
bonding the life energy from plants (the stuff early Solomani scientists saw
with Kirlian Photography) into the flame matrix have already taken the
Darrian art world by storm.
Rysco knows in his heart that if this is his chance to contribute something
really significant to Darrian Art culture. He realises he could bond an
animal life force into the matrix and produce something wonderful. Better
yet a human life force. But not Darrian - that would not be proper. What
about...Imperials? He has many contacts there from his time as an
ambassador in the Imperium, people who could steer some Imperial Citizens
his way. They'd be light years from Imperial Space, and in the territory of
a foreign government. Very hard to investigate the odd dissapearance.
He will need several bodies before he perfects his sculpture. Perhaps his
nice friends who run that Imperial Shipping line could help?
Playing Rysco:
Imagine a traditional fantasy elf - mystical, not quite in touch with
reality, desirous of harmony with nature. Now direct the harmony towards
the art world and give the elf the mind of a cold, calculating serial
killer. Raise him in an alien culture, give him a bucket load of money and
social priviledges to shield him from any sort of balancing reality, and to
make his bizzarest fantasies come true.
Rysco is truely brilliant and a formidable adversary. He should scare the
proverbial out of both the players and their characters.
- -AB
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 05:41:10 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: Best rules system and T5
- --- "William F. Hostman" wrote:
> >1.How many versions of Traveller have been released
> at
> >this point?
>
> IMHO: 4.5
> CT, MT, TNE, T4
> GT isn't quite a full edition IMHO...
Actually,GT is as much Traveller as the other
versions:the rules differences are huge,BUT:
What brings people to play a RPG?
The rules,or the setting (or with Gurps,the Settings)?
GtT published material which wasn't available for
aeons( TNE and T$ biggest fault was that you didn't
get anything about the mayor races,and MT wasn't good
in it,either.) and will bring completly new things
out,when they finished the somewhat reprint run of old
CT books ( High Guard as Star Mercs,Alien Modules etc)
Since T5 probably won't come out for a long time,it
will remain the only currently published T (with
exeption of BITS ,of course.(Of course,I can be
complete wrong with that,but remember:
there already is a very extensive T edition out
there,the biggest ever,since you can use the other
Gurps books,like Gurps Space,or even Aztecs,with it.
A NEW Player wilhave to learn the rules anyway:chances
are he chooses the System with FAR more supplements.
And we ? Be honest:You already have your favorite
T,for a long time.You probably will buy a few
SELECTED supplements,if at all,which is not enough for
a game to survive.That's basicly what I did with T4 (I
latter purchased the whole run at a discount,after it
already had been reduced in prize),who did the
same?Many ,I assume.)
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 05:41:30 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: Best rules system and T5
- --- "William F. Hostman" wrote:
> >1.How many versions of Traveller have been released
> at
> >this point?
>
> IMHO: 4.5
> CT, MT, TNE, T4
> GT isn't quite a full edition IMHO...
Actually,GT is as much Traveller as the other
versions:the rules differences are huge,BUT:
What brings people to play a RPG?
The rules,or the setting (or with Gurps,the Settings)?
GtT published material which wasn't available for
aeons( TNE and T$ biggest fault was that you didn't
get anything about the mayor races,and MT wasn't good
in it,either.) and will bring completly new things
out,when they finished the somewhat reprint run of old
CT books ( High Guard as Star Mercs,Alien Modules etc)
Since T5 probably won't come out for a long time,it
will remain the only currently published T (with
exeption of BITS ,of course.(Of course,I can be
complete wrong with that,but remember:
there already is a very extensive T edition out
there,the biggest ever,since you can use the other
Gurps books,like Gurps Space,or even Aztecs,with it.
A NEW Player wilhave to learn the rules anyway:chances
are he chooses the System with FAR more supplements.
And we ? Be honest:You already have your favorite
T,for a long time.You probably will buy a few
SELECTED supplements,if at all,which is not enough for
a game to survive.That's basicly what I did with T4 (I
latter purchased the whole run at a discount,after it
already had been reduced in prize),who did the
same?Many ,I assume.)
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 05:46:17 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: TOP Grammar Guard
- --- "Douglas E. Berry"
wrote:
>
> Þú ert vera breytilegur heimskur manneskja, og ÉG
> feel mikill sársauki
> fyrir þinn fátækur móðir fyrir líf með þú og þinn
> fíflaskapur fyrir svo
> margir ár
>
> There. Chock full of content!
Hardly.After all,it's from you, Mr Grammar Guard
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:46:25 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Corporate Names
In a message dated 00-03-13 12:19:26 EST, you write:
<< Sounds reasonable, though one could still ask "Why German, not Latin or old
High Vilani?" (A similar question should be asked for "Hortalez et Cie",
BTW.) >>
Some megacorps _were_ named in Vilani.
Hortalez et Cie actually existed. I thought it was a neat-sounding name, and
I wanted to see if anyone else got the reference.
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:46:24 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Jump Drives - LKW's thoughts
xrp@sierratel.com says:
>> << Ingo, I hate to break this to you, but as far as Jump Drive goes,
> the fix >> was in from the start.
>> Every culture that developed jump drive had a carefully-seeded set
> of almost-working, easy to copy examples in their home system. >>
>>
>> This is not in keeping with my feelings on the matter. YMMV.
>
> See, this is what I like about Traveller. One of the True Great Old
> Ones, the Progenitors, comes out to answer a question with a 'canon
> statement' ... that basically ends with " but whatever you like in
> YOUR game is fine."
Yeah, that's nice, but I'd like to hear Loren's thoughts on the topic too.
OK.
I don't like the notion that "Every culture that developed jump drive had a
carefully-seeded set of almost-working, easy to copy examples in their home
system." (using this quote purely as an example, nothing perjorative intended
towards it author). It is contrary to the original intent, and largely
unsupported by the literature (I say "largely" only because I'm not 100% sure
something didn't slip through).
Can't get much simpler than that.
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 04:33:26 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re: John vs Clif vs Leroy...
>At 5:36 -0500 13/3/00, "The Roc" wrote:
>> I hope Leroy did worse than that to
>>get the rep he seems to have??
>
>I seem to remember a veiled threat to kill a TML member? or was that Clif?
>
>Dom
ISTR that both used veiled threats. Cliff moreso, tho. Leroy, well, let's
just say it WAS subtle.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 05:33:46 -0800
From: "Jesse LaBranche"
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
> Excuse me, but do you mean to tell me that the current generation of
> spellcheckers doesn't *ask* before applying "corrections"?
> If so, I'm glad I'm still using "obsolete" software.
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
You can tell several spell-checkers to "automatically fix errors" and
it no longer prompts you, just does it- great for those who can't spell
at all and for most non-technical/informal writing.
Later.
Jesse.
vanquer@email.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:55:30 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: Montana Class Battleships
In a message dated 3/13/00 9:23:01 PM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
> Those hardy souls who create deck plans should note that crew
> lounges are located close to sickbays, thus enabling the medical staff
> to use the lounges as casualty collection points/triage centers during
> battles.
I thought it had to do with the Galley food.....
Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:05:27 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
From: Leonard Erickson
> Excuse me, but do you mean to tell me that the current generation of
> spellcheckers doesn't *ask* before applying "corrections"?
Yes you can set some of them that way. For the most part, I'm very
unfamiliar with spellcheckers. I don't really use them since I'm old
fashioned and usually look up a word before I make mistakes.
That was my *very first* experience with a spellchecker! :)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:23:36 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
From: Rupert Boleyn
> In truth I don't know what their stuff is like now, but back when
> Vampire first came out I read one of WW's published adventures,
> and the thing that most struch me was that the PC's were effectivly
> there solely to provide dialogue. It was so pre-set it wasn't funny.
Well, published adventures are not always in keeping with the game's focus.
Compare AD&D's Tomb of Horrors (light on monsters, extremely heavy on
thinking) with the general aesthetic of AD&D (heavier on monsters).
This is one of the big reasons I tend not to purchase published adventures.
> To make matters worse as far as I could tell from the rules that's
> how they expected the "Storyteller" to write their own adventures
> (oops - stories). The very name "Storyteller" pretty much sums it up
> for me.
I never really got that impression from White Wolf's materials, except in
the choice of an "official" name for the referee. Using "Storyteller"
instead of referee or GM just seemed like a gloss that they used to set
themselves apart from other RPGs.
> But not stronger than the biggest and firstest. D&D is even closer,
> and was for many years.
I personally don't see it. I do see frequent combats as being regular in
AD&D, but I don't see the same attention to the more martial elements of the
game world which I do see in Traveller.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 07:36:36 -0700 (MST)
From: Andrew Batishko
Subject: Re: ACQ
Ok, I'm just going to have to ask. What is ACQ, and where can I go to find
out more?
Andrew
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:05:59 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jason Kemp"
Subject: Solomani's rimward explorations
John Littleton wrote:
> This is very OT for this thread, but I have always wondered about Solomani
> expansion to Rimward. How far did/will/can they go? How big is the Solomani
> sphere? To me, this idea is as interesting as the Zho Core expeditions (actually
> more so). Please, any canon or non-canon responses.
According to DGP's Solomoni and Aslan alien module, the Solomani have
engaged in heavy exploration to rimward, sending a series of vessels
out beyond our own spiral arm, and toward the next spiral arm, the
Perseus Arm. The latest expeditions aren't expected back for another
few decades or something like that, and are covering about 7000
parsecs worth of distance.
Please note: these numbers are pulled from memory, and may be
corrected by other TMLers with resource material more immediately
available.
I think the reference was in preparation for DGP's plans to release a
supplement called Grand Explorations, which was going to focus on
explorations outside Known Space. I wonder if anything was ever
written for that supplement before R**** S***** brought DGP to its
demise...
In Service,
Jason
=============================
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer IV
(512)458-7111 ext. 1+3375
Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us
Most computer virus and email alerts are hoaxes. For more info, check out:
http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/culture/beliefs/urbanlegends/library/blhoax.htm
==============================
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:09:38 EST
From: JFZeigler@aol.com
Subject: Solomani Rimward Territories
In a message dated 3/14/00 3:07:57 AM Eastern Standard Time,
litljohn71@stlnet.com writes:
> This is very OT for this thread, but I have always wondered about Solomani
> expansion to Rimward. How far did/will/can they go? How big is the
> Solomani
> sphere? To me, this idea is as interesting as the Zho Core expeditions (
> actually
> more so). Please, any canon or non-canon responses.
Well, the canon maps have the Solomani Confederation with a fairly sharp
border, about 40 parsecs rimward from the Imperial border. I imagine that's
an oversimplification, though. We know that the Solomani are busy exploring
and colonizing in this direction, and that there aren't any (known) major
states to force a sharp border on them. So the Solomani presence probably
tapers off over dozens of parsecs beyond the notional border.
- ----------
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty
set of people who will take offense at it."
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 16:34:19 +0000
From: "Carlos Alos-Ferrer"
Subject: Re: Corporate Names
> From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
> Hortalez et Cie actually existed. I thought it was a neat-sounding name, and
> I wanted to see if anyone else got the reference.
> LKW
IIRC it was a dummy corp set up by Spain and France to fund that
revolution that americans started against the brits... how was it
called... oh, yes the american independence war. Which was a perfect
example of how the "internal affairs" of a colony (ObTrav: colony
world?) can be traced back to international (interstellar) politics
among the large powers.
Am I right?
Carlos, a spaniard.
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2075
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, March 14 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2076
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
re: The Mire Run
RE: Corporate Names
Re: The Sad Saga of an Obnoxiously Received Newbie
Dulinors folly and Strephons misery and Norris triumph
Re: Zuchai Crystals.
RE: ACQ
Re: ACQ
Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
Re: Modern Traveller
Re: Re : 'Parahumans'
Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab
re: ACQ
Re: Pre-MT stats for central imperial worlds?
Re: Subject: Re: Life at pH 0.05....
RE: This is it. Any time now.....
Re: Tokaji Azsu 6 petunias
Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
RE: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
Re: 'Parahumans' and Droyne
Re: The Sad Saga of an Obnoxiously Received Newbie
Re: Pre-MT stats for central imperial worlds?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 00:36:24 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: re: The Mire Run
>>I hereby present ... a Brief Guide to the Glisten-Mire Route (yes, Jeff, you
>>can put this on Freelance Traveller). It's part of my work-in-progress - the
>>Pilots Guide to District 268.
>
>Brilliant. Either submit it to SJG or BITS....
Or even better, post it to the TML! That way we can all enjoy it ;-)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 16:12:14 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter"
Subject: RE: Corporate Names
LKW wrote:
> Some megacorps _were_ named in Vilani.
>
> Hortalez et Cie actually existed. I thought it was a
> neat-sounding name, and
> I wanted to see if anyone else got the reference.
That was a dummy corporation set up by the French to fund anti-
British activities in the colonies. IIRC the French had just
lost a little European war to us (the Brits) and were looking for revenge.
The colonists were amenable to the inspired rallying
cry of "no taxes!" which political leaders of the day modified
into "no taxes without the vote". Unfortuneatly for the rebels
the "no taxes" idea ment that their army was often unfunded even
by their own side ... and thus the French (aka: Hortalez et Cie)
took up the slack (at least in the early days).
Thus the USA was born out of French pride and people's general
dislike of taxes. :-^
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 00:42:12 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Re: The Sad Saga of an Obnoxiously Received Newbie
At 00:05 14.03.00, you wrote:
>I apologize for the impreciseness of my comment.
>
>My comment was directed at the idea that Starfire was/is the greatest space
>combat game ever. If such hyperbole isn't worthy of a drug test then few
>things are.
Even better than Full Thrust? I like that game but if there is something
better...
Any opinions?
How much is it, where can one get it?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 00:55:57 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Dulinors folly and Strephons misery and Norris triumph
>On 12 Mar 00, at 14:22, Volker Greimann wrote:
> > At 03:30 13.03.00, you wrote:
> > > Bruce have pegged it IMO, but what is this "Black War Rebellion"?
> > Oh, just part of MT´s rebellion setting:
> > When it became apparent to Lucan, that a quick victory was no longer
> > possible, he turned to black war, meaning deep penetration raids into
> > enemy territory, destroying all industrial capacity and starports on
> > worlds passed and wreaking much additional havoc as well. Worlds that were
> > in danger of falling into enemies hands were turned economically and
> > militarily worthless as well. In short, just good times for the citizens
> > of the Imperium ...
>
>Also known as "If I can't have it, you can't either."
Just that. And, of course, Dulinor copied the tactic soon after Lucan
started it, proving to me, that he may have had better ideals, but was as
unscrupulous as Lucan in setting about to achieve them. As in: "I´ll build
the perfect Imperium, which cares more about the citizens, but first
there´s this war to win, and I´ll do EVERYTHING to win!"
This is why i liked Strephons way better. Fade into obscurity, slowly
giving up his claim, just to prevent further bloodshed. Sad, as well, as
his ideals could never triumph that way, but he stood by his ideals, and
didn´t just pay lip-service to them. IMHO, Strephon was the best leader of
the Rebellion (closely followed by the shrewd maneuvering of Norris, who
kept the peace in his worlds chose the only sensible path, take over, so
things wouldn´t degenerate into chaos and then STAY THE HECK OUT OF IT)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:15:58 -0600
From: Stormhound
Subject: Re: Zuchai Crystals.
From Adventure 4: Leviathan (copyright 1980, Game Designers' Workshop Inc.)
Zuchai Crystal: These crystals form the raw material for a vital focussing
element in jump drives. They are both naturally occurring and manufactured,
but the natural type appear to have longer operating lives. Natural crystals
in a raw state are worth about Cr 1,000 per kilogram.
- --
Stormhound
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 14:59:45 -0000
From: Matt Bond
Subject: RE: ACQ
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew Batishko [mailto:abatish@user1.cyberhighway.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 2:37 PM
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: Re: ACQ
>
>
> Ok, I'm just going to have to ask. What is ACQ, and where can
> I go to find
> out more?
>
> Andrew
ACQ => At Close Quarters.
FLGS => Friendly Local Game Store
ACQ is published by BITS (British Isles Traveller Support) and written
by Doug Berry & I think James Lindsay... though my copy is at home and I
may be mistaken about James.
It is basically an amalgam of the best bits of the Snapshot, AHL & MT
combat systems (errr... and penguins...), updated for the new
millennium. Using the BITS task system, it can be readily converted to
any of the Traveller incarnations, though it began life while T4 was
still in print, which influenced the initial design.
It is available for distribution to FLGS's from SJG in the US & BITS in
the UK (I believe) so try at either of those for mail-order, of pester
your FLGS to stock it. I'm certain they wont regret doing so.
Matt
"Go for your penguin, boy! I've an Adelie here with your name on it!"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 07:40:40
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: ACQ
At 07:36 AM 3/14/2000 -0700, you wrote:
>Ok, I'm just going to have to ask. What is ACQ, and where can I go to find
>out more?
ACQ is At Close Quarters, a variant combat system for T4 (but usable with
any version of Traveller) written by a roomful of penguins, err.. James
Lindsay and myself.
It is currently going throw the final tweaks, but will be available soon
from British Islands Traveller Support (BITS). Steve Jackson Games will
carry it in the US.
The game is based on the action/reaction cycle of combat. Most of the time
in the real world, winning a fight is a matter of getting the first shot
off. Being able to "jump the gun" is all important. ACQ uses Action Points
and allows players to attempt to interrupt each other's turns if they see a
chance to act.
Combat in ACQ is deadly. Which is, IMHO, the way it should be. Getting hit
in the chest by a 9mm slug is at the very least going to slow you down
considerably. At worst, you'll be dead before you hit the deck. So the game
rewards careful planning and thought. As Dom found out in the game he
described, those AP can run out at the most inopportune moments.
(For those wondering what happened, Dom's character tried to grab a grenade
to throw it back. Grabbing a loose object requires 1D AP. Dom rolled a six.
Of course he could have aborted the attempt for only 1 AP...)
Now, since several newer people have asked.. What's up with the penguins?
I like penguins. They're neat little critters. I have several on my desk.
So when I was writing the Thrown Weapons rules, I wanted to put up a few
examples of thrown weapons. So I wrote: "Thrown weapons include rocks,
grenades, knives and.."
I drew a blank. I knew there was something else I wanted to include there,
but couldn't recall what it was. So I glanced at my penguin calender and
typed "penguins." James took the joke from there.
So I can claim authorship of the *only* RPG combat rules in history to
include Aidlie and Emperor Penguins as available weapons.
- --
Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is that I am now a
perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague here is rapidly running out of
limbs!" - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:28:05
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
At 03:00 AM 3/14/2000 -0800, John Hamilton wrote (edited):
>Well, first of all, it's an ideology. That means that while
>you pay lip service to it, you ignore it whenever it
>suits you. See Nazi Germany and its bizzare "Aryan
>Science" (hollow Earth, for example.)
The Nazi hollow Earth theory was based on the rantings of Cyrus Teed, a
19th Century religious mystic/schizophrenic who insisted that we were in
fact living inside the hollow Earth, and that this was all there was to the
universe. The stars? "City lights and forest fires in Asia and Europe."
This bizarre idea lingered in the US until the early twenties, but a German
pilot named Peter Bender became a convert and introduced the idea to his
good buddy Herman Goering. Bender changed the theory slightly, making the
concept of an infinite universe "Jewish science."
As late as 1942, experiments were made at Rigen Island, trying to spot the
British Fleet by scanning the sky with powerful telescopes. Needless to
say, it didn't work. Bender and his family were sent to the death camps as
political prisoners.
Most of the so-called Aryan Science never had much popularity among the
main-stream Nazi leadership. Indeed, Himmler and Goering seemed to be the
biggest proponents of these things, with Hitler just communicating with
invisible spirits.
ObTrav: What silly theories might gain acceptance in the Imperium? We still
have Flat Earthers today? Perhaps a group on a HiPop World that doesn't
believe in the jump drive?
http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/fe-scidi.htm
>Secondly, the Solomani are at war. Perhaps the 3I thinks
>it is at peace; SolSec doesn't. And you need every edge you
>can get since the Vilani are traditionally behind
>in Biotech. Who could give up such an edge?
The situation along the Rim does resemble Cold War Europe, with the
Imperium cast in the role of the Warsaw Pact. The 3I does act as an
occupying force, controlling entire subsectors as buffers against Solomani
attacks.
The Vilani deficiency in biotech dates back the Ziru Sirka. After close to
two thousand years it has evened out a bit.
The people of the Third Imperium are (mainly) of mixed Vilani-Solomani
stock. The result of the Long Night.
>Third. The Solomani don't say they are perfect. In an
>universe with Droyne who can turn invisible, Ancients and so
>on, this would be too fanatic. They just say that they
>are better than the Vilani and the rest.
Many Solomani do claim to be better than anyone else. There are factions of
the Solomani Party that claim that the Solomani *were* the Ancients! The
ability of Droyne and Chirpers to psionicly blank themselves from people's
minds is not well known. It was a surprise to the characters in Adventure
2: Research Station Gamma. I'm not sure if it has been established that
casted Droyne can vanish. Could somebody with the correct AM check this? I
seem to recall that it was a juvenile ability, lost when the young were
accepted into a caste.
Anyway, any doctrine of superiority needs to be supreme. Nobody ever went
to war chanting "we're number TWO!" I deal with Nazis and other racists
every day in alt.conspiracy, and no matter what the circumstance, they
believe that the melanin level in their skin makes them the Lords of the
Earth. I doubt that SolSec would feel much different about pure genetic
lines.
- --
Duugirashir Irebamenagiin gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
Inquisitor Maximus, Reformed Canon Church of Sylea
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:35:24
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Modern Traveller
At 03:09 AM 3/14/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>About 2/3 of the book. The rest is a downsized reprint
>of the vehicle construction kit.
Actually, that was the first place the vehicle rules showed up. Still,
you're right about the amount of useful information.
This one is a "buy it if it shows up on the used shelf, or on sale" item.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:43:40
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Re : 'Parahumans'
At 07:56 PM 3/14/2000 +1100, you wrote:
>A question :-
>Anyone have any ideas on how the Solomani Movement, driven by racial
>'purity', tolerates the expertise of its biotechnologists?
According to the MegaTraveller Alien Vol. 2, Solomani and Aslan, page 28,
the Solomani once actually uplifted orangutangs and gibbons to full
sentience, and went on to gene-mod humans. This led to the Gene War. Very
little information is given, but the Gene War seemed to allow the Party to
reach the level of power it has today. The implication is that the war was
similar to the once waged against the genetic superwarriors in some
Niven/Pournelle stories.
I would think that humans are off limits beyonf the treatment of genetic
disorders.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:44:47
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab
At 07:57 PM 3/14/2000 +1100, you wrote:
>Doug Berry wrote :-
>> Anyone interested takes a world in the Spinward
>> Marches and details the hell out of it. First In would be preferred,
>> but any of the earlier systems will be acceptable.
>
>Great idea - the return of the RICE Papers ; does BtC form our baseline
>data?
Yes. I'm going to try and pull data from the older versions for things like
stellar data, but I'm not afraid to meddle..
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:56:01 -0500
From: "Smith, Walter"
Subject: re: ACQ
Douglas Berry wrote:
>So I can claim authorship of the *only* RPG combat rules in history to
>include Aidlie and Emperor Penguins as available weapons.
While this is true, I would like to note that the original _Champions_
rules from Hero Games, published some twenty years ago, did specifically
mention "struggling waterfowl" in their rules for throwing things at
people. Development of the concept was left to the referee, so this
stands as more a historical oddity than a true precursor of Penguin
Boy's landmark work.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:06:24 -0600 (CST)
From: Steven Bonneville
Subject: Re: Pre-MT stats for central imperial worlds?
Anthony Jackson wrote:
> When working with my mapping programs, I discover that an awful lot of the
> sector lists for the central imperium are MT-era, while the solomani rim is
> CT-era.
The original sector files were rough drafts posted by DGP to GEnie during the
late CT / early MT era. DGP later posted revised versions which added a few
sectors not covered and updated some that were CT to MT. The most obvious case
I've seen is the Lishun sector files, in which there was a lot of alteration
to things besides allegiance in the second draft. The original Trojan Reach
was reworked very massively, although it's a good source for pre-Rebellion
borders. The basic information was taken from what limited data was present
in _Atlas of the Imperium_, and UWPs fleshed out from there.
Some of the sectors were in better shape than others; Diaspora, in particular,
had problems. Some attempts at minor cleanup have been made; a bunch of files
with .NSC extensions were slightly altered and given sketchy spot checks by
various HIWG members.
In some cases, HIWG Sector Analysts detailed names for non HiPop worlds that
had none. Mike Mikesh added details for a couple of sectors near the Julian
Protectorate that were not part of _Atlas of the Imperium_. Some changes
that had seen print made their way into the files.
So there's even different *versions* of various sectors floating around.
Most of them are compatible, however, either adding names or just remarking
allegiance to match "1120" borders, more-or-less. In general, I think the
second DGP revision is the version most commonly floating around for most
files.
> Two things are notable as a result of this:
>
> There are a bunch of TL-G worlds in the central imperium. There are none on
> the Rim.
This was a deliberate artifact. The thought was that the region centered on
Massilia was the most advanced in the Imperium, and got a special bonus when
generated. The Rim isn't as technically advanced, but overall it has a much
higher population density and more uniform development. Some information on
the Solomani Rim War seemed to support the idea.
The interesting thing is that the average TL per capita for both Massilia and
for Sol is about 14, but I believe Sol's TL is more uniform while Massilia has
more extremes. (Average TL per world is lower than average TL per capita; the
HiPop worlds are also the most advanced.)
> An awful lot of high-tech worlds have rather low-grade starports. There
> are 91 Pop-A, TL-F/G worlds in the imperium. Only 48 have class-A starports.
> On the Rim, 12/12 have class-A starports.
I don't have my coherent set of files handy. I looked at a rough set of the
HIWG-edited versions, and couldn't find a TL-16 world that had less than a
type-B starport. Of 775 TL-15 worlds sampled, 495 were type-A, 245 type-B,
30 type-C, 3 type-D, and 2 type-E. (grep(1) and wc(1) are my friends.) Sol
tends to have more type-A ports than usual, though.
> Is there a way I can get a list of worlds which is all in the same era?
Through effort. I've done some of this for my own campaign, which is
currently moving from the Usdiki area toward the Core, circa 1111.
> Also, can anyone give me canonical GNP and conversion rate figures?
TCS and Striker (original) disagree on conversion rates. There's a bunch
of different ways to estimate GNP, using TCS, Striker, the World Tamers'
Handbook from TNE, and I think GURPS.
My work-in-progress Perl script to get some sector statistics gives Striker
based GNP estimates in the tens of thousands of TCr for most sectors, after
conversion to Imperial (TL15/PortA) credits.
Sector file trivia of the day: I've never seen any law-20 worlds, but the
HIWG files I've got handy give the "most repressive world in the Imperium"
award to Shudash (Ilelish 2817) at law-19 (K); Scaladon (Trojan Reach 2616)
forfeited a tie by being captured by the Aslan in the Rebellion.
-- Steve Bonneville
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:52:40
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Life at pH 0.05....
At 04:42 PM 3/13/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>You're obviously one of them soft-on-crime libber-alls, Bruce.
>I think they should be made to live in or on the river.
I recall the British trial of one of the death camp guards in the
mid-seventies. One of the witnesses spoke to him before his sentencing, and
told him (paraphrasing)
"You lost. Nothing more can be done to you than to point out that you not
only failed to destroy us, we came out stronger than ever. Now we have
Israel, we win wars. You? You and your compatriots are dead, hiding or
rotting in prisons. I want you to remember everyday of your life that you
failed."
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
There was once a time when the church controlled the government.
The laws of the church were the laws of the land. Belief in God
was strong, teachings of the church were rarely questioned.
This time was called The Dark Ages.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:05:25
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: RE: This is it. Any time now.....
At 05:14 PM 3/13/2000 -0000, you wrote:
>BTW Doug, I bought a copy of ACQ, so that should nett you a few cents
>
I've already been paid. This was a labor of love for me. Though James and I
do owe each of some Chicken McNuggets.
>We actually played a quick run through with Dom, but he was a bit rusty
>having not played it since playtesting a few months ago. Having now
>actually read it through at home it seems very good indeed, though I
>will probably write a house-rules hit location system for integrating
>with TNE. I've always like a good hit location system with variable
>armour on different locations [I even find Phoenix Command pretty
>straight-forward ].
It's not even in general release, and people are writing
house rules. I'm going to take it as a compliment that you think enough of
the system to try and make improvements.
Pheonix Command? I prefered being shot at by real people.
>The way I see it, I would use ACQ as it stands to see if you hit, then
>have tables representing the more common stances to roll on to find
>which exposed location was hit. i.e. if you were firing at a target who
>only has his head, shoulder and arm exposed [e.g. he's firing a pistol
>round a corner], you would have a penalty to hit but once it's been
>determined that you *have* hit then you roll to see which of the exposed
>locations you actually hit on a hit location table that only includes
>head, shoulder & arm.
I experimented with a few types of hit location charts, but they got way
too complicated, and took up far too much space. If you come up with a
workable set, let me know. Either BITS or I will be putting together an ACQ
extras page.
The increased damage rules on page 29 includes rules for hitting particular
areas of the body. We assume that you are aiming for center of mass, so
that a good hit will double or triple the damage done.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 18:12:41 +0100
From: "Mark Seemann"
Subject: Re: Tokaji Azsu 6 petunias
Sun, 12 Mar 2000 01:57:20 PST shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
> > Right now we are considering something along the lines of a Library Data
> > file of every LD entry in canon, acessible through JTAS.
>
> If you can spare the manpower, doing at least minmal hypertext linking
> would be *greatly* apreciated. Making the whole thing, links and
> downloadable (even if it was an extra fee) would be even better.
Although it's not complete, and it's been a while since I last did something with it, take a look here:
http://seemann.homepage.dk/library
Mark Seemann
mark@dk-online.dk (home)
marks@rainier.com (work)
20985193@note.sonofon.dk (SMS)
http://seemann.homepage.dk
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:20:04 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
> Anyway, any doctrine of superiority needs to be
> supreme. Nobody ever went
> to war chanting "we're number TWO!"
You are right with that.There is no doubt that the
Solos think they are the most evolved species
around.Still, there are sophonts who can do things
humans can't,like the Droyne,so there is no doubt a
chain of labs on Home dissecting ex-Ancients,trying to
replicate their feats.
BTW,what do the Solos think about the Zho's?
Telepathy and Teleportation is hardly a fact any
supremacist can ignore.
Does SolSec have some (secret?) Institutes
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 18:05:26 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: RE: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
At 15:44 13.03.00 -0000, Matt Bond wrote:
>However, I didn't realise that European Royalty also trace their lineage
>back to the Emperors of Japan. Neat Trick!
Oh, it's the other way round, of course.
:-)
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:35:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
john hamilton writes:
> BTW,what do the Solos think about the Zho's?
> Telepathy and Teleportation is hardly a fact any
> supremacist can ignore
Yes, but he can claim that its just a matter of training, and the psionics
rules generally support this contention.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:41:11 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: 'Parahumans' and Droyne
- --- "Douglas E. Berry"
wrote:
> At 03:00 AM 3 There are factions of
> the Solomani Party that claim that the Solomani
> *were* the Ancients!
Isn't there an adventure on JTAS ( theta nine
sleepers,I think)????? which mentions that:Archaeonts
,they call them.
The
> ability of Droyne and Chirpers to psionicly blank
> themselves from people's
> minds is not well known.
That means that some know.There are simply to many D.
out there to hide it.SolSec knows for sure.The Zho's
know (if perhaps only as legends).
It was a surprise to the
> characters in Adventure
> 2: Research Station Gamma. I'm not sure if it has
> been established that
> casted Droyne can vanish. Could somebody with the
> correct AM check this?
I must confess that I haven't the D. Alien Module,but
the conversions I've seen for TNE ( on BARD)
and for Traveller ( the somewhat outdated,if quite
good conversion by Summers) list Invisibility as a
ability of all Droyne.
I
> seem to recall that it was a juvenile ability, lost
> when the young were
> accepted into a caste.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:45:11 -0600
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)
Subject: Re: The Sad Saga of an Obnoxiously Received Newbie
( sheepish grin of somebody about to plug his own project to fellow list
members :)
Starfire has its own web page but i don't know what that is. If you're
looking for something Traveller-esque there is my humble little design.
Well, not that humble, it's 82 pages of adobe pdf after all.
http://www.crosswinds.net/~ehenry/dskies.htm
- -----Original Message-----
From: Volker Greimann
>At 00:05 14.03.00, you wrote:
>>My comment was directed at the idea that Starfire was/is the greatest
space
>>combat game ever. If such hyperbole isn't worthy of a drug test then few
>>things are.
>
>
>Even better than Full Thrust? I like that game but if there is something
>better...
>
>Any opinions?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:48:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: Pre-MT stats for central imperial worlds?
Steven Bonneville writes:
>
> The interesting thing is that the average TL per capita for both Massilia
> and for Sol is about 14, but I believe Sol's TL is more uniform while
> Massilia has more extremes. (Average TL per world is lower than average TL
> per capita; the HiPop worlds are also the most advanced.)
Actually, counting only imperial worlds, highest average is alpha crucis, but
there aren't too many worlds in that area.
>
> > An awful lot of high-tech worlds have rather low-grade starports. There
> > are 91 Pop-A, TL-F/G worlds in the imperium. Only 48 have class-A
> > starports. On the Rim, 12/12 have class-A starports.
>
> I don't have my coherent set of files handy. I looked at a rough set of
> the HIWG-edited versions, and couldn't find a TL-16 world that had less
> than a type-B starport. Of 775 TL-15 worlds sampled, 495 were type-A, 245
> type-B, 30 type-C, 3 type-D, and 2 type-E. (grep(1) and wc(1) are my
> friends.) Sol tends to have more type-A ports than usual, though.
A class B starport for a TL-G pop-A world is kind of low
A class E starport for a TL-F pop-A world is absurd (Weeven 1812 E110A9A-F,
in Alpha Crucis), though now I look I see it's solomani. Still, to be
totally honest, anything other than a class-A starport for a TL-F pop-A world
is low.
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2076
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, March 14 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2077
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Pre-MT stats for central imperial worlds?
re: ACQ
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
GDWHouseRules
Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab
Re: Jump Drives and Major Races
Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani and psionics, oh my!
Re Back in the saddle
Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
Re: MONTANA-class Battleship (T4/FF&S2) (longish)
Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab
re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are"
Re: Imperial citizenship documents
re: ACQ
Re: ACQ
re: Smuggling in the Imperium
Re: Darkover for Traveller
Re: Yanks are coming
Solomani Rimward expeditions
Re: Re Return of Cliff?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:48:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: Pre-MT stats for central imperial worlds?
Steven Bonneville writes:
>
> The interesting thing is that the average TL per capita for both Massilia
> and for Sol is about 14, but I believe Sol's TL is more uniform while
> Massilia has more extremes. (Average TL per world is lower than average TL
> per capita; the HiPop worlds are also the most advanced.)
Actually, counting only imperial worlds, highest average is alpha crucis, but
there aren't too many worlds in that area.
>
> > An awful lot of high-tech worlds have rather low-grade starports. There
> > are 91 Pop-A, TL-F/G worlds in the imperium. Only 48 have class-A
> > starports. On the Rim, 12/12 have class-A starports.
>
> I don't have my coherent set of files handy. I looked at a rough set of
> the HIWG-edited versions, and couldn't find a TL-16 world that had less
> than a type-B starport. Of 775 TL-15 worlds sampled, 495 were type-A, 245
> type-B, 30 type-C, 3 type-D, and 2 type-E. (grep(1) and wc(1) are my
> friends.) Sol tends to have more type-A ports than usual, though.
A class B starport for a TL-G pop-A world is kind of low
A class E starport for a TL-F pop-A world is absurd (Weeven 1812 E110A9A-F,
in Alpha Crucis), though now I look I see it's solomani. Still, to be
totally honest, anything other than a class-A starport for a TL-F pop-A world
is low.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:23:45
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: re: ACQ
At 11:56 AM 3/14/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry wrote:
>>So I can claim authorship of the *only* RPG combat rules in history to
>>include Aidlie and Emperor Penguins as available weapons.
>
>
>While this is true, I would like to note that the original _Champions_
>rules from Hero Games, published some twenty years ago,
But that's a dead game. :P
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:32:50
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
At 02:00 AM 3/13/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>Your ( that's "you are" for oldtimers)
No, "your" is a word in English that does not mean "you are." The proper
contraction for "you are" is "you're."
A complete failure to use the language correctly does nothing to impress
the readers of the list. In fact, it does the exact opposite. I'm not
immune. In fact, I've ben know to drop entire words, but I'm not arrogant
about my mistakes, and try to correct them.
ObTrav: The differences in Galangic from place to place. Similar to taking
Aussies to a baseball game just to watch them during the seventh inning
stretch.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:43:42
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
At 09:20 AM 3/14/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>Still, there are sophonts who can do things
>humans can't, like the Droyne, so there is no doubt a
>chain of labs on Home dissecting ex-Ancients, trying to
>replicate their feats.
Remember that in the 3I era, nobody knows that the droyne were the
Ancients. In fact, most Droyne are seen as rather pastorial, backwards
people, content to farm their little worlds. Even the Droyne don't
understand who they really are.
There were only 421 Ancients. Yaskodray and his twenty kids, each of whom
had 20 kids of their own. The common Droyne went on with their lives. The
fact that Grandfather went to the lengths of genetically engineering humans
and wolves in search of assistants speaks volumes about Yaskodray's opinion
of the Droyne as a whole.
>BTW, what do the Solos think about the Zhos?
>Telepathy and Teleportation is hardly a fact any
>supremacist can ignore.
>Does SolSec have some (secret?) Institutes
Probably not even that secret. The supressions were an Imperial event after
all. But given the nature of the Solomani Party and SolSec, I don't think
they really want that many telepaths running around. You might even find an
organization like Babylon 5's "Psi Corps" regualting and registering
psionic talents.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:19:41 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: GDWHouseRules
Folks,
I ran across a new mailing list devoted to the discussion of using
the GDW House Rules in any and all games yesterday. If you are
interested go take a look at...
http://www.onelist.com/group/GDWHouseRules
...not that we don't discuss them here from time to time either.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:52:25 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab
On 03/14/00 at 08:44 AM, "Douglas E. Berry" said:
>>> Anyone interested takes a world in the Spinward
>>> Marches and details the hell out of it. First In would be preferred,
>>> but any of the earlier systems will be acceptable.
>>Great idea - the return of the RICE Papers ; does BtC form our baseline
>>data?
>Yes. I'm going to try and pull data from the older versions for things
>like stellar data, but I'm not afraid to meddle..
IMO, the writeup should note the version that it applies to. There
are some differences among what BtC, SM, and RS have to say about
systems in the Marches. If we note that a writeup of Mora is based
on BtC material, or the one on Efate used SM data, then the reader
will be forewarned about similarities or differences between the
writeup and his own TU.
Make sense, or crackpot worrying?
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:56:32 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Jump Drives and Major Races
I'll have to check. Likely it came from the Solomani AM (not S&A, which
I don't have).
Matthew Bond wrote:
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bruce Johnson
>
> >_KNOWN_ ruins. As I said in my earlier post, Pluto has been redzoned
> >since before the Terrans first went to Barnard's Star...for a reason.
>
> And your source for this is...?
>
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:59:05 -0600
From: Stormhound
Subject: Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani and psionics, oh my!
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
> Anyway, any doctrine of superiority needs to be supreme. Nobody ever went
> to war chanting "we're number TWO!"
Well, someone tell that to Avis, but I have to admit that "We try harder!"
isn't a terribly inspirational battle-chant. (g)
john hamilton wrote:
> Does SolSec have some (secret?) Institutes
Fm: Ministry of Truth
Public Records Section
To: M. John Hamilton
re: Secret Psionic Institutes
Dear M. Hamilton,
We thank you for your recent inquiry into the existence of psionic
institutes. We have absolutely no records of any such organizations within
the Solomani Sphere, either current or past. There is no evidence to support
any theory that such might exist.
We do, however, wish to schedule an interview with you to discuss any
rumors or knowledge you may have on the subject. We regard the security of
the People to be of the utmost importance, and will act on any information we
may gather in this regard. To that end, please report ASAP in person to the
nearest SolSec substation, and refer the officer on duty to file number
FX-38948-401/Alpha so that you will be given the proper attention. We can
also send officers to your home or place of work if necessary to facilitate
this interview. Thank you for your cooperation in this matter.
M. Tepesh
Assistant Deputy Undersecretary to the 3rd Administrative Assistant, SolSec
MoT
- --
Stormhound
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 12:59:30 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re Back in the saddle
"Karen and Michael Hughes" types:
>Using old Trav Journal freaky disease outbreak
>scenario re-set on a heavy metal exraction plant
>I don't want no Heavy Metal Extraction cannot be done from water crap OR
>any supporting statements to back it up. I am science dumb, not proud of it
>but too stubborn to change.
Actually, it is quite possible. It's just really freakin' expensive at our
current
tech level due to very low concentrations on our seawater and the high energy
cost of extraction. Pick the right world/ocean and provide fusion power and
the only concerns are time per ton of extract and seperation of what you
extracted.
As setting help, your mid-ocean platform is going to be a steamy place, most
likely. And you thought the humidity was high already...
GC
PS: Someone else can help with the Empress Wave. I'm out of morning EMail
time...
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:04:23 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
- --- Anthony Jackson wrote:
> john hamilton writes:
>
> > BTW,what do the Solos think about the Zho's?
> > Telepathy and Teleportation is hardly a fact any
> > supremacist can ignore
>
> Yes, but he can claim that its just a matter of
> training, and the psionics
> rules generally support this contention.
This actually would mean that the Solos would build up
an infrastructure of Institutes,training a good (of
course only loyal) deal of the populace.Hmmmm.....
who in the 3I actually knows what's exactly going on
on the Solomani rimward border?
The 3I has already great problems with the Zho's,and
those guys are actually more or less satiesfied with
their sphere of influence.And they are giving only
nobles,intendants and very powerful non-nobles psionic
training.The Solos probably would give it to more or
less everyone not completly illoyal,giving them
perhaps even more Psi-troops than the Zhos.
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:06:36 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: MONTANA-class Battleship (T4/FF&S2) (longish)
Black ICE wrote:
>
> As I continue to work on the AuricTech Shipyards Web site upgrade, I
> find that I just _have_ to post a design or two to the TML (to tide you
> [and me!] over until things are ready).
>
> In that spirit, here's the MONTANA-class battleship, designed for
> service in the M:1100 setting (i.e., TL-15):
>
> **begin transmission**
>
> AuricTech Shipyards MONTANA-class Battleship
>
> Tons: 500,000 std (SL Medium Rounded Cylinder Hypersonic)
Visualizing a half a megaton of something comming in through the
atmosphere hypersonic.....
"Moommmmyyyyyyy!"
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:12:40 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
- --- "Douglas E. Berry"
wrote:
> >Does SolSec have some (secret?) Institutes
>
> Probably not even that secret. The supressions were
> an Imperial event after
> all. But given the nature of the Solomani Party and
> SolSec, I don't think
> they really want that many telepaths running around.
> You might even find an
> organization like Babylon 5's "Psi Corps" regualting
> and registering
> psionic talents.
This would make sense.the difference to B5 would be
that Psi in B5 means Telepathy,while the military most
useful Psi Powers in T. are Teleportation and
Teleperception;training soldiers in those would be not
much more dangerous than training them on Nuclear
weapons and ship ordonance (okay,they do not take the
nukes back home when they leave the service,as they do
with their brains).But you actually don't need so
many teleporters;only a few to infiltrate the power
plants and main computer centers and bomb them.
>
> --
>
> Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
>
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:11:24
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab
At 11:52 AM 3/14/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>IMO, the writeup should note the version that it applies to. There
>are some differences among what BtC, SM, and RS have to say about
>systems in the Marches. If we note that a writeup of Mora is based
>on BtC material, or the one on Efate used SM data, then the reader
>will be forewarned about similarities or differences between the
>writeup and his own TU.
Good point, but I want to make this as rules-light as possible. If someone
wants to do a world in a different era, that should be noted. For the
moment, and since it is the active setting, I was planning to use 1120 as a
baseline.
The simplest solution is to assume the BtC baseline. If you use something
different, just note it at the top.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:21:46 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are"
- --- "Douglas E. Berry"
wrote:
> At 02:00 AM 3/13/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>
> >Your ( that's "you are" for oldtimers)
There're is no reason.I'm just (occasionally) do it.
> No, "your" is a word in English that does not mean
> "you are." The proper
> contraction for "you are" is "you're."
I see it as a second-generation contraction of
"you're".
So it becomes "your".The next stage (probably around
the Vilani war) would be "yur".During the 3I,it will
be contracted to "yr".After that,the Psionic
Institutes will have won and everybody will be
comunicating with Telepathy anyway.
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:41:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: Imperial citizenship documents
>From: Steve Daniels
>Glenn Goffin wrote:
>> By the way, Imperial citizenship is automatically granted to
>> anyone who is a citizen of an Imperial member world, however
>> that person got citizenship there (being born there,
>>immigrating and meeting naturalization requirements, mother
>>was a citizen, whatever).
>
>You sure about that?
I should have said, "in my Traveller universe." I'm really not
sure about canon, although I believe that my view is consistent.
I'm afraid I've become so orthodox that I've stopped worrying
about whether my position is heresy or not.
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:38:34 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: re: ACQ
Doug Berry wrote:
>>While this is true, I would like to note that the original _Champions_
>>rules from Hero Games, published some twenty years ago,
>
>But that's a dead game. :P
Yup...just like Traveller.
Funny enough, Hero 5th edition is due out this summer/fall. And here
we are on TML, looking forward to which edition of Traveller?
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 12:54:09 -0600
From: Stormhound
Subject: Re: ACQ
Walter Smith wrote:
> Doug Berry wrote:
> >>While this is true, I would like to note that the original _Champions_
> >>rules from Hero Games, published some twenty years ago,
> >
> >But that's a dead game. :P
>
> Yup...just like Traveller.
>
> Funny enough, Hero 5th edition is due out this summer/fall. And here
> we are on TML, looking forward to which edition of Traveller?
The 6th. GT is version # 5. (g,d,rvvf)
- --
Stormhound
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:01:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: re: Smuggling in the Imperium
>From: "Katharine Whitchurch"
I generally agree with your analysis, but have a few comments.
Most of your post is deleted without indication.
>Now, assuming the Free Trader does the deal, picks up the stuff
>and sells it a couple of worlds over, where does the Imperium
>sit with all this ?
>
>Secondly, it could regard the worldlet as coming under the
>appropriate law of the local planetary government of the system
>
>Thirdly, it could consider the trade of goods stolen on one
>world and re-sold on another as affecting interstellar trade
The Imperium will only take this position if Imperial interests
are directly involved. Strategic minerals like lanthanum, for
example, would trigger Imperial involvement.
If the facility is making stuff under an Imperial contract,
i.e., it is selling the product to the Imperial government, then
everybody involved is involved in violations of Imperial law,
and the Imperium will intervene.
>In the second case, cue corporate lawyers stage right. Imperial
>extrality laws then come into play - unless under what
>circumstances can the Imperial authorities can extradite
>persons to the jurisdiction of memberworlds ?
In general, the Imperial does not get involved in extradition
among member worlds. Member worlds have treaties and
conventions regarding extradition. Some worlds extradite to
some others, some to none, some on a case by case basis.
The second case will involve litigation, probably both civil and
criminal, under the laws of the two worlds. It makes an
interesting analysis, but it might be a little challenge to make
it interesting playing. ("Informal discovery" might mean, go
steal the other side's internal, corporate documents and bring
them back for our lawyers to review.)
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:00:48 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Darkover for Traveller
On 13 Mar 00, at 12:04, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> PS: Try justifying how you got to Darkover when you're part Asian (or
> Black, for that matter, but that wasn't my prob...). Brown eyes are
> "animal eyes"... all the Darkovans were of Celtic descent. I got my Irish
> mama's skin but not her eyes (or her guts... ugh, milk!)
What about the Drylanders? I think that's what they're called. Weren't
they of Spanish decent? I seem to recall something like that from the
story of the original landing (which I can't remember the name of). I'd
be a lot clearer on this if it wasn't for the fact that I haven't read
any Darkover material for about 10 years.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:00:48 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Yanks are coming
On 13 Mar 00, at 7:23, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> In mail you write:
>
> > In a message dated 00-03-11 16:10:40 EST, you write:
> >
> > << > ROTFL
> > > That's America! Open for new citizens-to-be, anytime, anywhere.
> >
> > Not really. In that part of the country, a farm may be the "Johnson
> > place" to all the locals, even though the Johnsons sold it 70 years
> > ago.
> >
> > After a century or so, they'll get around to calling it by the name of
> > the "new" family... >>
> >
> > Or you will be given directions to "turn left at the barn" that burned
> > down in in 1956. Tell me this doesn't happen in rural areas everywhere .
> > . . not just in the USA.
>
> And this makes it very hard to tell the difference between "passive
> resistance" (baad directions) and normal behavior (cryptic directions)
> when navigating in captured territory.
>
> Which is why we developed GPS... :-)
And here was I thinking it was just because Yanks can't read maps.
I seem to recall the US Army discovering that 30% of its officers
couldn't navigate from maps, mostly because they couldn't relate map to
ground. Those who couldn't do so were evenly spread across the racial,
intelligence and educational spectra. This suggests a difficulty with
the concept of a map representing a piece of the real world, rather
than poor training, etc.
Ob Trav: Do some non-human spieces or human sub-speices have similar
holes in their thought processes (algebra, maybe)? Maybe this is why
some spieces invent the jump drive and other don't. Who needs
Grandfather when you can blame evolution?
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:00:48 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Solomani Rimward expeditions
On 14 Mar 00, at 2:07, John Littleton wrote:
> Glenn Goffin wrote:
> >To shake the apathy, I have a suggestion: The TML 2000
> >Landgrab. Anyone interested takes a world in the Spinward
> >Marches and details the hell out of it.
>
> This is very OT for this thread, but I have always wondered about Solomani
> expansion to Rimward. How far did/will/can they go? How big is the
> Solomani sphere? To me, this idea is as interesting as the Zho Core
> expeditions (actually more so). Please, any canon or non-canon responses.
Well the map in Rats and Cats shows much the same as the one in MT - a
rough circle about two sectors in diameter. It also shows a scattering
of small states on the Solomani's rimward edge - a mixture of Aslan and
Human, with the Aslan tending to the Spinward side, and the Humans the
Trailing side. Unfortunately I don't have Rats and Cats, so I can't
tell you what the rext says, but last time I asked the list I was told
that some are mentioned.
Personally I'd be very surpirsed if they don't actually have a number
of distant "independant" colonies dating from the Rim War period. IMO
the Solomani would've done what the Terrans did when faced with the
Vilani and taken out some insurance. If I ever get around to doing
something with the Solomani, I'm going to have it that what you see on
the maps is what the IISS was informed of when the (then) Terrans were
incorporated into the 3rd Imperium, and that they actually had good
survey data for a much larger area.
BTW contrary to an opinion posted here a few weeks ago (I forget who it
belongs to), IMO the Terrans incorporation into the 3I wasn't forced,
but was in the nature of an amalgamation. This explains the Terran's
power in the Imperial court - it was part of the deal (which probably
also included an Imperial spouse, etc). This also helps explain why
they were so pissed off at their influence being broken - the Impie's
had reneged on their side of the deal.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:00:48 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Re Return of Cliff?
On 13 Mar 00, at 1:58, john hamilton wrote:
>
>
> --- Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 11 Mar 00, at 3:12, john hamilton wrote:
> >
> > > everything.It seems that's your problem.You simply
> > > can't adapt to modern things,which is double funny
> > in
> > > a List about SF.
>
> >
> > I seem to have adapted to the etiquette required by
> > the new medium
>
> Well,not really.And even then,etiquette is only of
> secondary relevance to content.
Well, let's see. I seem to be able to post to all the mailing lists I'm
on without stirring up the natives unintentionally. I've also worked
out what that long, bar-like, key at the bottom of my keyboard is for
and, unlike some, I even manage to use it after full stops and commas.
I'd also like to point out that "secondary relevance" does not mean "of
no importance", and would place etiquette above everything except
content in your order of things. That being the case why aren't you
more interested in practising good net etiquette? And where is this
wonderful all important content? Since your first post (which had a
good deal, but provoked a poor response because of your poor etiquette)
I've seen very little content worth spit.
I suggest you address the critism your ideas received, rather than
assaulting the critics. Without critics you have no useful feedback,
and by entering into a discussion with those who disagree with you
everyone might actually learn sonething new. Heck, you might even
convert someone. Your present behaviour won't be doing that in a big
hurry.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2077
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, March 14 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2078
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
Re: Re : 'Parahumans'
Re: Back in the saddle
Re: Pre-MT stats for central imperial worlds?
Re: Imperial citizenship documents
RE: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are"
Re: Yanks are coming
Penguin Boy Screen Saver
Re: The Mire Run (both parts)
Solomani Psi Corps
re: Corporate Names
Re: Jump Drives - LKW's thoughts
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: Pre-MT stats for central imperial worlds?
Re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are" [sic]
Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are" [sic]
Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
We're Number Two! (was Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani and psionics, oh my!)
Vs: Vs: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:08:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
>From: john hamilton
>Third,the Solos don't say they are perfect,(in an universe with
>invisible-turning Droyne,Ancients and so on,this would be too
>fanatic),they just say that they are better than the Vilani and
>the rest.
We may not be perfect, but Heaven knows we try.
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:50:46 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re : 'Parahumans'
In mail you write:
> A question :-
> Anyone have any ideas on how the Solomani Movement, driven by racial
> 'purity', tolerates the expertise of its biotechnologists?
Well, the advanced biotech makes it easier to *detect* "impure" genes.
And, perhaps, rather than kill those possessing them, they merely edit
out the impurities.
Alternatively, most "master race" types seem quite willing to have an
"underclass" to serve them, or even merely serve as someone to look
down on. Maybe that's what their biotech does.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:44:10 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Back in the saddle
In mail you write:
> PPS First session went well. Using old Trav Journal freaky disease outbreak
> scenario re-set on a heavy metal exraction plant (ie Oil Refinary platform
> for a RW like-example) on a storm wracked (ie can't get off until break in
> the weather) water world.
>
> I is evil.
>
> PS I don't want no Heavy Metal Extraction cannot be done from water crap OR
> any supporting statements to back it up. I am science dumb, not proud of it
> but too stubborn to change.
>
> Leonard this means you.
Would you be interested in some speculation about what sort of
conditions on-world would *make* heavy metal extraction from seawater
more practical? Some of the possibilities would make for interesting
background and hazards.
On the other hand, they might also contradict stuff you've already told
players...
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 14:07:12 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: Re: Pre-MT stats for central imperial worlds?
Anthony Jackson wrote:
>A class E starport for a TL-F pop-A world is absurd (Weeven 1812
>E110A9A-F, in Alpha Crucis), though now I look I see it's solomani.
"Absurd", of course, means an explanation is needed.
Weeven...a tiny, almost airless rock, home to a high-tech population in the
tens of billions...got it. Weeven's Impersonal Bureacracy and high law level
have led to local unrest amongst the starport workers, with support from
factions in the Belter communities. In a particularly violent confrontation that
occurred just before the last survey, terrorists supporting anti-government
forces managed to cripple the local processing plants that had been
providing starship-grade fuel. Weeven's economy is still in dire danger, as
other terrorist attacks managed to effectively wreck fully 90% of local
starport services. Every single starport facility suffered significant damage,
and some orbital starport facilities were damaged to the point of
abandonment. The timing of these attacks, set to happen days before the
arrival of the Solomani Survey representatives, was no accident.
Surviving starports were nationalized to support government operations,
which are extensive in this system - the majority of the population lives
off the mainworld.
The current situation on Weeven: tracking and traffic control are
equivalent to a Class C starport, with frequent outages due to sabotage.
SDB presence and deep-space rescue capabilities are equivalent to
what one would expect from a class B (or possibly A) starport, but
most class A, B and C starport services (such as fuel, repair and
annual inspections) are generally restricted to government vessels.
Since the terrorist have been almost entirely successful at avoiding loss
of life, Weeven has avoided obtaining an Amber zone travel classification.
This could literally change overnight if the government's frustration
with dissidents continues to grow.
Law level A represents what an "average" visitor can expect to see.
Certain areas around starport control buildings are law level C+, and
anyone who does come to the attention of the local authorities - say,
by wanting to travel to certain suspect areas of the nearby asteroid
belt - will feel as if local law level is much higher than A.
Just some guesswork...what do you think?
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:17:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: Imperial citizenship documents
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Subject: Re: Imperial citizenship documents
>Well, last I heard, with regards to seagoing vessels, the child
>gets the nationality of the country the ship is registered in.
That's yet another possible outcome, depending on the law of the
place of registry and treaties among the various powers. The
Imperium is the registering location for ships operating
primarily within the Imperium, so this issue occurs when an
Imperial ship is outside the Imperium.
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:17:30 -0800
From: "Thing"
Subject: RE: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
On Tuesday, March 14, 2000 9:44 AM
Douglas E. Berry said,
> The
> fact that Grandfather went to the lengths of genetically engineering
humans
> and wolves in search of assistants speaks volumes about Yaskodray's
opinion
> of the Droyne as a whole.
And then there is the later events where Grandfather
replaced/altered/reprogrammed Cleon on his grand tour and caused him to
form the 3I. Grandfather needed an institution that instilled a strong
sense of loyalty and honor in mankind so that he could possibly trust
them as assistants again. A sure sign of Humaniti's progress.
G.D.D.
Thing under the stairs,
Minion of Shechemist & GothBunny,
Grand Master of the Electron Flow.
==================================
"The optimist thinks that this is the best of all possible worlds, and
the pessimist knows it." - J. Robert Oppenheimer
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:20:50
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are"
At 10:21 AM 3/14/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>I see it as a second-generation contraction of
>"you're". So it becomes "your".
Alas, the rest of the people on this list do not see it that way. In fact,
I've never seen "your" used in that manner anywhere on Earth.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:22:32
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Yanks are coming
At 08:00 AM 3/15/2000 +1300, you wrote:
>I seem to recall the US Army discovering that 30% of its officers
>couldn't navigate from maps, mostly because they couldn't relate map to
>ground.
Not just officers... 1/3 of all people just cannot use a map to navigate.
We run into this when hiring at SuperShuttle. People just cannot relate the
lines to the streets.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 14:17:41 -0500
From: "Sword-Worlder"
Subject: Penguin Boy Screen Saver
TODAY'S SCREEN SAVER
Penguin Party Screensaver
See penguins party at the South Pole
http://cgi.zdnet.com/slink?26060:1204847
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 12:29:05 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: The Mire Run (both parts)
Katharine Whitchurch wrote:
>
> Tarkine : A 2 day tour in Cessnas on a planet that is *this* far away from a
> shooting war.
Heh heh heh. "A threee hour tour... a threee hour tour!"
Hans Thorskiirsen
Hans is the very model of the handsome, dashing Sword Worlder bush pilot
that they put on the brochures.
He is also the one they try to keep away from the tourists....
The old adage about the lack of old, bold pilots doesn't seem to apply.
To him, that is...there have been a few of his passengers who have
failed to come back, but he's sure it was _their_ fault, they simply
weren't tough enough to survive the fifteen day hike back out of the
mountains when the plane broke.
(note, it is always the _plane's_ fault, it is only due to his skill
that they're alive at all, right?)
In truth he is a Superb pilot, who hasn't yet allowed advancing age (he
is 38) to slow his reflexes, or absolute fearlessness.
He's also in high demand by the adrenaline-starved adven-tourists who
come his way. He has a knack for finding the greatest snow, the best
trout streams, the most breathtaking views, mostly because no other
pilot in his right mind will fly there, much less try to _land_ there!
His habit of running through aircraft (both parts and entire airplanes)
have kept him in debt. He's in serious hock to some rather ruthless
locals.
On the trip that the PC's arrange, a visit to a remote alpine lake for
camping and fishing, they are accompanied by two locals with several
crates.
Hans tells the PC's that he's doing some friends a favor, running them
and some urgently needed supplies to their backcountry homesteads.
1) All is as advertised. (YAH riiiight ;-) The locals, quiet, and
reserved at first, open up during the flight and entertain the
passengers with wild tales of life in the wilderness. They end by
inviting them to stay at their homesteads for the weekend, and a
wonderful time is had by all.
2) All is as advertised, but the landing in the meadow near their
homestead goes badly. The plane catches a hole in the 'runway', flips
and is badly damaged, as may be the occupants. Depending on what the
locals have in their camp, the aircraft may be repairable to _mostly_
flying condition or everyone may have to hike out, perhaps with wounded
in tow.
3) Of course, the crates contain guns, and Hans is being forced to run
them to pay off some of his debt. The landing site has friendlies
present, but they argue whether the PC's should be released, killed, or
held for ransom.
4) Of course, the crates contain guns, and Hans is being forced to run
them to pay off some of his debt. En route to the landing site, Hans
plane comes under fire from governmental anti-guerilla forces. The plane
is shot down. The aircraft may be repairable to _mostly_ flying
condition or everyone may have to hike out, perhaps with wounded in tow.
The anti-guerilla forces will be pursuing them as well.
5) Of course, the crates contain guns, and Hans is being forced to run
them to pay off some of his debt. Enemy forces (at the referee's option,
either government forces or a rival guerilla group) have staked out the
landing site in ambush. A firefight breaks out. At the Referees option
the plane may or may not be shot down or escape. If it escapes, it is
damaged and a forced landing takes place. Then everyone has to hike out.
Alternatively, the PC's are captured along with Hans, and the locals,
leading to arguments as to whether they should be arrested, simply held
prisoner, killed out of hand, or ransomed.
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 14:28:19 -0500
From: "Chris Dixon"
Subject: Solomani Psi Corps
>This would make sense.the difference to B5 would be that Psi in B5
means Telepathy,while the military most
>useful Psi Powers in T. are Teleportation and Teleperception;training
soldiers in those would be not
>much more dangerous than training them on Nuclear weapons and ship
ordonance (okay,they do not take the
>nukes back home when they leave the service,as they do with their
brains).
Uhh , who ever mentioned anything about getting the option to leave the
service "Citizen".
:-O
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:30:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: re: Corporate Names
>From: GDWGAMES@aol.comSubject: Corporate Names
>
>Hortalez et Cie actually existed. I thought it was a neat-
>sounding name, and I wanted to see if anyone else got the
>reference.
I think we found Hortalez et Cie. on the CIA's web site, which
mentioned it as part of our country's earliest covert ops/money
laundering/revolution financing scheme.
Ling Standard Products, LIC, is, I assume, an homage to
Ling-Temco-Vought, a military aviation manufacturer that
flourished after World War II.
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:34:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: Jump Drives - LKW's thoughts
>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
>I don't like the notion that "Every culture that developed jump
>drive had a carefully-seeded set of almost-working, easy to
>copy examples in their home system." (using this quote purely
>as an example, nothing perjorative intended towards it author).
>It is contrary to the original intent, and largely unsupported
>by the literature (I say "largely" only because I'm not 100%
>sure something didn't slip through).
It seems to me that minor races might use the "carefully seeded"
idea as propaganda, saying, in effect, "we're just as good as
the major races; they only developed jump drive first because
the game was rigged."
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:48:55 -0900
From: Peter Newman
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote
> > From: Peter Newman
> >
> >> I know, I wrote Post-bellum & when I sent it the spell
> >> checker "corrected" it to Ante-bellum, sorry.
> >
> > Ach! Gotta love those spellcheckers!
> >
> > Last semester I wrote a paper, and a certain read of Denis Diderot's
> > "Supplement to Bougainville's Voyage" was rather important in illustrating
> > my point. My spellchecker corrected my paper for me and transformed all
> > instances of the name Bougainville (a noted French navigator) to
> > Bougainvillea (a tropical American woody vine named after him).
> Excuse me, but do you mean to tell me that the current generation of
> spellcheckers doesn't *ask* before applying "corrections"?
I was using Netscape 4.5 for the Mac. Netscape does a spell
check automatically when you press "Send". Theoretically it
requires and asks for your approval [click "Replace" to replace
your word with their word] for each correction. The problem
is that the "Send" function has a hair trigger.
If you accidentally touched the "Send" button for more than
about a quarter of a second it thinks you have clicked twice,
once to "Send" and once to "Replace" the first "error". Since
it did not find another "error" in my post it went ahead and
sent the post after applying the "correction" before I could
uncorrect it.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 14:03:59 -0600 (CST)
From: Steven Bonneville
Subject: Re: Pre-MT stats for central imperial worlds?
Anthony Jackson wrote:
> > I don't have my coherent set of files handy. I looked at a rough set of
> > the HIWG-edited versions, and couldn't find a TL-16 world that had less
> > than a type-B starport. Of 775 TL-15 worlds sampled, 495 were type-A, 245
> > type-B, 30 type-C, 3 type-D, and 2 type-E. (grep(1) and wc(1) are my
> > friends.) Sol tends to have more type-A ports than usual, though.
>
> A class B starport for a TL-G pop-A world is kind of low
> A class E starport for a TL-F pop-A world is absurd (Weeven 1812 E110A9A-F,
> in Alpha Crucis), though now I look I see it's solomani. Still, to be
> totally honest, anything other than a class-A starport for a TL-F pop-A world
> is low.
Oddly, Alpha Crucis was one of the files I didn't have handy. The two TL-15
E-ports I got were both in the Solomani Rim, actually (0924 and 1318), with
populations in the tens. Still, we're talking a handful of examples out of
hundreds. On the subset of HIWG sector files I had handy, 77 worlds were at
TL-16; 57 port-A and 20 port-B. I don't think this is beyond the realm of
the reasonable.
-- Steve Bonneville
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 12:05:34 -0800
From: Russell Bornschlegel
Subject: Re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are" [sic]
john hamilton wrote:
> - --- "Douglas E. Berry"
> wrote:
> > At 02:00 AM 3/13/2000 -0800, you wrote:
> >
> > >Your ( that's "you are" for oldtimers)
> There're is no reason.I'm just (occasionally) do it.
Tell me this isn't a troll. Come on. I dare you.
- -Russell B
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 12:15:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
>From: john hamilton
>There is no doubt that the Solos think they are the most
>evolved species around.
>BTW,what do the Solos think about the Zho's?
>Telepathy and Teleportation is hardly a fact anysupremacist can
>ignore. Does SolSec have some (secret?) Institutes
I think that the Solomani orthodox view is that psionics is a
Jewish -- excuse me, Droyne -- ability and that the Zhodani have
dirtied their heritage by learning it. The Solomani
conservative view might be that the Zhodani aren't Homo sapiens
sapiens, but some other intelligent primate taken from Terra
300,000 years ago. The Solomani tend to view all of the other
human races as non-H. sapiens sapiens. (Advocates of the
Solomani reform view should report to SolSec for reeducation.)
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 14:16:03 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
On 03/14/00 at 05:33 AM, "Jesse LaBranche" said:
>> Excuse me, but do you mean to tell me that the current generation of
>> spellcheckers doesn't *ask* before applying "corrections"?
>> If so, I'm glad I'm still using "obsolete" software.
>> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>> shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
>> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
> You can tell several spell-checkers to "automatically fix errors" and
>it no longer prompts you, just does it- great for those who can't spell
>at all and for most non-technical/informal writing.
Ack! NO!!!!
IMO, that's great for those who CAN spell well and type even better
so almost never make mistakes. For those of us who make lots of
typos and mistakes in spelling automatic spell checking is a
terrible choice. In fact, for us manually proofreading is still a
requirement, an eye no of want I speak, two!
Thu following wsw run thrum a sepulchers automatically an straight
form me to yuan. What I really wanted to type was, "The following
was run through a spellchecker automatically and straight from me to
you." You can see the hash the spellchecker made of it.
Eris,
notorious bad speller!
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 14:21:14 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
On 03/14/00 at 09:05 AM, "Chris Seamans" said:
>> Excuse me, but do you mean to tell me that the current generation of
>> spellcheckers doesn't *ask* before applying "corrections"?
>Yes you can set some of them that way. For the most part, I'm very
>unfamiliar with spellcheckers. I don't really use them since I'm old
>fashioned and usually look up a word before I make mistakes.
>That was my *very first* experience with a spellchecker! :)
Great Gnu! Chris you're my hero! I made ten typos just trying to
type this post. I *need* to spell check everything I write and
that's even after I manually backspace and fix everything I notice
while typing.
Eris,
and I've got a dictionary next to my computer that I use a lot.
Problems is when I go to look up a word: one, I'm often so far
off I can't *find* it in the dictionary; two, I get so
interested in the definitions of the other words around the one
I'm looking up it takes me 10 minutes to discover I can't find
it...see, one.
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 12:26:30
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are" [sic]
At 12:05 PM 3/14/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>john hamilton wrote:
>> - --- "Douglas E. Berry"
>> wrote:
>> > At 02:00 AM 3/13/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>> >
>> > >Your ( that's "you are" for oldtimers)
>> There're is no reason.I'm just (occasionally) do it.
>
>Tell me this isn't a troll. Come on. I dare you.
He does seem to be swinging back that way. sad, because he actual seemed to
make a few good points. I've just decided that any of his posts that I
can't decipher with the first reading aren't worth my time.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:32:39 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>
> There were only 421 Ancients. Yaskodray and his twenty kids, each of whom
> had 20 kids of their own. The common Droyne went on with their lives. The
> fact that Grandfather went to the lengths of genetically engineering humans
> and wolves in search of assistants speaks volumes about Yaskodray's opinion
> of the Droyne as a whole.
Not necessarily. It may well have been he was avoiding the creation of
an entire _species_ of him...
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 12:33:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: We're Number Two! (was Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani and psionics, oh my!)
>From: Stormhound
>Subject: Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani and psionics, oh my!
>"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
>> Anyway, any doctrine of superiority needs to be supreme.
>>Nobody ever went to war chanting "we're number TWO!"
>
> Well, someone tell that to Avis, but I have to admit that
>"We try harder!" isn't a terribly inspirational battle-chant.
You may not recall that, at the time Avis used "we're the second
biggest car rental company, so we try harder," Hertz was firmly
fixed as number one, and the real competition was between Avis
and another company. It's a measure of Avis's success that I
can't even remember which company it was.
Ling Electronics LIC: We're only the second largest
manufacturer of electronic equipment in the Imperium, so we try
harder (harder than Makhidkarun Electronic Equipment LIC, that
is, but neither of us can unseat Naasirka for number one yet).
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 21:16:50 +0200
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jussi_Kenkkil=E4?=
Subject: Vs: Vs: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
>
> Sounds reasonable, though one could still ask "Why German, not Latin or old
> High Vilani?" (A similar question should be asked for "Hortalez et Cie", BTW.)
>
Because at some time it's german or spanish or some other "forgotten language of our cultural ancestors" that is in vogue. These things aren't logical IRL and therefore can be illogical in fictional worlds.
- -J2K
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:37:51 -0900
From: Peter Newman
Subject: Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
> "Douglas E. Berry"
> >BTW, what do the Solos think about the Zhos?
> >Telepathy and Teleportation is hardly a fact any
> >supremacist can ignore.
> >Does SolSec have some (secret?) Institutes
> Probably not even that secret. The supressions were an Imperial event after
> all.
When the Psionics suppressions occurred the Solomani sphere
was _part_ of the Imperium, albeit part of the Solomani
Autonomous region.
The Psionics suppressions occurred between 800-826 [CT Sup
11 p. 15].
The Solomani Autonomous Region officially existed between
704 and 940. [CT Sup 11 p. 19]
The evidence suggests that the Psionics suppressions
occurred in the Autonomous Region. _All_ 65 Psionic Institutions
[including any in the Solomani Region] with Imperial Charters
had said charters suppressed and then revoked. Two of the
revocation orders were themselves revoked and two [top secret]
chartered Psionic Institutions exist to this day - One at
Wypoc/Spinward Marches and one at Terra/Sol. [Ct Sup 11 p. 15].
Terra/Sol was a very important member of the Solomani
Confederation between 871 and 1002. While a Psionics Institution
_could_ have remained secret from the Solomani all that time;
it seems more likely that some of the Psionicists from that
institution were loyal to the Solomani cause and went over to
the Solomani cause, revealing the institutions existence.
Thus the Solomani Sphere had at least one working Psionic
Institution. IMTU they copied it and several more, including
one at their capitol Home/Aldeberan. When the Imperium captured
Terra they captured the Terran Psionics Institution.
> But given the nature of the Solomani Party and SolSec, I don't think
> they really want that many telepaths running around. You might even find an
> organization like Babylon 5's "Psi Corps" regualting and registering
> psionic talents.
IMTU Psionics in the Solomani Sphere is a state secret because
of widespread popular distrust of Psionics dating back to
the Psionics Suppressions. I just don't see SolSec letting
anyone but SolSec have Psionics.
IMTU SolSec has a secret branch somewhat similar to B5's PsiCop's.
[Not PsiCorp as a whole with its nambly pambly don't scan normals
rules.] They actually act in the "ethically challenged" ways
that Imperial propaganda says the Tavrchedl does. Indeed
these Solomani Operatives will sometimes engage in state sponsored
Psionic terrorism within the Imperium. Any evidence of their
existence can be blamed on the Zhodani. A war between the Consulate
and the Imperium would provide an excellent opportunity for the
Sphere [enter Solomani mode] Home of all true humans to break
the dictatorial rule of the treacherous Imperial Mud Men and free
holy mother Terra from their perfidious grasp.
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2078
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, March 14 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2079
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: We're Number Two!
RE: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
Re: Things that make you go... Hummm!
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: Grand Explorations
Re: Re : 'Parahumans'
Re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are" [sic]
Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
Re: ACQ
Re: Pre-MT stats for central imperial worlds?
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab
Please keep it the playground...
Re: ACQ
re: CSC was Re: Modern Traveller
CSC was Re: Modern Traveller
re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are"
Re: Modern Traveller
Gashikan emperors
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 14:57:44 -0600
From: Stormhound
Subject: Re: We're Number Two!
Glenn Goffin wrote:
> You may not recall that, at the time Avis used "we're the second
> biggest car rental company, so we try harder," Hertz was firmly
> fixed as number one, and the real competition was between Avis
> and another company. It's a measure of Avis's success that I
> can't even remember which company it was.
Actually, I do recall it. I'm 36. But I don't recall the other company,
since I wasn't old enough to be a consumer back then. (g)
> Ling Electronics LIC: We're only the second largest
> manufacturer of electronic equipment in the Imperium, so we try
> harder (harder than Makhidkarun Electronic Equipment LIC, that
> is, but neither of us can unseat Naasirka for number one yet).
"We're Naasirka. We don't care. We don't have to." (G)
- --
Stormhound
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 14:02:32 -0700
From: Jason Postma
Subject: RE: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
Excuse me if these comments have been made before - I just re-subscribed to
the list.
The common Droyne were distributed throughout most of chartered space by
Grandfather and the other Ancients. There are a few possibilities for this
distribution I can think of:
1) They were harems and close relatives of the super-Droyne Ancients, and
thus part of the family. They were taken along because of the emotional
attachement the Ancients felt for them.
2) The Ancients felt that they owed something to their parent race and may
have planned on evenutally raising them all to their level (this was not
Grandfather's plan, but some or all of the other Ancients may have
entertained the idea).
3) The normal Droyne were used as servants, possibly before humans were
discovered and Vargr created. Once these more useful servants had appeared,
the Droyne were left to their own lives.
Yaskoydray (Grandfather) must have had a soft spot in his heart for the
Droyne as a whole - otherwise there would be no Coyns, no casting, and they
would all be Chirpers. IIRC, the published material (MT Referee's Companion
comes to mind - I don't own the original Alien module) on the Droyne states
that the Coyns appeared simultaneously on many Droyne worlds, long after the
Final War. Grandfather is the obvious source, so he must have had some
reason for preserving them (note that he took great pains to prevent the
preservation of any of his actual offspring).
- -----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Johnson [mailto:johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 1:33 PM
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject: Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>
> There were only 421 Ancients. Yaskodray and his twenty kids, each of whom
> had 20 kids of their own. The common Droyne went on with their lives. The
> fact that Grandfather went to the lengths of genetically engineering
humans
> and wolves in search of assistants speaks volumes about Yaskodray's
opinion
> of the Droyne as a whole.
Not necessarily. It may well have been he was avoiding the creation of
an entire _species_ of him...
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 16:48:03 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin
Subject: Re: Things that make you go... Hummm!
On Mon, 13 Mar 2000 14:34:56 -0500 (EST), pbroeder@wave.co.nz
wrote:
>
>But, but,but - If that's true then doesn't that mean that Leroy was
>right??
>That the Rule of Man got up to TL16+ and then that bad karma appeared
>and trashed everything??
>And that the same bad Karma was responsible for the plague that killed
>off the population of Sabmigys (Sabmiqys2117 X160056-H Ni
>R 504 Im G3 V) in Antares??
>And that this bad Karma is probably named 'Grandfather'
>
Actually, there's a Vilani theory going around that says that any
society that gets to about TL12 is going to go unstable and
collapse.
Interestingly, the Vilani for "twelve" is "karma".
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 16:47:50 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
On Mon, 13 Mar 2000 10:29:15 -0500 (EST), Walt Smith
wrote:
>This, of course, would be in line with the philosophy that the Imperium is
>pretty much an organized crime syndicate itself, with the Megacorps as
>associated familias. The crime syndicate on a member world crosses
>the Imperial Will at their peril. Stay discreet, stay alive...get their attention,
>and find out that those nice men from IMOJ don't need things like search
>warrants or miranda warnings.
While the concept of "search warrants" is likely familiar to all
of our list members, including the non-US-nationals/citizens, the
"miranda warnings" may not be.
These warnings are a standard part of just about any arrest made
in the United States. They came into being as a result of a
case, Miranda v. Arizona, that was decided by the Supreme Court.
A syllabus and the decision can be found at any good law library
or web archive that has extensive material on U.S. law.
If you've ever seen a U.S.-made "cop show", the warnings are
universal, though they're almost never explicitly named in the
show. The wording varies somewhat from jurisdiction to
jurisdiction, but the gist of them is as follows:
"You have the right to remain silent. If you give up your right
to remain silent, anything you say may be used against you in a
court of law.
"You have the right to have an attorney present during
questioning. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be
appointed to represent you."
(Note: U.S. practice does not distinguish between a solicitor and
a barrister.)
"If you choose to answer question without the advice of an
attorney, you may change your mind at any time and stop answering
questions until you have had the opportunity to consult with an
attorney and have an attorney present."
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 16:54:46 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: Grand Explorations
In a message dated 3/14/00 7:34:26 AM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
>
> I think the reference was in preparation for DGP's plans to release a
> supplement called Grand Explorations, which was going to focus on
> explorations outside Known Space. I wonder if anything was ever
> written for that supplement before R**** S***** brought DGP to its
> demise...
A working copy is on the hiwg CD.....One of the versions anyway (there were
two to three possible versions, IIRC).
Btw, hopefully over the next year more of this material will be posted on the
web as I get more time.
Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 15:53:34 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Re : 'Parahumans'
On 03/14/00 at 08:43 AM, "Douglas E. Berry" said:
>>A question :-
>>Anyone have any ideas on how the Solomani Movement, driven by racial
>>'purity', tolerates the expertise of its biotechnologists?
>According to the MegaTraveller Alien Vol. 2, Solomani and Aslan, page 28,
>the Solomani once actually uplifted orangutangs and gibbons to full
>sentience, and went on to gene-mod humans.
I'm sure I've also seen that Elephants and a few other animals were "raised."
>This led to the Gene War. Very
>little information is given, but the Gene War seemed to allow the Party
>to reach the level of power it has today. The implication is that the war
>was similar to the once waged against the genetic superwarriors in some
>Niven/Pournelle stories.
>I would think that humans are off limits beyonf the treatment of genetic
>disorders.
Could be. I'd say that mostly applies to the 3I as well, though.
To be honest, I just don't see the Solomani as being quite as rabid racists as most others do.
Everyone's TUMV, of course.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 17:03:10 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are" [sic]
From: Russell Bornschlegel
> > There're is no reason.I'm just (occasionally) do it.
>
> Tell me this isn't a troll. Come on. I dare you.
I honestly don't think that John is a troll. If he were a troll he would
have either left by now or would have continued to argue concerning his
initial posting.
Instead, John appears to be attempting to fit in. He's still a bit
confrontational, but his posts in the "Parahumans" thread have been, for the
most part, par for the course. I would probably pay more attention to his
posts if the form which they took was a bit more conventional.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 16:02:08 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
On 03/14/00 at 01:32 PM, Bruce Johnson said:
>> There were only 421 Ancients. Yaskodray and his twenty kids, each of whom
>> had 20 kids of their own. The common Droyne went on with their lives. The
>> fact that Grandfather went to the lengths of genetically engineering humans
>> and wolves in search of assistants speaks volumes about Yaskodray's opinion
>> of the Droyne as a whole.
>Not necessarily. It may well have been he was avoiding the creation of an
>entire _species_ of him...
That's my take on it, too. Humans and Canines were much more safe...at least at first.
A couple of points...
First, it might be interesting to have chargen rules for primates, dolphins, and another specie or two.
I'd also like to see some more alien races scattered around. We have a few, but could use a few more.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 16:05:32 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: ACQ
On 03/14/00 at 07:36 AM, Andrew Batishko said:
>Ok, I'm just going to have to ask. What is ACQ, and where can I go to
>find out more?
I just want to know when it's going to be available for order from SJG?
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 17:29:15 -0500
From: "DaveShayne"
Subject: Re: Pre-MT stats for central imperial worlds?
>Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:48:21 -0800 (PST)
>From: Anthony Jackson
>Subject: Re: Pre-MT stats for central imperial worlds?
>A class B starport for a TL-G pop-A world is kind of low
>A class E starport for a TL-F pop-A world is absurd (Weeven 1812 E110A9A-F,
>in Alpha Crucis), though now I look I see it's solomani. Still, to be
>totally honest, anything other than a class-A starport for a TL-F pop-A
world
>is low.
IMTU I've implemented some minimum starport figures
if POP=8+ and TL=9+ then SP=A else
if POP=7+ and TL=8+ then SP=B else
if POP=6+ and TL=7+ then SP=C else
if POP=5+ and TL=6+ then SP=D else
if POP=4+ and TL=5+ then SP=E else
SP=X
Please forgive the if/then/else paradigm but it's the clearest
explanation. Note that this scheme is for minimum SP it's still
posible to have a low pop/low tech planet with an "A" starport.
A more involved method for determining starport levels would
also take into acount trade routes between high pop/tech planets.
For instance planet Albatross has a pop of A and a tech of 9. planet
Seagull has a pop of 8 and a tech of F. between them is planet
Penguin with a population of 3 and a tech level of 4. Planet Penguin's
minimum SP according to my chart would be X but because of the trade
between the other two worlds going through it's system Penguin's SP
should probably be at least a "C." Or not depending on other extraneous
economic factors. I know this doesn't help with explaining apparent
problems with published data but it does offer a reasonable method
of massaging data for Heretical IYTU planets.
Also threshold numbers can be altered higher or lower for preference
depening on the type of universe you run. I'm working on a campaign with a
more uniform overall tech of 9-A with a maximum of C (or thereabouts.) And
quite a bit of interstellar trade. Higer maximum TL will sugest higher tech
thresholds for any given starport type. Lower amounts of trade will sugest
higher population thresholds.
Let us now chant the mantra YTUMV.
David Shayne
+++++++++++++++++++++
Veni, Vidi, Vacca.
I came, I saw, I had a cow
- Bart Caeser
+++++++++++++++++++++
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:54:07 -0800
From: "Jesse LaBranche"
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
> Ack! NO!!!!
> Thu following wsw run thrum a sepulchers automatically an straight
> form me to yuan. What I really wanted to type was, "The following
> was run through a spellchecker automatically and straight from me to
> you." You can see the hash the spellchecker made of it.
> Eris,
> notorious bad speller!
Yeah, I've seene these before. I have both a dislectic (sp?) and one
that cannot spell at all- I am talking literally 3 out of 4 words that he
types are wrong.
The use in setting it to "auto-check" is that it doesn't stop you at
every word, just goes straight through the document auto-correcting.
You still have the choice to reread it to make sure that it is set before
hitting send though.
Later.
Jesse.
vanquer@email.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:18:34 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab
At 18:52 14.03.00, you wrote:
> >>Great idea - the return of the RICE Papers ; does BtC form our baseline
> >>data?
>
> >Yes. I'm going to try and pull data from the older versions for things
> >like stellar data, but I'm not afraid to meddle..
>
>IMO, the writeup should note the version that it applies to. There
>are some differences among what BtC, SM, and RS have to say about
>systems in the Marches. If we note that a writeup of Mora is based
>on BtC material, or the one on Efate used SM data, then the reader
>will be forewarned about similarities or differences between the
>writeup and his own TU.
Cool, I´ll take a world with an Ancients site ;-)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 17:21:41 -0500
From: Mark Urbin
Subject: Please keep it the playground...
> john hamilton
>Subject: Re: TOP Grammar Guard
>- --- "Douglas E. Berry"
>wrote:
> > Þú ert vera breytilegur heimskur manneskja, og ÉG
> > feel mikill sársauki
> > fyrir þinn fátækur móðir fyrir líf með þú og þinn
> > fíflaskapur fyrir svo
> > margir ár
> > There. Chock full of content!
>Hardly.After all,it's from you, Mr Grammar Guard
I've seen better comebacks from first year Cub Scouts....
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
It was a typical net.exercise -- a screaming mob pounding on a greasy spot
on the pavement, where used to lie the carcass of a dead horse.
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 21:32:30 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: ACQ
At 12:46 -0500 14/3/00, "Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
>ACQ is At Close Quarters, a variant combat system for T4 (but usable with
>any version of Traveller) written by a roomful of penguins, err.. James
>Lindsay and myself.
>
>It is currently going throw the final tweaks, but will be available soon
>from British Islands Traveller Support (BITS). Steve Jackson Games will
>carry it in the US.
British Isles Traveller Support (AKA BITS, AKA BITS UK Limited) has
published an initial run of 50 copies.
More will follow. Any errata (and I don't expect a lot after 18+
months of playtest/development) will be on the website, or directly
incorporated into copy 51+...
>(For those wondering what happened, Dom's character tried to grab a grenade
>to throw it back. Grabbing a loose object requires 1D AP. Dom rolled a six.
>Of course he could have aborted the attempt for only 1 AP...)
Sadly, I had nowhere to go to escape the grenade blast anyway.
Starship corridors are killing zones.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 21:21:59 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: re: CSC was Re: Modern Traveller
At 6:48 -0500 14/3/00, john hamilton wrote:
>About 2/3 of the book.The rest is a downsized reprint
>of the vehicle construction kit.
Not quite right - it is a new system by Greg Porter not based on
FFS1. Rather, on his own rules.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 21:20:03 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: CSC was Re: Modern Traveller
At 6:48 -0500 14/3/00, "Rupert Boleyn" wrote:
>So how much of the book is useful? If it's all stuff like you mention
>above I might have to weaken and buy my first (and likely last) piece
>of T4.
The first 52 pages are all equipment. The until pg 89 it's Greg
Porter's VDS which is integrated in Rob Prior's Infini-V, then there
are 6 or 7 pages of 'art' and adverts.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:24:48 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are"
At 19:21 14.03.00, you wrote:
> > >Your ( that's "you are" for oldtimers)
>There're is no reason.I'm just (occasionally) do it.
>
> > No, "your" is a word in English that does not mean
> > "you are." The proper
> > contraction for "you are" is "you're."
>I see it as a second-generation contraction of
>"you're".
No, he just speaks proper english.
Sometimes, when surfing the web, the non-native speaker gets to wonder, if
he speaks better english than the average american, when hee sees
web-sights, their-there-they´re mixups, etc.
Makes ones toenails curl up sometimes...
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 16:30:16 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Modern Traveller
On 03/14/00 at 08:35 AM, "Douglas E. Berry" said:
>At 03:09 AM 3/14/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>>About 2/3 of the book. The rest is a downsized reprint
>>of the vehicle construction kit.
>Actually, that was the first place the vehicle rules showed up. Still,
>you're right about the amount of useful information.
These are the Greg Porter vehicle design rules that came before
FFS2. I don't like the armor, but otherwise they are very good for
quick vehicle construction *and* pretty compatable with FFS I and
II.
The equipment is good and the computer and hacking rules are worth a
look.
>This one is a "buy it if it shows up on the used shelf, or on sale" item.
Yes, I'd say CSC is a buy.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 14:39:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Troy Bradley
Subject: Gashikan emperors
GASHIKAN EMPERORS
*William the Great: Started the First Race War, he
died in combat. Reigning thirty-seven years, William
the Great founded the Second Empire of Gashikan.
*Kevin I(the Good): He ended the First Race War. He
reigned 50 years, from -1440 to
- -1390. Died in his sleep of old age.
*Piotr(the Cruel): Started the First Unification War.
He reigned 18 years, from -1390 to -1372. He died in
battle with Admiral Artur Yanakov in the Izar System.
*Ivan(the Recluse): He reigned thirty-nine years, from
- -1372 to -1333. He died of old age.
*Benjamin(the Great): Conquered many planets during
the First Unification War. He reigned
fifty-five years, from -1333 to -1288. He was murdered
by a Vemlan assassin during a State Visit to the
Rusadir.
*Roger I(the Warrior): Created the Imperial Regency
Council in -1270. He reigned fourty-seven years, from
- -1288 to -1241. He was killed in the First Battle of
Marley.
*Robert(the Mad): Although mad Robert ruled only two
years he killed most of his immediate family and
hundereds of thousands of civilians in an orgy of
bloodlust. He reigned from -1241 to
- -1239, after which he was killed by Elector Ivan
Parks, at the orders of the Regency Council.
*Henryk(the Bearded): Cousin of Robert and only
surviving heir of the House of Grayson, Henryk reigned
for twenty-nine years, from -1239 to -1210. He died in
the Second Battle of Marley.
*Edward I(the Bald): A pacifist at heart, Edward
slowed the brutal military operations in the First
Unification War. He reigned fifty-nine years, from
- -1210 to -1151. He died of old age.
*Kevin II(the Peacemaker): After decades of brutal
fighting, Emperor Kevin II ended the First Unification
War. He reigned a brief two years, from -1151 to
- -1149. He was assassinated by Gashikan extremists.
*Edward II(the Weak): Prodded by his close friend
Admiral Brand, Edward started the Second Race War. He
was a virtual puppet of Admiral Brand's during most of
his thirty-seven year reign, from -1149 to -1112. He
was killed by his son, who assumed the Throne the same
year.
*Michael I(the Strong): A violent racist, Emperor
Michael promoted a geonocidal campaign against Vargr
until a succession movement by the Rose Worlds started
the Second Unification War. Emperor Michael halted the
Second Race War to deal with the rebellious Rose
Worlds.
He reigned from -1112 to -1075, a total of
thirty-seven years. He was killed in the Battle of
Sapriportus.
*Charles I(the Perverse): He ruled only twelve years,
from -1075 to -1063. He was murdered by one of his
male lovers during an argument.
*Charles II(the Pious): Cousin of Charles I, Charles
II reigned 46 years, from -1063 to -1017. He died of
old age.
*Albert I(the Crazy): The most mentally unstable since
Robert, Albert I only ruled for three years, from
- -1017 to -1014. He abdicated at gunpoint to his son.
*Albert II(the Vain): Quiet the ladies man, Albert II
reigned for 44 years, from -1014 to -970. He fathered
eighty-three children and died of old age.
*Nigel: He ruled only three years, from -970 to -967.
He was assassinated by anti-Vargr fanatics while on a
State Visit to Gashimar.
*Malcolm I(the Conquerer): The eldest son of Nigel,
Malcolm the Conquerer started and ended the Third Race
War. He also started the Third Unification War and the
Fourth Race War. He reigned for fourty-five years,
from -967 to -922. He died of old age.
*Michael II(the Brave): He started the Fourth
Unification War and the Interabi Front War. He reigned
for 32 years, from -922 to -890. He was assassinated
by Luren terrorists.
*James I: He reigned twenty-three years, from -890 to
- -867. He was killed when his pinnance crashed after
narrowly avoiding a hypervelocity SAM on approach to
Gashikan City Spaceport.
*Malcolm II: Started the Firfth Race War. He reigned
sixty-six years, from -867 to -801. He died of
Ansiatic Fever while on a State Visit to Jerhattan.
*James II: He ended the Firth Race War. Reigning just
twelve years, from -801 to -787, he died along with
most of his immediate family and billions of Gashikan
citizens from Enzyme
Reaction 42.
*Thomas(the Kind): The youngest son of James II, he
reigned 32 years, from -787 to -755. He died of old
age.
*Caitrin: She started the Sixth Race War during which
she had the first Bolos and super-dreadnoughts built.
She reigned 55 years, from -755 to -700. She died of
old age.
*Roger II: He reigned thirty years, from -700 to -670.
He died during an accidental collison with another
grav car in the Capital.
*Elizabeth: She ended the Sixth Race War. She reigned
for an amazing sixty years, from -670 to
- -610. She died of old age.
*Malcolm III: The last Grayson Emperor, Malcolm III
only reigned twenty-two years, from -610 to
- -588. He was the only child of Queen Elizabeth and his
aversion to women was well known. His tragic death in
a shuttle accident sealed the fate of the Grayson
Dynasty. Having no heir, the Imperial Regency Council
staged a coup in -588 and continues to rule the Second
Empire of Gashikan to this day.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2079
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, March 14 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2080
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Jump Drives - LKW's thoughts
Re: Grand Explorations
Mostly about Parahumans
Re: ACQ
Re: Imperial citizenship documents (was Re: Psionic/jump drives)
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are"
Re: TOP Grammar Guard
Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
RE: Corporate Names
RE: This is it. Any time now.....
Re: Traveller with Alternity
Re: Dulinors folly and Strephons misery and Norris triumph
Re: Yanks are coming
NEW and Old
Grammar (was re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are")
Re: Traveller / Trade Wars 2002
That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are"
Re: Re : 'Parahumans'
Re: This is it. Any time now.....
Re: Modern Traveller
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:29:08 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Re: Jump Drives - LKW's thoughts
At 20:34 14.03.00, you wrote:
>It seems to me that minor races might use the "carefully seeded"
>idea as propaganda, saying, in effect, "we're just as good as
>the major races; they only developed jump drive first because
>the game was rigged."
I don´t think so, because the knowledge necessary to form this conspiracy
theory is GM-only in large parts... Not general knowledge in the Imperium,
and only parts known to various scholars across the Imperium.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:33:43 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Re: Grand Explorations
At 22:54 14.03.00, you wrote:
>In a message dated 3/14/00 7:34:26 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
>
> >
> > I think the reference was in preparation for DGP's plans to release a
> > supplement called Grand Explorations, which was going to focus on
> > explorations outside Known Space. I wonder if anything was ever
> > written for that supplement before R**** S***** brought DGP to its
> > demise...
>
>A working copy is on the hiwg CD.....One of the versions anyway (there were
>two to three possible versions, IIRC).
Why don´t you just post a copy of it on the TML (or someone else who has
the HIWG-CD). I wouldn´t mind ;-)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 16:39:49 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Mostly about Parahumans
On 03/14/00 at 05:03 PM, "Chris Seamans" said:
>Instead, John appears to be attempting to fit in. He's still a bit
>confrontational, but his posts in the "Parahumans" thread have been, for
>the most part, par for the course. I would probably pay more attention to
>his posts if the form which they took was a bit more conventional.
Gee, Chris, we're on a roll! This is the second time in a week we've agreed about something.
I'm afraid I can't get much from John's posts because of their construction, but it does appear he is trying to produce worthwhile content. I *do* wish he'd make more use of the spacebar, though.
The use of the term "parahumans" reminds me too much of The Island of Dr Moreau. Personally, I'd play them more like Brin's Uplift.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:40:22 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: ACQ
On 14 Mar 00, at 7:40, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> Combat in ACQ is deadly. Which is, IMHO, the way it should be. Getting hit
> in the chest by a 9mm slug is at the very least going to slow you down
> considerably. At worst, you'll be dead before you hit the deck. So the
> game rewards careful planning and thought. As Dom found out in the game he
> described, those AP can run out at the most inopportune moments.
As a minor point of interest, what have you done with hit chances? The
last I heard the hit rate with pistols in most fire-fights is around
10%, whereas most Traveller fights have hit rates in the 25-75% range
(barring TNE full-auto).
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:40:22 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Imperial citizenship documents (was Re: Psionic/jump drives)
On 14 Mar 00, at 3:15, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> Well, last I heard, with regards to seagoing vessels, the child gets
> the nationality of the country the ship is registered in. In addition,
> depending on the laws of the countries involved, the child may also be a
> citzen by birth of the father's country or the mother's country.
>
> Given the right combo of parents and laws, a child could be a "natural
> born citizen" of all *three* (ie world of ship's registry, mother's world,
> and father's world).
I've heard that with the right combination if the ship's in port you
can get the port's nationality as well, for a total of four.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:40:22 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
On 13 Mar 00, at 18:53, Glenn Goffin wrote:
> >From: Peter Newman
>
> >
> >Remember how thinly spread the Terran's were. Do you really
> >think that the Rule of Man was, or even cared to, able to
> >distinguish between a "good" Solomani Ensign ruling her planet
>
> >with a firm hand to keep the Vilani down and a "bad" Solomani
> >Ensign who was running her entire planet as Capo e Capo of a
> >planet wide protection racket above an ethnically Vilani crime
> >family who had adopted Solomani mob culture to serve as her
> >underlings?
> >Imagine a scenario like this: The Vilani Empire has just
> >collapsed.
> >A Solomani Ensign has just landed on a Vilani planet. She
> >"invites" the planetary leaders to come out to the starport
> [deletion]
> >"Nice planet youse guys got here - it sure would be a shame
> >if'n something ud happen to it wouldn't it?"
>
> That was probably close to SOP in the early days after the fall
> of the Ziru Sirka. The early Terran proconsuls had to have wide
> latitude to tax the conquered territories in order to finance
> their own administrations, because Terra itself did not have the
> resources to finance administration of the entire conquered Ziru
> Sirka. They also had the latitude to enforce their directives
> with such naval assets as they could convince to help them --
> and the convincing often involved payment to the navy. Thus the
> navy ran its own protection racket, protecting the proconsuls
> from the local Vilani, while the proconsuls protected the Vilani
> from the Navy.
>
> Well, it's all much less corrupt now that we have new Third
> Imperium. Really.
Of course we do. After all it's not corrupt if the Emperor and the
Bureaucracy and the Navy say it's legal and proper, now is it?
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:40:22 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
On 14 Mar 00, at 9:32, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> At 02:00 AM 3/13/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>
> >Your ( that's "you are" for oldtimers)
>
> No, "your" is a word in English that does not mean "you are." The proper
> contraction for "you are" is "you're."
>
> A complete failure to use the language correctly does nothing to impress
> the readers of the list. In fact, it does the exact opposite. I'm not
> immune. In fact, I've ben know to drop entire words, but I'm not arrogant
> about my mistakes, and try to correct them.
>
> ObTrav: The differences in Galangic from place to place. Similar to taking
> Aussies to a baseball game just to watch them during the seventh inning
> stretch.
That's cruelty to dumb animals, that is (With appoligies to any and all
Aussies reading this - I just couldn't resist, though maybe I should
wait until after the cricket).
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:40:22 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are"
On 14 Mar 00, at 11:20, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> At 10:21 AM 3/14/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>
> >I see it as a second-generation contraction of
> >"you're". So it becomes "your".
>
> Alas, the rest of the people on this list do not see it that way. In fact,
> I've never seen "your" used in that manner anywhere on Earth.
I have (well if usenet counts as "on earth"). It's used by idiots on
usenet, and seems to be becoming common amongst the um "less literate"
segment of our younger people, along with the dropping of the past
tense in spoken language. Arrgggh!
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:40:22 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: TOP Grammar Guard
On 14 Mar 00, at 5:46, john hamilton wrote:
>
>
> --- "Douglas E. Berry"
> wrote:
> >
> > Þú ert vera breytilegur heimskur manneskja, og ÉG
> > feel mikill sársauki
> > fyrir þinn fátækur móðir fyrir líf með þú og þinn
> > fíflaskapur fyrir svo
> > margir ár
> >
> > There. Chock full of content!
>
> Hardly.After all,it's from you, Mr Grammar Guard
Ah, you understand it, then. In that case could you please provide a
translation, as I'm dying to know what Doug said.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:40:22 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
On 14 Mar 00, at 11:37, Peter Newman wrote:
> IMTU SolSec has a secret branch somewhat similar to B5's PsiCop's.
> [Not PsiCorp as a whole with its nambly pambly don't scan normals
> rules.] They actually act in the "ethically challenged" ways
> that Imperial propaganda says the Tavrchedl does. Indeed
> these Solomani Operatives will sometimes engage in state sponsored
> Psionic terrorism within the Imperium. Any evidence of their
> existence can be blamed on the Zhodani. A war between the Consulate
> and the Imperium would provide an excellent opportunity for the
> Sphere [enter Solomani mode] Home of all true humans to break
> the dictatorial rule of the treacherous Imperial Mud Men and free
> holy mother Terra from their perfidious grasp.
I reckon SolSec _is_ the Psicorp, but they naturally ensure that no one
knows this.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:40:22 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
On 14 Mar 00, at 9:43, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> >BTW, what do the Solos think about the Zhos?
> >Telepathy and Teleportation is hardly a fact any
> >supremacist can ignore.
> >Does SolSec have some (secret?) Institutes
>
> Probably not even that secret. The supressions were an Imperial event
> after all. But given the nature of the Solomani Party and SolSec, I don't
> think they really want that many telepaths running around. You might even
> find an organization like Babylon 5's "Psi Corps" regualting and
> registering psionic talents.
I reckon that all SolSec are Psis. That's why they're always mentioned
as having access to special training that the Impies never detail. OTOH
if they were the Impies would probably play this up for all it's worth.
Hmm. When were the suppressions again? Maybe the Solomani didn't
suppress the Psis in thier patch properly, leading to yet another
source of tension between them and the Imperials.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:40:22 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
On 14 Mar 00, at 9:23, Chris Seamans wrote:
> I personally don't see it. I do see frequent combats as being regular in
> AD&D, but I don't see the same attention to the more martial elements of
> the game world which I do see in Traveller.
It would appear that we have different ideas on what makes a rpg close
to being a wargame. I tend to look at the origin of the rules, and
while CT is undeniably based on wargame principles, AD&D1 (and the
original D&D) are basically skirmish wargames in their mechanics. I
also look at what you seem to be expected to do in the game, and CT had
a lot more things to do than fight, whereas in (A)D&D that's about all
you did, aside from dodging traps.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:40:22 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: RE: Corporate Names
On 14 Mar 00, at 16:12, Trevor, Peter wrote:
> LKW wrote:
> > Some megacorps _were_ named in Vilani.
> >
> > Hortalez et Cie actually existed. I thought it was a
> > neat-sounding name, and
> > I wanted to see if anyone else got the reference.
>
> That was a dummy corporation set up by the French to fund anti-
> British activities in the colonies. IIRC the French had just
> lost a little European war to us (the Brits) and were looking for
> revenge. The colonists were amenable to the inspired rallying cry of
> "no taxes!" which political leaders of the day modified into "no taxes
> without the vote". Unfortuneatly for the rebels the "no taxes" idea
> ment that their army was often unfunded even by their own side ... and
> thus the French (aka: Hortalez et Cie) took up the slack (at least in the
> early days).
>
> Thus the USA was born out of French pride and people's general
> dislike of taxes. :-^
Note that this dislike did not survive the failed invasion of Canada
(otherwise known as the War of 1812), when the US found that what
amounted to a feudal military relationship between your member states
and your central government is not a good foundation for an army
capable of waging offensive warfare.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:40:22 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: RE: This is it. Any time now.....
On 14 Mar 00, at 9:05, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> Pheonix Command? I prefered being shot at by real people.
I've still got my copy of that. I used to use it to silence those who
criticised my Aftermath game for being too complex and clunky. This
technique also works on those who think RM/SM has too many tables.
I've not been shot at by real people, but if one were at least the pain
wouldn't last as long.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:40:22 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Traveller with Alternity
On 14 Mar 00, at 0:00, Steve Daniels wrote:
>
>
> Paul Kerby wrote:
>
> > I opened up my copy of Dragon for April 2000, and there, in several
> > colors, is an 8 page article on using the Traveller universe with the
> > Alternity Rules.
>
> Hmm. Using the Traveller setting to play a game with Traveller-derived
> rules. Makes perfect sense.
>
> I was just looking over the Alternity player's and gm's books.
> I forgot how disgusted I was at this lame imitation of Trav.
When I got Alternity I was stuck by how much the rules owed to
Traveller, especially TNE. Yet everyone I've met claims it's an AD&D
knock-off. Seems strange to me that an AD&D clone would have a task
system like TNE's, a stat range like Traveller's, guns from CT, 5 day
jumps, etc, etc, etc.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:40:22 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Dulinors folly and Strephons misery and Norris triumph
On 14 Mar 00, at 0:55, Volker Greimann wrote:
> This is why i liked Strephons way better. Fade into obscurity, slowly
> giving up his claim, just to prevent further bloodshed. Sad, as well, as
> his ideals could never triumph that way, but he stood by his ideals, and
> didn´t just pay lip-service to them. IMHO, Strephon was the best leader of
> the Rebellion (closely followed by the shrewd maneuvering of Norris, who
> kept the peace in his worlds chose the only sensible path, take over, so
> things wouldn´t degenerate into chaos and then STAY THE HECK OUT OF IT)
I think Duke Craig did the best he could, too. He didn't have as easy a
time of it as Norris, but stayed out of it as much as possible, too.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:40:22 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Yanks are coming
On 14 Mar 00, at 11:22, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> At 08:00 AM 3/15/2000 +1300, you wrote:
>
> >I seem to recall the US Army discovering that 30% of its officers
> >couldn't navigate from maps, mostly because they couldn't relate map to
> >ground.
>
> Not just officers... 1/3 of all people just cannot use a map to navigate.
> We run into this when hiring at SuperShuttle. People just cannot relate
> the lines to the streets.
I never meant to imply that it was only officers (attractive though
thqat piece of slander is), but the report only talked about officers.
I never really stuck it in the Army, but I suspect that with the amount
of bush work we did that those who couldn't use a map avoided postings
where they had to use them. Our bush is way too thick to be able to use
landmarks, etc reliably, so competence with map and compass work is
essential.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 14:46:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Troy Bradley
Subject: NEW and Old
I am new to this list guys, but was on years ago. I
didn't read this Hamilton dudes email but I was
attacked pretty rudely. I love traveller, have for
decades now. Have built an extensive history and
background for the Gashikan Empire. Lurk alot becuase
I work alot. I am a writer as well and am seriosly
considering writing in the Traveller universe. It
appears that some people think this list is their
personal fiefdom...THAT'S interesting! One would think
that new guys would be welcome but maybe their are too
many people here on this List already? Hmmm. I will be
watching from time to time(I do not check each and
every Traveller email sent to my account, just the
ones that seem interesting for plot backgrounds and
story lines, etc). Good luck *salute*. Troy, USMC
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 16:47:49 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Grammar (was re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are")
On 03/14/00 at 08:24 AM, Volker Greimann said:
>> > >Your ( that's "you are" for oldtimers)
>>There're is no reason.I'm just (occasionally) do it.
>>
>> > No, "your" is a word in English that does not mean
>> > "you are." The proper
>> > contraction for "you are" is "you're."
>>I see it as a second-generation contraction of
>>"you're".
>No, he just speaks proper english.
Testify, Volker!
>Sometimes, when surfing the web, the non-native speaker gets to wonder,
>if he speaks better english than the average american, when hee sees
>web-sights, their-there-they re mixups, etc.
Yes, we often make mistakes with sound-alike words like "your" and "you're", the "their", there", "they're" trio and numerous others. I think part of the problem is that we *are* using our native language, so we don't take the time to be sure of the meaning of what we type.
>Makes ones toenails curl up sometimes...
Amen!
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 16:49:08 -0600
From: Alex Ingram
Subject: Re: Traveller / Trade Wars 2002
> Excellent idea.
>
> Starports could sell trader ships, and some might even have
> an architect for hire. You'd look for crewmen at the bar.
>
> Why, your trader could turn rogue and see just how hard it
> is to be a pirate... firsthand... hmmmm....
>
> Starcharts would be real Traveller sectors, so you can weave
> your plots offline.
>
> Hey! You get one turn per day: once you've jumped, your
> turn is over. Wow, pretty slow game... unless you're an
> Imperial Navy Squadron commander and are moving into
> position on the Zhodani border...
>
> It's still a nontrivial task to write; however, it's very
> do-able... hmmmm! And it can be in Java. Anyone else
> really like this idea?
>
> Rob
Having a common set of planets, starcharts, shipyards, corporations, NPCs,
starports, etc. would
be a great idea and if Traveller is ever going to expand big time this is the
vehicle.
Alex
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 16:52:41 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
On 03/15/00 at 11:40 AM, "Rupert Boleyn" said:
>> ObTrav: The differences in Galangic from place to place. Similar to taking
>> Aussies to a baseball game just to watch them during the seventh inning
>> stretch.
>That's cruelty to dumb animals, that is (With appoligies to any and all
>Aussies reading this - I just couldn't resist, though maybe I should
>wait until after the cricket).
Hee! Hee! Rupert, would you care to *attempt* to explain the rules of cricket to an American? ;-J
Eris,
who doesn't see how anyone would have problems understanding that the 7th inning stretch is just an opportunity get up shake around and go empty ones bladder so one last round of beer and hotdogs can be safely consummed.
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:53:48 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are"
On 14 Mar 00, at 8:24, Volker Greimann wrote:
> At 19:21 14.03.00, you wrote:
> > > >Your ( that's "you are" for oldtimers)
> >There're is no reason.I'm just (occasionally) do it.
> >
> > > No, "your" is a word in English that does not mean
> > > "you are." The proper
> > > contraction for "you are" is "you're."
> >I see it as a second-generation contraction of
> >"you're".
>
> No, he just speaks proper english.
> Sometimes, when surfing the web, the non-native speaker gets to wonder, if
> he speaks better english than the average american, when hee sees
> web-sights, their-there-they´re mixups, etc. Makes ones toenails curl up
> sometimes...
Well, to be utterly pedantic it should be "web-sites", not "web-
sights", but I'm willing to let you off, seeing as you're not a native
speaker, and all. (Firmly tongue in cheek, given my stunning command of
the language).
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:53:48 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Re : 'Parahumans'
On 14 Mar 00, at 15:53, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
> To be honest, I just don't see the Solomani as being quite as rabid
> racists as most others do.
I'm damn sure they're not. For one thing Party membership is known to
be relatively low, and the Party's influence was waning before the
"Rebellion". For another the Party has quite a wide spectrum of opinion
as to what consistutes a "Terran", some quite lax.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 14:58:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: This is it. Any time now.....
Rupert Boleyn writes:
>
>
> On 14 Mar 00, at 9:05, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>
> > Pheonix Command? I prefered being shot at by real people.
>
> I've still got my copy of that. I used to use it to silence those who
> criticised my Aftermath game for being too complex and clunky. This
> technique also works on those who think RM/SM has too many tables.
Hah. Phoenix Command was a step up in playability from their _original_
system (Spectrum). In that system you:
1) Add up a bunch of modifiers to determine a hit number.
2) Look up that number on a chart to determine chance on d1000 of hitting.
3) Flip to the table of hit locations for the target's position (standing,
kneeling, prone; front or side view).
4) Roll d1000 on that table for hit location, of about 80.
5) Flip to the damage chart for that hit location.
6) Find the penetration of the weapon at your chosen range.
7) Subtract armor
8) Look up any remaining penetration on the damage table for that location
9) You get at least two numbers (wounding and shock).
10) Multiply each number by a multiplier appropriate to your weapon.
11) Look up the shock of the wound, +1/10 of any shock from prior wounds, on
the wound table to decide if the target goes into shock.
12) Look across the wound table to see what you hit. There might be an artery,
in which cas a percentile chance of hitting that artery is given, along
with a wound value for bleeding from that artery.
13) Assuming someone went down, you now square all your wound totals, add them
up, and go to the medical attention table, adjusting for time before
treatment, type of medical aid, and tech level. This gives a chance of
dying. There was, incidentally, no such thing as an immediately lethal
wound.
Unfortunately, I lost my copy years ago.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 16:06:01 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Modern Traveller
eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
>
> On 03/14/00 at 08:35 AM, "Douglas E. Berry" said:
>
> >At 03:09 AM 3/14/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>
> >>About 2/3 of the book. The rest is a downsized reprint
> >>of the vehicle construction kit.
>
> >Actually, that was the first place the vehicle rules showed up. Still,
> >you're right about the amount of useful information.
>
> These are the Greg Porter vehicle design rules that came before
> FFS2. I don't like the armor, but otherwise they are very good for
> quick vehicle construction *and* pretty compatable with FFS I and
> II.
And _entirely_ compatible with Greg's VDS (Vehicle Design System) which
does for vehicles what his 3G3 does for weapons. A definite thumbs up!
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2080
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, March 14 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2081
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
Re: Back in the saddle
'Parahumans' and heretical Solomani
Re: NEW and Old
Re: Dulinors folly and Strephons misery and Norris triumph
Re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are"
Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab
Re: Re Zucchai Crystals.
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: 'Parahumans' and heretical Solomani
Re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are"
Re: Dulinors folly and Strephons misery and Norris triumph
Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
OT: Web Site (was Re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are")
Re: Dulinors folly and Strephons misery and Norris triumph
re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are" [sic]
Re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are"
Re: Web Site (was Re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are")
OT: Sorry for personal mail
RE: 'Parahumans' and heretical Solomani
re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are" [sic]
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2073
re: Gashikan emperors
Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
re: New Zealand air force,
Re: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:04:57 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
On 14 Mar 00, at 16:52, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
> Hee! Hee! Rupert, would you care to *attempt* to explain the rules of
> cricket to an American? ;-J
Nope, not even a little bit.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 17:05:41 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Back in the saddle
On 03/14/00 at 10:44 AM, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:
>Would you be interested in some speculation about what sort of conditions
>on-world would *make* heavy metal extraction from seawater more
>practical? Some of the possibilities would make for interesting
>background and hazards.
I would be, so please do tell!
Akus players stop reading...
I've got something like that in mind for my PBEM on a nearby world and I have time to arrange things correctly before they get there.
Eris,
and if you guys *read* this I'll know!
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 18:08:27 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: 'Parahumans' and heretical Solomani
From:
> To be honest, I just don't see the Solomani as being quite as rabid
> racists as most others do.
>
> Everyone's TUMV, of course.
No. I agree with you on this one Eris. That's not surprising, though, we
seem to agree quite a bit, at least when it comes to game issues. Looking
over my two volumes of the CT Imperial Encyclopedia however, it seems that
the "rabid racist" view is well supported pretty far back.
I'm not particularly fond of this take on the Solomani, however. In my
opinion it's very difficult to build a theory of racial hatred when, "... it
is virtually impossible to distinguish Vilani from Solomani and in the
middle classes, traditionally both geographically and socially mobile, the
distinction has become meaningless as extensive intermarriage has blended
the two... Even between genetically pure Vilani and Solomani, the
differences are slight.[1]" (Supplement 8 pages 26 - 27). Personally, I
suspect that very obvious differences in gross morphology would be required
to sustain the level of racism which is generally said to be a
characteristic trait of the Solomani. This doesn't appear to be supported by
the text, however.
There is another option, however. "The History of the Solomani Movement"
section of Supplement 8 paints a picture which doesn't require a theory of
racial supremacy, although such a theory is mentioned explicitly as being at
the core of the Solomani movement. The same effect can be achieved if the
Solomani have a theory of cultural superiority instead.
Using such a model is very attractive as the Solomani sphere begins to look
more like the ancient Greek city-states than Nazi Germany or the Western
world in general during the eugenics craze of the early 20th century. It is
doubtful that a quasi-scientific discipline like eugenics will ever rise
again in the face of more modern genetic theory.
So, you have a huge body of people who consider their culture, society and
political structures to be superior to those of the Imperium, the Vilani,
and just about everyone else. This *is* somewhat logical as the hold which
post-Enlightenment ideas and ideals have on the societies of earth have been
pretty damn tenacious so far. Instead of a hackneyed fascist state with
devious neo-Nazis in power manipulating everybody through terrorist
organizations you get a wide variety of different societies within a looser
political structure, the members of which *really believe* in things which
are opposed by the Imperials and the Vilani, which IMHO makes for a much
deeper and more interesting game world.
It's also attractive because such a state would probably be strong on the
defense but relatively weak on the offensive. In a pinch, the Solomani
worlds and political entities might come together quickly for defense but
find it difficult to get any sort of real offense going.
Just some thoughts. This is more or less how the Solomani appear IMTU, at
any rate. However, IMTU (the "Petty States Universe") the Solomani control
the largest state in known space (even though it's just a little bigger than
the Solomani Sphere is on the Book 8 / Book 9 Known Space map).
[1] It is the general Classic Traveller attitude concerning the
physiological differences between the Vilani and Solomani which causes me to
reject a considerable body of later materials concerning the Vilani.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 14:47:00 -0800
From: "Jesse LaBranche"
Subject: Re: NEW and Old
Hey Troy,
This might not be appropriate considering that I have
only recently returned as well- maybe after you did, but
welcome back anyway.
I think that there was just a huge miscommunication/
confusion in the heat of the arguments that were raging
and people seem (at least to me) apologetic even if
such has not been stated.
Don't let the flamers and trolls scare you away either.
Those are the one's that don't deserve to be on the list
and that the list does not deserve to have IMO.
Just stick around and you'll find that, despite the rude
reception, people around here are generally pretty cool
and reasonable about their opinions.
Sorry all for this being a bit off-topic...
Good gaming,
Jesse.
vanquer@email.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 17:18:58 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Dulinors folly and Strephons misery and Norris triumph
On 03/15/00 at 11:40 AM, "Rupert Boleyn" said:
I think Duke Craig did the best he could, too. He didn't have as easy a
>time of it as Norris, but stayed out of it as much as possible, too.
He deserved a better fate than he got, too.
I'm still interested in developing a (or seeing someone else's) variant post-Rebellion setting with a dozens of petty states in the middle of wild areas.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 14:55:33 -0800
From: "Jesse LaBranche"
Subject: Re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are"
> Well, to be utterly pedantic it should be "web-sites", not "web-
> sights", but I'm willing to let you off, seeing as you're not a native
> speaker, and all. (Firmly tongue in cheek, given my stunning command of
> the language).
> "Rupert Boleyn"
> An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
I believe you should check this one again. A "site" is a location
or a place. A camp site for instance while a "sight" is something
you see.
Later.
Jesse.
vanquer@email.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 20:06:51 +0000
From: Paul Campbell
Subject: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab
I'm up for this. I'd like to expand on my notes for Ylaven/Lanth (1916) - Red
Zone.
I've never 'published' anything before, so I'm choosing a world that I already
have some notes on. It is a Red Zone so it should be fairly self contained. It
also has a low population concentrated in a single city. Practice really, to
get my confidence up.
I'll probably include some options that can be used or discarded according to
how you do things in YTU. For example to have or not to have, that is the
question, a pirate base hidden in the system.
- --
Paul Campbell
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 21:39:13 +0000
From: Paul Campbell
Subject: Re: Re Zucchai Crystals.
On Tue, 14 Mar 2000, William F. Hostman wrote:
> >>(3) Zuchai Crystals? Never heard of them.
> >
> >This is actually true for me. I know anbout Lanthanum that is required for
> >ajump drive, but "Zuchai Crystals"?
> >
> A reference in a CT era product (although I know not which nor by whom)
> included these.
>
> They were made canon in DGP's Starship Operator's Manual. Which is now
> decanonized due to Roger *SPIT* Sanger's misplaced greed.
I'm missing something here. But then that's nothing new.
> What they do is discharge in the samae pattern as the charge was applied.
> Unless you over charge them, then they explode. But they accelerate the
> discharge by some factor (and thus the wattage increases, even though the
> joules don't).
>
> Actually, on that Roger side note, I found roger rather easy to deal with,
> a wonderful ideas man. But, he lacks followthrough... Then again, I've only
> dealt with him via email. But he keeps failing to pay ISP bills on time.
- --
Paul Campbell
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 21:41:17 +0000
From: Paul Campbell
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
On Mon, 13 Mar 2000, Peter Newman wrote:
> Mafia is supposedly an acroymn for
>
> Merte alla Francia, Italia allegra
>
> which roughly translated to
>
> Death to France, Italy screams!
I always thought that, well not always, but certainly since I heard it, thought
that it meant somthing about 'kill the greeks' or 'death to the greeks'.
- --
Paul Campbell
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:27:53 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: 'Parahumans' and heretical Solomani
On 14 Mar 00, at 18:08, Chris Seamans wrote:
> I'm not particularly fond of this take on the Solomani, however. In my
> opinion it's very difficult to build a theory of racial hatred when, "...
> it is virtually impossible to distinguish Vilani from Solomani and in the
> middle classes, traditionally both geographically and socially mobile, the
> distinction has become meaningless as extensive intermarriage has blended
> the two... Even between genetically pure Vilani and Solomani, the
> differences are slight.[1]" (Supplement 8 pages 26 - 27). Personally, I
> suspect that very obvious differences in gross morphology would be
> required to sustain the level of racism which is generally said to be a
> characteristic trait of the Solomani. This doesn't appear to be supported
> by the text, however.
My understanding was that there is a simple test that can determine
whether you are a Solomani by your genetics (and even whether you're
"pure" or not). Personally I have my doubts about this, unless they're
just tracking one particular gene group (at which point it's not
testing purity anymore).
> It's also attractive because such a state would probably be strong on the
> defense but relatively weak on the offensive. In a pinch, the Solomani
> worlds and political entities might come together quickly for defense but
> find it difficult to get any sort of real offense going.
That actually matches with the MT stuff about little multi-world trade
groups, etc. It also explains why the Confederation didn't sweep much
further into the 3I during its last civil war (let's get rid of this
"Rebellion" crap).
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:35:40 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are"
On 14 Mar 00, at 14:55, Jesse LaBranche wrote:
> > Well, to be utterly pedantic it should be "web-sites", not "web-
> > sights", but I'm willing to let you off, seeing as you're not a native
> > speaker, and all.
> I believe you should check this one again. A "site" is a location or a
> place. A camp site for instance while a "sight" is something you see.
I've never seen "sight" used this way, and collection of web pages in
one "place" on the internet are generally seen as being in a place, and
are thus a "web site".
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:35:40 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Dulinors folly and Strephons misery and Norris triumph
On 14 Mar 00, at 17:18, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
> On 03/15/00 at 11:40 AM, "Rupert Boleyn" said:
>
> I think Duke Craig did the best he could, too. He didn't have as easy a
> >time of it as Norris, but stayed out of it as much as possible, too.
>
> He deserved a better fate than he got, too.
>
> I'm still interested in developing a (or seeing someone else's) variant
> post-Rebellion setting with a dozens of petty states in the middle of wild
> areas.
My version is somewhere buried in my "to do" list, along with finishing
my New Era Canopus write-up, redoing my FFS1 space missile spreadsheet,
getting my web pages back up (a complete re-write job after my HD
crashed), geeting me C&S fantasy stuff up on said web-site...
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 16:48:33 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
Doesn't it have something to do with a Galaxy-wide War of Exterimination
by some cheerful, Paul McCartney singing rabid xenophobes??
Rupert Boleyn wrote:
>
> On 14 Mar 00, at 16:52, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
>
> > Hee! Hee! Rupert, would you care to *attempt* to explain the rules of
> > cricket to an American? ;-J
>
> Nope, not even a little bit.
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 17:47:39 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: OT: Web Site (was Re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are")
On 03/15/00 at 12:35 PM, "Rupert Boleyn" said:
>On 14 Mar 00, at 14:55, Jesse LaBranche wrote:
>> > Well, to be utterly pedantic it should be "web-sites", not "web-
>> > sights", but I'm willing to let you off, seeing as you're not a native
>> > speaker, and all.
>> I believe you should check this one again. A "site" is a location or a
>> place. A camp site for instance while a "sight" is something you see.
>I've never seen "sight" used this way, and collection of web pages in
>one "place" on the internet are generally seen as being in a place, and
>are thus a "web site".
Rupert is correct, it's web-site, and Jesse, it's a site for just the reason you gave...it is a location or place, just like a camp site.
You want to know the one that always gets me...where do you keep the cargo on your ship? Is it a cargo hold, or is it a cargo hole? Hold, right? Except, that doesn't sound right. It just makes more sense for the pirate Captain to say, "Argh! Toss the scurvy dogs in the hole!"
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 17:49:52 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Dulinors folly and Strephons misery and Norris triumph
On 03/15/00 at 12:35 PM, "Rupert Boleyn" said:
>> I'm still interested in developing a (or seeing someone else's) variant
>> post-Rebellion setting with a dozens of petty states in the middle of wild
>> areas.
>My version is somewhere buried in my "to do" list, along with finishing
>my New Era Canopus write-up, redoing my FFS1 space missile spreadsheet,
>getting my web pages back up (a complete re-write job after my HD
>crashed), geeting me C&S fantasy stuff up on said web-site...
Well, chop, chop! Let's get busy! You can't let that nasty job (or real life) get in the way of the important stuff. ;->
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 15:50:34 -0800
From: Russell Bornschlegel
Subject: re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are" [sic]
Volker Greimann wrote:
> Sometimes, when surfing the web, the non-native speaker gets to wonder, if
> he speaks better english than the average american, when hee sees
> web-sights, their-there-they4re mixups, etc.
> Makes ones toenails curl up sometimes...
The average non-native speaker of English has *studied* it more than
the average American, I think.
- -Russell "non-average native" B
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 15:38:56 -0800
From: "Jesse LaBranche"
Subject: Re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are"
> > > Well, to be utterly pedantic it should be "web-sites", not "web-
> > > sights", but I'm willing to let you off, seeing as you're not a native
> > > speaker, and all.
> > I believe you should check this one again. A "site" is a location or
a
> > place. A camp site for instance while a "sight" is something you see.
> I've never seen "sight" used this way, and collection of web pages in
> one "place" on the internet are generally seen as being in a place, and
> are thus a "web site".
> "Rupert Boleyn"
You know what? I misread your post. You and I are saying the same
thing that it is a "web site", not a "web sight". The use of "sight" as
something that you see would be things like a great view- "what a
beautiful sight" or the connotation that you are running with- "far sight"
Hope that clarified, all semantics I guess :-)
Later.
Jesse.
vanquer@email.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 15:42:42 -0800
From: "Jesse LaBranche"
Subject: Re: Web Site (was Re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are")
> You want to know the one that always gets me...where do you keep the cargo
on your ship? Is it a cargo hold, or is it a cargo hole? Hold, right?
Except, that doesn't sound right. It just makes more sense for the pirate
Captain to say, "Argh! Toss the scurvy dogs in the hole!"
> Eris
Lol. Yeah, it's a hold because it holds stuff. You toss the scurvy
dogs through the hole and they land in the hold ;-)
Later.
Jesse.
vanquer@email.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 16:17:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Timothy Tow
Subject: OT: Sorry for personal mail
Sorry for the mis-posting of personal email. I
actually have no idea how this was sent to the
traveller list. Yahoo Mail appeared to have hicupped.
Tim
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 17:19:42 -0700
From: Jason Postma
Subject: RE: 'Parahumans' and heretical Solomani
I don't think you build a racial supremacy theory on genetics - you use
genetics as support to your racial supremist theory.
That may not seem to make much sense, but neither does prejudice.
The Solomani believed their way of doing things was superior to the Vilani
way, and then began to prove it by conquering their empire. Only later did
they come up with a scientific explanation for their cultural superiority -
the other races of humaniti had been meddled with by the Ancients.
- -----Original Message-----
On 14 Mar 00, at 18:08, Chris Seamans wrote:
> I'm not particularly fond of this take on the Solomani, however. In my
> opinion it's very difficult to build a theory of racial hatred when, "...
> it is virtually impossible to distinguish Vilani from Solomani and in the
> middle classes, traditionally both geographically and socially mobile, the
> distinction has become meaningless as extensive intermarriage has blended
> the two... Even between genetically pure Vilani and Solomani, the
> differences are slight.[1]" (Supplement 8 pages 26 - 27). Personally, I
> suspect that very obvious differences in gross morphology would be
> required to sustain the level of racism which is generally said to be a
> characteristic trait of the Solomani. This doesn't appear to be supported
> by the text, however.
My understanding was that there is a simple test that can determine
whether you are a Solomani by your genetics (and even whether you're
"pure" or not). Personally I have my doubts about this, unless they're
just tracking one particular gene group (at which point it's not
testing purity anymore).
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 19:17:07 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are" [sic]
Russell Bornschlegel wrote:
>The average non-native speaker of English has *studied* it more than
>the average American, I think.
True, at least for the technical details. An "average American" should
have an advantage for comfortable usage, speed of comprehension, and
flexibility (with regards to assimilating or understanding slang terms,
regional accents and such). This is because the average non-native
speaker of English has been exposed to a (relatively) tiny quantity of
technically perfect English, while an average native speaker of English has
been exposed to massive quantities of English from the technically perfect
to the grammatically catastrophic.
I know that most Americans cease formal study of English at or before
age 18. Is it more common for non-native speakers of English to learn
the language at an early age, or in adulthood?
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 16:27:04 -0800
From: "James W. Brewer"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2073
>>>
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 02:07:10 -0600
From: John Littleton
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2073
Glenn Goffin wrote:
>To shake the apathy, I have a suggestion: The TML 2000
>Landgrab. Anyone interested takes a world in the Spinward
>Marches and details the hell out of it.
This is very OT for this thread, but I have always wondered about Solomani
expansion to Rimward. How far did/will/can they go? How big is the Solomani
sphere? To me, this idea is as interesting as the Zho Core expeditions
(actually
more so). Please, any canon or non-canon responses.
<<<
I've ran a long range survey mission Rimward using T4, set during the Rim
War. The idea is to contact colonies planted by the Terran Confederation
during the wars with the Villani. Their mission was to either pull them
into the Solomani Confederation or use them as bolt holes in case the
Imperium wins. A character with a high level of diplomatic skills is
essential to survive in this game. (You've just landed on a tech 10 world
that thinks that the Villani baby eaters are waiting to find them.)
Jim Brewer
jwbrewer@ucsd.edu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 16:26:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: re: Gashikan emperors
>From: Troy Bradley
>*Albert II(the Vain): Quiet the ladies man, Albert II
>reigned for 44 years, from -1014 to -970. He fathered
>eighty-three children and died of old age.
I think "Quiet the Ladies' Man" would make a fine name for a
character.
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 19:22:40 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
Eris Reddoch wrote:
>First, it might be interesting to have chargen rules for primates, dolphins, >and another specie or two.
I have a JTAS Beastiary article with chargen for Dolphins..._Delphinus
Galactacus_, I think they call them, as they aren't quite the same
creatures as those from the oceans of Earth.
I've read the parts in GURPS _Biotech_ about uplifting animals, and
I've got GURPS _Uplift_ on my want list. The idea of taking uplifted
animals to the stars with us just appeals to me for some reason.
If we can't find any aliens out there, we'll just have to make our own...
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:50:37 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley"
Subject: re: New Zealand air force,
> From: Steven Hudson
> >We also have to allow for the possibility that the Anatolian Illuminati
>
> More realistically, the ANZAC's may want revenge on the planners :|
If only.
> >might attempt to seek revenge for New Zealand's invasion of Turkey in
World
> >War I, by assisting the penguins to develop flight capability, or by
waking
> >Cthulhu.
>
> Ah, but the Anatolians are too crafty to do anything to attract
attention
> to themselves - you didn't see them getting handed their heads in WW2,
did
> you? Besides, they know that The Stars Will Be Right by the time that
they
> reach the Spinward Marches or thereabouts :>
Still, covert assistance to the penguins could be possible, especially
since there is already a penguin fifth column in NZ. Not to mention the
sixth column. No, I mean that: _Don't_ mention the sixth column.
Their overall plan seems a little risky to me though. The ritual
sacrifices of both Strephon's _and_ Dulinor's clones, plus the requirement
for Avery to succeed in changing the course of history seems to be over
complex.
One slip, and the K'kree will devour us all.
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:18:41 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley"
Subject: Re: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
> From: Ingo Heinscher <
> >There is one slight problem though: the fact that German is being used
> >might well be an artifact of the linguistic skills available to
> >Traveller writers! This is probably reinforced by it being _bad_
> >German. It might make more sense if at least some Chinese, Japanese or
> >other non-European languages were used - but skills in those languages
> >tend to be a lot rarer among Traveller players, and presumably writers,
> >than skills (even poor skills!) in European languages.
>
> That's not fair. You can't blame OTU for the U.S. education system.
> ;-)
>
> No, I feel more comfortable with an in-universe explanation.
It's not just the US education system. Native Anglophones in general tend
to be relatively weak in language skills. There's lots of reasons why -
history, culture, geography etc - but these are basically OT.
An in-universe explanation: well, if you look at the 21st century as a
game, the "results" are obviously:
Europe and North America:1
Rest of the World: 0
That is, (apart from Japan), the economically dominant nations of the
present day are still economically dominant in 2100, and have a
disproportionate influence on the Terran Confederation, and hence the Rule
of Man, and so on. (Elaborate this as required).
I wouldn't normally resort to this kind of explanation, except that it
seems to fit some of the facts. Of course, we also know that the Turks
were out there in a big way, and some of the worlds in the Solomani Rim,
Diaspora, and so on have names derived from a wide range of languages, and
that Nepal, amongst other places on Earth, was substantially industrialised
during the Interstellar Wars, so clearly it isn't entirely one sided. None
of this excludes the possibility of some Earth nations/regions being "first
among equals" in early Terran interstellar society, and ultimately (in a
vestigial form) being culturally over-represented in the Third Imperium.
Wow. I'm writing some shocking sentences here. Anyway, it's a bit sad
that we have to do it, but we can explain why various Terran languages
survive into the Third Imperium. That's good. Let's face it: if they
didn't, the whole thing would be intensely dull.
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2081
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, March 14 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2082
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
Re: Jump Drives - LKW's thoughts
Re: Dulinors folly and Strephons misery and Norris triumph
Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
Petty States for Eris (QUITE LONG)
Re: 'Parahumans' and heretical Solomani
RE: Grand Explorations
Sworld world names?
More Petty States Universe Comments
Vacc Suits and Solar Flares?
Re: Traveller with Alternity
Re: MONTANA-class Battleship (T4/FF&S2) (longish)
Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
Re: Yanks are coming...
Re: Traveller with Alternity
Re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are"
Re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are" [sic]
Re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are"
Re: Pre-MT stats for central Imperial worlds
Re: Vilani history and mindset (was:Re: The Low Jump Number Question)
Re: Parahumans and Solomani
Re: Yanks are coming...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 01:00:13 -0000
From: "Matthew Bond"
Subject: Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
- -----Original Message-----
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: 14 March 2000 22:55
Subject: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
>On 03/15/00 at 11:40 AM, "Rupert Boleyn" said:
>
>>> ObTrav: The differences in Galangic from place to place. Similar to
taking
>>> Aussies to a baseball game just to watch them during the seventh inning
>>> stretch.
>
>>That's cruelty to dumb animals, that is (With appoligies to any and all
>>Aussies reading this - I just couldn't resist, though maybe I should
>>wait until after the cricket).
>
>Hee! Hee! Rupert, would you care to *attempt* to explain the rules of
cricket to an American? ;-J
>
>Eris,
> who doesn't see how anyone would have problems understanding that the
7th inning stretch is just an opportunity get >up shake around and go empty
ones bladder so one last round of beer and hotdogs can be safely consummed.
Well, its quite simple really.
There are two teams. The one that is in is determined by a coin toss. The
team that is in goes out to bat, and the team that isn't in goes in to the
field. The team that is in stays in until they are all out, when they go in,
and the other team, that is now in, goes out. When they are out they go in,
and the first team comes out to go in. After they are out they go back in
and the second team comes out to go in again. When these are all out the
game ends, and the team that has score the most wins, and both sides go in.
They then go out to drink warm beer.
See, simple.
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 19:08:42 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
On 03/15/00 at 01:00 AM, "Matthew Bond" said:
>Well, its quite simple really.
>There are two teams. The one that is in is determined by a coin toss. The
>team that is in goes out to bat, and the team that isn't in goes in to
>the field. The team that is in stays in until they are all out, when they
>go in, and the other team, that is now in, goes out. When they are out
>they go in, and the first team comes out to go in. After they are out
>they go back in and the second team comes out to go in again. When these
>are all out the game ends, and the team that has score the most wins, and
>both sides go in. They then go out to drink warm beer.
>See, simple.
For someone that understands baseball, that explanation made *perfect* sense. The only question I have is how do those that are in get out, so those that are out can come in? ;-J
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 17:10:19 -0800
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
Subject: Re: Jump Drives - LKW's thoughts
Via electronic medium on 3/14/00 5:46 AM, GDWGAMES@aol.com GDWGAMES@aol.com
issued forth:
> I don't like the notion that "Every culture that developed jump drive had a
> carefully-seeded set of almost-working, easy to copy examples in their home
> system." (using this quote purely as an example, nothing perjorative intended
> towards it author). It is contrary to the original intent, and largely
> unsupported by the literature (I say "largely" only because I'm not 100% sure
> something didn't slip through).
Behold, The Great One hath spoken! ;) I was hoping that lil' hint wouldn't
be overlooked. Yes, I agree that "Every culture that developed jump drive
had a carefully-seeded set of almost-working, easy to copy examples in
their home system." is a stretch, and IMTU the Sollies get it by an
arranged accident (Roswell), the Vilani from "tech-seeding" (perhaps
unintentional), the Hiver's actually /developed/ theirs, with other races
acquiring the Tech through trade, espionage, research, etc. So I think we
agree that not all races /copied/ Jump tech, but do you think *any* got the
technology through imitation? Either from espionage, gifting, trade, etc.?
What was the original intent?
BZA's Traveller--> http://www.sierratel.com/aum/BZAT/
BZA's E-Mail--> xrp@sierratel.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:12:07 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Dulinors folly and Strephons misery and Norris triumph
On 14 Mar 00, at 17:49, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
> On 03/15/00 at 12:35 PM, "Rupert Boleyn" said:
>
> >> I'm still interested in developing a (or seeing someone else's) variant
> >> post-Rebellion setting with a dozens of petty states in the middle of
> >> wild areas.
>
> >My version is somewhere buried in my "to do" list, along with finishing
> >my New Era Canopus write-up, redoing my FFS1 space missile spreadsheet,
> >getting my web pages back up (a complete re-write job after my HD
> >crashed), geeting me C&S fantasy stuff up on said web-site...
>
> Well, chop, chop! Let's get busy! You can't let that nasty job (or real
> life) get in the way of the important stuff. ;->
I try not to, but I have several unfortunate addictions that force me
to work in order to pay for them. Firstly this darn list (which not
onlt requires me to pay ISP bills, but munches insane amounts of time).
Secondly I have this horrible addiction to food, and I hust can't stop
eating the damn stuff. I've treid to kick the habbit for years, but I
can only hold out for a day or so at the outside. It's really annoying
(and expensive), but I just can't shake it.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 16:51:56 -0800
From: "Jesse LaBranche"
Subject: Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
> There are two teams. The one that is in is determined by a coin toss. The
> team that is in goes out to bat, and the team that isn't in goes in to the
> field. The team that is in stays in until they are all out, when they go
in,
> and the other team, that is now in, goes out. When they are out they go
in,
> and the first team comes out to go in. After they are out they go back in
> and the second team comes out to go in again. When these are all out the
> game ends, and the team that has score the most wins, and both sides go
in.
> They then go out to drink warm beer.
> See, simple.
>
> Matt
Sorry, but with all those ins and outs, I'd have to say that this sounds
much
more like a bedroom sport than a field one :-)
Later.
Jesse.
vanquer@email.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 20:33:07 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Petty States for Eris (QUITE LONG)
From:
> I'm still interested in developing a (or seeing someone else's)
> variant post-Rebellion setting with a dozens of petty states in the
> middle of wild areas.
Can't help you on that one, since in my Petty States universe the Imperium
gets halted pretty early during its expansion, so the Imperium never gets to
the point of rebellion.
Here is the rough skeleton of what I have so far:
[For the most part my classes have sucked my time away from Trav, so it's
not a whole lot. For example, instead of typing this I should be writing a
paper on the development of contrapposto (or "weight-shift"[1]) in Greek
sculpture and whether or not this reflects an abrupt change due to "cultural
anxieties" (as proposed by J.J. Pollitt) or is simply the logical result of
a more linear development (as proposed by Gisela Richter).]
The Petty States Universe:
"That night I, a child of the Long Night, looked up into the void. I saw the
twinkling stars in a way I could have never conceived of them before. The
stars were no longer merely pretty lights in the sky, but the suns of a
thousand of worlds. At that moment I saw my future before me, and I knew
that I was destined to unite them all under a common banner."
- "A Thousand Suns" (the autobiography of Emperor Cleon I)
"Everyone in the Imperium knows the wonderful story of the moment when Cleon
became aware of his destiny, when he first saw the stars in his sky as suns
burning in the skies of other worlds. He didn't realize that the other
children of the Long Night had taken their destinies into their own hands.
At that very moment the Vilani were re-establishing their dominion over the
worlds of the Vland Sector. The Darmine Corporate was actually at the peak
of its power then, and had already been trading throughout the Zarushagar
Sector for centuries..."
- "System-States and Pocket Empires" by Baroness Theodosia
Amara-Isfahani
The premise behind the Petty States Universe is simple:
I personally think that the vast, sprawling Third Imperium is absurd so I've
modified it considerably. Instead of one huge and monolithic interstellar
state there are a number of smaller states. There is a good deal of intrigue
among these polities, and the situation is more similar to Terra during the
"long 19th century" (with apologies to Hobsbawm), the period from around the
late 18th century up to the beginning of the Great War.
For what it's worth I don't really have the time to get into arguments
concerning whether or not a quasi-fuedal state like the Imperium could exist
on the scale presented in the OTU. You really won't change my opinion on the
matter.
Pre-Imperial history is pretty much unchanged. The Ziru Sirka existed and
was monolithic. The scrappy Terran "David" did indeed take on the Vilani
"Goliath" and win. One minor change is that in order to facilitate their
military victories the Terrans exported their intellectual heritage
wholesale in order to undermine the tight grip which the Ziru Sirka had over
its member worlds. Imagine, if you will, Jesus Christ, Karl Marx, Aristotle,
Adam Smith, Hegel, Malthus, the Buddha, Confucius and Locke all landing on
your world at the same time after several millenia of dominance by a culture
which only allowed you to play by *their* rules.
The plan was a sound one and did topple the Ziru Sirka. However, the very
framework of the Ziru Sirka was destroyed as well making it utterly
impossible for the Rule of Man to take its place. The Long Night set in and
was marked by the worlds of known space making many of the mistakes Terra
did, except on a much larger scale. After about 1,700 years it is utterly
impossible to unite known space under a single banner. That's not to say
that nobody has tried.
As of about 1100, Imperial, the interstellar states are as follows:
The Solomani - One huge federal state. There are member worlds and small
polities within the larger state and it looks more or less like I described
in one of my previous messages. I have yet to come up with a decent "long
form" name, like the United States of America, the United Mexican States,
the People's Republic of China or something like those. If you have a map of
the Imperium handy complete the Solomani Sphere "circle" through the lower
quarter of the Daibei Sector, about half of Diaspora and add a bulge which
covers almost all of the Old Expanses and a little bit of Delphi.
The Free States of Daibei - The Free States of Daibei are a confederation of
smaller pocket empires and system-states. The goal of the political unit is
to provide a unified front against potential Solomani incursions and the
land hungry Aslan. Their territory covers most of Daibei about a fifth of
Diaspora and a tiny bit of Zarushagar and Massila.
The Darmine Corporate States - The DCS covers about half of Zarushagar. They
are loosely allied with some of the Free States and share a long history of
allegiance with the Ilelishi. I've been doing a lot of work with these guys,
too much to do justice to here. Basically the individual states with the DCS
are large cartels and corporations.
Ilelish - Haven't done much with these guys yet. Their sphere of influence
covers Ilelish, between 1/3rd and 1/2 of Gushemege and those parts of the
Reft and Verge Sectors "within the claw".
The Third Imperium - The campaign setting you know and love, only much
smaller, since it ran out of steam much earlier. It covers all of Core, all
of Fornast, a little over half of Massila most of the "usable" space in
Delphi, a corner of Zarushagar about half of Dagudashaag, a little under
half of Lishun and a tiny bit of Antares. The Imperium has strong ties to
the Ziru Sirka.
The Ziru Sirka - Much like the Energizer bunny, the Vilani just keep going
and going. The Ziru Sirka is attempting to stabilize Corridor and keep the
Vargr at bay. They've got all of Vland, about half of Dagudashaag and about
half of Lishun.
The way I've drawn the borders on my map (on paper, unfortunately, and not
fit for any sort of publication in the electronic realm) leaves lots of holl
ow spaces between the major players. For now I'm calling them "The Border
Worlds" and they are full of intrigue, adventure and even exploration. If
you consider the fact that the Second Imperium was disintegrating and the
Vilani never had really boss Jump Drives you can imagine systems within "The
Border Worlds" which have never even been visited.
I plan on fleshing out the politics and detailing the mini-states within the
larger states and so on, but that's the skeleton of the universe as it
currently exists, at least.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 20:48:02 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: 'Parahumans' and heretical Solomani
From: Jason Postma
> I don't think you build a racial supremacy theory on genetics - you
> use genetics as support to your racial supremist theory.
Sort of. It was a mishandling of Darwin's evolutionary theory (by his own
cousin) which really kicked off the eugenics movement. It gave some credence
to the nationalist ideologies which were beginning to form in the late 19th
and early 20th centuries. In this case science fed into culture and culture
fed into science. In my own estimation it was something of a "Which came
first? The chicken or the egg" style scenario.
> That may not seem to make much sense, but neither does
> prejudice.
Actually, prejudice unfortunately makes all too much sense. It has served
various functions at various times in history, from eliminating competitors
for scarce resources, scapegoating a segment of the population to unify the
rest and provide a justification for astonishing brutality.
> The Solomani believed their way of doing things was superior to the
> Vilani way, and then began to prove it by conquering their empire.
> Only later did they come up with a scientific explanation for their
> cultural superiority - the other races of humaniti had been meddled
> with by the Ancients.
Personally, I disagree. Although there will always be people who don't like
other people I don't think we're ever going to see a return to the kind of
racialist theories which are said at the base of the Solomani movement. I'm
not an optimist, but stuff like America's mandatory sterilization laws and
the Holocaust seem pretty difficult to ignore.
That's just my own interpretation of history, yours may vary.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 20:51:41 -0500
From: "Garcia, Abel"
Subject: RE: Grand Explorations
- -----Original Message-----
From: Kagehira@aol.com [mailto:Kagehira@aol.com]
Subject: Re: Grand Explorations
> I think the reference was in preparation for DGP's plans to release a
> supplement called Grand Explorations, which was going to focus on
> explorations outside Known Space. I wonder if anything was ever
> written for that supplement before R**** S***** brought DGP to its
> demise...
A working copy is on the hiwg CD.....One of the versions anyway (there were
two to three possible versions, IIRC).
Btw, hopefully over the next year more of this material will be posted on
the
web as I get more time.
Bryan,
Are you associated with the ol'Bosie DGP group? I wonder if parts of their
_AI_ SFRPG are posted anywhere? You know kind of like the notes section in
MJ#4 that listed most of DGP's MT ideas.
Abel.
(Yes I was one of the foolish ones to order an advance copy of that game for
$15! No I'm not looking to get my money back; I'd just be happy to read some
working notes.)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 20:53:51 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: Sworld world names?
I know this has been a much asked question on the TML ..so please forgive my
"newbieness"but....aside from weapons from JRR Tolkien, Thor and King Arthur
(I know there are 2 worlds named from Arthurian legend)...what are the other
Sword World's named after?? Just curious...:)
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 20:55:59 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: More Petty States Universe Comments
More comments about my Petty States Universe: The Vargr Extants are smaller,
the Zhodani Consulate is about the same size it is on the map of the
Imperium. The Hive Federation is roughly the same size as it is on the map
(the Solomani are trying to figure out what to make of the Federation). The
Two Thousand Worlds and the Aslan Hierate are both a little smaller as well.
The basic idea is to allow for more "frontiers" in known space and create
slots for introducing other alien races and interstellar societies.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 20:53:55 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares?
At TL 15 would vacc suits be able to withstand solar flare radiation outside
protective planetary belts? Just curious...I know that modern suits won't and
that US shuttle astronauts have to be careful....
Thanks
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 18:23:30 -0800
From: "Kelly St.Clair"
Subject: Re: Traveller with Alternity
On Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:40:22 +1300, "Rupert Boleyn"
wrote:
> When I got Alternity I was stuck by how much the rules owed to
> Traveller, especially TNE. Yet everyone I've met claims it's an AD&D
> knock-off. Seems strange to me that an AD&D clone would have a task
> system like TNE's, a stat range like Traveller's, guns from CT, 5 day
> jumps, etc, etc, etc.
I strongly suspect this is because they've never HEARD of Traveller, let
alone are familiar enough with it to make the comparison. *sigh* Kids
these days, no sense of history...
Yes, I turn 30 tomorrow, why do you ask?
- --------------
Kelly St.Clair "You know, Brink, you've been acting funny ever since
kellys@efn.org you came back from the dead. (I can't believe I just
said that.)" -- Commander Boston Low, THE DIG
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 20:28:31 -0500
From: "R.D. Elliott"
Subject: Re: MONTANA-class Battleship (T4/FF&S2) (longish)
>
>Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:06:36 -0700
>From: Bruce Johnson
>Subject: Re: MONTANA-class Battleship (T4/FF&S2) (longish)
>
>Black ICE wrote:
>>
>> As I continue to work on the AuricTech Shipyards Web site upgrade, I
>> find that I just _have_ to post a design or two to the TML (to tide you
>> [and me!] over until things are ready).
>>
>> In that spirit, here's the MONTANA-class battleship, designed for
>> service in the M:1100 setting (i.e., TL-15):
>>
>> **begin transmission**
>>
>> AuricTech Shipyards MONTANA-class Battleship
>>
>> Tons: 500,000 std (SL Medium Rounded Cylinder Hypersonic)
>
>Visualizing a half a megaton of something comming in through the
>atmosphere hypersonic.....
>
>"Moommmmyyyyyyy!"
Foreshadowing, dammit. Still, it's a lovely picture...
Roderick Darroch Elliott
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 20:40:33 -0500
From: "R.D. Elliott"
Subject: Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
>Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 19:22:40 -0500
>From: Walter Smith
>Subject: Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
>
>Eris Reddoch wrote:
>>First, it might be interesting to have chargen rules for primates,
>>dolphins, >and another specie or two.
>
>I have a JTAS Beastiary article with chargen for Dolphins..._Delphinus
>Galactacus_, I think they call them, as they aren't quite the same
>creatures as those from the oceans of Earth.
>
>I've read the parts in GURPS _Biotech_ about uplifting animals, and
>I've got GURPS _Uplift_ on my want list. The idea of taking uplifted
>animals to the stars with us just appeals to me for some reason.
>If we can't find any aliens out there, we'll just have to make our own...
How much would you have to enlarge, say, a King penguin's brain
before it would begin to approach sentience? What would it like to talk
about? Would it spend all its time watching fishing shows on cable? The
mind boggles...
Roderick Darroch Elliott
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:40:45 +1000
From: "The Roc"
Subject: Re: Yanks are coming...
And I have been shown with school children (my missus being a teacher), that
there are other corelations with just "certain people" in regards to just
"certain things." Some people simply cannot work with numbers, others with
spelling, and so on. Mostly, such people cannot work with certain abstracts
(such as maps).
- -- The Roc
> At 08:00 AM 3/15/2000 +1300, you wrote:
>
> >I seem to recall the US Army discovering that 30% of its officers
> >couldn't navigate from maps, mostly because they couldn't relate map to
> >ground.
>
> Not just officers... 1/3 of all people just cannot use a map to navigate.
> We run into this when hiring at SuperShuttle. People just cannot relate
the
> lines to the streets.
> --
>
> Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 15:31:54 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Traveller with Alternity
On 14 Mar 00, at 18:23, Kelly St.Clair wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:40:22 +1300, "Rupert Boleyn"
> wrote:
>
> > When I got Alternity I was stuck by how much the rules owed to
> > Traveller, especially TNE. Yet everyone I've met claims it's an AD&D >
> knock-off. Seems strange to me that an AD&D clone would have a task >
> system like TNE's, a stat range like Traveller's, guns from CT, 5 day >
> jumps, etc, etc, etc.
>
> I strongly suspect this is because they've never HEARD of Traveller, let
> alone are familiar enough with it to make the comparison. *sigh* Kids
> these days, no sense of history...
There is that :( There also seems to be a belief that on one would ever
want to copy anything but D&D (I for one feel the reverse).
> Yes, I turn 30 tomorrow, why do you ask?
Ha! You spring chicken you! I turned 30 six weeks ago (didn't feel much
different in the morning, either). At least now I have an excuse for
feeling old and decrepit.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:46:24 +1000
From: "The Roc"
Subject: Re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are"
> At 19:21 14.03.00, you wrote:
> > > >Your ( that's "you are" for oldtimers)
> >There're is no reason.I'm just (occasionally) do it.
> >
> > > No, "your" is a word in English that does not mean
> > > "you are." The proper
> > > contraction for "you are" is "you're."
> >I see it as a second-generation contraction of
> >"you're".
>
> No, he just speaks proper english.
> Sometimes, when surfing the web, the non-native speaker gets to wonder, if
> he speaks better english than the average american, when hee sees
> web-sights, their-there-they´re mixups, etc.
> Makes ones toenails curl up sometimes...
>
And not just websites... newspapers where editors don't have to any more,
just use the spell checker on the word processor.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 18:38:03 -0800
From: "Kelly St.Clair"
Subject: Re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are" [sic]
On Tue, 14 Mar 2000 17:03:10 -0500, "Chris Seamans" wrote:
>From: Russell Bornschlegel
>>
>> > There're is no reason.I'm just (occasionally) do it.
>>
>> Tell me this isn't a troll. Come on. I dare you.
>
>I honestly don't think that John is a troll. If he were a troll he would
>have either left by now or would have continued to argue concerning his
>initial posting.
I don't think so either. More likely, IMO, he's part of the distressingly
large class of people who are congenitally unable to admit that they were
wrong. That, and he prefers not to waste his time on things like spacing
or using proper English. Sp4c3s r 4 l0s3rs, d00d!
- --------------
Kelly St.Clair "You know, Brink, you've been acting funny ever since
kellys@efn.org you came back from the dead. (I can't believe I just
said that.)" -- Commander Boston Low, THE DIG
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:00:40 +1000
From: "The Roc"
Subject: Re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are"
>
> You know what? I misread your post. You and I are saying the same
> thing that it is a "web site", not a "web sight". The use of "sight" as
> something that you see would be things like a great view- "what a
> beautiful sight" or the connotation that you are running with- "far sight"
>
So what you meant to say was that some web-sites are beautiful web-sights?
;)
- -- The Roc
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 04:00:57 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen
Subject: Re: Pre-MT stats for central Imperial worlds
Anthony Jackson writes:
>A class B starport for a TL-G pop-A world is kind of low
>A class E starport for a TL-F pop-A world is absurd (Weeven 1812 E110A9A-F,
>in Alpha Crucis), though now I look I see it's solomani. Still, to be
>totally honest, anything other than a class-A starport for a TL-F pop-A world
>is low.
And when you come right down to it, any world advanced and populous enough to
have an airport has something that will double as a Class C starport.
Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"I am a jelly doughnut."
J.F. Kennedy
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 04:02:23 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Re: Vilani history and mindset (was:Re: The Low Jump Number Question)
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> If it's inherently hard to do experiments on some of the factors
> involved in making a jump, theory could be hard to confirm.
Imagine the number of catastrophic attempts made before someone proposed
the following:
"What if we move further away from our planet?"
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 04:09:58 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen
Subject: Re: Parahumans and Solomani
Douglas E. Berry writes:
>Remember that in the 3I era, nobody knows that the Droyne were the
>Ancients. In fact, most Droyne are seen as rather pastorial, backwards
>people, content to farm their little worlds. Even the Droyne don't
>understand who they really are.
Actually, according to AM5 the connection between the Droyne and the Ancients
(though presumably not the exact details) were discovered "300 years ago". My
take is that the date is 790.
>There were only 421 Ancients. Yaskodray and his twenty kids, each of whom
>had 20 kids of their own.
"about 20 kids each". 421 is too exact a number.
Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
events based on the individual situation."
_76 Patrons_, p. 8
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 21:13:14 -0600
From: "Thomas Vickers"
Subject: Re: Yanks are coming...
Some people simply cannot work with numbers, others with
> spelling, and so on. Mostly, such people cannot work with certain
abstracts
> (such as maps).
I wish I had the article that I read once, but that was in the days of
learning to be a teacher myself. It pretty much said that the above idea is
a very Western philosophy. In fact, a very American idea. Whereas the
Japanese see things differently, ie. everyone can do everything, if they put
their minds to it.
I will say this, you can find an approach that works for everyone. Someone
may think they can't work with maps/math/ insert other , but if you take the
time to find the correct approach, they can and will grasp it.
A good example of this is doing multiplication or addition by counting on
your fingers. In my school days, that was a huge no. Teachers freaked,
called your parents, refused to let you do it.
Today you are crazy to stop a kid from doing it. Its just their way of
making sense of something. I hope that made sense.
Anyone can do anything, if they find a way to make sense of it. That is the
hard part. Especially for us teachers.
TV
PS. Send those military officers to me :) I have to teach map skills to 7th
graders. Military types can't be too far from 7th graders.
- ------------------------
"Never apologize, never explain."
Hunter S. Thompson
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2082
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, March 15 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2083
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Sure We Need T5... and here's what it looks like...
Re: Yanks are coming...
Busy day
Re: Pre-MT stats for central imperial worlds?
Zuchai Crystals
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: ACQ
RE: 'Parahumans' and heretical Solomani
Re: ACQ
Re: Mostly about Parahumans
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Famille Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
Re: Yanks are coming [OT]
Re: Yanks are coming...
Re: MONTANA-class Battleship (T4/FF&S2) (longish)
RE: Famille Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
Re: MONTANA-class Battleship (T4/FF&S2) (longish)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:12:32 -0600
From: Rob Eaglestone
Subject: Sure We Need T5... and here's what it looks like...
I hear several votes for more background.
I also hear several votes for the new, improved Traveller rules
system. Built on the ashes of the old, perhaps?
So, gathered from posts over the last few weeks, here's what
I think we need. Or rather, what I'd like to see.
OPTION I:
- ---------
Rulebook: same size as "The Traveller Book", with pretty much
the same proportion of material as said book.
Most of these sections are laid out so as to be mini-games
in their own right, allowing solitaire play.
Summary pages encapsulate rules, and flowcharts in some
circumstances streamline process.
Artwork is good, appropriate, and supports the text.
Mark Cook and Jesse DeGraff spring to mind.
PLAYTESTED and PROOFREAD.
intro
basic chargen, T4-like stat rules & aging
basic equipment, vehicles
basic skills & task system
basic combat (fast, painful, and seamless with ship combat!)
basic encounter handling (animal + people)
basic worldgen
basic starship gen & combat (seamless with personal combat!)
(perhaps use a revised Mayday or RPSCS?)
basic travel, trade & commerce
basic psionics
basic introduction to the milieu (ca. 200)
Sourcebooks:
milieu sourcebook perhaps...
or a couple good adventures that convey the same info.
citizens: all careers, basic and advanced gen systems...
Perhaps a more detailed combat system here.
A rapid NPC generation system, perhaps template-based?
ffs3: the last ffs ever, please. The foundation for
all equipment/vehicle/ship design and modular
design systems.
star cruiser [sorry 2300!]: good deckplans of all standard
Traveller ships, plus a modular ship design system
(QSDS?). Rules to cover massively large ships and
exotic tech (black globes, Very High Tech stuff like
matter portals, and perhaps some references to
extra-canon stuff like Stutterwarp). Perhaps Bruce
Allen MacIntosh and Anders Backman's Definitive Sensor
Rules belong here, as well as other more detailed
combat rules and fleet combat rules.
imperial catalog: equipment and vehicles. Perhaps a
modular VDS based on ffs3. So this would be
the new, improved Central Supply Catalog.
Includes descriptions, pictures and anecdotes.
worlds: star system generation. interstellar economics?
merchant prince material? starport generation
and construction rules?
OPTION 2:
- ---------
Break the books into 3 main rulebooks a la MT, and parcel
out the remainder into sourcebooks.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 22:27:19 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Yanks are coming...
From: The Roc
> And I have been shown with school children (my missus being a
> teacher), that there are other corelations with just "certain people" in
> regards to just "certain things." Some people simply cannot work
> with numbers, others with spelling, and so on. Mostly, such people
> cannot work with certain abstracts (such as maps).
There are varying levels and varying causes. Dyslexia and a certain similar
form of innumeracy are "hardwired", for example. Dyslexia is pretty well
studied, innumeracy less so. I imagine that there might be one or more forms
of hardwired "icon-dyslexia".
Then, on a different level, are cultural or societal problems. Orthographic
literacy is a perfect example. Someone who is orthographically literate
might be able to read a newspaper but will have serious problems when
confronted with abstract ideas or theories.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 03:51:05 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Busy day
There certainly is a lot of traffic on the list today. I thought TML
stood for "Traveller Mail List" not "Tuesday? Mail Lots!" ;-)
- - Jeff Peterson (j_pete@bellsouth.net)
"I was going to write myself in, but I was afraid I'd get shot."
-Lincoln Kennedy, Oakland Raiders tackle,
on his decision not to vote
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
NOG #74 AirStar Nova 700
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 22:07:47 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Pre-MT stats for central imperial worlds?
Anthony Jackson wrote:
>
<>
>
> A class B starport for a TL-G pop-A world is kind of low
> A class E starport for a TL-F pop-A world is absurd (Weeven 1812 E110A9A-F,
> in Alpha Crucis), though now I look I see it's solomani. Still, to be
> totally honest, anything other than a class-A starport for a TL-F pop-A world
> is low.
The best explanations I can see for a TL15, Pop-A world to have less
than a class-A starport are:
1. The starship-capable shipyards at the starport are damaged beyond
current usability, due to war or some other unpleasantness (reasonably
likely).
2. The TL15, Pop-A world belongs to a polity that doesn't want this
particular world to have the capability to build starships, and is able
to enforce this policy (less likely, but possible).
Either way, it could happen, but it should be rare.
I agree with the poster who pointed out that, in a pinch, most TL7+
worlds would have facilities (such as airports) that could serve as
class-C starports.
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:57:26 +1000
From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au
Subject: Zuchai Crystals
Can someone please refresh my memory about Zuchai Crystals.
I've tried the source books and library data but cannot find where they are
described.
ISTR they were detailed in one of the adventures, but cannot remember which
one. I may not even have that adventure, so a few lines about them as well would
help.
Thanks
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 04:05:00 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
On Tue, 14 Mar 2000 16:47:50 -0500, Jeff Zeitlin
wrote:
>While the concept of "search warrants" is likely familiar to all
>of our list members, including the non-US-nationals/citizens, the
>"miranda warnings" may not be.
>
>These warnings are a standard part of just about any arrest made
>in the United States. They came into being as a result of a
>case, Miranda v. Arizona, that was decided by the Supreme Court.
>A syllabus and the decision can be found at any good law library
>or web archive that has extensive material on U.S. law.
>
>If you've ever seen a U.S.-made "cop show", the warnings are
>universal, though they're almost never explicitly named in the
>show. The wording varies somewhat from jurisdiction to
>jurisdiction, but the gist of them is as follows:
IIRC there was a police chief character in "Phule's Company" who had
"MIRANDA" tattooed on his right fist.
- - Jeff Peterson (j_pete@bellsouth.net)
"I was going to write myself in, but I was afraid I'd get shot."
-Lincoln Kennedy, Oakland Raiders tackle,
on his decision not to vote
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
NOG #74 AirStar Nova 700
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 22:05:02 -0600
From: "Thomas Vickers"
Subject: Re: ACQ
> >While this is true, I would like to note that the original _Champions_
> >rules from Hero Games, published some twenty years ago,
>
> But that's a dead game. :P
Not dead in my little universe :) Some of us are awaiting the 5th Edition
rules. Hmmm..... I see some sort of Hiver plot here. Some of this list is
waiting for T5, while some of us are waiting for 5th Edition Hero. Is there
something significant about the 5th edtion of an RPG?
TV
- ------------------------
"Never apologize, never explain."
Hunter S. Thompson
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 19:55:47
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: RE: 'Parahumans' and heretical Solomani
At 05:19 PM 3/14/2000 -0700, you wrote:
>I don't think you build a racial supremacy theory on genetics - you use
>genetics as support to your racial supremist theory.
The Nazis used the superiority of the Aryan "race" as a benchmark before
DNA was discovered. They simply used extensive genological research.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 20:00:16
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: ACQ
At 11:40 AM 3/15/2000 +1300, you wrote:
>As a minor point of interest, what have you done with hit chances? The
>last I heard the hit rate with pistols in most fire-fights is around
>10%, whereas most Traveller fights have hit rates in the 25-75% range
>(barring TNE full-auto).
Depends. If you take the time (and AP) to aim, you're very likely to get a
hit. Most shots will be quick shots, which will fall into the 10-20% hit
range.
We did try to keep the hit rate high enough to avoid frustation in players
and extended sessions.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 20:04:32
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Mostly about Parahumans
At 04:39 PM 3/14/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>The use of the term "parahumans" reminds me too much of The Island of Dr
Moreau. Personally, I'd play them more like Brin's Uplift.
For us hard-core weird freaks, we immediately think of Kerr's "fairies =
Greys" stuff.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 20:09:58
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
At 11:40 AM 3/15/2000 +1300, you wrote:
>That's cruelty to dumb animals, that is (With appoligies to any and all
>Aussies reading this - I just couldn't resist, though maybe I should
>wait until after the cricket).
It would work on you too.. do you know what we sing during the seventh
inning stretch?
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 23:36:23 -0500
From: "R.D. Elliott"
Subject: Famille Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
Excerpted from Imperial Yachting Digest, IY 012-032
"So how was your extended sabbatical in the Sayat Concourse?", I asked
Hengabar Spofulam, accepting the tall glass of murky red fluid from Famille
Spofulam's dreadlocked hereditary Patriarch and CEO.
"Marvelous!" he replied, swallowing a mouthful of his drink. "Fascinating
culture, a real flair for ritual, and wonderful cuisine, too. Take this
for example" he said, hoisting his glass. "Verthig blood, spiked with
herb-flavoured ethanol and some local garnishes. Tasty, and very
nutritious. Don't worry; they're not sentient. The Sayat love this stuff.
Drink it all the time. They drink enough of it, some of them start
forgetting they're parthenogenetic and you're the only male they've ever
seen. Another thing I picked up are the shades", he added, pointing to the
dark glasses he wore "Sayat are big on shades..."
Sipping politely at my drink, I changed the subject from the reason for Mr.
Spofulam's three-year absence from the Imperium to the trio of brand
spanking new racing yachts hanging from docking tubes outside the panoramic
viewport. "So... the first new Famille Spofulam ship design in two years.
Would you care to tell our readers about it?"
Mr. Spofulam's beard split in a grin as he replied "Well, that's what I
thought this interview was all about! All right... from the top; one thing
that's almost a pan-human absolute is racing. From TL-0 nomads racing
their mounts, to powered vehicles of every sort (including our grav bikes),
people like to race things. And the richer they get, generally the bigger
the things they like to race, and the faster those things get. One thing
in particular that's always fascinated me about Terran history is yacht
racing; wet yachts, the kind that float in water. They took racing those
things incredibly seriously: founded clubs, spent inordinate amounts of
time and money and effort on it, especially the sail-powered ones, and this
has left cultural echoes down to this day. Look at the Imperial Yacht Club
and the title of your zine, for example".
"However, one thing that yachting has dropped over the millenia, in the
translation from ocean to space, is this emphasis on racing. Look at the
major classes of yachts out there these days; the Lady of Shallott, the
Caligula, the Imelda... they're all wonderful vessels, and distinctive
statements of taste and refinement on the part of the exclusive and
privileged few that own them, but they're basically floating party wagons!
No zip, no zing, no adrenaline. Even going flat-out you won't feel a thing
through the G-comps; they're meant for comfort, not sport. And sport is
what we're trying to bring back to the Imperial yachting scene with the
J-class" he said, gesturing at the sleek vessels outside the viewport.
"So they're sporting vessels, are they? How many G's do they pull?" I asked.
"Very precisely 16.4 Gs with full tanks and a full crew" he replied, "and
once they're running on fumes, a hair over 19 Gs. Of course, what with the
G-comps and G-Tanks, the crew will feel _at most_ a subjective 14 G's. But
still, we think that that's pretty impressive. They'll pull away from
anything out there like it was standing still: fighters, our own
Moonshines, some missiles, you name it".
Momentarily forgetting what it was, I took a large swig from my drink.
"Excuse me? Did you say those things accelerate at 16.4 Gs?" I said,
incredulously. Suddenly, I was beginning to regret my invitation.
"Indeed I did, and indeed they do" said Mr. Spofulam. "Here; let's board
ours" he continued, gesturing towards a door, which irised open.
As he led us down a corridor towards a boarding tube, he began describing
the J-class: "First off, the hull; superdense, 350 tons displacement, 40
meter by 4 disc, with a classic aeroshell planform; they're built to be
capable of aerobraking. Secondly, the drives; four big HEPlaR units. We
went with HEPlaR because thrusters just don't have the oomph for this kind
of vessel; topping out at 6 Gs just wouldn't do here, and besides, you
should see the drive plumes! The drives are powered by an enormous Fusion+
plant; a shade over 1900 megawatts, to be precise. As far as we know, it's
the biggest Fusion+ plant installed in a spacecraft to date. Thirdly, some
fuel tanks, some more fuel tanks, and lots more fuel tanks, plus some
minimal commo and sensor gear, and a small closet for food and sanitary
supplies. And fourthly, four G-tanks, and that's about it!"
"The whole aim of this class is to build a yacht with some real performance
numbers; in fact, we've kind of done the opposite of what we've done with
our previous yachts, and made no concessions to comfort in our quest for
sheer brute acceleration. I was going on just now about yachting and
tradition, and how long after more advanced forms of propulsion were
available the yachtsmen of the past would cling to sail in the name of
tradition... well, the J-class is going to give today's yachtsman a taste
of tradition hearking back to the early days of spacefaring. Quite
frankly, there are TL-6 space capsules in the museums with more elbow room
than this..."
I was beginning to recover from my surprise; I had been expecting a voyage
of sybaritic comfort, and now it looked like I was going to be stuffed into
a G-Tank and subjected to higher accelerations than anyone in their right
mind would care to think about. Before I could figure out how to suddenly
yet gracefully back out of this little joy ride, we arrived at a locker
room and were accosted by a swarm of efficient young Spofulam techs who
rapidly helped us disrobe and change into G-suits. I went along with it,
drawing the line only when one of the more winsome ones said "Bend over,
sir, and I'll insert the ProctoProd".
Mr Spofulam, temporarily out of sight behind his locker, said " I'd
recommend going with the ProctoProd; pumps your digestive tract full of
smart gel, which is pressure-adjusted to support your internal organs under
high G's. Plus, there's the rectal electro-shock GLOC-prevention function;
keeps you awake to enjoy the ride..."
Resignedly, I did as the tech suggested, and bent over. With a little
lubrication, it wasn't as uncomfortable as I had supposed. Mr Spofulam
continued: "In fact, the ability to retain consciousness under high G's is
going to be vital to winning races in the J's; there are safety interlocks
in place that cut the drives if the pilot passes out, despite the Combat
Drug injections and ProctoProdding. Hence, he who stays awake longest can
accelerate to higher velocities and wins the race. Of course, slower
accelerations over time are another route, but pushing blackout before
throttling back to more sustainable accelerations will get you that extra
edge..."
As we descended the boarding tube in our G-suits, Mr Spofulam continued:
"Plus, another factor to consider is fuel consumption; J's only carry
enough fuel for 138 G-Hours. So, the winning yachtsman will have to watch
his fuel gauge carefully. Of course, the fact that these things are
designed for aerobraking adds another factor to the equation; a really
daring pilot could burn all his fuel accelerating, and then brake at the
end of the race by good old fashioned atmosphere surfing". He paused as
the airlock cycled, then continued "Or, depending on how the course is laid
out, you could use an aerobrake to adjust your flight path without
expending fuel..."
Inside the airlock was a cramped chamber, containing four crew G-Tanks
standing against the aft wall, two of which were already occupied by rather
small crewmembers. Mr Spofulam gestured at them: "A couple of my
great-nieces will be flying us today; that's Ditzie in the pilot's seat,
and Wiiniipiita on Nav. You'll take Commo, and I'll fly Engineer". Two of
the techs assisted me into the G-Tank, strapping me in and intubating me
for respiratory fluid. They closed the G-Tank lid, and G-fluid began
rising about me. My lungs were suddenly pumped full of oxygenated
respiratory fluid; like the smart gel, it was meant to serve a supportive
function under G as well as provide oxygen transport. It was only about
half as unpleasant as it sounded. A course plot appeared on the G-tank
viewscreen, and Mr. Spofulam explained...
"Now, Wiiniie has got the following trajectory set up for us: firstly, we
haul out of here at about maximum G or as close to it as we oldsters can
stand, straight out for Sylea High Port. We pull a radical trajectory
change around the High Port, adjusting our orbital plane so that we're
headed for Ling's Orbital Manufactory Plant, which we buzz. I figured I'd
let those clowns know I was back in-system. We do another hair-pin around
that, boost some more, and then do a deep aerobrake through Sylea's
atmosphere, right over the DownPort, calculated to bring us back to
Spofulam Orbital HQ with minimal fuel used for deceleration. It'll look
damn spectacular; like a bloody great bolide. And don't worry about Sylea
Traffic Control on the aerobrake; we've budgeted the fines into our
marketing effort for this baby".
As I attempted to digest this, there was a brief thunk as the boarding tube
disconnected, followed by a few jolts as we maneuvered away from Spofulam
HQ. An outside view of our ship was superimposed over the trajectory plot
on my viewscreen; I saw our large, graceful saucer-like vessel drift slowly
away from the camera. A few seconds later, the aft end of the yacht
erupted in incandescent brilliance as Ditzie pegged the throttle. Mr.
Spofulam was right; the drive plume was beyond spectacular. A hypo pressed
against my shoulder, and Combat Drug began to scream along my nerve paths.
As I was slammed (despite the G-comps and the G-Tank) backwards and began
to lose consciousness, I realized that I was in for one wild ride. Then
the ProctoProd kicked in...
****
Designer's comments:
I shouldn't have to comment on how a J could be worked into just
about any campaign...
I did this using Andrew Akins' FF&S Spreadsheet. Many thanks,
Andrew. USP follows. As I had to use my PC at work to generate it, and
import the results as text for my poky old Mac at home, formatting is a
little messy. All the vital stats are there though. I've edited it only
roughly, as it's getting late...
"Celeritous, J-Class class Match Racing Yacht (FF&S v2)"
Designed by Famille Spofulam Design Bureau
Statistics
Tons: 350std ( SL Thin Disc Hypersonic )
Crew: 4/4
Cargo: 0std (0/00)
Volume: 4900m3
Passengers High/Med: 0/0
Cost: 15.142 MCr
Mass (L/C): 2387t/2051t
Passengers Low: 0
Maintenance Points: 57
Dimensions: 39.6m x 39.6m x 4m
Troops/Science: 0/0
Tech Level: 12
Size: 8
Frozen Watch: 0
Electronics
"Controls: Dynamic, High automation. 3xComp (CM:1.0 CP:1.0).
No bridge."
"Communications: 1xRadio (5,000km, 0MW). 1xLaser (1,000AU, 0MW).
"Sensors: 1xPEMS (12.5 [1.6mkm], 0MW). 1xAEMS (8, 0.03MW). "
"Signatures: Vis:0.5, IR:0.5 (0.5 at 2022MW, 0 at 202MW), Act:0.5,
Neu:1, Grav:-2"
Weaponry: none
Performance: 16.4/19.1 Gs
Maneuver (/HEPlaR:1960MW,138 G-hours fuel)"
5000kph/5000kph Atmosphere (Crus:3750kph)
Power (Fission+:2022.19MW, 96 hrs fuel)"
Battery 0
Fuel 277
Accomodations 0/0/0/0/0
4 "Life Sup. (/Ty:St,Nm /'St)"
3 "G-Comp (/GTanks:0,4)"
0 ESA
0 Sandcasters
0 Damper Turrets
0 Damper Screen
0 Meson Screen
0 Force Field
0 Gravtics
10 [40] "Armor, 24 Structure"
Features
1xAirlock
Crew Details
2xMnvr. 1xElec. 1xEngr.
Roderick Darroch Elliott
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 23:41:13 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Yanks are coming [OT]
From: Thomas Vickers
> I wish I had the article that I read once, but that was in the days of
> learning to be a teacher myself. It pretty much said that the above
> idea is a very Western philosophy. In fact, a very American idea.
> Whereas the Japanese see things differently, ie. everyone can do
> everything, if they put their minds to it.
This was a relatively popular theory at one point, although it doesn't have
the same level of support these days. Certain learning disorders are
neurobiological in nature and require very specialized care and treatment.
If I remember correctly the Japanese have been looking into such learning
disabilities in the last few years. It would seem that they have such
learning disabilities but that they previously were not aware of them or
didn't acknowledge them.
Remember, in the West if someone had such a learning disability not that
long ago they were just considered "stupid" and the system simply could not
deal with them. If I remember correctly it was only within the last 5 years
or so that they discovered that dyslexia was located in the brain not the
visual system.
Remember, there are a hell of a lot of school-age suicides in Japan, so I'm
not entirely convinced that believing *everyone* can do *everything* is all
that great of a way to approach education.
> I will say this, you can find an approach that works for everyone.
Sure, but sometimes this is beyond the ability of a teacher who is not
trained to recognize or treat certain disorders. For example, in the case of
dyslexia an effective method of treatment is to not allow the right
hemisphere know that the left hemisphere is processing words.
> Someone may think they can't work with maps/math/ insert other ,
> but if you take the time to find the correct approach, they can and
> will grasp it.
No. Sometimes the brain's ability to process certain things is compromised.
The causes of dyslexia, for example, are not a matter of someone *thinking*
that they can't read or write. The suspected cause is a brain which does not
function in the same fashion that other brains do. The left hemisphere is
"weak", or the corpus callosum doesn't work right. Treatments based on
treating this suspected cause have been quite effective, from what I
understand.
That's the problem. No matter how much a dyslexic wants to get a handle on
reading or writing it can't happen without very specialized help. Period.
The bigger problem is that there are other learning disabilities which may
also have neurobiological roots and they are very difficult to research
properly. For example, it's entirely possible that someone might have a
malfunctioning right hemisphere and might have severe difficulties
processing music. However, it's possible to live and never *need* to process
music effectively so such a disorder may go unrecognized.
A lot of learning disorders have only been recognized as such recently.
That's not to say that they didn't exist before, but that nobody knew that
they were indeed real problems. In addition, early childhood is a crucial
time for picking up certain skills. There is some evidence that it becomes
extremely difficult to pick up certain skills later in life.
> A good example of this is doing multiplication or addition by
> counting on your fingers. In my school days, that was a huge no.
> Teachers freaked, called your parents, refused to let you do it.
> Today you are crazy to stop a kid from doing it. Its just their way of
> making sense of something. I hope that made sense.
It made sense, but what if the solution is one that the child or teacher is
extremely unlikely to stumble on? After all, if a child has trouble reading,
how likely are you to say "play this tape of words in your left ear as you
read these words, and play this tape of music in your right ear in order to
keep the left hemisphere busy."?
> Anyone can do anything, if they find a way to make sense of it. That
> is the hard part. Especially for us teachers.
That is unfortunately the really, really hard part.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 22:54:26 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Yanks are coming...
Thomas Vickers wrote:
>
<>
>
> PS. Send those military officers to me :) I have to teach map skills to 7th
> graders. Military types can't be too far from 7th graders.
True, as illustrated by one of the standard jokes in the US Army:
Q. What's the difference between the Army and the Boy Scouts?
A. The Boy Scouts have adult supervision.
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 22:57:18 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: MONTANA-class Battleship (T4/FF&S2) (longish)
Bruce Johnson wrote:
>
> Black ICE wrote:
> >
<>
> >
> > AuricTech Shipyards MONTANA-class Battleship
> >
> > Tons: 500,000 std (SL Medium Rounded Cylinder Hypersonic)
>
> Visualizing a half a megaton of something comming in through the
> atmosphere hypersonic.....
>
> "Moommmmyyyyyyy!"
Actually, it's _far_ worse than that. The actual loaded mass of a
MONTANA-class battleship is nearly 7.6 million metric tons. The
_volume_ is 500,000 dtons.
Gives a whole new slant on "Big Sky" (the state of Montana's nickname),
doesn't it? ;-)
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 20:49:44 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff
Subject: RE: Famille Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
It's a DAMN good thing I'd read the title and put my beer down!!
ROFLMAO!!!!!
Bravo on an outstanding return to the list Roderick!!
Very Best,
Jesse
> Excerpted from Imperial Yachting Digest, IY 012-032
>
>
> "So how was your extended sabbatical in the Sayat Concourse?", I asked
> Hengabar Spofulam, accepting the tall glass of murky red fluid
> from Famille
> Spofulam's dreadlocked hereditary Patriarch and CEO.
{{snip of outrageously cool racing yacht}}
> Roderick Darroch Elliott
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 23:12:10 -0600
From: Richard Wilson
Subject: Re: MONTANA-class Battleship (T4/FF&S2) (longish)
At 11:06 AM 3/14/00 -0700, you wrote:
>Black ICE wrote:
> > **begin transmission**
> >
> > AuricTech Shipyards MONTANA-class Battleship
> >
> > Tons: 500,000 std (SL Medium Rounded Cylinder Hypersonic)
>
>Visualizing a half a megaton of something comming in through the
>atmosphere hypersonic.....
>
>"Moommmmyyyyyyy!"
>
>--
>Bruce Johnson
>University of Arizona
>College of Pharmacy
>Information Technology Group
A warship that doesn't have to fire any weapons to make a ground attack. It
just has to make a quick fly-by. I can see this presenting quite an
air-defense dilemma. You don't shoot at it, it makes it's pass and does
shock-wave damage. Or you do shoot at it, and if you manage to shoot it
down, you have 500,000 dtons of heavy metal and fusion reactors moving
5,000+ kph crashing in your lap. Nice.
Richard Wilson
rtwilson@rollanet.org
========================================================================
Humanity is not something we should aspire to. It is something we should
strive to overcome.
========================================================================
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2083
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, March 15 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2084
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re Rules vs Setting
Spellcheckers
Re: Famille Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
Education
Re: Petty States for Eris (QUITE LONG)
re: Zuchai Crystals
Re: Petty States for Eris...
Re: What if
Call for help
Re: Jesse's Job Description
re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are"
Droyne (was Re: Parahumans and Solomani)
One more reason GT is not an Edition
RE: Jesse's Job Description
Re: Yanks are coming...
RE: Famille Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
Weather Control
Re: Famile Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2078
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 20:06:51 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Rules vs Setting
>Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 05:41:10 -0800 (PST)
>From: john hamilton
>Subject: Re: Best rules system and T5
>
>- --- "William F. Hostman" wrote:
>> >1.How many versions of Traveller have been released
>> at
>> >this point?
>>
>> IMHO: 4.5
>> CT, MT, TNE, T4
>> GT isn't quite a full edition IMHO...
>
>Actually,GT is as much Traveller as the other
>versions:the rules differences are huge,BUT:
There are numerous setting changes that are incompatable with the others,
as well.
>What brings people to play a RPG?
>The rules,or the setting (or with Gurps,the Settings)?
IME, the meshing of the rules and setting. Some rulesets work well for some
settings, lousy for others. I find GURPS to be generally "Anti-Traveller"
in rule mechanics. Incompatable basic assumptions with the "Look and Feel"
which even TNE and T4 maintained. GT is a major attempt to cross that
barrier, but I find the differences quite annoying, and dislike GURPS
mechanics in general, even though I used to run it a lot. As I have grown
older, GURPS has had far less appeal with each passing year. No offense to
Loren, but I don't feel that GT captured the "Look and Feel". While I like
GT:FT's trade mechanics, I'd have liked a set of tables for use with "Real
Traveller".
Likewise, TNE doesn't recreate the freewheeling nature of the Marches
1107-1115 campaigns I've run, but it does it's dark and hopeful setting
well; likewise, CT and MT don't work as well for the "Smash and Grabs" of
TNE... differing assumptions about combat.
>GtT published material which wasn't available for
>aeons( TNE and T$ biggest fault was that you didn't
>get anything about the mayor races,and MT wasn't good
>in it,either.) and will bring completly new things
>out,when they finished the somewhat reprint run of old
>CT books ( High Guard as Star Mercs,Alien Modules etc)
Since I already own a copy of almost every CT book, I'm interested in the
reprints for NEW players. One's who want a "Real Traveller" (their words,
this time, not mine, in this instance) instead of a GURPS adaptation. Most
of my traveller GMing friends use MT or TNE; the rest use CT with 1st Ed
Starfire grafted in. THey ALL use GURPS, but don't like GT. I leant one
friend my GT book, based upon a read, he decided that GT wasn't for him,
either, and won't buy it.
>Since T5 probably won't come out for a long time,it
>will remain the only currently published T (with
>exeption of BITS ,of course.(Of course,I can be
>complete wrong with that,but remember:
>there already is a very extensive T edition out
>there,the biggest ever,since you can use the other
>Gurps books,like Gurps Space,or even Aztecs,with it.
Are you sure that won't break the setting? TNE's cyber was commensurate
with that in TD issues __ & __ (for use with MT); with the MT established
regulations, it doesn't get too far out of line. But unrestrained grabs
from other (Especially older) GURPS books can create real problems, as the
older one had some differing assumptions about the same advantage
point-wise!
>A NEW Player wilhave to learn the rules anyway:chances
>are he chooses the System with FAR more supplements.
>And we ? Be honest:You already have your favorite
>T,for a long time.You probably will buy a few
>SELECTED supplements,if at all,which is not enough for
>a game to survive.That's basicly what I did with T4 (I
>latter purchased the whole run at a discount,after it
>already had been reduced in prize),who did the
>same?Many ,I assume.)
Funny, My FLGS seems to keep MT in stock. No TNE, Little T4, and very
little CT. And they keep moving.
Now, MWM at one point in private email explained to me not to be hopeful
for any MT reprints... apparently, he dislikes the system. Then again, that
was before T4. I bought much of T4. I bought most of TNE. I have every GDW
and DGP book (except 101 Robots and Grand Survey) for CT/MT, and am missing
the early TD's.
I don't take it personally. MWM wrote CT's mechanics. And MT changed them.
Including the work of several others, and apparently outsourced to DGP,
based upon the credits.
There is far more to "Traveller" than JUST the setting, or the rules. It's
a combination of game-philosphy, setting and mechanics. One which GURPS has
NEVER shared is the mechanics nor the game philosphy. Basically: Traveller
grew both setting and rules together, in an evolutionary method, and they
support each other. Therefore, the rules are tailored to the setting, and
the setting to the rules. GURPS, however, is a "Generic" engine, with the
philosophy that any setting can simply be grafted in. See the First Ed's
designer's notes. I've run G:B&B, and I've run the original B&B. The rules
for either work as well, as the original was not well suited... nor organic
to the setting. Traveller, however, has interlocking setting and rules
through the first three editions. But without Randomizeable CGen, quick
and easy rules (I find GURPS to be as cumbersome as
Spacemaster/Rolemaster), and allowign for much abuse by players who don't
already know the SETTING and it's limits on technology (much traveller high
tech (TTL10+/GTL 8+ have differing assumptions, and about that point, their
TL scales diverge rapidly), GT is really no better than using the CORPS,
Hero, or Storyteller engines for running traveller. The supplements for GT
are better than the ones for T4, but IMHO, not on par with those for MT. Or
even CT. I only own GT and GT:FT, and having read the others at my FLGS,
have not found anything worth grabbing for MTU, and since I don't use
GURPS, no reason to buy them. I'll buy T5, but not GT.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 00:15:07 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Spellcheckers
From:
> Great Gnu! Chris you're my hero!
Just don't tell me that I'm the wind beneath your wings, okay?
> I made ten typos just trying to type this post.
Speaking of typographical errors the above sentence almost contained "...the
wind beneath your wongs..." :)
> I *need* to spell check everything I write and that's even after I
> manually backspace and fix everything I notice while typing.
That's where my real problem comes in. I also tend to leave sentence
fragments in due to the nature of mail responses.
> Eris,
> and I've got a dictionary next to my computer that I use a lot.
> Problems is when I go to look up a word: one, I'm often so far
> off I can't *find* it in the dictionary; two, I get so
> interested in the definitions of the other words around the one
> I'm looking up it takes me 10 minutes to discover I can't find
> it...see, one.
Ha! I hear you on that. Get me near a really fat dictionary and I might have
my nose in it for hours, especially if the dictionary is an old one. It's
great to see a cross-section of a language frozen in time.
ObTrav: Differences in word meanings can be a lot of fun. There is a well
known example in the OTU, the pony express became the poni express for the
IISS logo. However, you can bring this down to the players' level. *Sure*
Galanglic is "standardized", but do you really think that every world that
speaks Galanglic uses the same words for everything? I think not!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 00:14:34 -0500
From: "Michael Peters"
Subject: Re: Famille Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
Ah, 'tis good to see the works or the Famille Spofulam Marketing and
Advertising Department back on the TML! It's been too darn dull for too long
(typical... flamewar, post, flamewar, flamewar about the flamewars, etc.).
Nothing like a bit of Spufulam marketing to force everyone back to the Deep
Shelters!
Rod, welcome back, and in such Grand style... I'd expect nothing less form
Hengabar chief chronicler. Hope for much more.
Mike
- ----- Original Message -----
From: R.D. Elliott
To:
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 11:36 PM
Subject: Famille Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
>
> Excerpted from Imperial Yachting Digest, IY 012-032
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 23:25:02 -0600
From: "Thomas Vickers"
Subject: Education
> It made sense, but what if the solution is one that the child or teacher
is extremely unlikely to stumble on?
That is why my we have special education departments :)
By the time a student gets to my class, they are usually identified if they
have a learning disorder. If they aren't, all it takes is quick call and
tests are taken care of.
Now, in the past this has been a problem, but good school systems have the
means to identify and service any and all learning disorders. If the
child can't receive the specialized education they need in my room, then
alternatives are provided.
Every year I spend tons of time reading over modification sheets for the
15-20 special ed students I have. I have to learn just what the kids need to
learn. The means to educate these kids is there, but schools have to be
willing to do it.
Even if they have none of the trendy disorders, they are evaluated according
to their needs and I get info on how to tailor my lessons to their needs.
So while I am very unlikely to know offhand how best to help a student, I do
have the ability to spot a problem, get the student evaluated and get the
answers I need.
Modern education is a wonder :)
TV
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 23:29:22 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Petty States for Eris (QUITE LONG)
Hey, Great!
Wow!
More, more!!
In the back of the MT Player's Book there are several maps. One is
of the Cultural Regions of the Imperium. If these regions retained
their cultural identity through the Third Imperium they would be
even more strong if it was stunted.
1. Solomani in the sectors around Terra
2. Vegans, the hole in the Solomani doughnut in the Vega sector.
3. Darmine in Zarushagar
4. Ilelish in Ilelish
5. The Syleans in Core, expanding out into Dagudashaag, Massila,
Lishun, Fornast and Delphi making up the Third Imperium
6. The Lancia in Gushemege and Dagudashaag
7. The Vilani in Vland, Lishun and Corridor
8. The Antares in Antares, Lishun, Ley and Fornast
It would make sense for there to be...
9. Petty states in Reaver' Deep, Daibei, part of Diaspora, Massila,
and Old Expanses forming a belt between the Solomani and the
other coreward states.
10. The Hive Federation in Spica and Langere
11. The Aslan Hierates to spinward of the Solomani and Reaver's
Deep
12. The Zhodani beyond the claw
13. The Vargr coreward of Vland and seeping into Meshan and Mendan
14. The K'kree far trailing of Ley and Glimmerdrift Reaches.
That would be an interesting situation will lots of interesting
possibilities for everything. There is a true frontier rimward
around the Solomani and Core-Trailing of Antares and Vland, perhaps
developed, but unexplored. Lots of chances for intrigue and
political maneuvering possible, and with all the gears spinning lots
of opportunities for merchants to grease the wheels and pirates to
wiggle though the cracks.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 16:42:29 +1000
From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au
Subject: re: Zuchai Crystals
Oh Drat! Someone's already answered my question in a previous post back in
TD#2065.
Sorry about the waste of bandwidth.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 00:55:38 -0500
From: Walt Smith
Subject: Re: Petty States for Eris...
Eris Reddoch wrote:
>In the back of the MT Player's Book there are several maps. One is
>of the Cultural Regions of the Imperium. If these regions retained
>their cultural identity through the Third Imperium they would be
>even more strong if it was stunted.
Maybe we'll even find the Azhanti, Luriani(sp?), and other minor races
of _Azhanti High Lightning_ fame...
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 01:07:08 -0500
From: Walt Smith
Subject: Re: What if
Dave Shayne wrote:
>>
>>While in an emergency it is possible to jump within twenty minutes of
>>jump exit, no one really wants to do that. A more usual procedure is
>>to spend about 16 hours doing maintenance checks on the drives before
>>you dump that big tank of hydrogen fuel through them again...making a
>>habit out of hot-jumping will eventually end you up sitting in an empty
>>parsec with a burned-out jump drive.
>
>I don't recall reading anything substantive on that score although I don't
>own everything published so I can have missed it. And such a limitation
>makes sense from a gameplay sense. My point was it wouldn't take a
>week. (which previous posters on this topic have sugested.)
High Guard 2nd Ed., p17:
"Because of the delicacy of jump drives, most ships perform maintenance
operations on their drives after every jump. It is possible for for a ship to
make another jump almost immediately (within an hour) after returning to
normal space, but standard procedures call for at least a 16 hour wait to
allow cursory drive checks and some recharging."
Not a week, true. If you're still using the 10% of hull per parsec, you'll
still need to arrange for fuel, though.
>>
>>Still, 16 hours is a lot shorter than a week. And pony-express style
>>boats can jump out within minutes of the incoming boat's arrival, allowing
>>an extensive enough X-Boat system to provide trans-Imperium
>>communications that take hours instead of months.
>>
>>Walt Smith
>
>And on well travelled routes the x-boat network will consist of the free
>traders that will already be jumping to the next system anyway.
Depends on whether the government trusts any old free trader to carry
the mail. And not every system will have ships going to every possible
destination every minute of the day, so you'll need dedicated messenger
ships to cover certain routes at certain times.
Do you see every starship as being required to carry memory banks
and transcievers dedicated to mail traffic?
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 22:49:21 +1100
From: "Katharine Whitchurch"
Subject: Call for help
Due to hard drive crashes, changing ISPs and stuff, I've lost quite a bit of
stuff I've written for the list over the years.
Could someone please send to me (off the list) copies of my Speculative
Trade Rules and Small Scale Colonisation in Traveller (I'm 98% sure they
were the exact titles).
Oh yeah, and has anyone actually kept a file of Ditzie's stuff ? I'm looking
for the exact technical specs of the Famile Spofulam 250- and 600 MJ rapid
fire lasers.
Ian
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 22:07:41 +1100
From: "Katharine Whitchurch"
Subject: Re: Jesse's Job Description
> From: Jesse DeGraff
> Subject: RE: And while I'm at it...
>
> Hallelujah, pass the ammo, and God help us all :)
>
> Best,
> Jesse
> Famile Spofulam Cartoonist
Jesse,
Just a quick note. We are claiming an estimated GCr 1.3 tax break on you as
the Famile Spofulam Artist-in-Residence. Please dont alert Our Friends On
Capital by calling yourself something as declasse as a cartoonist.
Yrs,
I. M. Noorvaas Abaat-Dizzie
Famile Spofulam Accountancy Division
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 21:27:01 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are"
>At 19:21 14.03.00, you wrote:
>> > >Your ( that's "you are" for oldtimers)
>>There're is no reason.I'm just (occasionally) do it.
>>
>> > No, "your" is a word in English that does not mean
>> > "you are." The proper
>> > contraction for "you are" is "you're."
>>I see it as a second-generation contraction of
>>"you're".
>
>No, he just speaks proper english.
>Sometimes, when surfing the web, the non-native speaker gets to wonder, if
>he speaks better english than the average american, when hee sees
>web-sights, their-there-they¥re mixups, etc.
>Makes ones toenails curl up sometimes...
Volker, most non-yanks I've encountered in North America speak better
english than the vast majority of yanks I've met. Best english I've heard
locally: Caedmon Liburd, professor of history, UAA, educated at Univ of the
Virgin Islands after a hitch in the Royal Navy as a singals/comm man. Worst
mangling locally: Theresa Obermeyer, former president of the local school
board, and now mayoral candidate, local object of detestation for bad
politics, and inappropriate use of purportedly english language in a
courtroom.
Fortunately, the local use of english is moderated by Anchorage being a
major melting pot, with english being the second language for about 1/4th
of the population, and a strong presence of British Petroleum and Brittish
Airways staffers imported from England.
Ob Trav: Similar stuff will happen throughout the 3I. Just remember that an
early JTAS had rules for "intelligibility" of Galanglic!
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 21:36:17 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Droyne (was Re: Parahumans and Solomani)
>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen
>
>Douglas E. Berry writes:
>
>>Remember that in the 3I era, nobody knows that the Droyne were the
>>Ancients. In fact, most Droyne are seen as rather pastorial, backwards
>>people, content to farm their little worlds. Even the Droyne don't
>>understand who they really are.
>
>Actually, according to AM5 the connection between the Droyne and the Ancients
>(though presumably not the exact details) were discovered "300 years ago". My
>take is that the date is 790.
>
>>There were only 421 Ancients. Yaskodray and his twenty kids, each of whom
>>had 20 kids of their own.
>
>"about 20 kids each". 421 is too exact a number.
>
Either 18 or 24 each would be more realistic, since it states in AM5 that
clutches are in lots of 6.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 21:40:44 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: One more reason GT is not an Edition
{This is an addenda to a previous post of today by myself. Sorry. Aimed for
John especially}
One more reason that GT isn't actually an edition: it's "Officially" an
extension of the classic setting, into an alternate non-rebellion timeline.
Since it is neither a new setting (although it changes lots of little
things), nor is it a traveller rules set (GT isn't actually a ruleset,
merely a supplement...), it's really not an "Edition".
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 22:29:50 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff
Subject: RE: Jesse's Job Description
ROFL!!!!
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Katharine
> Whitchurch
> Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 3:08 AM
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: Re: Jesse's Job Description
>
>
> > From: Jesse DeGraff
> > Subject: RE: And while I'm at it...
> >
> > Hallelujah, pass the ammo, and God help us all :)
> >
> > Best,
> > Jesse
> > Famile Spofulam Cartoonist
>
> Jesse,
>
> Just a quick note. We are claiming an estimated GCr 1.3 tax break
> on you as
> the Famile Spofulam Artist-in-Residence. Please dont alert Our Friends On
> Capital by calling yourself something as declasse as a cartoonist.
>
> Yrs,
>
> I. M. Noorvaas Abaat-Dizzie
> Famile Spofulam Accountancy Division
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 22:54:07 -0900
From: Peter Newman
Subject: Re: Yanks are coming...
Someone wrote
> Some people simply cannot work with numbers, others with
> spelling, and so on. Mostly, such people cannot work with certain
> abstracts (such as maps).
In GURPS, and by extension GURPS Trav, this (at least in
extreme cases) is the Non-Iconographic disad.
"Non-Iconographic -10 points
Your brain is completely incapable of processing abstract
images or symbols. Graphical computer interfaces, maps
heraldric devices and even magical runes are completely
meaningless to you." [GURPS Comp I p. 92]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 23:56:29 -0800
From: "Kelly St.Clair"
Subject: RE: Famille Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
...
I didn't think it was possible, but we now have something even scarier than
the MONTANA-class BB.
- --------------
Kelly St.Clair "You know, Brink, you've been acting funny ever since
kellys@efn.org you came back from the dead. (I can't believe I just
said that.)" -- Commander Boston Low, THE DIG
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 00:41:09 -0600 (CST)
From: houstonshocky@webtv.net
Subject: Weather Control
I have a question about TNE.
If a world has a pre colapse TL of say 15 with weather control
satellites and, after the collapse, is then dropped down to say TL 2 or
3 with all orbiting facilities destroyed, what would be the weather
patterns of this world.
Considering this world has had it's weather controlled for the past few
hundred years or so. Would the weather remain in it's controlled
behavior, revert to it's natural bahavior or behave in some other
manner?
Would this change be gradual or would it be a violent change?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 19:08:56 +1100
From: "Katharine Whitchurch"
Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 23:36:23 -0500
> From: "R.D. Elliott"
> Subject: Famille Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
>
I am in awe of this man.
> Excerpted from Imperial Yachting Digest, IY 012-032
>The drives are powered by an enormous Fusion+
> plant; a shade over 1900 megawatts, to be precise
Unfortunatly, I find Fusion Plus to be an abomination in the sight of God
and Man, and we therefore need to find a way to shoe-horn enough power into
this thing to be able to push it at 16-19 gees ... we need to scrape up 2000
megawatts, in short. Our other limit is that the J class has 138 G-hours,
which means roughly 8 hours at something close to full burn.
TL12 Fusion Plus delivers 4.8 MW for 2t of mass and 1m3 of volume.
We are therefore dealing with 421.29 m3 available for power plant, and a
mass allowance of 842t.
TL12 batteries deliver a basic 1.5 MW for an hour, for 1m3 and 2t of
batteries. Cutting it down to 6 minutes supply ups this to 7.5 MW for the 6
minutes. Enough batteries for 6 minutes at full burst (2023 MW) is therefore
270 m3/540 t.
This means we have a mass allowance of 302 t, or 75.5 m3 of Fusion plant for
151 MW of Fusion power. Assuming Life Support etc takes 6 MW, it will take
1.16 hours to refill the battery pack at 100% efficiency. Hmmm, it will
work, as long as you dont mind body-wrecking stints of 14 gees interupted by
long hours of recharging the power bay.
TL14 fusion plants, on the other hand, push to 3.99 MW per M3, once they get
to 1000 times the minium size of 0.25 m3, or 250 m3. They mass 3t per m3.
842t of TL14 fusion plant is 280.6 m3, which outputs about 1120 MW.
TL15 fusion plants push to a massive 7.98 MW per m3, once they get to 100
m3. They mass 2t per m3, so we have a winner. The power demand of 2023 MW
can be delivered by 253.5 m3/507t of TL15 fusion plant. Add a m3 of hydrogen
to run it at full bore for a day and a bit.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I proudly present to you the first cut of the Famile
Spofulam entry in the THUDDD competition for a TL15 Commerce Raider ... the
militarised J class Racing Yacht.
Replace TAKAFP power plant with TL15 fusion, as above. Cost is MCr 50.2
Add 1t of hydrogen fuel.
Add a Sens 14 TL15 PEMS for 50t of mass. Cost is MCr 250.
Add 4000 kN of Thruster Plates for 20t of mass. Cost is MCr 2.5
Add a 2m diameter TL15 750 MW X-ray laser. 3.14159*750*0.001=call it 2.5m3
volume focal array for 2.5t (range is about 4 light seconds, DV is about
97 - roughly 2 cm of enhanced bonded superdense, or 4.5 cm of superdense, or
34cm of hard steel). Call it MCr1, including a donation to FS' Legal
Expenses Fund
Add 882 MJ worth of accumulator for 31m3/62t. Call it MCr 0.5
Add a 500 000km Beam Pointer for 5m3/5t. Call it MCr 0.5
We have 189t of mass still to play with, so lets beef the ROF up to a Famile
Spofulam standard 24 shots per minute (it isnt as if this tub is short of
power, anyway). Mass of FA is up to 20t, cost is now MCr 8. 177 t of mass
left.
The laser array is 87t of mass total. Lets make it a three-pack, and add two
more (that should be enough to shred most ships in Civvy Orbit)
3t of mass left.
Add 1t Beer Fridge, 1t Stereo System and 1t Lighting System.
Someone else can do the stats for your favorite space combat system.
Ian Whitchurch
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 07:18:20 +1100
From: "Karen and Michael Hughes"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2078
> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:44:10 PST
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> Subject: Re: Back in the saddle
>
> In mail you write:
>
> > PPS First session went well. Using old Trav Journal freaky disease
outbreak
> > scenario re-set on a heavy metal exraction plant (ie Oil Refinary
platform
> > for a RW like-example) on a storm wracked (ie can't get off until break
in
> > the weather) water world.
> >
> > I is evil.
> >
> > PS I don't want no Heavy Metal Extraction cannot be done from water crap
OR
> > any supporting statements to back it up. I am science dumb, not proud of
it
> > but too stubborn to change.
> >
> > Leonard this means you.
>
> Would you be interested in some speculation about what sort of
> conditions on-world would *make* heavy metal extraction from seawater
> more practical? Some of the possibilities would make for interesting
> background and hazards.
>
> On the other hand, they might also contradict stuff you've already told
> players...
>
> - --
> Leonard >
N'kay hit me. World in question is Size 9, Atmosphere 9 and orbits a gas
giant - consequently a lot of tidal stuff and said planet is storm
racked. - Nasemin 3003 B98A422-B S Ni Wa 612 Im K2 V
I have said that there are massive extractors set up in the path of a strong
current which extracts the good'in then pumps it back into the current half
a kay away.
Your time starts now.
PS Thanks.
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2084
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, March 15 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2085
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
That's Cricket (was Re: That's not Cricket!)
Re: Droyne (was Re: Parahumans and Solomani)
Re: MONTANA-class Battleship (T4/FF&S2) (longish)
Re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are"-or humor and the TML [sic]
Re: What if
and here's what it looks like...-sorry,that's just the same again
Re: Re Rules vs Setting
RE: 'Parahumans' and the "Vilani Test"
Re: Parahumans and Solomani
RE: 'Parahumans' and heretical Solomani
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are" [sic]
yusin "your" insted ow "you are"
Re: Grand Explorations & AI
Re: Spellcheckers
Re: Parahumans and Solomani
Re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are" [sic]
Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 19:40:14 +1100
From: "Rob Knight"
Subject: That's Cricket (was Re: That's not Cricket!)
Matthew Bond wrote:
> There are two teams. The one that is in is determined by a coin toss. The
> team that is in goes out to bat, and the team that isn't in goes in to the
> field. The team that is in stays in until they are all out, when they go
in,
> and the other team, that is now in, goes out. When they are out they go
in,
> and the first team comes out to go in. After they are out they go back in
> and the second team comes out to go in again. When these are all out the
> game ends, and the team that has score the most wins, and both sides go
in.
> They then go out to drink warm beer.
Cricket is almost identical, the only exception (but very important to note)
is that after the game, both sides go out to drink cold beer! ;-)
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 00:05:57 -0900
From: Peter Newman
Subject: Re: Droyne (was Re: Parahumans and Solomani)
"William F. Hostman" wrote
> >>There were only 421 Ancients. Yaskodray and his twenty kids, each of whom
> >>had 20 kids of their own.
> >"about 20 kids each". 421 is too exact a number.
> Either 18 or 24 each would be more realistic, since it states in AM5 that
> clutches are in lots of 6.
Just because Droyne come in clutches of 6 does not necessarily
mean that Ancients came in clutches of 6 - Grandfather was a
mutant after all. Moreover we don't know that Grandfather had
his children the old fashioned way Grandfather could have
introduced some technology into the process.
I have always wondered if Grandfathers children weren't clones.
Droyne reproduction is weird enough as is that Grandfather may
not have fit into the normal process. Notice that he had only
sons, and apparently Alpha males only at that.
If you want to drag one of the assumptions of Asimov's
Foundation series into Traveller you could assume that
Grandfather, like Asimov's Mule, was a sterile mutant.
Unlike the Mule, however, Grandfather benefited from an
author who had heard of cloning.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:36:11 +1300
From: a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
Subject: Re: MONTANA-class Battleship (T4/FF&S2) (longish)
On 14 Mar 00, at 23:12, Richard Wilson wrote:
> At 11:06 AM 3/14/00 -0700, you wrote:
> >Black ICE wrote:
> > > Tons: 500,000 std (SL Medium Rounded Cylinder Hypersonic)
> >Visualizing a half a megaton of something comming in through the
> >atmosphere hypersonic.....
> A warship that doesn't have to fire any weapons to make a ground attack. It
> just has to make a quick fly-by. I can see this presenting quite an
> air-defense dilemma. You don't shoot at it, it makes it's pass and does
> shock-wave damage. Or you do shoot at it, and if you manage to shoot it down,
> you have 500,000 dtons of heavy metal and fusion reactors moving 5,000+ kph
> crashing in your lap. Nice.
Actually any Captain who takes this puppy anywhere near a defended
planet would certainly deserve his/her posthumous court-marshall. Close
aerospace around a defended world is not battleship territory. Orbital fire
support is the domain of specialist ships. They have to be tiny and nibble
(fighters) or small and heavily armoured (SDBs).
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 01:39:40 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are"-or humor and the TML [sic]
- --- "Kelly St.Clair" wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Mar 2000 17:03:10 -0500, "Chris Seamans"
> wrote:
>
> >From: Russell Bornschlegel
> >>
> >> > There're is no reason.I'm just (occasionally)
> do it.
> >>
> >> Tell me this isn't a troll. Come on. I dare you.
> >
> >I honestly don't think that John is a troll. If he
> were a troll he would
> >have either left by now or would have continued to
> argue concerning his
> >initial posting.
>
> I don't think so either. More likely, IMO, he's
> part of the distressingly
> large class of people who are congenitally unable to
> admit that they were
> wrong. That, and he prefers not to waste his time
> on things like spacing
> or using proper English. Sp4c3s r 4 l0s3rs, d00d!
Well,I make a short, ironic ,humorous OT post full of
intentional bad grammar and spelling,and people think
I'm trying to insult them.Sorry,but aren't you taking
this thing too serious?
Ynteresttinc................
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 05:25:16 -0500
From: "DaveShayne"
Subject: Re: What if
>Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 01:07:08 -0500
>From: Walt Smith
>Subject: Re: What if
>High Guard 2nd Ed., p17:
>"Because of the delicacy of jump drives, most ships perform maintenance
>operations on their drives after every jump. It is possible for for a ship
to
>make another jump almost immediately (within an hour) after returning to
>normal space, but standard procedures call for at least a 16 hour wait to
>allow cursory drive checks and some recharging."
I'll have to reread that. Don't see how I could have missed it.
>>And on well travelled routes the x-boat network will consist of the free
>>traders that will already be jumping to the next system anyway.
>
>Depends on whether the government trusts any old free trader to carry
>the mail.
Why wouldn't they. Encrypt the messages and it's as safe from unauthorized
access as any X-Boat. And since you've subsidized the ship the owner/captain
is going to owe you as well as fear you. Skipping becomes a much less viable
strategy for the harrased merchant captain than in the OTU.
>And not every system will have ships going to every possible
>destination every minute of the day, so you'll need dedicated messenger
>ships to cover certain routes at certain times.
Well I did say on "well travelled routes" The question of how much
trade would suffice for a trade route to be called well travelled is
a bit beyond my ability but I'd guess that between planets of millions
of inhabitants with an average time in transit of 1 day many thousands of
DTons of shipping could move in a day. Again I don't know what the threshold
of economic utility is but It has to be lower than with a two week
turnaround.
>
>Do you see every starship as being required to carry memory banks
>and transcievers dedicated to mail traffic?
>
>Walt Smith
Why not. If you give over a DTon or two for message transmission you've
got some fairly large bandwidth. And you can probably make due with
small craft sized accomodations for passengers on J1 routes making
the smaller remaining volume more profitable.
Which brings to mind some other effects that only just now occured to me.
Forget about low passage berths. Acceleration couches work just as well
up to 24 hours without the high mortality of cold sleep. Which will result
in
greater mobility for the unwashed masses of the galaxy. Which will mean
even more traffic between worlds resulting in more potential messenger
ships.
Again these are just ramblings I don't realy have a clue.
David Shayne
+++++++++++++++++++++
Veni, Vidi, Vacca.
I came, I saw, I had a cow
- Bart Caeser
+++++++++++++++++++++
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 02:21:11 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: and here's what it looks like...-sorry,that's just the same again
- --- Rob Eaglestone wrote:
> OPTION I:
> ---------
>
> Rulebook: same size as "The Traveller Book", with
> pretty much
> the same proportion of material as said
> book.
>
> Most of these sections are laid out so as
> to be mini-games
> in their own right, allowing solitaire
> play.
>
> Summary pages encapsulate rules, and
> flowcharts in some
> circumstances streamline process.
>
> Artwork is good, appropriate, and supports
> the text.
> Mark Cook and Jesse DeGraff spring to
> mind.
>
> PLAYTESTED and PROOFREAD.
>
> intro
> basic chargen, T4-like stat rules & aging
> basic equipment, vehicles
> basic skills & task system
> basic combat (fast, painful, and seamless
> with ship combat!)
> basic encounter handling (animal + people)
> basic worldgen
> basic starship gen & combat (seamless with
> personal combat!)
> (perhaps use a revised Mayday or
> RPSCS?)
> basic travel, trade & commerce
> basic psionics
> basic introduction to the milieu (ca. 200)
>
> Sourcebooks:
>
> milieu sourcebook perhaps...
> or a couple good adventures that convey the
> same info.
>
> citizens: all careers, basic and advanced
> gen systems...
> Perhaps a more detailed combat system
> here.
Sorry,but your proposal is far to rules-oriented.All
rules should be contained in the Basic Set,which would
have the side-effect that TNE or MT or even GT gamers
could buy the sourcebooks.
"milieu sourcebooks perhaps"?You mean many
rulebooks,but a SETTING is rather optional?
Now,there are more rules- and more background-oriented
gamers.But new players don't buy rules,they buy
settings.And old gamers stick to the rules they play
with for sometimes decades now.
> OPTION 2:
> ---------
> Break the books into 3 main rulebooks a la MT, and
> parcel
> out the remainder into sourcebooks.
That wouldn't sell many books.Who's gonna pick-up 3
books at once?
Many gamers pick up a new game and then decide if
they should play it.But with 3 books with as good as
no background?It worked with the CT cause there
weren't many SF RPGs out there at it's time.
>
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 02:43:11 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: Re Rules vs Setting
>
>
> >Since T5 probably won't come out for a long time,it
> >will remain the only currently published T (with
> >exeption of BITS ,of course.(Of course,I can be
> >complete wrong with that,but remember:
> >there already is a very extensive T edition out
> >there,the biggest ever,since you can use the other
> >Gurps books,like Gurps Space,or even Aztecs,with
> it.
>
> Are you sure that won't break the setting?
The question is:Why are you gaming? For fun? Or to
"worship" the setting?I think this is a fundamental
difference between newer players and older:The older
are obsessed with cannon,while many GURPS gamers
already use ,for example ,magic ( the Spacers landing
on the planet (basicly the Yrth setting) with mages is
probably THE GURPS Space Clichee)
in it.And Cyborgs.And probably the occasional Cthulhu
encounter.
BTW, Aztecs just describes a TL2 world; just replace
magic with Psi.
TNE's
> cyber was commensurate
> with that in TD issues __ & __ (for use with MT);
> with the MT established
> regulations, it doesn't get too far out of line. But
> unrestrained grabs
> from other (Especially older) GURPS books can create
> real problems, as the
> older one had some differing assumptions about the
> same advantage
> point-wise!
The GM decides the cost,It's that simple.
>
> There is far more to "Traveller" than JUST the
> setting, or the rules. It's
> a combination of game-philosphy, setting and
> mechanics.
Sorry,but this is to mystiefied.It's a RPG ,not a
philosophy.And people don't buy philosophies in game
shops,
One
> William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 03:00:58 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: RE: 'Parahumans' and the "Vilani Test"
- --- Jason Postma wrote:
> I don't think y
> My understanding was that there is a simple test
> that can determine
> whether you are a Solomani by your genetics (and
> even whether you're
> "pure" or not). Personally I have my doubts about
> this, unless they're
> just tracking one particular gene group (at which
> point it's not
> testing purity anymore).
The vilani descend from a rather small stock brought
to Vland,isolated for 300000 years from the
Solos.That is enough to give them distinctive genetic
markers sufficient to identify your Vilani heritage.
There is probably such a test for applicants of
gouverment jobs.
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 03:07:06 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: Parahumans and Solomani
- --- Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
> Douglas E
> Actually, according to AM5 the connection between
> the Droyne and the Ancients
> (though presumably not the exact details) were
> discovered "300 years ago". My
> take is that the date is 790.
According that the Artifacts of the A. are designed
for Droyne,the connection had to occur the instant
both when both are known.That simply cannot take
centuries.Perhaps the Vilani already knew.(After all,
they had a reason for Ancients research,as they had to
find out where they from,cause they surly didn't
origin on Vland.
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 03:08:46 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: RE: 'Parahumans' and heretical Solomani
- --- "Douglas E. Berry"
wrote:
> At 05:19 PM 3/14/2000 -0700, you wrote:
>
> >I don't think you build a racial supremacy theory
> on genetics - you use
> >genetics as support to your racial supremist
> theory.
>
> The Nazis used the superiority of the Aryan "race"
> as a benchmark before
> DNA was discovered. They simply used extensive
> genological research.
Their equivalent of dna testing were measurments of
skull dimensions
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Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 00:52:34 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
On 14 Mar 00, at 20:09, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> At 11:40 AM 3/15/2000 +1300, you wrote:
>
> >That's cruelty to dumb animals, that is (With appoligies to any and all
> >Aussies reading this - I just couldn't resist, though maybe I should wait
> >until after the cricket).
>
> It would work on you too.. do you know what we sing during the seventh
> inning stretch?
Tie Me Kangaroo Down, Sport?
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:59:36 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are" [sic]
At 01:17 15.03.00, you wrote:
>I know that most Americans cease formal study of English at or before
>age 18. Is it more common for non-native speakers of English to learn
>the language at an early age, or in adulthood?
Hmmm, i started in fourth grade and had it up to thirteenth grade
= 10 years in school
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 04:02:24 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: yusin "your" insted ow "you are"
- --- "Douglas E. Berry"
wrote:
> At 12:05 PM 3/14/2000 -0800, you wrote:
> >john hamilton wrote:
> >> - --- "Douglas E. Berry"
>
> >> wrote:
> >> > At 02:00 AM 3/13/2000 -0800, you wrote:
> >> >
> >> > >Your ( that's "you are" for oldtimers)
> >> There're is no reason.I'm just (occasionally) do
> it.
> >
> >Tell me this isn't a troll. Come on. I dare you.
>
> He does seem to be swinging back that way. sad,
> because he actual seemed to
> make a few good points.
You make a short joke,and people loose their
mind.Fantaaastic.Great.Realy.Marvelous.
But it's my fault.I didn't realize that Traveller
should be discussed with religious awe.
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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 07:09:04 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: Grand Explorations & AI
In a message dated 3/14/00 7:14:41 PM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
> Are you associated with the ol'Bosie DGP group? I wonder if parts of their
> _AI_ SFRPG are posted anywhere? You know kind of like the notes section in
> MJ#4 that listed most of DGP's MT ideas.
>
> Abel.
> (Yes I was one of the foolish ones to order an advance copy of that game
for
> $15! No I'm not looking to get my money back; I'd just be happy to read
some
> working notes.)
No. I just knew most of the writer's.
No copies of their AI material is on the web that I know of, I do have what
little there was running around somewhere but not much. It needed a lot of
work, IMO.
Last word I heard on it officially was that Joe was supposed to finish a
novel on it back around 1995 or so and publication should have been soon
after.
Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 01:10:01 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Spellcheckers
On 15 Mar 00, at 0:15, Chris Seamans wrote:
> Ha! I hear you on that. Get me near a really fat dictionary and I might
> have my nose in it for hours, especially if the dictionary is an old one.
> It's great to see a cross-section of a language frozen in time.
When my sister was doing her English Masterate (sp?) she was allowed to
use the university's original copy of Samuel Johnson's dictionary. I
volunteered myself to help her take notes and then promptly swiped the
dictionary. It was so neat (if you have the opportunity look up
"oats").
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 16:32:43 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Re: Parahumans and Solomani
At 12:07 15.03.00, you wrote:
>According that the Artifacts of the A. are designed
>for Droyne,the connection had to occur the instant
>both when both are known.That simply cannot take
>centuries.Perhaps the Vilani already knew.(After all,
>they had a reason for Ancients research,as they had to
>find out where they from,cause they surly didn't
>origin on Vland.
However, most devices were so mysterious, that it wasn´t even clear WHAT
they were designed for. Many of the more obvious clues were only discovered
by Player Characters in the Secret of the Ancients trilogy, roundabout 1106.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 07:32:31 -0500
From: "Josh W. Spencer"
Subject: Re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are" [sic]
Kelly St.Clair wrote:
>
> I don't think so either. More likely, IMO, he's part of the distressingly
> large class of people who are congenitally unable to admit that they were
> wrong. That, and he prefers not to waste his time on things like spacing
> or using proper English. Sp4c3s r 4 l0s3rs, d00d!
I think what most kids fail to realize is that the corporate worlds loom
ever larger as they approach adulthood. Their rules are set in STONE
compared to what they're used to. They have a choice: learn to conform (by
learning proper English language grammar and spelling) or simply not work
for one. Notice I'm not saying that not working for a corp is bad; quite the
contrary. This is simply what is there.
- --
Josh
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:41:52 +0000
From: Ewan Quibell
Subject: Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
> Well, its quite simple really.
>
> There are two teams. The one that is in is determined by a coin toss. The
> team that is in goes out to bat, and the team that isn't in goes in to the
> field. The team that is in stays in until they are all out, when they go in,
> and the other team, that is now in, goes out. When they are out they go in,
> and the first team comes out to go in. After they are out they go back in
> and the second team comes out to go in again. When these are all out the
> game ends, and the team that has score the most wins, and both sides go in.
> They then go out to drink warm beer.
>
> See, simple.
>
>
>
> Matt
But you missed all the good stuff like, runs, wickets, maidens, silly
mid ons, silly mid offs, slips, leg buys, wides, and many more ...
Ewan
- --
Ewan Quibell Their's not to make reply,
Senior Communications Engineer Their's not to reason why,
Computer Centre Their's but to do and die:
University of Brighton Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk Alfred, Lord Tennyson
#include
My spelling is entirerly due to dyslexia, typos, and poetic license
University of Brighton - Sunday Times' University of the Year
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:52:13 +0000
From: Ewan Quibell
Subject: Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
>
> On 03/15/00 at 01:00 AM, "Matthew Bond" said:
>
> >Well, its quite simple really.
>
> >There are two teams. The one that is in is determined by a coin toss. The
> >team that is in goes out to bat, and the team that isn't in goes in to
> >the field. The team that is in stays in until they are all out, when they
> >go in, and the other team, that is now in, goes out. When they are out
> >they go in, and the first team comes out to go in. After they are out
> >they go back in and the second team comes out to go in again. When these
> >are all out the game ends, and the team that has score the most wins, and
> >both sides go in. They then go out to drink warm beer.
>
> >See, simple.
>
> For someone that understands baseball, that explanation made *perfect* sense. The only question I have is how do those that are in get out, so those that are out can come in? ;-J
>
> Eris
The bowler in the team that is out, bowls the ball at the batsman who is
in, in the team which is in, who is trying not to get out. The batsman
can be out many ways, but what is also important to note is that he can
also be not out. When all the batsman who are in are out, including not
out, the team that was in goes out and the team which was out goes in.
How's that ?
Ewan
- --
Ewan Quibell Their's not to make reply,
Senior Communications Engineer Their's not to reason why,
Computer Centre Their's but to do and die:
University of Brighton Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk Alfred, Lord Tennyson
#include
My spelling is entirerly due to dyslexia, typos, and poetic license
University of Brighton - Sunday Times' University of the Year
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:04:50 +0000
From: Phil Kitching
Subject: Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
Eris asked:
>On 03/15/00 at 01:00 AM, "Matthew Bond" said:
>
>
>>Well, its quite simple really.
>
>>There are two teams. The one that is in is determined by a coin toss. The
>>team that is in goes out to bat, and the team that isn't in goes in to
>>the field. The team that is in stays in until they are all out, when they
>>go in, and the other team, that is now in, goes out. When they are out
>>they go in, and the first team comes out to go in. After they are out
>>they go back in and the second team comes out to go in again. When these
>>are all out the game ends, and the team that has score the most wins, and
>>both sides go in. They then go out to drink warm beer.
>
>>See, simple.
>
>For someone that understands baseball, that explanation made *perfect* sense.
>The only question I have is how do those that are in get out, so those that
>are out can come in? ;-J
What you have to realise is that when the team that is in goes out,
only their first two players go out - the two out are in. The rest
of the team stay in (the pavillion). Then the bowlers bowl, the
fielders field and the batsmen bat, until one of the batsmen is out,
when he goes in and the next who was in comes out and is in.
This continues until there is no one who is not in and who has not
been out to replace the one who was in and is now out. At this point
the whole team is out, including the player who is still in and is
considered to be not out and counts his score but not being in to his
average. Note that whilst the players who were in come in to join
those that were in and are now out, before they come back out, the side
that was out comes in but before it goes out to be in, the two sides
have a break that is called "an Early Tea".
Unless England was in and is now out, when it is usually called "lunch".
I hope this clarifies the finer points.
Phil Kitching
- --
http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
"Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2085
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, March 15 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2086
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
Re: Vs: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are"
Re: MONTANA-class Battleship (T4/FF&S2) (longish)
Re: Droyne (was Re: Parahumans and Solomani)
Re: Famile Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
RE: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab
Re: Parahumans and Solomani
RE: 'Parahumans' and heretical Solomani
Re: Vilani history and mindset
Re: ACQ
Re: Parahumans and Solomani
Re: ACQ
Re: Parahumans and Solomani
Re: Weather Control
Re: and here's what it looks like...-sorry,that's just the same again
Re: Parahumans and Solomani
Re: Parahumans and Solomani
Re: Re Rules vs Setting
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:39:58 +0000
From: Ewan Quibell
Subject: Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
> Unless England was in and is now out, when it is usually called "lunch".
>
> I hope this clarifies the finer points.
> Phil Kitching
Or "breakfast" ...
- --
Ewan Quibell Their's not to make reply,
Senior Communications Engineer Their's not to reason why,
Computer Centre Their's but to do and die:
University of Brighton Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk Alfred, Lord Tennyson
#include
My spelling is entirely due to dyslexia, typos, and poetic license
University of Brighton - Sunday Times' University of the Year
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:37:24 -0500
From: "Sword-Worlder"
Subject: Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
Okay, I get the ins and outs. But what about the ons? I mean, you don't
get points for all of those ins and outs, do you?
ObTrav: Local (subsector) TAS organizations make most of their money by
selling "TAS Guides" to vacationers and business travelers. The Guides give
a concise explanation of local customs, rules and cultural quirks. Don't
leave the Downport without it!
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Phil Kitching
> average. Note that whilst the players who were in come in to join
> those that were in and are now out, before they come back out, the side
> that was out comes in but before it goes out to be in, the two sides
> have a break that is called "an Early Tea".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:40:50 +0000
From: Andy Coombes
Subject: Re: Vs: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
At 10:42 AM 13/03/2000 -0700, you wrote:
>Not only Finnish companies...it's all the marketing rage to change your
>company's name to something vaguely latinate. Witness HP's tranformation
>into 'Agilent Technologies'. (Of course they'll tell you it's a
>portmandeau word combining 'AGILe and itelliGENT', and we're supposed to
>think that one of the largest corporation in America is headed back to
>the garage.)
>
>Lucent, Infiniti, Lexus, among others spring immediately to mind.
>
>(not to mention truly _bad_ Japanese car names, like the Suzuki Aspire.
>What it aspires to be a real car someday ? ;-)
The company I work for has recently evolved from NRTA to Realogy (something
to do with the domain nrta.com being taken by Vargr wannabes).
Andy.
- ----
"Monsters don't eat fishcakes... They eat Elephants RAAA!"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:00:31 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are"
At 23:53 14.03.00, you wrote:
> > No, he just speaks proper english.
> > Sometimes, when surfing the web, the non-native speaker gets to wonder, if
> > he speaks better english than the average american, when hee sees
> > web-sights, their-there-they´re mixups, etc. Makes ones toenails curl up
> > sometimes...
>
>Well, to be utterly pedantic it should be "web-sites", not "web-
>sights", but I'm willing to let you off, seeing as you're not a native
>speaker, and all. (Firmly tongue in cheek, given my stunning command of
>the language).
Erm, I was criticizing that spelling, too, hence the komma.
As in: Websights, ... mixups, etc....
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:16:31 -0600
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)
Subject: Re: MONTANA-class Battleship (T4/FF&S2) (longish)
Shoot it down. It'll make them think twice.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Richard Wilson
Subject: Re: MONTANA-class Battleship (T4/FF&S2) (longish)
>At 11:06 AM 3/14/00 -0700, you wrote:
>>Black ICE wrote:
>> > **begin transmission**
>> >
>> > AuricTech Shipyards MONTANA-class Battleship
>> >
>> > Tons: 500,000 std (SL Medium Rounded Cylinder Hypersonic)
>>
>>Visualizing a half a megaton of something comming in through the
>>atmosphere hypersonic.....
>>
>>"Moommmmyyyyyyy!"
>
>A warship that doesn't have to fire any weapons to make a ground attack. It
>just has to make a quick fly-by. I can see this presenting quite an
>air-defense dilemma. You don't shoot at it, it makes it's pass and does
>shock-wave damage. Or you do shoot at it, and if you manage to shoot it
>down, you have 500,000 dtons of heavy metal and fusion reactors moving
>5,000+ kph crashing in your lap. Nice.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 15:14:34 +0000
From: "Carlos Alos-Ferrer"
Subject: Re: Droyne (was Re: Parahumans and Solomani)
Peter Newman wrote:
> I have always wondered if Grandfathers children weren't clones.
> Droyne reproduction is weird enough as is that Grandfather may
> not have fit into the normal process. Notice that he had only
> sons, and apparently Alpha males only at that.
Altered clones, probably. If they were identical to Grandfather, I
don't see how would he have won the war against 420 copies of
himself. OTOH, he probably was bored enough to want some variance. An
alternative is that he tried to "uplift" Droyne to his level, ending
somewhere in the middle.
Carlos Alos-Ferrer
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:40:09 -0500
From: "Michael Peters"
Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
Humm, Change the Beer Fridge to a Soda Fridge and this could be named
"DITZIE'S GO-CART". I can see it now with a brightly colored "I Love H.E."
painted down it's side...
Mike
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Katharine Whitchurch
To:
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 3:08 AM
Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
> > Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 23:36:23 -0500
> > From: "R.D. Elliott"
> > Subject: Famille Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
> >
>
> I am in awe of this man.
>
> > Excerpted from Imperial Yachting Digest, IY 012-032
>
> >The drives are powered by an enormous Fusion+
> > plant; a shade over 1900 megawatts, to be precise
>
>
> Add 1t Beer Fridge, 1t Stereo System and 1t Lighting System.
>
> Someone else can do the stats for your favorite space combat system.
>
> Ian Whitchurch
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:46:41 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter"
Subject: RE: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab
Volker Greimann wrote:
> > > > Great idea - the return of the RICE Papers ; does BtC
> > > > form our baseline data?
> > >
> > > Yes. I'm going to try and pull data from the older versions
> > > for things like stellar data, but I'm not afraid to meddle..
> >
> > IMO, the writeup should note the version that it applies to.
> > There are some differences among what BtC, SM, and RS have to
> > say about systems in the Marches. If we note that a writeup
> > of Mora is based on BtC material, or the one on Efate used SM
> > data, then the reader will be forewarned about similarities
> > or differences between the writeup and his own TU.
>
> Cool, I´ll take a world with an Ancients site ;-)
Right, I'm grabbing Yori (Yori/Regina)! I just need to find that
map I did 10 years ago and scan it onto my web site.
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:02:48 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: Re: Parahumans and Solomani
john hamilton wrote:
>According that the Artifacts of the A. are designed
>for Droyne,the connection had to occur the instant
>both when both are known.That simply cannot take
>centuries.
One serious problem with this: the astounding variety and almost
uniform poor condition of Ancient artifacts. Each Ancient base was
built from deliberately different tech, even different down to simple things
like how to latch a door or how to flip a switch. With the lack of visual
records at *any* of the bases, it was easy to come to the conclusion
that each base was from an entirely different species. It took quite some
time to start make the physiological connections that indicated differently.
It didn't help that these physiological cues were so sketchy, and so
many artifacts damaged to the point of confusion.
(OK, was this metal stick supposed to be bent like this, or was it
damaged? It has a button on one end, and a smooth spot halfway down
it. Did there used to be something in the cup at the other end? And
everything we have says it's solid metal, even the part where the button
goes down and comes back up again...)
By the time this connection had been made, the Droyne were known...
as a peaceful, introspective race. So much so that it simply wasn't
sensible to associate them with near-magical levels of technology and
near-genocidal militant violence.
Watch the movie _Forbidden Planet_, and look at the clues Doctor Morbius
had about Krell physiology: the shape of a door, the lack of obvious
chairs, the maximum size of a (possibly immature) head, controls that
were bigger than his hand and usually rotated to activate, and an idea
of what temperature, light and atmosphere levels were most comfortable.
Any one of these cues could have been read the wrong way. The door could
have been shaped that way to allow specialized equipment to be
moved, rather than due to the shape of a Krell body. The lighting could
be emergency or standby lighting, that would blaze to levels a human
would find blinding if a Krell entered the complex. With these misdirections,
he might well come up with a sketch of a living Krell so incorrect as to
be fanciful.
I recall a story, I think by Poul Anderson, about a human crew boarding
an alien ship. The aliens were afraid, and hid - amongst their cargo
of live animal specimens. Since the aliens had wrecked personal items,
gutted living quarters, and ensured no pictures existed, the humans had
a devil of a time figuring out who the intelligent aliens were with only
the remaining bridge controls to work from.
john again:
>Perhaps the Vilani already knew.(After all, they had a reason for Ancients
>research,as they had to find out where they from,cause they surly didn't
>origin on Vland.
It took the Vilani centuries to work that out. They assumed that Vland
was their homeworld, and that basic flaw led to the crippling of their
biological sciences. They were still tech levels behind in biotech at
the height of the 1st Imperium.
Were the 1st Imperium Vilani exposed to mature Droyne, or just
Chirpers? No one would mistake a Chirper for a godlike ancient race,
that's for sure.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:12:53 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: RE: 'Parahumans' and heretical Solomani
john hamilton wrote:
>> The Nazis used the superiority of the Aryan "race"
>> as a benchmark before
>> DNA was discovered. They simply used extensive
>> genological research.
>
>Their equivalent of dna testing were measurments of
>skull dimensions
I recall Stephen Jay Gould's _The Mismeasure of Man_...a researcher
measured things like brain case volume to try and "prove" his race
to be superior. Their results were used for decades as scientific truth.
Start with a conclusion, and it's amazing how easily the data can fall
into place. A later researcher got access to the same large collection
of skulls, and found that the original researcher had overmeasured
all the caucasian skulls, and undermeasured all the negroid skulls.
Something about the original measuring technique being so inaccurate
that the researcher's own biases could help, even unconciously, to
"cook" the data.
The later researcher found - as he expected, so read his biases as you
will - that both the largest and the smallest brain pans were found
among the highly varied negroid skulls in the collection, and the average
size was too close to call to find a "race" with a "superior sized brain"
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:22:34 -0500
From: Ethan Henry
Subject: Re: Vilani history and mindset
Jens Rydholm wrote:
> Imagine the number of catastrophic attempts made before someone proposed
> the following:
>
> "What if we move further away from our planet?"
Are you kidding? I would expect that they would have never even dreamed of
testing it on-world until they'd made several successful jumps... remember
testing the bomb?
"Well, it might just be a really big conventional bomb, but then again,
it might burn the entire atmosphere off."
If I were in charge of trying out the first jump drive, I would have gone far,
far away from everything and flipped the switch with a long, long pole.
Ethan
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 07:30:15
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: ACQ
At 10:05 PM 3/14/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>Not dead in my little universe :) Some of us are awaiting the 5th Edition
>rules. Hmmm..... I see some sort of Hiver plot here. Some of this list is
>waiting for T5, while some of us are waiting for 5th Edition Hero. Is there
>something significant about the 5th edtion of an RPG?
I was being snarky, I've loved Champions since the first edition, and it is
one of the few games I still get to play.
Douglas Berry, aka Steel Rainbow of the Bay Guardians
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 07:39:20
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Parahumans and Solomani
At 04:32 PM 3/14/2000 +0100, you wrote:
>At 12:07 15.03.00, you wrote:
>
>>According that the Artifacts of the A. are designed
>>for Droyne,the connection had to occur the instant
>>both when both are known.That simply cannot take
>>centuries.Perhaps the Vilani already knew.(After all,
>>they had a reason for Ancients research,as they had to
>>find out where they from,cause they surly didn't
>>origin on Vland.
>
>However, most devices were so mysterious, that it wasn´t even clear WHAT
>they were designed for. Many of the more obvious clues were only discovered
>by Player Characters in the Secret of the Ancients trilogy, roundabout 1106.
That, and the fact that the Ancients had the annoying habit of reinventing
technology from the ground up everywhere they went. Imperial archeologists
have no idea whether they are dealing with a single very weird race, a
hundred contemprary races, or something else entirely.
Add in that some sites will have facilities meant to be used by the h.
erectus workers, or by Vargr, and the situation becomes even more muddled.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:51:35 -0500
From: "Smith, Walter"
Subject: Re: ACQ
Douglas Berry wrote:
>I was being snarky, I've loved Champions since the first edition, and
>it is one of the few games I still get to play.
I'm a Champions fan since 1st ed as well. My last long-running RPG
campaign was Justice, Inc. (the 1930's pulp adventure tales version
of the Champions rules), and I'd love to make the time to run
some four-color hero stuff again.
>Douglas Berry, aka Steel Rainbow of the Bay Guardians
Walt Smith, aka Sunturion of the LA Swordsmen, aka Whiteraven
of the New York City Guardians.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:00:33 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: Parahumans and Solomani
- --- Walter Smith wrote:
> Were the 1st Imperium Vilani exposed to mature
> Droyne, or just
> Chirpers? No one would mistake a Chirper for a
> godlike ancient race,
> that's for sure.
Don't forget that the Vilani were used to the idea of
primitive species related to advanced-through their
own encounters with minor human races!
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:52:10 -0000
From: "Matthew Bond"
Subject: Re: Weather Control
- -----Original Message-----
From: houstonshocky@webtv.net
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: 15 March 2000 08:02
Subject: Weather Control
I have a question about TNE.
If a world has a pre colapse TL of say 15 with weather control
satellites and, after the collapse, is then dropped down to say TL 2 or
3 with all orbiting facilities destroyed, what would be the weather
patterns of this world.
Considering this world has had it's weather controlled for the past few
hundred years or so. Would the weather remain in it's controlled
behavior, revert to it's natural bahavior or behave in some other
manner?
Would this change be gradual or would it be a violent change?
- --------------------------------------------------
Leaving aside the fact that any form of large scale weather control is
probably impossible, I would think that it would swiftly revert to the
'natural' weather patterns for the planet, probably violently.
The weather is a result of interactions between insolation (energy recieved
from the sun), rotational speed, planetary size, atmospheric density,
hydrographics, the location of mountain ranges, and a myriad other factors.
All of these are essentially intrinsic to that planet and are very difficult
to change. Especially with a handful of TL-15 satellites.
To really alter a planets weather would require a major 'terraforming'
project, and even then you would only be able to adjust unbearably extreme
weather into something tolerable, but still chaotic. In which case the 'new'
weather *would* be 'natural' for the planet, and any subsequent TL crash
wouldn't affect it.
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 15:21:30 -0000
From: "Matthew Bond"
Subject: Re: and here's what it looks like...-sorry,that's just the same again
- -----Original Message-----
From: john hamilton
>--- Rob Eaglestone wrote:
>
>> OPTION I:
>> ---------
>>
>> Rulebook: same size as "The Traveller Book", with
>> pretty much
>> the same proportion of material as said
>> book.
>>
>> Most of these sections are laid out so as
>> to be mini-games
>> in their own right, allowing solitaire
>> play.
>>
>> Summary pages encapsulate rules, and
>> flowcharts in some
>> circumstances streamline process.
>>
>> Artwork is good, appropriate, and supports
>> the text.
>> Mark Cook and Jesse DeGraff spring to
>> mind.
>>
>> PLAYTESTED and PROOFREAD.
>>
>> intro
>> basic chargen, T4-like stat rules & aging
>> basic equipment, vehicles
>> basic skills & task system
>> basic combat (fast, painful, and seamless
>> with ship combat!)
>> basic encounter handling (animal + people)
>> basic worldgen
>> basic starship gen & combat (seamless with
>> personal combat!)
>> (perhaps use a revised Mayday or
>> RPSCS?)
>> basic travel, trade & commerce
>> basic psionics
>> basic introduction to the milieu (ca. 200)
>>
>> Sourcebooks:
>>
>> milieu sourcebook perhaps...
>> or a couple good adventures that convey the
>> same info.
>>
>> citizens: all careers, basic and advanced
>> gen systems...
>> Perhaps a more detailed combat system
>> here.
>
>
>Sorry,but your proposal is far to rules-oriented.All
>rules should be contained in the Basic Set,which would
Ahhh, like GURPS. Everyhing you need in one book. Except for the
compendiums. And the Starships. And Robots. And Religion. Not forgetting
Vehicles. Oh yes, and Martial Arts, Technology, most of the Magic, etc etc.
>have the side-effect that TNE or MT or even GT gamers
>could buy the sourcebooks.
>"milieu sourcebooks perhaps"?You mean many
>rulebooks,but a SETTING is rather optional?
>Now,there are more rules- and more background-oriented
>gamers.But new players don't buy rules,they buy
Oh? How do they play settings if they don't buy rules...
>settings.And old gamers stick to the rules they play
>with for sometimes decades now.
Sure, if it ain't broke don't fix it. If it is, buy a revised version of a
ruleset that is compatible with your existing playing style, campaign notes
etc.
>> OPTION 2:
>> ---------
>> Break the books into 3 main rulebooks a la MT, and
>> parcel
>> out the remainder into sourcebooks.
>
>
>That wouldn't sell many books.Who's gonna pick-up 3
>books at once?
Well, either sell them as a boxed set ala MT, or have a set of core rules
(either a single book, or a players guide and a GM's guide) and a selection
of supplements to expand upon these rules. eg GURPs or AD&D.
AD&D has always required 3 or more books, and that seems to have carved out
a small niche for itself...
>Many gamers pick up a new game and then decide if
>they should play it.But with 3 books with as good as
>no background?It worked with the CT cause there
>weren't many SF RPGs out there at it's time.
But the background can be introduced in the core rules as part of the
examples of play. Or, as in MT's case one of the 3 core books was the
Imperial encyclopaedia, a collection of setting background and equipment.
I can't think of any popular game that doesn't consist of either more than
one book, or contains setting and rules in a single book or boxed set.
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 15:59:23 -0000
From: "Matthew Bond"
Subject: Re: Parahumans and Solomani
- -----Original Message-----
From: john hamilton
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: 15 March 2000 11:08
Subject: Re: Parahumans and Solomani
>
>
>--- Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>> Douglas E
>> Actually, according to AM5 the connection between
>> the Droyne and the Ancients
>> (though presumably not the exact details) were
>> discovered "300 years ago". My
>> take is that the date is 790.
>
>According that the Artifacts of the A. are designed
>for Droyne,the connection had to occur the instant
>both when both are known.That simply cannot take
>centuries.Perhaps the Vilani already knew.(After all,
>they had a reason for Ancients research,as they had to
>find out where they from,cause they surly didn't
>origin on Vland.
Well, I'd be surly if the local plant life was deadly to humans without
major reprocessing...
Anyway, the Vilani didn't have a developed theory of evolution, as they were
unrelated to anything else on Vland, so they assumed that they had been
chosen by the gods and that they had always been there since their creation.
Technically they were probably right...
They would have *avoided* research of the ancients. There were still folk
memories of vast Ancient war machine that wreaked havoc on Vland until only
a few thousand years before they achieved Jump. You don't mess with
something that can flatten mountain ranges lightly.
"Ee bain't be allowed to go there, lest ye disturb the rest of the evil
spirits who will rise up and slay us all, I tells ya!"
Also, there are far more worlds with native minor race humans on than there
are Droyne worlds. "Surely", they would have thought, "if any modern race
was the descendants of the Ancients, or their principal servants, it was
Humans".
It's not until the events of Twilight's Peak (Adv 3, set 1107) that the link
between the Ancients and the Droyne can be *proved*. Prior to that it was
uncertain whether the Droyne were a servant race of the ancients, related to
them as chimpanzees are to humans, or actually descendants of the Ancients,
among other theories.
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:05:33 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: Parahumans and Solomani
- --- "Douglas E. Berry"
wrote:
> At 04:32 PM 3/14/2000 +0100, you wrote:
> >At 12:07 15.03.00, you wrote:
> >
> >>According that the Artifacts of the A. are
> designed
> >>for Droyne,the connection had to occur the instant
> >>both when both are known.That simply cannot take
> >>centuries.Perhaps the Vilani already knew.(After
> all,
> >>they had a reason for Ancients research,as they
> had to
> >>find out where they from,cause they surly didn't
> >>origin on Vland.
> >
> >However, most devices were so mysterious, that it
> wasn´t even clear WHAT
> >they were designed for. Many of the more obvious
> clues were only discovered
> >by Player Characters in the Secret of the Ancients
> trilogy, roundabout 1106.
>
> That, and the fact that the Ancients had the
> annoying habit of reinventing
> technology from the ground up everywhere they went.
> Imperial archeologists
> have no idea whether they are dealing with a single
> very weird race, a
> hundred contemprary races, or something else
> entirely.
>
> Add in that some sites will have facilities meant to
> be used by the h.
> erectus workers, or by Vargr, and the situation
> becomes even more muddled.
Stop.Whatever principle a device uses,handles,control
arrays are disigned for droyne.Look at your keyboard:
A it's designed for human hands
B it uses the letter arrangement from 100 year old
typewriters even if your PC is working radically different.
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:00:42
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Re Rules vs Setting
At 02:43 AM 3/15/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>The question is: Why are you gaming? For fun? Or to
>"worship" the setting? I think this is a fundamental
>difference between newer players and older: The older
>are obsessed with canon, while many GURPS gamers
>already use, for example, magic (the Spacers landing
>on the planet [basicly the Yrth setting] with mages is
>probably THE GURPS Space Cliche)in it.
>And Cyborgs. And probably the occasional Cthulhu
>encounter.
A lot of us "older" players remember the D&D module "Barrier Peaks in which
the dungeon was a crashed starship.
I have to ask what this obsession with "older" and "younger" players is. We
are all here because we love Traveller. We do not worship canon, even
people like me who really prefer the 3I setting for its richness of detail.
If we were as hidebound as you seem to think, the posts about an alternate
Rebellion ending would invoke flames, not praise. You want to use Magic in
your game? Fine. Go ahead. Contrary to what some seem to think, There isn't
a Traveller Flying Squad coming 'round to beat you if you use non-canonical
ideas or rules. It's your game. Ask Eris about being a heretic. I don't
think he does *anything* in the standard way, but he also runs one of the
most successful PBEMs around.
The problem with the game stew approach is that it can spiral out of
control fairly quickly. Look at Rifts. It tries to do everything at once,
and ends up having to raise the power level with each release to maintain
the fan base. I doubt that an OCC from the original rulebook would last
five minutes in the current incarnation of the game.
The secret is to make the game interesting at a certain power level, and
keep it interesting. Traveller, in whatever edition does that very well. In
twenty years I haven't needed to add magic, Lovecraftian horrors, or
superpowers to maintain interest in the game. I have used them, sparingly,
as oddities to make a single scenario stand out.
If you can find it, take a look at _Thieves' World_ (Chaosium, 1981). Marc
Miller writes a section on converting the well known fantasy setting to
Traveller, with a few suggestions on how to incorporate magic. It isn't a
new idea.
>BTW, Aztecs just describes a TL2 world; just replace
>magic with Psi.
I have about two feet of GURPS books that I just keep as reference materials.
>> There is far more to "Traveller" than JUST the
>> setting, or the rules. It's
>> a combination of game-philosphy, setting and
>> mechanics.
>
>Sorry, but this is to mystiefied. It's a RPG, not a
>philosophy. And people don't buy philosophies in game
>shops,
Yes they do. They buy the designer's philosophy on design, and the
publishers philosophy on layout and appearance.
You may scoff, but us "older" players have seen the cycles of game theory
and design come and go in the hobby for a few decades now.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"Non possum existimare plus quemquem facini"
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2086
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, March 15 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2087
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: yusin "your" insted ow "you are"
Ancients (was re: Parahumans and Solomani)
RE: Vilani history and mindset
RE: Vilani history and mindset
Re: and here's what it looks like...-sorry,that's just the same again
Re: Delurking
Re: Ancients (was re: Parahumans and Solomani)
Re: Mafia...
Re: yusin "your" insted ow "you are"
Ancients (was re: Re: Parahumans and Solomani)
Re: Ancients
RE: Yanks are coming...
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Parahumans and Solomani
Re: Parahumans and Solomani
Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab
Re: Re Rules vs Setting
Military types vs 7th graders TML # 2083
Re: Ancients (was re: Parahumans and Solomani)
Re: Ancients (was re: Re: Parahumans and Solomani)
Re: Parahumans and Solomani
Re: Pre-MT stats for central imperial worlds?
Re: Call for help
Re: Re Rules vs Setting
Re: Dulinors folly and Strephons misery and Norris triumph
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:03:24
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
At 12:52 AM 3/16/2000 +1300, you wrote:
>> It would work on you too.. do you know what we sing during the seventh
>> inning stretch?
>
>Tie Me Kangaroo Down, Sport?
"Take Me Out To The Ball Game" Which has the following line..
**WARNING! ANY AUSSIES/NEW ZEALANDERS! SWALLOW COFFEE NOW!**
"For it's root, root, root for the home team.
if they don't win it's a shame."
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:07:18
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: yusin "your" insted ow "you are"
At 04:02 AM 3/15/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>You make a short joke,and people loose their
>mind.Fantaaastic.Great.Realy.Marvelous.
>But it's my fault.I didn't realize that Traveller
>should be discussed with religious awe.
John, we can't tell your "jokes" from your usual bad
spelling and formatting.
Relgious awe? I really wonder where you are getting this stuff, or if you
are somehow getting the TML from an alternate dimension.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:07:54 -0500
From: "Smith, Walter"
Subject: Ancients (was re: Parahumans and Solomani)
john hamilton wrote:
>Don't forget that the Vilani were used to the idea of
>primitive species related to advanced-through their
>own encounters with minor human races!
Eventually, yes...but these minor human races, with a very
few exceptions, were obviously human. It's not, IMO, as obvious
that Chirpers are the same species as Droyne - some humans have
even resisted the idea that Chirpers are fully intelligent.
Good point Doug had about the added confusion of finding facilities
for "humans", vargr, and who knows what other servitor races in
Ancient sites. I even recall a researcher of the 3I, once the
secret of the Ancients was presented, claiming that humans were the
real Ancients, and ancient Droyne were another servitor race.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:10:17 -0500
From: "Garcia, Abel"
Subject: RE: Vilani history and mindset
- -----Original Message-----
From: Ethan Henry
Subject: Re: Vilani history and mindset
Are you kidding? I would expect that they would have never even dreamed of
testing it on-world until they'd made several successful jumps... remember
testing the bomb?
"Well, it might just be a really big conventional bomb, but then again,
it might burn the entire atmosphere off."
If I were in charge of trying out the first jump drive, I would have gone
far,
far away from everything and flipped the switch with a long, long pole.
Ethan,
Remember to dim the lights first;)
Abel
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:15:49 -0500
From: "Smith, Walter"
Subject: RE: Vilani history and mindset
Ethan Henry wrote:
>If I were in charge of trying out the first jump drive, I would have
>gone far, far away from everything and flipped the switch with a long,
>long pole.
And thus we have the explanation for why the bridge is in the nose
of the ship, instead of the center where it's safer. Vilani pilots
and navigators want to be as far as possible from that jump drive
back in engineering when they turn it on.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:21:08 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: and here's what it looks like...-sorry,that's just the same again
- --- Matthew Bond wrote:
>
> I can't think of any popular game that doesn't
> consist of either more than
> one book, or contains setting and rules in a single
> book or boxed set.
Well,just from the ones I own:
Shadowrun:from history over critters to
equipment,it's basicly self-containing.
Cyberpunk 2020:even more so
Star wars RPG
DC heroes
Call of Cthulhu
Now something controversial:
TRAVELLER TNE!!!!
Yes,for us,it had everything needed.You could play
with it,even if you had only slight ideas of the 3I's
history;but it was destroyed anyway!
Yes,every one of the examples has COUNTLESS
supplements,but you can play without them.
DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME WITH T4!
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:17:37 EST
From: Damage169@cs.com
Subject: Re: Delurking
In a message dated Sat, 11 Mar 2000 16:37:36 -0900, "William F. Hostman"
writes:
>
> Thomas Vickers put forth:
> >Damn you evil Jack Daniel's supporters.
> >Good men drink Wild Turkey and laugh at people like you.
> >When will you ever learn ;)
>
> I never said I drink the S**T! Only that they're still around IMTU.
>
> I prefer Talsiker. Or Glenfiddich(Sp?) or Glenlevit.
>
Laphroiag. Best I've ever tasted. Got hooked on it at Holy Loch. Expensive
but well worth it.
Doug Grimes
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:24:31 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: Ancients (was re: Parahumans and Solomani)
- --- "Smith, Walter" wrote:
> john hamilton wrote:
> >Don't forget that the Vilani were used to the idea
> of
> >primitive species related to advanced-through
> their
> >own encounters with minor human races!
>
> Eventually, yes...but these minor human races, with
> a very
> few exceptions, were obviously human. It's not, IMO,
> as obvious
> that Chirpers are the same species as Droyne - some
> humans have
> even resisted the idea that Chirpers are fully
> intelligent.
>
> Good point Doug had about the added confusion of
> finding facilities
> for "humans"
That wouldn't confuse.First ,those quaters would be
surpassed by droyne quarters in luxury,indicating who
was the boss.
Also,it would simply be the explanation how humaniti
was scattered around space,for the theory of ancients
would come in mind even before the discovery of the
very first artefact (after all,when SF Game designer
can get the idea,then thousends of scientists can`t?)
, vargr, and who knows what other
> servitor races in
> Ancient sites. I even recall a researcher of the 3I,
> once the
> secret of the Ancients was presented, claiming that
> humans were the
> real Ancients,
It's featured in JTAS Theta Nine Sleepers
Adventure.They are called "Archeonts".
and ancient Droyne were another
> servitor race.
>
> Walt Smith
>
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:25:24 EST
From: Damage169@cs.com
Subject: Re: Mafia...
In a message dated 3/13/00 3:53:48 PM Central Standard Time, Glenn Goffin
writes:
> Nothing like that has happened in the Imperium. When the
> Terrans emigrated into the old Ziru Sirka, they came as
> conquerors, not people fleeing poverty and corruption. They
> didn't need to develop an underground criminal structure for
> protection and advancement because they brought an army and a
> navy with them and started out ahead of the natives. Maybe we
> should be discussing a Vilani mafia.
>
Perhaps it really got started after Solomani influence at the Imperial Court
was destroyed and the Vilani-descended Emperors began taking over again. If
an entire race feels it has lost a great amount of political influence in the
state in which it lives it would/has lead to various movements, some legal,
other not.
Doug Grimes
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:26:51 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: yusin "your" insted ow "you are"
- --- "Douglas E. Berry"
wrote:
> At 04:02 AM 3/15/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>
> >You make a short joke,and people loose their
> >mind.Fantaaastic.Great.Realy.Marvelous.
> >But it's my fault.I didn't realize that Traveller
> >should be discussed with religious awe.
>
> John, we can't tell your "jokes" from your usual bad
>
> spelling
And since this isn't complicated,it's very sad!
> Relgious awe? I really wonder where you are getting
> this stuff, or if you
> are somehow getting the TML from an alternate
> dimension.
I sometimes think that's actually true.
>
> Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
>
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:28:40 -0500
From: "Smith, Walter"
Subject: Ancients (was re: Re: Parahumans and Solomani)
john hamilton wrote:
>Stop.Whatever principle a device uses,handles,control
>arrays are disigned for droyne.
Or a human servitor. Or a robot. Or a psionic "switch" like the
Zhodani are fond of, good luck figuring out what kind of "hand"
it uses.
john again:
> Look at your keyboard:
>B it uses the letter arrangement from 100 year old
>typewriters even if your PC is working radically different.
Here we have an example of one reason researchers had so much trouble
linking together Ancient sites into evidence of one race. Such
expectations as those above were taken with them, and colored and
confused their interpretation of the data they found.
Sure, the three half-melted input devices you found at one site will
be similar to each other. They'll in no way resemble the shattered
pieces of an input device someone else found at another site a
century ago. That was the weird thing about the Droyne, they
always seemed to start from scratch.
In some ways, it's as if Yaskodray put his kids naked on planets with
TL-0 information and near-immortality, and just left each one alone
to come up with technology from nothing to TL-Magic, just to see
how many different ways there were to do things.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:42:44 -0500
From: "Smith, Walter"
Subject: Re: Ancients
john hamilton wrote:
>> Good point Doug had about the added confusion of
>> finding facilities for "humans"
>That wouldn't confuse.First ,those quaters would be
>surpassed by droyne quarters in luxury,indicating who
>was the boss.
Ooh, you would make a *terrible* xenoarchaologist!! ;-)
Seriously, the above assumes that physical luxury is more
important to the Droyne than to their underlings, and
assumes the physical luxuries will be the sort that
leave evidence behind after being wrecked in a war and
left for 300,000 years.
I can easily imagine an Ancient Droyne who lived a life
of the mind, obsessively creating and discovering,
who had no interest in "luxuries" himself, but didn't
care if his "slaves" used the least of his technology
to build themselves pleasure domes to make a Roman
emperor jealous. He himself lived in a very simple chamber,
and his sole recreations were performance-art flying and
shriek-poetry, no recordings of which survive.
Another example:
If Droyne did nothing but lounge on couches and order
humans around, then every control panel in the place
would be built for human hands. If grandfather's molecular
vaporization bomb completely disintigrated the mile-wide
palatial mansion where all the Droyne overlords lived,
then the only housing left at the site to be found would
also be made for humans. Presto, you've got "proof" that
the Ancients (or at least, *these* Ancients) were humans!
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:43:57 -0600
From: "Moody, Danny M."
Subject: RE: Yanks are coming...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Black ICE [mailto:wombat@premier.net]
> True, as illustrated by one of the standard jokes in the US Army:
>
> Q. What's the difference between the Army and the Boy Scouts?
>
> A. The Boy Scouts have adult supervision.
Or, as my dad says:
A. The Boy Scouts don't have heavy artillery.
vargr1 UPP-8D9B85
- ---------------------------- Omnia dicta fortiora, si dicta latina.
Meyers-Briggs personality type: ENTJ vargr1@jcn1*com
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with." dmoody@bridge*com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:46:27 -0800
From: "Jesse LaBranche"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
> > It would work on you too.. do you know what we sing during the seventh
> > inning stretch?
> Tie Me Kangaroo Down, Sport?
> "Rupert Boleyn"
> An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
ROFLMAO!!!
After cleaning the coke off of my keyboard and monitor... That was good
Rupert. It also gave me an idea.
Has anyone worked with sports in their campaigns? Seeing how football is
a completely different game in two areas of the world, or all of this
discussion
about cricket, I would imagine that the Vargr have completely different
sports
and procedures for carrying them out than we do.
Which of our real world sports do you see surviving into the 3rd Imp?
We'll get into songs later I think :-)
Good gaming.
Jesse.
vanquer@email.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 17:40:57 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Re: Parahumans and Solomani
At 16:59 15.03.00, you wrote:
>"Ee bain't be allowed to go there, lest ye disturb the rest of the evil
>spirits who will rise up and slay us all, I tells ya!"
That might work up to TL -6 maybe.
After that, there´s bound to be some curious scientists and/or government
group that wants to see if there´s profit/knowledge/power lurking in the
ruins. IIRC, the Vilani only became so conservative as we know them after
achieving Jump.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 17:44:55 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Re: Parahumans and Solomani
At 17:05 15.03.00, you wrote:
>Stop.Whatever principle a device uses,handles,control
>arrays are disigned for droyne.Look at your keyboard:
>A it's designed for human hands
>B it uses the letter arrangement from 100 year old
>typewriters even if your PC is working radically different.
Aha, but there was no obvious keyboards or buttons on Ancients devices.
They were just "things with no apparent use". Many items required telepathy to
activate, others were just that advanced that they seemed like magic to
Imperial
Scientist (Clarke´s 3rd Law, right?).
Additionally, the Ancients used a different design aproach on every single
world they left traces on. No two Ancient sites are alike and the use or
idea of certain structures is unknown even today.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:52:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Houghton
Subject: Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab
Howdy!
> Volker Greimann wrote:
> > > > > Great idea - the return of the RICE Papers ; does BtC
> > > > > form our baseline data?
> > > >
> > > > Yes. I'm going to try and pull data from the older versions
> > > > for things like stellar data, but I'm not afraid to meddle..
> > >
> > > IMO, the writeup should note the version that it applies to.
> > > There are some differences among what BtC, SM, and RS have to
> > > say about systems in the Marches. If we note that a writeup
> > > of Mora is based on BtC material, or the one on Efate used SM
> > > data, then the reader will be forewarned about similarities
> > > or differences between the writeup and his own TU.
> >
> > Cool, I_ll take a world with an Ancients site ;-)
>
> Right, I'm grabbing Yori (Yori/Regina)! I just need to find that
> map I did 10 years ago and scan it onto my web site.
>
dibs on Wonstar/Five Sisters...
yours,
Michael
- --
Michael and MJ Houghton | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@radix.net | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
| http://www.radix.net/~herveus/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:57:28 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Re Rules vs Setting
From: Douglas E. Berry
> A lot of us "older" players remember the D&D module "Barrier
> Peaks in which the dungeon was a crashed starship.
Not just *any* crashed starship. It was supposed to be a piece of The
Warden. Some of us "older" players remember why that was significant! :)
> Yes they do. They buy the designer's philosophy on design, and the
> publishers philosophy on layout and appearance.
Amen to that.
> You may scoff, but us "older" players have seen the cycles of game
> theory and design come and go in the hobby for a few decades now.
Imagine that, different ideas about what's important in an RPG might create
different rules and settings! Sheesh.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:57:29 -0700
From: "Eric T. Holmes"
Subject: Military types vs 7th graders TML # 2083
Fellow TMLers:
After writing USAF Regulations for two years, I can tell you from
experience that this college educated SOB had to dumb down
the regs to fourth and fifth grade level.
New York Times articles are at fifth grade level, and this
was considered too advanced for regulations.
If I was writing for officers, I had to dumb down to ninth grade
reading level.
What can I say!
Eric
eholmes@lanl.gov holmberg@thuntek.net
7am to 4pm Mountain Time 6pm to Midnight Mountain Time
IMTU: he+, tc+, tm, tne, t4, tg, tt, to, ru, ge, 3i+, c+, jt, au, st, ls+,
pi+, ta+,
as+, va+, dr+, _sa_, kk--, hi--, so++, zh, vi, da, sy, _hu_
(sa = other sapients, hu = other humani)
Lacedaemon, we have done our duty.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:50:05
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Ancients (was re: Parahumans and Solomani)
At 08:24 AM 3/15/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>> Good point Doug had about the added confusion of
>> finding facilities
>> for "humans"
>That wouldn't confuse.First ,those quaters would be
>surpassed by droyne quarters in luxury,indicating who
>was the boss.
John, stop thinking like a human for a second.. what's luxurious to a
super-intelligent Droyne? What do you look for? I've seen quarters for
Roman slaves that were better than the average Roman peasant. What does a
Droyne *want*? What would survive the final war and 300,000 years.
The site in Twilights' Peak was by far the most complete ever found, and it
had nothing that could be described as luxury fittings.
>Also,it would simply be the explanation how humaniti
>was scattered around space,for the theory of ancients
>would come in mind even before the discovery of the
>very first artefact (after all,when SF Game designer
>can get the idea,then thousends of scientists can`t?)
Sure they had the idea, but they had no idea of the mechanism. People knew
that the sick should be isolated long before we knew about disease vectors
and viruses. Knowing that something happened does not equate to knowing why
or how it happened.
Take a researcher in the early 3I. He know that there are about forty
subspecies of human, with another twenty or so worlds where they died out.
There's also evidence that the Vargr were gene-modded, also, the Droyne are
found on many widely separated worlds.
An obvious theory is that somebody moved all these species around. But who?
And why?
That's the rub. We know that the ancient Polynesians spread all across the
Pacific, but how they did it was always in question until the Kon-Tiki
proved that you could sail across the Pacific on a raft. We know that
somebody made giant, Negroid looking stone heads in Central America, but we
don't know why.
Our theoretical researcher is going to look at the Droyne and see a race
not interested in Empire, content to stay on their scattered world and
farm. As the scale of the Final War becomes clear, nobody is going to
seriously think of them as candidates for the title of Ancients.
- --
Douglas E. Berry Templar Agent at Large.
gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
TravGeekCode:
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:51:42
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Ancients (was re: Re: Parahumans and Solomani)
At 11:28 AM 3/15/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>john hamilton wrote:
>>Stop.Whatever principle a device uses,handles,control
>>arrays are disigned for droyne.
>
>Or a human servitor. Or a robot. Or a psionic "switch" like the
>Zhodani are fond of, good luck figuring out what kind of "hand"
>it uses.
Or the Bzzerit, a rawce that died out 250,000 years ago, but had been used
extensively, or any one of a dozen other possibilities.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:54:59
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Parahumans and Solomani
At 03:59 PM 3/15/2000 -0000, you wrote:
>It's not until the events of Twilight's Peak (Adv 3, set 1107) that the link
>between the Ancients and the Droyne can be *proved*. Prior to that it was
>uncertain whether the Droyne were a servant race of the ancients, related to
>them as chimpanzees are to humans, or actually descendants of the Ancients,
>among other theories.
Even then, all we know is that the Ancients made use of Droyne Warriors at
*this specific site.*
"A Visit to Antiquity", TD 3 (?), Had a similar stasis chamber containing
proto-Vargr.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:18:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: Pre-MT stats for central imperial worlds?
Black ICE writes:
> The best explanations I can see for a TL15, Pop-A world to have less
> than a class-A starport are:
>
> 1. The starship-capable shipyards at the starport are damaged beyond
> current usability, due to war or some other unpleasantness (reasonably
> likely).
While possible, that's unlikely to push it below class B. Your average pop-A
world would have more facilities that qualify as class-B than current Earth
has international airports. The problem is that you only need something
like pop-7 to reasonably sustain a class-A port, a class-A port for a pop-A
world is a drop in the bucket for its GWP, and if damaged would probably be
made fully functional within a decade. Given that most of the worlds
in question are in the central Imperium, and haven't known war for centuries,
it just isn't that likely.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:18:30 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Call for help
Katharine Whitchurch wrote:
>
> Oh yeah, and has anyone actually kept a file of Ditzie's stuff ? I'm looking
> for the exact technical specs of the Famile Spofulam 250- and 600 MJ rapid
> fire lasers.
There's a FS archives PDF on the BITS web site.
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:19:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: Re Rules vs Setting
Chris Seamans writes:
> From: Douglas E. Berry
>
>
> > A lot of us "older" players remember the D&D module "Barrier
> > Peaks in which the dungeon was a crashed starship.
>
> Not just *any* crashed starship. It was supposed to be a piece of The
> Warden. Some of us "older" players remember why that was significant! :)
While I remember Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, I don't recall anything about
the Warden. Why _is_ that significant? ;)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:20:22 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Dulinors folly and Strephons misery and Norris triumph
In a message dated 3/14/00 11:32:35 PM !!!First Boot!!!, eris@pcola.gulf.net
writes:
<< think Duke Craig did the best he could, too. He didn't have as easy a
>time of it as Norris, but stayed out of it as much as possible, too.
He deserved a better fate than he got, too.
>>
what happened to him? I know Bryzk went "boom", Dulinor got turned into
Salami, Lucan disappeared into the "black zone", and Strephon just
disappeared all together...(I think)
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2087
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, March 15 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2088
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares?
Re: Parahumans and Solomani
Alien Sport (was 4 reasons)
Re: Famile Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
Inventing jumpdrives (was: Vilani history and mindset)
Re: Parahumans and Solomani
Re: Sworld world names?
Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
Re: Vs: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
Re: Famille Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
Re: Sworld world names?
Colonial Tech Levels in the Solomani Rim
Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
Re: Sworld world names?
Re: and here's what it looks like...-sorry,that's just the same again
Re: Colonial Tech Levels in the Solomani Rim
re: and here's what it looks like...-sorry,that's just the same again
Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
Re: and here's what it looks like...-sorry,that's just the same again
Re: Ancients (was re: Parahumans and Solomani)
Re: Call for help
Re: Dulinors folly and Strephons misery and Norris triumph
Re: Colonial Tech Levels in the Solomani Rim
Re: Back in the saddle
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:26:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares?
Qstor@aol.com writes:
> At TL 15 would vacc suits be able to withstand solar flare radiation
> outside protective planetary belts? Just curious...I know that modern
> suits won't and that US shuttle astronauts have to be careful....
Actually, modern spacecraft won't sufficiently withstand solar flare radiation,
a vacc suit isn't even enough to withstand non-flare radiation levels outside
the earth's magnetic field. I don't think canon really specifies the
radiation protection from a vacc suit, but lightweight suits wouldn't protect
noticeably, and you'd probably want to be careful about solar flares even
inside battledress.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:39:54 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Parahumans and Solomani
Matthew Bond wrote:
> Well, I'd be surly if the local plant life was deadly to humans without
> major reprocessing...
Not really. There are a number of staple foodstuffs in use by cultures
here that require shugilli-like processing.
The staple starch of a number of Polynesian island groups came from a
species of cycad that required some extensive processing before it was
made non-poisonous, (and at lower levels it's carcinogenic, as well)
There's a root vegetable that is the staple starch in the Amazon basin
that needs to have the cyanide processed out of it.
Taro, another staple of the Pacific, is poisonous as well before
treatment, it's full of calcium oxalate.
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:42:51 -0500
From: "Garcia, Abel"
Subject: Alien Sport (was 4 reasons)
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jesse LaBranche
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Has anyone worked with sports in their campaigns? Seeing how football is
a completely different game in two areas of the world, or all of this
discussion about cricket.
I would imagine that the Vargr have completely different
sports and procedures for carrying them out than we do.
(I love all these recent threads that dive into Alien life history; I
especially like when someone dares to post their pet theories on the "whys"
behind the cannon.)
OK then onto more serious alien stuff -sports!
VARGAR - Some of their sports may reflect their need to find creative and
safe releases for their pack/prey drives; how about group hunts for large
dangerous prey? On these hunts the group would hunt as a single team and the
prestige for bringing down even one of these beasts would go to the entire
group; just being present on a "successful" hunt would bring each Vargar the
same respect as the one who actually felled the creature. There would even
be many variations of the same game, from using traditional to modern
weapons.
Perhaps they have professional sports based on cub play: e.g. a variation of
"Tug-of-War" where the goal is to be the last Vargar holding the rope. (I
won't go into their love of ball sports;)
ASLAN - The one on one "Monkey-Hunt", where depending on the kitten's age
determines what kind of monkey he fights. As the Aslan progresses through
"monkeys" he gets to fashion his knife sheath from the pelt of most
difficult "monkey-type" defeated. The terran gorilla being the highest
officially recognized "sheath-rank" -though Terran Solomani being the most
coveted! (No official tourneys for these "Solo-sheaths"; strictly though
real-world duels only.) "Monkey-Hunt" masters may even have human "sparing"
partners for training their young kittens...Almost all sport duels resolve
with out death; perhaps only when testing for rank is it allowed to progress
to the death. A human that lived through such a test may be forever
protected as a valuable kitten trainer.
(And of course there are all those exciting female Aslan base-8 math
tourneys;)
Abel
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 18:45:59 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
Michael Peters wrote:
> Humm, Change the Beer Fridge to a Soda Fridge and this could be named
> "DITZIE'S GO-CART". I can see it now with a brightly colored "I Love
> H.E." painted down it's side...
Although the paint would be burned away pretty quickly during atmosphere
surfing :-)
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 18:55:55 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Inventing jumpdrives (was: Vilani history and mindset)
Ethan Henry wrote:
> Are you kidding? I would expect that they would have never even
> dreamed of testing it on-world until they'd made several successful
> jumps... remember testing the bomb?
> If I were in charge of trying out the first jump drive, I would have
> gone far, far away from everything and flipped the switch with a
> long, long pole.
I am not kidding. I am referring to the 100 diameters rule. 100 Earth
diameters puts you well outside the Moon's orbit, far away for most
safety-minded folks to feel good. I assume that the actual test craft
would have been launched from bases on the moon. That would place them
within the danger zone.
For inspiration, read a short story called "Hinterlands" (by William
Gibson, part of the collection "Burning crome"). Jump insanity anyone?
=)
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:59:31 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Parahumans and Solomani
john hamilton wrote:
>
> Stop.Whatever principle a device uses,handles,control
> arrays are disigned for droyne.Look at your keyboard:
> A it's designed for human hands
> B it uses the letter arrangement from 100 year old
> typewriters even if your PC is working radically different.
Well, aside from chording keyboards, MS 'natural keyboards', Dvorak
keyboards (all variants), Chinese keyboards, Cyrillic keyboards,
Japanese keyboards, Korean keyboards, Arabic keyboards, Hebrew
keyboards, Belgian keyboards, French keyboards, and some others I'm
forgetting, you're exactly right. There are also the large variety of
competing keyboards that existed during the repeated re-invention of the
typewriter.
Also, you're looking at a single input modus for a single form of
technology.
Cars certainly don't have keyboard controls, neither do microwaves.
Calculators and Phones have the numbers arranged in opposite directions,
to say nothing of rotary phone controls.
My Newton, which is a PC for all intents and purposes (I have a
spreadsheet, word processing, telecommunications, database processing
and a solitaire game, which is required by law to exist on any computing
device on the planet ;-) has no keyboard at all, just a plastic stylus.
Not every device we control in our lives uses a keyboard. How many
remotes do you have in your living room? How many of them are laid out
identically?
Many of the controls were _not_ designed for Droyne hands, but Droyne
thoughts, human hands, vargr hands, robotic control (what Granfather
eventually settled on as servants).
Finally, as someone else has mentioned it, the Ancients were in the
absolute iron-fisted grip of the 'not invented here' syndrome. They
didn't share technology with each other, even more so after the Final
War started, so you could have 421 different versions of 'the keyboard'.
Now...fast forward this through the Final War and some 200,000+ years of
intervening history and geological processes. Unravel the technology
now.
In Earthly terms, this is like trying to reconstruct your keyboard from
a loose key with the letter 'B', the upper right hand corner of a
membrane keypad from a microwave labelled in arabic, and a Chinese
television remote with all the lettering worn off.
Got it?
Now try to figure out human control systems in a recovered 67 Corvette.
THAT'S what dealing with Ancient Devices is like.
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:03:12 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Sworld world names?
Arrgh somewhere in the archives there's a more detailed description, but
two of the worlds are named for Charlemagne's sword and the sword of
____ his Hero, whom I cannot remember now.
Qstor@aol.com wrote:
>
> I know this has been a much asked question on the TML ..so please forgive my
> "newbieness"but....aside from weapons from JRR Tolkien, Thor and King Arthur
> (I know there are 2 worlds named from Arthurian legend)...what are the other
> Sword World's named after?? Just curious...:)
>
> Mike
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:05:04 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
Phil Kitching wrote:
>
> What you have to realise is that when the team that is in goes out,
> only their first two players go out - the two out are in. The rest
> of the team stay in (the pavillion). Then the bowlers bowl, the
> fielders field and the batsmen bat, until one of the batsmen is out,
> when he goes in and the next who was in comes out and is in.
Ahhhh, I get it!! "Who's on first...";-)
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:08:40 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Vs: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
Andy Coombes wrote:
>
> The company I work for has recently evolved from NRTA to Realogy (something
> to do with the domain nrta.com being taken by Vargr wannabes).
What you study Reality from an outside perspective? Or do you just laze
around listening to net radio all day?
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:18:57 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Famille Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
R.D. Elliott wrote:
>
> Excerpted from Imperial Yachting Digest, IY 012-032
:-0...
WOW! Foreshadowing was right, Rod. Welcome back with a bang!
Mooommmmmyyyyyyeeee! AND my pants are full ;-)
(Though your strategy of blasting all the way to the end of the race
then aerobraking right at the end might be more reminicent of the
Tunguska (sp) Event than the checkered flag)
Though if you're doing 16 gees for eight hours before aerobraking, you
might be closer to the Cretaceous than Tunguska....
Oh Great...Rod goes and sticks a Planet Buster on us and tells us it's a
bleedin' hot rod.
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:21:45 -0500
From: "James Fleming"
Subject: Re: Sworld world names?
Bruce Johnson wrote:
> Arrgh somewhere in the archives there's a more detailed description, but
> two of the worlds are named for Charlemagne's sword and the sword of
> ____ his Hero, whom I cannot remember now.
Was it Roland? IIRC that was the name of Charlemagne's hero. What were
the Tolkien names?
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:25:40 -0500
From: "Chris Dixon"
Subject: Colonial Tech Levels in the Solomani Rim
Question for the list:
Does a colony world share the Tech Level of the world that made the
colony?
I'm wondering specifically about Terran Confederation colonies during
the Interstellar war periods.
I can understand worlds that are already inhabited having a lower TL but
I would think that a colony would share the homeworlds TL or maybe one
or two lower. i.e. they know how to make jump 2 drives they just don't
have the infrastructure in place yet to do so.
Thoughts welcome.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:59:06 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
On 03/15/00 at 01:04 PM, Phil Kitching said:
>>For someone that understands baseball, that explanation made *perfect* sense.
>>The only question I have is how do those that are in get out, so those that
>>are out can come in? ;-J
>What you have to realise is that when the team that is in goes out, only
>their first two players go out - the two out are in. The rest of the team
>stay in (the pavillion). Then the bowlers bowl, the fielders field and
>the batsmen bat, until one of the batsmen is out, when he goes in and the
>next who was in comes out and is in. This continues until there is no one
>who is not in and who has not been out to replace the one who was in and
>is now out. At this point the whole team is out, including the player who
>is still in and is considered to be not out and counts his score but not
>being in to his average. Note that whilst the players who were in come in
>to join those that were in and are now out, before they come back out,
>the side that was out comes in but before it goes out to be in, the two
>sides have a break that is called "an Early Tea".
>Unless England was in and is now out, when it is usually called "lunch".
Hee! Hee! England must be the Cubs of cricket.
>I hope this clarifies the finer points.
Ah, yes! Becoming more and more clear. Are you guys having fun?
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:54:53 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
On 03/15/00 at 12:52 PM, Ewan Quibell said:
>The bowler in the team that is out, bowls the ball at the batsman who is
>in, in the team which is in, who is trying not to get out. The batsman
>can be out many ways, but what is also important to note is that he can
>also be not out. When all the batsman who are in are out, including not
>out, the team that was in goes out and the team which was out goes in.
Still clear. When are you going to get to the confusing parts? ;-p
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:36:59 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Sworld world names?
Yes! It was Roland (whom I always picture as a headless Thompson gunner,
anyway ;-)
The Tolkien names were Narsil, Sting , Orcrist(?) and Anduril.
James Fleming wrote:
>
> Bruce Johnson wrote:
> > Arrgh somewhere in the archives there's a more detailed description, but
> > two of the worlds are named for Charlemagne's sword and the sword of
> > ____ his Hero, whom I cannot remember now.
>
> Was it Roland? IIRC that was the name of Charlemagne's hero. What were
> the Tolkien names?
>
> Jim
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 18:39:51 -0000
From: "Matthew Bond"
Subject: Re: and here's what it looks like...-sorry,that's just the same again
- -----Original Message-----
From: john hamilton
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: 15 March 2000 16:23
Subject: Re: and here's what it looks like...-sorry,that's just the same
again
>
>
>--- Matthew Bond wrote:
>>
>> I can't think of any popular game that doesn't
>> consist of either more than
>> one book, or contains setting and rules in a single
>> book or boxed set.
>
>Well,just from the ones I own:
>Shadowrun:from history over critters to
>equipment,it's basicly self-containing.
>Cyberpunk 2020:even more so
>Star wars RPG
>DC heroes
>Call of Cthulhu
>Now something controversial:
>TRAVELLER TNE!!!!
>Yes,for us,it had everything needed.You could play
>with it,even if you had only slight ideas of the 3I's
>history;but it was destroyed anyway!
And each of those rule books, on their own, is chock full of 'setting'. As I
said, name one popular system that is complete in ONE book containing rules
and NO setting. As I said, they are all either multi book eg AD&D, or
combined rules and setting in one book eg CoC. BTW, try designing a
starship using just the TNE main book...
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:41:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: Colonial Tech Levels in the Solomani Rim
Chris Dixon writes:
> Question for the list:
>
> Does a colony world share the Tech Level of the world that made the
> colony?
>
> I'm wondering specifically about Terran Confederation colonies during
> the Interstellar war periods.
>
> I can understand worlds that are already inhabited having a lower TL but
> I would think that a colony would share the homeworlds TL or maybe one
> or two lower. i.e. they know how to make jump 2 drives they just don't
> have the infrastructure in place yet to do so.
As always, Traveller is vague about what tech level actually means. If it
means manufacturing base (which is what some people assume), no world with
a population below 7 should have a TL above 5. If it refers to the typical
goods and services present on the world, it's anyone's guess. I would usually
make colonies at least 1 TL lower than the original world, however.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 18:17:33 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: re: and here's what it looks like...-sorry,that's just the same again
At 8:06 -0500 15/3/00, john hamilton wrote:
>Sorry,but your proposal is far to rules-oriented.All
>rules should be contained in the Basic Set,which would
>have the side-effect that TNE or MT or even GT gamers
>could buy the sourcebooks.
My Take?
A T5 ruleset based on the T4.1 playtest material with the complete
rules (ie a Traveller Book).
A Milieu Book (M200? M600?)
T5 lite on a website
Then in no particular order
A FFS2.5 corrected system (must be ready - or available for authors -
at the time of release so that a modular, HG level of complexity
starship system can be included) book.
An Equipment book (CSC and EA and EV in one)
A book like Traders and Gunboats combined with an advanced ship game.
A book which combines PE and TCS
Milieu 1100-1130 Book (ie go beyond GT with a sourcebook from pre-FFW
to Collapse)
Milieu 600 (or 200)
Milieu 0
Milieu 1200
Milieu IW
Milieu Contact
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 18:20:40 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
At 8:06 -0500 15/3/00, Phil Kitching wrote:
>Unless England was in and is now out, when it is usually called "lunch".
>
>I hope this clarifies the finer points.
Hmm. Modelling cricket with ACQ anyone?
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 18:32:19 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: and here's what it looks like...-sorry,that's just the same again
At 12:21 -0500 15/3/00, john hamilton wrote:
>Now something controversial:
>TRAVELLER TNE!!!!
>Yes,for us,it had everything needed.You could play
>with it,even if you had only slight ideas of the 3I's
>history;but it was destroyed anyway!
>
>Yes,every one of the examples has COUNTLESS
>supplements,but you can play without them.
>DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME WITH T4!
Funny, ISTR that T4 has a starship construction system in the rules
(albeit with need of errata) and TNE doesn't. Kind of made TNE in
need of Brilliant Lances or FFS1.
T4 was self contained - it just was very badly proofread and edited.
Most of the issues the CORE Group raised on reading it were *ignored*
by IG which resulted in a lot of errata. Starships (best used as a
mousemat) and FFS2 are advanced books and not necessary. Indeed, the
only core books to play happily that I'd recommend are CSC and EA.
The rest just expand the setting, except for FFS2 which is a serious
gearhead must.
TNE is (for a SFRPG) almost as self contained. It did have errata - a
re-write of the FFS1 laser/plasma rule (Mark 1 Mod 1 edition) plus
some other areas. The lack of ship construction for the first time in
Traveller was an issue to me, but overall it was well put together.
Dom
PS the full, bug fixed QSDS for T4 is at BITS website
- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 18:45:42 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: Ancients (was re: Parahumans and Solomani)
At 12:21 -0500 15/3/00, john hamilton wrote:
> > Good point Doug had about the added confusion of
> > finding facilities
> > for "humans"
>That wouldn't confuse.First ,those quaters would be
>surpassed by droyne quarters in luxury,indicating who
>was the boss.
I suggest that you search out and read Twilights' Peak and The
Secret of the Ancients before you decide to make nice sweeping
statements about the Droyne. The new GT AR3 would also be a good idea
if you can face buying a GURPS book. I believe Marc Miller is
reprinting the old adventures (maybe next?)
There is a serious jump from Ancient Technology TL15 in CT). For an analogy, think how different life is now from 30
years ago, and from 100 years ago, and then from 1000 years ago. The
Facilities could easily bewilder the human samples acquired by the
Ancients. This is made clear in Twilight's Peak with descriptions of
things as simple as toilets.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 18:41:42 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: Call for help
At 12:21 -0500 15/3/00, Bruce Johnson wrote:
>There's a FS archives PDF on the BITS web site.
It's all Uncle Hengie / Roderick's stuff...
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:56:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: Dulinors folly and Strephons misery and Norris triumph
>From: "Rupert Boleyn"
>I try not to, but I have several unfortunate addictions that
>force me to work in order to pay for them. Firstly this darn
>list (which not onlt requires me to pay ISP bills, but munches
>insane amounts of time). Secondly I have this horrible
>addiction to food, and I hust can't stop eating the damn stuff.
>I've treid to kick the habbit for years, but I can only hold
>out for a day or so at the outside. It's really annoying
>(and expensive), but I just can't shake it.
You probably have a dihydrogen monoxide problem too. I might
urge you to get help before it's too late, but you know what?
it's already too late. Now I try to live in my addictions one
meal at a time.
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:53:46 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: Re: Colonial Tech Levels in the Solomani Rim
Anthony Jackson wrote:
>As always, Traveller is vague about what tech level actually means. If it
>means manufacturing base (which is what some people assume), no world
>with a population below 7 should have a TL above 5.
I've always taken it to mean the TL of readily available equipment.
Adjust as necessary for atmosphere or starport. For example, if local
TL doesn't allow vacc suits but the local atmosphere is 0, then the
population lives underground and has a small number of vacc suits.
Just enough for the maintenance crews, not enough to sell to passing
free trader crews who want to go outside but are short a vacc suit.
If the place has a class B starport, but pre-stellar tech, then you can
still get an annual maintenance done there...some off-world corp
is running a maintenance shed there with regular off-world parts
shipments, but it hasn't been running long or large enough to give
the planet more than the TL boost you see on the planet generation
tables.
>I would usually make colonies at least 1 TL lower than the original world,
>however.
Same here, unless some special case was going on. A harsh world
mining colony might require a concentration of manufacturing and
scientific capability, for example, or a "colony" might consist of
rich industrialists and their newly-relocated, tax-havened factories.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:58:09 -0800
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
Subject: Re: Back in the saddle
Via electronic medium on 3/14/00 10:44 AM, Leonard Erickson
shadow@krypton.rain.com issued forth:
> Would you be interested in some speculation about what sort of
> conditions on-world would *make* heavy metal extraction from seawater
> more practical? Some of the possibilities would make for interesting
> background and hazards.
Ignore these requests to /not/ divulge information, if the poster does not
want hard data, the poster need not read your response. I, for one, find
many of your scientific posts quite interesting. You are probably the number
one target for flagging, although I have not tallied the saved messages in
my archive.
BZA's Traveller--> http://www.sierratel.com/aum/BZAT/
BZA's E-Mail--> xrp@sierratel.com
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2088
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, March 15 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2089
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
re: Sworld world names?
re: Famille Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
Re: Colonial Tech Levels in the Solomani Rim
Re: Vilani history and mindset
Re: NEW and Old
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2073
Re: One more reason GT is not an Edition
Missiles without a paper universe (mainly GT)
Re: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
Re: Ancients (was re: Parahumans and Solomani)
The sad saga of the T4 starship rules.
RE: Vilani history and mindset
Re: MONTANA-class Battleship
Re: Re Rules vs Setting
Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
Re: The sad saga of the T4 starship rules.
Re: The sad saga of the T4 starship rules.
Re: Sworld world names?
Re: Droyne
RE: Sworld world names?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:59:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: re: Sworld world names?
>From: Qstor@aol.comSubject:
>what are the other Sword World's named after?? Just
curious...:)
Gram is a unit of weight, and was the name of a very small sword
owned by a Dwarven king. It was said to weigh its name.
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:12:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: re: Famille Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
>From: "R.D. Elliott"
>Subject: Famille Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
>
>Excerpted from Imperial Yachting Digest, IY 012-032
That was good. I'll be thinking about it when I'm racing in San
Francisco Bay on Sunday.
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:12:58 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Colonial Tech Levels in the Solomani Rim
On 03/15/00 at 10:41 AM, Anthony Jackson said:
>> Question for the list:
>>
>> Does a colony world share the Tech Level of the world that made the
>> colony?
>>
>> I'm wondering specifically about Terran Confederation colonies during
>> the Interstellar war periods.
>>
>> I can understand worlds that are already inhabited having a lower TL but
>> I would think that a colony would share the homeworlds TL or maybe one
>> or two lower. i.e. they know how to make jump 2 drives they just don't
>> have the infrastructure in place yet to do so.
>As always, Traveller is vague about what tech level actually means. If
>it means manufacturing base (which is what some people assume), no world
>with a population below 7 should have a TL above 5. If it refers to the
>typical goods and services present on the world, it's anyone's guess. I
>would usually make colonies at least 1 TL lower than the original world,
>however.
Well, my take on TL is that it's what is generally available in that system. In many cases, that means manufactured there, but in others (like low pop worlds) it means imported but available. Oh, and just because the items are available doesn't mean they are common. The PC's may have to really dig to actually find that TL-9 framotz.
As to colonies, IMO, 1 or 2 TL lower unless they are a military/scout/research base. Those sort of bases are probably at mainworld levels.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 19:06:50 +0000
From: Paul Campbell
Subject: Re: Vilani history and mindset
On Wed, 15 Mar 2000, Ethan Henry wrote:
> Jens Rydholm wrote:
> > Imagine the number of catastrophic attempts made before someone proposed
> > the following:
> >
> > "What if we move further away from our planet?"
>
> Are you kidding? I would expect that they would have never even dreamed of
> testing it on-world until they'd made several successful jumps... remember
> testing the bomb?
>
> "Well, it might just be a really big conventional bomb, but then again,
> it might burn the entire atmosphere off."
>
> If I were in charge of trying out the first jump drive, I would have gone far,
> far away from everything and flipped the switch with a long, long pole.
>
> Ethan
How about the surface of another planet or moon. Until they try it in free
space...
By the way, what actually happens when you activate a jump drive on the surface
of a planet? I can't remember reading anywhere what happens in this case.
- --
Paul Campbell
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 19:19:45 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: NEW and Old
At 14:46 14.03.00 -0800, Troy Bradley wrote:
[snip]
> It
>appears that some people think this list is their
>personal fiefdom...THAT'S interesting!
I'm relatively new here, too. I do not aggree with your feelings. Not at all.
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 20:05:44 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2073
At 16:27 14.03.00 -0800, James W. Brewer wrote:
>I've ran a long range survey mission Rimward using T4, set during the Rim
>War. The idea is to contact colonies planted by the Terran Confederation
>during the wars with the Villani.
"Villaini"? Our friends at the Ministry of Truth will love that one!
;-)
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 20:04:20 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: One more reason GT is not an Edition
At 21:40 14.03.00 -0900, William F. Hostman wrote:
>{This is an addenda to a previous post of today by myself. Sorry. Aimed for
>John especially}
>
>One more reason that GT isn't actually an edition: it's "Officially" an
>extension of the classic setting, into an alternate non-rebellion timeline.
>
>Since it is neither a new setting (although it changes lots of little
>things), nor is it a traveller rules set (GT isn't actually a ruleset,
>merely a supplement...), it's really not an "Edition".
Thank you for this definition.
;)
Who cares? It's Traveller. And it makes Traveller more popular, thus making
it easier to find new players. Personnaly, I don't care for the rules
system (in fact, I prefer not to have to learn new rules for every new
setting), but I really care about the setting. And Trav's setting
(especially the classic one, which is just what GT is) is great and
deserves to live as publications in print.
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 20:14:43 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Missiles without a paper universe (mainly GT)
Hi!
I've encountered the following problem:
The GT rules propose that you use a hex map for space combat, with vector
counters for ships and missles, with celestial bodies on it, etc.
It's fairly easy to substitute this paper universe with a few numbers if
only two units/"squadrons.in.tight.formation" are involved _and_ you don't
use missiles (which are basically the additional units beyond the first
two): All you need is relative speed and distance, and the values of the
maneuver drive to change the relative speed as you wish.
What I need now is something to do with missiles. I've thought about
assigning a random number of turns until a possible impact and then make
the to-hit-rolls, but I still have no idea how to properly include
maneuverability of target and missiles, and possobly the tacics value of
the ships's commanders?
Any ideas?
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 19:59:54 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Meg>corps in OTU (Re: New Zealand air farce )
At 10:18 15.03.00 +1000, Alan Bradley wrote:
>> That's not fair. You can't blame OTU for the U.S. education system.
>> ;-)
>>
>> No, I feel more comfortable with an in-universe explanation.
>
>It's not just the US education system. Native Anglophones in general tend
>to be relatively weak in language skills. There's lots of reasons why -
>history, culture, geography etc - but these are basically OT.
Yes, they are.
>An in-universe explanation: well, if you look at the 21st century as a
>game, the "results" are obviously:
>Europe and North America:1
>Rest of the World: 0
You are referring to Trav material?
[snip]
>I wouldn't normally resort to this kind of explanation, except that it
>seems to fit some of the facts. Of course, we also know that the Turks
>were out there in a big way, and some of the worlds in the Solomani Rim,
>Diaspora, and so on have names derived from a wide range of languages, and
>that Nepal, amongst other places on Earth, was substantially industrialised
>during the Interstellar Wars, so clearly it isn't entirely one sided. None
>of this excludes the possibility of some Earth nations/regions being "first
>among equals" in early Terran interstellar society, and ultimately (in a
>vestigial form) being culturally over-represented in the Third Imperium.
>
>Wow. I'm writing some shocking sentences here.
Yes, you are.
:)
>Anyway, it's a bit sad
>that we have to do it, but we can explain why various Terran languages
>survive into the Third Imperium. That's good. Let's face it: if they
>didn't, the whole thing would be intensely dull.
Would it?
What about that other explanation?
Let's say, there has been some reason for a larger group of cultural
Germans from Terra to migrate to some worlds not too densely populated by
the Vilani(perhaps rimward, perhaps somewhere else). Let's say that this
took place at the end of the Nth war. These guys prospered on their new
homeworld, and when the Long Night came, they were seperated from the later
Old Earth Union by distance. During the Long Night, the established a few
other colonies on neighbouring systems (whose colonial population had
possibly died during the LN), thus creating a Long Night pocket empire with
German cultural roots. Economically powerful as they were, they encountered
the 3I later and joined it, with some of its corporations merging to form
new megacorps. And to remind the customer of the roots of these megacorps,
they named these corporations in German.
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:22:48 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Ancients (was re: Parahumans and Solomani)
On 03/15/00 at 06:45 PM, SD Mooney said:
>At 12:21 -0500 15/3/00, john hamilton wrote:
>> > Good point Doug had about the added confusion of
>> > finding facilities
>> > for "humans"
>>That wouldn't confuse.First ,those quaters would be
>>surpassed by droyne quarters in luxury,indicating who
>>was the boss.
>I suggest that you search out and read Twilights' Peak and The Secret
>of the Ancients before you decide to make nice sweeping statements about
>the Droyne. The new GT AR3 would also be a good idea if you can face
>buying a GURPS book. I believe Marc Miller is reprinting the old
>adventures (maybe next?)
From John's comments, I think he likes the GURPS books, so he shouldn't have an objection to buying AR3.
I thought Marc was doing the suppliements next and then the adventures. Doesn't matter, I'm planning on getting both. The reprint I got is of excellent quality, and I'm really looking forward to more.
>There is a serious jump from Ancient Technology >in CT). For an analogy, think how different life is now from 30 years
>ago, and from 100 years ago, and then from 1000 years ago. The
>Facilities could easily bewilder the human samples acquired by the
>Ancients. This is made clear in Twilight's Peak with descriptions of
>things as simple as toilets.
There is also the fact that after a few hundred thousand years a *lot* of the technology might simply not be there. It might have decayed into dust and blown away.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:27:08 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: The sad saga of the T4 starship rules.
SD Mooney wrote:
> Funny, ISTR that T4 has a starship construction system in the rules
> (albeit with need of errata) and TNE doesn't. Kind of made TNE in
> need of Brilliant Lances or FFS1.
Actually, T4 had some Errata in need of a starship design system, and
TNE (ISTR) had some rules about converting MT ships.
The T4 system was supposed to be The Newbies to The Gearheads absolutely
favorite Ship Design System of All Time.
Too bad the ultimate dream was never realized, which was that the QSDS
in T4, SSDS in Starships and FFS2 were to be complementary systems of
increasing complexity and detail. You were _supposed_ to be able to use
FFS2 to create modules for SSDS and QSDS. (As both SSDS and QSDS were
derived from modularized systems being done for FFS)
QSDS was supposed to let you design a Chevy Nova.
SSDS was supposed to let you design a Chevy Nova with either the 225ci
straight 6 cylinder or the 325 ci V-8.
FFS2 was supposed to let you make a candy-apple red Chevy Nova with the
325 ci V8 overbored to 350 CI, 2 Holley 4 barrel
carbs, racing cams, Edelbrock headers, a 4:1 Positrac rear-end, a chrome
'footsie' gas pedal, a Hurst shifter and red velvet dingle balls on the
dashboard.
It was also supposed to let you take all of that and make the 'Hot Rod
Nova' package to plug into QSDS or SSDS.
This was then doomed from about 3.5 seconds after the first proposal of
this was heartily accepted by the gearheads on the list when IG gave 'em
2, yes TWO weeks to create QSDS and SSDS _BEFORE_ FFS2 was even written.
This meant that the main architects of these systems delivered their
products to IG after not sleeping for two weeks (Hmmm...I _wonder_ where
the errata came from!)
Both sytems were designed by TML members after Marc mentioned that he
was going back to a LBB style of ship design. This raised a minor TML
revolt among the fans of FFS. IG said '...if you don't like it, fix
it!', and damn they tried...people worked their asses off for no pay,
little recognition, just the chance to Do Things Right.
IG then a) sat on the ^^#%@$ stuff for months and b) published them in
such horrific edited-with-a-hand-grenade style that the rules were
useless as published. To make matters worse, the published ships in T4,
quite simply, were NOT possible to construct using the design system
(even the corrected version) in the book. (nor any other Traveller
design system before or since, since the author apparently made up the
stats out of whole cloth)
Then, what they made the Guy and Dave, authors of FFS2 endure, I won't
go into for fear I'll go postal on the next poor schlub who comes into
our office with a problem.
Suffice it to say, that the original plans certainly DIDN'T come
together.
Even PINKY could have seen the problems in the plans that did happen.
The entire T4 line did that to a lot of people. A lot of the T4 material
(and most of the really good stuff) originated with people on this list:
Pocket Empires, FFS2, Psionics Institutes, Milieu 0, and other's I'm
probably forgetting.
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:27:35 -0700
From: Jason Postma
Subject: RE: Vilani history and mindset
A jump drive actiavted on a planet's surface automatically misjumps - it's
well within ten diamaters of the planet's surface. You might have a
thunderclap-sound when air rushes into the area left by the ship as well.
By the time someone can build a working jump drive, I'm sure they have some
theory as to why it would work as well. The first experimenters with jump
drive probably already knew that gravity wells would have a profound effect
on the drive and so tested their first drives far enough away to minimize
the effect.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Paul Campbell [mailto:kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 12:07 PM
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject: Re: Vilani history and mindset
On Wed, 15 Mar 2000, Ethan Henry wrote:
> Jens Rydholm wrote:
> > Imagine the number of catastrophic attempts made before someone proposed
> > the following:
> >
> > "What if we move further away from our planet?"
>
> Are you kidding? I would expect that they would have never even dreamed of
> testing it on-world until they'd made several successful jumps... remember
> testing the bomb?
>
> "Well, it might just be a really big conventional bomb, but then again,
> it might burn the entire atmosphere off."
>
> If I were in charge of trying out the first jump drive, I would have gone
far,
> far away from everything and flipped the switch with a long, long pole.
>
> Ethan
How about the surface of another planet or moon. Until they try it in free
space...
By the way, what actually happens when you activate a jump drive on the
surface
of a planet? I can't remember reading anywhere what happens in this case.
- --
Paul Campbell
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:32:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: MONTANA-class Battleship
>From: Black ICE
>> Visualizing a half a megaton of something comming in through
>>the atmosphere hypersonic.....>
>> "Moommmmyyyyyyy!"
>Actually, it's _far_ worse than that. The actual loaded mass
>of a MONTANA-class battleship is nearly 7.6 million metric
>tons. The _volume_ is 500,000 dtons.
>Gives a whole new slant on "Big Sky" (the state of Montana's
>nickname), doesn't it? ;-)
It's a medium cylinder, so my calculations are 142m diameter and
426m length. So it's almost half a kilometer (over 1/4 mile)
long, which is pretty big for something in the sky, but not
quite Independence Day scale.
In keeping with my third grade teacher's admonition that I
always show my work:
500,000dtons at 13.5m3 per dton = 6,750,000m3
Vol = pi x r2 x length
Assume length = 3 diameters, or 6 radii
Vol = pi x r2 x 6r
6,750,000m3 = pi x r2 x 6r
1,125,000m3 = pi x r3
358,098m3 = r3
71m = r
diameter = 2r = 142m
length = 6r = 426m
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:13:41
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Re Rules vs Setting
At 09:19 AM 3/15/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>Chris Seamans writes:
>> Not just *any* crashed starship. It was supposed to be a piece of The
>> Warden. Some of us "older" players remember why that was significant! :)
>
>While I remember Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, I don't recall anything
>about the Warden. Why _is_ that significant? ;)
I'll let Herb the mutant potted plant answer that one.
"Thanks Doug! Y'see meat-things, the Wardn was the badly designed
generation ship in TSR's Metamorphosis Alpha game. Set after a mysterious
radiation accident has decimated the crew and colonists, the characters
wander about a dungeon, err, a ship filled with improbable mutants like me.
Now submit to my will, meat beings! Your reign of terror is over!! Ooops,
sorry, that's the other brain, Daisy, speaking. She has issues."
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
Egotist: a person more interested in himself than in me.
- -- Ambrose Bierce
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:15:30
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
At 11:54 AM 3/15/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>On 03/15/00 at 12:52 PM, Ewan Quibell said:
>
>>The bowler in the team that is out, bowls the ball at the batsman who is
>>in, in the team which is in, who is trying not to get out. The batsman
>>can be out many ways, but what is also important to note is that he can
>>also be not out. When all the batsman who are in are out, including not
>>out, the team that was in goes out and the team which was out goes in.
>
>Still clear. When are you going to get to the confusing parts? ;-p
In revenge, I shall explain the infield fly rule to them.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:14:45
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
At 06:20 PM 3/15/2000 +0000, you wrote:
>At 8:06 -0500 15/3/00, Phil Kitching wrote:
>>Unless England was in and is now out, when it is usually called "lunch".
>>
>>I hope this clarifies the finer points.
>
>Hmm. Modelling cricket with ACQ anyone?
Sadly, you could probably do it.
I said *you*, I'm taking enough heat for the penguins.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:36:26 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: The sad saga of the T4 starship rules.
On 03/15/00 at 12:27 PM, Bruce Johnson said:
>SD Mooney wrote:
>> Funny, ISTR that T4 has a starship construction system in the rules
>> (albeit with need of errata) and TNE doesn't. Kind of made TNE in
>> need of Brilliant Lances or FFS1.
>Actually, T4 had some Errata in need of a starship design system, and TNE
>(ISTR) had some rules about converting MT ships.
>The T4 system was supposed to be The Newbies to The Gearheads absolutely
>favorite Ship Design System of All Time.
GURPS picked up on the idea with it's Starship Modules in GT and Space 3rd. In my mind, I see them as a second edition of QSDS/SDS...that's just in *my* mind so don't jump on me.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:47:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: The sad saga of the T4 starship rules.
eris@pcola.gulf.net writes:
>
> GURPS picked up on the idea with it's Starship Modules in GT and Space 3rd.
> In my mind, I see them as a second edition of QSDS/SDS...that's just in *my* mind so don't jump on me.
Modularized creation was probably based on CT ship construction, which
basically worked that way.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:40:53 -0800
From: "Jesse LaBranche"
Subject: Re: Sworld world names?
> The Tolkien names were Narsil, Sting , Orcrist(?) and Anduril.
> Bruce Johnson
"Orcrest"... The easiest way to remember this one is to break
it down "Orc Rest". Also, just for reference, the actual name of
Sting was Glamdring IIRC.
Later.
Jesse.
vanquer@email.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:58:11 -0900
From: Peter Newman
Subject: Re: Droyne
> "Carlos Alos-Ferrer"
> Subject: Re: (was Re: Parahumans and Solomani)
> Peter Newman wrote:
> > I have always wondered if Grandfathers children weren't clones.
> > Droyne reproduction is weird enough as is that Grandfather may
> > not have fit into the normal process. Notice that he had only
> > sons, and apparently Alpha males only at that.
> Altered clones, probably. If they were identical to Grandfather, I
> don't see how would he have won the war against 420 copies of
> himself.
Its possible that Grandfather had a back door into all his
Children's technology, robots, and human servants. This could
provide him victory even if his opponents were genetically
equal to him.
[This might explain why the technology at each Ancient site
is different - the Grandchild in charge of that world was
frantically rewriting his tech base in a futile attempt
to remove Grandfathers back door.]
Since Grandfather was older than his children and Grandchildren
and canon [Zhodani Alien Module] states that new Psionic
powers can be developed during character generation it
is likely that Grandfather had better psionic powers than
any of the Children and Grandchildren. Note that the
description of Grandfather in Adv. 12 states, that he was
the only one to master the level 15 Awareness psi talent
of immortality through total cell regeneration. It does
not, IIRC, say that the Children & Grandchildren also had
this talent. Without the Immortality Psi talent the
children would, arguably & depending on how similar
Droyne and Ancients were, still be vulnerable to the
Droyne suicide urge while Grandfather was immune to it -
then the Last War just becomes an effort by Grandfather to
key that urge.
If I were having kids I would want to have some sort of
biochemical trait put into their genes so I could easily
kill them when they started to get uppity. Droyne already
have such a mechanism that tells them to kill themselves
when they are of no use to the community. If Grandfather
had developed a combination Psionic/Biological weapon to
tell his children they were unneeded and should kill them-
selves, inoculated himself against its effects, and set
the weapon on his Children/Grandchildren he could have
killed them all. All the physical destruction of the Last
War would then have been caused by Grandchildren fighting
amongst themselves, which is canon, or by Grandfathers
machines wearing down their defenses so he could attack
with his (possibly short range) "You will kill yourself"
weapon.
> OTOH, he probably was bored enough to want some variance. An
> alternative is that he tried to "uplift" Droyne to his level, ending
> somewhere in the middle.
Another possibility of course was that the Grandchildren's
inferiority to him may have been due to Grandfathers use of
the old fashioned methods of reproduction and Grandfathers
superior mutant genes being partially swamped by inferior
Droyne genes.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:58:43 -0700
From: Jason Postma
Subject: RE: Sworld world names?
No, Glamdring was Gandalf's sword. The only name Sting had was Sting.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jesse LaBranche [mailto:Vanquer@email.msn.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 12:41 PM
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject: Re: Sworld world names?
> The Tolkien names were Narsil, Sting , Orcrist(?) and Anduril.
> Bruce Johnson
"Orcrest"... The easiest way to remember this one is to break
it down "Orc Rest". Also, just for reference, the actual name of
Sting was Glamdring IIRC.
Later.
Jesse.
vanquer@email.msn.com
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2089
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, March 15 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2090
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
re: Alien Sport
RE: Colonial Tech Levels in the Solomani Rim
Re: Colonial Tech Levels in the Solomani Rim
Re:Ancients
Re: Sworld world names?
Jump drive activation inside a gravitational field
Re: Sworld world names?
RE: Sworld world names?
Re: Sworld world names?
Re: Sworld world names?
Re: Sworld world names?
Re: The sad saga of the T4 starship rules.
RE: Colonial Tech Levels in the Solomani Rim
RE: Famile Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
Re: Droyne
RE: Sworld world names?
Re:Ancients
Re: Best rules system
Re: Re Rules vs Setting
Vs: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are" [sic]
Re: Parahumans and Solomani
Re: Best rules system
Improbable Mutants
RE: Best rules system
Re: Imperial citizenship documents (was Re: Psionic/jump drives)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:59:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: re: Alien Sport
>From: "Garcia, Abel"
>ASLAN - The one on one "Monkey-Hunt", where depending on the
>kitten's age determines what kind of monkey he fights. As the
>Aslan progresses through "monkeys" he gets to fashion his knife
>sheath from the pelt of most difficult "monkey-type" defeated.
Remember that Aslan typically dislike blade weapons, preferring
to use their own dewclaws.
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 15:01:35 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: RE: Colonial Tech Levels in the Solomani Rim
Walter Smith writes:
>Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>As always, Traveller is vague about what tech level actually means. If it
>>means manufacturing base (which is what some people assume), no world
>>with a population below 7 should have a TL above 5.
>I've always taken it to mean the TL of readily available equipment.
>Adjust as necessary for atmosphere or starport. For example, if local
>TL doesn't allow vacc suits but the local atmosphere is 0, then the
>population lives underground and has a small number of vacc suits.
>Just enough for the maintenance crews, not enough to sell to passing
>free trader crews who want to go outside but are short a vacc suit.
I'm with you here. This also means that the average citizen on
said planet does not have access to a vacc suit, or high-TL
weapons (not that PC's worry about those sorts of things ;).
In general, I assume that regular police and army units are
also restricted to local TL equipment (even if that equipment
has been manufactured on a nearby world with a higher TL), and
commando or elite units may have more sophisticated equipment
(probably with cadre from off-world). The same would be true
of security systems, transportation (the king can inspect his
cavalry units from the comfort of his air/raft), etc.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 15:08:16 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: Re: Colonial Tech Levels in the Solomani Rim
Eris writes:
>Well, my take on TL is that it's what is generally available in that system.
>In many cases, that means manufactured there, but in others (like low pop
>worlds) it means imported but available. Oh, and just because the items are
>available doesn't mean they are common. The PC's may have to really dig to
>actually find that TL-9 framotz.
I also tend to make some things harder to get (and more expensive) on
Non-industrial worlds.
>As to colonies, IMO, 1 or 2 TL lower unless they are a military/scout/
>research base. Those sort of bases are probably at mainworld levels.
This is good for a general rule, but one might have some immigrants
from the next system stting up a TL 8 mining colony in a system
dominated by a TL 4 world. It may not be common, but if a couple of
enterprising belters find something valuable...
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:07:46 -0900
From: Peter Newman
Subject: Re:Ancients
I had a character who believed that the _Vargr_ were the
Ancients. It had been her father's pet theory, which was
why he used to be a University professor and now was a
janitor. I carefully gathered up the arguments that
could be used to "prove" this nut case theory. It was sort
of funny when the characters encountered an Ancient site
and Sigrid had to change her mind.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 15:12:28 -0500
From: "James Fleming"
Subject: Re: Sworld world names?
> > The Tolkien names were Narsil, Sting , Orcrist(?) and Anduril.
> > Bruce Johnson
>
> "Orcrest"... The easiest way to remember this one is to break
> it down "Orc Rest". Also, just for reference, the actual name of
> Sting was Glamdring IIRC.
>
> Later.
>
> Jesse.
> vanquer@email.msn.com
Thanks guys. I just found the Spinward Marches I downloaded not too long
ago and it seems that there are quite a lot of Tolkien sword names there.
Maybe the Sword Worlds were settled by a bunch of TSR or I.C.E. refugees :)
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:12:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Jump drive activation inside a gravitational field
Paul Campbell wrote:
>
>By the way, what actually happens when you activate a jump
>drive on the surface of a planet? I can't remember reading
>anywhere what happens in this case.
Ah, we have another frequently-discussed topic for the recently
announced de-lurkers. Gentlemen, short opposing position papers
on this subject, please!
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:16:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: Sworld world names?
>From: "Jesse LaBranche"
>"Orcrest"... The easiest way to remember this one is to break
Isn't there a world called Biter, which was the name of one of
the Hobbits' swords?
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:31:07 -0700
From: Jason Postma
Subject: RE: Sworld world names?
Biter was another name for Orcrist (Thorin's sword in the Hobbit). Beater
was another name for Glamdring (Gandalf's sword). The hobbits only had one
named sword - Sting. Narsil and Anduril are actually the same sword -
Aragorn's. It has two names because it was re-forged (it was Narsil and
became Anduril).
- -----Original Message-----
From: Glenn Goffin [mailto:gmgoffin@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 1:17 PM
To: traveller mailing aa list
Subject: Re: Sworld world names?
>From: "Jesse LaBranche"
>"Orcrest"... The easiest way to remember this one is to break
Isn't there a world called Biter, which was the name of one of
the Hobbits' swords?
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:34:39 -0600
From: "Thomas Vickers"
Subject: Re: Sworld world names?
Biter was Sting was it not?
At least that is what the Goblin's called it.
I even seem to remember that Gandalf's sword had
a similar name from the Goblins. (Beater perhaps?)
Then again it has been 10 years since I read the books.
TV
- ------------------------
"Never apologize, never explain."
Hunter S. Thompson
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Glenn Goffin"
To: "traveller mailing aa list"
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 2:16 PM
Subject: Re: Sworld world names?
> >From: "Jesse LaBranche"
>
> >"Orcrest"... The easiest way to remember this one is to break
>
> Isn't there a world called Biter, which was the name of one of
> the Hobbits' swords?
>
> --Glenn
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
> http://im.yahoo.com
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:35:03 -0800
From: "Jesse LaBranche"
Subject: Re: Sworld world names?
> Isn't there a world called Biter, which was the name of one of
> the Hobbits' swords?
> --Glenn
Okay, my mistake on Orcrest- It is Orcrist.
Here's the swords from Tolkien:
Glamdring, Foe-Hammer, Beater: Gandalf's sword.
Orcrist, Goblin-Cleaver, Biter: Glamdring's mate carried by Thorin
Narsil, sword of Elendil, broken sword: Aragorn's sword
(This is the same sword which cut the One Ring from Sauron's finger)
Sting was a long knife, not a sword and thus probably did not have a "real"
name.
Maybe when everyone left Middle Earth on the
Elven ships, they travelled to the Sword Worlds ;-)
Later.
Jesse.
vanquer@email.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 15:37:43 -0500
From: "James Fleming"
Subject: Re: Sworld world names?
Glenn writes:
>
> Isn't there a world called Biter, which was the name of one of
> the Hobbits' swords?
Yes, IIRC both Biter and Beater were what the Goblins called Gandalf's sword
Glamdring and Thorin's sword Orcrist. I'm not sure if it's in that
particular order, it's been awhile since I've read the Hobbit. The only
Hobbit sword I can remember off the top of my head was Bilbo's sword Sting.
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:51:17 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: The sad saga of the T4 starship rules.
On 03/15/00 at 11:47 AM, Anthony Jackson said:
>eris@pcola.gulf.net writes:
>>
>> GURPS picked up on the idea with it's Starship Modules in GT and Space 3rd.
>> In my mind, I see them as a second edition of QSDS/SDS...that's just in *my* mind so don't jump on me.
>Modularized creation was probably based on CT ship construction, which
>basically worked that way.
But wasn't based on and compatable with a much more detailed book...and I said it was in MY mind not Loren's.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 15:58:48 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: RE: Colonial Tech Levels in the Solomani Rim
Ian Ferguson wrote:
>In general, I assume that regular police and army units are
>also restricted to local TL equipment (even if that equipment
>has been manufactured on a nearby world with a higher TL), and
>commando or elite units may have more sophisticated equipment
>(probably with cadre from off-world). The same would be true
>of security systems, transportation (the king can inspect his
>cavalry units from the comfort of his air/raft), etc.
I think this will depend on the purpose of the military units. If they
are intended to suppress local dissent or keep a similar-TL balkanized
world native at bay, I think this is accurate. If their entire purpose is
to defend the world against a stellar-tech intruder - a P*rate, or
enemy state if near a border world - then I think the higher-tech
off-world cadre may grow to the maximum size the world can afford.
Which is more useful against a stellar-tech invader, a platoon of
grav tanks and a company of combat-armored soldiers, or several
divisions of pikemen?
I agree that police units (and military units in police roles) should be
mainly local tech, but I can certainly imagine a special police unit -
especially one based near the local startown - fitted out with imported
higher-tech equipment, just in case the crew of a Free Trader decides
to take over the local finance district with a couple of laser rifles and
a suit of combat armor.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:04:21 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff
Subject: RE: Famile Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
They have to re-paint it after each race :) You don't know HOW bad I want
to crank out a shot of this, but AR3 has to have my full attention else I
won't make the deadline.
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Jens Rydholm
> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 9:46 AM
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
>
>
> Michael Peters wrote:
> > Humm, Change the Beer Fridge to a Soda Fridge and this could be named
> > "DITZIE'S GO-CART". I can see it now with a brightly colored "I Love
> > H.E." painted down it's side...
>
> Although the paint would be burned away pretty quickly during atmosphere
> surfing :-)
>
> /Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:27:58 +0000
From: "Carlos Alos-Ferrer"
Subject: Re: Droyne
> > Peter Newman wrote:
>
> > > I have always wondered if Grandfathers children weren't clones.
> > > Droyne reproduction is weird enough as is that Grandfather may
> > > not have fit into the normal process. Notice that he had only
> > > sons, and apparently Alpha males only at that.
I wrote:
> > Altered clones, probably. If they were identical to Grandfather, I
> > don't see how would he have won the war against 420 copies of
> > himself.
Peter wrote:
> Its possible that Grandfather had a back door into all his
> Children's technology, robots, and human servants. This could
> provide him victory even if his opponents were genetically
> equal to him.
> [This might explain why the technology at each Ancient site
> is different - the Grandchild in charge of that world was
> frantically rewriting his tech base in a futile attempt
> to remove Grandfathers back door.]
If it really was futile, why did the Final War took so long?
I think it is stated somewhere that it took thousands of years.
> Since Grandfather was older than his children and Grandchildren
> and canon [Zhodani Alien Module] states that new Psionic
> powers can be developed during character generation it
> is likely that Grandfather had better psionic powers than
> any of the Children and Grandchildren. Note that the
> description of Grandfather in Adv. 12 states, that he was
> the only one to master the level 15 Awareness psi talent
> of immortality through total cell regeneration. It does
> not, IIRC, say that the Children & Grandchildren also had
> this talent. Without the Immortality Psi talent the
> children would, arguably & depending on how similar
> Droyne and Ancients were, still be vulnerable to the
> Droyne suicide urge while Grandfather was immune to it -
> then the Last War just becomes an effort by Grandfather to
> key that urge.
...and its onset could be provoked by the fact that some of them (the
first 20?) were already reaching a dangerous level...
> If I were having kids I would want to have some sort of
> biochemical trait put into their genes so I could easily
> kill them when they started to get uppity.
My, Peter, ain't you paternal.... ;->
> Droyne already
> have such a mechanism that tells them to kill themselves
> when they are of no use to the community. If Grandfather
> had developed a combination Psionic/Biological weapon to
> tell his children they were unneeded and should kill them-
> selves, inoculated himself against its effects, and set
> the weapon on his Children/Grandchildren he could have
> killed them all. All the physical destruction of the Last
> War would then have been caused by Grandchildren fighting
> amongst themselves, which is canon, or by Grandfathers
> machines wearing down their defenses so he could attack
> with his (possibly short range) "You will kill yourself"
> weapon.
...which maybe did not work with the first 20. Are there any canonc
references to differences between the first 20 and the next 400? How
much time did it go by between the first generation and the second?
> > OTOH, he probably was bored enough to want some variance. An
> > alternative is that he tried to "uplift" Droyne to his level, ending
> > somewhere in the middle.
> Another possibility of course was that the Grandchildren's
> inferiority to him may have been due to Grandfathers use of
> the old fashioned methods of reproduction and Grandfathers
> superior mutant genes being partially swamped by inferior
> Droyne genes.
He he he. Is there a Grandmother in Grandfather's pocket universe?
Carlos
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 20:46:42 -0000
From: "Alistair J. R. Young"
Subject: RE: Sworld world names?
> > The Tolkien names were Narsil, Sting , Orcrist(?) and Anduril.
> > Bruce Johnson
>
> "Orcrest"... The easiest way to remember this one is to break
> it down "Orc Rest". Also, just for reference, the actual name of
> Sting was Glamdring IIRC.
No, Glamdring was one of a matched pair with Orcrist. And, ISTR, Biter and
Beater were the goblinish nicknames in the Hobbit for Glamdring and Orcrist,
or possibly the other way around.
Alistair
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:31:45 +0000
From: "Carlos Alos-Ferrer"
Subject: Re:Ancients
Peter wrote:
> I had a character who believed that the _Vargr_ were the
> Ancients. It had been her father's pet theory, which was
> why he used to be a University professor and now was a
> janitor. I carefully gathered up the arguments that
> could be used to "prove" this nut case theory. It was sort
> of funny when the characters encountered an Ancient site
> and Sigrid had to change her mind.
Just have your character ask any Geonee IMTU who the Ancients *are.*
Carlos
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:35:26 -0800
From: "David P. Summers"
Subject: Re: Best rules system
At 4:05 AM -0900 3/14/00, William F. Hostman wrote:
> >1.How many versions of Traveller have been released at
> >this point?
>
>IMHO: 4.5
>CT, MT, TNE, T4
>GT isn't quite a full edition IMHO... it lacks similarity in CGen and other
>areas.
Sorry? GURPS has a quite complete character generation system,
it is just point based rather than random.
I take it you meant to say that it is different (I presume) in
that it doesn't do random character generation like that in CT/MT
not that it isn't "a full edition"?
Or is the just a statement of the view that if it doesn't use
CT style rules it must not be "real Traveller"?
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net. My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 16:38:06 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Re Rules vs Setting
From: Anthony Jackson
> > Not just *any* crashed starship. It was supposed to be a piece of
> > The Warden. Some of us "older" players remember why that was
> significant! :)
>
> While I remember Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, I don't recall
> anything about the Warden. Why _is_ that significant? ;)
The Warden was the setting for TSR's Metamorphosis Alpha which was the first
science-fiction roleplaying game. "Expedition to the Barrier Peaks" was
originally designed to introduce convention goers who were familiar with
AD&D to the newly released sci-fi game.
The fact that it's the Warden never actually comes into play in the
adventure itself and it's only mentioned, explicitly in implicitly (I can't
remember) in the introduction.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 00:00:51 +0200
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jussi_Kenkkil=E4?=
Subject: Vs: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are" [sic]
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Volker Greimann
To:
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 11:59 AM
Subject: re: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are" [sic]
> At 01:17 15.03.00, you wrote:
>
> >I know that most Americans cease formal study of English at or before
> >age 18. Is it more common for non-native speakers of English to learn
> >the language at an early age, or in adulthood?
>
> Hmmm, i started in fourth grade and had it up to thirteenth grade
> = 10 years in school
>
I had from 3rd to 12th, a quite similar span of time.
- -J2K
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 15:51:46 -0600
From: Stormhound
Subject: Re: Parahumans and Solomani
Bruce Johnson wrote:
> In Earthly terms, this is like trying to reconstruct your keyboard from
> a loose key with the letter 'B', the upper right hand corner of a
> membrane keypad from a microwave labelled in arabic, and a Chinese
> television remote with all the lettering worn off.
>
> Got it?
>
> Now try to figure out human control systems in a recovered 67 Corvette.
>
> THAT'S what dealing with Ancient Devices is like.
In other words, you're saying it's roughly equivalent to trying to
decipher the instruction manual for the new VCR?
- --
Stormhound
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:55:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: Best rules system
David P. Summers writes:
> >GT isn't quite a full edition IMHO... it lacks similarity in CGen and
> >other areas.
>
> Sorry? GURPS has a quite complete character generation system,
> it is just point based rather than random.
Actually, it's true that 'GURPS Traveller' is not a complete edition of traveller. To be a complete edition of traveller, rules would have to
be part of the GT product, and they aren't -- the basic rules are in a
product (GURPS Basic) which is not a part of the GT line. If GURPS Lite
had been included in GT you could call it a complete edition of traveller,
however.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 16:59:37 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Improbable Mutants
From: Douglas E. Berry
> "Thanks Doug! Y'see meat-things, the Wardn was the badly
> designed generation ship in TSR's Metamorphosis Alpha game. Set
> after a mysterious radiation accident has decimated the crew and
> colonists, the characters wander about a dungeon, err, a ship filled
> with improbable mutants like me. Now submit to my will, meat
> beings! Your reign of terror is over!! Ooops, sorry, that's the other
> brain, Daisy, speaking. She has issues."
You say that as if it's a bad thing! :)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 15:02:22 -0700
From: Jason Postma
Subject: RE: Best rules system
He's right that GURPS has little in common with Traveller, rules-wise. Of
course, GURPS probably has skills and Tech Levels as a direct consequence of
Traveller.
If similarity with former versions is a determining factor as to whether
something is Traveller or not, then T:NE has to be excluded as well.
Character creation and combat were both quite different from former
editions, and the background of course was nearly completely different -
right down to some of the physical laws of the universe.
If changes of background are a determining factor (I believe someone said
GURPS:T wasn't a full version because it used the same background as CT),
then only MT and T:NE are actual editions, as those are the only two games
that chronicled major changes in the Traveller background. T4 fits right in
to existing Traveller history (or was intended to).
The number of Traveller rules editions that have been released are five, and
the reason I know this is that there are five seperate rules systems that
can be used to play a game with the Traveller background (whether or not all
the rules are included in the basic books is immaterial - how many people
think Traveller can really be played with just ONE book? I remind you that
the LBBs and MT both had three basic books):
Classic Traveller
MegaTraveller
Traveller: The New Era
Marc Miller's Traveller
GURPS: Traveller
My own opinion as to the best rules system? Unimportant. No one really
cares and I couldn't convince some one who already had a different opinion
from my own.
- -----Original Message-----
From: David P. Summers [mailto:summers@alum.mit.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 2:35 PM
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject: Re: Best rules system
At 4:05 AM -0900 3/14/00, William F. Hostman wrote:
> >1.How many versions of Traveller have been released at
> >this point?
>
>IMHO: 4.5
>CT, MT, TNE, T4
>GT isn't quite a full edition IMHO... it lacks similarity in CGen and other
>areas.
Sorry? GURPS has a quite complete character generation system,
it is just point based rather than random.
I take it you meant to say that it is different (I presume) in
that it doesn't do random character generation like that in CT/MT
not that it isn't "a full edition"?
Or is the just a statement of the view that if it doesn't use
CT style rules it must not be "real Traveller"?
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net. My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in
California.)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 17:17:47 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin
Subject: Re: Imperial citizenship documents (was Re: Psionic/jump drives)
On Tue, 14 Mar 2000 00:21:39 -0500 (EST), Steve Daniels
wrote:
>Glenn Goffin wrote:
>> By the way, Imperial citizenship is automatically granted to
>> anyone who is a citizen of an Imperial member world, however
>> that person got citizenship there (being born there, immigrating
>> and meeting naturalization requirements, mother was a citizen,
>> whatever).
>You sure about that?
I'm pretty sure that what I wrote in the Warrant makes Glenn's
statement correct.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2090
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, March 15 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2091
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: The Mire Run (both parts)
Re: Parahumans and Solomani
RE: Alien Sport
Re: Parahumans and Solomani
Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLERWENT DOWN)
Re: Best rules system
Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
Re: Best rules system
A differnt First contact (long)(was RE: Vilani history and mindset)
Re: Parahumans and Solomani
Re: Best rules system
Re: Jump drive activation inside a gravitational field
Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLERWENT DOWN)
Re: Weather Control
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Droyne
Re: Sworld world names?
Re: Sworld world names?
Re: Parahumans and Solomani
Re: Droyne
Re: Parahumans and Solomani
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 17:17:51 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin
Subject: Re: The Mire Run (both parts)
On Tue, 14 Mar 2000 06:48:08 -0500 (EST), "Katharine Whitchurch"
wrote:
(Actually, it was Ian, not Katharine)
>(c) Ian Whitchurch, 2000. Not to be reprinted without my permission, except
>in Jeff Zeitlin's online zine Freelance Traveller. And he has to do the
>HTML.
:) I _always_ do the HTML! Thanks; it's snarfed and awaiting.
Just a little bit of a funny, for those that appreciate odd
coincidences:
As many of you know, I'm a member of the Society for Creative
Anachronism, in the New York City area. This area is called by
the SCA "The Crown Province of Østgarðr". A Crown Province is
reigned over by a Viceroy and Vicereine. The current holders of
those offices are known to their subjects as "Ian" and
"Katherine" - only one letter off...
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 17:09:52 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Parahumans and Solomani
From: Stormhound
> > THAT'S what dealing with Ancient Devices is like.
>
> In other words, you're saying it's roughly equivalent to trying to
> decipher the instruction manual for the new VCR?
Probably even worse, like trying to figure out how to play Go from a one
page instruction manual poorly translated into English.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 17:12:46 -0500
From: "Garcia, Abel"
Subject: RE: Alien Sport
- -----Original Message-----
>From: "Garcia, Abel"
>ASLAN - The one on one "Monkey-Hunt", where depending on the
>kitten's age determines what kind of monkey he fights. As the
>Aslan progresses through "monkeys" he gets to fashion his knife
>sheath from the pelt of most difficult "monkey-type" defeated.
From: Glenn Goffin
Remember that Aslan typically dislike blade weapons, preferring
to use their own dewclaws.
Glenn,
Good point; I wasn't thinking of this as I was blithely typing away, awash
in competitive pheromones and licking my flaring nostrils to get better
reception...(inspired by all the recent "alien" posts.) Maybe then it is a
ceremonial sheath in the tradition of martial art rank belts; you know white
through red/black. A Rank belt "could" be used to hold up your
trousers/pants/cat-tubes, but probably would only really be worn during
training and competition; in the same tradition, this sheath probably
couldn't hold a knife even if you wanted.
OK how about this Aslan sport: "Fire-Leap" where two Aslan face off just
outside leaping distance from each other with a one-shot laser
carbine/pistol. The power output of this claw-held laser will only burn fur
and blister skin. The game ends when at least one Aslan is on his back; it
is a point of honor that if hit with a laser an Aslan will fall to his back.
If neither is hit then they fight until one lands on his back...if they both
are "backed" by a laser shot, then the game goes to sudden death...
Abel
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 15:14:08 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Parahumans and Solomani
Stormhound wrote:
>
> Bruce Johnson wrote:
>
> > THAT'S what dealing with Ancient Devices is like.
>
> In other words, you're saying it's roughly equivalent to trying to
> decipher the instruction manual for the new VCR?
Well, I _had_ thought of that, but I wanted to have a more believable
example ;-)
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 08:23:21 +1000
From: "Scout Harris"
Subject: Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLERWENT DOWN)
- --
On Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:15:30 Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>At 11:54 AM 3/15/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>>On 03/15/00 at 12:52 PM, Ewan Quibell said:
>>
>>>The bowler in the team that is out, bowls the ball at the batsman who is
>>>in, in the team which is in, who is trying not to get out. The batsman
>>>can be out many ways, but what is also important to note is that he can
>>>also be not out. When all the batsman who are in are out, including not
>>>out, the team that was in goes out and the team which was out goes in.
>>
>>Still clear. When are you going to get to the confusing parts? ;-p
>
>In revenge, I shall explain the infield fly rule to them.
And we will explain the postition of the "Silly Mid Off".
Or how to "bowl a maiden over".....
Or what a "Googly" is.... ;)
I havn't been following this thread to well, I hope this hasn't been mentioned already!
Scout Harris
Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:34:15 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: Best rules system
At 17:09 -0500 15/3/00, "David P. Summers" wrote:
> >GT isn't quite a full edition IMHO... it lacks similarity in CGen and other
> >areas.
>
>Sorry? GURPS has a quite complete character generation system,
>it is just point based rather than random.
>
>I take it you meant to say that it is different (I presume) in
>that it doesn't do random character generation like that in CT/MT
>not that it isn't "a full edition"?
I think that is what he means by 'it lacks similarity in CGen [Dom
thinks you should add: to CT/MT] and other areas'.
It is radically different to CT/MT/T4 (although T4 did have the choose option).
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:29:41 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
At 14:58 -0500 15/3/00, "Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
>At 06:20 PM 3/15/2000 +0000, you wrote:
> >At 8:06 -0500 15/3/00, Phil Kitching wrote:
> >>Unless England was in and is now out, when it is usually called "lunch".
> >>
> >>I hope this clarifies the finer points.
> >
> >Hmm. Modelling cricket with ACQ anyone?
>
>Sadly, you could probably do it.
Cricket Ball as a grenade? or is a grenade?
>I said *you*, I'm taking enough heat for the penguins.
;-) I told Andy that if he didn't include the penguins I wasn't going
to edit another BITS book... or words to that effect. Does that make
it my fault?
BTW The super-dense frying pan is almost as surreal...
Not to mention the Guatney (a poisonous vermin allegedly) which
didn't make the cut.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 16:42:34 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Best rules system
On 03/15/00 at 01:55 PM, Anthony Jackson said:
>David P. Summers writes:
>> >GT isn't quite a full edition IMHO... it lacks similarity in CGen and
>> >other areas.
>>
>> Sorry? GURPS has a quite complete character generation system,
>> it is just point based rather than random.
>Actually, it's true that 'GURPS Traveller' is not a complete edition of
>traveller. To be a complete edition of traveller, rules would have to be
>part of the GT product, and they aren't -- the basic rules are in a
>product (GURPS Basic) which is not a part of the GT line. If GURPS Lite
>had been included in GT you could call it a complete edition of
>traveller, however.
Folks, let's not fight another war over this, okay?
It seems that when we start talking about what the "best rules
system" we seem unable to stay civil and agree to disagree. I wish
that wasn't the case, because I'd love to see some strong, even
opinionated, reviews of the various versions, but we don't need
another flame war in here.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 08:46:12 +1000
From: "Scout Harris"
Subject: A differnt First contact (long)(was RE: Vilani history and mindset)
- --
On Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:27:35 Jason Postma wrote:
>A jump drive actiavted on a planet's surface automatically misjumps - it's
>well within ten diamaters of the planet's surface. You might have a
>thunderclap-sound when air rushes into the area left by the ship as well.
>By the time someone can build a working jump drive, I'm sure they have some
>theory as to why it would work as well. The first experimenters with jump
>drive probably already knew that gravity wells would have a profound effect
>on the drive and so tested their first drives far enough away to minimize
>the effect.
I did a first contact game with my players, although I (gasp!) deviated form canon by making the first contact scenario happen in 2002-2005 (i wasn't too exact, but I wanted to use Tech everyone was familiar with).
Anyway, the players(a team of troubleshooters) were called out to a research facility which had suddenly and violently dissappeared. When they got there they found a huge concave hoe in the ground, and rubble everywhere.
Some research discovered that the research being performed hear was on a fusion reactor using 'Ponds and Fleishmanns (sp?)" cold fusion idea.
Hydrogen was being acceleratied and "smashed" into elementary particles in a particle accelerator. Then the basic particles produced were squeezed into a metalic lattice consisting not of Platinum, but of Lanthanium. The idea was to produce a highly efficient power source.
The first test of this new type of powerplant produced the results the players observed. The team was starting to investigate which group or organisation would be responsible for sabotage when one of them piped up with "Hang on... did you say Lanthanium?"
They then did some more research and suggested to the government that maybe this "powerplant" should be tested in orbit.
Whereupon it 'vanished'. Only to 'reappear' a week later.
'Oh boy" they cried... we have invented 'TIME TRAVEL'.
They knew very well ehat they had.... but my group love to be odd....
A year later the first mission Jumped to Alpha Centauri, In 'Mir' with a jump drive strapped on
(And some other equipment.)
Colonies were springing up by 2009.
Banard's star was reached in 2010..(they actually built a ship for this one).. and they met the Tech 11 Vilani in their tech 8 Starships....
I was not able to finish that adventure, but I was hoping to be able to pit M1 Abrahms againts Grav Tanks (I was using TNE and had a copy of Twilight 2000...), but never got to take the campaing futher.
One thing they worked out real quick... when the Vilani asked them where they were from, they didn't tell them.
Scout Harris
Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 16:50:19 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Parahumans and Solomani
On 03/15/00 at 03:51 PM, Stormhound said:
>Bruce Johnson wrote:
>> In Earthly terms, this is like trying to reconstruct your keyboard from
>> a loose key with the letter 'B', the upper right hand corner of a
>> membrane keypad from a microwave labelled in arabic, and a Chinese
>> television remote with all the lettering worn off.
>>
>> Got it?
>>
>> Now try to figure out human control systems in a recovered 67 Corvette.
>>
>> THAT'S what dealing with Ancient Devices is like.
> In other words, you're saying it's roughly equivalent to trying to
>decipher the instruction manual for the new VCR?
By Jove! I think he's got it!
BTW, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Grandfather *didn't* drop his
progeny, a few proto-humans, vargr and normal Droyne, onto a world
and let them develop without his interference/guidance. It's
possible that many didn't survive, or develop the super intellegence
and psionic talents, and were ignored...or developed into current
Chirpper/Doyne populations. Of course, we don't *know*, so each of
us can play it as we want...and that's a good thing.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:55:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: Best rules system
eris@pcola.gulf.net writes:
> Folks, let's not fight another war over this, okay?
>
> It seems that when we start talking about what the "best rules
> system" we seem unable to stay civil and agree to disagree. I wish
> that wasn't the case, because I'd love to see some strong, even
> opinionated, reviews of the various versions, but we don't need
> another flame war in here.
How was that a flame? It seemed like a perfectly well-reasoned nitpick to me. Not that such nitpicks are particular necessary, of course ;)
However, as questions of 'best' tend to be matters of taste, I think you're
doomed to flame wars on the topic.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:48:23 +0000
From: Paul Campbell
Subject: Re: Jump drive activation inside a gravitational field
On Wed, 15 Mar 2000, Glenn Goffin wrote:
> Paul Campbell wrote:
> >
> >By the way, what actually happens when you activate a jump
> >drive on the surface of a planet? I can't remember reading
> >anywhere what happens in this case.
>
> Ah, we have another frequently-discussed topic for the recently
> announced de-lurkers. Gentlemen, short opposing position papers
> on this subject, please!
Aw! H**l, duck!
- --
Paul Campbell
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 17:00:48 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLERWENT DOWN)
On 03/16/00 at 08:23 AM, "Scout Harris" said:
>>>Still clear. When are you going to get to the confusing parts? ;-p
>>In revenge, I shall explain the infield fly rule to them.
>And we will explain the postition of the "Silly Mid Off".
>Or how to "bowl a maiden over".....
>Or what a "Googly" is.... ;)
Take your best shot! ;-p I'd love to know what a "googly" is, as well as how to "bowl a maiden over."
In returen we'll tell you what a "high can of corn" is, when there are "ducks on the pond", what an "ice-cream cone" is, why a "frozen rope" is often no better than a "seeing eye grounder", and how to "turn on a slider" and "jack a tater" out of the yard. ;->
Eris, "Who's on First?"
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 23:56:28 +1100
From: "AB"
Subject: Re: Weather Control
The following is based on what I know about Chaos theory:
Weather is a chaotic system.
Chaotic systems have 'a sensitive dependence on initial starting
conditions.'
When you remove the control element I suspect this would be equivalent to a
new start state for the chaos system.
I imagine the result would be that the climate would change and develop new
'islands of stability' after a while.
ie: Things would get weird for a bit then things would settle down into a
new climatic pattern that might or might not be similar to the old pre
weather control system, but would not likely be exactly the same.
- -AB
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 01:22:04 -0500
From: "Chauncey Smith"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
- -----Original Message-----
From: Chris Seamans
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
>From: Rupert Boleyn
>
>Well, published adventures are not always in keeping with the game's focus.
>Compare AD&D's Tomb of Horrors (light on monsters, extremely heavy on
>thinking) with the general aesthetic of AD&D (heavier on monsters).
>
>This is one of the big reasons I tend not to purchase published adventures.
>
D&D is as story involved or as moster bashing as you want to make it. We as
player seem to have forgoten that alot of the idea of what the game is and
how it is played is really up to the ppl that play it and the Gme that give
it the look and feel. Tomb of Horrors is one way to play D&D and then
they're others.
>> To make matters worse as far as I could tell from the rules that's
>> how they expected the "Storyteller" to write their own adventures
>> (oops - stories). The very name "Storyteller" pretty much sums it up
>> for me.
>
>I never really got that impression from White Wolf's materials, except in
>the choice of an "official" name for the referee. Using "Storyteller"
>instead of referee or GM just seemed like a gloss that they used to set
>themselves apart from other RPGs.
>
The point of the WW system IMHO is that it's used to make the role playing
more inportant then what dice you roll. The WW system is surpose to
disappear behind the story.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:18:07 -0900
From: Peter Newman
Subject: Re: Droyne
"Carlos Alos-Ferrer" wrote
> > > Peter Newman wrote:
> Peter wrote:
> > Its possible that Grandfather had a back door into all his
> > Children's technology, robots, and human servants. This could
> > provide him victory even if his opponents were genetically
> > equal to him. This might explain why the technology at each Ancient site
> > is different - the Grandchild in charge of that world was
> > frantically rewriting his tech base in a futile attempt
> > to remove Grandfathers back door.
> If it really was futile, why did the Final War took so long?
> I think it is stated somewhere that it took thousands of years.
Grandfather is immortal so what is his hurry?
I am assuming that grandfather had a little list of targets
and he took them one at a time in order. This means that
"thousands of years" (about 2,000 IIRC) works out to less
than 5 years for taking out each Grandchild. That's _about_
1 year for a robot crewed Jump 6 Portal ship to get from
Grandfathers home near Regina to the Grandchild's home and spy
on him. _About_ one year to report back. _About_ a third year
for Grandfather to (in his spare time) order & provision the
attack fleet. _About_ a fourth year for it to reach and
destroy its target. _About_ a fifth year for it to report
back its success. Then Grandfather moves on to the next
name on his list. 5 years x 400 + targets = 2,000 years.
Presumably some Grandchildren killed each other but
presumably Grandfather took some time off from the war to
do more important things, like planning his pocket universe,
so it all balances out to about 2,000 years.
Grandfather arguably had a big TL advantage over his
Grandchildren. They may have been "only" TL 25-30 while
he was TL 35. This means that his attacks probably usually
worked and canon states that there is no evidence that Final
War era weaponry ever missed its targets [On the other hand
the anti Chirper/Droyne genetic weapon used in the Zhodani
system was canonically miss delivered so possibly the above canon
is wrong.]
> > Since Grandfather was older than his Grandchildren
> > and new Psionic powers can be developed
> > Without the Immortality Psi talent the
> > children would, arguably still be vulnerable to the
> > Droyne suicide urge while Grandfather was immune to it -
> > then the Last War just becomes an effort by Grandfather to
> > key that urge.
>
> ...and its onset could be provoked by the fact that some of them (the
> first 20?) were already reaching a dangerous level...
Yes.
> > If I were having kids I would want to have some sort of
> > biochemical trait put into their genes so I could easily
> > kill them when they started to get uppity.
> My, Peter, ain't you paternal.... ;->
My hypothetical future children already have biochemical
traits that make them easy to kill - it's called poison.
Given TL 30 medicine Grandfather needs a hardwired solution.
"Trust is good, control is better."
> > All the physical destruction of the Last
> > War would then have been caused by Grandchildren fighting
> > amongst themselves, which is canon, or by Grandfathers
> > machines wearing down their defenses so he could attack
> > with his (possibly short range) "You will kill yourself"
> > weapon.
>
> ...which maybe did not work with the first 20. Are there any canonc
> references to differences between the first 20 and the next 400?
Not that I recall.
> How
> much time did it go by between the first generation and the second?
They may have overlapped, Grandfathers firstborn child may
have fathered Grandfathers first Grandchildren before Grandfather
had all 20 kids of his own.
>
> > > OTOH, he probably was bored enough to want some variance. An
> > > alternative is that he tried to "uplift" Droyne to his level, ending
> > > somewhere in the middle.
>
> > Another possibility of course was that the Grandchildren's
> > inferiority to him may have been due to Grandfathers use of
> > the old fashioned methods of reproduction and Grandfathers
> > superior mutant genes being partially swamped by inferior
> > Droyne genes.
>
> He he he. Is there a Grandmother in Grandfather's pocket universe?
>
Not canonically, and given Droyne reproduction it would be
harder than that anyway.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 15:34:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: Sworld world names?
From: "Jesse LaBranche"
>Maybe when everyone left Middle Earth on the Elven ships, they
>travelled to the Sword Worlds ;-)
Well, we know that the Elves ended up very close to the Sword
Worlds.
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 19:02:47 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: Re: Sworld world names?
Here's what I know :)
Narsil, Anduril, Orcrist, Beater, Biter, Sting - From Tolkien
mjolnir - Thor's hammer
Excalibur - The sword the lady of the lake gave to Arthur...
Tizon - El Cid's sword???
I know one of them is Sigurd's (From Germanic Folklore) sword Just not
sure....
Thanks
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 23:16:48 -0000
From: "Matthew Bond"
Subject: Re: Parahumans and Solomani
- -----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Johnson
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: 15 March 2000 17:41
Subject: Re: Parahumans and Solomani
>Matthew Bond wrote:
>
>> Well, I'd be surly if the local plant life was deadly to humans without
>> major reprocessing...
>
>Not really. There are a number of staple foodstuffs in use by cultures
>here that require shugilli-like processing.
>
>The staple starch of a number of Polynesian island groups came from a
>species of cycad that required some extensive processing before it was
>made non-poisonous, (and at lower levels it's carcinogenic, as well)
>
>There's a root vegetable that is the staple starch in the Amazon basin
>that needs to have the cyanide processed out of it.
>
>Taro, another staple of the Pacific, is poisonous as well before
>treatment, it's full of calcium oxalate.
>
>--
>Bruce Johnson
I know about these, and I imagine there were some surly people until the
trick was learned, especially among the food tasters...
But they have access to other sources of nutrition, eg meat, fish, nuts,
berries etc. These items only became staples *after* the trick was
discovered [if a 'staple' is deadly, it ain't no staple ], because the
investment in processing is more than repaid by the higher nutritional value
of the processed food compared to other sources. But there *are* other
sources available.
On Vland, almost everything requires some form of processing. As V&V says
"Our ancestors in the wild nearly starved. Much of the local plants and
animals cause unpleasant or even fatal allergy attacks if consumed without
processing" [V&V p16]
And anyway, I was having a little dig at John's atrocious spelling, after he
wrote surly instead of surely...
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 00:11:28 -0000
From: "Matthew Bond"
Subject: Re: Droyne
> Peter Newman wrote:
>Since Grandfather was older than his children and Grandchildren
>and canon [Zhodani Alien Module] states that new Psionic
>powers can be developed during character generation it
>is likely that Grandfather had better psionic powers than
>any of the Children and Grandchildren. Note that the
>description of Grandfather in Adv. 12 states, that he was
>the only one to master the level 15 Awareness psi talent
>of immortality through total cell regeneration. It does
>not, IIRC, say that the Children & Grandchildren also had
>this talent. Without the Immortality Psi talent the
"So a breeding program produced 20 children, and each of them had about 20
children of their own, creating a simple core of highly intelligent,
*immortal* beings." [AM5:Droyne p45, emphasis mine]
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 00:16:27 -0000
From: "Matthew Bond"
Subject: Re: Parahumans and Solomani
- -----Original Message-----
From: Chris Seamans
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: 15 March 2000 22:13
Subject: Re: Parahumans and Solomani
>From: Stormhound
>
>
>> > THAT'S what dealing with Ancient Devices is like.
>>
>> In other words, you're saying it's roughly equivalent to trying to
>> decipher the instruction manual for the new VCR?
>
>Probably even worse, like trying to figure out how to play Go from a one
>page instruction manual poorly translated into English.
The actual *rules* of Go would barely fill the page. It's the diagrams that
take up the space...
Matt
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2091
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, March 15 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2092
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
Re: Dulinors folly and Strephons misery and Norris triumph
Re: and here's what it looks like...-sorry,that's just the same again
Re: yusin "your" insted ow "you are"
Re: Re Rules vs Setting
Re: The sad saga of the T4 starship rules.
Re: NEW and Old
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: Ancients (was re: Parahumans and Solomani)
Re: Droyne
TL
Galanglic character set
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
Re: Back in the saddle
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
Re: MONTANA-class Battleship (T4/FF&S2) (longish)
Re: MONTANA-class Battleship (T4/FF&S2) (longish)
Re: Sworld world names?
Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
Re: MONTANA-class Battleship (T4/FF&S2) (longish)
Re: ACQ
Re: The sad saga of the T4 starship rules.
Re: Sworld world names?
RE: Famille Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:13:30 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)
On 15 Mar 00, at 11:14, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> At 06:20 PM 3/15/2000 +0000, you wrote:
> >At 8:06 -0500 15/3/00, Phil Kitching
> >wrote:
> >>Unless England was in and is now out, when it is usually called "lunch".
> >>
> >>I hope this clarifies the finer points.
> >
> >Hmm. Modelling cricket with ACQ anyone?
>
> Sadly, you could probably do it.
>
> I said *you*, I'm taking enough heat for the penguins.
Don't feel too bad, Doug. You could probably do it with MT or TNE as
well.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:13:30 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Dulinors folly and Strephons misery and Norris triumph
On 15 Mar 00, at 10:56, Glenn Goffin wrote:
> You probably have a dihydrogen monoxide problem too. I might
> urge you to get help before it's too late, but you know what?
> it's already too late. Now I try to live in my addictions one
> meal at a time.
Yep that Hydro-oxygenic acid (or is it Hydrogen Hydroxide?) is a
problem alright.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:13:29 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: and here's what it looks like...-sorry,that's just the same again
On 15 Mar 00, at 8:21, john hamilton wrote:
> Well,just from the ones I own:
> Shadowrun:from history over critters to
> equipment,it's basicly self-containing.
But not for all types of magic, etc.
> Cyberpunk 2020:even more so
But no rules for even how much modifying a vehicle would cost, let
alone what's reasonable. And some of the more game-changing armour (and
full body replacement) tech is in the Chrome books.
> Star wars RPG
> DC heroes
> Call of Cthulhu
> Now something controversial:
> TRAVELLER TNE!!!!
Except that most of the setting stuff is in _Path of Tears_, the
equipment list is missing a good chunk of the more important high-tech
tools (you need the _Reformation Coalition Equipment Guide_), and to
design anything new (a part of Traveller since CT with its ship design
rules) you need either _Brilliant Lances_ or _Fire, Fusion and Steel_.
Yep. Very complete the one book.
> Yes,for us,it had everything needed.You could play
> with it,even if you had only slight ideas of the 3I's
> history;but it was destroyed anyway!
>
> Yes,every one of the examples has COUNTLESS
> supplements,but you can play without them.
> DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME WITH T4!
Funny. A friend of mine has. Aside from lack of starship constuction
it's (AFAIK) as complete as CT.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:13:29 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: yusin "your" insted ow "you are"
On 15 Mar 00, at 8:07, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> At 04:02 AM 3/15/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>
> >You make a short joke,and people loose their
> >mind.Fantaaastic.Great.Realy.Marvelous.
> >But it's my fault.I didn't realize that Traveller
> >should be discussed with religious awe.
>
> John, we can't tell your "jokes" from your usual bad
> spelling and formatting.
>
> Relgious awe? I really wonder where you are getting this stuff, or if you
> are somehow getting the TML from an alternate dimension.
Actually I think he's just getting his feed a few years late. Sounds
like an apt description of some during the Great Canon Wars of a few
years back. (Anyone for a round or three of why CT/MT/TNE/T4 is the
greatest/sucks near-C rocks?)
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:13:29 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Re Rules vs Setting
On 15 Mar 00, at 8:00, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> A lot of us "older" players remember the D&D module "Barrier Peaks in
> which the dungeon was a crashed starship.
Ah yes, and the "view screen" guns. Pissed me right off, they did.
[snip lots]
> You may scoff, but us "older" players have seen the cycles of game theory
> and design come and go in the hobby for a few decades now.
Very much so. Rules heavy, rules light, simulation, war game based,
diceless, one die only, bunches o' dice - it goes in phases.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:13:29 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: The sad saga of the T4 starship rules.
On 15 Mar 00, at 13:36, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
> On 03/15/00 at 12:27 PM, Bruce Johnson
> said:
>
> >SD Mooney wrote:
>
> >> Funny, ISTR that T4 has a starship construction system in the rules
> >> (albeit with need of errata) and TNE doesn't. Kind of made TNE in need
> >> of Brilliant Lances or FFS1.
>
> >Actually, T4 had some Errata in need of a starship design system, and TNE
> >(ISTR) had some rules about converting MT ships.
>
> >The T4 system was supposed to be The Newbies to The Gearheads absolutely
> >favorite Ship Design System of All Time.
>
>
>
> GURPS picked up on the idea with it's Starship Modules in GT and Space
> 3rd. In my mind, I see them as a second edition of QSDS/SDS...that's just
> in *my* mind so don't jump on me.
But Space 3rd doesn't have life support or powerplant slices in the
modules, and GT does. This has pretty much guaranteed that I won't be
changing from TNE to GT for such fun things as ship design.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:13:30 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: NEW and Old
On 15 Mar 00, at 19:19, Ingo Heinscher wrote:
> At 14:46 14.03.00 -0800, Troy Bradley wrote:
> [snip]
> > It
> >appears that some people think this list is their
> >personal fiefdom...THAT'S interesting!
>
> I'm relatively new here, too. I do not aggree with your feelings. Not at
> all.
I thought it was the AAB, and the search AIs had all got Virus.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:13:30 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
On 15 Mar 00, at 8:03, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> At 12:52 AM 3/16/2000 +1300, you wrote:
>
> >> It would work on you too.. do you know what we sing during the seventh
> >> inning stretch?
> >
> >Tie Me Kangaroo Down, Sport?
>
> "Take Me Out To The Ball Game" Which has the following line..
>
> **WARNING! ANY AUSSIES/NEW ZEALANDERS! SWALLOW COFFEE NOW!**
>
> "For it's root, root, root for the home team.
> if they don't win it's a shame."
With synchronised strip dancing? I always wondered what the cheerleadrs
were for (or is that American Football?)
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:13:30 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Ancients (was re: Parahumans and Solomani)
On 15 Mar 00, at 11:07, Smith, Walter wrote:
> john hamilton wrote:
> >Don't forget that the Vilani were used to the idea of
> >primitive species related to advanced-through their
> >own encounters with minor human races!
>
> Eventually, yes...but these minor human races, with a very
> few exceptions, were obviously human. It's not, IMO, as obvious
> that Chirpers are the same species as Droyne - some humans have
> even resisted the idea that Chirpers are fully intelligent.
And it's still (late 3I) not commonly known that they are related to
Droyne, let alone that they are Droyne "frozen" in their immature
state.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 19:25:17 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Droyne
From: Matthew Bond
> "So a breeding program produced 20 children, and each of them
> had about 20 children of their own, creating a simple core of highly
> intelligent, *immortal* beings." [AM5:Droyne p45, emphasis mine]
Personally, I think that it should be read as "immoral" beings.
I think that the Sayat and Ditzie support my interpretation. :)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 00:41:48 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty"
Subject: TL
I've always taken TL to mean what is readily available in a large
city/settlement, and can be locally produced/maintained. There is no reason
why the king of a TL 2 world would not have a few ACRs among his retinue and
an air/raft for his own use, but he'll need to buy new ones quite often as
the maintenance base just doesn't exist.
The issue of military equipment by TL (and the availability of higher tech
level imports) is covered in GT Star Mercs, BTW.
MJD
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 17:25:33 -0700
From: Jason Postma
Subject: Galanglic character set
Any one out there know where I can get a windows font set for the galanglic
character set (that stuff that's on all of Jesse's art)? I went around the
ring without finding any.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:29:51 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
On 15 Mar 00, at 1:22, Chauncey Smith wrote:
> The point of the WW system IMHO is that it's used to make the role playing
> more inportant then what dice you roll. The WW system is surpose to
> disappear behind the story.
Well in that case they made a big mess, IMO. The system doesn't
disappear behind the story, gives different results from what the game
thinks you should get, and has some strange skill level/botch/critical
interactions. Yech.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:19:36 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
In mail you write:
>> But given the nature of the Solomani Party and SolSec, I don't think
>> they really want that many telepaths running around. You might even find an
>> organization like Babylon 5's "Psi Corps" regualting and registering
>> psionic talents.
>
> IMTU Psionics in the Solomani Sphere is a state secret because
> of widespread popular distrust of Psionics dating back to
> the Psionics Suppressions. I just don't see SolSec letting
> anyone but SolSec have Psionics.
Check out Bujold's "Ethan of Athos" to see what happens when a SolSec
like organization attempts to make use of telepaths to question
dissidents.
Basicly, unless you can manage to get telepaths that are as "twisted"
as the SolSec types at the interrogation (and "twisted" in much the
same way) they are going to compare the minds of the SolSec higher ups
and the dissidents and quickly figure out which side they can stomach.
It may be a long time before they can do anything about it, but sooner
or later they'll get a chance to get away. And then your *real*
troubles start.
And yes, I'm asuming that the higher ups in *any* organization such as
SolSec are *far* from being idealists.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:29:52 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Back in the saddle
In mail you write:
> On 03/14/00 at 10:44 AM, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:
>
>>Would you be interested in some speculation about what sort of conditions
>>on-world would *make* heavy metal extraction from seawater more
>>practical? Some of the possibilities would make for interesting
>>background and hazards.
>
> I would be, so please do tell!
Well, for starters, higher than normal concentrations would help. Heavy
metals tend to be a lot less soluble than lighter ones. So that ups the
ante considerably.
One possiblity is that the world doesn't yet have an oxygen atmosphere.
In the absence of oxygen, a lot of metal ions will stay in solution.
Add oxygen, and they precipitate out as oxides. The geoligical layers
laid down as photosythetic organisms started dumpin that toxin (oxygen
:-) into the atmosphere are noted for all the iron they contain, the
oxygen would dissolve in water, and the O ions reacted with the Fe (and
other) ions precipitating *huge* layers of iron oxides. The same may be
true for other metals.
If you take this option, just accept the atmosphere code given, but
note that the atmosphere has CO2 instead of oxygen (if it's a "tainted"
atmosphere, you're fine).
Main extraction method would likely be bubbling oxygen thru the water,
collecting the precipitated oxides, and then reducing the oxides to
metals with carbon or hydrogen. Take the water or CO2 resulting from
the reduction of the metals and break it down, and you've got the oxgen
back, as well as your reduction agent (hydrogen or carbon).
Another possibility is that due to a combo of, say, volcanic activity
(lots of sulfur oxides in the atmosphere) and bacteria (like the one
posted here the other day) the oceans are highly acidic (and the rains
are somewhat acidic). This means *lots* of erosion, and lots and lots
of dissolved metals in the waters.
You'd need different chemical (or possibly electrical) methods to
precipitate the dissolved metals. With some electrical method, you may
wind up with metal suitable for electrolytic refining. Otherwise, you
use a process similar to that described before.
A third possibility would be a world with highly *alkaline* oceans.
About like Liquid Plumber or the like!
Just about any metal oxide (and a lot of non-metal oxides!) is soluble
in such a solution. For example, I ruined a pyrex beaker by boiling a
strong alkali solution in it. It ate *holes* in the glass (effectively
*quartz*).
The problem here is that somehow you need an atmosphere with
essentially *zero* CO2, otherwise it'll react with the oceans to turn
the metal oxides into carbonate minerals.
I'm not sure how to get a world with lots of water, but almost no
carbon. It'd *definitely be a "cosmic fluke". And life is *really*
unlikely. So the atmosphere would likely be nitrogen, plus inert gases.
Extraction would likely involve adding an acid to neutralize the alkali
and cause the metals to precipitate. Then you purify the precipitates,
and reduce as before.
In the first case, the only real hazard is going to be the lack of
oxygen. In the acid or alkali cases there will be danger from the water
eating away at stuff.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:55:45 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?
In mail you write:
> Eris,
> and I've got a dictionary next to my computer that I use a lot.
> Problems is when I go to look up a word: one, I'm often so far
> off I can't *find* it in the dictionary; two, I get so
> interested in the definitions of the other words around the one
> I'm looking up it takes me 10 minutes to discover I can't find
> it...see, one.
Well, sounds like what you need is a "Bad Speller's Dictionary" (that's
what the one a friend had was titled). It's a pocket sized book and
doersn't *have* definitions. Just words listed by (mis)spelling, with
the correct spelling, and in the case of things like
"there/their/they're" a *short* example to let you pick the
spelling you need:
There: a place
Their: belonging to them
They're: They are
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 15:05:00 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: MONTANA-class Battleship (T4/FF&S2) (longish)
In mail you write:
> Black ICE wrote:
>>
>> As I continue to work on the AuricTech Shipyards Web site upgrade, I
>> find that I just _have_ to post a design or two to the TML (to tide you
>> [and me!] over until things are ready).
>>
>> In that spirit, here's the MONTANA-class battleship, designed for
>> service in the M:1100 setting (i.e., TL-15):
>>
>> **begin transmission**
>>
>> AuricTech Shipyards MONTANA-class Battleship
>>
>> Tons: 500,000 std (SL Medium Rounded Cylinder Hypersonic)
>
> Visualizing a half a megaton of something comming in through the
> atmosphere hypersonic.....
>
> "Moommmmyyyyyyy!"
Mixed feelings: Having "shot down" said 1/2 megaton of ship *while* it
was moving hypersonic in atmosphere.[1]
[1] Why are your feelings mixed? Because that big SOB is gonna make a
*big* hole wherever it lands!
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 15:07:19 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: MONTANA-class Battleship (T4/FF&S2) (longish)
In mail you write:
> Bruce Johnson wrote:
>>
>> Black ICE wrote:
>> >
> <>
>> >
>> > AuricTech Shipyards MONTANA-class Battleship
>> >
>> > Tons: 500,000 std (SL Medium Rounded Cylinder Hypersonic)
>>
>> Visualizing a half a megaton of something comming in through the
>> atmosphere hypersonic.....
>>
>> "Moommmmyyyyyyy!"
>
> Actually, it's _far_ worse than that. The actual loaded mass of a
> MONTANA-class battleship is nearly 7.6 million metric tons. The
> _volume_ is 500,000 dtons.
>
> Gives a whole new slant on "Big Sky" (the state of Montana's nickname),
> doesn't it? ;-)
And if it impacts at a measly 1 km/sec, it'll be equivalent to a 905
kiloton bomb. At a "more reasonable" 11 km/sec (Earth escape velocity)
it'll be equivalent to a 109 megaton bomb.
Hell! If it was operating in atmosphere on *my* planet,I'd be *afraid*
to shoot at it. What if I knocked out the drive?
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 16:38:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Ken St-Cyr
Subject: Re: Sworld world names?
On Tue, 14 Mar 2000 Qstor@aol.com wrote:
> I know this has been a much asked question on the TML ..so please forgive my
> "newbieness"but....aside from weapons from JRR Tolkien, Thor and King Arthur
> (I know there are 2 worlds named from Arthurian legend)...what are the other
> Sword World's named after?? Just curious...:)
I'm pretty much a newbie on this list too, and since I haven't found
that file someone mentioned existed, here's some additions to the
list:
Hrunting - Beowulf's sword
Colada - another of El Cid's
Joyeuse - sword of Charlemagne
Gungnir - Odin's spear
Tyrfing - a cursed Dwarven sword from Norse myth
Sacnoth - from a Lord Dunsany story
Caliburn - alternate spelling for Excalibur
Dyrnwyn - from Lloyd Alexander stories
Durendal - sword of Roland
Hofud - Heimdall's sword
- - Ken
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
kenstcyr@cs.pdx.edu "That machine has got to be destroyed"
*bleat* (From Beyond)
World of the Carnelian Coast: http://www.cs.pdx.edu/~kenstcyr/coast.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 16:56:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
Leonard Erickson writes:
> Basicly, unless you can manage to get telepaths that are as "twisted"
> as the SolSec types at the interrogation (and "twisted" in much the
> same way) they are going to compare the minds of the SolSec higher ups
> and the dissidents and quickly figure out which side they can stomach.
And you think this will be difficult? Yes, they _will_ have telepaths who
are 'twisted' in exacly that way.
> And yes, I'm asuming that the higher ups in *any* organization such as
> SolSec are *far* from being idealists.
Odds are the lower-downs aren't either. SolSec is the kind of organization
which is fundamentally attractive to thugs and other antisocial personalities.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 16:59:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: MONTANA-class Battleship (T4/FF&S2) (longish)
Leonard Erickson writes:
> And if it impacts at a measly 1 km/sec, it'll be equivalent to a 905
> kiloton bomb. At a "more reasonable" 11 km/sec (Earth escape velocity)
> it'll be equivalent to a 109 megaton bomb.
>
> Hell! If it was operating in atmosphere on *my* planet,I'd be *afraid*
> to shoot at it. What if I knocked out the drive?
What about it? Having it crash and blow up is way less destructive on average
than having it go around shooting things it wants to kill. Besides, if you
shoot at it when its overhead, what's there to worry about? By the time
it hits the ground it won't be any danger to _me_.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 16:50:06 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: ACQ
In mail you write:
>> >While this is true, I would like to note that the original _Champions_
>> >rules from Hero Games, published some twenty years ago,
>>
>> But that's a dead game. :P
>
> Not dead in my little universe :) Some of us are awaiting the 5th Edition
> rules. Hmmm..... I see some sort of Hiver plot here. Some of this list is
> waiting for T5, while some of us are waiting for 5th Edition Hero. Is there
> something significant about the 5th edtion of an RPG?
I dunno. Does my having a 5th ed copy of Tunnels & Trolls meam
anything? :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 19:15:25 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: The sad saga of the T4 starship rules.
On 03/16/00 at 01:13 PM, "Rupert Boleyn" said:
>> GURPS picked up on the idea with it's Starship Modules in GT and Space
>> 3rd. In my mind, I see them as a second edition of QSDS/SDS...that's just
>> in *my* mind so don't jump on me.
>But Space 3rd doesn't have life support or powerplant slices in the
>modules, and GT does. This has pretty much guaranteed that I won't be
>changing from TNE to GT for such fun things as ship design.
You don't like having the life support and powerplant slices separated out? I thought that was an advance over GT's modules. I'd *still* like to see FFS produced modules, liking it better, but...
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 20:20:24 EST
From: KenRoney@aol.com
Subject: Re: Sworld world names?
A long while back I was running a campaign that took place primarily on the
Sword World border and I wanted to flesh out the Sword Worlders a little more
than the sketchy description that they got in the old Journal and support
material. As i looked at the map, two facts struck me:
1) The worlds were mostly all named for weapons (sort of goes without
saying); and
2) Weapons from historical mythology and fantasy literature seem equally
prevelant.
As a referee, I felt that I had to decide WHY this was so, but do so in a way
that didn't violate canon. Here is my rationale. The Sword Worlders
departed from the vicinity of Terra during the Long Night using a very large
asteroidal sleeper/generation ship, with the explicit goal of establishing a
colony far removed from the wreckage of the Ramshackle Empire. The settlers
did the best that they could to bring the best of Terran art, science,
literature, and technology with them. Somewhere along the line during their
epic voyage, their data banks were damaged, leaving a miniscule, incomplete,
garbled mix of history, religion, and literature (only the Tolkein and
folklore sections surviving) for the coming generations, but retaining the
science and technology data complete. After several generations on Gram, the
then bickering colonists cobbled together what they could of the "heritage"
of Earth that remained, and then ventured back into space with a pretty
warped idea of what Terran history was. Essentially, many of them had the
impression that Tolkein's tales were either real, or that they were some sort
of book of religious revelation, ala the Bible or Koran. Not only did it
explain the names in a way that satisfied my players, but it also allowed me
to create a nifty Swordic religion, the Tolkeinists.
Ken
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 20:40:47 -0500
From: "R.D. Elliott"
Subject: RE: Famille Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
Jesse, Mike, Kelly, Bruce; thanks. It's good to be back :)...
>Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 19:08:56 +1100
>From: "Katharine Whitchurch"
>Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
>
>> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 23:36:23 -0500
>> From: "R.D. Elliott"
>> Subject: Famille Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
>>
>
>I am in awe of this man.
>
I am not worthy :). Seriously, though, I'm pretty pleased with
this one; got the idea around the time I bailed from the list due to
overwhelming pressure at work, and it's been stewing on the back burner
ever since... I just love the idea of a bunch of upper class twits
climbing into J's and careening all over the place, causing traffic chaos,
burning up spectacularly in poorly executed aerobrakes, smacking into
planets, stations, and each other, and the winner being carted out of his
ship on a stretcher, in a straitjacket, feebly trying to bite the nurses,
suffering from a combined G-, ProctoProd and Combat Drug overdose.
Or, if you wanted to use it on your players, have the most
life-threatening non-combat-oriented session you've ever run; I figure that
riding in a J would probably be pretty dangerous to anyone not in tip-top
shape, not to mention the risks from atmosphere surfing, clipping a gate on
a slalom course, running out of fuel at a velocity and trajectory that'd
take the patrol cruiser a month to catch you (note the
deliberately-designed 1-week-only food supply and the absence of sanitary
facilities) that kind of thing...
>> Excerpted from Imperial Yachting Digest, IY 012-032
>
>>The drives are powered by an enormous Fusion+
>> plant; a shade over 1900 megawatts, to be precise
>
>Unfortunatly, I find Fusion Plus to be an abomination in the sight of God
>and Man, and we therefore need to find a way to shoe-horn enough power into
>this thing to be able to push it at 16-19 gees ... we need to scrape up 2000
>megawatts, in short. Our other limit is that the J class has 138 G-hours,
>which means roughly 8 hours at something close to full burn.
>
Well, actually, being the unrepentant Milieu 0 fan that I am, I am
not allergic to Fusion+. I deliberately designed it at TL-12, to fit the
feel of a young, enthusiastic, not-too-bright, vulgar and nouveau-riche
Third Imperium...
[snip]
>Ladies and Gentlemen, I proudly present to you the first cut of the Famile
>Spofulam entry in the THUDDD competition for a TL15 Commerce Raider ... the
>militarised J class Racing Yacht.
>
However, in light of the above, I might just rethink my
Milieucentrism; that is a truly and utterly bent, bent, bent idea :). I
was just running on the concept of spacecraft equivalent of that 20-G grav
bike I did a while back; the thought of arming it is truly twisted...
[snip]
>Add 1t Beer Fridge, 1t Stereo System and 1t Lighting System.
>
>Someone else can do the stats for your favorite space combat system.
I like. Kind of has a black sheep of the Noble House setting up as
a priate kind of vibe to it...
By the way, Ian, if you do manage to recover any of your designs,
I'd like to see them; the last one I saw was (I think) the 4mj Plasma
Tube...
>Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:12:45 -0800 (PST)
>From: Glenn Goffin
>Subject: re: Famille Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
>
>>From: "R.D. Elliott"
>>Subject: Famille Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
>>
>>Excerpted from Imperial Yachting Digest, IY 012-032
>
>That was good. I'll be thinking about it when I'm racing in San
>Francisco Bay on Sunday.
Sailing on the Bay? Cool; I've heard it's absolutely wonderful for
sailing, with the possible exception of the Great Whites. What are you
racing?
Roderick Darroch Elliott
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2092
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Traveller-digest Thursday, March 16 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2093
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: ACQ
Re: Sworld world names?
Re: Sworld world names?
Re: Droyne
Re: Sworld world names?
Re: Sworld world names?
H & C
Re: Drives
Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
Famille Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
Re: A differnt First contact (long)(was RE: Vilani history and mindset)
Re: ACQ
Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab
Re: The sad saga of the T4 starship rules.
Re: A differnt First contact (long)(was RE: Vilani history and mindset)
Re: NEW and Old
Re: Sworld world names?
Re: Alien Sport...
Re: Galanglic character set
Re: Droyne
Re: MONTANA-class Battleship (T4/FF&S2)
Re: Best rules system...
Re: Back in the saddle
Re: Colonial Tech Levels in the Solomani Rim
RE: Galanglic character set
Re: Galanglic character set
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 11:10:32 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley"
Subject: Re: ACQ
> From: Walt Smith
> Douglas Berry wrote:
> >I was being snarky, I've loved Champions since the first edition, and
> >it is one of the few games I still get to play.
>
> I'm a Champions fan since 1st ed as well. My last long-running RPG
> campaign was Justice, Inc. (the 1930's pulp adventure tales version
> of the Champions rules), and I'd love to make the time to run
> some four-color hero stuff again.
Another 1st ed fan here.
I only ran Justice, Inc once, and never got to play. I always wanted to,
though. At least some of my Traveller characters are basically reworked
pulp era characters: jungle explorer Scouts, and, of course, crewmen on
tramp freighters or riverboats (African Queen, anyone?). I'm thinking of
tracking down one of Dashiell Hammett's stories, Red Harvest, because it
sounds like a good, poachable story line for Traveller. (And that was the
OBTRAV in this OT post!)
As for Champions: it was the last game I played an FTF campaign in that I
didn't run myself. I would like to get back into it. I wonder if it could
be PBEMed? It's unavoidably low-level, so pacing it might be tricky. I
don't have time to think about it at the moment, though - I'm facing
deadline doom.
> >Douglas Berry, aka Steel Rainbow of the Bay Guardians
>
> Walt Smith, aka Sunturion of the LA Swordsmen, aka Whiteraven
> of the New York City Guardians.
Alan Bradley, aka Assault of Assault & Battery Security Services, aka Mr
Midnight of Vortex.
ps: I nearly forgot! Does ACQ handle vehicles, robots, and non-thrown
animals?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 20:59:31 -0500
From: "James Fleming"
Subject: Re: Sworld world names?
Ken St-Cyr wrote:
> I'm pretty much a newbie on this list too, and since I haven't found
> that file someone mentioned existed, here's some additions to the
> list:
>
> Hrunting - Beowulf's sword
> Colada - another of El Cid's
> Joyeuse - sword of Charlemagne
> Gungnir - Odin's spear
> Tyrfing - a cursed Dwarven sword from Norse myth
> Sacnoth - from a Lord Dunsany story
> Caliburn - alternate spelling for Excalibur
> Dyrnwyn - from Lloyd Alexander stories
> Durendal - sword of Roland
> Hofud - Heimdall's sword
I think I'm the guy you're talking about. I just spent close to an hour
trying to find the site where I downloaded the file from to no avail.
Maybe someone can help me here. The file I'm talking about is a map of the
Spinward Marches done in Adobe Acrobat, I downloaded it a week ago and
forgot to bookmark the page anyone recall the site as I'd rather direct Ken
to it as opposed to handing out someone else's work. Thanks in advance.
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 21:02:49 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: Re: Sworld world names?
Very Interesting I like the idea.....Maybe the phrase "Frodo lives" had some
great meaning to them :)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 21:09:20 -0500
From: "R.D. Elliott"
Subject: Re: Droyne
>
>Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 19:25:17 -0500
>From: "Chris Seamans"
>Subject: Re: Droyne
>
>From: Matthew Bond
>
>> "So a breeding program produced 20 children, and each of them
>> had about 20 children of their own, creating a simple core of highly
>> intelligent, *immortal* beings." [AM5:Droyne p45, emphasis mine]
>
>Personally, I think that it should be read as "immoral" beings.
>
>I think that the Sayat and Ditzie support my interpretation. :)
And what, may I ask, is "immoral" about using your extended family
as cheap labout in a business empire based on cutthroat business practices
and selling ludicrously dangerous and unsafe products designed by
drugged-out children to criminals, despots, Vargr and the filthy rich?
Roderick Darroch Elliott
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 21:03:12 -0500
From: "Sword-Worlder"
Subject: Re: Sworld world names?
My version goes, "Somebody thought it would be nifty to use the world names
from H. Beam Piper's book 'Space Viking', so they did a cut and paste with
the names, but never bothered to *read* the book." If you'd like to blame
it on some dude skimming the book during the cruise or someone at GDW whose
brain was in Xerox mode. To me it just sounds like the law suit that was
deserved, but never happened.
Geez, that sounds rather bitter, doesn't it? Sorry about that ;-)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Colin Michael, WebDev
www.downport.com
The Traveller Domain
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
> 1) The worlds were mostly all named for weapons (sort of goes without
> saying); and
> 2) Weapons from historical mythology and fantasy literature seem equally
> prevelant.
> As a referee, I felt that I had to decide WHY this was so, but do so in a
way
> that didn't violate canon. Here is my rationale. The Sword Worlders
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 21:10:07 EST
From: Qstor@aol.com
Subject: Re: Sworld world names?
I think the file some other members of the list mentioned is the TML
archives...I remeber when I was on the list back in '98 someone posted a list
of the Sword World Names...
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 21:13:41 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: H & C
In a message dated 00-03-14 12:48:07 EST, you write:
> > Hortalez et Cie actually existed. I thought it was a
> > neat-sounding name, and
> > I wanted to see if anyone else got the reference.
See? Another example for the "You Think we Make this Stuff Up?" category
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 21:13:42 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Drives
In a message dated 00-03-14 22:14:41 EST, you write:
<< What was the original intent? >>
The original intent was that all races developed jump drive without "arranged
accidents" or seeding or anything else.
Then Marc decided that the Aslan should have a rumor about a crashed Solomani
ship to make them more interesting. He mentioned this to DIgest Group, and
they published it as reality, rather than a rumor, so Marc decided to go
along.
agree that not all races /copied/ Jump tech, but do you think *any* got the
technology through imitation?>
Any of the Major Races? No, my personal feeling is that they all developed it
on their own. I am willing to give in on the point for the Vilani, Zhodani,
K'kree, Hivers, and Vargr (but not _all of them_). I am totally adamant about
the Terrans developing it on their own.
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 18:14:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
>From: Anthony Jackson
>And you think this will be difficult? Yes, they _will_ have
>telepaths who are 'twisted' in exacly that way.
Remember, twisted telepaths, like twisted personnel in general,
are made, not born. Well, some are born, I suppose, but you
can't count on it, so you should learn to make them.
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 18:24:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Famille Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
>Sailing on the Bay? Cool; I've heard it's absolutely wonderful
>for sailing, with the possible exception of the Great Whites.
>What are you racing?
I'm a crewman on a J-29 called the Team Tahoe. The owners are
from the Lake Tahoe area. This is my first year of racing.
Last summer was quite the trial by fire, as the winds on the Bay
are very strong and the swells were often 5+ feet. Winter
weather is a lot mellower, and we can concentrate on technique
rather than just survival. We're usually on the water for about
six hours in the middle of the day, racing for probably four or
five of those hours.
It is absolutely wonderful sailing, and, as a lawyer, I don't
worry about the Great Whites -- professional courtesy and all
that, you know.
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 02:30:42 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: A differnt First contact (long)(was RE: Vilani history and mindset)
On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 08:46:12 +1000, "Scout Harris"
wrote:
>Anyway, the players(a team of troubleshooters) were called out to a
> research facility which had suddenly and violently dissappeared.
> When they got there they found a huge concave hoe in the ground,
>and rubble everywhere.
>
>Some research discovered that the research being performed hear was
>on a fusion reactor using 'Ponds and Fleishmanns (sp?)" cold fusion
>idea.
>
So, the secret to cold fusion is cold cream and margarine? I must call
the lab and... Hey! Who are you? Ack......
- - Jeff Peterson (j_pete@bellsouth.net)
"Every citizen [should] be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and the
Romans, and must be that of every free state." -Thomas Jefferson
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
NOG #74 AirStar Nova 700
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 15:48:14 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: ACQ
On 15 Mar 00, at 16:50, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> In mail you write:
>
> >> >While this is true, I would like to note that the original _Champions_
> >> >rules from Hero Games, published some twenty years ago,
> >>
> >> But that's a dead game. :P
> >
> > Not dead in my little universe :) Some of us are awaiting the 5th
> > Edition rules. Hmmm..... I see some sort of Hiver plot here. Some of
> > this list is waiting for T5, while some of us are waiting for 5th
> > Edition Hero. Is there something significant about the 5th edtion of an
> > RPG?
>
> I dunno. Does my having a 5th ed copy of Tunnels & Trolls meam
> anything? :-)
I think I might have that one, too (either that or the 4th one).
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:54:58 +1100
From: "AB"
Subject: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab
Bags: Glisten/Aster (1739)
- -AB
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 15:54:33 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: The sad saga of the T4 starship rules.
On 15 Mar 00, at 19:15, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
> On 03/16/00 at 01:13 PM, "Rupert Boleyn" said:
>
> >> GURPS picked up on the idea with it's Starship Modules in GT and Space
> >> 3rd. In my mind, I see them as a second edition of QSDS/SDS...that's
> >> just in *my* mind so don't jump on me.
>
> >But Space 3rd doesn't have life support or powerplant slices in the
> >modules, and GT does. This has pretty much guaranteed that I won't be
> >changing from TNE to GT for such fun things as ship design.
>
> You don't like having the life support and powerplant slices separated
> out? I thought that was an advance over GT's modules. I'd *still* like to
> see FFS produced modules, liking it better, but...
Yes, I do. What I'd really like are the GT ones to be like the Space3
ones, but failing that I'd like them at least to be the same.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:18:55 +1000
From: "Scout Harris"
Subject: Re: A differnt First contact (long)(was RE: Vilani history and mindset)
- --
On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 02:30:42 Pete wrote:
>On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 08:46:12 +1000, "Scout Harris"
> wrote:
>
>>Anyway, the players(a team of troubleshooters) were called out to a
>> research facility which had suddenly and violently dissappeared.
>> When they got there they found a huge concave hoe in the ground,
>>and rubble everywhere.
>>
>>Some research discovered that the research being performed hear was
>>on a fusion reactor using 'Ponds and Fleishmanns (sp?)" cold fusion
>>idea.
>>
>So, the secret to cold fusion is cold cream and margarine? I must call
>the lab and... Hey! Who are you? Ack......
>
>
:P
(Maybe it was more than the spelling I got wrong... maybe I even got the names wrong! It has been a long time).
Scout Harris
Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 21:39:56 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: NEW and Old
Ingo Heinscher wrote:
>
> At 14:46 14.03.00 -0800, Troy Bradley wrote:
> [snip]
> > It
> >appears that some people think this list is their
> >personal fiefdom...THAT'S interesting!
>
> I'm relatively new here, too. I do not aggree with your feelings. Not at all.
Uhhhh...that would be me. When I generated myself as a TMLer, I managed
to roll a Soc of B, modified by career terms (Imperial Navy Flight
Officer, 4 terms [plus the term at the Naval Academy, final rank of Lt
Cdr) to Soc D. I was duly awarded a minor Web land grant on the TML,
and 5 voting shares of stock in AuricTech Shipyards.
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 21:49:12 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Sworld world names?
James Fleming wrote:
>
> Bruce Johnson wrote:
> > Arrgh somewhere in the archives there's a more detailed description, but
> > two of the worlds are named for Charlemagne's sword and the sword of
> > ____ his Hero, whom I cannot remember now.
>
> Was it Roland? IIRC that was the name of Charlemagne's hero. What were
> the Tolkien names?
Hmm. I don't _see_ any Sword World planets named "Thompson."
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:58:29 +1000
From: "The Roc"
Subject: Re: Alien Sport...
>
> VARGAR - Some of their sports may reflect their need to find creative and
> safe releases for their pack/prey drives; how about group hunts for large
> dangerous prey? On these hunts the group would hunt as a single team and
the
> prestige for bringing down even one of these beasts would go to the entire
> group; just being present on a "successful" hunt would bring each Vargar
the
> same respect as the one who actually felled the creature. There would even
> be many variations of the same game, from using traditional to modern
> weapons.
All of this appealed to me, but I could see the city dwellers doing a
"Killer" type game (wasn't that as SJ game?) in teams or pitting an
individual (a sporting hero) against a team of hunters who are hunting him?
I also see skirmish/paintball games in a similar vein. These woould be
easier than leaving people out of a sport because the whole city would have
to travel to out of the way places??
> Perhaps they have professional sports based on cub play: e.g. a variation
of
> "Tug-of-War" where the goal is to be the last Vargar holding the rope. (I
> won't go into their love of ball sports;)
Heheheheh...
>
> ASLAN - The one on one "Monkey-Hunt", where depending on the kitten's age
> determines what kind of monkey he fights. As the Aslan progresses through
> "monkeys" he gets to fashion his knife sheath from the pelt of most
> difficult "monkey-type" defeated. The terran gorilla being the highest
> officially recognized "sheath-rank" -though Terran Solomani being the most
> coveted! (No official tourneys for these "Solo-sheaths"; strictly though
> real-world duels only.) "Monkey-Hunt" masters may even have human
"sparing"
> partners for training their young kittens...Almost all sport duels resolve
> with out death; perhaps only when testing for rank is it allowed to
progress
> to the death. A human that lived through such a test may be forever
> protected as a valuable kitten trainer.
I'd also imagin simple endurance or spead races with some kind of skill- or
strength/dexterity-base involved (obstacle course?), and ball handling
games... race a ball through an obstacle course?
> (And of course there are all those exciting female Aslan base-8 math
> tourneys;)
Heheh, enough said... ;)
- -- The Roc
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:52:54 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Galanglic character set
From: Jason Postma
> Any one out there know where I can get a windows font set for the
> galanglic character set (that stuff that's on all of Jesse's art)? I went
> around the ring without finding any.
Hey Jason, it's not Galanglic it's Bilanidin which was originally intended
to be a Vilani "phonetic alphabet". In the time since it was released it has
become the "de facto" Traveller funky script.
I'm not sure if I currently have a copy on my harddrive, although I suspect
that several list members have a copy. If you have no luck by Friday drop me
an email and I'll see if I can find you a copy on my computer.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:56:31 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Droyne
From: R.D. Elliott
> >I think that the Sayat and Ditzie support my interpretation. :)
>
>
> And what, may I ask, is "immoral" about using your extended family
> as cheap labout in a business empire based on cutthroat business
> practices and selling ludicrously dangerous and unsafe products
> designed by drugged-out children to criminals, despots, Vargr and
> the filthy rich?
Oh, I wasn't referring to any of *that*, I was talking about the little
headband which Jesse has drawn her wearing.
So *tacky*! :)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:10:39 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: MONTANA-class Battleship (T4/FF&S2)
BTW, I trust that you all realize that the only reason we at AuricTech
designed the MONTANA-class battleship with a Streamlined Hypersonic
hullform was to allow gas giant refueling, IAW FF&S2, page 16.
However, we are willing to pay a MCr 1 prize to the first captain of a
MONTANA-class battleship to fly low-level hypersonic in the atmosphere
of a TL-13 or higher, Pop 9 or higher world with operational ground
defenses.
Further, our Marketing Department is delighted to see that, in only two
days since the design's introduction to the TML, it has already been the
subject of ten TML posts by TMLers other than myself.... :-D
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 14:19:07 +1000
From: "The Roc"
Subject: Re: Best rules system...
>
> Or is the just a statement of the view that if it doesn't use
> CT style rules it must not be "real Traveller"?
>
Well, isn't GT only a supplement to the GURPS rules set?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:49:05 -0500
From: Thom Jones-Low
Subject: Re: Back in the saddle
>
> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:13:10 +1100
> From: "Karen and Michael Hughes"
> Subject: Back in the saddle
>
> Well after a near ten year break - I'm GMing Traveller again.
>
> I knew buying all these books was a good idea at the time.
>
> Wish me luck.
>
> PS Plot involves Empress Wave - HELP I only have a one para reference from
> the web - anyone know more, reveal to me?
>
> PPS First session went well. Using old Trav Journal freaky disease outbreak
> scenario re-set on a heavy metal exraction plant (ie Oil Refinary platform
> for a RW like-example) on a storm wracked (ie can't get off until break in
> the weather) water world.
>
> I is evil.
>
> PS I don't want no Heavy Metal Extraction cannot be done from water crap OR
> any supporting statements to back it up. I am science dumb, not proud of it
> but too stubborn to change.
>
> Leonard this means you.
>
Well, I'm not Leonard, and Heavy Metal Extraction can be done from sea
water, it's just not efficient.
So, lets hand wave up a reason why it would be done....hurm.. [Actual,
I've spent all day thinking of this instead of working, bad Thom].
If all of the Land mass is either occupied by the locals (hence
unavailable for mining) and/or all land mining is controlled through
Tailings Corporation (a government owned corporation), and now that the
local branch of Sternmetal Horizons LIC (the Megacorp) wants to mine
there, the locals are having too much fun thumbing their noses at the
Imperial corporations.
So Sternmetal builds the Floating "Sea water extraction" platform. More
likely they built it over a sea bottom vent, where the hot core of the
planet is forcing heavy metal laced magma through vents in the ocean
floor. Drop a pipe around the vent and pump the mess to the surface to
be processed.
And since there is a weird environment around the sea vents, It would
explain the source of the disease. Traveller Digest #13 has Weipu in the
Solomani Rim sector where the planet is dominated by metal eating
bacteria which first eat the colonist equipment, then kill the colonists
through various metal deficiencies.
You could have the sea laced with the metal in question to a density
where extraction is more possible, but it makes the ocean a dangerous
place. See David Brin's _Startide_Rising_ for a non technical story
about trying to survive in a heavily metal laced ocean.
- --
Thomas Jones-Low
tjoneslo@together.net
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:21:57 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Colonial Tech Levels in the Solomani Rim
Chris Dixon wrote:
>
> Question for the list:
>
> Does a colony world share the Tech Level of the world that made the
> colony?
>
> I'm wondering specifically about Terran Confederation colonies during
> the Interstellar war periods.
>
> I can understand worlds that are already inhabited having a lower TL but
> I would think that a colony would share the homeworlds TL or maybe one
> or two lower. i.e. they know how to make jump 2 drives they just don't
> have the infrastructure in place yet to do so.
If you really want to work with detailed colonization rules, see if you
can get your hands on a copy of Pocket Empires (T4).
According to PE (page 72, Meta-Task "To Settle an Uninhabited World"), a
successful result will give the colony a TL of the colonizing
world/Pocket Empire, minus 2. Other aspects (such as population,
infrastructure, starport class, etc.) depend on both the degree of
success in the Meta-Task and the amount of effort (Resource Units) spent
in establishing the colony.
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 20:30:39 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff
Subject: RE: Galanglic character set
You can now download it directly from my site. I put it up there after the
online sources that I knew for it disappeared. Here's the URL:
http://vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/resources/
Jesse
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Jason Postma
> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 4:26 PM
> To: 'traveller@lists.imagiconline.com'
> Subject: Galanglic character set
>
>
> Any one out there know where I can get a windows font set for the
> galanglic
> character set (that stuff that's on all of Jesse's art)? I went
> around the
> ring without finding any.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 15:36:52 +1100
From: "AB"
Subject: Re: Galanglic character set
I do have a font that is based on the Visitor alphabet (from the TV series
'V') that looks similar.
I can't remember where I got it so I will e-mail it to you in a separate
document. It is contained in a 17kb ZIP file.
Anyone else interested can either request it from me or play with their
favorite search engine...
- -AB
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2093
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Traveller-digest Thursday, March 16 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2094
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Laphroaig
Re: Drives
Re: MONTANA-class Battleship (T4/FF&S2)
HIWG CD?
Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2085
Re: Interstellar Democracies in YTU
Re: Famile Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
Weather Control
Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab
Re: Re Rules vs Setting(long)
Re: Military types vs 7th graders TML # 2083
Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
Re: Familiem Spofulum (was Re: Droyne)
Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab
Re: Major Races (was Re: Drives)
Re: Droyne
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 00:50:03 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Laphroaig
In a message dated 00-03-15 12:21:45 EST, you write:
<< >
Laphroiag. Best I've ever tasted. Got hooked on it at Holy Loch. Expensive
but well worth it.
Doug Grimes >>
My favorite guzzle as well.
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 21:55:20 -0800
From: sneadj@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: Drives
GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> >you think *any* got the technology through imitation?>
>Any of the Major Races? No, my personal feeling is that they all
>developed it on their own. I am willing to give in on the point for
>the Vilani, Zhodani, K'kree, Hivers, and Vargr (but not _all of
>them_). I am totally adamant about the Terrans developing it on
>their own.
The Vargr, Zhodani, and Vilani all evolved on worlds which were by
definition Ancient sites. At least some of them should have copied
Ancient designs. The Hivers, K'kree evolved on worlds which were
not Ancient sites and were both quite far from the range of
Ancients.
Personally, I would say that the Vilani and the Vargr both copied
Ancient tech, and that the Zhodani, Solomani, Hivers, and K'kree
did not.
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:54:31 -0700
From: Dale Gyles
Subject: Re: MONTANA-class Battleship (T4/FF&S2)
I'm just glad to see my home state finally get a battleship named after it.
They cancelled the proposed Montana class in WWII.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dale Gyles
Black Eagle, MT
gyles@mtn-webtech.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:03:43 -0800
From: sneadj@mindspring.com
Subject: HIWG CD?
Where do I order the HIWG CD, and how much is it? The more I
hear about it, the more I want a copy.
- -John Snead sneadj@mindsprimg.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:17:11 -0800
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
Subject: Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
Via electronic medium on 3/14/00 2:02 PM, eris@pcola.gulf.net
eris@pcola.gulf.net issued forth:
> First, it might be interesting to have chargen rules for primates, dolphins,
> and another specie or two.
>
Yes, that would be delicious.
> I'd also like to see some more alien races scattered around. We have a few,
> but could use a few more.
Yes, we need more aliens, we need more aliens to play!
We need Bug-Eyes, and Uplifts, and even odder things...
Guidelines can be derived from the Xenobiology 101 thread a while back,
which somebody is hosting somewhere.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:23:26 -0500 (PST)
From: "Curtis Phillips"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2085
Mornington Crescent!
Oh damn! I miss cricket, Radio 4, and the Carfax chippy. :(
cp
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:52:13 +0000
From: Ewan Quibell
Subject: Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER
WENT DOWN)
eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
>
> On 03/15/00 at 01:00 AM, "Matthew Bond" said:
>
> >Well, its quite simple really.
>
> >There are two teams. The one that is in is determined by a coin toss. The
> >team that is in goes out to bat, and the team that isn't in goes in to
> >the field. The team that is in stays in until they are all out, when they
> >go in, and the other team, that is now in, goes out. When they are out
> >they go in, and the first team comes out to go in. After they are out
> >they go back in and the second team comes out to go in again. When these
> >are all out the game ends, and the team that has score the most wins, and
> >both sides go in. They then go out to drink warm beer.
>
> >See, simple.
>
> For someone that understands baseball, that explanation made *perfect* sense. The only question I have is how do those that are in get out, so those that are out can come in? ;-J
>
> Eris
The bowler in the team that is out, bowls the ball at the batsman who
is
in, in the team which is in, who is trying not to get out. The batsman
can be out many ways, but what is also important to note is that he can
also be not out. When all the batsman who are in are out, including not
out, the team that was in goes out and the team which was out goes in.
How's that ?
Ewan
- - --
Ewan Quibell Their's not to make reply,
Senior Communications Engineer Their's not to reason why,
Computer Centre Their's but to do and die:
University of Brighton Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk Alfred, Lord Tennyson
#include
My spelling is entirerly due to dyslexia, typos, and poetic license
University of Brighton - Sunday Times' University of the Year
- ------------------------------
Curtis Phillips
Winery & Vineyard Consultant
(805) 886-8941
(805) 348-9220
phillips@saber.net
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:36:51 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Interstellar Democracies in YTU
>Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 20:23:00 +0100
>From: Ingo Heinscher
>Subject: Re: Interstellar Democracies in YTU
...
>> They must have had some objectives beyond that of making corpses, and it
>>doesn't seem to have been wealth, or possibly even personal power. Utterly
>>mistaking the strength of their position vis-a-vis internal security and
>>violent resistance was no doubt a factor, of course. And those were fairly
>>clever men, all things considered, so they were trying to do something, yes?
>
>Oh, they _were_ idealists, no doubt. But they didn't seem to think of the
>peasants, but their ideology. That _ideology_ may have had the peasants in
>mind upon its creation, but that initial idea behind it all, I say, was
>somehow lost to them by the time they killed all those poor people. And,
>BTW, each other.
I'm not sure that the Terrorist regime cared much for peasants, but on
the other hand they really didn't do much _to_ them, either, excepting
the rebels in the NW. And the long-term changes wrought by the Revolution
did change things for the better for the peasantry.
Not that peaceful change & development couldn't have done it at least
as well, but it hadn't happened yet :(
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 18:30:47 +1100
From: "Katharine Whitchurch"
Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 20:40:47 -0500
> From: "R.D. Elliott"
> Subject: RE: Famille Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
> [snip]
> >Ladies and Gentlemen, I proudly present to you the first cut of the
Famile
> >Spofulam entry in the THUDDD competition for a TL15 Commerce Raider ...
the
> >militarised J class Racing Yacht.
> >
>
>
> However, in light of the above, I might just rethink my
> Milieucentrism; that is a truly and utterly bent, bent, bent idea :). I
> was just running on the concept of spacecraft equivalent of that 20-G grav
> bike I did a while back; the thought of arming it is truly twisted...
Kinda the equivalent of taking a top fuel dragster, putting a recoilless
rifle on it and calling it an Infantry Fighting Vehicle, really.
>
>
> [snip]
> >Add 1t Beer Fridge, 1t Stereo System and 1t Lighting System.
> >
> >Someone else can do the stats for your favorite space combat system.
>
>
> I like. Kind of has a black sheep of the Noble House setting up as
> a priate kind of vibe to it...
>
> By the way, Ian, if you do manage to recover any of your designs,
> I'd like to see them; the last one I saw was (I think) the 4mj Plasma
> Tube...
Thats the Man-Portable Plasma Cannon, right ? The "recoil damping is not
supported" design ... I'll forward anything I get back to you. Time to get
BITS to release a full Famile Spofulam catalogue, I think.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 01:04:48 -0600 (CST)
From: houstonshocky@webtv.net
Subject: Weather Control
Shocky said:
I have a question about TNE.
If a world has a pre collapse TL of say 15 with weather control
satellites and, after the collapse, is then dropped down to say TL 2 or
3 with all orbiting facilities destroyed, what would be the weather
patterns of this world?
Matt Said:
Leaving aside the fact that any form of large scale weather control is
probably impossible, I would think that it would swiftly revert to the
'natural' weather patterns for the planet, probably violently.
The weather is a result of interactions between insolation (energy
received from the sun), rotational speed, planetary size, atmospheric
density, hydrographics, the location of mountain ranges, and a myriad
other factors. All of these are essentially intrinsic to that planet and
are very difficult to change. Especially with a handful of TL-15
satellites.
To really alter a planets weather would require a major 'terraforming'
project, and even then you would only be able to adjust unbearably
extreme weather into something tolerable, but still chaotic. In which
case the 'new' weather *would* be 'natural' for the planet, and any
subsequent TL crash wouldn't affect it.
>>Wouldn't any form of terraforming basically be Weather Control to
varying degrees of complexity?
>>Still, thinking Weather can be controlled by satellites doesn't really
fit into the Scientific Mind set of Traveller. More makes me think of
the "Superman" movie with Richard Pryor.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 00:27:27 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude
Subject: Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab
AB wrote:
> Bags: Glisten/Aster (1739)
>
> -AB
The planet Prono I gots......
- --
Evyn...
TMLUPP:5C7A78
C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/
Wish I was a better person... with more control...
Turn the other cheek... and when the punch comes, roll...
Wish I was a kinder person... could see the others pain...
Not over react, not judge... and shrug off the spreadin' stain.
Damaged, by John Shirley/Donald Roeser, BOC, Heaven Forbid 1998.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 02:51:27 -0500
From: "Chauncey Smith"
Subject: Re: Re Rules vs Setting(long)
Please note the original post is included because I wish to attack this
particular question from a different angle and avoid what looks to be a
nasty one.
The rule set of any RPG is a paradigm of the universe and the setting is the
environment. To point to the example of modern war/action movies we can
really see this. Compare the following films Rambo:first blood II with Full
Matel Jacket. In the first one you see the main charater as nearly
indestructible. in the second he's a mortal. Both movies had the same
setting Veit Nam but different time periods. In RPG terms they had different
rule sets. The rule set plays with the amount of fantasy in an RPG. That's
why in D&D the players are all good guys and wade in to combat out numbered
at greater then 4 to 1. In Warp World the players are shiving and more
willing to talk about.
Setting is where you play and time period. In Traveller terms we call this a
milieu. So the Rambo movie is in the post viet nam milieu and the other film
is in the viet nam war milieu. We can play each milieu in each system but it
effects the way the PC's or in case of movies Main Charater solves problems
and reacts to danger.
My feelings personally is I like the Idea's given in all the Traveller
Systems that are carried over from system to system. That is the creature
creation, world creation, Universal profiles and a Task system.
These addition to the game mechanics is really elegant and I've never seen
the like before and feel in love with it. But as to the fantasy level of
each milieu is pretty much in the control of the GM. It's even more in
control of the GT GM because they set the rules they wish to keep and use.
They truly have a flexible Engine in the game and can have as much romance
or hard science reality as they like. What they lose is the Traveller way of
doing things for a different way. but the universal profiles are only
important if you learned how to read them. GURPs has another way of
presenting ships and creatures and animals. My personal belief is Traveller
is a buffet I take what I want and leave the rest.
- -----Original Message-----
From: William F. Hostman
To: traveller@mpgn.com
Date: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 12:10 AM
Subject: Re Rules vs Setting
>>Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 05:41:10 -0800 (PST)
>>From: john hamilton
>>Subject: Re: Best rules system and T5
>>
>>- --- "William F. Hostman" wrote:
>>> >1.How many versions of Traveller have been released
>>> at
>>> >this point?
>>>
>>> IMHO: 4.5
>>> CT, MT, TNE, T4
>>> GT isn't quite a full edition IMHO...
>>
>>Actually,GT is as much Traveller as the other
>>versions:the rules differences are huge,BUT:
>
>There are numerous setting changes that are incompatable with the others,
>as well.
>
>>What brings people to play a RPG?
>>The rules,or the setting (or with Gurps,the Settings)?
>
>IME, the meshing of the rules and setting. Some rulesets work well for some
>settings, lousy for others. I find GURPS to be generally "Anti-Traveller"
>in rule mechanics. Incompatable basic assumptions with the "Look and Feel"
>which even TNE and T4 maintained. GT is a major attempt to cross that
>barrier, but I find the differences quite annoying, and dislike GURPS
>mechanics in general, even though I used to run it a lot. As I have grown
>older, GURPS has had far less appeal with each passing year. No offense to
>Loren, but I don't feel that GT captured the "Look and Feel". While I like
>GT:FT's trade mechanics, I'd have liked a set of tables for use with "Real
>Traveller".
>
>Likewise, TNE doesn't recreate the freewheeling nature of the Marches
>1107-1115 campaigns I've run, but it does it's dark and hopeful setting
>well; likewise, CT and MT don't work as well for the "Smash and Grabs" of
>TNE... differing assumptions about combat.
>
>>GtT published material which wasn't available for
>>aeons( TNE and T$ biggest fault was that you didn't
>>get anything about the mayor races,and MT wasn't good
>>in it,either.) and will bring completly new things
>>out,when they finished the somewhat reprint run of old
>>CT books ( High Guard as Star Mercs,Alien Modules etc)
>
>Since I already own a copy of almost every CT book, I'm interested in the
>reprints for NEW players. One's who want a "Real Traveller" (their words,
>this time, not mine, in this instance) instead of a GURPS adaptation. Most
>of my traveller GMing friends use MT or TNE; the rest use CT with 1st Ed
>Starfire grafted in. THey ALL use GURPS, but don't like GT. I leant one
>friend my GT book, based upon a read, he decided that GT wasn't for him,
>either, and won't buy it.
>
>>Since T5 probably won't come out for a long time,it
>>will remain the only currently published T (with
>>exeption of BITS ,of course.(Of course,I can be
>>complete wrong with that,but remember:
>>there already is a very extensive T edition out
>>there,the biggest ever,since you can use the other
>>Gurps books,like Gurps Space,or even Aztecs,with it.
>
>Are you sure that won't break the setting? TNE's cyber was commensurate
>with that in TD issues __ & __ (for use with MT); with the MT established
>regulations, it doesn't get too far out of line. But unrestrained grabs
>from other (Especially older) GURPS books can create real problems, as the
>older one had some differing assumptions about the same advantage
>point-wise!
>
>>A NEW Player wilhave to learn the rules anyway:chances
>>are he chooses the System with FAR more supplements.
>>And we ? Be honest:You already have your favorite
>>T,for a long time.You probably will buy a few
>>SELECTED supplements,if at all,which is not enough for
>>a game to survive.That's basicly what I did with T4 (I
>>latter purchased the whole run at a discount,after it
>>already had been reduced in prize),who did the
>>same?Many ,I assume.)
>
>Funny, My FLGS seems to keep MT in stock. No TNE, Little T4, and very
>little CT. And they keep moving.
>
>Now, MWM at one point in private email explained to me not to be hopeful
>for any MT reprints... apparently, he dislikes the system. Then again, that
>was before T4. I bought much of T4. I bought most of TNE. I have every GDW
>and DGP book (except 101 Robots and Grand Survey) for CT/MT, and am missing
>the early TD's.
>
>I don't take it personally. MWM wrote CT's mechanics. And MT changed them.
>Including the work of several others, and apparently outsourced to DGP,
>based upon the credits.
>
>There is far more to "Traveller" than JUST the setting, or the rules. It's
>a combination of game-philosphy, setting and mechanics. One which GURPS has
>NEVER shared is the mechanics nor the game philosphy. Basically: Traveller
>grew both setting and rules together, in an evolutionary method, and they
>support each other. Therefore, the rules are tailored to the setting, and
>the setting to the rules. GURPS, however, is a "Generic" engine, with the
>philosophy that any setting can simply be grafted in. See the First Ed's
>designer's notes. I've run G:B&B, and I've run the original B&B. The rules
>for either work as well, as the original was not well suited... nor organic
>to the setting. Traveller, however, has interlocking setting and rules
>through the first three editions. But without Randomizeable CGen, quick
>and easy rules (I find GURPS to be as cumbersome as
>Spacemaster/Rolemaster), and allowign for much abuse by players who don't
>already know the SETTING and it's limits on technology (much traveller high
>tech (TTL10+/GTL 8+ have differing assumptions, and about that point, their
>TL scales diverge rapidly), GT is really no better than using the CORPS,
>Hero, or Storyteller engines for running traveller. The supplements for GT
>are better than the ones for T4, but IMHO, not on par with those for MT. Or
>even CT. I only own GT and GT:FT, and having read the others at my FLGS,
>have not found anything worth grabbing for MTU, and since I don't use
>GURPS, no reason to buy them. I'll buy T5, but not GT.
>
>William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
>interface!"
>Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
>533
>aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti
sirohbrankilin
>IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
>pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 00:35:22 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude
Subject: Re: Military types vs 7th graders TML # 2083
Eric T. Holmes wrote:
> Fellow TMLers:
>
> After writing USAF Regulations for two years, I can tell you from
> experience that this college educated SOB had to dumb down
> the regs to fourth and fifth grade level.
>
> New York Times articles are at fifth grade level, and this
> was considered too advanced for regulations.
>
> If I was writing for officers, I had to dumb down to ninth grade
> reading level.
>
> What can I say!
Ok.... I'll bite how does one rate what grade level a piece of
writing is at?
- --
Evyn...
TMLUPP:5C7A78
C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/
Wish I was a better person... with more control...
Turn the other cheek... and when the punch comes, roll...
Wish I was a kinder person... could see the others pain...
Not over react, not judge... and shrug off the spreadin' stain.
Damaged, by John Shirley/Donald Roeser, BOC, Heaven Forbid 1998.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 23:33:12 -0900
From: Peter Newman
Subject: Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote
> > IMTU Psionics in the Solomani Sphere is a state secret because
> > of widespread popular distrust of Psionics dating back to
> > the Psionics Suppressions. I just don't see SolSec letting
> > anyone but SolSec have Psionics.
>
> Check out Bujold's "Ethan of Athos" to see what happens when a SolSec
> like organization attempts to make use of telepaths to question
> dissidents.
I am a big Bujold fan and I think that comparing the
Cetagandans to SolSec is a mis comparison. yes they both
hold a "By any means necessary." method but the Ghem are
more straightforward than SolSec while the Haut are more
devious than SolSec. To be the Cetagandans have always had
a very Asian, and specifically Japanese, flavor with the
Ghem = Samurai and the Haut = Court Nobles. Conversely SolSec
has always, like most Traveller institutions had more of a
Western culture - specifically SolSec, at least to me, always
bore a strong resemblance to the Stasi, the Secret Police in
the former East Germany.
> Basicly, unless you can manage to get telepaths that are as "twisted"
> as the SolSec types at the interrogation (and "twisted" in much the
> same way) they are going to compare the minds of the SolSec higher ups
> and the dissidents and quickly figure out which side they can stomach.
Reading the mind of your superior in the secret police is
no different than breaking into the agencies secret files.
In any proper totalitarian secret police that should be
pretty much an automatic death sentence. I figure that SolSec
has a policy similar to the KGB's of feeding traitors to
the agency into the company crematorium while they were still
alive (a policy that was confirmed as fact by more than one high
level KGB defector IIRC).
I also note that reading the minds of the higher ups requires
that they not have a mind shield up (or that you break it).
If SolSec tests first for Telepathy than most SolSec psionicists
will be Telepathic (and have mind shields). If you are feeling
generous about the skills levels of Solomani Psionicists you
could assume that, like the Zhodani, they can train non
telepaths in Mind Shield.
> It may be a long time before they can do anything about it, but sooner
> or later they'll get a chance to get away. And then your *real*
> troubles start.
Special Psionics in Traveller includes Precognition. It seems
likely to me that there is a good chance that SolSec often knows
who (in SolSec not the general population) will defect before
they know it themselves.
> And yes, I'm asuming that the higher ups in *any* organization such as
> SolSec are *far* from being idealists.
Recruits to the (hypothetical) SolSec Special Branch are
presumably all given deep telepathic scans for loyalty to
SolSec (not the Confederation as a whole) before they are
brought in.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 23:47:01 -0900
From: Peter Newman
Subject: Re: Familiem Spofulum (was Re: Droyne)
Roderick Darroch Elliott wrote
[Same statement after the PR department rewrites it:]
> And what, may I ask, is "immoral"
Exhibiting a refreshing corporate culture
>about using your extended family
in a wholesome, family oriented environment,
> as cheap labour
that is fiscally conservative and bottom line oriented.
> in a business empire
in a successful and prosperous business,
> based on cutthroat business practices
based on time honored business practices common to all
human cultures.
> and selling ludicrously dangerous
Exciting products for the discriminating clientele.
> and unsafe products
[See footnote on p. 5 of the warranty - What you can't read
4 point type in infra red visible ink in Hopi? - Too
bad, so sad.]
> designed by drugged-out children
Created by a very special design team who do whatever it
takes to ensure you quality products.
> to criminals,
all segments of our society including the poor,
> despots,
distinguished planetary leaders,
> Vargr
our alien friends,
> and the filthy rich?
and our social leaders.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 01:01:39 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude
Subject: Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab
Evyn MacDude wrote:
> AB wrote:
>
> > Bags: Glisten/Aster (1739)
> >
> > -AB
>
> The planet Prono I gots......
Damn... I Misspelled Porno......
Now I knows theesss Gonna blackball me from the old
perverts.... I mean prevects home.
- --
Evyn...
TMLUPP:5C7A78
C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/
Wish I was a better person... with more control...
Turn the other cheek... and when the punch comes, roll...
Wish I was a kinder person... could see the others pain...
Not over react, not judge... and shrug off the spreadin' stain.
Damaged, by John Shirley/Donald Roeser, BOC, Heaven Forbid 1998.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 23:57:58 -0900
From: Peter Newman
Subject: Re: Major Races (was Re: Drives)
GDWGAMES@aol.com [LKW] wrote
> you write:
> > What was the original intent [re jump drives]?
> The original intent was that all races developed jump drive without "arranged
> accidents" or seeding or anything else.
> Then Marc decided that the Aslan should have a rumor about a crashed Solomani
> ship to make them more interesting. He mentioned this to DIgest Group, and
> they published it as reality, rather than a rumor, so Marc decided to go
> along.
> >do you think *any* got the technology through imitation?
> Any of the Major Races? No, my personal feeling is that they all developed it
> on their own.
So it has been said.
So it is written.
So it is.
> I am willing to give in on the point for the Vilani, Zhodani,
> K'kree, Hivers, and Vargr (but not _all of them_).
Any heretics out there want to start a poll to vote on
which of these races are most likely to be minor races?
My Picks:
1) Vilani (most likely to be minor)
2) Vargr
3) Zhodani
4) Hivers
5) K'kree
> I am totally adamant about the Terrans developing it on their own.
[With the way Loren is sticking up for those Solmani you
would almost think he was one of them. g,d,r]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 00:36:10 -0900
From: Peter Newman
Subject: Re: Droyne
"Matthew Bond" wrote
> > Peter Newman wrote:
> >the description of Grandfather in Adv. 12 states, that he was
> >the only one to master the level 15 Awareness psi talent
> >of immortality through total cell regeneration. It does
> >not, IIRC, say that the Children & Grandchildren also had
> >this talent.
> "So a breeding program produced 20 children, and each of them had about 20
> children of their own, creating a simple core of highly intelligent,
> *immortal* beings." [AM5:Droyne p45, emphasis mine]
Good point. Perhaps the other reference meant that Grandfather
was the only sophont to figure it out on his own. The
Children and Grandchildren may have had it taught to them
by Grandfather.
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2094
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From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)
To: traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #2094
Reply-To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
Subj: Traveller-digest V1999 #2095
Date: 3/16/00 7:18:59 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)
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Traveller-digest Thursday, March 16 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2095
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Glad to be back in the saddle but a bit sadder
RE: Alien Sport
Re: Glad to be back in the saddle but a bit sadder
Re: Military types vs 7th graders TML # 2083
Weather Control
Re: 'Parahumans' and heretical Solomani
Re: Traveller with Alternity
Re: Famille Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares?
Re: Yanks are coming...
Re: Weather Control
Laphroaig
Re: Galanglic character set
Re: Laphroaig
Re: Laphroaig
Re: Drives
Re: Sworld world names?
Re: The sad saga of the T4 starship rules
RE: Jump drive activation inside a gravitational field
RE: Jump drive activation inside a gravitational field
RE: Jump drive activation inside a gravitational field
Re: Weather Control
RE: Colonial Tech Levels in the Solomani Rim
RE: TL
JTAS Gift Subs
RE: Alien Sport
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 07:43:16 +1100
From: "Karen and Michael Hughes"
Subject: Glad to be back in the saddle but a bit sadder
> Via electronic medium on 3/14/00 10:44 AM, Leonard Erickson
> shadow@krypton.rain.com issued forth:
>
> > Would you be interested in some speculation about what sort of
> > conditions on-world would *make* heavy metal extraction from seawater
> > more practical? Some of the possibilities would make for interesting
> > background and hazards.
>
> Ignore these requests to /not/ divulge information, if the poster does not
> want hard data, the poster need not read your response. I, for one, find
> many of your scientific posts quite interesting. You are probably the
number
> one target for flagging, although I have not tallied the saved messages in
> my archive.
>
> BZA's Traveller--> http://www.sierratel.com/aum/BZAT/
> BZA's E-Mail--> xrp@sierratel.com
>
Dude - it was a joke - honest!. Even if I didn't have a :) or a :-) or a ;-)
or, god forbid a <0>.
So now I am :-(
or better yet
:-0
I for one enjoy Leonard's 'Incredible Journeys to the land of science'. It
scares me how much I don't know - though I do admit that a lack of basic
science knowledge does hamper this somewhat.
Signing off to revel in ignorance.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 03:57:05 -0600 (CST)
From: houstonshocky@webtv.net
Subject: RE: Alien Sport
< < awash in < get better < Maybe then it is a < rank belts; you know white < used to hold up your < only really be worn during < < wanted.
Ummm shouldn't that be a Ceremonial Collar? ya know, flea collar on up
to studded leather w/ diamond cluster.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 02:29:01 -0800
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
Subject: Re: Glad to be back in the saddle but a bit sadder
Via electronic medium on 3/15/00 12:43 PM, Karen and Michael Hughes
kmhughes@dynamite.com.au issued forth:
> Dude - it was a joke - honest!. Even if I didn't have a :) or a :-) or a ;-)
> or, god forbid a <0>.
>
It's OK, relax, I was just making /sure/ he didn't take you seriously.
> So now I am :-(
>
Smile, I was in no way trying to dis you.
> or better yet
>
> :-0
>
hmm... OK.
> I for one enjoy Leonard's 'Incredible Journeys to the land of science'. It
> scares me how much I don't know - though I do admit that a lack of basic
> science knowledge does hamper this somewhat.
>
Blame the education system, I too get a lot from L's posts.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 23:31:54 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Military types vs 7th graders TML # 2083
On 16 Mar 00, at 0:35, Evyn MacDude wrote:
>
>
> Eric T. Holmes wrote:
>
> > Fellow TMLers:
> >
> > After writing USAF Regulations for two years, I can tell you from
> > experience that this college educated SOB had to dumb down
> > the regs to fourth and fifth grade level.
> >
> > New York Times articles are at fifth grade level, and this
> > was considered too advanced for regulations.
> >
> > If I was writing for officers, I had to dumb down to ninth grade
> > reading level.
> >
> > What can I say!
>
> Ok.... I'll bite how does one rate what grade level a piece of
> writing is at?
By whether or not officers can read it :)
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 04:54:50 -0600 (CST)
From: houstonshocky@webtv.net
Subject: Weather Control
>The following is based on what I know
>about Chaos theory:
>
>Weather is a chaotic system.
>Chaotic systems have 'a sensitive
>dependence on initial starting conditions.'
>When you remove the control element I
>suspect this would be equivalent to a
>new start state for the chaos system.
>
>I imagine the result would be that the
>climate would change and develop new
>'islands of stability' after a while.
>
>ie: Things would get weird for a bit then
>things would settle down into a
>new climatic pattern that might or might
>not be similar to the old pre weather
>control system, but would not likely be
>exactly the same.
>
>-AB
This is like the Butterfly flapping it's wings in the Amazon and causing
a Tornadoe to destroy a house in Oklahoma. But, what if that Butterfly
did not flap it's wings?
- -Shocky
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 21:56:28 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: 'Parahumans' and heretical Solomani
In mail you write:
> My understanding was that there is a simple test that can determine
> whether you are a Solomani by your genetics (and even whether you're
> "pure" or not). Personally I have my doubts about this, unless they're
> just tracking one particular gene group (at which point it's not
> testing purity anymore).
Given that the various sub-species of humaniti have been isolated for
200,000+ years, it'd be a minor miracle if they *all* didn't have
distinctive genetic markers.
But due to them likely being *different* markers on *different*
genes/chromosomes, while they'd be good for testing ancestry, they
*wouldn't* be so great for "purity".
That is, rather than a gene scan saying "He's pure XXX" all they could
say is "He has no genes not found in XXX" which is *far* from the same
thing.
For example, Vilani might have a "Type C" blood type that is common
among them. Say they have Type B and Type C, but not type A. So Vilani
blood types would be B[1], BC, C, and O. So type C & BC blood would be
proof of Vilani ancestry, types A & AB blood type would be proof of
Solomani ancestry, type BC would be proof of *both* Solomani *and*
Vilani ancestry, and types B & O are inconclusive (ie no way to tell
*which* your ancestors were).
Other human subspecies could have other similar markers, but not
necessarily blood types. So again you could in some cases prove that
someone had ancestors of a given "race" in others you couldn't. And in
some cases, you'd show ancestors of *several* "races".
So, as you can see (if you can't, ask me to explain further)
inheritance isn't as "simple" as typical racists would like.
[1] I picked type B, because distribution patterns seem to show that
"older" populations on Earth tend to be Type B, implying that Type A is
a more recent mutation.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:40:32 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller with Alternity
In mail you write:
> On 14 Mar 00, at 18:23, Kelly St.Clair wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:40:22 +1300, "Rupert Boleyn"
>> wrote:
>>
>> > When I got Alternity I was stuck by how much the rules owed to
>> > Traveller, especially TNE. Yet everyone I've met claims it's an AD&D >
>> knock-off. Seems strange to me that an AD&D clone would have a task >
>> system like TNE's, a stat range like Traveller's, guns from CT, 5 day >
>> jumps, etc, etc, etc.
>>
>> I strongly suspect this is because they've never HEARD of Traveller, let
>> alone are familiar enough with it to make the comparison. *sigh* Kids
>> these days, no sense of history...
>
> There is that :( There also seems to be a belief that on one would ever
> want to copy anything but D&D (I for one feel the reverse).
>
>> Yes, I turn 30 tomorrow, why do you ask?
>
> Ha! You spring chicken you! I turned 30 six weeks ago (didn't feel much
> different in the morning, either). At least now I have an excuse for
> feeling old and de
Subj: Traveller-digest V1999 #2096
Date: 3/16/00 10:13:17 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)
Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
Reply-to: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
To: traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
Traveller-digest Thursday, March 16 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2096
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Info request re: "Rim" and another cover!
=?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Drives_(LKW=B4s_thoughts)?=
Re: Drives
[none]
Drives
re: Info request re: "Rim" and another cover!
RE: Alien Sport
Re: Ancients
Re: and here's what it looks like...-sorry,that's just the same again
re: and here's what it looks like...-sorry,that's just the same again
Ancient research
Re: Parahumans and Solomani
RE: Info request re: "Rim" and another cover!
re: Info request re: "Rim" and another cover!
Re: Info request re: "Rim" and another cover!
RE: Ancients
Sorry for not chaning the subject line(was:Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2073)
Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
Re: Info request re: "Rim" and another cover!
Re: Ancient research
Re: TOP 4 REASONS...
Re: Droyne
Re: Parahumans...
Single malt scotch debates (was Re: Laphroaig)
Re: Galanglic character set
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 07:19:54 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff
Subject: Info request re: "Rim" and another cover!
Morning all!
Yesterday I accepted the offer from SJG to do the cover for "Rim of Fire".
Here's the info I need. Since the cover is going to show Earth, and a
starport in orbit around it (as well as a LOT of in-system traffic), has
there ever been any published mention and / or illustrations of the main
Earth starport?
Thanks for the help!
Jesse
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 00:32:08 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Drives_(LKW=B4s_thoughts)?=
At 03:13 16.03.00, you wrote:
>Any of the Major Races? No, my personal feeling is that they all developed it
>on their own. I am willing to give in on the point for the Vilani, Zhodani,
>K'kree, Hivers, and Vargr (but not _all of them_). I am totally adamant about
>the Terrans developing it on their own.
Aww, they make the best conspiracy theories.
Just consider:
a) The similarities between Sumerian and Vilani:
A Vilani Scoutcraft crashlanded in that part of the world and
started one of the
first large cultres we know of today. Maybe the craft has been
found sometime
after 2050.
b) The Roswell Crash:
Again, a vilani scout crashed, this time leaving more remains to
help figure out it´s workings.
c) The Ancients sites on Venus, Mars (remember the face?), and Pluto:
Pluto is red-zoned even in Imperial times, and there has to be a
reason for that
Maybe someting that was left gave the Terrans the final clue on
how to proceed to build a working prototype, even if they didn´t have a
fully developed version they could copy.
There are so many things which point to or let one assume that Terrans had
_some_ kind of clue on how to build a star drive, that the "We´ve
discovered it by mere chance in the asteroid belt!" theory just doesn´t
satisfy me. The Vilani borders are just to close to Terra. This theory also
validates and integrates many of the currently existing conspiracy theories
(Aliens/Ancient Astronauts/etc), so it´s really just a logical consequence. ;-)
Imagine: The Illuminati are in fact decendants of the crashed Vilani, who
have tried to master the world since their crash and Sumer has been their
first empire.
YMMV, but that´s how i like it best ;-)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 00:37:29 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Re: Drives
At 06:55 16.03.00, you wrote:
>Personally, I would say that the Vilani and the Vargr both copied
>Ancient tech, and that the Zhodani, Solomani, Hivers, and K'kree
>did not.
I give discovery credit to: K´kree, Hivers and Droyne, maybe Vilani.
Why Vilani? Because they developed the Mayor Race bit, and their view of
themselves suggests that they really did invent Jump Drive. Other than that
argument, they make prime candidates for copyists as well.
Solomani did copy their drive, IMTU, of course, for why see my other mail.
The Zhodani had not one but two sites in their system. Additionally they
were telepaths, so figuring out some of the workings of some devices came
more natural to them. They just had to have a copy somewhere up in that
city on the moon.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 10:42:31 -0500 (EST)
From: chad Novak
Subject: [none]
Unsubscribe
end
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 10:48:10 -0500
From: "Smith, Walter"
Subject: Drives
In my opinion, at least one Vargr society independently
developed jump drives.
Evidence: Vargr jump drives were once known for their poor
quality. They once even used *Barium-based* elements in place
of Lanthanum ones.
If the Vargr had copied an Ancient artifact drive, they
wouldn't be using Barium elements, they'd have known that
Lanthanum was needed from the start.
Whew, what a way to prove them to be a major race.
"They must have done it on their own, a copy would have
worked better."
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 10:51:53 -0500
From: "Smith, Walter"
Subject: re: Info request re: "Rim" and another cover!
Jesse,
The only information I'm aware of are the locations of Terra's major
surface starports (Invasion: Earth map), and the possible existance of a
Beanstalk on Terra (White Dwarf articles, but people seemed to like the
idea).
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 11:06:55 -0500
From: "Garcia, Abel"
Subject: RE: Alien Sport
- -----Original Message-----
>< >< >awash in < >get better < >Maybe then it is a < >rank belts; you know white < >used to hold up your < >only really be worn during < >< >wanted.
>
From: Phil Kitching
If there are reports of a body being found ripped to pieces in
what looks like a cross between a large wild animal attack and
a sacrificial ritual, the TML will have proof that it's not just
the Vilani watching us.
Phil,
I like this idea for a "one-shot" TNE/T2.2K scenario: how about a
modern/near future scenario where T2.2K PCs are
guarding/investigating/visiting a gorilla preserve when (ala _PREDATOR_) an
Aslan is snatching all sorts of apes for some upcoming tourney...
Abel
("Kit you can *always* distinguish the spoor of the hairless monkey from his
brethren: it *smells* like a plucked chicken.";)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 08:12:23 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: Ancients
The main error in this debate is simply that millions
of scientists on thousands of planets couldn't come up
with a theory with so much clues.And for a science
situation there is an abundance of clues.
The main argument against it is simply canon.And canon
is simply a plot device,not something 100% logicaly(or
even 25%)
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 08:17:42 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: and here's what it looks like...-sorry,that's just the same again
- --- SD Mooney wrote:
> At 12:21 -0500 15/^
/00, john hamilton
> wrote:
> >Now something controversial:
> >TRAVELLER TNE!!!!
> >Yes,for us,it had everything needed.You could play
> >with it,even if you had only slight ideas of the
> 3I's
> >history;but it was destroyed anyway!
> >
> >Yes,every one of the examples has COUNTLESS
> >supplements,but you can play without them.
> >DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME WITH T4!
>
> Funny, ISTR that T4 has a starship construction
> system in the rules
> (albeit with need of errata) and TNE doesn't. Kind
> of made TNE in
> need of Brilliant Lances or FFS1.
I knew that this argument would come up.For a
gearhead,TNE is probably sinful:it lacks the rules for
spending endless time constructing starships.From a
roleplayers point of view,it contains everything;the
pregenerated ships are more than enough.
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 08:21:20 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: re: and here's what it looks like...-sorry,that's just the same again
- --- SD Mooney wrote:
>
> My Take?
>
T5 lite on a website
This could be a very good way.I think SJGames has done
the same,realizing that the need for 3 rulebooks
reduced the market value of their very good
supplements.
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 08:28:35 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Ancient research
- --- Bruce Johnson
wrote:
> john ha
> Finally, as someone else has mentioned it, the
> Ancients were in the
> absolute iron-fisted grip of the 'not invented here'
> syndrome. They
> didn't share technology with each other, even more
> so after the Final
> War started, so you could have 421 different
> versions of 'the keyboard'.
The thinking error in most argument is simply
A the droyne didn't start from scratch.They already
had established tech and thus standards.And
those,exspecially for minor things like a keyboard
,don't change.(Do you really think a fork in the Alpha
Centaury colony in 4000 A. D. would look that
different from your forks)
B A Droyne hand (or head.Or ....) stays the same.So
the devices will have some similarities by default.And
the human and vargr helpers are no argument:You will
see who was the boss.
Maybe a roman servus lived better than a roman
farmer,but compared to his boss......?
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 08:30:58 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: Parahumans and Solomani
- --- Bruce Johnson
wrote:
> Matthew Bond wrote:
>
> > Well, I'd be surly if the local plant life was
> deadly to humans without
> > major reprocessing...
>
> Not really. There are a number of staple foodstuffs
> in use by cultures
> here that require shugilli-like processing.
>
> The staple starch of a number of Polynesian island
> groups came from a
> species of cycad that required some extensive
> processing before it was
> made non-poisonous, (and at lower levels it's
> carcinogenic, as well)
>
> There's a root vegetable that is the staple starch
> in the Amazon basin
> that needs to have the cyanide processed out of it.
>
> Taro, another staple of the Pacific, is poisonous as
> well before
> treatment, it's full of calcium oxalate.
The most common example is the cyanic acid-spoiled
maniok of West Africa.
However ,those are exeptions.On vland,everything is
incompatible to humans.
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 16:46:32 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter"
Subject: RE: Info request re: "Rim" and another cover!
Jesse DeGraff wrote:
> Yesterday I accepted the offer from SJG to do the cover for
> "Rim of Fire". Here's the info I need. Since the cover is
> going to show Earth, and a starport in orbit around it (as well
> as a LOT of in-system traffic), has there ever been any
> published mention and / or illustrations of the main Earth
> starport?
From memory (since I'm at work and my employer frowns on me
having my entire Traveller collection in the office) ...
Earth has 3 ground starports:
- - Starport Phoenix (on the North American continent ... guess
where!)
- - AECO Starport (on the African continent ... Libya I think)
- - LaGrange Starport (in Australia)
IIRC Starport Phoenix was renamed St Paulo Starport sometime
after the Solomani Rim War ('cos of the use of the name 'Phoenix'
by the Phoenix Project).
If recognisable coastlines are going to be present I suggest you
check out map in GDW's Invasion Earth game ... but take it with a
pinch of salt. (The box cover has my all-time favorite pre-Jesse
Traveller art.) If you don't have access and think they might be
relevant I can do some quick scans and post them to you off-list.
The Nile has flooded to be more of a narrow sea, and there are
trees and grass around the pyramids. New York is covered by a
big transparent dome.
I don't remember anything about orbital facilities.
Not sure how much this helps ...
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 09:57:42 -0800
From: "J. Paul Sanders"
Subject: re: Info request re: "Rim" and another cover!
At 10:51 AM 3/16/00 -0500, you wrote:
>Jesse,
>
>The only information I'm aware of are the locations of Terra's major
>surface starports (Invasion: Earth map), and the possible existance of a
>Beanstalk on Terra (White Dwarf articles, but people seemed to like the
>idea).
>
Then again, DGP's "Travellers' Digest" #13 was devoted exclusively to the
Terra
System and Marc also write an article detailing Luna in "Dragon" #87 (from
which TD13 draws in some instances) which, if I recall correctly, mentions one
of the starports upon the Moon (Copernicus Downport?) as once having being a
major transshipping point for the system. Not sure if either magazine
articles(s) is/are exactly what you're looking for, but thought I'd mention
them.
L8r,
Paul
P.S. Jesse - thanks for the Ditzie cartoon on the back of your order-envelope
(Yes, an original illo. folks!) :)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 11:03:56 -0600
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)
Subject: Re: Info request re: "Rim" and another cover!
he he, it's good to be the boss. Well, as long as the mayor's not around.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Trevor, Peter
Subject: RE: Info request re: "Rim" and another cover!
>
>From memory (since I'm at work and my employer frowns on me
>having my entire Traveller collection in the office) ...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 17:01:52 -0000
From: Matt Bond
Subject: RE: Ancients
> -----Original Message-----
> From: john hamilton [mailto:johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 4:12 PM
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: Re: Ancients
>
>
> The main error in this debate is simply that millions
> of scientists on thousands of planets couldn't come up
> with a theory with so much clues.And for a science
> situation there is an abundance of clues.
> The main argument against it is simply canon.And canon
> is simply a plot device,not something 100% logicaly(or
> even 25%)
But millions of scientist, using such conflicting evidence, and the fact
that communication lags hinder exchange of ideas, and political borders
leave many sites unavailable for study, will come up with hundreds, if
not thousands of theories as to who the ancients were. None of them are
provable.
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 17:28:40 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Sorry for not chaning the subject line(was:Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2073)
At 20:05 15.03.00 +0100, Ingo Heinscher wrote:
>At 16:27 14.03.00 -0800, James W. Brewer wrote:
>
>>I've ran a long range survey mission Rimward using T4, set during the Rim
>>War. The idea is to contact colonies planted by the Terran Confederation
>>during the wars with the Villani.
>
>"Villaini"? Our friends at the Ministry of Truth will love that one!
>;-)
Oops. Fogot to change the subject line to something more readable. I
apologize.
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 09:14:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
Glenn Goffin writes:
> >From: Anthony Jackson
>
> >And you think this will be difficult? Yes, they _will_ have
> >telepaths who are 'twisted' in exacly that way.
>
> Remember, twisted telepaths, like twisted personnel in general,
> are made, not born. Well, some are born, I suppose, but you
> can't count on it, so you should learn to make them.
Like most nature/nurture things, the jury is still out on this one. There's
almost certainly people with more of an inclination in this direction than
others.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 16:32:40 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Re: Info request re: "Rim" and another cover!
At 16:19 16.03.00, you wrote:
>Morning all!
>
>Yesterday I accepted the offer from SJG to do the cover for "Rim of Fire".
>Here's the info I need. Since the cover is going to show Earth, and a
>starport in orbit around it (as well as a LOT of in-system traffic), has
>there ever been any published mention and / or illustrations of the main
>Earth starport?
Travellers Digest 12 or 13, i think. Don´t know which because i dont own
that...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 10:48:14 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Ancient research
john hamilton wrote:
>
> The thinking error in most argument is simply
> A the droyne didn't start from scratch.They already
> had established tech and thus standards.And
> those,exspecially for minor things like a keyboard
> ,don't change.(Do you really think a fork in the Alpha
> Centaury colony in 4000 A. D. would look that
> different from your forks)
There are significant differences between forks and keyboards.
And if I sit down to a meal in the AC colony in 4000 AD there might be
just a pair of sticks there on the left side of my plate...;-)
More to the point, the QWERTY keyboard, while a standard for around a
century, in most English speaking countries, has distinct efficiency and
and health related problems. It was originally designed to place
commonly accessed characters away from each other to keep the typewriter
from jamming.
A chording keyboard with 4 or 5 keys per side is far more efficient,
since it doesn't _ever_ require you to move your fingers from their
'home' positions.
RL experiences have shown that people pick up a chording keyboard about
as fast as they pick up a standard QWERTY one.
Finally you have a typical late 20th Century
viewpoint that something that's been around for a mere century is
anywhere near becoming a standard.
In point of fact, the use of keyboards as input devices may well be a
passing phase, necessitated by the limited computing power offered us by
our primitive computing devices.
YOU may well feel that a keyboard is the most efficient means of
entering data into a computer, but that's likely because we're barely
past crude character-only output devices. There are other input modes
that show promise, and with increased computing power are quite doable.
Anyone who's been fortunate to use a Newton 2000 (damn you for killing
Newton, Steve Jobs!!!) has a taste of what decent handwriting
recognition is. Your text is converted to type as fast as you can write
it, and with a little time for the thing to adapt to your style, can
decipher just about any scrawl.
A pen is useful for far more than writing, in that it can instantly be
converted to a graphics input device, a control device, and (with the
proper stylus) a deadly Ninja killing tool ;-)
Voice control is another option rapidly becoming real. While I do feel
it's unlikely to be the main control means for all personal computing
uses (John Dvorak has a wonderful example: go postal, run through the
cubes shouting "Format C colon Yes!" ;-), for a large number of control
tasks a voice controller would be ideal.
"Microwave, heat at 60 percent for 5 minutes" Beeep!
"Lower the temperature in this room a few degrees"
"Television to Showtime"
You would end up with devices with only a small opening for a microphone
as the only visible control.
Or consider this: IPv6, next generation IP allows IP addressing in the
_trillions_ (4.29e9, to be exact), enabling you to put an IP address on
every appliance in your house.
The only input to your microwave is the ethernet cable in the back.
Better yet, there _is_ no input. There's an internal Airport reciever
card.
You put something in your microwave, close the door and say "Microwave,
heat at 60 percent for 5 minutes" Beeep!
The house systems controller has microphones thoughout, keyed to your
voice, so that the microwave doesn't even need a microphone.
Now. drop an ancient Egyptian into a house like this.
THAT'S what dealing with Ancient devices is like.
_We_ are conditioned to using keyboards for input because options simply
haven't existed.
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 18:56:38 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS...
John Hamilton
>Well,I make a short, ironic ,humorous OT post full of
>intentional bad grammar and spelling,and people think
>I'm trying to insult them.Sorry,but aren't you taking
>this thing too serious?
It takes a cleverer writer than you to bring off intentional bad grammar
and spelling. speaking purely for myself, my reaction to your bad grammar
and spelling is a tendency to blip right over most of what you write.
Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"Facts are stubborn things, but not half so stubborn as fallacies."
- Stella Maynard in "Anne of the Island"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 19:02:39 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen
Subject: Re: Droyne
Peter Newman writes:
>"William F. Hostman" wrote
>
>>>>There were only 421 Ancients. Yaskodray and his twenty kids, each of whom
>>>>had 20 kids of their own.
>
>>>"about 20 kids each". 421 is too exact a number.
>
>>Either 18 or 24 each would be more realistic, since it states in AM5 that
>>clutches are in lots of 6.
>
>Just because Droyne come in clutches of 6 does not necessarily
>mean that Ancients came in clutches of 6 - Grandfather was a
>mutant after all. Moreover we don't know that Grandfather had
>his children the old fashioned way Grandfather could have
>introduced some technology into the process.
I've always assumed that he cloned himself, but I just checked "Secrets of
the Ancients" and it just says that he had (exactly) 20 children and that
each of them have about 20 each. This must be regarded as an unsolved
mystery. If he was getting them the oldfashioned way, why 20 instead of
18 or 24? If he was cloning, why stop after 20 and let his children have
the rest; why not just have 400 clones himself and be done with it?
Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
events based on the individual situation."
_76 Patrons_, p. 8
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 19:10:46 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen
Subject: Re: Parahumans...
John Hamilton writes:
>- --- Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>Actually, according to AM5 the connection between the Droyne and the
>>Ancients (though presumably not the exact details) were discovered
>>"300 years ago". My take is that the date is 790.
>
>According that the Artifacts of the A. are designed for Droyne,the
>connection had to occur the instant both when both are known.That
>simply cannot take centuries.
Presumably the Ancients also made devices for humans and Vargr since they
used both as servants. If they used any other races, they would also make
devices for them. And the vast majority of Ancients artifacts are garbage.
Only 1 in a 1000 is a recognizable device.
Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
events based on the individual situation."
_76 Patrons_, p. 8
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 10:09:07 -0800
From: Russell Bornschlegel
Subject: Single malt scotch debates (was Re: Laphroaig)
MJ Dougherty wrote:
>
> Heretics! Glen Livet is the finest. All others pale by comparison.
>
> Esp Laphroaig, which tastes remarkably like the back of a fireplace....
Actually, Jackson's tasting notes, IIRC, say "hint of diesel fuel."
Which is not a bad thing, IMO. :)
Anyway, anyone who's going to limit themselves to one SMS on the basis
that it's "the finest" is missing out (again, this is IMO).
Some days you want to feel like you're drinking diesel fuel. Some
days you want to suck down a little brine, so you reach for the
Talisker.
Then there's the days when you want people to ask "what in Ghod's
name is that vile black fluid?" For this reason, and this reason
only, except for the occasional arcane ritual requiring vile black
fluid, we keep a bottle of Loch Dhu in the house.
- -Russell B
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 07:19:21 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: Galanglic character set
At 0:21 -0500 16/3/00, "Chris Seamans" wrote:
> > Any one out there know where I can get a windows font set for the
> > galanglic character set (that stuff that's on all of Jesse's art)? I went
> > around the ring without finding any.
>
>Hey Jason, it's not Galanglic it's Bilanidin which was originally intended
>to be a Vilani "phonetic alphabet". In the time since it was released it has
>become the "de facto" Traveller funky script.
>
>I'm not sure if I currently have a copy on my harddrive, although I suspect
>that several list members have a copy. If you have no luck by Friday drop me
>an email and I'll see if I can find you a copy on my computer.
IIRC it is at http://www.unclebear.com/ with a load of other sfrpg
and film fonts.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2096
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Traveller-digest Thursday, March 16 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2097
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Laphroaig
Re: Military types vs 7th graders TML # 2083
Re: TOP 4 REASONS...
Re: Jump drive activation inside a gravitational field
Re: Parahumans and Solomani
Re: ACQ
Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
Re: Ancient research
Re: Ancients
Re: Laphroaig
Re: Famille Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
Re: Re Rules vs Setting(long)
Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLERWENT DOWN)
Re: TL
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
RE: Jump drive activation inside a gravitational field
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2078
Re: Darkover for Traveller
Re: Info request re: "Rim" and another cover!
Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.
Re: TOP 4 REASONS...
Re: Single malt scotch debates (was Re: Laphroaig)
RE: Laphroaig
RE: Ancients
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:16:28 -0600
From: "Pat Connaughton"
Subject: Re: Laphroaig
Here! Here!
Top Single Malts:
1. Laphroaig
2. Dalas Dhu (30 yr) (sp?)
3. Glemorangie (25 yr)
4. Lagavulan
5. Abelour (15yr)
6. Oban
7. Balvenie
8. Dalmour (sp?)
There are other choice possible but these are the right ones.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: MJ Dougherty
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 5:57 AM
Subject: Laphroaig
> Heretics! Glen Livet is the finest. All others pale by comparison.
>
> Esp Laphroaig, which tastes remarkably like the back of a fireplace....
>
> MJD
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:11:23 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Military types vs 7th graders TML # 2083
On 03/16/00 at 11:31 PM, "Rupert Boleyn" said:
>> Ok.... I'll bite how does one rate what grade level a piece of
>> writing is at?
There are algorithms based on word and sentence lengths and
vocabulary choice.
>By whether or not officers can read it :)
That's another way.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 10:23:08 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS...
- --- Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
> John Hamilton
>
> >Well,I make a short, ironic ,humorous OT post full
> of
> >intentional bad grammar and spelling,and people
> think
> >I'm trying to insult them.Sorry,but aren't you
> taking
> >this thing too serious?
>
> It takes a cleverer writer than you to bring off
> intentional bad grammar
> and spelling.
The problem lies more with rather dull people who on
the other hand think that they are very clever but are
unable to understand anything that isn't served on a
tablet to them.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 11:23:45 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Jump drive activation inside a gravitational field
Trevor, Peter wrote:
>
> My take on this is posted in detail at ...
>
> http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen/sol/traveller/jump.html
>
> ... (last time this came up some TML members suggested replacing
> gravity with tidal force, just haven't gotten round to writting
> that up yet).
Ahh, I remember that...turns out that the tidal flux (the rate of tidal
force change) hit some reasonably round number right about at 100
diameters for most earth-density masses.
Seemed a very nice explanation to me.
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 08:53:28
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Parahumans and Solomani
At 08:30 AM 3/16/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>However, those are exeptions. On Vland, everything is
>incompatible to humans.
No, then they would have died off in a generation. Vland is what First In
describes as Partially Compatible (FI p68)
"Humans can eat some native foods, possibly after considerable effort in
processing or cooking them. They can't really wholly on native foods
without developing various deficiency diseases. Diseases will not cross
over, although the local equivalent of decay bacteria can still deal with
dead Terran organisms."
Obviously, there were enough vitamin sources on Vland to offset the threat
of things like scurvy and beri-beri. That, and the ritual cannibalism they
had to practise.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 08:57:21
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: ACQ
At 11:10 AM 3/16/2000 +1000, you wrote:
>ps: I nearly forgot! Does ACQ handle vehicles, robots, and non-thrown
>animals?
A little, no, yes.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 08:55:38
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani
At 06:14 PM 3/15/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>>From: Anthony Jackson
>
>>And you think this will be difficult? Yes, they _will_ have
>>telepaths who are 'twisted' in exacly that way.
>
>Remember, twisted telepaths, like twisted personnel in general,
>are made, not born. Well, some are born, I suppose, but you
>can't count on it, so you should learn to make them.
Al Bester, SS Polezi, err... PsiCorps
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 09:16:30
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Ancient research
At 08:28 AM 3/16/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>A: The Droyne didn't start from scratch. They already
>had established tech and thus standards. And
>those, exspecially for minor things like a keyboard,
>don't change.
Sorry, but according to the primary sources, the Ancients did reinvent
everthing from the ground up, at every site they occupied. Even the most
basic things were changed. One place might use screws, the next molecular
glue, the next carefully fitted shapes... and that's just to hold two
things together.
Imagine each of Yaskodray's progeny as mad scientists, and complete
monomaniacs. They all did things their way.
>Do you really think a fork in the Alpha
>Centaury colony in 4000 A.D. would look that
>different from your forks?
If you took a fork back to 1300 AD nobody would know what to do with it.
They hadn't been invented yet. You seem to have a bad case of thinking that
what we have is the pinnicle of possible achievement.
Archeology is filled with classic cases of poor scientists letting their
pre-concieved notions get in the way of the evidence.
>B: A Droyne hand (or head, or whatever...) stays the same. So
>the devices will have some similarities by default. And
>the human and vargr helpers are no argument: You will
>see who was the boss.
Really? How? What about a small station where the supervisor was human? The
small ancient Vargr breding facility in "A Visit to Antiquity" where
everything was optimized for prot-Vargr?
>Maybe a roman servus lived better than a roman
>farmer,but compared to his boss......?
And is the boss's house was the target of the near-c rock?
You can't seem to shake you early 21-century expectation about what luxury
consists of. These are aliens. Superintelligent, immortal, and in the end
genocidal aliens. You can't expect to find a four poster bed and shag
carpeting in Yaskodray's bedroom.
I once toured a castle in Japan, and part of the tour was the nobleman's
bedroom. Four thin papaer walls (out of derence to Kiri, I won't mangle the
Japanese), a wooden pallet with a *thin* mattress, and a wooden block for a
pillow.
I slept better in basic training! And this man was the Lord and Master of
all the lands withing sight! Without the guide, I would have never labeled
this as a noble's residence. And that was the quarters of another human.
Bruce, I believe made a very good point. How do we know that the Ancients
didn't let their servants use the TL-21-34 toys to make themselves Kings of
the Earth in their spare time? Pull one of my British ancestors up from
the time of the Norman invasion, and I live like a God. No slop buckets, my
food doesn't rot, I don't share my bed with a menagerie.. He'd think that I
had to be some sort of great king! When actually I'm a peon, second class.
That's the problem you deal with looking at the ancients.
About keyboards.. last night, I went to a weekly gathering of SF fans.
people were exchanging lots of information. Everybody was using palm
computers, not a keyboard in sight.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 09:25:35
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Ancients
At 08:12 AM 3/16/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>The main error in this debate is simply that millions
>of scientists on thousands of planets couldn't come up
>with a theory with so much clues.And for a science
>situation there is an abundance of clues.
What clues? The Ancients site found are usually 300,000 year old craters
with *maybe* an enigmatic piece of equipment or two left lying around. The
site in Twilight's Peak was by far the best preserved site ever found.
>The main argument against it is simply canon.And canon
>is simply a plot device,not something 100% logicaly(or
>even 25%)
You aren't reading what we are writing. We've pointed out several times the
difficulties in identifying artifacts from a higher TL.
In Harry Turtledove's _Worldwar_, which concerns an alien race invading
Earth during WWII, there's a scene that brilliantly illustrates the problem.
The Race comes to Earth with about our level of tech. They use jets,
advanced tanks, etc. In one scene, a group of British radar techs finally
get ahold of a fairly intact Race fighter. Now they can see how the Race's
incredible radar works, and start putting it into the RAF birds.
They pry open the nose, take a look at all the circuit boards. One person
asks, "where are the vacuum tubes?" They lacked the technological baseline
to understand the workings of what they saw.
You keep focusing on keyboards. Why use them? touch screens,
voice-recognition, telepathic interfaces, artificial intelligences that
understand your wishes.. all of these would be far more efficient.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
There was once a time when the church controlled the government.
The laws of the church were the laws of the land. Belief in God
was strong, teachings of the church were rarely questioned.
This time was called The Dark Ages.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 10:11:41
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Laphroaig
At 08:01 AM 3/16/2000 -0500, you wrote:
Feh. Real Scouts drink 307 Ale.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 09:35:12
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Famille Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
At 06:24 PM 3/15/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>It is absolutely wonderful sailing, and, as a lawyer, I don't
>worry about the Great Whites -- professional courtesy and all
>that, you know.
Thet rarely come into the Bay itself, the salinity is too low anmd their
favorite meal, s/u/r/f/e/r/s seals, are out in the ocean proper.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 10:16:08
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Re Rules vs Setting(long)
At 02:51 AM 3/16/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>Full Matel Jacket.
A new line of assault gear and kevlar body armor for Barbie?
(Great post by the way..)
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 10:18:26
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLERWENT DOWN)
At 05:00 PM 3/15/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>In returen we'll tell you what a "high can of corn" is, when there are
"ducks on the pond", what an "ice-cream cone" is, why a "frozen rope" is
often no better than a "seeing eye grounder", and how to "turn on a slider"
and "jack a tater" out of the yard. ;->
"He hit the ball *real* hard."
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 10:22:13
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: TL
At 12:41 AM 3/16/2000 -0000, you wrote:
>I've always taken TL to mean what is readily available in a large
>city/settlement, and can be locally produced/maintained. There is no reason
>why the king of a TL 2 world would not have a few ACRs among his retinue and
>an air/raft for his own use, but he'll need to buy new ones quite often as
>the maintenance base just doesn't exist.
I've always taken it as the locally maintainable level. What the world can
produce and support if star travel ceased.
>The issue of military equipment by TL (and the availability of higher tech
>level imports) is covered in GT Star Mercs, BTW.
GT Ground Forces addresses the problems of trying to build armies with a
higher than local TL.
- --
Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is that I am now a
perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague here is rapidly running out of
limbs!" - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 10:25:49
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
At 01:13 PM 3/16/2000 +1300, you wrote:
>> "For it's root, root, root for the home team.
>> if they don't win it's a shame."
>
>With synchronised strip dancing? I always wondered what the cheerleadrs
>were for (or is that American Football?)
No, the cheerleaders are football. The exist to give struggling strippers a
source of income they can tell Mom about.
The seventh inning stretch exists for the baseball grognards who need time
to update their stats, like how Barry Bonds bats on days when the Dow Jones
falls more than 20 points, and how he fares against left-handed red heads.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:27:17 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: RE: Jump drive activation inside a gravitational field
On 03/16/00 at 02:37 PM, "Trevor, Peter" said:
>To summarise (in MT terms): To jump while landed on a 1G planet is a
>"Formidable+2" task (ie. a Formidable task with a further 2 point
>penalty).
IMTU, it's a ROUTINE task to just *jump* from the surface of a 1G
planet. OTOH, to *successfully* jump from there is an IMPOSSIBLE
task. Where Impossible would, in MT terms, be about
Formidable+5.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 09:35:02 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2078
In mail you write:
>> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:44:10 PST
>> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>> Subject: Re: Back in the saddle
>>
>> In mail you write:
>>
>> > PPS First session went well. Using old Trav Journal freaky disease
> outbreak
>> > scenario re-set on a heavy metal exraction plant (ie Oil Refinary
> platform
>> > for a RW like-example) on a storm wracked (ie can't get off until break
> in
>> > the weather) water world.
>> >
>> > I is evil.
>> >
>> > PS I don't want no Heavy Metal Extraction cannot be done from water crap
> OR
>> > any supporting statements to back it up. I am science dumb, not proud of
> it
>> > but too stubborn to change.
>> >
>> > Leonard this means you.
>>
>> Would you be interested in some speculation about what sort of
>> conditions on-world would *make* heavy metal extraction from seawater
>> more practical? Some of the possibilities would make for interesting
>> background and hazards.
>>
>> On the other hand, they might also contradict stuff you've already told
>> players...
>>
>> - --
>> Leonard >
>
>
> N'kay hit me. World in question is Size 9, Atmosphere 9 and orbits a gas
> giant - consequently a lot of tidal stuff and said planet is storm
> racked. - Nasemin 3003 B98A422-B S Ni Wa 612 Im K2 V
>
> I have said that there are massive extractors set up in the path of a strong
> current which extracts the good'in then pumps it back into the current half
> a kay away.
See my post elsewhere. Best bet would be the volcanicly active planet
with acid rain and acid oceans. That fits with the tidal effects from
orbiting a gas gaint.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 09:41:52 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Darkover for Traveller
In mail you write:
> On 13 Mar 00, at 12:04, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
>
>> PS: Try justifying how you got to Darkover when you're part Asian (or
>> Black, for that matter, but that wasn't my prob...). Brown eyes are
>> "animal eyes"... all the Darkovans were of Celtic descent. I got my Irish
>> mama's skin but not her eyes (or her guts... ugh, milk!)
>
> What about the Drylanders? I think that's what they're called. Weren't
> they of Spanish decent? I seem to recall something like that from the
> story of the original landing (which I can't remember the name of). I'd
> be a lot clearer on this if it wasn't for the fact that I haven't read
> any Darkover material for about 10 years.
The Drytowners strike me as a more Arab/Moor type culture. The Comyn
are a mix of Spanish and Scots!
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 10:30:43 -0800
From: Russell Bornschlegel
Subject: Re: Info request re: "Rim" and another cover!
Jesse DeGraff wrote:
>
> Yesterday I accepted the offer from SJG to do the cover for "Rim of Fire".
> Here's the info I need. Since the cover is going to show Earth, and a
> starport in orbit around it (as well as a LOT of in-system traffic), has
> there ever been any published mention and / or illustrations of the main
> Earth starport?
Congrats, Jesse!
The only thing along these lines I can think of is that "Invasion
Earth" shows some down ports on the world map; that obviously doesn't
say anything about the orbital ports.
- -Russell B
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 10:33:21 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.
- --- Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
> John Hamilton writes:
>
> Presumably the Ancients also made devices for humans
> and Vargr since they
> used both as servants.
And since the origin of Vargr is clear,the difference
between servant and master tech should be easy to see.
If they used any other races,
> they would also make
> devices for them. And the vast majority of Ancients
> artifacts are garbage.
> Only 1 in a 1000 is a recognizable device.
Which is more than enough for modern science.Only
crackpot Institutes wouldn't come up with a suitable
research result concerning such an important question.
Exept perhaps Bob Jones University.Even the University
of Copenhagen would get some results(they have
recently discovered that the Earth isn't flat ,after all)
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:32:15 -0500
From: "Smith, Walter"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS...
john hamilton wrote:
>The problem lies more with rather dull people who on
>the other hand think that they are very clever but are
>unable to understand anything that isn't served on a
>tablet to them.
"Everyone else must be a bunch of idiots, none of them
realize how witty and insightful I am."
Doesn't Occam's Razor hurt when you slide down the blade
of it like that?
The defense of bad grammar is a lost cause around here,
John. C'mon, let's get back to believability of 3I
xenoarchaeology, it's more fun!
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:41:42 -0600
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)
Subject: Re: Single malt scotch debates (was Re: Laphroaig)
Alas, are there no Korbel afficianados?
- -----Original Message-----
From: Russell Bornschlegel
Subject: Single malt scotch debates (was Re: Laphroaig)
>MJ Dougherty wrote:
>>
>> Heretics! Glen Livet is the finest. All others pale by comparison.
>>
>> Esp Laphroaig, which tastes remarkably like the back of a fireplace....
>
>Actually, Jackson's tasting notes, IIRC, say "hint of diesel fuel."
>
>Which is not a bad thing, IMO. :)
>
>Anyway, anyone who's going to limit themselves to one SMS on the basis
>that it's "the finest" is missing out (again, this is IMO).
>
>Some days you want to feel like you're drinking diesel fuel. Some
>days you want to suck down a little brine, so you reach for the
>Talisker.
>
>Then there's the days when you want people to ask "what in Ghod's
>name is that vile black fluid?" For this reason, and this reason
>only, except for the occasional arcane ritual requiring vile black
>fluid, we keep a bottle of Loch Dhu in the house.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 11:37:49 -0700
From: Jason Postma
Subject: RE: Laphroaig
Looks like I've got a ready-made list of world names for the
Scotts-colonized subsector I'm designing. Thanks guys.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Pat Connaughton [mailto:pconn@i1.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 11:16 AM
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject: Re: Laphroaig
Here! Here!
Top Single Malts:
1. Laphroaig
2. Dalas Dhu (30 yr) (sp?)
3. Glemorangie (25 yr)
4. Lagavulan
5. Abelour (15yr)
6. Oban
7. Balvenie
8. Dalmour (sp?)
There are other choice possible but these are the right ones.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: MJ Dougherty
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 5:57 AM
Subject: Laphroaig
> Heretics! Glen Livet is the finest. All others pale by comparison.
>
> Esp Laphroaig, which tastes remarkably like the back of a fireplace....
>
> MJD
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 10:38:39 -0800 (PST)
From: john hamilton
Subject: RE: Ancients
- --- Matt Bond wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: john hamilton
> [mailto:johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 4:12 PM
> > To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> > Subject: Re: Ancients
> >
> >
> > The main error in this debate is simply that
> millions
> > of scientists on thousands of planets couldn't
> come up
> > with a theory with so much clues.And for a science
> > situation there is an abundance of clues.
> > The main argument against it is simply canon.And
> canon
> > is simply a plot device,not something 100%
> logicaly(or
> > even 25%)
>
> But millions of scientist, using such conflicting
> evidence, and the fact
> that communication lags hinder exchange of ideas,
> and political borders
> leave many sites unavailable for study, will come up
> with hundreds, if
> not thousands of theories
Hardly.After all,it would boil down to some humanoids
and Droyne.
And the main weak spot is :If that's true,how could it
be that the connection was made after all,with
thousands of unprovable theories?
(well,the answer is of course "canon")
as to who the ancients
> were. None of them are
> provable.
It's simply a piece of criminology.Just think what
results police scientist get by reconstructing events.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2097
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Traveller-digest Thursday, March 16 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2098
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Galanglic character set
RE: Re Rules vs Setting(long)
Ebay has a use...
Re: Weather Control
Re: Familiem Spofulum (was Re: Droyne)
Re: Famile Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
re: Ancients
RE: Ancients
Re: Sword world names [long]
Re: Best rules system
Re: Best rules system
Re: Best rules system
Re: Sworld world names?
RE: Sworld world names?
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
Re: The sad saga of the T4 starship rules.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:39:52 -0600
From: Stormhound
Subject: Re: Galanglic character set
SD Mooney wrote:
> IIRC it is at http://www.unclebear.com/ with a load of other sfrpg
> and film fonts.
Looks like they've moved things around a bit...this page will get you started
finding all sorts of fonts: http://www.unclebear.com/fonts/index.html
- --
Stormhound
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:43:26 -0600
From: "Moody, Danny M."
Subject: RE: Re Rules vs Setting(long)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Douglas E. Berry [mailto:gridlore@pop.mindspring.com]
>
> At 02:51 AM 3/16/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>
> >Full Matel Jacket.
>
> A new line of assault gear and kevlar body armor for Barbie?
You think you make a funny, huh? Well, point your browser to:
http://home.flash.net/~jimbob1/gij01.htm
and specifically:
http://home.flash.net/~jimbob1/gij32.htm
http://home.flash.net/~jimbob1/gij19.htm
http://home.flash.net/~jimbob1/gij10.htm
Just the thing for those 1/6th scale ACQ games. :-)
vargr1 UPP-8D9B85
- ---------------------------- Omnia dicta fortiora, si dicta latina.
Meyers-Briggs personality type: ENTJ vargr1@jcn1*com
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with." dmoody@bridge*com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 18:32:04 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Ebay has a use...
At 10:10 +0000 16/3/00, and on another forum (SF Consim) Walt Smith wrote:
Discussing eBay and the values quoted for games...
>Valamir wrote:
> >Personally I love seeing games I own go for wads of cash...sometimes I
> >print out the final bids and file them away with my Homeowners insurance.
> >They give you replacement cost after all.
>Valamir, that is the best idea I've seen on a mailing list in weeks.
>Thank you.
I agree - we all know how expensive some of the collectables are, so
why not use this idea to make sure your insurance is covered?
Dom (who agrees with Walt and his vote of thanks)
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 18:26:36 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: Weather Control
At 10:17 -0500 16/3/00, Bruce Johnson wrote:
> > This is like the Butterfly flapping it's wings in the Amazon and causing
> > a Tornadoe to destroy a house in Oklahoma. But, what if that Butterfly
> > did not flap it's wings?
>The Tornado skips the house and wipes out three nearby mobile homes.
>
>But then, the Oklahoma Air National Guard finally scrambles some F-16's,
>shoots it down, and we declare war on Britain again. ;-P
Damn time zones! That was *my* joke! ;-)
Of course, it could be a German or an Italian Tornado...
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 18:22:08 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: Familiem Spofulum (was Re: Droyne)
At 4:36 -0500 16/3/00, Peter Newman wrote:
>Roderick Darroch Elliott wrote
>
>[Same statement after the PR department rewrites it:]
>
>
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 18:19:14 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
At 4:36 -0500 16/3/00, "Katharine Whitchurch"
wrote:
>Thats the Man-Portable Plasma Cannon, right ? The "recoil damping is not
>supported" design ... I'll forward anything I get back to you. Time to get
>BITS to release a full Famile Spofulam catalogue, I think.
I'd like to put another FS catalogue out at BITS if you guys are
interested. I would also like an FS write up (Library data style) and
some info on the Divisions. Stats for Ditzie, Hengabar? Or piccies? I
wouldn't mind some write ups of groups like the ISBA, Gridlore and
others as the opposition too.
Contact me off list if you're interested.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:51:12 -0500
From: "Smith, Walter"
Subject: re: Ancients
john hamilton wrote:
>Hardly.After all,it would boil down to some humanoids
>and Droyne.
And some medium-sized insectoids. And some amorphous semi-liquid
life forms. And some sentient fungus.
Oops, sorry, I was looking at Nyarlothotep, not Yaskodray...
Still, look at it this way: evey Grandkid was a superintelligent
psionic. What if all the "Droyne" tools were psionically operated,
and the only physically operated tools were those made for human,
vargr and robot hands? The evidence would show that humans worked
at the site, and there would be no evidence that the humans
*didn't* run the place. If you can't activate a featureless black
cube, then you don't know if it's furniture, art, or the unknown
boss's super computer...either way, you have no evidence that the
boss was anything at all.
john again
>And the main weak spot is :If that's true,how could it
>be that the connection was made after all,with
>thousands of unprovable theories?
>(well,the answer is of course "canon")
IIRC, the connection *wasn't* strongly made until the 1100's,
when some compelling evidence (Twilight's Peak, Secret of the
Ancients) came along.
I say it was difficult, but eventually happened. You seem to
think that if it could have happened, it would have happened
thousands of years earlier than it did. Do you also contend
that ice-age man had nuclear energy? It was difficult, but
think about it, they had thousands of years to work on it
by then...
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 10:52:01 -0800
From: "Thing"
Subject: RE: Ancients
On Thursday, March 16, 2000 9:02 AM
Matt Bond said,
> But millions of scientist, using such conflicting evidence, and the
fact
> that communication lags hinder exchange of ideas, and political
borders
> leave many sites unavailable for study, will come up with hundreds, if
> not thousands of theories as to who the ancients were.
And there is a great tendency for people to reject any data that does
not fit the current theory until there is an overwhelming amount of
evidence. Like the scene in Stargate where Doctor Jackson tells people
that he thinks the Egyptians didn't build the pyramids.
Also it is of importance for Archeologists to have conflicting theories
for the talk show circuit ala Hitchhikers.
G.D.D.
Thing under the stairs,
Minion of Shechemist & GothBunny,
Grand Master of the Electron Flow.
==================================
"You know how stupid people are? Think of how stupid the *average*
person is. Now keep in mind, half of 'em are stupider than
*that*." -George Carlin
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 19:53:56 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen
Subject: Re: Sword world names [long]
Glenn Goffin writes:
>>what are the other Sword World's named after?? Just curious...:)
>
>Gram is a unit of weight, and was the name of a very small sword
>owned by a Dwarven king. It was said to weigh its name.
From my list of sword names:
*Gram Given by Odin to Sigmund, Volsung's son. It broke many years
later against Odin's spear. It was reforged and wielded by
Sigmund's son Sigurd Fafnersbane.
Gram (Grief), one of the swords of Siegfried.
Here's the rest of the list. As usually when I repost something, I apologise
to the Old Hands. I think it has been long enough to be justifiable, though.
- -----------
Here is a list of sword names with a short note about each. An '*' denotes a
name used for one of the Traveller universe Sword Worlds. I found a lot of
sword names in _The Dictionary of Phrase and Fable_ by E. Cobham Brewer. A lot
of the owners are unknown to me, so don't ask me who Frithiof or Hieme are.
Al Battar ('The Beater'), one of Mahomet's swords.
*Anduril Sword of Aragorn, reforged from the shards of Narsil.
Angurva ('Stream of Anguish), Frithiof's sword.
Aroundight The sword of Launcelot of the Lake.
Balisarda Rogero's sword, made by a sorceress.
Balmung One of the swords of Siegfried, made by Wieland, ``the divine
blacksmith.''
Baptism One of the swords of Strong-i'-the-Arm, which took Ansias
three years to make.
*Beater Orcish name for Glamdring.
*Biter Orcish name for Orcrist.
Blutgang ('Blood-fetcher'), Hieme's sword.
Brinnig (Flaming), Hildebrand's sword.
*Caladbolg Cuchulainn's sword?
Caliburn Another name for Excalibur.
Chrysaor (sword of gold, i.e. as good as gold). Artegal's sword.
*Colada El Cid's sword?
Corrougue Otuel's sword.
Courtain (Short sword), one of the swords of Ogier the Dane, which
took Munifican three years to make. Also spelled Curtana.
Crocea Mors (Yellow Death), Caesar's sword.
Curtana (Short sword) Sword of Edward the Confessor, one of the royal
swords of England, used in the coronation ceremony. Mentioned
by Saxo. Believed to have belonged to Tristam. Also an alter-
nate spelling for Courtain.
Curtana One of Piper's Sword Worlds.
Dainslaf Sword I found somewhere but threw away the reference to :-(.
Dhu' l Fakâr (The Trenchant), Mahomet's scimitar.
Dragvendel Sword I found somewhere but threw away the reference to :-(.
*Durendal Also spelled Durandal or Durandan. Roland's sword, which took
Munifican three years to make. (Presently in the care of The
Phantom ;-).
Durandan or (The Inflexible), Orlando's sword.
Durandana
*Dyrnwyn The sword of Rhydderch the Generous. One of the thirteen
treasures of the Island of Britain.
*Enos World in the Sword Worlds subsector. May or may not be a sword
name.
*Excalibur Magic sword belonging to Arthur. Brewer claims it is the Sword
in the Stone (_Ex cal[ce] liber[are]_ = to liberate from the
stone.) GURPS Camelot claims it is the sword given to Arthur
by the Lady of the Lake and that The Sword in the Stone is
named Galatine. Excalibur is presently in the care of The
Phantom ;-)
Flamberge (or Floberge (2 syl., the flame-cutter), one of Charlemagne's
swords, and also the sword of Rinaldo, which took Gallas three
years to make. Also the generic name for a particular kind of
two-handed sword. Charlemagne's other sword Joyeuse is
supposedly a flamberge.
Flamborge The sword of Maugis or Malagigi, made by Wieland, ``the divine
blacksmith.''
Flammarion Imperial planet in Sword Worlds Subsector. Not necessarily a
sword name.
Florence One of the swords of Strong-i'-the-Arm, which took Ansias
three years to make.
Fusberta Joyosa Another name for Joyeuse.
Galatine The Sword in the Stone. Drawn from the stone by Arthur and
later given to Gawaine as a badge of office.
Glamdring The sword of Gandalf.
Glorious Oliver's sword, which hacked to pieces the nine swords made by
Ansias, Galas, and Munifican.
Graban (The Grave-digger), one of the swords of Strong-i'-the-Arm,
which took Ansias three years to make.
Greysteel The sword of Koll the Thrall.
Grasscutter Another name for _Kusanagi-no-Tsurugi_.
Gunn Imperial planet in Sword Worlds Subsector. Not necessarily a
sword name.
Haulteclere One of Piper's Sword Worlds.
Haute-claire (Very Bright), both Closamont's and Oliver's swords
were so called. Closamont's sword took Gallas three years to
make.
Halef (The Deadly), one of Mahomet's swords.
*Hofud According to L. Sprague de Camp and Fletcher Pratt this is
the name of Freyr's sword that he gives to Skirnir. Freyr's
sword is mentioned in every book about Norse mythology I've
seen, but _The Incompleat Enchanter_ is the only place I've
seen it named. According to GURPS:Vikings it is _Heimdal's_
sword.
Hothing Agrar's sword. Mentioned by Saxo.
*Hrunting Said to be the best of all swords. Lent to Beovulf by Ufred
and used in the fight with Grendel's mother.
Huiting One of Ragnald of Norway's swords (the other is Lyusing).
Mentioned by Saxo.
Isenfang Sword I found somewhere but threw away the reference to :-(.
*Joyeuse (Joyous), one of Charlemagne's swords, which took Gallas
three years to make. It is a flamberge (kind of two-handed
sword).
Kusanagi-no- "The Grasscutting Sword", the sword given by the KAMI to the
Tsurugi rightful emperor of Japan.
Laevateinn The Wounding Wand. Forged with runes by Loki at the gates of
Niflheim.
Lauf or Leaf Bearce's sword. Mentioned by Saxo.
Lyusing One of Ragnald of Norway's swords (the other is Huiting).
Mentioned by Saxo.
Logthe Ole Siwardsson's sword.
Medham (The Keen), one of Mahomet's swords
Merveilleuse (The Marvellous), Doolin's sword.
Mimming Magic sword obtained by the hero Hadding on a journey to the
underworld.
Mimung The sword that Wittich lent Siegfried.
Mistelten In one story about Balder's death he is killed by a magic
sword called Mistelten (Mistletoe) wielded by Mimming, rather
than shot by Hoder with an arrow made of Misteltoe.
Morglay (mor-glaif (big glaive)), the sword of Sir Bevis of
Southampton.
Nagelring (Nail-ring). Dietrich's sword.
*Narsil The sword of Elendil, broken in his fight with Sauron.
Nothung Siegfried's sword?
*Orcrist The sword of Thorin Oakenshield.
Philippan The sword of Marc Antony.
Quern-biter (Foot-breadth), both Haco I. and Thoralf Skolinson had a
sword so called.
Sacho Eck's sword.
*Sacnoth Leothric's sword from Dunsany's "The Fortress Unvanquishable,
Save for Sacnoth".
Sansamha Haroun-al-Raschid's sword.
Sanglamore (the big bloody glaive), Braggadochio's sword.
Sauvagine (s syl., the relentless), one of the swords of Ogier the Dane,
which took Munifican three years to make.
Schrit or Schritt (? the lopper), Biterolf's sword.
Sequence Alternate name for Galatine.
Skraep or Belonged to the legendary Danish hero-king Vermund. Wielded
Screp by Vermund's son Uffe the Meek in a duel with the son of a
rival king and one of his henchmen for the Danish throne.
Mentioned by Saxo.
Snyrtir Bearce's sword. Mentioned by Saxo.
*Sting Long knife wielded by Bilbo Baggins, Frodo Baggins, and Sam
Gamgee.
Svavasorm Sword I found somewhere but threw away the reference to :-(.
Tizon or Tizona (the poker), One of the favorite swords of El Cid,
taken by him from King Bucar. His other favorite sword was
Colada. Tizon was buried with him.
Tranchera (the trenchant), Agricane's sword.
*Tyrfing Forged by two dwarfs for Svafrlami. Captured by Arngrim who
killed Svarflami with it. Wielded by Arngrim's som Angantyr
and buried with him. Given by the dead Angantyr to his
daughter Hervor. Used by Hervor's son Heidrek to kill his
brother Angantyr. Later wielded by Heidrek's son, yet
another Angantyr.
Waske (2 syl.), Iring's sword.
Welsung Both Dietlieb and Sintram had a sword so called.
Zuflagar Ali's sword.
Piper's List (These are the names of Sword Worlds named by Piper in his book
_Space Viking_):
Excalibur, Morglay, Flamberge, Durendal, Gram, Joyeuse, Haulteclere, Curtana.
- ----------
Any corrections and additions are welcome, provided there are references.
Personally I'm most interested in mythical, legendary, and historical
swords, not so much in modern day fiction.
Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
events based on the individual situation."
_76 Patrons_, p. 8
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 10:53:30 -0800
From: "Jesse LaBranche"
Subject: Re: Best rules system
Jason Postma wrote:
> My own opinion as to the best rules system? Unimportant. No one really
> cares and I couldn't convince some one who already had a different opinion
> from my own.
With all due respect Jason, your own opinion of what is the best system
was the ONLY part of the whole discussion that is important. I started this
thread asking what people felt was the best because I have not formed an
opinion and wanted to get a "feel" for the different versions.
I couldn't care less whether you consider GT a full version or half
version.
I want to know what you think of it- how good is it in relation to other
Traveller
products, etc.
Later
Jesse.
vanquer@email.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 10:58:00 -0800
From: "Jesse LaBranche"
Subject: Re: Best rules system
> Actually, it's true that 'GURPS Traveller' is not a complete edition of
traveller. To be a complete edition of traveller, rules would have to
> be part of the GT product, and they aren't -- the basic rules are in a
> product (GURPS Basic) which is not a part of the GT line. If GURPS Lite
> had been included in GT you could call it a complete edition of traveller,
> however.
How difficult would it be to use GT's supplements with other versions
of Traveller? Which version is it the MOST compatible with?
Later.
Jesse.
vanquer@email.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 11:04:32 -0800
From: "Jesse LaBranche"
Subject: Re: Best rules system
> > Folks, let's not fight another war over this, okay?
> > It seems that when we start talking about what the "best rules
> > system" we seem unable to stay civil and agree to disagree. I wish
> > that wasn't the case, because I'd love to see some strong, even
> > opinionated, reviews of the various versions, but we don't need
> > another flame war in here.
> How was that a flame? It seemed like a perfectly well-reasoned nitpick to
me. Not that such nitpicks are particular necessary, of course ;)
> However, as questions of 'best' tend to be matters of taste, I think
you're
> doomed to flame wars on the topic.
I think that everyone can completely avoid a "flame war" simply
by stating their own opinions (which is what I asked for) and avoiding
challenging others on their opinions.
This is proving really useful in answering me. For example I just
came to the realization that in order to run/play GT, I would generally
be required to get GURPs rules on top of the GURPs supplements.
I never really liked GURPs, so GT is probably out. However, they
seem to have the most amount of source material, so now maybe I
can look at getting GURPs supplements and running them with some
other version of Traveller.
The next question- naturally- becomes what would be the most
compatible system to run with and how good is that system. Also,
I think that "best" is a matter of taste, and in starting this thread, I
asked about "best" in reference to several questions that I had about
the various versions.
Later.
Jesse.
vanquer@email.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 11:06:56 -0800
From: "Jesse LaBranche"
Subject: Re: Sworld world names?
> >Maybe when everyone left Middle Earth on the Elven ships, they
> >travelled to the Sword Worlds ;-)
>
> Well, we know that the Elves ended up very close to the Sword
> Worlds.
> --Glenn
Okay, I don't recall anything of the sort in MT and stated the
above as a joke. Please enlighten me on your response Glenn.
Where did they end up? What supplement in which version?
Thanks.
Jesse.
vanquer@email.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:11:43 -0700
From: Jason Postma
Subject: RE: Sworld world names?
He's referring to the Darrians. "Elves in space" is a fairly accurate
description of the Darrians.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jesse LaBranche [mailto:Vanquer@email.msn.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 12:07 PM
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject: Re: Sworld world names?
> >Maybe when everyone left Middle Earth on the Elven ships, they
> >travelled to the Sword Worlds ;-)
>
> Well, we know that the Elves ended up very close to the Sword
> Worlds.
> --Glenn
Okay, I don't recall anything of the sort in MT and stated the
above as a joke. Please enlighten me on your response Glenn.
Where did they end up? What supplement in which version?
Thanks.
Jesse.
vanquer@email.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 14:12:32 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
In a message dated 3/16/00 6:28:20 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:
<< nd how he fares against left-handed red heads.
>>
Hey Penguin Boy! Watch it; I'm a left handed read head....:-)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 11:11:28 -0800
From: "Jesse LaBranche"
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN
> >From: Rupert Boleyn
> >Well, published adventures are not always in keeping with the game's
focus.
> >Compare AD&D's Tomb of Horrors (light on monsters, extremely heavy on
> >thinking) with the general aesthetic of AD&D (heavier on monsters).
> >This is one of the big reasons I tend not to purchase published
adventures.
> D&D is as story involved or as moster bashing as you want to make it. We
as
> player seem to have forgoten that alot of the idea of what the game is and
> how it is played is really up to the ppl that play it and the Gme that
give
> it the look and feel. Tomb of Horrors is one way to play D&D and then
> they're others.
I think that Rupert was talking more on how the rules were written as
opposed to how they could be run. For instance, in D&D and AD&D-1
the only thing you got xp for was killing stuff.
True, there was a sideline xp for gaining gold and magic items.
However, there was nothing written into the rules on how to do this
without killing (unless you were a thief) stuff.
Boiling that down, that meant that the game was written for monster
bashing. Not much else. 2nd edition corrected a huge amount of this
IMO though.
Later.
Jesse.
vanquer@email.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 14:09:08 -0500
From: "Chauncey Smith"
Subject: Re: The sad saga of the T4 starship rules.
- -----Original Message-----
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: The sad saga of the T4 starship rules.
>You don't like having the life support and powerplant slices separated out?
I thought that was an advance over GT's modules. I'd *still* like to see
FFS produced modules, liking it better, but...
>
>Eris
>--
I've got to tell you I've found the TNE produced modules that you'd love to
see but I've found them in the less likely of places. T4 starships has the
modules that looked very TNEish to me. I've done my research on this one and
relized that the USP conversion chart comes from Battle Rider. and they are
TNE weapons and everything else calculated to the point where they are. Also
the computers in FF&SII are compatible with the basic information given in
FF&S it is only expanded to give extra rules.
IF you look back to what I said about proofreading and playtesting of
traveller you'll find that I believe that kinda thing happens alot. But it's
trav gotta love it.
Chauncey Smith AKA drkmage
With out heresay there may never be any change,
With out change there there death....... Dulinor
ITMU: tc tm+ tn++ ?tg tt !to ru ge+ 3i c++ jt- au+ st++ ls pi- ta++ he++
kk hi+ as va ?dr ith+ ?vr ?ne so zh++ vi+ dr++ sy-
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2098
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Traveller-digest Thursday, March 16 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 2099
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Best rules system
Re: Sword world names
RE: Best rules system
Re: Colonial Tech Levels in the Solomani Rim
Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab
Re: and here's what it looks like...-sorry,that's just the same again
Re: Drives (LKW´s thoughts)
Re: Droyne
Re: Famille Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
RE: Jump drive activation inside a gravitational field
RE: Info request re: "Rim" and another cover!
Re: Single malt scotch debates (was Re: Laphroaig)
Re: Traveller with Alternity
Re: Laphroaig
Info request re: "Rim" and another cover
Re: Ancient research
RE: Ancients
Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 11:16:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: Best rules system
Jesse LaBranche writes:
> > Actually, it's true that 'GURPS Traveller' is not a complete edition of
> traveller. To be a complete edition of traveller, rules would have to
> > be part of the GT product, and they aren't -- the basic rules are in a
> > product (GURPS Basic) which is not a part of the GT line. If GURPS Lite
> > had been included in GT you could call it a complete edition of
> > traveller, however.
>
> How difficult would it be to use GT's supplements with other versions
> of Traveller? Which version is it the MOST compatible with?
Most of the books have a lot of material which is compatible with any edition
of traveller. First In and Far Trader are particularly good in that way, in
that they are useful even outside of the Traveller setting.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 20:17:04 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen
Subject: Re: Sword world names
Ken Roney writes:
>A long while back I was running a campaign that took place primarily on the
>Sword World border and I wanted to flesh out the Sword Worlders a little more
>than the sketchy description that they got in the old Journal and support
>material. As i looked at the map, two facts struck me:
>1) The worlds were mostly all named for weapons (sort of goes without
>saying); and
>2) Weapons from historical mythology and fantasy literature seem equally
>prevelant.
Not true. There's four or five Tolkien names out of about 20 (not counting
the worlds that have been taken over by the imperium and may be expected to
have had sword names too).
>As a referee, I felt that I had to decide WHY this was so, but do so in a way
>that didn't violate canon. Here is my rationale. The Sword Worlders
>departed from the vicinity of Terra during the Long Night using a very large
>asteroidal sleeper/generation ship,
According to "Rats&Cats" the Sword Worlders left Terra in -420. They settled
on Gram in -399. That's quite long for a jump journey, but far, far too
short a time for a sub-light journey.
>Somewhere along the line during their epic voyage, their data banks were
>damaged, leaving a miniscule, incomplete, garbled mix of history, religion,
>and literature (only the Tolkien and folklore sections surviving)
There's no reason to assume that. All the 'Tolkien worlds' were settled at
about the same time, whan s dozen of the mythological names had already
been used. My take is that Tolkien had had a revival around that time and
that the worlds in question were named as a result of a fad. Worlds settled
later went back to mythological, legendary, and historical names (IMTU I've
also come up with a couple of names from Vilani campfire tales.).
>After several generations on Gram, the then bickering colonists cobbled
>together what they could of the "heritage" of Earth that remained, and
>then ventured back into space with a pretty warped idea of what Terran
history was.
YMMV, but as far as I'm concerned, if the Grames was able to build jump
ships a mere century after they settled on Gram, then they did not loose
much knowledge in the process.
Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
events based on the individual situation."
_76 Patrons_, p. 8
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:19:06 -0700
From: Jason Postma
Subject: RE: Best rules system
Well, there's the problem when you come into a thread half way, I guess.
You tend to see what's being currently discussed rather than what the
original intent was.
My favorite system is probably MegaTraveller then, because the rules system
is more complex and flexible than the orignal without getting excessive. I
like DGP's style too, and consider their material in general the best
Traveller stuff out there.
That having been said, GURPS Traveller is a close second, and is the system
I plan to use in the future. The products are being produced by people who
obviously care about Traveller, and it includes material I haven't got in
other editions and probably don't have much chance of getting, like the
K'Kree and Zhodani alien modules. Yes the rules have little relationship to
prior Traveller editions, but for the most part I could care less as long as
it works (which it does).
Traveller The New Era had a rather awkward combat system (laser carbines,
for instance, had 0 penetration, so you were invlunerable if you wore a
leather jacket), and had the drawback that it destroyed all prior Traveller
source material except in the Domain of Deneb, as well as changing several
of the physical laws of the universe.
Marc Miller's Traveller was disappointing in the extreme. Overexpensive and
full of errors.
Classic Traveller has a distinct charm to it, but the system's over 20 years
old, and it shows.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jesse LaBranche [mailto:Vanquer@email.msn.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 11:54 AM
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject: Re: Best rules system
Jason Postma wrote:
> My own opinion as to the best rules system? Unimportant. No one really
> cares and I couldn't convince some one who already had a different opinion
> from my own.
With all due respect Jason, your own opinion of what is the best system
was the ONLY part of the whole discussion that is important. I started this
thread asking what people felt was the best because I have not formed an
opinion and wanted to get a "feel" for the different versions.
I couldn't care less whether you consider GT a full version or half
version.
I want to know what you think of it- how good is it in relation to other
Traveller
products, etc.
Later
Jesse.
vanquer@email.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 09:50:22 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Colonial Tech Levels in the Solomani Rim
In mail you write:
> Question for the list:
>
> Does a colony world share the Tech Level of the world that made the
> colony?
Nope. It can have *equipment* of the same TL as the homeworld, but
won't be able to *produce* such equipment, and may even have trouble
*repairing* it. Thus the colony has a *lower* TL than the homeworld.
> I can understand worlds that are already inhabited having a lower TL but
> I would think that a colony would share the homeworlds TL or maybe one
> or two lower. i.e. they know how to make jump 2 drives they just don't
> have the infrastructure in place yet to do so.
TL is based on *ability*, not knowledge.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 11:25:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab
It should be no surprise that I hereby claim Mongo/Jewell for
the purposes of the TML 2000 Landgrab.
HAIL MING!!
- --Glenn M. Goffin, Esq.
Honorary Consul to Terra
of the Government of the Planet Mongo
and its Most Benevolent and Protuberant Ruler
MING THE MERCILESS
(P.S. Yes, I do anticipate doing both a PG-13 and an R (or X)
version of this system.)
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 19:29:57 GMT
From: "Boris Cibic"
Subject: Re: and here's what it looks like...-sorry,that's just the same again
With I lot of people complaining. My advice has always been do something
about it. So I hope either Marc & Loren are listening.
I. General
II: Characters
III: Combat
IV: Vehicles & Starships
V: Worlds
VI: Adventures
I. General
1. A meaty rulebook like Traveller Book, or TNE. I would prefer hardcover
but perhaps two separate releases...one hardcover one soft. In the layout
always begin with a description and try to force as many charts & tables to
the back of a section. Divide the sections with diferent shades along the
side opposite the spine allowing for quick reference. Have a clear intro
page like in all the T4 products allowing you to jump to the most appropiate
section, clear indexes (a la G:T). G:T sidebars are also great! They had
all the bits that you wonder about in the main text. A simplied version of
MT flow charts when dealing with section with lots of detail eg. chargen,
starship/vehicle construction.
2. A non-specific Milieu...I know we are getting M200. I would like to see
a detailed write up of all other possible milieus (what Marc had for the
vote but make each a page in length at the back of the book). Ideally, the
main rulebook ought to provide the logical basis for all milieus (something
CT by being the first SFRPG) I would then buy supplements for the Milieus
which interest me. I would like to as much detail to background as possible
as that is what seeds my imagination, not charts and tables. An integrated
timeline along with corporous amounts amounts of Library Data.
3. A lot of artwork. New and old but insure that art follows text. I was a
big fan of the Chris Foss works that appeared in T4, less impressed by most
of the b&w 8x11(A4) illustrations. I think colour plates add to the value
but gamers will shell it over if they see if the product is well laid out.
We want more JESSIE! (and a few reprints of the great Keith). And if you
can convience him, BLAIR REYNOLDS.
II. Characters
1. A basic approach to chargen, in my opinion, it ought to follow simplifed
advanced chargen (read: High Guard, Mercenary or advanced rules in MT). I
like the approach taken in T4 (although never used it) with useful additions
such life skills. The most important thing to remember unlike the 1970s
(and even then) not everyone, in fact, most will not follow one career path.
As a way of compensation, beef up the Assignment table and allow more
crossing between career catagories. I think Marc has already done this by
creating the career - Citizens. I also liked the open-endness of CT Other
catagory...I don't think this would sell now but perhaps, under Citizens
list some of the "occupations" with a default skill or two.
In a Sidebar, I would include a way for point generation could take
place.
2. Introduce some of the Major and Minor Races by providing a brief
history.
III. Combat
Keep it simple, fast and deadly.
The rules of preference would be a highly modified MT or T4 just because
of the sheer simplicity if for no other reason. Try as much as possible to
have the whole thing blend together so that Wet Navy rules can be used
against Starships, Ground Forces using plasma cannons cannon can take out
Grav Vehicles, you know integrated. Plus, Space Combat which takes vectors
into consideration but does not dwell upon it...maybe High Guard?
1. Scalable - rules for large units and individuals (MT?) - without
dwelling too much on rules for minatures...save it for Striker III.
Emphasize tactics of different armies, navies and how technology will help
or hinder gaining the bigger rock or higher ground...measures and
counter-measures. Defences ang Offences at different TL levels.
III. Vehicles & Starships
1. Built on a solid, consistent, perfect FFS3 [not in core rules].
- -Couldn't agree more. This ought to have everything from webwear to
wormholes. I tend to use the FFS as a benchmark although, I would like see
more more TL15+ designs as well as the wet navy rules from Challenge. Also
the COCAC flyer rules ought to be incorporated in. In addition, a whole
discussion on alternative technologies. We have to think we have 6 major
races and 1100 worlds in each...each are not going to reinvent the wheel but
chances are they are going to have some form of alternative
stardrive...amongst their countless worlds (Yada, yada...I know the recent
cannon ruling). Again I think artwork here plays a role to help some
visualize some designs.
IV. Worlds
I would add-on some highlights from the Keith challenging environment
series...not that I would like to reduce world building to Star Wars-like
cliches ie Ice World, Desert Planet. I like the UPP as is except, under
government types I would include all the Alien forms as well to the
Government type. As well, I would not object to rules for building
ringworlds, rosettes, terraforming. I would also include, excerpts from
Grand Explorations so that one could feel free to venture and create beyond
Charted Space. And keep it simple as it always has been building up to a
supplement such as the World Builders Guide which can highlight different
approaches, colony formation, and lots of interesting things...read: BLACK
HOLES, SUPERNOVAE, FLARE STARS (sorry for shouting but I was disappointed
when G:T did not address). Customs, Culture, Religion could all come in to
play...BITS has done a remarkable job in fleshing out these concepts as did
DGP. In addition, it would be cool for my Scientist PC/NPC to know the state
of astronomical research in the 3I, as what the Scouts did in M0 or MT or
TNE was pretty 20th century. In this supplement one could go into system
generation in a realistic and believable fashion (First In did a great job).
I would also be nice to see more details on First Contact scenarios
amongst the different races.
And please get rid of the reference to Client States (save: where they
are really client states) as this term has been misused when CT was created.
I would rather see the term pocket empires or micro-polities used...I know
this is really nitpicking but TNE and T4 developed really cool rules for
these lesser empires or independent worlds. I would hope that the new
version would accomodate this.
V. Adventures
I do usually buy prepacked adventures. The main rulebook ought to have two
to three adventures. They should be fast paced and adventure filled. For
the ones in the rulebook, I believe the nugget format would be best used so
that first refereees would not get lost...although, my lazy side says keep
the nugget format, forever, although I do like the opennness of the CT Keith
adventures. They ought also to emphasis the brain aspect along with the
brawn. Would be nice if they could introduce some basic concepts like jump
drive and alien species (as part of the ecology rather than rubber suit
aliens) rather a simple dungeon crawl. Interaction with NPCs although not
bureaucrats a la Zilian Wine or Exit Visa.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 18:44:28 +0000
From: Paul Campbell
Subject: Re: Drives (LKW´s thoughts)
On Wed, 15 Mar 2000, Volker Greimann wrote:
>
> Aww, they make the best conspiracy theories.
> Just consider:
> a) The similarities between Sumerian and Vilani:
> A Vilani Scoutcraft crashlanded in that part of the world and
> started one of the
> first large cultres we know of today. Maybe the craft has been
> found sometime
> after 2050.
> b) The Roswell Crash:
> Again, a vilani scout crashed, this time leaving more remains to
> help figure out it´s workings.
> c) The Ancients sites on Venus, Mars (remember the face?), and Pluto:
> Pluto is red-zoned even in Imperial times, and there has to be a
> reason for that
> Maybe someting that was left gave the Terrans the final clue on
> how to proceed to build a working prototype, even if they didn´t have a
> fully developed version they could copy.
> There are so many things which point to or let one assume that Terrans had
> _some_ kind of clue on how to build a star drive, that the "We´ve
> discovered it by mere chance in the asteroid belt!" theory just doesn´t
> satisfy me. The Vilani borders are just to close to Terra. This theory also
> validates and integrates many of the currently existing conspiracy theories
> (Aliens/Ancient Astronauts/etc), so it´s really just a logical consequence. ;-)
> Imagine: The Illuminati are in fact decendants of the crashed Vilani, who
> have tried to master the world since their crash and Sumer has been their
> first empire.
>
> YMMV, but that´s how i like it best ;-)
How about, the Terrans did develop Jump drive independantly. They go out into
the universe, get into a bust up with the Vilani. /Then/ they discover some
ruins all the way out on Pluto, which they use to enhance their existing Jump
Drive to J-3. Initially it is kept quite because the war machine wants
everyone to believe that it is terran's own superiority that is at play.
They then get to hear about the Major-race/Minor-race dichotomy that is
prevelant in the Empire that have just inherited - (by right of assasination :P)
Not wanting to be classed a 'Minor' race by there new subjects they continue to
supress the knowledge about Pluto.
- --
Paul Campbell
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 18:52:20 +0000
From: Paul Campbell
Subject: Re: Droyne
On Thu, 16 Mar 2000, Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
> Peter Newman writes:
>
> >"William F. Hostman" wrote
> >
> >>>>There were only 421 Ancients. Yaskodray and his twenty kids, each of whom
> >>>>had 20 kids of their own.
> >
> >>>"about 20 kids each". 421 is too exact a number.
> >
> >>Either 18 or 24 each would be more realistic, since it states in AM5 that
> >>clutches are in lots of 6.
> >
> >Just because Droyne come in clutches of 6 does not necessarily
> >mean that Ancients came in clutches of 6 - Grandfather was a
> >mutant after all. Moreover we don't know that Grandfather had
> >his children the old fashioned way Grandfather could have
> >introduced some technology into the process.
>
> I've always assumed that he cloned himself, but I just checked "Secrets of
> the Ancients" and it just says that he had (exactly) 20 children and that
> each of them have about 20 each. This must be regarded as an unsolved
> mystery. If he was getting them the oldfashioned way, why 20 instead of
> 18 or 24? If he was cloning, why stop after 20 and let his children have
> the rest; why not just have 400 clones himself and be done with it?
On the subject of conspiracies in other thread: Could this base-20 have
anything to do with the Mayans?
- --
Paul Campbell
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 18:55:36 +0000
From: Paul Campbell
Subject: Re: Famille Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht
On Thu, 16 Mar 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> In mail you write:
>
> > "So they're sporting vessels, are they? How many G's do they pull?" I asked.
> >
> > "Very precisely 16.4 Gs with full tanks and a full crew" he replied, "and
> > once they're running on fumes, a hair over 19 Gs. Of course, what with the
> > G-comps and G-Tanks, the crew will feel _at most_ a subjective 14 G's. But
> > still, we think that that's pretty impressive. They'll pull away from
> > anything out there like it was standing still: fighters, our own
> > Moonshines, some missiles, you name it".
>
> I am speechless. You have gone *way* beyond the limits....
>
> I like it.
>
> And I expect that a lot of folks will consider a J-class as part of a
> "bug-out" kit. If *anything* will get you out of a nasty situation
> alive, this ought to...
Why did I think of 'frying pan - fire' at that?
Certainly sounds like Fun.
- --
Paul Campbell
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 19:08:02 +0000
From: Paul Campbell
Subject: RE: Jump drive activation inside a gravitational field
On Fri, 17 Mar 2000, Antony Farrell wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> > [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Glenn Goffin
> > Sent: Wednesday, 15 March 2000 12:13 PM
> > To: traveller mailing aa list
> > Subject: Jump drive activation inside a gravitational field
> >
> >
> > Paul Campbell wrote:
> > >
> > >By the way, what actually happens when you activate a jump
> > >drive on the surface of a planet? I can't remember reading
> > >anywhere what happens in this case.
> >
> > Ah, we have another frequently-discussed topic for the recently
> > announced de-lurkers. Gentlemen, short opposing position papers
> > on this subject, please!
> >
> Well apart from the great risk of a catastrophic misjump, starport
> authorities tend to be a little upset when everything within a meter of the
> jump field gets caught in the jump. Expect an APB for the apprehension of
> the hsip and crew, if they survive the jump that is. A job for the bounty
> hunters.
> Antony
And does anyone standing too close to the ship get cooked when the lanthanum
grid discharges? Or will they be very briefly exposed to jump space as the
ship (tries to) tumble.
Do we have molten edges where the field cut in. Sliced struts etc.
Must be spectacular to watch - from a distance of course.
- --
Paul Campbell
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 19:04:13 +0000
From: Paul Campbell
Subject: RE: Info request re: "Rim" and another cover!
On Thu, 16 Mar 2000, Trevor, Peter wrote:
>
> From memory (since I'm at work and my employer frowns on me
> having my entire Traveller collection in the office) ...
I can't imagine why.
- --
Paul Campbell
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 19:16:45 +0000
From: Paul Campbell
Subject: Re: Single malt scotch debates (was Re: Laphroaig)
On Thu, 16 Mar 2000, Russell Bornschlegel wrote:
> MJ Dougherty wrote:
> >
> > Heretics! Glen Livet is the finest. All others pale by comparison.
> >
> > Esp Laphroaig, which tastes remarkably like the back of a fireplace....
>
> Actually, Jackson's tasting notes, IIRC, say "hint of diesel fuel."
I'm in luck, even with the recent loss of my own fireplace I still drive my
diesel.
> Which is not a bad thing, IMO. :)
Naw the cars a junk pile really...oh you weren't talking to me, sorry.
> Anyway, anyone who's going to limit themselves to one SMS on the basis
> that it's "the finest" is missing out (again, this is IMO).
>
> Some days you want to feel like you're drinking diesel fuel. Some
> days you want to suck down a little brine, so you reach for the
> Talisker.
>
> Then there's the days when you want people to ask "what in Ghod's
> name is that vile black fluid?" For this reason, and this reason
> only, except for the occasional arcane ritual requiring vile black
> fluid, we keep a bottle of Loch Dhu in the house.
So when the kids raid the drinks cabinet and top up the vodka with water, they
top up your whisky out of your car?
- --
Paul Campbell
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 19:23:45 +0000
From: Paul Campbell
Subject: Re: Traveller with Alternity
On Thu, 16 Mar 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> >> Yes, I turn 30 tomorrow, why do you ask?
> >
> > Ha! You spring chicken you! I turned 30 six weeks ago (didn't feel much
> > different in the morning, either). At least now I have an excuse for
> > feeling old and decrepit.
>
> Old? You? Hah!
>
> I turned 45 last month...
Yup, your offically and 'old geezer'. I don't hit 30 for a few weeks yet.
Maybe I'll learn some manner by then -- nahh.
- --
Paul Campbell
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 19:13:54 +0000
From: Paul Campbell
Subject: Re: Laphroaig
On Thu, 16 Mar 2000, MJ Dougherty wrote:
> Heretics! Glen Livet is the finest. All others pale by comparison.
>
> Esp Laphroaig, which tastes remarkably like the back of a fireplace....
>
> MJD
Damn, and I just had my coal fire bricked up last month!
- --
Paul Campbell
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 11:35:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Info request re: "Rim" and another cover
>From: Jesse DeGraff
>Here's the info I need. Since the cover is going to show
>Earth, and a starport in orbit around it (as well as a LOT of
>in-system traffic), has there ever been any published mention
>and / or illustrations of the main Earth starport?
Invasion: Earth (The Last Battle of the Solomani Rim War)
mentions three starports: AECO, located in North Africa;
Starport Phoenix, located in Arizona/North America; and I've
forgotten the third one. I don't recall any high port in the
game.
Loren, if you're reading this, would you please settle what AECO
stands for? (African European Cooperative Organization?)
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 11:05:14
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Ancient research
At 10:48 AM 3/16/2000 -0700, you wrote:
>You would end up with devices with only a small opening for a microphone
>as the only visible control.
Even better, the house would recognize you and learn to anticipate your
requests.
I come home from work. My apartment recognizes me coming through he door.
It begins downloading my mail, and putting together my custom news. As I
come upstairs, it reads my physical characteristics, am I moving quickly?
Slowly? Am I sweaty?
Based on these criteria, the house sees what kind of music i might want,
and determines if now is a good time to tell me about my phone messages. So
it simply greats me and tells me that my bills have been paid, asks if
"Dick's Picks 5" is acceptable music, and tells me that a pizza has been
ordered.
All of this coming from a little grey box.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"Avoid small projects, they leave no mark on people's memories"
- - Daniel Burnham, San Francisco City Planner, 1907.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 11:13:21
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: RE: Ancients
At 10:38 AM 3/16/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>Hardly. After all,it would boil down to some humanoids
>and Droyne.
And Vargr.
>And the main weak spot is :If that's true,how could it
>be that the connection was made after all,with
>thousands of unprovable theories?
>(well,the answer is of course "canon")
The connection was made in Adv. 12 when the PCs meet Yaskodray.
>It's simply a piece of criminology.Just think what
>results police scientist get by reconstructing events.
John we are talking about a period of time over a hundred times longer than
all of human recorded history.
To make this point, (and no disrespect to the Christians on the list) there
is serious academic debate if the Jesus of Nazareth ever existed. We still
have the languages spoken at the time, many sources, but we still can't
nail down (NPI) his life.
Now, take it out to 300,000 years, you have no remains, most site have been
utterly destroyed. The few items we do have are complete enigmas. Some of
them seem to do nothing. Others do something, but in no way explainable by
physics.
Imagine trying to reconstruct North American culture with the following items:
"Aoxomoxoa" The Grateful Dead, on 8-track.
The July, 1987 Playboy.
Am empty Coke can.
The distributor cap from a 1989 Chevy Corsica
That's the challenge faced by Ancient researchers.
- --
Duugirashir Irebamenagiin gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
Inquisitor Maximus, Reformed Canon Church of Sylea
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 11:34:19
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.
At 10:33 AM 3/16/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>And since the origin of Vargr is clear,the difference
>between servant and master tech should be easy to see.
Really?
Let's look at this:
Vargr are genetically modified from Terran canine stock.
The various human races all came from Terra.
Therefore, Humaniti were the Ancients.
John you are fixated on this concept of servant/master tech.. why? The
lowliest sailor in the US Navy uses technology that the President of
Liberia can't even begin to imagine.
>Which is more than enough for modern science.Only
>crackpot Institutes wouldn't come up with a suitable
>research result concerning such an important question.
>Exept perhaps Bob Jones University.Even the University
>of Copenhagen would get some results(they have
>recently discovered that the Earth isn't flat ,after all)
We had no idea about ancient Egypt until the Rosetta stone was found. None.
Couldn't even read the language, had no ideas about the culture. Then,
sudden;y, we could read their books.
That culture died out very recently. And they were human.
The Ancients left *no* written records that have ever been discovered.
None. No pictures, no home movies that survived the Final War and the
subsequent 300,000 years of natural weathering.
You seem to have an incredible faith in the ability of science to
immediately answer any question. I have a friend who used to be a
paleontologist. She spent *years* at Loch Ness, with millions of dollars of
equipment searching 24 square miles of water for a single creature. What
was the result?
"We can't find it."
She did write a wonderful song or two about the hunt, though..
Now, you are talking about a sphere of space thousands of light years
across, where most of the sites have been reduced to less than rubble. The
Ancients destroyed entire worlds in the Final War. The pieces that we find
are the equivalents of the outskirts, places that weren't important enough
to destroyed completely.
And we don't even know what we are looking for! Is that old impact crater
an Ancient site, or a natural hit. Is that planetoid belt the result of
gravitational influences preventing normal planetary formation, or because
something smashed the planet to flinders?
Assume you find something. What is it? Does it even have an obvious use?
I'm going to describe an artifact. It is a Plexiglass tube, made of two
sections that telescope into each other. The is a rubber gasket on top that
covers a spring loaded switch. There are parts missing from around the
gasket, but they appeared also to be spring-loaded. The tube has some
chemical residue in it.
What have you found? A M-72 Light Anti-Tank Weapon. But if you were a
pre-gunpowder archeologist, you'd have no idea of even the basic function
of this odd tube.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2099
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